# Is frugality only important for poor people?



## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Seems to me like after you achieve a certain income level there's no point in being frugal.

If you're making 20k a year then clipping coupons can make a big difference. Savings 50 cents here and there can add up to a few hundred dollars a year which will be noticeable. But if you make 100k a year, is having a few hundred dollars less going to make any noticeable difference in your life?

Personally I make an attempt to be frugal (cheap even) because I don't make that much money and I have a fairly low net worth. But at my current savings rate, by 50 I should be a millionaire and have passive income of over 100k/yr, and at that point I doubt I'll be frugal.

Of course by not being frugal what I mean is things like not clipping coupons, not waiting for a sale to buy something, not avoiding eating out, etc. I'm not talking about things like buying a new Mercedes every year or a yacht.

At what income and/or net worth do you no longer need to worry about being frugal? Or should you clip coupons even if you're a billionaire?

What are people's thoughts on this?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start with 10 million dollars...

While it's true that you may not clip coupons when you are rich, it doesn't mean you aren't frugal. Some things become a tradeoff between time/money/lifestyle. The time it takes to find a coupon, clip it and buy the product may not be worth it once you have a higher income. It was once calculated that it Bill Gates made more money in the time it would take to pick up a hundred dollar bill than the bill itself. In that case though, he made an extra $100 in that time...as long as he wan't putting together a 100 billion dollar deal at the time, then he'd probably pick it up...if picking it up delayed him from submitting a time sensitive document for the deal, he'd probably ignore it.

I think the level of frugallity will change, just like the level of spending changes in your life. When you were a kid, $5 was a lot of money, as a teen a $100, as an Adult you begin to wish you had $5 again...

What you haggle over are larger ticket items, mortgage points, closing prices, etc. In the time some people use to save 50 cents, you save 1000's. You're still frugal, just at a different level.

"I've been rich and I've been poor. Believe me, honey, rich is better." - Sophie Tucker


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

The funny thing is that it's possible to survive on $30K/year, yet people are struggling on $100K+/year. 
Frugality is important to anyone who is spending more than they are earning.

Be it the family earning $40K/year and spending $45K, or the family earning $150K/year and spending $155K, both need to be more frugal. 

Guy earning $200K/year doesn't need to be as frugal as the guy making $30K/year, but it's still easy to run through $200K/year. There's always going to be someone earning more, so until you can lose the "keeping up with the Jones" mentalily, your finances will suffer.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

To me being frugal means getting the maximum enjoyment out of available dollars. So being frugal should never stop regardless of income but how one practices frugality should change as income increases. Clipping coupons only makes sense if the value it provides in enhanced future spending ability and enjoyment is worthy of the time sacrificed. This would not be the case for a billionaire.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Waste is waste, there's no point in wasting money regardless of how wealthy you are. To me, frugality is about avoiding waste; it's about using your money wisely.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I think most of us forget why we were frugal. It is because the money saved up can in turn earn money as investments. 

To start off with nothing, you have to exchange your time for money so that the money can roll into more money.
As an example. Once your money rolls more than $10 per hour without you doing anything, it is an easy decision (and more efficient) to overlook/ignore anything where the difference is around $10. 

So when you get richer, you exchange money for time.

If you look at money at time as two different assets. Time is more valuable as you age as it becomes rarer while money is more valuable at the beginning due to compounding.


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

As the only wage earner in our family (2 adults, 2 kids), frugality has more to do with putting more away to derive an income from investments. I see it as a way to increase investment income in my wife's investment acount to maximize to get as much as possible before that income is taxed (10,300 I think). 

What's more evident however, is the fact that both of our parents were, like many in southern Ontario - GTA area in the 1960's, quite frugal to begin with. Frugaility is perhaps something that one inherits. But there is a difference between being frugal and being cheap. I make about 88K per year, bought a small place in an expensive city (Vancouver), and hope to move to a larger house/property within 4-5 years. I think I'll always be frugal - I see it as a kind of competition, to get the best value for the lowest cost.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

If I may make some generalizations:
Most poor people are frugal because they have to be;
Some rich people are frugal because they want to become richer, or at least not become poorer;
Of those in between, the smart ones are frugal because they don't want to become like their debt-ridden cohorts.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

OhGreatGuru said:


> If I may make some generalizations:
> Most poor people are frugal because they have to be;
> Some rich people are frugal because they want to become richer, or at least not become poorer;
> Of those in between, the smart ones are frugal because they don't want to become like their debt-ridden cohorts.


Yup- I like to think I am the one in between. I internally struggle regularily to avoid keeping up with the Joneses. I am winning mind you but I never take my eye off the ball. I can confidantly say that I am the only one of my friends with a mortgage that will be paid off before I am 40 and no credit card debt. But hey- they go on alot of fancy vacations- so they must be happy. 

I admit I have my vices (expensive cheese as one) but they are hardly budget busting. Otherwise I think I am frugal because I mostly want to be.


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## PMREdmonton (Apr 6, 2009)

I certainly don't clip coupons now. But then again, I do use the odd Groupon which is kind of like a digital coupon. Maybe I use coupons more now then. :stupid:

I think that I still have some frugality about me in that I don't like to buy things we don't need, I don't like to buy things that are needlessly expensive for what they do (God, I hate my wife's iphone plan but that was her money and her decision) and I still try to buy things on sale or wait for them to go on sale. I have also realized there are lots of things that I have bought that I could just as easily have rented instead and I try to do that more now with books and movies.

I will say that I don't worry much about say losing $100 on something or if something break that costs a couple of hundred dollars - that is probably the most enjoyable thing about having some savings now and a higher salary. I still worry some about my investments but not the same way when I just graduated from residency and have $195K on my $200K LOC and no ability to get anymore credit at all - maxed out basically. It was tight for a month but then the cashflow started to gush and breathing space was achieved.


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## arrow1963 (Nov 22, 2011)

I think this is a funny thread, because it's the exact same conversation as you might hear 'normal' people talking about, but framed in a way that you would only see on a website like this.

The relatively rare question 'At what income and/or net worth do you no longer need to worry about being frugal?' is functionally the same as the more common 'how much money would you need to have to make you happy?'.

At all income and wealth levels there is a trade-off between current lifestyle expenditures and financial security (the probability of being able to maintain a specified level of lifestyle expenditures into the future). When framed as the 'happiness' question, a simple summary of the research evidence is that the typical person thinks that their 'happy' level of income is just around the corner, if they were able to make 50% more they would be able to pay for all the little things that are out of reach and which are the only things that they seriously consider buying which they cannot.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Reminds me of the line from Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps:

Jacob: What’s your number? 
Bretton Woods: Excuse me? 
Jacob: The amount of money you would need to be able to walk away from it all and just live happily ever after. See, I find that everyone has a number and it’s usually an exact number, so what is yours? 
Bretton: More. 

Loved this exchange. 

The reality is, we're a greedy species, and we almost all want more. 
Unions, politicians, CEOs, corporate bankers, teachers, airline pilots, postal workers, lawyers, doctors, investment bankers... we all want more.


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## Dave (Apr 5, 2009)

+1 to Causalien

My thoughts exactly. 

If you are interested in behavioural finance, I suggest Ramit Sethi's website. He once asked his readers: ''How did your lifestyle change once you crossed the 100K treshold ?'' Most people said not much. They just did not sweat the small stuff anymore. I agree 100%. 

The book ''Your Money or Your Life'' has an interesting approach. When I read it a couple of years ago, I figured out what my real wage was (including all the extra costs and time lost involved in earning my wage such as work clothes, transport, etc). Such an exercice is truly eye opening and can give you a good idea if being frugal in certain situations makes sense or not. 

Dave


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Interesting reading here, it's quite interesting to hear everyone's perspective on this.

I can't speak to the point of being frugal or not after achieving a certain income, as mine is no doubt lower than most of the people on this forum, but I guess I can say I could fall into the frugal category with a gross income now of less than 16 or 17K per year, and yet I am still putting away 5K every year, yet I feel I live quite comfortably.

I have never clipped coupons, but I walk to the local grocery store and plan out my meal based on what's on sale. Right now I'm enjoying a thick slab of steak washed down with some nice cloudy home-made wine :biggrin: If I find say a grocery cart filled with 500g blocks of cheese marked down to 2 bucks apiece I take the whole cart and throw them all in the freezer. Likewise clothing etc, I buy in bulk.

My thoughts
I see the Joneses rushing to and fro every day, why the h*ll would I wanna keep up to them, I'm quite content to live in squallor and hang out with my dogs and put my feet up with a good book and enjoy nature etc. but hey, to each his own


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

I think Causalien said it perfectly. I don't think that sense of frugality really changes, but as you get older and attain more wealth, you begin to place different values on time and money, which can change certain financial decisions. An example: I eat out a lot more now instead of cooking at home because my time is more valuable than it was 10 years ago. It's not that I've become less frugal, just that in my current work situation, it is sometimes more cost-effective to spend the extra hour in the office and buy a meal on the way home than a decade ago.

I think the title of the thread is a bit strange as well. What are we defining as poor people? Those with low net worths? Or those who don't earn much income? As Dmoney already pointed out, you can make a ton of money and still be pretty poor if you're not really tracking your finances.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Causalien said:


> If you look at money at time as two different assets. Time is more valuable as you age as it becomes rarer while money is more valuable at the beginning due to compounding.


Jesus Christ, Causalien..

My cortisol levels just shot through the roof and are now surging through every bloodstream in my body.
That is some dark and depressing ******ake mushrooms.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> At what income and/or net worth do you no longer need to worry about being frugal?
> 
> What are people's thoughts on this?


The point at which you can stop being frugal is when you've achieved everything you want to achieve and have a stable income source that allows you to spend more frivolously.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

financialnoob said:


> I don't think that sense of frugality really changes, but as you get older and attain more wealth, you begin to place different values on time and money, which can change certain financial decisions. An example: I eat out a lot more now instead of cooking at home because my time is more valuable than it was 10 years ago..


Interesting....we're 'retired', (me since I was 46...I'm now pushing 70...my lady's 10 years younger), and hardly ever eat out. Our time is too valuable to waste driving to a restaurant, waiting to be served, and eating a meal that's probably not as good as the ones we prepare ourselves, and a helluva lot cheaper. 

WRT 'frugality'....there's not much we 'want', (certainly no electronic gimmicks/gadgets and the like), therefore we live cheaply and don't feel that we're 'missing out' on anything......we also don't hesitate to buy the few things that we DO want.

Minimalists...I guess.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Frugality means different things for different people. If we could agree on what is frugality this would be an easy question to answer. From my perspective the question isn't frugality but rather are you living within your means. What doesn't make sense to me are people who live below their means after retirement. They save right up untill the final sad moment. It makes good sense to live below your means to save for retirement. Perhaps in retirement you might live a little below your means just to be sure you don't run out. But the people who save like crazy( my inlaws) because they think it is morally right, baffle me. You can only do 2 things with money: spend it or give it away. The rest is only timing. 
In my case no one would ever call me frugal but we live within our means-very well thank you. So whether we spend $10k or $1million a year so what?


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

And then you have people like me who are so desperate to quit the rat race and retire in my early 40's that we live on less than 30k a year despite the fact that my wife and I gross about 170k annually. The real miracle is that my wife is fine the whole plan - even the part which requires her to work 5 -7 years longer than myself. If we decided to "live up to" our income level for just a few years, my early retirement plans would take a serious hit - so our frugal ways will continue. To be honest, on 30k we don't really sacrifice much at all.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> If we decided to "live up to" our income level for just a few years, my early retirement plans would take a serious hit - so our frugal ways will continue. To be honest, on 30k we don't really sacrifice much at all.


Just to add to this, being frugal is sort of like going on a diet.

At first, you really miss the fast food, chips, donuts, etc.

But after a while, it just becomes more natural to eat less food and eat healthier. You don't miss the garbage as much. It becomes a lifestyle.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Nemo2 said:


> Interesting....we're 'retired', (me since I was 46...I'm now pushing 70...my lady's 10 years younger), and hardly ever eat out. Our time is too valuable to waste driving to a restaurant, waiting to be served, and eating a meal that's probably not as good as the ones we prepare ourselves, and a helluva lot cheaper.
> 
> WRT 'frugality'....there's not much we 'want', (certainly no electronic gimmicks/gadgets and the like), therefore we live cheaply and don't feel that we're 'missing out' on anything......we also don't hesitate to buy the few things that we DO want.
> 
> Minimalists...I guess.


Different strokes for different folks 

For our current lifestyle, it is actually a time-saver and allows me to put in some extra hours at work, which more than compensate for the cost of eating out more. But 5 years ago, that definitely wasn't the case and we ate at home way more. Which is why I really thought Causalien's earlier point was so good, because there really isn't a right or wrong here, just figuring out what works best for different people based on their circumstances. 

We eat out a lot more than before because it saves us time and money right now. 5 years ago, under different circumstances, we ate at home more because it saved us time and money. Same people, same scenario, but different circumstances make us put different values on the same variables.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Square Root is uncovering the problem that occurs in retirement with people that have built their own wealth from being extremely frugal with money. They have trained themselves their whole live to save and live well below their means. They have been finacially successful beyond an average person yet live in retirement, continue saving and hording, then they die with all that money. It gets passed down to someone who doesn't know how to handle that much money or build wealth, and bam it's gone.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I like being frugal- depending on the situation. I make a low income, but spend my money where I get personal value- nice camera and guitar gear, extended travels in obscure places, etc. But when it comes to daily expenses, I live very cheaply, even to the point of being a bit of a tightwad. The reason is that I was very frivolous with my money in my 20's and 30's, so now it pains me to fritter it away (unless there's a sale on fritters...!!). I shop at Value Village, don't drink, rarely go out (prefer creative/intellectual pursuits in my leisure time) and buy everything off craigslist or on sale with my cashback credit card. I've learned that wealth is built incrementally, and that I've regretted wasting money that I could use when times get a bit tough. Having said all that, I could see myself spending pretty freely were I wealthy. My wife is much the same.

PS- I use most of my excess income on investments.


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## GreenAvenue (Dec 28, 2011)

brad said:


> Waste is waste, there's no point in wasting money regardless of how wealthy you are. To me, frugality is about avoiding waste; it's about using your money wisely.


I couldn't agree more.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Nemo2 said:


> Interesting....we're 'retired', (me since I was 46...I'm now pushing 70...my lady's 10 years younger), and hardly ever eat out. Our time is too valuable to waste driving to a restaurant, waiting to be served, and eating a meal that's probably not as good as the ones we prepare ourselves, and a helluva lot cheaper.


That happened to me a while ago. We only go out when we feel like having a new flavour or food we can't easily make ourselves. 
I'm horrible at pub fare, or higher end fancy meals. So when we go out for the 2 of us, it's either wings, or $150+ for dinner.

Not exactly frugal, but we're not dropping $50 for a cheap pasta dinner we could have done better at home.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Square Root said:


> Frugality means different things for different people. If we could agree on what is frugality this would be an easy question to answer.


Indeed. There's no one-size-fits-all; from our perspective we're not (overly) consciously 'frugal'.......we don't feel we're 'missing out' on anything, ergo we're not internally bombarded by concerns about what we don't have.

Moneywise, we live below our means, which imparts the 'illusion' (an 'illusion' we're well aware of), of security......our 'nut' remains untouched, and good luck to the friends and relatives who may someday inherit all/some.............that said, we went to Botswana 2 years ago, and Zambia and/or Sumatra are on our 'wish list', (Beemers & Mercs aren't).


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

financialnoob said:


> I eat out a lot more now instead of cooking at home because my time is more valuable than it was 10 years ago. It's not that I've become less frugal, just that in my current work situation, it is sometimes more cost-effective to spend the extra hour in the office and buy a meal on the way home than a decade ago.


Maybe it is "cost effective" to work an extra hour to bring home dinner every night, but what about the cost effectiveness of the healthy time forgone by eating take out everyday? A home cooked meal and a restaurant meal are hardly comparable. I know I would have trouble eating take out all week. Most places just jam pack everything that we eat with salt and preservatives.

Maybe if you go really high end, you can get something that compares quality wise with a home cooked meal I guess. 



Square Root said:


> Frugality means different things for different people. If we could agree on what is frugality this would be an easy question to answer. From my perspective the question isn't frugality but rather are you living within your means. What doesn't make sense to me are people who live below their means after retirement. They save right up untill the final sad moment. It makes good sense to live below your means to save for retirement. Perhaps in retirement you might live a little below your means just to be sure you don't run out. But the people who save like crazy( my inlaws) because they think it is morally right, baffle me. You can only do 2 things with money: spend it or give it away. The rest is only timing.
> In my case no one would ever call me frugal but we live within our means-very well thank you. So whether we spend $10k or $1million a year so what?


Wikipedia defines frudality as: "Frugality is the quality of being frugal, sparing, thrifty, prudent or economical in the use of consumable resources such as food, time or money, and avoiding waste, lavishness or extravagance". Maybe a billionaire can live within his means by only spending 1M$ per year, but I have trouble seeing how this would not be considered lavish or extravagant. Living within his means? Yes. Frugal? No.


My personal take on frugality is this: Frugality is a tool that helps me achieve financial independence. I do not plan to stop using this tool when I reach financial independence since using it is a premise in my strategy. If I stop being frugal, then I need to go back to work to get a bunch more money to retire again.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

I think we can all agree that for a given expenditure level, everyone would want to get the "most" out of their spending. That is, each person would spend according to their tastes and personal utility function. Most of the debate around frugality centers on what people spend their money on, eg we don't go out much, or we drive old cars, or we never buy expensive clothes. These are matters of personal taste and quite frankly not worth debating in my view. Clearly our goal in life should be a balance between consumption (depending on personal goals and tastes) and a longer term desire for savings(to enable retirement) or to create a legacy. I see no virtue in frugality for it's own sake.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

financialnoob said:


> We eat out a lot more than before because it saves us time and money right now. 5 years ago, under different circumstances, we ate at home more because it saved us time and money. Same people, same scenario, but different circumstances make us put different values on the same variables.


DW and I love eating our own food on our own patio. So dining out tends to be "an experience", better environment with superior food (perhaps ethnic) or a social event with friends and acquaintances. Aside from travel expenses, it is our largest expense. Call it an indulgence. But we very seldom eat out which is much cheaper than dining out.

Yet our car is 7 years old and the second (snowbird) is 19 years old.  The Jones are way ahead. Good for them!


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Keith, I agree that it is stupid and pointless to try to "keep up with the Jones" but I also don't think it makes any sense to consciously under spend them either. I think the best approach is to ignore them, whoever the heck they are. Do what makes you happy. Maybe that's what you meant?


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## CashMoney101 (Mar 6, 2012)

I think frugality is important for all types of people. You know the interesting thing that I've learned over the years, is that the people who appear the most well off cause they're flashey are usually not that well off they just have a lease on a mercedes and $50k in credit card debt. The people I know who actually are well off, well those are the guys driving the old beat up vehicles and wearing clothes until they fall apart. I met this guy who's 20 years old and drives a brand new BMW works in the same building as me. I got to chatting with him and found out he makes $18/hour in the call centre, lives with his parents and pays $1000 a month in lease payments for that car. Oh I see. There is a lesson in there for sure.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes I see a concern with that example above, but for the frugally people that have amassed wealth and then die, you can't take it to the grave so what is the point? 
Does dieing broke make sense? Working less? etc


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Just taking a counterpoint to the previous statement, one could say that money is only unimportant as long as you don't have a need for it, so a little overkill can't hurt, and as long as it's unimportant, maybe just leave it to your favorite charity rather than ruining your heir's chance to learn on their own, just a thought.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

@Cashmoney. While I also know of people like that, especially in the US, I know many more who don't owe a cent, drive expensive cars, own expensive real estate, take expensive trips, give a lot to charity, and still don't spend above their means. So what should these people do? Volunteer to pay more tax perhaps? No I think not as that would be a real waste.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think it depends on your money blueprint/how you were raised(how your parents handled money-your early enviroment around $)I don't think frugality is a rich or poor trait(alot of wealthly people got wealthly being srewd in business)and clipping coupons for example is no different than them shopping prices in business deals ect.(you look for vaule no matter what the $ amt is)I also think it depends from where one starts,people who grew-up poor never forget what that is like and NEVER want to go back.I always think it depends on the skill-set a person has and there personality....I actually think introverts and intellects build wealth from frugality more than extroverts and people strong in sales skills as a example.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

@Donald- Perhaps but also it depends on how well you do financially in life and your personal tastes and utility function. Are these set in childhood or develop as one attains more wealth. I don't know. We can probably dredge up a lot of anecdotal evidence either way.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

@square root-I'm not sure either,i would think there is a threshold when being frugal might leave someone*in there personal dealings*(i don't think imo it would leave a business man thou in his dealings in a professional setting)I think being frugal is a skill-set and some just have "it" and others(rich or poor)don't,almost in the same sense some people are natural athletes(genes).I also think some frugal people almost view it as a game-It's like it stimulates there mind to search and excute ways of being frugal.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Guigz said:


> Maybe it is "cost effective" to work an extra hour to bring home dinner every night, but what about the cost effectiveness of the healthy time forgone by eating take out everyday? A home cooked meal and a restaurant meal are hardly comparable. I know I would have trouble eating take out all week. Most places just jam pack everything that we eat with salt and preservatives.
> 
> Maybe if you go really high end, you can get something that compares quality wise with a home cooked meal I guess.


I agree. We don't (and couldn't) eat out every night, but more than most because of our current work situations. Though I do think you can find some pretty decent choices out there. A Vietnamese bun is quite delicious and nutritious and cheap too at under $8 as an example, or freshly-made steamed/boiled dumplings in Chinatown for $10 for a variety of dishes. 

I certainly don't disagree that it's more frugal to eat at home most of the time, just that I'm learning more and more how time needs to be factored into the equation is all. 



kcowan said:


> DW and I love eating our own food on our own patio. So dining out tends to be "an experience", better environment with superior food (perhaps ethnic) or a social event with friends and acquaintances. Aside from travel expenses, it is our largest expense. Call it an indulgence. But we very seldom eat out which is much cheaper than dining out.
> 
> Yet our car is 7 years old and the second (snowbird) is 19 years old.  The Jones are way ahead. Good for them!


Dinner on the patio every night sounds amazing :encouragement:

The ethnic note is definitely an important one. I can make a decent plate of pasta for cheap, but to attempt a butter chicken wouldn't really save me much since I'd have to buy a ton of exotic spices/oils/sauces, and I doubt I'd make anything close to edible.

And now I'm really really craving Indian food and it's only 6:45 am...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Square Root said:


> Keith, I agree that it is stupid and pointless to try to "keep up with the Jones" but I also don't think it makes any sense to consciously under spend them either. I think the best approach is to ignore them, whoever the heck they are. Do what makes you happy. Maybe that's what you meant?


I don't ignore them. We often have them over for a BBQ. They might bring their expensive wine and specially brewed beer. I serve cheapo but good Chilean red when theirs runs out and standard brewery beer. It does not matter to me. I tell them how my AWD Escape handles like my BMW 3 series did (except for turning circle). When I talk about my portfolio (seldom), they make some vague comments about their investment advisor. One of them was paying $750/mo for cell phone plans for the 4 of them! I just said that I hoped they held Rogers shares!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

financialnoob said:


> And now I'm really really craving Indian food and it's only 6:45 am...


We do some Thai at home and Italian but go out for Indian and Greek. Also DW hates fish, so I tend to order that when out. BBQ ribs out but steak, pork, chicken in.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I've found Indian food to be some of the best value for the money. I've been to several different Indian all you can eat buffets in Toronto and it's usually around $10. The food is both tasty and healthy and not something I'd know how to make at home.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

It is all relative. Maybe a millionaire buys a 5-series instead of a 7-series. For them, that is frugal, saving $30k-$50k, for lower income earners, either purchase is outrageously expensive.

Keep in mind lifestyle creep/inflation is a serious risk for people. If you suddenly open the purse strings, you can get in trouble quick.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I think that frugality is more about choices. 

You can't have everything, but you can give up crap you don't care about to purchase stuff that you do care about. 

For instance I drive an old crappy car but my son has ballet class and music lessons and swimming lessons. We eat out lots. I work a lot. It isn't unusual for me to work 12-14 hour days 6-7 days per week. I'm not cooking when I get home and my hubby makes great chicken strips and Kraft Dinner if you get my drift. 

Even when you don't spend money today to save it, you're saving on unnecessary "crap" you don't need to be able to buy stuff you do need in the future. 

I practice the art of not wanting crap.:biggrin:


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Sampson said:


> It is all relative. Maybe a millionaire buys a 5-series instead of a 7-series.


When I was in my early 20s I spent a year working for a multi-millionaire in Westchester County, New York; his neighbours included the actor Frank Langella and Lila Acheson Wallace, the founder of Readers Digest. He drove a 15-year-old Volkswagen Beetle; it was his only car. But he had a part-time butler who served food and greeted visitors at the door.

As Berubeland says, it's about choices: what he drove wasn't important to him, so he didn't spend money there. He was a very busy guy and his wife had passed away some years earlier, so the butler was useful.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I think we should draw the distinction between frugal and cheap. Frugality should be something that ultimately enhances your life and that of your family in a measurable way.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Spidey said:


> Frugality should be something that ultimately enhances your life and that of your family in a measurable way.


Maybe, but if I'm a millionaire who likes my 15-year-old Volkswagen and sees no need to upgrade to something fancier, is that frugality or cheapness?

I think frugality can involve spending money on what matters to you and not wasting money on things that don't. 

As I said upthread for me it's all about avoiding waste. I can afford to buy a much nicer car than my rather beat-up 2005 Toyota Matrix, but it would be a waste because I don't drive much and all I want is reliable transportation and enough room for my gear. I can afford to buy a nice new suit but since I only wear a suit two or three times per year it would be a waste...therefore I still wear the suit I bought in 1992. It hasn't started to look threadbare yet, but when it does I'll get something that's well-made enough to last me the next 25 years. It doesn't have to be fancy. I can afford to buy a big TV but it would be a waste because we don't watch TV; instead we rent movies and watch them on my 15" laptop, which turns out to be perfectly adequate for our purposes (as long as we plug in external speakers: big sound compensates for small screen).


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

@brad: +1 We are almost clones.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

It is my intention to enter an ultra-frugal mode in the first few years of my early retirement - a grow/catch your own food (I might go hungry when the fishing is poor), walk/bike everywhere, type of lifestyle. Part of the decision is based on not wanting to draw down my nest egg in its early stages - but the idea of living on as little $ as possible (at least for a few years) very appealing to me. A test of character of sorts.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

brad said:


> Maybe, but if I'm a millionaire who likes my 15-year-old Volkswagen and sees no need to upgrade to something fancier, is that frugality or cheapness?


There isn't a clear answer to that question - it would depend on how this decision impacts you and your family's overall satisfaction. If you enjoy the car, perhaps like tinkering with mechanical stuff and wouldn't get much satisfaction from a newer vehicle then the decision would make sense. However, if you are constantly taking it into the shop (which may be impacting family activities, etc.), worry about a break-down on longer trips and would really be more comfortable in a newer model, then it would be silly to keep driving it when a newer vehicle would enhance the lives of yourself and your family and is well within the range of affordability.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Spidey - I agree totally. I think in this particular case, my millionaire employer was a widower in his early 70s, didn't drive very much, and loved his old Bug. So it made sense for him to keep it.

Whenever I think of cheap vs. frugal I think of an acquaintance of mine whose car would sometimes run out of gas while he was driving around shopping for the cheapest gas station. He almost certainly spent more in gas driving around in his search than he saved by getting the lowest price, plus there's the inconvenience and time hassle of running out of gas. That for me is the very definition of cheap.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

brad said:


> Whenever I think of cheap vs. frugal I think of an acquaintance of mine whose car would sometimes run out of gas while he was driving around shopping for the cheapest gas station. He almost certainly spent more in gas driving around in his search than he saved by getting the lowest price, plus there's the inconvenience and time hassle of running out of gas. *That for me is the very definition of cheap.*


In my opinion, that is the definition of stupid.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Ha! Exactly what I was going to say. each: (I have no idea why we have a "peach" smilie.)


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

This debate usually comes back to tastes and personal utility. Not really worth trying to convince others in these matters. The meaning of the word frugal is open to interpretation. We can all agree however that waste is to be avoided.
I just don't agree that frugality ( defined as restricted spending under one's means) is virtuous in it's own right.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Square Root said:


> I just don't agree that frugality ( defined as restricted spending under one's means) is virtuous in it's own right.


I don't know if we've been saying it's virtuous or even something to aspire to. It's kind of a personal ethic, like the hiker's ethic of "take only photographs, leave only footprints." If that appeals to you, you follow it; if it doesn't appeal, you don't. But I don't think frugality is only "important" for poor people. A wealthy person who wants to leave behind a legacy, or wants to donate a large portion of his or her income to charity, may find it very important to be frugal. That's one of my motivations for being frugal, although in truth I'm mainly frugal by accident--I'm just not interested in spending money for the sake of spending money, nor am I attracted by the things that many people with money to burn spend their money on. I want to keep my life simple and my home uncluttered, which translates to not spending nearly as much as I could. That doesn't make me virtuous or smart.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

I agree many people are frugal for many reasons. Those you list are valid. I would say though that giving money away is just another form of expenditure. In any event I think the decision to be frugal is one of taste or disposition. I do think the more important question is "living within your means" however big or small that may be. This of course is generally a simpler question for someone in the decumulation phase, such as I.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

There are so many 'human' variables here. I'm sure many people here enjoy getting more for their money.
, whether it be food, cars, or butlers. For me, an important variable is value. You could have the same amount of money, give it to two different people, and the amount of joy, material goods, or whatever they are buying will be different. The frugal person presumably gets 'more' for their money.

Another issue here is whether a person is a spender or saver. We've had this discussion in other threads and it seems this factor never changes in some regardless of personal income.


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## CashMoney101 (Mar 6, 2012)

I think the point is that, if you are in the habit of spending all your income, you will probably continue to do that even as your income rises and you won't end up really improving your situation as much through the added income. I found this to be true for myself in my 20s-- a raise or a big commission cheque was a reason to go buy stuff I didn't really need but wanted and hadn't had enough cash to buy before. Now that I view those events instead as opportunities to increase my savings and investments because I have trained myself to live within my means, a windfall is not just a short term one off event. It is leveraged for greater security and in fact increased in value by the time the money needs to be used. That is the rub-- if your whole plan for getting ahead is to constantly increase your income so you can increase your lifestyle, you are in fact on a treadmill and how ARE you going to get off of it? No matter how much money you make, it is beneficial to slow down and realize, you won't get ahead if all of this month's money is spent before the next paycheque comes. This is why I think frugality is important for everyone, it sets you up to really benefit from the increase in income that is sure to come as you age, get wiser, and advance in your career.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

@ cashmoney. What you describe is not so much a lack of frugality but a lack of saving towards financial independence or retirement. Living below your means during your working life is how you save for retirement. This probably involves frugality but not necessarily. Towards the end of my working life I made a very high salary, saved a lot of it but also spent a lot of money. I would not view myself during these years as frugal but I sure saved a lot. I realize I may not be representative. To be " frugal" during this time would not have made much sense in my view. Also, now that I am retired the important thing s living within my means. In general this may or may not require frugality. In my case it does not and I therefore see no virtue in frugality for its own sake. Maybe I should let this topic go though.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I think that what is considered frugal can vary depending upon your income. As buying your lunch at subway might be considered frugal to some, as they did not have fine dining. Yet for others, eating out in any form could be considered splurging with their money.

Also, I don't believe frugality is always about the money. In some ways, phsycologically it can be almost like a game.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I'm pretty frugal - no cell phone, driving 2003 vehicle, rarely eat out, most minimum cable and phone plane, etc. So I definitely can relate to the frugal people better than I can with the spenders. However, if your lifestyle and that of the people you care about does not improve at least somewhat with you wealth, then what is the point? Why not just stay poor?


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

Increased consumption does not necessarily equate to increased happiness. If you already have all that you need, why waste money on something you don't? 

I would much rather have the ability to call it quits than to be stuck on the hamster wheel of consumption. My wealthiness has no impact on my needs. I do not increase my lifestyle with increases in pay. Instead, I save an extra portion so that I may take control of my life earlier. 

Instead of buying stuff, I buy time.

I do not live like a pauper, I have everything that I need and some of what I want. 

If I was financially independent, I would likely adjust my lifestyle so that it matches my income (i.e., live within my means and possibly allow some inflation with rising income).


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Last few posts are insightful. I read: Don't waste money, spending money doesn't always increase happiness, as you get wealthier you might want to spend a little more. I certainly agree with these statements. My favourite comes from guigz: if you are financially independent maybe you should set your spending to your income. Bingo!! this has been my point all along. As a financially independant retiree that's what I do. i spend on things/experiences that I value the most up to my income. Quite a bit is spent on getting people to do things I don't like to do or don't know how to do. This effectively buys me time . The fact that my income is very high does not qualify me as frugal but I don't think I'm wasting money or being a spendthrift either. Each person will spend according to their tastes and utility function. Cheers.


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## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery



Dmoney said:


> The funny thing is that it's possible to survive on $30K/year, yet people are struggling on $100K+/year...


That resonates with me.

My spouse and I have excellent careers but use coupons and price matching to save 50% on our grocery bill (annualized). Saved money is a tool to fund early retirement.

EDIT - it costs $8 in ingredients to make 100 sushi rolls, at home. In a restaurant, that's a $100 meal for four people. "Frugal" can also be "fun." 

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/general-chat/193425-making-sushi-rolls-home-$8-84-new-tips-perfect-rolls.html


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

It is quite the opposite. Frugality is for the rich, not for the poor.

If you are poor it it is pointless to try and save money. Some unexpected expense always eats up anything you save. It is a much better plan to live as well as you can on what you have, and if you get an unexpected windfall, spend it fast before it gets eaten away in dribs and drabs with nothing to show for it.

This is so obvious to anyone who has been poor that it doesn't need to be explained .

On the other hand, if you are well off even to the point of owning your own home and having a decent job, you have something to lose and something to gain. Good money management pays dividends . Read The Millionaire Next Door for examples of people who live well but are careful with their money and will never be poor or without resources.

Carelessness can ruin even a multi millionaire. There are many examples of people who have earned or inherited a fortune sufficient for them to live in luxury all their lives who blew it.

For example, look up the story of Mike Tyson . He went from the housing projects, to living in a mansion, to sleeping in homeless shelters and taking handouts from street people.He made millions the hard way but blew it using the money philosophy he learned in the slums.

Mike Tyson: spending fool

http://www.earlytorise.com/the-sad-story-of-mike-tyson-a-spending-fool/


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Another example of the frugal rich vs the spendthrift poor. Notice the shoppers in the grocery store, the obviously well off carefully weighing and examining everything in the produce section looking for the best, or least carcinogenic food. Then notice the obviously poor with their carts loaded with colorful packages of junk food guaranteed to have the least food value at the highest cost.

Or look at the post above re: making the best and tastiest Japanese food at the lowest cost. Does that strike you as the way a poor person thinks or behaves? Would you ever mistake CjOttawa for a poor person? Never in a million years would a poor person think that way, or make sushi that way.

Now that I have introduced this idea you will see examples every day. Remember, frugality is for the well off not for the poor.


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## JustAGuy (Feb 5, 2012)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> This is so obvious to anyone who has been poor that it doesn't need to be explained .


As someone that was able to put themselves through college while being poor, I disagree. Being frugal and using what little you have as an investment to improve your situation is always a good idea.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I also disagree. Frugality is key when you're poor. When in university I kept a budget book, and I found it a couple of years ago. I was amazed to see I only spent ~$350/mo on everything (excluding rent, which was another $400). Well, and obviously excluding tuition/books. This allowed me to come out of university without any debt, by working full time every summer and living off the proceeds throughout the school year.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

if you doing well I don't see why you shouldn't reward yourself and get something nice/expensive... sure you can save all your life and die with a ton of money, i rather enjoy life and die with not much money left... obviously there must be a balance


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

what you see as a waist for others it's not at all... sure it's not the best decision to get 1k/month car when you're 20, but how many times are you going to be 20 ? he (like me) might love cars, and that's one of the best feelings rolling in a brand new bmw especially when you're 20 (I did same thing)... who knows that car might encourage him to do well in life so he can get better car later... I hate people who always judge others, "oh he's in brand new bmw his credit cards probably maxed out and he's living on a credit, bla, bla, and I'm such an amazing guy rolling in 100 year old toyota corola where I don't pay anything monthly and rather invest then buy that pos bla bla"..



CashMoney101 said:


> I think frugality is important for all types of people. You know the interesting thing that I've learned over the years, is that the people who appear the most well off cause they're flashey are usually not that well off they just have a lease on a mercedes and $50k in credit card debt. The people I know who actually are well off, well those are the guys driving the old beat up vehicles and wearing clothes until they fall apart. I met this guy who's 20 years old and drives a brand new BMW works in the same building as me. I got to chatting with him and found out he makes $18/hour in the call centre, lives with his parents and pays $1000 a month in lease payments for that car. Oh I see. There is a lesson in there for sure.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

CJOttawa said:


> 1. it costs $8 in ingredients to make 100 sushi rolls, at home.
> 2. "Frugal" can also be "fun."


1. How about vegetarian spring-rolls? 
2. Not only fun, but educational as well!

Frugality is for all IMHO [except those who don't have enough to save obviously, and there are many such cases].

At the end of the day, no matter which adjective one uses [cheap, frugal, penny-pinching, stingy, thrifty, etc.], it's all about knowing how to manage one's money.

I get what I like & want, but only because I can! However, for me, it's more about being an informed consumer [which was not always the case], and about not overpaying. No different from buying stocks.

I'm frugal with not only my money, but my time as well, ie: I don't like to waste either & want more of both to enjoy & do important/fun things with, like meeting a friend in person instead of on FB/MSN; donating my time & money to worthwhile causes/foundations, etc.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

JustAGuy said:


> As someone that was able to put themselves through college while being poor, I disagree. Being frugal and using what little you have as an investment to improve your situation is always a good idea.


You were never poor. You may not have had much money but you did not have the outlook of the poor person. You knew you were going to be well off someday and you lived accordingly.

I never considered myself poor even when I had little or no money. I knew if I did the right things and stuck to it I would get the money eventually. To a poor person in a dead end job with no hope of getting ahead, things look different. It could be that is what keeps them poor, I won't argue about that.

The points is, being careful and getting value for money can be a rewarding pastime or a horrible drudgery depending on your frame of reference. Frugality in the sense we are talking about is much more a hobby of the well off than of the poor. If you lived among the poor you know what I mean.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ! Great how-to for sushi. There is a "recipes to trade by" thread somewhere on this forum, may I suggest you post it in there? I must try this... but I think I would be the only one adventurous enough to eat it at my house. Any thoughts on how long this would keep in a fridge? It's not really something you could freeze, eh.

/end off-topic


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Take care of the nickels and the dollars will take care of themselves.

Not certain if we are frugal, but we are careful. Value is important to us.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Being able to manage you money is the key point. For most this will involve frugality but not for all. Of course we could simply define frugality as living within your means. Then we could all agree. As I have posted previously, buying nice things is not morally wrong if you can afford it.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> You were never poor. You may not have had much money but you did not have the outlook of the poor person. You knew you were going to be well off someday and you lived accordingly.
> 
> I never considered myself poor even when I had little or no money. I knew if I did the right things and stuck to it I would get the money eventually. To a poor person in a dead end job with no hope of getting ahead, things look different. It could be that is what keeps them poor, I won't argue about that.
> 
> The points is, being careful and getting value for money can be a rewarding pastime or a horrible drudgery depending on your frame of reference. Frugality in the sense we are talking about is much more a hobby of the well off than of the poor. If you lived among the poor you know what I mean.


With respect, I don't think you have ever been truly low-income or poor or I don't think you would say that frugality isn't important for the poor. I know during college, I lived on an incredibly low income - bakery and fruit purchases were from the stale dated stand, protein was often chicken backs and necks, made apple sauce instead of jam from apples I picked for free, etc. Frugality may be a hobby for the well-off but it is a necessity for the poor.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Agree^. People who are poor and want to ever attempt to move into a better circumstance in life MUST be frugal. Those who are better off can afford to be less frugal, but if they are not careful, they will be in debt. Any one on debt must be frugal too.

I can say that when my spouse and I just started to make really good money, we were not frugal by any means, yet we still lived within our means, managed to save a bit, and stay out of debt. Now, we are much more frugal. I now think about value for my money and time, and how my money is spent, yet I am in abetter financial position than even before. I think it's being more frugal that has allowed this.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm more frugal as I have more money. It is odd to me. I was just thinking about this over the past week. Right now I am making pickles. Pickles! (Pickled eggplant, actually; with baby eggplants from the stale-dated corner of the local Lebanese grocery store. Using a recipe from a library book.) This is not ever going to change for me.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I agree with rusty.The truly poor(which is what class the op is ref 2)And this is key:are surrounded by uneducated,unmotivated,unsophisticated people with SMALL dreams/minds and no ambition.That is cancer.I highly doubt anybody here was subjected to that.No teachers,no morals,no role models,no father figures,no one guiding/teaching ect.

This in turn makes life:Scary,stressful,embarrassing,demoralizing,and difficult(every single day)So any money the poor recieve is spent escaping Pain!There is a difference between a ''starving student" and the "truly" poor-frugality,never in a poor persons make-up-Survival and escaping pain.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Are we mixing up with 'truly poor' in terms of definitions with a mindset riddle with many assumptions vs 'poor' being someone who doesn't have money.

I always looked at being poor as someone who doesn't have money as my definition.

Sure those who don't know better, have No teachers,no morals,no role models,no father figures,no one guiding/teaching ect.etc will mostly likely be poor. This is a bigger issue than what I think the OP was asking.

BTW. Should they be frugal too, absolutely, do they have the desire or the know how, maybe now. That's a different question altogether. 

I interpretted the question to be does someone who doesn't have money need to be more frugal than some one who does.

Answer - Yes, the need is there, because they have less to work with

Q2. Does a person with a lot more money still need to be frugal.

Answer - No, the need isnt there as much, but they still need to live within their means

Q3. Can a person with a lot more money be frugal.
Answer - Sure, all people should be frugal, be the need is lessened as you have more. 

This lead to generally, as you have more, it's partially because of what got you there, for many frugality and smart spending. So why change it?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> I'm more frugal as I have more money. It is odd to me. I was just thinking about this over the past week. Right now I am making pickles. Pickles! (Pickled eggplant, actually; with baby eggplants from the stale-dated corner of the local Lebanese grocery store. Using a recipe from a library book.) This is not ever going to change for me.


This should NEVER change. I am better your pickles are so much better than the store bought, and I don't even think I've seen pickled eggplant. 


I still clip coupons, not as much though, shop on sale, and I don't see that ever changing for me. Make my own coffees too, because spending the money on coffee at a store.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I just scored a satellite system off Craigslist. Dish $100, PVR $400, HD receiver $100, total $600 plus tax for $200. I just can't help myself...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Pa,i was ''looking" @ it in the same light as rusty.Some people who "feel" poor ie:quebec students(or educated 29 yr old's writing open letters to the globe)and crying.To the truly poor(kid's that grew up in projects,without a father ect ect)Trust me ''some" of those students HAVE no idea.Maybe i was looking @ it from a class prospective.I don't know what the op meant by "poor"?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Don.- I can totally see both views. I agree with rustys view view in terms of mindset. The thing is, I know wealthy people that have a 'poor' mindset. They are not frugal either. I also know 'poor' people, those with out a lot of money whom have a very different mindset and are frugal by necessity.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

The way I interpret frugality, is that one has other alternatives & options, however, when there are no other choices available, how can one be frugal? 

For example, being on a budget because of necessity & even desperation, is different from being on a budget [being frugal] to live simply/not to overspend/to save, or for whatever other [conscious] reason. 

People who have to count loonies/twonies/pennies [literally], can't really be frugal IMHO, rather, they are poor. If someone only has $40/week for food, but manages to spend just $37, that is not exactly what I would call being frugal.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

There was an interview with people lined up for the food bank and they were asked:
Do you have a TV or 2?
Do you have cable?
Do you have a cell phone?
In almost every case, the answer was YES.

So then he asked why they were in the line and they said: "Because we can get help for food but not these other items."

So are the poor really frugal, or, like the rest of us, they ration their $ for maximum benefit?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Very interesting views on the poor. I guess I have known people who only have $40 to spend, and are literally counting their pennies and dollars, but yet still are not spending their money in the most effiecient manner. 

My view are of course subjective and anedotal of course. I was volunteering in a community kitchen that was to teach people how to cook in a cost effective manner (all meals needed to be under $1.25/portion on average, over 16 meals). The group was expected to learn how to shop flyers and sales, bring in recipes for items that would be on sale, and then prepare and cook meals once a month. I did it because I thought it was interesting from a social perspective (my extrovertiveness), and wanted to see what I could learn from others in terms of being frugal. 

What I found was that I was much more frugal than almost all of the people there, even though I was one of the few that was there not because I had too. Many of these people were considered below the proverty line, and yet, when chatting with them, I was amazed at their lack of frugality, even though they didn't have money to buy things. There were cell phones, much nicer ones than I had, cute little designer purses, etc. I couldn't figure out how in the world they were doing it. Some of them would get money from friends, family, govt assistance, and instead of being frugal with it, would blow it on things, and some were really severely in debt. There were some who were really trying to be responsible and learn things and keep out of debt. That's why I think that even amoung the poor, many still make choices to be not frugal when they can't afford to do so.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My husband won't get a oil change unless he has a $5 off mr. lube coupon
I make my own pickles , tomato sauce ,grilled peppers and jams every year .
We like to make gifts for our friends ,I have hand stitched xmas ornaments for every friend ,family and pet we know.
We cook in bulk and always have extra prepared meals in freezer for the nights we do not like to cook.
When my husband worked full time we spent on average $200+ a week on take out , the deal we had when he retired was he had to do more cooking to save that $200+ a week restaurant money. 
We spend about 18% of our income on expenses so we do not have to be frugal and plenty of times we are not but if i see a coupon on an item we will purchase anyway I keep the coupons.
Frugal to me is being smart with your money ,cheap is when you put the value of money in front of anything else.


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## venicemayer (May 15, 2012)

Frugality at some points has so many benefits and it's should be one thing that all of us must inherent. As we know, these days that we all face so many crisis in life it is very practical to save money and narrow down our expenses in order for us to live productively without some loans on the side. We should not live beyond what we are earning because if we do we ended up losing everything.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

fraser said:


> Take care of the nickels and the dollars will take care of themselves.
> 
> Not certain if we are frugal, but we are careful. Value is important to us.


Well said. I think frugality is about always considering whether a product or service has value. Will it enhance your life, or not? If not, why are you buying it? For example, I recently cancelled my cable TV package when the introductory deal ended. I rarely watch TV any more, and I don't miss it one little bit. Instead of waste, I have an extra $60 a month to use in ways that matter to me. 

Another concept is the life cycle cost of a product. You can buy something "cheap" but if it falls apart within a couple of weeks, you have wasted money. Better to buy a quality product that will last for years.


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