# Alberta(ns) poaching Ontario(ians)



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Subway billboards tell Torontonians to leave and get a 'bigger house' in Alberta

Are the jobs a guaranteed? What about the lower cost housing there? Any guarantee? No? 



> ... _It’s really rewarding as a young person to make your own life and build your own community and find your own interests.”_


 ... then this can't get any more farcial there.
*
Question:* Why don't Alberta poach its own neighbours like British Columbia, Saskatchewan and or Manitoba? Hell, that's already 3 provinces more than Ontario! 

*Answer:* That's because Albertans think Ontarians are a bunch of suckers to join them hill-billies.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think it is a bit odd that Alberta feels the need to advertise to attract residents.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't find it odd for AB to advertise the attractiveness and benefits of moving to AB. Purchasing power goes much further in AB than many other locations. It is part of AB's diversification drive into technology, distribution, high value added manufacturing, financial services et al. Such advertising also gets the attention of corporations who might consider a move to AB. A most recent example is that of De Havilland building a large manufacturing facility just east of Calgary.

Another million or two of additional working population to its current 4.5 million base in non-O&G related jobs in AB would bolster that drive to diversification. It is especially important as more and more of the conventional O&G industry shrinks as reservoirs dry up and economics decline. There is lots of room for business growth in AB given lower corporate taxes, lack of a provincial sales tax, and overall lower cost of living. It's biggest downside is transportation costs to markets but that can be mitigated by focusing on higher valued products (goods and services) over resources.

@Beaver101 obviously does not know AB is already full of SK transplants and also a strong smattering of MB and Atlantic Canada transplants. It also has a strong following of BC workers. Almost all retired boomers here in our region have adult sons and daughters living and working professional jobs in AB, plus there is still a substantial number of BC residents who work 'camp' jobs in the oil sands and transit through various BC airports. I gave up my nuclear engineering career in ON in 1979 for a better O&G opportunity in AB.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Having lived out west and now in Ontario - Ontarians are living with stockholm syndrome

Not only is cost of living higher but quality of life is much lower. It's worse than I expected. At least in BC the quality of life justifies the cost. Back east you get quality of life for low cost of living but there are no jobs.

There's a lot of friction for people to move


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> I don't find it odd for AB to advertise the attractiveness and benefits of moving to AB. Purchasing power goes much further in AB than many other locations. It is part of AB's diversification drive into technology, distribution, high value added manufacturing, financial services et al. Such advertising also gets the attention of corporations who might consider a move to AB. A most recent example is that of De Havilland building a large manufacturing facility just east of Calgary.
> 
> Another million or two of additional working population to its current 4.5 million base in non-O&G related jobs in AB would bolster that drive to diversification. It is especially important as more and more of the conventional O&G industry shrinks as reservoirs dry up and economics decline. There is lots of room for business growth in AB given lower corporate taxes, lack of a provincial sales tax, and overall lower cost of living. It's biggest downside is transportation costs to markets but that can be mitigated by focusing on higher valued products (goods and services) over resources.
> 
> @Beaver101 obviously does not know AB is already full of SK transplants and also a strong smattering of MB and Atlantic Canada transplants. It also has a strong following of BC workers. Almost all retired boomers here in our region have adult sons and daughters living and working professional jobs in AB, plus there is still a substantial number of BC residents who work 'camp' jobs in the oil sands and transit through various BC airports. I gave up my nuclear engineering career in ON in 1979 for a better O&G opportunity in AB.


 ... then why aren't those SK, MB and Atlantic Canada transplants "staying" there to start up families?

I mean I have Ontario friends and their friends who have kids as "transplants" with the Albertan government on a municipal level (city planner, architect). They only stayed there for a couple of years before yearning to be back in "Ontario". Perhaps not in Toronto but somewhere Ontario's "undeveloped" north citi(es). I'm certain it'll be a couple more years of up there and its back to Toronto where they were born. For one thing, the minus 30C weather is no different than them big cities of Alberta.

And then decade prior to the above during the "oil-boom" of Alberta, a family member recommended his friend to work there and the response was "no thanks" either. Not sure of the particular reason for the no thanks there other than maybe the cold weather effect? Anyhow, the friend eventually settled for Hamilton and started a family despite the wife originated (suprirse! aka born) from Alberta!

And then decade prior to the above, again friends of family member had class-mates who took a shot at working in Alberta in the "aircraft" industry as mechanics. Again, within 2 years (max), both readily returned to Ontario, one in Toronto for sure when that industry over there kind of caved. Both changed careers after a period of time in Ontario, going nowhere else.

*Bottomline:* Jobs are short-lived there which in turn means housing-stays too. Unless the Alberta government can guarantee the job-seeker "something" with that "callingOntarians" ad to Alberta, one would be a fool to uproot and move over there for the "land of short-lived opportunities and cheap housings".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> *Having lived out west and now in Ontario* - Ontarians are living with stockholm syndrome
> 
> *Not only is cost of living higher but quality of life is much lower. It's worse than I expected*. At least in BC the quality of life justifies the cost. Back east you get quality of life for low cost of living but there are no jobs.
> 
> There's a lot of friction for people to move


 ... then why are you in Ontario, if that is true at all? 

For one, I thought you lived in the blockchain world. You know you get to shoot your crxps with like-minded GENZ folks.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... then why aren't those SK, MB and Atlantic Canada transplants "staying" there to start up families.


Some do, some don't ... just like moving to any other place. I have friends that live there now, friends that work there but live in MB and others that have come back (usually family issues) after a while.

Obviously if they can keep a good job, enjoy the lifestyle the area has to offer and find a cheaper home they'll likely stay.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Some do, some don't ... just like moving to any other place. I have friends that live there now, friends that work there but live in MB and others that have come back (usually family issues) after a while.
> 
> Obviously if they can keep a good job, enjoy the lifestyle the area has to offer and find a cheaper home they'll likely stay.


 ... ie. the incentive must be really good aka "worthwhile".

Just like my childhood friend (born in TO!) who moved out to "BC " "permanently", only because 1. her husband was from there (aka born), and 2. she had no problem in seeking a similar position in her field out there. And this was decades ago.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

All the young Americans are moving to Texas and Florida

The great migration? I was surprised how run down Ontario has become

Kinda like visiting San Francisco and realizing it's not like on TV


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> All the young Americans are moving to Texas and Florida
> 
> The great migration? I was surprised how run down Ontario has become
> 
> Kinda like visiting San Francisco and realizing it's not like on TV


 .. and funny enough, you're staying in Ontario? Why's that?


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## Retired1 (Dec 28, 2020)

Beaver101 said:


> ... then why aren't those SK, MB and Atlantic Canada transplants "staying" there to start up families?
> 
> I mean I have Ontario friends and their friends who have kids as "transplants" with the Albertan government on a municipal level (city planner, architect). They only stayed there for a couple of years before yearning to be back in "Ontario". Perhaps not in Toronto but somewhere Ontario's "undeveloped" north citi(es). I'm certain it'll be a couple more years of up there and its back to Toronto where they were born. For one thing, the minus 30C weather is no different than them big cities of Alberta.
> 
> ...


“jobs are short lived” in Alberta?
I arrived in Calgary from Toronto /London Ontario in 1982. After a 36 year career I retired…in Calgary. I only go back to Ontario when visiting family. I would never live there again.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> .. and funny enough, you're staying in Ontario? Why's that?


Same reasons I stayed in Germany, Alaska, Quebec, Saskatchewan, Kuwait and Afghanistan 🤷‍♂️ For the scenery I guess

There really should be an upper age limit on more things. Like driving and politics


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

We live in SK and are considering retiring to AB.

If I had a do-over, we would have probably moved to AB many years ago.

I will mention i lived in ON for two years. People in SK don't seem to understand how beautiful ON is. The lakes and geology of ON are amazing, although it does seem to have a nasty beaver infestation.


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## Birder (9 mo ago)

Alberta has also had radio ads promoting their province for at least the last 8 weeks on Jazz.fm.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

TomB16 said:


> If I had a do-over, we would have probably moved to AB many years ago.


It would have been BC for me, almost pulled the trigger on that one a number of years back but things fell through.



TomB16 said:


> I will mention i lived in ON for two years. People in SK don't seem to understand how beautiful ON is.


NW ON lake country is very nice, not a fan of the large cities though.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... then why aren't those SK, MB and Atlantic Canada transplants "staying" there to start up families?


The majority of young families who move to AB raise their kids there and they do stay. I suggest you look up statistics from StatsCan for population growth percentages, median age, family structure, etc to see for yourself rather than rely on anecdotes and perception.

For those that do not stay in AB, it is often family ties that bring them back to their province of origin (assuming they can find employment). Family ties are powerful and that is to be expected. Despite that, BC and AB have had some of the highest population growth percentage wise over the past few decades. AB also has approximately the youngest overall population of all provinces, save for the territories. Canada: median age of population by province 2021 | Statista That is primarily due to migration of young folk (singles, couples, young families) for employment but also because many retirees in AB ultimately migrate to BC for a better climate (as we did).

Population growth ebbs and flows depending on what individual economies are doing and thus employment growth (or lack thereof). AB had a tough time between 2015 and 2021 with almost no growth for obvious reasons. That has turned around as one would expect and population growth will return to more historical levels. Continued economic diversification is key to reducing boom and bust tendencies in the AB O&G industry.

Added: I've lived and/or worked in ON, NF, AB and BC over the years so have a pretty good perspective of the pros and cons of at least those provinces.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Glad to see Alberta is diversifying their economy.

We have family in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan. I prefer my wife's home Province of Saskatchewan because it is bland as all get out.

Flat.......forever. Nice and quiet, with really friendly people in small towns.....and dirt cheap too.

Saskatchewan is basically a connection of small villages and towns with a couple of bigger ones.

You can buy a detached home for $40K or a real nice one for $150K. Out there........the entertainment is community events.

Sports days, sports teams, dances etc. I found it far less stressful out there. Nobody is in a rush to do anything.

On a visit from her parents to our home in Ontario, he father remarked to me...."why is everyone running around here all stressed out".

I guess we don't notice it here........but I could understand what he was saying after visiting Saskatchewan a few times.

Alas.........the wife says "no way" to going back and living there. Her parents offered us their big farm for free......and she turned it down.


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

I've lived in NS, MB, AB.

AB was the province where lots of young people with no connections to the province (no family there, didnt go to university there etc) moved to. Some left, but lots stayed. Taxes are low, wages are high, and the mountains are a draw for lots of people. I really liked it there. I have tons of former colleagues who work there after having started out in other provinces.

I live in Winnipeg now. My wife is from here and her family is important to her. No one moves here without a connection. The job market here is better than NS but not as good as AB.

NS rarely had people move to it without a connection. The job market was terrible. You always had to know someone to get a job, and even then, it often didn't pay well.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

cainvest said:


> It would have been BC for me, almost pulled the trigger on that one a number of years back but things fellthrough.


I have been in love with BC from my earliest memory. My grand parents lived there so we went all the time.

The primary thing keeping us from BC is a lack of general practitioners.

If we were 40, we would be there now.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> I have been in love with BC from my earliest memory. My grand parents lived there so we went all the time.
> 
> The primary thing keeping us from BC is a lack of general practitioners.
> 
> If we were 40, we would be there now.


How are the mexican doctors?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I have no idea what m3s is speaking about....re: Mexican doctors. A bit of sarcasm perhaps that goes over my head.

Doctors from anywhere can be excellent based on their credentials and depending on time spent navigating and getting experience in the Canadian health system. Our own family GP is a recent (2012) immigrant from South Africa and we have no concerns about his competence. We only have him as a family GP because we were quick to sign up with his practice the moment he landed...and that has turned out to be much better than not having any family GP at all.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I used to have a Mexican GP in SK. He grew up in Mexico City where he studied medicine. He told me coming to Canada was the worst decision he ever made.

He said there was a job fair for graduates where Canada had a booth. He said Canada had the most amazing booth with a massive picture of Lake Louise. He ended up in SK, married, with chilcren, and unable to leave.

My personal experience with physicians in Mexico is limited to one interaction, but they are not second best to Canadian physicians, if that is a concern. I would be happy to be treated in either country but I prefer the healthcare system of Mexico over Canada for people who have a bit of money

We have decided against moving to Mexico but not for reasons of healthcare.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

People will move when it is to their economic or personal benefit to move.

We have lived and worked in Quebec, Ontario, Alberta, BC, and then back to Alberta. All were good places for us to live. 

We moved for the usual reasons....education, career, and personal preference when we first relocated to BC from Alberta.

We do not regret any of the moves. They were all positive.

We have traveled a fair amount over the years. Sometimes we wonder if Canadians truly appreciate what we have, our freedoms, or the opportunity that we have.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

An increasingly major impediment to re-location today, especially post-pandemic, has been the step change deterioration in health care. BC went from having one of the better provincial health care systems just 5-10 years ago to among the worst today. Getting a family GP is virtually impossible and BC Cancer has fallen to the bottom of the list in terms of wait times for an oncologist AND for subsequent radiation treatment and chemotherapy. The system here has essentially collapsed in 2.5 years and our health minister is fiddling while Rome burns.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Jason Kenney and his UCP government fu'ked the healthcare system in AB. Many doctors, nurses, technologists and health care workers left AB for other provinces. There are many ERs in AB closed and reduced their hours due to staff shortages. Wait times are significantly higher. It takes 4 to 5 hours for ambulances in Calgary. Yesterday I heard on the news that the UCP govt has created a three person panel to improve the healthcare system aka making it private for their buddies that they can steal it. 

Those who bought houses in 2014/2015, they just recovered their prices this year. This year's GDP forecast is 4.9% whereas the forecast is 3.2% for 2023. Those who are planning to come here, caveat emptor.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

scorpion_ca said:


> Jason Kenney and his UCP government fu'ked the healthcare system in AB. Many doctors, nurses, technologists and health care workers left AB for other provinces.


Yeah, well, all those "_doctors, nurses, technologists and health care workers left AB for other provinces"_ never arrived because every province has the exact same problem, and it's a federal problem that needs to be addressed, and it's our strict adherence to this public health care system that no one seems willing to change to include private health care. It's that simple.

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Public or private..........how would that fill shortages of doctors and nurses ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There aren't enough wealthy sick people to support a private healthcare system. If there were, I would support an adjacent private system.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I have no idea what m3s is speaking about....re: Mexican doctors. A bit of sarcasm perhaps that goes over my head.
> 
> Doctors from anywhere can be excellent based on their credentials and depending on time spent navigating and getting experience in the Canadian health system. Our own family GP is a recent (2012) immigrant from South Africa and we have no concerns about his competence. We only have him as a family GP because we were quick to sign up with his practice the moment he landed...and that has turned out to be much better than not having any family GP at all.


It was an honest question. Sarcasm is reserved for the non-sense off their rocker posts

I intend to live in other countries soon and my biggest question is healthcare as I have travelled/lived overseas enough to understand most other aspects. I'm also just getting to the age where checkups become more frequent and invasive.

It's also more of a long term question. He mentioned that he would go to BC in 40s but not now. Considering it will take me years to get a GP anywhere is Canada I figure I might as well look for one in another country

The cost is not really a factor anymore which also makes Canadian healthcare less desirable. There is a noticeable difference to private healthcare (I lived in the US for years)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)




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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> There aren't enough wealthy sick people to support a private healthcare system. If there were, I would support an adjacent private system.


In Europe there are many countries with public / private partnership systems that work quite well. Unfortunately, in Canada, many have your attitude and it makes it hard to reform our system. You see it as a zero/one situation and it's not. Private systems can work quite well with the public system and it increases the efficiency (which is the case with just about every business that isn't government run).

An example. You get a blood request slip from your doctor and you take it to a lab like DynaCare and they run the tests in a timely fashion and bill the government. Guess what - DynaCare is a private lab that makes a profit, and so you can walk in any time and get your blood test without a delay. See, that didn't hurt did it? 

There are score of situations in our terrible public system that could be assigned to the private sector that they don't presently allow. It's only attitudes that stop it from happening.

ltr


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> Public or private..........how would that fill shortages of doctors and nurses ?


You only need to look at dentists. Are there enough dentists? Yes, probably too many. It's private. Our socialist government is trying their best to bring that availability of dentistry to an end, but for now it works just fine.

ltr


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Don't we have public and private schools already? Not to mention religious schools and home schools

You can basically pay extra for private school or opt out for homeschool or opt to learn the non-scientific version if you believe in something else

With our current public only healthcare system you just get to wait for years. Imagine you had to wait for the government to fix your car


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Another issue I have written about before is too many Canadians have a GP that is similar in age to themselves or older. What good is that going to do you when you are 70 years of age, about the time when most actually need a physician on a regular basis?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

There's some interesting podcasts about medical data getting better thanks to all the wearable smart devices

I have extensive sleep, weight, heartrate/variability data etc and now blood oxygen and even VO2 max. It's only getting better now there are temp sensors that help especially with girls tracking girl things. There are countless stories of people being queued by their watch that something is wrong especially the heart rate monitor. This gives far more data to your Dr and they are using it in the US now

It's also end-to-end encrypted unlike most data because the US govt want to read all your other data. I think it will become more accepted and expected in coming years to track your own vitals


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> I don't find it odd for AB to advertise the attractiveness and benefits of moving to AB. Purchasing power goes much further in AB than many other locations. It is part of AB's diversification drive into technology, distribution, high value added manufacturing, financial services et al. Such advertising also gets the attention of corporations who might consider a move to AB. A most recent example is that of De Havilland building a large manufacturing facility just east of Calgary.
> 
> Another million or two of additional working population to its current 4.5 million base in non-O&G related jobs in AB would bolster that drive to diversification. It is especially important as more and more of the conventional O&G industry shrinks as reservoirs dry up and economics decline. There is lots of room for business growth in AB given lower corporate taxes, lack of a provincial sales tax, and overall lower cost of living. It's biggest downside is transportation costs to markets but that can be mitigated by focusing on higher valued products (goods and services) over resources.
> 
> @Beaver101 obviously does not know AB is already full of SK transplants and also a strong smattering of MB and Atlantic Canada transplants. It also has a strong following of BC workers. Almost all retired boomers here in our region have adult sons and daughters living and working professional jobs in AB, plus there is still a substantial number of BC residents who work 'camp' jobs in the oil sands and transit through various BC airports. I gave up my nuclear engineering career in ON in 1979 for a better O&G opportunity in AB.


Amazon also built a giant warehouse and distortion centre in Alberta. Calgary was rated the number 1 city in the Western Hemisphere by the Economist publication. Then you also have beautiful world class parks and great locations for sking. Housing is a fraction of the costs of Toronto . Edmonton has been rated a number times by Maclean's as having the number 1 healthcare resources in Canada.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I am curious what the cost for professional movers is. Say a 4 bedroom home, full service move with packing, Toronto to Calgary.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Private diagnostic clinics aren’t the problem or a solution.

The very long waiting lists for treatment are the problem.

Our son had all kind of tests for his back, and has been waiting over a year to hear from the surgeon’s office for an assessment appointment, never mind an actual future treatment date.

They know what the problem is but there is nobody to fix it.

People are dying on waiting lists for surgery for cancer, heart, and other issues.

There is a severe shortage of specialists and hospital beds.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> There is a severe shortage of specialists and hospital beds.


In Canada


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

In the US people with little or no health insurance don’t seek treatment and go on waiting lists.

They take opiates and die at home.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Gator13 said:


> I am curious what the cost for professional movers is. Say a 4 bedroom home, full service move with packing, Toronto to Calgary.


I am guessing in the $20k range but much (or all) of that would usually be borne by the new employer. No one with a 4 bedroom home (meaning family) just ups and moves without an employment contract already in hand at the new location.

To get back to the original post for a moment, I have seen a number of adverts from time to time from most provinces soliciting both companies and individuals. Just not necessarily on subway trains. Most know social media is where it is at today. Solicitations ebb and flow depending on the local economy at a given time, strategies to support growth, etc, etc.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

All the data tracking is useless if you can’t see a specialist for treatment.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Unless you're retiring. No employer will be picking up the tab. Thanks for the guesstimate.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Moving expenses, and real estate sales commissions are tax deductible if you move for work.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> *People are dying on waiting lists* for surgery for cancer, heart, and other issues.
> 
> There is a severe shortage of specialists and hospital beds.





sags said:


> In the US people with little or no health insurance don’t seek treatment and go on waiting lists.
> 
> *They take opiates and die at home.*


What's the difference of dying on a waiting list and dying at home?

At least in the US you have the chance to earn money to have access to health care


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Back to healthcare... I'm in Calgary, right now, and everyone is talking about how bad healthcare is. One person badly sprained their fingers about a year ago and it was months to see a specialist. They are two months into treatment.

I love how no one seems to know what might be wrong with healthcare. It could be anything. It will be a mystery for the ages. Lol.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I work for a big professional services firm, like now more than 70,000 employees globally.

If you are mobile ( and usually single) there are opportunities to work in other geographic areas

Typically you have 5-8 years in after your undergrad degree and have full local professional credentials.

Makes it a lot easier to get temporary 'foreign' licenses.

Company will pay for basic foreign language training, but you do it on your own time separate from work hours. 

Company pays to send you, and provides short term accommodation . 

Sometimes it is three months and you come back and keep supporting the local team you met there. 

Other times it is extendable, usually to a year. After that you need to pick and some choose to pick the new team, particularly if work is not as busy in the home market.

If you can funnel billable work in they are happy to have you stay as long as the grass stays green.

I did this from 1999-2003, more as a local funnel to direct work back to the home office. I got sent from Mississauga to Brisbane Australia where they were first planning and then later building the first of a network of dedicated roads for buses. 

It was a busy time, but a great opportunity. My wife, expecting our first child at the time came with me, and we had a great time there, living on the companies dime in terms of a vehicle and rental house. Came back to Canada with a two year old, and our second child on the way. With money saved bought a modest house with a pretty small mortgage one salary could handle. 

So don't pass up a chance to travel for work some when you are young. It can open up opportunities you may not find in your home market.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

zinfit said:


> Amazon also built a giant warehouse and distortion centre in Alberta. Calgary was rated the number 1 city in the Western Hemisphere by the Economist publication. Then you also have beautiful world class parks and great locations for sking. Housing is a fraction of the costs of Toronto . Edmonton has been rated a number times by Maclean's as having the number 1 healthcare resources in Canada.


Amazon has huge warehouses all over Canada. Over a dozen in Ontario. You really should think of Amazon as a brick and mortar retailer, whose stores are 1M sq ft warehouses.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Yes on the Amazon front lots of warehouse space. In the GTA there are presently at least four 'YYZ's as they term them. I put in express service bus stops on Steeles Ave for two of them 8 years ago, and now we have to move some of them because the road needs to be widened to cope with growing traffic demand. Get on Google maps for Steeles and Winston Churchill.

Another big one is a new in last 5 years Wayfair warehouse at Bramalea and Derry in Mississauga. Looks like a white rectangle in satellite view then you zoom in and realize the things that look like match sticks are actually tractor trailer vans. A big FedEx distribution centre is across the street.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

TomB16 said:


> Back to healthcare... I'm in Calgary, right now, and everyone is talking about how bad healthcare is. One person badly sprained their fingers about a year ago and it was months to see a specialist. They are two months into treatment.
> 
> I love how no one seems to know what might be wrong with healthcare. It could be anything. It will be a mystery for the ages. Lol.


Edmonton might be the healthiest horse in the glue factory. Our beloved Canadian healthcare system nis a whole separate discussion. I have an aorta aneurysm and recently had a detached Retina and the response from Calgary for these issues has been first rate. Now my arithithic knee is a very different matter.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Ponderling said:


> Yes on the Amazon front lots of warehouse space. In the GTA there are presently at least four 'YYZ's as they term them. I put in express service bus stops on Steeles Ave for two of them 8 years ago, and now we have to move some of them because the road needs to be widened to cope with growing traffic demand. Get on Google maps for Steeles and Winston Churchill.
> 
> Another big one is a new in last 5 years Wayfair warehouse at Bramalea and Derry in Mississauga. Looks like a white rectangle in satellite view then you zoom in and realize the things that look like match sticks are actually tractor trailer vans. A big FedEx distribution centre is across the street.


I see YYZ3 and YYZ4 there  Now this is how I picture Mississauga


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Ponderling said:


> I work for a big professional services firm, like now more than 70,000 employees globally.
> 
> If you are mobile ( and usually single) there are opportunities to work in other geographic areas
> 
> ...


My SIL started this way. She never came back. Went to Hong Kong for several years. Then Switzerland. Then London. After that Dubai, Moscow. And now Spain. Learned a number of languages along the way. Completed her doctorate and is now in Valencia working for the Spanish Government.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> What's the difference of dying on a waiting list and dying at home?
> 
> At least in the US you have the chance to earn money to have access to health care


 ... and yet you're still here in Canada, supposedly in the beloved province of Ontario. Why's that? 

Is it because of Ford's attractive (advertised) quote "Open For Business". I think he should have added the words "Scammers" to complete it.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

People often live in places they do not particularly like for career or family reasons. Been there and done that a number of times. 

I typically respect posts that can be critical on where they live than the apparent lack of objectivity from those that cheer lead where they live or what they own. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> People often live in places they do not particularly like for career or family reasons. Been there and done that a number of times.
> 
> I typically respect posts that can be critical on where they live than the apparent lack of objectivity from those that cheer lead where they live or what they own. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.


 ... nothing beautiful about a boomer-basher and crypto-pusher, never mind about giving "respects". I think I'm gonna puke.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... nothing beautiful about a boomer-basher and crypto-pusher, never mind about giving "respects". I think I'm gonna puke.


My comment was strictly about post content, not the person writing the post overall. I have some CMF members on "Ignore" for obvious reasons and a few others are borderline trolls. We each have our own threshold of tolerable signal to noise ratio.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> think I'm gonna puke.


That sounds like long omicron.

Please self quarantine from this thread.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

After high school many of my friends/classmates ventured to AB to participate in the booming economy. They bought houses, made lots of money. Some stayed, some came back. Many that stayed was because their family (retired parents, siblings) moved there to join them. Those that came back in their late 30s, sold their homes, bought a bigger house, and cottage mortgage free. Others bought a home and a rental property. More recently others (last 18 months), mostly in health care, moved closer to where they grew up to take care of aging parents, work in smaller hospitals or public health.

The reason AB is advertising to young Ontarians is because they need workers. SK, BC, MB and the Maritimes are already aware of what AB has to offer. Those that are interested are already there working or residing. 

Unfortunately, everywhere one can live has benefits and drawbacks. One has to make their decision the best they can with what they know. Either it is a good move, a horrible move or a tolerable move. I don't live a life of regret as I do not know what the outcome would be if I made different choices but at times I wonder what life would be like if I had moved to *____*. There is a lot to love and a lot loathe about where I live. Living somewhere would be different but not necessarily better or worse. I found happiness is a state of mind, not location. One can be miserable in paradise just as easily where they are now.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> That sounds like long omicron.


 ... it may be as I'm still suffering from the long effects of Omicron's cousin, the annual flu from decades+ ago.



> Please self quarantine from this thread.


 ... just how am I supposed to that when I opened up the thread? Or having long Omicron? You tell me expert, on how to unload long Omicron then, aka the flu-cousin?

By "puking", I didn't mean AltaRed but the poster whom he responded right after I responded on directly.

I still want to know why m3s (as he claimed) wants to reside in "Ontario" if he thinks it's not the "right" place for him ... to make a buck. I mean everything else to him sucks here - the healthcare, the housing, too many boomers/old farts and cows or whatever else he hates, etc. except for the mighty "real" Dollar. Funny enough it ain't crypto.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> I still want to know why m3s (as he claimed) wants to reside in "Ontario" if he thinks it's not the "right" place for him ... to make a buck. I mean everything else to him sucks here - the healthcare, the housing, too many boomers/old farts and cows or whatever else he hates, etc. except for the mighty "real" Dollar. Funny enough it ain't crypto.


I don't

They way you just took @TomB16 literally explains why you don't understand

Are you self-aware that you often misunderstand like this?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> I don't


 ... I don't what? Are you answering my question or are you just saying "I don't" leaving me to guess what's next?



> They way you just took @TomB16 literally explains why you don't understand
> 
> Are you self-aware that you often misunderstand like this?


 ... are you self-aware that you allege others of misunderstanding when you intentionally talked half=assed, perfect latest example is above "I don't". Don't what? Don't live in Ontario or live in Ontario.

Last chance to say "yes" or "no" or do those 2 answer won't suffice like TomB16 "literally" "explains"? No need to explain anything with other than a yes or no to the question which can't get simpler than that. Or is that too hard for you to answer or in need to weasel out of?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Last chance to say "yes" or "no" or do those 2 answer won't suffice like TomB16 "literally" "explains"? No need to explain anything with other than a yes or no to the question which can't get simpler than that. Or is that too hard for you to answer or in need to weasel out of?


Yes


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... *Question:* Why don't Alberta poach its own neighbours like British Columbia, Saskatchewan and or Manitoba? Hell, that's already 3 provinces more than Ontario!
> 
> *Answer:* That's because Albertans think Ontarians are a bunch of suckers to join them hill-billies.


Nothing as silly as that. I suspect it's because whatever advertising in the more local areas has not brought enough people to Alberta. I suspect that Ontario is in the mix because that is where people have moved from in the past.

Given I know people who moved from NL to Alberta, it wouldn't surprise me if there are Alberta ad in the maritimes.




andrewf said:


> I think it is a bit odd that Alberta feels the need to advertise to attract residents.


Over the last three decades, I have seen both Alberta and Ontario advertise for residents so I don't find it strange at all.


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Ponderling said:


> Yes on the Amazon front lots of warehouse space. In the GTA there are presently at least four 'YYZ's as they term them. I put in express service bus stops on Steeles Ave for two of them 8 years ago, and now we have to move some of them because the road needs to be widened to cope with growing traffic demand. Get on Google maps for Steeles and Winston Churchill.
> 
> Another big one is a new in last 5 years Wayfair warehouse at Bramalea and Derry in Mississauga. Looks like a white rectangle in satellite view then you zoom in and realize the things that look like match sticks are actually tractor trailer vans. A big FedEx distribution centre is across the street.


There are 4 just in the WC/Steeles area.

There is nothing special about Amazon warehouses, other than online retail is very labour intensive and they employ a lot of people. But there are dozens or hundreds of large facilities like this near the 401 in Mississauga/Brampton.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... then why aren't those SK, MB and Atlantic Canada transplants "staying" there to start up families?
> 
> I mean I have Ontario friends and their friends who have kids as "transplants" with the Albertan government on a municipal level (city planner, architect). They only stayed there for a couple of years before yearning to be back in "Ontario" ...


You'd have to ask them - though distance to family has typically been a major factor for those I know who have moved back from Alberta or moved to Alberta.




Beaver101 said:


> ... Jobs are short-lived there which in turn means housing-stays too ...


Some yes but a lot more no, of those I know.

And a fair number of those that moved out out Alberta that I know were transferred by their company to the US, Oakville and elsewhere.


Major shifts can happen like the oil downturn while Ontario manufacturing was looking for employees but it varies.


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eclectic21 said:


> Over the last three decades, I have seen both Alberta and Ontario advertise for residents so I don't find it strange at all.


Ontario has almost the opposite problem of being too appealing and having too many migrants. The GTA is one of/the fastest growing metros in North America. 80% of immigrants to Ontario settle in the GTA. The GTA is projected to grow from 7M residents in 2019 to 10M by 2046. This might even be on the low side, as provincial projections have underestimated growth over the past decade. 130k people moved to the GTA in 2019. In other words, Toronto is going to add a Calgary and an Edmonton to its population in the next couple decades.

Frankly, it would be kind of crazy for Ontario to be aggressively trying to attract more people. We need to focus on making the growth we are experiencing livable. Infrastructure investment, making housing accessible, making neighbourhoods more walkable and less car dependent. We aren't going to build 50% more highway lane km, so 50% population growth needs to be absorbed with non-car trips. Increasing livability, affordability and upward mobility (recognizing foreign training/credentials and assisting integration with language training etc.) will be all the advertising Ontario needs to keep people coming.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

The population of Yukon (+12.1%) grew at the fastest pace nationally from 2016 to 2021.

Haven't seen any Yukon ads around ...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> The population of Yukon (+12.1%) grew at the fastest pace nationally from 2016 to 2021.
> 
> Haven't seen any Yukon ads around ...


Having travelled through Yukon in 2018-19 to live in Alaska I can see why

Yukon, Alaska and NWT are seriously badass mfers. It's like a secret escape from the absurdity of it all

Once Starlink enables low latency affordable internet anywhere this will only increase imo


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Having travelled through Yukon in 2018-19 to live in Alaska I can see why
> 
> Yukon, Alaska and NWT are seriously badass mfers. It's like a secret escape from the absurdity of it all
> 
> Once Starlink enables low latency affordable internet anywhere this will only increase imo


If you think cost of living is bad in Ontario...


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

cainvest said:


> The population of Yukon (+12.1%) grew at the fastest pace nationally from 2016 to 2021.
> 
> Haven't seen any Yukon ads around ...


This piece has a bit of bias but it does speak to economic opportunities, partly to do increased mining activity. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-census-2022-population-growth-housing-crisis-1.6349010

Plus a more data intensive view from StatsCan. People, for a large part, go where the economic opportunities are. Alaska is similar, having lived and worked there for 2 years. There is some attraction for those who don't want much to do with society but that doesn't explain that the bulk of the population increases are in the major centres, i.e. Whitehorse (YK) and Anchorage (AK).


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> If you think cost of living is bad in Ontario...


Yea luckily work paid all my expenses

I'd definitely rather live somewhere warm especially when I can work online

If you're willing to move and have job prospects it's fun to experience though


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Also I spent a night downtown Whitehorse on the way up and back

Both times there were sketchy drugged up natives fighting in the streets while the RCMP watch from a distance

It's kind of like an arctic San Francisco lawlessness to it


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

andrewf said:


> ... Frankly, it would be kind of crazy for Ontario to be aggressively trying to attract more people ...


It's provincial gov't advertising so I suspect how loud business has been and how connected they are to the provincial gov't of the day would be a big factor. 


Cheers


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

As much as my wife and I dislike living in SK, and we really do, SK is a pretty place.

When CanadaLife moved to Regina, so many of the folks complained there is nothing here but a brief inquiry always revealed they drove the TransCanada with blinders on, pulled into their apartment, and started complaining.

There is a lot of good in SK. Its too bad about the drugs and crime.

Last night, a paramedic friend in Calgary was telling us about horrendous drugs and crime on Calgary. He showed us his bullet wound scar. Pretty cool.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> As much as my wife and I dislike living in SK, and we really do, SK is a pretty place.
> 
> When CanadaLife moved to Regina, so many of the folks complained there is nothing here but a brief inquiry always revealed they drove the TransCanada with blinders on, pulled into their apartment, and started complaining.
> 
> There is a lot of good in SK. Its too bad about the drugs and crime.


100% As of late I have grown a dislike for the province. I think it more related to general attitudes of the populace than anything. Not sure if it is post-pandemic hangover. Anecdotally, I hear it is the same elsewhere. 

I enjoy the summers here and the geography is very diverse. Most do not realize it isn't just wheatfields. I often wonder if the drugs and crime is any different than elsewhere. I guess it would be dependent on the metrics used per capita vs. number of occurrences and location. I wonder how the crime rates of these towns and cities compare to those of similar sizes across the country.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We certainly do not like the politics in Alberta. Nor do we like the divisions that are being created by some Alberta politicians for their own self interest and benefit.

It seems to me that Alberta for all the self serving patting on the back and beating on the chest politicians is becoming more 'provincial' and more insulated as each day passes.

Much more so than any Province where we have lived with the exception of Quebec during the War Measures Act period.

We certainly do not like many of the political changes over the past 20 post Lougheed years.

IMHO it is not a healthy political or social environment. Very mean spirited, insulated, narrow view.

Not surprising that so many of the Freedom Convoy leaders came from here and still call Alberta home. They are an embarrassment to most Albertans.

Still, it remains a good place to bring up a family. Just depends on where in the Province you happen to live.


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## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

I have no problem with Alberta highlighting what they have to offer, whats the big deal??

I live in Ontario and the cost of real estate, taxes, and brutal traffic anywhere around the GTA, really turn me off and make we want to move elsewhere. Had some close family move and leave to a remote area of BC and they are absolutely loving it.

Lately what I have really noticed is a lot of cities are putting in "safe injection sites" for drugs and I am seeing a big correlation to these poor individuals high as a kite walking around in city centers. I think this acceptance and normalization of such behaviour isnt helping these poor souls and also its deterring people from keeping vibrant downtown cores etc..I hope that doesnt offend anyone that I said that, I am just noting an observation. By others posts it sounds like every province needs to do more to deter drug use..

I literally want to move to an acreage outside of town but cant afford it...


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The bottom line is Alberta desperately needs skilled workers. All trades. Most especially nurses, physicians, those in the health care professions. Hard to recruit the latter when the Province has such a poor reputation in this area.

Alberta is still a long way off from stemming the exodus and/or the early retirement of health care professionals. There is going to be some long term hurt in this segment that will negatively impact the lives of Albertans to a greater extent than it is at the current time. Sadly, this situation is very much self inflicted.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Gumball said:


> Lately what I have really noticed is a lot of cities are putting in "safe injection sites" for drugs and I am seeing a big correlation to these poor individuals high as a kite walking around in city centers. I think this acceptance and normalization of such behaviour isnt helping these poor souls and also its deterring people from keeping vibrant downtown cores etc..I hope that doesnt offend anyone that I said that, I am just noting an observation. By others posts it sounds like every province needs to do more to deter drug use..


There are few good options. Safe injection sites are far less costly than paramedics, police and hospitals continually dealing with drug overdoses, many?most? habitual re-offenders. A massive investment in mental health would make a difference but the bean counters won't have a basis of measuring the results of the investment except for trends over a long period of time.

In the good ol' days, these folk would be just left to die..... or shot on sight for theft/harassment, etc to feed their habit. It would at least eliminate repeat offenders.

P.S. Many die anyway. Locally, we had 5 drug overdose deaths alone in 9 hours on this past Saturday morning/afternoon. I have no idea how many others were treated for survival but you can bet our ambulance services were tied up extraordinarily potentially making them unavailable for other emergencies.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Drugs are a problem everywhere.

Our city spends copious dollars on endless downtown "revitalization" plans........and all they do is make it more comfortable for the druggies to hang around.

I drive through the city sometimes to see what is going on......and the druggies are down the back alleys, lying in front of boarded up stores, stumbling around.

I remember there was a resort in northern Ontario where the druggies could go to dry out and kick their habit. They got a chance to atv, fish, and keep busy.

We need to create more of those to give people a chance. Making the downtown a nicer lounge for them isn't working.

We should send them there when they commit a crime instead of filling up our prisons.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

TomB16 said:


> As much as my wife and I dislike living in SK, and we really do, SK is a pretty place.
> 
> When CanadaLife moved to Regina, so many of the folks complained there is nothing here but a brief inquiry always revealed they drove the TransCanada with blinders on, pulled into their apartment, and started complaining.
> 
> ...


Toronto is immune from this problem?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

zinfit said:


> Toronto is immune from this problem?


 ... short answer: no 

Longer answer: we, Toronto, inherited gang-bangers from the every part of the country. 

Our mayor's response every weekend is either with "this is unacceptable" or "this is very troubling" for the past God know how many weeks ... if not more than a year ... only to see nothing resolved despite "talking to the police chief". On what????


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## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> There are few good options. Safe injection sites are far less costly than paramedics, police and hospitals continually dealing with drug overdoses, many?most? habitual re-offenders. A massive investment in mental health would make a difference but the bean counters won't have a basis of measuring the results of the investment except for trends over a long period of time.
> 
> In the good ol' days, these folk would be just left to die..... or shot on sight for theft/harassment, etc to feed their habit. It would at least eliminate repeat offenders.
> 
> P.S. Many die anyway. Locally, we had 5 drug overdose deaths alone in 9 hours on this past Saturday morning/afternoon. I have no idea how many others were treated for survival but you can bet our ambulance services were tied up extraordinarily potentially making them unavailable for other emergencies.


Its very sad and I dont have the answer - but i feel its inhumane to allow people to wallow in thes


Beaver101 said:


> ... short answer: no
> 
> Longer answer: we, Toronto, inherited gang-bangers from the every part of the country.
> 
> Our mayor's response every weekend is either with "this is unacceptable" or "this is very troubling" for the past God know how many weeks ... if not more than a year ... only to see nothing resolved despite "talking to the police chief". On what????


Well these liberals decided to go after law abiding gun owning citizens instead of tackling the gang / gun smuggling issue (which you posted about being a good thing) so why are you surprised? expect it to get worse as time goes on unless we confront our realities and put more emphasis on tackling the root of the issue (gun smuggling from USA)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Gumball said:


> Its very sad and I dont have the answer - but i feel its inhumane to allow people to wallow in thes
> 
> 
> Well these liberals decided to go after law abiding gun owning citizens instead of tackling the gang / gun smuggling issue (which you posted about being a good thing) so why are you surprised? expect it to get worse as time goes on unless we confront our realities and put more emphasis on tackling the root of the issue (gun smuggling from USA)


 ... so how is Toronto's mayor going after the "root of the problem of the gun-smugglers" in "his" city? Or how about relating his job with your biased-thinking that the "Liberals decided to go after law-abiding gun owning citizens"? Should Tory retire and let the Liberals handle his job or are you saying Trudeau should retire and let Tory handle his "jobTrudeau's" instead? Make up your mind.

Or Mayor Tory's every weekend script of "this is unacceptable", "this is troubling", "I have talked to the police chief ... (btw since last year, the year before and the previous year as you've noticed yearly increasing gun-crimes and violence" and then where are we ?????.

And don't forget, we still have a Ford tax collecting level inbetween with complete silence. Anyone alive there?


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## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so how is Toronto's mayor going after the "root of the problem of the gun-smugglers" in "his" city? Or how about relating his job with your biased-thinking that the "Liberals decided to go after law-abiding gun owning citizens"? Should Tory retire and let the Liberals handle his job or are you saying Trudeau should retire and let Tory handle his "jobTrudeau's" instead? Make up your mind.
> 
> Or Mayor Tory's every weekend script of "this is unacceptable", "this is troubling", "I have talked to the police chief ... (btw since last year, the year before and the previous year as you've noticed yearly increasing gun-crimes and violence" and then where are we ?????.
> 
> And don't forget, we still have a Ford tax collecting level inbetween with complete silence. Anyone alive there?


Tory and the Libs are one and the same - they will both do nothing to fix the problem but create an illusion they are doing things to tackle the issue.. the only thing I am saying is dont be surprised Tory keeps saying the empty quotes that you mentioned "this is unacceptable", "this is troubling" because thats all youre going to get from Tory/Trudeau/anyone in the Liberal party. I wish that wasnt the case, I wish they'd get tougher on gun crime and get at the smuggling issue at the border, but unfortunately this will never happen. If you take a step back and analyze this, you and I both want the same outcome (safe streets, less gun violence) and were both upset it wont happen - only difference is you have had the wool pulled over your eyes by the Libs.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Gumball said:


> Tory and the Libs are one and the same - they will both do nothing to fix the problem but create an illusion they are doing things to tackle the issue.. the only thing I am saying is dont be surprised Tory keeps saying the empty quotes that you mentioned "this is unacceptable", "this is troubling" because thats all youre going to get from Tory/Trudeau/anyone in the Liberal party. I wish that wasnt the case, I wish they'd get tougher on gun crime and get at the smuggling issue at the border, but unfortunately this will never happen. If you take a step back and analyze this, you and I both want the same outcome (safe streets, less gun violence) and were both upset it wont happen - only difference is you have had the wool pulled over your eyes by the Libs.


 ... no, Tory is not the same as the Liberals although thanks for your attempt to muddle-fuddle -to-fuse the two of them together with the political speak. [Just in case you aren't aware, Tory is less than half a percent of being pro-Liberal.]

Anyhow, simple question for you: what is Tory's job "exactly" as "mayor" of Toronto, the metropolitan? Not mayor of Ontario, not mayor of Canada. We already know his specialty is being a mouthpiece re the weekend scripts above.


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## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... no, Tory is not the same as the Liberals although thanks for your attempt to muddle-fuddle -to-fuse the two of them together with the political speak. [Just in case you aren't aware, Tory is less than half a percent of being pro-Liberal.]
> 
> Anyhow, simple question for you: what is Tory's job "exactly" as "mayor" of Toronto, the metropolitan? Not mayor of Ontario, not mayor of Canada. We already know his specialty is being a mouthpiece re the weekend scripts above.


Job as mayor is to do whats best for the city - clearly he doesnt feel compelled to do that, as you can attest to with his empty statements on gun voilence. Perhaps if he wasnt a Lib and perhaps if he cared for the city he would be vocal about what many high ranking officers and police chiefs have been stating - 99% of gun crimes are committed with smuggled weapons, and perhaps he would challenge other politicians to rally around this cause. I guess thats all I can really say, but if you want to keep going around in circles if tory is a lib or not then feel free, but not sure what else I can say at this point.

I feel like i hijacked this thread now, apologies to anyone bothered by that.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Gumball said:


> Job as mayor is to do whats best for the city - clearly he doesnt feel compelled to do that, as you can attest to with his empty statements on gun voilence. Perhaps if he wasnt a Lib and perhaps if he cared for the city he would be vocal about what many high ranking officers and police chiefs have been stating - 99% of gun crimes are committed with smuggled weapons, and *perhaps he would challenge other politicians to rally around this cause. *I guess thats all I can really say, but if you want to keep going around in circles if tory is a lib or not then feel free, but not sure what else I can say at this point.
> 
> I feel like i hijacked this thread now, apologies to anyone bothered by that.


 ... I'm not going around in circles with Tory is a Lib or not ... you're the one who started with the Liberals' policy about going after law-abiding gun owners when I was specifically talking about the job of a "mayor" of a city. 

And only now you have part of the/your own answer (in bold above) and so why don't he rally around "those other politicians" to the "growing" guns-problem in the city? Instead of just saying "I talked to the police chief"... and what did the police chief say? Sounds like "it ain't my problem, it's the Fed's problem" in line with your reference that the "Libs" are going after the law-abiding gun owners. If this info helps at all, the Gangs and Guns Taskforce(s) have been created by TPS for decades now and where is it at? Defunded? I don't see my tax dollars going down for that sector, in fact, the total opposite if not making the bulk of it.

Is this how the left-hand talk to the right-hand if they do talk at all? No wonder nothing gets done.... and I get it's always easiest to pick the lowest hanging fruit. That's called management (or upper echelon's) expertise.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

More people are fleeing Ontario – and moving to Alberta

I wonder if our (Ontario's) premier is worried about this trend if the article is accurate?

And why the need for poachment or the "ad" if this (fleeing Ontarians for Alberta) was the case. I'm scratching my head.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think I saw a group of several hundred terrifed people "fleeing" Ontario in the westbound lane the other day.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Unfortunately, left all the flotsams with guns here, particularly in Toronto. I don't think it'll be too long before a sub (and I don't mean a sandwich) is pulled out to mow down the crowds over at Eaton Center.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

A little random shooting never hurt anyone.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> A little random shooting never hurt anyone.


 ...as long as it's in somebody else's town, it's okay.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

zinfit said:


> Toronto is immune from this problem?


I never said I wanted to move to Toronto. 

There are a few places in the GTA I would live, however.

I wouldn't want to live in many neighbourhoods in Vancouver, either. ... or Edmonton.

There are a few places in the GVA I would live, also. Edmonton... not so much but I'm sure it has some nice areas and there are some nice bedroom communities not far from Edmonton.

The same can probably be said for Saskatoon and Regina. Maybe I'm just bored of SK. For some reason, it still annoys me when people start explaining how horrible and desolate SK is and can offer nothing but a blank stare when asked if they have been to Waskesiu, Cypress, the northern lakes, and any number of other beautiful places.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

Retired1 said:


> “jobs are short lived” in Alberta?
> I arrived in Calgary from Toronto /London Ontario in 1982. After a 36 year career I retired…in Calgary. I only go back to Ontario when visiting family. I would never live there again.


Before I jump here, let me say here:

Born in Hamilton, grew up in K-W, educated at U of W, then UWO in London, worked, biked and lived in Toronto for total nearly first 40 years in southern Ontario, 8+ yrs.in VAncouver BC and now in Calgary for past 12 yrs. I will say this:


there might a perception that southern Ontarians have slightly negative impression of Albertans because unfortunately of certain long-time political tendencies. And the oil-gas economy. In all honesty, it was good that Mayor Nenshi was around for awhile (no matter what one thinks of him): he called out local ******** and helped position *Calgary internationally* as maybe the city/province has some locals people who could speak intelligently in full sentences, without spouting rural Albertan old-time thinking and who may be afraid of folks who don't look like them. Now for past 20 yrs.: lots of non-white people coming from across CAnada and elsewhere....to live, work and contribute to Alberta. Remember, quite a number of them ARE Canadians.
Albertans who have never lived elsewhere and their whole family in the province: don't quite understand the critical, economic diverse power base, and intellectual capital that exists in Ontario. Look Alberta only has 2 major universities, 2 major cities. Ontario has over: 10 major long-established major research universities, several major cities, several major technical colleges (universities to me, is a misnomer) which pumps up graduates from major STEM disciplines and no wonder why venture /start-ups exist in the Golden Horseshoe. No wonder why major foreign tech. firms went to Ontario *first  *to recruit, establish Canadian national presence. They did not come to Calgary though Calgary Economic Development was courting them publicly and heavily. That came later....approx. 4-5 years later.
So I wish some Albertans weren't so clueless and ready to attack Ontario. The oil and gas sector is important but it isn't the only thing that drives Canada.
Ontarians are not better nor worse than Albertans. 
I do sense alot of long time Albertans don't choose to visit Ontario, Quebec nor Maritimes, unless they have family / good friends. To me, that signals a lack of not quite understanding some beautiful areas to visit and different, still enjoyable history to learn and appreciate. The arts scene in Toronto and Montreal is very dynamic...year-round with alot of choice. Arts thought leadership comes from the Ontario in terms of courage in a sustained way. Calgary lacks sustainment in this area....and sometimes things feel like an imitation of what was expressed 5 yrs. ago in another part of CAnada. 
We have an enormous amount to experience and learn across Canada's regions. Alot I feel enormously privileged/humbled have lived in 3 contrasting regions of Canada. I learned things that I never knew until I lived in the area. All the reading on Internet is not quite a substitute.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

TomB16 said:


> I never said I wanted to move to Toronto.
> 
> There are a few places in the GTA I would live, however.
> 
> ...


Siblings and parent each live in desirable Toronto neighbourhoods.... older homes with leafy mature trees, quiet/traffic calmed streets ...and only 15 min. walk to subway, parks, bike/walking paths, etc. I know they are desired areas based on rankings from local magazines.

They each bought well over 20 yrs. ago. I'm pretty certain quite a number of people here would love these homes/neighbourhoods. No cookie cutter homes.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

sags said:


> Glad to see Alberta is diversifying their economy.
> 
> We have family in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan. I prefer my wife's home Province of Saskatchewan because it is bland as all get out.
> 
> ...


Your wife probably doesn't want to be marooned out on a farm since she grew up there. People can tell us all about the wonders of farm living but unless a person actually wants to look after farm (either do the work or pay people) and then do lots of driving to do stuff, it's not ideal for young people who need experience life elsewhere for awhile to see if their future is elsewhere or back on the farm. 

My partner grew up north of Toronto. He was a bit critical how limiting life was in a village since teenagers just hung around and didn't do much. He was offered by an uncle to inherit a bakery back in Germany. No way for him. Instead he graduated from civil engineering Uof T and then did his MBA. His career was @national oil firm.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

No one who lives relatively continuously in one place for a very long time can have an objective view of anywhere else. There is nothing to measure it against on a personal basis. Visiting helps but visits are not the same as living in a place for multi-years. There is no question that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have far more depth in the arts, multi-culturaliism and downtown walkable living than can anywhere else in Canada. I saw it for myself for the 10 years or so of living in the GTA including what was then called the City of Toronto (not the boroughs).

At the same time, folks from those cities that have not experienced living in some of the other cities in Canada, especially in the west, cannot appreciate cities like Calgary and Edmonton have become multi-cultural and exceed 1M residents in their own right. The majority of Edmontonians and Calgarians are from somewhere else in Canada and live different lives than the rest of Alberta. It is not unlike the Rep vs Dem vote in the USA where cities are highly Democratic and rural areas Republican. Just have to look at the Dec 6th vote in Georgia to get the picture.

It is just there is not the downtown density to support a strong night life in either of Calgary and Edmonton so most everyone goes home at night, or primarily go downtown at night to go directly to the theatre, or to selected nightclub/restaurant/pub districts that are mere blocks in length. Downtown Toronto was pretty dead in the early '70s too when there were only about 2M people in the metro area. I know cause I was in my 20s then.

Bashing is popular but it mostly comes from a position of ignorance.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

AltaRed said:


> At the same time, folks from those cities that have not experienced living in some of the other cities in Canada, especially in the west, cannot appreciate cities like Calgary and Edmonton have become multi-cultural and exceed 1M residents in their own right. The majority of Edmontonians and Calgarians are from somewhere else in Canada and live different lives than the rest of Alberta. It is not unlike the Rep vs Dem vote in the USA where cities are highly Democratic and rural areas Republican. Just have to look at the Dec 6th vote in Georgia to get the picture.
> 
> It is just there is not the downtown density to support a strong night life in either of Calgary and Edmonton so most everyone goes home at night, or primarily go downtown at night to go directly to the theatre, or to selected nightclub/restaurant/pub districts that are mere blocks in length. Downtown Toronto was pretty dead in the early '70s too when there were only about 2M people in the metro area. I know cause I was in my 20s then.
> 
> Bashing is popular but it mostly comes from a position of ignorance.


Very true Calgary and Edmonton are very different from rest of Alberta. Calgary is now 1.3+ million. I work for the city. And honest, if I didn't, I would feel even more disconnected from Calgary. Yes, one does learn enormously from working within govn't...especially when the city is trying push forward some progressive ideas for the city's long-term viability and liveability. As a result, I do participate in public engagement forums in my neighbourhood. 

I do see some inherent flaws which put us at disadvantage for future...surface level LRT...which one can't have change traffic signalling..ie. pedestrian activated signals downtown, etc. if we wish to bring more people/biz into downtown. Imagine if Toronto had surface level LRT (well streetcars do count) vs. subway. Traffic would be even far more chaotic.

Then Calgary overbuilt of 15+ overhead walkway bridges that deaden street life/pedestrian. That infrastructure has become a liability in terms of costs during covid and now, still during hybrid work when there's just less foot traffic for local biz there inside.  Handy for winter but now less people working full-time in those areas.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

I still believe Toronto is highly innovative, yes faster paced (well, heck what would you think of a big American city. No different. We have to get over it. Wouldn't you want Canada's biggest city to be fast moving also??), lots of creative-minded folks....and alot more folks willing to be courageous to speak out with a social conscience for a long, sustained time and act by implementing innovative programs to assist.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

I moved to Alberta and hated everything about it. After three months, I came back to Toronto


My trek to Edmonton ended up being an expensive mid-life crisis




torontolife.com


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

scorpion_ca said:


> I moved to Alberta and hated everything about it. After three months, I came back to Toronto
> 
> 
> My trek to Edmonton ended up being an expensive mid-life crisis
> ...


She is right, that Calgary and Edmonton is a whole less active than Toronto area, in terms of night life and cultural activities year round. I lived and worked in Toronto for 18 yrs. Unless one does alot of outdoor sports (I cycle regularily probably more than other folks in this forum because I don't have car and cycling is also an enjoyable fitness for me, since I go further out), for single people, it's a bit dull and isolating to live out in the prairie suburbs or wherever she was in Edmonton. 

I was looking art courses at decent length for Calgary...just lousy choices compared to Toronto and VAncovuer. And again, quite far out...with expectation one has to have a car. It IS very different since same educational institutions are near efficient transit routes.

I'm not sure I agree with type of jobs here in Calgary for just trades and technical. It helps to have a strong skill that cuts cross multiple industries. I wonder if she was interested in govn't at all..there have been waves of retirements going on..


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