# Why flights within Canada are extremely expensive?!



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Just was checking flight prices and this is ..... ridiculous! Flight from Toronto to Victoria, BC (not AUS  cost around $900! It's more expensive than flight ffrom Toronto to Europe, twice more expensive than flight from Toronto to Florida!
And flights within Europe almost cheaper than out Go transit  Round trip Dublin - Brussels is *CAD57*!!!

No wonder that Canadians (include us) prefer to take vacations outside of Canada!
Shouldn`t our government encourage creation of small air carriers with cheap prices that less $$$ will go abroad
?


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## Letran (Apr 7, 2014)

gibor said:


> Just was checking flight prices and this is ..... ridiculous! Flight from Toronto to Victoria, BC (not AUS  cost around $900! It's more expensive than flight ffrom Toronto to Europe, twice more expensive than flight from Toronto to Florida!
> And flights within Europe almost cheaper than out Go transit  Round trip Dublin - Brussels is *CAD57*!!!
> 
> No wonder that Canadians (include us) prefer to take vacations outside of Canada!
> ...


Volume of travel in certain locations might have a lot to do with this. (or Canadian TAXES)

Just yesterday I was surprised to find out that flights to Dubai are cheaper than going to Rio de Janeiro


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Lead time also matters ... with sufficient lead time, I'm finding Toronto to Victoria for $550 ... which is pretty much average that I've paid to go to Los Angeles, CA.


Cheers


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Airlines will charge what the market will bear because companies are, you know, in business to make profit. There's more competition on international routes.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> Lead time also matters ... with sufficient lead time, I'm finding Toronto to Victoria for $550 ... which is pretty much average that I've paid to go to Los Angeles, CA.
> 
> 
> Cheers


What lead time?! I'm checking end of August ...the cheapest tickets Toronto - Victoria $812 , Toronto - Tampa $527 and out of curiosity Dublin - Brussels $86 
I was looking direct flights...

but even with Layover of 9 hours , the cheapest ticket Toronto - Victoria $739...

P.S. and Ryanair, who offers flight tickets cheaper than couple of days Go transit, somehow makes a profit


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I was talking to a lady today that had to pay over $700.00 to fly from Kamloops to Vancouver. I can fly to Vegas for that price including the wife and a very good hotel for four nights on the strip.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

gibor said:


> Just was checking flight prices and this is ..... ridiculous! Flight from Toronto to Victoria, BC (not AUS  cost around $900! It's ... twice more expensive than flight from Toronto to Florida! ...


And distance from Toronto to Victoria is approximately twice the distance from Toronto to Orlando.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

gibor said:


> ...Shouldn`t our government encourage creation of small air carriers with cheap prices that less $$$ will go abroad?


You mean like this lengthy list of defunct Canadian airlines from Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines_of_Canada


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

dogcom said:


> I was talking to a lady today that had to pay over $700.00 to fly from Kamloops to Vancouver. I can fly to Vegas for that price including the wife and a very good hotel for four nights on the strip.


I just did a quick search on Expedia.ca and I got $170-$175 one way on either Air Canada or West Jet, leaving Mar. 31 at almost any time of day. But to leave Feb. 20 that jumps to at least $245, and as high as $519, depending on the flight. Last-minute bookings are always very expensive.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

The main reason which has prevented us from exploring Canada so far is the cost, we vacation elsewhere for the fraction of the price.
It's a shame because both east and west are just gorgeous.

We can go to Mexico for less than we would have to pay in Wasaga Beach (and we don't even have to fly to Wasaga ;-)


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

gibor said:


> P.S. and Ryanair, who offers flight tickets cheaper than couple of days Go transit, somehow makes a profit


Sure... because Ryanair charges extra for all those little things that you can assume are included in an Air Canada flight, or some other major carrier. Want to check any luggage or bring some carryon? Extra. Small snack or drink that is usually complimentary? Extra. Want to check in at the airport rather than online? Extra. I believe they also have reduced leg room to fit more seats in, and the seats don't recline... little things like that to squeeze every last penny out if you're okay with being uncomfortable for the flight.

Not that it's a bad thing... it's pay-per-use to the extreme. I'm just saying it's not comparable.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I recently did the following.

Flew from 
Munich -> Rome
Rome -> Budapest
Budapest -> Paris

All these flights all in, taxes fees, baggage for TWO people. $653 CDN Oh and I booked them only 2 weeks in advance.

Yup, we get hosed.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Homerhomer said:


> The main reason which has prevented us from exploring Canada so far is the cost, we vacation elsewhere for the fraction of the price.
> It's a shame because both east and west are just gorgeous.


This was exactly my point! 
In last 15 years we were planning 3-4 times to fly to West Coast.... but at the end, we went to Czech Republic , Spain, US... because it's cheaper!

This year again, after comparing prices, we decided this summer to go to France (fly to Paris visit Berry, Dordogne, Provence, Rhone-Alps and back from Lyon)... Air fare, car rental, accommodation is cheaper in France, food (no comments ), and much more interesting...

This, trip to Vancouver Island is postponed


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

dogcom said:


> I was talking to a lady today that had to pay over $700.00 to fly from Kamloops to Vancouver. I can fly to Vegas for that price including the wife and a very good hotel for four nights on the strip.


My wife had last year figure skating competition in Regina and she paid anout $700 to fly to this "hole"


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_


Barwelle said:



Sure... because Ryanair charges extra for all those little things that you can assume are included in an Air Canada flight, or some other major carrier. Want to check any luggage or bring some carryon? Extra. Small snack or drink that is usually complimentary? Extra. Want to check in at the airport rather than online? Extra. I believe they also have reduced leg room to fit more seats in, and the seats don't recline... little things like that to squeeze every last penny out if you're okay with being uncomfortable for the flight.

Not that it's a bad thing... it's pay-per-use to the extreme. I'm just saying it's not comparable.

Click to expand...

Want to check any luggage or bring some carryon? Extra OK, and how much you will pay?! Amother $20?!

Small snack or drink that is usually complimentary? Another $2?! and snacks here are a joke 

Want to check in at the airport rather than online? Extra probably you mean 'want to check online'?! Never did it and don't care.

I believe they also have reduced leg room to fit more seats in it was done on Canadian airline long time ago.

AND basic price of Ryanair is $57!!!

P.S. I see that many on CMF think that such ridiculous prices are OK...no wonder why we have it _


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> 1. _*Small snack *or drink that is usually complimentary?_ Another $2?! and snacks here are a joke
> 2. _I believe they also have reduced *leg room* to fit more seats in_ it was done on Canadian airline long time ago.
> 3. P.S. I see that many on CMF think that such *ridiculous prices are OK*...no wonder why we have it


*1.* They don't even exist any more on even 4 hour flights. My son flew to Edmonton last summer [around $800], and was only offered drinks. If the flight had been 1/2 that price, then even no drinks would have been fine.
*2.* Speaking of leg room, height discrimination? What do you think?
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/too-tall-to-fly-airlines-accused-of-height-discrimination-1.2219269 
*3.* No, not ok., but I understand the reasons.

Last time we flew to Istanbul, we did so from Buffalo at a total cost of $2,400 for 3 people; from Toronto it would have cost $4.8K!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

gibor said:


> _
> 
> Want to check any luggage or bring some carryon? Extra OK, and how much you will pay?! Amother $20?!
> 
> ...


_ ... try $25 per bag under 50 lbs "each" way. 

Maybe time to buy Canadian airlines stocks as some CMF investors would have it? :biggrin:_


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> *1.*
> *2.* Speaking of leg room, height discrimination? What do you think?
> http://bc.ctvnews.ca/too-tall-to-fly-airlines-accused-of-height-discrimination-1.2219269
> !


IMO another cry baby who with too much time on his hands.

ps, I am also 6.4 ;-)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Speaking of leg room, height discrimination


 I have impression that our planes are build for drawts 



> but I understand the reasons.


 me too and the major one , no real competion ...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Homerhomer said:


> IMO another cry baby who with too much time on his hands. ps, I am also 6.4 ;-)


Tall family here, too!

Nobody has control over their height, but many can control their weight. 

I'm not crying discrimination, but I don't see why people of a certain height could not be accommodated at no extra/or minimal cost, but up to $200 extra? Give me a break.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... try $25 per bag under 50 lbs "each" way.
> 
> Maybe time to buy Canadian airlines stocks as some CMF investors would have it? :biggrin:


OK, tried! Got about $107 .... compare to $900+ 
Raynair was just example.... there are many other European cheap airlines.... like SAS , Iberia etc... Even take the big one like Lufthansa ... checked probably the longest European flight Dublin - Moscow (Lufthansa ) -> almost 3 times cheaper than Tor- Victoria


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

gibor said:


> P.S. I see that many on CMF think that such ridiculous prices are OK...no wonder why we have it


Yup

Flights are immensely cheaper in Europe especially for Europeans (using airports and airlines that most tourists never heard of) Ryanair is ok if you just have to get somewhere because of an emergency or something, but I wouldn't recommend them for a vacation. In Canada we don't have this deep discount option though. It seems like Air Canada just keeps charging more to make up for empty seats causing more empty seats..

Many Canadians just drive to the closest US airport.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

m3s said:


> Yup
> 
> Flights are immensely cheaper in Europe especially for Europeans (using airports and airlines that most tourists never heard of) Ryanair is ok if you just have to get somewhere because of an emergency or something, but I wouldn't recommend them for a vacation. In Canada we don't have this deep discount option though. It seems like Air Canada just keeps charging more to make up for empty seats causing more empty seats..
> 
> Many Canadians just drive to the closest US airport.


Google flights is very good , give you really fast all available flights of all available companies....




> Ryanair is ok if you just have to get somewhere because of an emergency or something, but I wouldn't recommend them for a vacation


 If I;d live in Dublin and round ticket to Brussels would cost $57 , I'd just go there for weekend to drink Leffe and have some nice food 

Oil prices got cut more than 50%, but ticket prices just going up and up...

When we went to Florida, we also were flying to Buffalo, but problem that there aren't too many direct flights from there....


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

gibor said:


> Google flights is very good , give you really fast all available flights of all available companies....


Tourists book flights in and out of Heathrow, Charles de Gaelle, Schiphol, Frankfurt etc. Many of the discount airlines are flying in and out of airports you'd never know to search for, and probably involves a short train ride to your destination.

Similarly to get out west, you could look into flights from the closest US airport to Seattle which is just a ferry ride from Victoria.. Google flights probably didn't show this option (shows what you searched for) I also find Airmiles get the best return on cross Canadia flights

But you could probably fly to Hawaii for the same price.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> Sure... because Ryanair charges extra for all those little things that you can assume are included in an Air Canada flight, or some other major carrier.


Weren't they the ones looking at a fee per visit to the bathroom?




Barwelle said:


> Not that it's a bad thing... it's pay-per-use to the extreme. I'm just saying it's not comparable.


+1 ....


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor said:


> ... P.S. I see that many on CMF think that such ridiculous prices are OK...no wonder why we have it


I'm seeing as more CMF'ers wanting to be sure it's an apples to apples comparison ... but if you choose to think many are paying it without a second thought ... that's your choice.




Toronto.gal said:


> {Snacks}
> They don't even exist any more on even 4 hour flights. My son flew to Edmonton last summer [around $800], and was only offered drinks. If the flight had been 1/2 that price, then even no drinks would have been fine.


Odd ... I was such I had both free snacks and wine on my Porter flight around Jan 23rd. :biggrin:
Of course it was two one hour flights instead of a four hour flight.




gibor said:


> ... me too and the major one , no real competion ...


You mean like United Airlines that wanted $7 to watch broadcast TV, did not provide snacks or a meal or wine? 
I could have sworn the US had lots of competition, never mind the competition from foreign airlines.

Mind you ... just the twelve gate changes in an hour and half would have soured me on United anyway. :frown:

Cheers


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Odd ... I was such I had both *free snacks and wine on my Porter flight* around Jan 23rd. :biggrin: Of course it was two one hour flights instead of a four hour flight.


Now who's comparing apples to oranges?!  Edmonton flight was with Air Canada.

My friend from Vancouver also mentioned having had to pay for a sandwich on a flight to Toronto, which is an ever longer flight!


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Hopefully Elon Musk will make trans-continental air travel irrelevant sooner than later. Of course Hyperloop Canada will still charge $9+tax for a bland sandwich.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I'm seeing as more CMF'ers wanting to be sure it's an apples to apples comparison


 Are you serious?! I'm not comparing flights to horese riding.....I'm comparing flights vs flights ... do you serously think that flight where you get 50ml of cheap wife and 50 cents "snack" vs another flight not offering those "goodies" -> are comparing apples to oranges ?!



> You mean like United Airlines that wanted $7 to watch broadcast TV


 Oh! This is serious argument! Flying 6 times per year and never watched ant TV or movies they show on the plane.... and if you just cannot miss opportunity to watch broadcast, what is $7 comparing to hundreds you save>?!


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

gibor said:


> Are you serious?! do you serously think that flight where you get *50ml of cheap wife *and 50 cents "snack">?!


50ml of cheap wife, have I missed the latest apple product announcement? What is it. Do cheap wives come in other sizes and options?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

LOL, perhaps he drank a lil too much cheap wiNe celebrating the Year of the Goat, which will hopefully bring us promise & prosperity!! :cool2:

Gong Xi Fa Cai‏!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Now who's comparing apples to oranges?!  Edmonton flight was with Air Canada.


Absolutely ... 




Toronto.gal said:


> My friend from Vancouver also mentioned having had to pay for a sandwich on a flight to Toronto, which is an ever longer flight!


WestJet wanted $7 for a sandwich on the flight from Ottawa to Orlando in 2006 ... ah the good ole days ... I remember then well. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor said:


> Are you serious?! I'm not comparing flights to horese riding.....I'm comparing flights vs flights ...


So if I compare ferry ride to ferry ride ... if I can get a ferry ride in the Philippines for $28 CAD, I should be able to get the same distance ferry ride in Canada for $28, right? 




gibor said:


> ... do you serously think that flight where you get 50ml of cheap wife ...



You can get a cheap wife on a flight? 
You learn something new every day .... :biggrin:


As for the snacks .. I was making no comment on apples versus oranges but was pointing out that Porter still provides them.




gibor said:


> ... Oh! This is serious argument! Flying 6 times per year and never watched ant TV or movies they show on the plane.... and if you just cannot miss opportunity to watch broadcast, what is $7 comparing to hundreds you save>?!


What savings on United? 

For that flight, ignoring the entertainment fee - United was $450 more expensive than the Latin American airline I chose (who also provided leather seats, a free entertainment system, a hot meal and three full glasses of wine).


For what it's worth ... Air Canada was cheaper than United but more expensive than the Latin American flight.


It seem more complicated to me than simply competition.


Cheers


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> So if I compare ferry ride to ferry ride ... if I can get a ferry ride in the Philippines for $28 CAD, I should be able to get the same distance ferry ride in Canada for $28, right?


This is why I was comparinmg on purpose Canada vs Western Europe! (and not even Russia when flight from Moscow to Vladivostok that is almost twice longer, cost more than twice cheaper)

OK, correction "do you serously think that flight where you get 50ml of cheap wine ..."?




> What savings on United?


 i don't know... you started with United  I was comparing European flights... and don't remember with which US airline we flew, but flight from Buffalo to Orlando was twice cheaper than from Toronro to Orlando.

btw, some time ago was planning ski trip... so flight from Toronto to Calgary was twice more expensive than from Buffalo to Colorado (it's US, not Philippines ) and similar disctance..... even flight from Buffalo to Calgary was about 15-20% cheaper than from Toronto...


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

gibor said:


> ... btw, some time ago was planning ski trip... so flight from Toronto to Calgary was twice more expensive than from Buffalo to Colorado (it's US, not Philippines ) and similar distance..... even flight from Buffalo to Calgary was about 15-20% cheaper than from Toronto...


Distance from Buffalo to Denver: 2204km. Distance Toronto to *Calgary*: 2716km. Gee, only 23% further. Does that count as "similar"?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Distance from Buffalo to Denver: 2204km. Distance Toronto to Vancouver: 2716km. Gee, only 23% further. Does that count as "similar"?


Gee dude, first of all I wrote Toronto to Calgary , not Toronto to Vancouver.... another example was Toronto vs Buffalo to Calgary...you may measure distance...

Out of curiosity checked flight from Frankfurt to Tokyo 9370.6 Kilometers  , it cost cheaper than Toronto - Victoria 

P.S. Continue to defend our airlines!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor said:


> ... i don't know... you started with United


The comment regarding competition suggested that this was all that was needed to adjust pricing.

United, American, US Airways, Delta all are operating in a far more competitive environment yet offered a more expensive flight with fewer benefits than either Air Canada or Avianca.
No just for one day ... but for twelve weeks, checking almost daily.




gibor said:


> ... flight from Buffalo to Orlando was twice cheaper than from Toronro to Orlando...


 ... makes you wonder why United, US Airways, Delta & American aren't using their size to undercut the Canadian players such as Air Canada & WestJet.


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... makes you wonder why United, US Airways, Delta & American aren't using their size to undercut the Canadian players such as Air Canada & WestJet.
> 
> 
> Cheers


Maybe Canada doesn't want Emirates and Air Asia to undercut them just like Canada doesn't want Orascom and Verizon to undercut Canadian telcos? There are things such as landing permissions, gate rentals, airport fees etc..

In 2010, the UAE suddenly denied landing permissions to Canadian diplomats, increased fees and requirements for all Canadian visas, suddenly denied visas without reason, and shut down an entire military base within days. All of this because Canada would not grant landing slots to Emirates and Etihad airlines. Otherwise, you could probably fly Toronto to Vancouver for $400 by now (I've flown more than double that distance with Etihad for $700, during Christmas) Similarly, see Naguib Sawiris (telco tycoon who tried to invest in Canadian telcom)

Why do millions of Canadians chose to fly in and out of US border airports every year? Canadians pay the most for telecom in the world, and they pay orders of magnitude more for flights. Canadians seem fine with that.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

m3s said:


> Maybe Canada doesn't want Emirates and Air Asia to undercut them just like Canada doesn't want Orascom and Verizon to undercut Canadian telcos? There are things such as landing permissions, gate rentals, airport fees etc..
> 
> In 2010, the UAE suddenly denied landing permissions to Canadian diplomats, increased fees and requirements for all Canadian visas, suddenly denied visas without reason, and shut down an entire military base within days. All of this because Canada would not grant landing slots to Emirates and Etihad airlines. Otherwise, you could probably fly Toronto to Vancouver for $400 by now (I've flown more than double that distance with Etihad for $700, during Christmas) Similarly, see Naguib Sawiris (telco tycoon who tried to invest in Canadian telcom)
> 
> Why do millions of Canadians chose to fly in and out of US border airports every year? Canadians pay the most for telecom in the world, and they pay orders of magnitude more for flights. Canadians seem fine with that.


Don't know that most of us are 'fine' with it- it's just a fact of life here and there is not much that we as individuals can do to change it. Can we politely ask the telcos to cut their fees by 2/3 and have them say yes? Will Westjet let me fly home from YVR-YEG at Xmas for $100 every year if I ask nicely enough?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> Maybe Canada doesn't want Emirates and Air Asia to undercut them just like Canada doesn't want Orascom and Verizon to undercut Canadian telcos? There are things such as landing permissions, gate rentals, airport fees etc..


What? 
You mean the sole factor isn't competition or the lack thereof? 

This is more long the lines of what I was thinking ... but the comparisons as well as the statement about competition suggested otherwise. :biggrin:




m3s said:


> Why do millions of Canadians chose to fly in and out of US border airports every year? ...


Apparently ... they are finding bargains ... in my case, except for two of the twelve weeks - the nearby US airports were more expensive than United/Delta/US Airways flying directly out of Canada.

One day it might work out for me ... so far, I've had better success taking unpopular flights, using different airlines for the legs of the travel or changing my dates to less popular dates.


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> What?
> You mean the sole factor isn't competition or the lack thereof?
> 
> This is more long the lines of what I was thinking ... but the comparisons as well as the statement about competition suggested otherwise. :biggrin:


Clearly your rhetorical free market does not fly. I imagine home airlines pay less for their home airports than foreign airlines. Air Canada is heavily subsidized, and now Canada has to spoil international relations to shelter it in a bubble.

Things like telecom infrastructure and transportation infrastructure are important for businesses. Meanwhile business is fleeing Canada and we wonder why. 20 some years ago Canada led the world in telecom. Maybe it's the cold weather?

The Canadian airport improvement fees frustrate a lot of visitors as well. It screams poor management. What would you think if bus or train stations asked for $25 in foreign currency after you already bought a ticket?!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Will Westjet let me fly home from YVR-YEG at Xmas for $100 every year if I ask nicely enough?


 You may ask  , but imho if many Canadians will write email to their PMs regarding this issue, may be something will be change.... and foreign airline companies will be on the market and Canadian ones will have no choice as reduce prices...
Just imagine Ryanair will be allowed to enter Canadian market and flight Toronto to Quebec City will cost like $50 


> Why do millions of Canadians chose to fly in and out of US border airports every year? Canadians pay the most for telecom in the world, and they pay orders of magnitude more for flights. Canadians seem fine with that.


 This is exactly my point! Do you think Lisbon people drive to Spain to catch cheaper flight?!



> makes you wonder why United, US Airways, Delta & American aren't using their size to undercut the Canadian players such as Air Canada & WestJet.


 are they allowed?! on the same conditions as Air Canada?!

Air fare is a bit different than telcos... Many families like us flying to Europe and never within Canada, mostly because of the ridiculous prices...and thus spend money to develop tourism in France and Spain, instead of BC and NB


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

gibor said:


> You may ask  , but imho if many Canadians will write email to their PMs regarding this issue, may be something will be change.... and foreign airline companies will be on the market and Canadian ones will have no choice as reduce prices...
> Just imagine Ryanair will be allowed to enter Canadian market and flight Toronto to Quebec City will cost like $50
> This is exactly my point! Do you think Lisbon people drive to Spain to catch cheaper flight?!
> 
> ...





> Apparently ... they are finding bargains ... in my case, except for two of the twelve weeks - the nearby US airports were more expensive than United/Delta/US Airways flying directly out of Canada.


 Checked now several dates and always flights from Chicago or NY are about 25% cheaper than from YYZ (to Victoria), from Detroit even cheaper... Funny that that flight from Detroit to Victoria with layover in Toronto on Air Canada is cheaper tan direct Toronto - Victoria


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> Clearly your rhetorical free market does not fly...


Perhaps you missed the tongue-in-cheek aspect and skipped over the later part where I was agreeing with you?

To be clear ... I was trying to suggest that there were more factors than the degree of competition involved.




m3s said:


> The Canadian airport improvement fees frustrate a lot of visitors as well. It screams poor management ...


Agreed ... though if I'm reading the charges on my last flight to San Francisco correctly ... in addition to customs, security etc., there was also a fee to the US Department of Agriculture. It is hard to sort out which fees are going to which airport/country.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor said:


> ... are they allowed?!


I based the list on US airlines that fly out of Pearson ... so as long as the fees that apply to everyone are covered, I have not heard of any restrictions setting a base fare level.




gibor said:


> ... on the same conditions as Air Canada?!


The differences I've read of are when there have been subsidies or bailouts for AC. 

If there were restrictions forcing a base fare to match AC's - I'd expect to hear complaints from US airlines.
Then too, with NAFTA suits being launched in recent years, I'd think an advantage to AC on such a broad scale would have sparked a suit ... but I'm not a expert.




gibor said:


> ... Funny that that flight from Detroit to Victoria with layover in Toronto on Air Canada is cheaper tan direct Toronto - Victoria


Yes ... just like before the online search engines for finding flights were better setup, I'd booked a one connection flight to California for $600, everything in. For whatever reason, I was offered a three connection flight with an insane travel time for the low, low price of $1700. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

btw, link about Air Emirates m3s was talking about
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emirates-pushing-canada-on-air-travel-1.925223



> the Harris/Decima survey found 61% of respondents agreed that foreign airlines should be allowed to compete with Canadian carriers.
> 
> The survey also found 77% agreed that foreign airlines would give consumers more travel options and 69% agreed they’d lead to lower costs.
> 
> “Consumers want choice and competition for their travel dollar,” Cran said in a statement Wednesday.


http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/17/canada-airlines-competition/

another good article



> In Canada, we remain beholden to Canadian-owned carriers if we want to fly between two Canadian cities. The result is an oligopoly that gouges travellers and takes their business for granted.
> 
> Ambarish Chandra of the University of Toronto found that, relative to Americans, we often pay between 50 and 100 per cent more for comparable travel between Canadian cities.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...our-airlines-need-competition/article6701280/

BUT OUR GOVERNMENT DOESN'T GIVE A SH&%


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

^^ Government is protecting Canadian jobs. Problem is this shelters poor business practices. Then when millions of Canadians decide to fly in and out of the US instead it no longer protects Canadian jobs anyways.




Eclectic12 said:


> Agreed ... though if I'm reading the charges on my last flight to San Francisco correctly ... in addition to customs, security etc., there was also a fee to the US Department of Agriculture. It is hard to sort out which fees are going to which airport/country.


That is ok if they included it in the ticket sale rather than as a hidden charge after you show up with your luggage. I will try to dig a little deeper into the airport fees in Canada. On the surface it seems that Canada charges airlines per use of airport security and the land whereas other countries consider these public (like how police and roads are public expense)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Government is protecting Canadian jobs


 This is controversial  
As you mention, many Canadians flying from US airports, the other thing ... many Canadians (include us) prefer to fly abroad becuase of ridiculously high prices here.... so tourist related industry is loosing jobs


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

With the low dollar it's actually becoming cheaper to fly out of Canada to some destinations.

http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Best+flight+deals+take+Vancouver+these+days/10830645/story.html


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> ... That is ok if they included it in the ticket sale rather than as a hidden charge after you show up with your luggage.


Perhaps this was a long time ago? Or where the traveler is not reading the fine print?

From a few quick queries on Expedia - the "Taxes, Fees and Charges" link is listing it, where I also recall from drilling into the full details of previous WestJet and Air Canada e-tickets seeing this, among other charges listed as part of the grand total.


I can recall complaints when the advertised price excluded these items and then when getting to the stage of putting in the CC number, the additional fees would popup a significant amount. So far, the only "at the airport" fees I've experienced are for checked bags and flight changes.

I'll see if my relative in California who flew up to Canada for a couple of visits has any comments.




m3s said:


> ... On the surface it seems that Canada charges airlines per use of airport security and the land whereas other countries consider these public (like how police and roads are public expense).


Interesting as when I was trying to be sure which fees were from Canada and which were from the US as part of my San Francisco trip - I hit upon a web site listing the fees the San Francisco airport charges to the airlines, some of which were per use.


Maybe it's a Europe versus North American thing?


Cheers


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I do not think they charge that extra airport improvement fee at the gate anymore... at least I've never been charged. The fees are all included in the ticket.

But I do remember 15+ years ago flying from Montreal to Halifax and was asked for $20 at the gate for these fees.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^

Interesting ... I don't ever recall being asked for a fee at the gate (except for checked baggage) unless I was in a foreign country.


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ASEAN pass gets you up to 10 flights/month on AirAsia for $160USD. That even beats the €20 Ryan Air flights

I've flown Air Asia. Although seats are small, there is much less chance the people next to you will be spilling into your lap as is common in some countries.


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## Sandra (May 14, 2015)

Absolutely share your point of view! it's ridiculous. I traveled to Russia this summer and from Yekaterinburg to Toronto I bought the ticket for 500$ ( of course it was Yekaterinburg-Moscow-Helsinki - Toronto) but still! 

I really like to travel inside Canada, but for now just by car because I'd rather fly home for my vacation and back, than to BC for example. Shock!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't even talk now about flights within Europe when prices are dirt cheap ... cheaper that 1 way taxi I take to airport (20 km) 
My friends going to Peru end of Aug, round ticket is $725 , I checked same time flight to Vancouver and it's .... $776 even though this flight is twice shorter ....


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Flights in Canada are very expensive, a ripoff in fact, but it is not all down to taxes and fees.

It is not until after you have flown in Europe and Asia that you realize just how expensive Canadian fares are in comparison to other countries. It is the same for cell phone rates and internet rates. 

Over the past year we have had flights on Air Malta, Vueling, AirAsia, Jetstar Australia, Virgin and TigerAir. Every flight, either short or long, came at much less on a KM basis that Canadian airlines. Our 10 hour flight from Kuala Lumpur to Gold Coast cost $250 this past Feb...and my spouse was assigned 3 seats in a row since she had suffered a back injury. That price included a meal, entertainment, and checking one bag. Our flight from Prague to Malta last Sept. was $75.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> It is not until after you have flown in Europe and Asia that you realize just how expensive Canadian fares are in comparison to other countries. It is the same for cell phone rates and internet rates.


 the question is why Canadian goverment is not encouraging competition is air space.... It would benefit both customers and Canada (tourism) ... We'd like to visit BC, AB, NL etc, but it's unreasonable expensive, so visiting other countries....


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I do not know.

Years ago, when we lived in Toronto and Ottawa, we wanted to take a vacation in Alberta/BC. I had been there but my spouse had not. When we worked it out, it was less expensive for us to go to Europe. That is what we did. Just as well because shortly after we moved to Calgary, then to Vancouver, and finally back to Calgary. 

A few years ago we were flying from Vancouver-Fort Lauderdale. Fare was $750. We flew from Seattle instead for $301 per person. We have friends in White Rock, BC who seldom fly out of Vancouver any more. They go to Bellingham or SeaTac. For both flights they buy and flights that they get on Aeroplan miles. An Aerplan 'free' flight that costs $450. each from Vancouver costs them $56. from SeaTac using their miles on United.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Years ago, when we lived in Toronto and Ottawa, we wanted to take a vacation in Alberta/BC. I had been there but my spouse had not. When we worked it out, it was less expensive for us to go to Europe.


 Same with us  For last 15 years we wanted to go to West Coast, but instead always going to Europe as it's cheaper....
Out of curiousity I checked price from Detroit to Vancouver on same dates and it's much cheaper


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## Sandra (May 14, 2015)

why is it so expansive??


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Sandra said:


> why is it so expansive??


Mafia


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