# HELOC rates



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I have been trying to get Scotia to put our STEP at prime + 0.5% for the last month, but I'm not having any luck. I asked two reps and the branch manager, they said no. I currently pay prime + 1%. ( I think everyone accross the board was moved up last fall to this prime + 1% )

So yesterday I read on Canadianmortgage trends that Manulife, BMO, RBC and National Bank are now at prime + 0.5% on their helocs. 

Just wondering what interest rate everyone is paying and how I approach the bank about lowring our rate. 

Thank you.


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Mine is still Prime with National Bank. This is conditional upon keeping a Platinum Mastercard ($120 annual fee) and is a part of the Engineering Students and Graduates program.


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

Prime + 1 with TD


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

canabiz said:


> Mine is still Prime with National Bank. This is conditional upon keeping a Platinum Mastercard ($120 annual fee) and is a part of the Engineering Students and Graduates program.


That's a fantastic rate. Apparently National Bank is now giving out prime + .05 through a broker.


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

What are the odds of ever seeing those rates going back down to prime?


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

mine is prime +1 with CIBC


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

RBC is offering Prime + 0.5 on Homeline accounts.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

P @ rbc. but they are milking me with my regular mortgage. they offered my P-0.4 while the market rate was P-0.6

so i am paying a higher rate for the money i borrowed so i can get a better rate on the money that i "may" borrow "sometime in future". not smart, i agree. but the difference was not worth switching. they know it and they are using it (me)


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

BMO Homeowner ReadiLine is at Prime + .5% called their toll-free number and no hassle. Called my rep at TD today and I'm trying to get her to bring me down to prime. Should find out by Thursday.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

seanatis said:


> BMO Homeowner ReadiLine is at Prime + .5% called their toll-free number and no hassle. Called my rep at TD today and I'm trying to get her to bring me down to prime. Should find out by Thursday.


Nice to hear that you can ask a question and they give you an answer with no hassle. With Scotia, they don't even return their phone calls or emails.


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

seanatis said:


> BMO Homeowner ReadiLine is at Prime + .5% called their toll-free number and no hassle. Called my rep at TD today and I'm trying to get her to bring me down to prime. Should find out by Thursday.


Finally managed to get my rate down to prime + .5%. They didn't wanna budge on bringing it down all the way to prime for right now.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Nice to hear that you can ask a question and they give you an answer with no hassle. With Scotia, they don't even return their phone calls or emails.


Thats very interesting... we won't be buying Scotia stock anytime soon if this is their level of 'service'!


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

In a recent thread on RFD, everyone was asked to list, from best to worst, what they thought was best of the top 5 banks. The thread grew quite large and not surprisingly almost everyone that replied said TD was the best for service, with Scotia being the worst. RBC, CIBC and BMO did not fair well either. TD did have a lot of positive comments. The other banks were just negative comments. 

I can't wait for my mortgage to be paid off. I might just tell them off when it's done. Maybe I will feel better.


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Jungle said:


> In a recent thread on RFD, everyone was asked to list, from best to worst, what they thought was best of the top 5 banks. The thread grew quite large and not surprisingly almost everyone that replied said TD was the best for service, with Scotia being the worst. RBC, CIBC and BMO did not fair well either. TD did have a lot of positive comments. The other banks were just negative comments.
> 
> I can't wait for my mortgage to be paid off. I might just tell them off when it's done. Maybe I will feel better.


A bit off-topic but I do agree TD is probably the best of the big 6 (including National Bank) in terms of customer service. Just the fact that they are open *8 till late* is a huge convenience for lots of us. Compare that to my local National Bank branch which is open 10 - 5 and close on Saturdays.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

canabiz said:


> A bit off-topic but I do agree TD is probably the best of the big 6 (including National Bank) in terms of customer service. Just the fact that they are open *8 till late* is a huge convenience for lots of us. Compare that to my local National Bank branch which is open 10 - 5 and close on Saturdays.


A lot of banks are doing the late hrs. these days - I guess because of competition and revenue pressures.
Our local Scotiabank is now open until 7 and on Sat.
CIBC trumped that with Sunday hrs.
BMO have also extended their hrs.

Going back to original topic, everyone's experience is different.
I'm not disputing the results of the survey, but my experience with TD Bank branch was bad.
I had a much better experience a few years later with their telephone customer service when opening an eSeries account, but the branch experience still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I was trying to buy a house when I was new in the country and those guys pretty much shooed me away.
They weren't interested in what I could do and try to offer some options.
I had a slightly better experience with Scotiabank and CIBC at that time.
And now those very same snooty, stiff-upper-lip banks are aggressively advertising products and offerings for newcomers with no credit history.
How times change!
Competition and capitalism is a great leveler.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I've experienced a difference over the years in their level of customer service at TD - for the better. I was very sad when TD took over Canada Trust, I noticed slowly the hours were dragged back (CT used to be open until 8 pm plus Saturdays). However, lately the customer service at TD has been excellent and I am very happy with them. And their Select Service account has rocked my world lately 

edit: Ooops sorry, way off topic. I'm curious if anyone is currently being offered prime on their HELOC?


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## leafsfan (Jul 8, 2009)

*Heloc rate*

Can anyone tell me if there is any disadvantage to having a HELOC vs. an unsecured LOC. I realize you get a better rate when it is secured. but is there any drawbacks?
I currently have an unsecured LOC with CIBC at P + 2% and am considering getting a HELOC at a lower rate.

any comments?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

There's the hassle of applying. Also, if you default on the loan, it's secured against your home. Other than that, not really. Unsecured lines are mainly for people without equity to drawn upon.


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Addy said:


> edit: Ooops sorry, way off topic. I'm curious if anyone is currently being offered prime on their HELOC?


I have prime minus 0.5% on my HELOC. However, it was negotiated before the worst of the financial crisis. It did require a home inspection.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

What are the chances of getting the bank to foot the cost of appraisal, legal fees, etc. these days?
I had tried setting up an HELOC a few years ago (pre-2008) and at that time the bank was not willing to eat any of the costs.
Is it the same these days?


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

They added the cost of the appraisal onto my mortgage.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> What are the chances of getting the bank to foot the cost of appraisal, legal fees, etc. these days?
> I had tried setting up an HELOC a few years ago (pre-2008) and at that time the bank was not willing to eat any of the costs.
> Is it the same these days?


I have read a large thread on RFD and it appears that before 2009, a lot of banks did foot the bill for setting up a HELOC. Some banks had promotions covering these costs as the incentive. However now a days, it seems banks will not touch these costs and the customer has to pay. Some banks require you to use their in house lawyers, such as TD, at a higher cost. SOme banks do not, you can register charge on the title with what ever lawyer you want. However some people have been able to set these up with lower rates after complaining a lot. Kind of like what I am doing now. 

I am still fighting with Scotia to lower my STEP rate. Waiting to hear back from the Office of the President. We'll see what happens. Regardless in the next two years they are being dropped like a hot potato; their service is horrible. National Bank here I come!


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

*WE GOT PRIME + 0.5% FROM SCOTIA TODAY!!!!!* Happy dance !!!

I did ask the bank many times and then sent in a 4 page letter complaining to the office of the president. We used some concerning problems we recently had and complained about them. (they screwed up huge on a few things) Then we used that as leverage and asked for the rate to be lowered for compensation. 


YAY!!!


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> What are the chances of getting the bank to foot the cost of appraisal, legal fees, etc. these days?
> I had tried setting up an HELOC a few years ago (pre-2008) and at that time the bank was not willing to eat any of the costs.
> Is it the same these days?


The only thing my bank said was that I had to use my HELOC for 3 months for them to absorb the costs.


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

Jungle said:


> *WE GOT PRIME + 0.5% FROM SCOTIA TODAY!!!!!* Happy dance !!!
> 
> I did ask the bank many times and then sent in a 4 page letter complaining to the office of the president. We used some concerning problems we recently had and complained about them. (they screwed up huge on a few things) Then we used that as leverage and asked for the rate to be lowered for compensation.
> 
> ...


Congrats! I guess you deserve it after all that work lol


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm curious what rates people have been offered lately for HELOC's? We are considering using one when we purchase our next home and I'd like to get an idea of what the going rate is currently.

Also, is there a good thread or resource online, sort of a HELOC for dummies? I know the basics but I'd like to know more details, and what to be aware of when signing off and using a HELOC. If you know of anything could you please pm me or maybe it's appropriate to post here?


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Going rate is prime + 0.5. Don't let the banks sell you otherwise. Even TD is giving this, as reported by CDN mortgage trends. 

Banks have to place collateral against your house, this involves lawyer fees and register a charge against the title. The banks wont really foot that bill now. 

Most HELOCs are not directly portable to a new house. There a fees to remove the charge on the title when moving. 

Fine print says HELOC can be called anytime for no reason. However, I don't think this happens too often. (unless you default or foreclose)


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

i was offered p-0.4 by td. but i have P at rbc. so cold deal for me...
i can provide my td contact if anyone is interested.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

rookie said:


> i was offered p-0.4 by td. but i have P at rbc. so cold deal for me...
> i can provide my td contact if anyone is interested.


P *minus* 0.4 at TD on your HELOC? That's crazy! How did you swing that deal?


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

It will be interesting to crunch numbers and find out if a HELOC is better than we can do with buying down our rate... we get $25K no interest for five years (via hubbys work) plus we can use our extra cash left after our move from our funding envelopes (which normally would be taxed if we cash out) to buy down our mortage rate. I believe the CRA prescribed rate is 2% right now, maybe 1% I have to double check.

Does anyone have a clue how I could compare these two scenarios to come up with a reasonable idea which is better? I realize we would need to know how much $ is left in our funding envelope, so it would be a nearly moot point until we know that, although it would be nice to at least know how to do the comparison.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Addy, an interesting option may be to take a $25k mortgage for the interest buy down (must be fixed mortgage) and then another mortgage for the rest as you chose such as HELOC (I did variable) I didn't take a HELOC myself because I need to stay flexible. Watch out for penalties on breaking mortgage terms, a lot of them charge more than what work will cover now (3 months interest). Coworker got hit with $10k out of pocket.


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## Riff Raff (Sep 5, 2010)

Jungle said:


> *WE GOT PRIME + 0.5% FROM SCOTIA TODAY!!!!!* Happy dance !!!
> 
> I did ask the bank many times and then sent in a 4 page letter complaining to the office of the president. We used some concerning problems we recently had and complained about them. (they screwed up huge on a few things) Then we used that as leverage and asked for the rate to be lowered for compensation.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

I have prime +0.5% @ BMO - but the agent I dealt with did mess quite a bit up. When I finally went into the branch they:

- had me on a 35 amort when I said 25
- hadn't adjusted my mortgage rate to the discount documented in emails

I wonder if I can get something out of BMO or not ...


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## R.O.V. (May 16, 2010)

HELOC is new to me (along with many other things I'm trying to understand from this forum)...I have read this and other threads from CMF on HELOC and have the following questions. 

Should I apply for an HELOC to replace my current LOC...I bought my property (primary residence) 6 yrs ago for $301K and owe $210K, it has appreciated since then. I currently have a LOC @ 6.25% with a balance of $11K. I thought the rate on my LOC was lower, and was surprised to find it was that high.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

We have ours with RBC at Prime even. Our variable mortgage is at prime minus .15


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## seanatis (Feb 7, 2010)

rookie said:


> i was offered p-0.4 by td. but i have P at rbc. so cold deal for me...
> i can provide my td contact if anyone is interested.


I'd like to know who that is. I got mine down to P + .5 and it was a bit of work. It had to go to head office, products division and they weren't willing to go down to prime.


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## wonderdollar (Oct 13, 2010)

Ihatetaxes said:


> We have ours with RBC at Prime even. Our variable mortgage is at prime minus .15


Your line of credit rate is good but the variable rate is not competitive. You can try to talk them and get prime -0.8 or higher and it may turn out to be better for you even if you have to pay penalties.

Pramod Chopra


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