# Buying apple stock



## frugalmini (Feb 19, 2011)

Hi, 

I have a few questions about buying us stock. 

I have been wanting a mac book pro and an iPad and an iPhone for a long long time. And everyone is sick of me talking about my dream. The thing is I don't need them, my current laptop works fine and so is my cellphone. As for iPad i don't think how it is going to fit into my life. I have computer access everywhere any ways. 

So I decided to buy apple stock. With the budget of an iPhone and the new Macbook Pro. Hope this will keep me shut up. 

The questions are:
1, how I'm going to buy the US stock on waterhouse brokerage account? 
I have no US dollar, but I do have a US account there. Cannot remember why did i have it the first place.
Do I have to exchange to US dollar and put it in the US account and buy it from there? Or I can just buy it directly from my canadian account, just like other candian stocks.
2, is it silly to by 10 share of the stock?
Thanks,


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Not sure about the investment strategy of buying shares in companies who make products you like.

For Apple, I'm skeptical that they can maintain this sort of growth. To sustain their valuation, they need to release a blockbuster product every few months and knock every one out of the park.

I think most of the gain is already priced in. But then, who knows. Maybe they'll make an iCar or something and sell a couple dozen million of those.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Maybe they'll make an iCar or something and sell a couple dozen million of those.


Yeah, and it will have only one pedal for all of the Mac users out there.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree with andrew

I think Android has more potential growth at this point. Plus there is the Steve Jobs factor whether perceived or real, that can only hurt the stock


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I would wait for the stock to go down before buying it. I do think they have plenty of growth yet -- I bet the iPad is going to eclipse even the iPhone as their most popular product, and their PC business will ride along the coattails.

FYI, two-button mice have worked with the Mac since it was introduced.


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## frugalmini (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for sharing the opinions!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

frugalmini said:


> Hi,
> 
> 1. The thing is I don't need them.
> 2. I have no US dollar, but I do have a US account there.
> ...


1. Don't buy what you don't need, especially tech. items; simple, isn't it?! 
2. You mean that you have a US$ account sitting empty?
3. No, but if you had US dollars, you would avoid the exchange rate. 
4. No, because Apple could go to $400+ by year end [it was pretty close to that already], and if it were to drop, you wouldn't feel so bad for not having tied up higher capital.

Consider the stock has grown close to 50% in the last 18 months, so think whether the current price of $330+ is a good entry point for you. 

Also consider other basic fundamentals & factors, such as volatility, new product estimates for 2011, Mr. Job's health, etc. Unless I'm wrong, the stock was downgraded yesterday for the first time in a very long time, but mostly due to Japan.

You might consider Apple's rivals, one in particular, which is coming up with its latest gadget very shortly & is closer to home.  Or many other solid, but beaten up stocks in this category. 

What is for sure, is that what goes up, must come down. 

Good luck!


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## ChrisR (Jul 13, 2009)

I agree with andrewf. Don't let your own personal feelings about a brand influence your investment strategy. 

Buy the products because you like the stuff they make.

Buy the stock because you like the way they run the business.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I think one key piece of information missing from your post (and in fact missing from 90% of the posts in this forum) is your time horizon. Are you investing for a short-term goal or for 10, 20, or 40 years from now? That makes a difference. If you want to make money right away, I'm not sure buying Apple today is a great idea.

The best time to buy Apple stock was back when John Sculley was running the company, and later Gil Amelio. (Jobs famously lured Sculley, who was CEO of Pepsico, to Apple by asking him if he wanted to sell sugar water for the rest of his life or come to Apple and change the world.) Everyone assumed Apple was going to go belly-up (stem-up?); if you'd bought back then you'd be very happy right now.

I am sure like most other stocks Apple's value will experience some fluctuation in the next few years, including some possible steep dives, but my expectation is that over the longer term its value will continue to climb. Even without Steve Jobs at the helm, the company has the advantage of having attracted many of the brightest minds in the business on all fronts, from initial design to engineering to marketing.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I am a PC/Motorola cell phone user. I have held AAPL stock since it was (split-adjusted) $8. I believed that their various initiatives would drive the demand for Macs at high margins, while making good low margin business on consumer products like the iPod.

When they first reached $75, I sold out my holdings to get rid of the capital gains in a low income retirement year (1400 shares). Then I repurchased 300 shares later at $50, capitalizing on their inherent volatility.

I am still holding those 300 shares. I know I could make money on the swings but I believe that they will eventually prove to everyone that they are a unique company. They understand the consumer and eventually they will overcome the inherent resistance in the corporate sector.

Meanhwile, I think there will be a pitched battle between the iPhone, the various Androids, and other proprietary OSs like Windows Mobile. These will eventually take over the PDA space as well as the iPad space. How the shares will shake out is anyone's guess.

Since Apple is used to making money from a small share position, I think they will continue to thrive. Just don't expect a quick hit They can run cold for several years...


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Buy low. Sell high.


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

brad said:


> I think one key piece of information missing from your post (and in fact missing from 90% of the posts in this forum) is your time horizon. Are you investing for a short-term goal or for 10, 20, or 40 years from now? That makes a difference. If you want to make money right away, I'm not sure buying Apple today is a great idea.
> 
> The best time to buy Apple stock was back when John Sculley was running the company, and later Gil Amelio. (Jobs famously lured Sculley, who was CEO of Pepsico, to Apple by asking him if he wanted to sell sugar water for the rest of his life or come to Apple and change the world.) Everyone assumed Apple was going to go belly-up (stem-up?); if you'd bought back then you'd be very happy right now.
> 
> I am sure like most other stocks Apple's value will experience some fluctuation in the next few years, including some possible steep dives, but my expectation is that over the longer term its value will continue to climb. Even without Steve Jobs at the helm, the company has the advantage of having attracted many of the brightest minds in the business on all fronts, from initial design to engineering to marketing.




The key word is Steve Jobs. He lured the pepsi guy.
Steve Jobs is Apple, and Apple is Steve Jobs.

Without him they will be a mediocre company. Think Disney after poor Walt kicked the bucket.

Personally Apple doesnt pay dividends so that rules them out. Add in the health of Jobs, and the quirky nature of technology.

I cant say for sure if Apple will be the leader with innovative products in 20 years.

I can safely assume people will be drinking sugar water, shaving, wiping their ***, and using deodorants 20 years from now.

And as such, coke, kimberly clark, proctor gamble etc are much safer bets.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

bean438 said:


> Steve Jobs is Apple, and Apple is Steve Jobs.


And yet if you were Steve Jobs and you knew your days were numbered, wouldn't you do everything in your power to ensure that your legacy is in good hands? Apple foundered in the past without Jobs, but he was ousted suddenly. Now he has had a few years to prepare for his ultimate departure (which of course we hope doesn't happen anytime soon but everyone's mortal) and you can bet that he's spent a lot of time getting the company ready to go on without him.

It's true that few people understand consumers the way he does -- Apple has never held focus groups or done market research; they don't need to with Jobs at the helm. But I suspect he has "infected" enough leaders in the company with his philosphy and vision that they've got it too.



bean438 said:


> And as such, coke, kimberly clark, proctor gamble etc are much safer bets.


Again, it depends on what you're after. If you're investing for the fun of it, safe bets are boring.


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

Almost nobody can do what Jobs does. I own several apple products, but I am by no means a "fan boy", and i do not believe Jobs is the second coming of christ.

He is a visionary. Who else can invent things that change the world and convince people they need them?

All I am saying is I wouldn't bet on the succession on being successful.


The same can be said for Bershire and Buffet. At least Munger will be around but no one does what warren can do.

I dont invest for fun. I speculate for fun with a small amount of cash.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

bean438 said:


> I speculate for fun with a small amount of cash.


I think that's what the OP is doing -- investing the equivalent cost of an iPhone and a MacBook Pro.

I agree that Jobs took Apple to where it is now, but I also think they're on solid enough footing and have a strong enough pipeline of ideas and products that they should be able to continue their momentum.

I don't think they'll maintain their lead in the phone market, but it's going to take a long time for anyone to catch up to them on tablets (on price alone they have everyone beat by a long shot; nobody's been able to offer a similar feature set at the same price), and during that time they are going to build a huge base. The iPad is going to be ubiquitous -- it's getting snatched up by corporations, schools, hospitals, universities, interior designers, you name it. They sold 15 million last year and I wouldn't be surprised if sales double this year with iPad 2, provided they can keep up with demand (which so far they are unable to do, in part because of the crisis in Japan).


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

For sure there are things in the pipeline. Ipad3 is being developed as we speak I am sure.

I just wouldnt count on anything spectacular once it runs dry and if/when Jobs is gone.

Apple will just become another electronics company selling commodity type products.

Jobs is the moat.


As for ipads I didnt see the big deal until a friend of mine won an ipad at a social (manitoba thing. It really is something spectacular.


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## ripcord (Mar 15, 2011)

*Jobs' health*



brad said:


> And yet if you were Steve Jobs and you knew your days were numbered, wouldn't you do everything in your power to ensure that your legacy is in good hands? Apple foundered in the past without Jobs, but he was ousted suddenly. Now he has had a few years to prepare for his ultimate departure (which of course we hope doesn't happen anytime soon but everyone's mortal) and you can bet that he's spent a lot of time getting the company ready to go on without him.
> 
> It's true that few people understand consumers the way he does -- Apple has never held focus groups or done market research; they don't need to with Jobs at the helm. But I suspect he has "infected" enough leaders in the company with his philosphy and vision that they've got it too.
> 
> ...


Steve's health has been in question for quite a few years now and every time he takes a leave of absence, the stock drops. You'd think the board would want to disconnect their value from Steve's health yet they've done nothing to prove to us that Apple can survive without him. All it would take is Steve introducing some new product which was created by someone else in the company, but he wants the spotlight. I'm not saying he wants it for a bad reason but there are good reasons why he should be actively promoting that Apple has other visionaries.

They don't and I have to wonder why. All they're doing is reinforcing that Steve = Apple.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I like gadgets and my iPhone is probably the coolest one I've ever owned by far, and I credit that to Steve's vision.

I read about what's coming, and I plan to buy an Android next. Jobs made smartphones mainstream but now the rest have seen the light and Jobs is no longer envisioning Apple's future products. Google has caught up and is blowing on by.

iPad also paved the way for tablets, but now the others have caught up with less restrictive more capable devices for a better price. Typically Apple is a niche brand and I think that is what they will be

I wish I bought Apple at $8 but right now I think there is better growth potential elsewhere, such as the mobile processors and components. I recently grabbed some at a bargain


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

ripcord said:


> Steve's health has been in question for quite a few years now and every time he takes a leave of absence, the stock drops. You'd think the board would want to disconnect their value from Steve's health yet they've done nothing to prove to us that Apple can survive without him. All it would take is Steve introducing some new product which was created by someone else in the company, but he wants the spotlight. I'm not saying he wants it for a bad reason but there are good reasons why he should be actively promoting that Apple has other visionaries.
> 
> They don't and I have to wonder why. All they're doing is reinforcing that Steve = Apple.



It is what it is.

Steve=Apple


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

There may be a shortage of parts for the new iPad II as a result of plant closings in Japan. This could result in supply shortages for the foreseeable future.

Google 'Apple Parts Shortage'


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

And you thought there were lineups for ipads before the quake?

I cant imagine. Might be a good idea to grab some ipads and put them on ebay,


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

bean438 said:


> I cant imagine. Might be a good idea to grab some ipads and put them on ebay,


Hmm, looks like some are making out like bandits.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-iPad-2-Wi..._Tablets&hash=item336616af0e&autorefresh=true


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## Betzy (Feb 7, 2011)

Argonaut said:


> Hmm, looks like some are making out like bandits.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-iPad-2-Wi..._Tablets&hash=item336616af0e&autorefresh=true


That's just crazy, I am totally not ever needing to be the first to buy anything, unless it was an amazing IPO, why pay a premium for some time. Well all the power to the ones who are getting these impatient buyers!


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

Absolutely crazy. Watch, they will sell.

I could never figure out ebay, and why people will pay more for something. You can order direct from apple for much less.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Lots of people like Apples stock.

I don't. I don't like RIM, either.

There are way too many possibilities.

Someone said that they would NOT trade Apple, but would hold it for the longer term. I disagree. Buy it now, sell it after sales of the iPhone 5 have been confirmed, and then never touch it again.

The iPhone 5 will probably be the last big hit for Apple, then the other competitors will catch up, and Google will eat them for breakfast. I have owned a 3G, 3GS, and currently own an iPhone 4. I must say, Apple has the worst products I've ever used in my life. The only reason I purchase the phones is because no other phone has been that advanced... YET. But they are coming. Oh boy, are they coming. And what will Apple do then? Especially with Jobs probably gone by that point...

I could be wrong, but I rather lose an opportunity, than lose my money. 
Buy Apple for the short term only, make some money off of it, then buy yourself your "dream items".


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## buaya (Jan 7, 2011)

*Apple*

Apple has a cult like following. It is also one of the few tech company that controls both the software and hardware that it makes. RIM does that too.
When Microsoft was eating their lunch in the PC market, and the Board was so desperate that they brought in CEO's to replace Job, nothing works. But, even then those of use who uses the Mac for our work knows how good that PC was compared to those that uses Windows. We we willing to pay a high premium to buy and use them.
Present day.
1. When Jobs came back, he was a changed person (listen to his speech at Stanford). He knows that he was too arrogrant in the past. 
2. When he took his first medical leave of absence, the stock went up 60%.
3. Tell me which product launch has people queuing up overnight for them.
4. Even though Ipad does not support flash, it still has so many apps designed for it. That is one thing that Steve Jobs seems to be able to get away with. He can exclude things in his products and the general public still buys them. For example, in his first Imac design, there was no 3.5" floppy disk and this was when everyone uses them. He said to his distractors, get over it, it is a dying medium. In a year or so after, all new PC's do not have them too.
Google's Android is not even in the same ballpark. The only reason it is the widely used is because other smartphone manufacturers licensed it to use. Their only competitor is Windows Mobile and we know how many software developers like Microsoft. Google makes money from their search engine. When you use Android in your smartphones, the search engine and ads is where they make their money from, not the actual phones or tablets.
RIM has only one chance to make sure that the playbook works. Other tablets manufacturers are just putting out an oversized smartphone. RIM is not doing that as they bought a software company in order to make sure that it is not an oversized blackberry. 
If the launch of the playbook is well received, it will make RIM a player too, but it's market share will always be behinds Apple.


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## moneymusing (Apr 3, 2009)

It might be just me, but the 7" tablet just doesn't compare with the 10". I'm not confident that the RIM playbook will be a competitor. They have no consumer marketplace and would have to compete with not only iPad but also Kindle. In the corporate world many companies are moving to virtual desktop infrastructure that enable their employees to use the hardware they desire, and connect securely to their networks. The strangle hold on corporations is loosening for RIM, I would say this is a strong point for other tablet competitors.

Apple is really the only company that stands to lose, where Google and Microsoft stand to win. Apple wouldn't be long term hold for me. As KaeJS said, trade the rumor on iPhone 5 might work though.


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## buaya (Jan 7, 2011)

Compare the earnings per share of these 3 companies.
Like I said, Apple is always able to command a high premium for their products. Their followers are almost cult like. This is also due to the fact that they do make superior products. Their PC's (imacs etc) has always performed better.
Even though Adobe do now sell more of their CS for the windows PC's, they perform better on the Mac system. Amid all the hoopla of the iphones, ipads etc, Apple has increased their share of the PC market even though their Macbook cost almost twice as much as some laptops.
I am not counting out Google and Microsoft. Both these companies have huge R&D labs with unlimited resources to come up with "the next best thing". Unfortunately, in my opinion, Microsoft these days, seems to be unable to come up with new innovations. After so many tries at the gaming market, they finally came up with the Kinnect game which is good, but the Wi has already had a big headstart. I am waiting for Google to come up with something.
In the tech world, when you have the latest and the best, you command a premium in price. Your competitors, when they start to come up with some thing similar, will have to lower their pricing to yours, have smaller margins, and now have to fight with others for a piece of whatever remains of the market.


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

here's a strategy for Apple stock, if you believe Apple's fortunes is closely tied to Jobs and that Jobs is seriously sick and may not be around
stk is trading at around $340 right now
sell it short immediately.
use 100 shares as example.
you get $34,000 cash immediately.
let us ignore commissions
then to hedge your position, buy a Jan 2013 CALL for a $400 strike.
based on current market quotes that will cost you $42.25 so a total of $4,225
NOW to offset some of that cost AND to guarantee your short cover, also sell a Jan 2013 PUT for a $250 strike.
that's trading at $23.50 right now so it nets you $2,350.
your immediate cash balance = 34000 + 2350 - 4225 = $32,125
Not bad.

possible outcomes from now until Jan 2013:

stk climbes to $400 or beyond on Jan 2013: in this case exercise your call, get the shares and close your position for a loss of 7,800

stk falls to $250: you'll probably get putted, take the shares and cover your position for a net profit.
even if you don't get putted, you can easily cover for a profit.

stk falls but not to $250: cover your position for profit anyway

stk doesn't move: unlikely but in this case your profit or loss will be small in either case.

i see good possibility if you believe Apple is tied to Jobs and stock will have massive sell off if his sickness worsens or he succumbs

good luck


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

^ Talk about* risk*.

Sounds like a dumb idea to me.
What if jobs ends up being fine, and the iphone 5 sales are killer?
Then you're screwed.

And the OP obviously does not have $34,000.


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Sounds like a dumb idea to me.
> What if jobs ends up being fine, and the iphone 5 sales are killer?
> Then you're screwed.


No, you are not...that's what the CALL option is for.
it limits your downside risk.
never ever short a stk without some sort of hedge.

there is risk in either direction of your investment.
what if you buy (go long) and stk tanks?
similar consequences.



> And the OP obviously does not have $34,000.


the 100 shares was just an example.
imho there's no point in wasting your time if you won't even do 100 shares of a company (well, Berkshire aside  )
if you are gonna play something, do it in a way that you can make some half decent return.
else just buy an etf or mutual fund.

the strategy i suggested allows you to do it, limits your downside, and gives you more upside than downside if your bet turns out in the right direction.


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