# Shrinking "Bricks and Mortor" chains



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

It already started in the retail landscape, long before Zellers went out of business, and Target came on the scene, only to leave it again within 2 years.

Now it's the electronics shops, Futureshop/Bestbuy that is doing the shrinking in a big way, (est> 1500 jobs lost). Many stores in the Future shop chain are being closed down for good, and the remaining ones which may still be profitable for now, merge into BestBuy as the name plates on the store fronts are slowly changed over.

Staples, and other retail chains, have started that process a year ago. 
In Ottawa, Wallacks (art supplies) has closed down 50% of its 6 stores...and the list goes on as more chains will trim the fat and downsize to stay competitive.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Too be honest, Future Shop closing is something that is long overdue. It seems a little odd that in many places we'd have a Best Buy just a block away from a Future Shop even though they have the same owner. Not really sure why they kept the Future Shop name after the buy out.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

I never shopped at Future Shop because of the pushiness of the sales staff, being commission driven.

Typical dialog:

Customer: Does this PC come with a Blu-Ray?
Salesman: Well, if it does are you ready to make a purchase today?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

They also wouldn't let you meet look at things. I always felt harried out of the store because when you are browsing you have someone asking if they can sell you something every three minutes. I much prefer Canada computers for electronics.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm not surprised. They just downsized their workforce last year, including two of my friends who worked at the distribution center. They were both making $21+/hr, and now they're struggling to find work that pays more than $12/hr.

Even before they were let go they'd been having their hours cut due to lack of work. I knew it was only a matter of time until some of the physical locations were shut down.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Long overdue and speaks more to the ridiculous business redundancy. The two stores shared flyers, prices geographic locations and floorplans. A customer would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two stores if the specific branding was removed.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

'we' as a society have directly contributed to the downfall of brick and motor 
Everybody wants to buy items over the internet now(online shopping)
This is what 'we' want no?
Isn't this more a story about how all of retail buying habits has changed(consumer products).
seems like everyone wants to buy off a lab-top now hence the downfall


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Too be honest, Future Shop closing is something that is long overdue. It seems a little odd that in many places we'd have a Best Buy just a block away from a Future Shop even though they have the same owner. *Not really sure why they kept the Future Shop name after the buy out*.


 .. maybe there was something in the purchase agreement that required BB to retain the name or the business of FS for so many years and now those years are up? 

Besides, the continuous push to online-shopping doesn't help so the demise of these bricks and mortar retailers is not all unexpected ... the sad part is the loss of jobs. It (retail landscape) will only get worst before it gets better.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

dotnet_nerd said:


> I never shopped at Future Shop because of the pushiness of the sales staff, being commission driven.
> 
> Typical dialog:
> 
> ...


Sounds like they hire used car salesman..from Alberta.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

donald said:


> '
> This is what 'we' want no?
> Isn't this more a story about how all of retail buying habits has changed(consumer products).
> seems like everyone wants to buy off a lab-top now hence the downfall


Not sure if that's what we want..but it is what we are getting. 
With the convenience of online shopping, no traffic or parking lot hassles, delivered to your door...sounds like the transition from bricks and mortar is ongoing and here to stay. There is going to be a lot of empty
big box stores within the next 10 years...just like all the retail space that Target left behind.

I'm sure we will hear more and more of the big chains switching to online. I regularly order online at CTC, Home Hardware, Walmart, Loews and H-D, as well as other electronic shops on line. Some even have free shipping included.

Last year, I ordered insulation for my house from Loews online. 

They sent me an email that my order was ready to pickup..or for a few dollars more, it could be delivered.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> It (retail landscape) will only get worst *before it gets better*.


I don't see it getting better. Once most of the big box stores are shut down and those jobs lost, those jobs are gone, gone.

Some of the managers in the stores that are shut down may get assimulated into other stores for now, but the floor staff will be severed looking for other work. Eventually even those remaining stores will
be feeling the economic pinch as costs keep rising. 

Once the commercial leases are up, decisions will be made no doubt, whether the street traffic warrants the individual store signing up a new lease or not. What the big chains like Walmart online (etc) is building now
is huge distribution centers. Some stores have to remain open, especially clothing, shoes, (need to be in a
store to get fitted), drugs and perishable food, but for everything else, you can get it on line with FREE shipping...can't beat that!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

This is capitalism--don't shed too many tears. Bad retailers like FS cut locations and jobs, but others such as Walmart, Amazon, CT, Loblaw, etc. are expanding and creating many more jobs. In the electronics space, there are upstart chains in Canada like Canada Computers and NCIX that are eating FS/BB's lunch. They know how to compete with Amazon. And ordering online isn't a shame either. Online sales employ thousands of people working in fulfillment centres as well as couriers.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ (*carverman* ... *but for everything else, you can get it on line with FREE shipping...can't beat that! *) 

... count me out on that with the way CP is going :biggrin: ... regardless, I still prefer shopping bricks and mortar (whenever I can) and where I would able to "see", "touch" the product as well as enjoy (or not depending on the lineups, service, etc.) the "shopping experience" ... and enjoy some sunshine and fresh city air, however polluted. :biggrin:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Listening to some retail analysts, there was a steep rise in online shopping, but the trend may peak for several reasons.

1) Delivery can be a pain, if there isn't someone sitting at home all day. You never know what time of day the delivery will arrive. 

2) Some companies are finding they are receiving a lot of returns. The customers may only want 1 sweater, but order 5 in different colours to see which one they like and then ship the other 4 back.

This can cause real problems for a retailer at their warehouses, as inventory is kept at a certain level, and if you ship out products below that level the computer system automatically orders more stock. Then you get "customer returns" coming back as well as the new shipments coming and you suddenly have a lot of extra sweaters in the warehouse taking up space and costing money. Online shopping with a liberal return policy wreaks havoc with "just in time" processes.

5) People expect the lowest prices online, or they will buy in a store. Profit margins shrink.

A good example is Keurig coffee Kcups. You can order online, but often find it cheaper in the many stores who offer them as a loss leader, as they are so popular. Our local Canadian Tire moved out a complete bank of products to put in Keurig coffee machines and rows of different kinds of coffee. An employee told us they have 2 employees dedicated to that aisle because it is so busy.

So Keurig either lowers their price to be competitive or loses the online business. The majority of their business seems to be migrating out of online and back into retail stores.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Canada Computers, NCIX, Tiger Direct, Newegg etc have better prices and products

Future Shop has their "exclusive models" which is basically a watered down version that you can't price match...

I've never been to a Best Buy in Canada but I assume it's the same


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I started shopping online with Future shop and Best Buy at least 3 years ago ,recently I needed a cable to do a large data transfer ,I could not find mine so for $31.00 I ordered another one on a Sunday and the next day it was delivered to my door.I don't think these closures are indication of the business itself is losing money but we the consumer have embraced shopping online in our PJS and they don't need a store every 500 meters .This trend is why I bought Fedex last year .


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Listening to some retail analysts, there was a steep rise in online shopping, but the trend may peak for several reasons.
> 
> 1) Delivery can be a pain, if there isn't someone sitting at home all day. You never know what time of day the delivery will arrive.
> 
> ...


1) This is a Canadian problem. Real opportunity for a business here and I wish somebody would step up to the plate.. Maybe Amazon will bring the drones in a few years.

- Canada Post is my preferred service because smaller items can be locked in the community box. Larger items get left at the local corner store that is open late. I rarely have to pay anything on delivery.
- UPS is predatory with the brokerage fees, although you can pay for expedited up front to apparently avoid that scam. After I believe 3 attempts I have to drive 30 mins to some warehouse during bankers hours.
- FEDEX is a nightmare. They charge brokerage fees regardless if you pay for priority, they make 2 attempts, and then they return the parcel hours away without a phone call (at least from where I live)

In the end, Canada Post is cheaper, faster and more convenient for me.

2) I don't buy clothes online but my gf exports/imports clothes online. Of course some other countries have modern electronic mailboxes and denser populations with more warehouses etc, it's still far cheaper to manage return shipping than to pay 2 shifts of Canadian wages in expensive commercial RE just to take returns in person!.. The clothes come with a sticker label and is returned at cheaper business rates.. She shares clothes on social media and then sells to/from other countries from anywhere without touching it (she has family in countries that produce clothes and she works with importers/distributors in other countries) Trendy girls clothes are high margin..

3) Buying online is more convenient unless you enjoy shopping... The main reason to buy something in a store in Canada is if you can't DIY install. Our min wages are high in Canada and stores can easily inflate the price of installation to defeat online shopping. Nowadays I just look up a DIY on youtube.. but this baffles my gf as labour is cheap enough where she is from. She wanted to have a dress hemmed and it was cheaper to get a new dress lol.. This is also why Canadian mechanics will order new parts that could have been repaired in house.. I have to think our economy is going in the wrong direction when nobody wants to pay for labour or repairs anymore.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

this is a good move for best buy as it makes them more competitive

if i were best buy i would put a large banner up that said "we will match amazon, walmart and any major canadian retailer's prices"

online has its advantages but some items you need to actually touch to make a decision

i wouldn't be surprised to see amazon put up demo stores in major cities where you shop in person and then order online at the store or home

home delivery still has too many obstacles that need to be overcome


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

fatcat said:


> this is a good move for best buy as it makes them more competitive
> 
> if i were best buy i would put a large banner up that said "we will match amazon, walmart and any major canadian retailer's prices"


I'm not sure if you are joking or exaggerating, but Best Buy has always (AFAIK) done a price match:
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/help/lowest-price-guarantee/hc1001.aspx

Now, is it advertised in big banners? I can't recall, but I've done the price matching pretty often.

Amazon.ca does have a nice feature that others don't have though, they guarantee the lowest price on pre-ordered DVDs, so if it drops price between your pre-order and its release, you pay the lowest of the drops. It has come in handy pretty often.


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