# 183 day rule



## reanimatorsk (Aug 11, 2020)

We are now retired and planning to leave Canada for better weather in Mexico every year. What would happen if we stay there for longer than 183 days (30 days longer)?
Thank you!


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

reanimatorsk said:


> We are now retired and planning to leave Canada for better weather every year. What would happen if we stay there for longer than 183 days (30 days longer)?
> Thank you!


here’s a little known rule regarding US taxes (if you’re headed to the US).

*How long can a Canadian stay in the U.S. without paying U.S. taxes?*

The Canadian and U.S. governments have plans to exchange information on when their citizens leave and enter the other country. Before the plan gets implemented, legislative and regulatory changes need to happen. (CBC)
The American Internal Revenue Service has a complicated way of determining this, and a form that may let snowbirds off the hook.
Complete the form and you can spend the full 182 days in the U.S. without paying U.S. income tax.
If you want to follow the formula, called the "substantial presence test," here is how to do the calculation.


The test determines whether you have been in the U.S. long enough to be considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes. The IRS determines this by using an unusual formula that calculates the total number of 'days' you have spent in the U.S. over a three-year span, and that number must add up to 183 or more.

They calculate the sum as follows:

Each day in the U.S. in the current calendar year counts as one day;
Each day in the U.S. in the prior year counts as one-third of a day;
Each day in the U.S. in the year before that counts as one-sixth of a day.
If the sum of those three numbers totals 183 or more, the IRS may insist you file a U.S. tax return.

When the IRS explains the test on their website, they give an example of someone staying 120 days each year for three years, which would total 180 (by adding 120; 120 divided by 3; plus 120 divided by 6) and mean they are not considered a resident.
Here's another example. If a snowbird spent 180 days in the U.S. in both 2014 and 2013, they should limit their U.S. time to 92 days in 2015 to avoid being classified as a U.S. resident by the IRS.

Whether they own or rent, Canadian snowbirds usually take steps to avoid being considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes, like filing an IRS form that establishes their closer connection to Canada. (Susagna Guardiola)
There are exemptions available for students, teachers and diplomats, and for someone who is unable to leave because they develop a medical condition while in the U.S., but for serious snowbirds, the best strategy for maintaining non-resident status is filing out that IRS form, the "Closer Connection Exception Statement for Aliens," better known to snowbirds as Form 8840.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

There are also provincial health insurance rules.

*How long can snowbirds be away from Canada and keep their provincial health insurance?*
B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Northwest Territories, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia require at least five months of residence in the province to continue health insurance coverage.

Quebec and Prince Edward Island require six months' residency, but Quebec does not count trips of less than 21 days as non-residency. Newfoundland and Labrador requires only four months. Nunavut and the Yukon have no residency requirements.

Some provinces will allow longer absences under some circumstances or if a written request made by the resident is approved.
To get provincial health benefits back after losing them usually requires living in the province for three months, at which point coverage begins again.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Since the OP was asking about Mexico, a non-working visitor from Canada can be in Mexico for 180 days per year without a visa. Visitors who do not require a visa, with a stay up to 180 days

I don't know about those who procure a visa. The overriding factor may be travel health insurance for the stay, and as noted in the previous post, maintaining one's Canadian health insurance.

Added: Some additional info here Entering/Exiting Mexico


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I think the mexico was added after the fact? Unless I’m losing it.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I have friends that stayed in Mexico much over 180 days including myself. If flying back to Canada you must return your tourist card with the date you arrived on it. I handed mine over after staying 7 1/2 months...no problem. I would carry a few get out of jail cards though (500 peso notes)

Since I retired 11 years ago I have not been in Canada longer than 5 months and Alberta longer than a month or two. Health care has never been interrupted. Should you be one of the none ever disqualified you can easily restat your health care & be covered in 3 month time.

When I left Mexico by boat I had been there for at least 9 months...the port captain was unconcerned and more interested in the 200 peso zarpe fee.

One friend had been in Mexico over 2 years...she went to the airport & said she lost her tourist card...I think the replacement fee was less than 100 pesos and she immediately used it to leave the country.

So in my experience Mexico (and Canada) are very laid back about being out and in the country...after all we spend lots of bucks in Mexico...good for their economy. And we're not using Albertan services while gone but still paying taxes...why would Canada want any snow bird back.

The USA is not really any different...not hard to stay longer than 6 months, just request a visa extension and file a closer association form to US revenue agency to avoid being taxed as a foreign resident.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The rules may be loose and rarely enforced but it doesn't take much to get into a bit of trouble and have to buy one's freedom, or worse, get thrown into detention while the 'fee plan' is being worked out. Best to know the rules in the first place and adhere to them if physically possible.

@Money - The original post shows it being edited and your quote of it does not include Mexico. So Mexico added later.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Ontario eliminated health coverage for all out of Canada travel.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ohip-change-1.5400012


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

In case the OP is an Ontario residence, here's the OHIP rules...

*"Away for more than seven months*
If you plan to be outside Canada for more than seven months in any 12-month period you can keep your OHIP coverage for *up to two years* if you:

have a *valid health card*
make *Ontario your primary home*
will be in Ontario for at least *153 days a year* in *each of the two years immediately before* you leave the country
*Before you leave,* take the following items to the nearest ServiceOntario centre to make sure your OHIP coverage stays active:

your health card
proof of residency (e.g. mortgage, lease or rental agreement, property tax bill, valid driver’s licence)".


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> The rules may be loose and rarely enforced but it doesn't take much to get into a bit of trouble and have to buy one's freedom, or worse, get thrown into detention while the 'fee plan' is being worked out. Best to know the rules in the first place and adhere to them if physically possible.
> 
> @Money - The original post shows it being edited and your quote of it does not include Mexico. So Mexico added later.


Thanks. See that now.


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

Eder said:


> I have friends that stayed in Mexico much over 180 days including myself. If flying back to Canada you must return your tourist card with the date you arrived on it. I handed mine over after staying 7 1/2 months...no problem. I would carry a few get out of jail cards though (500 peso notes)
> 
> Since I retired 11 years ago I have not been in Canada longer than 5 months and Alberta longer than a month or two. Health care has never been interrupted. Should you be one of the none ever disqualified you can easily restat your health care & be covered in 3 month time.
> 
> ...


You are not eligible to file a IRS 8840 - Closer Connection Form if you have been in the USA for more than 183 days in the year. (Source: 2019 Instructions for completing the 8840) Which I have filed for the past 12 years.


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> There are also provincial health insurance rules.
> 
> *How long can snowbirds be away from Canada and keep their provincial health insurance?*
> B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Northwest Territories, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia require at least five months of residence in the province to continue health insurance coverage.
> ...


For BC medical it is 6 months but if you want an additional month you must contact them.


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

Retiredguy said:


> You are not eligible to file a IRS 8840 - Closer Connection Form if you have been in the USA for more than 183 days in the year. (Source: 2019 Instructions for completing the 8840) Which I have filed for the past 12 years.
> 
> Also when I went to renew my 5 yr BC Drivers License in 2019 I was sent for residency review. In BC your DL is connected to BC Medical and cross referenced. Without going into the whole lengthy story, I ended up speaking directly with a RCMP member who is head of the ICBC unit specifically created to check residency. (The Insurance Corporation also controls drivers licensing in BC) She told me that 40% of the nearly 6000 files they had investigated, fraudulent representation of residency had been made. Of course I support their mission. I play by the rules so just caught up in the beauracy and was subsequently issued my 5 yr license, but pending the review they will only issue you a 2 month renewal and they're more than five months behind in their investigations.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

reanimatorsk said:


> We are now retired and planning to leave Canada for better weather in Mexico every year. What would happen if we stay there for longer than 183 days (30 days longer)?
> Thank you!


Reanimatorsk, some people will tell you that you can 'flout the rules' regarding immigration rules of a given country as as Mexico in your case and also flout the rules regarding health coverage in your Province of residence here in Canada. 
But I will suggest this to you, not ONE of them will put their money where their mouth is and GUARANTEE you that YOU will not run afoul of the rules and that if you do, THEY WILL PAY for any costs you incur by doing so.

Let me give you an example to consider that anecdotally shows the opposite of 'you can get away with it' and what can happen. When I was living in Greece, I knew a Canadian woman who flouted the rule of only being able to stay 90 days as a tourist. She was living in Greece for at least 3-4 years that I know of and only making a once a year visit to Canada. Greek immigration never questioned her on her returns and never questioned the dates on her passport on her exits from Greece even though she was clearly 'flouting the rules'. They were as one poster has written, 'pretty laid back' about it all apparently.

Then one day, she was involved in a traffic accident. She wasn't even at fault. When the police got involved, they discovered her 'overstay' status and gave her 24 hours to leave the country and she was blacklisted with Greek Immigration for 7 years.

Having lived there for several years, she had accumulated belongings beyond just what would fit in a suitcase. Those belongings included a car, furniture,etc. She had no time to dispose of those and so she lost them all.

Your question was basically, what will happen if we overstay and the only real answer is 'who knows?' Maybe nothing, maybe something you will not be happy about.

Flouting the rules is fine right up until they no longer are and any suggestion that you could do so, doesn't do you much good when that happens. So I suggest you stick to what Mexico allows you in terms of length of stay and also bear in mind what your provincial medical coverage requires for you to remain covered when in Canada.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Retirees can be out of the country for 212 days where the last month only gets added if you are not working. (ON.BC)
_Mexico has a standard visitor visa that is 180 days. If overstayed, it can be extended for US$50. Otherwise you can apply for a resident visa that is unlimited.

If you are going to be away for more than 212 days, your province will grant you a 24 month absence. However you cannot get travel insurance to cover that. The insurer wiil give you 212 total days away.

We just went through this. Because of Covid, the insurer gave us paid coverage from November 18th to June 30th. However they did NOT provide Covid coverage. _


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm not giving travel advice in my previous post, only what myself and others are doing.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Did Ontario cancel their plan to eliminate out of Canada coverage ?

I believe OHIP only covers dialysis treatment now.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ohip-out-of-country-insurance-scraped-1.5411253


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

sags said:


> Did Ontario cancel their plan to eliminate out of Canada coverage ?
> 
> I believe OHIP only covers dialysis treatment now.
> 
> ...


I don't think this is what he's asking about. You are right that they eliminated out of country insurance, though. But if you are out of Ontario for more than 7 months in a year without prior approval, you lose your OHIP _in Ontario_. Upon return you must wait for the 3 month waiting period before it is reinstated. (assuming you get caught)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I see........thanks for that information.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

It always annoys me when someone joins a forum, posts once to ask a question and then never returns, not even to acknowledge the responses they got and say THANK YOU.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I think these are trolls hired by the hosting company to stimulate discussion among the members. I think they should institute a rule of deleting posts if the posters does not return to post after one day. Because they don't I remain suspicious.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Eder said:


> I have friends that stayed in Mexico much over 180 days including myself.
> ...


Hey Eder,

Is that you featured in this BC family law case?:





__





2020 BCSC 1198 De Araujo v. Monteiro






www.bccourts.ca





Occurred to me it could be you. The protagonists are originally from Portugal, like the footballer "Eder" (as distinguished from the German River of that name). They winter, inter alia, in Mexico on a sailboat.

If you are the respondent, it seems you have done well, with over $10 million in investments and a sailboat worth USD550,000 and your places in Mexico and Portugal. 

Just don't let that claimant take too much of it. You should be okay, represented by Georgialee Lang as counsel. She's a good choice.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

deleted


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

kcowan said:


> I think these are trolls hired by the hosting company to stimulate discussion among the members. I think they should institute a rule of deleting posts if the posters does not return to post after one day. Because they don't I remain suspicious.


Agreed. There have been a plethora of one post wonders, that resurrect 2,3,4 year old posts.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> Hey Eder,
> 
> Is that you featured in this BC family law case?:
> 
> ...


Not me (my wife still infatuated with me) but am impressed that you recognize quality soccer lol.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> I think these are trolls hired by the hosting company to stimulate discussion among the members. I think they should institute a rule of deleting posts if the posters does not return to post after one day. Because they don't I remain suspicious.


I think that suggestion is a real stretch. No, I think people have a question they want to ask and look for somewhere to ask it. But they think they it is perfectly fine to ask a question and then not participate in any way beyond that. It's a selfish view of what a forum is that's all.

As for deleting after one day, that would be extreme. I'm fine with them not coming back for a week. Presumably they have a life to live and may not have time to check in daily.

It's also naive to suggest they be deleted when that would reduce the number of supposed 'active members' a forum has and that number is what gets them paid advertising. Don't forget what business this and every other forum is in, selling advertising.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

"But they think they it is perfectly fine to ask a question and then not participate in any way beyond that. " OK LTA so you will diligently answer the question and have debates even though the original poster is gone? Must be fun to have nothing better to do with your time!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> "But they think they it is perfectly fine to ask a question and then not participate in any way beyond that. " OK LTA so you will diligently answer the question and have debates even though the original poster is gone? Must be fun to have nothing better to do with your time!


No, I didn't say I think that is fine. I said that is what people often do in forums. Post a question, read the answers and never bother to even post a thank you.

As for it perhaps leading to a discussion/debate with other forum participants, that is part of what a forum is about. When an OP posts a question, it is not then that OP's exclusive domain. Others who are interested in the subject may want to read responses and participate in the thread. It's a FORUM, not an exclusive question and answer platform for an individual.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes the people are too self-centered to bother responding (or they are bots hired by forum management). I prefer the latter explanantion.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> Yes the people are too self-centered to bother responding (or they are bots hired by forum management). I prefer the latter explanantion.


I think you are listening to conspiracy theorists too much. I have posted in numerous forums of varying kinds. They all have the same issue with one time posters who never return.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I fully expect that all forums are the targets of bots.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Those still considering 'snow birding' this winter might do well to pay attention to what the airlines and public health officials are quietly NOT telling you.









More planes land in Canada with COVID-19-infected passengers. Here's where the flights came from


Nearly two dozen more flights have landed at major airports in Canada with passengers infected with COVID-19.



toronto.ctvnews.ca





Going to an airport and getting on a plane for non-essential travel is not a good idea.


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