# seized bank account



## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

My business partner a citizen of Canada cashed a check from Lebanon
several times before without issue.

Now months after being cashed the funds were seized , BMO said because of UN1701.

A year has passed without any indication that the funds will be returned. One recent
response was 'we will check with interpol and release if they ok it'. How dumb is that ?
After a year , they dream up that ?

Our lawyer ($350/hr) insists on negotiating the release instead of going to a judge, which
he says could drag out for years.

Does anyone in Canada have a clue about this ? or is the government free to grab assets until
the accused can provide satisfactory proof of the funds being legal.

My partner is a major bank shareholder of Lebanon with no criminal history, and clearly
owns the funds from his bank. He is also a phd of computer science, bjointree.com patent holder.

The US allows one to pre-clear a bank wire from a sanctioned nation to avoid such a trap.
Canada seems to use this trap 'entrapment' to rob wealthy citizens.


He fears going public as it may put his personal security at risk (wealthy man on the street).

What can be done ?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

As "a major bank shareholder of Lebanon", your partner could start by ensuring that his bank does not service proscribed terrorist organizations. That could help going forward.


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## Market Lost (Jul 27, 2016)

You need to come up with a better story, or at least tell us the truth. The UN 1701 resolution is only to recognize a cease-fire.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

*seized account*



mordko said:


> As "a major bank shareholder of Lebanon", your partner could start by ensuring that his bank does not service proscribed terrorist organizations. That could help going forward.


BLOM bank of lebanon, of the check is in good standing.

Canada unlike America does not offer to preclear funds from sanctioned nations.
Canada now it appears is the financial terrorist of the world, stealing from wealthy citizens from
'sanctioned' nations.
No warning is advertised, instead 'surprise' we can simply grab the $ and wait for you to show it is 'clean'. This is ENTRAPMENT.

The US gives anyone the options to clear a funds transfer upfront.
However in this case several previous checks were cashed without question !
Canada is clearly criminal and cowardly in the matter of seizing accounts.
Wealthy citizens who go to the press are then endangered when in the public .


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

*a fool and his money*



mordko said:


> As "a major bank shareholder of Lebanon", your partner could start by ensuring that his bank does not service proscribed terrorist organizations. That could help going forward.


No one with criminal intent would dare to simply cash a check for millions from Lebanon.
Only a fool with more money than brains would dare to do it, thinking well it worked before.

However Canada sees a fool with his money as their breakfast, simple.
What we have here is financial terrorism, Canada under the guise of a state is robbing
the rich fools ! without warning!


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## sharonpope (Sep 17, 2016)

Happened with one of my friend in UK, he was out of country at that time and had to rush back to get back the account, took some time but the account was restored.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

The reality is that BLOM bank serviced Hezbollah and everyone knew it - until earlier this year US forced it to close accounts of a proscribed terrorist organization. As such, any shareholder of the bank would have profited from terrorism.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

BLOM bank was targeted by Hezbollah. However your assertion maybe the basis for Canada to grab accounts.
Yet grabbing without warning is equal to theft, at least the US gives one the chance to pre clear a transfer.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Yes, Hezza bombed the bank this year because their accounts had been closed due to US pressure. That's what happens when you do business with terrorists. 

The Canadian approach seems to make more sense than the American one. If you provide advance warning, the proceeds would never be confiscated.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

_My partner is a major bank shareholder of Lebanon with no criminal history, and clearly
owns the funds from his bank. ..._

Someone is clearly disputing this, whether it is because of concerns about the source of the money; or about whether it is his right to it; or his right to remove it from the country. Best to take the lawyer's advice.

PS. It should come as no surprise to your partner (or you) that someone is asking questions about money being transferred out of a country that has been in a state of semi-static civil war for over 20 years.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Clearly what is needed is a way to document funds ahead of time. If the documents are accepted the funds can be transferred. What we have now is the 'stone age' of personal wealth transfer. Only the likes of apple can move money as they see fit. An honest joe will be skinned alive if he acts niavely in this current world of terror. I should get documents for funds transfer and seek a license to move the money. There is a huge opportunity here to insure that the honest joe is simply afraid of the governments greed to legally move the funds they have. Now people simply risk moving money that is legal and fear reporting it at the airport. Canada is monetizing fear ! A new funds transfer service provide an "insured" service. Right now there is a mad jungle of fearful borders claiming to be legitimate. Even a 10k wire via western union was blocked by the nit wits in charge !!


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Where is the transparency ? Canada is an agent of fear and greed. Most people at the airport with cash fear the agents will take the funds , as they can simply 'suspect' it. A channel needs to be established for funds to be documents and approved. Perhaps nations will compete to approve funds. Canada is using 'crime' as an excuse to rob the average joe.
My partner is a scientist not criminal . Canada is the criminal here. It is time for the US to take over this joke of a nation with names like "british columbia" that is a pathetic excuse for a nation of cowards.
"beautiful china" is the honest reality. The queen is a symbol of "hell" to say the least.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Is Canada stopping you from fing off back to Lebanon? If it is the "agent of fear an greed" then surely clearing off is a win-win.


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## Market Lost (Jul 27, 2016)

spowage said:


> BLOM bank of lebanon, of the check is in good standing.
> 
> Canada unlike America does not offer to preclear funds from sanctioned nations.
> Canada now it appears is the financial terrorist of the world, stealing from wealthy citizens from
> ...


Did you even bother to look into Fintrac reporting guidelines? Or are you just going to play innocent?


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## Market Lost (Jul 27, 2016)

spowage said:


> Where is the transparency ? Canada is an agent of fear and greed. Most people at the airport with cash fear the agents will take the funds , as they can simply 'suspect' it. A channel needs to be established for funds to be documents and approved. Perhaps nations will compete to approve funds. Canada is using 'crime' as an excuse to rob the average joe.
> My partner is a scientist not criminal . Canada is the criminal here. It is time for the US to take over this joke of a nation with names like "british columbia" that is a pathetic excuse for a nation of cowards.
> "beautiful china" is the honest reality. The queen is a symbol of "hell" to say the least.


Feel free to leave. I don't think anyone really cares.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Canada Border services insisted I contact the dept of Foreign affairs. There website now claims to have
a way to get any transaction licensed. However there are still many uninformed who fall in the trap
set at the airport. The US allows one to apply for a license after getting trapped. Canada prefers to trap
the average Joe.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Most head south via NAFTA to work in the US, it is a rotating door and everyone knows. More than half the skilled exit the queen to work with uncle sam. Canada is a joke, that is a parasite of the global able bodied to replace the crowd heading for the exit door to the south. Only the gov cronies and the corp. snobs remain.


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## Market Lost (Jul 27, 2016)

spowage said:


> Most head south via NAFTA to work in the US, it is a rotating door and everyone knows. More than half the skilled exit the queen to work with uncle sam. Canada is a joke, that is a parasite of the global able bodied to replace the crowd heading for the exit door to the south. Only the gov cronies and the corp. snobs remain.


Cry me a river, pal. 

You want to talk about parasite, look in the mirror. Your story is utter BS, and I have no clue what you're even doing here. First you tell us that you were caught by a UN resolution that has nothing to do with banking because it's about a military cease fire. Then you seem to want people here to believe that someone that is wealthy enough to get million-dollar cheques sent to him is on a small financial forum asking for advice, rather than going to a high-priced attorney? I'm call you out as a troll.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Nah, the anger is genuine. He is lying - of course - he even claimed the question was about "a friend". Then he is both a major bank shareholder AND a normal Joe software developer. Still, there is a grain of truth behind his story. Seems like Canada Border Services are doing their job rather well. Hopefully it will end up with terror-related funds confiscated and his sorry *** kicked out all the way back to wherever it came from. I have serious doubts US would let him in.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

spowage said:


> Where is the transparency ? Canada is an agent of fear and greed. Most people at the airport with cash fear the agents will take the funds , as they can simply 'suspect' it. A channel needs to be established for funds to be documents and approved. ....


Look up money laundering in Wikipedia and you will find most western countries have adopted similar regulations to Canada. So your criticisms of Canada in comparison to other countries is founded on either ignorance or contempt. If your "friend" is indeed a major bank shareholder in Lebanon he should be well aware of this, and keeping up to date on it. Not wasting our time here.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Some moderation is required here, methinks.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

yes the lawyer took $300/hr and did nothing.

fact.
1. bmo cashed the check without informing the customer that the transaction must be reported and the gov may seize the funds as it is from a sanctioned nation.

2. rich dumb people exist. No criminal would throw millions at a bank simply hoping all would go well !!

3. the bmo conspired with the gov to deny the customer of his rights and risks to move funds from a sanctioned nation

canada conspires with the banks to rob niave customers !!!


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## youngdad3 (Jun 29, 2013)

spowage said:


> canada conspires with the banks to rob niave customers !!!


Exactly and it's called "monthly account fees". We're all being held hostages.

One known remedy is to hold canadian banks shares.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Actually Canada is quite good on this front. I'm much more worried in the USA.

In the US, "civil forfeiture" laws allow police to seize assets (including houses and cash), anything they think might possibly be involved in a crime. Police also grab assets from bank accounts. They don't even have to charge or arrest you of anything. There have been many reports of police just grabbing any cash they find in road side stops, taking it away, and the money never being seen again.

You almost wouldn't believe it, until you start reading up on it:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/americ...rge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736

The USA is also much more aggressive about freezing accounts and seizing cash from bank accounts. Police forces and government are very powerful in the US, and you don't have much remedy. The corruption and abuse of this has been growing since 9/11 and the Patriot Act.

I'm not aware of such things in Canada.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Actually, seizure is quite common, especially in BC. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...couver-international-airport/article31787802/

There are lawyers who specialize in the return of seized money. One turned up in my Google search.


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## Nerd Investor (Nov 3, 2015)

james4beach said:


> Actually Canada is quite good on this front. I'm much more worried in the USA.
> 
> In the US, "civil forfeiture" laws allow police to seize assets (including houses and cash), anything they think might possibly be involved in a crime. Police also grab assets from bank accounts. They don't even have to charge or arrest you of anything. There have been many reports of police just grabbing any cash they find in road side stops, taking it away, and the money never being seen again.
> 
> ...


John Oliver has a great segment on civil forfeiture in the US.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

spowage said:


> Where is the transparency ? Canada is an agent of fear and greed. Most people at the airport with cash fear the agents will take the funds , as they can simply 'suspect' it. A channel needs to be established for funds to be documents and approved. Perhaps nations will compete to approve funds. Canada is using 'crime' as an excuse to rob the average joe.
> 
> My partner is a scientist not criminal . *Canada is the criminal here.* *It is time for the US to take over this joke of a nation *with names like "british columbia" that is a pathetic excuse for a nation of cowards.
> "beautiful china" is the honest reality. *The queen is a symbol of "hell" to say the least.*


If you feel that way about Canada, perhaps it is time for you to move out back to the country that you came from.
Don't waste our CMF time or bandwith with your disparaging remarks about our country and your personal nonsense. 
it is counterproductive.

CMF admin: Please revoke the OP's privileges to post here.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

heyjude said:


> Some moderation is required here, methinks.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+1 
this OP is getting out of hand with his disparaging remarks. No room for this kind of behaviour on the CMF.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

spowage said:


> yes the lawyer took $300/hr and did nothing.
> 
> fact.
> 1. bmo cashed the check without informing the customer that the transaction must be reported and the gov may seize the funds as it is from a sanctioned nation.
> ...


First BMO would not just have cashed a cheque from another country. Even with cheques from the USA, there would be a hold of 25 business days unless the depositor was very well known to bank and there was no risk of recovering the money. The client would have been told about the hold.
Second, it is illegal for bank staff to tell a client their deposit will be reported or that it is suspicious.
Third BMO conspired with no one. They are merely following the law. Canada is a member of FATF.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

heyjude said:


> Actually, seizure is quite common, especially in BC.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...couver-international-airport/article31787802/
> 
> There are lawyers who specialize in the return of seized money. One turned up in my Google search.


Thanks, I was not aware of that.

This appears at the country's border though, customs & immigration. In the USA it is a routine practice domestically, which I think is very different.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

spowage said:


> What can be done ?


spowage, it seems like those who are replying (including myself) have not experienced anything like you describe and so I doubt we can offer any help or ideas.

Canada does have the FINTRAC system, as well are other stringent rules for international money transfers. Banks can face very heavy penalties for participating in money laundering or terrorism, and therefore all employees there will be as cautious as possible whenever there is doubt -- and that's what you're seeing. As I understand it, these are rules and regulations from the government. These kinds of rules are pretty consistent in both US & Canada, so I doubt you would see much difference if this was being done in the US.

You seem to be following the correct route: going through your lawyer. Try also this BMO-suggested mechanism of escalation, which goes up to the bank Ombudsman. As you contact each level, keep detailed paper trails and evidence of your conversations, in case you have to sue the bank later:
https://www.bmo.com/home/popups/global/resolving-a-complaint

In all conversations it is important to be polite, calm, and not be accusatory or inflammatory. Claiming that someone or their institution is "entrapping" you, is a terrorist/parasite will only make things worse. If you are dealing with a lawyer, it is probably also most effective to have your communication go through the lawyer. The bank will take you more seriously once they understand they are at risk of being sued.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

I don't know if this relates, but it is a newly-breaking story regarding money-laundering headquartered in sunny Vancouver...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/22/news/companies/pacnet-investigation/index.html?adkey=bn

'We're back baby!'


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

These fraudsters steal billions of dollars and never see the inside of a prison cell.

There were "tax avoidance" schemes going a few years ago. They counted on the fact the CRA issues refunds immediately and then audits at a later date, to prove the worthiness of the "program" to keep people investing. Inevitably the CRA audit letters start going out and the regulators finally get involved.

The authorities investigate for a couple of years and the scammers are taken to hearings. They lose and are ordered to pay fines.

Years later and they still haven't paid the fines. Nobody gets their money back and the fraudsters are off to the next scheme.

Unfortunately, in Canada white collar crime pays.............very well.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> . Nobody gets their money back and the fraudsters are off to the next scheme.
> 
> Unfortunately, in Canada white collar crime pays.............very well.


It seems that way. Although some are caught, very few, if any, are prosecuted here, unlike in the US.

The investment "get rich quick" fraudsters used to be on top of the heap in bilking unsuspecting people out of their
retirement savings. but now there may be a new breed of money launderers.
The money disappears into foreign bank accounts and can't be traced. 
Meanwhile, the defrauded people who were absolutely convinced that they couldn't lose, have lost what savings they might have
used to enjoy life in their last years.

Same old story on promises of high returns..if it's too good to be true , it usually is. 
Then again, with the interest rates they pay on savings these days...no wonder people are ripe to get defrauded when
they are dissatisfied with their meagre returns.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Another example of government corruption. Here where the average house is over a million ,the ambulance
service cannot say when the ambulance will arrive, and claims that it is not a matter of technology. 
An RCMP officer came on the line to assist for some reason in getting in contact with us and the ambulance service.
The ambulance operator explained they had a long list to answer to of various urgencies and so had no idea
of when they could arrive ! Yet the RCMP had no idea how bankrupt this service to the community was at the moment.
Yet,
the technology exists to provide "waiting times" for er rooms ! It surely is a matter of technology that surely
exists elsewhere to provide ETA. Yet they kept us in limbo, where we had to decide to go by car not knowing
when the ambulance would arrive. THIS IS CORRUPTION PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THEY TAKE YOUR MONEY AND THEY WONT SAVE YOUR LIFE ! Another app on my list of to do's to get on with. The government is asleep at the wheel as the citizens in need suffer the consequences.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

even the Vancouver sun recently printed. "Well, last month, in response to yet another Freedom of Information request from The Sun, B.C. Ambulance finally coughed up a database of all 2.4 million calls province-wide over the past six years." The chart shows one can easily wait over 30minutes for an ambulance, while one could go by car in 10.
So this failure to be transparent is costing lives, THIS IS CORRUPTION. they take your money and they take your life.


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## GreenAvenue (Dec 28, 2011)

can someone pass me the popcorn?


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## madmoney (Jan 17, 2015)

This stuff is gold.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Here the Queen's face decorates the currency, where as in the US 'in God we Trust' replaces this image of authority.
However Canada could easily trump the US currency with the basic truth.

The Universal Charter of Peace

1. The universe was designed and created for man to live in peace.

2. Though accidents may happen the history of war and suffering was never intended.

3. Man must research and develop the road to a world of peace.

A currency with this statement would lead the world if the nation recognized it as true, as opposed to a queen.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

spowage said:


> 1. The universe was designed and created for man to live in peace.


I don't believe that's actually true. There has been conflict throughout history. Even in nature, animals prey upon one another. And you left out women altogether.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

.

me i think we should extend the OP the benefit of the doubt, provided he settles down & stops screeching anti-canada hatred like a thug.

after all, more than half of lebanon is Shia & supports hezbollah. The government of lebanon itself is largely Shia & supports hezbollah. Whether or not the gummint is doing a good job for the country is another story but most would agree that the Sunni opposition as it's presently constituted would not be likely to collect the garbage from beirut's streets any better.

a big lebanese bank like BLOM would automatically have some or even many hezbollah accounts. If canada's royal bank or td bank were situated in lebanon instead of in canada - ie head office in lebanon - it, too, would have some or many hezbollah accounts. They might be camouflaged behind local representatives, but they would be present. Say la vee.

where the OP, or his partner or whoever the virtual personnages in this thread really are, made a big mistake was not understanding in advance how difficult it would be to carry on business outside lebanon's borders (as if it were not already difficult enough inside lebanon, which appears to be hosting elements of civil war.) This would include understanding in advance how difficult/risky it would be to carry undisclosed cash or cheque through a canadian border station.

james4 is probably correct when he says that *if* the personnage's money is clean plus *if* he learns to speak politely to canadian bank officials, he stands a fair chance of getting his money back eventually.

throwing tantrums on obscure canadian chat boards is not going to cut the biscuit though


.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

Your right venting here is of no use. The main point I wish to raise is that banks here do not inform the customer of the risks involved in a transaction of a sanctioned nation. The bank acting in its own self interest cashed the check simply so it could hold the funds at some time in the future. The bank knew the gov would freeze the account and leave them the cash to play with. The federal gov also allows the banks to decieve the customer so the check can be cashed, rather than insisting all large checks from sanctioned nations must be approved before being cashed. The bank deliberately withheld vital information of the risks involved . It is a 100% given ALL large checks from sanctioned nations will be subject to seizure after being cashed. The bank knew that !


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Well, I knew this all along. Why didn't your friend make it his business to know?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

spowage said:


> Your right venting here is of no use.


possibly you are beginning to see the light





> The main point I wish to raise is that banks here do not ...


sorry time's up with this refrain. What you might try to understand is that all western countries have developed money-laundering blockage as a critical counter-terrorist protocol. In canada, i doubt you will ever find even one soul who opposes this.

this is the reality, say la vee. It's up to you to change your behaviour & proceed more reasonably towards a solution of the problem.

somewhere close by, another cmffer has very kindly proffered some hints about where you could start on the fintrac website to review facts that could apply to your case. These may not be exactly the hints you will use in the end, but they're a good example of the kind of calm approach that could help you.

.


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## spowage (Sep 19, 2016)

How about an expert witness to testify that no criminal would risk such funds without checking how canada
deals with large checks from sancitoned nations


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