# Oroville Dam



## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

"Scott explains to Chris how this crisis is indicative of the neglect of the entire US national dam system. Oroville is one of the best-managed and maintained dams in the country. If it still suffered from too much deferred maintenance, imagine how vulnerable the country's thousands and thousands of smaller dams are. Trillions of dollars are needed to bring our national dams up to satisfactory status. How much else is needed for the country's roads, railsystems, waterworks, power grids, etc?"

After intro, etc, interview starts at 3 minutes.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

That was fascinating, thanks for posting. This engineer was so well informed and articulate. Why do governments always emphasize big capital projects, then skimp on the maintenance? Short term thinking, and fear of losing votes. There are countless examples in Canada too. Like 24 Sussex, which was allowed to deteriorate to the point of being uninhabitable for want of maintenance. In health care, I have seen a provincial government announce capital funding for a new MRI but completely ignore the need to fund its operation, including staff. They like to have their name on a plaque.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

heyjude said:


> Why do governments always emphasize big capital projects, then skimp on the maintenance? .... They like to have their name on a plaque.


You answered your own question. Here in Ottawa, our mayor shows up for a photo at absolutely anything new that gets built - even when the local dentist opened a new office, Smilin' Jim was there.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Userkare said:


> You answered your own question.


It was a rhetorical question.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Trump did say he wanted to improve the infrastructure and the dams would be one good place to start. Another place would be updated and securing their electrical grid.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

new dog said:


> Trump did say he wanted to improve the infrastructure and the dams would be one good place to start. Another place would be updated and securing their electrical grid.


Did you listen right to the end? They discussed how much it would cost to bring the dams up to code in the US. They are mostly 50-100 years old. The speaker said he had done that analysis, and it would cost about $2 trillion. Trump has promised $500 billion, for everything.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Tough decision......borrow to replace crumbling infrastructure or tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Who cares what it costs the US is broke anyway and can never pay back the debt. I said it before, as long as the dollar holds value for whatever reason, get it done, before it is to late and you do go officially broke.


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

The bag of apples I bought last week came from Algoma Orchards, Newcastle, Ontario Canada; however, a lot of produce in my neck of the prairie comes from California.

On another forum I see this:

>"25% of California Food Production is within 1 hr. of this Lake.
If the concrete spillway is washed out, a 30 Ft wall of water will rush down the hillside. The problem won’t be the flood, or the 200,000 people displaced from farms, homes etc. it will be what comes after, the effect of the loss of the essential water for running the 25% of the food production will cause a economic hardship on California that there is no precedent for."<

I'm not sure about the "25%" bit, but it got me thinking that this is reason enough why Canadians might want to pay attention to the Dam issue. If this turns into a worst case scenario, leafy greens in winter going to be dear, Dear.

Wiki says this about irrigation:

>"Water and power from the dam contributes to the irrigation of 755,000 acres (306,000 ha) in the arid San Joaquin Valley Westside and municipal supplies to some 25 million people."<

Then there's this credible sounding comment below the article found here:
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/orovi...fornia-watch-pictures-video-videos-emergency/

>*John Love · Marysville, California* "What both of the people correcting the writer of this article are missing is that although the dam and the main spillway are not currently in danger of failing a failure of the emergency spillway could be a catastrophic event releasing a massive amount of water within a short period of time and could result in a wall of water near the break and very deep flooding for many miles to the south of the lake. In Item #1 of things to know this article refers clearly time and again that the current problem is confined to a "Hole In the Emergency Spillway." If this hole erodes the earth below the emergency spillway a possible massive washout of the emergency spillway could be catastrophic."<


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

heyjude said:


> That was fascinating, thanks for posting. This engineer was so well informed and articulate. Why do governments always emphasize big capital projects, then skimp on the maintenance? Short term thinking, and fear of losing votes. There are countless examples in Canada too. Like 24 Sussex, which was allowed to deteriorate to the point of being uninhabitable for want of maintenance. In health care, I have seen a provincial government announce capital funding for a new MRI but completely ignore the need to fund its operation, including staff. They like to have their name on a plaque.


Having listened to most of the story, I'm not sure this is a lack of maintenance so much as a flaw in the original design of the auxiliary/emergency spillway. It has only come to light recently when they finally put the emergency spillway to the test by restricting flow through the normal spillway; and found the flow through the emergency spillway was starting to undermine parts of that spillway, including the control structure at the top. It is, perhaps, a failure to do periodic reviews of dam designs and risk analyses to search for such weaknesses, but not a "maintenance" issue per se.

Generally speaking though, I agree with your comment on lack of maintenance of infrastructure.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Having listened to most of the story, I'm not sure this is a lack of maintenance so much as a flaw in the original design of the auxiliary/emergency spillway. It has only come to light recently when they finally put the emergency spillway to the test by restricting flow through the normal spillway; and found the flow through the emergency spillway was starting to undermine parts of that spillway, including the control structure at the top. It is, perhaps, a failure to do periodic reviews of dam designs and risk analyses to search for such weaknesses, but not a "maintenance" issue per se.
> 
> Generally speaking though, I agree with your comment on lack of maintenance of infrastructure.


Well, he said that they had allowed trees to grow on the emergency/auxiliary spillway. It was designed to handle a smooth flow of water, but trees would be ripped out, taking their root balls with them, resulting in holes for water to swirl around in, eating into the structure. (This is what has happened). He also described the grouting and drain maintenance that had been done to the main spillway (at the location of the current breach) several years ago, and how it hadn't been inspected for several years. 

I also saw another video yesterday that was quite interesting. This guy is updating what he saw from the air on February 10th. He explains it well. 

https://youtu.be/XKW_YG1jq8A

In my next life, I want to be an engineer.


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

@heyjude

Thanks for posting that video - very good.

I've seen a couple other videos on the topic, but they try to sensationalize an already bad situation, and I won't link to what seems to be garbage info - fake news.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The biggest flood in recent (known?) Canadian history was caused by poorly maintained dams



> The department has not succeeded in ensuring that the law on inspecting dams has been respected. The law was adopted in 2002 responding to the aftermath of the Saguenay floods in 1996... commission investigating the floods found that there was poor co-ordination and management of the 2,000 dams in the area.


source


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is a good reminder that when politicians start talking about eliminating regulations or reducing the number of people working in the public service, that the people ask exactly where those cuts will be made.

Cutting costs is great, but I think most people still would like to know their infrastructure is getting inspected and maintained, or the meat they are eating meets a high standard of regulatory standard, or if they call in an emergency someone is going to respond.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

This is certainly an issue going into the future. Dams, and especially dam components like spillways, are not design to last forever. 50 years is pretty good, 100 tops. Certainly not multiple hundreds, though earthfill structures like Oroville might last hundreds if well maintained.

Doesn't seem like a maintenance problem though (on emergency) from all these links, but a lack of sufficient spillway construction/design robustness and armouring. Some probably don't need it, but look at (google earth) the slope downstream of the emergency spillway, it's about 10H:1V, a very steep hill.

The big concern as I see it is that they are now worried about _any_ water being up against the concrete face of the emergency spillway, hence the call to lower the pond elevation by 50' (the emergency dam is 59' tall by my google estimate). There has been severe erosion downstream, which has saturated the ground that has never been saturated like that before, and a significant weight of soil has been removed from the downstream toe of the concrete structure as well. The major risk now is the footing of the emergency spillway might slide, causing the concrete to fracture and the emergency spillway to literally "split open".

The good news is it looks like there is significant fill (beach) on the upstream side of the emergency spillway, it is only 25' high on this side, and they said yesterday that the water is already brought down 20 feet from max. So likely there is no water against the concrete of the spillway at this point. 

It will be interesting if they slow the rates of the main spillway now, once the emergency spillway is not in a critical state, to stave off the "head cutting" up the main spillway. 

The main spillway eroding is the primary concern here, both from a protecting the Oroville dam, and a "how the hell did this happen" perspective. It is not surprising the emergency spillway had severe downstream erosion when used. It IS surprising that the main spillway failed due to full bore flow through it. That may have been a maintenance issue, and really shouldn't have happened.

With its location next the dam, if the main spillway is lost the dam could very well go too, if the emergency spillway breaks, it may not make its way to the Oroville dam and take it out. You'd be looking at only partial drainage of the reservoir instead of full, and at flow rates a small fraction of a Main spillway/dam failure. Of course it may progressively take out the main spillway and then dam, but the chances of that are lower than a direct main spillway failure. Likely (hopefully) there is enough distance and elevation built into the main spillway so if it fails and flows uncontrolled it will not affect the O Dam. From google earth again, it appears there is some significant material between the two, though whether it is constructed fill or bedrock I'm not sure, but it is slightly reassuring. 

Anyways - back to my breakfast mimosas on the beach (Cancun)  But I couldn't resist following this story even on vacation.


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

Construction of Oroville Dam in the '60s and dedicated by Gov Ronald Reagan on May 4, 1968.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wow...........that dam is massive and it is gradually eroding away. almost 900 feet of water held behind it ? Yikes, how do they fix that ?

I am not an engineer, but would it not have been better to have a series of step down dams with spillways, rather than one monstrous dam?


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

Fortunately, the eight inches of rain predicted by some fear mongers has not materialized. Rain is in the forecast until Wed, but doesn't look too serious.

*Inflow* column fluctuates mostly because of temperature changes which affects the amount of snow melt.

The plan was to reduce water level by 50 feet before heavy rains come so that water won't go over the emergency spillway again. They have another nine feet to go, and it's slow going.

This table updates every hour:
https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?ORO

Screen shot 02/17/2017 14:00 



uploading images


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

Excellent update from *Juan Browne*.






Note on the height of the dam:
- maximum water level in the reservoir is 900 feet above sea level
- the dam itself is 770 feet high (see Wiki) 

For dam enthusiasts, there's an interesting 3-part docu about spillway repair at Glen Canyon Dam after the flood of June 1983.

The link to part one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHpKvQ9XHV4


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*http://www.thegoldenstar.net/*

*"Can Oroville Dam situation happen in Revelstoke?"*
By ALEX COOPER
February 23, 2017

http://www.thegoldenstar.net/news/414630404.html?mobile=true

*Snip:*

"Some of our major spillways haven't been used in the last 4.5 years now. After those spills, we closely inspected them and have effected repairs, but we've also done a lot more. If we see something we think could turn serious in future spills, we get on it and we do major rehabilitation work. At (W.A.C. Bennett Dam), we spent $64 million to replace areas of damaged concrete in the spillway chute, and to provide safe access for that work, and to make sure we can get in quickly to do any future repairs. We look really closely at our spillways after a major spill and spend money when and as required."










Maintaining spillways, like the one at Mica Dam, is key to dam safety, says Stephen Rigbey, BC Hydro's head of dam safety. 
/ BC HYDRO


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*Published on Mar 17, 2017*
"I got there just in time to witness the "Grand Re-Opening" of the main spillway at Oroville after 2 weeks and 1.25 million cu. yards of debris removed. Also a complete press briefing update."
*~ Juan Browne*

Re-Opening of Main Spillway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQe0J5NLLT4


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

15-minute update from *Juan Browne*
Published on Mar 24, 2017

Evacuation warning at Oroville was lifted on March 22/17.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gnOziaifIY


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

"This may very well be an historic update, as this may be the last time that we see water spilling over the busted spillway in it's present condition using the canyon - Croyle Canyon so to speak."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB0s2fEPltA


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*Oroville Update : Phase 1 DONE!!* (15 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW0y_wkrCwM

Spillway:

3000' long
180' wide
at start of repair, the main plunge pool was nearly 150' deep; now filled with roller compacted concrete (RCC)


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