# Is 1% crypto position even worthwhile?



## digitalatlas (Jun 6, 2015)

I've read that allocating 1% in cryptocurrency is reasonable. Is this even worthwhile, or just writers trying to get clicks?

I guess no one wants to lose their shirt on cryptocurrency. But let's say you allocate 1%, I guess if you participated in the recent run-up, that might have been worthwhile. But short of a several-fold increase, this probably has very little effect on one's portfolio.

And since it's so speculative, I'd say it's pretty much gambling. But in that case, the only way to really take advantage would be to go big or go home. Anyone agree?

I've been playing with the idea of buying something (at the behest of a friend...yeah, I know) but find myself hesitant to put, I don't know, even up to 1% of my portfolio. For the record, I also don't gamble at a casino. But..FOMO?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

If you don't know anything about it then I agree it's gambling

There's several CAD stocks that might be a way to get your 1%. BITF and HUT are supposed to get listed on NYSE. VYGR and GLXY are also good but hard to value.

There are also BTC ETFs and soon ETH ETFs. The VYGR app is really good and pays 5-10% yield but not in Canada yet


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## Fain (Oct 11, 2009)

what cryptocurrency are you thinking of buying? 1% is pretty tiny to allocate. maybe on some alt coin but higher allocation if it's bitcoin.









Longtime Bitcoin Skeptic Ray Dalio Recommends Allocating 20% of Portfolio to BTC: Report - The Daily Hodl


Billionaire hedge fund veteran and noted Bitcoin skeptic Ray Dalio is reportedly changing his stance on BTC as he now believes the leading cryptocurrency should be part of a diversified portfolio.




dailyhodl.com


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

digitalatlas said:


> I've read that allocating 1% in cryptocurrency is reasonable. Is this even worthwhile, or just writers trying to get clicks?


1% is a harmless allocation but I would not buy some arbitrary koin. There is absolutely no way to know if Bitcoin will "still be a thing" in 5 or 10 years.

If you really want to have some portfolio exposure, I think you're better off using something like Horizons HBLK which are blockchain company stocks. The benefit here is that HBLK should be agnostic to whichever koin eventually catches on.

Myself: no, I don't have any of these in my portfolio, because I already have plenty of tech sector exposure in the S&P 500 plus a position in XIT. If crypto koins and all the infrastructure really keeps growing like crazy, I'm going to get a piece of that through tech stocks anyway.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

I never risk more then 2% on any trade.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

1% fits well within the 5-10% highly speculative portion of a portfolio.

I hold 0% invested in cryptocurrencies, because I don't understand/agree with the valuation case that supports their current price.


I do have some Litecoin, to try purchasing stuff online (it's pretty cool)
Ethereum because I want to try a smart contract.
Dogecoin, because it was fun tipping people on reddit.

In short, I think it's a really interesting technology, but a dumb investment. (today)


To echo James, if you really think that cryptocurrencies are going to be important in tech, why not just buy a tech company and let them manage and navigate for you.
Paypal or MSFT are IMO more able to navigate this market than I am.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I don’t believe in cryptocurrency and never will. I think it’s crazy to invest in something so speculative. For those reasons, I wouldn’t invest one cent in crypto....not even if I found the penny on the floor!


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Cryptocurrency is not investible, but is very attractive to a lot of young investors especially. There is definitely a large class of them emerging with crazy risk appetite. The last time I saw such high risk tolerance and confidence was clearly in the late 90's. The comparison is direct and very relevant - I lived it and can see the same thing happening, and maybe even worse. Some people are being wiped out, clean to zero, then go and find another $1-10k to leverage up literally the next day and play again. In the 90's, usually people learned their lesson after zero-izing a 5 figure account and gave up.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Oh, just a note, Dogecoin, which is literally a joke coin went up 100x recently.
So that 1% portion of your portfolio could have doubled it.

Though I'd have reduced the position along the way. Just as I trimmed my Google position.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I think it also depends on how much your 1% is in dollars. For example, if your total investable assets are $100k, allocating 1% to crypto, or any asset class, is just a distraction. Get exposure through a tech fund or etf that you can allocate a larger percentage to.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

One of the biggest mistakes retail investors make is putting to much money on the table. As the saying goes the retail investor is not allowed to make money in the markets. Risking to much on a trade causes too much stress to have discipline.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Oh, just a note, Dogecoin, which is literally a joke coin went up 100x recently.
> So that 1% portion of your portfolio could have doubled it.


There is an online effort called 'Doge Day' with the aim of manipulating the price up to $1 today (Tuesday).

Dogecoin is currently worth $65 billion CAD, which makes it more valuable than:

CIBC
CP Rail
BCE
Manulife
Suncor
The crypto koins are just gambling toys. And yes that applies to Bitcoin too. Some of them might have interesting promise, yes, but at the moment they are all toys for gambling and speculation.

And money laundering, plus drugs and weapons sales. There isn't much other use for them.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I can't understand crypto.
It's literally nothing.
No sales. No product. Too volatile to be a real currency... I mean, I just don't get it.

There is literally nothing about it that makes sense. Sure, the tech is cool. Blockchain makes sense.

But even still... Just because blockchain technology and smartcontracts make sense... Why does someone need to "own" the coin? The coin itself is pure trash lol


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> I can't understand crypto.
> It's literally nothing.
> No sales. No product. Too volatile to be a real currency... I mean, I just don't get it.
> 
> ...


2 different arguments. As a currency, look at modern currencies, the only reason that the US dollar has value, is people think it has value. 
It isn't a real value like gold. 
Bitcoins value is a shared delusion, like peoples faith in national currencies. Arguably it's more sound because it isnt' as easily manipulated (nobody is able to quiety mint a few million BTC, governments print buckets of cash all the time).

The second is if you think there is value in a blockchain or smart contracts and that has value, you should accept that paying for that function (ie paying to manage the contract) is reasonable.
Since you pay for an ethereum network contract in ETH, there is some value there. You need to own the coin to pay for the contract.

My position is simple.
BTC and "currency" coins are a shared delusion, and I can't value them.
ETH and "platform" coins can be used to do something, therefore they have some non zero value, I can't value this yet.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Cryptocurrency will never work in society. As much as its designed to circumvent government regulations, it will never get adopted if it cannot be controlled. If it gets controlled, then it becomes obsolete.

Its a deceiving idea that someone invented and since society is full of followers, its gained traction - just like the fidget spinner!

Now with over 2000 cryptocurrencies in "circulation", what's everyone expecting?? This has to go down as the biggest hoax in modern history. If not, we have completely lost it as a society.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Cryptocurrency will never work in society. As much as its designed to circumvent government regulations, it will never get adopted if it cannot be controlled. If it gets controlled, then it becomes obsolete.
> 
> Its a deceiving idea that someone invented and since society is full of followers, its gained traction - just like the fidget spinner!
> 
> Now with over 2000 cryptocurrencies in "circulation", what's everyone expecting?? This has to go down as the biggest hoax in modern history. If not, we have completely lost it as a society.


I think you're wrong.
The internet was designed to be decentralized, it got controlled, and it's not obsolete.

What everyone is expecting is irrelevant. Lots of people can be wrong.

What I'm expecting is that the delusion of value will continue for some time on a few coins (BTC, LTC).
the delusion of value may or may not last on Doge.

I am also expecting that Cardano/Ethereum or other platform coins that can do something will continue to exist for some time.

I think many things will not be successful and will fail.
These things include blockchains, coins, national currencies, software programs, companies, products, technologies, stocks, bonds etc.

Remember we have thousands of stocks/companies, many will collapse, many already have. But some last. I think the best guess on whihc ones last are the ones that do something useful and solve real problems.
Interestingly I think that the reason some stocks/companies will continue is the same reason I think some blockchains/coins will continue.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I don't see the parallel of crypto to company stocks. Crypto is trying to be a commodity. If many will fail, then why would others succeed? Who will choose? And how will it be relevant if not regulated. Government is there to ensure order.....without it, it'll be complete chaos. Whether we agree with government or not, it does serve a purpose.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

The thing that makes me laugh is that usually... you need USD to buy BTC and tthen BTC to buy Altcoins and then you need to transfer the Alts back to BTC and then back to USD so you can actually buy something in the real world.

USD is still king.

Also, the fact that different exchanges have different prices blows my mind.

Imagine if Canadian companies traded at vastly different prices or had mini "crashes" on certain exchanges? 

In my opinion, lots of youth grew up with computers. They believe tech is the future and their future has been robbed of them. They are in this world with no money, poor job prospects and inflated asset prices. So why not "yolo" the small amount of money you've got? If you lose it, you're still poor. No change. But if that damn Dogecoin goes up, they could be a millionaire...


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mortgage u/w said:


> I don't see the parallel of crypto to company stocks.


I can see that.



> Crypto is trying to be a commodity.


I don't agree with this premise.
How is ethereum, a globally distributed computer, trying to be a commodity?



> If many will fail, then why would others succeed?


Because they're doing different things, in different ways, with different management, different ideas, and different market reactions.
Just like companies. Lots of soda companies have tried to compete with Coke and Pepsi, why did Coke succeed while so many others failed?



> Who will choose?


The market.



> And how will it be relevant if not regulated.


I don't understand the question. 
My pickup soccer game isn't regulated, but it's still relevant.



> Government is there to ensure order.....without it, it'll be complete chaos.


yes/no.
The governance of each blockchains is different. Some are authoritarian, some are democratic, some are committees.
In most cases the decisions and rules of the blockchain are public.

I'm not sure what role of the various world governments have.
I'd actually suggest that if each national and state government tried to regulate crypto, we'd end up with complete chaos, as they would likely end up with contradictory rules.



> Whether we agree with government or not, it does serve a purpose.


Yes, but that's irrelevant to the point.

1. What I see is a technology that can do something. 
2. Some people have made things out of this technology.
2a. Some of these things *might* be useful.
3. I think useful things *might* have value.

That's it, that is my entire blockchain argument.
I think that we can all agree on point 1, 2 and 3 is obvious.
You seem stuck on part 2a, that's fine.

Personally I'm past all that and I've moved on to figuring out how useful these things are, and I don't know yet.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> The thing that makes me laugh is that usually... you need USD to buy BTC and tthen BTC to buy Altcoins and then you need to transfer the Alts back to BTC and then back to USD so you can actually buy something in the real world.
> 
> USD is still king.


Decentralized exchange volume has already surpassed major exchanges. No USD required. The creator is the Mark Zuckerberg of this decade that people haven't heard of yet. Social media is nothing by comparison

USD is king until it isn't. The US is in a debt spiral and the only way to keep the party going is to print more USD. Few have realized this while many give it little thought. There is no reason something better can't replace it

There's a perfect podcast for CMFers with a "bond expert" who worked at RBC on the investor podcast. According to him people are talking about BTC today exactly the way people talked about bonds decades ago


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> The thing that makes me laugh is that usually... you need USD to buy BTC and tthen BTC to buy Altcoins and then you need to transfer the Alts back to BTC and then back to USD so you can actually buy something in the real world.


Except that's not true. 

I've earned coins for doing stuff online, then purchased items with those coins.

No dollars (US or Canadian) ever traded hands.

It's perfectly possible to sell an online service in crypto, and pay your hosting bills in crypto.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> I don't agree with this premise.
> How is ethereum, a globally distributed computer, trying to be a commodity?


The vast majority of the crypto tokens are ERC-20 tokens that require ETH "gas" for each transaction. Some refer to ETH as digital oil

If BTC is like a digital store of value than ETH is like digital commodity imo. Same for the few other smart contract networks


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> The vast majority of the crypto tokens are ERC-20 tokens that require ETH "gas" for each transaction. Some refer to ETH as digital oil
> 
> If BTC is like a digital store of value than ETH is like digital commodity imo. Same for the few other smart contract networks


Eth is the "digital oil" that makes the eth network run.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Eth is the "digital oil" that makes the eth network run.


Ethereum network (eth is the token) The thousands of ERC-20 tokens on the ethereum network pay for transactions in eth

Cardano network (ada) will let tokens pay for transactions in their own tokens and nodes will earn those tokens or convert them

Not sure if the oil analogy works when there are a few separate smart contract networks but they are more like a commodity than a currency


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Ethereum network (eth is the token) The thousands of ERC-20 tokens on the ethereum network pay for transactions in eth
> 
> Cardano network (ada) will let tokens pay for transactions in their own tokens and nodes will earn those tokens or convert them
> 
> Not sure if the oil analogy works when there are a few separate smart contract networks but they are more like a commodity than a currency


The distinction between a commodity and currency is really just the convenience.
Just like the idea that Roman soldiers were paid in salt. It was both a commodity and a currency. Then also remember even modern currencies were just conveneint representations of an underlying commodity, ie US dollars were gold.

In the case of crypto currency such a distinction isn't really needed, since the commodity functions just fine as a currency. They don't have the practical problems of trading bags of salt, like they would have had in the roman times.


Yes I'm aware that the Roman salt-salary may not be completely true, but it's a convenient example.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Some say Cardano is a commodity, currency and store-of-value as its supply is finite unlike Ethereum

Ethereum could become deflationary with incoming changes that removes the fees paid from circulation


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

m3s said:


> USD is king until it isn't. The US is in a debt spiral and the only way to keep the party going is to print more USD. Few have realized this while many give it little thought. There is no reason something better can't replace it


The Fed is public enemy number one. The plandemic is to kill the economy make us debt slaves so the fed can own it all.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Some say Cardano is a commodity, currency and store-of-value as its supply is finite unlike Ethereum
> 
> Ethereum could become deflationary with incoming changes that removes the fees paid from circulation


I think finite supply is shortsighted planned obsolescence.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I agree that 1% is a good speculative hold in your play money part of the portfolio.nit is ann controlled value exchange mechanism. As such, it appeals to renegades and crooks. But many pump and dump stock holders made out just fine on the upslope. Just try to watch for a final turn for the worse
,


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I still think 1% is harmless in the big scheme of things (and I'm doing some gambling with roughly 1%)

The people who are going to run into problems are those who have bought into the crypto bull**** and have the majority of their portfolio in it, or entirely in this stuff. IMO those people have fallen for a *massive scam* (pump & dump controlled by a small number of manipulators) and are playing with fire. They may get out at a profit, but I think it's more likely they will suffer losses of epic proportions.

US stock regulation has become much stronger over the last few decades, and insider trading and pump & dump scams have mostly been eradicated, at least compared to what used to be the norm in the early 1900s. Of course there are still crooked penny stocks here and there but _stocks have become much less attractive to scam artists_ and I think it's important to realize this.

Meanwhile:

Crypto koins have given crooked operators an entirely new, unregulated playground. They can also market directly to the suckers using social media, and they can anonymously play their side of it, even from foreign countries. They are untouchable by the law, especially if they are foreign operators.

My gut instinct tells me it's a GIANT scam. Not the actual technology of course, but the games and pump & dump being played with the price, and the large holders who manipulate perceptions using social media. Nobody in their right mind would invest significant amounts of money into such a non-transparent, unregulated system.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I still think 1% is harmless in the big scheme of things (and I'm doing some gambling with roughly 1%)
> 
> The people who are going to run into problems are those who have bought into the crypto bull**** and have the majority of their portfolio in it, or entirely in this stuff. IMO those people have fallen for a *massive scam* (pump & dump controlled by a small number of manipulators) and are playing with fire. They may get out at a profit, but I think it's more likely they will suffer losses of epic proportions.
> 
> ...


I think most crypto is nearly perfectly transparent and completely regulated. It's the activities around it that aren't.
It's like blaming tulips for the tulipmania.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> I think most crypto is nearly perfectly transparent and completely regulated. It's the activities around it that aren't.
> It's like blaming tulips for the tulipmania.


Blame the tulips or tulip-hockers, whatever. What I'm complaining about is that just about every person who's marketing and pushing crypto assets (including Elon Musk and the hedge funds which now endorse them) come across like con artists.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Blame the tulips or tulip-hockers, whatever. What I'm complaining about is that just about every person who's marketing and pushing crypto assets (including Elon Musk and the hedge funds which now endorse them) come across like con artists.


Yeah, lots of them are.
But I lived through .com, I'll be fine through this too.

Buffet gave advice long ago, invest in what you understand.
If I don't understand how an investment works, I'm not buying.

Also I prefer to invest in useful stuff, I love the concept of an agricultural ETF, bought some COW the day I heard of it.

Crypto is interesting, just not an investment.


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## digitalatlas (Jun 6, 2015)

Thanks for all the thought-provoking discussion. I agree with most of the sentiments shared already. I think blockchain is very useful technology, hampered somewhat by concerns over energy consumption. I only had Bitcoin and Etherium in mind (would have been nice if I had paid attention to Dogecoin), but all of it is super speculative. There's no basis for any of the valuations. If anything, the right time to buy is probably after the recent runup. One day these might retain some value (or get wiped out completely) but not today with its relatively low uptake (though I saw some post title about renting an apartment using Eth).

I think some kind of digital currency is going to become standard, but we're a ways off. Different countries will probably create their own, and by that time it'll be more of a replacement for physical cash than some globally unifying currency.

I guess I'm struggling with whether 1% of anything makes any real difference. I mean, I guess you'd really be gambling on whether something ends up jumping 10 times before it's really substantial, and I don't have a track record of being able to pick those (except after the fact .

I think I'll look into some of those blockchain ETFs. I had looked into HIVE a couple years ago, didn't end up buying at the time (too bad). They focus on mining so, maybe too tied to specific coins and not just the tech.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

digitalatlas said:


> (though I saw some post title about renting an apartment using Eth)


I started that thread. I was fooling around.

I like the blockchain technology and I see value. I invested in blockchain. But not in cryptocurrencies. So I only have indirect exposure to cryptocurrencies due to the correlation of blockchain and crypto.

I'm still trying to figure out how crypto could work. How a wide adoption would unfold.

To be able to use it as a currency for transactions, it would have to be less volatile. To make it less volatile, I've heard of strategies to tie it to another currency/commodity/etc, but I don't like that idea because I think it should not be artificially stabilized. Unless you tie it to something like the global world's GDP? (I'm no economist) Another way to stabilize its volatile would be to have a wider adoption, but then it's the chicken or the egg problem.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> I started that thread. I was fooling around.
> 
> I like the blockchain technology and I see value. I invested in blockchain. But not in cryptocurrencies. So I only have indirect exposure to cryptocurrencies due to the correlation of blockchain and crypto.
> 
> ...


There are stablecoins.

The thing is when there is more solid agreement on value the volitility will drop.
The reason there is so much volatility is there is little agreement on the actual value.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I don't see much harm in anything in your portfolio being 1%, even cash, if you think that works for you.

Going all-in on any crypto would likely be a mistake. Same with all cash. Just me


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> There are stablecoins.


What I read is that stable coins are either commodity-backed, fiat-backed, crypto-backed, so they are simply "stabilized" artificially through correlation with other assets, so they are not stand-alone. You don't get a fully independent global currency with those artificial techniques, in my opinion.

Then there's the seigniorage-style which is the equivalent to printing or destroying money in order to stabilize its value.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Another bitcoin exchange goes down in Turkey and the CEO disappears with $2 billion dollars of customers.

It reminds of Quadringa and all the other bogus exchanges and companies.









Turkish crypto exchange boss goes missing, reportedly taking $2 billion of investors' funds with him


A Turkish cryptocurrency exchange is offline and its CEO has reportedly gone missing, leaving thousands of investors worried that their funds have been stolen.




www.cnbc.com


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Another bitcoin exchange goes down in Turkey and the CEO disappears with $2 billion dollars of customers.
> 
> It reminds of Quadringa and all the other bogus exchanges and companies.
> 
> ...


Oh no, I sent lots of money to some guy on the internet and HE STOLE IT.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

That's why you either custody your own keys or find an institution you can trust

Stick to fiat if you can't grasp the basics


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Saw this over at FWF. 

Not sure what to think. I don't understand crypto and I try not to judge what I don't understand. The dollar was real when it was tied to the gold standard but that was a lifetime ago. With the likes of some of these companies mentioned in this video supporting (or at least acknowledging) crypto it would seem there is the possibility of it being adapted.

New Rule: Crypto Mania! | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) - YouTube 

I won't be buying any crypto for the sole fact I don't understand it. I am not a momentum investor so miss a lot of good opportunities. I also miss a lot of failures. The opportunities that I can recall are pot stocks, amazon, apple, google (all of which I noted would continue to sky rocket). The failures are quickly forgotten because they don't amount to much.

Some are viewing crypto as the next tulip mania and some are saying its a game changer for finance. Guess we'll look back at some point and see how it all went down. There was no internet or forums or subreddits when the Carneghies, Vanderbilts etc got into RR, Oil etc. I wonder if the general public was split on those plays as well.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

londoncalling said:


> Saw this over at FWF.
> 
> Not sure what to think. I


I saw that segment as well, and he's right on the mark. Some aspects of this might change finance, but Bitcoin (specifically) is *not* a game changer for finance. It's just a speculative security for trading / gambling.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

This comedian tv host needs to school Cathie Wood and Elon Musk. Clearly he knows something they don't

Why doesn't Bill Maher do a bit on the USD?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

That video was funny ... so many good lines in there like, "It's like Tinkerbell's light!"


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I saw that segment as well, and he's right on the mark. Some aspects of this might change finance, but Bitcoin (specifically) is *not* a game changer for finance. It's just a speculative security for trading / gambling.


Typical boomer ignorance IMO. Perhaps if his generation hadn't screwed up the financial system, people wouldn't be so interested in alternatives.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If anything forces governments to act, the massive and wasteful energy use would be high on the list.

Criminal activity, threats to the financial system, black market tax evasion........would also be on the list.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The traditional financial system use more energy and has criminal activity and tax evasion. The only legitimate reason would be the threat to the traditional system

Proof of stake consensus algorithms have already solved the energy concerns. Taxes and laws will be easier to enforce on digital traceable transactions. Both will take time (years) to evolve

BTC will hang around like gold. Both are wastes of energy that don't produce much utility


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> If anything forces governments to act, the massive and wasteful energy use would be high on the list.
> 
> Criminal activity, threats to the financial system, black market tax evasion........would also be on the list.


It isnt' wasting energy. So there goes yoru first problem
the others are just distractions, plus thy're already attacking privacy coins.

Governments would love nothing more than a fully public and traceable currency.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A single Ethereum transaction requires the equivalent energy of 2.6 homes. It also creates the carbon footprint of 80,000 Visa transactions.

Bitcoin is 3 times worse for energy consumption. Bitcoin and Ethereum dwarf Visa in the amount of energy used for transactions.

It isn't sustainable and is very harmful to the environment. It creates more problems than it solves.









Ethereum Energy Consumption Index - Digiconomist


The Ethereum Energy Consumption Index provides the latest estimate of the total energy consumption of the Ethereum network.




digiconomist.net


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Bitcoin transactions themselves take very little energy. Most of the energy is consumed by miners competing over block creation. You could remove 99.9% of the mining and still process the same number of transactions. 

The majority of mining has already switched over to hydro power, using excess capacity that would otherwise be doing nothing. There are also wind, solar, and methane capture based projects underway.





__





You are being redirected...






medicinehatnews.com





_... In late February Hut 8 Data-processing announced a partnership with Validus Power to deploy mobile power generators that would burn waste gas from natural gas processing facilities. _
...
_Reducing methane is considered a key climate strategy as the gas is 20 to 25 times more potent as a greenhouse gas compared to the carbon dioxide produced when it is burned efficiently..._


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> A single Ethereum transaction requires the equivalent energy of 2.6 homes. It also creates the carbon footprint of 80,000 Visa transactions.
> 
> Bitcoin is 3 times worse for energy consumption. Bitcoin and Ethereum dwarf Visa in the amount of energy used for transactions.
> 
> ...


That analysis completely ignores all the environmental impact of Visa, from infrastructure, admin, mailing, staffing.

A single ethereum transaction requires almost no additional energy.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

That article completely ignores a lot of things

Ethereum is already well on its way to a proof of stake consensus that uses a tiny fraction of the energy. Also a block is not a single ethereum transaction

The energy consumption is a valid criticism of BTC but it still needs to be compared to the entire legacy system as a whole


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Dogecoin is now worth $100 billion CAD. A joke cryptocurrency is now worth more than Bank of Nova Scotia, Bank of Montreal, CN Rail, etc.


https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DOGE-CAD


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Argonaut said:


> Dogecoin is now worth $100 billion CAD. A joke cryptocurrency is now worth more than Bank of Nova Scotia, Bank of Montreal, CN Rail, etc.
> 
> 
> https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DOGE-CAD


Published on April 22th, as this guy became a Dogecoin millionaire from investing all of his $180,000 into the Dogecoin priced at $0.045. He became a Dogecoin millionaire as it hit $0.25.

Though he decided to keep holding.

Well, 2 weeks later, here we are, Dogecoin is now at $0.60, so he's now a Dogecoin *multi*millionaire...

Why do we need lottery tickets when we have such cryptocurrencies? Lottery tickets are so 2019. We're now in 2021. Nobody writes an article about that guy who bought 500 lottery tickets and won $1M. Boring. We prefer "_calculated risk_" with cryptocurrencies.

"_(4:38) A calculated risk. 10% was luck and 90% was strategy._" (I'm not bashing, maybe he's a genius)





I'm eager for the follow-up interview once Dogecoin goes to $0.004 and his money will be worth 1/10th of his initial "investment".


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## potato69 (Mar 21, 2018)

New Bill Would Halt Crypto Mining In New York for Three Years


A new bill that hit the New York state senate on Monday is aiming to put a multi-year pause on crypto mining operations across the state until authorities can fully suss out what that mining is doing to the climate and local environment.




earther.gizmodo.com


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Argonaut said:


> Dogecoin is now worth $100 billion CAD. A joke cryptocurrency is now worth more than Bank of Nova Scotia, Bank of Montreal, CN Rail, etc.
> 
> 
> https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/DOGE-CAD


Thing is, Argonaut, this is really fun for a lot of people. It has a cute dog picture, and most people will jump on board with whatever circulates on social media. So once the pump job starts on Tik Tok / Instagram etc, people circulate it to each other, they all laugh and decide to buy some. I know it sounds stupid but this really is how a lot of people operate.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

potato69 said:


> New Bill Would Halt Crypto Mining In New York for Three Years
> 
> 
> A new bill that hit the New York state senate on Monday is aiming to put a multi-year pause on crypto mining operations across the state until authorities can fully suss out what that mining is doing to the climate and local environment.
> ...


Not sure what they're hoping to find. On the scale of humanity's impact on the climate, crypto mining is a rounding error. People are just looking for a boogeyman to blame, while they go about their own polluting ways. How many of these whiners take flights to go on vacation, put up Christmas lights, or attend massive sporting events that spew carbon emissions? Probably most of them.

That said, I don't think these industrial-scale mining operations are necessary. I miss the days when a regular person could mine using their PC. Much less energy was consumed back then.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

potato69 said:


> New Bill Would Halt Crypto Mining In New York for Three Years
> 
> 
> A new bill that hit the New York state senate on Monday is aiming to put a multi-year pause on crypto mining operations across the state until authorities can fully suss out what that mining is doing to the climate and local environment.
> ...


They should study NYC and wall street while they're at it?



nathan79 said:


> That said, I don't think these industrial-scale mining operations are necessary. I miss the days when a regular person could mine using their PC. Much less energy was consumed back then.


Look up proof of stake blockchains. Very little computing and electricity required (think Raspberry Pi)

I repurposed a leftover 10-year-old laptop and SSDs that would otherwise be e-waste. Processing $100B USD transactions/day w very little electricity (no change to my bill)


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Look up proof of stake blockchains. Very little computing and electricity required (think Raspberry Pi)
> 
> I repurposed a leftover 10-year-old laptop and SSDs that would otherwise be e-waste. Processing $100B USD transactions/day w very little electricity (no change to my bill)


Yeah, I'm interested in staking. I have some DOT and ADA I've been meaning to put to work. I've never done staking before, but I have similar experience from running a Lightning node for Bitcoin.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ADA has the best staking experience of them all. You can just delegate to a pool. You still maintain full custody and liquidity (can even use DeFi when it will exist)

DOT I don't really know but Voyager pays me 8% anyways. Voyager is supposed to launch in Canada soon. It's having explosive growth and growing pains

Kraken can stake both for you but that doesn't help decentralize the blockchain. Kraken is a registered US bank and will add banking services soon.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> Criminal activity, threats to the financial system, black market tax evasion........would also be on the list.


 Memorize & repeat the lies & propaganda of the control freaks. The real truth is the US dollar is the number one currency used in criminal activity.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

MrBlackhill said:


> I'm eager for the follow-up interview once Dogecoin goes to $0.004 and his money will be worth 1/10th of his initial "investment".


There you go, a follow-up! He's not selling yet... Interesting to watch how greedy this millennial can be. He just won the lottery, yet he's holding on to non-rational beliefs. He just did 15X with his money but he's not cashing out because he wants another +50% to +75%? Wow... At least one of the millionaire millennial is rational and brillant (and that's why he's genuinely successful).

I'm wondering why no one told him : "Why don't you sell at least $1M worth to secure that amount?"






On his channel (https://www.youtube.com/c/THEDOGECOINMILLIONAIRE/videos) you can see how broken is his plan and how greedy he is.

In the first video, he says he wants to hold it for 1 year while saying he wants to become a millionaire. Two months later, he's a millionaire, but then he starts aiming for more : $10M. By the way, he went all-in in Dogecoin, even maxing out his credit lines and credit cards.

In what world are we? He is expecting a move due to Musk who may mention Doge during Saturday Night Live... Wow.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

Graham Stephan is giving him all the right advice, but the guy is so greedy he doesn't listen. They're also doing a mistake I see people doing all the time when faced with decisions like this, and that's thinking in black and white. Sell all or sell nothing. When I'm not sure, I usually go somewhere in-between. He should sell some to secure his future, and keep some for the chance it keeps going up.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

:) lonewolf said:


> Memorize & repeat the lies & propaganda of the control freaks. The real truth is the US dollar is the number one currency used in criminal activity.


That is because the money exchanged for drug crimes at the street level consist of $5, $10 or $20 US bills.

What do the cartels do with all that low denomination money ? Put it on a USB stick in their pocket or load up semi-trailers full of pallets of cash ?

Then what ? Buy a legitimate cash flowing business and pull a skid or two off the trailer to pay for it ?

Large amounts of USD are far more difficult to hide and move around than truckloads of currency.

If it wasn't assigned a value in USD.....crypto would have no value.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> That is because the money exchanged for drug crimes at the street level consist of $5, $10 or $20 US bills.
> 
> What do the cartels do with all that low denomination money ? Put it on a USB stick in their pocket or load up semi-trailers full of pallets of cash ?
> 
> ...


It's not assigned a value in USD. (Except USDT & USDC obviously)

It's simply traded, myself I've never traded crypto for USD, I've bought some with CAD.
The value in USD is a curiousity, just like the value in EUR.


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## KylieJones (Mar 11, 2021)

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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> It's simply traded, myself I've never traded crypto for USD, I've bought some with CAD.
> The value in USD is a curiousity, just like the value in EUR.


Really we should measure value in something like BTC

The way they print USD it's like measuring distance with a meter that gets longer by the day


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Really we should measure value in something like BTC
> 
> The way they print USD it's like measuring distance with a meter that gets longer by the day


We tried that, we used Gold, some still do. Go ahead if you want.

The reality is that fiat currency and US specifically is how the world agreed to play this game (for now)


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