# BlackBerry BB



## gigimia11 (Jun 5, 2020)

Personal thoughts on the new direction BB is taking with their cybersecurity software and autonomous driving. Where do you predict the company/shares will be in 10 years??


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

They've been on this direction ever since they got out of building phones 4 years ago. It's not particularly new. The space for embedded OS for cars is pretty niche and they aren't a major player. Their OS based on QNX is pretty robust and from a technical standpoint, is tailor-made. However, it's a pretty competitive field. They'll probably be around, but I doubt they'll rise to the same heights that they had in the Blackberry heyday.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Blackberry bought QNX like a decade ago and have little to show. Nowadays everyone wants Apple Carplay or Android Auto.. so QNX is basically a car OS for climate control

TSLA is doing all kinds of innovative things with cars and shows the kinds of innovative things QNX could have thought of.. but didn't. Same for AI

Cybersecurity has lots of potential imo but governments are preventing true security.. plus you need to make your own components or else they all have backdoors anyways


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Blackberry (formerly RIM) is soaring in recent days due to an Amazon partnership called IVY

I have some exposure to BB because I hold XIT for Canadian tech


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

james4beach said:


> I have some exposure to BB because I hold XIT for Canadian tech


Oh I was wondering who the other XIT holder was...😀


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> Blackberry bought QNX like a decade ago and have little to show. Nowadays everyone wants Apple Carplay or Android Auto.. so QNX is basically a car OS for climate control


Apple Carplay and Android Auto are fine if all you want to do is play tunes


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

interesting to hear of selling patents to hauwei.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Apple Carplay and Android Auto are fine if all you want to do is play tunes


It's far more than that. It's like saying "an iPhone is great if all you want to do is play tunes"

Carplay/Android Auto feature apps on your car's navigation screen. 

The best is Waze. You get real-time traffic guidance, actual traffic speeds, radar traps, accident reports and AI that will provide you the best alternate routes.

They provide a hands-free, legal way to get the most out of your iOS/Android phone.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

iPhones or Androids themselves do of course do more than play tunes without need for Carplay/Android Auto. I looked up what Android Auto adds: android auto features - Bing . Or Android Auto: What It Is and How to Use It (lifewire.com) . Not much really if car already has many of the features built in.

As a dotnet_nerd, I am sure you have a data plan. Not all of us do. Maybe you can advise if Android Auto can provide navigation using pre-downloaded maps if it does not have a data connection? If so, it would save us from updating mapping on our Subaru when our 3yr map updates end. I have used downloaded Google maps on the phone itself on our older cars.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

agent99 said:


> iPhones or Androids themselves do of course do more than play tunes without need for Carplay/Android Auto. I looked up what Android Auto adds: android auto features - Bing . Or Android Auto: What It Is and How to Use It (lifewire.com) . Not much really if car already has many of the features built in.
> 
> As a dotnet_nerd, I am sure you have a data plan. Not all of us do. Maybe you can advise if Android Auto can provide navigation using pre-downloaded maps if it does not have a data connection? If so, it would save us from updating mapping on our Subaru when our 3yr map updates end. I have used downloaded Google maps on the phone itself on our older cars.


You can download and save maps. I do it all the time.

You should test if navigation works, I assume the voice recognition doesn't.
Personally I love Android Auto, I won't buy a car without it.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Anyone watched BB lately? Stock has almost doubled in price since end of December. Seems to be a combination of deal with Amazon, settlement of legal issues with Facebook and willingness to sell off some of their telecom patents. 

I took my profits on RIM/BB a long time ago, but kept a small amount. I won't get rich on it!

By the way, my wife and I both own Blackberry Playbooks. We use them every day as book readers. They still work well, but if software support ends, we may have to move on one of these days.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

BB is undergoing some professional pump and dump. There is enough bits and pieces around the company to make it look good, but really we are talking about a company struggling to transition and that ultimately has been seeing revenue slumps here. 

But if you take a valuation metric applied to nosebleed technology companies and apply it to Blackberry, you can pretty much come up with any number you would like. 10 times revenue? How about 20 times revenue? 50 times revenue! <rocket emoji>


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

doctrine said:


> BB is undergoing some professional pump and dump. There is enough bits and pieces around the company to make it look good, but really we are talking about a company struggling to transition and that ultimately has been seeing revenue slumps here.
> 
> But if you take a valuation metric applied to nosebleed technology companies and apply it to Blackberry, you can pretty much come up with any number you would like. 10 times revenue? How about 20 times revenue? 50 times revenue! <rocket emoji>


I don't think it's specific to BB...

BB seems to be getting a boost along with many stocks that have negative earnings. I know that sounds stupid but I'm not joking. There seems to be a theme these days of stocks with no earnings rallying the most.

My guess is that it's a stimulus-driven speculative mania sweeping the market. Stocks with net losses (like BB, FCEL, PLUG, BLDP) are easier to speculate on because their valuations can't be "grounded", and are therefore easier to push up to any arbitrary level. The valuations don't have to be justified.

All that's needed is a story and it's off to the races. The same thing is happening with other highly distressed Canadian companies like Sherritt and pot stocks in HMMJ.

If central bank stimulus continues, we might get a lot more of this. The most speculative stocks rallying the most, perhaps? What a great portfolio that would be ... BB, Sherritt, HMMJ, BLDP


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

BlackBerry settled their patent dispute with Facebook.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Blackberry is doing a lot of good and interesting things.
I think it's just nostalgia that anyone even pays attention.

It's a lottery ticket, that likely won't pay off.
Sure they could get a bunch of big deals, but unfortunately their best days are over.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Gator13 said:


> BlackBerry settled their patent dispute with Facebook.


As well as several other positives that I mentioned in post #11 above.

The company is now primarily a software and services tech company and had significant growth in this area in 2020. Projections for Q1/Q2 2021 were not very good due apparently to effect of Covid on car production (Where their QNX finds most of it's applications). The Facebook and Amazon settlement/partnerships seem to have spiked investor interest. That and short sellers may have caused spike?

This is now more like a startup tech company. Those with negative comments above should rather compare with similar sized tech companies who don't have the store of patents that BB has.

This is a recent review that covers most bases: BB Stock: BlackBerry Squeezes the Shorts - CNA Finance

By the way, I wouldn't buy more BB myself (too speculative for me). But I will be interested to watch how they do as EVs, cloud monitoring and self driving become more commonplace.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

As @gigimia11 said, Blackberry became a cyber security & autonomous vehicle company and that industry is hot. And when you have a partnership with Amazon, it helps. See CJT.TO.

Now that everybody knows about the failure of Blackberry and are not tempted to invest back into it, it makes it a perfect contrarian investment. Management certainly doesn't want to be another failure story. And they are good at tech and innovation, but they've made the wrong bets in the past and it doesn't mean they'll make the wrong bets this time.

I'd totally be willing to invest in Blackberry, but at the moment I'd prefer holding it through a thematic ETF.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

agent99 said:


> This is now more like a startup tech company. Those with negative comments above should rater compare with similar sized tech companies who don't have the store of patents that BB has.


Investing in tech startups is a gamble. Most tech startups aren't as big as BB.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

agent99 said:


> This is now more like a startup tech company. Those with negative comments above should rather compare with similar sized tech companies who don't have the store of patents that BB has.
> 
> This is a recent review that covers most bases: BB Stock: BlackBerry Squeezes the Shorts - CNA Finance
> 
> By the way, I wouldn't buy more BB myself (too speculative for me). But I will be interested to watch how they do as EVs, cloud monitoring and self driving become more commonplace.


This is typical of expensive tech stocks. Blackberry is being purchased on speculation of future growth. While stocks are forward looking and this is fine, it is fascinating to see how little substance is required these days to shoot companies to the moon. It is totally typical of the 2000 era. Stocks get priced at levels at which there is very little hope of future return even if everything works out, which it will inevitably not for everyone in every area.

Blackberry has demonstrated zero material growth in the overall size of the company in years - the company continues to shrink or at best hang on while still trading at expensive 10 times revenue levels. There is no guarantee they will see any returns on capital in EVs, cloud monitoring, or self driving - all hyper competitive industries with hundreds of billions of new capital being employed as we speak. Those pumping the company simply have to say some buzzwords and the stock moves up. All Blackberry is missing is bitcoin investments topped off by some cannabis, mushrooms, and COVID rapid tests.

There will be significant capital destruction in renewables as well as clean tech and electric cars and again this is typical of hot markets - growth of capital employed does not equal return on capital or even return of capital, but unfortunately none of that matters now and to the moon we go.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I sold my few little shares for $4.something back in April - So I expect this to keep rising indefinitely - probably to $100.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Looking forward to the new blackberry phone. Can't seem to drop the physical keyboard. Been using blackberry phones since the curve release in 2007. My Keyone is on it's last legs.

I have a few shares of BB in my TFSA - just fun money. I'm not overly optimistic on a true turnaround. I think I may have purchased peterk's shares!


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

peterk said:


> I sold my few little shares for $4.something back in April - So I expect this to keep rising indefinitely - probably to $100.


I hope you are right  At one time I had a much larger holding in my RRSP. Sold some and made a few $$$ when price was much higher. What was left transferred at some point to unregistered at just over $16. I watched it head South to your $4. Now it has fully recovered to my acb price! I should put in a sell order at $100! Meanwhile hold for entertainment.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

As someone who lived in KW for a long time (some of the best years of my life), I was tempted to relive those glory days and go long BB again. But decided to use my gambling money on BBD.B instead.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> As someone who lived in KW for a long time (some of the best years of my life), I was tempted to relive those glory days and go long BB again. But decided to use my gambling money on BBD.B instead.


Were you around with the first/second generation BB? I remember a worker was showing his BB, and I noticed the LED that would flash when you get an e-mail. I remember asking if it could be disabled, and he mentioned they hadn't gotten around to implementing that feature.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Were you around with the first/second generation BB? I remember a worker was showing his BB, and I noticed the LED that would flash when you get an e-mail. I remember asking if it could be disabled, and he mentioned they hadn't gotten around to implementing that feature.


You've got to understand something about RIM, the leadership was very stubborn.
They set their priorities and acted, which works well.. until it doesn't.

Lots of visionaries are like this.

I liked the multicoloured LED so I know what messaged me, but that was back in the days where I didn't get a near constant stream of notifications.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> Were you around with the first/second generation BB? I remember a worker was showing his BB, and I noticed the LED that would flash when you get an e-mail. I remember asking if it could be disabled, and he mentioned they hadn't gotten around to implementing that feature.


My BB Playbook still does that. Haven't checked if it can be disabled. Unless I am reading an e-book, it is usually sitting on it's charger stand. It is a useful alert to check my mail! May be preferable to the noises my phone makes when messages come in.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

bgc_fan said:


> Were you around with the first/second generation BB? I remember a worker was showing his BB, and I noticed the LED that would flash when you get an e-mail. I remember asking if it could be disabled, and he mentioned they hadn't gotten around to implementing that feature.


I wasn't there that early. By the time I was living in KW, Blackberry had already become huge.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

agent99 said:


> My BB Playbook still does that. Haven't checked if it can be disabled. Unless I am reading an e-book, it is usually sitting on it's charger stand. It is a useful alert to check my mail! May be preferable to the noises my phone makes when messages come in.


So, I'm curious, do you just use your Playbook for e-books? I have one, but it has been pretty much replaced by an Android tablet. I power it up once in a while, but don't use it on a regular basis. It was handy when taking the bus, and I may download some magazines to read, but now, I'm not even sure what support it has for various document types.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I wasn't there that early. By the time I was living in KW, Blackberry had already become huge.


It certainly got big... enough that they were involved with buying Nortel's patent portfolio. Hate to see it disappear, but they seem to have found a niche to survive. Not sure if I'd be interested in purchasing at this point though.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> So, I'm curious, do you just use your Playbook for e-books?


Pretty well just as ebook reader. But when the light flashes, I can read emails too. One thing about imap - you get them everywhere! 

The Kobo app still works which eliminates need to download books to PB. If it gets abandoned, I could still download books and transfer to PB via cable. Then read using one of the other bookreader apps. However, this needs the Blackberry Desktop software which doesn't seem to work on W10 (I still have dual boot to Win7, so that gets it done). I used to transfer files to PB by wifi, but I seem to have forgotten how to do that 

Some other apps still work (like Adobe Acrobat). But browsers are only semi-functional.

Like me, it's a dinosaur (I also mostly drive a 1985 car, despite newer options  )


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

I had put my gambling money here. But the melt up was so attractive that I decided to liquidate today.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

capricorn said:


> I had put my gambling money here. But the melt up was so attractive that I decided to liquidate today.


Congrats! Well the central banks have made all of us into gamblers. I opened a gambling position yesterday myself.

This is the world we live in now. I own some Bitcoin and Bombardier, and strongly considered Blackberry to keep the "B" theme going.


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## hboy54 (Sep 16, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Congrats! Well the central banks have made all of us into gamblers. I opened a gambling position yesterday myself.
> 
> This is the world we live in now. I own some Bitcoin and Bombardier, and strongly considered Blackberry to keep the "B" theme going.


I nominate Baytex,


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Up 30+% today


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> Up 30+% today


Amazing run so far this year. I must be up about 50% on acb in taxable account. Selling wouldn't change my life, so will just enjoy the entertainment as it goes up and up or down


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Too funny. Blackberry put out a press release saying they have no clue why the shares are surging. "BlackBerry Ltd. said there weren't any major changes at the company on Monday, despite a trading frenzy that drove its share price to its highest level since October 2011."









BlackBerry says it doesn't know what's behind recent share price surge


BlackBerry Ltd. said there weren't any major changes at the company on Monday, despite a trading frenzy that drove its share price to its highest level since October 2011.



www.ctvnews.ca





To me it looks like a speculative mania by gamblers, where many (somewhat random) stocks are spiking up like crazy. TSLA, PLUG, BB, GME. It's gambling money chasing things to gamble on, and unprofitable companies are a bigger target because it's easier to construct a plausible narrative. It's easier because you don't have to justify the prices.

Goldman Sachs published an internal index of "unprofitable companies" which shows a sudden huge rally starting in recent months. It's been circulating on social media and even made it to the mainstream media. They did not explicitly say this, but publishing that invites other market participants to engage in the same activity. My guess is that this Goldman chart, which came out a few days ago, helps align speculators to all converge on unprofitable companies to jump on this massive trade. BB would clearly be in that internal index.

That "index" would of course have been seen inside Goldman Sachs long before it was publicly released, meaning that Goldman already established their positions before throwing it out to the public to feed the pump job. And it's likely not just Goldman but Wall Street more generally. There are a few high profile Wall Street firms which have been pumping the same kinds of positions for a few weeks now.

I even saw an interview a couple days ago with Jeremy Grantham (a notorious bear!) endorsing a subset of these same stocks. And Jim Cramer has been shamelessly pumping them on Mad Money for a while now. Again it's important that they are unprofitable, because any silly old story is enough to justify the "buy" recommendation.

So that's my guess. This trend emerged, or starting emerging. Wall Street detected it (or fuelled it) because they have superior analytical capabilities. They established positions, then started dropping the hints publicly, which is why in the last week or two we've been seeing it appear in media coverage.

That's a pump job. Completely legal.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Too funny. Blackberry put out a press release saying they have no clue why the shares are surging. "BlackBerry Ltd. said there weren't any major changes at the company on Monday, despite a trading frenzy that drove its share price to its highest level since October 2011."


Very funny indeed.

Anyways, take TSLA for instance, Musk said in May 2020 that it was overvalued. Then, he just sh*t up and enjoyed the ride to the first position as the wealthiest on Earth, laughing out loud as the stock is now 6x its May 2020 price.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Very funny indeed.


BB is up 20% in the early am premarket
GME is up 17% premarket
AMC (cinemas) up 17% premarket


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> BB is up 20% in the early am premarket
> GME is up 17% premarket
> AMC (cinemas) up 17% premarket


Almost wondering if I should ride the early stage of stock bubbles. Seems like so many stocks can soar +500% within 6 months before correction. So much easy money to make... As long as you don't enter too late... But I won't.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Almost wondering if I should ride the early stage of stock bubbles. Seems like so many stocks can soar +500% within 6 months before correction. So much easy money to make... As long as you don't enter too late... But I won't.


Everyone gets that idea. It's kind of like momentum trading... doable, as long as you have a clear exit plan.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Everyone gets that idea. It's kind of like momentum trading... doable, as long as you have a clear exit plan.


See GME : The craziest bubble stocks


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> So that's my guess. This trend emerged, or starting emerging. Wall Street detected it (or fuelled it) because they have superior analytical capabilities. They established positions, then started dropping the hints publicly, which is why in the last week or two we've been seeing it appear in media coverage.


There's some kind of reddit meme of pumping stocks into a short squeeze like what happened to TSLA

At least that's what mainstream media was saying this morning (I see it at work) Funny to hear Bloomberg talk about reddit memes with a serious face



> There’s been an awakening. A large group of retail traders have realized if they work together, using market tools such as out-of-the-money call options or low-float stocks, they can overpower any institution or short seller in the world, outside of the Fed, of course.


Maybe CMF could pull this off with a little coordination?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

By my calculation, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan just saw a *$400 million boost to their Blackberry position* in just a couple months.

At premarket, the shares are trading at 20.70 USD = over $26 CAD, so imagine that on the chart below... trading at $26 CAD

I really hope they act fast and sell at least part of that position. Even if they have very long term ambitions, they should sell some into the strength. A no-brainer.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Peter Schiff describes it well.....

It is the same "greater fool" hysteria as seen in bitcoin, but is further propelled in a heavily shorted stock.

The reddit group that is organizing this is........









r/wallstreetbets


r/wallstreetbets: Like 4chan found a Bloomberg Terminal




www.reddit.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

P.S........the way to stop the practice is for "smart" investors......like the Ontario Teachers Fund mentioned by James....to cash out and take profits.

When the gang at Reddit discover they lost all their money and they are the greatest fools.......they won't be interested anymore.

After the stock price crashes back to realistic levels, investors who want to own the stocks due to merit can re-invest in it at the lower price.

Some of the gang experienced the pain when Gamestop fell from $150 per share to $75 per share in a matter of hours.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> When the gang at Reddit discover they lost all their money and they are the greatest fools.......they won't be interested anymore.


There is an endless supply of greater fools who think they know better than the experts.
If they're not willing to take investment advice from Warren Buffett and pretty much every other expert, they deserve to learn the hard way.

#9 is important.





Top 10 Pieces of Investment Advice from Warren Buffett


Warren Buffett’s investment advice is timeless. We have lost track of the number of investing mistakes we have made over the years, but almost all of them fall into one of the 10 buckets of investm...




www.simplysafedividends.com


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Sold my initial investment plus a healthy return. Will let the remaining shares ride in my TFSA. Used the proceeds to buy AQN.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

CNBC calls it the "Reddit trade" now and it is spreading to other stocks.

It is stock manipulation on a large scale.........but the financiers don't want to say it out loud because it was so easy to accomplish by the "little guys".

Usually it is the rich who fleece the little guys. In this case, the little guys are fleecing the rich.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Halted


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It's still actively trading on the TSX, around $28 right now, lots of shares moving.

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan had better be selling at least part of this position. I really hope they are cashing out from this insanity... this price is incredible. Fingers crossed for the teachers. Come on guys, cash out on stupidity. The pension has got to sell at least 1/4 of their position, I hope.


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Sold 200 out of 500 I bought a week ago.
Will ride the rest out until the next earning report.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

james4beach said:


> It's still actively trading on the TSX, around $28 right now, lots of shares moving.
> 
> Ontario Teachers Pension Plan had better be selling at least part of this position. I really hope they are cashing out from this insanity... this price is incredible. Fingers crossed for the teachers. Come on guys, cash out on stupidity. The pension has got to sell at least 1/4 of their position, I hope.
> 
> View attachment 21177


Was halted at 954am....I guess it went live again



https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/iiroc-trading-halt-bb-150600002.html


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I just took action to guaranty that BB will not go above $30.00. 

Put in a hard stop at $30.05!


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

OOPS - It sold at $30.05. Now about $35!

Can't win them all  After seeing this CN clip on Gamestop/Reddit, I am not unhappy. The stock is not worth $30.00 at this point.









GameStop's stock surge: Reddit traders vs hedge funds | CNN Business


A group of investors on Reddit have helped fuel a so-called short squeeze in GameStop stock. CNN's Christine Romans reports.




www.cnn.com





This is what Fool said: BlackBerry (TSX:BB) Stock: How High Can Reddit Push it? - The Motley Fool Canada. 

Excerpt: 
*



Bottom line

Click to expand...

*


> BlackBerry stock has been surging on demand from Reddit users. But this short squeeze is temporary. It may be the perfect opportunity to sell and book profits now.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Its just short covering after millions of donkeys are hitting the bid.. Grats to all who are profiting, not sure I would wait for earnings to sell though lol.

Great fun to watch these hedge funds bleeding hard though.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eder said:


> Great fun to watch these hedge funds bleeding hard though.


Why wouldn't even more hedge funds also be long and joining the pump? For all we know, the wallstreetbets are enriching huge numbers of hedge funds.

Do you think that amateurs with $2000 cash are the only people capable of hitting the "buy" button? The world is full of hedge funds and institutional traders.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Why wouldn't even more hedge funds also be long and joining the pump?


How could they join the pump? Retail traders are targeting their most popular short positions so hedge funds are busy dealing with their bleeding.



https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/short-squeezed-hedge-funds-now-221416900.html


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> How could they join the pump? Retail traders are targeting their most popular short positions so hedge funds are busy dealing with their bleeding.
> 
> 
> 
> https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/short-squeezed-hedge-funds-now-221416900.html


Not all hedge funds take the same positions, obviously. There are a ton of hedge funds and bank trading desks out there.

Why do they care if some stupid hedge fund peer blew up? These guys are all adversaries and competitors to each other.

Hedge funds are perfectly capable of pumping this trade and driving the rally. The people on r/wallstreetbets might be creating massive trading profits for the largest investment banks, Goldman Sachs, etc.

Or even better, r/wallstreetbets may have initiated a rally which would have been illegal for Goldman & friends to start themselves, due to regulatory compliance requirements. But now that r/wallstreetbets has done the dirty work (start the pump & dump), the investment banks can jump on and profit.

I suspect the same is true for Bitcoin as well. The investment banks couldn't lead that pump & dump, but social media crooks did that part ... and then Wall Street jumps on board and can profit from the same pump & dump even though they *couldn't* have started it themselves. Since that kind of practice was eliminated back in the 1970s or 1980s.

I think it's very naive of people to think they are are "screwing" Wall Street. The social media people might actually be helping Wall Street a lot, doing the dirty work that these large hedge funds actually can't get away with doing themselves.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Yes obviously there is big money on the buy side here...I should have been more specific about which hedge funds I enjoyed watching squirm. At any rate this is crazy and fun but bound to end in tears.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Not all hedge funds take the same positions, obviously. There are a ton of hedge funds and bank trading desks out there.
> 
> Why do they care if some stupid hedge fund peer blew up? These guys are all adversaries and competitors to each other.
> 
> Hedge funds are perfectly capable of pumping this trade and driving the rally. The people on r/wallstreetbets might be creating massive trading profits for the largest investment banks, Goldman Sachs, etc.


Yes, you could be right on that, I agree.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eder said:


> Yes obviously there is big money on the buy side here...I should have been more specific about which hedge funds I enjoyed watching squirm. At any rate this is crazy and fun but bound to end in tears.


I agree it will end in tears.

Do you think any investors are shifting money from real long term investments (the solid large cap portfolios) to gamble on this stuff?

I engaged in a bit of a gamble and bought $1000 of Bombardier, on top of my $500 in Bitcoin, but that's about as much as I'm willing to gamble. Those positions are tiny/meaningless compared to any of my other stock positions.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

(Wrong thread)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Why isn't BlackBerry issuing new shares?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Why isn't BlackBerry issuing new shares?


What is the process for a company to issue new shares? Can they just do it overnight without warning shareholders?

If companies start issuing shares willy nilly like the governments are printing money..


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

most companies are authorized in their charter with a zillion shares, and do not issue all of them at start up. Lots get issued when they buy other companies.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ponderling said:


> most companies are authorized in their charter with a zillion shares, and do not issue all of them at start up. Lots get issued when they buy other companies.


I'm typically against companies playing stock games.

However, if they're dramatically overvalued, or undervalued, I think it can make sense.
Berkshire has an "undervalued stock" buyback policy.

That being said, playing the rollercoaster like this is a bad idea.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

agent99 said:


> OOPS - It sold at $30.05. Now about $35!


Well done, actually. The stock is down -28% today. You've only missed the $36 high. $30 seems fair, considering it was +100% from 5 days ago!


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Is sitting at about $15 this am. Not down far enough to convince me it is time the hop back in. I sold at about $7.8 prior to the Microsoft work contract news


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> By my calculation, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan just saw a *$400 million boost to their Blackberry position* in just a couple months.
> 
> At premarket, the shares are trading at 20.70 USD = over $26 CAD, so imagine that on the chart below... trading at $26 CAD
> 
> I really hope they act fast and sell at least part of that position. Even if they have very long term ambitions, they should sell some into the strength. A no-brainer.


I really hope OTPP realized profits during that insanity. During this mania, BB shares were above $16 much of the time and the spike above $20 was a "no-brainer" sell point as I posted at the time.

BB now trades under $8 .... easy come, easy go.

Does anyone know of OTPP was sharp enough to cash out? If they didn't act, I think their traders should be fired. Opportunities like that don't come very often but when they do, requires quick action.


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