# Means to an end?



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I've been thinking about my job for a bit, and while there are great things associated with it, I often find myself dreaming about a better day. I'm sure you've been there, done that, for many CMF members or you are working towards a better day like I am.

I wonder how you feel about your career - past, present and future. Do you see your career as a means to an end and a happy one at that?


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> I've been thinking about my job for a bit, and while there are great things associated with it, I often find myself dreaming about a better day. I'm sure you've been there, done that, for many CMF members or you are working towards a better day like I am.
> 
> I wonder how you feel about your career - past, present and future. Do you see your career as a means to an end and a happy one at that?


Currently I am reasonably satisfied with my current job. I work in a great place and with great people, but I live in a horrible city. I am 25 and the company I work for has a great reputation but it is also a non profit organisation. So the pay is less than it could be. 
I hope to move into the public sector so that I can get 20-25 years of pension on my side and retire early. I am doing a lot of planning to help me reach my long term goals so that I can have those better days.
I would like to retire a fair bit before 65 and I think that I should be able fairly comfortable with the combination of RRSP, TFSA Gov Pension and CPP.

I do very much look forward to the days when I do not need to work.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I was 18 and started an apprenticeship as a mechanic,in 78 was not a lot of choice

Over all these years I have repaired a lot of cars,trucks,snowblowers and lots of internal combustion engines

Have meet a lot of good people,driven every car and truck on the road

Been part of the change of points and carbs to ecu`s and fuel injection

In my retirement I will build some thing ,have many tool and a large garage

Would not change any of it,save a lot of cash on my own vehicles,all my cars purchased at dealer auctions 

Never out of work and the demand is growing a lot,not enough mechanics in canada big shortage


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I've always loved what I do, meaning the physical act of my work- I've been a bartender for 30 years and it's an amazing job if you're good and you're in the right place. There have been many things over the years that I have had personal issues with, like a55hole owners with no clue what they are doing, snotty greedy coworkers, and abusive drunks, but it's allowed me an incredible amount of freedom over the years and I've met an unbelievable amount of people and have a million stories.

Now I'm in management in a very specific type of organization, with excellent benefits and a very well-chosen team. The good thing about it is that I get to use all the fun, high-energy stuff from being a bartender in a young party demographic, but also use creativity to consistently grow and tweak the business and apply upper management skills to run everything as it should be.

I have struggled occasionally with my lot in life- and sometimes have agonized over 'what to do with my life'- I missed the chance when younger to go into the sciences or medicine like I could have- but then I realize that if I had, I wouldn't have been able to do things along the way like play in bands, move to the tropics, backpack Europe for months on end over and over, etc. It hasn't always been easy and I've had long periods of difficulty, but I've now realized that as long as I earn enough to keep paying myself first and am in a position to call most of the shots, that it's as good a vocation as any and better than most. And financially I've done well with my relatively modest income, despite blowing huge amounts on ridiculously long and complicated trips, guitars, camera gear, (and partying when younger).

EDIT- to further answer part of your question, I used to work to finance my music ambitions, then it was to travel as much as possible, now it's to pay off a condo so that when I retire I'll have somewhere to leave my stuff while I do travel photography. Essentially my life has been and will always be about exploring, physically and intellectually. I'd love to have a kid but I guess first I'd have to get a date... I was married for a couple of years but it was a bad scene (she was an alcoholic) and now I doubt I'll meet someone that's a good fit. So I live for my own experience until or if I meet someone- I go on a lot of crazy adventures. I don't regret much except not being smarter with money when I was in my 20's and not sending more serious time on music.

None of knows what the next five seconds will bring, never mind the next ten years; you could pop an aneurysm before you click the next link. Enjoy where you are because that's all any of us ever really have. Only you can know if your vocation is a good it. Plan for tomorrow but live for today.


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## Rysto (Nov 22, 2010)

I was told by a senior software architect at my company that my work generates no value for the company. Those won't his exact words of course, but that was the gist of it.

Needless to say, I'm updating my resume tonight.


It's too bad; I really enjoy the job and it's a good company, but it's been becoming clearer and clearer that I need to move on to a company that values my skills.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Past present and future, I'll give you a bit of my life story.
Came from a kind of poor family, they put me in french so i could get a government job, didnt really learn either language very well  parents divorced when I was 12, mom took me out of hockey, and put me into curling

I started at age 16 working part time at the Winnipeg Arena, serving hot dogs.. when I hit 18 I worked pouring beer with my mom, good tips!
Also worked part time the holiday inn pool attendant. Saved every penny from those small gigs
When I hit 18-19 I started at Costco, working part time while I attended University for Kinesiology (cash flowed never had student loans). First as a cashier helper, then the parking lot, then the door greeter. Started Canada Post at 20-21 or so... Casual on call relief. Quit my other 3 jobs and got my degree at 21-22-23 or so when I got officially perm at Canada Post. 1 year later bought a house with all my savings!

Arena was good wish I still did the beer gig.
Holiday inn pool was super easy, but min wage and weekend/evenings only
Costco was pretty awesome pushing carts in the parking lot... a lot of us complained we werent getting enough hours, I was complaining of too many hours with all my jobs  It was difficult balancing things. But I felt the strongest in my life, working out at the university gym, heading over to push carts at Costco, then going home and eating chocolate almonds and playing video games 
They also had 50% RRSP matching up to $1000/year and they automatically added like $30 a pay or something(of which I used for home buyers). Good and bad like all jobs though, they wanted me to quit my other jobs so I could focus more on them.

Canada Post started out amazing!!! Walking around, I don't mind the cold so much, some days finish at 1pm, on bad days 5pm. I also loved doing overtime which was and still is available everyday. Then "Modern Post" or "Postal Transformation" started. They gave us cars, and doubled our workload. Machines sort our mail now, plus they deleted the parcel driver job and gave the parcels to the letter carriers. 2 hours of prep + 4-5 hours of walking .... turned into still 2 hours of prep(load parcels, etc) but now 6-7 hours of walking. Which still I run half marathons, walking is nothing... but the way they force us to carrier different bundles of mail... 3 bundles.. 1flyers 1machine letter 1 non-machineable///hand sort.... so juggling 3 bundles it just too painful, my brother, me and half the other employees I talk to all have pain in our forearms now. and our backs. And don't even get me started on how our supervisors suspend us for small things like not having our seat belt on at the loading dock, or "casing our machine mail"(making into 1 bundle), scanner difficulties, etc... and the way they treat injured or pregnant employees now... bring them in for 1 hour, send them home for 70% pay, etc.. forget it... I could go on and on.... but if you actually read all that, you could guess with the changes I'm not happy.

So I am going back to school for Massage, during my Kin degree I enjoyed that class, and although I don't plan to make over 60k a year as a masseuse, I am like your saying, working the grind now to pay off my house (its 50%) and hoping to do a couple massages a day in the future to pay for food//power and maybe some small trips.... so looking forward to change, 25% of the way done massage school, just hoping I'll get my letter to go part time in the plant so I can free up my mornings to tackle the school! I'm 27 now ~13k in stocks 150k(of 300) in house ~5k cash probably over 20k in pension as well.... 
learning lots, and right now glad I don't have a ton in oil 

and my massage hands I can take anywhere, maybe one day I'll up and move and live somewhere else!


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I started out loving my career. I was in IT and I loved all the problem-solving and helping people with issues. Then they outsourced half the department, and the only jobs left were "governance" which means making sure that the outsourced work is being done properly, designing policies and processes, etc. It got worse and worse over the years until now I hate it. 

So I quit today. I'm planning now on semi-retirement, moving out of Toronto to a smaller town and finding something more fulfilling to do. I'm 42, I worked there for 17 years, and I'm ready to move on.


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## AudiS4 (Sep 11, 2013)

I think about this stuff all the time. To answer the question I'd have to define what the end is, that isn't really nailed down for me. Right now my only desire is to provide the best life for my wife and son that I can. I guess that will always be the high level goal, but maybe later I'll value travel, or free time more, or maybe even enjoy work more than I do now. More money seems to help everything. My career is a responsibility and something I feel I owe to the people who I want to provide for, it is not optional, I wouldn't decrease my income for my own personal satisfaction, unless financial obligations to family were met first.


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## jaybee (Nov 28, 2014)

Great question. I started out with a pretty good job right out of school that I really liked. I impressed my supervisors to the point that I was over promoted into a role I was neither qualified for nor ready for. I was in way over my head, and the stress levels spun me into a deep dark depression to the point that one day I just woke up and decided that I was going to quit. I had nothing else to fall back on. I just quit. After a couple of months of unemployment I landed a job with a growing software company. I hated that job too. I was mostly doing technical support for rude Americans. I thought that I would never find a job that "didn't hate" let alone enjoy. Needless to say I was constantly in search of a new job until I was offered a 2 year term in the Public Sector. Even though my wife was six months pregnant at the time - I left what was perceived to be a glamorous job with a large international publicly traded IT firm for a two year contract government job. I took a pay cut to boot.

People thought I was crazy at the time, but it was the smartest decision I have ever made. After one year into the first year of the contract I was made permanent as the person I was backfilling for gave notice that he would not be returning from educational leave. After two years my salary was back to what I left behind in the private sector, and I couldn't be happier. Great benefits, defined benefit pension plan, meaningful work, great co-workers, and work life balance.

So yes, a job is a means to an end, but life is too short to spend half of your waking hours doing something that makes you miserable.


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## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

Yes, I see my career as a means to an end. I look forward to the day when I am financially independent, and can spend my days doing what I want. That may mean doing some part time work, some free photography for low income families, some travel, or whatever else I desire. But it will be on my own terms. But I also don't believe in being miserable today to get there. I recently took a pay cut in order to get out of a toxic workplace, and so far I am enjoying my new job. I hope it is the last job change I will ever have to make. It will take me a little longer to reach my goal of financial independence, but life will be better in the meantime.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Great comments everyone....nice to read your stories.

Yes indexxx, nobody knows what the future will bring, but at the same time, I think I need to play a more active role in my future, in terms of my career. In recent years, I've recognized I've been too passive; go in, do my job to the best of my ability and go home. What I am realizing is, that is not making me happy career-wise. I want to have passion again for my work.

Which brings me to Rysto's comment:

I asked my manager recently if I was meeting his expectations, his response, "I think so". Without little feedback on my job over the last 1.5 years, I too feel my work generates little value for the company; although I know it does. Very demotivating. I don't want to be around people like this.

@Shea, wow, great reply. It sounds like you're focused and that's a great mindset to be in 

@Spudd, really? "So I quit today. I'm planning now on semi-retirement, moving out of Toronto to a smaller town and finding something more fulfilling to do. I'm 42, I worked there for 17 years, and I'm ready to move on."

I'm not ready to quit, but there are certainly days my wife and I talk about whereby we want to find "something more fulfilling to do."

@Audi, your priorities seem in the right place...

@Jaybee..."a job is a means to an end, but life is too short to spend half of your waking hours doing something that makes you miserable."

I suppose it would be nice to feel more valued. Sounds lame, but true.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

@MOA, maybe look for a new role in the same company? If your current immediate manager is uninspiring, is the whole company that way, or is it just the individual in question who's dragging you down? How about the work itself, do you like it? Honestly I think to be truly happy in a job you need both - to like the work and to feel valued. Over the past few years I felt very valued - was always top-rated, my boss constantly told me how happy he was with my work, when I told him I was thinking of leaving he gave me a raise and told me nobody wants me to leave. But since I hated the work with a hot fiery passion, it still wasn't enough. And I think the opposite is probably true, although maybe not to the same degree. 

And yes, it feels crazy, but it happened! It's not finalized yet, I'm waiting for my boss to come back to me to finalize when my last day will be and then I'll submit the official resignation letter. We have a nice chunk of savings and I'll have a DB pension at 55 or 60 (TBD if I'll decide to take it early with reduced amount or wait till 60 for full pension). I don't know if it's enough to live on forever without earning anything, but we won't need to earn much at least. So we can do what strikes our fancy instead of worry about how much it pays.


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

I find in companies especially those of smaller size you can often get stuck under direct supervisors that maybe aren't as dynamic as you want them to be. Not feeling appreciated is part of working, I'm sure everyone's felt that way at many points. I work in consulting and our project deadlines are often unrealistic from the clients but good work gets you more work so we just suck it up and get the work done as best we can in the time frames. It's work that doesn't affect the managers, they go home each night, same time, attend the client thank you lunches and dinners, get bonuses for new business, meeting timelines etc. We do the grunt work, miss dinners, leave town, live in hotels, start early, stay late etc. Most days it's work as usual but occasionally they'll thank us for the good work. Small consolation but it's part of work. Do your time, move up, and remember the experiences, be valuable to them and occasionally remind them of it : )


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> Great comments everyone....nice to read your stories.
> 
> Yes indexxx, nobody knows what the future will bring, but at the same time, I think I need to play a more active role in my future, in terms of my career. In recent years, I've recognized I've been too passive; go in, do my job to the best of my ability and go home. What I am realizing is, that is not making me happy career-wise. I want to have passion again for my work.


Being happy with your job/work is important IMO and, if possible, try to find a job that you're not just pulling a 9-5 routine for the sake of making ends meet. Also, it will likely become more difficult to keep oneself challenged if one stays in the same position or field for many years. It's a tough call to make, leaving what you know for something you don't in the hope the grass is greener on the other side.



My Own Advisor said:


> I asked my manager recently if I was meeting his expectations, his response, "I think so". Without little feedback on my job over the last 1.5 years, I too feel my work generates little value for the company; although I know it does. Very demotivating. I don't want to be around people like this.


One thing I've come to realize over the years is typical manager feedback is of little importance to me. This of course depends on the manager, do they really understand my job or what I do? If they don't understand, I place very little weight on their feedback but do place more if they are within my work peer group and know what's going on. While it is generally nice to get a pat on the back my main motivation comes from within.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm not sure my job pays enough to be considered a "means"... lol.

But I do know one thing... no amount of a raise is enough when you can't stand your job.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

@Cainvest,
" It's a tough call to make, leaving what you know for something you don't in the hope the grass is greener on the other side."

This is the crossroads right now. I think in 2015 I'll be looking for a new job.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I like my job(business)I come from a very entrepreneurial family,nearly all of my dad's family own trade businesses(trades run in our bloodline)
In a sense i was lucky because my father/uncle and grandfather had a successful custom home building company for many years and they sold it when my dad was in his 40's(he took a early retirement,but than took a job with my uncle doing estimating/consulting for his carpentry/roofing/framing company)and at that same time i was just entering adulthood(18)and apprenticed under my uncle(actually 2 uncles)like i said family business.
At 26 i started my own company and my father joined me,i will be celebrating my 10 yr anniversary of my company in 2015.
Been a ton of ups and downs but i wouldn't trade being a business owner for anything.I have a lot of pride in what i do and i have fosters some rewarding relationships with some clients over the years(also suppliers)
We are not a large company and only employ a few guys and sub out other work but i guess it is very typical of a statistical small business owner in canada.
I am def not making millions but i do earn a above average income and obviously have perks from being incorporated.
I would love to have this business long term and eventually maybe just take a % fee and have it run by itself(tricky but manageable)
I will admit though,not having anything to fall back on(pension)do play with me sometime but all in all i wouldn't trade what i have(i would like to retire in 15 yrs at age age 50 from full time)


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> I've been thinking about my job for a bit, and while there are great things associated with it, I often find myself dreaming about a better day. I'm sure you've been there, done that, for many CMF members or you are working towards a better day like I am.
> 
> I wonder how you feel about your career - past, present and future. Do you see your career as a means to an end and a happy one at that?



I very much viewed my job as a means to an end from my first day after looking at the pension & vacation time.
Mostly it was satisfying for over 30 years, like any job it had its share of ups and downs.
Changes in management and policies are going to have a major impact that can last anywhere from a few months to a few years.
I always tended to look at the big picture and stay focused on the end game. 

There were times along the way when I thought about all the other things I could be doing kind of like that old saying the Grass is always greener on the other side. 

Have been retired now for 4.5 years and don't regret anything.


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

If you're a member of a professional organization of any kind you are likely able to get regular job postings to your inbox as well. I count myself lucky being in this group and in a city/province where jobs aren't hard to come by. I have applied on a few jobs while stewing away at my current one. I also had to turn down a great career move in another city for my wife's sake which was a hard pill to swallow but it was for the best ultimately (or I keep trying to convince myself...). I'm a fate believer too, that helps me.


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

When I started out in the hotel industry I was genuinely curious about the business and motivated to climb the corporate ladder. I read every business book I could get my hands on and tried every day to be a great employee and leader to my team. Promotions came quickly and I had some great mentors to keep fuelling my passion to lead others and excel at my job. But then I hit a crossroads where the promotions stalled and it was clear I'd have to move to some undesirable location in order to continue growing my career in that industry. I chose to jump ship and move into the public sector. 

After the new car smell wore off I realized that this job wouldn't be enough to satisfy my ambition and need to achieve. That's when I started blogging about personal finance, and it's that hobby (or side business) that motivates me and feeds my desire to do more. The day job has become a means to an end. The work I do there is just not that important in the grand scheme of the institution, and my contributions are not recognized by my direct supervisor (who's probably given me that exact same answer before, Mark).

I'm not miserable at my day job, I still have fun and try to do good work, but I don't have that same passion that I once had in the hotel industry. That said, this job pays more, offers better security, and gives me more free time to spend with family and pursue other interests.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Reading this thread confirms some statements I made in other earlier threads, regarding how companies view their employees.

I posted that employees were just a number and considered nothing more than a necessary expense by many employers, and was taken to task a little for my comments.

The "divide" in opinions, it seems to me.........is between people who have worked for many years and seen the changes in the workplace.........and those who are just starting out.

Companies used to value their employees, and rewarded them when the company was doing well. They "shared" the success with their employees.

Today, they don't want to share. Nothing is ever enough. If they earn 1 Billion in profit..........they want to earn 2 Billion in profit.

I think it is important to recognize the reality of today's workplace..........because some political decisions depend on it.

The mistaken belief in employers concern for their employees......has an impact on the public's acceptance of pooled pension plans, fewer health and safety regulations, and unionization.

Interesting how so many posters expressed the opinion they were undervalued by their employers.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Here's a unique one for you.

I went to school to be in radio broadcasting. All young and fresh faced. Miracle of miracles, I managed to get into the business, just a few hours drive away from my family.

I was in heaven. The money was bad, the hours terrible, but I was living the dream.

Over the next seven years, the dream was beaten out of me. I worked weekends for a decade. Early mornings 4am-noon. Evening shifts (4pm-midnight) my social life was a mess. And I mean just seeing family, I missed my Dad's 60th birthday party. I couldn't take part in anything. Work was life.

The job became a means, and one I loathed. The people I worked for? Awful. Everybody wants the job, there's always somebody willing to do it for less, and management uses that to their advantage.

So I got out. It took four years of toil to do it. I love my new job, but I'll be honest, the days of taking a bullet for the company are over. I work for me. If at any time it stops being beneficial to me to work for them, I will.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

My nephew always loved sports........and could recite sports statistics from an early age.

He dreamed of becoming a "sports announcer" and went to college for his studies. He got a job at a local station, working nights ensuring the dubbed music track worked okay.

While there...he talked to the popular local on-air personalities that everyone knew.........and they told him they earned more to be a DJ at weddings on the weekend, than they earned from their job.

He quit and got a job with his dad at a local factory. He was there for 5 years and it closed down, and he got a job at a new auto factory.

He has done okay...........but it is just a job...........not a dream fulfilled.

He still loves sports and is like an encyclopedia on statistics, but as he says now..........."you gotta pay the bills"..............


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

^^^Sags, you're reading what you want to read. Feeling valued has little to do with financial rewards. It's about meaningful, fulfilling work, work-life balance and working with great people among some other things. Multiple posters above have taken a pay cut to find a job that offer these things.

I know highly compensated professionals that feel undervalued. For many folks, when you have toxic co-workers, un-challenging work or you realize your life's work means nothing to anybody, money moves down the priority list.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I feel that I am now very fortunate to indeed be valued by my employer- not an easy thing to find in the restaurant/bar industry. I do feel that I am contributing and that where I am and what I am doing is very meaningful even though I could earn more in a different company. But my situation is extremely unique within my industry and the stability, benefits, and support around me is worth more than a few extra thousand per year. There are very few venues like mine in the world and I can't see myself ever leaving- something I've never said in my life. It's a very cool gig.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

$1600 Gold by 2011 said:


> For many folks, when you have toxic co-workers, un-challenging work or you realize your life's work means nothing to anybody, money moves down the priority list.


Correct.

Money is rarely the #1 motivating factor when it comes to employment, for most people. Money usually ranks #4 or #5 down the list, after job satisfaction, recognition, meaningful work and the social aspect. 

If you're not getting #1 - #4 above, I suspect it can make you a miserable person regardless of the money.

It's probably time for a change and I'm not afraid of trying new things. Maybe something in the financial industry. I just worry I wouldn't enjoy the hobby (blogging) if I was working full-time in the industry. We'll see. I will be open to things in the New Year for sure.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

My Own Advisor said:


> I've been thinking about my job for a bit, and while there are great things associated with it, I often find myself dreaming about a better day. I'm sure you've been there, done that, for many CMF members or you are working towards a better day like I am.
> 
> I wonder how you feel about your career - past, present and future. Do you see your career as a means to an end and a happy one at that?


 Be creative enjoy the journey. Without the first step the journey to financial freedom can not be taken


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm the opposite. You don't have to like me, you don't have to "value" me. Just pay me what I'm worth. You can let me know you could fire me tomorrow, I'll let you know that I'll be roasting marshmallows on the coals if the building burns to the ground. We're not pals, we aren't friends, I'm the employee, you're the employer. Just pay me. And if you really want to jerk me around, I can find a million ways to do the same to you.


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## Jorob199r (Sep 4, 2014)

I worked in private practice in a pretty remote part of Canada. I was making 1%er money in my late twenties. I decided to leave that life after a few years and move to a government jon near the mountains. I really enjoy my healthy, outdoor lifestyle now. Mountain biking is my summer love. I also like my vacation time. I started at 4 weeks off, plus one day off every month plus christmas to New Years off. My vacation amount goes up by a week after 5 years. I worked 7 days a week in private practice. I have enough for a house saved, so I figured I don't need the big money anymore.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

Spudd said:


> I started out loving my career. I was in IT and I loved all the problem-solving and helping people with issues. Then they outsourced half the department, and the only jobs left were "governance" which means making sure that the outsourced work is being done properly, designing policies and processes, etc. It got worse and worse over the years until now I hate it.


Wow, you sure you're not talking about my job? This is almost exactly describes my career so far. A few years ago I really hated my job (mostly due to a major change for the worse in upper management) but now things have improved somewhat again, after leaving the outsourced service provider and going back to the company that outsourced us in the first place. Being in the public sector with a DB pension, decent pay and great benefits, I'm just focusing on getting to 50 or 55 and then retiring.

Anyway congratulations Spudd on having the courage to pull the plug. I hope it all works out for you and I hope to join you in early retirement in a few years.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

For me, a job is now a means to an end. I took my shot at starting a business when I was in my mid-20s, but it didn't work out, and I went back to the 9-5. I'm in an industry that I don't love (or even really like for that matter), but the company is solid and treats their people well. At this point, I can't ever see me quitting the 9-5 because my income is high enough that it allows us to live comfortably but not high enough where I can retire really early.

My guess is that I'll end up with one of the company's competitors within the next year though. The long-term opportunity isn't as good because our office is a Canadian head office vs a global head office like our competitors. There are so many more jobs and opportunities, including upward mobility.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

crazyjackcsa said:


> Just pay me. And if you really want to jerk me around, I can find a million ways to do the same to you.


Ouch!


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

MOA, it sounds you've rightly determined you need a change. This sounds like a smart move. Good staff need to feel valued and motivated, as well as being properly rewarded. It seems from what you've said your immediate supervisor and the company overall isn't making the grade on the first parts of this, and doesn't seem likely to change. 

It's far easier to make a move when you're younger and are more open to change, with less at risk and greater longer term job satisfaction upside. As you get closer to FI your interest with change and workplace tolerance may well lessen. 

Good luck in whatever you choose.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

My Own Advisor said:


> I've been thinking about my job for a bit, and while there are great things associated with it, I often find myself dreaming about a better day. I'm sure you've been there, done that, for many CMF members or you are working towards a better day like I am.
> 
> I wonder how you feel about your career - past, present and future. Do you see your career as a means to an end and a happy one at that?


Hello ... in your first paragraph you use the term job, in your second, career. I enjoyed my career very much, but stayed in a position (job?) not more than 4 years, except for the last which was for 5 because going after another didn't make sense with retirement on my mind. One thing I'll say that can make a job unpleasant, is getting wrapped around the axle about things you're not paid to do, e.g., whining about management decisions, associates' idiosyncrasies, and on and on. I caught myself on this a few times and made corrections, I've pointed this out to my wife, she's made corrections. Not saying I didn't speak up, get myself into hot water on occasion, I was obliged (paid) to do that, but when the work related decision's made, let it go. My career was not a means to an end in the sense that I think you mean ... it was just part of the journey ... to use an overused expression.

Alternate Signature ... Adjusting to the changing conditions, maintaining balance and momentum; wayfaring simply and gracefully through life ...


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

@RBull,

Thanks for what you wrote. I have a personality whereby I need to feel valued and respected in my position. I don't need glory, but I need respect because I value that. If I'm not getting that (which I'm not) then I need to move on. I have made that decision and will be looking for a new job in 2015 either within my company or outside of it. 

@rikk, thanks for the insight. I have recently decided not to speak up anymore. I was told for years my opinion was valued but when my opinion was expressed, it was merely implied that my opinion was valued. As in, from management "I want you to speak your mind" (but when I disagree with you, you are clearly wrong).

I'm looking forward to the New Year and new possibilities...


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I work to occupy my mind. I work part time, usually only two days a week but have a small business I run with my husband that keeps me a bit busier than two days a week. At my part time job, after expenses (two children in daycare, plus gas, office clothes etc) I make somewhere around $50/month. Almost needless to say, I'm not in it for the money - I simply want to keep my mind occupied and my resume up to date.

I have other forms of income that bring in more than my day job (ie dividends, rental income).

My husband and I plan to retire in our early to mid 50's and we're pretty much right on track.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

@MOA 

You are welcome. 

Well run organizations and good managers ensure all staff know they are valued and respected. 

Good luck finding a situation that meets your needs.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Good for you MOA - you know that saying - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result every time.

I just made a BIG career change and landed my dream job. Really, it was a 1:1000 thing and it panned it. It's like I won the lottery.

Happiness may just be around the corner!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Is a blogger's life be better than a 9-5 job? MyOwnAdvisor - you don't sound too happy with your 9-5(?) physical job but more so on your blog - definitely very successful .. and getting to do what you want, when you want.... maybe you should consider full-time blogging instead if the $ doesn't matter or ending the means of the 9-5 job .. will that work? Cheers,


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

I have pretty much hated all of my jobs as an engineer. I think I am just malcontent, in general though, as the jobs haven't been that bad, I just don't enjoy the work or the working atmosphere. I recently made a career change and quit 100k+ job to and took a 40 % initial pay cut to pursue becoming a power plant operator so maybe this kind of work and it's potential payout down the line will be better for me... But yeah work is pretty much a means to an end for me. I don't believe in happiness.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

loggedout said:


> I have pretty much hated all of my jobs as an engineer. I think I am just malcontent, in general though, as the jobs haven't been that bad, I just don't enjoy the work or the working atmosphere. I recently made a career change and quit 100k+ job to and took a 40 % initial pay cut to pursue becoming a power plant operator so maybe this kind of work and it's potential payout down the line will be better for me... But yeah work is pretty much a means to an end for me. *I don't believe in happiness*.


 ? ... but you were willing to take a 40% pay-cut to get a job where you would be happier. Now that takes some guts to lessen a means to an end job. Cheers,


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I can't say I ever really had a job. As a kid, I did a few summer type ones, but upon graduation, there were no jobs. I managed to get a contract with the government for a couple of years...hated it. Worked mostly with deadwood who were trying to survive downsizing. 

I did learn that one million dollars was not a lot of money (the project I was in charge of was several million) and it was a valuable lesson. Most people get hung up over large numbers...

I determined at that point that I didn't like the work (okay, I liked the work, but the government worked really hard to prevent me from getting anything accomplished), so I made up my mind that, if I didn't like something, I'd change it.

So, I started a company. In the early days, I didn't really have a plan, no formal business training, just an idea to do things I wanted to do and avoid things I didn't want to do. I was very good at what I did and, as I said before, I enjoyed the work and soon found that my services were quite in demand. I had contracts from all levels of government, as well as all sized businesses.

My company evolved over the years as I saw where the demand was coming from and how I could increase the desirability of what we offered. 

Personally, I would be board doing the same thing everyday, so having the ability to change what I did each day if I wanted to was great.

I never fell into the trap of trying to do everything myself. I hired accountants to do the taxes, lawyers when needed, and people to do the things that weren't of interest (or in my knowledge base). I didn't try to "save" money by using my time, I used my talents to make money and hired experts to do the things quickly and correctly.

Of course, things were going too well, and life came back to provide a challenge...I got injured and couldn't work for an extended time period. Without me,mother company faultered, but didn't fold.

I had started to get into investing just before the injury, and decided to jump hard into it while I still had savings and the banks would lend me money (banks wouldn't probably lend me money once the extent of my injuries became apparent).

There were some lean years that I went through. Many times I thought about cashing out the investments before they matured and started to payoff, but I stuck it out.

As I started to recover physically, I took some contracts I wouldn't have before to try and rebuild my company...I hated it, but had to pay the bills, keep the doors open, etc. 

On one particular contract (it was a bad one...they specifically wanted me to do the work, but were micromanagers and control freaks...it was a terrible project), I remember, for some strange reason, I checked on my investments during a break (I rarely look at my investments) and discovered, to my amazement, that they were earning more than my contracts were (and this wasn't my real estate holdings). I had been so focussed on survival, I'd missed the fact that I'd become financially independant.

I finished off the bad contract, I always protected my reputation for doing good work, and then went back to doing things I wanted to. The company recovered, I started new ones, I helped many others start their own companies for free.

On the investing side, I continued to add to it, and have fun with it. When I started in real estate, I did a lot of the work myself, now I have others to do it...I spend time looking for places which I enjoy doing. I research companies I know and understand, so I can pick up their stocks when they come on sale (currently looking into oil companies for example). 

My investing strategy has always been very conservative as I couldn't afford to lose when I had very little, but it turned out to be quite profitable. I guess I'm lucky and have a good eye for value.

So, aside from a few contracts, I've always lived by the philosophy, if you don't like what you are doing, change it. There is always a way to make money doing anything, it may not be the way *you* want to make money but, if you adopt, there is a way *to* make money from it if you look.

Too many people I know try to make money doing things *their* way, instead of being flexible and doing things the way people are willing to pay for it. 

I've never done things exactly the way I wanted to, I'm not that rigid in my thinking...rather I've always done generally what I've wanted to do (except for a couple of years).


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ? ... but you were willing to take a 40% pay-cut to get a job where you would be happier. Now that takes some guts to lessen a means to an end job. Cheers,


Well, it's a calculated risk...I'm taking the pay cut so 5 years from now, I'll likely be making 80-100% more than I would be if I stayed an engineer, in possibly a more secure and stable position, where I'll learn a lot more and probably be a better and more marketable engineer if I ever decide to go back into consulting/engineering. But I assume I probably won't love this job either....it is a means to an end. They pay me so I do it, otherwise I wouldn't.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Uh, the blogger's life pays peanuts and certainly no big bills  If the blog did, I would have quit a long time ago!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

loggedout said:


> Well, it's a calculated risk...I'm taking the pay cut so 5 years from now, I'll likely be making 80-100% more than I would be if I stayed an engineer, in possibly a more secure and stable position, where I'll learn a lot more and probably be a better and more marketable engineer if I ever decide to go back into consulting/engineering. *But I assume I probably won't love this job either....it is a means to an end.* They pay me so I do it, otherwise I wouldn't.


... well, not until you hit retirement at which point you can achieve your happiness ... perhaps an earlier than planned retirement might help you do that. Good luck.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> Uh, the blogger's life pays peanuts and certainly no big bills  If the blog did, I would have quit a long time ago!


 .. so it's status quo for you, right? How about Be Happy, Don't worry ...  to replace the "means to an end" saying?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

True words Beaver101, don't worry, be happy or any derivative of that


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Hi MOA. I like you blog and posts here.

One thing to remember is we don't get up every day thinking "I am going to fun", or "I am going to play". We go to work; it is often hard and frustrating, which is one of the reasons it is financially rewarding. On the other hand we should not be under appreciated, treated disrespectfully, or stay in work situations we really don't like... need to find that boundary. I have had jobs I really liked, but that's probably rare for most people over the long haul.

When I was 35 I quit my job, went back to school and made a career change. I thoroughly enjoyed getting more education full time and continued part time in other courses after I graduated. I did have some second thoughts after graduating because the job market was bad, as it so often is. But since then I have never regretted changing careers.

Having a plan, goals and an understanding of what I really wanted helped (kinda like investing). I was working in a company and industry that were not doing well and it was wearing me down not seeing a good future. I read books like What Color is Your Parachute, Rusting out, Burning Out, Bowing Out, and Shifting Gears: Thriving in the New Economy by Nuala Beck (an old book but highly recommended if you can find it). I also took some personality tests like Myers Briggs and Strong Interest Inventory, that helped me understand what I wanted and would be good at.

I have heard the same from many people that changed careers. Done for the right reasons it can really be an energizing change.

Bruce


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