# Think or Swim Canada



## ffej49 (Apr 6, 2012)

Anyone using the platform here? I see lots of folks discussing Waterhouse and Questrade. Had a bad experience at quest....my accts still are opened 6 mos later (despite my best efforts)

I know some folks in the US who swear by ToS.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

*Think or Swim. Excellent platform.*

*Excellent platform. * 

However, ...
To qualify for thinkorswim, users are required to complete an average of 30 trades per quarter,
which, of course, will occur at the following rates.
U.S. Equities $9.99 Flat
U.S. Options $9.99 + $1.25 per contract

Therefore, one would be forced to incur a minimum of *$1,200 in annual commissions*, in order to use this platform. no thanks.

I will continue to use the 'free' ThinkOrSwim paperMoney version to assist me in planning potential option trades that I will execute in my real money trading accounts.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I am one of the greater pumper and hater of the platform at the same time. I hate it mainly because Canadians are treated as second class citizens by TOS. I use it for options and the fees are a lot less than what avrex posted. I don't know the exact details or why/how I got to this stage , but if I do a cost basis calculation, the fees are peanuts compared to all other competitors.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fact: TOS canada so far offers a US platform only. So for people who cross-trade interlisted stocks & options, TOS does not work.

rumour: at one tme it was believed that tdw canada would utilize TOS to build their own mainframe. This would give them real-time margin calculations. A by-product is that it would also produce the long-awaited USD rrsp.

more rumour: the above rumour is out-of-date.

still more rumour: the platform tdw canada is now seriously developing is trade architect, already offered by tdameritrade usa.

even fainter rumourlet: increased costs are causing delays for canadian version.


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## ffej49 (Apr 6, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> still more rumour: the platform tdw canada is now seriously developing is trade architect, already offered by tdameritrade usa.
> 
> even fainter rumourlet: increased costs are causing delays for canadian version.


I actually work for TDameritrade (in a cdn call centre). Trad Arch is a really cool platform that seems to have may resemblances to the "web based" version of Cdn ToS. I will do a little research on my end and see if I can get some more facts to add to these rumours.

The US version does not have any trade mimimums or anything like that. In fact it is free to anyone with an acct. From having been with TDA for over a year, I can say honestly that this is one of the few times in my life that I lament being cdn. 3 diff't trading platforms, plus mobile app, Ipad app. I hope waterhouse gets on thier horse soon...or hope that TD buys more share of Ameritrade and make some form of TDCanadatrade.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Just so that there is no potential confusion for others that are reading this thread...

*Canadians cannot sign up for TD Ameritrade.*

We therefore cannot take advantage of the 'no trade minimums' that Americans enjoy.


*************************************************


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## ffej49 (Apr 6, 2012)

avrex said:


> Just so that there is no potential confusion for others that are reading this thread...
> 
> *Canadians cannot sign up for TD Ameritrade.*
> 
> ...


COrrect. I should have bee more clear.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

not to worry, it's clear to resident canadians that they can't open accounts with US brokers.

this is why interactive brokers incorporated a canadian subsidiary & set its head office in canada. To serve canadian clients with a slightly modified version of its US business model.

what's more interesting, if ff49 is correct, is that td ameritrade has established a call centre in canada. This would mean outsourcing such a call centre from the US ... into canada. Not to asia or the philippines or central america ... but to canada.

normally this would be done if a US firm were expecting, say, a high number of calls from unilingual french-speaking clients. This is not likely to be the case for US clients of td ameritrade. 

another reason could be high quality of service coupled with lower costs that could be obtainable from a canadian call centre.

and another reason could be that td bank group is the majority owner of td ameritrade. There could be canadian tax benefits to a corporation whose US subsidiary would outsource some of its business services to canada.

anyhow, canadians are not going to find a local phone number for td ameritrade in the phone directory. Wherever you live in canada, they don't want to hear from you.


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## ffej49 (Apr 6, 2012)

Humble:

It is actually a legacy TDW call centre. Ameritrade and TDW merged back in 07 (I think) to become TD Ameritrade. We are contracted for a few more years. 

As far as tax bene's...could be. Never actually thought about it. We are not bi-lingual here, and only service TDA clients...no watherhouse clientele at all.

Question for you: How is IB's trading platform. I have been trying to decide between TDW and Questrade. Plus's and Minus's to both...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i see. But perhaps you could aim to renew your contract, if you want to keep going. Be so good that they won't be able to find equal in the US of A when renewal comes up.

i'm not an IB client, there are several here who seem very happy.

as for questrade, what plusses do you find other than cheep cheep price.


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## ffej49 (Apr 6, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> i see. But perhaps you could aim to renew your contract, if you want to keep going. Be so good that they won't be able to find equal in the US of A when renewal comes up.
> 
> i'm not an IB client, there are several here who seem very happy.
> 
> as for questrade, what plusses do you find other than cheep cheep price.


That is the idea...be the best little broker I can be!

As far as quest...cheap is all they seem to have going for them. Not had a good experience. And actually don't have any $ with them right now. That was the poitn of this thread originally. Was ToS a viable option for cdn's (not for me). I'm leanign now towards TDW, but may investigate IB.

Side note: I rec'd an email from ToS Can and they said that they are adding RRSP/RESP/TFSA's in 1st Q of 2012.


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## dime (Jun 20, 2013)

Surprised there isn't more discussion about think or swim. Also that this thread was started in 2012. 

I wish I knew much sooner that TD offered the Think-or-swim trading platform to USD Margin account holders. I'm thinking of getting set up on it as it seems that it has an excellent reputation for some time in the states, and it seems there are no extra fees for using this very advanced real time platform that doesn't cost any extra fees. Anyone using TOS currently here in Canada? Any new thoughts or opinions on this platform?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I use TOS for trading options and I think it is great. The consensus seems to be that it is the leading system, and the one to beat. Getting the platform and data for free is nice too. As I have not tried any other system I can't tell you how it compares.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ffej49 said:


> How is IB's trading platform. I have been trying to decide between TDW and Questrade. Plus's and Minus's to both...


I used IB for non-reg and Questrade for TFSA/RRSP (now all at Questrade) IB is probably more powerful platform for extreme traders. Questrade keeps advancing by the quarter, and is just much more enjoyable to use for new traders (wasn't the case 5 years ago) IB is lacking for Canadians as an American step child. Other Canadian brokers have copied and try to copy Questrade's innovations. I rule out most others for their backwater handling of USDs


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

dime said:


> Surprised there isn't more discussion about think or swim....


Back at the beginning of this thread, in 2012, I wrote



avrex said:


> *Excellent platform. *
> 
> However, ...
> To qualify for thinkorswim, users are required to complete an average of 30 trades per quarter,
> ...


Have the costs changed since 2012?

I would only be interested, if they have lowered the costs and/or restrictions on this account. 

Love the platform. Hate the commissions.

For my non-registered options trading account, I'll stick with Interactive Brokers much cheaper $0.70 per contract fees.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm paying $5 for an option trade. I think this is their lowest rate. If you mention Tastytrade they will give you the cheap rate.


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## dime (Jun 20, 2013)

*TOS costs*



avrex said:


> Have the costs changed since 2012?
> 
> I would only be interested, if they have lowered the costs and/or restrictions on this account.


My understanding after speaking with customer reps twice.... it does not have any costs other than the commission fees. 
No data fees, no account fees etc. You just need to have a US margin trading account.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^

the TD has a promotion going on right now. Bunches of free trades, in tiers according to how much new money a client transfers in. I believe the promo applies to TOS, but better double-check.

what i don't know is whether a new TOS client who benefits from the Tasty Trade side entrance that Rusty mentioned just upothread, can also have the promotional free trades. Common sense would tell me *not.*

the free trades all have to be used up within 60 days, which in turns means that most will lapse unused. For most folks a permanent $5 commission such as the one Rusty mentions will prove to be more valuable.


EDIT (2 weeks later) cannot have both TD promo plus Tasty Trade promo. Has to be one or the other. Tasty is probably the better deal unless they cancel their promo, which they can do without notice.


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## SumoJax (Apr 10, 2016)

Been trading options with my US$ margin account on TOS for over 5 years now. Best option trading platform period!! If you are a member of TastyTrade you get preferred rates when you either open a new TOS account and fund with $5000.00 or fund existing TOS account.

Rates:
$7.00 flat rate on stocks
$1.25/contract (min $5.00/trade) 
$0.00 commissions for buying back short options $0.05 or less
You also get 2 year subscription to BOB THE TRADER 

If you trade options TastyTrade is a must. It's taken my option trading to a new level. Don't trade anything else. Check it out!!

Only complaint that I have with TOS Canada is that they are not offering Futures Trading and Portfolio Margin Accounts as is offered to US residents. But I hear they are working on it..........................fingers crossed:biggrin:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the only thing i don't see is how to get those $5 commish that Rusty mentions upthread.

$5 on stocks only + regular tasty trade option commish of 1.25 per contract = preferred rate for clients with 1,500 trades per quarter.

1,500 trades per quarter? 6,000 trades per annum? wow, that is almost the profile of a tiny fund.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

I totally agree with you @humble_pie.

I don't see how they can get a low trade commission AND avoid high annual total commissions at TOS.

I'm sticking with my low-cost Interactive Brokers unless I see otherwise.
At IB, only trade as often as I wish. My annual costs are Low.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I didn't like IB's minimum monthly fee, which they charged even if inactive. Sometimes I went 6 months without a trade and that's $60 USD in fees for nothing, even without market data subscriptions.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I get the $1.25 commission (min $5) by mentioning Tastytrade and don't do that many trades. The 0 commisson for buying back cheap options is not available in Canada. I think I got 1 year of Bob the Trader but never looked at it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I get the $1.25 commission (min $5) by mentioning Tastytrade and don't do that many trades. The 0 commisson for buying back cheap options is not available in Canada. I think I got 1 year of Bob the Trader but never looked at it.



a big difference for those who started TOS accounts via the Tastytrade side entrance is that tasty option orders appear to have no base charge. IE option orders for tasty clients are plain 1.25 per contract with the $5 minimum, as Rusty mentions.

another benefit for tasty clients is that equity orders are $7, not the 9.99 rate or 6.99 rate for active traders only that TDDI clients pay for the webBroker interface.

the above commissions for stocks & options are tasty indeed.

Rusty does the TOS interface calculate the reduced tastyTrade commission automatically for every order, or does the client have to phone the broker for every trade & request a downward adjustment? this latter would be a PITA imho


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I do all my trades online. When I push the button it calculates the commission automatically and adds it to the trade.

For example today I bought a strangle in May Tesla for $17.13. When I clicked Confirm and Send it showed as $1713 + $5 = $1718. If I did 2 it would also be $5. 3 would be $7.50, 4 would be $10 and so on. $1.25 per option with $5 minimum.


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## lazypiggy (Feb 21, 2017)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I get the $1.25 commission (min $5) by mentioning Tastytrade and don't do that many trades. The 0 commisson for buying back cheap options is not available in Canada. I think I got 1 year of Bob the Trader but never looked at it.


It's now available through TD. See below for the details.
I've signed up for opening a margin account with TOS account through TD. I'll be transferring out of Questrade for lower commissions.


*A special offer from TD Direct Investing
If you open your new TD Direct Investing account with access to thinkorswim and fund it with at least $5,000 USD between now and December 31, 2017 you'll get this special offer:

Exclusive commission rates*:
$7.00 flat rate stock trades
$1.25/option contract ($5 minimum per trade)
$0 Commission to buy back short option contracts valued at $0.05 or less*

source:
tastytrade.com/tt/get-trading?locale=en-CA&utm_source=tastytrade&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=Tom


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