# Selling without realtor?



## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Has anyone here sold their house without a realtor?
Is it a difficult/time-consuming process?

Went through the buying process about 5 years ago and found that the realtor added very little value. The lawyer played a far more important role in my opinion. 

Is there any significant benefit to using a realtor as a seller?

I'm thinking of selling my house in Toronto in the near to medium term as I'll likely be leaving the city. Given the market here in Toronto, I don't think finding a seller will be an issue. 

One factor to consider is that I may be able to write off the moving expenses, which should reduce the actual cost by 30-40% on an after-tax basis.


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Dmoney said:


> Has anyone here sold their house without a realtor?
> Is it a difficult/time-consuming process?
> 
> Went through the buying process about 5 years ago and found that the realtor added very little value. The lawyer played a far more important role in my opinion.
> ...


Heard it's not difficult (though somewhat time consuming), but might want to consider a comfree type listing or 1% realtor. You'd generally still have to offer 2.5% for the buyer agent. But if it's in a really desireable location, I suppose the market will find the price and potential buyer might force the realtor to bid. Overall, the realtors and the way they have set up offer night have helped fuelled the pricing environment we have today.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Depends on the market, in a hot market, it's easy to sell, in a slow market it's hard. It also depends on what kind of house you are selling. Ones with small markets are harder than say a starter home.

I've sold both with and without a realtor. You can also negotiate with your realtor to lower the commission.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Depends on the market, in a hot market, it's easy to sell, in a slow market it's hard. It also depends on what kind of house you are selling. Ones with small markets are harder than say a starter home.


Generic house in an exceptionally hot market with almost no supply.
Anything that has come to market in the last two months has sold within a couple of days.
But there has also been a wide spread for similar product, and I'm looking to maximize price.
Luckily, I'm not in a rush to sell, and can take my time, depending which route I go.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Best way to maximize your profit is to get on MLS. It's gives you maximum exposure. Of course, with no comisssion, some realtors won't show your house to their clients. 

The real key to selling real estate, I'm no expert since I tend to buy and hold usually, according to my realtor is listing at the right price. If you hit the right price, the place will sell. Too much and it sits. Too little and you leave something on the table...especially when you list it yourself. 

To me, the philosophy I use with my business, I believe you set a price you'll be happy with. If you get that, but could have gotten more, don't complain.


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Dmoney said:


> Generic house in an exceptionally hot market with almost no supply.
> Anything that has come to market in the last two months has sold within a couple of days.
> But there has also been a wide spread for similar product, and I'm looking to maximize price.
> Luckily, I'm not in a rush to sell, and can take my time, depending which route I go.


I would say in this market, anything goes, and buyers want a desirable property regardless so you just have to clean it up. List it for 6 days including open house and have a firm offer night. That's the method that is causing extreme bidding. Now are you planning to offer the 2.5% standard commission to the buyer?


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

I've sold a few houses without a realtor. My brother's house didn't sell in 6 months with a realtor and I'm now selling it for him using ComFree. He's had more offers with me than he did with the realtor by a factor of 3:1 so far and I've been showing it for a month.

There is some good advice in here. If you over-price your house, you will tend to get less than if it is priced correctly. By the time you lower your price, it will be a stagnant listing.

Also, there are techniques to selling houses. You need to know them: don't be an ******* (even if you are), don't talk to people much during a showing (just let them explore), if the house shows nicely then you let it sell itself, if the house is in bad shape then you mention you are very negotiable early in the showing and leave them on their own.

If you have a pitch, such as a comparable, have it printed out and available for people to take. Set up a small display in the kitchen for people to take what they want of your printed listing, comparables, recent utility bills if that's part of your pitch, and purchase offer forms.

Remember: They are already interested when they show up. Your job is to not put them off.

With regard to it being time consuming: it can be. If the house is priced correctly and the market is good, count on 5~10 hours of work. If there isn't much initial interest, you will need to hold open houses. Open houses take time but you can sit with a computer and do work, or whatever.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Just to point out, the number of showings is probably a poor metric. The number of people making offers is what's important. One of the "benefits" of a realtor is they put pressure on their clients to put in an offer (since that's how they get paid). This happens outside of the house.

I'm not saying tom's advice isn't good, but tire kickers just waste your time. I'd rather have one showing with an offer than 1000 showings and no offers.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

Interesting that we've had different experiences. I've found the grumpy guy who shows up and blows through the house in 10~12 minutes is more likely to put in an offer than the couple that shows up and looks at the house for 45 minutes, measuring for furniture and what not.

I make a point of being pleasant to everyone, even if they are jerks.

I had a grumpy guy purchase a house from me six years ago. He wasn't just grumpy, he was hostile. He asked the attic insulation value and I told him R60. That caused him to yell at me, "IT'S NOT R F-ING 60!". I just chuckled a bit and rolled with it.

When the transaction was complete and I handed him the keys, he was pretty sheepish and said something like, "I guess I owe you an apology." I told him, "No problem at all. You've already apologized three hundred and sixty thousand times." lol!


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Oh misunderstood me, I don't care if the one guy is grumpy or nice, I just care that he makes the offer. I too don't like the 45 min tire kicker. They just wasted more of my time.

Anyway, I was just saying the number through the door isn't important. Just like the number of clicks to a website is meaningless if it doesn't generate you money in some way, it's just costing me bandwidth.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I sold my last house in Winnipeg using ComFree. The process was very easy and they provide good value. I would recommend ComFree. My neighbour gave up on an MLS realtor after many months of nothing happening. He sold the place himself using ComFree in 2 weeks!


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I have sold houses without a realtor. Comfree and similar listing sites didn't do anything. Best results came from the 5 day method, yes you can sell your house in 5 days and it works.

http://www.5-daysale.com/

Another thing that worked was advertising the property and dropping the price $5000 every week ( this was a $125000 semi detached in a small town, many years ago). Advertised, with the weekly price drop, open house every Saturday, first 2 weeks nothing, 3th week got 4 offers with deposits, sold for $115000.

You have to make up your mind if you want to sell or piss around. Nobody is going to pay more than they have to, because of your charming personality or amazing ad writing skills. Of course this only applies to normal markets, I don't know what it is like to sell in Toronto or Vancouver.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Its easy if you have some basic knowledge in RE. It could be a nightmare if you have no clue.

For me, its very easy to sell without a realtor which is why I recommend it but it may not be for everyone.
My advice is to get informed before you list.


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## dougbos (Jun 4, 2012)

There are less expensive alternatives to ComFree out there. There are some points to consider if you are thinking of selling it yourself. Can you be available at all hours to answer phones and emails that have inquired and for unexpected showings? Are you prepared to battle with an experienced realtor who is bringing clients in and is trying to get the best price for his/her clients? When an offer is handed to you, do you know how to read it and all the fine print. This is a legal document so you need to know what you are signing. Do you have a lawyer that will read it over and advise you on red flags that the other party may have thrown in? Others have mentioned about the right listing price. For $300-$400 you might want to have a professional appraiser do an appraisal and set a price. You can show this to prospective buyers. You might want to have a home inspection done so buyers can read it and see if any problems exist that might cost money to repair. Good luck if you go ahead.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, some helpful advice here. I've looked at ComFree and a few similar outfits, and it seems like a fairly straightforward process. But at the same time, I worry about leaving $$ on the table in excess of the cost of commission. 
I see some value in a realtor, in terms of handling the admin, the whole sale process, dealing with showings etc., I just find it very difficult to cut what will amount to a $40-60k cheque for the service. Particularly given that the exact same service (arguably less) in a cheaper market comes at a fraction of the price.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Ihave always used a realtor and my agent is also a very good friend but it would sting to pay the 80k in fees if I ever sold my existing home ,especially in the markets we have today .I bet if i put a cardboard sign up I could sell my house any weekend now without any effort.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

marina628 said:


> Ihave always used a realtor and my agent is also a very good friend but it would sting to pay the 80k in fees if I ever sold my existing home ,especially in the markets we have today .I bet if i put a cardboard sign up I could sell my house any weekend now without any effort.


That's my thinking as well. I have no doubt the place will sell, my only concern is maximizing my net proceeds. If an agent can extract 5% more out of a buyer than I can listing myself, it's worth the money. I just find it hard to believe that this is the case.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

In a way it's a silly question. You'll never know what a realtor will get compared to selling it yourself. You can only sell the house once. 

Also, you'll only ever have one buyer. If you find it, or someone else brings it, there is still only one house. 

The price you sell for is the price you finally settle on. Its always going to be maximized because you can never get more and we're happy to accept the number. It's the most you could get at the time you settled. 

As I said before, you have to set a price you want and try for that. If you get a realtor, add his fee to the price you want and don't go below that. If a realtor gets you more, then he was with it. If he comes back with less, don't agree to it and try to sell it yourself for the price you want...if you think you can (maybe your number is to high). 

No one ever forces you to sell.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Dmoney said:


> That's my thinking as well. I have no doubt the place will sell, my only concern is maximizing my net proceeds. If an agent can extract 5% more out of a buyer than I can listing myself, it's worth the money. I just find it hard to believe that this is the case.


so even if the agent does extract an extra 5%, you have to fork it over to him. what's the point? And extracting an extra $40k-$60k is no easy feat. Bottom line, you set a price you want and stick to it. If you are unsure of the value, get your place appraised. The appraisal cost is minimal and you eliminate lengthy negotiations with potential buyers since you have a known value.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Good point on shooting for a number and being satisfied with it.
I have an agent coming over, will listen to the pitch, ask my questions then make a decision.

I'm looking to take advantage of a market that in my opinion has lost its mind. I think realtors are a big part of the market running away, by scaring their clients into getting in before their "dream home" is out of reach. 

My concern with the comfree route is that buying agents will keep their clients away. Ideally, I want buyers' agents working for me, by pushing their clients to put in the highest bid possible. 

Not sure how that dynamic would change with vs. without a realtor on my end.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Dmoney said:


> Good point on shooting for a number and being satisfied with it.
> I have an agent coming over, will listen to the pitch, ask my questions then make a decision.
> 
> I'm looking to take advantage of a market that in my opinion has lost its mind. I think realtors are a big part of the market running away, by scaring their clients into getting in before their "dream home" is out of reach.
> ...


Yes, the agents will steer away however you should know that the majority of buyers find potential homes on their own. So if they want yours, they will come get it - unless they rely heavily on their agent who will discourage them. Then again, you can always offer some candy - such as a 1% commission to any agent who brings in a client.


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## Newby1983 (Apr 9, 2015)

I sold without a realtor and used Comfree. Is it time consuming? Not really when you consider each time a realtor shows your house you have to leave. When you sell yourself, you actually get to stay in the house and show it. So it's the same amount of time. 

You will sell your place without a realtor. However many buyer's agents will steer their buying client away from fsbo properties especially if you offer low or no commission. On my property I offered 2% commission to the buyer's agent. I had multiple offers. Each buyer up'd their offer and both agents dropped their commission (2% HST included and the other guy dropped to 1%). 

Things I found annoying - 1) agents calling to solicit their service to me 2) as JAG mentioned, the tire kickers 3) I had 1 unreasonable offer $100k below asking lol. 

You can screen callers. Ask them if they've been pre-approved, do they know the area, how much the house is worth, bedrooms. If they answer favorably to this they're probably serious. 

Also advise your lawyer of what you plan on doing before listing your house. 

And you should have a strong understanding of what your house is worth so you know what to settle on e.g. get an appraisal.

Held 1 open house, 20 showings and 2 "almost" offers (but that doesn't count) and 1 offer. The second offer came when the buyer's agent called and said "my client wants to see the house tomorrow at 11am".


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Newby1983 said:


> I sold without a realtor and used Comfree. Is it time consuming? Not really when you consider each time a realtor shows your house you have to leave. When you sell yourself, you actually get to stay in the house and show it. So it's the same amount of time.
> 
> You will sell your place without a realtor. However many buyer's agents will steer their buying client away from fsbo properties especially if you offer low or no commission. On my property I offered 2% commission to the buyer's agent. I had multiple offers. Each buyer up'd their offer and both agents dropped their commission (2% HST included and the other guy dropped to 1%).
> 
> ...


Would you do it again? Sell it again by yourself? Or enlist a 1% Realtor?


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## Newby1983 (Apr 9, 2015)

mossman1 said:


> Newby1983 said:
> 
> 
> > I sold without a realtor and used Comfree. Is it time consuming? Not really when you consider each time a realtor shows your house you have to leave. When you sell yourself, you actually get to stay in the house and show it. So it's the same amount of time.
> ...


 I personally do not like the real estate industry and how it operates so I would do it again. I was confident in my ability to negotiate and understand how real estate transactions work and how to prepare my house for sale Given you are in Toronto you should be familiar with how multiple offers work, what you can do to get the best offer of the bunch and what you cannot do in multiple offer scenario.


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Newby1983 said:


> I personally do not like the real estate industry and how it operates so I would do it again. I was confident in my ability to negotiate and understand how real estate transactions work and how to prepare my house for sale Given you are in Toronto you should be familiar with how multiple offers work, what you can do to get the best offer of the bunch and what you cannot do in multiple offer scenario.


Having bought a place recently, if you know what you're doing (ie budget), the buyer side is definitely overpaid. I still can't believe they get paid for what I already knew what I wanted, and in this market, pretty much no conditions. For a selling night, it's the same. Offer night, price, closing, no conditions. Be firm on the rules set out. I guess if you're willing to put in the time, and effort, definitely worth. I plan to maybe sit for the exam later on, more so for myself (to learn the official way, and as you mentioned, what's allowed and not), or for close friends that might need some help.


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