# House of Commons scuffle, Much ado about nothing.



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

I guess by now, we have heard Justin's faux pas yesterday about crossing over and physically grabbing a member of Parliament while at
the same time elbowing one that was in his way. He had apologized 3 times or maybe more and that's all we hear about..the terrible thing he did as Prime Minister and he should be "punished" for doing this. 

The opposition, Conservatives and Mulcair et al, want to hang him out to dry.

What kind of punishment does he deserve? I mean, he didn't try to grab a heckler by the neck and choke him like Prime Minister Chretien did a few years ago.
So what was so terrible that he has to be punished for what he did. I'm sure he will hear enough from his wife at home.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Well, I guess there are certain expectations that MPs aren't supposed to "manhandle" others. Though I would say that was an exaggeration of what Trudeau did with the Conservative whip.

Of course, if the whip didn't decide to go through a pack of NDP MPs and instead step a little to the left to avoid the crowd, this would have be all avoided. 

It also raises the question why the MPs were gathering around talking in the middle of the floor when there was an impending vote. Maybe discuss last minute voting strategy? "We vote against the government... let's debate that... we vote against them right?..." They had no issue forcing a snap vote when it suited them.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

The media is blowing it out of proportion but Trudeau did commit an error in crossing the floor in the house which is a big no-no. The opposition is just creating a big opportunity out of it. It worked.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

NorthKC said:


> The media is blowing it out of proportion but Trudeau did commit an error in crossing the floor in the house which is a big no-no.


It wasn't a smart thing for him to do. But as a youngish guy wanting to get things done, I can understand Trudeau's frustration. I can also understand the frustration of the opposition parties having to try and compete with the high flying Liberals. They know they have to get the bill passed, so why use blocking tactics? 

Trudeau is not your usual politician, which, in my mind, is a good thing.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

agent99 said:


> But as a youngish guy wanting to get things done, I can understand Trudeau's frustration.


One way of looking at it. Or another way is that he was raised as a rich, entitled spoiled brat and he is just reverting to his normal behaviour ?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Remove "scuffle" from the title of this thread pretty well sums up the job of our politicians.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I suppose he should have addressed The Speaker and said "Would the honourable members of the NDP please clear the way for the opposition leader to approach"


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I wish he would have given mulcair a flying elbow to his bearded face.


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Can,t blame Trudeau,,,,,,need some *** kicking in the Commons and Senate


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

Seems like a Liberal Party meeting. JT did nothing wrong.

Now, if it had been SH would you be defending him?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

LBCfan said:


> Seems like a Liberal Party meeting. JT did nothing wrong.
> 
> Now, if it had been SH would you be defending him?


I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong. He shouldn't have touched another MP. 

I just think that it was blown out of proportion.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

LBCfan said:


> Now, if it had been SH would you be defending him?


*Hell*, no!!

(i'm not the least bit biased, obviously).:untroubled:


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Next time though, maybe JT should get down there and slap some sense into those filibustering clowns, I don't think they've learned their lesson yet. :boxing:

(no double standard to see here at all, nope,) :nonchalance:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trudeau tried the "nice guy inclusive" approach and the opposition reciprocated by embarrassing the government on a lame attempt at a snap vote.

Trudeau should inform the opposition he will no longer be needing any of their advice or input and will pass whatever legislation he wants, ...........and then smile at them.

And the Senate apparently all got off charges because they broke no rules because they have no rules.......so appoint no more Senators, sell the Senate building and have them meet at a library until they all retire.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I've seen the movie and it looks to me like spoiled brat Trudeau jumped up and had a tantrum because he was not getting his own way, or rather, he was getting his own way, just not fast enough to suit him.

It is also possible the opposition set the whole thing up to goad him into making a fool of himself.

If they did he sure fell for it in a hurry. The day's session had barely started.

In any case, for a Prime Minister to start manhandling Members of Parliament for any reason is unparliamentary in the highest degree. I don't know about you but I do not want government by World Wrestling Federation rules. 

One more proof that Justin Trudeau is not mature enough for any position of responsibility in this or any government.

By the way the bill he was so eager to get passed involves 'doctor assisted dying', something that may be of interest to the older and less healthy members of this board.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

He should have sat still and minded his business. The other people involved were perfectly capable of sorting the whole thing out and finding their seats out without violence and without his help. Total delay less than 1 minute.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> And the Senate apparently all got off charges because they broke no rules because they have no rules.......so appoint no more Senators, sell the Senate building and have them meet at a library until they all retire.


Maybe they should rework the senate building to provide rooms for out-of-town senators to live in when they are not in their home province, area. Cafeteria for meals.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

LBCfan said:


> Seems like a Liberal Party meeting. JT did nothing wrong.
> 
> Now, if it had been SH would you be defending him?


SH could have cleared a path by just walking through the NDPers.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Looked at the video several times.

The NDP are making themselves look foolish over this. I hope that it comes back on then. Just look carefully at Brosseau's movements. And watch her eyes as she is looking at her Leader. And watch the smile on her face....not the look of someone who has been supposedly 'assaulted'. It was not until she realized the political capital did she feign assault. I thought that the NDO were better than this. Guess they are not.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If you want a democracy and not a dictatorship members of parliament have to be free of intimidation. Let this kind of thing go on and you end up with government by the gun and the truncheon.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> If you want a democracy and not a dictatorship members of parliament have to be free of intimidation. Let this kind of thing go on and you end up with government by the gun and the truncheon.


You are stretching things a lot to say the least.

I commend T2. I like to see a little shake up now and then. If a vote was pending, then those little NDP minion should have been seated and listening instead of milling around.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

You would have to stretch your thoughts to make believe land to really believe that this could be construed as intimidation. Really, IMHO, only the most loyal and strident NDPers would ever stretch this to intimidation. He bumped into her. End of.

Intimidation is much easier than that for those in power. Harper was a master of it. The party in power simply intimidates MP's by holding the purse strings on Federal monies/investments going into their ridings or dispensation for constituents.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If the PC whip couldn't figure out taking two steps to the left to walk down a clear aisle, how does he ever manage to herd all his MPs.........?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

As to the terrible injury suffered...........

[video]http://i.imgur.com/X3syHee.gif[/video]


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

http://www.thebeaverton.com/2690-en...-house-of-commons-after-trudeau-s-assault.htm



> OTTAWA - All 44 members of the NDP caucus arrived in Parliament this morning wearing neck braces, arm slings, head bandages, and seated in wheelchairs after yesterday’s physical altercation with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
> 
> “Justin Trudeau has ruined my life,” said Mulcair, wheeling himself into the House of Commons with one arm while the other was in bandages. “I’ve lost my ability to do the thing I do best: yell and point my finger. I will be pursuing full damages for my pain and suffering.”


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

sags nailed it! 

The longer this goes on, the more ridiculous Brosseau and Mulcair will look.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Trudeau's Elbow from a Different Angle


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

olivaw said:


> http://www.thebeaverton.com/2690-en...-house-of-commons-after-trudeau-s-assault.htm


Bunch of clowns!..and Trudeau promised us, his gov't would get serious about matters at hand. I guess the honeymoon is over...no more walks in the park with the "pied piper" with everyone following behind him with big smiles like he did last
October. 

Now it's like one of those comic strips..BIFF! OUCH! JAB and GRab! Trading insults at each other.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

carverman said:


> Bunch of clowns!..and Trudeau promised us, his gov't would get serious about matters at hand. I guess the honeymoon is over...no more walks in the park with the "pied piper" with everyone following behind him with big smiles like he did last
> October.
> 
> Now it's like one of those comic strips..BIFF! OUCH! JAB and GRab! Trading insults at each other.


Do you think that the honeymoon is really over? It will be interesting to see the post-elbowgate polls. People can forgive a momentary lapse in judgement by an inexperienced Prime Minister. They might be less willing to tolerate the NDP's over-the-top reaction.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I've seen the movie and it looks to me like spoiled brat Trudeau jumped up and had a tantrum because he was not getting his own way, or rather, he was getting his own way, just not fast enough to suit him.
> 
> It is also possible the opposition set the whole thing up to goad him into making a fool of himself.
> 
> ...


Yes, that bill, if passed could be of interest to us..er...hack! cough!.."less healthy members"who put a substantial drain on our medicare system to speed us on our way. As a side benefit , the gov't wouldn't have to pay us OAS and CPP benefits after we
have committed suicide. 

So Rusty, are you implying that the "loyal opposition et al" were deliberately baiting Justin so they could go after him for committing a faux pas?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

olivaw said:


> Do you think that the honeymoon is really over? It will be interesting to see the post-elbowgate polls. People can forgive a momentary lapse in judgement by an inexperienced Prime Minister. They might be less willing to tolerate the NDP's over-the-top reaction.


Over the top...



> It started as an incident. Then it became a kerfuffle, before rocketing right past an affront on its way to a criminal assault and ultimately, according to the NDP, violence against women.
> 
> The thrilla on the hilla, the rumble of the humble, the melee of the members: call it what you will, according to many MPs it will be a day that will live in infamy.
> 
> ...





> So were the NDP blockers, one of whom got side-swiped by the prime ministerial arm, or was physically molested if you buy the wording of the motion of privilege in the House of Commons.
> 
> That was pretty much it, except for the encore of a hollering, gesticulating Tom Mulcair as he came nose-to-nose with Trudeau.


Now who got elbowed in the boob?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

'So Rusty, are you implying that the "loyal opposition et al" were deliberately baiting Justin so they could go after him for committing a faux pas? '

I did see an analysis on Youtube that suggest it, and it does seem possible. If you slow down the vid it appears the whip is attempting to go to his seat and 2 others deliberately block him.

You would expect the whip to say, 'excuse me' and go past to his seat but Justin rushes up and starts pushing people around.

Not that it would excuse his behavior. What would happen in your workplace if you did the same thing, grabbing people and elbowing others out of the way? I suspect it would be a long time before you heard the last of it. You would be disciplined and possibly fired.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> 'So Rusty, are you implying that the "loyal opposition et al" were deliberately baiting Justin so they could go after him for committing a faux pas? '
> 
> I did see an analysis on Youtube that suggest it, and it does seem possible. If you slow down the vid it appears the whip is attempting to go to his seat and 2 others deliberately block him.
> 
> ...


 Maybe, If I caught them slacking off in the cafeteria drinking coffee instead of working to meet a deadline?
Seriously, who is responsible for keeping law and order in the H of C? 



> *Speaker of the House of Commons*
> The Member of Parliament who is elected at the beginning of a Parliament by fellow MPs to *keep order in the House of Commons and to ensure that its rules and traditions are respected.*


I would say that at least 3 faux pas were committed. 
- The Speaker should have stood up and issued and order to have all the scrum members sit down in their seats.

if nobody paid attention, then call the Sergeant at Arms to re-establish order. he carries a big Mace and EVERYONE respects him.

- Trudeau should have stayed in his seat and protested vehemently to the Speaker and not cross the floor.

- The ones blocking the Party Whip (is that a good name for their role today?) should have had their names recorded and dealt with at a H of C subcommittee on such issues ( lack of quorum?).

there ARE rules about H of C conduct of MPs and the Speaker.
They are defined here under Standing Orders:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/House/StandingOrders/chap3-e.htm


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

"Maybe, If I caught them slacking off in the cafeteria drinking coffee instead of working to meet a deadline?
Seriously, who is responsible for keeping law and order in the H of C?"

Really? If they were 5 seconds late getting to their work area because someone was in their road, you would rush over, grab them and drag them away? And no one would say anything about it? I take it you do not work in a union shop. I have worked in union shops and I guarantee you, if a foreman acted like Trudeau did he would be through. 

It looks to me like a couple of members were being passive aggressive dinks. But it is possible they were just oblivious. The guy they were blocking would have got past them in about 3 more seconds and nobody would have noticed anything unusual. What makes it a cause celebre is Trudeau's violent over reaction. If he goes on like this he will earn himself a punch on the nose or worse. He is going to have to learn to behave like a grownup.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> "
> It looks to me like a couple of members were being passive aggressive dinks. But it is possible they were just oblivious. The guy they were blocking would have got past them in about 3 more seconds and nobody would have noticed anything unusual. What makes it a cause celebre is Trudeau's violent over reaction. If he goes on like this he will earn himself a punch on the nose or worse. He is going to have to learn to behave like a grownup.


You should read his book "Common Ground" then. A lot of his mannerisms is based on his growing up years. 
He was a teacher in a private school for a few years before he ran for liberal nomination for Papineau. 



> But mostly, Justin shares with readers his belief that Canada is a country made strong by its diversity, not in spite of it, and how our greatest potential lies in finding what unites us, in building on a sense of shared purpose-our common hopes and dreams-and in coming together on common ground.


I would guess then that Mulcair does not share his dream.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

From the video it looks like Trudeau didn't do anything wrong. I am Conservative and not exactly a fan of Trudeau, but the whole incident was caused by the guy who did the blocking. A slight brushing against the woman was clearly accidental and all the howling and the drama that followed are purely political.


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## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

*Jughead Trudeau*

Another example that demonstrates that Jughead Trudeau does not have the intellect to be Prime Minister


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

Simple rules that clueless, overpaid, and careless group of people can not follow. You learn the basic principles of patience, politeness, and respect to others from the time you are a child.

If someone is speaking in a polite manner, you listen, and wait your turn or ask politely to speak.
If someone can not see or struggling to hear, you sit down and be quiet.
If you don't like the direction of the conversation or predicted outcome, sit down, think harder and smarter, prepare a better argument.

I see this everyday with grown adults who can not sit still and shut up for 5 minutes. If they do, then after 15min they have completely zoned out and follow it up after with a list of complaints to share with their peers. Stomping, loud and/or foul language losing your control is a very big sign of feelings of insecurity, poor knowledge, or someone who is egotistic. 

Maybe a simple lesson in meeting management would go a long way with these spoiled little brats.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mordko said:


> From the video it looks like Trudeau didn't do anything wrong. I am Conservative and not exactly a fan of Trudeau, but the whole incident was caused by the guy who did the blocking. A slight brushing against the woman was clearly accidental and all the howling and the drama that followed are purely political.




it's plainly evident that several NDPers were doing the blocking. 

in particular, NDP MP evelyn brosseau can clearly be seen blocking. She's blocking just to the speaker side of the principal male NDP blocker, ie she's on the side farther from the cameras.

immediately prior to trudeau walking out onto the floor to pull the conservative member forward past the blockers, brosseau can be seen grinning & talking - evidently about the blocking manoeuvre - with the seated female NDP member directly beside her.

immediately after the trudeau/block incident, brosseau can be seen racing from her position towards the back of the chamber exit, turning to look backwards angrily at the prime minister, who by then was escorting the PC member in the opposite direction. Brosseau runs surefootedly, does not appear to be hurt, her facial expression is visibly one of anger.

elizabeth may promptly stood up & said she'd viewed everything, her witness was that trudeau had accidentally bumped into brosseau. Later trudeau would apologize to brosseau fully & profusely. Brosseau is now trying, somewhat pitifully, to claim that she was physically "injured?" hasn't canada just gone through something similar with the ghomeshi trial?

on a related issue, is thomas mulcair known for sudden outbursts of rage? is he another aging rageaholic? i never knew that, i'm just wondering about the history.

the entire episode reflects badly on the new democratic party, imho.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

The NDP had been angered by the Liberal attempts to steamroll the bill. The rest is political theatre. Malcair's screaming was laughable. As for Trudeau and his multiple apologies I've lost count of... It seems to be a liberal thing https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> the entire episode reflects badly on the new democratic party, imho.


Ohh, absolutely. It OBVIOUSLY has nothing to do with T2 charging across the HoC like a toddler having a tantrum.... :stupid:


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Koogie said:


> Ohh, absolutely. It OBVIOUSLY has nothing to do with T2 charging across the HoC like a toddler having a tantrum.... :stupid:


Toddlers don't charge across rooms when they have a tantrum. They remain in place and shriek like NDP MPs. :boxing:


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't think this situation made anyone look good. Trudeau was clearly in the wrong (not so much for the errant elbow, but for trying to physically move the Conservative Whip). The NDP look ridiculous for complaining about the errant elbow and not the 'real' issue of Trudeau attempting to forcefully move another MP. The only person who the PM gets to manhandle is the Speaker when he is first hauled to the Chair (jokingly, as a matter of tradition).


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

andrewf said:


> I don't think this situation made anyone look good. Trudeau was clearly in the wrong (not so much for the errant elbow, but for trying to physically move the Conservative Whip). The NDP look ridiculous for complaining about the errant elbow and not the 'real' issue of Trudeau attempting to forcefully move another MP. The only person who the PM gets to manhandle is the Speaker when he is first hauled to the Chair (jokingly, as a matter of tradition).


The Conservative Whip was trying to make his way by himself but he was deliberately blocked by NDP MPs. Trudeau was trying to "help".


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

John Oliver on the smackdown on the hill...... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1miNteGTV1A


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

According to the latest Nanos poll Mr. Trudeau's popularity rating has increased since this event. Mulcair's number has decreased to single digits


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

olivaw said:


> John Oliver on the smackdown on the hill......
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1miNteGTV1A


:biggrin: He got it EXACTLY right. And the MP who talked about "molestation" molested the brains of everyone who listened to his idiocy.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

mordko said:


> .... Trudeau was trying to "help".


I doubt the Conservative whip wanted M. Trudeau's help. In fact I think he said it was unwelcome. Lucky for M. Trudeau he didn't get a knee in the Trud's for his 'help'.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Why the hell were the dippers cluttering the centre aisle? That seems to be the root cause of the problem.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

It is over. In fact 'it' was never really a big even in they eyes of the voters. That is what the polls are showing. And the NDP have made themselves look rather foolish over the entire non event. Tories not much better. 

There may still be some knashing of teeth and wringing of hands by people who wish to keep this minor incident alive by making a mountain out of a molehill but the bottom line is fairly evident. Canadians did not really care, it has not impacted the political landscape, and any party that keeps harping away at it will loose more public support. Not good news for the leaderless parties.


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