# Do you subscribe to any Investing or Guru Services?



## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

The bear market and dividend cuts have been a huge wakeup call for me so I need to fix my investing process, I’m doing OK but not as well as I’d like. The fact that I’m 57 and my wife will be retiring shortly means we don’t have time to make mistakes. I know what everyone is thinking, why waste your money etc but if I hire a manager (couch potato or Turner Investments for example) it's going to cost roughly 2500 per $100,000 invested - 1% management fee plus 1.5% ETF fee This means I have a good chunk of money to pay for premium services. 

Secondly I have very good investing instincts but there’s aspects I’m missing. For example the dividend discount model, I could learn it or I could simply subscribe to the Dividend Guy blog and let him do the hard work for me. I’m a firm believer in hiring people smarter than yourself. 

Finally I’m a hard core DIYer, I’ve interviewed a lot of financial planners and I just can’t give up control. But my whole family agrees that my Dad could have done better if he had been willing to pay someone to help. 
Here's a list of the services and the charge per year I'm looking at. Canadian dollars unless otherwise noted. I'll update the list as I find more

*Guru Services*

Motley Fool 299 per year
Dividend Stocks Rock 149 a year
Stingy Investor 295 a year 

*Advance Screening Services*

Big charts (can't find price)
Stock Charts 149 US a year
Fastgraphs 120 US per year
TD Waterhouse Advanced dashboard 25 per month
TSX Powerstream 180-600 per year

*Books and Blogs*

Dividend Guy blog - book now rolled into new blog
Dividend Monk - book 19.95 US
Derek Foster - book video series 199.95 

*Education*

Canadian Securities course - roughly a $1000 per certification. 

Coursera free unless you want a certificate - can't say enough good stuff about this platform!!!!


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

Currently I'm subscribing to Fastgraphs and simply love the service.

I also taking several investing courses from Coursera, those cost about $100 per course if you want a certificate, free to audit. 

Decided also to subscribe to Dividend Rocks and will buy Derek Fosters series.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

two magazines:
http://www.canadianmoneysaver.ca
http://www.moneysense.ca


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## The_Tosser (Oct 20, 2015)

lost in space said:


> The bear market and dividend cuts have been a huge wakeup call for me so I need to fix my investing process,


Why?

Can any of those guru services repair bear markets? 

Do any of them have an actual verifiable records?

Tell me what you don't know that they do and they can point to that as their success.

Show me an equity trader/investor that makes good money in bear markets. IE all of you live and die with a bull market - so what's the point anyway? lol.

Point to me where you have verifiable facts that any of those services are doing anything markedly different than the rest.

Your desire for 'better' returns and your lack of self confidence is the source of their actual business model. They sell you a dream that you're eager to buy. I know many people that 'pay' for premium services at banks. What did they get for all of this great help in 2008? Yep, the same hugely negative returns plus a 'fee' for the premium service, rofl. That was almost the universal outcome. Couch-tater can do just as well.

I'm a fan of this idea: You get paid when you make me money. If you do not make me money, you do not get paid. There's also a high water mark to consider in that structure. 

You see, this cuts the bullshit out. Notice none of these places offer such a service. There's your answer. btw that is exactly how i operate for the handful of people i occasionally help. No not a solicitation so don't bother. I tell you this only to have you look at it like you should. Financial investing is a con in a nice suit for the most part. No where else could such useless people and **** 'ideas' gain so much uncalled for respect.

You're a DIY'r. Good. That's a start. Answer some of those above questions to your own satisfaction and you'll immediately see you don't need any of their bullshit.

The truth is most people never employ what they already know they should. I guess it's just easier to sit there and do nothing and expect great results. Show me a profession where that ever works out well.

Good Luck. You're no more lost than most everyone else  rejoice! lol


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## Nerd Investor (Nov 3, 2015)

No guru service (although I used to peruse Stingy Investor which doesn't cost anything, the fee is to receive the Rothery Report) 
The only thing I subscribe to is Portfolio123 which is a powerful screener + backtester.


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

This year I bought a subscription to 5i Research. Not convinced it was worth the $149. The company reviews are fairly brief and non-technical, intended for non-finance people. They tend to like expensive stocks that have momentum and nearly everything in their growth portfolio is down significantly. Probably the stock recommendation that gives me the most pause is PHM. They added this to their growth portfolio at $1.50 (now trading at 40 something cents). To me PHM was a screaming avoid at all costs stock.

I think I bought the subscription because I like Peter, but when I did some digging I found that the last fund he managed was shut down for poor performance.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

How about the local library...most are free to a minimal fee, have access to many expensive subscriptions (some very specific and detailed) as well as knowledge on other complementary disciplines such as mass phychology, market trends, etc.


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

Nerd Investor said:


> No guru service (although I used to peruse Stingy Investor which doesn't cost anything, the fee is to receive the Rothery Report)
> 
> The only thing I subscribe to is Portfolio123 which is a powerful screener + backtester.


Sorry got the two mixed up



The_Tosser said:


> Why?
> Can any of those guru services repair bear markets?
> 
> Do any of them have an actual verifiable records?
> ...


You missed the whole point. I was asking has anyone subscribed and was it worth the money. For example I subscribed to Bond Trades for a while and while he was a top trader and made a lot of money the reality was you couldn't copy his system and most people dropped out after a while. 

I also subscribed to Fully Informed an options trading service and again she had a 20 plus year track record of betting the index, more importantly she had a Yahoo group where people talked about their trades. Several members were former portfolio managers so some real smart people there. The main issue I had was she traded on TA something I didn't feel comfortable with. she was also a Steven King style writer, why say in 500 words when 5000 will do, the volume of material she put out you simply couldn't keep up with. If you an options trader I highly recommend subscribing to her service. 

Second point was screener services, this is probably more useful to people here. 


I subscribe to Fastgraphs can quickly identify if a stock is over/under valued. Sure I can do all that on my own but it would take hours and hours to do and for some stocks I wouldn't be able to get the information. Using Fastgraphs I was able to pick out the bank and insurance company I wanted and much more importantly the price I'd close the trade out at. Last time I left a lot of money on the table. So if this two trades work out as planned the profits will pay for a lifetime subscription. 

I just signed up for Dividend Stocks Rock by the Dividend Guy, I've read his blog for years and agree with his style of investing. I decided to go with him because he researches stocks to a greater depth than I’m able to. Again it only takes one profitable trade to pay for several years subscription.


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

Anyone willing to admit that they subscribed to the Motley Fool? 

Curious to see if they are as good as they advertise.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I remember reading about the motley fool. They started out as an aol forum where people shared information. For example, if the number of cars in the parking lot of a certain company had an increase in the number of porches or if the lot had a lot less vehicles suddenly (which may have been a good indicator of the company's health). From what I read, it was quite profitable for many.

Then, not satisfied with making profits from the information, the site slowly changed into a service where they made money not off of investments anymore, but rather on selling access to information...most of which now seems like typical "talking head" opinions. 

When "experts" move into making money telling people how to make money, instead of making money doing what they say they do, I tend to think their "value" is quite low.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

1% is a lot to pay. That is about what a full service brokerage would charge to manage your money. For that, they will look at your portfolio about once per quarter and maybe meet with you once per year. Only ones who make money are the brokerage agents and managers. And they make it whether markets are going up or down. 

That 1% does not sound like a big number, but it could be about 25-33% of the total return of the portfolio. More if markets are down for an extended period.

I know people who have no interest in investing, but also have several million $$$ - they are with wealth management outfits. But even they can`t do well when the going get`s tough.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^

Just a Guy you are quite right, except that Motley is a bit worse than a mere re-seller of so-called investment info. I for one believe that many of the talking head/opinion articles are paid for, IE they are one-sided pumping/bashing pieces written to order for the long/short promoters.

i think the same thing goes on at seeking alpha. In both cases, the pumpster/basher dreck is interspersed with genuine research articles of real value. More of these latter at SA but so few of these at Motley that its website is not worth reading imho.


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## RUSH2112 (Mar 25, 2012)

The Securities and Exchange Commission today charged a former Deutsche Bank research analyst with certifying a rating on a stock that was inconsistent with his personal view.

http://www.onestopbrokers.com/2016/02/19/sec-charged-former-deutsche-bank-research-analyst/


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

MoneySense mag is the only thing I subscribe to..... I believe it is $1/month with my Rogers cell contract. I read it mostly out of general interest and for Norm Rothery's picks each year for his list of Retirment stocks, etc.

There is not much I need to know beyond the freebie materials out there. I am in retirement mode so am not adding to the portfolio. My trades are mostly the odd swap or to add to my TFSA each year.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Deep down in the underground, atoms spinning round and round
Scientists monitor readings
Searching for the Holy Grail, the particle or at least the tale
Of the one who gives the universe its meaning.

But what if there's nothing, no big answer to find?
What if we're just passing through time?

No one knows nothing anymore
Nobody really knows the score
Nobody knows anything
Let's break it down and start again

What happens when the markets drop,
If the numbers really don't add up?
Everyone seeks the safe haven.
And as they contemplate their ruin,
The self-proclaimed smartest people in the room
Are trying very hard not to sound cravin'

But what if there's nothing, no pot of gold to find?
Only the blind leading the blind.

No one knows nothing anymore
Nobody really knows the score
Seems nobody knows anything
Let's break it down and start again

Let's stop pretending
We can manage our way out of here.
Let's stop defending the indefensible.
Let's stop relying on
The lecturing of the experts
Whose spin just makes our plight incomprehensible.

High up on a mountain top, somebody with a skinned crop
Is thinking deep thoughts for us all.
Serenity is all around, but if you listen you can hear the sound
Of one head being banged against the wall.

But what if our ancestors had stayed up in the trees
Who'd be sleeping weighed down by these worries?

No one knows nothing anymore
Nobody really knows the score
Since nobody knows anything
Let's break it down and start again


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## Soils4Peace (Mar 14, 2010)

If by "guru" you mean someone who has won a Nobel Prize for economics, I have read about their ideas online, and apply them to my investing practices. But since firing my "advisor" in 2008 I haven't paid for advice nor bought any books. 

Some great sources of info are:
www.canadiancouchpotato.com
* read it all
www.ifa.com
* read it all, and be sure to do the risk questionnaire
www.etf.com
* Read anything by Larry Swedroe
www.vanguardcanada.ca
www.vanguard.com
www.burgeonvestbick.com
* Read anything by John De Goey

BNN
* Watch John De Goey


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

agent99 said:


> 1% is a lot to pay. That is about what a full service brokerage would charge to manage your money. For that, they will look at your portfolio about once per quarter and maybe meet with you once per year. Only ones who make money are the brokerage agents and managers. And they make it whether markets are going up or down.
> 
> That 1% does not sound like a big number, but it could be about 25-33% of the total return of the portfolio. More if markets are down for an extended period.
> 
> I know people who have no interest in investing, but also have several million $$$ - they are with wealth management outfits. But even they can`t do well when the going get`s tough.


That is the standard rate when hiring someone to manage your money, plus an ETF or MF fees. For example both Turner Investments and PWL (Canadian Couch potato people) charge. I figure if I spending less than that I'm ahead. 

Currently trying out Dividend Stocks Rock, will update later


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

LIS, I don't know if you have thought this through enough. My parents were very smart, and had an advisor and whatever the internet and business press had to offer. However, they often overruled the good advice, invoking our our old friends, greed and fear.

If the problem is that you do not have enough information, more information is what you need. If greed and fear are the problem, you need to step away from the process, pay the 1% to an advisor you trust, and let it go.

You might even consider letting the advisor manage most of your money, while you play with a small portion of it. But first be clear about identifying the problem correctly.

BTW, no advisor with a brain will ever agree to go without pay when the stock market is down. And why would you want to hire an advisor without a brain?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^

True about the getting paid part.

Thought ... my parents were impressed with the "1% so I have to make sure the portfolio grows". When I looked at the investments (pension funds etc.) then considered that one needed six plus figures to apply - even where it was dropping, having enough customers would automatically generate a sizeable income.


Cheers


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Elliott wave international is the largest independent market analysis firm in the world with aprox 100 employees with tens of thousands of subscribers they nailed the 07- 09 bear market & went long @ the bottom. Yet very few of their subscribers made money in the bear market. Tim wood has an amazing track record with his market letter yet few of his subscribers make money. Wall streets best known astrologer Arch Crawford is most likely ranked number one market timer for stocks, gold & bonds by Hulbert financial digest over the years more then anyone. Yet even though he gives clear directions of when to be in & out of the markets it does not matter subscribers still buy & sell with the herd. Yesterday on financial survival network Crawford put out a free audio.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I'd like to suggest you add The Investment reporter and Value line to your list to check out. Value Line is the grand daddy of investment services that goes way back at least to the 1950's. The Investment Reporter is, I believe based in To. According to the Hulbert Financial Digest, the latter has a long term 13%+ record is is one of the best out there. Both of these may be at your local library. They are at my local library so all I have to do is take a 10 min drive. 

If you want a credible overview of what is available and what is effective, you might try a subscription to the Hulbert Financial digest. He has been tracking services for decades and there is nary a hint that I am aware of he is anyone's back pocket. 

The loudmouth Tosser makes a good point, and it is my perspective also. Be your own guru. However, there is a learning curve and mistakes can be expensive. A good service can be a great help while getting an education and experience. Plus, many people do not want to be their own guru. My overall choice for Canucks is the Investment Reporter.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

lost in space said:


> That is the standard rate when hiring someone to manage your money, _plus an ETF or MF fees. For example both Turner Investments and PWL (Canadian Couch potato people) charge_. I figure if I spending less than that I'm ahead.


It might be the standard rate, but only because there are suckers out there who will pay it. (I could not understand the part in italics)

Consider that most portfolios will have a good percentage of fixed income. Imagine paying an advisor 1% to buy a GIC? Try modelling a retirement portfolio with and without that 1% fee and see what effect it has on the die-broke date. (Where is Steves when I need him  )


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## The_Tosser (Oct 20, 2015)

wendi1 said:


> BTW, no advisor with a brain will ever agree to go without pay when the stock market is down. And why would you want to hire an advisor without a brain?


LMFAO,

Because they are smart enough to know they give ZERO value added, rofl. Now that's a fact. This is living proof that they aren't worth a ****, and they know it. :stupid:

rofl. So again proof they/you are only as good as a bull market. Goddamn this takes the cake, making my point better than i ever have, rofl.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Oddly, Tosser, I sort of agree with you. The main advantange of a good advisor is that they take emotion out of the decisions, not that they have some secret information that the rest of us lack.

I can manage a GIC ladder myself, and do - no advisor necessary there. But that is simple stuff.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

wendi1 said:


> I can manage a GIC ladder myself, and do - no advisor necessary there. But that is simple stuff.


Exactly - It is simple stuff to buy GICs. But in order to obtain a fixed fee brokerage account, most want you to give them the whole package including fixed income.

What I did when first starting out, was to make a spreadsheet of all major mutual and other equity funds I could find vs their major holdings. Of course many hold the same stocks. Doing this, a dozen or more pop out. Then chose a few from each sector, and you have the start of a portfolio chosen by some highly paid fund managers.


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

agent99 said:


> It might be the standard rate, but only because there are suckers out there who will pay it. (I could not understand the part in italics)


Since when is hiring a professional a suckers bet. Almost every business person will hire an accountant rather than trying to understand the tax system themselves. Same with FP most people don't want the hassle or aggravation of trying to manage their portfolios. Few people, myself included can write up a detailed retirement plan My sister did that, decided she didn't want to be a DIY investor so she hired the Couch Potato people. Same with various family members they found a ton of value by having an experienced hand at the wheel. One family member in particular had a large portfolio that was stuck in expensive mutual funds. On my advice they hired an advisor. I told them to meet with several and see who they feel comfortable with. The guy they took even wrote them a very detailed retirement plan and sent it to them even before they were clients. 

Anyways my point wasn't should you hire an advisor, as mentioned for most people it's the best way to go, but as a DIYer should you hire a guru for stock tips.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Pluto said:


> If you want a credible overview of what is available and what is effective, you might try a subscription to the Hulbert Financial digest. He has been tracking services for decades and there is nary a hint that I am aware of he is anyone's back pocket.
> .


IIRC the Hulbert is shutting down and will no longer br available


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## damaaster (Mar 27, 2015)

I subscribe to MoneySense (costs like a dollar with my cell phone bill).
Also currently enrolled in the Canadian Securities Course via the CSI


I was going to start a new thread - but this seems like a good thread to ask. Does anyone have any recommendations for a good Free APP with stock quotes/news/etc specifically one that either focuses on Canadian Stocks?


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

damaaster said:


> I subscribe to MoneySense (costs like a dollar with my cell phone bill).
> Also currently enrolled in the Canadian Securities Course via the CSI


I would also recommend checking out Coursera they have got some fabulous and free investing courses. Currently I'm doing Investment Management from University of Geneva and Financial Markets taught by Robert Shiller of the Shiller index fame. 

Any thoughts on Motley Fool Canada, I don't really see how they can offer both a free and a paid service. My impression is that they tend to focus on large blue chip stocks. They have 30-day money back guarantee. 

So far I've tried out Dividend Stocks Rock ($15 a month) and Canadian Dividend Growth Investor over at Seeking Alpha (30$ a month one pro or $300 a month for all pros). I'll eventually review them all on my blog.


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## damaaster (Mar 27, 2015)

lost in space said:


> I would also recommend checking out Coursera they have got some fabulous and free investing courses. Currently I'm doing Investment Management from University of Geneva and Financial Markets taught by Robert Shiller of the Shiller index fame.
> 
> Any thoughts on Motley Fool Canada, I don't really see how they can offer both a free and a paid service. My impression is that they tend to focus on large blue chip stocks. They have 30-day money back guarantee.
> 
> So far I've tried out Dividend Stocks Rock ($15 a month) and Canadian Dividend Growth Investor over at Seeking Alpha (30$ a month one pro or $300 a month for all pros). I'll eventually review them all on my blog.


My experience with motley fool is they have about 20 stocks that they write articles about...basically just rehashing the same article every few days


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## lost in space (Aug 31, 2015)

Interesting thread over at MMM 

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/anyone-recommend-a-motley-fool-subscription/


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*Notes From The Rabbit Hole*

I subscribed to this newsletter for a few months - it's about $30 - $35 (usd) per month.
He sends out a 25 - 35 page report every week filled with charts and prose.
I could understand his charts okay, but the way he writes -- let's just say it's a waste of time for me to read it.

However, he also sends out a lot of free stuff; this piece today is very good, and even I can understand it.

*QUOTING:*

If you are trying to function in the financial markets, it is job #1 to quiet this stuff and tune out anyone who is selling it.

“Unfortunately, this scaremongering has been going on for all too long. I wrote a segment in NFTRH recently that included my own personal experience in being nearly traumatized into fear. To tell the truth, it’s why I bought gold in 2002-2003. So it ended up being a good thing, but I personally fell under the influence of a cult-like character and when I got rid of him, things went so much better for me.

This person also influenced current doom and gloomer Chris Xxxxxxxxx and others. ‘CX’ started a whole cottage industry in survival and prospering amid hyperinflation, except now it’s deflation except no, maybe inflation.

The point is that you have identified that you may be locked into this feedback loop and that is a good thing. I once worried so much that I bought gold, bought a gun, bought a generator, bought water supply, [also organic gardening, woodstoves…] etc. These are not bad things in their own rights, but the fear never turned to reality and I normalized because living life like that is not what you want. It’s what fear mongers want to sell.

The financial system is, in my opinion, at great risk of being ruined by central banks and these terrible policies. But life will go on. I would ask that you try to have two Xxx’es; one who understands the risks but the other who moves forward and stays balanced. Our human brains seem to think things are imminent all the time and then they take years, decades… to play out, if they play out at all.

When my guy forwarded me an email from a supposed in-the-know contact in Zurich stating that the USA [as we knew it] was going to end within months, I said screw you, I am out of here. That was in 2004."

https://nftrh.com/2016/04/11/quiet-the-fear/


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## mreconomic (Apr 13, 2016)

There is a cool website that recently has been doing a great job analizig the world's economy... focusing in the developed world, but also in some emerging countries... their advises are always very conservative, when talking about bonds, stocks or commodities... never assume unnecessary risks... and they say Oil price won't change in the short term... check out their reasons here http://smartfinancemag.com/oil-price-wont-change-short-term/


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