# Alternatives to cable TV and internet



## jwsclark19

Hi everyone,

With cable/TV packages typically costing around $145/month combined, what other alternatives are you using? Don't worry....I don't pay $145. My current package would normally be $145/month, but I phone them up every few months and threaten to cancel my service. Right now, I've got cable/internet for $60/month, but they told me after 3 months, that's all they're giving me....We'll see.

Anyways. I have Netflix which is pretty nice, but do you guys have any other way of subscribing to a service provided maybe online that plays more like TV? Only problem with Netflix is I can't watch the news, watch sports etc, as well as some of our favourite new shows that air on TV certain days of the week. Thanks!


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## cainvest

Depending on your area you can get a simple antenna for free OTA signals, that'll give you local news.

BTW, you can see what you'll likely get with tvfool here ->TV Fool Signal Locater


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## carverman

I quit those TV signal scammers two years ago. TV is mostly junk these days except for the 6 oclock news and some evening shows..not many.

I bought the Winegard flatwave antenna. It's amplified. Get reasonalbly good reception on 4 or 5 english channels and about 4 french channels.
Some of the channels are weaker, but they still come in on good days. 

The thing I like about the flatwave is that you can hang it in a window, it doesn't take up any space. 
I have mine angled a bit on a plexiglass bracket to pickup the signals a bit better than flat on the window.

You have to be careful about watching a lot of TV online..it takes a lot of bandwidth and those GB of bandwidth
that you are allowed each month can add up very quickly. You don't want to go over your monthly BW ..
otherwise it will cost you more. 

I also watch Netflix..best value out there for movies or documentaries.


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## axelis

Same here, got rid of cable TV (Rogers) when I realized we were paying for our kids to watch TreeHouse, and we could buy tons of kids DVD (at the time) for half the price, and get/give a better control on what they watch. Netflix also works (tried it at some point), and our kids are older now so they start using YouTube on the computer. So we've lived cable-free for at least 2 to 3 years now and I don't miss it. Unfortunately as the kids grow they may want it to be on the same page as other kids, but at the same time at the rate it's going kids may not really be watching TV anymore in a few years...? 

We kept internet, with Primus (internet + phone, just cut long distance 2 months ago).


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## jwsclark19

All good comments! I think once my $60/month deal ends that I negotiated, I am going to haggle them again. If that doesn't work, I'm just going to cancel my TV service. I can keep my internet, watch Netflix, and stream hockey games etc. For $50-60/month normal price, I get internet with unlimited bandwidth from MTS here in Manitoba. Hopefully I can extend my deal I have with them right now. Usually by the time I take my haggling to their cancellation department, the manager ends up giving me a special deal. For their normal price of $145/month for cable/internet, their profit margins must be out of this world, so there has to be some room to negotiate with them.


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## e86s54

This has been discussed before, but here goes;

I was with Cogeco...with HD TV, sports package, two DVRs, internet (5 up, 15 down, 200G cap) & phone, I was around $230/mth, when my kids didn't blow by my cap!

I switched to Vmedia. Same HD TV options (approx), but via IP TV, Internet is also via cable (cogeco) with 20 down, 10 up and no cap and phone. Now paying $95. Vbox has PVR capabilities along with network pvr.

Vmedia have had some problems lately with software updates to their vboxes which was a bit of a pain, but seems to be largely fixed now. Be aware that this is not cable TV. So if you have no tech ability and are a hard core TV watcher, this is not for you.

For us, it satisfies out TV needs, the unlimited internet is excellent and the phone is really more for our alarm system than anything else (we have cells). So I'm happy with it, and the $100+ savings a month.


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## off.by.10

Being near Montreal, we have two antennas in my attic and get more OTA TV than we have time to watch (~20 channels). We're lucky enough to get a handful of stations from the US too. As for internet, we're with distributel which is basically reselling us the videotron cable service for a bit less money (it gets real expensive when you no longer bundle with TV). I think we've had that setup for 3 years now. It works well enough.


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## Sherlock

I can't fathom paying $145/month...

My internet is $40/month. For TV I have netflix and an OTA antenna. I guess cable is more important to those who need to watch sports. I don't watch sports so I'm lucky there.

I think Rogers is going to make its version of netflix (shomi) available to all, currently it's only available to their own cable internet subscribers. Then there's Sling TV which is $20/month and has live TV but is US only currently.


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## Userkare

e86s54 said:


> I switched to Vmedia. Same HD TV options (approx), but via IP TV, Internet is also via cable (cogeco) with 20 down, 10 up and no cap and phone. Now paying $95. Vbox has PVR capabilities along with network pvr.
> 
> Vmedia have had some problems lately with software updates to their vboxes which was a bit of a pain, but seems to be largely fixed now. Be aware that this is not cable TV. So if you have no tech ability and are a hard core TV watcher, this is not for you.



I agree that if you just want to watch TV, and not spend time having to be a network analyst every evening, then stay away from IPTV. I tried both Ontario IPTV providers, and now I'm back to Rogers Cable, happy to pay the extra few bucks a month to watch dependable TV.


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## none

I pay $30 a month for internet and bittorrent everything. Cheap, fast and easy.


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## HaroldCrump

Why even pay $30 when you can steal?
Just hack into your neighbor's WiFi, and save the $30 too.


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## none

HaroldCrump said:


> Why even pay $30 when you can steal?
> Just hack into your neighbor's WiFi, and save the $30 too.


Hacking a Wifi password isn't trivial. There is an unsecured one though but it's not terribly reliable. I could hack into the model to boost the signal but that seems like a fair bit of work to save just $30. Anyway, paying $30 is well worth having a dedicated connection where I can manage bandwidth.


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## Letran

none, you might have missed Harold's point. :biggrin:


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## none

Letran said:


> none, you might have missed Harold's point. :biggrin:


Did I? Or did I just choose not to take the bait?


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## HaroldCrump

No bait. Stealing is not frugality.


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## none

Oh no? Then where does the saying 'five finger discount' come from?


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## fatcat

none, you are simply stealing thats all ... say it and you'll feel better
at least you won't be lying to yourself even as you continue to lie to others

'hi, my names' none and i steal other people ****" 

that particular party is getting lights out: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/08/michael-geist-copyright-modernization-act_n_6436584.html

ps. i am sympathetic and understand the motivation to steal stuff that simply isn't available anywhere since we now can see worldwide whats on the web using vpn's and there is a huge amount of material available 

i am trying to figure out if i can use my us credit card and buy "hbo go" when it becomes available in a few months ... you can "borrow" a password but that is actually a felony theft of service


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## My Own Advisor

Sounds like a good plan none.


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## none

Sure, I suppose it is technically stealing but it doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't purchase the service anyway so there are no 'true loss' to those that own the content. 

It's a justification but we all do it every day. Go out for dinner? You could have provided vaccinations to poor people in India. We all struggle with where on the hypocrisy scale we are comfortable being.

As for the laws, I obtain my shows from private trackers and therefore there's no way for people to identify that their show is being torrented in that stream and report it.


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## My Own Advisor

I'd be careful, that's all.

I figure at some point they will hunt people stealing down.

I know I want to get an OTA. I've heard there are some good ones? Others can recommend one?


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## none

What's an OTA?


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## Userkare

My Own Advisor said:


> I know I want to get an OTA. I've heard there are some good ones? Others can recommend one?


If you're talking about Over-The-Air antenna, I have a Channel Master HD4228 facing south and an HD4221 facing north; they're merged before a pre-amp. 

I'm on an almost straight line between Camp Fortune, and Herbert's Corners - the two transmission towers in the Ottawa area. I pointed the bigger antenna south b/c I was able to pick up a few US stations when I put the antenna on a mast connected to the chimney; lately the US stations are gone (?). Maybe I have a loose connection, or maybe the stations changed their power output. In any case, all the local Canadian stations come in beautifully clear in full HD. I have Rogers Cable TV, but the OTA setup is a good back-up.


If OTA means something different, then never mind. :stupid:


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## My Own Advisor

Nope, you got it Userkare! Sorry none, I don't like acronyms for that reason I should have spelled it out!

-1 for me.

Thanks very much for the information, in Ottawa as well.


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## JordoR

I cut my cable months ago and have no regrets. The only reason I was keeping my cable was for sports channels. However, living on the westcoast and having all my favorite teams on the east, I would never get the games I wanted to see anyway. It was getting hard to justify $45/month just for one channel. Now I just stream all my sports and can pick any game I want to watch.

However, my internet plan costs $80/month but there is no way around that cost. I need the 50mb/s for the speed and bandwidth since I hit my cap nearly every month.


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## fatcat

none said:


> Sure, I suppose it is technically stealing but it doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't purchase the service anyway so there are no 'true loss' to those that own the content.
> 
> It's a justification but we all do it every day. Go out for dinner? You could have provided vaccinations to poor people in India. We all struggle with where on the hypocrisy scale we are comfortable being.
> 
> As for the laws, I obtain my shows from private trackers and therefore there's no way for people to identify that their show is being torrented in that stream and report it.


technically stealing as opposed to say "actually stealing" ? .. alrighty

this is great ... so you are saying : "i would never purchase this content anyway so that's why i steal it" ... 

how are you on say batteries at the convenience store ? ... 
you would never buy them because they are too expensive so that makes them super-good to steal !!?? :biggrin:

and your ethical problems are then assigned to and shared by the rest of us because we choose to go out to dinner instead of sending money for vaccinations to india ?

spectacular ... marvelous ... excellent :biggrin::hopelessness:


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## off.by.10

none said:


> Sure, I suppose it is technically stealing but it doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't purchase the service anyway so there are no 'true loss' to those that own the content.


Yeah yeah, keep telling yourself that. Clearly, the content has some value to you or you wouldn't bother downloading it nor waste the time needed to watch it.


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## JordoR

Alright clearly there are varying opinions on the whole issue of downloading in here, but that is to be expected.

Getting back on topic, does anyone have a window mounted OTA they would recommend in the budget range of under $100?


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## Userkare

JordoR said:


> Getting back on topic, does anyone have a window mounted OTA they would recommend in the budget range of under $100?


If you're close to the signal source, you can receive OTA stations with a few wires, a bent coat hanger, and an inexpensive balun - seriously! 

Do an internet search for bowtie or dipole antenna...

http://www.diytvantennas.com/bowtie.php


Start off with just 2 elements and see what you can get. Add more elements ( in pairs ) to see if you can pull in Seattle ( assuming your window faces South ).


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## JordoR

Userkare said:


> If you're close to the signal source, you can receive OTA stations with a few wires, a bent coat hanger, and an inexpensive balun - seriously!
> 
> Do an internet search for bowtie or dipole antenna...
> 
> http://www.diytvantennas.com/bowtie.php
> 
> 
> Start off with just 2 elements and see what you can get. Add more elements ( in pairs ) to see if you can pull in Seattle ( assuming your window faces South ).


Thanks for the suggestions - it actually reminds me of the homemade one my friend showed me in his attic. However, I definitely want something aesthetically pleasing which is why I was interested in the window mounted options. I live in an apartment so there isn't really somewhere I could stash away a homemade option. I face East and looking at TVFool I should be able to get 7 local channels no problem. My patio faces south though, so always another option..


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## none

Judge all you guys want - I don't lose any sleep over it.

Speaking of which, I think I'll download the first season of the Doctor who reboot now, takes 10 minutes .... pretty sweet service if you have the know how. 

PS if anyone wants an invite to a private tracker PM me 


EDIT: YEASH, guys, guys, I've gotten 11 PMs in the last hour asking for invites..... cool it - I barely even know you people!


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## carverman

JordoR said:


> However, I definitely want something aesthetically pleasing which is why I was interested in the window mounted options. I live in an apartment so there isn't really somewhere I could stash away a homemade option. I face East and looking at TVFool I should be able to get 7 local channels no problem. My patio faces south though, so always another option..


This is what I have now after kicking sat tv. where the dishe freezes up in the winter, and you get constant signal interruptions.
They were robbing me on their charges for basic TV channels. 
http://www.amazon.ca/Winegard-Company-FL-5000-FlatWave-Digital/dp/B0063705PE

This is an amplified flat wave OTA antenna..not as good as a tower mount antenna with a rotator, but for most people, the tower is not an option.

The way this antenna works is, to secure it to a window..preferably facing the transmitter source...and that depends on what area of the city you live. It comes with double sided sticky tape for that purpose, but before doing that
you want to hang it temporarily to find the optimum angle and height. 

I started off mounting mine on the glass but found the best reception is, it working off a plexiglass plastic bracket, that is in turn hung off a wooden base secured to the wall. 

It takes some work as you have to rescan the digital channels on your tv and look for best reception. On the
strong channels (higher transmitted power) it is fairly easy to catch them, but not all channels will be transmitted
at the same power level from the same signal source (antenna) so you need to experiment the best location.

It is not rocket science, but it is finicky, because you need to find the optimum spot to get the best reception,
as with any antenna. 

It comes with enough coax to run 8 feet or so to your tv. It has a power LED and needs a power source. You can add addtional coax to it, if the window or wall area where it ends up in it's final optimized location is not conveniently located to the TV.


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## cainvest

JordoR said:


> Thanks for the suggestions - it actually reminds me of the homemade one my friend showed me in his attic. However, I definitely want something aesthetically pleasing which is why I was interested in the window mounted options. I live in an apartment so there isn't really somewhere I could stash away a homemade option. I face East and looking at TVFool I should be able to get 7 local channels no problem. My patio faces south though, so always another option..


For "aesthetically pleasing" I'd try these first,
- small piece (9" or so) of wire in the ant center hole, that hides behind the TV set and isn't seen.
- same wire as above but connect it to coax that you can move around to find the best reception in "hidden" spots.
- find an old rabbit ear anetnna, those can usually be hidden pretty easily.


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## JordoR

carverman said:


> This is what I have now after kicking sat tv. where the dishe freezes up in the winter, and you get constant signal interruptions.
> They were robbing me on their charges for basic TV channels.
> http://www.amazon.ca/Winegard-Company-FL-5000-FlatWave-Digital/dp/B0063705PE
> 
> This is an amplified flat wave OTA antenna..not as good as a tower mount antenna with a rotator, but for most people, the tower is not an option.
> 
> The way this antenna works is, to secure it to a window..preferably facing the transmitter source...and that depends on what area of the city you live. It comes with double sided sticky tape for that purpose, but before doing that
> you want to hang it temporarily to find the optimum angle and height.
> 
> I started off mounting mine on the glass but found the best reception is, it working off a plexiglass plastic bracket, that is in turn hung off a wooden base secured to the wall.
> 
> It takes some work as you have to rescan the digital channels on your tv and look for best reception. On the
> strong channels (higher transmitted power) it is fairly easy to catch them, but not all channels will be transmitted
> at the same power level from the same signal source (antenna) so you need to experiment the best location.
> 
> It is not rocket science, but it is finicky, because you need to find the optimum spot to get the best reception,
> as with any antenna.
> 
> It comes with enough coax to run 8 feet or so to your tv. It has a power LED and needs a power source. You can add addtional coax to it, if the window or wall area where it ends up in it's final optimized location is not conveniently located to the TV.


Excellent thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for, and it's not a huge investment either if I end up not liking it.
I have about 30' of Eastern facing windows so I will have some fun finding the optimum location, and trying to find a spot to pick up Seattle channels as well. The 8' cable provided would be much too short, but I have plenty of long coax cables at home.


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## carverman

JordoR said:


> Excellent thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for, and it's not a huge investment either if I end up not liking it.
> I have about 30' of Eastern facing windows so I will have some fun finding the optimum location, and trying to find a spot to pick up Seattle channels as well. The 8' cable provided would be much too short, but I have plenty of long coax cables at home.


I measured my antenna coax that comes with the antenna. 10 feet to the power module and about 3ft from that to where it
plugs into your TV with the standard F connector. 
You will need a barrel adapter (coaxial inline connector) to connect the antenna cable to a long length of coax cable.
Not sure how much attenuation there will be from the 30 feet of coax, but you can try it.
These should be available at any TV store, even CTC sells them.


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## JordoR

carverman said:


> I measured my antenna coax that comes with the antenna. 10 feet to the power module and about 3ft from that to where it
> plugs into your TV with the standard F connector.
> You will need a barrel adapter (coaxial inline connector) to connect the antenna cable to a long length of coax cable.
> Not sure how much attenuation there will be from the 30 feet of coax, but you can try it.
> These should be available at any TV store, even CTC sells them.
> 
> View attachment 3257


Thanks for measuring the distances, appreciate that. It won't be 30' of coax, that's just the length of window and then it will be about 10-12' to the opposite wall where my TV is located. Thanks for the tip about the inline connector, I have quite a few in my giant box of cables.


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## e86s54

The "barrel" connectors are called "Feedthru" 30' of coax will depend on the frequency of the channel and cable type (59U, 6U, 11U). The larger the cable, the lower the freq, the lower the loss. But since it has a preamp built in, that shouldn't be an issue. But if your signal is week, and amp will amplify both the signal and noise, while adding its own noise...so won't do much.

The antenna itself just looks like a bow-tie antenna. The simpler the antenna, the lower the gain. So ok when relatively close to transmitter. The distance would depend on how and where the TV transmitter projects its beam and polarity.

Those long antennas we all had on our house are that way for a reason. The antenna is only one of the elements (aluminium arms), the others help focus the beam and eliminate multi-path (parasitic elements). So all these simple antennas would need favorable environments to work properly.

The reality is that with a good internet connection and a little research, you can stream just about anything. For example, I was in the Caribbean on a sailboat over the holidays and missing the World Juniors. I had a decent internet connection in the harbor, so I managed to find a TSN stream and watch the game in near HD quality! It all seems to be out there and available.


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## amitdi

You can get some ideas from here - 

http://www.howtosavemoney.ca/108-my-cost-for-high-speed-internet-tv-2-cell-phones-home-phone-long-distance-and-movies


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## Gimme the Green

Live sports is always what kills cutting the cord for me. NHL in the winter and NCAA football in the fall. I probably only watch one of each per week but i like to know its there when I have the time. Anybody try the rogers nhl online streaming? Maybe NHL center ice if using a VPN. Would like to just try it and see how smooth or choppy it is....


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## JordoR

Gimme the Green said:


> Live sports is always what kills cutting the cord for me. NHL in the winter and NCAA football in the fall. I probably only watch one of each per week but i like to know its there when I have the time. Anybody try the rogers nhl online streaming? Maybe NHL center ice if using a VPN. Would like to just try it and see how smooth or choppy it is....


It was the sticking point for me as well, I can't live without my NFL seasons. However, with XBMC (now Kodi) and the Sportsdevil addon, I get every single sports game I could ever want streamed.


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## Gimme the Green

JordoR said:


> It was the sticking point for me as well, I can't live without my NFL seasons. However, with XBMC (now Kodi) and the Sportsdevil addon, I get every single sports game I could ever want streamed.


I've never tried the sports devil add-on, sounds like you are happy with it? Are the games in HD?


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## JordoR

Gimme the Green said:


> I've never tried the sports devil add-on, sounds like you are happy with it? Are the games in HD?


I can't complain for free... the games are mostly in 720p, so not quite as good as you may receive on your 1080p HD Cable... but this way I can pick and choose what games I want to watch instead of being at the mercy of the cable company. My problem with cable was being on the west coast I would never get east coast games...


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## realist

We have Netflix, and an OTA antenna but barely use it except for sports and live stuff. We are in Toronto and get pretty good reception for the local major networks. We stream or download most of our TV either through legal option or through torrents (Most major networks stream shows on their websites.) depending on the show. The main reason for downloading vs streaming is that many of the legit sites only have the most recent episodes and we can't keep up with all the shows!  

We also borrow a TON of DVDs from the Toronto library. If you don't mind waiting for stuff you can easily keep yourself entertained in Toronto with OTA + Netflix + Library. Even buying full seasons of all the TV we watch on BluRay would be cheaper than paying for cable. 

Rogers Anywhere has some stuff but most of its locked unless you are also a Rogers Cable subscriber, and the NFB site has great docs and Canadian content available for free as well.


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## Gimme the Green

realist said:


> We also borrow a TON of DVDs from the Toronto library. If you don't mind waiting for stuff you can easily keep yourself entertained in Toronto with OTA + Netflix + Library. Even buying full seasons of all the TV we watch on BluRay would be cheaper than paying for cable.


Very good point. We borrow media from the library as well.


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## bgc_fan

Just to add an option. Sony offers Crackle which streams some of their back catalog of movies and TV series for free.

Another thought is that many CDN stations do stream some of their latest episodes on line. Depending on the show and station it may be only a week, to a full season.


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## Rob_23

Cut my cable 2-3 years ago and never looked back.

I did some research and bought a Antennas Direct db4e and a Channel Master 7777 pre amp. I get about 25 channels here in north Pickering (GTA) and that's from behind a wall of pine trees and located about 20' off the ground. Used to get closer to 40 channels when I lived down by the lake. Best part of OTA other than its free is that you received direct feeds from the US. So no Super Bowl commercial blackouts!!! All for about $200 and installed myself.


I also subscribe to unblock-us.com ($5/m) to allow me to get US Netflix and HuluPlus ($8/m each) and I can easily switch back and forth to canadian netflix content anytime.

And finally I have a ASUS Chromebox ($200) running Kodi (xbmc) in my living room to get anything else.

The only thing there is no way around is CP24! Only way I can access it is from the cp24 app on my ipad and use my parents bell login. O well it's works.

My ISP is Teksavvy $85/mth tax in for 30mbps and unlimited downloading.


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## none

Rob_23 said:


> I also subscribe to unblock-us.com ($5/m) to allow me to get US Netflix and HuluPlus ($8/m each) and I can easily switch back and forth to canadian netflix content anytime.


That's effectively stealing. I have no issues with it.


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## Synergy

none said:


> That's effectively stealing. I have no issues with it.


Mr. Wonderful while on a Lang & O'leary episode claimed he uses a VPN service in order to access Hulu, etc. I was quite surprised he'd say this on live TV but I guess he for one has no problem with this form of piracy.


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## cainvest

Synergy said:


> Mr. Wonderful while on a Lang & O'leary episode claimed he uses a VPN service in order to access Hulu, etc. I was quite surprised he'd say this on live TV but I guess he for one has no problem with this form of piracy.


But is it illegal, as in stealing/piracy?

Interesting that Netflix could easily stop it but yet they don't.


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## Synergy

cainvest said:


> But is it illegal, as in stealing/piracy?
> 
> Interesting that Netflix could easily stop it but yet they don't.


I'm no expert on copyright law but I believe there are laws with regards to accessing geo-blocked content in the Copyright Act. I don't follow this type of stuff but I think companies like hulu, etc. are constantly updating their software to block people from using plugins, VPN's, etc...


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## cainvest

Synergy said:


> I'm no expert on copyright law but I believe there are laws with regards to accessing geo-blocked content in the Copyright Act. I don't follow this type of stuff but I think companies like hulu, etc. are constantly updating their software to block people from using plugins, VPN's, etc...


I'm not an expert either but based on articles on the web it seems the only issue is with the Netflix contract, in other words, you're not "supposed to" access the US site from Canada. If there was truely an illegal component to this you'd think Netflix would immediately stop this from happening or they would face legal action against them.


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## Synergy

cainvest said:


> I'm not an expert either but based on articles on the web it seems the only issue is with the Netflix contract, in other words, you're not "supposed to" access the US site from Canada. If there was truely an illegal component to this you'd think Netflix would immediately stop this from happening or they would face legal action against them.


Take a look at companies like Getty Images, they have a whole legal department that attempts to go after copyright infringers. In these cases they may actually want to make it easy / easy enough for people to violate their policies. It's all about the cash...


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## cainvest

Synergy said:


> Take a look at companies like Getty Images, they have a whole legal department that attempts to go after copyright infringers. In these cases they may actually want to make it easy / easy enough for people to violate their policies. It's all about the cash...


Of course that's assuming copyright laws are being broken by the people using the US side, many "experts" say they are not. I think it's all sitting in a grey area and Netflix will shut it down if legal action against them occurs.


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