# Pool tables?



## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Just wondering your thoughts on pools tables. 
I'd like to buy one,,but am suffering overload. Every retailer says they are "the best" because the brands they sell are "the best". 

My local used market has tables that are in poor shape. 

I'd like to buy new, and I just want a decent table without breaking the bank. 

Brunswick is supposedly good, but half of their tables are imports, which doesn't have to mean bad, so long as they are spec'd properly. 

Most things we buy have a "sweet spot" meaning you reach a price point where the extra money spent doesn't translate into a proportionate increase in quality. 

Where is the sweets pot for a pool table?

Brands I am considering are brunswick, Connelly , and olhausen. 


Thanks


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

My thoughts ... there's more to consider than the brand ... sure, choose a brand assuming it'll be slate, flat, etc. ... then there's the cloth, rails, cushions, cues, balls options. Was looking at tables, asked about e.g. cloth upgrade ... the knowledgeable retailers eyes immediately lit up as she proceeded to discuss different cloth, cushions, balls ... maybe next winter :smile:

So ... my opinion, a meets minimum requirements Brunswick, whatever, properly optioned can provide a much better experience than a so called high end ($$$s) table.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Brunswick offers budget, and high end tables. I'm not sure where the sweets pot is.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

What I'm saying is, a brand name table, minimum requirement 3/4' slate, may be a good starting point for you ... then you discuss/select the options, e.g. if you prefer a slow table then choose that cloth; if you prefer a fast table, then choose that cloth ... and so on ... e.g, some ball types are not compatible with some cloth types. If you can find a knowledgeable shop, they will set you up with your particular "sweet spot".


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Aside from the furniture side of tables (the fancy wood work, etc) I believe it's a get what you pay for situation. I looked into getting a 6x12 many years back and the best deal I could get was buying used (from a pool hall) but they always needed work (new cloth/bumpers). The moving/setup cost was also a bit high from what I remember, likely not a big deal for small tables. For a sweet spot it really depends on how serious you are but don't cheap out on the slate and what supports it, that you'll likely regret.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I would recommend a three piece slate, as the pieces are bloody heavy...the other thing to consider is they take up a lot of space...

That being said, mine is a dufferin, but that company went bust years ago...made great tables and cues though.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

I know what to look for per say I just don't know who to believe in terms of "best". 

Each manufacturers has the best slate the best construction, best cushions, best method to attach the cushions, the best rubber, etc. 

Some say there slate is from a better country, and finished better than the rest. 

Some say the knock down construction is better and yet the one piece frame manufacturers say theirs is better. 

Connolly says they are actually made in the USA while brunswick doesn't even make tables they import from china. 

The guys who import from china say they are better because they spec out higher the the rest. 

China doesn't necessarily mean bad. You scan spec out bad quality locally. 

Not sure if my post makes sense? 

I'm thinking it's like comparing cars. They are all the same, yet different. They all have a good better, best product range.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Yup, it's tough to determine what really matters, especially from most sales guys.

What size of table are you looking for? 

You can compare the construction to tables in pool halls and if you like those tables, find out the model (if still available) they bought. Anything but the lower end tables will likely make you happy, again, depending on how serious a player you are. There might be some pool table related forums on the web, worth a look anyways.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

There really isn't a lot on the internet. Not a lot of table reviews other than retailers who obviously push their own tables. 

I'm surprised there isn't much on the web. I thought pool was pretty popular. There is way more internet info available in musical instruments, which to me has way less people who are into it. 

I think I'm just researching too much. If I stick to a local dealer and buy a mid priced table I should be ok. At least they have a brick and mortar store if I need to get "in their face"


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

praire_guy said:


> There really isn't a lot on the internet. Not a lot of table reviews other than retailers who obviously push their own tables.
> 
> I'm surprised there isn't much on the web. I thought pool was pretty popular. There is way more internet info available in musical instruments, which to me has way less people who are into it.


Pool is fairly popular, little less than a few decades ago IMO but it's mainly been a pool hall business, not so much owning your own table.



praire_guy said:


> I think I'm just researching too much. If I stick to a local dealer and buy a mid priced table I should be ok. At least they have a brick and mortar store if I need to get "in their face"


Sounds like a wise move. I see AVO is still in business here, they were around long ago when I was looking at a table but I've never actually bought anything from them.


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## 6811 (Jan 1, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Pool is fairly popular, little less than a few decades ago IMO but it's mainly been a pool hall business, not so much owning your own table.


I suspect, like me, most people do not have the space to properly set up a pool table in their homes. If it weren't for the pillar set in the middle of my basement, the only room large enough at my place, I might have bought one long ago


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

6811 said:


> I suspect, like me, most people do not have the space to properly set up a pool table in their homes. If it weren't for the pillar set in the middle of my basement, the only room large enough at my place, I might have bought one long ago


Very true and would be an additional cost to move the telepost(s) and sturdy up the beam, if it's even possible at all for some homes.
It was worse for me as my fav game was snooker on a 6x12, would have taken up most of my basement.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

AVO is pretty much the only game in town. 

I have room for a 4-1/2 by 9, but the tables I am looking at only come in a four foot size. 

Avo is a brunswick and olhausen dealer, both of which kinda don't tell you everything, I.e some of their tables are imports. Not that it's a bad thing but why not be upfront about it?

Chinese made can actually be good, so long as you spec out quality components. 

AVO is also a Conolly table dealer, but they don't advertise it. I like Connolly. All 100% USA made! and info about all!features on all!the I tables. 

Brunswick touts,the 12 advantages but they don't apply to contender tables. Seems like they are hiding something.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Ohhh, that used Titan at AVO looks nice and it's a 9' table!  Judging by the style it looks to be pool hall grade but that's just a guess.

I believe there used to be two others ... Game Room (?) close to polo park and I don't remember what the other one was, probably gone by now though.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

The Titan is a commercial table. I actually went to the U of M student lounge to check out the Titan tables. The one at Avo is in pieces, and hard to visualize what it looks like. It looks good, and solid. 

It's on my short list. Can invest do you know who makes the Titan table? Avo includes delivery, instalation and new felt with that Titan. 

My room is 16 by 32 except half the room is home theater, so I have 16 by 16 right now, but I can slide furniture for pool time. Actually the furniture separates the space but I'm sure a pool cue wouldn't hit it even if I didn't move it. 

Should I pull the pin on the Titan? 

What do you think about brunswick or Connolly tables?

There was a game room in polo park, and kildonan place. They sold duffer in tables, but they are long gone.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

That's a tough call as to who make it, searches didn't turn up anything concrete. There were a few references to Dufferin (and titan), which is now out of business, but it appears they made high quality tables. If that used one at AVO is a commercial grade table, I'd be serious about it but still would confirm with them on the specs/original branding. BTW, does it look the same as the picture on their website?

You might be able to save a few bucks picking up a used table privately but for $2800 delivered/installed and with new felt, it sounds pretty good if it's in good shape. I don't know enough about the tables they are selling nowadays but I would guess they all make some pretty good ones as long as you stay away from the lower end stuff. Just thinking about how much use/abuse goes on the commercial tables at Bourbon street billiards and they held very well over they years.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

It's a crappy picture of the Titan. I have a better pic I took at the u of m. 

I am really thinking of a Connolly table. Avo is a dealer. I think brunswick and olhausen are poorly made. 

Check out this website:

http://www.dkbilliards.com

He is a Connolly dealer so obviously he is biased , BUT if you click on his blog, he has tons of pictures of instals. Look at the build quality of brunswick, olhausen, and Connolly. 

Connolly wins, plus they are North American built, and for less money. 

I wonder if there is less margin and that's why Connolly is not stocked at AVO, and has to be ordered in? 

Can invest if you have the time, check out what I'm talking about. Especially the pictures of the olhausen and Connolly legs, and how they attach to the frame. 

What other reason other than more profit does AVO have for stocking obviously inferior quality tables?

Bad company, or just someone trying to make a buck?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Took a quick look but didn't see anything really (do you have a direct link?) but if you like Connolly by all means go for that brand. 

As far as AVO stocking one brand vs another, who knows ... worth asking them though. Maybe they have limited space, Connolly requires a minimum stock setup or people just tend to buy names they know? As far as inferior quality goes, that's a judgement call ... just try to be sure that the one you're buying is of the quality you want.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

http://www.dkbilliards.com/blog/2012/03/quality-slate-pool-table-orange-county/

That link isn't about Connolly but this particular stores import brand. At least he's upfront about his tables being imports (he sells Connolly too). 
Notice the better construction than the "American " made brunswick. 
And.... He backs up what he says with pictures. 

Surely AVO knows their "American" made brunswick a are Chinese made inferior product?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

praire_guy said:


> http://www.dkbilliards.com/blog/2012/03/quality-slate-pool-table-orange-county/
> 
> That link isn't about Connolly but this particular stores import brand. At least he's upfront about his tables being imports (he sells Connolly too).
> Notice the better construction than the "American " made brunswick.
> ...


Honestly, what he says there means very little to me. Is one really better than the other and do you need to get the upgraded brunswick to have a truely level surface ... couldn't tell you. At a minimum, if you were able to play on the tables to see if "one is more level than the other" that might tell you but I'd bet you'd still be guessing which one is better. Is that the bottom of the line Brunswick, he does say they offer an upgraded 1" slate and additional framing, so you decide if you want to pay for it and if it's needed.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

The contender is the bottom of the line brunswick "American made" table, which is made in China. 

What this guy says means a whole lot. It's not what he says, but the fact that he backs up what he says with photos. 

Looking at the photos of a contender brunswick table and a Connolly table it is clear , even without any writing that Connolly is better built. 

The brunswick dealers will say (according to dk billiards) is that Connolly is unnesecarily overbuilt. 

I'll end up going with Connolly. 

AVO can order in one for me. I think they don't advertise Connolly is either the fact there is more margin on brunswick and olhausen, or their agreement says they can't promote other brands to be a brunswick dealer.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

praire_guy said:


> Looking at the photos of a contender brunswick table and a Connolly table it is clear , even without any writing that Connolly is better built.
> 
> The brunswick dealers will say (according to dk billiards) is that Connolly is unnesecarily overbuilt.


And thanks the point, unnecessarily overbuilt or not ... you'll never know with taking actual measurements. To me it's just FUD marketing because they don't back up the argument with "actual measurements". So how do the prices compare for the same build of Connelly vs Brunswick, both with full support and heavier slate? Might also be interesting to see how that used Titan was built, does it have extra supports/thicker slate?


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Connolly tables in the brunswick contender range are "better" built , if thicker, beefier framing is better. The leg to frame attachment is also more solid. 

I don't know about the more expensive brunswick tables, as they are out of my price range. From the few pictures I have seen, I think the connoly is still better built. 


I didn't look underneath the Titan as I wasn't as informed at that point. I think another trip to the u of m is in order.


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