# TDB8150 HISA



## CrazyEights (May 17, 2016)

I was just wondering if someone could clarify with me if the TDB8150 High interest savings product through TD direct investing has any trailing or commission fees attached to it?
I know its not a mutual fund, but it uses a mutual fund ticker. But i recently tried to buy some, but i'm not sure what to put where it goes "includes commission" as i understand there is no commission for this fund.

Also as i understand this is not a rear or load fund? so when ever the prompt comes up for this product, am i more less ignoring this prompt and it just applies to actual mutual funds?

Any assistance is always appreciated.
Thanks guys.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

If you are a customer of TD Direct, you can invest in any of the TD e-funds without paying commissions. That is what they mean by "includes commissions". There are no trailing fees.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

There's a message about a trailing fee that pops up when you buy it, but there's no actual fee taken out. Or maybe they pay 1% interest and only give you 0.75% because they're paying a 0.25% commission to themselves, but anyway, as far as it matters it's just 0.75% interest with no fees.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Spudd said:


> Or maybe they pay 1% interest and only give you 0.75% because they're paying a 0.25% commission to themselves


I believe that this is the exact situation. The "F-Series" version, which you cannot get in TDDI, is the underlying commission-free product. I use these HISA accounts all the time, and I know that there is no trailing commission or trading fees.


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## CrazyEights (May 17, 2016)

So from the sounds of it, i basically am ignoring the prompts.

It also sounds like i can disgard the part that says "commission - yes or no"


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

CrazyEights said:


> So from the sounds of it, i basically am ignoring the prompts.
> 
> It also sounds like i can disgard the part that says "commission - yes or no"


I always just leave that checked, but it probably makes no difference.


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## CrazyEights (May 17, 2016)

Thanks guys for the help. Much appreciated as always.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

gardner said:


> I believe that this is the exact situation. The "F-Series" version, which you cannot get in TDDI, is the underlying commission-free product. I use these HISA accounts all the time, and I know that there is no trailing commission or trading fees.





Spudd said:


> There's a message about a trailing fee that pops up when you buy it, but there's no actual fee taken out. Or maybe they pay 1% interest and only give you 0.75% because they're paying a 0.25% commission to themselves, but anyway, as far as it matters it's just 0.75% interest with no fees.


See this link:https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/s...tions/td-investment-savings-account/index.jsp

The standard series (TDB8150) pays 0.75% interest, where the F series (TDB8151) pays 1% interest. So I suppose TD Asset Management is paying a 0.25% trailing fee to TD Direct Investing on TDB8150. Same as if you buy an A series mutual fund in TDDI the fund provider pays a trailing fee to TDDI. Questrade actually rebates mutual fund trailer fees above a monthly threshold.

Functionally though, it is a HISA that currently pays 0.75% interest with no buy or sell commissions.


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## dime (Jun 20, 2013)

Anyone know if there is a short term trading penalty fee? For example on Monday you enter an order to 'buy' 50,000 of TDB8150, but by the next week you come across a good investment opportunity so you enter an order to sell it again. 

Also would this example earn any interest at the end of the month? Or do you need the 50k to remain until the end of the month to actually receive the monthly interest payment which is calculated daily? 

The info page says "The interest payable on a TD ISA shall be calculated daily and payable monthly by way of interest credited to the account. "


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

CrazyEights said:


> So from the sounds of it, i basically am ignoring the prompts.
> It also sounds like i can disgard the part that says "commission - yes or no"


I have been leaving the "includes commission" checked where the proceeds equals the amount I sell. No commission is being taken.


One thing to watch for in a taxable account is that if the interest over the year is less than $50, a T5 form listing the interest will not be issued (same as a traditional bank account). One still has to report the interest on one's tax return. The way I find this is check the Monthly summary statements in the Activities section. The first line item is the interest units paid from the last month, which are listed in both units and dollar value. For example, the first line item for April might have March 31st, Dividend Reinvestment Plan, 0.209 units, [email protected]% PA/NL'FRAC VALUE = $2.09




dime said:


> Anyone know if there is a short term trading penalty fee? For example on Monday you enter an order to 'buy' 50,000 of TDB8150, but by the next week you come across a good investment opportunity so you enter an order to sell it again.


I have bought to mop up the cash $$ then sold two days later with the proceeds equal to what I requested (i.e. no commission or holding period penalty).

I seem to recall seeing a MF holding period statement saying MM and HISA MFs did not have a holding period or penalties for 





dime said:


> Also would this example earn any interest at the end of the month? Or do you need the 50k to remain until the end of the month to actually receive the monthly interest payment which is calculated daily?


Yes ... I've never held anything close to $50K in a taxable account for this fund and have always had interest credited. I'd have to check to be sure but I seem to recall some months when I sold everything to buy something, a few units showed up the following month from the interest paid.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

There's another benefit I missed mentioning ... when looking to buy other investments in a registered account, cash and the TDB8150 give the value one can use. 

Say you've got $10K in TDB8150 and $5k in cash in a registered account, one can buy $15K of stock before selling the TDB8150 as it is counted in one's cash balance for buying purposes. As the buy is being entered, a note will warn the investor that some/all of TDB8150 needs to be sold to fulfill the buy transaction.

I usually buy today then sell TDB8150 the following day.


Cheers


*PS*

I have always bought the first TDB8150 purchase in the minimum amount but for all following purchases, I have bought for as little as $100.


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## getliquid (Mar 2, 2014)

so do you guys put all your extra cash in this fund, and when puting in buy orders instead of selling, it will automatically deduct the required amount from the fund instead of using margin? 

is there a updated list which HISA have the best rate? this list is from 2015

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Sometimes I use TDB8150, for investing cash I will want to use for stock purchases as mentioned by Eclectic12, or if I know I need $x.xx in a specified time frame and don't want to take any chance on losing money, but don't want to use GICs because of the short timeline.

For just keeping dividends and distributions invested I use TD Balanced Index Fund (TDB965). It's a low-cost balanced index mutual fund with $100 minimum purchase. But it is a mutual fund, so takes 2 days to settle, unlike TDB8150 which can be used like cash when entering buy orders. It's not an eSeries fund so I think it's available in most brokers.

https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/fundDetails.form?fundId=2099


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## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm sitting on some USD in a TDDI SDRSP, is there a USD version of 8150 that I could park money in with the same buy any other stock when ready to flexibility?


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Franky Jr said:


> is there a USD version of 8150 that I could park money in with the same buy any other stock when ready to flexibility?


TDB8152
https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/s...tions/td-investment-savings-account/index.jsp


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

getliquid said:


> so do you guys put all your extra cash in this fund, and when puting in buy orders instead of selling, it will automatically deduct the required amount from the fund instead of using margin?


At my broker, margin is separate so it won't come into play without me using it.

Within the registered accounts, the buy action will allow up to the combination of cash and TDB8150 (and presumably all the rest). One still has to sell the TDB8150... though based on the wording of the note, it sounds like should one forget to sell, at some point the broker will sell on one's behalf.




getliquid said:


> ... is there a updated list which HISA have the best rate? this list is from 2015 ...


Unless there is a sizeable amount, I would stick to whatever one the broker prefers. Others may be offered but may have commissions and/or a holding period. Some have large minimum purchase amounts.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

GreatLaker said:


> ... For just keeping dividends and distributions invested I use TD Balanced Index Fund (TDB965). It's a low-cost balanced index mutual fund with $100 minimum purchase. But it is a mutual fund, so takes 2 days to settle, unlike TDB8150 which can be used like cash when entering buy orders. It's not an eSeries fund so I think it's available in most brokers.


I am guessing this also means that in a registered account, one would need to sell the TDB965 if before a purchase that cash won't cover will go through? 


Cheers


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Eclectic12 said:


> I am guessing this also means that in a registered account, one would need to sell the TDB965 if before a purchase that cash won't cover will go through?


Correct. It is not considered equivalent to cash when entering buy orders. Not as flexible as TDB8150 for frequent traders in that regard.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

For me, it's not so much about frequent trading as not knowing when I will identify an opportunity. 

I will check it out though as it may end up in the future that I might have a use for a balanced fund.


Cheers


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Spudd said:


> There's a message about a trailing fee that pops up when you buy it, but there's no actual fee taken out. Or maybe they pay 1% interest and only give you 0.75% because they're paying a 0.25% commission to themselves, but anyway, as far as it matters it's just 0.75% interest with no fees.


Not sure if this was clarified but the commission fees pertains to the dealer who gets paid for placing the order for their client. So client gets 0.75% interest rate and dealer gets paid 0.25% which is redirected to the broker who put in the order. The F-series pays 1.00% to the client and is only accessible through a full brokerage account. No trailing fees here because brokers charge higher account fees to their clients and in turn, offer higher yielding products to their clients.

For the self-directed investor, you only have access to the a-series which pay 0.75%. The 0.25% goes no where.


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## getliquid (Mar 2, 2014)

just to confirm, there is no time lag when using cash/TD8150 to buy equities correct? 

If I place order for $10000 and have $5000 cash, with the other $5000 coming from TD8150, will it sell instantly, or will I be in margin till its redeemed?

Also are there differences between TD8150/8155/8157/8159? the interest seems to be the same?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

The time to settle TDB8150 is 1 day and the time to settle stocks is 3 days, so you won't be in margin. But I think you have to manually sell it yourself, it won't happen automatically. 

I think the difference is in the issuer, so you can have multiple CDIC coverages if you're wanting to put more than 100k in.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Yes you can see the issuers by fund code in the brochure. Each issuer has separate CDIC coverage.
https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/document/PDF/TD ISA Product Features.pdf


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Spudd said:


> getliquid said:
> 
> 
> > just to confirm, there is no time lag when using cash/TD8150 to buy equities correct?
> ...


I usually put in the manual TDB8150 sell order the day *after* buying .... so I don't know what would happen automatically. Never been charged for margin doing this in a taxable account.

The big thing (especially in a registered account) is that the TDB8150 is seen as cash so the the trade to buy won't be rejected for insufficient funds when there is $5K cash and $5K TDB8150.


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

So just to check if I understand this, if I put 100k in TDB8150 and 100k in TDB8159, then is my 200k fully CDIC insured?

Both are 0.75%, I think


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Franky Jr said:


> I'm sitting on some USD in a TDDI SDRSP, is there a USD version of 8150 that I could park money in with the same buy any other stock when ready to flexibility?


franky - you might wanna check out this thread:
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/110377-Parking-USD-in-the-short-term


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

james4beach said:


> So just to check if I understand this, if I put 100k in TDB8150 and 100k in TDB8159, then is my 200k fully CDIC insured?
> 
> Both are 0.75%, I think


That is my interpretation, and I've never seen anything to the contrary. The brochure says


> CDIC coverage of Canadian currency accounts is separately available through each of TD Bank Group’s deposit issuers:
> 1) The Toronto-Dominion Bank (TDB)
> 2) TD Mortgage Corporation (TDMC)
> 3) TD Pacific Mortgage Corporation (TDPMC)
> 4) The Canada Trust Company (CTC)


So you could actually have $100k for each of the above member institutions for each deposit category.

Unfortunately if this for you the brochure also says it is available to Canadian residents only... no ex-pats!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

GreatLaker said:


> Unfortunately if this for you the brochure also says it is available to Canadian residents only... no ex-pats!


I am a Canadian resident with a home (an presence) in Canada. I double checked the regulations on this.


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## getliquid (Mar 2, 2014)

I thought cash and equities holdings in a brokerage account is covered by another body other than CDIC? up to a million per account?

I know from previous threads, Canadian deposits in regular bank accounts are insured by CDIC up to 100K, however, US funds can only be insured by depositing in a brokerage account? 

In this case if I buy the HISA USD version, what would the limit be for the insurance?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

getliquid said:


> I thought cash and equities holdings in a brokerage account is covered by another body other than CDIC? up to a million per account?


If it's in the account "raw" then yes. It's covered by CIPF. But as soon as you invest it in an HISA fund then not anymore, now it's covered by CDIC. At least that's my understanding.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

getliquid said:


> I thought cash and equities holdings in a brokerage account is covered by another body other than CDIC? up to a million per account?


TDB8150 is a deposit savings account that trades like as MF. 

The unit price is held at $10 so the interest is paid as additional units.
http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/



Cheers


*PS*

It is an example of an innovation to meet a need.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Not aware that any US deposits, GIC, HISA are insured with CDIC or to getliquid's question:


> In this case if I buy the HISA USD version, what would the limit be for the insurance?


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Foreign currency deposits are definitely not insured by CDIC.


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## getliquid (Mar 2, 2014)

so the only way to insure USD in Canada is keep it in cash in a brokerage so its covered by CIPF? is the .40% HISA worth the risk?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

You're probably safest in a vehicle like SHV that holds treasury bills. That isn't a bank deposit but holds bonds backed by the US Treasury, yields something like 0.5% or 0.6%. This is safe even if banks and brokerages collapse.

I keep some USD (with no deposit insurance) in a big bank, but the moment there is any kind of banking crisis I would convert it to CAD to benefit from CDIC protection.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Yep, I'm gonna be rich now. I just noticed TDB8150 just upped their rate to 0.85% from 0.75%. It would have been nice to get the full quarter, but better than nothing.

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for the info. Wow, so they didn't even raise it by 0.25%.

0.85% is disappointing, but still a bit better than PC Savings (0.80%).

Just FYI, these are longer maturity vehicles but XSB now has 1.67% YTM and XSH has 2.22% YTM after fees. These are good ETFs for cash storage, some volatility risk, but very tax inefficient in non-reg.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Thanks for the info. Wow, so they didn't even raise it by 0.25%


 ATL5000 is still 0.75%


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Thanks for the info. Wow, so they didn't even raise it by 0.25%.
> 
> 0.85% is disappointing, but still a bit better than PC Savings (0.80%).
> 
> Just FYI, these are longer maturity vehicles but XSB now has 1.67% YTM and XSH has 2.22% YTM after fees. These are good ETFs for cash storage, some volatility risk, but very tax inefficient in non-reg.


you and i have very different ideas about how to store "cash"

xsh is a corporate bond fund, the quality is very good but it is largely composedof big banks whose opaque accounting you regularly rail against

i would consider it to be a very good investment for the stable bond portion of a portfolio but no way it qualifies as a place to put "cash"

i have my cash in tdb8150


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

You're right, I shouldn't call that cash storage. They are bond funds and the corp bonds certainly have risk (especially single issuer risk).

TDB8150 is still a great option for cash storage.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Scotia has increased their ISA rates
https://ads.scotiabank.com/news/rate-increase-cad-investment-savings-accounts

DYN500 and DYN1300 now pay 0.85% interest, in line with TD ISAs


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## leeder (Jan 28, 2012)

Has anyone received the January interest on TDB8150 (and in the US account's case, TDB8152)? I have cash parked in these products in my accounts, and typically I would receive the interest on the first day of the month. However, I haven't received anything for January, which is a bit odd.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

leeder said:


> Has anyone received the January interest on TDB8150 (and in the US account's case, TDB8152)? I have cash parked in these products in my accounts, and typically I would receive the interest on the first day of the month. However, I haven't received anything for January, which is a bit odd.


No. I haven't seen a payday for last month yet either. I think that I have seen them a little tardy on this before. I imagine it will show up probably Monday. It's not like no one would ever notice not being paid. Probably most won't but there always will be a few that will. Like you and I.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Got both of mine on the 1st. TDB8150 and TDB8152. That is in unregistered accounts. Perhaps yours are registered ?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Koogie said:


> Got both of mine on the 1st. TDB8150 and TDB8152. That is in unregistered accounts. Perhaps yours are registered ?


Are those investments inside a TD Direct Investing Account?

I have TDB8150, TDB8155 and TDB8159. Some are in a margin account and one is in a TFSA. Haven't been paid on any yet, for January.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

OptsyEagle said:


> Are those investments inside a TD Direct Investing Account?
> I have TDB8150, TDB8155 and TDB8159. Some are in a margin account and one is in a TFSA. Haven't been paid on any yet, for January.


Both are with TDDI, in ordinary C$ and U$ trading accounts. (my company accounts).


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

OptsyEagle said:


> Haven't been paid on any yet, for January.


Same situation every year for Jan 31 payment of TDB8150. It always comes some time in the first week of February. I use it in my non-registered and registered accounts. Every February I have to wait to update my spreadsheets. Must be some TDDI start of year bookkeeping that slows the first payment of the year.

Likely see it tomorrow in the afternoon.

ltr


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> Same situation every year for Jan 31 payment of TDB8150. It always comes some time in the first week of February. I use it in my non-registered and registered accounts. Every February I have to wait to update my spreadsheets. Must be some TDDI start of year bookkeeping that slows the first payment of the year.
> 
> Likely see it tomorrow in the afternoon.
> 
> ltr


Yeah, as I said before. I am pretty sure I have had to wait a few extra days before. They of course back date it. I suspect it will show up Monday...or it will turn out that the Toronto Dominion bank is nothing but a huge Ponzi Scheme and after about 100 years they are finally running out of new investors.

It's either one or the other.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

what int. rate is the US side (TDB8152?) currently paying? (it's OK...I'm sitting down...)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ LOL ... what would you like it to be? I promise too I won't fall off the chair with your response ...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> what int. rate is the US side (TDB8152?) currently paying? (it's OK...I'm sitting down...)


According to this chart ... 0.65%.
https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/s...tions/td-investment-savings-account/index.jsp


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> Same situation every year for Jan 31 payment of TDB8150. It always comes some time in the first week of February. I use it in my non-registered and registered accounts. Every February I have to wait to update my spreadsheets. Must be some TDDI start of year bookkeeping that slows the first payment of the year.
> 
> Likely see it tomorrow in the afternoon.


Yeah, this is really late. I still don't see the TDB8150 monthly interest (which shows as DRIP) in Activity.


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## Calmoney (Dec 19, 2013)

This is from the TD website, TDB8150 pays 1.10%.

TD Investment Savings Account (TDB8150)	Minimum CAD	$1,000	Maximum $5 Million	1.10%

https://www.tdassetmanagement.com/s...tions/td-investment-savings-account/index.jsp


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## leeder (Jan 28, 2012)

Well, I see the interest for January in my accounts now (trade date: Feb 4). Noticeably late.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I see it too but the trade date is Feb 5. This is in a RESP.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

All mine has now been paid. Trade date was Feb. 5th but the settle date was January 31st. 

I knew it would happen. It was like having money in the bank...err, ahh, I suppose it was in the bank. Anyway, they paid us. Better late then never.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Perhaps a dumb question but how do you purchase units of this? I recently sold off the equities in my daughter's RESP as she will need them for her last 2 years of university. It would be nice to get something a little higher than basically 0% on the cash. However, the online buy options are only for "Stocks and ETFs" and "Mutual Funds". Can you only place an order over the telephone?


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## livewell (Dec 1, 2013)

Its under Mutual Funds in the TDDI UI


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

i bought mine online with RBC-DI. cant remember where it was listed now,....but if I can do it - anyone can! good luck!
(btw spidey...nice timing to be able to sell off the equities around now...I assume you did all right on them & nice to be able to cash them in now & put the proceeds to good use. good on you  )


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

livewell said:


> Its under Mutual Funds in the TDDI UI


Thank you.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

TDB8150 HISA raised to 1.35%.

ltr


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

TDB8150 HISA raised its rate to 1.60%.

I think it's the last bank to do so. I guess they make a few dollars waiting a week or so.

ltr


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> TDB8150 HISA raised its rate to 1.60%.
> 
> I think it's the last bank to do so. I guess they make a few dollars waiting a week or so.




seems the big green is one of the worst when it comes to offering HISA product

some current high HISA returns i've noticed at other institutions: 


some manitoba credit unions offering 2.35 or slightly higher


cibc offering a 3% HISA promotion until march/19 but every withdrawal, even cash @teller in branch, means a $5.00 fee unless funds are withdrawn/transferred online to another cibc bank account


purpose funds offer a HISA ETF paying 2.15%, symbol is PSA although both TD & roybank discount brokers do not allow clients to buy it (other brokers seem to be more or less ok although some have weaker restrictions.) There would be commissions to buy & sell this ETF. The best arrangement would be questrade with zero commish to buy, $5 commish to sell; or natBank if this ETF is on their zero-commission-to-trade list.


some mythical creatures keep posting in cmf forum that tangerine is paying them 2.70 for 6 months or 3.05 for 6 months even though they are not new tangerine clients. Evidently the mythicals have some kind of magic e-mail connection to the big citrus marketing dept since in real life i never heard of any repeat tangerine customer who has been able to top more than 1.60%


.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Beyond brokerage ISAs bought and sold as mutual funds with zero commissions, and select ETFs like the Purpose ISA, there is a lot of current information on https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/ and in forum posts for online banks IF one accepts account proliferation. For example, EQ Bank is offering 3.33% for a 3 month GIC that is pretty close to being considered as liquid as cash. I limit myself to one additional online FI beyond the 2 institutions (BMO and Scotia) that I have brokerage and banking accounts with.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> ...........[*]purpose funds offer a HISA ETF paying 2.15%, symbol is PSA although both TD & roybank discount brokers do not allow clients to buy it (other brokers seem to be more or less ok although some have weaker restrictions.) There would be commissions to buy & sell this ETF......
> .


Interesting, I hadn't heard that TDDI doesn't allow PSA ETF to be purchased. I just went and clicked through a BUY and they didn't raise any objection, but I stopped short when I had to enter my password to seal the deal, so maybe that's when they block it?

ltr


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> seems the big green is one of the worst when it comes to offering HISA product
> some current high HISA returns i've noticed at other institutions ...


While I agree ... I'm not sure comparing a unit traded HISA to regular deposit accounts makes a lot of sense. Certainly for small amounts of cash that will be redeployed in a cash brokerage account, I'm not willing to go through transfer hassles. Even less so for an RRSP where transfer times have been 30+ days.





humble_pie said:


> ... some mythical creatures keep posting in cmf forum that tangerine is paying them 2.70 for 6 months or 3.05 for 6 months even though they are not new tangerine clients. Evidently the mythicals have some kind of magic e-mail connection to the big citrus marketing dept since *in real life i never heard of any repeat tangerine customer who has been able to top more than 1.60%*


As an ING Direct customer that automatically became a Tangerine customer during the buyout - I didn't know I was mythical or had left real life. :biggrin:








By my count - the impossible rate for a repeat customer that the magical Tangerine email connection provided has a run time of about eleven months, after the extension was added.


Some will be shifted as Simplii has added a 3.15% offer until Feb 28th, 2019 that does not have withdrawal fees.









Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> ... IF one accepts account proliferation. For example, EQ Bank is offering 3.33% for a 3 month GIC that is pretty close to being considered as liquid as cash. I limit myself to one additional online FI beyond the 2 institutions (BMO and Scotia) that I have brokerage and banking accounts with.



excellent point, just one online working HISA alternative is perfect for me as well, although some mariners are happy navigating among 2, 3 or more.

oddly a significant number of those online HISAs - EQ is one of these - do not offer in quebec. The likely reason would be the cost of obligatory translation of all documentation into french - specialized translation such as financial, legal or engineering texts is extremely expensive, in fact it costs more to translate a prospectus into french than it would cost to pay a francophone lawyer to draft the document in the first place.

speaking of what's available through one's existing brokers, a HISA i've bought at a broker is the Purpose managed PFC 2200. This instrument owns the above-mentioned ETF PSA, but it's a class A fund so its embedded trailer fees take the yield down to something like 1.55 or 1.60. Minimum investment is very small, only a few thousand $$.

not all brokers are willing to deal in it - the TD, with its rabid restrictions against competitive HISA accounts, will strictly not allow purchase of PFC 2200. BMO does allow so that is where i ended up buying it (BMO has weak restrictions against this fund but most clients should be able to work around the restrictions.)

why so much flap about a HISA like PFC 2200, which yields only a miserable 1.60? because the fund management will result in all of this fund's distributions becoming either ROC (majority of the revenues) or else capital gains. For larger holdings, those are favourable tax consequences.

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> I'm not sure comparing a unit traded HISA to regular deposit accounts makes a lot of sense. Certainly for small amounts of cash that will be redeployed in a cash brokerage account, I'm not willing to go through transfer hassles. Even less so for an RRSP where transfer times have been 30+ days.



actually i wasn't writing about small daily cash management, i was posting to parties who are deploying cash over possibly longer periods of time, in larger blocks such as $100k

i imagine everybody has strategies for small daily cash management, they'd use local broker's HISA no matter how terrible it was, or else some like myself wouldn't bother to do anything for amounts less than $10k







Eclectic12 said:


> As an ING Direct customer that automatically became a Tangerine customer during the buyout - I didn't know I was mythical or had left real life. :biggrin:


that's the thing, i did speciy a being whom i had met in real life .each:

ps Simplii is another network that doesn't offer in quebec. oh the discwimination! i should protest violation of my charter wights! maybe join the partee quebecois!

.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Good to see the yield on TDB8150 finally tick higher, but yes it's been disappointing. These days I'm keeping most of my cash at Outlook Financial (MB) at 2.40%

The Simplii offer doesn't do anything for me since the high rate is only given on new deposits, and my cash was already there. So I'm actually taking money _out_ of Simplii these days.

PSA is an interesting way to get some extra yield, but beware some of the caveats. No CDIC protection, but they mainly hold Manulife Bank deposits. They squeeze out extra yield by holding fixed-term GICs at small credit unions so the fund does not quite hold "cash". There may be some liquidity risk there.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

HP, I asked Tangerine for an extension on their promo earlier this year, they said no. I then moved everything over to EQ, then about three months later I got an email from Tangerine offering three percent for six months!
Needless to say I’m back to orange (not as in Trump....):tongue:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> actually i wasn't writing about small daily cash management, i was posting to parties who are deploying cash over possibly longer periods of time, in larger blocks such as $100k ...


Fair enough ... though with such large amounts, I doubt many, if any would be looking at something like TDB8150 as a longer place to be parking that amount.




humble_pie said:


> ... i imagine everybody has strategies for small daily cash management, they'd use local broker's HISA no matter how terrible it was, or else some like myself wouldn't bother to do anything for amounts less than $10k ...


With a few clicks and having the units treated as cash, I'm happy to collect the crumbs versus the microscopic amounts the broker would pay. 





humble_pie said:


> ... that's the thing, i did speciy a being whom i had met in real life .each:


With the reference to mythical creatures posting on CMF, it read more to me to be questioning whether the rate claims were accurate instead of a meet up. 

In my case, meeting in real life for Tangerine customers works out to a couple of family members, with few discussions of rates. It sounds like you have a larger sample size will to discuss financial topics, including rates. 


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> ... The Simplii offer doesn't do anything for me since the high rate is only given on new deposits, and my cash was already there. So I'm actually taking money _out_ of Simplii these days.


That's where having both a Simplii and Tangerine account comes in handy at times.

Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Dilbert said:


> HP, I asked Tangerine for an extension on their promo earlier this year, they said no. I then moved everything over to EQ, then about three months later I got an email from Tangerine offering three percent for six months!
> Needless to say I’m back to orange (not as in Trump....):tongue:



dil it was your ravishing allure & your scintillating aura, they espie'd your glow through the ether

lucky you, you have joined eclectic & the elite gang of mythical creatures

reportedly you guys are few in number, they just do it to whip up interest (pun)

the rest of us mortals either languish with low interest or else we have to depart in search of greener shores

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> PSA is an interesting way to get some extra yield, but beware some of the caveats. No CDIC protection, but they mainly hold Manulife Bank deposits. They squeeze out extra yield by holding fixed-term GICs at small credit unions so the fund does not quite hold "cash". There may be some liquidity risk there.




jas4 you've said this before but alas i'm afraid it's not accurate. Wondering where you are getting your data from? it must be a 3rd party source, possibly a wee bit sloppy

i've looked at the purpose PSA financial statements. In recent years this ETF has held roughly 66% as deposits divided equally between manulife & national bank. In other words, roughly a third in manulife paper plus another third in natBank paper.

very recently purpose says it's added bank of nova scotia, so the 2/3 financial allocation is now divided among 3 majors. The remaining 1/3 of their deposit portolio continues to be divided among a number of credit unions & small depositories, as you say.

i have not seen the new scotia allocation because it's very recent. Doesn't appear in the semi-annual of 30 june/18. Won't appear until the audited annual of 31 december/18, which won't be released until next march at the earliest.


re risk in general in MMF/HISA funds, if one looks at the full list of holdings as set forth in annual & semi-annual financial statements, one will always spot the most unheard-of & the most outlandish holdings, sandwiched in among bigger names such as manulife & natBank. Those tiny unheard-of deposits are what deliver the higher returns to all of these funds. The returns that allow the HISAs to distribute more to clients than T-bill rate.

i'm left wondering, Why pick on purpose? frankly i see more Unheards-of in the big bank premium MMFs than purpose has. If you look under their hoods, at their audited financial statements, all the big banks have Unheard-of Trustco paper in their deposit portfolios. The interesting fact is that, if one googles the names of those individual Unheard-of Trustcos, it will turn out that they are all sub-prime loan subsidiaries of the big banks themselves. Sub-prime mortgages. Sub-prime car loans. Sub-prime personal loans.

the above observations belong to the dark side of banking. I'm not an expert in this part of the dark side, but i do know that this forum has never had a member who had worked in the high-interest liquid money sector, who has expertise in that sector, who could lucidly explain how the sector works & how the risk of each MMF or HISA can be quantified by the average investor.

having or not having CDIC coverage up to $100K would be an important diagnostic tool for a retail investor, i would imagine. I don't know of any MMF or HISA-type ETF that would be able to offer CDIC coverage though.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I can't remember the breakdown but you may be right, could have a lot of National as well. The latest financial disclosures cannot be found on the Purpose site; you have to go to SEDAR. Yes, a smaller amount is with the other credit unions. There is some liquidity risk from holding GICs but probably not too great a concern, assuming they keep GICs a small % of the fund.

humble_pie, would you agree on this ranking of risk? Starting from safest:
1. big bank savings bank accounts (CDIC)
2. broker ISA deposits (CDIC)
3. credit union savings accounts
4. PSA fund
5. MMF


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> dil it was your ravishing allure & your scintillating aura, they espie'd your glow through the ether
> 
> lucky you, you have joined eclectic & the elite gang of mythical creatures
> 
> ...


Must be those pheromones I read about in the back of Road & Track magazine! I feel compelled to visit Loch Ness for some reason....


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## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

I read through all the pages, it is clear that if you own 8150 in a registered account it is treated like cash when you go to make a trade.

Is it the same with non reg account, will the holdings in 8150 be counted towards my available cash balance to buy stock?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Probably ... but with T+2, cash or equivalents are not required to place then have the order filled in a non-registered account.

Registered accounts have contribution limits so there is a more pressing need to have cash or equivalents on hand as there may not be contribution room available to top up before the settlement date.


Cheers


*PS*
Or to put it another way - there can be zero dollars/zero TDB8150 in the non-registered account (which I had done) and the buy order will be accepted/filled. The settlement date is when the cash has to be there, which is after the order was filled.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Franky Jr said:


> I read through all the pages, it is clear that if you own 8150 in a registered account it is treated like cash when you go to make a trade.
> 
> Is it the same with non reg account, will the holdings in 8150 be counted towards my available cash balance to buy stock?


Yeah, I've always used TDB8150 as my HISA account, just like cash. I always buy my stock(s) first, and then when I see how much cash I'll need to cover, I sell that amount of TDB8150. The cash is there before the stocks settle.

ltr


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Has anyone received their T5 Tax Slip for TDB8150 this year?

It arrived last year the end of February, but no sign of it this year.

It's the only slip that still gets shipped by snail mail.

ltr


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Not yet. I have 1 T5 from TDDI, but I'm expecting 2 more.
I'll be waiting another month before pulling everything together.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Some of these come in rather slowly since they are handled by the Asset organization and are mostly T3s rather than T5s. My HISA T5 from Scotia iTrade (ADS Bank) came in late last week, and it too, is the only one I get via snail mail. The "mutual fund" industry is woefully behind the 8 ball.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Got my T5 for TDB8150 last week. If it's less than $50, I don't think you'll get one.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Retired Peasant said:


> Got my T5 for TDB8150 last week. If it's less than $50, I don't think you'll get one.


Thanks RP, I guess they're coming slower than usual. I can wait, as I always owe money, but I like to get a start on it without having to go and add up the 12 distributions from my monthly reports.

ltr


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I have a Qtrade account and wanted to park some cash. I asked if they had a "investment savings account" fund like TDB8150. This was his reply:

_Thank you for your email to Qtrade Investor. Yes, you can invest in TDB8150 or a whole host of other similar high interest savings accounts. The Canadian Capitalist blog has a good list of them, of which most are available on our platform. Some popular ones are BTB100 and DYN5000. _ 

I was surprised that was possible, then I found this article by Rob Carrick:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...cle19058090/&usg=AOvVaw1IApZXihGvmFwRbsNAtVo8


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

A good article but it is dated some. I believe Hollis is no more for everyone that lists it. At least with the Scotia iTrade, Hollis DYN500, for example, has become ADS Bank DYN5000 for CAD ISAs and DYN501 has become DYN5001 for USD ISAs.


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## john.cray (Dec 7, 2016)

I see a lot of people complaining about late tax slips from TD and Scotia ISAs from previous years.
I have some money in the DYN series and am still waiting for the tax documents. Has anyone else received them already ?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

john.cray said:


> I see a lot of people complaining about late tax slips from TD and Scotia ISAs from previous years.
> I have some money in the DYN series and am still waiting for the tax documents. Has anyone else received them already ?


I received a T5 from "Dynamic Funds" for my DYN ISA within iTrade


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I received a T5 from "Dynamic Funds" for my DYN ISA within iTrade


Both my ex (DYN5000) and myself (DYN5001) received our T5s on March 5th from ADS Bank. P.S. If you didn't have $50 in interest, you likely won't ever get one, but of course you have to report it anyway.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

like_to_retire said:


> Has anyone received their T5 Tax Slip for TDB8150 this year?
> 
> It arrived last year the end of February, but no sign of it this year.
> 
> ...


Quoting a post I made last year, I notice all the Tax Slips for 2019 posted on TDDI today, and for the first time they have included the TDB8150 T5 slip which is usually sent separate and late from the mutual fund division. This year it's in with the rest of the slips. Finally.

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> Quoting a post I made last year, I notice all the Tax Slips for 2019 posted on TDDI today, and for the first time they have included the TDB8150 T5 slip which is usually sent separate and late from the mutual fund division. This year it's in with the rest of the slips. Finally.
> 
> ltr


From TDDI: 

New this year! 
For the first time this year, any T3/RL-16s and T5/RL-3s issued by TD Asset Management for TD mutual funds you own will be available in eServices. You'll be notified by email when these tax slips are posted.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I got a T5 in the mail yesterday from TDDI for TDB8150 and I get all my tax slips in eServices. There's another T5 in eServices for my dividend income, but the one for TDB8150 is not online.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

pwm said:


> I got a T5 in the mail yesterday from TDDI for TDB8150 and I get all my tax slips in eServices. There's another T5 in eServices for my dividend income, but the one for TDB8150 is not online.


Yeah, interesting. I had read the announcement that "Money17" posted above and had gone to my tax documents tab and saw all the new slips and just assumed the TDB8150 was among them. I wasn't going to download them until I was ready to do my taxes. But you're quite correct, on closer examination my TDB8150 slip is also not there. So, I went to my snail-mailbox and just like you I find the slip. Oh well, I suppose it will show up online as they did say we'd be notified when the slips are posted.

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Here are TD’s estimated dates for tax slips.

Tax documents and distribution dates

REGISTERED ACCOUNTS
Document	Description	
Expected distribution date

RSP Contribution Receipts	All RSP Contributions 
Week of January 6, 2020 for any contributions made between March 2 and December 31, 2019.

Weekly starting January 6, 2020 for contributions made in the first 60 days of 2020. 

NR4 Retirement Savings Plan (RSP)	Non-resident withdrawals from RSP	March 31, 2020
NR4 Retirement Income Fund (RIF)3	Non-resident withdrawals from RIF March 31, 2020
T4RSP	Withdrawals from RSP	March 2, 2020
T4RIF	Withdrawals from RIF	March 2, 2020
Relevé 2	Quebec residents - submitted with T4RSP/T4RIF March 2, 2020
T4A/Relevé 1	Registered Education Savings Plan (RESP) withdrawals	March 2, 2020
T4A/Relevé 1	Registered Disability Savings Plan (RDSP) withdrawals	March 2, 2020


NON-REGISTERED ACCOUNTS
Document Description	Expected distribution date
T5/R3 (Mutual Funds)	Income Distribution from Corporate Class Mutual Funds and High Interest Saving Account	March 2, 2020 from the fund company
T3/RL-16 (Mutual Funds)	Income Distribution and Return of Capital from Mutual Funds	March 30, 2020 from the fund company
T5/R3	Dividend and interest income equal to or greater than $50	March 2, 2020
T5/R3	All Split Corporation income	March 2, 2020
T5008/R18	All dispositions (sales, redemptions and maturities) for the tax reporting year.	March 2, 2020
T3/RL-16	Trust unit income	March 31, 2020
T5013/RL-15	Partnership income March 30, 2020
NR4	Distributions to non-residents	March 31, 2020
1042S	US Source Income* Reporting for Simple Trust, Grantor Trust, and Partnership reporting	March 16, 2020
1099INT	U.S. person receiving interest income	January 31, 2020
1099DIV	U.S. person receiving dividend income	January 31, 2020
1099B Substitute	U.S. person receiving proceeds from sale	February 17, 2020
Other non-government reports	Investment Income Summary if receiving a T5	March 2, 2020
Trading Summary	March 2, 2020
Summary of Trust Income, excluding Mutual Funds	March 30, 2020
Pending Trust Unit Summary	March 30, 2020


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Interesting that for some items, the date is giving them buffer versus what has been done in previous years for me.

My first T5 plus the annual trading summary tends to become available early Feb and the second one about a week later for eligible dividends.
The first T3 usually arrives early March with the second one about a week later (though the ETF T3 used to arrive late Mar consistently).


This year seems to be following the pattern as the first T5 plus annual trading summary for this year was made available Feb 11th. 


Cheers


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....these thread comments seem very familiar to me.....am I having deja vu, all over again...?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

pwm said:


> I got a T5 in the mail yesterday from TDDI for TDB8150 and I get all my tax slips in eServices. There's another T5 in eServices for my dividend income, but the one for TDB8150 is not online.


I did finally get the T5 tax slip from TDAM for TDB8150 online eServices today at TDDI.

ltr


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

TDB8150 down to 1.10%

ltr


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> TDB8150 down to 1.10%
> 
> ltr


better then Royal Bank. Their HISA went to 1.05%


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

There's your 50 bps showing up. I sold all my TDB8150 last Friday in my TFSAs and taxable accounts getting ready to deploy that cash.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

pwm said:


> There's your 50 bps showing up. I sold all my TDB8150 last Friday in my TFSAs and taxable accounts getting ready to deploy that cash.


same. Don't see a point to hold at these levels.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Perhaps. Equity markets could keep sliding throughout most of this year, with lows well into bear territory. Very dependent on whether COVID-19 is contained within the next 3 months.


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## Banff (Jun 2, 2019)

pwm said:


> There's your 50 bps showing up. I sold all my TDB8150 last Friday in my TFSAs and taxable accounts getting ready to deploy that cash.


Where?


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I like MICs and REITSs at this time. I'll be increasing my holdings in XRE and FC.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I see TDDI HISA TDB8150 rate lowered to 0.20%

So now the dealer who makes 0.25%, ends up with more than the client.

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is perverse. Write IIROC and CSA to complain why there is a 25bp trailer on DIY ISA deposits. It is criminal. We should be able to get F class with an extra 25bp to us, or at least a D class that limits the trailer to 10bp or so. An email would be good enough. Both IIROC and CSA are well aware of trailer fee 'issues' with DIY investors.



https://www.iiroc.ca/industry/member-resources/Documents/IIROC_Complaints_Brochure_en.pdf








CSA | About Us | Contact us


The headquarters of the Canadian Securities Administrators CSA is located at Tour de la Bourse, 800, Square Victoria, Suite 4130, Montreal, Quebec H4Z 1J2. Phone: +1 514 864 9510. Email: [email protected]



www.securities-administrators.ca


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> It is perverse. Write IIROC and CSA to complain why there is a 25bp trailer on DIY ISA deposits. It is criminal. We should be able to get F class with an extra 25bp to us, or at least a D class that limits the trailer to 10bp or so. An email would be good enough. Both IIROC and CSA are well aware of trailer fee 'issues' with DIY investors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It does seem strange that when I invest in something, that my broker gets 125% of my return as an MER.

ltr


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

like_to_retire said:


> I see TDDI HISA TDB8150 rate lowered to 0.20%
> ltr


TDB8150 appears to have now changed to 0.25%.

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

TDB8152 (the USD savings account) has increased its rate to 0.55%

Also, should we be starting a campaign to write to IIROC and CSA to complain about these trailer fees? @AltaRed explained the problem in the earlier posts.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't know if these 'deposit accounts' fall under either IIROC or MFDA jurisdiction, nor are they likely securities as defined by CSA. They are CDIC insured deposits simply marketed under the Fundserv system.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I think the IIROC rules is strictly about mutual funds -- which the ISAs are not. While I have no doubt the big bank lawyers have considered the question already, it could not hurt asking the IIROC what they think.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gardner said:


> I think the IIROC rules is strictly about mutual funds -- which the ISAs are not. While I have no doubt the big bank lawyers have considered the question already, it could not hurt asking the IIROC what they think.


There was a class action lawsuit a year or two ago, regarding inappropriate mutual fund fees at self directed brokerages. I got in touch with the lawyers and asked if ISAs can be included but they said no, it's not part of that particular lawsuit. And as you say, ISAs are not mutual funds.

They're just deposit accounts where trades are placed through the mutual fund system for convenience.

The 0.25% trailing fee still seems wrong to me. The ISA terms indicates that "The Bank does not currently charge any service or transaction fees", and that 25 basis point fee is taken by the discount brokerage. But they aren't providing any service... this is self-directed where I do all the work.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

The other way they will look at it is with mutual funds the trailer fee was removed directly from the fund the investor was invested in. With HISA, the bank pays "X" interest to the depositor and then pays 0.25% to the the dealer as a referral fee. This fee is not paid annually it is paid once when the money is deposited. The fee varies, based on the term of the deposit, but it is paid once.

I doubt this transaction cost is going to go away anytime soon.

EDIT: Sorry, I was thinking of the GIC fee. The HISA fee would be paid annually, a lot like a trailer. The part about not taking it from an investor fund is the same as the GIC fee however.


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## Brainer (Oct 8, 2015)

Where does one lookup the current yield on TDB8150. I swear sometimes the more the Internet grows, the less competent companies become at helping us find information.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Brainer said:


> Where does one lookup the current yield on TDB8150. I swear sometimes the more the Internet grows, the less competent companies become at helping us find information.


TD is actually pretty good with these ISAs. All the info is on this page






TDAM | Additional Solutions


In addition to mutual funds, TD Asset Management offer several other ways to help grow and protect your wealth. Learn more.




www.td.com





In WebBroker you can also enter a quote under the mutual fund tab. In the fund quote, you'll see the yield.


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## pearl (Mar 5, 2015)

TDB8151 has better rate than TDB81510. I usually buy TDB8150 in TD Waterhouse. Can we buy TDB8151 in my TD Web broker? Thanks


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

pearl said:


> TDB8151 has better rate than TDB81510. I usually buy TDB8150 in TD Waterhouse. Can we buy TDB8151 in my TD Web broker? Thanks


Try it and see. What's the harm?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

pearl said:


> TDB8151 has better rate than TDB81510. I usually buy TDB8150 in TD Waterhouse. Can we buy TDB8151 in my TD Web broker? Thanks


The latter is F class (no trailer fee) which is for advisors only in most cases.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

pearl said:


> TDB8151 has better rate than TDB81510. I usually buy TDB8150 in TD Waterhouse. Can we buy TDB8151 in my TD Web broker? Thanks


No it doesn't show up in the trading tab since it's "with advisers" only.


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