# Rating the Online Brokerages



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Here is the latest ratings of online brokerages from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-no-1-in-globes-annual-survey/article2233815/

Any thoughts?


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## Assetologist (Apr 19, 2009)

Interface, fees, ease of tracking investments and placing trades are a priority for me but I stay with CIBC Investor's Edge.
The one thing that will make me change in the next few months in the lack of USD RRSP.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I hope Qtrade buys TDW


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

My perfect brokerage has a combination of the best features. I'd love Waterhouse or RBC Direct Investing to switch to $5 trades for all net worth individuals, have cheaper option trading, dirt cheap FX spreads, free ETF trading, and of course in Waterhouse's case the painfully overdue USD RRSP option.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

I use Questrade and have no issues with it. Although, I don't know how the other ones work. Really, it does what I want, which is allow me to buy stocks at a reasonable price


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Have you noticed how Qtrade always wins, but it seems like hardly anyone on this forum uses Qtrade? If they are so good, why don't more people use them.

Once again this year, no rating/review for the Canadian version of Interactive Brokers.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I almost signed up for Qtrade, but to be perfectly honest the relative obscurity turned me off. I don't know anyone that uses it...


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

The only time I ever hear about Qtrade is in those annual rankings. They must be in cahoots with the Globe & Mail. They don't appear to offer anything special to warrant switching from a convenient big bank brokerage or a low cost brokerage.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Argonaut said:


> They must be in cahoots with the Globe & Mail.


That's exactly what I was thinking.


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## Abha (Jun 26, 2011)

Qtrade has an awesome platform for active traders. They really are the innovators in the crowd and their competition used to be Etrade before Scotia scooped them up.

Nowadays I think they compete with Interactive Brokers for the active trading crowd but it is a niche company.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Do you mean questrade?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it does look like there's some cahootin going on. That ranking is inane. Who made it up, gog the gorilla ? some 5-year-old throwing his finger paints around ? virtual brokers near the top of the list ? the annual schmoozefest with bmo still going on ? c'mon who's kidding who.

one has to wonder if that reporter actually does trade online. Really. Ever.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

G&M sucks


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

ddkay said:


> I hope Qtrade buys TDW


It would be the other way around...


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I've been a TD customer ever since I reached up to the counter to get my first account passbook as a 7 year old... I'm sure there are better brokerages than TDW, but I will likely stay with TD until they bury me in the ground.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

I like TDWH.

Beat the crap out of Disnat !

IB is #1 for day trader


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

TradeStation is good too, $0.0006/share for stocks and ETFs, $1.00/contract for options and $0.25/contract for futures


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## stephenheath (Apr 3, 2009)

I've been using Qtrade since I started, their customer service is fantastic and the platform does everything I need quite well. However, I think the ratings which make them #1 are not the exact same criteria people on this board would necessarily need... especially the daytraders I'm sure cost is one of the biggest needs for them, which I don't think Qtrade is #1 on.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

The only thing that matters is which other brokerages besides MF Global are commingling funds?


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm very happy with TD Waterhouse. USD RRSPs would be nice but TDW already allows wash trading to get around currency conversions. Avoiding currency conversions on dividends is a nice-to-have feature for me. Commission-free ETFs don't have all that much appeal to me because the ETFs I like to hold are often not included in these lists anyway.

Of course, if another brokerage offered a juicy enough bribe to switch, I would. Otherwise, I can't think of a reason why I would want to leave TDW.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

QTrade actually looks pretty good to me. I can't seem to remember why I weeded them off my short list when I moved from Investorline to Questrade/IB. I have a feeling there were some of those devils in the details? Why aren't they more popular?

For something as objective as comparing costs, I can't see how they scored QTrade equal to Questrade. Questrade charges half for typical orders, QTrade charges extra $4 for limit orders, they both charge ECN, QTrade only wins slightly in exchange rate... 

For some reason, USD RRSPs was not a factor in the cost, yet the artical even points out how exchange costs more than brokerage fees even on a small $2000 trade. They compare $4.95 to $9.99, but not $0 vs $80

I wouldn't weight those Tools so high. I mean, you can find all of those stock screeners and pie charts elsewhere for free or a small fee certainly less than those brokerage costs. I would just weight them lower.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i believe IB charges per share for share purchases, so a single commission can run up to the $30-40 range if client is trading several thousand shares.

as far as i know IB has no cap on share commish, unlike questrade which i believe caps commission for a share purchase or sell at about 9.95.

at the end of the day, there will never be a one-size-fits-all online brokerage. The globe's survey has always been on the cuckoo side. But this year it's gone over the top. It's a grave & serious disservice to all DIY investors, i feel.

doesn't Four Pillars have a good, reliable online broker survey ? As i recall, it's a solid piece of work based on facts, not highly subjective ratings like the globe's.

(few minutes later) here's the link to FP's Moneysmarts discount broker survey. A quick glance & this looks to me like the real thing. It's been recently updated & it even includes reviews & comments. As all can see, it is exhaustively complete, including IB & others.

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/canadian-online-discount-stock-brokerage-comparison/

investors wishing to obtain highly specialized indeed customized information often exchange views & tips here in this forum. There's a valuable discussion of IB going on right now, for example, under the options thread.

so let's toss the globe's pie-in-the-sky rating.


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## anthony2532 (Jul 21, 2011)

I've been with Investorline for years and overall I'm happy with them and it would be a pain to switch brokers.

There are a few things that I'm unhappy with.

1. I wish they would offer trades for less than 9.95 in certain circumstances.
2. They don't offer DRIPs on US stocks or ETFs.
3. They could offer no fee ETF trades on their own ETFs at least. Right now they are double dipping in collecting a trading fee and a management fee.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

IB has insanely cheap margin does it not? Unless you're making $100K plus trades, ie. trading 1000+ bank stocks, you shouldn't be getting killed on commish.

Would love to a buy a 5% yielding stock with 2% interest on margin.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hello CC may i just question this sentence from your message upthread about tdw.
_
" Avoiding currency conversions on dividends is a nice-to-have feature for me." _

actually & alas, dividends paid by US companies for stocks held in rrsp at tdw are subject to this broker's FX fees.

one representative thought that electing to receive the dividends as DRIPS would get around the FX. So i tried this. Things did not work out. For the first dividend payout in this experiment, the broker recorded receipt of an amount of money that was *net* of the appropriate FX fee, then bought the right amount of new shares with this net amount.

coises. Foiled again.

i believe that there may be an inkling of a chance that a concerted campaign by many clients, asking the big green to cease charging FX on US dividends in registered accounts, might possibly have some effect.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

> i believe that there may be an inkling of a chance that a concerted campaign by many clients, asking the big green to cease charging FX on US dividends in registered accounts, might possibly have some effect.


I'd be happy to pitch in for a campaign. I haven't bothered so far because paying 2% foreign conversion on a 2% dividend yield adds about 4 basis points in costs. However, if an investor owned dividend payers paying 4%, foreign exchange conversion will cost 8 basis points. If there were to pay retail to convert currency again, the cost will be 16 basis points.

Many competing brokers now offer US Dollar RRSP accounts that allows an investor to completely avoid these fees. At the very least TDW should provide a way to wash dividend payments into the US$ money market fund.


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## yyzvoyageur (Apr 10, 2009)

It's always at the bottom of the list, but I'm actually happy with HSBC InvestDirect. Their platform is clunky, but it works quite well. Trades are only $6.88 for Premier clients ($100 000 in assets with InvestDirect and/or with the bank). Customer service has always been prompt and knowledgeable. Other than the low trading commissions I don't pay any administration fees, account fees, etc. That said, I'm mostly a buy-and-hold investor and I'm not looking for vast amounts of research. I wouldn't be comfortable switching to the smaller brokers (Virtual Brokers, Qtrade), opting instead for the perceived safety of the big banks.

I've also use BMO InvestorLine briefly. I didn't see anything special.


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## balk (Dec 6, 2010)

I have used Questrade for that past couple of years and I haven't had any problems apart from them getting my name wrong. The cheap commissions are great, especially for an index investor who likes to make monthly or quarterly contributions. 

The one major drawback to Questrade is their software for tracking performance. Does anyone have a website or program they would recommend that is good for tracking rate of return, etc?

Thanks,

Balk


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

voyageur thanks for your comment it's always interesting to hear the good points of the underdog. That low 6.99 commission for hsbc premier clients sounds good, i didn't know that existed.

in addition hsbc has long offered online trading in hong kong & london at commish that would be comparable to tdw's global trading platform, which hsbc pre-dated by several years, would that not be true ?

and in a financial meltdown, one would hope that a big international bank would survive better than a tiny privately-owned enterprise about whose capitalization absolutely nothing is known ...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm sure that's what Lehman's clients thought, too.


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## alphatrader2000 (Aug 18, 2010)

The ranking is very interesting. I must say I have an account with Qtrade and their service is great. I also have an account with Virtual Brokers and they have done a fantastic job in improving their website. Totally unique. Their new commisison blew me away, you can trade for as low as 99 cent. however, this free ETF offering from all the firms is all BS. The ETFs are all illiquid.


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## Oxidd1979 (Feb 14, 2011)

balk said:


> The one major drawback to Questrade is their software for tracking performance. Does anyone have a website or program they would recommend that is good for tracking rate of return, etc?


I use a mix of Globe & Mail and LesAffaires.com
You can link your G&M portfolio in LesAffaires.com, and the G&M "Plus" paying account features are free in LesAffaires, go figure... LesAffaires is only in french, but it should be easy enough for anyone to understand. -1000$ in english or french is written the same!


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## nahanni (Nov 24, 2011)

*Questrade - Mutual Fund Trailer Fee Rebates*

I am thinking of transferring my mutual fund portfolios to Questrade to get the mutual fund trailer fee rebates.

Does anyone have any experience with this? 

Will mutual fund companies refuse the pay trailer fees if there is no registered agent?

Has anyone had any negative experiences with Questrade? My activity in stocks in low but I may purchase more ETFs. 

Are there any other online brokerages that offer trailer fee rebates?

Thanks!:


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/canadian-online-discount-stock-brokerage-comparison/
> 
> .


Thanks for the link and Mike good job putting the info together.

If you ever have time or for the future perhaps it may be a good idea to include not just the commissions and fees but also interest earnings and so on, for example in questrade in order to earn interest on cash balance one would have to buy money market mutual fund, and that costs 9.95 to buy and sell, I believe others offer free mutual funds buys in some cases (possibly their own products).
Questrade offers GIC free of charge, but for liquid cash to earn anything MM mutual funds are the only option, $20 between buy and sell pretty much kills it unless the sums are quite significant.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Good link! Just wanted to add. 
For CIBC - Administration fees "RRSP, RRIF, LIRA, LIF – $100 unless balance is greater than $25,000". 
It's enough if you have 25K in ONE of the registered accounts and if you have less than 25K on others -the fees are waived. (I have there RRSP with balance greater than 25K and LIRA with amount less than 25K and 2 TFSA with amount less than 25K -> they confirmed that my fees are 0).

In TDW they would charge me per account, so I'd pay fees for LIRA.
This is why I transfers my LIRA to CIBC (I have RRSP in both)


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

nahanni said:


> I am thinking of transferring my mutual fund portfolios to Questrade to get the mutual fund trailer fee rebates.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this?
> 
> ...



I wrote about the Questrade mutual fund rebate program a while ago:

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/questrade-mutual-fund-fee-rebate-and-free-transfer-offer/

I just checked their website and it looks like the terms haven't changed. The important thing to note is that you only get a rebate on the amount of mutual funds in excess of $36,000.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

gibor said:


> Good link! Just wanted to add.
> For CIBC - Administration fees "RRSP, RRIF, LIRA, LIF – $100 unless balance is greater than $25,000".
> It's enough if you have 25K in ONE of the registered accounts and if you have less than 25K on others -the fees are waived. (I have there RRSP with balance greater than 25K and LIRA with amount less than 25K and 2 TFSA with amount less than 25K -> they confirmed that my fees are 0).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Gibor - I have updated the web page.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

nahanni said:


> Has anyone had any negative experiences with Questrade?


Despite the fact that certain individuals with a vested interest will not tell you, there is indeed lots of negativity out there on this company. All you have to do is search for it here in CMF and in google. There is plenty of dirt.

Be very careful.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Homerhomer said:


> Thanks for the link and Mike good job putting the info together.
> 
> If you ever have time or for the future perhaps it may be a good idea to include not just the commissions and fees but also interest earnings and so on, for example in questrade in order to earn interest on cash balance one would have to buy money market mutual fund, and that costs 9.95 to buy and sell, I believe others offer free mutual funds buys in some cases (possibly their own products).
> Questrade offers GIC free of charge, but for liquid cash to earn anything MM mutual funds are the only option, $20 between buy and sell pretty much kills it unless the sums are quite significant.


Thanks Homer (and Gibor too) for the kind words. That comparison took a ridiculous amount of time to put together.

Good suggestion about the money market funds - I need to look into buying some in fact.

That will make a good article. I don't want to put specific interest rates (and subsequent calculations and conclusions) on the brokerage comparison because it will go out of date quickly, plus the money market funds themselves are not specific to each brokerages.

I don't think you need that much money to negate the $20 buy/sell fee. If a product has a 2% interest rate, the interest earned on the first $1,000 will cover the fee if held for one year.

Obviously timing is a big factor along with the amount. If you are buying a money mkt fund for two weeks at Questrade, then you need a much higher amount to make it worthwhile compared to if you are going to own it for say six months.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Despite the fact that certain individuals with a vested interest will not tell you,.


I am a certain individual with no vested interest ;-) and for the most part have been happy with questrade, few minor hickups here and there but nothing tragic as certain individuals with an agenda ;-) would lead you to believe.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Obviously timing is a big factor along with the amount. If you are buying a money mkt fund for two weeks at Questrade, then you need a much higher amount to make it worthwhile compared to if you are going to own it for say six months.


And I think many of the discount brokerage users would fall into this category, for mid to long term GIC financial institutions would most likely offer better rates, but for short term interest in between shares/etf purchases MM free of charge would most likely be the only way to go.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Forgot to mention - Ram has put together a high interest savings account (fund) list which is very up to date.

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/

It appears they pay around 1.2% (not 2%), so you would need quite a bit more than $1,000 for one year to cover the interest after paying the buy/sell fees at Questrade.

I'm not sure how many investors would hold these products for any length of time. In my case, I would rather own XSB if I'm going to hold it for any length of time (ie several months or more), which means that it's probably not worthwhile for me to pay the $20 even though I might be buying a decent amount (ie $20,000) at any given time.

It would be interesting to know if very many investors buy these products for long term investing.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Four Pillars said:


> Thanks for the info Gibor - I have updated the web page.


Also CIBC (and I think TDW) validate market value on your accounts for admin fee purposes in August, even though they mention that they can do random check during any month.


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