# ...bizarrer and bizarrer...



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....we've got the POTUS tweeting out (supporting?) false conspiracy theories that a former POTUS and his wife/ former AGOTUS are behind the apparent suicide of a well-connected pedophile / sex-trafficker...

I mean, you CAN'T make this stuff up!

can you even imagine this scenario 10 , or even 5 , years ago??!!

in years to come , will this 'Trump era' be remembered as the most bizarre, most destructive, most divisive political period ever- or, as I fear, are we on a slippery slope into the twilight zone, with no turning back now ???


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There is something seriously wrong with Donald Trump, and his family of enablers.

Would it even be possible to list all the things he has said and done that would question his sanity ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

And what is wrong with VP Pence, McConnell and others who sit idly by ?

Do they not fear for their own families, if Trump decided to launch a war because he was angry at some minor thing ?

One can only hope they have considered that possibility and taken that power out of Trump's hands already. If not........they are one bunch of wackos.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

They are impotent because they let Trump take over the Republican party.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Remember that Trump has always been about conspiracy theories. They go way back, at least as far as 2010 when Trump started popularizing the conspiracy theory questioning Obama's citizenship (the racist birther movement).

Conspiracy theories have been a big part of Trump's political rise, and he gained a lot of public support with the assistance of other conspiracy theory media outlets such as Breitbart and Infowars. Remember that Bannon, the head of Breitbart, was a campaign head and then later White House Chief Strategist.

So conspiracy theories aren't just a nutty quirk of Trump. They have been a core element of his rise to power.

jargey3000 -- it's not just your imagination. Yes, it's nuts. But deliberately confusing the minds of the public and confusing reality is definitely a part of his strategy. For one, it helps him get out of trouble. His friend the pedophile was recruiting victims at Trump's home? No problem... hey maybe Clinton murdered the pedophile, wow look over there!


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

The 3 or 4 people on this site who are proven wrong (some of them lie) every single day now have their own thread to pat each other on the back.

Have fun


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy, did you get one of those cute red hats for yourself too?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Prairie Guy, did you get one of those cute red hats for yourself too?


Are you still in Portland or have the Antifa terrorists run you out of town yet?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Bill Clinton takes 26 trips on convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's private jet, to his private island, where he was known to hold sex parties with underage girls.

Jeffrey Epstein manages to commit suicide in a jail cell specially designed to make it impossible to do so, while under suicide watch, before he can testify in court. Joining a long list of people who conveniently died at just the right time to keep the Clintons out of trouble.

But somehow all this is Trump's fault? Jeez.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

They are finding some weird stuff on Epstein's island. He may have video of his "pals" activities. 

Reports are surfacing that Trump was involved and a lot of other people as well.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> They are finding some weird stuff on Epstein's island. He may have video of his "pals" activities.
> 
> Reports are surfacing that Trump was involved and a lot of other people as well.


The reports on Trump are that he permanently banned Epstein from his resort for his behaviour.


I'm betting that the video recordings from the Caribbean sex palace are going to be explosive.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> They are finding some weird stuff on Epstein's island. He may have video of his "pals" activities.
> 
> Reports are surfacing that Trump was involved and a lot of other people as well.


What reports? More lies from CNN?

Trump was the only person who offered to help prosecutors back in the day. And Trump wasn't president when charges against Epstein were magically reduced/dropped.

I do agree that a lot of other people are involved...but none of them are named Trump.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump was the only person who offered to help prosecutors back in the day. And Trump wasn't president when charges against Epstein were magically reduced/dropped.


Trump appointed the man (Alex Acosta) who let the pedophile go free, into his own cabinet. Acosta had given Epstein a plea deal, a secretly negotiated non-prosecution agreemen in 2008. Leaving countless more women at risk.

Trump helping prosecution?? Get real. Trump rewarded the man who _freed_ the pedophile.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Trump appointed the man (Alex Acosta) who let the pedophile go free, into his own cabinet. Acosta had given Epstein a plea deal, a secretly negotiated non-prosecution agreemen in 2008. Leaving countless more women at risk.
> 
> Trump helping prosecution?? Get real. Trump rewarded the man who _freed_ the pedophile.


Obama never once considered firing Acosta and he had to know about the deal as it happened in 2008. So I guess Obama rewarded him too?

Trump may not have been aware of the deal as he wasn't even in politics at the time, but once he found out Acosta was shown the door and measures were taken to have Epstein arrested.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> Are you still in Portland or have the Antifa terrorists run you out of town yet?


Nonsense, there's no such thing as antifa terrorists. It's not even an organized group.

Since Trump was elected, right wing extremists (alt-right) have been organizing marches into Portland as a show of force. The protestors that show up in response include some who call themselves antifa. In reality, most of the protestors in Portland who oppose the visits from the far-right / white supremacist groups are just regular residents... they don't belong to _any_ kind of group.

Trying to paint regular concerned residents as "antifa terrorists" is a propaganda tactic employed by the right wing extremists. If there's one thing to be afraid of in Portland, it's these frequent organized visits from the extremists.

Extremist groups such as Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer routinely come to Portland and other west coast cities to beat up people and start large fights. It's been happening ever since Trump was elected, and gets very little media coverage. When someone occasionally punches back at one of these thugs, then the far-right media jumps all over the story, using it as propaganda.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Nonsense, there's no such thing as antifa terrorists. It's not even an organized group.


Just because they're not very organized and really just a large number of smaller cells doesn't make them "not terrorists".

They're using violence to advance their political agenda. That's the literal definition of terrorism. 
There is no rule that you need to be a large well organized group to be a terrorist.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Black bloc tactics are terrorism. It is specifically designed to allow individuals to commit acts of violence with impunity.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Nonsense, there's no such thing as antifa terrorists. It's not even an organized group.
> 
> Since Trump was elected, right wing extremists (alt-right) have been organizing marches into Portland as a show of force. The protestors that show up in response include some who call themselves antifa. In reality, most of the protestors in Portland who oppose the visits from the far-right / white supremacist groups are just regular residents... they don't belong to _any_ kind of group.
> 
> ...


The only people committing violence are the Antifa thugs who recently beat up a reporter. The attack is on video but the entire left media chose to ignore it. Imagine 10 years ago that the media would deliberately ignore a violent attack on a reporter in the US.

Don't be a dupe for the media James. You're doing exactly what they want you to do.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...Back on topic.... I dont give a rat's *** about any of 'em -trump, clinton, epstein ....
but, i dunno, that video they keep showing on the news, of donald & jeffrey together, at some function back in the day, trump making remarks into jeffrey's ear....kinda gives me the creeps....yuk!


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> ...Back on topic.... I dont give a rat's *** about any of 'em -trump, clinton, epstein ....
> but, i dunno, that video they keep showing on the news, of donald & jeffrey together, at some function back in the day, trump making remarks into jeffrey's ear....kinda gives me the creeps....yuk!


Actually you do care...you started this topic because you think that you can link Trump to Epstein because they were in the same room once a couple decades ago. But then actual facts got in the way and it's not working out as you planned.

FYI...Trump has also been photographed in the same room as rapist and 26 time Pedo Island visitor Bill Clinton.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump and Epstein didn't hang out together because they were in the same book club.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Trump and Epstein didn't hang out together because they were in the same book club.


They didn't hang out at all. But Bill Clinton made 26 trips to Pedo Island.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Actually you do care...you started this topic because you think that you can link Trump to Epstein because they were in the same room once a couple decades ago. But then actual facts got in the way and it's not working out as you planned.
> 
> FYI...Trump has also been photographed in the same room as rapist and 26 time Pedo Island visitor Bill Clinton.


I have zero interest in linking anyone to anything...I started the thread for what I outlined in my opening post...
I was one of the first to predict Trump's win in 2016. But I also think the office of the POTUS is being dragged into Bizarro World with his continuous antics and tweets, that are often, in my opinion, either beneath, or not issues that a President should wade into. Not just epstein, or that rapper guy in Finland or whatever, and many many other issues.
Others may not agree. Maybe this is how the POTUS should operate in future...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Imagine the outrage if President Obama had said the same things publicly about white people that Trump has said about people of color.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Obama has made several racist comments over the years. He also spread racist lies which divided the country (Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are just of many 2 examples).

So, we don't need to imagine...it happened and the media gleefully covered for him and still do to this day. No outrage from anyone on the left.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> I have zero interest in linking anyone to anything...I started the thread for what I outlined in my opening post...
> I was one of the first to predict Trump's win in 2016. But I also think the office of the POTUS is being dragged into Bizarro World with his continuous antics and tweets, that are often, in my opinion, either beneath, or not issues that a President should wade into. Not just epstein, or that rapper guy in Finland or whatever, and many many other issues.
> Others may not agree. Maybe this is how the POTUS should operate in future...


You claim that don't want to link any one to anyone but you tried to link Trump to Epstein twice. Stop lying.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Imagine the outrage if President Obama had said the same things publicly about white people that Trump has said about people of color.


I keep hearing this, but I don't think Trump has said much about people of colour. 

He has said things about countries, criminals, cities etc. But actual racist stuff, I don't think the evidence is there. 

Feel free to post some in context statements that he said, and to be clear some crappy opinion piece doesn't count. It has to be the actual words coming from his mouth. 

Oh and being anti illegal immigration isn't racist.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags will probably post the Charlottesville lie that the media ran promoted and still refuse to correct to this day. Several top level Democrats have also repeated that lie over the years and no one corrected them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM6k8uNAQBA


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> sags will probably post the Charlottesville lie that the media ran promoted and still refuse to correct to this day. Several top level Democrats have also repeated that lie over the years and no one corrected them.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM6k8uNAQBA


There is a reason Liberals don't cite primary sources.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> sags will probably post the Charlottesville lie that the media ran


And then he links to an alt-right propaganda video.

Prairie Guy's video was created by the right-wing PragerU, a partnership with "Summit Ministries". This is an Evangelical right wing Christian group founded by David Noebel.

David Noebel is a racist, Evangelical conspiracy theory nut who believes that rock and roll stars are hypnotizing you into believing in communism.
https://dangerousminds.net/comments...want_to_sexually_hypnotize_you_into_communism



> Evangelical tracts denouncing rock ‘n’ roll, especially as related to either homosexuality or “race mixing,” aren’t hard to find if you scour antique shops in middle America, but as something of a connoisseur of the genre, I have yet to find a piece of literature that so succinctly *combines the collective fears of old, white, crazy, Christian dudes*.


I point this out because you must realize: this is the kind of trash Prairie Guy basis his beliefs on. And even people like MrMatt, in his response, nod and go along with it.

jargey3000: take a good look at those articles I link to. You're wondering where the insanity comes from? These are the kinds of people who create and fuel the insanity. Prairie Guy is one of these people who _picks up_ the insanity and helps propagate it to others, including those at CMF.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

James...please point out the inaccuracies in that video regarding Charlottesville. You did find some factual errors, didn't you?

Thanks in advance


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> James...please point out the inaccuracies in that video regarding Charlottesville. You did find some factual errors, didn't you?


I'm not going to debate an alt-right propaganda video created by far right conspiracy theory nutcases. You should stop posting this kind of garbage at CMF.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> There is a reason Liberals don't cite primary sources.


Correct...it's abut the message and not about facts.

James insulted the source because he is unable to provide any factual inaccuracies in the video.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump's Twitter feed is all the evidence anyone needs to show his racism in his own words.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I'm not going to debate an alt-right propaganda video created by far right Christian conspiracy nutcases. You should stop posting this kind of garbage at CMF.


The video is factually accurate and your only response is to call it garbage. As expected...you're 100% predictable when confronted with facts that don't fit your narrow leftist agenda.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> The video is factually accurate and your only response is to call it garbage. As expected...you're 100% predictable when confronted with facts that don't fit your narrow leftist agenda.


I have no agenda, I just can separate out reliable sources from crazy sources. This video is garbage because it's produced by nutcases:
https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/...and-bizarrer?p=2034204&viewfull=1#post2034204

You're being brainwashed, Prairie Guy. The people feeding you all this material are _nuts_.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Trump's Twitter feed is all the evidence anyone needs to show his racism in his own words.


If you have examples (and not opinions as Matt stated) please provide them. Otherwise you and James are just making more false accusations.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I have no agenda, I just can separate out reliable sources from crazy sources. This video is garbage because it's produced by nutcases:
> https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/...and-bizarrer?p=2034204&viewfull=1#post2034204
> 
> You're being brainwashed, Prairie Guy. The people feeding you all this material are _nuts_.


The guy who can't proved a single fact to support his misinformation dares to call me brainwashed.

Awesome


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Trump's Twitter feed is all the evidence anyone needs to show his racism in his own words.


Still no link. Seems to be a pattern. 
1.make an accusation without evidence. 
2.never present the evidence.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

KKK leader David Duke said this........

“We are determined to take our country back. We are going to* fulfill the promises of Donald Trump*. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump. Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do.”

All the proof of Trump's racism is visible on his own Twitter feed and in videos of his rallies.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> You claim that don't want to link any one to anyone but you tried to link Trump to Epstein twice. Stop lying.


hahaha....I actually said "anyone to anyTHING"....its right there in black & white....you stop lying..
and... what's your definition of "link"? the use of any 2 random words in a sentence? lol...
Maybe i tried to link trump to obama ....hahaha....


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> KKK leader David Duke said this........
> 
> “We are determined to take our country back. We are going to* fulfill the promises of Donald Trump*. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump. Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do.”
> 
> All the proof of Trump's racism is visible on his own Twitter feed and in videos of his rallies.


No one cares what David Duke thinks...just like no one cared about Epstein until they thought they could link him to Trump.

We're still waiting for proof of Trump's racist tweets.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Do you really believe that people are fooled by Trump's use of 'code words" for racism, and "retweeting" someone else's tweet so he can say they weren't his words.

Trump isn't fooling people. Even his former pal Anthony Scaramucci calls him a racist, which I think is worse than Rex Tillerson calling him a "f$$cking moron".

You guys are supporting a "f$$cking moron racist" and we already knew he was a pervert, so that would make him a "f$$cking moron racist pervert."


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump has been a racist all his life.

He and his father tried to ban black people from renting apartments from them.

In 2016, he made comments that House Speaker Paul Ryan said were "textbook definition of a racist comment"

Time to grow up and smell the petunias..........


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Ah....so now the leftist made up definition of code words is your version of "proof". Why didn't you say so in the first place?

Hilarious :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> No one cares what David Duke thinks...just like no one cared about Epstein until they thought they could link him to Trump.
> 
> We're still waiting for proof of Trump's racist tweets.


White supremacists care what David Dukes thinks.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

It's almost funny, they said the tweets, then when they can't find one, go back to other peoples opinions. 
They can't even find the tweet they are sure is there.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Prairie Guy said:
> 
> 
> > No one cares what David Duke thinks...just like no one cared about Epstein until they thought they could link him to Trump.
> ...


If you say so, I don't know any white supremacists. Personally I wouldn't consider him a reputable source.

Now a link to the actual tweets would be acceptable.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> It's almost funny, they said the tweets, then when they can't find one, go back to other peoples opinions.
> They can't even find the tweet they are sure is there.


And when that doesn't work they change tactics and try to blame it on the magical leftist redefinition of words. Maybe I'll look for a word that the left likes to use and redefine it as racist


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> If you say so, I don't know any white supremacists. Personally I wouldn't consider him a reputable source.


It's interesting that only the left finds David Duke credible...


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> And when that doesn't work they change tactics and try to blame it on the magical leftist redefinition of words. Maybe I'll look for a word that the left likes to use and redefine it as racist


...start with the word "link"......


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
Give A$AP Rocky his FREEDOM. We do so much for Sweden but it doesn’t seem to work the other way around. Sweden should focus on its real crime problem! #FreeRocky

statesmanship at its finest! Winston Churchill or John Kennedy couldn't have been more eloquent!
I mean, its all well & good, but, with so many other issues to deal with, why does he meddle in these types of things?
To me, its unbecoming; others will undoubtedly disagree...


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> Donald J. Trump
> ✔
> @realDonaldTrump
> Give A$AP Rocky his FREEDOM. We do so much for Sweden but it doesn’t seem to work the other way around. Sweden should focus on its real crime problem! #FreeRocky
> ...


oops! oh jeez.....sorry! 
now I'm linking trump to churchill & kennedy....


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Trump is a: Narcissistic; Egotistical; Misogynistic; Xenophobic; Jingoistic; Ignorant; pathological liar.

His recent outrageous remarks about *4 elected members of Congress* because they had the temerity to criticize him are adequately covered by these adjectives. It is not really necessary to get into a semantic debate about whether he is (also) racist. 

However, the Troglodytes who support him can't spell most of these words, let alone define them, so it becomes necessary to "dumb down" the argument to one of racism in order to be understood.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Trump is a: Narcissistic; Egotistical; Misogynistic; Xenophobic; Jingoistic; Ignorant; pathological liar.
> 
> His recent outrageous remarks about *4 elected members of Congress* because they had the temerity to criticize him are adequately covered by these adjectives. It is not really necessary to get into a semantic debate about whether he is (also) racist.
> 
> However, the Troglodytes who support him can't spell most of these words, let alone define them, so it becomes necessary to "dumb down" the argument to one of racism in order to be understood.


You know what else fits?
He's better at politics than them.


You can throw words, but they're quickly losing their meaning, simply because you can't support your allegations.

I don't like Trump, and he's a bunch of bad things. But I'll support my claims with references.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Trump is a: Narcissistic; Egotistical; Misogynistic; Xenophobic; Jingoistic; Ignorant; pathological liar.
> 
> His recent outrageous remarks about *4 elected members of Congress* because they had the temerity to criticize him are adequately covered by these adjectives. It is not really necessary to get into a semantic debate about whether he is (also) racist.
> 
> However, the Troglodytes who support him can't spell most of these words, let alone define them, so it becomes necessary to "dumb down" the argument to one of racism in order to be understood.


Four members of Congress who hate Jews and hate their country. One of them committed immigration fraud by marrying her brother and gushes over Al Qaeda. Two of them are banned from Israel due to their well known anti Semitic stance.

Trump is a skilled politician...he forced the Democrats to defend those four losers. He forces them to support open borders and illegal aliens. As Matt said...he's way better at politics than they are. He even made the Democrats defend MS-13. It's been almost 3 years and they're still not aware that they're being played by someone way smarter than they are.

You threw out some big words to try to prove you're smarter but just like a lot of people you don't even understand what's going on.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Four members of Congress who hate Jews and hate their country. One of them committed immigration fraud by marrying her brother and gushes over Al Qaeda. Two of them are banned from Israel due to their well known anti Semitic stance.
> 
> Trump is a skilled politician...he forced the Democrats to defend those four losers. He forces them to support open borders and illegal aliens. As Matt said...he's way better at politics than they are. He even made the Democrats defend MS-13. It's been almost 3 years and they're still not aware that they're being played by someone way smarter than they are.
> 
> You threw out some big words to try to prove you're smarter but just like a lot of people you don't even understand what's going on.


They confused the words he says and way he talks with the way he thinks.

Now come one guys, where are those racist Trump tweets you promised?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Got news for you Prairie Guy, those white supremacists and neo nazis who march to Trump's tune aren't exactly friends of Israel either.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Got news for you Prairie Guy, those white supremacists and neo nazis who march to Trump's tune aren't exactly friends of Israel either.


Trumps tune of condeming nazis and white supremacists?
Odd tune for them to be marching to..


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Trumps tune of condeming nazis and white supremacists?
> Odd tune for them to be marching to..


All white supremacist groups, and neo nazis, have become more active since Trump got elected. Are you not aware of this?

They interpret his constant racism as moral endorsement of their own agendas. Trump echoes the exact same talking points as white supremacists ... foreign invaders at our doors, they're all rapists and murderers, and the black president wasn't a true American.

Occasionally Trump wil tweet blatantly white supremacist propaganda. This perks up all the extremist groups; it's like a wink to them. They know that _Trump is their man_. It gives them an enormous amount of energy.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

It's all dog whistles to the leftists.... they are the only ones that can hear them... so they must be the dogs.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> All white supremacist groups, and neo nazis, have become more active since Trump got elected. Are you not aware of this?
> 
> They interpret his constant racism as moral endorsement of their own agendas. Trump echoes the exact same talking points as white supremacists ... foreign invaders at our doors, they're all rapists and murderers, and the black president wasn't a true American.
> 
> Occasionally Trump wil tweet blatantly white supremacist propaganda. This perks up all the extremist groups; it's like a wink to them. They know that _Trump is their man_. It gives them an enormous amount of energy.


The constant racism? 
Care to give an example?
Maybe some of those "racist tweets" I keep hearing about?
Maybe the Blacks and Jews in his administration can comment on how much of a Nazi he is.
He married an immigrant FFS.

I see a lot of inflamatory statements, but outright racism, I'd like to see a few clear examples.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I have seen all the Trump tweets and most of his rally videos, and I can verify what James4Beach says. Trump is a racist.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> I have seen all the Trump tweets and most of his rally videos, and I can verify what James4Beach says. Trump is a racist.


Then it must be pretty easy to provide a link proving your claim. Yet neither one of you are able to do so. It's called slander when people make false accusations against someone without proof. Both of you have been doing it repeatedly.

Is slander grounds for losing posting privileges on this board?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

^^^
not if it involves trump.....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Go forth and seek the knowledge, for in knowledge there is truth.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...haha...thought you were going to say "go forth".....and do something else! ...lol


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Go forth and seek the knowledge, for in knowledge there is truth.


I have read many of Trumps tweets, don't see the racist ones.
You say you've seen them, so show them. I think you just make up stuff and say it. That's why you never cite primary sources.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> It's all dog whistles to the leftists.... they are the only ones that can hear them... so they must be the dogs.


No, I don't think so. I believe there are times they get carried away in accusations of dog-whistling, but it is definitely a tactic that is used to say one thing but deliver different messages to different groups. It is an obvious political strategy, so it would be surprising if it weren't used.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> ... One of them committed immigration fraud by marrying her brother and ...


Speaking of "Fake News", I wondered where you dreamed this one up? But then I found something bizarre called BlazeTV.
But it's on the Internet, so it must be true, right?

Note the following quote from Wikipedia. 
_A 2016 study which sought to measure incendiary discourse on talk radio and TV found that Levin scored highest on its measure of "outrage". The study looked at 10 prominent radio and television programs, known for incendiary discourse on political matters, and scored content on the basis of whether it used "emotional display", "misrepresentative exaggeration", "mockery", "conflagration", "slippery slope", "insulting" or "obscene language" and other factors, finding that Levin was the radio host who engaged in the most outrage. The study found that he utilized "outrage speech or behavior at a rate of more than one instance per minute."[5] In How Democracies Die, Harvard University political scientists Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky write that Mark Levin was among the popular right-wing talk radio hosts who "helped to legitimate the use of uncivil discourse" in American politics, and contribute to the erosion of democratic norms.[61]_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Levin#Political_views


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

She did marry her brother and there are legal documents verifying the fact. Look someplace other than Wikipedia which has a well known leftist bias.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

The funny thing is, we know how much Trump projects his own insecurities, and the fact there was an allegation that he raped a 13 year old before anything about Epstein surfaced. I imagine that Trump is more involved with Epstein than most people think.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Trump is the only person who offered to help prosecutors against Epstein. As to those allegations, they're just like the dozens of other lies that people have been saying over the last few years. Trump is the cleanest president the US has ever had...3 years of investigation by intelligence agencies (some of it illegally done) and they found nothing. Absolutely nothing.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some people in law enforcement are questioning the circumstances of Epstein's death and the sudden interest by Trump and his AG William Barr.

It was reported that Barr wanted status reports every 3 hours from FBI investigators and is trying to "take over" the investigation.

Epstein told witnesses that he had video of important people in compromising circumstances, and it is a concern if the FBI is ordered to turn any tapes over to the control of AG Barr and his boss Donald Trump. Hopefully before they turn anything over to anyone, the FBI will keep their own copies.

Epstein's partner in crime and a key witness and possible defendant in the case was photographed yesterday walking around in LA. 

She knows a lot that happened and should at least be under house arrest for her own security.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

In other words, Barr is concerned that there will be another coverup of a timely murder of someone linked to the Clintons and is taking steps to ensure that this doesn't happen. The FBI was horribly corrupt under Comey and can't be trusted. I wonder who they are covering for this time?

Epstein walked free the entire 8 years that Obama was in power but Trump made sure he was arrested. Shortly after Epstein agrees to talk he is conveniently murdered. The cameras are conveniently turned off and prison employees falsified logs.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wow......are you kidding? People gotta read this.........

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...t-child-sex-slavery-written-by-bill-barrs-dad

Seriously, AG Bill Barr's father was linked to Epstein and wrote a paperback about child sex slavery ? This is too far into the Twilight Zone.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Donald Barr's first book is soaring in price as the Epstein case becomes public.

The book called "Space Relations" is listed for $5,000 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Space-relations-slightly-gothic-interplanetary/dp/0860000249

Barr's second book is listed for over $1,000 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0449244075/ref=dp_olp_used_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=used


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Seriously, AG Bill Barr's father was linked to Epstein and wrote a paperback about child sex slavery ? This is too far into the Twilight Zone.


That's another lie. When is the last time you posted something factual?

(Link to conspiracy theory web site removed by moderator)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

https://time.com/5650974/william-barr-jeffrey-epstein/

William Barr's father was headmaster at a school and hired drop out Epstein to teach math and physics there.

William Barr should not have anything to do with the Epstein investigation.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> That's another lie. When is the last time you posted something factual?
> 
> (Link to conspiracy theory web site removed by moderator)


The information in your link is wrong.

Donald Barr announced his resignation to the school trustees in February but remained working for the rest of the year. Epstein worked there in the fall.

Why was a college drop out teaching math and physics at college level ? After Barr left the school Epstein was fired for a poor job performance.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags, that stuff is just nuts ...

Wacky news continues today. Trump thinks he can buy Greenland!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49367792



> Politicians in Denmark have ridiculed the idea of a possible US acquisition.
> 
> "If he is truly contemplating this, then this is final proof, that he has gone mad," foreign affairs spokesman for the populist Danish People's Party, Soren Espersen, told national broadcaster DR.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

james4beach said:


> sags, that stuff is just nuts ...
> 
> Wacky news continues today. Trump thinks he can buy Greenland!
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49367792



I wonder if he'd interested in NL? ....and tow us down around Bermuda somewhere!
If Jimmy Kimmel can become honorary mayor of Dildo, Nl.....anything's possible in BizarroWorld....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Imagine sitting in a meeting to discuss North Korea firing missiles and out of the blue Trump says.......Do you think we could buy Greenland ?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> The information in your link is wrong.
> 
> Donald Barr announced his resignation to the school trustees in February but remained working for the rest of the year. Epstein worked there in the fall.


Yes...he worked the rest of the school year, not the calendar year. Barr quit after the school year, Epstein started in fall...the NEXT school year. School years run from Sep to June, not Jan to Dec.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Imagine sitting in a meeting to discuss North Korea firing missiles and out of the blue Trump says.......Do you think we could buy Greenland ?


What's wrong with trying to buy Greenland? The US bought Alaska, so why not Greenland? Of course he never said that in a meeting about NK, but you just can't help yourself from making stuff up.

If you had to stick with fact you'd never post here.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Way more important things going on in the world than even musing about buying Greenland. Really... you have to admit the guy's screws are loose and the nuts are running free.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Way more important things going on in the world than even musing about buying Greenland. Really... you have to admit the guy's screws are loose and the nuts are running free.


It is a classic Trump diversionary tactic because the markets are dropping. Look over here. Don't look at how my tariffs are impacting the markets.

Diehard Liberal fans do the same thing. Only their diversions lack the creativity of Trump!


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

kcowan said:


> It is a classic Trump diversionary tactic because the markets are dropping. Look over here. Don't look at how my tariffs are impacting the markets.
> 
> Diehard Liberal fans do the same thing. Only their diversions lack the creativity of Trump!


D.J. Trump. aka P.T. Barnum!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The White House is actually amping up tensions in their own country, which continues to shock me. A huge failure by a country's leader, to actually encourage violence and high tensions.

Today we got a good reminder about how Trump is a vocal supporter of white nationalists and the right wing extremists. Even after Portland police finally arrested one of the extremist leaders for inciting violence, Trump didn't denounce the white supremacists. Instead he actually tweeted against Antifa, echoing the propaganda lines of the right wing extremists who cause the violence (Trump basically repeated the same kind of garbage Prairie Guy posts)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/17/portland-oregon-far-right-rally-proud-boys-antifa

This is why white supremacists and various right wing extremists around America are invigorated and excited about Trump's leadership. He fuels their movement, and this is a great example. Unfortunately I predict that the extremists will continue murdering people throughout the US, as has been the trend in the last few years.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

James...the Antifa terrorists turned violent again today while police largely allowed them to do so unchecked. Yet all you do is make false claims about Trump. Alt left violence greatly exceeds the small amount of violence from the right:

(Link to conspiracy theory web site removed by moderator)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> James...the Antifa terrorists turned violent again today while police largely allowed them to do so unchecked. Yet all you do is make false claims about Trump. Alt left violence greatly exceeds the small amount of violence from the right:
> 
> (Link to conspiracy theory web site removed by moderator)


Total bull-crap from Prairie Guy. Brought to us via the raving lunatics at TheGatewayPundit.com, a known hoax and conspiracy theory web site.

Prairie Guy, is this seriously where you are you getting your news? This stuff is going to drive you insane.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

James...I posted actual video evidence of Antifa violence. If you won't believe video evidence then what is it that you believe...CNN opinion pieces from Don Lemon?

And why are Antifa thugs allowed to violently protest time and time again wearing masks?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

From the same linked story....

_Skirmishes have begun breaking out in isolated pockets in Portland, as most of *the Trump people* have left and antifa lingers about. _

_In one altercation, antifa targeted a young girl and her father as they apparently got separated from the bulk of *the Trump supporters*. _

And who are these "Trump supporters" one might ask........

_As *the Proud Boys* were leaving in the little buses they rented, antifa swarmed them, hollered to pull the proud boys out, while one antifa guy throws a claw hammer at someone in the bus._

I wouldn't condone violence on either side, but Trump isn't just a racist, he is considered by racists as their leader. They are "his" supporters.

People aren't going to let white supremacy thugs prance around in their cities and in their faces anymore. They are fed up with it and it is leading to violence.

Trump constantly fans the flames of the divisiveness with his rhetoric and he talks like a tough guy, but his own past has shown him to be a coward.

Real patriots answered the call to duty from their country. They didn't hide behind draft deferments paid for by their father.


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

I have removed links to conspiracy theory web sites throughout this thread.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

moderator2 said:


> I have removed links to conspiracy theory web sites throughout this thread.


So Gateway Pundit is a conspiracy site but The Guardian isn't?

Who makes these decisions?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> From the same linked story....
> 
> _Skirmishes have begun breaking out in isolated pockets in Portland, as most of *the Trump people* have left and antifa lingers about. _
> 
> ...


Okay, you've been calling Trump a racist for days, you reference the "racist things he's said on twitter".
But you've failed to pull any racist statements.

Lots of people of colour support Trump and don't consider him racist.
Does that mean he isn't racist?

Think about your logic here, a Black woman doesn't think Trump is racist or sexist, a white supremacist thinks he is. Who's right?
Short answer, not enough information, lets see what he has done or said and determine for ourselves.

I know you won't show facts, because you don't have any.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> James...the Antifa terrorists turned violent again today while police largely allowed them to do so unchecked. Yet all you do is make false claims about Trump. Alt left violence greatly exceeds the small amount of violence from the right:
> 
> (Link to conspiracy theory web site removed by moderator)


This isn't news, It's been going on for a while. I'm not sure which incident you're referring to.

https://www.newsweek.com/ice-union-criminal-investigation-portland-mayor-occupy-ice-protests-1153302
https://www.wsj.com/articles/anarchy-breaks-out-in-portland-with-the-mayors-blessing-1533331454 << paywalled

Heck the whole sanctuary city movement (of which my city has joined for some reason) is to provide services to criminals and help them evade law enforcement.
It isn't law enforcement, it's politicians who interfere to stop enforcement of the laws.

This is a serious problem, they know they don't have the support to change the laws, so they're using other means to circumvent them.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Google Donald Trump racism and see what pops up.

Trump's has a lengthy record of racism going back to the 1970s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Google Donald Trump racism and see what pops up.
> 
> Trump's has a lengthy record of racism going back to the 1970s.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump


I see a long list of people saying that he's racist, or trying to spin things as racist.
Several of the listed issues aren't even racist.

Please show a primary source, something that he's specifically said or done as president that is actually racist.


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Prairie Guy said:


> So Gateway Pundit is a conspiracy site but The Guardian isn't?


That's correct



Prairie Guy said:


> Who makes these decisions?


You can research the sources and their histories to learn which are reputable. I disallow links to Zerohedge, Infowars, Gateway Pundit because I've looked into them in detail and found they are sites with very little factual content, large amounts of conspiracy theory and hoax content.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

moderator2 said:


> You can research the sources and their histories to learn which are reputable. I disallow links to Zerohedge, Infowars, Gateway Pundit because I've looked into them in detail and found they are sites with very little factual content, large amounts of conspiracy theory and hoax content.


I have researched them. If you had then you would know that Gateway and Zerohedge are far more accurate that many of the sites that get a free pass here. The Guardian posts liberal conspiracy theories that are proven false every day so your "research" is either lacking or one sided. Matt posted articles that verify that my links were 100% accurate.

Rant over. I'm done here...this is just another forum of many (sadly) that have been taken over by leftist interests that silence people who post inconvenient facts. Enjoy your forum...maybe one day there will only be James and sags left here.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

A lot of what Zerohedge posts is also found in the mainstream media, anywhere from 2 days to 3 years later. The rest is specifically financial news, like lists of hedge funds' favorite stocks, latest bond interest rate developments etc.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

By the way Mr Moderator do you suppose we are children who can't be trusted with controversial information, and can't tell truth from bullshit? Or are you afraid we can?


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Some discussion forums on the internet are unmoderated and completely open to any kind of post - they exist.

CMF is not run like that. There is moderation, and posts must be reasonable and civil. In my view, web sites that primarily carry hoaxes and conspiracy theories should not be linked to.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

moderator2 said:


> Some discussion forums on the internet are unmoderated and completely open to any kind of post - they exist.
> 
> CMF is not run like that. There is moderation, and posts must be reasonable and civil. In my view, web sites that primarily carry hoaxes and conspiracy theories should not be linked to.


And that's why I'm leaving this forum...your view is biased but you can't see it. And, apparently no other mod sees it either. Sadly, this is becoming all too common these days...heavy handed mods with a certain political bias shutting down/censoring opposing views on forum after forum. And every single one of them leans the same way politically.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

judging from the language signature, prairie guy is also former cmffer tygrus, a personnage who claimed to be a millionnaire investor in rural agricultural land. Tyg was also an alt right extremist.

the same language signature suggests that he was also bass player, a former cmf personnage who ended up permanentlly banned. Bass player was one of a pair who arrived in the forum as alt-right donald trump supporters during the 2016 campaign. Multiple-persona nelley/big kahuna was the other alt-right wacko in the pair.

Q: who sends these people? who pays for these people to post their propaganda?


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I finally got around to skimming this thread. Politics isn't a specialty of mine, so I tend to stay out of such dialogues. 

"Antifa": I never bothered to look up what that meant until today. Anti-fascism. So what is fascism? I wondered about that off and on for decades and never really got a firm handle on it until I read a definition I had never seen before. The essence of it is fascists are suspicious of democracy. Apparently, fascists can be right wing, or left wing. What ties the idea of fascism together is their suspicion of democracy, and a strong tilt toward dictatorship. 

If that's true, calling somone a fascist doesn't necessarily imply they are right, or left . They could have a socialist and liberal bent, and still be facist provided they are not keen on democracy and lean towards imposing their views on others. 

I am not in favour of facism on the right or the left.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> And that's why I'm leaving this forum...your view is biased but you can't see it. And, apparently no other mod sees it either. Sadly, this is becoming all too common these days...heavy handed mods with a certain political bias shutting down/censoring opposing views on forum after forum. And every single one of them leans the same way politically.


Ah, one more addition to my "Ignore" list. You're doing the right thing moderator.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The word fascist comes from fasces or bundle as in a bundle of wooden sticks. The fascist symbol is an axe with a handle made from a bundle of sticks. It symbolizes the power of the people when they are united and work together. It goes back to the Etruscans and was a popular symbol in ancient Rome. It was adopted by the Italian Fascist party in 1915. They stood for nationalism and syndicalism and a united people and were against individualism and classical liberalism.

I might add that when you elevate the rights of some group over the rights of the individual you open the door to injustice, oppression, and even mass murder and genocide and it doesn't matter if you call it fascism, national socialism, communism, democratic socialism or something else.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Pluto said:


> I finally got around to skimming this thread. Politics isn't a specialty of mine, so I tend to stay out of such dialogues.
> 
> "Antifa": I never bothered to look up what that meant until today. Anti-fascism. So what is fascism? I wondered about that off and on for decades and never really got a firm handle on it until I read a definition I had never seen before. The essence of it is fascists are suspicious of democracy. Apparently, fascists can be right wing, or left wing. What ties the idea of fascism together is their suspicion of democracy, and a strong tilt toward dictatorship.
> 
> ...


The thing is "Antifa" is their brand, they're not actually anti-facist.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The word fascist comes from fasces or bundle as in a bundle of wooden sticks. The fascist symbol is an axe with a handle made from a bundle of sticks. It symbolizes the power of the people when they are united and work together. It goes back to the Etruscans and was a popular symbol in ancient Rome. It was adopted by the Italian Fascist party in 1915. They stood for nationalism and syndicalism and a united people and were against individualism and classical liberalism.
> 
> I might add that when you elevate the rights of some group over the rights of the individual you open the door to injustice, oppression, and even mass murder and genocide and it doesn't matter if you call it fascism, national socialism, communism, democratic socialism or something else.


Thanks for the feedback. You said it well.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Antifa wouldn't exist if white supremacy groups didn't hold marches and protests where they aren't wanted.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

^
True. Good for them. Apparently freedom of expression, within limits, is permitted and defended. I'm thankful for that. Aren't you?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Pluto said:


> ^
> True. Good for them. Apparently freedom of expression, within limits, is permitted and defended. I'm thankful for that. Aren't you?


Within limits and respecting my right to not have to listen to them, "free speech" is a foundation of democracy but "hate speech" has no place in it and isn't protected in Canada.

This is one peaceful way to deal with white supremacy marchers.......maybe Antifa should form a band.

Turn sound on for video.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

For those who say this is only an American issue:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...ed-of-involvement-in-neo-nazi-group-1.5253212



> Details of Mathews' alleged activities were originally revealed by the Winnipeg Free Press, whose reporter went undercover posing as a white nationalist wishing to join the group. According to the report, the 26-year-old man lives in Beausejour, Man., has been a member of the Army Reserves for about eight years and has training with explosives.


Yesterday, RCMP executed a search warrant on the home of this Army reservist near Winnipeg, for suspected involvement in a neo-nazi group. Police and SWAT teams were present as they called for the Army reservist to exit his home.

It's one thing to voice political views, but a totally different thing to have a violent agenda.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Antifa wouldn't exist if white supremacy groups didn't hold marches and protests where they aren't wanted.


BS, Antifa is just a bunch of goons.

If they were actually against white supremacists and Nazis, they wouldn't attack and protest Blacks and Jews.

The problem is that some people brand everyone who disagrees with them nazis and a white supremacists, even with no evidence.
Look at the vitriol against Trump, but the evidence? It's been a week and nobody on this forum has been able to find a single Tweet to support their claims that he's racist (or a nazi).
Funny thing about Nazis, their kids tend not to be Jewish.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

james4beach said:


> For those who say this is only an American issue:
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mani...ed-of-involvement-in-neo-nazi-group-1.5253212
> 
> 
> ...


How to ruin your life and future in 5...4....3....2.....1


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> How to ruin your life and future in 5...4....3....2.....1


Wow allegations that he MAY be in a hate group.
There are no actual charges or offenses, but they just had to call in the SWAT team

What about the people shooting at law enforcement in the US? 
Those scare me more than people who didn't actually commit any crimes.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The original Antifa was a Soviet backed Communist front organization in Germany in the 30s. They specialized in attacking and breaking up political meetings of rival parties. Their object was to overthrow the German government and replace it with a Communist revolution.
The present American Antifa copies their organization and tactics right down to the design of their flag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The original Antifa was a Soviet backed Communist front organization in Germany in the 30s. They specialized in attacking and breaking up political meetings of rival parties. Their object was to overthrow the German government and replace it with a Communist revolution.
> The present American Antifa copies their organization and tactics right down to the design of their flag.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion


The present Antifa randomly attacks people on the street too.

If their objective and plan is to use violence to overthrow the government, then they're quite literally terrorists.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The right wing extremists keep bringing up Antifa, and flood their media with stories of it, to create a *distraction* away from their own violence. We see this effect here in this thread with people discussing this Antifa stuff.

Meanwhile, right wing extremists are actually going around killing people. There has been a significant increase in right wing violence (alt-right, white supremacist, whatever you want to call it) and activity over the Trump years and this is the real issue. People are actually getting killed, including in Portland where one of the attendees of one of these previous right wing rallies then murdered two men on the train.

It was a racially motivated murder. This man was harassing a non-white woman on the train, yelling anti-muslim slurs. When two men stepped in to try to stop him, the man stabbed the two men in the neck with a knife.

The Antifa talk is meant to be a distraction by the right wing including distractions from ^ this kind of violence they are engaging in. The reality is that there is virtually no left wing violence in the USA, and plenty of right wing violence... that's the real issue.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2017/05/...distance-themselves-from-max-slaying-suspect/



> *He arrived at an April 29 "free speech" march in Southeast Portland wearing a Revolutionary War flag as a cape. He carried a baseball bat. He threw Nazi salutes and shouted racial slurs in a Burger King parking lot. Twice, left-wing demonstrators grew so infuriated with his antics that Portland police officers formed a barrier to shield him.*
> 
> The "alt-right" marchers even debated what to do about him. Some of them, leather-clad bikers, told him to shut up and tried to kick him out of the rally. Others seemed fine with him expressing himself: Unpopular speech was the point of the event.


These are the kinds of characters that get attracted to these Portland rallies. And this particular member went on to kill people.

This is why Portland now tries to stop the radical right from conducting rallies in the city. They show up with this kind of person and it's a threat to the public... some members of the public are aiming to stop the rallies.

Only a fool would say the protesters in Portland are causing trouble for nothing. These are residents who simply will not allow right wing radicals to come into their town, stir up trouble, beat up, and kill people.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

And by the way, Jeremy Joseph Christian carried out his two racially-motivated murders shortly after attending one of the Patriot Prayer far-right rallies. These are the rallies which regularly make the news, and which the residents of Portland now show up to try and stop.

I'd say that's a sensible thing to try and stop.

I regularly took that train, and it was always disturbing when we got to the stop where the men were murdered.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I feel bad for some of the parents of young adults who get caught up in the toxic dump of white supremacy.

I am sure many mamas tried.........

"Mama Tried"

The first thing I remember knowing
Was a lonesome whistle blowing
And a young'un's dream of growing up to ride
On a freight train leaving town
Not knowing where I'm bound
And no one could change my mind but Mama tried

One and only rebel child
From a family meek and mild
My mama seemed to know what lay in store
Despite all my Sunday learning
Towards the bad I kept on turning
Till Mama couldn't hold me anymore

And I turned twenty-one in prison doing life without parole
No one could steer me right but Mama tried, Mama tried
Mama tried to raise me better, but her pleading I denied
That leaves only me to blame 'cause Mama tried

Dear old Daddy, rest his soul
Left my mom a heavy load
She tried so very hard to fill his shoes
Working hours without rest
Wanted me to have the best
She tried to raise me right but I refused

And I turned twenty-one in prison doing life without parole
No one could steer me right but Mama tried, Mama tried
Mama tried to raise me better, but her pleading I denied
That leaves only me to blame 'cause Mama tried


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well of course theres the Bernie Sanders supporter from Dayton that was busy murdering people that doesn't agree with your diatribe.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> Well of course theres the Bernie Sanders supporter from Dayton that was busy murdering people that doesn't agree with your diatribe.


There are lots of violent extremists.

I think the lefties think there is political advantage to calling everyone racist, and saying we're all white supremacists.

The reality is while many think white supremacy is the KKK and goofballs marching around, that's the minority of them.

Most of the white supremacists and sexists are on the left in the Greens, NDP, Liberals and US Democrats.
That is why they are arguing for race and gender quotas, they truly, deep down believe those groups are actually inferior, and can't possibly compete on equal terms.

If they actually thought that people were equal and capable, they wouldn't need to discriminate based on those criteria.

I honestly do not understand how you can promote race and gender based policies, while simultaneously believing that the very idea of treating people differently based on race and gender is WRONG. 
Unless you're completely irrational, or an evil sociopath doing it for political gain.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> There are lots of violent extremists.
> 
> I think the lefties think there is political advantage to calling everyone racist, and saying we're all white supremacists.


The man they arrested in Winnipeg yesterday had weapons in his house and had joined a neo-nazi group. So, um, yeah... he's a racist & white supremacist.

In Portland, the groups coming to town yell racist slurs, intimidate visible minorities, and talk about a white America. One of them attacked a muslim woman and then murdered two men who got in the way. So yeah, he's a racist & white supremacist too ... and so are the groups that create these events.

As for Trump:

 he worked to vilify black people for decades
 he wanted to ban all Muslims from the US
 he argued that Obama was not really an American
 he continues to portray hispanic people as attacking monsters

So yes, Trump is a racist.

This doesn't mean that all conservatives are racist, or that everyone on the right wing is a racist. But *Trump* is a racist, and there are people who support him at least partly because of his openly racist policies.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> The man they arrested in Winnipeg yesterday had weapons in his house and had joined a neo-nazi group. So, um, yeah... he's a racist & white supremacist.


No charges because the weapons were likely all legal weapons.

Or simply the police don't care to enforce our gun laws.

Jessica Yaniv is on video assaulting a reporter, and she had prohibited weapon, but was released, apparently without charges.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> The man they arrested in Winnipeg yesterday had weapons in his house and had joined a neo-nazi group. So, um, yeah... he's a racist & white supremacist.
> 
> In Portland, the groups coming to town yell racist slurs, intimidate visible minorities, and talk about a white America. One of them attacked a muslim woman and then murdered two men who got in the way. So yeah, he's a racist & white supremacist too ... and so are the groups that create these events.
> 
> ...


As for Trump, please provide proof of your accusations.

Specifically the "ban all Muslims" that's not true. He wanted to ban (actually heavily restrict) travel from certain high risk countries as identified by the CIA (under Obama, who just ignored the CIA recommendations).

Being Anti-Obama isn't the same as being racist, I'm not saying there wouldn't be overlap, but there are non-racists who don't like Obama either.

Please provide evidence of him claiming Hispanics as attacking monsters. I've heard people claim this, but he's just commenting on the thousands of criminals illegally entering the country.

I don't know anything about the decades of villifying Black people, but you need to come up with stronger evidence than Omarosa working in the white house, or Arsinio Hall winning apprentice.

I'd love to see you back up your libelous claims, but if past history is any evidence, you won't. 
By evidence I mean a primary source, as in something he directly said or did. Not a bunch of opinion pieces saying he's bad.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Even Melania is a racist

*Librarian Rejects Melania Trump's Dr. Seuss Books as 'Racist Propaganda'*

https://reason.com/2017/09/29/librarian-rejects-melania-trumps-dr-sues/


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> Even Melania is a racist
> 
> *Librarian Rejects Melania Trump's Dr. Seuss Books as 'Racist Propaganda'*
> 
> https://reason.com/2017/09/29/librarian-rejects-melania-trumps-dr-sues/


And the Obamas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgJgIYEIkHQ

Racism is EVERYWHERE!!!!
it's so pervasive even the First Lady of the USA is spewing racist propaganda, to CHILDREN no less!!!!
Even people of colour are Nazis now.


We should definately riot to protect us from the Gays and Jews! They're all Nazi's too!!
https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/index.html
https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-berkeley-protest-shapiro-20170914-htmlstory.html


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> And by the way, Jeremy Joseph Christian carried out his two racially-motivated murders shortly after attending one of the Patriot Prayer far-right rallies. These are the rallies which regularly make the news, and which the residents of Portland now show up to try and stop.
> 
> I'd say that's a sensible thing to try and stop.


Are the rallies illegal? If so, why aren't the police intervening? If they are not illegal rallies, why is it the duty of others to stop them?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jargey3000, you want bizarre? Try this on for size:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...ligious-comments-enrage-critics/#288251846393



> Just hours after accusing Jewish people who vote for Democrats of “disloyalty” (which drew widespread condemnation), President Trump quoted a controversial radio host who called him the “King of Israel” and “the second coming of God,” in the latest of a series of inflammatory comments about Jews.
> . . .
> Meanwhile, on CNN, Anti-Defamation League director Jonathan Greenblatt said: “It is the height of hypocrisy to use Christian theology to bully Jews and to push out some messianic complex—literally, it’s hard to think of something less kosher than telling the Jewish people you’re the king of Israel, and therefore we should have some fidelity to you for that reason.”


So now Trump thinks he's the King of Israel. Seems about right for a Wednesday.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> jargey3000, you want bizarre? Try this on for size:
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...ligious-comments-enrage-critics/#288251846393
> 
> ...


You've claimed he's a racist, you list stuff, and refuse to show evidence.

You're just trolling.


Oh, if your jewish voting for anti semites, you've got a problem.
Democrats have a lot of anti-semites, most predominantly the squad, who are actively anti semitic.
I consider supporting BDS anti-semitism.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

james4beach said:


> jargey3000, you want bizarre? Try this on for size:
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...ligious-comments-enrage-critics/#288251846393
> 
> ...


King of Israel, the Chosen One, Conqueror of Greenland, .......all in the last week.

It is hard for the news to keep up with Whack A Doodle Donnie.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

seriously, has Trump lost his marbles, or what?
I'm beginning to think so...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jargey, I think it's just professional "trolling". Part of his appeal is that he says and does things to anger people... I think in particular, this appeals to angry old men who are sour with the world. Trump is _the_ guy for angry old white men.

And to answer Mr Matt's question of why I'm saying Trump is a racist:

- Trump persistently campaigned for hash justice against young black men, an explicitly racist campaign. The men were innocent and Trump never apologized for vilifying them.

- direct quote: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States", explicitly racist

- Trump _really_ pushed the Obama birther / not-a-citizen conspiracy theory. He made public appearances, even sent investigators to look into it. This is a completely racist motive, to fabricate rationale for saying the black president is not really an American. It's an old racist theme in America, that black people are not really Americans (only white European descendants are). World class racist.

( I suspect that Trump's racist campaign against Obama is when he really started to attract America's racist vote. Many white Americans just hated the fact that a black man was president... and here was a brave patriot willing to do something about it! )

- In very recent campaign ads, as well as in direct statements, Trump painted hispanic people at the border as an army / caravan or attacking hoardes and invaders. This is absolutely classic racism and xenophobia. It's *exactly the sentiment* the Quebec mosque shooter expressed, regarding his motivation for committing mass murder (stop the invasion). It's the same thing the New Zealand shooter talked about as well, plus the Philadelphia synagogue shooter in his manifesto. This is an extremely consistent theme among violent racists and white supremacists... to stop the non-white invasion.

The El Paso mass shooting was the most recent and most extreme of these incidents, in a heavy Latino area. It was an attempt by a racist to stop the invasion or clean up the foreigners and non-whites, sentiments that Trump frequently expresses.

Trump is obviously a racist. And these are not mild forms of racism to easily shrug off; he directly encourages extremely dangerous thinking, especially painting the outsiders / non-whites as "others", invading our beloved white America.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I think we should execute rapists. 

I didn't see the tweets, I saw someone summarizing them. Your "direct quote" is a quote of someone else. 
Donald Trump doesn't refer to himself in the third person. 

Then you ramble about how someone else agreeing with him is proof.

Thousands of peopletrying to illegally enter the country is a problem.


It isn't racist to dislike rapists, or ban travel based on CIA recommendations, or be concerns with massive amounts of people entering the country illegally. 

I'll reiterate, you still haven't even bothered to show an actual primary source, instead you're repeating others opinions. 

I'm done with your trolling,.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> seriously, has Trump lost his marbles, or what?
> I'm beginning to think so...


A lot of people around him think so too.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Denmark's Prime Minister Mette Frederikson's public statement, in response to Trump's cancellation of his planned visit: _*"It is with regret and surprise that I received the news that (he) has cancelled his visit."*_

My guess at her private thoughts: _*"Thank-you Lord, for sparing me the trial of having to be publicly polite to this arrogant flake, and thank-you on behalf of my people for sparing them the cost of his Imperial visit."*_


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I wonder when Trump will offer to buy the Arctic Archipelago? Then he will own the Northwest passage.

Or maybe he's thinking of making an offer on BC, to connect to Alaska?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm bettin' he goes after Labrador next.... I hope so....take Muskrat Falls off our hands.....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump loves himself more than he loves others, and it is exhibited in everything he says or does.

He is a narcissist and cannot feel empathy to anyone including the victims of school shootings, the poor and indigent, immigrants desperate for a better life, and people who live in poverty or peril all around the world. Trump's lack of empathy makes him a poor and irresponsible leader. The Democrats have to nominate someone who will soundly defeat him or the US may not ever recover from another 4 years of Donald Trump.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

*TRUMP TO BUY BC*

Time to start another internet rumour. Remember, you heard it here first!

*USA TO BUY BC!* President Trump has announced plans to buy all of British Columbia west of the Continental Divide. _ "This will be the biggest real estate deal since the Louisiana and Alaska purchases"_ crowed Trump. When pressed to explain how it would be financed, he said _"That's easy - with other people's money, like all my other real estate deals."_

_1. The mainland will be divided between Alaska and Washington. The Hydro-electric power and natural resources will be hugely valuable assets to Washington and Alaska, for which I am sure they would be willing to pay with state bonds.

2. As there will not be a new State, but only an expansion of existing ones, there will be no new Senators. All of the other States will be more then happy to contribute so that their influence in the Senate will not be watered down by new seats. 

3. Vancouver Island will be leased in perpetuity to the 300,000+ Canadian citizens resident in Hong Kong, looking for a way to escape China's evil influence. It will become an Unincorporated Territory (i.e. colony) of the USA, just like Puerto Rico! They will be more then happy to help finance the purchase of their new home.

4. Corporate interests in the USA will be more than happy to help with financing, in order to keep Alberta and Saskatchewan's oil & gas industry isolated from tidewater.

5. The non-tariff trade barriers to alcohol and gun sales will be gone! Grateful manufacturers of same will be happy to buy shares in this wonderful venture._

What about the resident Canadians? _"A lot of those socialists will be happy to move east to Canukistan. That will vacate a lot of homes and businesses for the influx from Honk Kong, as well as the many red-blooded Americans who need Lebensraum." _


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump asked on two different occasions why the US couldn't detonate a nuclear weapon inside the eye of a hurricane.

The experts patiently informed him of what a terrible idea that would be......twice. The hurricane force winds would be spreading radioactivity all over.

There is a movement in the Republican Party to challenge Trump in a primary. The world hopes and waits.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

sags said:


> Trump asked on two different occasions why the US couldn't detonate a nuclear weapon inside the eye of a hurricane.
> 
> The experts patiently informed him of what a terrible idea that would be......twice. The hurricane force winds would be spreading radioactivity all over.
> .


....aw jeez, and we're heading right into hurricane season!.....
....maybe he'll understand, on the third try.....
....maybe he wants Hurricane Donald to be the "greatest hurricane ever, in the history of hurricanes!"...


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I checked back to see what blatant lies the usual suspects have posted and I wasn't disappointed.

Anyone who takes financial advice from the two above should probably seek a mental health expert.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> I checked back to see what blatant lies the usual suspects have posted and I wasn't disappointed.
> 
> Anyone who takes financial advice from the two above should probably seek a mental health expert.


....hahsaha...thanks pg, I resemble that remark....
listen if I'm one of the "two" above, and you're such a stickler for demanding actual quotes from others to back up what they post, please spell out which "blatant lies" I posted since you checked back....lol
I'm bettin' you can't.....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Trumpster better watch out. Trudeaumania is drawing nigh.......

First Ivanka fell under the spell.....









Then Melania was smitten.......









Justin Trudeau is a man among men......and a man among women.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> ....hahsaha...thanks pg, I resemble that remark....
> listen if I'm one of the "two" above, and you're such a stickler for demanding actual quotes from others to back up what they post, please spell out which "blatant lies" I posted since you checked back....lol
> I'm bettin' you can't.....


Never could and never will.......


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> ....hahsaha...thanks pg, I resemble that remark....
> listen if I'm one of the "two" above, and you're such a stickler for demanding actual quotes from others to back up what they post, please spell out which "blatant lies" I posted since you checked back....lol
> I'm bettin' you can't.....


sags said it, therefore it's not accurate. I don't have to prove them wrong...they have to prove they are right. Just like the non-existent racist tweets we heard about non stop but never once have seen evidence.

You 2 or 3 can repeat lies and troll all day long if you want...I'll just ignore it going forward.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....ahh.....just as I thought....
couldn't do it.....


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

james4beach said:


> jargey, I think it's just professional "trolling". Part of his appeal is that he says and does things to anger people...


Thank-you for this observation james4. It has helped me put into context the incessant inflammatory tweeting Trump does. It doesn't justify it, particularly in a POTUS, but it helps one understand where it's coming from. And trolling would certainly be consistent with what we know of his public character.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump says Hurricane Dorian is going to hit Alabama. 

When corrected he insists it's true and shows a weather map of the path of the hurricane with black magic marker extending the cone into Alabama.

The guy is gone bonkers. He doesn't even make sense anymore. Pray America can make it until he is replaced.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

sags said:


> Pray America can make it until he is replaced.


With a chick that thinks she is Pocahontas haha...cant make this stuff up.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Eder said:


> With a chick that thinks she is Pocahontas haha...cant make this stuff up.


You can't make it up because no one would believe it. Her opponents are a communist, a senile old man who likes to inappropriately touch young children, and a fake Hispanic.


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Prairie Guy said:


> You can't make it up because no one would believe it. Her opponents are a communist, a senile old man who likes to inappropriately touch young children, and a fake Hispanic.


Careful, Prairie Guy. I almost gave you a temporary ban for this comment (I'm glad you didn't name people).

Please watch the inflammatory statements and accusations.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

moderator2 said:


> Careful, Prairie Guy. I almost gave you a temporary ban for this comment (I'm glad you didn't name people).
> 
> Please watch the inflammatory statements and accusations.


Really? Some people are allowed to call Trump a racist daily with no proof and they get a free pass from the mods. At least my comment was factually accurate. 

Why the double standard?


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Prairie Guy said:


> Really? Some people are allowed to call Trump a racist daily with no proof and they get a free pass from the mods. At least my comment was factually accurate.


Your comment was not factually accurate. In a single comment, you called someone a communist (yet there is no communist candidate), and called someone a "senile old man" (derogatory) and implied they're a child predator. Yes there is an issue with one candidate inappropriately touching adult women, but no established history of inappropriately touching children.

Your whole post is full of wild accusations and insults. This isn't Facebook or Twitter; tone it down or I will ban you. You've already gotten away with a lot.

As for Trump, his statements and actions are well known. Someone calling him a racist is on firm footing, and it's not a wild accusation.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Mod2, I could give you examples of all 3 claims that I made. 

Yet in spite of several accusations made of Trump being racist, no one can point to one example. But maybe you can since you claim that it's on firm footing and not a wild accusation.

After all, we are all bound by the same rules, correct?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Mod2, I could give you examples of all 3 claims that I made.
> 
> Yet in spite of several accusations made of Trump being racist, no one can point to one example. But maybe you can since you claim that it's on firm footing and not a wild accusation.
> 
> After all, we are all bound by the same rules, correct?


Not really, conservatives are always held to a higher standard (by both Conservatives and others)

The calling Trump racist with no evidence is pretty blantant. But that's why I've pretty much given up discussing with them, they're just trolling. (go ahead prove me wrong, post the racist tweets)

But I've managed to call Trudeau unethical, a criminal, and sexist, though they are all factually correct and backed up by evidence.
Heck I've even called Trudeau a POS, because though he isn't literally, IMO he is.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

No evidence that Trump is a racist ? The only thing he hasn't done is tweeted the "n word"............yet.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> No evidence that Trump is a racist ? The only thing he hasn't done is tweeted the "n word"............yet.


I see that you still can't find an example.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Why settle for one example, when lists of examples are available ?

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

That Vox story is BS. I stopped reading it after seeing 2 outright long ago proven lies in the 3rd paragraph.

Once again, give us some proof...not a left wing article full of lies.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sharpiegate..........Trump takes a dated map and draws on it with a black sharpie to prove Hurricane Dorian could hit Alabama.

He actually believes nobody will notice the sharpie drawing. 

_There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone._


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

MrMatt said:


> But I've managed to call Trudeau unethical, a criminal, and sexist, though they are all factually correct and backed up by evidence.
> Heck I've even called Trudeau a POS, because though he isn't literally, IMO he is.


Consider this your first warning as well, MrMatt. You shouldn't be making unfounded and inflammatory claims about politicians, and swearing so much about them. This is not appropriate content for the forum.

This isn't a Hot Button section, and highly inflammatory and aggressive posts about politicians will not be permitted.

Prairie Guy & MrMatt: if you continue with this kind of language, including wild accusations, I will take action.

- M2


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think calling Trudeau all those things are fine, just like calling Trump all those things are fine...both are fearless leaders and open to our derision & deserve our criticism. Big difference than calling individual posters "angry white men" etc.

But this is a private board so who cares really.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

moderator2 said:


> Consider this your first warning as well, MrMatt. You shouldn't be making unfounded and inflammatory claims about politicians, and swearing so much about them. This is not appropriate content for the forum.
> 
> This isn't a Hot Button section, and highly inflammatory and aggressive posts about politicians will not be permitted.
> 
> ...


I have not made a single false claim about a politician that hasn't been substantiated, or retracted when i was corrected.
I won't use that three letter acronym, but the rest of it is true.

Now are you going to give warnings to those claiming Trump is racist?
They've specifically said he tweeted racist stuff, yet have not posted a single racist tweet he had. Their "evidence" is simply opinion pieces.

I have not made any wild accusations.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

moderator2 said:


> Consider this your first warning as well, MrMatt. You shouldn't be making unfounded and inflammatory claims about politicians, and swearing so much about them. This is not appropriate content for the forum.
> 
> This isn't a Hot Button section, and highly inflammatory and aggressive posts about politicians will not be permitted.
> 
> ...


You and others have called Trump racist with no proof. Why are you and them allowed to make what you call "wild accusations" without proof?

By the way...I can back up the comments I made earlier, some with video evidence of their actions and their own spoken words. You could too if you did an internet search. But so far NO ONE has proven that Trump is racist.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Still no proof, I guess they're going to just drop it here. Plus now they're busy making unsupported statements in other threads.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Proof that Trump is a racist? I already listed them earlier.

He told visibly non-white elected officials to "go back" .... racist.
He said Mexicans coming to America are criminals and rapists ... racist.
He argued for years that Obama is not a real American ... racist.
He's made countless racist statements about muslims.

This is so well documented, that I think you're making a fool out of me by asking me to recite them back to you.

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2019

But something tells me you guys (Prairie Guy and MrMatt) don't see a problem with the racist commentators on Fox News either. In other words, I think you could directly hear someone spew racist epithets, and not blink an eye. And then you'll go tell yourself they're not a racist.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Proof that Trump is a racist? I already listed them earlier.
> 
> He told visibly non-white elected officials to "go back" .... racist.
> He said Mexicans coming to America are criminals and rapists ... racist.
> ...


The refugee who said that some countries are not **hole countries was invited to return.
Not racist, just trying to highlight the hypocrisy of fleeing a failed state, then taking offense when someone points out it is in shambles.

Care to link to the acutal quote?
But even assuming it's true Mexican isn't a race, there are Mexican of all races.
By definition illegal immigrants are criminals.
There are members of gangs entering illegally.

Birthers was just a silly conspiracy theory, but was eventually addressed.

"Muslims" are not a race.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

James is just repeating known lies. None of those claims are accurate.

Good luck expecting one of the mods will give him a warning. I got a warning for stating actual facts from mod2 who then made unsubstantiated claims that they have yet to back up with evidence.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt -- Ah, so you're one of these right wingers who is going to argue things aren't racism because target group X isn't a race. And then you're going to ignore his racism against African Americans, apparently.

You're just being difficult, MrMatt. Of course it's racism. Trump is a blatant, unapologetic racist.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> MrMatt -- Ah, so you're one of these right wingers who is going to argue things aren't racism because target group X isn't a race. And then you're going to ignore his racism against African Americans, apparently.
> 
> You're just being difficult, MrMatt. Of course it's racism. Trump is a blatant, unapologetic racist.


"things aren't racism because target group X isn't a race"
Yes.

It's literally required to be a race (or group of races that is not "all races on the planet", to be racism)
Can you share your definition of racism, where race of the target is not a required element?

For example, if you don't hire a babysitter because he's male, that is sexism, not racism.


For such a blatant racist, he hides it really really well. So well you're unable to provide any evidence.


Your strongest evidence is that a lot of people thought it was suspicious that it took several months to provide a birth certificate?
He was a senator and presidential candidate, I would have thought that before he even primaried, someone would have gotten his paperwork together. 

I think it's just sloppiness, but it's easy to see how people could feel there is a conspiracy.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Again you're trying to make a fool of me by getting me to play your racism-denial game, but I'll write this anyway to help educate others.

You're being pedantic and trying to confuse (obfuscate) by challenging the word "race". Biologically, there is no such thing as different races of humans to begin with. We are all too similar, genetically. The original use of "race" is a totally outdated concept. There is no "white race" or "black race" at all, based on genetics.

In current times, we use the term "race" as a purely social construct, *the perception of human groupings* based on cultural and religious practices, in addition to visible characteristics.

In our society, we _perceive_ identifiable groups such as latinos, Jews, Muslims, African-Americans, east Indians, Scandinavians. Discrimination towards people based on their _perceived_ group membership is racism.

Both antisemitism and islamophobia are forms of racism. In both cases, people are perceived to part of a visible/cultural/religious group, and discriminated against.

When Trump singles out latinos -- which he routinely does -- and says derogatory things about the group, he's being a racist.

Your constant defense of Trump and denial of his racism is raising a lot of red flags about you, MrMatt. You must be a joy at dinner parties!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Again you're trying to make a fool of me by getting me to play your racism-denial game, but I'll write this anyway to help educate others.
> 
> You're being pedantic and trying to confuse (obfuscate) by challenging the word "race". Biologically, there is no such thing as different races of humans to begin with. We are all too similar, genetically. The original use of "race" is a totally outdated concept. There is no "white race" or "black race" at all, based on genetics.
> 
> ...


Huh? 

Definition of racism.
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

Unless they aren't different races, it isn't racism. That's literally the definition of racism.
Definitions matter, or you can't have a discussion.


If you're discriminating against them due to their religion, that's religious discrimination.

I'm not challenging the word "race", I'm merely proposing that in order to discriminate by race, there must be two different races involved.
I believe white supremacists are racist, and black supremacists are racist, as they discriminate by race.
Mexican supremacists however would simply be nationalists.

If I pray at a synagogue today, and a mosque tomorrow, and don't pray on thursday am I transracial, tri-racial, or just diverse?

To be clear, I'm not saying Trump is good, nor am I defending him.
I'm simply saying that you don't have evidence to back up your claim. You have a pattern of making false statements, I'm just calling you on it.

Heck, even on the "Mexican racism", ignoring that "Mexican" isn't a race, you haven't provided evidence anyway.

Just to head off "the wall"
It isn't racist, xenophobic, agoraphobic or hydrophobic to want people to enter your country legally.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

It's actually quite funny that someone would simultaneously argue discrimination by race, and that race doesn't exist.

Your argument is logically inconsistent.


Now if you're using racism as shorthand for discrimination against an arbitrary group, I believe we ALL discriminate against groups.
I personally don't want convicted child sex offenders around kids. I don't want adults with penises in women's washrooms. I don't want non citizens to vote in elections.
I'm sure you can list many instances of group judgement that could be classified as discrimination. Some are even appropriate.

So maybe we should open it up. Can you provide evidence of discrimination against an identifiable group, as defined by the person doing the discrimination, which is inappropriate? Not wanting Mexican criminals to illegally enter the country is completely appropriate.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Races are the perceived cultural/ancestral groupings in the eyes of society. I already explained it; you're just denying it. It obviously has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Racism is picking on any of these groups and discriminating against them.

A racist is someone who identifies such a group and then discriminates against them. Trump is a racist because he can't go 6 months without doing that. Many clear examples in #171.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm not convinced that Trump is a racist. For example, "Mexican" isn't a race. Neither is "Hispanic" a race. 
That doesn't mean he isn't bigoted towards some group, but if he is, I'm hard pressed to prove it. Clearly, in days gone by, the Trumps discriminated against Blacks in their rental business, but it isn't clear to me that he still thinks that way. 

Anyway, while one can't be racist against Mexicans, because Mexican isn't a race, one can be bigoted towards Mexicans or other group. James, I think the word "bigoted" is a better word to try and make your case. 

And on the money/investing issue I get the idea that Trump is timing his China deal with the idea that a settlement will unleash a stock market rally just in time for the election. Next spring and summer should be interesting in this regard.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Pluto said:


> I'm not convinced that Trump is a racist. For example, "Mexican" isn't a race. Neither is "Hispanic" a race.
> That doesn't mean he isn't bigoted towards some group, but if he is, I'm hard pressed to prove it. Clearly, in days gone by, the Trumps discriminated against Blacks in their rental business, but it isn't clear to me that he still thinks that way.


Nobody has a race, using the biological definition (that's old school stuff). The only definition of race that is relevant today is the cultural/religious one based on perception of the group. Hispanics or Latinos are perceived to be a racial group, marked by certain identifiers (language, cultural practices, sometimes skin colour). Discriminating against Latinos is racism.

This is how it is commonly used in the modern day.

And why do you think _it_ is racism against "blacks"? There is no such thing as the black race, because genetics do not separate people like this. Again, you're using a very outdated notion. "Race" is a social, not biological construct. There is a perception that African-Americans are a race, the same way there is a perception that Latinos, or Muslims are a race.

Those groupings are all in the mind. It's not based on biology, but it's still racism when one targets "blacks" or "muslims".

Perhaps the term racism is problematic because it is based on outdated notions. But I'm describing the way it's commonly used and generally accepted today.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Races are the perceived cultural/ancestral groupings in the eyes of society. I already explained it; you're just denying it. It obviously has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
> 
> Racism is picking on any of these groups and discriminating against them.
> 
> A racist is someone who identifies such a group and then discriminates against them. Trump is a racist because he can't go 6 months without doing that. Many clear examples in #171.


There are no clear examples in #171...you repeated well known falsehoods.

Give us some real examples, not perceived examples by people with an agenda.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

James, you're still refusing to provide direct links to primary sources.
Links to an opinion piece, which doesn't link to the primary source isn't acceptable. 

I reject your definition of racism that somehow magically doesn't include race. But even then, you have not provided a SINGLE LINK to a primary source supporting your libel that he's racist. It's been weeks and you have nothing. 

I was half expecting you to find some link about him disparaging Mexican criminals, or travellers/immigrants from high risk countries and falsely claiming that as proof, but you haven't even done that. 

The reality is that you have to warp and twist words to fit your narrative that there is this grand surge of evil racists doing everything they can to hurt people and keep them down. 
It's simply not true, there are very few racists in Canada, and most of them have better things to do than waste their time oppressing people anyway.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Just because you don't understand them, or are in denial about the existence of racism, doesn't make the examples invalid. You will see that those examples are well established instances of Trump racism.

Lots of racism denial among CMF'ers... impressive. But not surprising actually.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> I reject your definition of racism that somehow magically doesn't include race. But even then, you have not provided a SINGLE LINK to a primary source supporting your libel that he's racist. It's been weeks and you have nothing.


I linked to two separate articles on historical examples of Trump's racism. If you're going to reject the commonly understood description of what racism is, then obviously, you're not ever going to think Trump is a racist.

OK then tell me, what is a race? What's an example of a true race, and true racism?

I think it's time for you to explain to us examples of (a) who is a race, according to your interpretation, *(b) why that's a racial group whereas Latinos are not*, and (c) what's an example of actual racism.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

How is a Indonesian Muslim, a Saudi Muslim, and some ginger Muslim from England the same race? That's simply not what people mean by race, and you know it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Racism against ethnic groups is a prevalent form of racism, of which Trump has a long history.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK25531/

_The 20th century bears the tragic mark of different genocides. Among these, the Holocaust of the Jewish people, the Shoah, stands out. *At the same time, we see racism in daily life when people are discriminated against because of their ethnicity. *While these can commonly be called minority rights, it is not always the case that it is the minority ethnicity which is discriminated against. *Such discrimination is a form of racism,* which attacks people's right to well-being on the basis of something which they neither could, nor should want, to change: who they are.
_
https://www.paxchristi.net/our-work...-ethnic-minorities-and-indigenous-communities


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Races are the perceived cultural/ancestral groupings in the eyes of society. I already explained it; you're just denying it. It obviously has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
> 
> Racism is picking on any of these groups and discriminating against them.
> 
> A racist is someone who identifies such a group and then discriminates against them. Trump is a racist because he can't go 6 months without doing that. Many clear examples in #171.


The essential meaning of race is biologically based. There are 5 races. The new sociological definition of race is what you seem to be using. The bio mode and the social mode have their own pecurliar logic and one can not be subsumed under the other. So you are arguing between two essentially different spheres: the bio sphere and the social sphere and that arguement isn't resolvable. People who use the new fangled social definition of racist can't convince those who use the bio definition of race. 

You can save yourself a lot of energy by just using the word bigot.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Racism against ethnic groups is a prevalent form of racism. Trying to confine the racism only to the narrow context of race is inappropriate.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK25531/


But that's the literal definition of the term racism. Racism is defined as discrimination based on race. 

Expanding "racism" to include discrimination based on belief systems is likewise inappropriate. 


I've already suggest that, though I believe your definition of racism is wrong, I'd be glad to see any evidence of it. 
But there isn't any. Or else you would have been able to present it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Pluto said:


> The essential meaning of race is biologically based. There are 5 races.


You've got to be kidding me. This is a totally outdated notion of race. Race has nothing to do with biology, as genetics are too mixed (in everyone) to make such clear separations. It is absolutely not biologically based.

Discrimination of ethnic groups based on social perception of these groups is racism. It has nothing to do with biology, because there is no difference in biology that can be identified scientifically.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> MrMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I reject your definition of racism that somehow magically doesn't include race. But even then, you have not provided a SINGLE LINK to a primary source supporting your libel that he's racist. It's been weeks and you have nothing.
> ...


The opinion pieces you linked to were not primary sources of what he actually said or did. 
I don't really think or care about race,because I'm not racist it simply isn't an issue to me. I'm more interested in culture, but let me take a stab at it. 

Race- A grouping of humans based on common physical characteristics, typically skin colour and appearance, excluding gender characteristics. Ie males and females should be considered one race despite their gender differences.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The primary sources are Trump's tweets, video footage of his various comments, and years of video interviews he gave attacking Obama's status as an American. They have been recorded worldwide and archived everywhere.

I'm not going to put effort into digging up links to all the things you already know exists.



MrMatt said:


> Race- A grouping of humans based on common physical characteristics, typically skin colour and appearance, excluding gender characteristics. Ie males and females should be considered one race despite their gender differences.


This is not the interpretation of race that's applicable to the modern day understanding of racism. For example, Jewish people don't have some uniform skin tone or appearance, but discrimination of Jewish groups based on their culture & religion is racism.

Race is a *perceived* grouping, where culture & religion & heritage form that perceived group. Hispanics are a racial group. Scandinavians are a racial group. Muslims are a racial group, in the eyes of the public.

I emphasize that it's about perception, a creation of the mind, because these groups cannot be identified based on physical or genetic characteristics. Your examples of various Muslims (say Indonesian, white Palestinian) is a great example of this. Of course you cannot distinguish them based on some scientific basis... you can't distinguish any race based on that. It's always about perception, the grouping you create in your mind due to belief of common culture/religion.

A classmate of mine at university was a blonde, blue-eyed Palestianian woman, a Muslim. If she encounters someone discriminating against her because they identify her as Muslim... perhaps after seeing her name or hearing about her family... and therefore group her with their idea of Muslims, then it's absolutely racism.

If a Sikh man is walking down the street, and someone comes and starts yelling at him for 9/11 (which happens a lot by the way) that's also racism. The attacker has grouped the Sikh man into the "Muslim cultural group" and attacked him because of it. That's racism.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> The primary sources are his tweets and video footage of his various comments. They have been recorded worldwide and archived everywhere.
> 
> I'm not going to put effort into digging up links to all the things you already know exists.


They don't exist, I read your articles and they didn't lik to them either. 
That's the actual problem. 

You are making false claims that you can't support.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I can verify that James interpretation of racism is the current and correct one. The old version of the meaning of racism is outdated.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> I can verify that James interpretation of racism is the current and correct one. The old version is outdated.


Yet even with the weird not race racism, you can't find any examples. Even James just gave up trying to find evidence.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The old understanding of racism as being limited to a couple of "races" was prevalent in the past, but it changed years ago.

If I recall correctly it might have been one of the Pope's who changed the meaning.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The old understanding of racism as being limited to a couple of "races" was prevalent in the past, but it changed years ago.
> 
> If I recall correctly it might have been one of the Pope's who changed the meaning.


Ok, I disagree, but it's irrelevant because you still can't find examples.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Ok, I disagree, but it's irrelevant because you still can't find examples.


I gave countless examples and linked to Trump's racism over the years. You just choose not to see them.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> MrMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I disagree, but it's irrelevant because you still can't find examples.
> ...


You didn't give a single primary source. 
I guess you could call zero "countless",but that's not a definition I use. 
Just some editorials, which also didn't actually cite a primary source.

It's time to admit, you don't have any evidence.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It's true that James has provided examples.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> It's true that James has provided examples.


James has example of his perceived racism but he doesn't get to change the definition of what racism is. He has no examples of real racism as defined by everyone else (except you).

But, if we're allowed to make up our own definitions of racism (and any other terms we deem appropriate ), then I guess it's okay to call both you and james racist, sexist, homophobic, hateful, and morally corrupt. And as proof of those accusations I've provided exactly as many examples of each that you both have of Trump's racism.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> You've got to be kidding me. This is a totally outdated notion of race. Race has nothing to do with biology, as genetics are too mixed (in everyone) to make such clear separations. It is absolutely not biologically based.
> 
> Discrimination of ethnic groups based on social perception of these groups is racism. It has nothing to do with biology, because there is no difference in biology that can be identified scientifically.


No, I'm not kidding. In the 1960's I was Caucasian. But apparently now, due to some mystical social process, I am now of mixed race, says you. Hmmm. So what social process changed my ancestry, genetic makeup, and minor physical features? 


https://opentextbc.ca/introductiont...er/chapter-11-race-and-ethnicity/#section11.1.

Quote: 

" While many students first entering a sociology classroom are accustomed to conflating the terms race, ethnicity, and minority group, these three terms have distinct meanings for sociologists. The idea of race refers to superficial physical differences that a particular society considers significant, while ethnicity is a term that describes shared culture. And minority group describes groups that are subordinate, or lacking power in society regardless of skin colour or country of origin." 

That is, I believe, the correct view. According to the correct view, you are conflating the concepts of race and ethnicity like "many students first entering a sociology classroom....". 


I don't know why it is so important to you to conflate racism and ethnicity.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Hispanics identify as their own race, despite there being no existing category on the US census.

They write in "other" and fill in Hispanic, Latino, or Mexican. They are both an ethnic group and racial group.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-hispanic-a-matter-of-race-ethnicity-or-both/


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Pluto said:


> I don't know why it is so important to you to conflate racism and ethnicity.


Because he has no argument otherwise. He can't prove racism so he has to make up a new definition.

Ten years ago people like that would have been rightfully laughed at as fools by both the left and the right. Today people get away with calling a border racist.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> It's true that James has provided examples.


Where?
The vox opinion piece listed a bunch of accusations but had no evidence.

That's my point, many people have this opinion, but there is NO evidence to support it.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Because he has no argument otherwise. He can't prove racism so he has to make up a new definition.
> 
> Ten years ago people like that would have been rightfully laughed at as fools by both the left and the right. Today people get away with calling a border racist.


Culture is a different category. It's a set of behaviors, it is completely appropriate to judge people based on their behaviour.

It is not racist to oppose barbaric cultural practices, such as FGM.

In my opinion to pretend that it is racist to condemn such practices is to be compliant in a gross human rights violation.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

sags said:


> Hispanics identify as their own race, despite there being no existing category on the US census.
> 
> They write in "other" and fill in Hispanic, Latino, or Mexican. They are both an ethnic group and racial group.
> 
> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-hispanic-a-matter-of-race-ethnicity-or-both/


Doen't matter if they identify as their own race. They are ill educated on the issue. Hispanic is an ethnic group, not a race. Race is biologically based, not culturally based. We are not required to agree with whatever wrong idea Hispanics have about themselves.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Discriminating against an ethnic / cultural group (including one where religion is a defining element) is racism ... I know you guys don't like the sound of that, but that's what society considers racism.

Race is not biologically based. You are incorrect, Pluto, and this is a very old notion that's been thrown out by science. There is zero biological basis for separating people by race. Racism and race classifications are not based on biology, because biology cannot separate humans like this.

Instead, race is purely defined by our perceptions of what the "ethnic" or "cultural" group is. This involves all kinds of things, such as cultural habits, style of dress, religious beliefs... but it's all in the human mind. *It's not in the blood.*

There is no biological, scientific basis to separate a race such as "black people" from others like "white people". Genetics show that the two are intermingled, and cannot be separately identified by blood samples.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

Guys, it's time to catch up to modern science:

National Geographic: There’s No Scientific Basis for Race—It's a Made-Up Label



> Morton believed that people could be divided into five races and that these represented separate acts of creation. The races had distinct characters, which corresponded to their place in a divinely determined hierarchy.


^ This is what Pluto is referring to. The beliefs on race from nearly 200 year ago; disproven.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Discriminating against an ethnic / cultural group (including one where religion is a defining element) is racism ... I know you guys don't like the sound of that, but that's what society considers racism.
> 
> Race is not biologically based. You are incorrect, Pluto, and this is a very old notion that's been thrown out by science. There is zero biological basis for separating people by race. Racism and race classifications are not based on biology, because biology cannot separate humans like this.
> 
> ...


Well, we'll have to agree to disagree here.
It is not racism to discriminate on behaviour. 
Discrimination based on behaviour is acceptable.

Anyway the point stands,you still haven't provided a single primary source to back up your claim.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Thanks for the information James.

So, the 5 races concept is grounded in the belief in creationism, where people consider some races superior to others by virtue of..............nothing ?

As you point out....blood is identical. Body anatomy is identical. There is no biological method of determining race.

Interesting..........._The four letters of the genetic code —A, C, G, and T—are projected onto Ryan Lingarmillar, a Ugandan. DNA reveals what skin color obscures: We all have African ancestors._


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

So where is the evidence of "racism"?


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Discriminating against an ethnic / cultural group (including one where religion is a defining element) is racism ... I know you guys don't like the sound of that, but that's what society considers racism.
> 
> Race is not biologically based. You are incorrect, Pluto, and this is a very old notion that's been thrown out by science. There is zero biological basis for separating people by race. Racism and race classifications are not based on biology, because biology cannot separate humans like this.
> 
> ...





james4beach said:


> Discriminating against an ethnic / cultural group (including one where religion is a defining element) is racism ... I know you guys don't like the sound of that, but that's what society considers racism.
> 
> Race is not biologically based. You are incorrect, Pluto, and this is a very old notion that's been thrown out by science. There is zero biological basis for separating people by race. Racism and race classifications are not based on biology, because biology cannot separate humans like this.
> 
> ...


I never heard of Morton, and never heard of the theory of seperate acts of creation of races. The connection between Morton and my ideas is completely in your overactive imagination. There are brown bears, black bears, white bears. Nobody says a white polar bear is a "social construct". James, you get mired in fruitless, baseless debates. 

One of the methods of biology is a descriptive method by which life is classified by genus - species catagories. Genus means general. Species means specific. A species is a form of life that can propogate with other members of the species, but not outside the species. If you can't propogate with another form of life, it isn't your species. Within species there are decernable varieties based on direct observation. In the human species, the decernable varieties are called "race", namely, minor, superficial visible differences. 

the genus - species way of catagorizing all of life was always conventional; ie not real. it was known to be not real from the beginning. 

it doesn't matter if genetics can't determine the difference between brown bears and white bears, I still see brown bears and white bears. similarily with humans.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

sags said:


> Thanks for the information James.
> 
> So, the 5 races concept is grounded in the belief in creationism, where people consider some races superior to others by virtue of..............nothing ?
> 
> ...


Yes, I know we all have African ancestors. That's old news. The genus species method of catagorizing life is conventional and based on direct observation of life forms. I guess now, when some people prattle on about the possible extinction of white bears, you are going to say "polar bear" is just a social construct.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

The point is that he hasn't been able to point to any racism.

He hasn't actually identified the specific acts, just an editorial that claims there is a pattern. 

If it is an individual action, it isn't racism.
If it is a group action or belief you disagree with, that is likely not racism. 

Some cultures don't think women are equal. Saying that is therefore a garbage culture and those beliefs are not welcome isn't racist. It's just good policy.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Well the best I can determine James uses the word "racisim" as a synonym for "bigotry". I always thought that racism was a form of, a subset of, bigotry. 

Anyway, I'm not sure that whatever symantics are used, that Trump is a bigot, or a racist. He certainly has made some controversial, unfair over generalizing claims about Mexicans who are coming/have come to USA illegally. However, in the overall context of his statements about Mexicans and Hispanics, I don't see racism or bigotry.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Pluto said:


> Well the best I can determine James uses the word "racisim" as a synonym for "bigotry". I always thought that racism was a form of, a subset of, bigotry.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not sure that whatever symantics are used, that Trump is a bigot, or a racist. He certainly has made some controversial, unfair over generalizing claims about Mexicans who are coming/have come to USA illegally. However, in the overall context of his statements about Mexicans and Hispanics, I don't see racism or bigotry.


I pretty much agree with you, but if you point out that statements are targeted at those who are committing crimes, their argument that it is racism falls apart.

That's why they refuse to identify specific examples.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Harvard link in James post completely discounts the theory put forth by Pluto and others in detail. 

One example passage from the Harvard article.

_If separate racial or ethnic groups actually existed, we would expect to find “trademark” alleles and other genetic features that are characteristic of a single group but not present in any others. However, the 2002 Stanford study found that only 7.4% of over 4000 alleles were specific to one geographical region. Furthermore, even when region-specific alleles did appear, they only occurred in about 1% of the people from that region—hardly enough to be any kind of trademark. *Thus, there is no evidence that the groups we commonly call “races” have distinct, unifying genetic identities.* *In fact, there is ample variation within races 
*
_
The article also discusses racism against Jews and Muslims, who would not be recognized as a "race" under the Monroe creationist theory.

_Donald Trump’s election as the 45th President of the United States has been marked by the brewing storms of racial conflicts. A rise in racial incidents ensued in the immediate aftermath of Trump’s victory in November 2016. Since the beginning of 2017, over 100 bomb threats have been made against Jewish community centers and schools. Trump’s travel ban, signed in late January 2017, initially affected about 90,000 people from seven Middle Eastern countries; 87,000 of those banned were Muslims. Minorities such as American Muslims and black Americans have expressed fears over racial relations under Trump. Undeniably, the topic of race—and racism—has gripped America and the world throughout._

People are clinging to the Monroe theory because they think it excuses racism against "ethic" groups who are not part of theory.

Monroe who was wrong, but of course he didn't have the benefit of modern science and genetics at the time.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

The point is that Trump,who has a Jewish daughter, did not commit those crimes against synagogues.
Nor did the CIA recommend banning travel to Obama and Trump because those countries were significantly Muslim.

That's the point, there was no actual discrimination by Trump for either of those two situations.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

sags said:


> The Harvard link in James post completely discounts the theory put forth by Pluto and others in detail.


The Harvard links doesn't relate to anything Pluto said or wrote. 

I was baffled by the "Monroe creationist theory". Never heard of it. So to humour you, I googled it and can find no "Monroe Creationist theory". Not surprising. Its all BS baffles brains. Sags, you are funny.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> The point is that Trump,who has a Jewish daughter, did not commit those crimes against synagogues.
> Nor did the CIA recommend banning travel to Obama and Trump because those countries were significantly Muslim.
> 
> That's the point, there was no actual discrimination by Trump for either of those two situations.


So now you say that Ivanka Trump changed her ethnicity because she married a Jewish man ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You are right. It is Morton........not Monroe.

His theory isn't much to hang your hat on though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_George_Morton


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> So now you say that Ivanka Trump changed her ethnicity because she married a Jewish man ?


No, I'm saying she is Jewish. 
I'm also saying you haven't provided any supporting evidence that Trump is racist.

I'll let you decide about race and ethnicity and such. I honestly don't think about that stuff much, because race doesn't matter to me. 
I just happen to take offense to liars who accuse people of things without evidence.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

sags said:


> You are right. It is Morton........not Monroe.
> 
> His theory isn't much to hang your hat on though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_George_Morton


I never heard of Morton, and didn't read your link to Morton either. Its irrelvant. You are funny.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Funny how james refers to this thread, but never managed to find any racist tweets.
Just sayin


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