# CPP pay raise



## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

Woohoo ! Got our 1.9%. Nice to get something, too bad it's not even close to covering increases in necessities


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Contrast that to the Ontario teachers being asked to accept 1%.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> Contrast that to the Ontario teachers being asked to accept 1%.


Ontario teachers are among the best paid in the world along with generous benefits. But then, I thought it was all about the children.

ltr


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> Ontario teachers are among the best paid in the world along with generous benefits. But then, I thought it was all about the children.
> 
> ltr


I don't disagree like_to_retire but whatever pay someone is paid, I find it hard to say that they should agree to less than inflation. The problem as I see it with teachers pay is the same one I see with many union businesses. It has been easier for a company or the government to give in to union demands in the past and then just pass on the cost to the consumer, than to stand up to them and say no, you can strike all you want.

Once you start paying someone a given amount and I am sure this is true of whatever you yourself are being paid like_to_retire, it becomes an 'entitlement' and you cannot then try to take that away without incurring a major fight on your hands. So it is the sins of the past which are now being paid for. Offering someone less than the rate of inflation is in fact asking them to take a pay cut.

Some aspects of the teaching disputes are about the children and some are not. It isn't just about one or the other although both sides obviously like to say, it's all about the children. Poppycock.

As for how well our teachers are paid, have a look at this: https://www.businessinsider.com/teacher-salaries-by-country-2017-5

I'm not a teacher and count none in my family or friends, so I have no axe to grind on the issue at all. I don't have any kids still in school either. I'm probably about as neutral as I could be. But when I read this OP and then think about Ontario offering 1% to teachers, not even the rate of inflation, I see that as wrong. The time to have controlled teachers salaries more was in the past when they were asking for more than the rate of inflation every time their contract ended. 

The teachers are being asked to consider Ontario's debt before asking for their raise. Where did that debt come from? I see it as having come from giving in to unreasonable demands for pay rises in the past, for the part of the debt that is attributable to teachers salaries. So basically, the government is saying, 'we gave you too much in the past and now we are in debt as a result'. Having made that mistake in the past, we now want you to correct it for us by taking a cut in pay.'
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-...ince-s-debt-before-asking-for-raise-1.4629949

Who do you know in any job that would say, 'oh yeah, I'm fine with that, you're right, you paid us too much before.'


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Kinda hard to stomach when you read this kind of thing don't you think.
https://www.blogto.com/city/2019/10/doug-fords-government-staff-are-getting-big-pay-raise/

I get 14%, you get 1%, now smile and say 'thank you Mr. Ford.'


----------



## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

I work in the public sector in BC and find wage increases are never great. Our last raise was 0,0,1.5% (3 year contract). This time only because under ndp will be 2,2,2. I know teachers in BC are paid less than in ontario. But i agree getting a raise close to inflation is fair, although you could argue teachers are overpaid when factoring in their pensions. Yes the Doug Ford pay raises are disgusting.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Again, I am not particularly on the teacher's side in Ontario's current situation. I think there are several other factors that get overlooked though. 

First, we have had generations of what is decent quality education available to our children and as a result, I think the public overall now tends to take that for granted. So we take teachers for granted. If you look back to say 1900, in a town, the leaders looked to for advice were our church ministers, our doctors, our teachers. They were the people with an education and their knowledge was looked to by the public for advice. They were considered to be and in fact should still be seen as a Profession, like a doctor or lawyer. Nowadays, I don't think they are seen in that same class and so people are much more willing to say, 'why should they get paid more than me.'

Second, people care about only what they care about. In the current dispute, the teachers actually have the majority of the public on their side and that's unusual. But why do they have the public's support this time? Because some of the issues are class size, full day kindergarten, extracurricular activities, etc. These are all issues that the public see as affecting them personally. If the only issue was teacher's pay offer of 1%, the public would be just as likely to say, 'yeah, give them 1%, I don't care, it doesn't affect me personally.'


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> Ontario teachers are among the best paid in the world along with generous benefits. But then, I thought it was all about the children.
> 
> ltr


Children don't pay union dues


----------



## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Contrast that to the Ontario teachers being asked to accept 1%.


I'd be all over 1% of big pay, big vacations and big benefits, including pensions. 1.9% of a pittance (That we paid into) is about $12/month for me and $10 for the wife. I don't have a problem with the teachers getting the same $12/mth though if that's what they want ?


----------

