# Revenue Canada Bank Account Seizure- How can I get my RRSPs!?



## brokeandhungry

I am in a terrible situation and would greatly appreciate some solid advice, something I frustratingly haven't got from the banks, revenue canada or anyone else.

I had a successful direct sales business in Hamilton Canada but when the recession hit it completely tanked. I had to give it up last year and find my self with 2 years unfiled tax returns (09/10) and 2 years of unpaid taxes (07/08). My CIBC bank account was frozen and seized by CRA in January and this blocked me from accessing my RRSP account where I have around $3000 set aside. At this point I haven't found a job, am on social assistance and struggling to get by day to day. I dont have money to go bankrupt and even if I do it seems I will have to wait 9 months to get access to the RRSPs.

Im looking for a loophole. From what I understand the RRSP its self hasnt been frozen but if I try to transfer the RRSP into my main CIBC account they will be seized.

The crooks at CIBC say they cant cash it out and send a cheque to me because that violates the seizure. 

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, I was thinking it may be possible to transfer it to another bank and then cash it but not sure if that will work. Maybe if I closed all my accounts at CIBC and then tried to sell the RRSP they would have to send a cheque out??? 

Desperate for a solution, hope someone can help.


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## MoneyGal

Your ONLY access to these funds - and this still may not work - is to negotiate with CRA. This means negotiating a payment arrangement to repay your outstanding tax owing. 

However, based on the little information you've given us, I suspect that if/when you cash in the RRSP, the full amount would be withheld as partial compensation for your unpaid tax bill. 

In essence: if new resources are freed up for you, CRA will seize them. This will continue to happen until you make a payment plan with them _that you honour._


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## DrStan

*Sound advice*

Here's a tip. Pay your taxes and you won't get seized. Are you for real when stating that CIBC and CRA are crooks? A crook is a person like you who doesn't pay their taxes. There is no "loophole" and the CRA is smarter than you. They will squeeze you dry. Go flip burgers or something, it seems in line with your business acumen. You have brought this onto yourself, and blaming CIBC and CRA just shows how immature and irresponsible you are. It's harsh, but it's the truth. If you pissed your business income away, don't look for any sympathy here.

- A business owner who pays his taxes!


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## marina628

I would file all your taxes and face the music ,try to work out a deal with them.I am also a business owner and we have our accountant here every couple months to update all the reports so we see our current year tax position and budget accordingly to pay for it.Can you share how much you are in debt to them?


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## houska

It seems you've had a rough time with the business and the economy. With that I sympathize. You're also Flailing At The Injustice and calling others (e.g. CIBC) who are doing exactly what they should ugly names. That's less sympathetic.

If I were you, I would first adjust my attitude, not because someone like me is self-righteously telling you that you should, but because you'll need to in order to resolve the situation. You screwed up and were unlucky, and now you need help because you are effectively bankrupt with some pretty powerful creditors at your heels. Once you adjust your attitude, then I would negotiate a deal with the CRA. I'm not an expert, but that deal may well involve you losing that RRSP, declaring bankruptcy, and starting anew from zilch. That's probably better than keeping the RRSP but having the CRA - and possibly other creditors? - waiting to swoop in the moment you have some more cash. And you will be a lot more credible and effective trying to negotiate that when you have no job and no cash, then when you find a job and are pulling in a cashflow. 

I say this sincerely as the child of parents who emigrated from a totalitarian country to Canada with nothing. A key to restarting effectively was coming to terms with restarting from zero, rather than regretting and scheming what they had left behind.


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## MoneyGal

That is a great post, houska (and, by the way, if your username happens to be your last name, it is my husband's last name also - so I might know whereof you speak). 

Here is a good link on CRA, unpaid taxes, and bankruptcy which sets out the steps you can take to try and resolve the situation: http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/bankruptcy/tax-debts-in-bankruptcy.htm

That link points out that one of the other things you are going to need to do is file your unpaid returns for 2009 and 2010. You may well owe taxes for those years, as well.


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## I'm Howard

I had a similar occurrence years ago, I was eventually right, but in the meantime they collapsed my RRSP and took the money, and of course I was liable for the taxes.

Start paying them something, negotiate a settlement, they can be real arrogant bast##ds, goes with a guaranteed job and indexed Pensions, play nice it really is your only option.

They hold all the cards.


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## kcowan

If you are unemployed,then you have the time to complete your tax returns. When you both know the extent of your debt, it will be possible to negotiate with CRA on a repayment schedule.

Get on with your life. This will not go away. The RRSP money is not yours at this point. And it will atrract no tax because you have no other income.


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## the-royal-mail

I have a certain amount of experience with people who think that by simply ignoring bills and phone calls by creditors, that the problem will go away. "Ha ha can't reach me" type of mentality.

To the OP: what you describe sounds like a nightmare. What I would like to know is why you have not been filing your returns and paying your taxes these past couple of years. Can you explain that to us so we can better understand? Maybe there's a legitimate reason we don't realize? Have you been communicating with revenue canada at all?


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## MoneyGal

kcowan said:


> And it will atrract no tax because you have no other income.


He has social assistance, which is taxable; but as an employable adult he may receive below the personal exemption amount.


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## stardancer

MoneyGal said:


> He has social assistance, which is taxable; but as an employable adult he may receive below the personal exemption amount.


Social assistance is not taxable. You report it as income on line 145, but then it's a deduction on line 250 before calculating taxable income. Because it's a part of your net income, it is used to calculate other benefits such as the Ontario Tax Credit and GST credit. Further, if you receive income from an RSP, CPP, for example, your social assistance is cut back.

In Ontario, the maximum social assistance (now called Ontario Works) for a single adult is between $5000-$6000.


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## OhGreatGuru

brokeandhungry said:


> ..
> I had a successful direct sales business in Hamilton Canada but when the recession hit it completely tanked. I had to give it up last year and find my self with 2 years unfiled tax returns (09/10) and 2 years of unpaid taxes (07/08). My CIBC bank account was frozen and seized by CRA in January and this blocked me from accessing my RRSP account where I have around $3000 set aside.
> ..


It's a bit disingenuous to blame the recession for 4 years of unpaid taxes. Maybe you should have used the RRSP to pay your tax bill in 2007 and then found another line of work.

If your business was losing money there would be no net income to tax. If your business was making money but you spent the profits without setting aside money for taxes whose fault is that? If you weren't making enough to both meet your living expenses and pay your taxes you should have re-considered your business plan 4 years ago.


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## MoneyGal

stardancer said:


> Social assistance is not taxable.


Thanks for the correction. I obviously have no direct experience, for which I'm grateful.


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## Cal

Yeah, if you haven't been working since January, and haven't filed your taxes for the two other years, then it probably looks pretty bad on you part, in that it doesn't appear that you are trying too hard to resolve the issues w CRA.

I would make that your first priority.


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## ghostryder

OhGreatGuru said:


> If your business was losing money there would be no net income to tax.



Maybe no income tax, unremitted GST on the other hand.....


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## fraser

I am quite pleased to hear that CRA are doing their job....ensuring that people report income and pay taxes.

I pay at source and send my remittances in on a timely basis. I file on time and I file correctly. So far, I have not had any bank accounts seized.

I recommend this approach to you in order to avoid situations like this.


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## kcowan

Because businesses tend to scrimp on all non-essential charges, CRA makes company directors personally accountable for tax withholdings. And if you do not file your GST return with remittances, they will apply their best (HIGH) guess at what it should have been and bill you. Nothing gets you current on filings quicker than receiving their guess!

And you can't do a good job on GST filings without preparing your financial statements required to file income tax.


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## Charlie

great advice from Houska re attitude and perspective. (hard to say that without appearing judgmental, which is not my intent). Tapping the $3K is less important then figuring out where you are and how to change it.

Couple of things to consider:

Your RRSP is creditor protected in a bankruptcy if its been in the plan for more then a yr. (I think). If a bankruptcy is in the works -- you might be able to keep your RRSP money if you don't cash it now.

Cashing an RRSP might trigger social assistance repayments. I don't know how this works -- but you should talk to your social assistance officer regarding the consequences. THey do know you have RRSP's, I hope....You should also tell them your account's been seized to see if there's a way to maintain access to your payments.

You need help. Check with http://creditcounsellingcanada.ca/ . It's a non profit credit counselling society -- funded by the banks (I think), -- but genuinely non partisan. I knew a couple of people who worked there and they were top notch. No fees. No hidden agendas. 

Remember....most people who declare bankruptcy (assuming that's an option avail to you) don't have a lot of funds to do it. A scheme to access your remaining RRSP moneys will only defer your troubles for a bit, and may cause more grief then it solves at this point.


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## brokeandhungry

*Interesting*

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Obviously the mentality here is that Im trying to cheat someone and no one wants to give any practical solutions for that reason. I didn't pay my taxes for 3 years because I spent the money expecting to have more to make up for it, very immature and irresponsible I know. I took vacations, bought alcohol, clothes and basically pissed it away on every material comfort you can imagine. Hows that for honesty??? Atleast I made more money as a high school drop out than any person on this forum including the Doctor 

So heres my rant, cuz Im broke, hungry and also angry..

No offense to the semi helpful people in this forum but I find it laughable that you can possibly condone the level of taxation in this country. The best word is *SUCKERS*, because that's what anyone is who doesn't cheat the tax man every chance they get! The biggest criminals in this country are the politicians sending all our jobs overseas to appease the greedy corporate elitists who own this country. The banks and cra and one and the same and we are living in a corrupted corporatist/fascist state posing as a democratic country. If you believe otherwise just do some research and you will see the richest 1% in this country are raking in the $$$ like never before while the middle class evaporates. Who do you vote for to stop free trade and restore the middle class? Oh thats right there is no party like that. Keep living in your dream world thinking that paying 45% of your hard earned income to cra is honorable. I got news for all you government brown nosers its small business owners who built this country not the 5+ million useless twits working for the government sucking the life out of this once great country.

Im sure Dr Dolittle missed that in med school because he was too busy learning how to be better than everyone else and be mr perfect citizen.


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## Cal

brokeandhungry said:


> Atleast I made more money as a high school drop out than any person on this forum including the Doctor
> QUOTE]
> 
> And what do you have to show for it? Alot of people on here, who are helpful to complete strangers in need of advice, might have earned less than you, but they have alot more to show for it.
> 
> Maybe a little too much honesty, in that sentence. Makes me want to reply by saying 'I guess broke and hungry says it all'.
> 
> Keep working on that attitude.
> 
> I am sure that Revenue Canada would find the comments from your post of interest. Cheating the tax man is illegal and wrong. Using one or many of the tax avoidance or deferral methods that are alloweable by our tax system is legal, and essential in keeping our hard earned money in our accounts.


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## DanFo

If we didn't have ungrateful people living off our tax dollars perhaps our taxes wouldn't be so high.....you talk about community and bettering the middle class but I think it is pretty clear you care only for yourself..
you said you made more then doctors....why wouldn't they tax you more since you would have been in the top 10% of earners.... but i guess it is different because your situation was special..


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## DrStan

*The "doctor"*

Haha! I don't know if this piece of work was commenting about me ("the doctor") but I'm not a doctor at all.

Anyhow, his rant just shows what a waste of time the semi-helpful people went through trying to give him advice. Some people can't be helped.

You screwed up, champ, now pay. Your latest response just shows how immature, irresponsible and undeserving of help you are. Spending money on the hopes of making more? I just hope CRA follows you to the grave and taxes the hell out of you. Maybe I'm a sucker for paying taxes, but I'm a millionaire. You have nothing. Sign off and go wash dishes somewhere.


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## marina628

You are right the taxes in Canada are horrible but you have the option to leave the country and pay less taxes if you want.
I am a small business owner myself and every month i remit over $2000 a month to CRA from source deductions from our payroll as we pay ourselves paychecks every month .We also estimate what the corporation will pay and keep this money separate for year end.l do not like doing this but I that is life.My husband had a business about 20 years ago and there was times back then he sent the GST money and the taxes to the government when we had a pile of bills and not sure how we would pay them.Education is not everything ,most of my family have high school diploma and that is it , they are all doing well for themselves.
You admit you got yourself in trouble by blowing the budget, man up accept your situation and do the best you can to resolve your issue now.It does not good to put people ,you obviously have enough skill to find a forum on the internet so go and get a job even if it is for minimum wages ,at least then you can say you are doing your best .


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## ghostryder

brokeandhungry said:


> So heres my rant, cuz Im broke, hungry and also angry..
> 
> No offense to the semi helpful people in this forum but I find it laughable that you can possibly condone the level of taxation in this country. The best word is *SUCKERS*, because that's what anyone is who doesn't cheat the tax man every chance they get!



There is no such thing as "cheating the taxman". Only CHEATING OTHER HONEST TAXPAYERS.




brokeandhungry said:


> If you believe otherwise just do some research and you will see the richest 1% in this country are raking in the $$$ like never before while the middle class evaporates.



You should do some research. The top 5% of income earners in this country pay 40% of all personal income tax collected. All those services provided to the middle class are paid for in large part by the rich people you hate. In fact, the ~200,000 people who are actually in the top 1% pay ~20% of all personal income tax collected.




brokeandhungry said:


> Who do you vote for to stop free trade and restore the middle class? Oh thats right there is no party like that.


Umm, Canada's economy lives & dies on exports. Guess what happens without trade with other countries?




brokeandhungry said:


> Keep living in your dream world thinking that paying 45% of your hard earned income to cra is honorable.



The number of people in this country who actually pay 45% in income tax is relatively small.




brokeandhungry said:


> I got news for all you government brown nosers its small business owners who built this country not the 5+ million useless twits working for the government sucking the life out of this once great country.



I got news for you. It's HONEST small businesses that are the backbone of our economy. Not ones who cheat on their taxes (aka screwing their honest friends, family, neighbours etc). And if you are a business owner who is willing to cheat on your taxes, you probably have no objection to cheating your customers or suppliers either.


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## omegacanuck

*Tax cheat whining while on social assistance*

I think the greatest irony here is that while this looser moans, groans and whines about how he has it so hard and is on social assistance, he has the nerve to come on and brag about being a tax cheat. 

Now, I ask you, where does his moron think the money to support his lazy, non-working butt comes from to give him his free ride? Social assistance is supported by.......taxes!

Given his apparent attitude, I hope a collector from CRA is able to identify this guy and seize his welfare payments as well (pretty sure they can't but nice thought)


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## kcowan

Brokeandhungry says it all. I suppose we have wasted enough bandwidth on this POS.


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## I'm Howard

Canadians are under the impression that they are overtaxed, in actual fact, they are not.

Income Taxes in Canada are certainly higher, and the HST is certainly at least 5% above most State Sales Taxes.

Property Taxes in the U.S can easily hit $12,000 a year, depending upon where you live, Health Insurance, if you qualify easily hits $500 a month for a family and, what most Canadians do not understand, there is a limit as to how much the Insurer will pay out, and there is a deductible.

Catastrophic Illness, you may easily go over what you are Insured for, then it is time to sell the house.

Canada, the Government takes your money and provides you with what is socially necessary, in the States you get your money and you make the decision as to whether to get health Insurance etc.

RRSP Deductions are a better tax break than deducting mortgage interest.

Closing, some comments here ae mean and dispirited and are sure to cause others to refrain from participating.


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## the-royal-mail

kcowan is right. I expect the OP, with that attitude is going to have a long, hard battle with the CRA. I am not getting involved with enabling this behaviour. Some people have to learn the hard way.


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## Plugging Along

I do feel that I pay alot of tax. I am also in the top brackets, so I do feel that I subsidize others. However, how I look at it is it's not different than going in to a high end store or restaurant. If you go into Holt Renfrew, Tiffanies, Birks, Apple, etc (insert you expensive store or restaurant here). and were asked if the prices offer value for the money, or cheap, reasonable, most would say 'no'. if you bought an item from the store the expensive store, would you take another item without paying just to make it fair or to get value from your money because the first one was so expensive? 

You don't go into a fancy restaurant, eat the food, then decide it's too expensive for what you get, and then leave what you feel is fair. In the OPs case, they didn't even pay the bill. If you don't like it, then you don't go into the restaurant or store. Same with our country, the taxes are the law, just like paying for your meal at a restaurant. You don't get to choose what is fair, you follow the rules, and suck it up or shop elsewhere.


If anything, it should be I and all the people here that pay their taxes. It is the very high taxes that you are complaing about in which I pay, that is providing your Social Assistance.
In the OP's case, it gets worse, they not only didn't pay for meal, but then if the restaurant caught them and found out, and banned them from the place, and asked for their money back. The OP is blaming them for being crooks from trying to recover what the OP 'stole'. 

I think the two posts by the OP shows alot about him. I think he should be angry, but really at himself. He screwed up the first time (we all have), but trying to get around it now that he got caught, shows he still hasn't learned responbility for his actions.


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## brokeandhungry

*Hahahaha*

Hahahaha idiots, I called cra and told them I had a job and I was going to start making payments, they released my accounts and rrsp and now I got the money and am going to go bankrupt on everything! *They aint getting a dime!* Guess I am smarter than revenue canada, lmao. Ponder on that! Btw who puts their name as "DrStan" when they arent even a doctor, what a wannabe!!! Oh man Im so happy, Im gonna go get drunk!  pce


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## financialnoob




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## MoreMiles

brokeandhungry said:


> Hahahaha idiots, I called cra and told them I had a job and I was going to start making payments, they released my accounts and rrsp and now I got the money and am going to go bankrupt on everything! *They aint getting a dime!* Guess I am smarter than revenue canada, lmao. Ponder on that! Btw who puts their name as "DrStan" when they arent even a doctor, what a wannabe!!! Oh man Im so happy, Im gonna go get drunk!  pce


Bankrupt for $3000 as stated in your original message? Yup... don't spend it in one place


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## GOB

brokeandhungry said:


> Hahahaha idiots, I called cra and told them I had a job and I was going to start making payments, they released my accounts and rrsp and now I got the money and am going to go bankrupt on everything! *They aint getting a dime!* Guess I am smarter than revenue canada, lmao. Ponder on that! Btw who puts their name as "DrStan" when they arent even a doctor, what a wannabe!!! Oh man Im so happy, Im gonna go get drunk!  pce


A bankrupt alcoholic with attitude problems...we're all green with envy


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## DanFo

lying to the government probably will just lead to fraud charges which may be easily discovered when you file the papers....Having a criminal record probably won't help you out too much moving forward in life but your attitude on this forum suggests your not too willing to make an honest living anyway.

...at the feast of ego everyone goes away hungry


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## marina628

Maybe they have the payment arrangements on recording and can add Fraud to his issues.What goes around comes around .


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