# Making a will



## couchman (Oct 10, 2013)

Looking to have a basic will made up. I currently live in Ottawa. Anyone have an idea of someone offering this and at a great price. I know any lawer will do this but was looking for a graet deal. The will would be very basic.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Walmart has a law office now that does wills for$99, if I recall correctly.


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## couchman (Oct 10, 2013)

Yes I heard that but I think it is only in the Toronto area for now.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Via Rail has special deals on trains from Ottawa to Toronto if you book in advance, travel on a Tuesday, and are willing to ride on the roof. ;-)


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I would buy a Canadian Will Kit (check ratings) and when completed get it notarized. A good lawyer just asks enough questions, easily done by a good computer program.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

Any recommendations on a good Canadian will kit?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

FrugalTrader said:


> Any recommendations on a good Canadian will kit?


You can even try a free one. I used to have will kit for many years, and it cost something like $9.95, but a few years ago, I decided to upgrade the will, (because of divorce and indefinite support payments), went to an Ottawa lawyer...by the time it was done with HST, it was nearly $500. 

Good money maker for the lawyers. I now have the original as well, since the Ottawa lawyer that drew up
the will and signed it, left the firm, and the new lawyer that took over wanted to store it in their vaults, which meant that they were looking for the "will executing business" in the future. 

http://www.lawdepot.ca/contracts/canada-last-will-and-testament

To make it legal, all you need to have is two independent witnesses to witness your signature/date of the
will.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I've seen some lawyers who have used the forms out of some of those will kits, and then charge you for typing in the information...now granted, those lawyers didn't specialize in wills, but still...

Also, I found that different lawyers charge different amounts, even within the same firm (when I once called around, I called many firms, then noticed that I'd called a firm with a lawyer who was already doing some work for me, when I asked her what she'd charge, thinking I might get a deal since she was already doing work for me, her quote was $500 more than her firm had quoted me). 

The real trick I found with a lawyer's aided will is to keep the terminology vague enough to apply long term. Most people try to be too specific in a will. If written right, the will doesn't need to be changed very often (even if some beneficiaries were to die for example). 

If you can get your hands on a few examples, you can easily do it yourself. Remember to avoid being specific about things unless you want to bequeath a specific item, don't say things like "my stock portfolio should be devided as..." Leave it as "my estate should be devided as." As much as possible.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> I've seen some lawyers who have used the forms out of some of those will kits, and then charge you for typing in the information...now granted, those lawyers didn't specialize in wills, but still...
> 
> Also, I found that different lawyers charge different amounts, even within the same firm (when I once called around, I called many firms, then noticed that I'd called a firm with a lawyer who was already doing some work for me, when I asked her what she'd charge, thinking I might get a deal since she was already doing work for me, her quote was $500 more than her firm had quoted me).


Most of them charge their hourly rate, so it depends on how many pages there are in the will and whether you have a POA for LTC and financial matters. 
So if the lawyers spend 1-2hrs working on it, that is what they will charge hourly rate (+ HST)
on a specifically written custom will. 



> The real trick I found with a lawyer's aided will is to keep the terminology vague enough to apply long term. Most people try to be too specific in a will. If written right, the will doesn't need to be changed very often (even if some beneficiaries were to die for example).


You can update your will without a lawyer..all you need is a codicil to your last will and the specific paragraphs that are being rewritten mentioned in the will, then just like the will itself, two independent witnesses to witness your signature and the date.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Davis said:


> Walmart has a law office now that does wills for$99, if I recall correctly.


it really depends on whether your will is simple or complicated...

here's what an estate lawyer has to say about these.. (Axxess)
http://estatelawcanada.blogspot.ca/2014/05/99-wills-are-they-good-idea.html


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

If you're considering getting a will done at Wal-Mart, I'd suggest, go to their barbershop, get a haircut. Then go to their photo studio, get some photo's done.

Now look at the quality of said photo's and the quality of said haircut, and tell me if you really want to place your families future in those same hands.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

CalgaryPotato said:


> If you're considering getting a will done at Wal-Mart, I'd suggest, go to their barbershop, get a haircut. Then go to their photo studio, get some photo's done.
> 
> Now look at the quality of said photo's and the quality of said haircut, and tell me if you really want to place your families future in those same hands.


But their wills are legal..at least in Ontario, and certainly better than having no will and something happens to you accidentally , especially with small children as dependants. 
Who would be appointed as their legal guardians, if you are not around any more to look after them?
Only the courts..you cannot specify that if you are deceased. 

For what I read online, these are two Ontario lawyers that have started this in a couple of Walmart stores in the GTA.

Not having any will could be a lot more complicated if something should happen, than just putting $99)+HST) on your plastic and having something...at least for now. 
You can always write a new will with the help of a legal firm if need be.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

we paid $500 total for our two wills and a seperate fee for documents recarding our business ,think it is the business will ,had a successor plan etc.My brother's will cost $350 in 2012 so think you can do better than $500 a person for sure.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

carverman said:


> Not having any will could be a lot more complicated if something should happen



Agreed. Perfection is the enemy of good here -- just make a will and do it it now. You can tinker with it later.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

CalgaryPotato said:


> If you're considering getting a will done at Wal-Mart, I'd suggest, go to their barbershop, get a haircut. Then go to their photo studio, get some photo's done.
> 
> Now look at the quality of said photo's and the quality of said haircut, and tell me if you really want to place your families future in those same hands.


And the many people who buy a children's car-seat at Walmart are risking their families' futures as well? Arguing from sloppy analogy can be problematic... 

Personally, for people with families or other complications, going to a lawyer you are comfortable with and spending some money is cheap peace-of-mind insurance. But start from the other end of the scale. Take someone single, never married, no common-law, not living with someone, no children. The estate goes to one beneficiary, who is also named executor (perhaps with an alternate beneficiary/executor if the first predeceases). The intent is to create a baseline "simple" case, so no joint property, ownership of a business, or other exotic pieces to the estate, just simple real estate, cash, stocks/bonds, etc. 

First, even with the magic of the internet, try and estimate what a will for this situation might cost in your jurisdiction, even as an hourly rate for a family practice lawyer. If things like the Walmart-type storefronts do nothing else, providing a bit of transparency in what is more the fee-for-service end of the business would be welcome.

Second, I had always assumed that for that "simple case", dying intestate made things a lot more troublesome than if a basic will were in place, naming the same beneficiaries intestate law would. But this came up here awhile ago and I took a quick wander online through what I could find for Ontario's regulations (that was where the question came from), and it looks like a lot of the filings and fees are the same. It would be interesting to see the process and cost set out for one of these cases in both situations. A basic will is obviously still preferable, of course.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

NorthernRaven said:


> First, even with the magic of the internet, try and estimate what a will for this situation might cost in your jurisdiction, even as an hourly rate for a family practice lawyer. If things like the Walmart-type storefronts do nothing else, providing a bit of transparency in what is more the fee-for-service end of the business would be welcome.


Different lawyers will have different fees for doing wills..it all depends on how complicated the will is and how much time is spent on your will; 
1) Asking and writing down specific information that you want on your will;
and
2) calling you back in once the will is typed up (before signing and witnessed) to review it page by page
and make sure it is done exactly as you wanted it..(at least at the time it was written up..and that
can change over time, depending on your personal circumstances)



> Second, I had always assumed that for that "simple case", dying intestate made things a lot more troublesome than if a basic will were in place, naming the same beneficiaries intestate law would.
> 
> But this came up here awhile ago and I took a quick wander online through what I could find for Ontario's regulations (that was where the question came from), and it looks like a lot of the filings and fees are the same.
> 
> It would be interesting to see the process and cost set out for one of these cases in both situations. A basic will is obviously still preferable, of course.





> when the estate includes a land transfer. Although there are some exceptions to this rule, land registry offices will generally require probate in order to transfer land out of the name of the deceased and into the name of someone else.


it's hard to make a comparison because the case without a will will require the probate court to make all the decisions and even name a trustee of the estate...in the case of the last known will..some of the estate can pass to the beneficiary without going through probate, as the those assets can be considered "outside the probate estate of the deceased", and not subject to probate fees.

Obviously, the executor (as named in a valid will), or the probate court (if the deceased is intestate),
will have to collect all the assets and liabilities of the deceased, and perform a final valuation for any beneficiaries and creditors, which will be paid first..like the taxman.



> In Ontario, a deceased’s estate has to pay probate fees on the gross value of the deceased’s property. The fees are equal to $5 per $1,000 for the first $50,000 plus $15 per additional $1,000.


http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/22/to-probate-or-not-to-probate/


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

carverman said:


> it's hard to make a comparison because the case without a will will require the probate court to make all the decisions and even name a trustee of the estate...in the case of the last known will..some of the estate can pass to the beneficiary without going through probate, as the those assets can be considered "outside the probate estate of the deceased", and not subject to probate fees.


That whole "probate court makes all the decisions" is actually the opposite to what I thinking of - see this post from a different thread. People can apply to be named (in Ontario) the Estate Trustee, and after that things seem to proceed much as if they had been named executor in a will. For the "simple case" I laid out, the chain of eligibility would be parents, then siblings, and so on through the defined categories of beneficiaries named in the regs. As I said, I'd be curious to see all the various steps and fees laid out for this process in the hypothetical "simple case", compared to the same estate with a will.

Things that pass "outside of the estate" would be certain jointly owned property, or things like life insurance with a specific named beneficiary (not "estate"). I don't think there are types of estate assets that would move "outside" the estate simply because of a will, rather than dying intestate. The estate should be the same in both cases (unless, of course, the will provided for tax-avoiding trusts or whatnot, rather than simple conveyance).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

NorthernRaven said:


> Things that pass "outside of the estate" would be *certain jointly owned property, or things like life insurance with a specific named beneficiary (not "estate")*. I don't think there are types of estate assets that would move "outside" the estate simply because of a will, rather than dying intestate.


That makes sense.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

This is one area that I would not skimp on, get a lawyer and do a will & power attorneys as well. Money well spent.


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## faline (Feb 10, 2011)

Couchman, who did you end up going with? I'm in Ottawa as well and need to finally get this done...


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

newfoundlander61 said:


> This is one area that I would not skimp on, get a lawyer and do a will & power attorneys as well. Money well spent.


Agreed ... and fwiw, I was executor to a will that would have been contested but for having been done up by a reputable lawyer ... no contest. Money very well spent, and especially if there's a chance of a will being contested. Not saying won't prevent it but well worth having in hand ... OT: it's absolutely unbelievable what some feel they're entitled to upon another's death ...


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

couchman said:


> Looking to have a basic will made up. I currently live in Ottawa. Anyone have an idea of someone offering this and at a great price...


About $250-$300 would be fair for relatively simple joint wills and POA's for spouses. But some lawyers will charge $500+. I should think a single-person will would be less. Ask around. The law Society has also loosened the rules on advertising by lawyers, so you may find ads on the web quoting prices.


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## MrPCMan (May 3, 2012)

If you work for a company that has an EAP (Employee Assistance Program) program they sometimes will give discounts on wills at specific legal firms they deal with, never hurts to ask... Just my 2 cents.


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