# No Fee Bank Accounts



## xtthew (Aug 16, 2017)

Let's talk about bank fees, or the lack of bank fees.

Currently I have two bank accounts - once for convenience and bills, and the other is where I get my deposits put in to before I transfer them over to my other account to pay my bills. On one I pay ~$16/month, and the other is completely free (Including etransfers).

How many of you make use of "Free" bank accounts and what, if any, downfalls are there to them? I know tangerine charges for e-transfer fee's. I'd consider that a downfall.

The banks I know of that provide free bank accounts are:

National - Tangerine
National - Simplii Financial
Saskatchewan - Conexus Credit Union
Manitoba - Cambrian Credit Union

Which others are there? What are your thoughts on them/against them?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I think all banks / fi's offer no fee accounts. Most require a minimum balance of a few thousand $ though. Consider it your emergency fund. I think paying bank fees is dumb when no-fee options exist.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Our TD chequing account is free of all fees with a minimum balance of $2,000. I've never understood why anyone would ever pay a monthly fee for a bank to hold your money.


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## Danny (Oct 17, 2012)

Currently with President choice now Simplii. Was paying no fees at 1 point with one of the big banks. Then they told me I had to keep 3000 minimum in that account for no fees to apply. So I switched in protest. Was not a matter of me having the minimum to keep in the accounts (believe me I have lots say's Donald trump lol). I switched and never looked back. I still have TD waterhouse account but all my day to day stuff is with Simpii.. Have no issues.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

I'm not too concerned about maintaining a minimum balance so I find there's enough no fee options for daily banking out there for me. 
Then it comes down to perks and convenience factor things like online functionality/account integration, atm availability, atm forex fees/options, branch hours, fees waived for rewards credit card, fees waived for etransfers, etc.


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

Simplii is my "free account" ... because if I need cash I can just go to a CIBC ATM.
OT: Savings, electronic bill payments, what's left of my RIF are with Alterna Bank, EQ, Tangerine and GICs through QTrade.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

If you run your life with no short term savings then looking for some other no fee account might make sense but if you like to have any short term reserve at all (any starts at $2,000 if you ask me) then maintaining a $2,000 balance to have the services of a mainstream bank, all for free, is well worth it. 

My account would generate and then waive about $12 to $16 of fees per month. If I take the $12 per month and make it $144 per year, that savings works out to be equal to 7.2% interest on that $2,000 balance, by way of waived bank fees. Since waiving fees is tax free it works out to be around a 12% pre-tax interest equivalent rate for anyone who might be in a 40% marginal tax bracket.

It definitely works out a lot better then leaving that $2,000 in one of their high interest savings accounts at a lousy 0.95% of fully taxable interest.

Even if you have some special offer with a lower annual fee rate, I doubt it will beat that absolutely free account that requires the $2,000 balance...at least as far as I have seen so far.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There are a number to choose from for the mainstream, 4 of which are banks. https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/free-canadian-chequing-accounts/

Some of the big 5 offer "basic" chequing for seniors for free with no minimum balance requirements that I know of. By basic, I mean, for example, 12 free debit/cheque withdrawals per month or similar. No overdraft protection though but I've never been in an overdraft position anyway. I don't worry about $1 Interac transfer fees either as I only have 1-2 each month although I have been ragging on Scotia to fix that to be competitive. In the interest of simplicity, I don't care to move to Simplii, Motive Financial, Tangerine, etc. for free chequing.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

OptsyEagle said:


> If you run your life with no short term savings then looking for some other no fee account might make sense but if you like to have any short term reserve at all (any starts at $2,000 if you ask me) then maintaining a $2,000 balance to have the services of a mainstream bank, all for free, is well worth it.


On the other hand, a margin costs you nothing until you use it and should be all the short term reserve you need if you have liquid investments to fill it back up before the interest piles up. I don't know if you can get one with any of the no fee accounts however.

Also, those minimum balances start to pile up if you have several accounts, especially as they increased several years ago when interest rates dropped through the floor. I still go that way but more for the peace of mind than because it makes financial sense.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

I have accounts with Tangerine and Simplii, but my main account is now the BMO bundle where you get the chequing, savings, and World Elite MC for free. I like having the branch option in case I need it, and but the free WE card is the key part since the annual fee is normally $150.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Using Simplii, Love it! Can't see any downside- everything is done online or via phone now a days anyways. An advantage is you don't have to go to the bank in person and waste time at their "appointments" only to hear them lure you on more of their products.

Use Questrade for Stocks
RBC mortgage


RBC gave me best rate for mortgage (my brother recommended me). They lured me into their bank account and visa. I had all these products I never used because (PC)Simplii did what I needed. I cancelled the accounts with RBC but still kept my mortgage and am happy with it.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

I have my chequings, savings, TFSAs, etc at Alterna Bank. It's an online bank with no branches and great interest rates (1.9% on savings). In fact I use my Savings account as a chequing, so I get 1.9% on my day to day cash as well. Everything is online, everything is free (except cheques, which is fine for me).


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

DollaWine said:


> I have my chequings, savings, TFSAs, etc at Alterna Bank. It's an online bank with no branches and great interest rates (1.9% on savings). In fact I use my Savings account as a chequing, so I get 1.9% on my day to day cash as well. Everything is online, everything is free (except cheques, which is fine for me).


Alterna Bank chequing is perfect e.g. bought a new outboard last spring, just transferred the $$s from savings to chequing, wrote a cheque, done


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Why would anyone write a cheque unless they absolutely had too?


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

All my bills are on auto pay. I charge everything I buy, and pay my MC by Easyweb. I write one cheque per year. The guy who pumps my septic tank will only take a cheque.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

xtthew said:


> How many of you make use of "Free" bank accounts and what, if any, downfalls are there to them? I know tangerine charges for e-transfer fee's. I'd consider that a downfall.
> 
> Which others are there? What are your thoughts on them/against them?


Tangerine does have a free _Tangerine_ email money transfer. It gives you the option to pay $1 for the _Interac_ e-transfer.. I've use the free _Tangerine_ email transfer twice with colleagues with no issue, recently to a guy who apparently uses a credit union from the small baltic country he was born in.. no issues. I'm guessing the $1 fee goes to _Interac_ because it's proprietary or some bs

I've used Tangerine/ING for over a decade, nearly a decade as my main bank. I've kept a dormant account open with TD with the min balance to waive fees all the while just in case. The only time I fell back to TD was when making a down-payment on a house and the recipients hadn't heard of TD or something if I remember correctly. I doubt that's an issues nowadays

From what I've seen Tangerine adds new features long before the big banks (yet eons after banks in more advanced countries, other countries don't use email to make electronic money transfers and certainly haven't used cheques in decades) A few years TD sometimes adds the same features, sometimes it seems they can't because their systems are so archaic. Eventually I'll close my TD account.



pwm said:


> I write one cheque per year. The guy who pumps my septic tank will only take a cheque.


I also write one cheque per year. The guy who removes my snow will also only take a cheque.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> I also write one cheque per year. The guy who removes my snow will also only take a cheque.


I write 2 cheques a year to the Mexican bank to deposit pesos in my account. Cheapest way to do a money transfer.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I have a few people who only take cheques too, but I rag on them all the time about getting out of the Jurassic age. It can't help but improve their business and reduce their time collecting and posting cheques in their banks. It takes people like us to keep pushing them.


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Why would anyone write a cheque unless they absolutely had too?


Well that's exactly why, and EFT limits, and one-off buys, and then there's the guy that pumps the septic tank  ... and the send us a void cheque so you can transfer $$s back and forth which isn't exactly writing a cheque, but does require a cheque ... alrighty then, enjoy the game


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

rikk2 said:


> and the send us a void cheque so you can transfer $$s back and forth which isn't exactly writing a cheque, but does require a cheque ... alrighty then, enjoy the game


Those people don't really need a void cheque but just the transit and account numbers.. Tangerine makes a PDF of a fake void cheque with the numbers for these dinosaurs

Paypal app is actually pretty good for peer to peer transactions and there's also Paypal.me for friends and family sans fees. Apparently iMessage can also text money now

The standard form of payment for small businesses in some States now seems to be Square on an iPad. It seems to be very popular for food trucks, coffee shops, market vendors etc


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

I've used Simplii as my main spending/chequing account for over ten years and have it's all I need. The only thing I've ever needed that people normally go to bank branch for is for bank drafts, and even that is no big deal if you can wait the few days for it to be processed. And I count that as plus that I don't have to talk to a teller (i.e. sales person) to get them.

I do have a no-fee savings account with TD solely as a means to buy E-Series funds.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

kcowan said:


> I write 2 cheques a year to the Mexican bank to deposit pesos in my account. Cheapest way to do a money transfer.


I write at least 12 paper cheques a year to the US property management co that I rent from. Yes there is an option for online payment (bill payment to arbitrary payee), but you wouldn't believe what happens with this method... behind the scenes, the US bank _emulates_ an electronic payment by printing out (on dot matrix printer by the looks of it) a paper cheque, and mails it to the recipient by postal mail.

That feels awfully clunky to me and that cheque can still be stolen from the mail, so I opt instead to just write a real cheque and drop it off. Instant delivery. I also paid all my Canadian rents by paper cheque.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> If you run your life with no short term savings then looking for some other no fee account might make sense but if you like to have any short term reserve at all (any starts at $2,000 if you ask me) then maintaining a $2,000 balance to have the services of a mainstream bank, all for free, is well worth it.
> 
> My account would generate and then waive about $12 to $16 of fees per month. If I take the $12 per month and make it $144 per year, that savings works out to be equal to 7.2% interest on that $2,000 balance, by way of waived bank fees. Since waiving fees is tax free it works out to be around a 12% pre-tax interest equivalent rate for anyone who might be in a 40% marginal tax bracket.
> 
> ...


That's my logic as well.
For transactions I use a Line of Credit and just pay it off right away.


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## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

OptsyEagle said:


> If you run your life with no short term savings then looking for some other no fee account might make sense but if you like to have any short term reserve at all (any starts at $2,000 if you ask me) then maintaining a $2,000 balance to have the services of a mainstream bank, all for free, is well worth it.
> 
> My account would generate and then waive about $12 to $16 of fees per month. If I take the $12 per month and make it $144 per year, that savings works out to be equal to 7.2% interest on that $2,000 balance, by way of waived bank fees. Since waiving fees is tax free it works out to be around a 12% pre-tax interest equivalent rate for anyone who might be in a 40% marginal tax bracket.
> 
> ...



It's funny to see math showing $0 earned, actually equates to a 12% rate of return.

But I suppose it's a sign of the times, and people have been conditioned to pay for everything that should be free.

In over the 15 years of being with PC/Simplii, my chequing account has been as high as 100K, and as low as a $100, and it didn't matter any. I have absolutely 0 interest in going to a branch to do anything at all. And in those 15 years, there's only once I actually needed to visit a branch for my needs. Because I didn't have a TD chequing account, I had to go to a TD branch with a void cheque from PC financial, so they can link it to my TDDI. Having said that, anyone with a full fledged bank other than TD would have to do the same anyways.


Every single transaction I make, including e-transfers, is completely free. I can order cheques for free, and everything I could ever need to do is all online. I flat out don't see a single advantage of having an account from the big 5. Driving to a branch, with limited hours, only to wait in line, or book an appointment for a sales rep to peddle more stuff on me, is an utter waste of my time. Keeping $2,000 in an account, or paying $15-$20/month for the privilege of wasting my time isn't my cup of tea.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We have an account at one of the big five. But, it is a free seniors account. Moved everything out of the bank a number of years ago-we could not afford to pay high fees nor did we like the substandard service that came with it. Don't even have their premium credit card any more.

The only reason that we stay, and the only reason we go into the branch is to access our safe deposit box. No other reason to go near the place.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> I've used Simplii as my main spending/chequing account for over ten years and have it's all I need. The only thing I've ever needed that people normally go to bank branch for is for bank drafts, and even that is no big deal if you can wait the few days for it to be processed. And I count that as plus that I don't have to talk to a teller (i.e. sales person) to get them.


I've been able to get same-day bank drafts, for things such as real estate transactions, by having Simplii/PCF make an intra-bank transfer to a nearby CIBC branch, and then picking it up a few hours later.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

doctrine said:


> I've been able to get same-day bank drafts, for things such as real estate transactions, by having Simplii/PCF make an intra-bank transfer to a nearby CIBC branch, and then picking it up a few hours later.


That's interesting. Do you need a regular CIBC account too, for this to work?

By the way, beware the recent bank draft catastrophe and maybe look at using wire transfers
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/126210-Bank-draft-nightmare-(UPS-loses-inheritance)


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Bank drafts are fine for local RE transactions because the seller (lawyer in this case) will insist on a phone number and teller stamp on the bank draft in order to validate the bank draft by telephone call before accepting it. That is what car dealers do now too.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

james4beach said:


> That's interesting. Do you need a regular CIBC account too, for this to work?


No; there is a fee though, last time I did it it was in the range of $20-30. I've done it a couple of times, facilitated through telephone banking. You just have to be clear on your timelines and the purpose of the transaction and I always found they would find a way to make it happen.


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## freebird (Jan 19, 2018)

I did the "free" banking thing for awhile (coast capital) but found by that by the end of it, I was paying more monthly in individual fees than I would be if I had a paid account elsewhere, so I switched to TD. I got my free cheques, downgraded to the lesser account, and I'll happily pay $15 a month if it's what I need for banking.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

freebird said:


> I did the "free" banking thing for awhile (coast capital) but found by that by the end of it, I was paying more monthly in individual fees than I would be if I had a paid account elsewhere, so I switched to TD. I got my free cheques, downgraded to the lesser account, and I'll happily pay $15 a month if it's what I need for banking.


If you were paying any kind of fees than you really didn't do the "free banking thing". Last time I paid for anything was about 6 years ago for a bank draft to purchase a car.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

xtthew said:


> ... Currently I have two bank accounts - once for convenience and bills, and the other is where I get my deposits put in to before I transfer them over to my other account to pay my bills. On one I pay ~$16/month, and the other is completely free (Including etransfers).


Seems expensive to be paying $16 a month as the services don't sound exotic.




xtthew said:


> ... How many of you make use of "Free" bank accounts and what, if any, downfalls are there to them? I know tangerine charges for e-transfer fee's. I'd consider that a downfall.


Fees for cheques where some low fee banks offer them for free (same as e-transfer fees).

It does not affect me but some find online and phone access only with no branch/teller a problem

A more complicated process for things like a bank draft.

Most of my family had no problem understanding/working around a one business day delay to make transfers out of a higher interest paying account but Mom did. Interestingly, within the same bank account, it was a problem while from one bank account to another she had no problems with.




xtthew said:


> ... The banks I know of that provide free bank accounts are:
> 
> National - Tangerine
> National - Simplii Financial ...


There are fees for some services I don't think of them free so much as "low fee".

For Tangerine, I seem to recall posts about different account numbers for each asset type so buying a MF from cash meant a transfer from one account number to another. From what my co-worker has complained, CIBC bank works the same way as he complained that one set of paperwork had to be filled out to transfer the RRSP Savings Account cash to the RRSP Equity Account then a second set of paperwork had to be filled out to buy the desired MF.

I use them for savings/chequing and interest rate promotions so I don't know if this is still the case.


Now sure what the current situation is but I though I read from other CMF threads that PCF, not Simplii did not operate in Quebec. I also recall complaints about too low an ATM withdrawal but have never had a problem so it may be more about the size of assets held. Dealing with the mortgage department also had complaints years ago.

Motive Financial .... a division of Canadian Western Bank.

Envision Financial.

ICICI Bank.

EQ Bank ... no registered accounts, no chequest where the only fee listed on their fee schedule is Interact eTransfers.
Zag Bank ... not offered in Quebec, offers registered accounts and GICs.









Joe Black said:


> freebird said:
> 
> 
> > I did the "free" banking thing for awhile (coast capital) but found by that by the end of it, I was paying more monthly in individual fees than I would be if I had a paid account elsewhere, so I switched to TD. I got my free cheques, downgraded to the lesser account, and I'll happily pay $15 a month if it's what I need for banking.
> ...


That's where IMO part of the process is to figure out what services one uses regularly and what ones are rarely or never used.

As long as I don't mess up - it can be years without fees. Even when I do mess up, $3 in ATM fees a year and/or $1.70 in interest charges ... it is either the same or dramatically cheaper.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Why would anyone write a cheque unless they absolutely had too?


The EFT takes a couple of days and the Interact eTransfer has a fee.

The cheque is free, the ATM for deposit is on the way home from work and the deposit is considered to have paid for the investment purchased on a same day basis.



Cheers


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## 30goodies (Jan 10, 2018)

I don't pay for my personal account at RBC. I do pay for my business account at TD $4 a month which I don't mind paying. 

What I don't understand is, even $4 a month is a tiny fee compared to all the services you can get from a major bank - thousand of location, face to face appointment whenever...so what is the big deal with a few dollar a month?

Just drink fewer coffees!


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## Chica (Jan 19, 2016)

My credit union is Coast Capital and my chequing account is no fee, no minimum balance. Unlimited debit card & ATM transactions and transfers and bill payments. I had to pay a fee for bank draft and international wire transfer and to buy cheques. No interest paid on this account. But seeing as how savings accounts are measly interest anyway, not a big deal, but I don't keep more money in there than to cover monthly bills. I think most credit unions offer a similar no fee, no minimum balance account. What has me worried is that Coast Capital got approval a year ago to expand operations out of province, effectively turning into a bank. What that'll mean to the no fee account I don't know and neither do the staff, but if there's any changes, that could mean me getting more active with my Tangerine account. 

I used to work for a different credit union and staff got a free account that was normally $9.95/month for members. When I was laid off I was still on the payroll for a few months with my pay being direct deposited to that account, effectively still staff. I closed that account when the pay ran out. I have zero loyalty to a company that lays me off. I paid a monthly fee when I had an account at TD but closed that account about 15 years ago. I really hate paying monthly bank fees. Yeah I'll pay you more money in fees than I make in interest just for the privilege of letting you keep my money there. No thanks.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

30goodies said:


> I don't pay for my personal account at RBC. I do pay for my business account at TD $4 a month which I don't mind paying.
> 
> What I don't understand is, even $4 a month is a tiny fee compared to all the services you can get from a major bank - thousand of location, face to face appointment whenever...so what is the big deal with a few dollar a month?
> 
> Just drink fewer coffees!


I don't ever need a "face to face" appointment, so why would I pay for that? Frankly, I don't understand why people want "face to face" appointments at a big bank - do they actually like getting high pressure sales talks for products they don't need?

Tangerine and Simplii are owned by Scotia and CIBC respectively, so those free accounts have thousands of locations (by that I mean ATMs).

From the grumbling I hear from the big bank users, the monthly fee is usually much higher, at least $15, unless you park thousands in your account. And they continually raise them (don't count on your $4 staying at that level).

I've been using online banks for nearly 2 decades, I never had occasion to wish I had a big 5 account.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

30goodies said:


> ... What I don't understand is, even $4 a month is a tiny fee compared to all the services you can get from a major bank - thousand of location, face to face appointment whenever...so what is the big deal with a few dollar a month?


Are you using out of date or grandfathered bank accounts to compare?

Checking a few banks - $4 to $5 a month gets what looks like at most fourteen transactions. Teller transactions and sometimes talking on the phone to an agent are included in this total with only two to four being included ($1.25 each one after the limit). 

In the case of CIBC, I seem to recall a notice that they have gotten rid of rebating/waiving the monthly fee for having a large enough balance. In other cases, with higher monthly fees - the details document that there is no way to reduce the fee.


With monthly transactions over the free limit - why pay anything when an online bank makes the transaction count as well as talking to a phone agent unlimited?

Keep in mind that I have needed a teller something like three times in twelve years.

$4 x 12 month x 18 years = $816 for one account. That's without considering that an online transfer to the also free savings account jumps the interest rate from 0.1% to 0.95% or higher.


Cheers


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

30goodies said:


> I don't pay for my personal account at RBC. I do pay for my business account at TD $4 a month which I don't mind paying.
> 
> What I don't understand is, even $4 a month is a tiny fee compared to all the services you can get from a major bank - thousand of location, face to face appointment whenever...so what is the big deal with a few dollar a month?
> 
> Just drink fewer coffees!


If you think it's worth it, that's fine, I choose not to.
I can't imagine what you discuss in a face to face appointment about a checking account. If it's with RESPs, mortgages, investments etc those aren't part of a checking account.
If I need to see a teller to make a transaction, I'll just do it to my Line of Credit.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Just coming back to this due to ebay requirements, what is a good no fee checking account, basically for Ebay. Or do people use another service to sell.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> Just coming back to this due to ebay requirements, what is a good no fee checking account, basically for Ebay. Or do people use another service to sell.


I just use Tangerine or Simplii as my "throwaway" chequing accounts. I have one of each and don't keep money in either. It just passes through.


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