# Just Energy JE.TO



## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Any idea where the 6% drop came from today. 

I can't seem to see naything in the news/

Thanks


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## Canuck (Mar 13, 2012)

no idea...weird. Huge volume as well


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## Betzy (Feb 7, 2011)

Canuck said:


> no idea...weird. Huge volume as well


Dividend was yesterday, so likely the normal sell off from the ones looking for it only...


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

It dropped as much as 15% - perhaps some insider news, or maybe ex-dividend selling triggered stop losses, which triggered more stop losses. Good time to buy if you like the company (I don't particularly)


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Just seen this press release from them 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ju...sponse-to-unusual-trading-activity-2012-07-17


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## alexei (Jul 2, 2012)

Would you be able to elaborate please on why you don't like this stock?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Oh boy, the bottom seems to be falling out of this one now.
Finally announced a dividend cut.
Stock down 14% this morning, down nearly 50% since the highs last summer.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

hmm... with 0.07 divi now payout ratio is below 100%


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## al42 (Mar 5, 2011)

blin10 said:


> hmm... with 0.07 divi now payout ratio is below 100%


I don't think so...
Dividends were $0.31 per share in the quarter, unchanged from those paid a year earlier. Payout ratio on Adjusted EBITDA increased to 62%, up from 50% a year ago. The Company's dividend obligations will exceed Funds from Operations for the year.

Payout ratio remains an area of focus. As highlighted in the second quarter report, both Adjusted EBITDA and Funds from Operations ("FFO") were trending below forecast and that trend remains. Payout on Adjusted EBITDA is 65% over the past 12 months, versus 60% a year earlier. Payout ratio on FFO is 172% for the same period up from 96%. It is clear that the payout ratio on FFO will remain well above 100% for the fiscal year and, in all likelihood, the year to come based on current forecasts and dividend levels.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

So very glad I got out of this one. Although if you feel like a gamble you may be able to make some money on it. 

It actually has stopped me buying some of the Canadian Dividend ETF's as they hold this within the portfolio.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Sold this last July @ 11 and today is the first day I have looked at it again just to see what has happened. Glad I got out when I did.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Payout ratio was too high. This was inevitable, and it's a good thing for the sector to have more sustainable distributions.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

As with any company, net earnings over the long run will tell the story - no company maintains dividends above net earnings forever. The more that Adjusted EBITBA or Cash Flow is used to justify dividends, the more concerned you should be.


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

I looked at this one for a while as well because of the big div.. Pay out over 100% is crazy. 

What I don't understand is why not get all the pain over with in one shot.. Why not drop the div payout even further below 100% PO? The share price only gets nailed once and your finances are in much better shape going forward.. go figure.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Another huge drop today.
Near 52 week lows today.
Approaching the 2008 - 2009 lows soon.
Look out below, for those still holding.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

I bought this a couple years ago without doing much research. I thought it was a legit utility. Anyway, someone on here talked me out of the stock and I sold a couple days later for a $50 profit. Those dollars ended up in Fortis which ended up in Scotiabank. Needless to say I'm very grateful to that person. It may have been you, Harold, I can't remember.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

From a technical analysis standpoint, if this week closes below 7.75 (on TSX) that's very bad news because it's a lower low. That would show a pattern of lower lows going back to 2010 and very bearish. Even more bearish when you consider the sector and broad market have been very strong.

We already discussed the fundamentals which is that this thing simply pays out far too much in dividends. My guess is the stock will keep getting hammered as the yield-chasers dump it. This is a good illustration of the folly of yield chasing. If the only reason you own an equity is for the abnormally high payout, once the payout drops everyone wants to dump it.

I own some JE inside ZUT. I intend to buy more ZUT when valuations get lower... for now I just wait.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

By the way, I hope investors who directly buy JE stock are reading the financial reports & statements (you need to read the financial statements of individual stocks you own). Here is an excerpt from the Q3 report (up to Dec 31, 2012) dated February 7, 2013. The CEO writes:

_Dividends were $0.31 per share in the quarter, unchanged from those paid a year earlier. Payout ratio on Adjusted EBITDA increased to 
62%, up from 50% a year ago. The Company’s dividend obligations will exceed Funds from Operations for the year.

Payout ratio remains an area of concern. As highlighted in the second quarter report, both Adjusted EBITDA and Funds from Operations 
(“FFO”) were trending below forecast and that trend remains. Payout on Adjusted EBITDA is 65% over the past 12 months versus 60% a 
year earlier. Payout ratio on FFO is 172% for the same period, up from 96%. It is clear that the payout ratio on FFO will remain well above 
100% for the fiscal year – primarily driven by accelerated sales growth – and, in all likelihood, for the year to come, based on current sales 
forecasts and dividend levels. 
. . .
Following its regularly scheduled February meeting, the Board of Just Energy has implemented a *new dividend policy effective the April 30, 
2013	dividend payment, which calls for a monthly dividend of $0.07 per share. That is an annualized 0.84 versus the current $1.24 per
share. This level of dividends should reduce the FFO payout ratio to less than 100% for fiscal 2014 and reduce the ratio to a target range 
between 60% and 65% going forward.* Payout ratio on FFO for the last 12 months is 172%. Management is committed to returning this 
ratio below 100%.

The new level of dividend was selected with the understanding that many Just Energy shareholders rely on their dividends for income. At 
current prices, the new payout level will leave Just Energy with an annual yield of approximately 8.4%, among the highest yields on either 
the TSX or the NYSE. Management targets a future FFO payout ratio in the 60% to 65% range. By creating a more stable financial platform 
and balance sheet, Just Energy expects to generate continued growth and income for its shareholders.
_


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Argonaut said:


> I bought this a couple years ago without doing much research. I thought it was a legit utility. Anyway, someone on here talked me out of the stock and I sold a couple days later for a $50 profit. Those dollars ended up in Fortis which ended up in Scotiabank. Needless to say I'm very grateful to that person. It may have been you, Harold, I can't remember.


Well played..

Maybe it was from the 2011 JE thread, where we all bashed it 2 years ago. Or maybe it was from this 2012 thread where we all regurgitated the same points a few months later.

Hey it's now 2013 and right on cue we have a new Just Energy thread?!


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

@mode: Nope, this was in April 2011 before everyone was bearish on it. It had just converted to a corporation and the price was holding up well. I think it was in the "what are you buying?" thread which is surely impossible to navigate through.

PS: Where is your coat of arms avatar?


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

A positive outlook if you believe this 



> "Based on future growth and a future annual $0.84 dividend commencing with the monthly payment on April 30, 2013, we believe that our share price is and may remain undervalued. We believe Just Energy will be able to continue to show growth during the foreseeable future and continue to believe our growth will meet or exceed our corporate objectives" stated Chief Executive Officer Ken Hartwick. "Because of the financial performance of the business and the reduced dividend, we will generate sufficient funds both to support future growth, to repay our debt as it matures improving our balance sheet and utilize remaining funds to institute a share buy back program."


http://www.marketwire.com/press-rel...e-issuer-bid-common-shares-tsx-je-1755906.htm


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> From a technical analysis standpoint, if this week closes below 7.75 (on TSX) that's very bad news because it's a lower low. That would show a pattern of lower lows going back to 2010 and very bearish.


Unfortunately this has happened, close today (Friday February 15) at $7.56. It will inevitably bounce at some point, but this is a pretty bad looking long-term chart.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

damn it's getting killed...


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

blin10 said:


> damn it's getting killed...


...and so satifying to see it happen after selling it at $11 last summer.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

blin10 said:


> damn it's getting killed...


12% yield even with the reduced dividend. 

Personally I don't have the stomach for it after making a lucky escape from it previously. 

It brings home the point Andrewf makes about the total return of a stock and not just going in looking at the yield. 
It also proved the yield is of little use when the price plummets like this. :cower::hopelessness:


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

TOI is always the most important.. 

Take my comments with a grain of salt because I don't follow it closely(really not at all other then to watch the price). However looking from a distance *IF* the fundamentals are not terrible, it could be a small position value target. Question is how low will it go.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

The problem is that their financials aren't straightforward. And it's not like we're in a market crash where companies all over the place are cutting dividends. They _seem_ to be profitable and _seem_ to have a more reasonable payout, but in my opinion it's better to be safe when it's your own money on the line. (Rule #1 - never lose money). The raising of a dividend should be a key to buy, not a cut.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Another bad day again for this one. 

Down 7.6% so far today.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

16x9 newsmagazine TV segment - Just Energy

“Just Energy” is a multi-billion dollar company with an army of salespeople – signing people up for electricity and gas contracts – right at their door. But as 16×9 found out – the company is also highly controversial- with suspect sales tactics, suspect employees, and a founder who appears to have misled investors about her past.


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

This is one of the shadiest company's around. I worked for them for two years and I made a killing, but the contracts they offer are almost always poor value.
We had a line that we were told to say if anyone ever asked us if the contracts would help them save money. The reply, every agreement ever signed has saved money. However the way this was measured was that there was at least one month out of the five year contract where the variable rate was higher than the locked in rate.
So they may have payed less money for gas some months but over the long term, they almost always did not do better than they would have with a variable rate.

This company would have done very well if it was managed better, and if they sales people were less shady.


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## GOB (Feb 15, 2011)

I had these guys come to my door a few years ago. The fixed prices they offered were so much than the variable that it was laughable. But they made it sound like a great deal, and I'm sure they manage to fool a lot of people, especially students from out of town. You'd never make your money back unless there was some sort of catastrophic event that sent energy price up 50%. Very, very shady and I'd never invest in a company like this.


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

Exactly!

Those sales people (which I once was) make crazy commission. In Alberta a dual fuel contact (Gas and Electricity) its $120 in commission for the average house. If you manage to get them to take the green energy options the commission can be as high as $220.
While that is good money that only takes about 20 min to make a deal, not a lot of people bite, but I could generally close 3 a day. 

There was also a crazy bonus structure.
10 deals + $200
15 deals + $300
20 deals + $400
25 deals + $600
30 deals + $750
35 deals + $1000

That may seen like a lot of deals, but each house generally can be signed up for both gas and elec. So each contract is generally 2 deals. So to make 1000 a week I would only need to make 5 deals, with a few people signing op for the green energy option.

So with this kind of money available it is easy to see why the sales people can be as aggressive and untruthful as they can be.

So really if anyone wants to make money off JE, I would recommend working there, not investing in it.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Investing in this company is lower than investing in tobacco, liquor and weapons manufacturers.
I'm sure a lot of people have worked jobs when they were young that they're not proud of, but this one won't be making any family members proud. Stripping would be better.


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