# wanting a job instead of a career?



## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm coming up on 30, as a single male professional. I was fortunate enough to take a few years off for travel, and instead of finding answers and growing up it seems like all I'm doing is growing older and having more questions. 

I have a degree in engineering and a possibly rewarding career path if I choose to follow through with it. Yet I have no desire to build a career. The striking realization that I don't define my life by what I achieve at work, instead on what I do in my spare time. A lot of my friends and coworkers are very career and goal oriented. They all seem so eager and hungry to advance. I guess I'm looking for validation that it's ok not to think this way. To be satisfied working a job instead of wanting to take on more work load and more stress for a higher paycheck. 

The biggest factor for me is valuing my free time over money. I have lived extravagently and I have lived frugally, it seems like neither have any bearing on my happiness. On top of this, I have no desire to have kids any time soon, and I'm doing above average financially. I don't have any debt. I am considering abandoning my field and working a stress free "job" and living out my life this way. Tell me how crazy I am? :cower:


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

You sound a bit like me, I started a thread earlier about "means to an end" with the same questions...or at least questioning a number of things...

-I would rather define my contributions by the time and energy I give to family, friends and causes vs. my cubicle.
-I value my spare time more and more as I get older (just recently entered 40s).
-I want less stress in my life.

A lot of my friends and coworkers are also career oriented but I/my wife and I have different goals from life. 

Are you crazy? No.
Are you alone in this thinking? No. :hopelessness:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

twowheeled said:


> I'm coming up on 30, as a single male professional. I was fortunate enough to take a few years off for travel, and instead of finding answers and growing up it seems like all I'm doing is growing older and having more questions.
> 
> I have a degree in engineering and a possibly rewarding career path if I choose to follow through with it. Yet I have no desire to build a career. The striking realization that I don't define my life by what I achieve at work, instead on what I do in my spare time. A lot of my friends and coworkers are very career and goal oriented. They all seem so eager and hungry to advance. I guess I'm looking for validation that it's ok not to think this way. To be satisfied working a job instead of wanting to take on more work load and more stress for a higher paycheck.
> 
> The biggest factor for me is valuing my free time over money. I have lived extravagently and I have lived frugally, it seems like neither have any bearing on my happiness. On top of this, I have no desire to have kids any time soon, and I'm doing above average financially. I don't have any debt. I am considering abandoning my field and working a stress free "job" and living out my life this way. Tell me how crazy I am? :cower:


Not crazy at all.

Job related stress is a big cause of early health problems and premature death.

My dad worked 2 full time jobs to "get ahead"........midnights at the CPR and day shift as a window washer.

He didn't really "get ahead"............what he got was a stress related ulcer and a nervous condition that plagued him his whole life.

I have friends who regretted not watching their kids hockey games..........or attending school functions...........because they were working.

Work to live..................don't live to work.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

2W, I can tell you a few things from personal experience and your post. I am a former engineer who got out at 39 and I too struggled with the same issues as you do and finally had to take my own path to find satisfaction. But in order to do that, I had to put the wheels in motion a decade earlier because in the back of my mind I knew I wouldn't last. In my first few years I imagined myself doing the same thing in a cubicle when I was 55 and the thought depressed me so much that made be spring into action.

With what you have told me in your post, I think you could be on a similar path because the working world is not about your personal satisfaction. 

I don't know what your financial status is but I can advise you to start planning now for a potential exit in the future and that involves developing a lifelong alternative income stream so you can decide how long you want to work for.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I also wanted to point out that consider your options carefully before you jump. Once you leave a career and get a gap, its hard to get in again. If you take a stress free job, you will have a hard time getting ahead on that and probably work longer than you like. Stress free jobs have bosses and co-workers and timelines too.

Your engineering job might be your ticket to freedom. You might want to consider just putting your head down for a few years and putting some jack away and investing some of it. With some discipline, you could eye an exit point in 5-7 years possibly. Take it from me, you can fake being a go-getter at work for a few years and keep the prying eyes off you while you plan your escape.

Your decision point was really before you started school because if you took that money when you are 18 and invested it and went to work some cheesy job at the same time, in your mid to late 30s an exit point is possible. In canada its a little tougher to justify but in the US where it takes $100k to get educated, its clearly better financially to invest that and work for 20 years.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You're not crazy, though most of the world will tell you you are...

If I were you, I'd start looking at ways of making passive income...there are many, and I don't want to sway your thinking by making suggestions.

Another thing you may want to do is pick up a few of the Kiyosaki books...they are lousy when it comes to actual advice, but really good at making you feel good about going the road less travelled. It doesn't really matter which one you get, they are all basically the same.

Also, it may make you feel better to know, I don't know many people who got financial freedom from a paycheque...or even much satisfaction in life.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

twowheeled said:


> The biggest factor for me is valuing my free time over money. I have lived extravagently and I have lived frugally, it seems like neither have any bearing on my happiness. On top of this, I have no desire to have kids any time soon, and I'm doing above average financially. I don't have any debt. I am considering abandoning my field and working a stress free "job" and living out my life this way. Tell me how crazy I am? :cower:


I hear you but I'm not sure I have a solution to offer. The problem I think is jobs are setup for the masses, who are busy and focused on their home regardless (kids etc) and can't really afford to do things in their free time for extended periods (kids etc)

Personally I think I would "miss" the stress at some point. My job offers a lot of travel, experiences and involvement that would be hard to replace. Ideally I would actually do the same thing for 6 months for half the pay. Then I would be set

In this work obsessed culture, the best option I see is to work your a$$ off for 5 to 10 more years and then switch gears. With your experience at that point you should be able to find a better work-life balance, maybe even outside of Canada..

twowheeled, motorcyclist?


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## Parkuser (Mar 12, 2014)

The subject of this paper may be somewhat related to your (existential?) problem.

***************************************************************** 
If money doesn't make you happy, then you probably aren't spending it right

Elizabeth W. Dunn, Daniel T. Gilbert, Timothy D. Wilson

Abstract
The relationship between money and happiness is surprisingly weak, which may stem in part from the way people spend it. Drawing on
empirical research, we propose eight principles designed to help consumers get more happiness for their money. Specifically, we suggest that
consumers should (1) buy more experiences and fewer material goods; (2) use their money to benefit others rather than themselves; (3) buy many
small pleasures rather than fewer large ones; (4) eschew extended warranties and other forms of overpriced insurance; (5) delay consumption;
(6) consider how peripheral features of their purchases may affect their day-to-day lives; (7) beware of comparison shopping; and (8) pay close
attention to the happiness of others.

http://dunn.psych.ubc.ca/…/1-s2.0-S1057740811000209-main.pdf
*****************************************************************


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I've mentioned this on another thread, but the happiest I've ever been was when I was a street musician in Europe for nine months. All I did was play music, shoot photos, write, travel, and meet amazing people. The only drawback was living in youth hostels all the time. If not having a 'career' is your truth, do it! But I would also say tat no matter what, to keep investing in your retirement while you do so, as you will not have a company pension etc to take you through. I lived as a bartender for almost 30 years, all the while travelling massively, playing in bands, taking extended time off, partying, etc etc all the while paying myself first regardless. Not everyone needs a traditional life, nor should they; I never 'settled down' until last year, and I still look for ways out. I do now have a stable career, still in my same industry, but I wouldn't change my vagabonding ways for anything (still do it when possible...). As for being an engineer, it's probably an amazing gig; don't count out the possibility of a world- travelling engineer. But all life directions that are not harmful have intrinsic value- if your gut says something, listen.

I struggled for years with 'I need a real career'- etc etc. Then I realized that I am uniquely lucky and qualified to be doing exactly what I am doing and to have had the enormous amount of personal freedom I've enjoyed, and I could not have had the experiences I have had otherwise. And I always felt that while I respected and sometimes felt a tug of envy for those who went the conventional route, it was never really for me. As a line in one of my travel poems written during those soul-searching times says- 

'someone has to build the bridges
so i can stagger 
home'


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

Do you want to maximize your free time or do you want a stress free job? I'm not sure how you're planning to increase your free time with this career change. What do you have in mind?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Parkuser said:


> The subject of this paper may be somewhat related to your (existential?) problem.
> 
> *****************************************************************
> If money doesn't make you happy, then you probably aren't spending it right


That advice is really misplaced. It still assumes that the process of actually spending money is the root of happiness. While I will agree experiences are a worthwhile pursuit, there is no asset you will enjoy more or go to such lengths as your financial freedom. Even the most boring mundane things in life take on new meaning when you do them on your terms and not beholden to anyone.


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## martin15 (Feb 18, 2014)

twowheeled said:


> I'm coming up on 30, as a single male professional. I was fortunate enough to take a few years off for travel, and instead of finding answers and growing up it seems like all I'm doing is growing older and having more questions.
> 
> I have a degree in engineering and a possibly rewarding career path if I choose to follow through with it. Yet I have no desire to build a career. The striking realization that I don't define my life by what I achieve at work, instead on what I do in my spare time. A lot of my friends and coworkers are very career and goal oriented. They all seem so eager and hungry to advance. I guess I'm looking for validation that it's ok not to think this way. To be satisfied working a job instead of wanting to take on more work load and more stress for a higher paycheck.
> 
> The biggest factor for me is valuing my free time over money. I have lived extravagently and I have lived frugally, it seems like neither have any bearing on my happiness. On top of this, I have no desire to have kids any time soon, and I'm doing above average financially. I don't have any debt. I am considering abandoning my field and working a stress free "job" and living out my life this way. Tell me how crazy I am? :cower:


Interesting.
I spent my 20's working for a paycheck, then riding my bike, drinking beer and chasing girls.
Fell into serious work for 15 years, don't remember most of it.

But I am out now. 

Living well or cheap, no one will take care of your future except you.
Especially after 60, old age pension won't be enough to carry you through.
I traded time to build up money, but got out before it killed me.


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## Parkuser (Mar 12, 2014)

tygrus said:


> That advice is really misplaced. It still assumes that the process of actually spending money is the root of happiness. While I will agree experiences are a worthwhile pursuit, there is no asset you will enjoy more or go to such lengths as your financial freedom. Even the most boring mundane things in life take on new meaning when you do them on your terms and not beholden to anyone.


Well, the financial independence is a fantastic goal. But you may be financially independent and still be unhappy. Actually, I know an engineer who made huge money in the dot com craze and suddenly realized he has nothing to strive for anymore. Financial independence seems to be something of the “it’s the journey, not the destination” variety.
The poster makes good money in engineering, but does not find it rewarding and wants to “get a job” to be happy. Such a choice would probably endanger his financial security, not lead to a financial independence. My suggestion is, maybe you are not spending your money in a right way?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think wanting what we don't have(that is anything and everything)is completely normal.
I would bet maybe your just in a low state of mind.
The notion of chucking everything away and starting a new is a great fantasy but in reality i am not so sure you would likely want that.
I think you probably just have to work on yourself?changing environments won't change you per se
Have you ever worked in the culture of a 'job' before?have you been surrounded by uneducated people before in a work setting?
Sometimes i think it would be cool to leave my business stress behind and maybe throw on a brown uniform at Tim hortons and i think all my stress will be relived,but i know deep down that would prob make life 10 times harder(way to many new issues would come with a change like that,one's you likely haven't even considered)
I am not saying change is not needed(it is and sometimes life will force a change)but the saying 'where ever you go there you are' is a good one.think it might be a personal growth challenge you are facing or a working on yourself issue(your just attaching it to your job and falsely thinking it is a cause)just M.O


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

^+1
As they say 'the grass is always greener', and 'life is what you make of it'.
Maybe a trusted acquaintance would be a good sounding board to bounce pros & cons off of and offer their perspective?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

To a young stranger..........I would advise them to see the world and worry about a career later.

To my own son................I would have difficulty giving the same advice.............although it should be the same.

Maybe don't listen to family or any advice for that matter.............just follow your heart.

As they say..............Damn the torpedoes...........full speed ahead.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

twowheeled said:


> I'm coming up on 30, as a single male professional. I was fortunate enough to take a few years off for travel, and instead of finding answers and growing up it seems like all I'm doing is growing older and having more questions.
> 
> I have a degree in engineering and a possibly rewarding career path if I choose to follow through with it. Yet I have no desire to build a career. The striking realization that I don't define my life by what I achieve at work, instead on what I do in my spare time. A lot of my friends and coworkers are very career and goal oriented. They all seem so eager and hungry to advance. I guess I'm looking for validation that it's ok not to think this way. To be satisfied working a job instead of wanting to take on more work load and more stress for a higher paycheck.
> 
> The biggest factor for me is valuing my free time over money. I have lived extravagently and I have lived frugally, it seems like neither have any bearing on my happiness. On top of this, I have no desire to have kids any time soon, and I'm doing above average financially. I don't have any debt. I am considering abandoning my field and working a stress free "job" and living out my life this way. Tell me how crazy I am? :cower:


I don't think you are crazy not to want chase the career, however, before you throw in the towel, I suggest you VERY carefully plan and make sure you know yourself.

There is nothing wrong with a stress free job, but are you going to be able to live the life that you want with a stress free job? If I recall you used to like blowing a lot money, and being able to,do what ever you wanted. You had the money to do so, but not always the time. What kind of things do you like to do? Will they cost money? Will you be equally happy having to say no because you don't have the money? 

Money doesn't buy happiness but it does buy choices. 

If you know yourself really well, and really do want a frugal life, then you can trade a high paying career for a stress free job. A few of my friends, work just enough to cover their next adventure. They don't worry about money, and just figure it out even with a child. They don't want much in life, and are happy just being. A career job would drive them nuts. They are not material in the least and have found inner happiness. 

I think you should really look at what makes you happy, before you make any drastic changes. You invested a lot of time in your degree, at least spend a fair amount to see if it's the work. 

I know someone up who Amkes A lot in their work (8 figures a year), he wasn't happy with his work, but then said that the lifestyle he was able to afford was well worth it. The things that did bring him happiness he would not be able to do if he changed his work. 

There is nothingwrong with following a different path, but you should know what you want at the end of the path.


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## kevinlk (Jul 9, 2009)

I wouldn't say that you are crazy. My personal experience is rather similar to what you are experiencing at this time: I'm currently 27 and was looking to, when I was younger, to get a career, make a ton of money, retire and see what's there out there. As I grew older (I know that I'm still rather young compared to the average poster!), I also found out that I value my time much more over a career and a lot of money. As such, I quit my job last year after having saved many years of expense and decided to look out my interests and such. While that haven't been a huge success in itself, that time also allowed me to learn more about myself, mainly that I have no interest in a career and have no need to secure a vast amount of money either for extravagant expenses. 

Knowing that I don't want kids and don't want a complicated life, I'm currently considering a stress-free part time job to pay for expenses and allow the savings to continue growing. The previous job I had was rather demanding (pager, with potentially unlimited hours during evening/week-ends), and while it paid well, I learned that I'm much better off without that kind of work.

In any case, think about what you really want, plan for it, and then jump for it! If possible, have a few years of expenses saved up to remove any potential financial stress.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

thanks for the insightful responses. A stickler about my career is working in Alberta, most of the jobs are in industrial construction. Employers love to tack on long hours to these projects, and currently I'm working about 12-13 hour days, 5-6 hours a week. The only thing I have time to do is cook my meals, clean up, and go to bed. I quit this lifestyle in Ft Mac a couple years ago but now I'm seeing the exact same thing happening all over again in Edmonton. The other issue I have with being a "professional" is now you have certain expectations with employers. It looks bad on a resume to have gaps and to be shuffling around between companies every 6 months. 

I know myself pretty well. I get spurts of ambition but I have terrible ADD. When I set my mind to something I want it to happen immediately but I will get bored if there are no results. I realized that I simply can't "tough it out" in a desk job for 5-10 more years. I think the idea of salary and putting in extra unpaid time for the allure of a promotion or a raise is ludicrous. Most of all, I'm just not a hard worker. It took a lot of time for me to accept this but I doubt I can change my personality type. Despite forcing myself to complete a degree and being out in the work force, I hated most of it. I procrastinate like crazy, I don't like working hard to make other people rich, and I'm very lazy. I want a job with not much responsiblity, and the freedom to leave and find something else at anytime.

Financially, I can probably tough it out for 1-2 more years and be able to afford a small house or condo, if I so chose. Beyond that, I have most of the material wants in my life already and a job would put food on the table, gas in my tank and the lights turned on.


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

If you're still willing to be an engineer, consider working for the government. Federal (eg. NEB), Provincial (eg. AER), Municipal (eg. City of Calgary was offering $87k-$147k for 35hr work weeks).

In general, lower but still decent pay, lower stress/workload, more days off compared to private sector.


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