# Condo Corp take away Recycling Bin?



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I like to leave my blue recycling bins beside the garage (outside) as it is convenient, out of the way and will not smell up my garage.

The garage is full of stuff, including my car, and it is a pain to store these bins in there. During the summer months, the garage gets extremely warm and the bins can begin to smell up the garage as there is excess heat and no airflow.

Having the bins outside lets me easily add recycling to the bins as the week goes on (newspapers, water bottles, etc). I can simply bring items out of the house when I go to work, for example.

Anyway - I get this notice in the mail from the condominium corporation stating that if I do not place the bins inside my residence immediately they will REMOVE my recycling bins.

Can they do this? What would I do with my recycling then? I thought recycling is part of the city and not part of the condominium corporation?

If the bins are on my property, then I don't really see a problem.

Surely, it's nowhere near as bad as the neighbourhood dogs who **** and piss on the grass, now is it?

I know this seems like a petty issue, but I really don't want the bins inside. Can they actually take my recycling bins away from me? I am almost tempted to leave the bins there just based on principle.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

With condo living, anything outside your walls in considered common property. This means that the condo has a say in how things look outside your walls...this includes your balcony (which many people don't realize).

Not only can they take your bins away, they can charge you to do it, and place a lien on your property if you don't pay it. You have much more say as to what yo can do inside your walls, so store it there if you want. Others around you have decided that they don't like the look/smell of the bins and have voted to not have them outside. Welcome to the world of communal living.

The best way to "fix" the issue is to get on the board and help make policy.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> With condo living, anything outside your walls in considered common property. This means that the condo has a say in how things look outside your walls...this includes your balcony (which many people don't realize).
> 
> Not only can they take your bins away, they can charge you to do it, and place a lien on your property if you don't pay it. You have much more say as to what yo can do inside your walls, so store it there if you want. Others around you have decided that they don't like the look/smell of the bins and have voted to not have them outside. Welcome to the world of communal living.
> 
> The best way to "fix" the issue is to get on the board and help make policy.


+1 ^

Condos are an enigma. I used to own a unit in a condominium corp in Mississauga. 

Constant issues with other residents and the CC board of directors over fences, owners doing things
without permission from the board, and this.. and that. 
But, at least the garbage was taken to a enclosed dumpster in a fenced off area there. There were no garages
in mine, just assigned parking spaces. 

As far as I remember..about the only thing you own in a condo,* is the space inside your unit* and the *inside walls* and I'm not sure if that even includes the drywall..maybe just the paint on the wall.

Anything you do* outside the inside walls is COMMON ELEMENTS*, and actually belong to the Condominum Corp..although they will allow in some cases planting flowers next to Your foundation..with permission of course from the CC board.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Thank you, gents.

I moved the bins in this morning after quickly reading your responses.

This will definitely be the last time I buy a condo of any kind. What a mistake.

Last week I was on vacation in BC. While in BC, I got a notice (at my house, that I obviously wasn't at) that they would be paving the condo roads. The notice was a 3 Day notice only (delivered on the 18th for paving on the 21st).
I come back from BC and find my truck is towed and sitting on the local city road. Battery is dead and the doors won't open. Had to call CAA to get back into the truck and get it off the road.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

To be fair, I should also point out that home ownership, while "better", can have the same problems. The city has a number of by laws that they can enforce if your neighbours complain. If you have stuff in your yard that is "unsightly", or "messy" garbage, your neighbours can complain and the city will send you similar letters...and, the truck thing can happen with a house as well.

As I recall, in Vancouver, you can't even cut down an old tree in your yard without a permit or you'll get a huge fine...some cities are a lot worse than others.

If you get the wrong neighbours, life can be an adventure...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I think you have a case for lack of notice on the paving. I would write a letter to the Board stating that 2 weeks notice is the minimum needed. I would also encourage that notices also be sent by email.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> To be fair, I should also point out that home ownership, while "better", can have the same problems. The city has a number of by laws that they can enforce if your neighbours complain. If you have stuff in your yard that is "unsightly", or "messy" garbage, your neighbours can complain and the city will send you similar letters...and, the truck thing can happen with a house as well.
> 
> As I recall, in Vancouver, you can't even cut down an old tree in your yard without a permit or you'll get a huge fine...some cities are a lot worse than others.


Every city has bylaws. here in Ottawa, you are not supposed to bring your garbage to the curb until after 6pm the night before the morning of collection. 

Condo Corps probably have a few more. I remember when I bought my condo in Mississauga..we were given a long list of DO'S AND DON'Ts as condo owners.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Every condo complex has bylaws and rules. Read yours.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

You do it in the country, they like it just fine. You do it in the city it's a twenty dollar fine.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> Every city has bylaws. here in Ottawa, you are not supposed to bring your garbage to the curb until after 6pm the night before the morning of collection.


Our condo townhouse complex picks up garbage/recycling Fridays around 7:00 a.m. and transfers everything streetside.......some residents put theirs out the afternoon/evening before; since I'm up early I do ours that morning............no problem either way as for some reason we don't have marauding feral/wildlife to rip it all to shreds...........unlike the Beach area in Toronto (non-condo) where I lived some 35 years ago, where there were likely more ***** & skunks than people.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> either way as for some reason we don't have marauding feral/wildlife to rip it all to shreds...........unlike the Beach area in Toronto (non-condo) where I lived some 35 years ago, *where there were likely more ***** & skunks than people*.


We got both those "urban dwellers" living around me too. I'm at the edge of the city and very near the Ottawa green belt.
Skunks like to cross my back yard sometimes at night and once in the while in the daytime too.

I went out the other night to look for my kitty in my back yard.." Where are you kitty, kitty, kitty!", and shone my flash light to see another black kitty... with two white stripes on her back, going right past her.... and behind my garden shed.

Raccoons, they seem to prefer our area..lots of nice KFC chicken bones, left over pizza, in those green kitchen waste recycle pickup containers. 
Some of the larger females with kitts?...
know how to tip over a partially filled green box, figure out how to open the lid, and dump the contents of the green box in the laneway...YUMMM!!!...nice big mess to clean up..but after all, they are "country pickers"..with developed tastes for left over KFC , Pizza hut, McD's left over fries and other "gourmet treats" they find. 

Thank goodness our fast food industry is supporting their survival..:biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

There is nothing more terrifying than seeing rats the size of a kitten :eek2:... plenty of them in hogtown TO (not counting the ones at cityhall). :biggrin:


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> This will definitely be the last time I buy a condo of any kind. What a mistake.
> 
> Last week I was on vacation in BC. While in BC, I got a notice (at my house, that I obviously wasn't at) that they would be paving the condo roads. The notice was a 3 Day notice only (delivered on the 18th for paving on the 21st).
> I come back from BC and find my truck is towed and sitting on the local city road. Battery is dead and the doors won't open. Had to call CAA to get back into the truck and get it off the road.


I wanted to bump this thread.

I get home from work today and there is a letter from the city in the mail. I open it up. The issue date is September 12, 2014.
The letter says that I owe them $50 (payable by September 28) for a fine because my truck was unlawfully parked on the road on August 22, 2014 at 11:05am (When I was in BC). There was NO ticket left on my windshield or under my wiper. What gives?

If I can make myself clear - I am really getting pissed off.

The condo corp TOWED my truck without my consent or knowledge. They didn't even NOTIFY me that it was towed or WHERE it was towed to. I had to literally walk down the street to find it. They also did not provide ample notice that they would be repainting/paving the roads as their notice was sent 3 days before they actually completed the painting/paving. All of this time I was in BC, so I never received the letter until after I got home from BC (days after the entire incident).

I am about ready to drive down to the condo corp building and take a giant ****. I want them to pay this $50 fine. 

Why should I have to pay the fine because they towed my truck without my consent or knowledge while I was in a different province?

Come guys - What are my rights here?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I would also like to say that this was originally posted in the Real Estate section.
I don't know how or why it ended up in General. Mod must have moved it on me.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Why not join the board? At least you'd be informed.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Because this happened in a private matter, I think your best approach is to write to the board requesting reasonable notice periods to enable all residents to comply. I would think 7 days is the most you can hope for.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> Why not join the board? At least you'd be informed.


Not sure if you will get the reference or not, but:

"Ain't nobody got time for dat"

Joining the board would just be a waste of my time and an extra "responsibility" that I don't care for. I pay my fees on time and I just want them to leave me alone. That's it. That's all.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

That extra hour 4 times a year would give you a voice in what policies your condo enforces.

Either make time or don't complain.

I'm on the board of every condo I own, I don't have any of my tenants vehicles towed, I know if there are problems, I decide how and what gets fixed, and I have a say in fees and special assessments...from someone who's on boards, I'd say you should make the time...


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

If you truck ws parked in your private drive way while you were on vacation I would have serious issue with them towing it and would ask them to pay the fees.Parked on the road or visitor parking then I would say fair game .


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah..

I called them today. I am going to have to pay it.

Just means I need to eat more Mr. Noodles to stay on budget. :biggrin:


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Kaejs,

I just had a board meeting for one of my condos yesterday...convinced the board that we needed a special levy for $200k (divided amount 22 units) to do some major renovations to the place (roof, balconies, windows, etc.)

It's things like this that make it important to be on them, I imagine the shock from the other residents will be worse than your ticket.

Off to a different board meeting tonight.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> Kaejs,
> 
> I just had a board meeting for one of my condos yesterday...convinced the board that we needed a special levy for $200k (divided amount 22 units) to do some major renovations to the place (roof, balconies, windows, etc.)


So, this will increase monthly payments and fees for the residents who live there, no?

I probably would not be jumping up and down - but at the same time, at least it is going into the units themselves and not to the city.
My $50 ticket doesn't benefit anyone. It's just a cash grab that I will never see again.

If I had to pay an extra $50/month but I got a new window, roof, balcony, etc. I would be a lot more satisfied.


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## SuperGrover (Oct 24, 2011)

Nope, it means you would have a one time special assessment at just over nine grand. That you have no choice but to pay. Read the condo act, your bylaws and policies, it is very important to understand your rights and the condo boards rights.


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## lb71 (Apr 3, 2009)

And if you don't pay, they will put a lien on your place.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

How many people just have $9100 lying around?


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> How many people just have $9100 lying around?


it's not like they care.
(answer: more debt !  line of credit / more mortgage / etc)


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## lb71 (Apr 3, 2009)

cashinstinct said:


> it's not like they care.
> (answer: more debt !  line of credit / more mortgage / etc)


That's pretty well it. It doesn't matter if you have the money, its your obligation to pay up. Same thing could happen if you owned a single dwelling house. You discover you need to make a major repair for $9100. If you delay the repair, it could make things worst and cost you more down the road. You can take that chance, as it only impacts you. As a condo board, their responsibility is to the collective, and they cannot delay such a repair.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You're right, we didn't care. All the board members knew the work had to be done, most of them live in the building and don't have a lot of extra funds either, but they also live in smaller units so their hit isn't too bad.

I expect a couple of units may get pushed into foreclosure from this. I know one "investor" who owns 6 units which he bought at the peak (he offered to sell me some at twice what I paid...and that was as low as he could go). 

At the same time, the building was mismanaged for years because other "investors" paid too much and didn't do proper maintenance to keep their costs down.

The residents are unhappy, but they do want a new roof...


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

So what happens if I was also on the board with someone like yourself, Just a Guy, and I decided that I did not agree and I did not want to get new roofs, etc.

What if I stated that we could go a few more years without replacing it and we didn't need the extra cost right now. What would happen? Do I get out-voted, is it democratic, how does this play out?


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I have no experience with condo boards but I would imagine Just a guy and others are not proposing a big expense for the hell of it.Nobody waits for the roof to leak to replace it and it is better to plan ahead and budget , keep an eye on the reserve funds when you buy a condo.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> So what happens if I was also on the board with someone like yourself, Just a Guy, and I decided that I did not agree and I did not want to get new roofs, etc.
> 
> What if I stated that we could go a few more years without replacing it and we didn't need the extra cost right now. What would happen? Do I get out-voted, is it democratic, how does this play out?


What I have found is those that care and show up pretty much make the decisions. Ours has been done by vote, and it vote not per person, but rather per unit. In our condo there is one investor that owns a third of the units. She is always there, and will often get her way because of her multiple votes. Fortunately, she an investor and is quite aligned to our views too, so we seldomly disagree. It's essentially majority rule, but there are just some things that just have to be done.




marina628 said:


> I have no experience with condo boards but I would imagine Just a guy and others are not proposing a big expense for the hell of it.Nobody waits for the roof to leak to replace it and it is better to plan ahead and budget , keep an eye on the reserve funds when you buy a condo.


I have actually found quite a difference on how the votes go. Condo owners who,live in the condo often vote differently than the investors who are renting it out. The condo owners who are also residence tend to make more motions on spending money on things that increase their enjoyment of the condo, but not necessarily the value or rent-ability. Investors tend to look at the minimums to keep the property well maintained, at a lower costs.

Examples I have seen. Resident owners wanted to redo open the pool and sauna, would have cost over $100k in rents, plus maintenance. Investors said no. When fixing the REALLY old elevator, residents wanted high speed, nicer, onvestoe wanted just a good replacement. When redoing the front, residents wanted nice leather expensive couches, etc, investors went with a less expensive couch. 

There are definitely differences, so it is in the best interest for people if they don't like it, to get involved.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Everyone has a say, the issue is debated and people are free to vote however they wish.

However, some people are more assertive and persuasive than others.

As marina pointed out however, there are major projects to be done, and there is no reserve fund. I also believe that you do one cash call, not a series of little ones, so we got multiple quotes for each project, got a general idea of how much we needed to spend (we won't have all the money right away, and we can't have all the work done at one time), debated the amount (we discussed lowering the amount, but then some people pointed out that we should also look at repaving which we hadn't considered). We even discussed the possibility of repair for a temporary fix (usually not cost effective, but would let people sell before the cash call and pass the buck). We voted, one guy opposed and it was noted in the minutes.

The guy who objected didn't want to vote, he was waffling. On issues like this, everyone's opinion is noted in the minutes. 

We then approved a contractor (debated amount 4 proposals) to start replacing the roof. The guy who objected proposed asking for a discount from the contractor, which we agreed with. The whole meeting took an hour.

Btw, we got the discount from the contractor, work starts next month. Letters notifying the other residents went out this week.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Everyone has a say, the issue is debated and people are free to vote however they wish.

However, some people are more assertive and persuasive than others.

As marina pointed out however, there are major projects to be done, and there is no reserve fund. I also believe that you do one cash call, not a series of little ones, so we got multiple quotes for each project, got a general idea of how much we needed to spend (we won't have all the money right away, and we can't have all the work done at one time), debated the amount (we discussed lowering the amount, but then some people pointed out that we should also look at repaving which we hadn't considered). We even discussed the possibility of repair for a temporary fix (usually not cost effective, but would let people sell before the cash call and pass the buck). We voted, one guy opposed and it was noted in the minutes.

The guy who objected didn't want to vote, he was waffling. On issues like this, everyone's opinion is noted in the minutes. 

We then approved a contractor (debated amount 4 proposals) to start replacing the roof. The guy who objected proposed asking for a discount from the contractor, which we agreed with. The whole meeting took an hour.

Btw, we got the discount from the contractor, work starts next month. Letters notifying the other residents went out this week.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

No Reserve Fund?

That's a scary thought...

I think my Condo Corp has a Reserve Fund of either $200k or $2MM. But I'm not 100% sure which one it is.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

As I said, the place is mismanaged by the old board...had it not changed, the entire place may have fallen apart. Of course, if you never attend a meeting, you probably have no clue and think everything is fine...


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

This is true.

Tomorrow, I will check up on the review they sent out and I will post up the reserve amount.
You've all got me semi-curious now.

My house was built in 2005, so most of the materials are still in great shape and the roof over my garage has already been redone.
I think the roof on top of my unit will be the next major expense, but I don't see that needing to be replaced probably for another 3-5 winters. It seems to be holding up decently well.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Should I tell you about property managers stealing the condo funds now? No oversight makes it easy for them to do it, and it does happen quite often from what I've seen...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

A $2000000 reserve fund?! Quick let me talk to the property manager...I am sure we can come up with something.:stupid:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I would just start storing the recycling by the garage like you were, but in cardboard boxes (from the grocery store when you buy your groceries). Let the condo corp take them away then. Saves you from having to walk to the curb.

:biggrin:


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

That's why boards have the power of charge backs...


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I've had bad experiences as a former condo owner. I can't believe the power that condominium boards seem to have - We even had one board that dictated what color of curtains were allowed on the windows. Condominium owners usually have less rights than renters and picky co-owners can make your life miserable. When possible, I think it is worth adding the money necessary to buy a freehold townhouse unit instead. Once condo fees are placed into the equation you are probably ahead.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I like to leave my blue recycling bins beside the garage (outside) as it is convenient, out of the way and will not smell up my garage. ....


If your blue recycle bins are smelly, it means you aren't rinsing/washing food containers before disposing of them. Which means your recycle bins are really open garbage cans, attracting pests. We have been storing our blue bins indoors for years with no problems, and now with biweekly pickup it's even more important that they be kept clean.

I'm sure the neighbours didn't enjoy the odour of your smelly outdoor bins either. And did it occur to you that maybe the pooping dogs you complain of were attracted to your property by those smelly bins? 

As for space in your garage, stores sell hardware for racking blue bins vertically.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

The blue bins did not smell when they were outside because there was airflow and it was cooler. They smell when they are in the garage. The garage is 2x as hot as it is outside and there is no airflow.

I know that you are supposed to rinse everything out before putting it into the recycling. But it is still hard to not have the bins smell as time goes on when they are just heating up in the garage. I also have tenants, as I am sure you know, and I cannot "force" them to clean every container satisfactorily.

I don't know how dogs pooping near my property have anything to do with the recycling bins beside my garage. These are two separate issues.
My point with the dogs is that dogs are annoyingly loud when they bark and they piss and **** everywhere, yet nobody complains. I have blue bins (which are new) on the side of my house and I am *hound*ed (pun intended) for it.

If I can't smell the bins when I walk out of my house, then there's no way my neighbour can smell them. They are definitely less unsightly than some of the cars people drive in my neighbourhood and my recycling bins don't move or make noise.

However, to each their own.

As I have said before on this forum - Everyone in Canada is offended or has a problem with _something_.


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