# You People



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

When someone uses the words, 'you people', do you really need to hear any more than that to know what kind of person is talking?

Don Cherry referred to 'you people' and said they don't buy poppies. He also said they want 'our' way of life. Who is 'our' and who is then not part of 'our'?

https://globalnews.ca/news/6151647/don-cherry-immigrants-poppies/

In my opinion, Don Cherry should be fired for offending ALL Canadians including veterans. Canadians are NOT about 'you people' and 'our', Canadians are about WE. At least I hope that is the majority view.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Good for Don Cherry. Conflicting values to Canadian values the immigrants bring over does not work. Political correct lying & saying conflicting values & traditions can all get along does not work. When immigrants make their own laws & do not respect our laws.

Though the Muslims & their Sharia law perhaps has one good thing. Killing off the drug addicts & alcoholics which would cut down on crime.I do not like that women would be treated like crap & would have to fake being Muslim to stay alive. On second thought I would rather have the 10% drug addicts of the population alive then live under Sharia law.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

My concept of Canadian values would drive conservatives to hysterics.

The right to vote, freedom of assembly (unions), the right to strike, the right to affordable housing, education and healthcare. 

The right to not live in poverty, the right to fair justice. The right to fair pay and a safe workplace. Those are the kinds of values I think veterans fought for.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Now days freedom is confused with rights. The right for free handouts as long as someone else pays for it I do not think was their goal. In the old war movies it seams the word free & freedom was used a lot never heard of any talk about having rights that others had to pay for. Though with freedom to work to achieve goals they did not have a problem with.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I was waiting for someone to post this....
....didn't offend me....and from a lot of the comments i'm seeing online in a lot of the news articles, apparently didn't offend a lot of others...but the day is coming, in this milquetoast country, when you'll not be allowed to express any opinion, on any subject, with any kind of a whiff of possible non political correctness...
Don often says (not necessarily in ths case) , what A LOT of us average joes are thinking...
and "Get off my lawn!!"

p.s. it'll be interesting to get his reaction to Ron ( jellyfish) MacLean's soppy 'apology'...


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

So you don't have a problem with someone who refers to 'you people' then lonewolf. You think that is perfectly acceptable. You don't recognize it as a xenophobic term.

You speak of the conflicting values of immigrants. OK, here are mine. I came to Canada as an immigrant from the UK at age 7. My Father served with the Royal Air Force in WW2. He was in N. Africa, Greece and Italy. After he came home from the war, he and my Mother decided to emigrate to Canada. When he left the UK, he left his medals behind and when he was asked by a fellow worker in Canada, to come and join the Legion he politely declined that invitation. 

He never really spoke about his time in the war but I do recall a few things he let slip from time to time. I recall him once referring to the Legion as being primarily 'cooks and clerks'. I think that thought just slipped out as some others sometimes did. He told me that the last thing anyone who was 'in' the war wanted was to remember it. That was his viewpoint. I guess that was because he was an 'immigrant bringing his conflicting values to Canada' right? I don't recall him ever wearing a poppy and I know he never attended any kind of Memorial Day Service. I wear a poppy to honour my Father's service but I don't have the memories he did do I. 

For Don Cherry or you or anyone else to refer to my Father as 'you people' and try to tell my Father or anyone else how they should act in terms of wearing a poppy or not is despicable. Whatever the reason why someone would choose not to wear a poppy is that person's reason. It is NOT an insult to Canadian veterans unless that is the actual reason for not wearing one, an intention to insult them. My Father did not intend to insult other veterans by not wearing a poppy, he just did not want to have anything to do with remembering the war. 

To be frank, I am sure there as plenty of Canadians who wear a poppy simply because it is the 'done' thing and have no personal thoughts whatsoever about veterans and their sacrifices, they're too busy living their ME lives.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> I was waiting for someone to post this....
> ....didn't offend me....and from a lot of the comments i'm seeing online in a lot of the news articles, apparently didn't offend a lot of others...but the day is coming, in this milquetoast country, when you'll not be allowed to express any opinion, on any subject, with any kind of a whiff of possible non political correctness...
> Don often says (not necessarily in ths case) , what A LOT of us average joes are thinking...
> and "Get off my lawn!!"
> ...


Jargey3000, it is not a question of whether it offended you, it is a question of being offensive to immigrants. Or do you only ever consider what offends YOU personally as being important? 

As for public reaction, you must be reading what you want to read. Far more were offended than not offended. The Canadian Broadcast Standards Council (CBSC) has taken so many complaints they have had to ask the public not to send any more, they cannot handle the volume. And a Google for 'Don Cherry news' will get you far more hits condemning his comments than saying they were not offensive.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwiK1sKTxeLlAhWEq1kKHSHgCV0Q4dUDCAs&uact=5


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> So you don't have a problem with someone who refers to 'you people' then lonewolf. You think that is perfectly acceptable. You don't recognize it as a xenophobic term.
> 
> You speak of the conflicting values of immigrants. OK, here are mine. I came to Canada as an immigrant from the UK at age 7. My Father served with the Royal Air Force in WW2. He was in N. Africa, Greece and Italy. After he came home from the war, he and my Mother decided to emigrate to Canada. When he left the UK, he left his medals behind and when he was asked by a fellow worker in Canada, to come and join the Legion he politely declined that invitation.
> 
> ...


 ... +1


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

lonewolf :) said:


> Now days freedom is confused with rights. The right for free handouts as long as someone else pays for it I do not think was their goal. In the old war movies it seams the word free & freedom was used a lot never heard of any talk about having rights that others had to pay for. Though with freedom to work to achieve goals they did not have a problem with.


There is some truth in that lonewolf. My Father fought for 'freedom' and that included the freedom to chose to wear a poppy or not. Hitler would have shot people for not wearing one if it was his idea no doubt. It seems some still think people should not be 'free' to choose.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Jargey3000, it is not a question of whether it offended you, it is a question of being offensive to immigrants. Or do you only ever consider what offends YOU personally as being important?
> url]


sorry, I was only giving my opinion on your opinion, that grapes "should be fired for offending all Canadians".
As a Canadian, I wasn't offended. And, in my opinion, he still has the slimmest of a right to express his own opinions.
Or, is that not allowed? Is it only your opinion that counts?
I'm sure you concur.....


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

Longtimeago said:


> To be frank, I am sure there as plenty of Canadians who wear a poppy simply because it is the 'done' thing and have no personal thoughts whatsoever about veterans and their sacrifices, they're too busy living their ME lives.


In late June 2018 I spent some time travelling through Normandy, France. Our group toured the D-Day beaches , Canadian and American Cemeteries, and Canada’s Juno Beach Center located at Courseulles-Sur-Mer. Juno Beach Center Museum is dedicated to Canadian soldiers who landed in Normandy in 1944. 

After spending more than 2 ½ hours learning first hand of the Canadian war effort, complete with in-depth articles on the people and events that make up Canada’s contribution in the Second World War, I left the Juno Beach Center with the impression Canadians took the bullets so the Americans and Brits could take the ridge. 

I wish I had taken a photo of a cartoon that appeared to depict the role the Canadian Military brass were given in actual decision making.


Today I attended our town’s Remembrance Day Ceremony, wore my poppy proudly and thought about all those innocent young boys that were led to slaughter!!!


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> My concept of Canadian values would drive conservatives to hysterics.
> 
> The right to vote, freedom of assembly (unions), the right to strike, the right to affordable housing, education and healthcare.
> 
> The right to not live in poverty, the right to fair justice. The right to fair pay and a safe workplace. Those are the kinds of values I think veterans fought for.


I agree with most of the above except that affordable housing isn't a "right", and no one in Canada lives in true poverty. Also, you are slandering all Conservatives by assuming they are against basic rights. 

You left out one of our most important rights...free speech. The right of free speech is in jeopardy today because far too many on the left are against it. Hate speech laws created by the left are designed specifically to silence opposing viewpoints. Sure...they start out by taking down someone on the far right that no one agrees with (like Alex Jones), but that's just a foot in the door to the real goal of silencing all opposing viewpoints.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Longtimeago said:


> So you don't have a problem with someone who refers to 'you people' then lonewolf. You think that is perfectly acceptable. You don't recognize it as a xenophobic term.
> 
> You speak of the conflicting values of immigrants. OK, here are mine. I came to Canada as an immigrant from the UK at age 7. My Father served with the Royal Air Force in WW2. He was in N. Africa, Greece and Italy. After he came home from the war, he and my Mother decided to emigrate to Canada. When he left the UK, he left his medals behind and when he was asked by a fellow worker in Canada, to come and join the Legion he politely declined that invitation.
> 
> ...


Your father is a hero.

One could appreciate sacrifice and patriotism in more than one way.

Don Cherry, well, is a big-mouth-no-brain kind of creature. Think of worms eating through a rotten cherry. He should be ignored liked chickenpoop.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

nortel'd said:


> I left the Juno Beach Center with the impression Canadians took the bullets so the Americans and Brits could take the ridge.


There seems to be a popular consensus that somehow Canadians were used as fodder in place of other allies. Is there any truth to this? I would like to think that every soldier's life mattered equally.

I grew up in the US education system, and it seemed that a lot of Americans casualties in these battles as well. For Normandy alone, I think it was about 6600 US dead,injured or captured, the Canadians about 1000, Brits 2500. 

My dad landed on Normandy at D Day +2 weeks to support Patton's armored divisions, and rolled through France, Belgium and into Germany. He never talked about it at all. I found out that his unit was one of the last to retreat from the Battle of the Bulge; I would have loved to hear that story. I only found the photos of his war experience after he had died. I look at all the young faces of the soldiers, cold and dirty, and wonder how they managed to keep pushing on, month after month. 

As for Don Cherry... The poppy is a British Commonwealth thing, I don't recall anything about it in US school, or people wearing them in the 50's or 60's. Perhaps today, it is better know what it symbolizes, but doesn't mean that everyone is aware. Not wearing a poppy isn't an overt act of disrespect - many times I've noticed that I wasn't wearing one b/c it was on another jacket, or on the floor of the car knocked off by the seat belt strap. I think Don Cherry is just being an *******; but that's his schtick, isn't it?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Don should have long ago been put out to pasture. He is stuck in the '60s.


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

Userkare said:


> I grew up in the US education system, and it seemed that a lot of Americans casualties in these battles as well. For Normandy alone, I think it was about 6600 US dead,injured or captured, the Canadians about 1000, Brits 2500.


Sorry Userkare for my callous comment but it was one of the overall feelings I left with. It has something to do with how Canadian soldiers were deployed throughout the whole war not just D-Day. 

I also spent another 2 ½ hours touring The Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial, a World War II cemetery and memorial in Colleville-sur-Mer, Normandy, France, that honors American troops who died in Europe during World War II. …… I left there fully aware that our Americans neighbours definitely helped win that war!!

D-day was a collaboration of all the allies.

“_Total Allied casualties on D-Day reached more than 10,000, including 1,074 Canadian casualties, of which 359 Canadians were killed in action. Hundreds of Germans were also killed and captured, and French civilians also died as bullets and bombs rained around their seaside villages._” Canadian Encyclopedia

“_But none of the landings were as severe as on Omaha Beach, where US forces were cut down as they struggled first to cross the wide sands and then scale high bluffs overlooking the beach. More than 2,000 Americans were killed or wounded before Omaha was finally secured, the surf turning red with the blood of the dead and dying.”_ Canadian Encyclopedia

Don Cherry should be fired.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

nortel'd said:


> It has something to do with how Canadian soldiers were deployed throughout the whole war not just D-Day.


I once met a German fellow who had been in WWII, on the German side. He said that he had a lot of respect for Canadian soldiers because they fought bravely, on equal terms. He said that the American planes would bomb, then their artillery would rain down, and when there was nobody left to resist, the American soldiers would come in and mop up. I don't know if there's any truth to that, or maybe just one person's experience.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

My grandfather signed up for WWI. He was 15 and was shipped overseas at the age of 16. He fought through the completion of the war.

I did some research and WWI was a specifically brutal war. It was basically hand to hand trench fighting. Over the top.....get gunned down, back to the trench to try again.

I met a guy at my first job who was a captured German Army soldier.......named Fritz (or maybe he adopted that name). He was returned to Canada to a prisoner of war camp.

He said they were treated very well and passed their time coming up with new inventions. He liked Canada so much he went home and brought his family back.

Every Canadian child should know the poem In Flanders Field by heart. They should also read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich to learn the history.

Anyone wanting to know more about WWII should watch the series Band of Brothers on HBO or rental/purchase. It follows Easy Company Airborne unit from just before D-Day to the end.

They dropped behind enemy lines before the D-Day invasion and went from town to town opening up the way for the Allied tanks and troops to follow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_of_Brothers_(miniseries)


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Userkare said:


> I once met a German fellow who had been in WWII, on the German side. He said that he had a lot of respect for Canadian soldiers because they fought bravely, on equal terms. He said that the American planes would bomb, then their artillery would rain down, and when there was nobody left to resist, the American soldiers would come in and mop up. I don't know if there's any truth to that, or maybe just one person's experience.


The German guy preferred Canadians because we gave him someone to shoot at. 

I am not sure who we are applauding here, but I know I would say that the American methods would be the one that makes the most military sense...if you ask me anyway.

Anyway, on the topic of poppies and what they represent. I agree we all should be thankful for the sacrifices and service that war veteran's have provided. The problem I have is that we tend to want to extend that thankfulness to all military people and endeavours. That's the part I don't agree with. 

Humans have been killing humans since homeoerectus came out of his cave, stood up on his two legs and said "I think I am going to bash that guys head in with a rock". We only have one natural predator…and that predator is us. For a species that thinks with its mind, to see us fall back on our natural instincts to kill, over and over again, literally drives me mad. I then ask myself, why we act like this. Why can we not simply stop killing each other? The answer is a long list of psycho analytical points, but one of them, appears to be the glorification of war accompanied by the esteem and possible heroship that the people that participate in that war, will garner. When children see these poppies, I worry that they might see it as the glorification of the actions of the people who fought in past wars. I am not sure that is the right message. It is certainly the right message for the veterans, but it does not send the correct message to any new entrants into military service.

Anyway, I don't have the correct answer, but I personal do not wear a poppy but maintain respect for those who do. Don Cherry's words were wrong but I do like the guy and even if he was also talking to me, I did not take any offense personally. He can think his way, and I can think my way and I see no reason why we cannot exist together, even if we don't agree with each other.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

WELL, THAT's it ........HE'S GONE!! FIRED!

"Beauty, eh?"


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

can't do it of course, but would be nice if we could go back to last week & do a study...
in 2 or 3 of our larger cities...
take a random sample of 1000 people or so...
ask a few simple questions ....to determine if subjects fall into a) new immigrant" category or b) not...
take a note of how many in each group was sporting a poppy....

cant be done of course.....too bad....the cold statistics might have been interesting....

Maybe his comments had some merit. Maybe not.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Userkare said:


> I once met a German fellow who had been in WWII, on the German side. He said that he had a lot of respect for Canadian soldiers because they fought bravely, on equal terms. He said that the American planes would bomb, then their artillery would rain down, and when there was nobody left to resist, the American soldiers would come in and mop up. I don't know if there's any truth to that, or maybe just one person's experience.


In fairness, in WWI, the Canadians pioneered the creeping barrage which meant artillery followed quickly by the attacking infantry. It would soften up the enemy and ensure that they wouldn't have the chance to regroup and prepare for the infantry assault. The precision required was quite impressive because any sort of mistiming and you would have casualties on the Canadian side.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I couldn't care less what Don says. This whole thing is a total non-story, but I'm somewhat thankful whenever a stupid story like this consumes the media. We could have wars or natural disasters in the headlines instead. This... is inconsequential.

Cherry is just another xenophobic old man. This is not rare or unusual in Canada.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

.....haha..I share your thoughts on the media coverage jim... i say the same thing at these times..


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Not to pick at old healed wounds, but didn't some folks in the Canadian Legion try to prevent a Sikh veteran from wearing a turban in the legion? European culture sees removing head wear as a sign of respect; his culture, the opposite.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

FWIW, both my spouse and I contribute substantially for poppies each year. The money, in some small way, supports our veterans and it is a show of respect for our soldiers.... perhaps more so for those who are still in harm's way or yet to go in harm's way.

And besides, makes it more tolerable for cadets to stand around with their boxes in front of grocery stores.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Userkare said:


> I once met a German fellow who had been in WWII, on the German side. He said that he had a lot of respect for Canadian soldiers because they fought bravely, on equal terms. He said that the American planes would bomb, then their artillery would rain down, and when there was nobody left to resist, the American soldiers would come in and mop up. I don't know if there's any truth to that, or maybe just one person's experience.


You touch on a relevant principle here that, getting back to don Cherry's comment, is the problem. Generalizing from one person's experience. That's what Cherry did, and you are wise to be aware over over generalizing.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> So you don't have a problem with someone who refers to 'you people' then lonewolf. You think that is perfectly acceptable. You don't recognize it as a xenophobic term.
> 
> You speak of the conflicting values of immigrants. OK, here are mine. I came to Canada as an immigrant from the UK at age 7. My Father served with the Royal Air Force in WW2. He was in N. Africa, Greece and Italy. After he came home from the war, he and my Mother decided to emigrate to Canada. When he left the UK, he left his medals behind and when he was asked by a fellow worker in Canada, to come and join the Legion he politely declined that invitation.
> 
> ...



Don Cherry is no wimp by not bowing to political correctness. He does have a point regarding immigrants showing no respect for those that help make our country free? What kind of person shows no respect for those that fought for our country yet come here for the free handouts?


The immigrants that came here years ago never came for the freehand outs as there were no free handouts. Now days there is a high number of migrants coming in from backwards countries that are a complete mess for the free handouts. There is a reason these countries are a complete mess & when they bring over their backwards ways here they are a complete drain on the country. Let Canadians be Canadian. Migrants that have no respect for our laws & way of life should stay home.

Europe has committed suicide by letting in mass migrants that have no respect for European rules & laws. They come for the free handouts History has shown not xenophopic when a high number of migrants invade a country it will eventually leads to civil war.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

lonewolf :) said:


> Don Cherry is no wimp by not bowing to political correctness. He does have a point regarding immigrants showing no respect for those that help make our country free? What kind of person shows no respect for those that fought for our country yet come here for the free handouts?
> 
> 
> The immigrants that came here years ago never came for the freehand outs as there were no free handouts. Now days there is a high number of migrants coming in from backwards countries that are a complete mess for the free handouts. There is a reason these countries are a complete mess & when they bring over their backwards ways here they are a complete drain on the country. Let Canadians be Canadian. Migrants that have no respect for our laws & way of life should stay home.
> ...


What exactly are those free handouts?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Hockey commentators in Canada are held to a higher standard than the Prime Minister.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## Fain87 (Jan 20, 2018)

The Poppy as a symbol & Remembrance Day will lose significance year after year increasingly. . . Can you expect Canadians to treat the World War 1 & World War 2 with the same amount of respect & reverence in the year 2030, 2050, 2100?

It'd be like a remembrance day for those lost to the bubonic plague or for the Genghis Khan masscres. Eventually over time, it will lose significance in peoples minds and fade away.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...didnt they have a 7-second delay on Grapes? because of his past inflammatory comments?
I think the guy at the switch is at fault here! .....prob. a liberal....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Remembrance Day could be maintained if it was expanded to include "remembering" Canadians lost to any kind of tragic events.....wars, disease, accidents, crimes, drugs....etc.

Otherwise I have to agree with Fain87. The day will eventually not be meaningful to future generations as the connection is lost over time.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

THIS JUST IN.....(from 2015)

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-don-cherry-for-the-order-of-canada


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Fain87 said:


> The Poppy as a symbol & Remembrance Day will lose significance year after year increasingly. . . Can you expect Canadians to treat the World War 1 & World War 2 with the same amount of respect & reverence in the year 2030, 2050, 2100?
> 
> It'd be like a remembrance day for those lost to the bubonic plague or for the Genghis Khan masscres. Eventually over time, it will lose significance in peoples minds and fade away.


....good point.... but, it won't matter.....we'll all be long gone by then.....climate change, don't you know......


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> ...didnt they have a 7-second delay on Grapes? because of his past inflammatory comments?
> I think the guy at the switch is at fault here! .....prob. a liberal....


They were perfectly fine with his comment at the time. That spot was shown 3 times during 3 different regional games as the periods ended at different times.

This is just another example of the PC culture shutting down opinions that they disagree with. I applaud Cherry for saying he wouldn't change what he said and I'm disappointed that Sportsnet caved.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....I wonder how MacLean will fare in all this......


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Userkare said:


> Not to pick at old healed wounds, but didn't some folks in the Canadian Legion try to prevent a Sikh veteran from wearing a turban in the legion? European culture sees removing head wear as a sign of respect; his culture, the opposite.


Canadian Legion has become an old boys club that has little to do with actual military veterans anymore or modern Canadian/Canadian military ethos. As the WWII veteran numbers declined they had to accept non-veteran affiliates to keep the clubs alive who later brushed off younger Afghanistan veterans (probably as a threat to their own lack of military credentials) Why we all buy poppies to support this non sense is beyond me


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

m3s said:


> Canadian Legion has become an old boys club that has little to do with actual military veterans anymore or modern Canadian/Canadian military ethos. As the WWII veteran numbers declined they had to accept non-veteran affiliates to keep the clubs alive who later brushed off younger Afghanistan veterans (probably as a threat to their own lack of military credentials) Why we all buy poppies to support this non sense is beyond me


I have often thought that 'veterans' should be thought of in two categories. Those that volunteered during wartime to go and fight for their country and those who did not. In peacetime, truth be told, many members of the armed forces are their simply for a job and a pay cheque. Peace time soldiers as they are called. There is little if any justification for the Legion to exist any more. I feel much the same way about the War Amps. While they may do some good works still, the original purpose no longer exists to any great degree but those at the top of these organizations have a vested interest in keeping them going.

I also agree that Remembrance Day will become less and less relevant to future generations as it no doubt is to current younger generations, no matter how much they parrot what their teachers tell them every year about the sacrifices their grandfathers and great grandfathers made on their behalf.

As for Don Cherry himself, his disappearing into obscurity is long overdue anyway. He's in his 80s and should have retired long ago. He doesn't need the money presumably, his only likely reason for continuing is that he likes being 'somebody'. You only have to look at how he dresses to see he is a narcissist screaming, 'look at me'. Besides, someone younger can use that job opening.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Fain87 said:


> The Poppy as a symbol & Remembrance Day will lose significance year after year increasingly. . . Can you expect Canadians to treat the World War 1 & World War 2 with the same amount of respect & reverence in the year 2030, 2050, 2100?


By then I'm sure there will be respect and reverence for WWIII and maybe IV by 2100


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

m3s said:


> Canadian Legion has become an old boys club that has little to do with actual military veterans anymore or modern Canadian/Canadian military ethos. As the WWII veteran numbers declined they had to accept non-veteran affiliates to keep the clubs alive who later brushed off younger Afghanistan veterans (probably as a threat to their own lack of military credentials) Why we all buy poppies to support this non sense is beyond me



m3 do you have a suggestion as to what canadians could actually do - i mean a broadly popular national gesture, coast to coast, every year on 11th november - that would support the forces directly?

nobody knows about this canadian legion stuff you've posted ^^ but i bet it's the truth. So what should canada do instead?

there's no doubt people want to do *something.* Every year my small city holds an Armistice Day ceremony at a cenotaph in front of city hall. The base of the big statue bears bronze plaques inscribed with the names of all those from the community who died in both WW I & WW II.

there are hundreds of names, although the tiny ville itself hardly ever had more than 10,000 residents. Everybody who grew up n the hood had several family members who had "been in the war." There are still locals here whose grandfathers, great-uncles, fathers & uncles (not sure if there are any women on the bronze list) are commemorated on the cenotaph.

in recent years that ceremony has grown bigger & bigger. Nowadays big crowds attend, families bring their children. Enlisted soldiers parade. The mayor, the federal MP, the quebec MNA all speak. The tone is always subdued, thoughtful, serious.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> m3 do you have a suggestion as to what canadians could actually do - i mean a broadly popular national gesture, coast to coast, every year on 11th november - that would support the forces directly?
> 
> nobody knows about this canadian legion stuff you've posted ^^ but i bet it's the truth. So what should canada do instead?
> 
> ...


As the son of someone who volunteered to go and fight for his country in WW2, I think I have the right to speak as someone with someone to honour. Much as I think war veterans who volunteered to go to war deserve respect and remembrance, I have to ask, if we are going to do something to honour them, why do we single them out? Why are you not asking what we could do once a year to honour fire fighters or police officers who have served their country and in many cases made the ultimate sacrifice? Are they not equally as deserving of being honoured? What about 'ordinary' citizens who put themselves in harms way?

A man I knew stopped on the highway to help when someone's car broke down. He was just being a Good Samaritan. Another vehicle plowed into him and killed him. Every once in a while I think about him. I consider him as deserving of being honoured in my thoughts as any war veteran is including my own Father. They both did what was right, they both deserve to be remembered by me.

As someone wrote earlier in this thread, why do we not have a day when we honour ANYONE who has done something at personal risk, for the greater good of all. Why not have a 'National Thanks' day for all of them instead of singling out any one group? 

The reality is, we have too many 'this day' and 'that day' every year and they all become somewhat meaningless as a result. Mother's Day is just when you have to send your Mother some flowers or take her to lunch. Never mind if you ignore her the rest of the year because you are too busy living your life. Father's Day is when you give him a tie or a pair of socks. Xmas?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> Canadian Legion has become an old boys club that has little to do with actual military veterans anymore or modern Canadian/Canadian military ethos. As the WWII veteran numbers declined they had to accept non-veteran affiliates to keep the clubs alive who later brushed off younger Afghanistan veterans (probably as a threat to their own lack of military credentials) Why we all buy poppies to support this non sense is beyond me


Very interesting, m3s. Thanks for sharing! I didn't know they brushed off the Afghanistan vets.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

The poppy is not primarily to support vets, although it does have that role partially. The poppy is a symbol. 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/47380/in-flanders-fields

And no, we should not abandon remembrance day because there will be wars and rumours of wars as long as their are people. There will be more dead. The poppy is a symbol of the dead. The poppies are the dead. "We are the dead". Read the poem. It isn't about remembering a specific war, it is about remembering and honouring the dead.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Very interesting, m3s. Thanks for sharing! I didn't know they brushed off the Afghanistan vets.


Our small town of 3000 has a Legion as most small towns probably do. How many actual veterans do you think support it? There can't be more than a couple of dozen around her to begin with from any period of time. 

They have bingo nights, meatloaf dinner nights, meat draw nights, karaoke nights, etc. etc. For what purpose? To raise money to pay the heating bill I guess and sure they give some money to various charities and good causes from time to time. But do we need a Legion in every little town for this? I don't think so. I do however think we need a place where those who cultivate an impressive beer belly can go and buy cheap beer. That's about all the Legion means to me and I know that the vast majority of those who frequent our local Legion have never had anything whatsoever to do with the armed forces in their lives.

I wouldn't call it an 'old boys club' necessarily, I'd just call it a beer drinkers club, all beer drinkers welcome.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> there's no doubt people want to do *something.* Every year my small city holds an Armistice Day ceremony at a cenotaph in front of city hall. The base of the big statue bears bronze plaques inscribed with the names of all those from the community who died in both WW I & WW II.
> 
> in recent years that ceremony has grown bigger & bigger. Nowadays big crowds attend, families bring their children. Enlisted soldiers parade. The mayor, the federal MP, the quebec MNA all speak. The tone is always subdued, thoughtful, serious.


This is great imo. 2018 was the 100 yr anniversary of armistice day so I feel these parades will get smaller. I've been to some parades that felt more like a corporate promotion when every company name is read to lay a wreath and others where there is a genuine reception afterwards for the community to mingle with veterans. It's becoming confusing though as there are very few WWII veterans remaining, more and more "stolen valour" taking advantage of this by filling their ranks, and now a younger generation of veteran struggling with where they fit in all this (from the 1 year drop out with veteran plates seeking free meals, to those permanently wounded by modern war who don't feel adequate to a term/day reserved for WWI/WWII)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Longtimeago said:


> Our small town of 3000 has a Legion as most small towns probably do. How many actual veterans do you think support it? There can't be more than a couple of dozen around her to begin with from any period of time.


And these are the guys that blocked the provincial highway more than once, creating an illegal "toll booth" on Ontario hwy 6 for their fundraising. At the time, I phoned and informed both a Legion office as well as the OPP.

It sure affected my impression of the Legion.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I might add remembering the guys who came back but their life is a living hell due to the trauma. They can't forget. They are miserable. The horror is seared on their brain.
Although biologically living, their lives fall apart. Canadians who were in Bosnia, Afghanistan and gawd know where else. Lots of them are the walking dead due to trauma. 

It is a mistake to think the poppy stands for a war. It is a symbol of the dead in our wars, not just one war.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

The people I knew who were veterans of WW1 and WW2 could care less about the legion. But they all wore poppies cause it isn't about the darn legion. You don't get rid of the poppy symbol just cause the legion lost its perspective. Get your poppy from an alternate source and forget the legion.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I know that the vast majority of those who frequent our local Legion have never had anything whatsoever to do with the armed forces in their lives.
> 
> I wouldn't call it an 'old boys club' necessarily, I'd just call it a beer drinkers club, all beer drinkers welcome.


They wear Legion uniforms and Legion medals that give a false impression to the general public as being military veterans. They speak on behalf of military veterans and they sell/control the sale of the poppies. They tend to have old boys club values and are generally known to be less tolerant of diversity, contrary to the actual modern day canadian military. This is all very deceptive, confusing and damaging imo.

"But by 2000, the civilian-dominated Legion was more concerned with beer, darts and photo ops with politicians. So perhaps veterans like myself should not have been surprised that the* Royal Canadian Legion supported the New Veterans Charter passed in 2005, which eliminated disability pensions for all Canadian Armed Forces members* and veterans newly injured after 2006."
source


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is sad to read how little many posters actually know about the legion and it's functions.

For decades, legions provided the hub for the social gatherings of the community. They raised money through alcohol and dinner sales to promote minor sports and local charities.

A primary responsibility of the legion was to provide help for veterans when dealing with government services, like pensions and healthcare. 

They also provide funeral services for veterans free of charge.

My grandfather received a legion funeral and family and friends deeply appreciated the volunteer corp who represented the legion.

Legions provided a "second home" for many veterans to associate with other veterans rather than sit home in isolation. They talked, played cards and watched hockey games together.

Today, legions are still a hub of activity. Many small town legions have closed, but in many of those rural towns the population has also declined......especially in the west.

Likely the legions that remain will disappear as the number of military veterans dwindle. That is not to say that Remembrance Day will be forgotten.

The people in Europe will never forget the sacrifice our soldiers made. The beaches ran red with the blood of young men.

Even today after all these years, the beach sand of Normandy contains a significant amount of metal from the D-Day landing. I think it is about 4% if I remember correctly.

There are also many items buried in the sand that are left there. It is illegal to remove anything and there are severe penalties for breaking the law.

We remember war for several reasons. To honor the veterans who served and to remind ourselves of the horrors of war.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If I recall correctly, it was members of the legion who publicly shamed and brought the program cuts by the Harper government into the public view.

If it weren't for the legion, there would be nobody talking about the needs of the veterans.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

m3s said:


> They wear Legion uniforms and Legion medals that give a false impression to the general public as being military veterans. They speak on behalf of military veterans and they sell/control the sale of the poppies. They tend to have old boys club values and are generally known to be less tolerant of diversity, contrary to the actual modern day canadian military. This is all very deceptive, confusing and damaging imo.
> 
> "But by 2000, the civilian-dominated Legion was more concerned with beer, darts and photo ops with politicians. So perhaps veterans like myself should not have been surprised that the* Royal Canadian Legion supported the New Veterans Charter passed in 2005, which eliminated disability pensions for all Canadian Armed Forces members* and veterans newly injured after 2006."
> source


yes, I heard about that and it is a disgrace. Completely baffled by that while politicians who survive 6 years or so get a lifetime pension. 
But don't make it about the poppy. Get your poppy from an alternate source.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The old disability pension was replaced by a new pension for life, which is a lot broader and contains more support programs.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/pension-for-life/q-and-a


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> The old disability pension was replaced by a new pension for life, which is a lot broader and contains more support programs.
> 
> https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/pension-for-life/q-and-a


Actual disabled veterans claim this is not even close to the pre-2006 disability pension. Sadly now this has created 3 different classes of canadian veterans.

Which begs the question why a civilian male drinking club is the only public voice of veterans today? Unlike the rcmp, canadian coast guard etc the canadian military do not have any public voice via an organized labour union. I believe this was one of the reasons for the original legion but it has slowly lost its way by snubbing younger vets while riding on their reputation

Union is a very dirty word.. but many modern developed military forces today already have a professional association of some sort
source


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There is a missing step in the progression of military pensions. The Harper government eliminated them totally and offered small buyouts instead.

Trudeau reinstated the pensions. Perhaps they need to be raised, but that is a complicated issue as the new scheme provides an array of benefits beyond pensions.

Personally the overall cost is so small that I don't even know why there is any hesitation or debate about it........just raise them to a level that satisfies the veterans.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> By then I'm sure there will be respect and reverence for WWIII and maybe IV by 2100


..l. o. l. ....


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Here's an interesting video posted to youtube a few weeks ago about the largest military parade in Canadian history for the 100th anniversary of armistice day. A popular (belarusian) video game that was involved/supported the parade posted about it on this year's Remembrance Day. This same game also has a map with a Canadian war memorial in the center surrounded by fields of poppies. This is a great example of acknowledging veterans and involving people of all ages/demographics in a unique way.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

^
Canada gets recognition from the least expected places, world of tanks, of all things. That's heartening.

I met a Canadian Bomber pilot who was shot down over Germany. He parachuted into the back yard of a German family and the man of the house was German infantry who was home wounded. The German hid the pilot and secured a way out back to England where the Canadian was giving another plane. he never saw that first crew again. has no idea what happened to them. With his second plane on a mission he was shot through the arm but it didn't hit the bone. Co-pilot was dead. When he landed every one else was dead from bullet wounds. This man suffered terribly during his life, partly from the trauma, and survivors guilt. 

but the main point is, a German infantry man risked his life and life of his wife and kids to help him escape. One can't legitimately generalize about people. Its not right to assume what they think. And that's Cherry's problem. He arbitrarily singled out immigrants even though there are probably many born and bred Canadians who could care less.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Cherry's comment on MacLean: "He buried me."


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

That's fine. MacLean has some career left. Cherry was stuck in the '60s and fading quickly. The world and hockey moved on decades ago.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> The people in Europe will never forget the sacrifice our soldiers made. The beaches ran red with the blood of young men.
> 
> Even today after all these years, the beach sand of Normandy contains a significant amount of metal from the D-Day landing. I think it is about 4% if I remember correctly ...
> 
> We remember war for several reasons. To honor the veterans who served and to remind ourselves of the horrors of war.




m3s is too modest to ever post this information; but he actually played a big role at the historic june 6, 2015 ceremonies marking the 70th anniversary of the Allied landing in normandie.

y'll remember that event? every president, prime minister, chancellor, leading politician, king, queen & princess attended that event. Hundreds of D-Day veterans, for the most part frail & aging, mustered up & attended. Because of the age of the veterans - in 2015 surviving veterans were in their 70s & 80s - it was believed that there would never again be a 5-year juno beach ceremony that would be so widely attended, so they really sent that one up.

stephen Harper attended. Barack Obama. Angela Merkel. Vladimir Putin. Francois Hollande. Prince Wlliam. Prince Charles. Kate & Camilla. I remember how angela merkel spent much of her time running around like a mother hen, trying to get barack o. to greet vladimir p. She did good. The 2 leaders passed near each other, looked each other mildly in the eye, did not glare at each other. Success!

a new canadian WW II history museum was inaugurated at that 2015 juno beach ceremony. On that day - it was a glorious sunny june day in northern france - CMF's own m3s served as an expert military guide. To m3s personally fell the honour of receiving & escorting stephen harper & his entourage around the new museum. Reportedly the prime minister & his party spent 15 minutes at the site.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> In my opinion, Don Cherry should be fired for offending ALL Canadians including veterans. Canadians are NOT about 'you people' and 'our', Canadians are about WE. At least I hope that is the majority view.


 You people that whine for the media has to promote your propaganda should leave Canada. DJI @ 27,000 it is all we when the DJI drops 90% it will be exclusion. Inclusion which is seen @ historic market tops has gone to the extreme. Anyone can walk across the boarder to come here & practice their backwards ways.

Those that control the propaganda the media promotes are really getting out of hand The fair doctrine act needs to be reinstated.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

lonewolf :) said:


> You people that whine for the media has to promote your propaganda should leave Canada. DJI @ 27,000 it is all we when the DJI drops 90% it will be exclusion. Inclusion which is seen @ historic market tops has gone to the extreme. Anyone can walk across the boarder to come here & practice their backwards ways.
> 
> Those that control the propaganda the media promotes are really getting out of hand The fair doctrine act needs to be reinstated.


But the DJI is an American index. How would that be relevant to exclusion/inclusion? Maybe the S&P/TSX is topping off?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ... a new canadian WW II history museum was inaugurated at that 2015 juno beach ceremony. On that day - it was a glorious sunny june day in northern france ... Reportedly the prime minister & his party spent 15 minutes at the site.


I remember being at the opening of the Juno Beach Centre at Courseulles-sur-Mer in June 2003, as part of a veterens tour. 

Has another Canadian WW II museum opened?
It doesn't seem to have much of a web presence.


Cheers


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Obviously, there are various issues being commented on in this thread. Don Cherry's comments; remembrance of veterans in general and the Legion as an entity. Don Cherry is now a done deal so he can be relegated to the past where he belongs. Remembrance of veterans is something in my opinion that should be done and I hope continue to be done by individuals in whatever way an individual wishes to do so. You don't have to go to church to be a Christian, you don't have to buy a poppy or go to a Remembrance Day Ceremony to honour veterans in your thoughts.

The Legion as an entity is perhaps something we could learn more about through discussion and research. I looked up their Financial Statements for example. It makes interesting reading. Take a look and assess it as you would any charity you were considering contributing to. Note their Revenue and Expenses and interpret them. https://legion.ca/docs/default-sour...of-revenue-and-expenses.pdf?sfvrsn=154651f1_6 How much of their $10 million in revenue do you see actually going to veterans? I see just over 1 million. The rest? I see that their employees have a nice defined benefit pension though. Not necessarily very much for a bartender being paid under minimum wage but I am sure the executives do quite well with their pensions.

Two thirds of Legion members (not employees) are not veterans. It is not required that you be a veteran to join the Legion, you just have to pay your $50 a year membership fee. Total membership is only around 300,000 but fees and donations (poppies) bring in more than enough to pay employees including executives. We should also not forget that many volunteers take on work for the Legion without being paid. Those Air Cadets standing outside your supermarket selling poppies don't get paid for example. Free labour. But the executives are not volunteers of course, they're well paid non-veterans. 

Then read this article. https://https//legion.ca/docs/defau... Legion is,exceeding 1,400 across the country.

Then read this article by two actual veterans. I found it particularly interesting to note that the Legion have their own uniforms and award their own medals. I didn't know that and I, like most I expect, thought when I saw someone dressed in a Legion uniform with medals on their chest, that it meant that person was in fact a veteran. Not so. Also note their take on how younger veterans are treated.

http://espritdecorps.ca/perspectives-1/calling-out-the-great-veteran-pretender


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...is the French Foreign Legion still on the go?....
now, THAT was a legion!! ...love the hats....and the shoulder tassels...leave it to the French
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TwM3oYi5ltQ


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....getting back to Grapes....now that he's gone, maybe we'll get that George Stompolompinus guy back...
'member him? in the peewee herman suits! and they all stood around, with hockey sticks ?good grief! cringe-worthy or what?
is Howie Meeker available! Golly!


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

Eclectic12 said:


> I remember being at the opening of the Juno Beach Centre at Courseulles-sur-Mer in June 2003, as part of a veterens tour.
> 
> Has another Canadian WW II museum opened?
> It doesn't seem to have much of a web presence.
> ...


 The Juno Beach Center 
has been open since you were there. New exhibits are added and it keeps getting better and better. 

_“On the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings in 2014, 359 tribute markers — one for every Canadian killed on D-Day — were installed on the grounds of the JBC. The markers are made of Canadian maple and include the names of each Canadian who died on D-Day, as well as his hometown and regiment.”_ Canadian Encyclopedia

When I was there in June 2018 I also picked up half a dozen sea shells and made fridge magnets with them when I got back home.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....I'm wondering if they should've held some hearings, for Grapes, before they impeached 'im....?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> *How much of their $10 million in revenue do you see actually going to veterans?* I see just over 1 million. The rest? I see that their employees have a nice defined benefit pension though. Not necessarily very much for a bartender being paid under minimum wage but I am sure the executives do quite well with their pensions.
> 
> Two thirds of Legion members (not employees) are not veterans. It is not required that you be a veteran to join the Legion, you just have to pay your $50 a year membership fee. Total membership is only around 300,000 but fees and donations (poppies) bring in more than enough to pay employees including executives. We should also not forget that many volunteers take on work for the Legion without being paid. Those Air Cadets standing outside your supermarket selling poppies don't get paid for example. Free labour. But the executives are not volunteers of course, they're well paid non-veterans.


They donate the money to many things besides veterans, while riding on their reputation and supporting the removal of their disability pensions.

When people buy poppies (controlled exclusively by the Royal Canadian Legion) they likely assumed they are supporting veterans.

When the Canadian public subsidize the Royal Canadian Legion through *tax-free status* they likely assume they are supporting veterans.

When a child air cadet volunteers to sell poppies, they likely assume they are sacrificing time from their childhood in support of veterans.

When the Queen designated the Canadian Legion the Royal Canadian Legion she probably assumed she was supporting veterans.

Not a social drinking club of mostly non-veterans that turn away non-member veterans and actively serving members.



Longtimeago said:


> Then read this article by two actual veterans. I found it particularly interesting to note that the Legion have their own uniforms and award their own medals. I didn't know that and I, like most I expect, thought when I saw someone dressed in a Legion uniform with medals on their chest, that it meant that person was in fact a veteran. Not so. Also note their take on how younger veterans are treated


There should be a CBC marketplace documentary on the Royal Canadian Legion, however that would be sacrilegious


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

jargey3000 said:


> ....getting back to Grapes....now that he's gone, maybe we'll get that George Stompolompinus guy back...
> 'member him? in the peewee herman suits! and they all stood around, with hockey sticks ?good grief! cringe-worthy or what?
> is Howie Meeker available! Golly!


My vote would be for Johnny Harris. Way more entertaining.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

_"hey google, who's johnny harris"_


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....ohhhhh...that guy! yeah, he's ok.....never watch his show tho'.....


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

So what did you think? I can't imagine no one heard Ron MacLean's talk last night. I suppose it probably depends on where you stand on the issue overall, but for me, I tend to stand where I approximately think Ron MacLean seems to stand on it. What Don Cherry said was wrong, but it seems a shame to trash a guys career and reputation, that has gone on as long as Coach's Corner has, for one comment, one night.

I keep telling my wife, when she gets mad at some family member of mine or friend of mine, that momentarily offended me or her. Where I stand on these types of issues, is that after 30 years or 40 years, I tend to think a person deserves and has probably earned a free pass. Obviously there are some things that would void a free pass, but not necessarily the ones you might think. This loyalty is a point of view I tend to have and it seems to be a lonely point of view, but it is the only one that makes sense to me. If I stopped relations with every family member, friend, wife or girlfriend that ever offended me, some time when they were drunk or not really thinking clearly, I would be a very lonely person today. It would negate all the times they had my back and supported me when I needed them, etc. It just doesn't make sense to me to do that. I tend to handle these issues in other ways. Thankfully I don't have social media in the way of doing what I think is the right thing to do.

Anyway, I thought his speech was pretty good. From the heart and well delivered.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Who cares about network television anymore? Don Cherry can go on youtube or any of the more popular streaming services and speak his mind now

The UK equivalent was the BBC firing Jeremy Clarkson and now he does the same thing on amazon originals instead.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I believe that Don Cherry has been well past his best before date for quite some time. 

It would not surprise me in the least if MacLean, Sportsnet, and Rogers have been waiting for an opportunity such as this to axe him. Long overdue IMHO. He has sounded like a loud mouthed lout to me for quite some time.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

^^^^ of course, he was all of that...but ya see, we gotta have some of these types around, so the rest of us can compare, and feel so smug & righteous , about our own words, actions and character...

If we get rid of all the don cherrys (cherries?) we'd be getting rid of most of our grampas (or grampa's, in today's lingo)

Don Cherry, to reporters last Friday: "YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN OR I'LL CALL THE COPS!"


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

ian said:


> I believe that Don Cherry has been well past his best before date for quite some time.
> 
> It would not surprise me in the least if MacLean, Sportsnet, and Rogers have been waiting for an opportunity such as this to axe him. Long overdue IMHO. He has sounded like a loud mouthed lout to me for quite some time.


There was speculation that was the case since summer, but the latest incident was enough of an excuse. When you consider what he has said before, this was comparatively mild. The other fact was that it was Sportsnet calling the shots and not CBC.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm guessing they'll bring in a woman...likely a woman of color....to replace Cherry....


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> So what did you think? I can't imagine no one heard Ron MacLean's talk last night. I suppose it probably depends on where you stand on the issue overall, but for me, I tend to stand where I approximately think Ron MacLean seems to stand on it. What Don Cherry said was wrong, but it seems a shame to trash a guys career and reputation, that has gone on as long as Coach's Corner has, for one comment, one night.
> 
> I keep telling my wife, when she gets mad at some family member of mine or friend of mine, that momentarily offended me or her. Where I stand on these types of issues, is that after 30 years or 40 years, I tend to think a person deserves and has probably earned a free pass. Obviously there are some things that would void a free pass, but not necessarily the ones you might think. This loyalty is a point of view I tend to have and it seems to be a lonely point of view, but it is the only one that makes sense to me. If I stopped relations with every family member, friend, wife or girlfriend that ever offended me, some time when they were drunk or not really thinking clearly, I would be a very lonely person today. It would negate all the times they had my back and supported me when I needed them, etc. It just doesn't make sense to me to do that. I tend to handle these issues in other ways. Thankfully I don't have social media in the way of doing what I think is the right thing to do.
> 
> Anyway, I thought his speech was pretty good. From the heart and well delivered.


But it was not one comment on one night OptsyEagle. It was just one MORE comment on one more night and part of a pattern of behaviour that has gone on for decades. He didn't suddenly turn into a racist, he has always been one and just got away with it because of good ratings which translates to profit which translates to 'we'll put up with him'. 
https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/don-cherry-s-history-of-controversial-comments-1.4680505

If you want to know who he appealed to, you don't have to look any farther than the guy who showed his support of Cherry by spray painting graffiti on the cenotaph. 
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...over-vandalism-at-old-city-hall-cenotaph.html


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

My guess is that the risk/reward chart changed for the network. Gradually the risk overtook the rewards. So they took the opportunity to punt him. 

Agree, it was a long time coming but really it was not much of a surprise to anyone who has viewed the show over time. It is over. It was simply a considered business decision by Sportsnet/Rogers. Nothing personal.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> If you want to know who he appealed to, you don't have to look any farther than the guy who showed his support of Cherry by spray painting graffiti on the cenotaph.
> https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...over-vandalism-at-old-city-hall-cenotaph.html


There are a lot of losers that support both sides politically. Cherry picking (pun intended) one of them proves nothing. Our own Prime Minister publicly praised Castro who used to murder his own citizens.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

FWIW...Although I wasnt overly impressed with MacLean's rambling monologue explaining his side of the story, I think he did a better job than Prince Andrew did, explaining his, in that interview...


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> My guess is that the risk/reward chart changed for the network. Gradually the risk overtook the rewards. So they took the opportunity to punt him.
> 
> Agree, it was a long time coming but really it was not much of a surprise to anyone who has viewed the show over time. It is over. It was simply a considered business decision by Sportsnet/Rogers. Nothing personal.


My personal guess ian is that Labatts changed the risk/reward balance for them. They were the sponsor and I think they said, 'he goes or we go.' I suspect this because the original response by Sportsnet/Rogers was, 'he was out of line we have had a talk with him'. Then the next day they changed that to, 'it's time for him to go'. Something happened in that 24 hour period that changed their response. 

All decisions are made by people, not companies. So Sportsnet people said, 'give him a slap on the wrist. Then someone else said, 'no get rid of him.' Where else could that other person have come from? Answer, the sponsor paying Sportsnet. It isn't likely someone else in Sportsnet came late to the party and change the decision, they had already decided on their response so I think it had to be an outside person who got them to change their decision.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> But it was not one comment on one night OptsyEagle. It was just one MORE comment on one more night and part of a pattern of behaviour that has gone on for decades. He didn't suddenly turn into a racist, he has always been one and just got away with it because of good ratings which translates to profit which translates to 'we'll put up with him'.
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/don-cherry-s-history-of-controversial-comments-1.4680505
> 
> If you want to know who he appealed to, you don't have to look any farther than the guy who showed his support of Cherry by spray painting graffiti on the cenotaph.
> https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...over-vandalism-at-old-city-hall-cenotaph.html


Well, people tuned into Cherry because he was the only one they could find that actually said what he thought. No censorship, no scripts, no interference by advertisers, networks or virtually anyone else. Very, very rare indeed. If a person finds that refreshing they also have to take the underside that goes with it. There are reasons for interference, but since everyone else's commentaries are completely interfered, to the point that they now have no personal or unique message, the benefits of that interference start to strip away.

That is all I am saying. If you want to see someone speak their mind, then you have to stifle your offense to that which was spoken. The viewer is just as capable of turning the channel as the network is to discontinue the show. I would rather see the network cancel the show AFTER the viewers have changed the channel. In other words, due to ratings as opposed to how loud the dissenters are to a particular message.


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