# Russian meddling...can someone explain?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Can someone please 'splain to me (simply) how Russian meddling / emails resulted in 'mericans electing Donald over Hillary? I never did get it....


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

You can't really prove that it affected the outcome. However, they are suspected of firebombing sites such as Facebook with false information about Hillary and probably spread misinformation or pumped up Trump on other media sites. I think the broader point is not the result but rather that foreign powers, including the US, should not be meddling in other countries elections.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Spidey said:


> You can't really prove that it affected the outcome. However, they are suspected of firebombing sites such as Facebook with false information about Hillary and probably spread misinformation or pumped up Trump on other media sites. I think the broader point is not the result but rather that foreign powers, including the US, should not be meddling in other countries elections.


I agree.. the US would NEVER do that!!!!


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

oops


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Spidey said:


> You can't really prove that it affected the outcome. However, they are suspected of firebombing sites such as Facebook with false information about Hillary and probably spread misinformation or pumped up Trump on other media sites. I think the broader point is not the result but rather that foreign powers, including the US, should not be meddling in other countries elections.


soooo....there must be lots of examples ...like "Well, I was all set to vote for Hillary... then I saw this thingy on Facebook...and it made me switch to Trump" ..???
where do i find this evidence?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think the USA is much more active in attempting to influence various countries election outcomes. I don't see who would care unless Russians were actually voting in the US election. 

The only reason any of this is news is that Trump won & not Hillary...had Hillary won we'd have to listen to a different library of alarming anecdotes.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Apparently the biggest scandal since watergate, except without any evidence.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Hillary's poll numbers in key electoral vote states collapsed after false reports showed up about her. 

Clinton won the majority vote. She lost key electoral states by a few thousand votes.

Trump won the Presidency with electoral votes, which is the legal system but he can never claim he was the most popular and it bugs the heck out of him.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

sags said:


> Trump won the Presidency with electoral votes, which is the legal system but he can never claim he was the most popular and it bugs the heck out of him.


He will take care of that little detail in 2020 eaceful:


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

If you look around I am sure you would find at least 10 times more pro Hillary meddling in the election. So it is really all about nothing unless you want to get serious about every candidate and not just pick Trump.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

tygrus said:


> He will take care of that little detail in 2020 eaceful:


He's doing a fantastic job of it, so far. His approvals are in the 30s%... I guess he's getting to >50% by going to zero first.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> Can someone please 'splain to me (simply) how Russian meddling / emails resulted in 'mericans electing Donald over Hillary? I never did get it....


Here you go, all your questions answered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

I don't know if we can answer how or whether it worked. Russia certainly believes it works because they sunk a lot of resources into helping Trump.

ETA: TBH, I think the Russians care more about destabilizing America than they care about Trump per se. They thought Hillary Clinton was going to win and they wanted to undermine confidence in her prior to her taking the oath of office. It may be that Trump was a happy accident from their perspective.


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## Jaberwock (Aug 22, 2012)

I don't care what the Russians were able to say to gullible, uneducated Americans to persuade them to vote one way or the other. They have got the President they deserve.
But one good thing has come out of the whole mess so far - two crooked, scumbags (Manafort and Gates) have been indicted and hopefully will be convicted of tax evasion and money laundering. And several other scumbags are shaking in their shoes because they know it can happen to them.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

It is highly likely that Russian meddling did tip the balance of the election. After all, the Democrats won the popular vote so it may not have taken many votes to change the outcome. Even Trump now acknowledges Russian involvement. It seems to be accepted that the Russians hacked the Democrats email. The Russians are quite adept at mass manipulation and have used similar campaigns against the Ukraine - usually their techniques involve picking up something that has a grain of truth and greatly embellishing it. Most would say they wouldn't be swayed by such involvement just as most would also say they are not influenced by television commercials. However, every year US corporations find it worthwhile to spend billions on advertising so they obviously find it effective. 

When the Russians do something like this it is has nothing to do with having political favorites such as those who favor Trump on this forum. When the Russians are involved it is because they have their own agenda and they believe Trump would be more favorable to that agenda. (This is very different from those Canadians on this forum who favor Trump even though his anti-NAFTA and softwood tariff agenda would be unfavorable to Canada.) Now if this were, say, Belgium trying to influence the US election it might be less of a worry but Putin regime appears bent on such things as taking control of the Ukraine, jailing opposition leaders, involvement in the middle-east that often is contrary to UN objectives, persecuting certain minorities and and sending agents to kill dissidents.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Why isnt facebook being investigated for collusion? I mean they know who and what ads are being bought on their platform. 

Even if russia conspired to get trump elected, that is not evidence that trump was a knowing participant other than just being a candidate. Thats no crime. Its not illegal for foreign countries to favor candidates. Hell the US has forcibly set up their own candidates at times like the Shah of Iran that time.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I don't think there is any evidence that Facebook was in collusion. I would think it is impossible to monitor all the content posted. However, it seems that they are now taking steps to deal with the issue. 

Apparently foreign influence in a US election is a crime:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

I don't know the particulars regarding the US involvement in the Iran election but I have noticed that when it comes to any issue regarding Trump a favorite argument appears to be, "2 wrongs make a right".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

tygrus said:


> Why isnt facebook being investigated for collusion? I mean they know who and what ads are being bought on their platform.
> 
> Even if russia conspired to get trump elected, that is not evidence that trump was a knowing participant other than just being a candidate. Thats no crime. Its not illegal for foreign countries to favor candidates. Hell the US has forcibly set up their own candidates at times like the Shah of Iran that time.


You are right. Thus far there is no evidence that links Trump to collusion with Russia.

Will that change after indictments to several of Trump's top people ? 

Who knows but Mueller knows what he is doing and if Trump colluded with Putin he will find the evidence.

On the other hand, Mueller is so thorough that if he finds nothing there should be no further debate on it.

Watching Brennan and Clapper yesterday, i got the impression they know more than they can say and it involves knowledge that Putin is blackmailing Trump.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

So the proposed crime is trump called up putin, told him he was running for pres and to hire some russian trolls to post facebook ads in his support?

This is going to lead to an indictment? You guys are dreaming. Collusion is only an offense if it is proven to provided a gain to one of the parties. Now prove how much these ads lead to trumps win? You cant count lost votes like dollars in a bank account. This thing is DOA.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Advising Russians where to direct advertisements against Clinton to be most effective would be a crime.

Lately there has been some indication the Trump campaign supplied voter data to the Russians to target their advertising audience.

The electoral college battles are ones of local geographical areas where a few votes can make a big difference.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

trump is the fruit of the revolt of the proletariat and the proletariat won by using their media (twitter, facebook, youtube) better than the plutocrats used their media (cnn, fox, nytimes, cbs, nbc)

this investigation is a manifestation of the revenge of the plutocrats who very much want to control the messaging


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

fatcat said:


> trump is the fruit of the revolt of the proletariat


The revolt of the _white_ proletariat. Working class hispanics, blacks and asians didn't support him.


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