# get on airbnb.COM not .CA from canada?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

any of you internet whizzes in here know how I can get on to airbnb.COM not airbnb.ca ?
or, how i can get prices in US not Cdn $ , for US locations?
(I haven't signed up with airbnb)


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## jerryhung (Mar 28, 2011)

Don't you just change the language/currency at bottom? Then you can see the native LOCAL currency

Note that paying by Canadian CC may change the currency at check-out page (e.g. AMEX used to be only to pay in USD $, whether it's Canada or Europe airbnb. Now I think it's gone??)

Obviously, PM someone to refer you to you both win-win


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Agree with the above. That is how we get billed in USD for stays in the US. Have it billed to my Amazon Visa as well, for the better exchange vig.

Also, to be clear, if you know someone already on Airbnb, get them to refer you before you sign up. They get a little money for the referral and so do you.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Seeing this piece of news - I'm not sure how comfortable I would even want to "try" Airbnb. Imagine, after a long flight or day out, having to worry about being spied on or even worst, searching for one of these buggers planted in the bathroom! :hororr: 

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/09/10/toronto-police-investigating-after-a-couple-says-they-found-a-hidden-camera-in-their-airbnb.html
*
Toronto police investigating after couple say they found a hidden camera in their Airbnb*


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Yeah. 'Cause that *never* happens in hotels...


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Perhaps, a much lesser chance of happening in a legit hotel ... imagine it happening in a 5 stars hotel.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

jerryhung said:


> Don't you just change the language/currency at bottom? Then you can see the native LOCAL currency
> 
> Note that paying by Canadian CC may change the currency at check-out page (e.g. AMEX used to be only to pay in USD $, whether it's Canada or Europe airbnb. Now I think it's gone??)
> 
> Obviously, PM someone to refer you to you both win-win


Yes you cant set USD or whatever you want at the bottom right. Haven't tried to pay in USD

Referral bonus is currently $25 CAD



Beaver101 said:


> Seeing this piece of news - I'm not sure how comfortable I would even want to "try" Airbnb. Imagine, after a long flight or day out, having to worry about being spied on or even worst, searching for one of these buggers planted in the bathroom! :hororr:


airbnb bans those who don't follow their policy and obviously they were being investigated

If you believe everything on sensationalized news will happen to you, you should never leave home without a thick tinfoil hat. My experience with airbnb is I pay a fraction of the price for the same or often better accommodations.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> airbnb bans those who don't follow their policy and obviously they were being investigated


 ... I would hope so as one incidence is all too many and I don't suppose there're only a few airbnb owners in any major metropolitan.



> If you believe everything on sensationalized news will happen to you, you should never leave home without a thick tinfoil hat.


 ... yep, including airlines. I guess so-to-be charges for carry-ons and perhaps use of the bathrooms are nothing to sweat over too. 



> My experience with airbnb is I pay a fraction of the price for the same or often better accommodations.


... I guess you do get better service for a much cheaper price ... do they throw in free bedbugs also?


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I guess you do get better service for a much cheaper price ... do they throw in free bedbugs also?


You don't think hotels get bedbugs ? Or is this just some personal animosity you have towards airbnb ?

If you do, may I suggest vrbo as a better target.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I'm sure hotel get bedbugs but not as easily. Moreover, I'm sure they wouldn't want to risk their reputation to not being able to control that problem or any other problems for their customers. As for Airbnb, it would be like the wildwest ... customers are taking their chances since these places are not licensed or follow the necessary regulations, not just on bedbugs but others such as fire-violations, etc. 

And no I don't have a **personal** or any animosity against Airbnb. (Or people who host their real propert(ies) under Airbnb). In fact, I was thinking of trying it for an upcoming trip to save some $$$ but when I saw that news-clip, no thanks very much. And please don't let me stop you from using or hosting Airbnb for that matter. We have a democratic country here. 

And there's no need for me to target vrbo (whatever the hxll that is) as I'm sticking to the licensed establishments - even they may cost me multiple times more. I'm certain licensed establishments aka legit hotels will have adequate liability insurance to back up any disasters that their guests may encounter at their places.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Nah, man. Get out there and try something new. Airbnb is great. Stick to the well reviewed properties with lots of guests. You'll do fine.

We've used Airbnb in 6 countries. About 15 times in total. Haven't had a bad one yet. Sooo much better than hotels. More character,
better facilities for cooking/laundry, quieter, better sleep. 

In fact, I wouldn't go back to using just hotels. Ohh,, the horror.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

OP HERE- getting back to my orig. question(s) i cant figure out how toget onto .com, not.ca
and, i'm using my i pad and i cant seem to EVER get to the BOTTOM OF THE PAGE to change currency or whatever, it just keeps srolloin & scrolling & scrolling more listings..never reaching th bottom of the page
what am i doing wrong?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

On my PC, scrolling doesn't work - there's a little "floating" button at the bottom right that lets you change the currency. You're right, if you scroll you will be scrolling all day. I don't know if that floating button doesn't appear on iPad. 

I found a way though - if you don't have the floating button. Click on any listing, and scroll to the bottom, you will find the currency selector at the bottom right. 

But, I clicked on it for science, and it didn't take me to .com, it left me on .ca (but any listings I viewed were in USD). I don't know if that suits your needs or if you actually need to be on .com.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

It has been suggested Airbnb makes 3% on the currency vig. I suspect it is much more.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

So if you actually want to get to .com then you need to get a VPN and select USA so that your IP address appears US to airbnb.. mind you many USA based sites won't let you pay without a USA based card with a USA billing address.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Airbnb knowingly list illegal rentals. That tells me all I need to know. I do not do business with companies that are unethical and knowingly break the law. If I did, that would make me an 'accessory after the fact' as they say. The only time they remove a listing is when they are forced to do so by municipalities as so many are now doing. Are those who profess to like airbnb aware that they hide behind the legality of, 'we are only a listing company and tell our listers 'that it is their responsibility to make sure they comply with local laws.' If that isn't a way to cop out of responsibility for their own actions, I don't know what is. Why do they not accept responsibility for vetting their listers? Answer, because they make money from listing properties, not from refusing to list illegal rental properties.

The success of airbnb has been driven by one simple thing, that is greed on both the part of those who rent a property out and those who choose to stay in those properties. What started out as a simple idea of renting out an air mattress (hence the name) in your home for a night, has become very big business. It is no longer a spare room rented occasionally for a few extra dollars. Now it is dominated by owners listing multiple properties and who are operating de facto hotels but without the regulations hotel must operate under. Now it is impacting the lives of ordinary people who are being priced out of the market for buying a home or turfed out of their apartment because their landlord can make more money renting by the night. If you are using airbnb, that is what you are contributing to whether you like the idea of admitting to that or not.

Everything we do in life should not always be about just ourselves. 'It works for me' is not a justification for harming others. When I read a post where someone says, 'we have been very happy with our airbnb rentals', what I hear is it is about ME only and I have no regard for whether a company is unethical in it's practices or whether it affects anyone else negatively. As long as it benefits ME, I have no other considerations. 

https://bemusedbackpacker.com/2017/10/23/is-airbnb-unethical-and-irresponsible/


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

https://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C......0i22i30k1j35i39k1j0i20i263k1.0.2kpX2BGYcZU

https://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C...0.1442...0j0i22i30k1j0i20i263k1.0.NYLmepJ7zTQ


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Everything we do in life should not always be about just ourselves. 'It works for me' is not a justification for harming others. When I read a post where someone says, 'we have been very happy with our airbnb rentals', what I hear is it is about ME only and I have no regard for whether a company is unethical in it's practices or whether it affects anyone else negatively. As long as it benefits ME, I have no other considerations.
> 
> https://bemusedbackpacker.com/2017/10/23/is-airbnb-unethical-and-irresponsible/


Good article. AirBNB has been a problem here in Vancouver.

The linked article on over-tourism is also a good read. The modern obsession with travel is having detrimental effects in more ways than one.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

is there anything like a sort of "reverse" airbnb, or VRBO site...?
I mean where a person can go on & say they're looking for accommodation in a certain place, for certain dates etc. - and let any owners reply to THEM.
now THAT would be a good idea!


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> The success of airbnb has been driven by one simple thing, that is greed on both the part of those who rent a property out and those who choose to stay in those properties. What started out as a simple idea of renting out an air mattress (hence the name) in your home for a night, has become very big business. It is no longer a spare room rented occasionally for a few extra dollars. Now it is dominated by owners listing multiple properties and who are operating de facto hotels but without the regulations hotel must operate under. Now it is impacting the lives of ordinary people who are being priced out of the market for buying a home or turfed out of their apartment because their landlord can make more money renting by the night. If you are using airbnb, that is what you are contributing to whether you like the idea of admitting to that or not.


That's just your opinion, one of many, of what the "problem" is. All you focus on is the few minorly affected renters and the "unfairness" towards big business.

The other side, is that the success of these companies, and uber-type companies as well, is because _the people_ don't want such intrusive government restrictions/regulations on how businesses can offer to supply/arrange their housing & transportation needs. It is proof positive that regular citizens, consumers, don't care all that much about things like safety regulations, zoning, insurance, etc. All of these regulations have been put in place and become increasingly stringent over the decades on the premise that this is what the people wanted and asked for because it "protects" them, and the government provided. This is completely fabricated and a façade. The real origin was always from the government, to increase the control and power they wield over the population, and to enrich the select few who further wield power over the politicians to block out competition.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

peterk said:


> ... The other side, is that the success of these companies, and uber-type companies as well, is because _the people_ don't want such intrusive government restrictions/regulations on how businesses can offer to supply/arrange their housing & transportation needs. It is proof positive that regular citizens, consumers, don't care all that much about things like safety regulations, zoning, insurance, etc.... The real origin was always from the government, to increase the control and power they wield over the population, and to enrich the select few who further wield power over the politicians to block out competition.


Sounds like the beginning elements of a paranoid conspiracy theory to me. Could be taken from the pages of a US anti-government militia group.

I agree that consumers often don't care about much except saving a buck and that can be a problem. And I agree that over-regulation is not good, but there does need to be regs, zoning, insurance, etc.

The wild west disappeared for good reason.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree with government regulation to a certain point. Seat belts are good in a country where we all share the medical costs

But when taxis cost a fortune for disgusting cars and drivers who barely speak english it's clear where all the money is going

I would happily pay more for uber and airbnb for a reasonable amount of regulation because they will offer a more efficient modern alternative to the outgoing status quo

If old people want to pay more for dirty old slow taxi because they can't fathom a change that is their prerogative. But don't stifle innovation for the rest of us


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> ...But when taxis cost a fortune for disgusting cars and drivers who barely speak english...


Hyperbole? Perhaps a person should choose their cab company more carefully - their experience will be different. 



> If old people want to pay more for dirty old slow taxi because they can't fathom a change that is their prerogative. But don't stifle innovation for the rest of us


Hmmm, again eh. Dissing 'old people' seems to be habitual. If your parents had lived to be old they would be embarrassed.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Hyperbole? Perhaps a person should choose their cab company more carefully - their experience will be different.


 ... yep, and I can also choose to take the metro transit to the airport for a cheap adult fare of $3.25 (cash) here in TO if I'm not in a rush. If I'm in a rush, I'll call the aeroport limo instead for about $70 or so which is all worth it ... right to your door on time plus luggage handling along with free snacks, water and morning papers. And if vacation time isn't the time to splurge, then when will it be? YOu only live once.



> Hmmm, again eh. Dissing 'old people' seems to be habitual. If your parents had lived to be old they would be embarrassed.


 ...+1. And what's with m3s on "old" people??? Did he find the fountain of youth or is he planning to live forever in the virtual world?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I thought it was fair game to judge people's age group around here based on the avocado-toast-princess-generation comments

I consider myself in the eye of the storm between the crusty-old-get-off-my-lawn and the attention-deficit-industry-killing-disruptor

I agree my comments are hyperbole that is the point


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Sorry but your judgement is waaaay off ... I'm no princess, didn't even own a Barbie doll nor an avocado toast(er). I played with fire-trucks instead but then don't let me stop you from whatever I-gotta-use-it or I gotta-own-it "disrupting" app or gadget ... it is the hyped-up gems of your generation.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Sounds like the beginning elements of a paranoid conspiracy theory to me. Could be taken from the pages of a US anti-government militia group.
> 
> I agree that consumers often don't care about much except saving a buck and that can be a problem. And I agree that over-regulation is not good, but there does need to be regs, zoning, insurance, etc.
> 
> The wild west disappeared for good reason.


Something something militia - How original...

That's all I'm saying, _over_ regulation can obviously happen, and airbnb and uber are *clear* responses to and proof that over regulation has happened. The popular notion that these businesses are primarily the result of applying new technology (cell phone apps, online payment systems etc.) to business is misleading. The explosion in these industries isn't because people have the internet, it's because it was insanely easy for some smart tech guys to recognize that there was a huge demand for a service that the government was stifling with over regulation.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Peterk, you have identified the drivers - technology and pent up demand for cheap services. I agree that gov't regs and owners/cos added to the cost of existing services and helped create the opportunity for disruptive business models, but I don't see over-regulation or gov't as the primary cause.

Other business models can develop within existing regs and be successful (e.g. Dollarama). But airbnb and uber chose to ignore existing laws/regs.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> I'm no princess, didn't even own a Barbie doll nor an avocado toast(er).


Clearly, whoosh



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Other business models can develop within existing regs and be successful (e.g. Dollarama). But airbnb and uber chose to ignore existing laws/regs.


The apps had to become successful first. Airbnb and uber are global startups and now need to work out regulations with each individual city around the world which they are doing. How would they go about doing that before even starting and before the regs even apply to them.

Taxi licence cost hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars which is just a way to control the market. The taxi rates are regulated so that taxis don't cheat the customer and yet uber has proven this false


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> The apps had to become successful first. Airbnb and uber are global startups and now need to work out regulations with each individual city around the world which they are doing. *How would they go about doing that before even starting and before the regs even apply to them.*


 ... they clearly know there're no existing regulations on this type of business model and drivers who participate in this program are taking full advantage of this. Here's a recent local news article proving just that: 

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/08/24/family-of-toronto-man-killed-in-gardiner-crash-calls-for-stricter-rules-for-uber-drivers.html



> ... Such tragedies are inevitable since the city abdicated its role in the safety regulation of the vehicle-for-hire industry, say critics of Toronto’s 2016 reforms, which scrapped 17-day mandatory driver training, loosened vehicle standards, and let the newly created Private Transportation Companies (PTC), such as Uber, essentially regulate themselves.
> 
> “*There are too many instances of app-dispatched drivers causing severe problems, in some tragic cases passenger deaths, caused by untrained, unprofessional drivers*,” reads a July editorial in Taxinews. ...


and this 



> ... Still, he feels Uber’s “star rating” system — where passengers rate the driver — is inadequate. “*It’s like Uber’s customers are doing their safety test for them*.” ...


 ... so the passengers become the crash-dummies. >>> shudder <<<




> Uber drivers must pass background screening and will be *denied a PTC licence if they have accumulated nine or more demerit points* — at the time of the application or renewal — or if they have been convicted of serious Highway Traffic Act offences, such as racing or stunt driving, or failing to remain at the scene of an accident, in the preceding five years.
> 
> Cameron’s family believes the loosened rules fall short of protecting the travelling public. ...


 ... wow, need as much as 9 demerit points to be denied a PTC licence? 3 demerit points is indication of a problematic driver but need triple that? Talk about loosey goosey rules.




> Taxi licence cost hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars which is just a way to control the market. The taxi rates are regulated so that taxis don't cheat the customer and yet uber has proven this false


 ... really? and the following article shows otherwise. Has it improved since? 

*
HERE’S THE PROOF: UBER DRIVERS ARE RIPPING OFF ITS CUSTOMERS*

http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/blog/heres-the-proof-uber-drivers-are-ripping-off-its-customers





m3s said:


> Clearly, whoosh


... whatever.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

It must be true if it was in the anti-business, pro-tax Red Star ....  Especially with quotes from unbiased sources like "Taxi news" lol

For some reason the future frightens you ? That's okay. Continue taking over priced cabs that are falling apart and staying at the Holiday Inn.
The rest of us will enjoy progress.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Koogie said:


> It must be true if it was in the anti-business,* pro-tax Red Star* ....


 ... ah, there's the rub. I sure don't want to land on some governmental forced collection agency's list, eventually.



> Especially with quotes from unbiased sources like "Taxi news" lol


 ... so where do you think quotes should be coming from? All is rosy-la-la-land?



> For some reason the future frightens you ? That's okay. Continue taking over priced cabs that are falling apart and staying at the Holiday Inn.
> The rest of us will enjoy progress.


 ... such future is scary. I don't know about you but I sure don't want to be a crash-dummy to aid in such "progress". As for any "falling-apart" taxi-cabs, I'll leave it to the taxi-industry to determine if they're worth putting on the road, to capture a fare. And this goes along with the hotel industry.

How about this? https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/09/14/uber-trials-driverless-cars-in-pittsburgh.html ... future of progress ... no humans are required to apply! LOL!

Please enlighten me ... is there a Passenger Bill of Rights with Uber?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

peterk said:


> Something something militia - How original...
> 
> That's all I'm saying, _over_ regulation can obviously happen, and airbnb and uber are *clear* responses to and proof that over regulation has happened. The popular notion that these businesses are primarily the result of applying new technology (cell phone apps, online payment systems etc.) to business is misleading. The explosion in these industries isn't because people have the internet, it's because it was insanely easy for some smart tech guys to recognize that there was a huge demand for a service that the government was stifling with over regulation.



This is not about 'over' regulation, it is simply about regulation being necessary for the COMMON good. What you are saying is, 'screw the common good, all that matters is what is good for ME. If I want to rent an apartment in Paris, I don't care if someone was turfed out by their landlord because they could make more renting it short term to me.'

Don't try to suggest this is simply a disagreement between you and government regulation. It is a disagreement between you and those that are negatively impacted by Airbnb. You don't get to avoid that if you rent from Airbnb, you are contributing to that negative impact on other people. That dog won't hunt.

The original idea of renting an airbed in your home is long gone and Airbnb is no longer a good idea by 2 guys in San Francisco to make a few extra dollars. It is now a multi-billion dollar company driven by only one thing, profit. That has nothing to do with a 'sharing economy' any more. When someone is listing a dozen or more properties for rent 365 days per year, they are in the hotel business, not the 'home sharing' business but Airbnb continues to try and say it's all about some poor widow on a pension making a few extra dollars renting out a spare room' etc. 

The only people who are buying that story or those who WANT to buy that story because it suits them personally. If you are using Airbnb, you are contributing to the negative impact it is having on other people. You cannot squirm out of that simple fact.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I recently rented an airbnb apartment in Quebec for a week. It was a legal basement apartment in a single father's house that is a student apartment during the school year. No hotels were available due to a major international event and I was in the process of moving. I would have been sleeping under a bridge otherwise and he would have had an empty apartment for the summer otherwise. It was actually better than a hotel because I had a full apartment with rooms and fully stocked kitchen, quiet location with secure parking and shorter commute etc. I don't see any legal or moral issues or people being disadvantaged here at all. 

I rented an airbnb house for a group a few blocks from Juno Beach during the D-Day anniversary. We were invited guests with designated seating but the nearest available hotels were far away due to the security zonage etc. It was a family's vacation house managed by their daughter. Again I don't see any legal or moral issues or people being disadvantaged here. Rather we got to spend more time doing what we were there to do, save costs to the public and had a much more enjoyable time staying together so close and having home made breakfast and a short walk to the beach and Canadian ceremonies.

I rented a airbnb apartment in Paris for a week. This one was a bit different as the airbnb contact was from another country and did seem to have a few listings in a few countries. The apartment was clearly being lived in and a 3rd party gave us the keys. It was clean and fully equipped and a fraction of the price of hotel across the street. This let us buy fresh food from the markets and prepare it in the kitchen sometimes instead of eating out every meal all week. Airbnb was advertised all over Paris at the time. Paris hotels are notoriously expensive and I don't see them going out of business because of airbnb and landlords can't kick people out temporarily so they must be in agreement

Cities like Paris and Vancouver can't blame airbnb for their RE issues or gentrification etc. The root cause is something else like over tourism or immigration or population or RE speculation not airbnb. Airbnb is a symptom of a larger problem in specific regions and cities that people like to blame because it's different and they don't understand it. People are allowed to have guests and people are allowed to sublet etc. In the vast majority of places you don't see 24/7 airbnb operations. Anywhere there is mass tourism there is an impact on the locals regardless of airbnb apps. Venice Italy became 100% tourist and kicked the locals out long before apps even existed.

Regulations and policies need to be adapted with changes over time. That is why people are paid to make and adjust policies. It's like blaming facebook for donald trump when there are so many other factors going on in the grand scheme of things. Just look at the Mark Zuckerberg facebook testimony to congress who clearly have no understanding of modern technology. Nowadays things are changing so fast that gray haired policy makers have lost touch with reality and become ineffective. Just see Elon Musk comments on how policy makers are too slow to adapt to the rate of progress with things like AI today.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

More.
"grey haired policy makers have lost touch with reality".
You really do despise older people don't you.
If you had parents they'd be embarrassed with their son's predjudice.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ +2. m2s will have to colour his hair perpetually in order not to lose touch with reality. LOL.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

So millennial generalizations are ok but not old people? My parents admit they don't understand airbnb but not sure what they have to do with an internet discussion










I plan to retire long before I have delusions I can make policy about things decades beyond my time. Do you think this guy has a solid grasp of modern technology?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> More.
> "grey haired policy makers have lost touch with reality".
> 
> You really do despise older people don't you.
> If you had parents they'd be embarrassed with their son's predjudice.




i beg your pardon?

the poster being referred to is politely articulating a legitimate point of view re emerging businesses. Certainly some of these startups do present problems as they try to situate themselves within orderly, regulated western society. Certainly these problems need to be set forth & then handled by constructive commentaries & possibly by corrective actions.

but to carry on to the point of the personal insults expressed above does not seem reasonable to me


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

hahahahahaha... funniest thing I have ever read on this site. The pot lecturing a kettle...


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

m3s said:


> I recently rented an airbnb apartment in Quebec for a week. It was a legal basement apartment in a single father's house that is a student apartment during the school year. No hotels were available due to a major international event and I was in the process of moving. I would have been sleeping under a bridge otherwise and he would have had an empty apartment for the summer otherwise. It was actually better than a hotel because I had a full apartment with rooms and fully stocked kitchen, quiet location with secure parking and shorter commute etc. I don't see any legal or moral issues or people being disadvantaged here at all.
> 
> I rented an airbnb house for a group a few blocks from Juno Beach during the D-Day anniversary. We were invited guests with designated seating but the nearest available hotels were far away due to the security zonage etc. It was a family's vacation house managed by their daughter. Again I don't see any legal or moral issues or people being disadvantaged here. Rather we got to spend more time doing what we were there to do, save costs to the public and had a much more enjoyable time staying together so close and having home made breakfast and a short walk to the beach and Canadian ceremonies.
> 
> ...


I am never surprised when people think they can justify their own actions by shifting any possible blame to other people.

This is real simple m3s. Airbnb is unethical in their business practices. That is not even debatable any more. It has been clearly shown numerous times. So that only leaves the question of whether your continuing to do business with them is unethical on your part or not.

Let's take your first example only. You rent a legal rental in Quebec. I will take you at your word in that regard. Now did you rent it P2P (peer to peer) or did you rent it through an unethical third party? Answer, you rented it through an unethical third party. See the point? That the actual property was a legal rental is irrelevant UNLESS you rented it directly from the owner without using any third party at all. You can't point to the property being legal and just ignore you went through an unethical third party.

So you contributed by your actions to the profit of an unethical company. What does that make you IF you know that third party is unethical? 

Someone who does not know a company operates unethically, has an excuse right up until they become aware the company is unethical. So under that scenario I can accept your actions as not intended to harm others or contribute to an unethical company. But now you have been informed and any future business you do with Airbnb will be done in the full knowledge that they operate under unethical business practices. What then will it make you if you continue to do business with them?

I agree regulations and policies need to be adapted with changes over time. But in the meantime, contributing to the profits of an unethical company makes you no better than they are. The changes are happening but every change that is occurring is doing so at the expense of the profit of Airbnb! What do you think their reaction is to that? They are fighting and ignoring every change that is being made, for as long as they can and in every way they can.

Municipalities around the world are restricting short term rentals to 120 days per year. They are restricting them to a 'primary' residence only. They are giving condominium Boards the power to impose large fines on unit owners who contravene a rule of renting for a period of less than 30 days. All kinds of changes are being made m3s and all of them are going against the Airbnb business model because the municipalities are attempting to do what is right for their people overall, not what makes the most profit for an individual at the expense of others.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Ethics are moral principles and concepts that guide an individual or cultural group in making decisions. They are by definition not black and white as your purport. They vary as widely as the broad perceptions of each individual. Personally I strongly value individual perceptions and refrain from telling people they are wrong on the basis of my personal ethical beliefs.

By your argument we should not do business with any company that has demonstrably operated unethically by any individual, religious, or cultural belief. That means no items from any company that takes advantage of low wages in developing countries, no items from companies that support guns or don't follow kosher or vegan beliefs etc etc etc. Basically by your reasoning we should be tarred in public for doing business with anyone but jesus christ himself

I personalty chose items labeled with fair trade, responsible treatment of animals and environment sustainability but I don't go around the internet telling everyone else they are going to a hypothetical hell because they declare something unethical like some kind of internet door to door jehovah's witness. It's fine to preach your beliefs but you can't declare everyone else is wrong because of it.

The ethics of capitalism did bother me for a long time as an investor but it will take a long time for a better system to emerge and probably not until a global economic disaster at some point. Until then I could argue that pretty much every company maximizes profit at the expense of someone's ethical beliefs. Again that is why we designate wise elders as policy makers.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

m3s said:


> Ethics are moral principles and concepts that guide an individual or cultural group in making decisions. They are by definition not black and white as your purport. They vary as widely as the broad perceptions of each individual. Personally I strongly value individual perceptions and refrain from telling people they are wrong on the basis of my personal ethical beliefs.
> 
> By your argument we should not do business with any company that has demonstrably operated unethically by any individual, religious, or cultural belief. That means no items from any company that takes advantage of low wages in developing countries, no items from companies that support guns or don't follow kosher or vegan beliefs etc etc etc. Basically by your reasoning we should be tarred in public for doing business with anyone but jesus christ himself
> 
> ...


Ethics is even simpler than that m3s. You need only 2 words to explain ethics and morality. Right and wrong. As to what determines if a behaviour is right or wrong, that is determined by the society in which we live, as a whole. It is not difficult to determine if a company is unethical in it's behaviour and it is not difficult to determine if an individual is behaving in a moral way or not. I know right from wrong and have no difficulty looking at the FACTS and reaching a conclusion as to the ethical or non-ethical behaviour of Airbnb. 

Do not try to tell me that I am not able to determine what is right or wrong. If you want to try and argue that Airbnb's behaviour is not wrong, go ahead and try. Maybe start with defending how not removing illegal listings is not wrong. Here is an example of just that, try and defend Airbnb's position as morally responsible behaviour.
https://www.airbnbhell.com/someone-illegally-listed-house-airbnb-wont-remove/

They rely on their LEGAL obligations and ignore their moral obligations.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> ... The ethics of capitalism did bother me for a long time...


Clearly your concern has disappeared if uber and airbnb are held up as ethical business models.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Maybe start with defending how not removing illegal listings is not wrong. Here is an example of just that, try and defend Airbnb's position as morally responsible behaviour.
> https://www.airbnbhell.com/someone-illegally-listed-house-airbnb-wont-remove/


That is a link to a random blog from 2016. Internet blogs are not facts. They aren't even 2nd hand information without the original source. But even so it is technically the tenant who has breached a contract with the landlord. Airbnb does not verify that every listing is legal just like kijiji does not verify people are not using them to sell stolen goods (which they are) It is the thief who committed the crime not the listing site.



> You need only 2 words to explain ethics and morality. Right and wrong. As to what determines if a behaviour is right or wrong, that is determined by the society in which we live, as a whole.


That's not true at all. Nothing is more debatable in life than right and wrong. If you think so you have lived a very sheltered life. The actual definition of ethics is that they are not easily defined right or wrong, rather they are undefined. Ethics ≠ law. Law can can and does change all the time. Ethics are not written law and vary as widely as the population of earth. PETA is not law for example, it is the ethical belief of a group.



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Clearly your concern has disappeared if uber and airbnb are held up as ethical business models.


If airbnb gets you fired up I'm afraid you need to look at the bigger picture. Monsanto for example is legal but operating in a way that has detrimental affect to the earth long after we are gone. Airbnb doesn't hurt any more than any other company. Capitalism is to maximize exploitation of others within the confines of law, not ethics. Capitalism prioritizes profit over social good, natural resources and the environment. It is unethical by definition, but legal.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> ... Capitalism is to maximize exploitation of others...


Really? Is that what you believe? 
How does someone who works in Canada's economy or even sheltered in the public sector (supported by Canada's economy) come to such an absurd conclusion?


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I've been meaning to read this- you may be interested as well:

https://www.amazon.ca/Hendrix-Setti...0&sr=8-6&keywords=setting+the+record+straight


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Really? Is that what you believe?
> How does someone who works in Canada's economy or even sheltered in the public sector (supported by Canada's economy) come to such an absurd conclusion?


I'm saying airbnb is no more "unethical" than a typical capitalist company maximizing profit within the confines of law. They provide the means for people to list accommodations

If you want to discuss Canadian business ethics I would look at Barrick Gold (supported by Canada's government) long before airbnb. Airbnb isn't paying people to kill and rape


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Really? Is that what you believe?
> How does someone who works in Canada's economy or *even sheltered in the public sector (supported by Canada's economy) come to such an absurd conclusion*?


 ... the irony.



> *Originally Posted by m3s *
> ... I'm saying airbnb is no more "unethical" than a typical capitalist company maximizing profit *within the confines of law. *


 .. while developing an app isn't unlawful... however, making it available and enabling people to use it to by pass/skirt the laws (numerous) is not operating in the confines of law. Unless the city (a couple in the world?) allows Airbnb to operate "lawfully" (aka with a list of regulations), its presence remains unlawful simply.

Here's a definition of Airbnb from Investopedia's:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/083115/top-cities-where-airbnb-legal-or-illegal.asp


Hmmm... since Airbnb operates as "e-commerce", does it pay taxes even?


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Ethics is even simpler than that m3s. You need only 2 words to explain ethics and morality. Right and wrong. As to what determines if a behaviour is right or wrong, that is determined by the society in which we live, as a whole. It is not difficult to determine if a company is unethical in it's behaviour and it is not difficult to determine if an individual is behaving in a moral way or not. I know right from wrong and have no difficulty looking at the FACTS and reaching a conclusion as to the ethical or non-ethical behaviour of Airbnb.


How dramatic.

Those equating the (municipal) illegality of (some) AirBnb (listings) to being unethical are just trying to lean on the power of the law to defend their indefensible position. The ethical issue isn't really about ethics at all, just standard NIMBYism. The main issue being that homeowners of the premium property locations in the most desirable cities are feeling the greatest pressure from AirBnb type activity, and are peeved that they now have to bear some mild changes and share "their" premium neighborhoods with tourists.

What makes you think as a homeowner that the government should dictate on your behalf that tourists must be confined to hotels out at the airport, downtown business cores, or outskirts industrial parks?

You're just upset that, for a change, the government isn't fully aligned with your own interests of enforcing "neighbourhood friendly" laws that stifle, for your pleasure, all kinds of beneficial-to-society business, construction and economic activity that could be occurring.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I think y'all are being silly. I have no problems with airbnb. Its legal in the majority of municipalities people list in. 
I don't say Nike is unethical for selling shoes to people who *gasp* jaywalk.
Or Ford is unethical for selling vehicles that they know can go faster than any speed limit in N America (and frequently do).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

my much-liked neighbour appears to be running a part-time airBnb, although bnBs & airBnbs are strictly outlawed by our municipality. She's been flouting the law for years.

hers is not a commercial operation, ie she does not own a chain of rental properties, all of which she operates as a multi-site pseudo hotel. All she rents out is her small historic cottage on my street, which she bought in 1993 as her own personal residence.

my neighbour is a well-known interior decorator with an international clientele that takes her out of town frequently, typically for one-week periods. She's been engaged to design homes as far away as china. Needless to say, her dwelling is an exquisite, magazine-cover little jewel. Any visitor to this city who is able to rent it is fortunate.

most of my neighbour's paying guests are attractive, middle-aged professional women. I met the current one yesterday afternoon - my neighbour herself left last friday for a week in Paris. The guest i met yesterday is so quiet that we had actually thought the house was empty.

because my neighbour is out-of-town so much, i am happy to see her house occupied by what appear to be responsible adults. This is a much safer arrangement than leaving her house conspicuously empty half the time. It also means that a resident is on hand to notice if a water pipe should burst or a gas line should leak.

my neighbour has worked extremely hard all her life, usually departing for construction sites around 7:30 am when she's in residence and typically working 10-hour days. She's been a single parent most of her adult life. As self-employed she probably doesn't have a pension. She's never had the interest or the inclination to become an investor. If she can add to her budget by sharing her home with carefully-chosen guests via airBnb, then i'm absolutely delighted for her.

me i will affectionately protect my lovely neighbour. Officially i don't know anything. Officially nobody read anything here. Officially i've never even heard of an airBnb located anywhere near this neighbourhood.


.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> .. while developing an app isn't unlawful... however, making it available and enabling people to use it to by pass/skirt the laws (numerous) is not operating in the confines of law. Unless the city (a couple in the world?) allows Airbnb to operate "lawfully" (aka with a list of regulations), its presence remains unlawful simply.
> 
> Here's a definition of Airbnb from Investopedia's:
> 
> https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/083115/top-cities-where-airbnb-legal-or-illegal.asp


That's a good link. It summarizes illegal rentals and hosts that have been fined for illegal rentals and recommends airbnb users do their due diligence. I don't see where it says airbnb is unethical or illegal. People sell illegal things online. You should do your due diligence before taking part in illegal activity online I totally agree. I do not agree that all e-commerce is unethical because some people offer illegal services online



Beaver101 said:


> Hmmm... since Airbnb operates as "e-commerce", does it pay taxes even?


The e-commerce tax or the "Netflix tax" has been proposed by many a gray haired politician for years. It is met with knee jerk speculation to be political suicide by the way as it could awaken the politically indifferent young voters. They are vehemently opposed to anything involving internet control or anti net neutrality

Personally I think internet services like airbnb/uber should pay a certain internet tax but not full tax the same as traditional non e-commerce services. The beauty of the internet is that it is open and efficient but it does need some kind of oversight and maybe a small internet tax could fund that


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Just rented a lovely condo in beautiful Montana for this autumn. Immoral, sneaky AirBnb-ers we are.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

I am disgusted by you ! I will remain disgusted next month when we are at our Airbnb cottage on top of a Georgian Bay cliff, listening to the waves crash on the rocks below us and drinking ice cold, crisp local apple cider and marveling at the leaf colours.

Don't you understand that Airbnb hurts Mother Gaia !! Or the polar bears ? Or.. well, some bullshit anyway.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

peterk said:


> Just rented a lovely condo in beautiful Montana for this autumn. Immoral, sneaky AirBnb-ers we are.


Yes you are.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Koogie said:


> I am disgusted by you ! I will remain disgusted next month when we are at our Airbnb cottage on top of a Georgian Bay cliff, listening to the waves crash on the rocks below us and drinking ice cold, crisp local apple cider and marveling at the leaf colours.
> 
> Don't you understand that Airbnb hurts Mother Gaia !! Or the polar bears ? Or.. well, some bullshit anyway.


A cottage on Georgian Bay is not the same as an apartment in a building with full time residents who work in the area. When a single mother with 2 children is evicted so that it can be rented out by the night, that is when people are being hurt. You may want to give a smart *** answer and think you are justified in doing so but in reality a smart *** answer is just a smart *** answer, it is not a reasoned argument or rebuttal of a valid issue.

Try to understand that if individuals contribute to a company that is encouraging unethical practices, then the individual owns a share of the responsibility for what their actions results in. If I asked you should a single mother be evicted so that you can rent by the night, you might find it more difficult to give a smart *** answer. But then again, perhaps you would not. For some people, if it saves them a buck, nothing else matters.

It doesn't matter if you rent a cottage on Georgian Bay, you are still contributing to this: https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-magnet-is-kicking-out-local-residents


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Sounds like tourism gentrification which isn't limited to airbnb at all

An extreme case being Venice which is 100% tourism now. I rarely go to such places and if I do I don't stay long

I prefer places with as little tourism as possible. Steady tourism definitely changes a place

Need some tourist traps though like you need highways to keep the masses off the scenic roads


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> A cottage on Georgian Bay is not the same as an apartment in a building with full time residents who work in the area. When a single mother with 2 children is evicted so that it can be rented out by the night, that is when people are being hurt. You may want to give a smart *** answer and think you are justified in doing so but in reality a smart *** answer is just a smart *** answer, it is not a reasoned argument or rebuttal of a valid issue.


Don't worry - I specifically asked whether it was a high single mother neighborhood... Since they are low-brow areas, to be avoided...

Though one has to wonder, if there weren't all the cafes and restaurants popping up around the tourist spots, just where exactly would all these single mothers work?

Glad it's all very simple though. Right or wrong, black or white. For someone who knows how cut and dry it is you sure do a lot of talking.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^^ m3s, Koogie, peterk (3 little kids, lol) ... it's okay that you use Airbnb, Uber, and the likes. 

It's your perogative to use it/them services as it's mines (any anyone's else) not to use it/them services. Just that we all know what issues are involved. Have a nice day.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Longtimeago said:


> You may want to give a smart *** answer and think you are justified in doing so but in reality a smart *** answer is just a smart *** answer, it is not a reasoned argument or rebuttal of a valid issue.


Perhaps you should contemplate the fact that a smart *** answer is all the answer that your moral proselytizing deserves.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/mass-tourism-threatens-croatias-game-of-thrones-town

Did you see this? Poor Croatians, possibly some of them single mothers, are suffering in the crowded streets of Dubrovnik because of Game of Thrones tourists. Hopefully someone holds HBO accountable for this travesty, clearly an immoral act on the part of the corporation.

Also partly to blame, from the article, is Croatia's world cup soccer team success, drawing more tourists to the country. In my opinion they probably should have thrown the game. Clearly they hadn't considered the consequences to the most impoverished members of their communities when selfishly trying to win a prestigious sporting event.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Koogie said:


> Perhaps you should contemplate the fact that a smart *** answer is all the answer that your moral proselytizing deserves.


Well, at least you are admitting to just being a smart ***.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

peterk said:


> https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/mass-tourism-threatens-croatias-game-of-thrones-town
> 
> Did you see this? Poor Croatians, possibly some of them single mothers, are suffering in the crowded streets of Dubrovnik because of Game of Thrones tourists. Hopefully someone holds HBO accountable for this travesty, clearly an immoral act on the part of the corporation.
> 
> Also partly to blame, from the article, is Croatia's world cup soccer team success, drawing more tourists to the country. In my opinion they probably should have thrown the game. Clearly they hadn't considered the consequences to the most impoverished members of their communities when selfishly trying to win a prestigious sporting event.


How stupid do you think readers here are that they would buy that kind of supposed rebuttal?

Neither the producers of Game Of Thrones or the Croatian football team KNOWINGLY did anything that would impact single mothers or anyone else in Dubrovnik. There are always 'unintended consequences' that obviously cannot be foreseen and may have negative impacts in some way. But they are in no way comparable to a company who KNOWINGLY uses practices that have negative impacts. Airbnb KNOW what is happening as a result of their refusal to remove illegal rentals etc.

If you want to compare, compare to something like gun manufacturers who knowingly produce a product that is used to kill people. That then does indeed become a moral dilemna when there is a need (military, police) for their product but there is also consequences they didn't intend and cannot control when their guns get into the hands of criminals. The difference is Airbnb CAN control who lists on their site if they choose to do so. They do not choose to do so because they make MONEY from listings, not from controlling who lists.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Let's be very clear here. Those who want to rent from Airbnb because it saves them MONEY, will attempt any ridiculous argument they can think of to justify their behaviour. The only alternative would be to admit they don't CARE about how their behaviour impacts others as long as they save MONEY.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Let's be very clear here. Those who want to rent from Airbnb because it saves them MONEY, will attempt any ridiculous argument they can think of to justify their behaviour. The only alternative would be to admit they don't CARE about how their behaviour impacts others as long as they save MONEY.


I don't think airbnb has ever been cheaper than a mainstream option. It's always been more expensive for us. Full kitchen rather than kitchenette, laundry vs laundry service, kids toys vs none. Quieter neighbourhood for sleeping. Same size in same location. Or more availability on airbnb when all the hotels are full (see Reykjavik)


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

nobleea said:


> I don't think airbnb has ever been cheaper than a mainstream option. It's always been more expensive for us. Full kitchen rather than kitchenette, laundry vs laundry service, kids toys vs none. Quieter neighbourhood for sleeping. Same size in same location. Or more availability on airbnb when all the hotels are full (see Reykjavik)


That may well be your experience based on what properties you look at as suitable for you to rent nobleea. However, the business model is clear and that the majority of those who use the service do so to save money, is not in question. It doesn't take much research to confirm that. The most common reasons given by those defending the service are that it 'saves them money and allows them to take a vacation they could not otherwise afford', along with, 'we prefer having a full apartment/house where we can cook' and 'we like to 'live in a place like a local rather than in a hotel like a tourist'. The last two are attempts to justify it without admitting it is really all about money. At least the first reason given is honest.

https://www.ryerson.ca/news-events/news/2016/10/why-tourists-choose-airbnb-over-hotels/

Don't forget how they got started. Two guys had the idea of renting out an air mattress (hence the name) in their San Francisco apartment during a major event in the city when hotel rooms were very scarce. They offered to 'share' their space, a real example of the 'sharing economy' and provide breakfast (B&B in name). They started a website and made it available to others who wished to do the same, as a place to list their offerings. Obviously, renting an airbed or spare room in someone's home was cheaper than a hotel room. So the driving force from day 1 was CHEAP. That is where the appeal was. I mean who really wants to sleep on an air mattress in someone else's living room if they have a choice?

The idea caught on big time and the site took off with astronomical growth. Given the amount of MONEY that was involved, it did not take the sharks long to arrive. If I can rent my spare room for $X a night, why not rent all my rooms and earn more than it costs me for my rent or mortgage? If I can rent out one apartment/house at a profit, why not rent/buy multiple apartments/houses and rent them all out for multiple profits? Did you know for example that there is one individual who has over 200 properties listed in Lisbon? That is when the original relatively good idea went out the window and it became a big company focused on profit above all else. Do you really believe the marketing that tries to tell you that it is all about someone just renting out some extra space and making some extra cash to supplement their pension etc.? Do you see them doing tv ads that say here is a rental listed by an individual who lists 200+ properties with us and is making tons of money by evicting tenants from buildings to rent out by the night to tourists.

You mention Reykjavik. Well take a look at Reykjavik and you will find that 44% of ALL rental properties in the city are Airbnb listed! Locals are in some cases living in tents in the park because they cannot find a place to rent. A shortage of hotel rooms relative to the demand should not mean that locals are relegated to living in a tent so a tourist can visit should it? 
https://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C...31k1j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i20i263k1.172.wjLFBUyE0No

Who is to blame for a shortage of housing may be debatable but the fact is there is not just one to blame. Airbnb is without a doubt adding to the problem and it isn't because they want to help a tourist find a place to stay. It is because profit comes first and that people are literally being forced to live in tents is 'not our problem'. 

So let me ask you in all honesty nobleea. If I as a tourist want to visit Reykjavik and cannot find a hotel room to rent, should I turn to Airbnb and rent through them knowing that 44% of all rentals are now off the long term rental market because they are listed on Airbnb and no longer available to locals for living in and that as a consequence, some locals are forced to live in a tent in a park? If I rent that apartment, am I not contributing to the housing problem in Reykjavik and saying that what I want to do as a tourist means that I should ignore what is happening to the people of Reykjavik who live there?

Should I do that or should I say to myself, 'OK, nothing is available in Reykjavik for those dates. I will have to change my dates, try again another time or whatever but I cannot go and put someone out on the street, living in a tent to satisfy my desire to be a tourist there.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

If you read the articles, it's clear that airbnb is just a symptom and not the cause of these issues (in reference to Iceland). It's the promotion of the island as a tourist spot. They didn't have a minister of Tourism until just last year.

We went in summer 2015 and didn't notice any crowds at all (except blue lagoon, but we didn't go in).

It's a supply and demand thing. Regulating (or not) airbnb and vrbo and the like is just one portion of it. Adding more hotels, planning out tourism infrastructure, adding (or increasing) tourist type taxes, planning flight connections and marketing programs appropriately. Iceland, and earlier NZ, had the curse of being featured in very popular media which increased their tourism draw (Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings). Somewhat out of their hands, though I guess the government could've planned filming permits with a bit more foresight.

Simply saying "I'll change my travel dates" isn't going to solve the problem at all. Airbnb isn't knocking on doors in Reyk, selling the virtues and benefits of the company to those not currently with them. It's greed at every level. The federal government for wanting an easy source of external money (promoting tourism), the landlord seeing how they can make more money on a nightly basis rather than monthly, and airbnb for looking the other way at the issues this causes. You could add the tourist for trying to find the lowest price on accommodations. To say Airbnb is the only devil in that group is disingenuous. Its easy to point the finger at this nebulous company rather than biting the hand that feeds (tourism) or if not feeds, perhaps 'fattens' is a better term.
If Reyk (or whatever other locality) decides to ban airbnb, or tax them heavily, or limit them, airbnb will follow the rules. There are no rules in many locations.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Didn't Iceland just start a discount airline WOW air?

Didn't Iceland have a complete economic collapse 10 years ago?

It's all airbnbs fault?


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Careful. He'll either call you names or throw a wall of text at you. Either way, you're a moral degenerate by going on any vacation at all.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

nobleea said:


> If you read the articles, it's clear that airbnb is just a symptom and not the cause of these issues (in reference to Iceland). It's the promotion of the island as a tourist spot. They didn't have a minister of Tourism until just last year.
> 
> We went in summer 2015 and didn't notice any crowds at all (except blue lagoon, but we didn't go in).
> 
> ...


As I wrote nobleea, there is not just one to blame. But regardless of how many are to blame, the tourist must share some of that blame. So is there any way it is possible to say that the tourist should ignore the issues and still rent through Airbnb? It is one thing for someone to do something without knowing the consequences, it is an entirely different thing for someone to do something after having been made aware of the consequences as those reading this thread have now been made aware.

As you can see from the comments of m3s and Koogie here, there are people quite willing to ignore the issue and obviously unable to mount any kind of rational rebuttal, so they resort to immature comments as if that somehow makes it all OK. Do you think they actually believe the nonsense they write nobleea? I'm beginning to think they actually believe the nonsense they tell themselves.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

It is up to the local jurisdictions/countries to decide that enough is enough and regulate it as they see fit, outlaw it, embrace it, whatever (and by that, I mean the voting populace). Until they do that, it's within the rules of the law, which is black and white.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

More often, local bylaws/regs, condo bylaws, insurance, etc. are silent on short term rentals such as airbnb. STR's just did not exist until recently. Some rental owners will comply with bylaw and insurance changes as they catch up. Others choose to carry on illegally. Airbnb doesn't care, they just collect their fees from the mullets. And people renting don't know or care about compliance, they just want to save a buck.

I'm reminded of all the people on the Quebec side of the recent tornadoes. Half didn't have insurance even though they are required to. They wanted to save a buck. It all comes home to roost.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Some rental owners will comply with bylaw and insurance changes as they catch up. Others choose to carry on illegally.


Should you report them and have the relevant authorities enforce the law or complain about it on the internet some more?



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Airbnb doesn't care, they just collect their fees from the mullets.


Even if they are humans that do care, it's not their job to enforce laws in various jurisdictions around the globe. Yes they are driven by profit like any other capitalist venture



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> And people renting don't know or care about compliance, they just want to save a buck.


Why would they? It's not their job to know the various regulations around the world. Do you go on vacation with a mall cop suit and start enforcing your internet beliefs around the world? Airbnbs range in price just as much as hotels if not more. People use airbnb for better value and better experience.



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I'm reminded of all the people on the Quebec side of the recent tornadoes. Half didn't have insurance even though they are required to. They wanted to save a buck. It all comes home to roost.


I'm reminded of all the senior citizens who react negatively to innovation. Yes this is irrelevant and unfounded. That's the point.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

And I'm reminded of the space cadets on the internet.
Have a good trip.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> How stupid do you think readers here are that they would buy that kind of supposed rebuttal?
> 
> Neither the producers of Game Of Thrones or the Croatian football team KNOWINGLY did anything that would impact single mothers or anyone else in Dubrovnik. There are always 'unintended consequences' that obviously cannot be foreseen and may have negative impacts in some way. But they are in no way comparable to a company who KNOWINGLY uses practices that have negative impacts. Airbnb KNOW what is happening as a result of their refusal to remove illegal rentals etc.
> 
> If you want to compare, compare to something like gun manufacturers who knowingly produce a product that is used to kill people. That then does indeed become a moral dilemna when there is a need (military, police) for their product but there is also consequences they didn't intend and cannot control when their guns get into the hands of criminals. The difference is Airbnb CAN control who lists on their site if they choose to do so. They do not choose to do so because they make MONEY from listings, not from controlling who lists.


Really, a huge movie set barging into a small town to take advantage of historic sites owned by the local people doesn't KNOW that they are having a disruptive impact on that location??

Obviously you missed the point though..

How does airbnb KNOW that by allowing partially illegal rentals it is having a negative impact on single mothers' rental prospects? Further, how do YOU know, beyond wild speculation that suits your argument? There must certainly be a moderate effect of consuming housing supply by airbnb customers that pushing rental prices up. There must also certainly be a moderate positive effect on employment in the single mother type industry to supply services to airbnb visitors, there must also be increased construction of housing units, and their resultant availability to single mothers, as a result of increased demand and price.

So as always, it's complicated, unlike your point blank assertion that any vacation residency outside of the specific construction hotel building is "putting someone out on the street, living in a tent".

Obviously the root cause of this massive increase in vacationers in the past decade or two, and the subsequent impact on local neighborhoods, is because we're now a society of nihilists with no purpose or meaning in our lives and choose to spend money on exotic pointless adventures instead of on raising families and building communities. But sure, it's Airbnbs fault. Done and done.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> any of you internet whizzes in here know how I can get on to airbnb.COM not airbnb.ca ?
> or, how i can get prices in US not Cdn $ , for US locations?
> (I haven't signed up with airbnb)





jerryhung said:


> Don't you just change the language/currency at bottom? Then you can see the native LOCAL currency
> 
> Note that paying by Canadian CC may change the currency at check-out page (e.g. AMEX used to be only to pay in USD $, whether it's Canada or Europe airbnb. Now I think it's gone??)
> 
> Obviously, PM someone to refer you to you both win-win





Koogie said:


> Agree with the above. That is how we get billed in USD for stays in the US. Have it billed to my Amazon Visa as well, for the better exchange vig.
> 
> Also, to be clear, if you know someone already on Airbnb, get them to refer you before you sign up. They get a little money for the referral and so do you.


Back on topic - I've done a bit of reading on this now that I've been severely gouged on my USA trip, and it appears that no matter what currency you select in your profile, the only thing that will save you the 3% fee is to have a USD (or other currency) denominated credit card that matches the hosts. Simply paying in USD and having your credit card convert will not spare you the fee.

Further, it appears that that airbnb is a country mile off of spot rate, fraudulently so, IMO.

I wouldn't have even known, except my host also emailed me an invoice, in USD. i.e. the money he's actually getting. The quoted cleaning fee is $100 USD - Airbnb claimed a whopping $147 CAD! Doing the math on the rest of the bill, the rate held. AirBnb charged me $1.47 CAD>USD exchange on a day when the spot rate was $1.29. That is an egregious 14% difference!

Even if I'm somehow getting charged a 3% currency conversion twice, which I shouldn't be, that's a 8% discrepancy from spot rate!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

LOL, but you use Airbnb peterk and see nothing wrong with doing so. Now you want to complain about the company you say is just like any other business, out to make a profit, when they make a profit from you? Hilarious.

Can you think of a hotel chain in the USA where you would end up being charged $1.47 vs. $1.29 on your credit card? 

Funny how you are all in favour of Airbnb, right up until you find they don't care about your pocket, just their own.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

peterk said:


> Back on topic - I've done a bit of reading on this now that I've been severely gouged on my USA trip, and it appears that no matter what currency you select in your profile, the only thing that will save you the 3% fee is to have a USD (or other currency) denominated credit card that matches the hosts. Simply paying in USD and having your credit card convert will not spare you the fee.
> 
> Further, it appears that that airbnb is a country mile off of spot rate, fraudulently so, IMO.
> 
> ...


I have found that air bnb do charge weird conversion rates, usually not in the favor of Canadians. I usually ask fo my Costs in both canadian and US$ and then go from there. It could be becaus of them trying to gauge, it could also be the people just don’t know anything Outside of US dollar. 



Longtimeago said:


> Can you think of a hotel chain in the USA where you would end up being charged $1.47 vs. $1.29 on your credit card?
> 
> Funny how you are all in favour of Airbnb, right up until you find they don't care about your pocket, just their own.


Well, I was in South America at a high end hotel (not chain though). I was given a choice in my billing for local currency, US or Canada. They it was almost a 15% differ bc for UD vs local, and then it was something silly for Canadian ,almost A 30% difference. I don’t think it’s the fault of Airbnb. The traveller really needs to know there rates if it’s Airbnb or a hotel.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I have traveled a lot and used many different booking services and currency exchange is always a cash cow because they typical simpleton doesn't do the math

When I was in Europe I had a euro card on my airbnb and now I have a US card on my airbnb. Otherwise I use PayPal to pay airbnb because my PayPal is set to "currency of trade" with a 0 FX card.

I wouldn't be surprised if airbnb gets most of its revenue from FX fees and I'm fine with that because I don't pay them.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> LOL, but you use Airbnb peterk and see nothing wrong with doing so. Now you want to complain about the company you say is just like any other business, out to make a profit, when they make a profit from you? Hilarious.
> 
> Can you think of a hotel chain in the USA where you would end up being charged $1.47 vs. $1.29 on your credit card?
> 
> Funny how you are all in favour of Airbnb, right up until you find they don't care about your pocket, just their own.


Different topic, dummy.



Plugging Along said:


> I have found that air bnb do charge weird conversion rates, usually not in the favor of Canadians. I usually ask fo my Costs in both Canadian and US$ and then go from there.


I've just played with the profile settings, which aren't much, that let you view the cost in CAD or USD (or other). Looking at a few bookings, and toggling between currencies shows the correct spot rate conversion. I've done a bit of reading on the airbnb community forum as well, and I now suspect that even if you are viewing the prices in the same currency as the host's country, with a host currency credit card (but domiciled in Canada/elsewhere) that the quoted Airbnb rate for room rate, cleaning fee, taxes, is NOT actually what the host is charging, but some severely inflated number that is taking you through the wringer on both spot rate and conversion fee.

Again, I only figured this out by chance because the host actually emailed me a separate invoice showing what he was charging in USD, far lower that what Airbnb charged my card, and far lower than what Airbnb claimed were the various item's cost breakdown in the total bill.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

m3s said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if airbnb gets most of its revenue from FX fees and I'm fine with that because I don't pay them.


How are you so sure you don't pay them? It seems the _only_ way to avoid currency gouging on airbnb is to book a property in your own country of residence with a credit card in your own currency, issued from a bank in your own country.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Plugging Along said:


> I have found that air bnb do charge weird conversion rates, usually not in the favor of Canadians. I usually ask fo my Costs in both canadian and US$ and then go from there. It could be becaus of them trying to gauge, it could also be the people just don’t know anything Outside of US dollar.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I was in South America at a high end hotel (not chain though). I was given a choice in my billing for local currency, US or Canada. They it was almost a 15% differ bc for UD vs local, and then it was something silly for Canadian ,almost A 30% difference. I don’t think it’s the fault of Airbnb. The traveller really needs to know there rates if it’s Airbnb or a hotel.


What you are referring to in regards to the S. America hotel billing choices you were given Plugging Along, is Dynamic Currency Conversion. This is becoming more and more common for travellers to run into all over the world. It is also found with all types of merchants, not just hotels.
https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion/

What the traveller needs to know is that they should always pay in the local currency when using their credit/debit cards while travelling. It's a simple rule to follow even if someone doesn't fully understand the mechanics of what DCC really does.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

peterk said:


> How are you so sure you don't pay them? It seems the _only_ way to avoid currency gouging on airbnb is to book a property in your own country of residence with a credit card in your own currency, issued from a bank in your own country.


I've had cards domiciled in 4 countries and I mostly used airbnb in those local currencies so I don't have a lot of data points. I've had similar issues with other booking sites in foreign currency and I've had success with PayPal after setting PayPal to currency of trade while using a 0 FX card

After a quick internet search, airbnb themselves claim you can pay in the currency of your choice so I imagine it is quite possible:



> When you enter your payment information, you can choose to pay with one of the various currencies we support. You can also *change your default currency at any time by going to Profile and then Settings, or by changing currency on one of the pages where the currency selector is available. *Depending on your selected payment method, there may be some currencies that will not be available.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I know in Paypal, you have to change currency in two places. Otherwise they convert at their rate.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> What you are referring to in regards to the S. America hotel billing choices you were given Plugging Along, is Dynamic Currency Conversion. This is becoming more and more common for travellers to run into all over the world. It is also found with all types of merchants, not just hotels.
> https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion/
> 
> What the traveller needs to know is that they should always pay in the local currency when using their credit/debit cards while travelling. It's a simple rule to follow even if someone doesn't fully understand the mechanics of what DCC really does.


Good tip. I didn't what it was called, but I do find that its generally a good practice to know your exchange rates of the countries you are travelling, US dollar and Canadian dollar. I always do a quick mental calculation. Even the locals sometimes don't know what to calculate. I remember on a trip to asia years ago, we got stuck (different story),. Essentially, we had to pay a local to get us out of the airport when our transport didn't arrive. We had the choice to paying official local currency, unofficial currency, US or Canadian. They wanted foreign currency more than their local, so the rate was much better for US or Canadian. They gave us a choice $20 US or $100 Cdn. Our fellow travelers wanted to just do Canadian, as that is what they had. I always have US dollars, so just paid in US for all of us. 

My point is always check the exchange rates as all companies airbnb, hotel, or even locals do what they want. I also say always travel with US dollar too.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

kcowan said:


> I know in Paypal, you have to change currency in two places. Otherwise they convert at their rate.


Yea and whenever they update their site it seems to default back to their rate and the settings seems harder to find every time.. I presume fx exchange is a major cash cow for many services



Plugging Along said:


> My point is always check the exchange rates as all companies airbnb, hotel, or even locals do what they want. I also say always travel with US dollar too.


Yea some USD is a always a must. I've had to pay x USD for processing entry visa at random borders

A travel hack I use for getting out of airports is to ignore all the hawks and taxi lineups and take the escalator up to the departures drop off. Grab a taxi that is dropping someone off and they will love you for not making them wait in the taxi lineups too. Some new airports have blocked this though


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> A travel hack I use for getting out of airports is to ignore all the hawks and taxi lineups and take the escalator up to the departures drop off. Grab a taxi that is dropping someone off and they will love you for not making them wait in the taxi lineups too. Some new airports have blocked this though


Yes! It also means no waiting your turn downstairs. Sometimes you can avoid the prevention police by going to the pickup area and then flagging down a taxi exiting.


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

peterk said:


> Different topic, dummy.


Please don't call other users dummies


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I opened a 2nd paypal account for US domiciled cards/accounts now and just setup the currency settings

Couldn't find it without googling and I'm good with tech and had changed it before. Very very well hidden paypal!

Should have bought those paypal stocks back in the day..


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