# Ontario is Eliminating Emergency Insurance for Overseas Travel



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

OHIP will no longer provide emergency medical insurance for travel to other countries (including the U.S.). It seems to me that this change would most severely affect snowbirds, given that they tend to stay down south for longer stretches and possibly they are more likely to need emergency intervention. One quote provided in the article is 1500.00 for 120 days (that's 3k for a couple). Not bad, but that extra 3k could go a long way for many a retiree.


https://ca.yahoo.com/news/changes-to-ohip-means-no-emergency-health-coverage-aboard-215416267.html


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Topo said:


> OHIP will no longer provide emergency medical insurance for travel to other countries (including the U.S.). It seems to me that this change would most severely affect snowbirds, given that they tend to stay down south for longer stretches and possibly they are more likely to need emergency intervention. One quote provided in the article is 1500.00 for 120 days (that's 3k for a couple). Not bad, but that extra 3k could go a long way for many a retiree.
> 
> 
> https://ca.yahoo.com/news/changes-to-ohip-means-no-emergency-health-coverage-aboard-215416267.html


I posted about that a while ago. OHIP's contribution to a US claim was minimal and this will therefore only affect premiums marginally.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Yes I heard about it. It is the reason why insurance companies wanted to know where you are resident when you got a quote. They wanted to know if they could get some of a bill paid by another party, in this case OHIP, before then having to pay the balance. So now, the insurance company will not be able to do that and of course that will mean SOME increase in the cost of travel insurance to account for that. It may well be minimal as agent99 suggests, only a quote for a period of time after it goes into affect will tell.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> It may well be minimal as agent99 suggests, only a quote for a period of time after it goes into affect will tell.


We have bought travel medical coverage for some time now. Always close to same # days (3 months+travel days) It goes up every year, but that is because we are getting older  Last year it cost me $1013. This year not bought yet, but quotation was about $1100. This with RBC, no deductible 80yr old!

By the way, the new coverage comes into effect Jan 1st. According to CBC, OHIP coverage was only good for about 5% of costs in USA. That is why this is more or less a non-event. But some are making a big thing of it. 

More here: https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/on/...ncel-health-coverage-overseas-in-january-2020


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

agent99 said:


> We have bought travel medical coverage for some time now. Always close to same # days (3 months+travel days) It goes up every year, but that is because we are getting older  Last year it cost me $1013. This year not bought yet, but quotation was about $1100. This with RBC, no deductible 80yr old!
> 
> By the way, the new coverage comes into effect Jan 1st. According to CBC, OHIP coverage was only good for about 5% of costs in USA. That is why this is more or less a non-event. But some are making a big thing of it.
> 
> More here: https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/on/...ncel-health-coverage-overseas-in-january-2020



Agreed re USA agent99 although it may differ for travel elsewhere. Not everyone only visits the USA where their healthcare costs are the highest in the world. That's why many travel insurance policies differentiate between 'travel including the USA' and 'travel anywhere in the world EXCEPT the USA.'

So while the OHIP coverage is small in regards to the USA, it could be a much bigger percentage elsewhere.

From your own linked article, "_However, when travellers go to less expensive countries, these OHIP coverages could often cover the costs of medical attention that may have been needed. 
_

So it can in fact be a 'big deal' for some travellers depending on where they travel to.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Agreed re USA agent99 although it may differ for travel elsewhere. Not everyone only visits the USA where their healthcare costs are the highest in the world.


This is no doubt true, but I once tried entering different destinations when checking on-line quotations, and was surprised that they all came out the same. This was with just one agency, but you could be correct - why not check for yourself and get some concrete info to post?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

agent99 said:


> This is no doubt true, but I once tried entering different destinations when checking on-line quotations, and was surprised that they all came out the same. This was with just one agency, but you could be correct - why not check for yourself and get some concrete info to post?


Umm, I do not need to 'check for myself' agent99. I have been buying travel insurance for decades and have SEEN the question re 'including USA' or 'not including USA' many times. If you think about it, it simply makes sense. It costs far more if someone needs medical care in the USA than in the rest of the world. 

But if you don't want to take my word for it, go ahead and do some Googling. A quick look got me to this site: https://www.freespirittravelinsurance.com/blog/2019/01/travel-insurance-us/ Scroll down and you will see a price of 42 GBP (it's a UK site) for a 5 day single trip being used as an example for comparison use only. Then scroll back up and click on, 'cost of travel insurance in relation to visiting destinations in Europe' and you will find there that the same 5 day trip would cost 15 GBP to insure. 

If you want to go all the way through getting a quote from say CAA or whoever you want, for a trip to the US vs. a trip to France, you will find much the same thing. If you don't, it tells you that you can probably find a lower rate from another insuer for non-USA travel. Those with only one price for all, are in fact taking money from non-USA travellers to subsidize those who are travelling to the USA. Non-USA coverage should always be lower than USA included coverage for a traveller.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Umm, I do not need to 'check for myself' agent99.


Well you should if you wish to contradict me. I just did a comparison between a trip to Barcelona Spain and Miami Fl for same person, everything the same. And the cost is the same. This with RBC one of Canada's primary travel insurers. Other insurers may be different, but when comparing use ones located in Canada rather than UK.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Sigh, if common sense were in fact common(everyone had it) the term 'common sense' would not need to exist.

If an insurer quotes the same for US vs. non-US insurance agent99 then they must be using an 'average' claim amount for all. Common sense will tell you however that a claim for medical care in the US will far exceed a claim in other countries. With me so far?

So if they charge you as much to insure a trip of the same parameters to Barcelona as a trip to Miami, they are in fact charging either too much for the Barcelona trip or too little for the Miami trip. And I'm pretty sure which of the two it is. So those travelling to Barcelona and paying as much for insurance as those travelling to Miami are in FACT subsidizing those travelling to Miami. Those travelling to Miami SHOULD pay more since the claim is likely to be higher.

I suggest you find an insurer that charges according to where you are going along with the other paremeters like, age, duration of travel, cost of trip, etc. And regarding comparing those located in Canada, there is no law that says you must insure with an insurer located in Canada. I used to use a company called World Nomads who are located in Australia. I can't now because they only insure those under age 65. Guess why. Because claims are likely to be lower for people under age 65 and they choose to limit who they will cover that way, to keep the cost to the traveller they insure, lower. Younger people aren't subsidizing older people's insurance in other words.

You can use a 'one size fits' all insurer if you want, I prefer to use an insurer that differentiates on as many parameters as possible, including, 'US' vs. non-US' travel.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

LTA - I suggest you do more research. Go to Kanetix. They will get quotations from many insurers. Do it 2 or 3 time for different countries including USA. I found that out that all quotations cost same for a 1 month trip using someone a bit younger so no need to fill in the medical questionnaires. Common sense says to check the actual numbers, not what you think they should be.

Enough for me. nthego:


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I suggest you do more research. Go to World Nomads. They will give you a quotation for different countries. You will find that the price for a month in the USA differs from the price for one month in say the UK or France. Common sense says if something will cost more in one country vs. all others, the price to insure against it will change.

https://www.worldnomads.ca/travel-i...nf_YX8T_xlFQeqR-sv0tFxWk7mmZYiihoCsNsQAvD_BwE Try there and you will find $225 for a month in the USA and $179 for other countries.

I don't understand why you want to persist in denying what common sense should be telling you. It should cost more to insure for travel in the USA and it should cost less to insure for travel in other countries. If an insurer doesn't differentiate for that, then anyone travelling to non-USA countries is paying to subsidize those who are travelling to the USA. Do you understand that?

Common sense doesn't say check to see if an insurer is charging the same for every country, common sense says find the insurer who is NOT charging the same as that is what should be happening, it's not JUST what I think should be happening, it is what SHOULD be happening.

Read this link: https://www.worldtrips.com/insurance-101/how-much-does-travel-medical-insurance-cost That shows the daily rate can be as low as 44 cents per day for travel outside of the USA but only as low as 77 cents for travel in the USA.

Here is an insurer who BOASTS that they only look at two factors, trip cost and your age. If someone is covering you for medical costs does it make sense to you that they do not look at what those medical costs could be in the country/ies you plan to visit? They're lumping all countries into the same basket and charging those travelling to lower medical cost countries as much as those travelling to higher medical cost countries. Does that make sense to you? I love that they say that if your trip costs are higher, 'it makes sense' that your insurance cost will be higher. Yet they ignore that factor in terms of actual medical care costs being higher or lower.
https://www.https://www.worldtrips....el/planning/travel-insurance-cost-factors.htm

An insurer can use as many or as few factors in determining their price as they choose to. If you travel to the USA, you will be better off with one that does not choose to use actual medical costs as a factor. If you are travelling anywhere else, you will be better off finding one that DOES use destination and in particular the USA as a factor in determining the cost to you of insuring with them.


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## HermesHermes (Mar 24, 2017)

Longtimeago writes: "there is no law that says you must insure with an insurer located in Canada."

However, the logical corollary of 'you can buy it from anywhere" doesn't hold true. I looked into medical travel insurance in India (since I intend to winter there). Indian insurance companies won't sell to non-Indian residents.

So, I looked into World Nomads and BCAA. Their prices are similar. Well, I think WN was $200 cheaper than BCAA. Or maybe it was the other way around!

But, for a six month journey USD81 per month for very basic insurance seems high to me for a 64 year old man with no pre-existing conditions. And I would not even be travelling to the U$A.

To me, the main problem is not price but reputation - I want to buy only from a company that pays out claims that aren't intentionally fraudulent. Instead they seem to thrive on 'well, you had test X done and that is classed as being treated. So, we will deny your claim even though that test had nothing to do with what happened to you overseas'. The more I read about travel medical insurance the more or a fool's game it seems to be.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Wait until you are 80. $81/month will be a distant memory. I had to pay 10× that with $1000 deductible.
I agree that is a scam. But what do we do about it? Covid may keep us all home anyway.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

HermesHermes said:


> Longtimeago writes: "there is no law that says you must insure with an insurer located in Canada."
> 
> However, the logical corollary of 'you can buy it from anywhere" doesn't hold true. I looked into medical travel insurance in India (since I intend to winter there). Indian insurance companies won't sell to non-Indian residents.
> 
> ...


Now I understand why you are posting about losing your GIS payments if you leave Canada. 

Here's the thing HermesHermes, no one is 'entitled' to get what they want. If you don't like the price of insurance, don't buy any and see how that works out for you. You may get lucky and not need any medical care until the day you drop dead of a heart attack or whatever.

But complaining about it (or the rules for GIS) won't get you anywhere at all. You seem to think there should be an answer you like to everything you can't afford.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We bought a six month out of country medical and evac when we were 58 and 60 respectively with no heath issues (eight years ago). Travel to US, Europe, Africa, Cental America. 

We were able to select a deductable insurance option of 3K that reduced the premium by 25-30 percent. We would have selected a 10K deductable if it had been available.. We are not concerned with small bills, just the the large ones that could threaten our financial well being. There is always a certain amount that we are willing to self insure for.

The other plus was that we were able to extend the policy remotely if our travel extended past the contracted date. Which is what we did have to do.


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