# Colin Kaepernick Won't Stand For National Anthem



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ck-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem

He said it is in protest of the treatment of colour people in the US and he can't stand for a flag that does this. First of all he probably doesn't realize that 90 percent of the black people are killed by other black people and a lot more white people are shot by police then black people in the US. Also poor people are of all colours including black.

That aside by not standing up for your anthem to me says you think your country stinks in the world. Sure you could sit for a moment in protest targeting a certain subject but you have to know every country has its problems. In Canada I wouldn't sit out the anthem just because I don't like Justin's stance on immigration, I would need a whole lot more telling me my country was going downhill before I would do that.

If every player decided to do this then maybe they need to move to some other country in the world. When you look around there are not a lot of better countries out there.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Not to defend the NFL, but the league has lots of players including lots of low IQ players so once in a while stuff like this happens (or a lot worse).


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

A lot of fans are pretty mad at him in San Fransisco and he hasn't played well so this certainly doesn't help him.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

To raise another question - why is the national anthem played at 'non-international' (and I'll include MLB/NBA/NHL in my loose definition of this category) sporting events?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I heard a discussion (last year?) on CBC regarding playing the anthem at every hockey game. The argument was made that it overexposes and 'degrades' its significance and it should be reserved for special events. I thought the argument had merit.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I think anthems are played at every sports event in N America to stick it to the British. Their anthem is so awful that the Brits are too embarrassed to play it. That's why they deliberately avoid winning Olympic events.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

mordko said:


> I think anthems are played at every sports event in N America to stick it to the British. Their anthem is so awful that the Brits are too embarrassed to play it. That's why they deliberately avoid winning Olympic events.


I appreciate the theory, but someone should have really told the Brits about this before Rio as they won the 2nd most golds.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Oh, well... Exceptions prove the rule.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don't know why athletes and celebrities believe their opinion is so important to everyone else that it requires public flaunting.

What do I care what an NFL player or movie actor, or a movie actor portraying an NFL player, thinks about anything ?

I remember Charlie Sheen saying one time about his role in Navy Seals, that he had to train just like them and was like one of them.

Say what little self absorbed Charlie ? You are pretending you are a Navy Seal. You aren't actually one of their comrades.

Same goes for liberals as well...George Clooney for President. What does Lindsay Lohan think ?.........who cares.

One of the Canadian Tenors made an idiot of himself with his "word changes" and little sign.

I have little tolerance for self absorbed pretzel sticks who think they know everything because they have followers on Twitter.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Colin is right-the police in the USA shoot very few females of any race-99.9% of the people they kill are guys-MENS LIVES MATTER! MENS LIVES MATTER!


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Your right sags and what a horrible life Colin has in the US making millions just to throw a ball.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Here is what the media left out on Colin Kaepernick's speech.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...t-report-here-ignored-part-kaepernicks-speech

It seems negative Hillary talk was ignored.


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

Matt Walsh summed up Kaepernick pefectly: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-colin-kaepernick-youre-not-oppressed-youre-spoiled/

Be forewarned, Walsh is a bold Conservative who holds nothing back, but he makes A LOT of valid points!

Excerpt:



> One thing is for sure: You didn’t seem too worried about oppression when you turned your garage into a walk-in closet to house for your massive collection of shoes, most of which were stitched together in Chinese sweatshops by starving children working for 30 cents an hour, and then marketed and sold at four times the cost to poor black kids who should be buying books instead of gaudy, overpriced sneakers. I don’t think any self-respecting man should have more than a few pair in the first place, but I can’t imagine how a humanitarian like yourself, who’s so publicly and demonstratively disgusted by “oppression,” could buy 500 shoes that were made by slaves on the other side of the world. Call me a stickler, but that seems a little inconsistent. Even hypocritical.
> 
> Yes, America has issues, Colin. Serious issues. They’ve got nothing to do with the cartoonish Evil White Man mythology that you’ve helped perpetuate, but they’re real and they’re serious and they need to be addressed. But as a biracial guy from an adoptive family — whose only marketable skill is running fast and throwing a ball, and not even all that well — you have personally experienced the very best of what this country has to offer. You have been to the mountaintop. You know that it exists, and it’s possible to climb to it, and there are a lot of black people and white people and all different kinds of people up there at the pinnacle.
> 
> That’s why you, of all people, should stand for the anthem, Colin. It is literally the least you could do.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

An athlete engaged in a peaceful act of protest. What's the problem?


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

DayTek said:


> Matt Walsh summed up Kaepernick pefectly: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-colin-kaepernick-youre-not-oppressed-youre-spoiled/
> 
> Be forewarned, Walsh is a bold Conservative who holds nothing back, but he makes A LOT of valid points!
> 
> Excerpt:


I don't understand the criticism in the bottom two paragraphs - as I see the argument: because the athlete has been fortunate enough to come out on top (from a financial perspective), he can't support improving the lives of those who do not?


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Olivaw the problem is that these guys are who people look up to and not standing and sending out the message that the country isn't worth standing for says a lot. This is why I think daytek posted what Matt Walsh had to say and also the San Fransisco police asking the 49's and the NFL for an apology or something from what I heard on the radio today.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

new dog said:


> Olivaw the problem is that these guys are who people look up to and not standing and sending out the message that the country isn't worth standing for says a lot. This is why I think daytek posted what Matt Walsh had to say and also the San Fransisco police asking the 49's and the NFL for an apology or something from what I heard on the radio today.


It does say a lot - it says there are issues that need to be addressed, and this athlete is making a stand for what they believe to be right.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Dogcom, another perspective is that he cares about his country enough to try to improve it through non-violent protest. It is a "black lives matter" protest.

The SFPOA police union demanded an apology because he criticized police officers and their training. That's the union, not the SFPD.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I consider black lives matter almost on par with the KKK.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

new dog said:


> I consider black lives matter almost on par with the KKK.


Why?


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

A lot of them are racist, not all, so not as bad as the KKK.

Also the athlete as I mentioned above has not checked his stats in making his stand. He has a right to make a stand but you also will have to endure all that comes with that stand. In Dallas the Cowboys from what I hear are wearing something on their helmets in honour of the police killed there. Older story but apparently the NFL refused because of uniform concerns.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dal...llas-cowboys-wear-arm-arm-decal-helmets-games


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

new dog said:


> A lot of them are racist, not all, so not as bad as the KKK.
> 
> Also the athlete as I mentioned above has not checked his stats in making his stand. He has a right to make a stand but you also will have to endure all that comes with that stand. In Dallas the Cowboys from what I hear are wearing something on their helmets in honour of the police killed there. Older story but apparently the NFL refused because of uniform concerns.
> 
> http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dal...llas-cowboys-wear-arm-arm-decal-helmets-games


What do you think the BlackLivesMatters movement/groups want?


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Originally they wanted equality and police violence against black people to stop. They are a little misguided because of constant media focus on just black people and little media attention focused on many other people having the same issues. 

A lot of racists have moved into the movement giving them a platform.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Actually only black MEN and usually younger black MEN are shot by US police in any numbers. Black women are extremely rarely shot by US police.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

new dog said:


> Originally they wanted equality and police violence against black people to stop. They are a little misguided because of constant media focus on just black people and little media attention focused on many other people having the same issues.
> 
> A lot of racists have moved into the movement giving them a platform.


For a moment, let's separate the people from the idea - would you agree the originating ideals behind BlackLivesMatters are worthwhile, and they have a legitimate issue to address: namely societal/police violence against blacks?

And if you agree to the above, would you agree the athlete is justified in showing solidarity (in I'll admit, his own small, but high profile way) with those seeking action on this issue?


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Boring: You keep saying Blacks-young black men have lots of interaction with police in the USA-not blacks in general.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

There are several factors at play. Required actions depend on root causes. Here is one way of interpreting the problem:

- Why are police officers (including black officers) stereotyping Afro-Americans? Because there are proportionately more criminals among Afro-Americans than among other population groups. That includes gun violence, drugs, etc... Stereotyping is a short-cut, which humans are prone to make out of laziness, but police are humans and there is no way around it. 

- Why are there more criminals among US blacks? Because there is a disproportionate number of single-parent families. There is a well known correlation between the two factors, which holds true in most societies. 

- Why are there so many single-parent families among blacks? Don't know. Perhaps it's a tradition that goes from generation to generation; those who grow up without fathers tend to care less about having a proper family for their kids. 

What is the best way of reducing the number of single-parent families? 
- Remove assistance to single parents. 
- Make abortions really, really easy and free and encourage them - at least for unmarried women. 

Assuming this logic holds - and I am not sure if all the assumptions are accurate or if it covers all the factors - Black Life Matters should campaign for encouraging abortions among single women and for cutting assistance to single mums.


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

Removing social assistance for single parents would also severely harm one of the most economically disadvantaged groups in society, and I'm not sure why you want the children of single parents to suffer so harshly, which assuredly they would.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I am not saying that I want it. All I am saying is that it would be a good way to stop police officers stereotyping blacks. Hardship would serve as a deterrent from having kids outside family in the first place. Alternatively you could introduce enforced abortions, unless the parents are married. That should work just as well, although there would obviously be an ~15-20 year delay before we start ripping the benefits.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> I don't know why athletes and celebrities believe their opinion is so important to everyone else that it requires public flaunting.
> What do I care what an NFL player or movie actor, or a movie actor portraying an NFL player, thinks about anything ?


If you don't care ... why are you commenting?

At the end of the day, he wants discussion which you are participating in. It seems he was correct that being a public figure that is taking action will trigger discussion.




sags said:


> ... I remember Charlie Sheen saying one time about his role in Navy Seals, that he had to train just like them and was like one of them.
> Say what little self absorbed Charlie ? You are pretending you are a Navy Seal. You aren't actually one of their comrades.


I don't see how he's going to get any additional playing time for his actions/comments so this seems different than Sheen's self or possibly movie promotion.




sags said:


> ... One of the Canadian Tenors made an idiot of himself with his "word changes" and little sign.


And did you catch that most Americans have no idea about the Tenor's change as the US networks were on commercial break?
Mostly Canada noticed.




sags said:


> ... I have little tolerance for self absorbed pretzel sticks who think they know everything because they have followers on Twitter.


I don't see how a guy who is going to get nothing out of it is "self absorbed".




BoringInvestor said:


> I don't understand the criticism in the bottom two paragraphs - as I see the argument: because the athlete has been fortunate enough to come out on top (from a financial perspective), he can't support improving the lives of those who do not?


The argument seems to be that since allegedly he said nothing or wasn't going public about other types of oppression, what is trying to do is bogus. It's not too convincing to me but others will buy it.




new dog said:


> ... the athlete as I mentioned above has not checked his stats in making his stand. He has a right to make a stand but you also will have to endure all that comes with that stand ...


One has to have good stats to take a stand?

Weird logic ... good point about taking what comes with taking a stand though.


Cheers


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

Nelley said:


> Boring: You keep saying Blacks-young black men have lots of interaction with police in the USA-not blacks in general.


Fair point, though I can think of 1-2 key incidents behind this movement that involved black women.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

mordko said:


> I am not saying that I want it. All I am saying is that it would be a good way to stop police officers stereotyping blacks. Hardship would serve as a deterrent from having kids outside family in the first place. Alternatively you could introduce enforced abortions, unless the parents are married. That should work just as well, although there would obviously be an ~15-20 year delay before we start ripping the benefits.


Would these enforced abortions apply to just unmarred black women, or would they also apply to other groups as well (such as poor rural whites, or Mexicans, etc.).


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

It is the MSM-as a white guy in the USA you are far more likely to be killed by a cop than a black women would be (and the MSM would ignore it totally).


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Another problem with this discussion is that unspoken assumptions are used and these assumptions are very weak-the assumption here is that the most powerful persons in the USA (and therefore the federal government) would prefer to fix this young black male crime problem. There is no basis at all for that assumption. Would they prefer the problem to worsen? Maybe, maybe not but logic would say one would have to consider the possibility (especially since nothing at all has been done constructively over the last 40 years).


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

BoringInvestor said:


> Would these enforced abortions apply to just unmarred black women, or would they also apply to other groups as well (such as poor rural whites, or Mexicans, etc.).


That depends on your objective. If the objective is to ensure that Blacks are not negatively stereotyped by police as potential criminals, then focusing on Blacks makes a lot of sense. In fact, other minorities and Americans of European descent should be encouraged and subsidized to have single-parent families. In that case, following ~20 years or so, crime rates among Black Americans would reduce sharply, while crime rates among non-Black Americans would go up, further enhancing the effect. Given that crime rates among Afro-Americans would be lower than among Americans with other skin pigmentations, Blacks would be positively stereotyped by police. Cops would be far more trigger-happy when facing people lacking melanin and the objective would be met.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

The objective is to stop police from killing young black men. For years, we have believed the police line that they only every used violence when faced with violence. Video technology has revealed that Police officers have been using violence that is disproportionate to the infraction when the suspect is a back male. The answer is not to have police use disproportionate violence against everybody. Is is for them to show restraint. 

It reminds me of an old joke/observation. When you are white, you get to talk back to the cops. (It's not funny, but it was used as a joke). I wonder what it feels like to be part of a minority that cannot talk back to cops.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Olivaw: So your premise is that if Olivaw was a cop, you would behave differently than the average cop-somehow I don't buy it.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

There is a simple solution: colourblind robocop. They won't be scared of being killed and in any case won't be able to stereotype based on colour.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

In the mean time it would help if the police stopped hiring Afro-Americans and fired those they already have. They are far more likely to shoot Blacks.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

olivaw said:


> The objective is to stop police from killing young black men. For years, we have believed the police line that they only every used violence when faced with violence. Video technology has revealed that Police officers have been using violence that is disproportionate to the infraction when the suspect is a back male. The answer is not to have police use disproportionate violence against everybody. Is is for them to show restraint.
> 
> It reminds me of an old joke/observation. When you are white, you get to talk back to the cops. (It's not funny, but it was used as a joke). I wonder what it feels like to be part of a minority that cannot talk back to cops.


Oilvaw maybe you should check this article out by a respected source.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

Also look at the ladies comment on how she would like to see an unarmed white teen shot in the back before she thought things were going in the right direction. It seems the objective should be to stop cops killing white people and for people not to make stupid comments like the lady in the article.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Dogcom, I read the Washington Times article but it uses absolute numbers. There are about five times as many non-hispanic whites in the US as there are blacks. Police would need have to kill five unarmed white teens for every unarmed black teen. 

I'm not prepared to argue on behalf of the black lives matter group. I am prepared to accept that they may have a point.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

OlivaW: According to your logic, the main reason women are not being killed by police is because of blatant anti-male prejudice by the police. MENS LIVES MATTER?


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Black lives matter is misguided according to the numbers and some of the stuff they say is only accepted because they are black whereas other groups like white it wouldn't be accepted. I believe the amount of white killed are like 2 to 1 to blacks so the number would be like 2 and a half times. 

The media is pushing out this message, over reporting black beatings or shootings and underreporting these incidents outside the black community.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

olivaw said:


> I'm not prepared to argue on behalf of the black lives matter group. I am prepared to accept that they may have a point.


The stats show that in violent crimes, white people are more likely to be killed by cops than black people. Therefore, I ask you...are you prepared to accept that they may NOT have a point? What will it take to change your mind if the raw numbers won't?


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Bass: Political correctness is not about logic or logical discussion-it is simply about following authority figures blindly (somewhat like fashion). The goal of the politically correct is to be fashionable, not employ logic. Young black guys being shot by cops-must be "racism" because my teacher or the boob tube told me so.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I agree with you guys although I have to give olivaw who is much like andrewf in the way they argue credit, he always puts up a good debate.

It will be interesting if he can do so now that the numbers and the logic don't hold up. I have to agree as well with politically correct blindness that must accept all left mainstream media reporting. In kaepernick's case they didn't see the upside in his criticism of Hillary so they left out all the politically directed comments he made.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

new dog said:


> In kaepernick's case they didn't see the upside in his criticism of Hillary so they left out all the politically directed comments he made.


The media has long since abandoned any attempt to "report" news fairly. They simply have become a left wing propaganda machine. A man recently pulled a baby from a hot car and CNN when interviewing him blurred the writing on his T-shirt...not because it was swear words or offensive, but because it had a statement that supported Trump.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Lost is all of this is that there are too many questionable incidents.
http://time.com/4404987/police-violence/

Plus questionable police procedures .... 
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/“wh...a_book_the_new_warrior_cop_is_out_of_control/

And perhaps the most bizarre ...
http://kfor.com/2016/08/10/73-year-old-woman-fatally-shot-during-florida-police-academy-drill/


Cheers


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^ Look at the TV ads for hiring cops. They are advertising teenage dreams - crazy fights, shootouts, saving pretty ladies, "lethal weapon" scenes, etc... That's what they need to churn out to recruit enough cops into the system. And that's the type of person who goes to work for the police.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Right electric if those were black people in the first link we would never hear the end of it with huge riots of course.

Kaepernck maybe onto something about police training but not the black thing.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

And I can understand why people would be upset about specific incidents, a few do look suspicious - a few of these incidents upset me. But Black Lives Matters is just a racist hodge-podge of crazies: 

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/209977/black-lives-matters-jewish-problem
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/23/black-lives-matters-hypocritical-anti-semitism/


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

http://www.attn.com/stories/11063/what-protest-colin-kaepernick-says-about-white-privilege

The tweets from Allen Etzler (in the article above) are pretty interesting.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

nobleea said:


> http://www.attn.com/stories/11063/what-protest-colin-kaepernick-says-about-white-privilege
> 
> The tweets from Allen Etzler (in the article above) are pretty interesting.


He didn't find the time tweet about Kaepernick's socks that portray cops as pigs, or mention his criticism of Hillary...but as any good Liberal does, he had time to comment about Trump


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Seem to recall most Canadians being pretty upset when Russian hockey players walked out on Oh, Canada last year. Russian players are white, not black. This proves Black privilege.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Nobleea: Typical MSM B/S that even an intelligent 6 year old child would see right through-TRUMP is a candidate for POTUS-if this dumb jock was a leading candidate to become POTUS of course he would have the right to promote his views and platform. Jeez.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Good article Nobleea it shows matter how anything turns out it is white people and Trump's fault. Everything else Colin says is ignored as bass points out.

As we all have noticed everything Trump says is criticized. Everything Hillary does like the e-mail scandal is twisted into Trump's fault and of course Putin and Russia has to be thrown in as well wherever possible.

Only black people can be mistreated and Hillary will help them even though we have had 8 years of a black president who hasn't helped anyone. Things are worse for black people after 8 years if you believe what the media is saying. Somehow even though Trump is not in office he is still the problem.

Interesting Mordko as BLM raises up Israel, jews and Palestine in their nutty rhetoric. The left is truly nuts and will implode and destroy itself as people wake up to their made up truths.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

new dog said:


> I agree with you guys although I have to give olivaw who is much like andrewf in the way they argue credit, he always puts up a good debate.
> 
> It will be interesting if he can do so now that the numbers and the logic don't hold up. I have to agree as well with politically correct blindness that must accept all left mainstream media reporting. In kaepernick's case they didn't see the upside in his criticism of Hillary so they left out all the politically directed comments he made.


Thanks dogcom, I have always enjoyed your posts. 

I am not sure what you want me to debate about BLM. Bass threw out a vague reference to numbers but failed to quote them. Nelley offered platitudes. Mordko changed the subject.  

One relevant number is that a black male in America is 2.5 times as likely as a white male to be shot by a police officer. 

The BLM movement was a direct offshoot of anger over the senseless killing of young Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman. Zimmerman walked free and was showered with praise and admiration. He recently sold the gun that he used to shoot the unarmed teenager for $138,900. 

Kaepernicl's didn't call anybody to violence. He didn't write nasty blog posts or tweets. He sat during his country's national anthem and sparked an intelligent debate in that country. I'd say his protest was a success.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Olivaw: Platitude? You seem unable to make logical arguments-you simply repeat MSM pap. Look-your "evidence" here is that black males are 2.5 times more likely to be shot in the USA-lets look at Korean, Japanese or Chinese males in the USA-they are being shot by police far less than white males-try to think. Jeez.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

olivaw automatically believes the msm lies without question like a good liberal is supposed to. :biggrin: The Zimmerman facts prove that he isn't racist...he had previously dated a black woman, he tutored black kids, and once defended a homeless black man. In addition, he is a Hispanic, not white as the media portrayed him.

Per violent incident, white people are twice as likely to be shot by a cop than black people...another inconvenient fact overlooked by those on the left who push their "every white person is racist" agenda every single chance they get. BLM thugs can incite violence and scream that it's okay to kill cops and those actions and comments are always edited out of media reports.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

mordko said:


> And I can understand why people would be upset about specific incidents, a few do look suspicious - a few of these incidents upset me.


Does turning a guy loose as an undercover cop in a drug raid when he hasn't finished the department mandated firearms training courses plus having no training on the use of deadly force as a police officer count? He's the one that shot the white Atlanta pastor.

There's the Atlanta cop that has been fired and is charged with murder. The Atlanta police investigation found no obvious threat to his safety.

Atlanta is interest as three undercover officers wearing bullet proof vests with a "no knock warrant" had trouble handling a 92 year old woman. She fired one shot over their head. *Their* thirty nine shots return fire wounded cops in the arm, thigh and shoulder.

Likely the address was a mistake as one of the cops later confessed to planting drugs after they failed to find any in the house.




mordko said:


> But Black Lives Matters is just a racist hodge-podge of crazies ...


Maybe be ... but it seems there are more BLM tweets about whites being killed under suspicious circumstances than All Lives Matter tweets. There seems to be lots to complain about if everyone matters.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

olivaw said:


> ... Kaepernicl's didn't call anybody to violence. He didn't write nasty blog posts or tweets. He sat during his country's national anthem and sparked an intelligent debate in that country. I'd say his protest was a success.


Question is ... how much is about his patriotism/privilege and other side shows versus the issue he wants to have discussed? 


Cheers


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

bass player said:


> olivaw automatically believes the msm lies without question like a good liberal is supposed to. :biggrin: The Zimmerman facts prove that he isn't racist...he had previously dated a black woman, he tutored black kids, and once defended a homeless black man. In addition, he is a Hispanic, not white as the media portrayed him.
> 
> Per violent incident, white people are twice as likely to be shot by a cop than black people...another inconvenient fact overlooked by those on the left who push their "every white person is racist" agenda every single chance they get. BLM thugs can incite violence and scream that it's okay to kill cops and those actions and comments are always edited out of media reports.


Think it through Bass. There are two unarmed white people killed for every unarmed black person. But there are five times as many white people in the general population. A black person is 2.5X as likely to be shot. Let me explain. There are two black men and ten white men in a room. One black man and two white men are killed. Half of the blacks in the room have been killed but only 20% of the whites. Either way, three people needlessly lost their lives and that is what we all should be worried about. 

ZImmerman's own racism or lack thereof is irrelevant. He was showered with gifts and praise for killing an unarmed black teenager. He even sold the gun for close to $140,000 as a collectors item. A message was sent to blacks that the death of an innocent young black man was to be celebrated.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Question is ... how much is about his patriotism/privilege and other side shows versus the issue he wants to have discussed?


I'd "guess" that 70 to 80% of the discussion is the nonsense and the rest is what he wants to have discussed. 20% is better than nothing.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Olivaw: You are very good at continually typing nonsense. Black "persons" are not being killed-it is young black men involved in criminal activity-very hard for you to accept or understand that fact.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

Olivaw:


You are beyond help. You specifically mentioned Zimmerman in an attempt to prove a racist point, but once you were told that he was Hispanic and not white (why you didn't know before today escapes all reason) you suddenly say that his race doesn't matter.

You also ignore the fact that in "violent" incidents white people are more likely to be shot than black people.

How can anyone have a discussion with someone who can't grasp the basic common sense reasoning skills that most people learned in elementary school?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Race may well have played a role in Zimmerman stereotyping Martin. He is Hispanic - so what? Does it somehow mean he can't stereotype by skin colour? 

As long as young black males are disproportionately involved in crime, there will be stereotyping of this kind. 

There are only 2 ways to reduce the relatively high ratio of blacks vs non-blacks being shot by police:

1. Reduce crime rates among blacks. One way of achieving this would be to reduce the number of single-parent families among blacks (as mentioned above). 
2. Incentivise police to shoot everyone else. A $1000 reward for every Asian shot by police could reduce the proportion of killed blacks in no time.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

bass player said:


> Olivaw:
> 
> 
> You are beyond help. You specifically mentioned Zimmerman in an attempt to prove a racist point, but once you were told that he was Hispanic and not white (why you didn't know before today escapes all reason) you suddenly say that his race doesn't matter.
> ...


Poor Bass - I said his racism isn't relevant, not that his race doesn't matter. I would have said that after your last post but Mordko beat me to it. From the start, my point was that it was the celebration of Trayvon Martin's death that was offensive. 

I don't think that you are going to convince people to deny that black lives matter.

As I told dogcom, I am not a BLM supporter. Neither am I opposed to the movement. It's pretty obvious that there s a problem and there is more to the solution than telling African Americans to be more law abiding or telling cops to stop shooting people.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Nelley said:


> Olivaw: You are very good at continually typing nonsense.
> 
> Black "persons" are not being killed-it is young black men involved in criminal activity-very hard for you to accept or understand that fact.


So what was the criminal activity that Philando Castile was up to?
I missed that press release.

92 year old Kathryn Johnston whose house was broken into for a supposed drug raid was supposed to have been a crack dealer. The informant that supposedly bought crack denied the police report he had bought drugs at her house, which was the justification for the no-knock warrent. The situation was investigated more thoroughly as *all* of the police injuries were from police bullets.

The white guy waiting for the police who was shot by the police would be surprised to hear that he was involved in criminal activity.


Cheers


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Eclectic: Yes the police in the USA make lots of mistakes all the time.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^

Then why claim a "fact" that there seem to be a fair number of exceptions to?


Cheers


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Cops make mistakes-could be worse-doctor errors are possibly the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA-so it is way more likely the quack will kill you than the cop.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Kaepernick doesn't have to worry about health care, he can afford the best or the team will get him the best. Must be horrible to be an American I feel sorry for Kaeprernick, not.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Nelley said:


> Cops make mistakes-could be worse-doctor errors are possibly the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA-so it is way more likely the quack will kill you than the cop.


Be that as it may ... I haven't checked it out - the question remains was it a mistake that you claimed a "fact" that doesn't hold water?


I can understand arguing that the deaths are part of the general mistake making but that's not what was written.


[ As I say, I find it questionable that someone who hasn't finished the weapons training was turned loose as an undercover narc but as the guy shot was white, the question of who to put in the field does not appear to be being broadly discussed. The few that are discussing it seem focused on retribution via lawsuit or justification due to the way things went down. ]


Cheers


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

John Tortorella ex coach of the Vancouver Canucks certainly had something to say before the hockey world cup. He said if any player sits for the national anthem then they will sit for the entire game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/john-t...n-kaepernick-anthem-protesters-222744029.html

This was a interesting article asking the opinions of the loud mouths of the game.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Ha, that was a pretty funny article dogcom. 



> John Tortorella is getting paid to win hockey games. At least, in theory. The idea that his personal politics, no matter the issue, would determine which players would compete in a game to help him achieve that aim is, frankly, dereliction of duty. And we would pay big, huge money to listen to that conversation between Tortorella and his 50-year-old general manager in Columbus – a native of Tampere, Finland – as the coach explains that star defenseman Seth Jones was scratched because he didn’t stand for a few minutes of pregame propaganda, and because the player’s personal politics aren’t as important as his white, privileged coach’s.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I like the points they made on sports talk today. People say now is not a good time to make point on the team. The response was when is it a good time, when it is convenient for you, so you don't have to think about the issue. They said on the show, when is it a good time to protest, you just have to do it. By doing what he has done he has put a huge spotlight on his issue, even though I think he should be focusing on white and black people because these are the people taking the brunt of police brutality today. 

Anyway interesting points on when is it ever a good time to protest. Nothing would have changed in the 60's if people didn't stand up back then.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Signs of racial tensions in Toronto: Black Lives Matters makes demands.

I believe BLM got the police removed from the annual Gay Parade.
Now they are starting on the schools.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/black-lives-matter-toronto-school-demands-1.4093620




> Black Lives Matter Toronto wants to eliminate the School Resource Officer Program, which stations uniformed officers in Toronto-area schools, as part of six changes targeting anti-black racism in the education system.
> 
> Officers have been stationed at schools since 2008, which was funded by a federal grant.
> 
> ...


This is a serious problem about to get worse.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

This is a serious problem, unfortunately the problem isn't racism. As long as the mainstream keeps giving merit and credit to dangerous organizations such as BLM (and any other groups in the 'oppression olympics'), this problem will only continue. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ZRj_a_2qM

This debate sums it up pretty well. I think when Ben states the part about raising people to believe that some unknown boogie man and system is out to get you your whole life (especially when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary), is probably the single most destructive thing we can do to a person or a specific group of people. As long as the media and academia keep feeding this radical narrative, things will only get worse. Its a self-perpetuating cycle.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

BLM is smart to start going into the schools to get to young people to increase their movement and pipeline. The mainstream media and many left thinkers out there can also be easily coerced into whatever problems the BLM can come up with so their movement can gain momentum.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

Yep, our progressive and radical feminist Prime Minister will have them making policies and decisions in all levels of government in no time.


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