# auto insurance, loss of use/unowned vehicle



## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

hi everyone,

auto insurance renewal time again. some of you may have come upon the OPCF20/27 physical damage extension options for your auto insurance policy. this provides you with a rental vehicle if your vehicle is being repaired (up to $1500), and liability insurance in case you get into an accident driving a leased, rented, vehicle that you don't own (up to $50,000).

it costs me about 50 bucks a year.

is this really necessary? we have a 2003 and 2008 (wife) honda accord. the 03 has 330k on it, i will probably have to replace it in the near future. in a pinch, i could probably use my wife's car for a short period if i lost the use of my car; she works close by and i can drop her off while i look for a replacement vehicle. 

it seems like it's only 50 bucks, but all these different options add up and my goal is to not pay for things i don't think are necessary (e.g. i'm using a 5 year old flip phone with a basic cellular plan, costs me 30 bucks, i'm all in to tech but i'm not into waste and i'm not paying rogers 80 bucks a month for data and hundreds for a phone that will become obsolete in 6 months).

and as far as rental vehicles...i never drive an unowned vehicle. if i did, there would be insurance associated with that vehicle (that would be purchased). wouldn't it?

any thoughts?

thanks


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

The rental car piece is just liability? That seems unnecessary - I think that by law, rental car agencies have to provide liability insurance in the price of the rental. 

For the other one, if you can get by with one car while one is in the shop, then by all means I would drop the coverage for that. 

BTW, on your cellphone have you looked at moving to pay as you go? If you don't use it much, you could probably get by with a $10/month plan instead of $30/month.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

The rental car charge is totally worth it. Think about it. You've just been in a wreck on the other side of town or province and the circus of first responders is on scene, including a tow truck who will take your car away. Without the rental car people being called to bring you a car, what will you do? Walk home? It could take weeks for your car to get fixed.

IMO the $50 cost for rental car in case of accident is totally worth it. If you've rented a car for any length of time you know that is a bargain. I see no reason to add this much inconvenience to your life for the matter of $50 a year. 

As for the rental car insurance, all cars include basic liability by law but that won't cover very much. So, if you rent a car when you're on vacation someplace you will need some type of insurance, either through your credit card, your existing insurance or pay for the rental car company's insurance. They make a lot of money on the latter and it's a real minefield. Better off renting a car with your own insurance. If it's included in that $50 deal you mention (in addition to the rental car charge in case of accident discussed above), that's a bargain. Just make sure you bring the claim/policy number details and paperwork with you when travelling and renting car. You will need that in case of accident.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> The rental car piece is just liability? That seems unnecessary - I think that by law, rental car agencies have to provide liability insurance in the price of the rental.


By law the rental agencies have to have 3rd party liability..but collision is another matter. That is an option that they soak the renter for on a daily basis.




> BTW, on your cellphone have you looked at moving to pay as you go? If you don't use it much, you could probably get by with a $10/month plan instead of $30/month.


I'm going this way on my cellphone. It's $10 a month minimum charge to keep the line available for you + taxes. Any calls are charged at 20c a minute, so
you need to top up as you make calls on it..or end up in a situation where you can't make an emergency call (911)..so beware.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> The rental car charge is totally worth it. Think about it. You've just been in a wreck on the other side of town or province and the circus of first responders is on scene, including a tow truck who will take your car away. Without the rental car people being called to bring you a car, what will you do? Walk home? It could take weeks for your car to get fixed.


Some times the tow truck driver can give you a ride to where your car is being dropped off..but this depends on their liability insurance as well.



> As for the rental car insurance, all cars include basic liability by law but that won't cover very much. So, if you rent a car when you're on vacation someplace you will need some type of insurance, either through your credit card, your existing insurance or pay for the rental car company's insurance. They make a lot of money on the latter and it's a real minefield. Better off renting a car with your own insurance. If it's included in that $50 deal you mention (in addition to the rental car charge in case of accident discussed above), that's a bargain. Just make sure you bring the claim/policy number details and paperwork with you when travelling and renting car. You will need that in case of accident.


That doesn't always work either. A few years ago, I rented a car in Florida. I had the extra coverage for a rental car at the time and I had my pink slip with me with the policy number.
As it may happen, I had a minor fender bender, where a car pulled out in front of me (from a curb and obscured by the car next to me that waved the driver to procced), in a multilane street. Not seeing the car and having it pull out in front of me past the vehicle next to me, I hit the drivers rear panel because I couldn't stop in time. The cops were called and I got an accident report. 

My rental car was still drivable, being only body damage. When I returned it to the rental agency at the end of the trip, and mentioned the damage, my Canadian insurance policy with the rental car rider on it, the American rental agency said they w*ould not honour my rental car insurance policy because "it's too hard to collect from a foreign insurance* company", so they wanted me to put a $500 damage deposit on the spot with my CC. 
They said that IF the accident investigation determined that I was completely (100%) not at fault, they would credit my CC with the $500.

So beware! If travelling in the US, maybe it's better to just pay their daily collision charge, than be stuck with huge collision damage charges if you get into an accident.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> The rental car charge is totally worth it. Think about it. You've just been in a wreck on the other side of town or province and the circus of first responders is on scene, including a tow truck who will take your car away. Without the rental car people being called to bring you a car, what will you do? Walk home? It could take weeks for your car to get fixed.
> 
> IMO the $50 cost for rental car in case of accident is totally worth it. If you've rented a car for any length of time you know that is a bargain. I see no reason to add this much inconvenience to your life for the matter of $50 a year.


Assuming my friends or family aren't coming to get me I could ... Pay for it? Take a cab? I haven't needed that specific service in 20+ years of driving. 

To the OP: We carried a replacement rental vehicle insurance when we needed a vehicle that could move the kids and we either had only one car or our second vehicle (truck) didn't have a back seat. Renting a minivan or something that fits three car seats (try that in a rental Yaris) is pricey and we wanted to be sure that aspect of our lives was covered. As soon as we added a second vehicle that could move the family, albeit less convenient, we dropped it.


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

Makes me wonder what I would do in that situation.

Id most likely tell them, that my insurance will cover it and there is no way I'm putting a deposit of 500$ down with no evaluation or exact price on that damages.

They have all my information and to contact me once the report is completed and that I'll either cover the cost or my insurance will.

What are they going to do? Its not like they can call the police on you for a contractual matter like that, all they can do is bring you to court, which would be to0 costly for them in any case.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

$50/year. I've been driving 30 years and have never needed a rental to replace a wreck. So there's $1500 I can use towards a rental if I need one.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

joncnca said:


> provides you with a rental vehicle if your vehicle is being repaired


and if you're vehicle is a write-off? and not being repaired?

do you get a rental to use for car shopping? 

I suspect not. It's lottery insurance... spin the wheel and see if your particular accident fits the narrow definition of the repairable wreck. 

If it's a minor fender bender, the body shop will probably drop you off at work. If it's a major crash, the car will get written and you're walking anyways.

I'll keep my $50 and use it for quick-picks.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

hystat said:


> and if you're vehicle is a write-off? and not being repaired?
> 
> do you get a rental to use for car shopping?
> 
> ...


Even if it is a write off you will have access to a rental car. I made the mistake of not having comprehensive as my car was old and would be a write off anyway; however, I found out that because I did not have comprehensive, the insurance company did not cover the cost of towing the car to a collision center nor cover a temporary rental. Even a rental of a few days would be somewhat useful. After all, they do not assess that it is a write-off until the adjuster comes into play and that could take a few days.


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

thanks for all the personal experiences everyone. this is one of those frustrations that i have with the insurance industry in general, and it comes about almost every year...

i guess the rental car coverage could be handy if something actually does happen, that's kind of the point of insurance... 

i'm also skeptical about US (or other) rental companies honoring my canadian insurance policy...plus, i can't fathom renting a car on vacation. i always take some kind of transit cause i don't really want to drive outside of canada. i like transit, i like being a passenger.

$50 per car over 12 months is like $4 per month...it's not breaking the bank, but i feel like i'm getting screwed by the auto insurance industry as they prey on my vehicular consternation and that bothers me, haha, anyone else feel like that? cause i too feel like i'm going to end up carrying it for 30 years and never use it...


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

We got hit 5 times YES FIVE times in less than a nine month timer frame. For us the extra coverage was worth it. In all cases, we were not at fault.

First time, we were in the US in rental car. We were stopped on the highway in traffic, and got rear ended. Our insurance took care of everything, which was good because it was stressful enough as it is. The car rental company tried to come after us for damages even though the highway patrol deemed the other guy at fault. The second time we got rear ended, our car wa sin the shop for 4 weeks. We had a rental, then the rental had a broken windshield due to a rock chip and the weather, our insurance covered both. Then our other vehicle while parked got hit by two different people on the same night, and then we needed the rental for the week. And finally we got hit on the high way again as some slide into us, again we need the rental.


In our case with both my spouse and I needing our car for work, and the different pick up and drop off with the kids, we need two if not all three vehicles running. We used the car rental coverage in 6 different cases in five accidents. I thn we got our money's worth. Though I still hate dealing with insurance.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Most auto body places give you a free courtesy car. Loss of use is not needed. .


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi Jon, have you ever rented a car for 3 weeks before? The bill for that comes to a lot more than $50. So you are right that this is very cheap insurance. I have had to use this service twice now and at the time when you're distraught from an accident and are standing at a cold intersection far from home you will appreciate having a late model rental car (or van etc if that's what you normally drive and need for family etc) delivered to you on the spot. I would never dream of searching for a payphone at that point and trying to bother friends or family who are busy with their own lives. These people are not a taxi service. As well, taxis are very expensive and if you live say in Pickering and are in an accident in Milton, you'll have one heck of a taxi bill to pay, not to mention the inconvenience. For $50 a year you have to peace of mind knowing you're on your way as soon as you finish your business at the scene and carry on with your day as before.

Renting cars while travelling is very common. People who travel for their jobs do this all the time. That's why there are car rental agencies near most airports. If you don't feel you need this you can talk to your insurance agent about it (as you really should for all of these types of questions) but you won't save very much by not having this on your policy. Also, I believe the rental car insurance that comes with some credit cards covers Internationally but that's a quick 5 min call to your agent and you'll know for sure.

The costs for these two items is minor compared to the overall cost of insurance for a year. Just go with the flow on this. If you ever need these services you'll regret skimping on a tiny $50 charge. How much do you spend on cell phones and other insurance in a year?


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Check also to see if you already have a cc carrying rental car coverage. If you have a premium card, you may be paying twice for the same thing.

Along that line, if you do rent cars often our contact person at the bank recommends keeping a separate credit card account with a lower limit than your main card specifically for this. The reason being is that in the case of an accident some rental car companies will charge the card first and wait for insurance to reimburse you - up to the replacement cost of the vehicle! One of the things on my to do list is to get a no fee Visa that our bank offers with rental coverage and keep the limit below $5000.


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

thanks for all the replies, everyone. you've convinced me, i'm leaving the rental car coverage on, $50 per year per car is pretty low...i calculated wrong in my last post, that's less than $1 per week....haha.

the-royal-mail, thanks for always keeping me on the more conservative path a lot of the time, it offsets some of the more outrageous things i do, ahah.

plugging along, that's nuts, you should get a big hummer so people stay away from you. i hope you don't live near me, drive a similar car, go with the same company, or have a similar driver profile to me because you'd be driving my insurance premiums up, even though you were not at fault!

prairie_guy, my mechanic doesn't have loaners.

maybe later, my CC does have rental car insurance (i think, it's been a while since i read the terms), anyone know offhand for the mbna smartcash? doesn't cost anything. if i get into an accident that's not my fault in a rental car, and use CC insurance, do they notify my regular auto insurance? does this affect me at all?

i don't believe this rental car policy would work if i rented a car for work, it wouldn't apply if i'm driving a car for business purposes. that's why they sell you insurance on a rental car for work.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm not sure about the work related rental... I think that would still be covered with a gold card type Visa or MC.

What isn't covered though, is a truck. The premium card coverage is for a car or mini van... no pickups, no commercial vehicles. You need to buy the collision/comp etc with the rental unless you have a specific binder on your auto policy that extends your coverage to renting commercial vehicles. .


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

joncnca said:


> plugging along, that's nuts, you should get a big hummer so people stay away from you. i hope you don't live near me, drive a similar car, go with the same company, or have a similar driver profile to me because you'd be driving my insurance premiums up, even though you were not at fault!
> 
> prairie_guy, my mechanic doesn't have loaners.
> 
> ...


I don't want a hummer because that would just become a bigger target for people. I had to double check on my car to make sure there really wasn't a target it somewhere. I was told that there wouldn't be any increase to our premiums but we'll have to wait and see. 

I have used rental cars for work, and the credit card insurance will apply. However, you will have to be careful, there are many rules with the rental car and the credit card companies. On the first accident, even though it wasn't our fault, and our credit card company would have covered it, there was actually alot more hassle, so we ended going up through our own insurance.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

"No fault" insurance has nothing to do with what charges the police may have laid.

It simply means that each insurance company will pay the damages for their insured driver, and then determine the % of "fault" between them.

There are over 40 different scenarios which outline the degree of fault, which are used by the insurance companies.

If they assign any % of fault to their driver...........their insurance rates will be affected.

It all sounds like a fair and equitable system...........until one realizes that by accepting even the smallest % of fault for their insured driver, both insurance companies have the opportunity to raise the premiums on both the drivers.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

sags said:


> "No fault" insurance has nothing to do with what charges the police may have laid.
> 
> It simply means that each insurance company will pay the damages for their insured driver, and then determine the % of "fault" between them.
> 
> ...


I should have said........that police charges don't determine the degree of fault...but may have some bearing on the insurance company decision.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

sags said:


> "No fault" insurance has nothing to do with what charges the police may have laid.
> 
> It simply means that each insurance company will pay the damages for their insured driver, and then determine the % of "fault" between them.
> 
> ...


I should have said........that police charges don't determine the degree of fault...but may have some bearing on the insurance company decision.

http://www.ibc.ca/en/car_insurance/on/no_fault.asp

Also on the news today...........insurance companies won the right to charge older drivers a higher "premium" despite their driving records.

They will now be grouped into a high risk category, similar to under 25 drivers.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

sags said:


> I should have said........that police charges don't determine the degree of fault...but may have some bearing on the insurance company decision.
> 
> http://www.ibc.ca/en/car_insurance/on/no_fault.asp
> 
> ...


http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...premiums-for-elderly-drivers-rights-tribunal/


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