# 1 minute of silence



## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

My heart and prayers go to the parents of the children that were killed today in the U.S
May G'd be with their souls and may they rest in peace.
If anybody here can dedicate one minute of their lives and be in silence , please do so.
You will feel and think about so many things that go in ur mind in light speed.
I thank G'D everyday for all the blessings and challenges he provides to me my family and my extended family in Israel.
what happened today is a real tragedy.
Again may G'd be present at all times with the parents of the deceased children.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

This was a tragedy, but what about the other people who die senseless deaths every day? 30 people die from gun related deaths every day in the US, including innocent children. The fact that it doesn't happen in one place at one time by one person does not make those deaths less tragic.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> This was a tragedy, but what about the other people who die senseless deaths every day? 30 people die from gun related deaths every day in the US, including innocent children. The fact that it doesn't happen in one place at one time by one person does not make those deaths less tragic.


You always seem to come up with a counter argument, and statistics to back it up, Andrew.:biggrin:

Yes, people die senseless deaths everyday, some by accident, some by somebody's senseless act, and some even by their own hand as in suicide. Some are preventable and some are not, but nevertheless each death is still tragic.
But what makes this one even more heinous and tragic..is that a gunman broke into a school and mowed down
an entire classroom and most of the teachers...a primary school is supposed to be a safe haven for little children.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's telegenic. I'm annoyed when everyone gets upset about incidents like this and cluck they tongues and say "what a shame" but don't do anything to prevent the inevitable next in incident. Also when people make a big deal out of one incident, yet ignore the wider bloodbath that happens every day. It's because this particular tragedy is telegenic. First world problems. Who cares about the brown kids in poor parts of the world who get limbs blown off by landmines or unexploded munitions. 

That's where I'm coming from. Displays of conspicuous dismay about selected tragedies...


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

^ Great post.

It's the same with Facebook. I don't even need to watch the news anymore. Everyone's posting about a shooting, and now CFM has caught the bug...

Just like the whole Amanda Todd nonsense that plagued every social/media outlet for a week.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

KaeJS said:


> ^ Great post.
> 
> It's the same with Facebook. I don't even need to watch the news anymore. Everyone's posting about a shooting, and now CFM has caught the bug...
> 
> Just like the whole Amanda Todd nonsense that plagued every social/media outlet for a week.





andrewf said:


> This was a tragedy, but what about the other people who die senseless deaths every day? 30 people die from gun related deaths every day in the US, including innocent children. The fact that it doesn't happen in one place at one time by one person does not make those deaths less tragic.




It seems that both of you are very opinionated.
i will tell you both the following.
i pray every single day for a very long time.
I just posted the minute of silence for this particular event because i felt compelled to do so
FWIW andrew and Kjs I also pray for brown , yellow ,black , white and all other people that are killed senselessly every day in the world.
Have u prayed today for anyone today or any day as u u mentioned above?
have you ever seen anybody getting killed?
i am sure u never killed anybody right?
well , I have seen it endless times.
it is not like in the movies that you guys watch .
It is real people and I am 100% sure that you have no idea what killing is about.
not at all.
i also hope that you both never see , witness or participate in such acts.


by the way i have never seen a president shed a tear on television.
have you?
yesterday I did.
were they real tears?
I strongly believe they were.

i am not going to make a controversial post out of this.
i will leave it here.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

thenegotiator said:


> by the way i have never seen a president shed a tear on television.
> have you?
> yesterday I did.
> were they real tears?
> I strongly believe they were.


As has been said many times ....."Once you can fake sincerity, you've got it made".


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Nemo2 said:


> As has been said many times ....."Once you can fake sincerity, you've got it made".


Nemo
i have seen "fake"
yesterday was not fake.
that man cried from his heart.
I lived through fake.
another topic hard to discuss right?
let us not argue about it.
you may have a different opinion than I do.
nothing wrong with that.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I am very very sad for the dead children and their families. I wish there was something effective I could do to help them and prevent this and other types of violence. So far I haven't come up with anything.  so a moment of silence will have to do.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> ^ Great post.
> 
> It's the same with Facebook. I don't even need to watch the news anymore. Everyone's posting about a shooting, and now CFM has caught the bug...
> 
> Just like the whole Amanda Todd nonsense that plagued every social/media outlet for a week.



Your the person who would not give the money you find back to the owner if you knew who it was so I suppose it makes sense that you would say this. 

I agree that we should be more concerned about all shooting and not just this one. This one however cost many young children their lives and it is next door to Canada so it really hits home for many people. 

The Amanda Todd experience was terrible and I would think her parents would agree that if bullying was taken more seriously that maybe she would be alive today. This however was not nonsense and she has helped focus many people to the issue of bullying through her messages so good on her for that.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Dog
Is there a +10?
If there is not I just created it.

by the way this does not look like Facebook nor CMF.
http://www.aljazeera.com/
http://www.jpost.com/

i am sure it is going around the globe.

the person you have mentioned should go out more.
i also think that he should also have some respect for the souls and the families for the very young children that were shot multiple times and the adults.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

People have been praying for a long time, and yet bad things happen. Maybe we should try something else.

I don't dismiss the tragedy that these families are experiencing, I'm dismissing the meaningless platitudes.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Asking for people to take a moment of silence for those impacted by the horrendous shooting does not take away from other deaths. It is an acknowledgement and a reflection of what has happened. Whether you personally choose to take the moment or not will most likely not directly impact these families that have already gone through so much.

Perhaps, taking that moment of silence will allow individuals to reflect on the society we are, our communities, our families and ourselves. This self reflection that many of do not do at all, is maybe what will help us and society. Sure, people, should reflect more often, but don't. It's unfortunate that its takes us a moment in silence to think, but at least there is that moment. I try to reflect weekly if not more often.

Today, I asked my 4 and 7 year old along with me to take an extra few minutes to think. I didn't tell them why, but I asked them to think about how fortunate they are, and what they could do to make this world a better place. I thought about this senseless tragedy, along with some others in my community over the past week, none of course as horrific, but still senseless. I thought about is there a way to stop this by happening to my kids. That just boggled my mind. Then I thought I am so lucky to have what have and reflected on what was really important.... People, and gave my kids a long hug, and rushed them out the door.

Later on, I asked my kids what they asked Santa for when they saw him. My oldest told me that she asked Santa to bring her gifts to kids who had a lot less than her because she was fortunate enough to be in a family that loved her, and could afford to buy her many things. That came from her moment of silence, and THAT is what this world needs. Reflection....


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Who cares about the brown kids in poor parts of the world who get limbs blown off by landmines or unexploded munitions.


Andrew, that was a very fair statement.

I think the Onion summed up your "brown kids" comment perfectly with this short post:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/15000-brown-people-dead-somewhere,3751/

People do tend to grieve more for certain strangers when they can relate to the dead person in some way. Whether it's someone in your area or because the media has made that death well known or because you can identify with the deceased, for whatever reason you might grieve more.

That said, the fact that I couldn't sleep last night until very late because I was so upset about the Conn. murders doesn't mean I think those kids' lives were more valuable than any other children that died that day in the US or any other country. I knew about those 20 dead kids because of the media and I don't know about any of the other kids that died around the world that day. 

You can argue that isn't fair or is hypocritical on my part, but the fact is that just because I choose to grieve for certain kids doesn't mean I'm choosing not to grieve for others. It also doesn't mean I'm obligated to find out all the other kids who died that day and grieve for them as well.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the reason this killing bothered me so much is because both my kids are in the age group of the dead kids and because it wasn't that far from where I live. That doesn't excuse me from the fact that if this had happened further away like Europe or to some "poor brown people somewhere", it wouldn't likely have caught my attention as much. 

My hope is that if someone dies somewhere in an unjust/preventable situation and I don't know or care about it, that maybe someone else who can connect to that dead person more will grieve and maybe even do something about it.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Reflection is great. It won't change what's happened. 

I'm not religious, but I always think of that passage from Matthew, about how you should pray in private, and put oil in your hair so that other won't know you are fasting. In other words, don't make conspicuous displays of piety. Your prayers, reflection, whatever should be about your personal growth, not something to flaunt.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Mike, I can totally understand the empathy you feel. It's not something to apologize for.

Maybe I'm just venting at human nature. We cluck our tongues and say 'what a shame' and don't do anything. We pray, we reflect, we have a moment of silence or a candle light vigil. But we don't do anything.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Plugging Along said:


> Asking for people to take a moment of silence for those impacted by the horrendous shooting does not take away from other deaths. It is an acknowledgement and a reflection of what has happened. Whether you personally choose to take the moment or not will most likely not directly impact these families that have already gone through so much.
> 
> Perhaps, taking that moment of silence will allow individuals to reflect on the society we are, our communities, our families and ourselves. This self reflection that many of do not do at all, is maybe what will help us and society. Sure, people, should reflect more often, but don't. It's unfortunate that its takes us a moment in silence to think, but at least there is that moment. I try to reflect weekly if not more often.
> 
> ...


You added even more to my initial post.
But that was my intention.
for people to stop , look around, reflect , for those who pray to pray.
for those who do not pray or believe in something else or atheistsr to try to focus on what happened.
this is not the typical mass murder.
this was a murder of little children grazed by powerful weapons that on impact possibly mutilated body parts from them.
the common man does not see these kind of victims.
some of us here have seen it i am sure.
in different events .
we are always distracted with mundane things .
My child is older than both of yours already and she is stunned by what happened.
She can barely speak about it due to so much revolt and sadness. a mix of feelings.
You are a very very lucky man and so is your wife.
the answer your oldest gave you is a blessed one.
she has a very warm heart.
may G'd bless you and your whole family through eternity.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

andrewf said:


> People have been praying for a long time, and yet bad things happen. Maybe we should try something else.
> 
> I don't dismiss the tragedy that these families are experiencing, I'm dismissing the meaningless platitudes.


By all means.
any suggestions as to "we should try something else instead of praying"?

do you actually think that people "pray" only?

do you think that there nothing was ever prevented from happenning ? i mean something like this.
If you have any suggestions by all means what are they?

i will tell you something .
after the "event" I do pray because there was nothing anyone could have done.
It again shows me the lack of life experience that you probably have to believe that nothing in the whole world was ever done to prevent acts like this.
I mean the whole entire world.
It takes and involves a lot to prevent things like that , but i do not expect you to know what actually happens behind many scenes that the public never learns about.
This is not a conspiracy theory .
it is real.

I will refrain to engage in a confrontation with you in a moment like this.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Interesting on the other side of the planet http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...shed-in-china-elementary-school-knife-attack/

All the victims survive and although injured go home. 

In the US gun ownership rates per capita are at 88% according to Wikipedia it's crime rate isn't lower than Japan which is one of the lowest amount of gun ownership. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Israel has a pre capita rate of gun ownership of 7.3 which is ten times less than the USA. Apparently it can be difficult if you are a civilian to get a weapon. I'm just relying on the wiki. 

The human organism is extremely complex, and like all complex system must by design fail at times. I was reading that intelligence and mental illness are linked on the same gene http://www.kurzweilai.net/origin-of...al-illness-linked-to-ancient-genetic-accident Ain't that the truth, hang out with some really gifted people sometimes and you'll get what I'm saying  

The point of what I'm saying is that although I'm not convinced there is much possible protection available to society from deliberated acts of domestic terrorism like the Oklahoma Bombing by McVeigh, I believe that keeping guns essentially laying around and easily accessible does really make the results of that "psychotic break" or "murderous rage" much more tragic. 

The case is perfectly illustrated by the comparison of the result of what is essentially the same crime, a madman goes on a rampage in a school. In one case 28 bodies in the other 22 survivors. 

We have this idea that murderers are evil trollish looking beings with bad genetics and facial hair but nothing could be further than the truth. It's more like look in the mirror and remember that horrible day you had. The day where your car started leaking pints of oil and you had to rely on your ex for a car you paid for to get to your job and he kept putting you off for 8 hours... I'll be there in a minute blah blah blah as you kept getting more and more irate and tense as you looked around your house bereft of furniture because he moved out last week while you were at work to move in with his new girlfriend. A girlfriend for whom you were paying for him to take on dates because he hadn't worked for 2 years, And that's why it's neither necessary or good to have guns easily accessible. 

Now I'm not saying that your kids are as active and disobedient as mine, but mine did fish out and eat a package of Nicorette gums from my purse when I was in the bathroom when he was 2 and end up in the hospital poison control center. Of course he did end up getting seen by the pediatric Neurologist and getting diagnosed with a social deficit when he was there...but he's 5 now and there's not a "secret spot" in this house he doesn't know about. You have to be so crazily vigilant with weapons around kids. I'm from a rural area and I know a kid who accidentally shot herself by finding a gun and died.

Now despite the huge rates of gun ownership in the States I've never actually heard about an event like this being prevented by a bystander having a weapon and using it on the perpetrator. A store robbery maybe, but in that case the shop is a target. No one thinks of a school as a target, people are not assessing the situation and reacting appropriately. 

Now apparently the kid shooter was just 20 years old and mildly autistic or personality disorder, and that... brought to mind this article I read in the Star a few days ago about how kids with developmental problems get services until they are 18 and then whammo a lot of the support services they relied on to help them vanish as they hit adulthood http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...project-teens-with-autism-face-uncertain-fate not that the transition from teen to adult isn't fraught with angst and difficulty anyways. 

For right now I haven't seen any official news about what he had or didn't have as a diagnosis. 

I'm also thinking that the motivation for some of these murderers is to make a big news headline, and bring attention to their cause or plight. Brevik is the perfect example of that kind of guy. The media in this case were totally out of line interviewing children and one of them actually broke the news to the shooter's father trying to get a story. What the [email protected]#$ is wrong with that? 

Again, it makes me very sad.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Reflection is great. It won't change what's happened.
> 
> I'm not religious, but I always think of that passage from Matthew, about how you should pray in private, and put oil in your hair so that other won't know you are fasting. In other words, don't make conspicuous displays of piety. Your prayers, reflection, whatever should be about your personal growth, not something to flaunt.


Reflection won't change the past, nor will anything that anyone does. however, reflection may get people to realize that we are connected with others, and that our actions may directly or indirectly impact others. That maybe we can think about what we are doing to make things a little better no matter how seemingly insignificant.

Perhaps the presents that my kids have decided to give will let a child know that there are caring people, and provide a little hope. Perhaps that hope is something helps them in life later. Who knows how a small act of kindness can inspire or touch someone.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

There are different kinds of tragedies and of course the death of any child is a personal tragedy to the family and friends of the child who died. But I don't believe it's being disrespectful to those people to consider that this situation is a tragedy of a different kind and perhaps a greater tragedy in terms of its impact on society. Newtown is a very small town of less than 2000 people; 20 of its six-and-seven-year-old children have been killed. Surely that fact is going to impact the town for many years to come in a way that the death of an individual would not.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

It is somewhat natural that the anguish we feel about such events is related to how closely we identify with the victims. However, I think when someone goes into a school and shoots little children most caring people would be upset whether it happened in an African country, India, Russia or wherever.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I believe it already did happen spidey. Terrorists took over a Russian school and I remember it being all over the news and everyone around the world was shocked,horrified and concerned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

dogcom said:


> I believe it already did happen spidey. Terrorists took over a Russian school and I remember it being all over the news and everyone around the world was shocked,horrified and concerned.


This was an especially bad massacre of children (2004) because the para-miiltary terrorists also killed anyone that tried to intervene, resulting in the military storming the school with tanks and explosives, resulting in the needless deaths of 334 children.



> The attackers mined the gym and the rest of the building with improvised explosive devices (IEDs), and surrounded it with tripwires. In a further bid to deter rescue attempts, they threatened to kill 50 hostages for every one of their own members killed by the police, and to kill 20 hostages for every gunman injured.[18] They also threatened to blow up the school if government forces attacked.


This has to be the worse mass school murder that has been reported to the western media...and this one appears to be for for political reasons,not just a deranged gunman.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

dogcom said:


> I believe it already did happen spidey. Terrorists took over a Russian school and I remember it being all over the news and everyone around the world was shocked,horrified and concerned.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis


Yes. I had that in mind as I was posting.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

The usual contradictory/insensitive comments from the usual posters. And the usual heart-warming/intelligent/sensitive comments from others.

Similar criticism was voiced from the same people when we were discussing the murder of the Shafia girls and their step-mother, ie: what about domestic violence & non-honour crimes, and on and on?

Since when are we not allowed to feel compassion & speak about any specific murder & tragedy that goes on in our country & that of our neighbor [or any other for that matter], unless we are also prepared to speak/cover all murders in this world of 7+ billion people?

Since when discussing issues at home & close to home means we are somehow hypocrites & racists for not also talking about all those that perish every second/day/week/year, from abuse by parents & other/criminal car-accidents/crimes/sickness/starvation/terrorism/war crimes, etc., etc.? Millions die every year, how can we talk about them all?

Those concerned only for the entire world & not just pieces of it, what are you doing to make it better, just talk, just complain/criticize/insult/name-call? Do you even know how many people die from crimes alone every year? So, since it would be impossible to cover them all, are we just supposed to stay completely silent?!

Those 'dismissing the meaningless platitudes', why are you participating in this thread?

If what has been reported thus far is correct, ie: that the mother collected guns/took their children target hunting/knew her son had behavioural/mental problems, then I really have more difficulty understanding her actions than that of her sick or evil son.

*****************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_silence

My favourites quotes:

'Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal.'

'Perhaps they are not stars, but rather openings in heaven where the love of our lost ones pours through and shines down upon us to let us know they are happy.'


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> The usual contradictory/insensitive comments from the usual posters.


I don't think insensitive is the right word. I don't believe anyone indicated that they denied this was a tragedy. Insensitive would be conducting a shooting at a school.

It's just not necessary to be bombarded with the same information and grief no matter where you go, ie; (the watercooler, facebook, cmf, television, radio)

Some people (like myself) prefer to not watch the news, as I do not wish to hear about these types of things. Yet, they are still brought to my attention, some way or another.

And once again, I do agree with andrew's other post as well. Praying obviously isn't working...

But, I'm jaded. So what do I know, right? I'm not surprised by anything. The world is all a letdown. It's about time we all get over it already.

The world can never be and will never be fixed because the human race is flawed (myself included).


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

The aspect of the "shrinking world" is one that needs to be addressed as well.

Just 150 years ago we never would have heard about this until days or weeks after it happened. 150 years is a long time for a single human being, but even as a species, it's an instant.

150 years ago, Connecticut may as well have been half way around the world, and half way around the world may as well have been the moon.

The human being isn't (designed, evolved, programmed, built) to be able to handle all this information from all the corners of the globe. If you try to, you'll drive yourself right over the edge. A half million people are murdered every year around the world! How do you even get up in the morning knowing that?! That doesn't included the accidents, the suicides, the old age, the starvation! Allow for all the mortal factors and 250,000 die every day. Can you even comprehend that number? You might think so, but we can't. As human beings, our little monkey brains just can't handle the scope of what we've collectively created.

We're designed worry about ourselves and our families. That's it. Food, shelter and personal safety.

I feel for the families and can't imagine their grief. But I can't care deeply, and I don't. If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't expect them to care either.

I won't lose sleep, I won't do anything to try and prevent the next one. It's a big scary world out there, and there are lots of good people, and there are some bad people, and there are even fewer crazy people. 

You just can't stop them all. People die hard and ugly everyday. Gun control laws (which I'm for) wouldn't have stopped this tragedy. At 20 years old he would have found a way. Tighter security wouldn't have stopped this tragedy. He broke into the school anyway. This was a crazy man looking to do some damage for some crazy reason.

I'm not jaded, I don't think the world is a letdown. You have to see it (and us) as what it is. It's life just carrying on. There are moments of beauty and moments of horror and above all, it's a risky endeavour.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

carverman said:


> This was an especially bad massacre of children (2004) because the para-miiltary terrorists also killed anyone that tried to intervene, resulting in the military storming the school with tanks and explosives, resulting in the needless deaths of 334 children.
> 
> 
> 
> This has to be the worse mass school murder that has been reported to the western media...and this one appears to be for for political reasons,not just a deranged gunman.


carver.
You are right one more time.
It was political.
nobody was deranged there.
The children and adults were in the line of fire and perished.
several special forces units participated in the incident.
The paramilitary unit was extremely well entrenched and highly organized with heavy gear also.

here we had a massacre done in cold blood.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I don't think insensitive is the right word. I don't believe anyone indicated that they denied this was a tragedy. Insensitive would be conducting a shooting at a school.
> 
> It's just not necessary to be bombarded with the same information and grief no matter where you go, ie; (the watercooler, facebook, cmf, television, radio)
> 
> ...


Flawed yes and so we should give up and die. This goes with investing as well since your keen to that and that is it is manipulated and giving up is a good idea here as well.

You mentioned Amanda Todd before and that one really bothered me because I live close to her. I feel if she talked to me I could have told her that you can't trust your friends and the internet is full of complete idiots and I could have help her with them.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

dogcom said:


> Flawed yes and so we should give up and die. This goes with investing as well since your keen to that and that is it is manipulated and giving up is a good idea here as well.
> 
> You mentioned Amanda Todd before and that one really bothered me because I live close to her. I feel if she talked to me I could have told her that you can't trust your friends and the internet is full of complete idiots and I could have help her with them.


another +10 for ya Dog.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

God bless the little children who were turned into Angels in Heaven on Friday, and their teachers who perished with them.
May the lessons learned from this senseless tragedy, inspire all those that for selfish reasons continue to blindly 
possess firearms for no apparent reason.


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