# Gold



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Sold some gold today. We went to the jeweler we use to have DW's ring repaired. One man shop. Does good work.

He sorts and weights the gold. 10 and 14K. Gives us the refinery spot rate less 15 percent. Much better than those retail jewelry shops that offer to buy for next to nothing. Bits and pieces that we no longer wanted. Cufflinks, necklaces, single earings, rings,etc. 

My guess going in was $750. DW's guess was $900. We were both wrong. Just under $2100. We were pleasantly surprised. Gold is high, dollar is weak. Good time to get shot of things we no longer need or want.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> My guess going in was $750. DW's guess was $900. We were both wrong. Just under $2100. We were pleasantly surprised. Gold is high, dollar is weak. Good time to get shot of things we no longer need or want.


That's great news, congrats! And a testament to how gold holds value in the long term. You can have gold coins or jewelry from a grandparent or great grandmother, and it will still be valuable today.

Here's a chart of the price of gold in CAD since the year 2000. It's done just fine at holding its value and I anticipate that gold will continue to preserve its value for the rest of our lifetimes.

Nearly 20% of my net worth is in gold.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Nearly 20% of my net worth is in gold.


Real metal or paper?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Real metal or paper?


A bit of both (some using ETFs)


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## vas_u4t (Feb 23, 2021)

Is physical gold (coins, collectibles like Montreal Olympics) taxable when you sell? I mean do you have to pay capital gains on it?


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

vas_u4t said:


> Is physical gold (coins, collectibles like Montreal Olympics) taxable when you sell? I mean do you have to pay capital gains on it?


if you sell gold for cash and minus the inflation I doubt there was any profits made. So no profit, no income tax.


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## vas_u4t (Feb 23, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> if you sell gold for cash and minus the inflation I doubt there was any profits made. So no profit, no income tax.


Thank you.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Nearly 20% of my net worth is in gold.


Wow, really?
That's quite a large chunk.
Would you not rather get paid interest or dividends instead of just hoping for capital appreciation?


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

As Warren Buffet says it is a boom and bust lump that just sits there and produces nothing and pays no dividends. Cagr over 105 yrs , 1.2%/yr .


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

vas_u4t said:


> Is physical gold (coins, collectibles like Montreal Olympics) taxable when you sell? I mean do you have to pay capital gains on it?


I am not sure if this will help you but this information was useful to me when I sold my gold coins years ago.

This link to a sample page of Geoff Stevens Book:








After Taxes


Maximizing one’s savings is the surest way to guarantee that there is life after taxes. The truly successful investor begins with careful tax planning, which must never be a last-minute scramble in the dreadful month of March or worse still, April! We all know that few of us actually plan well...



books.google.ca





This CRA Link that explains personal use property:





Personal-use property - Canada.ca


Personal-use property




www.canada.ca


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

vas_u4t said:


> Thank you.





Ukrainiandude said:


> if you sell gold for cash and minus the inflation I doubt there was any profits made. So no profit, no income tax.


Not sure the CRA would agree.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Money172375 said:


> CRA


Has no man power and bigger fish to fry. 
Cash transfers are untraceable afaik


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Jimmy said:


> As Warren Buffet says it is a boom and bust lump that just sits there and produces nothing and pays no dividends. Cagr over 105 yrs , 1.2%/yr .
> 
> View attachment 22233


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## vas_u4t (Feb 23, 2021)

leoc2 said:


> I am not sure if this will help you but this information was useful to me when I sold my gold coins years ago.
> 
> This link to a sample page of Geoff Stevens Book:
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answer


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> if you sell gold for cash and minus the inflation I doubt there was any profits made. So no profit, no income tax.


You don't get to subtract inflation when calculating profit.

But yes gold trading profit can be taxable.


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

Ukrainiandude said:


> View attachment 22234


I admit it has done ok lately. I wouldn't want to have a chart like that for any stock though. Go back to 1979 for a 40 yr period and there is a -ve return too.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> You don't get to subtract inflation when calculating profi


Why? Isn’t inflation just another form of tax?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Why? Isn’t inflation just another form of tax?


Not under Canadian Tax law.

That's what makes the tax situation of Real Return Bonds so confusing.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

KaeJS said:


> Wow, really?
> That's quite a large chunk.
> Would you not rather get paid interest or dividends instead of just hoping for capital appreciation?


It's a different asset class. I already have stocks and bonds which pay interest and dividends.

Gold is a different asset with different characteristics. It's not expected to do the same thing as other assets. Although it's had excellent performance over the last couple decades, I actually think it would be a mistake to hold gold purely for 'performance' since that really is not its main role in a portfolio.

In a diversified portfolio, it's best to hold a bunch of different assets which do different things. Here's a good illustration of this, you can see how gold and the TSX Composite have been doing very *different* things.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> It's a different asset class. I already have stocks and bonds which pay interest and dividends.
> 
> Gold is a different asset with different characteristics. It's not expected to do the same thing as other assets. Although it's had excellent performance over the last couple decades, I actually think it would be a mistake to hold gold purely for 'performance' since that really is not its main role in a portfolio.
> 
> ...


So... Will you add crypto to your portfolio? It's a very different asset class behaving very differently.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> So... Will you add crypto to your portfolio? It's a very different asset class behaving very differently.


No, it's not an established asset class. Ask me again in 50 years and maybe then.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Has no man power and bigger fish to fry.
> Cash transfers are untraceable afaik


Advocating illegal activity because you think you're unlikely to get caught isn't acceptable.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

This is great. Next the tar sands will buy electric trucks to call themselves ESG


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1463160541921394690
How about we just stop mining rocks to put in a safe?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I certainly have no intention of claiming any gain on sale of misc. gold items. They did not constitute LPP, listed personal property, nor is there any way of establishing cost. Who knows what was paid for a ring 20 years ago or half the cost of a pair earing bought ten years aga or rec'd as a gift.

I suspect that CRA have the same level of interest that I do in this matter.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> I suspect that CRA have the same level of interest that I do in this matter.


Very true.

A friend of mine recently went through his house and his mom's, and found all kind of junk silver. I was shocked to hear that he ended up getting close to $1,000 for it when he took the scrap silver to a local private shop.

No cost basis for any of that. Nobody has any idea.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

james4beach said:


> A bit of both (so


I think you have mentioned somewhere that you got to purchase (gold maples?) gold from the bank slightly above the spot price. What was the name of the bank?
Because I am looking at SGB and the have over $160 per maple vs spot price. But they also promise to price match. 








Build your wealth in ounces


The Canadian Maple Leaf is one of the most famous and recognizable bullion coins of all time and is a flagship addition to your holdings. Produced by the Royal Canadian Mint, each issue maintains a similar, but not always identical, design on both the obverse and reverse. Newer issues feature...




silvergoldbull.ca




Local shop isn’t better 




__





SILVERTIP GOLD - Saskatoon Gold Dealer


Saskatoon's only Licensed Gold Dealer. Sell your scrap or unwanted Gold items for instant CASH. As a Customer Direct business, there's low overhead, so you're guaranteed to get more when you sell, and pay less when you buy....It's a win-win for everyone except the big banks.




silvertipgold.ca


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> I think you have mentioned somewhere that you got to purchase (gold maples?) gold from the bank slightly above the spot price. What was the name of the bank?


TD. You can even look at their precious metals pricing here

They are quoting "sale" prices for Maple Leaf gold coins. It's now sold out, but you can still see the quote they had for _circulated_ 1 oz Maple Leaf gold for 2417 CAD. The gold market price is 1829 USD x 1.266 = 2316 CAD

So the premium if paying in CAD is only 4.4% which is even less than what I paid. Seems like good pricing to me at TD, assuming you can find it in stock.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Maple Leaf gold coins


because random year maples are out of stock now at TD.
What is your opinion on *1 oz Perth Mint Cast Gold Bar ?*
Better price per ounce with TD vs other coins or bullions. Liquidity should be fine for cast bars still? thanks.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Better price per ounce with TD vs other coins or bullions. Liquidity should be fine for cast bars still? thanks.


I've never bought this one, I have no idea. But the Perth Mint is a reputable refiner. I don't know what "cast" means though.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

james4beach said:


> cast











Whats the Difference Between Cast Gold Bullion and Minted Gold Bullion?


If you are buying purely on weight, and as an investment product, then cast gold bullion is ideal. However, minted gold bullion does look better.




www.thegoldbullion.co.uk


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Whats the Difference Between Cast Gold Bullion and Minted Gold Bullion?
> 
> 
> If you are buying purely on weight, and as an investment product, then cast gold bullion is ideal. However, minted gold bullion does look better.
> ...


Thanks. I see, the casted gold has just been poured into a mould or cast.

Minted bars (and especially coins) have much more intricate details. I think these deserve a higher premium, both for aesthetic reasons but also because minted bars and coins will be harder to counterfeit.

I don't know how many counterfeits are out there in the real world but I started buying coins because they are harder to forge, have much more fine artistic details.


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

When i buy bullion i bring a magnet !!!


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