# TDDI RRSP - US Stock Dividends - 'forced' currency conversions



## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

*Update: 2014-01-30. *

The letter below, was rejected by the TD Helps website. 
A secondary post, was accepted. See this post in this thread, for further details.

*Bottom line:*
-* Bad news. Cash Dividends. * The new 'Foreign Exchange Wash Service' does not apply. 
*USD dividends that are paid as cash are still subject to currency conversion fees.*
- *DRIP*. The only way to avoid currency conversion fees is if you enroll each of your US dividend stocks in the *DRIP* program.

******************************************************

I am about to send the following message to TDDI.
Any comments from CMF forum members, with similar issues, before I hit the <Send> button?

******************************************************

_
Dear TDDI,

I hold US Stocks in my TD Direct Investing (TDDI) RRSP account.
These US companies pay out their dividends in US dollars (USD).

In a previous post, a TD media representative announced that TD’s new Foreign Exchange Wash Service was in effect (launching, I believe around mid-December 2013).

My TDDI RRSP has long been enrolled in the original auto washing program.

On Dec 31st, 2013, I received USD dividends. Unfortunately, it appears they were converted to Canadian dollars (CAD).

If I understand your new 'Foreign Exchange Wash Service' correctly, my expectation is that these dividends should have been autowashed and deposited directly as USD into my TD US Money Market Fund (TDB166).

This is not occurring. 
It appears that all USD dividends are being 'converted' and deposited as CAD cash and are not being placed in TDB166.

I understand that TDDI is working on a long-term solution to provide clients with a 'pure' USD RRSP, similar to their competitors.
I understand that this is an issue with technology and the implementation of a new platform that will require some time (last estimate is Dec 2014).
I'm willing to be patient for these changes.

The workaround that TDDI has provided for years (ie. the autowashing of US stock trades in and out of the US Money Market Fund (TDB166), which is a 'holder' of USD) has been acceptable to me.

However, what is not acceptable, ....
is the cost of losing a significant amount of money to 'forced' currency conversion fees.

*TDDI, please provide feedback on how I can keep my USD dividends as USD.* 
These should be autowashed into my TDB166, without 'forced' currency conversion fees._


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Looks good to me. Looking forward to their response.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

Go Avrex! I don't have anything else to add, but please let us know the response from TD.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Looks clear enough to me.

A couple days ago I when I was on the phone to TDDI I told the rep I was moving my registered accounts to CIBC, and why.

She seemed quite thankful for the info and assured me it would be passed on to her supervisor, but when I asked if there was any incentive to stay, (CIBC offers cash plus free trades plus it covers TD's moving fees), she said TDDI doesn't currently have anything like that running at the moment.
The best she could offer was $7 trades for 3 months.

Personally I prefer CIBC's solution as discovered by gibor; offering market spot rates on all registered account $US money conversions, (they also offer FX netting on multiple conversions on the same day if you phone in that day).

Imho this beats separate USD & CAD accounts hands down because it not only converts USD divs fairly, it also eliminates the need for Norbert's Gambit, making it faster and easier to take advantage of market swings and deals I might have been waiting for.

I've heard CIBC may be working on true USD reg accounts too but I hope they don't go through with it because it seems they have come up with the most perfect customer friendly solution already.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I wrote a similar note to TDDI. They got back to me but the best they could do was offer to wash USD dividends into TDB166 but only if I call in and make the request. Even though I get USD dividends 4 times a year, I'm almost certain to forget to call in and make a wash. So, I packed it in and moved to a broker that offers true USD RRSP.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

there is a nice choice now of brokers - five of them - offering different kinds of USD or USD-equivalent registered plans.

i do think mister pincer has good arguments for the cibc approach ... but for some investors, a *big* advantage is going to be the ability to hold & accumulate true US dollars without conversion in rrsp.

no time can illustrate this better than the present time, with the loonie sagging beneath $.90. Yes, a spot rate conversion of US dollars today will generate a nice big bunch of canadian dollars, but the opportunity for further appreciation of USD will then be lost forever.

so some investors who are intent on accumulating more USD as fast as possible might prefer a dual-currency rrsp as offered by questrade, roybank & bmo.

also: surely it is not necessary to gambit or otherwise exchange capital so frequently? i do maybe one or at the most 2 a year, so $20 or $40 in commish make no difference.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> I've heard CIBC may be working on true USD reg accounts too but I hope they don't go through with it because it seems they have come up with the most perfect customer friendly solution already.


Anytime I've asked, they've been pretty non commital. And refuse to give a hard date. But:




mrPPincer said:


> Personally I prefer CIBC's solution as discovered by gibor; offering market spot rates on all registered account $US money conversions, (they also offer FX netting on multiple conversions on the same day if you phone in that day).


100% agree. A much better solution IMHO


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

@CC. Interesting.
That 'calling in' sounds similar to TD's washing in the early days. 
Do you remember? We would buy/sell a US ETF or stock. At the end of the trading day (after 4:00 pm), we would *have to call in to 'ensure' *that the trade was settled using TDB166. It was a pain-in-the-butt. And then finally, in May 2011, TDW began to allow the automatic 'wash of rates', as long as you called in to enroll in the program. This solved our problem of currency conversion fees being imposed on us, when we purchased US based instruments.

Now, with the quiet sort-of announcement of TD’s new *Foreign Exchange Wash Service*, I was hoping that this means that *US dividends *will also now be auto-washed.

I will give TD one more chance.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> no time can illustrate this better than the present time, with the loonie sagging beneath $.90. Yes, a spot rate conversion of US dollars today will generate a nice big bunch of canadian dollars, but the opportunity for further appreciation of USD will then be lost forever.


But effectively you could do that on your own by using your CAD$ in your RRSP to buy the USD Money Market Mutual Fund. Effectively setting up a US$ cash position in your account. Can CIBC DOES allow you to wash trades into and out of that Fund with a call into their call center.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Xoron said:


> But effectively you could do that on your own by using your CAD$ in your RRSP to buy the USD Money Market Mutual Fund. Effectively setting up a US$ cash position in your account. Can CIBC DOES allow you to wash trades into and out of that Fund with a call into their call center.



xoron thinggabbouddit that's way too many steps.

- USD dividends arrive;
- broker converts into CAD at spot rate;
- investor has to remember to swoop in & purchase US MMF;
- if i were the investor here, i'd be checking that broker converted back from CAD to USD at spot/boc rates, what a bother;
- sometimes investor will forget or else be too busy to do the small USD MMF purchase (for each & every dividend? what a nuisance);
- sometimes the amount of the dividend will be less than the minimum required to buy USD MMF so dividend will have to remain in CAD.

on the other hand, investor with dual-currency rrsp receives his USD dividends, keeps his USD dividends, end of story.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Xoron said:


> Anytime I've asked, they've been pretty non commital. And refuse to give a hard date. But:
> 
> 100% agree. A much better solution IMHO


They don't refuse....they just don't know  They are don't even have a ball park for this project 

I prefer CIBC approach FX rate = spot rate, that what BMO offers, in BMO you cannot DRIP US dividends at all! only get US cash. And I want US$ in CIBC , I can always buy US MM (no minimum fees) or do FX netting (gambit)..
Actually, today started process of moving RRSP to CIBC ...

I had conversations with several managers in TDDI and they didn't convince me to stay there....no reasons...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_also: surely it is not necessary to gambit or otherwise exchange capital so frequently? i do maybe one or at the most 2 a year, so $20 or $40 in commish make no difference. _ 

Yes, me 2...but in many cases I run out of US MM and want to buy US stock for 5K as an example.... So I need to pay $20 fees or "eat" ridiculous FX rate.... Also, during my working hours, it's not easy to do gambit trades 
HP. I don't know how freq you are trading, but on 100 trades you overpay to TD more than $300


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

I've only done the 'gambits' when setting up my initial positions as a new TDW customer a couple years ago, also I trade very infrequently, maybe a couple or few times per year, for rebalancing purposes mainly.

But recently I saw an opportunity to scoop up a british ADR at a nice price, and declined because of the gambit hassle, and I didn't want to buy a huge stake in this stock either, so the $30 trading costs plus the time expended on the gambit was not worth it in my judgment at the time.
That cost me some money.

With CIBC I will be free to buy/sell US listed securities with no hassle, that's the biggest selling point for me.

The $6.95 trading fees are just a bonus.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Avrex,

I should send the same email. We can compare notes 

Mark


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> Avrex,
> 
> I should send the same email. We can compare notes
> 
> Mark


I can even write here TDDI answer 
I had email correspondence and phone conversation with 2 different managers..... those letter won't help...


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## Killer Z (Oct 25, 2013)

I have a CIBC Investors Edge RRSP and TFSA. I have been tempted to open an RRSP with a USD$ option, but the combination of a fair exchange rate and their $6.95 trading fees make CIBC IE fine by me for now.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> I wrote a similar note to TDDI. They got back to me but the best they could do was offer to wash USD dividends into TDB166 but only if I call in and make the request. Even though I get USD dividends 4 times a year, I'm almost certain to forget to call in and make a wash. So, I packed it in and moved to a broker that offers true USD RRSP.



one has to wonder what is with a financial institution that could dream up a nightmare for itself like that:

- hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of USD dividends in rrsps each year;
- call centre staff already overworked;
- clients are supposed to "phone" re each & every dividend;
- overworked call centre will determine if each dividend amount will be > or < $100;
- if greater, OW CC will send instruction to place dividend amount in USD MMF;
- if less, OW CC will attempt to deal w frustrated client;
- most USD dividends will fail the $100 threshhold;
- therefore most dividends will still be converted into CAD at same-old-bad-old 1.50% FX rate;
- clients will be more unhappy than ever.

what part of this is the big green not getting? the bar has now been set by 5 other brokers. At least 2 other brokers have elected to convert all USD dividends in registered accounts at spot rates.

hello!


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Avrex, the note looks good to me. Consider posting it on the public TD forum.

http://www.td.com/to-our-customers/tdhelps/#psce|cid=871|lid=1|tid=001|vid=32846866


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> one has to wonder what is with a financial institution that could dream up a nightmare for itself like that:
> 
> ....hello!


If someone wants to call CC regarding every dividend, automatic alert should be setup, but I doubt it's possible...otherwise you should check your account several times per day in order not to miss when US dividend arrives....
imho, TDDI doesn't want to do it because 99% of investors not aware about those FX rates or don't care, thus TD earns millions on those conversions


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

GoldStone said:


> Avrex, the note looks good to me. Consider posting it on the public TD forum.
> 
> http://www.td.com/to-our-customers/tdhelps/#psce|cid=871|lid=1|tid=001|vid=32846866


I did it some time ago and than one of the managers contacted me....Below is his respomce (pretty sure you will get very similar one) 
_I don’t have a specific answer as to when we will be launching our USD RRSP. There is a lot of behind the scenes work required before we can make it live. I’m hesitant to give you a date as I know you’ve been told dates in the past only to then encounter delays. What I can tell you is that it is a strategic priority for fiscal 2014 and our hope is that it will be live by Q1 2015. However, having said that, I want to caution you that this is not a firm date as there are many moving parts involved in terms or our back office, reporting and data feeds that need to be addressed before we’re comfortable launching it.



_


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## maxandrelax (Jul 11, 2012)

Thanks for writing this, I may edit and send as well with OP's permission. They HAVE to change over eventually. With the growing amount of self-directed RRSPs this issue will cost TD business. The tipping point just hasn't been reached yet apparently.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I guess we have to vote with our feet per se and do what CC did, move accounts. It's just a messy process to do so....I want to be patient but patience is costing me money and that's not cool.

With BMO InvestorLine, I recall you cannot run synthetic DRIPs for US stocks or ETFs? All US dividends are deposited as US cash?


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

I plan to call and send off an email later today - I don't plan on leaving the big green just yet but I will inquire about the transfer process, inform them of my frustrations, etc. Power in numbers!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

My Own Advisor said:


> ... With BMO InvestorLine, I recall you cannot run synthetic DRIPs for US stocks or ETFs? All US dividends are deposited as US cash?




re BMO & the USD dividend DRIP issue: for over a year now, while digging in the FX mud, i've been hypothesizing that the CDS system itself is a part of the double FX fee that was/is still charged on USD DRIPs. Certainly the CDS system is ancient, with some parts dating back to as long ago as WW II. These are the legacy mainframes whose functions even high-ranking execs at brokers often don't quite understand.

it's the CDS system that delivers almost all of the dividends, in both currencies, to brokers. If indeed CDS is involved in the highly toxic double-FX procedure, then no broker could easily escape.

as it happens, right now BMO is labouring against an important class action suit brought by distinguished toronto litigation law firm Paliare Roland on former hidden FX fees on rrsp stock transactions. Goldstone was kind enough to link this lawsuit in a nearby thread. 

all can readily see that BMO's conduct has improved since that action was filed in 2007, even though no hearings have yet been held. I for one see many subtle little signs that BMO is now minding its Ps & Qs on the FX issue.

i'm wondering whether BMO may have realized that DRIPPing USD dividends in their recently-introduced dual-currency rrsp would trigger the very same punitive double FX fees which they are now determined to avoid. So their solution has been to simply say No USD Dripping in registered accounts.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Interesting thesis, I'll buy that re: DRIPPing USD dividends at BMO, may trigger the same punitive double FX fees...

It just shouldn't be this complicated. Thanks for writing back hp.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

My Own Advisor said:


> It just shouldn't be this complicated.



you're so right!

it's too bad we are having to do this research ourselves, by working empirically upwards from hard field evidence.

this is because the brokers are being deliberately opaque. Because they are not telling the truth, or at least not much of the truth, unless they are backed up against a wall. Because their front-line representatives, having never been properly trained on the various FX issues, are making up fictions when clients ask questions.

fwiw i'm sending 250k away from the big green right now, adding this to other brokers. Will send away more later if they don't start to pull up their socks. Baby steps.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I just ran a report in Quicken. Our two RRSPs collected $5,135 in US dividends in year 2013. That's before forced conversion. Let's assume 1.6% conversion penalty (it can be a bit less or a bit more). $5,135 * 1.6% = $82

I have to admit, I'm too lazy to move two RRSPs over $82. I think I will call TDDI with numbers in hand to request a restitution. 8 free trades will do it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> I'm too lazy to move two RRSPs over $82. I think I will call TDDI with numbers in hand to request a restitution. 8 free trades will do it.


i had/have roughly similar figure ... in 2012 nice PA team manager offered to refund me these rrsp FX fees in cash ...

but i refused. See, goldstone, if u are aspiring to publish your writings on finance here, u should adhere to proper journo standards. 

one cannot accept anything from any subject while continuing to write about them. Alas one will lose all authenticity, all objectivity. One will become compromised, even tainted.

it's ok to accept advertised promos that are publicly & democratically available to all who fit a merchant's criteria. What's not ok is to accept hidden under-the-table benefits that are not publicly available.

for a measley $82, are u willing to shut down & silence forever your ability to call the TD conduct "maddening?"

all this is why i thought we should keep a tally of what under-the-table benefits the big green is offering to keep clients in the stable.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Oh, c'mon, don't be so serious. This is a free for all forum. I can say whatever I want about TDDI. A refund of $82 won't change a thing.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> Oh, c'mon, don't be so serious. This is a free for all forum. I can say whatever I want about TDDI. A refund of $82 won't change a thing.


how could u live with yourself? you'd compromise your entire integrity for 82 measley dollars?

i for one would stop respecting you. Yes i'm a good enough investigator that i'd probably be able to find out each:


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Compromise my entire integrity?????? You must be kidding.

It's a trivial refund of what they overcharged me. I'm not going to sing their praises in return.

Bell messed up my billing last year. I called to sort it out and got a refund. I guess my entire integrity is already compromised. :cower:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

no i'm not kidding & you're not talking about a refund for a messed-up bill. You're talking about asking for a special deal - some might call it a bribe - that's worth $82, strictly to offset $82 in FX fees during one year, that you keep on complaining about in this forum.

after one year, what you going to do? re-negotiate another measley $82 concession?

don't you think the big green will know how treacherous you are, how you'll take their money but continue to bee eye tee see aitch behind their back? don't you think they're reading every word here? at least their little social media journatillos & journatilettes are reading ...

but to carry on, what about your readers here? i mean, you had a certain credibility as a sandpaper-voiced prophet of the couch potato religion, which you've already compromised by declaring that your best individual stock pick allowed you to near-double your TFSA in one short year while your indexed couch, well, it just plodded with the index.

i'm serious when i say that if you take as much as one dollar under the table from the big green in return for a cheap one-year deal, you will lose - at least for that year - any right to sing about how "maddening" they are.

better you should show some responsibility for your fellow cmf mates & seek a refund of *all* FX fees paid on *all* USD dividends in *all* registered accounts owed by *all* clients for the entire past year.

you'd have far less chance of success, but at least it would be a decent thing to do.

that's what i did when i corresponded with the big green in 2013. I didn't ask for anything for myself. I asked on behalf of *all* clients who are receiving USD dividends at the big green.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Alright, @humble_pie, @GoldStone, break it up. I respect both of you here on this forum.

*We can do both.*
a) Each individual investor, such as GoldStone, can look for individual restitution. If GoldStone can get 8 free trades from TDDI, that's great. I have no problem with that. If TD is forced to do this for many, many investors, it puts more pressure on them to solve this issue sooner.
b) Individual investors, like ourselves, can continue to put pressure on TDDI via email queries, etc. Plus, media journalists can also put pressure on TDDI via posts/articles.

Let's *all *continue to put pressure on TDDI.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

I submitted the above letter.

As per GoldStone's suggestion, I have submitted my letter on the TD Help forum.


GoldStone said:


> Avrex, the note looks good to me. Consider posting it on the public TD forum.
> http://www.td.com/to-our-customers/tdhelps/#psce|cid=871|lid=1|tid=001|vid=32846866


There is no general email address to TD to make enquires, which makes it difficult to contact them through an email system. 
TD customers can logon to their TD EasyWeb account and submit messages there.
I decided using the public forum makes the most sense, because, well, .... it's public.

I submitted my question to the TD Help forum on Friday at 3:20 pm. 

*As of right now, my post has not appeared on the webpage.*
I'm sure we can think of several reasons why this post has not appeared yet. 
I've included my email address (as queries can also be submitted anonymously) so that TDDI can reach out to me to discuss.

*Let's be patient and see if TD responds by early next week.*


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> I should send the same email. We can compare notes


Thanks for reaching out to me via PM. Yes, you should send a similar email with your concerns.



maxandrelax said:


> Thanks for writing this, I may edit and send as well with OP's permission.


Yes, by all means, use my letter as a template.



Synergy said:


> I plan to call and send off an email later today.... Power in numbers!


Yes, everyone do it.

The more people that send their concerns to TDDI, the better.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

avrex said:


> Alright, @humble_pie, @GoldStone


avrex i believe profoundly in newspapering integrity. It's the best thing in the world, next to my kids.

would you sell your kids? it's the same idea. Journos accept something hidden, they lose their integrity as journos. Please note that they can accept, of course, there's no question about that. But thereafter, they cannot really write objectively each:

that's exactly why i opened a thread where folks could report the bribes being offered by the big green. Because the bribes are so entertaining. So far, they are hopelessly too small.

now if goldstone would work up his request for $82 representing FX fees charged over one year to his family into a class action seeking restitution for all FX fees charged on all USD dividends to all clients in all registered accounts ever since the TD was founded in 1983, then i would be impressed ...


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

humble, I can say the same thing about your move to BMO. That you are accepting a $300 bribe under the table, a bribe that is not available to the long-time BMO customers. How treacherous is that? Why don't you demand a $300 top-up for every loyal BMO customer?

But I'm not going to say that because that would be ridiculous. 

Let's agree to disagree.

Please accept my sincere Thank You for the great work you do behind the scenes on behalf of all TDDI clients.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> now if goldstone would work up his request for $82 representing FX fees charged over one year to his family into a class action seeking restitution for all FX fees charged on all USD dividends to all clients in all registered accounts ever since the TD was founded in 1983, then i would be impressed ...


TDW settled a class action lawsuit on this matter. As a part of the settlement, they amended their client agreements to provide all relevant disclosures about FX charges.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

For me it doesn't matter if it's $82, $50, or $150. I just hate TDDI approach to charge clients ridiculous fees and bullshiting about USD RRSP for years and giving different dates all the time... They just could've do it like CIBC, charge FX rate for spot rate until they really implement USD RRSP.
And this not only for dividend conversion, every time you want to buy US equity, you should pay $20 on gambit or pay extra FX fees. Assume that you don't have all bunch of cash right now and want to invest $4000 every months, you will waste much more than on FX dividends conversion....
And even if you do one big gambit for let's say 50K (like HP mentioned), all your US $$$ will sit in US MM and earn you nothing (I'm not talking about fluctuations of FX spot rate). I prefer to keep my $ in HISA getting 2% and just contribute into RRSP when I really need to buy something


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gold you've raised an excellent issue. At bmo, it's not $300, it's $250, i already have a bmo account, it's been my backup trading account for years. I will soon deliver 100k to this account. If all goes well & i don't withdraw for 6 months, bmo is supposed to hand over $250.

i'm not moving the registered accounts to bmo, they're going somewhere else.

why don't you ask canadiancapitalist the same question? the answer is that the $250 promo which bmo is offering is totally & publicly declared, in elaborate detail. Any person anywhere in canada who fits the bmo criteria can earn it. It's transparent, democratic, available to all.

it's when we get into secret kickback deals that my old-school antennae go up. These are bad news for journalists.

i believe that what i wrote was a compliment to you, gold, if you might be willing to read between the lines. You see, i regard you as an influential writer/journo in this forum. So instinctively i want you to stay on the narrow path.


EDIT: goldstone i reviewed your message & unfortunately it appears to contain a hideous smear. Here's what you wrote, i do hope i will be permitted to respond since you have made a false accusation:




GoldStone said:


> humble, I can say the same thing about your move to BMO. That you are accepting a $300 bribe under the table, a bribe that is not available to the long-time BMO customers. How treacherous is that? Why don't you demand a $300 top-up for every loyal BMO customer?



answer: what i hope to accept is a $250 cashback if i don't withdraw anything over 6 months. Accusations of "under the table" & "treacherous" are vile & slanderous. What on earth are you talking about?

the bmo offer is well publicized. Every detail is transparent & aboveboard. Any party in canada who meets the BMO criteria can benefit. Canadiancapitalist has already written extensively about this offer, has said he accepted the offer, has published an informational article that helps to guide other people towards what might be a useful destination for them. There is nothing "under the table" or "treacherous" about any of this.

i'm not referring any other persons to BMO. My children are still too young. I don't have conversations about finance with friends since they tend to be sort of arty & flyé(e).

i would no more accept a penny or a cup of coffee for such a "referral" than i would fly to the moon. I have a very long history of helping people here in this forum. I don't work in the finance industry, have nothing to sell, no product to tout. Nothing, really, except stories to tell.

i'm pretty shocked at the venom of your attack.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> TDW settled a class action lawsuit on this matter. As a part of the settlement, they amended their client agreements to provide all relevant disclosures about FX charges.


yes, you provided the link, thanks very much.

but the suit was about FX fees on stock transactions, was it not? the other class actions have also been about stock transactions, have they not?

no class action has ever focused on dividends?

the matter of FX fees on USD dividends paid by 20 canadian companies when shares are held in all types of canadian accounts has never been a class action matter? the only class actions, so far, have involved stock transactions in registered accounts only?

is the information regarding FX fees that is provided to canadian investors truly either complete, from a relevancy point of view, or disclosed in a manner & language that clients can easily understand?

has there ever been any attempt to train call centre representatives to deal accurately with this issue? right now i can see that BMO has made a nominal effort to train representatives to handle incoming RRSP clients. (it's a tricky point - some clients even resent it - but the BMO reps have been trained to explain that stocks intended to receive USD dividends in rrsp must be toggled into the USD side of the dual-currency account.)

on a serious note i believe that a case could be taken to the competition bureau, under the Competition Act. The issue would be, not the charging of FX fees per se, but rather the failure to communicate and disclose these fees adequately and transparently, across all brokerages in one manner or another, across canada. The case would seek to examine whether the brokerage industry, at the highest level, has colluded to maintain high foreign exchange fees all these many years & decades, by denying & refusing to show adequate information to their clients.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> it's when we get into secret kickback deals that my old-school antennae go up.


You see it as a secret kickback, I see it as a trivial refund that any customer is free to ask for. Let's agree to disagree.



humble_pie said:


> These are bad news for journalists.


Yes, but I'm not a journalist. I'm not here to influence anyone. Also note how open I'm about me wanting to get a refund.

-----

*Re: TDW class action*

I don't know enough to comment. I'm not a lawyer.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> i had/have roughly similar figure ... in 2012 nice PA team manager offered to refund me these rrsp FX fees in cash ...
> 
> but i refused. See, goldstone, if u are aspiring to publish your writings on finance here, u should adhere to proper journo standards.
> 
> ...


I got the "big green " to waive those stupid $2 charges for paper statements. I told a PA team manager to put me on the "exceptions" list which he did. What I like the most about TDDI is the "streaming quotes" feature.

I'm not involved in US dollar conversions....mainly because my RRSP is too small in value. However IMHO; TDDI could easily make the changes that are needed in terms of rrsp FX fees but not enough TDDI investors understand what is going on and how they are being taken advantage of.

Obviously TDDI is making too much money on these FX fees to voluntarily change their ways of doing business.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> no i'm not kidding & you're not talking about a refund for a messed-up bill. You're talking about asking for a special deal - some might call it a bribe - that's worth $82, strictly to offset $82 in FX fees during one year, that you keep on complaining about in this forum.
> 
> after one year, what you going to do? re-negotiate another measley $82 concession?
> 
> ...


This post is kind of ridiculous but carry on---LOL.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

avrex said:


> I submitted the above letter ... to the TD Help forum on Friday at 3:20 pm.
> 
> *As of right now, my post has not appeared on the webpage.
> 
> Let's be patient and see if TD responds by early next week.*



gosh. I wrote to em in may/13. The IIROC regulations require that they reply within 90 days. They are allowed to reply by stating they will take an extension of time.

late in august, on the 93rd day, i received a printed letter in hard copy stating that they required another 60 days.

i finally received an answer in october, nearly 5 months later.

the response focused 100% on the double FX fees being charged on USD DRIP dividends in registered accounts. All other FX issues in my plaint were ignored.

seems it's not exactly green light go over there.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Hey all,

I just wrote TDDI as well...my post hasn't appeared on their public page but hopefully it will next week. I had Avrex vet my email before I sent it 

Our two RRSPs collected about $4,500 USD in dividends last year before forced conversion. Assuming the same 1.6% penalty that's $72. Some of our US holdings DRIP as well, like VTI, JNJ, PG, so with the double-dip I figure I'm losing about $100 to TDDI every year I don't use a USD RRSP.

That works out to $8 per month. Annoying, yes. Enough to switch, maybe this year if the can't get keep their commitment to roll something out end of 2014.

I might lobby for some free trades. That would be good. 

I'm no lawyer, but I suspect you could make a case that TDDI is not very good at disclosure, let alone full disclosure, so you could make a case with the competition bureau. 

I will post the TDDI response when I get it, even if it is a canned response/form letter. *sigh*


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> Some of our US holdings DRIP as well, like VTI, JNJ, PG, so with the double-dip I figure I'm losing about $100 to TDDI every year I don't use a USD RRSP.


It is my understanding that market DRIPs like VTI should wash the FX rates as of Q4 2013. Treasury DRIPs like JNJ and PG will continue to double-dip.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Looking through the last few ETF market drips with TDDI in my non-reg acct. it seems TDDI is dripping at pretty much the highest market price on that given day.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, but given their (TDDI's) proven behavior patterns, it does warrant some looking into.

When I have some time I'll check over my non-reg. market drips.
If they are doing this consistently I'll be moving my non-registered account out too, along with my TFSA & RSP.
Incidentally, my non-r is by far the biggest chunk of my portfolio.

I do have the feeling that TDDI is quietly waiting it out for all of us that are aware of their slimy behavior to leave so that they can continue to keep silently fleecing the ignorant.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Small update for CIBC FX rate (buys):

Jan 24 CIBC rate 1.10750, BoC noon 1.1062	

Jan 23 CIBC rate 1.11250, BoC noon 1.113	

Jan 24 (record date Jan 16) Goldcorp dividend: CIBC FX rate 1.112	
Boc rate on record 1.0926
Boc rate on paymant: 1.1062
Looks like i got better FX rate than BoC's

HP, what was you FX in TDDI?


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> Looking through the last few ETF market drips with TDDI in my non-reg acct. it seems TDDI is dripping at pretty much the highest market price on that given day.
> .......


If you have an example? I don't believe TD sets the drip price, that's set by the issuer - you can check their website for the drip price


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

when it's a treasury drip yes, but when it's a market drip the brokerage buys the shares on the open market.
I'll take a closer look at all my older market drips later for comparison.
It's a little off topic on this thread so I might start a new one when I have the numbers, to avoid confusion/distraction here.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor said:


> Jan 24 CIBC rate 1.10750, BoC noon 1.1062
> 
> HP, what was you FX in TDDI?



gibor i'm going with the jan 24 BOC noon rate of 1.1062.

for the goldcorp DRIP div, td converted at 1.0945.

this represents an FX fee on TD's part of 1.07%, which is the lowest i've ever seen em charge.

however, a fee of 1.07% is still an extremely far cry from the zero-FX-wash feature that they promised the new patch would deliver.

my conclusion is that the so-called patch - which was supposed to cure all USD DRIP dividends in registered accounts - is failing, at least in parts.

the fault may be that the patch fails for USD DRIP dividends from canadian companies. I'm suggesting this because other reliable posters have volunteered here that some recent USD DRIP dividends - from ETFs i believe - were indeed being converted in TD rrsp without any FX fees.


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## fersure (Apr 19, 2009)

Just as an aside, I see Gordon Pape (whose newsletters, in part, are reprinted in TDDI's research section), came out strongly in favour of purchasing Canadian companies that pay dividends/distributions in $US. No conflict of interest there on TD's part.:rolleyes2:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fersure the issue of hidden broker FX fees on 20-important-canadian-companies-that-pay-USD-dividends is an all-broker issue, not just a TD issue

they are *all* doing it
tch

did mister Pape know to tell his readers that they should keep their 20-important-canadians-etc in a USD account, never in a CAD account, because in CAD account the broker is going to charge high FX fees on the dividends?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Pape's idea makes no sense to me. Pick stocks based on the currency of the dividend? Seems rather silly.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

For sure GoldStone. Or, Pape has no clue.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

avrex? advisor? did anybody manage to land anything on td's social media page?

what i find is that every rep has a different idea about what's going on with USD dividends in rrsp. Some have no clue at all.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

The letter in my original post, never appeared on the TD Helps website. It was obviously *rejected.*
Maybe they didn't like me mentioning the embarrassing delay of their USD RRSP. 
Or maybe when they saw that I signed the letter with my URL name (www.AvrexMoney.com), they got scared of potential negative publicity, and rejected the submission.

Instead, I decided to submit a new post. It was accepted. 
Please see this post from Rob of Mississauga, that I wrote.

If you'll recall, in my original post, my hope was that the new *Foreign Exchange Wash Service*, that TD announced in mid-Dec 2013, would apply to US Dividends.

*Bottom line:*
-* Bad news. Cash Dividends. * The new 'Foreign Exchange Wash Service' does not apply. 
*USD dividends that are paid as cash are still subject to currency conversion fees.*
- *DRIP*. The only way to avoid currency conversion fees is if you enroll each of your US dividend stocks in the *DRIP* program (1-800-465-5463). 
So, *if you like to DRIP, good news* for you. (Note: Market DRIP only. Treasury DRIP is not eligible.)


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Your question about an update is timely....I got this in my inbox today:

Here is Stephanie Mahony's reply:

Hi Mark,

Thanks so much for reaching out and I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. I would like the opportunity to connect you with a Senior Manager who can discuss your concerns in more detail. At your earliest convenience, please send me an email at [email protected] with the time and best number to reach you.

Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Stephanie Mahony

TD Helps Team

I gave Stephanie my contact information and she forwarded that to a Senior Manager at TD. I'm waiting for my call. If I don't get one by early next week, I will email Stephanie back. 

@Avrex, it's possible they saw you were a blogger and didn't reply, but even more reason they should actually. I would have, in a management role at TD Bank, but hard to predict why people do what they do....

This was my email:

Hello,

I know that TDDI does not have a US $$ component to their RRSP plan; however, when will this be available??

I hold US Stocks in my TDDI RRSP account. These US companies pay out their dividends in US dollars (USD). My TDDI RRSP has long been enrolled in the original auto washing program and it is my expectation is that these dividends should have been autowashed and deposited directly as USD into my TD US Money Market Fund (TDB166) when DRIPping US investments has not been set up.

This is not occurring.....

On top of that....there appears to be a "double dip" foreign exchange conversion on US investments when they are set up for DRIPs. US Dollar dividends are converted to Canadian dollars at a rate higher than the spot rate. With my synthetic DRIP, it seems the Canadian dollar dividends are again converted to US Dollars. In effect, because I am DRIPping some of my US investments I'm paying as much as 3% or more in foreign currency conversion charges.

I understand that TDDI is working on a long-term solution to provide clients with a 'pure' USD $$$ RRSP, similar to their competitors, which TDDI is lagging WAY BEHIND by the way but the timelines on this account keep changing.

I've heard that this is an issue with technology and the implementation of a new platform that will require some time (last estimate is Dec 2014).

I'm willing to be patient for these changes but not much longer.

A number of other passionate investors on Canadian Money Forum who hold TDDI accounts are thinking of jumping from TDDI, some have already left TDDI, and I might do the same.

In fact, a prominent blogger has posted articles about your lack of USD $$$ RRSP to raise the awareness to investors, and has recently jumped from TDDI for that reason:

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/td-direct-invest.../

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/why-i-moved-to-b.../

Please provide feedback on how I can keep my USD dividends as USD to minimize currency conversion fees.

I want to hear from you, including a firm deadline on when USD $$$ RRSPs will be implemented.

Mark

Keep the thread alive and I will keep you posted.....


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

avrex said:


> *Bottom line:*
> -* Bad news. Cash Dividends. * The new 'Foreign Exchange Wash Service' does not apply.
> *USD dividends that are paid as cash are still subject to currency conversion fees.*
> - *DRIP*. The only way to avoid currency conversion fees is if you enroll each of your US dividend stocks in the *DRIP* program (1-800-465-5463).
> So, *if you like to DRIP, good news* for you. (Note: Market DRIP only. Treasury DRIP is not eligible.)


I was thinking why market DRIPs are eligible while treasury DRIPs are not. Call me cynical, but here's one possible explanation.

TDDI does not control the DRIP price of the treasury DRIPs; the company does. To eliminate forex fees associated with the treasury DRIPs, TDDI has to give up some revenue. Not so with market DRIPs. TDDI can easily add a mark-up. Buy the shares in the market at one price, then turn around and DRIP them at a slightly higher price. Voila, their revenue stream is intact.

This is just a wild speculation on my part. I have no proof they do this.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

GoldStone said:


> I was thinking why market DRIPs are eligible while treasury DRIPs are not. Call me cynical, but here's one possible explanation.
> 
> TDDI does not control the DRIP price of the treasury DRIPs; the company does. To eliminate forex fees associated with the treasury DRIPs, TDDI has to give up some revenue. Not so with market DRIPs. TDDI can easily add a mark-up. Buy the shares in the market at one price, then turn around and DRIP them at a slightly higher price. Voila, their revenue stream is intact.
> 
> This is just a wild speculation on my part. I have no proof they do this.


Actually, scratch that. TDDI says that treasury DRIPs are not eligible. This is a moot point I think. 

As far as I remember, treasury DRIPs by US companies have never been an issue. The dividend paying company drips the dividend at the right price without forex conversion. I don't drip any US stocks so I can't verify this. But I recall the posts by cardhu(?) who argued vehemently that forex double-dipping does not impact treasury DRIPs.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Hey Avrex, I posted the following question in your TD thread. Let's see if they approve and respond.



> Hi Stephanie,
> 
> I would like to enroll my US ETFs in the Market DRIP program, to save on forex fees that I currently pay on distributions in cash.
> 
> ...


Signed as Roger to honor Roger Federer.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

^ A very good question, Roger. :encouragement:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

avrex said:


> *DRIP*. The only way to avoid currency conversion fees is if you enroll each of your US dividend stocks in the *DRIP* program (1-800-465-5463).
> So, *if you like to DRIP, good news* for you. (Note: Market DRIP only. Treasury DRIP is not eligible.)



a prob in my reg'd account is that i deliberately enrolled 700 goldcorp shares in the market DRIP program. I picked G because it pays a dividend every single month, so plenty of opportunities to monitor what tddi is doing with its famous "patch." Or shall we say infamous patch.

alas tddi is still charging healthy FX fees on every goldcorp dividend. It's DRIPPing alright, but only after the FX fee has been taken out.

it never occurred to me to actually check the DRIP prices. These are across a 5-day period of time, i believe? so a lot of work to monitor.

i know that back in the day when CPG paid something like a 2% premium on dividends, Canaccord ran the DRIP book for all the brokers. Canaccord got a bulk discount from CPG itself, then parcelled out the dividends to all the brokers for a few basis points higher. This is all history now; however a similar complex operation would likely be in place for most market DRIPs. One broker would act as control centre for the operation & all the others would go along.

this does not bother me nearly as much as the outright charging of FX fees on dividends. Because such dividend charges are inescapable. Investors who don't like the hidden collection of a few pennies by brokers via DRIP programs can easily opt out. But no investor can opt out of hidden FX fees charged upon USD dividends.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> this does not bother me nearly as much as the outright charging of FX fees on dividends. Because such dividend charges are inescapable. Investors who don't like the hidden collection of a few pennies by brokers via DRIP programs can easily opt out. But no investor can opt out of hidden FX fees charged upon USD dividends.


A few pennies? Let's see.

Goldcorp today:

VWAP price: 26.839604
Day high: 27.20

If they buy at VWAP price but DRIP at the day high, that's a spread of 1.34%. Almost as bad as FX fee.

Again, I don't know if they do this or not.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

you could be right, the markup percentages could very well be similar. But it would be the volume of dividends compared to the volume of DRIPs that would concern me. A couple discount reps have told me that the number of investors who DRIP is relatively few. However most investors do receive dividends ...


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

My point is, TDDI can get us one way or the other, if they really want to. It's either FX fee or bad DRIP pricing. There's no escape other than to move the accounts.

It's a different story at a broker with a true USD RRSP. There you can choose to DRIP or not to DRIP based on how fair/unfair DRIP pricing is. There is no penalty for not dripping.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

yes u are right, i totally agree. Personally i think dual-currency registered accounts have the edge, so investors can easily accumulate greenbacks in their native state with no FX fee, thus increasing the potential for US dollar gain.

but gold u know how altruistic i am, how i'm always thinking nobly of the big picture & caring truly madly deeply while caring only for the inherent rights of all investors everywhere, world without end ...


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Roger's question has been answered by TD Helps.



> When it comes to Market DRIPs, TD buys shares on the open market, just like any other client would, and *we do not mark up prices or make a profit* from these transactions.
> As a matter of fact, the market DRIP is a commission free trade so the firm does not even make commissions.
> Also note that when it comes to DRIPs, TD only pays for whole shares which means you would get cash in lieu for the fractional shares.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

HP, you will be happy to learn that I didn't get the free trades as I wanted to. Remember our lively discussion a few pages back?

The nice lady I talked to said that (a) forced conversion is a technical limitation in the system, (b) it affects all customers equally, and (c) they don't refund the FX fees, even as free trades. She was nice and friendly, so I didn't press the issue.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

After transfering RRSP from TDDI to CIBC EI, made today first trade for US stock (MCD), because I have 50 free trades until Apr 24, I'm buying in very small chunks on small dips.
BoC noon rate 1.1048, I got charged 1.1057
. Pretty satisfied.

_I didn't press the issue. _ you could've press the issue  couple of months back , I complained about FX rates , gave some real numbers , asked for 50 free trades, but got only 10 (as rebate to my account).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> HP, you will be happy to learn that I didn't get the free trades as I wanted to. Remember our lively discussion a few pages back?
> 
> The nice lady I talked to said that (a) forced conversion is a technical limitation in the system, (b) it affects all customers equally, and (c) they don't refund the FX fees, even as free trades. She was nice and friendly, so I didn't press the issue.



ah, how quickly you did succumb to the blandishments of the fairer sex each:


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Anyone got US dividends on Friday? 
I got for ABBV, FX 1.097260274 for dividend convertion and 1.09726997 for DRIP


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

gibor said:


> Anyone got US dividends on Friday?
> I got for ABBV, FX 1.097260274 for dividend convertion and 1.09726997 for DRIP


Seems fair, this is with CIBC I assume?

Don't know offhand what either BoC rate or the market spot rate was in the morning or noon on friday, but the BoC closing rate on friday was 1.0983, less than one tenth of a percent higher than what you got.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> Seems fair, this is with CIBC I assume?
> 
> Don't know offhand what either BoC rate or the market spot rate was in the morning or noon on friday, but the BoC closing rate on friday was 1.0983, less than one tenth of a percent higher than what you got.


Yes, with CIBC.... BoC noon rate was 1.0981, so it's pretty fair :


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi All,

So, you might recall I wrote TDDI. They responded.

Here is what I recently negotiated.

As a go-forward, for 2014, they assured me my US DRIPs were part of the auto-wash program. 

Last year, I made about $4,500 USD in dividends before the forced conversion. Assuming the same 1.6% penalty that's $72 I lost

Going forward, this means I would lose about $72 (or just a bit more) for the USD > CDN $$ conversion for non-U.S. DRIPs.

After calling TDDI and talking to a senior manager there recently, although I have some negotiations still to do on this, I am confident there are going to provide me with a "courtesy credit" for the USD > CDN $$ for non-U.S. DRIPs. 

I've been pressing hard for the USD RRSP so maybe this is an exceptional case on my part. Your mileage may vary but it never hurts to be courteous and persistent I guess....especially on this issue. 

The alternative? Switching to BMO or RBC sooner than later.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Yeah, you need be persistent...after long negotiations I got some credit $ .... and I had about same dividends in US$ (however if you DRIP you pay FX twice) , but considering that I still be charged huge FX rate on all US buys/sells or I need to do "gambit" and pay $20 trading fees for every gambit, I moved to CIBC IE getting 50 free trades, $200 bonus, 6.95 per trade and all transaction at BoC spot rate.

btw, what I didn't like in BMO - they don't do DRIP on US securities, you MUST get them in US cash, I personally prefer DRIP at BoC spot rate than US cash


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Yes, no DRIP on U.S. securities is not great, but if you hold indexed products like VTI, not really a big deal, since you likely re-balance once per year. If you hold about 10 U.S. stocks like I do, most of them DRIPping, a bigger deal since you have to pay commissions to buy.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

aww advisor, you sold out!

all those hours of complaining here plus hours of negotiating with the big green ... & you were willing to settle for a measley $72 & change?

see how they're picking you all off one by one with picayune little side deals? (sigh) (the early days of union organizing must have been like this)

me i was wanting to sound the revolutionary shofar. Start the boston tea party. Never a thought for oneself. Instead, exhort, persuade, force the big green to start paying USD dividends at spot/bank of canada rates to all clients, in all registered accounts.

none of those measley patchwork individual settlements.

(signed)
patrick henry pie
boston, 1776


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I wonder how they can keep up with making a deal one customer at a time , eventually they have to come up with a bulk solution.Not to derail topic but figure you guys will know this , can you hold USD at CIBC in rsp?I am moving some stuff and prefer CIBC but obviously not if I will have same issue as with TD.


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## Uranium101 (Nov 18, 2011)

TD, BMO, Questrade, Qtrade, can hold USD balance. Why not leave TDW and show then a thing or two about keeping their promisses? They promissed USD in registered accounts for many years.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Hey now humble pie!

It's a real pain to change brokerages, so if I get the same deal with big green, get the equivalent of the USD $$ RRSP at TDDI, then I'm not sure it's worth switching.

I will continue to negotiate with them every few months to get what I want. The good news is, I can continue to DRIP my U.S. stocks with TDDI and not so, with BMO.

Now, if I can get / force the big green to start paying USD dividends at spot/bank of canada rates to all clients, well, then my work is done. I will keep pushing humble!

The good news about the guys I talked to a TDDI, he said about lack of USD $$$ RRSP and TFSA: "I don't really have a good answer why this isn't priority # 1. I know everything I tell you will be pretty weak." At least he was honest, which was great


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

At TDDI it's upper management problems imho.
In my experience, the front line staff has always been great


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

marina628 said:


> I am moving some stuff and prefer CIBC but obviously not if I will have same issue as with TD.


Their system is the same but *unlike* TD they are converting $ at market spot rate in reg. accts so if you are holding some CDN cash in there but would prefer to be holding USD, I would assume there are products available to do so, which can be bought at CIBC at market spot rate, so no, not same issue as with TD.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

mrPPincer said:


> At TDDI it's upper management problems imho.
> In my experience, the front line staff has always been great


I think so. They seriously missed the boat on the USD $$$ RRSP and TFSA. Playing catch-up now and I will do my part to push the issue.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> Their system is the same but *unlike* TD they are converting $ at market spot rate in reg. accts so if you are holding some CDN cash in there but would prefer to be holding USD, I would assume there are products available to do so, which can be bought at CIBC at market spot rate, so no, not same issue as with TD.


I have both CAD and USD I want to invest in USD stocks but this would be non registered accounts.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

marina628 said:


> I have both CAD and USD I want to invest in USD stocks but this would be non registered accounts.


Marina, CIBC gives you BoC spot rates ONLY for registered accounts..... How they deal with cash accounts, I don't know, don't hold it....


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> It's a real pain to change brokerages, so if I get the same deal with big green, get the equivalent of the USD $$ RRSP at TDDI, then I'm not sure it's worth switching.
> 
> I will continue to negotiate with them every few months to get what I want. The good news is, I can continue to DRIP my U.S. stocks with TDDI and not so, with BMO.
> 
> ...


I thought it's a "real pain to change brokerages", but so far it was OK ... I did prectically everything online and very fast....The only things that pending now: GIC - I was told that TD should physically send GIC certificate to CIBC and this is can take weeks and I continue to get dividends to TD account and they suppose transfer them automatically to CIBC...

MOA, when I talked to TDDI managers 2-3 months ago, they assured me that USD RRSP is the 1st priority  looks like priority got downgraded


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor said:


> when I talked to TDDI managers 2-3 months ago, they assured me that USD RRSP is the 1st priority  looks like priority got downgraded


there is such a split between tddi managers ... 

the honest ones are stating the truth. That a dual-currency rrsp is being developed but not expected until 2015.

these same honest managers also stated, in the mid-spring of 2013, that the firmly-promised-USD-rrsp-by-late-spring-2013, would not materialize until 2014 at the earliest, if then.

i've heard those messages & i've respected the parties who offered them.

what i don't respect is the management ethic that has trained so many frontline TD representatives to keep repeating - foolishly - that a USD rrsp is "coming soon." This mantra now sounds ridiculous.

nor do i respect a management that wastes its time fiddling out picayune little deals of a few dollars here or a few dollars there, but only to clients who complain a lot. What, may i ask, about all the other clients - some are here in this forum - who are too busy to complain? or who wouldn't bother to ask for pennies?

what i believe happened fairly recently at the big green is that their software developers had been focused for perhaps 2 years now on building a dual-currency platform on top of the existing ISM system. The latest delay to 2015 plus a couple of interesting leaks are telling me that this plan has been scotched because, in the end, they found that they couldn't get the notoriously resistant IBM mainframe to bend itself around canadian rrsp regulations. 

rumour suggests the big green has recently begun searching for another mainframe. A problem could be that they've done this in the past. Think or swim was bought several years ago as a possible new mainframe. Didn't work out. Couple of years ago tddi reportedly thought it could adapt trade architect from TD ameritrade. Didn't work out either.

may i mention again in TD's defence - as i've mentioned so often in the past - that no other ISM leasing broker has ever been able to build a canadian rrsp platform either. Scotia iTrade, cibc, hsbc, natbank: all have failed. 

what scotia & cibc have done is deliver USD dividends converted to CAD at spot/bank of canada rates. That's pretty awesome. TDDI should start doing that pronto, imho. The gesture will buy them time to find or build a different mainframe.

back to the brainwashed tddi representatives who keep babbling on about how a USD rrsp is coming "soon," i've taken to telling them that time has beyond run out for this claim. That they no longer have the right to speak such false disinformation. That it is misleading clients.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

marina628 said:


> I have both CAD and USD I want to invest in USD stocks but this would be non registered accounts.


If it's non-reg, TDDI has a USD non-reg and you will not have an issue.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

marina628 said:


> I have both CAD and USD I want to invest in USD stocks but this would be non registered accounts.


?? one wonders in what kind of non-registered account have u been investing in US stocks thus far?

most of this thread is about *registered* accounts. These are where the currency conversions at the mono-currency CAD registered account brokers occur.

there should be zero problems with US stocks in non-registered at any broker.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_what i don't respect is the management ethic that has trained so many frontline TD representatives to keep repeating - foolishly - that a USD rrsp is "coming soon." This mantra now sounds ridiculous._ 
not only reps, but also one manager told me that USD RRSP will be implemented in June 2014, and other told me that in Q1 2015 at earliest.
and when I asked why they don't offer than preferable FX rate for now (like CIBC does) and I gave them real numbers from my account....I got ridiculous answer that "TDDI has competitive FX rates" 
This is was last drop that forced me to move to CIBC...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor said:


> other [TD manager] told me that in Q1 2015 at earliest


this one was the honest manager




> when I asked why they don't offer than preferable FX rate for now (like CIBC does) and I gave them real numbers from my account....I got ridiculous answer that "TDDI has competitive FX rates"


yes we dealt with this remark already, it was not accurate




> This was last drop that forced me to move to CIBC...


good for you, i think u chose well & will be happy now each:


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ?? one wonders in what kind of non-registered account have u been investing in US stocks thus far?
> 
> most of this thread is about *registered* accounts. These are where the currency conversions at the mono-currency CAD registered account brokers occur.
> 
> there should be zero problems with US stocks in non-registered at any broker.


8 games of poker and a forum should not be allowed  Yes I have a US AND CASH account at TD and know how to do that .


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

marina just ottomh would not a bmo or roybank or interactive brokers non-registered account be a good deal for you?

in order to access the fabulous gambit trading at ry & bmo or the equally fabulous forex trading at ib.

the prob with tddi non-registered is that, in non-registered, client has to phone a licensed representative to do the sell side of a gambit operation. This means paying the full agent-handled commish.

at bmo or roybank, both sides of a gambit are carried out online & instantly in a non-registered account. One side right after the other, split second apart. The commissions are a flat rate $9.95 each. A currency gambitter could arb nearly 100k by buying 2000 shares of td on new york, then selling 2000 shares on toronto, for less than $20. Truly it's a bargain. Just imagine what one would pay at the bank.

i am mentioning this against the day when you may wish to bring all those poker winnings home each:


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

HP We opened accounts at RBC recently for that reason although we just have cash sitting there for now.I bring the winnings home most weeks although last night I got my *** kicked.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> good for you, i think u chose well & will be happy now each:


So far so good, just check one of the last trades...I got FX rate better than BoC noon rate


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