# Mawer vs PH&N vs Steadyhand



## familyman (Apr 6, 2015)

Hi guys, I'm new to investing but have read for many hours on the different ways to invest and was wondering what is everybody's opinions on these 3 companies. They seem to be well spoken of and rated well on morningstar and was thinking of investing $25K with either of these 3 companies, and possibly another $25K by the end of the year. I'm not currently interested in ETF's or the coach potato way as I am not confident enough to be picking my own stocks and don't mind paying a fee as long as the MER is not too high.

I am looking for a higher yield even if it involves more risk, and would be leaving the money there for at least a few years.

Which company would you guys recommend and which funds in particular? Also, would it make sense to try 2 companies and invest let's say $25K with each one to see which one does better?

Any advice would be really appreciated!


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

familyman said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to investing ... _ thinking of investing $25K with either of these 3 companies, and possibly another $25K by the end of the year ... I am looking for a higher yield even if it involves more risk ... Whiich company would you guys recommend and which funds in particular?_


_


ok you did say "any advice" so i'll try this message, although i'm fairly sure it won't be what you'd like to hear.

here we have a new investor starting out with small careful personal savings, with a self-admitted entry level of knowledge plus a request that strangers on an anonymous chat board are to pick his investments for him.

then he says he's looking for higher yield with more risk!

this profile clashes for me. It's an oxymoron. The way i see things, the only way to raise risk tolerance is to increase knowledge. The most effective way to gain knowledge is to buy real securities & live with them through a period of time. Book knowledge is helpful but doesn't cut the entire biscuit imho.

many folks in cmf have been delighted with the Mawer balanced fund. You could also go with steadyhand, i'd probably pick their small-cap fund because it's not small/small/ultra-small cap. It has mid-sized companies as well, the manager simply looks for good long-term value. But if trying this fund, it would be important imho for a new investor to place roughly half his money in a GIC ladder, in order to arrive at a balanced portfolio.

sorry i'm leaving out PH & N because i don't know beans about them.

may i suggest forget risk & forget higher yield for the time being. Although the above-mentioned are fairly conservative approaches, they do have risk. Everything, after all, has risk. What will work for you is to allow the risk - or its opposite, which is opportunity - to speak to you directly, with its own voice, by making a small sample investment. You don't even have to commit the entire $25k. But, once invested, you will start to hear the authentic risk voice speaking._


----------



## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

The minimum amount for Mawer is $50k - unless it has changed very recently.

I use both Mawer and PHN - I know nothing about Steadyhand.

If I was forced to choose only one, I would stay with Mawer only because of RBC's involvement with PHN. I can foresee the day when the PHN name disappears completely.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

MAW104 minimum in a TD SDRSP is $5k. We have several accs holding it.

Familyman - Hoping you are considering your $25k+$25k investments within the context of an overall financial plan, that includes your TSFA, RRSP, unregistered account intentions, consumer debt, etc. 
I note that you mention "leaving the money there for at least a few years" - depending on your intentions for the money and your flexibility on when you need to access it, these funds may or may not be well suited?


----------



## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

I have 90% of our registered and non registered investments in just two Mawer MFs ( tax effective and balanced) and I am very happy with their performance. Low MERs, competent management and relatively low risk with good profits. Most importantly I don't have to worry about rebalancing, frequent selling and buying with their associated fees or trying to time the market. It's all taken care for me with reasonable fees and I'm good to go


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

familyman said:


> I am looking for a higher yield even if it involves more risk, and would be leaving the money there for at least a few years.
> 
> Which company would you guys recommend and which funds in particular? Also, would it make sense to try 2 companies and invest let's say $25K with each one to see which one does better?


I agree with humble_pie's comments generally. I wil be even more blunt in saying 'higher yield even if it involves more risk, and leaving the money for at least a few years' is an oxymoron. That is contrdictory. If you are going to reach for yield, you are at the very minimum going to have greater volatility, and by definition probalby means you need to consider leaving the funds in these investments for a 10+ year horizon in these investments. There is no assurrance that you won't be underwater in a major correction (bear market) for at least 5 years.

If you have done your homework on Morningstar, you can see historical performance for itself, including costs (MER) to own between the companies. There is no guarantee of future performance. I'd suggest you pick one of the companies and run with it as you really don't have enough money to spread around in multiple accounts yet.


----------



## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I have Mawer. Very pleased.

But, we have almost all of our investments managed by PHN. Very pleased with their service and the results.

So far I have not seen much change since the RBC acquisition. We still have the same investment team, services are the same. If anything, RBC has added a few options to the PHN portfolio. The only changes so far have been a relocation of their Calgary office. They just switched over to the RBC computer system in November. I prefer their previous statement formats but that is a small issue.

I get the Steadyhand emails but have had no dealings with them.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> this profile clashes for me. It's an oxymoron. The way i see things, the only way to raise risk tolerance is to increase knowledge. The most effective way to gain knowledge is to buy real securities & live with them through a period of time. Book knowledge is helpful but doesn't cut the entire biscuit imho.
> 
> Everything, after all, has risk. What will work for you is to allow the risk - or its opposite, which is opportunity - to speak to you directly, with its own voice, by making a small sample investment. You don't even have to commit the entire $25k. But, once invested, you will start to hear the authentic risk voice speaking.


I agree with HP's comment +1.

As with others, I like and hold Mawer Balanced (MAW104) - but be aware that you can buy Mawer Balanced - Tax Effective (MAW105) for non-reg accounts. Same fund, but deals with distributions differently.


----------



## familyman (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks for you honesty guys, I really do appreciate it. In fact, I've probably read 50+ hours on investing in stocks and have been following the market almost daily for about half a year and even have an self-directed investors edge account with CIBC and have done some transactions, but haven't really gotten my feet too wet. I don't know, does that still make me a new investor? What would a moderate investor look like? I guess it's all relative...

The reason why I came to ask a forum is simply for the fact that it's hard to know who you can trust in the financial world, since they would all try to push their products. A while back I went to the bank to start an RESP and the advisor helping me spoke to me only about CIBC Mutual Funds with an MER of 2.25% and quite low returns. Never once did he even mention another company. Even though it's not "professional investment adivce", I still wouldn't mind hearing some other more neutral opinions from people who are passionate about investing. 

I've read quite a bit about the Mawer 104 as well, and I know that if you go directly to them you need to have $50K but if you use a broker it's $5K. Is there a place to find a list of the brokers and if there is, what type of fee's/hidden costs are there for using their service as opposed to going with Mawer directly? I know the Mawer website says they don't have commissions and are no-load if you deal with them directly. Also, is the money locked in in any way, shape or form, or do you have access to this money when you want it?

Thanks again for your response guys.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

familyman said:


> Is there a place to find a list of the brokers and if there is, what type of fee's/hidden costs are there for using their service as opposed to going with Mawer directly? I know the Mawer website says they don't have commissions and are no-load if you deal with them directly. .


I suggest that you contact them - let them know who you are and ask your questions directly - ask them how you can access their funds, and what fees to expect - they respond quickly

http://www.mawer.com/contact-us/

PS: check their blog too...http://www.mawer.com/knowledge-centre/mawer-blog/too-polite-for-our-own-good/


----------



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Also agreed with HP's comments.

I think the Mawer Balanced Fund is good for folks who, to quote the OP are "not currently interested in ETF's or the coach potato way."

You have an all-in-one product right here:
http://www.mawer.com/mutual-funds/fund-profiles/mawer-balanced-fund/

I'm not a big fan of balanced funds myself since you could invest very similar to Mawer or other balanced funds using a couple of ETFs and save 75% (or more) of the money management costs.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

familyman said:


> I've read quite a bit about the Mawer 104 as well, and I know that if you go directly to them you need to have $50K but if you use a broker it's $5K. Is there a place to find a list of the brokers and if there is, what type of fee's/hidden costs are there for using their service as opposed to going with Mawer directly? I know the Mawer website says they don't have commissions and are no-load if you deal with them directly. Also, is the money locked in in any way, shape or form, or do you have access to this money when you want it?


Best that I know is there is no lock on any money in traditional open ended mutual funds. There might be an early redemption penalty for, as an example, holding the fund less than 90 days. As suggested, the prospectus, or a phone call to Mawer directly will give you the answers.

Since you are with CIBC Investor's Edge, you need to ask them by phone (or do a test purchase, i.e. stop before you confirm a purchase) whether they will sell you Mawer mutual funds. Not all discount brokers will because there is no trailer fee in it for them. IIRC, RBC DI is one discount brokerage that will not sell you Mawer funds (perhaps because they compete with their own PH&N, and/or their D series funds, and/or there is no trailer fee).

FWIW, virtually all big bank discount brokers are approximately the same when it comes to fees, so if you are alreaday with CIBC Investor's Edge, that will do just fine (subject to the caveat above).


----------



## umlowcn (Mar 29, 2015)

For those with TDDI, since the subsequent purchase of Mawer funds is 1K, how often do you add money to the funds?


----------



## familyman (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks guys, I'll give them a call as soon as I get the chance. 

Another question I have is, currently I hold a regular TFSA account, a RESP account, and a TFSA Investor's Edge with CIBC. If I end up buying a Mawer mutual fund, do I have to set up a new TFSA account with them or can I buy the fund and place it into the TFSA account at CIBC? Might seem like an elementary question but not something you generally find info about online so I thought I'd ask directly...


----------



## familyman (Apr 6, 2015)

@ My Own Advisor: Could you give me a few examples of these ETF's? And from your experience, how much work on your part is required to invest this way? (obviously MER's are there for a reason, so there can be another head managing the investment so I don't have to devote all my time to it)


----------



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Sure...!

When I look at this all-in-one product right here:
http://www.mawer.com/mutual-funds/fu...balanced-fund/

I see roughly:
31% fixed income. It gets that via this fund:
Mawer Canadian Bond Fund Series O - it holds a mix of federal, provincial and corporate bonds.	

You could get similar results via XBB ETF. The MER for XBB is 0.33% and not 0.84% for Mawer 

Then, for your CDN equities put about 30-40% of your portfolio in VCN or XIC. That's spending 0.05% MER and not close to 1% like Mawer.

Lastly, you need some U.S. and International content. Put the remaining 30-40% of your portfolio in VXC, an "all world" ETF. It will cost you about 0.45-0.50% MER to own the ETF in your RRSP; because of withholding taxes, but that's still much cheaper than 1% for Mawer.

So, there you go.

For 3 ETFs (XBB + VCN or XIC + VXC), and re-balancing once per year by adding new money and buying "low" and what is not in favour, you have your own DIY Mawer Balanced Fund for a fraction of the cost.

Just my take


----------



## PharmD (Dec 21, 2011)

I have dealt directly with Steadyhand for about three years and I honestly have nothing, but good things to say about them. Any reasonably balanced portfolio over the duration of their history (admittedly short) has exceed it's benchmarks; the have clear and helpful reporting; they are great with giving advice. All you have to do it pick up the phone and dial. They actually have a document on their website comparing the experience with them versus and ETF investor. So people might quibble with a few details, but as someone who really struggles to not make constant changes to my Questrade account I think there is a lot of value in having someone there to support you. The "behaviour gap" is huge and everyone thinks that it doesn't effect them, but it almost certainly does.

The minimum to deal directly with them is a little high and I find that because their funds don't fall exclusively in the normal categories they are hard to compare to anything except the benchmarks, but other than that I give them top marks.


----------



## canucked_up (Feb 23, 2014)

familyman said:


> Thanks guys, I'll give them a call as soon as I get the chance.
> 
> Another question I have is, currently I hold a regular TFSA account, a RESP account, and a TFSA Investor's Edge with CIBC. If I end up buying a Mawer mutual fund, do I have to set up a new TFSA account with them or can I buy the fund and place it into the TFSA account at CIBC? Might seem like an elementary question but not something you generally find info about online so I thought I'd ask directly...


I have purchased Mawer in the past in my InvEdge RRSP; no charges, no load, no problem. If you want mutual funds in your InvEdge TFSA, you should ideally have the cash inside this TFSA and purchase using that account. I don't know your situation, but be careful if you have to move money to do this, in re over-contributions.


----------



## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I purchased Mawer Balanced Fund MAW104 2 years ago and like the idea of it being invested in units of the other Mawer Funds. MER is pretty low for a Balanced Fund, my intial purchase was done with Investors Edge allowing just 5K to get in instead of 50k depending on the route taken. The fund returned 12.1% last year.


----------



## umlowcn (Mar 29, 2015)

newfoundlander61 said:


> I purchased Mawer Balanced Fund MAW104 2 years ago and like the idea of it being invested in units of the other Mawer Funds. MER is pretty low for a Balanced Fund, my intial purchase was done with Investors Edge allowing just 5K to get in instead of 50k depending on the route taken. The fund returned 12.1% last year.


I know the subsequent purchase is 1K. How often do you contribute to your Mawer balance fund? Thanks.


----------



## familyman (Apr 6, 2015)

My Own Advisor said:


> Sure...!
> 
> When I look at this all-in-one product right here:
> http://www.mawer.com/mutual-funds/fu...balanced-fund/
> ...


Thanks for this. I think it's great when you finally get the confidence to cut lose and hold on the reigns of your own investment horse 

I was looking at something though at CIBC that seems pretty similar. It's called the CIBC Nasdaq Index Fund. The returns are fantastic if you can tolerate the high risk (40% for 2 years, 28.7% for 3 years, 23.3% for 5 years). MER is normally 1.26, BUT, if you invest $50,000, they bump you to the premium class and the MER is 0.39% for the same thing. Pretty comparable, no?


----------



## familyman (Apr 6, 2015)

@canucked_up: Thanks for the warning. I don't have any money in there right now, so I should be fine. Although with the new TFSA limits supposed to be going up $11 000 per year, and with my wife also not having any in hers just yet, I think there's plenty of room to play with


----------



## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Weekly purchases, I figure over time the average NAVPS will be lower. Took this years allowable TFSA room, divided it by the number of weeks and came up with a weekly purchase amount. Maybe I over thought a little how to do this, but its nice for our household budget instead of putting in the entire amount in one shot. Once your intial investment of $5k is done you can do as little as you want I think, globe and mail info shows Subsequent: Zero, so I am guessing depending on the broker used it is their min? Year to date fund is at 8.08%, which I am very happy with.


----------



## umlowcn (Mar 29, 2015)

newfoundlander61 said:


> Weekly purchases, I figure over time the average NAVPS will be lower. Took this years allowable TFSA room, divided it by the number of weeks and came up with a weekly purchase amount. Maybe I over thought a little how to do this, but its nice for our household budget instead of putting in the entire amount in one shot. Once your intial investment of $5k is done you can do as little as you want I think, globe and mail info shows Subsequent: Zero, so I am guessing depending on the broker used it is their min? Year to date fund is at 8.08%, which I am very happy with.


I see. With TD DI and CIBC IE, the subsequent purchase is 1K.


----------

