# How to get by on $35k in Toronto



## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

Interesting read - http://www.thegridto.com/life/finance/spent-getting-by-in-toronto/


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Echo said:


> Interesting read - http://www.thegridto.com/life/finance/spent-getting-by-in-toronto/


Thanks for the article.
What I took from that article is don't get a bachelor of arts, seemed a theme.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Why would anyone making such a low salary want to live in an expensive place like Toronto? I find it unlikely that they couldn't find similar jobs in other much cheaper towns.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Everything has gone up but wages..........pretty much sums it up.

Not much of a future for real estate, travel planners, retail stores...........or businesses trying to sell their wares, if the trend continues in the same direction.

Maybe when the boomers start retiring..........but I hear they might be working another 20 years or so themselves.


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## Compounding1 (May 13, 2012)

The article title is misleading. It really doesn't say how to get by or give any helpful tips. I did find it interesting that the median income for people aged 25-34 in 2010 in Toronto was only $33,300 though.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Compounding1 said:


> I did find it interesting that the median income for people aged 25-34 in 2010 in Toronto was only $33,300 though.


The article doesn't state this at all.

In the disclaimer paragraph, ONLY participants earning less than $33,000 were involved. The whole article is pretty silly and really begs the question of why these individuals are not doing more to get out of their current situation.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm guessing they choose to live in Toronto because that's where the art scene is. 

Looks like most of them are pretty happy despite the high cost. They seem to be living well with plenty of luxuries. As some of the commentators have pointed out, you can live in Toronto on roughly half that much salary. The girl in case study 3 seems to have her priorities straight.


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

Hawkdog said:


> Thanks for the article.
> What I took from that article is don't get a bachelor of arts, seemed a theme.


Over-educated, under-employed. No real sense of urgency to change their situation. I know Rob Carrick's been really vocal about how tough things are for this generation, but this article pretty much sums up what's really going on.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Devil's advocate: how is living in Toronto *more* expensive for these people profiled than living in, say, a small town? 

I lived in a town of 1000 people for 10 years, and I now live in Toronto. Town of 1000: no grocery store. No restaurant. No "scene" of any kind...if I wanted to do ANYTHING, I had to drive to a neighbouring town or city. Yes, the cost of real estate was cheaper...but if you are a young singleton who is planning on renting for the foreseeable future, does that really matter? 

Living in my little hamlet was MORE expensive for me than living in Toronto will ever be. I can probably walk to several hundred restaurants from my front porch. If you are into the music or film or theatre scene, Toronto is going to be a better place for you to live than Smith's Falls or Napanee or Perth or any of a million places where your real estate dollar could go further.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

No need to move to some small hamlet, but a town like Waterloo or London or Windsor. I lived in Waterloo and my rent was something like $670/month for a pretty nice 1 bedroom, this was only a few years ago. I guess there's no "art scene" (I'm not even entirely sure what that is) but in a city of 100k you got every type of big box store, every restaurant, bars/clubs, no need to visit Toronto. Car insurance is much cheaper. Transportation is cheaper because you can get from end of the city to the other very quickly. Not to mention people are just nicer.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Carrington-learn to love law and get back into the game.THIS IS YOUR WAKE UP CALL.....film critic?video store?30,living with mom........do the math.Captian obvious no?sheesh.(talk about being asleep @ the wheel)not trying to judge but c'mon.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

!! I grew up in K-W. Couldn't leave fast enough.  Transportation isn't cheaper if you don't have a car and have to rely on public transit. 

I'm not advocating living on $33K. But: if you are going to live on $33K my argument would be you get a higher overall quality of life in Toronto than you would in K-W. Of course, this depends on what you value: but your entertainment, food and transportation dollar goes farther in a big city than it does in a smaller city or town.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MG makes a good point. Real estate is the only thing that is more expensive in Toronto. 

That article is interesting - those people have made choices which in most cases don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Why take 3 degrees? Why do a law degree if you don't want to be a lawyer? 

I'd like to say they are all nuts, but if they are happier and don't care too much about their financial future then who am I to criticize.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Another point: let's say your ultimate goal is to earn $100K. Where are those $100K jobs distributed? There are MANY more of them in Toronto than there are in London, Waterloo, Smith's Falls or any other city or town that's been mentioned as a Toronto alternative in this thread. I'd rate the difficulty of finding out about/landing a $100K job coming from Smith's Falls as much more difficult (probably exponentially more difficult) than for someone living, working and networking in Toronto.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> Another point: let's say your ultimate goal is to earn $100K. Where are those $100K jobs distributed?


But if the cost of living is higher in Toronto, $100K may be equivalent to earning $60K in London, Waterloo, Smith's Falls, etc. in terms of buying power (esp. for real estate). I don't know if this is really true for Toronto, but I believe it's true in places like Manhattan and parts of San Francisco where the cost of living is so high that $100K would be considered a modest income. A quote I saw on another forum: "For example, in California I paid over $400/year to register my car. In Oregon I pay less than $100 every two years to register the same car. In California I paid $2,400/month to rent a duplex. In Oregon I pay $1,400/month towards the mortgage of my four bedroom home!"

So perhaps if the goal is to have the highest standard of living that one could obtain with $100K, rather than a goal of earning $100K per se, Toronto might not be the best place to look if your income potential is limited. That also of course depends on how you define "standard of living" or "quality of life." Earning $100K in a city that bores you to death seems like a hollow victory.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

As someone who grew up in Kitchener-Waterloo (and Calgary), who has lived in the third world (India), as well as rural Eastern Ontario and now Toronto, I can say that in my experience, the cost of living is NOT multiples higher in Toronto. If we are measuring *shelter* and not *home ownership* I would make this argument even more strongly. If we are measuring how many different kinds of "ethnic" food I can access for $3 from my doorstep, even more so. :02.47-tranquillity:


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> If we are measuring how many different kinds of "ethnic" food I can access for $3 from my doorstep, even more so. :02.47-tranquillity:


No fair! 

Cost of living as measured by groceries, eating out an other critical expenses is certainly cheaper in the Big Smoke than in Calgary. As is rent as I understand it, and parking.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> !! I grew up in K-W. Couldn't leave fast enough.


As my cousin, who grew up in Kitchener, always said: "K/W - All of the problems of a big city, none of the conveniences."


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## Potato (Apr 3, 2009)

Well, I grew up in Toronto and spent 10 years in London (and am now back in Toronto). I miss London a lot -- and it's not just shelter that's cheaper there. I don't know what food MG is finding in Toronto for $3 (or where -- it's a big place), but everything I've ever seen is either the same or more expensive than in London. Groceries are more, transit passes are more; curling and sports are _way _more, but I lose so much time to commuting that I haven't been able to join a league anyway. True that London doesn't have as many sunshine list jobs, but then there are a lot of positions with flat provincial or federal payscales for many out there. Now maybe London is just a magical place with all the balances right...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Last night on the way home from the airport I stopped at T&T and bought "end of day" sushi and prepared Chinese hot food, all for $2.99 per plate (each plate designed to serve 3-4 people); I regularly get $2 bahn mi either on Spadina (walk over on my lunch hour) or in Chinatown east, a short cycle from my home; I can get 6 samsosas for $3 at the foot of my street, and Thursday night I will take my kids for $3 kathi rolls at the fast food Indian place we like on the way home from art class, or we could stop for $2 "bannock hot dogs" at the Native Canadian place that's right next to the art school. Mystery solved?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Why do ''new canadians'' that open up ethnic restaurants and grocery stores ect always sell food/items/services for below at least 50% off market prices?That is awesome to have cheap(i'm sure delicious)food but for the life of me i can't understand why anyone would do business this way.Moneygal:you think the ''family''(good bet)Is breaking even selling 6 samsosas for $3?Or native canadians selling hot dogs at 2 bucks a pop?A good bar i would use is mcdonalds which sells single grease burgers for what 5.50.(and they are ****,the lowest market)

I wonder if it is a inferior complex or what(going off topic)Why do these business do this?undercut themselfs so much in the market place.Do they still do the ''math'' and price in their homeland currency.Always wondered about this(i lived in chicago one summer and use to do the same thing-hit up cheap ethic food,my uncle knew where all the deals were,neighborhood sounds exactly the same.....ate the best hotdogs in my life for a buck back in early 2000's)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Maybe answer(s) to your question "Why do "new canadians" that open up ethnic ... " are:

1. Trying to Survive, keep the business afloat? A sale is a sale ... 
2. All due to Competition. Do you know how many "eateries' there're in the city of Toronto ... must be in the '000s ... all competing for the same Joe Public's buck. This would include the biig name franchises TH, MCD, BK, SUBW, etc.. Grocery stores/supermarkets are not that far away... Too bad for the consumers to have limited of choices on telecos, banks, the Ivory Tower businesses.
3. Salaries for workers in these small businesses would be kept very very low ... workers would be blessed to have a job to go to and not being under Third World countries' working conditions. 
4. Ask your parents / grandparents - understand you're an immigrant from the boot-shaped country - how did they survive living in Toronto(?) decades back? Even they came with a boatload of $$$$ to open a business - it would be every penny saved in the jar (through sweat if not blood) to continue being "in business" ...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

All this. Actually, I won't buy groceries in Chinatown because of what I've read about working conditions there. Cheap food, though. I do buy fish from one family-owned fishmonger.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

donald said:


> A good bar i would use is mcdonalds which sells single grease burgers for what 5.50.(and they are ****,the lowest market)


Just because food is 'ethnic' doesn't mean it's healthy. Cheap food is cheap food. Some cheap ethnic food might be pretty healthy, some might be the Ethiopian equivalent to a hot dog.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> I'm not advocating living on $33K. But: if you are going to live on $33K my argument would be you get a higher overall quality of life in Toronto than you would in K-W. Of course, this depends on what you value: but your entertainment, food and transportation dollar goes farther in a big city than it does in a smaller city or town.


Odd ... I was able to buy a three bedroom house, pay for a car and visit Toronto whenever I wanted the T.O. arts scene on salary of $28K where as my sister and her husband needed two jobs mostly paying their mortgage in Mississauga. Never mind the constant - "I'm canceling my doctor's appointment as the 401 is a parking lot at the moment".

So yes - depending on what you want - YMMV.




peterk said:


> As my cousin, who grew up in Kitchener, always said: "K/W - All of the problems of a big city, none of the conveniences."


*shrug* ... and for the twenty years I lived there I said "90% of Toronto's benefits and 10% of Toronto's hassles". I guess it all depends on what you are used to and what you are looking for.


Cheers


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Moral: Don't buy a house in Mississauga that requires two salaries to service and/or don't live far away from the things you need to reach through routes only accessible by 401. Still doesn't rule out Toronto!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> MG makes a good point. Real estate is the only thing that is more expensive in Toronto...


Unless your big house is a distance from your big paying downtown job, with $23 per day for parking at the office and your are sitting in traffic for a long time each day for your commute. There's a cost for that too.




MoneyGal said:


> Moral: Don't buy a house in Mississauga that requires two salaries to service and/or don't live far away from the things you need to reach through routes only accessible by 401. Still doesn't rule out Toronto!


Their house was only at 200 square feet bigger than mine and wasn't anything fancy. 

And yes - everytime I looked at Toronto, factors such as these ruled it out for what I wanted.


Cheers


*Edit:* Sorry ... I forgot to ask if you are seriously suggesting my sister move closer to each doctor her GP was sending her to?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Well, I think the premise of the article is wrong-headed. You can have a great life in Toronto on $33K (in my opinion), depending on how you define "great life." Living in a suburb and spending a long time commuting sounds just awful to me, hence I don't have that life - but your sister isn't trying to live in Toronto in the first place, nevermind on $33K (I would speculate), so I'm not sure how describing her situation refutes the premise in any case.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Unless your big house is a distance from your big paying downtown job, with $23 per day for parking at the office and your are sitting in traffic for a long time each day for your commute. There's a cost for that too.


There are lots of small houses in Toronto. Probably a higher percentage than in KW. 

You really think most people pay $23 for daily parking downtown instead of taking the GO or TTC? That's not even close to reality.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

sounds like a healthy lifestyle  

Its mostly what makes you tick, I find that in the big smoke there is a lot more to do and a lot more places to eat, consequently I would spend more money.

Where i live, a town of about 5000 people, there are 2 sushi restaurants, 1 chinese, 1 mexican, and several steakhouse types places, plus all the fast food joints.
From where I work i can:
drive 1km to a rapid on the river and kayak during my lunch or fish for steelhead/salmon
I can drive 20 mins and spend the morning on the ski hill - its a big thing here cause the hill is closed mon-wed - so thursday is powder day 
I can ride my bike to the local mtn bike trails in 5 mins or downtown in 10

so it all really depends on what you value, and adjust your spending accordingly.

Personally the one stop light I go through on my way work to work drives me nuts!!!!!!! 

One thing you can add to your list is - its way cheaper to fly out of TO to a lot places!!!!! like europe!!




MoneyGal said:


> Last night on the way home from the airport I stopped at T&T and bought "end of day" sushi and prepared Chinese hot food, all for $2.99 per plate (each plate designed to serve 3-4 people); I regularly get $2 bahn mi either on Spadina (walk over on my lunch hour) or in Chinatown east, a short cycle from my home; I can get 6 samsosas for $3 at the foot of my street, and Thursday night I will take my kids for $3 kathi rolls at the fast food Indian place we like on the way home from art class, or we could stop for $2 "bannock hot dogs" at the Native Canadian place that's right next to the art school. Mystery solved?


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Hawkdog said:


> Where i live, a town of about 5000 people, there are 2 sushi restaurants, 1 chinese, 1 mexican,


I really hope you aren't trying to compare those 4 restaurants with the ones you would find in a big City.

Its not like there is a list of 'must have' items to check off a list that makes a place attractive to live. (not that Smithers is bad mind you, certainly it is a beautiful place the 2 times I've been through that area).


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Hawkdog said:


> Personally the one stop light I go through on my way work to work drives me nuts!!!!!!!


Ok, now I'm jealous.


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

Rather than debating about where to live, maybe these folks should re-think what they do - http://www.forbes.com/sites/robasgh...ons-to-ignore-the-advice-to-do-what-you-love/


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

The Penelope Trunk article linked in that article is a much better read.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

My fave quote from the Penelope Trunk article: 

Often, the thing we should do for our career is something we would only do if we were getting a reward. If you tell yourself that your job has to be something you’d do even if you didn’t get paid, you’ll be looking for a long time. Maybe forever. So why set that standard? The reward for doing a job is contributing to something larger than you are, participating in society, and being valued in the form of money.


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> The Penelope Trunk article linked in that article is a much better read.


Ha! She is a straight-shooter.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> If you tell yourself that your job has to be something you’d do even if you didn’t get paid, you’ll be looking for a long time.


And you might not get paid much for it either...

My fave PT article is this one about how to make your resume look good between jobs - I like #1 in particular:

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/...en-youre-unemployed-hint-its-not-job-hunting/


1. Create a job for yourself. These projects can be wide ranging, but they have to show that you are driven, ambitious and focused. During one stint of unemployment, I worked for free for my boyfriend's company for a couple of hours a day. That way I didn't actually have a gap in my resume; a resume doesn't show part-time or full-time and it doesn't show pay or no pay. So volunteering at my boyfriend's company for a couple of hours a day ended up looking like a full-time job on my resume.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

No sorry if it came across that way, its more of a comparison to other small northern towns that maybe don't have a variety in restaurants.
Not comparable to a big city at all.
I really appreciate the variety of restaurants when I do visit the big city!

I can give you a checklist of what makes a place unattractive to live 



Sampson said:


> I really hope you aren't trying to compare those 4 restaurants with the ones you would find in a big City.
> 
> Its not like there is a list of 'must have' items to check off a list that makes a place attractive to live. (not that Smithers is bad mind you, certainly it is a beautiful place the 2 times I've been through that area).


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Echo said:


> Rather than debating about where to live, maybe these folks should re-think what they do - http://www.forbes.com/sites/robasgh...ons-to-ignore-the-advice-to-do-what-you-love/


Interesting articles, both of them 

Its hard "to do what you love for work" I tried, i did biology for ten years, lots bird work. but its hard to make a living. I have friends that were white water rafting guides, they love rafting but its a whole different story when its a job and catering to clients day in and day out.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> My fave PT article is this one about how to make your resume look good between jobs - I like #1 in particular:
> 
> 1. Create a job for yourself. These projects can be wide ranging, but they have to show that you are driven, ambitious and focused. During one stint of unemployment, I worked for free for my boyfriend's company for a couple of hours a day. That way I didn't actually have a gap in my resume; a resume doesn't show part-time or full-time and it doesn't show pay or no pay. So volunteering at my boyfriend's company for a couple of hours a day ended up looking like a full-time job on my resume.


It's funny, people talk about gaps in their resumes as if it's something you really have to avoid, but when I was hiring people we never bothered to ask about gaps in applicants' resumes because we figured it was irrelevant. Sometimes people lose their job, or they get sick, or whatever, it's not our business. Is it really a factor in hiring someone whether they had an unbroken link from one job to the next? If it were me and my resume, I guess the only reason I'd want to avoid gaps is to avoid stupid questions from HR people about why there was a gap in my resume. If my potential boss made a big deal out of a gap in my resume I'd think twice about whether I'd even want to work for someone that petty. Sorry, I don't know why it's a sore point, because I don't actually have any gaps in my resume, but there is so much resume advice that is based on "that's the way it's done" rather than stepping back and looking at it objectively that it bugs me.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

brad said:


> It's funny, people talk about gaps in their resumes as if it's something you really have to avoid, but when I was hiring people we never bothered to ask about gaps in applicants' resumes because we figured it was irrelevant. Sometimes people lose their job, or they get sick, or whatever, it's not our business. Is it really a factor in hiring someone whether they had an unbroken link from one job to the next? If it were me and my resume, I guess the only reason I'd want to avoid gaps is to avoid stupid questions from HR people about why there was a gap in my resume. If my potential boss made a big deal out of a gap in my resume I'd think twice about whether I'd even want to work for someone that petty. Sorry, I don't know why it's a sore point, because I don't actually have any gaps in my resume, but there is so much resume advice that is based on "that's the way it's done" rather than stepping back and looking at it objectively that it bugs me.


Some good points. I would think that short gaps are ok, it's the longer ones that might be an issue. Ie a 12 month gap might be a red flag (fair or not).

To be honest, I had only thought of this issue specifically for someone who is currently not working. A gap in the past wouldn't worry me as much.

If you are applying to a job and there are other people who are also not working, but haven't been off work as long - would that count against you?

I'm also thinking of situations like stay-at-home moms who take 2+ years off. If they can 'reduce the gap' when they go back into the workforce, I can't help but think that improve their odds of finding a job.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I think it boils down to experience, skills, expertise, and personality; if you have long gaps in your resume then certainly you don't have as much experience because you presumably weren't working during those periods. And yes, a long gap could be a red flag if it points to issues that an employer should know about (if you were in prison for a year, say). But we didn't pay much attention to gaps; we paid attention to applicants' experience, where they worked before and what they did, how they wrote (especially their cover letter, which was a chance for them to go beyond the usual generics you find in resumes), that sort of thing. And our ads said "no phone calls" - if someone called anyway we promptly tossed their resume because in our line of work we needed people with attention to detail and who were willing to follow protocols.

But if someone has a good long career and great qualifications but a few gaps of 2 years or so where they stayed home to raise kids, I don't think it should factor against them if they seem like the right fit for a job. I was lucky enough to have mostly unconventional employers who hired me despite my (lack of) qualifications, so I'm probably a bit more out of the box on this topic than most.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> Well, I think the premise of the article is wrong-headed. You can have a great life in Toronto on $33K (in my opinion), depending on how you define "great life." Living in a suburb and spending a long time commuting sounds just awful to me, hence I don't have that life - ...


Agreed on both counts.




MoneyGal said:


> ... but your sister isn't trying to live in Toronto in the first place, nevermind on $33K (I would speculate), so I'm not sure how describing her situation refutes the premise in any case.


She was working for a charity and he was working as a UoT research assistant so I'd be surprised if they were over $40K at the time.

I was comparing similar desires, priorities and salaries to show that it's not necessarily "... you get a higher overall quality of life in Toronto than you would in K-W." From my point of view - I had a far less stressful lifestyle on less money with far more opportunities to take advantage of what Toronto offers that KW does not than she and her hubby did.


As mentioned - there's a lot of variables with different priorities in play.

Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> Why do ''new canadians'' that open up ethnic restaurants and grocery stores ect always sell food/items/services for below at least 50% off market prices?
> 
> That is awesome to have cheap(i'm sure delicious)food but for the life of me i can't understand why anyone would do business this way.
> 
> Moneygal:you think the ''family''(good bet)Is breaking even selling 6 samsosas for $3? ...


They can be making money. 

If family is pitching in to build the business - there aren't the high costs of paying outside salaries & whatever the employee wants. Then when everyone has become used to how good the food is plus there is a loyal client base - there's no barrier to reasonable increases, better supplier prices as more supplies are bought etc etc.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> There are lots of small houses in Toronto. Probably a higher percentage than in KW.


Sure ... though the person making the commute has already decided a bigger house in the burbs is of a higher priority than a smaller house closer to downtown.




Four Pillars said:


> You really think most people pay $23 for daily parking downtown instead of taking the GO or TTC? That's not even close to reality.


I guess it depends on who you are rubbing shoulders with. I was amazed at the number of people I worked with doing this as they "needed" the flexibility of their car. Me - I rode the TTC for those four years.

In any case - the point is there are a lot more costs involved in commuting than most people seem to be factoring in.


Cheers


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> I guess it depends on who you are rubbing shoulders with. I was amazed at the number of people I worked with doing this as they "needed" the flexibility of their car. Me - I rode the TTC for those four years.
> 
> In any case - the point is there are a lot more costs involved in commuting than most people seem to be factoring in.


This is an example of why I am very, very skeptical about the claims that people "can't afford" middle class life.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> I guess it depends on who you are rubbing shoulders with. I was amazed at the number of people I worked with doing this as they "needed" the flexibility of their car. Me - I rode the TTC for those four years.
> 
> In any case - the point is there are a lot more costs involved in commuting than most people seem to be factoring in.
> Cheers


Owning a car doesn't mean $23/day in parking fees. 

Anyway, I would definitely agree with you that commuting costs can be higher in a big city if you live out in the burbs. People I know who live in the burbs need a second car and pay a lot of $$ in Go train fees plus the excessive commuting time. 

As for quality of life - there is no question in my mind that the big city has no particular advantages over a small city. I'm not sure about living in a tiny town, but I think small cities have a lot to offer than big cities don't and vice versa. The key is to be flexible and take advantage of whatever is available wherever you are.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

Interesting to read about these 20 somethings in that article trying to balance work and life, and treat themselves....sounds like my life now...but my 20 something T.O. experience was polar opposite.
From age 21 to 28, I worked and worked.... at least 60 hours/week. 
If I wasn't working, I was bored stiff. and I always considered Toronto a sort of prison. I couldn't make one friend in that city or find any activities interesting to me, but I loved my job. I always felt like there was something seriously wrong with me until I got out of that city. Work was the connection I felt to Toronto.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Owning a car doesn't mean $23/day in parking fees.


No ... but chasing top salaries downtown & insisting that a Go or TTC schedule is limiting does.

As comparison - Toronto is the only place I've worked where there was no free parking at the office.




Four Pillars said:


> Anyway, I would definitely agree with you that commuting costs can be higher in a big city if you live out in the burbs. People I know who live in the burbs need a second car and pay a lot of $$ in Go train fees plus the excessive commuting time.


No matter where one lives - commuting means higher costs as even if one cuts the costs using some form of transportation or car pooling. It's just a question of how the costs stack up - which with either the additional volume of commuters and/or additional costs (ex. paid office parking instead of free), the big city has less room to be cheaper. 




Four Pillars said:


> As for quality of life - there is no question in my mind that the big city has no particular advantages over a small city. I'm not sure about living in a tiny town, but I think small cities have a lot to offer than big cities don't and vice versa. The key is to be flexible and take advantage of whatever is available wherever you are.


That's where my impression is that when most people say "quality of life" - what they are looking for is built in.

Some of my co-workers in Toronto, just out of university who wanted the night/arts life and had little need for space had a great quality of life splitting the rental of a condo downtown on little money. Those with wife/kids who were hardly ever going downtown plus were spending a ton of time commuting just to have the big house in the burbs, IMO didn't.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

brad said:


> It's funny, people talk about gaps in their resumes as if it's something you really have to avoid, but when I was hiring people we never bothered to ask about gaps in applicants' resumes because we figured it was irrelevant...


I suspect any employer concern about gaps are being driven by how easy it is to hire replacements. Where I've seen concern is where the employer is having a tough time trimming the stack of applications down to something reasonable to interview.


Cheers


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## iherald (Apr 18, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> Last night on the way home from the airport I stopped at T&T and bought "end of day" sushi and prepared Chinese hot food, all for $2.99 per plate (each plate designed to serve 3-4 people); I regularly get $2 bahn mi either on Spadina (walk over on my lunch hour) or in Chinatown east, a short cycle from my home; I can get 6 samsosas for $3 at the foot of my street, and Thursday night I will take my kids for $3 kathi rolls at the fast food Indian place we like on the way home from art class, or we could stop for $2 "bannock hot dogs" at the Native Canadian place that's right next to the art school. Mystery solved?


I think MG is offering an "eat Cheap in Toronto" Tour! I'd sign up!! :encouragement: 50 cent samosas? I'd be all over that (and 500 pounds) if I could find those!


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

http://www.yelp.ca/biz/bj-supermarket-toronto

Note that the first review says you can buy samosas for "a buck a pop." I have no idea what that reviewer is talking about, I've been buying samosas from BJ's for more than 10 years and it's either 2/$1 or 3/$1.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

[slightly edited]



MoneyGal said:


> BJ's for more than 10 years and it's either 2/$1 or 3/$1.


Sounds good to me.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

My, my.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

p.s. I said you were winning all the threads lately. FURTHER EVIDENCE FOR THE CLAIM


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## financialuproar (Jan 26, 2010)

donald said:


> Why do ''new canadians'' that open up ethnic restaurants and grocery stores ect always sell food/items/services for below at least 50% off market prices?That is awesome to have cheap(i'm sure delicious)food but for the life of me i can't understand why anyone would do business this way.Moneygal:you think the ''family''(good bet)Is breaking even selling 6 samsosas for $3?Or native canadians selling hot dogs at 2 bucks a pop?A good bar i would use is mcdonalds which sells single grease burgers for what 5.50.(and they are ****,the lowest market)
> 
> I wonder if it is a inferior complex or what(going off topic)Why do these business do this?undercut themselfs so much in the market place.Do they still do the ''math'' and price in their homeland currency.Always wondered about this(i lived in chicago one summer and use to do the same thing-hit up cheap ethic food,my uncle knew where all the deals were,neighborhood sounds exactly the same.....ate the best hotdogs in my life for a buck back in early 2000's)


This is secondhand from a friend, so take it with a grain of salt, but sometimes these restaurants are a way for organized crime to launder money. They sell cheap food, tell the feds they're selling regular priced food, and presto. You have legitimate money.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Some data points, for what it's worth. I was a young professional living in downtown Toronto. Living alone in a good 1 bedroom apartment, good location next to subway near Bay & Wellesley. And I had some luxuries like occasional entertainment, and even a couple vacations a year. I did not own a car... I used TTC, bicycle, and mostly walking.

My total expenses in 2009 and 2010 were $28,300 and $32,200 giving average annual expenses of $30,250 (that includes everything... rent, food, entertainment, transport)

So my lifestyle *required $36k pre-tax income*. That's pretty close to what this article says! So I would say that you could very comfortable live a good life in Toronto with just $35k income. Assuming you have no kids. You should even be able to afford a few luxuries like trips and flights.

If anyone wishes further data I can give breakdown of expenses by category such as food, rent, etc.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

But if you're using your entire after-tax income on living expenses, you're not saving anythign for retirement, and I think it's important to start saving for retirement as soon as you start working.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Fu-Maybe for a small majority and i agree restaurants can be used but i find it a stretch the sinaloa cartel wastes times having a guy selling 1 dollar samsosas?Orangized crime always has officials(of every level on the books(i'd argue it is more likely high end restaurants then these banana stands)Think business like snc lavlin lol(not the sinolas but you get my drift)I doubt pedro is selling MG and her kids food after soccer practice and is moving coke and washing money in the back room.But i know what your saying.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> ... Maybe for a small majority and i agree restaurants can be used but i find it a stretch the sinaloa cartel wastes times having a guy selling 1 dollar samsosas?
> 
> Orangized crime always has officials(of every level on the books(i'd argue it is more likely high end restaurants then these banana stands)Think business like snc lavlin lol(not the sinolas but you get my drift)I doubt pedro is selling MG and her kids food after soccer practice and is moving coke and washing money in the back room.But i know what your saying.


Actually - I'd think a high end restaurant would limit the options. More customers would pay with a credit card which means only the costs such as salaries, food spoilage etc. could be used to wash the money.

If it's a small store front with low prices so that most transactions are cash - then there's all the sources of the high end restaurant plus the ability to make up fictional customers who "paid cash".


Cheers


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Why has no one mentioned car washes yet...who else watches Breaking Bad?


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