# Vacation spending thoughts



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

As we love to travel, my wife and I are constantly looking at possibilities and comparing them. For example, we are currently considering trips to the Alsace Region of France, another trip to our favourite hiking destination in Switzerland, a visit to see my wife's family in Scotland and some shorter 2-5 day trips by car in Ontario. All possibilities for next year.

All of those except Ontario require trans-Atlantic travel obviously and this is where the difficulty or at least apparent difficulty of comparing them all comes into play vs. a trip in Ontario by car. When we look at Ontario, we see hotel prices equal to or in some cases greater than hotel prices elsewhere. Canada is not cheap when it comes to hotel prices.

So what we tend to do is say, 'why pay $300 to stay in an Ontario hotel when we can stay in an equally as nice hotel in the Alsace for half that?' It is better 'value for money' to visit the Alsace and even in Switzerland we know of equally as nice hotels for less cost, although that is not all that common in Switzerland, they do exist.

My wife keeps saying she has lived in Canada for 13 years now and hasn't seen very much of it. Then we look at what it would cost us to go somewhere and say, 'it's not great value for money, do we really want to do that?' It's a circle we go around again and again. My latest thought is to change the perspective. Some here may realize that I am a big believer in 'perception is everything.' So if we can change our perception, we can perhaps make sense of vacationing in Canada as an alternative.

So here's my latest thinking. To visit Europe we must fly and that has a cost. Let's say $3k for a working number. We then have to add hotel costs on top of that. I'll ignore food and spending money since those remain pretty much the same wherever you go. If I then take the $3k and divide it by an average number of days per trip, let's say 10 days, that means we spend $300 per day on transportation, add $200 to $300 per day for a hotel and you get $5-600 per day of vacation.

If we then compare NOT just hotel prices but use the same formula, transportation plus hotel, for travel in Canada, we get say $50 per day gas for the car and $300 per day for a hotel, total $350 per day of vacation compared to $5-600 per day in Europe. That makes a Canadian vacation look cheap!

Why then is it that if we are willing to spend $5-600 per day to vacation in Europe we are not willing to spend the same in Canada? Why does it still stick in the craw when I look at a hotel in Ontario for $400 and say, 'that's too much'? I can only think that what is 'home and familiar' is just not worth as much to me as somewhere more 'interesting and different'. Is that the real issue I cannot change my perception of? Canada just ain't as interesting and so not worth spending as much?

How do you justify spending vacation money on travel in Canada vs. overseas? Or do you always see elsewhere as worth more as I seem to do?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We do not pay anything near that for European vacations. We find the costs to be similar on average. Higher in some locales, lower in others. The difference might be that we typically go for much longer, usually 6-8 weeks, and we do not always stay in four and five star hotels. Sometimes, B&B's, sometimes apartments or small family hotels, sometimes in five stars.

We do not have to justify it. We simply decide where we want to go and then make the plans. This past fall it was a week in Ontario cottage country followed by six weeks in Greece. The year before it was a coast to coast road trip that included NFLD, plus two weeks in Ireland via Westjet from NFLD, and return to Halifax to pick up the car that we left. This winter it will be either Thailand again or Mexico/Central America. Next it may be Morocco for a few weeks and then somewhere else, probably Spain. In between will be a trip or to to Vancouver. We are avoiding the US. Our currency is low, we have been so many times, and from our preferences there are much better places to spend a few months in winter than stateside.

Most our extended trips are definitely overseas. Often with a stop in Canada on the way. We have had some great last minute air from Toronto to places like Greece and Portugal in the past. All of our last minute AI's are south.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> We do not pay anything near that for European vacations. We find the costs to be similar on average. Higher in some locales, lower in others. The difference might be that we typically go for much longer, usually 6-8 weeks, and we do not always stay in four and five star hotels. Sometimes, B&B's, sometimes apartments or small family hotels, sometimes in five stars.
> 
> We do not have to justify it. We simply decide where we want to go and then make the plans. This past fall it was a week in Ontario cottage country followed by six weeks in Greece. The year before it was a coast to coast road trip that included NFLD, plus two weeks in Ireland via Westjet from NFLD, and return to Halifax to pick up the car that we left. This winter it will be either Thailand again or Mexico/Central America. Next it may be Morocco for a few weeks and then somewhere else, probably Spain. In between will be a trip or to to Vancouver. We are avoiding the US. Our currency is low, we have been so many times, and from our preferences there are much better places to spend a few months in winter than stateside.
> 
> Most our extended trips are definitely overseas. Often with a stop in Canada on the way. We have had some great last minute air from Toronto to places like Greece and Portugal in the past. All of our last minute AI's are south.


Well that's all fine ian but doesn't address the topic of the thread.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I think the OP is not looking at the big picture. If you make decisions where to go on vacation purely based on one financial indicator, such as the relative cost of a hotel, you are discounting all the other information that contributes to the value of the vacation to you, such as (1) how interesting the location is, (2) how safe it is, (3) whether you or DW really wants to go there, (4) how easy is it to get there, (5) whether your budget can accommodate it. 

Like Ian, I make decisions primarily based on my interest in a place. Then I evaluate the total cost of what I would like to do and decide whether that amount is worth it to me.

Right now I am weighing up several options for the next two years. I would like to go to Australia and New Zealand, but I am not willing to endure extreme long haul flights in economy class. The total cost of a trip that includes business class is more than I am willing to spend right now. Instead I am planning some road trips with friends in Canada. We will play golf on some of the most spectacular courses anywhere and we will have a blast.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I do not understand the financial justification business. We do not feel the need to justify travel as between domestic and international. We each have our respective bucket list that mesh together well. We understand that travel costs vary. It could be family, bucket list, desire to see friends on different continents. 

The only part financial plays into it is once we have made a decision or have a short list of two we try to get the best travel value we can-air, hotel, cars etc. Travel costs vary. It is less expensive to spend a month in Thailand than it is to spend a month in Australia. That does not mean we strike off Australia and spend the entire two months in Thailand because of cost.

The only real justification we do relates to elapsed time to destination. We have no issue with a quickie last minute seven day AI to Mexico etc. But, if we are going somewhere that requires as much as 12- 24 hours of elapsed air travel we tend to want to justify it by staying for at least a month, usually two months. That is as far as the justification goes. And in the winter when we go somewhere warm we don't justify the cost. We are trying to stay warm, enjoy the sun, the ocean, and the beach where ever we happen to end up.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I used to think much more about these travel costs on a per trip basis. Then a couple years ago, I realized that going somewhere warm & sunny during the winter is a huge health benefit to me. This changed my perspective on these and I've been doing them more often.

The real eye opener was last winter where I escaped from the office and spent several weeks in Hawaii + Australia. The feeling was unbelievable... I don't know what drugs are like, but the energy boost and frame of mind I had for the rest of winter, and into spring, was worth every penny. I also lost weight, got sick less often, and felt better for many months after. I even find that booking a nice trip, and the excitement of looking forward to it (the hope for warmth) is itself invigorating!

(Full disclosure: I also quit my office job so there are other factors at play. But I still really feel great going somewhere warm. For example two months ago I went to southern California and this also felt great, so it's not just about quitting my job.)

A trip somewhere warm is worth it for me, even if it's much more expensive than a trip within Canada. I don't make any comparison to Canadian domestic travel at all; they are not substitutes.

The only constraint I place on all this is budgeting my total annual expenses. I always watch my trailing 12 month spending and if I'm running too high, I delay spending. Currently I'm at 36K which is right about on mark, so if I feel like a trip today, I would book it.

Right now it's -25 outside, or -32 with windchill.

By the way, thanks to people at CMF for the great Hawaii tips and ideas last year.


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## Bobcajun (May 15, 2018)

I don't think longtmeago is trying to justify making a trip. He is going to do that one way or another, anyway. He is just trying to compare value, as we would in buying anything. And also wondering whether his unwillingness to pay the same price for canadian vacations as for those overseas might be a case of distaining a little what is close at hand simply because it is close at hand. To a cerain degree, value is in the eye of the beholder. I like to go to Europe for the cultural benefits which are not as great here. If i look at Canada from that angle, it is not worth it. I like to travel in Canada because of the vast nature reserves it holds. That is one of the reasons Europeans like to come here. So, from that angle it is worth it. But, when people travel they are looking for something different and exotic, though. I may be a cynic but to a certain degree this difference is a kind of romanticism. There aren't many places today that are truly different i don't believe. Much to the consternation of my wife i remember being inthe Sussex countryside, looking at the fields around me and wondering why i had gone to all the trouble and expense to come all the way to England when i could have enjoyed just as nice fields very near my home, with no trouble or expense involved. I suppose for a moment my romantic lenses disappeared and i saw it as it was. But, maybe we need to cultivate romanticism for our mental health. In fhe end i think you need to have a pretty good reason to go somewhere and then it is worth it

G


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> How do you justify spending vacation money on travel in Canada vs. overseas?


It just seems you like going overseas and don't like anything Canada has to offer for vacation time. Sounds simple enough, don't vacation in Canada ...


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Maybe we're outliers, but we've never had the travel bug...we're quite happy living in Canada but we do want to escape the cold for a while. So, we find a warm place at a reasonable price.

Last winter we shared an ocean front 3 bedroom 3 bathroom condo on the gulf in Florida with another couple, $6000 CDN for 2 months or $3000 for our share. That's just $50 a day and well worth it. This year we're going to Mazatlan using a relative's timeshare for a month. Flight and accomodations will be about $3000 and we'll have the place to ourselves...1 bedroom and full kitchen walking distance to a grocery store. $100 CND per day.

Next winter we may try Portugal or Spain...it all depends on what we can get for a good price that fits our parameters. But as above, we'll find somewhere that's inexpensive.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

heyjude said:


> I think the OP is not looking at the big picture. If you make decisions where to go on vacation purely based on one financial indicator, such as the relative cost of a hotel, you are discounting all the other information that contributes to the value of the vacation to you, such as (1) how interesting the location is, (2) how safe it is, (3) whether you or DW really wants to go there, (4) how easy is it to get there, (5) whether your budget can accommodate it.
> 
> *Like Ian, I make decisions primarily based on my interest in a place. * Then I evaluate the total cost of what I would like to do and decide whether that amount is worth it to me.
> ....


 ... +1. If the place is really where I want to be (i.e. experience et al), then the worthiness is all there.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> ...
> Right now it's -25 outside, or -32 with windchill.
> 
> ... .


 ... and please do not share with Ontario. So warm, not.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Bobcajun said:


> I don't think longtmeago is trying to justify making a trip. He is going to do that one way or another, anyway. He is just trying to compare value, as we would in buying anything. And also wondering whether his unwillingness to pay the same price for canadian vacations as for those overseas might be a case of distaining a little what is close at hand simply because it is close at hand. To a cerain degree, value is in the eye of the beholder. I like to go to Europe for the cultural benefits which are not as great here. If i look at Canada from that angle, it is not worth it. I like to travel in Canada because of the vast nature reserves it holds. That is one of the reasons Europeans like to come here. So, from that angle it is worth it. But, when people travel they are looking for something different and exotic, though. I may be a cynic but to a certain degree this difference is a kind of romanticism. There aren't many places today that are truly different i don't believe. Much to the consternation of my wife i remember being inthe Sussex countryside, looking at the fields around me and wondering why i had gone to all the trouble and expense to come all the way to England when i could have enjoyed just as nice fields very near my home, with no trouble or expense involved. I suppose for a moment my romantic lenses disappeared and i saw it as it was. But, maybe we need to cultivate romanticism for our mental health. In fhe end i think you need to have a pretty good reason to go somewhere and then it is worth it
> 
> G


Well it's nice to see at least one person seems to have understood what I was asking about. Everyone else seems to have just gone off on their own idea of what they want to write about, with no reference to the question I asked, "How do you justify spending vacation money on travel in Canada vs. overseas? Or do you always see elsewhere as worth more as I seem to do?"

I think it really is a question of what is in your own backyard is never as interesting as what is farther afield Bobcajun. So the only way it could be more appealing to vacation in Canada is if it were considerably cheaper. Not cheaper to save money but to increase the perception of it at least providing better 'value for money'. If my interest was only say 50% but the cost was only 50% then at least that would add up if you see what I mean. 

It isn't a question of having no interest in vacationing in Canada, it is a question of having LESS interest in a vacation in my own backyard. Money is not the problem, 'value for money' is the problem. What I get out of spending $500 a day in Canada does not equal what I get out of spending $500 a day in Europe. It's fine to not get as much out of one thing as another IF one does not cost you as much as another. If it only cost me $250 a day in Canada vs. $500 in Europe, I could accept that. I get less out of it but I pay less for it. Fair enough. But that is not the case, it costs as much to vacation in Canada as in Europe per day and the EXPERIENCE is not EQUAL. That is my issue.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> It just seems you like going overseas and don't like anything Canada has to offer for vacation time. Sounds simple enough, don't vacation in Canada ...


No, that is incorrect cainvest. There are places in Canada that I have some interest in, you can't say, 'don't like anything Canada has to offer' and just dismiss it that easily as being 'simple enough'. Again, as I keep trying to explain, it is a question of 'value for money'. If somewhere interests me MORE than somewhere else and both cost the same amount of money to visit, then how do you ever justify visiting the place that interests you LESS? 

Try this analogy. If you like eating a steak more than you like eating a hamburger and they both cost the same, when will you ever eat a hamburger? When the hamburger costs less than the steak, you don't have to ask yourself, 'why would I ever eat a hamburger', you'll eat one when you don't feel like spending as much as a steak costs or just for variety because you still feel you are getting reasonable 'value for money' when you eat either one.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> ... Fair enough. But that is not the case, it costs as much to vacation in Canada as in Europe per day and the EXPERIENCE is not EQUAL. That is my issue.


 ... why do you need to make it (the vacation) more complicated than it needs to be? to make it an "issue" or the need to "justify" it. Talk about the agony on having to simply "decide" on where to vacation because I would need to "justify" it. 

So it's more expensive to vacation in Canada but then I'm happy to be watching-the-whales or salmon-fishing in one of Canada's beautiful coasts instead of baking-in-the-sun in the Bahamas or having to heave-hiking up the pyramids of Egypt or bustling through the crowds in some (name your) overpopulated city or how about wading in Venice? :hororr:

Besides, it doesn't hurt the Canadian economy to spend your the money in your own backyard.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> Like Ian, I make decisions primarily based on my interest in a place. Then I evaluate the total cost of what I would like to do and decide whether that amount is worth it to me.


But that is the ISSUE heyjude. I make a decision based on interest and whether the amount is worth it to me and the answer comes up, 'no it is not worth it relative to spending the SAME amount for somewhere else of MORE interest.'

It isn't a question of NO interest at all, it is a question of degree of interest vs. value for money. I would like to take my wife for a week of travel around Cape Breton for example. I have a DEGREE of interest in doing that. I would also like to take her for a week in the Alsace region of France. If both will cost me the same per day to do so, which should I choose? If my interest in the Alsace is greater, the cost is the same, then how and when will I ever decide to visit Cape Breton? It will NEVER be an equal in terms of interest or value for money but that does not mean it is of NO interest.

Forget money, I can in fact afford to do both without difficulty financially. Money is not an issue. I could do both back to back tomorrow if we wanted to but when doing the Cape Breton part of that, I would feel I was not getting EQUAL 'value for money' compared to the Alsace. Can you see what I am saying? I'm not looking for a 'financial justification', I'm looking for a reason to spend the same amount and get LESS for my money in terms of 'value'. Value is the enjoyment, experience, etc. that I get, not the dollar cost. The only reason money comes into it is because the way we determine 'value for money' is by balancing one against the other.

Spend $100, get some individual value we rate as 100%. Great value for money.
Spend $100, get a value we rate as 75%. Not such great value for money.
Spend $100, get a value we rate as 50%. Lousy value for money.

Just looking at that, you will never opt to with the the 50% experience and probably never even go with the 75% experience. You will choose the 100% experience every single time. I'm asking, how do I get myself to pick a 50% experience? 

The ONLY way that can possibly happen is if I can change my perception somehow. Maybe that will never happen. I just thought I would ask if anyone here has the same dilemma and has found a way to get themselves to see it differently. We all justify our decisions to ourselves using various factors whether we even realize we do or not. You or ian do not decide to visit a place that is of less value to you over another place I would expect. If both will cost the same, you will always pick the place of greater interest/value. You'll never visit the place of less interest/value.

Some may say, well that's fine, why should I bother to visit a place of less interest? But that does not mean the place of less interest is not worth visiting at all. How then do you get to that place of less interest?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... why do you need to make it (the vacation) more complicated than it needs to be? to make it an "issue" or the need to "justify" it. Talk about the agony on having to simply "decide" on where to vacation because I would need to "justify" it.
> 
> So it's more expensive to vacation in Canada but then I'm happy to be watching-the-whales or salmon-fishing in one of Canada's beautiful coasts instead of baking-in-the-sun in the Bahamas or having to heave-hiking up the pyramids of Egypt or bustling through the crowds in some (name your) overpopulated city or how about wading in Venice? :hororr:
> 
> Besides, it doesn't hurt the Canadian economy to spend your the money in your own backyard.


Beaver101, you are saying you have MORE interest in Canada than elsewhere or at least an equal interest. If someone wants to visit the Pyramids more than they want to fish for stinking salmon, what then? What YOU prefer is not the issue here.

I don't have to make it complicated, I can go to Europe which is of more interest, every time if I wish. My question was how do I get myself to go somewhere in Canada when it is of LESS interest but costs the same? Got an answer to THAT question?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> If somewhere interests me MORE than somewhere else and both cost the same amount of money to visit, then how do you ever justify visiting the place that interests you LESS?


Again simple, you don't visit the place that interests you less ... why would you? 

If both cost the same obviously go to the place you'd rather go to. Maybe try to make the Canadian vacation even cheaper so *maybe* it appeals to you more, like stay at a $150 hotel instead of $300? Maybe one year it's not in your budget to go overseas but you still want a vacation ... then try Canada.



Longtimeago said:


> Try this analogy. If you like eating a steak more than you like eating a hamburger and they both cost the same, when will you ever eat a hamburger? When the hamburger costs less than the steak, you don't have to ask yourself, 'why would I ever eat a hamburger', you'll eat one when you don't feel like spending as much as a steak costs or just for variety because you still feel you are getting reasonable 'value for money' when you eat either one.


I would eat hamburger when I *want* food made with it, like a hamburger, tacos or sloppy joes, even if the price of the meats were the same.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Why would I care whether you or anyone else chooses to vacation in Europe instead of Canada? Why should I care about someone else's financial justification of their vacation. Stay home, visit Whitehorse, or go to Paris. Whatever.

It is not always about money. Personal preferences do play a part in most people's decisions.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ... and please do not share with Ontario. So warm, not.


Good news Beaver, we're up to -17 now. A couple more degrees and I can go outside for a walk. Just debating whether I need to wear the ski goggles for my walk.

I would find all this funny if it wasn't so horrific.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Some may say, well that's fine, why should I bother to visit a place of less interest? But that does not mean the place of less interest is not worth visiting at all. How then do you get to that place of less interest?


Another simple answer ... your wife wants to go, so put your lack of interest aside and go!
If you like, calculate the value in keeping your wife happy, maybe that'll tip the scales for you.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Again simple, you don't visit the place that interests you less ... why would you?
> 
> If both cost the same obviously go to the place you'd rather go to. Maybe try to make the Canadian vacation even cheaper so *maybe* it appeals to you more, like stay at a $150 hotel instead of $300? Maybe one year it's not in your budget to go overseas but you still want a vacation ... then try Canada.
> 
> ...


It would be nice to live in such a simple world as you seem to think there is cainvest. You ask, 'why would you' visit a place that interests you less?' Read my lips, it is not a place of NO interest, only less interest. It is still an INTERESTING place and worth visiting. How then to get yourself to go there?

Yes, I could reduce the cost somehow but that does NOT increase the 'value for money', it only reduces the cost. There is a difference. You can only compare equals. Staying in a 2 star hotel cannot be compared to staying in a 4 star hotel, they aren't equals. 

Your suggestion of 'maybe one year it's not in your budget to go overseas but you still want a vacation...then try Canada', makes no sense if the cost is the same per day for both. If you don't have the money for one then you don't have the money for the other. You are assuming a vacation in Canada will cost less when in fact it will not. It would only be by lowering your standards in Canada that you would get it to cost less per day.

Re when you would eat hamburger, my analogy said, 'If you like eating steak more than you like eating a hamburger'. So again, your response makes no sense. If you would ALWAYS prefer to eat a steak, when would you eat a hamburger? There would be no time when you would 'want food made with hamburger.' Especially if the cost was the same for both.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> Why would I care whether you or anyone else chooses to vacation in Europe instead of Canada? Why should I care about someone else's financial justification of their vacation. Stay home, visit Whitehorse, or go to Paris. Whatever.
> 
> It is not always about money. Personal preferences do play a part in most people's decisions.


Umm, because you are responding to a thread that is about ME not about YOU. You don't have to care, but if you are going to respond to a thread where I am asking a question that pertains to me, then your response should pertain to me don't you think? Come on ian, use your head.

No it's not about money and yes it is about personal preferences. Again, money is not the issue it is the personal preferences that are the issue. How do you get to do some of your LESS preferential choices? Really ian this is a philosophical question more than anything.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Another simple answer ... your wife wants to go, so put your lack of interest aside and go!
> If you like, calculate the value in keeping your wife happy, maybe that'll tip the scales for you.


Nope, again too easy. Your assumption here is that my wife's interest in visiting say Cape Breton is equal to her interest in visiting say Switzerland. I can assure you that is not the case BUT she does want to visit Cape Breton. The problem is in how to get yourself to choose the place of LESS interest.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> It would be nice to live in such a simple world as you seem to think there is cainvest. You ask, 'why would you' visit a place that interests you less?' Read my lips, it is not a place of NO interest, only less interest. It is still an INTERESTING place and worth visiting. How then to get yourself to go there?


It is simple in my world and I don't have problems like this one you've created for yourself.

BTW, I said "less interest" not "No interest" if you'd bother to read my post. 

So basically you're asking the forum for a way to convince yourself to go to a place of less interest over one of more interest?
Why would you want to do that?

Based on what I've read, your only hope is that the place of less interest will one day become the place of more interest (or value in your mind). Is there a way to change that ... Yes! Change your criteria on vacation planning. So maybe leave the decision up to chance, flip a coin for example.



Longtimeago said:


> Re when you would eat hamburger, my analogy said, 'If you like eating steak more than you like eating a hamburger'. So again, your response makes no sense. If you would ALWAYS prefer to eat a steak, when would you eat a hamburger? There would be no time when you would 'want food made with hamburger.' Especially if the cost was the same for both.


My response did make sense, I said "I would eat hamburger when I *want* food made with it". So in others words, maybe you'll understand this better, I would continue to eat steak until I changed my mind and *wanted* to eat hamburger. Understand now?

So your follow up question will be, based on your thoughts in this thread, how do I get myself to want hamburger right?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Beaver101, you are saying you have MORE interest in Canada than elsewhere or at least an equal interest. If someone wants to visit the Pyramids more than they want to fish for stinking salmon, what then? What YOU prefer is not the issue here.
> 
> I don't have to make it complicated, I can go to Europe which is of more interest, every time if I wish. My question was how do I get myself to go somewhere in Canada when it is of LESS interest but costs the same? Got an answer to THAT question?


 ... yes, let your wife decide where to vacation then or basically what cainvest was saying in post #20. Happy wife, happy life.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> you are responding to a thread that is about ME not about YOU. You don't have to care, but if you are going to respond to a thread where I am asking a question that pertains to me, then your response should pertain to me





Longtimeago said:


> What YOU prefer is not the issue here.



off with his head! shouted the Red Queen

this thread is about MEE! 

MEE i created this thread & nobody else gets to post one word unless MEE i approve of each & every syllable!

yes Ma'am whispered the Knave of Hearts

ever so faintly, Alice could hear the tiniest of snickers. It was barely audible. Less noise than a mosquito buzz

peeking sideways at the Dormouse, Alice saw that Dormouse appeared to be sleeping. On his face was a rictus. The little girl could not tell whether it was a smirk or a snore


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Nope, again too easy. Your assumption here is that my wife's interest in visiting say Cape Breton is equal to her interest in visiting say Switzerland. I can assure you that is not the case BUT she does want to visit Cape Breton. The problem is in how to get yourself to choose the place of LESS interest.



Funny you should mention Cape Breton...we have an invitation for a month in Tuscany in May but decided to take our motor home to Cape Breton for the second time instead. Better food,nicer people,more to see & enjoy are our reasons.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I thought I was missing something in the thread through the long winded diatribes of OP. Essentially the thread is how does one change their personal preference to be more interested in something that they are less interested in. however it must only be answered from the OPs preference since it’s about him. Other opinions or preferences can not be added because OP said so but yet asked for input.:bi_polo:

If there is an award for the most narcissistic thread of not only the year but the decade, I would say this is it.

To answer OPs question, You don’t. Unless you are motivated to change your values or preferences, they will not change. There is no justification since in your mind you will always be right. How does one change, you must look within yourself to see if you truly desire a change. If it’s not worth the effort or value, then there will be no change. Alas, OP will only travel overseas.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> I thought I was missing something in the thread through the long winded diatribes of OP. Essentially the thread is how does one change their personal preference to be more interested in something that they are less interested in. however it must only be answered from the OPs preference since it’s about him. Other opinions or preferences can not be added because OP said so but yet asked for input.:bi_polo:
> 
> If there is an award for the most narcissistic thread of not only the year but the decade, I would say this is it.
> 
> To answer OPs question, You don’t. Unless you are motivated to change your values or preferences, they will not change. There is no justification since in your mind you will always be right. How does one change, you must look within yourself to see if you truly desire a change. If it’s not worth the effort or value, then there will be no change. Alas, OP will only travel overseas.


Very true. Unfortunately we have all wasted our time commenting here, as the OP’s mind was already made up. Now where is that Ignore button?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> Funny you should mention Cape Breton...we have an invitation for a month in Tuscany in May but decided to take our motor home to Cape Breton for the second time instead. Better food,nicer people,more to see & enjoy are our reasons.


Have you ever been to Tuscany Eder? I ask in order to understand if you have any basis from which to say, 'better food, nicer people, more to see &enjoy.'


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> Very true. Unfortunately we have all wasted our time commenting here, as the OP’s mind was already made up. Now where is that Ignore button?


No heyjude, my mind was not and is still not, made up. I asked a genuine question in the hope that perhaps someone here had struggled with a similar issue of never being likely to get around to visiting less interesting places. Alas, it seems that isn't the case. Everyone seems to think it's simple, you just go to the places of most interest and ignore the places of less interest. That's fine I suppose if you are content to never visit the places of less interest and so in fact, treat them as places of no interest.

I'm now wondering if all those responding have not been to all of the places that really interest them and that thinking about places of less interest simply isn't on their radar at all. My issue is that there are NO places that I can think of that interest me GREATLY that I have not been to already. Many of them still interest me greatly but having been to all of them at least once, my thoughts have turned to places of less interest that I haven't been to or that my wife hasn't been to. 

When you think of places you have visited, do you not find some of which you can say, 'I will never get tired of visiting that place' and others you can say, 'been there, done that, no need to go there again'? What I am saying is there is a third category, 'haven't been there but they look less interesting than the places I have been and will never get tired of re-visiting.' So then the choice becomes a re-visit to a place you continue to like to visit or go somewhere you haven't been but that looks less interesting. 

Actually, this exercise has given me one thought of a way to get myself to visit places of less interest and that is a road trip. If you go on a road trip, it is often quite easy to stop at places of 'some' interest along the way to a place of 'greater' interest. But that of course will only work if you go on a road trip. Kinda hard to envision stopping in Cape Breton for a few days enroute to France or Switzerland. 

It seems the consensus here is that we should only expect to ever visit the places of greatest interest and places of less interest will just never make the cut. Somehow that seems like a loss to me.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> It seems the consensus here is that we should only expect to ever visit the places of greatest interest and places of less interest will just never make the cut. Somehow that seems like a loss to me.


I think that concensus is based on *your* vacation criteria, not other peoples. Your "value" and "interests" seem to limit you from certain vacations and that's totally up to you. 

I plan to do a road trip to Canada's east coast some year soon even though I really like going to the west coast. So when my interest, time, budget etc allow me to go, I'll do the east coast road trip. I also want to run the dempster hwy to the arctic ocean one year, possibly on my motorcycle, same deal. These are just a few trips "I'd like to do" so when the time is right I'll likely do them but won't loose any sleep over it if I don't. Simple huh?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Travel is so much easier once you realize that most destinations are simply places where other people live. Nicer weather and nicer scenery at times but in most cases it's not much of a big deal and not worth a big premium.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> ... How do you justify spending vacation money on travel in Canada vs. overseas?


I don't justify it ... I decide whether it fits that's years budget, weather, amount of vacation etc.

If I waited until the spot being considered was "the best value" - there are lots of places I would never visit.
Nothing wrong with deciding the value is better elsewhere but where one has been to the value spot often, it limits what is new.


Cheers


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We travel with a very open schedule. If we like a spot we stay longer. This fall we were six weeks in Europe. The only firm plan was flying to Athens, then northern Greece for a few days, and then a ferry to Corfu. We has a rough plan that was subject to change. If we are near a port we keep our eyes open for last minute cruise offers.

The only other definite was a pre booked flight home from London. Surprise...we ended up in Cyprus for our final two weeks. It could just as easily been Israel or Morocco since we had been looking at the travel connections for both. 

When we drove across Canada we enjoyed Quebec City so much that we spent longer than we planed. Same with PEI.

The winter before we were in the Philippines. Did not like it very much so we changed our plans and went back to Thailand. Changed our flight home, paid the change fee and went on our way. We usually only do a few days in advance unless we need to firm up some air fares.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Travel is so much easier once you realize that most destinations are simply places where other people live. Nicer weather and nicer scenery at times but in most cases it's not much of a big deal and not worth a big premium.


Yes. Novelty Seeking.

If one is obsessively concerned with traveling to only to the "best", most exotic destinations, and eschews locals spots as "bad value", it is taking the first step to realizing that *all* temporary travel is pointless luxury consumption and cultural vanity. Not something to be delusionally thought of as life enriching, or an event in which greater meaning or understanding of the world is obtained.

The last 10 years has seen an explosion of growth in the travel industry, with Baby Boomers being not-too-old-yet with empty nests and large bank accounts, and (some) Millennials with disposable income and no responsibilities. 10 years from now that will be different. I think we're at "Peak Travel".

Anybody watched The Crown latest season? Prince Phillip deals (fictionally) with this very subject... He becomes obsessed with the Apollo 11 astronauts and their amazing journey. Denigrating the Royal lifestyle around him as meaningless, taking self destructive risks to seek novelty by trying to fly his airplane to the moon, lashing out at the deep thinkers around him (priests) for being worthless, actionless men. 

In the end he meets the Apollo 11 astronauts, and they turn out to be regular joe airforce type guys with no wisdom of any kind to impart from their exotic vacation. Prince Phillip then goes on to reconnect with God, and establishes/supports St. George's House, an organization for various deep thinkers to study the meaning of life and other serious topics.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

peterk said:


> Yes. Novelty Seeking.
> 
> If one is obsessively concerned with traveling to only to the "best", most exotic destinations, and eschews locals spots as "bad value", it is taking the first step to realizing that *all* temporary travel is pointless luxury consumption and cultural vanity. Not something to be delusionally thought of as life enriching, or an event in which greater meaning or understanding of the world is obtained.


We go away to escape the cold for a while and don't care about exotic or deep meaning. We want clean, safe, and warm. A 500 - 600 sq ft place with a kitchen is all we need and using those parameters we can find places for very reasonable rates.


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