# high interest savings account



## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

so I got around 14k I wanna put into a high interest savings account and I am wondering what are my options

been looking at scotia bank and their promo 

0.90% Regular Interest
Our everyday rate calculated daily, paid monthly

MomentumPLUS Premium Period Interest*

PAID EVERY
0.90% 360 days
0.85% 270 days
0.80% 180 days
0.75% 90 days

*When you don't make any withdrawals within the Premium Period you select.

Bonus Interest 
0.85% Limited time offer
Until June 29, 2018 on money you deposit from another bank or financial institution into your Account
Enroll for the campaign using your ScotiaCard®

I really like this rate but I don't like the fact that it seems less flexible than the other accounts in order to take full advantage of the promo you have to leave your money there and not touch it for minimum 30 days 

also at alterna bank
with a flat 2.05% (seems great I just heard some terrible things about them)

Manulife advantage account 
Advantage Account: A combined chequing and savings account with high interest

2.40% on all your money, until August 31, 2018* then drops to 1.25% . I like this one because its chequing and savings thought
wealth simple 1.7% fixed

I'm also looking for other safe (hopefully flexible investments where your money does not have to be locked in forever and ever ) where my principal is guaranteed that's key thanks

thought I think I'm more gravitating towards a high interest savings account as I do have the flexibility to access my money when I need it


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

I would open an account with EQ bank as the interest rate is 2.3% for the savings plus account. 

https://www.eqbank.ca/ 

https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

scorpion_ca said:


> I would open an account with EQ bank as the interest rate is 2.3% for the savings plus account.
> 
> https://www.eqbank.ca/
> 
> https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/


can't do I live in the only province that the account is not available ;(


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I have some at Outlook Financial (part of Assiniboine Credit Union) which earns 2.0% on cash, not locked in.

Simplii is another option (division of CIBC), but I haven't seen anything from them about new promotional interest rates. Does anyone know if Simplii has a high interest rate promotion? Currently they seem to pay 1.1%


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

what would be wrong with a tangerine new account though

for new accounts the orange citrus was recently paying 2.40% for 90 days although could perhaps extend the time period to 180 as a new account ...

easy online access, add to deposit/withdraw from deposit any time w no penalty, CDIC coverage, efficient online links to 3 other bank accounts


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

The Scotia momentum is a good option. 0.90% + an additional 0.75% for 90 days is pretty good for flexibility. Especially if you already bank with them, the convenience is great.

Rates are what they are - 1.65% or 2.00% - its all minimal. You just have to be glad the money is safe when you park it.


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> what would be wrong with a tangerine new account though
> 
> for new accounts the orange citrus was recently paying 2.40% for 90 days although could perhaps extend the time period to 180 as a new account ...
> 
> easy online access, add to deposit/withdraw from deposit any time w no penalty, CDIC coverage, efficient online links to 3 other bank accounts


I don't think you can just open a new account for the sake of taking advantage of the promo I think its linked to your social security I might be wrong


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

scorpion_ca said:


> I would open an account with EQ bank as the interest rate is 2.3% for the savings plus account.
> 
> https://www.eqbank.ca/
> 
> https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/


I have looked at that chart before I'm interested in altema bank. I just don't know how reliable this smaller companies are. does any one have any opinion on this smaller companies


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

Mortgage u/w said:


> The Scotia momentum is a good option. 0.90% + and additional 0.75% for 90 days is pretty good for flexibility. Especially if you already bank with them, the convenience is great.
> 
> Rates are what they are - 1.65% or 2.00% - its all minimal. You just have to be glad the money is safe will you park it.


ya seriously looking at them. for people that can park money for 1 year rate is 2.65
which is pretty darn good . and its not a gic which means you can retrieve your money at any time you will lose the promotional rate thought. I would go with 3 months


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I have some at Outlook Financial (part of Assiniboine Credit Union) which earns 2.0% on cash, not locked in.
> 
> Simplii is another option (division of CIBC), but I haven't seen anything from them about new promotional interest rates. Does anyone know if Simplii has a high interest rate promotion? Currently they seem to pay 1.1%


so far is the service good?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ebbymuch said:


> I don't think you can just open a new account for the sake of taking advantage of the promo I think its linked to your social security I might be wrong



of course anyone can open a new account to take advantage of the promo

that's exactly what their marketing department is hoping for! that newcomers will arrive, no strings attached, upon whom they will bestow 2.40% interest for at last 90 days. No strings attached.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

ebbymuch said:


> I have looked at that chart before I'm interested in altema bank. I just don't know how reliable this smaller companies are. does any one have any opinion on this smaller companies


Out of all of that list, I like Alterna Bank best for simple HISA accounts, given its long standing history. Not tied to second tier lenders like Home Capital and Equitable Group, etc. Wouldn't go over CDIC limits in any of those cases though, but would with any of the big 5.

Beyond the discussion in the highinterestsavings.ca website, ratehub seems to like Alterna too (albeit review is a little dated). https://www.ratehub.ca/blog/review-alterna-bank-high-interest-esavings-account/

Added: I personally have zero interest in playing promo games so I am highly biased against any FIs doing that.


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> of course anyone can open a new account to take advantage of the promo
> 
> that's exactly what their marketing department is hoping for! that newcomers will arrive, no strings attached, upon whom they will bestow 2.40% interest for at last 90 days. No strings attached.


in case I didn't mention it I already have tangerine


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ebbymuch said:


> in case I didn't mention it I already have tangerine



ummm ... then why not say so instead of spreading disinformation like this:




ebbymuch said:


> I don't think you can just open a new [tangerine] account for the sake of taking advantage of the promo I think its linked to your social security I might be wrong


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> ummm ... then why not say so instead of spreading disinformation like this:


I had mentioned it before . just saying


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ebbymuch said:


> I had mentioned it before . just saying



ummm where had you mentioned it before though ?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

ebbymuch said:


> humble_pie said:
> 
> 
> > what would be wrong with a tangerine new account though
> ...


For just about all the Tangerine promos (or the Simplii/PCF promos) if you dug into the details, it explicitly said new accounts were fine and for existing accounts - the promo was on anything in the account above the balance on a set date.

Where one googles Tangerine then opens the web site, the banner mid page says "Right now, when you become a new Tangerine Client by May 31, 2018 and *open your first Tangerine Savings Account, Tax-Free Savings Account or RSP Savings Account, you could earn 2.50%* interest for six months**."

It seems clear that part of the promo is to get new clients as opposed to what you were thinking.




ebbymuch said:


> ... I think its linked to your social security I might be wrong


Social Security? Don't you mean Social Insurance Number?

From what I understand of social security - that would flag one as a US person requiring the Tangerine account to be reported under FATCA.
I am not sure how many this would apply to ... it doesn't to me.

Cheers


*PS*
Since you say ...


ebbymuch said:


> in case I didn't mention it I already have tangerine


, this suggests you don't visit often as the promos including new accounts has been hard to avoid when visiting the web site.


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> For just about all the Tangerine promos (or the Simplii/PCF promos) if you dug into the details, it explicitly said new accounts were fine and for existing accounts - the promo was on anything in the account above the balance on a set date.
> 
> Where one googles Tangerine then opens the web site, the banner mid page says "Right now, when you become a new Tangerine Client by May 31, 2018 and *open your first Tangerine Savings Account, Tax-Free Savings Account or RSP Savings Account, you could earn 2.50%* interest for six months**."
> 
> ...


I never thought I could open a new account I said "I don't think you can just open a new account for the sake of taking advantage of the promo I think its linked to your social security I might be wrong" maybe I should have explicitly mentioned I already had a tangerine account, thought I had mentioned this before .and I mean SIN social insurance number . my bad


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Social Security?
> Don't you mean Social Insurance Number?
> 
> From what I understand of social security - that would flag one as a US person requiring the Tangerine account to be reported under FATCA.



do u think our ebby is secretly a US resident taxpayer?

perhaps tangerine saw this & turned him down?

it's a beautiful last day in may here but for some reason they are coming out of the woodwork on cmf forum .each:


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> do u think our ebby is secretly a US resident taxpayer?
> 
> perhaps tangerine saw this & turned him down?
> 
> it's a beautiful last day in may here but for some reason they are coming out of the woodwork on cmf forum .each:


lol. no I'm a Canadian citizen . It would be nice to have dual US nationality . but no I don't . I made a mistake. I was not born here. English is not my first language I apologize.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

ebbymuch said:


> I never thought I could open a new account I said "I don't think you can just open a new account for the sake of taking advantage of the promo I think its linked to your social security I might be wrong" maybe I should have explicitly mentioned I already had a tangerine account, thought I had mentioned this before .and I mean SIN social insurance number . my bad


Fair enough ... the wording made it sound like it was that no one could open an account to the get the rate.

That said, it is likely worth checking the fine print or asking about it as the last several offers applied to existing account holders as well as new accounts being created. The difference for the existing account holder was a high water mark (i.e. account balance as of a set date) set what part of the account received the regular interest and what part received the promo rate. For one particular promo, there was a lower rate for an existing account holder where opening a second account boosted both accounts to the top promo rate.




ebbymuch said:


> humble_pie said:
> 
> 
> > do u think our ebby is secretly a US resident taxpayer? ...
> ...


Which is what I suspected ... however, YMMV as sometimes the answer is the poster is a dual citizen.




ebbymuch said:


> ... It would be nice to have dual US nationality . but no I don't.


YMMV ... several co-workers loathe the down sides. Some are the FATCA reporting of the highest balance in the month, the US taxing the TFSA, US estate taxes as well as filing a second tax return each year.
Others figure the ability to easily work in either country makes up for some of the hassles.


Cheers


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

I use Achieva, also a Manitoba based credit union, for my savings and part of my RIF. Their current rate is 2% and I have found them good to deal with.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

ebbymuch said:


> ya seriously looking at them. for people that can park money for 1 year rate is 2.65
> which is pretty darn good . and its not a gic which means you can retrieve your money at any time you will lose the promotional rate thought. I would go with 3 months


the 1 year rate is NOT 2.65
you only get 2.65 til june 29,the end of the promotion.
as i understand you'd get .9 + an additional .9 after that, if you went with a 360 day term? (somebody else can figure out what that translates to as a 1-yr rate . )


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## ebbymuch (May 24, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> the 1 year rate is NOT 2.65
> you only get 2.65 til june 29,the end of the promotion.
> as i understand you'd get .9 + an additional .9 after that, if you went with a 360 day term? (somebody else can figure out what that translates to as a 1-yr rate . )


actually I THINK its yearly as you have to chose the premium period of 1 year to get full advantage of the promotion 
http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/0,,12175,00.html
thought reading the website it does say you get +0.85% till june 29th so you might be right


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

that's what it says 
otherwise Scotiabank is virtually offering the best 1 yr GIC rate in canada - 2.65%.....


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## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

I have accounts with Tangerine, Simply Financial and EQ Bank. I move money between the three based on who has the highest rate. Each will occasionally give offers. Tangerine is currently giving me 2.75% until next Jan. You can also call into different institutions and see if they will give you a higher rate. EQ Bank standard rate is 2.3%. Simply is currently 1.1%, but I had 3% when I signed up.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

jargey3000 said:


> that's what it says
> otherwise Scotiabank is virtually offering the best 1 yr GIC rate in canada - 2.65%.....


I may have missed something in the conversation higher up the thread but that isn't quite accurate. Both Oaken and EQ are slightly higher 1 year GIC rates.

https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/gic-rates/


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I understand using 1 year GICs as a kind of cash like replacement, but remember that you will get the best long term performance from a GIC ladder made up of only 5 year GICs. Once you have the ladder up and running, you *only* ever buy 5 year GICs. They will have the highest interest rates, for example Manulife @ 3.05% currently. This is A-rated CDIC eligible.

I didn't want to derail the conversation but don't forget about the 5 year GICs! The ladder takes some effort to get up and running, but once it is, the returns and liquidity are quite good and better than the results you'll get by hopping around between HISAs and trying to add 1 year GICs at promo rates.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

james4beach said:


> ... 5 year GICs. They will have the highest interest rates


Some financial institutions issue longer 6..10 year GICs at very slightly higher rates than their 5yr issues. However 5-years is the longest GIC that is CDIC insured, so you should only go to 5.

A ladder is definitely the way to go. I have a 10-way ladder at 6 month spacing so I have a new chunk coming up every 6 months. It is not too difficult to set one up.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> I understand using 1 year GICs as a kind of cash like replacement, but remember that you will get the best long term performance from a GIC ladder made up of only 5 year GICs. Once you have the ladder up and running, you *only* ever buy 5 year GICs. They will have the highest interest rates,
> 
> A 5 yr ladder strategy is ok in most instances but be aware of the possibility of an inverse yield curve where shorter term rates can exceed longer term rates. We may be close to this now. Also, I recently purchased a 33 mo provincially guaranteed GIC at 4% which certainly exceeded any 5 yr rate at the time. In the late 1980's daily interest saving account rates exceeded the 5 yr GIC rates. Not suggesting this is going to happen now but I remain unconvinced that a 5 yr ladder is the best way to go but to each their own and I agree that it is certainly a reasonable and relatively simple strategy.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

But those that bought long maturity GoC bonds at that time made out like bandits for the next 20 years or so. My parents had just retired from ranching and bought a bunch of 5 year GICs and some strips I believe through their advisor. Extremely bright move because those rates lasted 5 years even if that 5 year rate was lower than savings account or 1 year money at the time. Remember short term high rates are exactly that.... short term and can change tomorrow. 

I don't hesitate to have a 5-6 year ladder of GICs and bonds at the moment at all. Almost all of my fixed income is currently in such a ladder. Couldn't care less about HISA rates actually except for my 'emergency fund'.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> But those that bought long maturity GoC bonds at that time made out like bandits for the next 20 years or so. My parents had just retired from ranching and bought a bunch of 5 year GICs and some strips I believe through their advisor. Extremely bright move because those rates lasted 5 years even if that 5 year rate was lower than savings account or 1 year money at the time. Remember short term high rates are exactly that.... short term and can change tomorrow.
> 
> I don't hesitate to have a 5-6 year ladder of GICs and bonds at the moment at all. Almost all of my fixed income is currently in such a ladder. Couldn't care less about HISA rates actually except for my 'emergency fund'.


AltaRed, plse don't interpret what I said as being against GIC ladders and I tried to make that point in my post. However, what I am trying to say is that rates go up and rates go down and the shape of the curve is constantly changing and is now flattening out from 2-5 yrs. Just something to be aware of. As an aside, I had a very large severance 16 yrs ago and amortized it at a locked in rate at 6.75% for 15 yrs. Turned out to be probably my best investment ever and while I never did the calculation I expect my return was way more than double that if I had used a 5 yr ladder. 15 yrs ago rates rates were in a steep decline and I correctly assumed that this trend would continue for a lengthy period. As I feel rates are slowly increasing the GIC portion of my investments (most of which were in a 2 yr term) are maturing this year will probably be invested in spread maturities and possibly even a portion in a 5 yr ladder. Having had experience in interest rate risk management I like to think I can managed my fixed income in a manner to perhaps do better than a 100% ladder. Time will tell but again, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with a ladder and disciplined approach but I have done better.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

People can do better, but it is based on one's best guess/belief at the time on the direction of interest rates. I agree the yield curve is flattening, but I don't expect an inverse yield curve any time soon, since that is almost a guarantee of a recession and thus eventual lowering of short term interest rates yet again to counter said recession. Unless market sentiment increases 5 and 10 year bond yields soon, BoC doesn't have much room to raise overnight rates much at all.

Central banks walk a tight rope on short term rates trying to keep the yield curve going to the northeast while not letting inflation get away from them. Currently, very much on the edge of being able to do much more. 

In the US, 10 year bond yields have moved up to 3% or so which is a good thing.... should the Fed raise overnight rates a few more times this year. And yet, the 10 year 3% rate is traditionally feared as a market signal that a business cycle downturn is imminent.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yield curves are normally "normal" and flat or inverted curves are rare. Generally, we invest based on the usual scenario, the same reason we maintain steady stock exposure (because stocks go up on average). For the same reason, someone who regularly invests farther down the yield curve -- at the 5 year GIC or 10 year bond (XBB) -- will generally see a higher return, long term, than someone who invests at the very short end of the curve.

This is somewhat guaranteed by the yield curve. Fundamentally: a fixed income investor who goes further down the curve is rewarded with a higher return. That's a normal yield curve.

Over the long term, it's impossible to predict the bond market just as it's impossible to predict the stock market. On occasion, someone will make a speculation and get it right, e.g. that the short end of the curve is the best place to be right now, or that the long end of the curve is the best place to be right now.

However, on average, such speculations on the yield curve will not be successful. I'm still amazed how many people on CMF are speculating on the bond market and the yield curve shape by "hiding out in short term bonds" or cash, with some very specific bets on the future shape of the yield curve. You can get lucky once in a while, but these speculations are incredibly difficult to get right over long periods.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

P.S. even people who successfully predicted "rising interest rates" in the last couple of years, and were hiding out in short term bonds, have lost on their speculation. The short end of the curve actually went up a lot while the long end did not (curve flattened).

As a result XSB returned 0.55% per year in the last 3 years whereas XBB returned 1.65%. People would have been better off in XBB (farther down the yield curve) despite the rising rates. Notice the recent thread with people complaining about horrible performance from XSB.

And the last 5 years: XSB up 1.31%, with XBB up 2.57% -- twice the annual return!

These speculators got the "rates going up" part right, they did not accurately predict the shape of the yield curve. Why do people keep thinking they can predict the bond market and yield curve?


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

frase said:


> james4beach said:
> 
> 
> > I understand using 1 year GICs as a kind of cash like replacement, but remember that you will get the best long term performance from a GIC ladder made up of only 5 year GICs. Once you have the ladder up and running, you *only* ever buy 5 year GICs. They will have the highest interest rates,
> ...


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

In a GIC ladder if you had a maturing 5 yr GIC due now and there was a 3 yr rate (actually 33 mos) provincially guaranteed GIC rate available at 4% vs a 5 yr rate of say 3.25% would you ignore the 4% 33mo rate and take the 3.25% rate in order to maintain the ladder? Just curious.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

frase said:


> In a GIC ladder if you had a maturing 5 yr GIC due now and there was a 3 yr rate (actually 33 mos) provincially guaranteed GIC rate available at 4% vs a 5 yr rate of say 3.25% would you ignore the 4% 33mo rate and take the 3.25% rate in order to maintain the ladder? Just curious.


Yes, because when 2021 comes, you would have a disproportionate amount of GICs coming due from your GIC ladder and you have no idea then whether the 5 year rate will be 4% or 2%. The concept of a 5 year ladder is to 'even out' the roll of the dice.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Yes, because when 2021 comes, you would have a disproportionate amount of GICs coming due from your GIC ladder and you have no idea then whether the 5 year rate will be 4% or 2%. The concept of a 5 year ladder is to 'even out' the roll of the dice.


+1. 

I don't even have to think about it.

ltr


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

AltaRed said:


> Yes, because when 2021 comes, you would have a disproportionate amount of GICs coming due from your GIC ladder and you have no idea then whether the 5 year rate will be 4% or 2%.


Devil's advocate position: If you take the 4-yr GIC, for four years you'd earn an extra 75 basis points each year -- a total of 300 basis points, without counting compounding. After four years, you buy a one-year GIC (not a 5-year). If that one-year GIC pays more than 25 piddly basis points, you should come out ahead.
After that you buy your next 5-year GIC for the ladder. 
You keep your other ladder positions as-is -- unless they present a similar opportunity to favorably stitch together a 4-year GIC and a 1-year GIC at a total payout that is likely to exceed a 5-year GIC


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

fireseeker said:


> Devil's advocate position: If you take the 4-yr GIC, for four years you'd earn an extra 75 basis points each year -- a total of 300 basis points, without counting compounding. After four years, you buy a one-year GIC (not a 5-year). If that one-year GIC pays more than 25 piddly basis points, you should come out ahead.
> After that you buy your next 5-year GIC for the ladder.
> You keep your other ladder positions as-is -- unless they present a similar opportunity to favorably stitch together a 4-year GIC and a 1-year GIC at a total payout that is likely to exceed a 5-year GIC


Crazy talk................. :hororr:

ltr


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

like_to_retire said:


> Crazy talk................. :hororr:
> 
> ltr


Crazy how? Where is the logic failure?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

fireseeker said:


> Crazy how? Where is the logic failure?


you don't know what the absolute rate will be at that time. The point of the 5 year GIC ladder is to always have a weighted rolling average 5 year rate regardless of the ups and downs of interest rates.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> you don't know what the absolute rate will be at that time. The point of the 5 year GIC ladder is to always have a weighted rolling average 5 year rate regardless of the ups and downs of interest rates.


Exactly. +1

Fireseeker, it's too complicated for negligible return. The purpose of fixed income is to preserve capital. Roll over 5 year GIC's and if you want a longer maturity, buy highly rated corporate bonds at 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 years to add to your ladders. Roll them over. Don't waste time on too much detailed analysis.

All that extra time should be spent on analyzing equities, not some miniscule extra return on fixed income........... its not worth the effort.

ltr


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## JohnZ7 (Apr 1, 2018)

fire161007 said:


> I have accounts with Tangerine, Simply Financial and EQ Bank. I move money between the three based on who has the highest rate. Each will occasionally give offers. Tangerine is currently giving me 2.75% until next Jan. You can also call into different institutions and see if they will give you a higher rate. EQ Bank standard rate is 2.3%. Simply is currently 1.1%, but I had 3% when I signed up.


I just called Tangerine to request an extension to their 2.5 % interest promotion on savings accounts that ended May 31. After they asked me what I would do if they didn't extend the promotion, I indicated that I would look to alternatives - they immediately extended the promo for 180 days. The 2.5% rate matches their current rate for a one-year GIC. I like the flexibility of being able to take the money out at any time vs keeping it locked for one year in a GIC for the same rate.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> After they asked me what I would do if they didn't extend the promotion, I indicated that I would look to alternatives - they immediately extended the promo for 180 days


 Did the same, they offered 2%, so moved all money to EQ and Oaken. F$#$ Tang


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## JohnZ7 (Apr 1, 2018)

gibor365 said:


> Did the same, they offered 2%, so moved all money to EQ and Oaken. F$#$ Tang


I wish I knew what their criteria was for extending the promo. They told me that "based on my savings history", they extended my promo. Not sure exactly what they meant by that. I guess they look at history and savings balance. Do you mind indicating how much you have in savings at Tangerine as that may have been a factor? I have over 100K. I don't like to have over $100K in cash in any one institution but the 2.5 % rate is an incentive to keep it there and as they are owned by ScotiaBank, I'm not too worried.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

JohnZ7 said:


> I wish I knew what their criteria was for extending the promo. They told me that "based on my savings history", they extended my promo. Not sure exactly what they meant by that. I guess they look at history and savings balance. Do you mind indicating how much you have in savings at Tangerine as that may have been a factor? I have over 100K. I don't like to have over $100K in cash in any one institution but the 2.5 % rate is an incentive to keep it there and as they are owned by ScotiaBank, I'm not too worried.


I think it's a lottery , I manage not only my account, but also my moms, my MILs, my son's ... all have completely different history and balances, there is no algorithm.... This time I had just couple of thousands, my mom had about 70K, my MIL 180K and they offered me and my mom 2% and MIL 1.6% . So,almost all money left Tangerine


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I was scanning the savings accounts rates at a few different banks and credit unions, and was surprised to see that the the regular, non promotion rates are so low at some of the regular places, seemingly not increased after the recent interest rate hikes. In particular I can't figure out why Tangerine, Simplii, Oaken's rates are so low.

The Bank of Canada policy rate is 1.75% and the 6 month t-bill is 1.89%, so it seems quite uncompetitive that several of these are less than that! I would think that anything calling itself "high interest savings" would have to at least exceed the BoC overnight rate.

Tangerine 1.25%
Simplii 1.25%
Oaken 1.50%
EQ Bank 2.30%
Outlook Financial (CU) 2.40%
Achieva (CU) 2.40%

What do you make of this?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Institutions only offer enough to attract the deposits they want/need for their business strategy. HCG went through a 'near death' experience with a run on their HISA deposits. I suspect a 'golden' rule for them now is to NOT offer attractive HISA rates via Oaken. Instead, offer competitive GIC rates to match their loan book. Equitable Group obviously doesn't yet see the same 'run on the bank' risk. Tangerine, Simplii and some others are offering promotions instead. This captures money for a 'set' period. 

Don't underestimate any of these firms ability to match deposit flow to meet specific business needs. I'd be working these algorithms too on 15bp increments if I was the Risk Manager for any of these firms.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Fair enough, I'd do the same too. Currently I alternate my cash between Simplii & Outlook. For example, my recent Simplii promo rate ended and I don't have any "net new deposits" for their current promo, so my Simplii rate drops to 1.25%. Therefore, I transferred all the money to Outlook. I'll keep it there until a new promo exceeds Outlook's rate, then transfer all the cash back into Simplii. Rinse & repeat.

Do you think that's a good strategy? I don't want to keep opening new accounts everywhere, but this feels like a reasonable balance between effort and payoff.


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## l1quidfinance (Mar 17, 2017)

I guess I kind of do similar to the above but switch between EQ and Hubert. 2.3% and 2.5% respectively at the minute. 
Though I did just lock some money in with the 3 month promo gic at EQ for 3.3%

I find myself now where I really do not want to keep opening new accounts to chase returns.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

HISA - Tangerine at 3% for the next 6 months (existing balance + new $) and Simplii @ 3.15% until Feb 28th (new). Competition is heating up...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

That's hardly competition, Synergy. Those offers only happen under certain circumstances, like bringing in new money. I'm a Simplii customer and only get 1.25% on my balance.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

james4beach said:


> That's hardly competition, Synergy. Those offers only happen under certain circumstances, like bringing in new money. I'm a Simplii customer and only get 1.25% on my balance.


Tangerine offered me 3% on my "existing balance" and on any new deposits (up to 500k) - for the next 6 months. My current rate with tangerine is 2.5%. Retention appears to be getting a little stronger and rates a little more aggressive. I call that a little competition.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> That's hardly competition, Synergy. Those offers only happen under certain circumstances, like bringing in new money. I'm a Simplii customer and only get 1.25% on my balance.


Question is whether Simplii sticks with the "new money based on a the balance slightly before the offer starts" or whether they end up having to match Tangerine's better offer.

Tangerine's current offer they phoned me about is valid for the existing balance + new money. Their last offer stuck with the previous set date instead of a new one (i.e. usually use a balance date a week or two before the offer but instead a six months previous balance date was used for the new offer). I have to go back three offers for Tangerine to be using the similar date/new money structure as Simplii.


It may not be revolutionary movement but it is movement. If it is not competition - then is your theory that Tangerine is in a holiday mood to be reducing the restrictions to have more funds qualify?
Or are you just unhappy that Simplii's offer does not line up to be of use to you?


BTW ... if you aren't a Tangerine customer, if you don't mind opening another online bank account, you can get the 3% on all the funds you put into Tangerine.
https://www.tangerine.ca/en/landing-page/save-money/index.html


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Maybe I misunderstood. Clearly, if I open a Tangerine account right now and transfer in, I'll get the higher rate. No question there.

My concern is what happens when that promotional period ends. From the threads here, it sounds like some customers -- not all -- see the high interest rates continue. If you look at the Tangerine web site it clearly says the interest rate is 1.25%. I don't see any indication that there is an "ongoing" rate of 3% for anyone... so it sounds like they are making special arrangements on a case-by-case basis.

I don't feel like opening a new account on the faint hope that Tangerine may continue perpetually giving me a higher, *unadvertised*, rate. Which they seem to give (or not give) at their leisure.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Maybe I misunderstood. Clearly, if I open a Tangerine account right now and transfer in, I'll get the higher rate. No question there ...


For six months ... which seems a reasonable reward for effort to open the account IMO.




james4beach said:


> ... My concern is what happens when that promotional period ends ... I don't see any indication that there is an "ongoing" rate of 3% for anyone ...


Had you qualified for the Simplii promo - would you have been concerned and possibly skipped using it for the lack of an ongoing rate?
I know you'd have to setup a new account but where there is no cost for having the account, what happens after the promo expires seems easier to deal with by having a third account.




james4beach said:


> ... I don't feel like opening a new account on the faint hope that Tangerine may continue perpetually giving me a higher, *unadvertised*, rate. Which they seem to give (or not give) at their leisure.


Not sure it is a faint hope considering your comments on asset allocation suggest you've got a lot more cash than I do. With the mention of Simplii and Outlook with a "rinse and repeat", the non-locked portion seems to have been enough to make multiple accounts worth while. Maybe I misunderstood.

It sounds like you prefer to stick with whatever the Outlook / Simplii combination delivers with their rates and/or promos that may not be useful or may reset to a lower rate.


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I _did_ qualify for the Simplii promo. What I'm observing is that the promotions are limited, designed to draw in new customers (and new money) but not designed for ongoing customers. I can't really achieve Simplii's promotional rate, since I already have my cash with them.

Maybe I didn't understand what you're suggesting. It sounds like you're saying to open the Tangerine account. Right away I'd get the 3.0%. And then once that period expires, either Tangerine may extend a special rate for me, or failing that, I'd cycle the cash through Simplii / Outlook seeking the highest rate among those. Would that be a good approach?

I'm open minded, but I don't want to get drawn in with one-off promotions that don't help me in the long term.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Maybe I didn't understand what you're suggesting. It sounds like you're saying to open the Tangerine account. Right away I'd get the 3.0%. And then once that period expires, either Tangerine may extend a special rate for me, or failing that, I'd cycle the cash through Simplii / Outlook seeking the highest rate among those. Would that be a good approach?


That sounds about right to me. I'm averaging between 2.5-3% on cash held in HISA's. Takes a little bit of effort but the reward is worth it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I _did_ qualify for the Simplii promo. What I'm observing is that the promotions are limited, designed to draw in new customers (and new money) but not designed for ongoing customers. I can't really achieve Simplii's promotional rate, since I already have my cash with them ...


Bad wording on my part, it should have been more like "had you been able to use some/all of the Simplii promo". 

My point is that unless you are concerned about too many bank accounts/logins, why would you care that the rate may not be available on an ongoing basis?
Outlook looks like a fall back (which was used when the Simplii offer was not useful) so the only down side I can think of is an extra bank account. The offer expiring or when a better offer comes up will be another day.




james4beach said:


> ... It sounds like you're saying to open the Tangerine account. Right away I'd get the 3.0%. And then once that period expires, either Tangerine may extend a special rate for me, or failing that, I'd cycle the cash through Simplii / Outlook seeking the highest rate among those. Would that be a good approach?


I'm using EQ instead of Outlook with Tangerine and Simplii ... but yes. 




james4beach said:


> ... I'm open minded, but I don't want to get drawn in with one-off promotions that don't help me in the long term.


You have another FI that is paying 3% for six months or ongoing?
If not, how is turning this down helping you long term?

You've already said you moved $$ from Simplii to Outlook to increase from 1.25% so one more account that offers better for now and is known to counter Simplii's offers gives a better chance of keeping the rate up over the long term, does it not?


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks Eclectic and Synergy, that makes sense and I agree with your logic here. I recently have worked a bit at consolidating my total # of accounts, and actually closed some (which felt great) which is why I've been hesitant to add another. But this does make sense for cash, especially if rates rise... I hope they keep rising.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Synergy said:


> Tangerine offered me 3% on my "existing balance" and on any new deposits (up to 500k) - for the next 6 months. My current rate with tangerine is 2.5%. Retention appears to be getting a little stronger and rates a little more aggressive. I call that a little competition.





james4beach said:


> Maybe I misunderstood. Clearly, if I open a Tangerine account right now and transfer in, I'll get the higher rate. No question there.
> 
> My concern is what happens when that promotional period ends. From the threads here, it sounds like some customers -- not all -- see the high interest rates continue. If you look at the Tangerine web site it clearly says the interest rate is 1.25%. I don't see any indication that there is an "ongoing" rate of 3% for anyone... so it sounds like they are making special arrangements on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> I don't feel like opening a new account on the faint hope that Tangerine may continue perpetually giving me a higher, *unadvertised*, rate. Which they seem to give (or not give) at their leisure.


Uh oh. I am also on the 2.5% rate, but haven't got any 3% extension offer yet! I just logged in. If I don't get it by next Wednesday I'll start transferring it all out to BMO.

James, I have had a 100% success rate so far with with Tangerine either extending the promotional rate directly, at the end of the month, or by me withdrawing all my money back to BMO for a few days at the end of the month, and usually (always) on the 4th the new promotion for 3-6 months is released. It's a bit of a chore, but if you have a ton of cash, which you do, it's probably worth doing the maneuver.

Depending on what Tangerine does next week, I might dump 50k or so in the EQ 3-month GIC for 3.33%, since I already have an EQ account.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

peterk said:


> Uh oh. I am also on the 2.5% rate, but haven't got any 3% extension offer yet! I just logged in. If I don't get it by next Wednesday I'll start transferring it all out to BMO.


I believe the 3% rate I received from Tangerine was a retention offer. If I wouldn't have called in I don't think I would have received the offer, but I could be wrong...


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Do you transfer below $10k or more when you transfer from your one institution to another? I heard that if you transfer more than $10k, the institution needs to inform FINTRAC about this transfer.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't think twice about amounts. Nothing to hide with clean money and it is one of tens of thousands of transactions of its kind every day.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

scorpion_ca said:


> Do you transfer below $10k or more when you transfer from your one institution to another? I heard that if you transfer more than $10k, the institution needs to inform FINTRAC about this transfer.


Actually, multiple transfers that sum to > 10k are also reported to FINTRAC, and you should not deliberately divide your transfers for this reason. It could even be reported as more suspicious.

Just transfer the amounts you need. Yes it's probably reported to FINTRAC, but we're probably all on the list already.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fintrac-collecting-too-much-info-on-innocent-canadians-1.2224595

I think it's in all of our best interest if all of us just blast around large transfers. It helps establish that it's stupid to track or do anything about these, if we're all doing it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Thanks Eclectic and Synergy, that makes sense and I agree with your logic here. I recently have worked a bit at consolidating my total # of accounts, and actually closed some (which felt great) which is why I've been hesitant to add another. But this does make sense for cash, especially if rates rise... I hope they keep rising.


I don't have to worry about FBAR so it's easier for me. 

I suppose one could go with two accounts where both FIs are offering promo rates. That way one account likely will have a low balance whenever the new offer kicks in. From what I have observed, the dates don't always line up plus some have posted they need to move their money before retention offers are made available. That is why I like three accounts (two making promo/retention offers and one that has a steady higher rate).

As I say, I find it promising that for the relatively small amount I have, a retention offer that includes the existing balance has been put on the table.


Cheers


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

peterk said:


> Depending on what Tangerine does next week, I might dump 50k or so in the EQ 3-month GIC for 3.33%, since I already have an EQ account.


Thanks for sharing. I took advantage of the 3 month GIC offer. Very quick process. One thing I really like about EQ is how simple and clean their interface is...


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I've now got an (automated) Tangerine offer for 2.75% for an entire year (Nov 30 2019) if you have >$50k in the accounts. Usually the promotional rates are only for 3 or 6 months!

I'm going to buy a $50k GIC at EQ, and leave the rest in Tangerine.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

peterk said:


> I've now got an (automated) Tangerine offer for 2.75% for an entire year (Nov 30 2019) if you have >$50k in the accounts. Usually the promotional rates are only for 3 or 6 months!


Very interesting, thanks. One reason they may have extended 2.75% for a full year is that they're probably considering the BoC rate hike in a few days (I believe it's nearly certain). In other words 2.75% may soon be an uncompetitive rate, and the next promotions should be higher


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

At BMOIL, interest rates on AAT770 (their HISA) were recently increased. Now 1.6% on C$ and 1.45% on US$. Initial investment is $1000 and after that $50. 

I never paid much attention to these savings accounts in past, because rates were so low. But recently sold a boat for $25k and needed a place to dock that money for a while. After finding AAT770, decided to use that and also to buy some in each of our RRIFs and TFSAs. As income comes in, or bonds mature, it's a good place to park the funds while waiting for amount to grow to an amount that can be re-invested or until I come up with a better plan for the money. Interest is calculated daily and accrued monthly and no limit on deposits/withdrawals. No bid deal, probably only $100-$200 pa, but it's so easy to buy/sell on BMOIL.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The brokerage ISAs are especially good in registered accounts due to the constraints/limitations in transferring money around. With non-reg accounts, there is a lot more flexibility, provided one can move money into the non-reg account within T+2 period to fund purchases.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I got an email notice that Oaken/HomeTrust has upped their HISA rate to 2.3% -- I guess matching EQ's. They do not say it is promotional or temporary.


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## dadaswell (Jan 6, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Fair enough, I'd do the same too. Currently I alternate my cash between Simplii & Outlook. For example, my recent Simplii promo rate ended and I don't have any "net new deposits" for their current promo, so my Simplii rate drops to 1.25%. Therefore, I transferred all the money to Outlook. I'll keep it there until a new promo exceeds Outlook's rate, then transfer all the cash back into Simplii. Rinse & repeat.
> 
> Do you think that's a good strategy? I don't want to keep opening new accounts everywhere, but this feels like a reasonable balance between effort and payoff.



So....you all have me thinking. And at the risk of exposing myself as a true financial dummy, I am going to ask a few questions.

I would love to make a little more interest on my savings accounts. James, you mention here that you transfer between two banks to take advantage of higher interest rates. I am used to doing etransfers, but my bank limits them to $3000/day. How do you go about transferring larger sums of money (eg: $50,000) between institutions...especially when it appears they are online banks. (Yes, I m old and still identify with a bricks and mortar branch....LOL!)

Thanks!


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## dadaswell (Jan 6, 2016)

And for what it is worth, I noticed that Simplii is offering 3.15% for new accounts.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

dadaswell said:


> So....you all have me thinking. And at the risk of exposing myself as a true financial dummy, I am going to ask a few questions.
> 
> I would love to make a little more interest on my savings accounts. James, you mention here that you transfer between two banks to take advantage of higher interest rates. I am used to doing etransfers, but my bank limits them to $3000/day. How do you go about transferring larger sums of money (eg: $50,000) between institutions...especially when it appears they are online banks. (Yes, I m old and still identify with a bricks and mortar branch....LOL!)
> 
> Thanks!


By e-transfers, I assume you mean Interac e-transfers. That is not the same thing as a me2me Electronic Funds Transfer. Many online banks allow one to set up me-to-me transfers by pushing or pulling funds from your bricks and mortar bank, usually in a range up to $50k a pop. Need to move $150k? Do it in 3 separate transactions, in most cases, can do that same day. This is the way business is done now.....online. Forget about stepping in to a brick and mortar bank except to get a bank draft or similar.


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## dadaswell (Jan 6, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> By e-transfers, I assume you mean Interac e-transfers. That is not the same thing as a me2me Electronic Funds Transfer. Many online banks allow one to set up me-to-me transfers by pushing or pulling funds from your bricks and mortar bank, usually in a range up to $50k a pop. Need to move $150k? Do it in 3 separate transactions, in most cases, can do that same day. This is the way business is done now.....online. Forget about stepping in to a brick and mortar bank except to get a bank draft or similar.


Okay, that makes sense. So how does one set up the ability to do a me2me Electronic Funds Transfer when opening accounts with online banks?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

dadaswell said:


> Okay, that makes sense. So how does one set up the ability to do a me2me Electronic Funds Transfer when opening accounts with online banks?


It's often part of the online application process, via a process* called micro-deposit. Just did it this summer with EQ. I imagine most of the most prominent online banks worth putting money into have a similar process (don't know about the more pathetic small timers).

* After going through a multi-answer questionnaire of 3-5 questions to verify one's identity, plus providing the routing, transit and account number of my primary bank, EQ, within 24 hours or so, makes 2 small micro-deposits to you primary bank account. Once you see them, you go back online to EQ and answer the questions on the amount of micro-deposits. Voila..... account is active.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

dadaswell said:


> Okay, that makes sense. So how does one set up the ability to do a me2me Electronic Funds Transfer when opening accounts with online banks?


By the way, these kinds of transfers have no fee. The banks use terminology like this: externally linked bank account, EFT, Electronic Fund Transfer


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

agent99 said:


> At BMOIL, interest rates on AAT770 (their HISA) were recently increased. Now 1.6% on C$ and 1.45% on US$. Initial investment is $1000 and after that $50.
> 
> I never paid much attention to these savings accounts in past, because rates were so low. But recently sold a boat for $25k and needed a place to dock that money for a while. After finding AAT770, decided to use that and also to buy some in each of our RRIFs and TFSAs. As income comes in, or bonds mature, it's a good place to park the funds while waiting for amount to grow to an amount that can be re-invested or until I come up with a better plan for the money. Interest is calculated daily and accrued monthly and no limit on deposits/withdrawals. No bid deal, probably only $100-$200 pa, but it's so easy to buy/sell on BMOIL.


Just out of curiosity Agent99, how does one find the current interest rate on AAT770? I can find it at Investorline, but there is no rate listed. TDDI has a similar HISA fund TDB8150 and I can see the rate of TDB8150 in quotes. It's currently 1.6%


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

pwm said:


> Just out of curiosity Agent99, how does one find the current interest rate on AAT770? I can find it at Investorline, but there is no rate listed. TDDI has a similar HISA fund TDB8150 and I can see the rate of TDB8150 in quotes. It's currently 1.6%


I would hope that most brokers would have a web page like this one at TDDI that lays out their various HISA rates.

ltr


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I agree LTR, but I can't find anything like it at BMO.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Its there on BMOIL.

Start in Trading. Bonds & GICs. Right hand column. Click on bottom bar and you will have the rates for C$ and US$.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Thank you agent99. Never thought to look in "Bonds & GICs". I was looking in Mutual Funds.


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## john.cray (Dec 7, 2016)

Hello,

Does anyone here use Motive Financial's Savvy Savings Account (https://www.motivefinancial.com/Accounts/SavvySavingsAccount/) ?
It offers 2.80% interest, non-promotional + CDIC insurance.

What is your overall experience?

Cheers,
JC


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

That one looks pretty juicy for a HISA. I have been using EQ and just did another short term GIC for 3% with them. Might have to look at Motive as well.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

My assertion, posted elsewhere from time to time, is that this is an outlier rate that is sure to come down at any time. FIs are not charities, i.e. they are not going to pay any more than necessary to attract the deposits they want/need since they are in a margin business. IMNSHO, I see the rate falling to the 2.3-2.4% range in due course because that is all the highest tier is offering. https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/ and 2.4% is all Motive is offering in TFSAs.


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## john.cray (Dec 7, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> My assertion, posted elsewhere from time to time, is that this is an outlier rate that is sure to come down at any time. FIs are not charities, i.e. they are not going to pay any more than necessary to attract the deposits they want/need since they are in a margin business. IMNSHO, I see the rate falling to the 2.3-2.4% range in due course because that is all the highest tier is offering. https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/ and 2.4% is all Motive is offering in TFSAs.


So, a hidden/unadvertised promotion.

I was also wondering, in general with online banks (which seem to be subsidiaries of mainstream banks - Motive being owned by Western),
would you have any concerns putting the CDIC insured limit of $100K?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

No concerns at all, albeit with my GICs at my discount brokerage, I will pick a higher 'credit rated' institution for about the same interest rate. Example: If I could put $100k in a 5 year GIC @ 2.9% with A with a credit rating of BBB, or the same amount in B @2.87% with a credit rating of A-, I might pick the latter because of the 5 year commitment. But those are GICs, not HISAs. With a HISA, one can pull their funds on essentially a day's notice. That is what happened with the run on HISAs at Oaken Financial (Home Capital) a few years back.


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## john.cray (Dec 7, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> No concerns at all, albeit with my GICs at my discount brokerage, I will pick a higher 'credit rated' institution for about the same interest rate. Example: If I could put $100k in a 5 year GIC @ 2.9% with A with a credit rating of BBB, or the same amount in B @2.87% with a credit rating of A-, I might pick the latter because of the 5 year commitment. But those are GICs, not HISAs. With a HISA, one can pull their funds on essentially a day's notice. That is what happened with the run on HISAs at Oaken Financial (Home Capital) a few years back.


Thank you.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

john.cray said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone here use Motive Financial's Savvy Savings Account (https://www.motivefinancial.com/Accounts/SavvySavingsAccount/) ?
> It offers 2.80% interest, non-promotional + CDIC insurance.
> ...


Yes, I am happy with them so far.


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## john.cray (Dec 7, 2016)

scorpion_ca said:


> Yes, I am happy with them so far.


Thanks for sharing.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I had an old ING Direct account which I think is closed. I Wonder how I can confirm a new client number is being established. Anyone familiar with this offer? 2.5% for 5 months. Is transferring easy between Tang and TD....I assume it is.






Earn more | Tangerine







www.tangerine.ca


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Money172375 said:


> I had an old ING Direct account which I think is closed.


You should check whether that account is actually closed, since Tangerine started charging a dormancy fee in the last year or so.

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Outlook Financial (one of the MB credit unions) has upped their rate to a very competitive 1.60%

Nice to see the return of decent rates, and likely going higher. This CU rate is much better than the broker ISA at 0.75%

All those deposits now have to compete with GIC rates that are tickling 4%... how times have changed. Loading new GICs into my ladder has become fun again.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

james4beach said:


> how times have changed. Loading new GICs into my ladder has become fun again.


Are you expecting deflation from here? Because bonds thrive during deflation and gets killed during high inflation.

Every study ends to the same conclusion.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Are you expecting deflation from here? Because bonds thrive during deflation and gets killed during high inflation.
> 
> Every study ends to the same conclusion.


We don't know what the inflation picture will be, 5 years out. The studies you mention can only be done with hindsight knowledge.

But the best market-based prediction of inflation (based on "break-even" rates) puts inflation at somewhere like 3% a few years out. If the market is forecasting this well, that actually makes GICs very attractive.

As of today, we have no idea what future inflation will be, unless you trust market rates.


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## Birder (9 mo ago)

Money172375 said:


> Is transferring easy between Tang and TD....I assume it is.


Yes, it is easy but it can only be done from the Tangerine side. None of the Big 6 banks let you move funds to other FIs unless through interac e-transfer. So you can push funds from Tangerine into TD (inititiated from Tangerine) and pull funds from TD into Tanagerine (again initiated from within Tangerine). There are some daily dollar limits, all of which can be overridden by a call to their contact centre. While many folks complain about Tangerine wait times, their call centre is open 24 hours. So you can call in the evening and usually get through fairly quickly (less than 5 minutes even if the message says you may have to wait 30 minutes). I have been a long time customer and just called in yesterday to complain about my savings rate. I got 2.25% on all non-registered savings for 150 days. Good enough for me.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Birder said:


> Yes, it is easy but it can only be done from the Tangerine side. None of the Big 6 banks let you move funds to other FIs unless through interac e-transfer. So you can push funds from Tangerine into TD (inititiated from Tangerine) and pull funds from TD into Tanagerine (again initiated from within Tangerine).


Yeah and this is a great reason to have an account at Tangerine or Simplii, even if you don't keep any money there. Those online banks can be used to transfer money around between other banks.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Yeah and this is a great reason to have an account at Tangerine or Simplii, even if you don't keep any money there. Those online banks can be used to transfer money around between other banks.


There are many digital online banks that can serve as the hub of the wheel for me2me transfers. My two digital 'go to' banks at the moment are EQ Bank and LBC Digital. The former because of consistently competitive rates (and a paper free account opening process) and LBC Digital due to its paper free account opening process, at least at the time I opened them. If I can't do it 100% online without the submission of paper, I won't open such accounts.

NB: Both EQ Bank and LBC Digital use either Equifax or TransUInion to verify identities and the 'micro-deposit' methodology to open accounts and link them to external bank accounts for me2me transfers. Open Banking cannot come soon enough to supposedly eliminate ALL of this identity verification process. Alas, it is still at least a few years away.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Birder said:


> Yes, it is easy but it can only be done from the Tangerine side. None of the Big 6 banks let you move funds to other FIs unless through interac e-transfer ...


IIRC, others have posted they filled out big 6 bank form then dropped it off in the branch or mailed to an address.

The online banks have an easier setup and cover what I need so I have never bothered setting up this option.


Cheers


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

I have about 20k US inside my RRIF. Does Royal Direct have a US high interest account? What kind of interest rate can I expect on such an account? Royal Direct makes it a challenge to find this stuff.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

RBF2014 @ 3.9% per Investment Savings Account - RBC Royal Bank


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> RBF2014 @ 3.9% per Investment Savings Account - RBC Royal Bank


what about a US account?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

zinfit said:


> what about a US account?


That is a USD account. Look at the link I provided. I am sure there are other USD options such as USD MMFs if you do not like USD deposit accounts.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> That is a USD account. Look at the link I provided. I am sure there are other USD options such as USD MMFs if you do not like USD deposit accounts.


thank you I didn't follow it right. I see the various options now.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thought I would share this note on DYN6004 at iTrade, just testing it out for the first time.

It does indeed pay 4.25% and I confirmed the interest down to the penny. I only held it for 13 days, and there were no fees/penalties.

This is the F-class ISA which @AltaRed discovered and shared earlier. This is an amazing rate, higher than other bank or credit unions I've looked at.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Someone else first brought it to my attention in a different forum but at least I shared that knowledge here. 😉


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I'll probably toss this years RRSP contribution in there until I decide how to allocate it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Any risk they could discontinue the average guy's access to this F class fund?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Possible ... I seem to recall using them many years ago with a differet DYN# but they replaced it with other ones.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There have been several changes in that part of their business with Fund names and fund codes changing over time. Firstly DundeeWealth including HollisWeath which included the ISAs at that time, then selling HollisWealth and the ISAs being part of ADS Bank. Then renaming (folding?) ADS into Nova Scotia Trust Company. The changes have been hard to follow.

I don't think any of the changes were designed to be nefarious or slippery..... Only that BNS made many changes since they first bought DundeeWealth over 10 years ago.

I don't think Scotia can put that genie back into the bottle, meaning taking away trailer fee versions of the ISAs from retail investors. There is no basis for doing so from an 'order execution only' type of business.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Dundee sounds familiar ... last one I had was DYN1300.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

james4beach said:


> Any risk they could discontinue the average guy's access to this F class fund?


I tried it and they wouldn't permit it.They said it was an invalid symbol, I just clicked the symbol they listed.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

zinfit said:


> I tried it and they wouldn't permit it.They said it was an invalid symbol, I just clicked the symbol they listed.


 ... it has to be a "brokerage-approved" HISA/ISA or on their list of approved HISA/ISAs. And don't forget there is a minimum too required by your brokerage contrary to the issuer's facts sheet, even for A series.. Eg. facts sheet say "initial and subsequent purchase must be C$50". Try to buy $999 and you'll be declined.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

zinfit said:


> I tried it and they wouldn't permit it.They said it was an invalid symbol, I just clicked the symbol they listed.


Tried what with whom? DYN6004 F class can be purchased at Scotia iTrade and a few other independent discount brokerages I understand. I think you are with RBC DI and to my knowledge, they won't let you purchase anything other than RBC's own in-house ISAs (RBF series). As I understand it, they won't let you purchase Cash ETFs either.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

RBC Direct US F class.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

They are basically telling you they will not sell F class to retail customers.... reserving F class for advisor based accounts. Most of the mainstream big bank brokerages have similar restrictions.


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