# snow (spring)birds in Florida...?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

someone mentioned on another thread that they were in Hawaii (presumably on vacation?) and the place was "deserted".
curious to know if anyone's in Florida now...or has friends /family vacationing & any feedback as to what the landscape is like down there...
anyone?


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> someone mentioned on another thread that they were in Hawaii (presumably on vacation?) and the place was "deserted".
> curious to know if anyone's in Florida now...or has friends /family vacationing & any feedback as to what the landscape is like down there...
> anyone?


We are in USA, but not in Florida. We have heard of a few people here heading home, but not many. Our family thinks we should leave too. But we are staying put for a while yet. We are just a day or two's car drive from home. Not like being in Hawaii. Or Mexico for that matter. I hear many Canadians in Mexico are heading home.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

agent99 said:


> We are in USA, but not in Florida. We have heard of a few people here heading home, but not many. Our family thinks we should leave too. But we are staying put for a while yet. We are just a day or two's car drive from home. Not like being in Hawaii. Or Mexico for that matter. I hear many Canadians in Mexico are heading home.


We’re in Florida. If it wasn’t for the TV and Twitter, you wouldn’t know anything was going on. Restaurants are full, beaches are packed, retailers are busy. Couldn’t find a seat at the condo pool. restaurants don’t even have sanitizer at the tables or hostess desk. Grocery stores have inventory....no evidence of hoarding or panic. It almost seems too casual. I did hear that some folks are heading home early. We flew out of Niagara Falls....not sure if that will make coming home easier or more difficult. We’ve made small changes....choosing patios vs eating indoors, opting for take out vs dining in.

The bulk of March break travellers should be arriving tomorrow.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Interesting ... here in Miami, I have been noticing all week how many people, whether it's food service or things like tours that are wearing gloves. When I said to the bell boy that we had luggage as if we were staying a couple of weeks, he broke out in a big smile and made a comment about that being great. I'm not sure how busy it should be for this time of year but at most, there were two of us and four other people in the pool. Maximum sunbathers was six more people.


We were at the Publix grocery store Thursday night where I overheard a customer inquiring about some sort of fruit where the employee said they were out and would be for a while. The fruit section is the only section I saw a couple of bare spots, in our wanderings.

Friday night, while trying to stock up for the trip home - something like two thirds of the fruit shelves were bare. The bread section was maybe ninety percent empty. Personal size water bottles were out for all but one brand (in short supply). There were about four or five brands of the one litre and up bottles, surrounded by bare shelves. We didn't go down all the rows as we were looking for specific items but at least six rows of shelves that were full or close to it night before are two thirds of the distance or more bare. Not just a single shelf but the bare sections are from floor to the top (usually three shelves).

The cereal for my niece on Thursday was picked up from the front of the shelf (i.e. almost completely full) but tonight, there was four boxes left on the shelf (i.e. mostly empty).


Cheers


*PS*
Lots of room on South Beach to be on the beach with lots of space.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

It never fails to amaze me how Americans only ever seem to think that the USA is the only country in the world and that everything they do and have is the best.

Their healthcare system as we now is poor and their reaction to this virus has been apalling so far. Florida had 25 new cases reported today.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...a-including-several-in-south-florida/2205630/

There is NO question that 'community spread' is starting in Florida and you can expect exponential increases to occur as a result. You could not pay me to be in Florida right now. 

Remain at your own risk and remember, when you return that Canada has announced that you are EXPECTED to self-isolate for 14 days after your return to reduce MY risk from you. Thank you.

Money172375, international flights (including from the USA) are now going to be limited to only some airports. This was announced yesterday. It is quite probable that you will not be able to fly back to Niagara Falls. They have not yet announced which airports will be accepting international flights. I expect they will announce that in the next few days. So pay attention, don't just expect to show up at the airport for your flight home as booked, you are going to have to check AFTER they announce which airports are going to be accepting flights to see what they end up changing you to.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We have been in Mexico for the past seven weeks. Scheduled to fly home on Transat from PVR next Thusday.

We have a backup plan in case the airlines cancel. We will head back to Zih and chill out for another few weeks.

My best guess is that we will be on that plane home on Thusday. Lots of talk from others about returning home early but most seem to be staying with their original air reservations and plans.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> There is NO question that 'community spread' is starting in Florida and you can expect exponential increases to occur as a result. You could not pay me to be in Florida right now.


Would you rather work at Toronto airport processing passengers from China?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> We’re in Florida. If it wasn’t for the TV and Twitter, you wouldn’t know anything was going on. Restaurants are full, beaches are packed, retailers are busy. Couldn’t find a seat at the condo pool. restaurants don’t even have sanitizer at the tables or hostess desk. Grocery stores have inventory....no evidence of hoarding or panic. It almost seems too casual. .



where abouts are you money?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

longtimeago:" * You could not pay me to be in Florida right now*"

let the record show that lta was biased against going to Florida a-long-time-ago.
long before covid-19 was ever a thing. no?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Noted from a post in FWF this morning. From our Foreign Affairs minister https://twitter.com/FP_Champagne/status/1238876190460477442

Get your butts back to Canada, especially if not driving.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> where abouts are you money?



Gulf coast. About 15 mins south of Clearwater.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> Noted from a post in FWF this morning. From our Foreign Affairs minister https://twitter.com/FP_Champagne/status/1238876190460477442
> 
> Get your butts back to Canada, especially if not driving.


I suspect two things might be coming.

1. Full travel ban. Not sure what this would mean for Canadians abroad who want to return. I see this as unlikely.

2. I suspect they will only use Toronto and Vancouver for inbound international flights. If you’re from the prairies or out east, you’re gonna need to go to toronto or Vancouver first. This is almost certain. 

We have a family car down here, that normally stays in Florida. We could always drive home, although would rather we take our regularly scheduled flight to Niagara Falls, NY. Our other car is there.

There’s rumours of Trump closing state borders.....California and Washington state as most likely.....I don’t see this happening yet with the current situation.


Off topic. My kids noticed two distinctly different behaviours down here from Canada. Locals have no issue idling their car for more than 30 mins. It’s warm.....80 degrees, but do you really need to idle that long. Secondly, retailers automatically bag everything...even the smallest items. My daughter bought a lip balm and they bagged it. I bought something small separately, and they bagged it separately. We gave both bags back.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Lol I may need to use my boat to get back...

On a serious note allowing Canadians to return only makes sense...barring over seas tourists also makes sense. Approaching peak hysteria I think.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

CBSA agents at land crossings are starting to request anyone (other than trade) entering Canada (including returning Canadians) to self-isolate for 14 days. Eventually it may become an enforced quarantine but that seems extreme at least at all 120 land border crossings. Some are in the middle of nowhere.

Increased screening will begin at select airports and I agree there will likely be entry closure at some of the ~20 International airports. I am speculating maybe half a dozen will remain open.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....again i dont have much faith in this voluntary self-isolation business...
we're talking human beings here...dumb human beings....


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

When all this is said and done, I think travel insurance providers are going to see a spike in purchases from now on. People are starting to realize how a simple trip can get complicated real fast. 

Are there any numbers yet available that show outbound passengers to Florida today vs last year? I would think today is the traditional departure day. We came down on Tuesday (seems like a lifetime ago.......I think that was one day before Trumps speech).

WestJet is still charging over $500 for a round trip flight tomorrow out of Toronto. Does that mean demand is still there, or limited seats? Or have they not re-priced in reaction?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

no numbers, but ithink i saw YYZ on the news last night....very few people....


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> Noted from a post in FWF this morning. From our Foreign Affairs minister https://twitter.com/FP_Champagne/status/1238876190460477442
> 
> Get your butts back to Canada, especially if not driving.


someone made a good comment on that Twitter post, about having the govt, force the airlines to give you your money back. not a travel credit! amen.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> someone made a good comment on that Twitter post, about having the govt, force the airlines to give you your money back. not a travel credit! amen.


Perhaps they will mandate travel insurance in the future. I rented a car in Europe once and the insurance was mandatory. Was actually good piece of mind when driving in a foreign country and parking in unfamiliar places. If everyone had to take travel/medical insurance, would premiums go down and make it more palatable......or would claims go through the roof........talking about normal circumstances, not 2020.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Gulf coast. About 15 mins south of Clearwater.


...ahhh....me ol' stompin' grounds.....:smiley_simmons:


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Perhaps they will mandate travel insurance in the future. I rented a car in Europe once and the insurance was mandatory. Was actually good piece of mind when driving in a foreign country and parking in unfamiliar places. If everyone had to take travel/medical insurance, would premiums go down and make it more palatable......or would claims go through the roof........talking about normal circumstances, not 2020.


somewhere i saw that most travel insurance does not cover "pandemics"...


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

jargey3000 said:


> someone made a good comment on that Twitter post, about having the govt, force the airlines to give you your money back. not a travel credit! amen.


Why? The situation is not of the airline's making, nor are gov't travel advisories of airline's making, nor are constraints imposed by gov'ts on travel restrictions. 

Giving a travel credit and waiving cancellation and re-scheduling fees ARE the right thing to do and that is what I believe they are all doing. I hate it when people want to pass the blame on to someone else. Anyone who has proceeded with travel in the last few weeks SHOULD be on their own given the situation. We have even cancelled flights internal to Canada this past week.

P.S. A traveler can also choose to buy a refundable ticket.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> Why? The situation is not of the airline's making, nor are gov't travel advisories of airline's making, nor are constraints imposed by gov'ts on travel restrictions.
> 
> Giving a travel credit and waiving cancellation and re-scheduling fees ARE the right thing to do and that is what I believe they are all doing. I hate it when people want to pass the blame on to someone else. Anyone who has proceeded with travel in the last few weeks SHOULD be on their own given the situation. We have even cancelled flights internal to Canada this past week.
> 
> P.S. A traveler can also choose to buy a refundable ticket.


..ok, good points alta...
I'd personally just be afraid of:
a) getting sick & kicking the bucket & never getting to use the credit. 
b) the airline going bankrupt before this is over.
Some of us booked last September. I didnt cause the virus either...


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

jargey3000 said:


> ..ok, good points alta...
> I'd personally just be afraid of:
> a) getting sick & kicking the bucket & never getting to use the credit.
> b) the airline going bankrupt before this is over.
> Some of us booked last September. I didnt cause the virus either...


Response...
a) You won't care on a personal level
b) Think trip interruption/cancellation travel insurance will cover that - check your policy
c) That is what Trip Interruption/Cancellation insurance is for. Note insurance providers just the past few weeks are now making covid-19 an exclusion of a forward basis in new contracts, and rightfully so because anyone booking in the past few weeks is quite aware covid-19 is here. An exclusion is not supposed to cover dumb decision making.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Pictures of the Fort Lauderdale airport on Twitter show it is packed to the rafters with people heading out of Florida.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

My wife works p/t at an upscale retirement home, and people are still picking up their parents and taking them out for some reason.

The home had already requested they not do that because of the high risk to other residents, but people just won't stop.

So they have locked the doors and nobody comes in or out without passing security. Trouble is that it might be too late as a couple of residents have flu like symptoms.

They are quarantined and monitored closely, but jeez people. Don't take your 85 year old mom out shopping during a pandemic.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Met quite a few new Canadian families that just arrived for holidays on the beach in Ko Olina today. Easy to spot as they are pretty white. Lots of kids. One guy said his airfare was $179/person....wow!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Why? The situation is not of the airline's making, nor are gov't travel advisories of airline's making, nor are constraints imposed by gov'ts on travel restrictions.
> 
> Giving a travel credit and waiving cancellation and re-scheduling fees ARE the right thing to do and that is what I believe they are all doing. I hate it when people want to pass the blame on to someone else. Anyone who has proceeded with travel in the last few weeks SHOULD be on their own given the situation. We have even cancelled flights internal to Canada this past week.
> 
> P.S. A traveler can also choose to buy a refundable ticket.


Don't worry, the airlines are going to get a govt bailout. They'll survive.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Don't worry, the airlines are going to get a govt bailout. They'll survive.


Yes, I would expect that Air Canada and Westjet will get assistance but I doubt very much that if say Sunwing goes bust in the next couple of weeks that they will. One low cost airline in the UK just went bust a week or two ago because of this and their customers are S*** out of luck. Someone in Cuba or somewhere today that are there on a cheap package holiday may find themselves in that same position next week.

Then if they get the virus while they are stuck there, they will probably also find their Medical Insurance has run out and is not renewable for the virus. There are all kinds of consequences that people just aren't thinking about.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> Met quite a few new Canadian families that just arrived for holidays on the beach in Ko Olina today. Easy to spot as they are pretty white. Lots of kids. One guy said his airfare was $179/person....wow!


That should have been 'met quite a few DUMB Canadian families that just arrived.' I think they will find they have no medical coverage for the virus. Most insurance companies started listing the virus as a 'known risk' about 10 days ago Eder. Which means, it is not covered if they contract it. The same is true for anyone who has just left on a March Break vacation. It isn't 100% of all insurers, so it would need to be checked but it is certainly true today for ALL insurers after the 'non-essential travel advisory.'

How will their $179 airfare look if they end up with a $5-10k hospital bill.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Two plane loads of Brits arrived in Puerto Vallarta yesterday. Some of whom are at our resort. TUI Vacations. We actually booked five nights here through TUI in the UK because their rates were so much lower than anyone else including the hotel direct. Plus at least one plane load from Canada on Sunwing Vacations. Current one way fares to Mexico from Canada are as low as $145......for an obvious reason. Hopefully our Air Transat flight home on Thursday will operate.

Have to agree with LTA about Florida.....it would be last on our list of places to visit. Wintertime or otherwise. We have spent enough time there to reach that conclusion for us, not for others of course.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Irresponsible for people to be heading OUT of country at this time. The first ones to be screaming loudly for national rescue when the borders are closed.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Irresponsible for people to be heading OUT of country at this time. The first ones to be screaming loudly for national rescue when the borders are closed.


I think if they close borders (at least at first) it'll be for foreigners only, Canadians would still be allowed back in just like the US is doing for flights from Europe. Of course trying to get a flight back might be a problem in the future or you may have to go to a specific airport and then drive home from there.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Nearly all the cases in Canada have been brought in by travelers to other countries.

It is past time to shut down unnecessary travel. One way to do that is to require Canadians returning to enter mandatory quarantine. 

As people continue to arrive back infected, it is obvious that people aren't listening to the message. 

Cruise ships are stranded all over the world and a 78 year old Canadian man was taken off a cruise ship and put in hospital in Brazil. He is in critical condition.

What kind of idiot would start a vacation in the middle of a pandemic. Well, our mayor for one.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Well, yes, that is a good point. Citizens always have the right to return, but the conditions of return can be imposed. AB has just said that all returning travelers will have to go into 14 day isolation. Don't know if that means voluntary or 'forced'.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> One way to do that is to require Canadians returning to enter mandatory quarantine.


We have that except for the mandatory part. Enforcement is almost impossible. Most will do it anyway. 

We are still wondering about heading home. We are essentially in self imposed quarantine here. Only social contact is when we buy food or check in at the pro shop if we play golf. Otherwise we get out and walk or bike. At any time we can pack car and drive home. Some friends have already gone. Usually because of pressure from families back home. Main concern would be if border was closed. But they can't really do that for the ~400k Snowbirds in USA.

Life goes on day by day.....


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

We’re heading home early on Tuesday. I’ll let you know what the border on the ground is like. Twitter was reporting today that Pearson was a sieve. No screening and no mention of self-isolation.

Beaches and restaurants still very busy on the Gulf Coast. Walmart shelves were partially stocked, but lots of fresh fruits and vegetables.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> ... Florida had 25 new cases reported today ... There is NO question that 'community spread' is starting in Florida and you can expect exponential increases to occur as a result. You could not pay me to be in Florida right now.


Ontario reported 24 new cases on Saturday and 42 new cases on Sunday so I'd expect the same there as well.




Longtimeago said:


> ... remember, when you return that Canada has announced that you are EXPECTED to self-isolate for 14 days after your return to reduce MY risk from you.


I already do for the flu so I'm not expecting a big deal to do the same now.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Money172375 said:


> ... Beaches and restaurants still very busy on the Gulf Coast. Walmart shelves were partially stocked, but lots of fresh fruits and vegetables.


At the large Walmart super centre in Brunswick GA - there was about twenty eight feet of shelving for water. If you gathered up all the scattered odds and ends, you *might* have filled one foot of shelving from ground to the top shelf. The paper products aisle had about thirty five feet of empty shelves with the only paper being three empty cardboard boxes. The meat section was half full with hamburger taking up something over sixty percent of what was there.

A restaurant in South Carolina had an employee immediately offering hand santizer as one walked in, before one was seated. 


I noticed far just about everyone at least pretending, if not effectively washing their hands in the restaurant/rest stops. On past trips, it was usually 3/4 who walked out without washing their hands.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

cainvest said:


> I think if they close borders (at least at first) it'll be for foreigners only, Canadians would still be allowed back in just like the US is doing for flights from Europe ...


I doubt the source countries would want to hold onto Canadians/treat them ... unless they are already really contagious/sick.


Cheers


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> We’re heading home early on Tuesday. I’ll let you know what the border on the ground is like. Twitter was reporting today that Pearson was a sieve. No screening and no mention of self-isolation.


Most of our friends are heading home. We should be too, but have a commitment that will keep us here for another week. CBC reported this morning that some passengers returning by air were not informed they should self isolate.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

UPDATE for those outside of Canada.

All returning flights to Canada are now going to be funneled through Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal. No other arrival airports. Once there, you are on your own.

Enhanced screening is being put in place at these 4 airports. They will do their best I'm sure but I think you can expect long lines to get past the screening.

Minister Champagne has announced that NO repatriation of Canadians who are stuck will be undertaken by Canada. Your on your own if you can't get back.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

INSURANCE UPDATE. Since the Travel Advisory on Friday against ALL non-essential International travel, Insurers are now treating Covid-19 as a KNOWN RISK'. This changes coverage. Basically it means any Covid-19 related claims will not be covered. 

So if you are wondering whether to head home right now agent99, you may want to call your insurer and see if you are still covered or not if you stay.

One 66 year old retired teacher from Calgary was complaining that after the announcement on Friday he immediately got an e-mail from his insurer telling him that coverage would only continue till March 23. They were allowing a 10 day grace period for people to find their way home.

He was saying, 'we came down here (Florida) at the end of December when this was barely news, what gives them the RIGHT to make this change now?' The answer of course to his question is the LAW gives them the right to make this change. They are not doing anything illegal.

He also said they had planned to come home at the end of March. I'm willing to bet his real issue is that they have paid rent on accommodation till the end of the month and so they will lose a bit of money.

Some insurers may allow time for people to return as this idiots insurer is doing but I would not count on all insurers doing so. CALL and find out if your coverage still applies or if it is now a 'Known Risk'.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> UPDATE for those outside of Canada.
> 
> All returning flights to Canada are now going to be funneled through Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal. No other arrival airports. Once there, you are on your own.


This is the info they are releasing at 1:00 ET time today right?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I think if they close borders (at least at first) it'll be for foreigners only, Canadians would still be allowed back in just like the US is doing for flights from Europe. Of course trying to get a flight back might be a problem in the future or you may have to go to a specific airport and then drive home from there.


No country can deny entry to a citizen of that country. So yes, Canadians will always be allowed to enter. Canada may move to close the border to foreigners as some countries already have and as Trump has done for many countries.

However, any country including Canada can at any time have citizens returning from another country, PUT into quarantine. In other words, they would not be allowed to travel from the border to home and self-isolate, they would be taken from the border to a quarantine facility just as the cruise ship passengers who had to stay in Trenton did.

Don't think, if you're a Canadian you have a RIGHT to be able to driver from the border (or from an airport) to your home. That can change at any time under the Public Health Act. People need to realize this is not as simple as they may think and as Trudeau repeated several times yesterday, 'NOTHING is off the table.'


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Assuming there are still flights OUT of the Florida airports. With gas stations, restaurants and motels closing down, people may not even be able to drive home.

They may deem I-75 an essential roadway and allow a few interchange businesses to remain open, but I wouldn't want to count on it.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Longtimeago said:
> 
> 
> > UPDATE for those outside of Canada.
> ...


The statements from Trudeau will come at 1pm. I expect it will be financial supports.

Things like rerouting and such is likely happening as fast as they can implement it. 

This is good, decide, act, let the announcements follow. If this is the right action, do it now, don't wait hours for the scheduled press conference.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MrMatt said:


> The statements from Trudeau will come at 1pm. I expect it will be financial supports.
> 
> Things like rerouting and such is likely happening as fast as they can implement it.
> 
> This is good, decide, act, let the announcements follow. If this is the right action, do it now, don't wait hours for the scheduled press conference.


Ya, have to wait until 1:00 to find out the details.

CTV says "some" flights will be rerouted to the 4 airports, not all.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> This is the info they are releasing at 1:00 ET time today right?


They have released the locations, just not the specific time it will go into effect. I expect it will go into effect today or tomorrow. 

I don't think those still outside of the country realize how the public's opinion of them is going to became very annoyed or even angry. People are now beginning to realize that those who are now returning are possibly endangering OUR health. That makes it personal for people in how they look at those returning. Especially those who still chose to go on a March Break.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We arrive home in Calgary Thursday PM. We expect long lines to clear customs/immigration and we will self quarantine for 14 days. Our neighbours are shopping for us. Should be fine.....DW bought a big packet of TP and a bottle of Tylonal at Costco before we left. I picked up a case of red wine at CoOp. Lots of food in the freezer plus cans of beans etc! 

Our fiends are doing the same but arriving from OZ via HNL and YVR. I suspect that they will end up rescheduling their YVR-YYC connection because of the lines in Vancouver.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Ya, have to wait until 1:00 to find out the details.
> 
> CTV says "some" flights will be rerouted to the 4 airports, not all.


I detect a note of wishful thinking there cainvest. Got someone you know that it will impact? As far as I know it will be ALL flights at some point. There may be a 'transition' period where some flights already in the air etc. are allowed to continue on to their planned destination airport but at some point ALL will only be allowed to land at one of the 4 airports, otherwise the announcement would make no sense at all.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

If your car is in Winnipeg or London, but your flight lands in Toronto, there is a problem here.

They announced limits were coming days ago.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Hope one of CMF mod return home safely from ... Cuba(?)


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> I detect a note of wishful thinking there cainvest. Got someone you know that it will impact? As far as I know it will be ALL flights at some point.


No wishful thinking, just read the headline that said "some" but we'll see at 1:00 ET today. 

No point in guessing LTA, you don't know if it'll be an ALL flights, might just be from "hot spot" countries like Europe, China, etc.

The only person I know of is j4b, not sure he's back yet, he hasn't posted.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

_I don't think those still outside of the country realize how the public's opinion of them is going to became very annoyed or even angry. People are now beginning to realize that those who are now returning are possibly endangering OUR health. That makes it personal for people in how they look at those returning. Especially those who still chose to go on a March Break._

...problem is , if I'm out in a store , or mall, or lined up at the bank,,,how do I identify "these people"///?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Wow, Tim Hortons just said they are closing in-store seating at most locations in Canada!


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> ...problem is , if I'm out in a store , or mall, or lined up at the bank,,,how do I identify "these people"///?


You can't so take steps to protect yourself!


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> I detect a note of wishful thinking there cainvest. Got someone you know that it will impact? As far as I know it will be ALL flights at some point. There may be a 'transition' period where some flights already in the air etc. are allowed to continue on to their planned destination airport but at some point ALL will only be allowed to land at one of the 4 airports, otherwise the announcement would make no sense at all.


Well, even though it doesn't make sense to you it isn't ALL flights. 

As always, best to report the facts and not embellish to spread fear or cause confusion.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Well, even though it doesn't make sense to you it isn't ALL flights.
> 
> As always, best to report the facts and not embellish to spread fear or cause confusion.


Actually it still isn't really clear what he just announced.

He said we are closing our borders to foreigners but also said, not to U.S. Citizens. Does that mean any US citizen or does it in fact mean truck drivers who have to cross for business to continue? Don't know. Allowing US tourists to cross would seem to defeat the purpose to me of closing the border to all other foreigners but still allowing US tourists to cross who are now probably our biggest travel spread risk group.

He said the airlines are being told to check for symptoms and not board anyone with symptoms. How will that work and does it include ALL flights from anywhere or only certain areas? 

He did say all flights well be routed to the 4 airports except from Mexico, the Caribbean and the USA. So the woman I saw on a tv clip this morning who is in Costa Rica will end up in Toronto presumably. Costa Rica is not in the Caribbean. 

Now consider Europe or SEA where a lot of Canadians go in winter and no doubt are there now. If our borders are closed to all foreigners except those mentioned above, who will be on the planes? Just Canadians returning presumably. Which airlines then are going to be flying near empty planes back to Canada? The result of the ban on foreigners entering in that regard has to be that the airlines will be flying far more limited numbers of flights from Europe and elsewhere. Which flights and from where? Airlines will not have passengers asking to fly to these places so they sure aren't going to have flights going just to haul back a few Canadians.

If you are now in Europe and want to return, you may have to make your way to another country to get on a flight that will still exist. What if you are not allowed as a foreigner to move from the country you are in to the country in which a flight is still operating? I foresee people getting 'stuck' where they are. Add on top of that that their travel medical insurance is likely to expire in regards to Covid-19. 

You have to think through each and every factor that such announcements make. Just this morning, as advised by our health authorities, I went to get a prescription renewed so that if I need to self-isolate, I will not run out. The pharmacist informed me that they could not renew the prescription until I had only a 10 day supply left from my previous prescription. That's a conflict between the message we are being given and the existing system which does not allow for the change. These kinds of simple, practical, existing factors will happen with all kinds of things including travel.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

The message the other day by Doctor Tam and which she has repeated is 'come back while you still can'. It was a BIG message. There are all kinds of problems that are now going to arise that will face any Canadian who is now trying to return to Canada, we just don't know what all the problems are going to be yet.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> _I don't think those still outside of the country realize how the public's opinion of them is going to became very annoyed or even angry. People are now beginning to realize that those who are now returning are possibly endangering OUR health. That makes it personal for people in how they look at those returning. Especially those who still chose to go on a March Break._
> 
> ...problem is , if I'm out in a store , or mall, or lined up at the bank,,,how do I identify "these people"///?


You're not going to be able to unfortunately jargey3000 but their neighbours, family and friends are. They will apply the pressure to self-isolate. I'm more concerned about the tourists that have still been entering as was pointed out earlier.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> _I don't think those still outside of the country realize how the public's opinion of them is going to became very annoyed or even angry. People are now beginning to realize that those who are now returning are possibly endangering OUR health. That makes it personal for people in how they look at those returning. Especially those who still chose to go on a March Break._
> 
> ...problem is , if I'm out in a store , or mall, or lined up at the bank,,,how do I identify "these people"///?


It's not just 'these' people. My city had it's first cases of community transmission. That is what started our State of Local emergency. There are people that didn't travel and somehow got infected, and now are infecting others. 

As this time in my City, one has to assume that they could be a carrier and the other people are the same. This means taking social isolation seriously, sanitizing the areas they touch, frequent hand washing, and cleaning of surfaces.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

sags said:


> Assuming there are still flights OUT of the Florida airports. With gas stations, restaurants and motels closing down, people may not even be able to drive home.
> 
> They may deem I-75 an essential roadway and allow a few interchange businesses to remain open, but I wouldn't want to count on it.


Still no visible evidence that anything is wrong here on the gulf coast. Dropped by the community pool yesterday and I counted 33 people on the deck or in the water. Still lineups at restaurants during happy hour.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

cainvest said:


> You can't so take steps to protect yourself!


No need to go to the bank....some businesses are already refusing physical cash with the thought it can carry the virus.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Reporters are hitting Deputy PM Freeland hard during the news conference, about Americans being let into Canada.

The State of Pennsylvania has ordered all non-essential businesses closed. That means stores, restaurants, gas stations, hotels,......almost all businesses closed.

Many States will be doing the same and it will happen without notice. The Governors were angry after their meeting with Trump and are going public about it.

Trump is in a corner and made to look incompetent. I suspect he will institute a national ban to try to look competent.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well our area seems business as usual...even Costco was back to normal volumes yesterday. Went to happy hour at a local restaurant business seemed normal. 

We are considering just staying here if we can get wifey's prescriptions mailed out...seems a lot less hysteria than the main land and landing in Vancouver to be herded around by rabid customs lines has little appeal.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Money172375 said:


> Still no visible evidence that anything is wrong here on the gulf coast. Dropped by the community pool yesterday and I counted 33 people on the deck or in the water. Still lineups at restaurants during happy hour.


I believe you Money172375. Normally I do not watch any US news stations but last night I watched a 1 hour local Boston news program on the Fox network. I have to say it was an eye opener. 

First up was the 'shocking' (their word not mine) news that all restaurants and bars were to close effective today except for take-out orders. I don't know about you but I would not find that news shocking if it happened here in Ontario today or in any other Province in Canada. It's been a foreseeable step for weeks now. Following up on that they reported restaurant and bar owners did not know what was going to happen in regards to their staff being paid and even if they would be able to weather the closings or might end up going out of business. I don't know about you but I have known for weeks that our Federal and Provincial governments have been announcing steps and funds that are being made to insure people will not go without a paycheque and small businesses would be provided with assistance as well if needed.

In the same announcement by the governor, schools will be closed for 3 weeks. That raised the question of school lunches which apparently a great number of children count on for a decent meal every day. Again this issue seems to have come as a surprise.

All of the above took up about 5 minutes of air time. Then they spent 15 minutes talking about whether Tom Brady (Patriots quarterback) might go with another team.

Overall my impression watching for an hour is that they live in a bubble. If something isn't happening immediately around them, they are unaware of what is happening in say the State next door. 

Clearly, we can see the USA is not reacting fast enough or aggressively enough to this and at this point I now feel sorry for the American people who are going to end up dying from this as a result.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> Reporters are hitting Deputy PM Freeland hard during the news conference, about Americans being let into Canada.
> 
> The State of Pennsylvania has ordered all non-essential businesses closed. That means stores, restaurants, gas stations, hotels,......almost all businesses closed.
> 
> ...


The problem we have is that we are so intertwined with the USA that to close our borders is almost the same as cutting our own throats. Goods and services simply have to cross that border every day.

I do think that while it is a growing concern, tourists are not likely to just be crossing when our CBSA agents will be telling them they need to self-isolate if they enter Canada. Many will simply turn around and drive back home. We have to try and keep it all in perspective. But at the same time, in answering that questions just 5 minutes ago, Dr. Tam stated that we expect the USA to be managing the issue and that we will be monitoring that every day. In other words, if it really goes ballistic in the USA, we may end up closing that border at some point.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I believe you Money172375. Normally I do not watch any US news stations but last night I watched a 1 hour local Boston news program on the Fox network. I have to say it was an eye opener.


I live near Boston and watched the local news lately. The governor of MA declared an emergency early last week and put out guidelines for social distancing. This weekend the bars in Boston were overflowing with lineups down the streets

Boston Mayor was very disappointed in this action and had to impose bans on lineups and crowds. We live in the land of the free but we are starting to realize that people can't necessarily be trusted to make decisions for themselves.



> This isn’t about you, this is about your fellow Bostonians. It’s about your grandmothers and grandparents. It’s about your neighbors who are sick. Social distancing is not a vague, wishful strategy, it’s backed by science and data.


In other news - 2nd confirmed case in my neighborhood today - elderly couple at risk. The wife is a teacher and was confirmed last week. Public schools shutting down across the state tomorrow


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

i generally like americans, but the comment above about them "living in a bubble" hits home..
its been my experience that the vast majority of them have little interest, or knowledge of, the "outside world"
if the US has to rely on the actions & co-operation of the " average joe" to stem this tide......they're screwed


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It should be easy to identify March breakers who went south. They will probably have a tan.

But there are lots of people like ourselves who have been out of the country for the past 2 or 3 month to avoid the cold and the snow. Returning by air and by car.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

When I worked for TD, the business continuity guide at each branch was 4-5 inches thick. Included procedures for bomb threats, power outages, network issues, overcrowding. It was quite robust.

I’m a little surprised At governments response, especially in light of SARS, H1N1, 9/11 etc. You would think you would flip to the page titled Global Pandemic, then across down to the section on “infections of 100+ in your area”.......and there would be a bunch of steps. I know this is unprecedented, but Italy, Asia, Europe and now North America are basically doing what the Chinese did. I think we all know what needs to happen here....a national lockdown for 2-3 weeks. 

Look at the trends.....seems quite repetitive. 
https://www.ft.com/__origami/servic...le-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700

I’m surprised it’s taking this long.......I’ve always been a believer that health care should be national anyway. This mishmash of procedures and policies is causing confusion. I still fear the worst is to come in North America. It’s hard to believe that one week ago, the experts and professionals were giving an all clear to travel, and now borders are being closed.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Well, even though it doesn't make sense to you it isn't ALL flights.
> 
> As always, best to report the facts and not embellish to spread fear or cause confusion.


Agree 100%. Solution is to ignore such posts.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> The State of Pennsylvania has ordered all non-essential businesses closed. That means stores, restaurants, *gas stations, hotels*,......almost all businesses closed.
> 
> Many States will be doing the same and it will happen without notice.


Please confirm if the items highlighted above are based on a reliable source. If so, please provide a link.

This is what I have read, for Pa: https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020...orylines&utm_content=news&utm_term=4977956002

This from same site: *"Groceries, gas stations, pharmacies and some other essential businesses are not being told to close."*

and in NY: https://www.syracuse.com/coronaviru...y-nj-ct-closing-tonight-over-coronavirus.html

*"Essential businesses like supermarkets, gas stations and pharmacies will remain open."*

Please don't post fake news in these uncertain times.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> No need to go to the bank....some businesses are already refusing physical cash with the thought it can carry the virus.


Even credit cards are being refused on tolls roads in Pa.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Just drive thru without stopping...I forget what lane is the one for those using monthly passes. Being out of country there will be no repercussions....same for Florida, Conn.Cali etc.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

agent99 said:


> Please confirm if the items highlighted above are based on a reliable source. If so, please provide a link.
> 
> This is what I have read, for Pa: https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2020...orylines&utm_content=news&utm_term=4977956002
> 
> ...


I don't know which news website I read it, but you are right. I read they are closing all non-essential businesses. I didn't realize how long their list of essential businesses is. 

Pet stores ...laundermats....public transportation....LOL. Their list of essential services makes the shut down basically useless.

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/co...us-fight-what-is-a-nonessential-business.html


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

New announcements are being made daily now. It's becoming impossible to try and keep up with what is happening where.

Keeping to the topic of this post to try and help forum members who are outside of Canada, a few new items I have heard are.

Yesterday, Trudeau reiterated the message that you should come home NOW. I believe part of that message is that you will find it increasingly difficult to do so even on a daily basis and that you may find yourself stuck somewhere you do not want to be IF you catch the virus and need medical attention AND do not have valid travel health insurance. I hope all of you have checked with your insurance provider after reading yesterday that they are shutting down coverage for COVID-19.

Also unsaid I believe in the message to come home now is that people may find themselves in a situation where local healthcare is having to triage patients as is happening in Italy. Doctors there are now having to literally make decisions as to who will live and who will die because of a shortage of equipment like ventilators. I have zero confidence that the same will not happen in the USA in particular. If it does, 'foreigners' may be left sucking the hind tit.

Also new, apparently travellers are finding airfares spiking. I suspect that is not because the airlines are trying to purposely up their prices to take advantage of customers but because people no longer make the decisions as to a given airfare, computer algorithms do that now and if there is increased demand, the algorithm decides they can increase a price.

Canada is offering loans of up to $5000 for those trying to return and facing a financial problem doing so. Note, they are LOANS, not a handout.

Westjet has just announced they are suspending all international flights as of March 23. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...said,partnership with the Canadian government.

That includes the USA. Obviously, anyone with a flight already booked with them after that date is going to be left to their own devices.

I suggest paying less attention to sags posting an unintentional error. Fake news is intentional, sags error was not intentional. Don't get sidetracked and take your eye of the ball here. 

Any of us can self-justify anything including ignoring advice to return home. To avoid doing that I suggest you ask 3 people you believe have some understanding and common sense about this and then follow their advice, NOT your own self-justifying thinking. 

My advice to those here who are currently abroad is to get home as soon as you can. You do not want to be stuck in another country, any other country, if you contract the virus. Canada so far is doing a good job of dealing with this and it is the safest place for you to be right now.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Westjet has just announced they are suspending all international flights as of March 23. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...said,partnership with the Canadian government.
> 
> That includes the USA. Obviously, anyone with a flight already booked with them after that date is going to be left to their own devices.


Just to clarify, WestJet will still have flights to bring Canadians home after March 23. Their goal is to stop Canadians from leaving right now.

From the cbc link above ... 
_ After that, the airline said it will operate rescue and repatriation flights in partnership with the Canadian government._

So it'll likely be a lot less hassle to come home before the March 23 than it will be afterwards.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Just to clarify, WestJet will still have flights to bring Canadians home after March 23. Their goal is to stop Canadians from leaving right now.
> 
> From the cbc link above ...
> _ After that, the airline said it will operate rescue and repatriation flights in partnership with the Canadian government._
> ...


NO, they will not have flights cainvest, only the government will decide if they have flights. All Westjet is saying is they will co-operate with the government if asked to do so. That sentence is a public relations comment only to say, 'we will be good corporate citizens if requested'.

The federal government has already indicated they do not intent to repatriate any Canadians who are stuck abroad. They are telling them to find a 'commercial' means of getting home and are offering loans of up to $5000 to help do so. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/feds-of...ncial assistance program,loan of up to $5,000.

Read between the lines cainvest. They will not 'rule out' a repatriation flight and of course, 'all things are still on the table' but the statement by Westjet re repatriation flights is meaningless. The government might arrange another repatriation flight if another cruise ship type scenario develops but they aren't going to be arranging flights to half a dozen airports in Florida to bring back snowbirds. I don't know what will happen with March Break vacationers who went on a 2 week rather than a 1 week break using Westjet. Perhaps those flights will not be included in Westjet's stopping of all international flights on the 23rd. But they certainly have NOT said that.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> NO, they will not have flights cainvest, only the government will decide if they have flights. All Westjet is saying is they will co-operate with the government if asked to do so. That sentence is a public relations comment only to say, 'we will be good corporate citizens if requested'.


I believe that's exactly what I posted ???? Read the line below the "From the cbc link above".


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I believe that's exactly what I posted ???? Read the line below the "From the cbc link above".


NO, that is NOT exactly what you posted cainvest. You posted, "Just to clarify, WestJet will still have flights to bring Canadians home after March 23. ...... the airline said it will operate rescue and repatriation flights in partnership with the Canadian government.

So it'll likely be a lot less hassle to come home before the March 23 than it will be afterwards."

So I will say it again, they will not have flights and no one has said they WILL operate repatriation flights. It will not just be less hassle to return before the 23rd it may be next to impossible to return after that date UNLESS the Canadian government decides to operate a repatriation flight and they have already indicated they do not intend to do so.

Your comment gave a false sense of 'there will be flights', which can lead people to an easier self-justification of staying where they are. They don't need to be given help in self-justifying a bad decision, they need help to be UNABLE to self-justify a bad decision. Again I will ask if you have a personal horse in this returning home as soon as possible issue.

If someone is planning on flying home with Westjet after the 23rd, they better think again. That's the point.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> NO, that is NOT exactly what you posted cainvest. You posted, "Just to clarify, WestJet will still have flights to bring Canadians home after March 23. ...... the airline said it will operate rescue and repatriation flights in partnership with the Canadian government.
> 
> So it'll likely be a lot less hassle to come home before the March 23 than it will be afterwards."
> 
> ...


I see you want to continue your "doom and gloom" embellishments LTA, continue on then! 

BTW, for the second time (since again, you don't appear to read my responses) ... I have to no "personal horse" (whatever that means) in the returning home.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just moments ago, Trudeau answered a question re Canadians who want to return home. As was predictable, he said, 'nothing is off the table'. And at the same time again re-iterated loans of up to $5000 are being made available to help people return OR to help them pay for staying where they are until they can find a way home.

Read between the lines. They are not going to come up with some way to bring back any significant number of the 3 MILLION Canadians who are abroad at any give time. It simply would not be possible to do so. 

Those who are abroad and do intend to come home at some point, also need to keep in mind that they will NOT be allowed to board any international flight to Canada, including from the USA if they are symptomatic and certainly not if they have been tested positive somewhere already. Airlines flying into Canada are being instructed to screen and are being told to SIGN documents regarding having done so.

We have neighbours on one side of us who are currently in Florida. No sign of them returning yet. Knowing them as I do, I'll bet they have paid rent to the end of the month and knowing him (not her), he will not leave till then. IF they get sick between now and then, they won't get back across the border. If they had come back last week and went into self-isolation for 2 weeks, I could have gone and bought groceries etc. for them. That can't happen now.

It's not 'doom and gloom' I am posting cainvest it is 'real world' I am posting. I'll say again, all kinds of things people are not thinking of are going to happen the more they delay their return.

The EU is now talking about closing all their borders in Europe to foreigners. Do you realize what that means for a Canadian trying to return home? If Westjet are suspending all international flights, Air Canada is reducing flights by 50% and may also follow in Westjet's footprints and suspend all international flights, how will they get home? If Lufthansa is still flying from say Frankfurt to Toronto, will they fly a flight when only Canadians are allowed to get on it since no foreigners are now being allowed entry? If they do still fly that flight, how will someone in a non-EU country get to Frankfurt if the EU has closed all their borders. Already countries within the EU have closed some borders between each other. How does someone stuck in Italy get to Frankfurt when the borders are closed to them?

This is a Florida snowbird thread but also applies to Canadians anywhere. The message I am sending is constant, come home while you still can. What message does anyone think we should be sending on this thread? Don't worry about it?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> It's not 'doom and gloom' I am posting cainvest it is 'real world' I am posting.
> 
> This is a Florida snowbird thread but also applies to Canadians anywhere. The message I am sending is constant, come home while you still can. What message does anyone think we should be sending on this thread? Don't worry about it?


As I said previously -> So it'll likely be a lot less hassle to come home before the March 23 than it will be afterwards.

Sunwing sent 4 flights out today to get Canadians back due to those countries possibly closing their borders very soon. For the rest of the Sunwing destinations I would imagine it'll take some time to get them all back, likely past March 23rd would be my guess.

Yes, it's a good idea to come home now but I can't see Canada "leaving" people stranded with little or no hope of coming home.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

US cases.....infected 4226....deaths 75

Canada cases....infected 432....deaths 4. (extrapolate for 10X population = 4320 infected.....deaths 40).

The infections rate appears about right, but their death rate is almost double of that in Canada.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> As I said previously -> So it'll likely be a lot less hassle to come home before the March 23 than it will be afterwards.
> 
> Sunwing sent 4 flights out today to get Canadians back due to those countries possibly closing their borders very soon. For the rest of the Sunwing destinations I would imagine it'll take some time to get them all back, likely past March 23rd would be my guess.
> 
> Yes, it's a good idea to come home now but I can't see Canada "leaving" people stranded with little or no hope of coming home.


There are 3 million Canadians abroad cainvest. I would say it is INEVITABLE that some will be 'left stranded'. Those that put off the decision to come home and then suddenly one day wake up when it gets really bad where they are and say, 'hey, get me home' are indeed going to get a rude awakening. It's naive to think otherwise.

There are plenty of stupid people in this world including Canadians. They are also often the same people who turn around after they have gotten themselves into a jam and say, 'hey government, it's your job to take care of me.'


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> US cases.....infected 4226....deaths 75
> 
> Canada cases....infected 432....deaths 4. (extrapolate for 10X population = 4320 infected.....deaths 40).
> 
> The infections rate appears about right, but their death rate is almost double of that in Canada.


I don't believe the USA has any idea of how many cases they actually have sags. Nor of even how many deaths they actually have. 'He died of pneumonia' or 'common flu' may well be Covid-19 deaths incorrectly reported. I have very little faith in the reporting processes in the USA. It is known that not all cases are even reported to the CDC and it is only the CDC numbers you are quoting. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

Who then is reporting TOTAL number of cases, answer, no one.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> US cases.....infected 4226....deaths 75
> 
> Canada cases....infected 432....deaths 4. (extrapolate for 10X population = 4320 infected.....deaths 40).
> 
> The infections rate appears about right, but their death rate is almost double of that in Canada.


We don't know total cases, so the stats are all misleading to an extent. 

Im more concerned with the recovery rate.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Three MILLION Canadians abroad? That means nearly 10% of Canada's population is outside the country (well 8.33%) can that be right? Where does that statistic come from?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Medical insurers are about to cancel policies for snowbirds



> A number of medical insurance providers have advised clients that their coverage will end 10 days after Ottawa issued the advisory warning against all non-essential travel outside of Canada. That means many medical insurance plans will stop covering treatment and procedures for snowbirds on *Monday, March 23.*


Time to GTFO snowbirds


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Three MILLION Canadians abroad? That means nearly 10% of Canada's population is outside the country (well 8.33%) can that be right? Where does that statistic come from?


Sunwing put out this number today ... 

_Sunwing, which specializes in flying visitors to sun destinations, said Monday that it’s cancelled all southbound flights from March 17 to April 9 to focus on “repatriating customers in destination,” which it estimates at 100,000 passengers._


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Back in Canada! Arrived at Clearwater airport. Absolutely no lines. Checked bags. No lines at TSA. Although my daughter was flagged for extra screening - what causes that?

Landed in Niagara Falls, NY. Love this airport! Picked up our car, bags were out in 10 mins. Stopped at Walmart to buy groceries. Very limited fresh meat. Virtually no dried pasta. Thin pickings for canned food. Lots of fresh veg/fruits. Picked up what we could. 

Drove to Lewiston crossing.......we were the ONLY car there. 3 gates opened. Breezed through. “Any symptoms, any booze, any tobacco”. No, yes, no. “Off you go”. We weren’t with the guard more than 60 seconds. No cautions or advice to self-isolate. If cases explode here, you’ll know why.

We still plan to self isolate.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

_If cases explode here, you’ll know why._

I am thinking they already are. Canada is pretty much on the same trajectory as the US, but at a 1/10th scale in numbers.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> Back in Canada! Arrived at Clearwater airport. Absolutely no lines. Checked bags. No lines at TSA. Although my daughter was flagged for extra screening - what causes that?
> 
> Landed in Niagara Falls, NY. Love this airport! Picked up our car, bags were out in 10 mins. Stopped at Walmart to buy groceries. Very limited fresh meat. Virtually no dried pasta. Thin pickings for canned food. Lots of fresh veg/fruits. Picked up what we could.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting . That really doesn't make a lot of sense. We have car packed and will be heading home tomorrow. earlier than original plan. Hope the cleaning crew enjoys the wine, beer and other stuff we are leaving behind! We are expecting to have to self-isolate. Need the time to do our taxes! Sounds like the word re isolation is slow getting out to land crossings.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Back in Canada! Arrived at Clearwater airport. Absolutely no lines. Checked bags. No lines at TSA. Although my daughter was flagged for extra screening - what causes that?
> 
> Landed in Niagara Falls, NY. Love this airport! Picked up our car, bags were out in 10 mins. Stopped at Walmart to buy groceries. Very limited fresh meat. Virtually no dried pasta. Thin pickings for canned food. Lots of fresh veg/fruits. Picked up what we could.
> 
> ...


That's the problem, the government is lying.
There are many reports that they simply aren't even doing the basic screening question they should be doing, that's why Quebec put Ministry of Health staff to screen.

I understand that it's a crisis, but it is disgusting that they're not actually doing what they said they're doing.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I have family coming in from Florida by air tomorrow and more by land on Saturday. Will keep you posted.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I have family flying from Florida to Niagara Falls on Saturday. The plan was to have their daughter drive from toronto to NY to pick them up.
Looks like the border is being closed as per Trump tweet. I don’t think the daughter will be allowed entry now.

Can you walk across the border at Lewiston or Rainbow bridge? I guess they’ll need to take a taxi to the border, walk across and try to find their daughter.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Three MILLION Canadians abroad? That means nearly 10% of Canada's population is outside the country (well 8.33%) can that be right? Where does that statistic come from?


At any given time there are 3 million give or take Rusty O'Toole. That includes tourists, business travellers, Canadians living and working abroad.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

m3s said:


> Medical insurers are about to cancel policies for snowbirds
> 
> 
> 
> Time to GTFO snowbirds


Your a few days late with that news m3s but it is correct. Anyone who ends up stuck abroad now will have to put their hand in their own pocket if they need treatment for the virus.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Sunwing put out this number today ...
> 
> _Sunwing, which specializes in flying visitors to sun destinations, said Monday that it’s cancelled all southbound flights from March 17 to April 9 to focus on “repatriating customers in destination,” which it estimates at 100,000 passengers._


Porter Airlines and Air Transat have now announced their plans to suspend flights. Porter by Friday and Air Transat a phased shutdown. Airlines all around the world are doing much the same.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

agent99 said:


> Thanks for posting . That really doesn't make a lot of sense. We have car packed and will be heading home tomorrow. earlier than original plan. Hope the cleaning crew enjoys the wine, beer and other stuff we are leaving behind! We are expecting to have to self-isolate. Need the time to do our taxes! Sounds like the word re isolation is slow getting out to land crossings.


You'll be happy to hear that Trudeau has just announced this morning a massive financial aid package. One part of that is that tax payments will not have to be made until July 30. I'm not clear on if you still have to file your return by the end of April or not though, he didn't say.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Money172375 said:


> I have family flying from Florida to Niagara Falls on Saturday. The plan was to have their daughter drive from toronto to NY to pick them up.
> Looks like the border is being closed as per Trump tweet. I don’t think the daughter will be allowed entry now.
> 
> Can you walk across the border at Lewiston or Rainbow bridge? I guess they’ll need to take a taxi to the border, walk across and try to find their daughter.


There are exemptions to the non-essential travel closing Money172375. The daughter should try to make some calls to see if she will be allowed to cross, pick up, come back. I would wait till Friday to call though. Give the CBSA time to have the details ironed out and understood by border agents.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> There are exemptions to the non-essential travel closing Money172375. The daughter should try to make some calls to see if she will be allowed to cross, pick up, come back. I would wait till Friday to call though. Give the CBSA time to have the details ironed out and understood by border agents.



Well, the ground guards didn’t ask me to self isolate.....how long does this game of telephone take?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Money172375 said:


> Back in Canada! ...


Nice that you had a smooth trip back.




Money172375 said:


> ... Drove to Lewiston crossing.......we were the ONLY car there. 3 gates opened. Breezed through. “Any symptoms, any booze, any tobacco”. No, yes, no. “Off you go”. We weren’t with the guard more than 60 seconds. No cautions or advice to self-isolate ...


Interesting ... we crossed at the Hill Island crossing in the thousand islands area on Monday around 10pm. About five cars and one transport truck while we were there.

They took so long with the American plated car in front of us that my sister-in-law wanted to switch lanes. I'd say though too double the time I've usually had at this crossing. After the usual "what did you buy, are you bringing back cigarettes/alchol" they said they were concerned about covid-19 and asked each person if they had any/all of fever, coughing or difficulty breathing". When we said no, they said to monitor and if any of the symptoms showed up to self-isolate and avoid doctors office/emergency. We were to all the info line for review with the possibility of testing. Two fact sheets were given.




Money172375 said:


> ... We still plan to self isolate.


We are self-isolating as well.

All employers for the three of us employed are insisting on it as well.


Cheers


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> So I will say it again, they will not have flights and no one has said they WILL operate repatriation flights. It will not just be less hassle to return before the 23rd it may be next to impossible to return after that date UNLESS the Canadian government decides to operate a repatriation flight and they have already indicated they do not intend to do so.


Just an FYI ... looks like some flights are still bringing people back after March 23rd.

_Sunwing said it expects to have all of its customers, most of whom are at Mexican or Caribbean resorts, back home by Monday._

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/sunwing-offers-free-seats-repatriation-180751469.html


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

The American airlines seems to think they will have a wide range of flights from Miami to Toronto. I did see a WestJet flight but on closer inspection, it was a code share.

WestJet and Air Canada's web sites for the same date on a one way flight had nothing listed, theirs or a code share.


Cheers


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Flew into Calgary from Puerto Vallarta today. PV airport was a zoo but lines moved quickly. Surprised that there were a few empty seats on this Transat flight. I heard the flight attendant say that they flew down empty.

We were through security, etc and on the curb in 15 minutes max. But...We only have carry on and we have Nexus. CBSA asked us health questions, Alberta Health had desks set up outside for Alberts residents. Good info and several well designed pamphlets to take home.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Just an FYI ... looks like some flights are still bringing people back after March 23rd.
> 
> _Sunwing said it expects to have all of its customers, most of whom are at Mexican or Caribbean resorts, back home by Monday._
> 
> https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/sunwing-offers-free-seats-repatriation-180751469.html


Yes they will have returning flights till they bring back all those they took out. They are also offering any empty seats on those flights to others who are in a given location and are looking for a way back to Canada. But they will NOT be operating any flights AFTER that in 'repatriate' Canadians unless the government contracts them to do so. They have just announced they are going to be laying off all 470 of their pilots after these last flights.

It is ALREADY basically impossible for many Canadians around the world to find a way home. As I have tried to tell you cainvest, you need to read between the lines of what is being said. There is no way the government is going to try and repatriate up to 3 million Canadians abroad. You won't find Trudeau or Champagne coming flat out and saying so, but that is the reality. You will hear, 'we are continuing to do all we can to help Canadians who want to return to Canada'. What you should be hearing is, 'you're on your own.'

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ernment-help-amid-coronavirus-chaos-1.4860933

When they announced the $5000 to help Canadians return OR meet costs where they were, that was the real message.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I doubt there's still three million Canadians still abroad, based on those I am hearing about who have cancelled trips or returned early. It would be interesting to get an update from the gov't though.

Where the gov't may have trouble sticking to "you are on your own" are the countries that stopped travel around the same time as Trudeau called for a return to Canada.


Cheers


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> I doubt there's still three million Canadians still abroad, based on those I am hearing about who have cancelled trips or returned early. It would be interesting to get an update from the gov't though.
> 
> Where the gov't may have trouble sticking to "you are on your own" are the countries that stopped travel around the same time as Trudeau called for a return to Canada.
> 
> ...


I don't think they will have trouble sticking to 'you're on your own' at all Eclectic12. I think they will have no real CHOICE but to stick to it while at the same time never actually coming out and saying so. 

Consider it from a purely practical standpoint. If there are 10 people stuck in a place who want to come home but from where there are no flights going out and any bordering countries have no entry to foreigners in place, what choice would our government have? Send a 'repatriation flight' to get 10 people? Then do that for every 10 people stuck in every place they might be stuck and do it again for every 10 people who decide next week that they too want to come home? 

At any given time they say there are 3 million. No doubt at present it is not that high but neither is it just a handful. Even if it is only half the number, there is no practical way to bring them all home under the current circumstances. As the link I provided shows you people are stuck in all kinds of places like, "McGill University professor Anthony Williams-Jones, travelling in Morocco with five students, told CTV News they were “left to their own devices” after speaking to the Canadian embassy." 

When the government announced 'here's $5k' that message was clear to me. The government does not have a CHOICE. All they can advise people who are stuck is to 'shelter in place as best you can.'


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Update, apparently there are 4500 Canadians stuck in Morocco and Trudeau has just announced they will be sending repatriation flights for them. Just why there is such a large cluster in Morocco I don't know but apparently that is the case. 

So some are gonna get lucky Eclectic12 but I still wouldn't hold me breath for a lot of others in other places. It does indicate though just how 3 million can be abroad at any one time Eclectic12. Who would have thought there were 4500 in Morocco.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Probably Canadians who are resident in Morocco. Or maybe snowbirds (people with family connections to Morocco that were wintering there). If people were long-term staying (students, etc.) in a country they should stay in place.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Morocco's land borders have been locked by military to keep terrorists out. I'm guessing Spain locked down the border with Morocco and Canadians found themselves with no way out. Morocco is one of the few remaining monarchies that maintains power (Saudi, UAE, Vatican..)


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I don't think they will have trouble sticking to 'you're on your own' at all Eclectic12. I think they will have no real CHOICE but to stick to it while at the same time never actually coming out and saying so ... Update, apparently there are 4500 Canadians stuck in Morocco and Trudeau has just announced they will be sending repatriation flights for them ...


What was that about sticking to "you're on your own" with no repatriation flights? :rolleyes2:
(That didn't take long for an exception by the gov't!!)




Longtimeago said:


> ... Consider it from a purely practical standpoint. If there are 10 people stuck in a place who want to come home but from where there are no flights going out and any bordering countries have no entry to foreigners in place, what choice would our government have? Send a 'repatriation flight' to get 10 people?


Practically speaking ... reports are that some of said countries have 300+ Canadians where the local gov't have said exceptions allowing foreigners to leave could be arranged but only at the request/negotiation of the home country.

You have Canadians who registered with the Canadian consulate months before going, were not notified by consulate of the closing of the local borders and were notified to leave ASAP *after* they'd been in line at the airport six of their nine hour wait to find out there no seats left before the deadline. The military is patrolling to enforce the quarantine/curfew.

Are you surprised they are questions why there's been more contacts and a commitment to arrange with the local gov't for repatriation flights for countries like the US, Mexico and Israel? 

Other countries that don't have an embassy in country have managed better communication that a couple of automated emails over three plus days. 


If Canada can waste money on a ton of other things - surely working with other gov'ts that have invited Canada to make arrangements to bring back hundreds of Canadians is worth it, isn't it? 


Cheers


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Shall we fetch everyone ? How do we get the Canadians off the 100 cruise ships they are trapped on ? Some of the ships are infected, so it isn't like they can just fly home.

I am sure the government will do what is possible, but won't risk other Canadians in the process. Already the flight crews are taking a great risk.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> What was that about sticking to "you're on your own" with no repatriation flights? :rolleyes2:
> (That didn't take long for an exception by the gov't!!)
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are still not seeing the real picture here Eclectic12. Read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-police-arrest-covid-19-1.5505349

The people in Morocco are a large enough number that Air Canada is willing to send a plane for them. It is being done with the consent of our government but it is NOT a government paid 'repatriation flight'. It is a commercial flight by AC and the passengers are being told they have to pay their own fare for that flight.

This kind of co-operation can happen but there is still no doubt people will find themselves stuck in many cases. What is clear is that the government is NOT going to repatriate every Canadian who asks them to. What's more NO Canadians displaying symptoms will be allowed to board any commercial flight coming to Canada, that was announced some time ago. They will have to stay where they are and seek medical attention there if they need it.

The 700 or so Canadians on one cruise ship are being flown back to the USA along with American passengers. On arrival in the USA, they have been told they will then have to make their own way back into Canada. Again, only if they have no symptoms and again, at their own cost, they are NOT being repatriated by our government.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

There are many flights everyday that are no doubt going out empty and returning Canadians. Just took a quick peek and I see 4 in the air right now, two for Puetro Vallarta, two for Cancun. So it looks like a good amount of Canadians on vacation will be returned home but of course, not all.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I just listened to Trudeau's announcements for today. A large part of it was around this exact subject. He made it very clear that it is as I have been saying. Where possible, commercial flights will be arranged. What he did NOT say is that the government will be chartering any planes to bring back Canadians as they did with the Diamond Princess passengers. 

So, there will be NO government paid repatriation flights. Only commercial flights where possible for which the passengers will pay their own fares. He also reiterated that no one will be allowed on those flights who displays symptoms. He also made it clear that not all people will be able to get home and that they are being offered the $5k LOAN to help them stay where they are.

There should be no further questions by anyone as to what will happen to those 'stuck' abroad. If a commercial flight cannot be arranged, they will remain stuck.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Keep in mind that there are Canadian expats working who have no intention of returning home. We know at least four of them in our small circle of friends and relatives.

We flew back on Transat this past Thursday from PV, Mexico. There were several empty seats. No in flight service. We were advised of this when we checked in (no on line check in permitted). Each seat pocket had a small bottle of water and a chocolate bar. Flight attendants wore masks and gloves. We seldom saw them. We came back a week or so earlier than we anticipated. We had no problems booking a flight. The prices were not inflated on Transat, though we did see some high prices on Westjet...$275 vs. $1100 for flights on the same day, both direct, within an hour of each other. My understanding is the Westjet subsequently ceased the practice of boosting fares based on demand. The US airlines that had a stop at a US hub were all in the $250-$275 Cad range right up to the day we departed.

Always amazed at some people. DW knows of people who flew down to an AI earlier this week. Go figure. You cannot fix stupid. Our health and well being is far more important to us.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Our Westjet flight was more relaxed...service as usual...no stewardesses wore gloves or masks. Some of the passengers wore masks...a few even used dust masks. Staff handed out wipes for who ever wanted them. Day 2 of self isolation now...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> Shall we fetch everyone ?


No idea ... but where the local gov't lock down was swift, there's hundreds of people (i.e. more practical than picking up ten per country) and the local gov't is willing to negotiate a withdrawal of foreigners - why not?




sags said:


> ... How do we get the Canadians off the 100 cruise ships they are trapped on ? Some of the ships are infected, so it isn't like they can just fly home.


If they can't dock or infected passengers are bundled off to hospital like happened in Japan, there isn't much choice, is there?




sags said:


> ... I am sure the government will do what is possible, but won't risk other Canadians in the process ...


What's possible seems to be moving towards repatriation flights, in some areas.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I think you are still not seeing the real picture here Eclectic12. Read here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-police-arrest-covid-19-1.5505349
> 
> The people in Morocco are a large enough number that Air Canada is willing to send a plane for them. It is being done with the consent of our government but it is NOT a government paid 'repatriation flight'. It is a commercial flight by AC and the passengers are being told they have to pay their own fare for that flight ...


Then that's the misunderstanding you have - I'm talking about the Canadian gov't getting involved, not whether the gov't is paying or if it's Canadian equipment. The "you are on your own" statement to me says the gov't isn't going to facilitate any sort of transportation out.

In the case of Morocco, AC has said it's a special flight where I can't find a Morocco to Canada AC flight ... *at all*. So yes, the passengers may be paying for it but it isn't a regularly scheduled flight.

Similarly, the gov't is talking about a flight from Peru where there's nothing scheduled commercially. If this does happen - it's because of Canadian gov't involvement instead of "you are on your own".


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree with Eclectic12. It is at least facilitated by our government and may in fact be partially subsidized as far as we know. I agree none of the Canadians should get a free ride and so as long as they are paying a substantial fare, I'm agnostic about it. There are bigger issues to debate.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

4300 Canadians stuck in Peru ? They are going to need a fleet of aircraft.

It is getting more difficult for Canadians to get home. Countries are closing their air space and airports.

The Canadian government is trying to negotiate an exception from the countries involved. Problem is that Canadians are all over the world and each country has different rules.

Some Canadians are going to end up staying where they are. One guy in Peru is 17 hours away from the nearest open airport in Lima, which itself is closing Sunday night.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> 4300 Canadians stuck in Peru ? They are going to need a fleet of aircraft.
> 
> It is getting more difficult for Canadians to get home. Countries are closing their air space and airports.
> 
> ...


Did some of those people not watch the news, did they maybe hope to get a few extra days of vacation with no repercussions, or were they just hoping it would all work out fine in the end?

Friends of ours had 2 months booked in Dominican (Feb/Mar) and chose to leave early in the 2nd week in March before it got dicey.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Well if anyone wants to argue semantics over whether a commercial flight is the same as a government arranged repatriation flight as was done with the Diamond Princess, go ahead and waste your time doing so.

The reality is that the government has acknowledged there will be Canadians stuck in various places who want to return to Canada and NO government repatriation flights will be happening for them. Where a commercial flight can be arranged, the government will do what it can to help arrange them but that is ALL they will do. Some here seem to be under the illusion that most who want to return will be able to return, that's just not the case, many who want to return will be stuck 'for the duration' and the only help they will get so far is a $5k loan to help them do so.

What gets me with some of those 'stuck' is that they chose to go to places as recently as 2 weeks ago. For example, I saw a report on 19 students plus several teachers who went to Peru for a volunteer program just 2 weeks or so ago. Now they are crying, 'get us home'. WHY did a school board and teachers decide to go ahead with that travel when it was obvious what was happening everywhere? 

Never mind if there was a travel advisory or not, how did they not see it as a RISK to the health of the students and teachers/parents to be travelling anywhere? Other school boards were cancelling school trips before that, why didn't this one? 
https://www.cp24.com/news/king-city-students-stranded-in-peru-are-coming-home-ford-says-1.4859898

I can only imagine the state the parents must be in right now and I do hope that a flight can get in to bring them and others home. At the same time, I wonder if they realize that if any of them show symptoms by the time a flight gets to them, they will NOT be allowed to board the plane. Can you imagine the state of the parents if their one child gets left behind while the others return?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Well if anyone wants to argue semantics over whether a commercial flight is the same as a government arranged repatriation flight as was done with the Diamond Princess, go ahead and waste your time doing so.
> 
> The reality is that the government has acknowledged there will be Canadians stuck in various places who want to return to Canada and NO government repatriation flights will be happening for them. Where a commercial flight can be arranged, the government will do what it can to help arrange them but that is ALL they will do. Some here seem to be under the illusion that most who want to return will be able to return, that's just not the case, many who want to return will be stuck 'for the duration' and the only help they will get so far is a $5k loan to help them do so.
> 
> ...


Let them charter a flight. If parents and school board were dumb enough to let them go, they can own the responsibility for getting them back. Government loan of $5k per head should cover it. But it is a loan...


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Longtimeago said:


> Can you imagine the state of the parents if their one child gets left behind while the others return?


But but... mine is *special*. The rules should not apply to us. They're for others.

That's roughly what I imagine. That, and a lot of crying on TV.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Let them charter a flight. If parents and school board were dumb enough to let them go, they can own the responsibility for getting them back. Government loan of $5k per head should cover it. But it is a loan...


That would work IF Peru were allowing flights in andrewf, but they are not. As of yesterday the airport is completely closed down.
https://www.lima-airport.com/eng

This is happening in other countries as well. Morocco for example has done the same. We are talking about Canadians here on this thread but the same thing is happening with people from all countries. Brits can't get home, Americans can't get home, Australians can't get home, etc. etc. Canada is not the only country telling people not to expect to be repatriated. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...l-bans-americans-abroad-plead-for-help-137329

Canada is ONLY ANOTHER country telling people not to expect to be repatriated.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Let them charter a flight. If parents and school board were dumb enough to let them go, they can own the responsibility for getting them back. Government loan of $5k per head should cover it. But it is a loan...


^+++++! Can't fix stupid.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> ^+++++! Can't fix stupid.


No you can't. But you can make them pay a premium for their stupidity.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> What gets me with some of those 'stuck' is that they chose to go to places as recently as 2 weeks ago. For example, I saw a report on 19 students plus several teachers who went to Peru for a volunteer program just 2 weeks or so ago. Now they are crying, 'get us home'. WHY did a school board and teachers decide to go ahead with that travel when it was obvious what was happening everywhere?


I no longer question why some parents home school. I wonder what other wisdom these idiot teachers have taught their students.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ Usually the primary motivation of home schooling is religious indoctrination. Just sayin'. 

Not always the case, but it tends to be true.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

That figures since most of the world is some sort of religious...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Most of the pre-information aged world is some sort of religious. Based on the homeschoolers I know they are definitely religious.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> That figures since most of the world is some sort of religious...


More about not getting any pesky contrary viewpoints that might expand junior's mind beyond what is prescribed by the faith.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> ^ Usually the primary motivation of home schooling is religious indoctrination. Just sayin'.
> 
> Not always the case, but it tends to be true.


None of the people I know that home school (4 couples) are religious. Most of them pulled their kids because they felt they could do a better job. In one case my cousin's child came home and told her parent that her teacher said that Trump had killed more people than Hitler. Complaints about the teacher were dismissed so they chose to home school rather that subject their child to BS like that.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> More about not getting any pesky contrary viewpoints that might expand junior's mind beyond what is prescribed by the faith.


Not always. Some people don't want their kids force fed the public school agenda which has plenty of flaws and bias.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

While Air Canada etc. are currently flying flights where practical to bring people home still, that is going to end and there will still be many people stuck outside of Canada. For them so far, the government has offered $5k loans as we know. The question is how far will $5k go in paying living expenses in some countries and the answer is not far. 

I think some of those who end up stuck are going to face some serious financial difficulties.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Did some of those people not watch the news, did they maybe hope to get a few extra days of vacation with no repercussions, or were they just hoping it would all work out fine in the end?


Hard to say without some sort of more detailed research.

Certainly some IMO silly snow-birds have decided to stay in the US as they think it's safer than coming home. 

On the other end, I know of people who went in Jan to South America who tried to get out but the speed of the ban prevented leaving. Fortunately, the gov'ts actions have meant special commercial flights are being allowed to bring them back.

Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> That would work IF Peru were allowing flights in andrewf, but they are not. As of yesterday the airport is completely closed down ....


My understanding is commercial fights were banned by Peru on Tuesday March 17th. The flights that went after that had to be arranged between the source country ex. the US and Peru.


Be careful of trusting the quick summary or even detailed news reports. What's I have seen for Bolivia is "would suspend flights to and from Europe" until the end of March. People in the country emailed me the same day to say domestic flights are all banned as well as international flights. One can easily mistakenly believe there are options to leave on a regularly scheduled commercial flight when a gov't arranged one is the only possibility.


Cheers


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I expect to see a spike in virus cases in a week or so just based on the number of Canadians who have returned in the last week or so. It's around a million people.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/three-flight-peru-champagne-1.5506506


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

There is also no question that some people returning to Canada are hiding their symptoms and lying to get on flights back.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/how-sick-canadian-travellers-are-masking-covid-19-symptoms-to-get-through-airport-screening-1.5508276



No doubt the same has been happening with those returning from March Break and Snowbirds returning.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Returning Snowbirds with RVs are apparently being seen parking in places like Walmart in border towns. While some may just be parking overnight to sleep before continuing on to home, I have no doubt some are in fact parking while they shop for supplies to take home with them. That is of course contrary to the current rules which say they must go home without stopping at all and self-isolate. 

In a crisis, you always see the BEST in people and the WORST in people.









Coronavirus: Brockville police to crack down on overnight parking lot use by returning travellers - Kingston | Globalnews.ca


Brockville police say they will not be allowing people to camp in RVs in big box store parking lots for the time being.




globalnews.ca









__





You are being redirected...






lethbridgeherald.com


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I just read about a group of Boy Scouts stuck in Honduras. They left on March 7. Bad decision.








'I'm losing sleep': Toronto mom fears for son stranded in Honduras with scout troop


A 16-year-old Toronto boy and members of his scout troop are currently stranded in Central America due to travel restrictions imposed following the COVID-19 outbreak.



toronto.ctvnews.ca





No doubt we will continue to hear of similar situations elsewhere. At some point, people are going to have to realize that they will be forced to 'shelter in place' wherever they are.

Returning Snowbirds continue to ignore the order to quarantine.








RV-driving snowbird who recently travelled to U.S. expelled from two Quebec grocery stores


The man attempted, unsuccessfully, to shop at an IGA store and a Metro store in St-Félicien.




nationalpost.com


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I mean, if you are returning from the US, why not stock up on groceries in the US, cross the border, and go straight home?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

The Okanagan is full of rv's returning from the USA deserts....the joint where I'm at is almost full. Seems they are all doing their 14 day isolation as am I in my motor home (day 8)...no point in driving all the way back to your home on the other side of the Rockies...still winter there.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

andrewf said:


> I mean, if you are returning from the US, why not stock up on groceries in the US, cross the border, and go straight home?


All the same rules apply as always andrewf in regards to how much you can bring back in $ terms and what items such as fruit, vegetable, meat, etc. are allowed. So while they could stock up on most items, they can't on some items.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> The Okanagan is full of rv's returning from the USA deserts....the joint where I'm at is almost full. Seems they are all doing their 14 day isolation as am I in my motor home (day 8)...no point in driving all the way back to your home on the other side of the Rockies...still winter there.


Presuming you are in some kind of RV park there Eder, how are you and others getting groceries? Those who returned when they were still just being ASKED to self-isolate can ignore that request and still go buy groceries. Those who are returning after the MANDATED quarantine period are not only not able to go to a grocery store but are required to drive straight home, stopping only for fuel if necessary. They cannot park where you are parked now.

It is because those returning before the Quarantine Act was invoked as of midnight on the 25th, were stopping to pick up groceries etc. that the Quarantine Act was invoked. In other words, all those who parked as you are but continue to go the supermarket etc. and are not REALLY self-isolating if they are doing that.









Coronavirus: Travellers coming back to Canada now mandated to isolate, feds say - National | Globalnews.ca


Health Minister Patty Hajdu is invoking the Quarantine Act to mandate isolation.




globalnews.ca


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> All the same rules apply as always andrewf in regards to how much you can bring back in $ terms and what items such as fruit, vegetable, meat, etc. are allowed. So while they could stock up on most items, they can't on some items.


we spend $200 on groceries in buffalo before we crossed. Border guard didn't ask details. Just told him we bought groceries. Swiss cheese protection


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I'm still waiting to hear Eder's response to how they are getting groceries. PM Trudeau has made it very clear that ANYONE who has returned to Canada from ANY country in the last 14 days cannot even go for a walk away from their home. In the case of an RV park I guess that would mean your 'parking site'. 

I have trouble imagining that an RV park full of returnees is complying with that.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'll let you figure that out for yourself since you seem to have some pre determined motive other than obtaining information.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> I'll let you figure that out for yourself since you seem to have some pre determined motive other than obtaining information.


Really? That's your response? Well I guess the answer then is obvious since you are unwilling to answer.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> The reality is that the government has acknowledged there will be Canadians stuck in various places who want to return to Canada and NO government repatriation flights will be happening for them.


MONTREAL, March 28, 2020 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada announced today that, in collaboration with the Government of Canada, it will operate its first special flight from Algiers on Tuesday. Additional flights from Peru and Ecuador are also planned to depart in the coming days. 


On March 28th alone, Air Canada is operating 59 flights back to Canada carrying approximately 8,500 passengers. Over the period between March 27 to 29, Air Canada will carry approximately 22,500 passengers back to Canada on 175 flights from Asia, Europe, Caribbean/South America and the United States


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> MONTREAL, March 28, 2020 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada announced today that, in collaboration with the Government of Canada, it will operate its first special flight from Algiers on Tuesday. Additional flights from Peru and Ecuador are also planned to depart in the coming days.
> 
> 
> On March 28th alone, Air Canada is operating 59 flights back to Canada carrying approximately 8,500 passengers. Over the period between March 27 to 29, Air Canada will carry approximately 22,500 passengers back to Canada on 175 flights from Asia, Europe, Caribbean/South America and the United States


What's your point? Air Canada are operating flights but that will not get all Canadians who want to come home, home from everywhere.

I've just been reading about another Snowbird problem with full-time RVers(they live in their RVs year round) returning to Canada and having nowhere to go. 


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/some-returning-snowbirds-are-finding-they-have-no-place-to-land-in-ontario-1.5514180


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> What's your point? Air Canada are operating flights but that will not get all Canadians who want to come home, home from everywhere.


I believe you were previously saying there would be "NO government repatriation flights" when indeed there are. Will they get all Canadians home ... probably not.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I believe you were previously saying there would be "NO government repatriation flights" when indeed there are. Will they get all Canadians home ... probably not.


Cainvest, you really don't like to be wrong do you. There are NO government repatriation flights being flown since they brought the last batch back from a cruise ship to Trenton. A GOVERNMENT repatriation flight is paid for by the government as were those flights. The government has in fact said there will be no more of them.

AIR CANADA are flying COMMERCIAL flights where there are enough people who can PAY for a ticket to justify them scheduling a flight.

If you want to try and argue semantically that those flights qualify as a 'GOVERNMENT repatriation flight', knock yourself out, you'll still be wrong.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Cainvest, you really don't like to be wrong do you. There are NO government repatriation flights being flown since they brought the last batch back from a cruise ship to Trenton. A GOVERNMENT repatriation flight is paid for by the government as were those flights. The government has in fact said there will be no more of them.
> 
> AIR CANADA are flying COMMERCIAL flights where there are enough people who can PAY for a ticket to justify them scheduling a flight.
> 
> If you want to try and argue semantically that those flights qualify as a 'GOVERNMENT repatriation flight', knock yourself out, you'll still be wrong.


You might be right, the press article didn't specify who exactly is paying for what.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Seems to be hair splitting ... passengers paying = commercial flights despite the fact that the local gov't banned commercial flights (i.e. no gov't to gov't negotiations = no flight, no matter how one classifies the flight).

Going through commercial booking sites like expedia, AC, flights google says there's no flights.

AC's notes for those trying to book the commercial flight say that there may be a special flight operated by Air Canada on behalf of the Canadian government.


I know ... I know .... for some, the passenger paying = commercial flight, despite what AC says and whether any gov't to gov't negotiations were needed to allow the commercial flight to land/take on passengers/leave.

Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Whatever the case, I think passengers should be highly thankful and gracious for whatever the gov't and airlines do to get people home. Not a single freaking complaint please!

It was plenty obvious by mid/late Feb that all hell was likely going to break loose and it was time to take it seriously..


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> I know ... I know .... for some, the passenger paying = commercial flight, despite what AC says and whether any gov't to gov't negotiations were needed to allow the commercial flight to land/take on passengers/leave.


It would be interesting to find out what those people are paying. Is it a single regular fare to come back in which case the airline is paying for an empty plane to fly down there and/or did they receive gov funds to do so?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Whatever the case, I think passengers should be highly thankful and gracious for whatever the gov't and airlines do to get people home. Not a single freaking complaint please!


The closest to a complaint I've seen reported so far is that other country airports have far more tests/discussions than the Canadian one.

Lots of relief and being thankful.


Cheers

*PS*
The negative comments I have seen have been around contact and info from the Canadian gov't. The really negative comments IIRC are cruise ship types.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

cainvest said:


> It would be interesting to find out what those people are paying. Is it a single regular fare to come back in which case the airline is paying for an empty plane to fly down there and/or did they receive gov funds to do so?


I doubt it's a single fare. The few references I have seen to dollar amounts talk typically talk about how it's triple or quadruple the original ticket price. 

Maybe some of the Sunwing or Transat charters were free or regular price?


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The problem with those anecdotes is likely the original ticket was part of a package booked months ago, and not a normal refundable same day fare. People are ignorant if they think a package price purchased many months ago should be honored on a short notice ticket that most business people travel on.

I can buy a basic non-refundable fare months in advance on any airline for a lot less than if I want to book today for a flight tomorrow. It is not rocket science.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Sunwing was filling their planes from PV to Toronto after their charter passengers were
Accommodated. A family of 5 returned a week early 2 weeks ago.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Here's how it works. Our government is negotiating if necessary (a country has closed their airports) for the right to land a plane and pick up passengers. That is all the government is doing.

Air Canada is then flying a plane empty to make the pick up. They are then charging the passengers an air fare for the flight back. How much obviously depends on costs incurred but the government is NOT subsidizing them in any way. In the case of one of the first flights from Morocco, AC charged $1272 plus tax, per person. If they are maintaining prices in line with that depending on location etc. then they certainly are not price gouging at all. They are being good corporate citizens trying to help. 

No one is allowed on the plane with symptoms. That can mean a group or family have to make a hard choice. Again, not everyone is going to get home even when a flight is available from their location.

Then comes what happens when the flight lands in Canada. They will be landing at one of the 4 designated airports, Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal. Not anywhere else. Those with a personal vehicle at that airport can drive home without stopping anywhere along the way for any purpose other than fuel.

Those without a vehicle at that airport are not allowed to use public transportation which means being quarantined nearby for 14 days. The government is providing and paying for the quarantine facilities. But think about it, they still aren't getting home for another 14 days. They will be put up in a hotel or whatever. I can't find a link that covers this but it was announced at some point. After the 14 days, they can then make their own way back home at their own expense.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Even worse of are those people who are still stuck on cruise ships around the world. They are stuck in what amounts to a 'petri dish'. The governor of Florida has just refused entry to the Zaandam and sister ship the Rotterdam. There are 248 Canadians among the passengers. 








Trump plans to intervene on allowing Holland America cruise ships to dock in Florida


The Zaandam and Rotterdam crossed the Panama Canal and is en route to Florida, but whether the ships can dock remains a lingering question.



www.usatoday.com






Our government have very little influence over what will happen with those Canadians. That's why travellers were told WEEKS ago to come home. Yet again, these 248 Canadians got on the Zaandam on March 7th. A time when anyone with half a brain should have known it was a bad idea to do so. But yet again, I will bet anything that they got on because if they didn't they would lose the money they had paid for the cruise. They self-justified their decision like we have even seen posters here do back then by saying, 'there is no government advisory stating not to travel and I don't want to lose my money.' I recall posting a comment back then like, 'anyone with half a brain knows now is not the time to be going on vacation' and got push back on that statement in this forum. 

Well, they made their bed and now they have to lie in it. If they do get off the ship and say Air Canada puts on a flight to bring them back, they will not be allowed on if they have symptoms which means couples and families may be split up and they will be put into immediate quarantine when they land. Those not allowed to return will have to be hospitalized wherever the ship finally docks and they will have to pay for their own care. Even in the best case scenario for these people at this time, they are still not going to actually get back to their homes for a while yet and it is likely to cost them money.

Some may recall after the flights to Trenton were arranged for the Diamond Princess passengers from Canada that Trudeau announced there would be $5k loans available to help Canadians who were out of the country. On that same day, I suggested here that people read between the lines as to just what that meant. The message was clear to those who knew how to read it. You're on your own. At that point in time, it was actually still possible for people to get normal flights from most places.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

We all know Trudeau should have closed the border back in January but waited till March 18th to tell Canadians to get home by March 21. Should have given a few weeks notice but since he didn't the responsibility lies with our government to ensure all Canadians can return.

As so many here are outraged that some have a life its interesting to note a virus outbreak (14 cases confirmed so far) among foreign (Mexican) agriculture workers broke out in the Okanagan...allowed into the country by our government on March 12th. 

I guess thats OK but going on a holiday when there are no restrictions should result in getting screwed by short warning government edicts.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I guess there's no edit button...March 18th it was announced border closure with the USA.

Thanks andrewf! I found it lol...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder, to edit, you click on the three vertical dots on the top right corner of your post. There is an edit button in that menu.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> We all know Trudeau should have closed the border back in January but waited till March 18th to tell Canadians to get home by March 21. Should have given a few weeks notice but since he didn't the responsibility lies with our government to ensure all Canadians can return.
> 
> As so many here are outraged that some have a life its interesting to note a virus outbreak (14 cases confirmed so far) among foreign (Mexican) agriculture workers broke out in the Okanagan...allowed into the country by our government on March 12th.
> 
> I guess thats OK but going on a holiday when there are no restrictions should result in getting screwed by short warning government edicts.


There is no way that it would have been tolerated by the public to close the border in January. Not to say that he shouldn't have acted sooner, but governments can only be so far ahead of the public.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

andrewf said:


> There is no way that it would have been tolerated by the public to close the border in January. Not to say that he shouldn't have acted sooner, but governments can only be so far ahead of the public.


Unfortunately that is correct. As I have said here repeatedly, anyone with half a brain should not have been able to see by the beginning of March that travel to anywhere for any reason was not a good idea. But the public as a whole is simply not willing to accept blunt truths in large doses. They have to be spoon fed one small dose at a time and that is what has been happening.

Snowbirds who left Canada in November (majority) or even as late as in January, have an acceptable line of reasoning for their decision back then but anyone who left in March has only an EXCUSE for having done so. 

The government has no responsibility to get any Canadian who wants to return, back home. People are responsible for their OWN actions. Anyone who chooses to travel outside of their home country needs to realize that. The government is not anyone's MOTHER.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> As so many here are outraged that some have a life its interesting to note a virus outbreak (14 cases confirmed so far) among foreign (Mexican) agriculture workers broke out in the Okanagan...allowed into the country by our government on March 12th.
> 
> I guess thats OK but going on a holiday when there are no restrictions should result in getting screwed by short warning government edicts.


Everyone has a life Eder. However, it is THEIR life and THEIR responsibility to deal with the consequences of THEIR decisions. It is not the government's responsibility to do so.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> It would be interesting to find out what those people are paying. Is it a single regular fare to come back in which case the airline is paying for an empty plane to fly down there and/or did they receive gov funds to do so?


Additional response to your question cainvest. Those who will be returning on the flights from India are paying $2900 each. Predictably, some are complaining about the price. 








Canadians stuck in India told to pay $2,900 for special flight home


Canadians stuck in India have been given the option of a special flight back home — but they’ll have to foot the $2,900 bill themselves, according to the federal government.




www.ctvnews.ca





People need to realize they are responsible for themselves. They got themselves into the situation, they are responsible for getting themselves out of the situation. It has nothing to do with 'who could have known' or anything else, it is simply about personal responsibility.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Mid-March a group of Texas students got on a charter flight to Mexico. Now the result adds to the problem.








More than 40 spring breakers who ignored public health advice test positive for coronavirus


Dozens of spring breakers from Texas boarded a plane for fun and came home with coronavirus.




www.cnn.com


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> The problem with those anecdotes is likely the original ticket was part of a package booked months ago, and not a normal refundable same day fare ... I can buy a basic non-refundable fare months in advance on any airline for a lot less than if I want to book today for a flight tomorrow ...


And my understanding is that same day refundable tickets are massively over priced compared to cost/reasonable profit.

FWIW, a same day ticket today for Vancouver is five times what the cheap ticket is for next year. Triple to quadruple the original, likely cheaper ticket price doesn't look all that far off IMO.

IAC ... the question wasn't whether the airline was going to make the same price as a regular, refundable ticket during more normal travel times. The question was whether the airline is paying for the empty flight to pickup the returning passengers. Until the airlines or the Canadian gov't spell it out - it's guesswork on our part.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Sunwing was filling their planes from PV to Toronto after their charter passengers were
> Accommodated. A family of 5 returned a week early 2 weeks ago.


Any idea if and what they were charged per person for the one way flight?

Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

My understanding, maybe incorrect, is there was no charge for filling up the empty seats after all Sunwing passengers were accommodated. As we know, it costs the airline virtually nothing beyond a bit of fuel to fill up the last 25 seats or so.

Added: The plane was flying anyway. That is different from a plane specifically sent to pick up stranded passengers.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Here's how it works. Our government is negotiating if necessary (a country has closed their airports) for the right to land a plane and pick up passengers. That is all the government is doing.
> 
> Air Canada is then flying a plane empty to make the pick up. They are then charging the passengers an air fare for the flight back. How much obviously depends on costs incurred but the government is NOT subsidizing them in any way. In the case of one of the first flights from Morocco, AC charged $1272 plus tax, per person. If they are maintaining prices in line with that depending on location etc. then they certainly are not price gouging at all. They are being good corporate citizens trying to help ...


Impressive considering a refundable ticket to Vancouver today is listed as between $1200 and $1400, depending on whether one selects economy or business class.




Longtimeago said:


> Even worse of are those people who are still stuck on cruise ships around the world. They are stuck in what amounts to a 'petri dish'. The governor of Florida has just refused entry to the Zaandam and sister ship the Rotterdam ...


The governor's good buddy Trump didn't like that idea and says the Canadians plus others are going to be landed then sent home.



> We are taking the Canadians off and giving them to Canadian authorities. They’re going to bring them back home. The same thing with the UK. But we have to help the people. They are in big trouble no matter where they are from. Happen to be Americans, largely Americans, but whether they were or not, they are dying so we have to do something and the governor knows that too ...



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> My understanding, maybe incorrect, is there was no charge for filling up the empty seats after all Sunwing passengers were accommodated. As we know, it costs the airline virtually nothing beyond a bit of fuel to fill up the last 25 seats or so ...


True ... I can recall being dismayed that a software developers conference had driven up the one way flight from San Fransisco to LA from the usual range of $80 to $100 to a range that started at $200.

When I remembered my relative recommending SouthWest and checked, they had the usual range. The six am flight they were clearly trying to fill the last few as I booked one for $40, taxes included.




AltaRed said:


> Added: The plane was flying anyway. That is different from a plane specifically sent to pick up stranded passengers.


Sure ... I was curious as to whether they tried to get some money to help cover costs a bit.

Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Don't think we will ever know if gov't provided some funds for a plane to fly empty one way. I suspect so in order to entice a plane to go, but for now it would be peanuts relative to the hundreds of billions being spent elsewhere. My pet peeve would be anyone who actually LEFT the country after circa March 1st or so to travel internationally, should have had their head examined. It was pretty clear the poo would be hitting fans globally around that time.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Don't think we will ever know if gov't provided some funds for a plane to fly empty one way.


With current fuel costs (assuming jet fuel dropped as well) it likely works out to a regular fare a month ago.
Could also be a "good will" part on the airlines when they come back to the gov for bailout money and say "remember us, we helped get Canadians back home".


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> Don't think we will ever know if gov't provided some funds for a plane to fly empty one way. I suspect so in order to entice a plane to go, but for now it would be peanuts relative to the hundreds of billions being spent elsewhere. My pet peeve would be anyone who actually LEFT the country after circa March 1st or so to travel internationally, should have had their head examined. It was pretty clear the poo would be hitting fans globally around that time.


Not the case AltaRed. The government has made it very clear they are not paying anything for the flights. In the case of the $2900 flights from India for example, the airlines making the charter flights are not even Canadian airlines. All the government is doing is putting an airline willing to charter a plane to a bunch of passengers, together with a bunch of passengers willing to charter their own plane. It is no different than someone who charters a plane to fly them from A to B anywhere. 

As for those who left after March 1st, I agree. There were even some who post in this forum. But I have no problem with those who did so and take care of themselves as to staying or getting back. It is those who did so and now think they have a RIGHT to be brought back by the government. They accept no responsibility for their own actions.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

cainvest said:


> With current fuel costs (assuming jet fuel dropped as well) it likely works out to a regular fare a month ago.
> Could also be a "good will" part on the airlines when they come back to the gov for bailout money and say "remember us, we helped get Canadians back home".


I would think the airline would factor in the cost of the flight down and back, when pricing a seat. Since everyone is likely paying the full fare, compared to when some paid a discount/some full, I would think they are covered off.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Not too much of a lock down for Canadians in rv's yet I guess...A buddy just crossed yesterday at Nogales returning from La Panita otw to Vancouver. He said he incurred no issues at the USA border and is spending tonite in Phoenix. No request for him to self isolate etc.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> Not too much of a lock down for Canadians in rv's yet I guess...A buddy just crossed yesterday at Nogales returning from La Panita otw to Vancouver. He said he incurred no issues at the USA border and is spending tonite in Phoenix. No request for him to self isolate etc.


You are speaking about what the US authorities are doing or not doing Eder. The 'lockdown' for Canadians comes when the cross the border into Canada.

There are clear criteria for them when they cross our border.

1. NO stopping between the border and their home, not even to buy groceries, fuel is the only exception.
2. They MUST Quarantine for 14 days on arrival home. Mandatory Quarantine means they cannot leave their home for any reason during that 14 days unless it is a medical emergency. 





__





COVID-19: Travel, testing and borders - Travel.gc.ca


COVID-19 border measures have ended as of October 1, 2022 for all travellers entering or returning to Canada by air, land or sea.




www.canada.ca





According to you Eder you are aware that some RVers are NOT complying with that.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I guess you missed my point of how things are for my friend currently in the USA... but thanks for reiterating for the __th time what the latest rules in Canada are.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> I guess you missed my point of how things are for my friend currently in the USA... but thanks for reiterating for the __th time what the latest rules in Canada are.


Oh, I don't think I missed anything at all Eder.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Check this idiot out.








Canadian snowbird living in car after being turned away at P.E.I.’s Confederation Bridge | Globalnews.ca


Barry Humberstone finds himself living in his car after being turned away by officials at the Confederation Bridge because of COVID-19 restrictions.




globalnews.ca





He finally returned now and is crying about what he returned to. 

He obviously got in before the latest requirement to show an acceptable quarantine plan. Today he would be sent into a federal quarantine facility. 

What I want to know is just how is he in fact self-isolating right now. I think it is pretty obvious that he is not. Jerk.


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