# Durham Real Estate Investment Club



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

For those of you interested in investing in Durham (Whitby, Pickering, Oshawa, Bowmanville etc) or those who may already have income properties in those areas, I would like to tell you what I found when I spoke last night. 

First it is free to join

Second no one is there to sell you anything although there are some real estate agents and mortgage agents there, they are there because they have income properties in the area. 

They invite business people like myself to speak but in a teaching capacity. The format was more like a class than a "speech" People asked questions throughout if they had any both of me and the other speaker. 

Most members are small landlords who own 1 or 2 small properties and want to learn how to better manage their rental business. About 30 people showed up. 

The tone is friendly and informal, jeans and tee shirts rather than dress pants and stuffed shirts  

For those of you interested I can assure you that I am in no way affiliated or benefit personally in any way from you joining and that I am not a member myself although I may be asked to speak (for free) again in the future as I am told my information session was well regarded. 

It may be helpful to many small landlords or potential landlords I learned a lot from the other speaker who was a mortgage agent talking about rent to owns and the requirements for those kinds of mortgages to work out. 

Apparently they have a learning event about once per month or so for their members.

So for those of you who think you might benefit from this kind of club their website is http://www.durhamrei.ca/

I spoke about rental deposits and also gave out a handout with appropriate Divisional Court case law about how such deposits are dealt with from a legal standpoint in Ontarior4. If you go to my blog you can read about more than you ever wanted to know about this specific point.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I own a rental property in Durham and would love to learn more about potential legal situations, etc. 

So just to confirm, the real estate agents and mortgage brokers do not have an agenda to solicit business? 

Thank you for posting this info sesion.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Not that I could see, Jungle. There is even a guideline that says that no one except the speaker is to bring any materials except business cards. 

If you have attended any free seminars published in the paper the speaker's entire goal is to sell you his book, or CDs or mentoring and the information given are just teasers and pitches. 

It's not like that, of course if you happen to need a mortgage I'm sure the speaker would give you one, but he's not there to tell you how great he is and how you buy only his product and why it's superior. For instance the topic could have been, Dominion Lending - Our Great Mortgage products. Instead it was How to make sure your rent to own deal gets a mortgage after the tenant/owner has paid all his money. Paperwork has to be filled out properly to show that the down payment has been paid. So we all learned about that.


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## Scottlandlord (May 27, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Thanks for the info. I own a rental property in Durham and would love to learn more about potential legal situations, etc.
> 
> So just to confirm, the real estate agents and mortgage brokers do not have an agenda to solicit business?
> 
> Thank you for posting this info sesion.


If you are interested in learning about potential legal situations, I'd advise you to speak with someone not only experienced with the Landlord and Tenant Board, but someone who is _actually licensed _to go before the Board.

This is especially important because potential financial penalties have now risen to very high levels.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Scottlandlord said:


> If you are interested in learning about potential legal situations, I'd advise you to speak with someone not only experienced with the Landlord and Tenant Board, but someone who is _actually licensed _to go before the Board.
> 
> This is especially important because potential financial penalties have now risen to very high levels.


What kind of licence do you need to face the board? What if you don't have a licence?


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Jungle said:


> What kind of licence do you need to face the board? What if you don't have a licence?


Since 2006 when the Residentials Tenancies Act came into effect practicing paralegals had to be licensed to appear before the landlord & tenant board. 

Except people employed as building representatives and full time salaried property managers and people who are covered under other acts and "friends". 

One of the choices I faced at that time as a Building representative was that paralegals have to know a lot more about different acts than I did, for example some family law, Small Claims and a few other areas. As I could just continue on as I was (even to this day) if I wanted to continue evicting people for a living (which I did not) I did not go ahead to be grandfathered in. 

Me and a lot of people like me who were experts on Landlord & Tenant law also were not interested at all once the costs involved with being licensed were revealed. All those fees add about $5000 per year to maintain your license, all for job that pays $150 bucks per appearance and some small fees for the paperwork. (That's what I was getting at the time) You'd have to do over 30 cases just to cover these fees. I was just not doing that many once I started my own business. 

In my current business of working for small landlords I feel as though I have to stay abreast of any developments in Landlord & Tenant Law because I have to inform them about the law to help keep them out of potential trouble. 

As late as 2007 I was working for a paralegal covering his extra cases. I did some more cases appearing before the Board until earlier this year I was working as a property manager and that was perfectly legal under the Act. 

In the one case I did for an eviction for my company I appeared as a "friend" of the landlord. I don't get paid extra to fix my mistakes so that too is perfectly legal. 

I don't ever represent myself as a paralegal. This does not prevent me in any way from being extremely competent in this one small area of the law, it is integral to my business to know in great detail the laws that govern Landlords & Tenants. 

In any case when I did my speech I also provided a handout that contained completely verifiable Divisional Court Case Law independently sourced from Canlii and the redacted orders of the board. I don't have the expectation that people will just believe what I say, I back up what I say with documents that a landlord could use at the Landlord & Tenant Board if so required, I spent about two weeks researching the exact information to provide the best examples to the landlords that attended. 

Also I would like to state that even though I did not choose to be licensed the years of experience I have working in that field and considerable time I spent at the Landlord & Tenant Board did not just fall out of my head the minute the requirement became valid or since the last time I was at the Landlord & Tenant Board perfectly legally within the requirements of the Board earlier this year.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Most people on this forum are see to be do it yourselfers. So the free investment clubs will be more of interest, as opposed to any investment club that you would have to pay for (also applicable for investments not just RE).

Good post Berubeland for those who were unaware of the representation rules at the landlord & tenant board.


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## Scottlandlord (May 27, 2010)

I'm sorry but I disagree strongly.

There are a lot of constant changes not only in the laws regarding rentals, but the way things 'actually work.' 

There's a reason why people appearing before the Board are now licensed. It's because too many self-proclaimed "experts" were anything but in past years!

As an experienced landlord I assure other investors to hire a property management company that knows their limits, doesn't self-promote, and has an experienced and reputable (and licensed!) legal team on board. 

If it's a single property manager, hire someone who has taken the time to actually study the law and pass the needed courses to get licensed! This shows they are actually dedicated to their profession. Would you get dental work or surgery done by a person working out of their garage with no license because "it costs too much?"

It's your money, your investment, and the regulatory environment is very tricky. To succeed, hire the best out there.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Scottlandlord said:


> I'm sorry but I disagree strongly.


Really  I'm shocked


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

I have attended this group in the past. I would still attend except that it is usually on an evening that is not convenient for me. There is a great group of people. No one has ever tried to sell me anything. The atmosphere is casual and friendly. I have picked up a lot of valuable information and good ideas from the speakers and other attendees.


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## Scottlandlord (May 27, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> Really  I'm shocked


It's nothing personal.

I simply always make sure the people I hire are qualified and licensed for their jobs.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I have my very own personal troll. 

Scottlandlord you do not own any properties yourself never mind 100 as you claim. It doesn't make any logical sense that you would be simultaneously hateful of the landlord business and own so many properties. Buying and qualifying for all those properties requires a modicum of sanity. Plus the landlords I know are decent hard working people.

I would ask FT to ban you except that you hide your IP address behind a proxy server everywhere you go and will be back with a fresh ID because you just can't stay away from me and my charming personality. 

I have read that trolls act the way they do because they lead sad pathetic lives. They glom on to people because they are jealous of their success. I shall take your sick obsession with me as the highest of compliments. I understand that I'm so great that you just need to be around me and get me to talk to you even if it's just to argue with you. I remember grade school. 

I know who you are now, troll. You can hide behind as many IP addresses as you like. You can't hide your sunny personality and obsession with all my doings.


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## Scottlandlord (May 27, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> I have my very own personal troll.
> 
> Scottlandlord you do not own any properties yourself never mind 100 as you claim. It doesn't make any logical sense that you would be simultaneously hateful of the landlord business and own so many properties. Buying and qualifying for all those properties requires a modicum of sanity. Plus the landlords I know are decent hard working people.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what personal challenges you face. I wish you well with them. 

My concern is with _anyone_ who is providing advice that in my experiences is misleading. Whether it's a Realtor, a property management company, whomever. This business is not an easy one. And forming a great team is one important key to success.


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