# Looking for some insurance help



## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi everyone

I have a question related to my car insurance that is coming up for renewal. would appreciate any answers, but can i request that rickson9 if you are reading this post please don't reply. I know you will not have anything constructive to add.

Anyways here is the question.

1.My car (honda accord 2003) and condo insurance is coming up for renewal Feb. 2010
2. My current rate is $352 based on 1 at fault accident and 2 tickets
3. Both tickets fall of my record in March after the three year period.
4. Since my insurance renews in february though, both of them will show on my record and result in higher premiums for the next year

Here is what i'm considering:
1. Put my wife as the only driver on the car, which will mean only she can drive, wait till April and reinstate myself as a secondary driver at which point my tickets will be off my record. Is this viable/legal? Pros and cons of this option?
2. Get rid of my insurance and stop driving the car for a month and reinstate my insurance in the month of april. This will result in a month of no insurance.....

What are ppls thoughts? Appreciate any answers

Thanks


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't believe you can take yourself off the insurance as a second driver because i think every adult over 16 who has a driver's license and no other car must be insured. 

Like wise being uninsured getting insurance gets you a higher quote.

Best thing is to spend hours on the phone getting this quoted to find the cheapest insurance for yourself


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

financeguru said:


> Here is what i'm considering:
> 1. Put my wife as the only driver on the car, which will mean only she can drive, wait till April and reinstate myself as a secondary driver at which point my tickets will be off my record. Is this viable/legal? Pros and cons of this option?


This won't work for several reasons.
First of all, all adults of legal driving age living in the same household have to be listed on the policy.
You cannot just remove yourself, esp. since you own the car.
Secondly, it is a bad idea to have a gap in your insurance coverage, even if it is 2 months.
Gaps is insurance coverage are perceived negatively and this can hound you for years.


> 2. Get rid of my insurance and stop driving the car for a month and reinstate my insurance in the month of april. This will result in a month of no insurance.....


Again, bad idea. Gap in coverage is not good.
Also, as part of your car registration you are required by law to maintain the minimum liability insurance coverage at all times.

I suggest get a 6 month policy at whatever best rate you can get now.
In April, shop around and if you find a better rate, switch insurance companies.
Make sure that the one you buy now is cancelable.
Then switch in April.
It'll need you to spend some time on the phone - now as well as again in April, but you'll save money and don't have to do all those monkey tricks and drop your insurance coverage.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

SixesAndSevens said:


> I suggest get a 6 month policy at whatever best rate you can get now.


I agree. I renewed my auto insurance on January 1st and was shocked to learn that my previous insurer had started writing policies on a semi-annual basis and won't even do annual policies anymore. My broker said this is not uncommon. Hopefully you can tough it out with a six month policy and renew at a better rate.


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## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

Thankyou for your replies everyone....Dana would it be possible for you to let me know the name of your insurance broker? I'm based in Toronto.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

financeguru said:


> Thankyou for your replies everyone....Dana would it be possible for you to let me know the name of your insurance broker? I'm based in Toronto.


Here you go


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## stephenheath (Apr 3, 2009)

I've never had a problem making changes to my insurance throughout the year... heck, I even called them when I changed jobs to see if a smaller commute would save me money, and it did. So no matter what you do, definately call your insurance company back once the tickets drop off and say "ok, now what can you do for me?"... they'll probably lower your rate for the rest of the year.


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## CuriousReader (Apr 3, 2009)

What a timing for the thread ... my auto insurance also coming up for renewal in April and I am in the same situation, have 1 speeding ticket that's driving up my insurance and it will fall off the 3-year period in July. 

My initial thought was getting an insurance renewal as usual but then cancel it out after the ticker fall off record.

I didnt know we have 6-months auto insurance term in Canada? Do you guys know which insurance companies offer 6 months insurance?

Also, after the 3 year period does the ticket totally erased from your record or is there any way the insurance company to figure this out? eg. Can they ask whether you have any ticket in the last 5 years?


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

CuriousReader said:


> I didnt know we have 6-months auto insurance term in Canada? Do you guys know which insurance companies offer 6 months insurance?


Some do.
For example, State Farm has 6 month terms only.


> Also, after the 3 year period does the ticket totally erased from your record or is there any way the insurance company to figure this out? eg. Can they ask whether you have any ticket in the last 5 years?


Yes, the MTO has all historical records.
The insurance company can find out if they really wanted to.
Don't lie on your insurance application.


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## CuriousReader (Apr 3, 2009)

SixesAndSevens said:


> Yes, the MTO has all historical records.
> The insurance company can find out if they really wanted to.
> Don't lie on your insurance application.


Nah, wont even try to lie ... just want to know what they can legally use as part of consideration to calculate insurance rate


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

CuriousReader said:


> just want to know what they can legally use as part of consideration to calculate insurance rate


Legally, they can use _anything_ to calculate your rate.
All they have to do is "prove" that according to some study, or statistics, or data that you are higher risk.
As you know the following factors have a big influence on your risk rating : age, sex, location, occupation, employment consistency, credit history, driving record, insurance claim history, criminal history (or ideally, the lack of), type of vehicle, insurance history, etc.
But in addition, they could be using a variety of other factors and they never reveal the basis for their calculations.
It's all matrix based and depends on which cell of the matrix you happen to fall into.
They can (if they wanted to, not that they usually do), dig up some past piece of history on you to calculate that you are high risk.
Like, your ex-girlfriend went to the small claims court in 1988 to recover $100 of an unpaid phone bill and therefore, you are a bad driver.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Insurance companies are the only businesses that have the legal right to discriminate.


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## ssimps (Dec 8, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> Insurance companies are the only businesses that have the legal right to discriminate.


In fact is that not what they are in the business of doing? If they did not discriminate, how much would they really make? Sucks, but it seems to be the name of their game.


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## Financial Highway (Apr 3, 2009)

financeguru said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I have a question related to my car insurance that is coming up for renewal. would appreciate any answers, but can i request that rickson9 if you are reading this post please don't reply. I know you will not have anything constructive to add.
> 
> ...


I have not been on the forum for several months, but hope to be back regularly now and I haven't had a chance to read all the replies to your question so I apologize if I repeat somethings.

1. Most insurance companies have now implemented a "Individual Rating Program" which means that you no longer fall in strict category but rates will be based on your personal situation. In the past when you had a ticket in the last 3 years it would not matter if you had it 2 months ago or 2 years and 10 months ago, you would be rated the same. With IRP things are different now, if you only have a month before the ticket falls of your record your premium will take that into account so the difference between no ticket and your situation would be minimal. However NOT ALL companies are following the IRP system.

2. If you have been with the same insurance company prior to getting those tickets chances are your company is not aware of those convictions. It costs money for a company to check records every year so they only do random audits and won't always know about the tickets. 

3. Your option 1 is valid/legal. Although everyone who is licensed, must be listed on your policy you do have the option to exclude drivers. You'll have to specifically ask for the endorsement (28A Exclusion of a driver). However I do not recommend that as you will have a gap in your insurance and you may no longer drive the car.

4. your option 2 could work as well, however you will have a gap in insurance. Although this does not look good on the record it often does not have an impact on your insurance if you have a valid reason for not having insurance. For example you move to a urban area and use public transportation, however the insurance company could potentially rate for the gap if there does not seem to be a valid reason (i.e. you keep the same car, but do not have insurance on it because of your ticket).


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Financial Highway said:


> 2. If you have been with the same insurance company prior to getting those tickets chances are your company is not aware of those convictions. It costs money for a company to check records every year so they only do random audits and won't always know about the tickets.


Are you sure about that?
I'm yet to hear of a case among friends, family (and myself) where the current insurance company did not pick up a new ticket at the time of renewal.
I believe insurance companies always check driving record at the time of renewal.


> For example you move to a urban area and use public transportation,


I don't think that's a valid reason to drop insurance.
You could drop comprehensive and keep just liability at the very least.
Also, you cannot renew your vehicle registration if you drop insurance (at least in Ontario)


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## Financial Highway (Apr 3, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> Are you sure about that?
> I'm yet to hear of a case among friends, family (and myself) where the current insurance company did not pick up a new ticket at the time of renewal.
> I believe insurance companies always check driving record at the time of renewal.


 Yes I am certain of this, there maybe companies who do it on every renewal, but for the most part they dont. I currently have 3 tickets in the past three years and one accident, my insurance did not check MVR for the tickets and renewed my policy early January with no premium increase other than the provincial wide. It also does not show up on my policy papers for convictions. At the current company I work for we do not check every year either, just random draws. 




> I don't think that's a valid reason to drop insurance.
> You could drop comprehensive and keep just liability at the very least.
> Also, you cannot renew your vehicle registration if you drop insurance (at least in Ontario)


This like I said depends on the insurance company, if you decide to not have a car and you take public transit most companies will not take it against you. Gap in insurance coverage will prompt the company to do more due diligence, but just because you did not have insurance doesn't mean you will be punished for it. Yes if you do not have insurance you can not have plates on your car in Ontario, but you should not be driving without insurance anyways.


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## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

Thanks fo the feedback everyone. Financial Highway is correct in that not many insurance companies view a gap of a month on your insurance policy as a huge negative.

Just an update on my situation, i have sought insurance quotes from a few companies. I'm currently insured with RBC. Most companies are not willing to insure me as a new client based on the current number of tickets i have on my record. RBC is wiling to renew my insurance but almost at the same premiums i have now. I asked both RBC and a couple of other companies what would happen if i dropped insurance for a month and came back end of March, the rep at RBC suggested that it would not be viewed negatively in my case and my insurance would drop by a whopping $100 per month. Another company is saying they would be willing to insure me in that situation and would decrease my insurance to $230 per month, so it seems like the best option in my case is to stop driving the car, park it for a month and use either public transit or car rentals over the weekends. That is what we intend to do.


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## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

Final update on this topic, i was able to find an insurance rate of $200..effective March 30th. This means i will not be able to drive the car for a month. Given that my previous insurance was $352 is, this is a huge win for me. It always pays to shop around and don't accept the first advice you get!


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## CuriousReader (Apr 3, 2009)

financeguru said:


> Final update on this topic, i was able to find an insurance rate of $200..effective March 30th. This means i will not be able to drive the car for a month. Given that my previous insurance was $352 is, this is a huge win for me. It always pays to shop around and don't accept the first advice you get!


Nice ... mind sharing who did you insure it and if you use broker, who the broker was? I am in similar situation as you and have my renewal coming up soon.

Btw, why did you have to have a month gap? Couldnt the new insurance kicks in right away?


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## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

CuriousReader said:


> Nice ... mind sharing who did you insure it and if you use broker, who the broker was? I am in similar situation as you and have my renewal coming up soon.
> 
> Btw, why did you have to have a month gap? Couldnt the new insurance kicks in right away?


Curious reader, 
I got insurance with TD Melonche Melonex, they have an insurance policy for university grads that worked out well for me. I directly called TD MM.

TD MM was not willing to insure me with the two convictions on the record, (one major, other minor) both coming off in the month of March. However they were ok with the one month gap in insurance, if i canceled my current policy with RBC and renewed once the tickets had fallen off. Most of the insurers i talked to had no issue with the one month gap in insurance....this seems to be something to look into if your insurance is coming up for renewal and you have tickets coming of within a month or two. 
In my case, i pay 220 aprox in gas and 350 in insurance, so its taking me about 570$ to drive my car (not to mention additional overhead on maintenance). I plan on using rentals over theweekends which is when we really need a vehicle. I believe i'll be spending less money in rentals over the next month than i did on insurance and mileage for running my car.


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## CuriousReader (Apr 3, 2009)

Good to know ... I originally insured with TD MM too, but then they told me to looked for anothe insurer because of the speeding ticket on my record. I am up for renewal at the end of April, the ticket will fall off the 3-year period at the end of July, so quite a big gap.

I might have to find insurer with 6-month contract, then hoping TD MM would give me another chance


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

+1 For TD M. Cheapest rates I could find. 

One thing you can change regardless of your tickets, gender, etc, is the car you drive. Insurance prices are also heavily weighted on the history of claims for every car. Unfortunately, the most popular cars tend to be the highest price on insurance. eg, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla. Because a lot of people own them, a lot of claims are made. Therefor your ratings are also base on that. (But not only) 

I believe insurance companies use a report from the IBC. (Insurance Bureau Canada). It's a rather confusing graph that tells you how many claims were filed on each car per year. Less claims=lower price. 

http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/Buying_a_New_Car/HCMU.asp


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I find car insurance rates very puzzling! I have a 20 year perfect record, not even a parking ticket, yet for no reason, TD MM increased my premium by over 50% some years ago; when I complained & was told to look elsewhere if I was not satisfied, I did just that and went to Belair for $600 less and with additional coverage I might add (1st time accident forgiveness or whatever is called), which I did not have with TD, go figure!


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Have you been driving the same car for 20 years?


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## chrisrich (Dec 17, 2009)

I swear that I posted this earlier but I can't see it now.

Isn't most of the insurance available through privates? I am guessing that someone savvy enough to compare quotes and push the providers will be able to secure a better rate. 

It may seem like an alien idea if it's always been locked down before but it works in the US with all the competition in the insurance business. If you live in NYC and DON'T shop around you can easilly pay %60 above the best rates.


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