# and the gas (electricity) plant contraversy continues....



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ok, so Wynne has taken over the reins of the Ontario Fiberals, which hid 500 pages of documentation on the gas plant fiasco. Now suddenly, those
pages that were "lost" have appeared again. 
So now what we need is a "new committee to study the matter"....more $$$ down the drain
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/committee-struck-look-gas-plants-controversy-wynne-221851503--finance.html

Instead of yet another committee, what is needed now is a public inquiry to find out *who cost Ontario over $320 million so far and nothing to show for it.*
I'm sure that by the time those generating stations get moved to Napanee,(Lennox generating station) it will cost us well over 1 Billion.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Some estimates are already at $1B. Final total could very well be higher, but we will never know.

It's fine, Citizens of Ontario - just keep voting for McGuinty and his cronies time after time.
Deficit is only $15B, and debt is only $240B - there is lots and lots of money to burn.
Keep voting McG & Co.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

This is what happens when governments change their plans to satisfy public outrage!

Seriously, though, it probably would have been easier to make closing the coal plants contingent on building gas plants on the same sites. It is more economical to build the gas plants close to the point of demand, but people are stoopid and irrational when it comes to gas power plants. They are very clean. That we worry about gas power plants as we're surrounded by thousands of heavy trucks belching black carbon and fine particulates that have been proven to significantly elevate risk of heart attacks and asthma is beyond me.

We get the governance we deserve.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> *HaroldCrump*;Some estimates are already at $1B. Final total could very well be higher, but we will never know.
> 
> It's fine, Citizens of Ontario - just keep voting for McGuinty and his cronies time after time.
> *Deficit is only $15B, and debt is only $240B - there is lots and lots of money to burn.
> Keep voting McG & Co.*


 ... but then how do you pick (vote) amongst the 3 evils? :frown:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... but then how do you pick (vote) amongst the 3 evils? :frown:


Hmm..it's going to be a tough choice in the next provincial election.

Fiberals..their track record has not been good in the last (well it will be 8 years then)...waste, waste waste
NDP and Ms Howath....spend, spend, spend, but at least she is interested in the "little people" and not big business politics
PC and Mr. Hudak...not time to read for making any proper decisions..we'll just vote against whatever the other side proposes.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...budget-even-though-he-hasnt-actually-read-it/

I think it will be just a prolonged stalemate for the next 2 years, with all due respect to the new Premier, but the 3 sides are too far apart to ever agree to anything and the Fiberal minority gov't budget will probably fail on the vote. At least the Fiberals will not being able to ram decisions down the taxpayer's throats like Mr, McG..... but basically it's still going to be the "same old-same old".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

So I'm better off doing a crap-shoot with dice or go with eenie-meeni-minie-moe at voting time ... :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> So I'm better off doing a crap-shoot with dice or go with eenie-meeni-minie-moe at voting time ... :biggrin:


ok if you decide on dice..just as good as any decision element, since it's basically 99% chance..and 1% sleight of hand

ODDS?

2:1 Fiberals will get back in with a minority (more squabbling, rhetoric, and nothing constructive gets done)
10:1 PC will get in and continue screwing up the provincial treasury, and add to the deficit burden.
20:1 NDP will get in and request for a coalition, so something can get done at Queens Park.

100:1 a taxpayers revolt and protest march on Queens Park demanding the resignation of all 3 party leaders and appointing Rob Ford as chief cook and bottle washer for us.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

What politicians are capable of doing for political gain, and key reason for this entire mess in the first place, has no end/shame. 

And McGuinty thought we were going to believe his last lie, that he quit because it had been time for a new set of Liberal ideas. What a strategic liar, or should I say li*E*r in his case. :rolleyes2:

I wonder what else we'll learn from 'Project Banana' & 'Project Fruit Salad'.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I will never understand how people get upset that politicians/leaders lie. Every single one of them does. Including the guys you vote for (assuming they ever gain power and get an opportunity to tell lies of consequence).


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I suppose you never get upset at politicians. :rolleyes2:

Yes, they all lie.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

andrewf said:


> I will never understand how people get upset that politicians/leaders lie. Every single one of them does. Including the guys you vote for (assuming they ever gain power and get an opportunity to tell lies of consequence).


But by that logic, you should never vote - ever. At any level (municipal, provincial, and federal).

I do vote at all levels.
For the party or candidate expected to do the _least_ damage and the one aligned closest to my own set of beliefs.
I guess I am picking the least of all evils (from my perspective).

But in this case, my conscience is clear - I did not vote for McGuinty and his cronies even once.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I expect them all to lie. That's what voters want (to have sweet nothings whispered in their ear).

I vote based on what I pragmatically expect each party to do. People who think that party X and dirty rotten scoundrels and party Y are paragons of virtue who want do most of the same things we hate party X for--these people are naive and will inevitably be disappointed.

Harold: You voted for Ernie Eves with a clean conscience, despite the sleaze, mismanagement and lies of the previous government?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Fair enough that you expect all politicians to lie but were your expectations met and are you happy with those results based on the party that you voted for? As a Canadian, Ontarian, and Torontonian (presumably).


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> ok if you decide on dice..just as good as any decision element, since it's basically 99% chance..and 1% sleight of hand
> 
> ODDS?
> 
> ...


... I like the odds on the last one .. and would most definitely consider hiring Robby as chief cook and bottle washer for us. :encouragement: :biggrin:


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

On balance, I don't think the Liberals have done a bad job. A lot of the fiscal trouble Ontario is in right now is due to weak global demand, not special to Ontario. Alberta will run a $4 billion deficit this year, which is proportionately larger than Ontario.

They have had some big misses (feed in tariff is the biggest, eHealth mismanagement, buying labour peace in an unsustainable fashion), but also some good fixes. They made significant improvements in education. Ontario now ranks very highly in PISA studies. Considering where we were under the previous government, this is significant progress. They made huge strides in improving the tax competitiveness of the province by introducing the HST, cutting capital taxes and cutting corporate tax rates. They created the greenbelt and brought in more rational land use planning for the GTA. They made progress in improving the regional coordination of transportation planning in the GTA.

On balance, I think they've done a decent job. Another party might be better to deal with some issues they have not addressed (putting public sector unions back in their place) or cutting some pet programs. When I hear that party talking sensibly and not coasting on gimmicks and hoping to win by default, then I will consider them. I think Wynne has at least made some decent noises, but I'll have to see what she does.

I hear the same people railing about the Ontario Liberals, yet the same people don't complain about the F35 procurement, which is a disaster of government deceit and ineptitude at least an order of magnitude larger than anything the Ontario Liberals have done. It makes me think that these people are merely partisan (rah rah team blue), and not pragmatic or balanced in their assessments of the record of each government.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Harold: You voted for Ernie Eves with a clean conscience


I didn't vote for him - fortunately, I was abroad during those years.
So yes, my conscience is squeaky clean.

I wonder how those that voted for McGuinty not once, not twice, but three times in a row feel right now.

As for the Harris/Eaves administration, the sleaze and mismanagement was a wonderful legacy from the Bob Rae years.
It is scary that the same Bob Rae could turn out to be the Federal opposition leader and by some misfortune one day (gulp) Prime Minister.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

What?!? Harris/Eves not responsible for any of the sleaze or mismanagement from their 8 years in office? It's all to be blamed on Rae's 5 years?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Finally...

*Dalton McGuinty's ex-chief of staff, deputy charged in gas plant scandal*


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

But the OPP was also quick to point out that ex Premier McGuinty was absolutely, totally and beyond any shadow of doubt above reproach.
It seems McG has devoted an entire section in his new "book" to painstakingly explaining the email deletion issue, and woven a string of excuses to plead his innocence.


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