# WIND mobile is being shut down?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

A judge has struck down the Harper cabinet’s 2009 decision to overrule the CRTC and let a cell carrier with Egyptian ties operate in Canada.

“That decision was based on errors of law and must be quashed,” Mr. Justice Roger Hughes of Federal Court wrote on Friday.

He put in place a 45-day stay of judgment in order to avoid chaos and give the carrier, Globalive, a chance to go back to the federal telecom regulator. This means Globalive can keep operating for now.


Here's a quote from an online source...


> The appeal to Federal Court was brought by Public Mobile, a wireless competitor. It had asked for the judicial review, arguing the Harper cabinet exceeded its authority when it allowed Globalive and its Wind Mobile brand to operate despite the fact it wasn't sufficiently Canadian-owned or controlled for the Canadian Radio-television Telecommunications Commission.
> 
> The decision comes one day after the Conservatives signalled they would overturn another CRTC decision, on Internet billing. It leaves Wind Mobile hanging.
> 
> "I've got another fight on my hands," said Globalive chairman Anthony Lacavera, which now runs Wind Mobile. "We're disappointed. We're assessing our options and we will fight it vigorously."


I am currently with WIND for my cell and internet..and it is a great deal
after being "robbed" by B*LL and R*gers in the past.

I can't understand in these days of global competition, why the CRTC 
would take such a back room approach to shutting down a viable and
successful operation, just because it's not completely Canadian owned.

They collect HST and remit that to the Feds, so what is the problem?
If they start shutting down foreign owned operations, why not shut down
Walmart, Target, H-D, Lowes and so on.

I'm sure that the "big three" had something to do with this, as WIND and
other newcomers in the telecommuncations market are very successful
offering consumers better rates and a chance to get away from the 
(practically)monopolies that have dominated our landscape for so long.

Ok, maybe it's because the established carriers have infrastructure that
they own and must maintain and "crying fowl" when newcomers on the scene, just jump in
rent that infrastructure,and encourage migration of customers from the established carriers, 
but consumers need a break too!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I'd say it is _extremely_ likely that the CRTC is being "influenced" by the big 3.
If you take this CRTC decision in conjunction with the usage based billing decision (UBB), I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that CRTC is in cohorts with the big 3 telecoms.
Maybe the big 3 are funding an "expense account" for the CRTC board/management, similar to the Toronto social housing board scam.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

To be fair, the CRTC is following the law. The law says telcos have to be Canadian owned. Objectively speaking, Globalive is not Canadian owned. It's pretty simple.

You really don't want the CRTC to just do whatever they think is right or popular. They're like a court. They evaluate cases based on the laws of the land. Don't like it? Change the law. The government is weaseling out of changing the foreign ownership laws. If you want to blame anyone, the buck stops there.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I agree, the law should be changed. Give us more choice!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> To be fair, the CRTC is following the law. The law says telcos have to be Canadian owned. Objectively speaking, Globalive is not Canadian owned. It's pretty simple.
> 
> You really don't want the CRTC to just do whatever they think is right or popular. They're like a court. They evaluate cases based on the laws of the land. Don't like it? Change the law. The government is weaseling out of changing the foreign ownership laws. If you want to blame anyone, the buck stops there.


That's a archaic law set up many many years ago when there probably was
just Bell with their Federal charter to operate in Ont/Quebec. All other
provinces have telcos with provincial charters that allow more freedom to
pursue business..Ie: Telus i n Ontario. 

Hard to say what will happen in the next 45 days or so, but if being 
Canadian owned is a requirement, then Globalive just needs to setup
shares on the stock market, sell some of their interest to a Canadian
owner and have their customers have a say like a petition to the CRTC
that we want an affordable choice.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I'm all for smashing the monopoly of Bell, Rogers and Telus.
In mobile service, Internet service, landline service, everything.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Regardless of whether the law is archaic, etc. it's still the law. If it doesn't make sense anymore, it needs to be repealed. We can't just ignore it.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

So how did everyone overlook this pretty significant law in the first place? What a gong show

I don't get why our Cdn companies are allowed to outsource the CSRs, tech support and who knows what to India, but globalization doesn't work the other way around? So we lose the jobs/service as well as the competition, thanks CRTC


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> So how did everyone overlook this pretty significant law in the first place? What a gong show
> 
> I don't get why our Cdn companies are allowed to outsource the CSRs, tech support and who knows what to India, but globalization doesn't work the other way around? So we lose the jobs/service as well as the competition, thanks CRTC


I have no idea how things get this far before someone points it out.

It'd be a shame if Wind went out of business. Canada needs more competition. We have some of the worst mobile phone rates in the developed world:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2009/08/11/canada-cellphone-rates-expensive-oecd.html



> The average Canadian cellphone user is paying among the highest bills in the developed world, according to a new international study.
> 
> Using a comparison package of 780 calls made, 600 text messages and eight multimedia messages sent per year, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development found that Canada has the third-highest wireless rates among developed countries. The United States had the highest rates for this "medium-usage" package, followed by Spain.
> 
> ...


I don't know if the CRTC is influenced by the big 3 or they're just stupid. Neither is very reassuring. Maybe we've got our own versions of Ted Stevens on the CRTC.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Globalive contends that their ownership is Canadian. They took their case to the CRTC and were denied. The federal government overturned that decision and now that decision has been reinstated.

I want the competition, and I want the government to find the guts to change the foreign ownership laws. I don't know where their backbone has gone.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

andrewf said:


> I want the competition, and I want the government to find the guts to change the foreign ownership laws. I don't know where their backbone has gone.


Methinks, the govt. wants _some_ foreign ownerhsip/competition, but not a lot.
They are trying to eat their cake, and have it too.
Once the laws are changed, that'll open the floodgates.
That'll bring in all and sundry, from the Verizons and the Sprints from the US, from the Vodaphones and Reliances from the east, etc.
The govt. is trying to say, I want one or two foreign investors but don't want to sell out the telecom sector.
At least that's the only rational explanation I can think of - the rest is politics as usual.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

They could change the law to allow foreign owned competitors with say, 10% market share. I'm not concerned about Vodafone owning the pipe, myself.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Globalive contends that their ownership is Canadian. They took their case to the CRTC and were denied. The federal government overturned that decision and now that decision has been reinstated.
> 
> I want the competition, and I want the government to find the guts to change the foreign ownership laws. I don't know where their backbone has gone.


According to what I have found out, the "ownership" question is the key
thing that the judge ruled on, and CRTC wants another hearing to determine
how much of it is Egyptian. If it's 50-50..hard to say how it rule, however if
it is 51% Cdn and 49% Egyptian, I can't see how CRTC can deny it the
right to conduct business in Canada, When I called WIND to find out if
my service was going to be cut in "45 days", they told me not to worry, that
this has happened before, and it's just another skirmish for them.
However, if all legal avenues are exhausted and they are forced by law to
shut down, they will compensate the subscribers.


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