# Shipping boxes between Canada/US



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm trying to move personal stuff from the US to Canada and looking for ideas how to do this in a cost effective way. These aren't huge items: when packed, everything will either be the size of suitcase luggage, or a smaller box such as a case of wine from the liquor store. Total stuff is roughly 6 suitcases worth or 12 liquor store boxes (half the package size).

I've shipped items like this domestically with Canada Post before and it wasn't too expensive, only about $30 per box to mail it. So if this was being done domestically it would only cost about $30 x 12 = $360. However, now I need to move it across the border so there are additional costs as well as customs inspection.

I could transport them all myself by driving, but I'd have to rent a car. This is peak season and a cross-border car rental costs approx $300/day. For a 3 day rental, plus gas, that's around $1,000. I can look at some tricks to reduce this cost (switch cars near the border for example) but this also adds additional hassle.

Does anyone have ideas on how to ship items cross-border? Some options I'm looking at are:

- Canada Post / US Postal Service
- airline freight services (e.g. Air Canada Cargo, Alaska Cargo)
- renting a car and driving with the stuff


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I'd suggest packing the stuff in a cartage firm standard size carton from, for example Allied or United Van Lines and see if they will ship it on one of their runs, assuming you don't have a time constraint. Alternatively, check into Greyhound Package Express http://www.shipgreyhound.ca/Style Library/Greyhound Documents/PDF/en-ca/International.pdf I've not shipped personal goods via USPS/CP so can't comment.

You have to declare summary of contents, e.g. personal goods, and say it is all over 6 months old, to avoid declarations of importation, etc, etc, etc. Google for tips on inventory declarations.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks AltaRed. I don't have any time constraint, so I'm happy with slow shipping.

That's an interesting idea about shipping with Allied, United Van Lines, or Greyhound. I will look into all of those to get some pricing.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The cartage firms may not have interest in just a few boxes but one never knows. 

When I was single status in Alaska almost 20 years ago, I had rented a furnished townhouse. When I left, I had 4 or 5 cartons plus a bike. It was a cartage firm that handled it but they air freighted to the account of my employer back to Calgary. I don't remember the details.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Yeah, I remember Greyhound shipping used to be more economical than Canada Post for sending Christmas presents. Don't know what their size/weight limitations are, or how the service is with the restructuring of Greyhound. Theoretically if you are moving to Canada there should be no customs on personal effects related to the move. Goods will have to be picked up at a Greyhound Terminal, so check to see how long they will hold them, and if someone else can do it for you. (Though if you address it to that person, that should be enough.)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks OhGreatGuru, I will look into Greyhound and how long the items are held.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I'm trying to move personal stuff from the US to Canada and looking for ideas how to do this in a cost effective way ... I've shipped items like this domestically with Canada Post before and it wasn't too expensive ... However, now I need to move it across the border so there are additional costs as well as customs inspection ...


Are you sure that you aren't mistaking commercial shipping/inspection fees with personal ones?
CBSA has a program for personal goods being shipped cross border. I would expect that the USPS would participate in the program.
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/courier/lvs-efv/menu-eng.html
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d6/d6-2-6-eng.html


IIRC, what I left behind in LA was shipped to me in Canada by USPS for something like $10.





james4beach said:


> ... I could transport them all myself by driving, but I'd have to rent a car. This is peak season and a cross-border car rental costs approx $300/day.


Not sure what your timeline is like but there is also car delivery. This is a Canadian site but maybe there is a US equivalent.
http://hittheroad.ca/
http://canadadriveaway.com/cda/drivers.html


Cheers


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I don't know where you are getting $100 a day for a rental from. I also don't know why you would talk about renting a car. 
https://www.uhaul.com/Truck-Rentals/Cargo-Van/

That's the easiest way to do it with the least hassle. Cost is measured not only in dollars and cents. Any other method may cost less money but will add more hassle.


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## richno (Aug 15, 2016)

+1 for Greyhound... they’ve been a good middle-of-the-road shipper for me in the past - pretty quick anD not too expensive. 

I think with recent changes they do not do courier pick-up or drop-off, but only do station-to-station shipping now - i.e., you have to drop off and pick up your packages from a station. 

R


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Obviously, it depends on where James is shipping too. Can't use Greyhound if he is shipping to western Canada where Greyhound no longer exists. http://www.shipgreyhound.ca/c/pages/Home.aspx


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I don't know where you are getting $100 a day for a rental from. I also don't know why you would talk about renting a car.
> https://www.uhaul.com/Truck-Rentals/Cargo-Van/ ...


This link provided shows that the $100 a day car rental is likely cheaper than what is available, using Seattle WA as the pickup and Vancouver BC as the drop off. 

Over the course of a week, zero cargo vans are listed as available, for this one way run.

Same dates but switching to in town (i.e. Seattle pickup and drop off) shows cargo vans available at $19.95 plus $$0.89 a mile. Switching a Seattle pickup and Tacoma drop off, the rate climbs to $134 with forty miles included.

Ten foot trucks are available for a Seattle WA pickup and Vancouver BC dropoff but are for $286 with 166 miles. It seems that two days are included in the truck rental so it looks like if one uses two days, it is $143 a day plus taxes and possibly fees.




Longtimeago said:


> ... That's the easiest way to do it with the least hassle.


And it seems ... more expensive than a $100 car rental.


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My car rental estimate was based on looking up pricing between somewhere relatively close to Seattle, to either Vancouver or Calgary (either would work as a destination), including all fees such as the one way fee. It adds up to a lot. Prices fluctuate though so I will check it again.

I don't want to deal with a big bulky truck, for this kind of distance which might be through middle-of-nowhere places like northern Washington or Idaho. Beautiful areas, but I'm not doing that with a cargo truck. Plus, I don't have that much stuff... I can fit everything into a small passenger car.

Eclectic12 do you recall what kind of shipping was only $10 with USPS?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

IIRC it was the lowest cost/slowest delivery available. 

Your boxes will likely be more as the box wasn't that big plus the items weren't heavy.


Cheers


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> My car rental estimate was based on looking up pricing between somewhere relatively close to Seattle, to either Vancouver or Calgary (either would work as a destination), including all fees such as the one way fee. It adds up to a lot. Prices fluctuate though so I will check it again.
> 
> I don't want to deal with a big bulky truck, for this kind of distance which might be through middle-of-nowhere places like northern Washington or Idaho. Beautiful areas, but I'm not doing that with a cargo truck. Plus, I don't have that much stuff... I can fit everything into a small passenger car.
> 
> Eclectic12 do you recall what kind of shipping was only $10 with USPS?


Well you started off comparing $300 in postage to $1000 total if you rented a car. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. You leave out as much information as you provide as well.

Do you just want the goods to go from A to B or do you want the goods and yourself to go from A to B? If you want yourself to go as well, you cannot compare postage for the goods alone to anything since you can't post yourself. Well not easily and legally anyway. LOL

I don't know what you mean by a 'big bulky truck'. A van or 10 ft. cube truck (based on a van chasis) is no harder to drive than a car. Maybe you need to look at the driving compartment on a van to see it is just as comfortable as any car. 

In any case, the question of the goods alone or the goods and yourself makes a big difference to relevant answers. I can't see any sense to renting a car or a van if in fact all you want is the goods to get to B, without YOU.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> This link provided shows that the $100 a day car rental is likely cheaper than what is available, using Seattle WA as the pickup and Vancouver BC as the drop off.
> 
> Over the course of a week, zero cargo vans are listed as available, for this one way run.
> 
> ...


Eclectic12, the comparison was not a $100 per day car to $286 for a cube van. James4beach was suggesting a $1000 total cost for a car with drop-off etc., talking about a 'high season pricing', gas, presumably motel/hotel etc. just to deliver the goods. As in my post to him above, what about him? Does he need to be 'shipped' also or only the goods? His $1000 estimate which is then 'dismissed' as too expensive simply doesn't make any sense unless he has to get to B as well as the goods and he is adding in all the associated costs on top of the car rental of $100 itself. Only then you can start looking at car vs. van or cube van to compare.

You may not be aware, but one way UHaul or Budget or whatever, rentals are the poor man's RV road trip choice quite often. You can rent a Uhaul van/cube, throw in a sleeping bag and off you go. Many young travellers do this every summer as a way to cross N. America quite cheaply. No motels/ hotels and if they make a stop at Walmart to pick up a few camping items for cooking etc. it gives them almost as much as an RV does. What's more, they can easily 'stealth camp' along the way as seeing a Uhaul van parked somewhere elicits no real curiosity. One way Uhaul are the norm and cost less for the drop off than a one way car rental does. Another major factor for these young travellers is that you only need to be 18 to rent a 'cargo van' whereas most car rentals companies require you to be 25 to rent a car. Go figure.

Anyway, my point is that until we know just what has to get from A to B, goods or goods and a body, what to compare remains an unknown.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Regarding the 'what about me', the answer is that it's not straightforward. If I drive this, it would have to be for fun and the view (which is a good reason) but it's not because I need to transport myself. The reason is that even if I accompanied the goods, I'd probably have to fly and backtrack due to business anyway. Flying is going to happen either way.

A sleeping bag and roughing it while I haul things does not appeal to me, personally. Nor do I want to drive a cube van. I've done it before, and they're not as pleasant to drive as regular cars. Visibility and handling are both limited compared to a regular car. So it's not for me... if I'm going to drive the packages,
1) it's got to be in a regular car, which I prefer
2) this part of the trip would be purely for fun, because I'm zipping back & forth by plane anyway

But if the cost of the car rental alone is competitive with package shipping, that's a trip I'd be happy to make if it looks fun... and I'd consider the costs of meals & hotels a different matter, because that would just be vacation fun.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Eclectic12, the comparison was not a $100 per day car to $286 for a cube van ... Anyway, my point is that until we know just what has to get from A to B, goods or goods and a body, what to compare remains an unknown.


Wow ... all of that came out of the two liner you posted? :rolleyes2:
I guess you figure I'm a mind reader. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I'm trying to move personal stuff from the US to Canada and looking for ideas how to do this in a cost effective way. These aren't huge items: when packed, everything will either be the size of suitcase luggage, or a smaller box such as a case of wine from the liquor store. Total stuff is roughly 6 suitcases worth or 12 liquor store boxes (half the package size).
> 
> I've shipped items like this domestically with Canada Post before and it wasn't too expensive, only about $30 per box to mail it. So if this was being done domestically it would only cost about $30 x 12 = $360. However, now I need to move it across the border so there are additional costs as well as customs inspection.
> 
> ...


Well what is the question you actually want to ask about or need help figuring out an answer for? Or is there actually any question at all?

You started out saying you want a cost effective way to ship the goods. You did not say you wanted a cost effective way to take a drive with the goods that would be competitive with just shipping the goods by post.

You now write, "it's not that straightforward" and "if the cost of the car rental alone is competitive with package shipping, that's a trip I'd be happy to make if it looks fun". As you have yourself shown in your OP, there is no competitive comparison to be made between postage and a car rental. End of story unless you decide to ignore the cost difference and assign a value to the 'fun' of driving the goods, that exceeds the difference in price.

It seems to me you are just wasting our time here james4beach unless you want input on how to justify that cost difference to yourself.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Longtimeago said:


> Well what is the question you actually want to ask about or need help figuring out an answer for? Or is there actually any question at all?


The question was, what's the most cost effective way to ship the goods cross-border?



Longtimeago said:


> As you have yourself shown in your OP, there is no competitive comparison to be made between postage and a car rental.


You are incorrect -- this has not been shown. I did not price the postage from the US, I was just giving an example of prior domestic shipping experience and its cost. I don't know the cost of postage from the US (this isn't something I've priced out yet) including all customs costs and hassles. Therefore, I can't assume that it's cheaper to use post (such as USPS) rather than renting a car.

One reason for asking for thoughts from others, even if I suspect that mailing is cheaper than driving (still not known for certain) is that someone who's done all this before might have encountered other important aspects that are not obvious. Or they might have had a great experience using method X.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I'm trying to move personal stuff from the US to Canada and looking for ideas how to do this in a cost effective way. These aren't huge items: when packed, everything will either be the size of suitcase luggage, or a smaller box such as a case of wine from the liquor store. Total stuff is roughly 6 suitcases worth or 12 liquor store boxes (half the package size).


First are you trying to ship liquor because that is a whole other can of worms. I did it from Europe using a liquor licence but it needs to be separate and there's a lot more paperwork and fees involved

For 6 suitcases of personal effects I would strap it all to a pallet and contact a freight/logistics carrier that does international in your area. You'll need a detailed list of everything for customs (you can't just ship alcohol mixed in there)

We used Day & Ross Freight for my pallet from Canada and they handed off to R&L Carriers in the US. I would start with a US freight company or maybe something like uShip or another logistics broker

I'm dealing with the same thing now we'll see if I end up with the same R&L or another carrier this time


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s, there is no liquor. I was just using the liquor store (wine box) example to illustrate the size I'm working with. As a poor student, I used to use free boxes from the liquor store for my moving.

The freight and logistics carrier sounds like a good idea. I once used ABF Freight, which went well, but they ship much larger amounts than what I have here. You might want to look into ABF and U-Pack yourself. If you're moving a full apartment or house worth of stuff, I think it's an attractive option.

I'm moving more like 1/4 of a small apartment


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yea I live in a dorm style suite now. I shipped a vehicle load of stuff here because I rode a motorbike. They put it all into a large cardboard box on a pallet so it becomes a single item for a forklift to load. Who knows how many times it had to switch trucks

I have the reverse process now so we'll see what they do. I suspect they will take my stuff and build a pallet back at their warehouse and then ship it out. The benefit is a single piece to track rather than 6 pieces etc


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I remember now that my stuff in Alaska was put in one big box on a pallet for shipment. Thanks for refreshing my mind.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s, thanks, this might be very similar to my situation.

I just phoned Day & Ross to get some info. As you mentioned, they said when starting from the US, I should contact their partner: RL Carriers.

They said I will also need to find a "customs broker" for the cross border customs stuff. How did that work in your previous move down south? How would I go about finding a broker or agent?


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

I don't really understand the need to ship 6+- suitcase-sized amount of goods at all. You say you're travelling back and forth for a bit. Aren't you staying at your apt when you're back there? If not, and you don't need these goods, then I'd just put them in storage. When you make that *final *trip north, you then rent your car, load it with the goods and drive it.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> They said I will also need to find a "customs broker" for the cross border customs stuff. How did that work in your previous move down south? How would I go about finding a broker or agent?


We didn't use one. My work has logistics people for that but it really didn't look overly complicated. I think all they really do is provide me the proper forms to fill out like "CBP Form 3299 Declaration for free entry of unaccompanied articles" (contact info, residency status, declarations, inventory list and values etc) This is for the US though, you would need the Canadian version.

This is what my logistics gurus wrote on the order to Day & Ross:

DO NOT HIRE A CUSTOMS BROKER

IMPORT CUSTOMS CLEARANCE TO BE DIRECTED TO THE CUSTOMS BROKER AS DESIGNATED BY THE CONSIGNOR THE CARRIER IS TO TAKE NO CUSTOMS CLEARANCE ACTIONS EXCEPT THOSE DIRECTED BY THE CONSIGNOR OR THE DESIGNATED CUSTOMS 

BROKER IS (insert MY contact info here)

They put ME as the broker.. so Day & Ross emailed me about this and I just forwarded them to my logistics gurus. It probably isn't very complicated though. I've read online that you can broker your own online shipments to avoid the notorious UPS/FEDEX brokerage fee scams as well. I imagine all they did was provide the very forms that I'd filled out myself

Kinda like when I crossed into Africa with my motorbike and all kinds of people wanted to be my "broker". I got through myself just fine. I think what the "brokers" do is show you who to talk to and what forms you need to have (so you don't stand in line unprepared) I'd already found the forms online myself and filled them at home and managed to find who to give them to just fine.

Note that when you cross into Canada for good you should declare unaccompanied goods. It's just a tick on the airport form and they might ask for a copy of the inventory list or forms. I imagine most land border agents forget to ask this and most air travelers forget they have unaccompanied goods anyways. It's really not that strict unless they flag you as suspicious.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Retired Peasant said:


> I don't really understand the need to ship 6+- suitcase-sized amount of goods at all. You say you're travelling back and forth for a bit. Aren't you staying at your apt when you're back there? If not, and you don't need these goods, then I'd just put them in storage. When you make that *final *trip north, you then rent your car, load it with the goods and drive it.


The back and forth trips are slowing down, and this will be the final one (give or take one). It's true that I could put some things in storage though. I'd rather just move all the stuff now, ideally, but using storage is definitely a good option -- thanks for the idea.

Why not rent the car and load it, drive north? The one way rentals are insanely expensive at this peak season, around $200 per day. Yes, that's whether it's regular Enterprise-like places or U-Haul with insurance costs. And I really don't want to drive this entire distance (2500 km) alone. This is half the span of the continent. My health insurance situation also isn't solid, because at that time I won't be with the US employer any more and not fully eligible for provincial healthcare. A long distance road trip in this scenario is not ideal.

With the distance, and stops/overnights driving alone, the rental + accommodation costs for a 6 day road trip would likely be over $2,000. I suppose that still is within the realm of possibility but at that price, I really would be better off flying back and forth an extra time to pick up the remaining items from storage, as you mentioned.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> The back and forth trips are slowing down, and this will be the final one (give or take one). It's true that I could put some things in storage though. I'd rather just move all the stuff now, ideally, but using storage is definitely a good option -- thanks for the idea.
> 
> Why not rent the car and load it, drive north? The one way rentals are insanely expensive at this peak season, around $200 per day. Yes, that's whether it's regular Enterprise-like places or U-Haul with insurance costs. And I really don't want to drive this entire distance (2500 km) alone. This is half the span of the continent. My health insurance situation also isn't solid, because at that time I won't be with the US employer any more and not fully eligible for provincial healthcare. A long distance road trip in this scenario is not ideal.
> 
> With the distance, and stops/overnights driving alone, the rental + accommodation costs for a 6 day road trip would likely be over $2,000. I suppose that still is within the realm of possibility but at that price, I really would be better off flying back and forth an extra time to pick up the remaining items from storage, as you mentioned.


It just seems to me james4beach that you really are 'making a meal of it' as the saying goes. I understand cost is a factor but cost is not just about money. It is only my personal opinion but I tend to go with the SIMPLEST answer whenever possible, regardless of the financial cost. You seem to be in the realm of 'paralysis by analysis' with this. 

Regarding medical cover. I do not know the rules of each and every provincial health service but I do know that in at least some, you will have NO coverage at all rather than being 'not fully eligible'. You're either eligible or you are not dependent on your legal place of residence. If your coverage in your legal place of residence will not cover you, then you need travel medical insurance just like any traveller who is going to return to point A.

When moving from one country to another, unlike a traveller who is just travelling for a period of time and then returning 'home', you need a different kind of insurance entirely. That is relocation medical insurance or whatever other name a particular insurance company chooses to use for it.

When returning to Canada from the UK for example, I needed to get 3 months coverage to cover the period of time between leaving coverage in the UK and becoming eligible for coverage in BC. BC has a (up to) 90 day wait period to become eligible for their provincial coverage. Another province might have a 6 month period before coverage will apply. You will need that on your final return. Short visits at other times will require travel insurance unless your coverage in the USA covers it. 

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/...d-enrolment/how-to-enrol/coverage-wait-period

https://www.insurdinary.ca/everythi...e-for-canadian-citizens-returning-to-ontario/


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I know a number of people who maintain mail boxes and have parcel drop services in the US. They have things shipped to a border town. UPS or some other firm holds them for an extremely low service fee. A car enthusiast in the Vancouver area that we know buys all of his auto parts in the US and has them shipped to the drop off location. Even with exchange etc, he figures he gets them for half or less what he would pay in Canada. 

Shipping costs can be much less in the US. MY BIL in Vancouver is a retired transportation co-ordinator. A few years ago he purchased a car on line from New York State. The cost to have it shipped to Vancouver was $1600. The cost to have it shipped white glove to Bellingham was under $700. He had it shipped to Bellingham. 

Could you have your boxes shipped to a border location. Then drive down and pick them up-either in your car or a rental van?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> I know a number of people who maintain mail boxes and have parcel drop services in the US. They have things shipped to a border town. UPS or some other firm holds them for an extremely low service fee. A car enthusiast in the Vancouver area that we know buys all of his auto parts in the US and has them shipped to the drop off location. Even with exchange etc, he figures he gets them for half or less what he would pay in Canada.
> ...
> *Could you have your boxes shipped to a border location*. Then drive down and pick them up-either in your car or a rental van?


Oh wow, now this is a new angle that sounds very promising and I had not considered this before! Let me see if I understood what you wrote correctly:

Domestically, within US, get the boxes shipped (and held) at a depot in a city just south of the border. Then, when I am next at my Canadian location I can dip south to retrieve the items and then accompany them back into Canada. Are we talking about the same thing?

I like this! It solves a number of logistical problems for me. I'll inquire with UPS and Fedex about whether they can receive packages (their address, not mine) and store them for a length of time. Does anyone know of other US services that can do this kind of thing?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes. There a quite a few of these places in BC/Washington State border towns.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> Yes. There a quite a few of these places in BC/Washington State border towns.


Neat. I looked up a shopping/border delivery web site and found quite a few parcel service locations within about an hour of where I'll be in Canada.

I presume I'll get quite a few questions with my car full of boxes as I drive back into Canada, but I'll have a full inventory list of all the contents and explain they are personal effects as I move out of the US. Obviously at that point I'd fill the appropriate paperwork for Canada customs.

Is there a potential problem with a doing a fast day-trip? Leaving Canada with an empty car, returning 2 hours later with a car packed absolutely full of boxes.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

NO idea whatsoever. But, the border agents are very reasonable. Besides, it should become apparent to them on inspection that these are presumably used personal items. Not as though you are bringing all kinds of new, packaged product across the line. Next time you fly back to Canada take time to go into the CBSA office at the airport and ask. They might be able to provide the info you want.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> ... I presume I'll get quite a few questions with my car full of boxes as I drive back into Canada, but I'll have a full inventory list of all the contents and explain they are personal effects as I move out of the US. Obviously at that point I'd fill the appropriate paperwork for Canada customs ...


Where the boxes are visible ... you will stand out.




ian said:


> james4beach said:
> 
> 
> > ... Is there a potential problem with a doing a fast day-trip? Leaving Canada with an empty car, returning 2 hours later with a car packed absolutely full of boxes.
> ...


I would expect a bit of a delay for the extra questions, reviewing the inventory and possibly random checking some boxes to be sure they do look used instead of just out of the wrapping. 

I suppose if you get one who is having a bad day, it might take more time but as long as you stay calm, are sympathetic and aren't belligerent, I woudn't expect anything major.



Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I got useful info from CBSA today, phoning their Winnipeg number (reached a friendly agent right away). I'll share the info I learned:

- Some couriers aren't set up for handling customs for personal effects and it varies a lot between couriers. With some couriers, you'll have to show up at a Canadian airport and clear the goods yourself. Other couriers won't even do it, due to extra steps.

- US Postal Service (USPS) integrates well with CBSA, especially for low value personal goods. (This likely is the program Eclectic12 described). The agent said that if I send low value personal goods, CBSA will read the American paperwork, might issue some taxes which will be C.O.D. via Canada Post.

- No duties for low value stuff. For "used personal items" coming unaccompanied by post, there will be some tax to pay, but it's obviously very minor as its a % of the garage sale value of the low item stuff. It all has to do with the $ value of the things.

- Bringing the stuff across by car is about the same story. Still taxes to pay (depending on length of absence from Canada), still show inventory description. From a customs perspective the CBSA agent said neither way is smoother than the other.


This shows that the ideal shipping method from US to Canada depends very much on what kind of stuff is being sent. And things vary a lot by courier (e.g. FedEx won't do personal effects). The US Postal Service seems like a good fit for my purpose because they happen to integrate well with CBSA, when it comes to low value personal goods.

I also located a US parcel storage facility where I can ship to, so it's very doable to mail my things to a place near the border, then go pick them up. Thanks ian for this idea. This gives me two very sensible looking solutions.


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

james4beach said:


> Is there a potential problem with a doing a fast day-trip? Leaving Canada with an empty car, returning 2 hours later with a car packed absolutely full of boxes.


Here is my story of crossing the border with a U-haul trailer full of used household goods:

My brother in Minneapolis was moving and had excess furniture that he was willing to give to my sister in Thunder Bay. It's about a 6-hour drive.
My sister rented the the trailer in Tbay and I tagged along to help. 
Crossing the border on the return trip, my sister told the agent the truth about the trailer -- that it was full of used furniture given to her by her brother. 
"What's the value?" the agent asked.
This flummoxed my sister. She had paid nothing for the furniture, so she finally said "Nothing."
The agent insisted: "It has to be worth something!" 
He had us pull over while they examined the trailer. After a few minutes, he cleared things up: It was pretty decent furniture, he said -- which was true -- but clearly used. Everything has a value, he said, so we simply needed to supply a number.
I suggested $500. 
"Fine," the agent said. "Have a nice day."
We departed, having paid no duty or tax.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

^+1

1. Everyone has a personal exemption of $750 or something like that.

2. Agents hate paperwork, but need to fill in the blank on used personal goods.

3. Make the agent's day by picking a number under the personal exemption limit.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

When my spouse was coming back from the US from a mid-length work contract. My brother was giving him all the baby stuff they were done with. There was a whole carload of used designer clothing, baby gear, etc. We didn’t have a baby yet. When crossing the border, the agent asked how much he was declaring. My spouse said nothing cause it was all used items, Again, they asked for the value, and my spouse replied ‘I have no idea, I don’t have any children, and not even sure I want them but my wife told me to bring this stuff home from the in laws. The value is zero to me, as I don’t care if you take it, it would do me a favour’

The agent just waved him him thru.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips above. At least for my test shipment, this went pretty smoothly and I'll share the details in case it helps others:

Using the US Postal Service, I sent a large box of clothes & personal goods to Canada, several kg, using what they call "Priority Mail International". On the USPS customs declaration (which USPS electronically sends to CBSA) I wrote that the contents were "used personal items", with a breakdown of specifics such as "used men's shirts, used tools". This is a US form supplied by the USPS; I did not fill any Canadian govt paperwork for the shipment.

The low value package did not have any duties or taxes charged. Also to my surprise, the USPS tracking code transferred to Canada Post, so it can be traced at each spot in both US & Canada, at the border, and all the way to home delivery. The whole box got delivered cross border in just 4 business days.

The USPS is phasing out their inexpensive tier of international package delivery. They now require "Priority Mail" level of service once the package exceeds 4 lbs. This will soon be reduced to just 1lb meaning that just about any large package will have to be Priority Mail. This raises the cost, but gives tracking. Many years ago, someone would have been able to mail a package like this with a much less expensive tier of service.

Though the cost is pretty high (60 USD for a 7 lb box) I still think this is good value compared to other cross-border moving alternatives. I'm going to now start sending bigger boxes. For example, a 15 lb box would cost 80 USD.

I must say that I'm impressed with both USPS and Canada Post in this process. There clearly has been a good integration between USPS, CBSA, and Canada Post.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Thanks for all the tips above. At least for my test shipment, this went pretty smoothly and I'll share the details in case it helps others:
> 
> Using the US Postal Service, I sent a large box of clothes & personal goods to Canada, several kg, using what they call "Priority Mail International". On the USPS customs declaration (which USPS electronically sends to CBSA) I wrote that the contents were "used personal items", with a breakdown of specifics such as "used men's shirts, used tools". This is a US form supplied by the USPS; I did not fill any Canadian govt paperwork for the shipment.
> 
> ...


It's a bit late in the day but I am wondering what it is that you feel you need to send at a cost of $80 per box. I have moved countries multiple times and only once did I bother to move enough goods to not have them fit in one suitcase or less. I have a theory about 'possessions' and whether we own them or they own us if you know what I mean. For example, I have always had bookshelves full of books everywhere I have lived. I have also had a decent amount of tools everywhere. But when moving, I have made myself discard all of them each time. 

I'm glad your test shipment went well but perhaps before sending any more, you might want to consider what do you or do you need REALLY need to hang on to. For example, I can understand wanting to keep a family photo album but an adjustable wrench that you could pick up a replacement for at just about any garage sale for $1? Nor is it just about the dollar savings for shipping, it's also about 'possessing'.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

LTA, James is a pretty bright fellow. He obviously knows about efficiency and economy and is NOT about to ship stuff that costs anything close to the residual value of the goods. Clearly, an inventory clear out is always good when one moves, e.g. I ruthlessly did that with every move, but let's give James a bit of credit for common sense. It is his decision whether he ships 100 lbs, or 1000 lbs. He'll learn from the experience as well. The value/weight (and/or volume) ratio is one of the key indicators for making a call on shipping vs discarding.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for the reminders and you're right. I agree, it's good to clear out and throw away as much as possible. However there are some items (such as clothing) which can be gruelling to replace.

I shipped my winter boots and jackets back to Canada. While the market value for these is low ... just tens of dollars ... the time and effort to replace them is significant. I hate going clothes shopping and could easily spend _days_ trying to find comfortable footwear or outer wear that I like. So while the material value is low, the time & effort for replacement is high.

So one has to consider not only the replacement $ value but also the replacement time and effort (since time is $).

e.g. I am disposing of all kitchenware (heavy stuff), books, and generic tools and equipment. But I am shipping certain specialized equipment, for example stereo speakers that I really enjoy because I can't simply walk into a store, pay $, and replace them with something that please me.

I do appreciate these reminders though. I'm trying to minimize the shipping.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> It's a bit late in the day but I am wondering what it is that you feel you need to send at a cost of $80 per box. I have moved countries multiple times and only once did I bother to move enough goods to not have them fit in one suitcase or less. ...


It's human nature (for most of us). See George Carlin's routine on "Stuff". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It is all about the replacement value of items that you do not wish to part with for whatever reason.

I very much doubt whether James needs any advice, criticism, or direction in his decision making process.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OhGreatGuru said:


> It's human nature (for most of us). See George Carlin's routine on "Stuff". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac


I can recall that from back in the day. I was always a big George Carlin fan. As for 'stuff', yup it is a real issue for some people and thus my pet theory re 'possessions' and which owns which. Maybe some comedian will come up with a routine on 'possessions' to rivals Carlin's 'stuff' routine. 

As for not giving james4beach credit for figuring it out, well, the odds are actually against any individual being able to figure it out without some help or reminding. Just look at the storage locker industry's history. https://www.curbed.com/2018/3/27/17168088/cheap-storage-warehouse-self-storage-real-estate And that of course does not include all the garages full of 'stuff' a lot of people have. Call me weird but I always thought a garage was for keeping your car in. Now that's a thought for people to struggle with. LOL


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Anyone familiar with the fictional character, Jack Reacher? He is the hero in a whole series of books by the author Lee Child. Forget the movie with Tom Cruise playing the part of Jack Reacher. There has never been a more blatant case of mis-casting of a part but that is a whole other story.

Jack Reacher lives his life moving around the USA mostly as the whim takes him. He's an ex military policeman with a resulting government pension. He lives with nothing other than the clothes on his back and a toothbrush in his pocket (along with some , some cash, a wallet, credit card, etc.). Not even a small bag to carry 'stuff' in. The epitomy of the concept of freedom from 'possessions'. He stays in motels, buys new underwear or a shirt or pants every few days and somehow always seem to end up in trouble even though he isn't looking for it.

Given that 100 million of his books have been sold, there must be a reason. I think for many people it is not just the 'action' that goes on but the way Reacher lives his life so minimally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Reacher


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Here's my experience report. It might help others trying to do the same thing.

In the end I was very happy with the government (US Postal Service --> Canada Post) service. It was a smooth process, and more cost effective than any courier service I compared to. The USPS (government service) does a good job interfacing with Canada Post. They handle customs at the border better than I expected. The tracking codes transfer perfectly between both government postal services.

I took the advice in this thread to minimize shipping, and threw out tons of stuff. Here are the final stats:

Total weight 165 lbs
7 boxes from US to Canada [total 90 lbs], cost 527 USD
2 checked suitcases on flight [total 75 lbs], cost 80 USD
*Total cost: 607 USD*

There are some methods that could have reduced the shipping cost. Larger unit bulk shipments would have been less expensive, and I could have even done that with the same USPS method just by packing larger boxes. Another method would have been to increase the number of checked suitcases on the flight. As you can see from the above stats, suitcases checked on flights are very cheap per unit weight.

However, there are practical concerns that get in the way. Larger boxes are, of course, heavy and difficult to deal with. You need to hire additional movers ($) to move those, whereas I can carry smaller boxes myself. I did not want to injure myself and prefer the method of smaller boxes. This also helps with organization since smaller boxes let me clearly mark what's in each one and I can easily transport them as needed.

As for checked suitcases, after lenghty discussions with the airlines including agents at the airport, I learned that they can't assure the plane will have enough space. Theoretically one can check 4 or 5 suitcases. But what happens if the plane's cargo is full? Having my shipment rejected at the airport -- and getting stuck with suitcases at the last moment -- was a risk I could not take. Therefore, I kept the baggage to 2 suitcases which seemed guaranteed. This was a small prop plane, which is why I kept the number low. If I was flying on a regular jet I might try 3 or 4 checked bags.

Checked bags are also subjected to a lot of torture, so there's concern about breaking things. Looking at the condition my boxes arrived in, I would guess that the USPS/Canada Post boxes are treated pretty well. Most of them looked pristine on arrival. A couple had minimal damage into the cardboard.

Note that with the total 165 lb of stuff, you could theoretically move this entirely with checked airline baggage in 4 checked bags, staying under the 50 lb limit. This is assuming you are confident that the airline will accept all 4 bags. On my route this would have cost 300 USD which would have saved money.


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