# Where is Just a Guy?



## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

Where is our resident rental expert?

Haven't seen him for awhile.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Perhaps busy scooping up bargains from those who are at risk of defaulting on their mortgages and other debt obligations, facing job loss, tenant defaults, etc., real or apprehended.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Funny thing is someone just sold a house identical to mine a couple doors down for a good 15% above asking 10d ago, setting a new record on the street. I'm not sure that the housing market has started to correct yet.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mukhang pera said:


> Perhaps busy scooping up bargains from those who are at risk of defaulting on their mortgages and other debt obligations, facing job loss, tenant defaults, etc., real or apprehended.


Or imagined....


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Real estate is very illiquid and laggy and it will take a long time for prices to reflect the underlying conditions. ZRE, the Canadian real estate index, is down 38% in 1 month. That is more reflective of the mood in the market.

Sure, you could buy real estate now, but why would you pay record prices and get in a bidding war? Better prices are coming for sure. It may just take some missed mortgage payments to get there. A million or two Canadians going unemployed soon.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I read AirBNB rentals are being converted to traditional rentals


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> Perhaps busy scooping up bargains from those who are at risk of defaulting on their mortgages and other debt obligations, facing job loss, tenant defaults, etc., real or apprehended.


 Cash is king, Would not be wanting to hold rental real estate. The crash cycle is just starting & will not be over till 2022. Already renters are going to have trouble paying rent & the government @ the bottom will allow them to stay rent free if they can not pay.


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## P_I (Dec 2, 2011)

Zipper said:


> Where is our resident rental expert?
> 
> Haven't seen him for awhile.


Their last post was this one on March 18.

There has also been some forum software problems recently. I know because I was experiencing them for at least a week. I could login successful, but when I read a post at the bottom I saw:

You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

If I click Reply with Quote I got:

vBulletin Message
P_I, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

P_I said:


> If I click Reply with Quote I got:
> 
> vBulletin Message
> P_I, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
> ...


Yeah, I can't look at attachments. Apparently I must be a new member with less than 5 posts. Can't wait to see what the new software will be like. Sigh.

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

JAG said he owned many low end rental properties and had used 100% mortgage leveraging.

If that were true, he would be at ground zero for defaulting low income tenants. I don't know if landlord can evict in his Province.

This is the black swan for that kind of real estate "investing". This is the scenario that could "never happen".


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

m3s said:


> I read AirBNB rentals are being converted to traditional rentals


I've been reading that the condo scene in the big cities is going to be extra bad with this downturn because:

1) A good amount of owners are doing AirBNB. Their rent will be zero.
2) A good amount of renters are doing airBNB subletting businesses. They have no skin in the game, and will immediately default on their rent and stick it to the owners.
3) Young tenants appear to have zero scruples during this crisis, and seem to be willing to try to screw the owners for short term gain (unknown long term consequences) for the slightest coronavirus-related excuses. I actually had to check myself yesterday from nearly succumbing to such thoughts, before writing the rent cheque and sending as usual...
4) Governments seem very supportive of issue #3, particularly after 20 years of news media stories about "evil rich landlords", and especially combined with the economic abandonment of millennials, many of whom are trapped in rentals with their young families.

All of these things will culminate in punishing apartment/condo owners severely.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

peterk said:


> 1) A good amount of owners are doing AirBNB. Their rent will be zero.


Good! Imagine living next to an airbnb, especially in a downtown condo. Loud parties all the time, garbage thrown everywhere, fights, drugs...









After Years of Hoarding Places to Live, Airbnb Hosts Are Panicking


'Ghost hotels'—buildings that are filled with short-term rentals to tourists—have cleared out amid the coronavirus pandemic and left Airbnb profiteers saying it’s 'impossible' to find anyone for their apartments.




www.vice.com


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Would love to see Airbnb hosts have their heads handed to them. Some are of good moral character renting for example while they are snowbirds. Others are simply slime acting as hoteliers. Municipalities have not been able to crack down enough on landlords trying to make a fortune on Airbnb rather than long term rentals for housing purposes.

Not directly applicable, but FWIW, a brand new multi-purpose building in our city designed for short term rentals (with furnished suites) is just obtaining their occupancy permit. They have announced they are now looking for longer term tenants, e.g. full summer and/or fall because the short term Airbnb crowd has vanished.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Would love to see Airbnb hosts have their heads handed to them. Some are of good moral character renting for example while they are snowbirds. Others are simply slime acting as hoteliers. Municipalities have not been able to crack down enough on landlords trying to make a fortune on Airbnb rather than long term rentals for housing purposes.
> 
> Not directly applicable, but FWIW, a brand new multi-purpose building in our city designed for short term rentals (with furnished suites) is just obtaining their occupancy permit. They have announced they are now looking for longer term tenants, e.g. full summer and/or fall because the short term Airbnb crowd has vanished.


Sorry, don't understand the evils of AirBnB hosts. I'm puzzled when I seem to be taking the more 'pro-market' approach to the majority on this board. I understand the pressure that they put on housing availability/affordability, but isn't that just the market doing its thing?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Sorry, don't understand the evils of AirBnB hosts. I'm puzzled when I seem to be taking the more 'pro-market' approach to the majority on this board. I understand the pressure that they put on housing availability/affordability, but isn't that just the market doing its thing?


I guess it depends. I'm a little ambivalent on the whole thing as I have used AirBnB on occasion. There are some "legitimate" hosts who actually offer the BnB experience in their primary residence as a way to supplement income or to meet people. It's the grey area of people buying dozens of condo units with the intent of running a "virtual" hotel, without playing by hotel rules. The problem with that is if you are calculating the city hotel accommodation capacity, it'll be a little skewed. In fairness, I don't know if anyone does, or if it is used to justify hotel building permits. As an aside, it does remove long-term residential accommodation capacity away from city residents which causes an artificial shortage and cause long-term rental prices to rise. It's pretty much similar to the Uber vs taxi arguments.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

andrewf said:


> Sorry, don't understand the evils of AirBnB hosts.


You would if your next door neighbor sold his house to one.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Sorry, don't understand the evils of AirBnB hosts. I'm puzzled when I seem to be taking the more 'pro-market' approach to the majority on this board. I understand the pressure that they put on housing availability/affordability, but isn't that just the market doing its thing?


This would be perfectly fine IF the housing construction/zoning market and the mortgage market and the population market (immigration) and the job market, were all allowed to go along un-interfered with by the government...
The urban core housing environment would slightly transform to a more "touristy" feel as some 10% of the population was transient airBNB'ers, and the residents that didn't want to experience this would leave.

As it stands, nobody is allowed to build nice houses in desirable locations due to zoning and environmental regulations - materials, labour and renovation prices are through the roof due to building code and environmental regulations - mortgages are offered with no risk to banks, driving up prices, via CMHC regulations - more "new canadians" are flooding into the country without job offers, driving up housing demand - more economic activity is consolidating into urban regions due to big-business friendly and small-business unfriendly regulations.

People are trapped in urban environments living in 500sqft boxes, desiring to raise a family, they can't escape from from this living situation currently, and AirBnBs are making things worse.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Tokyo is apparently the most affordable real estate market in the developed world because it relaxed zoning

If we did that it would mean destroying traditional urban cores and people's quiet back yards to into whatever the market demands

Population density is increasing while NIMBY boomers want established RE to stay the same


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm pretty sure after this virus gets sorted out, living in bee hive densities in our cities should lose their allure.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Tokyo is apparently the most affordable real estate market in the developed world because it relaxed zoning
> 
> If we did that it would mean destroying traditional urban cores and people's quiet back yards to into whatever the market demands
> 
> Population density is increasing while NIMBY boomers want established RE to stay the same


Well, houses are very small/modest in Tokyo. Their houses tend to be pretty disposable, too. They are kind of intended to be knocked down in 20-30 years.

This is all fine, if this is what people want. But it is not necessarily a land of milk and honey when it comes to RE.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

peterk said:


> I've been reading that the condo scene in the big cities is going to be extra bad with this downturn because:


I actually think the Canadian RE bubble will totally burst and crash with recent events. I think the fun is over.

Commercial lending has completely frozen up, and all banks and institutions are re-evaluating their lending. I don't think anyone is going to continue lending to real estate related corporations (which includes corps with RE portfolios, malls, office space, but also builders and RE services)

And I think anyone who has a RE related business, including small guys who leveraged to buy several properties, are about to be ruined.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

bgc_fan said:


> As an aside, it does remove long-term residential accommodation capacity away from city residents which causes an artificial shortage and cause long-term rental prices to rise. It's pretty much similar to the Uber vs taxi arguments.


It's much worse than Uber actually. Unlike Airbnb, Uber does not remove road capacity or cars from the local population. Nor does it cause unreasonable issues with neighbors. There is also the matter or Airbnb not paying commercial property taxes and not paying towards the tourism funds which exist in many places (unless that has changed recently?). Add to that using cheap contractual labor with no oversight for housekeeping vs hotels which tend to have unions and (I presume) inspections every now and then.

I'm all for the original Airbnb idea of people renting a room in their actual home, like traditional B&Bs. Or even their entire home while they're on vacation elsewhere for a few weeks. But Airbnb "distributed hotels" need to die a horrible death.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

off.by.10 said:


> It's much worse than Uber actually. Unlike Airbnb, Uber does not remove road capacity or cars from the local population. Nor does it cause unreasonable issues with neighbors. There is also the matter or Airbnb not paying commercial property taxes and not paying towards the tourism funds which exist in many places (unless that has changed recently?). Add to that using cheap contractual labor with no oversight for housekeeping vs hotels which tend to have unions and (I presume) inspections every now and then.
> 
> I'm all for the original Airbnb idea of people renting a room in their actual home, like traditional B&Bs. Or even their entire home while they're on vacation elsewhere for a few weeks. But Airbnb "distributed hotels" need to die a horrible death.


Yeah, my fault. I had originally wrote the Uber comment, but then added the preceding sentence afterwards, which made it a little misleading. For the record, Quebec does have AirBnB owners pay the normal tourism/hotel taxes, which makes it a little less lucrative in Quebec. I don't know if any other jurisdictions do as well.

But I agree with you about the original concept of providing a service for B&Bs to find tourists, and not so much about the idea that you own a bunch of rooms and never interact with those who rent.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

sags said:


> JAG said he owned many low end rental properties and had used 100% mortgage leveraging.
> 
> If that were true, he would be at ground zero for defaulting low income tenants. I don't know if landlord can evict in his Province.
> 
> This is the black swan for that kind of real estate "investing". This is the scenario that could "never happen".


Don't think he's leveraged 100%. If I recall correctly, he's financed his purchase price 100% but the property gained value so he's most likely no higher than 80%.

He might be headed for some turbulence but that's a risk he assumed while acquiring the properties. I wouldn't be too concerned for him.

Those who should be concerned are indeed those who are highly leveraged. Unfortunately, everyone believe they are RE experts until they hit a crisis like the one we're currently living. Very few are able to weather the storm.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

^
My recollection is his purchases are financed 100% but he vigorously pays down the mortgage with extra payments.
Anyway, he's going to have a serious cash flow problem as tenants don't have to pay rent, and can't evict them. In the meantime selling property for cash is suspect. Quite frankly, this could wipe out a lot of landlords.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

As I recall, he buys cash, for cheap and skipping a lot of the usual process because cash. Then renovates if required and rents. Then mortgages the property to get cash for his next purchase.

So it really depends how agressive he was in expanding. He could have a lot of older properties with significant equity. Or not. I don't remember if he had tricks to go above 80% LTV. I do remember some talk about trying 4 or 5 different departments of the same bank to get loans though. At least I think that was from him.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Sorry to have been a way a while, I was looking into my buy and hold investments and buying up some stocks while they are on sale. Been getting double digit returns lately.

No need to worry about my real estate holdings, the government is handing out cash to pay the rent, all my places are full and I’ve got my Standard income every month. Had someone offer me their three bedroom place for 80k the other day, but I don’t want to pay that much for it considering the current market conditions. If they want out of the rental business, they’ll have to do better. It’s a great time to make money right now.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

off.by.10 said:


> It's much worse than Uber actually. Unlike Airbnb, Uber does not remove road capacity or cars from the local population. Nor does it cause unreasonable issues with neighbors. There is also the matter or Airbnb not paying commercial property taxes and not paying towards the tourism funds which exist in many places (unless that has changed recently?). Add to that using cheap contractual labor with no oversight for housekeeping vs hotels which tend to have unions and (I presume) inspections every now and then.
> 
> I'm all for the original Airbnb idea of people renting a room in their actual home, like traditional B&Bs. Or even their entire home while they're on vacation elsewhere for a few weeks. But Airbnb "distributed hotels" need to die a horrible death.


I am very much against what AirBnB turned into. It will put a smile on my face to see those abusing the original concept fall flat on their faces right now. With no one travelling, hopefully those renting out multiple units and in fact running a defacto hotel business will be hard hit. 

Those renting out one room in the house they live will also take a bit of a hit but it is far less likely to be a hard hit.

I don't think most people who rent through AirBnB even know what the original concept was. They just see it as a cheaper rental than a hotel and that's all they care about. Even the name escapes their notice. AirBnB originally meant renting an 'Airbed on the floor of a room in your home'. Much like a normal BnB only intended to be something done when for example a convention was in your city and no hotel rooms were available for rent. A last minute way of getting a place to sleep for the buyer and a way for the homeowner to make a few extra bucks once in a while. That was the concept.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> Sorry to have been a way a while, I was looking into my buy and hold investments and buying up some stocks while they are on sale. Been getting double digit returns lately.
> 
> No need to worry about my real estate holdings, the government is handing out cash to pay the rent, all my places are full and I’ve got my Standard income every month. Had someone offer me their three bedroom place for 80k the other day, but I don’t want to pay that much for it considering the current market conditions. If they want out of the rental business, they’ll have to do better. It’s a great time to make money right now.


Good to hear you are doing OK. I just bought some wine that was put up for sale by a prominent NYC restaurant that I presume needed some cash right now. Firesale price. It will sit in a NYC wine warehouse(minimal cost) until things get back to the 'new normal', whatever and whenever that might be. Even if it has to sit for say 2 years before I sell and even if I have to sell at the pre-Covid19 market price, I should be able to get a 40% return on the purchase price. I consider that a decent return for a 2 year investment.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

i bought husky energy at $3, it’s around 4.50 today a week later...I think a 50% roi in a week is a decent investmen....even though I generally don’t like the oil sector.
I do like the stability of the monthly rents that come in each month. Not many people willing to jepeodize their homes to save a couple of bucks. 
But, then again, I’ve only been through several downturns over the years, what would I know about making money compared to all these armchair experts.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

JAG:"buying up some stocks while they are on sale. Been getting double digit returns lately."
hi Jag..any other examples, besides Husky?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> JAG:"buying up some stocks while they are on sale. Been getting double digit returns lately."
> hi Jag..any other examples, besides Husky?


Disney, cedar park (fun), TD, live nation, tyson foods, coke, Boston pizza, maybe a couple of others...all things I use and understand.

yeah, I know, it can’t be done...

i was also helping a buddy get into stocks, he’s up 25% overall with his choices.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> i bought husky energy at $3, it’s around 4.50 today a week later...I think a 50% roi in a week is a decent investmen....even though I generally don’t like the oil sector.
> I do like the stability of the monthly rents that come in each month. Not many people willing to jepeodize their homes to save a couple of bucks.
> *But, then again, I’ve only been through several downturns over the years, what would I know about making money compared to all these armchair experts.*


Only took two posts for the king of un-invited snark to return to his trademark style.

Whoever thought this thread was a good idea Lol?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Just a Guy said:


> Disney, cedar park (fun), TD, live nation, tyson foods, coke, Boston pizza, maybe a couple of others...all things I use and understand





peterk said:


> Only took two posts for the king of un-invited snark to return to his trademark style.
> 
> Whoever thought this thread was a good idea Lol?


sorry I’m stepping on your toes. Took you only one post.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Jargey!, where've you been?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> Jargey!, where've you been?


self-isolating, b'y! I didnt want to chance possible spreading to other cmf-ers. all good now!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> i bought husky energy at $3, it’s around 4.50 today a week later...I think a 50% roi in a week is a decent investmen....even though I generally don’t like the oil sector.
> I do like the stability of the monthly rents that come in each month. Not many people willing to jepeodize their homes to save a couple of bucks.
> But, then again, I’ve only been through several downturns over the years, what would I know about making money compared to all these armchair experts.


It is only a 50% ROI if you sold Just a Guy. Otherwise it is just a 'paper profit' which so many posters here always seem to not understand. So should I presume that you did sell?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

No, I’m a buy and hold investor I admit...however my stocks are margined so I can access the profits to buy other stuff Without triggering the capital gains. Had I done that I would have lost out on more money as its up to 4.82 today. 

are you sure you won’t drink away your “profits” and sell the wine instead? Two years is a long time...no pun intended.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, getting back to my old ways, just got two one bedroom places for 45k each. Have one rented for July 1, get possession on June 15, the second we get possession on June 30, should have it rented as soon as renovations are done will make $850/ month each.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Just a Guy said:


> Well, getting back to my old ways, just got two one bedroom places for 45k each. Have one rented for July 1, get possession on June 15, the second we get possession on June 30, should have it rented as soon as renovations are done will make $850/ month each.


Where do you buy these houses so cheap?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Not houses. One bedroom apartments. It sounds to me like secondary markets, and highly distressed owners.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

They are just listings that come up on mls, most are foreclosures. My realtor sends me all the listings as they are posted.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> No, I’m a buy and hold investor I admit...however my stocks are margined so I can access the profits to buy other stuff Without triggering the capital gains. Had I done that I would have lost out on more money as its up to 4.82 today.
> 
> are you sure you won’t drink away your “profits” and sell the wine instead? Two years is a long time...no pun intended.


Hard to drink the profits when the wine is warehoused in NYC.

Now that places including restaurants are starting to open up, I may seem some movement on wine prices quite soon and sell sooner than in 2 years. 

As per a new thread I started under General Discussion, I have just changed cars and as an offshoot of that process I have also been looking at Classic Cars. I've owned several and always sold for more than I paid. That's another form of direct investment most people don't consider.

It takes some research to gain knowledge just like anything else but it occurs to me that right now, some people who are having some financial difficulties may be looking to raise some capital by selling their Classic Car. I've seen some listings that look interesting in the last few weeks but the buying process during Covid is somewhat off putting for trying to do it safely. You cannot easily buy 'sight unseen' or 'contact free'.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Just a Guy said:


> They are just listings that come up on mls, most are foreclosures. My realtor sends me all the listings as they are posted.


They certainly do come up. I lost out on a 3BR townhouse a couple months ago. It eventually sold for 71K. Complex exteriors are all being redone, looks quite nice. Rents for 1200/mo.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

nobleea said:


> They certainly do come up. I lost out on a 3BR townhouse a couple months ago. It eventually sold for 71K. Complex exteriors are all being redone, looks quite nice. Rents for 1200/mo.


Just curious, do you guys have this much cash sitting around that you can buy a 70K property, then buy another 60K one, and another (maybe approaching a quarter million $ total cost)...

And then you're also paying cash to fix up things that are broken, plus the various taxes, condo association fees, on multiple properties at once?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

You just need financing. It's not hard, I have access to enough LOC borrowing to buy a few $70k properties, if needed. Of course, you should also be able to get a mortgage.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

It does get much tougher to get financing hen you get into double digits in number of units, but basically you refinance them and get your money back, even where I buy, the average price of a one bedroom is higher than 45k, so getting all your money back isn’t that hard. Then you just rinse and repeat. renovations don’t cost that much if you develop a system, I can redo any interior for 5k in materials, that includes kitchen cupboards.

condo fees, taxes, etc. come out of the rent for the most part, the two I bought already have renters lined up at $850/month. Fees and taxes only amount to around $300, leaving $550 for financing of the 45k and profit. Can you afford not to do it?


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Just curious, do you guys have this much cash sitting around that you can buy a 70K property, then buy another 60K one, and another (maybe approaching a quarter million $ total cost)...
> 
> And then you're also paying cash to fix up things that are broken, plus the various taxes, condo association fees, on multiple properties at once?


We had enough on a HELOC to buy it outright and pay cash for the renos. Then once reno'd, rented and the complex exterior redone, mortgage it as JAG does. Prior sales were in the 110-130K range, so even at 80% LTV the mortgage money would've covered the HELOC and renos with a bit to spare. Even setting aside $200-250 a month for maintenance and repairs, it was going to cash flow something like 400 or 500 a month.


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