# Are people really this financially incapable ?



## sags (May 15, 2010)

On Saturday I drove by one of those "taxes done" places in a renovated home.

There was a long lineup of people standing in the doorway, across the front porch and down the stairs and sidewalk.

They were all clutching papers, and the sign said............taxes done for $50.

I did my taxes using free Turbo Tax and sent it to the CRA electronically. The CRA uploaded all the information to Turbo Tax.

I can't believe so many people are that incapable.

Today we received the notification for the long census. It has a code to fill it out online.

It took 2 minutes to answer the questions and submit it.

I wonder if the tax places will now charge people $50 to do the census for them.

View attachment 9906


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

My dad used to do people taxes. he was going to get into the 'instant cash back' angle but he just couldn't do it b/c he thought it was such a rip off. basically charging people 5% or something for a 4 week loan is a massive rip-off.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

From what I have observed, the biggest problem is that they have already decided they can't do it, without bothering to find out what is required. Those that do quickly figure out that they are doing 80% or better of the work so they might as well save the fee by DIY.


Cheers


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Speaking of financially incapable, I heard a woman in BC sent some CRA scammers $8000 in iTunes gift cards. How can you be so dumb to believe that the CRA really wants to be paid in iTunes gift cards???


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spudd said:


> Speaking of financially incapable, I heard a woman in BC sent some CRA scammers $8000 in iTunes gift cards. How can you be so dumb to believe that the CRA really wants to be paid in iTunes gift cards???



Spudd there is a new member on here thinks that if he sends $10,000 to an overseas financial manager & gets back $7500 as foreign investment income, the CRA is going to give him a $2500 foreign tax credit ...


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

I stumbled on an old T1 of my parents circa 1944. In those days, if you were above a certain income level the T1 was more complex. I believe it had 10 or 12 separate tax brackets. My Mom was the brains of the family, and she did the T1..... never complaining. BTW there were no computers or calculators in those days. Have we become that innumerate? I guess so.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

speaking of the census (long & short) - how many trees were destroyed for these millions of pages?
couldn't it (shoudn't it) ALL be done online in this day & age????


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I think it is simply laziness. Too lazy to find out how to accomplish it, too lazy to actually do it. Turn on the TV and try to ignore it.

As for some of the others. Well, as the man said, you can't fix stupid.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

No, It's in Calgary and THE WOMAN paid almost $20k.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/itunes-gift-card-cra-tax-scam-1.3547507


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

There's lots posted here on CMF (never mind the wild world out there) to choose from for questionable financial info.

One poster who read an article that some with a big pension could have a good chunk of OAS clawed back so his reaction was that he should liquidate his RRSPs. There was no response when the question was asked what the estimated retirement income was thought to be.

Another was sure that owning the dividend paying stock for a couple of days would result in a full year of dividends to be paid, whether one owned the stock at the next dividend's date of record or not.

Many have been sure that withdrawing from their TFSA this year and having the withdrawal become contribution the following year is "multiplying" TFSA contribution room.

Some have read that around $50K in dividends are tax free but miss the "where the dividends are the only income source".


Cheers


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

scorpion_ca said:


> No, It's in Calgary and THE WOMAN paid almost $20k.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/itunes-gift-card-cra-tax-scam-1.3547507


Wow, that's even worse! Here's the BC one:
http://globalnews.ca/news/2672145/cra-scam-dupes-burnaby-woman-out-of-8k/

I have no clue how I heard about the 8k BC one and not the 20k Calgary one!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Spudd said:


> Speaking of financially incapable, I heard a woman in BC sent some CRA scammers $8000 in iTunes gift cards. How can you be so dumb to believe that the CRA really wants to be paid in iTunes gift cards???


I wouldn't rush to blame someone for doing that.

The scammers these days are running an aggressive campaign. They call in from a call center, pretend to be CRA or IRS officials, and start threatening the person. They threaten huge fines and penalties and present payment options, one of which I think is to use a store pre-paid credit card. Some people really get rattled by threats and I cannot blame the victim in these cases. The scam artists are doing a criminal activity and they are fully to blame for the theft.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

There are circumstances where you want someone else filling out your taxes, even if you have a simple return as a wage earner.

Imagine you are a recent immigrant, and have taxes to file in more than one country. Well I guess that is a bit much, because the H&R flunkies are not up for that.

I had the company pay to do my taxes while I was working overseas. 

Yet I am fully comfortable filling them out in Canada.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I wouldn't rush to blame someone for doing that.
> 
> The scammers these days are running an aggressive campaign ... Some people really get rattled by threats and I cannot blame the victim in these cases. The scam artists are doing a criminal activity and they are fully to blame for the theft.


Trouble is ... this is nothing new ... if I gave into everyone who tried to rattle me, especially the collection agency - I'd be a lot poorer. My parents pointed out a long time ago, that scammers are everywhere and a legit debt person may not be happy but should not be aggressive with "I am processing what you say, I have to verify and if legit, payment will be made".


Cheers


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

At least poor abilities here won't get anyone killed. After bouncing off the next boat and the dock a few times, I once watched a boater then proceed to tie up to the electricity post. Poor capabilities here are but just a specific example of the general condition.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I wish I could afford to be stupid and just hire everything done.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> Wow, that's even worse! Here's the BC one:
> 
> I have no clue how I heard about the 8k BC one and not the 20k Calgary one!



Hmmm..targetting the trusting seniors again, who grew up before phone scams, phishing scams, identity scams, fake bank inspector scams, fake policeman scams and scam-scams. I'm sure there is an "app for that"..read below...



> Her 78-year-old dad received a phone call from someone claiming to be from Canada Revenue Agency. The fraudsters told the retired farmer he owed $90,000 in back taxes and asked him to stay on the line. Under their direction,he *drove to various Safeway stores in St. Albert buying as many $500 iTunes gift cards as he could.*


 itunes cards..very saleable on Kijji at a discount..similar to Gillette high tech razor blades ( read my old thread about a thief who stole $2000 worth of razor blades from a drug store in Smith Falls ONt).

Now seems obvious that these were teenagers or young guys who actually knew what an itunes card was. 
RELATED


> Ontario woman defrauded of more than $12K in iTunes gift cards in CRA scam: police
> “They’d have him go out to his car in the parking lot, and sit down and read the iTunes cards back to them,” Boychuk said, shocked that her dad handed over any money at all.”*My dad’s a very intelligent fellow*].”


Now seems obvious that these were teenagers or young guys who actually knew what an itunes card was. 

*Fly on the wall somewhere in Edmonton's retired farmers apartment:*

*Telephone:* ring ring!
*Retired farmer;* hello, who is calling?
*Voice on other end of the telephone line:* I am with the CRA , Mr <name withheld> and our records show that you owe us $9,000 in back taxes!"
*Retired farmer:* I do? How is that possible? I took my taxes to H&R Block and they assured me that I would get a substantial refund. In fact, I had to pay them 25% of my substantial refund..around $3000 dollars.:confused2:

*Voice at other end;* CRA audit shows that your tax forms were filled incorrectly by H&R Block, so now you owe us $9000 + interest and need to pay up immediately.
*Retired Farmer:* Ok, I guess since you work for CRA, I need to follow the law and pay my taxes. How should I make out the cheque?
*Voice at other end;* Instead of a cheque, we also take itunes cards as payments..you will need to go into <name of store withheld> and buy these $500 value itunes cards, 18 should do, then wait for another phone call from our CRA agent to tell you where to meet him to give him your payment.
*Retired senior:* Thank goodness, we have the CRA looking after our best interests. :upset:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> Hmmm..targetting the trusting seniors again, who grew up before phone scams, phishing scams, identity scams, fake bank inspector scams, fake policeman scams and scam-scams ...


Grandma was taken in by the "I work for the silverware company, I can get you a great set for cheap" long before these items. My folks were also on the lookout despite these either being rare or non-existent.

So while it is much easier to hit up more people ... leading people astray is not new.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/man-who-sold-eiffel-tower-twice-180958370/?no-ist


Cheers


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

*Scam artist:* I am with the CRA , Mr <name withheld> and our records show that you owe us $9,000 in back taxes!"
*Me as a retired senior:* Sure, come on over. I'll be sitting on the front porch with a can of gasoline. You can watch me set myself on fire.
*Scam artist:* click.....


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

As someone who has used a tax paying service, i can say it has a lot to do with procrastination. I had 3 years of tax returns built up and i only got it done because i used a service. I now do them myself. I say if someone wants to use the service, it is their money to use as they want.


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

I would gladly pay $50 to someone to do my taxes, if I was sure they were a true expert at it. That is a small amount of money even if they find one potential saving every few years that I might miss.

The problem is that tax professionals fall into two categories. The $50 variety, which are usually done by people with a very minimal amount of training, and very little requirements. (a high school diploma is enough to work at H&R block, not even requiring good marks)

Then there are the true tax professionals but they cost a lot more.

I've done my own taxes since I was 19, and I do them for a few family members as well, but some of the tax situations are complicated, and it takes a lot of research to make sure you're doing everything in the best way possible to minimize taxes.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I too would like to get professional help for close to free. I think engineers should get paid minimum wage. All they do is add numbers together and build stuff. :/


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

Well I'm all about professionals getting paid fair money for fair services.

But when I started doing taxes for family members about 20 years ago, the accountant was charging $100-$400 per person off the books, and I quickly realized that these were simple tax situations that I could complete in about 10 minutes each with quick tax.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I would gladly pay $50 to someone to do my taxes, if I was sure they were a true expert at it


 Very true! I did couple of times taxes with "experts" for $50 ... at the end I had a feeling that I'm helping them to do my taxes


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Many people spend much more time deciding/researching which car or TV to buy than they ever do on their investments, their finances, or their consumer debt.

Laziness pure and simple. Too lazy to do it, too lazy to research how to do it. And they wonder why they do not get ahead in life-financially or otherwise.

There is no secret to this. I have a few relatives who don't get it and never will. They think we are lucky. So lazy and so committed to inaction that they actually believe that luck is the differentiator. Go figure.

I am a big believer in engaging professional help-legal and financial where appropriate. Our tax accountant has helped us avoid a fair amount of income tax over the past ten years simply by structuring our investments. This year the fee was $470 for two personal returns. Really $280 in after tax dollars. A bargain. For that we get a CA student doing the tax prep donkey work and a CA reviewing the file for accuracy, tax avoidance opportunities, and tax advice.


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## noobs (Sep 27, 2015)

Well some people have a more complicated tax situation (investments, properties, different incomes) so someone like me I rather pay someone to do it and not worry about it.


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## rsyl (Aug 15, 2014)

I've done my own taxes two years in a row using free software and also hired a CA firm to also do my taxes just to get an idea on what I am paying for.

In both those years I had a larger return (after paying the fee) using a firm than doing it myself, small mistakes add up, for instance on my first year I accidentally claimed my CO-OP fuel rebate as income instead of only claiming the taxes, that added $200 to my tax bill alone. There is something to be said for the audit protection as well.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

"Are people this financially incapable?"

God yes. Even more so than that. There are plenty who don't file at all or file every few years. I have a friend (otherwise successful) who is currently sitting on a 5 year backlog. I would offer to do it for him but he owns three rental properties (17 units) and that rigmarole is beyond my ken.

I have done our taxes (me and SWMBO) for 19 years. First with paper forms, pencil and dollar store calculator. Then with QuickTax, then Turbo Tax when they bought them. The last few years with the free Studio Tax software. But, my situation has now become so convoluted (dozen and a half accounts spread between two people and two CCPC) that it has become to complex for me. Could I do it ? Yes. Should I ? No. I came to that realization slowly (male pride) and I paid our CA to do it this year. To my delight, he saved us 5 figures in tax spread over the next three years (well beyond what I had calculated).

Sometimes ya gotta spend money to save money.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Where it is complicated ... absolutely ... most I have talked to who are willing to discuss it have employment income, a few investments and charitable donations.


As I say, they seemed to be doing most of the work.


Cheers


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

My heart goes to people who have lost their jobs and are running out of severance.

While at an event today in Calgary I spoke to someone in the financial servces industry. One of the major financial institutions in the province is calling out to their retirees with experience in 'asset recovery' to offer them contract work. Apparently the commercial lending side of the institution is swamped. They expect the consumer side to heat up substantially over the next few months-starting in Calgary.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I remember when this happened in the US and bankruptcy rates were starting to rise, so how did George Bush Junior help people out....by making it more onerous and difficult to claim bankruptcy of course.


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