# Quicken 2017 and their new subscription model - avoid or proceed with caution.



## P_I

For anyone considering Quicken 2017, they have which moved to a subscription service model rather than the previous outright purchase model with a sunset of online services after three years. So ... 

Caveat emptor...[SUP]*[/SUP]

Quicken Canada Order Questions [my bold]


> *Q.* What happens to the program when access to Quicken Connected Services ends?
> *A.* You'll no longer have access to connected services, like the ability to download banking transactions or investment quotes, mobile access, or premium care. While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, *or add manual transactions.*


The $90/year subscription fee is a cash grab. I can understand that even if I don't like it. But this is extortion. 

Under the old model if you didn't want to upgrade you could continue to use Quicken manually. Under this model your use of the product ends completely. It effectively becomes a read-only snapshot of your data as of the date of expiration. This breaks the trust between Quicken and its user base. 

This is completely unacceptable.

By subscribing to this new model you also consent to this new extortion racket. When you upgrade to 2017 your data gets converted. You can't go back. So in 2018 you can't go back to an earlier version like 2016 or 2015 and manually update your data. 

Think long and hard before you pull the trigger on Q2017.

If you want to express your opposition to Quicken's new subscription model, there are at least two threads in Quicken's own support forum:
• Quicken Canada product page needs to explain what happens if the person stops paying for the subscription
• Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying

[SUP]* Reposting here from another forum with permission of the OP.[/SUP]


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## pwm

That stinks! I've used Quicken since 1991 and my current 2009 version will have to suffice from now on. I'll never submit to that kind of extortion. If it ever stops working I'll have to convert to something else.


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## bobsyouruncle

Software companies are following the Adobe cloud-based model.

It's purely a business decision. 

I don't like it either.


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## KevinWaterloo

bobsyouruncle said:


> Software companies are following the Adobe cloud-based model.
> 
> It's purely a business decision.
> 
> I don't like it either.


Diddo. I wouldn't object so much if the rate was fair, but $90/year is crazy. $30-40 would be okay with me.
I moved from MS Money to Quicken a few years ago and haven't been that impressed. The software is very slow even with a large database even on a fast machine. 

Looks like I'll be sticking with my 2015 Quicken indefinitely. sigh.


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## like_to_retire

The subscription service model appears to be where a lot of software is headed unfortunately.

Microsoft Office is an example of this with the introduction of subscription based Office 365 - and it ain't cheap either. Microsoft has been deceptive about their intentions here by continuing to offer the buy-once Office 2016 program while also offering the new Office 365 subscription. I fear that Office 2016 may be the last time we'll see a buy-once program offered and that Office 365 will be the only model they provide.

From a business standpoint, I suppose companies prefer a somewhat steady predictable cash flow of a subscription service, rather than writing a program for a few years and then releasing it with the resulting large inflow of cash that peters away until they're ready to offer a new version.

ltr


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## pwm

Yes. I understand the subscription model is the direction companies are going, but to convert your data and then hold you hostage is another matter entirely.


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## P_I

The subscription model seems more geared to business software. What we're seeing is companies that serve the personal consumer market trying to figure out how to adapt the model. But there's a key difference, personal users actually see the cost of the subscription as opposed to generally only the IT and finance folk seeing it in a business environment. Plus as software matures, the incremental features added generally become so small that it isn't worth the cost to upgrade. 

But that's the catch-22, if Quicken can't get me to upgrade, they don't get any further revenue from me. For a software product like Quicken that I use regularly, the subscription aspect doesn't bother assuming reasonable pricing. I don't deem the current Quicken 2017 offering reasonable pricing. But IMHO the most important part is what happens if/when the subscription ends. *Eliminating my ability to manually enter transactions is a non-starter for me. It essentially renders the software useless.* 

FWIW, I've also messaged my financial institution as I believe they've got an interest in this as well. Canadian financial institutions have been making a big push into paperless and online banking, but a key component is they provide a means for me to download my transactions into a software program. Given that Quicken dominates this market, I'm hopeful that my financial institution can see the light and weigh in with Quicken on the impact their approach might have on the financial institutions ability to continue to push forward with online banking and paperless.


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## Userkare

I use GNUCash... absolutely free! It can import QIF and OFX format files, but I don't see that it connects directly to the bank ( maybe a good thing that it doesn't? ).

I use it for personal budget, but there are features for businesses as well.


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## bgc_fan

Userkare said:


> I use GNUCash... absolutely free! It can import QIF and OFX format files, but I don't see that it connects directly to the bank ( maybe a good thing that it doesn't? ).
> 
> I use it for personal budget, but there are features for businesses as well.


Not that I've used the feature, but don't banks have the option to export to QIF type formats which then can be imported into GNUCash?


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## P_I

Seems the media might have been tipped off. Thanks :anonymous: Bylo :anonymous:

*Quicken shifts to software subscription model, but there's a big catch*


> But the idea that they could not continue to track finances by manually entering transactions fueled push-back from Quicken customers.
> 
> "If the subscription isn't renewed, manual access and updates to the data need to be allowed, otherwise the company will be perceived to be holding the customer's data hostage," argued Dan Glynhampton in a message posted to a Quicken support forum.
> 
> "Quicken is supposed to help me manage my finances, not prevent me from managing my finances," added mshiggins on the same thread.
> 
> When a Quicken representative intervened on the forum to say that the only real difference between a subscription and the older licensed software is "that manual transactions can't be added" when the former expires, users were quick to respond.
> 
> "If at the point the subscription ends my data essentially becomes frozen in time then that makes the program absolutely useless to me," asserted Perculiar_Investor.


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## CalgaryPotato

Like it or hate it, software companies can't stay alive without switching to subscription models. The whole idea that you can buy software once and then keep getting updates for it for years for one price isn't really fair to the company making the software.


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## balexis

Software companies already offer for-charge support for customers who want software updates and tech support. No one expects unlimited major updates to a product that is paid for only once, of course no business would survive unless they charged an enormous one-time fee.


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## Brainer

You might want to take a close look at KMyMoney. Very powerful. It's also free. I don't know if it does everything Quicken does, but I'm guessing it's close. 

Screenshots
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

Home page
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/index-home.html

Runs on Windows, Mac, Linux and FreeBSD.


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## Mookie

My last Quicken upgrade was to the 2007 version. Even at the time, there were no real compelling reasons to upgrade, other than for maybe a bit nicer user interface. Since then I've seen no real reason to upgrade further, and after reading the above, looks like I'll be sticking with Quicken 2007 for as long as technically possible.


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## P_I

While you can still vote, the Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying topic is now closed and marked "Under Consideration". So far there are 176 votes. 



Quicken Kathryn said:


> Official Response
> Hi All,
> 
> Thank you very much for your input and feedback. It’s looking like all of the points on this issue have been exhausted in this thread, so I will mark this Idea as “Under Consideration” and close the thread for now. I know a lot of folks are looking for a ‘final’ answer on the points raised here, and those answers will come, but any decisions made on product features, function, or pricing will take some time and review. We’ll update this thread whenever new information is available.
> 
> We’ve also updated the Quicken Canada Order Questions FAQ in order to clarify what happens when the subscription ends:
> 
> You’ll still be able to access, view, and export all of your financial data. You will never be blocked from accessing your financial history. However, Quicken will switch to a reduced functionality mode. In this mode, some features may be limited or unavailable. For example:
> 
> 
> You can open existing data files and see all your existing data
> You can view, edit, and delete existing transactions—including attachments.
> You can create, run, print, and save reports.
> You can export your data, make or restore a backup, and make a copy of a file.
> You cannot access any Connected Services such as bank downloads, stock quotes, online bill pay, bill linking, credit score, or mobile sync.
> You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry.
> You can continue to vote for this idea using the voting buttons at the top of this page, and follow this thread if you’d like further updates.


There has been some movement from Quicken based on the feedback and votes so far, but for me that last point, *You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry* is still a non-starter for me to consider ever upgrading my Quicken software again.


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## pwm

Agreed. My Q2009 version will be my last. It's running fine under Win10 so it should last for a few more years using manual update. If and when it stops working, I'll move to something else. Who knows, it may last longer than I will.


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## MrMatt

There are other options, I use Moneydance.
It's cross platform, not too expensive and pretty good.

I used to use GNUcash, but that was many years ago, it's GPL so it will always be free.


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## m3s

MrMatt said:


> There are other options, I use Moneydance.
> It's cross platform, not too expensive and pretty good.


Moneydance looks very interesting. I might give that a try!



> For personal use, people who use Moneydance should buy one license per household, no matter how many computers you install it on, operating systems you use, people who use Moneydance, or data files you create.


I'm happy to pay a reasonable price for software that I use a lot. I programmed in school so I know the work involved to produce and maintain smooth running software. I already pay a fair bit for software and computer services every year

Quicken has been making me more weary every year. They seem focused on adding irrelevant fancy gimmicks rather than sorting out the core functions and stability of the software. I recently "acquired" Quicken 2016 to try it on a brand new Windows 10 machine and it already had to be restarted several times just to get logged in and running. This is a brand new PC built for video editing. Quicken is known to freqently freeze and crash.

Ideally I should build a Google Spreadsheet using the Google Finance functions like I have been saying for years. Then I could log in from anywhere on any platform with ease. It would be a lot of work to setup but I see many tutorials and templates online


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## grahamdouglass

*Replacement for quicken*

I've been using Quicken since 1991 and the new model sucks. I presently have Quicken 2014, quote update will expire at the end of March or May, I am not too sure. I manully input transactions but I want to update my stock portfolios. What financial tracking programs good replacements for Quicken.
They must 1. Read QIF files to be able to transfer all Quicken data, stock, chequing transactions, catagories and tags.
2. Update stock prices
3. The ability to produce good reports on spending 
4. A bonus would be better tax capability with Candadian taxes. eg If you hold a security in an RRSP or TSFA a general income report could be generated that would relflect the 
non taxability in those accounts.

I have seen many programs mentioned, what programs are good for a replacement.


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## fireseeker

MrMatt said:


> There are other options, I use Moneydance.
> It's cross platform, not too expensive and pretty good.


MrMatt, are you able to download OFX or QFX files into Moneydance from your discount broker?
I am trying to find a way of doing that with BMOIL, but so far I have struck out.


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## BC Eddie

I have now used Moneydance for about two years after using Quicken since 1995. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve but I got over it and don't miss Quicken especially its payment model.

To answer your question: You can import Quicken format files directly (I do for credit card trans) but my investment house does not provide QFX format only txt so I convert from txt to csv files and import using a free add-on tool that works with Moneydance.

Moneydance allows use of pkg for some time with a full refund to see if you can live with it.


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## MrMatt

BC Eddie said:


> I have now used Moneydance for about two years after using Quicken since 1995. Yes there is a bit of a learning curve but I got over it and don't miss Quicken especially its payment model.
> 
> To answer your question: You can import Quicken format files directly (I do for credit card trans) but my investment house does not provide QFX format only txt so I convert from txt to csv files and import using a free add-on tool that works with Moneydance.
> 
> Moneydance allows use of pkg for some time with a full refund to see if you can live with it.


Big fan of Moneydance, it's cross platform as well.
Nice thing is they offer upgrade discounts quite regularly, if you buy shortly before a new release, they'll give a free or very heavily discounted upgrade.


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## fireseeker

MrMatt said:


> Big fan of Moneydance, it's cross platform as well.
> Nice thing is they offer upgrade discounts quite regularly, if you buy shortly before a new release, they'll give a free or very heavily discounted upgrade.


Perhaps a dumb question, but does Moneydance automatically fetch and update values for stock symbols?
If so, what is the prefix/suffix convention for US vs Cdn?


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## BC Eddie

fireseeker said:


> Perhaps a dumb question, but does Moneydance automatically fetch and update values for stock symbols?
> If so, what is the prefix/suffix convention for US vs Cdn?


I personally don't use it, because I prefer to import the quotes specific to my holdings from my investment house, however there are free addins that will download quotes. Sorry I ca't provide more specific info on the capabilities.

This is the support site for Moneydance. Perhaps this will help.

https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/...tes-vs-download-quotes-and-exchange-rates-now


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## m3s

I have over 10 years of data in Quicken and tried to import to moneydance awhile ago

Now that Quicken is forcing people to the subscription model, google sheet alternatives are popping up like this

I would subscribe to Quicken if it didn't have so many issues itself


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## MrMatt

fireseeker said:


> Perhaps a dumb question, but does Moneydance automatically fetch and update values for stock symbols?
> If so, what is the prefix/suffix convention for US vs Cdn?


Yes it does, you have to configure them correctly, and the configuration changes.
For a while the data source was down, but it's up now.

You have to specify the currency and the exchange that you want to use for a specific security.


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