# Chinese money in Vancouver



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Bloomberg is running a feature article on Vancouver:

The City That Had Too Much Money - Vancouver was the first place to experience the tidal wave of Chinese cash. Now the city is leading efforts to stop it.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Some say the reason for Bitcoin was so the Chinese could get money out of China


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I've heard that too lonewolf and I can believe it. China had capital controls that restricted the ability to take money out of the country. Bitcoin was a very interesting tool that let people get the money out.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ How is this mechanism different from the Panama Papers?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

It occurs to me that it is not Chinese money that is the problem. It is Canadian money that we paid to the Chinese for manufactured goods, that is now returning and being used to buy up hard assets.

So, since the 1980s we got ship loads of cheap appliances, clothes, TVs etc that are now mostly in a landfill and in return they get to buy up our houses, mines, oil wells, etc.

Wonder who figured that was going to be a good deal.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

One of my real estate lawyers was just telling me that China seized a bunch of Canadian assets from Chinese citizens. Nothing in the news that I’ve seen to verify this, but scary if true and your Chinese. Now the Chinese government owns a lot of Canadian real estate, businesses and assets.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> One of my real estate lawyers was just telling me that China seized a bunch of Canadian assets from Chinese citizens. Nothing in the news that I’ve seen to verify this, but scary if true and your Chinese. Now the Chinese government owns a lot of Canadian real estate, businesses and assets.


It's true and been going on for a couple years. Here's one example https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...retirement-home-operator-to-anbang-insurance/


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Just a Guy said:


> One of my real estate lawyers was just telling me that China seized a bunch of Canadian assets from Chinese citizens. Nothing in the news that I’ve seen to verify this, but scary if true and your Chinese. Now the Chinese government owns a lot of Canadian real estate, businesses and assets.


Now I am beginning to appreciate your low opinion of lawyers. Any lawyer who says that "China seized a bunch of Canadian assets" is spouting nonsense. 

China has no right or ability to march into Canada and start seizing anything. Any asset on Canadian soil falls under Canadian jurisdiction. Let's say, for example, that Mr. Egg Foo Yong, a Chinese national, brought $5 million to Canada, in violation Chinese currency laws, and bought a house in Vancouver. Do you think that a Chinese official can sign a vesting order and file it in the Vancouver Land Title Office and have a new Certificate of Title issued in the name of the People's Republic of China?

The only hope for China would be to sue in a BC court or obtain judgment in China. There is no reciprocity agreement between BC and China, so China cannot simply register its judgment in the BC Supreme Court and then enforce it as a judgment of that court. So, it must bring an action in BC, seeking a BC court order enforcing the judgment.

However, Canadian courts will not enforce foreign judgments relating to public law, taxes, penal or quasi-criminal matters. In fact, that reluctance of Canadian courts to get involved in the dirty work of a foreign jurisdiction is a principle of public international law recognized around the world since time out of mind. I would wager that principle alone would spike China's guns in seeking to seize anything here, even through the machinery of our domestic courts.

A good discussion on what is involved in enforcing a foreign judgment may be found here:

https://iclg.com/practice-areas/enforcement-of-foreign-judgments-laws-and-regulations/canada

And here:

https://www.osler.com/en/resources/regulations/2018/enforcing-foreign-judgments-in-canada



nathan79 said:


> It's true and been going on for a couple years. Here's one example https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...retirement-home-operator-to-anbang-insurance/


Even a cursory review of the article cited reveals the circumstances there to be wholly distinguishable. Nowhere does it say any Canadian assets are being seized. Rather, it says that "Chinese officials took control of the Beijing-based holding company" that bought retirement homes in BC. A "Beijing-based holding company" is not a Canadian asset. The _situs_ of the asset is China, it is governed by the laws of China and, after the Chinese government takes it over, assuming it is able to do so under Chinese law, not much has changed, vis-a-vis the corporate assets in BC. They were controlled by a Chinese corporation before government action and they remain that way.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> Now I am beginning to appreciate your low opinion of lawyers. Any lawyer who says that "China seized a bunch of Canadian assets" is spouting nonsense.
> 
> China has no right or ability to march into Canada and start seizing anything. Any asset on Canadian soil falls under Canadian jurisdiction. Let's say, for example, that Mr. Egg Foo Yong, a Chinese national, brought $5 million to Canada, in violation Chinese currency laws, and bought a house in Vancouver. Do you think that a Chinese official can sign a vesting order and file it in the Vancouver Land Title Office and have a new Certificate of Title issued in the name of the People's Republic of China?
> 
> ...


I stand corrected on that.. in fact it's even worse than what I implied. LOL


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

^ Exactly, and could it be such Chinese corporations are serving as Trojan horses for the Chinese government ... no ... :hopelessness:


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> It occurs to me that it is not Chinese money that is the problem. It is Canadian money that we paid to the Chinese for manufactured goods, that is now returning and being used to buy up hard assets.
> 
> So, since the 1980s we got ship loads of cheap appliances, clothes, TVs etc that are now mostly in a landfill and in return they get to buy up our houses, mines, oil wells, etc.
> 
> Wonder who figured that was going to be a good deal.


Minor nit-pick. It's not Canadian money sent to China that is returning to buy Canadian assets. It's *world-wide* money buying cheap Chinese goods that have flooded and undercut local markets around the globe that is arriving on Canadian shores (mainly the western shore).

Canada actually spends very little on Chinese goods compared to the US and Rest Of World. Unfortunately, we're bearing a disproportionate brunt of all that Chinese money inflow because of our accommodating attitude towards foreign investment and ownership, relative to other countries.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This story at Global News says that Chinese organized crime could have laundered over $1 billion through Vancouver real estate.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4658157/...estate-billion-money-laundering-police-study/



> The stately $17-million mansion owned by a suspected fentanyl importer is at the end of a gated driveway on one of the priciest streets in Shaughnessy, Vancouver’s most exclusive neighbourhood.
> 
> A block away is a $22-million gabled manor that police have linked to a high-stakes gambler and property developer with suspected ties to the Chinese police services.
> 
> ...


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

james4beach said:


> This story at Global News says that Chinese organized crime could have laundered over $1 billion through Vancouver real estate.
> https://globalnews.ca/news/4658157/...estate-billion-money-laundering-police-study/


Almost as bad as Trump and the Russians in NY.


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