# ... my partner hasn't filed taxes since 2004



## Kippah (Jan 28, 2016)

...has a full time job with payroll deductions, last filed in 2004 but has zip in the way of any records (i.e. t-4s etc.). Is there a way to requisition all tax records in order to get her set up with an accountant? She's probably overpaid her taxes over the years, does this money come back to her? There was a period of 18 months where she was not employed somewhere in there. Is voluntary disclosure the best way to approach this problem? 

Just want the community's advice on the best way to do this. She's a procrastinator who's very disorganized -- has dug this hole and doesn't know how to get out. And no its not me, I'm self employed and diligently file/pay tax. Does she need one of those tax lawyers who advertise on the radio?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I've never understood deadbeats who do not file income tax returns. They are a 15-30 minute exercise for simple returns using tax software. However...... no, I don't believe she needs a tax lawyer, especially if she's only been an employee with T4's with no other sources, or perhaps a small amount of T5 investment income. As you suggest, if payroll withholding was done right, the tax returns should be relatively neutral.

What she needs to do is to get hold of duplicate copies of T4s from her employers and any T5s (or T3s) from investment income. Then just go online, download tax return PDFs for each of the years in question and file them all together at one time together with any amount owing. I suspect the CRA bullpen will have a field day of Watercooler humour when this file drops on someone's desk. If the amount owing is substantial, there will be penalties and interest owing, but somehow I think this will not be the case...taking your comments at face value.


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## Kippah (Jan 28, 2016)

Some people have the ability to block out or 'ostrich' stuff like that. Me, I won't be able to sleep until this is dealt with. Thanks for the advice. So no need to frog march her to get signed up under the voluntary disclosure provision? 
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AltaRed said:


> I've never understood deadbeats who do not file income tax returns. They are a 15-30 minute exercise for simple returns using tax software.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Voluntary disclosure is more for people who owe substantial amounts. Being late may not be a big deal, especially if she doesn't owe money. In fact, she's given the government an intrest free loan on the money for more than a decade. 

I believe, though I'm not positive on this, you can actually contact CRA directly and ask for all the forms that they've got copies of and they'll send you the t4's, t5's and anything else they may have. 

It may not hurt to hire an accountant to make sure all eligible deductions are made as, if there are funds owing, the penalties and interest can add up to huge amounts very quickly. If she's entitled to a refund, then she won't get into any trouble.


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## Kippah (Jan 28, 2016)

This is helpful, thank you. Agree about the accountant. One question: If in 2005 & or 2006 she was 'owing' and the rest of the time she was 'owed' would the penalties from those years be calculated to 2016, accumulating penalties? Or would they apply amounts overpaid in 2007 and subsequently and apply that (thereby washing out the debt?) 

Appreciate the information. Will look in to getting records from the CRA.

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Just a Guy said:


> Voluntary disclosure is more for people who owe substantial amounts. Being late may not be a big deal, especially if she doesn't owe money. In fact, she's given the government an intrest free loan on the money for more than a decade.
> 
> I believe, though I'm not positive on this, you can actually contact CRA directly and ask for all the forms that they've got copies of and they'll send you the t4's, t5's and anything else they may have.
> 
> It may not hurt to hire an accountant to make sure all eligible deductions are made as, if there are funds owing, the penalties and interest can add up to huge amounts very quickly. If she's entitled to a refund, then she won't get into any trouble.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

Since CRA would have been getting annual T4 and other reports, presumably with current address info, it is somewhat surprising that she hasn't received some demand letters requiring a return in all that time. 

If she was getting payroll deductions and didn't have much other income (interest, dividends, etc) she may have been fairly neutral or in slight overpayment for some years. However, I believe there is a 3-year maximum beyond which refunds are not given. There's a ministerial (i.e. departmental) discretion of up to 10 years in certain circumstances, but even if that could be applied, any refund from the first 2-3 years would almost certainly be lost.

Did she make any RRSP contributions? Those credits would be sitting there waiting to be applied, and can be carried forward, so if there is a subsequent bad year with taxes owing for some reason, she could choose to apply them to that year to reduce the taxes/penalties owing.

CRA can certainly provide photocopies of various T-slips (T3/T4/T5), at least from recent years; she might be able to just ask them to send the whole kit and caboodle from 2004-onwards.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> If she's entitled to a refund, then she won't get into any trouble.


True, but I think if she was entitled to a refund more than 2 tax years ago she'll be shyte-outa-luck.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

NorthernRaven said:


> Since CRA would have been getting annual T4 and other reports, presumably with current address info, it is somewhat surprising that she hasn't received some demand letters requiring a return in all that time.


The CRA will only send out demand letters if they know she owes money based on the T-slips that she received. If there were no demand letters, she will most likely has refunds especially if all she has are T4s and they don't like to give them back!


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

LBCfan said:


> True, but I think if she was entitled to a refund more than 2 tax years ago she'll be shyte-outa-luck.


Nope. She's entitled to all the refunds for the last 10 years. The only limitations would be on the GST/HST cheque (they generally won't go back more than 3 years) and the Trillium Benefit (and it's old program) as they generally only go back 3 years. Now, mind you, I've had a few clients who got all 10 years back. A rarity but still.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

NorthKC said:


> Nope. She's entitled to all the refunds for the last 10 years. The only limitations would be on the GST/HST cheque (they generally won't go back more than 3 years) and the Trillium Benefit (and it's old program) as they generally only go back 3 years. Now, mind you, I've had a few clients who got all 10 years back. A rarity but still.


I agree she has likely done herself a disservice by not tapping into the various tax credits along the way. IOW, she probably would have had refunds coming. As to the OP's question regarding amounts potentially owing vs refunds coming, the best thing would be to file ALL past-due tax returns at one time. The forms can be found here http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/formspubs/t1gnrl/llyrs-eng.html Whether the PDF fillable forms are available, I do not know but if her tax returns are relatively simple, doing them by hand should not be overly onerous.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Kippah said:


> ...has a full time job with payroll deductions, last filed in 2004 but has zip in the way of any records (i.e. t-4s etc.). Is there a way to requisition all tax records in order to get her set up with an accountant?


I had a co-worker who would run the numbers in Mar, procrastinate and then didn't file the tax return. He was on his thirteenth year when CRA gave up sending letters to demand a return and issued a NOA. There were lots of interest/penalties.

That lit a fire under him where he called the CRA rep as some office in Sudbury to say "I'm working on it but the flood in my basement means I can file three years and the rest will have to wait for duplicate T4's." The CRA rep said he's speed up the process by photocopying *everything* CRA had (T4's, T4s etc.).

When all was said and done ... he had refunds galore but had lost the use of the money for those years plus had little in interest paid for the short period CRA chewed through the paperwork.




NorthernRaven said:


> However, I believe there is a 3-year maximum beyond which refunds are not given ...


CRA did not request one for this guy in 2006. According to my co-worker ... the refunds per tax year were all withing $20 of what he had figured out.



Cheers


*PS*

From what I recall him saying, filing a couple of returns to generate some good faith by proving he was finally dealing with it meant that other than one lecture, the CRA reps he spoke to were helpful.
Cheers


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

If she registers for CRA My Account online, she should be able to see the current status of her account and whether they think she owes them any money or not. You can also download your T4's from the past 3 years from there which would give her a nice start while she waits for CRA to provide the rest of the documents.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

Spudd said:


> If she registers for CRA My Account online, she should be able to see the current status of her account and whether they think she owes them any money or not. You can also download your T4's from the past 3 years from there which would give her a nice start while she waits for CRA to provide the rest of the documents.


The only thing is that I think part of the online confirmation for signing up for the CRA My Account may be to enter a line value from a recent tax return... 

Although perhaps you can get full access through the Sign-in Partner process without needing a tax return value.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Spudd said:


> If she registers for CRA My Account online ...


I thought I'd read one had to have their tax returns up to date to open an account?
Or am I confusing Netfile with My Account?


Cheers


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Whether the PDF fillable forms are available, I do not know but if her tax returns are relatively simple, doing them by hand should not be overly onerous.


An alternative is to download studiotax http://www.studiotax.com/en/?page=2 They have forms/programs going back to 2004. You can print out from it and send via mail.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Retired Peasant said:


> An alternative is to download studiotax http://www.studiotax.com/en/?page=2 They have forms/programs going back to 2004. You can print out from it and send via mail.


+1 Best idea yet probably.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh, I didn't realize you need your tax return to sign up for My Account! That puts that idea out of the running. It's been so long since I signed up I had forgotten they needed that. Sorry for the red herring.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm not finding the part about "needing to be update to date on tax returns".

The CRA pages says:


> Accessing the My Account services
> To get access, you will need:
> your social insurance number;
> your date of birth;
> ...


So maybe one could keep trying until a line that one has a tax return for comes up?

It sounds easier to contact CRA for what they have and use the old versions of StudioTax to get going. The sticky part will be things like charitable donations where unless one has a record somewhere (I record it in a spreadsheet) ... the opportunity may be lost simply because one does not know about it.


Cheers


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

It's been my clients' experience that they won't go back more than 2-3 years for the tax return to sign up for the CRA page.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

NorthKC said:


> It's been my clients' experience that they won't go back more than 2-3 years for the tax return to sign up for the CRA page.


I agree. It would be abnormal to go back more than a year or two.


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