# Moody’s issues warning about Ontario’s growing deficit



## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Didn't take long...

Moody’s issues warning about Ontario’s growing deficit



> On the eve of a Throne Speech outlining Premier Kathleen Wynne’s plan for her new majority mandate, Moody’s has issued a stark warning on Ontario’s growing deficit.
> 
> The bond rating agency has changed its outlook on the province to “negative,” cautioning its credit rating could be downgraded if it doesn’t show progress either cutting spending or hiking revenues. In a note late Wednesday, Moody’s said it was concerned by the Liberals’ plan to miss interim targets for erasing red ink.


Wynn has to satisfy the opposing demands. Public unions vs. bond market. Good luck with that.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I am glad you mentioned this goldstone because in BC we are dealing with a teachers strike where the teachers want huge benefit and wage hikes and disguise this want as a play for class size to help the students. I am for fair wage and benefits but I am not for holding the public hostage in the way that the private unions cannot. Luckily Christy Clark is not backing down to these crazy demands and holding her ground.

I think public unions should be subject to back to work legislation because they do not bargain in good faith for a fair settlement like private sector unions do. I believe in the end BC will legislate the teachers back to work as fair bargaining is impossible.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A teachers strike in the summer?

That is kind of..............redundant.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> Didn't take long...
> 
> Moody’s issues warning about Ontario’s growing deficit
> 
> ...


I thinks we are headed down a road of no recovery and the gay pedagogue with glasses isn't going to do anything about it. The unions and union demands, while they may be
appeased with the budget in the shortfall, long term it is another story and headed down a slipperly slope.

Bob Rae tried that during his term in the Ont govt..during one of the worse recessions in Ontario's history..he openly declared he would 'SPEND HIS WAY OUT OF THE RECESSION'..
...it was a very bad idea and things got worse as a result. 

I'm not saying that Hudak was the right choice, and his ill advised campaign was not what Ontario wanted to hear, but if you are in serious personal financial trouble, yoi
cannot have gain without some pain. If you are overdrawn on your CC debt and not making your minimum payments from month to month (running a deficit) what is
going to happen eventually? (rhetorical question)...the same is going to happen with this province. In the end, the only way to compensate for the deficit at least
is RAISING TAXES for an additional source of revenue..something the Province can do..... that the individual, (who has to declare bankruptcy eventually), can't. 

http://www.troymedia.com/2014/05/02...ushes-ontario-further-in-the-wrong-direction/


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I am looking forward to the higher yield on Ontario Bonds.


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

What average Ontarioian really cares about the deficit? The average Canadian is in $28,000 of consumer debt, which has been growing for some time thanks to piggybacking off dirt-cheap interest rates. If people can log into their online banking every day and stare their own deficits in the face with apathetic minimum payments, a government deficit would seem just as ignorable.

The Conservatives agenda was somewhat unrealistic and very poorly executed. But they were upfront about the dirty work. The Liberals decided to take the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" route. And who knows? Maybe Ontario will be in a better position fiscally by 2018. But the Libs may be regretting the lack of upfront honesty in the end.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

DayTek said:


> But the Libs may be regretting the lack of upfront honesty in the end.


They'll just get voted out, lay low for a day or three, then come back as the Opposition claiming they can fix all the Conservative's/NDP's problems.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> They'll just get voted out, lay low for a day or three, then come back as the Opposition claiming they can fix all the Conservative's/NDP's problems.


I thinks there will be a showdown if the deficit is NOT CLEARED OUT by late 2017. This is mid 2014, we have 3 years plus of Liberal spending to start now.
Projecting the current deficit + additional shortfall each year to 2018 (election year) we can expect 12.5 +.5 (13billion for end of 2014, and we may have already surpassed that)
14 billion by end of 2015,
15 billion by end of 2016 
and 16 billion by end of 2017..the year that Wynne has promised she will "eliminate the deficit"..but...

IF that is the case..HOW exactly does she plan on doing that? 
Campaign promises have a habit of being swept under the rug when the infrastructure spending steamroller gets into action.

Yes, she will argue. spending on infrastructure is necessary for Ontario to grow and (hopefully) grow and stimulate creation of new jobs, something that Ontario desperately needs as
production here keeps shifting to other countries.

So it's a two edged sword she is faced with..side A) cut spending and try to eliminate the deficit (stagnation of the economy) OR side B) spend like crazy on infrastructure and other election promises and see the deficit rise slowly but surely. 

Figuratively speaking... Wynne is wielding a two edge sword in her tenure as Premier over the next 3.5 years..will she make it...even with the majority she has been given?
It really is a tough call for her.
If she selects side A (without increased taxation) to eliminate the budget...and slashes spending..Ontario will plunge into a mini recession cause by Ontario gov't policies. 
If she selects side B without increased taxation (which is already a huge burden on the taxpayers) the deficit will continue rising

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...ng-and-restraint-will-balance-ontario-budget/


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Well, everyone knew the downgrade was coming, but did u expect that so was McGuinty? 

“It can be really hard in this contact sport, where there are no referees, which distinguishes this contact sport from all the others, it can be very hard to protect your reputation, but *you can always protect your character. “How do you do that? You do what you think is right,” he told reporters."* :shame:

Now Wynne is all hugs & kisses, so what happened during the campaign, she forgot his name?

Again, thanks sags for introducing me to Ms. Blizzard.








http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/03/dark-clouds-hanging-over-ontario


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

The S&P rating will be out shortly..

This downgrade will have an impact on all levels of public borrowing in Ontario.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

McGuinty IS BACK! It was all a ruse so that Wynne could try and run the election without being "tied into" him. She won, the Fiberals are back..now the conniving, wasteful, squandering and
alleged "criminal activity"/ corruption can continue in earnest again..for at least another 3.5 years.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> McGuinty IS BACK! It was all a ruse so that Wynne could try and run the election without being "tied into" him. She won, the Fiberals are back..now the conniving, wastegul, squandering and
> alleged "criminal activity"/ corruption can continue in earnest again..for at least another 3.5 years.


Wow....never saw _that_ coming. Yeah, right.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> Wow....never saw _that_ coming. Yeah, right.


I just call them the way I see them. :biggrin:


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> I just call them the way I see them. :biggrin:


And I happen to agree.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> And I happen to agree.


So you see Nemo..all this denial that she wasn`t aware of the hard drive erasure now is being shown in a `different light` They were working together, he and her, she was his loyal subject.
He left to allow her to "glide over" the controversy and allow the heat to be placed solely on his shoulders..but this was planned all along....

as a way to get out of the sticky political situation with his/her blunder on the cancelled gas plants. 

The investigation by the OPP will prove NOTHING. Nobody goes to jail..just some more taxpayers money wasted and add to the deficit..now growing at an alarming rate each day.

The OPP unions actually supported her in her campaign. 

So it's back to the same old-same old. It's only been a few days now since they opened the new session of the Ontario Legislature..but her trusted advisor is back and no doubt on the "payroll".


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

^ As I said in comment #12. (Perhaps I should have added /sarc?)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

So what you are saying Carverman..........is that the Liberals were smarter politically than the Conservatives ?

T.Gal............glad you read Ms. Blizzard but take her articles with a grain of salt. She was heavily invested in the election of Hudak from the first day of the campaign and in defeat is disillusioned and bitter. Her multitude of articles failed to sway the masses.......and she is probably feeling a lack of relevance these days.

For some reason the Sun media believes the Liberals...........after having received the necessary support of the voters of Ontario to form a majority government.......should abandon the plan that got them elected...........and adopt the losing Hudak strategy.

I doubt that is going to happen.

The Liberals will do exactly what they said they would do. They will spend on infrastructure, find savings in the budget, and raise revenues.

Will it be enough to balance the books ?............Who knows..........depends on if the Ontario economy grows to increase revenues, and if the Liberals are elected in Ottawa, which would likely result in billions more to Ontario in transfer payments.

If I recall correctly, the Drummond Commission predicted the Ontario deficit would fall in future years, if the Liberals did nothing.......so we shall see what transpires.

Lots of politics to debate ahead.....................


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

sags said:


> T.Gal............glad you read Ms. Blizzard but *take her articles with a grain of salt.*


Of course I do. More than anything, she's entertaining. 

You might have added that Ms. Blizzard's disillusionment was completed when Ms. Wynne refused to give her an interview. She learned from Ford.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

A negative change to the ratings was almost certain.
A full downgrade may or may not happen.

Anyhow, it is now clear that literally no one cares any more.
The LPO and its supporters are drunk with their recent success.

_Of course_ the deficit will not be eliminated in 2017 (or 2018, or 2019....) - there is not even the hint of a desire to do so.
Ontario govt. will muddle along like this for at least 4 - 6 more years, safe in the knowledge that the Federal govt. (regardless of CPC or Liberal) will not allow Ontario to renege on its debt.

In any case, Ontario has more than enough tools to increase revenue - such as raise the PST portion by 2%, increase gas taxes, more income taxes, and so on.

The net, net effect of any ratings downgrade is simple - just more taxes down the road for Ontario residents.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> _Of course_ the deficit will not be eliminated in 2017 (or 2018, or 2019....) - there is not even the hint of a desire to do so.
> Ontario govt. will muddle along like this for at least 4 - 6 more years, safe in the knowledge that the Federal govt. (regardless of CPC or Liberal) will not allow Ontario to renege on its debt.


We all can sleep soundly knowing that a country or a major province (by area and population) cannot go bankrupt. Whatever debt is accumulated gets passed on to future generations even the deficits. 



> In any case, Ontario has more than enough tools to increase revenue - such as raise the PST portion by 2%, increase gas taxes, more income taxes, and so on.
> 
> The net, net effect of any ratings downgrade is simple - just more taxes down the road for Ontario residents.


There is ALWAYS some leeway for raising taxes. The consumption taxes are definitely an easy way, since it affects all consumers. 

This will happen as soon as the deficit continues to climb..maybe as early as the next budge?t.. well..as soon as the "drunken celebration of the LPO".. and Wynne and McGuinty have had their victory dance. Right now, the "honeymoon" is still on...neither Horwath nor..? Elliot are invited.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> We all can sleep soundly knowing that a country or a major province (by area and population) cannot go bankrupt. Whatever debt is accumulated gets passed on to future generations even the deficits. ...
> 
> *There is ALWAYS some leeway for raising taxes. The consumption taxes are definitely an easy way, since it affects all consumers. *
> 
> This will happen as soon as the deficit continues to climb..maybe as early as the next budge?t.. well..as soon as the "drunken celebration of the LPO".. and *Wynne and McGuinty have had their victory dance. *Right now, the "honeymoon" is still on...neither Horwath nor..? Elliot are invited.


 ... so at the end of the day, it's the same old, same old. It may be Wynne's game now but she ain't gonna to be winning ... :fatigue:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so at the end of the day, it's the same old, same old. It may be Wynne's game now but *she ain't gonna to be winning *... :fatigue:


???
It's not whether she (Wynne) wins the election or loses to..?? Back in Bill Davis's (PC) gov't days..there was what they called the* BIG BLUE MACHINE* that powered his election strategy,
and was very sucessfull at it, I might add. Davis steamrolled over his opponents during his elections. Davis governed from 1971 to 1985 ..FOR 14 years ONTARIO WAS BLUE.

This time it is the BIG RED MACHINE that has steamrolled over Hudak and Horwath. 

Steamrolling and discrediting your opponents is fine during the election phase,..but sooner or later, you have to pick up the reins of gov't and slog ahead to try and sort out what is essential
in gov't spending and what is not..considering the economic climate of Ontario.

I just heard that BMW is building a huge plant in Mexico....not the US or Canada....why? The Auto Unions..which will kill any growth of that industry in this province. 


*Davis governed until 1985 with a team of advisers known as the "Big Blue Machine" because of their reputed political and strategic skills.* Their stamp on the party was so strong that many refer to the Tories' long rule over Ontario as the "Big Blue Machine era."



> During Davis's time as leader of the PC Party, the party moved to the centre, and on some issues, moved to the left of the Liberals. However, its base of support remained with socially conservative voters in rural central Ontario. This made him one of the most popular politicians in Ontario's history. Other conservatives in the federal PC Party accused him of damaging the conservative image in Canada by moving to the left on some issues.


..and history repeats itself..but this time with a red sock instead of a blue one....


> *The Progressive Conservatives were returned with a majority government in the 1981 provincial election, mostly at the expense of the NDP.* Soon after the election, Davis announced that John Tory (who would become leader of the PCs 23 years later) had been hired to succeed Hugh Segal as his principal secretary. He also announced that Ontario would purchase a 25% share in the energy corporation Suncor, despite opposition from within his own caucus.


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