# Manitoba is soaked



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

'Unprecedented' wet fall Manitoba weather hurts crops, puts flood fighters into action

Southern Manitoba has had a very wet month. The ground is completely soaked, and we just got a big snowfall. It looks unreal outside -- heavy, wet snow. And there are several more days of snow in the forecast. It's really nasty weather.

The level of moisture is a really big problem for the crops. The crops can't be harvested now in this snow, and there's a risk of freezing. Only 14% of soybeans have been harvested, and 60% of potatoes. Canola is behind schedule too... there's lots of risk now for the crops that are still in the field.

Winnipeg has the Red River Floodway, a measure to protect the city from flooding. Normally, the full flow of the Red River passes through Winnipeg. When there's a very heavy flow in the spring, the Red River can rise enough to flood the city. When the Floodway is activated, some water flow is diverted.

Now, for the *first time in history*, the Red River Floodway has been activated during the fall. The Red River's water levels are the highest since Environment Canada started keeping records in 1971.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Climate change is affecting crops and biodiversity around the world.

From rice paddies inundated with sea water, to drought and flood conditions in areas of food production, the negative effects of climate change are revealing themselves.

Farmers and fisherman have long known the climate is changing. Scientists have declared a climate emergency.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Once more, congratulations to Justin Trudeau for ending Global Warming. All those billions were well spent. His measures just need a little fine tuning.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Every weather event is an excuse for the usual suspects to whine about climate change.

The floodway has only been open since 1968 and Environment Canada only started tracking river levels in 1971. There is not enough history to make definitive claims such as "the first time in history".


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Every weather event is an excuse for the usual suspects to whine about climate change.
> 
> The floodway has only been open since 1968 and Environment Canada only started tracking river levels in 1971. There is not enough history to make definitive claims such as "the first time in history".


exaclement!
it reminds of one of our newspaper headlines here fro couple weeks ago
"Thousands March on Confederation Building To Demand Climate Change". LOL...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

James.......Manitoba has massive flooding, a level 5 super typhoon threatens Asia, and a wildfire erupted last night at 9 pm in California, ramped up immediately in size and intensity, jumped two freeways and now threatens Los Angeles. Thousands have evacuated during the night and 15 million people are under a Red Flag alert........15,000,000 people.

Imagine the kind of chaos that situation causes, with kids in daycare and schools, old folks in nursing homes and people in hospitals.

In a worse case scenario how do you move 15,000,000 people quickly ?

But hey...these are just normal "weather" events.

I am thinking some people rely totally on what anti-climate change nitwits tell them. 

The water is not there. The city is not burning. The storm is not smashing your homes. It is all a lefty scientist conspiracy............LOL.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

The worst flood in Manitoba history was in 1826.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wow........now southern Manitoba is getting snowed under.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/snow-storm-highways-schools-trees-manitoba-1.5317599


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Southern Manitoba has had a very wet month. The ground is completely soaked, and we just got a big snowfall. It looks unreal outside -- heavy, wet snow. And there are several more days of snow in the forecast. It's really nasty weather.


Very early taste of winter this year for sure. 

The heavy wet snow combined with many trees still having leaves on them has created serious power outages in the area.
https://www.hydro.mb.ca/outages/

Lets hope the weather gets better over the next few weeks or things could get real ugly here.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Early wet snow has affected the progress of harvesting in Western Canada as well: https://www.producer.com/2019/10/heavy-snow-leaves-southern-alta-farmers-scrambling/


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

the deadliest hurricane in history was The Great Hurricane of 1780 with over 22,000 deaths. 

The 1900 Galveston hurricane had maximum 102000 deaths. 

The 1974 Fifi hurricane had max 10,000 deaths.

so we see a downward trend. 

don't worry sags the carbon tax is reducing severe weather, I'm told.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> exaclement!
> it reminds of one of our newspaper headlines here fro couple weeks ago
> "Thousands March on Confederation Building To Demand Climate Change". LOL...


Was that a Newfie joke ?


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The government has our backs i.e., burn our food (ethanol) in the cooling part of the cycle which is when history has shown there is more likely to be famine. They are worried about global warming when the cycle is now cooling (there are cycles within cycles). By the time the cycle switches to global warming they will be worried about global cooling. The government never acts they react. The government are egotistical pigs they think they are more powerful then the sun. The sun's temp like everything vibrates. The government think they can control the temp of the earth with in .5 degrees lol


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> James.......Manitoba has massive flooding, a level 5 super typhoon threatens Asia, and a wildfire erupted last night at 9 pm in California, ramped up immediately in size and intensity, jumped two freeways and now threatens Los Angeles. Thousands have evacuated during the night and 15 million people are under a Red Flag alert........15,000,000 people.


All normal events that happen on a regular basis. 

California is a desert that burns on a regular basis. However, lack of maintenance by PG&E has led to trees interfering with power lines forcing them to deliberately shut off the power to prevent more fires. The issues with PG&E are well documented and have been known about for years and is something you could have found with a simple internet search.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Just like Hitler they are bringing out the children to promote their agenda. How can anyone argue with a child


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

pwm said:


> The worst flood in Manitoba history was in 1826.


The worst "recorded" flood.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Pluto said:


> the deadliest hurricane in history was The Great Hurricane of 1780 with over 22,000 deaths.
> 
> The 1900 Galveston hurricane had maximum 102000 deaths.
> 
> ...


The numbers of deaths were extreme in 1780 and 1900 because they didn't even know the hurricanes were coming and didn't build buildings to withstand them.

Today, the storms are tracked by satellite and millions of people are evacuated, or the death tolls would be far higher than they are.

The sustained wind speeds of storms are among the highest ever recorded, and they are intensifying over warmer water at a faster than normal pace.

There are 500 years storms happening almost every year.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

pwm said:


> The worst flood in Manitoba history was in 1826.


Right, this isn't a flood. It's a "ground is saturated" situation, which normally doesn't happen in the fall. However it could spell trouble for next spring (the thaw and flood risk), depending on how wet the ground is by winter.

pwm, what's Headingley looking like today? What do people mostly grow out there?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Prairie Guy said:


> The worst "recorded" flood.


Ya, still debating whether the ice age counted as a slow moving "flood" ... that would have been the worst in Manitoba.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

agent99 said:


> Was that a Newfie joke ?


...unfortunately no.....our news reporting & journalism here are a joke!...
If ANYONE can change the climate, I'm pretty sure its the NL Provincial Govt. !...
(BTW....you cant see me in that photo, but, I'm on the OTHER side of the road..marching in the OTHER direction...)


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

J4B, we've had ~ 20 cm of wet snow with strong winds. Crops around Headingley are mostly harvested, but it's very bad elsewhere. It was the wettest September on record. They grow canola, soybeans and wheat around here. Only 14% of soybeans are harvested, and only 35% of spuds. Losses will be in the 10's of millions $.

Looking out on my deck:


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ouch, those are huge losses. Similar view here where I live in the city.

Thankfully the wheat harvest completed, that's good news at least.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

cainvest said:


> Ya, still debating whether the ice age counted as a slow moving "flood" ... that would have been the worst in Manitoba.


Good one cainvest. Actually, to be completely correct you should have said "the  last ice age", since we are still in the warming phase from of the most recent one. It will be followed by another.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

pwm & others in MB, beware ... the heavy wet snow is coming in faster than MB Hydro can clear it.

There are more power outages coming. This is a full-on winter storm.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> There are 500 years storms happening almost every year.


That just proves that the people that designate 500 year storms got it wrong. Especially since accurate weather records are barely 100 years old.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> That just proves that the people that designate 500 year storms got it wrong. Especially since accurate weather records are barely 100 years old.


...I dont they had smartphones, ipads & twitter in 1419.....to record things "as they happen" as they do today....
they were prob. more concerned with heat, light & food for the next day....
people tend to forget that...
....go ahead, count to 1 billion.....see how far you get....


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Imagine, the movie The Day After Tomorrow becomes a reality ... :eek2:


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

If Manitoba had just been paying the carbon tax all these years, then it wouldn't have been wet. The more recent snow is double punishment. Ontario had better start paying or they're next.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It takes decades for emissions to rise to the upper atmosphere. It is going to get worse before it gets better.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

We lost power for 8 hrs from 16:00 to midnight. I was bailing water by hand from my sump pit for 8 straight hours as my 12v backup pump was useless. The pit is UNDER the lower level floor! I'm buying a generator ASAP.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

pwm said:


> We lost power for 8 hrs from 16:00 to midnight. I was bailing water by hand from my sump pit for 8 straight hours as my 12v backup pump was useless. The pit is UNDER the lower level floor! I'm buying a generator ASAP.


...feeling your pain, p......good luck!


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

pwm said:


> We lost power for 8 hrs from 16:00 to midnight. I was bailing water by hand from my sump pit for 8 straight hours as my 12v backup pump was useless. The pit is UNDER the lower level floor! I'm buying a generator ASAP.


Sure hope you can still find a generator, I bet they were selling like mad the past few days. A friend of mine has been without power for over two days now but has a 2Kw generator and a gas fireplace that is still working for heat.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Just took a look at the outage numbers, over 50,000 without power in Manitoba this morning.

Also, driving around last night there were so many trees fallen or hanging (blocking) roads right now it's crazy.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

A narrow 20 foot poplar in my yard was bent all the way to the ground from the snow and moisture. I knocked the snow off but the tree is so saturated with moisture that it had little effect. It doesn't help that the leaves are still on it. This morning it has begun to rebound but the top is still only 6 feet from the ground.

In spite of so many people without power it rarely lasts for long around here. Compare that to California where ineptness and lack of maintenance has forced them to deliberately shut the power off without a weather event as the main driver.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

pwm said:


> We lost power for 8 hrs from 16:00 to midnight. I was bailing water by hand from my sump pit for 8 straight hours as my 12v backup pump was useless. The pit is UNDER the lower level floor! I'm buying a generator ASAP.


pwn...go to Princess Auto buy one of these...https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/12v-2-000-gph-bilge-pump/A-p8197063e

It'll move water till you can buy a gen set.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

sags said:


> The numbers of deaths were extreme in 1780 and 1900 because they didn't even know the hurricanes were coming and didn't build buildings to withstand them.
> 
> Today, the storms are tracked by satellite and millions of people are evacuated, or the death tolls would be far higher than they are.


Occasionally you show signs of critical thinking. Now, if you could apply critical thinking to your own perspective, we'd get somewhere.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

pwm said:


> We lost power for 8 hrs from 16:00 to midnight. I was bailing water by hand from my sump pit for 8 straight hours as my 12v backup pump was useless. The pit is UNDER the lower level floor! I'm buying a generator ASAP.


Very sorry to hear that. This must have been just brutal.

Once you've got the generator, remember to beware of carbon monoxide. Might want to buy yourself a couple spare CO detector alarms to keep in living areas for safety.

Also good to keep a car adapter DC power inverter handy. Pretty cheap at Canadian Tire and will let you run all kinds of AC equipment off your car, assuming it doesn't draw too many amps.



cainvest said:


> Also, driving around last night there were so many trees fallen or hanging (blocking) roads right now it's crazy.


The situation with the trees is tragic. All the leaves are still on them, so they took the full weight of all that wet snow. I saw a fallen power line as well on my walk today.

I heard a report that there was significant damage to trees across Winnipeg since snowstorms like this typically never hit in the fall, before trees are bare.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Also good to keep a car adapter DC power inverter handy. Pretty cheap at Canadian Tire and will let you run all kinds of AC equipment off your car, assuming it doesn't draw too many amps.


Small, occasional charging off the car should be fine, like less than 300w but anything more would troublesome for a car at idle. Also make sure you use a pure sine wave inverter if you plan to use sensitive equipment. Actually the same goes for generators ... those non-inverter types can cause problems for many things in the household.




james4beach said:


> The situation with the trees is tragic. All the leaves are still on them, so they took the full weight of all that wet snow. I saw a fallen power line as well on my walk today.
> 
> I heard a report that there was significant damage to trees across Winnipeg since snowstorms like this typically never hit in the fall, before trees are bare.


Diriving around today there are many trees broken, some still laying on the roads. Most roads are fine now, either cleared or melted enough for most vehicles to get around. Power is up for all but about 4000 in Winnipeg with my friend still running his generator for the third day.

Now for the scary part ... took the dog out for a run today at the floodway and it very high, easily at high spring levels. Normally at this time of year the floodway is basically empty and we still haven't had all the run off from the snow yet.









With water levels this high it could spell big trouble in the spring of 2020, just like it started out in the '97 flood.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yup. Levels are very high and I can't believe they had to operate the Floodway. All we can do now is hope for some sunny, dry days to start drying out the earth. I also fear a big spring flood... let's hope not.

Regarding the inverters running out of the car, I think I was able to easily run loads up to about 100 W. Definitely enough to charge some accessories, run a laptop and other electronics. To make sure you don't risk draining the battery, press the gas and get the RPM up a bit so that the alternator is recharging the battery.

I agree that quality of AC output is an issue. I believe that the cheaper inverters (like those sub $100 Eliminator ones at Canadian tire) can only put out rough approximations of sine waves, probably some jagged square wave. I have used these with no issue for most electronics including powering laptops. However if there are really sensitive electronics, you might benefit from the pure sine wave type that cainvest mentioned. I think those are into a few hundred $.

For a while I ran a mobile office out of my car in Australia, including telecom and computer equipment. It worked pretty well except the inverter tended to overheat.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> However if there are really sensitive electronics, you might benefit from the pure sine wave type that cainvest mentioned. I think those are into a few hundred $.


The 1kw pure sine wave inverter at CDN tire has goes on sale fairly often.

Edit: For my backup I have a small solar/battery setup, just enough to keep the furnace, a few lights and maybe the fridge running if power goes out in the coldest months. I also have a couple of mid-sized UPS for my computer gear, phones and internet.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> The 1kw pure sine wave invverter at CDN tire has goes on sale fairly often.


Wow. This one? What kind of sale price does it usually go for?
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...-sine-wave-power-inverter-1000w-0111892p.html

Looks like a nice product. This would be fun to play with ... kind of crazy to think that with some basic solar panel equipment, battery banks, and one of these guys, you could wire up a cabin with off-the-grid AC power outlets.

Or in a big outage like the current one, run the car outside, feed the AC line into the house with a big power strip, and get quite a bit of usable power, all from very compact electronics instead of a big machine (well, the car is the big machine). A kilowatt goes a long way.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A question for people who know about cars:

Let's say you have one of these 1 KW inverters. If this is used at full power, say connected to a power strip with lots of AC equipment plugged in, it would draw 90 A from the car's 12 V system. That seems like a lot to draw out of the car!

Aren't those DC adapter plugs usually fused at around 10 A ? That would mean you're realistically limited to drawing around 100 watts off your inverter before you blow the fuse.

If you really wanted emergency power use of more like a few hundred watts of AC power, running off the car, how would you rig that up, and how much is reasonable for the alternator to handle? Even at 500 watts (half the capacity of this big inverter) you'd be drawing around 50 A from the car.

Somehow you need the fuse to allow that. Even if you weren't fused/limited, you also have to stay below a safe level for the alternator and battery system to handle. Curious what others think of this.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Looks like a nice product. This would be fun to play with ... kind of crazy to think that with some basic solar panel equipment, battery banks, and one of these guys, you could wire up a cabin with off-the-grid AC power outlets.
> 
> Or in a big outage like the current one, run the car outside, feed the AC line into the house with a big power strip, and get quite a bit of usable power, all from very compact electronics instead of a big machine (well, the car is the big machine). A kilowatt goes a long way.


A very very simple way is to charge a USB powerbank off your vehicle's battery. I have a SAE cable (battery tender cable) directly off all my vehicle's batteries and then a SAE to USB cable to charge my portable lithium powerbanks. All my portable electronics are USB charged now. I can also recharge AA/AAA etc batteries with a USB charger. I live off the motorbike for months at a time this way. I find a good battery bank is much better for providing stable portable power vs charging directly off the vehicle or using the vehicle's power management. If you do this you want a simple voltage indicator to watch the vehicle's battery health

Lots of DIY info on the net on how to wire a van for off grid solar. Many use an inverter to get AC but the inverter is a constant power draw so you want to keep it as small as possible and switch it off as often as possible. Considering most electronics are already DC powered (anything with a "power brick" is converting AC back to DC at a loss/heat) and you can buy any appliance in DC power (designed for off grid cabins, RVs, boats etc) ideally keep as many things on DC as possible. With modern lithium batteries and the efficiency of modern electronics it's getting very interesting. There are vans with 1000w solar setups now (overkill for most people)

This couple build some neat plug-and-play kits for lots of off grid applications


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> A question for people who know about cars:
> 
> Let's say you have one of these 1 KW inverters. If this is used at full power, say connected to a power strip with lots of AC equipment plugged in, it would draw 90 A from the car's 12 V system. That seems like a lot to draw out of the car!
> 
> ...


Running off a car is not a good idea and you'd need a direct to battery connection with short/heavy cables. Even then most vehicles would require you to bump the rpm to 2000+ to get any reasonable amps from the alternator.

If you really want heavy power ... get a generator, like this one
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/champion-2000w-portable-inverter-generator-0550329p.html#srp

And for that inverter you linked above, usually goes on sale for $199.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> This couple build some neat plug-and-play kits for lots of off grid applications


Off grid solar is a option, it really depends on how much power you need and when you need it. A small simple system will set you back $1200 CDN and you'd need to set it up yourself.

For emergencies, a small backup generator is still the cheapest option.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Maybe the cheapest short term but not necessarily if you look 5+ years out.

Nowadays the break even for solar system is 10 years or less in most applications. Factor in that $700 generator cost and it's more like 5 years and then free energy for years beyond that. In my experience Cdn Tire stuff is not the best so more like $1000+ for say a Honda generator. Not quite as interesting in Canada with our dark winters though, but I intend to spend winters where there is more sun.

Here's an interesting plug and ply kickstarter solar system that you just plug into your AC socket. Still I prefer a system designed for off grid from the start rather than relying on inefficient AC inverters


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Maybe the cheapest short term but not necessarily if you look 5+ years out.
> 
> Nowadays the break even for solar system is 10 years or less in most applications. Factor in that $700 generator cost and it's more like 5 years and then free energy for years beyond that. In my experience Cdn Tire stuff is not the best so more like $1000+ for say a Honda generator. Not quite as interesting in Canada with our dark winters though, but I intend to spend winters where there is more sun.
> 
> Here's an interesting plug and ply kickstarter solar system that you just plug into your AC socket. Still I prefer a system designed for off grid from the start rather than relying on inefficient AC inverters


That champion model at CDN tire (sold at many other places, like Costco) is a good unit. My friend has been using it camping for 5+ years now and has been powering some of his house with it for the past 4 days! 

I gather a 10 year payback is calculated with at a place with high electricity rates, maybe DIY installation and gov rebates, not manitoba. I like solar and look into upgrading to a bigger system every few years but it's still not cost effective here. 

Also, that kickstarter "plug and play" you linked too is illegal here, check your local codes to see how you have to wire it properly.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm looking at the Champion 3550W/4450W which is on sale at Canadian Tire now. Looks like the size I would need to power my sump pump. As I expected, they are out of stock now, but maybe I can get a rain check. I downloaded the manual and came upon an issue I was not expecting. It says that you need to ground the generator by connecting it to a copper stake to provide reference ground. I did not know this would be required. This is from the manual:

_A ground terminal connected to the frame of the generator has
been provided (see Controls and Features for terminal location).
For remote grounding, connect of a length of heavy gauge
(12 AWG minimum) copper wire between the generator ground
terminal and a copper rod driven into the ground. We strongly
recommend that you consult with a qualified electrician to
ensure compliance with local electrical codes._

Anyone with experience using generators care to comment?
Thanks in advance.

Just an afterthought. Maybe the grounding stake is only required if the generator is connected to house power via a transfer switch.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

pwm said:


> Just an afterthought. Maybe the grounding stake is only required if the generator is connected to house power via a transfer switch.


^^ This


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks. Doing more reading it looks like there are 2 ways to connect to a transfer switch. If I understand this correctly, with a "Separately Derived System" (SDS) the generator's neutral is not bonded to the house neutral and therefore the generator needs to have it's own ground connection. With a Non SDS, connection, the generator's neutral IS bonded with the house neutral, and therefore does not require it's own grounding.

Am I understanding this correctly?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

pwm said:


> Thanks. Doing more reading it looks like there are 2 ways to connect to a transfer switch. If I understand this correctly, with a "Separately Derived System" (SDS) the generator's neutral is not bonded to the house neutral and therefore the generator needs to have it's own ground connection. With a Non SDS, connection, the generator's neutral IS bonded with the house neutral, and therefore does not require it's own grounding.
> 
> Am I understanding this correctly?


If you're just powering units with plugs (sump pump, etc) from an extension cord there aren't any real concerns. Now if you're planning on wiring it (or otherwise connecting) to the house's electrical wiring as a full backup system then a licensed electrician is required.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks. I would just be running a cable through a basement window down to the sump pump which is my primary concern. Any extra power for lights etc. would just be a bonus. I'm not considering any connection to the house wiring through a transfer switch.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Also, that kickstarter "plug and play" you linked too is illegal here, check your local codes to see how you have to wire it properly.


Did you look at it? The main benefit of it is supposed to be that it is not wired in. It just plugs into the AC outlet. They claim it pays for itself in 3 years (maybe in US where they have way more sun)

I'm more interested in a proper off-grid setup but I've followed that development for years because I have some of their car products (they make the best OBD readers)


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Did you look at it? The main benefit of it is supposed to be that it is not wired in. It just plugs into the AC outlet. They claim it pays for itself in 3 years (maybe in US where they have way more sun)


Yup, took a quick read-through and didn't see anything special there. The big problem is plugging it into any outlet in your home, a major code violation up here as far as I know. Of course if you want to find out for sure, check your local building codes. 

Their website doesn't seem to contain much detailed information on their setup, more of just a sales pitch. Also they require you to purchase you own batteries, did they include the cost of the batteries in their ROI calculation? They also use up to 0.35 cents per kwh for the electricity cost, Manitoba is currently 0.082 cents per kwh. They are likely including goverment incentives in their ROI (they have that listed on their website) and you'd have to check to see what is available in your area for that.



m3s said:


> I'm more interested in a proper off-grid setup but I've followed that development for years because I have some of their car products (they make the best OBD readers)


There is lots of real world info for off-grid, including real prices, time to install, etc, on the web. Check out some of those systems and see if it works for you.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Still people without power across Manitoba and a state of emergency has been declared. Naturally you can't buy a generator now, but I ordered one from Canadian Tire. The Champion 4450/3550. Now I'm deciding on what extension cords to get. I will have a total run of ~60' to the sump pump. I'm planning on starting with a 25' 10 gauge connected to the L5-30R receptacle, and then 35' of 12 gauge from there. (I'm assuming that 16 gauge cord would not be adequate.) The pump draws 4 amps continuous and 9.5 amps at startup. I know you can burn out a motor running it on too low a voltage so I found a Voltage Drop Calculator (www.calculator.net) which show me the following:

25' of 10 gauge at 9.5 amps = .047v drop or 0.40%
35' of 12 gauge at 9.5 amps = 1.06v drop or 0.88%
Total drop = 1.53v or 1.28% with a final voltage of 118.49v at startup. Less at continuous 4 amps..

Does anyone know if this is within acceptable limits for a 1/3 hp sump pump? How well do these motors tolerate a voltage drop like this?

edit: From what I have read, voltage drop should never be more than 3%, so I think I should be OK.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

You should good with that pwm. A couple of points about having an emergency generator.
- make sure the first cord is long enough to get into the house. 
- keep cords in a heated place as some of them can be real stiff when it gets cold out.
- have a good entry point for the extension cord, you don't want to keep a door open to run the cord through.

You can check princess auto as they sometimes run good deals on heavy extension cords.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, cainvest. I have already done my measurements and planned my generator placement, and house cable entry strategy. The first cord will go through a basement window which hinges on the top. I just ordered my cords from Amazon. I'll be getting some 91 octane fuel tomorrow for my snow blower which I always store with STA-BIL added. Now I will have another potential use that fuel.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The power outages sound really bad. Many first nations communities have been evacuated, and I think some are living in the Convention Centre downtown. The reports are that some of the communities have been absolutely destroyed. Already weak infrastructure to begin with, and now an incredible amount of tree damage. Very sad.

Some equipment and assistance even being brought in from Minnesota.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Nice pwm ... now just hope you don't have to use it this winter!


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

My generator arrived at Canadian Tire yesterday. I strung my extension cord in the crawl space, and did a test run of the sump pump. I also bought one of the Kill-a-Watt knock offs to test the current draw and voltage at the sump pump. The generator puts out ~ 121 volts and I'm getting 118.7 at the end of the 60' cable. (25' of 10 gauge and 35' of 12 gauge), the current draw while running was ~ 5 volts. I'm pretty sure that the voltage drop of ~ 3 volts is not a problem. The pump worked just as it does on main line current.

The test meter I got is this one: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07CZXJ867/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It works fine, and highly recommended.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

That's good news pwm! I've been thinking of getting one of those power meters, handy little gadgets IMO.

I gather you mean 5 amps not volts on the current draw right?

Plan on using the generator for anything else emergency wise if you lose power during the winter months?


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

My mistake. 5 amps of course. It looks like it would also power my freezer and second fridge which are downstairs nearby if we have an extremely long outage. Some lighting would be nice if the power fails at night. The power fails most often during a summer thunderstorm, or winter blizzard. Frustrating because my daughter lives < 1 km away and she never has any problems.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Winter blizzard or ice storms are my main concerns. I always have some reserve power on standby for the furnace but it wouldn't last me too long.

Power grids are a weird thing, some areas are terrible while others a block away are fine.


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