# Road to Investment Banker



## rab12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hello all, 

Wondering if any of you would be willing to share some advice on routes to getting into Investment Banking. I'm a recent university grad, graduating with a BBA. I currently work for one of the big 5 banks as a personal banker right now. I have an opportunity to work in an investment advising firm as an assistant where I will be trained and have the opportunity in the future to become an IA. I will get training and designations such as CIM, CFP, possibly CFA. 

What I'm wondering if down the road after earning the designations and working as an investment advisor, would this be a viable path into the investment banking field? Has anyone heard of someone coming through this path? Would I get any of the experience/designations needed to move into a role within investment banking? My other question is would continuing with the bank I work for be a better option considering they have an investment banking divisions and since I'm already an employee it may be easier to move around within the organization? And finally would pursuing an accounting designation be something I should think about instead of the other designations?

Any advice would help, thanks.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

An IA is not a path to being an investment banker. You need to work in an investment bank, or in a firm that has an investment banking department -- and try to get transferred into there. The large accounting firms with M&A practices would work. A mutual funds sales career would not. A CA/MBA would be a straighter path to investment banking then any of the designations you noted.


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## rab12 (Apr 21, 2011)

What if I earn my CFA through them?


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Why don't you try to seek out an Investment Banker and ask what his/her opinion is for your future carrer path. I am sure that their experience would help in your decisions.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

rab12 said:


> What if I earn my CFA through them?


wouldn't be a bad idea, and I agree you need change your career objectives and move to the investment banking side of the business, which I would guess would be as an analyst to start . . . good people and great analytical skills required! Do anything that exposes you to the debt and equity side of deals, read a lot on the subject, and help out at non-profits where a "big wheel" sits on the board. 

And like being a first year associate in a law firm, expect to work your @$$ off ! They don't let you move up the latter with paying your dues . . . http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibskill.htm


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## rab12 (Apr 21, 2011)

Is it completely unrealistic to move into the investment banking field from the advisory side? Has anyone had this experience or been in contact with someone that has?


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

rab12 said:


> What if I earn my CFA through them?


The CFA(I am one) is geared towards investment management, such as Mutual fund co, or pension fund. Investment bankers have a wider skill set , usually a prestigious MBA.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

> The CFA(I am one) is geared towards investment management, such as Mutual fund co, or pension fund. *Investment bankers have a wider skill set *, usually a prestigious MBA.


Debatable 

To get into I banking, you have to either be the absolute best at a mid-tier school, or among the absolute best at a top-tier school. 
Most I banks will only recruit at Ivey, U of T, Queen's, UBC and Schulich.
Anywhere else and you have to fight for the crumbs.

If you don't get in right after undergrad, you have another shot after you do an MBA.

If you don't show a high level of involvement in extra curricular activities, investment clubs, summer internships, excellent grades etc., you won't get in.
If you can't nail a thorough interview process which includes accounting, finance theory, personality tests, writing up an actual pitch in a short period of time to name a few, you won't get in.

Your resume is one of thousands. They'll interview maybe 5-10 of these 1000+ applicants. 

If your resume doesn't stand out, you won't even make it in the door.

Once you're in the door, you'll work a bare minimum of 60 hours, but the norm is closer to 80-100. 
You'll work like a dog for 3-5 years but after that, you'll start raking in the big $$$$$$$$

Not unreasonable to expect $250K+ 5 years in and $500K+ 7 or so years in. If you can hack it.


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## jdam (Apr 4, 2012)

*any idea how to become a fund manager*

I really like investing, especially passive investing. Francis Chou and James Wong http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/03/12/oceanstone-fund-james-wang/ are inspirational.

I read almost all the must-read investment books (security analysis, intelligent investor, Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits etc) 

Unfortunately, I am an engineer. But fortunately, I am young, I am convinced that I will be rich if keep doing what I do and compound my capital. I'm fine with managing my money, I want to manage other people’s money and make some more income.

I am wondering, what is the right path to become a fund manager like francis chou or jame wang? Can someone help? 

What is the difference between ibanking and fund managing? 

Is it like this? (get CFA, become a security analyst, and start my own fund?)


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## rab12 (Apr 21, 2011)

*what would be more versatile is the world of finance?*

Thanks everyone. 

If I can ask another question, what would be more versatile is the world of finance, again going in on the advisory side and earning CIM, CFP possibly a CFA down the road, or doing a account designation, CGA, CMA? My current situation doesn't lend itself well to doing my CA, so I'd be limited right now to the other 2 account designations. Thoughts?

PS - Am I the only one that thinks there should be some kind of career advice forum on this site, I know that's my main priority right now but I gotta think I'm not the only one trying to figure out potential career paths.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

> I am wondering, what is the right path to become a fund manager like francis chou or jame wang? Can someone help?
> 
> What is the difference between ibanking and fund managing?
> 
> Is it like this? (get CFA, become a security analyst, and start my own fund?)


There are two paths:

1) Work your way up at a fund management company
2) Make a name for yourself, build up a client base and start your own fund

The problem with path 1) is that once you fight through all the competition, you're still working for a fund management company, and while you're making great money, you're not making the 2/20 or 4/40 that earns the hedge fund guys their billion dollar payouts

The problem with path 2) is that *EVERY SINGLE* person out there wants to do this. A huge number of very successful security analysts (making $750,000+ a year) think they'll succeed at running their own fund, then 5 years down the road have only $3 million in AUM (half of which is their own cash) and are making a tiny fraction of what they were earning before.

The third option, which isn't quite fund management, but is still managing other people's money is to look into the retail broker game. Still a business model where you need a significant amount of AUM to be successful.

If it were that easy, we'd all be doing it .

The problem is that you only hear about the success stories. For every Soros and Sprott, there are thousands of Richards, Smiths, and Murphys who went nowhere.

If you're an engineer and want to get into finance, I'd recommend an MBA and a CFA, then get a job on either the buy side or sell side. Once you're in, you work your way up and if the entrepreneurial bug bites, you can choose to leave whenever you want. 

I banking is selling deals
Fund management is buying the I bankers deals 

I bankers will underwrite debt and equity issues (usually will buy a portion of a deal with their company's balance sheet), then will sell the deal to institutional clients (fund managers) and retail clients (you and I).

Fund managers essentially just manage money.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Speaking as a CFP who works in finance, I'd say forget the CPF and the CIM. They really will not help you if you want to get into investment banking and arguably they'd slow you down.


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