# Adventure of a landlord finding a new tenant



## canabiz

So our GREAT current tenant informed us last week they purchased a property and would be moving out in a couple of months. We hired an agent last year to find a tenant, being new to the game, but I am determined to do it ourselves this year. How else can I learn right? 

I am going to document our experience here, with the intention of sharing and learning as much as we can. I will state everything matter-of-factly and reserve my judgment where it counts  We have posted our ads on a number of local boards and forums so here goes 

*Day 0:* Before we posted our ad, our current tenant let us know they have a couple of friends who may be interested in seeing the property. I set up an appointment for them to see the place. It turns out they have 2 (small) dogs and we prefer not to have pets in our rental.

*Day 1: * We posted our ad yesterday and there was a fair number of inquiries. I set up a showing for tonight. The couple arrived well before the scheduled appointment and proceeded to tour the house with the assistance of the tenant. I arrived 10 minutes before the appointment just as they came out of the house. We chatted for a bit and the husband suggested he could finish our basement in exchange for a discount on the rent. I discussed with my wife and we agreed now is not the time to do so and I sent them a rental application to fill out, should they are still interested.

*Day 2:* I have another showing tomorrow night and will update the thread...


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## 319905

Anecdotal ... always, always, always, no matter who, do the due diligence e.g. references etc.. Buddy up the street rented to a friends adult son who turned out to be the tenant from hell ... smoking, drinking, loud music, refused to leave, ... I'm looking forward to following your thread, thanks for posting. We have an excellent tenant at present, we'll be taking on at least one more, maybe 2, come January when my wife retires.


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## bpcrally

Dont lets pets turn you off, especially if otherwise its a good tenant.

We have a dog and it was hell finding a place, even though landlords technically can't say no pets.

We were able to find a place using our old landlord as a reference that we take care of the property, clean up, and would be accountable for any damages caused by the dog. Our dog is really well trained, never has accidents, isnt destructive etc etc and we like to think we're the perfect tenants on top of that. 

All im saying is don't lose the right tenant over an animal. if youre really that concerned make some sort of an agreement that if there are any damages, they'll be on the hook for them.


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## BL33

I would let pets stay in a rental if I owed one. Piece of mind of having a good tenant willing to stay is all it would take for me.


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## noobs

I believe you can run them in the system (your rental board) to see if tenants had previous problems with landlords, that should give you a good indicator. Also see if you can talk to the people a bit to get a feel for them.


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## canabiz

*Day 2 update*: The couple who made the appointment tonight arrived on time. They expressed interest in the place so I gave them an application form. They want to take possession of the place right around the time the current tenant is supposed to leave so the timing certainly looks good.

The couple in *Day 1* thanked me for my time after I sent them the application last night. I take this as a hint that they are no longer interested.

Another interested party was supposed to come tonight but cancelled and we will reschedule. Another individual wanted to know if we can lower the price because of her financial situation. I told her we are not in a position to do so, at this point, but will keep her informed if we do.

My position on pets is I will only accommodate them as a last resort. 

I have another showing tomorrow and will update the thread again...


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## atrp2biz

Are you willing to share what part of town the property is in? I'd imagine the tenant experience in Vanier would be vastly different than that of Sandy Hill even though they are only on the other side of the river from each other.


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## canabiz

You are absolutely correct, Vanier and Sandy Hill tenants are different, let's put it that way.

Our property is in Barrhaven, which is a suburb in the South-West part of Ottawa (30 minutes to downtown by car).

I just got an inquiry from a group of 3 female university students who want to know if we are willing to rent to students. I will need to do further research on student rentals before letting them know.


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## Newby1983

I think you'll find some good stuff posted by Berubeland here: http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/the-art-of-tenant-selection.htm 

I like her idea of having prospective tenants call 1 hour before the appointment to confirm. I remember many people were no shows.


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## canabiz

*Day 3 update: * The person booked for showing tonight would like re-schedule. 

I let the students know I am open to renting to students provided a number of conditions are met (credit check or parents guarantor, among other things). The date doesn't seem to work for them so I have not heard anything back.

Yes I have been reading many articles on Berubeland's website, excellent resources for landlords!

I have 2 showings on Saturday (if they don't cancel/re-schedule  and will provide update then...I will re-tool my ad with some minor changes and bump it to the top on Monday as it is buried 30 pages deep on Kijiji.


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## Davis

I figure I averaged a 50% no-show rate, so I started setting showing hours that were convenient for me, and did not make "special arrangements" to show it to people.


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## Just a Guy

I used the call to confirm 1 hr before for years to cut down on no shows. I also booked them all around the same time. However, I also always waited until the tenants had moved out.


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## canabiz

*Day 4 update: * I don't have any showing today but I did answer a couple of emails and booked 1 more showing for tomorrow which will make 3 showings in 1 afternoon, pending no cancellation/reschedule

An interested party wanted to know if we are willing to drop the price. They say they don't smoke, don't have any pets and are very quiet. Sound like ideal tenants, on paper. I forwarded an application and offered to show the property at their convenience and I have not yet to hear anything back.

A realtor wanted to know if we are open to renting to his clients who are employed and are good tenants (in his word) but who have 2 dogs. I reiterated our position on pets and told him I will let him know if we change our mind. 

I am contemplating putting my cell phone number in the ad when I bump it to the top on Monday. So far I have not done so and I have been getting a steady number of email inquiries from Kijiji. I work weekdays and I prefer not picking up phone calls from prospective tenants (I suppose they can always leave voice mails). Receiving emails rather than answering phone calls also give me a bit of time to check my schedule and co-ordinate the showing time with the current tenant first.


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## tygrus

...precisely why I buy REITs


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## canabiz

*Day 5 update*: I only did 2 showings today. #3 would like to reschedule.

The first group liked the home and the available date works out well for them. One of them would like to run a daycare and told me she is willing to contribute to the additional liability insurance for the home. She also has a cat. I told her I needed to do further research about the daycare because I have not come across that scenario before. I still gave them an application to fill out.

The second group was 30 minutes late. The husband called me and said he was close to our place but could not find the exact location. There was a language barrier so I offered to go to where they were and brought them over. They also liked the place and the available date also works out for them. They told me they will let me know in a couple of days. 

I do not have any showing scheduled for tomorrow (I also want to give the current tenants a break) or next week unless the people who cancelled this week re-schedule. I will fine tune the ad with some additional details and bump it to the top and anticipate a fresh round of showings next week. 

I will hang tight with the price for now as this is our 1st week.


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## canabiz

*Day 6 update: * I deleted my Kijiji ad this morning and created a new one with additional details to bump it to the top page.

I have a showing scheduled for tomorrow and another one on Saturday. I let 3 interested parties know we are not ready to take on the pets at this point but we will let them know if we change our mind. 

One of them even offered me to tour her current place to see how clean and damage-free the property is with a dog. Another one said she only has really small dogs (~ 5lbs) and that is something for us to think about.

I will call the insurance company tomorrow just to inquire about additional liability insurance if we were to have a daycare operating out of our property. It is unlikely we will go through with this, for a number of reasons, but it will be good for me to know.


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## Causalien

canabiz said:


> *Day 6 update: * I deleted my Kijiji ad this morning and created a new one with additional details to bump it to the top page.
> 
> I have a showing scheduled for tomorrow and another one on Saturday. I let 3 interested parties know we are not ready to take on the pets at this point but we will let them know if we change our mind.
> 
> One of them even offered me to tour her current place to see how clean and damage-free the property is with a dog. Another one said she only has really small dogs (~ 5lbs) and that is something for us to think about.
> 
> I will call the insurance company tomorrow just to inquire about additional liability insurance if we were to have a daycare operating out of our property. It is unlikely we will go through with this, for a number of reasons, but it will be good for me to know.


You need to watch out for female student's boyfriends.

also consider international students. They usually don't cause problems and have rich parents.


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## Just a Guy

Beware stereotypes, bad people come in all backgrounds, as do good. 

Proper screening is the key, something which you seem to be ignoring while concentrating on gathering a collection of "prospects". Not sure exactly what you are looking for, you seem quite focused on getting people to apply and little to no effort on picking anyone.

Keep things simple, set your policies, screen the prospects, make a choice (even if that choice is to keep looking because no one passes the screening). No pets means no pets period. Candidates are passed on. Don't want the complications of a daycare, done, next. Research it later if you want, quit getting distracted now. Move on.

Got a couple of people who fit? Start looking into them. Check credit, references, etc. Look for any little discrepancies (if they lied early, they'll probably continue to get worse). Start treating this like a business and not some weird social collection. This is starting to sound more like voyarism then trying to find a steady source of stable income.

Get focused.


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## canabiz

I normally only post daily update to stay on points and avoid cluttering the thread but JAG brought up some important points and I would like to address them before things go off on a tangent.

First, I do sincerely thank you for your constructive feedback, JAG. This is my first time looking for tenants (on my own) for our property and I do not do this for a living so I do apologize if there is something I wrote that might have struck a chord, if you will.

I am probably looking for the same thing as you (and other investors, I might add) are: quality tenants who will pay rent on time. I have been getting a steady number of inquiries (I just replied to 3 new emails this morning) and a corresponding number of showings so I believe our property and price have generated interest but I still have not come across quality prospective tenants, hence I continue to collect *prospects*.

As mentioned in my first post, I tried to state everything matter-of-factly, without revealing any personal information, in the hope of sharing and learning from others. In no way, shape or form do I treat this as voyeurism or weird social collection and once again I do apologize if my posts came across this way. I am fully cognizant of the fact that interest rate is at a historic low and we (investors) are doing our best to attract quality tenants who would otherwise consider paying more or less the same amount and get to own their own home. 

Thank you again for your feedback, I don't take offense to any of that whatsoever because I am here to learn and sharpen my skills as a landlord 

Sincerely,


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## Just a Guy

It wasn't really meant to be so harsh, sorry if I get a little grumpy. Too many landlords tend to get sidetracked is all. Your goal is to get the place rented, keep focused, eliminate the ones who don't fit quickly, and focus on the ones who fit the criteria.

Meeting the tenants is always key, but don't get sucked up in their storey, you're looking for signs they aren't telling the truth, or get them to reveal something which makes them fit or not fit the criteria. You need to be black and white, forget trying to accommodate everyone, you're in a landlord's market currently. Time is money as it were.

As I said, you don't seem to be talking about what you're doing to screen people, and it sounds like you take days to make decisions which should take seconds. 

Again, just trying to be helpful in a grumpy way...


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## nredding

You say you want "quality tenants who will pay rent on time" so I don't understand your obsession with excluding prospective tenants with pets. Pets are not the problem. Bad tenants with pets are a problem but good tenants with pets are fine. But bad tenants are a problem, anyway.

I own a rental property in Ottawa and my current tenants and 3 previous tenants all have/had pets. And all of them are/were quality tenants who paid the rent on time!

Are you aware that no pets clauses in tenancy contracts are not enforceable in Ontario (unless the unit is in a condo that doesn't allow pets)? So all you are doing is screening out good tenants with pets, who wouldn't lie and say they don't have pets.

It seems to me that if you allowed pets, you could have rented your property several times over by now.


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## Newby1983

I would not exclude tenants outright but rather assess the tenant and their pet. My tenant had no pets when they moved in (great!). 3 months in they got a "small" dog. It grew waist-high in 6 months, jumped on everything and everyone, pee'd over basement carpet, gnawed at some baseboards. In hindsight, I'd probably be better off accepting dogs from the start as they've probably been with the family for some time, trained, neutered, etc. It would have given me an opportunity to see how the dog was before accepting them


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## Prospector

Is it possible to chare a pet rent - to cover damages or remediate the pet risk. You know rent is set at $X,000 - plus $50 per month for pets? Any reason you can't take this approach?


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## tygrus

2 tips.

Sell, buy REITS

Barring that, rent to the pet owner. Pets require responsibility, that shows something about the tenant. I would rather clean dog pee than deal with anything a human can do to a place, like the place my buddy rented and they decided to do indoor target shooting with a cross bow.


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## Saniokca

tygrus said:


> ...
> Barring that, rent to the pet owner. Pets require responsibility, that shows something about the tenant. I would rather clean dog pee than deal with anything a human can do to a place, like the place my buddy rented and they decided to do indoor target shooting with a cross bow.


From a "purely objective" viewpoint I completely agree... We have a pet but also a 200k+ income and great credit scores (i.e. it should be easier to sue us for damages). This pet obsession is overblown. It also seems like every second property has that clause - which, like nredding said, isn't enforceable most of the time. I read somewhere that you can't even have it in the agreement but I could be wrong on that one. Some in my situation would not apply because of the "no pets" clause while others would lie because they know the rules. Not exactly a "win-win".

"One of them even offered me to tour her current place to see how clean and damage-free the property is with a dog." - I think that would be enough proof for me...

Good luck


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## Spudd

Yeah, in Ontario, even if you sign a lease that has a no-pets clause it's entirely un-enforceable. So you might just be screening for tenants that lie.


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## Berubeland

I highly recommend that landlords look at the application and not the pets. 50% of tenants have pets. If you write no pets in your ad the only thing you do is screen out the respectful responsible pet owners, lose 50% of the market and you may well end up with a pet anyways. 

How people are in one area of their life is how they are in most areas of their life. If they are responsible, have good credit and good income chances are they will make decent tenants. It is then your job to set the expectation of how you expect the apartment to be kept, and what condition you want it left in and then enforce it using the N-5 if there are damages. Then the tenants are at least enforceable.


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## canabiz

*Day 7 update: * Thank you all for the feedback, I will take sometime to digest what you have written. 

I had 1 showing today. The lady and her daughter arrived on time. They will be moving out of the current rental because the landlord is going to sell the place and the date works well for both of us. She likes the place and would like to bring her husband back for another showing. I gave her an application. 

I have 2 showings scheduled for tomorrow and 1 more for this Saturday, so far for this week. I also sent an application to an interested party who is currently out of province but will be moving to Ottawa shortly. 

I took JAG advice and have been screening prospective tenants more aggressively. I only booked showing if they meet our conditions, this will also ease some pressure off the current tenants who have been unbelivevably accommodating.


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## bpcrally

Spudd said:


> Yeah, in Ontario, even if you sign a lease that has a no-pets clause it's entirely un-enforceable. So you might just be screening for tenants that lie.


Yup, and its this silliness that almost led my wife and I to start lying to landlords. We were always upfront that we had a dog, and had references that we were great tenants and very responsible, but so many people put on their blinders and close out pet owners that it was tempting just to hide the fact that we had a dog. Legally, if we moved into a place and showed up with the dog, the landlord can't do squat.

Luckily we found someone reasonable, even though we were the first in his newly renovated apartment. We've been there 3 years now with zero damage or complaints about our dog. I'm sure a landlord would rather have someone like us with a dog, than someone who trashes the place or is disrespectful without.

You can say no pets all you want, but once you rent the place out your tenant can get one if they want. As mentioned above, id rather take a pet owner with references and keep your options open for the right tenant.


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## ykphil

bpcrally said:


> id rather take a pet owner with references and keep your options open for the right tenant.


The last time I put our no-pet/no-smoking Calgary condo on Kijiji in 2013, I had 20 replies less than 10 minutes after posting the ad, and a dozen people lining up to fill an application form with a security deposit a day later. Fast-forward two weeks ago, I put an ad for the same apartment but $100 cheaper than in 2013, and I have not received one single inquiry yet...If nothing moves by the end of the month, I'd be willing to rent it to a chain-smoking goat herder with good references.


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## Earl

I think you're doing the right thing by looking for a tenant without a dog. Dogs stink, and their smell is very difficult to remove. You will have a harder time renting the place out to the next tenant due to the dog smell. Other posters here are right that no pets is unenforceable legally so if the tenants lie and bring in a dog you can't evict them, but you can certainly try to screen them out. I don't see any reason to disqualify a tenant with a cat though, they don't stink. They do shed but hair is easily removed with a good vacuuming/sweeping, unlike stench.

Also your current tenant must be very frustrated with these constant showings. I hope for their sake you pick someone soon, it's not pleasant having strangers come snoop around your home every day.


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## tygrus

Earl said:


> Dogs stink, and their smell is very difficult to remove.


Obviously you havent met very many people.


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## canabiz

*Day 8 update*; I had 2 showings tonight, both parties arrived on time.

The first group is a family who has recently given notice to their current landlord. They are looking for more space and both husband and wife seem to like our place. The husband filled out the application on the spot but forgot a number of items so he will give them to me later (and I will follow up) before I can run a credit check. There exists the possibility of a slightly lower rent for longer term and I will entertain that scenario.

The second group consists of a number of young adults moving out for the first time. They live around the area so they pretty much know what they want to get. They also seem to be quite interested in the place so I handed them an application. There may be a requirement for parents guarantor but we will cross that bridge when I get the application.

I am still getting daily inquiries but I have done a much better job pre-screening *prospects* before booking a showing. The lady who came yesterday is supposed to come back tomorrow with her husband for a follow-up but I have not been able to confirm and if she doesn't let me know then it's off the table. I only have 1 more showing booked for Saturday for the rest of this week.

and you are absolutely right Earl, I have had no issue bringing prospective tenants in the door but it is time to hunker down and get a deal done, for my sake and the current tenants' sake. With that said, I will continue to do my due diligence to cover my bases.

Maybe I will make my next property pet-friendly now that I know there is a healthy demand for that market


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## Just a Guy

One of the screening methods I used was never to call people back for more information. It's their job to get it to me, like the rent. If they can't get me the information, I wouldn't be the one following up with them.

The only time I want to follow up with someone is if I said I'd get back to them with information. So, if the lady who wants to look tomorrow doesn't call to confirm with proper notice, she's off the list. If the husband who "forgot a number of items" doesn't call me with the information promptly, he's off the list.


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## RCB

For Ontario pet owners that rent, instead of complaining that Ontario landlords don't want pets, you should consider WHY they don't want pets. It's because the damage they may cause can be virtually impossible to receive payment for. If you want pets widely accepted, get on the provincial government to allow pet deposits, which are currently illegal.

As a pet owner and an Ontario landlord, I've had a dog, cats, guinea pigs and aquariums in my home. In 50 years, I have never not had a pet. I have, however, had an elderly cat that started vomiting and defecating everywhere without warning. I have had a dog's claws scratch the finish on the hardwood floors and stairs, just through getting up to walk. This to the point where there is no finish left on my bedroom floor where he slept for a period of one year. I have had cats claw at the carpet, causing pulls. Male (but not female) guinea pigs have a very strong scent, that took a very long time to leave my house after he passed, and I had no carpet. One of my aquariums leaked, causing damage to my hardwood floor.

None of these issues arose from bad pets, nor from bad owners. They were either normal *pet* wear and tear, aging, illness, etc. As a homeowner, c'est la vie, no one else is financially responsible to repair these issues but the pet owner...me. 

As a landlord, you must have your property in great shape, or people scowl and think you don't properly maintain your property. Stained carpets, urine smells you can't get rid of in carpet, underpad, between hardwood strips. Cat-clawed door trim, lost finish on floors. Much of this is only discovered after tenants have removed all possessions and vacated. Then you have to track them down, fight for money, and take them to Small Claims court if you can even track them down.

If you want to have pets in rentals, I firmly believe the government must allow pet or damage deposits. And trust me, I love pets.


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## canabiz

*Day 9 update: * I don't have any showing today, actually I don't have any showing for the next 2 days because I wanted to give the current tenants a break (We will bring them out for dinner when the dust settles 

I did book another showing for Saturday to make it 2 and replied to a number of inquiries.

A couple of folks wanted to know if they could move in before the posted date but unfortunately that doesn't work. A guy working for a property management company reached out to me today and wanted to know if I want to work with agents. It will be 1 month rental fee for them to find a qualified tenant but he did not answer me when I asked him what they do to qualify tenant!

I think you are right again, JAG. I have to learn to let it go and not hold on to something that is not concrete. Show me the money, if you will. It's all part of the learning process. 

I have been pretty silent about the pets subject but RCB pretty much took words out of my mouth. I don't hate pets or pet owners but I prefer not to have them in my property for the reasons RCB mentioned.


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## canabiz

*Day 12 update:* All 3 groups showed up on time today.

The first group is a couple with 1 kid so family of 3. The couple seems to like the place, to the point of trying to visualize where they will put the furniture and what have you. The husband works for a landscaping company and would like to put a small trailer in my backyard. I told him I do not want it there plus there will be logistical challenges (fence) but he wanted to fill out an application nonetheless.

The second group is also a couple with 1 kid so another family of 3. They also seem to like the place, more so the wife than the husband  Her family lives around the area so I suppose that helps. I handed them an application as well. 

The last group is a brother and sister. Their mom could not make it tonight but she would be resident #3. Once again, I gave them an application. 

*The husband from Day 8* gave me additional information to run a credit check. They are open to staying for a minimum of 3 years, the only issue is they can only move in 1 month after our posted date, which is not ideal but also not the end of the world. 

I plan to be really aggressive in the next few weeks because I read somewhere that the best time to list rental property is between 4-6 weeks out from the vacancy. We were probably a little bit ahead of the curve, listing our place 8 weeks out, but it's a good lesson learned. I will only book showing if the prospective tenants pass my pre-clearance. The current tenants are very understanding and they appreciate my efforts.


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## Just a Guy

Okay, quick question, how many applicants do you need? Have all the people who've applied failed to meet your needs in some way? You only need one person who meets your requirements, and passes your screening. What will you do if you have three good prospects, or four? You only have one place to rent. Find a qualified renter, Sign the paperwork, get the deposits and move on.

It's not only a waste of your time, you're giving prospective tenants false hope. This is unfair to everyone. I admit I'm more experienced than you, but I've found renters, screened them and signed leases for two of my places in the first week of April, less time than you've taken to post this thread and you seem no closer to closing the deal. 

What are you waiting for? If no one fits, I can understand, but you seem to have several candidates from what you've posted. This is starting to sound like analysis paralysis.


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## canabiz

JAG, I have handed out several applications but I have only received one completed so far (the family from Day 8). I have not had a chance to run a credit check for this applicant (will do so early next week as I have been tied up with some other stuff) but there are a number of things that give me pause

- Their combined (husband and wife) income is right on the edge of the threshold, using the 40-times rule

- The husband, the primary income earner, has only been at his current job for 4 months. He worked overseas prior to that

- They can only move in our place 1 month after our desired date

- They have 2 kids with a 3rd on the way = more expenses

I wish I had a number of qualified applicants to choose from. People like the place, they accepted the applications willingly but you know what they say talk is cheap. I even signed up for a fax number (tested and working) to make it easier for applicants to return the applications to me. 

Maybe they freak out when they see on the application that their signature indicates consent for a credit check and first + last month deposit or maybe they find other places, whatever the case maybe, I can only control what I can control, JAG.

I could have easily rented our place to tenants with pets but you know what I am going to stick to my guns and see through this.


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## tygrus

Every time I read this thread I open up my online investing account and give my REITs a kiss.


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## Just a Guy

Okay, sorry to be grumpy. It's probably more your writing style or my interpretation of it.


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## canabiz

No worry JAG, I appreciate any and all input.

This is our 2nd week of listing, for the record, it took our agent 6 weeks last year to find a tenant for us, although the circumstances were a little bit different then. 

I can freely admit I was not as focused in my 1st week as I should have been and thanks to your constructive feedback, I have since tightened up the pre-screening process to weed out the tire kickers. The prospective tenants who came for showing this week have definitely been more serious and are of a higher caliber, if you will. 

I don't have any more showing scheduled as of this point but will bump the ad up on Monday and anticipate a fresh round of inquiry. I will certainly process any application that I receive but I am not going to sit around and wait for them to come in, I have to be proactive and look for new leads. People can say whatever they want to say but it doesn't mean anything to me until the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed. This is supposed to be the sweet spot (4-6 weeks out from vacancy of June 1st) so we will see. 

Thanks again. Hope to share the good news soon...


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## treva84

As someone who is considering getting a rental property in the future, I find this thread very interesting. Canabiz, thanks for starting it and being so upfront and frank. Also thanks for continuing it, despite some of the (constructive) criticism you are receiving - often on a forum it's easy to just go underground rather than face what people are saying. 

Not that this really applies to you, but after reading this thread and the amount of work you are doing to find tenants I agree with Tygrus - for me I think REITS are the way to go for now. If only I could get a bank to lend me money with 5% down to buy a few REITS!


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## nredding

I think you will find that the number of responses to your ad will drop off. You've been advertising it for 2 weeks now and most people who see it next week will have already seen it.


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## canabiz

treva84 said:


> As someone who is considering getting a rental property in the future, I find this thread very interesting. Canabiz, thanks for starting it and being so upfront and frank. Also thanks for continuing it, despite some of the (constructive) criticism you are receiving - often on a forum it's easy to just go underground rather than face what people are saying.
> 
> Not that this really applies to you, but after reading this thread and the amount of work you are doing to find tenants I agree with Tygrus - for me I think REITS are the way to go for now. If only I could get a bank to lend me money with 5% down to buy a few REITS!


No worry, I am very glad you and a number of other folks have found this thread useful. I am equally glad and appreciative of all the feedback I have received so far, constructive or otherwise. I stated right in my first post that I am completely new to this process but everyone has to start somewhere and you know what, I am a more knowledgeable and informative landlord now than I was 2 weeks ago 

I'm more determined than ever to see this through and will continue to provide update when I can. I still have a couple of tools in the box that I have not considered (lowering the rent, going with a property management company etc) so there are avenues to get the job done. 



nredding said:


> I think you will find that the number of responses to your ad will drop off. You've been advertising it for 2 weeks now and most people who see it next week will have already seen it.


I think you maybe right but I can't rule anything out at this point. This (Ottawa) is a city of 1 million plus folks (including the Gatineau side) with a variety of sectors (3 levels of government, hi-tech, hospitality etc). People need a place to live and different people have different reasons to rent, we just have to find 1 to connect with. 

This is anecdotal but I have had inquiries from as far as Calgary (moving to Ottawa later this summer) and from local individual who needs temporary housing (doesn't work for us as we would like minimum 1-year lease to start) while he's going through a divorce and building his new dig...

Whatever their reasons to rent may be, I always treat them with the same respect and professionalism. The feedback about our place has been very positive so far but I understand many people are not planners nor they want to make the commitment, again for whatever reasons, and we have to move on to the next candidate.


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## RCB

treva84, and anyone else thinking about becoming a landlord, prior research is key. I firmly believe one must not only research the financials, but also the applicable law, and day to day details involved in acting as a landlord. I spent almost a year doing so. I found reading cases brought before the LTB to be invaluable in providing information to try and avoid pitfalls. Quite illuminating. Also quite helpful when one tenant brought me before them. I won because I understood the intricacies of the RTA in advance, and followed the RTA to a T.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/


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## RCB

canabiz, I'm not sure if you are aware, but there is a company called Tenant Verification Services that small landlords can use to do an online credit check through if you are interested. Results take just a minute or two. You must register with them first, providing documentation proving ownership of the property, your ID, etc. I've been using them for years.


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## Karlhungus

Just a Guy said:


> Okay, quick question, how many applicants do you need? Have all the people who've applied failed to meet your needs in some way? You only need one person who meets your requirements, and passes your screening. What will you do if you have three good prospects, or four? You only have one place to rent. Find a qualified renter, Sign the paperwork, get the deposits and move on.
> 
> It's not only a waste of your time, you're giving prospective tenants false hope. This is unfair to everyone. I admit I'm more experienced than you, but I've found renters, screened them and signed leases for two of my places in the first week of April, less time than you've taken to post this thread and you seem no closer to closing the deal.
> 
> What are you waiting for? If no one fits, I can understand, but you seem to have several candidates from what you've posted. This is starting to sound like analysis paralysis.


I disagree with this. If it takes you 50 applicants to find a good tenant, you do it. Theres nothing worse then rushing a tenant and then they destroy the place. Much better to have the place vacant for a couple extra weeks then to have someone not pay rent and destroy the place to the tune of $5000.


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## Just a Guy

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I have no problem going through as many applications as needed to find a good tenant. The tenant needs to meet all criteria that the landlord has (be that no pets, single, whatever). 

However, what got me frustrated was the lack of focus canabiz was showing on this thread. He was originally showing the place to anyone and everyone (which wasted his time as well as was inconvenient to his current tenants). I admitted I was a little grumpy when I pointed this out, but canabiz also corrected that going forward. 

It sounded to me, from his postings, that he already had several good candidate lined up (I was wrong) but seemed to be looking for more (again this is a waste of time and inconvenient to his current tenants as well as the people looking). 

I never told him to just take the first person, I told him to focus on proper screening. My frustration came from the apparent lack of focus on this aspect of getting a new tenant, which can be a rookie mistake. 

Many people reading this thread are commenting on how REITs are much more attractive because of all the work involved. Many of the original showings, as canabiz admitted, should never have been done at all. As he learns to be a landlord, he'll develop a system for getting tenants and the workload will become more efficient. The problem is, there is no handbook out there, so many landlords have to discover what to do by trial and error, so they make mistakes in the beginning.

As I said yesterday, I filled two places in less than a week of starting advertising. I didn't just grab the first breathing person through the door, I went through a rigorous screening process, the difference is I'm experienced at this process and don't get distracted with the obvious people who won't work. In the pre screening phone call, we find out if they won't work off the bat (for example, in canabiz' case, do they have pets, are they going to run a daycare, etc.). Next, they have to call me before the meeting to confirm. I have a detailed application form, any red flags after they fill it out, one moves on. I've found that if they don't ask for an application, then they really aren't interested. Most tenants want to fill out the application right away, because of the level of details on mine, some take it home, but I never call them to get it back. If they don't send it to me, they aren't interested. 

Canabiz I'd doing a good and proper job, but as a rookie, is still learning and developing a system. At the same time, people are reading this thread and thinking this is what you have to deal with every time you need a tenant...technically that's true, but it does become easier and more automatic. 

That being said, being a landlord is work, no doubt about it. Done correctly however, it's a lot more profitable than REITs.


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## treva84

Just a Guy said:


> That being said, being a landlord is work, no doubt about it. Done correctly however, it's a lot more profitable than REITs.


JAG this has probably been asked before but do you have a full time job in addition to running your investment properties? Or, is being a landlord your full time job?

Not to derail the thread, but I already have a full time job as a busy professional. Although I have absolutely zero experience, I don't think I'd be be able to do a good job with a rental property unless I was to scale my full time job back (although it may only require as little as 4-8 work hours / week). Hence, for me at this time, REITS are easiest as they are truly passive. 

Nonetheless, I think as I get old and a bit more financially established I'll probably pursue becoming a landlord (I think I'd be more keen on commercial than residential but that's a discussion for another day).


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## Just a Guy

Being a landlord isn't really a "full time" job. There are certain time when there is more work (beginning/end of the month for example). There was more work in the beginning, when I was more directly involved but, as I got bigger and the cash flow got larger, I started hiring other people to do the work for me. 

I don't think it would take 4-8 hours a week if you get good tenants. When you're starting with one place, if you get good tenants, you rarely do anything. As for the myth of "I need to fix toilets in the middle of the night", I've never seen it in all my years (my tenants, like me, sleep at night). If there was ever a plumbing issue, I called a plumber with the understanding that, if the report he writes says it's the tenat's fault (ie they clogged it) then they'd be paying for it, if it wasn't the tenat's fault (let's say tree roots clogged the line) I'd pay for it (I'd need to do the repair regardless in that case). Either way, it works out to a couple of five minute phone calls.

Even at the beginning though, it was more of a hobby for me as I had my companies to run. Today, I spend most of my time looking for prospective properties, the part I like the most is the finding. 

To get started, it probably helps to be younger, real estate takes a long time to pay off. Also, when you start, you need to probably do most of the work yourself (renos, screening, taking calls, etc.). Not something I'd want to start in retirement.


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## RCB

I rent to students, over two houses, soon to be three. With each of the first two houses rented on one lease each, my time spent this year equals less than 30 minutes a month total, including all bookkeeping. I've had a "problem" call at each house. One was a loosening outdoor railing, fixed in 10 minutes. The other was a dishwasher not filling with water...float was stuck, fix was 5 minutes door to door, and instructions to run a cleaning cycle on it. In the last 30 days, I've spent maybe 5 hours total in placing and responding to ads, showings, processing applications, and lease-signing.

In past years we rented to students by the room. We stopped doing so as it was quite labour intensive due to the number of rooms. Students seeking rooms tend to look shortly before the beginning of the school year, so the summer was lost for me.


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## Just a Guy

Should probably also mention that it takes a lot of work these days to find a real estate investment which makes sense financially. Many on this board seem to think I just make up the properties I find and talk about (not that any of the critics actually look from what I've seen). 

I spent years developing relationships with banks, realtors, contractors, managers, etc. All over the place. It would be nearly impossible to do what I do if you only looked in west Vancouver or the core of Toronto.


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## treva84

Just a Guy said:


> Being a landlord isn't really a "full time" job. There are certain time when there is more work (beginning/end of the month for example). There was more work in the beginning, when I was more directly involved but, as I got bigger and the cash flow got larger, I started hiring other people to do the work for me.
> 
> I don't think it would take 4-8 hours a week if you get good tenants. When you're starting with one place, if you get good tenants, you rarely do anything. As for the myth of "I need to fix toilets in the middle of the night", I've never seen it in all my years (my tenants, like me, sleep at night). If there was ever a plumbing issue, I called a plumber with the understanding that, if the report he writes says it's the tenat's fault (ie they clogged it) then they'd be paying for it, if it wasn't the tenat's fault (let's say tree roots clogged the line) I'd pay for it (I'd need to do the repair regardless in that case). Either way, it works out to a couple of five minute phone calls.
> 
> Even at the beginning though, it was more of a hobby for me as I had my companies to run. Today, I spend most of my time looking for prospective properties, the part I like the most is the finding.
> 
> To get started, it probably helps to be younger, real estate takes a long time to pay off. Also, when you start, you need to probably do most of the work yourself (renos, screening, taking calls, etc.). Not something I'd want to start in retirement.


Yeah I think finding the right property would be the hardest part, especially as I don't know what I am doing and I have never done it before. What cap rate do you go for? 7-9%?

I've been buying equities for a few years now and only in the last year or so have I really figured out valuation. With RE you get 1 crack at the can; if you screw up the valuation you are screwed!


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## canabiz

RCB said:


> canabiz, I'm not sure if you are aware, but there is a company called Tenant Verification Services that small landlords can use to do an online credit check through if you are interested. Results take just a minute or two. You must register with them first, providing documentation proving ownership of the property, your ID, etc. I've been using them for years.


Yes I am aware of this and have signed up and waiting for them to verify the document.

Thanks for the support, guys and gals. It's a learning process for me and I think I am getting better  I pre-screened a couple of folks who wanted to view the place and they never got back to me so on to the next one. Another lady just called and she got through the pre-screening so we booked a showing for Tuesday night. She actually asked me if I want her to call me 1 hour before the appointment to confirm, always like to hear that 

Week 3 here we come!


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## Just a Guy

Treva84,

I don't look for a cap rate that low in this market. I generally look for places well under market value, renovate them, and then aim to rent them at at least 1% of the appraised value. 

So, for example, I recently bought a 3 bedroom condo (it sold in 2007 for $250k to a Toronto lawyer/"investor" going through a divorce). I paid 95k, it appraised at $140k after renovations and I got a renter in there paying $1400/month. I'm a little ticked at the appraiser, since a similar 1 bedroom recently sold in the same place for $145k, but I got all my cash back out with a 80% LTV mortgage. 

My guys are currently working on a Two bedroom place which I picked up in foreclosure for 70k (sold three years ago for $160k). I may have a tenant lined up already (a former tenant of mine who knows what my places are like) for $1250/month. Should have the bank appraisal at the end of the month for it, I expect it to be around 130k, but you never know some appraisers are very conservative.


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## Plugging Along

I also agree, once you have the system the hardest finding a rental investment where the numbers make sense. I have been looking for a whole, but am overly cautious,


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## canabiz

*Day 15 update*: I was supposed to have 2 showings today but 1 cancelled (she did call ahead of time). The other party arrived on time and expressed interest (just as many others did, although nothing has materialized so far yet) so I gave him an application. 

I followed up with a couple of promising candidates from last week showing, just to see if they have any question about our place or the application itself.

A friend commented that the pictures I took are a bit dark and don't exactly do the home justice. I booked an appointment with a photographer who did some work for us in the past and should have better pictures early next week.

I have only booked 1 more showing for rest of the week: A gentleman recently accepted a job offer in Ottawa and will move up here from Montreal. He passed my pre-screening and would like to see the place on Saturday. He is supposed to see a bunch of homes so I will have to put my best foot forward. 

Question for JAG (or anyone else): You said that you only show the properties when they are vacant e.g. when the tenants have left. Does this mean you may have to eat up to a month (or possibly longer) of vacancy until the places are filled again?

The reason I want to do the showings now is because I want the new tenant to move in right after the current tenants leave so there is no gap. I understand that is the best case scenario and it comes at the expense of the current tenants, in terms of inconvenience, but I have been really trying to limit the showings as I am sure you can tell by the progress of this thread


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## Berubeland

I show properties when they are full all the time... and I rent them like that all the time...and my landlords don't generally understand that's I'm doing a good job for them. I have quite a few landlords that have seen days of vacancy over years. I have one landlord for instance that has had 3 days of vacancy over 5 years and another that hasn't had any. I have another landlord with 6-7 condos and he's had like 3 month total over all the condos for 6 years. 

Honestly from our perspective it's stressful because you have to organize everything so seamlessly. Lots of moving parts are involved and we are not responsible for all of them. Having said that...most of our owners make money on appreciation and not cash flow so keeping things moving along is helpful.


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## treva84

Berubeland said:


> I show properties when they are full all the time... and I rent them like that all the time...and my landlords don't generally understand that's I'm doing a good job for them. I have quite a few landlords that have seen days of vacancy over years. I have one landlord for instance that has had 3 days of vacancy over 5 years and another that hasn't had any. I have another landlord with 6-7 condos and he's had like 3 month total over all the condos for 6 years.
> 
> Honestly from our perspective it's stressful because you have to organize everything so seamlessly. Lots of moving parts are involved and we are not responsible for all of them. Having said that...most of our owners make money on appreciation and not cash flow so keeping things moving along is helpful.


So how do you handle the pig tenant (i.e. one that's so messy they under-sell the place with their crap?) I remember back when I was a renter I saw a few apartments and just the mess from the tenant turned me off to the place, when in reality under all of that mess if may have been a very nice apartment. Thinking about it, I would want to select for a tenant that would be turned off by a mess (like I was) as they are probably the most likely to care for the place. 

Is there a clause your lease agreement that stipulates the apartment must be up to "showing condition" or something like that? Or, is cleanliness more a reflection on the type of tenant you select for? Or, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter?


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## Just a Guy

I'm in the unusual situation where my properties actually make me money on a monthly basis. When you have a lot, the others can easily cover the "loss". When you have only one place, it's different. When I started, I tried to minimize the vacancy process. It was a nightmare, especially when the people moving out ran into problems and weren't out.

I personally, don't like to disrupt the tenants, and like to have my guys go in and fix up the little (or big in some cases) things to keep my places nice. This is my personal choice as I prefer to have less stress than more income

I tend to have very little turnover on my places, my tenants like me as a landlord, so I often have people calling me looking for places based on my reputation (it's surprising how word gets around). I can actually pre screen people for places I know are upcoming. The two bedroom I got this month and am renovating is already rented for next month by a fully screened tenant who was waiting. Rent will be $1250 on a place I bought for 70k and probably spent less than my usual 5k in materials to renovate. 

Even still, many people are willing to go mid-month on a new place, giving themselves two weeks to move.

I find people who try to maximize every possible dollar out of their places don't usually have a good relationship with their tenants. While my places certainly aren't the ritz, they are far from slums, with quality products installed (thick laminate, tile flooring, nice cupboards, modern handles and doorknobs, the little things that make them take pride in it). most of my tenants stay for several years...best way to avoid vacancies is to keep your current tenants.

Of course, the last decade has been really good for landlords with high demand for places. Things could be a lot different in a slower market.


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## Berubeland

treva84 said:


> So how do you handle the pig tenant (i.e. one that's so messy they under-sell the place with their crap?) I remember back when I was a renter I saw a few apartments and just the mess from the tenant turned me off to the place, when in reality under all of that mess if may have been a very nice apartment. Thinking about it, I would want to select for a tenant that would be turned off by a mess (like I was) as they are probably the most likely to care for the place.
> 
> Is there a clause your lease agreement that stipulates the apartment must be up to "showing condition" or something like that? Or, is cleanliness more a reflection on the type of tenant you select for? Or, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter?


Well the properties I manage/rent tend to be in 99% percentile for what they are. When they are vacant they are cleaned professionally for the most part. We tend to attract very particular tenants who are pretty clean. We also set the expectation from the beginning that we want the place back in the same condition we got it in. We also do a vacate inspection with an expected cleaning list. 

Now our residents don't always do as we ask, but most do. You'll never get unless you ask. I also email them the relevant clauses from the LTB brochure on showing notice (which is not 24 hours) 

I'm a pretty straight talker, and people generally listen to me. 

If a place is a pigsty, I'm not going to try to rent it. I'll tell the owner it can't be done. But renting back to back has been an industry best practice for the last 20 years I've been in it. It's kind of one of those shoot for the stars and you'll get the moon situations. It's just the way I'm set up, I even have vacant pictures for all the properties I've rented for 5? years so as soon as I get notice, boom up go the ads. 

I don't usually have any problems with it because I set up the situation to be proper from the outset, communicate, and frankly I've decided which side I picked long ago, I work for the landlord's business. Even when they don't know their business my job is to guide them and set their property up for the best performance possible. So while I want to be as nice as possible, I'm not that concerned with the outgoing tenant's feelings or convenience. In the 20 years I've been doing this only once has the tenant ever taken me up on my offer to pay an extra month for their "privacy" See tenants and people in general are much more likely to feel justified in the landlord losing the one month but when you ask them to pay...well that's outrageous. 

I'm not really the most popular gal at parties, but I am good at setting these kinds of boundaries, and doing what I have to do to get things done. Now if the property doesn't rent, at least we tried.


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## Berubeland

In case anyone's wondering here's a selection of the kinds of properties I rent/manage. I have quite a few more on the market. I range from Oshawa to Brampton to Milton. 

http://www.rentcompass.com/L110232 Three bedroom North Brampton house

http://www.rentcompass.com/L113213 Two plus den on University Ave 

http://www.rentcompass.com/L116355 Mississauga one bed condo

http://www.rentcompass.com/L116464 Lovely downtown condo

http://www.rentcompass.com/L115403 End unit townhouse in Vaughan

http://www.rentcompass.com/L29958 Richmond Hill 3 bedroom house

:biggrin: Keeps me out of trouble that's all I'm saying.


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## Newby1983

canabiz said:


> *Day 15 update*: I was supposed to have 2 showings today but 1 cancelled (she did call ahead of time). The other party arrived on time and expressed interest (just as many others did, although nothing has materialized so far yet) so I gave him an application.
> 
> I followed up with a couple of promising candidates from last week showing, just to see if they have any question about our place or the application itself.
> 
> A friend commented that the pictures I took are a bit dark and don't exactly do the home justice. I booked an appointment with a photographer who did some work for us in the past and should have better pictures early next week.
> 
> I have only booked 1 more showing for rest of the week: A gentleman recently accepted a job offer in Ottawa and will move up here from Montreal. He passed my pre-screening and would like to see the place on Saturday. He is supposed to see a bunch of homes so I will have to put my best foot forward.
> 
> Question for JAG (or anyone else): You said that you only show the properties when they are vacant e.g. when the tenants have left. Does this mean you may have to eat up to a month (or possibly longer) of vacancy until the places are filled again?
> 
> The reason I want to do the showings now is because I want the new tenant to move in right after the current tenants leave so there is no gap. I understand that is the best case scenario and it comes at the expense of the current tenants, in terms of inconvenience, but I have been really trying to limit the showings as I am sure you can tell by the progress of this thread


Thanks for sharing your ride it's pretty interesting for us small time landlords. I'm probably in the exact same boat as you in terms of a June 1 vacancy. However I've hired a property manager to find a tenant. Their work has been questionable (based on feedback I've feceived on another post). I decided to show it apr 1 with tenant still livng there knowing that it will take longer to secure a new lease (lots of clutter which most people can't see past). I set aside monthly contingencies eg. vacancy for the possibility that I have the place vacant for 1-2 months. If I get no vacancy then bonus, if it doesn't rent for another month or two after then as Berubeland says I take comfort in knowing property values in the city my rental is in have risen 8-10% per year.

The worst thing you can do imo is get desperate as the possibility of vacancy approaches and lower your standards. Perhaps rather then following up with promising tenants try to dig during a showing to get feedback about your place.


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## canabiz

Yes, Newby, I honestly don't know how much better a property management shop would have done versus what I have been doing. This is not a knock against Berubeland or anything because her track record speaks for itself and she is clearly a cut above the rest.

This is anecdotal again but a home close to our place is with a property management shop (I see the sign) and it has been for rent for much longer than ours. They have already dropped price once (Google cache is a good tool!). I guess it's like everything else in life. There are good property managers and there are other property managers. 

Good luck with your rental!


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## Newby1983

canabiz said:


> Yes, Newby, I honestly don't know how much better a property management shop would have done versus what I have been doing. This is not a knock against Berubeland or anything because her track record speaks for itself and she is clearly a cut above the rest.
> 
> This is anecdotal again but a home close to our place is with a property management shop (I see the sign) and it has been for rent for much longer than ours. They have already dropped price once (Google cache is a good tool!). I guess it's like everything else in life. There are good property managers and there are other property managers.
> 
> Good luck with your rental!


You're absolutely right. But I wasn't implying that you should hire a leasing agent. I was suggesting two points 1) don't get desperate as vacancy approaches. If you're tenants are like mine (messy and cluttered) you should have a better chance of renting it out when it's vacant, and 2) get feedback from prospective tenants to find out why they are not submitting an application. 

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Berubeland

The honest truth is that if you have one rental you can take much better care of that single property, than I can with hundreds if you are interested in doing a good job and want to learn and inform yourself. You can pay more attention and more time than I can. Generally this is true of everything, from your accounting to cooking for yourself, to homeschooling your kid. 

What I have on my side is expertise, and a system that works. The landlord business is one of the most legislated environments in which to do business and this can really kill a landlord. But for the most part, most landlord/tenant relationships are without incident and amicable. When it's not, it's very stressful and can be expensive.


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## canabiz

*Day 16 update:* The husband of the family on *Day 8* sent me his driver's license and pay stubs today as supporting documents. The monthly rent + utilities will be around 40% of his monthly net pay, which is on the higher side as I read that it should be 30% top.

I have not run a credit check yet, instead, I have gone back to him and asked whether his wife also works.

I have 2 showings on Saturday and nothing else scheduled for rest of the week, at this point.


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## Micvanlen

I'm a bit late to chime in on Day 1, but you can NEVER let someone tour your place without you. You can actually get into serious trouble for that.


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## Pkount

Hello everyone. New to the site, however been a LL for over 30 yrs. Its been a very interesting read so far as Canabiz has taken us through the trials and tribulations of trying to secure a tenant. I will say this to Canabiz for starters..".it does get better"! I would also like to point out that if you follow most or all of JAG's advice to this point, you will be successful.
It is also important to understand that not everyone is cut out to be a LL; especially an active LL. Many of my colleagues use Property Management firms to oversee the month to month operations and obligations of their rentals. Some with only a couple units.
As JAG has pointed out, focus is paramount. If you were to log the amount of time and effort you have put into procuring a tenant for your unit, you'll see exactly why focus is so critical. Having said that, it should also be stated that what you are going through is really no different than any of us went through when we all first started out. It's called the "Learning Curve".
Not sure if JAG can attest to this but the rental business 20+ years ago was alot different than today, especially and specifically when it comes to finding tenants. In the 80's and 90's, the cost of advertising in newspapers could be a significant expense to many. Screening was also much more difficult as well. The information highway has made that part of the LL equation much easier and more efficient.
Our family over the years has developed a reputation as very fair and honest Landlords, and as JAG also pointed out with his operation, we typically get many referrals and requests from either current or former tenants. That takes time.
The post that caught my eye was early on when one of your potential tenants invited you over to their current place. Don't ever under-estimate how valuable that tool is! There was a time that we almost insisted(in a nice way), to visit the applicants current place of residence. In many cases if the potential tenant met preliminary criteria we would hand the application package to them, and simply ask to pick it up from their place.Obviously there are also reasons why that strategy cant be used (first time tenants, out of town etc...).
There has been some great advice in this thread, but remember, not two LL are the same, and the same applies to tenants. 
My two cents for what its worth:
- Don't get too hung up on the pet thing. A current pet dog/cat is typically better than a new puppy/kitten! (Cat pee can be a nightmare though!)
- First impressions are important - Little lies normally lead to bigger ones
- Try and visit their current residence
- Check references!!!
- Maintenance MUST be a priority.
- Re-Evaluate your investment after a year if you're just starting out. Remember, not everyone can be, or is meant to be a LL!

Looking forward to a happy ending!


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## canabiz

Micvanlen said:


> I'm a bit late to chime in on Day 1, but you can NEVER let someone tour your place without you. You can actually get into serious trouble for that.


Yes that couple caught me off guard as well. I was there 10 minutes early and they still beat me. The current tenant was gracious enough to show them our place but he did not need to do so. I am not sure what their motive was (they never notified me they were early) but in a way I am glad we did not have a deal. I could smell trouble.

*Day 19 update*: So the Montreal guy cancelled half an hour before the scheduled showing because he found a place. I knew it would be a long shot for me to get him because he preferred to move in May and he told me he would see 10 houses today. He actually asked me at 09:00 if he could see our place at 10:00 (our appointment is 15:00) because he would be in the vicinity. I was busy so I told him to keep the original appointment. He did what he considers best for his family, I have no problem with that and we move on.

The second group arrived on time. Family with a number of kids. They like our place but would like to know when we are going to finish the basement to add more living space. That is not high on my priority list right now and I told them as such. I gave them an application and if they are still interested, they know exactly what to do.

I ran a credit check for the husband from *Day 8*. Everything checks out fine according to Equifax, he got a B+ rating (low 700's beacon score). This is possibly our best chance (well it's the only thing we have, to hang our hat on, at the moment) so I'll discuss with my wife before making a final decision. His wife has an online business and I have asked him to send me her proof of income. They would like to give us the first and last next month and they can only move in on July 1st so that means we will have 1 month of vacancy. They have also asked me to give them a discount on the rent because they intend to stay long term. That and rent + utilities will be 40%+ of his net income, as previously mentioned. Not a particularly ideal situation, looking at all the angles, but I suppose it could be worse.

I will still have the photographer taking better pictures Monday and on to Week 4. If we find somebody else who can move in on June 1st and pay the amount we are looking for then I will definitely let this couple know right away as I don't want to leave people hangin'. They will not vacate their current residence until end of June so there is still a lot of time.


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## treva84

canabiz said:


> I ran a credit check for the husband from *Day 8*. Everything checks out fine according to Equifax, he got a B+ rating (low 700's beacon score). This is possibly our best chance (well it's the only thing we have, to hang our hat on, at the moment) so I'll discuss with my wife before making a final decision. His wife has an online business and I have asked him to send me her proof of income. They would like to give us the first and last next month and they can only move in on July 1st so that means we will have 1 month of vacancy. They have also asked me to give them a discount on the rent because they intend to stay long term. That and rent + utilities will be 40%+ of his net income, as previously mentioned. Not a particularly ideal situation, looking at all the angles, but I suppose it could be worse.


Did he say how long a "long term" is?


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## canabiz

treva84 said:


> Did he say how long a "long term" is?


Yes he did say minimum 3 and maximum 5. We are certainly going to approach with caution and will only do yearly lease, if we do go ahead with this. We will evaluate the situation at the end of the first year lease. I will give him the benefits of the doubt but you know as well as I do: people and circumstances change, sometimes through no fault or theirs (or ours) and we have to remain nimble and adaptable...

Another thing is we would be OK to reduce the rent for his family for the 1st year but I don't know about doing so for 3 (or 5 years).

Stay tuned. I am still getting inquiries but have been pre-screening people out before booking any showing. Looking forward to meeting the photographer on Monday and a subsequent ad bump.


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## Plugging Along

Instead of giving a discount right up front for the long tenancy, I would give a 'bonus' of free rent or discount at the end of each year for the long tenancy. For example if the discount $1000 a month he is looking for, then after the first year, he gets last month at $600 off at the time of renewal, end of second year, $1200 off at the end of the each years lease and upon renewal of the lease. Something like that so it not a reduction of rent because it then take off after a year then you are not getting the benefit of the whole time. Also, if you have go after them for breaking the lease, you can go after them for the full monthly amount.


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## Berubeland

There's something in Ontario called the 12 month rule. If you accept a reduced rent for 12 months, that's the new rent!


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## Earl

Micvanlen said:


> I'm a bit late to chime in on Day 1, but you can NEVER let someone tour your place without you. You can actually get into serious trouble for that.


How so? Back when I used to be a tenant a few years ago and when I was moving out and my landlord was trying to find my replacement, my landlord could only make it to about half the showings, the rest of the time he just called me to tell me when viewers would show up and I let them in to look around. Are you saying this is bad practice, or am I misunderstanding?


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## canabiz

*Day 23 update:* I uploaded the new pictures and bumped the ad up yesterday and the response has been very positive although I have had to screen out a number of prospects and only booked 1 showing for Saturday, thus far.

Once again this is anecdotal but I have recently come across a couple of requests that are a little bit different, shall we put it that way.

- A lady contacted me 3 different times and quite possibly asked a family member (same last name and same story) to contact me the 4th time to say that her dog is hypo-allergenic (I had to look this word up) and I should not have any problem renting my place to her

- Another lady asked if I have any problem renting out my place to 2 single moms. I honestly do not know why she asked me that question in the first place.


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## canabiz

Folks, I have set up appointment with the Family from *Day 8* to sign the lease next Monday (May 2nd). They would like to know what documents they should bring, outside of the first and last month deposit and post-dated cheques.

The husband has already sent me a copy of his driver's license and pay stubs. I already have a copy of his Equifax credit check.

More updates to follow...


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## tygrus

Canabiz, no offense but you have unknowingly posted the longest running advertisement on why not to be a landlord.

I collected my REIT dividends since you started this post.

Seriously, you are going to go through this level of aggravation a couple times every year?


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## canabiz

tygrus, I am sorry to disturb your fine Sunday night. 

It seems like your posts are all about REIT. You are free to post your thoughts and perspectives as I welcome all feedback but for the record, I also have REIT holdings too.

Like I said in a previous post, I am a more experienced landlord now that I ever was before and it is worth it for me to go through these trials and tribulations.


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## Just a Guy

Tygrus, to counterbalance this, in the same time as he's run this posting I've bought and renovated two places. They were purchased for 95k and 70k, the renovations cost less than $3k each in materials. They are both rented one for 1400, the other for 1250. The first was appraised at $140k, mortgaged for 112k, the second is going to be appraised and financed in the next couple of weeks, my bet would be it'll appraise around 130k. 

Canabiz is going through the process for the first time, which is always the hardest. He's still trying to figure it out, develop his own system.

My bet is, most landlords probably fall somewhere in between canabiz and myself when it comes to workload. Canabiz's workload will decrease going forward as he learns, my guess is his returns will outperform your REITs long term as well.


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## canabiz

I am not going to celebrate, just quite yet  That will come next Monday when I deposit the first and last (I asked them to bring a money order for that). I have also asked them to arrange tenant insurance and send me a copy prior to moving in.

We will have 1 month of vacancy as they don't move in until July 1st but that's the cost of doing business. I could have taken the easy way out and let the agent (or property management) find tenants for me and I just have to sit back and cash the cheques but I wanted to learn the process and develop my own system, as JAG and a number of other folks have alluded to. Frankly, the experience I gained throughout this journey is probably more valuable than any other business courses I took or real estate seminars I attended in the past.

Next post will be what I call *the numbers*.


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## tygrus

The long term gain in most investment properties is likely zero, especially from here out. You have upkeep and maintenance after every renter as well as long term upkeep. You are going to have a few months here and there with no cash flow. And rental income is taxed at 40% or higher. Interest income is not deductible because its not an active business. And if you do sell it, capital gains is 25% plus a realtor fee and transfer taxes and legal fees. 

REITS will drastically out perform any property out there with no expenses and a tax efficient income stream. I can compound my REITS returns with drips and I get a discount to do so, you cannot do that with a property. Plus the sleep like a baby premium is priceless.


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## Just a Guy

You did actually read my numbers right? 

For my negative cash investment, I've got a cash flow positive property. These properties can easily afford the upgrades and vacancies. My accountant (paid for by the property) seems to keep my taxes very favourable. 

Let's say the market tanks, I keep the place for 20 years, it's paid off but prices have dropped by 50%. My properties will only be worth 65-70k...but I put no money into them, it would be a capital loss, so the money would be tax free. Not a bad return in a crash, especially considering the bank gave me money for the purchase.

How will your REITs do if they dropped by 50%? You've lost part of your investment, if you can even get your money back. Many REITs have been a front for money shenanigans. Do you really trust the management?


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## tygrus

Just a Guy said:


> You did actually read my numbers right?


Thats your numbers. Not everyone can do something like that consistently, in fact most can't. And just because its the banks money doesnt change the fact its a loss. You still need to service that debt. If I take a loss, I dont have any debt to service unless I margined.

REIT companies are doing the same thing you are only they are pros at it so you dont have to be. All you need to do is collect the cash.


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## treva84

canabiz said:


> I am not going to celebrate, just quite yet  That will come next Monday when I deposit the first and last (I asked them to bring a money order for that). I have also asked them to arrange tenant insurance and send me a copy prior to moving in.
> 
> We will have 1 month of vacancy as they don't move in until July 1st but that's the cost of doing business. I could have taken the easy way out and let the agent (or property management) find tenants for me and I just have to sit back and cash the cheques but I wanted to learn the process and develop my own system, as JAG and a number of other folks have alluded to. Frankly, the experience I gained throughout this journey is probably more valuable than any other business courses I took or real estate seminars I attended in the past.
> 
> Next post will be what I call *the numbers*.


Experience is invaluable - your bank account may not yet reflect it but you just gained a whole bunch of human capital in yourself!


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## Just a Guy

You're right, not everyone can do something like that...especially if they never try to. 

While at times I too found this thread taxing (I forgot what it's like at the beginning), canabiz took the feedback and made changes. He's learning something new. Aren't you one of those who believes in the value of an education? Many people talk about how much greater one's earning power is after being educated. This is just another example of this.

You probably look at those people who "invest" in HISA as foolish, especially since REITs make better returns with a little education. Once you're an educated landlord, you tend to look at REIT investors the same way. There are much better returns out there for the taking, and ways (once you develop systems) to minimize the work and risk involved. 

I'm sure there are others out there who are getting better returns than I do as well who look at me the same way.


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## Earl

Just a Guy said:


> Tygrus, to counterbalance this, in the same time as he's run this posting I've bought and renovated two places. They were purchased for 95k and 70k, the renovations cost less than $3k each in materials. They are both rented one for 1400, the other for 1250.


Where did you find such properties? I assume this is in a rural area, or very small town? I'm looking through the listings on realtor.ca in nearby smaller towns and I see nothing for under 200k that would rent for anywhere close to 1400/month.

When I was a renter a few years ago I was paying $1300/month to rent a condo in the GTA (sheppard and bayview area) that had a value of about 350k (my estimation based on what other units in that building were listed as), so your numbers seem incredible.


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## Just a Guy

I tend to look at major cities across Canada, I'm not against smaller towns, but as you pointed out the rents are generally lower. While not common, properties do pop up every once in a while. These places were a "forced to sell" situation. An "investor" going through a divorce, and a long sitting foreclosure. Both came in at under 50% below market value. One was a three bedroom ($1400) and the other (1250) a two bedroom place. The two bedroom was, in my opinion, and exceptional buy, it had been listed several times for over 100k, I was the only offer on it in almost a year...but then not a lot of people are buying today.


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## Earl

What are your thoughts on investing in single family units (houses, condos) versus multi-family units?

Here is an example, it's a 5 plex for $264k https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Multi-family/16814788/WINDSOR
Gross income of 39k/yr seems like a good return. Would it be a good idea for a landlord just starting out to buy a building such as that? Or should new landlords stick to single family dwellings.


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## tygrus

JAG assumes I have no landlord experience. I did it with 4 places for more than 5 years and after much frustration just sold the lot, bought some more farmland and REITs. Best thing I ever did. 

If I was going to buy another property and thats a big if, I would look for a stand alone property with street level commercial with residential above.

And actually, I would probably try to move to managing 4 daily rentals. Then the income justifies the hassle.


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## Just a Guy

Earl said:


> What are your thoughts on investing in single family units (houses, condos) versus multi-family units?
> 
> Here is an example, it's a 5 plex for $264k https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Multi-family/16814788/WINDSOR
> Gross income of 39k/yr seems like a good return. Would it be a good idea for a landlord just starting out to buy a building such as that? Or should new landlords stick to single family dwellings.


I'd prefer to buy a multi-family unit as there are some benefits over single family. That being said, places with more than 4-5 doors may fall into commercial lending, and other requirements such as environmental impact reports and such.

The main reason I'm buying single family places right now is the price. Why would I pay 100k+/door for an apartment (which has bachelor suites) when I can pick up a 3 bedroom place for less than 100k?

The problem with the listing you found may be the location...Windsor doesn't have a lot of employment other than the casino, it has a high crime rate in some areas, and not a lot of prospects for growth. It looks like a pretty good building from the pictures, but pictures can lie, you'd have to check out what shape it's in too. I'm not saying that property wouldn't do well, but you need to do proper due dilligence to make sure you understand what you are getting into. Remember, you can make money even in a dying town if the price is right.


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## Just a Guy

Tygrus,

Don't take this personally as I don't know your situation but there is a big difference between owning something and being an "investor". This applies to stocks as well as real estate. Owing a rental, being a "landlord", does not make you a real estate investor. Many people are more gamblers, buying something and praying everything will work out. Even if they are successful, it doesn't mean they are investors, they were lucky.

Investors often have systems in place, know when to buy, when to sell, etc. They have a plan and aren't just "winging it". 

I've met many people who claim to have experience in real estate investing...usually negative. For the most part, once you look into it, you generally find that they had no clue as to what they were doing.

If you prefer, I could provide you with hundreds of people who've invested in stocks (including REITs) who've also lost money and claim investing in the market is only for fools...

Of the true investors I know (in stocks, companies, and real estate), none of them would say any form of investing is bad...there are only bad investors.


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## RCB

canabiz, soak up that education. It gets so much easier as time goes by. Over the last four years I have tweaked my processes to the point where I now just smile to myself on the first of each month as I collect my rent by email transfers, enter a few transactions in my software, and go back to my life for a month.

No regrets.


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## Prospector

Just a Guy said:


> Tygrus,
> 
> Don't take this personally as I don't know your situation but there is a big difference between owning something and being an "investor". This applies to stocks as well as real estate. Owing a rental, being a "landlord", does not make you a real estate investor. Many people are more gamblers, buying something and praying everything will work out. Even if they are successful, it doesn't mean they are investors, they were lucky.
> 
> Investors often have systems in place, know when to buy, when to sell, etc. They have a plan and aren't just "winging it".
> 
> I've met many people who claim to have experience in real estate investing...usually negative. For the most part, once you look into it, you generally find that they had no clue as to what they were doing.
> 
> If you prefer, I could provide you with hundreds of people who've invested in stocks (including REITs) who've also lost money and claim investing in the market is only for fools...
> 
> Of the true investors I know (in stocks, companies, and real estate), none of them would say any form of investing is bad...there are only bad investors.


Thanks for this. Food for thought for sure. As someone considering Real Estate, I'd love to know what factors beyond a spreadsheet you are saying an investor has over a landlord. One of the mentions I see a lot on here is about putting together the right team - yet I also see people absenteeing places and there is no way you can have that team of agents, lawyers, managers, etc. in every town across Canada (and the US). Can you expand a little on what edge the investors have over the buyers?


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## Just a Guy

What are the differences between someone who randomly buys a few stocks, and an investor?

Knowledge is a big difference. A plan is a big difference.

A good real estate investor knows a lot about the property they are buying. For example, they have some idea about construction (knowing the current conditions of the roof, Windows, structure, interior, exterior, plumbing, electrical, etc.). They know what it costs to repair/replace things. They know lifespans, and can project costs going forward.

How many people have we seen here who even bother to budget for maintenance in their numbers?

Then they know the area they are investing in. What are the demographics? Who are their potential tenants? What is the crime rate? How does the area compare to others in the same town/city? What is the reputation of the building for police and the public? Is the area about to turn around and become better or worse (I've found that there is a cycle to this). 

Knowing what a good property is is another step. Buying a ready to go place is often a mistake, spotting the diamond in the rough, especially these days, is vital.

What is a good price for a property? I've seen people coming on here talking about $500k for a single door, then cooking their numbers to show it cash flows...yeah right. There aren't many properties available right now, an investor knows when to stay in cash until the right investment arrives. 

Do you know the difference between buying a single family home, a multi family home and commercial? There are huge differences.

How good are you at negotiating? Did you research the property, do you know it's financials, history, what the seller paid, what the comparables are, what they should be, how to calculate the real cash flow, what your mortgage and expenses will be, etc. Can you read people and know when they will go lower, what are the best times of the year to buy?

Next, how do you buy the property without tying up all your cash. Even with 80% leverage, it's expensive to buy and ties up a lot of your money. Investors know how to maximize leverage and minimize their cash output. I've gotten to the point where I can usually get all my money back out, allowing me to buy more.

Then there is getting by the banks. They have all sorts of limits to try and hold you back, or charge you more. A good investor gets by these artificial limits, and gets the lower rates. What are the current mortgage rates, what clauses do you need to have/not have in the mortgage. Heck, given the mortgage rate, I can guess pretty close what my monthly payment will be without using a mortgage calculator...that trick impresses the hell out of a bank and let's them know I'm serious about what I do. Knowing what they are going to ask for (personal finances, business finances, building finances, etc.) and having it all ready to hand over to them right away also helps, not to mention handing them a business plan complete with 5, 10 & 15 year projections (using real numbers, they do check) helps too.

Next is how are they going to make money. What is the rent, how secure is it, etc. If the tenants are good, but run into trouble, what programs can they be directed to, which may help them get over short term issues?

How do you screen a tenant? Do you know how to run a credit check? How about spotting people who fake their application? How many "landlords" just trust their gut?

If you get a bad tenant, how do you get rid of them as quickly as possible? Once you get the property back, how soon can you have it fixed and rented again?

Even repairs, all my places use the same general design. I'm not trying to remember which paint I used where, what brand of flooring will match, etc.

What systems do you have in place for all these issues?

Notice, nothing so far has to do with any team of people yet. Getting the right team is hard too. I had to train my realtors to find me the right properties. They don't know investment properties any better than anyone else...they are just people. Many tried to upsell me, turned on me to pay too much, etc. Knowing that they are salesmen, not advisors is pretty important.

Property managers are a whole other conversation both their personal ones and the building ones. Too many people turn over their properites with no idea what's going on day to day. How many people are on the condo boards for their properties? How many can read a financial statement? How many are being screwed by their property managers? It happens a lot I can tell you. I've fired many a building property management company and even had a few shut down for illegal practices.

This is just a little food for thought.


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## canabiz

Deal is off, folks, my mistake. Long story so I will have to provide details later.

I currently have 2 solid prospective tenants to work with. I am taking a page out of Berubeland's playbook and will only process 1 application at a time.

1 guy said he will send me an application by end of day today even though he has not seen the home yet (we have appointment for showing tomorrow). If I don't receive anything by end of day today then all bets are off and I'll move on to the other one who did see the home on Saturday but has not sent me anything yet, pending an answer from her landlord.

I explained the situation to both of them, who understand the position I am in, and they appreciate the fact I have been upfront with them from the get-go. 

Stay tuned. The trial and tribulation continue but you know what I wouldn't have it any other way


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## canabiz

I received both applications and will meet the guy tomorrow for a showing. Solid candidate based on the information he provided as well as pay stubs. I once again took a page out of Berubeland's playbook and asked him to bring a money order representing the last month, as a security deposit, which he said he would.

I bumped my ad up on Kijiji yesterday and actually spent some coins to make it a Top Ad. I spent most of my day today responding to inquiries, from as far as Vancouver, and I got a good feeling this time around. I truly did not expect this many people to be looking for rentals (all for different circumstances, mind you) and I have more confidence now that if we pick up another rental, we know what needs to be done.

Thank you all for your patience and for putting up with my rambling posts, at times. The journey should be coming to an end soon but I feel as motivated and as empowered as ever and that is what matters at the end of the day.


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## nredding

Are you willing to provide a link to your ad on Kijiji?


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## canabiz

nredding said:


> Are you willing to provide a link to your ad on Kijiji?


http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?requestSource=b&adId=1161174605

As you know, I stick to my guns about not having pets and I had to turn down several prospective tenants because of that. 

The guy who is going to bring the money order tomorrow actually told me ours is a rare find because his kids have allergies and he respects the fact this is a pet-free, smoke-free home. It warms my heart to hear that knowing there are people out there who appreciate what we have to offer...


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## canabiz

And with the 100th post for this thread, I am happy to report we signed the lease today! I deposited the money order for first and last and that is a wrap! New tenant will arrange utilities accounts transfer and will bring proof of tenant insurance as well as 10 post-dated cheques (he had to order a new set) prior to me giving him the keys.

Here is a look at some numbers that could be of interest to (Ottawa and small-time) landlords

*1* townhouse in Ottawa for rent

*38* days posted online (March 28 - May 4). I did not have a sign on the lawn.

*92 * unique inquiries from a variety of sources (breakdown below including a listing of places that I had a presence). 

Kijiji (65). Without question, Kijiji is the most popular website for rental in the Ottawa area, based on my experience.

UsedOttawa.com (12). Solid for a website that was once as popular as Kijiji, at least in the Ottawa area.

Craigslist (3). I am really disappointed in Craigslist, it is simply no longer what it used to be, at least in this area.

Grapevine - Ottawa For Sale By Owner site (5 emails + 2 phones calls because phone number is mandatory = 7)

OttawaKorean.com messageboard (5). We understand Korean so decided to try our luck here as we figure it doesn't hurt to spread the word around.

Rentershotline.ca (0)

RentSpot (0)

Ottawa-Rentals (0)

FreeRentAds (0)

OttawaFSBO.com (0)

Trovit.ca (0)

RentCompass (0)

RentalSource (0)

Rentler (0)

PostedAd.ca (0)

Locanto (0)

Locata.ca (0)

RentHello (0)

*5* inquiries from out of town: Montreal (1), Vancouver (1), Calgary (1), Toronto (2)

*15* showings. Majority of which happened in the first couple of weeks where I did not know what I was doing until JAG straightened me out 

*3* applications received

*2* credit checks

I will document some of my lessons learned in the next post.


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## Newby1983

Congrats you put a lot of work into this and thanks for sharing the journey. 

I'd be interested to know 6 months from now how your tenants worked out. 

Your ratio of applications to showings seems consistent with what a prop manager suggested but for the gta (1 app every 5 showings).


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## FinancialFreedom

Thanks for this thread! Lots of knowledge! and congrats on finding the right tenant!

I have a question though. I recently bought my first house, renovated the basement into an apartment, and over the last month or so we were looking to rent it out (Girlfriend and I live upstairs). We had lots of people call, screened the callers based on our needs, and had maybe 30 people want to come look. Of those 30, maybe 15-20 actually showed up (not a big deal for us since we live there anyway we didn't have to wait around or anything. Of those 20, 3 dropped off applications. We did reference checks on all 3, then a credit check on the one with the best references. He said he was very quiet, no pets, no smoking, worked 40+ hours a week, all previous landlords said he always paid on time, kept the places fairly clean ect. So yesterday we told him that he was accepted, and in a few weeks we were to meet to collect first and last and sign the lease. Last night he posted on facebook and made an event, a house warming party starting at 7 30 on a wed, inviting a bunch of people and telling them to bring their own booze. This kind of worries me, and REALLY worries the gf, as we both work in the morning, I have to get up at 5:30 am and she gets up at 7:30. I understand this might be a one time thing for house warming, but I'm wondering if there's anything I can put in the lease to protect me that will actually stand(no guests after 10?)? Or would this be enough to cancel the agreement for some of you? (and would that be even legal, or would it be considered discriminatory :stupid 

Thanks for all the help, this is my first time renting a property but I hope to build up a big portfolio like JAG over the next 20-40 years. The renovation part is my expertise, the renting part not so much, lots to learn and excited to learn about it.


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## Just a Guy

First off, is it a legal suite? Did you get permits, is the place zoned for multi-family? If not you could be facing multiple fines.

Next, there really isn't much you can do legally except talk to the guy. If they break city bylaws, like a noise complaint after 11 pm, you call the police. When you have enough complaints documented, you may have grounds for an eviction. Depending on the province, and the tenant's knowledge of the rules, evictions can be difficult or not.

Having been a landlord, I can tell you I'd never have a rental as part of my main residence. If you want to survive in this business mentally, you need a clear separation between personal life and business life, not to mention the security aspect to all this...


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## Earl

I agree with JAG. I live alone in a decent sized detached house and could surely make a lot of extra money by renting out the basement but it's not worth the headache. I could have saved a lot of money and bought a condo but I paid a premium for a detached house because I like the peace and quiet and privacy that provides. Even a very quiet considerate tenant is likely to cause a nuisance. If your schedules don't match up and one needs to wake up early while the other wakes up late, you will get on each others' nerves. Then there are odors to deal with, since a house has only a single hvac system so if he cooks something stinky you have to smell it. Not worth it even for $1000/month!

I don't think you can legally enforce something like "no visitors at certain hours" if it's a separate suite. If you share a bathroom/kitchen with the tenant then different rules apply.


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## FinancialFreedom

Just a Guy said:


> First off, is it a legal suite? Did you get permits, is the place zoned for multi-family? If not you could be facing multiple fines.
> 
> Next, there really isn't much you can do legally except talk to the guy. If they break city bylaws, like a noise complaint after 11 pm, you call the police. When you have enough complaints documented, you may have grounds for an eviction. Depending on the province, and the tenant's knowledge of the rules, evictions can be difficult or not.
> 
> Having been a landlord, I can tell you I'd never have a rental as part of my main residence. If you want to survive in this business mentally, you need a clear separation between personal life and business life, not to mention the security aspect to all this...


Yeah it's all legal! I understand it's not ideal to have a rental as part of my main residence, but this is the perfect way for me to get started. We plan on buying our own house in the next couple years and renting out the main floor and basement of this one, and then use the equity to buy another rental(have to do a lot of research on how to get the financing easier for more). The security/smells is not a problem, as the basement needed a separate heating/cooling system then the upstairs, so we went with electric heat, there is no shared hvac. We also did soundproofing which was a legal requirement as well (but it's still not "sound proof"), and it is a separate entrance so security is not an issue. 

Thanks for the replies, that's unfortunate I can't put anything in the lease but I will talk to him and let him know. It's also good to know about the 11 pm noise complaints. I'll just have a talk with him and give him one warning, then anything after that I'll call the police and document it. He seems like a reasonable tenant, so talking to him will hopefully be enough! Thanks again


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## nredding

FinancialFreedom said:


> Last night he posted on facebook and made an event, a house warming party starting at 7 30 on a wed, inviting a bunch of people and telling them to bring their own booze. This kind of worries me, and REALLY worries the gf, as we both work in the morning, I have to get up at 5:30 am and she gets up at 7:30.


Party invites that are posted on social media are scary since you have no idea how many people will turn up. You hear about teens doing this and their parent's house ends up being trashed. You should talk to your tenant and set a reasonable finish time for the party, say 11 pm.

My tenants are a couple with a toddler, which means I never have to worry about noisy parties!


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## canabiz

Just a number of lessons I learned during this journey that I would like to share, to close the loop on this one

- I learned good quality pictures make a big difference

- I learned posting ads 6 weeks - 4 weeks out from the vacancy date will generate the most solid leads

- I learned pre-screening prospective tenants save a lot of time and effort

- I learned people will contact you any time of the day and any day of the week but weekdays are your best bets

- I learned it pays to have your ad at the top. People don't want to go back more than a few pages 

- I learned to respond to all inquiries promptly and courteously. Anyone of those inquiries can translate into a solid lead. I can't satisfy everyone but I don't have a d-bag to anyone

- I learned to take the emotions out of this. It's all about the numbers, if they don't add up, walk away, no matter how nice people can be

- Best of all, I learned to persevere. I second-guessed myself a number of times throughout the journey and thought about going with a property management company but I knew if I stuck to the fundamentals and continued to fine-tune the process, good things would eventually happen and they did!

Best of luck to you, Newby & Financial Freedom in your journeys, and other landlords! I could not have done this without your support, advice and encouragement and for that I am truly grateful!

Cheers!


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## OnlyMyOpinion

Canabiz,
Thank you for all the work you put into documenting your learnings and recommendations on this thread. A very helpful resource for others to read.
Best of luck to you as well!


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## NorthKC

I just wanted to say thank you so much for documenting your journey. Yes, you've made mistakes but it was helpful to see why it was a mistake and how you can learn from it. It definitely gave me an insight in the joys and difficulties in finding a tenant and will factor into me being a potential landlord in the future.

One of your lessons - good, quality pictures. As a former tenant, I loved good quality pictures. It showed me that the landlord cares about the property and it gave me comfort knowing that s/he will be around to help. In addition, my time is valuable so I don't want to check out a place if I can't tell what it looks like and waste both my time and the landlord's if it didn't meet my expectations.

I can honestly say that I've never been pre-screened for many years despite me providing info on the application as once the landlords knew who I was working for, they could count on me being a good tenant. So, I lucked out there. haha

Congratulations and good luck!


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## Berubeland

Thank you, this was an awesome journey for you and me too.


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