# Saltwater Aquarium



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Anybody have one?

This has become my new obsession as of late. I am now trying to figure out how to obtain about ~$5k for my dream tank, which would be well over 200+ Gallons that I would have in my basement. About 6+ ft long taking up a large portion of the basement wall. So big that you could actually lie down in it! 

This is what I've been working on for the past few months....


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Kaej I had one of these about 15 years ago and a beautiful angel fish ,I swear in another life she was a dog because she would bump her nose on the glass for us to feed her pellets.She lived 5 years and it was heart break for all of us when she died but you have to understand it is a great deal of work to keep the ph levels right ,cleaning etc.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i knew a guy who a tank covering an entire wall at the end of his small dining room apartment
he said the coral alone was worth 25K

i have been thinking about one also (but i suspect will just continue to think and not do)

as you know a saltwater tank that big is a not a hobby but a lifestyle
a LOT of work


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I wouldn't say that it is too much work. In fact, a lot of it can be automated. I spend about 1 hour/week on my tank. It depends on what it is that you are doing.

For example, marina, you mentioned pH. pH is one of those levels that you rarely should have to monitor, so long as you have your Alkalinity + Calcium in check. If your Alkalinity is in check, then your pH should more or less be stabilized.

There are pumps that you can buy that will top off the water for you (ATO's, Automatic Top Off), you can get pumps that will constantly drip buffers, calcium, magnesium, or any other supplement you need.

My tank is small, of course, and I definitely don't have $25k of coral. I probably have about $300 worth of coral in there.

I have done aquariums before, but only on the freshwater side. This is my first journey into saltwater. It seems to be quite simple once the tank matures.

I admit, for the first month, I was spending a lot more time on it. Sometimes 2 hours a day. I had to figure out how much of each supplement to add, what worked well, what didn't, etc. But now that it is mature, the tank takes care of itself for the most part. I might have to scrape off a small amount of algae film from the glass every week, but that only takes 5 minutes or so and I don't even have to get my hands wet!


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I've done a lot of freshwater but only a few small salt water tanks. Salt is tougher in smaller tanks because the whole ecosystem is less stable. If you are gonna get a big tank you will want to do a lot of research and save up. The budgets go quickly and salt tanks are money pits. $5k will go fast so be prepared. 

Keep in mind that you'll want to make sure your floor can support a 200 gallon tank. Outside or load bearing walls or preferably the basement. A salt mixing reservoir in your sump can be nice if you have the room. You'll want a good drain somewhere near by and if you are up to it, add plumbing supply under or near the tank. A good RO unit is recommended. 

Do lots of research into your equipment and setup so you only have to buy components once. 

Read lots, I like Reef Central Forums myself.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Anybody have one?
> 
> This has become my new obsession as of late. I am now trying to figure out how to obtain about ~$5k for my dream tank, which would be well over 200+ Gallons that I would have in my basement. About 6+ ft long taking up a large portion of the basement wall. So big that you could actually lie down in it!
> 
> This is what I've been working on for the past few months....


Nice pic..I like the clown fish in there with the coral. When I was carving and airbrushing fish, I carved a couple of them for a carving show.

My friend's son has a saltwater tank with coral,..at least 200 gals in one and another one he got a couple of years back.
He is starting to build a collection and it is a fair amount of work... and expense to set up a saltwater acquarium, pumps, special lighting to simulate tropical daylight (a fairly hefty load on the electrical circuits) he had to rewire his basement (where he keeps the tanks) with new wiring to accommodate the pumps, filters and overhead lighting. 

It's a "fair investment"..and yes you may have trouble with the floor supports, depending on where you live.
the 200 gal tank weighs around 500lbs Empty..... never mind the coral environment and salt water at 9.6 lbs per gallon = 2000lbs (or 1 ton + the weight of the empty tank (400-500lbs)

Saltwater Coral Reef System – $90 to $150 per gallon to set up, 

Not to state the obvious but these things can weigh a ton. Well, probably closer to 2 tons based on the 1000 lbs tank, plus water, coral, rocks, sand. Just for your education, fresh water weighs about 8.35 lbs per gallon and salt water is 8.6 lbs per gallon. *If in doubt, seek a structural engineer’s opinion. Be sure that the location you pick can be upgraded to support this amount of weight. So, closer to a load bearing wall the better and on the lower floor (or a 2+ story house) are probably good ideas.*
As far as the algae accumulation, he actually has a fish to clean off the algae...and a hermit crab. 

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/algaemarineplantcare/tp/rockglasscleaners.htm

Interesting hobby, something that I could not afford ever.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

It would be cheaper to simply move to the waterfront.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

steve41 said:


> It would be cheaper to simply move to the waterfront.


+1
but it would have to be a coral reef waterfront and those are only around tropical islands


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Kae - that photo looks fantastic.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Four Pillars said:


> Kae - that photo looks fantastic.


+1


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> Nice pic..
> 
> It's a "fair investment"..and yes you may have trouble with the floor supports, depending on where you live.
> the 200 gal tank weighs around 500lbs Empty..... never mind the coral environment and salt water at 9.6 lbs per gallon = 2000lbs (or 1 ton + the weight of the empty tank (400-500lbs)
> ...


Carver, thank you for the comment on the picture.

Definitely, water weighs a ton and it's a no brainer that things add up extremely quickly, especially when adding live rock/sand to the tank. Once you get into adding refugiums and sump tanks, your 200 gallon tank could turn into a cycling of 300 gallons of water in one area.

I wouldn't even consider a 200+ gallon tank on any floor but the basement unless you had some concrete or support work done underneath. Otherwise, you might come home one day and have a hole in your floor, a 300gallon flood, and a loss of expensive coral/fish life. Not to mention all that time and work and all the work and headache that would come AFTER the disaster!

As for the algae, I do have various snail species that do consume the algae. However, as I am trying to grow my corals as quickly as possible, I am using an over abundance of light. The light that I am using is extremely powerful and overkill for my size of tank. The snails can't keep up. After about a week, you can see all the snail "trail marks" along the glass, but the algae still wins. Until I reduce my photo period and wattage, the algae will accumulate (unless I get more snails). More snails doesn't appeal to me as I will not keep my photoperiod this intense indefinitely into the future and it will change. The light I have now is hooked up to a dimmer switch and automatic timer, so I can always reduce/increase light intensity and/or change the photoperiod.



steve41 said:


> It would be cheaper to simply move to the waterfront.


That's not even the same experience. Even if I do move to the waterfront (which I think most people would like) I would still have to have a fish tank inside the home. You can't observe aquatic life from the waterfront. :rolleyes2:



Four Pillars said:


> Kae - that photo looks fantastic.





Nemo2 said:


> +1


Thank you Mike and _Nemo_


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

And yes, the Saltwater hobby is expensive.

I figured it would be interesting to see if anyone owned one on this forum for two reasons:

1) The saltwater hobby is sometimes associated with the wealthy

2) The saltwater hobby is something a frugal person would not entertain

:biggrin:

I would say I am extremely frugal, except for when it comes to things that I enjoy. There are few things that I like a lot, but when it comes to those things... I tend to go all out.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I wouldn't even consider a 200+ gallon tank on any floor but the basement unless you had some concrete or support work done underneath. Otherwise, you might come home one day and have a hole in your floor, a 300gallon flood, and a loss of expensive coral/fish life. Not to mention all that time and work and all the work and headache that would come AFTER the disaster!
> 
> . *The light that I am using is extremely powerful and overkill for my size of tank.* The snails can't keep up. After about a week, you can see all the snail "trail marks" along the glass, but the algae still wins. Until I reduce my photo period and wattage, the algae will accumulate (unless I get more snails). More snails doesn't appeal to me as I will not keep my photoperiod this intense indefinitely into the future and it will change. The light I have now is hooked up to a dimmer switch and automatic timer, so I can always reduce/increase light intensity and/or change the photoperiod.


There is a light spectrum that is ideal for coral..simulates the light that these "animals" require.



> Coloration of coral polyps and tissues is dictated by these zooxanthellae. By differing the spectral output of our tank lighting we can actually influence the ultimate color/shading of our corals. How? Let's say that we have been using a 5500K VHO fluorescent setup at 220 watts. We get that itch to spend money and help our tank and animals by installing a 250 watt metal halide with a 10,000K lamp. Aside from the aesthetics of the rippling light show these lamps provide, we have suddenly changed the frequency of light that all the animals in our system have grown accustomed to. I use the term "frequency" to describe the change in CRI or spectral output.





> Often, the corals will shrink up, close their polyps, or otherwise show their displeasure at this sudden and drastic change in their energy source. It's actually the billions of symbiotic algae that are recoiling, sending shock waves through their host and causing this rapid change in appearance. Within days, and sometimes even hours, the zooxanthellae will adapt to this new frequency and intensity by changing their absorption capabilities or their overall color. That's right, the coral's color is actually that of their hitch-hiking algae, adapting to the increases or decreases of ultraviolet and other energy-source factors.





> That's not even the same experience. Even if I do move to the waterfront (which I think most people would like) I would still have to have a fish tank inside the home. You can't observe aquatic life from the waterfront. :rolleyes2:


Then you would have to take up scuba or at least a mask, snorkel and fins. :biggrin:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I would say I am extremely frugal, except for when it comes to things that I enjoy. There are few things that I like a lot, but when it comes to those things... I tend to go all out.


Haha - then you aren't frugal.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Haha - then you aren't frugal.


Take it from me..KaeJS is normally frugal..except when it comes to water (bills) and his fishes.:biggrin:


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

So...any fans of The Wire here? I was thinking about Wee-Bay's fish: 

http://throughaquariumglass.blogspot.ca/2012/09/a-big-fish.html


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Take it from me..KaeJS is normally frugal..except when it comes to water (bills) and his fishes.:biggrin:


 ... I bet he says "it is all worth it" .. that's all it matters to him. KaeJS got his own seaworld / ripley's aquarium in his own home/basement - pretty neat I say. Sure beats those fake advertisements by thousand/million folds plastered all over the red rocket in TO! The enjoyment to him is priceless. each:


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> There is a light spectrum that is ideal for coral..simulates the light that these "animals" require.
> 
> Then you would have to take up scuba or at least a mask, snorkel and fins. :biggrin:


The light I have has all spectrums. I have pure white light, blue actinic, I've got a few green and red spectrums as well. In my picture, if you look at the sand that is up against the glass, you can see the different spectrums/colours of light. (Bottom Right of Picture)

In all seriousness, scuba diving is something I would love to try.



carverman said:


> Take it from me..KaeJS is normally frugal..except when it comes to water (bills) and his fishes.:biggrin:


Haha!

:biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I bet he says "it is all worth it" .. that's all it matters to him. KaeJS got his own seaworld / ripley's aquarium in his own home/basement - pretty neat I say. Sure beats those fake advertisements by thousand/million folds plastered all over the red rocket in TO! The enjoyment to him is priceless. each:


To each his own..I am currently lusting over Joe Satriani's Acoustic electric guitar...gotta have it..gotta have it..need it...ok, pull out the CC and lets go...I need that JS tone that only his guitar can provide.
BTW? Where is "Jim9guitars" these days? Dont see his posts anymore..Jim..talk to me...I'm dying here for some musical speak!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I bet he says "it is all worth it" .. that's all it matters to him. KaeJS got his own seaworld / ripley's aquarium in his own home/basement - pretty neat I say. Sure beats those fake advertisements by thousand/million folds plastered all over the red rocket in TO! The enjoyment to him is priceless. each:


On that note,

If you haven't been to Ripley's.... I would say to save your money.

It is fairly expensive for what you get (about $30+/adult) and they don't have any real coral or plants. Sort of defeats the purpose of it, if you ask me.
I could understand if not everything in Ripley's was real. But to have everything 100% fake? Give me a break... 

Anyway, if you've got little ones, it is an experience they will enjoy. If you're planning to just go alone or with your partner, you might as well take that $60+ and buy a share of bank stock. :encouragement:


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

My gazillion gallon 'aquarium' supplies me with free oysters several hours a day.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

All you guys arguing about the size of your aquariums :biggrin:


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

MoneyGal said:


> So...any fans of The Wire here?


Just about the best series we've seen.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

carverman said:


> Take it from me..KaeJS is normally frugal..except when it comes to water (bills) and his fishes.:biggrin:


And his cars... 

Anyway - I'm not a fan of frugality, unless it is required, so no judgement here. My point is only that you can't be part-time 'frugal'. 

That's like someone who says they are a vegetarian except when they eat meat...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> And his cars...
> 
> Anyway - I'm not a fan of frugality, unless it is required, so no judgement here. My point is only that you can't be part-time 'frugal'.
> 
> That's like someone who says they are a *vegetarian except when they eat meat*...


Does fish count as meat?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> And his cars...
> 
> Anyway - I'm not a fan of frugality, unless it is required, so no judgement here. My point is only that you can't be part-time 'frugal'.
> 
> That's like someone who says they are a vegetarian except when they eat meat...


I thought frugality was to get the most from your dollar? If you reduce your day to day expenses you can spend more on hobbies.

What if the vegetarian saved all the meat for their kids when they're gone? That would smell pretty bad.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> All you guys arguing about the size of your aquariums :biggrin:


It's a "guy thing"..M.G. If ya havta ask..then you wouldn't understand.:biggrin:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

m3s said:


> I thought frugality was to get the most from your dollar? If you reduce your day to day expenses you can spend more on hobbies.


You know what? I don't even know what 'frugal' really means. Maybe Kae is frugal - even with the salt water hobby.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> You know what? I don't even know what 'frugal' really means. Maybe Kae is frugal - even with the salt water hobby.


Not taking a stab at you, Mike, but technically...

Corals do split/propagate/grow/reproduce etc through longitudinal fission, sporing, and other means.

Some corals fetch some pretty high value in the marketplace. Selling a fragment or piece of a coral you have grown is known as "fragging" and some people make a decent living off of this. Certain corals can even fetch $200+ and it's the size of a golf ball. They even have "frag meets" where people can buy/trade frags of coral. People have legitimate businesses for this. For example: http://www.fragcave.com/

If you have the patience to do this and take it all into account - Part of the saltwater hobby "pays" for itself.

And yes, I am frugal.

I keep a log of how much I spend on a rolling 7 day chart.

Last week, I spent a total of $24. This included food and entertainment, but did not include regular bills (hydro, water, gasoline, etc.)

I think $24/week for food and entertainment is pretty frugal!
Just think of all the time you'd be watching/cleaning/maintaining the fish tank. You wouldn't even have _time_ to spend your money.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I think $24/week for food and entertainment is pretty frugal!
> Just think of all the time you'd be watching/cleaning/maintaining the fish tank. You wouldn't even have _time_ to spend your money.


Yes, that is very frugal, and I'm sure after your past experience with Taco"Hell", you are not spending any portion of your weekly allowance for food there.:highly_amused:

Tropical fish are fascinating species to watch...angel fish, clown fish, tangs..etc...and the coral, as you say are very expensive to buy, so if you can grow yer own and be able to sell some to others..you are ahead of the game.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> Yes, that is very frugal, and I'm sure after your past experience with Taco"Hell", you are not spending any portion of your weekly allowance for food there.:highly_amused:


Carver,

Do you have a 2TB Hard Drive attached to your brain where you remember useless tidbits of information that you read years ago? LOL!
I actually had Taco Hell about a month ago. It seemed to be okay. I went to a different location than the first experience from hell.

I'm glad you remember all of these things, though. It makes for a great laugh/forum atmosphere now and again.:biggrin:

My fish probably wouldn't even eat taco hell if they were starving. I wonder what this says about my learning curve..... :stupid:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Carver,
> 
> Do you have a 2TB Hard Drive attached to your brain where you remember useless tidbits of information that you read years ago? LOL!


Yes. but .mine is a "20Terabyte "old tech" version..however,it seems to be subject to "brain f*rts) these days.
I think I need to run "disk cleanup" and sweep out those cobwebs. :biggrin:



> I actually had Taco Hell about a month ago. It seemed to be okay. I went to a different location than the first experience from hell.
> 
> I'm glad you remember all of these things, though. It makes for a great laugh/forum atmosphere now and again:


Still living "dangerously" I see..:biggrin:


> My fish probably wouldn't even eat taco hell if they were starving. I wonder what this says about my learning curve..... :stupid:


Just be careful.you don't want to expire before "your little children"...


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