# Thoughts on e-bikes?



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Anyone have an e-bike ... what type and your thoughts on how it is?

I've been riding a rigid mtn bike for over 20 years now (same one btw) and thinking of upgrading. Mainly do pavement, gravel and light trails and was thinking of upgrading to a hardtail and to a lesser degree, a full suspension bike/e-bike.

Thinking ahead, investment wise, hardtail prices aren't too bad but full suspension & mtn e-bikes still seem rather expensive. I know some of the expense is pandemic related (shortages,etc) so I think the overall market prices will come down in the next year or so ... might be good to wait for that.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

cainvest said:


> Anyone have an e-bike ... what type and your thoughts on how it is?
> 
> I've been riding a rigid mtn bike for over 20 years now (same one btw) and thinking of upgrading. Mainly do pavement, gravel and light trails and was thinking of upgrading to a hardtail and to a lesser degree, a full suspension bike/e-bike.
> 
> Thinking ahead, investment wise, hardtail prices aren't too bad but full suspension & mtn e-bikes still seem rather expensive. I know some of the expense is pandemic related (shortages,etc) so I think the overall market prices will come down in the next year or so ... might be good to wait for that.


Are they even available? I though supply for bikes have been fairly limited due to logistics and high demand.

I know a colleague. who has one and uses it on a daily commute of around an hour or so. If you are just keeping to street-type surfaces, I don't imagine it would be an issue. Winter and snow may factor in, but that depends on your weather.


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

My friend recently bought his daughter (~ 40) a Gazelle. Out the door it was 4000 +. She did meal deliveries on her peddle bike in Vancouver and is very happy with the new Gazalle.


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## Flugzeug (Aug 15, 2018)

A guy I know who is carrying some extra weight in the mid section was riding his eBike uphill and he heard some people say - “holy look, that fat guy is in really good shape”.

They seem like a nice ride, I’ve never used one myself though.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

The problem with ebikes are they are really heavy with poor quality parts compared to actual bikes. They are not something that makes sense to ever pedal without battery power.
My Santa Cruz cross country ride weighs 23 lbs....off road ebikes most likely starting at 60 lbs. 
I'd just buy a old Honda Trail 90 instead.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I don't get e-bikes, and they're especially annoying as they allow them on all the city paths. They travel at outrageous speeds on the city paths and put people who walk, along with regular bicyclists at great risk.

If you want exercise, get a bicycle. 

If you want to get to work year round and do it inexpensively while saving the planet, take the bus.

E-bikes - WTF?

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There are quite a few e-bikes in the Okanagan and part of that may be a function of topography. E-bikes permit more people to enjoy bikes in their neighbourhoods and bike paths than would do otherwise. I have rented one and enjoyed it for longer distances, using the different power assist settings depending on topography. They are indeed heavy bikes and one is not likely to use zero power assist on anything but flat ground. I think they have a niche place in the market with the major downside being as LTR mentioned. Many folk travel too fast on them, lose control and end up in ER.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Many folk travel too fast on them, lose control and end up in ER.


From my extensive observation over the years while riding my bicycle (about 3500km/yr) I would say that they shouldn't be allowed on city paths because they're far too fast, and they shouldn't be allowed on city streets because they're far too slow, so there's simply no situation where they can comfortably exist and not be dangerous.

ltr


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Don't know what the accidental or death rates are involving e-bikes. But ownership/ridership can be reduced by simplying introducing requirements for licensing and insurance on e-bikes.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Matters on your use, I've heard some people like the extra range/power from an ebike/mountain bike type cross.

The ebikes that are really scooters for those who shouldn't be operating a car are a different problem.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> From my extensive observation over the years while riding my bicycle (about 3500km/yr) I would say that they shouldn't be allowed on city paths because they're far too fast, and they shouldn't be allowed on city streets because they're far too slow, so there's simply no situation where they can comfortably exist and not be dangerous.
> 
> ltr


Don't bike paths have speed limits? I'm not kidding, maybe about 20 km/hr or so? I recall bylaw officers were actually ticketing bikers in certain cities.

As for city streets, I've biked on those in downtown and as long as you pay attention it's not an issue.

Edit: As for e-bikes themselves, I think most may just use them for the extra boost to go up hills. I know I could use that at times.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

I borrowed one from a friend who didn't need it for the summer. It is great fun because suddenly going uphill doesn't suck anymore and you can go much farther without being daunted by the ride back.
E-bikes have adjustable amount of "assist". At low levels, it just makes hills easy to climb, and you go a tad faster on flat surface. If you crank up the juice, yes it can go too fast for comfort. Like anything else, use your good judgement.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Eder said:


> My Santa Cruz cross country ride weighs 23 lbs ..


Which Santa Cruz model do you have and how do you like it?


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

We ride our bikes for exercise, so ebikes have no appeal. Some friends have them - mainly so they can keep up with the rest of their biking group. If we want to go further afield, we put our bikes on the car rack and drive to new locations.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Which Santa Cruz model do you have and how do you like it?


Currently I'm riding a 5010 ...I broke the frame on my Blur so Santa Cruz gifted the new frame. Other than Yeti I don't think I could be happy with anything else.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

A friend has a Surly Big Easy. It's a longtail electric cargo bike. She sold her car and uses it everywhere around the city for work and personal use. Sometimes it is referred to as the 18-wheeler of bikes. It is an e-assist or pedal assist bike so it does not provide any assist unless the rider is pedaling. No throttle, just 4 levels of assist. She loves it and says there are no headwinds on e-bikes. 

E-bikes have their uses. People with long commutes especially in hilly areas. Seniors or infirm people that otherwise would not be able to ride or keep up with their friends. They are heavy and expensive. Even a high-end Trek Domane weighs almost 40 lb. about twice what a comparable regular road bike weighs.

Canadian cyclist, ex-racer and bicycle frame builder Giuseppe Marinoni recently set a new world hour record of 39 km/h at age 80. I have a ways to go to even get close to that!

For me at age 63 I would still rather ride a regular bike, cursing the hills and headwinds and gasping for breath, for the fun of it. Maybe in a decade I will feel differently.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

like_to_retire said:


> I don't get e-bikes, and they're especially annoying as they allow them on all the city paths. They travel at outrageous speeds on the city paths and put people who walk, along with regular bicyclists at great risk.
> 
> If you want exercise, get a bicycle.
> 
> ...


Maybe not in Canada, due to nature of the path, but when I hiked in mountains in Europe last summer, e-bikes were very popular.
Basically they allowed 45+ not in shape people to ride mountain trails. They can get some exercise, but also due to lack of physical shape they aren't stopped from exploring the area.
Personally I think it is brilliant, although due to weight, price, and good physical shape I am not considering getting one


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

At 72 with a health condition, an e-bike is clearly my best opportunity to ride on anything beyond a flat surface. It is a bit condescending in some of the posts above denigrating the value of e-bikes. Certainly some folk are not using them with enough consideration for others, but for most users, they provide enjoyment that they could no longer get otherwise.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> At 72 with a health condition, an e-bike is clearly my best opportunity to ride on anything beyond a flat surface. It is a bit condescending in some of the posts above denigrating the value of e-bikes. Certainly some folk are not using them with enough consideration for others, but for most users, they provide enjoyment that they could no longer get otherwise.


I wouldn't read to much into it AR, many don't have any idea yet of the varied uses of e-bikes. Whether it's used to increase time spent enjoying the outdoors or used for a major workout, any reason is a good one if you like it. My enduro rides (motorized) give me a far better workout then my pedal bike does, some never believe it until they try and drop 30 mins into the ride. 

In any case, I think I'll hold off until the e-bikes mature a bit (and costs come down) because there is too much crossover with my enduro riding. I'll still be looking for a deal on a hardtail or full suspension upgrade somewhat soon.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

A few years back they were a daily site in our city of Kingston but lately none to be seen.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> There are quite a few e-bikes in the Okanagan and part of that may be a function of topography. E-bikes permit more people to enjoy bikes in their neighbourhoods and bike paths than would do otherwise. I have rented one and enjoyed it for longer distances, using the different power assist settings depending on topography. They are indeed heavy bikes and one is not likely to use zero power assist on anything but flat ground. I think they have a niche place in the market with the major downside being as LTR mentioned. *Many folk travel too fast on them, lose control and end up in ER.*





like_to_retire said:


> From my extensive observation over the years while riding my bicycle (about 3500km/yr) I would say that they shouldn't be allowed on city paths because they're far too fast, and *they shouldn't be allowed on city streets because they're far too slow, so there's simply no situation where they can comfortably exist and not be dangerous.*
> 
> ltr





Beaver101 said:


> Don't know what the accidental or death rates are involving e-bikes. But ownership/ridership can be reduced by simplying introducing requirements for licensing and insurance on e-bikes.


 ... the "city" of Toronto is "full" of e-bikes where the riders "weave" onto side-walks, parked any/everywhere that fits because its riders are trying to make as "many" and "as fast as possible" Uber/DoorDash/SkiptheDishes/Foods-deliveries.

I forgot to mention I was almost runned over by one on "the side-walk", never mind about the numerous times cut-off the lights' intersection. The back of these bikes usually have a big storage unit or a gigantic tote carried by the rider (which I presumed is for foods). 

I won't mention also that the rider had no helmet on, much like plenty of other non-ebikers but then if they want to fight with other motorists on the street, I can't stop them. Just don't kill/maim the pedestrians with legs (ie. not on scooters either) on the side-walks.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The problem is that of proper etiquette and courtesy, not the e-bike itself. Perhaps there should be some kind of licensing system whereby folks have to take a one day course to get an 'e-bike' card with the penalty for breaking rules being confiscation of the e-bike for a period of time. We will see more and more of these over time just like Vespas in Asia and regular bikes in The Netherlands. A set of proper rules would be much better. 

E-bikes certainly have not been a problem in the Okanagan best I can tell from my experience of being both a pedestrian and a motorist. Most of them are used on bike paths and trails to begin with the best I can tell, though I do see some street use and multii-use bike/walking path use. I won't be getting one any time soon. I will rent when I want to do more extended rides.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> The problem is that of proper etiquette and courtesy, not the e-bike itself. Perhaps there should be some kind of licensing system whereby folks have to take a one day course to get an 'e-bike' card with the penalty for breaking rules being confiscation of the e-bike for a period of time. We will see more and more of these over time just like Vespas in Asia and regular bikes in The Netherlands. A set of proper rules would be much better.
> 
> E-bikes certainly have not been a problem in the Okanagan best I can tell from my experience of being both a pedestrian and a motorist. Most of them are used on bike paths and trails to begin with the best I can tell, though I do see some street use and multii-use bike/walking path use. I won't be getting one any time soon. I will rent when I want to do more extended rides.


From what I can tell bicycle riders from the Netherlands think they have right of way and traffic laws don't apply to them.

pretty much the same problem as the bad ebikers.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> A set of proper rules would be much better.


From what I read, ebikes are limited to 32 km/h here (25 km/h in EU) so that's a good start. I see very few ebikes here in MB so can't comment on them being bad.



MrMatt said:


> From what I can tell bicycle riders from the Netherlands think they have right of way and traffic laws don't apply to them.
> 
> pretty much the same problem as the bad ebikers.


Pretty much the same everywhere, pedal or ebike. Some break the rules, some show little road manners or none at all.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Dutch bike riders do have the ROW on designated bike lanes of which there are many. I spent inordinate amounts of time (about 1 week/month) on project work in Amsterdam and Den Haag over about 3.5 years back before my retirement. It mostly works as it should in the pecking order. We need the same sort of interaction to start occurring here.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am looking at different mobility options preferrably that don't involve licensing or insurance.

Regardless of what I choose, I won't be riding it on the roads.

It is just too dangerous to be on roads where everyone has to pass you by.....cars, SUVs, buses, trucks......no thanks.

I will ride it on the sidewalk and worse case scenario pay the bylaw fine, if I get caught.


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## DenisD (Apr 19, 2009)

I wonder if private e-bikes will eventually have the same limitations as shared scooters. In Calgary, scooters are software limited based on GPS reading to a lower top speed in busy areas.


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

DenisD said:


> I wonder if private e-bikes will eventually have the same limitations as shared scooters. In Calgary, scooters are software limited based on GPS reading to a lower top speed in busy areas.


Shared scooters are presumably tracked by GPS so the owner doesn't have them stolen.

Requiring private owners of e-bikes to share GPS information would likely be a non-starter for privacy reasons.


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## DenisD (Apr 19, 2009)

Why would they have to share GPS info?


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

DenisD said:


> I wonder if private e-bikes will eventually have the same limitations as shared scooters. In Calgary, scooters are software limited based on GPS reading to a lower top speed in busy areas.





DenisD said:


> Why would they have to share GPS info?


Perhaps I don't understand how this would work. How would you limit speed in busy areas without a GPS connection?

And if the answer is that only the software on the bike knows the GPS location, how do you convince owners that the bike GPS data isn't shareable via the satellite connection?


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## DenisD (Apr 19, 2009)

fireseeker said:


> how do you convince owners that the bike GPS data isn't shareable via the satellite connection?


I'm sure some would never be convinced.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

sags said:


> Regardless of what I choose, I won't be riding it on the roads.
> 
> It is just too dangerous to be on roads where everyone has to pass you by.....cars, SUVs, buses, trucks......no thanks.
> 
> I will ride it on the sidewalk and worse case scenario pay the bylaw fine, if I get caught.


Drivers often do not notice cyclists on sidewalks, and do not expect them to be travelling as fast as cyclists do. Consider every driveway as an intersection. Drivers backing out of a driveway don't expect anyone to be moving as fast as a bike. It's much easier to see a slow moving pedestrian and stop for them than to stop in time for a bike on the sidewalk. Drivers turning right or left also often cut off cyclists riding on crosswalks, because they do not perceive their speed. Drivers expect pedestrian speed on sidewalks and crosswalks, not typical bicycle speeds.

The municipality I live in has published statistics that say 68% of bicycle collisions occur when cyclists are riding on sidewalks.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> I am looking at different mobility options preferrably that don't involve licensing or insurance.
> 
> Regardless of what I choose, I won't be riding it on the roads.
> 
> ...


 ... then it's a scooter (with limited speed too) for you. E-bikes are supposedly to be ridden on the road/street in the suburbs just as there're "bike"-lanes in metro/downtown for that purpose.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I guess it's all in the timing, saw two ebikes on the bike path on my ride this afternoon. Seems to be a hit with those that commute to and from work based on their backpacks and clothes worn.

I also noticed Costco sells some moderately priced (~$1700) mtn ebikes, just not sure how good they are. Also talked to my friend who owns a bike shop .... ya, not getting a new bike anytime soon due to the shortage.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Good part about Costco is if they suck (most likely at that price) you can return them. For a decent eBike with reasonable components expect to pay 6-7k.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Avid cyclist for many years - road and mountain bikes. I've been highly considering a DIY e-bike kit. I still enjoy riding but I'm very busy with other active stuff and can't afford to be exhausted after doing a 40-60km ride. An e-bike will help spare some energy while still allowing me to explore new routes.

No real issues in my region. It is becoming increasingly more popular.


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