# Canadian Money Forum Versus Financial Wisdom Forum?



## Money Muffin (Oct 3, 2019)

They both appear to cover the same ground?
The only difference I can see if that Canadian Money Forum is more popular?


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Money Muffin said:


> Canadian Money Forum is more popular?


Based on what metric?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> Based on what metric?


Based on how many posts a day MrMatt makes of course.
Is there another metric that really matters?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

MrMatt said:


> Based on how many posts a day MrMatt makes of course.
> Is there another metric that really matters?


*MMMM* = Mr Matt Matters Metric.

ltr


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> *MMMM* = Mr Matt Matters Metric.
> 
> ltr


And it's one M more than MMM usurping Mr Money Moustache


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

Money Muffin said:


> They both appear to cover the same ground?
> The only difference I can see if that Canadian Money Forum is more popular?


One can get dominated by hot button topics that have nothing to do with finances/money. The other keeps those in a separate category.
One gets spam because initial posts aren't vetted. The other doesn't.
One has advertising. The other doesn't.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I like both for different reasons.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I like CMF (most of time) because it doesn't have or claim to have Wisdom 😁


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Do people here at CMF still think we benefit from having political discussions? As moderators, we currently permit political posts but at times I think we should not allow any of it. Financial Wisdom Forum and PersonalFinanceCanada don't have political threads. Neither does the Rational Reminder community.

One might say that we get a broader range of discussions here at CMF because political posts are allowed. On the other hand, many of those discussions aren't very useful, and seem to be the same old arguments and talking points every time.


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

moderator2 said:


> On the other hand, many of those discussions aren't very useful, and seem to be the same old arguments and talking points every time.


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## Fain (Oct 11, 2009)

Both are losing hard to discord channels. As are most forums. The Metric Stats on this website I bet have gone down a lot.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

moderator2 said:


> Do people here at CMF still think we benefit from having political discussions? As moderators, we currently permit political posts but at times I think we should not allow any of it. Financial Wisdom Forum and PersonalFinanceCanada don't have political threads. Neither does the Rational Reminder community.


I vote for eliminating political threads. It's why I like FWF. Those political discussions always rapidly degenerate into a **** fight between two individuals and nothing useful is said, so I stop monitoring the thread.

You should post a new poll.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

moderator2 said:


> Do people here at CMF still think we benefit from having political discussions? As moderators, we currently permit political posts but at times I think we should not allow any of it. Financial Wisdom Forum and PersonalFinanceCanada don't have political threads. Neither does the Rational Reminder community.


FWF (Financial Wisdom Forum) has always had political discussions, but they are limited to a specific forum category heading called WaterCooler. This category is hidden until you specifically enable it in settings. No political talk is allowed in anywhere but in WaterCooler.

This way, the members or the general public perusing the forum don't have to be exposed to any political talk unless they want to. Some people love political talk and at the same time are valuable participants in investment topics. There are many days that there just isn't much to talk about in investing, so it's a valuable tool to keep people around.

I don't think it's wise to curb people's free speech. There's enough of that going around these days. If you don't like political talk, uncheck the box. Forums aren't as popular as they use to be with the advent of Reddit. I wouldn't encourage further reduction of membership.

ltr


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

I have used both locations. FWF limits political discussions to the water cooler section. I think the FWF moderators are to quick to classify something as political. Some topics by their very nature have a political dimension ie federal budget, covid border controls, vaccines etc. I personally believe the FWF has a distinct political bias and it shows up in their decisions.. Even though I agree that the political discussions can sidetrack a discussion I much prefer Canadian Money Forum. I believe in freedom of speech and discussion and Canadian Money Forum is much superior in this regard.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Fain said:


> Both are losing hard to discord channels. As are most forums. The Metric Stats on this website I bet have gone down a lot.


I had never heard of "discord channels". How many here have? Looked it up. Seems like invite only groups.

Maybe Discord is similar to some closed group Facebook sites? I imagine FB are the most popular. We used to have mailing lists - they were closed and like Discord required invites. Or Reddit where you have to join groups, (but some groups are then kind of wide open!)

For Canadian financial, there are also several groups of interest at Investors Village. Many also require individual membership and don't allow political discussion.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> I had never heard of "discord channels". How many here have?


Discord is mostly used for quick discussions and real time communications.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

moderator2 said:


> Do people here at CMF still think we benefit from having political discussions? As moderators, we currently permit political posts but at times I think we should not allow any of it.


I don't have a problem with political discussions being here. But I think moderation could be a lot better. Quickly move anything political to the "cooler". And if, as too often happens, posters add political content to an otherwise non-political discussion, delete the post and show why. If this seems like too much trouble you could ban political posts altogether, but you will still have to monitor for them and delete, so not much different.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

moderator2 said:


> Do people here at CMF still think we benefit from having political discussions? As moderators, we currently permit political posts but at times I think we should not allow any of it. Financial Wisdom Forum and PersonalFinanceCanada don't have political threads. Neither does the Rational Reminder community.
> 
> One might say that we get a broader range of discussions here at CMF because political posts are allowed. On the other hand, many of those discussions aren't very useful, and seem to be the same old arguments and talking points every time.


 Politicians are the biggest destroyers of the money world. It was not covid that killed the world economy it was government. The dictators have destroyed lives. When dealing with money it is good to keep an eye on what they are up to.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I like and read them both.
More sources to learn from the better to stock toolbox. 

Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

agent99 said:


> I had never heard of "discord channels". How many here have? Looked it up. Seems like invite only groups.
> 
> Maybe Discord is similar to some closed group Facebook sites? I imagine FB are the most popular. We used to have mailing lists - they were closed and like Discord required invites. Or Reddit where you have to join groups, (but some groups are then kind of wide open!)
> 
> For Canadian financial, there are also several groups of interest at Investors Village. Many also require individual membership and don't allow political discussion.


I used to say that most discussion has moved on from the forums to subreddits

Most subreddits now have created discord channels and most real discussion has moved there. This forum has like a dozen active users.

Facebook is mostly for an older generation that seem to get offended by any reference to them


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

I was not aware of Financial Wisdom Forum. I just joined since I have lots of time on my hands and I like to read. Looks interesting.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

mehhh...nobody ( read "me") reads the political threads any more, now that trump is outta the picture...
and the canadian ones? well, who cares?


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I use discord, follow a few blog and vlogs, read the subreddits on occasion and visit FWF and CWF daily. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. In isolation none offers up everything I need in a convenient package.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

M3s
Facebook for older generation?? Wow, I almost missed it altogether

What are "real discussions" ?? Those not suitable for public viewing?


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

like_to_retire said:


> I don't think it's wise to curb people's free speech. There's enough of that going around these days. If you don't like political talk, uncheck the box. Forums aren't as popular as they use to be with the advent of Reddit.


I've got news for you, free speech is restricted on all of these platforms (including here) because you simply can't say _anything_ you feel like.

Following your free speech comment, you said Reddit is popular. Take a look at Reddit's PersonalFinanceCanada threads... how many political discussions do you find? Can you even find a single mention of 'liberal' or 'conservative' ?

Maybe Reddit is doing it the right way, with their stricter approach?


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

I use to engage in political discussions but they always degenerate into the same bs that got Trump banned from Twitter and Parler closed down.

You can see that in any discussion about Covid too because that eventually get you tangled up with Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers.


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## Fain (Oct 11, 2009)

cainvest said:


> Discord is mostly used for quick discussions and real time communications.


Depends on the channel. I've seen many used as a deep dive into the company's fundamentals. I like Reddit and Discord more as it's a lot more detailed and finance-oriented individuals. This forum has a lot of older nonfinance industry types and the debate is more focused on ETFs vs Advisor, MERs, frugality but not so much on anDD on specific companies.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Fain said:


> Depends on the channel. I've seen many used as a deep dive into the company's fundamentals. I like Reddit and Discord more as it's a lot more detailed and finance-oriented individuals. This forum has a lot of older nonfinance industry types and the debate is more focused on ETFs vs Advisor, MERs, frugality but not so much on anDD on specific companies.


Do you have some channels you would reccommend?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Other forums that I frequent allow political discussions but are pretty strict about threads remaining on-topic. So derailing a thread on a mostly non-political topic with political discussion either gets deleted or moved to a catch-all politics thread.


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

andrewf said:


> Other forums that I frequent allow political discussions but are pretty strict about threads remaining on-topic. So derailing a thread on a mostly non-political topic with political discussion either gets deleted or moved to a catch-all politics thread.


I like the sound of this. In the case of political posts taking a thread off topic, do those political *posts* get deleted, or does the whole thread get deleted?

I feel like political discussions at CMF are currently nicely isolated out into their own threads. I would think that a person who doesn't like those topics can simply ignore those political threads.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The posts. Locking threads willy-nilly is just going to chase people away.


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## 307169 (May 24, 2015)

The problem is that everything can become political, for example, I started this thread which is political by nature, but its subject also have massive impact on our personal finance. If this is the case, should there be a special treatment for this thread ?


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

moderator2 said:


> I like the sound of this. In the case of political posts taking a thread off topic, do those political *posts* get deleted, or does the whole thread get deleted?
> 
> I feel like political discussions at CMF are currently nicely isolated out into their own threads. I would think that a person who doesn't like those topics can simply ignore those political threads.


This makes perfect sense. If a person doesn't like those discussions they have the right to ignore them. Too often the problem with FWF is the moderators would let their own personal views take over especially if the discussion was going against their own views. They will take issue with this but I am am fairly certain I am correct.


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## Money Muffin (Oct 3, 2019)

Thank you everyone, the reason I asked was I that posted similarly on both forums, and I quickly found out the most informative and enthusiastic posters were generally on the Canadian Money Forum and not on the Financial Wisdom Forum (note that I focus on personal financial considerations first and foremost).

As to politics and economics, clearly it’s inevitable that it will be integrated into threads. Why? Because there is no question whatsoever that economics and philosophy are two sides of the same coin, and that politics is a reflection of that same damn coin.

As to my views on Canadian politics, I basically argue that on a global-socio-economic basis, Canada is pretty much irrelevant, given it's marginal position relative to the USA and Western Europe, and now of course Asia. In other words, Canada does not have an independent fiscal policy or monetary policy (at least not particularly) despite domestic corporate media hype, despite domestic pundits, despite domestic politicization of circumstances which are really global in nature, despite the Bank of Canada's policies, etc


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## Money Muffin (Oct 3, 2019)

BTW how the hell do I simply bookmark this thread so I can get email notices of additional posts?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Money Muffin said:


> BTW how the hell do I simply bookmark this thread so I can get email notices of additional posts?


At the top right corner of the web page (on desktop) there is a button for 'follow'. You can select whether it emails you or not.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Money Muffin said:


> Thank you everyone, the reason I asked was I that posted similarly on both forums, and I quickly found out the most informative and enthusiastic posters were generally on the Canadian Money Forum and not on the Financial Wisdom Forum (note that I focus on personal financial considerations first and foremost).


I looked at your 5 posts on FWF. Given my participation there since almost its inception in Feb 2005, and with all due respect, none of the subjects you raised are meaty enough to motivate discussion and debate there. 

The content of the two forums is actually quite a bit different if you look at it holistically with more depth in subject matter debated in a more professional way by more professionals like Dan Hallett, Norm Rothery, Bruce Cohen, Justin Bender and James Hymas. Their financial wiki (finiki) continues to grow and quite a few members are also members of their US sister forum - Bogleheads. Nonsense is called and challenged sooner too. Each forum has its place. Leave it at that.

There was some discussion at an earlier time on this subject CMF vs FWF vs ER.org ?


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## Money Muffin (Oct 3, 2019)

andrewf said:


> At the top right corner of the web page (on desktop) there is a button for 'follow'. You can select whether it emails you or not.


I had to click unfollow (as I already was following it and assumed it would email me which of course it did not) and then re-click it when it renamed itself as follow and then choose email notifications, rather lame / awkward!


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## Money Muffin (Oct 3, 2019)

AltaRed said:


> I looked at your 5 posts on FWF. Given my participation there since almost its inception in Feb 2005, and with all due respect, none of the subjects you raised are meaty enough to motivate discussion and debate there.
> 
> The content of the two forums is actually quite a bit different if you look at it holistically with more depth in subject matter debated in a more professional way by more professionals like Dan Hallett, Norm Rothery, Bruce Cohen, Justin Bender and James Hymas. Their financial wiki (finiki) continues to grow and quite a few members are also members of their US sister forum - Bogleheads. Nonsense is called and challenged sooner too. Each forum has its place. Leave it at that.
> 
> There was some discussion at an earlier time on this subject CMF vs FWF vs ER.org ?


It's great to hear from you again Alta buddy, and please excuse my ignorance and possibly silly questions!

1. I would not take offense as per my subjects' meat. I simply noted higher quality / quantity responses with Canadian Money Forum (at least that's how it appeared to me). Please understand that my assessments were in the context only by caparison to my equivalent posts on the two forums and nothing else. I made no comment and have no views in any other sense when comparing the two (some of which you have expounded on). So no attempts on my part were instituted to elicit debate or particular depth. I don't have any great desire to do that, being a Random Walker / Efficient Marketer / Malkiel Disciple my path to financial righteousness is one of understated glory without any need to adhere to unsubstantiated belief systems.

2. "Nonsense is called and challenged sooner too." Which forum are you referring to?

3. "Each forum has its place." What would their places be, if I might ask?

4. "…if you look at it holistically with more depth in subject matter debated in a more professional way by more professionals like Dan Hallett, Norm Rothery, Bruce Cohen, Justin Bender and James Hymas." "Which forum are you referring to?

5. "Their financial wiki (finiki) continues to grow…" Do you mean the people you mentioned?

6. "…are also members of their US sister forum - Bogleheads." Yes I have been a passive international indexer for decades, and I am a Boglehead, I just do not post much there, if at all, or anywhere else much in the context of finances.

7. To put it most succinctly, it would be nice to know which of the two I'm likely to benefit most from, as I'm disinclined to post the same thing on both forums, and in any case that can be construed as poor internet etiquette.

8. I have listened to all of Justin Bender's podcasts a number of times, they get pretty obsessive but I've learned a lot, good while driving or drowning out my lovely wife!


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Money Muffin said:


> 1. I simply noted the higher quality / quantity of the responses with Canadian Money Forum


Quantity maybe, quality - well, that's debatable.



Money Muffin said:


> 2. "Nonsense is called and challenged sooner too." Which forum are you referring to?


FWF.



Money Muffin said:


> 3. "Each forum has its place." What would their places be, if I might ask?


Both are unique. Again, one is quantity, the other quality.



Money Muffin said:


> 4. "…if you look at it holistically with more depth in subject matter debated in a more professional way by more professionals like Dan Hallett, Norm Rothery, Bruce Cohen, Justin Bender and James Hymas." "Which forum are you referring to?


FWF



Money Muffin said:


> 5. "Their financial wiki (finiki) continues to grow…" Do you mean the people you mentioned?








finiki, the Canadian financial wiki







www.finiki.org








Money Muffin said:


> 7. To put it most succinctly, it would be nice to know which of the two I'm likely to benefit most from, as I'm disinclined to post the same thing on both forums, and in any case that can be construed as poor internet etiquette.


Not in this case. Each will provide a unique view.


ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

As LTR posted. Personally, I like what I call the higher signal to noise ratio on financial matters at FWF better and better moderation. My view is financial forums are intended to be first and foremost a place for 'Financial Knowledge and Education'. 

All other subject matter is noise that probably should be filtered out (there are other social media platforms for such noise) but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and even I participate too much in some non-financial quicksand. C'est la vie. We individually participate where and when we prefer. Life goes on.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

You cant beat CMF if you are interested in covid, vaccines or JT. Also good if interested in investments that dont keep pace with inflation 

Sorry - cant take this discussion seriously.🤡

When I first started out with DIY investing, I did find Shakespeare's primer a big help. He still has a site, it seems Shakesprimer.com. Could still be useful, but he doesn't update it. Probably still a good place for newer investors to learn.
added: Altared added new address below. or can be accessed directly here; Shakespeare's Canadian Investments


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Shakespeare's Primer has a new home....


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

I agree that on strictly investing content the FWF has solid people. One must understand that to many of the FWF posters are ETF people and have little patience with other approaches . Once a person gets into other discussions the strong Liberal slant of the controllers reveals itself and there isn't much room for a conservative point of view. I like this forum much better from that standpoint. It is also has a leaning liberal in content but I give them credit when it comes to free speech and avoiding PC censorship.


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## jessc (Nov 11, 2017)

moderator2 said:


> I've got news for you, free speech is restricted on all of these platforms (including here) because you simply can't say _anything_ you feel like.
> 
> Following your free speech comment, you said Reddit is popular. Take a look at Reddit's PersonalFinanceCanada threads... how many political discussions do you find? Can you even find a single mention of 'liberal' or 'conservative' ?
> 
> Maybe Reddit is doing it the right way, with their stricter approach?


Reddit's most unique feature is a sub for just about any topic imaginable. No need to talk politics in the carpentry sub because there is a political sub for that.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

jessc said:


> Reddit's most unique feature is a sub for just about any topic imaginable. No need to talk politics in the carpentry sub because there is a political sub for that.


Reddit is too huge. It feels like talking with completely random people you can't build a rapport with.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> Reddit is too huge. It feels like talking with completely random people you can't build a rapport with.


And I like the small CMF community. I've actually met two people from here in person. We've gone around walking and talking about markets and career things.


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