# $50 signup bonus for a ModernAdvisor managed investment account



## ModernAdvisor (May 18, 2016)

Mutual funds in Canada are the most expensive in the developed world. In fact, high mutual fund fees are forcing many Canadians to retire many years later than they would like.

At ModernAdvisor, we combine smart technology with expertise from investment professionals to build and manage globally diversified portfolios that are tailored to your individual needs. Our all-inclusive fees are a fraction of the cost of the average mutual fund in Canada and range from 0.47% to 0.77% per year for our low-cost portfolios depending on your account size and risk preferences. The all-in cost for our socially responsible portfolios is between 0.56% and 1.0%. That compares to 2.35% for the average mutual fund in Canada.

ModernAdvisor is not a discount broker. We fully manage your investments so you can focus on what makes you tick. Plus, what you see is what you pay: there are no trading or hidden fees.

Sign up for a RRSP, TFSA, RESP, RIF, or taxable account today! Make sure you use *promo code CMF2016* during signup to receive your $50 bonus*.

SIGN UP FOR MODERNADVISOR​
* Your signup bonus will be credited to your account after we receive your first deposit.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

So, how does SPAM become sticky?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Yeah, I don't have high hopes for this thread.

Ha!! Look at this portfolio they recommended based on my specs.

6% US, 22% emerging markets and 13% Canadian real estate??? 

These guys are incompetent






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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

> These guys are incompetent


And posting two spam threads would seem to confirm that. Suggests they are in dire shape when they start slumming here with spam - burnt through their $2MM so are now looking for your $50. A real class business. 
Good reason for everyone on CMF to make a point of not giving these clowns any business.


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## ModernAdvisor (May 18, 2016)

none said:


> These guys are incompetent
> View attachment 10433
> .


Why do you think we are incompetent? Is it because we have a large allocation to emerging markets? A bigger allocation to Canadian REITs than US stocks? Why is that so odd for a very aggressive portfolio?

Our portfolios are not market-weighted, but that doesn't mean we don't know what we are doing. 

We take into account the long-term expected return, volatility, and cross-correlation of asset classes and design our portfolios to maximize their risk-adjusted return. We look at factors such as valuations, dividend yields, dividend growth rates, and bond yields amongst other things to come up with our expected return projections. The fact that US stocks represent a small percentage of our portfolios right now reflects our view that US stocks are some of the most expensive in the world (and we're certainly not alone in our view). Yes, we subscribe to the bizarre idea that valuations matter in the long term.

Btw, our models are updated at least annually, so if relative valuations change, so will our portfolio allocations.

Anyway, I'm speculating as to why you call us incompetent - so do let me know, and more importantly let me know what makes you qualified to determine our competence.


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## ModernAdvisor (May 18, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> burnt through their $2MM so are now looking for your $50. A real class business.


I think you might be confused about how this works. We are offering readers $50 to sign up. We're not after their $50. 

We really believe ModernAdvisor can help many Canadians invest better and save on investment fees. Yes - we need to advertise to get the word out, what's wrong with that?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

none said:


> Yeah, I don't have high hopes for this thread.
> 
> Ha!! Look at this portfolio they recommended based on my specs.
> 
> ...





this is not an incompetent portfolio. A minority view - it's widely enough held as not to be a contrarian view - holds that US markets have already topped & are swanning down. The trend could even turn to panic plunging if trump is elected this november.

the same view sometimes tends to eye emerging markets with more favour these days. Some variations of this invest-anywhere-but-USA say invest in europe. Other variations say come back to stricken canadian resource stocks.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

ModernAdvisor said:


> Anyway, I'm speculating as to why you call us incompetent - so do let me know, and more importantly let me know what makes you qualified to determine our competence.


Simply, you never bet against the US. I'm not going to put my financial qualification but they are better than a couple engineers and web developers that looks like what makes up your team. Hilarious.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

onlyMO it seems that robo advisors are busting out of the woodwork these days. The TD, for example, is coming out with an enlarged family of its own ETFs & recently announced it will launch its own robo.

what distinguishes modern advisor? not too much imho, apart from the fact that they may lack coolth in social media. Here in cmf forum they seem to have paid for not one but 2 sponsored ads, one in each thread.

modern advisor's self-announced distinction is that they emphasize socially responsible investing. But there's nothing new about SRI. Funds like the good old Jantzi social index fund - sold eventually to black rock - & the mennonite suite of funds have been around for decades. Adapting the concepts to ETFs is not really earthshaking news.

here is modern advisor's incorporation:

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=8724555

modern's co-founder adrian brouwers was a CEO, also a sales & marketing veep, of ho-hum mutual fund company IA Clarington, itself a subsidiary of quebec insurance giant Industrielle Alliance Vie. 

in 2013 canadian couch potato stung clarington funds with bitter criticism regarding their then-misleading advertising:

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/11/11/worst-mutual-fund-ad-of-the-year/

notice how, in 2013, mr brouwers' Clarington was claiming that managed funds can perform better than indexes. Only 3 years later, his latest venture modern advisors is selling index ETFs & the shoe is now being firmly worn on the other foot.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

^ Oh snap. Yeash humble - you did a slam dunk on that one.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ModernAdvisor said:


> Our all-inclusive fees are a fraction of the cost of the average mutual fund in Canada and range from 0.47% to 0.77% per year



i do feel you should be disclosing that all your clients will have individual ETF fees in addition to your own stated fees, though. It appears that in certain cases the fee aggregate could run north of 1% per annum.





> Sign up for a RRSP, TFSA, RESP, RIF, or taxable account today!


wondering who has custody of the bedrock securities, though. They are ETFs as planned & allocated by yourselves, right? but who holds them? do your individual clients hold the selected ETFs outright as accounts with the individual ETF vending companies? or does professional custody of clients' ETF portfolios lodge with yourselves?

if the latter, is there not a marked risk to clients if your firm should happen to fail? which agency would be insuring your firm's custodial holdings for the benefit of your clients? ottomh i don't know whether a robo advisor service can belong to the CIPF ...


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Yes interesting. Co-founder was exec vp at Clarington which gained the dubious distinction of having the most misleading performance ad of underperforming funds, _"the worst one I've seen yet", and "the only firm I’ve compared in this series so far to underperform retail indexes in all six categories."_. It was dissed by Money Sense, Canadian Couch Potato, Globe and Mail and PrefBlog. 

The other co-founder found it necessary to write an article slagging BMO's new robo-advisor service, even claiming that SmartFolio is _"an obvious case of placing your own business interests ahead of the client’s and is in clear conflict with the fiduciary responsibilities"_, all while shamelessly promoting their own competing product. Classy. :rolleyes2: (Pick Me)

But I suppose this latest company might be a new leaf, an attempt to provide real value to investors and not just jump on the band wagon of robo-advisors to line their own pockets? - or not.

Like _None_, I was confused when modernadvisor told a senior, conservative investor interested in income that they should be buying over 11% of emerging market bonds and another 12% of emerging market stock with apparent fees of 0.7%. Really? :rolleyes2: I don't think so thank you.

P.S. I've asked CMF to remove the two SPAM threads that modernadvisor posted, but so far no action.
Birds of a feather, money talks...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> The other co-founder found it necessary to write an article slagging BMO's new robo-advisor service, even claiming that SmartFolio is _"an obvious case of placing your own business interests ahead of the client’s and is in clear conflict with the fiduciary responsibilities"_, all while shamelessly promoting their own competing product. Classy. :rolleyes2: (Pick Me)




onlyMO we have to be careful, you & i, because between us we could probably easily slaughter many new upstarts ... each:

re robo advisors, it's too soon to be able to discern where they will find their likely market. Obviously novice investors who feel overwhelmed by finance will find security in having an investment infrastructure provided for less than 1% of MI. In some cases for half that fee.

how these clients will fare when markets plunge in severe collapses such as 08/09 is not even remotely known. I would imagine such investors will be worse off, but there is no historic robo experience, therefore no studies to show how folks behave in such circumstances.

there is some evidence that modern advisor is trying to attract millennials. Here i feel dubious, since the millennials who come to cmf forum are often either talented & fiercely independent market players or else they damn well intend to be, thank you very much. IDK, are there other millennials who will be content to sit around in an internet robo cafe, docilely eating & drinking what the waiter tells them the kitchen has decided is in their best interest?

re the BMO slag, it wasn't too intense, imho. Navid Boostani complained that BMO is unethically plying its own ETFs while excluding other families.

however, the BMO ETF family is now huge enough that a complete spectrum of choice is available. 

i imagine the TD, which is busy expanding its own ETF family & planning to launch its own robo advisor service, will do exactly the same thing. At the end of the day, clients will be investing straight blue or else they will be investing straight green. In other words, the investment accounts of these investors will be _partis pris_, they will be hostage to one or another of the big banks.

these goings-on do put a small independent robo advisor such as modern advisor at a disadvantage.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> P.S. I've asked CMF to remove the two SPAM threads that modernadvisor posted, but so far no action.



me i think cmf forum should let all threads stand as is. Wasn't there an earlier one featuring someone from modern advisor who called herself merri or mary or both?

clearly this is an enterprising robo service that is determined to make its way into social media, except they're not quite slick enough at doing so yet :biggrin:


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> re the BMO slag, it wasn't too intense, imho. Navid Boostani complained that BMO is unethically plying its own ETFs while excluding other families.


Well, I thought it was blatantly self-serving, and either written to be purposely misleading or written in ignorance of dealer disclosure requirements. Either (or both) should give a reader cause for concern.
But I must also disclose that I have an axe to grind with self-serving promotional threads that are started only to drum up business in what I consider to be a member's forum.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> me i think cmf forum should let all threads stand as is.


I agree with the approach that says you do more harm squelching free speech and pushing it underground than by letting the leopard show its true spots for all to see. I characterize this differently though. I think a thread started for purely advertising purposes is not appropriate on what I thought was a member's forum. But I may be wrong on that?

I have to admit however that I also pull those colourful weight loss and other illegal business signs out of city boulevards and off of light poles when I see them. :upset:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Well, I thought it was blatantly self-serving, and either written to be purposely misleading or written in ignorance of dealer disclosure requirements. Either (or both) should give a reader cause for concern.
> But I must also disclose that I have an axe to grind with self-serving promotional threads that are started only to drum up business in what I consider to be a member's forum.



but onlyMO there are so many disguised promotional threads in cmf forum!

there are professionals who are fully-employed in the field of finance, who are bound by the code of conduct rules set up by the ontario securities commission to disclose their holdings & their opinions transparently, who nevertheless boost or slag one stock or another in cmf forum threads under what they apparently believe are disguised user names!

there was at least one finance professional on here slagging valeant in hysterical language when it collapsed in late 2015 , at a time when his own firm was telling the media what a piece of merde the pharma was, ie it appeared that his own firm was shorting the stock. 

at all times, this forum has an entire reserve section of couch potato ETF cheerleaders who in reality are paid professionals in the ETF planning field .each:

.


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## jdc (Feb 1, 2016)

ModernAdvisor said:


> Btw, our models are updated at least annually, so if relative valuations change, so will our portfolio allocations.


Interesting. An investor's asset allocation could change every 6 months based on your computer modelling. This is different than rebalancing, isn't it? Will a customer's permission be required for you to adjust their portfolio allocations, or are they signing up for a completely discretionary account? I don't see anything on your web site that mentions anything similar to your statement above......


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## ModernAdvisor (May 18, 2016)

none said:


> I'm not going to put my financial qualification but they are better than a couple engineers and web developers that looks like what makes up your team. Hilarious.


We have three investment professionals on the team. I am a CFA and CIM charterholder (and yes an engineer as well). There's another CFA charterholder on the team, plus a CIM charterholder who is also a PFP.


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## ModernAdvisor (May 18, 2016)

none said:


> Simply, you never bet against the US.


So you would have mindlessly put more and more money into the US market in 2000 because the market cap was getting larger and larger? We are not betting against the US, we are methodically adjusting our portfolio exposures based on relative and absolute valuations. At the moment we do believe the US market is expensive.


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## ModernAdvisor (May 18, 2016)

Humble_pie, those figures are including the ETF fees for our low-cost portfolios. Our management fees are only 0.35% to 0.5%. 
The ETF fees for our socially responsible portfolios are a bit higher. I've updated the post to reflect that.

Client assets are held in their name at Credential Securities. Credential is a CIPF member.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

ModernAdvisor said:


> So you would have mindlessly put more and more money into the US market in 2000 because the market cap was getting larger and larger? We are not betting against the US, we are methodically adjusting our portfolio exposures based on relative and absolute valuations. At the moment we do believe the US market is expensive.


Ah yes, if we all only had a magic crystal ball eh?

Anyway, this seems like one big loser game you're playing. Classic Canadian financial advisor business though eh? Charge fees for little to no benefit. Oh Canada.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

none said:


> Ah yes, if we all only had a magic crystal ball eh?


Well we're really hoping you will use our crystal ball. Better yet, be a sensitive, socially responsible type and use our enhanced crystal ball (fees are a bit higher :eek2. After all, we do have three professionals to pay.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

.
i see no purpose or merit in picking on this particular robo advisor. There are many robo advisors out there & more are crowding the field every month. As i've mentioned, soon to debut robo service in a big way will be the TD.

the threat of these new low-cost robo services is to established financial planning firms that have been creating individualized financial plans utilizing ETFs for reasonably high net worth investors for significant fees. Firms such as PWL. One hears that these firms typically charge $3500-5000 for a financial plan for a single person to a couple with a corporation.

ordinary citizens - no professional corporation, no commercial real estate - could always plan their own financial setup, with no advisor necessary. In his day as founder of/active participant in cmf forum, Canadian Capitalist used to publish, every quarter, explicit guidelines to 2 basic couch potato model portfolios which he had created. His models were easy to understand, very comprehensive & required only a few hours' work & a few trades per annum. For quality & for savings on management costs, CC's models cannot be beat, even today.

however, there are always investors with relatively simple profiles who, for one reason or another, do not wish to undertake even an easy, basic Canadian Capitalist type couch potato portfolio.

for these investors, a robo advisor can fill the bill, at a significantly lower cost than the fancy brand-name financial planning establishments mentioned above.

i have noticed that Navid Boostani, the CEO of modernAdvisor, has outstanding qualifications in finance. He's earned a CFA, a CIM & a master's degree in engineering from a top canadian school. Most big bank-owned securities & underwriting divisions would welcome boostani with open arms; however, it appears he's chosen a pioneering startup that pushes the envelope.

i might have more to say later. Poster jcd has raised a good point upthread. ModernAdvisor's models are obviously calling for slight asset timing in addition to asset allocation. In the same way, Canadian Capitalist used to slightly tweak his allocations according to his views on US, canadian & world markets.

in the meantime, let's remember that cmf forum always welcomes & encourages enterprising young people. Let's respect this startup from an enterprising young person.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> .
> i see no purpose or merit in picking on this particular robo advisor. There are many robo advisors out there & more are crowding the field every month.


Humble, "_more crowding the field every month_". Good point. So is CMF going to allow the next 5 out of 6 threads to be advertisements rather than actual member posts?

I've expressed my opinion upthread. What differentiates this particular company is their decision to post a thread which is nothing more than an advertisement. They are not here as a forum member to ask questions, share ideas or opinions.
Modern advisor is no different than that sleazy plastic weight loss sign taped to the corner stop sign. They simply want the money of as many chumps as they can and will do anything to that end. Should we allow every company stick up their sleazy sign on every stop sign?

Just because a CEO has an Eng degree and some financial certification doesn't say anything about their ethics when it comes to promoting their 'weight loss' solution. As I pointed out upthread, this CEO insinuated (accused?) the competition of operating unethically and illegally. Pot meet kettle. 

I asked admin at the start to delete this SPAM, and followed up later asking why they hadn't. I've heard nothing from them. It appears that CMF admin are happy to allow SPAM advertising threads to be posted as long as it makes them money. And they don't have to respond to members unless they feel like it. Impressive.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Humble, "_more crowding the field every month_". Good point. So is CMF going to allow the next 5 out of 6 threads to be advertisements rather than actual member posts?
> 
> ... I asked admin at the start to delete this SPAM, and followed up later asking why they hadn't. I've heard nothing from them. It appears that CMF admin are happy to allow SPAM advertising threads to be posted as long as it makes them money. And they don't have to respond to members unless they feel like it. Impressive.




good for you for addressing concerns re advertising & spam that affect the entire forum.

as you know, many spammers commence by posing as genuine forum members. Somehow they get through the supposedly-moderated admission procedure. Then they start posting, but there are always telltale links or otherwise heavy promotional allusions in their messages.

you've seen these, onlyMO. There are many of these. Soon, one forum member or another usually reports them as spam. Off they go.

it seems that modernAdvisor started out that way, which was a small mistake on their part. But they quickly corrected themselves. We too should move on, no?

at the moment, modernAdv is working in their allocated thread, which is their sponsored thread.

now we come to the issue of sponsored threads in general. I remember when the first one was created. It's the one from questrade, i believe it's still on board. I remember Frugal Trader - who was coordinating the ads at that time - posting messages in the discussion. The conclusion was that a few sponsored threads would do no harm & might, in fact, even benefit the odd cmffer here or there.

on the other hand, a page stuffed with sponsored commercial stickies would be extraordinarily offputting, i believe.

how many sponsored threads would be too many sponsored threads?

me i'm OK with three or four, maximum five. You on the other hand might desire to see zero. Somewhere a wise administrator might find a balance.

at the end of the day, the fact is that our views as posters don't matter in the slightest. I believe majority ownership of cmf forum was recently sold to the Toronto Star? it is they who will decide. If torstar wants to increase ad revenues, tant pis pour nous.


(signed)
juste une pauvre miette

.


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## BlackThursday (Apr 25, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> I believe majority ownership of cmf forum was recently sold to the Toronto Star


I've been wondering what has happened in this forum. I haven't been here for a while but it seems a lot of regulars have disappeared (Crump, 4 Pillars, ..etc..).
Is it this ownership/ads thing that has repulsed them or has something else also happened here?


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

lol, let's talk net and see how you do....


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

BlackThursday said:


> I've been wondering what has happened in this forum. I haven't been here for a while but it seems a lot of regulars have disappeared (Crump, 4 Pillars, ..etc..).
> Is it this ownership/ads thing that has repulsed them or *has something else also happened here*?


 ... answer is the latter ... guessed you missed alot of episodes of CMF's version of the "Survivor". :cower:


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