# Career Advice



## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

Given the wealth of financial advice I've had on reading this forum, I figured let's change gears for a few minutes and talk about my career. 

Here's a little more info about me:
- 34 years old, married, 2 year old son, probably another within the next year
- Own a house and have a $140k mortgage (very manageable under current financial situation)
- Currently employed with a large financial services company (great company and great people)

I'm been with my current company for almost 8 years. For the past 2 years, I've worked as part of a division's marketing team, but I'm more of a project manager on the business side (vs tech side) leading product/functionality implementations. Prior to that I was part of our division's analytics group doing things such as reporting, incentives, data analysis, etc. I started as an analyst and was a manager for a few years before I got my current role.

My old boss in the analytics group is moving onto a new role, so his director position is now open. I'm contemplating applying for it, but here's where it gets muddy.

Pros:
- Director level job would obviously mean more money since I'm currently a Sr. Manager
- This is an opportunity to be on the "inside" of the leadership team as this job is like a right-hand man to the senior guy in charge.
- I know the workings of the department well as I did or owned many of the functions in my previous roles.

Cons:
- When I took my current job, my current boss was expecting that I was going to be in marketing for a while as a new career path. If I don't get this job, it might seem bad. I should point out that in no way does the company stunt job movement, and in fact, the company is great about it. It's moreso the relationship between myself and my boss.
- There is currently a Sr. Manager on the team that likely has the inside track on the job as he's been there for 5 years and is responsible for the majority of the team.
- We have a brand new VP/GM in our division starting next week. He was a director here when I first started and left within 7/8 months to take a promotion in the UK. My first impression wasn't that great as he was all talk and no action (prototypical slimy sales guy). He would be my new boss for this director position. I hope he's changed in the past 7 years.
- My career to date, aside from the past 2 years, has always been heavily focused on analytics. While great, it's tough to get out if I decide to do so in the future because my experience in other areas (eg. sales, marketing, etc) would be limited.

As I wrote all of this out, I'm leaning towards staying put as it would likely mean short term gratification with a possible sacrificing of long term experience. 

Any of you folks ever in a similar situation?


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

I consider two years to be an adequate time to have contributed to the success of a department. Typically I look at a 3 to 5 year time frame for myself before I apply for other positions, however if a great opportunity came up, I would definitely apply for it after 2 years.

Another thing to consider is that applying for the position, whether you get it or not, shows the Executive team that you're ambitious and want to be challenged. I don't see any negatives in applying.

Assuming you will apply for the job ... Good luck!!!


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## J3ff (Mar 20, 2011)

*Grab at opportunity*

If opportunity has presented itself, I say grab it - especially if it's going to put you into a position for even better growth. It is important that you have a good manager / boss. The executive track will always encourage you to chase after the money. More money = more top executive scrutiny = faster track to better roles (if you perform well).

Just my opinion...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I would say to apply as well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Also as an analytics type, you are not a typical sales person.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

If it's of interest to you then you should try to get it. Remember your the only one responsible for your career.

Your best move might be to have some unofficial discussions about applying to get a feel for how people react. If the SR manager you think has the inside track has no desire to apply for the role then your way should be clear.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks for the input, everyone. 

Long term, that department is not where I want to be, so going for this job would be moreso to 1) move up a level and 2) continue to build that relationship with the senior leaders. It's my best shot at moving up since it's an area that I have a lot of experience. I'm not too concerned with #2 as my last 2 years have been spent on very high profile projects that give me plenty of exposure (and earned respect) with our leadership team. 

Given that I don't want to be in this functional area permanently, getting into another area in the future is a worry. That is, 80% of my experience to-date has been in analytics, and if I want to get back to marketing or product management, it may be a challenge because of my lack of marketing/product experience. That's my main concern.

This is a really tough one.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Going for an interview would allow you to pose these kinds of questions to exactly the people who are in the best position to do something about them.

"I'm committed to the company and I want to move up, but I'm a bit worried about anchoring my career in analytics when I'd also like to continue to build my skillset in marketing and product management. How do you think this opportunity fits into my overall ideal career plan?"


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

"Thank you for your question. We believe in honesty and being upfront and have shared with you all the pertinent job details. With that information you'll have to make a judgement call as to how well you feel this position fits your goals and aspirations."

OR

"We have selected another candidate whose skills more closely match the position advertised. We wish you all the best in your career endavours."


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

But what has he got to lose? Honestly. Senior interviews are a two-way conversation, not the blunt retorts you've suggested.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Again totally agree with MG.

My thoughts is that by applying, you are showing management that you want to be management, and move. Assuming you have a good relationship with your current manager, I would have an up front conversation with him. 

You really have nothing to lose by applying. I think the optics can be managed through your communication.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm going to schedule some time to chat with my old boss. He's always been great about providing me guidance. Once I've done that, I'll chat with my current boss to get her thoughts. You guys are right, I don't think I have anything to lose whatsover in the short term.


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## SlowandSteady60 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm all for anybody climbing up the ladder and getting to the top but you need to ask yourself a few questions. First of all, it shouldn't be about money or prestige. It's about where you want to be in five or ten years. If that's the place or it's a good stepping stone, away you go. Most importantly, ask yourself if there is any sacrifice being made on your family's part. If so, you may want to rethink it altogether. I've seen a lot of people climb the corporate ladder only to fall off because they lose sight of the most important things in their lives. Family. I've also seen people give it all up for a quiet life and been very happy in doing so. Being big isn't always the best. Weigh out the "whole" situation and make your decision. You seem pretty smart. Remember what they always say "it's lonely at the top" and "It's a long way down". Good luck to you!


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

So it's been a few years since my original post, and I'm at the next junction in my career. 

As a quick update to the original post, I applied for the role but didn't get it. In retrospect, I'm super glad that I didn't. I ended up taking a marketing role in a fast-growing business unit, and I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't. Also, my old business unit is in shambles right now. I wouldn't go back there if they gave me a director role. Several months back, I decided to start looking to move externally because the long-term prospects for growth here are somewhat limited. There are few director roles, and many of the roles don't interest me.

Anyways, I've accepted a new job at a direct competitor. The paperwork is signed, and they're just doing the background check right now. The timing of the move is a little strange and unfortunate though. The new place wants me to start on Jan 6, which is the Tuesday after when most people return from holidays. I'm trying to figure out when to give my notice. My boss and my boss' boss are both going on vacation for 2 weeks beginning this Monday. I don't expect that the background check will be done by end of day tomorrow. I would need to give my notice tomorrow if I want to meet the 2-week standard. No way I'd do it without confirmation of the background check though - not that I expect any issues. That said, being that I'm going to a direct competitor, they're going to walk me out the door immediately anyways.

I'm thinking I have 2 options:

1. Wait until the check is completed and call my boss during the holidays. 
2. Wait until Monday, Jan 5 and give it in person when everyone is back.

Regardless, I think I can start my new job on Jan 6 because I'm getting walked out the door anyways. 

FWIW, my current company is fantastic, and I totally want to leave on the best of terms. Would it be inappropriate to resign via phone while both of us are on vacation? Any comments or suggestions? 

Also, is the company supposed to pay me for 2 weeks notice if they walk me out the door? It doesn't change anything. Just curious more than anything.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Congratulations. You start at the new company 2 business weeks after they confirm they are hiring you (that is 10 business days, not including stat holidays). If that means you miss their Jan 6th start date, too bad. This will encourage them to hustle on the background check.

If they "walk you out the door", I think they usually offer pay in lieu of notice, but I think it depends on your province and the legislation that controls your business. If you are on two weeks vacation, I think they are not obilgated to offer two weeks pay (you are getting vacation pay, anyways).

Resign in writing, to the person your direct boss has designated as his signing authority. Send your boss an email or give him a quick call as a courtesy, if you have his home email or phone.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Reading your post, it said really nothing decisive to me until you mention the 'slimy sales guy' who would be your direct report. Personally, I don't do business with dickheads, so that would make my decision for me right there. Someone like that, if your reading of him is accurate, is not someone I would with to have over me- people DO NOT change, not at heart, and if he's slimy that means you might get backstabbed, set up, ignored, mocked behind your back etc etc particularly if he feels even remotely threatened by your integrity, work ethic, skill level, etc. 

IMHO, something like this is like entering a relationship with your spouse- it's 100% or it's nothing. Meaning, if there is a red flag, I would personally listen to my gut. Good luck whichever way you go.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

wendi1 said:


> Congratulations. You start at the new company 2 business weeks after they confirm they are hiring you (that is 10 business days, not including stat holidays). If that means you miss their Jan 6th start date, too bad. This will encourage them to hustle on the background check.
> 
> If they "walk you out the door", I think they usually offer pay in lieu of notice, but I think it depends on your province and the legislation that controls your business. If you are on two weeks vacation, I think they are not obilgated to offer two weeks pay (you are getting vacation pay, anyways).
> 
> Resign in writing, to the person your direct boss has designated as his signing authority. Send your boss an email or give him a quick call as a courtesy, if you have his home email or phone.


I'm the person that my boss would have turned to for signing authority. LOL...They are definitely trying to get the background check done asap, but it looks like it will be sometime during the holidays.



indexxx said:


> Reading your post, it said really nothing decisive to me until you mention the 'slimy sales guy' who would be your direct report. Personally, I don't do business with dickheads, so that would make my decision for me right there. Someone like that, if your reading of him is accurate, is not someone I would with to have over me- people DO NOT change, not at heart, and if he's slimy that means you might get backstabbed, set up, ignored, mocked behind your back etc etc particularly if he feels even remotely threatened by your integrity, work ethic, skill level, etc.
> 
> IMHO, something like this is like entering a relationship with your spouse- it's 100% or it's nothing. Meaning, if there is a red flag, I would personally listen to my gut. Good luck whichever way you go.


That's why I'm glad I didn't get that job a few years ago. I think that guy has run the business unit into the ground. His predecessor has been running the business unit that I've been at over the past 2 years, and it's doing awesome. Hence, things worked out perfectly for me when I was turned down...


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