# PVR purgetory - Need advice.



## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Our Rogers PVR broke down, apparently a hard-drive failure. My son, who is a computer tech, took a look at fixing it but it appears that it uses a particular hard-drive that is not easily obtainable. 

So I went looking for a new one. We have Rogers cable so first we phoned Rogers but didn't like their terms. Ditto for Bell. So I went to Future Shop to check out a new one - I figured in this electronic age there should be tons of selection available. Wrong! There is one model - the Rogers one for $500.00. 

Checking on-line there are PVRs, some for under a hundred dollars, that get pretty good ratings but they specifically state that they may not function with certain cable providers. I think it would be a pretty good bet that Rogers falls into that category. 

Call me suspicious but this smells like someone has shut down all the competition in the market.

Any advice?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Check the Wisdom forum and let us know how you make out.:biggrin:


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Out of curiosity, what model of PVR is it and what type of hard drive is needed? They shouldn't be using anything special.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

It's a Scientific Atlanta, Explorer 8300. I don't know enough about computers to know the specifics of the hard drive but apparently the ones you would typically buy at computer shops are not compatible. Perhaps the problem is that they are older make hard drives that are not mad any more. Apparently replacements hard drives are available online in the hundred dollar range. That is seeming to be the best solution so I will check with my son. 

It just kind of annoys me that I can't walk into a store and see several competitor models from Sony, Sanyo, LG, etc. the way I can with DVD players.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

I see some used 8300 PVR boxes on ebay for $40 to $80 shipped. That would certainly be a dice roll.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Used on Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-At...300hdc/dp/B000NL5QAA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

:hopelessness:


Spidey said:


> It's a Scientific Atlanta, Explorer 8300. I don't know enough about computers to know the specifics of the hard drive but apparently the ones you would typically buy at computer shops are not compatible. Perhaps the problem is that they are older make hard drives that are not mad any more. Apparently replacements hard drives are available online in the hundred dollar range. That is seeming to be the best solution so I will check with my son.
> 
> It just kind of annoys me that I can't walk into a store and see several competitor models from Sony, Sanyo, LG, etc. the way I can with DVD players.


Its just Cable special digital recorder..a couple firms make them. 

Old technology actually .only 80gb hard drive (SATA). .New PVRs are in the hundreds of gb to Terabyte storage.

If you want to replace it try Amazon you can buy a used one there..but if not, Rogers will hold you to ransom.
READ THE REVIEWS THERE FIRST ON IT. 
http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Atlanta-Cable-Explorer-8300hdc/dp/B000NL5QAA


> Quote from local cable company: "This unit is made for cable providers only and is not to be sold to consumers." I found that out the hard way when I bought it and took it into my local cable company for activation. My cable company also informed me that the serial number on it was listed in their archive of stolen boxes from TW cable.


AND THIS..


> Garbage. Avoid at all costs. If your cable provider brings SA boxes to your house refuse to accept them, and threaten to cancel unless they provide a different brand.
> 
> Box needs to be rebooted every couple days...if not more frequently (reboot requires 5-10 minutes), channels drop in and out, and it's very slow to respond to user input. Lived with two of these in the house - both behaved similarly poorly so it wasn't a fluke.


Heres another second source
http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/support/settop_8300hddvr.html


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> I see some used 8300 PVR boxes on ebay for $40 to $80 shipped. That would certainly be a dice roll.


Better check with Rogers if they will accept a box from another source,..they have to activate it via the sn provided. If Rogers didnt supply it, chances are they wont activate it.
Rogers AKA ROBBERS..they will hold you to ransom!


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

If you're adventurous, you can check out this link: http://dynasphere.ca/how-to-expand-storage-rogers-scientific-atlanta-8300-8300hd-pvr-dvr/

It goes through the option of an external add-on, but I'm not sure that that precludes having a functional internal hard-drive.



carverman said:


> Old technology actually .only 80gb hard drive (SATA). .New PVRs are in the hundreds of gb to Terabyte storage.


Actually, it's older than that. It's a IDE/PATA not SATA drive that they use, so yes, sourcing a replacement is pretty much impossible.

Quick follow-up, I was just looking at some smaller stores on-line and Factorydirect does seem to sell some:
http://www.factorydirect.ca/Categories/488/Computer_Components/Storage/3_5__Desktop_Hdd


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

carverman said:


> Better check with Rogers if they will accept a box from another source,..they have to activate it via the sn provided. If Rogers didnt supply it, chances are they wont activate it.
> Rogers AKA ROBBERS..they will hold you to ransom!


that wasn't what I was thinking - I would just steal the drive out of it


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> that wasn't what I was thinking - I would just steal the drive out of it


Well you can try it as an experiment, but you may be unsucessful even if you find another IDE (flat ribbon cable) 80GB drive. These things can be more complicated than just a A-> B same drive swap.
What kind of operating system does this PVR use?, assuming you have some kind of processor...and you would with a hard drive. So chances are the OS (operating system) is also on that
Rogers hard drive...and if the hard drive is kaput..how are you going to copy over the OS onto the new drive?... never mind formatting the drive properly which may also require some firmware download. to record video?...its not just auto-magic..some specialty programming may be necessary.

This proprietary PVR crap is designed to make it impossible for subscriber to Rogers to go out an buy their own..you have to rent it from them...as I said before..you are dealing with
the Devil here and if your really want to still have a PVR..better sign with your blood....ahahaa!...gotcha! The devil is laughing!


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/help...drive-scientific-atlantic-8300hd-pvr-1231181/

one link in that thread to place in Scarborough that does a refurb drive swap for $140, and double capacity to 320GB for $10 more (2012 prices)
Another thread reported extra drive space disappeared after a Rogers firmware update.
other threads suggest a swap to another 8300 drive from a donor should be fine, but the HD seems to be the weak link on this Rogers box.

this thread lists a place with new drives that will work for $75 (they had them in January 2014 at least), and another source for $60. And another guy offering to swap in a spare for $60 labour in. 
http://communityforums.rogers.com/t...R_settop_boxes_remotes/thread-id/15308/page/1


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> http://forums.redflagdeals.com/help...drive-scientific-atlantic-8300hd-pvr-1231181/
> 
> one link in that thread to place in Scarborough that does a refurb drive swap for $140, and double capacity to 320GB for $10 more (2012 prices)
> Another thread reported extra drive space disappeared after a Rogers firmware update.


This would be the nasty "gotcha". 

other *threads suggest a swap to another 8300 drive from a donor should be fine, but the HD seems to be the weak link on this Rogers box*. [/quote]
Maybe so, but where exactly are you going to find an IDENTICAL 8300 HD ..except from a stolen one. :biggrin:



> this thread lists a place with new drives that will work for $75 (they had them in January 2014 at least), and another source for $60. And another guy offering to *swap in a spare for $60 labour in.*
> http://communityforums.rogers.com/t...R_settop_boxes_remotes/thread-id/15308/page/1


IF it were me..I would stay away from these bargoons..if the PVR develops trouble..where are you going to go with it?
Do you have the diagnostic software to run on it to find out what is going on?

What makes you think these hardware hackers would?

Besides the IDE (the old ribbon cable HD), use an addressing jumper to identify it as primary or slave (drive),
you would need to set the jumpers. I'm sure that primary would be the default, but checking the jumpers on the old HS would tell you..but even then...what do you have
to format and partition the new 160GB IDE drive? 

It has to be formatted with something like DOS similar to PC. You have to know what the proprietary OS is on these things.


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

I believe that you could add a compatible external drive and the unit will record to the drive that has the most space available.Is this the 8300 or 8300HD model?And yes do not buy a unit that is not a Rogers unit.They will almost 100% never activate it for you.Check out 
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23773


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Fwiw ... my 8300HD disk failed, I purchased a SATA to the old PATA IDE converter, was $12 or so, and installed a SATA drive. Was just looking through my old Amazon orders ... looks like I deleted the order so can't (easily  ) say which converter it was. There are forums to find one that'll work ...

Just for fun though, maybe next rainy day I'll try disconnecting that drive, and try the external eSATA only.

Whichever way, it takes time for the box to reformat etc a new-to-it drive ... and if there's an error, try again is what worked for me.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

carverman said:


> It has to be formatted with something like DOS similar to PC. You have to know what the proprietary OS is on these things.


I imagine the firmware is on a flash ROM chip, so when you switch drives, it will "initialize" the drive and format it to the appropriate format, more than likely FAT32.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

yyz said:


> I believe that you could add a compatible external drive and the unit will record to the drive that has the most space available.Is this the 8300 or 8300HD model?And yes do not buy a unit that is not a Rogers unit.They will almost 100% never activate it for you.Check out
> http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23773


Interesting that they provided SATA cables to the external HD. 
Make sure there are no scheduled recordings at the time you're trying to connect the external HDD.



> 1. Assemble the drive in the enclosure.
> 2. Turn off the 8300.
> 3. Unplug the 8300.
> 4. Plug in the power to the enclosure.
> ...


Well at least there is a disclaimer.:biggrin:

So what's wrong with going with this option and ditching the old dinasaur?



> Rogers now offer a 1TB eHDD for $99, so unless you have a particular reason to want to build your own, I'd suggest you get one from Rogers - that way if anything goes wrong, you have one source of contact..


.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

rikk said:


> Fwiw ... my 8300HD disk failed, I purchased a SATA to the old PATA IDE converter, was $12 or so, and installed a SATA drive. Was just looking through my old Amazon orders ... looks like I deleted the order so can't (easily  ) say which converter it was. There are forums to find one that'll work ...
> 
> Just for fun though, maybe next rainy day I'll try disconnecting that drive, and try the external eSATA only.
> 
> Whichever way, it takes time for the box to reformat etc a new-to-it drive ... and if there's an error, try again is what worked for me.


I tried one of those convertors from TigerDirect.ca to try and utilize one of my old IDE drives..wouldn't work for me...think it has something to do with the data conversion clocking from parallel IDE to SATA
and vice versa...it was a cheap experiment though..less than $20.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

bgc_fan said:


> I imagine the firmware is on a flash ROM chip, so when you switch drives, it will "initialize" the drive and format it to the appropriate format, more than likely FAT32.


Makes sense I suppose, that means it (83000 would have a disk controller chip that is download programmable as well. I hate working with proprietary devices like these
PVRs because there is very little information on them.

from what I have been able to find online about the Rogers/SA8300 it appears to have a Windows Vista OS.
Now you have to deal with the "other" devil..Microsoft.

Model: Explorer 8300HD
Interface: Firewire / 1394
Operating System: Windows Vista


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Charging $500 for a PVR is criminal. They cost maybe $200 to make.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Charging $500 for a PVR is criminal. They cost maybe $200 to make.


Like most consumer electronics these days, it is probably made in China...and costs more like $50 to make in the quantities for the cable subscriber market in NA.
Not just Rogers that use these..lots of cable providers use them as well. You can rent or buy a 500 Gbyte HDPVR from Shaw for $10 a month.. or a one time price of $348.

These DVR boxes are pure profit for the cable providers and they ensure they have a captive market where you cannot buy a PVR from anybody else except theirs..and some only
allow you to rent these things at $10 to $15 a month...in a two year subscription to the cable service..thats $240 to $360 they make off you...more than enough to payback
on their initial costs.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

rikk said:


> Fwiw ... my 8300HD disk failed, I purchased a SATA to the old PATA IDE converter, was $12 or so, and installed a SATA drive. Was just looking through my old Amazon orders ... looks like I deleted the order so can't (easily  ) say which converter it was. There are forums to find one that'll work ...
> 
> Just for fun though, maybe next rainy day I'll try disconnecting that drive, and try the external eSATA only.
> 
> Whichever way, it takes time for the box to reformat etc a new-to-it drive ... and if there's an error, try again is what worked for me.


This seems to be the solution that my son is recently suggesting as well.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Charging $500 for a PVR is criminal. They cost maybe $200 to make.


They probably cost much less than $200 to make. Looking online I see brand new PVRs with good ratings selling for less than $200. The only problem is that it appears that cable companies have configured their services to only accept one product - theirs. Seems to me like something that the Competition Bureau should be looking at.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> They probably cost much less than $200 to make. Looking online I see brand new PVRs with good ratings selling for less than $200. The only problem is that it appears that cable companies have configured their services to only accept one product - theirs. Seems to me like something that the Competition Bureau should be looking at.


It's a lucrative and captive market for the cable companies..at $10 per month minimum...they want to keep the PVR rental business for themselves...but I remember the days
when Bell used to rent home phone sets.You had to get them from Bell at ridiculous monthly rental fees and couldn't buy them at the time. Times change and I expect that
this DVR monopoly that the cable companies seem to enjoy will eventually come to an end, like the modem rentals for internet...now you can buy your own modem and
not be forced to rent from "Robbers".


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Spidey said:


> They probably cost much less than $200 to make. Looking online I see brand new PVRs with good ratings selling for less than $200. The only problem is that it appears that cable companies have configured their services to only accept one product - theirs. Seems to me like something that the Competition Bureau should be looking at.


It depends on how large of a hard drive is used. Though to be honest, they really don't need to use modern 3TB drives since most people would find that much video unwieldy.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I wonder if it is actually true, though. Back in the olden days, before the cable companies had their own PVRs, we bought a PVR at Future Shop. It worked just fine, no issue. I mean, if the cable input is coming into the machine, how can Rogers stop the machine from recording the feed?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

carverman said:


> Not just Rogers that use these..lots of cable providers use them as well. You can rent or buy a 500 Gbyte HDPVR from Shaw for $10 a month.. or a one time price of $348...


Last time I phoned Shaw to verify that the PVR off craigslist was available for activation, they offered the same unit at $10/mo for 18 months. Because the 630 was offered at $150, I declined.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> I wonder if it is actually true, though. Back in the olden days, before the cable companies had their own PVRs, we bought a PVR at Future Shop. It worked just fine, no issue. I mean, if the cable input is coming into the machine, how can Rogers stop the machine from recording the feed?


I used to record movies on my VCR when I was Rogers and got the movie channel for 30 days for free at the beginning of my cable contract. 

No problem recording right off the cable...but I believe this PVR thing is set up to extract movies from the Rogers On Demand channel and that may take some programming that Rogers provides..I dunno.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Thank you all for your advice. I just thought I would share the solution in case anyone else runs into the same issue. My son ended up ordering a StarTech SATA converter which cost us $30.00. (40 Pin Male IDE to 2.5in/3.5 in SATA Converter) My son had a spare hard drive amongst all the computer parts he stores so that part didn't cost us anything. So it ended up costing us $30 rather than the $500.00 Rogers would have dinged us for.


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## mrbizi (Dec 19, 2009)

Spidey said:


> Thank you all for your advice. I just thought I would share the solution in case anyone else runs into the same issue. My son ended up ordering a StarTech SATA converter which cost us $30.00. (40 Pin Male IDE to 2.5in/3.5 in SATA Converter) My son had a spare hard drive amongst all the computer parts he stores so that part didn't cost us anything. So it ended up costing us $30 rather than the $500.00 Rogers would have dinged us for.


I was in the same boat. My 8300 pvr was starting to die - picture and audio stuttering that required almost daily rebooting.

I called Rogers and told them Bell was offering me a free pvr if I move my cable tv business to them (which was true). I asked the lady if Rogers would match bells offer. She said they would match only if I move my phone and Internet business to them. I said no unfortunately I could not do that as that would be disruptive to my business (I work from home). She put me on hold for a couple of minutes , finally said they can match and would send a technician the next day to install a next box 3.0 at $0 cost to me.

Im now the proud owner of a next box 3.0 at no cost to me. Now ymmv as I have Rogers' Ultimate tv + TMN package, so that might have helped.


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