# How do young people get ahead these days?



## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

I'm a new new graduate working at a pretty good paying job (55k+). I consider myself VERY fortunate and I thank my lucky stars everyday doing a job I like with above average pay. I currently live at home and I'm contemplating moving out to North York (Yonge and Finch) because that area is gorgeous and much closer to work than where I am now, saving me about 50 minutes each way (about 2 hours a day). I have trouble understanding how young people are supposed to save much considering how high housing prices are. So here is a break down of my spending estimates when I move out

Take home pay a month $3k~

Rent: $700 (this is pretty low for sharing a room in a two bedroom condo)
Groceries: $200
Eating out: $50
Mobile Phone: $45
Internet: $45 (I currently pay for the internet at home)
Clothing: $50 (average over the year)
Misc Shopping: $150
Public transportation: $50 (right now, I spend $100+ which I hope to eliminate once I move closer to work)
Universal Life Premium with RBC: $65 (this was SUCH a bad financial decision, I'm waiting for the next five years to finish so I can withdraw my money with no penalty) 

Total expenses: $1290
Savings: $1710 50% savings rate (aim to max TFSA then RRSP)

Average home: $300 000
Min Down Payment: $60 000
Time to save: 3 years

I paid off all 17K my OSAP loans. WOOHOO!  I have an emergency fund that covers about 10-12 months of living expenses. I opened a People's Trust TFSA and I'm looking into investing (how risky would it be to beat 3%?). I have a RRSP matching contribution plan from my work, so I contribute 6% to bring up to 10.5% total which is pretty good I think? I don't expect to buy a home soon but I'm just wondering how my financial plan works. Here are some of my questions:

1. Are my expectations reasonable? I would like to save on as much rent as I can but the area I want to live in is quite pricey.  
2. How can I mitigate the risk of housing price increases? I don't know if three years down the line, $350 000 become the average.
3. Should I focus on TFSA first? How risky should it be?
4. Is my budget frugal enough? I'm not sure where I can cut back as I already don't drink (by choice) and don't own a car. 
5. Any tips on finding cheap rent? I've been around some houses and they were pretty disgusting which made me look into condos which aren't cheap. 
6. How do young people even find the money to travel Europe? 0.0 Seems like I'm already making good money and I don't even think about a trip there.


Thanks for your time and help!


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## MasterCard (Aug 2, 2013)

Welcome to the GTA - the cost of living is brutal. I think we get a break on housing where as BC gets a break on vehicle insurance.
Read this report from RBC: http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/canadian-housing/house-may2013.pdf
Anyway, I am pretty much in the same boat as you. Graduated in 2012, making roughly the same income.
Was looking at mortgaging a $250K condo works out $1300/month plus CMHC fees and such. 
It's roughly 50% of my income - so I just couldn't justify living on my own, I think I would want to make $75K at the least and put more money down.
But yeah, I think the people who are partying it up and traveling the world don't have goals like owning property or investing so they just spend spend spend whatever money they get.


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## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

Are you renting? It's hard to choose between staying at home to save money but waste a lot of time commuting or spend more money to be closer to work. It's hard when I consider the non-monetary factors such as experiencing independence, and a life so different from living in the suburbs. I wonder what other young people's thought processes are.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

1. that area you would be doing good to get a 1bdrm condo for $1300 a month plus utilities.
2. save lots ( I know really helpful, eh)
3. Yes, not risky if you are considering using the $ as a home downpayment
4. You may be able to save with a different cell phone or internet deal/provider/plan
5. find a roommate, splitting on rent, might save you a few hundred $. Maybe not an option for a girl to live w a stranger, but as a guy, I did this w 2 roommates in the past, it worked out well both times
6. the difference is some of them don't think about saving $


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## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

I don't think I can save much on the internet and phone bill. For internet I have Teksavvy cable. And for phone I have the $39 Fido plan. Seems like making more money is the answer...


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I think you're doing great. Your budget has you saving 50% of your take-home, which is amazing. Most people can't save anywhere near that much. By starting this level of savings at a young age you're well on track to financial independence. Your plan to max TFSA and then RRSP is exactly the right order, since you'll presumably be making more money later in your career.

I live in the Yonge/Finch area and you're right - it's expensive to live around here. I think sharing a 2-bedroom apt or condo would be the most affordable way to go. Where is your job?


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm not clear on what the problem is. You just graduated, make good money and save a lot of it. 

If that's not getting ahead, then I don't know what is.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I think expectations need to be curbed a little bit. You are doing great and have a clear target to achieve a financial goal and purchase a home within 3 years after graduating. That puts you ahead of a large majority of your peers.

Be patient and good luck.

Re: mitigating risk of increase in housing costs - not much you can do here. One could argue that you could invest the money, since there should be some correlation amongst real estate returns and equity markets, but the downside risk of this maneuvre given your 3 year goal target is too high. Just save the money as cash, and if it takes a 4th year of saving, thats not a big deal on the grand scheme of things.

Re: question about how people travel to Europe etc. Debt or no savings.


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## the_apprentice (Jan 31, 2013)

The only way my friends your age get ahead is with the help of their parents. Travelling to Europe is easy to do when you don't have any rent to pay. Don't compare yourself to others because there will always be someone who has more; and many others who would love to be in your position. Be patient, you're in an excellent situation and seem to have realistic goals. Your expenses are quite minimal in my opinion. Keep at it and you'll achieve your 3 year goal easily.

My situation is very similar to yours and I have been saving as much as I could since I started working part-time. I purchased a pre-construction condo 2 years ago, I've recently purchased my second new vehicle, and I vacation twice a year. It's not about how high your income is, but how you manage your expenses and you seem to be doing an excellent job. You will get ahead at this pace...


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## Jagas (Feb 11, 2013)

You are doing awesome. I do not see any need to be in a huge rush to buy, especially so early in your career.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Love this thread. 

How young people get ahead is by either delaying their large purchase decisions (house) or by accelerating their wealth accumulation by pairing with a similar, like-minded spouse. 

Another very very simple way to get ahead is to set your spending and saving patterns when you are young, and then keep them in place as you age (and you convert more of your stored human capital to financial capital). 

So if you save 50% of your income when it is $3K, and set your spending patterns based on $3K of monthly income, then if/when your salary increases, and you keep saving 50% of your income, and living as though you are still earning $3K, you are set. 

It really isn't a magic formula to explain. It's probably much harder to accomplish, because not many people do this in the world outside CMF, and because people "need" cars and houses or housing equity (or trips to Europe etc.) Note that I actually don't care how people spend their money.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm not as young as I used to be, but at 32 I like to think I still remember my youth. My advice would be to slow down. You're saving about $20k a year, that's incredible. 

I'd save it as cash, and keep expenses low. If you must scratch the investment itch, I'd be looking towards blue chip dividends myself. 

I wouldn't move out until you had a roommate to move in with. (A like minded future spouse would be great, double your savings!)

Every step you make now is worth 2 in 10 years, and 3 by retirement. Now is the time to be saving hoards of cash. Life is very busy in your early to mid 20s, and cash is king. 

Cash pays for weddings, homes, and fills in the gaps at maternity leave time. Maybe you want all those things, maybe you don't. But at this time in your life, you have to balance long-term with short-term far more than you will in ten more years.

As far as other people, feel free to try and keep up with the "Joneses" Just because they're going to Europe doesn't mean they can really afford to.


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

don't just try to get ahead, try to have fun while living your life too.


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Save more, spend less.

If you can find loaves of bread for less than 25cents let me know. That is the going rate for us.

Renting right now is the deal of a lifetime. keep doing it.


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## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions. I was so lucky to find a condo sharing with one roommate for LESS than $700. Amazing. Now I can save more for expensive groceries in this part of town.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

My thoughts to get ahead is that first one needs to get their spending under control, then they need to put some aside for savings. Finally, when you are young, build your career as much as possible. This will help your future earnings. You have the first two, and just work your butt off for the third.

You can't get rich by be frugal. One can only save so much, but earning potential is unlimited. When I was younger, my main focus was getting as much experience as I could and building up my 'Human Capital' as another poster here calls it. I took jobs that were lateral moves and more work with same pay, but it really paid off later on. I am the youngest in my whole area by at least a decade, and this has been pretty much my career but get paid the same.


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## GalacticPineapple (Feb 28, 2013)

If you want to get ahead, move to Fort McMurray (seriously). Failing that...

-Moving is expensive. If I was in your boots I'd pick a place where I could live for at least 5 years, and then get in that place. Doesn't matter if it's a new house, a one-bedroom condo or sharing an apartment...whatever you can live with. You will spend a ridiculous amount of money moving around if you're unhappy. Just sink the cost and then you can start thinking about saving, retirement plans, etc. Nothing will destroy your savings plans like moving. 
-In re: RRSP/TFSA, I like funding the RRSP and using the tax refund to fund the TFSA. Just make sure you don't cash the RRSP, because you won't get that contribution room back. I have made this mistake too many times. 
-I don't find budgets very useful. Life costs what it costs. I stopped carrying cash a while ago (plastic only), and find it saves me a bit. Otherwise just use your head. Can you spend less? Then spend less.
-Travel: I think most people just go into debt to do this. I spent about $10k on two trips to Europe in my 20s. Took me years to pay off. Oddly enough, that killed my travel bug.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

To get ahead, spend less than you make, or make more than you spend and save/invest the excess.

Continue for a significant amount of time.

I think your budget is a bit tight, but with that savings rate you'll max out your TFSA quickly, and the RRSP money will build up nicely.
I was living at that spending level for a while, but it is hard to maintain, add in a car and it's not possible.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Froufrou.....call your cell phone provider, explain to them that you are setting a budget and that your cell bill is either going to have to be cancelled and changed to another provider, or you will have to cut some features. Ask if they have any promotions that may help you reduce your monthly bill.

I live in the same area, and many people have roomies to save on rent.

Also...I would recommend either more education, to ensure a raise or a better job in the future, or a part time job. As MG mentioned above, you can live from the same budget, but keep the excess to help get ahead.


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## jordan_paul (Jul 1, 2013)

If you want to get ahead get out of Toronto. Seriously. Within 50 minutes of Toronto nice houses can be bought for less then $200k. I'm 22 with a house, a truck, a bunch of toys and my investment portfolio is growing weekly. I couldn't say that if I lived in Toronto. 

Think of the future too though. Do you really want to raise your kids at Jane and Finch in Toronto, having to drive somewhere to see grass or throw a ball around etc?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We did that. Bought a house and developed a career. Finally returned to Toronto after 14 years. Never regretted it.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I went out to lunch with a friend today and she was telling me how hard her daughter is having it making ends meet.She works at a full time job for $12 per hour , lives free with her dad but has a bank loan and a student loan.She was crying to her mom how she can't pay her bills ,god help her if she had to pay real world expenses.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

froufrou,

Seems to me you have your budget and saving under control. Here are some of ideas that may help.

1. Forget the RRSP until after you buy a house. Just use the TFSA. 
2. While you are saving for a house, learn how to invest in stocks and bonds, then buy some. Make sure you are conservative because the goal is, you want the house, not a pile of losers in a portfolio. The reason you buy some, is for experience and to learn. When you have enough to buy a house, just sell it all and go for it. 
3. Consider aiming at a house with a rental suite in it, and renting out some space (less than 50% of the property to retain tax free capital gain status). So while you are saving for a house, learn about being a landlord, and investigate local landlord associations and what education and support they provide so if you go this route, you will be prepared. You need to learn how to get the best tenants, and protect your property. If you go this route, a percentage of your interest and other expenses will be tax deducible, but your capital gain upon sale, since you lived in it, will be tax free. This is better than a RRSP, but you can still have the latter too, it's just better to get the house first. 

I wouldn't worry about house prices going up significantly in the next 5 years. Prices will probably be about the same. However, eventually house prices will take off and increase annually for a number of years. The young folks who are not in by that time, will likely get left behind. For that reason, I think you are wise to aim at the house first. (Get a variable rate mortgage through a mortgage broker. It will save you thousands of dollars in payments.) 

After you get your house thing under control, you can go back to stocks, bonds, and RRSPs.


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## Y3LLoWF3LLoW (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree except with point #1.

Since this is your first home, you are eligible for first time home buyer plan. Which means when you want to buy your first home, you get to pull $25000 out of your rrsp tax free. So if you max out your RRSP every chance you get, you'll be getting tax returns at your marginal rate + any appreciation in the RRSP. This will get you your first home the fastest. You'll have to pay it all back later, but by then you'll get a few raises and bonuses that'll cover that.



Pluto said:


> froufrou,
> 
> Seems to me you have your budget and saving under control. Here are some of ideas that may help.
> 
> ...


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

marina628 said:


> I went out to lunch with a friend today and she was telling me how hard her daughter is having it making ends meet.She works at a full time job for $12 per hour , lives free with her dad but has a bank loan and a student loan.She was crying to her mom how she can't pay her bills ,god help her if she had to pay real world expenses.


Full time? Like 40 hrs per wk? Or only 35??
She has enough hours for atleast one another full time job in there. Sounds like there is more parenting to be done...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I managed to support myself quite well on $12 per hour.

Of course it was...............33 years ago.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

My wife and I support our family of four on $16/h for me and $14/h for her. Of course, I live in a relatively inexpensive area.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

well she does not pay any rent ,groceries or utilities and her pay is actually $13.30 for 40 hour weeks.But she is taking a vacation to BC next month because she was able to get some reduction in her loan payments.My daughter turned down a $1500 scholarship for being the top student in her course because the #2 girl needs the money more than she does.Technically she does need it but she knows we will help her out and can.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

In 2001 my husband had a net pay $500 a week and we could pay our mortgage payment , car payment ,eat out once a week and had everything we needed .I was drawing a $1300 monthly payment from my insurance payout that I invested and we used that money for his RSP($500 a month) ,utilities ,Insurance and a bit of savings for our yearly vacation.In fact over 3 years we saved enough cash that he was able to finish the basement in the home ,it was $22,000 .This girl drinks and smokes so it is easy to tell where her paychecks are going and unfortunately some things wont ever change.My housekeeper is 64 don't have a pot to piss in because even with 3 jobs she works to support her gambling habit .


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## tiffbou2 (Jul 4, 2013)

I feel badly for young people in the job market in my region - the ones who work hard and got an education and just can't get a break. But I do think young people see a lot of wants as needs and that's part of the reason they have trouble getting ahead.


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

+1


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

marina628 said:


> .My daughter turned down a $1500 scholarship for being the top student in her course because the #2 girl needs the money more than she does.Technically she does need it but she knows we will help her out and can.


Amazing. That's a rare person right there.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My daughter is an amazing person for sure ,even though she will only be 21 next month ,she has such a caring nature and always have been that way.She has tea with a 80+ lady in her building because she feels bad for her living alone ,she can't say no to her but after 15 months now she has about 50 different teas because they try new ones together and as my daughter says she cant eat a full cake alone so she does the bakery run and shares with the old folks lol.


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

^ if only we had more people like this and less scumbags....


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

SkyFall said:


> ^ if only we had more people like this and less scumbags....


Great point. To concur, if we only asked more of our kids and gave them less...


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

My dearly departed mother would get a chuckle from this thread.

She grew up during the depression (born 1921) on a family farm in southern Manitoba. They had NO money and everyone pitched in---just to survive. Thoughts of saving or retirement -------non-existant.

I'm not advocating "the good ole days" but really.......Enjoy the moment, time passes, you/we will all survive.

WE live in Canada afterall!


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Marina just reread about your daughters elderly friend, that is the best!

My oldest son hooks up with an old native fellow, kinda stuck in Winnipeg, they get along great, seem to spend all their time arguing about the new hockey season.

So proud of him for this relationship, a part of his life that will never leave


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Generally speaking bad times make good people and good times make bad people

Cheers


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## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

How can young people get ahead by delaying big purchases? Isn't a house wealth building? Also, given the astronomical prices of housing these days, how do people save up for downpayment?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Young people can do......exactly what they are doing.

Move back home, pay off their debt, and save some money.

Inter-generational living is becoming the new normal.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Alpha women?



> Some people wonder why alpha women don’t choose to marry househusbands. *The answer is simple: Women don’t like to marry down.* Successful women want men who are as high-achieving as they are, especially as fathers of their children. The truth is that no matter how open-minded we think we are, most of us secretly regard men without paid work as slackers – and that’s not likely to change, no matter how enlightened we all become.


Author's name is Margaret


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I think that they get ahead just like the previous generation did.

They get some post secondary education. They are not afraid to work hard. They are willing to relocate. They are willing to try different career choices. They use their smarts to recognize a good opportunity when it comes along. They do not feel entitled. When they experience a failure they learn from it and have the ambition to move forward.

They don't sit at home, they don't just finish high school, or not even, and then sit around all day. They don't remain in their hometowns and complain that there are no jobs or no opportunities. They are not satisfied with the prospect of working in menial jobs all their lives so they get out and do something about it. They understand that the world is a small place and getting smaller all the time. 

I think the economy has changed and they will have to change with it. My two certainly are not having any difficulties. Absolutely no change from my generation. I think that there is lots of opportunity, and there will be even more as the boomer population ages/retires. They just have to get on the ladder and move forward.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

m3s said:


> Alpha women?
> 
> 
> 
> Author's name is Margaret


[shrug] And maybe, if we are trading in stereotypes, _men don't like to marry up_. (I think it's charming that Wente felt the need to point out that she, too, is among the class of elite women she's describing.)

(And by charming I mean nauseating.)

(p.s. these are intended to be criticisms of the article, not the post...)


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

And alpha males want nothing to do them,they don't want ''regular'' men,which is fine,but....how many alpha men want them?
True alpha males(at least financially)are multi-millionaires,do you think these young men are looking for these i am women hear me roar types?...no(they are looking for a wife that will take of the family and him and ''his'' needs,prob sounds bad but it is the truth most likely(a ceo of the family,and the compass of of his/hers personal life)this is mostly likely accurate.
I find it funny how much different the scale is financially between the sexes-margaret wente is a ''alpha"alpha of what,alpha of pissing off the public at large with her columns.A writer/juro(no matter what sex the person is)is not ''alpha'' of any [email protected] measured as a whole.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

No one wants to marry down. The Wente article was just a partial acknowledgement of the fact.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Years ago I remember reading an article on how women moving into medicine, specifically, had changed the marriage patterns of nurses. Because it used to be that male doctors married nurses...but when women started becoming doctors, *they* married other doctors, reducing the overall supply of single doctors available for nurses to marry.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

kcowan said:


> No one wants to marry down. The Wente article was just a partial acknowledgement of the fact.


+1.

*'Successful women want men who are as high-achieving as they are' *- why should this be offensive to anyone?

I mostly read G&M business section as I can't stand the majority of journalists there [female/male], and Ms. Wente is one of them, but it doesn't mean that I completely disagree with her. And in any case, it's good to disagree, so I'm amused at those immediately jumping on the negative stereotypes [of whatever article/book, etc.]. No need to get offended in a jiffy, or take it personal, even when indeed the author can/is offensive at times.

Have women of our great-grandmothers' generations been able to accomplish what many women today have? 

No matter where they are from, I celebrate women's accomplishments! Imagine a world with only alpha males, who btw, in today's high-tech world, could be house-husbands as well. 

*"When women have a voice in national and international affairs, wars will cease forever."* Know why I quoted that? Hint: who was the 1st Canadian woman to graduate from med. school?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

For what it's worth (and I think, not a lot) my disdain was for Wente's careful positioning of herself as an "alpha female." Using the descriptors she provided, I fit in that category too...but I *do not* walk around describing myself or thinking of myself as an "alpha female." [shudder]


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

in a marked counter-trend are professional women who look to pair up with tradesmen. This is no secret, it's a north american phenom.

this past summer i was explaining to a politician friend on the phone why she was hearing deafening bursts from a chainsaw. A tree surgeon is taking down a weed manitoba maple just outside my window, i said. Have you noticed how all the arborists in our district always turn out to be vikings, i added.

the municipal politician is blonde, pretty, athletic, has a masters' degree in urban planning & a great job.

ooh yea, she said. Better to date an electrician, bankers are *schlubs*.

when he was 12, my son told me that he thought my earnings were just right. "A little bit more than a plumber but a lot less than a lawyer," he told me.

he's now 20 & i'm convinced these days that my plumber - who co-owns the business with his brother & sister - is out-earning me by a long shot.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> For what it's worth (and I think, not a lot) my disdain was for Wente's careful positioning of herself as an "alpha female." Using the descriptors she provided, I fit in that category too...but I *do not* walk around describing myself or thinking of myself as an "alpha female." [shudder]


I simply laughed that part off. Why give her more attention than she deserves?


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I have no time for young people who are moaners and groaners about their lot in life.

It is easily changed. They just need to get off their lazy backsides, develop some initiative and do what is needed to move forward. Get more training or move to an area that has jobs. I have nephews and nieces who are sitting on their collective duffs and bemoaning the fact that there are no jobs simply because they lack initiative, are too afraid to move away from mommy, daddy, and like minded friends, or too lazy to actually think about going back to school and/or getting a trade. They live in cottage country, north of GTA ,where there never will be good paying jobs for unskilled workers and few good paying jobs for skilled workers. So it is fast food outlet jobs, UI and social assistance for them.....and a life of bemoaning 'poor me'. They are the ones that always look at others and say things like 'lucky you'. It is not luck. Just hard work, initiative, and using your noodle.

It has always been the same. Some do nothing, others get off their duffs and make it happen. Unfortunately our society often ends up supporting the former in some fashion.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Hey humble,i guess the more important question is,who is better in bed!The carpenter who swings his hammer all day or the lawyer who sits on his duff doing paper work?This might be the ''real'' reason lol
I am actually being serious.


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Along the lines of your thread Fraser there is a young (22) Vietnamese lad at the pharmacy who will tackle any project at work, computers, dispensing, sweep the sidewalk, dusting, answer phones-------------he wants to get ahead, such a treat to work with.

The locals working with him are jealous of this initiative, but hey he doesn't give a ****.

This fellow will succeed and good on him!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There have been lists of companies laying off employees in the news lately. RIM, Loblaws, and Sears to name a few.

New construction permits are way down, projects have been shelved, and new home building is well below previous levels.

Since 70% of our economy is based on housing construction..........there are going to be many skilled trades looking for work.

The bubble in the west isn't going to continue. The market for Alberta oil and shale gas is withering up. The US will be exporting in a couple of years.

Tough times ahead for Canadian workers, I predict.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I never understood people who instead of emulating the behaviour of successful people just complain about it instead. The little things should be standard across the board. Show up for work on time or early, put in an honest work day, be reliable, be honest. If you can do that it becomes a habit and requires no work. It's as easy as ordering your morning coffee. Once you get those simple things down you are now average. If you can add a little more effort you can stand above the rest. The cream rises to the top. Don't expect to get ahead if you can't even get up in the morning.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

sags said:


> There have been lists of companies laying off employees in the news lately. RIM, Loblaws, and Sears to name a few.
> 
> New construction permits are way down, projects have been shelved, and new home building is well below previous levels.
> 
> ...


Maybe. I'm in commercial and we have been ramping up for a few years. We finally hit a peak number of field employees, since 2010, and we are dying to hire more. In Calgary things are moving along pretty well. I'm flourishing anyway.

I'm trying to use the money and good fortune I've been having and put it towards education. Hopefully I can stay ahead of the curve. I want to get a degree while work is plentiful so I'm not trying to upgrade with swaths of other people if work drops off.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> New construction permits are way down, projects have been shelved, and new home building is well below previous levels.
> 
> Since 70% of our economy is based on housing construction..........there are going to be many skilled trades looking for work.
> 
> ...




sags won't you please allow me to disagree with that. A skilled tradesman is worth his weight in gold. For decades now we have not had enough of them in north america. Those we have in canada will always find high-paying work, imho.

it seems to me that only in the past few years - very few years - has attention been properly paid to the fact that every society needs to train advanced technicians & tradesmen. I think canada needs to radically reform education systems. Because the jobs are there in the non-liberal arts sector ... infrastructure, construction, medicine, pharmacology, space, engineering, agriculture, communications ... the jobs to keep building, operating & repairing these systems are screaming for workers. The money is good. There is no reason for our youth not to be raised up to understand that skilled tradesmanship is an excellent career path. We parents need to make sure that our kids get exposure to this.

a remote cousin of mine had a last, unexpected child, born many years after all the others. Like so many unexpected late arrivals, he turned out to be a golden boy. He was a fine athlete, was darling cute & bright as a kid, was worshipped by an entire clan of mothers, aunts & grandmothers, was doted upon by everyone including his teachers. The family gave him every opportunity, would easily have financed a doctorate in university if that had been the route he'd wanted to take.

now he's in his early 20s & guess what? he's a fireman! just graduated! he loves his work & takes the challenge of helping society as his own profound & personal responsibility. He's out there every day in his community, serving on youth programs, making sure that everything to do with safety & people gets locked down & looked after A-OK.

the parents are so proud ...


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I agree with this completely. Heck, where I live we are bringing in skilled building tradesmen from Ireland. Cannot seem to get the unemployed ones from other parts of Canada to move.

The economy is changing but there will always be a demand for people in basic industries. As an example, the cost of installing solar energy panels in Canada has decreased by about 30 percent over the past few years and will continue to go down. The cost of fossil fuel is increasing. Our local technical institute has a two or three year program in solar technology. The classes are filled to overflowing and contractors/builders are desperate for these skills. Who knew that this would become a new skill/trade? And there are lots of examples in other lines of endeavour-especially health care.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

jcgd said:


> If you can do that it becomes a habit and *requires no work.* It's as easy as ordering your morning coffee. Once you get those simple things down you are now average. If you can add a little more effort you can stand above the rest.


I have to wonder why some people think they are somehow "above the rest" by simply showing up early, even just to drink their morning coffee and gossip, than someone who might actually accomplish more work in less time (who instead values their spare time for family/gym/hobbies/full night's rest etc etc....) Good optics and networking is just as important as an honest work day (Looking busy, being early, smoke breaks and eating out with coworkers, a$$ kissing etc etc) Relocating to where the opportunities are does help a lot. I do agree it requires little work to get ahead.

"In a culture that that relentlessly promotes avarice and excess as the good life... A person happy doing his own work is usually considered an eccentric, if not subversive. Ambition is only understood if it's to rise to the top of some imaginary ladder" Calvin and Hobbes cartoonist, Bill Waterson


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I highly disagree skilled trades in construction is on the decline.My vantage 
Point might be one of a small mom and pop operation(which I am)but I am drowing in work and on top of that,at least from my perspective there are few young people to hire.
most young kids don't know the difference between a Robertson screwdriver to a Phillips and its not surprising half wouldn't even know how to change a simple burnt out light-bulb(I'm not even joking)
I'm in the non commercial environment so I'm not relying on government spending projects ect,I have my hand in both new home construction(private)and the remodel segement(existing private home work)
where I live Winnipeg is expected to grow to about 1.4 million people within a 25 yr period,that is about 700,000 thousand population growth.
I don't see where I live demand is going to slow down,also these corporations that supply the market with construction material(roofing products)have a vested interest in manufacturing building compents to last only so long so them and stockholders can have a contuined supply being sold in any economic condition.
The only way the industry will hault is if we have a financial collespe but having said that were all fu$k anyways if that happens.that is my blue collar analysis.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

m3s said:


> I have to wonder why some people think they are somehow "above the rest" by simply showing up early, even just to drink their morning coffee and gossip, than someone who might actually accomplish more work in less time (who instead values their spare time for family/gym/hobbies/full night's rest etc etc....) Good optics and networking is just as important as an honest work day (Looking busy, being early, smoke breaks and eating out with coworkers, a$$ kissing etc etc) Relocating to where the opportunities are does help a lot. I do agree it requires little work to get ahead.
> 
> "In a culture that that relentlessly promotes avarice and excess as the good life... A person happy doing his own work is usually considered an eccentric, if not subversive. Ambition is only understood if it's to rise to the top of some imaginary ladder" Calvin and Hobbes cartoonist, Bill Waterson


I don't know anyone who thinks that showing up early puts you above the rest. But it doesn't matter how well you work if you are often late or don't show up. My idea of an honest work day isn't gossiping, pretending to work, *** kissing, etc

I'm talking about the small things that matter a lot, at least in my opinion. Earning your wage, having respect, being punctual, and being honest and ethical. 

You don't agree with this?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

jcgd said:


> The little things should be standard across the board. Show up for work on time or early, *put in an honest work day*, be reliable, be honest. If you can add a little more effort you can stand above the rest.


+10, except that professionalism/a strong work ethic, and going beyond the basic and/or expected work requirements, are no 'little things', but extremely important & difficult to find these days.

Generally speaking unfortunately, mediocrity rules, because it's not only tolerated, but even rewarded at times.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> +10, except that *professionalism/a strong work ethic, and going beyond the basic and/or expected work requirements*, are no 'little things', but extremely important & difficult to find these days.


Speaking (generally), I've been wondering how people have the time to post on forums and social media 24/7 (the activity actually spikes at about 9am et!) Not that I really see a problem with it, as I'm sure people can still be productive and log in between... Although in theory they could be doing or thinking about something else, so is that really an honest work day? I suppose so long as you show up early and stay late. We leave our personal phones at the door and only work related websites are accessible, so it's kind of baffling is all.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> Speaking (generally), I've been wondering how people have the time to post on forums and social media 24/7 (the activity actually spikes at about 9am et!) Not that I really see a problem with it, as I'm sure people can still be productive and log in between... Although in theory they could be doing or thinking about something else, so is that really an honest work day? I suppose so long as you show up early and stay late. We leave our personal phones at the door and only work related websites are accessible, so it's kind of baffling is all.


Shift work perhaps. It is difficult to find a "straight day" job anymore.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Freelance/independent work,non physical building as the ''office" and or managing/overseeing work from home/office ect(without supervision) with 24 hr access to internet?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A trade is a very valuable skill for someone to have, but a lot of trade work is involved in construction, which has slowed down recently.

Stalled and delayed projects in Vancouver and Toronto are examples.

I remember only a few years ago, when the government was encouraging people to become a nurse. Then hospital budgets were slashed and nurses were laid off.

The local school board has told graduating teachers...........they won't be hiring for at least 20 years.

A trade yes..........but pick wisely. 

Shoe cobblers, tool and die makers, small appliance repair...........aren't in much demand these days.

The mother of our grandson just completed college. There are no jobs in her field and she is going to university next year for something else.

She is having a difficult time deciding what program to take...........that will actually lead to a good opportunity for a job.


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## Pvo (Jul 4, 2013)

How to get ahead? Get a second job if you have the time/energy.

You can only save so much when you aren't making loads of money.

Since I was first able to work I've always had more than one job. I still do even though my day job pays 70k+. Right now I do some consulting on the side as well as build tables with my husband. We also did auto detailing for a few years and still do for a few clients.

As a result I was able to buy my first house at 23 (bought with my boyfriend, now husband so that made it easier of course), and bought a second home at 24. We now have a rental property (kept the first house) and still work our butts off doing side projects/jobs wherever we can. I'll cut back when I have kids, but until then I enjoy working and the fact that some of the work I do is with my husband makes it more fun than it is work!

You should also start doing your research on real estate. You have lots of time to prepare yourself and get familiar with what you want. Heck, even check out a few open houses so when the time comes you know what to look for and what you like. Figure out what neighbourhoods you like, type of houses, etc. Learn about mortgages, house expenses, and all that fun stuff. 

Good luck!


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## Janus (Oct 23, 2013)

I think the answer to getting ahead is to be career oriented and put yourself towards a path that will yield results. Whether it's something educationally-focused (like finance) or something that requires use of your hands like a trade, there are a bunch of areas in which you can make good coin. It just depends what you're into and what you're qualified (or can become qualified) to do. 

Frugality is important, but as a young person I think it's important to strive for a situation in which it's not absolutely necessary, if you catch my drift. 

But in general the people here have it right... work hard and be honest. Just make sure you're in an area where those traits will be rewarded.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

froufrou said:


> How can young people get ahead by delaying big purchases? Isn't a house wealth building? Also, given the astronomical prices of housing these days, how do people save up for downpayment?


I think the answers to getting ahead have been provided in all the different responses.

Complaining doesn't help as far as I know.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

froufrou said:


> How can young people get ahead by delaying big purchases? Isn't a house wealth building? Also, given the astronomical prices of housing these days, how do people save up for downpayment?


Well, my husband was a renter - in one-bedroom basement or bachelor apartments - until he was 38 years old. Then he met ME! and we got married and bought a house. And guess what? He had a very large downpayment saved up. 

Buying a house CAN be a wealth-building strategy...so can buying gold bricks. Are you worried about whether you are saving up enough to buy gold bricks?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

m3s said:


> I've been wondering how people have the time to post on forums and social media



m3 have u seen this:

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTX14RO5#a=1

the bobsleigh run plus most of the Reuters photo gallery were all over the front page of the toronto Star a couple days ago ... wondering if Reuters stole the idea ...


ps u can see how useful social media are. If Reuters dunnit - if they actually stole the idea rather than vice versa - what else but social media could flash the word so quickly


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I agree social media is useful! Professionalism to most people is about optics though, as many would perceive being on social media or forums at work as unprofessional, no? I'm sure everyone did just a few years ago. I think it was brad who mentioned a few times about a job with flexible hours and its many benefits for productivity etc. Also Reuters totally ripped off my pictures.

How do you get ahead? You either put on an act to move up the crowded ladder, or you risk going your own way which I suppose could get you ahead or behind. A cartoonist’s advice


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

you're not going to complain to reuters? if you think they ripped you off, it could be a case of copyright infringement (did u copyright your pix, right?)

when i saw the bobsleigh run on the front page of the Star i thought oh good, mode has begun selling his pix to Big Media at last. Then my eye fell on the credit. Dado Ruvic? *Dado Ruvic?? What's. That. Dado. Ruvic. Doing. Here???*

they're not the exact same pix. The weather is different, the vegetation is slightly browner, a few more leaves have fallen. It looks like he followed after you by several days. But they stole your idea lock, stock & barrel.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

m3s said:


> Also Reuters totally ripped off my pictures.


Ask them for compensation. You don't have to copyright anything, it's automatic.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> Ask them for compensation. You don't have to copyright anything, it's automatic.


Reuters will deny it. They'll deny it longer & more fiercely than the bloody 4-year siege of Sarajevo.

the news service has a century of experience plus armies of attorneys on the payroll all over europe. They'll argue that the olympic venues are public places. Anyone can take pictures. They'll argue that photographers in public places - amateur & professional alike - often pick the same subjects, stand in the same vantage spots, because those are the most photogenic subjects & angles.

then they'll argue that their project had been in the planning stage for 6 months


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> Reuters will deny it.


You're probably right. I thought they used M3S's actual pics. If someone else took those picks from the same places, then not much chance of any $$ changing hands.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> when i saw the bobsleigh run on the front page of the Star i thought oh good, mode has begun selling his pix to Big Media at last.


I see all the Big Media are using the exact same pictures.. I googled Sarajevo for months and never saw anything that similar out there.. Just a coincidence though really. I actually turned down an interview request from CBC Radio last week. It never dawned on me the Olympics would be a hot topic right now.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

benh, which is it?

this?



m3s said:


> Just a coincidence though really


or this?



m3s said:


> Reuters totally ripped off my pictures


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