# Snowbirding in Canada



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Many of us retirees who have enjoyed heading South for part of the winter, are having to think about alternatives. Even if borders are open by January, we are not sure we want to go there. In fact none of our friends have booked for the coming winter.

So what are the alternatives. Seems like staying in Canada may be the only real choice. 

For those who just go South for the sun and beaches, no options. 
For those who can still enjoy winter sports, no problem. At one time, we were avid skiers, so I guess that could be an option, even although we are a bit past that. But will ski resorts be open?

How about golf? I understand that courses try to stay open in some parts of BC. I have been in Victoria in December/January and people were playing, but it was wet. Suppose we decided to make a 1 month trip to BC in Feb-March. Would that make sense? And would it be better at coast or inland?

Otherwise, we will need some good books 

PS: Can imagine what this will do to tourism in Carolinas, Florida and other US tourist destinations.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

agent99 said:


> ...
> How about golf? I understand that courses try to stay open in some parts of BC. I have been in Victoria in December/January and people were playing, but it was wet. Suppose we decided to make a 1 month trip to BC in Feb-March. Would that make sense? And would it be better at coast or inland?
> ...


My vote would be southern Vancouver Island at that time. Likely drier in the Okanagan, but colder.

I used to work with a guy who never missed a weekly round of gold all year, in Richmond. He would go with friends and play early on a weekday usually, turning up at the office after lunch. Sometimes in winter he would say that the way to track where your ball lands is to "look for the splash".


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks - Good info!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I am not a golfer but mid-March would be about as early as it can be in the Central Okanagan. Select courses in the South Okanagan, e.g. Osoyoos, would be earlier. This link might be a start Golf Osoyoos, South Okanagan Golf Courses Agree though that temperatures could be rather chilly. Better check that out first.

Added later: We will not be going anywhere by plane for probably a good 12 months, and only if there is a vaccination by that time. As much as we don't like 'valley cloud' from November through February, or even March, the winter is really pretty short here in the Central Okanagan. Yard waste pickup does not end until Dec 31 and I've been putting in leaves right up to Xmas, and then yard waste pickup starts March 1 again and I have a full bin to put out in mid-March. Two-three months of winter isn't all that bad...... plus if we need to get out of the valley cloud, we can go up to the ski hills above the clouds for a day trip. It is a first world problem....


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I'm an avid golfer but really don't miss it very much in winter. I don't take my clubs when we go south.

Our plans this year if we can't go away are too finish a new basement bathroom (rough in is done), and maybe redo the kitchen. Since I'm doing it myself that will keep me busy.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We might have to buy snow tires. First winter in 9 that we expect to stay home.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I might be staying home as well, but not by choice....looks like my boat will take a direct hit by hurricane Douglas on Oahu tomorrow night and I'll unwillingly change into a landlubber.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm just dreaming, but it would be really great if Hawaii could open up some kind of special travel for Canadians.

The logic goes like this. Hawaii has managed their cases well, and so has Canada. I'll bet that Hawaii is more comfortable with Canadian tourists than mainland American tourists.

The islands absolutely need tourism, and Canadians would be an ideal fit given the circumstances. Again I'm just dreaming here, reality is that mainland Americans are citizens and can therefore go to Hawaii before Canadians can, but it would be nice.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Eastern Canada but then I don't think the usually very friendly Maritimers are happy to see an influx of Ontarians or Westerners anytime soon, particularly when Quebecers took a head-start on it ... with C19.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> Eastern Canada but then I don't think the usually very friendly Maritimers are happy to see an influx of Ontarians or Westerners anytime soon, particularly when Quebecers took a head-start on it ... with C19.


Seriously? The Eastern provinces are a good place to spend winter? I would violently disagree with you given my past experiences living/working in the Maritimes.

@James. Hawaii does not control the federal gov'ts INS mandate to block entry (as is currently the case), but I tend to agree Hawaii could feel rather comfortable with us Canucks...maybe. Our covid cases are heading back up.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I'm just dreaming, but it would be really great if Hawaii could open up some kind of special travel for Canadians.
> 
> The logic goes like this. Hawaii has managed their cases well, and so has Canada. I'll bet that Hawaii is more comfortable with Canadian tourists than mainland American tourists.
> 
> The islands absolutely need tourism, and Canadians would be an ideal fit given the circumstances. Again I'm just dreaming here, reality is that mainland Americans are citizens and can therefore go to Hawaii before Canadians can, but it would be nice.


I think it is time to re-evalute the idea of convincing Turks and Caicos to join Canada. Would give a nice destination for snowbirds and give a tourism boost.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

bgc_fan said:


> I think it is time to re-evalute the idea of convincing Turks and Caicos to join Canada. Would give a nice destination for snowbirds and give a tourism boost.


We would be stretched to provide maritime defense with our sputtering zodiacs and pellet guns. We can't even muster enough Coast Guard ships to patrol our own coasts.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Snowbirding in Florida or Arizona etc. is not likely to be viable this winter. Besides the border possibly still being closed, insurance for Covid-19 is not likely to be available either. Does anyone want to risk hospital bills in the USA in that case?

As for an alternative in Canada, that I think is a case of 'grasping at straws'. I would suggest thinking of a completely different way to spend the time at home.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

ian said:


> We might have to buy snow tires. First winter in 9 that we expect to stay home.


We get an insurance discount for snow tires. Don't have them on car we drive South. We do see some snow before we leave and perhaps on the way South. But I don't want to drive on snowtires for 3 months when in non-snow zone. We do have them on one car, so we may just use that on snowy days, if we stay home. 

I imagine we could fly to Cayman - No affordable golf there, but climate is good. Would have to bike/walk or ?? But have to stay out of sun as much as possible these days.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> Seriously? The Eastern provinces are a good place to spend winter? I would violently disagree with you given my past experiences living/working in the Maritimes.
> ...


 ... oops, I missed the "Snowbirding" part ... you're right as wouldn't want to spend December over at jargey3K's place unless you're into winter-sports. Autumning in the Maritimes wouldn't be too bad though.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

All we need is a deeper relationship to Cuba than we already have. Canadian banks, businesses, investment, trade.

_Cuba is the third most popular overseas destination for Canadians (after the United States and Mexico) and Canada is Cuba’s largest source of tourists, with over one million Canadians visiting annually (more than 40 per cent of all visitors to Cuba). _

Cuba has an excellent health care system, but lack in funding for medical equipment and drugs. Canada could supply that.

Easy travel and immigration between the two countries shouldn't be difficult to develop.







Canada and Cuba







www.canadainternational.gc.ca


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Thailand and Vietnam are both options for us at this time-albeit remote. This could of course change. Not counting on it. This year we need to be home by mid Feb, assuming a two week isolation period. Have some March commitments. Normally we would not return home until late March.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We want to go to a warm place where the beaches and restaurants are open with minimum risk. We will wait and see. To get out of the rain would be objective #1. Mayne Island is in the rain shadow of the Olympics so officially desert but not exactly beach weather.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

But the goats taste better on Saturna.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> We would be stretched to provide maritime defense with our sputtering zodiacs and pellet guns. We can't even muster enough Coast Guard ships to patrol our own coasts.


You probably aren't aware that we usually task a ship to the caribbeans for drug interdiction operations on a regular basis. Having a port at Turks and Caicos would make support easier. It isn't like the Royal Navy is patrolling those waters on a regular basis. Besides, I am sure we could easily find people who would love to be posted there for costal defense duties.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

ian said:


> Thailand and Vietnam are both options for us at this time-albeit remote.


 Those two along with Cuba and Cayman and most others require air travel. Do we want to do that? Some would require transfers, others not. None of the destinations are likely as safe as Canada. Any that are, may not want us if current minor surge continues. 

Looks like some good books and day trips for skiing or just walks in our local woods and conservation areas may be all we can do. At least the winter weather in Ontario isn't wet.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Anything requiring air travel is simply NOT remotely acceptable any time soon. Once I am vaccinated sometime in 2021 and masks are not required.....then possibly.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> Anything requiring air travel is simply NOT remotely acceptable any time soon. Once I am vaccinated sometime in 2021 and masks are not required.....then possibly.


I agree. I'm in a lower risk group, and even I refuse to fly these days. I did take a few flights back when the flights were pretty empty (and had middle seats unoccupied) but now, the airlines insist on filling the planes again and there isn't enough distance.

Several disease experts have recommended not flying under current circumstances. See this post in the Air Canada thread.

I'm taking that advice and don't intend to fly anywhere for a while. If the airlines smarten up and make the middle seats empty again, then I will fly domestically (direct only).


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> All we need is a deeper relationship to Cuba than we already have. Canadian banks, businesses, investment, trade.


Cuba is a communist country. We won't support communism.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Canadians go to Cuba because it's CHEAP. The morality of supporting a communist country does not enter into their decision, they have no moral compass. 

The Turks and Caicos actually first talked about closer relations with Canada in the 1970s with the greatest support for the idea being in the 1980s. How desirable that would be for Canada remains debatable.








Proposed Canadian annexation of the Turks and Caicos Islands - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





For those suggesting it, I would first ask, have you been there? From my own personal experience I would have to say it would be totally impractical as a 'major' snowbirding location for Canadians. With a land mass of only 948 sq. km. of which much is not really habitable and with a water supply that is dependent on 'making' water, these islands are probably already at their maximum limit of how much tourism they can take in. They certainly could not take an influx of even say 10,000 'snowbirds'. 

Snowbirds by the way are only estimated to be between 300-375,000 Canadians. That's 1% of our population. Hardly worth bothering about catering to.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm open to air travel...I will snow bird this year should the border reopen.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> All we need is a deeper relationship to Cuba than we already have. Canadian banks, businesses, investment, trade.


This is a great idea, actually. I could see this working well, and strengthening the Canada/Cuba relationship is mutually beneficial to both countries.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

james4beach said:


> This is a great idea, actually. I could see this working well, and strengthening the Canada/Cuba relationship is mutually beneficial to both countries.


Tut tut james. Where is your moral compass? Needing to be swung? Needing an upgrade to moral gps perhaps?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Eder said:


> I'm open to air travel...I will snow bird this year should the border reopen.


Me too. Probably will be in SE Asia by Christmas. Damn the torpedoes.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> This is a great idea, actually. I could see this working well, and strengthening the Canada/Cuba relationship is mutually beneficial to both countries.


Cuba is a communist country. You'll support communism but not a free country like the US?

Your priorities are out of whack.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Canadians only like communist money when it comes from China.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Snowbirds by the way are only estimated to be between 300-375,000 Canadians. That's 1% of our population. Hardly worth bothering about catering to.


Source please? And assumptions.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Prairie Guy said:


> Cuba is a communist country.


So are Vietnam and China, both of which Canadians trade more with than Cuba. We even signed a big trade deal that includes Vietnam -- the CPTPP. If you're going to pooh pooh a country just because it is a commie dictatorship, better go after one Canada has major trade relationships with. You can start by chucking out your phone, computer and TV and most of your clothes.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well great news...Hawaii dodged a bullet by about 60 miles...no damage. Now they need to fill the resorts with frozen Canadians.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> Source please? And assumptions.







__





Spring... by the numbers


It's springtime! The first green shoots are poking up through the earth, and there are delicate flower buds on trees. Here are some facts on assorted topics related to spring.




www.statcan.gc.ca





Did you think it was a higher number kcowan? I also found this quote in a related article although not the direct quote itself by the CSA. "_The Canadian Snowbirds Association estimates that at least 350,000 Canadians spend from three to six months in Florida, while upwards of 100,000 more spend between one and three months in the state_."

While we all know what a 'snowbird' is, it doesn't mean that we all do it obviously. So it really isn't that big a market relatively speaking. It's only about 6% of even the retiree only market. So as a voter block, it is also not very significant. Bear in mind the only reason for Canada to do something that would be seen as a 'plus' to snowbirds would be if it got them votes. It is an economic negative for Canada to encourage snowbirding since it takes money out of the country.

Generally speaking, 'snowbirding' only appeals to a few people. In some socio-economic classes, it is actually a derogatory term. 'They snowbird in Florida.' Not the same cachet as, 'they winter in Antigua.' As for where Cuba lies, take a look at this list.








Caribbean Islands: Travel Cost Rankings by Country (2022) | Budget Your Trip


Here are the travel cost rankings of the countries in the Caribbean Islands, ordered from most expensive to least expensive. The travel prices for each country come from actual travelers, and are listed as per person, per day. Now you can find out which countries are the cheapest to visit, and...




www.budgetyourtrip.com





There is no good reason for Canada to look at doing anything to please snowbirds.
Like I said, Cuba appeals to some people because it's cheap.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes I thought it was larger. Take 350000 and add 100000 and then add all the people who take one and two week trips south, sometimes mutiple times between November and April. So who is going to ignore 500000+ people?

Anecdotally, the Covid crisis is taking a big toll on this group.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> Yes I thought it was larger. Take 350000 and add 100000 and then add all the people who take one and two week trips south, sometimes mutiple times between November and April. So who is going to ignore 500000+ people?
> 
> Anecdotally, the Covid crisis is taking a big toll on this group.


Even 500,000 potential voters aren't that big a deal kcowan. OK, enough to notice them but not enough to make policy decisions for.

What 'toll' is it taking on them compared to the toll it is taking on people who can't go to work if the virus is not kept under control? 'I own a trailer in a Florida RV park I won't be able to go to this winter. Woe is me.' Compared to, my employer may go out of business as a result of this virus. Woe is me.' I know which one I would have more sympathy for.

I think you are looking at it from a pretty narrow viewpoint if you are suggesting we sympathize with 'snowbirds' who may have their nose put out of joint. There are far more important groups of people to worry about.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

LTA I think you are again arguing against something that was never stated. Guaranteed to win that kind of argument...


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Here is a thought to consider for anyone who still thinks they are likely to 'snowbird' anywhere this coming winter.

The UK, lifted their quarantine on travellers from some EU countries including Spain. Now Spain has an upsurge in cases and the UK has re-imposed it's quarantine. Now there are currently 10s of thousands of Brits who have gone there on vacation and now face a 14 day quarantine when they return.









Coronavirus: UK brings back 14-day quarantine for Spain


The move means people returning from Spain will have to self-isolate, as part of coronavirus rules.



www.bbc.com





Being able to get somewhere at a given point in time may be possible but it means nothing in regards to being able to return without any inconvenience. Opening up travel to a 'safe' country may happen and just as easily 'unhappen'.

Also consider those Brits who have booked and PAID to go to Spain in the near future and now are faced with the flights being cancelled even if they were still willing to go and face a 14 day quarantine on their return. We know what Air Canada and Westjet are doing when they cancel flights. No refund.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> Here is a thought to consider for anyone who still thinks they are likely to 'snowbird' anywhere this coming winter.
> 
> The UK, lifted their quarantine on travellers from some EU countries including Spain. Now Spain has an upsurge in cases and the UK has re-imposed it's quarantine. Now there are currently 10s of thousands of Brits who have gone there on vacation and now face a 14 day quarantine when they return.
> 
> ...



This may be the norm to plan for if one decides to go anywhere upside of their province. i have been thinking about the 14 day quarantine in many areas since I still help my dad. We don’t plan to fly or drive out of the country anytime soon, but it could happen just driving over a provincial boarder. There are few places that will be ‘safe travel’

side note. I know West jet has started issuing refunds, some were from April though. My coldge had a trip to the US booked for the summer (booked last year). They just offered her a refund but preferred to offer a travel credit.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I thought this is an interesting Barbados recruitment tactic: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/barbados-tourism-canada-covid-19-1.5664283. 
Here's the actual site: Barbados Welcome Stamp - Work Remotely from Paradise

Given the fact that many people are able to telework, it wouldn't matter if you were in Ontario or in Turks and Caicos.

Some interesting WHO facts. I found it interesting that a Canadian company is managing the 2 hospitals: Turks and Caicos Islands


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> I thought this is an interesting Barbados recruitment tactic: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/barbados-tourism-canada-covid-19-1.5664283.
> Here's the actual site: Barbados Welcome Stamp - Work Remotely from Paradise
> 
> Given the fact that many people are able to telework, it wouldn't matter if you were in Ontario or in Turks and Caicos.
> ...


Now that's a smart move I would say bgc_fan. But why are you combining Barbados with the Turks and Caicos? They are not one and the same.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> Now that's a smart move I would say bgc_fan. But why are you combining Barbados with the Turks and Caicos? They are not one and the same.


No, I'm pointing out that one of the benefits of having Turks and Caicos join Canada is that you could have people move down and still remain in Canada, while benefiting from the weather.
The Barbados was just an example of a marketing ploy to get people to go. Besides, I think for Barbados it is only a special 12 month visa.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We would happily spend a few months in Cuba or Vietnam during the winter months. Both are communist but so what?

Turks and Caicos....do we really want to have another have not Province????


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

ian said:


> We would happily spend a few months in Cuba or Vietnam during the winter months. Both are communist but so what?


It's your right to support communism but if you think it's not a big deal then both your parents and your teachers failed in educating you.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

So...are you not buying any consumer electric products...most of which are made in China or Vietnam? Or buying clothing made in China, Vietnam, Cambodia and other such countries? Or shopping at Walmart?

Should Canada not be selling agricultural products to China or Cuba or others? Should we not be dealing with the Saudi's of the world?

My teachers did educate me....about world trade and the fact that no nation is an island. Trade is bilateral. That includes tourism. Canada depends on exports...not just to the US.

Or is is just about spending money in, selling to, or buying products from countries you approve of?

Have you actually traveled to any of those countries?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

We actively avoid buying goods made in China (it's hard to be 100% compliant but we're trying) and we won't travel to communist countries. We have also decided to no longer visit the US as long as the violent left is allowed to terrorize and destroy cities.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Do you think that China would buy our agricultural products, among other products, if we refused to buy anything from China? Or do you think they would secure those products from other nations that purchased products from them. Same with other countries....

It will be extremely difficult for you, if not impossible, not to buy consumer electronic products that are either made in this countries OR contain very large amounts of production material used to assemble those products in another country.

This is the real world.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I know it's hard and it's impossible to be even close to 100% successful but when there's a choice we opt out of Chinese made. Of course we are able to opt out of visiting communist countries.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> No, I'm pointing out that one of the benefits of having Turks and Caicos join Canada is that you could have people move down and still remain in Canada, while benefiting from the weather.
> The Barbados was just an example of a marketing ploy to get people to go. Besides, I think for Barbados it is only a special 12 month visa.


As I wrote earlier on this thread bgc_fan, the T&C cannot support a large iincrease in population. Whether people working from home or snowbirds, how many 10s of thousands do you think they could take? I don't know how many remote workers there might be but there are over 300,000 snowbirds. The T&C couldn't take any real portion of those kinds of numbers. So let's say they became part of Canada, it would be like saying, 'OK, everyone that can, go to PEI.' Then you would have the 290,000 they couldn't accommodate saying, 'hey what about me, what do you mean you're full up.' It's simply not practical at all bgc_fan.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The 500000+ part-time snowbirds would even overwhelm Victoria-Parksville-Comox Valley. But they could probably handle 100000 with a properly planned set of events.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

It seems that every thread on CMF, regardless of subject ends up being turned political. Hardly worth looking at this site lately.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

It has become pretty useless other than a confirmation that we all should have had vasectomies before 1980.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> As I wrote earlier on this thread bgc_fan, the T&C cannot support a large iincrease in population. Whether people working from home or snowbirds, how many 10s of thousands do you think they could take? I don't know how many remote workers there might be but there are over 300,000 snowbirds. The T&C couldn't take any real portion of those kinds of numbers. So let's say they became part of Canada, it would be like saying, 'OK, everyone that can, go to PEI.' Then you would have the 290,000 they couldn't accommodate saying, 'hey what about me, what do you mean you're full up.' It's simply not practical at all bgc_fan.


Quite small minded aren't you? No, it wouldn't support an instantaneous increase in population. And obviously the capacity would be limited by available accommodations which is something that doesn't appear overnight. 

The whole point of planning is that you can develop to reach those goals. You don't expect to dump 300k snowbirds all at once. What you are suggesting is nonsense, essentially a weak straw man.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> Quite small minded aren't you? No, it wouldn't support an instantaneous increase in population. And obviously the capacity would be limited by available accommodations which is something that doesn't appear overnight.
> 
> The whole point of planning is that you can develop to reach those goals. You don't expect to dump 300k snowbirds all at once. What you are suggesting is nonsense, essentially a weak straw man.


Have you been to the T&C bgc_fan? Yes or no?

As an alternative for Canadian snowbirds, it's just not a viable solution. Don't forget that was the original suggestion here. 'Hey, let's get the T&C to be a province and we can all snowbird there.' 

Even their cost of living is higher than the USA. Almost everything has to come by ship from Miami. The last time I was there, the local supermarket got their delivery once a week by ship and many items were sold out within a couple of days. That's it, wait till next week.








Providenciales Grocery Stores and Supermarkets


Learn about the grocery stores and supermarkets on Providenciales. Information on the best prices, the local food selection, locations, and more.




www.visittci.com





Want to buy a refrigerator or sofa? Order from Miami. If your fridge breaks down, you wait. Then there is the added cost of course of having to have it shipped. Does this sound like the kind of thing the average Canadian snowbird will be willing to pay for and put up with? 

You rent a condo for the winter and one day the fridge breaks down. Island answer, 'no problem mon, soon come.' ie. in about a month.

Some things sound good if you say them fast enough but when you dig down for the details of just what it would really mean, the idea doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> Have you been to the T&C bgc_fan? Yes or no?
> 
> As an alternative for Canadian snowbirds, it's just not a viable solution. Don't forget that was the original suggestion here. 'Hey, let's get the T&C to be a province and we can all snowbird there.'
> 
> Even their cost of living is higher than the USA. Almost everything has to come by ship from Miami. The last time I was there, the local supermarket got their delivery once a week by ship and many items were sold out within a couple of days. That's it, wait till next week.


No, I haven't.

And no, I did not say that. The closest I said was the following:



bgc_fan said:


> Would give a nice destination for snowbirds and give a tourism boost.


Basically, I suggested that it would provide an option. You are twisting it as I suggested that ALL snowbirds will go there. In other words, you are bringing arguments to ad absurdum.

Again, you are pretty small minded. The idea of actually bringing T&C into Canada is to provide resources to build it up to support a higher capacity which would also in turn bring down certain costs. Being an island means that transport can be limited, but if there is increased traffic, an increased population base and development of undeveloped areas, costs could be contained.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> No, I haven't.
> 
> And no, I did not say that. The closest I said was the following:
> 
> ...


Since you have not been there bgc_fan I would have to say that I expect you to have limited knowledge of the situation and I mean no offense by that.

Bringing the T&C into Canada in any way would I assure you simply add a drain on Canada financially. It is available now for anyone to visit (obviously ignoring Covid for the moment). I am not being 'small minded' as you suggest, I am being realistic about the realities of what the T&C could offer to Canadians if it were to become part of Canada.

They have a population of around 55,000 people right now and a tourism infrastructure that is probably about as big as they will ever be able to handle in a land area that is only 2/3rds the size of the city of Toronto, not the GTA, just the City itself. It's TINY. 

I am not the one saying all snowbirds would go there, it is others who have said that if it were part of Canada, our snowbirds could go there. I am saying that if we did take it on, not even a reasonable portion of our snowbirds could go there and the cost PER snowbird to have the option available would simply not be viable.

For example, Canadians use an average of 329 litres of water per PERSON per day. Read this report on the water supply of the T&C.




__





StackPath






www.estormwater.com





In there you will see the author talking about 50 litres per person per day. Have you ever been somewhere where the water used to flush your toilet is separate from your drinking water and that water used to flush smells of sulphur? It stinks in other words. But that is done in the T&C. Can you imagine the average Canadian snowbird having to learn to make do with 50 litres when they are used to 329 and having to use non-potable and perhaps stinking watet to flush their toilets? 

Then there is sewerage, they have NONE. Wanna figure out the cost to change that? They use septic systems. How much more of that do you suppose you could 'build up over time'?

I could go on bgc_fan but the point is that if you know anything about the T&C and look at the details of what would be involved, it doesn't add up to a good idea for Canada to take on responsibility for them.

Another big factor in my opinion is that the T&C have already been pretty much ruined by tourism since my first visit maybe 30 years ago. They are already too built up for tourism from an environmental impact point of view.


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