# Monthly Div Paying Stocks



## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

Any recomendations? 

Something about a monthly dividend. I think it satisfies that urge for semi-instant gratification! I know a couple.. PGH, IPL.

I tried to find a screener that would let me screen for TSX monthly dividend payers but had no luck.

Thanks!


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Most REITs pay monthly. 

I used to own G, it paid monthly as well.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i've long held cpg ... its dividend is controversial as there are those who fervently believe the extensive div dripping is creating/has created a ponzi scheme ... therefore (the doubters claim) the dividend will have to be cut ... a fair number of such doubters here in this forum, i have noticed each:

however i'm not among them; cash flow is positive; debt is not outstripping asset growth; all that being said i also sell call options, swing trade a few hundred shares around the core holding & keep a close eye on things


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## Feruk (Aug 15, 2012)

I hold Carfinco (CFN), Twin Butte (TBE), and a high yeild bond fund (CHB) that pay monthly. Personally, I prefer quarterly dividends for anything with over a ~$10 price. Makes it easier to DRIP with small investments ($5K and under).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Feruk said:


> Personally, I prefer quarterly dividends for anything with over a ~$10 price. Makes it easier to DRIP with small investments ($5K and under).


feruk's point is very good imho. I see no value in monthly dividends vs quarterly.

i've held cpg since it was a unit trust paying monthly income to baying yappy income addicts; when cpg converted to corporation with eligible dividend common shares well prior to the 2011 deadline, i asked why they were keeping up the administrative expense of all those monthly divs; they said their shareholders were used to this & were demanding this


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Shaw (SJR.B) pays monthly. Not a recommendation to buy, just a statement of fact.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

If you want a basket of stocks, I believe that CDZ pays monthly.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

You may find this recent G&M article on mnthly dividend payers of interest.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ortfolio-of-monthly-dividends/article9224547/


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

There are quite a few ishares products which pay monthly.

XDV is one example. 

Then there are a few examples here 

CHE
CHW
WJX
BPF
PZA
KEG
RPI
SRV
GH
LIQ
ENF
BNP
JE
MTL - I think they started paying monthly at the start of this year. 
EIF

I don't hold all the above and nor are they recommendations. There are some Dogs in that list. Some of which have recently cut distributions and others in the list are good performers and have recently increased distributions.


Most reits as others have said. 

There are plenty of options out there. Some smaller riskier companies. Just depends on what you are happy to go with.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> feruk's point is very good imho. I see no value in monthly dividends vs quarterly.
> 
> i've held cpg since it was a unit trust paying monthly income to baying yappy income addicts; when cpg converted to corporation with eligible dividend common shares well prior to the 2011 deadline, i asked why they were keeping up the administrative expense of all those monthly divs; they said their shareholders were used to this & were demanding this


HP don't you realize that a lot of investors (myself included) live off monthly incomes of ETFS such as XTR, XRE and XDV etc. Therefore when you make comments such as "I see no value in monthly dividends vs quarterly dividends" IMHO is kind of inaccurate and mis-informed.

HP I don't mean to pick on you...but I just finished reading that AAPL options thread where you were posting pictures of castles etc. Investors in that thread I'm sure lost a ton of money. What are your credentials anyway? When you say comments such as "yappy income addicts" you're making yourself look bad.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

chill, squashie. U are getting a troll's rep here.


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## CashMoney101 (Mar 6, 2012)

Besides the angle of living off the monthly income of these type of stocks, the other advantage of a monthly payer comes for those using DRIPs. When dividends or distributions are paid out monthly instead of quartlery, this means that your money is compounding 3 times faster. Rolling the distributions into new shares each month means every month you will receive a bigger distribution than the last with a DRIP. I'm sure there is a math wizard around who can calculate how much of a benefit that is, but certainly more compounding does indeed lead to more growth over the long term.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> chill, squashie. U are getting a troll's rep here.


 I'm just on this forum to learn. I'm not a troll....I just believe in telling it like it is. It's just that in that AAPL stock thread you said "I was an ill-informed inexperienced investor with only 2 years experience"... and should just stick to ETFS ....as investing in options and individual stocks like AAPL were beyond my intelligence. I have over 10 years DIY investing experience by the way.

Yet after reading that AAPL options thread where you were continuously posting pictures of castles and horses....and probably losing thousands of dollars at the same time---LOL....you were questioning my financial judgment. If anyone's getting a troll's rep here it's yourself. I better stop interacting with you as I don't want to get banned from this website.

However I have too much self-esteem to let a poster like you bully me....especially when a lot of your financial recommendations have turned out to be disasterous.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

squashie what on earth are you doing wandering around in Gob's AAPL options thread. This is way over your head.

that thread was 100% Gob's thread. From the getgo Gob wisely encapsulated & isolated his risk by opening this tiny options account at IB, far away from his mother investment account which is safely lodged at another broker.

from the getgo i named Gob's thread a marvellous teaching module. It was never intended for options novices & certainly not for voyeuristic & destructive trolls like squashie. The thread was written by a small band of reasonably knowledgeable options players who understood each other very well & who posted to each other. 

my principal role in that thread, as is plainly visible, was to encourage Gob downwards in his put selling. Over & over again i explained how high-priced puts could easily become a cul-de-sac, with crippling margin costs but no escape. But - fiery, passionate & brilliant young man that Gob always was - he resisted all conservative hints & remained bullish to the end.

in the very end, the gigantic profits Gob pulled in over the summer of 2012 would have just about offset the final crash. Gob should have broken even.

but what a ride! and how much everyone learned from Gob's daring! and from Gob's generosity, as well as the generosity of everyone else in that thread! as tennyson the poet wrote, Tis better to have loved and lost/ Than never to have loved at all.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

h_p speaks on a great number of topics, from the very technical to casual chit-chat, with lavish prose, story-telling, and metaphor. Sometimes it's hard to interpret. I've always chosen to interpret it in the most pleasant manner though, perhaps you should do the same and not take it so personally 

To cashmoney's point - he's got a point. The difference between the quarterly compounding and monthly is small, but not inconsquential.

My bigger concern with monthly distrubutors though is perhaps it being an indication that the company is catering to the whims of the yield-chasers and income-needers, possibly at the expense of being prudent with their decision on how much to distribute or not...


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> squashie what on earth are you doing wandering around in Gob's AAPL options thread. This is way over your head.
> 
> that thread was 100% Gob's thread. From the getgo Gob wisely encapsulated & isolated his risk by opening this tiny options account at IB, far away from his mother investment account which is safely lodged at another broker.
> 
> ...


HP...I thought as a member of this forum that your allowed to read every thread on here if you want? I really enjoyed reading that thread. I agree that it was an excellent thread.

Why wasn't that thread intended for an options novice like myself? I admit that I've never even traded one option in my life....but I did learn a lot. I learned that when you sell PUTS and the underlying stock tanks then you wind up losing a lot of money....due to the high amount of leverage that's embedded in the price of the premium. Also the fact that the stock is being put to you at a higher strike price then what the underlying is now trading at. 

As we speak ....APPL is trading at 432.41. It reached a high of 705.07 in Sept 2012. Obviously a lot of posters in that thread lost a lot of money. I don't want to say anymore as I don't want to get banned from this site....I really enjoy being a member of canadian money forum. I notice in that AAPL options thread how you singlehandedly got a couple of posters banned in that thread. I don't want to be the next banned member on your list.


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## Dibs (May 26, 2011)

Squash, for what its worth, I don't think you are a troll. :encouragement:


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Couple points:

-- Squash is clearly not a troll. Or to describe him as a troll is to deprive the term of all meaning.

-- GOB's options thread is, like all things posted on this website, the property of owners of this forum. If GOB wants to exercise ownership, he should create his own blog and post his thoughts there. Consequently, anyone who our hosts deem fit to be a member here may read or post in any thread, while respecting the rules laid out by our hosts.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

And I need to add: we can romanticize what happened, but GOB seems to be yet another example of someone whose overconfidence led them to get burned with options. I'm glad that he only traded small positions, and that he was lucky to have made money on earlier bets to largely offset his calamitous loss.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

portrait of an investor who should *not* be spending any time on options:




> ... the problem is that I have such a low job income that's it really not worth it for me to invest in an RRSP anymore. I only have about 35K in my RRSP. *The only reason that my net worth is mid six figures was through a will inheritance I received two years ago*. I would never have been able to accumulate this kind of money on my own.
> 
> I've had job problems my whole life....but luckily for me I was always very frugal and never had any debt. I don't even have a credit card. Therefore IMHO to put blue chip US stocks in my non-registered account wouldn't be worth it as I couldn't take advantage of the canadian dividend tax credit.
> 
> ...



http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...ks-in-a-bubble?p=170524&viewfull=1#post170524


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't disagree. It doesn't hurt to read, but I doubt most people should be speculating with options.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the issue is not the reading of any thread. Threads are there to teach. Gob's option thread was a celebrity example.

the issue is trolls who abuse others for no reason.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> portrait of an investor who should *not* be spending any time on options:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Why not HP? For all you know I could become the next Lawrence MacMillan or Mark Wolfinger---LOL.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> the issue is not the reading of any thread. Threads are there to teach. Gob's option thread was a celebrity example.
> 
> the issue is trolls who abuse others for no reason.


HP....for all we know that could have been GOB's last $10000. How do we know for sure that he had all these other money making accounts? IMHO I don't view GOB as being such a hollywood celebrity as you seem too?


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Dibs said:


> Squash, for what its worth, I don't think you are a troll. :encouragement:


+1



peterk said:


> h_p speaks on a great number of topics, from the very technical to casual chit-chat, with lavish prose, story-telling, and metaphor. Sometimes it's hard to interpret. I've always chosen to interpret it in the most pleasant manner though, perhaps you should do the same and not take it so personally
> 
> ...


Peterk, you are right, it's best not to take it personally, however when you are personally attacked in a very rude manner like many here have been you will not have any difficulty with interpretation, trust me ;-), the interpretation is more of a challenge when others are attacked.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

andrewf said:


> And I need to add: we can romanticize what happened, but GOB seems to be yet another example of someone whose overconfidence led them to get burned with options. I'm glad that he only traded small positions, and that he was lucky to have made money on earlier bets to largely offset his calamitous loss.



it is impertinent of andrewf to post any remarks about Gob whatsoever, let alone sneers & sarcasm.

GOB was an exceptionally brilliant young man & also a marvellous writer, who left this forum because of frequent abuse & harassment from andrewf. Although Gof felt relatively safe in his options thread, he remained concerned - as he wrote to me - that at any moment the sour, mean, ugly aggression would break out again.

Gob was not the only cmf member to leave because of andrew-the-troll.

trolls are people who pick fights in order to obtain the attention they crave.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

As for the main topic of the thread.... What other options are out there in terms of monthly payers which members may either hold or have held previously?

I personally like the monthly income stream. It may not be a major benefit for me but it does give me a nice warm feeling having a steady stream of additional monthly income. I hate how UK stocks generally pay twice a year with a low interim divi and a high final payment. I much prefer the quarterly system but its nice to have some monthly payers in the mix as well. 

You can't do much without cash flow and the monthly payers can help provide an essential ingredient.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> it is impertinent of andrewf to post any remarks about Gob whatsoever, let alone sneers & sarcasm.
> 
> GOB was an exceptionally brilliant young man & also a marvellous writer, who left this forum because of frequent abuse & harassment from andrewf. Although Gof felt relatively safe in his options thread, he remained concerned - as he wrote to me - that at any moment the sour, mean, ugly aggression would break out again.
> 
> ...


 HP IMHO your getting a bit ridiculous now. IMHO Andrewf is an excellent poster on this site. Why are you blaming Andrewf for the fact that GOB was too much in love with AAPL stock and paid a high price for his APPL bullishness? Why do you call everyone a troll who disagrees with your often controversial opinions?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Squash500 said:


> GOB


chronic & relentless harassment of Gob by andrew-the-troll is strewn across the AAPL stock thread. I know you haven't bothered to read it. But then, you are the kind of person who just shoots off his mouth on an impulse, right.

squash you've been here a few weeks. By your own admission you were near-penniless until inheriting 500k 2 years ago. You did well by keeping the new asset in GICs until last year & reading investment books, but that doesn't make you any kind of knowledgeable investor.

yet you are promenading all over this forum chuffing out pseudo-advice & financial bon mots stolen from the books you've read.

many other newcomers have come here & they have all set about learning in a serious, workmanlike fashion. There are many with expertise in countless areas who have helped them. Perhaps the arrival of jokers like yourself who wish only to show off & pick fights signals a new ice age


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> it is impertinent of andrewf to post any remarks about Gob whatsoever, let alone sneers & sarcasm.
> 
> GOB was an exceptionally brilliant young man & also a marvellous writer, who left this forum because of frequent abuse & harassment from andrewf. Although Gof felt relatively safe in his options thread, he remained concerned - as he wrote to me - that at any moment the sour, mean, ugly aggression would break out again.
> 
> ...


No sneers nor sarcasm, here. I write a bit more plainly than you--maybe you're reading something that was not intended.

I find it very hard to believe that GOB left because of me. I expect it's more that his participation here seemed to consist mostly of discussing AAPL and options thereon. The shine has come off that lately, and maybe he's avoiding talking about it?

HP--as far as I can tell, you abuse others more often than any other person that posts here. I have never lodged a complaint against you other than calling out your excesses. But I am less comfortable with you bullying other members who may not feel comfortable expressing their disagreement.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> chronic & relentless harassment of Gob by andrew-the-troll is strewn across the AAPL stock thread. I know you haven't bothered to read it. But then, you are the kind of person who just shoots off his mouth on an impulse, right.
> 
> squash you've been here a few weeks. By your own admission you were near-penniless until inheriting 500k 2 years ago. You did well by keeping the new asset in GICs until last year & reading investment books, but that doesn't make you any kind of knowledgeable investor.
> 
> ...


 HP...I read the APPL stock thread and it just seemed like a difference of opinion to me. What's wrong with reading a lot of financial books. This reading has saved me a lot of money in financial advisory fees....that's for sure. 

HP...are you a financial advisor by any chance. What is your area of financial expertise?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

andrew you're the black pot in the story. It's you who is the serial abuser. I have a pmm box full of communications from people you've bullied & harassed over the years, starting with financeguru in 2009.

the most recent one was HaroldCrump, just days ago. He's a senior economist, diplomé le long du bras, has taught at US universities, now with an important US bank ... and you, you're a boy-child not even 28, with one undergraduate degree, daring to attack his comments as "nonsense."

too bad you mama never taught you to play nice with the other kids. All they taught you was how to act smart to the grownups.

as for me, if i like someone i'll give them the shirt off my back. And i have. But i don't suffer fools gladly.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I like what both HP and Andrew have to say, but I can understand Andrew 100% of the time and he is usually right. If Andrew is telling you you are wrong, you probably want to rethink your opinion. I guess Andrew comes across crotchety and arrogant, but I'd be more concerned if he spewed misinformation all over the place. 

Now for HP, you also have many good things to say, but I can't tell if you are mostly correct because your writing style is so complex I can't make sense of it. I mostly love what you have I say, but I don't understand why you are so hard on some people here. Some people here are smart money, but most of us are dumb money and we are trying to learn more. Just my opinion, but maybe you should ignore the people you don't respect so you don't inadvertently scare away the people you may be able to help. I have trouble asking you things out of fear you'll tear me up, and you've never said a mean thing to me. Just sayin'. 

I don't like that Andrew and HP fight. It doesn't make sense, you'd work better on the same side.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't like it either. Seems HP decided she didn't like me a few years ago and hasn't looked back.

I'm sorry to hear harold took that comment to heart. I respect what he has to say, even if I sometimes disagree. 'Nonsense' seems pretty mild, though.... Maybe if people called me on it when they thought I was out of line, it would be more constructive than stewing in private. The nonsense comment was a critique of an argument and not an attack on a person. I don't think ad hominem is a valid argument. Nor is appeal to authority.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

I'd have to say that Squash's initial low-blow was perhaps uncalled for. But I'm glad the elephant in the room - the GOB thread - is being re-examined because I have thought about it for a while. I speculate that upwards of $100,000 was collectively lost in that thread, though the actual number maybe about half of that. For instance one of GOB's puts is now costing ~$26,000 to buy back. I contributed to the losses, regardless, but I'm glad for it because it definitely teaches you a lot more than gains do. We live to fight another day, and yes, humble pie is still very helpful.

To the poor OP: I have two monthly distributors which I like; Inter Pipeline which you've mentioned, as well as RioCan REIT.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

To try to put this thread back on trackL

My personal preference is for fewer distributions. This makes it easier to reinvest, track ACB, etc.

I'm not sure why it is necessary for 'income'. Seems like mental accounting for me. Is it too hard to take a quarterly distribution and transfer it to a savings account and budget for that income to last for a quarter?

I don't understand why monthly distributions should be necessary, given some basic budgeting/cash flow management.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

ZDV is a good deal as well:
http://www.etfs.bmo.com/bmo-etfs/glance?fundId=86809

CDN dividend ETF with 52 holdings and 4%+ yield.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Argonaut said:


> I'd have to say that Squash's initial low-blow was perhaps uncalled for. But I'm glad the elephant in the room - the GOB thread - is being re-examined because I have thought about it for a while. I speculate that upwards of $100,000 was collectively lost in that thread, though the actual number maybe about half of that. For instance one of GOB's puts is now costing ~$26,000 to buy back. I contributed to the losses, regardless, but I'm glad for it because it definitely teaches you a lot more than gains do. We live to fight another day, and yes, humble pie is still very helpful.
> 
> To the poor OP: I have two monthly distributors which I like; Inter Pipeline which you've mentioned, as well as RioCan REIT.



argo this is the 2nd time u have raised this topic so it does unfortunately appear that u are seeking a wee drap of blood.

however i did check the broker trading summary since all of my aapl option trades were 2012. I had a 2012 net gain of US $7,699 in aapl options. The taxable gain will be half that.

there were a few small (less than 3-5k each) positive option trades, then a net loss of 11,097 in july 600 puts which i took deliberately at end of december in order to offset big 2012 options trading gains. Then there was also a large single gain of 10,401 from selling aapl calls in a long-life diagonal.

net, it's the 7,699 gain. At no time have i ever owned AAPL stock.

i don't count unrealized or paper losses because these are still-running long-term option positions based on 2015 LEAPs & i will probably be able to make a few positive $$ when all is said & done.

curious, though, why u keep leaning on this issue? in the castle you had less risk than anybody else. Later - at the end of 2012, before going on vacation in hawaii - you were to receive more support & specifically more tax support than anybody else. I don't know your transactions in detail, of course, but imho a party with the option positions you kept mentioning should not, in 2012, have incurred much of a loss if any.


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

Wow as the world turns. Its funny my Grandmother never misses an episode!! 

Thanks for all the recomendations guys. I'm going to throw some of those tickers on my watch list and see what I like. Theoretically there is no difference if a div is paid monthly or quarterly but I like the semi-instant gratification of the monthly div. I currently only have one (ARR - I know I know.. its only 5% of my portfolio and I'm still above water) monthly div payer I wouldn't mind adding another.

Now if Jack and victor could just get along... I'd throw a third name out there for Andrew but its my grandmother who watches it, not me


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

To stay on topic, other monthly paying stocks that I don't think were mentioned include AD, BDT, KMP, and FN. There are also some oil companies like WCP and BNE.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

@humble: You're right, I did not have a net 2012 loss. The 2013 loss will be hard to overcome with similar trades though.

On monthly dividends.. it seems Canada is disproportionately represented by companies who pay monthly. I would wager that we have a higher number of these stocks per capita than any other nation. Perhaps a legacy of the old income trusts.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Argonaut said:


> @humble: You're right, I did not have a net 2012 loss. The 2013 loss will be hard to overcome with similar trades though.
> 
> On monthly dividends.. it seems Canada is disproportionately represented by companies who pay monthly. I would wager that we have a higher number of these stocks per capita than any other nation. Perhaps a legacy of the old income trusts.


It is interesting. 

In Germany I think most payout on an annual basis.
UK is generally twice per year. Small interim payment and large final payment. 
It's rare to find 1/4 payers. Usually majors which are US listed such as BP and release 1/4 results and accounts in $US.

Even ishares don't offer anything with monthly payouts yet in Canada they cater to it. I guess Canadian investors must be demanding when it comes to monthly income streams. The market is clearly there. Maybe that is even tempting some to pay monthly as it could attract a new flow of funds and bid up the price.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I'm glad that he only traded *small positions*, and that he was lucky to have made money on earlier bets to largely offset his *calamitous loss.*


Don't you think the words 'small positions' and 'calamitous' are contradictory?

GOB had been bullish/well informed & *posting on the AAPL thread since late 2011*, when the stock was trading in the $300+ level, but as we all know, it reached $700+ since then, hence more than doubled in less than a year in all that time that he was CMF's biggest AAPL bull! So just because he started the diary section in mid 2012, and [unfortunately] shortly before the stock began collapsing after reaching that superlative $700+ high, it does not mean that he did not have a very profitable year or two before the correction hit. Did he make a big mistake falling in love with the stock & remaining overconfident for so long, and never thinking such a superlative run would end? Sure he did, no debating that, nor the big lesson that he [and many others] must have learned!

You're intelligent Andrew, I will say that, but you are very, very argumentative, disrespectful & thoughtless at times. Further, I have also been a victim of your insults, and also at one point left the AAPL thread because I could not stand your & GOB's constant b1tching & arguments, but sure, he left the forum of his own accord; all he had to do was ignore you, but he preferred to respond to all your arguments & that, too, had been his choice/fault.

Also, true that most of GOB's contributions had to do with AAPL, nevertheless, I learned a lot from him, unlike several others in the diary section for example, that post long personal diaries & simply wait for comments, but do nothing to contribute in return.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

liquidfinance said:


> It is interesting.
> 
> In Germany I think most payout on an annual basis.
> UK is generally twice per year. Small interim payment and large final payment.
> ...


I don't think that investing in Europe is so popular like in NA. Canadian investors demanding monthly dividend probably because many of them live on dividend income...


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm not sure that is true...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> gibor said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that investing in Europe is so popular like in NA.
> ...


Which part? Or both?

In any case, I'm not sure how many Canadian investors are buying for monthly dividends or cash distributions. Most people I am talking to are looking for yield and depending on where they find that - it might be monthly or quarterly.

For example - this thread is the first I can recall specifically looking for a monthly payment. Then too - until buying into trusts, I'd never heard of a monthly payment. Now that some trusts have converted to corporations paying eligible dividends monthly, this frequency is now far more common that it used to be.


Cheers


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> Which part? Or both?


Also didn't get it 

I came along several articles on seekingalpha.com about seekers of monthly dividends for US guys and authors promote our monthly div stocks 
I personally don't really care.. in some cases I'd prefer Q payments (as sometimes Monthly ones - not enough to DRIP even 1 share) and I'd be strongly against any Canadian bank switching to MO payments.... on other hand stock like BBD.B would be better with monthly dividends...


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Argonaut said:


> On monthly dividends.. it seems Canada is disproportionately represented by companies who pay monthly.


I have noticed this too. I can only think of one American stock I owned that paid monthly (ARR) while it's very common among canadian stocks.

I also don't understand the importance of monthly dividends... If you need income each month but can only find stocks that pay quarterly, couldn't you simply structure your portfolio so that you have approximately the same amount of dividends being paid out each month? I mean you know what each stock's dividend payment schedule is and you know what the size of the dividend will be.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

There are many ways around it. You could always withdraw the cash from one quarter of divi's in three equal monthly withdrawals. You could withdraw one year's worth of divi's in 12 equal monthly withdrawals.

I don't know that it would be very prudent to buy stocks for their dividend payment schedule over valuation and such. I suppose it's possible though.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Sherlock said:


> I have noticed this too. I can only think of one American stock I owned that paid monthly (ARR) while it's very common among canadian stocks.


Yeah, you are right, there are just a few... the most popular is O , some others GOOD, LTC, MAIN


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Personallly I think it is best to focus on the compnay rather how frequent they pay their dividend.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

It doesn't really matter, although I prefer quarterly dividends. Less tracking work than monthly, and who wants to wait a year for any cash returns (not me).


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

Cal said:


> Personally I think it is best to focus on the compnay rather how frequent they pay their dividend.


I would say in theory your absolutely right. In practice.. like i said earlier I like the gratification of monthly dividends. Also as someone who does alot of buys and sells the idea of being able to sell a stock monthly without waiting for the quarterly div payment is a plus.


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

Cal said:


> You may find this recent G&M article on mnthly dividend payers of interest.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ortfolio-of-monthly-dividends/article9224547/


Probably a little late.. but thanks Cal.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Argonaut said:


> @humble: You're right, I did not have a net 2012 loss. The 2013 loss will be hard to overcome with similar trades though.



argo if you're suggesting that 2013 is the year when the aapl option chickens will come home to roost, i'll drink to that. In fact i think i'll go find a bottle of aquavit to put in the freezer in preparation for the day or days of trading.

i've written before that some option trades look fine at the time of inception. They generate good profit. But after that, in some cases, things go wrong.

for me the repair strategy then becomes one of rolling out the frayed components, usually at no profit, in order to protect the original profit. One does need enough margin to be able to carry the frayed strands for as long as it takes to roll them to extinction.

my deepest underwater apples are the jan 400 calls of 2015. They're still in the money - they've become 100-delta - but their value has plunged, of course. However i've sold a series of short-term calls against them already, so their cost base has already been written down a reasonable amount. These run almost 2 more years so i can continue to sell st calls. Huge luck would help - the 100-delta means they'd soar - but i'm not counting on this.

join me for aquavit in a salty shot glass? or better yet - calvados - made from normandie apples.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> argo if you're suggesting that 2013 is the year when the aapl option chickens will come home to roost, i'll drink to that. In fact i think i'll go find a bottle of aquavit to put in the freezer in preparation for the day or days of trading.
> 
> i've written before that some option trades look fine at the time of inception. They generate good profit. But after that, in some cases, things go wrong.
> 
> ...


HP I'm not nearly as sensitive to criticism as some of the members on here. However why don't we declare a truce? So I checked out the AAPL 17 JAN /2015 400 Calls and they closed at $84.60. So right now one contract is worth $8460. How much money did you pay for these AAPL leaps?

Even if you don't answer me...I'm going to track this trade myself. I received my approval from TDW to trade level 1 and 2 options on Friday. My margin account will be up and running in a week or so. So HP please don't call me a loser who's not fit to trade options. TDW seems to think I'm capable of trading level 1 and 2 options for now anyway...as they did a credit check on me and everything came out just fine.

I totally realize that by selling calls and doing spreads you're dealing with level 3,4 and 5 level options. TDW told me that to trade level 3,4 and 5 options there's no set time limit to when they'll approve me for that. I'll eventually have to have a verbal test on the phone with one of their options representatives.

They also have to look over my previous options trades at the level 1 and 2 stage as well before they'll let me move up the risk meter so to speak.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Squash500, are you going to trade options? Interesting...let us know how you doing with it... Maybe at some point I will start with options, but for now I'm concentrated on dividend stocks


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

gibor said:


> Squash500, are you going to trade options? Interesting...let us know how you doing with it... Maybe at some point I will start with options, but for now I'm concentrated on dividend stocks


 Yes but I'm going to start really slowly with just buying calls and buying puts at level 1. I'm not going to do any covered calls which is considered level 2. The worst I can do on the downside is to just lose the premium that I paid.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Andrew is most certainly not a troll!

And as for the other bit of critical mis-information in this entertaining thread...




thompsg4416 said:


> Wow as the world turns. Its funny my Grandmother never misses an episode!!
> 
> ...
> 
> Now if Jack and victor could just get along... I'd throw a third name out there for Andrew but its my grandmother who watches it, not me


That's Young & the Restless - not As the World Turns.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Squash500 said:


> Yes but I'm going to start really slowly with just buying calls and buying puts at level 1. I'm not going to do any covered calls which is considered level 2. The worst I can do on the downside is to just lose the premium that I paid.


Very interesting! Did you buy anhy of them already? How do you decide what to buy? Did you get any training/course?


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

gibor said:


> Very interesting! Did you buy anhy of them already? How do you decide what to buy? Did you get any training/course?


 Not yet. My margin/option account won't be activated until next week. I've done some reading on options....I've read books by Michael Thomsett and Mark Wolfinger and also the Montreal exchange option guide.

IMHO investing in options is at least a 1000 times more difficult then investing in ETFS. That's why I've never done it before--LOL. What's interesting is that if you would have bought AAPL puts (level 1) in Sept 2012 you would've made an absolute fortune depending on how many contracts you bought. It would've been a total contrarian play but it would have been a success.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Andrew is most certainly not a troll!


Thanks, FP. I don't think I am, either, but I don't have an outsider's perspective.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Squash500 said:


> I received my approval from TDW to trade level 1 and 2 options on Friday. My margin account will be up and running in a week or so. So HP please don't call me a loser who's not fit to trade options. TDW seems to think I'm capable of trading level 1 and 2 options for now anyway...as they did a credit check on me and everything came out just fine.



squash at no time did i ever say you were a loser. As toronto.gal has already requested of you, would you please be kind enough to stop putting false words in our mouths.

what i do believe is that you do not yet have enough investment experience or practical knowledge to trade options. Here is your investing history, in the linked post below.

this forum is known, even to the OIC in chicago, as an unusually helpful options group. Time & again, all option trading cmf members have gone far out of their way to offer views, data & info to others. Unfortunately squash does not seem to be interested in learning anything about options. His behaviour appears to consist mainly in chasing after members in order to provoke arguments.

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...-Paying-Stocks?p=174092&viewfull=1#post174092


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

To tell the truth I was very surprised to hear that Squash500 gonna trade options... I had impression that he is buying dividend ETFs because buying individual dividend stocks is risky for him... Probably I was mistaken....


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

gibor said:


> To tell the truth I was very surprised to hear that Squash500 gonna trade options... I had impression that he is buying dividend ETFs because buying individual dividend stocks is risky for him... Probably I was mistaken....


I am surprised that he is planning to buy options instead of selling them.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

As I said in the options thread....I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I've decided to cancel my TDW option/margin account. HP is 100% right...I don't have the practical knowledge (especially the advanced math skills needed) to trade options successfully. I'd rather admit that I don't have the aptitude to trade options now before I wind up losing thousands of dollars in bad options trades.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor said:


> Also didn't get it  ...


Apparently not ...




gibor said:


> ... and I'd be strongly against any Canadian bank switching to MO payments.... on other hand stock like BBD.B would be better with monthly dividends...


I doubt any company that's already setup to pay quarterly is going to switch. I can't see there would be enough proof of an advantage to justify the costs of changing the schedule. 




Sherlock said:


> ... I can only think of one American stock I owned that paid monthly (ARR) while it's very common among canadian stocks...


Compared to the US market - I'll take your word for it.

For the Canadian market, I'm not so sure. To me, "very common" would have to mean something like half of the payers were monthly. I easily have four times as many investments that pay quarterly or some other schedule.

When I look at the monthly payers I have - except for one I'm not sure the history of, they are all trusts, former trusts or split shares.


Of course, without a complete list - it's hard to tell for sure how the numbers breakdown. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

perhaps this omnibus thread is as good a place as any to introduce a note that may or may not be OT.

yesterday while browsing CC's blog i found this link to Steadyhand's current presentation for clients.

http://steadyhand.com/forms/2013/02/15/transcript 2013.pdf

vancouver-based steadyhand is known as a mutual fund company offering rock-bottom value to clients in the form of well-performing managed funds with thrifty MERs averaging somewhere around 1% (ok might be a tad higher but still far below the average mutual fund's 2-2.50% for an equity fund.)

there are only 5 funds - just about all anybody needs - plus a new one.

the presentation is light & easy on the eye, but there's something for every stripe of investor. My takeaways: the stampede for dividend yield is looking overdone, while global investments are beckoning with - here's the twist - an emphasis on cyclical resource stocks.

steadyhand's new Founders' Fund will invest in all 5 of the SH funds, in changing allocations that will be actively directed & managed by SH president Tom Bradley. I haven't yet investigated to find out if this means an extra layer of management fees, ie one to be charged by founders' fund itself, the others built into the 5 component steadyhand funds. Somehow, since it's steadyhand - known for upright conduct - i would be surprised & disappointed if this were the case.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

@HP,

This might answer your question. 
http://www.steadyhand.com/funds/fees/

One Simple Fee

Each Steadyhand fund charges One Simple Fee, which is a fixed fee that includes the fee for our services as manager and all of the fund's operating expenses. In essence, this fee is the same as an MER. The exception being that in our case, you know what the fee is in advance, before you invest. The table below lists each fund’s One Simple Fee along with its category average MER.

Steadyhand Fund	One Simple Fee	Category Average MER*
Savings Fund	0.65%	0.82%
Income Fund	1.04%	2.16%
Founders Fund	1.34%	2.42%
Equity Fund	1.42%	2.69%
Global Equity Fund	1.78%	2.70%
Small-Cap Equity Fund	1.78%	2.66%
*Source: globefund.com (as of December 31, 2012)

Also, here are their benchmarks:
"That said, if our funds were categorized according to the benchmarks of the asset classes and regions in which they invest, the best representations would be as follows:

Savings Fund - DEX 91 Day T-Bill Index
Income Fund - 75% DEX Universe Bond Index; 25% S&P/TSX Composite Index
Equity Fund - 60% S&P/TSX Composite Index; 40% MSCI World Index
Global Equity Fund - MSCI World Index
Small-Cap Equity Fund - 80% BMO Small-Cap Blended Index; 20% Russell 2000 Index"

For the above, you could use XBB, XIC, VXUS and a few others as substitutes.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Does anyone think Steadyhand is capable of the 1% alpha they would need to generate for investors in their funds to break even with their benchmarks? Is it a gamble worth taking?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Over time, my answer is no but if working with them helps people realize their retirement dreams, it is money well spent.

Andrewf, you don't use an advisor do you? Did you?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Nope. But I have seen people close to me get taken by their ilk. Several times. I'm sure there are good and decent 'advisors' out there. But the culture of the industry does not support behaviour consistent with those people.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

My guess is you could put most advisors to shame. My wife got taken (before I met her) for almost 3% MERs with IG. Needless to say, those days are over. 

I do think a small revolution is underway. Having Vanguard Canada helps.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

And I'm not opposed to genuine advisors being paid fees for providing a service. Actual planning advice--not just boilerplate MF asset allocations with once a year 'checkups' (otherwise known as RRSP shakedown season).

It's a shame that fee for service (and not as an ongoing % of AUM) is such a rare beast in this country. It really needs to change.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Almost every other industry and service provider, that adds value to customers, is pay for service and pay for performance. The financial industry at large is an anomaly. I need to write a post about that.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Does anyone think Steadyhand is capable of the 1% alpha they would need to generate for investors in their funds to break even with their benchmarks? Is it a gamble worth taking?


They provide decent service for a much lower price than most financial advisors. You can call up, set up an account and get some basic financial advice which is all most people really need.

They don't run their own funds, so I'm not really sure what they do other than marketing and answer the phones, but regardless - more Canucks should use their service.


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> It's a shame that fee for service (and not as an ongoing % of AUM) is such a rare beast in this country. It really needs to change.


I think that's because there's a lot of mystery around fee for service planning, specifically about the cost. What exactly are you getting, and for what price? 

With the bank, or employer-sponsored plan, it's easy. The average investor doesn't seem to mind paying 2% MER because they don't have to write a cheque for it; they never see it. 

But try telling them to pay $1,500 to $3,000 up front for a fee only financial planner to get them on the right path and they'll look at you like you're crazy.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

My Own Advisor said:


> One Simple Fee ...



thankx MOA, close but not quite what i meant each:

the steadyhand funds are not house funds. All 5 have outside portf managers who have to be paid. So each of the 5 comes with a built-in MER of its own.

the Founders Fund is a composite built from the 5. The FF service to investors is that it's tom bradley who is doing the allocating & rebalancing among the 5 funds. For this, presumably, he should be paid & is being paid. The question is what & where.

there are a handful of other houses offering good quality financial management at what, so far, seems like a reasonable price for investors who find that they do benefit from personal human contact & advice.

steadyhand fills this bill. So does couch potato guru dan bortolotti who recently partnered with financial planner MPL to offer planning & monitoring services for fees that - as best i can recall - appeared to be in the same ball park as steadyhand's. 

the products offered are not the same, but the platforms - quality financial management at value-priced 1-1.50% fees - are similar.

respected wealth manager jarislowsky & fraser also offers a small suite of core mutual funds with MERs ranging from .55-.75% for retail investors. Change may be in store now that founder jarislowsky has recently retired, but to date the jarislowsky mutual funds have always been a spartan, low cost, hi-value operation.

somewhere in the cmf archives is a thread for people who are looking for trustworthy, reliable fund management at less than the 2.50-3% fees charged by traditional mutual funds. These 3 companies have offerings in this class. There are probably a few others. I guess after that the plunge goes all the way down to DIY etfs or (gasp) DIY stock & bond selection (quel horreur) ...


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> steadyhand's new Founders' Fund will invest in all 5 of the SH funds, in changing allocations that will be actively directed & managed by SH president Tom Bradley. I haven't yet investigated to find out if this means an extra layer of management fees, ie one to be charged by founders' fund itself, the others built into the 5 component steadyhand funds. Somehow, since it's steadyhand - known for upright conduct - i would be surprised & disappointed if this were the case.


IIRC, the Founders' Fund has one all-inclusive fee. I had to look up the MER from this page, it is 1.34 percent. It is not a bad at all as far as wrap funds go.

http://steadyhand.com/funds/

Later: I found a blog post explaining that the Founders' Fund MER is inclusive of fees charged by the component funds...

http://steadyhand.com/inside_steadyhand/2012/09/13/founders_fund_fee_clarification/


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## dogleg (Feb 5, 2010)

Is it safe to post here? I am wondering about investment in a so-called 'legacy stock' like PG . Given the tax considerations for U.S. stocks how efficient is it to own a dividend payer like PG that pays about 2.9% .


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

dogleg, do you intend to buy in a TFSA, RRSP or non-reg?

RRSP: there's no problem holding PG. TFSA, you'll lose 15%*2.9%=0.45% per year due to withholding tax. In non-reg, 2.9% is fully taxable as foreign income (taxed like interest).


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## dogleg (Feb 5, 2010)

Andrewf: Thanks. Exactly , I understand the arithmetic ; I guess the way I needed to put the question is, instead of buying the age -old legacy PG stock what is its Canadian equivalent?


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

dogleg said:


> I guess the way I needed to put the question is, instead of buying the age -old legacy PG stock what is its Canadian equivalent?


There is none. Just hold it in your RRSP.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Yup, RRSP it is.

Would it ever make sense to hold age-old blue chippers like this one, non-reg., when the RRSP is collapsed? 
Or move PG to RRIF I wonder and sell off a few shares as required to wind RRIF down?

I guess you can't take it with you...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> Would it ever make sense to hold age-old blue chippers like this one, non-reg., when the RRSP is collapsed?
> 
> Or move PG to RRIF I wonder and sell off a few shares as required to wind RRIF down? ...


I'm not sure about the RRIF, but as the RRSP collapses - the only options are the TFSA (if one has contribution room), a non-registered account or selling for cash. If one still likes the business prospects - even where the destination is a non-registered account, I can't think of good reasons to sell.

The only risk of not selling, is the stock drops in the future when you want/need cash. 

As the withdrawal is taxed as income, as I understand it, there's no income tax difference for either option.


Now if one's crystal ball tells them it's at a high now and will drop in the future (or there's better investments available), that's different. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I never believed tax should be THE motivation for investing. Taxes need to be considered, but a good investment is a good investment - not that I think PG is a good investment at these prices.


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## dogleg (Feb 5, 2010)

Sampson said:


> I never believed tax should be THE motivation for investing. Taxes need to be considered, but a good investment is a good investment - not that I think PG is a good investment at these prices.


I agree. Maybe BCE is a better bet but it is high too. However comparing it to PG is a stretch- hundred or so billion difference in cap. value.


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