# 3D Printers



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Considering the potential applications I was wondering if anyone had picked up any shares of any of these companies:

http://www.3dprinterstocks.com/a-list-of-3d-printing-companies/


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I think the power that be already know a good chunk of manufacturing and merchandise is going to be eventually done right in your own home, at least on more than 50% of goods we buy. Between online retailing and 3D printing, the retail outlet of the future may be in trouble.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Interesting how you interpreted it from a consumer standpoint. 

Working in healthcare, I was considering more of the health related ramifications. In my office alone we have been using CAD to fabricate dental crowns and fillings for 8 years or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtwgy57CFeo 

I found it also interesting as ONVO recently began trading. The medical field could really benefit from something like this having custom made prosthesis during surgeries.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

As usual, I think people are overestimating the short run effects and underestimating the long term effects. I agree that 3D printing will probably make a small impact outside of medicine or other areas where a high degree of customization provides a lot of value. But for the majority of good people buy, 3D printers can't yet match the price/performance levels of traditional manufacturing. I also kind of doubt that people will have 3D printers in their home. It would be a fantastic waste of resources, given it would be sitting idle most of the time. More likely you'd have a local shop where you could request items to be printed, then go and pick them up when they are ready after a few hours.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

tygrus said:


> I think the power that be already know a good chunk of manufacturing and merchandise is going to be eventually done right in your own home, at least on more than 50% of goods we buy. Between online retailing and 3D printing, the retail outlet of the future may be in trouble.




I don't see this technology doing anything to the retail sector other than allowing the likes of Amazon and Walmart to implement a premium "custom designed" service appealing to techies and hipsters. 

There will be no in-home 3d printers or mom and pop 3d shops. Once (if) it becomes a viable means of manufacturing, Amazon will already have a million printers and provide the service for cheaper and faster than any small timer every could.

Just like no one is willing to pay an extra 30c to buy normal products from a local shop over Walmart, no one will be willing to buy a 3d printer or go to a 3d print shop when Walmart will 3d print it for them, for less.

This technology will not hurt the retail sector at all, imo.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I think if a person looks back through history, any technology that offsets large labour requirements is quickly adopted and mass produced. I think 3D printing will be no different as soon as its costs and scalability are refined.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I also kind of doubt that people will have 3D printers in their home. It would be a fantastic waste of resources, given it would be sitting idle most of the time.


Who knows, nobody uses their lawn mower or a microwave or other appliances 24/7 but most every household wants to have one of each for the sake of convenience. Fantastic waste of resources is just another name for consumerism.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

peterk said:


> This technology will not hurt the retail sector at all, imo.


Inkjet printers and digital comeras took down the photo industry. 3D printers and 3D scanners could take down a big chunk of retailing. Think about all the plastic crap you buy. Real products will still need conventional retailing, like clothes, food, consumer staples, but lots could be done at home too.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

How many people print photos on their injet printer though? Probably 90% use Facebook, 8% print at the grocery store or costco, and 2% on their home printer.

All that plastic crap is insanely cheap already. And even if the 3D tech can make it cheaper, then the big retailers will adopt 3d printing and sell that stuff even cheaper yet.

Obviously this technology could have huge impacts at the manufacturing end in Asia, where all this stuff is made so cheaply in the first place, I just don't think it will impact the end consumer. 

Now, of course I'm assuming that the limit of this technology is manufacturing plastic things with no moving parts and that it takes some non-insignificant amount of time to do so.

If I could go down to futureshop and buy myself a star trek replicator for $1000 that would be a different story...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Who knows, nobody uses their lawn mower or a microwave or other appliances 24/7 but most every household wants to have one of each for the sake of convenience. Fantastic waste of resources is just another name for consumerism.


A highly capable 3D printer (something that mixed many materials, can print electronics, batteries, etc. is likely to be a fair bit costlier than the average consumer is willing to have in their home. Also, larger objects require larger printers, which require more real estate in the home. There's also the small matter of having feedstock (of the dozens of potential materials consumer goods might be made out of). I just don't see it as being realistic. Basic 3D printers that make small objects and utilize one or a few materials perhaps, but they wouldn't be terribly useful. Hobbyists like playing with them.

Really, the best 3D printer is one where you click the print button and have it show up after some short period of time. Whether the printing occurs in the home or not is of limited utility, when it might be done better cheaper by an amazon type outfit and delivered to your door (perhaps by the coming automated delivery robots). You don't even have to make sure the printer has feedstock...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Besides those 2 fools known as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, most people (such as the IBM execs) thought nobody would really want a bulky expensive noisy computer in their home to do math and type on. They could only think of the present use of computers at that time. Only a few short years ago, most CMF members cried nobody really needs these glorified iPhones or tablets that do nothing they couldn't already do on their PCs or cell phone. They could only think of the present uses of PCs and phones at that time. At first 3D printing will be a novelty for hobbyists, but the price and size will come down more and more. I'm still dumbfounded by the size of an iPhone and I don't think we're scratched the surface of their potential uses, like PCs in the 90's we are still on dial up. People are only thinking about present consumer goods and retail..... 3D printing could be a game changer. As a hobby mechanic I see massive potential and dollar signs, I see industries comlpetely changing


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._printer_gun_raises_disturbing_questions.html

This technology will return our civilization to cowboy wild west, everyone needs a weapon to simply survive. Sad... it may even lead to world war 3 if people start to shoot each other internationally.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree that the effects these printers will have on printer companies will be negligible. 

I am far more excited about the potential capabilities for medicine: http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...inting-body-parts-will-revolutionize-medicine

Organovo is printing human cells. Crazy.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

mode, for home 3D printers to take off, there has to be no cost or quality penalty to getting products printed at home vs printed in 'the cloud' (now that the term is totally cliche) and delivered to your door. The economics of highly specialized pooled equipment being used on demand beats everyone owning their own and utilizing a small fraction of the time. The only trouble is friction in sharing, which is a non-issue for printed goods (UPS delivers to your door next day), vs lawnmowers (someone with a trailer has to drop it off, at great expense, so you can use it at the same time everyone else does--Saturday morning). You mention computing, but a vast proportion of computing still occurs as a pooled resource. We could never have google-level capabilities as consumers if we all had to buy 'Google units' that sat in our basement to serve all our requests for info, storage etc. Google can do amazing things with computing because they can get so much productivity out of their hardware and network connections.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MoreMiles said:


> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._printer_gun_raises_disturbing_questions.html
> 
> This technology will return our civilization to cowboy wild west, everyone needs a weapon to simply survive. Sad... it may even lead to world war 3 if people start to shoot each other internationally.


This in itself is irrelevant. A printed gun that is almost totally useless heralds the end of society in the country where you can get military grade hardware at Walmart?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

tygrus said:


> Inkjet printers and digital comeras took down the photo industry. 3D printers and 3D scanners could take down a big chunk of retailing. Think about all the plastic crap you buy. Real products will still need conventional retailing, like clothes, food, consumer staples, but lots could be done at home too.


I print my photos at Costco, it's cheaper than using my inkjet.

3D printers just spit out a plastic blob, not finished products. I use various 3D printing technologies to make prototypes, but they're expensive, and often not really usable.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> The only trouble is friction in sharing, which is a non-issue for printed goods (UPS delivers to your door next day)


You can access Google computing instantly from just about anywhere at anytime though. When something has to be physically delivered that might sound fast enough for a printed soup ladle in Toronto... Something more important or more remote in most of Canada, in many countries, or in a combat zone, or on Mars might be another story. There are many industries that could save money by not having to stock or transport so many things they could just print... They can already print human tissue? Ya this technology will be refined much more in medical, military, space and other industries and trickle into to businesses and consumers. It's in its infancy. There is potential in printing raw materials into whatever wherever and whenever you want. I'd wager we can't fully grasp all the applications yet.

I agree it would be more economic for consumers to print "in the cloud" but consumerism is anti-economical by definition. It would defeat most of the purpose (printing whatever, whenever and wherever) and there's a profitable market to exploit. Don't underestimate consumerist marketing to convince everyone they need a 3D printer in their home. Not everyone needs a smart phone or a diamond ring either, but once the Jones's have one everyone would need one without much rationale. Off topic but UPS deliveries never end up delivered to me the next day.. It always turns into a week long affair of missed notes, telephone tag, excuses and driving to some depot before it gets returned. UPS leaves a lot to be desired.. there's a simple market someone could really take over in NA


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Off topic but UPS deliveries never end up delivered to me the next day.. It always turns into a week long affair of missed notes, telephone tag, excuses and driving to some depot before it gets returned. UPS leaves a lot to be desired.. there's a simple market someone could really take over in NA


The driver matters.
In my old city Purolator was unbelievably good, UPS was okay, Canada Post was in between.
Here the Canada Post guy is amazing, the UPS guy is outstanding, and the Purolator girl is f*&*(&ing horrible and a liar. She actually dropped off 1 of 2 packages for our house, we signed for them, marked one delivered, and marked the other with the No Answer code. We often get that, even if someone is home.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> I print my photos at Costco, it's cheaper than using my inkjet.
> 
> 3D printers just spit out a plastic blob, not finished products. I use various 3D printing technologies to make prototypes, but they're expensive, and often not really usable.


Theoretically, 3D printers will be able to make very sophisticated objects, even electronics and batteries, but that will be when the technology is mature. In the mean time the consumer grade ones are glorified hot glue guns. The best 3D printers will be used in manufacturing or be available on demand. The leading edge of the technology is going to be expensive for a while.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

A vision of the future: 3D printed jumbo jets (TED Talks)


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## emperor (Jul 24, 2011)

3d printing in a industrial setting will be huge. I work at refinerys and there is tons of little parts you need to special order, these parts are expensive and you can lose production while waiting for them. Being able to print every little do-dad needed in a plant instead of ordering and storing them is HUGE money.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I've held DDD for a while- I started a thread about it last year. I really feel that nobody can see the possible implications of this technology, just as the eventual uses of any new technology can never be foreseen. Could be absolutely amazing.

'Earl Grey, hot!'


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Theoretically, 3D printers will be able to make very sophisticated objects, even electronics and batteries, but that will be when the technology is mature. In the mean time the consumer grade ones are glorified hot glue guns. The best 3D printers will be used in manufacturing or be available on demand. The leading edge of the technology is going to be expensive for a while.


Those technologies will be a LONG way out. I can't emphasize how long that is.

Various chemicals, orientations or molecules, grain and alignment characteristics and so on.
Today they have trouble getting a nice surface finish without secondary operations. Making non trivial real devices is really far away.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> Those technologies will be a LONG way out. I can't emphasize how long that is.
> 
> Various chemicals, orientations or molecules, grain and alignment characteristics and so on.
> Today they have trouble getting a nice surface finish without secondary operations. Making non trivial real devices is really far away.


Sure- but some applications could be right around the corner; I read a lot on this topic. Here's just one article:

http://www.popsci.com/science/artic...inting-body-parts-will-revolutionize-medicine


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

dotnet_nerd said:


> That link contains malware according to Chrome


Hmmm- sorry, I just copied it. I saw no malware when I opened it in Safari.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

BTW- just read this article about forthcoming 'smart rings'. Note that the city of Boston is using 3D printers to customize them if desired. Again- who knows where an idea/invention will lead in the field of technology?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/ring-functions-smart-card-public-transit-171041384.html


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

In related news, a new website called 3dhubs.com just launched, which is to allow owners of 3d printers to print stuff for a fee, for those who don't own one. Pretty cool.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I have a friend who's using a home 3-D printer to make hard-plastic flutes, and they're pretty good.

One of the best proposed uses I've seen is for parts: a part in your fridge, car, stereo, etc. breaks and instead of ordering a replacement part you just type in the product number, print out the part and replace it yourself. Break a dish or cup and print an exact replacement. I agree that not everyone will have these things in their homes, but I could see a market for corner-store 3-D printers for these small household objects and replacement parts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

brad said:


> One of the best proposed uses I've seen is for parts: a part in your fridge, car, stereo, etc. breaks and instead of ordering a replacement part you just type in the product number, print out the part and replace it yourself. Break a dish or cup and print an exact replacement. I agree that not everyone will have these things in their homes, but I could see a market for corner-store 3-D printers for these small household objects and replacement parts.



i can't tell you how chilly this makes me feel. People are going to wind up drowning in cheap plastic home-printed parts made from the wrong (cheap) polymers & these parts/dishes/flotsam/jetsam will themselves fail pronto & the volume of used plastic waste going to landfill will ... oh (shudder) i can't even bring myself to write the words ... the environmental spectre is so gruesome ...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It doesn't have to be that way, hp. 3D printing is not limited to plastic. But your point about not creating an exact replica or a part (in terms of material) is a good one. This is why I think home 3D printing won't really take off. If you print your part in the cloud and have it delivered to you, it can be made to the exact manufacturer specification. This means there will be a point where replacement parts are not comically expensive. The high cost is driven by the need to make large runs of parts and warehouse them (possibly for years), and warehouse the dies used to make the part in the event of more are required. Multiplied by millions or billions or parts, the costs begin to spiral. Take away the need to warehouse or transport large distances, and replacement parts become quite feasible. This may actually increase the incentive to purchase goods that are more durable (ie, worth fixing).


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

andrewf said:


> IThis may actually increase the incentive to purchase goods that are more durable (ie, worth fixing).


Agreed, and the reduced environmental (and economic) impact of parts made on demand instead of made on spec and stockpiled should be pretty significant.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

andrewf said:


> 3D printing is not limited to plastic


The unit we have in our dental office mills restorations out of porcelain. Technically, as scientists have already figured out how to grow human tooth enamel, they are currently able to mill out restorations of actual human enamel. What better to replace damaged tooth structure, than with new tooth structure. The ethical conundrum is a bigger hurdle than the technological.

As they have already figured out how to grow human tissue cells, it gets interesting when you can get prostate cancer, and fabricate a new one to replace it. 

But then we would all need to save more money for retirement as we would be living longer. :biggrin:


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> i can't tell you how chilly this makes me feel. People are going to wind up drowning in cheap plastic home-printed parts made from the wrong (cheap) polymers & these parts/dishes/flotsam/jetsam will themselves fail pronto & the volume of used plastic waste going to landfill will ... oh (shudder) i can't even bring myself to write the words ... the environmental spectre is so gruesome ...


Ignorant fear-mongering. Do some research into what materials are currently being used and what (oh, shudder) may be forthcoming before posting such drivel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_printing


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

new 3D printed toothbrush

http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shi...othbrush-cleans-teeth-just-six-192310415.html


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Another application:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/3d-printed-rocket-engine-built-students-passes-big-215148525.html


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

I find this very interesting but haven't really looked into it with much detail. 

I wonder if Staples have sold many of these. http://www.staples.ca/en/Afinia-H479-H-Series-3D-Printer/product_230512_2-CA_1_20001


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

liquidfinance said:


> I find this very interesting but haven't really looked into it with much detail.
> 
> I wonder if Staples have sold many of these. http://www.staples.ca/en/Afinia-H479-H-Series-3D-Printer/product_230512_2-CA_1_20001


Probably not yet, as the vast majority of people have likely never even heard of 3D printing- but wait a couple of years and holy, is this industry going to explode. As costs go down, new materials and capabilities develop, and the web infrastructure for virtual blueprints and digital models grows, this technology could transform life in an as yet unforeseen number of ways.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Awesome!! Yay for buddy!

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/good-news/lucky-duck-buttercup-gets-foot-waddles-joy-170220388.html


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

andrewf said:


> A highly capable 3D printer (something that mixed many materials, can print electronics, batteries, etc. is likely to be a fair bit costlier than the average consumer is willing to have in their home. Also, larger objects require larger printers, which require more real estate in the home. There's also the small matter of having feedstock (of the dozens of potential materials consumer goods might be made out of). I just don't see it as being realistic. Basic 3D printers that make small objects and utilize one or a few materials perhaps, but they wouldn't be terribly useful. Hobbyists like playing with them.
> 
> Really, the best 3D printer is one where you click the print button and have it show up after some short period of time. Whether the printing occurs in the home or not is of limited utility, when it might be done better cheaper by an amazon type outfit and delivered to your door (perhaps by the coming automated delivery robots). You don't even have to make sure the printer has feedstock...


I think you are being a bit too pessimistic. The first computer I saw was in a university and took up an entire room. The "room" was as big as a townhouse. Most people never dreamed that every household would have one in less than a lifetime. Now, the average home probably has several computers if you include notebooks and those Pad things. The picture you are painting is a static snapshot, when this is really a movie that will progress into the future. Also, since you are a avid crime fighter you might consider the following application: -

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechcon...-with-3-d-printers-pose-new-security-concerns

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22421185

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/08/metal-3d-printed-gun-50-shots

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

As to the idea of buying these stocks now, they are in consolidation. SSYS, DDD could take a bit more of a pounding before they are ready to go into an up trend again. Competition is going to be fierce. From an investing perspective, I'm not in a big rush to buy. Buyers of SSYS in Jan 2008 had to wait till 2010 to break even.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I have been watching ONVO....


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Just yesterday wife asked me to buy some of the 3-D Printer stocks into her LIRA  So, anyone holding/buying/watching such stocks? What are the options?


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## PatInTheHat (May 7, 2012)

gibor said:


> Just yesterday wife asked me to buy some of the 3-D Printer stocks into her LIRA  So, anyone holding/buying/watching such stocks? What are the options?


I only track DDD and i'm looking for low 40s for entry.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

PatInTheHat said:


> I only track DDD and i'm looking for low 40s for entry.


Why DDD...any specific reason? 
I've read article from the 1st post and checked some stocks....one of few that has reasonable valuation (P/E, EPS ...) is Israeli company CIMT... (also HPQ , but it's very expensive now after having huge run in last 4-5 months)...

In 2013 there was an article about potential 3D printer ETF, http://finance.yahoo.com/news/investors-may-ready-3d-printing-103025439.html
wondering if such ETF exist....?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

gibor said:


> wondering if such ETF exist....?


They have to print it first.


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## PatInTheHat (May 7, 2012)

gibor said:


> Why DDD...any specific reason?
> I've read article from the 1st post and checked some stocks....one of few that has reasonable valuation (P/E, EPS ...) is Israeli company CIMT... (also HPQ , but it's very expensive now after having huge run in last 4-5 months)...
> 
> In 2013 there was an article about potential 3D printer ETF, http://finance.yahoo.com/news/investors-may-ready-3d-printing-103025439.html
> wondering if such ETF exist....?


It's just a sector I haven't put any work into yet so if I do play it it I will go with the big names. I would strictly be owning it for short term momentum play. I'm certain if you dig there are much better and safer purchases in this space for the long term.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

couple of news bits on 3D printing

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/man-whose-head-crushed-accident-150702015.html


http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/09/3d-printer-builds-concrete-house-just-24-hours/?sc_ref=facebook


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

DDD earnings come out this week and they are at 50-day moving average. Could jump either way now in the short term

I think the market got way ahead of itself last year buying the next great thing and now it's beaten way back. Long long term, this might be a good entry into 3-D printing


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## dime (Jun 20, 2013)

Great question and topic to bring up. It's a hot new technology... and likely a 'game changer' going forward, like desktop publishing was. 

But for investing I'm not quite sure who the "coke and pepsi" of this emerging technology is right now. Seems like a rather competitive space right now... and I'm sure the Chinese have already come out with cheaper lower cost 'clones'.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I love this technology- can't wait for it to explode over the next couple of decades. What a time to be alive

http://www.ted.com/talks/anthony_atala_printing_a_human_kidney

https://ca.shine.yahoo.com/how-a-3d...ansform-the-food-industry-211258791.html?vp=1


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