# House insurance



## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Hello,

I did a couple searches but I can't find any recommendations online so I ask you guys, who do you use and what do you recommend? 

Details: I have a small ~6yr old condo in a low rise so what kind of coverage do I need (owner occupied, no businesses in building). 

BCAA has been recommended but on the other hand I have been told they are quite pricey and well I don't want to pay extra for brand-name insurance.


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## Assetologist (Apr 19, 2009)

Two thoughts:

- bundled insurance with a single firm is usually less expensive i.e.. home & auto with applied discounts

-consider joining a savings credit union (Coast Capital) or at least get a quote before going with another company


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## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

You can obtain free, immediate, lowest on-line quotes by entering your details on these 2 web sites :
www.kanetix.ca
www.insurancehotline.com


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## Pigzfly (Dec 2, 2010)

We went with TD Meloche Monnex on the recommendation of someone. 
Honestly, I do not know the fine print, but I do know that specific posessions we were concerned about (bicycles and jewelery, mostly), are more than adequately covered for our needs.

TD was substantially cheaper than the other options. When shopping for insurance, also check out any organizations that may offer you a discount. ie - alumni association discounts, professional organizations, even groups like BCWF or sports groups have discounts

For those from outside of BC - the auto insurance market here is quite different and therefore there is not a lot of ability to bundle. For example, I am too young to have non-basic insurance provided by anyone but ICBC.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Amabile, thanks for those 2 websites! The cheapest quote was $200 less than the BCAA quote (although I don't have any details as of yet on the coverage) but so far so good. 

How does one find out where the nearest fire hall and fire hydrant is? Is there some official government site etc that insurance brokers will accept for support?


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Check with your condo board to see what level of property insurance coverage they are recommending for your unit. For a house you want "replacement cost", exclusive of the land, but I don't know how they estimate this for a condo unit. You should determine what kind of insurance the Condo Corp itself has, and what is covered by it already.

For many years $1M was considered good liability coverage. With inflation many people are looking to increase this now. If your car and home policies are with the same company, you may be able to buy an “umbrella” policy cheaply to increase yout liabilty coverage. Monnex for one offers this.


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## orange (Oct 23, 2011)

Condo corporations will have insurance for the usual types of things you want to cover in a house, including liability insurance, but they won't cover any of your contents or upgrades made to your unit. Some condos have also changed their insurance policies to no longer cover flooring (it's amazingly expensive to insure, apparently, because it's the thing most often claimed after damage from, say, the bathroom flooding in the unit above you!) so check with your condo. We had an insurance specialist come to our annual general meeting to explain things before we voted on our new insurance policy, and generally getting insurance to cover your contents, flooring replacement and any unit upgrades is sufficient.

BUT CHECK YOUR CONDO INSURANCE FIRST for any recent changes.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I read that my insurance currently covers the house replacement cost itself. However, it covers about 50% more than the actual cost to rebuild the house. For example the cost to rebuild would be 100k, but the insurance is on 150k. 

Is this negotiable or are they adding that buffer just in case. I am trying to find ways to lower the costs for insurance.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Causalien said:


> I read that my insurance currently covers the house replacement cost itself. However, it covers about 50% more than the actual cost to rebuild the house. For example the cost to rebuild would be 100k, but the insurance is on 150k.
> 
> Is this negotiable or are they adding that buffer just in case. I am trying to find ways to lower the costs for insurance.


The cost of rebuild keeps rising every year. Minimum rebuild costs are
closer to $175 a sq ft these days and that is if you have nothing
fancy like jacuzzis, granite/solid oak kitchens, oak floors, better grade
windows and heating systems. My 1350sqft 40yr old semi-detached is insured for $234K.
so if I do the math..rebuild costs 1350sq ft x $175sq ft (if that is the
current rebuild cost) materials/labour/taxes = $236k for just
a basic construction grade house. 

It's not just the house wood structure rebuild that affects total replacement costs on the policy. 

There are other expenses involved in rebuilding a house that has experienced
a total fire.

1. Additional living expenses while they rebuild your home for several weeks
an possibly a couple of months or more.

2. Hauling the refuse away..most demolition contracts and municipal dumps charge $96 per tonne ( or even more) for residential/commercial demolition/construction waste. 
Figure on back loader, gravel truck loads (10 ton each), labour rates
and hauling it to the landfill site...another $50 per ton, so you have $150
per tonne. 

3. Now if the cement foundation was damaged/cracked/broken if the house burned down almost to the ground, (which may or may not happen if you are close to a firehall/hydrant), the foundation may have to be completely rebuilt as well,
add another "few thousand" for hauling the cement debris away and hiring
contractors to repair/ rebuild the foundation, before the wooden structure
construction can even begin.

4. Cost of permits/inspections, etc.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks, now I understand there's nothing I can do about that. It gnaws at my frugal instincts that I am paying for insurance on an old house that will end up being demolished anyway and the land valuation itself is the actual amount I can get from a sale.


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## smihaila (Apr 6, 2009)

And the stupid me just naively thought that the Canadian wooden barracks are built to last, for centuries 
I just realized that they are a real liability - their resale value will significantly decrease (land left aside) after 40-50 years. They will become wrecks, or if still on their feet, some scientific studies will be found in the meantime, showing potential health hazard in the materials that were used around that time.

Practical example: vermiculite (that particular Zonolite brand) is now the new "UFFI debacle"...Just walked away last Saturday from a 1956 house deal just because of that. Didn't want to take any risks. After all, Canada was supposed to be a country with one of the highest health and construction standards, right?

Eh, the houses are not built to last like in some countries in Europe or Central/South America (there they are having the foundation + vertical/horizontal structural beams and all the floors made of concrete, and the outside walls are brick and mortar. No trace of these "stick frame" structures).


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I've been visiting some of the houses in construction around here at night to check their methods and the materials used. It's safe to say that I will not be buying anything that 's built during the recent boom. My run down old house will survive a disaster better than any of the newly built one.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Causalien said:


> It gnaws at my frugal instincts that I am paying for *insurance on an old house that will end up being demolished anyway *and the land valuation itself is the actual amount I can get from a sale.


Lets look at it another way..if "this old house" (sounds like that series
on PBS ) were to burn down tomorrow, you are not going to be able to replace it at the cost that it was originally built for 50 -60 years ago..
in fact if it's even a modest 1000 sq ft little war-time box, it will cost anywhere from $175K + these days to replace it at the current materials
and construction costs. 

Insurance companies put a value on your home for replacement cost..
and expect you as a homeowner, to rebuild..otherwise..if it burned to the ground and you only had it insured for face value of the policy (say $100k).., you would have to either take out another mortgage to rebuild it (above the $100K face value) OR pay for demolition costs, refuse removal.

If you just wanted to take the money and run with it, you may even need to
hire a lawyer and fight with the insurance company to get the $100K
face value, since the burned out house has NO Value, just the land. 

If that was the case, the insurance company would think you were
"up to something" like causing a fire and trying to profit from the fire.
by just selling the land. 

They could order a lengthy fire investigation by the fire marshall, and stall and stall for months, possibly even years and you would have to hire a '
lawyer as well.

This happened on the outskirts of Ottawa..house burned down, a snow fence was erected around the burned out eyesore for many (well over a year).. finally they settled and built another house on the same property.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

smihaila said:


> - their resale value will significantly decrease (land left aside) after 40-50 years. They will become wrecks, or if still on their feet, some scientific studies will be found in the meantime, showing *potential health hazard in the materials that were used around that time.*Practical example: vermiculite (that particular Zonolite brand) is now the


That is a problem with selling any old home these days..nevermind the
health hazards these days that were standard construction many years ago.
I'm sure most people still remember UFFI (urea formaldehyde foam insulation)
being "approved by the gov'ts a few decades ago, blown into houses, and
people getting sick from the off gassing from this stuff. It got so bad,
that the house could not be put on the market without suffering huge losses
and even then the real estate people put special disclaimers in the sales
contracts where you had to say wheter it was or wasn't UFFI insulated.
If the seller, lied, and somebody moved in and found out that it was..well
lets say it would be an expensive proposition for the seller if the buyer
took him to court . The installation of UFFI maybe ran a couple of thousand,
to get it out of the walls, cost tens of thousands, because the walls had to
be torn apart and rebuilt. 

Asbestos..today if you have any of that stuff in your house..you have to
call the HazMat people to dispose of it..at some cost. Years ago you could
buy it in hardware stores in sheets for fire protection of wood stoves, etc. 

Aluminum wiring is another hassle for resales these days. My early 70s built home has aluminum wiring, and even though there was nothing wrong with that
back then,the wire was a bit cheaper than copper at the time. approved for
installation in new construction by the "electrical authorities" in the province, and pushed onto contractors because it was cheaper and more profit in it
for them over copper. Today it's a scourge as far as getting fire insurance.
I had to install copper pigtails on all my outlets/wall switches, and get it
inspected to comply with new regulations on fire insurance and selling it
in the future.


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