# Knowing what you know now, where would you steer young investors today...?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

(jumping here after scanning through Newbieinvestor88's index investing thread)
Suppose you knew a young person....just starting out in investing....who has little to no interest in 'hands-on' actively managing their investments for the next 25-30 years or so. What kind of a (simple) portfolio or whatever, would you suggest to them? 
For example, VBAL or VGRO, and forget it.....OR.....?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

1. Understand risk profile.
2. Canadian Couch potato


If you don't have a few hours a year to manage your investment portfolio, why would you spend thousands of hours a year building it?
I think it is completely reasonable to spend 1% of your work hours managing your investments, and another 1-2% on your financial plan.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Is this a hypothetical or is someone asking you?

Start with learning the very basics of saving and investing with Millionaire Teacher by Andrew Hallam, or If You Can, How Millennials Can Get Rich Slowly by William Bernstein. Always save 15% of gross earnings or 20% of net earnings for retirement in a low-cost broadly diversified investment. TFSA first, then RRSP.

For someone that has the ability and aptitude to buy on a stock exchange and the guts to stay invested no matter what the market does, one of the _GRO ETFs from iShares, Vanguard or BMO. If someone wants a bit of handholding, then whichever robo-advisor they like.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Read some financial books like those listed above by GreatLaker and then after taking a financial concepts exam and passing it (with 80% at least), then we can talk about "investments" in stocks, ETFs, or Bitcoin, whatever.

One has to learn to crawl before walking and then go running. Now, if dad wants the youngster to jump into the deep end before wading in the shallow ...


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Just a question, how young is this "young person"

My son at 6 got introduced to money, savings etc
His lessons were a bit different.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Gosh, like any all-in-one fund. 

Invest as much as possible in HGRO, VEQT, XEQT, etc. and then consider owning some individual stocks later on, or not. The amount of wealth a 20-something can generate if they stick to a disciplined savings and investing plan for 20-30 years is tremendous. 7-figures.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

thanks MOA.

this would be someone in early 30's.
And, as hard as it is for people on this forum to comprehend - its someone who simply has zero interest in studying or learning about "investing", and is NEVER going to read any books similar to those mentioned above, or take any investment courses etc.
There apparently ARE people like this in the world! lol!


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

get them an account that cannot be looked up online, and get statements mailed to them once a month. QE code on the statement that allows online access to their account for 5 days to make trades then the online goes dark again


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> thanks MOA.
> 
> this would be someone in early 30's.
> And, as hard as it is for people on this forum to comprehend - its someone who simply has zero interest in studying or learning about "investing", and is NEVER going to read any books similar to those mentioned above, or take any investment courses etc.
> There apparently ARE people like this in the world! lol!


Then go to the bank, buy their balanced fund on a pre-auth purchase plan and ignore it for a few decades.
Ideally they should couch potato, but if that's too much work above works fine.

I understand not wanting to invest the time, but when you think about 1-2% of the savings over decades, you're talking tens even hundreds of thousands of dollars, this is months of years or work hours they're throwing away because they don't want to learn.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Option 1: Robo-advisor with about a 0.6% fee for small accounts.
Option 2: Bank branch advisor that will recommend the bank's mutual funds with MER around 2% to 2.8%, which if you look at it, is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the annual investment return on a balanced fund that may return 6% to 8% / year.

How much handholding and meeting with a warm body do they need?

Complete Guide to Best Robo Advisors in Canada 2021 - Young and Thrifty 
A guide to the best robo-advisors in Canada for 2021 | MoneySense 
Disclaimer: I did not read the articles above.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I'd show him how to make 49% a year or more, in 5 minutes a day with minimal risk. The difficulty would be finding anyone who was interested.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> thanks MOA.
> 
> this would be someone in early 30's.
> And, as hard as it is for people on this forum to comprehend - its someone who simply has zero interest in studying or learning about "investing", and is NEVER going to read any books similar to those mentioned above, or take any investment courses etc.
> There apparently ARE people like this in the world! lol!


Honestly, I will have the unpopular opinion here. I would recommend that they have really zero interest they get a trusted advisor. My spouse has ZERO interest (may be because he completely trusts me). 

I am assuming that the someone you mention is just getting started, so not a large portfolio or amount. Even if he is putting in $1k a month with a 2% mer, he is paying $250 a year for advice (could . Yes, I know that's incremental, as his portfolio gets larger, then I know he will pay more. It may get to the point that he decides its worth to manage himself. Having an advisor may help him get motivated to get started. The trick is finding someone who is trustworthy (easier said than done)

The other option is I would tell him to go straight couch potato. That's what my kids are starting to do now until they learn more. They may never be interested but they will have started.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

double post


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I'd show him how to make 49% a year or more, in 5 minutes a day with minimal risk. The difficulty would be finding anyone who was interested.


raises hand.....ME INTERESTED! 👋


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> raises hand.....ME INTERESTED! 👋


I have posted my method several times over the last 3 or 4 years, guess you missed it.
I use a little known technical indicator called the TTM Squeeze to pinpoint the best time to buy, right after the price bottoms. Then ride it up with a trailing stoploss until I get stopped out. This works with all kinds of stocks, funds, ETFs, indexes as long as they go up and down. My favorite is TQQQ because it gives me plenty of action but in a smooth, dependable way without radical moves. It gives 3 or 4 good opportunities a year.
I use a trading platform called Think or Swim which is TD Waterhouse in other words, Toronto Dominion Bank's brokerage division. You can download Think or Swim for free, and paper trade it for free, as long as you like. If you download it, I can show you in a few minutes how to set up the charts and exactly how it works.
For example. The latest move in TQQQ began when it bottomed on March 8 @ 76.27. I got the buy signal next day. TQQQ continued to move up until it peaked @ 111.99 last Friday.
That is a move of 46.83% in six weeks. I am not saying you could have caught all of it but what if you caught half? And what if you could do that 2, 3 or 4 times a year?
If you want actual numbers I got into this trade, got stopped out with a small profit and got back in @ 87.19 on March 19 and am still holding with a stoploss of 104. The stoploss almost got hit today, I expect tomorrow it will either get hit in which case I am out with a profit or TQQQ will turn up again and I will make even more profit.
Download ToS and have a look at the chart page. If you have any questions you can PM me and I will be glad to answer them.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

My Own Advisor said:


> Gosh, like any all-in-one fund.
> 
> Invest as much as possible in HGRO, VEQT, XEQT, etc. and then consider owning some individual stocks later on, or not. The amount of wealth a 20-something can generate if they stick to a disciplined savings and investing plan for 20-30 years is tremendous. 7-figures.


Still unsure about "tremendous".

Canada median after-tax income is about $63,000. The Daily — Canadian Income Survey, 2019

Let's say that means one person can make $35,000 after-tax a year and saves 20% of that money which is $7,000 a year.

Let's say his salary increases by 3% annually, so he saves 3% more every year.

After 40 years at 7%, that person will have saved $2M.

With an inflation rate of 2%, that $2M in 40 years is the same as $900,000 in today's dollars.

You need more than good savings habits to build a "tremendous" wealth. Either frugality or jumping on all occasions to increase your income and find new income streams.

Hell, I started working as an engineer in January 2013 and my gross salary was $48,000. It took me more than just accepting my annual raise to get to a 6-figure gross income 8 years later. And that's as an engineer. The median household in Canada are not engineers. My spouse increased her salary by 70% in 3 years by promoting her project ideas and going through tough negotiation processes, contests and assessments.

Unfortunately, the average person won't build a great wealth working 40 years at the same place, doing just the great job he's asked to do and living his life normally, even with having awesome saving habits. He'll just save enough to have a decent retirement after working 40 years, but nothing more.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I think understanding fundamentals is most important.
Risk tolerance and time horizon and plans are good.

I also think it's crazy that people put so little effort into their finances, you work 2 thousand hours a year to make a paycheck, and I'd bet people spend less than a dozen on their plan.

In my few hours of annual planning, which we revisit on major changes.

We lay out the rough budget, and major plans and expenses.

We were on track for last year.
Is the budget for regular expenses realistic?
What adjustments do we need to make.
So things like $3k for new appliances, $4k for vacation, Monthly budget change for new car. 
RESP and TFSA contributions, relative priority of each.

We do this over about 8 hours in 2 weeks

We also track all our spending, but if you have 5 minutes to order something on Amazon, you have 30 seconds to record it in the tracking sheet.


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## bigmoneytalks (Oct 3, 2014)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I'd show him how to make 49% a year or more, in 5 minutes a day with minimal risk. The difficulty would be finding anyone who was interested.


Interested!! 😊


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

bigmoneytalks said:


> Interested!! 😊


Read my post #15 above, you could also do a search of my past posts if you are curious as to whether I have really been talking about this before. Download ToS and you will be able to see what I am talking about in the form of a chart that anyone can understand in minutes. If you have any questions ask here or PM me.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> Suppose you knew a young person....just starting out in investing....who has little to no interest in 'hands-on' actively managing their investments for the next 25-30 years or so. What kind of a (simple) portfolio or whatever, would you suggest to them?


I would start by recognizing that not everyone can stay invested for 30 years, for various reasons. Especially for young people: they might decide they need to pull money out for something else (education, buying a house) or they might find markets too scary, once they start learning about the world. Life is very dynamic for young people. Stock markets are very scary to a lot of people.

I would steer them towards a *medium* risk fund, something that would still be OK even if they decide to pull their money out later. Depending on what kind of account they have (which broker) I think any of these would be great suggestions:

XBAL or VBAL
Mawer Balanced Fund
PH&N Balanced Fund, series D


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## baker3232$ (Mar 13, 2018)

Don’t hang on to your losers hoping they will come back.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> TQQQ


 There was an extensive discussion on TQQQ/TMF 50/50 with a quarter rebalancing
or 55% UPRO / 45% TMF


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> There was an extensive discussion on TQQQ/TMF 50/50 with a quarter rebalancing
> or 55% UPRO / 45% TMF


where? anyone?


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

jargey3000 said:


> where? anyone?





https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=288192


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=288192


UPRO is insanely dangerous to hold overnight. If the index ever falls close to 30% in one day, or over a sequence of days, the entire fund can be wiped out. The issuer can also terminate the fund prematurely (to protect themselves) which would lock in your losses. Another highly leveraged fund, XIV, was shut down in this way and locked in massive losses for speculators.

There was a day a year ago when the US index fell 10% and maybe even a bit more. There was a nearly 13% drop in another US index fund. Something like a 30% decline (perhaps over two days) is definitely possible, and you'd lose everything.

You would face other problems too, such as slow or malfunctioning quote / order entry systems, which could prevent you from closing a disastrous position. This is the kind of thing that happens during market crashes.

Don't expect your "stop loss" orders to work properly, either.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> raises hand.....ME INTERESTED! 👋


jargey did you ever download ToS? I'm curious if you ever looked into this, and if not, why?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

bigmoneytalks said:


> Interested!! 😊


Haven't heard back from you, Did you ever dowload ToS? I'm curious if you looked into this and if not, why?


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

Ponderling said:


> get them an account that cannot be looked up online, and get statements mailed to them once a month. QE code on the statement that allows online access to their account for 5 days to make trades then the online goes dark again


Is there such a thing?


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

If I had to do it all over again I would just put everything into an all-equity fund... preferably something like VEQT, XEQT, or XIU if you'd rather stay in Canadian stocks. Max your TFSA, then your RRSP if you can. You need maximum growth during your 20's so you can take most of that money and buy a home when you reach your 30's. The exact timing will depend on the markets, so you will have to be a bit flexible. But starting as early as possible will give you the most flexibility. The important thing is you'll beat inflation over the long term, and hopefully keep up with house price increases.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

nathan79 said:


> The important thing is you'll beat inflation over the long term, and hopefully keep up with house price increases.


I wish I had learned that lesson better as well, early on: that consistently being invested (staying invested) beats inflation, and gets you a positive real return. That's such a key thing that took me many years to understand.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> jargey did you ever download ToS? I'm curious if you ever looked into this, and if not, why?


not yet Rus' ....been busy doing 'spring cleaning work'...
will try to have a look, but might be a bit too involved for me....


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

jargey I could explain the whole thing to a 10 year old child in half an hour. It costs nothing. I wonder if there could be some other reason?


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

To see how this can happen, let’s say you put $10,000 in the Nasdaq 100 index and another $10,000 in TQQQ.
On day one, the Nasdaq 100 goes up 2%, turning that $10,000 into $10,200. TQQQ, tripling the daily return of the index, goes up 6%, turning your other $10,000 into $10,600.
On day two, the index falls back 1.96%, leaving you the $10,000 you started with. The leveraged fund, however, triples the market’s losses as well as its gains. So TQQQ falls three times as much, shrinking to $9,976.
If the same thing happens two more days in a row, you’ll finish with $10,000 in the Nasdaq 100, but TQQQ will have shrunk to $9,953. With the triple fund, you’ll have lost 0.5% in four days—even though the market ended right where it began. (That’s not counting the fund’s 0.95% in annual expenses.)
In short, if you hold this fund over the course of a year when the Nasdaq 100 is flat, you are highly likely to lose money—potentially nearly all your money.








This Fund Is Up 7,298% in 10 Years. You Don’t Want It.


A leveraged fund that goes by its ticker, TQQQ, triples the daily upside of the Nasdaq 100 index. Only trouble is, it also triples the downside.




www.wsj.com


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Retiredguy said:


> Is there such a thing?


No , just me dreaming. I work with younger employees who cant believe that I once bought stocks, without being able to check their price on the the smart phone every five minutes.

I think that my dreamed up sort of account could actually be in the investors favor by saving them from their own behaviour.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ponderling said:


> No , just me dreaming. I work with younger employees who cant believe that I once bought stocks, without being able to check their price on the the smart phone every five minutes.
> 
> I think that my dreamed up sort of account could actually be in the investors favor by saving them from their own behaviour.


I got a gift of stocks once. I'd go and buy the globe and mail weekly to see what they were priced at.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> To see how this can happen, let’s say you put $10,000 in the Nasdaq 100 index and another $10,000 in TQQQ.
> On day one, the Nasdaq 100 goes up 2%, turning that $10,000 into $10,200. TQQQ, tripling the daily return of the index, goes up 6%, turning your other $10,000 into $10,600.
> On day two, the index falls back 1.96%, leaving you the $10,000 you started with. The leveraged fund, however, triples the market’s losses as well as its gains. So TQQQ falls three times as much, shrinking to $9,976.
> If the same thing happens two more days in a row, you’ll finish with $10,000 in the Nasdaq 100, but TQQQ will have shrunk to $9,953. With the triple fund, you’ll have lost 0.5% in four days—even though the market ended right where it began. (That’s not counting the fund’s 0.95% in annual expenses.)
> ...


Congratulations, you figured out how to lose money on the most profitable investment I know. Now tell us how to make some money.
What if you put in a stoploss order that protected you from large losses? That is what I do and it works. Today TQQQ went from 109.06 to 111.22 and I made $8640. How much did you make today?


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## Machu Picchu (Dec 8, 2016)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> jargey I could explain the whole thing to a 10 year old child in half an hour. It costs nothing. I wonder if there could be some other reason?


I do thank you for teaching me ThinkorSwim. I had also studied various lectures by Mr. John Carter via YouTube. Mr. Carter in the past month made $5mil trading GOOG using his squeeze indicator. He is one of the co-founders of "simpler trading". 
I caught the squeeze from this past March as well but I was timid in putting in large amount of money for trading. I still made over 4k trading TQQQ. Thank you again Rusty!
With regards to the comments from Ukrainiandude, I think the issue is related to 3x ETF, not the signal of squeezing. I would be careful with 3X in a constant up-and-down market. The 3X ETF works best if the trend is one direction.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Machu Picchu said:


> I do thank you for teaching me ThinkorSwim. I had also studied various lectures by Mr. John Carter via YouTube. Mr. Carter in the past month made $5mil trading GOOG using his squeeze indicator. He is one of the co-founders of "simpler trading".
> I caught the squeeze from this past March as well but I was timid in putting in large amount of money for trading. I still made over 4k trading TQQQ. Thank you again Rusty!
> With regards to the comments from Ukrainiandude, I think the issue is related to 3x ETF, not the signal of squeezing. I would be careful with 3X in a constant up-and-down market. The 3X ETF works best if the trend is one direction.


Thanks for getting back to me, I wondered how you were doing. Did you paper trade as I suggested or jump right in? You are doing fine, it is best to trade small until you get the feel for things. Once you have a winning system the hardest thing is controlling your emotions and that is much easier when you are trading small. The hard part for me, was to set a good stoploss and stick with it and not second guess myself when the market started falling. It is gratifying to know one person benefited from what I had to say.

I did belong to Simpler Trading for a year, that is where I learned the squeeze among other things, but Carter's trading style was too frantic for me. I'm not cut out for day trading so I worked out something that suits me better. I know he has made some great option trades and am not surprised he is doing well in Goog.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Agreed James. That Mawer Balanced Fund (MAW104) is a gem.


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## hboy54 (Sep 16, 2016)

Too bad some people can't be convinced to pay attention to their finances. Any reasonable plan and effort over 40 years will earn about what one's 2000 hours annually in the salt mine earn, but with 1/100th the time invested.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Machu Picchu said:


> I do thank you for teaching me ThinkorSwim. I had also studied various lectures by Mr. John Carter via YouTube. Mr. Carter in the past month made $5mil trading GOOG using his squeeze indicator. He is one of the co-founders of "simpler trading".
> I caught the squeeze from this past March as well but I was timid in putting in large amount of money for trading. I still made over 4k trading TQQQ. Thank you again Rusty!
> With regards to the comments from Ukrainiandude, I think the issue is related to 3x ETF, not the signal of squeezing. I would be careful with 3X in a constant up-and-down market. The 3X ETF works best if the trend is one direction.


Did you find my ideas difficult to follow or understand? I think what I do could be grasped by an intelligent school child, am I wrong?
A lot of people think something has to be very complicated if it is any good, especially investing. I know I used to think this way, it took a long time to figure out that the simplest way is often the best way.


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## Machu Picchu (Dec 8, 2016)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Thanks for getting back to me, I wondered how you were doing. Did you paper trade as I suggested or jump right in? You are doing fine, it is best to trade small until you get the feel for things. Once you have a winning system the hardest thing is controlling your emotions and that is much easier when you are trading small. The hard part for me, was to set a good stoploss and stick with it and not second guess myself when the market started falling. It is gratifying to know one person benefited from what I had to say.
> 
> I did belong to Simpler Trading for a year, that is where I learned the squeeze among other things, but Carter's trading style was too frantic for me. I'm not cut out for day trading so I worked out something that suits me better. I know he has made some great option trades and am not surprised he is doing well in Goog.


S
Sorry for the delayed reply. I am usually quite busy during the day.
I followed your advise and got Think&Swim set up via TDDI. However the account I got was for paper trading only. So I use the squeeze from Think&Swim to follow the stocks that I am interested in, then I place the trades with TDDI. I usually buy 100 shares of TQQQ at a time.
The squeeze signal was very clear on Mar 8. I waited for two yellow bar for entry. (this was also your recommendation). It was a bit stressful in the week of Mar 15 because TQQQ had a dip. But overall I held onto it and made a small profit. I am becoming more confident in using the system. It really helps you to hold onto the stocks while everyone else screams for exit. John mentioned that usually there will be three to four squeezes a year. I wonder if the squeeze correlates with earning reports. I am a bit cautious this year because all the stimulus packages had been rolled out. It remains to be seen if the market would deliver the high expectation from last year.
I don't have time for day trading so I just follow John Carter's twitter. He sometimes gives out his opinion about the market.
I started learning investment in 2016. This website is one of my favourite sites to read through each night. From the site I got 5-pack, MAW104&105, and a few others (CNR, PBH, T, WEF, .....). I like quality Canadian bluechips.
So thank you Rusty and everyone else who writes in this forum. I have learned tremendously from this website and I plan to continue doing this. In my biased opinion this forum is way better than FMF.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Congratulations, you figured out how to lose money on the most profitable investment I know. Now tell us how to make some money.
> What if you put in a stoploss order that protected you from large losses? That is what I do and it works. Today TQQQ went from 109.06 to 111.22 and I made $8640. How much did you make today?


I am not trying to critique your method. I have provided the link for the information purposes.
I sure your method is valid and effective.
I just can’t understand why it only has to be TorS from TD. No other platforms have squeeze indicator?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Ukrainiandude said:


> I am not trying to critique your method. I have provided the link for the information purposes.
> I sure your method is valid and effective.
> I just can’t understand why it only has to be TorS from TD. No other platforms have squeeze indicator?


I don't know if any other platform has the squeeze indicator as ToS is the only one I use. I started using it 7 or 8 years ago because it is the best for trading options. I don't trade options anymore but never changed brokers, there may be better platforms I have not tried.
The reason I suggest downloading ToS and paper trading it (it's free) is so we will both be reading off the same page. Once you get the idea you can trade any stock, ETF, etc on any platform using the same method.
By the way I don't use the squeeze indicator the way John Carter uses it. I have my own method that uses the squeeze, backed up by RSI, moving averages, volume, and support and resistance levels. I use the squeeze indicator to find turning points or bottoms.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Machu Picchu said:


> S
> Sorry for the delayed reply. I am usually quite busy during the day.
> I followed your advise and got Think&Swim set up via TDDI. However the account I got was for paper trading only. So I use the squeeze from Think&Swim to follow the stocks that I am interested in, then I place the trades with TDDI. I usually buy 100 shares of TQQQ at a time.
> The squeeze signal was very clear on Mar 8. I waited for two yellow bar for entry. (this was also your recommendation). It was a bit stressful in the week of Mar 15 because TQQQ had a dip. But overall I held onto it and made a small profit. I am becoming more confident in using the system. It really helps you to hold onto the stocks while everyone else screams for exit. John mentioned that usually there will be three to four squeezes a year. I wonder if the squeeze correlates with earning reports. I am a bit cautious this year because all the stimulus packages had been rolled out. It remains to be seen if the market would deliver the high expectation from last year.
> ...


The March 8 signal was a stressful one, the price dawdled around for more than 2 weeks before it took off, but note that it never dropped as low as the low of March 5, in other words the downward run was over and the low was in, it just took a long time to take off. I was stopped out during this period but got back in after a couple of days, I told you I am rather cautious, hate to lose money, and keep a tight stoploss. But I was all in for the 37% gain between March 25 and April 16.
You get better the longer you follow the markets. It took me 2 or 3 years to get the hang of this method, but I had no one to teach me and had to work out everything for myself. You are going to do fine. As you have already noticed you do not have to watch the markets all the time, a few minutes at the end of the day is good enough.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Congratulations, you figured out how to lose money on the most profitable investment I know. Now tell us how to make some money.
> What if you put in a stoploss order that protected you from large losses? That is what I do and it works. Today TQQQ went from 109.06 to 111.22 and I made $8640. How much did you make today?


Google Dow award leveraged for the long run. Very well written.

I think the system would work with just simple seasonal as well as Decennial pattern which beat the market by over 44 fold since something like 1900 to 2015 according to AW Millar. I have been long the TQQQs since Sept 28. Will be selling them near the top of a 5 wave rally I am tracking. On a 3 wave pull back will be looking to go long deep in the money calls on TQQQ strike about 50% of intrinsic value going out in time as far as possible. If the decline is 5 waves instead of 3 will be looking to short though will be looking for 5 down in the spy as it is more liquid then TQQQ for shorting with options.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Ukrainiandude said:


> There was an extensive discussion on TQQQ/TMF 50/50 with a quarter rebalancing
> or 55% UPRO / 45% TMF


I wanted to push up this thread as I stumbled upon this where it talks about a leveraged Golden Butterfly Portfolio. Golden Butterfly Portfolio Review and M1 Finance ETF Pie

And then it refers to this HEDGEFUNDIE's Excellent Adventure (UPRO/TMF) - A Summary with 55% UPRO and 45% TMF.

Is there any leveraged ETF which are all-world?


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