# Reminder to anyone driving in the USA



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Though I live in the US now, as a Canadian it's easy to get complacent and forget about some US-specific rules for interacting with the police. I experienced this again last night, and I've now noticed a pattern that US police (particularly in small towns) will pull over many cars late at night for bogus reasons. They usually pull me over citing speed, but now I realize they make this up because it's an excuse to examine you. I never get a ticket. This was close to midnight on Friday, and I'm sure it's part of checking who's going through their town. It's also an opportunity to check for suspicious things (e.g. someone who's drunk or high). I'm white by the way, so it's not racial.

Now to the important parts. Things to remember when you get pulled over by US police:

1. Immediately pull over and turn OFF the engine.
2. Realize that these are often routine stops. Stay calm, don't fidget.
3. Roll down all windows and turn on dome lights at night.
4. Realize that they will be approaching you ready to draw their weapon. Act smooth and calm.
5. Put both hands on the steering wheel. Don't reach for anything until told to.
6. Always keep both hands visible and make smooth movements. Smile and talk politely.
7. If you are not white, be doubly careful about these rules!

*Also see this excellent list of tips for traffic stop Dos and Donts
*http://www.dmv.org/articles/traffic-stop-dos-and-donts/

I was sleepy last night and at one point forgot about the hands, reaching into my pocket. This was a big no-no ... in the USA this kind of thing can get you killed. And yes this is different than Canada. The police in the US are way, way edgier (and for good reason).

It's important to think of the state of mind of a police officer who pulls you over at night. He's already very anxious, and in crazy old USA these things sometimes turn into shoot-outs and cops get killed in routine stops. Remember, in the US, lots of people are armed, so the cop is approaching you as if you are someone who may try to kill him. He's also thinking that you may be on meth or some drug. The cops have legitimate fears. But as a result, they are walking up to your car with their hand ready to draw their gun the instant they feel any doubt or fear.

If you are traveling with companions who have any kind of mental issues or handicaps, I suggest explaining these things to them carefully so that a stop by the police doesn't freak them out. Maybe even act out a scenario with them, role playing, to show how it works. Stick to the calm situation of course... the point is that if you act cool and calm, the stops are harmless
.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I should add that I think American police's caution and suspicion is justified. There's a big meth problem around here. At a gas station shortly before this stop, I noticed two men who I wanted to get the hell away from fast ... the driver was clearly high (could be meth) and his passenger looked really dangerous, wearing baggy clothes with his hands in his pocket. Always looking around him and fidgeting. Both men were white.

Again remember in the US that lots of people are armed, and there is a much higher violent crime rate than in Canada. I can't stress enough how many people are armed.

The police who are pulling me and everyone else over in their town are trying to catch guys like those. Sure, the cop pulls me over and finds a harmless sleepy Canadian. The next car he pulls over could have those two guys in it, one of them on meth and the other carrying a handgun. And you know what? I absolutely want the cops to catch those guys.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Another key thing about driving in the USA is to check any thoughts of road rage, fingering someone, taking out agression on anyone too. That driver you just ragged on could have an automatic weapon on the seat next to him. I spent enough years living in the USA to know not to piss off any drivers.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Agreed! That's a good reminder. Geez I really hope we are adequately screening American drivers coming into Canada.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Agreed! That's a good reminder. Geez I really hope we are adequately screening American drivers coming into Canada.


I sure hope so. 

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-n...border-americans-warned-to-leave-guns-at-home


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

LOL.........Many years ago I drove through one of those swinging red lights in Louisville, Kentucky.

A car drove up beside me at the next light and a guy started yelling at me.

I showed him the finger and he showed me his badge.

I guess my facial reaction was enough to make him laugh, yell a warning and drive away. I think he had someplace else he had to be.

I am older and wiser now.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Agreed! That's a good reminder. Geez I really hope we are adequately screening American drivers coming into Canada.


Don't they drive on the left hand side of the road? Should be easy to pick them out.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I remember when the American police were driving muscle cars so they could catch speeders.

In Ontario, the OPP was chasing Plymouth Road Runners and Barracudas in their Ford family cars.......beep, beep.....


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

james4beach said:


> 3. Immediately grab your driver's license and insurance, before the cop approaches.


I think that's a very bad idea. Even before they get out of their car, if they see you reaching for something (in your pocket, or on the next seat), they're going to be antsy.

I'd wait 'til I was asked for them. Then tell them where they are, get their OK before you reach for it.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

At night, roll all the windows down (especially if tinted) and turn the interior light on.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

That's a good point about rolling all the windows down. Hmm... how about the reaching for driver's license thing? Here's a guide from the DMV

This seems like a good overall checklist:
http://www.dmv.org/articles/traffic-stop-dos-and-donts/

This also says, as Retired Peasant mentioned, to not preemptively grab license & reg, but instead to wait with both hands on the steering wheel until asked for them.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I've learned some new things from this. I need to make sure I roll the windows down and turn on the interior lights


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I wouldnt reach for anything until the cop asks you to do so. 

Couple yrs ago I got stopped in some town in SD. I was driving a rental with an out of state plate. Like what a flag that already is. I hesitated at a stop sign because I was lost, then turned the wrong way and had to do U turn in a parking lot to get back on the right track. That happens every day in canada. Here it was enough to get stopped and questioned for. As one officer approached my window, the other came up the passenger side with hand on side arm.

Also, why do people who are stopped and asked to get out make these erratic movements. If you are asked to exist the vehicle, do so cleanly and get on the ground if asked. Dont turn sideways and shuffle away or spin around or walk backwards then forwards. I notice just about everyone getting shot did something stupid like this first. The guy that got shot in his car a few weeks back first told the office her had a gun in the back seat. I mean why do that? Just get out of the car and diffuse the situation first instead of announcing a false intention.

Also, US cops are jittery, but they arent likely to have you in the bead of their gun unless you have disobeyed a direct order. SO just follow orders and sort it at the courthouse later.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Maybe you guys should lighten up a bit-over the last 40 years, has even a single Canadian citizen been shot by US police? Unless you guys are planning a bank robbery, I think you will be OK.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Hmm maybe I keep getting pulled over because I'm driving these rental cars. I seem to get pulled over a lot (but never ticketed)... whereas in Canada I virtually never got pulled over.

Yeah I'm convinced to not reach for anything any more. Just pull over and keep your hands on the wheel, and only reach for things once they ask. You're right.

As for people and the guns, I think someone who is carrying a gun (say a concealed carry permit) is instructed to tell police about the existence of the weapon so that the cop will not be surprised when it is spotted or suddenly emerges, e.g. a handgun in the glove compartment. Crazy Americans... seriously.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Nelley said:


> Maybe you guys should lighten up a bit-over the last 40 years, has even a single Canadian citizen been shot by US police? Unless you guys are planning a bank robbery, I think you will be OK.


Admittedly I'm overly anxious about such things, but there's value in understanding the correct strategies to minimize trouble. I also learned about all the right ways to handle border security and that's very useful as a guy who's constantly hopping across US/Canada. Knowing the right things to do minimizes stress for me.

Same with the police. I seriously doubt American police will shoot me, but training myself on these simple things will minimize stress.

The goal here is to not have a bad day. I also don't want to be forced to exit the vehicle or be searched. This has never happened to me, and I'd rather it doesn't.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Nice list. it's like "defencive Driving", only it's "Defensive behaviour when stopped by police". I agree with thsoe who say you should not make a hasty grab for license and permit. That already jumpy cop walking up to your in the dark car will only see you making a sudden move to grab something. 

Opening the windows and turning the dome light on is not a bad idea, if you can figure out how to do it without seeming to search for something. The fad for over-tinted windows (and wouldn't that make another thread) makes things worse, because the cop has no idea if there's someone in the back seat taking aim.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> The goal here is to not have a bad day. I also don't want to be forced to exit the vehicle or be searched. This has never happened to me, and I'd rather it doesn't.


Exactly! US police are getting ever more jumpy and trigger happy given much of the civil population has lost respect (some of it deservedly) for law enforcement. I think the trend will continue to get much worse before it will turn around, perhaps not in my lifetime. The slippery slope appears to have no bottom, especially if a bigger more aggressive version of the Black Panthers rises from the ashes. "To serve and protect" could become "enforce at any cost".


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Hmm maybe I keep getting pulled over because I'm driving these rental cars. I seem to get pulled over a lot (but never ticketed)... whereas in Canada I virtually never got pulled over.
> 
> Yeah I'm convinced to not reach for anything any more. Just pull over and keep your hands on the wheel, and only reach for things once they ask. You're right.
> 
> As for people and the guns, I think someone who is carrying a gun (say a concealed carry permit) is instructed to tell police about the existence of the weapon so that the cop will not be surprised when it is spotted or suddenly emerges, e.g. a handgun in the glove compartment. Crazy Americans... seriously.


My point is that over the same last 40 years, I bet I have seen hundreds of reports of Canadians dying in car accidents in the USA-hundreds to zero shot by cop-so you might have your safety parameters off kilter a bit IMO.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I updated my first post with the updated suggestions and link to the guide from a web site. Let me know if you think further edits should be made.

Yes, the citizen/police dynamic is becoming very different in the USA than in Canada. This was the point of my post... as Canadians we have to be aware of this cultural difference. Many Americans have this mindset that big brother government/police are their enemy. It's not just a black thing.

The USA is going to keep deteriorating like this.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I updated my first post with the updated suggestions and link to the guide from a web site. Let me know if you think further edits should be made.
> 
> Yes, the citizen/police dynamic is becoming very different in the USA than in Canada. This was the point of my post... as Canadians we have to be aware of this cultural difference. Many Americans have this mindset that big brother government/police are their enemy. It's not just a black thing.
> 
> The USA is going to keep deteriorating like this.


For 2016, 70% of the handgun murders in Toronto are unsolved, up from 29% in 2012. It is not just a USA thing, it is now also a Toronto thing.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I agree with others here even though not many Canadians have been shot by US police. Best to do what they say and treat them like military by saying yes sir or no sir.

Another thing of course is don't keep a lot of cash in your car because it could be confiscated for the police retirement fund. All the police have to say is I smell weed or something and then they take your cash. You can get it back but it will be a hassle to do so.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

This is nothing new. In the 60's, my dad, an NYPD cop, told me all this about shutting off the engine, keeping your hands on the wheel, not reaching for anything unless the officer asks for it - and even then, tell him it's in the glove box, or console before reaching for it ( slowly ).

I had an acquaintance in the OPP. He told me that once he was at a training course that he was told was just to check his procedures for traffic stops. When he approached the driver's window of the car he was instructed to check-out, the driver aimed a gun at him. He said that for an instant he was so surprised, he didn't know what to do. Had it been a real situation instead of a training scenario, he would have been shot before he even could react to seeing the gun. That's not a situation I would want to be in, and I can understand the police officer's apprehension when approaching a vehicle.


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