# You know what really grinds my gears?...



## peterk (May 16, 2010)

when someone says they "own their own house", and half the people around appear to be impressed by the person's success and affluence because of it. When in actuality they "own" 10% of a house and are enslaved to a bank for 400 grand.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Totally agree. My wife was watching 'My Money, Your House' today where parents put money down for their kids to get a house. Then they do an interview and the kid states how proud they are now that they own a house.


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## cedebe (Feb 1, 2012)

Interesting. I would have thought that if someone says they own their own home, they literally mean it and are now living mortgage-free.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

They are just looking at the positive side..........the glass 10% full


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Well if they said they did not own the home, most would assume they are renting.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

First world problems...


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Doesn't really bother me what others are saying or doing. I am glad you posted this though. I have been feeling a little inadequate with the 'Jones' the last few days. Normally, this doesn't happen, but went to a couple of birthday parties for my kids this weekend, and both were considered 'lower key' compared to normal. Anyways, their house were 3 car garage, 4000-6000 sq foot new homes, in really affluent areas. 

I kept thinking, how great would it be to be able to have all my kids friends at my house, but it would be hard to stick them in the washrooms and closets. I wanted to buy a larger home (have for a while). My spouse reminded me that we literally do own everything that we have, and I know they other don't . Sometimes, its just hard, especially when my kids ask if we're poor, and why all the other kids have such big places with so many things.

I just reply its about the choices we make, and what we see as important. I just need to keep telling myself this. Thanks for letting me post.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> Doesn't really bother me what others are saying or doing. I am glad you posted this though. I have been feeling a little inadequate with the 'Jones' the last few days. Normally, this doesn't happen, but went to a couple of birthday parties for my kids this weekend, and both were considered 'lower key' compared to normal. Anyways, their house were 3 car garage, 4000-6000 sq foot new homes, in really affluent areas.


They are probably mortgaged to the hilt as they say. As soon as some financial disaster occurs, they may not be able to sustain that 4000 to 6000 sq ft house with a 3 car garage.




> I wanted to buy a larger home (have for a while). My spouse reminded me that we literally do own everything that we have, and I know they other don't . Sometimes, its just hard, especially when my kids ask if we're poor, and why all the other kids have such big places with so many things.


What is home ownership really? Just means that you are not paying rent and investing in a commodity that can be sold at the current market value,
where you are allow to keep (nearly) all the equity, unlike some other investments where the government is there to reachinto your pocket,
when you want to use some of them. Pay your mortgage, pay your taxes and life goes on...it doesn't matter if you live in a big "chateau"
or a bungalow..as long as you are happy..because in life..EVERYTHING is temporary..including home ownership.:biggrin:


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Agreed. Or people who call a house, a home. It's not. It's a house. And a house is not necessarily an automatic investment, either. Both are flawed assumptions. 

A home is where you hang your hat. For some people it's an apartment, others a hotel room and others a detached dwelling that they happen to owe the bank $400K as the OP describes. But it's not actually theirs until the mortgage is paid off. I just have a hard time with the statement that you must sign your name to a mortgage on a detached dwelling before calling your living arrangement "home".
</rant off>


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> ..as long as you are happy..because in life..EVERYTHING is temporary..including home ownership


...+100 ... couldn't agree more. And the weather is going to suck big time today. :eek2:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> Doesn't really bother me what others are saying or doing. I am glad you posted this though. I have been feeling a little inadequate with the 'Jones' the last few days. Normally, this doesn't happen, but went to a couple of birthday parties for my kids this weekend, and both were considered 'lower key' compared to normal. Anyways, their house were 3 car garage, 4000-6000 sq foot new homes, in really affluent areas.


I hear you loud and clear PA. I try to run my finances in a similar manner to you ie somewhat responsible, but it is hard since there are temptations from things I'd like to spend more $$ on. Bicycles, traveling, cars etc.

I don't know what the solution is or even if there is one, but I try to think of the long term/big picture. Having a better and improving financial situation means less stress for me, which is a very good thing. The other thing I try to think about is retirement. The more money I "waste" now, means less options in the future which likely means having to work longer (whether I want to or not).


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Why get worked up about a common phrase? When asked if I rent or own I'm not going to reply with, "I have 57 to 63 percent equity in my house depending on valuation and market conditions." I'm more likely to say the bank owns it, but that's just me.

Likewise, when I hear "home" I don't hear "house" either. My house is my home, but it could be my apartment or condo. I also think home ownership gets used as a broader term since it encompasses apartments, townhouses, and such.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Another thing I've never understood: people say they paid x for their house, but x is usually just the purchase price, which (depending on their downpayment, interest rate, and term of mortgage) could amount to little more than half what will actually come out of their pockets. It's fine when you're just talking about market value, but you see people who sell their house for $20K more than their original purchase price and brag that they came out ahead, when in actual fact they may have lost tens of thousands of dollars in the sale because they weren't considering all the money they shelled out in interest on the mortgage. If your house is paid off, to truly come out ahead you have to recoup both the purchase price and the interest when you sell, along with whatever you spent on maintenance and repairs.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

brad said:


> If your house is paid off, to truly come out ahead you have to recoup both the purchase price and the interest when you sell, along with whatever you spent on maintenance and repairs.


That's only partly true. A home owner derives benefit from her residence in the form of imputed rent. In housing, the bulk of the "gains" over the long term will be through renting to oneself. The price appreciation will be modest, at best keeping pace with inflation once you net out updates, maintenance and repairs.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Plugging along how old are your kids?Just curious at what age they think in terms of being poor vs the 'rich kids living in the big houses'? I just got released from Critical care on October 16 , I went into full diabetic shock with blood sugar 71 ,never been diabetic in my life!Lucky to literally be alive as the Doctor said in the ER they never registered that blood sugar and had a person live.But good news I have EXCELLENT kidneys which saved my life.I am not allowed to work for two months now so warning you all I have nothing to do except bug you guys lol and tragically I cannot play poker as it is too stressful right now .There are some times it is very smart to rent than own,an example of that is the place my daughter rents,if she owned it even with 20% down I am sure it will cost her extra $900 a month.But for many people ,myself included owning our home is very important and not many can pay in cash so mortgages help realize that dream.Just curious to OP do you rent or own?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Most people ignore the costs of renting the money to live in a house, drive a car, own a cottage, even drive a boat, motorhome, motorcycle et al. You can deduct the costs of imputed rent from your home netted against the cost of renting the money but you also need to account for the weekly trips to Home Depot/Canadian Tire for him and Micheals/Bed Bath and Beyond et al for her.

There is no other imputed costs for the other items. You might offset the cost of transit but that will be a drop in the bucket.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Maybe Later said:


> Why get worked up about a common phrase? When asked if I rent or own I'm not going to reply with, "I have 57 to 63 percent equity in my house depending on valuation and market conditions."


Exactly! Also, most people take years to pay off their mortgages, so it goes without saying, that in most cases [depending on age], it's understood the banks own a significant portion as well.

As crazyjackcsa said, 'First world problems' indeed. :rolleyes2:

*Marina:* take care.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

I think some of you should listen to Russell Peter's humourous take on poverty in India, maybe then how others are calling ownership of their house or home wouldn't be so annoying ;-)


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Marina I'm more of a lurker than a major contributor here but I'm sure nobody minds if you "bug" everyone here. Good to hear you made it out alright!



Plugging Along said:


> I kept thinking, how great would it be to be able to have all my kids friends at my house, but it would be hard to stick them in the washrooms and closets. I wanted to buy a larger home (have for a while). My spouse reminded me that we literally do own everything that we have, and I know they other don't . Sometimes, its just hard, especially when my kids ask if we're poor, and why all the other kids have such big places with so many things.


PA, something to consider: Why not hold a birthday party somewhere else if your house is small? I remember going to a birthday party at a waterpark, they had rented a party room for the group for when we were done playing for cake and such. There are other places that you could rent out I'm sure, or just have the party as an afternoon at a park or something. I suppose the downside is it would be harder to keep track of everyone and make sure you don't lose a kid... could recruit a couple of other parents to help out, depending how big the party is. This would be more frugal than buying a bigger house so you could hold parties. Just a suggestion.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

How about: I own my house and I'm renting half a million dollars from the bank?


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

andrewf said:


> How about: I own my house and I'm renting half a million dollars from the bank?


lol, good one.
;-)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Wow, sorry about your illness, Marina. I'm glad you're okay! I was wondering where you had been, actually.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Homerhomer said:


> I think some of you should listen to Russell Peter's humourous take on poverty in India, maybe then how others are calling ownership of their house or home wouldn't be so annoying ;-)


+3!

And also pay attention to other non-humourous stuff that will let you appreciate how very fortunate you are. For example, some people call this home:










Some of the things people complain about is so inconsequential.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

andrewf said:


> How about: I own my house and I'm renting half a million dollars from the bank?


Nicely put Andrew!

I think the "Your House, My Money" show is a tad nuts. I've seen bits and peices of a couple of episodes and the recipients seem ungrateful and spoiled. 

PA I empthathize! I live in a shoebox (less than 500sqft) but I love entertaining but we can't have more than 1 couple over without things getting pretty tight. I am 3000+sq ft dreaming for the next move, but it will be costly. I know it will cost more, but for me the value-vs-cost tradeoff will be worthwhile. What I'm trying to say is that I am living a certain way now so I can get to my big house. Maybe you need to re-assess your priorities and values, maybe the larger house would be worthwhile for you and your family.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

500sf? I'm impressed!

I for one do not want a large house. 3000sf? Just think of all the cleaning... the stuff you have to buy to fill it out, because you can't have bare walls and no furniture... the junk you'll collect because you have so much room that you just put it somewhere instead of throwing it out or donating it... the heating bills... the cost to buy the house in the first place... the work and money involved in renovating it... ai carumba!

Maybe I'm just cheap and lazy.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Barwelle said:


> 500sf? I'm impressed!
> 
> I for one do not want a large house. 3000sf? Just think of all the cleaning... the stuff you have to buy to fill it out, because you can't have bare walls and no furniture... the junk you'll collect because you have so much room that you just put it somewhere instead of throwing it out or donating it... the heating bills... the cost to buy the pad in the first place... the work and money involved in renovating it... ai carumba!
> 
> Maybe I'm just cheap and lazy.


Count me in the cheap and lazy club! My house is about 1200 square feet and I often think it is just a little too big. I'd like to cut off a room or two.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> 1. 500sf?
> 2. ai carumba!


1. That's inhuman according to Liew Mun Leong....“It’s almost inhuman, it’s not good for the welfare of the family to feel that constrained,” said Liew, 65, who grew up in a one-bedroom apartment with nine people and often slept along the corridor.'
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...hoebox-apartments-inhuman-southeast-asia.html

2. Hay carAmba, once upon a time, people [with several children] were perfectly happy living in a delightful bungalow with 1 washroom and 1 car garage like the one below. 









How times have changed. 

*M.gal:* my place is a bit larger than yours, [a condo.] and also feel it's bigger than need be. However, I'm not exactly cheap [nor lazy, and neither r u] 

Lol, if you were to cut a room or two, you would end up with a doll-house. layful:


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Now THIS is a small house: 

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/20...estinations/20121025-LOCATION.html?ref=garden

28 inches wide at its narrowest point.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

If I got the bigger house I would definitely get a house cleaner haha *thinks back to the housecleaning thread in the frugality thread...*

But there'd be an income suite. And an iRobot (love those things!). 

I used to work with a woman who lived in a 2 bedroom condo with her husband, 2 children (1 girl, 1 boy) and her mother-in-law. People make things work. They now live in a house each:


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

I certainly wouldn't advocate squeezing _nine_ people into 500sf! At that point, yes, I would consider 600sf... I mean, 3000sf. Those shoebox apartments wouldn't be good for raising a family in.

It really depends on what your needs are. If you have many people in your household, yea it is worth it to buy a bigger house if you can afford it. 

This will make me look judgemental, but... here's a situation that makes me shake my head. (I guess I am judgemental.) Some neighbours of mine lived in and raised three kids in a 1200-1300sf house (x2 with the basement) for most or all of their married lives. This summer, with just one kid left at home, they sold it to him and built a house for the two of them that has more area on the main floor than their original house did in total. If I remember correctly, around 3000sf of living space excluding the basement. It's their money, they can do what they want... but... hay carAmba!


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

My parents' house (that I have never lived in) is MUCH larger than the house I grew up in. However, it has never occurred to me to be concerned about it. :biggrin:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Barwelle said:


> This will make me look judgemental, but... here's a situation that makes me shake my head. (I guess I am judgemental.) Some neighbours of mine lived in and raised three kids in a 1200-1300sf house (x2 with the basement) for most or all of their married lives. This summer, with just one kid left at home, they sold it to him and built a house for the two of them that has more area on the main floor than their original house did in total. If I remember correctly, around 3000sf of living space excluding the basement. It's their money, they can do what they want... but... hay carAmba!


I don't see anything wrong with this. It's very likely they always wanted a bigger house and couldn't afford it. Now the kids have gone, they figure they can afford their dream home and that's what they are doing.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

There are plain boomers I guess, and *'boomers with a zip'.* :biggrin: I'll be the latter, but minus the extra SF.
http://www.canadianmortgagesinc.ca/2012/09/not-all-boomers-downsize.html

Oh, the rain is getting very heavy.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

My parents bought a downsized house (they're both in their 70's) and they did a bunch of work on their original house in preparation for selling it. Then, surprise! After carrying out all the projects they'd always wanted to complete in their original house they liked it so much they weren't ready to sell it. So they took it off the market, and put the "new" house on the market and sold it instead.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My parents raised all of us in a 1600 sq ft one bathroom home , when I moved away from home(I am the baby) they built a new 3100 sq ft home with 3 bathrooms for themselves .But now that there are spouses and grand kids we are glad they did as it is fun to go as a family and stay together.Last time we all slept under same roof was 1978 lol


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

When we travelled through Montana.........we saw people living in the middle of nowhere in a small trailer with a pickup in the yard.

In the backwoods of Tennessee, we saw people living in small wood cabins in the woods.

Driving through Saskatchewan, we stopped in towns that had maybe 30 small homes. MLS has some for sale for 30,000 and less.

Somehow they all looked liberating to me. 

No debt.....no mortgage.........no rent.......no stress

Maybe they know something we don't?


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

You certainly own the liability of home ownership, let me tell you.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Marina; Most important... take care of yourself, I hope you recover quickly. 

My kids are 3 & 6, and my oldest started asking when she was 5. The youngest still has no idea. She's been wondering how come so many other kids she knows have bigger house (I mean ALOT bigger), so she asked us if we're poor. She asked if we were poor because we make her spend her own money on items we do not want to buy. 





Barwelle said:


> PA, something to consider: Why not hold a birthday party somewhere else if your house is small? I remember going to a birthday party at a waterpark, they had rented a party room for the group for when we were done playing for cake and such. There are other places that you could rent out I'm sure, or just have the party as an afternoon at a park or something. I suppose the downside is it would be harder to keep track of everyone and make sure you don't lose a kid... could recruit a couple of other parents to help out, depending how big the party is. This would be more frugal than buying a bigger house so you could hold parties. Just a suggestion.


Our birthdays are in the dead of winter for both girls so outdoor is out. We have done the outside parties for the most part, they are not cheap ($300-600) a pop. I actually really like entertaining, and have found our house small for what I like, I like big parties. I just don't want a mortgage, but every time I go to one of these houses, I am tempted. 



Young&Ambitious said:


> If I got the bigger house I would definitely get a house cleaner haha *thinks back to the housecleaning thread in the frugality thread...*
> 
> But there'd be an income suite. And an iRobot (love those things!).
> 
> I used to work with a woman who lived in a 2 bedroom condo with her husband, 2 children (1 girl, 1 boy) and her mother-in-law. People make things work. They now live in a house each:


I hate cleaning so much, I had a cleaner even when I lived in a 700 sq ft apt. I will always have a house cleaner.

I know things can definately work, I think it's a matter of convience, and a lifestyle people become accostomed too. I know we live in an one bedroom in NY with a baby, and 3 year old, plus we had our in laws stay for a visit. Not to say that I would do that long term, but it was definately doable.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> 500sf? I'm impressed!
> 
> Just think of all the cleaning... the stuff you have to buy to fill it out, because you can't have bare walls and no furniture... the junk you'll collect because you have so much room that you just put it somewhere instead of throwing it out or donating it... the heating bills... the cost to buy the house in the first place... the work and money involved in renovating it.


Not to mention the property taxes that keep rising every year.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

It's all about what people place value with. There's an economics term for that...something like Incremental Derived Utility (Satisfaction) per Dollar spent on Item/Area X. 

For some people, they'll spend those extra dollars on ie. housing and get a lot of satisfaction and others will not.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Four Pillars said:


> The other thing I try to think about is retirement. The more money I "waste" now, means less options in the future which likely means having to work longer (whether I want to or not).


what do you define as waste? I have this fight with myself all the time. I don't want to be the richest guy in the graveyard. a person can get hit by a bus on any given day, to some extent you have to live life, there has to be moderation - I don't want to save every penny for retirement cause when i am retired i won't have the energy to do what i can now, but on the other hand i don't want to go to the food bank when I am retired. So I set a saving goal for each month after that if i want to spend the rest on something i do. The pay yourself first principle and everything in moderation.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Hawkdog said:


> what do you define as waste? I have this fight with myself all the time. I don't want to be the richest guy in the graveyard. a person can get hit by a bus on any given day, to some extent you have to live life, there has to be moderation - I don't want to save every penny for retirement cause when i am retired i won't have the energy to do what i can now, but on the other hand i don't want to go to the food bank when I am retired. So I set a saving goal for each month after that if i want to spend the rest on something i do. The pay yourself first principle and everything in moderation.


'Waste' probably isn't the right word.

Obviously I don't want to spend money on something and end up regretting it (that would be a waste).

I think what I was referring to was your basic 'consuming'. Ie if I spend money on something discretionary like a new deck, new bike, extra vacation. None of those are necessarily wasteful, but they will all result in having less money to spend later on (or require working longer). 

One $3,000 bike probably won't make much difference, but if you add up a whole bunch of stuff like that or do what PA is tempted by and upgrade your house to the tune of $500k or more - then it will make a long term difference.

I do try to moderate - in fact this year I've really opened the floodgates.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

IMHO waste was the right word having raised two kids.

We look back on the amount of money spent on fads, birthday's, clothes, all were wants not needs. 

I guess that is the difference wants or needs.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Young&Ambitious said:


> It's all about what people place value with. There's an economics term for that...something like Incremental Derived Utility (Satisfaction) per Dollar spent on Item/Area X.
> 
> For some people, they'll spend those extra dollars on ie. housing and get a lot of satisfaction and others will not.


Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I read somewhere that a guy was struggling along to pay his way.........and he went to a clothing surplus store and bought a big bag of new socks. Everyday he would put a new pair of socks on. It made him feel better about his situation.

I know a couple of older geezers..........who are hanging onto several hundred thousand dollars to the point of ridiculousness.

One of them has almost 500,000 in cash and he lives in a 12 foot dump of a trailer, without water or heat. He bought an old car that he hasn't changed the ownership because it will cost 1,000 to safety check it. He wears the same torn shirt and pants all the time. Last week, he showed me his latest "deal".

He bought a pair of shoes, for almost nothing he said.

They were golf shoes.........still had the plastic cleats on the bottom.

I asked him if he golfed much, since he is 88 years old, and he said........no, I wear them as regular shoes.

I told my brother that if I ever get like him.............just shoot me.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Driving through Saskatchewan, we stopped in towns that had maybe 30 small homes. MLS has some for sale for 30,000 and less.
> 
> Somehow they all looked liberating to me.
> 
> ...


If you can find a house in Saskatchewan for $30,000 it won't be near any cities, potash mines or the oil field. $30,000 sounds cheap for a house until you consider there are no jobs or nearby amenities.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

I own my house. Sometimes I call it a home. They're just phrases. I also have a mortgage, that is a loan secured by my house. Doesn't mean that I don't own my house. Mortgage payments don't increase my ownership, they reduce my mortgage balance (after interest, of course). I have assumed the risks and rewards of home ownership, if my house goes up in value I get the gain, if the house goes down in value I absorb the loss. The bank can assume ownership of my house if I can't pay my mortgage, up until the point of default I am the homeowner.

To say a homeowner with a mortgage doesn't own a house, is akin to saying the shareholders don't own a company, the bond holders do. It doesn't make sense to me because the debtors have not assumed the risks and rewards of ownership, they just have a claim on the asset, up to the value of the debt in the event of a default.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> I know a couple of older geezers..........who are hanging onto several hundred thousand dollars to the point of ridiculousness.
> 
> One of them has almost 500,000 in cash and he lives in a 12 foot dump of a trailer, without water or heat.
> *He wears the same torn shirt and pants all the time.* Last week, he showed me his latest "deal".
> ...


You talking about me??:biggrin:

$500K in cash..probably used to "insulate" the walls of his 12 ft dump trailer.:tears_of_joy:
Cash is meaningless to a person who has achieved true tranquility living in this crazy fast paced world, where 3 levels of gov'ts continue to dig deeper
into your pockets every year...if you insist on living in a style that is above your means...4000 sq foot 3 garage homes.*.right? P.A?*
*"P.A. =" Anyways, their house were 3 car garage, 4000-6000 sq foot new homes, in really affluent areas."*

I like his frugal-ness though! I'm sure he doesn't take baths or showers to save on water too.
Eats out of dented tin cans, opened with a manual can opener. Heats water on an open fire, from wood scavenged in the dump.

Value Village is a good place to go shopping for used clothing.
Shoes..a bit harder since most people through out worn out shoes..but garbage cans (if you have the time to go looking..be a good source of
old shoes...if you don't mind the hobbo styling.

This guy reminds me of Red Skelton's (TV comedian) "Freddy-the-Freeloader" act...
http://www.clown-ministry.com/index...he_freeloader_red_skeltons_famous_hobo_clown/

and this song..."king of the road" by Roger Miller..
_
Trailer for sale or rent 
Rooms to let fifty cents
No phone no pool no pets 
I ain't got no cigarettes
Ah but, two hours of pushing broom 
Buys a eight by twelve four bit room
I'm a man of means by no means 
King of the road_


remember this..you come into this world with nothing, and you leave with nothing!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

At that point, money => annuity. Spend all your income every month, with a small emergency reserve.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Speaking of trailers, when I lived in Vermont my closest neighbour was an old guy who had about 15 trailer homes in his yard (at first I thought he was operating a trailer park). It turned out they were his nest egg: whenever he needed money he would sell a trailer home and live off that money for a year or so and then sell another one. He was in his 80s so he probably had enough trailers left to keep him going the rest of his life. A terrible investment strategy of course, but it worked for his purposes. He believed in having tangible assets. ;-)


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

brad said:


> Speaking of trailers, when I lived in Vermont my closest neighbour was an old guy who had about 15 trailer homes in his yard (at first I thought he was operating a trailer park). It turned out they were his nest egg: whenever he needed money he would sell a trailer home and live off that money for a year or so and then sell another one. He was in his 80s so he probably had enough trailers left to keep him going the rest of his life. A terrible investment strategy of course, but it worked for his purposes. He believed in having tangible assets. ;-)


All it takes is one tornado.....


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> Speaking of trailers, when I lived in Vermont my closest neighbour was an old guy who had about 15 trailer homes in his yard
> He was in his 80s so he probably had enough trailers left to keep him going the rest of his life. A terrible investment strategy of course, but it worked for his purposes. *He believed in having tangible assets*. ;-)


Maybe at 80, it probably wasn't so bad for him, Brad. But unfortunately trailers depreciate, and you always have to do some maintenance on them from time to time,
to prevent leaks/rot/mice and other bugs that may invade the inside.
Also, if you take the wheels off the trailer, then the tax assessor can tax you the same way they tax any shed over 100sq ft. (ie: a garden shed).

Speaking from experience and being a former owner of a trailer at trailer park (here in Ontario) , you have to leave the wheels on, otherwise the county tax assessor taxes it as a permanent structure and the trailer park owner has to collect property taxes on your lot besides the lot rental.
If you build an additional room off it with glass windows and doors to keep the cold out, you get taxes on the screen room structure, based on the age of the trailer.

Here in Ontario, if you had a rural property, and that many trailers on it, sooner or later they would find a way for increasing your property taxes..so with the depreciation, tire rubber rot and other things that can go on them..so trailers are a depreciating asset.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> remember this..you come into this world with nothing, and you leave with nothing!


Also enter the world with a cry of life, and for most, also exit with a sort of cry [pain].


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Also enter the world with a cry of life, and for most, also *exit with a sort of cry [pain]*.


Yes, how true. Unless, you are lucky enough to just die in your sleep and never wake up..or it happens to be instantaneous and unexpected too.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

carverman said:


> Maybe at 80, it probably wasn't so bad for him, Brad. But unfortunately trailers depreciate, and you always have to do some maintenance on them from time to time


As I said, a terrible investment strategy, and certainly risky. Still, his needs were small: he had no telephone, no running water (he filled up a tank from our well once a week), didn't eat much, spent his days at home, and had no family that we knew of. So it didn't matter to him that his assets were depreciating; as long as he could get enough to live on for a while when he sold a trailer, that was all he cared about. They were all on wheels; he maintained them himself and never seemed to have trouble selling them.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Unless, you are lucky enough to just die in your sleep and never wake up..or it happens to be instantaneous and unexpected too.


That's why I said that 'most' of us leave the world with pain, though no one really knows for sure that just because one dies in his/her sleep, that such person did not suffer any pain. I'm not a true believer in instant & painless death [for we even suffer in our dreams].

Anyway, I was just trying to add a point to what you said. I could add a 2nd one & a 3rd one, LOL, but I don't want to get too philosophical.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Anyway, I was just trying to add a point to what you said.* I could add a 2nd one & a 3rd one, LOL, *but I don't want to get too philosophical.


Oh go ahead T.G...I think you are just waiting for an invitation.:biggrin:

BTW...today I found out..there is no such thing as painless dentistry..especially when getting a tooth pulled. Halfway through this ordeal, I just wanted to
tell them.."oh just shoot me!" Dentist couldn't manage to extract part of a molar root, so he referred me to another dental surgeon for tomorrow..where if I'm lucky..
maybe.I won't have to sit through another hour of sheer torture...talk about "grinding MY gears!':distress:


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

My idea of the perfect house is a tent ... with at 10,000 SF garage/workshop. Unfortunately I have a 1600 SF house, and 1300 SF shop. 

I wish I still had my 1000 SF bungalow back in Ottawa, the building that is, not the location. After 25 years, I had everything fixed, nothing was a FU, unlike the current abode.

The saying I like around the boat guys is "buy the biggest boat you can afford to maintain, not the biggest boat you can afford to buy". The former is likely 1/3 the cost of the latter in many cases. I think this logic applies to many objects of desire.

hboy43


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> 1. Oh go ahead T.G...I think you are just waiting for an invitation.:biggrin:
> 2.BTW...today I found out..there is no such thing as painless dentistry..


1. Nope, not waiting for any invitation; some thoughts are personal.

2. I told ya; no painless death and no schmerzlos dentistry either [except for polishing]. :frown: 

Seriously, I'm sorry for the suffering yesterday & hope today's oral surgeon will do a good semi-painless job. Let us know.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> *Carverman: * BTW...today I found out..there is no such thing as painless dentistry..


... just hearing the "D" word makes me go OUCH, feeling pain .... not going there.



> *TO.Gal: *hope today's oral surgeon will do a good semi-painless job.


 ... agree too.

Slightly off topic ... This Sunday November 4th is back to Daylight's Savings Time for us Ontarians - wind the clock BACK 1 hour!!! :encouragement:


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Slightly off topic ... This Sunday November 4th is back to Daylight's Savings Time for us Ontarians - wind the clock BACK 1 hour!!! :encouragement:


Haha Beaver I think that happens to the rest of Canada too :biggrin:


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Young&Ambitious said:


> Haha Beaver I think that happens to the rest of Canada too :biggrin:


Not Saskatchewan! http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/daylight-saving-time/canada/saskatchewan/


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

You beat me MoneyGal.

I was going to say that wikipedia is your closest friend [when in doubt].


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

My sister lives in Saskatoon and I can never fricking figure out what time it is there when I phone her. :stupid:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> My sister lives in Saskatoon and I can never fricking figure out what time it is there when I phone her.


You think that's bad...consider the people living in Idaho, which is split between Mountain and Pacific time along the Salmon river.
Two other major states have a similar problem - Tennessee (split between Eastern and Central) and Texas (split between Central and Mountain).

You can go from one end of the town to another, and gain (or lose) 1 hour.
And in the case of some Idaho towns, that distance may literally be a mile or so.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> I won't have to sit through another hour of sheer torture....


I see the torture is over. :encouragement:


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> My sister lives in Saskatoon and I can never fricking figure out what time it is there when I phone her. :stupid:


Mountain time in the summer, central time in the winter. Most tv shows and sporting events are eastern time, so we have to determine whether that's a 1 hour or 2 hour difference depending on what time of year it is. PITA!

On the other hand, I never have to adjust my alarm clock for DST.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> My sister lives in Saskatoon and I can never fricking figure out what time it is there when I phone her. :stupid:


Just google "what time is it in saskatoon".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Young&Ambitious said:


> Haha Beaver I think that happens to the rest of Canada too :biggrin:


:biggrin:


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> :biggrin:


Haha I stand corrected. You learn something new every day eh? :hopelessness:


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> And in the case of some Idaho towns, that distance may literally be a mile or so.


That would be fantastic. Imagine you are trying to rush to the bank or something, miss it narrowly, then drive 2 minutes to the next open bank.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Too funny.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> I see the torture is over. :encouragement:


No it's not! Got an appt with a dental surgeon on Monday. He gave me an estimate..totally blew me away!!!

Although this time it should be painless at least, when they put me "under" (the pain threshold in my brain to "sleep") ,
(it will be almost like working on a cadaver for him :biggrin 

with 4 units of IV anesthesia at $400.
final root extraction $325
Consultation fee $70
and $100 to the intial dentist for xray and consultation that works out to an expensive tooth extraction $895..well so far!

*and that is just the preliminary costs.*


Then for an implant.
Reconstruction of the bone around the tooth (bone graft) $500

If I opt for a implant to replace that molar..
$400 for anesthesia again
implant and abutment Stage 1 $2000
Total cost (if I decided to proceed with the implant) $3625.....but wait..that's not all...

further appts to select a new tooth... $$$ to fit on the implant titanium post

I guess at $4,000+ for an implant tooth, I am contributing to paying off his Mercedes and vacation villa :biggrin:


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## GOB (Feb 15, 2011)

I own stock in a few banks, so I own many, many homes! Nobody believes me though


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GOB said:


> I own stock in a few banks, so I own many, many homes! *Nobody believes me though*


Laugh! It's more like the banks own you.:friendly_wink:


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Not really as I'm completely debt free & avoid as many unnecessary fees as possible, so now I own the banks & 'many homes' [not so sure about GOB though]. 

Sorry about the costly & painful dentistry. I told ya that nothing is painless; being put under is awful, albeit just for a second or two, but a bit longer when you'll wake up. :frown:

Good luck on Monday!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

In Mexico, we stick to the old DST rules so just got through one week and have another 3 weeks in April.

But our dentists are painless!


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

agreed, there needs to be a balance... need to enjoy life because you never know



Hawkdog said:


> what do you define as waste? I have this fight with myself all the time. I don't want to be the richest guy in the graveyard. a person can get hit by a bus on any given day, to some extent you have to live life, there has to be moderation - I don't want to save every penny for retirement cause when i am retired i won't have the energy to do what i can now, but on the other hand i don't want to go to the food bank when I am retired. So I set a saving goal for each month after that if i want to spend the rest on something i do. The pay yourself first principle and everything in moderation.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> I guess at $4,000+ for an implant tooth


_Los Algodones_ http://www.dentistsofalgodones.com/

A few years back, a friend of mine, then living in Olympia, Washington, said that it would be cheaper for him to fly down here, have a mini vacation while getting his teeth done, (quality work), than it would have been for him to get the work done locally.


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