# Political correctness getting me down



## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I agree that respecting people is important, but sometimes I think it gets a bit out of hand. This week at work, it was announced that we could no longer refer to the period around December 25th as Christmas, but only as Holidays. So for example, our yearly staff party is no longer the Christmas party, it's the staff holiday party. We can't have any decorations that state 'Merry Xmas' or whatever, or even wish coworkers or customers/suppliers etc Merry Christmas, as it may offend certain people. I actually find THAT offensive. Are we supposed to respect everyone's beliefs and culture except our own? 

Just needed to vent, as I obviously can't do it to anyone at work- it would be offensive...


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

What's the big deal? I think this easily falls into reasonable accommodation seeing that it's based on a holiday for a fake ******* child - who's chief proponents are child molesters. Super.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

indexxx said:


> This week at work, it was announced that we could no longer refer to the period around December 25th as Christmas, but only as Holidays. So for example, our yearly staff party is no longer the Christmas party, it's the staff holiday party.


You are noticing this _now_?
Where have you been for the last 10 years or so?
Most organizations did away with Christmas at least 10 years ago.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

indexxxx, this is called reverse racism.... I don't have much relation to Christianity  , but this is also pisses me off ...


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> You are noticing this _now_?
> Where have you been for the last 10 years or so?
> Most organizations did away with Christmas at least 10 years ago.



-Yes, it is news to me that we are no longer allowed to wish people Merry Christmas- although I usually say happy holidays due to my own beliefs or lack thereof, not out of a desire to spare someone. 
-Cayman Islands. And yes, it was surreal seeing Santa sleighs in the Caribbean.
-I was not aware of this, as every place I've worked has had a Christmas party.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

none said:


> What's the big deal? I think this easily falls into reasonable accommodation seeing that it's based on a holiday for a fake ******* child - who's chief proponents are child molesters. Super.


It's that we are supposed to ignore a harmless tradition of goodwill. Being atheist, I'm not interested in the fake ******* son; it's the fact that we have to tiptoe around so much and everyone is so hypersensitive. For example, if I was travelling or living in a foreign country, and in the spirit of fellowship (or should I now say 'personship'...?) someone wished me a happy 'whatever' their local celebration is, I would be gracious in accepting both their good wishes and their festivities.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

and Xmas tree now called Holiday tree


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The way I see it is corporate organizations need to be politically correct because of their multi-cultural workforce. That does not stop individual employees from sticking to their preferences when they speak on their own behalf. Just can't include/invoke the corporate name in such greetings. I send out Happy Holiday (rather than Christmas) cards because I am an atheist myself but note that I still send out a few Happy Holiday cards. That is simply out of respect for tradition to those that matter to me.


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## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

altared, if it's tradition
wouldn't those that matter to you
prefer merry xmas ?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

most people are like sheep, dont you know?
"Happy Holidays"? gimme a break! "Happy Half-Day Dec. 24; Dec. 25 & 26; and Jan. 1" would be more appropriate.
How long is the "holiday season" anyway? Is is longer than the baseball season? the hunting season? 
Oh, and a hearty "sustainable", "locally-sourced", "free-range", and "climate change" - for good measure!! baa-aaa-aaaa.
_Humbug!_


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> most people are like sheep, dont you know?
> "Happy Holidays"? gimme a break! "Happy Half-Day Dec. 24; Dec. 25 & 26; and Jan. 1" would be more appropriate.
> How long is the "holiday season" anyway? Is is longer than the baseball season? the hunting season?
> Oh, and a hearty "sustainable", "locally-sourced", "free-range", and "climate change" - for good measure!! baa-aaa-aaaa.
> _Humbug!_


Tomorrow I'm going locally-sourced, free-range, organic, low-emission, sustainable, craft, boutique, non-denominational, non-species and non-gender specific, humanely killed holiday tree shopping. Who's coming with?


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I am catholic but do not buy everything the church preaches or does except Jesus and god.

Still however the politically correct crap is annoying but has gone on for quite some time. I saw the other day some college students in the US claiming black Friday is racist. The word black means that is when the stores start turning a profit and doesn't refer to black people in any way. If however some people decided it still is racist then don't go to the Black Friday sales. What are the chances that people would boycott the sales.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

dogcom said:


> I am catholic but do not buy everything the church preaches or does except Jesus and god.
> 
> Still however the politically correct crap is annoying but has gone on for quite some time. I saw the other day some college students in the US claiming black Friday is racist. The word black means that is when the stores start turning a profit and doesn't refer to black people in any way. If however some people decided it still is racist then don't go to the Black Friday sales. What are the chances that people would boycott the sales.


I heard a couple of years ago that some were offended by Santa saying 'Ho Ho Ho', as it brought up connotations of prostitution. I'm not making this up. That is just ASININE- because of rap's appropriation and mispronunciation of the word 'whore', we are supposed to suppress Santa's laugh. Two GIGANTIC middle fingers to that.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Christmas and Easter, which should be sacred Christian observances both have been turned into a commercial circus. All the original Christian meaning has been lost, and Christians went along with it. If they really cared, they would have objected more strongly before now. Then again, they stole the day to celebrate the birth of Jesus from the pagans, so take that!

If you're really religious and wish to practice your traditions, then you can simply ignore the madness around you and observe your holiday in your own way with similar minded friends and family.


Merry Christmas!


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

indexxx said:


> Tomorrow I'm going locally-sourced, free-range, organic, low-emission, sustainable, craft, boutique, non-denominational, non-species and non-gender specific, humanely killed holiday tree shopping. Who's coming with?


have you "reached out" to the tree harvesters, to see if the trees were raised without the use of steroids or hormones?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

indexxx said:


> I agree that respecting people is important, but sometimes I think it gets a bit out of hand. This week at work, it was announced that we could no longer refer to the period around December 25th as Christmas, but only as Holidays. So for example, our yearly staff party is no longer the Christmas party, it's the staff holiday party. We can't have any decorations that state 'Merry Xmas' or whatever, or even wish coworkers or customers/suppliers etc Merry Christmas, as it may offend certain people. I actually find THAT offensive. Are we supposed to respect everyone's beliefs and culture except our own?
> 
> Just needed to vent, as I obviously can't do it to anyone at work- it would be offensive...


At my workplace, we celebrate (mention, at least--sometimes events) Diwali, Eid-al-Fitr, Yom Kippur, etc. We do sometimes refer to the December time frame as 'the holidays', but we don't shy away from mentioning the c-word. It's more just that there are other religious observances happening at the same time. 

I'm an atheist, so I see all these more as cultural celebrations than having any more religious significance than Neptunalia.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

indexxx said:


> I heard a couple of years ago that some were offended by Santa saying 'Ho Ho Ho', as it brought up connotations of prostitution. I'm not making this up. That is just ASININE- because of rap's appropriation and mispronunciation of the word 'whore', we are supposed to suppress Santa's laugh. Two GIGANTIC middle fingers to that.


This is just stupidity and ignorance. The 'ho ho ho' refers to a somewhat archaic characterization of laughter. Only the professionally offended would make that connection.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> we celebrate (mention, at least--sometimes events) ... Eid-al-Fitr


 you were wearing "shahid belts" ? :biggrin:


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> The way I see it is corporate organizations need to be politically correct because of their multi-cultural workforce. That does not stop individual employees from sticking to their preferences when they speak on their own behalf. Just can't include/invoke the corporate name in such greetings. I send out Happy Holiday (rather than Christmas) cards because I am an atheist myself but note that I still send out a few Happy Holiday cards. That is simply out of respect for tradition to those that matter to me.


I was recently travelling for work and visited a facility operated by another company in rural Missouri. A poster in their lobby referred to their core company values being honesty, integrity and strong Christian principles. I can only imagine the reaction such a poster would get in Toronto (no one would dream of stepping on that landmine). And this is a $200 million facility owned by a subsidiary of a large S&P 500 company, so not a mom-and-pop outfit.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> core company values being honesty, integrity and strong Christian principles.


 it's OK... but imagine company that "values being honesty, integrity and strong Sunni (or Shi'a) principles :biggrin:


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think our society is in serious decay rather than entering a new age of enlightenment,not good, ask any Roman.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Eder said:


> I think our society is in serious decay rather than entering a new age of enlightenment,not good, ask any Roman.


"...Not with a bang, but a whimper."


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

AMABILE said:


> altared, if it's tradition
> wouldn't those that matter to you
> prefer merry xmas ?


Sending them a card with Happy Holidays is the compromise to not acknowledging the season at all. Bottom line is the few that receive my cards appreciate the acknowledgement.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

andrewf said:


> I was recently travelling for work and visited a facility operated by another company in rural Missouri. A poster in their lobby referred to their core company values being honesty, integrity and strong Christian principles. I can only imagine the reaction such a poster would get in Toronto (no one would dream of stepping on that landmine). And this is a $200 million facility owned by a subsidiary of a large S&P 500 company, so not a mom-and-pop outfit.


What do you expect from a company located in Missouri? It is advertising/marketing. The South is about as hard core Christian as the Middle East is hard core Muslim. I have lived and worked in the South. Oppressive is an understatement. That same company would say something appropriately different in India. Tailor the message.

P.S. Our company (and others) used to have signs at the entrances to their offices in the South that said "No firearms on premises. Leave them in your vehicle". Didn't need those signs in more civilized locations.


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## Nerd Investor (Nov 3, 2015)

andrewf said:


> At my workplace, we celebrate (mention, at least--sometimes events) Diwali, Eid-al-Fitr, Yom Kippur, etc. We do sometimes refer to the December time frame as 'the holidays', but we don't shy away from mentioning the c-word. It's more just that there are other religious observances happening at the same time.
> 
> I'm an atheist, so I see all these more as cultural celebrations than having any more religious significance than Neptunalia.


Same as us. No one tip toes around Christmas, but at the same time when the e-mails go out we also get well wishes for the other holidays as well. And I think that's the way it should be. If we all want to be truly inclusive and respective, that shouldn't mean an environment where we're all afraid to say anything other than "Happy Holidays" it should be if I say "Merry Christmas" to someone, they can shoot a "Happy Diwali" right back and we both go on our merry way.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> it should be if I say "Merry Christmas" to someone, they can shoot a "Happy Diwali" right back


 When I told "Merry Christmas", I reply "Happy Hanukkah"


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

You are all missing the point. Every single religious holiday should be recognized and celebrated. I would love to have a month off for Ramadan and a second chinese new years off in January.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Good topic, but I think out of all the societal ailments that are currently being caused by political correctness, holiday greetings are at the very bottom of the list in terms of significance. This is one of those trivial topics that governments would prefer we focus our energies on to distract us, instead of starting a discourse on the REAL problems caused by political correctness.

I also hate the term political correctness. It is purposefully named to sound like a good thing, or at least seem not that bad. It's got the word "correct" in it for goodness sake.
The proper definition that should be assigned to what is understood as the act of "being politically correct" is _*"censorship through the repression and persecution of free speech"*_.

Those who insist on the necessity of political correctness, do so because they know that without it their arguments will very quickly be overwhelmed by fact, logic and reason. Their only hope at winning a debate is to stifle and censor their opponent into oblivion.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

peterk said:


> Those who insist on the necessity of political correctness, do so because they know that without it their arguments will very quickly be overwhelmed by fact, logic and reason. Their only hope at winning a debate is to stifle and censor their opponent into oblivion.


While I would agree with this statement based on my CMF experience, but IRL I think *some people* are just trying too hard to be nice/to not offend anybody.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Moneytoo said:


> While I would agree with this statement based on my CMF experience, but IRL I think *some people* are just trying too hard to be nice/to not offend anybody.


I totally agree. Now go **** yourself. (I'm kidding......)


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

none said:


> I totally agree. Now go **** yourself. (I'm kidding......)


Aaaaaa! Moderators! Please ban this asexual predator! lol


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Political correctness is not about being polite, it is about the thought police exerting control over what others are able to say in public, and to increase their standing in the Oppression Olympics of wronged parties. Like people complaining about Black Friday being racist. It doesn't have to be logical, historically accurate or even a matter of courtesy.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Moneytoo said:


> Aaaaaa! Moderators! Please ban this asexual predator! lol


He just suggested masturbation :biggrin:


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

gibor said:


> He just suggested masturbation :biggrin:


Yeah, but then he said he was "kidding", in a tiny font! Hence *a*sexual :biggrin:


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

I'm pretty much on-board with everyone above, as in what's the big deal?

Yesterday after buying some groceries I threw a toonie into the pot for the work of the Salvation Army on the way out.

The volunteer said thankyou and merry christmas. As a single dude with no family of my own I personally find the whole christmas thing a tad depressing, but I took it in the spirit in which it was meant and wished him 'likewise'.

No big deal, who cares what we call it anyways, the whole thing was adapted patch-work style, by the ancient romans from much older solstice celebrations and rituals anyways, we'll continue forward just the same, political correctness or not


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> I'm pretty much on-board with everyone above, as in what's the big deal?
> 
> Yesterday after buying some groceries I threw a toonie into the pot for the work of the Salvation Army on the way out.
> 
> ...


Exactly my point; it 'shouldn't' be a big deal, but businesses like the one I work for make it that way. They choose to see harm where none exists.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

indexxx said:


> it 'shouldn't' be a big deal, but businesses like the one I work for make it that way. They choose to see harm where none exists.


Let's not get angry at the symptoms and focus on the disease. Your employer doesn't do this just "because". 

They did it because they have lost faith in the fairness of the government and the media. If anyone commits a slight against a non-Christian person, they risk the wrath of an unconstitutional human rights tribunal that will fine them until it hurts, then an anti-corporate and anti-christian biased media will drag their good name through the mud relentlessly until bones are broken, and finally an underemployed digital mob who can't afford to buy anything in first place will plaster their name all over the internet, putting the final nail in the coffin.

This is a normal and pragmatic reaction from corporations that operate in a world that is increasingly unjust, and wholly committed to the destruction of Christian and European culture.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Nothing like another episode of Black-eyed Friday south of the border to get everyone in the Christmas spirit.
To the heart-warming tune of It's Beginning to Look A Lot Like Christmas 
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=734_1448643275


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Imo this is a direct result of liberalism running rampant in universities and now gen x and y are coming of age and the educated class(the public that earn the most make the rules)
I dare anyone to name a university that is conservative based in all of canada
This loosely relates to rise of feminism(just M.o)
at all costs even if not logic inclusion reigns supreme certainly against 'anti establishment"
In a nut shell coincides with the rise of women taking over men in the workplace
my 2 cents


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

donald said:


> Imo this is a direct result of liberalism running rampant in universities and now gen x and y are coming of age and the educated class(the public that earn the most make the rules)
> I dare anyone to name a university that is conservative based in all of canada
> This loosely relates to rise of feminism(just M.o)
> at all costs even if not logic inclusion reigns supreme certainly against 'anti establishment"
> ...


That is likely not going to happen simply because there is a well established negative correlation between education and conservatism. Not to suggest causation.... but... yes... that's why.

That's why the most conservative states in the US are populated by ******* mouth breathers.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I am not saying it's going to revert 
What I am saying is the pc movement has now swing to far to the left
Just like racism.(and gender imo)
Everybody has to walk on eggshell now with speech and its fckd!imo

Maybe it's my catholic Mennonite upbringing but say merry Christmas and always will
And iff anybody has a problem with that they can kiss my *** cause I don't care


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Wait, what? You're a catholic protestant?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

My grandfather fled Russia as a teenage boy(my great grandpa was killed by the Stalin regime)he escaped and made his way to South america and settled in Paraguay
My father was born in Paraguay(the Fernheim colony to be exact) and he immigrated to Canada as a boy(My father his siblings and my grandparents grew up attending Mennonite brethren church.

My Mother was born in canada but my grandparents immigrated to canada through the united states(they originally had hoped for american citizenship)but wound up in Canada(from Italy a village very close to Sicily)Obviously of Catholic decent and practice.

I am a half breed russian whop go figure.

My dad meet my mom in high school and love was blind
there you have it Andy lol---to answer your question.


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

For years we didn't celebrate Christmas so what I used to say was Seasons Greetings, much nicer than Happy Holidays, oh how I hate that


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

lost in space said:


> For years we didn't celebrate Christmas so what I used to say was Seasons Greetings, much nicer than Happy Holidays, oh how I hate that


If you say Seasons Greetings, you should say it for every season 



> My father his siblings and my grandparents grew up attending Mennonite brethren church.


 Russian becomes Mennonite .... funny :biggrin:


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm far more offended by all the extra taxpayer money we have to spend on duplicate Catholic school and health care systems. If some politician ever manages to get rid of the massively wasteful redundant systems, it will be a very Merry Christmas indeed.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

add in the bilingual french
I am not attacking Quebec but for the life of me if anything we should of learned chinese.
Jt dad's wasted billions imo
French is basically useless in international business
Why i got to listen to french when i call service canada is beyond me
utter waste imo being forced yes forced to take french in the public canadian school system
besides Quebec french is useless


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

That is liberal policies at it's finest
Only 1 million people outside of quebec speak french in canada
25+ million people in canada don't
Notice the anti establishment 
English is canada's language it is backwater 
always has bothered me and it costs tax payers billions.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

donald said:


> add in the bilingual french
> I am not attacking Quebec but for the life of me if anything we should of learned chinese.
> Jt dad's wasted billions imo
> French is basically useless in international business
> ...


Disagree- French is useful in Switzerland, Belgium, several other European countries, much of Africa, and all former colonies- Vietnam, parts of the Caribbean, etc. And we learn Parisian French in school, not Quebecois. But I agree that it's kind of a pain having it on everything. I'm very glad I took it in school- allowed me to travel well in Africa. (And France!)


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

donald said:


> add in the bilingual french
> I am not attacking Quebec but for the life of me if anything we should of learned chinese.
> Jt dad's wasted billions imo
> French is basically useless in international business
> ...


I disagree, it's never useless to have another language in the back pocket. As Indexx pointed out, there are a lot of French colonies and countries where it is useful. More useful than Chinese (well Mandarin) if you are doing international travel. By all means if you plan on doing business with China, then go ahead, but if you're talking about casual travel usage and you aren't in the hospitality industry, Mandarin isn't that useful. 

It reminds me of the big push for learning Japanese in the 80s and 90s because of the growth in Japan. Nowadays, unless you are dealing with Japanese compannies, you aren't getting a lot of use out of it.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Was it worth it in hindsight though?(monday mourning quaterbacking)
Without getting way off topic
I understand we were french settlers from the british colonies way back but as canada has evoled as a nation(esp immigration trends)french is trending to yesteryear.
Remember i am talking about outside quebec(the 85% majority of this nation)
Official languages act (1969)It is no secret many voters did not agree in fact a alienation of western canada we all had to pay for.
Cost of bilingualism in canada 1971-375.7 million
Cost of bilingualism at the turn of 2000-2001-1.79 billion
In that 30 year span canadians payed 37 billion of taxes
More than 85% of this country speaks english only 85 freaking %
Quebec politics and elected officials have always been elites at the federal level
I have been to Montreal and never did i need french anywhere to make my way around 
i am just questioning if it was real fair to all canadians
ie mandatory french in canadian public schools
i had no choice i had to take french speaking courses and as far as i can tell it amounted to near zero(we all payed taxes)
makes even lesser sense in 2015


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

The thing is everyone has different needs and requirements.
Someone who does a lot of international travel for business or leisure will find that having another language in the back pocket is useful.
Someone who will never be in contact with someone who speaks French will find it useless.
I didn't think that French was mandatory across Canada, at least from what I recall, schools in Toronto don't necessary teach French.
From an international relations standpoint it can be useful; for example, Canada can easily take lead on military operations in former French colonies due to the communications advantage over the USA.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

In Canada, French Second Language (FSL) study is compulsory in five provinces (Ontario, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island), and the province of British Columbia requires that all students study a second language – French being one of those options.

http://www.cea-ace.ca/education-canada/article/french-second-language-exemptions


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I just looked it is almost roughly 3 billion a year for billingualism.
from a financial standpoint it's a freaking utter waste and it is archaic
One language,less taxes and put a end to the the 'seperatism issues'
Less the 1 % of bc residents speak french yet they spend provincial 900 million a year!
Why the hell as a country do we have to put up this?

Part of me we love to see quebec become a independent nation,just watch them flounder on the world stage
and bgc i did have to take mandatory french in junior high it was only in public high school where it was a option and as far as international war?
In this day and age usa/russia/china etc dictate world affairs on world conflict
Canadian military operations on a world stage...not likely


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Most Widely Spoken Languages in the World
Chinese tops the list of most popular world languages, with over one billion speakers. English trails in third place, with 335 million speakers. This data represents first-language speakers.

Language1	Approx. number
of speakers
1. Chinese2	1,197,000,000
2. Spanish	414,000,000
3. English	335,000,000
4. Hindi	260,000,000
5. Arabic3	237,000,000
6. Portuguese	203,000,000
7. Bengali	193,000,000
8. Russian	167,000,000
9. Japanese	122,000,000
10. Javanese	84,300,000


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

donald said:


> I just looked it is almost roughly 3 billion a year for billingualism.
> from a financial standpoint it's a freaking utter waste and it is archaic
> One language,less taxes and put a end to the the 'seperatism issues'
> Less the 1 % of bc residents speak french yet they spend provincial 900 million a year!
> Why the hell as a country do we have to put up this?


Switzerland seems to be doing well with multiple languages. Should the language training be more regionalized? Perhaps, but there are benefits for learning a second language and French is a fairly decent base if one wants to going into other Romance languages.

The sheer numbers of Chinese speaking Mandarin isn't really a good reason to say dump French and add Mandarin, because unless you deal with China on a regular basis and maybe some pockets of Vancouver and Toronto (in Canada), it won't get exercised that much. 



> In this day and age usa/russia/china etc dictate world affairs on world conflict
> Canadian military operations on a world stage...not likely


For the record, the two official languages in NATO are English and French. As far as military operations, they encompass more than just war. There are a number of conflicts in Africa involving former French colonies, as well as the usual Haiti disaster relief operations. We do send people to these operations and require a handle on French.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Re:Languages in the year 2015(the tech/social media/'world without boarders)
The tech sector has eliminated most of this
I could get you use technology products-which all world government do in all operations
i could get a french translation app off my i-phone buying a cheap app and have siri within half a minute repeat back in voice text what i just said today if i was in france 
This isnt 1980.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Switzerland seems to be doing well with multiple languages.


 I think Switzerland has 5 , but I doubt that on the planes they are doing all announcements in 5 languages :biggrin:

I personally prefer Spanish as my 4th languages.... learning it from time to time when driving using audiobooks 



> Part of me we love to see quebec become a independent nation


 agreed  They have different rules/laws from RoC for everything ...looks like they are going it on purpose  Especially ridiculous tax forms ... every Federal T form, has Releve analogue , also they have some specific releves like R26 or R7 ...
Our business wastes huge $$ on incorporating both languages...
P.S. it would be crazy to program/test apllication that have 5 different languages


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I have a cousin in the real estate sector in vancouver
He doesn't know a lick of mandarin
He has conducted clear conversations over media with both using translation software 
Both are more than comfortable using(under 35)
The youth are more comfortable conducting communication this way than face to face lol---likely not going to change
Who in their right mind would waste years in front of a teacher in a class
The days of a teacher standing in front of a chalk board is nye
give the tech world another couple years and we will attach a device to i phone or i watch or whatever and we will automatically be speaking any language(prob happened already)
Land based colonies are done
case in point we have never meet and live 1000 of kms away and we are interacting with each other and its not even thought of lol
land boarders mean little in commerce


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## The_Tosser (Oct 20, 2015)

gibor said:


> P.S. it would be crazy to program/test apllication that have 5 different languages


Just remember bro, if English was good enough for Jesus,........

lol

Wait, what?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

The_Tosser said:


> Just remember bro, if English was good enough for Jesus,........
> 
> lol
> 
> Wait, what?


Bro, I'm also fluent in Jesus language :biggrin:


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

gibor said:


> Bro, I'm also fluent in Jesus language :biggrin:


Hey, can you do that thing with the bread and the fish, of better yet, that water to wine one??
Those skills would be damned handy in a pinch  but meh, I can only assume they are lost in the mists of time :apathy:


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## investor65 (Aug 3, 2021)

Eder said:


> I think our society is in serious decay rather than entering a new age of enlightenment,not good, ask any Roman.


I agree. I believe western civilization is in big trouble.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

investor55 said:


> I agree. I believe western civilization is in big trouble.


This is a pretty common thing for older people to say


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

james4beach said:


> This is a pretty common thing for older people to say


You don't agree?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> This is a pretty common thing for older people to say


Because they can actually see problems in society?

We have a whole generation who's been told to protest and destroy is good.
There is a walkout planned at Western University friday, the administration supports it. 

The reason, "to raise awareness on sexual assault". 
This is despite the fact that of the 4 incidents reported, they're all being investigated.
The police are also investigating online anonymous reports of other events, even though no formal report was provided to police.

Exactly how is walking out from classes going to help?
You're sacrificing your education, for what? To tell people there is already a problem, a problem they ALL agree is a problem, and a problem they're working on.

It's like the PM showing up to protest the actions of his own government.

I'm okay with protests, but when are people actually going to get off their butts and DO SOMETHING.

Maybe instead of walking out, you report the issues and provide info to the police to help their investigation?
Maybe instead of protesting your own government, why not fix the problems.

yeah, "old people", like anyone with a clue, sees that endless protests, with no action isn't getting us anywhere.
Stop protesting so much, and go do the hard work of fixing things.
Go to class, get educated and FIX THE PROBLEM.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Nobody has come forward to lodge a complaint for the police to investigate.

All kinds of rumors on social media about assaults on 30 or more people at an event.

Personally, I think the kids are too young going off to university. We eliminated a full year of high school and send them off at age 17.

They get to university, get blitzed on alcohol when they are underage, and then are afraid to talk to the police.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Nobody has come forward to lodge a complaint for the police to investigate.


That's the point.
Nobody filed a complaint, but the police are still investigating because they're concerned.

So why the walkout, who's attention are they trying to get?
Maybe the potential victims should file a report?



> All kinds of rumors on social media about assaults on 30 or more people at an event.
> 
> Personally, I think the kids are too young going off to university. We eliminated a full year of high school and send them off at age 17.


I joined the army at 17.
I don't think it's too young, the same crap happened before ontario got rid of Grade 13/OAC. 
Many other jurisdictions dno't have a grade 13 anyway.



> They get to university, get blitzed on alcohol when they are underage, and then are afraid to talk to the police.


Yeah, young people do stupid things. Ever notice they seem to vote left leaning?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A young person at age 17 today isn't at the same maturity level of a young person at age 17.........years ago.

Kids today are coddled by their parents, never allowed to venture out on their own even to play with friends.

Parents try to plan out their kids future from the day they are born.

When was the last time you saw a group of kids playing baseball or soccer without a contingent of parents hanging around ?

If you let your kid go down to corner hockey rink to play by himself, other parents accuse you of bad parenting and "letting your kid run wild".

So we coddle them to protect them......and then send them off to university where they will meet older students and have a wide choice of bars and parties.

Some teens in university won't come forward because they were drinking underage and fear the consequences.

My grandfather was in the trenches of France ducking bullets and bayonets at age 16. Today the kids are playing Call of Duty on their XBox.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> When was the last time you saw a group of kids playing baseball or soccer without a contingent of parents hanging around ?
> 
> If you let your kid go down to corner hockey rink to play by himself, other parents accuse you of bad parenting and "letting your kid run wild".


No, they literally call the police or childrens aid.
It's important to note that childrens aid has nearly unlimited enter and seizure powers, and no liability.

If they want, they can walk into your house and take your kids away, and they have no duty to the parents, and no liability, even for negligence.

As much as they have basically unchecked power, they're also vastly underpaid and overworked. You don't want to be on the wrong side of them.

So yes, one of the scariest things is the possibility of someone calling the authorities on you.

Look at the reports, the stories are endless.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-mom-cfs-walk-around-corner-bakery-1.4880712



Imagine that, having an investigation because you let your kids walk to a building, while remaining in your sight.

I blame overzealous protection laws. that being said, there are still way too many cases of kids not being taken care of properly.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some people want every person accused presumed to be guilty. They don't support the presumption of innocence.

I think a good policy is........trust but verify. Trust what the women say but verify they are telling the truth.

Suggest that to some women rights advocates and you best prepare yourself for the incoming rage.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The Children's Aid needs to be reined in. They have way too much power and no oversight.


Good luck.
Nobody with kids wants to draw attention to themselves, and people without kids tend to not know/care.

Also, could you imagine the political fallout if any politician tried to campaign on "reigning in Childrens Aid".

Trying to control the problems at Childrens aid, would be about as politically toxic as taking measures to ensure women aren't being coerced into abortions they don't want. It's a political no go area.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Yeah, young people do stupid things. Ever notice they seem to vote left leaning?


Okay, that was funny. 😁


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## investor65 (Aug 3, 2021)

sags said:


> My grandfather was in the trenches of France ducking bullets and bayonets at age 16. Today the kids are playing Call of Duty on their XBox.


Let that sink. 
Each generation hasn't gotten better. They're getting worse. But I can't pin all the blame on them. They were brought into a world where technology is everywhere. They brains are getting fried from a young age with smartphones. I'm just shocked that parents would give these devices to kids as young as 5. 

I agree with your points about sending kids off to university in other cities. It's like sending kids into a lions den. Put 100 young people in a co-ed building and it's obvious what will happen.

I believe technology has many benefits. But on the whole, I believe the world is worse off in the last 25 years since the arrival of the internet. But that's a whole other thread.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> That's the point.
> Nobody filed a complaint, but the police are still investigating because they're concerned.
> 
> So why the walkout, who's attention are they trying to get?
> ...


In USSR we got only 10 grades (I graduated high school in 16), and I don't think our education was worse at all ! At age 21 I've got my Master degree from one of the best universities in our 1.5 M city


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> We have a whole generation who's been told to protest and destroy is good.


I agree, we have to put a stop to this dangerous right wing extremism form of thinking. They are trying to destroy our way of life.

All they do is launch dangerous protests, use violence against enemies, pass unjust laws, and silence people they disagree with. And once in a while they try to assassinate our elected politicians.

It's because the far right HATES our society. Right wing extremists truly are a threat to western civilization and our way of life.

I am sure that every older man on this board is committed to putting a stop to this dangerous trend. lol. Isn't that right @MrMatt @gibor365 @Eder


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I agree, we have to put a stop to this dangerous right wing extremism form of thinking. They are trying to destroy our way of life.


Yes, and the dangerous left wing extremism.



> All they do is launch dangerous protests, use violence against enemies, pass unjust laws, and silence people they disagree with. And once in a while they try to assassinate our elected politicians.


Absolutely, it's playing out in real time.



> It's because the far right HATES our society. Right wing extremists truly are a threat to western civilization and our way of life.


Yes, but so does the far left. They're actively trying to tear it down.



> I am sure that every older man on this board is committed to putting a stop to this dangerous trend. lol. Isn't that right @MrMatt @gibor365 @Eder


Absolutely, but the reality is that while most acknowledge the risk of far right extremism, many deny the threat the far left poses.
I'm concerned about extremists on both sides, but more so about the far left, because people don't see them as a real threat.

Even here, after watching violent protests unfold in the streets of Toronto, people don't seem to see the problem.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Absolutely, but the reality is that while most acknowledge the risk of far right extremism, many deny the threat the far left poses.


There is a loosely associated far left, that just about has no activity in the US & Canada. What are you complaining this far left has been up to, anyway?

Did they send bombs to ex presidents?
Did they *repeatedly* shoot up synagogues, churches, and mosques?
Did they assassinate the member of German parliament?
Did they assassinate the member of UK parliament?
Did they come armed to Ottawa and attack the PM's residence?
Did they massacre 77 teens and children for their cultural diversity?
Did they attempt to overthrow and storm the US Capitol?
Did they support an authoritarian wanna be dictator to overthrow the USA?

Oops nope, that was all the radical right wing. Because at least for the last 20 years, it's always been the right wing extremists that are causing the political violence and chaos in our nations.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> There is a loosely associated far left, that just about has no activity in the US & Canada. What are you complaining this far left has been up to, anyway?
> 
> Did they send bombs to ex presidents?
> Did they *repeatedly* shoot up synagogues, churches, and mosques?
> ...


So they are on the radar, but the guys who are also shooting up things, rioting, attacking parliament, and committing terrorist attacks on the left are ALSO a concern, one that people like you don't seem to take seriously.

I do take BOTH seriously, but the blind spot on left wing violence is what concerns me.
I'm not concerned about what "everyone" knows, I'm concerned about the things they don't think are a problem.

The fact that you say ALWAYS, shows how close minded you are. But at some level you know that it isn't just right wing violence, because you add the limitation "repeatedly" to shooting up churches etc, because you know that your always isn't as strong as you think.

Anyway, it's a waste, you are a left wing apologist. I denounce all political violence, but for some reason that upsets you.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> I do take BOTH seriously, but the blind spot on left wing violence is what concerns me


Really, what left wing violence are you talking about? You keep talking about this.

What is this fantasy 'left wing violence' that guys like you are so obsessed with? Give us real examples. Who have they shot? Who have they assassinated? And I mean in Canada / US / Europe.

The truth is that the only serious domestic terrorism, causing countless deaths, is -- for the last few years -- the far right extremists. For god sake man, they tried to murder members of Congress and tried to murder the Vice President. They've killed countless members of the public, assassinated government people in several countries.

The far right have murdered countless Jews, Muslims, black people, and hispanic people in the last few years. One can't even really keep track of it. Just a couple days ago a Texas man murdered his neighbour because they supported Democrats.

So the far right has killed hundreds of people. Where is the far left, and who have they killed?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Ultra left by far more dangerous to Western society than Ultra right. The best examples of it. terrorist group of Antifa and BLM.
Those ultra left support Islamic terrorist organizations who killed many thousands of people of all races and religion.
As a Jewish guy, I’ve never experienced any issues with ultra right , on the opposite European /US right and ultra right are the only organization that support Israel and Jewish people


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gibor365 said:


> As a Jewish guy, I’ve never experienced any issues with ultra right


Oh yeah the far right just loves Jews. Are you kidding me man? Where do you get these wacky ideas?

The far right massacred 4 people a synagogue in Poway, CA and 11 people killed in a synagogue in Pittsburgh. The Pittsburgh massacre was the deadliest attack on Jewish Americans in recent history.

Any sensible Jewish person would try to protect their people and call out these violent radical movements as a threat. And yet you just cover for them, apologize for the far right, and complain about unrelated, pointless groups that aren't even threats.

Will you ever step up and try to protect your people? The right wing extremists in the US have been massacring Jewish people. And you even praise Trump and the MAGA people, who are also full of anti-semitic tendencies. MAGA harbours literal neo-nazis.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

And how many Jews killed by Islamofashosts supported by leftt and ultra left?!



https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/13/rise-anti-semitism-left/



I_n December, the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights asked European Jews who was responsible for the most serious incident of anti-Semitic harassment they had experienced: *Only 13 percent said it was someone with a far-right political view, while 30 percent said it was an “extremist Muslim” and 21 percent said it was someone with left-wing views*.
The fact is anti-Semitism is a growing problem on the left. In Britain this year, three members of the Labour Party resigned after accusing the party and its leader, Jeremy Corbyn, of being — as a former Labour general secretary put it — “institutionally anti-Semitic.” In Washington, congressional Democrats have struggled to confront anti-Semitism within their own ranks. *Cywiński said the rise of left-wing anti-Semitism is not surprising. “Do not forget that the Nazi Party in Germany was a party of workers,*” he said. “We are many times thinking about the Nazis as far-right. They were also very deeply speaking … to the left, using some leftist language.”_

P.S. This is brutal to hear from anti-semitic what is better for Jews!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Let's look at 20th century! Ultra left killed HUNDREDS MILLIONS of people! Remebmer Lenin/Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot/Ieng Sari, Mussolini (Italian Socialist party), Hitler (national Socialist) etc


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

james4beach said:


> There is a loosely associated far left, that just about has no activity in the US & Canada. What are you complaining this far left has been up to, anyway?
> 
> Did they send bombs to ex presidents?
> Did they *repeatedly* shoot up synagogues, churches, and mosques?
> ...


They sent poison to sitting president
They burned churches
They shot up congressmen on baseball field
They did in fact assassinate member of German parliament
They hijacked a plane full of Israelis
They did kill former Italian prime minister, they did kill advisor to Berlusconi
They conducted bombing campaign against US government buildings, including Capitol
They did attempt school shootings, shooting in Dayton
They did attempt to bomb and shoot up ICE facility


There really is a lot of violence from both far right and far left. Ignoring one and not the other is willful blindness


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

damian13ster said:


> There really is a lot of violence from both far right and far left. Ignoring one and not the other is willful blindness


You're referencing events from as far back as 1976 and 1978. I'm talking about *the last couple of years*.

Time to take a cold hard look at reality, even though you have an extreme bias. The only significant violent threat in modern times are far right extremists.

The right wing just piles up the dead bodies. But I guess you and your buddy @MrMatt can rant and rave about 40 year old left wing terrorism. Talk about blindness!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Really, what left wing violence are you talking about? You keep talking about this.


That's my point, you have a blind spot here.
I've told you many times, I've linked to it, you acknowledge in your wording of your claims.
But then you suddenly forget about it.



> What is this fantasy 'left wing violence' that guys like you are so obsessed with? Give us real examples. Who have they shot? Who have they assassinated? And I mean in Canada / US / Europe.


Didn't you know about the riots across the US last year? 
Ever hear of Portland? They were attacking government buildings!
Many areas pulled back their police and let them do what they wanted, they didn't take them seriously.

The riots in Toronto this summer?
Trashing of statues? 

I'm not minimizing what others have done, we all know about it.
But there is a HUGE blind spot to the massive numbers of violent people out there, who are getting a free pass.

Of all the statues across Canada torn down, was anyone prosecuted or charged?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> You're referencing events from as far back as 1976 and 1978. I'm talking about *the last couple of years*.
> 
> Time to take a cold hard look at reality, even though you have an extreme bias. The only significant violent threat in modern times are far right extremists.
> 
> The right wing just piles up the dead bodies. But I guess you and your buddy @MrMatt can rant and rave about 40 year old left wing terrorism. Talk about blindness!


No, I'm talking about massive number of riots, across Canada and the US over the last 2 years.
They're burning down buildings, they're tearing down statues, they're burning down churches.
I DON'T CARE if you want to put a left/right label, that's irrelevant.

There are massive numbers of violent extremists that they're ignoring, that's the problem.
Even here, you seem to have forgotten about Portland, and we had lots of discussion.
The city and state politicians even gave the rioters a pass, and the Federal Government had to stop in.

They're basically endorsing political violence, if they agree with it. That's very dangerous. 
I'd say "look at history" but you're forgetting stuff that happened within the last 2 years..


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

james4beach said:


> You're referencing events from as far back as 1976 and 1978. I'm talking about *the last couple of years*.
> 
> Time to take a cold hard look at reality, even though you have an extreme bias. The only significant violent threat in modern times are far right extremists.
> 
> The right wing just piles up the dead bodies. But I guess you and your buddy @MrMatt can rant and rave about 40 year old left wing terrorism. Talk about blindness!


Yeah, some events are that far back. Some are from last year, some are from 2019, etc.
Left-wing violence existed since the beginning of time, it still exists, and it will continue to exist.
Right-wing violence existed since the beginning of time, it still exists, and it will continue to exist.

Covering your eyes and pretending only one of them exists is dishonest.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> Yeah, some events are that far back. Some are from last year, some are from 2019, etc.
> Left-wing violence existed since the beginning of time, it still exists, and it will continue to exist.
> Right-wing violence existed since the beginning of time, it still exists, and it will continue to exist.
> 
> Covering your eyes and pretending only one of them exists is dishonest.


The issue I see is that left wing terrorists aren't being prosecuted, and then the authorities fold to their demands.

Ryerson was the victim of domestic terrorism/political violence.
now rather than jailing the offenders, the school is getting what they want.
We are rewarding terrorists... if they have the right political views.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Questioning the positions of the Israeli government is not anti-semitism.

Statues honoring people who did bad things, should be removed as soon as we learn about those bad things they did.

We shouldn't have statues, parks or any public infrastructure named after people, because there is no need or upside to do so.

People from "the old country" should leave their grievances in the old country. 

Canadians aren't interesting in becoming involved in centuries old conflicts, that have nothing to do with Canada.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Really, what left wing violence are you talking about? You keep talking about this.


I know, and you keep minimizing it.
Portland riots were a good one, the local government encouraged the terrorists.
Ryerson riots, the officials in charged caved to their demands. Was anyone charged?

The problem is the tacit endorsement of left wing terrorism by those in power.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Statues honoring people who did bad things, should be removed as soon as we learn about those bad things they did.


Who's tearing down the George Floyd statue?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Who's tearing down the George Floyd statue?


John Smith, I think.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

It seems history shows leftist/socialist rule results in mass killing. Not hard to find examples today.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

n December, the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights asked European Jews who was responsible for the most serious incident of anti-Semitic harassment they had experienced: Only 13 percent said it was someone with a far-right political view, while 30 percent said it was an “extremist Muslim” and 21 percent said it was someone with left-wing views


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Of all the statues across Canada torn down, was anyone prosecuted or charged?


Ah, I see. So while the far right is gunning down people in synagogues and mosques (huge numbers of people killed), you think that a few people knocking over statues is at the same level.

You can't seriously think these two are comparable threats.



MrMatt said:


> Portland riots were a good one, the local government encouraged the terrorists.


Next time you pull out an example, try not to pick a city that I actually lived in, where I witnessed these things with my own eyes.

There weren't any left wing terrorists there. There WERE right wing terrorists who kept coming to the city with weapons to cause trouble. I even saw armed right wing militias arrive by busload, and march around in a "show of force" to intimidate the population.

*That's terrorism.*

There was another terrorist incident that actually affected me in Portland, and that was when another right wing extremist knifed two men to death on the commuter train that I routinely take, because they were defending a woman of colour. Stabbed them in the neck, killed both men.

The far right extremists and terrorists are out of control. They must be stopped before they kill again.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Ah, I see. So while the far right is gunning down people in synagogues and mosques (huge numbers of people killed), you think that a few people knocking over statues is at the same level.


No I don't. There you go attempting to equivocate.




> You can't seriously think these two are comparable threats.


You're right, I don't.
Thousands of people willing to commit violence, and politicians endorsing it is far scarier than a few nuts that EVERYBODY wants taken care of.



> Next time you pull out an example, try not to pick a city that I actually lived in, where I witnessed these things with my own eyes.


I remember, that's why I pulled that example.



> There weren't any left wing terrorists there.


Yeah, because police stations just burn themselves down?



> There WERE right wing terrorists who kept coming to the city with weapons to cause trouble. I even saw armed right wing militias arrive by busload, and march around in a "show of force" to intimidate the population.
> 
> *That's terrorism.*


Are you trying to say burning down a police station is the same as a non violent protest denouncing that behaviour.



> The far right extremists and terrorists are out of control. They must be stopped before they kill again.


Yes.

But the left wing terrorists are also out of control, and there are more of them. We need to keep an eye on them too, particularly as they escalate their levels of violence.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Yeah, because police stations just burn themselves down?


Sorry man, but black protesters who are angry at racist cops are not "left wing terrorists". This is much more of an ongoing US civil rights issue, similar to black people protesting at other points in time in the US.

Black people have been struggling to stand up for the rights in the US forever. The great majority of the black rights protests are peaceful.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Sorry man, but black protesters who are angry at racist cops are not "left wing terrorists". This is much more of an ongoing US civil rights issue, similar to black people protesting at other points in time in the US.
> 
> Black people have been struggling to stand up for the rights in the US forever. The great majority of the black rights protests are peaceful.


That's fine, and again, I support the right of peaceful protestors. 
Even when I disagree with them, like the antivaxx protestors, or abortion protestors. I respect their right to protest, even though I think they're wrong on the issue.
But violence is a no go.

I even understand that Portland has some of the highest differences in white/black police interactions.

But riots aren't acceptable, political violence must not be tolerated, and must be denounced for the evil that it is.
Just as abuse from police must not be tolerated.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium.HIGHLIGHT.MAGAZINE-can-marine-le-pen-win-the-hearts-and-minds-and-votes-of-french-jews-1.9674625


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