# now there are 5 USD RRSPs



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

we've got a lovely bunch of USD rrsps
5 of them, in fact;
all fully functional dual-currency or equal-to-dual-currency registered account broker platforms.

here's a rough overview. I am hoping that incorrect or missing details will be updated. Brokers are listed in the order in which they launched USD or USD-equivalent rrsps.


*Questrade*

- the original dual currency rrsp;
- holds securities in both currencies;
- receives & holds dividends in both currencies;
- gambit trades can be slow & awkward.


*Royal Bank*

- next to launch a dual currency rrsp;
- holds securities in both currencies; receives $ holds dividends in both currencies;
- gambit trades (to exchange currencies) are near-perfect. Instant, seamless, 100% online, cost is a couple of low online commissions.


*BMO Investorline*

- numero tre with a dual currency rrsp;
- same appealing features as roybank;
- same instant low-cost currency gambits.


_the above 3 brokers offer plus value to investors who wish to accumulate more US dollars in their rrsps as painlessly as possible. The plus feature is the payment of US dividends in their native currency.
_


*CIBC*

- appears to convert all USD dividends into CAD at spot rates, almost identical to bank of canada noon rates. These are the most favourable FX rates that an investor could possibly obtain;

- a huge bonus is that CIBC also appears to convert capital itself at spot or bank of canada rates. Investor does not need to carry out a pair of gambit trades to convert his registered account currency from CAD to USD & vice versa.


*Scotia iTrade*

- also appears to convert all USD dividends into CAD at spot or bank of canada rates;

- iTrade reportedly does not convert cash itself at spot/bank of canada rates; therefore iTrade customers need to gambit the currencies in order to move from CAD to USD & vice versa;

- however iTrade has an extra-special bonus of its own, if i understand haroldCrump's messages correctly. The bonus is that iTrade is also converting USD dividends from the famous 20-canadian-companies-that-pay-USD-dividends at favourable spot/BOC rates in cash & margin accounts, as well as in registered accounts. The other 4 brokers mentioned above do not extend favourable FX conversion to these USD dividends when such shares are held in CAD cash or margin accounts - which is where the majority of shareholders are still holding them (Questrade may be an exception).


_tentative assumption: CIBC & scotia iTrade likely discovered that the ISM mainframe they both use doesn't support canadian registered account software. TDDI has also discovered this fact. Unfortunately the big green has charged off on another excursion to possibly develop a USD RRSP by 2015.

meanwhile both CIBC & scotia IT - to their great credit - bit the bullet & instead developed a protocol to convert all USD dividends in rrsp at highly favourable spot/bank of canada rates. This is permitting them both to offer competitive terms in the here & now.

the laggards - & we know who they are - will have to shape up sooner or later, i imagine. They are now in the minority_.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

FYI below reply from TDDI manager:
"I can’t comment about the rates at CIBC but can tell you that TDDI aims to keep its rates competitive. I know that the larger the currency conversion, the better the rate tends to be..... . I can appreciate your frustration with the US RSP issue but want to make sure you know it’s a priority for TDDI to have a US$ RSP offering and that we’ve been looking to enhance our AutoWash program (ie US dividends) until the US RSP is live".

ANother CIBC benefit that they have the lowest trading fees among "big banks" at $6.95 and you're not getting charged additional 6.95 if you buy (or sell) same equity same day multiple times (T.gal mentioned it earlier, and I can confirm it)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor said:


> FYI below reply from TDDI manager:
> "I ... can tell you that TDDI aims to keep its rates competitive."



this is a good example of the dysfunction afflicting this broker on this issue.

no, the TD's FX rates for currency conversion in rrsp are *not* competitive. They are hovering north of 1.50% as has been documented many, many times.

brokers who are competitive are the 5 brokers mentioned. Other brokers including the TD are still missing the boat.

as for this statement, who is this guy trying to fool?



> I know that the larger the currency conversion, the better the rate tends to be.


the bottom FX tier - the tier with the highest FX fee - goes all the way up to $10,000 at TDDI. Only above $10,000.01 do the rates improve, & then only slightly.

exactly how many isolated, individual, single dividends that are each greater than $10,000 does this joker think that TDDI clients are routinely receiving?

put another way, USD dividends at the big green get FX'd at the highest possible rate. The exception are a paltry few USD DRIP dividends which - according to cmf members - are being washed without FX fees. However i can attest that a large category of USD DRIP dividends are still being FX'd; although the TD had promised to correct all DRIPs in registered accounts, with no exceptions.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

gibor said:


> FYI below reply from TDDI manager:
> "I can’t comment about the rates at CIBC but can tell you that TDDI aims to keep its rates competitive. I know that the larger the currency conversion, the better the rate tends to be..... . I can appreciate your frustration with the US RSP issue but want to make sure you know it’s a priority for TDDI to have a US$ RSP offering and that we’ve been looking to enhance our AutoWash program (ie US dividends) until the US RSP is live"


Just FYI, the USD dividends I get in my TFSA and RRSP at CIBC IE (detailed in the other thread) are quite small. I'm talking less than $100 per dividend (I hold quite a few individual stocks, probably too many  ). So at least CIBC isn't dinging clients on FX rates based on the dividend (or trade) value.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

A little more numbers  Got on jan 10 PM dividend in TDDI and MO in CIBC.
Spot rate 1.0917
TDDI gave me 1.0695 (ridiculous as usual)
2.07%
I had DRIP but cannot tell if I pay FX as TD doesn't tell ne what price in US I paid for DRIPed shares.
CIBC gave 1.0848 on dividend payment and 1.085 to DRIP shares.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

"...put another way, USD dividends at the big green get FX'd at the highest possible rate."

And it sucks....just keep holding out for them to get their act together... I call every month and ask about USD $$ RRSP and TFSA.

Regarding USD DRIPs, none of my U.S. stocks have DRIPped yet in 2014 so can't tell if they are getting washed w/o exchange fees. I should find out later this month.


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## arrow1963 (Nov 22, 2011)

In my experience Qtrade has $US RRSP accounts, where the dividends stay in the $US account.

I'm not sure why they are so infrequently discussed on these boards. The top 2 discount brokerages in last year's G&M rankings both appear to have $US RRSP accounts, and neither is included on this list. Lack of marketing? I'd write it off as Central Canadian myopia, but Virtual Brokers appears to be headquartered in Toronto.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ne-brokerage-survey/article15499322/?page=all


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The big bank discount brokerages bring other things to the table (in varying degrees), such as a large(ish) menu of GIC and bond offerings and in some cases the opportunity to purchase IPO New Issues in which the mothership is participating in as an underwriter. Granted few IPO New Issues are worth purchasing because the IPO price often falters after commencement of trading, but some are a good deal. 

AFAIK, none of these options are available at the boutique brokerages.... and these types of products are just as important as equity markets in a diversified portfolio.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

altaRed the thing is, four (4) out of the 5 brokers now offering dual-currency or USD-equivalent rrsps *are* big bank discount brokers!

the laggard banks should catch up imho.

(aside to arrow) i believe that people are aware of Qtrade as it long has dominated the globe & mail's discount broker ratings table. However - & i'd love to be confirmed here - does Qtrade not have a fee of some $30 or so for a USD rrsp? 

the presence of such a fee is suggesting to me that their rrsp platform includes some manual labour on Qtrade's part, ie it is not quite a fully-automated dual currency rrsp.


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## Uranium101 (Nov 18, 2011)

For RBC DI, RSP does hold USD. It is not a next to launch thing. The only account that does not have USD is RESP. No broker I know can hold USD in RESP. It is a government thing I heard.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the Globe & Mail broker ratings table has long been skewed in a puzzling manner. It appears that heavy weighting was given to cheap commish last year, which is what powered VB to the (undeserved imho) top of the list.

the way i see it, the principal reason to avoid or allocate only partial assets to the privately-owned boutique brokers is that we know nothing about their capitalization. We know nothing about their bank relationships. 

all that we know is that they meet the capital requirements of the exchanges. But for parties with large accounts, the inaccessibility of their books is a negative factor.

personally i believe that edward kholodenko, founder & presumably majority shareowner of questrade, should hold a partial IPO. He'd only have to sell off 10-20% of his holding. But the books would then be opened. The audited filings would follow, regular as clockwork.

that's what Interactive Brokers founder thomas peterffy did, a number of years ago.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Thanks for doing this list Humble ,this is the one thing I dislike about TD and have seriously considered opening up a USD account at CIBC for a while.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

^ ditto, everything she said, thanks humble.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I have a bunch CIBC broker manager accounts. In the past year I have been adding us denominated stocks and ETF's to my non-registered account. They show as a separate USD account part of my statement, then roll it at the end of month to an equivalent CAD $ value for overall reporting of that account's performance. I have not looked at it too carefuly, but it seems to be working fine in thier back end. 

I do not know if they offer the same service for direct investor accounts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Ponderling said:


> ... They show as a separate USD account part of my statement, then roll it at the end of month to an equivalent CAD $ value for overall reporting of that account's performance. I have not looked at it too carefuly, but it seems to be working fine in thier back end.



ah, but "equivalent" is the multi-million $$ word here. Ponderline u won't know until u "look carefully" how many million FX $$ might be packed into that one word "equivalent."

does it mean equivalent after a foreign exchange conversion with fee? with no fee? with how much of a fee?

what gibor, xoron, hCrump, pPincer & hubbity pie are doing is looking up the bank of canada noon rate for each transaction date they cite, then comparing it to the rate used by the broker, in order to isolate the broker's fee.

in cases where the broker doesn't mention its rate, then g, x, h, p, h & co. are working forward from the raw USD dividend amount per share, together with the CAD result, to determine the broker's applicable FX rate.

all this is a huge amount of work. Gibor & hCrump are especially to be thanked, because they have worked on so many transactions. Their effort was successful. It enabled them to build an accurate picture of remarkable new change coming recently from their respective brokers, cibc & scotia iTrade.

ponderling you would have to do the same work to break your monthly aggregated statement down into all the individual transactions, each with its own FX rate. Then you'd need to find the BOC noon rate for each transaction, in order to compare & analyze what kind of deal they are, in fact, giving you.

when you say the account "seems to be working fine" although you have not "looked at it too carefully," this is what millions of investors did with their rrsps until a few years ago. They didn't look too carefully. 

but then, they started looking. A couple of class actions resulted, over hidden fees on US stock buy/sell transactions in rrsp. These resulted in the brokers pulling up their socks & carefully printing all the FX rates for securities buy/sell transactions in reg'd accounts on statements.

however, the realm of USD dividends & the countless instances where brokers charge hidden FX fees on these divs remained hidden & unexposed until very recently. Until a few rogues & tarts in the blogosphere began writing about the issue. Until people started complaining to their brokers. Some even complained to the IIROC.

look at the change that has occurred! i'm tickled pink.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks for all the work and updates hp. Great thread.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I'm surprised about this(hold the stock,but do not use the platform....rbc di client.
Even just cmf(because it is a common thread)is a highly visable goggle search for new investors(wonder what the stats are for viewing cmf in a given mth!?)
If i was a new investor(core cmf) switching to self directed i would automatically black ball td for this.
I can't believe corporate td just keeps carrying on ignoring canadian self directed retail investors.
don't they care about competing for new business?generally once you select a broker(once self-direct)it is a relationship for life(that s a lot of missed business)


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Donald I couldn't agree more, unfortunately I think it's a case of too little too late for TDDI.

What we have discovered recently thanks to gibor is that CIBC DI has been giving market spot rates on all USD conversions with their registered accounts for as long as 15 months now, possibly as much as a year and a half.

TDDI even if they do get their mythical registered USD accounts up and running will not even come close to matching that.
Sadly TDDI has proven itself to be the absolute laggard amongst the big 5 in removing it's snout from the trough.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Mr p,learning to invest is hard enough(for new investors)who the hell wants to add another layer such as ''auto'' wash.
Businesses are suppose to make things easier(no matter which way you slice it auto usd is easier)
surprised because they should of clearly seen the trending of self direct years ago(etf movement/mutual funds ect)


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

Wow, I did not know that about CIBC. I just checked a couple of USD dividends and a USD purchase in my CIBC RRSP and they are pretty much at spot rates. Incredible!


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

FrugalTrader said:


> Wow, I did not know that about CIBC. I just checked a couple of USD dividends and a USD purchase in my CIBC RRSP and they are pretty much at spot rates. Incredible!


Why are they (CIBC IE) not making a bigger deal about this? It's a huge win for the client, and it could be huge for them if they make it known.

Overall, I'm a very happy CIBC IE customer. 
- I've NEVER had a problem that couldn't be resolved over the phone with an agent.
- I've only ever had a single transaction go sideways (and in my favour) in the 12 years I've been with them (and yes, I did notify them :stupid
- I've now discovered (thanks to madame humble and gibor) that the USD transactions in my RRSP and TFSA are at very close to the spot rates. And have been for quite a while
- Their newest revision of the website allows all sorts of portfolio sorting, downloads, 13 months searchable transactions all online. No having to go to the paper / pdf statements.
- And all that for $6.95 / trade

I smell a winner at CIBC. (at least when it comes to the big boys in the discount brokerage business)


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Xoron said:


> Why are they (CIBC IE) not making a bigger deal about this? It's a huge win for the client, and it could be huge for them if they make it known.


There may be tacit understanding among the brokerages that they will make these changes quietly, and not make a "big deal" out of it.
After all, they are all guilty of ripping off their customers for years, even decades.

How do you suppose CIBC's advertisement will sound like :

_Now, New and Improved. USD dividends finally converted at market rates_.

Customers will go _so...umm...like...all this while they weren't?...._.

I think the big 5 brokerages have made a tacit pact to do what they can, but keep quiet about it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it's true. The real culpability lies - or rather has been lying - with the hidden FX fees on USD dividends in registered accounts where the brokers were acting as trustees.

where they were bound by hundreds of years of common law jurisprudence to act always in the best interests of their clients. Never - no, never - to act in their own best interests.

so they'd best keep quiet & hope nobody notices.

cibc & scotia have lone rangered to the rescue & headed the varmint critics off at the pass.

tddi's been left sulking down in the gulch, with a partial gesture that is curing some USD dividends but apparently not all of them. It's still too early to see all details. Some dividends won't roll out until march.

will anybody be left at the big green to care? or will everyone have taken a hoss & fled to greener pastures.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Do you all remember the class action suit against BMO over the forced currency conversions?

http://www.paliareroland.com/practice-areas/details/class-actions/bank-of-montreal-rrsp
http://paliare.cubiclefugitive.com/...s_bank_over_currency_conversion_.pdf?sfvrsn=2

As far as I can tell, the class action suit against BMO is still in progress.

OTOH, TD Waterhouse settled a similar class action:

http://www.investorvoice.ca/Scandals/RRSP_FX/TD_FX_SA.pdf

My uneducated uninformed unfounded guesses:

1. CIBC changed their practices to preempt a potential class action.
2. TDW feels free to continue pillaging our pockets because they already settled. They updated their fine print to provide the relevant disclosures. That was part of the settlement, I think.

(not a lawyer)


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks for putting this together humble. I think this does it for me. I was favouring RBC as I have experience with their platform while helping my mom with her accounts but it seems like CIBC pretty much gets around the issue of no dedicated USD RRSP by offering spot rates for dividend conversion and no need to gambit. I'll start by moving the kid's accounts over from TDDI and see how that goes. It's such a pity that TD has chosen not to address these issues in a prompt and effective manner.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

My registered accounts are held at TDDI. I also happen to own CIBC stock.

*I now realize that I've got this all wrong.*

Instead, I should be holding my registered accounts at CIBC. And I should be holding TD stock.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

uptoolate said:


> ... It's such a pity that TD has chosen not to address these issues in a prompt and effective manner.



such a simple, low-key sentence ... but it tells volumes. TDDI made a most serious mistake way back last fall imho, when they were effervescing about their patch for DRIP dividends. At the same time, they refused to consider the idea of converting all dividends at spot rates. It would have been so easy for them. It might have earned them brownie points with clients who, as things are now working out, are planning to move their rrsps elsewhere (i'm one.)

but there's more.

before i tell this particularly repulsive tale, could someone please go over to mister pincer's house to hold his hand, make sure he has a cold beer, a good scotch or a warm cup of tea on hand? because he's not going to like this ...

the big green is presently offering selected clients the right to have *all* USD dividends rolled straight into US money market fund *if* the selected VIP client phones the day before payable date to request such a roll.

how do i know? i can't reveal the source, except to say he's super-trustworthy.

what do i think? S.l.i.m.e. B.u.c.k.e.t. Far more disgusting than that picturesque thread nearby that's rabbitting on about plumbing fixtures.

the bad thing about Project Slime Dividend is that it's being offered in a disorganized manner, like a clandestine bribe, apparently to clients who either are important or else they complain a lot.

the good thing is that PSD is likely going to be a gigantic waste of time & a great big fat pain in the butt for both client & broker. Suppose VIP client has 12 US stocks, all paying monthly dividends. That's 144 phone calls the client has to make, or one phone call roughly every second business day.

and what about all the arguments, palavers, chin-wags & uproars when VIP client forgets to phone but wants his dividends in US money market fund anyhow? ouf! what a waste of time & energy! mister VIP would be so much better off marching his registered account straight over to cibc or bmo or wherever in the first place.

i am left puzzled by one thing. To me, it seems to be in character that a big chartered bank would develop one efficient mechanism to feed all USD dividends in registered accounts to all clients at spot rates, thus ending its problem.

but it does seem out of character for one such bank, namely the TD, to go about the same task in such a halfway, incomplete, fretful, undignified, cheapskate, nickel-&-dime manner.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> the big green is presently offering selected clients the right to have *all* USD dividends rolled straight into US money market fund *if* the selected VIP client phones the day before payable date to request such a roll.
> .
> .
> .
> Suppose VIP client has 12 US stocks, all paying monthly dividends. That's 144 phone calls the client has to make, or one phone call roughly every second business day


Exactly, that's an enormous burden to put on the call center staff. On top of that, who knows when the payable date is anyway? My wife and I hold some common stocks (CIBC IE for me, TDWH for her) and our payable dates never line up. TD is always later than CIBC. So how is one to know WHEN a dividend is payable? Pray to the almighty gods that you call on the correct day before the div payout? Or just have a standing open line to the TD agents "Might be a dividend coming in tomorrow, can you check on that for me?"


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> ... Businesses are suppose to make things easier ...


I must have missed this requirement ... :rolleyes2:

I always thought their aim was to make money.


Cheers


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> I always thought their aim was to make money.


True, but how much more money will TDDI be making now that their customers are leaving in droves?

This latest development by engineering geniuses at TDDI, Project Slime Dividend, is just too much, I can feel my blood pressure rising just thinking about it lol.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

If my car wasn't in the shop yesterday I would have begun the process then, it just makes no sense to stay with TDDI anymore now that there are so many better options out there.

Started the process of moving today.

First step, had to phone in to learn the elected annual payout for 2014 on my RRIF and sold enough e-series to cover it.
Next step, once that trade closes, withdraw the cash payment, & switch the remaining e-series to plain index funds.
Then off to CIBC IE it goes, bye bye greedy green 

Turns out I need to contribute to an RRSP this year too, (about 17K contribution room, & more after filing taxes) and what do you know, now RBC DI has just dropped the minimum account balance requirement to qualify for $9.95 trades, perfect timing!
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/17067-RBC-Direct-Investing-all-trades-9-95


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

aww

here i was thinking we should organize a phone denial-of-service attack

everybody phone in at 11 am every morning & *d.e.m.a.n.d* that their US dividends in rrsp be snaffed pronto into US money market with zero FX fee

i mean what's good for the King is good for the Knave as well, right


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

lol, good plan actually, and I'm sure they'll come around eventually, but I just don't think what they'll have to offer, once they do get it up and running, will even come close to what we've discovered CIBC IE has been doing for the last year and a quarter to year and a half already.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it doesn't matter whether u have a td rrsp or not

just everybody phone em up at 11 am & *d.e.m.a.n.d* the VIP dividend shuffle


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

wouldn't that throw a wrench into things, right in RSP season :smiley_simmons:

I already had to wait something like 20m to half an hour on the phone this morning to get a rep


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> Turns out I need to contribute to an RRSP this year too, (about 17K contribution room, & more after filing taxes) and what do you know, now RBC DI has just dropped the minimum account balance requirement to qualify for $9.95 trades, perfect timing!
> http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/17067-RBC-Direct-Investing-all-trades-9-95


Just be aware that RBC DI has a quarterly fee of $25 for accounts where your combined assets with them are <$15K.
http://www.rbcdirectinvesting.com/commissions-fees-schedule.html


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Yes, thanks Spudd, I did check that out, & I expect to have more contribution room after I do my taxes (I'm 3 years behind), and in the event of a major correction, I could open a non-registered account just to keep the total balance over that $15K.

Still mulling it over, not completely decided, because CIBC dings you if you're under 25K in the RRSP, same as TD, but I have not checked to see if they would combine the RSP and the RIF for the 25K limit, doubt it though.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> ... but I just don't think what they'll have to offer, once they do get it up and running, will even come close to what we've discovered CIBC IE has been doing for the last year and a quarter to year and a half already.


 ... so if I may ask - what are the possibilities for moving money in/out of CIBC IE?


Cheers


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Not sure I understand the question exactly Eclectic, there is no signing bonus or bribe atm that I'm aware of.
But the thing that really draws me is we've found that there's now no need for Norbert's Gambit with CIBC registered accounts.

Just a month ago or so I was eyeballing at a british ADR but I decided it was too much trouble to buy because I didn't want to do a NG.
That stock really popped, and I don't want to miss opportunities like that, and won't have to now.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> Yes, thanks Spudd, I did check that out, & I expect to have more contribution room after I do my taxes (I'm 3 years behind), and in the event of a major correction, I could open a non-registered account just to keep the total balance over that $15K.
> 
> Still mulling it over, not completely decided, because CIBC dings you if you're under 25K in the RRSP, same as TD, but I have not checked to see if they would combine the RSP and the RIF for the 25K limit, doubt it though.


Watch out for trade costs too. I'm not sure the $ amount required (among all CIBC IE accounts) to get the $6.95 trades.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

it's 100K, but with 50K you still get $9.95 trades.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

..my TD rif is under 100K, but if/when I move my TFSA over that should top it up


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> Not sure I understand the question exactly Eclectic, there is no signing bonus or bribe atm that I'm aware of ....


I see why it's confusing ... I seem to have left off the parts that might have helped. :rolleyes2: 

If one is using ING (soon to be Tangerine) or PCF - will they accept money going into the taxable brokerage account or TFSA via "bill payment" from the bank account side, with the brokerage as "payee"? 

Does CIBC want one to have a chequing account to facilitate using ATMs to deposit cheques & transfer to the various accounts (ex. RRSP, TFSA or taxable)? If so, are there any holds involved?

I was less concerned about signing bonus or transfer bribes as I figured it would be posted here or on the CIBC web site.


Cheers


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Ah, right, I see, but I have yet to dig into that stuff myself so I have no answers on those questions, but I don't personally see it as a huge concern.

There has to be a way to link up.
My brokerage atm is TDDI but I don't have a TD bank account & I'm sure there is also a way around it with CIBC similarly.


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## Longwinston (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm with iTrade. If I understand you correctly, US dividends convert with very little fees, but if I were to buy 200 shares of KO i would get dinged there unless I was paying the $30/qtr us friendly fee?

If so, great news!


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

mrPPincer said:


> What we have discovered recently thanks to gibor is that CIBC DI has been giving market spot rates on all USD conversions with their registered accounts for as long as 15 months now, possibly as much as a year and a half.


I'd say they have a good argument for #1 at this point. If you don't even need to do NG then it doesn't matter to me if they don't actually have USD cash holdings. For someone who really wanted that but had infrequent transactions you could find a MM fund or use DLR. I figured NG was pretty cheap at Questrade since it's 0.2% in spreads and $5 for the sale. You can convert $1000 for $7 or $2000 for $9 which isn't bad. But even if a buy commission at CIBC costs the same, you're saving a lot of time compared to Questrade (tomorrow is my 3rd day of checking whether they've journaled my shares yet) and a couple of commissions compared to RBC. Is there any reason not to prefer CIBC other than having a small account or needing to hold USD cash for frequent small transactions?

Competition isn't dead after all. It almost looks like we need to keep standing accounts with each of the big 5. Right after I transfer out all my TD investment accounts, they buy my credit card from CIBC (having previously removed my other two CIBC accounts) and now it looks like CIBC is the best investment option. All we need is for them to start throwing in some nice bonuses for new accounts and we can have fun switching to the best one every year.



FrugalTrader said:


> Wow, I did not know that about CIBC. I just checked a couple of USD dividends and a USD purchase in my CIBC RRSP and they are pretty much at spot rates. Incredible!


Do you get loyalty pricing ($7 trades)? If it's restricted to those accounts that would exclude many investors.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

@Longwinston, there's no $30/quarter fee that I'm aware of.
CIBC does however, like TD, have a fee for having a RRSP account less than 25K.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

mrPPincer said:


> @Longwinston, there's no $30/quarter fee that I'm aware of.


Longwinston was talking about Scotia iTrade - they do have a $30/quarter fee for (what they call) a "USD-friendly RRSP".
That fee buys you favorable (supposedly BOC) rates for all FX conversions.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

longwinston don't pay $30 per quarter or $120 per year.

learn to gambit instead. Search "gambit" in this forum, there are many threads. Google norbert's gambit.

basically it's arbitrage. Has been going on for hundreds of years.


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## Longwinston (Oct 20, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> longwinston don't pay $30 per quarter or $120 per year.
> 
> learn to gambit instead. Search "gambit" in this forum, there are many threads. Google norbert's gambit.
> 
> basically it's arbitrage. Has been going on for hundreds of years.


Yeah, good idea. I am fully invested in the US market right now with the dollar being what it is. So for me, the favourable dividend conversion makes me a happy camper. Maybe they will have true US$ RRSP accounts by the time the Canadian dollar gets back up (or until there is a correction). When I am ready to move money over to invest I will do that gambit instead for sure.

Thanks


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Our esteemed friend, Canadian Capitalist, has also left TD Direct Investing.

TD Direct Investing, you need to get your act together!


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## madMike (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm another UNsatisfied customer of TDDI, and just transferred to BMO IL mainly for the $US registered accounts (and the $300 bribe). After 8 days, today the accounts are visible (TFSA, RSP, cash) and show that TD dinged $152 for EACH account transfer fee. BMO rep on phone told me that they would cover these however, confirming what rep at branch told me during initial transfer Jan. 7. 
I will post when fees reimbursed in BMO IL account. I wonder if anyone had the same experience....broker taking fees from ALL accounts individually? Seems like TDDI is not making any friends these days.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

madMike said:


> I will post when fees reimbursed in BMO IL account. I wonder if anyone had the same experience....broker taking fees from ALL accounts individually? Seems like TDDI is not making any friends these days.


Transfer out fees of about $150 per account are standard across all brokers. It's not just TDDI. BMOIL also has a $135 full transfer out fee.

http://www.bmoinvestorline.com/Commissions/FeesBrochure_Dec.pdf


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

madMike said:


> I wonder if anyone had the same experience....broker taking fees from ALL accounts individually? Seems like TDDI is not making any friends these days.


Is that not standard? I transferred 2 years ago 6 accounts from NBF to RBC - NBF charged $135 per account and RBC reimbursed. Then I transferred from RBC to TDDI half a year later; RBC charged $135-150 per account and TDDI reimbursed. However, it's recommended that you check this out before you transfer.


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

avrex said:


> Our esteemed friend, Canadian Capitalist, has also left TD Direct Investing........


It would be great if the CMFers who switch away from TDDI to another brokerage would post here how long it took to have the new accounts open. *How long does it take from the transfer out to open for trading at the new bank? * My last transfer from RBC to TDDI took for 6 accounts incl. a corporate account virtually 6 months!!, though not all of them at once. Actually, it was TDDI's fault to get the accounts linked and open for trading. Quite nightmarish and I am hesitating to go through this process again.


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## madMike (Feb 10, 2012)

Today is my 8th business day after transfer from TDDI to BMO IL; on the third day, accounts visible but not holdings. On the seventh day, holdings visible, however one holding in TFSA (int. equity fund iShares) not visible. RSP account was suspended due to license pic not visible or something. After several calls, today on the eighth day, most assets visible. I haven't tried a trade yet but it appears that it takes at least seven days.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

avrex said:


> Our esteemed friend, Canadian Capitalist, has also left TD Direct Investing.
> 
> TD Direct Investing, you need to get your act together!


I'm hanging in there with TD, at least for now - patiently! BMO's offerings and brokerage do look enticing but I'm hoping to stick with TD for the long haul - hopefully they expedite our "promised" US$ RRSP's.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

anybody still planning to hang a registered account with USD dividends at the TD must surely be some kind of masochist? because they've said No. USD. RRSP. Before. 2015.

beats me how folks can do that to themselves ...


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## icon (Nov 25, 2013)

Synergy said:


> I'm hanging in there with TD, at least for now - patiently! BMO's offerings and brokerage do look enticing but I'm hoping to stick with TD for the long haul - hopefully they expedite our "promised" US$ RRSP's.


Same deal here - I'm willing to give them a bit longer, although I certainly hope it is sooner than later. The main reason I'm sticking with TD though (besides the convenience of instant transfers since I bank with TDCT) is access to the e-series funds. I like to do regular contributions throughout the year and then periodically switch the funds in e-series over to my core ETF holdings. If one of the big banks comes out with commission fee ETF buys though, I think that would seal the deal on making the move. Not interested in the smaller non-bank brokerages.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

^ (humble) not a huge issue for me, I don't plan to invest a significant amount into my RRSP until 2016-17 - when my contributions will be matched. Currently I'm holding my US stocks within a non-registered account - happy to accumulate some US cash from my holdings right now. Come the end of 2015, if the account is not up and running - then you could call me "some kind of masochist" for sticking around...

^ (icon) - e-series had been a draw towards TD for me as well.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ah but u see, i was referring strictly to rrsp accounts that already have USD dividends ...


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

gotcha, originally read your post too quickly!


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

avrex said:


> Our esteemed friend, Canadian Capitalist, has also left TD Direct Investing.
> 
> TD Direct Investing, you need to get your act together!


I might follow his lead soon.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

*TDDI RRSP US Dividend Currency conversion fee losses*

I may have to reconsider moving my account away from TDDI as well.

The typical bank-client relationship is such that *the bank pours wet concrete around the client's feet.*
Once they have your accounts, mortgage, etc. set up with them, the concrete hardens, and it's difficult to move all of your business and go to another bank.

I recently calculated (from my last two US payed dividends) the amount of money I was losing to TDDI's currency conversion fee. The amounts I calculated was 1.18 and 1.17%.

Let's walk through the *following exercise:*
Count up all of the US dividends paid out to you during a year. For me that would be $4100 US.
Calculate the amount lost to TDDI's currency conversion fee. $4100 *1.18% = $48.38

I am losing approximately *$50 per year*, due to the currency conversion fees being applied on my US Dividends.

As The Clash once asked, "Should I Stay or Should I Go".
Is it worth me leaving TDDI? or do I continue paying approximately $50/year for the foreseeable future, until they get a true USD account? 
i.e. 2014 $50, 2015 $50, 2016 $50.....
*
Calculate how much money you are losing to currency conversion fees on US dividends.*


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

avrex said:


> Let's walk through the *following exercise:*
> Count up all of the US dividends paid out to you during a year. For me that would be $4100 US.
> Calculate the amount lost to TDDI's currency conversion fee. $4100 *1.18% = $48.38
> 
> ...


I think the exchange rate loss is higher, even conservatively. The typical exchange rate at tddi is closer to 1.45 percent. But December 2013, Vanguard dividends were changed at rates closer to 1.6 percent. So, let's figure 1.5% is the loss.

1.5 percent * $4,100 = $61.50

But that's the lower bound. If you exchange CAD back into USD or gambit, you are going to spend more. That's another $20 to $40 for total loss of $80 to $100.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

^ (avrex) if TD gets a USD account by 2016, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle to switch for $150-$200 - especially considering it's going to cost to transfer out of TD. I guess it would depends somewhat on how much you value your time, how many accounts you plan to switch over, and what types of incentives are offered by the competing banks (cash, free trades, etc).


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I had a reason to go into TD today though and my bank manager told me to bring him any charges I incur from TD Waterhouse and he will give me a credit memo.I managed to get something of value of this visit today as he voided all fees on my Corporate account which on months I send wires can be as much as $85.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

avrex said:


> I recently calculated (from my last two US payed dividends) the amount of money I was losing to TDDI's currency conversion fee. The amounts I calculated was 1.18 and 1.17%.


That sounds too good to be true. I've never seen anything like that at TDDI.



CanadianCapitalist said:


> I think the exchange rate loss is higher, even conservatively. The typical exchange rate at tddi is closer to 1.45 percent. But December 2013, Vanguard dividends were changed at rates closer to 1.6 percent.


It can be even higher than that. Here's my most recent experience.

I received US ETF dividend on Dec 31, 2013. TDDI converted it at a rate of 1.04517. They deposit the dividends overnight. I use an average of the two BoC rates for comparison, noon before and noon after.

Bank of Canada noon rates:

2013-12-30 1.0640
2013-12-31 1.0636

Average: 1.0638

The loss:

(1.0638 - 1.04517) / 1.0638 = 0.0175 or 1.75%


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

marina628 said:


> I had a reason to go into TD today though and my bank manager told me to bring him any charges I incur from TD Waterhouse and he will give me a credit memo.




but how can a body get Waterhouse charges reimbursed?

the FX fees on USD dividends in rrsp/tfsa are not set out as separate charges. What the TD shows on a web account is the exchange rate they applied to a particular dividend conversion. They don't even show this information on statements, although imho they should.

a party seeking to break out the actual FX fee that tddi collected for itself has to look up the bank of canada noon rate for the relevant date - at tddi this appears to be the dividend payable date - then compare to rate used by the big green to determine the actual FX fee they were charging. Their fee would be whatever was over & above the spot/bank of canada rate. As CC says this runs at roughly 1.50%.

recently on a goldcorp dividend i was charged 1.55%, though.

that difference - the FX fee itself - is what you would be entitled to ... Marina somehow i don't see you totting up all these calculations & trundling em in to the TD bank manager from time to time each:

alternatively you could ask the big green for that special treatment where all your USD dividends would be routed into US money market fund before FX fees are applied ... the catch here is that client (yourself) has to phone the broker before each & every dividend payable date ... Marina somehow i don't see you doing this either ...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

waterhouse and td are streamlined together?
I would of thought it would be like rbc and rbc di.
I tried to sort out a problem not long ago at my home branch and had a situation also with Di
My rbc banker could not help because they are 2 different entity's and had to settle phone/dealing in toronto(phone)
Is rbc and rbc di the only bank of the big 5 that has this separation?curious?re:marina,that some sort of vip private wealth banking or something.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Waterhouse/TDDI and the branch level are indeed separate entities, but they're in the process of streamlining everything under one big TD umbrella now. I definitely believe marina's case, likely the local branch values her as a customer and all fees reimbursed as a credit memo will come directly from the branch's pocket, regardless of where the initial fee was.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Interesting,was not intending to imply marina was storytelling.
It confuses me rbc for example will let me use vip banking(which incl tranfer from non reg di acct to rbc chq acct ect(also usd dividends to a usa chq acct---so there is a link)but...
beyond that,that is it.
Last time i went in they were pitching me to sit down with my old advisor(guess they did realize i left)saying i should open up a tfsa ect(if though it aint hard to see i'm moving $ from di to them)
They did not know i was a client with DI(on my own)
That is actually a big plus that td is doing a umbrella,rbc should do the same!


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

I believe this depends on what you specified on the forms you filled out when opening your accounts. In the privacy section there is usually a question about 'do you permit us to share information within the RBC financial group' - meaning all RBC entities. If you said no, then the bank wouldn't be aware of your DI account (this has nothing to do with whether you can transfer $$ from bank to DI).


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I know it has nothing to do with transfers but if it's a streamlined like that in theory it would be easier to negotiate fees ect(like marina)
I would of thought from a accounting standpoint that would be a nightmare(because there is 2 different corps,and how they can balance everything out from that perspective)


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Synergy said:


> ^ (avrex) if TD gets a USD account by 2016, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle to switch for $150-$200 - especially considering it's going to cost to transfer out of TD. I guess it would depends somewhat on how much you value your time, how many accounts you plan to switch over, and what types of incentives are offered by the competing banks (cash, free trades, etc).


Agreed. I need to mull over those issues that you cited. (I currently have 2 RRSPs and 2 TFSAs and all of my banking with TD.)


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

*TDDI RRSP US Dividend Currency conversion fee - calculation example*



goose7201 said:


> However, in my TFSA and RRSP accounts the spread seems to be all over the map.....and am very confused.


Me too. 



CanadianCapitalist said:


> I think the exchange rate loss is higher, even conservatively. The typical exchange rate at tddi is closer to 1.45 percent. But December 2013, Vanguard dividends were changed at rates closer to 1.6 percent. So, let's figure 1.5% is the loss.





GoldStone said:


> That sounds too good to be true. I've never seen anything like that at TDDI.


Ok guys, help me check my process in calculating this.

Here's an example from my TDDI activity report. 
On Dec 10, 2013, RPC Inc (RES) paid a 0.10/share USD dividend. Since I own 1000 shares, this means that I should receive $100 USD.









From the report, it looks like $105 CDN was deposited into my account.

For my calculation, I took the noon exchange rate for Dec 10th of 1.0623 (see Bank of Canada webpage image below).

For this $100 USD dividend, if there are no currency conversion fees, I should be receiving $106.23 CDN. However, I only receive $105.00 CDN.
In this example, I have lost 106.23 - 105.00 = $1.23 to currency conversion fees.

I calculated the *percentage difference* between two numbers, and calculated 106.23 / 105.00 to get *a 1.17% currency conversion fee.*

The conversion fee in this example is much lower than the often reported 1.50%+.










This is only one example. It looks like the cost per transaction could be all over the map, from what others have mentioned. 
I've have only actually calculated two transactions: 1.17% (this example) and 1.18%.

*Bottom line: *Assume that we are losing, on aggregate anywhere from 1.25-1.50+% on USD dividend currency conversion fees at TDDI.

Now I need to go listen to those lyrics from The Clash.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

27/Dec: 


TDDI converted USD to CAD at 1.04600
$100 US in dividends = $104.60


Bank of Canada noon rate is 1.0697
$100 US in dividends at BoC rate = $106.97


Difference = $2.37 or 2.2%


30/Dec:


TDDI converted USD to CAD at 1.05450
$100 US in dividends = $105.45


Bank of Canada noon rate is 1.0640
$100 US in dividends at Boc rate = $106.40


Difference = $0.95 or 0.9%


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

wow, CC. These individual currency conversion instances are all over the map.

Here's another interesting tidbit.


GoldStone said:


> I received US ETF dividend on Dec 31, 2013. TDDI converted it at a rate of 1.04517.


I also received a US ETF dividend on Dec 31, 2013. TDDI converted it at a rate of 1.04950.










This is crazy. It's the same day and yet TDDI has applied a different currency conversion rate on each of our transactions.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

all these fluctuations look a bit unreal to me.

i've had some wild TD FX fee fluctuations myself. Nevertheless i believe the FX fee itself that is charged should not fluctuate that much, theoretically speaking, because the broker should be applying the same spread rate just about all of the time to all of the transactions. The actual exchange rate will fluctuate, of course; but the broker should be charging the same profit spread for itself all of the time. Theoretically. Speaking.

an awful thought has occurred to me. Ya'll know how the so-called "auto-washing" is not being done automatically at all; but rather it's being done manually by a dedicated team working out of the TD ottawa call centre? (i do have to admit they're pretty darned accurate) (rumour has it the auto-laundry has been costing the big green an extra $1 million per year) (ottomh that figure seems too low for the lovely french laundry they are doing up.)

does anyone imagine that the FX conversions might have something of this artisanal, home-made, french laundry aspect to them? like there's some green gnome sitting there inputting the FX transactions with the speed of light, maniacally hitting as close as he can to what he thinks is the spot rate but-if-not-then-the-hell-with-it ??


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

avrex said:


> This is crazy. It's the same day and yet TDDI has applied a different currency conversion rate on each of our transactions.


obviously some differentiation in rates would be due to the time of day at which a currency conversion got processed, since the exchange rate itself varies minute by minute.

still, i'm tentatively hewing to the idea that there's a green french laundry team somewhere in there, nattily rinsing out & drying everybody's smalls by hand :biggrin:


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> obviously some differentiation in rates would be due to the time of day at which a currency conversion got processed, since the exchange rate itself varies minute by minute.


Ya, but, in my Dec 31st avrex and goldstone example above, the difference between those two TDDI rates was 1.04950-1.04517 = 0.433 %

The Bank of Canada rate didn't deviate that much, during the entire day. The difference between the High and Low of the day was 1.0650-1.0617 = 0.33 %



humble_pie said:


> still, i'm tentatively hewing to the idea that there's a green french laundry team somewhere in there, nattily rinsing out & drying everybody's smalls by hand :biggrin:


 I agree. It's as good of an explanation as any.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

avrex said:


> Ya, but, in my Dec 31st avrex and goldstone example above, the difference between those two TDDI rates was 1.04950-1.04517 = 0.433 %


I quoted 1.04517 from my Quicken records. I just checked TDDI online record on Dec 31st. They quoted 1.04950. I double-checked the actual conversion rate (CAD amount / USD amount). Got 1.04517 again.

So:

They posted one rate online (1.04950), but the actual conversion rate was different (1.04517).

It's maddening.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> but how can a body get Waterhouse charges reimbursed?
> 
> the FX fees on USD dividends in rrsp/tfsa are not set out as separate charges. What the TD shows on a web account is the exchange rate they applied to a particular dividend conversion. They don't even show this information on statements, although imho they should.
> 
> ...


He was referring to the fees for buying and selling not the FOREX fees ,in my case the trading fees are probably higher than forex but he did not want me to take $100,000 cash to another bank .It is a pain for him too but managers have ways of giving clients free service charges like my Biz account monthly fees etc to keep us happy.He gave me a few hundred a year in bank fees back that's all .I don't have the time to figure out the forex fees but here's hoping they will figure things out in a year or two.And yes I have to take him my statements to show him the fees and he will do a credit memo for me , probably will go in every 3-4 months as I rarely go into a bank but they certainly know who I am.


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## icon (Nov 25, 2013)

So just to confirm, are US ETFs (like VTI, VEA, etc) supposed to have DRIPs now auto washed at TDDI? I just phoned today (to inquire about something else) and when I asked about USD dividends, was told they aren't part of the auto wash. At least if I understood what the rep was meaning correctly.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

We believe that the DRIP part of the transaction is auto washed (i.e. they're not dinging you for exchange on the DRIP) but the leftovers will be charged forex.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spudd said:


> We believe that the DRIP part of the transaction is auto washed (i.e. they're not dinging you for exchange on the DRIP) but the leftovers will be charged forex.



unfortunately this is not working at all for the 20 leading canadian companies that pay their dividends in USD. The potashes, goldcorps, encanas, agriums, constellation softwares, thomson reuters et al.

DRIP dividends from these 20 companies are still being charged full FX in tddi rrsp. The patch doesn't work for these DRIP dividends, at least not yet.

altogether, a big disappointment. Failure to convert all dividends at spot rates is a huge disappointment. Introduction of a loathsome scheme whereby important or valuable clients can phone per dividend to get it injected into US money market without FX fee - but other clients don't have access to this cumbersome service - is odious.

the TD is now the only top-5 bank-owned broker that is still charging FX fees on most USD dividends in registered accounts.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Xoron said:


> Exactly, that's an enormous burden to put on the call center staff. On top of that, who knows when the payable date is anyway? My wife and I hold some common stocks (CIBC IE for me, TDWH for her) and our payable dates never line up. TD is always later than CIBC. So how is one to know WHEN a dividend is payable? Pray to the almighty gods that you call on the correct day before the div payout? Or just have a standing open line to the TD agents "Might be a dividend coming in tomorrow, can you check on that for me?"


I'm back! Just came from CIBC Achievers annual week at Cancun (Grand Velas 5 dimond resort) and all for free...CIBC pays 
Xoron, you are right about different payment dates (real one!). I get SU in CIBC account 3 -3.5 weks earlier than SU in TDDI. XIU, XMA dividends in CIBC are always 2 weeks (at least) earlier than in TDDI. I don't understand why and no one from TD guys couldn't answer this question


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> Started the process of moving today.
> 
> First step, had to phone in to learn the elected annual payout for 2014 on my RRIF and sold enough e-series to cover it.
> Next step, once that trade closes, withdraw the cash payment, & switch the remaining e-series to plain index funds.
> Then off to CIBC IE it goes, bye bye greedy green


Now, after I'm back from vacation, will start to move my TDDI account to other 5 I hold with CIBC. Will redeem TDB908 (NASDAQ e-series) and after transfer buy QQQ.
Also will try to negotiate with CIBC some free trades in addition to transfer out fees reimbursment.
Also,, reagarding admin fees and prefered 6.95 rates, I will advise to send emaul to CIBC IE, they are pretty flexible in giving you goodies when you transfer accounts (did it when transfer LIRA and RRSP from GWL)
HP, to call TDDI - it's already adventure  last 2 calls to TDDI Iwas waiting 30 and 40 min on the line until I got an answers.... CIBC are always answer much faster


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> unfortunately this is not working at all for the 20 leading canadian companies that pay their dividends in USD. The potashes, goldcorps, encanas, agriums, constellation softwares, thomson reuters et al.
> 
> DRIP dividends from these 20 companies are still being charged full FX in tddi rrsp. The patch doesn't work for these DRIP dividends, at least not yet.
> 
> ...


I need to vote with my wallet and leave. I was hoping things would improve but I can't wait any longer, getting too expensive not to switch.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

avrex said:


> Agreed. I need to mull over those issues that you cited. (I currently have 2 RRSPs and 2 TFSAs and all of my banking with TD.)


There are some other resason I consider:
First of all no one will guarantee you that USD RRSP at TD will be in 2015.
Trading fees in TD 9.999 and in CIBC 6.95
For every TD US wash you pay $20 on fees, no need in gambit in CIBC
I always get dividends on CIBC accounts earlier that in TD by 2-3 weeks, for big $$$ accounts it can be significant delay.
Transactions search in CIBC 1000 times better thatn in TD (who doesn't have search at all)


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Going in to CIBC tomorrow to see about moving my two older children's accounts over. 2 TFSAs, 2 RRSPs, and two non-registered accounts. I could move the RESP over too I suppose but I'll see how it goes.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

When you are doing FX rates calculations don't forget that in some cases its can be calclulated by FX rate on record date . I did calculations now on 2 US ETF when payment date is the same (Dec 31).

I got for CIBC ETF FX rate	1.063357546, BoC noon rate for payment date 1.0636	(practically the same) and if I go by record date (Dec 27) it's 1.0697 - a little higher but still pretty good


Another ETF dividend for TDDI , TDDI quated FX rate 1.0495, but when I calculated by myself I got 1.0493 (any fee on fee ?)	
BoC noon rate for Payment date dec 31 is 1.0636 and for record date Dec 17 - 1.061. Sux for both dates as it ranges from 1.11 to 1.36 % fees


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... so if I may ask - what are the possibilities for moving money in/out of CIBC IE?


Just got off the phone and it seems it's no problem to link a non CIBC account to CIBC DI.

With a CIBC bank account the money moved will be instant, but if I understand correctly,
with a non-CIBC bank account, the money moved in is instant, but the money moved out may take a day or two.

I'll have to follow up on that question actually, because when talking I understood it to mean into and out of the brokerage, but giving it a little thought it actually makes more sense if he really meant into and out of the external bank account.

Main point being, external link possible, but with CIBC bank acct, faster transaction time.

On the subject of signing bonuses with CIBC DI, although they do not presently have an official program running at the moment, I've found that they are readily negotiable to covering transfer out costs plus a bonus plus free trades.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> On the subject of signing bonuses with CIBC DI, although they do not presently have an official program running at the moment, I've found that they are readily negotiable to covering transfer out costs plus a bonus plus free trades.


The sales manager said that this is standard offer for any external transfer in for $50,000 or more


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## ykhehra1 (Aug 22, 2014)

I am thinking to move RRSPs & TFSAs from CIBC to RBC for USD account and easy NG. But after reading that CIBC is doing spot conversion with spread/fees I get stuck on fence now. I have CIBC preferred $6.** rate. So is there any real benefit to move RBC or should I stay with CIBC?


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## ykhehra1 (Aug 22, 2014)

I was thinking to move RRSPs and TFSAs to RBC from CIBC for US hold and easy NG. but after reading that CIBC do conversion without spread/fees I get stuck on fence. Is there still any benefit to move RBC DI or should I stay with CIBC (I have there preferred $6.** rate) ? and how CIBC deal with dividends from US shares? Thanks


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