# Unemployment in Canada (Ontario>?)



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ok, we are switching the politics around the election to DISCUSSION as it has nothing to do with personal finances..



> That's what happened Friday, when Statistics Canada announced the country added 25,800 new jobs in May, which, besides being all part-time, still didn't in numerical terms make up for the 29,000 lost the previous month.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/creation+Canadas+turn+envious+change/9918960/story.html

RE: Hudak's campaign propoganda..1 million jobs in 8 years may be flawed math..but what is happening on the job creation front. 



> In Ontario, employment gains in the first half of the 2013 were offset out by a massive decline in December, when the province shed 39,300 jobs from a month earlier (26,200 of which were full-time). In all, the province ended 2013 as if the year never happened — the unemployment rate remained at 7.9%, the same as in December 2012, the data shows. *While Ontario’s population ballooned by 139,000 people, the province’s economy only created 24,000 net new jobs.*


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The other statistic worth noting is that Ontario's population grew by 139,000 people in 2013.

It doesn't make much sense to cut 100,000 civil servant jobs, back to 2009 levels, while the population is growing.

At a rate of 140,000 more people a year.....that would be almost 850,000 more people accessing government services.

There are already waiting periods for many services. Fewer public servants would extend the waiting periods longer.

As the economy grows and there are more restaurants to inspect, more homes to provide policing and fire services and so on..........the numbers of public servants is going to increase, unless people are willing to settle for less services and lengthy delays.

Harper already cut staff in Unemployment and the CRA..........and it created such delays that the government had to hire the people back.

I don't think cutting the public service is something most people are interested in doing.


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## Jim9guitars (May 5, 2012)

I work for a private sector/non union company in the construction/renovation supply business. Every time Harper made a round of cuts in the last few years our business dropped off dramatically to the point where many of us got less than 40 hours per week(we're not guaranteed a 40 hour week, when the work runs out on a given day we get sent home off the clock). We still have not recovered most of that business and there have been lay offs. If Hudak cuts 100,000 jobs, more people will lose their jobs in the spin off. Any jobs created in the aftermath will be part time, low wage, probably temporary = no security. Fewer people without secure jobs leads to more people without secure jobs leads to lower sales figures across the board. I don't know who to vote for yet but I know who not to vote for. Just my opinion based on my experience.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

^ How long do you think 'we' can go on borrowing money, (that will never be repaid in all likelihood), to provide the illusion of a 'stable' job market? Sooner or later the bill comes due, and the longer it's delayed the more painful it'll be.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You are right in that sense Nemo.......that we are borrowing to keep our economy alive.......from paying public servants to keep people employed......to buying homes in support of the construction and real estate industries.

How long do we keep it up..........is a good question.

Personally, I think this was the inevitable consequence of free trade deals with low wage countries, who have absolutely no intention of opening up their markets to us..........and who have ensured that we no longer manufacture much of anything that their consumers need. 

Multinational corporations should do well in that environment..........and they have done very well.

National corporations and small businesses............haven't done as well.........and have muddled along depending on consumer spending (debt mostly) and they will be the most hurt in an economic downturn.

Retailers are already showing some weakness in their businesses as consumers are forced to restrain spending.

Consumers have relied on credit.........because their wages haven't kept up. That has earned the banks profits.......but even the banks are now concerned where their future lies. They are left competing for market share from the fewer and fewer consumers who have the ability to take on any more debt.

The local CTC store had a blitz on today to sign up credit cards. A relative is a Walmart manager and the biggest push for them is credit card applications. Retailers are relying more on making money from debt than selling their merchandise.

I don't think it matters much who wins the Ontario election, except for the short term.

Hudak will simply hasten the inevitable on the high speed highway.........while Wynne will take us to the same place on the scenic route.

One day we will wake up and nothing will be left. The Chinese will be laughing at us.......and historians will wonder how we could have been so gullible. 

We did after all.........just give it all away........for a pocket full of mumbles and some promises.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3LFML_pxlY


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

^ And what I find depressingly ironic is that those condemning oil sands activity and pipelines, a couple of the few remaining productive industries, (inasmuch as their output is needed and paid for by other countries), are often totally reliant on the mirage of, and express confidence in, a Three Card Monte economy...while appearing totally oblivious to its frailty.


Edited to add....after posting the above I read this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...iscal-cliff-not-job-creation/article19063509/



> Ontario has been infected by a Keynesian disease, the idea that deficit spending must continue until economic recovery improves. But is low economic growth the new realty for Ontario? And are unsustainable debt and deficits actually discouraging private-sector investment, preventing the recovery that deficit spending is supposed to stimulate?
> 
> If the answer to these questions is yes, then each new deficit is another step closer to the fiscal cliff. *Rather than arguing about how many jobs could be created, Ontarians would be wise to focus on how many would be lost if their province falls over that cliff*.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Keep in mind that before Harper cut the civil service by about 5 percent.....he actually INCREASED it by 10 percent. So we still have a positive net gain...despite all the propaganda to the traditional Conservative base! I have no doubt that Hudak or Harper can cut the size of the public service but it can easily be achieved through normal attrition/retirement.

I think that to a certain degree we are facing a combination of things. A mismatch of skills to jobs, an apparent unwillingness by some people to move to where the jobs are, a shrinking manufacturing sector both in terms of jobs and productivity, and an economy in transition that requires different skills.

Where I live employers are constantly looking for welders. My nephew in Ontario is a welder and cannot find work in his field. He is young and single. He does not want to move so he now works at a minimum wage job with zero future-or EI. Go figure. Do not feel sorry for him at all. We have people coming in from Europe/Asia who are prepared to move for a job and a new life. Canadians are a very spoiled lot.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Retailers are already showing some weakness in their businesses as consumers are forced to restrain spending.


Can you blame them at 29.9% simple interest on store cards? If they get even one consumer signed up and using their store cards carrying a monthly balance over $1000, thats at least $300 per year they make off that ONE CONSUMER that doesn't require warehousing, merchandising, store employees or more brick and mortar style expansion.
Look at the demise of Eatons, once Canada's premier catalogue store, the recent demise of Sears. Most big box stores have already made the transisition to online sales..
and as we have learned already from Canada Post downsizing and letter/package rates going up dramatically....the future business is in package delivery to the home. 

These days, I never shop in the big malls due to the hassles with my disabilty. I simply go online and look at the big box stores have available and order online. 
My order is delivered in 2-3 working days and right to my door.




> Hudak will simply hasten the inevitable on the high speed highway.........while Wynne will take us to the same place on the scenic route.


One thing for sure, there will be a lot of change over the next 4 years as big box stores and other make the transisition to selling online..it's become big business and fewer instore employees. Most of the employees at these stores are now part timers with some benefits of course, but no longer there long enough (10 years or more) to have employer pension plans vested for them.



> One day we will wake up and nothing will be left. The Chinese will be laughing at us.......and historians will wonder how we could have been so gullible.


Chinese are already laughing...all the way to their bank! There are so many Chinese products in these big box stores now...it boggles the imagination.
In the future, I wouldn't be surprised if CTC has a hidden name change to Chinese Trade of Canada.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fraser said:


> I think that to a certain degree we are facing a combination of things. A mismatch of skills to jobs, an apparent unwillingness by some people to move to where the jobs
> are, a shrinking manufacturing sector both in terms of jobs and productivity, and an e*conomy in transition that requires different skills.*


Many jobs available these days require specialized skills, even in industrial manufacturing where some things cannot be bought in China directly due to contractual requirements and specifications on limited production or "one offs". There will always be a demand for these skills. 

However, the unskilled labour jobs (McD's/TimHortons etc) will be taken up by TFW because even at $9-$11 a hour, they can live extremely frugally and still manage to save money to send to their families in their home countries. Canadians born here will hold out for better paying jobs or only work these jobs if nothing else is available and their EI has run out.


What is going to be the shocker soon... is the shrinking manufacturing/IT and other "medium skilled labour" which can be farmed off to once what was a third world country.
Hudaks' pie in the sky of One million jobs created over 8 years in ONTARIO is simply wishful thinking and a good election slogan. 



> Where I live employers are constantly looking for welders. My nephew in Ontario is a welder and cannot find work in his field. He is young and single. He does not want to move so he now works at a minimum wage job with zero future-or EI. Go figure. Do not feel sorry for him at all. We have people coming in from Europe/Asia who are prepared to move for a job and a new life. *Canadians are a very spoiled lot.*


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> Can you blame them at 29.9% simple interest on store cards?


I doubt this has much to do with it compared to other factors.
When I look at Scotia's Visa CC lineup, there are fifteen at 19.99% (21.99% for cash advance) versus four at lower rates.




carverman said:


> ... If they get even one consumer signed up and using their store cards carrying a monthly balance over $1000, thats at least $300 per year they make off that ONE CONSUMER that doesn't require warehousing, merchandising, store employees or more brick and mortar style expansion.


If the primary focus of the business is selling product and most of the money is coming from store CC's, there's big issues.



carverman said:


> ... Look at the demise of Eatons, once Canada's premier catalogue store, the recent demise of Sears. Most big box stores have already made the transisition to online sales..


I'm not convinced that Eaton's which went bankrupt in 1999 is all that relevant to today, especially for online sales.

I've also read that Best Buy hasn't made the appropriate transition either.



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> ... What is going to be the shocker soon... is the shrinking manufacturing/IT and other "medium skilled labour" which can be farmed off to once what was a third world country...


 .... and the next shocker will be when the starting company discovers that their outsourcing company has outsourced the work so that there's four or five levels deep. At some point, there's going to be someone paid so little that company secrets will be sold .... but by the time management understands the risks, it will likely be too late.


Cheers


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Speaking of the Chinese laughing at us....
I bought a set of open end/box end Mastercraft short wrenches at CTC a couple days ago because they were on sale for Father's day, and advertised at almost 50% off the
"regular retail" price on the shelf tag.

Nice packaging, heavily chromed..they certainly looked attractive to the eye..got them home, tried the MM set first on a 10 mm nut...*surprise too small..it doesn't fit the nut.* 
Tried another size on another larger nut..same thing. 

Took both back today and got my money back....I call this stuff "Chinese Junque".


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