# How do you deal with this bad tenant??



## landlord101 (Sep 28, 2011)

My wife and I own a rental unit and have had it for 3 years , now selling,, 
throwing our hands up saying no more,, 
I don't know if it's our area but have had nothing but issues.

right now were dealing with a tenant who wants a war..
it dose not matter how we try to make it work this tenant seems to think 
he is going to walk away with a pocket full of money,, 

he never tells us when theres an issue with the place, but instead calls the landlord board , bylaw or even his local mp to complain. 

so right off the bat when I find out there's an issue I'm made to look like I don't care,, 

he keeps the apt gross , and has got the bylaw to make me clean the entrance even tho it's his mess. 

He has a lease and I offered for him to leave if he wanted if the place wasn't what he wanted,, but instead of working something out, he says
he wants to stay and teach me a lesson and sink me .. 

I feel like I have someone who is crazy messing with me and my wife. 
He pays his rent is about all he dose,, but every month harasses us about something .. 

calls me names and is very rude to me and my wife,, 

were trying to sell this place but can't with this tenant he scares away buyers 

I just don't get why he would want to spend all this energy at making issues 

is there anybody out here who knows how to deal with a tenant like this???


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## Quotealex (Aug 1, 2010)

This rental unit is in which province?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

This thread should be mandatory reading for all those in CMF who want to buy property to invest (and rent out). 

It's not all it's cracked up to be, folks.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

Your options are largely dependent upon which province the rental is located. 

I had a "needy" tenant a couple of years ago who called incessantly pestering us after she split with her boyfriend and he moved out. I finally paid her to leave. I gave her back her last month's rent in exchange for her leaving the place spotless. 

If your tenant is determined to stay I would hire a hard-as-nails property manager and refer the tenant to her/him. There are some really experienced property managers out there who know how to deal with these "professional tenants". When he realizes he is dealing with someone who has his number, hopefully he will move on to the next unsuspecting, unfortunate landlord (hopefully not me!)


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Sure I have a few winner like this one for instance one of them filled out a work order to have her heating unit fixed on the 19th which we received and had checked on the 20th. We then received the order from the city saying that we had to fix it a few days later. She had called the city before us... 

She did the same when she decided our chutes had to be cleaned. She printed out the city bylaw and gave us a work order. 

The trick for you is to know the laws better than they do. In fact they kind of keep us management types on our toes. 

For example, with the city bylaw cleaning problem you had, there is a form called an N-5 that is for interfering with the landlord's rights so you can order them to clean up their mess and property with 20 days notice or you can hire someone and charge them... it's the same with the tenant interfering with the sale of the property and being gross. 

Trouble is that you need to switch from an offensive position rather than a defensive position. 

Should you be lucky enough to own a new condo in Ontario, you can give a rental increase if you have not already this year. If it's built after 1994 you can charge whatever you like! Although you should stop yourself from increasing more than your costs have gone up. So if your maintenance fees have gone up a couple hundred bucks then you can increase that much. 

Also good to give instructions that he must make all maintenance requests in writing by email or regular mail. I'm just saying that delays may be caused by contractor problems...as long as you are responding in a quick professional manner, that's what you are required to do. 

In the meantime...work on getting some money together for a prudent reserve, lots of tenants like this eventually withhold rent due to some imagined slight. This is actually good news for a landlord because eviction for non payment is relatively straightforward...you'll want to make sure that your paperwork is in order, maintenance request, invoice and so on. 

Also keep in mind that this tenant has declared war on you, you can never be nice enough to him or her to make them stop. Placating them leads to more unreasonable requests. I once knew a landlord who changed a perfectly good 5 year old high efficiency furnace because her tenants thought it looked old. Then she got a management company, because she tenants had her change the floors, get them a dishwasher and got her to lower the rent $100 per month as well. Once we took over the only thing we did was change the rails on the front porch because they were completely rusted out. Good tenants get perks not demanding assholes. 

Anyways that's my input...


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

When does the lease expire ?Since you are selling it You should start the process of evicting them ,there is no way you will sell with a problem tenant.We bought a house with a problem tenant and made the seller vacant the house as part of the deal ,it took them an additional 60 days to get them out ,we got $5000 off our original offer or we were walking.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

marina628 said:


> When does the lease expire ?Since you are selling it You should start the process of evicting them ,there is no way you will sell with a problem tenant.We bought a house with a problem tenant and made the seller vacant the house as part of the deal ,it took them an additional 60 days to get them out ,we got $5000 off our original offer or we were walking.


I don't think you are allowed to boot them out just because you are selling (in Ontario at least).


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

Four Pillars said:


> I don't think you are allowed to boot them out just because you are selling (in Ontario at least).


Unless they're off-lease and the new owner plans to move in personally. (I think.)


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

You have to honor the lease but this tenant had expired lease and still took them 2 months extra to get them out.Seller gave them their notice lease will not be renewed and listed house took 4 months to get them out.
Just want to let seller know realities they are facing


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Is it possible to move in yourself. Then they have to vacate don't they. Take a few months to clean, paint. Then list to sell.

I am sure Berubeland will know what you can do.

You will have to post what province you are in.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Ok in Ontario...

You cannot give them legal notice to move until you sell. If the new owner requires vacant possession then you can move them out with 60 days notice. There have even been lawsuits where the new purchasers gave notice in bad faith against the old owner but they were not successful because the previous owner had no idea the notice was in bad faith. The property* must be SOLD* for you to give this notice. 

The moving in notice is a very bad assumption on part of owners. If you give this notice to a bad tenant they will eat you for breakfast. So many owners give this notice in bad faith it's not funny. Then you have to prove you are going to live there... 

Owners who legitimately want to live in the property have a hard time...for instance they would be asked where they are living now and why they require the space, if they have another house for instance, did they have to sell it? Why and prove it...If you say you are splitting up with your wife to go live there do you have divorce papers. I am not at all joking. 

Then God help you and the Devil too if the tenant comes back for up to a year later and you have rented it to someone else. That's a giving a notice in bad faith case for the tenant, and they carry some extremely hefty fines.


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## JA2285 (Jan 25, 2011)

You mention he said he actually wants to try and sink you.. Do you have any further information to the situation? Why would someone have such an ill will unless they really thought you were doing something wrong.. As well how much of a lease do you have left and what sort of unit is it?


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Here is our scenario to give an idea how much a tenant can mess you up .
We made firm offer november 27 with closing feb 18 .Lease was expired December 1 according to listing agent and seller.We get a call mid Jan saying the tenants won't move and can be move our closing to April or will we consider keeping the tenant.Tenant wanted to stay in unit but we Already had our own tenant to move into the house and the seller's tenant seemed like an *** when we went to view the place anyway.
I do not know what went down between seller and tenant but on closing day it was 3pm before our lawyer released payment as the tenant had still things to move out.Even then the tenant still had the garage full of stuff and my husband felt bad they did not have much help to move so we let them take another 3 days to empty the garage.We allowed 2 weeks to paint and move our tenants in.
Not all tenants are bad though we bought power of sale from Scotia Bank and kept the tenants , that was two years ago and we didn't even get a credit check. The house was so clean ,they had a dog and cat and fish but you would never know it ,best tenants we have ever had.


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

marina628 said:


> ...tenants won't move ... we Already had our own tenant to move into the house and the seller's tenant seemed like an *** when we went to view the place anyway. ... We allowed 2 weeks to paint and move our tenants in.


Sounds like the first tenants might have been assholes, but am I right that you evicted them just to move your own different tenants in? If that's the case, I can see why the first tenants were upset and I think, legally, you're lucky to have gotten away with it. If the house I rent were sold and the new owners wanted to evict me in favour of another (non-related) tenant I'd put up a fight too, even if I were month-to-month.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

JA2285 said:


> You mention he said he actually wants to try and sink you.. Do you have any further information to the situation? Why would someone have such an ill will unless they really thought you were doing something wrong.. As well how much of a lease do you have left and what sort of unit is it?


I can assure you that some tenants need absolutely no reason to try to sink you. I say this because I have met them. Their default position is that all landlords are bad and they'll immediately be difficult and withhold rent and even block you from doing their job for the slightest imagined problems. 

Just last week this happened to me. I have a tenant who needed cockroach treatment, we have already treated her place with gel a few times. In our building we have pest control come out every month. I ordered a special service which costs more for her to spray her unit this time. The notice we gave her said the pest control guy would come out for 12 however he was early by one hour. She got this notice several days before. They guy went into her place and nothing was done one hour before. She hadn't even started. 

She called me yesterday and she was blaming the super because the contractor came an hour before his allotted time and we should have known he was going to and it was all our fault in spite of the fact that she hadn't even started preparation an hour before. 

Now she's withholding rent because I refused to call out another special service for her and I have put her in the regular pest control schedule. 

I have had tenants that have never once paid rent to us and pay into the board after we initiate legal action. 

I have had tenants that try to stab other tenants

I have had tenants that cause a lot of problems for the quality of life of other tenants. Things like partying all the time and throwing garbage bags off the balcony, guests fist fighting, Police and CAS out once a week or so. 

None of these things are problems that originate with the landlord. It's a mistake to think that if you are nice to them they'll reform. They won't, in fact they'll smell weakness and try to make you jump through hoops. 

Most tenants are good... when I evaluate this I look at "what would a reasonable person do in this situation" that tells me more about who they are and if they are upset good tenants or bad ones.


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

...and that list is exactly why I'll buy my own house as soon as I can reasonably afford it. It might not be a good investment, but being away from crazy tenants in the same building as me is priceless. Not having to deal with landlords is a good too... they can also be crazy sometimes, but it manifests itself differently.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

lewin said:


> Sounds like the first tenants might have been assholes, but am I right that you evicted them just to move your own different tenants in? If that's the case, I can see why the first tenants were upset and I think, legally, you're lucky to have gotten away with it. If the house I rent were sold and the new owners wanted to evict me in favour of another (non-related) tenant I'd put up a fight too, even if I were month-to-month.


We bought a house and our condition was house had to be VACANT ,You can't expect new buyer to assume tenants as part of the deal .I did not have any part of the eviction process as they were never MY tenants 
And some landlords may accept tenants with imperfect credit but I never will so as investors you have the right to refuse to get involved with these situations.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

marina628 said:


> We bought a house and our condition was house had to be VACANT ,You can't expect new buyer to assume tenants as part of the deal .I did not have any part of the eviction process as they were never MY tenants
> And some landlords may accept tenants with imperfect credit but I never will so as investors you have the right to refuse to get involved with these situations.


The original tenants probably didn't get evicted - the former owners probably worked out a deal for them to leave (ie pay them).


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

Four Pillars said:


> The original tenants probably didn't get evicted - the former owners probably worked out a deal for them to leave (ie pay them).


If that's the circumstance, that's fine then. I guess I should have said that the previous owners might have been in trouble


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