# What to do with condo



## Fisherman30 (Dec 5, 2018)

Okay, here's the situation. Just wanted everyone's thoughts. I'm thinking that just selling the place is my best bet and getting it off my shoulders.

I own a condo that I moved out of a few years ago, and at the time, I thought it would be smart to keep it and rent it out, hoping that prices would get better.

I owe about $136 000 on the mortgage, and to be honest, I would likely be selling it for $145-$150 000 right now. I paid $169 000 for it back in 2013. The condo fees are going up by about $25/month annually in order to beef up the reserve fund and cover scheduled maintenance. By renting it out, I am losing $175/month after factoring in condo fees, etc. My current tenants will be moving out by the beginning of April. Hopefully demand will increase a little bit in the Spring.

Everyone here agree it's a good idea to just bail out?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

With context: https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/136234-Time-to-get-on-track!?p=1993424#post1993424
Yup, with the tenant moving out in April, seems like an opportune time and good idea. 
Clean 'er up well, make any repairs, stage it nicely and it sounds like you should get close to the outstanding mortgage balance (after selling costs).
Get a good realtor and realistic pricing.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Huh, where is this condo located? I know of few places in Canada where condo prices are lower today than in 2013. So I am finding it hard to understand why you would have to sell at a loss from your purchase price back then.


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## Fisherman30 (Dec 5, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> Huh, where is this condo located? I know of few places in Canada where condo prices are lower today than in 2013. So I am finding it hard to understand why you would have to sell at a loss from your purchase price back then.



Winnipeg....Market is quite saturated with condos. Prices have historically gone up a bit every Spring, but I won't get my hopes up too high. The prices right now are about as low as they likely get, I would imagine, as not many people likely want to be moving in January in Winnipeg. Hopefully there will be more buyers looking in April.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I still fail to see why a condo bought in 2013 would have to be sold at a loss in 2019. Either you are leaving something out in regards to why your specific condominium building is selling for below average prices, or you are getting bad info from someone.

Winnipeg average prices have risen every year for the last 19 years. There was as higher start in new condo developments in 2017 but that alone would not be enough to effectively drop all condo prices enough to roll the average price back beyond 2013. The only other thing I can think of is that you really overpaid in 2013.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2017/schl-cmhc/nh12-233/NH12-233-2017-2-eng.pdf

I'm not in Winnipeg and know nothing other than what I can read about the Winnipeg market but I think I would be talking to several more people directly involved in the Winnipeg Condo market, like someone in the Winnipeg Real Estate Board for example, before I decided on what price I should be expecting to get for a condo. 

http://www.winnipegrealtors.ca/about-us/board-of-directors


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I can easily see how a condo has not appreciated since 2013. This is actually the position of many condo owners in Calgary. Price is a function of market and condo condition/issues. The market was overbuilt, the recession hit, and all of a sudden there were far more sellers than buyers. Still the case today.

We downsized and sold our home in late 2012. From late 2013 we rented a higher end condo. Our intention was to rent for six months to a year while we looked with a view to buying. We rented for four years and watched the condo market drop. The condo we rented (2002 build) has had a total of $47K of assessments over seven years. The unit is selling today for the same price that it was purchased at nine years ago. No doubt the owner will receive slightly less than the asking price if a sale occurs. This one is deep in the red. We are fortunate. We considered buying a unit in the complex early on but decided to wait the market out.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

ian said:


> The market was overbuilt, the recession hit, and all of a sudden there were far more buyers than sellers. Still the case today.


I would have thought that far more buyers than sellers = price increase. Calgary market is different, I suppose, and does not operate on ordinary economic principles.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Thanks...my mistake. I did correct it to read far more sellers than buyers. And there still are.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

What happens in any given location has no bearing at all on what happens somewhere else. So talking about Calgary is pointless. If you look at the link I provided, you will find that Winnipeg real estate average prices have increased every year for the last 19 years. So the question remains, why not with this specific condo? 

Either some important piece of info has been left out or this makes no sense. I would be making some calls to some people who can be expected to be in the know and finding out what I should be expecting with a condo bought in 2013. Then if that info comes back 'you should expect an increase in price', I would be making some calls to ask why is that not the case with this condo?

It could be as simple as some lame *** real estate agent who isn't making any money, just looking to get a quick sale and pocket a quick commission. I have no idea but I know I would be very sure of why I should accept a lose on a condo bought in 2013 in a market that has been rising. I'm not sure Fisherman30 is that sure of the reason for being told he has to take a loss.

It could be that it is in a very poorly run condo building that looks like crap outside and in and has not been maintained over the years or something, resulting in a run down looking building no one wants to buy in. But that there is a $25 per month increase in fees coming doesn't sound like that, that factor sounds like a reasonable increase to keep ahead of the curve. Something ain't right.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Fisherman30, are you still living in Winnipeg? When was the last time you physically visited the building? Who is telling you that you need to sell at a loss?


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## Fisherman30 (Dec 5, 2018)

No one is "telling me" I have to sell at a loss.

Just looking at all of the sales in my particular development, the average sale price has been dropping since 2013. 

This particular development has a lot going for it, but there are a lot of new condo developments going on the market. I suspect the increase of sale price you are referring to is mostly a result of more luxurious condos being sold. The condos in the $150-200k price range have been pretty stagnant. Most people are going after the newer condos.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

If not already, OP should also familiarize themselves with current condo listings ($125-200k) on Realtor-ca to understand what the competition looks like.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We watched and shopped our market for four years. We found that the real estate board numbers, the averages, were next to useless when it came to condos. More than useless, I think they are designed to be purposely misleading. 

Over the period we saw values change that were completely at variance with real estate board reported averages. The condo market in our city was really made up of several distinct components. Four level wood frame, concrete, older vs newer, units with swimming pools etc, location, history of assessments, age, and of course what new builds on the market were offering. 

It seems to me that real estate boards are much more interested in serving realtors/sellers than they are buyers. I guess it is natural because this is where their funding comes from


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Not sure why anyone reads “reports” when they have access to raw data. He one thing I learned in stats course was “what do you want the stats to say?” 

If you want to know anything about prices, pull up the raw data. It’s not fudged, it applies specifically to what you want to know and it’s all accurate without spin. 

We always pull up a buildings history on any property I’m interested in, we also pull up comparable properties based on my criteria not those that don’t apply. No point in comparing a 3 story 20 unit apartment with a townhouse condo for example. 

All the could ever want is available to you, you just have to know how to access and find it.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

That is exactly what our real estate agent did for us. She also had a connection to a someone who specialized in condo litigation and a client who was an engineer who consulted on building envelope remediation. When she was looking out for us she was able to eliminate a number of properties that we might otherwise of had an interest in following up. She had some horror stories.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

That’s why you request the condo docs as a condition. It also helps to have a phone call with the property manager.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I'm just not seeing any indication the OP is doing any of that or even an indication that it is a Real Estate agent who is saying what the current market price for his unit is. Something just isn't adding up for me.


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