# Condo Corp/Management



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Friends,

I currently have a townhouse condo built in '05.

*** I already understand that if I do not pay the maintenance fees, they can put a lien on my house. This is not what I am asking.

Now, for the life of me, I can't find information regarding what happens if I do something the Condo Corp does not allow.

An example of what I am asking would be:

Condo Corp says: "You cannot change your mailbox."
Then I: Change the mailbox anyway.

Condo Corp says: "You cannot paint your garage."
Then I: Paint my garage bright pink.

Condo Corp says: "You cannot have a fish tank"
Then I: Purchase a 500gallon fish tank with sharks.

What I want to know is what is the recourse for this, assuming they found out?

I remember last year, they sent all the residents a notice DEMANDING US to take our Christmas lights down because it was January.

Now, I didn't put up any Christmas lights. But frankly, I think their demands are a little (hugely) BS.
If I wanted to put up christmas lights and run them ALL YEAR ROUND, then they should bite me.

I've gone ahead and installed cameras and drilled through the condo without their consent.

So, can they put a lien on the unit I "fix" what I have done?

Would they FORCE me to paint my garage white, had I painted it pink when I moved in, before selling the unit?

I would rather not ask the Corp myself, as I do not want to bring any unnecessary attention upon myself, as I have already done many things that are not allowed in the agreements.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

I have many examples of people doing things against the rules of a condo corp and paying for it later. From pretty minor stuff to expensive, labour intensive examples. My house in Florida is part of a gated community (not a condo setup but a homeowner association which is pretty much the same thing). I am glad they enforce a long list of rules as it keeps the neighbourhood looking pristine. They regularly force people to repaint the exterior of their homes (colour has to be preapproved), pressure wash the tile roof, etc. No parking an RV or boat in your driveway, etc. I love every rule they have.

I would suggest you sell it and buy something not governed by a condo board or suck it up and comply. I doubt its worth it to find out what will happen if they don't like one of your modifications.


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

It depends how much they enforce the bylaws. Usually, your best bet is to get special written permission from the board before doing something, if it's something nobody will care about.

If you break the rules, they can usually issue fines. They generally don't go to the trouble of putting on liens unless you start to owe them a bit of money (say a few month's condo fees), but they definitely have the power to do so. 

However, don't complain too much about bylaws; I've seen townhouse complexes that didn't have a condo association, and they were poorly maintained. It doesn't work well when each person replaces their own siding with whatever color they want, and some people just don't replace the siding. They tend to end up pretty slummy, vs. a well run condo association that ensures the complex exteriors are matching and well maintained. 

Another interesting thing to note is that the *condo association comes before the bank* (second only to property tax) when it comes to getting paid off. Therefore, making a loan to a condo complex is often a very safe bet (more safe than giving a mortgage to someone), and high interest as they generally get charged business rates (10%). The possible exception, of course, would be if there were major structural issues that would make the condos themselves worthless.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Ihatetaxes said:


> I have many examples of people doing things against the rules of a condo corp and paying for it later. From pretty minor stuff to expensive, labour intensive examples. My house in Florida is part of a gated community (not a condo setup but a homeowner association which is pretty much the same thing). I am glad they enforce a long list of rules as it keeps the neighbourhood looking pristine. They regularly force people to repaint the exterior of their homes (colour has to be preapproved), pressure wash the tile roof, etc. No parking an RV or boat in your driveway, etc. I love every rule they have.
> 
> I would suggest you sell it and buy something not governed by a condo board or suck it up and comply. I doubt its worth it to find out what will happen if they don't like one of your modifications.


^This. Many gated communities, associations, and condo owners feel this vary way and enjoy having consistency throughout. They bought in with the impression that the rules will be adhered to and enforced. 

Hypothetically, what if you and 3 other buddies went in on a fractional ownership of a 2008 Nissan 350z Grand Touring Roadster, nice Orange in colour, and everyone signed an agreement for no further modification to said car. Including colour, rims, intakes, exhaust, etc. Now, one member cuts a hole in the hood and installs a carbon fibre scoop. Would you still want this guy in your fractional ownership? Would you demand him fix the "damages" for not complying with the agreement? What kind of recursive action would you think is logical when you find out the guy knowingly did this against the agreement, and chopped the vehicle up?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I understand the appearances/structural aspects.

I guess this is my fault for not being 100% clear.

I love the fact that we cannot paint our garages different colours, for example. I wouldn't want the outside to look different for different houses, nor would I want the community to look mismatched or slummy.

However, things like christmas lights and the fact that a fish tank is not acceptable have become a bit of a concern for me.
It seems like more and more of these (in my opinion) ridiculous things are appearing.

I understand a fish tank can cause water damage, for example, but it is inside the house. That should be my responsibility. It doesn't really affect anybody except for me.

How can they enforce which pets are acceptable or not, for example?
Fish don't make noise and disrupt the neighbours!


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, if you don't comply with things like lights, they could hire someone to remove them at your cost. As for a fish tank, what if your floors are not structurally strong enough to support a huge tank (my bet is the rule doesn't really get enforced for a goldfish in a jar). 

As for lights being removed, when would be acceptable? Would it be okay to have them up all year round? Who draws the line? In this case the board, welcome to communal living.

Just because you don't understand the reason for the rule doesn't mean there isn't one. If you don't like the rules, volunteer for the board and work on changing them.


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

Is it an apartment condo or townhouse condo? 

I knew someone who flooded his 2nd floor bedroom floor when his water supply line for his tank sprung a leak. If he hadn't caught it when he did, it could easily have caused thousands of dollars worth of cosmetic and structural damage to his unit (and the units below). Note that this was a tiny line, not a full-blown garden hose.


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## Potato (Apr 3, 2009)

At the very extreme end, they can kick you out of the complex and force you to sell your unit. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/why-co...their-condos-may-become-more-common-1.1515556


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Put in a fish tank than
Just be aware you will Pay a price if your caught or it causes damages.
You don't really ''need'' permission per se,prob pretty easy to sneak/set one up


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I think each board is different. I am pretty sure though if you are caught breaking the rules, you can be given the bill for what ever it costs to remediate it. 

When our tenants moved out, they left items in the common area. It was on the video, we were notified and have 24 hours to remove it, otherwise they would charge us $200 for it to be removed. 

In our other condo we are not allow to have anything permanent fixed to the outside, including our satellite dish. We had receieved a notice of the cost to remove it, and fix the holes. We fixed it to a ladder, which was not permanent. 

Essentially, if you break the rules and there is any costs or damages involved, you will be on the hook.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I can't support the OP here. There are rules in condos for various reasons and each condo makes its own rules. Anyone choosing to live in a condo must abide by those rules or else pay the penalty and bring upon a lot of potential hassles for both sides.

Christmas lights past Christmas should be taken down. It looks bad and unkept from the outside of the building when the season is over and people were too lazy to turn them off or take them down. Same thing applies for flags and other colourful clutter people leave on their balconies. This gives an appearance (when viewed from the outside, photographed etc) that the board of your building does not want to project.

An aquarium can break and then leak water to the floors under you. In fact a recent thread recently raised this very issue.

The same rules apply to everyone and if you do not agree with them then you can lobby to have them changed but in the meantime I do not recommend breaking them. Rules are for everyone's benefit and if this is so problematic I would suggest purchasing a single detached house or moving to a dwelling that has rules you will respect.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I love the fact that we cannot paint our garages different colours, for example. I wouldn't want the outside to look different for different houses, nor would I want the community to look mismatched or slummy.
> 
> However, things like christmas lights and the fact that a fish tank is not acceptable have become a bit of a concern for me.
> It seems like more and more of these (in my opinion) ridiculous things are appearing.


You are crystal clear. I think the reality is that nobody gets to choose which rules to follow and which are ok to break. If everyone did that, every rule would end up getting broken since different people will have different ideas about what is 'ok'.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

KaeJS - I had recently wondered the same thing. My wife and I had looked at a condo townhouse that we liked, the only thing is we would like to move the laundry from the basement to the upstairs. Obviously we are ok with the expense of this, however in a condo townhouse, you would need approval from the condo board to do a structural change like this (as pipes would need to be moved/placed). I find it hard to spend half a million dollars on the townhouse, only to not get approval to move the laundry upstars for whatever reason they have.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Look at it this way: the loss of freedom protects you from the stupidity of your neighbours. It's often a price worth paying.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Read your contract. The one you signed when you bought the place. Get a copy of the condo rules from the condo corporation or management company. If you really have nothing better to do you could get your local or municipal condo laws and provincial condo laws and read them too.

There should be a list of rules and the penalties for breaking them. If there are no penalties the rules have no force behind them. Above the condo rules will be the local laws and provincial laws saying what they can and can't do.

Being part of a community means getting along with the neighbors, there are certain things you can't do but the same rules apply to them as well. These are voluntary rules, if you don't like them you can live somewhere else. This should have been clear when you bought the place.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I think the real issue you're trying to get at out of all these examples is the fish tank. And assuming you have a townhouse and not an apartment (which I believe is the case?) I would absolutely get a fish tank against the rules. 

I'm not sure but I'm guessing the issue is that the Condo Assoication has told the insurance company that there is a rule against fish tanks, and the premium they pay is lower because of this.

So realize that you may be liable for structural damage not covered by your own or the condo's insurance should the worst happen...


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

peterk said:


> I think the real issue you're trying to get at out of all these examples is the fish tank. And assuming you have a townhouse and not an apartment (which I believe is the case?) I would absolutely get a fish tank against the rules.
> 
> I'm not sure but I'm guessing the issue is that the Condo Assoication has told the insurance company that there is a rule against fish tanks, and the premium they pay is lower because of this.
> 
> So realize that you may be liable for structural damage not covered by your own or the condo's insurance should the worst happen...


You could always put a fish tank in a bigger fish tank (like a 25 gal. in a 35 gal.) and it would be like a double liner . . . early waterbeds anyone ?


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## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

Of course you could also run/volunteer to sit on the condo board. I was once part of a 56 unit townhouse condo where some of the board members were perhaps a little too nosy about some things and some changes on the board were for the better.

That said, as many have said here, most condo rules exist for a good reason which is generally speaking to protect the value of the collective investment. The problem I found is that a minority of owners never felt that they needed to follow the rules.


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## FrugalGuy (Oct 25, 2013)

A wise man once told me condo strata is the 4th level of government in Canada. Once a rule/bylaw became active, even a judge cann’t do anything about it.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

to share my experience further, I looked into what it would take to get the condo corp to approve of a structural change such as moving pipes to reconfigure a bathroom. The do ask for a permit and plans to be submitted for approval, however when I asked for a copy of the condo rules/regulations to assess what their criteria is for approval, they said there is nothing in writing. How can that be? Any non approval would surely end in litigation if the home owner were so inclined. 

Doesn't pass the smell test imo.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi Cal FYI, moving pipes is not a structural change. In a condo townhouse the only structure is the outside walls (pretty much) so if you can put your washer & dryer on the second floor without MOVING ANY WALLS it is not structural. Adding a wall to hide your washer dryer is not even adding structure as the wall is non load bearing. That is my interpretation.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

As the pipes generally cross units or travel through common walls, all the boards I've been on have ruled that pipes are condo.


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## FrugalGuy (Oct 25, 2013)

Just a Guy said:


> As the pipes generally cross units or travel through common walls, all the boards I've been on have ruled that pipes are condo.


Does it mean the repair for a leaked pipe to be responsible by the strata not condo unit owner?


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

At the condo townhouse I had looked at moving any piping or wiring inside of the units walls counts as structural to the condo corp. In a way I get why, in so much as if you had to change the ventilation for a bathroom, obviously the condo board needs to be aware, have proper documentation, as they hire the contractors that repair, replace the roofing, and need to provide them with accurate plans to complete their work as well.

I don't get why they don't have documentation themselves, regarding what their approval for such renos are based on.

FG- I understand a leaked pipe in your unit would be the homeowners expense, however a main line entering into the unit from the city would be the condo corps expense.


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