# Renting an Illegal Basement Suite



## eniven

Hey guys,

I just moved into a house in Calgary with a partially developed basement (walls are up and are mostly drywalled, laminate flooring is installed). It still needs lots of work, but some of the structure is there.

Anyway, my wife was thinking that it might be a great idea to convert our basement into a 1 bdrm suite and rent it out. I looked into it a bit and determined that it would be difficult, impossible or at least very expensive to do this legally.

I think we have the correct zoning, but it's the construction that is the issue.

Namely, suites built after 2006 need to have:
-a separate heating/cooling system for the basement
-must be LESS than 753 sq feet.
-must be constructed of 1/2 inch drywall for fireproofness.

Anyway, I just installed a brand new furnace in the house and certainly won't be adding another furnace.

The city website states that illegal suites are not investigated unless there is a complaint (I guess from a neighbor).

The question is: Would any of you consider converting your basement to an illegal suite? I know there are already lots out there in Calgary and I'm curious if any of you have experience in this area? Thanks!


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## Four Pillars

I don't have a problem with an illegal suite. Just because the city isn't regulating it, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the apartment.

Are you sure about the separate heating/cooling requirement for a basement suite? That really doesn't make any sense to me.

I would think that having separate meters might make sense. Separate temp controls would be good, although I guess that is kind of hard if there is only one heater/ac.


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## iherald

Four Pillars said:


> Are you sure about the separate heating/cooling requirement for a basement suite? That really doesn't make any sense to me.


Agreed, but if you look at this link, that's the rule. For once Ontario doesn't seem so bad...

http://www.bobtruman.com/Suites_Legal_or_Illegal/page_1677309.html

Specifically:

What are some of the criteria that determines if a basement suite is legal? The property requires the following to be legal:
-a completely separate entrance
-2 furnaces
-An upgraded floor/ceiling to meet fire regulations
-R-2 zoning with 50' of frontage
-A suite constructed before 1970 that is non-conforming can still be considered legal under the "grandfather" clause


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## spearcy

I've read discussions about Calgary basement suites on the public MyREINSpace forums. You might want to check those out. Apparently one solution to the separate heating systems issue is to install electric baseboard heating in the basement suite.


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## Four Pillars

iherald said:


> Agreed, but if you look at this link, that's the rule. For once Ontario doesn't seem so bad...
> 
> http://www.bobtruman.com/Suites_Legal_or_Illegal/page_1677309.html
> 
> Specifically:
> 
> What are some of the criteria that determines if a basement suite is legal? The property requires the following to be legal:
> -a completely separate entrance
> -2 furnaces
> -An upgraded floor/ceiling to meet fire regulations
> -R-2 zoning with 50' of frontage
> -A suite constructed before 1970 that is non-conforming can still be considered legal under the "grandfather" clause


Thanks for providing that link.

At first I thought this requirement was ridiculous - the idea of having 2 furnaces is impossible given the size of most basement apartments.

I'm now wondering what constitutes a "heating system"? Could you put a space heater in the basement? Maybe just install electric heating?

I didn't see anything about cooling system. I don't believe that air conditioners could be mandatory?

If the basement is small, then maybe it's not such a big deal.


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## Cal

Not familiar with all of the rules there.

However...what is the difference between having an illegal suite or simply having a roommate that uses the 2nd kitchen and bath?

I have known of people who have had an illegal suite. The neighbours reported them b/c of all of the cars coming and going from the place.

Personally, I wouldn't be too worried if you are on good terms with the neighbours...and wouldn't worry about the furnace or cooling system. But I would ensure the drywall and windows are up to code. Simply for safety. If there ever was a fire, I would have to know that I at least provided an acceptable escape window, and had drywall to fire code to ensure more escape time.


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## OhGreatGuru

This is a financial forum. Rules for basement suites are very local. For technical requirements specific to Calgary, talk to the Calgary Bdg. Dept. or look for some real estate blogs in Alberta.

If you have an illegal bsmt. suite and tenant causes a fire, your insurance won't be worth a d**n.
If you have a non-conforming suite and tenant sues you for damages you won't be covered.
Having a fire separation not only protects the tenant, it protects you and your family from tenant's stupidity.
If anyone gets killed in a fire in an illegal suite anywhere in Calgary, you can be sure there will be a sudden inspection crackdown on all such suites.


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## eniven

spearcy said:


> I've read discussions about Calgary basement suites on the public MyREINSpace forums. You might want to check those out. Apparently one solution to the separate heating systems issue is to install electric baseboard heating in the basement suite.


Hmm, your point about the electrical baseboard heaters is interesting. That sounds like a good idea.



Cal said:


> Not familiar with all of the rules there.
> 
> However...what is the difference between having an illegal suite or simply having a roommate that uses the 2nd kitchen and bath?
> 
> I have known of people who have had an illegal suite. The neighbours reported them b/c of all of the cars coming and going from the place.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't be too worried if you are on good terms with the neighbours...and wouldn't worry about the furnace or cooling system. But I would ensure the drywall and windows are up to code. Simply for safety. If there ever was a fire, I would have to know that I at least provided an acceptable escape window, and had drywall to fire code to ensure more escape time.


I think a basement becomes a suite when a kitchen is installed. Houses with 2 kitchens are technically illegal suites (I think).

Good point about the drywall. No question, I would have the proper windows installed (I think they're already to code actually).



OhGreatGuru said:


> This is a financial forum. Rules for basement suites are very local. For technical requirements specific to Calgary, talk to the Calgary Bdg. Dept. or look for some real estate blogs in Alberta.
> 
> If you have an illegal bsmt. suite and tenant causes a fire, your insurance won't be worth a d**n.
> If you have a non-conforming suite and tenant sues you for damages you won't be covered.
> Having a fire separation not only protects the tenant, it protects you and your family from tenant's stupidity.
> If anyone gets killed in a fire in an illegal suite anywhere in Calgary, you can be sure there will be a sudden inspection crackdown on all such suites.


Insurance is what I'm most worried about... How does insurance work on a basement suite (legal or illegal)? If I had a legal suite, would I need to have separate insurance for the basement suite? Or would it fall under my home policy?


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## kcowan

eniven said:


> ...Insurance is what I'm most worried about... How does insurance work on a basement suite (legal or illegal)? If I had a legal suite, would I need to have separate insurance for the basement suite? Or would it fall under my home policy?


I would talk to your insurance broker. Even with added insurance, if it is an illegal suite, the insurance might not be valid.


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## Alexandra

There are tons and tons of supposedly "illegal" basement suites in the city of Toronto. The city just looks the other way - if they did not, there would be a serious housing shortage on the less expensive side of the rental market. I think it is probably cheaper for them to look the other way than to try to somehow provide people on the lower end of the finacial spectrum with affordable housing.

I have a basement apartment in my home. It has it's own separate entrance, a full kitchen, bathroom and laundry room, but a shared HVAC system. It's pretty much the norm in my area. When we bought the place, in MLS it said that it had a basement apartment and said something about it not being "zoned" for being used as a rental, yet it was being rented when we bought it. 

As for your neighbors, as long as you have someone in there who is quiet and respectful, you shouldn't have an issue (you'd want someone like that anyway). If you suspect it might cause a problem, tell them it's your cousin - you can have family members down there with no questions asked.


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## MoneyGal

I think there's two forms of risk and both are being discussed in this thread - the first is that you violate the property tax laws in your municipality (and some related laws and codes, such as the fire code). The only way to have a basement suite declared "legal" (AFAIK) is to have it inspected for code - it isn't just a property tax grab; there are building codes which are apparently designed for building safety. 

The second form of risk is property (and potentially casualty) risk. If you do not disclose to your insurance company that you have an unrelated third party living in a separate suite in your home, you risk that any damage caused by them - or any suit they bring against you - would not be covered by your insurer. The insurer's POV is that they can only insure risks about which they are properly informed; and the duty is on you to disclose. Make sense?


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## OhGreatGuru

Alexandra said:


> There are tons and tons of supposedly "illegal" basement suites in the city of Toronto. The city just looks the other way - if they did not, there would be a serious housing shortage on the less expensive side of the rental market. I think it is probably cheaper for them to look the other way than to try to somehow provide people on the lower end of the finacial spectrum with affordable housing.
> 
> ...


Yes, we know, that's why municipalities are starting to pass rules governing them. For a long time basement suites (and boarding/lodging houses) were considered "undesirable" by city planners, and zoning laws discriminated against them. But as you rightly point out there is a legitimate need for such accommodation, and there has been a large underground real estate sector for them. Finally cities (read governments) have woken up to reality and decided to stop pretending they don't exist; and instead created design rules to prevent them from being instant slums.


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## cardhu

toolbox said:


> created ... rules to prevent them from being instant slums.


... and in some cases to prevent them from existing.


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## Berubeland

Basement suites will exist as log as people have huge mortgages and tenants need affordable housing. 

Most cities have grants, in Toronto we have the RRAP program, Edmonton has Cornerstones Grant and your city may have something similar to encourage home owner/ investors to comply with the much more expensive building required by law to "comply". You'll have to deal with licensed contractors who perform inspections and charge a premium.


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## OhGreatGuru

cardhu said:


> ... and in some cases to prevent them from existing.


True, some may use it as an excuse to try to do this. But most governments are paying lip service to accommodating densification and affordable housing. But at the same time in our (relatively) affluent society landlords should not be allowed to charge for windowless basement bedrooms with no heating controls, no sound or fire separation, and no exits. Letting it happen makes a mockery of all our pious words (and legislation) about decent housing standards.


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## cardhu

Not an “excuse” ... and not “trying” ... what I’m referring to has nothing to do with the condition of such apartments, but is more related to zoning rules ... (its curious that you would refer to these as “discriminatory” ... that word’s meaning has been sadly diluted in recent years) ... I am simply referencing news stories I recall hearing in the past few years, in which some communities (east of Toronto, IIRC) have succeeded in enforcing an outright ban on rental suites in some areas, for no other reason than they don’t want them to be there ... period ... regardless of conformance to codes. 

I agree that there is a genuine need for affordable housing, and that in some communities, basement apartments fulfil this need quite effectively ... personally, I don’t want them on my street ... but I have them and there’s nothing I can do about it ... fortunately, the people currently living in them are quiet people who manage to confine their urination to appropriate facilities, instead of on my front lawn while I’m sitting on the front porch.


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## toronto

*toronto has a secondary city runs as 'illegal basement renting'*



Alexandra said:


> There are tons and tons of supposedly "illegal" basement suites in the city of Toronto. The city just looks the other way - if they did not, there would be a serious housing shortage on the less expensive side of the rental market. I think it is probably cheaper for them to look the other way than to try to somehow provide people on the lower end of the finacial spectrum with affordable housing.
> 
> I have a basement apartment in my home. It has it's own separate entrance, a full kitchen, bathroom and laundry room, but a shared HVAC system. It's pretty much the norm in my area. When we bought the place, in MLS it said that it had a basement apartment and said something about it not being "zoned" for being used as a rental, yet it was being rented when we bought it.
> 
> As for your neighbors, as long as you have someone in there who is quiet and respectful, you shouldn't have an issue (you'd want someone like that anyway). If you suspect it might cause a problem, tell them it's your cousin - you can have family members down there with no questions asked.


It is absolutely true. In 95% of neighborhoods there are 90% basements are renting out in this city. That is way of life. 
I rent out a condo, with Tax, condo fee, and mortgage payed, about one thousand dollars to 3 thousand dollars lost every year - because of the difficult tenant who causes lot of damage to the property. 
Only this 'not legal' basement rental can actually make money - period.


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## GeniusBoy27

Hmmm ... if you have a cash flow negative property, are you sure you want to keep your condo?


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## iherald

toronto said:


> In 95% of neighborhoods there are 90% basements are renting out in this city.


putting aside the poor grammatical structure, do you have any evidence to suggest these numbers are accurate? It doesn't seem very likely to me.


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## Berubeland

The basement apartment market has been gutted the last few years with tenant profile getting worse. This is due to increased vacancy rates and lowering of rents. Why would a person rent a basement when they can go rent in a building for just a few bucks more? 

Rents have also gone down and utilities have gone up. All of these market conditions have contributed to the decline of the basement apartment market in all but the better neighborhoods in the city.


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## skitter

one consideration not mentioned here is that a common tactic of tenants being evicted for non payment of rent, illegal activities ect, is to report the basement apt to the various city depts.

this is encouraged by the tenant duty counsel at the landlord tenant board to delay the evicition.

This can make the landlord's life a hell and it can be extremely expensive to make the apt legal (if zoning laws even allow it to be done)

If you are gong to rent out a bsement apt you had better make certain it is legal in every respect or you are taking a huge liability.


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## Berubeland

Skitter,

Your order of events is skewed, by the time the non paying tenant reaches duty counsel at the Landlord & Tenant Board they have already been not paying rent for at least a month and a half. 

Tenant duty counsel does not have to incite tenants to claim they have maintenance claims, they do this all on their own. Almost every tenant has the exact claim, which turns out to be groundless. 

There is no need to frighten landlords with bogus stories about tenant duty counsel. Furthermore this claim was investigated and found to be false, the people making this claim were asked to provide names of the evil tenant duty counsels who were doing this heinous act and none of the people claiming this crap could remember any names. If you have any documentation that is different I would be grateful to see it. 

Furthermore any maintenance claim that was hatched up by the tenant in the 5 minutes with the Tenant Duty Counsel immediately before the Hearing would be quickly dispensed with as the tenant would have no evidence and no case once in front of the adjudicator. 

Why don't you spend some time telling landlords that they should do a unit inspection shortly before the hearing so they can have some evidence of their own. That's what I do.


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## Scottlandlord

Berubeland said:


> Skitter,
> 
> Your order of events is skewed, by the time the non paying tenant reaches duty counsel at the Landlord & Tenant Board they have already been not paying rent for at least a month and a half.
> 
> Tenant duty counsel does not have to incite tenants to claim they have maintenance claims, they do this all on their own. Almost every tenant has the exact claim, which turns out to be groundless.
> 
> There is no need to frighten landlords with bogus stories about tenant duty counsel. Furthermore this claim was investigated and found to be false, the people making this claim were asked to provide names of the evil tenant duty counsels who were doing this heinous act and none of the people claiming this crap could remember any names. If you have any documentation that is different I would be grateful to see it.
> 
> Furthermore any maintenance claim that was hatched up by the tenant in the 5 minutes with the Tenant Duty Counsel immediately before the Hearing would be quickly dispensed with as the tenant would have no evidence and no case once in front of the adjudicator.
> 
> Why don't you spend some time telling landlords that they should do a unit inspection shortly before the hearing so they can have some evidence of their own. That's what I do.


Berubeland, you always want to appear as the province wide 'expert' on rentals when you are not. 

How many properties do you actually own? And where?

TDC in many areas (which you may be unaware of) take a personal interest in helping tenants. It's hardly "5 minutes" for many landlords.

TDC has many lawyers/paralegals actually visiting properties to help coach tenants.

And final unit inspections? Many tenants simply refuse. Then what are you going to do.


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## rookie

what is the motivation for TDC to do this? is this city's means to go after illegal basements?


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## Berubeland

Dear Scottlandlord,

I own one property with a basement apartment which was kept rented for well over 10 years until my son (now 2) started messing with my upstairs home office and I moved it downstairs. 

What qualifies me to speak on this matter is the hundreds of hours I have spent at the Landlord & Tenant Board both working for a rental agency then a building with over 400 units.

Tenants don't actually get to refuse final unit inspections and if they do this would certainly prejudice the case of the tenant claiming maintenance issues wouldn't it?

Furthermore, none of the vaunted paralegals on the ontario landlord forum one of which is the originator of this unsubstantiated complaint actually own rental properties either. 

The particular complaint below was dismissed because in spite of being asked to provide proof of the allegations against Tenant Duty Counsel *no instances were provided*. 

If you have any different evidence I would love to see it. 

As for community legal clinics they do go above and beyond but this is hardly a regular occurrence. I have had exactly 2 tenants that used a community legal clinic out of hundreds. 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...i2QfKh&sig=AHIEtbSlCIYSpDrBvjU98ZRbMdOFWhqdFA

What really irritates me is that Landlords in Ontario are in a system that skews toward the tenant in non payment of rent collection issues... There is no need make unsubstantiated allegations and repeat them over and over again. There are plenty of real issues to work on. 

That allegation and your collective idea that electing a conservative government will solve all landlord problems absolutely destroys your organization's credibility and alienates the current government who could actually do something to help you. Furthermore I am the opinion that even a conservative government will not help you because they chase votes just as much as the next government and THERE ARE MORE TENANT VOTES. You have to suck up to all the politicians especially in a MINORITY government. 

Again as on your forum from which I was banned for speaking the truth as I have observed it when I ask for proof you attack me personally instead of actually coming up with some occurrences. 

It makes me very sad because your organization could actually help landlords if you worked together on issues that are real, instead of being marginalized for making specious claims. The day I was banned I was actually asking for help on working on just some of those issues! The particular thread was asking for volunteers to email all MPP's regardless of affiliation copying the very effective tenant activist methods of getting their issues in front of the legislation. 

My idea of trying to get non payment of rent cases heard within 2 weeks instead of one month was dismissed while ideas about repealing the entire Residential Tenancies Act and removing tenant duty counsel were very popular. The former would save landlords countless thousands of dollars as a whole and might even be achievable.


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## Scottlandlord

I'm not part of any 'organization.' I only like some sites that are helpful to me. Don't be so paranoid.

So you don't own any rental properties yourself. Ever hear of the phrase "put your money where your mouth is?"

May I ask: are you a licensed paralegal in Ontario? Only licensed paralegals are able to represent landlords at the LTB. 

Yet you have so many hundreds of billions of hours at the LTB. In the audience.

And, despite your usual bluster, you wrong about some TDC actions. Should I share with you? Why? Get a paralegal license. Learn how the system works. Because as of now, your only skill is self-promotion.

I'd be happy to answer anyone who sends me a PM.


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## Four Pillars

Scottlandlord said:


> I'm not part of any 'organization.' I only like some sites that are helpful to me. Don't be so paranoid.
> 
> So you don't own any rental properties yourself. Ever hear of the phrase "put your money where your mouth is?"
> 
> May I ask: are you a licensed paralegal in Ontario? Only licensed paralegals are able to represent landlords at the LTB.
> 
> Yet you have so many hundreds of billions of hours at the LTB. In the audience.
> 
> And, despite your usual bluster, you wrong about some TDC actions. Should I share with you? Why? Get a paralegal license. Learn how the system works. Because as of now, your only skill is self-promotion.
> 
> I'd be happy to answer anyone who sends me a PM.


ScottLandLord - If you are just going to come in here and criticize, then why don't you just leave??


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## Scottlandlord

I'm not here to criticize.

I own over 100 rental units. I'm here to help.

And sometimes 'help' means stepping on toes. Sorry.

I am new to this website and I think it's terrific and I want to add honest advice to it.

I firmly believe that those who actually own rentals ("have skin in the game") are people who often have great advice. If we fail, we lose our shirts.

As for the Landlord and Tenant Board, it is an important entity in Ontario in 2010. You have to be legally registered as a paralegal to go in front of the board if you are not the landlord.

I've been in front of the Board many times. It's natural since I own lots of rentals.

I only want to give real, serious advice to those interested in rental properties. 

I don't want to manage your property for a fee. I'm only here to share some of my experiences.

Best Regards,

Scott


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## Berubeland

Scottlandlord said:


> I'm not part of any 'organization.' I only like some sites that are helpful to me. Don't be so paranoid.
> 
> *I only say this because you and your ilk are specifically spreading the exact same propaganda wherever you go.
> *
> So you don't own any rental properties yourself. Ever hear of the phrase "put your money where your mouth is?"
> 
> *Actually as I said I own one, that was rented for many years. I will gladly put my money where my mouth is when the market makes sense, I don't believe in buying income properties that you have to feed money to every single month*
> 
> May I ask: are you a licensed paralegal in Ontario? Only licensed paralegals are able to represent landlords at the LTB.
> *
> That is somewhat true since they introduced the RTA in 2006, they never enforced that rule until 2007, people who work full time for the landlord are exempt, as are "friends", people who are covered under other Acts are also exempt from this requirement.
> 
> This is highly problematic for me, about 99% of my business comes from performing rentals for people for a commission. Personally I think from an ethical standpoint if I put them in I should kick them out if I make a mistake. Other rental agencies are in the same position I am with my company. We didn't change the law but we have to deal with it. *
> 
> Yet you have so many hundreds of billions of hours at the LTB. In the audience.
> 
> Other than working full time as a building rep and property manager I have never been to the Landlord & Tenant Board as an audience member.
> 
> And, despite your usual bluster, you wrong about some TDC actions. Should I share with you? Why? Get a paralegal license. Learn how the system works. Because as of now, your only skill is self-promotion.
> *
> The reason you should share with me, and the other people here is to let us know of real concerns, the whole song and dance about TDC is crap not you or anyone has actually been able to substantiate this. Furthermore I deal and write a lot about landlords and landlord issues, if I'm making a mistake I'd like to know.
> 
> Furthermore TDC are civil servants, they are hired by Legal Aid to help tenants who want to talk to them at the Board in their little office. The idea that tenant duty counsel goes around after their work hours inspecting tenant's homes is very difficult to believe.
> 
> Municipal Affairs and Housing inspect premises for infractions, but that is an entirely different agency. For instance if you lock a tenant out without a Board order they will come and threaten you with a fine, they can fine individuals up to $25,000 for this and corporations up to $100,000 after a hearing at the Landlord & Tenant Board. The largest fine I have seen so far is however $1000.00 there may be bigger fines out there I am unaware of.*
> 
> *I don't want to get a paralegal license, I don't want to evict people for a living, I'm already a property manager, I have a company that is doing OK, will be writing my mortgage license in September, I have a family to support, going to school for 3 years, accumulating thousands of dollars in student loans so that I can make $150 per appearance at the Board while paying thousands in license fees to LSUC is completely crazy. Even people who have been in the business for years are struggling.
> *
> I'd be happy to answer anyone who sends me a PM.


If these kinds of allegations are what you feel free making in the light of day, I'm pretty sure whatever allegations you are tempted to make in private are actionable. I have no idea why people from the landlord website feel like I should be attacked in the REIN Forum,my website and here. I don't know you, I have never worked for you, I have never even met anyone from that forum or had any business dealings with them. You make outrageous statements with no proof and then attack any one who challenges your allegations.

Attack me all you like from now on, I don't feel the need to defend myself from irrational haters, I'll trust that people have the sense to figure out what is logical and they can make their own choices.


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## iherald

Scottlandlord said:


> I'm not here to criticize.
> I only want to give real, serious advice to those interested in rental properties.


I've looked through your 11 posts. There are a few pieces of advice, get your tenants to pay the utilities so that they don't stick you with the bill, when you have to serve tenants with forms.

But it seems that through your posting so far you do more criticizing than you do providing "real, serious advice". 

I'm not trying to be a dink, just stating that Berubeland has provided lots of advice to people on this site. Whether you agree with all the advice is a different matter, but don't start suggesting that she doesn't know what she's talking about, but you do, if you aren't going to show that you actually have information to share.


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## Scottlandlord

Rentals are my business, my livelihood, and an industry which I have lots of money invested in. So I take it seriously.

I'm only here to share my experiences. Some of my experiences (and the things I've learned) are harsh. It's not an easy business.

I think these forums are a wonderful resource and I'm here to help others, long-term.

That will mean that I could disagree with people. Not out of any personal issue, only about what is real advice and what is self-promotion.

It's a hard business, especially in Ontario where the rules are stacked against landlords.


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## Four Pillars

Disagreeing with people and criticizing them are two different things. You might want to do a lot less of the latter.

I don't think you have posted anything of value. Life is too short to be dealing with jerks, which is why I shall be skipping your posts henceforth.


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## Scottlandlord

Four Pillars said:


> Disagreeing with people and criticizing them are two different things. You might want to do a lot less of the latter.
> 
> I don't think you have posted anything of value. Life is too short to be dealing with jerks, which is why I shall be skipping your posts henceforth.


I'll be skipping yours. Although I haven't even noticed you before this post.


The problem with "illegal" units is that a tenant who owes rent can get revenge fast and easy by shutting you down. 

You serve an N4? "How dare you!" A quick call to bylaws.

I'm breaking a lease and you won't give me back my LMR!? "How dare you!" A quick call to bylaws.

It happens all the time.


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## FahionGM

*complaints?*



eniven said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just moved into a house in Calgary with a partially developed basement (walls are up and are mostly drywalled, laminate flooring is installed). It still needs lots of work, but some of the structure is there.
> 
> Anyway, my wife was thinking that it might be a great idea to convert our basement into a 1 bdrm suite and rent it out. I looked into it a bit and determined that it would be difficult, impossible or at least very expensive to do this legally.
> 
> I think we have the correct zoning, but it's the construction that is the issue.
> 
> Namely, suites built after 2006 need to have:
> -a separate heating/cooling system for the basement
> -must be LESS than 753 sq feet.
> -must be constructed of 1/2 inch drywall for fireproofness.
> 
> Anyway, I just installed a brand new furnace in the house and certainly won't be adding another furnace.
> 
> The city website states that illegal suites are not investigated unless there is a complaint (I guess from a neighbor).
> 
> The question is: Would any of you consider converting your basement to an illegal suite? I know there are already lots out there in Calgary and I'm curious if any of you have experience in this area? Thanks!



What types of complaints wold the city need in order to start the investion into certain suites?


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## Berubeland

FahionGM said:


> What types of complaints wold the city need in order to start the investion into certain suites?


Neighbours and tenants can report you. In fact anyone who hates you can report you. I knew this lady who's sister in law reported her. 

The good news on this issue is that the province of Ontario has passed a law making basement apartments legal everywhere. The cities now have to suck it up and figure out what they're going to do. Last I heard they're still pursuing landlords. Brampton, Mississauga etc.


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## OhGreatGuru

_The good news on this issue is that the province of Ontario has passed a law making basement apartments legal everywhere. ..._

This is from a zoning point of view only. The suites still have to meet building & fire code requirements. Many municipalithes have been slow and/or reluctant to spell these out in easy-to-understand terms, because of the historical zoning bias against them. But it varies with municipalities, depending on the local pressures for housing. It must be ten years since the Ont. government made this change to facilitate densification and affordable housing. The policy isn't going to change, so municipalities should get off the stick over implementation.


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## Berubeland

Actually this law was just signed by the Governor General in January http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page9572.aspx

So what we've had was a hodge podge of municipal regulations. Some cities outlawed them entirely unless they were grandfathered in like Markham, Mississauga, Brampton and almost every city except Toronto. 

Basement apartments are really difficult because rules and regualtions are different in every municipality.


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## Causalien

Scottlandlord said:


> I'll be skipping yours. Although I haven't even noticed you before this post.
> 
> 
> The problem with "illegal" units is that a tenant who owes rent can get revenge fast and easy by shutting you down.
> 
> You serve an N4? "How dare you!" A quick call to bylaws.
> 
> I'm breaking a lease and you won't give me back my LMR!? "How dare you!" A quick call to bylaws.
> 
> It happens all the time.


This is relevant to my interest.

Scotlandlord, please provide case numbers where TDC goes after illegal basements so I can study them.


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## Berubeland

This is an old post Causalien and brought back a lot of unpleasant memories for me. Scottlandlord was banned at some point after this. 

It is true that a tenant can call the city and get you in trouble if you have an illegal suite. I've heard of quite a few cases and it's usually a neighbour calling the city. 

To be sure Tenant Duty Council does inform tenants of their rights at the day of the hearing right before the hearing they'll see all the tenants and spend a few minutes with each of them. More problematic is when a tenant goes to free legal clinics and mostly law students spend hours working on their cases. I have never seen a case where tenant duty council actually leaves their office to help tenants in their spare time although this is a big province and could conceivably happen. I'm not sure where this myth even started. 

I have heard of one adjudicator who went to a tenant's house to check out if the cat smell was worthy of eviction. (It was)


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## Causalien

Ah...

I had a suspicion that this is an account created to attack you due to the real world lawsuit. Demanding case numbers was my way of verifying who is who.
But it is also relevant to my interest since my empire is growing. Thanks for all the information, I will double my schmoozing effort and always bring extra wines when visiting neighbors.


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