# rust protection + extended warranty



## bootsie (Aug 30, 2010)

What are people thoughts on rust protection + extended warranty for a new car.

The extended warranty would be about $2000 and is for 6 years bumper to bumper.

The rust protection is $500 or so and is this electronic gizmo that sends a current .. They dont put the goop on anymore i guess?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I won't comment on the extended warranty but we did have a lengthy discussion on rust protection a few months ago. Please do a search in the forum and you will find that thread. I think most agreed krown or rust check were the best.


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## Sustainable PF (Nov 5, 2010)

Most new cars don't need rust protection for the first 7 years or so IMO. When buying our new car I researched this quite a bit and found that aside from car dealerships and rust protection companies, not too many people believe the underside of your car will erode quickly. 20 years ago yes, but today the technologies and materials are much more rust resistant.

We did not go for an extended warranty. Instead we bought a historically reliable vehicle (Subaru) If we were buying a Toyota we may have considered it.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

bootsie said:


> ...
> 
> The rust protection is $500 or so and is this electronic gizmo that sends a current .. They dont put the goop on anymore i guess?


The electronic gizmo is snake oil. It does not work, it cannot work, it would break too many laws of physics and chemistry for it to work. They are really selling you insurance against corrosion. But market surveys showed customers would not buy corrosion insurance unless they thought they were also getting something that actually protects against corrosion. So they have a little black box made in China for less than $5, screw it to the frame, charge $100-$250, and call it a rust prevention system. And if you will look into the fine print of the corrosion insurance I think you have to have "penetration" before they will actually pay out. So you aren't even getting good insurance.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

bootsie said:


> What are people thoughts on rust protection + extended warranty for a new car.
> 
> The extended warranty would be about $2000 and is for 6 years bumper to bumper.
> 
> The rust protection is $500 or so and is this electronic gizmo that sends a current .. They dont put the goop on anymore i guess?


Don't buy anything from the dealer; they are ripping you off. THe salesman will make you feel all good to sell and even sound fancy: "electronic gizmos"

If you're in Toronto, there's a guy on RFD that does rust check for $79, this was for a SUV. Also, they can do that black looking tar stuff for around $300. 

Don't buy extended warranty. It's the dealer's job to get you to spend as much money as possible; it starts with upgrades on the car. Then after you sign, they put you into this second room, where they try and sell you warranty. New cars already come with an average 5 year warranty so do you don't really need it? SOme extended warranties are like $1200-$3000. This is gravy for the dealer. They would not sell you something they could not make large margins on. 

Remember anything the dealer quotes, you can get it cheaper from a private mechanic shop. 

I recently bought a new car (regret should have bout used to save) and I dummied the sales guy when he lied and tried to scare me into buying rust check and extended warranty. I made him look so stupid. 
Salesman=slime.


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## bootsie (Aug 30, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Don't buy anything from the dealer; they are ripping you off. THe salesman will make you feel all good to sell and even sound fancy: "electronic gizmos"
> 
> If you're in Toronto, there's a guy on RFD that does rust check for $79, this was for a SUV. Also, they can do that black looking tar stuff for around $300.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your help... confirmed what I thought

Whats is "RFD"? I am in Toronto and at minimum will do an after market application of some rust product.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

And do it yearly. With all the road salt you guys use, cars get eaten away very quickly. ALL cars. They are metal. Don't believe all that mfr bs about newer cars not needing it. It is simply not true. Car are made of steel. Steel rusts. Put any car on the hoist and look underneath and you will see rust developing after only 1-2 years. I do the krown/rust check treatment every year. This is the best and most economical way to PREVENT the rust from developing and keep the body in good shape. It will help your trade in value a bit if the body isn't all rusted out, or rusting in the usual places, fenders, rocker panels, underneath, etc.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

bootsie said:


> Thank you for your help... confirmed what I thought
> 
> Whats is "RFD"? I am in Toronto and at minimum will do an after market application of some rust product.


Red Flag Deals. 

Here is a post I made back in Nov 2009, when I signed for my new suv. 
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/rust-proofing-dealer-813194/

Inside the thread, it was recommended I go to the place listed here, it's in Toronto:

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/2010-rfd-rustproofing-group-buy-no-need-wait-50-people-789514/

It's $96.00 now, HST included. 

Many people from RFD go their rust check done there and everyone said service was great and they did a good job. I got mine done there too. - Great price, and a lot cheaper than the dealer quoted me $800 for rust check..........


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Sounds like a great deal!

I would mention though, that the expensive dealer treatments are intended to be a one-time deal for the life of the car. The annual krown treatments are a different process and are intended to be annual, thus the lower cost.

I've known people who had that expensive dealer treatment and it is not too bad. After 10 years you will start to see rust in spots like the post between the windshield and driver's door, but it does seem to work.

I still choose the annual application because it's cheaper. What if I don't keep the car for 10 years? It could be written off tomorrow and then I've lost $800. If I've done a $150 (or cheaper according to jungle's link) krown treatment then that is all I lose if I get a new car sooner than expected. $800 is a lot to fork over in one shot. But to be fair I think the process is pretty good.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We have a 2008 car and we just got the undercoating (tar stuff) done for $130 including tax .The dealership wanted $800 for theirs on our 2010 we bought in August(had 20k on it and a year old saved $16,000 off sticker price of the new 2011!) ,we rarely keep a car over 4 years so don't bother with the extra warranty.We also drive less than 20,000km a year BETWEEN the two cars.


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## bootsie (Aug 30, 2010)

marina628 said:


> We have a 2008 car and we just got the undercoating (tar stuff) done for $130 including tax .The dealership wanted $800 for theirs on our 2010 we bought in August(had 20k on it and a year old saved $16,000 off sticker price of the new 2011!) ,we rarely keep a car over 4 years so don't bother with the extra warranty.We also drive less than 20,000km a year BETWEEN the two cars.


Yes good points all, especially about how much you invest up front. As a matter of fact not sure we will keep the car longer than 6 years. Probably another reason not to invest in dealer rust protection (except for the annual aftermarket). The local mechanic seems to be a good egg he hasnt ripped me off so i would trust him if something ever went wrong with my auto after the base 3yr bumper to bumper warranty expired.

Thnx all and happy holidays


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Sustainable PF said:


> We did not go for an extended warranty. Instead we bought a historically reliable vehicle (Subaru) If we were buying a Toyota we may have considered it.


Are you sure you didn't reverse this? I would have said if buy a Toyota, no extended warranty needed, buy a Subaru and it's probably a good investment.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Depends what Subaru year/model, but I'm guessing the Toyota crack was a joke or a poor perception from the news. I've been perusing the Subaru forums and most people never get any significant warranty work done. Turbos are generally less reliable too. Vast contrast to the BMW forums for example.

As far as warranty it depends on the year/model IMO. Nobody seems to recommend owning a German car out of warranty. I find warranty to be a restriction on reliable cars as only approved shops can change the oil, only approved $$ parts can be used etc. The auto companies have carefully calculated a significant profit into extended warranties so you're paying for peace of mind

As for the rust yes most cars come with galvanized steel frames now but that doesn't mean rust proof. My ski doo trailer was entirely galvanized and it has rust where parts are bolted/meet after a few years as that is where it starts. We live in the land of salt saturated roads.. I wash my vehicles when it warms up (chemical reactions speed up with the temp) and I leave my car outside in the cold. As someone who works on his own car, it's so much easier to loosen bolts with the annual "goop" rust coating. I don't believe for a second that "new cars won't rust" and I don't think there is any alternative to annual "goop" rust coating and washing the salt off your car

There is no easy 1 solution. The electronic current devices work wonders on ships and pipes but it isn't proven to work as well on cars and/or may not be worth the investment. Depends how long you're keeping the vehicles, what temps you drive in etc

A good hand wash/wax and rust coating in the fall and a wash/wax in the spring goes a long way IMO. An auto carwash during the winter is about the worst thing you can do. Anything else is bonus

If you're buying a new car, one thing I would get is the 3M "clear bra" to protect your paint from chips. It's the same as what people put on iPhones. Works wonders


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## randomthoughts (May 23, 2010)

The theory behind galvanizing and electric current devices is sound. Oxidation is the loss of electrons from molecules. If you can supply the electrons from something connected to the metal (by zinc, which oxidizes more easily, or by a current), then in theory you should be able to inhibit rusting until your zinc oxidizes away or your batteries run out.

However, I think it works in ships and pipes because there's something available to complete the circuit - in the case of ships, the ionic salt water of the ocean. Pipes are grounded. So I'm not sure if it'll work with cars. My trusted mechanic friend, however, does believe in them. I haven't put one on my car.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

If you follow a "buy one car and drive it into the ground" approach, which is what I do, then rustproofing may not be necessary. By the time the body and frame have enough rust to become dangerous, it's usually more than 10 years old anyway.

I drove my Honda Civic in Vermont (lots of salt on the roads) for 10 years and 400,000 kilometers, no rustproofing. The body had some rust and there was rust on the frame, but I sold it to a family who drove it another 160,000 km.

I currently drive a 2005 Toyota Matrix, no rustproofing; there are a few spots of rust showing on the body but the frame is good and I'm assuming I'll be able to keep this car for at least another five years. I don't mind rust spots on my car; appearances have never concerned me and I don't bother repairing most dents and dings either (my car has several of those). I perform all scheduled maintenance religiously, but I treat the body with neglect. My car is one of the few on my street that has never been broken into, and I suspect my neglect is one of the reasons why.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I drive a 2004 Acura TL. I bought it used and don't know what the previous owner did, but for the 3 years I've owned it I've driven it almost every day in the winter in the salt and it has no rust on it (I mean on the paint, of course there is a little rust underneath). I have never rust-proofed it, but I do run it through a car wash every few weeks. I guess it depends on the car, some cars such as Acuras are just better built and don't rust as easily. Other cars such as Hyundais and Mazdas are known to rust. I watched a documentary a few months ago about how they build the BMW Z4 and they showed all this stuff they do during the build process to ensure the car won't rust. I think the more expensive the car the more effort they put into building it rust-resistant but that technology is slowly trickling down to cheaper cars too so that even an economy car built today is not gonna rust like a car built many years ago.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

bootsie said:


> What are people thoughts on rust protection + extended warranty for a new car.
> 
> The extended warranty would be about $2000 and is for 6 years bumper to bumper.
> 
> The rust protection is $500 or so and is this electronic gizmo that sends a current .. They dont put the goop on anymore i guess?


It's interesting to read the comments on rust protection. I maintain my
own vehicles as much as I can, and with a 1998 Dodge Dakota truck that
I plan on keeping for a few more years, rust protection is crucial in a high
salt environment where I live. I had the truck rust proofed by the dealer
when I bought it new, but didn't go for the extended warranty, as most
wear and tear items are not covered by extended warranties and you end
up paying for parts and labour anyway.

In my case, the rust application has kept the body rust free, but places 
where the rust protection was not applied..transmission cooler lines and
brake lines are vulnerable to rust and can develop rust perforations.

This happened on the transmission cooler lines in front of the radiator
just under the splash pan in front. The salt spray from the road and constant
moisture caused a pin hole perforation on one of the lines which started
to leak when running. I had to take it in to a tranmission place which
replaced the area of the lines with rubber hoses and then recommended
a fluid & filter flush because the lines had to be opened and cut to
fix the leak. I would have rather they had replaced the steel lines, but
they didn't and gave me a 2 yr guarantee that they wouldn't..so far
5 years later, no leaks.

This year the front steel bumper had a rust bulge on the outside because
salt got INSIDE on one corner. A new bumper can be several hundred installed,
I repaired the bumper and had it sprayed on the inside to make it last longer. 
Even with plastic cladding/ body molding, steel can still rust over time,
and if you don't apply an oil product undercoat that creeps into nooks and crannies,
you can expect some rust... eventually.

My vehicle has had 3 applications of rust proofing in 12 years and
the body is rust free..I've only had problems with areas that were NOT
rust proofed (up to this year), like steel lines. 

As far as this electronic device that mounts under the hood, I can't see how
that would prevent rust from starting in high salt evironments...salt spray
is very corrosive. Although the "sacrificial anode principle" works in water heaters and on boats,
air is not as good in conduction of DC and the vehicle is on rubber tires,
so there is no contact with the ground and the salt spray and oxygen in the air can still work
on exposed metal.


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