# Villans and looters caught by technology



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm glad to see these people being prosecuted by new technology. The way I see it, there are lots of weak minded scumbags among us who would take advantage of you if they thought they could get away with it, and they all just showed their true colours. Strong willed people who aren't spoiled or mischievous don't get sucked into mob mentality. I've been in a riot myself and I didn't feel the uncontrollable need to light police cars on fire.

I keep my 720p phone camera rolling in my car now, because one thing I hate is people thinking that they can lie through their teeth to insurance because nobody has proof and get away with that "He said she said" mentality. I wonder how much affect this new technology will have on crime? Anybody can record video/audio and snap a pic in an instant today. Sure there will always be scum, but now they will think twice





































You can go on youtube and watch every car being flipped over in 720p from 20 different angles. There's even a video of a girl trying to protect her car and crying for them to leave it alone, and they punch her in the face. Many videos of other people standing up to the crowd and getting knocked out.

I hope they all get a criminal records and regret this. Sure it's harsh, but a precedence has to be set and people need to be held accountable for their actions. This really goes to show what Facebook and image tags can do to your identity, for the better imo

The average person is just a weak follower, but now the strong willed have another way to keep them at bay.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I hope that athlete's life is seriously set back from this. There are lots of scholarship deserving kids out there who don't have a doctor and a nurse for parents and would never set a police car on fire. I can't believe people are actually defending him for being "caught up in the moment" BS Now his family says they're in danger themselves. Well, I guess you shouldn't say mob mentality is ok now should you!

FB posts:


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## spirit (May 9, 2009)

*It takes a village to raise a child*

I think it was Hillary Clinton who popularized that phrase and I'm sure she did not have this in mind. I wonder how many people know those "brain dead" people causing the mayhem and will stand up and voice their disaproval. There are parents, teachers, employers, friends, relatives, neighbors who will recognize these people. One young man has parents who hold high positions in society who seem to be holding their son accountable for his actions. Will others step up to do the right thing? 
I was in New York a few years ago and our tour driver was going through Harlem. We were talking about the Watts riots and he told us that a few weeks later the young ones were muttering to do the same thing and cause mayhem on the streets. All the black neighborhood stood up to them. They were all out on the streets not letting the gang mentality take hold. I hope we collectively do the right thing and stand up to hold these people accountable. I hear the province is going to provide funding for prosecution. I do not want these self entitiled idiots to define my country.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> I hope that athlete's life is seriously set back from this. There are lots of scholarship deserving kids out there who don't have a doctor and a nurse for parents and would never set a police car on fire.


I'm so glad to see others as outraged as I was [and surprised how few made any comments on the forum]. *Thanks mode3sour for this thread.* 

The father of this criminal said 'the photo was misleading' and that he only wished his elder brother had been with him; eh, 17 years is too young to know right from wrong?! Pathetic excuse as usual & not very intelligent coming from a physician.

Not sure though why you think punishing them hard would be harsh, not at all for this type of crime, but I know some would quicky say to forget jails and just spend money on prevention.  

As usual, Rex Murphy said it best, 'scum of the earth' indeed:

*"all are a pathetic pack of cowardly destructive losers. An older generation, not bent by the winds of political correctness would rightly have called them the scum of the earth."*

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...o-tore-the-heart-out-of-vancouver/#more-42725


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

If I found out one of my kids was involved in something like this, they would probably prefer to be in jail.

I wonder if this recording phenomenon will help reduce future incidents like this?

It's funny how some people worry about Big Brother and the government spying on them and it turns out that Big Brother is us (and our phones).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^That doesn't remove the privacy concerns.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The technology will enable proper treatment. It remains to be seen whether the system will.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Fking stupid is all I gotta say.

I don't think jail is harsh at all. Its too leanient.

I think they should get all these degenerates to clean up the city, then liquidate their bank accounts to pay for everything they destroyed. Then send them to jail for a while. (but not too long, jail costs tax dollars)

Then people wonder why everyone hates each other and nobody smiles anymore. Of course not - look at the people we live with. They're all messed up.

I always play the ignorance card. The less I know about you, the happier I am. It's sad, but thats what I do. In the city, I come first.

There is a huge difference between country folk and city folk.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> ^That doesn't remove the privacy concerns.


If you want privacy, you can go live in the middle of nowhere or another country with even less regulation. There's lots of ways to protect your privacy

If you want to live among trusting citizens in a country with a balance between chaos and police state, clearly people can't be trusted with privacy and anonymity


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

A person rioting/ vandalizing in public surrounded by numerous witnesses and cameras has no possible expectation of privacy. I do think it's a breach of privacy to release the family's address (done with the waterpolo hopeful).


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I see what you're saying but is your name private? You licence plate? I can easily find your address with either. Where you live is not a secret at all

If you were to do something that pissed off a lot of people and it looked like you were getting away with it, I would expect a mad mob at your door. Usually when you piss off that many people you're already in custody or you're smart to leave your home. That's why witness protection exists

What is unfair, is that he's taking the blame for the crowd. C'est la vie!


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

*Agreed*



KaeJS said:


> Fking stupid is all I gotta say.
> I think they should get all these degenerates to clean up the city, then liquidate their bank accounts to pay for everything they destroyed. Then send them to jail for a while. (but not too long, jail costs tax dollars)


One of my concerns is that there's *too much* footage. The police won't be able to process it all. People will escape justice due to budgetary restraint. To offset the costs, I'd like the province/city to fine individuals caught for the cost of cleanup + costs of investigation + force them to participate in Vancouver's cleanup as part of their community sentencing. That way the rest of Vancouver can let them know what they think of their actions while they work off their debt to society.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

The problem with Canada is that we're too nice over here.

We need to be more *** kicking like the states. But not to their level. Somewhere inbetween. The states is too brutal, and Canada is too nice.

When riots like this happen in other countries - people get beat and shot in the leg. In Canada, our cops just sit and watch. In ANY of those pictures do you see cops trying to do anything to stop it?

In fact, I don't even see a SINGLE cop. That stupid guy in the first picture with the hockey stick is in front of BMO and there's not even any cops there.

... Oh, Canada...

"Canada; the best place to commit crime!" <-- basically that is what we say to foreigners.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The cops can only do so much, and they admitted they underestimated the situation. You don't just snap your fingers and the entire police force shows up. Then you'd all be complaining about the Stanley Cup security budget, seeing as they "over spent" on the Olympics and nothing happened

It's a lose-lose situation for the cops. Look what happened to their cars because they left them? What if a crowd decided to surround and beat up and disarm a cop???? They have to stick to training and formation.

What Canada should do is punish the people ID'd in the photos, after a proper investigation. This will take time. The cops shot flash sticks directly at people, tear gas, sprayed and beat them. Not sure what more you wanted? I'm surprised they didn't have the new sound device nearby they bought for the G20 though.

The Americans are working on a device that practically starts to microwave you from a distance or something. Is that what you want after you innocently see a hockey game?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> The Americans are working on a device that practically starts to microwave you from a distance or something. Is that what you want after you innocently see a hockey game?


I want them to make an example out of somebody or a group of people.

Nobody cares about jail. You'll be out in no time.

To be honest - if you're acting the way those people are acting. You should be beat up severely. I realize that the ratio of people to cops is like 100:1, but we need to make an example out of somebody.

Like I said, this type of thing would never fly in another country. People would be shot and killed by the police. Only in Canada would you get away with destroying banks, cars, setting cop cars on fire, punching cops in the face.

If a cop was punched in the face in the states - the guy who did it would be shot.

See what they did in Egypt when they were protesting? They just simply RAN PEOPLE OVER. And these guys had a good reason to protest. We didn't have a reason to riot except that we are morons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w&skipcontrinter=1

watch 0:20 to 0:35.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

The real problem I'm having trouble digesting is not the ratio of rioters to cops, but the ratio of Good Citizens to Moron Citizens.

How is it that more people weren't like "Hey, maybe we _shouldn't_ be blowing ish up?"

As opposed to everyone joining in and rioting...

THAT is what blows my mind.


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

this is my favourite video of the protestors..poor fellow i bet he'll think better then to be out in the [email protected] next time....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1rQCF8vr4Q


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> How is it that more people weren't like "Hey, maybe we _shouldn't_ be blowing ish up?"
> 
> As opposed to everyone joining in and rioting...
> 
> THAT is what blows my mind.


Most people are followers and don't think for themselves obviously



DanFo said:


> this is my favourite video of the protestors..poor fellow i bet he'll think better then to be out in the [email protected] next time....


Best youtube video of 2011, but it keeps getting taken down for some reason?

Here's another angle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeyMc4O9msk&feature=related


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> The real problem I'm having trouble digesting is not the ratio of rioters to cops, but the ratio of Good Citizens to Moron Citizens.
> 
> How is it that more people weren't like "Hey, maybe we _shouldn't_ be blowing ish up?"
> 
> ...


There were some people who tried to stop it but they were pushed aside. Fortunately they were not injured.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I felt that the police handled things as best they could. They strategically contained the rioters without unnecessarily provoking them. Very sensible. Had they gone in with guns-a-blazing it would have backfired on them, guaranteed. 

KaeJS, you need to watch the videos more closely. I saw plenty of police.

And sorry, but US-style justice is the last thing we need here. It's been proven time and again that a strict punishment approach to crime doesn't work, it only breeds more criminals. Thank god Canada has some sense. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And I really hate the media coverage of this event, especially calling the rioters "anarchists" Please, these are by and large average young (mostly) male Canucks fans, with some very deep issues, no doubt. Rather than all this mindless finger-pointing I'm more interested in the sociological factors that lead people to make sports such a large part of their identity. What void in their lives are they trying to fill and why? Simply calling them criminals and anarchists is a cop-out.

Here's an excellent write-up on what really happened. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-not-hooligans-is-responsibile-for-the-chaos


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> If you want privacy, you can go live in the middle of nowhere or another country with even less regulation. There's lots of ways to protect your privacy
> 
> If you want to live among trusting citizens in a country with a balance between chaos and police state, clearly people can't be trusted with privacy and anonymity


I'm not defending these vandals. But I think it's dangerous to be blase about our disappearing privacy. We're heading toward a society that will have vanishingly small areas of your life that are truly private. I'm not all that happy about it, but I'm resigned to its near-inevitability.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> The problem with Canada is that we're too nice over here.
> 
> We need to be more *** kicking like the states. But not to their level. Somewhere inbetween. The states is too brutal, and Canada is too nice.
> 
> ...


Clearly flamethrowers would have been a better choice? That's one way to shut down a riot pretty quickly.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Andrewf: I share your concerns about privacy disappearing overall. I just don't think it applies here to idiots rioting in public surrounded by witnesses, or the morons posting about it to Facebook. 

Sure, they may have some privacy settings on their account but the point of posting it online is to distribute the information to others, who have in turn shared it with others. 

For the most part, this wasn't done by yesterday's older generation who have no clue what technology can do, but by the youth who grew up with it and should better understand the potential. Yet I see a lot of ridiculous arrogance, posing for cameras while committing crimes, bragging about their stolen goods. The older criminals are at least smart enough to not publicly broadcast they're committing crimes.

But I have no privacy concerns with this. They broadcast the information to friends who in turn shared that information with others. If you want some privacy, don't post about it on the internet.


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

As for privacy concerns being downtown that night with 100 000 of your fellow citizens doesn't seem to be asking for too much privacy.... it would be more of a concern if they were alone in their yard (in the country since city living is never private) and got caught by the google streetview car.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

*Mr. Water Polo*

At least he isn't making excuses...

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...med-says-teen-involved-in-vancouver-riot?bn=1


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

The thing I'm not quite clear on is that it's illegal to tape a phone conversation without telling the other party you're recording it, and illegally recorded phone conversations may not be allowed in court as evidence, and yet it seems these videos could be used as evidence -- I don't understand the distinction. I guess if you're holding a video camera or a cell phone, etc., that could serve as fair warning to the parties you're filming that their actions are being captured on video, but are there laws against posting that material publicly without people's consent? And can they be used in legal proceedings?

I'm just curious, it feels like a grey area to me.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

brad said:


> The thing I'm not quite clear on is that it's illegal to tape a phone conversation without telling the other party you're recording it, and illegally recorded phone conversations may not be allowed in court as evidence, and yet it seems these videos could be used as evidence -- I don't understand the distinction.


No consent is needed for images. IF you are in a public space, then people can snap away if it is not for commercial uses. I don't know about video, but presumably you can strip away the audio and the output would be admissible.

It gets trickier, especially post-9/11. I think (but hopefully someone can correct me), that even if you are captured on private property, but from a place reasonably viewable from public spaces, that is also permitted (hence all the shots by papparazzi). This used to be true of government and other sensitive (utilities) buildings too, but I think 9/11 changed all of that.

I'm sure once charges begin to appear, that we'll see exactly the extent of privacy we have in this new world.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I guess I'll clarify: you don't have any reasonable expectation of privacy when you're committing a crime in public. Otherwise, I'm not so cool about someone following me around with a camera, even if it is in public.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I guess I'll clarify: you don't have any reasonable expectation of privacy when you're committing a crime in public. Otherwise, I'm not so cool about someone following me around with a camera, even if it is in public.


You realize the contradiction you're making there!

There are security cameras all over nowadays on private and public property, so I don't believe some of this bs at all. You're being completely paranoid if you think you shouldn't be recorded in public.

However, having worked with very powerful cameras from a very good vantage point, the law is quite clear not to point it on private property. That I'll accept but even so it's pretty BS unless you have something to hide. It's a huge crime enabler


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

We don't allow surveillance when it is a person (it's called stalking), but when it's an electronic device, it's okay?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes there is no right to privacy in public places. That includes email on a company server. Although in that case it is only available to the company without a subpeona.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

One of the few advantages of the Maple Leafs is that will don't need worry about a Stanely Cup hockey riot in Toronto.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> We don't allow surveillance when it is a person (it's called stalking), but when it's an electronic device, it's okay?


Eh I'm not a lawyer and my view is what I personally think is right and wrong, which I don't think anyone can perfectly define as "okay or not okay". Laws change all the time for many reasons.

With stalking I think it requires a complaint. If I follow you around, no cop will intervene until you complain!! Same thing on your private land... it doesn't mean you can break the law and claim a right to privacy. If anybody complains then the cops have a duty to investigate!

The difference is, cops don't go around preventing stalkers just like they can't snoop around your private land without a reason. There's balance somewhere between chaos and a police state.


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## Zara Mari (May 19, 2011)

One more stuff they produce out of it are those shows like "TOP 10 dumbest criminals" etc etc. I think it is really good that technology helps out in a lot of stuff but one thing that I have noticed is that it seems to take the excitement and thrill out of sports and other activities. Although it maybe good in reviewing if a ball is out or in basketball or football, it maybe not that good for players in stuff like poker or something. Of course your strategy is your own but if the whole world sees it, they might plan it out and learn how to defeat you.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A couple more people outed........and they are hardly "anarchists and criminals" as was originally suggested by the police and city officials.

One guy is a professional mountain biker, with a sponsorship deal........or at least he used to have one.

One woman snatching some purses was a student at University.

Social media outing reminds of the old public stockade days. 

Public shame and embarrassment may be a better, and much cheaper punishment, than paying to house a person in jail for a short period of time.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Read what this nurse wrote about the apologies: http://riot2011frontlines.tumblr.com/post/6682186192/a-e-r-nurses-thoughts-on-an-instigators-apology It puts things into perspective

I can't believe how people feel sorry for them and accept their apologies that they only make _after_ they've been outed on Youtube or Facebook

This is better than tattooing _douchebag_ on their foreheads imo and I hope their potential employers see these videos and photos as well. I sure wouldn't hire someone without Googling them first


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Great link mode3sour - It certainly does put things in perspective.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wow........what a great article.............

Every criminal expresses their "sorrow" after they are caught.

They are "sorry" they have to suffer the consequences of their actions. They are "sorry" they have been outed for the person hiding behind the veneer.

I will believe they are truly sorry, when they plead guilty and accept the punishment. If they instruct their hired lawyers to find a way around the charges, as seems to be already unfolding.........they aren't sorry.

Every person identified should be charged with a criminal offence, even if the charges are going to be dropped or plea bargained in the future.

That will ensure the guilty have criminal records, as they rightly deserve.

Poor kids would suffer that fate. Wealthy and middle class kids should to.

They aren't half as sorry as they will be, once they realize any criminal background check will reveal they were charged with a crime, regardless of the final disposition.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Fking stupid is all I gotta say.
> 
> I don't think jail is harsh at all. Its too leanient.
> 
> I think they should get all these degenerates to clean up the city, then liquidate their bank accounts to pay for everything they destroyed. Then send them to jail for a while. (but not too long, jail costs tax dollars)


But you have to catch them first and then prosecute them. Fine having
cameras is one thing, but you need to put a name on the face..and unless
someone steps forward to say who the face is..(like the athelete), how do
you procede with laying criminal charges? Go and beat submissions out of 
them like at the G20?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Naw a lot of them have been ID'd on Facebook, YouTube and dedicated sites and subsequently reported to the VPD. Some of the people ID'd have _afterwards_ turned themselves in to the VPD and/or made public apologies. How long before or what the consequences will be who knows. This is the first time people have been ID'd en masse online, and maybe people will think twice next time


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Naw a lot of them have been ID'd on Facebook, YouTube and dedicated sites and subsequently reported to the VPD. Some of the people ID'd have _afterwards_ turned themselves in to the VPD and/or made public apologies. How long before or what the consequences will be who knows. This is the first time people have been ID'd en masse online, and maybe people will think twice next time


Yes, you have a point. By putting it on a mass social network like Facebook,
the idiots involved would eventually be discovered, even without a reward
from the VPD. That is why probably some of them on camera are now
coming forward..fess up and face the music or wait to get caught eventually
and face a much harsher sentence.

The courts may be more lenient if the perpretrator comes forward to beg
the courts mercy in a much humble frame of mind from the "feeding frenzy"
of the mass riot..and hope that he (or she) won't face jail time or stiff
fines as a result. 

I think that a year of community service and some monetary contribution,
based on their ability to pay, as well as a criminal conviction
might be in order as a deterent. The last one will affect them for many years
and would require more money on their part to get a pardon.


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