# Unbelivable



## TaxReturnSucks (Feb 24, 2016)

I am young adult, 23, living alone, and working at a factory. Last year I made 19,000 and received 2,500 back as my tax return. This year i made 22,000 and received 500 back. I am not blaming anyone, but I think government should help out more. This year loonie fell by 20%, our wages of $12.75 an hour with $.30 increase every year is already hard to get by on. My Rent went up by $35 this year, so did utilities and groceries. I don't own a car, somehow bus passes went up as well despite low fuel prices. While in Switzerland servers receive 20 Swiss franks which are equal to about 30 CAN our country that has so much natural resources and potential keeps kicking the low income young adults to the curb. They wonder why young people are fleeing Manitoba, how are we supposed to survive like this?


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## TaxReturnSucks (Feb 24, 2016)

TaxReturnSucks said:


> I am young adult, 23, living alone, and working at a factory. Last year I made 19,000 and received 2,500 back as my tax return. This year i made 22,000 and received 500 back. I am not blaming anyone, but I think government should help out more. This year loonie fell by 20%, our wages of $12.75 an hour with $.30 increase every year is already hard to get by on. My Rent went up by $35 this year, so did utilities and groceries. I don't own a car, somehow bus passes went up as well despite low fuel prices. While in Switzerland servers receive 20 Swiss franks which are equal to about 30 CAN our country that has so much natural resources and potential keeps kicking the low income young adults to the curb. They wonder why young people are fleeing Manitoba, how are we supposed to survive like this?


Also the reason of increase in my income wasn't because of better wages, I worked overtime almost every week this year. Whats the point of working overtimes if in the end you will be making about the same amount of $.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Based on the calculator at taxtips.ca, you would pay $2990 tax on $22,000 and $2245 on $19,000 if you lived in Manitoba. That's around $750 more tax, for $3000 more income. You got to keep $2250 more this year than last year. 

It may look like less than that to you, because your employer seems to have withheld a larger percent of your income last year than this year. But if you look at the bottom line you should see it's not as crazy as you think.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm going out on a limb by guessing that you didn't work for entire year in 2014 (the year you made $19k). The taxes withheld by your employer would assume employment for the entire year.


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

MB taxes low incomes higher than any place except Quebec. The NDP takes that money so they can spend it for you, to improve your life, because you cannot be trusted to make good decisions. Feel the warm glow of social democracy run by a social worker.

Good old Greg keeps raising the minimum wage, but he doesn't index the personal exemption or tax brackets, so minimum wage increases and inflation mean increased tax revenues.

Oh yeah, and he increased the PST and hasn't balanced a budget in years and years.

I say to you Albertan's, welcome to the club.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

It's important to recognize the difference between (A) how much you pay in tax through the whole year and (B) how much you get back when you file. B is a nice windfall, but it is pretty meaningless. Look at you tax returns each year to see the total tax paid, which is the tax withheld by your employer minus the amount you get back as a refund. This is Line 435 on your tax return. (Your refund is Line 484.)

If you had less tax withheld through the year, you get less of a refund, but it doesn't mean that you paid more tax overall.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Your comparisons to Switzerland are generally irrelevant. The average cost of a cup of coffee there is 4 Swiss Francs. Incomes there are roughly double ours, but so is the cost of living.

However, you are correct that service personnel there receive a decent wage, with no tipping. Mind you, you also can't become a retail sales clerk without a 2-yr apprenticeship. (I'm sure food servers have to be trained too.) Which is why service is so good compared to North America where any minimum wage slave who walks in off the street is allowed to deal with customers.

The falling loonie is only relevant to the extant that it affects the cost of living in Canada, and that didn't go up 20%.

Your overall post about the struggle to get by is a valid complaint about the adequacy of current minimum wage laws.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

TaxReturnSucks said:


> Also the reason of increase in my income wasn't because of better wages, I worked overtime almost every week this year.
> Whats the point of working overtimes if in the end you will be making about the same amount of $.


What is reduced is your refund ... which most likely means the taxes withheld are much closer to what you owed (or some credits/deductions were not done). It also means you gave less of a free loan to the Manitoba and Federal gov't throughout the year, which is a good thing, right?

If you want to get better mileage out of your tax return, I would suggest learning how it works plus what optional credit/deductions or missed deductions that would potentially help you out.




TaxReturnSucks said:


> While in Switzerland servers receive 20 Swiss franks which are equal to about 30 CAN our country that has so much natural resources and potential keeps kicking the low income young adults to the curb.


Knowing an ex-pat Canadian who resides with his Swiss wife in Switzerland ... do you really want to compare with a country where most Swiss travel because traveling is cheaper than staying at home?

This sounds like some of the people who look at the US income tax rates, decide to leave and then discover that when all the costs are added in , there is not as big as difference as looking at only the tax rates imply (ex. want better schools? better neighbourhood protection? ... pay out of pocket).


If you can figure out a way to make more in Switzerland, go for ... the feedback I have says you might have trouble improving your lot. I haven't made an extensive search though.


Cheers


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

You're early 20s so you still have time to turn it around... but this seething envy and whining attitude is not helping you in any way young man/lady. The world is a harsh, unfair place, and it's your responsibility alone to produce the results you want for yourself.

Sacrifice, in some major way, will most likely be required of you...complaining on the internet about why your tax return wasn't higher isn't going to cut it..

If I could offer one helpful suggestion, it'd be that you move to a cheaper place with a roommate or two or three. Someone making $22,000/year (with overtime) is in no position to be living on their own. No, you don't deserve it, no matter how much profit the bus company is making from you, or how much money the Swiss earn for pouring coffee.

I don't mean to be harsh, but the less sympathetic ears you have access to the sooner you will realize the reality of life is that _no one cares_. Searching for false solace among strangers who have no interest in your life, pretending to empathize and help, is a dangerous hobby... You will be genuinely lucky if there are 2 or 3 people in this whole world that actually care about your success or failure.

I can tell you that I could've easily been in your situation a few years ago, I know many people back home who are like you, but telling you that will not help you in any way. The very last thing someone who comes onto the internet with a user name like "TaxReturnsSuck" making a post titled "unbelievable", full of negativity, and ending with the question "how are we supposed to live like this?" needs is sympathy and understanding.

You can only control your life, so take control of it and take responsibility for yourself. Later, if you want to improve the world, you can attempt to do so by educating yourself, using your vote wisely, and influencing the votes of others to enact change in the world (hint: the parties that promote higher taxes, higher minimum wages, offshoring, and rampant 3rd world immigration are not the solution).

You have self proclaimed yourself to be an "adult"... Let us hope that your subsequent postings in this forum are more similar to those that an adult might make.

I wish you all the success that you can achieve.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

You seem unhappy with your financial situation.

What are your plans on improving it?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

taxes if you can work the math in this thread, you've got logic.

if you can hack a 40-hour work week plus overtime in a factory, you've got talent.

if you can complain the way you do, you've got spunk.

you're only 23, but the truth is you can be whoever you want to be. You can go wherever you aim to go.

if you're working in a factory, then likely there's also a college in your town. What, ideally, would you like to do in life? in the best of all possible worlds, where would you like to be at the age of 40 years?

please dream big. Then please come back & tell us about it. Best wishes in the meantime.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Amen to that Humble.............

When you are 23 and looking ahead you see a lot of closed doors.

When you are 65 and looking back you see a lot of missed opportunities, if only you had pushed one of the doors open.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

To the original poster: there's good replies in this thread, and I think you're getting caught up on the amount of your "refund" which really isn't a meaningful number. Look at the taxes you actually paid off your paycheques.

Another tip: if you pay property taxes *or rent an apartment*, you can claim a credit on the Manitoba Credits form MB479 under Education and property tax credit.

This is a type of credit that I missed a few times when living in Ontario and Manitoba. Oops.


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## Turnip7 (Mar 9, 2014)

There is hope for you.
To see what the future holds take a look at the CBC with a search for :
"millennials-money-canada-generation-1.3462064"
"Wrong, says a new analysis from the federal Finance Department: 28- to 34-year-olds are actually the wealthiest such generation in Canadian history."


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I am young adult, 23, living alone, and working at a factory. Last year I made 19,000 and received 2,500 back as my tax return.


Those Canadian amuse me! So, why you don't study something useful and earn more?! Our son 20 y.o. studying in University and earn almost like you in his co-op semester. And when he finishes study, he will earn 3 - 4 times more than you. It's very easy to say, "I'm stupid , cannot study" and complain.



> I think government should help out more.


 I don't think so! Why I should pay higher taxes (that's already extremely high), because somebody is not capable to make more money?!



> Your comparisons to Switzerland are generally irrelevant.


 True! Have you ever eaten in fast food restaurant in Switzerland ?!

However, the valid complain.... why practically all EU countries have free universities (in Germany even for internatinal students) ... and Canada just fighting with "climate change" and helping terrorists


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes, you should be like gibor - he never complains. Oh wait - all he does is complain and lecture us about how awful Canada is. He doesn't want to pay taxes, but he thinks education should be free. Because the professors and admin staff and cleaners will all work for nothing. (Most EU countries have higher taxes than Canada.)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm in Oregon USA and my taxes (federal+state) here are higher than Manitoba. And in Manitoba you get health care along with it ... complain all you want, but it's a good deal. Canadian taxes are quite low in the big scheme of things and you get great value for your tax dollar.

And yes that is a direct and fair comparison since I file taxes in both jurisdictions. For two years now I can confirm that Manitoba taxes are less than this US state.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> He doesn't want to pay taxes


 your usual BS! I want "flat tax" system (the only fair system) , that everyone pay same % from their income ... and if there is progressive tax system, higher education should be free like in EU... 



> Most EU countries have higher taxes than Canada.


 Not sure .... Germany, France or Ireland with their free universities has lower taxes than Canada


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I'm in Oregon USA a


 Oregon doesn't have sales tax at all


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

TaxReturnSucks said:


> Also the reason of increase in my income wasn't because of better wages, I worked overtime almost every week this year. Whats the point of working overtimes if in the end you will be making about the same amount of $.


 To make 22,000 when being paid 12.75 an hour you would average working slightly more then 33 hours a week. That is not a lot of hours working when I was 23 if I only averaged working 33 hours a week a year I would have felt like I was on vacation. Kids now days feel they are entitled. Employer gives an employee a job employee does not like the job yet they don't have the ambition to do their own thing & create a job for themselves they want someone to supply them with a job. Today most of the low income young adults if they know how to stretch a dollar can live like kings compared to years ago. Its not about fitting in by being able to buy useless stuff to be hip its about enjoying life.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

gibor said:


> your usual BS! I want "flat tax" system (the only fair system) , that everyone pay same % from their income ... and if there is progressive tax system, higher education should be free like in EU...
> 
> Not sure .... Germany, France or Ireland with their free universities has lower taxes than Canada


Nope. From OECD taxation statistics, Canada's total tax revenue as a percentage of GDP in 2014 is 30.8%. Ireland's is slightly lower at 29.9%, while Germany's is higher at 36.1% and France's is way, way higher at 45.2%. 

I like to look up facts before forming opinions. You might want to try it some time G.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Exactly. Move forward with your life. Only you have the power to improve it. 

That rear view mirror is useless.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I would bet both Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger would gladly hand over their billions of dollars to be 23 again.

_I Wish I Was Eighteen Again.
_
_On a rig down in Venice, an old hand chimed in
And they thought he was out of his head
And all of the young hands, they just laughed it off
When they heard what this old hand had said

He said, "I'll never again turn the young ladies heads
Or go running off in to the wind
I'm three quarters home from the start to the end
And I wish I was eighteen again"

Oh I wish, I was eighteen again
And going where I've never been
Now old folks and old oaks standing tall just pretend
I wish I was eighteen again

Time turns the pages and life goes so fast
The years turn the black hair all gray
I talk to some young folks but they don't understand
The words this old man got to say
_

Read more: Ray Price - I Wish I Was Eighteen Again Lyrics


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

gibor said:


> your usual BS! I want "flat tax" system (the only fair system) , that everyone pay same % from their income ... and if there is progressive tax system, higher education should be free like in EU...
> 
> Not sure .... Germany, France or Ireland with their free universities has lower taxes than Canada


Really? 

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it1.html

Irish *corporate* taxes are low. Irish *personal *taxes are high.


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## Willwemakeit (Feb 7, 2016)

If I keep on doing what I've always done, I'll always get what I've always got comes to mind.

With youth on your side, ever thought about working your tush off for a short period of time doing another job or extra overtime, doing whatever it takes even if it means stepping outside your comfort zone to reduce your overall living expenses by living with parents, relatives or roomies and socking a nice sum away for emergency fund and future savings needs?

Just saying youth = energy and most likely time before starting a family to build up a good nest egg. Well, that's what we found a few decades ago!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

heyjude said:


> Really?
> 
> http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it1.html
> 
> Irish *corporate* taxes are low. Irish *personal *taxes are high.


as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
Ireland maximum individual tax is 40%, Germany 45%, Canada "50% + Surcharge taxes (Varies) (15%-29% federal + 5%-21% provincial + $0–$900CDN Health Premium + Surcharge Taxes)"


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

gibor said:


> as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates
> Ireland maximum individual tax is 40%, Germany 45%, Canada "50% + Surcharge taxes (Varies) (15%-29% federal + 5%-21% provincial + $0–$900CDN Health Premium + Surcharge Taxes)"


Ireland also has several other taxes, including 23% VAT, a television license fee, water rates, road taxes, gas prices that are double those in Canada, inheritance taxes, and private health insurance. Overall cost of living there is significantly higher compared to salaries than in Canada. Trust me. I used to live there.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

wondering why the thread has wandered so far off the path of trying to help this young person, though.

kindly-worded earlier posts explained the taxes on his wages to the OP & sought to reassure him.

what i sensed from the OP'S message - reading between the lines - is that here was a young person who'd perhaps had a difficult time early in life. Who perhaps had not been given too many breaks. But who obviously had enormous energy & who could obviously hold down a responsible job. So _a priori_ there was a whole lot of positive to work with.

there are plenty of children who don't have ideal childhoods. Parents are missing, disadvantaged, whatever. I think we have a moral obligation to stop whenever we come across such a youth & try to figure out how to help. It's also important to offer a helping hand as early as possible, we are told. "It takes a village to raise a child," they say.

unfortunately, the posts in this thread then took a nasty turn. Out came nagging, scolding, scorning & preaching. Does it really make those later posters feel superior, to be able to look down from what they claim are their affluent & prosperous positions, in order to scold a very young person who is struggling in a hard place?


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

This forum is filled with rich old people who thinks they pay too much taxes.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> wondering why the thread has wandered so far off the path of trying to help this young person, though.


Apologies for my contribution to thread drift. 
The OP has not participated since post #2. We know nothing about him or her, except that he or she appears to live in Manitoba and have some knowledge of Switzerland.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

heyjude said:


> Apologies for my contribution to thread drift.
> The OP has not participated since post #2. We know nothing about him or her, except that he or she appears to live in Manitoba and have some knowledge of Switzerland.



no apologies there! i always admire your messages jude ...

i was more thinking of the harsher posts above that blame the OP for not being in a better state. IMHO he's too young for reproach, he's more of an age where "the village" should be lending a hand.

it's true he's disappeared. We won't know whether he was turned off by the scolding voices or whether he is the kind of person - even at his young age - who prefers to remain extremely angry, all of the time.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Could be ... but then again, when I was a similar age - the tax return and "a refund means one has over-paid one's taxes owing" were understood.

The key here IMO is that until the OP masters the tax return ... swings in the refund value as well as limited knowledge comparisons may lead the OP astray.

After than ... the OP has to figure out what opportunities there are in Manitoba, what the potential is and whether leaving the province is in their best interest. This is a pretty common question for a young person to figure out.


Cheers


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

HP, your unwavering optimism is amazing, and it is sometimes hard to believe that a person like yourself exists (an important voice among the village). But the objective, pragmatic voice is equally as important. Too much of one and not enough of the other will lead to disaster either way. A balance is needed.

The OP is 23 after all, not 17. The time for coddling, if it hasn't ended already, is drawing soon to a close. The ratio of "man-up" to "it'll be OK" advice needs to increase as one grows from their teens into their early 20s. As can be seen among the late-millennial crowd, expectations become unreasonable, and unhappiness abounds when too much optimism and not enough pragmatism is thrown one's way.


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

Given the looming trade shortage, it might be time for the OP to enter a trade - then he can be one of the rich old men complaining about too much socialism one day!


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## rl1983 (Jun 17, 2015)

^ If I was 23 again, I would definitely try and get a trade. Get your ticket, and then go find something that you truly love.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

heyjude said:


> Ireland also has several other taxes, including 23% VAT, a television license fee, water rates, road taxes, gas prices that are double those in Canada, inheritance taxes, and private health insurance. Overall cost of living there is significantly higher compared to salaries than in Canada. Trust me. I used to live there.


it's not the point where taxes a bit higher or lower.... I've said many times that I'd agree to modest tax increase that we have free higher education for everyone like in EU countries.

To have free education only for limited group of people whose parent earn less than 50K (obviously who earn more gonna pay for they education) is idiotic!
btw, I came to Canada at 33 , my mom lived in Israel and had income less than 10K.... so what, I could've learn for free in any University?! Isn't it stupid?!
I'd think that practically all new immigrants will qualify to free universities....and how many gonna leave Canada after graduation?


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

gibor said:


> it's not the point where taxes a bit higher or lower.... I've said many times that I'd agree to modest tax increase that we have free higher education for everyone like in EU countries.
> 
> To have free education only for limited group of people whose parent earn less than 50K (obviously who earn more gonna pay for they education) is idiotic!
> btw, I came to Canada at 33 , my mom lived in Israel and had income less than 10K.... so what, I could've learn for free in any University?! Isn't it stupid?!
> I'd think that practically all new immigrants will qualify to free universities....and how many gonna leave Canada after graduation?


My parents and I paid for my University education in Ireland. But that was before they made it "free". The decision to make 3D level tuition government sponsored was a strategic one, to build a highly skilled economy. That was actually key to attracting many international high tech companies. The downside is that following the banking crisis and collapse of the Celtic Tiger, many thousands of highly educated people had to emigrate and the remaining population is saddled with a huge debt.

I do not plan to get into a discussion of Ontario politics.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Taraz said:


> Given the looming trade shortage


*Shortage?* You mean all the western Canadian tradespeople that are now unemployed and roaming the country for work?

Now wait until the real estate market slows down, then you'll see


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## rl1983 (Jun 17, 2015)

I agree there isn't a shortage. Trades people in the next 20 years I think the market will be overloaded with them. It's done on purpose to keep the wages low. I think a Journeyman electrician or plumber should be minimum $30/hr but with all these school pumping them out, who knows.

Makes me almost not want to complete my ticket....


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