# Should I be stingy when purchasing a new security system?



## alex_mercer (Sep 18, 2017)

Hey, 

Ever since last week, I've been hearing noises around the neighbourhood especially when it gets dark. When someone is constantly lurking around and watching you, you've got to reciprocate, right? I decided I need to get a pair of ""eyes"" for myself and shortly after a bit of research on Google, I made a deal with this company called ADT Home Alarm Systems | Canadian Security Professionals Toronto, Ontario. I'm considering getting the GE Simon XT Wireless System following the recommendation of my friend. Firstly, I've never used a security alarm system. Secondly, I'm not sure if I should increase the budget and consider more advanced options which begs the question - *don't most standard security alarm systems already offer the optimal features?*

I'd rather stay away from those manufacturers who advertise using a long list of terms that are unheard of.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I was at a friends house once when a security salesman came to the door. He tried to sell my friend a security system. He noticed that my friend had two large dogs, but said they didn't make an "effective" security system because criminals would spray chemicals in their eyes. 

The funny part is, the salesman wouldn't come close enough to the house because of the dogs and had to basically shout. The dogs weren't even being aggressive.

Another friend of mine, who lives in the country, also has big dogs. No one gets out of the car if he's not around and they pull up to the house, not even the Mormons he says. 

In contrast to that, most of the buildings I have places in have security systems (cameras, special locks, tracking systems, random patrols, etc.) while it does lower the issues involving neighbourhood/tenant crime, it certainly doesn't stop it. One of my tenants has his vehicle broken into several times, even though it's parked in front of a camera. We had great video of it happening, gave it to the police, never heard anything ever again, and it happened again.

The buildings with random K9 security patrols, while better, aren't perfect either. 

I'm not saying dogs are the best solution, but security systems can provide a false sense of security.


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## alex_mercer (Sep 18, 2017)

> I'm not saying dogs are the best solution, but security systems can provide a false sense of security.


That was really insightful and also, made my day. :cheerful: I mean it really made me think about the concept of security systems.

Dogs monitor activity. Alarms monitor activity.
Dogs bark when triggered. Alarms make noises when triggered
Dogs love you. Alarms um, show you video footage.

I guess I'll have to add a new column in my excel sheet titled "big dogs" for comparison purposes.


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## Chica (Jan 19, 2016)

In the last house I owned I installed a security system. It was Brinks that eventually became ADT. The price kept going up and up. I probably wouldn't go with them again should I be in the market for a home alarm.

We had the front door, the kitchen door, and workshop door set up with the alarm keypad. The sliding door and the door between our living area and the basement suite, and the back door to the workshop were alarmed but not with a keypad. We didn't have any of the windows alarmed.

We had two big dogs and the motion sensor had to be set at a certain angle so it wouldn't pick them up walking around the house when we were out. That worked until rearranging the living furniture and the dog jumped up on the couch and the motion sensor caught it. The alarm monitoring phoned and we'd have to always ask was it the motion sensor activating the alarm and if it was, ignore it, and they could turn off the alarm and reset remotely. 

The most memorable thing was the fool who installed the alarm. He left the front door open while bringing the stuff inside the house and our dogs took that as an invitation to go walk about. Luckily I caught up with the dogs a block away before they got hit by a car or picked up by animal control. The jerk knew we had dogs, we introduced him to the dogs right away. If it was going to be more convenient for him to leave the door open to get his work done, all he had to do was let us know so we could secure the dogs in a bedroom or on the sundeck. I was not impressed, and let the salesrep know it when he called to ask how the install went.

Who was that man who was always doing commercials on TV for his alarm system? I haven't seen him in 3 or 4 years.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Maybe have a security system that makes sound of barking dog better yet virtual image of a few bull dogs


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

My spidey senses suggest that Alex, who has indicated he is a sales manager in Toronto, works for csp security professionals, in Toronto. The link wasn't really needed.

Regardless, I had a wireless alarm system installed in our house. Went with the cheapest, both install and monitoring. Wireless made it easy to protect our detached garage which is key as that's where a lot of break ins happen.
During construction, I had the builder run a bunch of cat5 cable to future camera locations. I assembled and am installing a PoE security camera set up. Right now there are 4 cameras recording to an NVR, but I have wires and locations for 8. The camera output is HD, very good quality day and night.

I would never buy anything from a door to door salesman. Especially anything security related.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We installed a system when we lived in Vancouver. It was a special deal, loss leader with a view to getting you to 'sign up'. Spoke with the installer. His advice was to add a second horn and forget about monitoring. The police take up to 15 minutes to respond. No joy there.

My sister, in Vancouver, had her home broken into twice. The RCMP officers recommendation: Forget monitoring and get yourself a dog. Plus....when you replace your stolen items don't put the empty boxes out for re-cycle where everyone can see them.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Have to agree with Ian on this. Response time is very slow so monitoring doesn't do much, esp if you are in the burbs.
Most breakins tend to be opportunistic, snatch and grab. 
If you have security company stickers, motion sensor lights, a beware of dog sign and large dog toy or dishes, keep your garage door closed and dont leave door openers in your car outside, and a very loud security 'horn' that might alert the neighbours you can save on monitoring and will likely prevent 95% of breakins. If you have a side door to garage, make sure it is alarmed as well or has an internal security bar.
Most thieves will simply move on to the next house.
A professional thief can disable most alarm systems so a monitoring system will not help much. Thankfully few real professionals out there.
The target for a lot of thieves today are delivered packages on doorsteps.


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## MrsPartridge (May 15, 2016)

How about getting security cameras that will send you video as soon as someone approaches your door? Then you answer via phone and ask "who is it and what they want?" They don't know you're not on the premises and assume you're home. 

I think you can get this with Rogers Home security. 

I just use a big dog. Big dog or ADT etc. just deters robbers. They move on to softer targets.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

I would suspect this would be expensive, both to set up, and monthly monitoring. I think it would work well except if you are in a meeting, power failure, on vacation etc and can't answer your phone.


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## alex_mercer (Sep 18, 2017)

I agree that guard dogs are economically viable but they can't be considered as immaterial objects. I would choose a security system even if I own a dog. After all, it protects the dog from burglars as well. From all the comments, I think I it would be a great idea to raise the budget a bit.



> My spidey senses suggest that Alex, who has indicated he is a sales manager in Toronto, works for csp security professionals, in Toronto. The link wasn't really needed


I don't think any sales manager would take up the work of his subordinates unless it's absolutely necessary. The link contained my doubt but now I've forgotten the contents in it. Cheers, mate :cat:


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## investigal (Aug 25, 2017)

Dogs are excellent deterrents! However, when people are away on vacation the dogs are usually kenneled or travelling with you, so an alarm system still makes sense.

In this day and age of home automation, security systems also come with new risks to consider. Depending on your trust and comfort level with technology, you may want to weigh the risk of hacking into the decision on the type of system to purchase.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Security systems always seemed expensive and a bit of an ongoing nuisance to me. 

Basically, I just want the bad guys to go next door and leave me alone, so if I can project the image that my house isn't a good idea to mess with, they will hopefully go elsewhere.

To this end, I have bars on all my basement windows, alarm stickers in all my house windows, front and rear door lights turn on once it's dark outside, heat and motion activated 300 watt spotlights in the front and rear yards. 

My neighbors don't appear to have these features. If I was a bad guy, I know who's house I would avoid, and whose I would target.

Monthly cost = zero.

ltr


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

The first place I owned with a security system was I house we purchased in Vancouver in 1991. It had a system installed by an outfit called "Grizzly Security". It had sensors on all exterior doors and windows. The control panel was in a closet near the front door. From the time a door or window was opened you had 60 seconds to go to the panel where there were 2 key slots. You had to turn a key in each one to make the orange light above it turn green. If you were slow, the light turned red and 2 very loud horns (one inside, one under the eaves outside) would detonate. 

The previous owner paid $25 or so a month for monitoring. We did not. One day we were slow and set the thing off. No big deal. Turn the keys and all was well. About 30 minutes later a security patrol car comes by and a guy comes to the door. I explained. I had no idea the thing was still being monitored. Soon I get a call from the security company. In no short order they tell me to pay up for monitoring or "we'll have to come and remove the system"! Yeah, right. They were going to rip out a system the previous owner probably paid a couple of grand to install. I suggested they not try, because I was not party to a contract that gave them any such right and I would not consent to them entering on our land or building. So any effort to repossess would amount to a trespass. Never heard from them again.


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## alex_mercer (Sep 18, 2017)

> To this end, I have bars on all my basement windows, alarm stickers in all my house windows, front and rear door lights turn on once it's dark outside, heat and motion activated 300 watt spotlights in the front and rear yards.


Quite smart! Maybe I should try that and scrap the idea of an integrated security system.


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## alex_mercer (Sep 18, 2017)

> If you were slow, the light turned red and 2 very loud horns (one inside, one under the eaves outside) would detonate.


I would certainly not want to smash the alarm system like an alarm clock.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Stingy and just as effective as your most sofisticated alarm system:
- plaster your windows and doors with security system stickers
- keep your blinds closed
- don't flaunt (applies to your garbage too - destroy that 80 inch TV box you just got before throwing)
- use proper lighting
- make sure all locks are in place and functional
- keep shrubs away from all ground windows

Unless the security system can actually capture the intruder, its pretty useless.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I personally always liked the magnavolt system...

https://youtu.be/uRNVxHPJ0hM


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Security systems are very lucrative for ADT and the other door-to-door sellers. They put in a basic system for "free" and then lock you into a long monitoring contract at exorbitant rates. It is possible to contract monitoring on a month-to-month basis for much less than the ADT contract rates. If you think you want a security system, I would advise you to:

(1) calculate the total cost of the contract period from whoever is trying to sell you one
(2) look up security companies in the area that will do month-to-month monitoring and ask them about installation costs; compare TCO.
(3) do not trust door-to-door sellers of these things like ADT. They really do prey on your fears and live by long lucrative contracts.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Check out the recently announced Nest security devices 

All these other systems look like Motorola flip phones from the '90s by comparison

Don't waste your $$ on monthly fees


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Mukhang pera said:


> The previous owner paid $25 or so a month for monitoring.


The problem with inheriting a system is that it is often password/code locked to the company that put it in. When we bought our current house the prior owner had installed an ADT system. There was no contract in force for us, but ADT pestered us quite a bit to sign a new monitoring contract. The system itself was set up with an "installer code" that prevented us from controlling it properly or transferring monitoring to another company. It took several weeks of emails back and forth to establish that we actually owned the system and that we were entitled to control it on our own. They eventually sent a guy to change the installer code to something they would tell us and let us have control of it, but they did


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

My security / home automation system is all DIY. Check out this place - it's where I got a lot of the 'bits'...... https://www.aartech.ca/choosing-an-alarm-system.html


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## boingboing (Jul 5, 2017)

I guess it depends on where you live in Canada. Here in London and Waterloo i and many of my neighbors have a habit of never even locking our front doors and leaving our backdoors even wide open (with a mosqiuito net). It's been such a habit with me that when i am at other friends places not in my city i keep forgetting to close/lock doors. To me, security systems aren't worth having, but if needed i would keep it cheap and over time if one feels they like it then begin to improve by adding new enhancements


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