# Lots of lurkers but few message participants



## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Message writers to lurkers ratio is about 1:10.

For those who participate, many do not try to come up with interesting financial topics to discuss. They do not initiate new threads to stimulate forum interest. They follow and add on an existing thread.

For those who try, they get "lectured and ridiculed"... sigh, in a very condescending tone, like my recent experience in other threads.

Yup... those sayings are right:

"Throw the baby out with the bath water."
"It takes a whole team of engineers to build a tower and only one [email protected] to blow it up."

In my view, the general attitude of this forum is simply weird. I would like to see more leaders in this group, posting new threads every day to stimulate the growth of message group. I have joined only 3 months ago and contributed 150 messages.

By the way, I am going to hire a professional to manage my finance. So there is no need to tell how me how "wrong" I did in managing my stocks. With my portfolio size, I see changes of 5 digits$ up and down easily. It is not something one would understand until you are at that stage... seeing $10,000 change with 1% change in market. So you don't need to "lecture me" about holding on.... yes, seeing $50,000 drop in one week of bear market? And hope for a bounce back? To be called "weak hand" because I sell too fast? If it is $1,000, I would not even care. Whatever.

So... back to lurking.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Most internet forums are 90% lurkers.

I'm sorry you feel like you've been run rough-shod over. You came out of the gates throwing wild around accusations of impropriety or disloyalty to Canada on the part of the banks. That's a pretty controversial accusation, and it generated some feedback that wasn't entirely gentle. Live with it. It sounds like you need thicker skin. This is a discussion forum; if you don't like a particular discussion, start another or don't participate.


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I am sure most people are aware that there is a difference between the amount of posts an individual might have and the amount of investing knowledge that they may possess.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

MoreMiles said:


> I would like to see more leaders in this group, posting new threads every day...


So...threads for the sake of threads?


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

You are not you're post count! 

I'll add when I have something, I read and lurk when I don't. If I have an interesting question or thought, I'll start a thread.

I'm not going to +1 a thread just because. I'm not going to weigh in on something I have no knowledge in and I don't partake in threads that are just rehashes of earliery threads.(Ie, Fixed or Variable? Which one is for me?)

I've been around here for about a year, and post about every other day. Good enough for me.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MoreMiles said:


> By the way, I am going to hire a professional to manage my finance. So there is no need to tell how me how "wrong" I did in managing my stocks. With my portfolio size, I see changes of 5 digits$ up and down easily. It is not something one would understand until you are at that stage... seeing $10,000 change with 1% change in market. So you don't need to "lecture me" about holding on.... yes, seeing $50,000 drop in one week of bear market? And hope for a bounce back? To be called "weak hand" because I sell too fast? If it is $1,000, I would not even care. Whatever.
> 
> So... back to lurking.


We speak in annual percentage rates for a reason. The actual magnitude means squat besides the fees, which is where a more useful rate like ROI comes into play. Four five six figures is irrelevant. If you buy high and sell low you did just that regardless

You seem way too emotional for individual stocks. If can't get past the fact that 5 figures is only only losing 1% of the portfolio, do you realize you'll be paying someone 5 figures to manage your money as well? I would look into ETFs and forget about it for 6 months. Come back to re-balance and forget about it again.

Making new threads is great but you need to be open to criticism and thankful for the honest and frank advise. The advisers will sugar coat it for you but you may regret that if losing 1% bothers you so much


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

MoreMiles said:


> Message writers to lurkers ratio is about 1:10.
> 
> For those who participate, many do not try to come up with interesting financial topics to discuss. They do not initiate new threads to stimulate forum interest. They follow and add on an existing thread.
> 
> ...


Hmmm ... I'm wondering how you came up with the 1:10 ratio. I'd have thought it would be more like 1:50 or 1:75 but that's a guess on my part.


As for posting new threads, yes it is good to have new topics, especially interesting ones but at the same time, I've learned a lot by adding to existing ones. At times, the exchanges have pointed out details that I've overlooked or I've been able to provide links to show that what has been posted is not complete. 

Then too - a lot of people are struggling to learn (or have time to learn) about finances/investing to begin with - which means a lot of the posts will be basic and not that interesting to those with more experience. 

I'm glad that you've been able to add that many messages and an undetermined number of threads. How busy life gets usually means that I tend to go in cycles. A lot of messages for a while and when I get busy, maybe nothing for a month at a time.


As for the condescending tone, I've seen many causes. Sometimes someone is having a bad day, sometimes the post was misread, sometimes there are seven posts asking the same question, sometimes the wording is controversial and like anywhere else - there are the small number of idiots.

Since a public forum is like a bunch of people sitting a coffee shop and discussing whatever they want - there will be a wide variety.

As for this forum being weird - that's interesting. I say that because compared to some other forums or bulletin boards I've wandered through, the number of insulting messages is much lower. Maybe you've done a better job at picking what forums to view.


As for hiring a professional manager, good for you. Like hiring an auto mechanic or other professional, I'd suggest thinking about how to make sure you get a good one. There are several threads about the types and ways to sort out the good from the bad.


Cheers


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I don't blame you. Picking your own stocks and beating the index every year is almost impossible for the average person. Personally I would just do a model portfolio listed on www.canadiancouchpotato.com and leave it be. You have a good chance of beating your professionally managed money.


----------



## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

crazyjackcsa said:


> I'm not going to +1 a thread just because.


+1


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Hmmm ... I'm wondering how you came up with the 1:10 ratio. I'd have thought it would be more like 1:50 or 1:75 but that's a guess on my part.


It would be easy to calculate, if one wanted to (and maybe Miles did).
On the top navigation bar, there is the Members List.
All you have to do is add up all the members, add up the total posts by each member and divide to get the ratio.

*@Miles* : We can be abrupt and rough at times. But if you browse through past posts, you will see how helpful most folks are.
Just as one example: there is a certain gentleman here who will run retirement calculations for many posters using commercial software that he has developed.
That software retails at $50 (I believe) for a personal licence and much more for a professional licence.

There are scores of instances each day of posters helping each other, and esp. new investors.

I encourage you to stick around and not go dark.
Continue to post. And as a suggestion, maybe search past posts on any topics you are learning or wondering about.
As an example, currency hedging has been beaten to death over the years.
You will find many threads and posts about it.
RRSP vs. TFSA is another example.

Hope to see you around.


----------



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

You have been given your fair share of hate, if I don't mind saying so. People have not exactly been kind to you (for whatever reason).

However, try to just look past it and enjoy the forum and wealth of knowledge it has to offer.

Maybe after getting professional help for your finances, you could try back to doing it on your own when you feel more comfortable.


----------



## PoorPablo83 (Feb 8, 2010)

I've been lurking here for over a year and have rarely posted because I would imagine that like a lot of lurkers here, I'm here to read and learn. Most of the questions people pose on the board I feel are outside of my area of expertise or even general knowledge, so I'm quite content to stay quiet and read, and chime in whenever I can.


----------



## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I contributes less and less compared to when I first got here. I think it's because what I do is considered cowboy finances and is counter to general opinion of safe investment, so the discussion threads tends to be shorter on things I do want to get discussed, or they never get brought up at all. I've learned to keep those discussions to other forums that are relevant to those fields.

On the flip side, this is a great place to learn some left field unknown strategy that is particular to Canada and cannot be used in US. Although, I'd like to hear some more wealth management strategies for rich people, but I understand that will probably not happen. I don't know about others, but I tend to hold back and think 3 times before diving into a thread about a juicy strategy, for fear of it being not safe for life.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Causalien said:


> [ ... ]
> 
> On the flip side, this is a great place to learn some left field unknown strategy that is particular to Canada and cannot be used in US. Although, I'd like to hear some more wealth management strategies for rich people, but I understand that will probably not happen. I don't know about others, but I tend to hold back and think 3 times before diving into a thread about a juicy strategy, for fear of it being not safe for life.


Interesting ... though I suspect the "wealth management strategies for rich people" not being posted here is likely a function of the forum itself. Most that are here and stick around are either learning or do-it-yourself types. 

As for threads about strategies - diving into the thread is much cheaper than putting money on the line, so I'm more likely to dive in to discuss it.


Cheers


----------



## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

Doesn't matter if 1% is $10,000 or 1% is $1000 it is 1% and 3% is $30,000. This is just market noise!

If you spend all day watching this you will go crazy.

I don't think a market professional will help you. Everyday you will still watch the markets. 

Go with laddered GIC for 95% take 5% or a # that doesn't give you heart burn at get comfortable with the markets.


----------



## Mensa (Oct 19, 2010)

Apologies for being more of a lurker than a poster. I often find that I agree with the advice/opinions of other posters so much that I don't have anything to add to many discussions.

There are so many savvy folks here, that I prefer to go with the old adage, "it's better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"


----------



## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Well, I will try not to be negative with this post, but I'm not sure Moremiles is coming to this forum with a view to learning more about financial matters. I suspect there is much he could indeed learn. Rather, at least recently, he seems more interested in uncovering conspiracies or criticizing how this forum works. That's fine but you have to be prepared for negative responses if this is your approach. In addition, Miles made several general statements that would lead us to believe he didn't currently have the temperment to manage an equity portfolio. 
I participate in a few of these forums and this one is pretty civil in my view. I wouldn't participate otherwise. Maybe lurking isn't so bad if the alternative is ill thought through threads suggesting phantom conspiracies?


----------



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I think what disappoints me the most on financial forums is when people completely dismiss any new ideas like TA for example. I know it sounds crazy to most but I do find it interesting whether I use it or not. Not having an open mind has been one of the biggest problems holding the world back let alone this forum going back centuries. 

The stock market is a gambling machine that many experts and advisors get on the wrong side of all the time so one must be careful and always reading and keeping an open mind. In the end you have to be the one responsible for making the decisions on where you put your money or the person you choose to do it for you. This is one of the great things about these forums is we can read what mistakes or good decisions people have made or put our theories out to see what people think.

At home it is hard to find anyone you can talk to about this stuff so it is hard to get the kind of feedback you can get here. Anyways there is my ramble for the day.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

What's TA?


----------



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

TA is Technical Analysis.


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Technical analysis. Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_analysis

I'm not sure I would describe this as a "new technique," though...?


----------



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Your right moneygal TA has been around for many decades but we do get a lot of new stuff coming out in this area. For many people though it is new for them when they see it posted on forums like this.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

And how can we be open minded about boycotting dual listed Cdn companies? moremiles starts a thread with rhetorical questions however when given a few opinions he/she becomes confrontational and changed his/her questions into statements and assertations. I think both sides could have been a bit more courteous and open minded but one side could also be more open to criticism according to this thread.


----------



## cannew (Jun 19, 2011)

Whether one just wants to view or express a view doesn't really matter. I don't think anyone should take the opinions seriously. One does not have to agree with others views, but there is some good advice to be gained and many of the topics are very informative and interesting.

I'm glad the forum is here and appreciate those who contribute.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

cannew said:


> I'm glad the forum is here and appreciate those who contribute.


Ditto & I think this forum is one of the best! 

Many here work full-time + volunteer, etc., & so whatever contribution they offer here [for free] is invaluable to many & very much appreciated by me!

IMHO, it's a bit unrealistic to expect 100% politeness from a forum of x number of members. The fact of the matter is that we have zero control over what others say, but we can control our responses and can also ignore rude folks [we have an ignore list]. 

I'll admit that I'm lazy to create new threads, so I leave that up to those that seem to have more time.

*mensa:* your quote made me laugh, but so true.


----------



## v_tofu (Apr 16, 2009)

MoreMiles said:


> Message writers to lurkers ratio is about 1:10.
> 
> For those who participate, many do not try to come up with interesting financial topics to discuss. They do not initiate new threads to stimulate forum interest. They follow and add on an existing thread.
> 
> ...



I like most people on this forum. Even pie guy.

Are you sure you're not just overly emotional? Like some kind of harmone imbalance? Some people just can't handle criticism like others. 

I know a guy whole yelled at the whole office for stealing some of his chocolate. Also broke down in tears when a female colleague commented on his clothes, although not in a bad way.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I think the lurkers to posters is something like 100 to 1 or 1000 to one, I can't remember where I read or heard that. Not sure if it's true though. Some people just are content reading, and don't want to contribute, and that's okay. I sometimes will post alot on things that I know alot about or feel stongly about, but there are that many things that I feel strongly about that I need to change others views. My opinions are just that... mine. 

In terms of drops in the market, I do tend to look at it as percentage. If 1% is $10000 for you, then your portfolio is a million dollars. Relatively speaking, it is the same as someone losing $100 on their $10000 portfolio. Generally you got to that size of portfolio somehow, so you should probably continue with it. I've lost 5 and 6 figures in a matter of months. I actually did hold on and bought more, daytraded a little, though I did lose sleep for the first time in my life, and am fine now. My losses though impressive in absolute value, are no different than when I first started investing during the dot.com era, and had similar % losses which were only in the 4 digits. I think people are trying to say that you only really know what your risk tolerance is after you get a big down turn. 

My FP is really conservative. We both have an understanding that he will give me a recommendation that I feel is too risk adverse, and I will ask him for something else. He used to question my high risk tolerance, I remind him how I handled the 2 major down turns, then he will come up with something in the middle. As he knows that I've walked the walked. 

In terms of FP's, yeah, people here are not fans of them, and that's okay. I am comfortable with my decisions that the FP I have is right for me. However, for many people here, FP's would not be right for them, and CMFers should point that out, because you can lose a lot. If you can find a FP that you can really trust, and they can help you with making better decisions, and you sleep better at night, that is well worth the fees. If you are watching the markets every day, and are impulsive then an FP may be that somber second look. However, you need to make sure that your FP isn't doing things just to get their commission. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they should.


One of the things I have learned is that self assessment and awareness is a difficult thing. When you are able to admit the truth about yourself, you are able to make wiser decisions, not just in finance but everywhere. If many people here are saying that you should not be in ETF's, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be. You have to take a look at why they may be saying that. Perhaps the posts are can be perceived that you may not have the risk tolerance, experience, or knowledge, or perhaps it's because people here can be biased a certain way. If you come off in the defensive, then it's really hard to see what the underlying intent is. I'm not saying that is the case for you, but if you are finding that you are taking things personally, then maybe it's time to step back and find out where these things are coming from. Keep in mind many posters use their own frame of reference, and the advice they give is based on their experience, they don't know your specifics.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I regularly pursue strategies that most people here would disagree with. But I don't keep posting about them to get agreement. I have confidence that they are working for me.

TA is a good example. I use it sparingly, yet I have adopted some of the techniques for optimizing my buying points in my value portfolio. I am considering moving to more of a dividend tilt but not until the current financial tsunami has passed.

I still have two financial advisors who look after small parts of our portfolios (and getting smaller! Thanks guys.)


----------



## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

FWIW I find the comments and participants in this forum incredibly respectful. And knowledgeable. Much more so than on any other public forum I've seen and even more then at a couple of family gatherings I've been at . I even read through the bank thread and didn't find it too condescending or antagonistic. But that's my read. Stick around MM. It ain't an insult unless you take it as such.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> It would be easy to calculate, if one wanted to (and maybe Miles did).
> On the top navigation bar, there is the Members List.
> All you have to do is add up all the members, add up the total posts by each member and divide to get the ratio.
> 
> [ ... ]


Hmmm ... that would certainly be the Members Lurkers to Members Poster ratio but I was thinking back to when I first started reading the posts here.
I lurked and was not a member for quite a while.

So unless one does a study - the ratio is missing non-Member lurkers.



Cheers


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> However, for many people here, FP's would not be right for them, and CMFers should point that out, because you can lose a lot. If you can find a FP that you can really trust, and they can help you with making better decisions, and you sleep better at night, that is well worth the fees. If you are watching the markets every day, and are impulsive then an FP may be that somber second look. However, you need to make sure that your FP isn't doing things just to get their commission. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they should.


The irony for me in my search for a trustworthy FP.. when I happened to find one from my home area with a similar background he told me I knew more than enough to DIY  He also does far better than people who made a career out of it.

I have the general belief that anyone who takes the time to post on CMF could probably handle a couch potato portfolio. I'm sure there are good FP's out there for certain people though


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Hmmm ... that would certainly be the Members Lurkers to Members Poster ratio but I was thinking back to when I first started reading the posts here.
> I lurked and was not a member for quite a while.
> 
> So unless one does a study - the ratio is missing non-Member lurkers.


Actually it's quite easy and I agree with MoreMiles assessment of 10:1

Look at the bottom and it says X active users, Y members and Z guests. Let's say there's under ~50 posters and currently 350 lurkers. Most ever users online was 500. I would say 10:1 is the closest even ratio, it's certainly not 1000:1 or 100:1 as someone posted


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> The irony for me in my search for a trustworthy FP.. when I happened to find one from my home area with a similar background he told me I knew more than enough to DIY  He also does far better than people who made a career out of it.
> 
> I have the general belief that anyone who takes the time to post on CMF could probably handle a couch potato portfolio. I'm sure there are good FP's out there for certain people though


Finding the FP you can trust is the tough one though. I'm not sure what makes me really trust my FP so much, but I do. It could be that he has done things that indicate that he treats my money like he would his own. He values money, not just his, but money in general, and has a respect for it in terms of maximizing it for who ever he is working for. I have no doubt that I could do it, but as I've said in other threads, I'm happy with my choice and reasoning. Though that doesn't mean I won't start looking at the Couch Potatoe for my TSFA. 




mode3sour said:


> Actually it's quite easy and I agree with MoreMiles assessment of 10:1
> 
> Look at the bottom and it says X active users, Y members and Z guests. Let's say there's under ~50 posters and currently 350 lurkers. Most ever users online was 500. I would say 10:1 is the closest even ratio, it's certainly not 1000:1 or 100:1 as someone posted


Though the stats will give you an immediate snapshot, if you look over all I think 100 to 1 or higher is closer for the number of people who visit a site and lurker with out registering, vs number of people who register and just lurker vs people who actually post


----------



## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

The 350 online is a point in time. 

According to this page:http://www.findwebstats.com/canadianmoneyforum.com there are about 2000 unique visitors a day. And per the 'new post' search -- I think it goes back 24 hrs or so....there were 35 threads posted in since yesterday 6:04 pm.

Some threads will have many posts, but I think there's probably more instances of the same poster in many threads....so my guess is 30:1 or higher lurker/poster. (my gut is it's closer to 100:1 since I see the same people posting again and again). And 'Lurker' seems so shady. I think I prefer the term 'Observer.' Or perhaps -- 'Sojourner' or even 'tourists'....


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Charlie said:


> (my gut is it's closer to 100:1 since I see the same people posting again and again). And 'Lurker' seems so shady. I think I prefer the term 'Observer.' Or perhaps -- 'Sojourner' or even 'tourists'....


Well I think we have to better define lurker here. A lurker imo is someone who returns day after day as a regular observer and eventually might make some posts. I'm a lurker myself on a few forums that I either don't know much about or don't feel like posting etc. I think most people start out as lurkers just to avoid making the same threads as all the other n00bs

Now these sojourners or tourists who account for all those unique hits are entirely different people imo. They have googled tfsa or etf or humble pie or the three tiers of savings and arrived here maybe read a topic and left. I am also a tourist of many forums when I google a specific random topic, yet I rarely return. I wouldn't consider myself a lurker of those forums

Perhaps 1:25 or 1:50 if we take into account that lurkers don't spend as much time on the site as the posters?


----------



## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Interesting ... though I suspect the "wealth management strategies for rich people" not being posted here is likely a function of the forum itself. Most that are here and stick around are either learning or do-it-yourself types.
> 
> As for threads about strategies - diving into the thread is much cheaper than putting money on the line, so I'm more likely to dive in to discuss it.
> 
> ...


I think you misunderstood my intention when I said they are not suited for life. But we'll leave it at that since explaining it is even worse.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Well I think we have to better define lurker here. A lurker imo is someone who returns day after day as a regular observer and eventually might make some posts. I'm a lurker myself on a few forums that I either don't know much about or don't feel like posting etc. I think most people start out as lurkers just to avoid making the same threads as all the other n00bs
> 
> Now these sojourners or tourists who account for all those unique hits are entirely different people imo. They have googled tfsa or etf or humble pie or the three tiers of savings and arrived here maybe read a topic and left. I am also a tourist of many forums when I google a specific random topic, yet I rarely return. I wouldn't consider myself a lurker of those forums
> 
> Perhaps 1:25 or 1:50 if we take into account that lurkers don't spend as much time on the site as the posters?


All of which makes it much more difficult (and interesting) to figure out.

Take me as an example - sometimes I'm visiting a couple of times a day, sometimes nothing for a month and that's just reading threads. Whether I post depends a lot on if I have a question, if the thread isn't answered or I feel I have have something to add either from a knowledge or banter point of view.


Cheers


----------



## cannon_fodder (Apr 3, 2009)

It's interesting that some of the posts here implied that non-conventional thinking is frowned upon here. Personally, if all I got here was a rehash of well known concepts, that wouldn't be very valuable - for *me.*

Of course, the fundamentals of finance in its various forms have a critical place here. But, I have got the sense that some people misunderstand that, when we relay what we are doing or how we are thinking, we aren't saying that you must do the same. We are only letting you know the how and the why and the what for ourselves. Compile that with the other responses and then see if you find a fit for your situation.

There are also some people who must have very tired legs... from jumping to so many (usually incorrect) conclusions. As I am guilty of it in my day-to-day life, I'll hold up my hand in shame, too. Try to keep an open mind and understand that we never have all of the facts, never mind the emotional temperament of any individual on here.

But if there is a better finance forum, especially for Canadians, I haven't found it yet. I just hope the principal founders are not just doing this as a labour of love, i.e. that there is some tangible compensation that more than pays for their costs and time.

My thanks to them.


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree with Cannon. This is probably the best forum. I am active on RFD finance section and lurk financial webring with a post count of like 5. The crew here is pretty good. Some very smart and wealthy people here.. Good to take advice from them.


----------



## kerik68 (Jul 1, 2011)

As a very new member to this forum, I will admit that I sometimes find it intimidating. I am not even close to being an expert and am trying to learn more and more but I am WAY behind the curve here. I have been reading every day and hope one day to contribute more.


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

kerik68 said:


> As a very new member to this forum, I will admit that I sometimes find it intimidating. I am not even close to being an expert and am trying to learn more and more but I am WAY behind the curve here. I have been reading every day and hope one day to contribute more.


But you probably have music suggestions to share, maybe recipes, perhaps you want to talk about your car, or have opinions on wind power or the Canadian military - and for sure you bring the most important thing (IMO) - interesting questions to contemplate.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

kerik68 said:


> I am not even close to being an expert and am trying to learn more and more but I am WAY behind the curve here. I have been reading every day and hope one day to contribute more.


There are many knowledgeable people here, but what would they do without people who need help? Questions = contributions also. 

No need to feel intimidated as most here are friendly & ready to help.


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

And even the cranky ones (me, sometimes) are eager to help!


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Yup, M.gal is one the most knowledgeable gals around here and always ready to help, but cranky, really? I had not noticed.


----------



## kerik68 (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks everyone.

I am reading Moneygal's book and am learning a ton. 

Will be sure to post more.


----------

