# RRSP matching programs through work



## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

not sure if there is another thread on this but

anyone have a matching rrsp plan at work?
Mine is through Sunlife and its set up so that you can't withdraw it without a penalty.
The owner of the company set it up so it was hard to take out for employees who want to take it out and spend it, sort of a partnership that ensures the employee has a retirement plan.
However, we can only put the money in Sunlife investments which are segregated with high MERs, and limited options, very little return if any.

Anyone using a matching rrsp program at work that is not through Sun Life? I am looking for options to give to my employer. tired of not making any returns.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

My work RRSP plan is also through Sunlife and the MERs are fairly reasonable (around 0.5% for index funds). Maybe you could ask them to look into whether there are other fund options they could offer, rather than switching providers. It might be an easier sell.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

I second Spudd. I was on a work plan with an insurance provider and they had very competitive index mutual funds. Take a look through their fund options again, and look for the index products.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks for the insight! i will look for the index funds tonight.
I believe that our plan has to reach a certain level before they drop their rates.
We are currently drilling the rep for different funds to choose from, they are reluctant. Something about admin fees.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm also through SunLife.

They offer index mutual funds with quite reasonable MER (in the 0.3% to 0.5%) range. I can transfer out of SunLife RRSP into my own Questrade RRSP once a year.

I think that's pretty good actually.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I would be surprised if your employer would be willing to let you move the money to another provider. They probably signed an agreement with the insurance co that disallows that very thing. Based on what you've said, it looks to me like they agreed to manage the money for you and would probably prefer that you just leave them alone.

If you're looking for returns I would suggest saving some other cash and learn the ropes of investing that way. Most people don't have employer-funded RRSPs like you do. Consider it found money and move on. It will be a nice bounty when you retire, whatever it is.


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## balexis (Apr 4, 2009)

At work we have RBC, which is extremely flexible. Employees can get into regular MF (including low-mer index funds) but also do direct stock trading. (I'm not affiliated with RBC btw).


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

the-royal-mail said:


> I would be surprised if your employer would be willing to let you move the money to another provider. They probably signed an agreement with the insurance co that disallows that very thing. Based on what you've said, it looks to me like they agreed to manage the money for you and would probably prefer that you just leave them alone.
> 
> If you're looking for returns I would suggest saving some other cash and learn the ropes of investing that way. Most people don't have employer-funded RRSPs like you do. Consider it found money and move on. It will be a nice bounty when you retire, whatever it is.


you are correct. they would prefer we leave it in Sunlife and let them manage it, collect commissions for doing very little work. It doesn't make a whole lot, most people I work with are in the negative, still recovering from 2008. I do save outside it, i just match to the point where i get the max out of the company, like you say its made money.

I will post the funds they are looking at providing to us so I can get some opinions.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Hawkdog said:


> you are correct. they would prefer we leave it in Sunlife and let them manage it, collect commissions for doing very little work. It doesn't make a whole lot, most people I work with are in the negative, still recovering from 2008. I do save outside it, i just match to the point where i get the max out of the company, like you say its made money.
> 
> I will post the funds they are looking at providing to us so I can get some opinions.


What are the restrictions on taking money out?


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

*post 1 - what they are proposing to offer us for improvement*

Built FOR me
Asset Allocation
• BlackRock Balanced Index Segregated Funds (3-fund series)
• CI Portfolio Series of Segregated Funds (6-fund series)
• MFS McLean Budden LifePlan™ Segregated Funds (3-fund series)
• Sun Life Financial Granite™ Target Risk Segregated Funds (5-fund series)
• BlackRock LifePath® Index Segregated Funds (8-fund series)
• MFS McLean Budden LifePlan™ Retirement Segregated Funds (9-fund series)
• Sun Life Financial Granite™ Target Date Segregated Funds (9-fund series)
• Sun Life Financial Granite™ Multi-Risk Target Date Segregated Funds (13-fund series)
• Sun Life Financial Milestone® Segregated Funds(7-fund series)

Built BY me
Money Market
• Sun Life Financial Money Market Segregated Fund

Fixed Income
Short Term
• Sun Life Financial Short Bond Segregated Fund (sub-advised by Beutel Goodman)
Universe
• BlackRock Universe Bond Index Segregated Fund 
• MFS McLean Budden Fixed Income Segregated Fund
• PH&N Bond Segregated Fund
• Sun Life Financial Universe Bond Segregated Fund (sub-advised by Beutel Goodman)
• TDAM Canadian Bond Index Segregated Fund
Long Term
• Sun Life Financial Long Bond Segregated Fund (sub-advised by Beutel Goodman)
• TDAM Canadian Long Bond Index Segregated Fund


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Specialty Fixed Income
• Templeton Global Bond Segregated Fund
Core Investment Selection
TM
June 1, 2012

• Beutel Goodman Balanced Segregated Fund
• MFS McLean Budden Balanced Value Segregated Fund
• Trimark Income Growth Segregated Fund
Blend/Core/GARP
• Bissett Canadian Balanced Segregated Fund
• CC&L Group Balanced Plus Segregated Fund
• CC&L High Income Segregated Fund
• CI Signature Income & Growth Segregated Fund
• Fidelity Canadian Asset Allocation Segregated Fund
• Jarislowsky Fraser Balanced Segregated Fund (Reg’d $ only)*
• Jarislowsky Fraser Global Balanced Segregated Fund
• MFS McLean Budden Balanced Segregated Fund
• MFS McLean Budden Responsible Balanced Segregated Fund
• PH&N Balanced Pension Segregated Fund
• Sun Life BlackRock Canadian Balanced Segregated Fund
• TDAM Canadian Balanced Index Segregated Fund 
Growth
• Greystone Balanced Segregated Fund
• MFS McLean Budden Balanced Growth Segregated Fund


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

*Post 3*

Canadian Equity
Value
• Beutel Goodman Canadian Equity Segregated Fund 
• MFS McLean Budden Canadian Equity Value Segregated Fund
Blend/Core/GARP
• BlackRock S&P/TSX Composite Index Segregated Fund
• BlackRock Active Canadian Equity Segregated Fund 
• Bissett Canadian Equity Segregated Fund 
• CC&L Group Canadian Equity Segregated Fund
• Jarislowsky Fraser Canadian Equity Segregated Fund
• MFS McLean Budden Canadian Equity Core Segregated Fund
• MFS McLean Budden Responsible Canadian Equity Segregated Fund
• PH&N Canadian Equity Segregated Fund 
• PH&N Dividend Income Segregated Fund
• TDAM Canadian Equity Index Segregated Fund
Growth
• CC&L Group Canadian Q Growth Segregated Fund
• Greystone Canadian Equity Segregated Fund 
• MFS McLean Budden Canadian Equity Growth Segregated Fund
Specialty Canadian Equity
Blend/Core/GARP
• CC&L Group Canadian Small Cap Segregated Fund
• UBS (Canada) – Small Capitalization Segregated Fund 
Growth
• CI Canadian Small/Mid Cap Segregated Fund
Continued...3
Canada Plus Equity
Value
• CI Canadian Investment Segregated Fund
• Trimark Canadian Segregated Fund
Blend/Core/GARP
• Fidelity True North® Segregated Fund
• PH&N Canadian Equity Plus Pension Segregated Fund
• Sun Life BlackRock Canadian Equity Segregated Fund


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

U.S. Equity
Value
• Beutel Goodman American Equity Segregated Fund
• CI American Value Segregated Fund
• Sun Life MFS U.S. Value Segregated Fund
Blend/Core/GARP
• BlackRock U.S. Equity Index Segregated Fund
• BlackRock U.S. Equity Index Segregated Fund (Reg’d $ only)*
• CI Value Trust Segregated Fund
• Fidelity Growth America Segregated Fund
• Jarislowsky Fraser U.S. Equity Segregated Fund (Reg’d $ only)*
• Sun Life MFS McLean Budden US Equity Segregated Fund
• PH&N U.S. Equity Segregated Fund
• TDAM U.S. Market Index Segregated Fund
• TDAM Hedged Synthetic U.S. Equity Index Segregated Fund
• UBS (Canada) – American Equity Segregated Fund
Growth
• Sun Life MFS U.S. Growth Segregated Fund
International Equity
Value
• Beutel Goodman International Equity Segregated Fund 
• PH&N Overseas Equity Segregated Fund
• Sun Life MFS International Value Segregated Fund
• Templeton International Stock Trust Segregated Fund
Blend/Core/GARP
• BlackRock EAFE Equity Index Segregated Fund
• CC&L New Star EAFE Segregated Fund
• Jarislowsky Fraser International Equity Segregated Fund 
• MFS International Equity Segregated Fund 
• TDAM International Equity Index Segregated Fund
• UBS (Canada) – International Equity Segregated Fund 
Growth
• Sun Life MFS International Growth Segregated Fund


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Any financial institution offers this program, you just need to look around to see what works well for the employer and the employee.

For example we are with Nesbitt Burns, all legal stuff covered and we can purchase any mutual funds that is sold through the brokers account (thousands of them) with no fees (other than what fund is charging in mer and what not), however we get raped with $125 transaction fee to buy and sell stocks or etf.
The guy in charge of our account is typical gloryfied mutual funds sales person and actually doesn't do anything other than collect the commissions, I am just saying that there are lots of options out there.

If you look around I believe TD offers better opions for self directed accounts, at least that's what their website indicates, however when I called I couldn't get straight answer from anyone.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

You will need the MER's associated with each fund.


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## Robillard (Apr 11, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> What are the restrictions on taking money out?


I think Hawkdog might be confusing the option of transfering RRSP funds to another RRSP, and the option of deregistering funds from the RRSP. It's my understanding that all RRSP plans, including group RRSPs with matching employer contributions, need to conform to the standards established by the federal government, which includes transferrability. In addition, I think all RRSP plans need to allow plan members to take part in the Home Buyer's Plan and the Lifelong Learning Plan. 

In my last job, I was part of a group RRSP administered by Manulife (though with no employer matching because my employer also offered a defined contribution pension plan that did offer matching). I'm pretty sure I always had the option of transferring RRSP funds to another RRSP account. I only exercised that option when I changed jobs. 

The group RRSP plan I was part of offered a mix of actively-managed and index funds, each with pretty competitive annual management fees. If group RRSP plans aren't competitive with respect to management fees, I would expect that plan-members would be incentivised to move their funds to self-directed RRSPs.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Robillard said:


> I think Hawkdog might be confusing the option of transfering RRSP funds to another RRSP, and the option of deregistering funds from the RRSP. It's my understanding that all RRSP plans, including group RRSPs with matching employer contributions, need to conform to the standards established by the federal government, which includes transferrability. In addition, I think all RRSP plans need to allow plan members to take part in the Home Buyer's Plan and the Lifelong Learning Plan.
> 
> In my last job, I was part of a group RRSP administered by Manulife (though with no employer matching because my employer also offered a defined contribution pension plan that did offer matching). I'm pretty sure I always had the option of transferring RRSP funds to another RRSP account. I only exercised that option when I changed jobs.
> 
> The group RRSP plan I was part of offered a mix of actively-managed and index funds, each with pretty competitive annual management fees. If group RRSP plans aren't competitive with respect to management fees, I would expect that plan-members would be incentivised to move their funds to self-directed RRSPs.


I have a self directed account with Qtrade - RRSP, TFSA and non registered. I would like to transfer my registered SunLife money into my Registered Qtrade account - but we are not allowed. If I transfer my part of the matching rrsp I get penalized. Not sure what the penalty is yet, someone else just did that exact thing and I am waiting to hear what penalty he is facing.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Typically they must provide the option to "sweep" out the funds at least once a year, after the funds have been in the account for a minimum of one year. The "penalty" may be a deferred sales charge. It is worth finding out the specifics; "not allowed" is not specific enough. Per Robillard's message, I believe all Group RRSPs are required to conform to these standards.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Regarding restrictions, I was specifically referring to the employer match portion of the funds. If I'm not mistaken, those funds can have extra restrictions ie can't be redeemed within a specific time period of contribution. I don't know the rules/laws about that however. @MG - does your 'minimum of one year" rule cover matched contributions too?

If there are other restrictions in place, it would be good to know about them as well. Ie Maybe he has to stand up in front of the entire company and explain why he wants to take money out of the group rrsp? 

If that is the case, I was going to suggest that the OP look at a strategy of transferring out funds when they are available if he/she isn't successful in getting cheaper funds in the group rrsp.


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## balexis (Apr 4, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> If I'm not mistaken, those funds can have extra restrictions ie can't be redeemed within a specific time period of contribution.


Indeed, the funds coming from the employer can be subject to such restrictions. This is usually implemented when the group plan is setup. In RBC's case, it was totally up to the employer to decide on the restrictions (from None to many years, not sure if there is a hard upper-limit).

IIRC, the employer contribution can even be taken back if the employee leaves the company before a predefined amount of time.


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