# Advice/tips for a will



## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

My husband and I are in the process of finally getting our wills done. We are 28 and 30-years old and, considering we’ve owned our home for going on 8 years, we are taking it off the back burner and getting it done this Spring!

We are meeting with a lawyer at the end of this month, but I would like some opinions on doing up a will. We are mostly concerned with decisions on beneficiaries if both of us were to pass away at the same time (we are each other executors and beneficiaries in the event one of us passes away first). 

Since we are young, our assets will obviously change over the years. We have decided to divide our estate in percentages, not monetary values. Charities will make up over 60% of our beneficiaries, with family and friends receiving the remaining amounts. We are not having children.

We have 3 nieces and 3 nephews - Three are blood, 1 niece (14), 2 nephews (2 & 1), on my husband’s side and three are “step”, 1 nephew (14), 2 nieces (10 & 8 ) from my sister-in-law’s husband’s previous marriage. All of them are siblings via blended family…

Several problems we are facing:
a) We don’t know our two step-nieces very well as they still live with their mother and we don’t see them as often as we’d like

b) We’re not sure if at this point we’d want to leave anything to our 2 youngest nephews because, as much as we love them, honestly they wouldn’t remember us if we died tomorrow

c) We have the most mature relationship with our niece and step-nephew and are considering only them for an inheritance - We feel that splitting it 6 ways when the relationship bond is stronger with some than the others doesn’t make sense

d) We have already decided that we do not want to leave anything “in trust” to underage beneficiaries as the estate can not be closed until they turn whatever age we want them to have the money (in this case, we feel 25 is a good age). We have a friend as the executor and we want his job to be very quick and cut-and-dry…Well, as much as these things can be…LOL. We are not sure what beneficiary to leave their portion to…You’d think it would be their mother/step-mother, but both she and my brother-in-law are terrible with money. We would like to think they would never rob their children of their inheritance (and very likely they wouldn't), but because it would only be a bequest and not a legal beneficiary request in the will, we are concerned of the small possibility they may justify using the kid’s share for something they want (a new car to tote the family around, down payment on a home, etc. Not necessarily totally selfish, but not what we intended it for, either). We considered my mother and father-in-law to receive the kid’s portion instead, but I could see how that might insult my sister-in-law :S

Any tips in terms of beneficiaries? Is it faux pas that we are picking and choosing what children to leave an inheritance to? We love all of our nieces and nephews dearly, but I think the older ones would understand more why we left them something. Or does that really matter? Is 25 still to young to inherit money?

Any advice on this/any other tips for the will would be appreciated!


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

As considered our will and our kids, we have come to the conclusion not to try and mange from the grave. In our case, the beneficiaries are easy, they are my kids split evenly. How you want to split it is really up to you. 

A. If you don't want to give them an inheritance because you don't have a relationship, then don't include them. Who cares when you are dead that they may feel left out if you don't have the relationship. If you do have a relationship, and d just aren't seeing them as often as you like, then find a way to see them more and show them what they mean to you buy putting them in.

B. I just my opinion, an intheritnace is not just about if they would remember you now. You probably aren't dying soon, I hope. So as the kids get older, and if you develop a relationship with them, are you going to change your will? What if then you don't have a relationship with them, do you change it again.

C. I think you really have to just decide what are you criteria for the inheritance. It sounds like it primarily base on your current relationships. That is totally fine since it's your money. The question remains are you going to change your will as relationships 

D. Our kids inheritances are in trust. Our reasoning is because they are young then you don't want to drop a large sum of money on the kids when they cannot handle it. It is a really hard question of 25 is too young or old enough until they are closer to that age. I know my siblings had their will 'in trust' but then when they were a little older they changed it. 

How you want to split your money is your choice. Kon mind that though you are basing it with the currently relationships, and the younger will not get anything or as much because they have less time with you, they parents (your siblings) may also view what their kids egg and don't egg as a reflection of how your think of them as a family unit. 

Final thought is that our lawyers have told us not to name charities in wills. You can have one of the beneficiaries give them money instead. There have been cases that charities will contest wills to try and get it all because all the legal fees come out of the estate first, and they have nothing to lose. We have told our wished that we would like amout a to be donated to charity but they will not be named in the will.


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

Plugging Along said:


> B. I just my opinion, an intheritnace is not just about if they would remember you now. You probably aren't dying soon, I hope. So as the kids get older, and if you develop a relationship with them, are you going to change your will? What if then you don't have a relationship with them, do you change it again.


That is the beauty behind leaving their inheritance to an adult beneficiary - The bequests can be changed at any time. As our nephews get older and if our relationship develops more with our step-nieces, than we may feel more inclinded to leave them something. But say we had a falling out with one of our nieces or nephews...Or maybe, God forbid, they began and addiction like drinking, drugs or gambling... and we left them something in trust; It would be a lot more hassle to change that trust account than it would to alter a bequest letter in the will. There is never a guarantee that the bequests will be carried out exactly the way we want, but if we were to pass away several months from now, our estate could not be closed for another 10 years if we left it in trust to them.



Plugging Along said:


> Final thought is that our lawyers have told us not to name charities in wills. You can have one of the beneficiaries give them money instead. There have been cases that charities will contest wills to try and get it all because all the legal fees come out of the estate first, and they have nothing to lose. We have told our wished that we would like amout a to be donated to charity but they will not be named in the will.


That is something to think about - We will consider that, thank you!


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

One way is to will people a very small amount $100 or $2. 

When we up date our wills I'm putting a clause that anybody contesting this will get $2. Have fun hiring a lawyer.

Yes we have a relative that will most likely contest the will. Surprise!


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

How about for this your first will, name only immediate relatives ... brothers, sisters ... and let them decide any further distribution. You can attach your wishes to the will, but not make it part of the will. Wills should be revisited now and then, you can, and likely will, make changes down the road. Yep ... the first will seems overwhelming my opinion because we tend to think unnecessary detail ... your lawyer will help out with that.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

DayTek said:


> .. But say we had a falling out with one of our nieces or nephews...Or maybe, God forbid, they began and addiction like drinking, drugs or gambling... and we left them something in trust; It would be a lot more hassle to change that trust account than it would to alter a bequest letter in the will.


What you are describing is a living trust (or inter vivos trust). Testamentary trusts are not created until after you die. So you can change the will at any time without complications.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We had a convoluted will when we had it written in 1995. When we revised it in 2009, we simplified everything. Like others have said, when it read you're dead. We eliminated the charitable remainder trust and many heirs. By the time we go, they will be beyond caring.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Ensure that you have a beneficiary for each asset. Don't leave it to an 'estate' and pay Probate tax.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kcowan said:


> By the time we go, they [heirs] will be beyond caring.



i knew it, kcowan is going to outlive his heirs & all of us here in cmf forum.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

This is a very difficult issue and a very personal one for all of us.As you guys probably know my brother died just 4 months ago and I thought I knew what he had planned for his estate.He gave all of the 'adults' in his life cash before he died and expressed his concerns and wishes then.He died just 10 days after his only child turned 18 years old.When his ex wife found out he had terminal cancer she went house shopping counting on a big life insurance policy that would go to her if he died before his daughter turned 18.The will we discussed he was leaving money to his daughter but the will he did behind closed doors which I struggle with even today he left everything to me.His daughter is full time student so she is getting money each month from his pensions and he had a fully funded RESP for her and money in their joint account for her that he built up last year of his life.Our mother knew what he was doing and he told her that his daughter had enough and he did not want to spoil her and more importantly he felt her mother would just take advantage of her.
If you feel closer to only 2 of the 6 kids then in my opinion it is fine to leave everything to them or you can give the other 4 a token amount so they don't feel completely left out.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

perhaps people are forgetting that a minor cannot inherit? there must always be a trustee in place, until each minor heir reaches the age of majority.

to avoid the costs & administrative burden of formal trusteeship, it's always possible to insert a clause in a will stipulating that a minor's inheritance can be made over to the parent, tutor or guardian of the minor child. In such cases, bequests are made over in outright ownership. The parent tutor or guardian is not obligated to hold the funds in trust until the minor reaches the age of majority. 

but making over to the siblings who are the parents of the nieces & nephews is, apparently, what the OP wants to prevent. Nor does she want the executor to serve as trustee. Nor does she seem to have any other trustee candidates. 

hopefully the lawyer will be able to think of some solution.

ps a bequest set forth in a will is not something that can be altered easily. Changing it will require another visit to the lawyer plus preparation of another will or at least a codicil that will amend the bequest.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Discuss it with your lawyer, but IMHO the nephews and nieces are not direct descendants, and would have little standing to challenge an uneven division; nor I think would any of their parents. Under Canadian estate law (and most countries based on British common law) you have considerable freedom in whom you leave your estate to. 

If you want to pick and choose amongst the nieces and nephews, that's your privilege. Just don't tell any of the family about it, or you will start a family feud. It might be a lot easier to treat them all equally though. 

Talk to your lawyer about minor children. But unless it is going to be a lot of money(each) I would be inclined to let the parents worry about how to keep inheritances in trust for minor children. If they cheat their children after you are dead it won't be your problem.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> i knew it, kcowan is going to outlive his heirs & all of us here in cmf forum.


:encouragement:

Actually, it is just math. Let's say I go at 85. My kids are then early 60s and theirs around 40ish. By then their lives will be established and extra money will probably go to their kids (my great-grandkids).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

me i think u should bequeath to the grandchildren - great-grandchildren are too young & iffy - while continuing to angelically conduct the annual cmf market prediction contest


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

I went through a nightmare will situation myself a couple of years ago. My only advice to you is to write out your reasons for doing things (eg, giving more money to one beneficiary over another etc), in a separate letter which would not be apart of the actual will.

This would help if a will challenge does occur when both of you pass away. You would obviously give your wills and estate lawyer a copy of this letter and of course keep a copy for yourself. 

Last thing. IMHO use a lawyer that is a wills and estate specialist and not just a general practitioner lawyer. Best of luck with everything.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Squash500 said:


> Last thing. IMHO use a lawyer that is a wills and estate specialist and not just a general practitioner lawyer. Best of luck with everything.


and depending on your province, make two wills to cover different classes of assets if relevant, especially in BC and Ontario. We are thinking of one executor for everything in Canada and another will/executor for everything else (mostly Mexico).

http://www.advisor.ca/tax/estate-planning/using-multiple-wills-for-probate-planning-166200
http://www.lycosasset.com/Multiple-Wills.html


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

A bit off top but I'm leaving the total of my estate exclusively to my ex wife. We have a 5 year old and making a trust for him of my dead money sounds like a big complication that doesn't benefit him the most. I also think leaving a kid expecting a million bucks when he turns 18 would actually be good for him at all. Leaving my entire estate to a person I don't particularly line I think will result in what is ultimately best for my son. A bit of a bitter realization to swallow though.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

Although this wouldn't affect the OP because she has stated that they will not be having children, some of you may not know that British Columbia is the only province in Canada where an adult child can successfully challenge a parent's will without having to prove financial need, making it more difficult than in other provinces to disinherit one or more of your children.

http://www.mclellanherbert.com/Arti...-varies-wills-to-prevent-disinheritance.shtml
http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=20769


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Actually, I AM taking it with me (when I go) !!!!
But seriously folks.... I hear a lot of talk like "be sure you avoid PROBATE fees when you die".
Can someone who knows kindly explain just waht PROBATE is .... and, how one goes about avoiding it? and I believe probate rules are different from province to province? thanks!
Oh yeah....and PLEASE watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVaQ5aeGiO0


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

In basic terms, probate is the court process to determine that a Will is valid. 

Except for the most simplest of wills where there is essentially zero likelihood of a will being contested, where there is only one family member and that family member is the beneficiary, and there is no real estate involved (and maybe no vehicle involved), no executor would/should disburse the estate without going through probate. A will must be probated in Canada if real estate is involved (Quebec may be slightly different).

The amount of the estate that needs to be probated can be minimized by having beneficiaries for registered accounts like TFSA, RRSP/RRIF, or by having JTWROS accounts, i.e. joint accounts with right of survivorship to the remaining joint owners. Other than a spouse though, joint accounts have vulnerabilities and should be used very judiciously.... especially between parents and children, between siblings et al. Joint accounts can be seized by a creditor of any of the joint owners. There may also be CRA consequences in the absence of a formal agreement between the joint owners on the percentage splits of the account for tax purposes.

I know real life cases where Wills were contested by family relatives, often a stunning surprise by the other beneficiaries. The court fight can go on for years. Money brings out the worst in people, especially between children/neices/nephews when the last parent/uncle/aunt dies.

Avoiding probate is often penny wise and pound foolish.


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