# Roofing Contractors



## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Looking to get my roof reshingled this summer and was trying to find a free website that has reviews for contractors in Ontario. Any such sites exist, only found Angies List but its not free, what to keep with the Frugality Theme :biggrin:


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm in BC but I've been using Handycanadian.com and homestars.com. Goodluck


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

DO NOT USE HANDYCANADIAN.COM,HOMESTARS-(unless you want a fly by night)Young i'm srry but the sites you listed is asking for trouble!really bad advice)You don't want a ''handyman''!CRCA-canadian roofing contractors association.Members in crca are not handymen-Hire a pro(otherwise you will have a mike home episode).
I'm a roofing contractor by trade.Take a peak at crca site/members and then take a peak @ handy/angie list ect.....It should be clear from there.Professional don't advertise on gimmick sites.Roofing is not something to be frugual with.It covers/protects your largest investment(home) and is extremely important.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Thankyou both for the post backs. I fully plan on paying for a professional roofer not a fly by night. Just posted in the frugal section mainly to get good advice on hiring a good roofer. Fully expect to pay between $5-6,000 for my one level bungalow roof reshingle.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I can attest, years ago when we were young we hired a 'roofer' without contract, and, looking back, a fake reference. It cost us in the end, roof leaks within one year and we had to pay a professional to have it redone. Luckily we've learned from our mistake.

Same with electrical, please do not hire anyone in Ontario unless they are listed on the Electrical Safety Authority's website (esasafe.ca I think) as an electrical contractor. I found out that 'licensed', or having their 'ticket' or 'red seal' does not mean they can do work on your house - they have to be an electrical contractor with an ESA number, otherwise they have no insurance and can not pull permits in Ontario.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

in most neighbourhoods, the houses were all built around the same time so the roofs all need replacement around the same time. You can watch who else is getting a roof and knock on a few doors. 
I'll bet in a town like Kingston, the table of old guys at Tim Horton's on a weekday morning would also be able to tell you who does the good work. Expect to wait 3 months for the best. 
Your estimate of cost is probably about right.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Those tables of old guys at the Timmie's are amazing to listen to. :encouragement:


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

You can also visit supply houses(roofmart ect)not home depot or rona but suppliers that deal with only roofing supplies-Most cases they will give direction for the reputable outfits they do business with.Most people have people in there circle who knows someone in the business.20% of my work is repairing mistake done by truck and ladder guys or gypsy's that are gone and will never talk to you again as soon as they drive off your driveway.Roofing is one industry you really have to be buyer beware----Most roofs aren't cheap either,mostly 5/7k and up(basic ranch style house) and depending on scope/size/pitch/condition ect can even equal the cost or above the price of a new car.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks for that hystat, sensible advise indeed.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I watched a show on CBC Market Place and it was an eye opener in regards to the roofing industry. Gave me some food for thought for sure.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Hi Don, thanks for the solid advice. I checked the CRCA site and theres just one roofer on it in our area. So I am assuming that most others don't want to pay a listing fee for being a member or just aren't up to a high standard. I will check further into the roofing company listed on the site for our area.

http://www.amherstroofing.com/
Paul


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Speaking of rooves (roofs?), is the added expense of a metal roof really worth it?


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Well roof is done by a local company. Got references and checked them out, drove to sites for confirmation and visual. Total cost $4,700.00 used TimberLine Shingles.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

From a financial standpoint metal roofs are well worth the money. They cost almost twice as much but will last 50 years vs 10 - 20 for shingles.

Friend of mine lives in a house his grandfather built 120 years ago. The tin roof they put on when they built it, is still intact and does not leak. They paint it every 20 years.

Of course this only applies if you own the house for 15 years or more. If you sell before then you save nothing.


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## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

newfoundlander61 said:


> Well roof is done by a local company. Got references and checked them out, drove to sites for confirmation and visual. Total cost $4,700.00 used TimberLine Shingles.


I just got a new roof this week too for a cost of $6800 plus GST. Used Oakridge shingles by Owens Corning.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Shingles have come along way rusty(fiberglass based)and the install specs(Ice and water shield,synthetic underlay,venting meeting code ect)The old days of asphalt based shingles are over.(the ''green'' ''enviro'' movement has created longer lasting materials)
I'm not saying metal does not have advantages because it does but at a upfront cost of double the price i don't think it is worth it.
Keep in mind insurance work(people discount it on forethought)even though you pay a premium for house insurance a very large number of people ''catch'' hail damage ect in a 20-25 yr cycle(You have reasonable odds)A large number(almost half)is insurance work(i deal with insurance companies on a huge amount of work percentage wise)One hail storm and entire area's all put in claims......They pay for it(but it doesnt ''feel'' like they did.
Id be interested newfoundlander-what did your quote incl?did they give you a break down?


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Here it is: Some being obvious 

Remove shingles from roof 
Install ice & water shield to bottom edge and valleys
Install new plumbing stack flashing
Intall new valleys
Install new roof vents (added 3 more vents to existing 4)
install aluminum ever starter
Install Lifetime Timberline (Architectural) shingles
Replace any rotted or damaged wood
install 15lb tar paper
Complete cleanup of property


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Sounds like you made out good newfoundler.Not knowing how many squares your roof is but a one story ranch house about 1300 hundred square ft i would ''guess'' is around the 5k mark.
Did they hoist the shingles on the roof?
Did they have driveway/trailer access for throwing the old shingles from roof?
How steep is your roof(can you walk it?)
I've heard roofing prices can be double in toronto but what your somewhat explianing it doesn't sound like it(unless kingston is ''rural")
Timberline shingles are very good quality----makes a big difference hey!


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

donald said:


> Sounds like you made out good newfoundler.Not knowing how many squares your roof is but a one story ranch house about 1300 hundred square ft i would ''guess'' is around the 5k mark.
> Did they hoist the shingles on the roof? They used a machine/truck lift to do this.
> Did they have driveway/trailer access for throwing the old shingles from roof? Yes
> How steep is your roof(can you walk it?) You can easily walk it not steep at all.
> ...


 Good to know about the shingles.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Danger. In our area, a few years ago, there was a crew going through the neighbourhood. They provided reasonable-low quotes. They wrote up the business and took a fifty percent deposit. After a month or so of doing this, they disappeared. With the cash of course. We only pay on completion. Many of the fly by nighters need 50 percent down because they do not have the supplier credit to get the materials. This is a big red flag.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

You have to remember that of most of the trades, roofing really requires the least skill, not many hurdles to starting a roofing company.

Ideally its good to have a buddy thats competent at it and do it together (unless the pitch on your roof is crazy steep)
that way it costs you the price of shingles and beer. Its good to arrange for the shingles to be delivered with a lift truck that can put them on the roof for you.

One thing you check with contractor is that he follows the legal requirements in terms of fall protection - last thing you want is a worker falling off your roof.


If he is wearing his safety gear you know he follows the rules and is diligent - IMO.

Pay in cash.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

It doesn't matter but speaking with experience,there are many hurdles to starting a roofing company.(any company for that matter)The trade it self isn't a difficult skill to learn but there is still a lot you need to know(it doesn't take much for water to find a weak spot/issue)
Business is business-from owning a restaurant to a flower shop to a roofing company.Sales/employees/payroll/quotes/suppliers/safety/dealing with the public/competing against other roofing companies/money management/deadlines/defected materials/warranty issues/weather delays/time management etc ect.....
There is starting costs-tools/one-ton/trailer/half-ton/advertising/establishing credit with banks and suppliers,i find your comment a little ignorant.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone, but I was referring to the trade not being a difficult skill to learn and you have agreed with that. Of course running a successful business takes some skill and knowledge, but its the fly by night guys you have to worry about. And the hurdles to starting up a fly by night roofing business are not that high. 










donald said:


> It doesn't matter but speaking with experience,there are many hurdles to starting a roofing company.(any company for that matter)The trade it self isn't a difficult skill to learn but there is still a lot you need to know(it doesn't take much for water to find a weak spot/issue)
> Business is business-from owning a restaurant to a flower shop to a roofing company.Sales/employees/payroll/quotes/suppliers/safety/dealing with the public/competing against other roofing companies/money management/deadlines/defected materials/warranty issues/weather delays/time management etc ect.....
> There is starting costs-tools/one-ton/trailer/half-ton/advertising/establishing credit with banks and suppliers,i find your comment a little ignorant.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I do my own roofing, much cheaper if you have the time and a few tools. Got a few friends to help with the house, shingles delivered on roof and completed the next day. I did my garage almost completely by myself (friend stopped by for a couple of hours) in one day as well. Renting a roofing nailer makes things go very fast.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Yep, not a difficult skill to learn. Most of my experience has been with sheds and other outbuildings. Will be building a cottage in the next few years, and will probably shell out for a strong metal roof. Will likely hire a professional for that.


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## LifeInsuranceCanada.com (Aug 20, 2012)

Curiously, the house I grew up in was a century home with a steel roof. I don't get the 50 year lifespan they quote today - the metal roof on the house I'm pretty sure was 100 years old. We had to tar it every once in a while, but other than that, as far as I know it was permanent. Different type of shingles though, great big square metal shingles with a pattern embedded in them if I recall (maybe not, it's been 30 years). 

Unbelievably, someone in the meantime has stripped the metal roof and replaced it with shingles. I don't get it, but hey, it's not my house anymore .


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

There are a few ''cons'' to metal(depending on preference though)
Cost-double,if not double and a half
limited styles and limited color
"commercial'' look(can look cold and in most cases does not tie into a the exterior of the rest of the house,shingles are more ''warm''
Unsightly roof guards now need to be installed(snow and ice sliding ect
Depending if the roof is not insulated and strapped right noise can be a problem
any normal maintenance that needs to be done from time to time(say through cleaning ect forget about it(slippery and dangerous
Most roofs don't lend themselfs to metal(low pitch)only steep roofs look good and make sense(m.o)
The washers and fasteners deteriorate quickly and can cause unsightly rust stains(that bleeds through the color-they often need to be replaced.
Most people like to stick to the norm(which is shingles)
fiberglass shingle now last 25+ yrs(the technology is way better)
Speaking of shingles ive been eyeing owens corning,for stock purchase.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Most people re-roof existing homes(and ''most'' when faced with either a 6k roof(shingles)and a 15k metal choose 6k because they would rather spend the difference in things that matter more(kitchen/bathrooms/exterior ect ect.
Women are than main decision makers and speaking of experience many don't want it(i have meet few female homeowner's that won't metal or want to pay for it.All mass builder's and new inventory being built the decision for shingles are made for you prior by builders/developer's(everybody and i mean everybody would rather work a budget and rather have caeser stone/granite counter tops or hardwood ect and cut back on a roof-know body cares about a roof(only when its old or leaking)
You will never be complimented on a roof(nobody looks at them)


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Hawkdog-your last sentence ''pay in cash'' that is exactly what you should not want!!!!!!That is the fly by nights(you and them don't want to let the cra know right?)The companies worth it do not operate under the table
I just find it funny.....


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## P_I (Dec 2, 2011)

Drifting slightly off-topic. My parents have a Muskoka area cottage with a flat roofed boathouse. The boathouse was built in the late '60s or early '70s. It is built on wood cribs on a somewhat silty bottom, so there is annual "settling" that plays havoc with the pitch of the roof. In the past the roofing material used was asphalt roll roofing. It has been re-roofed a number of times over the lifetime, each time the material seems to last fewer years. Replacement is required again this year. 

Based on input from a local building supply company, we're considering using a self-adhering membrane (two-ply) system, specifically Resisto HR Cap Sheet Membrane. There are other similar products from IKO and Bakor. The selection of the Resisto product was mostly based on colour availability -- the cottage owner specifically likes the forest green colour that has always been on the roof, the boathouse roof is prominently visible from the cottage.

Any product feedback and/or installation advise would be most appreciated. It is looking like either a May long-weekend or Father's Day weekend DIY job.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

donald said:


> Hawkdog-your last sentence ''pay in cash'' that is exactly what you should not want!!!!!!That is the fly by nights(you and them don't want to let the cra know right?)The companies worth it do not operate under the table
> I just find it funny.....


Well in my experience with contractors (electricians, plumbers) i have used, most are referred to me by family members or friends, if you pay in cash you get a discount. 
so it might be funny to you but its a being frugal thread. 

I have even traded moose meat for some carpentry work.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

slightly off topic but on the same note:

when you deal with a company to do a job, do you have to tip the men/contractors they send out to do the job?


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

Hawkdog said:


> Well in my experience with contractors (electricians, plumbers) i have used, most are referred to me by family members or friends, if you pay in cash you get a discount.
> so it might be funny to you but its a being frugal thread.
> 
> I have even traded moose meat for some carpentry work.


Just make sure you have that invoice first before handing over cash with a receipt proving that you've paid them.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i'd never pay electricians, plumbers or roofers in cash.

i want their official bills. It's the only way to hold them accountable if the work turns out to be unsatisfactory or - worse - defective.

what's your $5000-all-cash roofer going to say when he offloads a large part of your old roof into the neighbour's side yard & the neighbour complains? johnny i hardly knew ye. What'll he say when the skylight leaks like a sieve at the next rainstorm? johnny i hardly knew ye. When the shingles go bald in 3 years? johnny i hardly ...


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Good points, especially if you don't have any experience with the contractor and hired off craigs list. But if its the plumber or electrician your family has used for ten years...................



humble_pie said:


> i'd never pay electricians, plumbers or roofers in cash.
> 
> i want their official bills. It's the only way to hold them accountable if the work turns out to be unsatisfactory or - worse - defective.
> 
> ...


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

rookie said:


> slightly off topic but on the same note:
> 
> when you deal with a company to do a job, do you have to tip the men/contractors they send out to do the job?


I would say no.

One thing i have done is offer to clean up at the end of the day - not their tools - but say sawdust or drywall dust - might save them an hour and you don't have to pay them for it.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Fair enough.If your lucky to have a close family friend in trades that you can barter with than that is a feather in your cap.Being a public forum i would advise to stay away from cash contractors as a rule for obvious reasons(the my brother's friends nephew that does side work(jack of all trades) is the guy i often follow 3 yrs later fixing leaks and replacing celing drywall,You run the risks as humble has outlined.
There a 2 camps of people when looking for: service oriented businesses-those that like dealing with reputable businesses,businesses that are licensed,safety certified,have warranty,support the economy,pay taxes ect ect
And the latter that prefer the ''under-ground'' economy,that is ripe with fraud ect.Cbc market place/mike homes ect(and countless other news media)has showcased what happens often with ''cash'' contractor.
A lot of people like the security and paper trial/legal action/protection they get(and piece of mind)hiring highly visable/bbb certified/registered business ect-where they have recourse if something should go wrong.

Tipping contractors is not common practice---though a lot of people will leave out cold drinks or offer use of the bathroom ect which is nice!


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Maybe this forum should have a section with advice on certain topics like contractors or real estate agents - that way people could go there instead of having to search and review threads. Sort of a discussion summary. Just a thought. Lots of good points in this discussion.

I should have expanded on my pay in cash comment, yours and Humble's points are very valid. You don't want to pay a contractor you don't know or haven't had experience with cash you could get burned. You also have to watch the certified contractor doesn't overcharge you for extra services as well, similar to a garage fleecing someone who knows nothing about cars.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

You should not have any ''surprises".Certified contractor will give you a detailed quote spelling out everything(You can get a accurate market price range for the job while in the initial process by attaining several other quotes from other companies)For peace of mind schedule said job with a day off so you can observe what is happening the day work is being preformed.
Second,when in the quoting phase ask every question and bring up any problem that might be a ''overcharge item",in the quoting phase companies are trying to win your business and contrary to popular belief there are a lot of honest/fair contractors out there,often they will even do thing that are not part of the ''job'' for free(taking garbage,cutting a tree,fixing a leaky down spout or using the crew to move something heavy ect ect.
Quite a number of my clients become a ''friend'' after the job(have a couple beers together after the job or/and staying in touch afterwards.

Somewhat funny hawkdog(i read in your profile you are a safety rep)our industry has been heavily targeted by the government of late(pushing cor certification and have to have detailed paper work on all job,this is new for residential,we have at least 12 new safety rep in my province,the government has also used media to promote safe work)In turn this drives up the price(we can and they do fine companies and shut down work sites for minor safety infraction,with stiff penalties)How else are they going to pay for the guys with the clip broads lol(I can't stand it)I already pay large workers comp and insurance and now all these extra costs associated safety(example i can be fined for not have hard hats on on a roof top with no construction above me or forgetting a fir extinguisher because my tool might start a house fire ect)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hawk somehow i can't believe it matters if a roofing customer lives in a town so small that it's closed up tighter than a sicilian mafiosa family. Perhaps i'm wrong, but i can't believe that such a town would hold its collective gossiping breath over stories about a bad cash-only roofing job.

if anything, i believe folks might laugh at a home owner who'd been dumb enough to shell out several grand in cash for an elaborate construction procedure like a roof that should come covered with a 10, 15 or even a 20-year guarantee.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I do not think that certification means anything in this trade, nor do I think an invoice is assurance of follow-up. After all, what good is an invoice, or a warranty for that matter, for someone who actually operates under a different numbered company each year and can simply walk. 

A number of years ago we had a roof replaced. I was travelling most weeks so my spouse had the pleasure of dealing with three quotes. We had a large roof that already had 2 layers of shingles. The absolute highest quote by far came from a long established 'certified' roofer in our community. Not only were they they highest quote by far, their plan was not to remove the existing shingles nor did it include new vent flashings and additonal air vents in the roof. They told my wife that they would 'snip off the curly bits' on the existing shingles prior to installing the new ones. They also advised her to sign that day otherwise they would not be able to do the job for another two months (we lived in Vancouver lower mainland at the time and rainy season was approaching).

My neighbour had a roof installed by Sears. What a mess. Poor workmanship, messy job, expensive, and it was like pulling teeth for them to get Sears to fix all of the issues. 

We were fortunate, we found a father/son/grandfather team who had been in the business for years and who were recommended by people we actually knew (as a opposed to a phoney reference from the guys brother in law or best friend). We paid only on completion, great cleanup, and they followed up immediately a few years later when we had a potential problem.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Donald, if you live in Ontario I can sympathise with your safety woes as they are overtop, its the same with our industry. Part my of job is getting our company COR.
I am sure you are smart enough to realize that those extra costs are nothing compared to one bad compo claim or a death on your job site. 
And I know for a fact there are honest/fair contractors out there but its naive to think every certified contractor is as "honest as you say you are"

In your case I sense bitterness, must have hit a nerve with the cash contractor as I am sure they lowball and take work from you.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Well Humble your way out to left field with your sicilian comment, and most certainly extremely naive about life in a small town to the point of being ignorant.

And I wouldn't call putting shingles on a roof an elaborate construction procedure, constructing a multi pitch roof is an elaborate procedure. If you go back and read a few posts on this thread you will see its a pretty common DIY project.



humble_pie said:


> hawk somehow i can't believe it matters if a roofing customer lives in a town so small that it's closed up tighter than a sicilian mafiosa family. Perhaps i'm wrong, but i can't believe that such a town would hold its collective gossiping breath over stories about a bad cash-only roofing job.
> 
> if anything, i believe folks might laugh at a home owner who'd been dumb enough to shell out several grand in cash for an elaborate construction procedure like a roof that should come covered with a 10, 15 or even a 20-year guarantee.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mister love-to-pack-a-pistol, do you have more of these under-the-table frugality tips for us?

tips like the balmoral penny gold stock tout, for example. BAR has plunged 50% since your recent pump ...
.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Hawk,i'm not bitter(Truck & ladder guys are not pricing the same work as me)We do insurance work and have builder contracts(business to business relations)and of the private work we do(my network/referrals)are people who want everything above board(that is how you do business and grow/build a reputation and gain in the market not to mention retain employees who need ''legal'' work and are paid fair market wages)
We are a small company but we have already built(8 yrs in business)a solid reputation and growing(it's a family business)
You have to keep in mind that ''cash'' clients are of the same bread(as a rule)than ''cash'' contractors(both operate from the same short sighted)
Shingling is not difficult in theory or if you are re shingling a dinky garage or some lean to out building but trust me-roofing 3000 sq ft new builds(that are 1.2 million homes)or 3 story victorian character houses are NOT diy(you would be changing your man panties in 2 seconds flat i bet if i got you up on some of my sites or your legs would shake like trees in a windstorm)


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Donald, I am not disagreeing with you. Somehow you you have misunderstood my comment about the cash and this thread has got derailed. I have no doubt 3000 sq foot new buildings/million dollar homes are more difficult, but somehow i think that is getting away from the general theme of this thread. Actually you have totally blown it out of proportion.
Ever go into a car dealership and offer cash to get a discount? and get a receipt? Or see a store offer a discount for cash instead of a credit card?
You have totally jumped to the conclusion that I am promoting seeking an underthetable cash contractor. Like i said i should have expanded on my intial comment.
I have bartered and got discounts on contractor work with contractors i have used multiple times and built a relationship with, but no one should go and seek a cash contractor.
thanks for the laughs.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

forget to take you meds today Humble? 



humble_pie said:


> mister love-to-pack-a-pistol, do you have more of these under-the-table frugality tips for us?
> 
> tips like the balmoral penny gold stock tout, for example. BAR has plunged 50% since your recent pump ...
> .


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Hawkdog said:


> forget to take you meds today Humble?


another cheap crack from the gray-market specialist


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Hawkdog said:


> ... Somehow you you have misunderstood my comment about the cash and this thread has got derailed ... thanks for the laughs.



nobody misunderstands what you've said in cmf forum.

first you, a newcomer, pumped penny stocks that collapsed. Then you insulted rational doubters as "ignorant."

then you advocate dealing in gray construction markets while taking potshots at people who deal clean.

now you're bow hunting. There's a public backlash against bow hunting. 

arrows don't kill as clean as guns. Think of the wounded animals you managed to injure but they fled into the bush. A long, painful, bleeding, half-crazed death then ensued.

it's time, now, to tell us something nice about yourself.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Humble, all you have done is bash me on these boards, and I will not back down from your ignorant comments.
You have jumped into two different discussions and made completely ridiculous insinuations.
If you want to discuss bow hunting please start a new thread under the non financial section.



humble_pie said:


> nobody misunderstands what you've said in cmf forum.
> 
> first you, a newcomer, pumped penny stocks that collapsed. Then you insulted rational doubters as "ignorant."
> 
> ...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hawk i don't insinuate & it would be unlikely that anything i might say would be ignorant.

for a newcomer to this forum, your rep seems to be already a little bit tainted. This is not an insinuation.

it's difficult to seek dignity after your disastrous balmoral pump job. This is not an insinuation.

however repair might have been possible if you'd had something helpful to offer. This is not an insinuation. 

instead you began insulting competent trades professionals & touting under-the-table construction deals. This is not an insinuation.

announcing how you'd love to pack handguns is an orange alarm across canada. This is not an insinuation.

like i said, it's time for you to offer something positive & helpful to the forum. This is not an insinuation.


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## Woody (Oct 30, 2012)

Hawkdog said:


> I would say no.
> 
> One thing i have done is offer to clean up at the end of the day - not their tools - but say sawdust or drywall dust - might save them an hour and you don't have to pay them for it.


Most of the work like this done where I'm from, a *very* small town is done by friends and family members anyway. Regardless, what I would do is ensure there was cold beverages consistently available (beer after the work is done) as well as a full meal.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

^ but for after the job. You don't want anyone falling off the roof. LOL.

Personally I would need receipts. First to have some ability for recourse if needed. Second, for income taxes in regards to income properties. 

Third, if everyone paid their fair share of taxes, I would not have to pay so much in taxes. I hate restaurants that offer a separate price for $, and I also hate restaurants that automatically add a certain % for the tip....but this thread isn't about taxes or restaurants.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

you forgot to mention bow hunting. I'm still waiting for you to start the thread.

I won't be bullied by you.




humble_pie said:


> hawk i don't insinuate & it would be unlikely that anything i might say would be ignorant.
> 
> for a newcomer to this forum, your rep seems to be already a little bit tainted. This is not an insinuation.
> 
> ...


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

great frickin advice. this is what community is about and why big cities are so brutal to live in!!!



hystat said:


> in most neighbourhoods, the houses were all built around the same time so the roofs all need replacement around the same time. You can watch who else is getting a roof and knock on a few doors.
> I'll bet in a town like Kingston, the table of old guys at Tim Horton's on a weekday morning would also be able to tell you who does the good work. Expect to wait 3 months for the best.
> Your estimate of cost is probably about right.


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