# Skilled Trades?



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

After being laid off from Alberta where I was surveying I am looking at getting into something different. I used to landscape and loved it but to many people undercutting so I am looking for a skilled trade

Currently I am looking at electrical, plumbing or working for a general contracting company and then one day opening up my own. I am an entrepreneur at heart so I will eventually like to start my own company (likely GC). Looking at picking up a trade as a solid fall back and to open doors into the construction world.

Talking to my trades friends it like residential plumbers are in serious need. It seems like electrical is becoming very common for people to get into. Electrical does has the advantage though to more industrial jobs its seems from looking around.

Any advice would be appreciated


----------



## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

All I can offer is that I was really interested in becoming an electrician back in 2012. I read all the textbooks, began working on electrical projects at home, I was very keen and interested. 

When I started looking for apprenticeships it became quickly apparent that it was really difficult to find opportunity. The majority of small business owners have little interest in developing employees and prefer to hire seasoned apprentices or red seal electricians. As I had no background in trades or building, it was for the most part a non-starter, even though I've completed a lot of projects around the house and major jobs on my vehicles (like installing a supercharger by myself). 

These says I think the scene for trades in Western Canada is bleak at the moment. The single biggest issues with trades is the economic sensitivity. I have a friend that is a red seal electrician that has gone through many cycles of boom, bust, layoff. Not to mention it is often dirty and dangerous work.

Cutting to the chase I eventually went into accounting, which is significantly more stable, but it's still a soul sucking profession that I would have trouble recommending to anyone.


----------



## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

If you're looking for 'general' experience, IMO you're better off going the carpentry route. I don't think it's common for house builders to hire electricians and plumbers directly... some do, but it's more typical that they hire subcontractors. So if you were an electrical or plumber apprentice, you may only find a job with a sub, meaning you'd only be on site for your trade's rough-in, and finish install, and miss all the other stages. It would be more so this way for commercial and industrial construction.

It's also key to look for smaller companies, you will have a wider variety of tasks versus a larger company where you might get pigeonholed into repeating the same work day after day. The bigger companies would have crews who go from site to site doing the same thing... if we're talking housebuilding here, a crew for foundation work, a crew for framing, a guy or two for finish carpentry, a guy or two for cabinetry... however, if I recall correctly (it's been a while since I've been involved in housebuilding), you don't actually need a ticket to be a carpenter for single family homes. So if you're looking for a ticketed trade and want to go the carpentry route, may be better to look at commercial.

CPA Candidate brings up some good points which reminds me, you should go for a red seal ticket so that you can move from province to province, and you may be better off moving somewhere else for the time being to do your apprenticeship.


----------



## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I have worked as a mechanic for 38 years,done ok
My oldest is a carpenter and electrician,done ok
My youngest just started a millwright apprenticeship pay is only 16 to start
Middle child is a Plumber so all you have to know is thst shi? runs downhill

Volunteer for a contractor and talk to trades people and see what interest you

Some trade you go to the place of work to do the work(travel

As with me I work in a shop and the work comes to me,for me the cost of tools is large maybe 120k in tools

Electrician is a multimeter and a screwdriver plus a lot of travel

All trades pay very well with lots of overtime if you want it,I have worked for the last 7 years 3 days a week,just change jobs now work 4 days a week,you can make as much money as you like,if you have a 310t and 310s as I have

Good luck,trades are the best,plus lots of work out there ,,,you can change jobs or provinces as you like ,,,very large demand for trades people


goood luck


----------



## spirit (May 9, 2009)

Hi. Good luck in your career search. I am married to a retired electrician. During his working life he made very good money. He also went through a lot of layoffs where he did not work. Once he drove across Canada for work and when he got there, the job shut down and he had to drive all the way back. He worked up north in camps....a 6 hour drive each way, every weekend. He worked outdoors in 40 below weather and in the scorching heat. But he was very good at his job and proud of his skills. He can fix anything mechanical because he learned a lot from the trades beside him and they learned from him. 

He also married a woman with a good steady job and a pension who was able to work when he was laid off. (;

In the end.....he worked hard all his life, saved money and lived below his means. I think that is the winning ticket no matter which job you work at........and again...if you are serious about your trade you work at it....over many years....and it should pay off. Get going (;


----------



## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Could always become a pilot. I have found it very rewarding. It has it's ups and downs though.


----------



## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

FWIW, have dealt with a lot of tradesmen the last few months (renovating). I am handy-(ish) and so hang around a lot and ask a lot of nosey questions. Generally everyone agreed that electricians have the best longevity. Carpenters/contractors suffer physically. Brickies and masons suffer. Plumbers.. well.. it can be tough. You don't see a lot of old masons and few old carpenters (unless they specialize in restoration or cabinet making, etc..) because they get worn out physically by the job. 

Plumbers seem to make the most, followed by electricians. If you don't think you can get rich quick-ish at it, you might consider the longevity factor.


----------



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow thanks for the great responses! Lots to think about. I am currently living in the GTA not Alberta to clear that up. 

While I was in Alberta I was on an oil sand site and dealt with the extreme temperatures and it was alright. Did it for three years so I defiantly didn't hate it. The thing I noticed was electricians and pipping crews would come do there bit then get laid off. Industrial is defiantly where the money is but I feel for my self residential construction is something I enjoy. More job satisfaction when you can walk away from the project and see the client excited to move in or use the space. I have pretty good contacts within the industry so I just have to make up my mind. 

I think my best bet is to work for a GC company see what I like then phone a friend when I have decided.


----------



## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

30seconds said:


> Wow thanks for the great responses! Lots to think about. I am currently living in the GTA not Alberta to clear that up.
> 
> While I was in Alberta I was on an oil sand site and dealt with the extreme temperatures and it was alright. Did it for three years so I defiantly didn't hate it. The thing I noticed was electricians and pipping crews would come do there bit then get laid off. Industrial is defiantly where the money is but I feel for my self residential construction is something I enjoy. More job satisfaction when you can walk away from the project and see the client excited to move in or use the space. I have pretty good contacts within the industry so I just have to make up my mind.
> 
> I think my best bet is to work for a GC company see what I like then phone a friend when I have decided.


I see that you have a plan

Good luck,all trades work out


----------



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Ideally my plan would be to open full service residential contracting company. To get there I would work with contracting companies to see the "on site" side of things while taking business/project management courses to get a better understanding of the business side of things. Doing that though I tie my self to the residential housing market which I think is over inflated and full of cracks. That's why I am looking at picking up a Red Seal trade as not only a good career choice but also a back up to my 
"dream career". Four years is a short amount of time to set my self up for when I have more responsibilities.


----------



## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am small potato`s to you

Good luck


----------



## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Ag Driver said:


> Could always become a pilot. I have found it very rewarding. *It has it's ups and downs though.*


I hope I'm not the only one that saw this!

30seconds it's a good plan to go the trade route then work your way up (I'd say it's better than getting a management diploma or degree anyway... that hands-on experience is invaluable, even if your first job is straightening nails or looking for a left-handed screwdriver)

You might even find that starting a business within your trade is the right thing for you, rather than expanding into general contracting.


----------



## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> I hope I'm not the only one that saw this!
> 
> 30seconds it's a good plan to go the trade route then work your way up (I'd say it's better than getting a management diploma or degree anyway... that hands-on experience is invaluable, even if your first job is straightening nails or looking for a left-handed screwdriver)
> 
> You might even find that starting a business within your trade is the right thing for you, rather than expanding into general contracting.


Are we going from trades to running them


----------



## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm not really sure what you're asking me...


----------



## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> I'm not really sure what you're asking me...


Not asking anything

I have been in trades my life time as is my dad and my 3 boy`s

All of us have done well

as anyone in the trades would have done


----------



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Barwelle said:


> I hope I'm not the only one that saw this!
> 
> 30seconds it's a good plan to go the trade route then work your way up (I'd say it's better than getting a management diploma or degree anyway... that hands-on experience is invaluable, even if your first job is straightening nails or looking for a left-handed screwdriver)
> 
> You might even find that starting a business within your trade is the right thing for you, rather than expanding into general contracting.


I am looking at doing management/business courses on the side. Most of them are certificates which I know do not mean to much but I am doing it for my own education and not so much for the paper that comes with it. 
Once I do pick a trade and get going with it I agree I may enjoy it so much that I stick with it! I guess my vision right now is a contracting company but that may change 

As much as I enjoy doing the work I also greatly enjoyed meeting with clients, making plans and the business aspect of the industry to. Thats why Barwelle is talking about running them

I ran a small landscape company for a couple of summers when I was in college and a bit after. I went to alberta with a one year plan to come back and start a landscape company.. got a good camp job and stayed with that for three.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I watched a report that one of the most in demand trades right now in Ontario (around the Great Lakes area) is marine mechanics.

I believe there is only one or two colleges that offer the program and the graduates easily find jobs.

If you want to live in cottage country or near the water..........it is a trade that offers mobility.

Another trade in big demand but few applicants is canvas and upholstery trades. Replacing seats in boats, cars...........or manufacturing tarps and sunshades, lots of variety.

Electrician and plumber..........I don't know about those two. There are lots of laid off electricians and plumbers from closed manufacturing plants looking for work.

It is hard to get an apprenticeship, but the new budget contains some cash for employers to hire them. Small employers don't want to pay people to stand around and learn the trade.

My son worked in all aspect of concrete from foundations to sidewalks and patios. It was hard work and didn't pay that well........$15-$17 per hour.

He currently is a custom fence installer and loves the job. There is lots of work and the pay is average.......$20-$25 an hour with lots of overtime at $30 per hour.

He was asked by his employer if he is interested in replacing his companies sub-contractor when he retires this year, but we don't know about that idea.

The more we dig into it and all the extra expenses, the more we think he should just stay as an employee for the company.

There is no money available anywhere to start a business. Any lender wants a previous history of sales, earnings for several years before they will lend to a small business.

The government is useless and provides nothing but fancy websites that link to each other. Eventually they tell you to talk to the bank or borrow from your parents.

Just saying.......there is a reason a lot of trade people work on the auto assembly lines at GM and Toyota. There are all kinds of trade guys working dummy jobs on the line.

One of my work pals owned his own plumbing business and quit to work at GM. He said he spent half his time trying to collect from dead beat customers.

Another guy I know operated a roofing business. They were replacing a roof and were done for the day. He told one of his employees to cover the roof with a tarp. The employee forgot and it poured rain all night causing $50,000 in damage. The home owners were away. He lost the suit in court and had to pay the damages. That hurt but that is what can happen when you are the owner.

Owning your own business is a nice concept but requires wearing a lot of hats. Everything from employer to debt collector to going to court.

If you can manage it there could be great job satisfaction and rewards. If not there could be lots of stress and trouble.


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...2 words: bricks, masonry .... you'll never be short of work & right now good masons are in big demand....


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I agree with that and would include stucco as well.

But I would say go to a good training center to learn the trade. I believe there is one run by a union in Toronto.

If you just show up and ask for a job with a bricklayer, you will end up slugging bricks all day and never get put on "the wall".


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

sags said:


> I agree with that and would include stucco as well.
> 
> But I would say go to a good training center to learn the trade. I believe there is one run by a union in Toronto.
> 
> If you just show up and ask for a job with a bricklayer, you will end up slugging bricks all day and never get put on "the wall".


(unfortunately, SOME of us DO live outside -way outside- the GTA center of the universe... )


----------



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Good points sags. Marine mechanics would probably be a fun job.. get in with the police division and I am set!

My uncle is a plumber and is laid off atm. I guess the way I see that many people who get into trades want to work for companies that provide pension. I know the ups and downs of owning a company as my parents have one but I feel that is part of the enjoyment. Also you can write off a lot of stuff and I feel if you are good at what you do (like anything) you will have work. 

I couldn't see my self standing on a scaffold deck for 10 hours a day doing brick work. I did a lot of hardscape work while landscaping and really enjoyed doing bbq's and walls but that makes up a small portion of what a red seal brick layer does.. at least I assume.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Most carpenters go on to self employment or supervisory positions after a few years if they are worth their salt.

It was a great path to early retirement for myself and one of my boys went on to be a Business Development Advisor with an international engineering/construction firm after only 4 years of obtaining his journeyman ticket.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

If a college education is an acceptable part of the journey, there is also the technical fields, that offer opportunities.

My sister in law has worked for decades as a lab technician in a police forensics crime lab. Interesting work, comfortable workplace, decent wages and a pension.

The railroads run their own courses at specific colleges, which can lead to a lot of different job categories. They also hire track inspectors who travel across the country in a "gang" inspecting track with use of special technology in a rail car. Check their websites for job offerings.

The government offers a myriad of job opportunities. Game wardens and conservation officers. Different ministries. Inside and outside jobs.

Lots of opportunity for people who think outside the normal small group of jobs.

My main point is to look around and consider a lot of possibilities. There is no fun in hating your job and dreading going to work every day.


----------



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Education is defiantly not off of the table.

After having a conversation with a co worker it came down to.. getting a skilled trade always good but why not shoot for what you want (owning a full service residential construction company). How I would get there would be to start by landscaping and through that get into other areas of the business, hiring people as required. Made some phone calls, even looked at a truck yesterday.. Then having a conversation with my mother she asks... remember why you didnt want to get back into landscaping? Ah yes under cutting and any dummy with a truck can do it. Here I am back at the drawing board lol


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It sounds like you would like to start a general contracting business, subbing the actual work out to a network of trusted trades people.

Home Depot does that, and I have known a couple of guys who had successful businesses doing it as well.

You would need to develop a network of trades people, build a website and advertise in the local area, and attend to the business side of things...........scheduling and billing etc.

I think to do it, you will need some basic knowledge of trades but more specific crucial knowledge on how to run a profitable business.


----------

