# If I use RBC Direct Investing, can I put together a Couch potato model portfolio?



## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

Can I do that using *just *RBC DI? I want to put one of those model ports in an RRSP. Thinking Questrade is another option. Just not sure if I can buy all the index mutual funds in something like the average Cough Potato that I want by only using one brokerage... thanks!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I would think it depends on whether you have particular MFs or ETFs you want to use and whether RBC DI offers them.

If you don't care whether any given fund is Vanguard, BMO, TD or iShares - I suspect they offer at least one of everything you would want.


Build a list and either check their web site or give them a call to confirm.


Cheers


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Couch potato portfolio is not predicated on a specific company.

You cannot setup a TD e-series couch potato portfolio with RBC DI, and I don't know access to CIBC and BMO Index funds that have have begun to be popular in some small niche circles, but ETFs, and certain MFs are accessible to all discount brokerages I know of.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Sampson said:


> You cannot setup a TD e-series couch potato portfolio with RBC DI, and I don't know access to CIBC and BMO Index funds that have have begun to be popular in some small niche circles, but ETFs, and certain MFs are accessible to all discount brokerages I know of.


Why can't you buy TD e-series through RBC DI?


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

I found that I could open a demo account with Questrade. I did that and found that the Average Cough Potato model portfolio that Cdn Coucn Potato has is made up of ETFs and indexes that trade on the open markets. I was able to add each of the items they listed and put them in a demo rrsp account. This appears to be exactly what I'm looking for. That way, I can open an RRSP account, set it up with the specific ETFs and other funds I want, and just buy numbers of shares to reflect my balance of equity and fixed income assets. RBC DI would be the same. I guess it all comes down to which service and fees I'm ok with. RBC also has a practice account that you can sign up for. That'll give me a good idea of what I'd like to use.

I imagine the Cdn couch potato model portfolios were created with this in mind, that anyone can create a portfolio using any broken with access to the open market. I have much more research to do.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

cainvest said:


> Why can't you buy TD e-series through RBC DI?


Because TD doesn't let them?!?

I had to double check my RBC DI account to make sure, but I believe only you can only buy them through TD Mutual funds, Asset Management, or Waterhouse.

Just like many "X"-series/class funds are exclusive to full service brokers.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

looking at the fees for RBC, they seem very high for someone like me. I'd be doing 26 trades per year (1 year pay period) and I have less that 50k in household assets as defined by RBC. That's a $28 min fee for every trade if I'm not mistaken. If I want to split my bi-weekly investment between 6 ETF/index funds every time, that's just not cool. $168 every two weeks. Is that right???

Am I understanding this wrong? If I have $700 each payday to invest and break that up between 6 ETFs, is that usually considered 6 trades? I'm just looking to set money aside for me retirement on a regular basis.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Sampson said:


> Because TD doesn't let them?!?
> 
> I had to double check my RBC DI account to make sure, but I believe only you can only buy them through TD Mutual funds, Asset Management, or Waterhouse.
> 
> Just like many "X"-series/class funds are exclusive to full service brokers.


They come up on my iTrade purchase screen, so they seem available???
I also didn't see an info on their website or PDF that says TD only. https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/Download/TDB902E.pdf
There is a statement in the PDF about the fund paying a trailer commission to your investment firm or discount broker, seems pretty general and not specific to TD.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

In your scenario, <$50k in assets, it might be best to stick with the TD e-series form of the couch potato. This ensure minimal transaction fees. I know that Questrade is relatively cheap, but if you rebalance even twice per year, then the fees will add to your MER and it will either be awash, or in many instances, the TD e-series will have lower costs.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

cainvest said:


> They come up on my iTrade purchase screen, so they seem available???


What is the ticker symbol and I'll have another look. Could be I just can't find them.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

Sampson said:


> In your scenario, <$50k in assets, it might be best to stick with the TD e-series form of the couch potato. This ensure minimal transaction fees. I know that Questrade is relatively cheap, but if you rebalance even twice per year, then the fees will add to your MER and it will either be awash, or in many instances, the TD e-series will have lower costs.


Perhaps the question I should be asking is a step back. If I want to invest $700 every two weeks into my RRSP until I max out, what is the best way to do this?

I guess the other option is to just save up all year and do my RRSP purchases in a series of trades once a year. If I wanted to buy 6 different ETF/indexes, I'd just buy those at the end of the year and only pay for 6 trades. That sucks because I'd miss out on a whole year of interest earnings.


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

Questrade offers commission free etf purchases. They also have competitive gic rates compared to the banks if you ever expand beyond registered accounts. They currently offer 2.4% on 5 year, 0.15% below gicdirect but well ahead of the banks.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Restlessrick,

You can invest/contribute to your RRSP anytime, as much as you wish, until you max out.

A better question might be: what do you want to invest in? Have you selected your choices?

Once their portfolios are set up, most investors I know tend to rebalance their portfolios a few times per year. They simply let the portfolio do its thing.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

$1600 Gold by 2011 said:


> Questrade offers commission free etf purchases. They also have competitive gic rates compared to the banks if you ever expand beyond registered accounts. They currently offer 2.4% on 5 year, 0.15% below gicdirect but well ahead of the banks.


You are correct, I can't believe I missed that point about Questrade and their free ETF purchases. That would be good if I decide to use all ETFs in my RRSP which is kind of what I was thinking anyway. Good info.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> Restlessrick,
> 
> A better question might be: what do you want to invest in? Have you selected your choices?


I'm thinking of a mix of ETFs and index funds... still in the early stages but a self-directed with something like that.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

cainvest said:


> They come up on my iTrade purchase screen, so they seem available???
> I also didn't see an info on their website or PDF that says TD only. https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/Download/TDB902E.pdf
> There is a statement in the PDF about the fund paying a trailer commission to your investment firm or discount broker, seems pretty general and not specific to TD.


They also come up as "available" at CIBC Investor's Edge. But when you try and place an order it gets rejected. 

<Trying to buy the TD E-series Canadian Index Fund>








To the Admins, why do you have such a small limit (20k) on image uploads? Can that be increased?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Xoron said:


> They also come up as "available" at CIBC Investor's Edge. But when you try and place an order it gets rejected.
> 
> <Trying to buy the TD E-series Canadian Index Fund>
> View attachment 256


Ok, that's good to know ... funny they allow it on the trade screen but disallow the actual purchase.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Ok, that's good to know ... funny they allow it on the trade screen but disallow the actual purchase.


Yes, it looks like the only way to buy the TD e series with the low MER is through TD waterhouse. I'm really liking what I'm reading about these.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

Sampson said:


> In your scenario, <$50k in assets, it might be best to stick with the TD e-series form of the couch potato. This ensure minimal transaction fees. I know that Questrade is relatively cheap, but if you rebalance even twice per year, then the fees will add to your MER and it will either be awash, or in many instances, the TD e-series will have lower costs.


Sampson, I'm starting to like the TD e series now that I've been reading about them more. The questrade and free ETF purchases are cool and cheap but for a little bit more MER, like .10 - .20 %, it seems like a simpler way to do it through a TD DI account. 

If a person choose the CDN, international, and US index funds offered through the TD e series, that's an MER of .39%. The 10 year return of those three combined is 5.87. That's a hair lower than the average couch potato 15 year return.

This is nice, seems like a great place to start. We have about 10k to start with, lots of RRSP room, and we'll be saving fast because we are debt free. After a few years and getting past the 50 or 100k mark, it might be time for ETFs as couch potato states.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

And don't take them from TD Waterhouse, just get a normal mutual fund account from TD Bank. That way, you won't have to pay any account fees. For RRSPs less than some threshold (25 or 50k, I can't remember) at Waterhouse there's an annual fee of $100.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

With TDW, if >$25 K in RRSP or RRIF, you avoid paying any annual admin. fee.

http://www.tdwaterhouse.ca/products...ting/accounts/self-directed-rsp-rif/index.jsp


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> With TDW, if >$25 K in RRSP or RRIF, you avoid paying any annual admin. fee.
> 
> http://www.tdwaterhouse.ca/products...ting/accounts/self-directed-rsp-rif/index.jsp


I'd pass that in about 1.5 years anyway so I'd only pay it once or twice at the max. The freedom of other investments after my RRSP is maxed and I'm passed the 25k may be worth that annual fee.

I'll have to look into the straight mutual fund accounts though if I can do the exact thing I want through them for my RRSP anyway.

I guess I need to figure out if I need TD DI or just a regular TD account where I can buy the e series.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I think you have a great plan. Early on, it is most important to get your savings routine and meet some targets for socking away money. The Couch Potato part (not the indexing part) is perfect since it is hands off and gives you more time to focus on the learning and maturing as an investor.

By the time you hit the $ thresholds for reduced commissions etc, you'll have learned enough to make the next step decisions etc.

good luck!


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## badgerb0b (Mar 31, 2013)

I am using RBC DI through my work RRSP program since that is what they offer. I have it set up:

25% - RBC U.S. INDEX CURRENCY NEUTRAL FUND (558)
25% - RBC CANADIAN INDEX FUND (556)
25% - RBC CANADIAN GOVT BOND INDEX FUND NL (563)
25% - RBC INTERNATIONAL INDEX CURRENCY NEUTRAL FUND (559)

There is no cost to buy/sell the RBC funds and they have fairly reasonable MER's since they are indexes.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

badgerb0b said:


> I am using RBC DI through my work RRSP program since that is what they offer. I have it set up:
> 
> 25% - RBC U.S. INDEX CURRENCY NEUTRAL FUND (558)
> 25% - RBC CANADIAN INDEX FUND (556)
> ...


Hopefully you have access to the D Series funds.


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## recklessrick (Jun 16, 2013)

badgerb0b said:


> I am using RBC DI through my work RRSP program since that is what they offer. I have it set up:
> 
> 25% - RBC U.S. INDEX CURRENCY NEUTRAL FUND (558)
> 25% - RBC CANADIAN INDEX FUND (556)
> ...


Very cool, the exact same idea I had been investigating with TD DI. Sounds like all the banks have their flavour for index investing and it comes down to MER and your personal taste for the indexes available through each bank. CDN Couch Potato speaks highly of the RBC index it well it seems.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I don't believe there is a D series for these particular funds.


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