# Heatwave



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

One has to take the heat seriously, it can be deadly. Police in the Greater Vancouver area are reporting roughly 100 sudden / excess deaths over the last three days, they are not diagnosed but very likely due to the heatwave.

Two keys to handling high heat

(1) stay hydrated. If your pee is dark yellow, you aren't drinking enough water. A problem with hydration is that you have to "stay ahead" of the situation because once you get dehydrated it can be challenging to catch up. So as soon as the heat arrives, start drinking water aggressively and calibrate using the pee colour.

(2) reduce and relieve body temperature. Cold showers are good, but it's even better to immerse yourself in a cold bathtub, since immersion will really help drop your body's temperature. Other tricks are soaking a shirt in cold water and wearing that, or soaking a hat, or soaking a towel in cold water and wrapping that around your head/body.

Avoid alcohol, since it does not help with handling heat. Also think of places you can escape to. I don't have air conditioning, but my apartment building has AC in the lobby, and the stairwells and parking garage are also very cool.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Except for the pool and being out early morning and late evening. we are staying indoors. Central A/C has been running non-stop here in the Okanagan since about Noon. Currently 44C at 5:50pm. We are used to hot summers but not quite at this level.

A number of places have been opened up for those needing relief from the heat, especially our homeless population. I imagine there have been a number of heat related deaths.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I heard this heatwave is moving easterly ... next stop will be Alberta, then Saskatchewan ... Ontario currently ain't that cool either. Very humid. We're getting torrential rainfall all week, including COTU Toronto. This trend sure looks like global warming.

PS: An electrical fan works well in circulating the air if the AC isn't enough.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Insane weather in BC.

It has been warm in Toronto but only seasonably so. Similar to Vancouver, around low 30s. But most homes here have A/C as the summers are usually quite sweltering. The 40s in the interior are shocking, though! Hopefully it is not too humid.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

It's been extremely tragic. They're still discovering more heat-related deaths. Many elderly live alone, so the deceased are only discovered when a relative tries to check up on them.

The official Vancouver temperature on the news is very misleading because it's taken at Vancouver International Airport, which is basically on an island surrounded by the Strait of Georgia. In fact, many areas around Vancouver saw 40C and higher. Abbotsford reached 43C yesterday with a humidex of 50C! That's only 70 km from Vancouver. But you didn't have to go that far... just a few km inland and you had temps close to 40C with humidex values reaching the mid to upper 40's.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

And some idiots contribute it to "global warming" LOL
And Canada contributes barely 1.5% to so-call "global warming"....
Same time, in Moscow (one of the biggest contributor to so-call "global warming" now 17C, in Tel Aviv 24C (usually is 35+ this time of year).
Maybe Canada produced too much maple syrup this year LOL


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> And some idiots contribute it to "global warming" LOL
> And Canada contributes barely 1.5% to so-call "global warming"....
> Same time, in Moscow (one of the biggest contributor to so-call "global warming" now 17C, in Tel Aviv 24C (usually is 35+ this time of year).
> Maybe Canada produced too much maple syrup this year LOL


Honestly, go take it somewhere else. Climate <> weather.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Honestly, go take it somewhere else. Climate <> weather.


That what I'm talking about! Couple of very hot days and greta thunberg's followers start attributing it to "global warming" .
After 2 years of Covid lockdowns and money grab Liberal carbon taxes - it's actually should be "global freezing" 😂


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

nathan79 said:


> many areas around Vancouver saw 40C and higher. Abbotsford reached 43C yesterday with a humidex of 50C!


 Prohibitively expensive and now also uncomfortable to live.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> Except for the pool and being out early morning and late evening. we are staying indoors. Central A/C has been running non-stop here in the Okanagan since about Noon. Currently 44C at 5:50pm. We are used to hot summers but not quite at this level.


Those are insane temperatures. I don't mean to sound alarmist but I also suggest making a back-up plan, in case of power outages. There's got to be a pretty serious load on local transformer substations etc. It might be worth thinking about what to do if there is extended power loss, as unlikely as that may be. Visit someone else? Hide out in your vehicle? Basement?

Depends on what powers your AC of course.

I have some friends in Portland where it got as high as 45, similar to yours. One of my friends told me that his central AC had trouble keeping up and the upper floors were well over 30. So they closed those vents, abandoned the upper part of the house and focused on lower floors and the basement.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

nathan79 said:


> The official Vancouver temperature on the news is very misleading because it's taken at Vancouver International Airport, which is basically on an island surrounded by the Strait of Georgia. In fact, many areas around Vancouver saw 40C and higher. Abbotsford reached 43C yesterday with a humidex of 50C! That's only 70 km from Vancouver. But you didn't have to go that far... just a few km inland and you had temps close to 40C with humidex values reaching the mid to upper 40's.


Thanks for posting this. I was wondering what to make of the weather forecasts as well because different forecast sources were showing very different numbers, and it didn't make sense to me.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Those are insane temperatures. I don't mean to sound alarmist but I also suggest making a back-up plan, in case of power outages. There's got to be a pretty serious load on local transformer substations etc. It might be worth thinking about what to do if there is extended power loss, as unlikely as that may be. Visit someone else? Hide out in your vehicle? Basement?
> 
> Depends on what powers your AC of course.
> 
> I have some friends in Portland where it got as high as 45, similar to yours. One of my friends told me that his central AC had trouble keeping up and the upper floors were well over 30. So they closed those vents, abandoned the upper part of the house and focused on lower floors and the basement.


You will use to it  ....I lived in Israel when practically whole summer temperature like BC has now .... All A/C worked and there weren't any "power outages". On the opposite, in Israel we had an issue when couple of times in decade we had snow LOL

Another funny part, that here in Mississauga , just week ago we had night temperature in low single digits and I was concerned about my backyard greenhouse


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Was low 30's and 40's with Humidex here, went for a nice run. Bit humid, but I love this weather.

The thunderstorm was crazy though, temperature dropped almost 10 degrees in less than 15 minutes.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

When the meteorologists said it was equivalent to about 120 degrees Farenheit......it hit home more to me.

Best hope the electrical grid holds up. One of the things about climate change is we need to strengthen our electrical grid and provide backup systems.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Those are insane temperatures. I don't mean to sound alarmist but I also suggest making a back-up plan, in case of power outages. There's got to be a pretty serious load on local transformer substations etc. It might be worth thinking about what to do if there is extended power loss, as unlikely as that may be. Visit someone else? Hide out in your vehicle? Basement?
> 
> Depends on what powers your AC of course.
> 
> I have some friends in Portland where it got as high as 45, similar to yours. One of my friends told me that his central AC had trouble keeping up and the upper floors were well over 30. So they closed those vents, abandoned the upper part of the house and focused on lower floors and the basement.


45.7C was the high in Kelowna yesterday (Tuesday). Lytton set another national record at 49.6. It is positioned in the Fraser Valley in a way that the 'bowl' cooks. Our AC was able to keep the house to 26C in late afternoon though it did run non-stop for many hours yesterday. AC is almost a must in the South Central Interior albeit not everyone has it.

BC Hydro and Fortis Power, the two providers of electricity in BC, are setting new 'summer' records for demand, but still under winter peak demand (probably due to electrical heating in Lower Mainland condos?). One issue in the Okanagan, especially on the west side of Okanagan Lake, is there is only one BC Hydro line (with wooden poles) to the west side from the main transmission line that runs through Merritt, some 100+km to the West. Despite municipal demands, BC Hydro has yet to commit to and construct a backup in event of a primary failure, albeit they are warming up to an interconnect via marine cable across the lake to the east side with Fortis Power. Both Fortis and BC Hydro would be well served to interconnect to each other for flexibility with a simple 5km or so marine cable,


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Thought this should be shared even though it's behind a paywall:

Western Canada’s heat dome may be Ontario bound. A climate expert explains what’s next
*



Extreme conditions coming to Ontario: 'It is unprecedented and it's not going away,' climate expert says 

Click to expand...

*


> _*Toronto Star**; Toronto, Ont.* [Toronto, Ont]30 June 2021: A.3.
> 
> Western Canada's record-breaking heat wave is expected to linger for a few more days before migrating eastbound.
> 
> ...


 ... hopefully by the time this future comes about, I won't be around to get roasted.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^ I bought a personal hand-crank fan in the event we get a brown/black out. Besides, be able to save some electricity, not that it'll make any difference for the utilities' bottomline either.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

"It feels like the air is on fire" said one resident. 

The power grid in Canada is often fragile and it wasn't that many years ago that Ontario was suffering rolling brownouts.

We have had major collapses of the grid in days gone by, with some kind of problem in the US causing a long stretch of blackouts.

I remember my parents emptying out the freezer and upset about the loss of the food. We didn't have a lot of money and there was no insurance.

Take those carbon tax dollars and create some jobs fortifying the electric grid. It should all be underground as much as possible.

Alternative energy would be helpful.....especially solar energy on days like these.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

To some degree, I agree. It depends on how savings are passed on to consumers and/or government agencies et al. If there is a direct relationship that will cut costs, e.g. garbage trucks for municipal waste management service, I think that is a valid use of incentives.

Added: Back to topic at hand, we are on track for another day the same as yesterday. 38C at noon


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

The heat wave has broke on the south coast. It feels amazing out there today... low 20's currently.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> 45.7C was the high in Kelowna yesterday (Tuesday). Lytton set another national record at 49.6. It is positioned in the Fraser Valley in a way that the 'bowl' cooks. Our AC was able to keep the house to 26C in late afternoon though it did run non-stop for many hours yesterday.


45.7 is insane. Glad to hear the AC kept up and you are doing OK.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Took a swim with a couple of these guys yesterday to cool off. The ocean here is usually a bit on the cool side for swimming, but seems about right the past few days. It was too hot to walk to the lake, although nowhere near as hot here as BC interior. Lytton topped out at 48.6 yesterday. 
<iframe width="776" height="437" src="



" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

I moved global warming posts to









Global Warming then and now


September 14 2006 - we have no more than 10 years left to act msnbc.com news services updated 9/14/2006 6:17:24 PM ET Print Font: SACRAMENTO, Calif. — A leading U.S. climate researcher says the world has a 10-year window of opportunity to take decisive action on global warming and...




www.canadianmoneyforum.com


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Mukhang pera said:


> Took a swim with a couple of these guys yesterday to cool off.


Amazing!



Mukhang pera said:


> Lytton topped out at 48.6 yesterday.


Lytton is now on fire. An hour ago, the mayor ordered the entire town to evacuate. The fire came in very fast and the mayor says the whole town is on fire.

Unfortunately the Okanagan is in danger too, as there are thunderstorms in the forecast and these could light new fires. Let's just hope there aren't too many fires, and hope for rain. What else can one do?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that's scary. Lyrtton has long been one of those places that often records tithe high temperature for the day for both BC and Canada. But I never recall fire there before. Kinda' depressing to see that happen. May the rains fall soon.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Avoid alcohol, since it does not help with handling heat.


 Fake news! Cold beer helps very well


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^ Bejesus on Lytton, that's really bad. Pray that area gets rain fast, if not helicopters fire-fighting water dumping!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There is negligible chance of rain anywhere in the southern interior and what there might be will be minimal with more damage likely caused by lightening strikes than what rain might fall. 

Lytton is likely mostly gone if this article is accurate.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

That's crazy hot in BC, I've only been in that kind of heat a few times in Arizona and it's no fun. We're forecast for mid-high 30's the next few days so there will be lots of pool time coming. The pool is sitting at 29c already but it's still refreshing.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

After the last few hot days, today we got cloud, and it's very cool out suddenly. It feels heavenly.


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## Flugzeug (Aug 15, 2018)

james4beach said:


> After the last few hot days, today we got cloud, and it's very cool out suddenly. It feels heavenly.


20C here in Victoria, with cloud. It feels great. Inside the house was mid-high 30s over the past few days.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Hurray for cloud cover and a breeze!


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

cainvest said:


> That's crazy hot in BC, I've only been in that kind of heat a few times in Arizona and it's no fun. We're forecast for mid-high 30's the next few days so there will be lots of pool time coming. The pool is sitting at 29c already but it's still refreshing.


 Canadians are sitting in their air conditioned houses and cars and complaining about heat, that only last few weeks at most. Imagine Africans and Central Americans living in this condition half a year in the houses without AC and riding a bicycle or walking to get around.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Bodies in Africa and Central America have acclimatized to hot environments (albeit within limits) over time. The clarity of that was loud and clear to us in Namibia on safari in 40-45C heat. None of the staff in our various camps seemed affected by that heat. Same thing in other hot spots that we have traveled in.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

The majority of households in BC do not have A/C. Those that do, it is often a portable unit that does not cool the house very effectively during such extremes. (My mom's house was 35C upstairs even with the A/C running.) I guess the hundreds that died from the heat would still be alive if they'd stopped complaining. Same with the people in Lytton who lost their homes (or lives).


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^


> _ I guess the hundreds that died from the heat would still be alive if they'd stopped complaining. Same with the people in Lytton who lost their homes (or lives)_.


 ... huh? Getting a heat-stroke can be deadly (or by the time one notice it), especially for seniors.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ ... huh? Getting a heat-stroke can be deadly (or by the time one notice it), especially for seniors.


Sorry, I was being sarcastic in response to Ukrainiandude.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Footage while fleeing Lytton.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well the trip from Hawaii to Sidney was a cold, frozen and for the most part a miserable excuse for global warming ever experienced. So there's that. Also there was no plastic in the gyre and no evidence of plastic straws so our new straw ban is working already.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

AltaRed said:


> Bodies in Africa and Central America have acclimatized to hot environments





nathan79 said:


> I guess the hundreds that died from the heat would still be alive


We conducted a time-series analysis using daily temperature data and a national dataset of all 8.8 million recorded deaths in South Africa between 1997 and 2013.
Overall, 3.4% of deaths (~ 290,000) in South Africa were attributable to non-optimum temperatures over the study period.








The association between ambient temperature and mortality in South Africa: A time-series analysis


There is an extensive literature describing temperature-mortality associations in developed regions, but research from developing countries, and Africa in particular, is limited.We conducted a time-series analysis using daily temperature data and a national ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov






This is how news should be given on media outlets, in context.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Canadians are sitting in their air conditioned houses and cars and complaining about heat, that only last few weeks at most. Imagine Africans and Central Americans living in this condition half a year in the houses without AC and riding a bicycle or walking to get around.


Those same people moan about how cold it is and strap on parkas when it is 5C. It's conditioning.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> ...
> 
> 
> > nathan79 said:
> ...


 ... the irony. What happened to the rest of nathan79's quote?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> We conducted a time-series analysis using daily temperature data and a national dataset of all 8.8 million recorded deaths in South Africa between 1997 and 2013.
> Overall, 3.4% of deaths (~ 290,000) in South Africa were attributable to non-optimum temperatures over the study period.
> 
> 
> ...


3.4% of deaths caused by non-optimum temperatures is a lot, don't you think?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Is fire insurance still offered in high risk areas ?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Is fire insurance still offered in high risk areas ?


Yes in some, not in others.

The problem isn't that insurance isn't available, it's just as risk increases so does the price.

If you had a 50% chance of filing a claim next year, your premium is going to be pretty large.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It looks like anyone who already had property insurance will be covered by insurance, but the companies are not allowing new policies or increase coverage amounts for current policies in areas under the threat of wild fires.

The BC realtor association advises realtors that the situation could impact people buying and selling property as people can't get a mortgage without proof of insurance.

For BCAA a mandatory evacuation releases up to $10,000 for expenses related to hotels, food, etc. People need to keep all receipts.

They are applying the same rules as other companies....no new policies issued and no increases in coverage until the threat of wildfire passes.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

There were reports of chemtrails being used to magnify the heat wave. As well as reports of a lot of food sitting in storage around the glob going bad to create famine this winter.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Some guy in Kelowna was seen in the woods, lighting fires! There's a video of it here too



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/arson-wildfire-west-kelowna-1.6098777


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

^
Unbelievable! Too bad he did not set himself alight.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Back when I was a kid in Oliver BC there were often fires set by people as fire fighting paid $4/hr which was pretty good wages, better than orchard work paid. I know the cops would go to the 2 bars in town & conscript any male sitting around drinking.

That video looks staged as there's no need for a big torch to set fires...bic lighter is just as fast.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^ Wow, on that raw video. Did they ever catch him as he REALLY NEEDS HELP.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Reminder... heatwaves are no joke. BC has determined that 619 deaths were due to heat between June 25 - July 1 last year.

The elderly are most at risk. If you're a senior, you really should have some kind of A/C even if it's just a portable unit. Or make a list of places you can go in case of extreme heat. Maybe visit friends or family, or a building's lobby, basement, coffee shop, grocery store, etc.

Also remember to continuously drink water during hot weather. Don't wait until you're thirsty; you need to proactively drink water. Keep an eye on the colour of your pee, since this is really easy to monitor.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

I've been reading an A/C thread on the RFD site and one post that resonated with me is how the heat dome essentially gave a lot of people PTSD (figuratively) and that's why people are going nuts about getting an A/C unit this year. That's basically how I feel. 
We previously had a portable unit that we rarely used. And then when we needed it last year, the missus gave it to her parents and I was miserable AF for that week.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

*Heatwave: Ferocious European heat heads north*
The UK has hit its hottest temperature on record, with a temperature of 40.2C recorded at Heathrow in London








Heatwave: Ferocious European heat heads north


As deadly wildfires rage in several European countries, provisional figures show a new UK heat record.



www.bbc.com


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

milhouse said:


> I've been reading an A/C thread on the RFD site and one post that resonated with me is how the heat dome essentially gave a lot of people PTSD (figuratively) and that's why people are going nuts about getting an A/C unit this year. That's basically how I feel.
> We previously had a portable unit that we rarely used. And then when we needed it last year, the missus gave it to her parents and I was miserable AF for that week.


During the pre-pandemic years, I used to set the thermostat at 27C and have it at 25C at around 5pm. That was because during the daytime, everybody was out of the house working anyways. Even during the first few years of retirement, I didn't need the AC to be on all the time.

Then when everybody started working from home, I had to set the AC at 25C most of the time.

This year, in February, we changed our 30 year old Lennox AC to a Carrier Heat Pump and now have it at 25C all day because everybody is still at home. We hope that the updated version will be a lot more electrically efficient.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> *Heatwave: Ferocious European heat heads north*
> The UK has hit its hottest temperature on record, with a temperature of 40.2C recorded at Heathrow in London
> 
> 
> ...


No surprise, they put a weather station next to the tarmac where jet engines run.

It's not global warming, it's fraud.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

HappilyRetired said:


> No surprise, they put a weather station next to the tarmac where jet engines run.
> 
> It's not global warming, it's fraud.


Yeah, I was working in my garden this afternoon in Ontario and my thermometer out there was showing 35 degrees. No big deal, that's just Canada in the summer months. It was quite pleasant. Then I went inside and was looking at CNN and the reporter was all excited about the temperatures in Britain in this 'climate emergency' and how the runways at the airport were all melting. They had an overlay of a thermometer next to the reporter that showed 33 degrees. Meh.........

ltr


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

like_to_retire said:


> Yeah, I was working in my garden this afternoon in Ontario and my thermometer out there was showing 35 degrees. No big deal, that's just Canada in the summer months. It was quite pleasant. Then I went inside and was looking at CNN and the reporter was all excited about the temperatures in Britain in this 'climate emergency' and how the runways at the airport were all melting. They had an overlay of a thermometer next to the reporter that showed 33 degrees. Meh.........
> 
> ltr


We spent most of Sunday outside. It reached 32 with a humidex of 44, a little cooler than your area. I probably wouldn't want to shovel gravel for a couple hours but it was quite pleasant in the shade.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

HappilyRetired said:


> We spent most of Sunday outside. It reached 32 with a humidex of 44,


Was your driveway melting?

ltr


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

like_to_retire said:


> Was your driveway melting?
> 
> ltr


No, just my ice cream.

I'd like to know what material was used for an airport runway that supposedly melts at 40C. I'm calling BS on that claim.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HappilyRetired said:


> We spent most of Sunday outside. It reached 32 with a humidex of 44


I think we're in the same city. I also experienced humidex of 44 or 45 on Sunday.

It felt hot.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Let's just pretend none of this is happening and maybe it will go away.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Giving government more money in taxes will have exact same effect as pretending none of this is happening - except we will be poorer.
They received tens of trillions of dollars to solve the problem, yet they themselves claim we are in worse situation than ever before. Time to stop giving them the money


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> I think we're in the same city. I also experienced humidex of 44 or 45 on Sunday.
> 
> It felt hot.


Warm or hot I guess it depends on the person but it wasn't uncomfortable for me. But even if it felt hot I'd rather have that than -30.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> I also experienced humidex of 44 or 45 on Sunday.
> 
> It felt hot.


Was pretty warm here too, the pool got up to 29c but it was still refeshing.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

In regards to the UK, the temperatures they are experiencing are very atypical. Most buildings there do not have AC. They are also designed to retain heat not reflect heat. I doubt that airport runways are melting but the heat is definitely a threat to the well being and health of many people living there. I am sure there are a lot of places on the planet that get warmer than we do here. You can't compare apples to oranges.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

londoncalling said:


> In regards to the UK, the temperatures they are experiencing are very atypical. Most buildings there do not have AC. They are also designed to retain heat not reflect heat. I doubt that airport runways are melting but the heat is definitely a threat to the well being and health of many people living there. I am sure there are a lot of places on the planet that get warmer than we do here. You can't compare apples to oranges.


The weather station that reported that record high is right next to an airport runway. That's not global warming, it's climate fraud. And I also very much doubt that the runway is melting but they claimed that it was and the media just believed that? Where are the pictures? A melting runway is unprecedented. How come the airport didn't shut it down due to safety concerns?

This whole thing is so ridiculous and yet it was front page news. Is that the state of today's journalism?


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

HappilyRetired said:


> The weather station that reported that record high is right next to an airport runway. That's not global warming, it's climate fraud. And I also very much doubt that the runway is melting but they claimed that it was and the media just believed that? Where are the pictures? A melting runway is unprecedented. How come the airport didn't shut it down due to safety concerns?
> 
> This whole thing is so ridiculous and yet it was front page news. Is that the state of today's journalism?


Heathrow Airport was the first place to break the 40C mark, hitting 40.2C at 12:50 BST but several other places also passed 40C during the afternoon, including Gringley on the Hill in Nottinghamshire and St James's Park, Kew Gardens and Northolt - all in London. 
A large swathe of eastern England, from Surrey to South Yorkshire, saw temperatures between 39C and 40C, and at least 34 weather stations exceeded the previous UK temperature record.
Scotland also saw a new record, according to provisional Met Office figures, with 34.8C recorded at Charterhall, in the Scottish borders - beating the previous record of 32.9C recorded in 2003.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HappilyRetired said:


> Warm or hot I guess it depends on the person but it wasn't uncomfortable for me. But even if it felt hot I'd rather have that than -30.


I agree completely. Here's a screen shot from Jan 1.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

james4beach said:


> I agree completely. Here's a screen shot from Jan 1.
> 
> View attachment 23431


I thought you live in BC condominium with mild winters not in Winterpeg.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Watch this video and compare.





with this.





that is how boomers and Trump supporters think. You can’t convince them of anything. Stubborn people. 
one example if you can’t see radiation it doesn’t exist.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Leonardo DiCaprio? Lol. What are his scientific qualifications? And if he is so scared of Glow Bull warming why does he own a massive yacht?

Some people are so brainwashed they'll believe everything they're told.

Please provide video of the supposed melting runways. I'm sure everyone here would really like to see that.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

HappilyRetired said:


> Leonardo DiCaprio?


No it’s John Hammond
Weather expert John Hammond issues a warning over the 'extreme' conditions expected next week.
get your vision checked. I have no desire to waste my time on climate change deniers.
what is your area of expertise? It’s not weather is it?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

HappilyRetired said:


> Please provide video of the supposed melting runways. I'm sure everyone here would really like to see that.


Yeah, my home thermometer said it was 33 degrees today and I needed to get some shopping done, but there was no way I could do that because it was obvious that my asphalt driveway was completely liquified.

No big deal, I can wait until tomorrow when it has solidified and I will be able to get my car out onto the city streets. It must be a nightmare for airport runways.

ltr


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> No it’s John Hammond
> Weather expert John Hammond issues a warning over the 'extreme' conditions expected next week.
> get your vision checked. I have no desire to waste my time on climate change deniers.
> what is your area of expertise? It’s not weather is it?


I don't deny climate changes so stop making false accusations. 

I follow the actual science, not the adjusted weather numbers and not the Green lobby and not the lying politicians who use climate as an excuse to impose more regulations.

When will the hundreds of weather stations next to air conditioners and pavement be moved so that the numbers will be accurate?


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

HappilyRetired said:


> I follow the actual science


Weather expert John Hammond issues a warning over the 'extreme' conditions expected next week.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

like_to_retire said:


> Yeah, my home thermometer said it was 33 degrees today and I needed to get some shopping done, but there was no way I could do that because it was obvious that my asphalt driveway was completely liquified.
> 
> No big deal, I can wait until tomorrow when it has solidified and I will be able to get my car out onto the city streets. It must be a nightmare for airport runways.
> 
> ltr


Most roads will not begin to soften until they hit a temperature of around 50C. However, even a sunny day in the 20Cs can be enough to generate 50C on the ground as the dark asphalt road surface absorbs a lot of heat and this builds up during the day with the hottest period between noon and 5pm. With temperatures regularly reaching the high 20Cs, the bitumen in some road surfaces may soften and rise to the top. This makes the road surface sticky and more susceptible to pressure loads from heavy vehicles resulting in surface ridging and rutting.

what is your area of expertise? Immunology? Climate? Politics?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The UK shut down some rail travel because they were concerned about the tracks, which aren't designed to withstand this level of sustained heat.

Apparently, they could twist enough to throw a train off the tracks, so they closed the trains just to be safe.

There was a picture on the news of an airport crew repairing a small section of runway that had buckled in the heat.

I doubt rubber or plastics will "liquify" but they can soften enough that they won't properly support the weight of an aircraft or a heavy truck.

There are fires breaking out in London, England....and the train in Spain where no rain on the plain was the main cause of flame in the terrain.

People living in homes with thatched roofs should keep them well hydrated, lest they spontaneously combust and burst into flames.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Ukrainiandude said:


> what is your area of expertise? Immunology? Climate? Politics?


What possible difference would that make to having a conversation on a general forum?

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> Yeah, my home thermometer said it was 33 degrees today and I needed to get some shopping done, but there was no way I could do that because it was obvious that my asphalt driveway was completely liquified.
> 
> No big deal, I can wait until tomorrow when it has solidified and I will be able to get my car out onto the city streets. It must be a nightmare for airport runways.
> 
> ltr


Some of your tire can stick to the asphalt if you leave the vehicle parked long enough. The plastic on your dashboard and steering wheel can melt and twist.

And you can receive severe burns from the steel buckles on the seat belts if they contact your bare midriff section.

It is an equatorial tropical jungle out there so be cautious and careful.......great white hunter of goods and services.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Most roads will not begin to soften until they hit a temperature of around 50C. However, even a sunny day in the 20Cs can be enough to generate 50C on the ground as the dark asphalt road surface absorbs a lot of heat and this builds up during the day with the hottest period between noon and 5pm. With temperatures regularly reaching the high 20Cs, the bitumen in some road surfaces may soften and rise to the top. This makes the road surface sticky and more susceptible to pressure loads from heavy vehicles resulting in surface ridging and rutting.
> 
> what is your area of expertise? Immunology? Climate? Politics?


I remember seeing asphalt bubbling when I was a kid when the temp was in the 30's.. I remember one stretch of road in particular where this happened quite often... maybe it was due to higher bitumen content (us kids just called it "tar"). Most roads have less tar or bitumen and will not bubble, but some will.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

like_to_retire said:


> What possible difference would that make to having a conversation on a general forum?
> 
> ltr


If you are an asphalt (climate, vaccine, immunology etc) expert that would add a huge weight to your words.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> No it’s John Hammond
> Weather expert John Hammond issues a warning over the 'extreme' conditions expected next week.
> get your vision checked. I have no desire to waste my time on climate change deniers.
> what is your area of expertise? It’s not weather is it?


This is very disingenuous comment.
There are very few climate change deniers.
What more and more people are realizing is that giving more money to politicians and higher taxes don't fix climate.

You can't dismiss people saying taxing the poor more and giving more money to governments won't fix climate as climate change deniers.

Just because I don't believe giving more tax money to fascist authoritarian in charge is a good idea doesn't somehow make me a climate change denier


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The climate change deniers are now fully exposed with their participles hanging out, for all the world to see.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Ukrainiandude said:


> If you are an asphalt (climate, vaccine, immunology etc) expert that would add a huge weight to your words.


I thought this was a side forum where people had general discussions. I didn't know we had to have a degree in the topic.

ltr


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

like_to_retire said:


> I thought this was a side forum where people had general discussions. I didn't know we had to have a degree in the topic.
> 
> ltr


We don’t have to. But degree ( in climate, asphalt, vaccine etc.) would add weight to your words. that’s all.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Weather expert John Hammond issues a warning over the 'extreme' conditions expected next week.


So? We only have a hundred years or so of somewhat accurate data. And we're still coming out of an ice age. And there are far too many weather stations poorly located that provide exaggerated temperatures.

Until those issues are properly addressed as well as many other climate issues no one can even say that there is a problem.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> We don’t have to. But degree ( in climate, asphalt, vaccine etc.) would add weight to your words. that’s all.


There are thousands of scientists who disagree with the mainstream belief of global warming. How many of them do you believe?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

HappilyRetired said:


> There are thousands of scientists who disagree with the mainstream belief of global warming. How many of them do you believe?


Can we really believe any of these scientists if they don't have a degree in asphalt?

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> I thought you live in BC condominium with mild winters not in Winterpeg.


I split my time between several Canadian cities. The last few days in Winnipeg (very hot) have felt heavenly... really nice and warm.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> No surprise, they put a weather station next to the tarmac where jet engines run.
> 
> It's not global warming, it's fraud.


Did they just move them there? You see conspiracies around every corner.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

andrewf said:


> Did they just move them there? You see conspiracies around every corner.


It's not a conspiracy. Meteorological instruments and the met offices for weather have always been located at airports. The airport needs immediate and accurate information for the safety of aircraft around and landing at the airport. I worked my entire career at airports in electronic engineering in air traffic control. I can vouch from experience - that's where the weather is monitored and data disseminated from.

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> Meteorological instruments and the met offices for weather *have always* been located at airports. . . .
> I can vouch from experience - that's where the weather is monitored and data disseminated from.


There's been no change in data collection or methodology then


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Boomers should remember summer 1976

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1548728369738661891


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> It's not a conspiracy. Meteorological instruments and the met offices for weather have always been located at airports. The airport needs immediate and accurate information for the safety of aircraft around and landing at the airport. I worked my entire career at airports in electronic engineering in air traffic control. I can vouch from experience - that's where the weather is monitored and data disseminated from.
> 
> ltr


Of course. Mr Retired thinks there is a conspiracy to locate weather stations downstream of jet exhaust to generate inaccurate readings. We just started putting weather stations at airports. Nevermind that accurate weather data is important for aviation safety.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Of course. Mr Retired thinks there is a conspiracy to locate weather stations downstream of jet exhaust to generate inaccurate readings. We just started putting weather stations at airports. Nevermind that accurate weather data is important for aviation safety.


And that airports are generally easily accessible, with good infrastructure, and an excellent supply of technically competent people to maintain it.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> There's been no change in data collection or methodology then


Incorrect. Many mercury thermometers have been replaced with more advanced models that can take instantaneous readings. This allows a short spike in temperature...say from a passing jet...to provide a higher reading than in the past.

Also, many airports have become more and more surrounded by urban environments which increases the urban heat effect.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Aren't most people living in an urban environment and thus experiencing the temperature of an urban environment? Perhaps I am not getting the point you are trying to make. I do understand that urban heat effect will result in a higher temperature reading and the switch from mercury to other models is valid. The thing about data and stats is they can be presented in so many ways that interpretation of data often needs to be questioned. Ideally the record temp would not be the temperature spike experienced from a reading of a few seconds.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

londoncalling said:


> Aren't most people living in an urban environment and thus experiencing the temperature of an urban environment? Perhaps I am not getting the point you are trying to make. I do understand that urban heat effect will result in a higher temperature reading and the switch from mercury to other models is valid. The thing about data and stats is they can be presented in so many ways that interpretation of data often needs to be questioned. Ideally the record temp would not be the temperature spike experienced from a reading of a few seconds.


The point is that the increased urban heat effect artificially inflates the temperature in those locations, but those locations only reflect a very small portion of the planet's surface. Also, many weather stations that were once surrounded by grass are now surrounded by pavement and near AC units and buildings.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Not sure about weather stations. They did change the graphics though


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The denial about climate change is astounding, but I think it's kind of neat to see what kinds of mental games people play, as part of their denial and resistance to change.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

The games are being played by whoever decides to put up the graphics.

But again, there is large consensus about climate change. 
What there isn't a consensus about is how to solve the problem and what to sacrifice. Those are two completely separate discussions and false equivalency you make is counterproductive and disingenuous


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> The denial about climate change is astounding, but I think it's kind of neat to see what kinds of mental games people play, as part of their denial and resistance to change.


Recognizing that there are poorly located weather stations is not denying that the climate changes.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If climate change is a threat to all humanity........what is there to debate ?

The prudent course of action is to do whatever is necessary to change the eventual outcome.

If we know the end of the path leads to an end to humanity......only idiots would blissfully continue down the path.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> If climate change is a threat to all humanity........what is there to debate ?


The debate would be how to fix it, even if we can fix it.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> The debate would be how to fix it, even if we can fix it.


First it must be determined that warming is bad. That hasn't been proven yet. What has been proven throughout the planet's history is that life thrives when the planet warms.

There's no need for debate when warmer is better. And there's no need to fix something that isn't broken.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

sags said:


> If climate change is a threat to all humanity........what is there to debate ?
> 
> The prudent course of action is to do whatever is necessary to change the eventual outcome.
> 
> If we know the end of the path leads to an end to humanity......only idiots would blissfully continue down the path.


Whatever is necessary? Not even close. Unless you volunteer yourself and your entire family for a Thanos moment - since that will decrease emissions.

There are some actions that make sense and some actions that don't make sense. This is where disagreement lays. And sooner people start framing the argument in such way, the sooner we can get to constructive debate and solutions.

Stating that people who don't agree with your solutions are climate change deniers is idiotic and frankly you are doing millions of years of revolution disservice by not using your brain if this is the connection that you make.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> First it must be determined that warming is bad. That hasn't been proven yet. What has been proven throughout the planet's history is that life thrives when the planet warms.


Not so sure about that .. I believe there is significant evidence that shows bad things are coming due to the warming trend.



HappilyRetired said:


> There's no need for debate when warmer is better. And there's no need to fix something that isn't broken.


Is there current evidence that shows warmer is better for our current global setting?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> First it must be determined that warming is bad. That hasn't been proven yet. What has been proven throughout the planet's history is that life thrives when the planet warms.
> 
> There's no need for debate when warmer is better. And there's no need to fix something that isn't broken.


Is it good for human civilization? Human civilization arose during an interglacial period. Cranking up the heat is bound to be very disruptive. The planet will be fine on geological scale. Humanity?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

cainvest said:


> The debate would be how to fix it, even if we can fix it.


Since the science tells us that fossil fuel emissions are the main problem, aren't we already addressing that, albeit in a pathetically slow pace ?

If we can fix it......remains to be seen, but better to try to mitigate the worst of it than do nothing.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

While the world burns, the climate change deniers play the fiddle.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

sags said:


> Since the science tells us that fossil fuel emissions are the main problem, aren't we already addressing that, albeit in a pathetically slow pace ?
> 
> If we can fix it......remains to be seen, but better to try to mitigate the worst of it than do nothing.


Then stop breathing......

Or are there some kind of emissions that are acceptable?
And if the answer to above is yes, then there clearly needs to be a debate on how to address it and where to address it, because clearly cutting it out completely is not practical or desirable


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> If climate change is a threat to all humanity......


Canada has a narrow little band of arable land that's about 7500 km wide. Maybe we could use some warmth. I understand there are quite a few countries that would benefit.

Canada could gain 4.2 million square kilometers of agricultural land as a result of climate change.

ltr


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Is it good for human civilization? Human civilization arose during an interglacial period. Cranking up the heat is bound to be very disruptive. The planet will be fine on geological scale. Humanity?


Humans live and thrive in every single climate on the planet, many of them are very severe and inhospitable. I'm sure we'll get by.

Imagine the massive benefit for Canada and other northern countries to have warmer weather and longer growing seasons. Not to mention less fossil fuel use because less heating is required.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Fossil fuel use is going to crater regardless. It is going to get squeezed out by alternative energy sources, only accelerated by measures to internalize the negative externalities they create.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> Imagine the massive benefit for Canada and other northern countries to have warmer weather and longer growing seasons. Not to mention less fossil fuel use because less heating is required.


You should write a paper on how the warming climate change is so (all?) positive for Canada so we can all get educated before it's too late.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> You should write a paper on how the warming climate change is so (all?) positive for Canada so we can all get educated before it's too late.


I don't need to write a paper, the benefits of warming are well known and yet completely ignored.

That's not an oversight, it's done on purpose. You seem intelligent, I'm sure you can figure out why that is.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Fossil fuel use is going to crater regardless. It is going to get squeezed out by alternative energy sources, only accelerated by measures to internalize the negative externalities they create.


Can we talk about all the tremendous benefits of warming or does that hurt your feelings?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> Can we talk about all the tremendous benefits of warming or does that hurt your feelings?


Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Of course if you are just going to provide hearsay, unsubstantiated claims and not consider any "possible" negative sides effects ... well, don't even start.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> I don't need to write a paper, the benefits of warming are well known and yet completely ignored.
> 
> That's not an oversight, it's done on purpose. You seem intelligent, I'm sure you can figure out why that is.


Really, so just figuring it on one's own (guessing I think you'd call it?) is good enough for you then? Can you at least provide a list of these benefits?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Can we talk about all the tremendous benefits of warming or does that hurt your feelings?


We can talk about it in the global context of global political instability caused by mass migration, famine, economic dislocation. Canada being able to grow a bit more wheat is not worth as much as you might think it is.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Of course if you are just going to provide hearsay, unsubstantiated claims and not consider any "possible" negative sides effects ... well, don't even start.


You say I don't consider any negative effects of warming but yet you're completely unaware of the well known and documented positive affects.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> We can talk about it in the global context of global political instability caused by mass migration, famine, economic dislocation. Canada being able to grow a bit more wheat is not worth as much as you might think it is.


Only Canada benefits from warming? Maybe you should take a look at a globe.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

cainvest said:


> Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Of course if you are just going to provide hearsay, unsubstantiated claims and not consider any "possible" negative sides effects ... well, don't even start.


Moody's did that actually:



https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2019/economic-implications-of-climate-change.pdf


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> You say I don't consider any negative effects of warming but yet you're completely unaware of the well known and documented positive affects.


I said if you're not going to consider negative effects.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

damian13ster said:


> Moody's did that actually:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2019/economic-implications-of-climate-change.pdf


Hey look HappilyRetired ... some actual data!


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

like_to_retire said:


> Canada has a narrow little band of arable land that's about 7500 km wide. Maybe we could use some warmth. I understand there are quite a few countries that would benefit.
> 
> Canada could gain 4.2 million square kilometers of agricultural land as a result of climate change.
> 
> ltr


Human Mass migration is never without problems and it will be on a scale that has never happened previously. As for this new agricultural land I thought the soil "oop"north was particularly poor being thin, dense and nutrient poor leading to among other things poor water retention / rapid water run off (not the famous humas black earth I hear about in Ukraine for example) oh as well as the area being mainly rock ( the oft mention Canadian Shield) . Besides who is going to farm all this? I suppose all the displace poor people of Bangladesh. Really good soil is hard to come by "Bread basket" Soil distribution globally. I hope I am wrong here but I thought soil erosion due to climate change was a thing. High temperature lead to humas soil degradation Soil degradation . Yes some animal and plant species will thrive in some areas due to the climate changes but the fact is that our fossil fuel use means the oceans are in big trouble due to CO2 abortion (Acid.) Maybe HappilyRetired has data on ocean species that thrive in warming acid salt water? 🤔 , I would be genuinely curious . Dont whale migrate to the cold waters of north to feed and south to just to breed? What all the ocean is tropical warm? So pessimistically large areas of currently arable land will become less productive. That said , I see examples of humans who are able to manipulate things and change desert into green land but we'd need to be working together on a global scale. If we could do that for soil composition couldn't we be doing that now for the air composition?


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> Hey look HappilyRetired ... some actual data!


How come all the fear mongers and governments pretend it doesn't exist? And how come you never knew this before?


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> I said if you're not going to consider negative effects.


So, your position on warming depends on my position?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> How come all the fear mongers and governments pretend it doesn't exist? And how come you never knew this before?


Can't speak for others and never looked.


HappilyRetired said:


> So, your position on warming depends on my position?


Doesn't eveybody's?


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> Can't speak for others and never looked.


It's probable a good idea to know both sides before taking a stance.



cainvest said:


> Doesn't eveybody's?


Not mine, but I can't speak for others.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> It's probable a good idea to know both sides before taking a stance.


That's why I asked you for a list and/or data supporting your position.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

cainvest said:


> That's why I asked you for a list and/or data supporting your


The data is there if you cared enough to look. They want to remake the entire economy and tax people into oblivion and you'll just happily go along with whatever they say but won't spend 10 minutes verifying basic facts.

Warming has always been better throughout the entire history of the planet. If you want to believe that's changed for some magical reason just because the government said so then you're being fooled.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> The data is there if you cared enough to look. They want to remake the entire economy and tax people into oblivion and you'll just happily go along with whatever they say but won't spend 10 minutes verifying basic facts.
> 
> Warming has always been better throughout the entire history of the planet. If you want to believe that's changed for some magical reason just because the government said so then you're being fooled.


Sure there is some data but since you seem unwilling to provide any, it doesn't help your claim. Most others agree warming is bad so I guess they haven't seen your data either, seems kind of odd don't you think?


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

cainvest said:


> Sure there is some data but since you seem unwilling to provide any, it doesn't help your claim. Most others agree warming is bad so I guess they haven't seen your data either, seems kind of odd don't you think?


Seems like a easy fix - provide links to the data so we can learn how acidic and warming oceans are a good thing. How we will enjoy agricultural success on the rocky canadian shield , how mass migrations will be a glorious seamless success and why highly polluted air and drinking water will benefit all of the plant.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

HappilyRetired said:


> Warming has always been better throughout the entire history of the planet. If you want to believe that's changed for some magical reason just because the government said so then you're being fooled.


That is what the deniers and trolls have been using in their argument. We all know the planet is warming naturally but it is the rate of change caused by human GHG emissions that will cause (and is causing) havoc with the ability of our natural world to adapt. The rate of change today far exceeds that of the past, dinosaur extinction excepted, and that is easily measured with tree rings, ice cores and the like. 

I believe the rate of change needs to be slowed to avoid a wide range of catastrophic events, or at least reducing the tsunami of them happening too quickly. For that, a pragmatic and responsible effort needs to be undertaken to lessen the pain. I don't agree with the 'chicken little' hystericals beating their heads on the streets panicking like the world will implode in 10 years, nor do I accept the sensationalism of those who hitched their wagon to the gravy train of vested interests. Hopefully, the pendulum will stay between the extremes longer term. I won't be around to see it but I do have empathy for climate effects on our children and grandchildren's lives.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> We all know the planet is warming naturally but it is the rate of change caused by human GHG emissions that will cause (and is causing) havoc with the ability of our natural world to adapt.


There are some studies/theories around that say ghg (mainly co2) is not as big factor as many make it out to be. Of course if world co2 levels continue to rise every year the point is moot. On the plus side, less local pollution and energy use is a good thing.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Agreed that air, land and water pollution used to be the primary goals before the GHG frenzy took over the narrative. Some of that is still accomplished (at least the air part) with pressure on decreasing fossil fuel use but it does little to mitigate land and water pollution.

Rising GHG concentrations correlates with increasing world temperatures, albeit 'noisily' because it is notoriously complex and a lagging indicator to measure the earth's heat sink. People think too much in terms of just air temperature when the far more complex mechanism is ocean temperature, currents and marine habitats. It is changes in ocean temperatures and currents that affects everything else, e.g. location and variability of the jet steam et al.

Hard core deniers have no idea how stupid they look and they will find themselves naked long after the party has ended. What we really need is a more plausible and measured response from the climate change community and politicians to bring the masses along with them. Appearing panic stricken simply results in them undermining their own credibility. Folks like some in the JT government are their own worst enemies and won't get the response they seek.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> Hard core deniers have no idea how stupid they look and they will find themselves naked long after the party has ended. What we really need is a more plausible and measured response from the climate change community and politicians to bring the masses along with them. Appearing panic stricken simply results in them undermining their own credibility. Folks like some in the JT government are their own worst enemies and won't get the response they seek.


A person isn't a climate denier if they question methods and measurements. To accuse them of such makes the accuser look stupid. Until the methods used for measuring temperature are accurate I choose not to fall for the government position on climate. If this is really as serious as we're being told then accurate measurements must be used. Weather stations are surrounded by concrete, near jet engine exhausts, near AC units, etc.

Governments want to completely change the economy but refuse to back up their position with accurate data.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

We're being fed a load of BS:


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There is indeed a lot of noise in the media hyped by vested interests but to say measurements are largely compromised by the proximity of sensors to A/C units, concrete, etc. is rather absurd in the extreme. Certainly some measurements are from improper urban locations but they have been historically so. Most of the millions of weather data locations are not when you examine the studies (think atmospheric, ocean, land, etc) and what is just as important is the trend, i.e. change, over time. Your continued use of


> Weather stations are surrounded by concrete, near jet engine exhausts, near AC units, etc.


 doesn't say much for objectivity. You are welcome to continue to believe what you believe. Time will prove you wrong. It is only a matter of degree .

Added later: FWIW, I believe in being more objective and pragmatic in the transition than the 'sky is falling' crowd. Rate of transition and adaptability can't overdrive the headlights. Let's just be intelligent about how we get there. I am not about to convert my nat gas heating to heat pump until it is 'time' to change out equipment, and I am not about to buy an EV until the technology has matured better AND my current ICE vehicles reach a meaningful life span.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> Most of the millions of weather data locations are not when you examine the studies (think atmospheric, ocean, land, etc) and what is just as important is the trend, i.e. change, over time. Your continued use of doesn't say much for objectivity. You are welcome to continue to believe what you believe. Time will prove you wrong. It is only a matter of degree


There are 27,372 weather stations, not millions.

WorldClim: Global weather stations | Data Basin


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

How many are near A/C units, runways and concrete walls? How many of those were surreptitiously placed in such locations in the last decade or two in an ulterior motive to falsify data trends for a 'false narrative' in the rate of temperature/wind/humidity/precipitation?


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> How many are near A/C units, runways and concrete walls? How many of those were surreptitiously placed in such locations in the last decade or two in an ulterior motive to falsify data trends for a 'false narrative' in the rate of temperature/wind/humidity/precipitation?


First you think there are millions of weather statins and now you don't know how many are poorly located. What do you know?

There's no need to move a weather station when development builds up around them. As to how many? The answer should be zero if this is a serious as we're told but it's not.

Here's a report showing how poorly located many weather stations are.

"89 percent – nearly 9 of 10 – of the stations surveyed produce unreliable data by NOAA’s own definition."

surfacestationsreport_spring09.pdf (wordpress.com)


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

That study is one needle in the overall haystack of studies, reports and op-eds. Apparently not accredited nor peer reviewed for competency though perhaps it has been. 

Data gathering is always messy due to environmental variables, but that is where modeling comes in. Modeling takes a lot of data and massages it, and over time, algorithms are tweaked such that model outputs align with historical data on a global basis. You know full well there are a lot of variables and statistical analysis is necessary to establish 'probable outcomes'. We have decades of data and modeling outputs now to get reasonable confidence in projections. If you are a scientist or engineer, you already know that.

Links like you just posted are simply part of a much larger process to understand the data better. They are never meant to be taken literally...except by those with intent to support their particular position. Hang on to any sound bite you wish to support your opinion but opinion has little to do with the reality of current trends. Your assertions won't play out as you appear to currently assume.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> "89 percent – nearly 9 of 10 – of the stations surveyed produce unreliable data by NOAA’s own definition."


And the counter to that opinion piece you linked ....

New analysis shows US temperature record is reliable, rejects 2009 claims by Anthony Watts


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> And the counter to that opinion piece you linked ....
> 
> New analysis shows US temperature record is reliable, rejects 2009 claims by Anthony Watts


But see, this doesn't confirm his preconceived notion, therefore must be the world of the global (((moneyed))) cabal.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

We'll call it a draw...you believe your guy and I'll believe my guy.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HappilyRetired said:


> We'll call it a draw...you believe your guy and I'll believe my guy.


Hardly a draw, your paper has virtually no scientific data supporting the claim, as explained in the article I linked too. The article I linked to has "real scientific data" in regards to the weather stations in question.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Humidity is a big factor in the heat.

Today was 36 to 38 C where I am, but very dry. I went hiking for two and a half hours and it really didn't feel so bad. I drank a ton of water, and was sweating, but my sweat also evaporated rapidly.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Would agree "humidity" is a big factor in heat ... it just jack the temperature up by several degrees. 

One time as I was preparing for a trip down to an island in the tropics, the weather channel stated it was about 33C there which I thought wasn't so bad. But when I stepped out of the airport, I thought was walking into a blaster oven - and upon checking the temperature there - it was registering something like 43/44C ... an additional 10C! No wonder. No thanks for a re-trip even it was early spring there. It's hot hot hot hot hot hot there all year round, just like Texas, Florida, Arizona, etc. with humidity fluxes.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The air conditioner on our main floor is continually dripping water out the back onto the patio. 

It is surprising how much moisture it draws out of the small floor area.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I think that water flow is caused by condensation of cold meeting hot (air).


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

China should burn more coal it might help.

*Chinese authorities are attempting to induce rainfall in parts of central and southwest China amid a severe drought and record-breaking heatwave.*
The Yangtze River - Asia's longest waterway - is now at record low levels. In some stretches, there has been less than half the usual rainfall.
Hydropower reservoirs are currently down by as much as half, officials say.
At the same time, a surge in demand for air conditioning has put power companies under extreme pressure.
The two-month-long heatwave is the longest on record in China, the National Climate Centre said.
Provinces around the drought-stricken Yangtze river have turned to cloud seeding operations to combat the lack of rain, with Hubei and a number of other provinces launching rockets carrying chemicals into the sky, according to local media.
But a lack of cloud cover has stalled efforts in some areas seeking to do the same.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-62573547


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Not sure where to put this but then it's A/C aka heat-related so here it is. Should be good news for Ontarian renters:

Access to air conditioning should be a 'vital service' for all Ontario tenants: OHRC



> _Published Friday, August 19, 2022 12:35PM EDT
> 
> *The Ontario Human Rights Commission (OHRC) is calling on the Doug Ford government to designate air conditioning as a vital service for tenants in the province.*_
> 
> ...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ I think that water flow is caused by condensation of cold meeting hot (air).


Ah......that makes sense.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560717540069937153


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1560742351424720897


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

That means nothing. The Rhine dried up so much in 1540 that people could walk across:

1540 European drought - Wikipedia


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

I guess only some misinformation is banned by Twitter 😁 

Ukrainiandude, please feel free to correct or delete your inaccurate posts...


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

The latest climate idiocy for anyone foolish enough to still believe they're being told the truth:


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Honestly I am surprised and bewildered that Canadian natural gas companies are not monetizing on this. Price of natural gas in Canada is around $300 pre thousand cubic meters vs over $3000 in Europe. 
Is this inept Canadian government fault? 

*As Europe's energy costs skyrocket, Russia is burning off large amounts of natural gas, according to analysis shared with BBC News.*
They say the plant, near the border with Finland, is burning an estimated $10m (£8.4m) worth of gas every day.
Experts say the gas would previously have been exported to Germany. 
Germany's ambassador to the UK told BBC News that Russia was burning the gas because "they couldn't sell it elsewhere".
Scientists are concerned about the large volumes of carbon dioxide and soot it is creating, which could exacerbate the melting of Arctic ice. 
The analysis by Rystad Energy indicates that around 4.34 million cubic metres of gas are being burned by the flare every day.








Climate change: Russia burns off gas as Europe's energy bills rocket


Russia is burning off millions of dollars in gas every day at a plant near the Finnish border.



www.bbc.com


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Honestly I am surprised and bewildered that Canadian natural gas companies are not monetizing on this. Price of natural gas in Canada is around $300 pre thousand cubic meters vs over $3000 in Europe.
> Is this inept Canadian government fault?
> 
> *As Europe's energy costs skyrocket, Russia is burning off large amounts of natural gas, according to analysis shared with BBC News.*
> ...


You can't wave a magic wand and move natgas between continents. It requires massive infra investment.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It seems the climate change deniers have found a home on CMF.

The deniers have been debating it for years, long after the effects have manifested themselves as scientists said they would.

We no longer have the luxury of wasting time debating the obvious. We are already immersed in a climate emergency.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

andrewf said:


> You can't wave a magic wand and move natgas between continents. It requires massive infra investment.


This article is from 2013
*Canaport LNG given permission to export via tankers


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/canaport-lng-given-permission-to-export-via-tankers-1.2441102



and this one is from 2018





*


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It would have taken a massive amount of spending on infrastructure......starting back when natural gas was dirt cheap and nobody wanted any from us.

There was no political or corporate desire to spend that money on a future problem nobody envisioned.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

That's wrong side of the continent.
energy east was supposed to get it, there were 18 LNG project submissions.
Liberals added so much red tape that everything was scrapped. Canada is not a place to build anything anymore.
We aren't able to help Europe in any way in their energy crisis


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

damian13ster said:


> Liberals added so much red tape that everything was scrapped.


Are you sure?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> You can't wave a magic wand and move natgas between continents. It requires massive infra investment.


Saint John was supposed to get that 10 years ago

Then 10k migratory songbirds got incinerated in a gas flare on a foggy day and all the tax evasion controversies came out

Our government in inept


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> It would have taken a massive amount of spending on infrastructure......starting back when natural gas was dirt cheap and nobody wanted any from us.
> 
> There was no political or corporate desire to spend that money on a future problem nobody envisioned.


Wat

saggy hasn't the slightest clue as usual


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

"We made a deal with Google and we own the science"!! I'm sure a few people here will call the source unreliable but this is what she actually said. Look it up. Anyone who still believes the official government position on climate is an idiot.

Melissa Fleming, Under-Secretary for Global Communications at the United Nations at WEF ‘Disinformation’ event: “We partnered with Google,” said Fleming, adding, “for example, if you Google ‘climate change,’ you will, at the top of your search, you will get all kinds of UN resources. We started this partnership when we were shocked to see that when we Googled ‘climate change,’ we were getting incredibly distorted information right at the top. So we’re becoming much more proactive. We own the science, and we think that the world should know it, and the platforms themselves also do.”

UN official at WEF: ‘We own the science & we think that the world should know it’ so ‘we partnered with Google’ to ensure only UN climate results appear – Watts Up With That?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Some people I'm sure would have insisted the iceberg was fake news if they were the last passenger on the Titanic as the stern slipped beneath the waves.

The data can't all be fake. Glaciers receding, bird migrations changing, flowers blooming earlier, etc.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Some people I'm sure would have insisted the iceberg was fake news if they were the last passenger on the Titanic as the stern slipped beneath the waves.
> 
> The data can't all be fake. Glaciers receding, bird migrations changing, flowers blooming earlier, etc.


What about the more accurate satellite data that shows little or no warming? That data wasn't fake but they stopped using it because it hurt the narrative.

If you think that only UN approved data is the right data, then you have that right. You can also believe that men can get pregnant if that makes you happy too.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Politico just praised Putin for helping the world go greener. The climate zealots don't care who dies as long as their agenda moves forward:

POLITICOEurope on Twitter: "It took a war criminal to speed up Europe’s green revolution. Vladimir Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine has forced Europe to finally break its fossil fuel addiction. For this reason, he has topped our inaugural #POLITICOGreen28 list. Read more here: https://t.co/JRDcxqQTG7 https://t.co/3AuZDs8RVn" / Twitter


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

And more lunacy from the crazy climate fools. The murder of entire civilizations was good:

Why Genghis Khan was good for the planet | Environment | The Guardian


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Hard to argue - the biggest climate warrior is Thanos 
That's why it is confusing that countries who claim to be 'green' still have their retirement systems set up as Ponzi schemes that rely on population growth.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Bjorn Lomborg: Suppressing good news is scaring our kids witless


You might be hearing nothing but bad news but you aren’t hearing the full story




financialpost.com


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