# Help required



## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and in urgent need of advice. My elderly father just sold his house in the middle of Toronto and now I need to help protect $1m+ in liquid funds. I know nothing about investing, very little about banking products beyond RRSP's, chequing/savings account and GIC's.

My main issue you is that my father is in his later eighties, has early onset dementia and prone to making hasty purchases. He has already given me access to his two bank accounts (joint account privileges) and wants me to help him deal with the cash. I have four other brothers and sisters but I have been tasked by Dad to help him make the financial decisions.

Since my Dad is in his later years we do not want or need to take any risks with the majority of the cash but 1.5% in a GIC seems so low. Because of his early on set dementia, I want to make taking out large sums of money difficult for him without completely taking away his right to his money. In other words, we want him to think he's in control of his cash when in reality we're looking after it for him. 

Besides the various GIC, saving/chequing account products the banks offer, are there any other avenues I should consider? We want as little risk as possible but would like the funds to garner as much interest as possible. However, because of his advanced age, we do not want to tie up the money long term pending and medical issues or needs he might have.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I know I have painted a broad picture of my situation but if any of you require further info, let me know.

Many thanks,

K


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I often run into a similar situation dealing with the reserve funds of condos. 

You could invest in a series of GICs. Say buy $75k 30 days, 60 days, 90 days...etc. Up to one year and have them each roll over to 1 year GICs (when the 30 days runs out it gets renewed for 1 year, eventuLly they all become 1 year GICs). That way, each month, 75k becomes available if needed and you get better rates for the longer term lock in. It can be set up with the bank to roll over automatically. 

Of course, some GICs don't have penalties for early cashing in, best to talk to the bank, each bank has different products and rates. With $1M you get access to better products and rates. See if your bank has a wealth management division, don't talk with the normal tellers.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

In my opinion, I think you are making the right move using GICs (do some research on GIC ladders). Perhaps you can look at high interest savings accounts as well if you need some liquidity.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

I agree with the above points. You might consider up to $100K at each individual institution on a HISA account such as EQ bank (paying 3%) or for each individual GIC at any one institution, and ladder these at intervals that make sense for your fathers needs.

$100K per account or per GIC (up to 5 yrs) is insured by CDIC so it is safe. 1.5% is low but typical but will be much lower for shorter duration GICs

However the HISA makes the cash more easily accessible. 


http://www.financialpost.com/personal-finance/rates/gic-annual.html


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## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

That's a great idea with the revolving GIC's. Thanks for that tip! I will definitely see if they (TD and CIBC) have a wealth management person I can speak with.

If you can think of anything please let me know! The closing date for his house is the third week of March so I have some time.

K


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## Sierra (Feb 19, 2016)

Your family should be looking at power of attorney set up if your fathers condition advances.
Outlook financial on line division of Assiniboine Credit Union is a great place for best GIC Rates Always cashable , also there savings acct Has paid 1.7 % int monthly for many years.
The best part is the deposits are insured for unlimited amount. This may not work for your situation as it is online. Going into a branch might not be available. 
This is why power of attorney would solve you doing the work. Just one Idea.
I am into about 5 different online banks including CIBC who right now are paying 1.75% Daily int and you can go to the branch too.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Both TD and CIBC have wealth management groups for high net worth individuals.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

I believe there is another option beyond power of attorney... Committeeship. This gives you an enhanced level of control if your father has advanced dementia.


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## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

How is EQ Bank able to offer such a "high" interest rate compared to all the others? I've never heard of them before...have they been around for a long time? Anyone else using them?


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

There is a thread in this forum directly about EQ Bank. 

here is some info: 

http://business.financialpost.com/n...account-to-lure-deposits-from-canadian-rivals

All of the banks have high net worth divisions but normally they charge a % of assets. For a simple GIC ladder IMO this is overkill and would eat most of your return. 

Search and google is your friend. Good luck Kellog


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

They do tend to charge for the accounts, I think TD is $100/month. However, they also give higher rates on things, so you'd have to do your math and see if it makes sense.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it would be unusual for a person to reach their late 80s, in possession of a house worth $1 million (your father just sold such a house) without any financial advisors whatsoever.

so i'm wondering, then, who your father's advisors might be? does he have a chartered accountant or a general accountant? a lawyer? who has been preparing his income tax returns? who was the lawyer that closed on the house deal? who has been selling other financial investments to your father over the years? 

if there is an undertone of concern in my message, this is because the situation sounds somewhat unstable to me. A very elderly gentleman in failing health should not suddenly be turning his back on - in effect firing - all his lifetime advisors in favour of an adult daughter or son who appears to have the best intentions in the world but declares that she or he knows little about financial management.

there are many critical issues to look into (does your father have a will? a living power of attorney? a health mandate?) & time is already getting short, as his health is deteriorating. I for one believe that the first order of business would be to review your father's immediate group of advisors to see which one(s) appear to be capable & trustworthy. Meet with each of them as necessary. 

you could ask each one for his views on how to invest the $1M but i feel that this issue is only Step No. Two in the process. What is of primary importance IMHO is creating a financial master plan for your father that will cover the rest of his life. This includes a will & the necessary powers-of-attorney before it is too late.

for a year or so, i believe you, father & family would benefit from a high quality professional advisor. If your father has a good CA or lawyer who has served him well for many years, it could be a good idea to continue, at least for this change-of-responsibility period.

i think it is unwise for two vulnerable persons - your failing father & yourself - to seek "advice" only from strangers on anonymous internet chat forums such as this one. Capable advice & support to get that financial plan up & running - including the will, the P/As, the choice of secure fixed income vehicles & the smaller choice of some common stock exposure as a counterweight to inflation - could cost a few thousand $$, but it will be money well spent if it brings you, your father & siblings peace of mind plus the security of someone you trust.

please keep in mind that your father will probably cooperate the most easily with a professional 3rd party. I'm hoping that you will look for & find one with high ethical standards & impeccable credentials.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

His house may have been his only investment. This isn't that uncommon. He just happens to live in Toronto where many have hit the housing jackpot. It's not a matter of savy investing, it was pure dumb luck.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

a history of luck or not makes no difference. One million $$ is still $1M. The gentleman is late elderly, already in failing health, his offspring admits lack of financial knowledge, there is no evidence that any of the legal paraphernalia or financial infrastructure that is critically needed is present or has even been thought about. 

questions concerning the father's future accommodations, his health care, his needs for supervised housing, his budget, whether annuities would help, what small portion of a portfolio might be earmarked for growth - all these issues need to be planned out.

bref, there's a lot of work that should be done. For an aging & vulnerable person's sake, it should be done properly.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I agree, I was just pointing out he probably doesn't have proper advisors...most people don't. Unlike people who make their money and need advisors along the way. Selling a house you bought 50+ years ago and working to build a million dollars through investing are very different paths.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> it would be unusual for a person to reach their late 80s, in possession of a house worth $1 million (your father just sold such a house) without any financial advisors whatsoever...


It wouldn't be the least bit unusual in Vancouver, humble_pie, and I understand that the real estate market in Toronto isn't much different. Our local newspaper had a front-page story last week saying there is not a single house in the city of Vancouver that would sell for under one million dollars, no matter how terrible its condition because that would be the lot value. So there are many, many seniors who find themselves with a million dollars (and often more) who have never had reason to consult with a financial advisor. That being said, I don't disagree with your advice that he do so now.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

Having had a parent with dementia, I advise you get the POA ASAP - your father is vulnerable until you do so. I made a mistake (healthwise rather than financial) by not wanting to take away my parent's freedom too quickly.

I agree that for such a large amount you should get a professional adviser, I would go with an independent one rather than a bank (who will steer you towards the bank's products).

The banks with the best interest rates are the online (i.e. they have no physical buildings to go to) like EQ (already mentioned) and Zag. Here's a site that gives a summary of current rates and a number of online banks:

https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Karen & Just a Guy - i see where you are coming from, of course.

but i was also mindful of the fact that seniors with dementia can sometimes decide to do things that are absolutely not rational. Dumping or even forgetting about one's normal financial professionals is a common behaviour. IMHO this is as likely as - perhaps more likely than - imagining that this elderly gentleman has zero financial contacts, not even a bank manager.

after all, _someone_ has been preparing the elderly gentleman's income tax returns all through the previous years. _Some_ lawyer signed off his house sale. _Some_ bank manager already has his bank account(s).

it seems sensible to me for a family member to start with the known advisors, to find out who they are & whether their services are able to meet an aging & already ill senior's critical needs for sound financial management.

as Joe Black says, the critical task right now is getting those legal papers - a will, a financial power of attorney plus a living or end-of-life mandate - drawn up & signed before all is too late.

considering the absence of such papers, fretting about whether a debutante online bank such as EQ might offer a fraction of a percentage more in interest rates while imposing stict limits on withdrawals is premature, IMHO.

next, consideration should turn to the entirety of this senior's income. A financial plan is necessary. What pensions, OAS, GIS are already in place? can annuities help? how to build a plan that will reliably draw down regular portions of the $1M capital over the remaining years of the senior's lifetime? 

most importantly of all, what are his health care accommodations going to cost? caring for seniors with dementia in a dignified manner is usually expensive ...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I find it funny how one's off-springs are so bloody concerned about 'money' that rightfully ain't there(seriously)
Scheming and master-minding about a parents wealth

But anyhow why not take Warren B's advice and dial it way back with a simple index approach
Ps-your father could prob give a rats *** about $$$
How would you approach tis through the looking glass Humble
If you were the aligning adult(with cognitive mental aspects)

Bottom line:it ain't the off-springs money to be with
Op should stop obsessing about other people money maybe?


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

donald said:


> I find it funny how one's off-springs are so bloody concerned about 'money' that rightfully ain't there(seriously)
> Scheming and master-minding about a parents wealth
> 
> But anyhow why not take Warren B's advice and dial it way back with a simple index approach
> ...


As someone who has been unwillingly thrust into parental finances due to illness and death of parents I find your comment highly offensive. It is far from unusual for aged parents to turn to their loved and trusted children for assistance with financial, personal, legal and health decisions. I've watched it happen with three generations of my own family, and see it happening now in the families of my friends. It is a lot of work.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Fair enough
point taken
was not trying to be offensive

I would hate to be the father though
If I am dying I would hope(if the op's parent is on that journey)
is that not fair though?


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## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

Humble pie, I thank you for some of your suggestions but please refrain on the judgement. Your comments Donald are rude, immature and ignorant. I thought this was an advice forum, not a place for insecure children.

Some of the other posters hit it on the head. We are middle class people and my father just happened to buy a house in the geographic centre of the city which now happens through no actions of ours to be worth a lot of money. My father is the classic case of cash poor, house rich.

My father doesn't "have" a lawyer. He has hired one in the past to validate his will and then to prepare his power of attorney papers. 

As I mentioned from the beginning, we do not want to risk any of the nest egg and it was my thought that a financial adviser might be overkill as we want to put the money in a very conservative vehicle. It may be ignorance on my part but I imagined a fin. adv. would want to direct me towards buying products that he will get a commission in and not our best interest. I think we're looking for some simple bank, branch level solutions. 

At any rate, I thank those of you who provided some constructive suggestions and the others I suggest having a drink and chilling out.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Kellog, I think you're on the right track. Keep it simple and safe to protect your fathers assets and ensure easy access to whatever care/funding he needs. 

I would review the will with professionals, ensure a POA, executor appointed etc and everything should be fine for all concerned, if you haven't done this already.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> I find it funny how one's off-springs are so bloody concerned about 'money' that rightfully ain't there(seriously)
> Scheming and master-minding about a parents wealth


So the off-spring *tasked* to look after it should make sure the parent spends it all? 

A bit jaded are we?




donald said:


> Ps-your father could prob give a rats *** about $$$


My parents involved my sister and I longer before they reached the point of not being able to follow what was happening and not caring.
Even today, mom will ask about where I live (despite me being in the same city for fifteen years) yet will at times want to know what is happening with the $$$.




donald said:


> Bottom line:it ain't the off-springs money to be with
> Op should stop obsessing about other people money maybe?


There is no indication the OP is obsessing about other people's money ... only that both parties be involved in large expenditures.
Of course all we have is one side of the story.

Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> ... I would hate to be the father though
> 
> If I am dying I would hope(if the op's parent is on that journey)
> is that not fair though?


Yes it was terrible to see Dad thrashing around trying to fix a tractor he hadn't owned for at least ten years.
It didn't change the fact he wanted us to take care of the $$$ and mom was too busy taking care of him to think about managing money or paying bills.


Just because some off spring are unscrupulous or out to ensure $$$ are saved for them does not mean all are.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Kellog said:


> ... As I mentioned from the beginning, we do not want to risk any of the nest egg and it was my thought that a financial adviser might be overkill as we want to put the money in a very conservative vehicle ...


Whether it is you or him, the best protection I have seen over the years is knowledge.

Don't be afraid to leave it in a low earning but stable investment while learning about the choices. Any short term loss by being conservative are usually outweighed dramatically by what others who jumped in without understanding have lost.

If you think something more aggressive might be of use in the future, after taking the time to learn ... I'd allocate percenatages, say 80% to the GIC and 20% to a more liquid investment. 

Keep in mind that any increasing expenses or additional expenses that could come in the next while need to be in the more liquid flavour. For example, we hired a retired nurse to provide coverage/comfort beyond what the limited hours the provincial healthcare plan provided. It was an easy decision to make as it was their money and most of us kids are self-sufficient.


Cheers


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## djkelly (Feb 18, 2016)

Because

you are dealing with a substantial sum of money,
your father is relatively close to end of life and has medical issues,
you're a self admitted novice at investing, and
there is very little chance you can give all the required financial information in this forum for it's members (experienced and novice, right and wrong) to give you wholly appropriate advice,
i would recommend you hire a "fee for service" financial planner. (Someone who doesn't sell any financial products, so you can ensure you are getting unbiased advice.) This will probably cost you $1000-$2000 dollars to create the financial plan, but in your case I think the money would be well spent.

Here is a decent place to start looking for one: http://www.moneysenseapproved.com/findanadvisor

All the best! With some diligence I think you will be able to do a good job of protected your father's financial assets. He's lucky to have you looking out for him.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Kellog said:


> I know nothing about investing, very little about banking products beyond RRSP's, chequing/savings account and GIC's.
> 
> My main issue you is that my father is in his later eighties, has early onset dementia and prone to making hasty purchases. He has already given me access to his two bank accounts (joint account privileges) and wants me to help him deal with the cash. I have four other brothers and sisters but I have been tasked by Dad to help him make the financial decisions.
> 
> Since my Dad is in his later years we do not want or need to take any risks with the majority of the cash but 1.5% in a GIC seems so low. Because of his early on set dementia, I want to make taking out large sums of money difficult for him without completely taking away his right to his money. In other words, we want him to think he's in control of his cash when in reality we're looking after it for him.



wondering who are *we?* you've already excluded the 4 siblings, who else could be closely involved in your father's care?

in a well-functioning family, all of the offspring will contribute in some fashion to a parent's care, as best each can. It's true that sometimes this does not seem like very much contribution to the one who is the primary care-giver! but still, all the lines of communication should be open. 

alas the way you appear to be planning things - ie all decisions not shared with/concealed from the siblings, deliberately opaque & not clear with the elderly parent either, somehow working in tandem with at least one other unidentified party - alas this reads like a recipe for future shock from the siblings. Has your father already given you a power-of-attorney over his legal & financial affairs? in that case, you would be on firm ground ... but you have not said that this is the case.


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## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

Again with the judgment humble pie? Whose being excluded? Do you think for one moment that perhaps, maybe, some siblings live out of the country (on other continents), are busy running their own business' or families etc? Did you consider that although I may have been "tasked" to deal with this that perhaps everyone is being kept in the loop and that their suggestions or ideas are all on the table?

"In a well functioning family..."? Ha ha, maybe you're a comedy writer and just trying to bait me? Really, too funny!

To all the sane people out there, I was just looking for a little friendly advice which many of you did offer and I thank you. 

To Humble Pie, get a life dude. The negativity is a bit much.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Kellog,
We ran through a similar scenario a year ago with Mom & Dad after they sold their house. Not as large an amount ($350k) and they need to draw from the proceeds on an ongoing basis to supplement their CPP/OAS now that they are in a retirement apt.
We went to their bank (CIBC), sat with their 'financial advisor' and told them we wanted a GIC ladder of $70k in 1,2,3,4,5 yr compound terms, we also negotiated for approx. 0.25% over posted rates. This after ensuring their TSFA's were max'd out to shelter what we could. 
The 1 yr GIC just matured, the intent is to keep half for expenses and TSFA top-up, and then roll the other half into a 5yr term. This will be repeated as each of 2,3,4, and 5 mature.

Recognize that in real terms they are not earning anything - after inflation their purchasing power is actually eroding - but it is risk-free and that was their priority. (in fact they do have other funds in a bank income fund which provides some potential for better performance - or not ).

Their health has continued to deteriorate, and last month Mom & Dad decided to implement the PofA and allow sister & I (2 of 4 siblings) to manage their accounts (GIC rollovers, TSFA contributions, bills, etc). We all went into the bank with a notarized PofA for property, reviewed with them and filled in some ID paperwork. The PofA requires you to act on their behalf in their best interest (as opposed to going the joint acc route which has liability and oversight risk). The bank adds a layer of oversight to this (i.e. if I went in to remove $25k with no explanation, the bank is likely to ask what the funds are intended for).

Good luck.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

I agree with the other comments that a POA should be set up ASAP, preferably while your father is still able to provide some input.

Security for the money is the most important thing...any minor gains that may be realized on investments are not as important as keeping the money as safe as possible.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^

according to post # 22 upthread, the father has already signed a proper power of attorney that was drafted for him by a lawyer.

one of the problems here seems to be that kellog is not the appointed attorney.




Kellog said:


> My father doesn't "have" a lawyer. He has hired one in the past to validate his will and then to prepare his power of attorney papers.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Kellog,
> We ran through a similar scenario a year ago with Mom & Dad after they sold their house. Not as large an amount ($350k) and they need to draw from the proceeds on an ongoing basis to supplement their CPP/OAS now that they are in a retirement apt.
> We went to their bank (CIBC), sat with their 'financial advisor' and told them we wanted a GIC ladder of $70k in 1,2,3,4,5 yr compound terms, we also negotiated for approx. 0.25% over posted rates. This after ensuring their TSFA's were max'd out to shelter what we could ...
> 
> Their health has continued to deteriorate, and last month Mom & Dad decided to implement the PofA and allow sister & I (2 of 4 siblings) to manage their accounts (GIC rollovers, TSFA contributions, bills, etc). We all went into the bank with a notarized PofA for property, reviewed with them and filled in some ID paperwork. The PofA requires you to act on their behalf in their best interest (as opposed to going the joint acc route which has liability and oversight risk). The bank adds a layer of oversight to this (i.e. if I went in to remove $25k with no explanation, the bank is likely to ask what the funds are intended for).




onlyMO the 2 situations are not comparable in the least.

in your case, you have posted in cmf forum many times, across several years, always with plenty of good common sense & always with smart financial insight. Enough so that every cmffer knows - beyond a shadow of a doubt - that you will always act wisely & safely to help & protect your parents.

par contre, total stranger Kellog debuted here yesterday with an infantile fantasy about how she wants to invest & manage $1,000,000 for her elderly ailing father, all without any knowledge or experience or plan or even any consultation with appropriate parties.

she keeps on refusing to consult bank managers, proper advisors or siblings. Not only refusing, but flying off the handle into sulks, insults & tantrums whenever reasonable consultations are politely suggested.

as far as we know, Kellog has no legal power of attorney to act. It appears she intends to cruise ahead in isolated splendour, without any financial or legal underpinning of any nature.

if it weren't that a vulnerable ailing senior is involved, the attitude would be comical. But because of the ailing senior, ithe situation is very sad.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Humble,
I agree with your concerns. 
I just thought I'd provide our experience as an example. 
What I find concerning is the comment that Kellog has joint account ownership on the father's accounts when there are other siblings in the family (i.e. possible estate beneficiaries). 
As a joint owner of those accounts, Kellog can technically/legally do whatever they want with the money in them. But what is the father's intent for those accounts as part of their estate? How will these joint accounts be dealt with when he passes? Will other beneficiaries challenge the arrangement and past expenditures from these accounts? Have they considered that the prospect of easy money can quickly alter the dynamics of a family and its siblings?
If Kellog has a spouse and that relationship was unfortunate enough to unravel, will the ex make a claim on those accounts? Is Kellog at any risk from creditors who might claim those accounts? etc. 
I'm frankly surprised if the bank did not counsel and express some of these concerns to the father when the accounts were made joint.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> wondering who are *we?* you've already excluded the 4 siblings, who else could be closely involved in your father's care?
> 
> in a well-functioning family, all of the offspring will contribute in some fashion to a parent's care, as best each can. It's true that sometimes this does not seem like very much contribution to the one who is the primary care-giver! but still, all the lines of communication should be open.
> 
> alas the way you appear to be planning things - ie all decisions not shared with/concealed from the siblings, deliberately opaque & not clear with the elderly parent either, somehow working in tandem with at least one other unidentified party - alas this reads like a recipe for future shock from the siblings. Has your father already given you a power-of-attorney over his legal & financial affairs? in that case, you would be on firm ground ... but you have not said that this is the case.


In an ideal world all siblings would take on equal responsibility and decision making. Unfortunately real life is usually not ideal. Sometimes one or more of the siblings will prefer to leave everything up to the "responsible" one in the family. "Whatever you think is best..." sums up their contribution. The important thing right now is to protect a vulnerable parent, which means decision making *right now*. If the less involved siblings are later shocked, so be it, they don't have a right to complain later after happily having let the primary care-giver do all the hard work.

The OP is doing the best he can in an unfamiliar situation - you have no right to question his decisions.

Regarding your remark about him being "deliberately opaque & not clear" to the parent, his condition is already making things "opaque & not clear" to this person. I don't think you have ever been in this situation. The care giver needs to simplify things and provide reassurance. This is not disrespecting the parent, it is simply dealing with the reality of the situation. It's not possible to have open and clear communications with someone who will just forgot everything you "communicated" 5 minutes after it happened.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> par contre, total stranger Kellog debuted here yesterday with an infantile fantasy about how she wants to invest & manage $1,000,000 for her elderly ailing father, all without any knowledge or experience or plan or even any consultation with appropriate parties.
> 
> she keeps on refusing to consult bank managers, proper advisors or siblings. Not only refusing, but flying off the handle into sulks, insults & tantrums whenever reasonable consultations are politely suggested.
> 
> as far as we know, Kellog has no legal power of attorney to act. It appears she intends to cruise ahead in isolated splendour, without any financial or legal underpinning of any nature.


Incredibly disrespectful! "sulks, insults & tantrums" describes your posts, not hers!

She did not come here with an "infantile fantasy" how to manage the money, she came here asking for advice from us how to manage it. I doubt she'll make that mistake again.

We have someone here taking on huge burden in an unfamiliar situation, and all you have been doing from the start is insinuate selfish motives. You really are the enforcer of the "no good deed goes unpunished" rule.

You should change your handle from Humble to God, since you like being so judgmental.


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## RUSH2112 (Mar 25, 2012)

The right thing to have done is, have a meeting with your other four siblings and a financial planner.

I can see how this is going to end.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We have a had a few new postings in the past from people seeking advice on how to manage their parents finances, and on at least one or two occasions as the layers of the onion were pulled back, it became obvious the poster's interest were not aligned with their parents interest and forum members recognized it for what it was.

*Not saying this is happening in this instance*, but to assume everyone can and will manage their parents money in an appropriate and prudent way is assuming a lot.

We have had posters want information on how to illegally avoid taxes, screw somebody out of a house, and other things as well.

Humble always keeps a sharp eye out for wayward posters............and could maybe...maybe get it wrong, but in most cases has been dead right on and one of the few CMF members who will post what others are thinking.

So let's remember to welcome new posters and help them out, but not accept everything they say as the gospel truth. It is often what they don't say that tells the tale.

No need for anyone to be offended if questions are asked. Maybe as a group we should be asking for more detail before laying out solutions.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

RUSH2112 said:


> The right thing to have done is, have a meeting with your other four siblings and a financial planner.
> 
> I can see how this is going to end.


+1

Maybe not how it is, but how it could end.

We went through this with a family member, and found out all kinds of things were going on without our knowledge. 

We started digging into the finances after we received a letter from the bank demanding a collateral loan be repaid immediately. The loan was on our land and it was taken out by the estate trustee.

There was a lot of money unaccounted for, but what do you do when it is a family member involved...........call the police ?

The rest of the family just let it slide.........but they weren't happy about it all.


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## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

I am going to assume you all have the best of intentions. I'll give you a bit more information to put your minds at ease.

My intention in placing a post here was to gather a bit of free info from financial "enthusiasts". To put your mind at ease, my siblings will all be involved in any final decisions. My father has not lost all his marbles he just has a terrible memory at this point and in my opinion, emotionally vulnerable. He to will be involved in the process. I will be speaking to my accountant, the bank(s) as my father banks with two institutions.

To some of you it will be a great relief to discover that I am not a complete moron. Did you think for one second I'd take anyone's advice and run straight away to execute the plan of a complete stranger, from the depths of internet no less? 

Once again, (this is for you humble pie), I'm simply looking for some creative ideas on what to do with my family's money. This is a discussion forum right?

So let's start fresh. Pretend it's your father who is almost ninety, his memory and decision making powers are diminished. Now he's looking to you for some advice on what to do with $1m+. Dad still has a pension coming in every month, enough to cover all of his day to day expenses. 

GIC Ladder is in the lead...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Great, so the little bit of news that your father has enough income in pensions every month is a game changer.

The money is not needed on a day to day basis, and your concern that your dad may get conned by someone, or give money away...........is a very valid concern.

Since returns on the capital aren't needed to pay the bills, I think the GIC ladder is your best solution.

It will generate some interest and guarantee no loss of capital, and also if family members ask "where is dad's money"..........it is a much easier explanation to tell them it is in sturdy and safe GICs than try to explain a complicated investment portfolio.

The cost to manage the GICs would be virtually nothing once set up. They can set that up at the bank and I would recommend staying with the 5 big banks in Canada.

My son is 29 and I put his retirement savings into 90% equities and 10% bonds. He has 30 or more years until retirement and the ups and downs of the stock market is immaterial at his age.

I am 65 and my wife is 69.............all of our money is in GICs, but like your dad we have more than sufficient income from pensions and CPP/OAS to pay the bills.

The older a person is..........the less risk they should take on. Some people however are "forced" to take on risk because they need the money to pay the bills.

If the situation changes, you can always invest GICs into the stock market as they come due, if you are comfortable with doing so by then.

Many a retiree has slept well with enough income to pay the bills and a cushion in GICs if they need or want to spend some.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

By the way and totally off topic, I like your user handle.

I recently was looking for a retro cookie jar, and found one that was the 100th Anniversary cookie jar issued by the Kelloggs company.

It was brand new still in the box, and I purchased it because of childhood memories of touring the Kelloggs plant here in London, Ontario.

When I was a kid we used to walk to the plant every day in the summer and take a plant tour. They gave us a snack pack and then we would go across the street and tour the Coke plant to get a bottle of cold Coke.

We would sit in the park and eat the cereal and drink the Coke...............a perfect summer day for a bunch of rag tag kids.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=kell...isch&q=kellogg's+100th+anniversary+cookie+jar

Cheers.....


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

One contingency to plan for is the unfortunate fact that these conditions usually get worse over time and medical bills start getting higher. The cost of a full care nursing home that can care for dementia patients starts around $2500/month and is much higher for the premium facilities. So I think you should keep a rather large liquid "emergency" fund, probably in the form of a HISA.


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## Kellog (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks for the tips Sags and J Black. Cornflakes is my only cereal! How sad I know...

Going back to Just A Guy's suggestion,is it possible to keep rolling the 30, 60, 90, 120 (etc.) day turnover of GIC's running all year long so that there is always one "maturing". If the money is not needed for his care, we can then just send it for another roll. I assume that this is just a filter attribute that the bank can apply. |I'm sure they will ant to try and tie it up longer but we're not going to do that.

We will probably always try to have $10 or $20 free for any surprise emergency's.

Meeting with the accountant today so it will be interesting what he has to say.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

It is possible to have as much or little rolling over with the rest having a portion coming due yearly.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-make-a-little-more-at-no-risk/article791134/
http://canadianfinanceblog.com/build-a-guaranteed-investment-certificate-gic-ladder/

Where one builds the structure ... one will know exactly how much is short term (ex. rolling up to 120 day), how much is mid term (i.e. one year) and how much is long term (i.e. five year). One may decide that a % in the 120 day is sufficient and a full operational setup (i.e. 20% of remainder comes due every year, with everything in 5 year GICs) meets one's needs.

I would look carefully at the rolling 30/60/90/120 as other posts seem to says that HISAs can come close without any lock in (nice for the short term stuff).

There are cashable GICs which may make less interest but if it significantly beats the short term choices, may be more to one's liking.


If you want to bypass sales pitches for equities, there is more than enough total to set up accounts with brokers that would allow one to buy the GICs directly. The down side is that one would have to keep track of when it is due and what is available at the renewal time.


Cheers


*PS*

Good luck with meeting with the accountant.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

Eclectic12 said:


> I would look carefully at the rolling 30/60/90/120 as other posts seem to says that HISAs can come close without any lock in (nice for the short term stuff).


+1
At Tangerine, any GIC less than 1-year has a smaller rate than their regular savings account (0.5% vs 0.8%). I actually wonder why they even offer them, who would lock in money at smaller rate rather than keep it liquid at a higher one?

Quick searches indicate similar rate differences at TD and Scotia. Meanwhile, there are some much better rates being offered for the savings accounts at some of the online banks, like Zag (2.5%) and EQ (3%) - although these often get lowered within a few months.


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