# Amazon buys Whole Foods



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I notice that all my Consumer Staple stocks are down today after the announcement that Amazon is buying Whole Foods Market Inc. 

They say that it's a "_move that gives the online retailer a physical network of stores to distribute fresh food and other goods to millennials and wealthy consumers._

I buy a fair bit of stuff from Amazon.ca. Their prices always seem to be quite good for what I'm buying. No doubt their suppliers offer Amazon a decent price reduction for the privilege of being in their system, so I assume I benefit from that.

But fresh foods? Would you buy your apples from Amazon? Would enough people do so to justify the amount that the Consumer Staples sector is down?

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The market over-responds. Time to buy more on those dips, remember?

As for the Amazon/Whole Foods model? Well, I wouldn't buy my perishables (especially fruit and veggies) that way, but everything else that is not perishable? Why not?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> The market over-responds. Time to buy more on those dips, remember?
> 
> As for the Amazon/Whole Foods model? Well, I wouldn't buy my perishables (especially fruit and veggies) that way, but everything else that is not perishable? Why not?



Yeah sure, I admit to buying kitchen waste bags and a lot of other kitchen products from Amazon. Their delivery times are unbelievable.

Loblaws has already been experimenting over the last year or so with online ordering of food at my local store. It's called Click and Collect. 

I was keenly interested when I saw the four designated parking places that are painted red in my Loblaws lot where you can pick up your order after ordering your groceries online. I made a mental note to check out those spots every week when I went to shop _the old fashion way_ with my cart, because it must be incredibly more convenient to click on your groceries online and then drive to the store and pick them up rather than the horror of pushing a cart around the store and actually scrutenizing your own vegetables and fruit inside the store. Sheesh.

Well, maybe Loblaws will have a different story, but my "_on the ground"_ survey reveals to me that I haven't seen a single car in the red zone yet!

But maybe if you can click on your groceries and then have them show up at my door will actually work and be successful. I do know that when I'm in the store I'm fairly particular about fruit and vegetables. I like this vegetable, but I won't accept the one directly beside it. Who will now be be making these decsions for me at Amazon - a robot?

Thoughts?


ltr


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

They are doing so many more things. They've experimented with no cash registers, just pick up and go. Amazon is primarily a logistics and distribution company. Which is pretty much what grocery stores are. Who knows what they have in mind. Maybe you tell Alexa at home (their smart speaker) that you need XYZ. It has it ready for you at a store. Maybe they didn't even have it in stock when you told Alexa. Maybe the system gets smart enough to know that you go through toilet paper and milk at a rate of XX per month and reminds you to check your stock or orders it for you.

Amazon is just as ruthless with cost cutting as Walmart is. We just think of them as a technology company.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> I do know that when I'm in the store I'm fairly particular about fruit and vegetables. I like this vegetable, but I won't accept the one directly beside it. Who will now be be making these decsions for me at Amazon - a robot?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ...


Like I said, I wouldn't buy my perishables picked out by a robot....lol. I am particular too selecting my individual pieces of perishables...and fresh meats. 

But the freedom to get everything else online and door delivery allows me to go to the specialty market for my fresh foods. I can see the home delivery model working for those who want to avoid the burden of shopping carts and lugging stuff home. Ultimately one size does not fit all.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Years ago people would shop at the corner grocery store and someone would deliver them to their door.....and put them away if asked.

Years from now, there will be companies that send somebody over to stuff food in our mouths.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

Costco dropped today on the Amazon news so I bought more shares. Thanks Amazon


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> Years ago people would shop at the corner grocery store and someone would deliver them to their door.....and put them away if asked.
> 
> Years from now, there will be companies that send somebody over to stuff food in our mouths.


Years ago some of those stores would take an order by phone, then deliver it. Bilton's on Mount Pleasant Road in Toronto comes to mind.

Today, Quality Foods in Campbell River will, for $5, assemble a phone-in or email order and deliver it to the mail plane to be picked up at a remote location.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

.

i have seen the future of food that's going to work for me. At least until this december, when they'll stop. 

i have to go to the store though. The procedure is still choose with the eye, pick up with the hands. Plus it's more expensive than any other store.

still, i'm committed.

they started as a rainbow of good-looking young people selling the most drop-dead gorgeous fresh organic vegetables you ever did see. At an established gourmet food store in the neighbourhood. Once a week, thursday afternoons, from 2 pm to 6 pm. Every week, a different rainbow. There are 12 of them, the rainbow farmers tell me. They are barely 20 years of age. They rotate their city market sites, in teams of 2, every week.

promptly at 6 pm, the rainbow packs up its wooden crates into a rented van, sweeps the floor & disappears, not to be seen or heard from again until the following thursday afternoon.

were you wanting their delicious heritage tomatoes? get there before 2 pm, they'll bring 300 or 400 pounds of red, yellow, green striped, brown & pink tomatoes but everything will be sold by 2:30 pm. Were you wanting organic eggs from their farm? there's a waiting list to buy their eggs, if you don't make the actual egg list this summer they promise they'll have more hens, therefore more eggs, next year.

i visited their farm website. The farm itself is southwest of montreal, on the way to the new york state border. It's a permaculture operation. Totally bio-organic. It's obvious there's a ton of money behind this particular farm. The place even has a helicopter landing field.

the website says, mysteriously, that the farm is owned by "philanthropists." There are hints & overtones of cultural diversity, of rainbow skin colours, of harmony, of peace. I found myself wondering if the aga Khan might be the godfather here.

it's the best food we've ever known.

.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> Years ago some of those stores would take an order by phone, then deliver it. Bilton's on Mount Pleasant Road in Toronto comes to mind.
> 
> Today, Quality Foods in Campbell River will, for $5, assemble a phone-in or email order and deliver it to the mail plane to be picked up at a remote location.


And you could also have a tab on account and settle it after payday. Simpler, sweeter times...


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't know what gets into people. For Amazon to buy Whole Foods they must be planning on keeping the stores as they are. Otherwise they just wasted billions of dollars. So, both companies will continue more or less as they are. One analyst picked up on something which is, if WF operates in all 50 states they must pay sales tax in all states that have it. Amazon has been resisting charging sales tax and does so to only a few states. If they merge the companies they will have to charge tax in all states.

The stock market is in a nervous mood. Last week a rotten rating of Nvidia by Citron drove dozens of tech companies down by 5% to 15% and killed the NASDAQ. Now a commonplace buyout is shaking the whole retail sector. It doesn't look good.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

indexxx said:


> And you could also have a tab on account and settle it after payday. Simpler, sweeter times...


True indexxx. 

I recall way back moving into a neighbourhood where most folks shopped at a local family-operated grocery store. I soon realized that many people would check out, saying "Just put it on my account." So I asked the proprietor: How do I open an account? I was expecting to have to supply various forms if ID, evidence of financial capacity, university transcripts, etc. Instead, the answer was disarmingly simple. He answered : "Just say I'd like to open an account." That was it. The record-keeping was simply a stack of ledger cards in a wooden box, in alphabetical order, with no more recorded on most than just a name. At one point I asked the proprietor if they did not get stiffed on a regular basis. He said if that happened, they would not advance credit. He explained that over the years there was almost never a bad debt. He said he recalled only two, and they arose due to the death of the account holder and he did not choose to seek recompense from the estate. So even in that case, it was not a bad debt resulting from wilful default. I doubt such a system would work today.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Amazon is going to conquer retail, thats a given, but not everything can be delivered by fedex, so they need a footprint. What better footprint than a grocery store. People have to go there at least once a week. So now there will probably be a fulfillment center in the back for the mail orders. Grab your drugs and perishables at the same time. Starbucks and Timmys on the side, apple or MS store in there too. Its a massive vertical integration exercises and its going to rehape the world. The major mall concept is DOA. Too expensive.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)




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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Amazon is going to get their share of retail. They are not going to get 100% for two reasons: they can't be everything to everyone, and if they were to get that large, every government on earth would be going at them hammer and tongs on antitrust grounds. No company is going to be allowed to 'conquer retail'. All they can do is carve out a significant, hopefully highly profitable share of the market.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

amazon is a retail disrupter. They are redefining retail with the technology we have today.

I buy a lot of non-perishable items on amazon that I used to buy at the local grocery store. I still buy perishable foods locally, but having grown up on a farm I'm also very conscious that perishable food is artificially altered to look better for all the city slickers who think they know what the "better" produce looks like.. The comments above about choosing your own fruit reminds me of watching how fickle people choose the "fresher" produce that was still attached to the tree or plant itself.. I would happily pay less for unadulterated produce with some blemishes like what you find at a farmer's market but with the convenience of amazon.

Sears and other retailers who don't adapt will fail. I'm not sure what amazon has in mind next but there is lots left to disrupt


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

To me, Amazon's greatest achievement and one of their primary goals is shipping. 

It's the reason I tend to gravitate to Amazon when I buy something online. I have clicked an Amazon "Buy" in the morning, only to hear the rap on the door in the afternoon. Freaking amazing. 

All the other wannabees fuss with their web site graphics while Amazon has narrowed into what's really important in online shopping, and that's getting the product to the door fast.

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Things can come quick from Costco online too. I ordered a monitor one late Monday afternoon. It was at my front door less than 24 hrs later. The order was processed in Richmond, BC and shipped that evening on the overnight Fedex truck to Kelowna...and on the delivery van the next morning (theoretically could have been delivered at 9am if I had been the van's first stop.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Things can come quick from Costco online too. I ordered a monitor one late Monday afternoon. It was at my front door less than 24 hrs later. The order was processed in Richmond, BC and shipped that evening on the overnight Fedex truck to Kelowna...and on the delivery van the next morning (theoretically could have been delivered at 9am if I had been the van's first stop.



Exactly, and I don't understand why the entire online shopping world (save for Amazon and a few others) haven't figured out the most important part of this new method of buying products. 

It's shipping! That's what all this drone nonsense is about. Get the product to the door as fast as possible and you'll win.

ltr


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Maybe I'm weird, but I will seldom pay a penny premium for faster shipping. I regularly use the free super saver shipping and get it in under two days... This is why Prime is a waste of money, especially in Canada where we don't get any of the other perks.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i'm not sure why getting a routine order delivered in 24 hours or less matters, but i note that it appears to matter deeply to ltr & aRed, so i'm willing to accept that fast delivery is important to some people.

which are the businesses that are going to benefit from Del to Door? firstly, corrugated cardboard, as in boxes & cartons. Pulp companies could benefit.

then we have a lot of delivery vans running around. Most of them appear to be running on gasoline. I'm not seeing diesel delivery vans but maybe that's because i'm in crowded congested downtown. Still, the carbon emissions are serious. This is not good.

do i want to be walking around a city district that has drones criss-crossing only a metre above my head, all clutching cartons in their forceps that are destined to be delivered to my neighbours?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It does not matter one iota... Just saying fast delivery is not the exclusive domain of Amazon. I wouldn't pay a penny extra for expedited shipping either and I don't participate in Amazon Prime.

Per HP, I too wonder of the climate change effects...albeit the FedEx truck making several deliveries may be less mileage than everyone running to the mall individually. You want packaging? Buy ITP or CCL. You want to participate in distribution warehousing? Buy AAR.UN or its competitors.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> It does not matter one iota... Just saying fast delivery is not the exclusive domain of Amazon. I wouldn't pay a penny extra for expedited shipping either and I don't participate in Amazon Prime.
> 
> Per HP, I too wonder of the climate change effects...albeit the FedEx truck making several deliveries may be less mileage than everyone running to the mall individually. You want packaging? Buy ITP or CCL. You want to participate in distribution warehousing? Buy AAR.UN or its competitors.



good stuff! i'm glad you're staying true to form & not being fooled into paying more just to get it on tuesday instead of wednesday ...

i imagine the FedEx truck is somewhat more efficient - ie less gas - than many shoppers all wondering off to the malls on their own.

re food, just about everybody knows the advantages of bio farm produce & slow cooking/slow food by now.

but lately i've discovered there's a slow clothing movement. These folks are weaving their own cloth, sewing their own clothes. It seems to be an offshoot of advanced knitting, where the knitters either own their own sheep or else they know who sheared the animals. They spin their own wool yarns from the fleeces.

a cornerstone of the slow clothing movement is that one should actually possess very few clothes at any one time. It's an inevitable consequence of the fact that the clothing items, themselves, are quite painstaking to fabricate. The fact that slow clothing is also frugal & beneficial to the environment are sidebar plusses.

slow clothing is the opposite of the consumption economy. It also means that artful mending has suddenly become extremely fashionable.
.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Maybe I'm weird, but I will seldom pay a penny premium for faster shipping. I regularly use the free super saver shipping and get it in under two days... This is why Prime is a waste of money, especially in Canada where we don't get any of the other perks.


Prime video has been available to Canadians since last fall. I never pay extra for shipping but I signed up for Prime mainly because they reunited the original Top Gear presenters (I could never pay for Top Gear if I wanted to before) Prime shipping usually takes 3 days to get to the outer edge of civilization, but it is the most consistent online shipping I've experienced and I've been shopping online since eBay started. It's also the most convenient to self manage (easily change, cancel, add to orders before they ship etc) Refunds are also extremely easy - in my experience they just send a replacement etc

By comparison I recently ordered from another Canadian website and a few days later a CSR calls me at work because something was out of stock even though the website said otherwise. Now I have to come up with something else on the spot and turns out things the website listed as out of stock are actually in stock and they have to get my Visa numbers again and do an adjustment and send an email to follow up.. Similar experiences from other websites where I had to call in to make a simple change, which in turn messed up their packer and I had to call back later to get it sorted out etc. Amazon is never like this.

The USA is about 5 years ahead of Canada in online shopping and always has been. Most Canadian online shopping is watered down copy cats of US websites. I've been getting US shipments made to friends or hotels for over a decade and only recently has that become really mainstream, the last hotel was the first time I saw a room dedicated to online parcels (vast majority were amazon Prime parcels by the way) I agree with you there isn't much point paying for Prime, it should get you an additional 5% discount or something. Amazon isn't always the cheapest but I find it the most reliable and convenient experience.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> i'm not sure why getting a routine order delivered in 24 hours or less matters, but i note that it appears to matter deeply to ltr & aRed, so i'm willing to accept that fast delivery is important to some people.............
> 
> ..............then we have a lot of delivery vans running around. Most of them appear to be running on gasoline. I'm not seeing diesel delivery vans but maybe that's because i'm in crowded congested downtown. Still, the carbon emissions are serious. This is not good.


HP, not many are blessed with your patience. It's a great virtue to possess. Generally though, a high value is placed on fast delivery. It's really the only attribute left that all the wannabees haven't mastered. The products at Amazon aren't that unique, as every company has access to basically the same products. A secure site isn't that unique, as everyone has access to that software today. What makes Amazon and a few others so unique, is that they have developed the massive robotic and worker fulfillment centers to facilitate almost instant delivery. 

Ask someone why they like a particular online shop and the answer will usually be something like, "I clicked it in the afternoon and had the darn thing the next morning - amazing".

Amazons attention and awareness of this requirement is what will allow them to have a chance at success in the food delivery business. I just haven't decided if it will be accepted by people or not. I guess we'll see. If we all had patience, we wouldn't mind clicking a bag of oranges and getting them a week later, but speed is going to be especially important when it comes to food.

With regard to excess carbon emissions, some may argue that this model will reduce emissions as each delivery would have precipitated a car trip to the store and back, where a single trip with many packages in a truck would be better. Think of everyone using their car to get to work compared to a bus driving them all.

ltr


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Very seldom do I buy things online I don't need it immediately. I will choose cheaper delivery over exceedingly quick. Amazon is spending heavily on fast delivery, I'm not sure it is a sustainable way to profitability.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> Loblaws has already been experimenting over the last year or so with online ordering of food at my local store. It's called Click and Collect.
> 
> ltr


I started using Loblaws app...rocks hard I love it. Produce is better than that available in the store...just call them that you're outside you get the goods in a minute...thats why you never see cars parked there...they're home already while the rest are playing shopping cart rodeo.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> Things can come quick from Costco online too. I ordered a monitor one late Monday afternoon. It was at my front door less than 24 hrs later. The order was processed in Richmond, BC and shipped that evening on the overnight Fedex truck to Kelowna...and on the delivery van the next morning (theoretically could have been delivered at 9am if I had been the van's first stop.


I just ordered from Cabela's online the other day...free shipping ...boom ...fly rod & Garmin Explorer shows up in 2 days at my daughters door, much better price than Amazon.ca. Amazon seems easily emulated.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eder said:


> Amazon seems easily emulated.


There is way more to amazon than shipping...

I find that amazon is more like the google of online shopping - it's very intuitive to find what you're looking for quickly. Best selling and reviewed items rise to the top but like google there is a lot of magic going on under the hood. amazon's online popularity means items have more stats and verified reviews and the more useful reviews rise to the top. It also shows items that others with similar shopping patterns viewed or purchased etc. 

amazon is the first place I ever bought cheap mundane items online. I don't want to waste much if any time cross shopping or researching small ticket items. From the moment I realise I want any small ticket item I can usually find a better item for less on amazon faster than if I went to walmart/sears/target etc and find the aisle and then compare a few items with no knowledge of what sells better or what the reviews are etc.

I've been buying big ticket items online for over a decade and I still go to niche websites for the big ticket items. If I was buying a GPS I would probably go to gpscity.ca first because they are known for gps in Canada but then I would cross shop a few places online because it's a relatively big ticket item and I will spend some time shopping around and researching etc. The vast majority of what I buy on amazon are under $50 and rarely over $100

When I go to most web stores like costco items have like 3 reviews. They're more like Lycos or webcrawler or something pre-google


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> ... Loblaws has already been experimenting over the last year or so with online ordering of food at my local store. It's called Click and Collect.
> 
> I was keenly interested when I saw the four designated parking places that are painted red in my Loblaws lot where you can pick up your order after ordering your groceries online. I made a mental note to check out those spots every week when I went to shop _the old fashion way_ with my cart, because it must be incredibly more convenient to click on your groceries online and then drive to the store and pick them up rather than the horror of pushing a cart around the store and actually scrutenizing your own vegetables and fruit inside the store. Sheesh.
> 
> ...


I haven't checked the parking pickup stops (how long does it take for the groceries to be put into one's car?). Inside Loblaws however, the storage room/bins where the groceries sit until one shows up to collect them have most of the time I checked looked like three quarters of the space full of groceries. It may be a regional thing but it seems to be used.

Then too, WalMart is offering the same service (with designated pickup parking spots). My co-worker thinks it is a great improvement.




like_to_retire said:


> ... I do know that when I'm in the store I'm fairly particular about fruit and vegetables. I like this vegetable, but I won't accept the one directly beside it. Who will now be be making these decsions for me at Amazon - a robot?


Same problem for Amazon, Loblaws, WalMart and the older services circa 1999 that delivered groceries to one's door (http://www.canadiangrocer.com/top-stories/the-man-from-grocery-gateway-29761).

I can see where if a truck takes the returns, it might be okay but for drive up places - I wouldn't want to be returning stuff.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> Exactly, and I don't understand why the entire online shopping world (save for Amazon and a few others) haven't figured out the most important part of this new method of buying products.
> 
> It's shipping! That's what all this drone nonsense is about. Get the product to the door as fast as possible and you'll win ...


I'd have said receiving the package instead of a thief intercepting or stealing it matters as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...r-packages-stolen_us_56659500e4b08e945feff616


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm surprised nobody has made a decent mail box to drop online parcels into securely. I looked awhile ago and there were some options but not really reasonably priced. I'm sure they will come soon.. in a few years I imagine boxes to drop parcels will be as common as the now defunct mail box for your paper bills..

In Europe at least there were smart boxes at the grocery stores where you could retrieve a parcel with a code you received by sms. Canada Post recently installed more community boxes in place of home delivery.. and that would have been a prime opportunity to consider that parcels are the future of mail..


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Except for possibly the secure part, I'm not sure what the complaint is about the Canada Post community box is for parcel delivery.

The smaller personal box had a note that the package is in larger box X with a key attached. Not as high tech as an SMS message but as long as I opened my box within a reasonable amount of time, the package was far more secure than some delivery companies who can't arrive within the scheduled arrival time slot then leave the package in the the most visible spot possible.


I haven't tested the lock with a screwdriver to see if I can open the mail boxes at random like the first community mail box locks allowed. :confused2:


Cheers


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

m3s said:


> I'm surprised nobody has made a decent mail box to drop online parcels into securely. I looked awhile ago and there were some options but not really reasonably priced. I'm sure they will come soon.. in a few years I imagine boxes to drop parcels will be as common as the now defunct mail box for your paper bills..
> 
> In Europe at least there were smart boxes at the grocery stores where you could retrieve a parcel with a code you received by sms. Canada Post recently installed more community boxes in place of home delivery.. and that would have been a prime opportunity to consider that parcels are the future of mail..


canadapost has flex delivery which effectively accomplishes what you are asking for, also, amazon has its own version which usually delivers to the same places which are usually postal outlets ... you just select flex-delivery instead lf home delivery and you get an email when the item is ready for pickup ... better than parcel boxes in my opinion


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

fatcat said:


> canadapost has flex delivery which effectively accomplishes what you are asking for, also, amazon has its own version which usually delivers to the same places which are usually postal outlets ... you just select flex-delivery instead lf home delivery and you get an email when the item is ready for pickup ... better than parcel boxes in my opinion


1. Is flex delivery free now? Last I checked it had a monthly fee. I'm pretty sure I already had an account but I can't seem to log in anymore and it's not taking my epost account either (what a defunct mess epost is!) I'll have to go show my I.D. at Canada Post which is fair enough

2. Is it service agnostic? Canada Post Flex probably won't accept anything but Canada Post. No UPS/FedEx/Purolator/DHL etc. This is the same issue for the community boxes (which were clearly not designed with parcels in mind, or they would have made more/larger boxes)

3. Do I have to drive to a Canada Post office with bankers hours? The setup in Europe was at grocery stores which were always centrally located where everyone goes already and open 24/7 as it was just an unmanned smartbox in a parking lot

Don't get me wrong I will probably use Flex Delivery and it looks like they have upgraded the online portal since I last looked, but Canada Post is not very adept to keeping up with the times (see their epost failure as a horrid example)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

During my commute I listened to the CBC Radio discussion on the amazon purchase of whole foods and it clicked for me

I already made a thread about how I can now get just about all my recurring non-perishable household items on amazon much more conveniently and most often cheaper than visiting the local grocery/department store/pharmacy etc and watching for sales/cutting coupons etc. This means that when I shop for groceries locally I basically go for fresh items like fruits/vegetables/meats/dairy etc and that's it.

Amazon likely plans to make a place for people to get the remaining items quickly and conveniently. I imagine you would just pick up the fresh items you need and it would automatically be charged to your amazon card as you walk out the door or something. No senior citizens comparing lima beans in the middle of the aisle for 10 minutes and no people arguing their coupons or writing cheques at the cash register.

They said amazon has deliveries down to hours in major hubs like NY and expect the same in major Canadian cities within years


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> 1. Is flex delivery free now?


It would seem so as Canada Post's web page about it has "It's free."




m3s said:


> 2. Is it service agnostic? Canada Post Flex probably won't accept anything but Canada Post. No UPS/FedEx/*Purolator*/DHL etc ...


So far, the only note is that one needs to make sure the online store can ship to a P.O. box - no mention of needing a specific shipper.

It is ironic that Purolator would be a concern as Canada Post owns 91% of Purolator.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purolator_Inc.




m3s said:


> ... community boxes (which were clearly not designed with parcels in mind, or they would have made more/larger boxes)


I guess it depends on how large a box on typically orders. Though where the box is too big, instead of a key for the parcel compartment, a notice to pick up the larger parcel at the nearest outlet is given.




m3s said:


> ... 3. Do I have to drive to a Canada Post office with bankers hours?


Maybe in a small town? 
Or where one chose the delivery location badly?

The two items I have had to pickup (one because of parcel size, the other because a signature was required) was at a CP outlet with hours of Monday thru Friday of 7am to 9pm, Sat 8am to 9pm and Sunday 8am to 6pm.




m3s said:


> ... The setup in Europe was at grocery stores which were always centrally located where everyone goes already and open 24/7 as it was just an unmanned smartbox in a parking lot.


Whereas I have to drive by the community mailbox as well as the CP outlet Monday through Friday on the way to work. I suppose the restrictions of the CP outlet hours could come into play at some point but so far, there's nothing I have been in enough of a hurry that 24/7 would be a need.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> ... Amazon likely plans to make a place for people to get the remaining items quickly and conveniently. I imagine you would just pick up the fresh items you need and it would automatically be charged to your amazon card as you walk out the door or something. No senior citizens comparing lima beans in the middle of the aisle for 10 minutes and no people arguing their coupons or writing cheques at the cash register.
> 
> They said amazon has deliveries down to hours in major hubs like NY and expect the same in major Canadian cities within years


Good to have more competition ... question is whether it will be worth it compared to what's already available.


Cheers


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## cwhaley (Apr 6, 2010)

*Amazon/WholeFoods*

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but Grocery Gateway in Canada has been delivering groceries from online orders for decades now, while US online grocery companies went bankrupt.

And not just groceries... beer, wine, and any liquor you want. Why ever leave home?

The groceries are sourced at Longos, a close competitor to Whole Foods, so you pay extra for inferior produce, because they have organic labels, but hey, the model been working for a long time.

Not sure how Amazon could rock that boat?

...Charles


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

m3s said:


> 1. Is flex delivery free now? Last I checked it had a monthly fee. I'm pretty sure I already had an account but I can't seem to log in anymore and it's not taking my epost account either (what a defunct mess epost is!) I'll have to go show my I.D. at Canada Post which is fair enough
> 
> 2. Is it service agnostic? Canada Post Flex probably won't accept anything but Canada Post. No UPS/FedEx/Purolator/DHL etc. This is the same issue for the community boxes (which were clearly not designed with parcels in mind, or they would have made more/larger boxes)
> 
> ...


yes, it is free and signup is easy ... you get an email when your item has been delivered AND is ready for pickup, in other words it will be there when you arrive

it will work for anything that you can get delivered by canada post, no purolator, no fedex or ups, all of whom should have nearby pickup locations depending on where you live

all of the flex delivery points in my city of victoria are at postal outlets which tend to be open until 8pm

amazon has their own seperate parcel pickup protocol, also mostly at postal outlets, which does NOT require you to have a flex delivery address

i agree with you on epost which seems useless to me but i disagree on canadapost, i love to rag on them wherever possible but they are actually getting better and better i think


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yea I will give FlexDelivery another shot (wasn't free last time I tried) It will definitely be handy in some situations

I was thinking more about a smartbox on the house or on the street itself though.. The majority of my parcels are left on the doorstep (sometimes parcels are left at the patio door, and once they even moved the garbage bin to hide an expensive parcel from street view) The next best option seems to be the community box for the odd parcel that actually fits in it, and then it's the convenience store on the corner. The only time a parcel goes to Canada Post itself is when I have to pay duties and that involves driving downtown during banker's hours, parallel parking on the street and waiting in line behind the seniors mailing Hallmark cards back to the future and hand writing cheques

We don't have FedEx here.. If something comes via FedEx and I miss the home delivery.. it goes 200kms away!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

cwhaley said:


> It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but Grocery Gateway in Canada has been delivering groceries from online orders for decades now, while US online grocery companies went bankrupt ... The groceries are sourced at Longos, a close competitor ...


My understanding is that Grocery Gateway would have gone bankrupt, if not for Longos buying them in 2004.




cwhaley said:


> ... Not sure how Amazon could rock that boat?


In the time since 2004, there's other similar services that are also tied to grocery stores, there's other similar services that aren't tied to grocery stores and there's the stores themselves offering the order online then pickup at store option.


The way I can see Amazon making a difference is offering to areas that don't have such delivery services where people aren't up to stopping off at the store (ex. someone who is only up to going out a limited number of times a week).

Plus there could be buyouts/consolidation .... time will tell.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> Yea I will give FlexDelivery another shot (wasn't free last time I tried) It will definitely be handy in some situations ...


I still haven't found all the details so maybe there's a problem lurking or fee. :biggrin:




m3s said:


> ... I was thinking more about a smartbox on the house or on the street itself though ...


While convenient ... I'm not sure how many homeowners want one at their house. Certainly one can build/setup one if one wants to - though I'm not sure how consistently the delivery service will follow through with special instructions.




m3s said:


> ... then it's the convenience store on the corner. The only time a parcel goes to Canada Post itself is when I have to pay duties and that involves driving downtown during banker's hours ...


If the convenience store has a CP outlet in it, I'm not sure why paying duties would force the downtown office with banker's hours. AFAICT, the outlet version with the longer hours has what is needed to collect the duties, get signatures etc. There is some variation in services (ex. some don't offer mailboxes, some do) but I would not have though collecting duties (they have to collect cash for stamps anyway) would be a variation.




m3s said:


> ... We don't have FedEx here.. If something comes via FedEx and I miss the home delivery.. it goes 200kms away!


It wasn't as bad as 200 Km but it was still annoying to have someone home to receive the parcel in the delivery window but have a miss as the attempted delivery was outside the window. The annoyance was doubled when because of the type, instead of the depot 10 Km away as the notice said - when a phone call was made to check on the parcel, it was sent to a different depot 50 Km away. :confused2:


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> While convenient ... I'm not sure how many homeowners want one at their house. Certainly one can build/setup one if one wants to - though I'm not sure how consistently the delivery service will follow through with special instructions.


I wouldn't bother with special instructions. I imagine they will become mainstream with time and it will be like most modern mundane objects in life that we all learned to use as a child. If you grew up in the jungle you would probably need special instructions to open a door

Then again I think a parcel drop box is pretty self explanatory to the average person who delivers parcels for a living. Some of them even say "Parcel" to be absolutely certain. I could always give a temporary number code to my garage door but that seems too complicated



Eclectic12 said:


> If the convenience store has a CP outlet in it, I'm not sure why paying duties would force the downtown office with banker's hours. AFAICT, the outlet version with the longer hours has what is needed to collect the duties, get signatures etc.


Its not really a CP outlet. It's just a small convenience store that happens to hold parcels. They verify ID and take signatures but they don't take duties or sell stamps. I doubt they would accept a parcel to mail out either


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

m3s said:


> I wouldn't bother with special instructions ... Then again I think a parcel drop box is pretty self explanatory to the average person who delivers parcels for a living ...


One would think so ... but somehow the concept of either sticking to the delivery window or calling to ask about another time seems to be a tough challenge.

Or the other odd one IMO - why would such a pro have a problem with "drop the parcel as the the business's delivery site". If the same company had problems delivering the other parcels that day, it would be understandable but how can some make it through to the clerk without issue but for whatever reason, mine was left outside.




m3s said:


> ... Its not really a CP outlet. It's just a small convenience store that happens to hold parcels. They verify ID and take signatures but they don't take duties or sell stamps. I doubt they would accept a parcel to mail out either


Interesting ... I wouldn't have thought it was worth setting up if they couldn't handle $$ and stamps.


Cheers


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