# New TDDI UI



## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

They must be phasing it in. No change for me today.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Looks the same for me today too.

The only thing I notice is that they *STILL* have not fixed a bug that causes the market value of some debenture installments I'm holding to be overstated by 100x, causing all the other percentages, gains and so forth to be computed incorrectly.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Ag Driver said:


> I think the old link or bookmark has yet to be updated. I did have to follow a new link to get the new UI.
> As a side note regarding TDDI -- In order to purchase a GIC, do I have to call -- or is there a way to purchase one online through web broker?


I'm still seeing the old style as well.
You can view various GIC offerings through fixed income lookup, but it tells you you have to call to order.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

Like pwm I am not seeing any UI updates today either.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Ag Driver said:


> I think the old link or bookmark has yet to be updated. I did have to follow a new link to get the new UI.


Same with me. I had the old UI until I clicked on a link someone posted. Maybe they are rolling it out in stages.



> As a side note regarding TDDI -- In order to purchase a GIC, do I have to call -- or is there a way to purchase one online through web broker?


You have to call TDDI to buy a GIC. On a plus note, sometimes when I have called, they have rates that are slightly higher than WebBroker shows.

On a negative note, the Fixed Income link does not work in the new UI. I get a System Difficulties message. I put in a bug report.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> You can view various GIC offerings through fixed income lookup


You can get that page here without being logged in, if you just want to see what's available.
https://fibondoneselfserve.tdwaterhouse.ca/FIP_GICLinkWeb/GICLink?language=en

The available rates suck. You'd be better to go direct to the PT, Tangerine, what-have-you.


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## jerryhung (Mar 28, 2011)

I believe I posted the new link on RFD

You can try it, hopefully it works
I have the new UI, liked it a bit better than old one but seems slower too

but it's down now, from 9 pm tonight to 4 pm tomorrow


> Important Update: New WebBroker Experience & Advanced Dashboard - System Maintenance
> 
> Please be advised that due to planned system maintenance, the new WebBroker experience and Advanced Dashboard will be unavailable on *October 21 from 9:00 pm until approximately 4:00 am (ET) on October 22*.
> 
> ...


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

Both my wife and I are being offered the option of using the new UI when we log into WebBroker now.

For those that are using it already, once you make the switch is there any way to go back to the "old" UI?

I'm willing to give the new UI a try but I'd like to be able to go back to the UI I am using now if I don't like the new one. I suspect that eventually everyone will be pushed to the new UI eventually but I'd like to hold out as long as possible if I don't like it.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

0xCC said:


> For those that are using it already, once you make the switch is there any way to go back to the "old" UI?


Yes, there is a "Return to Current WebBroker" link at the top of each page.

The new UI seems a bi more complex but it has some nice improvements in information and capabilities.


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

Great, thanks. I will give it a try then.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Oh, I am enjoying it very much.


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## treva84 (Dec 9, 2014)

I like it as well. Looks more modern than the old UI plus I like the little home page tool that talks about dividends, earning reports for stocks you own, etc.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I got an email today talking about the new Webbroker. They didn't say how to get to it! I only get the old UI with no indication of how to see the new UI.

Is there a new URL?


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I see what's going on. It's based on connect ID. I tried my wife's connect ID and went to the new UI.


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah, my wife was offered the new UI probably two weeks before I was.

I'm not totally sure I like it yet. The overall information density seems to be lower but some things are quicker and easier to get to and it looks real purdy.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I still have not received my email telling me the new UI is available for me. I know they are phasing it in, so I'm wondering how many TDDI users here are still on the old UI?


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

I still am.


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

If anyone is curious about what the new UI looks like I might be able to post a like to a webcast that goes over the new UI. I haven't watched the webcast myself so I have no idea how good it is or if you even need to be logged into TDDI to view it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

wondering if anyone here has the logout button problem? it's a common glitch, says TD. 

logout button is so high it's off the screen. The only way to operate it is to compress the font & the display drastically. Then after the logout, client has to painstakingly restore the settings.

luckily i only have new webbroker on one account, the other account still has old web & i'm not going to accept the new configiuration until they patch the glitch.

the TD says hopefully by 1 january 2016. They said some clients don't have this problem, but many do.

other than the missing logout button, the place looks very appealing.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I've tried the new UI a few times, but will stick with the old one as long as possible. The new format does't add any value for my needs.
I've found that trying to open and/or download confirmations through the new interface does not work.
Didn't notice the login button issue. Will have to look at that.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I can't seem to download my documents (statements, confirmations) from the new interface. It was working for a while but it stopped and won't work anymore. I switched back to the old so I can get my documents.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

I like the look but find it slow to load, maybe because I am on a tablet.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> logout button is so high it's off the screen. The only way to operate it is to compress the font & the display drastically. Then after the logout, client has to painstakingly restore the settings.


In most browsers, Ctrl-0 (#0 not the letter O) will restore your zoom level. Side note: Ctrl + and Ctrl - will increase and decrease zoom level.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Still no email message for me and I still get the old web page. Anyone else still waiting?


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

I now have access to the new UI now and tried it but I switched back.

When I scrolled down the page a certain amount, it popped out of place vertically and repositioned itself; very annoying visually.

I'm on windows vista, could be that the new UI doesn't work well with the older operating system, dunno.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Xoron said:


> In most browsers, Ctrl-0 (#0 not the letter O) will restore your zoom level. Side note: Ctrl + and Ctrl - will increase and decrease zoom level.



many clients with laptops had this glitch. The big green had numerous reports. Zooming didn't cure, it was necessary to change 4 or 5 advanced font settings, then change back to normal after the logout. It was a high priority defect & they've been able to fix it.

there are many other small glitches of lesser importance, mostly lurking in advanced research applications, eg parts of advanced chart settings don't work the way they should, etc. In every case, the big already knows about the problem & has it on the repair list.

this "new" webbroker is really just the old one with a prettier interface. The only innovation is trailing order stops. The next version that they're working on right now is actually the one that will offer genuine advances to TD clients.

there'll be real time margin quotes for every security & contingent option spread orders online, both big plusses for option traders. Coming later this year, they say. Can't wait.

reduction in commissions? i don't think so

fast, easy online gambit sell orders? i don't think so


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## leeder (Jan 28, 2012)

I tried it out for about 2-3 days. Ultimately, I went back to the old version. I find the look almost cartoonish. It was also somewhat more difficult navigating around. Maybe I just don't embrace change well haha.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

For some strange reason, the "Balances" page, which I find useful to retrieve totals, is not one of the options that can be made the default landing page on logon.

More annoyingly, the maximum security timeout period is 15 minutes, but if you are buried down a few levels of pages and tabs and timeout, when you click something again it doesn't AJAX a nice login popup and let you stay where you were, but goes back to the main login page and then to your landing page, forcing you to fight back to where you were before.

Still no indicator of which securities have the synthetic DRIP turned on (much less being able to request this online).


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## habsfan59 (Oct 23, 2012)

I have the same reaction as other in the forum, I tried the new UI and not overly impressed with its navigation schema. I am quite happy to keep using the old platform for a little longer...!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mrPPincer said:


> When I scrolled down the page a certain amount, *it popped out of place vertically and repositioned itself*; very annoying visually.


That's my biggest complaint too.

Scrolling is broken. When I scroll on pages using the mouse scrollwheel, the page pops and snaps all over the place.

I phoned TD to tell them about it but the rep said ridiculous things like my web browser's javascript is out of date (nonsensical -- I'm using latest Chrome). I hope TD has a way to hear our feedback, because their new interface has bugs that need fixing.

Is there some way to send feedback to people at TD who actually know about web development?

I reverted to the old interface.


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Is there some way to send feedback to people at TD who actually know about web development?


On the new interface there is a little orange strip on the right hand side of the page that is around 5-10 cursor heights tall and half a cursor width wide. If you hover over that orange strip a "Feedback" tab slides out. I have no idea where the feedback goes but you can hope it goes to someone that knows about web development.

Edit: I just clicked it and it takes you to a survey. The first question on the survey is how satisfied you are with the new interface and there is space for comments. So maybe someone actually reads all those comments.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> That's my biggest complaint too.
> Scrolling is broken. When I scroll on pages using the mouse scrollwheel, the page pops and snaps all over the place.
> Is there some way to send feedback to people at TD who actually know about web development?
> I reverted to the old interface.



there's a "feedback" orange button that will pop out from the right side of the screen. Unfortunately it's a full survey, so it's not useful for filing a specific complaint.

for specific issues, you could try the EBS help desk at 1-888-829-3747. Try your very best to reach the bridgewater, nova scotia call centre. The other centre, in ottawa, is mostly so hopeless that they appear to be from an entirely different company (they're not 2 different companies, so why the levels of training & competence are so different is baffling.)

it's too bad about the rep you reached, the one with the java complaint. He's an exception, the reps i've stumbled on are good at helping with complaints.

in fact there are many scrollbar malfunctions. They affect some of the dropdown menus, ie without a scrollbar it's impossible to access down through the menu! hint: one of the reps told me to try TAB TAB TAB TAB, it did generate a scrollbar in the malfunctioning dropdown. Would that do you any good, james4?

apparently there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of complaints about the new webbroker. There are fair numbers of clients asking that old webbroker not be abandoned, that it be kept going as an alternate platform. Two platforms would cost $$ for sure, so who knows what the big green will do.

i mentioned upthread that the important system updates are not yet here in new webbroker? this first version is almost entirely a reconfiguration of data we used to find in old webbroker, except with a lot more glitches?

the real improvements & updates are only going to appear in the next generation, which TD says should be out this year.

therefore i think that what we've got now is just the beta version. The big green is relying on client feedback to uncover the glitches.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I finally got my email today from TDDI saying _"Your new online investing experience is waiting for you"_. 

They lied. I still see the old UI. I've tried different browsers and different machines. Still no joy. What they should have done is put an option in the old UI to flip to he new one. Apparently you can flip back but not forward. I worked in IT for 35 years and based on my experience, I kind of think they choked on this upgrade.


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

For me on the "Homepage" and the "Balances" page I see a "Try the new WebBroker" link beside the Help and Print links in the upper right corner of the page (but underneath the two green menu bars).


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Yes, I'm confused. It's been available for quite some time. I even get an annoying popup screen whenever I logon telling me my new webbroker experience is waiting (Win7 and current Chrome browser). And you can still toggle between to old and the new GUI. 
Prepare to be underwhelmed though. For my use, the old version is fine. It is much more'compact' without the useless visual pies and graphs thank you. I shudder to think of the new one being the only choice in the future.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

All I see is "Help" and "Print". I appears from what you say, that once you have been granted access, then you can go back and forth. For me there's only the old IU. I'm not exactly eager to see it, since the old UI works fine for me, but it does rankle when they say it's there and it's not.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

No link to "Try the new webbroker"? I wonder if its possible to use an older link that directs you to only the old GUI?
View attachment 8522


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

There doesn't seem to be a new URL. They seem to be rolling it out on a "per user" basis. Here's what I see:

View attachment 8530


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

Strange. I would agree with you, this does seem to be a little bit of a botched roll-out. There should be a connection between sending out the welcome email and actually enabling it on your account. That sort of stuff is not bleeding-edge technology, it is just best practice for these sorts of things.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I phoned them. He had me go to "Advanced Dashboard" and click on "Enroll for Advanced Dashboard", then X off the next screen. Now I'm in the new UI! 

Real intuitive! Like I said, they botched the go live.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Odd. I don't even use the advanced dashboard.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I spent some time with the new UI and I like what I see. I'm not having any issues using WIN/10 and current Chrome browser. Everything is mostly where is was before but with bigger fonts and brighter colours. I expect they will freeze the old UI and only add enhancements to the new one to encourage migration to it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

How exactly can we get feedback back to TD web developers regarding this new UI? I've so far provided feedback by phone to agents and I really hope the web programmers are getting my messages.

The seemingly random "snapping" which ruins the scrolling totally ruins this user interface for me, and makes it unusable.

It's a really simple fix actually. Currently they have a banner at the top. They have this stupid idea of hiding it at times and making it visible under certain conditions. Scrolling the page triggers those conditions and results in the page snapping up or down.

All they have to do is leave the banner in place... consistently... to prevent snapping.

If someone here like humble_pie has good connections to TD, I'd love to get this feedback to the right person. I feel like they are NOT listening to feedback, because I even dropped into a TD Waterhouse location and the guy I talked to there agreed that this snapping behaviour was the most common complaint... and he hates it too... so why is nobody fixing it?


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

J4B, I've never returned to the old UI after my first try of the new one. I find it much better. 

I can't see any "snapping" issues as you describe them although I believe you do have a valid complaint. Not sure what you mean by "banner at the top that gets hidden". I'm running current Chrome browser on Win 10.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I have flipped to the new UI and tried it out a few times, but the old adage clearly applied IMO, "if it ain't broke...". I'm not sure how long the old one will exist though. I suppose the problem is that I don't have the need to spend a lot of time in my accounts. I login, download 7 accs and then work with them in excel a half dozen times a year or so. Then when I need to buy/sell I login again. I also login to download transaction and monthly statement pdf's - that's about it The new UI seems designed for those who want to see fairly precooked pies and performances graphs in the app, probably while they are on the bus on their smart phone? 
I'm interested, what are the top few improvements new UI users like?


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

I don't like the new format. It sucks.

The new interface does provide information that wasn't readily available on the old interface, though. It's not a big deal but it would be more pleasant to use if it didn't have that Windows 8 style interface.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

james4beach said:


> ... so why is nobody fixing it?


As best I can tell, TD is pretty responsive on these issues. I've heard from a "reliable source" that TD has particularly tight change management so in the case of a non-service affecting problem, a fix is not going to be moved into production quickly. The actual fix might be trivial but the validation process, business unit sign off, and change management process are horrendously onerous.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

TomB19 said:


> As best I can tell, TD is pretty responsive on these issues. I've heard from a "reliable source" that TD has particularly tight change management so in the case of a non-service affecting problem, a fix is not going to be moved into production quickly. The actual fix might be trivial but the validation process, business unit sign off, and change management process are horrendously onerous.


And honestly, as an ex-IT person, this is a GOOD thing. Yes, it's frustrating, but it ensures fewer issues/outages.


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## Hippie (Mar 2, 2016)

I've been using the new Webbroker UI and I like it, but the system has been down since about 1/2 hr before close today. That really shouldn't happen.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

Hippie said:


> ... the system has been down since about 1/2 hr before close today. That really shouldn't happen.


Agreed and this has happened a few times in the last year.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

TomB19 said:


> Agreed and this has happened a few times in the last year.


It seems that their rigorous testing system has been failing.


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## jerryhung (Mar 28, 2011)

It was down briefly today as well
Although Advanced Dashboard was still working


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I am curious, has anyone used Internet Explorer 11 to log in? I tried to log in and all that happened is that the website kept spawning new tabs. In other words, pretty useless.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> I am curious, has anyone used Internet Explorer 11 to log in? I tried to log in and all that happened is that the website kept spawning new tabs. In other words, pretty useless.


Quite a while ago now I was having grief with IE10(?) The TDDI screen seemed to keep 'refreshing' and was basically unusable. I switched to Chrome and permanently removed IE. Haven't had any problems since.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Quite a while ago now I was having grief with IE10(?) The TDDI screen seemed to keep 'refreshing' and was basically unusable. I switched to Chrome and permanently removed IE. Haven't had any problems since.


Sounds like what was happening with me. It would refresh and spawn a new tab, which would then refresh and spawn another tab and so on.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

bgc_fan said:


> Sounds like what was happening with me. It would refresh and spawn a new tab, which would then refresh and spawn another tab and so on.


The same thing happens to me with IE11, but only occasionally. I try to remember to log in from a separate IE window so I can easily kill it without closing other tabs I have open.

Another thing is when I select Trading->Fixed Income it says "Your session has expired, please log in again, then takes me to the login screen. I have reported this bug twice.

Never happens in Chrome.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

a major problem with the new TD interface is that chrome doesn't support advanced dashboard, which requires java. Dashboard users have to revert to IE 11. The chrome deficiency is due to the standoff/lawsuit between google & sun micro.

but IE browsers are getting spottier & spottier. One hears that the new microsoft browser is Edge, designed to replace the entire line of IEs.

back to the big green & its new huggable website. New huggable green is certainly a cute & pretty thing. Looks great on phones when client wants quick quote or impulse order or account balance.

but for users who are used to the fast & easy-though-advanced research features on the old interface, new TD web takes more navigation. Resources are harder to find, not easier to find. Some fabulous features are even missing (what were they thinking of?)

a key improvement in new huggable green will appear soon. This will be realtime margin reporting for clients' accounts. Hopefully this will correct the gross inaccuracies in option valuation. These - the gross option inaccuracies used throughout old webBroker - have always destroyed margin values & account values, not to speak of destroying the "Performance" widget in old webBroker.

btw i don't want to imply that TDDI the broker is mistaken about margin values. The internal TDDI system & all the licensed representatives can of course see, in fact everything operates upon, realtime margin values. It's only the old TD client interface that doesn't show realtime margin data to the clients, so clients have always been in the dark. This - i believe - had something to do with the cost of importing realtime margin calculation into old webBroker. A longtime goal for the big green has always been to show realtime margin data everywhere & now, with huggable, they have succeeded.

evidently realtime margin pricing is set to debut next month. I'll be happy to see how it looks. 

option spread trading won't appear in this 2nd iteration of new huggable green, though. Supposedly option spreads are coming next.


.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

GreatLaker said:


> Another thing is when I select Trading->Fixed Income it says "Your session has expired, please log in again, then takes me to the login screen. I have reported this bug twice.
> 
> Never happens in Chrome.


I think this has happened to me in Firefox. I don't think I did exactly as you described, but I do recall when I have chosen some options it would give that message. Maybe I should just stick to Chrome.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

If you open TD Webbroker from an opened tab in Chrome, it works but then you can no longer back out to what was there before. A minor inconvenience. Sometimes, when I change logon IDs, it says the password in wrong. Works the next time.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

a new toy appeared couple days ago.

the TD has introduced virtual master classes in new webBroker. Real time classes are equipped with camera & microphone, TD clients can attend & ask live questions if they like.

classes run at set hours according to a schedule. Students need to register but can use nicknames. Any old nickname works. Can block camera if having a bad hair day.

right now they're offering classes in how-to-use-webbroker-&-advanced-dashboard. Somewhat boring, but the technology is limitlessly adaptable. Hopefully more exciting conferences will follow.

heigh-ho heigh-ho it's back to school we go


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

When I provided feedback that the new site was much slower than the old one, they offered training options.
I pointed out that it isn't training, it's that their new site is actually slower to react.

Sure the new site looks nice, but it takes longer to actually perform the task. I hate it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> When I provided feedback that the new site was much slower than the old one, they offered training options.
> I pointed out that it isn't training, it's that their new site is actually slower to react.
> 
> Sure the new site looks nice, but it takes longer to actually perform the task. I hate it.



i know what you mean. Some of the reps will even say that experienced clients are voicing their finding that new webbroker - code name huggable - requires more clicks & more scrolling around than the old website.

i used to think that i disliked huggable, but lately i've made up my mind to waste no more time or energy on the dislike. Because huggable is where it's at & the only alternative is to pack up & leave the big green. 

huggle is a much better interface for the underlying mainframe, which is still the venerable ISM system leased from IBM. Soon, huggable will provide real time margin quotes, something the TD has been working on for nearly a quarter of a century. 

before the end of the year, huggle is supposed to be rolling out an option spread trading platform.

.


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Force*

Today I have received an email stating that the new format will be implemented shortly whether I like it or not. Any one in the same boat?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

pwm said:


> I can't see any "snapping" issues as you describe them although I believe you do have a valid complaint. Not sure what you mean by "banner at the top that gets hidden". I'm running current Chrome browser on Win 10.


To see what I mean, get a page with a long listing, like a list of account holdings or balances. Start at the top of the page, and slowly scroll the page downwards. Eventually you will see that the header (the browsing widget) disappears, and the page jumps -- which loses your spot where you are scrolling.

A TD agent has now told me that this will never be fixed. He said that the auto-hiding of the top header is a deliberate behaviour to be more mobile-friendly, to save screen real estate. Grrrrr

There's a reason I use giant screens for my desktop computing. It's so I can clearly see complex things all at once.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

stantistic said:


> Today I have received an email stating that the new format will be implemented shortly whether I like it or not. Any one in the same boat?


Yes, same email. _"Starting this fall... enhanced look and feel to make your investing experience better than ever."_ 
Poppycock.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Show me a serious investor who does everything from a smartphone!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

kcowan said:


> Show me a serious investor who does everything from a smartphone!


Yes, exactly. Why are they optimizing the site for small screens and smartphones?

Their redesign is at the detriment of the desktop computing experience, which I think is still the most common platform used by serious investors.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

J4B: Yes, now that I look closer, I see what you mean by the "snapping" effect. Now that I know what you were referring to I've noticed the same effect on other websites as well. Seems to be a common technique.

Funny how I never even noticed it until you pointed it out, and yet it seems to bother you so much.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The reason is bothers me is that I often run down the list of accounts or investments, checking things like by line. While scrolling down like this, I lose my spot when it snaps.

Yeah I guess it's personal taste. Other than this, I don't have any gripes about the new UI. Though I'd love it if they finally add online GIC purchases


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i dislike those little buttoned-up drop-down menus for advanced charts & options.

so many more clicks. One has to open the little drop-down, then scroll down to click on one's choice.

it sounds fine but it's not fine. The longer drop-down lists have tall vertical spaces of more than 1 centimetre between the vertical items, so the bottoms of such lists are always below the screens. Sometimes in scrolling down the little drop-down vanishes entirely. Re-scroll up, begin again.

after one scrolls far down to the bottom of one's list & clicks an item to select, one is promptly deposited onto a blank white screen. One has to scroll upwards to get to the data one has, in fact, chosen. Evidently this is a known problem, i'm sure they've tried to work on it but no solution yet.

nothing like this ever presented itself in old webbroker. One had visible choices in plain navigation bars, one hovered one's mouse, the selection appeared, simple.

i know i know, i *said* i would be good & put up with it all without complaint; but when using new webbroker i do feel exasperated. My main trading account is still running on old webbrkr, bless its heart. I imagine the guillotine will descend any day now though.

.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> The reason is bothers me is that I often run down the list of accounts or investments, checking things like by line. While scrolling down like this, I lose my spot when it snaps.


Wow, they fixed this glitch! I'm impressed.

Man what a difference between my US & Canadian banking experiences. In Canada, TD keeps going out of their way to treat me well as a customer (they've done a lot for me). As have the other big banks; I have accounts with most of them.

Whereas in the US, Wells Fargo engages in massive fraud by opening accounts behind customer's backs. I still have to make an appointment to go into Wells Fargo and inquire whether they have defrauded me by opening any hidden accounts. What a bizarre branch visit that will be: "hey, um, have you defrauded me?"

In case you wonder why I send all of my US employment income back to Canada.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

TDDI will close their old platform on Oct 3, 2016. I like new one compare to the old platform.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Whereas in the US, Wells Fargo engages in massive fraud by opening accounts behind customer's backs. I still have to make an appointment to go into Wells Fargo and inquire whether they have defrauded me by opening any hidden accounts. What a bizarre branch visit that will be: "hey, um, have you defrauded me?"


Off-topic, but if there are hidden accounts, why would they hide them with 0 balances and no fees being charged? That part does not compute for me. Keep us posted.

Anecdote: I've had WF bank and credit card accounts for over 15 years and have never had an issue. Granted I don't use any of their other services nor have any experience with the former Wachovia operation they swallowed up in the carnage of the financial meltdown. I don't like their $2k fee-free minimum in their checking account but it does pay a paltry 0.1% interest or something like that.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It was a scam the bank was running to boost sales or new account opening bonuses. And sometimes there were fees collected as well. Unless you've delved into it, I wouldn't assume they haven't done this to you... the fraudulently opened accounts were not visible through their online banking portal, nor would they mail statements for them. You might want to phone and ask them as well.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/technology/wells-fargo-lawsuit/
http://fortune.com/2016/09/29/wells-fargo-cross-selling-2/
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/09/22/What-Do-If-You-Were-Scammed-Wells-Fargo

It's a developing story but I'm going to visit a branch here and get their assurance that they haven't opened hidden accounts in my name. Some social embarassment is also useful to help keep bankers in check, so it's worth the visit.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Yeah, I am well aware of the issue but there's not been anything nefarious that I could (should have been able to) detect. That said, my accounts are relatively inactive, in use only when I do USD transactions. In any case, inform us of your findings.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I still haven't found the time yet to visit a branch. The last account & credit card statements included this note. Classy.

_We want to ensure you're comfortable with your accounts and have the tools you need to manage your money. We recommend you
visit your local Wells Fargo bank location, or call the toll-free number that appears on this statement, to make sure you are satisfied
with all your accounts and services.

We'll spend time understanding your financial needs and reviewing your accounts and options. We'll also help you close any accounts
or discontinue services you do not recognize or want, and discuss the process that's been established to address any remaining
concerns resulting from accounts and services opened on your behalf._


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Just an F.Y.I for J4B: Regarding the TDDI UI, the "snapping effect" that bothered you while scrolling in a list, seems to be gone now. At least I can no longer see it using Chrome.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

pwm said:


> Just an F.Y.I for J4B: Regarding the TDDI UI, the "snapping effect" that bothered you while scrolling in a list, seems to be gone now. At least I can no longer see it using Chrome.


I can confirm that on Firefox (for me anyway), this very distracting snapping problem is fixed.

ltr


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*IE 11 problem*

Post transition on Oct. 25 to the new TDDI interface, a problem arose when I attempted to go to Research >Fixed Income. The machine would consistently indicate an error "Your session has expired. Please log in again." The OS is Win 7 the browser IE 11.
When I complained to tech support, the technician was unable to find the cause of the error so he guided me into the installation of a Chrome browser. No problem with Chrome. For consistency, because I am familiar with IE 11, and my bookmarks are on it, I wonder if there is a simple fix to IE 11 ?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

pwm said:


> Just an F.Y.I for J4B: Regarding the TDDI UI, the "snapping effect" that bothered you while scrolling in a list, seems to be gone now. At least I can no longer see it using Chrome.


Thanks, and yes it's gone for me too! I'm happy with the new UI now


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Slow and glitchy*

I find the new TDDI user interface slow and glitchy compared to the old one. Is it just me, or are there others with the same view ? 

OS Win 7 - browser IE11 - antivirus Microsoft Essentials.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Have you tried chrome browser?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i don't find it's any faster with chrome or FF though.

i see 2 areas that contribute to slow speed. One is logging on & logging out. Evidently another mainframe is interposed between us, the clients, & the base legacy mainframe which is now & always has been (world without end) ISM.

ISM is well worth keeping even though it's an old system. Its handicap until recently has been that it's near impossible to build a canadian RRSP account on it, or to obtain real-time margin quotes through it, or to send paired or contingent trade orders.

other brokers using ISM (the majority of canadian brokers) face the same issues. The big green has been hammering away at these issues for at least a decade & the results are coming in. They now have dual currency registered accounts. Very soon will debut real-time margin quotations. Next year is expected a sophisticated option spread trading platform.

these improvements have been made possible by the interpositioning of the additional mainframe i mentioned above. Don't even think of asking for tech details, i'm only a poor scribe reporting what i heard.

as for the 2nd general feature that requires a lot of extra clicking & makes the website slow to use, these appear to all be design features. They mostly show up in the more advanced interfaces. I've asked for improvements but have had no luck.

if ever i have some time to kill & feel like taking on a project with a hopeless future, i'll start making a series of screen shots showing how it now takes 13 clicks, for example, to obtain the kind of detailed option data that i used to be able to pull just by hovering the cursor ...


.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

The long awaited (and oft delayed) TDDI new and improved monthly statements are available today for the month of June.

I use my own software, so I don't usually pay attention or get too fussed about their statements, but I have observed that they're a bit confusing, and every new iteration makes them more-so in my opinion. Not unlike their change to the TDDI UI website, that I still don't like anywhere near as well as the old one.

Anyway, I guess the new statements are a bit better, but what struck me was the inclusion of reports of commissions and fees over specific periods. That's new.

Damn, I never realized they made so much money on the simple GIC's that I own. Not that I can do much about it, since GIC's pay about the best return for 5 years on fixed income, given their risk, but the bank is sure doing OK on those darn things.

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> Damn, I never realized they made so much money on the simple GIC's that I own. Not that I can do much about it, since GIC's pay about the best return for 5 years on fixed income, given their risk, but the bank is sure doing OK on those darn things.


Interesting. How does that work? Where are their fees coming from?

If the GIC I hold says 2.0% interest, do I actually get that full 2.0% or are they taking a piece of that? There are no explicit fees when buying the GIC from TDDI.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Interesting. How does that work? Where are their fees coming from?
> 
> If the GIC I hold says 2.0% interest, do I actually get that full 2.0% or are they taking a piece of that? There are no explicit fees when buying the GIC from TDDI.


Hey James, I was awoken when I saw the monthly statement from my TFSA, which holds exclusively GIC's, so it became obvious that the "other commissions" they showed for year-to-date and for the last 12 months were from GIC's alone. It has to be that, since there are no other securities in my TFSA.

Under the fees and commission chart it says: _Please refer to the Statement of Disclosure of Rates and Fees, etc, etc, etc_, and goes on to describe the difference between trailing commissions (which for me would be HISA TDB8150) and other commissions (which for me would be GIC's) so I suppose I could look it up and see where these fees come from.

ltr


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

Long time ago, I tried to explain to *Belguy* that yes, GICs have fees. I don't think he believed me.



source: http://www.investingforme.com/classroom/costs/guaranteed-investment-certificate


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

I also have GICs with TDDI. One account has GICs held, but I did not purchase any new GICs in that account and there was no "Other Commissions" charged. In 2 other accounts I bought GICs, and the "Other Commissions" line item shows amounts in multiples of $50, but I cannot decipher the exact method of charging, whether it is a flat rate per GIC purchased, or a % of the $ value purchased. "Other Commissions" were charged only where I bought new GICs, not where I simply held them in an account.

I suspect this is the GIC issuer paying a commission to TDDI for selling GICs. I also did not see anything in TDDI's fee schedule, likely because this is a fee paid by the GIC issuer to TDDI, not a fee charged to the account holder (i.e. me) by TDDI.

If the GIC rate is 2%, then I received 2% interest, and the commissions were not charged to me or deducted from my account in any way.

I suppose if I bought directly from the GIC issuer (like Home Capital or Oaken for example  ) I could get a slightly higher rate because they don't have to pay fees to the GIC broker, but that's less convenient than having my choice of multiple issuers like are available from a discount broker.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

zylon said:


> Long time ago, I tried to explain to *Belguy* that yes, GICs have fees. I don't think he believed me.
> 
> 
> 
> source: http://www.investingforme.com/classroom/costs/guaranteed-investment-certificate


Ahhhh, that explains it. I did not consider that the length of the GIC would impact the commission. So on a 5 yr $10k GIC the commission to TDDI would be $125. That formula corresponds exactly to the Other Commissions TDDI received from other parties.

Thanks zylon.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Last known sighting of Belguy was March 15 2016! Is he gone?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I saw the new format TD statement for the first time today. It shows those flaws in rate of return that humble_pie has been talking about (journals for example really throw it off).

The statement shows that my short account (which I use for gambits) has a -83% personal rate of return. The account which receives the other side of those journals also has incorrect rates of return shown.

For any account where you're doing journalling, the 'personal rates of return' will be useless.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I saw the new format TD statement for the first time today. It shows those flaws in rate of return that humble_pie has been talking about (journals for example really throw it off).
> 
> The statement shows that my short account (which I use for gambits) has a -83% personal rate of return. The account which receives the other side of those journals also has incorrect rates of return shown.
> 
> For any account where you're doing journalling, the 'personal rates of return' will be useless.




i haven't seen the statement yet but many performance gadgets are going to be unreal.

far worse than the false performance figs for any interlisted stock that has been cross-journalled, are the option "performance" figs. 

long story short: in options, all the brokers are vassals & slaves to the quote systems, their fatal "last prices" & other pricing anomalies.

if you have as little as a single option position lurking in your account, your touted "performance" widget has almost inevitably been thrown off. You're better off ignoring the pretty pictures showing up on your statement.


on the other hand, the big green could & should so something about the false figs caused by journalling stock from one currency to another. The TD is wrongfully using the FX rate on the day of the transfer, even though the transfer itself is not a taxable event & has zero effect upon a stock's true cost base (the correct FX rate to use is the FX rate in effect on the day the stock was purchased) (along with many other brokers, the TD is not researching or using this data)

.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> on the other hand, the big green could & should so something about the false figs caused by journalling stock from one currency to another. The TD is wrongfully using the FX rate on the day of the transfer, even though the transfer itself is not a taxable event & has zero effect upon a stock's true cost base (the correct FX rate to use is the FX rate in effect on the day the stock was purchased) (along with many other brokers, the TD is not researching or using this data).


Truly a shame especially if investors are using brokerage book values for Schedule 3. Doesn't seem to be a priority with IIROC? or whoever needs to crack the whip.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> if you have as little as a single option position lurking in your account, your touted "performance" widget has almost inevitably been thrown off. You're better off ignoring the pretty pictures showing up on your statement.


This means that there are at least two things that make the performance figures incorrect: options, and journalled shares.

I generally like the format of the new statements, and I think it's an improvement from before, but I wish they didn't put the performance stuff on there.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

recently i've been looking into how BMO is cost basing (what brokers often call book valuing) shares with complex swing trading & journalled histories, including US shares that have never been journalled but have been partially bought & partially sold many times over the years.

cost base is always crucial in any performance calculation. When shares have complicated holding histories, it's far more difficult for broker systems to maintain accurate cost base than it is to show market value. The latter - market value - is a snap.

interestingly, BMO appears to be cost basing correctly for shares with complicated histories, including journalling between currencies.

this indicates that the BMO system is capable of recording both CAD & USD prices for an interlisted stock every time a tax record point occurs. These tax points, or tax records, are buys & sells only, never any transfer from one account to another account. Nor is a transfer from one brokerage house to another brokerage house any kind of taxation event.

i imagine that this accomplishment on the part of BMO must be due to their ADP mainframe. It's an unusual engine. In canada only royal bank is using the same ADP system. Other brokers such as TD, scotia & cibc are all using ISM, which presents more difficulty recording CAD histories (as we know when we try to gambit currencies online at these brokers but cannot.)

to even the score, though, BMO is using a money-weighted performance calculator, which distorts accounts that have undergone substantial cash deposits & withdrawals. TD is using a time-weighted calculator, slightly more accurate imho.

still, because of the options, neither broker has a "performance" widget worth as much as a glance, other than to laugh.

btw TD's Think or Swim option platform is evaluating options at the midpoint between bid & ask. This produces a somewhat more accurate performance widget than TD's webBroker, although me i'd prefer to evaluate all options at their most recent bids only, even if those are off by a few nickels, since option asks can be total fiction.


.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

james4beach said:


> For any account where you're doing journalling, the 'personal rates of return' will be useless.


I hate to resurrect an old thread, but I am starting to grow increasingly frustrated with the utter wrongness of the book values TDDI shows for virtually everything I own. It's not just journaling either. In my case I hold a bunch of XIC in my RRSP and I went through each and every trade confirmation with a broker on the phone to prove that they had the wrong figure in there and all he could do was shrug. The old U/I at least had a way to submit a correction. In the new one, it seems impossible.

Mostly I don't care that much, but it really does undermine the value of all of their analysis crapola, when you can't even vaguely trust their accounting methods.

I am slightly worried about MF units though. I have some TDB8152 in my RRSP that has a clearly wrong book value -- maybe based on some contribution-in-kind currency calculation they did when I moved the units in. This is a bad sign for how accurate the book/ACB of my BNS385 is liable to be, and I need that one to be right since it's taxable.

I know I have complained about this to them. Have others? Anyone been given a feel for whether they are taking it seriously?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gardner said:


> I hate to resurrect an old thread, but I am starting to grow increasingly frustrated with the utter wrongness of the book values TDDI shows for virtually everything I own. It's not just journaling either. In my case I hold a bunch of XIC in my RRSP and I went through each and every trade confirmation with a broker on the phone to prove that they had the wrong figure in there and all he could do was shrug. The old U/I at least had a way to submit a correction. In the new one, it seems impossible.
> 
> Mostly I don't care that much, but it really does undermine the value of all of their analysis crapola, when you can't even vaguely trust their accounting methods.
> 
> ...





it's actually a very bad situation imho. Not just TD, all the brokers. There are far too many snags & wriggles where their systems are messing up. Since most investors don't know how to calculate an ACB anyhow, the brokers are getting away with a number of bizarre mistakes.

what happened with the latest round of IIROC regulations was to freeze broker data in place. It is far more difficult to change a broker's faulty cost base nowadays than it was, say, 2 years ago & prior.

of course the front line licensed reps shrug. They can't change anything. A client is usually invited to prepare & submit an entire dossier of past trades, transactions, statements, etc, to support his claim that ACB should be 10,777.00 instead of 8,666.00. To do this, client needs to be a kind of lawyer/CA super-combo.

a cherry on the top is that client must then visit the TD branch to hand-sign a form attesting that he wishes to make said change in his ACB. This form is to accompany the dossier to an unknown tribunal of back office clerks who will then rule. No appeals. The procedure appears to be a lot more harsh than immigration hearings for the Lacolle border crashers will ever be.

it's true that even one single error in either cost base or market price (nearly all options have false market prices) will throw the performance calculator & the gains/loss figures for the relevant statement into the garbage can.

at the same time, any person challenging the mess brokers are making needs to understand the difficulties the brokers are facing. Believe it or not, i for one am quite sympathetic to these challenges. Brokers are being forced to keep these "records" by the IIROC, which in turn is obviouslly channelling the Minister of Finance, which is carrying out the wishes of the CRA to achieve a national taxpayer capital gains/loss data base so that the tax authorities will be able - some day in the future - to assess us on that data base.

brokers are not chartered accountants so in difficult cases they are simply slapping on the first ACB price they can think of. 

how to solve this, i don't know. Now more than ever, clients need to keep their own perfect records.

one working tip in the meantime: it's a good idea to jump immediately upon a false cost base as soon as you spot it. Licensed reps answering the phone will help a client clean up a 10-day-old mess, when they absolutely will not help a client with a 10-month-old mess, let alone a 10-year-old mess.

another danger point is transfer of accounts between brokers. The uptaking broker is likely to falsify incoming cost bases. The best way to cure these mistakes is to object immediately. Instantly if not sooner.


EDIT to COMMENT: my takeaway is that the TD is far stuffier & far more draconian about correcting ACB errors than BMO investorline. I feel a lot of TD clients are going to have to e-mail a lot of polite protests before the big green lightens up.

.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

since i have manually changed acb's in the past i logged on to my td account to see what has changed and as you all say i can no longer change the bv manually

called and talked to a rep who said that you need to submit a form and documentation to make a book value change which sounds like a royal pain ... he then went on to assure me that if i haven't transfered anything in and everything has been purchased within the current td account it will be taken as gospel though ultimately, the taxpayer is responsible

indeed they are doing the work of the cra here

i use adjustedcostbase.ca and have for many years it is free and works like a charm

i compared my numbers to td's and all were dead on though a couple were off by the value of a commision but i don't have many accounts with too much trade complexity other than td-eseries which i never sell

he also said something that i wonder about, i mentioned that on my usa holdings, i keep them all in canadian dollars since adjustedcostbase allows you to enter the currency exchange for the trade day but the rep said that since i have us stocks in a seperate sub account i can just take the american dollar cost base and use that adjusted to the day of the sale exchange along with the proceeds from the same exchange rate because they won't be that different

i can't wrap my mind around how much different they would be but i think potentially a lot if held for quite a while and there were several trades


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fatcat said:


> he also said something that i wonder about, i mentioned that on my usa holdings, i keep them all in canadian dollars since adjustedcostbase allows you to enter the currency exchange for the trade day but the rep said that since i have us stocks in a seperate sub account i can just take the american dollar cost base and use that adjusted to the day of the sale exchange along with the proceeds from the same exchange rate because they won't be that different.
> 
> i can't wrap my mind around how much different they would be but i think potentially a lot if held for quite a while and there were several trades




speechless. The above "advice" from a poor ignorant licensed rep is so wrong i'm speechless.

imagine that. When the pie is speechless, then you know things have got to be real bad.

cat you must have sold a US security before. Naturally the CRA wants the gain/loss to be set forth in canadian dollars. How, exactly, did you report those sales?

.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> speechless. The above "advice" from a poor ignorant licensed rep is so wrong i'm speechless.
> 
> imagine that. When the pie is speechless, then you know things have got to be real bad.
> 
> ...


in canadian dollars ... i hope i haven't confused the issue ... he wasn't advising to report in usd, no

he was saying that the usd book value could be used as the basis for a gain or loss by using the same exchange rate on the day of the sale for both the book and proceeds

whereas, using adjustedcostbase.ca i keep my records using the exchange rate for the day of purchase

the rep was saying that there would be little difference and just converting the tf usd figure on the day of sale would be enough

does that make sense ?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fatcat said:


> in canadian dollars ... i hope i haven't confused the issue ... he wasn't advising to report in usd, no
> 
> _he was saying that the usd book value could be used as the basis for a gain or loss by using the same exchange rate on the day of the sale for both the book and proceeds_
> 
> ...




alas what the TD rep is saying above (underlined) is wrong. Really quite shockingly wrong. It's the sort of truly dumb thing many of them say, most of the time. 

the worst thing that could have happened to us investors was the Minister of Finance forcing brokers via the IIROC into functioning as unpaid non-remunerated chartered accountants. Look out below, it's going to be insanity.

btw you have got your own cost base for USD purchases correctly. You are using the FX rate of the day of purchase (i believe the CRA likes settlement date, but they are not going to complain as long as taxpayer sticks to the same system all the time.)

once again i'm inquiring: since you must have sold US securities in the past, what did you do to calculate the gain in CAD for canadian tax reporting purposes?


.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> btw you have got your own cost base for USD purchases correctly. You are using the FX rate of the day of purchase (i believe the CRA likes settlement date, but they are not going to complain as long as taxpayer sticks to the same system all the time.)


Correct, the investor is ultimately responsible to keep track of their own cost base, regardless what any institution may report.

Keep track of your own cost base accurately, and be able to back it up, and ignore what any broker might show on their website, because it matters not.

I've never even taken the time to look at what TDDI reports as my cost base, just as I ignore their indications of how my portfolio is doing. They're incompetents at keeping track of cost base and returns, so ignore them. Take care of these things yourself, as you're responsible.

ltr


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> alas what the TD rep is saying above (underlined) is wrong. Really quite shockingly wrong. It's the sort of truly dumb thing many of them say, most of the time.
> 
> the worst thing that could have happened to us investors was the Minister of Finance forcing brokers via the IIROC into functioning as unpaid non-remunerated chartered accountants. Look out below, it's going to be insanity.
> 
> ...


ok, when i make a purchase or sale of a usd denominated security, i enter the buy/sell and the usd amount per share x number of shares

this gives me canadian dollar amount (and yes, i know that cra likes the settle date but i consistently use the trade date since i would have to go back and reenter for each transaction on settlement day and though i don't trade much anymore, it would be a hassle and as you say, i always hear them say it is consistency of protocol that they like) which report

so on capital gains i am reporting both book and proceeds in canadian dollar calculated on the day of each trade

the rep seemed to be saying that i can just use the current usd book (not the usd book for each trade using a different exchange for each trade) converted to cad for the base and the proceeds ... make sense ?

have attached a page from adjustedcostbase.ca as example
View attachment 16066


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> Keep track of your own cost base accurately, and be able to back it up, and ignore what any broker might show on their website, because it matters not.



ltr i beg to differ, i believe it does matter gravely.

it matters because the CRA & provincial tax authorities have mandated the investment industry to record the adjusted cost base of all securities. Although the campaign is more than a decade along - right now i'd roughly score it as 60-70% complete - what it is designed to do is create a national capital gains/loss data base that will include all taxpayers. Rather like the national dividend data base & the national canadian interest data base, that generate our T5 tax slips, which are universally utilized by CRA & taxpayer alike.

soonish, the CRA will be able to assess individual taxpayers on their capital gains from the new national capital gains/loss data, which will be based on broker records.

over time, the broker records will harden & will become more & more difficult for individual taxpayers to challenge. Imagine, in the year 2030, trying to challenge the CRA on the cost base of US securities that were purchased in 5 separate buy transactions across 2012, 2015, 2019, 2020 & 2025!

the CRA will take the broker figure as gospel & the poor taxpayer in 2030 will likely be extremely hard put to contest the broker/CRA assessment.

besides, who wants to invite that kind of trouble? much better IMHO to tweak the broker's records promptly, exactly as mistakes happen, when the broker is more willing to adjust correctly.

therefore i for one do not believe that broker ACBs, or "book values" as they sometimes call them, are anything to be dismissed. On the contrary, they are a new responsibility which we investors should monitor carefully.

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fatcat said:


> ok, when i make a purchase or sale of a usd denominated security, i enter the buy/sell and the usd amount per share x number of shares
> 
> this gives me canadian dollar amount (and yes, i know that cra likes the settle date but i consistently use the trade date since i would have to go back and reenter for each transaction on settlement day and though i don't trade much anymore, it would be a hassle and as you say, i always hear them say it is consistency of protocol that they like) which report
> 
> ...




cat your existing method looks A-1-plus to me

you do realize, i am sure, that you are always using 2 different FX rates for every sale that generates a gain or a loss?

one rate, based on the purchase, was used to calculate the cost in CAD. A different rate for the sale - it's a different date, therefore a different FX rate - was used to calculate the proceeds in CAD.

swing trading - defined as intermittent purchases, usually coupled with intermittent sales of only part of the holding - makes the calculations more numerous, since each swing buy or sell has to be processed into the averaged total holding with its own individual FX rate.

however, none of these calculations are difficult. A 6th grader who is good at math could do them.

put another way, every transaction where shares are bought or sold is a live taxation event. If the shares are US & the investor wishes to render the purchase/sale in CAD, then the FX rate of the day will appy to that particular transaction.

the distressing thing is your broker rep who is mis-advising, not only yourself, but who knows how many other TD clients as well. Who knows where he got his ideas from. They could even have come from his resource person (next level up in supervision) ... i myself have heard some pretty wild fantasies being offered as fact by TD resource persons!

anyhow, it's great that your own system is properly anchored

reforming the big green is a nightmare challenge of biblical proportions though

.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> soonish, the CRA will be able to assess individual taxpayers on their capital gains from the new national capital gains/loss data, which will be based on broker records.
> .


Well, maybe in the future, but as of toady, the individual is responsible, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree on this point.

The broker value for book is notoriously inaccurate. They have trouble with things like Return on Capital, Phantom and Re-Invested Distributions. The values are provided as a service, but in a dispute, the individual is solely responsible.

Every broker, as far as I know, provide a clear indication of this on their web site. If I scroll down to the bottom of the page at TDDI book value, I see the following disclaimer:

*DISCLAIMERS:

Book value is calculated based on the information available to us, unless it was modified by you, or an investment representative. This information should not be used for the purpose of tax reporting, as certain events are dependent on individual circumstances, and may not reflect all the required adjustments.
*

With that, I sure advise people to keep track of their own cost base and be able to back it up. It isn't that difficult a job.

ltr


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> cat your existing method looks A-1-plus to me
> 
> you do realize, i am sure, that you are always using 2 different FX rates for every sale that generates a gain or a loss?
> 
> ...


yes, i do realize what you are saying, my fx varies with each taxable event ... i am religious about entering my buys and sells

i have come to believe that tddi is just too large a ship ... they move at a glacial pace and they don't appear to be able to consistently train their csr's at all since the answers you will get for any question of over basic complexity will vary widely

you are right on the gradual hardening of the system and eventually the brokers calculation will be gospel


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I would add, if you are working within your USD side but eventually choose to transfer and convert to $CDN, you will need to show an fx gain or loss on that transaction as well.

We anticipated spending USD but plans change and I decided earlier this year to close our USD side as part of simplifying things so my spouse would not be left trying to mop up if I were to leave the stage early.

We have a stash of USD and will take our lumps if we eventually need more for travel/expenditures.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> Well, maybe in the future, but as of toady, the individual is responsible, so I'm afraid I'll have to disagree on this point.
> 
> The broker value for book is notoriously inaccurate. They have trouble with things like Return on Capital, Phantom and Re-Invested Distributions. The values are provided as a service, but in a dispute, the individual is solely responsible.
> 
> ...




difficult or not, the "job" is not being done by the vast majority of discount broker clients. To hear my accountant tell it, full-service broker clients are no better.

bref, investors have no clue how to maintain their ACBs. Every discount broker representative will tell you that. They will tell you, with laughter, about all the stunningly weird calls they receive every year prior to tax filing time ...

both false ACBs & false market pricing - as i mentioned, 90% of option positions are falsely priced - destroy performance calculators as well as gain/loss statements. While i would not object to a minor set of errors, i see TD statements as carrying many kinds & classes of errors for large numbers of clients. I believe it is unethical to purvey so much false information to hundreds of thousands of investors who simply don't know any better.

the rawest comment from a TD representative went like this recent one: the representative said that inaccuracies in TD statements do not matter because the majority of TD clients do not understand what they are seeing anyhow. Therefore - he said - it is alright to give these clients false information.

at the same time i am sympathetic to the discount broker industry, because they never asked to have these accounting responsibilities thrust upon them. It will be costly for brokers to build systems & manpower to accurately handle all these peripheral accounting services which they have been ordered to provide. I for one am not sure how this story is going to work out, long term.

as for your "Disclaimers" paragraph, it is yourself that has posted this text in large bold print here in cmf forum. However, in the actual TD statement, the disclaimer is hidden away in very small typefont at the back of each statement, where no client will ever even notice it.

you mention that you "advise people" to keep track of their own cost base ... does this mean you are a licensed financial advisor? a problem for discount broker clients is that they have no advisor. We need to consider how discount clients can be helped to prepare their own financial reporting; & who should be the authority/agency that will teach them; & who will pay for these teachers.


.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> This is a bad sign for how accurate the book/ACB of my BNS385 is liable to be, and I need that one to be right since it's taxable.
> 
> I know I have complained about this to them. Have others? Anyone been given a feel for whether they are taking it seriously?


 TDDI is very bad with ACB/book value.... Several years ago , before i transfered from TDDI to CIBC IE, TDDI showed completely wrong ACB/book value after transfer in in-kind. I called TDDI rep and complained, she agreed and asked me what were my calculations, and after i told her, she just channged numbers on my account . It was in RRSP, so I didn't care


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> bref, investors have no clue how to maintain their ACBs. Every discount broker representative will tell you that. They will tell you, with laughter, about all the stunningly weird calls they receive every year prior to tax filing time


 I worked in a company that sells software to more than 100 MF companies. One time I was involved in project to fix ACB cals, it was competely wrong for all clients and was wrong for ... about 20 years! Thus, all reportings to CRA were also wrong....


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

fatcat said:


> ... capital gains i am reporting both book and proceeds in canadian dollar calculated on the day of each trade
> the rep seemed to be saying that i can just use the current usd book (not the usd book for each trade using a different exchange for each trade) converted to cad for the base and the proceeds ... make sense ?


Not really ... what does the proceeds have to do with the current USD book?

Feel free to straighten out my confusion ... but the way I can see some sense to what the rep is saying is that the USD cost recorded, where one exchange rate is applied to both the cost and proceeds matter.

Even in the simple case of one buy and one sell, each can be at dramatically different exchange rates, never mind if there were years of buying before the sale. Recall that only a few years ago the CAD was at par with the USD, then down to about $.70 or so now. 

Any differences in the exchange for these events seems to me will pretty much guarantee that the CAD CG is wrong.



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> TDDI is very bad with ACB/book value.... Several years ago , before i transfered from TDDI to CIBC IE, TDDI showed completely wrong ACB/book value after transfer in in-kind ...


Yes ... they populate the registered account's cost base with the transfer FMV, from what I recall of the in-kind transfers. Since it was a registered account, I didn't bother having it corrected.

In the taxable account though, the errors I have found are from things like REITs or ETFs paying RoC, where I bought decades ago. If it was bought recently, for the ones I have checked, the RoC is being adjusted properly.

Stocks paying dividends have been correct, from day one.


Cheers


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> i believe the CRA likes settlement date, but they are not going to complain as long as taxpayer sticks to the same system all the time.


I was wondering about this. I generally check the spot rate on Yahoo whenever I execute a trade and make a note of that for currency loss/gain and book value. It is convenient to capture the information then, but highly inconvenient to follow along three days later to check the spot rates on settlement day. I have often wondered how sticky the CRA would get, if it came to it, about trade day vs. settlement day FX rate.

The fact that TDDI *could* capture and regurgitate this information automatically, but doesn't, is hardly surprising.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

So I have a fair slog (more than $100K) in a BNS mutual fund BNS385. I started it with Scotia, bought on a schedule over the course of at least 10 years, then ultimately transferred it in-kind to TDDI where I have held it for several years. All the time, it has been dripping, as mutual funds do, and reporting income of various kinds on a T3. It is now worth at least twice my original investment, but it would be basically impossible for me to work out the actual book value. I believe I have to rely on Scotia or TD to do that for me. I trust the Scotia statements that I used to get, and could, I suppose, find a trustworthy book value at the moment that I moved it to TD, but now, 5 years on, I anticipate that I will have no choice but to use the value TDDI gives, even if it is wrong.

On the plus side, I do not believe I have seen an instance where the wrong book value is less than the actual one in my case. It has always been higher than it's supposed to be on the things I have checked carefully.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> soonish, the CRA will be able to assess individual taxpayers on their capital gains from the new national capital gains/loss data
> [ ... ]
> the CRA will take the broker figure as gospel & the poor taxpayer in 2030 will likely be extremely hard put to contest the broker/CRA assessment


While humble may be a bit pessimistic, I do agree that this sort of thing is coming. The appearance of the T5008 (I think that's the new Statement of Securities Transactions form with all the wrong and useless information) is part of that. I imagine that soon the CRA will in fact take the word of T5008 above that of the taxpayer, and the wrongness of the brokers accounting will be a serious issue, not just affecting the little charts in TDDI.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gardner said:


> So I have a fair slog (more than $100K) in a BNS mutual fund BNS385. I started it with Scotia, bought on a schedule over the course of at least 10 years, then ultimately transferred it in-kind to TDDI where I have held it for several years.


Despite the high MER, this fund has performed very well. Morningstar shows the 10 year return as 5.47%. That's higher than both XDV and XIU.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gardner said:


> So I have a fair slog (more than $100K) in a BNS mutual fund BNS385 ...
> It is now worth at least twice my original investment, but it would be basically impossible for me to work out the actual book value ...


Interesting ... in a taxation thread a while back, where the taxtips web site info was published - some responded that the MF company in a taxable account tracks the cost base for the investor. Others posted that they used sites like http://www.acbtracking.ca/ or https://www.adjustedcostbase.ca/ to do the tracking.

I can't confirm or deny these comments as the MFs I have held are in registered accounts. Over time, they have been converted to ETFs or stocks.


Cheers


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Not really ... what does the proceeds have to do with the current USD book?
> 
> Feel free to straighten out my confusion ... but the way I can see some sense to what the rep is saying is that the USD cost recorded, where one exchange rate is applied to both the cost and proceeds matter.
> 
> ...


right, it is hard to get this right ... if you had multiple buy and sells for a stock, say GE, on your usd side you would have a running acb (total and per share) in usd, it would say 23456.78, but would consist of multiple currency values for the buys and sells which would yield a different cost base than if you sold one day and valued the gain/loss based on the fx for the current usd/acb (23456.78) and for the the proceeds of the sale ... the rep seemed to say that this would be ok and one wouldn't need to worry about all the previous fx's per transaction




> gardner wrote: While humble may be a bit pessimistic, I do agree that this sort of thing is coming. The appearance of the T5008 (I think that's the new Statement of Securities Transactions form with all the wrong and useless information) is part of that. I imagine that soon the CRA will in fact take the word of T5008 above that of the taxpayer, and the wrongness of the brokers accounting will be a serious issue, not just affecting the little charts in TDDI.


right, i suspect we will all just keep our records and go ahead and report exactly what the broker says unless we have a major disagreement over numbers ... the individual will ultimately fall back on the brokers accuracy and say "i reported what my broker told me to report" ... it seems likely that the cra will end up having to rely on the broker and the broker will have to tighten up his acb software and bring it to the level of accuracy for the rest of the account which so far i have found to be very good ... i.e. td seems to keep good track of how much money i have even if they sre sloppy with acb


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

fatcat said:


> right, it is hard to get this right ... if you had multiple buy and sells for a stock, say GE, on your usd side you would have a running acb (total and per share) in usd, it would say 23456.78, but would consist of multiple currency values for the buys and sells which would yield a different cost base than if you sold one day and valued the gain/loss based on the fx for the current usd/acb (23456.78) and for the the proceeds of the sale ...


These differences that will cause drift are why I believe the rep is wrong.

I can understand why the currency conversion adds complexity ... but this strikes me as needing planning/adjusting to one's bookkeeping as well as what info is collected. Once it is understood - the difficulty is manageable, is it not?

It is not the same but it sounds similar to discovering RoC is being paid where the cost base has to be adjusted. With the right formulas/spreadsheet design, it should become a matter of entering a few pieces of data. Or there are the ACB tracking sites that one would hope would handle US stock correctly. :rolleyes2:

Or am I missing something?




fatcat said:


> ... the rep seemed to say that this would be ok and one wouldn't need to worry about all the previous fx's per transaction ...


Unless CRA allows some average to be used over a set period like say a year (which I doubt) or somehow the previous fx's are all but identical - this sounds wrong as well as does not match the articles written up about US investments that I have read.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Despite the high MER, this fund has performed very well.


It has done well since I've owned it. I had a couple other other-the-counter funds at Scotia that I have since flogged off, but this one I've kept. Partly because of the tax liability. Once I retire and my income drops back, I will likely sell it off and buy dividend stocks in its place. For now the tax hit would be too scary.


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## treva84 (Dec 9, 2014)

I've been having an issue in the last ~ 12 hours where after I log in to TD DI it's literally a blank page. Has anyone had this problem?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^


no, not yet. But i have to say that new webBroker is truly a buggy system.

after my initial disappointment i adjusted to the reality & have now become fond of the thing, warts, bugs & all.

they've been working on options presentation. What's really comical is that they'll try out some new thing that doesn't really work well either. Then the client - myself in this case - gets used to the new warty little bug & is coasting along quite happily.

then a month later they "fix" the bug & a different interface appears, except that it also has its own quirks. 

love the one you're with, they always say


PS sometimes just plain Restarting helps. Other times one has to delete bookmarks, clear cache & clear content cookies (difficult & time-consuming to do in chrome)


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

treva84 said:


> I've been having an issue in the last ~ 12 hours where after I log in to TD DI it's literally a blank page. Has anyone had this problem?


I've had it for the last two days. Are you using Chrome ? I tried using Firefox instead of my usual Chrome and had no trouble getting in that way.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

You survived the night of the living dead!
You survived Y2K
But will you survive T+2?
<creepy music and screams>

PS I had to switch to firefox last year when my TDDI pages started acting up in Chrome.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fatcat said:


> right, it is hard to get this right ... if you had multiple buy and sells for a stock, say GE, on your usd side you would have a running acb (total and per share) in usd, it would say 23456.78, but would consist of multiple currency values for the buys and sells which would yield a different cost base than if you sold one day and valued the gain/loss based on the fx for the current usd/acb (23456.78) and for the the proceeds of the sale ... the rep seemed to say that this would be ok and one wouldn't need to worry about all the previous fx's per transaction




alas the rep is quite wrong as we have discussed. This is what happens when brokers are forced to take on accounting responsibilities that are far outside their mandate.

cat you are also filing to the IRS, are you not? so your fate is far worse than it is for us plain vanilla CRA single-jurisdiction taxpayers.

a dual jurisdiction taxpayer would have to run 2 complete sets of books. For multiple purchases - any kind of swing trading - you'd have one set in USD, every buy inserted into the running aggregate. You'd divide the aggregate $$ by number of shares at each step & you'd have the USD cost per share. Exactly as you have said. Easy as pie.

for the CAD books, you'd have to use the FX rate in effect on the day of each purchase. Multiply x USD cost & insert that figure into the CAD running aggregate. Then divide by No of shares to get the CAD cost per share.

the CAD books with all their individual FX calculs are a pain to do, but in reality it's only basic grade school arithmetic. Even a 50-year-old vancouver dude could do it .each:


.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I've noticed in the past 24 hours or so that the cash balance is no longer shown on the holdings screen for a given account. You have to go to the balances summary or open a trade window to see the cash. I don't like it.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

gardner said:


> I've noticed in the past 24 hours or so that the cash balance is no longer shown on the holdings screen for a given account. You have to the balances summary or open a trade window to see the cash. I don't like it.


Must just be you. I can clearly see cash balances for each type of account under Holdings.

Are you using Chrome as well ? Just try a different browser. TD is one of the reasons I keep at least two (usually three) browsers installed on each computer.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

Can't get in via webbroker this morning. But I can get there going through the easyweb "backdoor".


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gardner said:


> So I have a fair slog (more than $100K) in a BNS mutual fund BNS385. I started it with Scotia, bought on a schedule over the course of at least 10 years, then ultimately transferred it in-kind to TDDI where I have held it for several years. All the time, it has been dripping, as mutual funds do, and reporting income of various kinds on a T3. It is now worth at least twice my original investment, but it would be basically impossible for me to work out the actual book value. I believe I have to rely on Scotia or TD to do that for me. I trust the Scotia statements that I used to get, and could, I suppose, find a trustworthy book value at the moment that I moved it to TD, but now, 5 years on, I anticipate that I will have no choice but to use the value TDDI gives, even if it is wrong.
> 
> On the plus side, I do not believe I have seen an instance where the wrong book value is less than the actual one in my case. It has always been higher than it's supposed to be on the things I have checked carefully.





it's posts like this that help us to appreciate the rare genius of Eclectic. He is the only cmffer who not only knows how to do these complicated hybrid cost basings, but he has also posted that he actually enjoys the process.

i'm pretty sure i once saw Eclectic posting that he enjoys the time when the right to claim a reassessment for a prior tax return comes close to expiration. At such times each year, Eclectic said, he looks forward to exhuming his old tax return for the particular year & recalculating the entire thing, looking for a tiny error he might have made that could be in his favour.

for the rest of us mere mortals, the choices boil down to two: (1) keep the drat security in a registered account, or (2) accept the broker cost base.

.


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## treva84 (Dec 9, 2014)

Koogie said:


> I've had it for the last two days. Are you using Chrome ? I tried using Firefox instead of my usual Chrome and had no trouble getting in that way.


Yes, I am using Chrome. I'll try a different browser, thanks.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> These differences that will cause drift are why I believe the rep is wrong.
> 
> I can understand why the currency conversion adds complexity ... but this strikes me as needing planning/adjusting to one's bookkeeping as well as what info is collected. Once it is understood - the difficulty is manageable, is it not?
> 
> It is not the same but it sounds similar to discovering RoC is being paid where the cost base has to be adjusted.


very good call, i have kraft-heinz which i have been thinking about selling and it is the only stock that disagrees with the tdw's data so i called them and sure enough i missed a whole whack of complex returns of capital in february covering all of 2016 ... in theory i need to go back and enter each one of these adjustments since they are all dated in different quarters ... or maybe i don't ???



> With the right formulas/spreadsheet design, it should become a matter of entering a few pieces of data. Or there are the ACB tracking sites that one would hope would handle US stock correctly. :rolleyes2:
> 
> Or am I missing something?


no, here is the fx entry screen at adjusted cost base, you can see the paid version offers easy drop in fx conversion, i use the free version since i trade little and just look it up at xe.com 
View attachment 16098

this shows all the entry options (including options) available
View attachment 16106






> Unless CRA allows some average to be used over a set period like say a year (which I doubt) or somehow the previous fx's are all but identical - this sounds wrong as well as does not match the articles written up about US investments that I have read.


me too and i suspect the rep was getting tired of the call and frankly had no idea what the correct protocol was, he wanted to get me off the phone, these reps vary widely in quality, to understate the situation

another rep on a later call confirmed what we have all been talking about since it is being talked about a lot at the broker ... acb will be gradually shifting to the brokers responsibility

pie said:


> alas the rep is quite wrong as we have discussed. This is what happens when brokers are forced to take on accounting responsibilities that are far outside their mandate.
> 
> cat you are also filing to the IRS, are you not? so your fate is far worse than it is for us plain vanilla CRA single-jurisdiction taxpayers.
> 
> a dual jurisdiction taxpayer would have to run 2 complete sets of books. For multiple purchases - any kind of swing trading - you'd have one set in USD, every buy inserted into the running aggregate. You'd divide the aggregate $$ by number of shares at each step & you'd have the USD cost per share. Exactly as you have said. Easy as pie.


exactly right pie ... and welcome to my nightmare ... i now invest almost entirely for simplicity, i don't reinvest dividends, i avoid certain products (etf's), i favour certain products (etf's that publish pfic data), i avoid opening accounts as if they were contaminated, i endlessly question potential accounts about how they report their data, i send letters asking for confimation of account closure

i can't have a tfsa ... i pay dearly for my usa citizenship


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

fatcat said:


> very good call, i have kraft-heinz which i have been thinking about selling and it is the only stock that disagrees with the tdw's data so i called them and sure enough i missed a whole whack of complex returns of capital in february covering all of 2016 ...


As most of my stuff that pays RoC is already in CAD plus only publishes the RoC by year ... it has not been similar.




fatcat said:


> ... in theory i need to go back and enter each one of these adjustments since they are all dated in different quarters ... or maybe i don't ???


I suppose one would check the exchange rates in the quarters to see if it varies much. If the exchange rates vary - I don't see any way to avoid ... unless one is willing to file numbers one knows is wrong then hope for the best.




fatcat said:


> ... another rep on a later call confirmed what we have all been talking about since it is being talked about a lot at the broker ... acb will be gradually shifting to the brokers responsibility


*sigh*


Cheers


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Koogie said:


> Are you using Chrome as well ?


I am on IE 11 for web-broker.

Incidentally, I just connected and the login screen had an alert on it:



> Warning FYI: Login Issue
> 
> If you see a blank screen after logging into WebBroker, please clear your cache and cookies and restart your browser. If you need help, please call us at 1-800-465-5463.
> 
> We appreciate your patience as we work towards a solution.


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## treva84 (Dec 9, 2014)

gardner said:


> I am on IE 11 for web-broker.
> 
> Incidentally, I just connected and the login screen had an alert on it:


Cool this fixed my issue in Chrome. Thanks!


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

got my kraft-heinz data in order by entering the return of capital accounting adjustment

thinking about this problem more i cannot see how this will work

for those of us who keep seperate usd and cad accounts, all of the data for any given security on the usa side is kept in us dollars only

so the only number tdw can dutifully report to cra is the acb in us dollars which could vary from the cad total considerably if a security has been held awhile and has many trades over periods where the fx has changed a lot, exactly as has happened with cad/usd over the last few years


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Koogie said:


> Must just be you. I can clearly see cash balances for each type of account under Holdings.


Strange. I was calling them about something else and asked if they'd change that and they said that they had and that you had to look at the balances screen to see cash balances now. He said something about it being because the cash figure was not "real time" and they had complaints about it being misleading in certain cases for some reason. Seems weird to me. I always liked seeing it there.


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## Joebaba (Jan 31, 2017)

Hey Gardner,

When I go to the Holdings screen for an account, well above the individual holdings, I see “Cash”, “Investments”, and “Margin”.

Cash does not show down with the individual holdings though.

I can’t say if that had disappeared and/or reappeared, but that’s what I see,

Joe


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Joebaba said:


> I see “Cash”, “Investments”, and “Margin”.


PEBKAC, I guess. There is a little triangle next to the account number that makes this little section appear and disappear. Either I clicked it at some point or the default in IE changed. Anyway, I can click this open and get the “Cash”, “Investments”, and “Margin” box. Duh.


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