# Selling MF in Non-Reg Account



## Loon (Apr 12, 2012)

I sold all of my mutual funds last year, including some in a non-registered account. I'm preparing my tax return in UFile and it wants to know the Date of Acquisition. I purchased in 2005 then added to the position in subsequent years, but sold it all at once. 

Can I just put the date of the initial purchase, or do I have to break it up into multiple sell transactions?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

You'd have to specify when you bought each batch of units. ACB calculations can get messy for this reason.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

It's almost impossible to be precise with the Cap Gain calculation for a MF that one has owned for many years and has quarterly distributions of new units, as well as more units bought and sold over the years. I just sold all of a MF last year that I started buying in 1992! What I do is use the Quicken calculated ACB, and the first date I started buying it. Do you really think CRA has the information or the time to question this stuff?


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## Loon (Apr 12, 2012)

Add to this that for a while we were reinvesting our monthly distributions. Then we sold half in May and the rest in Nov after some DSC wore off. I don't even see how it would be possible to pair up buys and sells. So nasty. My stock portfolio is going to remain simple and sweet.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Always use the oldest date. I have no inside info on this, but it is my opinion that the only use that date has is in determining if it is a real capital gain or if you are more of a day trader, where the gains should be applied as income. I assume that CRA has a subroutine to pop out any returns where there is a large number of entries with almost all of them purchased in 2012. Anything older then that will go through.

That is my guess.


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## Loon (Apr 12, 2012)

OptsyEagle said:


> Always use the oldest date. I have no inside info on this, but it is my opinion that the only use that date has is in determining if it is a real capital gain or if you are more of a day trader, where the gains should be applied as income. I assume that CRA has a subroutine to pop out any returns where there is a large number of entries with almost all of them purchased in 2012. Anything older then that will go through.


Maybe that is it. I thought it might have to do holding the same securities when the capital gains tax exemption was different than 50% in which case a funky calculation would give a different exemption. I think it's been 50% since well before 2005 so I should be ok. 

Oldest date makes sense to me. The resulting number should be exactly the same either way.


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## stardancer (Apr 26, 2009)

Loon said:


> Maybe that is it. I thought it might have to do holding the same securities when the capital gains tax exemption was different than 50% in which case a funky calculation would give a different exemption. I think it's been 50% since well before 2005 so I should be ok.
> 
> Oldest date makes sense to me. The resulting number should be exactly the same either way.


It doesn't matter if you bought when the cap gain exemption was different; what counts is when you sell it, whatever the exemption is then. I keep track of the ACB of funds/stocks on a spreadsheet; then report the last date of purchase and the last date of sale for each fund/stock. If CRA questions the ACB, I can send them the spreadsheet and/or statements. So far, no questions from them.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Loon said:


> I sold all of my mutual funds last year, including some in a non-registered account...
> 
> Can I just put the date of the initial purchase, or do I have to break it up into multiple sell transactions?


If there is only one sale, then the initial purchase date is the date to use. 

Any new unit purchased, dividends re-invested (treated the same as new purchases), different types of payments such as return of capital (RoC) that affect the adjusted cost base (ACB) will have to be calculated on your own. The final ACB for the total for the units sold are entered in Schedule 3.


Cheers


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

Loon said:


> I sold all of my mutual funds last year, including some in a non-registered account. I'm preparing my tax return in UFile and it wants to know the Date of Acquisition. I purchased in 2005 then added to the position in subsequent years, but sold it all at once.
> 
> Can I just put the date of the initial purchase, or do I have to break it up into multiple sell transactions?


Don't know how to handle it in UFile, but a couple of references I looked at indicated that you should show the years over which you acquired the units. 
See:
http://www.agf.com/static/en/doc/PFSL188_01-10-E_TaxBooklet2319.pdf
and
https://www.invesco.ca/publicPortal...mmon/library/PDF/tax_planning/TET3T5//eBinary


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## Loon (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks Guban. I'll see what my tax guy does. I was doing ufile to see if I could get it to match up with his, but then it got hairy and I gave up. Next year should be a lot more simple, with dividend stocks, mostly buy and hold with only minor adjustments, and no ROC. I'll get this one blessed by the pro and then potentially do it myself next year. 

The fund company was nice enough to send an ACB and gain/loss summary for 2012 which included monthly adjustments as I got paid each distribution. That, along with the sale confirmations, spell everything out in terms of proceeds, ACB, and gain/loss. I really hope I don't have to pay the accountant to reconstruct a sequence of monthly distro reinvestment transactions just to come up with the exact same numbers I got from the fund company. But I'll pay, just to get my former advisor's mess cleaned up. 

Can I write off the accountant's fee? I only have one reference to this which suggests I can if:

...
the cost of having your tax return prepared, only if 
you had income from business or property (includes income from securities),
...

I basically just have a income from a job, and investments in registered accounts, plus dividend paying stocks in a non-registered account.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

Loon said:


> Can I write off the accountant's fee? I only have one reference to this which suggests I can if:
> 
> ...
> the cost of having your tax return prepared, only if
> ...


I am under the understanding that you can deduct the incremental cost of having your tax prepared. So if it would have cost you say, $100 to have your taxes prepared without the dividend paying stocks, but with them, it cost you $150, then you could deduct $50. The cost of registered products is not deductable.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Loon said:


> Add to this that for a while we were reinvesting our monthly distributions. Then we sold half in May and the rest in Nov after some DSC wore off.
> 
> I don't even see how it would be possible to pair up buys and sells. So nasty. My stock portfolio is going to remain simple and sweet.


There is no need to pair buys and sells up. There are two sell dates for each half sold.

So you need to start with the initial cost, then recalculate for each distribution or re-investment that affects the ACB.

Using this URL's method:
http://howtoinvestonline.blogspot.ca/2009/01/etfs-and-mutual-funds-calculating.html

At the first sale, the ACB will be:
ACB =Total Paid to Purchase Shares/Units (minus fees and commissions)
plus
Reinvested Distributions (all of Capital Gains, Income and Dividends)
minus
Return of Capital (ROC)
divided by 2.


At the second sale, it will be:

ACB =Total Paid to Purchase Shares/Units (minus fees and commissions)
plus
Reinvested Distributions (all of Capital Gains, Income and Dividends)
minus
Return of Capital (ROC)
minus
ACB of Previous Sales of Shares/Units (i.e. whatever value was calculated at the time of the first sale)



Personally, I prefer to keep a listing of the current ACB per unit. When sold, the ACB is simply # units sold x current ACB but at the end of the day, whatever method works for one is best.

Cheers


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