# PC promo 3.1% to end of year



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

*PC promo 3.1% to December 15*

Another one of the PC Financial promotional interest rate offers, though this one carries more caveats and fine print than the previous ones I've seen

http://www.banking.pcfinancial.ca/mkt/common/promos/DepositRateFall2014Promo-en.html

3.1% interest on new deposits (versus starting value on September 5, 2014). There is some fine print that concerns me. Your thoughts on non-registered section 4 of the rules?

It sounds to me like the big caveat here is that the only money that will earn 3.1% is what you're able to deposit between September 6, 2014 and September 30, 2014. So for instance if you only deposit $1,000 of new deposits in September, then even if you deposit more money after September it's only the $1,000 that earns the 3.1%.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_caveats and fine print _ no caveats and all clear  many banks doing similar promotions, like in Tangerine you needed to transfer in new money before Sep 15 (they extended it to Sep 30) and will be getting 3% until Nov 30.. This is why some people have different account in different banks and moving money back and forth to catch promotion....


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

And of course it was only a few days ago that I tied up cash in a 90 day GIC ... :hopelessness:


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

It's till Dec 15, not till the end of the year. And I agree with your interpretation of section 4.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

You're right, it's until December 15 not the end of the year.

3.1% is a pretty high rate. I think I'll transfer in money from my credit union. Someone mentioned in another thread that domestic electronic transfers above 10K don't raise the FINTRAC alarms (I hope this is true, anyone else know?)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> You're right, it's until December 15 not the end of the year.
> 
> 3.1% is a pretty high rate. I think I'll transfer in money from my credit union. Someone mentioned in another thread that domestic electronic transfers above 10K don't raise the FINTRAC alarms (I hope this is true, anyone else know?)


This "somebody" was me! After you and somebody else started to scare people, I went to FINTRAC website and checked info that published. 
It would be really stupid waste of tax money if FINTRAC will check tens thousand of people who just trying to make couple of more %....And it's actuallly better for CRA, more interest = more taxes...
I have money in Tangerine for 3% until Nov 30, after will move back to PT whose constant rate is 1.8% and will be waiting for another "new money" promotion from any institution


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Even shopkeepers who deposit a few hundred dollars are having their activities reported to FINTRAC -- as per CBC article. So please don't rely on logic or reason. The government * is * wasting time, energy, and money tracking all kinds of harmless transactions.

The info you found (that domestic electronic transfers are exempt) is great, but as a general note I'm just saying, this isn't about logic or what's sensible


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I tend to believe more official Finntrac website than CBC articles  ... and the point is that I'm not doing anything illegal from moving my after-tax money from bank to bank


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

since you have now joined the sad congo line of fbar filers, i wonder if the extra money earned is worth the record keeping ?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

"sad congo line of fbar filers" - what r u talkin' about?


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

what record keeping? just file the T-slips at the end of the year and you're done, if it's not registered.

on my 85K cash I make an extra $1,500.00 per year at 3.1% vs 1.3% so yeah, for me it's worth a few minutes time.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> what record keeping? just file the T-slips at the end of the year and you're done, if it's not registered.
> 
> on my 85K cash I make an extra $1,500.00 per year at 3.1% vs 1.3% so yeah, for me it's worth a few minutes time.


james moved to States...maybe there are some complication there.... but if in any case you fill out T5. it doesn't matter what amount you enter


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

ah, right, forgot about that, could be a little more hassle for james.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I noticed that last couple of years those promotions became frequesnt and popular.... probably majority of clients forget (or just lazy) to transfer out money twhen promo is done and because promotions on and off , always trying to max $ amount...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I continue to get T5's same as before... there's nothing complicated about taxes on promo interest. It's all shown on the T5.

My US situation severely impacts my ability to invest in ETFs but conventional bank deposits remain free of complications. I'm very happy to move money into this 3.1% offer


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

fatcat said:


> since you have now joined the sad congo line of fbar filers, i wonder if the extra money earned is worth the record keeping ?


(For others: this is a note about additional requirements on people residing in the US). Oh, you were probably referring to me. FBAR is just a list of bank accounts and peak values. My PC account is already open and since I'm already going through the hassle, there's no extra burden for me to transfer extra cash in.

i.e. there is no extra paperwork created by depositing new money for the PC promo rate, unless I'm missing something?


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Seems like a waste of time to me as the offer is only valid until Dec 15th (3 month)? I guess if one is investing over 500k it could pay for a nice vacation but for anything under 250k it doesn't seem worth it to me?


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

As mentioned in another thread, these promos have been running back-to-back with different online banks for years now.
They are all similar with slight differences in the fine print each time, but it's usually just a matter of making sure your balance is zero before the next promo starts in order to get the full bonus rate on everything you move in.

The difference between the 1.3% of the big five vs 3.1% on 250K is $4,500.00 over one year.
If $4.5K is worth less to you than the time it takes you to write about it on CMF you must have a lot more money than me


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

mrPPincer said:


> The difference between the 1.3% of the big five vs 3.1% on 250K is $4,500.00 over one year.
> If $4.5K is worth less to you than the time it takes you to write about it on CMF you must have a lot more money than me


First off as per my post I'm under the impression that the promo is only valid for 3 months, hence on 250k one would earn approximately $1900. Most people with 250k sitting around are already likely earning 1.5-2% so subtract that from the $1900 and you have around $800-1000. If the promo goes on for an entire year than that's another story. That's why I had questions marks in my post.

Actually I learn quite a bit from CMF so I don't think i'm wasting my time per say.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> As mentioned in another thread, these promos have been running back-to-back with different online banks for years now.
> They are all similar with slight differences in the fine print each time, but it's usually just a matter of making sure your balance is zero before the next promo starts in order to get the full bonus rate on everything you move in.
> 
> The difference between the 1.3% of the big five vs 3.1% on 250K is $4,500.00 over one year.
> If $4.5K is worth less to you than the time it takes you to write about it on CMF you must have a lot more money than me


Exactly, in the worst case (no promos anywhere), I'll park my cash in PT with 1.8% , but this year so far 80% of the time we had some promos in diferent banks... if you take average yield over there year and comparing to regular HISA rate (in TD and CIBC it's 1.05%) , for every 100K , you gain additional $1,500 ... tell me what kind of job you have if 1,500 for 1-2 hours of easy work doesn't fit your life style 
Except this, we have kinda monthly 1 year GIC ladder in PT for 2.4% (before it was 2.2%-2.3%), so money is pretty liquid and I will reopen 1 y GIC of will move to HISA with better promotion


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I continue to get T5's same as before... there's nothing complicated about taxes on promo interest. It's all shown on the T5.
> 
> My US situation severely impacts my ability to invest in ETFs but conventional bank deposits remain free of complications. I'm very happy to move money into this 3.1% offer


Why do you have problems with ETFs? I assume it's only for Cash accounts, don't see how it can be issue for registered as you are doing all online in some of Canadaian discount brokerages...

btw, how do you liki OR so far? Some time ago we did extensive travel in OR and really enjoyed it (even though we declined offered relocation over there) ... We didn't like so much Portland, too many tramps... but small towns around Intel site were pretty nice...
The major drawback,... ocean is close , but is extremely cold even in Jly


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

gibor said:


> tell me what kind of job you have if 1,500 for 1-2 hours of easy work doesn't fit your life style


:biggrin:


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> (For others: this is a note about additional requirements on people residing in the US). Oh, you were probably referring to me. FBAR is just a list of bank accounts and peak values. My PC account is already open and since I'm already going through the hassle, there's no extra burden for me to transfer extra cash in.
> 
> i.e. there is no extra paperwork created by depositing new money for the PC promo rate, unless I'm missing something?


you haven't heard of Form 602-L ? it is required of all canadian filers with savings accounts over 5K ... part of the new tax treaty ? ... it's effective in 2013 though i may be wrong and it starts in 2014

if your account is under 5K you are fine


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

fatcat said:


> you haven't heard of Form 602-L ? it is required of all canadian filers with savings accounts over 5K ... part of the new tax treaty ? ... it's effective in 2013 though i may be wrong and it starts in 2014
> 
> if your account is under 5K you are fine


Can you give some link?! i googled , but didn't find such forms... also per my line of work , I should know about all tax changes... never heard about it


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> (For others: this is a note about additional requirements on people residing in the US) ...


According to my co-workers who are a US citizen residing in Canada or have a US citizen spouse, unless one planned ahead - both spouses residing in Canada have to report their accounts.


I do believe you are correct ... FBAR would mean opening a new account would add work but transfers among existing accounts is only going to change the reported peaked value for that account in whatever month the transfer happened.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Synergy said:


> Seems like a waste of time to me as the offer is only valid until Dec 15th (3 month)?
> I guess if one is investing over 500k it could pay for a nice vacation but for anything under 250k it doesn't seem worth it to me?


I never understand why people are worried about the amount not being large enough to "make it worth it".

If one has a PCF account open and a Tangerine account - what's the work? 
Login through the web, transfer and check it went through ... watch for a new promotion.

The key IMO is "if one leaves it there, will it earn less"
Where the answer is "yes" - why would one intentionally earn less?




Synergy said:


> ... If the promo goes on for an entire year than that's another story. That's why I had questions marks in my post.


Is one can earn more with a few clicks of the mouse ... why do amounts matter?


Cheers


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> IThe key IMO is "if one leaves it there, will it earn less"
> Where the answer is "yes" - why would one intentionally earn less?
> 
> Is one can earn more with a few clicks of the mouse ... why do amounts matter?
> Cheers


This is what I don't understand in many Canadians...they telling "too much hassle", "amount is too small' etc... and when they are close to retirement, they complain that don't have enough savings and ... vote for Liberals 
I try to teach my kids to be frugal and if they can easily save some cash, just do it.... My son in university and has several thousands, and he is opening now Tangerine accout to take advantage of 3% promotion , even if he will get just couple of hundred $ , for students it's not small amount and he will used to do it for future...


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> I never understand why people are worried about the amount not being large enough to "make it worth it". Is one can earn more with a few clicks of the mouse ... why do amounts matter?


Fair enough. I do however understand why the amount needs to be "large enough" to make it worth it, some people have a lot of money and could'nt be bothered chasing promotions. For the most part, if the promo's keep coming it appears to be a viable option to make some "safe" money.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Synergy said:


> Fair enough. I do however understand why the amount needs to be "large enough" to make it worth it, some people have a lot of money and could'nt be bothered chasing promotions. For the most part, if the promo's keep coming it appears to be a viable option to make some "safe" money.


Some people HAVE a lot of money because they were chasing different promotions


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

gibor said:


> Can you give some link?! i googled , but didn't find such forms... also per my line of work , I should know about all tax changes... never heard about it


nor will you since i was pulling james's leg gibor ... i am trying throw every account that i don't need overboard and the thought of taking on a new account for just a few bucks is more than offset by paperwork and recordkeeping

i had a long meeting a tax accountant yesterday and we were talking about the current state of us and canadian tax law

i said to him in all seriousness "there are now so many forms that if the tax collector really wanted get you and he could devote the resources, he would be able to take every penny you owned, is that about right ?" and said "yes it is"

this thing is now getting so complex that it just spins out of control

for those of us who yearly navigate 2 tax systems, it is just too much and really reduces your ability to find investment products that don't complicate tax reporting


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

gibor said:


> Some people HAVE a lot of money because they were chasing different promotions


okay, we'll start a reality tv series for ya - Promotion Chasers, who says you can't beat the system.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Synergy said:


> ... I do however understand why the amount needs to be "large enough" to make it worth it, some people have a lot of money and could'nt be bothered chasing promotions.


Let me get this straight ... people who have middling amounts in cash, say $200K, aren't interested in being paid more simply because the promotion runs out in a couple of months?

I suspect such people have spent far more time that it would take to open a PCF & Tangerine account to use the promotion bonus investigating either setting up GIC ladders or selecting income paying stocks.

Those who already have an equal or better return won't be interested and those who think it's a lot of work won't be interested - those who quantify the effort likely see it as low risk and easy money.




Synergy said:


> ... For the most part, if the promo's keep coming it appears to be a viable option to make some "safe" money.


I haven't been tracking it so I'm not sure clear on where any breaks in the string are or for how long.

That said a search of CMF shows promos as far back as April 2013. Posts on another board seem to indicate that one stream was Sept 2012 to Jan 31st, then Feb 1st to May 31st, then June to Aug etc. I seem to recall Tangerine running competing promotions so if one has accounts at both institutions, it's simply a transfer every three to five months to keep the bonus rolling.

I also noticed that a post saying RBC was offering a promotional interest bump up ... which suggests there's enough people rolling money around for it to be noticed.


Cheers


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Tangerine had 2.5% promotion until end of july or so and after 1 month they introduce current 3% promotion...CIBC running 2% until end of Sept


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

fatcat: you did a good job pulling my leg, I ended up doing a google search. The sick thing about US taxes is that I would not be surprised if this turned out to be a real thing. I also agree with your observations of the state of the tax law. Yes, the rules are so broad that they can go after anyone. It's been scaring the sh*t out of me ever since I moved here.

gibor: regarding ETFs, I can hold some sheltered in RRSP (relatively simple form takes care of it) but non-registered, any Canadian mutual fund or ETF is called a PFIC by the IRS and requires all kinds of special handling. So bye-bye all my nonregistered ETFs. They are just not worth the trouble, especially with a $10,000 penalty risk per _each_ failure to report. Non-reg ETF ownership is one of the most dangerous things I could do. I'll see what I can bring inside my RRSP.

I truly appreciate these promo rates as they ARE easy and safe things for me to invest in. Unlike fatcat, I've had PC accounts for many years so I have to report them anyway.

And regarding, is it worth the effort?

For me -- yes!! With a few clicks and transfers, I can boost the rate of interest accrual from 1.25% or whatever to 3.1%. A few minutes of effort, and a few hundred $ extra money in my pocket. With no risk. I probably spend far more effort when grocery shopping to save just a few dollars on food.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

By the way, fatcat, should we start a "FBAR/FATCA support group" ?

We could go around the circle and hear the same story from everyone: My life was great and my investments were so easy before I heard of this FBAR thing. Now I suddenly find that I'm treated like a criminal and it's a daily struggle to find an investment that doesn't make my life worse.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> "sad congo line of fbar filers" - what r u talkin' about?


I think he meant this...

*Who Must File an FBAR*


> United States persons are required to file an FBAR if:
> the United States person had a financial interest in or signature authority over at least one financial account located outside of the United States; and
> the aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> Let me get this straight ... people who have middling amounts in cash, say $200K, aren't interested in being paid more simply because the promotion runs out in a couple of months?


I was referring to people with a lot of money, sorry I should quantified. I'm talking about people with millions of dollars sitting around, not a few hundred k.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> By the way, fatcat, should we start a "FBAR/FATCA support group" ?
> 
> We could go around the circle and hear the same story from everyone: My life was great and my investments were so easy before I heard of this FBAR thing. Now I suddenly find that I'm treated like a criminal and it's a daily struggle to find an investment that doesn't make my life worse.


i don't think there are enough of us on this group but there are groups around i know

i just had a long meeting with an attorney and a very good tax accountant regarding an estate that us tax implications

he said he thought that in recent statements the irs commissioner was sounding embarrassed about all the trouble being caused especially to canadians who tend to have a good tax regime in place with the usa

it is, as you say, affecting our ability to invest in certain assets and products and we are now foregoing investments based on unknown paperwork or complex and conflicting tax implications ... i now invest in 99% straight stocks, canadian bonds and gic's and am dumping all my canadian etf's and mutual funds ... forget any of the other exotic products that are out there

the whole thing is really unfair and creating a lot of bitterness toward the usa around the world


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Earning an extra 1.3%, say, on $200k for 3 months is $650. It's probably worth moving it, but at the end of the day you end up with a bunch of accounts at many different institutions to keep track of.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Earning an extra 1.3%, say, on $200k for 3 months is $650. It's probably worth moving it, but at the end of the day you end up with a bunch of accounts at many different institutions to keep track of.


andrew, first of all, now it's more than 1.3%... HISA in TD 1.05% in Tangerine 3% and PC 3.1%... also I was mentioned in this thread promotions keep coming , so it's not really 3 months, but majority of the year....so you get much more than $650... yes, maybe if you have 5-7 accounts in different institutions, it's a bit too much, but I have accounts in 3 , and it's fine


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Promo only applies to new deposits, so you have to keep transfering money around.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Promo only applies to new deposits, so you have to keep transfering money around.


That's right  after promo finished...move $$ to institution with their promo and wait when 1sr institution will have a new one


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

If interest rates rise above earnings the creative math for companies borrowing to buy their own stock could change to sell. A decline in earnings or a rise in interest things could get interesting


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Promo only applies to new deposits, so you have to keep transfering money around.


Seems a little futile to me as well, but if it's working for some to play the system like this then so be it. Perhaps gibor could start a new thread entitled "promotion chaser" - outline the actual process taken, results, etc. You'd think the institutions would have something in place to prevent bouncing in and out of their promotions like this but then again maybe the extra "new account setups" will look good on their books.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Similar thread already open long time ago.... _institutions would have something in place to prevent bouncing in and out of their promotions like this _ as I mentioned above, most likely institution did their research and found that majority of people like you....and they just leave account for good ... who is more proactive, gets more...


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

gibor said:


> institutions would have something in place to prevent bouncing in and out of their promotions like this as i mentioned above.


I'm not talking about a policy to prevent bouncing in and out of the same promotion, I'm talking about a policy in place to prevent people from opening and closing accounts simply to get NEW promotions every 6 months or so...some sort of lock out period or something.


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## Itchy54 (Feb 12, 2012)

I had some money in peoples waiting to continue with my gic ladder, just doing one year terms coming due each month at this point, and rather than continue with that I moved that money over to a pre-existing tangerine account that is sitting there for this exact situation. Took me about 30 seconds to log into peoples and transfer the money to my cibc account. Money was in cibc the next morning and was then transferred to tangerine....took me, honestly, about two minutes max. I will receive an extra $270 over just leaving it in peoples. I am happy with that. For me it means that I can eat at my favourite breakfast spot in Mexico 20 times.....really looking forward to December!
As each pay check comes in all excess will go into the tangerine account. We are not rich people and every cent does matter to me, to a point.....
Right now I do not think I would open an account with PC, but that might change.

Synergy, the accounts do not need to be new accounts to take advantage of the promotions. I keep my tangerine account open with little cash just for this very reason.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Itchy54 said:


> I had some money in peoples waiting to continue with my gic ladder, just doing one year terms coming due each month at this point, and rather than continue with that I moved that money over to a pre-existing tangerine account that is sitting there for this exact situation. Took me about 30 seconds to log into peoples and transfer the money to my cibc account. Money was in cibc the next morning and was then transferred to tangerine....took me, honestly, about two minutes max. I will receive an extra $270 over just leaving it in peoples. I am happy with that. For me it means that I can eat at my favourite breakfast spot in Mexico 20 times.....really looking forward to December!
> As each pay check comes in all excess will go into the tangerine account. We are not rich people and every cent does matter to me, to a point.....
> Right now I do not think I would open an account with PC, but that might change.
> 
> Synergy, the accounts do not need to be new accounts to take advantage of the promotions. I keep my tangerine account open with little cash just for this very reason.


Exactly my situation...even bank names and GIC PT 1y ladder are


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Im thinking of opening an account at tangerine for the swapping 

This deal starts as of the balance sept 6
i had too much money in the account that day...
i can't earn more


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

SheaButters said:


> Im thinking of opening an account at tangerine for the swapping


PM me if you want my orange key for a free $50 for opening a new account


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Itchy54 said:


> Synergy, the accounts do not need to be new accounts to take advantage of the promotions. I keep my tangerine account open with little cash just for this very reason.


Okay, so it's really just about new "cash" that triggers all these promo's? So the trick is to ensure you pull your cash out before the promo starts or switch to a new institution that is offering a similar promo? Now we just need some insiders to give everyone a heads up on when the promo's are to be released...


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Synergy said:


> Okay, so it's really just about new "cash" that triggers all these promo's? So the trick is to ensure you pull your cash out before the promo starts or switch to a new institution that is offering a similar promo? Now we just need some insiders to give everyone a heads up on when the promo's are to be released...


No, you don't need any insiders. Here's how I play the game:

I have accounts at Tangerine, PCF, PT and CDF.

Promo ends: move all funds from Tangerine/PCF to PT/CDF. Leave zero balance at Tangerine/PCF. Earn regular rate at PT/CDF (currently 1.8% and 1.9%).

New promo starts: move all funds back to Tangerine/PCF. 

I've been doing this for a few years now. Once the initial account setup is done, the game requires very little ongoing effort.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> No, you don't need any insiders. Here's how I play the game:


"Insiders" was a little bit of a joke, but thanks a bunch for outlining your methods. Perhaps I need to join the party one of these days. I guess it wouldn't be wise to do over 100K secondary to the CIDC limits?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Now all we need is for CDIC limits to be raised to $500k...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> PM me if you want my orange key for a free $50 for opening a new account


Or me


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Synergy said:


> "Insiders" was a little bit of a joke, but thanks a bunch for outlining your methods. Perhaps I need to join the party one of these days. I guess it wouldn't be wise to do over 100K secondary to the CIDC limits?


We need not insiders , but thread where everyone can give others head ups on upcoming promo (as it easily can be missed)  For this purpose I opened fixed income thread on CMF. Now Tangerine promotion I think until Nov 30, so after I will move money to PT and will be waiting for another promotion, if PCF or CDF will offer such promotion with rates 2.5% or above, I will open new account there. 
Regarding 100K ... In small banks like PT, I don't keep more than 100K per account, so I have several accounts, my individual, my wife individual, joint with my wife... 100K on every account is insured by CDIC. I Tangerine I may have more than 100K on 1 account, as this is pretty big bank and I'm not worried too much


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Is CDF insured by CDIC? I couldn't find this bank on CDIC list


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

How long does it take to transfer funds to and from PCF or Tangerine. I've never had any accounts linked to my personal TD account. I'm assuming all electronic transfers would be free of charge at PCF / Tang? What's the deal with this orange key? I'm leaning towards PCF for my initial trial at the promo game, are there any significant differences between the two accounts / companies I should be aware of? Thanks.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Synergy said:


> How long does it take to transfer funds to and from PCF or Tangerine. I've never had any accounts linked to my personal TD account. I'm assuming all electronic transfers would be free of charge at PCF / Tang? What's the deal with this orange key? I'm leaning towards PCF for my initial trial at the promo game, are there any significant differences between the two accounts / companies I should be aware of? Thanks.


You need to open account online and send your cheque for $1 or more, than online bank will link your account and you will be able to transfer online.... For ezample if you want to transfer $ from PT to Tangerine, you should first transfer from PT to TD and tan from TD to Tangerine, every transfer will take 1 or 2 business days. imho, Tangerine is much bigger and safe institution than PCF or PT (now its own by BNS) and just psychologically I'm more comfortable to have money in Tang tan PCF if rates are the same.
When you open new account in Tangerine, you can enter Orange key of anyone who hold account there, if you do you and account holder get $25 (or $50 when it's promotion)


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

gibor said:


> You need to open account online and send your cheque for $1 or more, than online bank will link your account and you will be able to transfer online.... For ezample if you want to transfer $ from PT to Tangerine, you should first transfer from PT to TD and tan from TD to Tangerine, every transfer will take 1 or 2 business days. imho, Tangerine is much bigger and safe institution than PCF or PT (now its own by BNS) and just psychologically I'm more comfortable to have money in Tang tan PCF if rates are the same.
> When you open new account in Tangerine, you can enter Orange key of anyone who hold account there, if you do you and account holder get $25 (or $50 when it's promotion)


Thanks gibor, looks like with 100k invested the tangerine $50 new account bonus would more than offset the higher interest rate (3.1%) offered at PCF right now. However, there promotion does go on for another 15 days (until Dec 15th, 2014) If I decided to open the account I'll send you a PM for access to this mysterious orange key. Thanks again.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Synergy said:


> Thanks gibor, looks like with 100k invested the tangerine $50 new account bonus would more than offset the higher interest rate (3.1%) offered at PCF right now. However, there promotion does go on for another 15 days (until Dec 15th, 2014) If I decided to open the account I'll send you a PM for access to this mysterious orange key. Thanks again.


No problem  If you have only TD you can open easily 2 online bank accounts.... also note that if you will open account in Tangerine, you will get your own Orange key, ....than if your other family member will use your Orange key to open account, both , you and your family member will get $50 (or $25) signing bonus also. I opened account for my mom and both of us got this cash....
Also, you may consider PT, best TFSA rates at 3% and 1 y GIC at 2.4%


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

gibor said:


> No problem  If you have only TD you can open easily 2 online bank accounts.... also note that if you will open account in Tangerine, you will get your own Orange key, ....than if your other family member will use your Orange key to open account, both , you and your family member will get $50 (or $25) signing bonus also. I opened account for my mom and both of us got this cash....
> Also, you may consider PT, best TFSA rates at 3% and 1 y GIC at 2.4%


Ha, good luck convincing my parents to open a tangerine account! It took my father 5 yrs to warm up to the idea of a TFSA. We finally got him on board just a few weeks ago. Good to know nonetheless. Considering I'm normally fully invested inside my TFSA, the PT account isn't all that appealling right now. If they'd jack up the contribution limits to 10+K per year then I may be more inclined to leave some cash sitting inside my TFSA.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Synergy said:


> Ha, good luck convincing my parents to open a tangerine account! It took my father 5 yrs to warm up to the idea of a TFSA. We finally got him on board just a few weeks ago. Good to know nonetheless. Considering I'm normally fully invested inside my TFSA, the PT account isn't all that appealling right now. If they'd jack up the contribution limits to 10+K per year then I may be more inclined to leave some cash sitting inside my TFSA.


With my mom is easier....I'm managing all her finances  Last year I deposited some cash from our 11K TFSA into PT as I can get much better interest than in RRSP... also if your spouse opens account there you will get this bonus


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

gibor said:


> Is CDF insured by CDIC? I couldn't find this bank on CDIC list


Yes, it is insured. CDF is a part of Canadian Western Bank. CWB is a member of CDIC.

Click on CDIC tab on the FAQ page:

https://www.canadiandirectfinancial.com/Personal/AboutUs/FAQs/


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

OK...fine... do u know how long they offer 1.9% onHISA ...do they have promos similar to PC orTang?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

CDF doesn't run promotions. 1.9% is their regular rate. I don't remember when was the last time they changed it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gold i think yours is an ingenious plan & i congratulate you for having figured it out so long ago.

you know that ING prevents recent flips by recording each account something like a month before each new promotion begins, though. Any withdrawals count against the promo, ie somebody who WD's $100k a week before a promo begins won't be able to recontribute it back again & obtain the promo benefit.

the way i see it, all ING has to do to thwart your lovely strategy is extend the record date back many months behind the start date of each new promo. What if they used account size 6 months prior, or even one entire year prior?

wouldn't that effectively prevent clients from retreating to another financial institution as soon as each promo ends, then jumping all their cash back in for a new promo?

btw it's not clear to me whether one needs to close an account completely when each promo ends, then open a new & different account when one want to jump back for a new promo.

if the latter, there's a palpable level of extra bother that lowers the benefit imho.

asking you as a veteran of the strategy, do you think that - when all is said & done - one might be obtaining an extra 1-1.50% interest rate for approximately half a year? or is the return for gold stone skipping better than that?

PS did you use to skip stones as a child? you'd find a smallish handheld flat stone at a lake, then skim it sideways onto the surface of the water. If you were lucky it would skip out of the water 4 or 5 times & it would keep flying onwards.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_he way i see it, all ING has to do to thwart your lovely strategy is extend the record date back many months behind the start date of each new promo. What if they used account size 6 months prior, or even one entire year prior?

wouldn't that effectively prevent clients from retreating to another financial institution as soon as each promo ends, then jumping all their cash back in for a new promo?

btw it's not clear to me whether one needs to close an account completely when each promo ends, then open a new & different account when one want to jump back for a new promo._

Maybe you need to apply to be financial advisor in ING  as currently record date = date of promo

What is not clear?! Several times was noticed that no need to close/open new account


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> you know that ING prevents recent flips by recording each account something like a month before each new promotion begins, though. Any withdrawals count against the promo, ie somebody who WD's $100k a week before a promo begins won't be able to recontribute it back again & obtain the promo benefit.


A month before? No. The cut-off date is typically one day before the promotion starts. For example:

Tangerine current promotion started on Sept 1. The cut-off date is Aug 31. See points #1 and #2 in terms and conditions:
http://www.tangerine.ca/en/landing-page/backtoschool/termsandconditions.html

PCF current promotion started on Sept 6. The cut-off date is Sept 5. See points #1 and #4:
http://www.banking.pcfinancial.ca/mkt/common/promos/DepositRateFall2014Promo-en.html

The cut-off date establishes the base balance. As long as you have zero balance on the cut-off date, you are fine. Your account history prior to that doesn't matter.




humble_pie said:


> the way i see it, all ING has to do to thwart your lovely strategy is extend the record date back many months behind the start date of each new promo. What if they used account size 6 months prior, or even one entire year prior?


Sure they can do that. My response: I would keep my money at PT or/and CDF. ING wouldn't see a single penny. As simple as that.




humble_pie said:


> btw it's not clear to me whether one needs to close an account completely when each promo ends, then open a new & different account when one want to jump back for a new promo.


You don't have to close the accounts. My ING and PCF accounts are more than 10 years old.




humble_pie said:


> asking you as a veteran of the strategy, do you think that - when all is said & done - one might be obtaining an extra 1-1.50% interest rate for approximately half a year? or is the return for gold stone skipping better than that?


I earned 2.1% on cash last year, pre-tax. My year-to-date cash return is 1.92%. I expect it will tip over 2% by year end, thanks to the current promotions. That's not too bad considering where 5 year GIC rates stand. I am willing to sacrifice the return to keep my cash fully liquid.



humble_pie said:


> PS did you use to skip stones as a child? you'd find a smallish handheld flat stone at a lake, then skim it sideways onto the surface of the water. If you were lucky it would skip out of the water 4 or 5 times & it would keep flying onwards.


Yes! What a smart analogy. Regular rate at PT or CDF: stone under water. Promotion at Tangerine or PCF: stone above water.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_ My year-to-date cash return is 1.92%. I expect it will tip over 2% by year end, thanks to the current promotions. _ I expect it to be higher , as so far majority of the year I had 2.5% or 3% promos + 2.3-2.4% PT 1 y GIC


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

thanks for all the answers!

i didn't know the promo record date was just before the onset of each promo. I do recall one ING promotion maybe a couple of years back where a cutoff date seemed to be quite far back, but possibly what happened is that i joined the promo with an extra contribution when it was already fairly far along.

i was also thinking of BMO investorline (not the same thing) which regularly hands out $$ for new contributions, but they use a cutoff date quite a bit before the onset of each promotion. Or at least they have until now.

don't you think, though, that if enough people catch on about the beauty of skipping stones over still waters, the offerors might sharpen up their catchment techniques? 

but even if they would do so, it would likely be years before any change would materialize, so there is still plenty of time for the kids on the riverbank to play with the skipping stones.

i think boosting overall return on cash north of 2% is a splendid accomplishment. On $100k that's an easy one grand a year, just for a few electronic transfers. Great stuff! mille mercis!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I've got 25k en route to PC right now. That may be all I can move before end of Sept


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