# Any Renters here?



## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

I was curious if anyone on this forum rents, rather than owns.

I rent a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom apartment in a Prarie City. My spouse and I have a household income in the top 1% of Canada, but don't really desire the responsibilities and effort that comes with a house. I also like the flexibility of renting. We invest all of our additional income after rent is paid. Obviously, our situation is different than many Canadians who are priced out of major cities.

I assume almost everyone on this forum owns, I wondered if anyone else has shunned buying in order to rent.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm an owner of two.

But I can tell you for sure there are quite a few on here that rent voluntarily instead of owning. =)

You are not alone.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We retired and sold our house. Travelled for seven months, rented furnished for 3 months In the city.

Then we rented for four years. It was wonderful. No responsibility. It was also a down market where we lived so it was much better from a financial perspective.

Pros and cons to both and of course it depends on the market, rental and buy, where you happen to live.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Johnny199r said:


> I assume almost everyone on this forum owns, I wondered if anyone else has shunned buying in order to rent.


I've been renting places my whole life. No problem with renting.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

We have owned in the past but we have been renting for over a decade despite not really having any financial difficulties. We enjoy having more time to not repair or fix up the place, and more capital to invest. We also occasionally move, and that is also a deterrent to owning, as I'm not interested in being an absentee landlord. We'll probably pick up a place eventually, a "forever" home if you will, but no rush. Meanwhile, we focus on our family, our careers, and growing our capital. Currently renting a large 4 bedroom duplex in a central location in a large Canadian city. It's not cheap, but I still do not mind, given a comparable cost of capital estimate on owning a similar place.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I've owned a condo in the past, but I currently rent a basement suite.

Would like to buy a house, but I'm priced out. No interest in owning a condo again, but might consider a townhome as a last resort.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We sold our last home in 2005 and were going to buy again but never got around to it, so we have been here for 16 years.

We have a 3 bedroom 3 bath townhouse with unfinished basement. Court yard backing onto a park and we built a front porch and renovated inside ourselves.

As the unit is rent controlled rent has gone from $980 a month plus hydro in 2005 to $1180 a month plus hydro today. Only a $200 a month increase.

During that time, the landlord replaced the roof, fridge, windows, and done some basic repairs and all the outside maintenance.

If I do the calculations if we bought a similar unit......we would pay $300 condo fees, $200 taxes, $100 heat, $60 water, $100 insurance plus all maintenance each month.

So the cost would be $760 a month before a mortgage payment or maintenance costs. I doubt we could buy a place for the remaining $400 a month.

I don't miss shoveling snow or cutting grass, the large maintenance costs, or constant visits to the local hardware store.

I think for other people who are seeing quickly rising rent costs, it is a far different calculation though.

Also, had we bought back in 2005 we would have made large capital gains since, but who knew that was going to happen.

In the 6 homes we previously owned.......we didn't make much on capital gains on any of them. It just didn't happen back then.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

PS.......before someone pops in and says the "landlord is subsidizing our rent'.......no they aren't.

They built these units in 1967 for an average unit price of likely around $5K or less. They have been collecting rents for 54 years since.

Some years they raise the rent what they are allowed and some years they don't raise it at all. I expect they will raise it next year likely by 3%, which is fair to us.

We have been here for 16 years and pay the rent by automatic debit every month without delay or fail. Most of the tenants here are very long term.

The landlord is happy with the situation. Actually, his grandkids and great grandkids are happy with the situation since it is their business now.

Interesting that in New Brunswick there is no rent control, so a company in Toronto paid 3 X the assessed value for an old walk up apartment building and jacked the rent by 50-100% on the tenants. In Ontario, a landlord can't do that on an old rental building. They can sell the units but the rent controls still apply.

When people move out, the landlord is free to raise the rent to market value. Rent controls work very well and should be in place everywhere.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Wow..

They could probably be making double. You are lucky.


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## Saveching (Sep 18, 2021)

Hi, long time watcher, first time poster.
I have been renting the same spot in welland ontario since 2012, I have been able to spend my time and money on better things like helping others and personal development.
With the new inflated rents and little to no increase in basic wages in the area, we are getting more slum tenants than people with positive outlooks on life and the community.


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

My wife and I are both in our early 30s and do fairly well for ourselves. We have been renting the past 6 years and will do the same for another 2-4 years before a big decision has to be made. We have resided to the fact we probably will never own a home. I'm not angry about it. I have ran the numbers many times and I know for certain we are better off renting than owning. We have always invested the difference after the rent is paid. 
The thing that really bothers her is other people asking why we don't buy something. We have had the conversation many times as to why it works for us and no for other people. We aren't the Jones'. But she finds in very intrusive when people ask why. Me on the other hand, I respond with 'how much interest have you paid on your mortgage since you bought?'.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MK7GTI said:


> I have ran the numbers many times and I know for certain we are better off renting than owning. We have always invested the difference after the rent is paid.


Same. I've bought/sold a few houses and rented in Europe and US. I prefer renting.

I spend far less free time and money on maintenance as a renter. The biggest cost is the opportunity cost of such an illiquid asset.

There are good lifestyle reasons to own. There are financial reasons as well for those who couldn't handle liquid assets



MK7GTI said:


> The thing that really bothers her is other people asking why we don't buy something. We have had the conversation many times as to why it works for us and no for other people. We aren't the Jones'. But she finds in very intrusive when people ask why. Me on the other hand, I respond with 'how much interest have you paid on your mortgage since you bought?'.


Sounds like when you don't have kids. Everyone who has kids thinks you need to have kids as well. Misery loves company or something

People just want to justify their own decisions to themselves. Somebody doing something different makes them question their life choices or something

Imagine going to church to ask people why they haven't converted to atheism yet.


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

m3s said:


> Same. I've bought/sold a few houses and rented in Europe and US. I prefer renting.
> 
> I spend far less free time and money on maintenance as a renter. The biggest cost is the opportunity cost of such an illiquid asset.
> 
> ...


You make some good points. We/I have always been sort of the oddball in our friend group in Yellowknife. We are generally the total opposite in terms of lifestyle to them. They all have expensive houses, truck/suvs, campers, sleds, sidexside, quad, dogs, travel a lot, eat out often etc. We on the other hand rent a 2 bed/1 bath apartment. Have 2 vehicles but are far from the latest and greatest. No toys and no pets. Our hobbies are running, golf, and reading. We don't really travel outside of Canada unless for work.

I guess the renting/owning conversation blends into many different aspects of ones life. Obviously is a personal choice and for most the added cost of ownership is worth it. Most don't realize how much more it does cost though.


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## kcowan2000 (Mar 24, 2020)

We rent in West Vancouver and leave the place empty when we travel. It is rent controlled and on First Nations land. Was built in 1966 but renewed every 10 years. It is rent controlled so we got the 1.5% increase this month. Many said "Gee when are you going to buy?" And I responded "Never!". I did the analysis 25 years ago, and renting made the most sense. I redid it 3 years ago and renting still makes the most sense by far (3300 sq.ft. Penthouse rental versus purchase of 1050 sq.ft. for the same monthly cost).

Our snowbird residence is purchased because the $ made more sense, and we are on our second one since 2007.


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

nm


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

MK7GTI said:


> You make some good points. We/I have always been sort of the oddball in our friend group in Yellowknife. We are generally the total opposite in terms of lifestyle to them. They all have expensive houses, truck/suvs, campers, sleds, sidexside, quad, dogs, travel a lot, eat out often etc. We on the other hand rent a 2 bed/1 bath apartment. Have 2 vehicles but are far from the latest and greatest. No toys and no pets. Our hobbies are running, golf, and reading. We don't really travel outside of Canada unless for work.
> 
> I guess the renting/owning conversation blends into many different aspects of ones life. Obviously is a personal choice and for most the added cost of ownership is worth it. Most don't realize how much more it does cost though.


I lived in Northern Manitoba for close to a decade. The "toys" you list as must haves in Yellowknife were quite similar to what people owned there there. Many individuals had a boat, snowmobile(s), quad, etc. Those things were so expensive, and quite often needed repairs. Of course, you weren't a Northerner unless you had a nice pickup truck, too.

I had a dirt bike when I lived there. I bought it for $1,500 and sold it to my friend for $1,000 when I left. That's the only thing I ever bought. I just made friends with the guys with the real expensive stuff, so I went with them every time!


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

My ultimate goal when I reach retirement is to rent in Canada for about 6 months per year, and then rent somewhere warm in another country for 6 months a year. I wonder if anyone has managed to replicate that strategy...


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

There is not right or wrong answer. It is all about one's personal situation, preferences, and the housing market where you happen to live.

We did extremely well financially by selling our home and putting the equity in the market. It was not done on purpose, it just happened that way. It might have been different if we lived in a different city or if the financial markets did not do as well as they did.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

We currently own but will probably sell in 4 or 5 years, move to a rental, and then start spending down the home's equity ($350k).

There are people who can't save but that would never miss a mortgage payment. They might be good candidates to be homeowners as it's a forced savings plan that they can tap into in retirement. If you like to move around and have no interest in yard work and maintenance then renting is probably a better option.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I've thought about it briefly after reading other comments. I could sell and put the money in say a bank stock, which would generate 2-3 times what it would cost to rent. But then there wouldn't be as much capital appreciation ? Trade off would be risk of having to find a new place if owner sold etc. I don't really care, worked hard to get our own place and pay for it and it has been a good option.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Mechanic said:


> I've thought about it briefly after reading other comments. I could sell and put the money in say a bank stock, which would generate 2-3 times what it would cost to rent. But then there wouldn't be as much capital appreciation ? Trade off would be risk of having to find a new place if owner sold etc. I don't really care, worked hard to get our own place and pay for it and it has been a good option.


Bank stock dividends would also be taxed (unless in a TFSA) whereas the RE capital grows tax free and can easily be leveraged.

For people that don't already own, whose lifestyle may benefit from the ability to easily relocate for opportunities etc, the financial benefits of owning aren't as clear cut as many say. I've had much more capital appreciation outside of RE. I can always trade in and out of REITs if I wanted to but RE gains are more from the insane leverage and cheap mortgage rates than appreciation itself

It's pretty expensive/inconvenient to sell your house based on market conditions and the renting lifestyle isn't ideal for everyone.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Mechanic said:


> I've thought about it briefly after reading other comments. I could sell and put the money in say a bank stock, which would generate 2-3 times what it would cost to rent. But then there wouldn't be as much capital appreciation ? Trade off would be risk of having to find a new place if owner sold etc. I don't really care, worked hard to get our own place and pay for it and it has been a good option.


Rent and Home Ownership continue to rise year after year, sometimes in lockstep, sometimes not, but they both continue to rise with inflation. That's the beauty of Home Ownership. The day you buy, you stop that inflation in its tracks. Rent, unfortunately continues its inflationary march. A decade or two down the road you look at what you paid for your home and you laugh at the price that you thought at the time was so expensive, but now is at best walking around money, while the renters are paying the rates of the day.

ltr


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

like_to_retire said:


> Rent and Home Ownership continue to rise year after year, sometimes in lockstep, sometimes not, but they both continue to rise with inflation. That's the beauty of Home Ownership. The day you buy, you stop that inflation in its tracks. Rent, unfortunately continues its inflationary march. A decade or two down the road you look at what you paid for your home and you laugh at the price that you thought at the time was so expensive, but now is at best walking around money, while the renters are paying the rates of the day.
> 
> ltr


Hard to know if that will be the case now. Will someone be thrilled they bought a SFH home for 1.5 mill instead of renting? Will it turn out to be a good financial decision?

I’m not sure that just because things used to be a certain way, they still are.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

Another renter here. I rent a SFH in Ontario. Rent is just shy of 3K per month. I was planning on a three bedroom apt, however covid hit and changed all our living arrangements and travel plans. Right now we have no travel plans and it will stay that way until we know we can travel without being lock into another country. We're not fearful of covid, we are fearful of political decisions.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

I'm sure a lot of renters already know that they are paying someone else's mortgage (and property tax and insurance). Not only that, you never know when the landlord will try to get rid of you for the many ways they are allowed.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Tostig said:


> I'm sure a lot of renters already know that they are paying someone else's mortgage (and property tax and insurance). Not only that, you never know when the landlord will try to get rid of you for the many ways they are allowed.


I'm sure most people know that rent includes property tax and other costs, including profit.

Renting vs owning is more a lifestyle decision than a financial decision. There are pros and cons to both. I've owned houses since I was 21, now at 59 I expect that I'll sell in a few years.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Tostig said:


> I'm sure a lot of renters already know that they are paying someone else's mortgage (and property tax and insurance). Not only that, you never know when the landlord will try to get rid of you for the many ways they are allowed.


My father is a landlord and he definitely couldn't get rid of the trouble tenants as easily as he'd like

When I rent I always pay on time, make the landlord's job easy and respect the place as my own

I'd rather have liquidity and flexibility. Unrealized gains don't mean much if you can't capitalize


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Johnny199r said:


> don't really desire the responsibilities and effort that comes with a house. I also like the flexibility of renting. We invest all of our additional income after rent is paid.


This makes the most sense. Canada isn’t the country for owning a property. I would rather buy something in warmer climates.


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

Tostig said:


> I'm sure a lot of renters already know that they are paying someone else's mortgage (and property tax and insurance). Not only that, you never know when the landlord will try to get rid of you for the many ways they are allowed.


Every previous poster gave really thoughtful answers, and then there was your response.

I'll have to watch out for my corporate landlord looking to try to get rid of me from the purpose built apartment building I live in. I'm sure leaving my apartment empty is their ultimate goal.

You could have just left your response as "No, I don't rent". Your wisdom wasn't really needed.


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## Flugzeug (Aug 15, 2018)

I’ve owned 2 places in the past, sold the last place in 2020. 

Currently renting after a cross country move and wanted to find out bearings first.

We will buy again and have the means to buy a house where we are (Victoria), but we aren’t desperate or rushing into anything.

Nothing wrong with either option. It Is kind of nice not worrying about all the things I used to deal with when owning a house with a large yard.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Johnny199r said:


> My ultimate goal when I reach retirement is to rent in Canada for about 6 months per year, and then rent somewhere warm in another country for 6 months a year. I wonder if anyone has managed to replicate that strategy...


I have a semi-retired friend who splits his time between renting a place in the US, and renting in Asia.

He's been in Indonesia for over a year now. It's constantly beautiful weather and his dollars go a lot further than here at home. When he returns here, he just resumes renting another place. He does not own a property and isn't permanently tied down.


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## Danny (Oct 17, 2012)

I would think finding a place to rent in Canada every year when you come back for 6 months would be tough. Unless your just renting a room. Kind of like a student renting a place for 8 months of the year every year. Normally landlords want a 12 month lease.


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## kcowan2000 (Mar 24, 2020)

In Vancouver, many offshore owners will rent out below market rates to avoid the empty homes tax. Even some residents with vacation home have to be careful .


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

like_to_retire said:


> ...The day you buy, you stop that inflation in its tracks. Rent, unfortunately continues its inflationary march ...


YMMV.

There's inflation for the home owner for the utilities, materials for maintenance/repairs (including possibly labour/profits for whomever one hires).

I also have friends renting where increases come every year while others have gone many years with little or no increases.




like_to_retire said:


> ... A decade or two down the road you look at what you paid for your home and you laugh at the price that you thought at the time was so expensive, but now is at best walking around money, while the renters are paying the rates of the day.


While I have done well when selling - I have yet to have the original price be "walking around money". Perhaps this comment is driven by the local market?

My remote co-worker said he's unable to change provinces as he'd hoped as the value is stagnant versus where he wants to move doing up 20% or so for the last two years.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> Tostig said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure a lot of renters already know that they are paying someone else's mortgage (and property tax and insurance) ...
> ...


If so then it makes me wonder why I keep seeing renters say one of the benefits is that they don't pay the property taxes, utilities or maintenance fees that a home owner has.

I've done rented and owned. 
Currently I own with the Heloc boosting my equity investments as well as income. 
I've at times rented a room or two out.

Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Johnny199r said:


> My ultimate goal when I reach retirement is to rent in Canada for about 6 months per year, and then rent somewhere warm in another country for 6 months a year. I wonder if anyone has managed to replicate that strategy...


I know people who rent all year in Canada and rent for their time in warmer countries.

If you plan to rent for in Canada for six months - does that mean you'll be moving your stuff into storage for six months then to the new rental in Canada?

I also read of some who have trailers in parks in Canada and the US (i.e. spend the summer in the one in Canada and the winter in the one in the warmer US one).

Cheers


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Eclectic21 said:


> If so then it makes me wonder why I keep seeing renters say one of the benefits is that they don't pay the property taxes, utilities or maintenance fees that a home owner has.


I don't know how many people truly believe that. They must know that those costs are included in their rent.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Eclectic21 said:


> If so then it makes me wonder why I keep seeing renters say one of the benefits is that they don't pay the property taxes, utilities or maintenance fees that a home owner has.
> 
> I've done rented and owned.
> Currently I own with the Heloc boosting my equity investments as well as income.
> ...


As a renter for much of my life, I can tell you with certainty that I have been paying rent on properties that are big time cash flow negative. Maybe at some point the landlord makes it up down the line, or sells the building at a profit, but there was no way they were making big stacks off my rent. Price is everything - but one of the nice flexibilities with rent is you can be in older buildings and pay low rent, perhaps because the owner has paid it off and doesn't need to generate a big return. Other places have rent controls, like all of Ontario and BC, and if you stay for 10 years, your rent might be substantially below market. In my personal experience, I almost never have annual rent increases, because the owners prefer to keep a reliable tenant, and as such are paying below market rates for stability. 

I would suggest that most of the other posters are reflecting a similar experience to me. I understand why there is a perception that people might be throwing their money away on rent, but I really don't think that is the case the majority of the time.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

I don't think every landlord makes a profit, and some probably don't mind under the right circumstances. For example, one of my friends owned two rentals and made very little profit but he always told me that someone else was paying off the mortgage for him. He eventually sold one of the properties and his $30k down payment returned him $70k. Not a bad return for 6 years.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> I don't know how many people truly believe that. They must know that those costs are included in their rent.


Some renters are adamant that they don't pay these items, despite others pointing out that the landlord would eventually go broke if the renter really isn't paying these expenses.

Cheers


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Eclectic21 said:


> Some renters are adamant that they don't pay these items, despite others pointing out that the landlord would eventually go broke if the renter really isn't paying these expenses.


Most people are financially illiterate. Probably more than the average among renters. It's a common narrative that rent is mainly profit for the evil rich landlord who is trying to screw them every possible way. They've never paid those things themselves, they don't know what they amount to or what they're for and they don't care.

Back on topic, I don't see myself renting any time soon because I enjoy the freedom to punch a hole through the wall whenever I want to. I find minor repairs and maintenance to be a nice hobby.

If I eventually move to a condo as I grow older, I would probably consider renting as ownership there seems more like a trap than a freedom.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

off.by.10 said:


> Most people are financially illiterate. Probably more than the average among renters. It's a common narrative that rent is mainly profit for the evil rich landlord who is trying to screw them every possible way. They've never paid those things themselves, they don't know what they amount to or what they're for and they don't care.
> 
> Back on topic, I don't see myself renting any time soon because I enjoy the freedom to punch a hole through the wall whenever I want to. I find minor repairs and maintenance to be a nice hobby.
> 
> If I eventually move to a condo as I grow older, I would probably consider renting as ownership there seems more like a trap than a freedom.


What stops your from punching a hole through the wall in a rental? So long as you fix it?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

afulldeck said:


> What stops your from punching a hole through the wall in a rental? So long as you fix it?


"freedom to punch a hole through the wall" is just a general term meaning you can make any changes without someone elses approval (aside from building codes). Say you wanted to change your existing layout to a more open design which required wall removal/modification ... if you own it, you just do it.


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## Juggernaut92 (Aug 9, 2020)

HappilyRetired said:


> I'm sure most people know that rent includes property tax and other costs, including profit.


I am curious about this. I thought rent would include everything (including utilities) for the renter. However, at the same time are there not times where it would make sense for the renter to make the extra fees? Ex. a landlord rents out their condo to tenant. Would it not be easier for the tenant to pay rent + hydro. If not then the hydro bill would be going to the landlord. Dont know too much about theses matters but am curious.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I've been brought up with the mentality of owning RE. I was taught at an early age to save money, purchase property, maintain it and benefit from it - both from a pride of ownership perspective and value appreciation.

For that reason, I've never rented. I've always owned a home and also own additional rental properties. I never understood the comparison of renting vs owning in terms of a savings strategy. There is no comparison when looked at over the long term. It has always been a question of personal choice given ones lifestyle. As most who rent have indicated, they enjoy flexibility and the hassle-free maintenance. Not everyone seeks that.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Juggernaut92 said:


> I am curious about this. I thought rent would include everything (including utilities) for the renter. However, at the same time are there not times where it would make sense for the renter to make the extra fees? Ex. a landlord rents out their condo to tenant. Would it not be easier for the tenant to pay rent + hydro. If not then the hydro bill would be going to the landlord. Dont know too much about theses matters but am curious.


Some renters pay for electricity but others don't. One reason could be that some buildings don't have separate electrical meters for each unit. I know renters that pay for electricity and some that don't.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Juggernaut92 said:


> I am curious about this. I thought rent would include everything (including utilities) for the renter. However, at the same time are there not times where it would make sense for the renter to make the extra fees? Ex. a landlord rents out their condo to tenant. Would it not be easier for the tenant to pay rent + hydro. If not then the hydro bill would be going to the landlord. Dont know too much about theses matters but am curious.


Each situation is different. In general, the landlord will not lose money so whoever pays the utilities, it will reflect in the rent payment.

There is an advantage to having the landlord pay the utilities - the expense becomes a tax write-off so it could benefit those who have little expenses to declare.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Each situation is different. In general, the landlord will not lose money so whoever pays the utilities, it will reflect in the rent payment.
> 
> There is an advantage to having the landlord pay the utilities - the expense becomes a tax write-off so it could benefit those who have little expenses to declare.


An expense that's a tax write off always costs more than not having the expense in the first place.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

HappilyRetired said:


> An expense that's a tax write off always costs more than not having the expense in the first place.


Not always the case. Rent will have to more than cover the utility expense (heating, for example, fluctuates so landlord will have to assume the risk). So landlord will offset the cost with rental income but also gains the ability to deduct the expense against taxable income.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

HappilyRetired said:


> Some renters pay for electricity but others don't. One reason could be that some buildings don't have separate electrical meters for each unit. I know renters that pay for electricity and some that don't.


Same with heating / hot water which are often central systems in large or older buildings. I've even had a place where those were included but I still had a gas bill for a tiny 24" stove. Old buildings tend to have very strange setups.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We rented for four years in what turned out to be a down market. I knew the value of the condo we rented.. I knew what the owners condo fees were. And how much the property taxes were.

I knew that the owner had paid two condo assessments. $35K just prior to us moving in, another $10K or so as we were leaving. The value of her condo remained constant or declined a little during that four year period. Last year we looked and saw scaffolding over the front of the low rise condo building. So my guess is....yet another assessment.

At one point we considered buying a condo in the development. Fortunately we were warned off by someone who knew the builder/developer's history and reputation.

The owner made negative equity on her investment over those four years. We invested the equity from the sale of our home for those four years while we rented and did exceeding well. It paid for a great deal of international travel.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

The stories of cash flow negative properties and owners not making that much money are less interesting to many. Often, many older rentals have been owned outright (debt free), sometimes for a decade or longer, and the older owner only really need the rent checks and often happy to keep reliable tenants, sometimes for decades with little to no rent increases. They also exhibit financial illiteracy about return on capital and cost of capital, but I've been happy to save both time and money.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I believe there is a tendency by some to overlook the 'opportunity cost' of an underperforming asset. Whatever that asset might be.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Not all landlords are knowledgeable enough to maintain a profitable investment property. Condos are usually the worst investment properties. The key with condos is knowing when to get in and proper time to get out. IMO, better to steer clear from condos when choosing an investment property.

When it comes to choosing a home, renting a condo instead of owning one is usually the better decision, financially.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Danny said:


> I would think finding a place to rent in Canada every year when you come back for 6 months would be tough


Yeah, I agree and I am hesitant to do the same thing my friend is doing. It sounds like quite a hassle.

However I am considering renting only a very small / minimal place in Canada (affordable to keep all the time) along with trips abroad when I want. This ends up cheaper than owning a large home.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Rational Reminder did several good podcasts on this:

Episode 154: Renting vs. Buying a Home: How to Decide — Rational Reminder
Episode 170: Are Homeowners Happier than Renters? — Rational Reminder 
Episode 172: Is the Debate Over Renting vs. Buying a Home Really Over? Featuring Rob Carrick — Rational Reminder


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

Mortgage u/w said:


> I never understood the comparison of renting vs owning in terms of a savings strategy. There is no comparison when looked at over the long term.


I do think that most people would believe this, but I also think there are some other contributing demographic factors which contribute to how this usually ends up being true. However, in circumstances with couples like the OP, I'd wager pretty confidently that they'll end up miles ahead of their home buying peers in the long run. From just a very brief check 1981 to 2021 avg price increase on homes in canada is 1.9%/yr, while you would have enjoyed 11.8%/yr in the S&P500. Obviously within that long view there are tremendous stories of both gains and losses for each class but I'm just throwing that out to refute the idea that "there is no comparison when looked at over the long term". It's just way more nuanced than simply home ownership wins all the time, but I think I'm preaching to the choir in here on a finance forum.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Mortgage u/w said:


> There is no comparison when looked at over the long term. It has always been a question of personal choice given ones lifestyle. As most who rent have indicated, they enjoy flexibility and the hassle-free maintenance. Not everyone seeks that.


RE is the best way to start out financially because you get huge leverage with a little capital

With say $1M+ capital the flexibility and liquidity allow for much better diversity and gains in my experience. Flexible lifestyle also lets you follow career opportunities

If I stayed where my first or second house was my career would be much less impressive or diverse


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

m3s said:


> RE is the best way to start out financially because you get huge leverage with a little capital
> 
> With say $1M+ capital the flexibility and liquidity allow for much better diversity and gains in my experience. Flexible lifestyle also lets you follow career opportunities
> 
> If I stayed where my first or second house was my career would be much less impressive or diverse


I'm in your camp m3s, and I don't understand why more Canadian's don't understand the rental advantage. I've tried to make that argument many times, but all I get is blank stares. In the meantime, I rent an fairly expensive house, and I really don't worry about depleting capital or moving.


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