# How to get back money that I lent to somebody?..



## GEorGE2 (Aug 10, 2011)

Guys, first of all I admit I was an idiot  and maybe still I am if I didn't forget about it and still hope to get back my money...
I'll give full story, some of you may had similar experience and might be able to give good advise that might eventually help me.

In short, I had a friend and I lent him money 30K. He went to work to Edmonton and wanted to start a small shop there, so I lent him. It wasn't any sort of investment, I just helped a friend. He was doing quite well and was making good money. Eventually, he repaid like 12K. His business was progressing really well, he had a very good idea to import construction materials (he was in this business, he was importing from china for a few years already for his own shop). He had a clear sharp idea on how to succeed. He asked me for 170K. I took a flight to Edmonton, to see myself how he was doing. He was doing very well. Basically, he simply wanted to borrow that money. Guys, I was absolutely sure that he was going to succeed after seeing what he had achieved.
Anyways, at the same time his company won a construction contract for little bit over $2M. From this $2M contract his company would make at least 600K profit in 3-4 months. That was the highest contract he had ever taken. So, even if I had gievn him 170K he would be able to make that money anyways. But honestly, we were good friends at some time and he simply wanted me to quit my job and join him in his business. Then, here's what happened... I didn't give that 170K, I gave him only 20K (plus 18K that he owned), he got some of his own money and he placed a huge order with manufacturer, we had a full time inspectors in china visiting manufacturers to find best one and eventually he placed the order. So, he made 80K down to the manufacturer and after a week or two he left to china. His simply disappeared... even though I trusted him i started to worry, I wrote him a couple of agree mails, wtf he disappeared etc, what's the progress etc. He wrote me back that he'll be back from china in a week and will get in touch with me.

So, when he came back I've heard the story... in short, he had a financial company crediting his contracts and they were supposed to give him like 1M so he would be able to do the contract. He was planning to use part of this money to finance that construction material that he ordered from china. When he was visiting Chinese manufacturer and inspected produced product he got bad news that the financing company refused to give money for the contract. He was trapped in china, chinese were threatening him when they became specious that he came himself but do not wire remaining balance. In short, one night he ran away from that place, took taxi and took a flight that same day.
In canada the general contractor gave that contract to another bidder and sued his company for 750K. He paid out remaining salaries to workers with the rest of the money that he had...

From other ppl I know that he started to use cocaine, drink too much etc... he had no money left at all (as he said), he had to place his car for sale (a fancy porsche, even though it wasn't new it was worth around 30K)

Sooo, I simply morally supported him, I wasn't pushing for my money (he owes me around 40K, all the money I lent him personally). I talked to some friends, I talked to his relatives... I found out that there were 2-3 other people (including his accountant who new his finances well) that lent him similar amounts of money. In total, I was told by his relative he owes around 100K.


SOOOO.... I talked to a few people there, and I became suspicious. First of all, that idea with construction material was great and if there was 75K out of 300K paid down, plus he knew that business inside out, it was relatively easy to find interested investors to start that business. I had interested people, so I asked him to give more details etc... he simply didn't give any details, while I expected him to jump all over the place because literary I was getting him back into game when I lost everything. At this point, I realizes that he probably lied to me that he made that 75K downpayment to chinese factory. This downpayment is lost money according to him, but that material wasn't sold out yet for sure... Then, another part, his put his car for sale, once sold he'll get some cash... That's basically end of story. I didn't push him about my money, I still think that he will repay it to me, but it might take LOOOONG time if at all he'll do it.


Now time for a few questions. First of all, I'll try to check if he lied to me about chinese downpayment, if I find out that my friend became a crook then I want to be able to do all I can to get back everything that's possible.
I'll list stuff that I think to do: I 
1) made my employee transfer money from my company account to his personal. Is that possible to claim that there was a mistake and somehow request a bank to get that money back?  because I think that this money is still on his personal account and nothing ever was transferred to chinese (otherwise he would be looking himself how to get that money back, by reselling that material or looking for other investors).
2) file some kind of claim against him and eventually get his property/bank account arrested. His success was so quick that he didn't even purchase RE yet, he lived in a rental house. All he had was a fancy car, but it's quite likely that he keeps money on his account (I have some ground to believe so, based on conversation with some of his ex employees). I never asked him direct question if he has money, but when he called a few times he said that it was first time in his life he didn't have money to buy cigarettes.
3) his accountant and the other creditor (I don't know if they invested in his business, or lent him personally) may start doing some actions, they may take ownership of the car etc and in this case I'll be left out. Obviously, he won't notify me about that (he didn't say that he owes to somebody else, but I know that).

For a proof, all I have is a wire transfer to him of all these money and a few transfers back from him, he also sent me signed paper that he borrowed that amount from me (even though I didn't ask him).

So, anybody had experience on how to act in this situation? Can I know if somebody placed a claim against him, what kind of chances I might have if I go against him, what if he declares personal bankruptcy (that will mean that he won't have to pay me back?!) In short, I want to make it as legal as possible to make his debt known

Any ideas?



thanks everybody!


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

GEorGE2 said:


> From other ppl I know that he started to use cocaine, drink too much etc... he had no money left at all (as he said), he had to place his car for sale (a fancy porsche, even though it wasn't new it was worth around 30K)
> .. I talked to some friends, I talked to his relatives... I found out that there were 2-3 other people (including his accountant who new his finances well) that lent him similar amounts of money. In total, I was told by his relative he owes around 100K.
> 
> .. Then, another part, his put his car for sale, once sold he'll get some cash... That's basically end of story. ...I'll try to check if he lied to me about chinese downpayment, if I find out that my friend became a crook ...So, anybody had experience on how to act in this situation? Any ideas?
> ...


It is distressing when friends end up as addicts and destroy relationships and the trust that holds them together. I applaud your efforts to help your friend, but having heard and seen many cases that match the one that your describe, your friend will need to ..probably...hit the bottom of all despair, and join get help from professionals, and from any other (non-financial) sources. If he is addicted to cocaine (you refer only to rumours of use), then this is particularly bad news - few of them actually stay clean. I wish you well..but your money may well be gone...until he undergoes treatment and succeeds, and gets back on his feet...aside from this, call your lawyer, and get more agressive in getting what money you can, returned to you.


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Sounds like a con game from beginning to end. If your "friend" has truly sunk into addiction during it, it's just one more tragedy. But the rumours of his addiction could also be a contrived excuse for his behaviour to discourage legal action by his creditors.

It may be worth your while to have a meeting with his other creditors to discuss the situation and the likelihood of recovery. You might be able to save money by hiring one lawyer to represent all of you. But I'm betting that trying to sue him will be sending good money after bad - either the money is gone or he has successfully hidden it and is planning to move on to his next con.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow this sounds really scary.

I would have done it differently. Friends are great, but there are limitations. You can help out a friend in need based upon your own paramaters. I would never personally give this kind of money, though that's meaningless because I don't actually have that kind of money to give.

I personally think lending money between friends is a very bad thing to do.


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

PS:
_Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
...
William Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 3_


----------



## Easy Does It (Sep 24, 2010)

A long time ago I had lent someone money and had my lawyer draw up the papers. A few months later he stopped paying me and disappeared. I seeked the services of a collection company and was able to affect his credit bureau. Oddly enough I ended up finding out that he was in the process of getting divorced and I was also able to track him down and confronted him. The way that the loan note was set up had many variables that could be triggered if he missed a payment or payments. I found this feature to be good in letting the borrower know that if he did miss payments it would become expensive to do so. The rational is to try and make it very unappealing not repaying the loan. He kept threatening me that he would declare bankruptcy and I would get nothing. A few weeks later I received paper work that he had filled for a consumer proposal. I was told I would get about $0.20 on the dollars which was not acceptable to me so I called a creditors meeting. At the meeting I told him that I was seeking nothing less than 100% repayment and if he didn’t agree he could file for bankruptcy right then and there, he never thought I would play this hand since it meant I got nothing. In the end he made some more payments but he disappeared again, declared bankruptcy and I was only able to get back about 60% of the loan. Lesson learned.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I have had numerous opportunities to invest with friends and acquaintences. I have never done it. One friend is still a friend even though he has stiffed many of our mutual friends.

Trying to be nice will never get you a dime!


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

GEorGE2 said:


> Guys, first of all I admit I was an idiot  and maybe still I am if I didn't forget about it and still hope to get back my money...
> ...


I wouldn't call you an idiot. But you made the common mistake of thinking you were "lending money to a friend" when you were really lending it to his risky business venture. He had no other security or income to repay you with if it didn't pan out.

The question you ought to have asked yourself is: "If it's such a good business investment, how come he has to borrow from me instead of the bank?"

The probable answers are either:
a) He was know to be a bad credit risk; or,
b) The experts at small business loans thought his business plan was too risky; or
c) Both of the above.

All good reasons for you not to provide him with venture capital either.


----------



## Xander (Apr 3, 2009)

About six years ago I lent a friend $4500 on a handshake. He had what I thought was a good idea and I trusted him to pay me back. 
To make a long story short I've never seen a penny. Since I loaned him the cash he's bought a house 30% bigger and worth at least 30% more than mine. He's separated from his wife. (this only happened in the last year). He's found a new girl, fallen in love, bought his second BMW in the last 10 yrs, went on trips out west, rented cottages up north, weekends away etc....

Never once has he attempted to pay back any of what he owes. It always amazes me how people will piss away there reputation so willingly. Even more amazing is this guy did it for $4500. Now if we were talking 4.5 million I could maybe see why but for a few grand....

Anyway, I tried to help a friend that I trusted. I got f**ked. Lesson learned. I can survive without the money but it the priciple that really gets to me. 

Karma is a ***** and I believe if you screw someone you'll end up getting it back 10 fold in one way or another at some point in your life.

On a personal note. I do not talk about this with mutal friends BUT when asked why I don't speak to or attend events this guy has anymore I calmly explain why. At the very least I can be sure these people know not to loan this parasite anything.


----------



## jagger (Jan 12, 2011)

I learned my lesson in high school, where I often lent "lunch money" to friends who were hungry. I've also been burned for a few hundred bucks once, but it just a few hundred. Now I will only lend to close family, and even then with extreme caution.


----------



## GEorGE2 (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks for replies,

I wrote a reply here, but for some reason it's still not here (there was a note that it will wait for moderator approval).

Anyways, there something I remembered. He also made a joint venture with one person, it required a lot of cash investment to get the job done. Both of them hold 50/50 and each of them invested like 30-40K. I could take control of this venture, but it's a risky idea and I wouldn't like to be involved, but it could be a better alternative than hoping that he'll pay me back some time in the future...

I hope my previous reply will end up here as well.


----------

