# Any Accountants out there?



## Joeh (Jul 20, 2009)

Hey guys, 
Fairly new to these forums, have posted a few times. Was wondering if there are any active accountants out here? I am currently enrolled in post secondary for accounting. I was wondering if you guys might have any tips or suggestion? I will be entering my second year in Jan 2013. For the summer i will be looking to get job that will hopefully offer some experience in accounting. Also as far as a designation i believe i will be going into a CMA, so far that interests me most. Any discussion or suggestions will be welcomed!
Thanks!
Joey H


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm a Chartered Accountant. My biggest recommendation for someone in 2nd year university is to get relevant job experience, either through the coop program or through summer jobs, whichever works out better at your university/city. It sounds like you're already thinking this way.

Have you given much thought as to which designation to do? Getting your CA at a firm is a brutal struggle. You'll make less and work more than if you had gone straight to industry, however you get to see things at a higher level. You also get exposed to several industries so you can make a more informed decision about what industry you want to eventually work in.

The big difference between getting your CA and your CMA is whether you like preparing financial information for shareholders (CA) or management (CMA). I spent 4 busy seasons at a big 4 firm, and through the firm I am currently contracted out to the finance department of a publicly traded mining company. I can tell you I much prefer the preparation of financial information for shareholders. I prefer how it is rule based (CICA handbook) vs. preparing financial information in whatever manner management feels is appropriate this month (just wait until a manager blows a budget and wants both the budget and the P&L rearranged so it doesn't look like their fault). That said, my girlfriend is also a CA and much prefers working in industry as opposed to a firm. Both roles are necessary and pay relatively well, what's important is which type of work you prefer. If the 3 designations do merge into 1 program, the CPA, the decision becomes whether you want to start your career in audit or industry.

Hope this helps.


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## Joeh (Jul 20, 2009)

Ethan said:


> I'm a Chartered Accountant. My biggest recommendation for someone in 2nd year university is to get relevant job experience, either through the coop program or through summer jobs, whichever works out better at your university/city. It sounds like you're already thinking this way.
> 
> Have you given much thought as to which designation to do? Getting your CA at a firm is a brutal struggle. You'll make less and work more than if you had gone straight to industry, however you get to see things at a higher level. You also get exposed to several industries so you can make a more informed decision about what industry you want to eventually work in.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for the reply! I definitely am going to try and get some job experience this summer now that i have a few basic accounting courses under my belt. Here is the thing about me. I am very entrepreneurial and really want to start my own business one day. I do not no what yet haha, but i just feel that its gonna happen. I am orientated like that. I also have big aspirations, i would love to be involved with a company in top management. I enjoy management, marketing and accounting. I think i would really enjoy being in a consulting sort of position or own my own consulting business. (This is all just me dreaming) So based on a little about me what do you think about the CA vs the CMA? I truly do not understand either of them very well because most people i talk to are highly opinionated on their designated and are to slanted. I understand i have to put my time in at a company to get anywhere, and maybe i will love the company i work for and stay. But based off how i expressed myself maybe you could shed some more light haha. Thanks! I know for sure that I want to be involved globally and would love to learn a second language (mandarin). Sorry if i seem a little erratic!


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## Max (Apr 4, 2009)

Don't have either certification yet, but know many people with both designations and have researched both as potential options. Both designations will earn you some respect when looking for a job. Probably doesn't really matter which one, just depends where is your focus.

From what I have seen, big +1 on getting a co-op during school. This gives you some kind of work experience after school to help you get a job, and there is very little else a typical graduate has to offer upon graduation, so every little bit helps.

After that, most financial accountants go through the CA process and this typically involves working for an audit firm (PWC, E&Y, etc) where they pay your way through the program in exchange for a contract to work there at relatively low wages for several years after graduation.

You sound like you are more interested in the managerial side of things, which I would say leans you towards CMA for more of a managerial/cost accounting perspective and working in a corporate accounting department (the clients of the audit firms), where the corporation may or may not assist with the costs of the CMA (again usually in exchange for an agreement to work there for several years or repay the costs), but your salary should rise a little more quickly upon graduation depending on the growth potential for your position.

You gather enough work experience and climb through the ranks of management, go out and start your own independent accounting business, cross sides from the audit firm to corporate or vice versa

Hopefully, in the process you end up fulfilling all your dreams, realize that you spent too much time focused on work and neglected your family/personal life and begin to settle down into something where you feel comfortable with work/life balance until you retire.


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## Doug2000 (Apr 6, 2011)

*No to CA*

I have 2 friends, one, a very educated individual worked towards his CA, wrote it 3 times and never passed, he said they only took the top x number of individuals to maintain a provincial membership number. A very tight club. My other friend got his CMA right away and has had some excellent jobs with prominent employers. He is very happy, my first friend, is bitter.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Any accounting designation can be a stepping stone to a rewarding career. Getting a CA is certainly a challenge and the exams are difficult. In my case getting my CA was certainly worth it. The vast majority of people who write the exams eventually pass. Sorry your friend is bitter. He does seem to be rationalizing his inability to pass though. I know a few people who didn't get their designation but still went on to successful careers.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Doug2000 said:


> I have 2 friends, one, a very educated individual worked towards his CA, wrote it 3 times and never passed, he said they only took the top x number of individuals to maintain a provincial membership number. A very tight club. My other friend got his CMA right away and has had some excellent jobs with prominent employers. He is very happy, my first friend, is bitter.


I am sorry, but this statement has no merit at all.

For OP, do anything you can to get into coop, without it, unless in your area is a shortage of accounting students you may have difficult time finding relevant position.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Doug2000 said:


> I have 2 friends, one, a very educated individual worked towards his CA, wrote it 3 times and never passed, he said they only took the top x number of individuals to maintain a provincial membership number. A very tight club. My other friend got his CMA right away and has had some excellent jobs with prominent employers. He is very happy, my first friend, is bitter.


I'm glad that people fail out of the program, it makes the designation more prestigious.


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## Brenner (Jan 17, 2012)

All 3 designations (CMA, CA, CGA) are just a stepping stone, it doesn't have to dictate what you will do in your career. Assuming you achieve one, its your experience and hard work that will dictate your career. I would pursue the one that makes the most sense in your situation, they are all kinda structured differently. For instance, if you are working full-time in the field the CGA might be a great option as its designed to be done while you work full-time. In your case though, being still in school, it might depend on your school. Some Universities are very CA focused, giving you all the necessary course work required for that route, and most of the Co-op opportunities will be with CA firms in the audit stream. If that is your school then that is the way you should go, even if you aren't interested in Audit, as its the path of least resistance. Not that its easy, but the schools and your Co-op firms are usually very supportive and once you have your CA you can transition somewhere else other than Audit. Other schools have agreements with CMA for fast tracking to the later stages there, and maybe their Co-op is more focused on industry. So yeah, I would say the specific designation is not all that important, get the one that meshes with your school and experience. Definitely go for Co-op either way.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Joeh said:


> Hey, thanks for the reply! I definitely am going to try and get some job experience this summer now that i have a few basic accounting courses under my belt. Here is the thing about me. I am very entrepreneurial and really want to start my own business one day. I do not no what yet haha, but i just feel that its gonna happen. I am orientated like that. I also have big aspirations, i would love to be involved with a company in top management. I enjoy management, marketing and accounting. I think i would really enjoy being in a consulting sort of position or own my own consulting business. (This is all just me dreaming) So based on a little about me what do you think about the CA vs the CMA? I truly do not understand either of them very well because most people i talk to are highly opinionated on their designated and are to slanted. I understand i have to put my time in at a company to get anywhere, and maybe i will love the company i work for and stay. But based off how i expressed myself maybe you could shed some more light haha. Thanks! I know for sure that I want to be involved globally and would love to learn a second language (mandarin). Sorry if i seem a little erratic!


Since you're going into your 2nd year, you should have time to do more than one summer/coop job before you convocate. I would try to work both in industry and audit while still in university so you can make an informed decision on your own.

Given your entrepreneurial intentions, I think you'll get a better experience in audit. In industry you are one cog in a big machine, and typically stuck to working on one area of the financial statements (ie cash and payroll, AR, AP, PPE etc.). In audit, you get to work in all sections, as well as be exposed to several different companies and industries.


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## Joeh (Jul 20, 2009)

Ethan said:


> Since you're going into your 2nd year, you should have time to do more than one summer/coop job before you convocate. I would try to work both in industry and audit while still in university so you can make an informed decision on your own.
> 
> Given your entrepreneurial intentions, I think you'll get a better experience in audit. In industry you are one cog in a big machine, and typically stuck to working on one area of the financial statements (ie cash and payroll, AR, AP, PPE etc.). In audit, you get to work in all sections, as well as be exposed to several different companies and industries.


I am not sure i understand your perspective on audit and how that would fuel my entrepreneurial tendencies. Could you elaborate more on that? Thanks!


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Joeh said:


> I am not sure i understand your perspective on audit and how that would fuel my entrepreneurial tendencies. Could you elaborate more on that? Thanks!


I'm referring to how audit exposes you to a variety of companies, industries and sections of the financial statements, whereas in industry you are exposed to one company, one industry, and one section of the financial statements. You had mentioned that you want to run a business one day, but you're not sure what type of business. Working in audit would expose you to different companies and different industries, as well as all areas of the financial statements. I think that additional exposure would you decide what type of business you want to run and how you want to run it.


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## Joeh (Jul 20, 2009)

Ethan said:


> I'm referring to how audit exposes you to a variety of companies, industries and sections of the financial statements, whereas in industry you are exposed to one company, one industry, and one section of the financial statements. You had mentioned that you want to run a business one day, but you're not sure what type of business. Working in audit would expose you to different companies and different industries, as well as all areas of the financial statements. I think that additional exposure would you decide what type of business you want to run and how you want to run it.


That is definitely an awesome way to look at it and I agree that would probably be the best route based on my interests. I could probably make a wide variety of contacts that way to. What sort of secondary skills would make me more valuable as an accountant? I have been looking at second languages and have talked to a Chinese friend about teaching each other, our languages. I look at Mandarin Chinese as an important business language because of our (Canada's) dealings with China. But there are many secondary skills, what do you guys think? Thanks!


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## Max (Apr 4, 2009)

In my opinion, the single most important skill besides core accounting knowledge is Excel. Regardless of what system you work with (we are using 3 or 4 including SAP), we still download everything into Excel for analysis. You need to develop advanced skills quickly, so the more you learn now, the better off you will be.

Learning VBA gives a huge advantage in this as well, since it allows you to automate your more tedious tasks. I took one programming course in University on Java, and have considered it one of the most valuable electives I have ever taken. Even though I don't use Java, the concepts were easy to transport over to VBA.

I think you are right to try and learn a second language as well. That can be very useful, and open many opportunities.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

(Not an accountant but) anyone who works with data will benefit enormously from facility with Excel. Excel is an enormously powerful tool and VBA is a huge time-saver.


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## Joeh (Jul 20, 2009)

I am currently in an excel class and we are using the (Microsoft Windows 7 Comprehensive) Text. This text is approved for expert-level Certification. I am already doing excellent in this class but i will be sure to hang onto the text to go above and beyond the classroom limits. Also with regards to VBA I started to teach myself this last month using (http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/net/vbnet.html). If you guys have any other resources or suggestions they are always greatly appreciated!
Thanks!


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

Joeh said:


> I am very entrepreneurial and really want to start my own business one day ...... I think i would really enjoy being in a consulting sort of position or own my own consulting business


If this is true then you don't want to go into accounting. 

As a career there is good money in accounting but not amazing, plus every business needs them so there are lot of opportunities to find a job.

However, the job is very repetitive following a monthly & yearly cycle .... it's not the essence of entrepreneurial.

If you want to be consulting management on a deal or course of action then I'd recommend going into law. As a lawyer consulting is your job and it pays better.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

LondonHomes said:


> If this is true then you don't want to go into accounting.
> 
> As a career there is good money in accounting but not amazing, plus every business needs them so there are lot of opportunities to find a job.
> 
> ...


Every business requires finance knowledge and having an entrepreneurial mind plus finance knowledge can take one far. Not all accounting jobs are repetitive. With an accounting degree you can really do anything. You can work in different industries, different levels, different sizes, different parts of the world, and so on. It is extremely flexible.

Getting experience is key. This is what employers are looking for to differentiate amongst accounting students coming to look for jobs. 

Disclaimer: I will be designated in *cross fingers* the next year or so.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

LondonHomes said:


> As a career there is good money in accounting but not amazing,.


I am not sure what you mean by amazing money but as an enterprenour accountant you can be quite successfull financially, patners in well run CA firm earn quite a bit.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

Homerhomer said:


> I am not sure what you mean by amazing money but as an enterprenour accountant you can be quite successfull financially, patners in well run CA firm earn quite a bit.


A friend of mine was a young CA and told me a story about going out for a business lunch with one of the firms partners and a big client who owned his own business. During the lunch he looked at both of these guys each wearing an expensive suit and he asked himself who do I want to be? The accounting partner making 400k a year or the client making 4 million?

That's the difference between good and amazing money. Remember that most people don't slog it out in public CA firms long enough to become a partner.

And yes you can work in different industries, different levels, different sizes, different parts of the world, and so on. But in the end it's the same job in one company you are counting tires in another it's beans.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Clients making 4M are not a typical example, however I get your point, it clearly is a choice based on goal and personality, with a steady profession like accountant one can expect decent to very good compensation and unless one is a superstar accountant to the rich and famous the amazing money won't be reached, on the other hand businesses in many fields can make you a whole bunch of money (even though 99.99% of poeple will not make it big). On one end you have limited risk and rewards, on the other there is no limit to either, and the percentage of failures is much higher.


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## Joeh (Jul 20, 2009)

The way i look at is just because i am going into accounting does not mean i am going to be an accountant. Accounting interests me. I see a great deal of value in being able to harness it and use it. I want to be an expert in my field whatever it is. Therefore when i gather the necessarily tools (Accounting, designation, second languages, computer programming) I want to do whats best for my personal aspiration. I like to think, what sort of skills and abilities would that 4 million dollar client want to see? financially successful people love to share the wealth and help others, but they want to see that you can do it! I personally believe that a degree is not very competitive in today's job market, but a particular combination of skills are, e.g a Canadian accountant who can speak mandarin and can write accounting software has many valuable assets! Correct me if i am wrong


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Well who wouldn't want to make $4million? Your story makes ot sound pretty easy, I assure you it is not. I am an accountant and at the peak of my career made that kind of money. It wasn't easy and it isn't common but it is possible and an accounting designation can help. I know lots of entrepreneurial accountants who did exceptionally well owning their own businesses. Just because you have an accounting designation, and have the valuable skills that go along with it, doesn't mean you have to act like the stereotypical, nerdy, accountant. I would say the skills I learned as a CA performing audits of big companies was the most important ones I learned in my career. These skills were ultimately the ones that provided a base for the success I eventually achieved. Good luck.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

My advice(and it has nothing to do with you being a acct or any other profession)This has worked for me:
STAY SINGLE through-out your 20's and don't get married and don't start having babies(I'm way ahead of my peer because i have chosen to postpone this old idea and statue quo,and dating is Fun,easy & light)
Rent a appartment(so you can cut out all the property taxes,maintenace,ect ect)
Insure that you are ''free" to move,make decisions.take chances,devote time to your work and build.

I'm not saying marriage is bad and having kids are bad(you can still do this later)but i have to be blunt and tell you *most*of my friends that have done this are shackled,weighed down,struggling-not only finacially but the challenges of marriage,kids.Build your life so you don't have any restriants-m.o-I'm lapping my married cohorts by a country mile because i don't have the ''life" clutter and it is easy to have a 50% savings rate this way.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Some people might view Donald's stategy of financial independence a little extreme. No kids or family life? Not for me. Could be a lonely old age? I guess the extra money could at least buy better nursing care.


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