# Engagement Diamond Opinions please?



## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I didn't know if this should be posted under frugality, cause it's not really about 'frugality' persay.

I just thought I'd poll the opinion of money like-minded people here and see their thoughts.

So the story goes is that I was in a previous relationship with a girl, we got engaged, it didn't work out. I have the ring still.

The ring I bought her then was: $6900 diamond, $900 platinum band, from Blue Nile, 0.96 carats, H color, VS1, signature ideal cut.

Fast forward to now and I am wanting to get engaged again, I've met an excellent girl and I want to go the distance with her.

So I still have the previous Blue Nile ring. I've found that trying to sell the ring is worthless, as I'd be lucky to get 20% of the spend back...

So I found out that Blue Nile has an upgrade program where you can send back the previous ring, and they will give you the credit value of the diamond, and a value on the ring (unknown, value, they will gauge it upon receipt), and you can use that credit towards purchase of something new provided that is at least 100% more the value of your original, or in this case ~$14000. So now I'm in a fairly pricey range of diamond purchasing, and I feel a bit out of my comfort zone here.

Anyways, my question comes down to this, for those who know about diamonds, which would you rather go for?

1. 1.50 carat, H color, VS1, signature ideal cut, round brilliant?

or 

2. 1.25 carat G color, VVS2, signature ideal cut, round brilliant?

Assuming they both cost the same (~14-16k)?

The prospective fiancee would be blown away by either really (I think she is hoping for near a carat).

For the girls: is there such a thing as too big of a ring? She is size 5.5. Would she ever be like 'Oh god I don't like it I wish he had gotten something smaller...?

For the guys: is there more pride value in her having the bigger diamond or the 'higher graded' diamond?

My gut is telling me that the first option is the better one, but what do people think?

Thanks!


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

Did you tell your current girl about the ring? Did she ever see it ? 

If she does NOT know about it, how would you feel to give current girl the ring you currently have, no change ?

Honestly, diamonds engagement rings are scam, as you currently notice with the stupid buy-back offers.

They are not investments, they are pure expense. There is no pride for the guy giving them, the only thing is the money gone and hoping the girl is fine with the ring.

If she is hoping for 1 carat and you currently have a 0.96 carat... why more ? Could you buy a different band and ask the place to put the current diamond on it ?

Disclosure: I am engaged, but will never marry. I did not spend that much on the ring and my fiancee is really happy with the ring. I spent the money and I value the ring as $0.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Within my price range I opted for a slightly higher quality, yet smaller diamond that better suited the proportions of the ring design. A full carat was nice but it was bulky and would really catch on a lot of things. I also had a diamond with more cuts so it looks much brighter and sparkles more than other ring so it somewhat stands out among other rings. 

Any good girl won't care about the size and I care about looks and quality so that's what I emphasized. A Canadian diamond was very important to my girl (really the only request and it was ethics based) and that added a lot to the price tag which ultimately decreased the size of the diamonds. 

The ring I choose is only something like a 0.4 carat diamond with another 0.4 carats worth of diamonds down the band. It's quant but I don't believe people think I cheaper out. They usually comment on how it caught there eye due to the brilliance of it. I think I choose something like an SI1 with G colour bit I can't remember for sure. My budget was a modest $3000 and I think came in under. 

My girl will get big diamonds when we have the money. For now I am just demonstrating my intentions.


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey Cash,

The Prospective Fiancee knows about the ring, and has never seen it.

I don't want to give it to her as a personal issue. I feel that it was part of my past, and is the last ties to something that is no longer there.
Also, our families are Chinese and it would be bad honor to do that, and I don't really want to.

My prospective fiancee kind of thinks I can get just 'straight' credit from Blue nile for the ring, which is why she has picked out a design for her ring from the site she likes and has told me about. So she's basically thinking I'm 'exchanging' straight up the old for a similar priced new, so I think she'll be blown away when she gets something much more.

So really for me it's not about the cost- the cost is fixed in my mind. My thought is about 'which is better value for the fixed cost'?


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't have the views of cashinstinct. My trade program guarantees the purchase value towards an upgrade, but ultimately that value decreases with inflation. It may be better to sell it down the road. 

My grandmother's ring was appraised at $30k when she passed away and my grandfather bought it at a pawn shop when he was broke. 

I think it's silly to spend over a few grand on a ring. The money is better spent on a vacation or something you value highly. If you are buying it because it is accepted practice than you are doing it for the wrong reason.


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey guys,

Thank you for the opinions, I appreciate them.

I know many people probably are not going to agree with my choice of spend here, and that is fine. Purchases like these involve many influences, cultural, personal, emotional etc.

I guess the point of my post is not to ask if I'm making a smart move or not, that's debatable.

My question as stated above, for those who have bought diamonds before, is, which of the two scenarios would you pick GIVEN that the cost is non-issue?

Thanks!


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

Sorry I did not want to turn this into a "worth it or not" debate... 

I understand the psychological reasons, it's a personal choice / values. I know it's not something the society would accept, but we are in a money forum after all 

However, don't try to justify any amount spent as good value or anything, it's an expense that's all. As for the pick, I can't help, I have no idea what these numbers mean.... 

I spent around 3k too on the ring/diamond, she likes it, it's alright I spent 3k and invested $0. I have no idea on the carat / color, I picked something that looked great for me and was in the style my fiancee wanted.

Appraisal value... what matters is the what-can-you-sell-it-for value  They could tell me the ring is appraised at 4k or 5k or whatever... but if I bring it back, how much they give me ? that's the real value on the market. Not that it matters though, since it's not an investment.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Well, I don't know about diamonds, but being frugal, I would certainly want to be consulted before my fiance spent 14-16K on something I was expected to wear. 

Is your fiance a modern woman? Could you consult her without her family finding out? I would have been flattered but appalled that my sweetie was expecting to spend so much.

IMHO it is certainly possible to get too big a diamond, and recycling a stone into a different setting would count as a new ring, but what matters is her opinion, not mine.


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## tiffbou2 (Jul 4, 2013)

I'd definitely not give her the old ring!
I would opt for the smaller ring with nicer diamond. Anything over 1 carat seems huge to me. 
Honestly, most women I know are really into the idea of the ring for the year or so of the engagement, but soon after the wedding, such considerations will fade into the background.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Given the choice between those 2, I would get the smaller higher quality one. It is definitely possible for a stone to be too big, especially if your lady has smaller hands. (I am a woman.)


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

Propose with the cheapest ring you can find. If she says yes, you know she's a keeper. ;-)


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

If you don't want to give her the old ring, I vote for the larger one. Cut is most important (both are ideal, so no difference), colour is only 1 grade apart (virtually no difference), and clarity is minimally different as well (neither should have visible inclusions to the naked eye, and of the stone characteristics clarity has the smallest effect on appearance relative to price). Essentially equal stones, so get the larger one.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Taraz said:


> Propose with the cheapest ring you can find. If she says yes, you know she's a keeper. ;-)


+1


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I would ask what your girl values more, size or quality and then go with the big one or find something higher quality but the same price range. Those two diamonds are very average at best. 

I would go with something with excellent clarity and colour even though it would be smaller. 

It's kinda what you think your girl appreciates more. I know mine, can't say what yours is like... except that she's hoping for one carat.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

I would choose ring 1.
Do NOT give the old ring to her.
You would know best what she likes, if not ask her. I would love a huge rock.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd go with the smaller one. Or better yet, something even cheaper.

I proposed to my wife while we were in Hawaii. We live in Canada but my plan was to propose while we were on our vacation in Hawaii. I definitely wasn't going to risk spending thousands on a ring only to have the luggage go missing. 

I ended up using a dummy ring worth about $20 that the store keeps for situations like mine. It looks similar but the actual diamond isn't a diamond at all. 

When I got down on one knee she was so surprised she didn't even notice, she was so happy she cried.

When we got back home we picked out a small (and affordable) ring with a real diamond in it. Something she loved but we could also afford.

The '3 months salary' rule is bull. Just buy something practical and small, and if she isn't ok with that maybe reconsider proposing.


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## Letran (Apr 7, 2014)

I see your predicament there.

My gut tells me Option 1. The color is indistinguishable (by a naked eye) and so are the inclusions. 

But first let me ask. Is this about a month worth of income for you? (14-16k) or less than a month maybe? Is the wedding expense mostly taken care of or borrowed money? Cause you are kinda setting the tone here.

I guess what I'm saying is if you are already financially stable. Couple of hundred K's liquid net. assets and no debt. (maybe close to getting there) then why the heck not. 

Money is just money. I work hard to make more money I can indulge in times like these. When else are you going to spend your money. Can't take it with you when you go 

Good luck with the engagement. I wish you all the best, and may you and your future bride be blessed in your union. Congrats!


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

To be 100% clear, I think giving the old ring was a bad idea. I was not completely serious by saying this. Even if the girl did not know about the old ring, op knows so it's enough for it to be a bad idea.

I think there is too much social pressure about the size/quality/price of these rings...

Each to their own of course


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Consider having a custom ring made and having the stone you have set in it. Custom jewelry is not necessarily super expensive and it can be something really unique. It also gives you the best chance at not throwing good money after bad on diamonds. Refraining from wading into the diamond cartel's money pit is a good first decision.

When we got engaged, I gave my wife a custom made ring with a largish opal in it, but just small diamonds.


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey all, 

Thanks for the opinions!

So if it helps, the price point is a non issue for me for the following reasons:

1) the ring i have now is worth very little. Diamonds have basically no resale value and if i sold it i would get maybe 1-2k.

2) personally and emotionally i cannot justify 'saving money' because of this from a past relationship. If my previous ex was worth spending 7-8k on then my current one has to be as well! I just wouldnt feel good about myself if i didnt

3) im not spending 15k. Im spending 8k and using the equity from the exs ring. Its value is 1-2k if i sell for cash, or 7k if i trade it in. So im opting for the higher of the two, because im viewing the previous ring as sunk cost- it doesnt matter what i do with it, i personally and emotionally dont want to give the diamond or the ring to the new one

I hope this helps clarify. I know the common advice is to spend less, and i know its not needed and its all marketing and my girl is quality nd doesnt care about size etc.

But placing yourself in my shoes, imagine having this ghost from a previous relationship and you dont want to carry it forward. 

So if i phrased it as:

If ring 1 and ring 2 were both free: which of the two would you personally lean towards? 

Thanks!


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## Itchy54 (Feb 12, 2012)

I have small hands so would prefer the smaller diamond.

I am sure she will be so very happy with either as you sound like a sweetie! Make the moment special, it is what she will remember every time she looks at the ring.

For me, I ditched the diamond hubby gave me as it caught on everything! I have lots of pretty rings and they are in a safety deposit box.....diamonds, sapphires, emeralds.....lovely but just not my thing. Hubby now knows to just take me on a holiday. I also have far too many inherited items.
I wear a silver ring I found run over in a Canadian tire parking lot, it was never claimed and is worth about 10 bucks, lol.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

It depends how much she and her friends know about diamonds ,most untrained eyes would not be able to tell the difference between the two stones but would tell the difference between a 1.25 vs a 1.5 .


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

On topic article that I'm sure has been posted here before. Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond? about how retailers control and manipulate the diamond market. The history of DeBeers. 

I truly hope that you are a massive baller with cash to burn Erome, and that you haven't lost persepctive on what's imporant in life.  

Either way, that is one lucky lady.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Erome said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I didn't know if this should be posted under frugality, cause it's not really about 'frugality' persay.
> 
> ...



Option two is better in my opinion, I would go with a VVS2 over a VVS1. The color is close, but a G is nearly colourless. Everything I have seen about diamonds is go with the best grade and cut over size. 

If she has a smaller hand then a smaller diamond might be justified, but it depends on how 'blingy' she is. If she is a really blingy person then go with the larger. If she knows her diamonds really well, then go with the option two, if she doesn't know diamonds as well, then option 1 because it will have a little more wow factor at first. Either choice though will be great. Don't sweat too much on this decision, it's a win win. 

Disclosure, I am a female, I like diamonds a lot, have research a lot about them, and for me like really large diamonds, but only if they are a high quality.

In terms of the reviving the old ring, I am total agreement with you, It's bad karma to start off an engagement with a ring from a bad experience.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> +1


LOL! +2 ^ for me...If it were me, I want her to get me a Mustang convertible, or maybe that Harley I used to dream about... instead of some overpriced rock ..like that Dutch guy used to say on the old orange TV commercials..(Tangerine?).."Save your money!" .

*This Diamond Ring*


> Who wants to buy this diamond ring?
> She took it off her finger, now it doesn't mean a thing.
> 
> This diamond ring doesn't shine for me anymore,
> ...


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

The '3 months salary' rule is bull. Just buy something practical and small, and if she isn't ok with that maybe reconsider proposing.

Agreed. +1.

Go with the smaller, higher quality ring.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Buy 10k worth of Tiffany stock........on your 25th yr anniversary she will thank-you 
I actually think this would be a cool idea.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

http://touch.groupon.com/deals/gg-ca-150-ctw-certified-diamond-ring-in-14-karat-gold-1/options

Groupon has a 10k ring for 1.5k
Huge sale

Spend the other 14k on Tiffany stock


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

My wife of 33 years is still waiting for an engagement ring...I spent $35 on her wedding ring though which was about the amount I could afford at the time. She thinks baubles are silly, a quality which attracted her to me in the first place.

I like the Tiffany stock idea...genius.

Buying retail diamonds are setting money on fire.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Apparently sexism is not a big deal when it goes the other way? There are also less narcissistic ways to fund warlords in Africa.

Today, people are free to change their minds.. cancel marriage.. get divorced.. The commitment should be equal and reciprocal..


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Hmm. No three month guideline for us. We were both poor students!

Married 40 years as at the end of this past August. Paid $375. for the ring at Birks Peterborough. Probably got engaged because they had a sale...they threw in the wedding band gratis (supposedly)!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

m3s said:


> T*here are also less narcissistic ways to fund warlords in Africa.*
> 
> Today, people are free to change their minds.. cancel marriage.. get divorced.. The commitment should be equal and reciprocal..


Yes, but initially, that big diamond gives one bragging rights...'Wow!..he gave you a 1 carat engagement diamond ring!...lucky girl!"

later...

"Dear Abby, my gf and I broke up, and I'm still paying for a 1 carat ring I gave her...what should I do..should I ask for it back?..and it is ok to give to the next one that promises to marry me?"

Upon return of the 1 carat ring, the pawnbroker jeweller examining the ring.." how much did you pay for this ring?...it is only worth this <much> to me...take it or leave it":biggrin:


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

The retail markup on jewellery is really large, no wonder they don't want it back. That's why you see half price sales all the time at jewellery stores and they are still making good money. I would just shop around and sell the old ring for as much as you can and then go buy a new ring, that trade-in deal sounds like a con. I'm from the old school where we bought what we could afford, it's just a token. Heck, my wife doesn't even wear her rings these days, happily married for 36 years.


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## FinancialPanther (Jul 13, 2013)

I feel like I could add some input, since I just did a lot of research recently.

Regarding selling the old diamond: I would try eBay. If you have the original GIA/AGS certificate, post it and you should get bids. Maybe not 100% of the price, but a solid 80% may be feasible. 

For the new diamond, from the 2 of your pics, I would choose the first, simply because it is bigger. You are basically comparing size vs clarity for your 2 choices. For myself, I would save some extra cash and go for an even lower clarity (say SI1). Why? Because it is still going to be eye clean at this level (ie it will look the same under the naked eye). Unless your gf is taking a magnifying glass to it or has a sentimental need for the diamond to be as flawless as possible, it will not make any difference. Certainly, with the choices you posted, she (and others) will 100% notice the increase in size vs the increase in clarity. Ideal cut is the way to go though, good choice (cut is the most important). You may want to run it through the HCA tool to see the light performance also.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Yes, but initially, that big diamond gives one bragging rights...'Wow!..he gave you a 1 carat engagement diamond ring!...lucky girl!"
> 
> later... ...


 ... lol, nasty. :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Erome said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Thanks for the opinions!
> 
> ...


 .. the answer is: pick the stone that fits the design that she's picked out already as per your post #4 if money is of no object. Good luck.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Go with the 1.25 C, VVS2.

Better clarity > Bigger Diamond

Quality of the diamond is more rare than how big it is. I would always settle for a lower carat if it meant a better quality.
Also, think of it this way, .25 of a carat is really not any different. It's not going to be noticeably different unless you are STARING at them side by side. But you know the quality of VVS2 will always be there.


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## Feruk (Aug 15, 2012)

Any particular reason why you're on round cut? A smaller diamond can look bigger with a different cut. Maybe a princess cut. Also the carat weight and the percieved size can vary a lot with dimensions. You can buy a 1kt diamond that looks anywhere from 0.8kt to 1.2kt just depending on the ratio of the width to height.

If your old ring that you spent $8k on can be purchased online for $1-2k, wouldn't the smart thing be to go online and buy an "8k" ring for $1-2k?? Why are you avoiding the obvious here? Where exactly do you think the diamond you'll purchase from a jeweler is gonna come from? A diamond mine? Possible, but not necessairly. Why wouldn't you cut out the middle man taking a 400%+ cut??


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## Y3LLoWF3LLoW (Sep 30, 2013)

I know you probably want to spend a little money because that signifies a sacrifice. and thats what our culture basically tells us its supposed to be. it supposed to be something that hurts you where it counts, your pocket. Just so that this isnt taken lightly.

But if you have the mental strength to overcome that, you'd be making the smart choice financially. Why dont you just have the diamond reset into the band that she wants? Go to a custom jeweler and have them make it with that diamond. The gold from the original can be sold and probably worth more of its original value.

I think thats what I would do.


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## Namael (Jul 14, 2013)

I spent a lot of time researching diamonds when I was looking for an engagement ring. I would stay away from low quality high carat diamonds. After 1 carat in size, quality matters. When you compare a 1 carat high quality stone (VVS2, D color, excellent cut), to a lower quality higher carat stone, you can easily tell the difference. The sweet spot is just under 1 carat, and usually diamonds that are 0.9-0.99 carat were accidently cut too small, and therefore they are not able to charge the "1 carat+ premium". If I were you, I would look for a 0.95-0.99 carat stone, F+ or higher color, and VS1+ clarity. 

I just priced out (4 months ago) a 1.4 carat, H color, VS2 diamond, and I was able to purchase it for roughly ~$4.5k USD. I ended up going for a 1.1 carat, color D, VVS 2 stone for roughly $7.5k USD about 4 months ago. The ring cost me total ~9k once I added the platinum ring + side diamonds. Btw make sure you ask the quality of the side diamonds, because this is where they make their money. All my side diamonds are minimum color E and minimum VS1. It really makes a huge difference when comparing rings. 

My fiance loves her ring. Any bigger and she says it would of looked too big for her hand. We get tons of compliments on it, and people will notice it from far away cause the shine and sparkle is very noticeable when the quality is higher. Also, buy her something nice, girls want to show it off, even if they say they don't. 

In my culture, marriage is for life. And while there is always a chance of divorce, I am of the belief that marriage is for life so I wanted a ring that would last forever. 

As for the appraisals, they are a complete joke. I went to a separate appraisal company after I got my ring and they appraised it for 31k. Just goes to show you how unrealistic appraisals are.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... lol, nasty. :biggrin:


Just stating an opinion from one that been through "love and marriage"..they don't necessarily go together like a "horse and carriage".:indecisiveness:

I think there are many other ways to show one is committed to each other than having to go out and buyoing an overpriced "rock" just because it's traditionally excepted. But then..I see lots of celebrities that were married before, choose to get married in a white wedding gown that some say is worth "thousands" because it's some designer's gown.
..ahem..what is that all about..it's got to be "braggin' rights" again... and sometimes you hear..."we got married and our wedding costs us thousands..now we are deeply in debt....:biggrin:


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## john williams (Sep 12, 2014)

I agree with you. After all woman knows better about other women choices.


Spudd said:


> Given the choice between those 2, I would get the smaller higher quality one. It is definitely possible for a stone to be too big, especially if your lady has smaller hands. (I am a woman.)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Of course, you're right to merely state an opinion since the OP did ask for and get them "opinions please". :biggrin: 

But at the same time, he did also state in his first post, 



> I know if this should be posted under frugality, *cause it's not really about 'frugality*' persay.
> 
> I just thought I'd poll the opinion of *money like-minded people *here and see their thoughts. ...


 and later posts read that money is not a problem so it would seem obvious about impressing a potential fianceé because his gf may have more $$$,$$$,$$$ than him. :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Of course, you're right to merely state an opinion since the OP did ask for and get them "opinions please". :biggrin:
> 
> But at the same time, he did also state in his first post,
> 
> and later posts read that money is not a problem so it would seem obvious about impressing a potential fianceé because his gf may have more $$$,$$$,$$$ than him. :biggrin:


Beav, I never thought of it that way from different perspective on "love and marriage" 
Yes, of course, if the fiancée is from a wealthy family that can bring $$$$$ into their married relationship, and 
they can live without the constant fear of overspending then running into money problems,
then maybe it IS an "investment" on future prosperity. 

This would be similar to a "dowry" (in reverse), practised in some religions/castes, where the arranged marriage bride comes with some "sizeable bounty" from her family to start their marriage off on the right foot. 
Now in that case, it does make some difference since money makes the world go round as they say, and without money (or for those deeply in debt) you are not regarded in the same esteem as those that 'have made it".

Diamonds are symbol of wealth, of being able to afford all the luxuries that a potential suitor can offer his intended bride.
And for her, the bigger it is, the better, because a 1 carat 4 C diamond on her ring finger is a status symbol that she is marrying a suitor that will be able to provide for her, at least on the surface, and allows her some "bragging rights" to her family and friends that she is making the right choice.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring



> In 1938, the diamond cartel De Beers began a marketing campaign that would have a major impact on engagement rings. During the Great Depression of the 1930s, the price of diamonds collapsed. At the same time, market research indicated that engagement rings were going out of style with the younger generation. While the first phase of the marketing campaign consisted of market research, the advertising phase began in 1939. One of the first elements of this campaign was to educate the public about the 4 Cs (cut, carats, color, and clarity). In 1947 the slogan, "A Diamond is Forever," was introduced. Ultimately, t*he De Beers campaign sought to persuade the consumer that an engagement ring is indispensable, and that a diamond is the only acceptable stone for an engagement ring*. The campaign was very successful. In 1939 only 10% of engagement rings had diamonds. By 1990, 80% did.[





> The idea that a man should spend a significant fraction of his annual income for an engagement ring originated de novo from *De Beers marketing materials in the mid-20th century, in an effort to increase the sale of diamonds.* In the 1930s, they suggested that a man should spend the equivalent of one month's income in the engagement ring;* later they suggested that he should spend two months' income on it.[32] In 2012, the average cost of an engagement ring in USA as reported by the industry was US$4,000.*[3


So now we all know what it is all about...a very successful marketing campaign by de Beers. :biggrin:


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

I'd go with the 1.25 carat. 

My ring size is 5.5 and my entire wedding ring set is .35 carat. Small, yes, but we got married young, so it's reflective of the financial times we were in. I have small hands, so the ring doesn't look too small. Admittedly, vanity creeps in there, and I sometimes wish I had something a little bit bigger, but I am very happy with my set - I picked it out myself!  I would never trade it in for anything bigger (maybe add an anniversary band to it if I really want more flash down the road).

Don't forget the actual wedding ring has to sit on there too, so unless it's a plain band, she's getting even more 'bling' out of that. 

Good luck and congrats!


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

carverman;
Diamonds are symbol of wealth said:


> Symbol of wealth could come back to bite ya. When walking down the street whos purse is a thief going to try to steal the rich looking lady or the poor one. Might be harder to haggle for better prices if it looks like your rolling in doe. When going to restaurants the server will expect bigger tips. The repair man will charge higher prices.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

lonewolf said:


> Symbol of wealth could come back to bite ya. When walking down the street whos purse is a thief going to try to steal the rich looking lady or the poor one. Might be harder to haggle for better prices if it looks like your rolling in doe. When going to restaurants the server will expect bigger tips. The repair man will charge higher prices.


Which is why I prefer to appear like the guy who's liable to hit you up for a buck, rather than the one trying to remember where he parked his Ferrari. :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

lonewolf said:


> Symbol of wealth could come back to bite ya. When walking down the street whos purse is a thief going to try to steal the rich looking lady or the poor one. Might be harder to haggle for better prices if it looks like your rolling in doe. When going to restaurants the server will expect bigger tips. The repair man will charge higher prices.


Hmmm..you don't say? Never thought of that! And lets not forget that the insurance companies will get a nice 
hefty yearly premium for insuring that 1 carat ring for theft or loss, that will be appraised (no doubt), at double or triple its value due to.....depreciation....guffaw!!..so much for diamond jewelry holding it's value.

*Thief:* 'Ma'am; hand over that rock on your finger, your iphone6 and your purse ..if you value your life!

*Shopkeeper*: noticing that flashy rock on her finger..."what? you want a discount on your Gucci shoes and purse..and ...You are wearing a $4000 diamond ring on your finger?

*Mechanic;* Look lady, your BMW needs a new <whatamacallit> and it will cost you....<spies her expensive diamond ring>...ah...<tacks on another couple of hundred on in his mind, because he thinks she can afford the repair>...<*this much!*> to get your baby out of my shop.

*Husband*; What did you buy shopping today? Gucci purses and shoes!!!! ..and a KFC dinner for two?:fat:


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Way over the top for a diamond. I can only imagine the wedding cost. I spent about 3% of my yearly earnings 25 years ago.

Much more important to us was the low debt on our home being constructed at the same time, and living below our means. And my wife still loves her ring.

Good luck with the decision.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Beav, I *never thought of it that way from different perspective *on "love and marriage"
> Yes, of course, if the fiancée is from a wealthy family that can bring $$$$$ into their married relationship, and
> they can live without the constant fear of overspending then running into money problems,
> then maybe it IS an "investment" on future prosperity.
> ...


 ... that's okay since you are a traditionalist. But you gotta






in this century, right? (and I don't think a guy who's trying to get hitched needs a dear abby reminder.) :biggrin:

I agree with the successful marketing campaign of de Beers - afterall "a diamond is a gal's best friend". 
Besides, stockholders (and I think there is at least one here in this thread - excluding me) of diamond-mining-related companies should be happy and not make a big fuss about bigger or more diamond purchases by rich consumers. :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Hmmm..you don't say? Never thought of that! And lets not forget that the insurance companies will get a nice
> hefty yearly premium for insuring that 1 carat ring for theft or loss, that will be appraised (no doubt), at double or triple its value due to.....depreciation....guffaw!!..so much for diamond jewelry holding it's value.
> 
> *Thief:* 'Ma'am; hand over that rock on your finger, your iphone6 and your purse ..if you value your life! *- no, it depends on where you're located - that purse might hold a .375 magnum if you live in the USA. Go ahead and make her day. *
> ...


:biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> :biggrin:


LOL! yes, there is always the other side of the coin for every situation. But do modern brides always have to go over the top
in getting their suitors to present them with the biggest most expensive diamond to show their love? No ladies, there is a solution to the age old question..er... (talking about engagement rings here, btw) .."does size really matter" 

Now here is a solution...great conversation piece at any bridal shower..:biggrin:


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Their trade-in offer sounds like a waste of your time.

Could you not just get the existing ring you already have resized for her finger? It sure cost you an awful lot of money, not sure why it has to be scrapped or traded in.

Lots of social pressure with this.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Erome said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 There are girls out there who would say "oh god I wish he would have gotten something cheaper, the money could have been spent a better way.

This is coming from a guy who sees a lady with her finger nails painted perfectly & thinks danger to all men of a possible high maintenance money spending lady.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> LOL! yes, there is always the other side of the coin for every situation. * But do modern brides always have to go over the top* ...
> in getting their suitors to present them with the biggest most expensive diamond to show their love? ...
> 
> View attachment 1857


 ... not always -depends. But for sure if she's spoiled like a "princess" (not the royal kind though). 

LOL! that conversational piece - looks like it came out of a jaw-breaker-bubble-gum dispensing machine, must have costed a BIG TWOONIE! :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

lonewolf said:


> There are girls out there who would say "*oh god I wish he would have gotten something cheaper, the money could have been spent a better way.*
> 
> This is coming from a guy who sees a lady with her finger nails painted perfectly & thinks danger to all men of a possible high maintenance money spending lady.


 ...of course, start with the gals (many) on this forum. 

Or it could be the other way around - men could be of high maintenance menace too ... see this https://ca.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/nick-cannon-wears--2m-diamond-shoes-on--america-s-got-talent-174635156.html ... if this is not extreme narcissm, then I don't know what this is. :biggrin:


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey everyone,

Thanks for contributing to a great discussion! Seems like lots of great ideas and opinions, and as different as can be it seems!

So as a heads up I upgraded the ring through Blue Nile and was credited the original 7k back. I then selected a 1.30 carat, Signaure Ideal Cut, H Color, FLAWLESS clarity diamond. This diamond, combined with the setting she wanted, came in to just over 15k. So I spent 8k out of pocket.

I know alot of people here are advising for:

- Cheaper is better
- Diamonds are depreciating
- A girl who wants a big diamond isn't a quality girl
- You don't need diamonds, they are just conventional BS
- Diamond business is crooked and rigged
- "My wife has a small ring and we're very happy"

These are all great opinions, and great experience based stories. Thank you for sharing them with me.

For me, it all comes down to the fact that money has to spent in life. I've lived very frugal most of my life, I don't eat out a lot, I don't vacation alot, I don't even own a nice car. I make good/great money for someone of my age, and I have built up some value in my RRSPs and in my home.

My girl is very similar. She doesn't spend alot, and she doesn't vacation alot. She isn't a consumer monger like many, and she owns her own home as well. She also has good equity built up for our age group. She also drives an old car and doesn't really care.

For me, I love her and I want to show her that. She has never ASKED for a big diamond. I want to give her one. So in my mind, the joy and pride I'll get from spending 8k on her, on this item, that she will wear for the rest of her life (romance here, not cynicism), compared to spending 8k on some more E-Series funds is no comparison. We're buying a bit of happiness for now. And if it doesn't work out, it will be an 8k life lesson. I'm sure there are life lessons out there that cost alot more.

Thanks again everyone for sharing!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ :encouragement: As long as she and you are happy with the decision, that is all it matters. All the best.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Erome said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Thanks for contributing to a great discussion! Seems like lots of great ideas and opinions, and as different as can be it seems!
> 
> ...


Congratulations, it sounds like you got a winner in a ring and more importantly a winner In a partner for life.

You shouldn't need to justify what you choose to spend your money on. If you can afford, are covering off the other requirements in life, then spending on a ring or whatever it is, is your choice. 

Congrats again and good luck.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> You shouldn't need to justify what you choose to spend your money on. If you can afford, are covering off the other requirements in life, then spending on a ring or whatever it is, is your choice.


You're absolutely right. Sorry OP for being judgmental. 

I'm sure someday I'm going to spend 15k on something "silly" and want to talk about whether I should get this or that 15k widget. And I wouldn't appreciate it if half the responses were telling me to not be ridiculous or buy an ETF instead. :biggrin:

Sorry OP. 

Do you have a picture of this sweet *** diamond to share with CMF?


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ...of course, start with the gals (many) on this forum.
> 
> Or it could be the other way around - men could be of high maintenance menace too ... see this https://ca.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/nick-cannon-wears--2m-diamond-shoes-on--america-s-got-talent-174635156.html ... if this is not extreme narcissm, then I don't know what this is. :biggrin:


 Hi, Beaver your right thanks for straighten me out.


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

Congrats for your purchase.


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

Let's not judge the op, everyone has valid reasons for how they spend their money, he just asked about which ring he should go with. People raise some good points though, there might be something between your old diamond and the proposed 16k

I would never dream of giving an old ring for a failed relationship to a new fiance, it's probably a cultural thing as the op is Chinese and I am as well, it's not... Auspicious. 

A ring is deeply personal, the value is not monetary,its an expense not investment. , I spent good money on the ring for my wife, it's exactly the one she wanted, and just because she wanted it, and I wanted to give it to her, did not make her a 'bad girl'. In fact, she's a wonderful wife and mother. Don't get me wrong, some girls are bad but this is not the only test. 

A ring can be too big. My buddy spent even more, got a huge ring that his wife doesn't wear for fear of safety. Plus, it catches on things. Get the one sparkles more

Obviously you can't be too reckless and must be able to kind of afford it. May need to forego discretionary purchasing. Don't sacrifice food and shelter, if you know what I mean


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## alingva (Aug 17, 2013)

Here is an infographic how to choose diamonds.


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