# How do I move out of my parents' house?



## QoverQ (Nov 11, 2018)

I'm 30, live in Alberta and financially it doesn't make sense to live on my own and I've been trying to explore the options such as: 

1. Save money for apartment and collect the savings for a down payment? So I could buy the apartment or condo? Should I create a separate bank account for this?
2. Find a really good-paying job <-- this one is extremely hard, as I'm lacking in skills and have a hearing disability. I'm considering to go back to school again for software developing/engineering. I've graduated with BA Diploma and it's not enough.
4. Go back to school for better and more skills to have. Would mean more student debt. 
3. Live on the street? Obviously it's a dangerous path and it's cold outside. 

Well, obviously I want to be a successful man as much as I want to be - the question is how? Do I need investment accounts to make money work for me somehow? Go back to school again? I've been dragging and tagging along with short-term employments such as retail and some construction work. I've never held down a full time job, not professionally anyway.

I've also been looking at learning day trading, stocks, bonds, etc but I just don't know if it's worth it.

I'd appreciate any help. Thank you.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

QoverQ said:


> I'm considering to go back to school again for software developing/engineering.


That's your best option. I suspect if your parents have put up with you this long, they would likely support your getting education that would result in a decent paying job. 



> I've also been looking at learning day trading, stocks, bonds, etc but I just don't know if it's worth it.


Crazy talk.

ltr


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I’d suggest you find a rental unit and move out. Nothing like desperation to motive you. When you want food and shelter, you’ll quickly learn to find a job and do what’s required or you’ll starve and be homeless. 

Ironically, one of the best thing to happen to me financially was getting physically injured and being unable to work for years. I learned very quickly how to earn money without being physically able to. Fear and a family to support was a good motivator.

You’re 30 years old, already have an education, and you’ve done nothing because you’ve had no need to. You’re comfortable. 

Forget about more education, get out of your parents home and get uncomfortable and learn what it takes to live on your own. Take a crap job, work it until it motivates you to find something better, rinse and repeat. Life will drive you along or run you over...even if it runs you over, that’s not the end, it can do it again and again if you let it.

Most people don’t like that, so change their behaviours.

BTW, it never will make financial sense for you to move out on your own, especially when your parents are supporting you to some degree. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Time to grow up and leave the safety of the nest. Forget the financial excuses. Time to increase your financial resources so you can grow up. That means doing what it takes. No one cares if you don’t like it, it’s part of life.

Oh, and for the record, when I graduated there were no jobs either, I started my own company which came out of a crap job I hated. I also moved out to go to school in a different province and worked 3 different jobs, all part time, to pay the rent and go to school. When I was recovering from injury, I took contracts I wouldn’t have normally taken to get some income. You do what is required, success will follow.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> BTW, it never will make financial sense for you to move out on your own, especially when your parents are supporting you to some degree. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it.


+1

It is amazing to me how many people miss this including the parents. They seem to think that sometime in the future, some miracle will happen and their child will move out of the house and live as well or better then they did at home. Miracles do happen, just not frequent enough to put them into your plan.

My advice. Just get out. You're 30 for god sakes.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

*How do I move out of my parents' house? *
I don't know, but it sounds like your time at home hasn't been used productively to save? That's unfortunate. Some, as JAG describes are self-motivated, entrepreneurial, and will flourish in any circumstance. Some need assistance. It's good if parents can provide that assistance/guidance without just ragging on you, but sometimes that doesn't happen. Other times parents (often Mom) are reluctant to let their kids go, to risk failing, to risk getting hurt. 

I'd suggest that you need to ask, "what's the worst that can happen", and you need to set some goals. Share these with your parents if your situation warrants it, so that they are 'on yourside'. Otherwise, just set them yourself:

1. I'd suggest, get the best full time job you can presently - full time with full weekly hours. Check whether your local employment office can assist if you are hesitant. This will mean potentially another crap job, transit to get there, etc. Be reliable, work hard, build rapport so that you have a good personal reference for the time that a better opportunity comes along in the future. Job jumping frequently, especially without references makes getting a better permanent position very hard.
2. Plan to stay at home for maybe another 6-12 months. Save like a demon, every cent you can. Spend some time seeing what shared accommodation might be out there, e.g. as a room-mate sharing an apt.
3. Eventually (perhaps even initially) you want to be where your good work habits will allow you to gain increasing responsibility and pay. Perhaps a cmpany that encourages additional traiing or education.

You mention maybe furthering your education. Possibly, but at 30 you should be picking a path with certain employment. Easy to say, difficult to be assured of, depending what aptitude you have. You can't become a perpetual student, with ineffective diplomas/education and mounting debt.

You mention day trading. Does this mean you already have substantial savings? So maybe you don't need 6-12mos at home still? 
Day trading is a very bad idea. There is no get rich quick recipe - and it is a get poor recipe.

Good luck.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^

what a great post from onlyMO! seriously, it's helpful, chockfull of good suggestions & it doesn't have a single nag

still, my takeaway is that there might be more to the story than the OP has set forth & it's this more-to-the-story that could be interfering with independence or individuation from the parents


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Yup, OMO has expressed some good ideas.

But, like hp, I think much is unspoken, that probably needs to be considered.

QoQ, you say you are 30 and have a BA. So, if you entered university after grade 12, you graduated at about age 22. Have you lived steadily with your parents over the last 8 years? Never any steady employment in all those years? To what extent do you believe your auditory disability plays a role? You might not care to say more, but if it's serious and not overly amenable to amelioration by hearing aids, etc., then it could be limiting. You will then have to explore options where it will be less of a factor.

What is your parents' situation. Retired? Well-to-do? Have they made any overtures about seeking your departure? Have they expressed any view about your situation? Can they provide any contacts/leads in the employment arena? When I was young, I never asked, but had I asked my dad, I think he would have been good resource person, as would have a few other relatives. 

As others have suggested, some of what you say suggests you have some cash tucked away already. You mention day trading and buying a place. Not many youngsters (if a 30-year-old can qualify as such) go from living at home to home ownership in a single bound. I am not even sure if it's wise. Do you have experience with making regular bill payments for utilities, etc. Right now, I would expect you parents to be handling a lot of that routine stuff. But maybe not so routine for you. Renting is a bit of a baby step. You have a regular monthly nut to crack, but foreclosure is not the price of not being able to keep up. If unsure of your ability to make monthly rent - or to enable greater savings - the roommate idea is not a bad one.

I share the view that going back to school is not likely a good solution. Take OMO's advice and land the most solid job you can, with prospects for advancement if you prove your worth. Maybe some schooling in terms of night/part-time courses once you gain some focus. Better yet, employer-sponsored.

Good luck.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

QoverQ: I'm close to your age (a bit older). A few thoughts based on my own experiences.

Absolutely do not day trade in stocks, crypto currencies, etc. These are pitched to desperate people as ways to get rich quick or provide a full income, but it _never_ works out. Don't fall for it, it won't work.

Financially, focus on regular, aggressive savings. Even if it just means adding money into a high interest savings account, just accumulating money is really important. Maybe you'll need to live at home for a few more months and focus on saving as much as you can.

I suggest finding a low cost apartment and moving out. Schedule it for some date, not in the winter. Maybe your parents can help pay a part of your rent, if the costs are prohibitive. The goal should be to pay less rent that you will be earning through employment, so you can continue to save. Having your own place will be great for your life. The process of running your household, managing your bills, finances, is a very important skill to learn. I don't know if you're single, but dating will be much more fun.

Finally, don't be hard on yourself for not having a high paying full time job. In our age group, these are rare. You will run into a lot of older people who think good jobs are plentiful, remembering a different economic era. For us (in our 30s) it's normal to struggle to find permanent employment. All of our working years have been during chronically bad economic times. The severity of that bad economy is often not visible to older people who built their wealth earlier during better economic times, and who are now coasting in high paying positions, or who had easier times post-2008 due to years of experience on their resume.

But yes, you _should_ move out. OnlyMyOpinion has really good tips on jobs. Look for a full weekly hours job, and stick with it for a while.


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## QoverQ (Nov 11, 2018)

Hi, thank you for the helpful responses. Very much appreciated. 

Yes I am seeking full-time employment. I do have some cash saved, I had a summer job on contract this year, and now I'm not working. 

Right now I'm staying in touch with Prospect employment services, and they can put me on a job placement from what I've been told. Regardless, I'm applying to various jobs by myself. The point is, most of my 20s I spent was doing odd jobs and having short term employments and figuring out my career path. I still am to this day, unfortunately. 

Having a hearing disability is tough, it does make you face discrimination and judgment based on it, however I'm trying to show the best version of myself. 

In terms of coding/programming, I do think it would best suit me since it would likely require less of a demanding verbal communication (I do talk fine though, I think), including the use of phone which I shy away from. 

Again, I will look over your responses and talk to my parents about this. I do need to come up with a decent plan. 

p.s. BTW, you're right about dating, james4beach -- I definitely don't want to miss out on it! No girl wants to be with a guy still lives with parents. 

p.p.s. I do believe I need sources of income, both passive and active -- I think that's important to have for everyone. I am still learning about money and developing income. 

Thanks again.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Have you looked into programs like this...

https://employabilities.ab.ca/


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Would move to San Francisco as homeless person make more then working in Canada. The city is going to tax another 300 million plus to go to the homeless


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

"I'm 30, live in Alberta and financially it doesn't make sense to live on my own " "I've also been looking at learning day trading, stocks". Well if you can't afford to live on your own you should stay away from day trading for sure, very dangerous for the average person.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Rest assured the OP is part of a huge trend of adults still living at home or receiving financial aid from their parents.

Temporary, low paid jobs are plentiful but don't provide enough income for people to live on their own. The workplace has changed over the years.

I would advise staying at your parents until you can obtain a full time job and save some money. I would also advise searching government websites for employment.

A BA should be sufficient education for opportunities in some level of government, which is usually unionized, full time and the income is reasonable and steady.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Last night we had dinner with a friend of one of my kids. 18 year old girl, putting herself through school, living on her own. Has three part time jobs, and studies, but seems to be able to make it on her own. All depends on attitude I guess.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> Last night we had dinner with a friend of one of my kids. 18 year old girl, putting herself through school, living on her own. Has three part time jobs, and studies, but seems to be able to make it on her own. All depends on attitude I guess.


That is mainly what it depends on.

As I have mentioned many times on various economic threads is that the prices of the things we use in society, like rent, food, cars, cell phone plans, etc., are priced at a level where the lowest income people in that society cannot really afford it. If one raised minimum wage, the prices would rise and people earning that new minimum wage would still be unable to afford it. That's how a free market works.

So the answer is to make sure that you make more money then the majority of others in that society. The problem here is unlikely to be a lack of opportunity, but more likely a lack of the will to seize the opportunities. They are there, but unfortuneately they have more people in need of those same opportunities then there are opportunities. So, one has to work harder then the next person, work smarter then the next person and perhaps sacrifice more then the next person to get them. This requires motivation and I suspect the ability to live at home is a primary factor in why someone else's motivation seems to be a much higher then yours. At least it has been.

So it is kind of the chicken and egg situation. Move out, get motivated, become successful. Can a person acquire that motivation while living at home. Yes, but one needs to be very focused on the goal. It is too easy for that person to put the goal off a day, a week a month, etc., whereas the person who needs rent by the end of the month, cannot. So a little more difficult but it can be done. It sounds like some of the motivation is there, but time will tell if it is enough.

By the way, always remember that a person cannot live acceptably on minimum wage, no matter what that wage is. So if one is on minimum wage the first priority is to get income above that wage. 2 jobs are OK and 3 will provide more money but one needs to move towards higher income work if they want any hope of a financially acceptable life. If one is on or near minimum wage, a roommate is a must. Not maybe or possibly...a must. Those are two rules one needs to understand fully. The 3rd rule is that your problem is not a lack of jobs or some idiot who was in charge of your last interview, it is the other people going for that job. It always has been and always will be. You don't need to be a hard worker, a dependable worker or even a skilled worker. You need to be a harder worker, a more dependable worker and a higher skilled worker then everyone who interviews for the job you want and everyone you work with when you get it. That is the part they don't teach you in school because the teacher has some dream that everyone in their class can be successful. For you to succeed, someone else will need to fail. That is also how our society works. So just don't volunteer to be the failure.


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

QoverQ said:


> In terms of coding/programming, I do think it would best suit me since it would likely require less of a demanding verbal communication (I do talk fine though, I think), including the use of phone which I shy away from.


In the real world in 2018 most programming jobs require a lot of time in meetings, verbal communication is a huge part of that. Just to warn you.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

CalgaryPotato said:


> In the real world in 2018 most programming jobs require a lot of time in meetings, verbal communication is a huge part of that. Just to warn you.


Not just that. Many of the low level entry "coder" jobs have gone overseas. To get an entry-level job in Canada it must either be a position that can't be out-sourced ( gov't ? Phoenix Payroll System ? ) or the programmer must be a whiz kid who designed computers pre-high school and was top of the class at a school like U of Waterloo.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Just a Guy said:


> Last night we had dinner with a friend of one of my kids. 18 year old girl, putting herself through school, living on her own. Has three part time jobs, and studies, but seems to be able to make it on her own. All depends on attitude I guess.


 Think how much further she would be a head if she was a team player


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

She actually works with disabled children. On a career path already.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> You don't need to be a hard worker, a dependable worker or even a skilled worker. You need to be a harder worker, a more dependable worker and a higher skilled worker then everyone who interviews for the job you want and everyone you work with when you get it. That is the part they don't teach you in school because the teacher has some dream that everyone in their class can be successful. For you to succeed, someone else will need to fail. That is also how our society works. So just don't volunteer to be the failure.


I have friends that own businesses and their biggest complaint is their employees. Show up on time, work hard, have your boss's back, and you will separate yourself from the pack. There will always be a few high achievers that move ahead faster, but even if you're an employee that is lacking in some skills, good employers will usually reward you if you're honest and hard working.


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## QoverQ (Nov 11, 2018)

Prairie Guy said:


> I have friends that own businesses and their biggest complaint is their employees. Show up on time, work hard, have your boss's back, and you will separate yourself from the pack. There will always be a few high achievers that move ahead faster, but even if you're an employee that is lacking in some skills, good employers will usually reward you if you're honest and hard working.


I do consider myself a hard worker and reliable. When I was working this summer, I don't think I skipped a single day of work, ever. I worked 6am to 2:30pm, Monday to Friday, straight 5 days a week. It depends what kind of employer you're working for, I don't think I received much recognition for it. I wasn't given the opportunity to work in the closest location I had asked for.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Userkare said:


> Not just that. Many of the low level entry "coder" jobs have gone overseas. To get an entry-level job in Canada it must either be a position that can't be out-sourced ( gov't ? Phoenix Payroll System ? ) or the programmer must be a whiz kid who designed computers pre-high school and was top of the class at a school like U of Waterloo.


I work in this area, and help hire programmers.

One has to be careful trying to get into "coding" as a profession. There are many different levels of computer work, even for software development. There are diploma and certificate programs that can help you start landing jobs with coding. There are crash courses and boot camps to get you up and running with the basics, web development, etc. And then there are university programs in Computer Science and Electrical & Computer Engineering (and related), that get you a bachelor's degree.

The well paying jobs that we hear about all over the media generally require a bachelor's degree, or greater, in CS/ECE. This takes years of study, plus internship experience before you can land any high paying jobs.

You must be careful about the diplomas, certificates, and boot camp style of coding certifications. These do not necessarily lead to good jobs. Candidates with programming diplomas approach our company all the time, but we don't hire them as they don't have a thorough background in computer science. I know several people taking these kinds of courses, but they tend to land rather low paying jobs on a contract basis. And honestly, many of them are worked way too hard, under not-so-great conditions.

Entry level "coding" is now a commodity skill, and there are tons of people who can do it.

Getting into programming and computer science does not necessarily lead to high incomes or a good lifestyle. This is becoming an overcrowded space, and is one of the most popular disciplines for high school kids entering university. I'm just saying, be careful buying into the idea that getting into "coding" is going to lead to higher incomes.

That being said... computer proficiency is a great skill, and writing software is a great skill to have. In today's economy, it's really helpful to gain these skills. For someone who really enjoys computer software, getting a bachelor's degree in CS or ECE is not a bad move - _but you'd better love the field_. Additionally, I have found that degrees from Canadian universities are taken quite seriously in the world. In the US for example, my coworkers have degrees from Princeton, Caltech, and other top schools. The Canadian university degrees hold up quite well next to them.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

QoverQ said:


> I do consider myself a hard worker and reliable. When I was working this summer, I don't think I skipped a single day of work, ever. I worked 6am to 2:30pm, Monday to Friday, straight 5 days a week. It depends what kind of employer you're working for, I don't think I received much recognition for it. I wasn't given the opportunity to work in the closest location I had asked for.


Then I suspect that others at least "appeared" to be working harder, smarter, more reliably or more profitably then you...or you have the rare occurrence where the employer/owner is very stupid. Rare in that they don't usually last very long, if they even get a business started, being that stupid. Business is too hard to be completely stupid.

As I said, don't just look at yourself. Look at all the others you work with and then look at yourself. Life is a competition. It always has been and always will be. There will never be enough good jobs/opportunities for everyone. I wish there would be, but there won't.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I read this thread with mixed reactions. I know that the workplace today is very different from in the past. More and more jobs are part time rather than full time and that makes it harder to find full time employment in a lot of fields.

But at the same time, I ask myself 'a BA in what?', as I often hear or read about young people saying 'I have a BA but it doesn't help me.' As an example, the daughter of my next door neighbour has a BA in Education. After graduating about 7 years ago, it took her 2 years just to land some part time teaching work. My neighbour was moaning to me about how so many retired teachers were taking these part time jobs instead of leaving them for new teachers. It is only after getting a foot in the door as a part timer, that a young teacher can have a chance to impress those who are going to be making the decisions about who to hire full time. It was 4 years after graduation before she landed a full time teaching position. 

I did a little research of my own online in regards to this specific situation re teaching and guess what I found. There are more teachers than jobs. Huh? Hang on a second here, if I could find that out in less than an hour of research online, couldn't their daughter also have found that out (or the parents could have) just as easily as I did? So here's the scenario as I see it.

Parent, 'so what do you want to do for a living dear daughter?'
Daughter, 'I am inspired to teach young children and contribute to their learning, our country and the world.'
Parent, 'those are admirable goals dear daughter. Is there a need for teachers?'
Daughter, 'I don't know, but it's what I wanna do.'
Parent, 'OK dear daughter, you can be anything you want to be, the world is your oyster.'

Where is their common sense? If I had a daughter or son who was looking at what to do with their education in preparation for entering the working world during the last decade, I would NOT have been agreeing that teaching was a good choice in today's Canada. Or if it was to be considered, it would be in a specialized field such as a Science Teacher. That has far better prospects than a Grade 6 Elementary Teacher. I would be encouraging them to look at what is likely to be in demand when they graduate, not what is unlikely.

I don't know if the OP has mentioned anywhere what the BA s/he has is in but if I were going to take a wild guess, I would say in the 'Arts'. It might as well be in 'Basket Weaving'. How many students take 'Media Studies', thinking they are going to be a presenter on 'E Talk' or some other TV program they like to watch and wish they had that job. Young people need common sense advice when it comes time to choose a field of study or a career path they wish to pursue. A BA doesn't mean anything if it is of no use in the world they enter. A good explanation has been given here of the world of 'coding' which the OP is considering. I see it as yet another, too many people, too few jobs, unless you can really stand out from the crowd somehow. As for 'day trader', that's a head in the clouds dreamer idea if there ever was one.

I have 2 sons. Both to my regret (at the time), chose not to go to University but instead to get a job and start having some money of their own to enjoy spending. However, they had one thing going for them, they are both quite intelligent. Also, they were entering the workforce several decades ago when there were plenty of good full time jobs. Both, by happenstance more than by design, went into the financial industry. Both are now in high level management positions earning in the top 10% overall. So they have done very well without having a BA obviously. I think a lot of young people think a degree means they are guaranteed a well paying job, obviously it does not. To do well you have to have something people will pay you for. In my sons' case, it was intelligence and being able to use that to the advantage of their employers. For someone else, it may be specific knowledge/training/education in a field that is in demand. Either one will work but if you don't have either of them, then guess what. 

There are always going to be all the low paid part time or full time jobs that someone has to be doing and there will always be those people who find themselves doing them. All the wishing in the world will not change that. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/2944692/the-top-eight-careers-of-the-future-in-canada/


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Funny, in reading that post I see an even bigger problem than getting an education in the wrong field...

For me, I don’t really care what subject my kids study. I never, directly, used my education, neither did my wife. I’m not saying our education was useless, there are aspects I use all the time, but we certainly didn’t get jobs anywhere near the fields we studied. 

To me, what I think of important for my kids to learn is how to get money working for you. I’ve taught them about passive income their entire lives. If they establish a solid passive income, they can study whatever they want and take any job they want to do because their income is taken care of. 

I’ve never been a fan of go to school, get a job, work until you die...I’m more of a develop an income, do what you want, enjoy life because it’s short.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

All I tell the kids is that when you plan your future endeavours, one rule that is almost never broken is that "no occupation will be enjoyable or fulfilling if you cannot earn an above average wage".

So that eliminates all occupations that tend to pay in and around minimum wage and all occupations where there are more people able to do that job then there are jobs available. Too much supply and not enough demand. Not good.

That is why the lion's share of people end up doing jobs that are no where near related to what they took in school. It usually happens around age 25, where they figure out what I just said above, and move onto those more fulfilling occupation/endeavours that simply pay better. However, for the life of me, I cannot understand why their parents did not explain this to them. I can understand why the kids did not know it. Everything they have done, up to now, has been for the sake of fun and enjoyment. Why would they think earning a living should be any different. Common parents. Give them a little whack. You know what I said is true, so tell it to your kids so they understand it. It will save you a lot of money, from not having to fund an education that will have no ability to earn a return on that investment...also known as a complete waste of money.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

To tell the truth, I don’t know many people with a paycheque that are “happy” with their jobs. People seem to complain no matter how much they earn. On the flip side, those with passive income tend to be much happier, since they get to do what they want more often than not. They also do things because they want to, so volunteering becomes their “work” sometimes.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> As an example, the daughter of my next door neighbour has a BA in Education. After graduating about 7 years ago, it took her 2 years just to land some part time teaching work. My neighbour was moaning to me about how so many retired teachers were taking these part time jobs instead of leaving them for new teachers. It is only after getting a foot in the door as a part timer, that a young teacher can have a chance to impress those who are going to be making the decisions about who to hire full time. It was 4 years after graduation before she landed a full time teaching position.
> 
> I did a little research of my own online in regards to this specific situation re teaching and guess what I found. There are more teachers than jobs. Huh? Hang on a second here, if I could find that out in less than an hour of research online, couldn't their daughter also have found that out (or the parents could have) just as easily as I did? So here's the scenario as I see it.


According to the Global News article you cite, your neighbour's daughter got it right, but perhaps a bit ahead of her time. The article puts teacher at #1 of the top 8 jobs of the future.



Longtimeago said:


> I don't know if the OP has mentioned anywhere what the BA s/he has is in but if I were going to take a wild guess, I would say in the 'Arts'.


Given that "BA" stands for "Bachelor of Arts", your wild guess shows some perspicacity. 

You say the neighbour has a BA in education. That is a bit of an unusual credential. Most (if not all) Canadian universities' basic teaching degree is a Bachelor of Education.


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## QoverQ (Nov 11, 2018)

Hi,

I do not have Bachelor of Arts -- I'm not able to edit my posts for some reason, however I do believe I mentioned that I have BA Diploma, with Supply Chain Management Major specialization. I'm looking over career-planning in a long term while looking for a short term job (again), I really do think I might have to invest my energy and focus into software engineering, or software development/programming.

Best regards.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

QoverQ said:


> I really do think I might have to invest my energy and focus into software engineering, or software development/programming.


Re-read james4beach post #23 above. He perfectly described the situation as it is today; there's a glut of 'coders' out there. 

I might add that it's not just a job that one simply trains for. To be really good at it, you have to enjoy the unique challenges of making a dumb machine do what you want it to, and then to figure out ( debug ) why it isn't doing what you think you told it to do. If you're impatient, you might find it frustrating.

I would suggest that before you start spending big $$$ on formal education, you might want to buy a cheap small computer ( Raspberry Pi - under $100 https://www.buyapi.ca/product/raspberry-pi-3-b-starter-kit/ ) and develop some simple applications for it; there are all kinds of tutorials and sample programs on the website https://www.raspberrypi.org/. They even offer free on-line training courses.

Also possible is to download a free development environment for Android or IOS and write apps for a smartphone; that's a bit more complicated, though.

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Have you ever considered a trade? A semi-skilled trade like roofing may not pay much at first if you're working for a roofing company, but it would provide you with a skill that can be used to generate significant side income.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Back in the day, I complete a Master in Process Engineering courtesy of a Ford Foundation Fellowship. As luck would have it my thesis supervisor went to Berkeley and offered my a "full ride" PhD. But he suggested waiting until September (I matriculated in December), so I shopped for employment for 9 months pending completion of said PhD. Every firm said I was very employable but they would not hire me with a PhD. So the idea of shopping the market is not new. This is a small snippet of a much longer story but not relevant to this thread.


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## QoverQ (Nov 11, 2018)

Ok so if I find a full-time job I hope I'll be able to move out and live my own life instead of living like a slave under my parents. 

My best bet is probably to invest in a condo, so I end up owning something (home equity?) long-term instead of pissing away rent and end up owning nothing.

In terms of trades, yes I've considered it many times. I do believe there's agency that is offering free trades training.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I’d avoid buying today, I see the prices starting to fall. 

As for being a slave, I’d think you should reconsider that attitude. Once you move out, your attitude will probably change.


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## WGZ (Feb 3, 2017)

26 & living at my (single) parent's. I've worked a steady full time mundane manual labor job since June 2013 pulling a lot of extra shifts, a lot of it was just to get out of the house. I also had my 2nd home at the gym.

Since I don't have a business, I figure why not run my life like a business, but mostly to do with saving the crap out of money, now more than ever. NO eating out, cheap but good clothes - even thrift/2nd hand, no junk food, only drink water, basic bodybuilder foods e.g. chicken, rice, broccoli - I can eat this at 2.50 per meal buying from Costco, fill up at Costco on the way to work saves me $25 per month as well - which is $300 per year. Slimming bills down by reducing bills & using coupons, sales, discounts whenever possible.

The only thing I splurge on is supplements, but only because I have a hook up for that and get half or more off. And maybe Rock Auto parts for vehicle maintenance which I do all the basic things myself as Canadians get hosed on that, along with everything else (big telecoms, insurance, vehicle parts & maintenance).

Also avoid/keep in mind: bi-weekly payments (biggest scam ever), recurring parasitic credit card charges, interest, inflation, poor CAD, getting hosed in general, watch out for BS fees - I caught Bell twice & $90 back in pocket, I'm also fairly distrustful of companies/memberships requiring a credit card on file. Had an Uber account get hacked, Visa quickly caught it and froze the account. $1000 in racked up charges in 3 totally different parts of the globe. Recently met a lot of resistance from a couple companies when I indicate my desire to discontinue using their service & cancel. Honestly getting sick of all the crooked crap, and a lot of people have been conditioned to just "take it". Car dealerships need to go away, in favor of a boutique/direct sales model that manufacturers such as Volvo, Tesla, Lynk & Co, Genesis, etc. are implementing.

I believe moving out will force me to take these things, learn/grow more, and force me to find more income as well. Like has been said. There's always more I could be doing...I know that.


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## OrganicRain (Nov 27, 2016)

Move out. I moved out at 16, and made it work. If anything it made me more motivated to the point I can now retire if I wanted to at age 45.

Age 30 living with parents is creating dependency. Get out, live frugally, llve lean. Live off student loans if you have to. The point being, you will be much more motivated to make a better life for yourself vs depend on the safety net of your parents. You'll survive. Time to put big boys pants on.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

QoverQ said:


> My best bet is probably to invest in a condo, so I end up owning something (home equity?) long-term instead of pissing away rent and end up owning nothing.


It costs $XX per month for accommodations regardless of whether you rent or own, so it's not always pissing away money if you can live comfortably in a low cost rental or don't have the desire or skillset to handle regular maintenance and DIY projects. Compare $1000 monthly rent to a $1000 mortgage with $300 in property taxes and a $400 condo fee. That $700 a month is $8,400 a year or $84,000 in 10 years assuming 0% growth if invested.


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## s1231 (Jan 1, 2017)

Conscious vs Unconscious will create a big differences. 

Make a solid good plan first before moving out.
Perhaps good to have the options that could be utilize well as max.

Focus on increasing the saving each month, 
Research more the rental market or 
buying cheap house (careful---swamp or flood & fire zone etc.), 
Simulate the realistic monthly living cost of foods & bills, 
See the economies driving, seasons, choose the good timing etc.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

If moving out of parents house is going to be living beyond means would not move out. Real Estate is priced way to high to buy now. May as well get the best price on rent if that is with your parents stick with it.

Going to school is a complete waist of time & money for most. The economy will be soon going into a depression. The time to make money is now while you can have a job. If your going to school you can not be working when your wasting time in school. By the time your finished school the economy will be to bad to get a job.

Trading bad idea especially since @ some point in the near future will be going into a deflationary crash. 

Do the complete opposite of everyone else work & save instead of work & debt or work & invest. Now is not the time to invest unless you are the less then 1% category that can make money in bear markets. The market might go higher for a few more years though when it turns it will be devastating for most.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Come on people, he’s 30 years old...

If he hasn’t found a reason to move out yet, but has plenty of excuses as to why it’s not the right time, nothing is going to change any time soon. 

It will never be a good financial reason to move out, he won’t be better educated any time soon, no job is going to drop into his lap...it’s too comfortable to change, it’s easy when food appears in the fridge, clothes are washed and folded, costs are paid...

The only way he’ll change is to get out of the house and change. Forget saving, forget getting a plan, he’s had at least 10-12 years to do that and hasn’t bothered...at what point do you finally pull the trigger? There will always be reasons not to, get over them.

This is how they wind up at home at 40, then 45, then...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The failure of young adults moving out on their own is an example of a changing economy.

North American culture enjoyed the luxury of indulging everyone to survive on their own, but that appears to be changing.

We are moving towards a more European culture where generations of families live together and have for a long time.

Many of the biggest homes in our city are owned by generations of people from other countries.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Or, we’re moving to a society which finds it easier to not put in any effort to succeed. Easier to blame the rich for success and hold out your hand for more isn’t it Sags than actually trying to make your own money. 

More UBI, more welfare, more social programs, so I can be taken care of as I live in the basement and have mom make me breakfast in bed everyday. Though she doesn’t really iron my clothes perfectly all the time...and some of her food choices leave a bit to be desired. Hopefully they die soon and leave me with a big insurance policy so I can hire a maid to take care of me in my later years...

The last 20 years we’ve been in a bull economy, hasn’t been a real excuse to not succeed if one wanted to. The next 20 may be more interesting, but those who can, will succeed if they want to.

Remember, this guy was living in Alberta during the time when companies were going rough drive through restaurants and hiring the people working the till for their company...”will there be fries with that?”, “umm, no but how would you like to come work for us at a significant raise”, “no thanks, I’m better off living in the basement.”


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Failure to launch. Assuming the 'rocket' should function ok, I look at the parents.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

An argument could be made that more social programs are needed due to the fact less families are sticking together weather it to be to reduce housing costs or to run a family business. Everyone needs to pull their weight for the system to work. Those that are not pulling their weight if they are kicked out on the street into a life or death situation the fear of death will often result in finding a way to make it work. If the OP lived on the street so that their life was threatened fear would be a great motivator. Once motivated to the easiest way to get ahead is reduce living costs which would be to fairly share the living costs so one person is not paying. Usually family get along the best so it is most practical for the family to stick together. It is just like running a business try to reduce costs.


It would probably be best if elderly parents to old to work were the ones renting out the basements instead of the kids that are to lazy to work.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Why is it considered success to boot out the kids ? Do parents really want to live in a big home by themselves ?

I can understand the angst if the kid is a problem, but if they help out and pay their own costs...........where is the harm ?

People harp on their kids to leave and then harp later when the kids never visit.


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## QoverQ (Nov 11, 2018)

By the way, please don't think that I'm 'fat and lazy' because I'm not and never was. I do go to gym 5 times a week (changing to 6 times now). I am currently applying for full-time jobs and trying my best despite my hearing loss. 

Most of my 20s I spent was trying to get the education and working different short-term jobs, saving money for tuition and costs I spent and it's never enough especially in today's standards and age. I also did suffer the depression for a while as well.

The point is, how can I earn a decent living and show my value? That's why I've been considering to go back to school again to learn software development/engineering even if it means adding more student debt.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There are some trades where you could find employment without more education but they can be tough work.....fence installation, concrete, roofing etc.

I would rather suggest you take a program that will lead to a good job in the future. There is a shortage of marine mechanics for example. I believe Georgian College offers the program.

The son of a friend gained a University education and then went back to community college to learn to fix robotics. He ended up working for a German company selling robotics to auto manufacturers in Canada and the US. I believe George Brown community school offers the program.

The health care industry is really short of employees. Personal support workers, nurses are in big demand in nursing and retirement homes.

Public service work offers decent wages and good benefits. Perhaps as a front line worker at the WSIB, CRA, EI or some other agency.

A student loan, share a place with another student, part time job, and you will be on your own.

There is also a training school in Northern Ontario for heavy equipment operator, crane operator etc...........if that kind of work would suit you.

Other possibilities are utility line locator..........the people who mark out where hydro and water lines are located. Call the different companies.

Most transport companies are looking for drivers and there are private schools that offer training.

You have enough education for many jobs.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I don’t know many people who define their worth by a job. Your worth comes from your effort. If you put the same effort into getting a job as you do going to the gym (something that takes away from time spent finding a job for example), you’d probably be employed by now. 

From your postings, you don’t exactly come across as a “go getter”, a person who gets things done, self motivated, creative...you know the things which would get you noticed at work and promoted. You can tell yourself you are, but your actions say differently. 

There are jobs everywhere, perhaps they just “aren’t what you’re looking for”. You want the Cadillac, when the Yugo will actually move you around. Sometimes you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. You’ve had 10-12 years that you’ve blown puttering around.

Yes, I understand disabilities and depression, I’ve been a chronic pain suffferer for decades, and borderline depressed just as long. I just don’t give into it. It’s not always easy, but it can be done. 

I know very few people working in what they were trained for, but they are working...may not be the best job, but they are working...they may not like the job, but they are working and looking for something better. 

You can go back and hide in school, complain there are no jobs (which is more lying to yourself), make up any excuse you want...the only person who can fix any of this for you is...

YOU.


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