# Best hotel prices



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I am a confirmed 'book direct' advocate and this week, yet another example of why that is the case has re-confirmed my belief that all the third party online booking sites cannot beat dealing directly with a hotel to get the best deal.

My wife and I made a spur of the moment decision to take a short trip to Switzerland to get in some late season hiking before the snow and ski season begins. I phoned a hotel that we have stayed at a couple of times before and like, to make a reservation. A quick Skype call of under 5 minutes and it was done and dusted. 

Today, I decided to do a third party booking site comparison for the same location. I checked Booking, Travelocity, Hotels, Tripadvisor and not ONE of them could match the price I got directly from the hotel itself. The closest is around 16% more for a 7 night stay. Where do you suppose that additional 16% is going to?

What's more, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that those who book through a third party will not receive the same treatment as those who book directly with the hotel itself. Put yourself in their shoes, which guests would you look more favourable on? Who gets the room next to the elevator or ice machine? Who is more likely to get upgraded? Who is more likely to get 'bounced'? As for this particular hotel and our treatment in past visits, we even get picked up at the local train station on arrival. Third party guests do not I can assure you. 

Many hotels are starting to take back their business from third party booking sites. The hotels are offering 'best price guarantees' and paying attention to which guests are booking direct with them.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

What? None of you want to tell me how you always get the best deals using your favourite third party booking site? I thought I would get some real backlash on this one from the brainwashed masses.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

That's just one example. A single example doesn't prove anything.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

No it doesn't Earl. Would you like me to provide more examples? I would have no difficulty doing so. 

More and more hotels are fighting back and offering 'best price guarantee'. That alone means there is NO price advantage to a third party site when looking at a hotel that has that guarantee. Ever stay in a Hilton? They not only guarantee the lowest price, if you find a lower price for the same room after having booked through Hilton directly, they will match that price MINUS 25%, for every night of your stay.
https://hiltonworldwide3.hilton.com...s Price Match Guarantee,you 25% off that stay.

Hilton is a chain that is very actively fighting for you to book direct. Oh and do you collect Hilton reward points? No points awarded if a booking is made through a third party site. Oops.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

What is the point of this thread. It is anecdotal. I have found best prices both on line and with the hotel. I check both places and weigh out the factors each trip. I will also use a travel agent599. No one answer all the time. 

Does OP require a pat on the back and reassurance that he can make capable decision. Not sure what else to say, but I will try....

Good job Longtimeago. Congratulations your wonderful find. In additional to getting the best deal this, you must feel truly superior. Please continue your outstanding service to yourself. Your wife and family must be proud to have such astute traveller.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I usually will book from the hotels directly. Easier to make changes and cancel if needed than going via third parties.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I used to get great prices on Hotwire. Even used them in Europe to book hotels in Paris and Frankfurt and as well as YYZ. Then Expedia bought them. Now we do airbnb. The value of booking.com is that it presents an number of alternatives in the area that you would not think of. If you want Hilton or any other big chain, best to deal with them directly.

I recently tried Trivago and then booked directly for a $15/night savings at Hilton. Trivago is also owned by Expedia. One thing to watch out for is that Expedia shows you prices in USD for CDN locations.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

Look at all these rich 1%ers staying at Hiltons in Paris and Switzerland. I guess the boomers are really enjoying their retirements. I guess when you have a defined benefit pension (which is pretty much unheard of for my generation) and when you've enjoyed the biggest bull real estate market in history, you can afford to fly all over the world.

Most of my travelling is road trips within Canada and I stay at motels like the Comfort Inn, Super 8, Days Inn, and when I'm feeling really luxurious, Best Western.

I usually book through the phone app. There's Choice Privileges for the Comfort Inn, Wyndham Rewards for Super 8, and Best Western has their own. You get points each time you book which you can later redeem for a free stay after you accumulate enough points. Booking through the app is always cheaper than the price you will get if you call them over the phone or if you show up in person. I used to try negotiating in person, it never worked.

As for some la-dee-dah hotel in western Europe, I couldn't speak to that, I've never been (nor do I wish to, I prefer staying in Canada). We got a big beautiful diverse country here, there's no need to leave it. Last summer I visited Nova Scotia (on my motorcycle). Spent a week just riding around. It's more beautiful than Europe as far as I'm concerned. Most of the motels were around $150-180 per night. Next year I might strap my tent and sleeping bag onto my bike and sleep in provincial parks to save some money.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I use the 3rd party sites to narrow down to the preferred 2-4 choices and go directly to the hotel websites though the points portal. I find booking direct is usually less costly especially when using senior or AAA/CAA discount, and always get 24 hr or less cancellation, and get points. I sometimes even use the phone. What a concept!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I find that sometimes direct at the hotel (phone or web site) matches third party web sites, but other times does not. I also use Hotwire occasionally and find it can offer savings, but you have to carefully compare to regular booking prices. It doesn't always save you money.

I always start looking at booking.com or hotels.com to search around for what's available.

For a hotel I just stayed at in California, booking directly through the hotel is $4/night less expensive compared to hotels.com. But I've had other cases where the Hotwire rate is much cheaper than any direct booking, and I can't say that I've ever been disappointed or felt like I was treated poorly by a hotel due to that kind of booking. I always book minimum 3 stars with Hotwire.

e.g. you can get a downtown Vancouver hotel 3.5 star hotel for Monday night at $153 total after taxes. It's very likely the Century Plaza Hotel And Spa or Rosedale on Robson from my experience with these. Booking direct with that first one would be $274 even with CAA/senior discount. Direct with second one would be $196.

So assuming it's the second (cheaper) hotel, Hotwire is showing a 22% savings versus booking directly. That's a huge saving. Mind you, it's prepaid and nonrefundable... that's the main catch.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

There is no point to comparing something that is not apples to apples.

Hotwire for example is a 'hidden' hotel site. You don't know what hotel you are getting till you book. I have no interest whatsoever in doing that. Other differences as has been pointed out are things like having to pre-pay or accept a 'no cancellation' booking. Again, I have no interest whatsoever in doing that. If someone doesn't care where they stay and are willing to accept things like non-refundable bookings, that's up to them. But in regards to my original post, they are not comparable. You can't really compare a care with brakes to a car with no brakes unless all you care out is they are both a car.

In retrospect I should not have titled the thread, 'best hotel prices' as that is not really what I am interested in. The title would better be put as, 'best hotel value'. Price and value are not synonymous and I am more interested in what I GET for my money than in simply looking at a price difference. For example, if a site offers me a $10 lower price per night but at the same time will only allow a cancellation and full refund up to 7 days before arrival vs. a cancellation and full refund up to 2pm on the day of arrival, those two offers are not equal in VALUE. How much value you see being able to cancel as being worth is up to the individual.

What I tried to do with my current example was compare apples to apples. So for example, some third party sites will offer you a choice of prices, one price if you pre-pay and cannot get a refund, another where you can cancel up to a certain time before arrival and another price for fully cancellable and refundable. The same as airlines now do for exactly the same reasons. I don't compare flight costs that aren't fully refundable either, I would never book one.

A lot of people (majority?) put way too much emphasis on price ALONE these days in my opinion. If all someone wants is a bed, why are they even looking at hotels? You can stay in a hostel dorm for less or as Earl says, "Next year I might strap my tent and sleeping bag onto my bike and sleep in provincial parks to save some money." The answer of course to that question of why even stay in a hotel is that there is a certain 'standard' below which an individual is not willing to go.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

newfoundlander61 said:


> I usually will book from the hotels directly. Easier to make changes and cancel if needed than going via third parties.


That is of course 100% correct newfoundlander61 but most people don't think about it till they are trying to check in to a hotel at midnight after a long flight and discover they have been 'bumped' due to an overbooking. Oops, too bad. Then they discover how the third party booking site and the hotel play 'ping pong' in arguing responsibility for it. The traveller of course in that scenario is the ping pong ball.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> There is no point to comparing something that is not apples to apples.
> 
> Hotwire for example is a 'hidden' hotel site. You don't know what hotel you are getting till you book. I have no interest whatsoever in doing that. Other differences as has been pointed out are things like having to pre-pay or accept a 'no cancellation' booking. Again, I have no interest whatsoever in doing that. If someone doesn't care where they stay and are willing to accept things like non-refundable bookings, that's up to them.


For a seasoned traveler, you surprise me that you are still stuck in the old paradigm for Hotwire. That changed when Expedia bought them. And why I stopped using them. The last two times I used them in Europe, I got Hiltons.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Earl said:


> As for some la-dee-dah hotel in western Europe, I couldn't speak to that, I've never been (nor do I wish to, I prefer staying in Canada). We got a big beautiful diverse country here, there's no need to leave it. Last summer I visited Nova Scotia (on my motorcycle). Spent a week just riding around. It's more beautiful than Europe as far as I'm concerned. Most of the motels were around $150-180 per night. Next year I might strap my tent and sleeping bag onto my bike and sleep in provincial parks to save some money.


People who say they have never been anywhere else and then say they have no need to leave Canada always make me wonder how they think Earl. Do you realize just how stupid it sounds to say 'It's more beautiful than Europe' when you have just admitted you have never been to Europe? Just HOW would you KNOW whether one place is more beautiful than another if you have never been to both to compare? 

Then what about the cultural differences, food differences, architecture, history? Trying to justify to YOURSELF that there is no need to leave Canada is simply foolish. That's like saying you have never eaten anything but a hamburger and never need to eat anything else as you are sure nothing else will be as good as far as you are concerned.

Visiting other countries is one of the most educational things you can do in your life Earl. Maybe when you can afford to do so in coming years, you ought to give it a try. But NOT on 'all-inclusive package vacations' where you will learn little or nothing about the place you are supposedly 'visiting'. Travel independently in other countries as you are doing now in Canada. Want a great motorcycle vacation, try one like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiGXd3UocFw Then and ONLY then will you be able to say, "It's more beautiful than Europe". But I doubt you will be saying that. The Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia, or in the USA, the Pacific Coast Highway are great motorcycle rides but not comparable to riding in the Alps of Europe Earl.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> For a seasoned traveler, you surprise me that you are still stuck in the old paradigm for Hotwire. That changed when Expedia bought them. And why I stopped using them. The last two times I used them in Europe, I got Hiltons.


So now they are just like all the others is what you are saying kcowan, they tell you the hotel and give you the same price as all of Expedia's other sites. Pointless then.

Even as a hidden hotel booking site I have never been interested. It just doesn't make any sense to me to book 'blind'. I want to stay in the hotel that I choose to stay in and in Europe, that is never a Hilton or any other chain hotel by the way. We usually stay in small independent more 'boutique' like hotels. We like hotels with character, not cookie cutter chain hotels. In N. America that is becoming harder and harder to do but in Europe there are countless unique hotels to choose from. For a splurge, here is one of our favourites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3XpKEiyPcY I'm guessing Earl will just love that one. For a more modest spend here is a smaller favourite: https://www.bellevuewiesen.com/en?lang=en

We only pre-book hotels when we are returning to an area and know where we want to stay. Generally, we travel without any pre-booking at all for maximum flexibility. I never understand how people can think they know how much time they will want to spend in a place. A place may hold our interest for 1 day or a week, how much time should we 'plan' to spend there? We prefer (again, unless it is a return visit) to stay in a place till we are ready to leave and then move on. Whether it will be 1 day or 10 days simply depends on how long it holds our interest. To me, that's the difference between a truly independent traveller and a tourist who is on a 'tour', whether a tour organized by a travel company or a tour they have organized for themselves. You can book a 'tour' you cannot book how long a place will hold your interest.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> People who say they have never been anywhere else and then say they have no need to leave Canada always make me wonder how they think Earl. Do you realize just how stupid it sounds to say 'It's more beautiful than Europe' when you have just admitted you have never been to Europe? Just HOW would you KNOW whether one place is more beautiful than another if you have never been to both to compare?
> 
> Then what about the cultural differences, food differences, architecture, history? Trying to justify to YOURSELF that there is no need to leave Canada is simply foolish. That's like saying you have never eaten anything but a hamburger and never need to eat anything else as you are sure nothing else will be as good as far as you are concerned.
> 
> Visiting other countries is one of the most educational things you can do in your life Earl. Maybe when you can afford to do so in coming years, you ought to give it a try. But NOT on 'all-inclusive package vacations' where you will learn little or nothing about the place you are supposedly 'visiting'. Travel independently in other countries as you are doing now in Canada. Want a great motorcycle vacation, try one like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiGXd3UocFw Then and ONLY then will you be able to say, "It's more beautiful than Europe". But I doubt you will be saying that. The Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia, or in the USA, the Pacific Coast Highway are great motorcycle rides but not comparable to riding in the Alps of Europe Earl.


I find it amusing you think people don't travel to Europe because they can't afford to. For your information I have plenty of savings and a high income and could travel to Europe or anywhere else in the world multiple times every year if I chose to. I simply don't care for it. I guess some people can't grasp that not everyone chooses to spend their money as soon as they can. I simply don't care about European culture or history, or African or Asian or South American either. I have no need to go see it. Europeans travel because their countries are small and not nearly as diverse as Canada so if they want to experience something different, they need to leave their countries. In Canada we are lucky to have an enormous diverse country, I have been to Nova Scotia and I have been to BC and the differences between them is astounding, plus I don't have to worry about border crossings, or airports, or sitting next to some annoying idiot on a cramped plane, or having difficulty communicating with someone who can't speak my language.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Earl said:


> I find it amusing you think people don't travel to Europe because they can't afford to. For your information I have plenty of savings and a high income and could travel to Europe or anywhere else in the world multiple times every year if I chose to. I simply don't care for it. I guess some people can't grasp that not everyone chooses to spend their money as soon as they can. I simply don't care about European culture or history, or African or Asian or South American either. I have no need to go see it. Europeans travel because their countries are small and not nearly as diverse as Canada so if they want to experience something different, they need to leave their countries. In Canada we are lucky to have an enormous diverse country, I have been to Nova Scotia and I have been to BC and the differences between them is astounding, plus I don't have to worry about border crossings, or airports, or sitting next to some annoying idiot on a cramped plane, or having difficulty communicating with someone who can't speak my language.


Oh my, such strong opinions for someone without the knowledge to back them up. I have travelled Canada from coast to coast and have at least drove through if not spent more time, in every continental US state. I have also travelled in many other countries around the world. I would never say that Canada or even N. America is enough however diverse you might THINK it is. As for the difference between NS and BC being 'astounding', all I can say is you must be easily astounded. They're both Canadian in more ways than not. But they are worlds away (literally) from other places in the world in many ways.

If you are happy to stay in Canada Earl, that is your choice to make. But do not presume to say you know it is better in any way than somewhere you have never been. That just makes you look foolish.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Earl said:


> plus I don't have to worry about border crossings, or airports, or sitting next to some annoying idiot on a cramped plane, or having difficulty communicating with someone who can't speak my language.


How would you know about any of that if you have never done any of it? 

I don't have to worry about border crossings even though I have crossed a great many. I don't know why anyone would have to 'worry' about them unless they had a criminal record or were smuggling something.

What's your problem with airports? You arrive, you check-in, you board a plane, it's pretty easy to do Earl.

I don't sit next to some annoying idiot on a cramped plane. I book a seat that gives me the room I need and there are no more annoying idiots on a plane than anywhere else you find yourself. 

I have never had any real problem communicating with someone in any country. Note I say 'real problem'. Trying to communicate with someone who does not speak your language is actually fun. I've used hand signs, drew pictures, used a dictionary that we passed back and forth to each other, got a third person who could translate involved. There are all kinds of ways to communicate, speaking a given language is only one of them. 

Travel and spending time in another country is also one of the best ways to learn some basics of another language. But if you have no interest in learning anything of course, then there is no appeal in that is there. There is no argument anyone can make if someone says, "I simply don't care about European culture or history, or African or Asian or South American either." All one can do in that case is pity the person with such a limited view of life.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> Oh my, such strong opinions for someone without the knowledge to back them up. I have travelled Canada from coast to coast and have at least drove through if not spent more time, in every continental US state. I have also travelled in many other countries around the world. I would never say that Canada or even N. America is enough however diverse you might THINK it is. As for the difference between NS and BC being 'astounding', all I can say is you must be easily astounded. They're both Canadian in more ways than not. But they are worlds away (literally) from other places in the world in many ways.
> 
> If you are happy to stay in Canada Earl, that is your choice to make. But do not presume to say you know it is better in any way than somewhere you have never been. That just makes you look foolish.


You're the one who looks foolish here because you are assuming that just because something is important to you (travelling to Europe) that everyone else wants to do it too. I simply have no desire to see Europe, or "experience the culture" of it. Or any other part of the world. Your argument that "how can you know if you haven't experienced it" is ludicrous, by that logic you should snort cocaine because how do you know that you won't like it if you haven't tried it?


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> How would you know about any of that if you have never done any of it?


How do you know you wouldn't like cocaine or meth if you haven't tried it? Is that a good argument that everyone should try coke?



> I don't have to worry about border crossings even though I have crossed a great many. I don't know why anyone would have to 'worry' about them unless they had a criminal record or were smuggling something.


I have crossed the US border both by car and by air countless times and never once was it a smooth process. There is always a lengthy wait, and they always make me feel like a criminal with the way they treat me. Maybe your experience is different because you are old so they take it easy on you but I have always found it annoying and difficult.



> What's your problem with airports? You arrive, you check-in, you board a plane, it's pretty easy to do Earl.


I don't enjoy long waits nor do I enjoy fighting my way through thick crowds.



> I don't sit next to some annoying idiot on a cramped plane. I book a seat that gives me the room I need and there are no more annoying idiots on a plane than anywhere else you find yourself.


You don't have any control over who sits next to you. If the person next to you has bad breath, or keeps yapping to somebody else, or has a crying baby, there is nothing you can do about that except tolerate it for hours on end.



> I have never had any real problem communicating with someone in any country. Note I say 'real problem'. Trying to communicate with someone who does not speak your language is actually fun. I've used hand signs, drew pictures, used a dictionary that we passed back and forth to each other, got a third person who could translate involved. There are all kinds of ways to communicate, speaking a given language is only one of them.


I have difficulty communicating even in Quebec where I know at least basic French, I can only imagine it would be far more difficult in a country where I don't know the language at all.



> Travel and spending time in another country is also one of the best ways to learn some basics of another language. But if you have no interest in learning anything of course, then there is no appeal in that is there. There is no argument anyone can make if someone says, "I simply don't care about European culture or history, or African or Asian or South American either." All one can do in that case is pity the person with such a limited view of life.


Why can't you accept that your priorities and what you consider important in life aren't the same for others? Why do you need me to place the same importance on "cultural immersion" as you? I don't want to travel, leave me be instead of trying to convince me that I'm wrong.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Seems 'on point' for this thread https://www.wikihow.com/Annoy-Argumentative-People

Some additional insight https://healthpsychologyconsultancy.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/the-argumentative-personality/ also suitable for some of the players in the Elections thread.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Seems 'on point' for this thread https://www.wikihow.com/Annoy-Argumentative-People
> 
> Some additional insight https://healthpsychologyconsultancy.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/the-argumentative-personality/ also suitable for some of the players in the Elections thread.


I'll have you know I have nothing better to do today.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Earl said:


> I'll have you know I have nothing better to do today.


Neither do I :saturn:


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't get it ... is that 22% discount versus 'booking direct' a figment of my imagination? True that it not a perfect apples to apples comparison, but in some circumstances, especially if you are somewhat indifferent to which exact hotel you're getting within a certain class, those big discounts can be worth taking. I do this in downtown Toronto and Vancouver all the time, as there are many good options within regions and I'm OK with the uncertainty.

In Hotwire's case, sometimes they give clues about the property. In this case I am about 80% sure it's Rosedale Condominiums. Hotwire gives you a significant discount versus booking directly.

But yes if you want full certainty about what you're booking, then this doesn't apply.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Earl said:


> You're the one who looks foolish here because you are assuming that just because something is important to you (travelling to Europe) that everyone else wants to do it too. I simply have no desire to see Europe, or "experience the culture" of it. Or any other part of the world. Your argument that "how can you know if you haven't experienced it" is ludicrous, by that logic you should snort cocaine because how do you know that you won't like it if you haven't tried it?


Umm, well the difference would be Earl that I haven't said, crack is better than cocaine and I have no need to try cocaine to know that. That's the same as you saying the scenery in NS is better than in Europe and you have no need to go and see for yourself. Duhhhh


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I don't get it ... is that 22% discount versus 'booking direct' a figment of my imagination? True that it not a perfect apples to apples comparison, but in some circumstances, especially if you are somewhat indifferent to which exact hotel you're getting within a certain class, those big discounts can be worth taking. I do this in downtown Toronto and Vancouver all the time, as there are many good options within regions and I'm OK with the uncertainty.
> 
> In Hotwire's case, sometimes they give clues about the property. In this case I am about 80% sure it's Rosedale Condominiums. Hotwire gives you a significant discount versus booking directly.
> 
> But yes if you want full certainty about what you're booking, then this doesn't apply.


You don't get it? OK, a lower price is only of interest to me IF it for a place that I want to stay in. Booking blind does not tell me that is the case does it. 

Let me give you an example james4beach. I used to live in a popular tourist area. I met quite a few tourists who had booked 'blind' and then spent their week moaning about how the hotel they got was miles from anywhere, had limited amenities, meant they had to eat their every night or take a bus a half hour into town, etc. etc.

You are only talking about a blind booking of a N. American chain type hotel. Seen one Holiday Inn, seen them all. In that case yes, your blind booking is as good as someone who books direct but I am not talking about that kind of a booking. How would you feel about a hotel you are going to stay in for a week or more that was out in the boonies when what you wanted was a lively 'apres-ski' hotel and preferably right next to the ski lifts?

You talk about a 22% discount, I get that would matter to you if the hotel was acceptable to you but it would be meaningless if the hotel was not acceptable to you. That's when you would see the difference between price and value for money. In the example I gave at the start of this thread, the price was 16% cheaper booking direct rather than with a third party site, do you really think your 22% outweighs my 16% when you book blind and I book with certainty? When I visit Vancouver I stay at the Hotel Vancouver. Do you find them on Hotwire james4beach? Hotwire can only offer you the hotels who chose to do business with them and can only offer you as many rooms as are made available to them. 

You are also only talking about blind booking sites. I am talking primarily about all the other non-blind third party booking sites. Nowadays, they all have the same price usually. But I can go on a third party site and check for a room in the Hotel Vancouver for a given date and get a 'sold out' for that date while if I phone the hotel, they have a room available. I stay in the hotel I want to stay in, not settle for a second best. 

It is not 'especially if you are somewhat indifferent to which exact hotel you're getting within a certain class', it is always if you are indifferent. I am never indifferent to what hotel I stay in. If I'm in Vancouver, I'm staying at the Hotel Vancouver where I have been staying for over 30 years. I have been getting upgraded to Fairmont Gold for almost as long as that and even now when I visit far less often than I did 20 years ago, they still give me this every single time. It is the hotel that has me on file james4beach and who extend me that upgrade, NO third party site no matter now long you do business with them or how often or how much you spend, will EVER get you that.

Now I am not saying booking direct will get you that kind of thing with every hotel you ever visit but you'll never get it if you book with third parties. If you visit Vancouver regularly on business for example as I did, whatever hotel you stay in will give you upgrades IF you book with them every time, not 'shop around' for the lowest price for an 'equivalent hotel in a given class'. 

When I stay at the Hotel Vancouver, I don't even check-in on the main floor. I just drive up, give my keys to the Valet and go in and take the elevator to the 9th floor. I sign-in, not check-in there, meaning I just sign my name, they have all the details. I'm handed my room card and I'm done. My suitcase is brought up within a few minutes from my car. 

Now you tell me if your 22% really means much versus my booking direct. What you get is nothing like what I get and as often as not, I'm saying to you I don't pay anymore than anyone booking through a third party pays for a standard room.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

...


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

So we go from ‘Best Hotel Prices’ with a wonderful job of the OP being able to book a hotel room that his spouse will be proud of. Then no one comments, so we get…. 



Longtimeago said:


> What? None of you want to tell me how you always get the best deals using your favourite third party booking site? I thought I would get some real backlash on this one from the brainwashed masses.


Clearly, trolling and trying to show how clearly superior he is, perhaps the spouse didn’t show enough appreciation. 

Then lots of people showing there are other ways to get the best price. Best price, means lower… I didn’t think it would be in so few post where OP changes his criteria… 



Longtimeago said:


> There is no point to comparing something that is not apples to apples.
> 
> Hotwire for example is a 'hidden' hotel site. You don't know what hotel you are getting till you book. I have no interest whatsoever in doing that. Other differences as has been pointed out are things like having to pre-pay or accept a 'no cancellation' booking. Again, I have no interest whatsoever in doing that. If someone doesn't care where they stay and are willing to accept things like non-refundable bookings, that's up to them. But in regards to my original post, they are not comparable. You can't really compare a care with brakes to a car with no brakes unless all you care out is they are both a car.
> 
> ...


So apples to apples is only if it is what OP values. In this case, it’s not the best price, but the subjectively the best value. Here OP adds his subjective criteria of value of refundable bookings and knowing exactly what hotel you want, and starts using examples of blind booking companies. Not all 3rd parties are blind booking, you can still book the exact hotel you want on a 3rd party, making that argument invalid. 

Sure, if you want full refundability, then one can choose to pay for it. Once, OP assume everyone cares about this on all trips. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. 



Longtimeago said:


> That is of course 100% correct newfoundlander61 but most people don't think about it till they are trying to check in to a hotel at midnight after a long flight and discover they have been 'bumped' due to an overbooking. Oops, too bad. Then they discover how the third party booking site and the hotel play 'ping pong' in arguing responsibility for it. The traveller of course in that scenario is the ping pong ball.


This has happened booking directly with the hotel too. Of course, I state this, OP will make us something about it being anecdotal, which is it, but no different than his little stories. My spouse and I have travelled close to 200 hotel nights a year in our earlier careers. So we know the in and outs of the hotel industry. We have been bumped on occasion, and that wasn’t a third party. 



Longtimeago said:


> We only pre-book hotels when we are returning to an area and know where we want to stay. Generally, we travel without any pre-booking at all for maximum flexibility. I never understand how people can think they know how much time they will want to spend in a place. A place may hold our interest for 1 day or a week, how much time should we 'plan' to spend there? We prefer (again, unless it is a return visit) to stay in a place till we are ready to leave and then move on. Whether it will be 1 day or 10 days simply depends on how long it holds our interest. To me, that's the difference between a truly independent traveller and a tourist who is on a 'tour', whether a tour organized by a travel company or a tour they have organized for themselves. You can book a 'tour' you cannot book how long a place will hold your interest.


Lovely, this is important to you. Now, your thread is the “best hotel price” based on “value” where value is defined as maximum flexibility for the ‘Independent traveller’, as define as a person who books their trips based on ‘how long their interests is held for’, but not a tourist, because tourist have limitations, and now where are not talking apples to apples if you are a tourist verses an independent traveler. 



Longtimeago said:


> You don't get it? OK, a lower price is only of interest to me IF it for a place that I want to stay in. Booking blind does not tell me that is the case does it.
> 
> It is not 'especially if you are somewhat indifferent to which exact hotel you're getting within a certain class', it is always if you are indifferent. I am never indifferent to what hotel I stay in. If I'm in Vancouver, I'm staying at the Hotel Vancouver where I have been staying for over 30 years. I have been getting upgraded to Fairmont Gold for almost as long as that and even now when I visit far less often than I did 20 years ago, they still give me this every single time. It is the hotel that has me on file james4beach and who extend me that upgrade, NO third party site no matter now long you do business with them or how often or how much you spend, will EVER get you that.
> 
> ...


Now you are adding ANOTHER criteria of frequent rewards, or VIP membership and booking at the same chain. 

So the thread of the “best hotel price” based on “value” where value is defined as maximum flexibility for the ‘Independent traveller’, as define as a person who books their trips based on ‘how long their interests is held for’, but not a tourist, because tourist have limitations, and now where are not talking apples to apples if you are a tourist verses an independent traveler, and that you get Gold rewards or frequently travel rewards is the thread.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Got it.... this thread of “best hotel price” is 
- based on “value” where value is defined as maximum flexibility 
- for the ‘Independent traveller’, as define as a person who books their trips based on ‘how long their interests is held for’, 
- but not a tourist, because tourist have limitations
- that you get Gold rewards or frequently travel rewards is the thread. 

OP: You are right, you will usually get the best price calling the hotel directly if you want maximum flexibility, ability to receive points, and get frequent Gold rewards. 

You should have started with that on your first post. But then how would you be able to argue with people without constant redefining the terms.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> You should have started with that on your first post. But then how would you be able to argue with people without constant redefining the terms.



+1 See post #21.......


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Plugging Along said:


> Got it.... this thread of “best hotel price” is
> - based on “value” where value is defined as maximum flexibility
> - for the ‘Independent traveller’, as define as a person who books their trips based on ‘how long their interests is held for’,
> - but not a tourist, because tourist have limitations
> ...


Thanks for boiling it down to the basics Plugging Along. 

I did start the thread thinking about how so many people use third party sites who are in reality only parasites who add nothing to the equation between a hotel and a consumer. But like everything else, there are other things that are related to the topic that can and do sidetrack a topic. The topic of third party sites and their value to the customer has a lot of side issues we could digress on. I have no problem in discussing/debating any of them.

We could for example talk about Rate Parity. Why are OTAs in favour of them and hotels not in favour? Why are some countries legislating against them? Who does Rate Parity benefit? https://businessblog.trivago.com/rate-parity-hotel-industry-status/

Rate Parity does NOT benefit the consumer at all. They try to stop a hotel from offering you a better deal than the OTAs offer you. That's YOUR pocket they are trying to control. Yet I am sure that most travellers don't even know about Rate Parity and how it works. 
https://businessblog.trivago.com/rate-parity-hotel-industry-status/

The OTAs are offering you a room for $100 and they are taking 15-30% of that for themselves. Now suppose you own a hotel and a potential guest phone's you directly. Would you not be willing to offer them say a 10% lower price ($90 price) and keep all of it instead of $66-85 if they book through an OTA? The answer is obvious. But Rate Parity agreements that the OTAs make them sign, mean the hotel cannot offer you a lower price THAT WAY.

So what does a hotel like the one we will stay at this week do instead? In our case, the superior rooms we are booking are not given to the OTAs to sell at all. So the hotel can put any price they want on those rooms. Or a hotel will give you free wi-fi, free parking, complimentary breakfast, etc. which you do not get booking through an OTA. The room price remains the same, the value does not.

Some may ask, why would a hotel agree to signing a Rate Parity Agreement at all? The reality is, they have no choice given that at least 40% of all bookings today are done using OTAs. They cannot ignore that large a segment of the market which gives the OTAs the power to insist on them signing an agreement to not advertise a lower price on the hotel's own website. But again, look at it from the consumer's point of view. It is not to our benefit. Ask yourself what an OTA adds to the equation that is worth $15-30 out of every $100 you spend on hotels.

From this site: https://www.eyefortravel.com/revenue-and-data-management/rate-parity-should-it-stay-or-should-it-go

_"From the consumer’s perspective, especially the savvy ones, it makes no sense to them that they have to pay the same amount when they book directly to a hotel versus when they book via a third-party retail source. The consumers know that hotels pay commissions to these third-party players and cannot logically fathom why these `commission savings’ are not passed down to them,” _

The answer to that is Rate Parity does not allow the hotel to do so when you book direct. However, the hotel and the savvy traveller CAN look at 'value' and not just price to change the equation in favour of both the hotel and the traveller. No way am I going to pay an OTA $15-30% of my hotel budget when they add nothing to the equation in return. I look to the hotel to offer me a better value if I book directly with them and they DO.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I just booked a trip using Expedia. The “value” I got from using the site was it allowed me to see a bunch of hotels all at once and compare them. It also allowed me to change dates to see if there was a better price if I booked say Monday-Thursday as opposed to Tuesday to Friday. I could see on a map if the hotel was beach front or set back. I could book hotels in several different places and get discount admission to things to do in the cities where I booked. I could see what benefits the different hotels offered. Also, I got points which discounted the next trip, got one hotel night free on this trip because of the last trip. I can cancel up to the day before. 

Did I call the hotels I booked to see if there was a better price? Nope, I didn’t have to call anyone, let alone several different places. So, did I get the best value, I’m not sure since I didn’t call to compare, but I got a lot of value from booking with Expedia. In the past I found Expedia gave better prices than other online booking places. That being said, they aren’t perfect...their guaranteed price match is a lie as I found in the past.

Update: just checked my bookings on Expedia. They had a sale on one of my hotels, saved an extra $100 by cancelling the original booking and rebooking the same hotel. If you check a couple times as you get closer to your trip you can get in on last minute savings sometimes. No need to call the hotel.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Seems 'on point' for this thread https://www.wikihow.com/Annoy-Argumentative-People
> 
> Some additional insight https://healthpsychologyconsultancy.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/the-argumentative-personality/ also suitable for some of the players in the Elections thread.


Thanks AR for posting some valuable information. It is nice to stumble on such gems in a circular thread.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Thanks for boiling it down to the basics Plugging Along.


Yes thanks PA. It saves a sense of getting dizzy with all the pointless twists and turns.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> +1 See post #21.......


That's why I took the time to point out the OP's way or arguing which seems to consistent to your post. Once again he has redefined the argument for his purpose



kcowan said:


> Yes thanks PA. It saves a sense of getting dizzy with all the pointless twists and turns.


OP tends to bring a lot of pointless items and keeps changing the parameters. So it was good practice for my critical thinking... keeps my brain young in trying to sort out useless and pointless information.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> I just booked a trip using Expedia. The “value” I got from using the site was it allowed me to see a bunch of hotels all at once and compare them. It also allowed me to change dates to see if there was a better price if I booked say Monday-Thursday as opposed to Tuesday to Friday. I could see on a map if the hotel was beach front or set back. I could book hotels in several different places and get discount admission to things to do in the cities where I booked. I could see what benefits the different hotels offered. Also, I got points which discounted the next trip, got one hotel night free on this trip because of the last trip. I can cancel up to the day before.
> 
> Did I call the hotels I booked to see if there was a better price? Nope, I didn’t have to call anyone, let alone several different places. So, did I get the best value, I’m not sure since I didn’t call to compare, but I got a lot of value from booking with Expedia. In the past I found Expedia gave better prices than other online booking places. That being said, they aren’t perfect...their guaranteed price match is a lie as I found in the past.
> 
> Update: just checked my bookings on Expedia. They had a sale on one of my hotels, saved an extra $100 by cancelling the original booking and rebooking the same hotel. If you check a couple times as you get closer to your trip you can get in on last minute savings sometimes. No need to call the hotel.


Now why don't you call the hotel direct, tell them the dates and price you have from Expedia and ask them if they will offer you anything better if you cancel that booking and book direct with them. I'd ask if they would give you an upgrade for the same price or add some perks that the Expedia booking does not include. ie. free wi-fi, free parking, free breakfast, free minibar, free spa treatment, etc. etc. It all depends on what the hotel has to offer.

In my case, I got a free room upgrade to a room the OTAs don't even have available to offer you. Never forget, YOU and the hotel are paying Expedia commission for that booking and it is in the interest of both YOU and the hotel to eliminate that third party commission.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I agree, but I’d have to call multiple hotels and negotiate multiple times. I’m already getting free parking, free wifi, etc. The calls would take up way more time than the benefits probably. I value my time more than a spa treatment. It took less than 2 minutes to check Expedia and save the $100. I doubt the phone call would be less than 15 minutes each hotel. They also can’t beat the free night.

I did just check the website of the one I just had reduced. It’s over $100 more than I’ll pay for the same stay.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> I agree, but I’d have to call multiple hotels and negotiate multiple times. I’m already getting free parking, free wifi, etc. The calls would take up way more time than the benefits probably. I value my time more than a spa treatment. It took less than 2 minutes to check Expedia and save the $100. I doubt the phone call would be less than 15 minutes each hotel. They also can’t beat the free night.
> 
> I did just check the website of the one I just had reduced. It’s over $100 more than I’ll pay for the same stay.


I know many people would like everything to be simple with only one factor to consider when doing something but in the real world, that is rare. Some here have written about how I have added criteria as this thread as gone along and that's true. But it is because many factors are interrelated and while you can start out with just 1 or 2, you often have to then consider others as they become applicable to a specific scenario.

So in the case of this booking you have, it is kind of the reverse. You've already picked a hotel so there is no need to call any other hotels. I pick hotels based on various factors and only one is budget. Note I did not say price. If we decide our hotel budget for a given trip is X per night, then I look for hotels in that price RANGE. So let's say, $15-200 if it's a tight budget, $200-300 if it's a bit higher budget and maybe a $5-600 for a splurge. Obviously everyone's budget will differ. Once I have a budget, I then look at hotels in the area in that range and consider all the other factors that matter like location (right side of town for example), ammenities, etc. In other words, I evaluate the hotel in terms of which of my needs and wants it will provide me. I cannot do that on any 'one click' third party site. I have to look at each hotel to make my choice. Once I have then picked a hotel that has what I want and is in my budget range, I make ONE call to that hotel to book. It's a case of the cart and the horse. Price is not the driving factor, picking the hotel I want is the driving factor.

At that point, I could look at third party sites and find the lowest price they offer. Then I can call the hotel and negotiate a better offer. Often though I don't bother looking at any third party sites, I just call the hotel. If you read the links I provided that explain Rate Parity, you will understand that in many cases, Rate Parity Agreements will prevent the hotel from offering a lower rate than the OTAs. But more and more countries and particularly in Europe are banning Rate Parity. So if Rate Parity is not allowed in a country I intend to visit, I can expect to get a lower price by booking direct.

In a country where Rate Parity does restrict the hotel, I don't look for a lower price, I look for more value. Most of the time, that translates to an upgrade. In the case of our visit starting this week to Switzerland, the hotel we like does not give the OTA's access to all their rooms. That allows them to ignore Rate Parity on those other rooms and put any price they want on them. So, when I call the hotel in a situation like your current one, I make it clear in one simple sentence like, 'Hi, I'm calling to make a reservation, I see you have rooms on X OTA for Y dollars per night but I would prefer to book direct with you, so what can you do for me if I book direct with you?' Most Front Desk agents have far more discretion than many people realize. So that's when they say, well I can throw in this extra or give you this upgrade in room, etc. In the case of the hotel we are going to this week, we will pay the same price for the room per night as the OTAs have for a BASIC double room but in fact we will be given a class of room 2 classes higher. Having stayed at this hotel before, we know that is the difference between a large closet of a room and a much larger room with a much better view. A case of good, better, best. When I wrote in the OP a difference of 16%, I was in fact being conservative in how much difference it makes.

A call is not likely to take 15 minutes, I would expect less than 5 minutes as it did for our current booking. Another factor that will matter though is how long is your stay for. So I'm adding a factor yet again for your particular example and my particular example. If you are only staying 1 night, you have little leverage to work with in negotiating. If you are staying for a week and it is the hotel's slow month, you have much more leverage to work with. We are staying for 7 nights and it is a slow month for them as it is between summer and winter seasons. 

People who are staying one night on business travel may not want to spend time picking the right hotel. Any chain hotel will do for a night I suppose although even then I could argue they could do better for the same money if they wanted to. On our return journey, we will be spending a night in Zurich because of a morning flight back to Canada. An OTA would give you a room at the hotel we will stay in there, for the same price as we are paying. But, breakfast at that hotel is 20 SF (26.77 CAD) per person. I called and booked and got breakfast included. That's an easy $50+ savings, just for making a phone call.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You see, I found Expedia gave me a list of all the hotels in the area. I could then go through and look at what each place offered, it’s location, and the prices all in one place. I didn’t pick based on the lowest price, I wanted certain features, a certain room type, a good location, parking, food, etc. Since I don’t know which hotels are in the area, this was a real value to me. I could also see ratings and reviews, but I don’t put much heed into those. 

It would have been nice if it was easier to book several hotels together as a trip instead of having to book each one before you could book the next. 

That being said, I was also able to easily take advantage of a price change which I wouldn’t have known about by calling direct. I had a very good deal to begin with, it got even better yesterday. I may even check a few more times before I get to the hotel. It only takes a few seconds. 

I was quite happy with the way it worked out and, in my opinion, I got better value from it than had I called each hotel directly. That was the point you were trying to make right? To me, I got a better value from using Expedia than I would have calling direct.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I could also point out another trip I had earlier this year. Expedia gave me all the flight options letting me see departures, number of stops, prices, etc. Then again I could see all the hotels and their features in one place for easy comparison, and finally all the car bookings available. The car booking allowed me to get a full sized car for less than the price of the cheapest car at the competition. They also gave me a discount to some events I wanted to attend. 

Again the features, ease of use and convenience gave me greater value than calling all the airlines, hotels and car rental agencies separately. I got the free parking, free wifi, free breakfast, etc. 

I did call a travel agent for that trip and they couldn’t match the prices I got even at the same locations it was significantly more expensive.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> You see, I found Expedia gave me a list of all the hotels in the area. I could then go through and look at what each place offered, it’s location, and the prices all in one place. I didn’t pick based on the lowest price, I wanted certain features, a certain room type, a good location, parking, food, etc. Since I don’t know which hotels are in the area, this was a real value to me. I could also see ratings and reviews, but I don’t put much heed into those.
> 
> It would have been nice if it was easier to book several hotels together as a trip instead of having to book each one before you could book the next.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying but unless you actually call a hotel, you don't KNOW if they would have given you a better offer. You are simply ASSUMING you got the best offer you could.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> I could also point out another trip I had earlier this year. Expedia gave me all the flight options letting me see departures, number of stops, prices, etc. Then again I could see all the hotels and their features in one place for easy comparison, and finally all the car bookings available. The car booking allowed me to get a full sized car for less than the price of the cheapest car at the competition. They also gave me a discount to some events I wanted to attend.
> 
> Again the features, ease of use and convenience gave me greater value than calling all the airlines, hotels and car rental agencies separately. I got the free parking, free wifi, free breakfast, etc.
> 
> I did call a travel agent for that trip and they couldn’t match the prices I got even at the same locations it was significantly more expensive.


You do realize I hope that an Online Travel Agent (OTA) which is what Expedia is and a bricks and mortar travel agency are basically the same thing. They both get paid commission out of YOUR pocket. Does common sense not say to you that if you eliminate a middle man in any transaction, there is a difference in what the seller will actually be paid and therefore in what price you might actually be able to negotiate as a direct buyer?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OK Just a Guy, out of curiousity I have just gone on Expedia, your preferred site and checked the price on the hotel we will be staying at. The hotel has 3 classes of rooms as I previously mentioned. Standard, Classic and Panorama (as the hotel calls them). When I booked the OTAs still had Standard rooms available, now they are gone. So the lowest price Expedia is quoting me today is $1713 for 7 nights in a Classic room while when I booked, there were still Standard rooms available for around $1300. If the link I am going to provide here works, you will also see the Panorama rooms (or Double Room, Mountain View) as Expedia calls them at $2008 for 7 nights. I am paying exactly 1019 CHF which is exactly $1363.47 CAD at today's exchange rate, for 7 nights in a Panorama room. 

Now you tell me, would booking with Expedia get me a better deal? https://www.expedia.ca/Wiesen-Hotel...206&top_cur=CAD&rfrr=HSR&pwa_ts=1570484251174

So, Expedia $2008, my price $1363.47. Umm, I make that $644.53 cheaper doing it my way. If Expedia still showed Standard rooms available, you would have been able to book one of them for that same $1300 figure but it would not have been the same value at all obviously. One 5 minute phone call got me a far superior room for the same price as the cheapest room. Expedia would NEVER have got me that.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

See you all later, time to pack my bag for tomorrow morning. Back in 10 days or so.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Longtimeago said:


> I understand what you are saying but unless you actually call a hotel, you don't KNOW if they would have given you a better offer. You are simply ASSUMING you got the best offer you could.


No, I’m not assuming anything, I said I got the best value in my opinion. You originally changed the topic from price to value. I don’t mind paying a bit extra to save time and for convenience. I did check the hotel’s website and the price was more than double. Did I call, no. Do I want to waste my time doing so, no. Can the one hotel beat a free stay, not a chance. I doubt if one solution works best all the time. You’re assuming calling the hotel is always cheaper, it wasn’t a few years ago when I booked a hotel. I used to call them direct, but the online booking was cheaper in that case. I think $82/night vs. $172/night (the discounted rate on the hotel’s website) is pretty good. Is it worth it to save what a couple of bucks, since that’s a pretty low rate, isn’t worth the time. My original booking was around $100/night. 

The value to me comes in showing all the properties and their services, seeing pictures of all the places, showing the prices, etc. All in one spot. Calling a bunch of hotels, airlines, car rental places, etc. Takes a lot more time. Are they making money? probably. Are they giving me a service? Definitely. Should they be compensated for it? Why not.

You, yourself said it’s not about the lowest price, it’s about the value.

Update: Expedia just sent me a $10/day food voucher for my trip.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Update: Just returned from Switzerland, had great weather in the 20s for hiking. Welcomed at the hotel and treated almost as family returning. Even the mailman who drops in to the hotel every morning for a coffee when making his rounds, recognized us and welcomed us back.

Now if we could just find a way to eliminate 'jet lag'. As we get older, the 6 hour time difference takes longer and longer to get over. I felt off for 3 days but I guess it is the price we have to pay.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Update:
> 
> Now if we could just find a way to eliminate 'jet lag'. As we get older, the 6 hour time difference takes longer and longer to get over. I felt off for 3 days but I guess it is the price we have to pay.


....another reason for the uncouth, the unwashed, amongst us, to like Florida as a snowbird destination....


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> ....another reason for the uncouth, the unwashed, amongst us, to like Florida as a snowbird destination....


Everything comes at a price jargey3000. Jet lag is just one of those things we have to 'pay' if we want to travel farther. 

Having to 'snowbird' in Florida is the price you pay for being limited in whatever way to such a choice. Lack of funds, lack of imagination, lack of interests, lack of a larger comfort zone, etc.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Everything comes at a price jargey3000. Jet lag is just one of those things we have to 'pay' if we want to travel farther.
> 
> Having to 'snowbird' in Florida is the price you pay for being limited in whatever way to such a choice. Lack of funds, lack of imagination, lack of interests, lack of a larger comfort zone, etc.


....hahah...I lack none of those.....but I DO lack jet lag......
....maybe next time I will branch out.....I'm thinkin' Vegas, baby! yeahhhhh....Vegas!!....
cant get much more cultured than that!!


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....or maybe I'll go down to Oz.....
https://news.google.com/articles/CA...6f-ICzDjj4gDMJTFnwY?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA:en


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> ....or maybe I'll go down to Oz.....
> https://news.google.com/articles/CA...6f-ICzDjj4gDMJTFnwY?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA:en


But what would you do when you got there? They don't have any 'early bird special' dinner prices or 'all you can eat' buffets.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I booked an all inclusive hotel in Maya directly with the hotel. It was cheaper than going through expedia or the like.
Oddly, it was also cheaper than booking a package vacation with WJ vacations. Using the same room class, same WJ flights, etc.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

nobleea said:


> I booked an all inclusive hotel in Maya directly with the hotel. It was cheaper than going through expedia or the like.
> Oddly, it was also cheaper than booking a package vacation with WJ vacations. Using the same room class, same WJ flights, etc.


How did you book the flights? Direct with Westjet I'm guessing.

There are times when you don't get a cheaper price by booking direct with a hotel, in areas where the OTAs have Rate Parity agreements for example. But any hotel insider will tell you that the TREATMENT you get will be better if you book direct. OTA bookings are more likely to be 'bumped', more likely to get the room by the ice machine or elevator, etc. Direct bookings are more likely to get an upgrade or other perks. People simply don't realize that if a hotel is losing up to 30% of the guest's payment, common sense tells you there can and will be differences in how they are treated.

OTAs win because most people are just lazy. If you listen to those who work inside the hotel industry, they will invariably tell you to book direct with the hotel to get the best value.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwiq_-iBhLDlAhWoY98KHUCzCdgQ4dUDCAs&uact=5


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> How did you book the flights? Direct with Westjet I'm guessing.
> 
> There are times when you don't get a cheaper price by booking direct with a hotel, in areas where the OTAs have Rate Parity agreements for example. But any hotel insider will tell you that the TREATMENT you get will be better if you book direct. OTA bookings are more likely to be 'bumped', more likely to get the room by the ice machine or elevator, etc. Direct bookings are more likely to get an upgrade or other perks. People simply don't realize that if a hotel is losing up to 30% of the guest's payment, common sense tells you there can and will be differences in how they are treated.
> 
> ...


Yes, it was a bit unique since my wife is flying there to meet us from somewhere else and then we fly all back together. So WJ vacations could custom build a package for us, but it was cheaper if I just built the package myself by booking directly with WJ airlines and the hotel (and bypassing WJ vacations). Close to $1000 cheaper.


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## junior minor (Jun 5, 2019)

I will not be able to tell you if it's worth it because I never clicked on the ''book hotel and vehicle'' thumbnail yet I always functioned with the website called skyscanner.ca and I found the best prices to be on this. I would suggest you give it a try as well because you can save a lot with the flight ( for long distances where west jet doesn't necessarely go)


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

junior minor said:


> I will not be able to tell you if it's worth it because I never clicked on the ''book hotel and vehicle'' thumbnail yet I always functioned with the website called skyscanner.ca and I found the best prices to be on this. I would suggest you give it a try as well because you can save a lot with the flight ( for long distances where west jet doesn't necessarely go)


Umm, if you never try something junior minor, just HOW exactly do you KNOW you go the best prices? You can only know if you did if you COMPARE one thing to another. Or do you just take their word for it, 'we find you the best prices'. Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

This is a big IF and it depends. Where, time of year, ability of hotel management and/or front desk reservations folk to deviate from policy.

We just came back from a month in Greece and two weeks in Cyprus. We always prefer to deal direct but sometimes that does not make sense or not possible if there are time constraints.

Two of our accommodations....a condo on the island of Zakynthos. 350E on booking.com. We dealt with the owner direct...250E. A five day stay at a resort on Cyprus. We booked through a tour firm in the UK. Their price was 40 percent less than the best price that the resort was offering (we had a similar saving for on another 3 day resort stay on the same trip-booked with the same tour operator). 

We travel frequently enough to feel that there no firm rules. We have more success direct. Not always a price difference but often a value difference. Better room, perhaps a breakfast of some other freebe, better cancel policy etc, etc. And we have even more success in some countries and in some accommodation when we offer cash payment for a discount. Cash is KING.

Another oddity...we purchased air from Zakynthos to Athens. The best price????? Expedia of all places. Less than buying direct from Aegean/Olympic (as we had of five other flights) or from a discount carrier.. Not only was the fare about twenty percent less that the base fare we prices, is was a more expensive fare that included one piece each of checked baggage.  We only do carry on so we take the lowest economy fare on Aegean.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> This is a big IF and it depends. Where, time of year, ability of hotel management and/or front desk reservations folk to deviate from policy.
> 
> We just came back from a month in Greece and two weeks in Cyprus. We always prefer to deal direct but sometimes that does not make sense or not possible if there are time constraints.
> 
> ...


Yes, like anything else 'it depends' ian and nothing is a 100% of the time guarantee. As I have explained here already, something like a Rate Parity agreement can handcuff a hotel to a price. 

What gets me however is how many people just ASSUME they will get the best deal from an OTA when in fact that is simply not necessarily the case. What also gets me is how so many people don't seem to be able to distinguish between price and value. As you note, extra perks for booking direct are often provided even if the price is no lower than with an OTA. 

In some places such as Greece, cash is very much still king. There are many factors that are involved in a price we pay and the value we receive for our money. There is no one size fits all but there does seem to be a lot of people who THINK they are getting the best deal but have never actually done anything to find out if they are. My experience is that the more you travel, the more you discover that there is no short cut to finding the best value for your money. 

I also find that besides Rate Parity and how in some places it results in all the prices being the same regardless of how you book (note, that's price not value that will be the same), many people also have no idea of what Dynamic Pricing is and what it does. Prices can go up an down a great deal over time based on how fast/slow a flight fills up for example. On our recent flight to Zurich, we booked a return flight just one week out from our departure. We paid $1800 per person with extra legroom seats on an Air Canada 787-9 in row 18. Arguably the best value seats on that plane. Side note: The Air Canada extra legroom seats are superior to the British Airways Premium seats in terms of comfort. I've never sat on such a thin and butt hurting seat as on the BA 787-9. There is next to zero padding on their seats.

Just before our return flight, my wife went online to do an online check-in. While doing that she looked at how full the flight was to see if we might get lucky and have an empty seat beside us (we did have). At the same time she saw the ONE way flight back was $2700! Try explaining to people how a return flight can be $1800 two weeks in the past and then the one way can be a $1000 more a week later. The answer is of course Dynamic Pricing. 

Here's the interesting part that people can't understand. That flight was in fact quite empty in the back, I mean dozens of empty seats. So the average person looks at that and says, 'hey they have all those empty seats only a couple of days before the flight, they will be selling them cheap to fill them'. But NO, that is not what they are doing, they are putting the price UP because the seats they will sell will be to people who need to fly NOW and cannot wait for a better price to come along. That's Dynamic Pricing, price on what the market will bear, not necessarily on how full a flight is etc. Book early, book late, it doesn't matter when you book, there is no 'sweet spot' in terms of time as many people believe. All there is, is a constantly changing price in real time based on a complicated algorithm that takes dozens of factors into consideration.

A new and scary change that is coming, is the use of your browsing history to customize what YOU as an INDIVIDUAL see on your booking screen. By tracking you, Air Canada or whoever will be able to see that you have looked at flights to Cyprus 5 times in the last month, you have looked at hotels there and car rental. They will then show you a price for a flight based on that extrapolated data as to how serious your intent to go there is. In other words, look 5 times and your price will go up, while someone who looks once at the same time as you look for that 5th time, will see a lower price. This is called 'discriminatory pricing.' You can read more here:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ur-browsing-history-could-mean-rip-off-prices

When doing some travel research including checking prices, ALWAYS clear Cookies from your Browsing History before going back later to re-check anything. Cookies are your enemy.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes, I read that. I use Zenmate from time to time.

We saw a huge difference in rental car prices. We did rentals in Toronto, three in Greece, and one in Cyprus. We booked, then checked. Some rates went up, others down. Overall we saved about 30 percent by re-booking. I only checked very occasionally. Usually autoeurope has been the best but not always this time. It was a combo of direct with agencies, one through Aegean Airlines, and only one through autoeurope. Largest deltas were in Cyprus for a two week rental. Anywhere from $320 CAD to $800 plus CAD at the major agencies. The rental in Toronto was the same. Costco's price was by far the best.

A hotelier in Nicosia told us that booking.com tried to prevent hotels from offering lower rates for direct billing. He said a local hotel took them to the European court to contest this. The hotel was successful according to this hotel owner.


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## Calmoney (Dec 19, 2013)

I have used both, direct and Expedia etc. Within north america and Europe. I have found that it is about 50/50.
With some smaller or independent hotels, they are more willing to deal on the phone, but usually just a "token" amount less.

Due to an elderly mother, I always book using the the free cancellation, which generally costs a little more.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Interesting twist to my trip. One of my hotels tried to charge me $20/night more than what I’d gotten off of Expedia.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Calmoney said:


> I have used both, direct and Expedia etc. Within north america and Europe. I have found that it is about 50/50.
> With some smaller or independent hotels, they are more willing to deal on the phone, but usually just a "token" amount less.
> 
> Due to an elderly mother, I always book using the the free cancellation, which generally costs a little more.


I always book direct with the hotel by phone Calmoney and I NEVER accept any kind of cancellation penalty. I expect to be able to cancel a hotel booking up until 2pm on the day of the reservation. That's how hotels always worked in the past and that's how I still work today. Even with hotels that quote me a 'non-refundable' price, I simply say, 'no, I can't accept that condition.' They waive it without any issue. But that is when talking to a real live person at the hotel, on the phone!!! So no, I do not 'pay more' to be able to cancel. Nor should you if you just phone and tell them your issue (elderly mother) and that you will not pay more to be able to cancel. They are free to 'take it or leave it' Calmoney.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> Interesting twist to my trip. One of my hotels tried to charge me $20/night more than what I’d gotten off of Expedia.


What does that mean? Did you have a booking confirmation? If so, the price would be on it. Or are you saying you looked up a price on Expedia and then walked in a hotel door and asked for a price?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I booked my hotel through Expedia, when I was leaving the hotel, they gave me the bill where I saw they billed me $20/night more. I showed them my Expedia booking and they tried to claim they’d made a mistake somehow and would correct it.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I guess I am missing some point you are trying to make Just a Guy. They made mistake and were willing to correct it. Mistakes do happen, what's the big deal if any? 

You say 'tried to claim' as if somehow you suspect they intentionally tried to charge you more. Do you really think so? Are you really that mistrustful of other people?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

They Didn’t actually correct it, I caught it on my credit card and had to call them again to correct it. They really wanted to charge me more from what I can see. One time would be an accident, ignoring it and still charging I’d call intentional.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> They Didn’t actually correct it, I caught it on my credit card and had to call them again to correct it. They really wanted to charge me more from what I can see. One time would be an accident, ignoring it and still charging I’d call intentional.


I think you are being a bit too cynical and expecting the worst Just a Guy. Mistakes happen. In any case, it has nothing to do with booking direct vs. with an OTA.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The booking through Expedia gave me an advocate and a third party independent witness as well as proof that I was correct. Doesn’t look to me like the hotel was happy with the price and tried to change it hoping I wouldn’t notice...twice. 

Since Expedia sends the negotiated price to the hotel before I even arrive, can you explain the “mistake”? The only one I can see is the hotel didn’t like the price and hoped I wouldn’t notice their changes. 

As a side note, I continued to check the price as my trip got closer, it went up $75/night from the price I paid.

I also had no issues with my other two hotels, including my free one.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We never shop for flights on a carrier website. We typically use itmatrix or skyscanner (better for regional and discount carriers). Even when they list flights, prices, etc, we sometimes still have to shop either with the airline or with the internet shops to nail down the specific price, routing, and fare code that itmatrix spits out. There can be, as we have experienced, differences in all three between the carrier, expedia, travelocity, orbitz, etc. -primarily in price and routing.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> The booking through Expedia gave me an advocate and a third party independent witness as well as proof that I was correct. Doesn’t look to me like the hotel was happy with the price and tried to change it hoping I wouldn’t notice...twice.
> 
> Since Expedia sends the negotiated price to the hotel before I even arrive, can you explain the “mistake”? The only one I can see is the hotel didn’t like the price and hoped I wouldn’t notice their changes.
> 
> ...


Some really weird thinking there Just a Guy. Did Expedia do any 'advocating' for you or did you as you said, deal with it yourself? Where was this 'witness' and what did this witness, witness? 

Look, this is real simple. You had a booking confirmation with a price on it. There was never any question as to what price you should be charged but what there was and people seem to forget, is several computer programs involved. Guess what, where there is a computer involved, there is a probability of errors occurring. That's most likely what happened, not any actual living being anywhere 'trying to change it hoping you wouldn't notice.' Let's face it Just a Guy, YOUR booking is just not that important to any given hotel and to suggest someone would try to change it for $20 is nearing paranoia.

It was most likely a computer error. Ever heard that term before? You added a third party into the transaction and of course that adds room for errors. If I call a hotel directly, make a booking and get an e-mail confirmation from them, there is ONE system involved, the hotels own system. 

Take a look at what using Expedia cost someone here because of a computer error and how adding a third party didn't give them an 'advocate' but instead let them be used like a ping pong ball for the OTA and hotel to bounce blame back and forth: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/aug/15/expedia-hotel-book-non-refundable-error-refund

Or how even a travel industry professional found dealing with them, here: https://www.camelsandchocolate.com/turkish-airlines-expedia/

For me it's very simple Just a Guy. In any transaction, there is a buyer and a seller, two parties. Common sense tells me that every time I add a third party into a transaction, I add room for problems.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You seem to ignore the fact that I corrected, or tried to correct, the issue right at the hotel as I was leaving...no computer involved, talked to a person. We aren’t talking $20, we’re talking $20/night adds up to a lot more money. Oh, and despite talking to the manager last week where they said they’d correct it, I still don’t see the refund on my credit card. Initial mistake was probably a computer error. The two subsequent contacts were with the front desk and a manager on the phone. Neither one is a computer error...neither one has corrected the issue yet. 

While I haven’t called Expedia to advocate in this issue, yet, I have called them in the past to sort out other issues. It was a much better experience than I’m having talking to the hotel direct. Your right, they don’t seem to care much about my problem, but when Expedia calls them, who represent a lot of business, they may listen better. On a different trip I booked an event that turned out not to be running the day we got there. In talking to the staff, they didn’t care and didn’t offer refunds. I called Expedia and, in a few minutes they got me my refund from the company.

In my experience, having run a business where I can negotiate large orders, I get better pricing than a person who only orders small amounts.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> You seem to ignore the fact that I corrected, or tried to correct, the issue right at the hotel as I was leaving...no computer involved, talked to a person. We aren’t talking $20, we’re talking $20/night adds up to a lot more money. Oh, and despite talking to the manager last week where they said they’d correct it, I still don’t see the refund on my credit card. Initial mistake was probably a computer error. The two subsequent contacts were with the front desk and a manager on the phone. Neither one is a computer error...neither one has corrected the issue yet.
> 
> While I haven’t called Expedia to advocate in this issue, yet, I have called them in the past to sort out other issues. It was a much better experience than I’m having talking to the hotel direct. Your right, they don’t seem to care much about my problem, but when Expedia calls them, who represent a lot of business, they may listen better. On a different trip I booked an event that turned out not to be running the day we got there. In talking to the staff, they didn’t care and didn’t offer refunds. I called Expedia and, in a few minutes they got me my refund from the company.
> 
> In my experience, having run a business where I can negotiate large orders, I get better pricing than a person who only orders small amounts.


What gets me in situations like this is how people see it as being about the hotel when in fact, they chose to do business with a third party. You did NOT make a reservation with the hotel, you made a reservation with Expedia. Why then is Expedia not the FIRST place you turn to when you have a problem? You are Expedia's customer and only INDIRECTLY the hotel's customer. Expedia is the hotels' customer.

You chose to put a third party into the equation. A third party that is taking up to 30% of the money you pay. You chose when doing that, to pay the hotel up to 30% less, why then would you think the hotel would care much about you? You're not a good customer for them, only for Expedia. So go deal with Expedia who you are so enamoured of. Let them get your money back for you.

There is a buyer and a seller, you are the buyer and Expedia is the seller, not the hotel. The hotel is selling to Expedia, not you. You are not the hotel's customer, you are Expedia's customer. Expedia is the hotel's customer. 

Think about buying a shirt at The Bay and when you get it home and unwrap it, it has a flaw in it. Do you phone the shirt manufacturer and ask them to solve your problem? Why not, it's their shirt after all. But no, you take the shirt back to The Bay and ask them to exchange it or give you a refund. You only go direct to the product manufacturer IF you bought it directly from them. Otherwise you go to the company you bought from. In the case of the shirt, you bought from The Bay, in the case of the hotel you bought from Expedia.

For some reason, people don't seem to want to acknowledge that when they brought in a third party, they changed the transaction in regards to who is the buyer and who is the seller and who the buyer should go back to if there is a problem.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You’re right. I called Expedia and they cleared it up. I guess I was silly talking to the manager and the staff with a proven contract. Silly me. Just because they had a copy of the contract I was foolish to believe they could actually read it. All that third party stuff.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> You’re right. I called Expedia and they cleared it up. I guess I was silly talking to the manager and the staff with a proven contract. Silly me. Just because they had a copy of the contract I was foolish to believe they could actually read it. All that third party stuff.


NO, what you were silly about is in not knowing whose customer you were and were not. You dld not have a contract with the hotel, you had a contract with Expedia. Duhhhh.

If you CHOOSE to do business with an OTA, then do business with them, NOT try to then do business with the hotel. It's foolish to believe you can actually read on your contract, who you are doing business with differently than you are. A confirmation from Expedia is a confirmation from EXPEDIA, not the hotel.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I wanted to share an experience that illustrates that you really can sometimes find better prices online, than directly with a hotel.

I'm occasionally booking a hotel near my home to use as additional office space. It's a place I go to regularly, so the staff knows me. Today I looked at hotels.com to see what kinds of deals might exist, and found a promotional rate for this hotel at $111/night. I'm also on the hotel's mailing list, and know of a promotion they've been running. So I checked their site for their promotion (for locals) and found that was $129/night.

Then I went directly to the hotel to talk with them, and showed them the hotels.com rate. They said there is no way they can match that, and they figure the web site must be taking a loss on it. The staff suggested I book with hotels.com at the price that's 14% lower than their absolute minimum.

This also isn't the first time I've seen this, so it's not a Covid thing. Sometimes you really can find great deals at places like Hotels.com and Booking.com.

Oh and on other days, I'm seeing this hotel as low as $97... ludicrous pricing in a big city, obviously. For those of you who are also working from home, if you need a change of scenery, I suggest taking a look at some of your local hotels.


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