# Once in a generation blizzard



## sags (May 15, 2010)

A massive winter storm is moving across the entire US and heading into parts of Canada.

The conditions are unbelievably bad. Temperatures dropping 40 degrees in an hour to - 70 with the windchill factor in some places.

We will likely get hammered here in Southwestern Ontario in the lee of the Great Lakes. I hope the hydro system holds up.

Looking at the radar map, we are about an hour away from the start of steady rain because it is mild here now.

Then the weather will change with the Arctic air coming in behind the rain. There will be freezing rain, low temperatures and blowing snow.

I wouldn't plan to be on the roads traveling for the next few days.

Stay safe folks.

Christmas weather: The winter storm blasting the US is snarling holiday travel and bringing record-breaking low temperatures | CNN


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

No extreme temperatures expected here in Montreal, but definitely a bad mix for roads...

It'll start snowing a lot, then raining on that snow as temperatures as expected to rise to 10°C then suddenly drop back to -10°C and freeze all that rain over the snow and then it'll continue snowing. So will have a nice sandwich: snow, ice, snow. With winds of 40 km/h.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Hopefully the once in a generation statement is merely media sensationalism. I am reminded of when the military was brought to Toronto to deal with a heavy snowfall a number of years ago. Winter is always a good reason to have an ample supply of items essential for survival. Especially if Power and Hydro are taken out. Hopefully, the infrastructure is better than the recent wifi scenario Ontario experienced. I chuckled when I saw how much snow was needed to shut down YVR this week. I understand that snow doesn't stick in the lower mainland but airports and cities shouldn't need to shutdown taking out transportation across the country because of a little snow. I guess it's all relative but in many parts of Canada there is that much snow most of the winter on roadways. Well wishes to all facing the upcoming storm to stay warm and safe.

Travel chaos as heavy snow grounds flights at Vancouver airport | CBC News


Malahat Highway: 37 centimetres.
Victoria International Airport: 36 centimetres.
Nanaimo: 30 centimetres.
Pitt Meadows: 28 centimetres.
Downtown Vancouver 30 centimetres.
Vancouver International Airport: 27 centimetres.
White Rock: 34 centimetres.
Abbotsford International Airport: 19 centimetres.
West Vancouver: 16 centimetres.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Hope nobody here is planning to fly in the next couple of days. Keep checking your flight statuses.

Boy oh boy. And according to the Weather Underground forecast, Vancouver Airport is about to get hit with icy precipitation throughout the whole day tomorrow. This could stop all flights.

Planes often start/end their days in Toronto or Vancouver, so, this is really bad news for all air travel.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Deleted


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## Flugzeug (Aug 15, 2018)




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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

My snowshoes are ready. Stay safe everyone.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

WestJet has cancelled all flights out of Toronto Today.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There are videos on TikTok of customers in airports screaming at airline desk staff in different airports.

One from Pearson airport they were shouting "F.... Wesjet"

I guess they want to just take off and see how it goes......give it the good old college try.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ If she is that desperate, maybe she should try the trains instead. Might take longer but they're running and she gets to see the beautiful winter scenaries.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We have a compact SUV with AWD and snow tires and had no problem getting around but there is snow ruts with ice underneath.

I watched the other cars spinning their tires trying to get up a small grade and sliding through stop signs.

I am thinking they are the people who say they don't need snow tires.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Great Lakes are having 28 foot waves and there is flooding along the coastlines.

Buffalo, NY is experiencing wind speeds of 79 miles an hour. There is flooding in downtown Boston.

This is quite the winter storm.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> The Great Lakes are having 28 foot waves and there is flooding along the coastlines.
> 
> Buffalo, NY is experiencing wind speeds of 79 miles an hour. There is flooding in downtown Boston.
> 
> This is quite the winter storm.


That's really crazy. The stretch from Hamilton to Niagara has -15, blowing snow, and wind gusts of 90 to 100 km/hr.

Here's what it looked like on the American coast of Lake Erie.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

My wife was admitted to hospital in early Dec due to Bipolar disorder, I am able to get her out for a 48 hr pass so it looks like I may be able to get her this afternoon, fingers crossed.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Let's hope so and that you and your loved one can spend a decent, and proper Christmas (if you do celebrate it) at home. And that the new year will be alot better!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ If she is that desperate, maybe she should try the trains instead. Might take longer but they're running and she gets to see the beautiful winter scenaries.


 ... update to that post - might not have been a good idea if she was travelling from Ottawa to Toronto:

‘Stressed beyond belief’: Via Rail passengers stranded on trains for over 18 hours amid winter storm

Well, the good news is at least the Via Rail passengers don't have to fight with the transportation company unlike the airlines given this bottomline statement from VR:



> _....
> “We, however, deeply apologize for this situation and the impact for our passengers and we are continuing to work with our teams and the infrastructure owner to either get those trains moving as quickly as possible or bring them to their final destination with new equipment. *Passengers who are travelling on these trains will be provided a full refund,” the company told CP24.*_


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

londoncalling said:


> I understand that snow doesn't stick in the lower mainland but airports and cities shouldn't need to shutdown taking out transportation across the country because of a little snow. I guess it's all relative but in many parts of Canada there is that much snow most of the winter on roadways.


That's a myth about snow not sticking in the Lower Mainland. This happens practically every winter and yet we always act like it's a rare event. I've lived here all my life and seen many snowfalls greater than we experienced this week. The freezing rain certainly complicates matters, but it's not all that unusual either. We just had a major freezing rain storm in 2018 in the Fraser Valley, and I can remember several others over the last 20 years.

Looks like Vancouver might finally be getting the message... 









Vancouver considers buying a second snowplow


VANCOUVER — In a shocking turn of events, Vancouver city officials have announced the city may soon be making the landmark purchase of a second snowplow. Residents of the usually mild-weathered metropolis are in disbelief, as many have never even seen a snowplow in action, let alone two. “I had...




www.thebeaverton.com





The decision to potentially double the size of the city’s fleet comes after a gruelling winter storm hit the Lower Mainland on Tuesday, causing chaos on the roads and leaving many stranded. Local meteorologists have called the storm a once-in-a-lifetime freak weather event, the likes of which has not been seen since December 2021.


“Each winter we inevitably get a dump of snow but later deny it ever happened.” said Mayor Ken Sim when asked about the delay in fleet upgrades. “Culturally, Vancouverites prefer to maintain a sort of ‘weather superiority’ over other Canadian cities. That’s why it’s so hard to get funding proposals for snow removal passed — it would leave a paper trail.”


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

nathan79 said:


> That's a myth about snow not sticking in the Lower Mainland. This happens practically every winter and yet we always act like it's a rare event. I've lived here all my life and seen many snowfalls greater than we experienced this week. The freezing rain certainly complicates matters, but it's not all that unusual either. We just had a major freezing rain storm in 2018 in the Fraser Valley, and I can remember several others over the last 20 years.
> 
> Looks like Vancouver might finally be getting the message...
> 
> ...


 ... that last paragraph (bolded) - sounds like time to raise property taxes there and some.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

nathan79 said:


> That's a myth about snow not sticking in the Lower Mainland. This happens practically every winter and yet we always act like it's a rare event. I've lived here all my life and seen many snowfalls greater than we experienced this week. The freezing rain certainly complicates matters, but it's not all that unusual either. We just had a major freezing rain storm in 2018 in the Fraser Valley, and I can remember several others over the last 20 years.
> 
> Looks like Vancouver might finally be getting the message...
> 
> ...


I understand that Victoria has only 1 snowplow. Our municipality's various depts. is in touch various other ones across the country. Quite frankly, nathan when I lived in Vancouver for 8 years, when it snowed, as a pedestrian I never quite trusted the drivers during/just after snowfall. I lived by False Creek, downtown.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

However, other parts of the country, like Calgary can't cope with sudden heavy rain ..unlike VAncouver. And not coping is related more to Alberta's hard packed soil which is unable to drain away heavy rain safely.

Although it can get iffy whenever VAncouver has 3-4 consecutive days of heavy rain.

All these things one doesn't know in terms of regional differences unless one lives in the area. For instance, a thunderstorm in VAncouver is alot rarer than ie. Toronto.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

nathan79 said:


> Local meteorologists have called the storm a once-in-a-lifetime freak weather event, the likes of which has not been seen since December 2021.


 🤣


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Above are charts listing the average snowfall and average temperature for Vancouver. I have not lived in BC but have been there enough in the winter to know that the climate changes as you move closer to the interior. I'd be curious to know how long the snow typically stays in various parts of the lower mainland in the winter months. Is it days or weeks? I have never been there when snow has been there the duration of my visit. However, IMO driving during freezing rain is much more difficult to deal with then snow. 

average temperature vancouver december - Search (bing.com)


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

londoncalling said:


> View attachment 24012
> 
> 
> View attachment 24013
> ...


In city of VAncouver, snow doesn't stick around that long. But true, the shock to the locals trying to navigate efficiently is enough. I find it really interesting for the construction project I was working for on-site in Langley, we had around 3-5 cm of snow. They stopped construction when temp. fell to -10 degrees C.

Meanwhile 2 days ago here in Calgary, across the street, the construction crews were work at -40 degrees C with wind chill.  Now, we know why there are enough people who work in the oil sands/Fort Mac north..for awhile. Sure, it's also the money.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I was surprised when sags posted this was the worst blizzard his generation has seen

But that escalated quickly


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606643450413211648

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1606650090961178626


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

jlunfirst said:


> In city of VAncouver, snow doesn't stick around that long. But true, the shock to the locals trying to navigate efficiently is enough. I find it really interesting for the construction project I was working for on-site in Langley, we had around 3-5 cm of snow. They stopped construction when temp. fell to -10 degrees C.
> 
> Meanwhile 2 days ago here in Calgary, across the street, the construction crews were work at -40 degrees C with wind chill.  Now, we know why there are enough people who work in the oil sands/Fort Mac north..for awhile. Sure, it's also the money.


I dealt with a contractor out of BC that wanted to shut down work on a Winnipeg project when the temperature dropped to around -20C. He was amazed that the crew was outraged and said what a tough crew. I laughed and said wait till the spring when there are 10 drops of rain. 

We get accustomed to our climates either by necessity, comfort or greed.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

londoncalling said:


> I dealt with a contractor out of BC that wanted to shut down work on a Winnipeg project when the temperature dropped to around -20C. He was amazed that the crew was outraged and said what a tough crew. I laughed and said wait till the spring when there are 10 drops of rain.
> 
> We get accustomed to our climates either by necessity, comfort or greed.


In my new development they were installing outdoor AC units in the storm yesterday

Crew seemed in good spirits and we joked about the general intelligence of project managers in an office somewhere (or likely wfh)

They also installed fresh lawns/driveways in November and siding in Dec


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> I was surprised when sags posted this was the worst blizzard his generation has seen
> 
> But that escalated quickly
> 
> ...


 ... it's pretty amazing how the title of a thread can be twisted but then am I surprised when it's done by a conman? NO. And look, it's sag's generation where the women there remains pregnant perpetually ...


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

londoncalling said:


> Above are charts listing the average snowfall and average temperature for Vancouver. I have not lived in BC but have been there enough in the winter to know that the climate changes as you move closer to the interior. I'd be curious to know how long the snow typically stays in various parts of the lower mainland in the winter months. Is it days or weeks? I have never been there when snow has been there the duration of my visit. However, IMO driving during freezing rain is much more difficult to deal with then snow.
> 
> average temperature vancouver december - Search (bing.com)


That is probably accurate for downtown, Richmond and the Vancouver airport. The suburbs typically get more snow and it stays on the ground for longer. You don't have to go very far east to notice the difference. North Surrey, Burnaby, and Coquitlam typically get a lot more snow than downtown. Unfortunately there aren't reliable weather records for those areas. There's records for Abbotsford Airport, but that's near the US border which typically receives less snow than the aforementioned areas (although still more than downtown).


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A friend posted this on Facebook. He lives near Buffalo and a Korean tour bus got stranded in front of his house, so he invited them inside.










In case you're wondering how this American is so friendly... well, he's Canadian.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I am in Niagara now. Today was really wild. I've never seen weather like it.


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## Saveching (Sep 18, 2021)

andrewf said:


> I am in Niagara now. Today was really wild. I've never seen weather like it.


Good thing the Lake wasn't frozen already. Would have been 70ft of snow.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Lakes have flash frozen for a ways out now, as it has turned icy cold and windy.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> The Lakes have flash frozen for a ways out now, as it has turned icy cold and windy.


Um, what?


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

Holiday Greetings to the Canadian Money Forum comunnity. Lucky for us, we live between Brockville and Cornwall and will be able to cook our store bought Goose for the annual 5:00 pm supper.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Um, what?


The lake.......it froze.

The wind died down and the surface of Lake Erie formed ice as it often does. Last January 2022 it was 100% covered in ice.

There were pictures of the huge waves one day and the calm ice cover a couple days later.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Last January 2022 it was 100% covered in ice.


According to NASA it only reached 94% in 2022.
A Lake in Winter

Further info on Erie from above,
_ As the shallowest of the Great Lakes, Erie has the highest annual maximum ice cover, regularly reaching more than 80 percent. Three times in the past half century Lake Erie reached 100 percent ice cover: 1978, 1979, and 1996._


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I have a pal that lives in a retirement trailer park in Fort Erie. Works and also lives there to looks after his elderly parents. Was caught away from home at work when worst hit. Front door is drifted to the top. Power has gone out. His moms insulin was frozen when he got in the back door.

The county road is barely plowed, but all internal roads have yet to see any maintenance. 

Sister and brother in law came down from Guelph with a pal who has a 4wd pickup and skidoo in the back to get supplies and alternate heat and a charged up phone dropped off. 

Then did a run to the local arena and Salvo's came thru, and thereafter the skidoo made deliveries to over 40 trailers that had folks stuck in them.

My pal dug out a neighbor's garage and got his big two stage snow thrower that is PTO'ed off the riding tractor into service and has been cutting a walking trail between all the places where folks stay over the winter

Local folks dropped by the truck with gas cans to fill the the snow machine and tractor. 

Yes a snow storm but we come together at times like these.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

nathan79 said:


> Local meteorologists have called the storm a once-in-a-lifetime freak weather event, the likes of which has not been seen since December 2021.


This December, we have typical winter weather, like we did last year.

Sheesh, they knew this was coming, they issued warnings for days in advance.

This whole thing was silly. It's winter, we have storms, everyone should have at least a 72hr emergency kit at home
You should always travel with a 24 hour emergency kit.

A few hours into winter weather shouldn't be cause for concern, if people weren't stupid this would be a non issue.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

This storm covered most of North America, which is not typical.

It is all related to climate change.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

MrMatt said:


> This December, we have typical winter weather, like we did last year.
> 
> Sheesh, they knew this was coming, they issued warnings for days in advance.
> 
> ...


Where are you located Matt?
I'm in Alberta. I'm not up for berating other Canadians in other regions during this crazy weather week...all across Canada in different ways. Reality is for those driving on dangerous white-out highways, if they crashed, not sure what more better except perhaps delay that trip.

I have loved ones across Metro Toronto, other parts of southern Ontario and Vancouver Island. They're all getting hit. Because I've lived in these different regions, then one knows how locals cope /not cope. We're not perfect and Mother Nature is always all powerful. Always.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

jlunfirst said:


> Where are you located Matt?
> I'm in Alberta. I'm not up for berating other Canadians in other regions during this crazy weather week...all across Canada in different ways. Reality is for those driving on dangerous white-out highways, if they crashed, not sure what more better except *perhaps delay that trip.*


Massive storm, across all of North America, with plenty of warning, and people aren't taking the basic advice.

I'm in London, I can't go anywhere because they closed all the highways, as they should have, because people are dumb.
They waited till a few hundred cars piled up, look at the video, full speed transports crashing into other vehicles.

If the weather is bad, stay home.
If you're home, with an emergency kit, you're pretty safe.


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## Saveching (Sep 18, 2021)

jlunfirst said:


> Where are you located Matt?
> I'm in Alberta. I'm not up for berating other Canadians in other regions during this crazy weather week...all across Canada in different ways. Reality is for those driving on dangerous white-out highways, if they crashed, not sure what more better except perhaps delay that trip.
> 
> I have loved ones across Metro Toronto, other parts of southern Ontario and Vancouver Island. They're all getting hit. Because I've lived in these different regions, then one knows how locals cope /not cope. We're not perfect and Mother Nature is always all powerful. Always.


I spent 15 minutes outside on friday night looking for people without shelter. Went from "Hey its not that bad" to "Hey I have ice burn" in 3 seconds just from the wind. Lots of people cannot be 'smart' if they don't have the resources or cannot mentally or physically protect themselves from quick weather changes. Weather effects everyone, it what makes us Canadian and reminds us of our humanity.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some people have to work and move around to support the rest of us during a crisis.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> This storm covered most of North America, which is not typical.


Yes it is typical.
As some meterologists said "generational storm, biggest since December 2021", ie biggest snowstorm in a year.



> It is all related to climate change.


Yes, because it's hard to blame snowstorms on global warming.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some meteorologists ?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Some meteorologists ?


Yes, the ones that actually checked when the last bad snowstorm was.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

4 dead after Christmas Eve bus rollover on B.C. Highway 97C that left dozens injured (msn.com)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

NY Governor Hochul: Storm May Go Down as One of the Worst in History - Bing video


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I found a Christmas card from the past and it reminded me of all the kids looking forward to hockey tournaments that have or will be starting tomorrow.

I hope the weather clears up for them.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> I'm in London, I can't go anywhere because they closed all the highways, as they should have, because people are dumb.
> They waited till a few hundred cars piled up, look at the video, full speed transports crashing into other vehicles.


Unbelievable isn't it. I hope there were not too many injuries or deaths.

I drove the 401 highway for many years and it's just crazy how people in the GTA drive. Often going way too fast for poor weather conditions, including ice & snow.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> The lake.......it froze.
> 
> The wind died down and the surface of Lake Erie formed ice as it often does. Last January 2022 it was 100% covered in ice.
> 
> There were pictures of the huge waves one day and the calm ice cover a couple days later.


In Niagara. No, it did not freeze. It was quite warm up until a few days ago


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> In Niagara. No, it did not freeze. It was quite warm up until a few days ago


What made things treacherous here was the 6hrs of rain, then it swung from +5 to -15C, then we got the wind. 40-60km/hr, that's dangerous.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Where I was, winds were sustained 80-100kph and gusting higher. Got perhaps a foot of snow, but hard to say because it as blowing sideways and drifting heavily. Digging out yesterday morning took a couple hours.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

seems like every couple of years or so, I hear about a "once in a lifetime" snowstorm in Buffalo NY...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yes, as the mayor said they are quite used to heavy snowfalls and storms. She also said they have never experienced anything like this event before though.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

andrewf said:


> In Niagara. No, it did not freeze. It was quite warm up until a few days ago


Niagara Falls or Niagara River ? Either way that is fast moving water that doesn't freeze unless there is an ice jam or other cause of bottling up the water flow.

The lakes quickly form a thin layer of ice on the top of them. They don't freeze all the way down to the lake bed. It is an "ice covering".

People go out and ice fish on the frozen lakes when it is thick enough to support their weight. There is still a current under the frozen ice.

It was so cold that people were throwing a bucket of warm water into the air and it was instantly crystallizing. Once the waves died down the top of the lake flash froze.

Climate change is going to cost a lot of money and I believe the carbon tax should be held in a fund to prepare and pay for it.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Let's hope the existing carbon tax "fund(?" is doing what it is supposed to do instead of being filtered away by the executives who schemed and/or managed it.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Let's hope the existing carbon tax "fund(?" is doing what it is supposed to do instead of being filtered away by the executives who schemed and/or managed it.


What exactly is it supposed to do, other than make people aware they are paying a carbon tax?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

cainvest said:


> What exactly is it supposed to do, other than make people aware they are paying a carbon tax?


 ... well, I don't suppose the "tax" collects on its own? And who came up with that "tax"?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Yes, as the mayor said they are quite used to heavy snowfalls and storms. She also said they have never experienced anything like this event before though.


Did they grow up in Florida?

Last I heard Buffalo only got 4' or so, that's a normal snowstorm for them.
They ALWAYS get massive snowfalls.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Niagara Falls or Niagara River ? Either way that is fast moving water that doesn't freeze unless there is an ice jam or other cause of bottling up the water flow.
> 
> It was so cold that people were throwing a bucket of warm water into the air and it was instantly crystallizing. Once the waves died down the top of the lake flash froze.


You're watching too many TikToks, it wasn't that cold in Niagara.



> Climate change is going to cost a lot of money and I believe the carbon tax should be held in a fund to prepare and pay for it.


tax the other guy for something I want.
Surprise surprise.

next you'll ask for tax cuts on pensions and increase on worked income taxes.

In your universe paying their "fair share" means the other guy pays taxes for your benefits.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MrMatt said:


> You're watching too many TikToks, it wasn't that cold in Niagara.


Supposedly only watches "Expert" tiktoks and twits ... where the real information is posted.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I never posted that the Niagara River froze over. I knew as a child playing hockey on frozen ponds that you never play on rivers because of the current under the thin ice.

I also posted a statement from the Governor of New York about the storm but what does she know. They are finding people frozen to death in cars today as they dig out.

NY Governor Hochul: Storm May Go Down as One of the Worst in History - Bing vid


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> Niagara Falls or Niagara River ? Either way that is fast moving water that doesn't freeze unless there is an ice jam or other cause of bottling up the water flow.
> 
> The lakes quickly form a thin layer of ice on the top of them. They don't freeze all the way down to the lake bed. It is an "ice covering".
> 
> ...


The waves did not "die down". There were 80-100 kph winds and massive swells on Lake Erie. It didn't freeze over. Stick to what you know about.

Sags, I grew up on Lake Erie. It doesn't just freeze over when the temp drops to -10c. The lake is a giant heat sink. It has been well over zero most of the fall and the water temperature is still pretty high. The lake usually only starts to freeze beyond a bit on the shoreline in late Jan and that requires extended periods of below freezing temperatures. And the lake sure as hell doesn't freeze over in 100 kph winds.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sure looks frozen to me.

I never mentioned Niagara (you did) because it is a river and they don't freeze over unless the current flow is blocked.

I said the "lake" flash froze quickly when the winds died down........as the video dated Saturday, December 24, 2022 shows pretty clearly.

Lake Erie quickly freezes over after major blizzard | Watch (msn.com)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I repeat, the lake is not frozen. That video is from near Windsor. The Lake is wide open near Niagara.

Check the data below.




Ice Data


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The original post by another CMF member was:

_Good thing the Lake wasn't frozen already. Would have been 70ft of snow._

To which I responded :

_The Lakes have flash frozen *for a ways out now*, as it has turned icy cold and windy._


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Sure looks frozen to me.
> 
> I never mentioned Niagara (you did) because it is a river and they don't freeze over unless the current flow is blocked.
> 
> ...


That video shows a small area has ice.
It does not show that the lake 'flash froze" whatever the f?? that means when you're talking about a lake..

Near shore, where the water is only 2' deep gets a skin of ice pretty quickly.

Also it wasn't even unusually cold in Niagara last week.

Having you on ignore let me forget how nonsensical your posts are.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Yes, as the mayor said they are quite used to heavy snowfalls and storms. She also said they have never experienced anything like this event before though.


Maybe she's not from the area?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> The original post by another CMF member was:
> 
> _Good thing the Lake wasn't frozen already. Would have been 70ft of snow._
> 
> ...


Again, the lake is not frozen.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yea, Niagara was a tropical paradise.

Niagara Region declares state of emergency, as blizzard conditions continue for 2nd day | CBC News


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> Yea, Niagara was a tropical paradise.
> 
> Niagara Region declares state of emergency, as blizzard conditions continue for 2nd day | CBC News


The lake being warm contributes to lake effect snow. You should have greater humility with things you do not understand.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> That video shows a small area has ice.
> It does not show that the lake 'flash froze" whatever the f?? that means when you're talking about a lake..
> 
> Near shore, where the water is only 2' deep gets a skin of ice pretty quickly.


 ... why don't you pop over there and see if that lake is frozen or not?



> Also it wasn't even unusually cold in Niagara last week.


 ... of course, it wasn't cold "last week". In fact, it wasn't even cold the week before that and the week before that and the week before that ..



> Having you on ignore let me forget how nonsensical your posts are.


 ... and so why are you responding? 

sags already gave you an "up-to-date" link like his post #71 how warm it is and possibly was in "paradise (yours)" Niagara. 

Btw, the weathernetwork is not a conspiracy theory-making channel nor one for hallucinations after the Xmas nogs - delivered of course.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Yea, Niagara was a tropical paradise.
> 
> Niagara Region declares state of emergency, as blizzard conditions continue for 2nd day | CBC News


It was that the power got knocked out, and they can't repair it for a few days.

It's not the -15C, which isn't even that cold.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beav.......I think the problem here is some CMF members believe the lakes freeze totally top to bottom and side to side, therefore any comment the "lake froze" must mean it has become one giant ice cube, like they put into their coca cola drink.........it would have to be a big drink though.

This memorable video clip from the Grumpy Old Men movie should give them a better understanding of the dynamics in play.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> It was that the power got knocked out, and they can't repair it for a few days.
> 
> It's not the -15C, which isn't even that cold.


Roads were also very bad due to high winds and drifting snow.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> Beav.......I think the problem here is some CMF members believe the lakes freeze totally top to bottom and side to side, therefore any comment the "lake froze" must mean it is one giant ice cube.
> 
> To help out their understanding, I include this memorable clip from the Grump Old Men movie.


A bit of Lake Erie freezing near Windsor is not relevant to the severity of the storm that hit Niagara.


----------



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Beav.......I think the problem here is some CMF members believe the lakes freeze totally top to bottom and side to side, therefore any comment the "lake froze" must mean it has become one giant ice cube


And some believe once they see a video of ice on a shoreline that the entire lake, side to side, must be frozen over.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Niagara Falls is still working well........but of course it isn't a lake.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> It was that the power got knocked out, and they can't repair it for a few days.
> 
> It's not the -15C, which isn't even that cold.


 ... let's see if you can survive in not that cold -15c with the power knocked out meaning you don't even have an electric heater, let alone your furnace running. 

Of course, you could layer yourself with your bearskin rug and start up a fire-place with twigs in the meantime to keep basking warm.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe Mr. Matt is thinking in Fahrenheit.

With the wind chill factor it was actually in the minus 20s.......Celsius.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Roads were also very bad due to high winds and drifting snow.


yeah, I have family who were snowed in. they had to tunnel out their front door.

When they pulled the plows that's always a problem.



MrMatt said:


> It's not the -15C, which isn't even that cold.





sags said:


> Maybe Mr. Matt is thinking in Fahrenheit.


When someone puts a C after the number, they're talking about Celsius.

Do you have to put effort in being so obviously and categorically wrong?


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> Niagara Falls is still working well........but of course it isn't a lake.


Niagara is a region. It is not the Niagara River or Niagara Falls.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> When they pulled the plows that's always a problem.


They didn't even send plows out until late in the day on Xmas Eve. The only traffic I saw were ambulances and firetrucks going by. I walked my dog and saw some firefighters trying did someone who got stuck in their x5. Lots of vehicles just abandoned on the road.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> yeah, I have family who were snowed in. they had to tunnel out their front door.
> 
> When they pulled the plows that's always a problem.
> 
> ...


Then you would have known it was cold.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Then you would have known it was cold.


Actually I knew it wasn't cold, and even indicated that it wasn't that cold by providing the numeric temperature (-15C) in Celsius.



sags said:


> Maybe Mr. Matt is thinking in Fahrenheit.


Actually, perhaps you were thinking in Fahrenheit, Because -15F is actually getting quite cold.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Some people are so brainwashed by the Global Warming BS that they actually think that winter weather in winter is unprecedented.

And some of them are so stupid that they'd willingly pay more tax in an attempt to make Canada even colder.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Right so that we are to believe how sympathetic Canadians with dual-citizenship can be for their Americans NOT!!!!

More snow in store for Buffalo after blizzard 'for the ages'



> _Carolyn Thompson, The Associated Press, Tuesday, December 27, 2022
> 
> BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — Storm-battered Buffalo braced Tuesday for fresh snow while still striving to recover from an epic blizzard that killed at least 34 people, stranded others in cars for days and shuttered the city's airport.
> 
> ...


 ...why don't you tell the citizens of Buffalo that they're delusional in digging out the storm there aka "their" storm which ain't in your backyards.

Additionally, there's still the Carribeans and South America if not Mexico for you to skip over to to toast your duffs and send your taxes to, instead of rattling here about us suckers Canadians on the changing weather, globally.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

No one said people in Buffalo were delusional for getting 4' of snow, but you accused people of saying that. Why don't you reply to what people actually said and try to have a polite debate said instead of making up lies? There's a reason that so people ignore you.

4' of snow on occasion in Buffalo is perfectly NORMAL. Who told you it wasn't?


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> Why don't you reply to what people actually said and try to have a polite debate said instead of making up lies?


Because when they depend on facts their position is untenable.
It's a pattern.



> There's a reason that so people ignore you.


Interestingly I assume this is post #88, which I didn't see because they're on ignore.



> 4' of snow on occasion in Buffalo is perfectly NORMAL. Who told you it wasn't?


Yup, Buffalo is pretty bad in the winter. 
Looks like almost half the US deaths due to this storm happened there.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> No one said people in Buffalo were delusional for getting 4' of snow, but you accused people of saying that. Why don't you reply to what people actually said and try to have a polite debate said instead of making up lies?


 ... talk about who is making up lies and spewing BS here. Only if you read post #88 which was quoted from a "news" article and no, that news ain't your version of conspiracy theories food for trolling. Just one word in that article said it all. Here's a hint: "historic".


> There's a reason that so people ignore you.


 ... LMAO ... so "many" people and I wonder who are the some "many" in that "group"? So why aren't you ignoring me as you're in the group? Can't resist to troll?



> 4' of snow on occasion in Buffalo is perfectly NORMAL. Who told you it wasn't?


 ... 4' is normal for ya alright in your snow-globe of 4" whereas in the real world 4' of snow ANYWHERE is not considered "normal". Of course, that height is "normal" for you as yet you would prefer to snow-bird in Florida at this time of the year to enjoy those two 4" flakes (if any) ... LMAO.


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

andrewf said:


> james4beach said:
> 
> 
> > That's really crazy. The stretch from Hamilton to Niagara has -15, blowing snow, and wind gusts of 90 to 100 km/hr ...
> ...


Interesting ... what I drove through at about 3pm from St. Catharines to Oakville on Friday was pretty much the same weather dad would have to drive through a couple of times in the late '80's between Windsor and London, while returning from Florida.

Fortunately, there were good tracks on the QEW (sometimes there were none on the 401) plus the vehicles around me were adjusting for the weather, spacing themselves out and slowing down further whenever a gust reduced visibility.


I will have to find the details of the storm when I was in university. The QEW from Hamilton to about St. Catherines was closed for three days afterwards to allow the plows and tow trucks to remove the stranded cars as well as clear a path.


Cheers

*PS*
More idiots were driving crazy and skipping turning on all their lights on Saturday afternoon than I saw on the road on Friday afternoon.


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

jlunfirst said:


> In city of VAncouver, snow doesn't stick around that long. But true, the shock to the locals trying to navigate efficiently is enough ...


It is also a question of knowing what to do when driving. I can remember my Vancouver classmate in Calgary thinking that flooring the accelerator to get school's car moving in a parking lot of ice was the way to go. 

The car didn't move an inch for him but did for a Saskachewan class mate who used a different tactic. 


Cheers


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The highways were a complete whiteout anywhere west of London, which made further travel impossible.

There were huge vehicle pileups on several highways.

Highways 401 to Windsor and 402 to Sarnia were closed down by the OPP.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> The highways were a complete whiteout anywhere west of London, which made further travel impossible.
> 
> There were huge vehicle pileups on several highways.
> 
> Highways 401 to Windsor and 402 to Sarnia were closed down by the OPP.


You do know that's normal winter weather in Canada?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> You do know that's normal winter weather in Canada?


Except for southern Ontario and Vancouver  

Toronto calls in the military when they get a foot of snow



Eclectic21 said:


> It is also a question of knowing what to do when driving. I can remember my Vancouver classmate in Calgary thinking that flooring the accelerator to get school's car moving in a parking lot of ice was the way to go.
> 
> The car didn't move an inch for him but did for a Saskachewan class mate who used a different tactic.


Witnessed the exact same thing in an Alaska parking lot

Driver had a big truck from Texas or something and just created ice under his tires


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

There were huge vehicle pileups on several highways.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Lake Erie wasn't frozen, only this eatery was:

New York Restaurant Fully Covered in Ice From Freezing Lake Erie Waves: LOOK

*



New York Restaurant Fully Covered in Ice From Freezing Lake Erie Waves: LOOK

Click to expand...

*


> _written by Caitlin Berard December 27, 2022 9:27 am
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ... hmmm... I wonder who's driving over there for a nice dinner? m3s or HR? Afterall, it's just a normal winter there. ... LMAO.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Lake Erie wasn't frozen, only this eatery was:
> 
> New York Restaurant Fully Covered in Ice From Freezing Lake Erie Waves: LOOK
> 
> ... hmmm... I wonder who's driving over there for a nice dinner? m3s or HR? Afterall, it's just a normal winter there. ... LMAO.


I haven't lived as long as the boomers

But in my relatively short lifetime I remember the ice storm where we didn't have power for weeks. So not exactly "generational" which implies once in a generation. Maybe the elder generation's memory is fading?

Whiteout conditions on highways is pretty common across most of Canada


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

sags said:


> The highways were a complete whiteout anywhere west of London, which made further travel impossible.
> There were huge vehicle pileups on several highways ...


Fortunately, the QEW was not a sustained whiteout and did not have a pileup when I passed through.




sags said:


> ... Highways 401 to Windsor and 402 to Sarnia were closed down by the OPP.


Around Ridgetown, near Windsor - the local radio station was thanking residents for taking in stranded travelers. Somewhat a replay on a smaller scale to the Gander taking in airline passengers in 2001.

Interesting that the 402 was apparently re-opened around 1pm on Dec 25th while the 401 at Coburg was still closed at 5pm.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

m3s said:


> Except for southern Ontario and Vancouver
> Toronto calls in the military when they get a foot of snow ...


Not really ... but I guess you prefer to exaggerate from one or two instances.





m3s said:


> ... Witnessed the exact same thing in an Alaska parking lot
> Driver had a big truck from Texas or something and just created ice under his tires


This fellow created a divot that made it harder to get the car out.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> There were huge vehicle pileups on several highways ....


Sure ... but then again, one of the large ones with fatalities was due to fog with no snow/ice involved.
BC's four fatalities is half of the what happened that day. 








Reliving the horror of the 401 fog


When 87 vehicles piled up near Windsor and burst into flames on Sept. 3, 1999, eight people died, and many remain traumatized.




www.thestar.com





Cheers


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> Lake Erie wasn't frozen, only this eatery was:
> 
> New York Restaurant Fully Covered in Ice From Freezing Lake Erie Waves: LOOK
> 
> ... hmmm... I wonder who's driving over there for a nice dinner? m3s or HR? Afterall, it's just a normal winter there. ... LMAO.


 ... there's more. An "entire town" (in Ontario by Lake Erie), ironically named Crystal Beach:

'Unbelievable': Ontario town crystallized in ice following major winter storm



> _By Alex Arsenych, CTV News Toronto Multi-Platform Writer, Tuesday, December 27, 2022
> ....
> 
> Tupling added that the ice on the backs of these homes is at least a foot thick, which has residents concerned about the damage once the ice begins to thaw and the water starts to pool.
> ...


 ... hopefully, it's a generational thing o/w time to move out.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> You do know that's normal winter weather in Canada?


sags is willfully ignorant.
They claim to live in London, and seem to have local knowledge.

But the normal white out and snowy conditions we see in South Western Ontario seem shocking.



m3s said:


> Except for southern Ontario and Vancouver
> 
> Toronto calls in the military when they get a foot of snow


Yeah, Toronto is pretty obvious to what is normal.
Calling in the military for less than a foot of snow was embarrasing, but to be fair, the whole city is full of idiots that expect the government to take care of every aspect of their lives.



Eclectic21 said:


> Fortunately, the QEW was not a sustained whiteout and did not have a pileup when I passed through.





> Interesting that the 402 was apparently re-opened around 1pm on Dec 25th while the 401 at Coburg was still closed at 5pm.


Having lived in both areas I have to say South Western Ontario weather is quite unique.
We tend to have dramatic shifts in weather, often we'll have streamers from the lake that may be stationary and sometimes they shift.

You'll have a clear sunny day, then in just a few feet you'll hit a wall of snow and zero visibility, incredibly sharp transitions.

I'd assume the discrepancy between the 402 & 401 was just the time to clear the cars.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> sags is willfully ignorant.
> They claim to live in London, and seem to have local knowledge.
> 
> But the normal white out and snowy conditions we see in South Western Ontario seem shocking.
> ...


 ... John Tory as current "mayor" of Toronto would love you for that (bolded part)! ... the previous mayor by the way who called in the army was Mel Lastman and he's still around and would too love you for that ... and don't forget Doug Ford is premier of Ontario as with Justin Trudeau being PM of Canada ... they got jobs to do and that doesn't include labelling its citizens as idiots on CMF every day. 

Man, what a sucker your employer is with dedicated employees working so hard from home ranting on CMF ... LMAO.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Yeah, Toronto is pretty obvious to what is normal.
> Calling in the military for less than a foot of snow was embarrasing, but to be fair, the whole city is full of idiots that expect the government to take care of every aspect of their lives.


That was one (conservative) furniture salesman cum mayor decades ago.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> That was one (conservative) furniture salesman cum mayor decades ago.


To appease a city full of mostly leftist idiots that expect the government to take care of everything.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The wild swings in weather are due to climate change.

This symptom has been forecast by scientists for a long time.

It is having an impact on energy markets creating wild swings in pricing. Forecasting future demand is more difficult.

We need to prepare for the damage that is coming and putting the carbon taxes into a designated mitigation fund is the best plan.

The Governor of NY said this is the worst winter storm in their history. It won't be the last one.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ And imagine if art imitates life like that movie "The Day After Tomorrow"... we will all be called Mexicans by then...LMAO.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> The wild swings in weather are due to climate change.
> 
> This symptom has been forecast by scientists for a long time.
> 
> ...


Yes, ever since the planet was created. Weather isn't more extreme but the reporting of it sure is. Those who were foolish enough to think that Trump was a Russian spy or that men can get pregnant will probably believe anything. They should be mocked, not given a platform.

Science that can't be questioned isn't science, it's propaganda.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The wild swings in weather are due to climate change.


uhh, these are normal swings in weather.



> This symptom has been forecast by scientists for a long time.


Yes, because it's been this way for all of known history.



> The Governor of NY said this is the worst winter storm in their history. It won't be the last one.


Please support this claim (you won't)

Also it's simply not true anyway.
It's arguable that it was even worse than what they got last year, let along the bigger storms in the 70's.


Really unless you can actually back up your most clearly provable claim, I'm putting you back on ignore, because you're simply spouting nonsense.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The science is well documented and readily available.

Your unfounded opinions aren't worthy of comparison to the wealth of known scientific study and research.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The science is well documented and readily available.
> 
> Your unfounded opinions aren't worthy of comparison to the wealth of known scientific study and research.


And the claim that this is their worst storm ever remains unsupported.

Trying to discuss with you is a waste of time. You are clearly not participating in good faith.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

We had cycles of weather before, but I remember when the first snow arrived and you started shoveling the driveway with ever increasing banks of snow until spring.

Our dads would build a backyard hockey rink and it would last all winter. All that has changed.

Now we have balmy weather for a week, a historic level blizzard for a week, and then back to balmy weather again. The snow is all melting away now after the blizzard.

Dads don't bother with a hockey rink anymore because it freezes and a couple days later it is gone. Even the municipal outdoor rinks with piping are on and off all winter.

We have a park with a winding stream through it where people can skate when it freezes. You have to check online now to see if it is frozen or not.

It is the erratic and intense weather events that climate change scientists point to as the effects of climate change.

The droughts around the world, fires in tinder dry forests, water reservoirs, lakes and rivers with disappearing water levels, flooding and wholesale changes in nature, all point to climate change effects on the planet. The Arctic is melting and it scientists fear what ancient pathogens may be released from the thawed tundra.

Anyone who cast doubt on the science is being willfully blind for some ulterior reasons, because it is blatantly obvious to most people that changes are happening.


----------



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MrMatt said:


> And the claim that this is their worst storm ever remains unsupported.


We just had once in a generation freezing rain mixed with snow today ... don't remember this ever happening on Dec 28 before in my lifetime ... must be climate change.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... John Tory as current "mayor" of Toronto would love you for that (bolded part)! ... the previous mayor by the way who called in the army was Mel Lastman and he's still around and would too love you for that ... and don't forget Doug Ford is premier of Ontario as with Justin Trudeau being PM of Canada ... they got jobs to do and that doesn't include labelling its citizens as idiots on CMF every day.
> 
> Man, what a sucker your employer is with dedicated employees working so hard from home ranting on CMF ... LMAO.


 ... somebody has to do it. And I don't know what's so incorrect about calling in the army to shovel the snow or even checking in on snowed-in homes as the national guards are currently doing in the Buffalo, USA.

Isn't the "duty" of a soldier as recruited by the army or the nation's armed forces to "serve the nation" if the local police force(s) is unable or in-sufficient to do that? Or is it of some just to pretend to do so, sucking up taxpayers' money for self-educations, trips, any freebies, plus collection of a pension at the end of so-called service?

National Guard checks homes in Buffalo for blizzard victims



> _Carolyn Thompson And Jennifer Peltz, The Associated Press, Wednesday, December 28, 2022
> 
> BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) - *The National Guard went door to door in parts of Buffalo on Wednesday to check on people who lost power during the area's deadliest winter storm in decades, and authorities faced the tragic possibility of finding more victims amid melting snow.*
> 
> ...


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... somebody has to do it. And I don't know what's so incorrect about calling in the army to shovel the snow or even checking in on snowed-in homes as the national guards are currently doing in the Buffalo, USA.
> 
> Isn't the "duty" of a soldier as recruited by the army or the nation's armed forces to "serve the nation" if the local police force(s) is unable or in-sufficient to do that? Or is it of some just to pretend to do so, sucking up taxpayers' money for self-educations, trips, any freebies, plus collection of a pension at the end of so-called service?
> 
> National Guard checks homes in Buffalo for blizzard victims


National Guard is a state funded asset used a lot for domestic emergencies. They are part time reserves. Canada has reservists as well but they aren't as well trained/equipped for that task and they are still federal rather than provincial

Canada has Op LENTUS contingency plan for natural disasters but it is not designed for 1 foot of snow. We don't have the assets to shovel the entire country every time there is a foot of snow - which happens which regularly everywhere except apparently southern ON and BC

It's prioritizing assets. For example the RCMP and local police ask for military air assets but that means taking them away from their primary mission - for example being on standby for SAR. 1 foot of snow is not a good reason to call the military if you look at the list of things they do






Operation LENTUS - Canada.ca


Canadian Armed Forces response to natural disasters, forest fires, floods in Canada.




www.canada.ca


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> To appease a city full of mostly leftist idiots that expect the government to take care of everything.


I'm not sure how I missed all the leftists calling for and approving that Lastman called in the military. 

Pretty much most of those I talked to at the time thought it was silly.

While the last bit wasn't a lot - I can remember being out shoveling, every hour on the hour for about twelve hours to keep up with what was falling. A big part of the problem is how small the lawns are and that it was impossible with six feet already piled up. I have seen the same problem in some of the town house complexes in Ottawa when visiting.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> sags said:
> 
> 
> > ... The Governor of NY said this is the worst winter storm in their history. It won't be the last one.
> ...


It is pretty easy to support that the Governor of NY state said this.








MrMatt said:


> ... Also it's simply not true anyway.
> It's arguable that it was even worse than what they got last year, let along the bigger storms in the 70's. ...


While I have questions .... I am not so sure. 

The similar storms I remember in the '80s did not cover such a broad area.
For instance, Windsor to London would be an issue and then it would clear up. Buffalo would have a ton, St. Catharines wold be light, Beamsville, Hamilton, Cobourg, Kingston and Ottawa would have nothing.

I also don't recall so many areas of the 401 and the 402 being closed.


Cheers


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> And the claim that this is their worst storm ever remains unsupported.
> 
> Trying to discuss with you is a waste of time. You are clearly not participating in good faith.





Eclectic21 said:


> It is pretty easy to support that the Governor of NY state said this.


sags makes false or outrageous statements quite frequently, and often refuses to substantiate them.
That's why I asked them to support their claim, which they didn't do.

They responded to my post but omitted substantiating the claim.
This is a pattern, make a claim, then refuse to back it up. When you play games like that, it's not an honest discussion.




> The similar storms I remember in the '80s did not cover such a broad area.


Buffalo isn't a broad area, and they have storms like this all the time.
The similar storms I remember from the 80's, 90's and so on did cover broad areas.



> For instance, Windsor to London would be an issue and then it would clear up. Buffalo would have a ton, St. Catharines wold be light, Beamsville, Hamilton, Cobourg, Kingston and Ottawa would have nothing.


And in this case there was barely any snow in the London area.



> I also don't recall so many areas of the 401 and the 402 being closed.


Happens quite often, however being in London I pay more attention to this.
Also they were closed because idiots drove full speed through squalls, which are a regular occurance here.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I already posted a link to the statement by the Governor in post # 63.

Your response to that post was contained in your post # 69.... "_Maybe she's not from the area ?"_

I will no longer respond to your demands for supporting evidence or links unless you pay my fee of $200 per link plus expenses.

Otherwise my response for the demands for links will be the acronym.....NLFY......no links for you.

The price is non-negotiable. I have to pay my research staff.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Today the mayor of Buffalo made a similar statement as the Governor of NY.

If you want to be provided with a link my fee is $200 or NLFY.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Hey sags, why do we have to pay you to be wrong when you spout it out daily for free?


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

For a limited time offer I will repost sags lies for only $10. That's a 95% discount over their most recent offer.

Time is limited, don't delay.


----------



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> I will no longer respond to your demands for supporting evidence or links unless you pay my fee of $200 per link plus expenses.


I think this is only valid/fair if you pay out $200 for links provided that show you were wrong. BTW, I'll keep a tab running starting with the $200 you owe me already for a correction in this thread.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

The Associated Press received $8 million in funding to cover climate change. The weather hasn't gotten worse, just the media coverage:

"In February, the Associated Press admitted that they would assign more than 24 journalists across the globe to cover "climate issues" after receiving more than $8 million over three years from various organizations."

Liberal media made slew of dubious claims about climate change, year-end report finds | Fox News


----------



## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> sags makes false or outrageous statements quite frequently, and often refuses to substantiate them.
> That's why I asked them to support their claim, which they didn't do ...


So then I guess the link in post # 63 was added after the fact?

If not, it probably would have been better to reference it.




MrMatt said:


> Buffalo isn't a broad area, and they have storms like this all the time.
> The similar storms I remember from the 80's, 90's and so on did cover broad areas.


What sort of area?
I have been looking for descriptions to confirm some of my memories but have not found anything I have liked.




MrMatt said:


> Happens quite often, however being in London I pay more attention to this.


When is the last time the 401 near Windsor, near London, the 402 and multiple sections along the 401 plus the 417 were all closed at pretty much the same time?

I am having trouble remembering so many sections being closed. 

Or are you saying all the London area idiot drivers were more spread out this year? 


Cheers


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> National Guard is a state funded asset used a lot for domestic emergencies. They are part time reserves. Canada has reservists as well but they aren't as well trained/equipped for that task and they are still federal rather than provincial
> 
> Canada has Op LENTUS contingency plan for natural disasters but it is not designed for 1 foot of snow. We don't have the assets to shovel the entire country every time there is a foot of snow - which happens which regularly everywhere except apparently southern ON and BC
> 
> ...


 ... I'm not in the military so certainly don't know the nitty gritties. 

However, what I do know is that when your boss tells you to do something that is within your capabilities (and is perfectly legal and ethical), then you do as you're told. If not or say "it ain't your job", then get the F-out.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eclectic21 said:


> When is the last time the 401 near Windsor, near London, the 402 and multiple sections along the 401 plus the 417 were all closed at pretty much the same time?
> 
> I am having trouble remembering so many sections being closed.


The 401 & 402 rarely close for weather, but they have a few times in the last few years.
Mostly they're closed not due to weather rendering them impassible, but due to large accidents.

This time they were closed due to accidents, not due to weather.

417 isn't in this area, I'm not sure why it was closed.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eclectic21 said:


> So then I guess the link in post # 63 was added after the fact?
> 
> If not, it probably would have been better to reference it.


The governor making hyperbolic *predictions *during a disaster should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also while she did make a *prediction*, it wasn't until several days later that the death toll rose above the storm in the 70's.








Death toll from blizzard up to at least 38, surpasses Blizzard of ’77


Officials confirmed at least 38 deaths related to the storm in Western New York due to the Blizzard of ’22. That number is above the death toll from the infamous Blizzard of ’77.




www.wivb.com





At the time she made the claim, it was not the worst storm ever, and even now it is clear that it wasn't the worst storm ever.
Also while it was a really bad storm, they've had worse. Worse storms in history, and eve during the Governors life.

Now devastating, which she actually did claim, can NOW, days afterwards be argued, since the death toll is higher than the previously well documented case, but that was people being stupid, they didn't take proper precautions.
Like the County Executive said, they had idiots driving around in Camaros, during the driving ban. No wonder people are dying.


I'll admit my dismissal of sags claims might be overly aggressive, but even in this case they "misquoted."


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I'm not in the military so certainly don't know the nitty gritties.
> 
> However, what I do know is that when your boss tells you to do something that is within your capabilities (and is perfectly legal and ethical), then you do as you're told. If not or say "it ain't your job", then get the F-out.


Yea we do c2 exercises just to manage these ridiculous requests. If we did everything that everyone requested it would be an absolute **** show

"Why was the SAR tactical airlift not ready to save those people from a slow and painful death?" .. "Oh because Premier Numbnuts demanded it so he could get a better look at the snow emergency in Toronto"

Provincial Premiers have no authority over Federal assets by the way. Whereas the US State Governors do control the part-time National Guard


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> *Yea we do c2 exercises just to manage these ridiculous requests. If we did everything that everyone requested it would be an absolute **** show
> 
> "Why was the SAR tactical airlift not ready to save those people from a slow and painful death?" .. "Oh because Premier Numbnuts demanded it so he could get a better look at the snow emergency in Toronto"
> 
> Provincial Premiers have no authority over Federal assets by the way. *Whereas the US State Governors do control the part-time National Guard


 ... I think you should tell your superiors the above bolded parts unless you happen to be that
superior. 

Don't instructions work down the chain of commands in your unit or do you guys do whatever you "feel" like doing for yourselves? Like either you don't have a superior or think your superior(s) are dumb-squats?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I think you should tell your superiors the above bolded parts unless you happen to be that
> superior.
> 
> Don't instructions work down the chain of commands in your unit or do you guys do whatever you "feel" like doing for yourselves? Like either you don't have a superior or think your superior(s) are dumb-squats?


Military gets random requests all the time from random government officials and have to direct them to the proper authority

Commander can always accept/deny tasks for a large variety of reasons. That's what commanders do

Deploying the military for a foot of snow in Toronto will always be an example of why not accept everybody's random requests


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Military gets random requests all the time from random government officials and have to direct them to the proper authority
> 
> Commander can always accept/deny tasks for a large variety of reasons. That's what commanders do
> 
> *Deploying the military for a foot of snow in Toronto will always be an example of why not accept everybody's random requests*


 ... well, I guess that's how highly you think of your commanders.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... well, I guess that's how highly you think of your commanders.


It's used as a lesson of what not to do

I think very highly of you though 🤡 Hope it never snows more than a foot someday

Climate change must be a nightmare for Torontonians


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> Now devastating, which she actually did claim, can NOW, days afterwards be argued, since the death toll is higher than the previously well documented case, but that was people being stupid, they didn't take proper precautions.
> Like the County Executive said, they had idiots driving around in Camaros, during the driving ban. No wonder people are dying.


Some people definitely fail at critical thinking. Why would they think that the laws of physics and the reality of snow and ice don't apply to them?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> It's used as a lesson of what not to do


 ... of course it is - and how our tax dollars are being wasted supporting so-called "troops" like you. 

Has it ever occurred to you to develop your own army in some foreign land and do whatever you want to do there, including "random" requests like so hard snow shoveling or knocking on some doors just to say "hello"? Or was disposing dirty diapers over at them LTCs during the height of Covid-pandemania giving you them nightmares already? I get you would rather sip coffee and play Call of Duty in the basement whilst getting paid too if not pumping crypto (the latest trend) on CMF. Is this how you were trained in the military?



> I think very highly of you though


 ... unfortunately I don't think the same of you given the latest revelations. In fact, the total opposite and if the totem pole can go lower, that's where you belong if not the bottom of my toilet if I was honest.


> 🤡 Hope it never snows more than a foot someday


 ... you can hope all you want, I can't control mother nature on whether it wants to snow or not.



> Climate change must be a nightmare for Torontonians


 ... yes it is, especially when it's a sudden blizzard that's come about given past winters have been very mild.

Mind you, we Torontonians pay dearly to be snow-storm ready so that we don't have to call on military whimps like you who deems "special requests of help" as being "random" to be EXTREMELY hard to comply with. And please don't get PTSD if we do ask for help as we barely got enough medical resources for ourselves.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A lot of people have to go to work to keep society safe and running, even in a blizzard.

My wife went to work at the retirement home throughout the storm. A young lady we know had to work midnight shifts at a group home for mentally challenged people.

People work in hospitals, paramedics, fire fighters, police, municipal workers, private snow removal operators, utility workers, pharmacies, LTC homes........

They all don't drive AWD SUVs or live near their workplace, as my wife does.


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