# About time Canada institutes a "Lemon law" for new cars that keep breaking down



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

*About time Canada institutes a "Lemon law" for new cars that keep breaking down*

Watching the CBC Marketplace clip last night. The host was commentating a lady in BC (read the article below) that bought a new Dodge Journey and has had nothing but trouble with the car stalling (over 25 times) on her. Dealership can't seem to get a handle on the problem and the stalls continue.

<excerpt from the article below>
_Walls took the new SUV into the dealership, but the problems continued. The B.C. mother estimates the vehicle has stalled nearly 25 times over a year, *causing her to leave it unused in the driveway most days out of fear.*_ 

_Both the local dealership, Regency Chrysler in Quesnel, B.C., and the vehicle's maker, Chrysler Canada, refused to take responsibility, said Walls.

"[Chrysler Canada tells] me it’s the dealership's problem. It’s not their problem,"
said Walls. "I call the dealership and the dealership says 100 per cent that it's Chrysler Canada’s problem. … Well, whose problem is it?"_ <end>

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/10/04/f-lemon-cars-marketplace-law.html?cmp=rss


so you pay your money, get stuck with a lemon and the manufacturer and dealership are in a face off as to who's problem this is?
If the vehicle is under manufacturer's warranty and the dealer can't seem to fix it, then Chrysler Canada should be helping the
customer at another dealer, who can diagnose..or replace the faulty computer part or sensor!

Canada definitely needs a lemon law!


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

Canada will say that it's BC's responsibility to enact regulation for consumer protection.

BC will argue that it's Canada's responsibility to protect its citizen. each:

L'office de la protection du consommateur in Quebec would be a good thing to export to other provinces.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

carverman said:


> then Chrysler Canada should be helping the
> customer at another dealer, who can diagnose..or replace the faulty computer part or sensor!


Seems like a pretty straight forward solution.

And if multiple dealerships have issue, then the owner and the dealerships should have a good case against the Corp.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

ya no lemon law in Canada is BS...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sampson said:


> Seems like a pretty straight forward solution.
> 
> And if multiple dealerships have issue, then the owner and the dealerships should have a good case against the Corp.


Well this may be a case, I think where there is no scan codes in the PCM (powertrain control module) vehicle computer, but the
vehicle stalls because some sensor is not up to par. Most sensors when they fail will set a p-code in the computer's memory and
that makes it a lot easier to diagnose. The fact that the vehicle decides to die in the middle of the highway, means that it
could also be an intermittent problem like a electrical connection.

On the Chrysler vehicles, there is an ASD (auto shutdown relay) that the vehicle's computer operates or releases, if it thinks there is a serious (or perceived) sensor fault. When the ASD is released, the ignition and injectors are prevented from working, and the engine dies immediately.

If it was me, I would be devising a simple 12 volt monitor on that ASD relay that would survive everything except a battery power disconnect.

This is what they call a logic flip-flop. You have a set and reset input and two outputs for turning on Leds. Once the ASD relay contacts (that provide +12v to the coils, injectors and 02 sensor heaters is released) , then the flip-flop is triggered, an an LED lights. 

At that point, it could be due to some of the critical sensors (crank or cam), or the PCM that is malfunctioning...but the dealership probably can't determine what is wrong with the vehicle, because no codes are set when the engine shuts down. 

Not hard to do, and it would at least indicate that the vehicle's engine was shut down that way. If it was, then certain sensors on the
engine could be replaced at once in an attempt to fix the problem..and failing a solution there..replace the vehicle's computer (PCM)
under suspicion that it is malfunctioning under certain conditions.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Apparently CBC Marketplace went to the owner's place and hooked up this scanning machine to the car's computer, drove it around in all sorts of
traffic and speed conditions...and NOthing! The car did not fail on CBC marketplace or the expert with the scanner. Dealership couldn't find
anything wrong either, and they spent around 18 minutes on it, each time she brought it back complaining of stalling. 

What should the dealership or Chrysler Canada do in this case, if no (apparent) problem can be found with this Dodge Journey?

a. give her another same year vehicle (Dodge Journey)
b) offer her another different model for the same price as she paid originally
c) give her money back
d) give her free oil changes as long as she owns that car
e) tell her she is imagining a problem witch doesn't really exist with that car


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