# aging parents, caregivers, financial responsibility?



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I have done some quick googling on the topic but didn't find much. I was just wondering if there were any quality CDN forums or discussion topics out there on the topic of adult parents and children. I have some questions and want to better understand roles and responsibilities as parents (with poor/non-existent retirement savings) enter retirement with an adult child. I am a bit hesitant to share too many personal details here, so I'm just putting this out there. Where would be the best place to have this type of honest, frank & anonymous discussion?


----------



## Guest (May 25, 2011)

*My experience ...*

Like most, I learned as I went as my mom's dementia progressed. Resources included medical (you should get power of attorney), bank (you should get power of attorney), government when I took on my mom's finances and realized she was not taking advantage of programs like OAS, and finally the management at a long term care facility. In the workplace we have an EAP program ... if you have the same, you might start there, or maybe head down to a seniors centre and ask around. Here's a "seniors canada" google http://www.seniors.gc.ca/[email protected]?lang=eng which you probably already have that seems to cover a lot of ground. Best of luck ...


----------



## stardancer (Apr 26, 2009)

Cannot stress enough that you need POA over personal care and finances, now while she is still lucid. Also have her will updated, even if she is as poor as a church mouse. I went through the hassle of getting my name on my mother's account at CRA, OAS, CCAC and everywhere else I could think of. Same with my 96 yr old aunt. It is coming in so handy; I can handle their stuff with no problems.

Sorry, that doesn't answer your question, but Rikk has given you some good leads.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I actually appreciate the responses. My original post wasn't all that well defined anyway, so the input is appreciated. Just trying to figure out who is responsible for what, what the boundaries are etc but I suspect these vary by family.


----------



## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Very Good Topic ,my friend's mom has nothing but her Government pensions and she is in a retirement home .She receives about $120 a month for spending money from her government checks and home takes the rest but my friend is not happy with the level of care her mom is getting so the family also pays a few hours a week out of pocket for a PSW to go in and help her bath ,do her hair and some massage/exercise to make her more comfortable.

I am planning for private care expenses as part of our retirement planning.


----------



## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

My mom has been writing a bit about this topic as she moves her parents into a retirement community:

http://www.boomerandecho.com/senior-care/

http://www.boomerandecho.com/settling-in-to-a-retirement-community/

I'm sure she will explore this topic a lot more down the road as well.


----------



## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

My personal observation from watching neighbours and my own Father, the ageing process seems to accelerate when people hit a certain point, that is why it is important to get things updated as soon as possible.

Dementia, Alzheimers, what ever name it has , is terrible to watch, physically same person, reality, total stranger.

Nursing Home Beds are hard to come by, you should get a name on the list as soon as possible.

Most expenses are either paid for by Government Pensions or by Family, if they have the resources.

Old people can be hard to deal with, oftentimes they play games and don't give you all the details

Many of you will also face the real possibility that your parent may have become single and entered into a new relationship in their twilight years, this creates all kinds of Familiy tensions, even more so if there are substantial monies involved.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Interesting ideas. Not sure how well the communal residence idea will work. Are the children unofficially required to pay for these sorts of things if the parents have not saved for retirement and only have a small existing home equity? Not sure the usual gov't pensions would take care of these expenses, which seem rather high. $3000 for a 2 bedroom apartment? Wow. Might as well get a normal apartment for a 3rd of the price. Are there caregivers who come to the home to provide care to seniors who live independently? What are they called?


----------



## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

@the-royal-mail
Yes, $3k/month does seem rather expensive but it seems to include most of their living expenses.

As for home care, your city should be able to provide more information, but here is a link to Health Canada's resource page - http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/home-domicile/commun/index-eng.php


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks again for the links. But is there a place/forum online where there are lots of existing threads and discussions about these sorts of things? I prefer discussing with people in the situation rather than to call a 1800 number. Like a CMF type forum where all sorts of these discussions are ongoing? We have a retirement section here but it's geared towards the financial side (of course).


----------



## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

I haven't found a forum but if you look at sites like this one - http://www.homecareontario.ca/public/about/home-care/General/index.cfm

On the left sidebar they refer to "Personal Stories" which include some unique situations that people are going through. 

Here's one about a father with Alzheimers - http://www.homecareontario.ca/public/about/home-care/Me/nursing-homes.cfm

You could always email them and have them post and answer your question.

Google "Home Care - YourCityName" and you will likely find similar websites for your area. There's a good chance that one of them has a forum.


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

TRM: I think you might find that this site is as good as any and perhaps better than most in helping you with this, but I understand the desire to keep things private. 

I don't have any experience with this with my own parents, but my husband and I are responsible for his grandmother, who we brought to live in our city (in a retirement residence) after she was unable to continue living on her own (in an isolated retirement community). 

We spent a lot of time investigating options and exploring different possibilities, including working with a gerontologist, our local Community Care and Access Centre (this may be an Ontario-specific thing), and interviewing multiple facilities. My grandmother-in-law just turned 94 and is going strong! and we are happy with the choices we have made together with her. 

For what it's worth, the reason you would not simply choose "a regular apartment" are many, from my point of view - the main one, though, being the peace of mind aspect of a retirement residence. She has a unit which is comfortable, private and appropriate, and if she is unwell she can be transported to a hospital. She can also get assistance with the activities of daily life (bathing, meal preparation) and can have all of her meals in the communal dining lounge - or she can have food delivered to her room if that's what she needs. She is checked multiple times a day and there is a "panic button" she can use if she falls or feels unwell. 

Finally, a significant chunk of her monthly rent is classified as a nursing home expense and is eligible for the medical expense tax credit - this is not available from a "regular" apartment. 

You know, TRM, there's probably a demand for a site or forum that deals with these issues. Perhaps we could start a sub-forum here, or you could start your very own forum.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I really appreciate your helpful tone, MG. I'm struggling a bit with the privacy side because I don't want to "air dirty laundry" for something I'm not really sure about and have few answers. I tend to post moreso when I'm sure about myself than not. This whole situation has brought upon a very sudden and new set of life situations I wasn't mentally prepared for and I don't even know who to ask for advice on various situations. 

Perhaps we could start with this thread, if folks would be so kind as to post their opinions and share as little or as much as they like, that would help me know where I stand in all of this. I am very interested in the viewpoints of both children and parents, perhaps where the parents haven't saved enough for retirement.

The only certainty I can offer with all of this right now, is uncertainty.


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

OK, here's a question for you: when you say this person has not saved sufficiently for retirement, do you mean they are unable to continue living in their current accommodation and need to find a new residence? 

Do you know where this person would want or need to live? 

Do you know what government support is available for what is formally known as a long-term care residence? These are the publicly-funded facilities which will take in a person with little or no assets (other than CPP/OAS/GIS - but they will take virtually all of that income) - and provide room, board and medical care in exchange. 

The upshot is that even a person with NO assets can receive a relatively dignified living situation at the end of life IF they qualify (you or I could not move there, for example - there would need to be a demonstrated requirement for public care).


----------



## cannon_fodder (Apr 3, 2009)

What about CARP (Canadian Association for Retired Persons)? Would they not be a good resource?


----------



## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

My Friend lives in the U.S , His Parents in Hamilton, He was able to get help from several agencies in Hamilton and was totally impressed with the quality of homes they went into.

The Parents do not have a lot of money and I am pretty sure that OAS/CPP and income from a very small Pension payed all.

The Parents went into seperate facilities as the mother developed Alzheimers and died within two years, Father still going strong and enjoying his new lifestyle.

I do notice one thing about these situtaions, even though there may be several Family members, one always seems to get stuck with all the responsibility?


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

In my day, in Ontario, there was assistance to pay for senior care. It required that their principal residence was sold before applying the means tests. The best place I found for a male was on Yonge Street just north of Bloor, and the monthly rate was around $1900 for one bedroom with a shared kitchenette. Meals were available in the main dining room. Nursing care was available but extra. My brother died before we could take advantage of it.


----------



## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

this is not just a financial issue but an emotional one as well.The wait list could be 5 or 6 years in some areas although they do have a priority list they bump the worst cases into. What you have to do for your parents and what you will do may be different case.I think most of us would pay extra money to give our parents a better quality of life if they had not done it on their own.
I have a disability and we pay people to be in our home to help us ,I know my husband and I would always choose to be in our home over a nursing home any day and preparing for these expenses.


----------



## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

My GM lived in her own apartment until she was 97. My mother, her DIL, took her to buy groceries, supplies etc. My sibs and I invited ourselves for meals at least once a week (that way she cooked & fed herself 5 days out of 7, she was at mom's the other 2). 

Her attitude was "it's awfully boring being old, all your friends have been dead for 20 years".

At 98 she moved across the country to live with her daughter, died 3 months later. Being where you belong (or always lived) may help.


----------



## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My grandfather lived in his home until his death at age 97 years and 5 months.My parents lived next door so they took him his breakfast and lunch every day and he came to their house for dinners.He had other kids who lived close and grand kids who always spent time with him.When we went home for his 95th birthday ,we all went in sat down and he made us tea and home made soup.He cooked sunday dinner every week until a few weeks before his death.
It is wonderful to have that sort of end to your life.


----------



## George (Apr 3, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> I have done some quick googling on the topic but didn't find much. I was just wondering if there were any quality CDN forums or discussion topics out there on the topic of adult parents and children. I have some questions and want to better understand roles and responsibilities as parents (with poor/non-existent retirement savings) enter retirement with an adult child. I am a bit hesitant to share too many personal details here, so I'm just putting this out there. Where would be the best place to have this type of honest, frank & anonymous discussion?


This forum is as good as any if you want to discuss the financial responsibility of adult children to their aging parents. Legally there isn't any formal responsibility in most provinces, and practically speaking it doesn't really exist anywhere in the country. The term for this is 'filial responsibility'. A summary of the laws is here: http://www.canadianelderlaw.ca/Family Responsibility Laws.htm but bear in mind that these laws are rarely enforced. 

Bottom line - if you have a good relationship with your aging parents and you're financially able to help them, then by all means do so. But don't do so because you think there's a legal obligation, because in most cases there isn't. In any event most provinces have enough social services to ensure even dirt-poor seniors are given the basic necessities.


----------

