# Cost to Prepare & File Tax Returns



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I am curious what the going rate is to prepare and file tax returns. Scenario: husband and wife, no kids, T4's, some T3's &T5's, capital gains/losses. A couple RRSP receipts. No business. No rental properties.

Also assuming a professional and reputal tax professional. Thx


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

About $75 for turbo tax.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

$15 w/ Studio Tax


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

for $15 i‘d do it myself. Give a shot, then go to whoever you would have used instead of Studiotax and see how it compares. For $15, you’ll learn a lot. Actually I don’t even think you need to pay the $15 until you’re ready to submit. So download it, try it....go to a “professional and reputable” professional and compare. You’ll be ready to do it alone next year.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I have been doing our taxes for a few decades, but sometimes you don't know what you don't know. I pay a fair amount of taxes so I would like someone to prepare our taxes and review our scenario.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We had our taxes prepared by a CPA for a number of years. We were paying about 350-700 each year depending on the work. I saw what my father paid to HR Block and was less than impressed with the value for money. Keep in mind that we wrote these expenses off against investment income. 

We also paid professional fees for her to review our past years returns. The fee was 3K but the tax recovery was 10K. We did not know what we did not know. Also, she provided tax avoidance suggestions that we use to this day that saved us a fair bit of tax.

No idea what the current rates are. Our CPA worked from her home.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Our accountant charges a lot. for my parents, it’s $1500 which isn’t too complicated for their rental income, disability, a lot of deductions. Our is $2k for the personal.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Thanks for your comments Ian and Plugging aling. I think it will be money well spent irregardless of the outcome. I do have profit from ownership/shares in a CCPC so maybe I will be able to deduct the fees. I think I will reach out to BDO or similar.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

ian said:


> Also, she provided tax avoidance suggestions that we use to this day that saved us a fair bit of tax.


Would you care to share those tax avoidance suggestions? Perhaps we could learn something new....


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

scorpion_ca said:


> Would you care to share those tax avoidance suggestions? Perhaps we could learn something new....


Primarily spousal loans. Just remembered....business expenses-home office, auto expenses, entertainment expenses not paid by my empoyer.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

Plugging Along said:


> Our accountant charges a lot. for my parents, it’s $1500 which isn’t too complicated for their rental income, disability, a lot of deductions. Our is $2k for the personal.


Wooow. That's ridiculous expensive. These guys are even bigger crooks than bank mutual funds salesmen. Ever thought of learning that stuff and save for an extra trip every year?


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

$20 with turbo tax... 
Side comment: I love tax season! Entering all the numbers in the little boxes, hunting for those tax credits, it gets my juices flowing! Am I weird? I'm the only person I know who loves doing taxes... even if I end up owning a huge chunk each year because of my employment situation :-D


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Thal81 said:


> Wooow. That's ridiculous expensive. These guys are even bigger crooks than bank mutual funds salesmen. Ever thought of learning that stuff and save for an extra trip every year?


I majored in accounting and specialized in taxation many years ago (did not practice went in another area). I was even a volunteer tax filer for 6 years. I can say I know it really well, and my accountant still pays for her fees in savings, not even including the convenience. I call my accountant through out the year to ask tax questions, business questions, estate questions. She is expensive but she is good. An example is, she provided advice the way to maximum the high medical expense deductions against disability benefits along with lower income medical benefits against the sale of investments, withdrawal of retirement income. That was about $4000 net benefit compared to just entering numbers in to a tax software which doesn't take in government benefits. For us, she consulted dividend business income, against regular business income, the deduction of CCA against rentals, child care deductions in an unemployment year to maximize CCB and special EI clawback, about a $12000 net for that year. 

For fun, I fill out the paper t4 from the post office every so often, to make sure I know about the changes. However, I keep our accountant on because overall she has saved us more than we have spent. Also, she will be the one that will file our parents final taxes when they pass. Having not worry about that, is already a relief.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

How would you know if $1500 is excessive if you do not understand the time involved to work up their return(s) ? Even if the grunt work is done by a student.

We always looked at professional fees from the benefit perspective first. Then compared to cost and to the market. We engaged a tax CPA for many years for this very reason.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I won’t comment either way on the cost, other than to observe that some CMFs lament the costs of advisors and MERs, yet have no problem with paying accountants. They’re all professionals to some degree. And many will claim they can do “most“ things cheaper and better than the pros.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

If you're going to pay a fee for professional service and expect them only to find a tax savings, it'd better be more than the cost of the service itself. I would expect people who hire accountants to do their taxes is because their own tax situation is too complicated to be done by themselves.

If tax savings are from things that only KPMG can find, I'd say, no thanks.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I think all Canadians should strive to understand Canadian taxation. At least the basics. That being tax brackets and the difference between a tax credit and tax deduction etc. The rest is not all that difficult either.

The reason I believe this, is because I have seen many times, where a friend asks me about an employment opportunity. They will make "x" amount of dollars. They will be considered self employed and there will be a requirement for some expenses. Some paid by the employer and others not. There is also CPP and EI issues involved.

When that person is done explaining the details, I usually don't even need a calculator to explain to them how much better it is then the current job they have. What I find remarkable is that this person has no real idea how the financials break on this opportunity.

Let's face it. CRA is your business partner, my partner and every other Canadian's partner. If you set up a business with a partner would you not want to know all the specifics of the partnership agreement. If you are wealthy enough, perhaps you can hire an accountant or lawyer to explain all these things, but for most of us, we may not have those expensive options and even for those who do, they can never really know what your obligation to the partnership should be worth.

Anyway. Learning Canadian taxation has saved me so much in taxes, it was well worth the effort...and I had no internet to help me. No forums to ask questions. I just believe that everyone should learn how the government goes about taking your money. Learning it by age 25 is a lot more valuable then learning it all at age 65, so my opinion is probably better suited to most people's kids. That said, it is never too late.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I am one those here that pays for an accountant. I also pay for an financial advisor. Ironically, I consider myself slightly above average in knowledge to most regular people (not the people at CMF as I consider the folks here above average, so I feel I am average here). What I know is I can do at least 80 of what these advisors do, but it's the 20% I am willing to pay for. I don't consider my taxes overly complicated, but there are nuisances that i sometimes miss. When my kids are old enough to have their first job, like me, they will go to the post office, and I will make them manually fill out their taxes for the first few years. They will use a cheap software to double check and submit. 

I pay for an advisor because in the beginning, I was learning alot, and then later I learned that I was really lousy at my own research, would procrastinate, am an undisciplined investor. I tend to over analyse things and not invest or wait too long, or I am impulsive and jump in without thinking. Now, I have my advisor make recommendations which are well researched, I understand enough to see if they are bs'ing me and can still make a decision without over thinking. I call up my advisor if I am going to make a rash decision (because it is just my personality) to get the information first, and then make better investments even on the portion that I don't have with the advisor. My spouse has absolutely no interest in this and so I know he is taken care of if something happens to me. My kids get to call our advisor and he will give them advice too, even on the portions they are learning to invest themselves.

I am professional, and people pay me for my knowledge and services. I don't mind doing the same. I pay for an accountant, financial advisor, laywer (wills, poa, pd, and other things), mechanic, even though I could do some most of the things on my own. Just as people can do my work on their own, they are usually much better off having me consult. The problem is knowing enough to know when someone knows more than you or is better at something than you that it's worth paying for. On a side note, I also pay someone to clean for me for the same reasons.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Some interesting comments on this thread. I have done my own taxes for a few decades and would rate my knowledge above average. For me, at this point, I am willing to spend some money to have a professional review our situation. As a few others have mentioned, this is also an opportunity to involve someone that my wife, or executor for that matter, could look to for assistance in the event that something happens to me. It may also make a difference if you are paying 20k or 200k a year in taxes.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

As well, I want to stress that there is a huge difference in the knowledge of simply understanding how to input numbers into tax software, in order to complete a tax return, and the knowledge of the overall tax system itself.

By doing your own taxes you cannot help but begin to figure out how some of it works. Will completing tax returns give you the total education you require. No. It cannot do that. As well, as most of us know, it is your tax strategy that begins on January 1 of the year ahead that determines how much tax you will pay. Your knowledge of the tax system on April 30th of the next year, has very limited usefulness for the previous tax year.

My education started with a T1 general form and a paper tax guide, when I was about 21. I could see the deduction for tax on my paycheque but I just needed to understand how and why each dollar was taken. So I read every line of the tax form and general guide. I agree, It was not overly entertaining. Eventually I graduated towards the other more specific guides. After beating to death anything that might relate to my situation, I started learning about others. Corporate taxes. Trusts. Estate planning. I suppose I must have found it interesting to some degree, but in the end, it was one of the most valuable educations I received, other then what gave me direct incomes. Today, that education process would be so much easier and quicker but I agree, no more exciting or interesting. Just lucrative.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

I am a 79 year old retired CPA. Until 1978, I was a partner in a public accounting firm with a good knowledge of income tax matters having taken in-depth tax courses etc. My clientele was primarily owner operated businesses and professionals. I then switched careers and became an executive in a publicly traded corporate world. My advice is that using a professIonal accountant to prepare or review your tax filings and tax planning is money well spent. i know of too many instances where folks without accounting training screwed up their filings and financial affairs - just to save a few dollars.
Although I left public accounting many years ago, I continued to attend professional courses on income tax with the result that I have always prepared my own tax returns until this year when I will be using a CPA. Two reasons - at my age, it is important that a professional accountant has a basic understanding of my investments and tax matters. In addition, I am required to file a US tax return for 2020 due to a sale of property in US.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

There is a happy medium between engaging large, national CPA firm and using an HR Block type of service. If you need tax advice why not get real value for your money and deal with a professional vs some part time person in a Walmart booth or a vacant storefront who does little else but fill out the computer screens and whose tax knowledge is limited at best. When it comes to services of any kind we have always shopped for value, not cost.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

The Big 4 national accounting firms are necessary for large public companies but I recommend smaller national accounting firms or large local firms.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

A quick update on my experience. We used BDO to prepare and file our taxes. I had to upload all of our documents to their portal. It was easy to do, but took just as long as doing our taxes myself.

They did an okay job preparing our taxes, but offered no other value. I asked them to review our situation and to offer advice/suggestions on how we might reduce the taxes we pay. I received no advice or recommendations. I should also add that I never expected the advice for free or questioned their fees for the advice. (Taxes paid were over $250k and let them know the next couple of years would be more)

I would have been have been satisfied if they came back and said sorry, there is nothing more that can be done. I didn't even get that. Overall, it was a disappointing experience.


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