# Investment loss problem



## gaw (May 15, 2015)

I was going through my Father's estate and found an old stock certificate in my name. The company had gone out of business in 1980 and looking at up the original purchase price (through old stock listings), I found that the loss on the shares was over $150,000. 

I believe that my father and a few of his friends had purchased these shares under my name back in 1974.

Can I claim this loss with CRA and will this this trigger some short of investigation of how a 19 year old going to college and earning under $5,000 a year could afford such a purchase. 

Should I just forget that I found this certificate or can it cause me more problems than I need...


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

Why wouldn't you?

If you have 150k in capital gains, you'd save up to 75k in taxes owed buy having this loss to use against it. I think it's worth paying an accountant a few hundred $ to get their opinion.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Xoron said:


> Why wouldn't you?...


Uh ... Tax Fraud?

Under CRA's attribution rules, any gain or loss should have been taxable to OP's father.
It wasn't OP who paid for the stock, so how can he claim a capital loss?
How do we know that OP's father didn't already claim a capital loss for it?

PS: _"looking up the original purchase price (through old stock listings)"_ Unless you have a record of the purchase transaction, I'm not sure this would be accepted as proof of what was actually paid for the stock.

PPS: If your father had that kind of money to spend on risky stocks in 1974, and thought he was clever enough to circumvent the attribution rules by putting them in your name, I would be surprised if he was not clever enough to claim a loss when the company tanked.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

^+1

The original post is off the rails (or is trolling)? In addition, what we don't know is who the executor of the father's estate was and how far back settlement of that estate occurred, and whether there was a CRA Tax Clearance Certificate issued. In any event, the executor should have uncovered that old stock certificate as part of his/her responsibilities. Also, cap gain/loss tax rules were quite different back in those days (different tax rates, no tax rates, grandfathering of lifetime exemption in 1994, etc). Way beyond my pay grade.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Uh ... Tax Fraud?


Well of course due diligence needs to be done to determine if it is a loss that was never claimed. I'm not suggesting tax fraud.

But 150k loss is a big fish to pass up, assuming you can prove it's valid and in your name. I'd spend some time getting to the bottom of it if it were me.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

It is still entirely possible that the shares were transferred to an institution at some point, and that the old share cert is completely worthless, even to claim an investment loss.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Xoron said:


> ...
> But 150k loss is a big fish to pass up, assuming you can prove it's valid and in your name. I'd spend some time getting to the bottom of it if it were me.


Uh .... I"m sorry, but OP didn't spend a dime on these stocks, so where is his capital loss coming from?

There is a remote possibility there was a capital loss to his father's estate (assuming it wasn't already claimed; or the stocks already disposed of) But does he really want to open that can of worms? Or is he talking about working on the estate taxes anyway, not his taxes?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The OP is AWOL so it is mere speculation what the original post is really about. OGG has it right though, i.e. there is nothing in it for the OP directly.


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## gaw (May 15, 2015)

AltaRed said:


> The OP is AWOL so it is mere speculation what the original post is really about. OGG has it right though, i.e. there is nothing in it for the OP directly.


"My father had never claimed the loss (which was back in 1980). The rules for gain/loss were different then and I suppose the certificate was just left on the sidelines. If it was bought in my name, can I still claim it because it could in theory, be considered a gift to a son????"


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

gaw are you sure the company went out of business & wasn't taken over by another company?


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## gaw (May 15, 2015)

lonewolf said:


> gaw are you sure the company went out of business & wasn't taken over by another company?


"Yes, 100% sure"....


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

If the stock was bought in the father's name, then I think you're out of luck. The stock SHOULD have been declared worthless during the estate settlement by the executor. The capital loss would have already been used against the deceased's final return.

If the stock was actually purchased in the name of the OP, then (assuming you have the backup paperwork) it could be used by the OP. Again, talk to an ACCOUNTANT and the CRA on what would be needed to legitimately use this Capital Loss. 

And if either think it's a bad idea, then just walk away.


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## gaw (May 15, 2015)

Xoron said:


> If the stock was bought in the father's name, then I think you're out of luck. The stock SHOULD have been declared worthless during the estate settlement by the executor. The capital loss would have already been used against the deceased's final return.
> 
> If the stock was actually purchased in the name of the OP, then (assuming you have the backup paperwork) it could be used by the OP. Again, talk to an ACCOUNTANT and the CRA on what would be needed to legitimately use this Capital Loss.
> 
> And if either think it's a bad idea, then just walk away.


"Thanks for your help, I will contact both and see what happens...

Regards....gaw"


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