# The car thread!



## SkyFall

Hey guys, 

By any chance we have some car fanatics here?

Have you seen the new BMW 4 series beautiful (which will replace the 3 Series coupe, so the 3 series will only be available with 4 doors). They do it to compete with Audi A5. (the interior is amazing)









And also you have Mecerdes CLA which will be cheaper than the C series!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8370553351_f09f60174b_b.jpg


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## m3s

Maybe it's just me but cars keep getting uglier every remodel for the sake of somehow looking "new"er. BMW used to be a driver's car that was more about function than form. They proved that a sports car could be comfortable and affordable and functional at once, without looking like some teenager's car. All of that is long gone imho.

I considered some day replacing my old 3 series with a similar-sized 1 series, until I drove one and all the BMW qualities I liked are all gone. Maybe the 2 series will be what I was looking? I think I'll go back to winter beaters and motorbikes for fun. Does Canada get any Audi quattro diesel yet?!?


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## none

I have an Audi A3 and it is awesome.


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## lonewolf

The shape of the car that is in style some say can predict the stock market.


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## slacker

Can't afford nice cars after maxing out RRSP/TFSA, rent, saving for down-payment, supporting my family. 

How do people afford such nice things?


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## Mall Guy

slacker said:


> Can't afford nice cars after maxing out RRSP/TFSA, rent, saving for down-payment, supporting my family.
> 
> How do people afford such nice things?


Thanks to being supplied with company car (Audi A4), I haven't paid any car expenses for 15 years . . . taxable benefit be damned !!!


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## none

i bought mine is the US before i moved up. Saved about 30%.


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## Cal

My car is at the other end of the spectrum. 2002 Chrysler Sebring. It still runs and is a joke around the office. But in all honesty I get a kick out of driving it, rust, squeaks and all.


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## Sherlock

I just saw the 4 series in person at the Detroit auto show. It's a great looking car, looks better than the e92.

Also the new M6 has 4 doors now, looks great.

I would love a car like that but I just can't justify spending that kind of money on one, yet. Hopefully someday when I have a house with a paid off mortgage and enough investments to generate significant passive income, I will treat myself to a nice car. At this point in my life I buy a 3-4 year old car for about 20k every 5 years or so, without financing. It's about time to upgrade, so will be looking at something like a 2009-2010 Infiniti G37 or Acura TL or BMW 335, preferably manual.


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## SkyFall

In those three choices I'll take the G37x very impressive car! A lot of power, AWD and luxury and it's not that expensive for what you get!


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## bayview

Audi fans might like this: *Self- Driving*


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## Danny

Are people still buying cars in the USA and bringing them over. A few years ago this was popular.Anyone have experience on this.


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## hystat

Are people really so useless at parking that the manufacturers are investing all this $ in self-parking technology. 
I have never found parallel parking or any type of parking particularly difficult. 
A 30 minute lesson in driver's ed 30 years ago and I am empowered to drive an affordable car devoid of all that electronic junk that no techs are able to diagnose properly.


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## SkyFall

well it's like my girlfriend she grew up in the country side...you barely never have to parallel parked, I grew up in the city always parallel parked...I guess it's just a habit


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## SpIcEz

Im a car fan as well. Used to race (time attack and such).

Id love to buy an Audi or BMW but its just not in my price range, I cant justify spending so much for a car.

So I get creative.

This summer I bought a used Mazdaspeed 6 2007. Paid about 12k.

I get a decent sized sedan, luxury (leather, electronics, etc...), AWD and almost 300hp of turbo power.

I love it. Plus, it has a very European look to it.


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## SkyFall

Same goes for me, I can easily finance a brand new car but it will be just stupid. I calculate that I can afford a brand new BMW, Benz or Audi (lower range) but won't be able to move out, nothing else to do since my money will be toward payment hahahha. I bought 2 years ago a 1997 civic which runs really fine, low gas consummation, cheap insurance, etc...

gonna keep it until it dies! Hopefully what I want to do, a simple rule of thumb for me is my car cannot worth more than 10% of my net worth....that's why I think I gonna keep driving old car for a while heheheh except if I get into a crisis and end up buying a sport car heheheh


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## uptoolate

I used to be a big car fan but never really got carried away with it. Once children arrive it is pretty hard to stay enthused about getting something really nice when the kids are so hard on the interior (and sometimes even the exterior). My wife has always seen vehicles as simply a means of getting from A to B and hence doesn't feel the need to really pamper them. Perhaps once the kids have moved away it will be time for something nice but practicality and frugality will still likely get the last word.


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## maxandrelax

I have been driving a Pontiac Vibe 05 manual for years now and love it's space for my toys (hoped to drive it for another 5). Wife has never been comfortable driving manual so in our 1 car household we are reaching a breaking point. Must buy an automatic. Looking at a new Chevy Trax - $2000 off employee discount and $700 off for GM Card (good discounts). The penny pincher in me is hating this situation because I thought I would drive the vibe into the ground, but happy wife happy life? http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/vehicles/chevrolet/trax/overview?tsfsc=1359585049660


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## jcgd

I have a 2006 honda civic sedan and a 2009 Honda fit. No complaints about the civic. Paid $15800 all said and done in 2009. The Fit was a gift and is a decent little car, but it is gutless. It can fit in between all those jerk trucks that take up 1.5 spots with enough room for me to get out but not enough room for them to get back in so that can be satisfying. The gas tank is too small though, only gets around 500km. The civic gets 600km or more in the city.


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## bayview

*BMW M6 vs Merc SL63 AMG*


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## bayview

Canada Top Auto Brands 2013 - Consumer Reports


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## bayview

Last week, Italian carmaker Lamborghini introduced its Veneno supercar, a 750-horsepower beast whose $3.9 million price tag immediately makes it one of the most expensive cars ever produced, putting the $2.4 million Bugatti Veyron and the McLaren F1 (a mere $1 million, although they’re tough to find) in the shade.

The car is a one-off, produced in honor of Lamborghini’s 50th anniversary. Like all Lamborghinis, its name derives from bullfighting; Veneno was apparently a particularly speedy animal from the early 1900s. According to CEO Stephan Winkelmann, the new car is the “fastest, most powerful road Lamborghini we’ve ever built,” reports Automotive News Europe.

Much of the extraordinary cost of the car comes from its carbon fiber monocoque construction, CNN Money reports. While the vehicle is based on Lamborghini’s $400,000 Aventador chassis, all its body panels — including the various splitters, air ducts and diffusers and the massive rear spoiler — are custom-designed to maximize downforce and keep the car close to the road, according to the Chicago Tribune.

The Veneno comes with a 6.5-liter, naturally aspirated V-12 engine, seven-speed automated manual transmission and permanent all-wheel drive, all of which help it accelerate from zero to 60 in 2.8 seconds and hit a top speed approaching 220 miles an hour.


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## m3s

If you gave me that car (or any Italian "show" car) I'd sell it without a test drive, buy a Porsche (that looks way better and laps a track much faster) donate the rest to a German engineering scholarship and warchild


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## Toronto.gal

The cars pre-sold for 3 special people on this planet. 

Extreme & insane.


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## SkyFall

like TG said...its more about the prestige then anything else hehehehe


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## bayview

Dubai Police latest hi-speed car


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## bayview

A surprise endorsement by CR! 

Ranked First in its class!

Would you consider one?


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## fraser

No. And one reason is quality of domestic dealerships. We own a Toyota (97 Camry bought new) and a Honda Accord. The Honda goes to the dealer (under 100K), the Toyota went to the dealer for the first 175K, now it goes to a small local shop and to the dealer depending on the issue/work. 


Over one six year period, I also had a new domestic company vehicle every year. Everything from Lincolns to full load SUV's. And I certainly spent a great deal of time in the dealership having warranty work done on each of those six models.

My last experience was when, after having my 21k km SUV driven up to the customer area after a three week transmission replacement, I noticed that the engine trouble light was on. Apparently the dealer service folks thought that this was an acceptable way to hand over a vehicle to a customer.

I noticed a huge difference in dealer service between these brands-and I found the experience consistent over multiple dealerships in two provinces. Toyota was by far the best, followed closely by Honda. The domestic was a very distant third as measured by quality of service, attitude, etc. My friends who have GM and one of the other two brands that we own tell me that their experience mirrors mine.

A quality vehicle is important to us, but getting great service is just as important. Especially since one of our vehicles has been on the road for 16 plus years.


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## liquidfinance

SpIcEz said:


> Im a car fan as well. Used to race (time attack and such).
> 
> Id love to buy an Audi or BMW but its just not in my price range, I cant justify spending so much for a car.
> 
> So I get creative.
> 
> This summer I bought a used Mazdaspeed 6 2007. Paid about 12k.
> 
> I get a decent sized sedan, luxury (leather, electronics, etc...), AWD and almost 300hp of turbo power.
> 
> I love it. Plus, it has a very European look to it.


Granted it wouldn't be as new but you can get some excellent used BMW / Merc for that money. This is a great example http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/BMW/5+S...17768302_ON20080114122939242/?showcpo=ShowCPO

Of course the KM's will be too high for some but this would get my money for sure. I haven't owned this model but previusly had the E39 540I. It was a 1997 and I paid £4400 so maybe $8k ish at the time I purchased it. Without a doubt the best car I have owned. Budget motoring with quality and refinement. 

a 1998 with 200k is getting a bit old for me to consider now but what a car for the money.
http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/BMW/5+S...ON20071126101829389/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO

I used to throw quite a bit of money at cars. One of my mates back it the UK has just picked up a 2003 911 Turbo. I was full of envy up until the point I asked what it was costing a month. Now I would rather stick the money in the TFSA etc and sit back on a Sunday with a cold beer watching Top Gear.


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## m3s

I'm actually looking for an old E46 or E39 now. I've found a few amazing deals with low kms just not with the engine/trim/colour I want etc. To import a car into Canada without all the conversions it just needs to be 15 years old. What's funny is I can buy a brand new BMW tax free and fully discounted but I don't like any of them. BMW is just not the same anymore... I'm racing an M a few times a month and the cost of tires, brakes and gas alone is hemorrhaging money, but I'm getting my dollar's worth. My 2nd choice was actually a 911 but I occasionally need a car with luggage space and the M just does it all well. I can't imagine commuting in any sports car though... I'm going to switch to super-moto racing instead.


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## Guban

bayview said:


> Dubai Police latest hi-speed car


O to 62 mph in 29 seconds! Must take a while to get to 217 mph! Editors aren't what they used to be.


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## Jon_Snow

Depending on where I am in life this time in 2014, I might be sorely tempted into buying the new BMW M3 or whatever Audi is offering up as competition. The way I look at it, 100k into a car isn't all that different from owning 100k of poorly performing stock. The loss in value when it is sold down the line would be worth the enjoyment of owning such a vehicle for me - non-car people this must seem like madness. :tongue-new: Of course I would only consider such a thing if I continue working for several more years. If I pull the ER ripcord in the next years, this all a pipe dream. Would I really work another 3 or 4 years just to fund an expensive car desire? Probably not.


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## m3s

Jon, you can have my M3 or I will even buy you the new one.. in exchange for a few years ER kayaking with the whales :tongue-new: Fancy cars are just for tolerating the commute to work while some of us have to put in time. Sign up for one of the many BMW Performance Training if you want the life experience (you won't ever get on the drive to work)


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## Cal

Any pics of the crappy-est car owned by a CMF user? My car is the office3 joke, an '02 Sebring, but it keeps chugging along, so I keep driving it, at least until my emissions test at the end of next year. It is not pretty, but I doubt it is worthy of a pic for the worst car.


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## nathan79

2000 Pontiac Sunfire here. It's hardly a beater, though it has 262K on the odometer. There's really nothing wrong except the AC no longer works. I was going to fix it but haven't got the parts yet. The overall appearance of the car suggests a much lower mileage.

The only person in my office who might be in a position to joke drives a 1998 BMW 3-series. But he's in no position to gloat considering how much money he's had to spend on it this year.

Pretty much everyone else I know drives cheap and/or old cars, so they'd be hypocrites to say anything.


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## bayview

Sorry to interrupt the discussion.

How BMWs are made


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## Adam M.

I'm also a bit of car fanatic but really interested in old motorcycles. Gives me all the adrenaline i need for fraction of the money some need to spend on the fast cars .

For cars, only commuting is possible in my case - I found Subaru gives me a bit of fun during commuting, real drivers car.


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## physik3r

slacker said:


> Can't afford nice cars after maxing out RRSP/TFSA, rent, saving for down-payment, supporting my family.
> 
> How do people afford such nice things?



Easy! They don't do all the things you just described


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## m3s

Adam M. said:


> I'm also a bit of car fanatic but really interested in old motorcycles. Gives me all the adrenaline i need for fraction of the money some need to spend on the fast cars .


Spending another sunny weekend tinkering with a 350hp engine instead of racing it... never again! I'm going to look at an old civilized 328ci tomorrow and until then enjoy my Chimay bleue. I realized I can fix everything on my bike now in a quarter of the time and it's a lot less complicated. One sports car was enough, bikes from now on



physik3r said:


> Easy! They don't do all the things you just described


I do all of them except one


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## 1sImage

Here's my driveway, Jeeps mine aswell..... There a Echo not in the pic, but its around. Few more cars at our summer house.


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## Jon_Snow

Just saw the debut of the 2014 M4. Dead sexy as expected. Haven't revealed HP numbers yet.

I have always considered myself to be a ultra-conservative, responsible person. It may be time to do something that makes little sense. Wonder what my wife might say. She has been a bit leery about my ER plans, so I'll just tell her that by buying this car, I will work for a few more years. :biggrin:


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## bayview

M4 looks gorgeous!

On the other hand a Survey of Beemer drivers


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## m3s

bayview said:


> On the other hand a Survey of Beemer drivers


Jerks have more money as a basis of capitalism. Kevin O'Leary's first car was a BMW for example. If you think all X's are Y's though, your cancerous attitude always reflects back at you. I have seen this many times from travel. Jerks get the girls as well, so maybe they're good at something? It seems like once a brand becomes famous the fashionistas all come out of the woodwork.

The old BMW M3 was actually the best bang-for-the-buck all around functional modest sporty car on the market. I took the M3 logos off and downsized the wheels and the average person would never know it can run circles much more expensive and flashy cars. I've found the faster a car looks, the slower it's actually driven on the track. The status symbol is a huge negative unless you like shallow attention. I just like fun cars.

BMW's used to be the modest driver's car with functional engineering. Now they are just appealing more and more to the status symbol for the masses. The M4 is all looks... The specs aren't out, but I can tell just by the rims and brakes. F1 cars have small rims because massive rims degrade everything functional from performance to comfort (besides adequate space for brakes) Looks are much more profitable though.


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## donald

Whenever i see some guy(esp middle aged and esp the starter line)I always think the guy is reaching and or has low self esteem,similar to a middle aged guy with a bad hair dye job or a comb-over......
I think a lot of people probably do not treat bmw driver's the same as the guy driving a honda/toyota or even a acura.I bet in a lot of instances on the road the general public treat minor infractions or poor driving is amplified towards a bmw driver,they trigger more emotions in other drivers and bmw drivers are maybe acting in kind!lol,eg:
"look at this rich a-hole,hey buddy learn to use your signal''(when he actually did)
''i won't let this rich prick in,f him''
The road is one place we are all equal and in general it's a eye for a eye i'm convinced you can tell a lot about people how they treat other driver's.
I'm a truck guy through and through,i could never drive anything else i don't think.


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## humble_pie

not that a dirt-poor pie from the bottom of the scullery would know anything, but that m4 looks like one of the ugliest cars to ever hit a showroom.

the rage for fat snub-nosed grilles is already coming to an end, why did hot-shot bmw designer Florian Nissl stick a retro end-of-life monster grille tumour smack on the m4 nose.

in 10 years time bulbous snub grilles are going to be auto design jokes, like edsels & fins.


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## Jon_Snow

Maybe its a generational thing, but I would have no problem being seen in the M4... in a subdued metallic grey, cause I'm a subdued guy.

Come on Pie, "one of the ugliest cars to hit a showroom"? :biggrin:


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## humble_pie

Jon_Snow said:


> Come on Pie


yea from the front it looks like a pushup bra w training wheels for a fat lady each:


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## My Own Advisor

@Pie, funny


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## tygrus

Just like the $300 jeans and $1000 purse marketing, something less than half the price and does exactly the same thing. Buy a ford fusion, put the other $25k in an ETF, or be stupid and lose it to depreciation and over priced parts and service.

And people should stop talking up the superior quality engineering in BMW, Mercedes and other brands. Ever see a 30 year old BMW still on the road? Nope, but I see lots of chevys and fords still running around town in their second life. Endless cheap parts at the salvage depot and you cna still take a set of wrenches and work on it if you had too.


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## Adam M.

30 year old ?
Lots of them in Europe .
Parts are cheaper there.


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## SkyFall

like I told myself I will keep my WRX hahhahaha except if I get a mad promotion.......oh wait NO even with a promotion I won't hahahha gonna pay the car debt and start building more real assets!


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## pwm

Anyone here ever use Dry Shine or a product like it? Canadian Tire sells it.


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## bayview

*Russian Commercial *

(sorry no translation :love-struck


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## HaroldCrump

This is my all time favorite car commercial.
This ran when the Mini Cooper was first introduced to the North American market (initially in the US only).
Must watch


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## bayview

Nice one Harold.

Amazing! Falcon nesting in a tree.

Bird watchers are welcomed.


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## bayview

Man unhappy with BMW smashes his own 6 Series!


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## none

I'm surprised this one hasn't made the thread yet.

*For car lovers only.*


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## Toronto.gal

bayview said:


> Russian Commercial (*sorry no translation *:love-struck


Sure you/anyone can translate it: dance machines and skaters on ice. 

Loved the music!


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## humble_pie

для Вашего здоровья


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5RAaW_1FzYg


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## bayview

Germans offer winter relief to Canadians


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## bayview

Best Car in the World - not the priciest!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...r-the-best-car-in-the-world-at-any-price.html


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## SkyFall




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## m3s

Chris Harris is a smart guy. You have to "listen" between the lines though. 600-700hp wouldn't do much on those tight winding euro roads.. I could easily outrun them all on my 80hp bike, while stopping for 15L of gas every 400km instead of 60L after 250km! I think he even alludes to this when he says "The world went nicely mental.. and I'm more than happy to drive them when the manufacturers let me.. thank you very much"

Now listen to how he can't stop praising the little $27k Subaru BRZ. *"We need to get back to a stage when we're enjoying performance because of its nature.. not because of its quantity"*






For daily driving on Canadian roads I think the Nissan Z is a great choice. In principle though, I have to go with the BRZ. It's cheap, fuel efficient, fun and easy to modify or work on. It's one of the few popular cars on the Nordschleife and they're running circles around those $$$ exotics (designed for curb appeal really.. I've never seen one driven properly on the track) The street cars designed for drivers are Porsches.. and then Subaru made a reasonably priced one!

Skyfall, didn't you work at Subaru?


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## m3s

Neat Japanese documentary about the unique design of the BRZ


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## KaeJS

m3s said:


> For daily driving on Canadian roads I think the Nissan Z is a great choice.


Oh, it is. :biggrin:

I wish I had the NISMO 370Z, though.


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## SkyFall

@m3s yes I used to work for Subaru 

I agreed with what you are saying with about cheaper car being more ''fun'' for the price. I have a Subaru WRX Hatchback 2012, but when I was shopping I was looking at the BRZ/FRS as well.... unfortunately I wanted something I could drive year long without worrying about snowstorm..... and since the BRZ/FRS is rwd... I went with the WRX (which was my dream car growing up, excluding exotic cars). I am super happy with the car, of course it's cheap but boy it's super fun. I am not really care to have leather seats and techs.... I want the pure fun while driving, which is the case when I drive the WRX.

My brother-in-law bought a C350, the car is more nice in term of luxury, feels heavier and is nice to drive and also more powerful than my car 305hp vs 265hp (mine) but driving the WRX in term of performance is way more fun... but the C350 is amazing in term of comfort and luxury.

My next car in a few years will be probably an automatic ''luxury'' sedan hahahhahah because driving stick in the traffic is killing me hahahha


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## Mechanic

I have driven and worked on a ridiculous variety of cars over the last 40 yrs. One of my all time favourites is still a Porsche 911. Porsche are such superb driver's cars imo and I absoultely love the PDK transmission as I can shift and the wife can put it in D, lol. I must admit that I was a stickshift guy till I got to really try that PDK on a track. I was fortunate enough to attend one of the Porsche World Roadshows and got to drive them all a couple of years back. Almost bought a new one about a year ago, even had the wife on board, but the dealer wasn't dealing much, so I walked away. Hindsight says it was smart, as it was not very practical and there's no doubt a few tickets would accumulate, couldn't even fit the golf clubs either, lol. I am waiting with curiosity to check out the new twin turbo Porsche Macan, may be a more practical vehicle that I can justify as a daily driver. No doubt there will still be a 911 in my garage at some point down the road, will likely wait for a good deal on year or two old, low mileage model that someone else gets too many tickets with first.


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## SkyFall

Mechanic said:


> I have driven and worked on a ridiculous variety of cars over the last 40 yrs. One of my all time favourites is still a Porsche 911. Porsche are such superb driver's cars imo and I absoultely love the PDK transmission as I can shift and the wife can put it in D, lol. I must admit that I was a stickshift guy till I got to really try that PDK on a track. I was fortunate enough to attend one of the Porsche World Roadshows and got to drive them all a couple of years back. Almost bought a new one about a year ago, even had the wife on board, but the dealer wasn't dealing much, so I walked away. Hindsight says it was smart, as it was not very practical and there's no doubt a few tickets would accumulate, couldn't even fit the golf clubs either, lol. I am waiting with curiosity to check out the new twin turbo Porsche Macan, may be a more practical vehicle that I can justify as a daily driver. No doubt there will still be a 911 in my garage at some point down the road, will likely wait for a good deal on year or two old, low mileage model that someone else gets too many tickets with first.


I think that a Porsche is the best ''super car'' you can have as dailydrive.... it's not too huge, you can basically drive it year-long! I want a Porsche in the future as well!


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## m3s

The 911 is my all time favourite car :smile: If you gave me any Ferrari, Bugatti, Maserati, Lamborghini etc I would be trading it for a GT3 ASAP. The only 2 cars I looked for in Europe were 911's and E46 M3's. I went with the M3 because it's more common/affordable on the track here, and I could still pick up a few people at the airport with their luggage etc. It's nice to be able to throw the bicycle in the trunk, luggage, or a set of rims with tires from time to time. I actually fit a 55" LCD in the trunk with the back seats down haha

The latest autos are faster on the track now and even fuel efficient. I follow SMGs and they are pulling away when I shift, and they can downshift where I wouldn't dare. It's hard to keep up with them, but I enjoy the challenge. I just refuse to commute in traffic.. in the summer I commute by bicycle or motorbike anyways. The autos are more expensive up front, more prone to fail, and lower resale on a sports car. There are new leftover BRZ's $5k off.. cheaper than used ones.. but they're auto, and auto costs more doesn't it? :stupid:

I was going to buy a WRX hatch when I was in Canada, I love the utility of them! I also love the concept of the BRZ, but the reality is Canadian roads are too rough plus winter.. RWD doesn't scare me in snow but it's the matter of weight on the driving wheels. BRZ is 50-50 balanced though so it might be ok with some sandbags in the trunk.. 911 with rear engine would be even better though. The thing that keeps me away from Porsche is the price for parts in Canada. Where I live in Canada there are no Porsche or BMW dealers hahaha


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## KaeJS

m3s said:


> BRZ is 50-50 balanced though so it might be ok with some sandbags in the trunk.. 911 with rear engine would be even better though.


Mode, I know you know your car stuff, but I am of the opinion that you should never put sand bags in the trunk of a rwd car.

Yes, you might be able to get a little more grip at times, but more weight means that the force of inertia is greater and this limits your stopping ability. Slowing/stopping the car is much more important in the snow than starting/going.


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## RBull

KaeJS said:


> Mode, I know you know your car stuff, but I am of the opinion that you should never put sand bags in the trunk of a rwd car.
> 
> Yes, you might be able to get a little more grip at times, but more weight means that the force of inertia is greater and this limits your stopping ability. Slowing/stopping the car is much more important in the snow than starting/going.


In absolute terms with a full panic stop under more ideal conditions you would be right. However you aren't considering numerous other more important factors:

Weight isn't the only important factor with stopping in snow. Much of your stopping comes from tire grip (composition) and the build up of snow in front of the tires. ie a light car with skinny bald tires won't stop well in slippery conditions. It also don't have virtually any forward traction. 

A rear drive car is typically more performance oriented and will out brake most other vehicles on the road in wet or dry conditions, so under most normal conditions in winter likely is starting with a safety advantage. 

A couple of hundred pounds of sand is not a significant load in most vehicles and is engineered into the load capacity/safe operation of virtually all vehicles on the road. If this amount of weight was a major consideration people would be well advised not to carry any vehicle passengers during winter. 

The benefit of having forward traction especially in areas where there are elevation changes greatly exceeds any slight reduction in *maximum* braking conditions with some trunk weight. Ever see what plays out in traffic with cars with no winter forward traction, especially on hills?

I would not drive a rear drive vehicle in winter, in my area of the Maritimes without weight in the trunk. It is less safe.


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## MasterCard

I'm 24, looking to buy my 1st car. I'm looking at getting a G35x...but really considering getting a Coupe.
Will I have to park it in the winters in Toronto? 
Truth be told, if it's bad outside I won't be driving - I'll work from home. It'll mainly be parked at the GO Station all day long.
Can a coupe hold up in the winter with snow tires? I just love the G35 Coupe from 03-06...so beautiful, it's timeless. Looks great to this day.

Also, really loving the Q50. The IS250 is hideous especially at the back.


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## hystat

I have carried sand, softener salt, groceries, outboard motors and more in the trunk of my RWD car - never caused an issue. However, the traction control is amazing and it didn't need weight to be excellent in the winter. 

Pickup trucks are RWD and certainly no one suggests they can't carry sand. As long as you don't exceed the capacity in the owner's manual, you'll be fine carrying a bit of winter weight.


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## m3s

KaeJS said:


> Mode, I know you know your car stuff, but I am of the opinion that you should never put sand bags in the trunk of a rwd car.
> 
> Yes, you might be able to get a little more grip at times, but more weight means that the force of inertia is greater and this limits your stopping ability. Slowing/stopping the car is much more important in the snow than starting/going.


I see what you're saying about inertia and I would like to see an experiment done at different speeds, weights, and conditions out of curiosity. I tow a ski doo trailer in the winter, and certainly that extra weight pushes the car.. and even worse pushes in the direction of the tongue if you have to brake while turning. The weight of the sandbags adds friction/grip and is much less than a loaded trailer. These are old farmer tricks passed down for generations :tongue:

The thing with the weight in a car is that driving makes it dynamic. During hard acceleration, weight shifts to the rear wheels giving better grip to the rear wheels, which is a big reason why sports cars are RWD. During braking, weight shifts to the front wheels which is why most street cars have bigger front brakes.  This is not ideal though.. 4 wheels braking equally is like AWD vs 2 in reverse. The advantage again is to have more weight behind the rear axle.

That is part of what makes the 911 such an amazing car. It gets better acceleration and braking performance simply by being RWD with a rear engine. The Subaru BRZ being 50-50 balanced I'm curious how it works in the snow.. I love the M3 in the snow and it is also RWD with 50-50 weight, but the BRZ is quite a bit lighter. I'm not sure if it would be better or worse.


----------



## SkyFall

MasterCard said:


> I'm 24, looking to buy my 1st car. I'm looking at getting a G35x...but really considering getting a Coupe.
> Will I have to park it in the winters in Toronto?
> Truth be told, if it's bad outside I won't be driving - I'll work from home. It'll mainly be parked at the GO Station all day long.
> Can a coupe hold up in the winter with snow tires? I just love the G35 Coupe from 03-06...so beautiful, it's timeless. Looks great to this day.
> 
> Also, really loving the Q50. The IS250 is hideous especially at the back.


When I was working at the Subaru dealer, one of our guy had a G35 coupe..... when winter came.... he was crying...he was trying to never fully stop at a red light because he knew he would have a hard time get going hahhahaha he end up with a WRX 

might I suggest the G37x? at least with that one you have the awd


----------



## MasterCard

SkyFall said:


> When I was working at the Subaru dealer, one of our guy had a G35 coupe..... when winter came.... he was crying...he was trying to never fully stop at a red light because he knew he would have a hard time get going hahhahaha he end up with a WRX
> 
> might I suggest the G37x? at least with that one you have the awd


Even with winters it was that bad eh?

It would be out of my budget, looking for something under $10K.

Is it me or did Infiniti just mess up the G35/G37 between 2007-2012?
Something about the 04-06 looks much better than 07-12 era, Q50 is amazing no less.


----------



## SkyFall

MasterCard said:


> Even with winters it was that bad eh?
> 
> It would be out of my budget, looking for something under $10K.
> 
> Is it me or did Infiniti just mess up the G35/G37 between 2007-2012?
> Something about the 04-06 looks much better than 07-12 era, Q50 is amazing no less.


yeah... here in Quebec we MUST have winters on from Dec 16th to April 16th.

It's driveable but you have to be very gentle with the throttle and in snowstorms forget it... once again you can drive it but I just prefer to not deal with the hassles .

and yeah I prefer the older generation aswell


----------



## KaeJS

RBull said:


> In absolute terms with a full panic stop under more ideal conditions you would be right. However you aren't considering numerous other more important factors:


You are correct that when braking, the tires/grip with the road play a huge part in stopping efficiently. I disagree that adding weight will help you, though. In the snow, it is very hard to even get grip in the first place. More weight will not equate to more grip - not in the snow, at least. The added inertia will work against your grip theory when the car is already in motion. (Think of "an object in motion will tend to stay in motion")

Weight in the winter actually _is_ a major consideration. It's just that most people don't actually consider it.


----------



## KaeJS

MasterCard said:


> Even with winters it was that bad eh?
> 
> Is it me or did Infiniti just mess up the G35/G37 between 2007-2012?
> Something about the 04-06 looks much better than 07-12 era, Q50 is amazing no less.


RWD sucks in the winter. I will give you a scenario: 

In November, I was trying to get the most out of my Z before putting it away for the winter.
Well, it started snowing one night on my way home from work (GTA Area). I had all seasons on, so, you have to factor this in, as well.

I kid you not - I was turning left at an intersection going 20km/h and when I shifted into second gear (yes, I know how to shift properly, no I did not jerk the car or apply gas when I shifted) I slid out in the intersection. The VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) tried to save me, but in reality almost costed me a crashed Z. It braked the rear passenger wheel to try and correct my slide, but then I just started sliding more.

I punched the VDC button off and took control manually. Much better.

I find that the traction control is very useful and effective - but not in the snow.

RWD is amazing - but I would hate to have to deal with it in winter. I couldn't even imagine driving RWD every day in the winter. What a pain in the ***.

And yes - I also agree. Infiniti uglified the G35/37.
However, I understand why they did it. They wanted to appeal to a more mature crowd.

Master, maybe you should save up more $$$ and get a G37 S


----------



## m3s

KaeJS said:


> I find that the traction control is very useful and effective - but not in the snow.
> 
> RWD is amazing - but I would hate to have to deal with it in winter. I couldn't even imagine driving RWD every day in the winter. What a pain in the ***.


If I forget the traction control on in the snow, it doesn't take long before it annoys me and I have to turn it off. I grew up driving snow-packed back roads and letting the tires spins (slowly) is ok.. it lets you dig down through the snow to pavement for example. If I park in just a few inches of snow it is IMPOSSIBLE to get moving again with traction control on... hilarious! I wonder how many people call a tow truck for that!

If I forget to turn traction control off at the track now, it annoys me at the first turn. Even with a track mode, the WORST thing you can do when spinning around a turn is to abruptly cut the throttle or brake.. It's very scary and unpredictable to me.. but it might be useful for senile old people or something. I enjoy driving RWD in the snow in the sense of a challenge anyways, I can see why people don't like it.

I think all cars in Canada should have an option for LSD.. but if you say LSD to a Canadian they would probably think you're on acid!


----------



## hystat

Traction control is awful on some cars. On others it is sweet. Ford seems to have it right. But putting a set of rear brake pads on every spring is annoying.
My Cadillac had awful TC, and they made you fish around in the glove box to switch it off.


----------



## KaeJS

m3s said:


> I think all cars in Canada should have an option for LSD..


Agreed.

Also agreed that cutting throttle in any scenario is scary and unpredictable.


----------



## Sustainable PF

We got a 2006 Civic LX from a no longer wanting to drive 82 yr old with 48,500 KM on it for $8k.
Pretty happy about this purchase in terms of how the car was treated, maintained, driven, lack of abuse and decent price.


----------



## cainvest

KaeJS said:


> RWD is amazing - but I would hate to have to deal with it in winter. I couldn't even imagine driving RWD every day in the winter. What a pain in the ***.


It's not so bad, the biggest problem I see is sports oriented cars have terrible ground clearance. Depending on your area, if you get deep ruts then you're in trouble. I also found that high performance summer tires work well on ice, they're almost as soft as winter tires so I get pretty good traction, of course in the snow they really suck due to the narrow tread. If I was driving my RWD in the winter for my daily driver it would have studded winters on for sure. Traction control is a mixed bad, sometimes good and sometimes not ... at least you can turn it off when you need too.


----------



## RBull

MasterCard said:


> I'm 24, looking to buy my 1st car. I'm looking at getting a G35x...but really considering getting a Coupe.
> Will I have to park it in the winters in Toronto?
> Truth be told, if it's bad outside I won't be driving - I'll work from home. It'll mainly be parked at the GO Station all day long.
> Can a coupe hold up in the winter with snow tires? I just love the G35 Coupe from 03-06...so beautiful, it's timeless. Looks great to this day.
> 
> Also, really loving the Q50. The IS250 is hideous especially at the back.


I owned both. 

An '04 M6 coupe and an '08 X sedan. Let me know if you have specific questions. I suggest going to G35driver.com to research etc. My SN is the same over there.


----------



## RBull

KaeJS said:


> You are correct that when braking, the tires/grip with the road play a huge part in stopping efficiently. I disagree that adding weight will help you, though. In the snow, it is very hard to even get grip in the first place. More weight will not equate to more grip - not in the snow, at least. The added inertia will work against your grip theory when the car is already in motion. (Think of "an object in motion will tend to stay in motion")
> 
> Weight in the winter actually _is_ a major consideration. It's just that most people don't actually consider it.



It appears you're not experienced with driving a RWD vehicle in the winter or familiar with vehicle dynamics, if you believe additional weight over the drive wheels will not aid traction. This is a well known fact by those that are. Simply, if a RWD is stuck in snow you can often get it moving by simply sitting a person or two in/on the trunk, if you have not seen this before. 

What you haven't done is demonstrate is that weight in itself is unsafe in winter. Using your theory a car that is much lighter would be much safer in winter as it would stop much shorter. I can find no data to support this. In fact in this stopping distance calculator there isn't even a weight factor built in which suggests it is a negligible factor, even when choosing snow condition on their menu. 

http://forensicdynamics.com/stopping-distance-calculator

From my own study of advanced driving, instruction and road and track experience I know weight does in fact add some braking distance, but not a lot when well within the vehicles load capacity,such as with a couple of sand bags. Heavy weight is normally only important in maximum braking conditions or at times when the brakes will heat up like in the mountains, at the track, or towing a heavy load such as a trailer, but this is much different than a couple of sand bags. Weight becomes less important when maximum braking traction is not available such as in snowy roads. On snowy roads the tire compound and amount of snow plowing becomes a bigger factor, and a smart driver can adjust their driving habit and following distance for this small difference. What a driver can't do without extra weight in many rear drive cars or trucks is gain forward traction in winter snow, especially on elevations. This can make for some very unsafe conditions if you have not seen it for yourself. Those with traction try and keep their momentum uphill by passing the stopped or slowing vehicle in the oncoming lane or risk stopping and getting stuck themselves, creating a bigger bottle neck.

There may be a slight trade off with a bit of extra weight in the RWD vehicle but the added safety of forward traction, and less chance of an over steer condition. Oversteer conditions are common on wet or snowy roads where a less experienced or skilled driver loses some grip in the front steering and then overcompensates by cranking the wheel and the vehicle spins, and is of course a factor for all vehicle types. Additional rear weight helps prevent this and it is the reason why tire and car manufacturers ideally want snows at all 4 wheels and always the best condition ones at the rear. This knowledge has to be considered much more than what you seem to be doing, by focusing only on the weight of a couple of sandbags.

Do you not think manufacturers and government would have warnings on vehicles and owners manuals to minimize all weight in the vehicle in the winter, if it were a "major consideration"? If your theory is right they might even suggest different load ratings for winter and summer.

In closing I agree weight should be kept at a minimum whenever possible, as it negatively affects fuel economy, stopping distance and handling under normal conditions. If you have a RWD and do winter driving in slippery conditions (especially with grades in road) you would be wise to consider placing additional weight over the drive wheels, and factor this into to your driving habits. You may not agree with this but I've tried to give you some real food for thought.


----------



## RBull

m3s said:


> I see what you're saying about inertia and I would like to see an experiment done at different speeds, weights, and conditions out of curiosity. I tow a ski doo trailer in the winter, and certainly that extra weight pushes the car.. and even worse pushes in the direction of the tongue if you have to brake while turning. The weight of the sandbags adds friction/grip and is much less than a loaded trailer. These are old farmer tricks passed down for generations :tongue:
> 
> The thing with the weight in a car is that driving makes it dynamic. During hard acceleration, weight shifts to the rear wheels giving better grip to the rear wheels, which is a big reason why sports cars are RWD. During braking, weight shifts to the front wheels which is why most street cars have bigger front brakes. This is not ideal though.. 4 wheels braking equally is like AWD vs 2 in reverse. The advantage again is to have more weight behind the rear axle.
> 
> That is part of what makes the 911 such an amazing car. It gets better acceleration and braking performance simply by being RWD with a rear engine. The Subaru BRZ being 50-50 balanced I'm curious how it works in the snow.. I love the M3 in the snow and it is also RWD with 50-50 weight, but the BRZ is quite a bit lighter. I'm not sure if it would be better or worse.


I've had experience pulling a snowmobile trailer in winter as well but only with a couple of different 4x4 vehicles. I've tried in RWD as well. I know what you mean about pushing the vehicle when stopping but a lot of that has to do with only 2 wheels on the trailer and no brakes either. 

BTW, I own an E86 so I can relate to your driving enjoyment and the S54, although I don't drive that one in the winter. 

I agree with what the other stuff you're saying above. I think the BRZ won't be as good with lighter weight.


----------



## KaeJS

RBull said:


> It appears you're not experienced with driving a RWD vehicle in the winter or familiar with vehicle dynamics, if you believe additional weight over the drive wheels will not aid traction. This is a well known fact by those that are. Simply, if a RWD is stuck in snow you can often get it moving by simply sitting a person or two in/on the trunk, if you have not seen this before.
> 
> There may be a slight trade off with a bit of extra weight in the RWD vehicle but the added safety of forward traction, and less chance of an over steer condition. Oversteer conditions are common on wet or snowy roads where a less experienced or skilled driver loses some grip in the front steering and then overcompensates by cranking the wheel and the vehicle spins, and is of course a factor for all vehicle types. Additional rear weight helps prevent this and it is the reason why tire and car manufacturers ideally want snows at all 4 wheels and always the best condition ones at the rear. This knowledge has to be considered much more than what you seem to be doing, by focusing only on the weight of a couple of sandbags.
> 
> Do you not think manufacturers and government would have warnings on vehicles and owners manuals to minimize all weight in the vehicle in the winter, if it were a "major consideration"? If your theory is right they might even have different load ratings for winter and summer.
> 
> In closing I agree weight should be kept at a minimum whenever possible, as it negatively affects fuel economy, stopping distance and handling under normal conditions. If you have a RWD and do winter driving in slippery conditions (especially with grades in road) you would be wise to consider placing additional weight over the drive wheels, and factor this into to your driving habits. You may not agree with this but I've tried to give you some reasons for thinking more openly about it.


Rbull,

I think there is a bit of miscommunication.

All I am saying (and all I have said in my previous posts) is that stopping distance is reduced with added weight on snowy roads due to the increase of inertia. That is all.

I agree with you that extra weight provides greater traction in getting a car moving, or even keeping a car on solid ground. I also agree with you that extra weight in the rear of a car that is front heavy, or does not already have a 50-50 weight distribution, will help the car control better when turning and reduce oversteer, as the back will "swing out" more.

Rbull, I believe we agree on the same things but there was an issue with which information was conveyed or received.

My only concern was saying that sandbags in the trunk of a car will increase your inertia and reduce stopping distance. I had no mention or argument of starting grip, oversteer, or 50-50 weight distribution, as of course all of these are important factors that you have mentioned.


----------



## MasterCard

RBull said:


> I owned both.
> 
> An '04 M6 coupe and an '08 X sedan. Let me know if you have specific questions. I suggest going to G35driver.com to research etc. My SN is the same over there.


Were you able to do well with the RWD Coupe in winter...I'm assuming you had snow-tires?
I won't be driving in snowstorms, but I don't want to park this car the entire winter either.


----------



## RBull

KaeJS said:


> Rbull,
> 
> I think there is a bit of miscommunication.
> 
> All I am saying (and all I have said in my previous posts) is that stopping distance is reduced with added weight on snowy roads due to the increase of inertia. That is all.
> 
> I agree with you that extra weight provides greater traction in getting a car moving, or even keeping a car on solid ground. I also agree with you that extra weight in the rear of a car that is front heavy, or does not already have a 50-50 weight distribution, will help the car control better when turning and reduce oversteer, as the back will "swing out" more.
> 
> Rbull, I believe we agree on the same things but there was an issue with which information was conveyed or received.
> 
> My only concern was saying that sandbags in the trunk of a car will increase your inertia and reduce stopping distance. I had no mention or argument of starting grip, oversteer, or 50-50 weight distribution, as of course all of these are important factors that you have mentioned.


No worries. It's all good. Let's all be safe out there.


----------



## RBull

MasterCard said:


> Were you able to do well with the RWD Coupe in winter...I'm assuming you had snow-tires?
> I won't be driving in snowstorms, but I don't want to park this car the entire winter either.


No the Coupe was a summer car only (parked winters) and had high performance summer tires on it. I do know of other folks in Canada that drove their Coupes year round without any real issue though. A quality set of ice/snow tires is a must though. The 6 speed car (M6) has a limited slip diff if that's what you're looking at. 

The X was awesome in snow. Limited slip front and intelligent AWD that starts at 90% rear/10% front and changes the ratio as needed. 2nd generation doesn't look as nice but more refined and powerful.


----------



## KaeJS

Went to the track with my tenant yesterday...

Enjoy!

350Z Roadster chasing Fiesta ST


----------



## m3s

Some fun slides in there!  I'm guessing the traction control is completely off? How did your tires and brakes hold up?

I've gotten a little faster since I posted a video of my first laps. I'd love to see what time I could do with some coilovers and camber plates, but I think I'll leave it at this


----------



## KaeJS

Mode3sour,

In some of the laps/rounds I have the traction control on, partially off, or completely off. In the video I posted, I sometimes turn off the traction control so I can purposely slide and get the most power out of the car. Depending on the corners, I find that some corners are better to have the traction off, while some are better to have it on.

Of course, it is most fun to have the traction completely off, but I find that I don't always get the best lap times that way. I need to perfect my lapping.

Your video looks like a ton of fun. I wish we had a nice track like that here in the GTA.

You've got me looking into Harry's LapTimer app now...


----------



## KaeJS

Sorry, I forgot to address your question with regards to tires and brakes. I am at work and multitasking.

The tires I were using are horrible. They are Hankook Ventus VS4 All Seasons. The only reason I am using them is to purposely wear them out and then get some nice tires. They came with the car brand new when I bought it and I immediately wanted to change it out. I prefer the Falken RT615 Sport Tire.

The brakes were horrible on the first round. I did 4 laps and came off and they were smoking like no tomorrow. I had to get off the track because I could smell it and I was losing a lot of braking power. I don't know what the deal was, but they seemed to be fine after. I even did a round of 7 laps and went much harder on the brakes and they seemed to be fine. No smoking, either.

My biggest concern is my suspension and tires. I would like to get some stiffer suspension, especially in the rear.


----------



## m3s

Your brakes might have bedded in on the first round. I try to do that on the highway just before the track. It makes my rotors turn blue and the brakes more efficient. I haven't figured out the science behind that one.. The better tires you put on though the faster you go and the more grip you have for braking = brakes overheating or wearing even faster. Then you need track pads etc etc..

I put semi slicks on this year and I wore the front OUTSIDE of them down to the wires now, because I could corner that much harder but I don't have enough negative camber. It's interesting how one change affects everything else. At first I thought the car handled so well and now I make it roll and understeer all over the place. I'd like to set it up better but I don't want to buy another car for the street.

Harry's Laptimer is great. It's made by a German who drives a GT3 and I've given him some feedback and troubleshooting over the years. He has improved it a lot. I don't like to buy a new smartphone every year and the iPhone 4 is sloow now on iOS 7. It works a lot better on a faster phone especially if the GPS refresh rate it better, and it should have your track already listed.


----------



## RBull

KaeJS said:


> Went to the track with my tenant yesterday...
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 350Z Roadster chasing Fiesta ST


Thanks for posting. I'm sure you had a lot of fun. 

I was taught to always keep 2 hands on the wheel. Shift and get the other hand back on the wheel. . I think you might do better just leaving the VDC on, at least in partial until you don't need it.


----------



## RBull

m3s said:


> Some fun slides in there!  I'm guessing the traction control is completely off? How did your tires and brakes hold up?
> 
> I've gotten a little faster since I posted a video of my first laps. I'd love to see what time I could do with some coilovers and camber plates, but I think I'll leave it at this


Great video. Thanks for posting. You are smooth and an accomplished driver. I haven't had the pleasure of driving my car at such a high speed track given what we have available in Atlantic Canada.


----------



## RBull

KaeJS said:


> Sorry, I forgot to address your question with regards to tires and brakes. I am at work and multitasking.
> 
> The tires I were using are horrible. They are Hankook Ventus VS4 All Seasons. The only reason I am using them is to purposely wear them out and then get some nice tires. They came with the car brand new when I bought it and I immediately wanted to change it out. I prefer the Falken RT615 Sport Tire.
> 
> The brakes were horrible on the first round. I did 4 laps and came off and they were smoking like no tomorrow. I had to get off the track because I could smell it and I was losing a lot of braking power. I don't know what the deal was, but they seemed to be fine after. I even did a round of 7 laps and went much harder on the brakes and they seemed to be fine. No smoking, either.
> 
> My biggest concern is my suspension and tires. I would like to get some stiffer suspension, especially in the rear.


It's possible the dynamic control was working a fair bit without you realizing it, working the brakes to help control the car, if it was left in full on position. I had the Brembos on my G and they seemed to work fairly well for my lapping days.


----------



## KaeJS

m3s said:


> Your brakes might have bedded in on the first round. I try to do that on the highway just before the track.


I considered this, but I dismissed the thought since the track is 1 hour away and I had some decent braking before the track. You are probably right, though.

I think you have convinced me to purchase Harry's LapTimer. It looks neat. $20 is a little steep, but it seems to do the job well from your videos. In the grand scheme, $20 is a drop in the bucket if the app does what it is supposed to.


----------



## KaeJS

RBull said:


> I was taught to always keep 2 hands on the wheel. Shift and get the other hand back on the wheel. . I think you might do better just leaving the VDC on, at least in partial until you don't need it.


I have trouble using both hands. It is something that I need to get used to. It would be a learning curve for me, as using 2 hands always feels really uncomfortable, which is why I usually don't bother and use 1 only (I feel like it becomes a chore, and ruins the fun). 2 Hands is the "right" way to drive, though, so I should probably learn it.

The VDC can be a bit of a pain, as it is sometimes very limiting when the trottle is cut in half. Though, I'm not at that point yet where I can consistently have VDC off and boast good lap times. I need more practice going into and coming out of the corners. I feel like when VDC is off, I end up waiting too long to push the pedal all the way in fear of kicking out the rear end prematurely.

I might be going to the track again on the 30th. If I do, I will be sure to post up another video.


----------



## Toronto.gal

KaeJS said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> 350Z Roadster chasing Fiesta ST


I did.


----------



## m3s

RBull said:


> I haven't had the pleasure of driving my car at such a high speed track given what we have available in Atlantic Canada.


The cabot trail is nice, if you can find a day without all the campers :hopelessness: I used to save my pennies as a student and dream of going to shubie, but this is the first and only track I've been on. If you're interested it is actually possible to book a day on the full Nordschleife with 120 cars max (typically 80 Germans in Porsches/BMW and 20 foreigners in rental track imports) The vast majority of tourists go on the public days which are chaotic free for all, closed half the day for cleanups, and not actually cheaper all things considered.


----------



## Ihatetaxes

Just test drove the 2015 Hyundai Genesis. Beautiful big sedan. Standard all wheel drive and filled with great tech. I can't believe I am thinking about a Hyundai but man the company has come a long way in the last 20 years.


----------



## RBull

KaeJS said:


> I have trouble using both hands. It is something that I need to get used to. It would be a learning curve for me, as using 2 hands always feels really uncomfortable, which is why I usually don't bother and use 1 only (I feel like it becomes a chore, and ruins the fun). 2 Hands is the "right" way to drive, though, so I should probably learn it.
> 
> The VDC can be a bit of a pain, as it is sometimes very limiting when the trottle is cut in half. Though, I'm not at that point yet where I can consistently have VDC off and boast good lap times. I need more practice going into and coming out of the corners. I feel like when VDC is off, I end up waiting too long to push the pedal all the way in fear of kicking out the rear end prematurely.
> 
> I might be going to the track again on the 30th. If I do, I will be sure to post up another video.


Yeah, Nissan/Infiniti stability control systems are a little too invasive. Your lines looked quite good. With some more practice you should be leaving that Ford in the dust. 

Yes, you definitely need to do 2 handed driving. No professional would do otherwise. You "feel' what the car is doing through the wheel (as well as the seat)and it is much safer and easier to control the car. Maybe force yourself to do it in your daily driving to start developing a habit. I don't know if you've done any schools but the BMW advanced driving one is worth checking out. Expensive but you'll get classroom and a personal car instructor. It would really help with learning your braking and acceleration points, and overall dynamics. 

I haven't driven at the track for nearly 3 years now. Would like to get back into it next year. Just so much wear on the car though!

Best of luck. Looking forward to the video.


----------



## RBull

m3s said:


> The cabot trail is nice, if you can find a day without all the campers :hopelessness: I used to save my pennies as a student and dream of going to shubie, but this is the first and only track I've been on. If you're interested it is actually possible to book a day on the full Nordschleife with 120 cars max (typically 80 Germans in Porsches/BMW and 20 foreigners in rental track imports) The vast majority of tourists go on the public days which are chaotic free for all, closed half the day for cleanups, and not actually cheaper all things considered.


Driven on the Cabot Trail many times and have done some of the best spots many times as my wife and friends can attest to. Shubie (the roller coaster) is where I've had almost all of my experience. Very short, 11 turns and lots of elevation changes. Rough, lower speed but hard on tires and brakes. Quite a history of great drivers been here though. I've also driven the Ariel Atom at Shannon in Ontario.

I think you've given me a great idea for our next trip to Europe. We flew to Germany but last time was nearly 10 years ago. 

Thanks again for the video. Please post more if you can.


----------



## RBull

Ihatetaxes said:


> Just test drove the 2015 Hyundai Genesis. Beautiful big sedan. Standard all wheel drive and filled with great tech. I can't believe I am thinking about a Hyundai but man the company has come a long way in the last 20 years.


Sounds good. Which version? 

Yes, they sure have come a long way.


----------



## jcgd

Got got a new mustang for the summer. I've been after this car for a while and finally bit the bullet. I had to learn how to start it!







1969 Ford Mustang GT
4-Speed
390 Big Block
Factory GT


----------



## Ihatetaxes

RBull said:


> Sounds good. Which version?
> 
> Yes, they sure have come a long way.


Drove the 5.0 V8 which only comes in one fully loaded version. I am driving a V8 now and used to the power but may go back and try the 6 (and they offered to let me take one home overnight).


----------



## hystat

jcgd said:


> Got got a new mustang for the summer. I've been after this car for a while and finally bit the bullet. I had to learn how to start it!


nice car. 
Put a torque wrench to those lug nuts eery once in a while. I always had issues with lug nuts wanting to loosen on the 5 spoke Cragers .


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## RBull

Ihatetaxes said:


> Drove the 5.0 V8 which only comes in one fully loaded version. I am driving a V8 now and used to the power but may go back and try the 6 (and they offered to let me take one home overnight).


Either way from what I've read it's a great car.


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## KaeJS

jcgd said:


> 1969 Ford Mustang GT
> 4-Speed
> 390 Big Block
> Factory GT


Beautiful pony.


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## RBull

jcgd said:


> Got got a new mustang for the summer. I've been after this car for a while and finally bit the bullet. I had to learn how to start it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1969 Ford Mustang GT
> 4-Speed
> 390 Big Block
> Factory GT


Very nice. I owned a '69 Torino GT 428 CJ back in the 70's and into early 80's.


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## jcgd

hystat said:


> nice car.
> Put a torque wrench to those lug nuts eery once in a while. I always had issues with lug nuts wanting to loosen on the 5 spoke Cragers .


Thanks for the tip.



KaeJS said:


> Beautiful pony.


Why, thank you.



RBull said:


> Very nice. I owned a '69 Torino GT 428 CJ back in the 70's and into early 80's.


Oh lucky. I'd love to give a cobra jet a rip.


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## RBull

jcgd said:


> Oh lucky. I'd love to give a cobra jet a rip.


I was 16 when I got it. Rebuilt the engine bored 30 thou over. Fond memories of finding the power limits......!! Had to replace the left motor mount a few times from the engine torque. 

Is your scoop the functional vacuum ram air like mine was?


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## jcgd

The scoop is cut out to be functional but it's not stock. They did a nice job cutting it out though, it looks clean and well done. 

I need to do a full restoration someday on it. I plan to drive and enjoy it for at least ten years before I think about starting on it. 

I want to do a few things like upgrade to a limited slip diff and maybe add disc brakes. The drums are performing rather well though. I'm not having trouble stopping as long as I leave a little distance.

My engine has a pretty aggressive cam. It's a '67 block out of a Galaxy 500. I roughly measured the stroke and I'm pretty sure it's still a 390. The heads are from a '66 ford, but now sure what exactly. The car hauls pretty good, especially at higher rpms. 

One problem is the exhaust manifold is tapping the passenger shock tower. It sounds brutal at idle when it's most noticeable. Hopefully the rubber in the mount is shot and I can just replace it.


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