# Replacing roof



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Can somebody recommend company who changing roof (shingle) in GTA?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If you plan on keeping the house more than 5 - 10 years suggest you invest in a metal roof. Cost, approximately twice as much as shingles but life of 50 years vs 10 - 15 for shingles. I know the shingle companies say they last longer than that. They are lying.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> If you plan on keeping the house more than 5 - 10 years suggest you invest in a metal roof. Cost, approximately twice as much as shingles but life of 50 years vs 10 - 15 for shingles. I know the shingle companies say they last longer than that. *They are lying*.


I hope not. I just replaced my shingles, plywoood sheathing, and insulation last year..mucho bucks! Top quality Certainteed shingles. 

The roofers form indicated 50 year manufacturers warranty on the shingles and the roofer warrants the workmanship for 10 years.

I won't be around to collect on the 50 year warranty, but expect the shingles to last at least 20 years, maybe longer.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Be careful.

Many roofing contractors offer wonderful warranties. Problem is that some of them fold, change names, and re-establish themselves as a new, numbered company every year or two. This 'new' corporate entity is of course not liable for past commitments/warranties.

The manufacturer product warranty is pro rated, probably does not cover any labour component, and could be voided by improper application.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

They will last a lot longer than the asphalt based shingles of yesteryear carv
Most of the products being sold is a fiberglass compressed(these are much more durable.its like a fiberglass mat)
Obvious though we live in a capitalistic business society so the companies who make shingles(many companies listed on the exchange)want to have repeat business!
Just the way it is
All building products are like that somewhat to be fair!they want to sell.
Canada is a sob with climate though!Roofs take a beating more because of the 4 seasons.....always will be like that.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Many roofing contractors offer wonderful warranties. Problem is that some of them fold, change names, and re-establish themselves as a new, numbered company every year or two.


 This is why I'm looking for solid company... Checking homestar.com, buy would appreciate if somebody can recommend,,,,


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## jaybee (Nov 28, 2014)

One annoying thing with a metal roof. The snow slides off the damn things and piles up in front of the front door, and garage door or whatever. Not a huge deal, but PITA nonetheless.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

We were impressed with Waterproofing Roofing - but you'd need your roof to be in the Lethbridge area to use them :upset:
They actually have an office, a showroom, they train and keep their staff in the off-season, etc. 
GAF sends an inspector around after-the-fact to ensure the shingles & job were done properly. 
There are too many 'rusty truck crews' out there


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I happen to be a 3rd generation contractor(I do roofing have mentioned it before on the forum)
I don't say this because I work with my father but target family run roofing contractors
Generally this is a good advice in all areas of contracting imo
A good % of contractors are family owned businesses that are family owed 
They might not be the cheapest but you will generally be well taken care of because reputation is at the forefront
I have roofing jobs that my grandfather and dad did 25 yrs prior 
Obvious I am pro family business but these outfits are usually the best gibor(that goes for a lot of service/construction type services)
My take on not hiring a 'rusty' truck
You also should have family and friends who can advise with word of mouth.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> If you plan on keeping the house more than 5 - 10 years suggest you invest in a metal roof. Cost, approximately twice as much as shingles but life of 50 years vs 10 - 15 for shingles. I know the shingle companies say they last longer than that. They are lying.


+1


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fraser said:


> Be careful.
> 
> Many roofing contractors offer wonderful warranties. Problem is that some of them fold, change names, and re-establish themselves as a new, numbered company every year or two. This 'new' corporate entity is of course not liable for past commitments/warranties.
> 
> The manufacturer product warranty is pro rated, probably does not cover any labour component, and could be voided by improper application.


Yes and yes. Fully aware that roofers come and go as time goes by. 

Tried to pick a roofer that has been in business for at least 10 years.

The prorated warranty is how they rate the grade of shingles..there are 15 yr "warranty" quality, 20/25 year "warranty quality" and longer.
The warranty in some cases is worthless, depending on installation.
I decided on the highest grade of shingle applied over proper ice guard material and "Certainteed diamond deck underlayment" on new 'blue" wood plywood sheathing
.
I also had the old friction fit batts removed and new 3 inch styrofoam panels installed as well as spray foam over that, so the insulation was a costly part of the roofing job.

I decided on the Certainteed shingle SureStart 5 star coverage which includes:

*NO PRORATED *COVERAGE, MATERIAL and LABOUR to REPLACE DAMAGED SHINGLES included in warranty, TEAR OFF (due to storms/high winds) protection included, Disposal and
workmanship fully guaranteed.

The firm I hired to do the job was BBB listed, also on HomeStars, and asked for NO MONEY DOWN until satisfied. 15+ years experience in the roofing business, and FULLY INSURED and Workmans Comp (WSIB) registered and good standing with them. Lots of satisfied customers (I checked on line) that gave good feedback. 
I did the same after the work was completed. 

The quality of roofing jobs, depends on the contractor, materials used and the existing roof that the new shingles are attached to.
If home owners try to save some money (cash in lieu of a bill to save on the tax), new layer of shingles applied over the old layer,
they will not have any recourse if something happens to the roof later on.

Most of the fly-by-night roofers will ask for some payment up front, and live from payment to payment, they will be out of business, bankrupt or for other reasons and good luck trying to get them back to fix anything.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

donald said:


> A good % of contractors are family owned businesses that are family owed
> They might not be the cheapest but you will generally be well taken care of because reputation is at the forefront
> I have roofing jobs that my grandfather and dad did 25 yrs prior



I have a flat roof and a mansard roof. The company that replaced my flat (membrane roof), 12 years ago, (also added a big ventilator), has been in business since 1895, 
trusted and reputable in my area.
They did a superb job. Called them back this year to add a second ventilator and check/seal around the metal flashings. 

The roofing contractor that did my mansard shingles and new insulation also has been in business in my area for a few years, member of the BBB and HomeStars. 

I wanted the job done right, since I plan to sell within 5 to 10 years and having the roof in good shape makes the house easier to sell.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If you think any shingle roof will last 50 years you are living in a dream world. I don't know what kind of "warranty" you have but good luck collecting on it.

I have seen those "fibreglass" shingles, I can tear them like wet cardboard. They are no better or longer lasting than the old shingles.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> You also should have family and friends who can advise with word of mouth.


 The problem is that everyone I know replaced their roofs recently... who knows what is gonna be in 5-10 years...
My neighbours now replacing roof with some Chinese company (probably the cheap one), I couldn't find even 1 review on the Web... the workers don't even speak English...
I'm planning to check Homestar companies with good ratings and get 3-4 quaotes ...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Chinese company....are you serious?
Most contractors are very local based(many operate in certain areas-most advertising is based in these areas)
There should be a few companies with offices/shops inside 60kms of your area/district
Not much different than how real estate agents operate
The 'rusty' truck guy is very 'overblown'
unless your a consumer who seeks out this individual
Gibor I would suggest getting 3 quotes and try to be home when the company salesman drops it off(explaining it)
If you have common sense it is very easy identifying who to avoid
Stay the hell away from the guy that shows up in a unmarked rusty half ton with a quote done on a napkin
Generally most people are decent at reading people at first blush----You should be able to tell straight away who to avoid!
If you ever notice the horror stories(like holmes on homes or something like that)
9 out of 10 times the homeowner is at fault because the red flags were starring them in the face yet they still went ahead(notice how they all say they should of trusted there gut instinct?)
It is really not that challenging to find a quality outfit
I don't know why people seem to let go of common sense when hiring contractors
not implying you but many have that fear yet make insane judgement when hiring based upon price alone.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

The best thing you can do is educate yourself about the roof you have so you understand what is talked about with estimates.

I can't speak to Ontario roofing due to the difference in climate from Vancouver.
Things we look at here, is the roof steep more complex, are we tearing off one layer or two or three, ridge venting, does it need new back-pans for chimney or skylights, are the barge boards OK.
Other things to check is the contractor insured, in good standing with workman compensation.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We had a shingle roof replaced on our Vancouver home. We used family firm, three generations. They did an excellent job. My wife took most of the estimates...I was often away on business. She was amazed at what some of the contractors tried to tell her.

In Calgary, we had a very large cedar shingle roof. One company told us the roof had to be replaced. $30-40k. Called a long estabished local firm. New Caps, 500 replacement singles and five year service contract for under $2,500. Sold in year 3....never had a problem. 

The firm that wanted to do the entire roof offered us the 'deal' because they were working in the area. Working at ripping people off more like!


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

That's why I made the first statement fraser.
We see it often.
Shingles if maintained and vented properly can last around 20-22 years.
We did a maintenance job in West Vancouver in the spring the lady bought the home from the original builder, it was tar & gravel she thought she had a couple of leaks and her father told her she needed a new roof. We went in and cleared a large area checked the seams nothing wrong other than resealing all the vents and removing moss. We told her as far as we were concerned she could get another 5-10 years on the roof but if she did notice a leak call and we will take care of it as we gave her a three year warranty for the maintenance work.

Ceder people think will last 40 years I've seen some that were 25 years old and looked great and others that were trashed. They need some maintenance along the way to remove moss and slime and reseal vents.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Absolutely.

When we had our shingle roof done in Vancouver the firm we used was the only one that upfront recommended more vents and priced them into the quote accordingly. And explained exactly why they were needed.

We had two layers on our roof so we wanted them removed. The highest quote was from a local roofer in New West. They were a little comical. The estimator spent two minutes on the roof. When my wife asked about removing the existing two layers the responses was no need. He said that they would just 'snip off' the curley bits. He gave her the quote, asked her to sign with the threat that if she did not the roof would not get done be done the winter. Sad but true. Fortunately this was not her first rodeo.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

We just finished two houses in East Van and are on the third all date back to 1915 all had three layers the first being ceder dump fee's alone were close to 700.00, these houses are about 35 sq. 
The interlock shingle that was down should have come off easily but were brittle falling apart just a mess and time consuming.
We won't put a second or third layer on any roof, we will walk away.
Roofs are engineered for load rating.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Prior to having our shingles done we got a book out of the local library that described the steps for do it yourself ears. We did not intend to do it...we just wanted to know what we should be looking for.

As I recall, we also got a VCR tape by Domtar that illustrated the steps etc. These both helped us understand what we were buying from a material and a labour perspective. 

Plus ,one of our neighbours had gone with a Sears roof and it was a disaster spread across months of subsequent repair, remediation, and poor service from Sears. Sears, at the time, simply subbed it out to the cheapest contractor that they could find regardless of the quality of workmanship. And this approach certainly showed up in the poor workmanship and cleanup.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Shingles if maintained and vented properly can last around 20-22 years.


 Our shingles roof is 15 years old.... so far didn't have any problems.... I just remembered that we probably need to replaced it as all our neighbors did...
When Chinese company replaced our neighbour roof, I asked him to take a look at our roof and he said that he sees light damage.... so I;m a bit concerned now ...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Multiply layers are a tricky situation from a contractors point of view(I generally stay a way from them for good reason because almost always strife is bound to happen)
The scrap is 3x(if you have a 35sq roof-105 bundles the scrap adds up to 105 sq-315 bundles!)each layer tends to bake to each other which makes giving a labour time estimate difficult it can make a grown man cry how tedious it can get and than when you do get to the original roof deck it usually has multiple problems with rot and rafters(weight load) but you can't quote on that if anything is needed until everything is exposed(also most flashings and exteriors have had work done performed at the 3rd layer which can make things very unsightly you can be a good 6 inches down from the existing roof line.
A lot of companies bid these jobs excessive because truthfully a lot don't want to be bothered and if they do land the job at a inflated price it at least has a healthy buffer
I sometimes wonder if the first homeowner who decided to roof over his existing realizes how much problems he creates it is like the start of a cycle that can saddle the eventual homeowner who has to bite the bullet and get it done


Also on repairs...Some companies don't like working on existing roofs because they than get tied to the entire roof and the client shifts all problems on said roofers shoulders(I have bitterly learned this)

Just a glimpse from the 'other' side of a contractors perspective.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Also on repairs...Some companies don't like working on existing roofs


 True. I found only 1 contractor with many good reviews on homestar who does repairs ... and some reviewers mentioned that repair price is included if later owner devides to replace whole roof


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Some roofs have multiply problems and the most pressing usually is a emergency repair
The problem is the next spring the owner/client has now loaded everything onto the repair roofer
as soon as a company touches anything(bill/charge/)homeowners tend to shift the entire roof with repair company

Hard to have a warranty.


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