# Airline Trouble



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Upon returning from Orlando for Christmas I thought I would vent on here and share my experience.

My wife and I were to fly out Dec. 21 on a United Flight, and return on Dec. 26th on an Air Canada flight, we booked the flights in April 2012.

Unfortunately our departure flight was cancelled out of Toronto, as there was bad weather in the Mid East US where the plane was coming in from. We were put on stand-by for a 10:15am flight which left late at 12:30pm, and we didn't get on. then we actually got on a 3pm flight, that ended up leaving around 5:30pm, getting us to Cleveland. Where we waited an hour, got on another plane, only to sit on the runway for another hour, waiting for another plane to drop off more passengers for our flight on to Orlando.

It is crappy to get up at 3:20am, and to receive an automated call (of course it was automated!) at 4am telling us (just as we were locking the door) that our flight was cancelled. We finally made it to our destination and into bed at 2:20am on Dec. 22. Day 1 wasted at the airport, and after 23 hours awake, Day 2 was wasted sleeping.

I don't mind that our departure flight got cancelled or that we didn't get on the stand-by flight, unfortunately we cannot control the weather, and these things do happens.

I called my TDforexpedia rep the day before to confirm our Air Canada return flight, just to be safe, as there were cancellations with our departure flight. The rep said not to worry we were sitting together on the Air Canada flight and it was scheduled to leave on time, but they did think it was odd that it appeared that United had also put us on one of their return flights as well, the rep assured me he would take take care of it and call Untied directly.

What does bother me is that somehow the United agent at the airport desk, in their efforts to get us on an outgoing flight on Dec. 21st, clicked to put us on a return United flight also. 

When we arrived at the Air Canada desk in the Orlando airport when the agent told us that we were booked on our departing flight, but that United would not release our ticket (apparently this is how travel, with multiple airlines is done, so that each airline can get paid their portion) as United thought we should be on one of their flights.

We had to run to another terminal, get a release, then run back to the other terminal to get our boarding passes issued from Air Canada. The United rep thought I was being difficult as I coudn't provide any documentation, confimration numbers or anything other than our names, for her to look up our informaiton on the outgoing untied flight. Really, how would I have a confirmation number for a flight that I don't have? Crazy. Basically United delayed until their flight (that apparently was not a direct flight) took off, then they released our tickets to us to physically take to Air Canada in the other terminal.

Air Canada, was great, as we had less than an hour to get on our flight, and technically had not checked in, they sent a rep with us to bypass the lines, and to use the staff check in and such to get us to our gate on time.

Of course I have sent an email to our TDforexpedia agents to ask them if there is anything they can do with their computer systems to ascertain that tickets with multiple airlines do in fact get released to the next airline, or that any corrections get made. Do I expect any reimbursement for my stress. No. But hopefully my complaint will help future travellers avoid this stressful situation.

I have no idea how we can get put on another filght with out our knowing, or how my travel agent cannot know, inform or correct something like this. Shouldn't they be alerted when changes are made. I did my part by calling to double check the day before my flight.

We are also wondering, as the flights were pretty close in times....if the United rep was trying to poach business from Air Canada (or any other airline for that matter). I know that the airline industry is competive, but that does seem a little bit of a dirty play.

Hoping that the rest of you had better Christmas Holidays than we did!


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

I can sympathize. I do some travel to the US for business once in a while. I shudder each time I have to take a United flight. Longest delays I've ever experienced. Travelling with Air Canada, or West Jet is a pleasure in comparison.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Now I know why I only look for direct flights.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Daniel A. said:


> Now I know why I only look for direct flights.


He may have had a direct flight.
Airlines can easily route you via a different destination during bad weather or other disruptions.
Happens all the time.
They will tell you that you can either keep waiting at the airport for a direct flight to open up (whenever that happens) or accept a different route with a stop-over.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

This, (which you've probably seen before), is how one guy addressed his airline problems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Cal said:


> We finally made it to our destination and into bed at 2:20am on Dec. 22. Day 1 wasted at the airport, and after 23 hours awake, Day 2 was wasted sleeping.


Sorry to hear, but I hope you enjoyed your remaining 2 days [2.5?] in Orlando.

*Nemo:* funny video!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> This, (which you've probably seen before), is how one guy addressed his airline problems:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo


I remember that incident. Not surprised with the airline baggage handlers these days....all they need to do is drop the guitar case on it's end and if the guitar is still tuned up..goodbye headstock. 
Gibson guitars are most vulnerable to headstock breakage.

I have a couple $2500 guitars. There is no way I would trust ANY airline to get my babies to my destination
without some possible damage. 

You need a special or metal transit case, reinforced with heavy duty corners and lots of eggcrate foam inside
for the airlines. 
http://www.casextreme.com/index.php

Nice song...it should have made the top ten back when.


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

*Holiday Travel On U.S. Airlines With The Unhappiest Employees (INFOGRAPHIC) *


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

LOL Nemo, I had not seen that. Very funny.

Yes, sorry if I was unclear above, but our returning flight on AC was a direct flight, the one that United somehow thought we had was not. I have no idea what they were thinking or what they did to cause the confusion.

Even if United offers any compensation for our troubles, we probably won't fly w them again. You had to pay to watch anything on the tv's, vs on Air Canada we had several new releases to choose from for free.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Cal said:


> Even if United offers any compensation for our troubles, we probably won't fly w them again.


Unfortunately, United and Air Canada have a partnership/code-sharing.
United flights are listed on Air Canada's website just like regular AC flights.
Often when you search through travelocity, the United flights also come up as AC flights.

I fly to the US often for work and our travel agency has discount pricing for Air Canada.
Therefore, I have fallen into this trap a couple of times in the past.
Since then, I have figured out how to avoid United flights while booking on Air Canada.

As an example, you can distinguish them by the flight numbers.
Air Canada flights have 3 digit numbers, while United has 4 digits.
Anytime you see a 4 digit flight number listed around other 3 digit flights, you can be sure it is United.

Also, AC flights to most common destinations have a pattern such as every 30 mins. or every 1 hr.
If you see a flight or two in there that are not in the pattern, such as 15 mins. after the previous flight or 40 mins. after, etc. that is probably not AC.



> You had to pay to watch anything on the tv's, vs on Air Canada we had several new releases to choose from for free.


The 2 times I got sucked into a United flight instead of AC, there was no entertainment, paid or not.
The seatbacks didn't even have TVs - what is this? 1980?

On AC, I _always_ check what movies are playing, and plan what I am going to watch in which flight:
http://enroute.aircanada.com/en/entertainment


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

We flew United and the experience was horrible. They charged us two extra bag fees since our luggage was "too big" (this is normal size and weight!)
Then they LOST our luggage. Took them 8 hours to find and deliver it. The lady was so rude, no empathy, showed no interest, just treated us like a transaction. Could not even reassure us the luggage would be found and failed to offer any an explanation. I could have talked to the brick wall. 

I called their 1800 number to complain, nobody on the phone seemed to care. Finally I emailed customer service, and received a refund for the baggage fee and $200 in flight vouchers that expired. 

Also have flown Westjet several times; no problems and staff was quite pleasant.
So ya, beware with United.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Unfortunately, for most carriers (not just United) - all the "legs" of a round trip are connected, and if you do not fly the first leg of the trip, your ticket for all subsequent legs will be voided (which is why United would have rebooked you on a return leg). That does sound really cruddy though. 

Yesterday's New York Times "The Haggler" column deals with a similar situation, but I can't find the column online (I get the physical paper delivered!)


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> Yesterday's New York Times "The Haggler" column deals with a similar situation, but I can't find the column online (I get the physical paper delivered!)


This?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/your-money/a-missed-flight-and-a-4586-travel-nightmare.html?_r=0


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

That's the one! My google-fu failed me.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I always fly with no stops if I can .I am going on cruise from San Juan in April and currently all flights have a terminal changes in USA.Praying that in couple months Air Canada will offer the direct flights on more days as right now it is only on Sunday.I travel with my own wheelchair so that is my worst fear if the chair does not get put at the gate.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

marina628 said:


> I always fly with no stops if I can .I am going on cruise from San Juan in April and currently all flights have a terminal changes in USA.Praying that in couple months Air Canada will offer the direct flights on more days as right now it is only on Sunday.I travel with my own wheelchair so that is my worst fear if the chair does not get put at the gate.


Tip from a frequent flier: take a picture of your gate-checked luggage (and ANY checked luggage) on your smartphone. Useful to quickly show an agent what you are looking for in case a piece of luggage goes astray.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

The issue is my chair is a custom chair made for me ,they should have it at the plane waiting for me instead of making me go into one of their then go to baggage and pray my chair shows up.British Airways is the worst ,last time we travelled with them ,they threw me on a bench in Heathrow without even a loaner chair.


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## Pickering (Jun 24, 2011)

I got one - even the airlines had never heard of - flying US Airways Toronto - Orlando with a stop at Reagan in Washington.

US Airways lost my carry-on bag !!! I know - passengers loss carry-on not the airline - NOPE

Combination of Reagan (proximity to White House and Capital) and small jet - They took carry-on away at the door of the plane (without notice ) my bag got left on the tarmac - since it was not checked - it had no bag tag with bar code etc.

Took 5 days for us to be re-united. So much for all those announcements about unattended bags - sitting alone on the tarmac ?

All in all , US Airways handled it well - paid my costs - no question !


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Pickering said:


> US Airways lost my carry-on bag !!! I know - passengers loss carry-on not the airline - NOPE.


Don't understand this one. How could US-"less" air lose your carry-on? A carry-on is just what it means.. carry it on/carry it off the plane
unless you forgot it in the overhead bins on the jet?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

"gate-checked" - not "carry-on." You can't (post 9/11) gate-check a package without a baggage tag provided by the airline.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

carverman said:


> Don't understand this one. How could US-"less" air lose your carry-on? A carry-on is just what it means.. carry it on/carry it off the plane
> unless you forgot it in the overhead bins on the jet?


On some of the smaller planes for short flights (like between Vancouver and Seattle), there is no overhead bin.
They check in all bags, incl. carry ons.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> On some of the *smaller planes *for short flights (like between Vancouver and Seattle), there is no overhead bin.
> They check in all bags, incl. carry ons.


 ... correct, a turbo-prop-plane that's just one grade above a Cessna with a tiny-seated WC (yuck) ... free turbulence all the way :eek2:!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... correct, a turbo-prop-plane that's just one grade above a Cessna with a tiny-seated WC (yuck) ... free turbulence all the way :eek2:!


What did you expect for shorter flights, the expansive interior & incomparable relaxation that the engine of the Bombardier Challenger 850 aircraft offers? :tongue-new:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ah you guys are so spoiled with the convience of flying airlines! :biggrin:

Speaking of small planes..I think I probably have travelled the least comfortable of any youse CMFers.

Back in the 90s, working for Nortel, there was a serious problem in Cochrane Ont with the town's telephone exchange.
Since it was an emergency, I being an expert in those matters was instructed to book a charter flight at the Ottawa
airport (private area) to fly out there with my assistant and test equipment. This was around the 10th of January..
very cold, like it is now. We got into the twin engine Cessna and headed off to Cochrane on what was about a 5-6 hr
flight..NO washroom on this one, no food and worst of all..NO cabin heater working. Since we were not prepared,
we didn't take our artic survival boots and my toes were almost frozen when we got there..to a closed terminal.
Nobody there..not a soul to pick us up and about 6 miles out of town in the evening with the wolves
howling nearby!
Our pilot dumped us off and had to take off immediately to prevent his batteries from freezing..it was -45C!

We tried the payphone next to the terminal to call the operator to summon a taxi for us, but the receiver was frozen!
I jokingly mentioned to my buddy..well I guess this is it..they may find us two stiffs in the morning!

Somehow, between the two of us..we came up with the idea of unscrewing the carbon transmitter out of the phone and warming it up in a warm pocket of our parkas. After about 15 minutes, we tried to phone again and this time the operator was able to hear us to summon a taxi to pickus up. Boy where we ever glad to get into that warm taxi and get into the hotel. I must have spent an hour in the shower trying to warm up and fortunately, neither one of us lost any toes due to our ordeal, because help finally arrived.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> What did you expect for shorter flights, the expansive interior & incomparable relaxation that the engine of the Bombardier Challenger 850 aircraft offers?


An Airbus A380 luxury liner would have been nice for a 1 hr. flight.










They could drive instead of flying.
Would be a nice sight - an A380 cruising down the I-95 from DC to Orlando


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

*TO.Gal: *


> What did you expect for shorter flights, the expansive interior & incomparable relaxation that the engine of the Bombardier Challenger 850 aircraft offers?


Now only if I can invest like Warren Buffett, I can buy one of those jets to ride in ... yes, I'm dreaming again, sigh. :stupid:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Champagne flight. It's amazing what those flying first class have to put up with!:biggrin:


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> *TO.Gal: *
> 
> Now only if I can invest like Warren Buffett, I can buy one of those jets to ride in ...


Hey, I told you to buy/trade BAC long ago, but you said you did not have $USD. :biggrin:

*Carverman:* what a funny story, not! :frown: I'm glad you survived though.

*Harold:* sure you can dream! :wink:


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Champagne flight. It's amazing what those flying first class have to put up with!:biggrin:


Business class is not bad at all either. 

You get lots of special attention there too; they remove your coat; greet you with champagne; get a special menu [I kept one from Air France]; give you socks/a sleep mask and other goodies you get to keep, lol.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> ... Since we were not prepared, we didn't take our artic survival boots and my toes were almost frozen when we got there..to a closed terminal.
> Nobody there..not a soul to pick us up and about 6 miles out of town in the evening with the wolves
> howling nearby!
> 
> ...


 .... wow, that's a really nasty experience :upset: Hope you got a nice year-end bonus or a nice token of appreciation for "going out of your way" on this. 

*HaroldC:*


> ... Would be a nice sight - an A380 cruising down the I-95 from DC to Orlando


 ... lol ... would be a sight indeed.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Not as exciting as Carverman's tale of derring-do, and a hell of a lot warmer, but this is about the smallest plane I've been in:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Those look like hurricane clowds, Nemo.
You better fly out fast, because that Cessna 172 will be like a dry leaf when that storm hits.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Hmmm, Moremi Air....is that the Cessna that crashed last year Nemo?

Doesn't Africa hold the worst air safety record in the world? Or is it Russia/Saudi-Arabia?

No thanks, and yes, I guess I'm spoiled [I realize that even the Concorde crashed].


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> Those look like hurricane clowds, Nemo.
> You better fly out fast, because that Cessna 172 will be like a dry leaf when that storm hits.


We just landed......the pilot was getting ready to leave when we took the pic.....and the storm clouds were closing in from either side just prior to us touching down.....


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> *Carverman:* what a funny story, not! :frown: I'm glad you survived though.


Yes, that was what they would call a "close one", next to my motorcycle crash on a curve..another story and nothing
to do with this topic of airlines and flying. The ordeal on the charted small plane was just to get up there toute-de-suite.
Had to take the Greyhound back from Cochrane to Ottawa..took us the entire day, but at least we were warm and the bus driver knew the route back. :biggrin:



> *Harold:* sure you can dream! :wink:


Unless he's as rich as.. Hugh Hefner (86) of course, who just married that sweet little 26 year old Playboy centerfold..he wouldn't have any use for such lavish airline accomodations.:biggrin:


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> Hmmm, Moremi Air....is that the Cessna that crashed last year Nemo?
> 
> Doesn't Africa hold the worst air safety record in the world? Or is it Russia/Saudi-Arabia?
> 
> No thanks, and yes, I guess I'm spoiled [I realize that even the Concorde crashed].


Yes.....Moremi is a small, pretty close knit, airline, (the pilots are generally South Africans, Brits, Canadians, Irish, etc, all trying to get their 'air hours' up), they have a great record and were all apparently 'devastated' about the crash.

Our next flight, to another camp three days later, was in a slightly larger plane, flown by a young Irish guy........when we landed there, about 6km from the camp, there was no-one to pick us up, (shades of Carverman), and the pilot said he couldn't leave us, (lions and the like), and he couldn't wait, (since he was on a schedule), so he told us, (just my wife & I), to leave our bags by the runway, get back in the plane, and he'd buzz the camp to let them know we were there.

Shades of _Apocalypse Now_........FUN, or what? We wanted him to do it again, but he was concerned about being reported.

We we finally arrived in camp, one of the other guests, who was with the R.A.F., asked "Was that you in that plane? Boy, you came in close!"


- IIRC _Royal Air Maroc_ had, at one time, the worst safety record.

- _Air France_, (which you mentioned upthread).....while we were in Riyadh my late wife and a partner had the 'contract' for selling A.F. tickets on our compound, (and others); our flights were 'free', (and often/generally routed through Paris), with the tickets being stamped "Upgrade if Available".......consequently we flew First Class more often than not. (I wouldn't spend _my_ money on it, but it was an nice perq while it lasted.)


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Air France - LOL. I have been booked on AF flights several times (for work, not personal choice), but only managed to fly them once (from Dulles to Paris).
All other times, I got re-booked on some other airline because of strikes or job actions by some or other Air France staff.
Sometimes pilots, baggage handlers, air crew, or everyone.
I got re-booked on Swiss Air (before they went bankrupt), Northwest, and British Airways.
So out of say 5 times, I managed to fly them once.

I believe at some point they got into a partnership with Delta for all US flights and things improved after that.
By improved I mean the planes actually started flying, I didn't mean the service improved :rolleyes2:


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Flew _Olympic_ once......Athens - Madrid 1988, (comped thanks to some packages my late wife had sold for them).......Business Class.....about on a par with 'Steerage' elsewhere.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Oh boy, flying horror stories

Those little 172's are the best for skydiving, you can just hang off the wing strut for awhile before dropping. I'd rather fly military than civilian first class any day, but the horror stories don't even compute. Put your name on your luggage and don't book your transfers 45 minutes apart and chances are you'll get it back... and if not, they'll pay for new stuff! Don't check your guitar or something without a rugged case and expect them to coddle it. Don't use travel agents.. there's really no point at all anymore. 

I flew at least 1000 hrs this year if it all counts. Let's see a cracked windshield from pressurization, smoke in the cockpit on landing, runway flash flooding on takeoff, runway crumbling apart, dogs/eagles/geese/moose, various atc nightmares, a few "near miss" during air refueling, tomahawk missiles within sight, various bad weather, 24+ hour flights, 30 year old aircraft at high performance and unfriendly weapons. It's still more comfortable than most civilian flights I've been on, and safer than the Russians I watch hauling the army gear (banging the wings into shape with hammers)

I'm always amazed at the people who don't even wear their seatbelts on flights.. trust me you might regret that! And what is it they say?... better to arrive late than not at all


Etihad is my favourite airline of late. United being the worst. Lufthansa is a good benchmark I think.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Isn't Etihad the one that slammed a $500 entry fee for all Canadian nationals last year?
Well, they can keep their airline and shove it.
There are plently more places to visit in the world.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Yup, you're right Harold.

*'In recent months, UAE officials have kicked hundreds of Canadian soldiers out of a secret military base in Dubai, threatened to keep Canadian-made BlackBerry devices out of the local market and even accused Ottawa officials of harbouring Israeli Mossad assassins. All of this has taken place amid the Conservative government's refusal to open more Canadian routes to Dubai-based airlines, after the rulers of the Persian Gulf nation thought they had built up considerable goodwill with Ottawa.'
*
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/n...teep-visa-fees/article1321614/?service=mobile

But according to Wiki, the airline has received 30+ awards, including: 1st Class Catering & Seat [Beaver would like that]. 

Given their low fuel costs, wonder if the plane tickets are inexpensive, though given the certain stamps I have on my passport, I probably would not be allowed into the UAE & other places, but thankfully I have no desire to visit such places for now.

Going back to Air France, remember this accident?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_358

It was indeed a miracle that all managed to get out, and in under 2 minutes I believe!


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Well my story is just an inconvenience compared to the OP's but on my way back from California I was Routed through Dallas and then to Toronto on a United Flight. I did not think to bring extra American cash on the plane to buy food. They wouldn't accept my canadian money. So I suffered and didn't eat for the entire flight. 

When i flew out on United they did take my Canadian Money to buy food.

I was very irritated with them to say the least. Very Bad Customer Service


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Berubeland said:


> Well my story is just an inconvenience compared to the OP's but on my way back from California I was Routed through Dallas and then to Toronto on a United Flight. I did not think to bring extra American cash on the plane to buy food. They wouldn't accept my canadian money. So I suffered and didn't eat for the entire flight.
> 
> When i flew out on United they did take my Canadian Money to buy food.
> 
> I was very irritated with them to say the least. Very Bad Customer Service


Out of curiosity how long ago was this? These days I find that they only accept credit card payments.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

mode3sour said:


> Those little 172's are the best for skydiving, you can just hang off the wing strut for awhile before dropping. .


Did that once......1978...near Guelph....landed like the proverbial sack of......


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> Isn't Etihad the one that slammed a $500 entry fee for all Canadian nationals last year?
> Well, they can keep their airline and shove it.
> There are plently more places to visit in the world.



They were just shining a light on how Canada blocks them from competing with Air Canada, but I guess the message was obscured? I'm not even pro globalization but it just seems that we only impose it on others when it suits ourselves? Needless animosity and nationalism aside, I much prefer to fly Etihad than Air Canada any day (both heavily subsidized airlines) $500 multiple-entry-visa and the airline profits are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the cost of having no where to land in the entire middle east (UAE let Canada stage an entire base in the UAE at the time)

I've been to UAE and Qatar many times this year, both work and travel (was in Abu Dhabi airport just a few days ago). They accommodate me fine even though we don't return the same gesture in a Canadian airport. I've never had any issue myself but they do still block Canadian diplomats for any reason just enough to tarnish our "everyone-likes-Canadians" rep. Multi-national aircraft have been diverted to Djibouti, or even the long way around the world, flights have been rebooked, all costing far far more than $500 because of this little feud. Their little chunk of airspace is pretty important


I think we complain most about the horid service of our telcos and airlines, but nothing will change if we shelter them from any competition


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> But according to Wiki, the airline has received 30+ awards, including: 1st Class Catering & Seat [Beaver would like that].
> 
> Given their low fuel costs, wonder if the plane tickets are inexpensive, though given the certain stamps I have on my passport, I probably would not be allowed into the UAE & other places, but thankfully I have no desire to visit such places for now.


I assumed it was more from government subsidies but now I read they "claim" they don't have subsidies. If you're in Europe and you want to travel anywhere Asian/Australian region you would probably go through Abu Dhabi or Qatar based on location. I suppose for Canadians it's not a big deal as we'd fly across the pacific, however thousands upon thousands of Canadians have moved to UAE for the $$.

I have several passports for such stamps. You don't need a UAE visa or anything to fly through their airport though


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

About 5 years ago... still if you find some sucker to buy a crappy old sandwich for $10 wouldn't you take whatever money they give you? What bugged me the most was that the flight out of Canada let me pay with Canadian money and the flight to Canada wouldn't let me pay with canadian money. 

I'm guessing those are 90% profit.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> What bugged me the most was that the flight out of Canada let me pay with Canadian money and the flight to Canada wouldn't let me pay with canadian money.


Ah poor baby!:hopelessness: The airline rules go by which country you are flying over, same with the alcohol limit
rules. I'm surprised though, that you were visiting the US and didn't bring any US cash with you for these "emergencies". :biggrin:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My sympathies to Cal.

I always found it ironic that after four years of basically flying each week to the client site, the only time I had to sleep in the airport was after changing companies, I was only flying about two times a year for training.


It also was a United flight (code share with AC) where freezing rain in Ottawa was the first/second/third delays, bad weather in Chicago was the fourth delay, too much weight in the Canadair jet for the revised Chicago landing conditions was the fifth delay, "no one willing to get off to go the next day was the sixth delay,all topped off with "we missed our takeoff window so we're waiting to be assigned a new one. Enroute, a fellow passenger lent his laptop copy of the United schedule to look at possible re-bookings - only to discover we'd be landing half an hour after the last scheduled departure for Los Angeles.

It was a culture shock to be told by the United rep "I can't do anything for you - either call the 1-800 or get in the long line for the customer service desk". The next wrinkle was that the United desk was scheduled to close at midnight where I'd gotten into line at 11:10pm. Fortunately, they stayed open so that a 2:15am I was told "you are guaranteed on a 4pm flight but in case there is room, you are on standby for a 6:10am departure". 

That's after hearing the Canadian behind me on his cell phone to the United 1-800 number say "You are kidding - It's now early Friday morning and you are telling me the next available flight is Tuesday?!?". The woman in front of me had also exclaimed "Thanks for booking me on a 2pm flight - I've been here since 8am this morning trying to get a flight."

There was no way I was going to risk going through security, especially since others in line had left the airport only to discover all of the airport hotels were full and had to come back through security to sleep in the airport.




mind_business said:


> I can sympathize. I do some travel to the US for business once in a while. I shudder each time I have to take a United flight. Longest delays I've ever experienced. Travelling with Air Canada, or West Jet is a pleasure in comparison.


I've had minor problems with both but ever time someone bitterly complains about AC, all I have to do is think about how most US airlines are dramatically worse.


Cheers


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Harold - thank youf or the info, and the link. I will check all future flights to see what airliine is really doing the flight.

Carverman - hilarious to read now, but I am sure it wasn't too funny at the time.

Berubeland - yes, airline food isn't really worth the money, I would rather wait to get to Pearson and get a Timmies bagel.

Mode3sour - are you a pilot or are the flights work related. I just can't picture a pilot announcing to the passengers 'if you look out your windows to your left you will see a tomahawk missile...' And yes, most travel agents aren't worth dealing with.

I can't remember who posted the link to the article upthread, but that is a good example not to be allowed to be moved to the side whole they move the line alone for their flights, demand to be helped at the time. We had to wait ourselves in the United line as they knew our flight was cancelled so they got everyone else in the line through, while we waited (well, it wasn't just us, everyone else scheduled on our plane was moved to the side too). Perhaps instead on missing hte next flight on stand by, we could have been on it.

I had booked another flight in October (before the recent mess) for February on US Airways, with connecting flights, as I couldn't find any direct flights to Tampa Bay on that weekend. Unfortunately I was informed this week that the airports changed the takoff/landing times and now I had an insufficient amount of time for my layover. Of course as my initial booking was with US Airways, they wanted to rebook my on one of thier flights, but non fit our schedules, so they allowed us to cancel penalty free. It took about 5 telephone calls with the agent to get this accomplished, I don't think it was on the part of US air, more that the agent themselves were not too knowledgeable. I am doubtful that they are sufficiently trained, also, different airlines probably have different procedures to follow, so I am sure it is not a simple process. Haven't received the refund on the visa yet, apparently the process can take about 2 weeks. Nothing seems simple in this industry.

I rebooked with TDforexpedia, online, they offer 24 hour telephone agent support, although once you have taken off they have no access to your flight information. Not that I expect much from that, but booking online is easy. These ones are on Delta. And yes, I did buy the insurance. :encouragement:

It is funny how easy they can take your booking (and by that I mean money) and yet it is such a PITA factor to get a refund.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Airlines will let you bring your own food just not liquids ,going to London in a month and being newly diagnosed Diabetic I contacted them about my concerns so cheese ,crackers ,sandwiches ,even fruit will get through security.You have to use see through ziplock bags though to put things in.This one is direct YYZ to Heathrow and we booked the morning flight as I hate flying overnight !Won't be bad though as we get there 8:30(UK Time) at night just in time to check in and meet friends for late dinner.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Cal said:


> Mode3sour - are you a pilot or are the flights work related. I just can't picture a pilot announcing to the passengers 'if you look out your windows to your left you will see a tomahawk missile...' And yes, most travel agents aren't worth dealing with.


Not a pilot, I control/coordinate with all of them. Tomahawks are long range missiles and it would cost too much to divert every sunny destination flight around them. Lots of airliners fly right threw militarized zones everyday and they don't always follow directions as closely as they should. It's kind of like supervising a bunch of kids who aren't aware of all the things that could hurt them :listening_headphone

I've luckily never had a real issue with baggage or transfers (waiting sometimes I consider unavoidable from weather, but it's still faster than driving) I've heard some real nightmares though, certain discount airlines have diverted to somewhere unexpected from weather and offered nothing to the passengers :neglected::chargrined::untroubled:


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Man I must be lucky. Many, many boring Air Canada flights all over the place and almost zero problems. People ***** about the cost of flying out of Pearson but to me its worth a few extra bucks to be on a safe airline that gets me where I want to go. Only problem I have ever had with an airline was when I tried being cheap and bought some flights on Direct Air out of Niagara Falls. First time there was a 3 hour delay due to an airshow that took over the airport and then they went bankrupt a week before we were supposed to fly with them the second time. Back to boring old Air Canada for us and Nexus passes to help speed up the process of getting to the gate.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I guess I could have been on this plane:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...jet-as-video-captures-life-and-death-struggle


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

At least the snake found refuge on the exterior and not the interior of the plane.

I can't believe that it did not fall in the almost 2 hour flight....hmmm, maybe carverman can explain this one. :confused2:

*Ihatetaxes:* I have also been lucky; my luggage went to different countries twice in all the years I have been flying, though near enough [Greece/Germany instead of Turkey], and a few to be expected delays/turbulent flights, but that's about it. I still marvel that I can be in T.O. at 11 p.m. today, and in Istanbul by 9 a.m. T.O. time tomorrow.

The wonder of it all........just can't complain too much when you think of it.

'Sometimes, flying feels too godlike to be attained by man. Sometimes, the world from above seems too beautiful, too wonderful, too distant for human eyes to see ....'


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> At least the snake found refuge on the exterior and not the interior of the plane.
> 
> I can't believe that it did not fall in the almost 2 hour flight....hmmm, maybe carverman can explain this one. :confused2:


The snake was on top of the wing, and the negative air pressure formed by the wing design (which causes lift and the plane to lift) kept the snake from falling off during the flight. 
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/wonder_of_flight/airfoil.html

The snake probably crawled onto the wing to get some sun and wasn't interested in hitching a ride to see the other side of Australia. As soon as the air started to flow over the wing, the snake was trapped by the layer of negative air pressure and couldn't get off. He might have survived the flight but for this....
What the snake hadn't counted on was the sub zero temperatures at higher altitudes
and he froze to death, not to mention not getting any oxygen either.

Let's hope that this is a lesson for any other snakes that have ideas about hitching a ride on a plane. They should get in the plane along with the rest of the passengers instead. Perhaps, this event will lead to a sequel to "Snakes on a plane".. as "Snake on a plane II, but the director that did the first has died recently...but maybe not because of a snake bite?.:biggrin:

http://news.moviefone.com/2013/01/07/david-r-ellis-dead-snakes-on-a-plane-director_n_2427687.html


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation! I knew one of the funniest/smartest forum members here would clarify it for me.

I don't think it froze to death though, as would it not have asphyxiated shortly after takeoff? I read that a plane reaches cruising altitude in just 1/2 hour; surely it died long before that.

What happened to the 'fly on the wall'?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Our maintainers find snakes hiding in the landing gear all the time. I guess it's warmer up there at night. Looks like the snake was killed by the moving flaps it coiled its head and body into, who knows.

It's a Bombardier Dash 8 (the turboprop that's now infamous for failed landing gears) Dash 8's don't usually fly very high because they'd just have to descend as soon as they got up there. The oxygen masks are actually optional on them, because the pilots have lots of time to descend back to oxygen if they lost pressurization. The oxygen doesn't completely disappear, there's just less of it. At 15,000' a person still has about 30 minutes of useful consciousness (can still pilot a plane) and even longer before total unconsciousness, and supposedly even longer before death. So who knows how long it would take a snake to die from hypoxia, or how long a tropical animal could live naked in -12C 400kmh windchill..


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## w0nger (Mar 15, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> At 15,000' a person still has about 30 minutes of useful consciousness (can still pilot a plane) and even longer before total unconsciousness, and supposedly even longer before death.


Transport Canada and FAR's regulations are that flight between 10000'-13500' can only be sustained for less than 1/2 hour in an unpressurized vessel mainly due to hypoxia. Just some FYI... I don't know that the actually physiological limitations of humans are at 15000'


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Toronto.gal said:


> Thanks for the explanation! I knew* one of the funniest/smartest forum members here *would clarify it for me.
> 
> I don't think it froze to death though, as would it not have asphyxiated shortly after takeoff? I read that a plane reaches cruising altitude in just 1/2 hour; surely it died long before that.
> 
> What happened to the 'fly on the wall'?


 ... +1 for being the funny/smartman. As for the "fly on the wall" part ... only Carverman has the answer ... hope it'll be continued.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> So who knows how long it would take a snake to die from hypoxia, or how long a tropical animal could live naked in -12C 400kmh windchill..


Ok, so you are saying that the snake crawled up the tires and landing gear and then somehow up on the wing? While it's possible, it seems highly unlikely that the snake could *crawl upside down *from the opening in the landing gear to get on top of the wing where it was flapping in the breeze. 

I can certainly see a snake crawling up a landing gear, since they can climb trees, but I didn't know a snake can defeat gravity by crawling upside down under the wing to get on top of the wing. Maybe somebody put it there that had a grudge against the airline?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... +1 for being the funny/smartman. As for the "fly on the wall" part ... only Carverman has the answer ... hope it'll be continued.


Ok, I guess I'll inject a little humour for you.:biggrin:
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel...tas-pythons-flying-circus-20130110-2ciu0.html

Fly on wall (actually inside the wing of the Quantas)

Snakey: Ah it's nice an warm here..I think I'll have a little snooze here and check out for anything edible later on. 
Quantas aircraft taking off: flaps a-flapping and engines roaring. 
Snakey: Crikey! What is happening to this thing. I didn't buy a ticket to New Guinea, so they won't be serving me
free inflight meal.
Aircraft levelling off for flight
Snakey (Let's call him Monty (Python) ...oh oh! I've screwed up, it's getting quite cold here and I've left my carry on at home!
The aircraft is at freezing altitude: 
Monty Python: Well a "flying circus" this ain't. I've got to hang on for dear life until they land. Mom was right, I shouldn't
be sticking my neck into places that don't concern me!"
Monty: Brrrr...I'm freezing my...butt off"..wait that's not right..I have no butt!
Plane starting to deploy landing gear in preparation for landing:
Monty: Yeah...I made it!....flap catches him on the head.....SMACK!
Monty: Where's the "flying doctor" when you need him?....goodbye cruel world!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for the humour carverman! :biggrin:

Speaking of snakes, I was at the post-office yesterday and bought beautiful stamps, issued just last week to celebrate the Year of the Snake [Feb.10/2013 to Jan.20/2014].

- The stamp features a brilliant jade snake with the Chinese character for “snake” in gold foil on its head.
- Detailed sculpted embossing gives the stamp a striking third dimension.
- A clear foil layer on the background elements of the stamp evokes shimmering water.










http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/apps/s...=&segment=personal&LOCALE=en&mode=web&x=0&y=0

'This zodiac sign symbolizes traits such as gracefulness, materialism and intelligence. People who are born under the Year of the Snake are “deep thinker” individuals. They are very analytical when it comes to results and they do not jump into conclusions. When it comes to achieving goals, Snakes always have their own ways around. They will plot and create effective solutions just to reach their objectives. With their intelligence and capability to analyse situations deeply, these individuals can achieve many possibilities in their lives. People who belong to the year of the Snake love to surround their selves with the finest of life. They can be pretty materialistic and usually have high standards. Your Chinese Zodiac is Snake if you were born in the following years; 2001, 1989, 1977, 1965, 1953, 1941, 1929, 1917 and 2013.'

Who are the snakes here?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Ok, I guess I'll inject a little humour for you.:biggrin:
> http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel...tas-pythons-flying-circus-20130110-2ciu0.html
> 
> Fly on wall (actually inside the wing of the Quantas) ...


... trying to not LMAO at work so as to disturb others .... many thanks! Makes the day go easier ... ROFL ...:highly_amused: :highly_amused:




> *TO.Gal *Who are the snakes here?


 ... not me! This Beaver is scare of snakes in fact ... but those stamps by CP are just beautiful. I think I'm going to get a set (despite my fear of snakes) to add to my stamps collection. Thanks for the posting too. :encouragement:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I thought the idea about writing to the board of directors was a good idea:

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1312580--how-to-fight-back-when-cruise-line-loses-your-bag-roseman


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> People who belong to the year of the Snake* love to surround their selves with the finest of life. They can be pretty materialistic and usually have high standards.*
> 
> Who are the snakes here?


Well it ain't me.."babe". I is a dog..woof! woof! But I'm sure some of the investors could be snakes.:biggrin:


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... not me! This Beaver is scare of snakes in fact ...


Well, as there is no beaver in the Chinese calendar, you must be a rabbit, or rooster [a bit introverted, or feisty and obstinate]. :biggrin:

*carverman:* yup, makes sense; you're a 'compassionate personality/offers kind words/support and advice to friends and family/a listener/always available to lend an ear or a shoulder to a friend in need.'

And LOL, but true, investors [active & passive alike], can be snakes. :rolleyes2:


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

w0nger said:


> Transport Canada and FAR's regulations are that flight between 10000'-13500' can only be sustained for less than 1/2 hour in an unpressurized vessel mainly due to hypoxia. Just some FYI... I don't know that the actually physiological limitations of humans are at 15000'


A Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 (which this particular snake chose for his/her fini flight) can apparently carry passengers up to 25,000' without those _little yellow oxygen masks_. Pressurization is different, cabin pressure is usually held to ~7000'-10,000' for passenger comfort. The pilots have much different oxygen masks in the freak event that they couldn't descend within minutes, or if there was a fire etc. The flight attendants can also provide oxygen masks for a few of the hyperventilating and/or chain-smoking passengers. It must have been a way for Bombardier to save a few $$ on yellow plastic. If you dig into the regs there are different oxygen equipment requirement for flight crewmembers, cabin attendants, and passengers at the various altitudes (those little yellow things won't give you positive pressure oxygen, dilute settings, nor protect your eyes from smoke etc anyways)

It's more the rapid depressurization that's discomforting if you don't know the valsalva manoeuvre. I've experienced euphoric hypoxia and rapid decompression for the sake of training, and from real loss of pressure. No oxygen mask will protect you from that discomfort anyways, but the flight attendants have various tricks for babies and/or congested people. The real danger of hypoxia is if the pilots don't recognize it and lose functional consciousnesses before descending below 10,000'. At 25,000' they have reasonable time to recognize it and descend, so there's no requirement for the plastic yellow passenger ones. I'm surprised though the lawyers don't make them inform the passengers, or that they don't have to teach this theory. I feel better knowing how things work myself. _Little known fact: the further back you sit, the more likely you would survive a crash statistically_

"OTTOMH" humble-style don't quote me on it I think civilian flights can have a cabin pressure up to 12,500' and military 25,000'. All civilian-passengers require their own oxygen supply above 25,000' and military can go 35,000' without using oxygen (for a very short time!). So the civilian numbers are obviously for über safety, and it's not as instantly dangerous as it seems.



carverman said:


> Ok, so you are saying that the snake crawled up the tires and landing gear and then somehow up on the wing? While it's possible, it seems highly unlikely that the snake could *crawl upside down *from the opening in the landing gear to get on top of the wing where it was flapping in the breeze.
> 
> I can certainly see a snake crawling up a landing gear, since they can climb trees, but I didn't know a snake can defeat gravity by crawling upside down under the wing to get on top of the wing. Maybe somebody put it there that had a grudge against the airline?


No clue how it got up there. Maybe they tied the props down from wind or had a ladder up to the engine for maint, maybe he was long enough to reach a prop, who knows. I just know snakes in the desert have a thing for crawling up into landing gear housings at night, so I'm sure it could happen. We've had rodents and insects on the jet lots of times, which may also explain the snakes. Meanwhile passengers are freaking out about the temperature and their seat. Snakes on the plane was our standard joke emergency for awhile


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Well, as there is no beaver in the Chinese calendar, you must be a rabbit, or rooster [a bit introverted, or feisty and obstinate]. :biggrin:


Well there is the year of the rat..and rats are afraid of snakes, because..well...you can figure out the rest. :biggrin:



> Occupying the 1st and most prominent position on the Chinese Zodiac, the Rat symbolizes such character traits as wit, imagination and curiosity. Rats have keen observation skills and with those skills they’re able to deduce much about other people and other situations. Overall, Rats are full of energy, talkative and charming but they have a tendency to become aggressive.
> 
> Rats are full of good advice but they will never share their troubles with others. They are honest individuals and they enjoy living for the moment. They’re also capable of surviving any situation.





> Rat*Snake
> Work on your differences and you could learn something from each other.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2013/02/09/toornto-sunwing-delay.html

17 hour delay....no thank you.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Flying anywhere this winter is taking a chance on the weather. It's been a more severe winter in terms of snow and snowstorms. I'm sure that passengers in the Northeast US probably had some similiar experiences this past week. Flying can be an aggravation to say the least, but during stormy weather, it can be a downright inconvenience with passengers having no recourse from the airlines but to sleep in the terminals. Hopefully it is still worth it to them. 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-12-20-flight-delays_N.htm


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Had another flight interupted. Such a PITA factor dealing with the travel insurance company. I returned Feb. 26th, just got my paperwork returned from the ins company April 2nd. Need to add another form, my copy of my visa statement for payment was not good enough for them, have to get an original copy from the airline. (I obviously did not ever have one, as the flights were changed mid trip, so it was done with a phone, rep and my visa, no paperwork to submit in the first place) Hoping to get my refund by the end of May at best. What a joke.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Another news item on airlines trying to make more profit..Toilets...one major airline Delta is shrinking them already to make room for more seats..then they will try to sell those passengers more booze, and then laugh, as they all line up at the minature toilets, and become contortionists to use them. Dellta can gain 4 more seats for paying passengers
this way to increase their revenue. 
Large (or obese) passengers are going to find it tough to fly in these remodeled planes.



> In the constant battle to cut costs and maximise revenue, airlines are now looking to shrink the size of their toilets – a decision that will allow them to squeeze in more seats.
> Delta Airlines is one of the first carriers to *order new on-board lavatories that will be smaller than the 3x3-foot-dimension toilets currently widely in use.*


Some airlines out there are setting up their fares by charging by the pound/kilo now. Heavier passengers pay more, the same as additional baggage.
I once flew a US airline that wanted to charge me $70 for an extra suitcase. When I complained about the excessive charge for the extra suitcase, the ticket agent replied:
"Well sir, if we were just to take on as many bags as the passengers brought with them..we would never get off the ground!"


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Another news item on airlines trying to make more profit..Toilets...one major airline Delta is shrinking them already to make room for more seats..then they will try to sell those passengers more booze, and then laugh, as they all line up at the minature toilets, and become contortionists to use them.
> *Large (or obese) passengers are going to find it tough to fly in these remodeled planes.*
> 
> Some airlines out there are setting up their fares by charging by the pound/kilo now. Heavier passengers pay more, the same as additional baggage.
> ...


 .. all the more reason for further discrimination lawsuits in the USA ... why don't these airlines just get rid of the seats and have standing room only (not sure how the passengers get strapped down though?)- would ever be so cheap to fly. :rolleyes2:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

carverman said:


> Another news item on airlines trying to make more profit..Toilets...one major airline Delta is shrinking them already to make room for more seats


Might as well get rid of the toilets completely and just give everyone a bottle.
Or a silk napkin to tie a knot 

The flight from Toronto to Vancouver will be fun.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> Might as well get rid of the toilets completely and just give everyone a bottle.
> Or a silk napkin to tie a knot
> 
> The flight from Toronto to Vancouver will be fun.


Not sure if our Canadian airlines are thinking about that..but with fuel prices on the rise...after the days of cheap oil is over, especially with China using more...
the airlines are struggling to keep flying and making ends meet. Jumbo air buses is the only way these days..maximimize the number of passengers per flight
and for those airlines still stuck flying yesterdays fuel guzzlers...adding more seats/passengers.
Those seats are cramped enough as it is..squeezing in 4 more seats, means increasing the seat pitch, making passengers with longer legs being squeezed to the
point of having your knees at eye level.

Now..add a smaller toilet and the airline serving more drinks/coffee over a long flight. That line up could get a lot longer.
Hopefully they won't start charging for use of their onboard toilets.

They already charge for headsets and pillows/blankets.
Future scenario revenue makers:biggrin:
In seat movie: $5.00
Tea/coffee/pop $1.
Airline meal: $5
Beer/wine: $5.00
Extra bags: $50
and maybe..
Toilets: $1
Babies: discounted at .50c per pound..10lb baby..$5.00


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

The $5 airline meal and beer/win are too cheap - a sandwich already costs at least that (can't remember exactly) last year. Raise that to $10 within the year. Charging for a baby 10lb with a discount ... not nice but a novelty idea. 

How about spare oxygen onboard - $20 for a 5 minute whiff? To make flying more comfortable? ... remember turbulence is still free. :tongue-new:


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> remember turbulence is still free. :tongue-new:


I think you can count on _chaotic motion of external air_ always being free, LOL.

I can't imagine making a 3ft by 3ft area even smaller.

We mostly fly international, so we should be ok, ie: in J.Jets.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

International travelers, please add 5% to the above quoted prices.
Add 10% for airport surcharges, and 13% for HST on top of everything.

And no, Bitcoins not accepted.

If you choose not to pay, the flight from Toronto to Sydney should be fun.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

LOL Harold. :sour:

Nice avatar Beav! :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks!

Signed,
Goofus Beav :biggrin:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Thought I would post this macleans article regarding the airline industry:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/06/11/the-gates-of-hell/

After my recent airline troubles, yes I have had more since the original posting........my wife and I are probably going to take the Greyhound to NYC for our next cruise.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Miss airline food? Finnair selling business class meals in supermarket

Maybe Canadian airlines can take a cue from Finnair with new marketing scheme above. [Not sure hi-end hotels/restaurants will like that stunt though.]


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