# Cell phone tech experts, I need some advice.



## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

The girlfriends blackberry is on it's last legs, and she is looking to switch to an iphone. We have an unlocked iphone 4. 

The concern is that so far, we have been unable to get any iphone to work up at the cottage. 

Her BB works fine in cottage country, which is why she is reluctant to switch. 

Ideally we would like a working iphone in cottage country but we would also be happy with anything that works. I.e iphone in the city for day to day, and a separate pay as you go phone for cottage emergencies, etc. 

Why does the BB work, and not the iphone? Is it the technology, or is it the carrier?

Roger maps show the area as being covered, but my ipad wouldn't work. 

Any advice? Iphone, and swap out SIM cards to whatever carrier works or separate "older" phone that works?

CDMA /gsm/800/900/1800mhz, it's all gibberish, and each customer service rep seems to know less than I do, which is bad. 

Thanks in advance


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

praire_guy said:


> Is it the technology, or is it the carrier?


Both of the above come into play, in fringe areas the carrier's tower location would likely play a bigger role though. Also, every model can be a fair bit different, for better or worse signal wise, as the antennas and quality of receivers are different. For a general unscientific observation, the newer phones seem to be getting worse in fringe areas but on the plus side, more remote towers are going up each year. My older unsmart "flip-phone" almost always outperforms the newer smart phones (any brand) in cottage country.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

It's funny that newer "smarter" phones don't perform as well. 

Can I still buy a new "old" phone? What do I look for, and how do I know?

Should I buy a bunch of SIM cards and swap them out with the iphone 4? Or is money better spent on another phone ?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

They tend to put the money where it's used most on the newer devices, data transfer with a reasonable signal. Again, this is just a comparison between my old phone and some friends out in the boonies, not a real reliable test but I thought it was worth mentioning. There are some cell phones forums around, might have some remote usage discussions, maybe try howardforums.

Don't forget to check tower coverage in your area, one provider might have a much better line of sight that'll make all the difference, much more that a better phone would.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

I have to agree with cainvest. I used to work for Nortel on cell phone GSM technology telephony equipment (not cell phone towers though). 

The frequency used, the design of the cell phone (antennae placement) inside the phone and the signal strength/radiation pattern of the nearest cell phone tower (tri-antennae) to the cottage. are all factors in reception
qualty.

You would have to look at the transmit/receive frequency specs on the iphone that you are thinking of buying and try to match up the iphone specs nearest the blackberry specs. The digital reception technology is quite complicated and one brand that may work at the cottage isn't always the case for another manufacturer/brand that you want to replace it with. 

In the city with higher radiation strengths from the cell towers it's not a problem, but in fringe areas or extreme fringe, it is.

*Blackberry Curve 9320*
Transmitting frequency:
GSM 824-849 MHz; GSM 880-915 MHz: DCS 1710-1785 MHz; PCS 1850-1910 MHz
IMT (2100) 1920-1980 MHz; 1700 AWS (1700) 1710-1755 MHz

Receiving frequency:
GSM 869-894 MHz; GSM 925-960 MHz; DCS 1805-1880 MHz; PCS 1930-1990 MHz
IMT (2100) 2110-2170 MHz; AWS (1700) 2110-2155 MHz


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

If a BB works on another carrier, then you are probably located closer to that carrier's tower or the other's line of sight is blocked. With an unlocked iPhone you could try the same carrier as the BB.

You could get a cell signal booster/amplifier on kijiji. The built in antennae on smart phones are smaller than old phones. iPhone 4 gets interference without a bumper case, because the antennae is on the frame.. The carriers all sell boosters for cottage internet now.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

m3s said:


> If a BB works on another carrier, then you are probably located closer to that carrier's tower or the other's line of sight is blocked.


That's my guess too. I often go to remote areas where one person's phone gets a good strong signal but everyone else gets nothing. It always comes down to the carrier in those cases.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

To answer your question (in short), the problem is the iPhone.

Mode had some good recommendations on a cell booster. This is probably your best bet. Changing SIM's will not make a difference if it is all under Rogers and I would suspect changing SIM's for a different carrier would most probably cause lackluster signal, as well. The increase (if any) would be marginal, at best.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

m3s said:


> If a BB works on another carrier, then you are probably located closer to that carrier's tower or the other's line of sight is blocked. With an unlocked iPhone you could try the same carrier as the BB.


Yes, you have point there. If it is GSM (Global System Mobile) then there could be other factors that also affect signal strength.


> GSM networks operate in a number of different carrier frequency ranges (separated into GSM frequency ranges for 2G and UMTS frequency bands for 3G), with most 2G GSM networks operating in the 900 MHz or 1800 MHz bands. Where these bands were already allocated, the 850 MHz and 1900 MHz bands were used instead (for example in Canada and the United States). In rare cases the 400 and 450 MHz frequency bands are assigned in some countries because they were previously used for first-generation system





> You could get a cell signal booster/amplifier on kijiji. The built in antennae on smart phones are smaller than old phones. iPhone 4 gets interference without a bumper case, because the antennae is on the frame.. The carriers all sell boosters for cottage internet now.


Yes, thanks M3S...forgot to mention that in my previous post..after all I've been out of the business over 10 years, and that makes me a techie dina-saur), but lots of these available at different price ranges.

Here's one available at the Source. (Z-Force) which is an amplifed (12volt cigarette lighter plug) inside your car. ($150), but there may be others that are much cheaper. 

http://www.thesource.ca/estore/prod...4tP29LRj-xWHhDo_aAUIRJ-zfIDJGk7N_8GqUf0s2bDMv


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> To answer your question (in short), the problem is the iPhone.
> 
> Mode had some good recommendations on a cell booster. This is probably your best bet. Changing SIM's will not make a difference if it is all under Rogers and I would suspect changing SIM's for a different carrier would most probably cause lackluster signal, as well. The increase (if any) would be marginal, at best.


Yes, changing service providers doesn't change the antenna strength at the cell tower. There are communication standards that all carriers have to use and it depends on who's tower the other carriers are using as the frequencies and services
are multiplexed (several providers can work off the same tower in a shared agreement) and changing the SIM chip DOES NOT ALWAYS GUARANTEE BETTER RECEPTION..it really depends on the technology used...3G. 4G or LTE as well.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> That's my guess too. I often go to remote areas where one person's phone gets a good strong signal but everyone else gets nothing. It always comes down to the carrier in those cases.


..or the brand of phone you may be using. The older generation (flip phones) actually had these pullout little antennas to boost reception...most of the later generation the antenna is built into the case, shielded by your hand which
isn't always the best RF signal receptor.


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## dave2012 (Feb 17, 2012)

Changing providers might work 'if' they have a closer tower.

I camp a lot where I need to be connected, and its a challenge as it is a fringe area for both providers, although they show 3G. I have tried various antennas, directional and omni, and a Wilson amplifier. The issue seems to be the amp doesn't work if you are connected at the slower Edge/1X/2G speeds. I have devices for both providers as backup. If one doesn't work in the spot I am in, the other often works.

I'd try to find out which provider has the best signal in that area, and then try a combination antenna/amp solution, making sure it will work with the available signal. Check out Wilson's various antennas and amps.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

dave2012 said:


> *Changing providers might work 'if' they have a closer tower.*
> 
> I camp a lot where I need to be connected, and its a challenge as it is a fringe area for both providers, although they show 3G. I have tried various antennas, directional and omni, and a Wilson amplifier. The issue seems to be the amp doesn't work if you are connected at the slower Edge/1X/2G speeds. I have devices for both providers as backup. If one doesn't work in the spot I am in, the other often works.
> 
> I'd try to find out which provider has the best signal in that area, and then try a combination antenna/amp solution, making sure it will work with the available signal. Check out Wilson's various antennas and amps.


I was on telus then switched to bell then finally Wind . I found that at my campground (just west of Perth on hwy 7) that Rogers, & Wiind didn't have any proper reception to answer calls or make calls 
unless you walked to a "certain spot" in the campground stood on a picnic table and made your calls from there. Calls would come in but drop off. 

This was because Rogers/Wind was using the nearest cell tower on hwy7, which was in the gray area of reception for the campground, situated in a low spot because of the small lake (McGowan Lake).

As soon a I switched to Bell, I was using the Bell tower visible across the small lake, no more reception problems and I could make calls from inside the metal covered trailer.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

You can get refurbished older BBs at XS Cargo, Factory Direct, or the like. I got my BB (unlocked) at XS Cargo, and I would not trade it for houses.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

wendi1 said:


> You can get refurbished older BBs at XS Cargo, Factory Direct, or the like. I got my BB (unlocked) at XS Cargo, and* I would not trade it for houses*.


Why not Wendi? Seems like a good deal to trade a refurbished BB for a nice 3 bedroom house.:biggrin:


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

I'll look into a cell booster. I just figured since I have an unlocked iphone 4 I could buy the SIM cards for 711(rogers) and virgin(bell) and dreadfull mts. 

My iphone is on telus and doesn't work in the fringe. The gf's daughter has an iphone 5 on virgin and she just told me it doesn't work. 

Rogers has the right coverage on the map, but like you all said, it depends.......

The gf was told that her bb works because it is CDMA not GSM. 

is there a CDMA iphone? 

So what's the best route then without wasting money? Booster first, and then new sims to find a closer tower?


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Forgot to add that her bb is a curve 9330. I'll start hunting on ebay for a refurb


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

praire_guy said:


> I'll look into a cell booster. I just figured since I have an unlocked iphone 4 I could buy the SIM cards for 711(rogers) and virgin(bell) and dreadfull mts.
> 
> My iphone is on telus and doesn't work in the fringe. The gf's daughter has an iphone 5 on virgin and she just told me it doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Well, you do have a 15 day return policy to try out different carriers (under the new law). You could always try the other carriers with your iphone, just make sure the 15 day cancellation applies and it might just cost you a sim card or something to try it out. Might even want to ask them where, get them to show you on google maps, their actual tower is before you even try.

CDMA will likely give you better distance but CDMA is becoming obsolete and may no longer work in 1-3 years depending on how fast shift over to the newer tech.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

praire_guy said:


> I'll look into a cell booster. I just figured since I have an unlocked iphone 4 I could buy the SIM cards for 711(rogers) and virgin(bell) and dreadfull mts.
> 
> My iphone is on telus and doesn't work in the fringe. The gf's daughter has an iphone 5 on virgin and she just told me it doesn't work.
> 
> Rogers has the right coverage on the map, but like you all said, it depends.......


yes it depends on the type of service available from Rogers, the subscriber base and their upgrade program for the cell towers and transmitters as well as the telephony equipment in the central office (Telus?) that receives the digital formatted speech
path and switches it onto the PSTN (public switched telephone network) 
iphone 4 has been discontinued. check this link to see how you can tell the iphone4 apart
note: 


> The iPhone 4 (CDMA) model, on the other hand, instead supports CDMA (EV-DO, Rev. A, 800 MHz, 1900 MHz), which means that global coverage is considerably more limited.


http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...n-att-gsm-iphone-4-verizon-cdma-iphone-4.html

iphone 5 is cdma
http://www.theverge.com/products/iphone-5-cdma/6125



> The gf was told that her bb works because it is CDMA not GSM.


You need to find out what cell phone services your provider is using at their cell phone towers in your area..otherwise you will do a lot of running around and (possibly) wasting your money with the wrong
product for the service offered.

Definition: CDMA, or Code Division Multiple Access, is a competing cell phone service technology to GSM, which is the world’s most widely used cell phone standard. 

CDMA uses a “spread-spectrum” technique whereby electromagnetic energy is spread to allow for a signal with a wider bandwidth. This allows multiple people on multiple cell phones to be “multiplexed” over the same channel to share a bandwidth of frequencies. 


> With CDMA technology, data and voice packets are separated using codes and then transmitted using a wide frequency range. Since more space is often allocated for data with CDMA,
> this standard became attractive for 3G high-speed mobile Internet use.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

praire_guy said:


> is there a CDMA iphone?


In the USA yes. Some people have imported them for this reason but it's not worth the hassle imo. If you can get CDMA signal though, you must have line of sight with a tower.. if you have line of sight with a tower, then a booster might work. It could pick up a signal the iPhone cannot.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

cainvest said:


> CDMA will likely give you better distance but CDMA is becoming obsolete and may no longer work in 1-3 years depending on how fast shift over to the newer tech.


The LTE (Long term evolution) is changing cell phone technology and the products available it boggles the mind! I blame those dogs (FIDO) on the TV commercials. People these days want to do *everything* from the convenience of their cellphones, and the service providers are eager to cash in with contracts. 

However the fastest technological changes will be driven by the subscriber base and profit margins, since it takes HUNDREDS OF MILLONS for the cell phone providers, and the Telcos
to upgrade their infrastructure. Just don't expect any major changes in "God's Country"..rural areas. 

http://blogs.blackberry.com/2012/08/smartphone-acronyms/


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

No doubt the CDMA shutdown will take some time, telus has already started out west (AB,BC).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

cainvest said:


> No doubt the CDMA shutdown will take some time, telus has already started out west (AB,BC).


Yes. Emerging feature rich technologies, affordability to the subscriber (cell phones and monthly plans), and service provider profit margins will determine future investment in these new technologies, and the steady evolution of them.

Nobody would ever think of going back to the dry loop dialup lines any more. Cell phones and availability of good service has driven the evolution. 

I remember back in the late 50s/60s/70s the evolution from party lines to single party lines (1FR), and then the advent of digital telephony (mid 80s)
which opened up a whole new world for telephony and feature rich service.

Cell phone technology emerging, becoming affordable in the 90s, and..... today all the new technology can be packed into a small iphone.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Well so,far an iphone on virgin doesn't,work, but the bb on virgin does. 
Obviously virgin has coverage, it's just the iphone isn't very smart after all. 
I don't get it. 1 step forward town steps back.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

praire_guy said:


> Well so,far an iphone on virgin doesn't,work, but the bb on virgin does.
> Obviously virgin has coverage, it's just the iphone isn't very smart after all.
> I don't get it. 1 step forward town steps back.


I think you need to look at the differences in the receiver signal strength between the iphone and bb, It is also subtle differences in the design and construction
between the two.


> You cannot really tell anything unless you check the signal strength in db, but the fact that the 9790 has a plastic body,
> while the 9900 has this metal bezel is the only reason I can think of, in producing this difference.
> 
> iPhone 5 has metal body except where antennas are located, and it may have something to do with it, particularly in a fringe area.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

This my whole dilemma , do I buy a new bb, switch providers, or buy a booster ?

I'm thinking she'll just "upgrade" to an iphone for day to day, and get a used, working, bb and do the pay as you go for the cottage.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

praire_guy said:


> This my whole dilemma , do I buy a new bb, switch providers, or buy a booster ?
> 
> I'm thinking she'll just "upgrade" to an iphone for day to day, and *get a used, working, bb and do the pay as you go for the cottage.*


That's what I would do, but I'm so frugal with cell phones, (Wind pay-as-you-go) that I probably wouldn't spend the money on a used BB.:biggrin:

BTW..4 still available of these..get on Fleabay and make an offer.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/BlackBerry-B...605?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item19eec0bef5&_uhb=1


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I would go with a booster. Then the cottage problem is solved for good. She can also turn the iPhone into an internet hotspot. That is how our friends on Galiano Island access the internet (for Macs and PCs).


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