# For people that bought/hold/sold RIM



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

So, I thought there was going to be a bounce after the missed earnings. Apparently it looks like that is well past and it is not going to happen.

I am thinking of cutting my losses tomorrow and getting out, but with the announcement of the PlayBook in less than 3 weeks, I sort of want to wait.

The stock is being punished quite badly.
I got 50 at $55.99. I'm not sure if the PlayBook is going to bring the stock up $2.
Are you guys holding or selling?


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## clovis8 (Dec 7, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> So, I thought there was going to be a bounce after the missed earnings. Apparently it looks like that is well past and it is not going to happen.
> 
> I am thinking of cutting my losses tomorrow and getting out, but with the announcement of the PlayBook in less than 3 weeks, I sort of want to wait.
> 
> ...


The playbook is basically DOA. It will cost the same or more than the iPad, it is smaller, has no 3G, few apps, and cannot even do email. I would guess it has less than 1% chance of taking much market share from Apple.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> The playbook is basically DOA. It will cost the same or more than the iPad, it is smaller, has no 3G, few apps, and cannot even do email. I would guess it has less than 1% chance of taking much market share from Apple.


 i follow tablets fairly closely (i have an ipad and would love a better option) and the playbook, which i initially was excited about, is shipping without any email or calendar programs i believe, you need to use a blackberry to really make is sing ... so i think it, along with every other non-apple tablet will be a bust

as far as how it will affects rim's stock, i have no idea .. this is why i don't buy stocks .. i lack the ability to predict the future


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I don't see what RIM offers for the future, others are already light years ahead. It's a good idea to get out imo. People say they will still sell lots in the meantime, but the market is improving by leaps and bounds and they could be in the dust faster than you think

Playbook is a complete farce


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

fatcat said:


> i follow tablets fairly closely (i have an ipad and would love a better option) so i think it, along with every other non-apple tablet will be a bust


What's wrong with the Samsung Galaxy Tab?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> What's wrong with the Samsung Galaxy Tab?


I almost bought one of these.

I made the decision that I will sell RIM tomorrow and take my losses.


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## 14dmoney (Jan 20, 2011)

I bought RIM at 56.00 thinking that it had to be an overreaction. All the analysts seem to think RIM is a good value based on the fundamentals and talk about the global market for RIM having huge growth potential as well. I don't really understand why it is so out of favour with investors so I think I will just wait and see.


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## 14dmoney (Jan 20, 2011)

Here is an article on the wide moat that RIM has with it's better encryption and security for the corporate world vs the consumer oriented iPad:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...laybook-the-picture-brightens/article1882735/


And here is an article describing the "anti-bubble" phenomenon of investor sentiment on RIM which is completely out of sync with the fundamentals of the company:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ets-blog/rim-cant-buy-a-break/article1957311/

If anyone has time to read these articles and explain to me why RIM is so out of favour, I would greatly appreciate any insight into why this makes no sense to me at all!


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## davext (Apr 11, 2010)

Seems like RBC Capital market always has a bias upside analyst opinion for RIM. They have been wrong for a while now. 

I picked up some RIM on Friday since I'm hoping that it's building some support at around $55/$56. 

RIM moves up and down really quickly, you never know when it'll move up or down 10%. If the stock doesn't move up as it gets closer to playbook release, then I'd sell as well.

I bought 100 shares.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> So, I thought there was going to be a bounce after the missed earnings.


Me too, KaeJS. We both made that same play about a week ago, and it doesn't look like it's turning out.

I have 400 shares and my plan is to hold... .... for now.


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## bmckay (Mar 10, 2011)

Gambling is detrimental to your financial well-being


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

I find that stocks of consumer brands like Apple, RIM can be extremely erratic, irrational, and news-driven. Personally, I feel that I'll get "eaten alive" because I don't pay enough attention, and there are too many insiders trading on confidential information.

The Apple iPad is clearly a consumer favourite, and RIM is definitely playing catch up. But is that all there is predicting stock price?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> What's wrong with the Samsung Galaxy Tab?


 nothing especially, the new ones will be thinner and more polished i think .. i don't think that android honeycomb is as mature as ios4, it is not as nice looking and has way less useable apps (that may change but publishers so far love apple) ... on the other hand they will run flash which is good .. there just is nothing compelling to make you not buy an apple and as long as apple is leading on price, has a jillion more apps and all your friends have ipads, why buy something else ?


> Here is an article on the wide moat that RIM has with it's better encryption and security for the corporate world vs the consumer oriented iPad:


rim playbook is built on qnx which is supposed to be a much more robust operating system .. more secure and so on .. problem is, playbook is playing catchup and is still not out and has had to add an emulated layer of android in order to have a decent amount of apps

plus it's only 7 inches and weighs as much as an ipad ... and it's crippled to boot

on the good side, i hear that the hardware runs very robustly with true multitasking (i have seen some amazing demos of what it can do)

i am open to anything and would actually like to NOT buy another ipad but i don't see anything compelling out there


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## Axcell (Mar 25, 2011)

Also got in at $56 after the huge sell-offs (50 shares). Averaged down my position, bought on Friday @ $54 (50 shares).

I think $55/share average is not bad. I'm holding onto RIM. This thing is way too cheap. I don't believe it'll hit the high 50's this week, but I'm confident that we've seen the bottom at Friday's close. 

If you got in at $56, just average down your position. Buy some more if RIM hits below $54. 

If the Playbook won't make this sucker fly, it will be the dual-core phones that will be released in the next few months. I can see the articles already "A step forward for RIM." They are finally improving the specifications of their devices after continuously re branding the same phone over and over again (i.e. Bold 9000 --> Bold 9700 --> Bold 9780 all with roughly the same specifications.)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

fatcat said:


> there just is nothing compelling to make you not buy an apple and as long as apple is leading on price, has a jillion more apps and all your friends have ipads, why buy something else ?


The amount of people who use and develop for it is a big deal. I always used a PC because it had far more software options, and I find iPhones more versatile for the same reason

BB users just don't seem to care about Apps yet, but that could really hurt RIM when smartphones become as common as a PC


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm in the same boat as you folks. I bought 300 shares @ 56 and am holding for now.

I'm thinking of making it a covered-call play to try and recoup some of my losses. The premiums are pretty juice on technology stocks like RIM


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## 14dmoney (Jan 20, 2011)

dotnet_nerd said:


> I'm in the same boat as you folks. I bought 300 shares @ 56 and am holding for now.
> 
> I'm thinking of making it a covered-call play to try and recoup some of my losses. The premiums are pretty juice on technology stocks like RIM


I know that if I have to ask what the upside and risks are to "a covered call play" means that I have no business doing it myself but could you explain it in more detail anyways (simply for learning purposes).


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

holding RIM for longer than you actually planned is no big deal, its not like we are talking about a penny stock here.

As others said, i don't pick stock because i have serious doubt in my ability to predict the future.


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## Oilers82 (Jan 17, 2011)

I bought 50 shares at $56.00 too KaeJS. I still think it is a good buy, company seems sound. I'm planning to hold.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I still think that AAPL is better choice than RIM


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I have no stake in RIM and just a few words.

The playbook is a developer's nightmare. Good luck getting apps that you need.

Rim is a tech company. Unless people are buying blackberries like a commodity like intel cpus, I would not treat it like a buy and hold investment. Instead I would analyze it from a trading perspective.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Causalien said:


> I have no stake in RIM and just a few words.
> 
> The playbook is a developer's nightmare. Good luck getting apps that you need.
> 
> Rim is a tech company. Unless people are buying blackberries like a commodity like intel cpus, I would not treat it like a buy and hold investment. Instead I would analyze it from a trading perspective.


I'd prefer to hold AAPL instead of RIM


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## Axcell (Mar 25, 2011)

Causalien said:


> I have no stake in RIM and just a few words.
> 
> The playbook is a developer's nightmare. Good luck getting apps that you need.
> 
> Rim is a tech company. Unless people are buying blackberries like a commodity like intel cpus, I would not treat it like a buy and hold investment. Instead I would analyze it from a trading perspective.


I'm guessing you haven't heard of the following factors that can help RIM, if not now, in the FUTURE:
- The iPad 2 has MAJOR problems (when the screen is turned up to full brightness, it shows that the screen is bleeding.) Serious problem of quality, MANY users are experiencing it and there is a flood of exchanges. 
- Blackberry Playbook supports Flash, which the iPad 2 does not
- Blackberry Playbook is a smaller form factor, so that helps give it an edge 
- Finally, to directly answer what you just said, the Blackberry Playbook has an external application built that will allow it to play Android games (and that market is increasing at a much faster rate than that of Apple.) 

Disclosure: Long on RIM.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> So, I thought there was going to be a bounce after the missed earnings. Apparently it looks like that is well past and it is not going to happen.
> 
> I am thinking of cutting my losses tomorrow and getting out, but with the announcement of the PlayBook in less than 3 weeks, I sort of want to wait.
> 
> ...


If you bought RIM for the purpose of making a very quick trade, you picked the wrong stock as you would have had better luck picking Irish banks for trading purposes, in fact, you could have made 22% on Friday & so far today, 19%. 

RIM & RIMM are definite LTH's for moi! [long term holds].


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## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

I believe to play the smartphone market, one should hold Apple, Google and RIM - i hold all three. Apple has clearly outperformed and i'm sitting on 70% gains while averaging up as the stock shot through the roof. It has become the overwheliming darling of stocks.

RIM is a real dog of a stock. I bought it at the height of the financial crisis @ 49$ and rode it to $85, sold and then bought again at $77. I'm still holding and its done nothing for me. I was going to sell some of my shares it for the capital losses and tax benefits at the end of 2010 but didnt.....urgh!

Google meanwhile has been drifting for the last year or so...

The fundamentals of the smartphone market are very strong. More and more people are going to replace traditional cellphones with smartphones and these companies are going to make a lot of money but these stocks will remain fairly volatile, so best to hedge your risks.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

RIMM-Q down 2% more. 
Market sentiment. Capitulation.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Axcell said:


> I'm guessing you haven't heard of the following factors that can help RIM, if not now, in the FUTURE:
> - The iPad 2 has MAJOR problems (when the screen is turned up to full brightness, it shows that the screen is bleeding.) Serious problem of quality, MANY users are experiencing it and there is a flood of exchanges.
> - Blackberry Playbook supports Flash, which the iPad 2 does not
> - Blackberry Playbook is a smaller form factor, so that helps give it an edge
> ...


Yes android apps on top of a simulation layer could change the game for them. Technically insane, but doable if the processors are fast enough to simulate real time and if goog allows that to happen. There's a lot of if in playbook's promise. I am still treating it as a trade because of RIMM's inherent technology nature. 

And the smaller form factor is just a different market target. I am not sure if there is one for that. It doesn't fit in the pocket and yet the screen is too small for something that I need a bag to hold. I see the possibility, but my pessimistic side that I use to vet out problems haven't fond a market for something between a tablet and a phone yet.

On the balance sheet note after first glance. Wow, great income story. But could anyone explain why the receivables are half its equity valuation?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

14dmoney said:


> If anyone has time to read these articles and explain to me why RIM is so out of favour, I would greatly appreciate any insight into why this makes no sense to me at all!


The thing about being out of favour is that it makes no sense. This is a fad segment. 

Plus the competitive advantages of RIM in the corporate market were already priced in (at least since 1999)!


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## ArmchairHero (Apr 4, 2011)

wow if things look as bad as they are, RIM looks to be in trouble for the short term.. hope they can recover.


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## Kim (Jan 10, 2011)

Oh look it's $54.99 ( it's like it is on sale at Walmart  )

Just thinking sarcastically - If a stock goes to 0 will the the broker charge a fee to take it off your portfolio? 

I am filing this under "lessons learned" 

This was my first tech stock venture and perhaps my last - never say never because that always makes it happen and I don't want this to happen again.


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## canehdianman (Apr 7, 2009)

I work at a corporate law firm in Calgary, in the past year our IT department has started allowing us to choose iPhones instead of Blackberries.

The result?

Over 50% of us have iPhones already. The rest will be switching shortly. The iPhone is 10x more useful to me as a lawyer (and 100x more useful as an avid gamer/reader/browser).

RIM is dead, as far as I'm concerned. They haven't had an innovative product in a LONG time, just constantly bleeding market share.

The Playbook would have been ridiculous 18 months ago; now it is just pathetic. 

I wouldn't buy RIM at $40 (which it will be at soon enough, if it isn't bought out).


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Axcell said:


> I'm guessing you haven't heard of the following factors that can help RIM, if not now, in the FUTURE:
> - The iPad 2 has MAJOR problems (when the screen is turned up to full brightness, it shows that the screen is bleeding.) Serious problem of quality, MANY users are experiencing it and there is a flood of exchanges.
> - Blackberry Playbook supports Flash, which the iPad 2 does not
> - Blackberry Playbook is a smaller form factor, so that helps give it an edge
> ...


I agree with Causalien that Playbook is a developer's nightmare, or really a user's nightmare because only select developers will test or design much for the Playbook specifically

The open system works great with PCs, but with Android devices there is a lot of compatibility issues already even with "pure" Android branded devices. On a PC everyone has a keyboard/mouse/hardware that work roughly the same but Android devices vary so much in hardware that some don't display or respond to touch correctly, or won't even work due to varying sensors and storage setups. If it wasn't for this I would buy an Android phone, but I like how all Apple apps are designed and tested for a very select number of devices



canehdianman said:


> I work at a corporate law firm in Calgary, in the past year our IT department has started allowing us to choose iPhones instead of Blackberries.
> 
> The result?
> 
> ...


This is my feeling as well. BB is basically a typewriter vs a PC imo. I'm sure some people clutched their typewriters saying they were immune to "virus's and hacking" and who knows what, but a PC is just infinitely more useful

We only have BB for work but many of us buy iPhone apps ourselves for work tasks. For example we used to spend a lot of time locating satellites, but iPhone can do it with an app (let's see you do that with a BB) Android is doing well to catch up in OS and apps but I don't see what RIM has to offer besides security. RIM will just lose a lot of customers who realize they prefer productivity over security. I'm sure people would still use typewriters too, but eventually the PC's got firewalls...


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

Axcell said:


> I'm guessing you haven't heard of the following factors that can help RIM, if not now, in the FUTURE:
> - The iPad 2 has MAJOR problems (when the screen is turned up to full brightness, it shows that the screen is bleeding.) Serious problem of quality, MANY users are experiencing it and there is a flood of exchanges.
> - Blackberry Playbook supports Flash, which the iPad 2 does not
> - Blackberry Playbook is a smaller form factor, so that helps give it an edge
> ...


 
- screen may bleed if brightness is turned up and you are staring at a solid black web page. Seriously? Dont look at solid black web pages.

-Jail break the ipad and viola you have flash

-smaller form factor is an edge? Seriously? WHy bother? Stick with a small phone to web browse.


Bottom line is the CEO/founder is focused too much on buying a damn hockey team, and not enough time focusing on his company.

Ditching my bb as soon as my contract is up to buy an iphone to complement my mac pro, and ipad.

Steve Jobs id Lord!


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Anyone short on RIM? In other words, how to profit from RIM's impending doom? Short, and hold?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sold out at $54.12 today.

Glad I did. Closing price is $53.08


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

bean438 said:


> -smaller form factor is an edge? Seriously? WHy bother? Stick with a small phone to web browse.
> 
> Bottom line is the CEO/founder is focused too much on buying a damn hockey team, and not enough time focusing on his company.
> 
> Ditching my bb as soon as my contract is up to buy an iphone to complement my mac pro, and ipad.


Actually I kinda agree the smaller form is an edge, I find the iPad too big. I like how the iPhone fits in 1 hand and my pocket but I think it could still accomplish that with a bigger screen. I'd rather buy a 5,6,7" iPhone/Tab actually.

I also agree jailbreaking is as hard as typing jailbreakme.com and kills 99% of Apple complaints


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

RIM is dead. This quarter may be looked back upon as the final nail in the coffin. The Canadian growth and success story is now Lululemon. Not my type of stock, but would certainly recommend it for someone looking to ride a bull.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Ok, did any of you poured over its quarterly? What's the explanation of a 4 billion dollar receivable while their total equity is 9 Bil? If there's no explanation, I'll just assume that they are channel stuffing. In which case, I will have to go short.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Heh, this is from 2009, but still hilarious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csMO8bFWBdE


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

I believe RIM is a very cheap stock. However I'm not convinced it will go up just because it is so out of favour. 

However at the current price I am going to make a gamble. The reason it's a gamble as the trade is made out of speculation an on the following basis. I want a playbook and it's up to the performance of the stock to make my decision for me. 

$2k into RIM. If by the end of the year the gains represent the price of a playbook I will buy a playbook with the profits. If they go down in value I will cash out and the playbook will no longer be on my wish lists. 

I like BlackBerry and what they do. I think they are far superior to Apple and I just don't think Apple will be able to sustain their levels of growth. I think Apple products look good but are very over priced but am not a fan so will stay clear of their products and the stock. 

I know this is simply pure speculation / gambling but it doesn't hurt once in a while


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

liquidfinance said:


> I like BlackBerry and what they do. I think they are far superior to Apple and I just don't think Apple will be able to sustain their levels of growth. I think Apple products look good but are very over priced but am not a fan so will stay clear of their products and the stock.


You realize the Playbook is supposed to cost more than the iPad.. a far more refined and developed product? Apple may not sustain this growth rate as more alternatives come into the market (besides BB) but BB is most likely to decline in market share based on what they're putting out now. I'm not sure how you can say BB is far superior in anything besides security and price, both of which edges are going away and I don't see them with any else "far superior" coming. It may be too little too late


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## davext (Apr 11, 2010)

Kim said:


> Oh look it's $54.99 ( it's like it is on sale at Walmart  )
> 
> Just thinking sarcastically - If a stock goes to 0 will the the broker charge a fee to take it off your portfolio?
> 
> ...


If you get traumatized that easily, you really should not be trading. 

RIM has potential for recovering. It can easily get back to $60 to $65 if it goes along for the ride when the market moves higher, regardless of how well the Playbook does. That being said, I'm not putting too many eggs in this basket.


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## Kim (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks Dave - I'm not traumatized I am just being sarcastic for fun. 
And I probably shouldn't be trading but I find it interesting.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

liquidfinance said:


> I like BlackBerry and what they do. I think they are far superior to Apple and I just don't think Apple will be able to sustain their levels of growth. I think Apple products look good but are very over priced but am not a fan so will stay clear of their products and the stock.


Good for you! Bet with your heart. I sure hope you are right.

Rather than bet $2k on their stock, why not just buy their playbook? That's what Apple customers are doing! It seems to be working for their stockholders.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Glad to finally see the words 'gloom/doom' given to products other than RIM. We shall soon see what the PlayBook figures will be.

*"Gloom over Xoom"* 

"As the tablet wars continue to heat up, new products seem to live or die on their initial sales figures. Based on a research note from Deutsche Bank on Wednesday — estimating that only 100,000 Motorola Xoom units have sold since late February when the tablet went on sale in the U.S. — some are already planning the funeral for the first device to run Google Inc.’s Android Honeycomb platform; the first Android version designed specifically for tablets."


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I'd be surprised to see another tablet being profitable. Apple have tried and failed before so they have the experience. I doubt the current companies coming to market with one has any experience what so ever.

On top of that Apple's vertical integration encompass more components and gives them control on what to focus on. The rest are just using generic computer parts.

Just my 2 cents. I've been a PC/window/linux user for my whole life, Apple blew me away this year once I started with their iPhone.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Causalien said:


> Just my 2 cents. I've been a PC/window/linux user for my whole life, Apple blew me away this year once I started with their iPhone.


+1 I'm not an Apple fan by any stretch but the iPhone is something. I nonchalantly tried to convince a friend and he decided to buy a Samsung based on "just don't like Apple". Now that I upgrade to iPhone 4, he admitted nothing touches iPhone refinement and took my old one, even paid to cancel his contract to switch.

The ironic thing is that Apple haters are doing exactly what they hate Apple fans for... buying based on emotion/brand alone


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