# McD's offering "mousse" with their McCafe?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

CBC news clip of a Fredricton McD's coffee patron taking a lid off a cup of McCafe to take his first gulp then
putting the lid back on? and sipping it all day..until he gets to the last bit at the bottom of the cup... and to his shock he sees a dead mouse. 

"oh my God!..there is a mouse in my coffee cup!"
"said that wasn’t all that was in the cup. He said the mouse left “a few little, shall we say, presents” at the bottom of it."


Mystery is still unanswered: "I would like to know how the mouse got into my coffee cup?"



> He was contendedly sipping his coffee... ALL Day?...that he got Monday from the Prospect Street location until he got to the bottom of the paper takeout cup.....


McDs corporate statement:


> We are continuing to investigate this isolated incident and have reached out to the customer to obtain the product sample. *Until such time as we are able to collect all the necessary facts and laboratory results to conclude a full review, it would be inappropriate for us to comment further*. Similarly, we would also caution against jumping to conclusions until more details are available.


Sounds like a carefully prepared statement to avoid a possible lawsuit. 

Mystery is still unanswered: "I would like to know how the mouse got into my coffee cup?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...ned-dead-mouse-fredericton-man-says-1.2798389

*Some possibilities:*
Maybe there was a mouse at the McD's location at one point, and it decided to crawl in a empty coffee cup waiting for some crumbs of cheese on their McCheese? It climbed into the coffee cup, ate the crumbs, then had to relieve itself in the bottom of the cup.

The unsuspecting employee grabbed the cup automatically, the mouse was sleeping and couldn't get out in time.. and stuck it under the coffee urn to fill it and then pass it to the guy in the drive through.

OR

The poor mouse after eating at McD's died from food poisoning.:biggrin-new:


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Considering the cups are placed in stacks, usually upside down, on a pull out holder, this story will probably turn into either a bad employee story, someone trying to get money out of McDonald's by rigging it, or a hoax...

I'm sure, with all the cameras they have now, that they'll figure it out.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm going to bet it is a customer trying to fabricate a story to extract some cash. There is no way you would not notice a mouse sloshing around in the cup.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I just had a mcd coffee yesterday. I agree with just a guy, it's either a hoax or an employee put it in after. I think more of a hoax.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Thank god I had my morning coffee prior to reading this! 

I agree with PA it's either a 15 minutes-fame searching hoax (the hoaxer doesn't want anything, other than an explanation from MCD) or a prank by an employee. ... 

Hmmm, OTOH thinking outside of the box ... maybe it's one of those alien visitor disguised as a mouse, searching for some heavy-duty java ... poor creature should have gone for TH's dark-roast instead...:biggrin:


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Sounds like the women that got a std or something rather from Mcd not long ago because of the extra mayo she got on her cheese burger lol(that story was circulating also not to long ago)100% hoax


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Thank god I had my morning coffee prior to reading this!
> 
> I agree with PA it's either a 15 minutes-fame searching hoax (the hoaxer doesn't want anything, other than an explanation from MCD) or a prank by an employee. ...


You mean a pre-Halloween prank? Well he did get his 15 minutes of fame on CBC. Although it's too early to tell from the story..
field mice do carry a virus called Hantavirus..which can be infectious. Especially if he drank the coffee with the mouse..er..droppings.




> Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome is an infectious disease characterized by flu-like symptoms that can progress rapidly to potentially life-threatening breathing problems.
> 
> Several types of hantaviruses can cause hantavirus pulmonary syndrome. They are carried by several types of rodents, particularly the deer mouse. You become infected primarily by breathing air infected with hantaviruses that are shed in rodent urine and droppings.
> Because treatment options are limited, the best protection against hantavirus pulmonary syndrome is to avoid rodents and their habitats.


Obviously McD's wants to see the cup and it's contents for more testing..but what can they find out from a 
dead mouse...maybe they should ask their employees who served the cup and why they didn't notice the
mouse in it before filling it?
avoid rodents and their habitats? That might mean avoiding Mccafe althogether. :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

donald said:


> Sounds like the women that got a std or something rather from Mcd not long ago because of the extra mayo she got on her cheese burger lol(that story was circulating also not to long ago)100% hoax


Not a hoax Donald..this one turned out to be true..she got the herpes virus from something in her hamburger that was NOT supposed to be there...disgusting story and pictures..I'll spare our CMF readers the pics..



> Michigan woman was in disgust last week when she ate at a local McDonald’s. <name withheld>l, 31, was having lunch with her friends when she decided to order a McChicken sandwich. *She was halfway through with her sandwich when she noticed an extra clump of mayonnaise on the side of the bun. She licked it off, tasted it and immediately realized things were not right.*





> “I’m not gonna lie,” McDowell said. “On Birthdays and holidays I give my man a little something extra in the bedroom, you know? So when I licked the mayo off of the bun, the texture was familiar.”* McDowell immediately called over the manager who denied the allegations, so she contacted the local health department.





> They sent the “mayo” remains off for testing and the results were positive for 2 different types of semen. To make matters worse, in the following days, *McDowell woke with a giant red rash on the corner of her mouth. The rash spread and *developed into severe blisters. The doctor was able to verify that she had *contracted the herpes virus, which she claims was a result of her tainted McChicken.*





> The manager confirmed that* two employees were fired as a result of her allegations and the positive semen test results*.





> The manager of the McDonald’s also added, “*We can’t always keep an eye on our employee’s conduct. We can only hope, during the interview process, that we are able to hire employees that meet our companies standards*.”


Hmmm? some truth in that..maybe McD's should try and pay higher wages?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> *1.*'..we would also caution *against jumping to conclusions until more details are available.'*
> *2.* McDs corporate statement: Sounds like a carefully prepared statement to *avoid a possible lawsuit.*


*1.* Sure, but outside of a court-room, it's hard not to jump to conclusions when there is no shortage of people with cooked-up phony stories.

This case sounds similar to the finger-in burger case in Nevada. The finger had belonged to a construction worker [not the burger place], who had lost it in an accident and sold it to a couple of con artists. :stupid: Now the question is to whom this mouse belonged to, lol.

*2.* I think they are used to frivolous litigation by now, as it's the kind of world we live in. I'm not saying that true victims should not be compensated, but some of the amounts asked for comes from I don't know what planet [worst was probably the judge who sued for $54 million for a pair of lost pants]. 

Remember or heard about the *Liebek v. MCD* case? While there is no denying Ms. Liebeck suffered, I'm not sure she was just 20% at fault.

"Before filing suit, Liebeck requested that McDonald’s pay $90,000 for Liebeck’s medical expenses and pain and suffering. McDonald’s countered with a generous offer of 
$800. Ms. Liebeck had never filed a lawsuit before in her life, and she said she never would have filed this lawsuit if McDonald’s “hadn’t dismissed her request for compensation 
for pain and medical bills with an offer of $800.” 

http://www.jtexconsumerlaw.com/V11N1/Coffee.pdf

Fraudsters these days count on a rich out-of-court settlement.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

carverman said:


> You mean a pre-Halloween prank? Well he did get his 15 minutes of fame on CBC. Although it's too early to tell from the story..
> field mice do carry a virus called Hantavirus..which can be infectious. Especially if he drank the coffee with the mouse..er..droppings.
> 
> 
> ...


Before we start a whole scare about the hantevirus, mice MAY carry it though it is rare. At least where I live there have been very few cases of hantevirus over the decades. 

Just because I read this today, I decided to go to mcd for a coffe this morning. Assuming the protocols and procedures are are similar, here is what I observed today:

The cups are either upside down, or in the dispenser sideways. The only way would be that the mouse was there in the last cup in a dispenser. Upside down, the mouse would not be able to stay and would be underneath due to gravity. The only plausible scenario, though still remot is that it was the last cup, and even then I believe there is something that pushed the cup, so I am not sure hat would work (I couldn't look that closely).

The other area that the mouse could have fallen in is IF mcd used the coffee carafe, and not the spout dispenser. I have seen both. The dispenser, mouse would not fit through. The carafe, It would be possible if the mouse jumped on a died due to heat immediately. However, even dead mice float for a while. That would imply that the mouse jumped splashed for a few minutes then died and drown and then got coffee logged, and got poured in. Unless this is a low volume Mcd's the coffe or would have had to be un disturbed for a while. Also, if you have ever see a mouse drowning, they are really loud. 

Next part of the story is fishy, is that the person had the mouse droppings. If the person had the cup all day, the droppings would have mostly dissolved. 

That is my detective work for this one. No idea why I felt the need to analyse it. 

My conclusion once again, someone looking for a lawsuit. Maybe a bad prankster.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> You mean a pre-Halloween prank? Well he did get his 15 minutes of fame on CBC. Although it's too early to tell from the story..
> field mice do carry a virus called Hantavirus..which can be infectious. Especially if he drank the coffee with the mouse..er..droppings.
> 
> Obviously McD's wants to see the cup and it's contents for more testing..but what can they find out from a
> ...


 ... maybe an early Halloween prank or a disgrunted employee ... like JustAGuy mentioned MCD will find out what happened as they do have security cams. 

If it turns out to be the case the mouse was planted by the customer, then it would be extremely stupid of him to do that in risking his life (if he does get sick) and reputation (committing a fraud) ... let's see.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Toronto.gal said:


> *1.* Sure, but outside of a court-room, it's hard not to jump to conclusions when there is no shortage of people with cooked-up phony stories. ...
> 
> *2.* I think they are used to frivolous litigation by now, as it's the kind of world we live in. I'm not saying that true victims should not be compensated, but some of the amounts asked for comes from I don't know what planet [worst was probably *the judge who sued for $54 million for a pair of lost pants*].
> 
> ..


 ... yes, that was the most assinined frivolous litigation I ever heard ... especially the plaintiff was a "Judge". What pair of pants is worth US$54 millions? :stupid: beyond belief.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Just because he claimed the coffee had a mouse in it does not mean he drank the mouse infused coffee.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> B
> 
> The other area that the mouse could have fallen in is IF mcd used the coffee carafe, and not the spout dispenser. I have seen both. The dispenser, mouse would not fit through. The carafe, It would be possible if the mouse jumped on a died due to heat immediately. However, even dead mice float for a while. That would imply that the mouse jumped splashed for a few minutes then died and drown and then got coffee logged, and got poured in. Unless this is a low volume Mcd's the coffe or would have had to be un disturbed for a while. *Also, if you have ever see a mouse drowning, they are really loud.
> *


Excellent "observation-analysis" P.A...may I call you Sherlock as in Holmes? :biggrin:

I wondered myself how a live mouse would go undetected in a cup when a McD's server picked up the cup. He or she would select the cup from the dispenser by grabbing the bottom of the cup, (a live mouse would be scrambling to escape); then either... pour the coffee into the cup from a carafe, or from a coffee urn (if that is what McD's uses.

1. If the mouse was live, someone in the store would "scream mouse!"..as the mouse would be scrambling to escape.

2. Even if the mouse was in the cup, a server in the McD's store would have detected it first, so the mouse had to be dead already..because the presence of mice droppings would indicate that the mouse was alive at some point
then died mysterious...maybe after ingesting mouse poison? 



> Next part of the story is fishy, is that the person had the mouse droppings. If the person had the cup all day, the droppings would have mostly dissolved.


Apparently the person said that he was drinking from the cup all day...where though? and did he have the lid on the cup all day. If he had the cup with the lid on it, and drinking from the cup lid after tearing part of it away, he would not be aware of a dead mouse in the cup, if it was a large cup (which it seemed to be) and the dead mouse was water logged at the
bottom of the cup.


> That is my detective work for this one. No idea why I felt the need to analyse it.


Your analysis is appreciated., but further analysis may be necessary because of a possible lawsuit..or the
guy putting it in himself? and wanting his 15 minutes of fame on national TV.
Because it seems at least on the surface at least, of another McD's case of a patron receiving the 'short end of the stick" after buying a product; (if you remember the lady that bought a cup of hot coffee and placed it between her thighs while driving then suffering 3rd degree burns and requiring "skin grafts'...it turned out to be a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
McD's had to change the message on the cups to "Warning: Coffee is hot and can cause burns" to protect themselves from further lawsuits. Ok you can't prevent stupididy with just warnings..but this was a very famous lawsuit case in the US. 



> My conclusion once again, someone looking for a lawsuit. Maybe a bad prankster.


LOL! I would think that would be more the case. If the guy worked in a construction site or a warehouse, and left his coffee cup sitting around all day, someone could have sneaked in a dead mouse as a prank.

There have been Urban Legends of people slipping a dead mouse into a opened beer bottle with beer in it and contacting the brewery about that and trying to get a free case of beer. This was also one of the jokes on Bob&Doug Mackenzie Bros movie.."STRANGE BREW'..:highly_amused:


> Two unemployed brothers, Bob and Doug McKenzie (Rick Moranis and Dave Thomas), place a live mouse in a beer bottle in an attempt to blackmail the local beer store into giving them free Elsinore beer, but are told to take up the matter at the Elsinore brewery instead. After presenting the mouse to management at the brewery, the brothers are given jobs on the bottling line inspecting the bottles for mice.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Just because he claimed the coffee had a mouse in *it does not mean he drank the mouse infused coffee*.


Yes, it makes sense..if he kept the lid on the coffee cup, tore away a section of the lid to sip the coffee (all day?..which would be a very cold cup of coffee at the end of his day)..maybe it is possible that someone dropped a dead mouse in it and replaced the lid?

Also, IF he "sipped the coffee all day" and kept putting it down, a mouse would not be prone to going around in the daytime looking for cups of coffee to jump into...mice are usually attracted to food particles at night..and not liquids.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> *1.* (if you remember the lady that bought a cup of hot coffee and placed it between her thighs *while driving* then suffering 3rd degree burns and requiring "skin grafts'...it turned out to be a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
> McD's had to change the message on the cups to "Warning: Coffee is hot and can cause burns" to protect themselves from further lawsuits. Ok you can't prevent stupididy with just warnings..but this was a very famous lawsuit case in the US.
> 
> *2.* Excellent "observation-analysis" P.A...may I call you Sherlock as in Holmes? :biggrin:


*1.* I mentioned that lawsuit & posted a link upthread [since I found its conclusion interesting], and that's not how it happened [unless you were referring to yet another case]. The plaintiff had not been the driver but a passenger in her grandson's car. She did place the cup between her knees to remove the plastic lid from it, and I suppose she was found 20% at fault for that.

Same link tells that during the discovery, it had been found that there had been 700 prior claims by people burned by MCD's coffee, so clearly the company had not been blameless. Hence the $2.7 million in punitive damages, which MCD could have easily avoided had they agreed to pay for the plaintiff's extensive medical bills, and all that had been requested at first.

'The jury deliberated after hearing seven days of evidence, testimony, and arguments of counsel, finding that 
*McDonald’s was liable on the claims of:*

- product defect, 
- breach of the implied warranty of merchantability, 
- and breach of the implied warranty of fitness for particular purpose. 

The jury further determined that Ms. Liebeck’s injuries merited an award of $200,000 compensatory damages. 
However, because the jury found that Ms. Liebeck was 20% at fault, that award was reduced proportionately to $160,000. 

Finally, the *jury awarded Ms. Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages based on its finding of:*

- wilful,
- reckless,
- malicious, or wanton conduct. 

The amount of $2.7 million was arrived at based on evidence the jury heard that McDonald’s daily coffee revenues amounted to 
approximately $1.34 million. These exemplary damages represented about two days worth of McDonald’s coffee revenues. However, *a 
fact that rarely ever makes headlines (in this case, or in any allegedly “fraudulent” lawsuit) is that the punitive damages 
were reduced by the trial court to $480,000 (three times the compensatory damages) for a total award of $640,000.*

*2.* More like Poppy Montgomery [as in more modern].


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Funny how we skew numbers...

700 prior complaints...sounds like a lot, something that needed to be addressed...

Until, you see $1.34 million (approximate daily revenue from just coffee), how many cups a day does that represent? 500,000 (per day)?

So, 700 complaints up to the lawsuit back around the turn of the century?, representing what 50-75 years of business...even if they didn't sell as many cups of coffee back then, 700 complaints, heck even 70,000 complaints isn't even a rounding error...but we should have thought to prevent it???

More people get hit by cars, yet bumpers don't have stickers that say, "standing in front of a car while it is moving may cause injury". May be it should be "if you are reading this, you're about to get hurt or killed". 

The population of most major cities in canada is usually over one million, that means that those "one in a million events" that we never think can happen should happen at least once a day...more in Toronto and Vancouver due to population.

Two more thoughts occurred to me as well...

1) I don't drink coffee, and I've never had one with a mouse in it (though I have seen a beer bottle with a mouse), I do notice when I have ice in my drink as the "lump" changes how the liquid flows and how the cup feels. I'm pretty sure I'd notice a shift if I sipped a drink all day long.

2) if you can't tell that there's a mouse, let alone mouse poop, what does that say about the taste of McDonald's coffee? Does it normally taste like poo?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

It was about corporate behaviour.

'[T]he written transcript is not going 
to reveal the attitudes of corporate indifference 
presented by demeanor or of the witnesses for the 
Defendant McDonald’s as well as their employees, 
but the jury was exposed to it and I think that they 
properly considered it in their deliberations. And 
let me say that with knowing the risk of harm, 
the evidence and testimony would indicate that 
McDonald’s consciously made no serious effort to 
warn its consumers by placing just the most simple, 
adequate warning on the lid of the cup in which the 
coffee was served. . . . *This is all evidence of culpable 
corporate mental state and I conclude that the award 
of punitive damages is and was appropriate to punish 
and deter the Defendant for their wanton conduct 
and to send a clear message to this Defendant that 
corrective measures are appropriate.'*

When it comes to GM and others, would you also say 'funny how we skew numbers?'


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Why not sue the parents for not teaching them proper safety when handling hot substances? Oh wait, considering her age, the parents were probably dead, plus they weren't worth millions.

Here's a few more warning labels we should add:
Drinking hot drinks may scald your tongue.
Coffee may induce drowning or coughing fits if improperly consumed.
You may have an allergic reaction if this is the first time you comsume coffee.
Cold coffee may not taste the same as hot or Luke warm.
Coffee has been known to come out your nose if someone tells you a joke while drinking. This may cause discomfort, embarrassment and soil clothing.
Adding sugar and cream can lead to obesity. 
Caffeine is an addictive substance. So is fat and sugar.
If you need these warning labels, perhaps it's proof that Darwin was wrong.

I think we're going to need bigger cups...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> *1.* I mentioned that lawsuit & posted a link upthread [since I found its conclusion interesting], and that's not how it happened [unless you were referring to yet another case]. The plaintiff had not been the driver but a passenger in her grandson's car. She did place the cup between her knees to remove the plastic lid from it, and I suppose she was found 20% at fault for that.


Yes, that was the case I was referring to. Although she was a passenger, (I guess the car did not have two built in cup holders in the console as most do now), she put the cup between her knees and removed the lid and that splashed hot coffee on her legs..which caused severe burns. 

Ok, I am commenting from the male perspective here :biggrin:and I still don't understand why anybody would do that in the first place..
but it happened, and the coffee was probably too hot. 
This happened in the US, so being a litigation prone society (go after the ones with the deepest pockets) she sued for pain and suffering and medical bills..
skin grafts or whatever..but there has been more than one lawsuit over McD's hot coffee..



> [* A woman in the Chicago area is suing McDonald’s over hot coffee — something they’re not unfamiliar with — claiming that her four-year old granddaughter was burned after an employee gave her a refill of the liquid that is only supposed to be served to adults.*
> According to the lawsuit, the woman had asked her granddaughter to throw away her empty coffee cup, but the child misunderstood and brought the cup to the counter for a refill. According to the Chicago Tribune, the lawsuit alleges an employee told her to come back when a new pot of coffee was done.
> The little girl was set on helping her grandma, it seems, as she then apparently returned to the counter where the employee is said to have filled it up with the freshly brewed, very hot coffee, without securing a lid and without a protective sleeve.
> According to the lawsuit, “a lot of coffee spilled out of the cup” onto the girl’s chest, causing second-degree burns and permanent scarring. The grandmother says she was also burned when she tried to help her granddaughter.
> ...


Translation: Are we supposed to be blamed every time a child or adult is scalded by our hot coffee? The warning on our cups
should be enough. Are we too blame if people don't bother reading the warning?



> 'The jury deliberated after hearing seven days of evidence, testimony, and arguments of counsel, finding that
> *McDonald’s was liable on the claims of:*
> 
> - *product defect,
> ...


Wow..didn't know that a cup of coffee carries all these specific attributes that can be breached by improper handling.




> The jury further determined that Ms. Liebeck’s injuries merited an award of $200,000 compensatory damages.
> However, because the jury found that Ms. Liebeck was 20% at fault, that award was reduced proportionately to $160,000.
> Finally, the *jury awarded Ms. Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages based on its finding of:*
> 
> ...


Yes, McD's has no business serving hot coffee to minors or seniors that can't open the lid safely. :biggrin:
However, pouring hot coffee into an empty cup from a 4 year old, is blatant disregard for the child's safety
and they deserve to be sued for that incident. 


> The amount of $2.7 million was arrived at based on evidence the jury heard that McDonald’s daily coffee revenues amounted to approximately $1.34 million. ...for a total award of $640,000.


 In Canada, they would only be obligated to another free cup of coffee..as the provincial health system would look after the
burns. :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> More people get hit by cars, *yet bumpers don't have stickers that say, "standing in front of a car while it is moving may cause injury*". May be it should be "if you are reading this, you're about to get hurt or killed".


But those injuries can be classified as "accidental" or moving violations, in which case the courts and insurance determine who is responsible.

If one jay walks against a red traffic light and gets hit ..it's a case of who is in the wrong. If the driver had a right of way because the traffic light allowed it, and the pedestrian walked out disregarding the traffic signals..the pedestrian should be 100% at fault...but with automobile insurance, if the pedestrian is injured and rendered unable to look after themselves..the drivers insurance will be forced to pay up anyway. 





> Two more thoughts occurred to me as well...
> 
> 1) I don't drink coffee, and I've never had one with a mouse in it (though I have seen a beer bottle with a mouse), I do notice when I have ice in my drink as the "lump" changes how the liquid flows and how the cup feels. I'm pretty sure I'd notice a shift if I sipped a drink all day long.


So the mouse in the beer bottle is not just an urban myth..they do somehow get trapped in the bottle. 



> 2) if you can't tell that there's a mouse, let alone mouse poop, what does that say about the taste of McDonald's coffee? Does it normally taste like poo?


I suppose it would depend on how large the cup was. From the picture, it seems to be the large size so maybe he wasn't able to tell right away with the large 16? ounce size cup.

Mice at McD's. It's not uncommon..especially when there are buns and other food that attracts mice..watch this youtube clip..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsn1w8xiY40


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> *1.* the coffee was *probably too hot.......*
> *2.* but there has been *more than one lawsuit over McD's hot coffee....*
> *3.* didn't know that a cup of coffee carries all these specific attributes that can be breached by improper handling.


*1.* Probably you say? *Without any doubt,* given the magnitude of injuries.

*'A vascular surgeon diagnosed Liebeck as having suffered:*

- full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. 
- These third degree burns extended through to Liebeck’s subcutaneous fat, muscle, or bone.
- While she was hospitalized for eight days, Liebeck underwent skin grafting, 
- and later underwent debridement treatments.
- Liebeck was permanently disfigured and disabled for two years as a result of this incident.

You would not have sued? 

Further, a thermodynamics expert at the trial had testified that:* 'liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus, if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.'*

I don't think MCD is serving coffee at 180 degrees today, are they? 

*2.* There are frivolous, and serious lawsuits; both will forever brew in our world.

*3.* It was more about #1, so the case had less to do with the 'improper handling' aspect [why the plaintiff was blamed 20%, although IMHO, it should have been higher - although, for their share of the blame, I kind of blame the grandson more].


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Just for a couple of minutes - as opposed to forgettable experiences, let's move on to 'the world's most memorable coffee drinking experience' with Black Ivory Coffee beans - has anyone heard/tasted such a unique experience? :courage:

What makes this brew so memorable? Canadian entrepreneur Blake Dinkin says: "They [elephants] eat a lot of grass and a lot of green, leafy matter. A herbivore, to break that down, utilizes fermentation to break down that cellulose. Fermentation is great for things like wine or beer or coffee, because it brings out the sugar in the bean, and it helps impart the fruit from the coffee pulp into the bean. And that fermentation that helps remove the bitterness is what makes the coffee unique. I want people to taste the bean, not just the roast. The aroma is floral and chocolate; *the taste is chocolate malt with a bit of cherry; there's no bitterness; and it's very soft, like tea.* So it's kind of like a cross between coffee and tea."

*Short video:*
http://www.blackivorycoffee.com/ 

Hmmmm, Juan Valdés would say 'good to the last drop' no doubt, oh wait, that's Maxwell House's slogan. :biggrin:

Watch for it at a trendy café for snobs...cost = approx. $50 at equally trendy hotels.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Third degree burns.............one of the most painful injuries a person can endure.

My wife worked for years in the burn unit at a hospital. She would come home and cry a spell sometimes.

She had to perform the debridement......which is so painful the patients used to scream and swear at her.

But, years later the patients would return to the unit for a visit and thank the doctors and nurses, for being as scar free as possible.

Just saying...........the cost to McDonalds was as much a rounding error as the number of "hot coffee" incidents.

I think the deciding factor..........for me at at least........was their open admission that at 190 degrees the coffee was undrinkable without scalding the mouth.

They knew it and and yet............they kept brewing it at that temperature.

I gotta think.................what was wrong with those people.

Sometimes the only thing that will get a corporation's attention is a massive payout.......and that is probably why the original judgement was so high...........just to get somebody's attention to address the obvious problem.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

sags said:


> 1. I gotta think................*.what was wrong with those people.*
> 2. Sometimes the only thing that will get a corporation's attention is a massive payout.......and that is probably why the original *judgement was so high...........just to get somebody's attention to address the obvious problem*.
> 3. patients would return to the unit for a visit and *thank the doctors and nurses, for being as scar free as possible*.


*1.* Indifference, that's what.

'McDonald’s human factors engineer admitted that the number of hot coffee burns suffered by McDonald’s customers are “statistically 
insignificant” in comparison to the one billion cups of coffee sold by McDonald’s each year.' Yea, what's 700 accidents?

*2.* It had originally been high because it was concluded that, their conduct had been intentionally malicious, reckless and wilful. Damages are called punitive for a reason, to punish and to deter same misconduct in future.

*3.* No human indifference here. Nice feeling for all involved.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Just curious to know if anyone has actually won anything more than a free burger with the Monopoly stickers....


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

got a free muffin and a free sorbet !


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