# Free phone unlocking starting December 1



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Telco companies will no longer be able to keep phones locked to their service, and will have to unlock phones for free starting December 1
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/crtc-wireless-code-cellphone-1.4161711

And all new phones will have to be provided unlocked. This is very exciting!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

But be prepared to pay full price for the phone if not in a 2 year contract. The telco can't afford to discount a phone to someone who can walk.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

Yup, it's a classic example of "be careful what you wish for"

The gullible public screamed for an end to 3-year contracts.... and got their wish. Say goodbye to days of free $700 iPhones

Now with no more phone lock-in, we'll be raped by the carriers.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> But be prepared to pay full price for the phone if not in a 2 year contract. The telco can't afford to discount a phone to someone who can walk.


When have telcos discounted phones not on contract?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Most pay as you go phones were heavily subsidized...or do you really think you could get them that cheap just because they weren't smart phones?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I've always paid full price for cell phones anyway. There's an added benefit here since the secondary market for used phones will become more useful, since they can now be unlocked.

I have two old phones that I've tried to give to relatives, but could not, because they were locked to old providers. Suddenly my old phones will become useful for others instead of sitting unused in a drawer.

On December 1, I will be phoning in to unlock my old Samsung flip phone. It's a beautifully robust phone and the only reason I'm not using it currently is because it's still locked to Virgin Mobile.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Do you mean increase the price of their services? I doubt they can increase the price of their phones... people can already just buy a phone online for cheap.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Do you mean increase the price of their services? I doubt they can increase the price of their phones... people can already just buy a phone online for cheap.


Jack talked about services, not phones. No one really knows whether plans currently are over-priced (probably) versus under-priced. That $65/month contract may go to $70/month via stealth over time albeit there will be a bit of a competitive nature to pricing. 

Wife and I will be in the market this Fall for a Shared plan (Rogers Share Everything Plan or equivalent). Both of us would like new phones... me upgrading from a Samsung flip phone and her from an iPhone4 SE (I think). She has previously paid for her phone via Koodo's Tab option. We will now wait for how the new plans shake out come Dec 1.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

I would have preferred that CRTC address poor coverage, rather than unlocking phones. Unlocking is a one-time expense (mine was $50), which can quickly be recovered by being off contract with a new carrier. Poor coverage (a recent drop of signal) at my new home leaves me in a communication wasteland. I can no longer contact anyone by phone, including emergency services.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Who is your service with? I'm w Telus and other than a few spots around the lakehead have never lacked for coverage.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

dotnet_nerd said:


> Yup, it's a classic example of "be careful what you wish for"
> 
> The gullible public screamed for an end to 3-year contracts.... and got their wish. Say goodbye to days of free $700 iPhones
> 
> Now with no more phone lock-in, we'll be raped by the carriers.


Most people don't need a $700 phone though (actually a new iphone is $900). The Moto G is $150 and it's a perfectly usable phone that would meet the requirements of the majority of people. There are many other examples of phoens in that prices range too. High end phones should be reserved for those who can afford them.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I spent only about $100 on a Moto E. The phone is fine, does all the smart phone things you'd expect. (Yes bought unlocked and not tied to any carrier)

Plus, there's a great market in second hand phones.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Of all the electronics I've purchased over the years, no other electronic gets used as much or retains its value as well as the iPhone

I could buy a used one at half the price or I could buy a new one and sell it for half the price a few years later. Better to buy new really..

I don't mind paying for something I will use every single day.. it's the electronics that collect dust for months that are a waste imo

I've always bought unlocked phones outright. Not sure how this will play out but it's probably not good for consumers or shareholders


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Jack talked about services, not phones. No one really knows whether plans currently are over-priced (probably) versus under-priced ...


Cheaper cell service prices as well as more choices of plans in similar countries suggests Canada is over-priced.

There seems to also be a high markup for traveling to Latin America as well. For one country I visited, fifty minutes of voice time as $150 CAD. Borrowing a co-worker's flip phone changed that to $10 US for a local number then $1.50 USD for sixty minutes that was good for twenty four hours.

Getting agreements in place likely adds to the costs but the disparity suggests that there is a huge mark up where the Canadian telco is confident people aren't aware of or are not interested in a bit of extra work.


Cheers


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Who is your service with? I'm w Telus and other than a few spots around the lakehead have never lacked for coverage.


Telus. Switched to Bell after two weeks here, as our cellular internet with Bell receives just fine. A bit of a signal improvement, but not enough to hang onto calls. Gave in, and we are waiting on delivery of a good booster to the tune of $1,400, after discovering others on the road suddenly experiencing same problem.

Not sure what's changed, but we had a solid signal here for the previous year and a half, during every season. We've improved the house prior to moving, with double exterior walls, replaced metal roof with new, however we get the same dB field testing in the house as in the yard and at the shore, thus the booster purchase. We do have a windfarm up the hill, possible issue, but that predates our purchase of the house. We are within 10km of four towers, two at lake level (Superior) like our house, two at a higher elevation than the windmills. We even pick up a Verizon tower across Whitefish Bay sometimes, somewhere around Paradise, Michigan, quite a distance away.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm guessing interference from Verizon. There are increasing demands on frequencies and they are controlled by the countries independently (FCC and CRTC) The military spectrum is deconflicted across borders but I'm not sure about the telecoms

This was a major issue in Europe where countries are so small and carriers were stepping on each other. Europe has now regulated transmission levels in border areas and is also phasing out roaming so that you can use signals from neighbouring countries

I wouldn't be surprised if the Canada-US border is behind in coordination because it is massive and mostly unpopulated. I know there have been major issues with 911 calls being routed to the wrong country so I doubt they have sorted the frequency deconflictions


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I am a huge fan of unlocked phones. I want to disconnect the relationship between the cell provider and the provision/purchase of a phone. I want to buy the phone I want from any supplier-anywhere. Not a fan of contracts either which is why we do not have have a term contract.

We travel outside Canada frequently. If we start taking our phone (have not in the the past) we will simply by a local sim card, number, and time. So much cheaper than dealing with CAD cel providers.

We are on Koodo (Telus). Great service and coverage. We will get our phones unlocked in Dec. I applaud the CRTC for this. Adds some competition to the equation. My cell phone battery (four years old) was crapping out. Koodo says no more batteries available.. need to buy a new phone, sign up for a contract. Went on Amazon.ca and purchased an OEM battery for $10. It has been working like a charm for the past several months.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ian said:


> My cell phone battery (four years old) was crapping out. Koodo says no more batteries available.. need to buy a new phone, sign up for a contract. Went on Amazon.ca and purchased an OEM battery for $10. It has been working like a charm for the past several months.


I just did the same. I was in the US so I paid $10USD for an iPhone battery and $5USD for the tool kit. My phone was almost dead before noon, setting said the battery needed "service" and generally working very sluggish that it felt like time to buy a new phone.. new battery and now it's working like new again


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree there should be no relationship between a phone purchase and service provider. A major step in the right direction. I do notice that Rogers (who I have my current month to month service with) has the option to bring your own phones. We just need to start shopping around for phones, and likely go with Rogers with their family share plan. Haven't checked with other providers yet.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

m3s, I hadn't thought of the Verizon angle, will have to investigate that. Their signal would be coming directly across the lake, not through the challenging terrain of the Canadian Shield like the Canadian towers.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

They also have this kind of phone unlocking requirement in Australia. After buying a phone in an Aussie store, I was shocked that it just took a call to the telco to unlock the phone. Since then I've been able to use that phone throughout Europe and Asia.

This is a really good move. Telcos are just putting out some PR to make it sound bad for consumers, but being able to unlock phones is the norm in the world. It's overall much better for the user; total freedom. You buy the equipment and then use it like you'd want to.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

james4beach said:


> This is a really good move. Telcos are just putting out some PR to make it sound bad for consumers, but being able to unlock phones is the norm in the world. It's overall much better for the user; total freedom. You buy the equipment and then use it like you'd want to.


I agree, and each phone I've personally owned has been unlocked, but I suspect a lot of people who have the typical phone plan may not understand how the actual price of the phone is included in their plan each month. Many of these people may be shocked what a decent phone costs. My latest phone is a Samsung Galaxy S7 and it was originally around $900 when released, but with the announcement of the S8 the price dropped to around $650. If you had a plan, this phone was almost free (or so it seemed). The money has to come from somewhere. With the advent of all phones being unlocked, how will this affect the cost of plans, and will people be willing to pay for the actual price of an unlocked phone?

ltr


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Most people likely couldn't afford the latest phone unless linked to a contract. Nothing wrong with that...similar to 7 year car loans...they serve a purpose. Unlocking phones has been pretty routine and making it free will just add to expenses for the phone consumer elsewhere...the CRTC has been and continue to be morons.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Eder said:


> Most people likely couldn't afford the latest phone unless linked to a contract. Nothing wrong with that...similar to 7 year car loans...they serve a purpose. Unlocking phones has been pretty routine and making it free will just add to expenses for the phone consumer elsewhere...the CRTC has been and continue to be morons.


Yeah, I see people getting their phones for next to nothing and then with this announcement they raise their arms and demand justice. We have a right to unlock our phones and select whomever we wish as a provider. 

OK, then lets look at your nice new, almost free to start using Galaxy S8. The market price is about $1100. How would you like to pay for that - cash or credit?

There's a reason the phone is locked.

ltr


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> ... I wouldn't be surprised if the Canada-US border is behind in coordination because it is massive and mostly unpopulated. I know there have been major issues with 911 calls being routed to the wrong country so I doubt they have sorted the frequency deconflictions


There's also been 911 calls dispatching fire trucks from a different province.
http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/mobile/s...-sends-n-b-fire-truck-to-p-e-i-fire-1.2838834


Cheers


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

No doubt the telcos hate it. Nothing they like better than to lock someone in for three years. Let's not kid ourselves...the phones are not free. They are simply a means of keeping the actual cell useage rates high because there are not many people who can afford to 'break' the contract. This is just one reason why our cell phone plans are among the highest in the world. The telcos do not want to upset this apple cart.

No different than renting hot water tanks.

And people are dopes. My SIS and BIL who live payday to payday think it is wonderful that they both can have the latest iphones with all the bells, data, internet, for free. They each just pay a monthly charge that is about three times what we pay for service only and they appear very happy to pay it. Go figure.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> like_to_retire said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, and each phone I've personally owned has been unlocked, but I suspect a lot of people who have the typical phone plan may not understand how the actual price of the phone is included in their plan each month.
> ...


Question is ... is there enough info available to separate *cost* from profit padding?
If the cost is really $400 in Canada ... why is the same unlocked phone with the same specs available for less than $100 in Latin America?


Cheers


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Why does the same US gallon of diesel cost 30% less in the USA than Canada??? Maybe the CRTC can fix this for us at the same time?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Eder said:


> Why does the same US gallon of diesel cost 30% less in the USA than Canada??? Maybe the CRTC can fix this for us at the same time?


Difference in forex rate for one... higher taxes in Canada for another.


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## mark0f0 (Oct 1, 2016)

Locking perhaps made sense a long time ago when the cell phone industry was in its infancy, and these companies really didn't have a good way of evaluating their customer base for credit-worthiness. The lock gave them some sense of surety against scammers "buying" phones on payments, and then shipping them offshore. Never to be heard from again.

But these days, its just stupid. Nearly everyone who signs up for cell service these days already has a relationship with one of the various carriers. They have a credit record which can be evaluated. There's no reason why these transactions simply can't be purely financial, just like the financial contract one enters into when you purchase a car or truck from a car dealership. 

Having said that, I'm not sure why the CRTC would even need to 'regulate' something like this. Consumers should have done it for themselves, by refusing to enter into contracts with organizations that performed this practice. Would you, as a consumer, ever consider buying a car that could *only* be fuelled at Esso? Could never be fuelled at Petro Canada, or Shell? A dealer or car brand that pulled that stunt would be laughed at, and shunned, yet here we are, people, even with widespread knowledge of locking practices, were still dealing with cell carriers that locked "purchased" phones in addition to enforcing their debt obligations using the traditional methods.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

mark0f0 said:


> Having said that, I'm not sure why the CRTC would even need to 'regulate' something like this. Consumers should have done it for themselves, by refusing to enter into contracts with organizations that performed this practice. Would you, as a consumer, ever consider buying a car that could *only* be fuelled at Esso? Could never be fuelled at Petro Canada, or Shell? A dealer or car brand that pulled that stunt would be laughed at, and shunned, yet here we are, people, even with widespread knowledge of locking practices, were still dealing with cell carriers that locked "purchased" phones in addition to enforcing their debt obligations using the traditional methods.


CRTC needed to act because many retail consumers were/are 3 cans short of a 6 pack when it comes to belief in 'free or near free' stuff. Some also know better but liked paying for their phone on 'loan' terms. The cell phone manufacturers played this up as well by offering 'trade ins' for the next iternation. 

Not only limited to cell phones either. After all, investors in most mutual funds do not pay any fees, remember?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> Most people likely couldn't afford the latest phone unless linked to a contract. Nothing wrong with that...similar to 7 year car loans...they serve a purpose. Unlocking phones has been pretty routine and making it free will just add to expenses for the phone consumer elsewhere...the CRTC has been and continue to be morons.


You could always separately finance a phone. Or buy a perfectly acceptable mid-range phone for 1/3 the price.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

andrewf said:


> You could always separately finance a phone. Or buy a perfectly acceptable mid-range phone for 1/3 the price.


Of course we could, but the lure of the latest/greatest iPhone is strong with consumers and telcos are smart enough to enable users to get what they want as easily as possible. My point is the CRTC is attacking Canadian businesses but the government allows other similar practices go unscrutinized. As Mark0f0 mentioned, let the consumer drive the direction of business.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Eder said:
> 
> 
> > Why does the same US gallon of diesel cost 30% less in the USA than Canada??? Maybe the CRTC can fix this for us at the same time?
> ...


There's also that a US gallon is smaller than an imperial gallon by about 16%.

Regardless - 30% cheaper is a drop in the bucket compared to 1/4 the cost. If the price for the phone is strictly the price for the phone without other factors thrown in - IMO there shouldn't be that huge a swing for "just paying for the phone".


Cheers


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't think anyone gives me much credit...of course I know a US gallon is smaller and forex comes into play. I guess my analogy is confusing for many.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Plus, there's a great market in second hand phones.


We are not on any calling plan but use paygo in Canada, Europe and Mexico, so we buy our phones used. We paid $100 for a 4S and $300 for a 5. Getting ready for another upgrade cycle. Although I like my 4S. I use the iPad if I want a big screen. DW wants a 7+ for the better camera. We had to buy the extra cloud storage because we have 4 devices. Just puts us over their free limit.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I stopped in at a Koodo mobile booth this week to ask about unlocking my phone (I can always get the code on the web). The clerk told me that there would still be a charge to unlock phones purchased prior to Dec. 1. Not certain if this is so or not.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Starting December 1, they can no longer charge fees to do this.

I've phoned both Bell and Virgin Mobile to have phones unlocked today... Christmas starts early this year!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

As have I to have an old iPhone* unlocked. I called Koodo to do that. There is no unlocking fee for ANY phone now, no matter when purchased.

* It is my understanding talking to the Koodo lady that all? older? iPhones do not need unlock codes. Koodo phones Apple with the IMEI number and Apple releases the IMEI to use any Sim card. Then once the phone is turned off and the Sim card is pulled, it is unlocked from thereon.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yup even old phones! I just unlocked a Samsung flip phone. When I'm in the US again, I'm going to try popping a prepaid SIM card into this to see if it works.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Yup even old phones! I just unlocked a Samsung flip phone. When I'm in the US again, I'm going to try popping a prepaid SIM card into this to see if it works.


Hmmmm. Did not yet unlock my old Samsung flip phone. Never even thought about it... and it now no longer is under a carrier contract of any kind. I should see if Samsung itself will unlock it vs Rogers under which it was originally contracted.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> Hmmmm. Did not yet unlock my old Samsung flip phone. Never even thought about it... and it now no longer is under a carrier contract of any kind. I should see if Samsung itself will unlock it vs Rogers under which it was originally contracted.


Makes me wonder if Rogers is still obligated to unlock a phone that is locked to them, even if you don't currently have a service with them.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I just ordered a new phone from Koodo a few days ago. LG G6. Is it going to arrive in the mail unlocked? The fine print of my contract update still says I have to pay $50 to unlock and can only do this after 90 days if I still have a tab balance (I do).


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Makes me wonder if Rogers is still obligated to unlock a phone that is locked to them, even if you don't currently have a service with them.


There have been news stories this month that no, they are not obligated if you don't currently have service with them. In that case they are still allowed to charge the unlocking fee.


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