# The Costco debate



## Elbyron

Anyone who's had a Costco membership is probably familiar with the dreaded moment at the checkout when you find out how much you just spent . Many people have told me that their annual grocery costs actually goes up after joining Costco, and I've heard many arguments in favor of and against this wholesale giant. I'd like to know what others think, but to get things started I'll list a few of the frequently argued points:

Pros
- Buying in bulk is almost always cheaper (on a per-unit basis)
- Lower prices on big-ticket items
- Wide variety of products in one place
- Unique items that cannot be found elsewhere (especially in the frozen foods section)

Cons
- Many people end up buying way more than they need, either resulting in eating too much or food being thrown out 
- The crowds and line-ups. They never seem to have enough cashiers!
- Poor customer service. I don't think you can phone them, and you'll never find anyone to help you find something or retrieve more stock. However, they never give you a hassle about returning things, provided you wait in the long line at the service desk.
- Membership cost - though I find that the $50 or $55 per year is relatively insignificant
- Buying bulk means you need a lot of pantry and/or freezer space
- Cannot use your VISA or Mastercard (to get points or cashback), unless you use it to pre-purchase cash cards on costco.ca, but then you won't get extended warranty or purchase protection. Of course there is the option of getting a Costco Amex, if you want to carry around yet another credit card.

Are there any other pros and cons to shopping at Costco? 
Which points are most important to you? 
Do you feel that a Costco membership is a good way to save money?



By the way, did you know that you don't need a Costco membership to shop at the Costco liquor stores (which have by far the best prices on booze)? Unfortunately very few Costco stores have an attached liquor store, at least in my city. For any other Edmontonians out there; the only one is the Sherwood Park location.

I also read that Costco members can buy the cash cards for their non-member friends to use. There's a 5% fee for the non-member to use it online at costco.ca, but I'm not sure if this fee also applies in the stores.


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## ethos1

Had a costco card about 10-years ago, held it for one year then dumped it & do not have a costco card now

Since there is only the two of us we do not see the need to shop at costco for grocery items, which based on weekly flyer specials I can shop way cheaper than going to Costco

A friend of mine has a card & we were in the NW Toronto location at noon this past Tuesday - what a zoo

As to your question in the OP, my response is that its not cheap, the membership fee IMO should be free since they sell everything in bulk anyway & buying bulk could create more waste which means a higher cost.

I suppose for large familes as well as restaurant owners costco may be seen as wholesale pricing


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## CanadianCapitalist

I talked about why I think a Costco membership is worth it in this post that elicited a lot of interesting comments. For us, Costco is still worth it because:

(1) We buy mostly groceries there. Toothpaste, Toothbrush, olive oil, milk, spinach and so on.

(2) I drop by on weekdays on the way from work. There is hardly any lineup and the store is practically empty.

(3) You could end up spending so much more at Costco; it is bad news for anyone trying to cut down costs.

(4) It is important to make sure that buying in bulk doesn't result in wastage. 

*Is a Costco membership worth it?*


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## Sampson

My wife an I don't actually suffer from 'buy-too-much-itis' that seems common place at Costco.

I think part of the reason is because we are VERY price sensitive, with mental notes of what bargain prices actually are (e.g. $0.25 per roll of brand name toilet paper, vine-ripen tomatoes at $0.79/lb etc.).

Bulk does save you money, when compared to regular price elsewhere, but sales at Loblaws chains etc are always better than Costco.

Pros: 
1 - meat is always top quality - they only carry AAA-graded beef. We're at Costco every week during BBQ season - wait, we do this year round 
2 - manufacturer's coupons - lots of last year clear-out stuff going for very cheap ($500-off computers, etc.)

Cons: line-ups (in Montana, they have self-check outs, but the waits there are always just as long)

We don't view Costco as a place to save money, but just another alternative to shop... and eat hot dogs. 

Here's a cheap-skates Costco tip: 
Cheapest root-beer floats around - buy 1 ice cream cone ($1.99), buy one fountain drink ($0.79) - mix, and top up the pop if you need to.


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## Elbyron

Sampson said:


> Bulk does save you money, when compared to regular price elsewhere, but sales at Loblaws chains etc are always better than Costco.


I agree, it's usually best to watch for sales, but there's a lot of food items that just never seem to go on sale, such as baking goods. Even though there's only two of us, we can still save a lot of money at Costco as long as we're smart about it. I saved $500 vs competitor's sale prices by buying my plasma TV at Costco, using one of their coupons.



> meat is always top quality - they only carry AAA-graded beef.


Interesting. Never really tried it since I get most of my meat through custom orders at a Sobey's meat department (where I also get AAA beef).



> We don't view Costco as a place to save money, but just another alternative to shop... and eat hot dogs.


Yeah, I should have listed the hot dogs in the "pros". The only thing better than their taste is their price (you get a huge dog and a pop for $2).


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## CanadianCapitalist

Sampson said:


> Bulk does save you money, when compared to regular price elsewhere, but sales at Loblaws chains etc are always better than Costco.


At least in the Ottawa area, I've found that Costco has the lowest prices. Especially with the coupons they send out in the mail or give out in the store. Then again, I shop at a Loblaws store and it is possible the Real Canadian Superstore has lower prices. It's too far a drive, so I haven't checked it out so far.


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## lb71

Costco tends to put their low margin items in the back, forcing you to wander through the high margin merchandise to get there. This has caused me on many occassions to buy stuff I didn't plan on buying. Lately I have been forcing myself to ignore anything not on my list.

The quality of Costco goods tends to be good and at lower prices than elsewhere. (You may find cheaper products, but usually not of the same quality.) 

The meats are great. Even the fish. As a new parent I find the deals on huggies to be fantastic (when on sale, you can get a box of ~200 diapers for $35).

Based on the fact that they scan your card on every purchase, they must have a wealth of knowledge of your spending habits. Anyone know how they use it?


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## michika

I find it actually helped us cut down some of our household spending. Then again, I'm a firm believer in having a list. I found it was helpful to buy things we go through a lot of, toilet paper, dried fruits and vegetables, bread, granola bars, etc. I also find the price to be significantly better consistently on juice, cereal, and milk. 

One of the other reasons we shop there, about once a month, is because of some of the foods they offer are hard to find. I can find a bag of gluten, milk, casin, and egg free pretzles (yay for dietary restrictions!), for $3-4, vs. the healthfood stores (the only other places to buy this from around here) I'm easily looking at $8-$12 for the same bag.


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## splitmind

We exclusively buy our meat there. Slightly better on price, but much higher quality than any of the grocery stores. Peoples biggest complaints with Costco seem to source from their own lack of will power. Personally if that helps Costco's bottom line and keep what I need down in price I have no complaints. Consumer reports recently ran a short comparison of Costco to Wall Mart with Costco having done much better.


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## FrugalTrader

Elbyron said:


> I also read that Costco members can buy the cash cards for their non-member friends to use. There's a 5% fee for the non-member to use it online at costco.ca, but I'm not sure if this fee also applies in the stores.


Great post Elbyron, it rings true with me. I'm a big fan of costco but usually only use it to buy clothing, chicken ($6.99!) or sometimes a book. If we buy fruit or other bulk food, we simply eat it faster. 

Oh, i just called Costco about the gift card thing for non-members. The answer is yes, non members can use a gift card instore without the surcharge.


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## ethos1

do you believe that this discussion would have been better using the now defunct Sams Club as a comparison to Costco?

Walmart IMO is smart & smart enough not to have the club stores along with all of the running costs, also maybe knowing the recession was about to hit or in matching or beating Costco's best price for item at Walmarts regular stores by adding the grocery section


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## Mintycake

I think it's really easy to overspend at Costco. So many things look so great, and the samples! mmm! My mom has a membership and on rare occasions I'll go with her, but I prefer to walk to my local Loblaws and just buy what I need. When there are sales at Loblaws and I combine it with coupons, I get a good deal.


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## moneygardener

Oh boy, my Costco obsession is well documented...

http://themoneygardener.com/2007/10/costco.html

http://themoneygardener.com/2008/05/costco-enigma.html

I would be confident debating anyone on this.....

This is the best retailer ever, period!


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## nick24

Membership is $55. A 4l bag of milk is generally $1 cheaper than in regular stores. We go thru a bag each week. So the cost of membership is almost covered by the amount we save. Throw in other items and we end up saving money. 
Not everything is cheaper than the big box stores or supermarkets. I was in the market for an LCD TV at new year and ended up purchasing it at Sears. Chicken always seems to be expensive too. 
You are right, however, in saying that it is very easy to spend big bucks. It's not uncommon to drive away with a receipt for over $100 in my pocket!


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## Brad911

moneygardener said:


> Oh boy, my Costco obsession is well documented...


He's an addict...trust me!! 



> This is the best retailer ever, period!


Ever?....I'll say the best retailer currently and they *don't compete on price* because of a brilliant business model


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## lb71

Brad must be very modest since he did not mention his excellent review of Costco.


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## Brad911

lb71 said:


> Brad must be very modest since he did not mention his excellent review of Costco.


Meh...I can't link to everything I've written about that's relevant to discussions on this forum. MG was the motivating factor behind that analysis which I think surprised a lot of people once they realized how brilliant Costco's business model really is.

There are very few businesses that can operate on this cashflow system which makes barriers to entry very difficult (see Sam Club's success in Canada). Add in a membership program that encourages loyalty and very well positioned locations and its easy to see how they are the best retailer.

I missed purchasing the stock recently under $38, but it remains on my watchlist.

I look at this as a classic "Buffett" investment and something he wouldn't hesitate to invest heavily in if there were ever any problems. Trades at too rich of a valuation I suspect for him, but if he had the opportunity I think you could expect him to take it.


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## CanadianCapitalist

Brad911 said:


> I think surprised a lot of people once they realized how brilliant Costco's business model really is.


I'm not surprised at all that Costco is a brilliant retailer. I mean how many mass retailers are there who can show Wal-Mart, a thing or two? And if I recall correctly, Charlie Munger, Buffett's partner is on the Costco board of directors.

That said, I have no idea if Costco is a good investment and if so at what price


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## Sampson

In addition to the great business model (which I absolutely agree, is amazing), Costco has an advantage highlighted by this thread - customers who are fanatics. 

Similar to the 'brand loyalty' displayed by Apple users - I think this is why they started allowing non-members to use the gift cards.

Don't you remember when you were a naive, Costco-virgin. When people talked about it, it irked my interest, 'what's this Costco place all about'


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## CanadianCapitalist

Sampson said:


> In addition to the great business model (which I absolutely agree, is amazing), Costco has an advantage highlighted by this thread - customers who are fanatics.


And that too fanatics among a bunch of (excuse me saying so, I count myself as one of the members) folks who are probably much thriftier than average and who would save rather than spend. Can you imagine how fanatic Costco's regular customers would be?


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## Sampson

CC, I see them everytime I'm there . (I also pit myself into the fanatical crowd)

I'm the guy carrying 3 items, at the back of a lineup of 15 families - each with 2 loaded carts


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## Canadian Finance

Costco may be my one non-frugal weakness in that I do occasionally buy something I didn't necessarily need. But at the same time I save a lot of money on food, clothes and other household items... in most cases the non-food items can be about half the price of other stores.

As far as the membership cost, if you spend enough, going with the executive membership is worthwhile. Just yesterday I paid my $105 annual membership at the store with the $103 (so close) rebate cheque they sent me.

I wrote about the executive membership in more detail last month:

*Costco Wholesale Executive Membership*


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## moneygardener

A few nuggets I learned recently about Costco that just adds to their appeal,

1. If you use your Costco AMEX for purchases you do not need a receipt to return anything. They just look on the card and see that you bought it and credit your card.

2. Executive members get sent special coupon books that offer coupons on the real 'staple' items. These are great and we've used too many to count over the past few years on essentials.

3. The website offers free delivery on most items and order times are usually less than stated.


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## lb71

moneygardener said:


> 3. The website offers free delivery on most items and order times are usually less than stated.


The website prices also tend to be higher than the store price.


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## MoneyGal

I'm *not* a Costco fan, but it doesn't have anything to do with their biz model, their prices, or ... anything except I like to shop frequently and locally, and Costco doesn't fit with that. (And actually, I don't like shopping very much in general, and I find it annoying to have to walk through all the non-grocery merch to get to the groceries.) 

Also, I have a small house, and I don't like storing large quantities of anything. I gave up my chest freezer a few years ago - Freecyled it!

When my MIL is in town I sometimes go with her, because she's one of those Costco "fanatics" mentioned upthread. And she gave her son (my husband) a Costco gift card for his birthday in December, and we're still working our way through the enormous box of dishwasher detergent we got then.


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## ethos1

MoneyGal said:


> I'm *not* a Costco fan, but it doesn't have anything to do with their biz model, their prices, or ... anything except I like to shop frequently and locally, and Costco doesn't fit with that. (And actually, I don't like shopping very much in general, and I find it annoying to have to walk through all the non-grocery merch to get to the groceries.)
> 
> Also, I have a small house, and I don't like storing large quantities of anything. I gave up my chest freezer a few years ago - Freecyled it!
> 
> When my MIL is in town I sometimes go with her, because she's one of those Costco "fanatics" mentioned upthread. And she gave her son (my husband) a Costco gift card for his birthday in December, and we're still working our way through the enormous box of dishwasher detergent we got then.


MG, I really do like the way that u post with acronyms

"merch & MIL" and as for "freecycle" is that a motorized version of it


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## Potato

My parents have been Costco fanatics from back when it was called Price Club... I got a membership as a gift when I moved out on my own but found I was barely making $50 in savings through the year as a single guy (a combination of not wanting to bulk up so much on perishables, the location not being very convenient, and being good about taking advantage of sales at regular grocery chains), so I haven't renewed the membership. 

However, I can definitely see the appeal for anyone with a family.


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## Maltese

I've had a Costco membership for many years and although I'm on my own have bought some great items. Non-food items are usually good quality and better priced than other stores. I live within walking distance of a Costco so I view it not only as a place to shop but also as a place to walk to and browse. The samples are a bonus.

Last fall I bought 4 Michelin winter tires at a better price than other places. However, the whole experience was frustrating. My tires had to ordered and when they arrived they were sold to someone else. Then they had to be reordered. They also sold my rims to someone else and didn't have anymore of my size once the tires arrived. To top it off they wouldn't make appointments for installing the tires. Customers had to stand in line before door opening to get a number. Once all the appointment times were given out for the day the others were out of luck.

Now it's spring and I'd hoped that they'd be taking appointments to get the winters taken off and the radials put back on. No!!! I've been told I have to line up again and am not a happy camper. Plus they still don't have any rims in stock as they only get them in the fall. I've bought tires here before and never had any of these problems. But, it seems things have changed and I'll think twice about buying tires from Costco again.

Maltese


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## Rickson9

My wife and I don't shop at Costco. We see no benefit.



Maltese said:


> Last fall I bought 4 Michelin winter tires at a better price than other places. However, the whole experience was frustrating. My tires had to ordered and when they arrived they were sold to someone else. Then they had to be reordered. They also sold my rims to someone else and didn't have anymore of my size once the tires arrived. To top it off they wouldn't make appointments for installing the tires. Customers had to stand in line before door opening to get a number. Once all the appointment times were given out for the day the others were out of luck.


If we did shop at Costco, the aforementioned incident would make us stop shopping at Costco.

Garbage service is not worth a minor savings.


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## canabiz

Rickson9 said:


> My wife and I don't shop at Costco. *We see no benefit.*
> 
> 
> 
> If we did shop at Costco, the aforementioned incident would make us stop shopping at Costco.
> 
> Garbage service is not worth a minor savings.


You will, when you have kids.


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## lb71

Rickson9 said:


> If we did shop at Costco, the aforementioned incident would make us stop shopping at Costco.
> 
> Garbage service is not worth a minor savings.


The above incident is unique to the tire centre. 

The rest of the store is pretty straight forward. What you see is what you get. There is no one around to help, but you rarely need assistance in the sotre. There is no back room with more stuff. Everything is out in the open. No corn flakes on the shelf this week? Then they don't have any, even though you bought a box last week and there were two skids of it. Check out lines move pretty fast too.

But I agree if you ever need help with anything, good luck with that.


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## CanadianCapitalist

Rickson9 said:


> If we did shop at Costco, the aforementioned incident would make us stop shopping at Costco.
> 
> Garbage service is not worth a minor savings.


Costco's Tire and Oil change services always have a line up. There is a very good reason why customers are choosing to line up at 8:00 AM on a Saturday morning. Their oil change rates are very low.

I've bought tires there are couldn't get appointment for months. There is a simple solution: buy the tires, get the discount for not getting it installed with them and take it to your mechanic. Same goes for oil change. Buy the motor oil at Costco and take it to your mechanic. That's what I do.


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## Rickson9

canabiz said:


> You will, when you have kids.


Doubtful. We would probably rather trade minor savings for more time with our child.


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## canabiz

Rickson9 said:


> Doubtful. We would probably rather trade minor savings for more time with our child.


You can bring your kid to Costco with you, same as when you shop at other spots.

Another good thing about Costco is it carries items that are not widely available anywhere else.


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## banman

Got the executive membership and probably shop there every week for groceries if for nothing else (near my house). Excellent value for books, clothes, bulk items such as diapers, and when things go on sale. Admittedly I probably spend more in total than if I was never a Costco member. Sometimes they have certain household items or furniture for a week or two only never to come back in stock again. It trains you to buy first and ask questions later. Not a good habit but I have got some of the best deals on quality items that you could never find anywhere else. Plus their very liberal return policy takes the risk out of it. But it is important to remember that they do not have the best price on everything. You have to be disciplined to shop there as it is easy to go in for a bag of milk and come out spending $600.


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## Rickson9

canabiz said:


> You can bring your kid to Costco with you, same as when you shop at other spots.


As I mentioned before, 'garbage service is not worth a minor savings' - with or without a child.



canabiz said:


> Another good thing about Costco is it carries items that are not widely available anywhere else.


Such as?

My wife and I haven't been sold on the benefits that Costco offers?


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## canabiz

Rickson9 said:


> As I mentioned before, 'garbage service is not worth a minor savings' - with or without a child.
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> My wife and I haven't been sold on the benefits that Costco offers?


Take a walk in Costco (you don't need membership card to look at things), then go to your regular grocery stores and come back here and tell us if you see any differences.


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## HealthyToronto

*If you are into healthy eating, no*

If you are into healthy eating, Costco is the last place you want to shop for food.

Most of their fruits and vegetables are imported outside Canada and lots from Mexico and South America - the last places you want to buy food from because of all of the amount of carbon spewed into the atmosphere flying this food here, the chemicals they spray on their food (especially when no one is looking) is not something you want to ingest. In the spring summer and fall Toronto, Canada has so many great farmers markets (like, real farmers not vendors who buy their produce at the Food Terminal and place it on crates to make it look like they are farmers). 

Also there are few organic items at Costco. Their Earthbound products (mostly lettuce) are one exception.

As for beef, pork and chicken, I am mostly a vegetarian and rarely eat them and when I do I buy my meat from Cumbraes or The Healthy Butcher so that I can get grass fed (not this corn/grain fed slop that they feed animals along with the antibiotics required so that they are able to digest them - cows were never fed this stuff before, only in the last 40-50 years or so, as it is not natural for them. Plus I don't need the growth hormones and steroids that they are also fed). As for sausages, hot dogs and bacon, they are the last thing you want to eat if you don't want to get heart disease, etc.

As for fish, most of their fish is farmed fish, which is fed dyes, antibiotics and food that they don't normally eat. If you want to see what you are actually eating when you eat farmed fish (especially Atlantic Salmon and shrimp) read Bottom Feeder by Taras Grescoe. You will never eat them again unless they are wild.

I like sardines (a great source of EPA and DHA Omega-3 fatty acids and the fish never get big enough to have much mercury or other chemicals in them), but Costco only carries the lower quality of the Millionaires brand, not the top-quality 'brisling' species, which only costs about 10% more. 

The carry no canned goods that are not lined with Bisphenol-A, which countries around the world, including Canada are banning in baby bottles because of the harmful effects of this chemical on the human body and are moving towards attempting to ban them in other products (although it is not sure if this will be successful as it costs 2-3c more per can to make a bisphenol-A free can and manufacturers are resisting as for them profits are more important than health)

Most of their drinks are glucose-laden liquid sugar type drinks, so I've only bought the sparkling mineral water there which is a good price.

Anyway, I've also found their prices on HDTV's to always be beaten by sales elsewhere. Also, many of their larger HDTV's (Panasonics 50" versions) are slightly stripped down versions of regular Panasonic HDTV's that only Costco sells, so getting them even at the same price as a regular one bought somewhere else isn't a deal.

So, for me, someone who only buys mostly organic fresh fruits and vegetables and no processed foods, the only things I buy there anymore are the mostly the dry goods such as contact lens solution, vitamin D pills, sparkling mineral water, Eco Laundry detergent, the odd reference book, toilet paper, dove soap (stay away from their shampoos as they are full of cancer causing phalates) and their Earthbound produce.

If you want to be healthier (maybe you don't which is fine), and want to eat healthy, then read What To Eat by Marion Nestle, The Omnivore's Dilemma, by Michael Pollan and Anti Cancer, by David Servan-Schrieber, Bottom Feeder by Taras Grescoe. These are all NYTimes bestsellers and will change your eating habits forever. 

Remember, after not doing silly stuff like smoking and taking drugs, the only two things you can change about your health are diet and exercise, since your genes have already been picked for you. If you do shop at Costco at least buy only their fresh produce and stay away from most of their processed foods.

I'll likely be not renewing my membership again.


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## Rickson9

Good to know. My wife and I are modest health nuts (ie YMCA 2-3 times a week + 5k jogging 2-3 times a week, whole foods, veggies, fruits, no canned goods etc.) and we rarely need 50kg of chicken for two people at the moment.



HealthyToronto said:


> If you are into healthy eating, Costco is the last place you want to shop for food.
> 
> Most of their fruits and vegetables are imported outside Canada and lots from Mexico and South America - the last places you want to buy food from because of all of the amount of carbon spewed into the atmosphere flying this food here, the chemicals they spray on their food (especially when no one is looking) is not something you want to ingest. In the spring summer and fall Toronto, Canada has so many great farmers markets (like, real farmers not vendors who buy their produce at the Food Terminal and place it on crates to make it look like they are farmers).
> 
> Also there are few organic items at Costco. Their Earthbound products (mostly lettuce) are one exception.
> 
> As for beef, pork and chicken, I am mostly a vegetarian and rarely eat them and when I do I buy my meat from Cumbraes or The Healthy Butcher so that I can get grass fed (not this corn/grain fed slop that they feed animals along with the antibiotics required so that they are able to digest them - cows were never fed this stuff before, only in the last 40-50 years or so, as it is not natural for them. Plus I don't need the growth hormones and steroids that they are also fed). As for sausages, hot dogs and bacon, they are the last thing you want to eat if you don't want to get heart disease, etc.
> 
> As for fish, most of their fish is farmed fish, which is fed dyes, antibiotics and food that they don't normally eat. If you want to see what you are actually eating when you eat farmed fish (especially Atlantic Salmon and shrimp) read Bottom Feeder by Taras Grescoe. You will never eat them again unless they are wild.
> 
> I like sardines (a great source of EPA and DHA Omega-3 fatty acids and the fish never get big enough to have much mercury or other chemicals in them), but Costco only carries the lower quality of the Millionaires brand, not the top-quality 'brisling' species, which only costs about 10% more.
> 
> The carry no canned goods that are not lined with Bisphenol-A, which countries around the world, including Canada are banning in baby bottles because of the harmful effects of this chemical on the human body and are moving towards attempting to ban them in other products (although it is not sure if this will be successful as it costs 2-3c more per can to make a bisphenol-A free can and manufacturers are resisting as for them profits are more important than health)
> 
> Most of their drinks are glucose-laden liquid sugar type drinks, so I've only bought the sparkling mineral water there which is a good price.
> 
> Anyway, I've also found their prices on HDTV's to always be beaten by sales elsewhere. Also, many of their larger HDTV's (Panasonics 50" versions) are slightly stripped down versions of regular Panasonic HDTV's that only Costco sells, so getting them even at the same price as a regular one bought somewhere else isn't a deal.
> 
> So, for me, someone who only buys mostly organic fresh fruits and vegetables and no processed foods, the only things I buy there anymore are the mostly the dry goods such as contact lens solution, vitamin D pills, sparkling mineral water, Eco Laundry detergent, the odd reference book, toilet paper, dove soap (stay away from their shampoos as they are full of cancer causing phalates) and their Earthbound produce.
> 
> If you want to be healthier (maybe you don't which is fine), and want to eat healthy, then read What To Eat by Marion Nestle, The Omnivore's Dilemma, by Michael Pollan and Anti Cancer, by David Servan-Schrieber, Bottom Feeder by Taras Grescoe. These are all NYTimes bestsellers and will change your eating habits forever.
> 
> Remember, after not doing silly stuff like smoking and taking drugs, the only two things you can change about your health are diet and exercise, since your genes have already been picked for you. If you do shop at Costco at least buy only their fresh produce and stay away from most of their processed foods.
> 
> I'll likely be not renewing my membership again.


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## canabiz

My toaster recently stopped working so I spent a bit of time doing research and comparing prices and I ended up buying a Cuisinart 4-slice stainless steel toaster from Costco for $45.99 + tax = $53. This is after $12 instant rebate. 

This is the best price that I could find for such a model, I went to 6 different retailers (Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart, Home Outfitters, Home Sense, Zellers and Rona) and none of them could beat this price. As an FYI, A 2-slice Cuisinart toaster at Home Outfitters is retailing for $89.99 and you wonder why the Bay is in trouble.

Loss leader ? perhaps...but in this day and age where everyone is trying his or her best to stretch the dollars, I am glad to take whatever savings I can...


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## Antonia

HealthyToronto said:


> If you are into healthy eating, Costco is the last place you want to shop for food.
> 
> Most of their fruits and vegetables are imported outside Canada and lots from Mexico and South America - the last places you want to buy food from because of all of the amount of carbon spewed into the atmosphere flying this food here, the chemicals they spray on their food (especially when no one is looking) is not something you want to ingest. In the spring summer and fall Toronto, Canada has so many great farmers markets (like, real farmers not vendors who buy their produce at the Food Terminal and place it on crates to make it look like they are farmers).
> 
> Also there are few organic items at Costco. Their Earthbound products (mostly lettuce) are one exception.
> 
> As for beef, pork and chicken, I am mostly a vegetarian and rarely eat them and when I do I buy my meat from Cumbraes or The Healthy Butcher so that I can get grass fed (not this corn/grain fed slop that they feed animals along with the antibiotics required so that they are able to digest them - cows were never fed this stuff before, only in the last 40-50 years or so, as it is not natural for them. Plus I don't need the growth hormones and steroids that they are also fed). As for sausages, hot dogs and bacon, they are the last thing you want to eat if you don't want to get heart disease, etc.
> 
> As for fish, most of their fish is farmed fish, which is fed dyes, antibiotics and food that they don't normally eat. If you want to see what you are actually eating when you eat farmed fish (especially Atlantic Salmon and shrimp) read Bottom Feeder by Taras Grescoe. You will never eat them again unless they are wild.
> 
> I like sardines (a great source of EPA and DHA Omega-3 fatty acids and the fish never get big enough to have much mercury or other chemicals in them), but Costco only carries the lower quality of the Millionaires brand, not the top-quality 'brisling' species, which only costs about 10% more.
> 
> The carry no canned goods that are not lined with Bisphenol-A, which countries around the world, including Canada are banning in baby bottles because of the harmful effects of this chemical on the human body and are moving towards attempting to ban them in other products (although it is not sure if this will be successful as it costs 2-3c more per can to make a bisphenol-A free can and manufacturers are resisting as for them profits are more important than health)
> 
> Most of their drinks are glucose-laden liquid sugar type drinks, so I've only bought the sparkling mineral water there which is a good price.
> 
> Anyway, I've also found their prices on HDTV's to always be beaten by sales elsewhere. Also, many of their larger HDTV's (Panasonics 50" versions) are slightly stripped down versions of regular Panasonic HDTV's that only Costco sells, so getting them even at the same price as a regular one bought somewhere else isn't a deal.
> 
> So, for me, someone who only buys mostly organic fresh fruits and vegetables and no processed foods, the only things I buy there anymore are the mostly the dry goods such as contact lens solution, vitamin D pills, sparkling mineral water, Eco Laundry detergent, the odd reference book, toilet paper, dove soap (stay away from their shampoos as they are full of cancer causing phalates) and their Earthbound produce.
> 
> If you want to be healthier (maybe you don't which is fine), and want to eat healthy, then read What To Eat by Marion Nestle, The Omnivore's Dilemma, by Michael Pollan and Anti Cancer, by David Servan-Schrieber, Bottom Feeder by Taras Grescoe. These are all NYTimes bestsellers and will change your eating habits forever.
> 
> Remember, after not doing silly stuff like smoking and taking drugs, the only two things you can change about your health are diet and exercise, since your genes have already been picked for you. If you do shop at Costco at least buy only their fresh produce and stay away from most of their processed foods.
> 
> I'll likely be not renewing my membership again.



Couldn't agree more. I don't buy food at Costco. I do, however, buy my socks, dishwasher detergent (a HUGE saving), Vitamin C 1000mg, 81 mg ASA, Ziplocks, household cleaners, soap, toothpaste, paper towel, aluminum foil, plastic wrap, teabags, Aqua Libra and similar items there. I don't buy TP there as it is always a loss leader at the local drug store and supermarkets, and I get the brand our family prefers: Purex. I once bought up 10 Bob Mackie Barbies at $55 CD each at Costco and sold them for between $350 and $800 US on eBay 

...and where do I buy my food? At Whole Paycheque of course, and blow all my Costco savings. 

Rosina
Fifties Schmifties


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## lb71

HealthyToronto said:


> Also there are few organic items at Costco. Their Earthbound products (mostly lettuce) are one exception.


They have a variety of organic cereal (Nature's Vally, Jordan's).


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## moneygardener

You can absolutely shop for food at Costco and eat healthy. I do it every day!

Most of the points raised upthread are all disputable and have no root in actual fact. Food attributes mentioned as negative are debatable and food attributes mentioned as positives have not been proven. (ie organic food is healthier for you than non-organic food). If you believe this without hesitation, you are just feeding the marketing machine.


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## Spidey

My family probably spends about 75% of our store shopping at Costco. Jeans for $14.00; running shoes for $30; flat screen TVS, gardening supplies, milk, cheese, eggs all at good prices. We use their American express which usually gives us an annual rebate cheque of $250 and our membership rebate provides us an additional cheque of about the same amount. So that's about $500 in rebates in addition to good prices.

One of the things I like is that returns are relatively hassle free. I've been surprised by what they will take back - even CDs that I had opened and found that I didn't like the quality of the music (original artists but not original recordings).

The only things we tend to buy at other places are fruit and vegetables and some of our meat.


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## Maltese

I've totally given up on the tire department. I finally got an appointment to change from winter to summer tires at a Costco at the other side of the city. (I live within 5 minutes of one that refuses to make appointments - makes you stand in line to get a number. Once all the numbers for the day are gone you're out of luck and have to stand in line again the next day.) I dragged my summer tires to work, then went to my 6 PM appointment in the pouring rain only to be told they were running 1 1/2 hours behind. 

This wasn't enough time to go home and let the dogs out and get back so had to cancel the appointment and was pissed. The next morning I got on the phone and got an appointment at Fountain Tire for yesterday. For $50 more I got to make an appointment, sit for an hour reading the newspaper and was on my way. No frustration. I'm typically frugal but I was so frustrated with Costco's tire service that I couldn't take it anymore. I'm a little poorer today but happy that I finally got the darn winter tires taken off.


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## byronbb

I buy frozen vegetables, cubed meat, cans of mushrooms/beans/chilli, 2.4kg bricks of cheddar, granola bars, oatmeal etc etc. Shopping at Costco like you are at Safeway is going to be expensive (I know Safeway isn't cheap but Costco = volume = $$$$$). I use Costco to gain value against Safeway where I can and in bulk, and use Safeway for all the staples like milk, eggs, bread and so forth.


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## brad

moneygardener said:


> Most of the points raised upthread are all disputable and have no root in actual fact. Food attributes mentioned as negative are debatable and food attributes mentioned as positives have not been proven. (ie organic food is healthier for you than non-organic food). If you believe this without hesitation, you are just feeding the marketing machine.


I agree that there is no clear evidence that organic food is healthier for you, or that the pesticide residues on conventionally raised produce pose a signfiicant health risk to adults. Intuitively it makes sense that you'd want to avoid pesticide residues but the evidence for their risk is equivocal. However, if you have young kids you should bear in mind that their risks are higher than those of adults. Pound for pound, children eat more than adults, and they may be exposed more heavily to some pesticides because their diet is different than that of adults. In particular, children tend to eat more apples, corn, oranges, rice, and wheat than adults do, and many of those foods contain pesticide residues. 

Setting the health risks aside, though, there are other reasons to choose organic and/or local foods when you can. Here are just two:

1) The carbon footprint of locally produced foods is generally (though not always) lower. Exceptions are things like hothouse tomatoes, which are incredibly energy-intensive. A field-grown tomato harvested in Italy and shipped to Canada may actually have a lower carbon footprint than a hothouse tomato raised during the winter in Quebec or Ontario and shipped locally. But in general, if you care about the risk of climate change and want to help reduce emissions, buying local is a good idea.

2) Organic agriculture usually has a lower environmental impact than conventional agriculture. This is debatable as well, though, because new techniques such as low-till or no-till agriculture (which involves selective use of pesticides and herbicides but no tilling) results in significant energy and carbon emission savings. But in terms of agricultural runoff, air pollution, and ecological impacts, organic is a good choice.

For these reasons alone I tend to choose to buy organic or local produce when I can, although I'm not overly strict about it. I'm lucky enough to live just a few kilometers from the largest outdoor greenmarket in North America (Jean-Talon market in Montréal), and the quality and choice of produce there is so far beyond anything I'd find at Costco that for me it's no contest. But I like to cook from scratch and can't even remember the last time I bought a prepackaged meal; it might have bee in the early 1990s. I even make most of our own bread!


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## canadianbanks

I shop regularly at Costco and I have no complaints about customer service or the quality of items sold there. However the Canadian Costco stores are really expensive compared to US ones for example, but this is valid for almost anything when comparing US and Canada


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## martinv

Wow! It seems to be a love it or hate it thing!
Well, happy to say, "my wife and I like it a lot!"
Today they opened the gas bar, saved 8 cents per litre.
Picked up a prescription, the dispensing fee is $4.49
Picked up our 200 digital photo prints at 10 cents per print (special).
We have always found the staff to be helpful with checking for items out of stock, returns etc.

So no real complaints here.

Almost forgot, big ice cream cone on the way out!
free parking as well.


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## Alexandra

I find that you have to go there with a small list of items that you need and that will produce savings when bought in bulk. I mainly use Costco to buy things like paper towels, toilet paper, kleenex, etc., and also large boxes of things that get eaten in bulk in my household - like cereal.

If you stick to the list of things you intended to buy, there will be no nasty surprises at the cash. When you stray from the list you end up with the impulse buys that end up costing you.


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## canabiz

Question to the board: Is it unethical to ask another family member who has Costco membership card to buy things on your behalf? 

Essentially, you enjoy the benefits that Costco offers, without forking out the annual fee. 

Or you don't see any problem if your folks (or brothers/sisters) ask you to pick up a few items for them while you are out and about at Costco?


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## Rickson9

canabiz said:


> Question to the board: Is it unethical to ask another family member who has Costco membership card to buy things on your behalf?
> 
> Essentially, you enjoy the benefits that Costco offers, without forking out the annual fee.
> 
> Or you don't see any problem if your folks (or brothers/sisters) ask you to pick up a few items for them while you are out and about at Costco?


I would thank my family members if they allowed me to do this and end up getting them a gift for their troubles. This will probably be similar to the annual fee anyway. So it comes out in the wash.

If you're talking about a one-sided benefit (ie they do the work and you don't pay the annual fee), I'm not really into doing that to my family (unless I really hated them I suppose).


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## canabiz

Rickson9 said:


> I would thank my family members if they allowed me to do this and end up getting them a gift for their troubles. This will probably be similar to the annual fee anyway. So it comes out in the wash.
> 
> If you're talking about a one-sided benefit (ie they do the work and you don't pay the annual fee), I'm not really into doing that to my family (unless I really hated them I suppose).


Say you have a Costco membership card and you know your brother (with his 2 or 3 kids) are struggling to make ends meet...you grab one of those BBQ chicken for $6.99 at Costco for yourself ($8.99 or more outside at Loblaws or other shops) and at the back of your mind, you think about your nephews/nieces...do you have any problem grabbing another chicken and give it to your brother and the kids? 

Technically speaking (and in an ideal world), he does not have a Costco membership so he has no rights to enjoy the benefits that come with one but we don't live in an ideal world...


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## Rickson9

canabiz said:


> Say you have a Costco membership card and you know your brother (with his 2 or 3 kids) are struggling to make ends meet...you grab one of those BBQ chicken for $6.99 at Costco for yourself ($8.99 or more outside at Loblaws or other shops) and at the back of your mind, you think about your nephews/nieces...do you have any problem grabbing another chicken and give it to your brother and the kids?


No, because that would be my decision. I didn't impose it on a family member.



canabiz said:


> Technically speaking (and in an ideal world), he does not have a Costco membership so he has no rights to enjoy the benefits that come with one but we don't live in an ideal world...


The scenario is different bewteen my deciding to pick something up and my deciding to ask a family member to do something for me. Your original question was 'ask another family member'.


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## Spidey

canabiz said:


> Question to the board: Is it unethical to ask another family member who has Costco membership card to buy things on your behalf?
> 
> Essentially, you enjoy the benefits that Costco offers, without forking out the annual fee.
> 
> Or you don't see any problem if your folks (or brothers/sisters) ask you to pick up a few items for them while you are out and about at Costco?


Costco openly allows this practice and I do it all the time. I often bring a family member with me and they will gladly do a subtotal on the bill of the family members purchases.


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## canabiz

Spidey said:


> Costco openly allows this practice and I do it all the time. I often bring a family member with me and they will gladly do a subtotal on the bill of the family members purchases.


Good to know Spidey, guess I won't feel any more guilty next time I decide to pick up some BBQ chickens for some family members, be it my own decisions or their requests


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## Rickson9

One of my wife's coworkers says he avoids the annual fee at Costco by simply going to guest services, buying a Costco gift certificate and then spending it - no membership required.


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## Elbyron

Rickson9 said:


> One of my wife's coworkers says he avoids the annual fee at Costco by simply going to guest services, buying a Costco gift certificate and then spending it - no membership required.


I don't believe it. The rule is that you have to show your membership card in order to purchase or refill a gift card. Furthermore, in order for a non-member to use the gift card, they are directed to the service desk to obtain a temporary shopping card; a piece of paper to be presented to the cashier in lieu of the membership card. Thus, even if the service rep forgot to ask to see your membership card when purchasing the gift card, you wouldn't be able to just ask them to immediately give you a temporary pass to use it.


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## takingprofits

Just joined Costco. Was a member many years ago but at the time with no kids did not see much benefit. In those days you actually needed to be professional or a business person to join - so the idea that membership was "exclusive" made sense.

This time around, I found that all one needs is to be a member is to be alive and have a driver's license. So being a member of an "exclusive" club is a bit of a joke. 

A bigger joke is the way people are carded on the way in, hassled at the checkouts if the name on your credit card is sightly different than on your membership card, and how every cart is checked on the way out (a few feet after leaving the checkout) to make sure all items were paid for. 

Not really an enjoyable shopping experience. Sometimes saving money just isn't worth the hassle.


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## Dr_V

My wife and I received a Costco membership as a wedding present several years ago. We tried our best to enjoy the membership, but ultimately, we didn't bother renewing. I think that we came to the following conclusions:


(1) Our nearest Costco store wasn't really that close. This sounds minor, but it was a real nuisance to spend ~45 minutes round-trip to get to Costco versus ~5 minutes round-trip to get to a Food Basics, Sobey's, Shopper's Drugmart, Canadian Tire, or Walmart.

(2) I would say that the average price at Costco was less than the average price at a typical grocery store ... but we tend to buy groceries and other items that are on sale or for which there are coupons available, so after we factored in the cost of the Costco membership, we weren't really convinced that we were saving much. (The amount that we saved was often offset by the fact that we tended to buy more than we needed.)

(3) We liked the selection and products at Costco. There are a few things that they carried which were really good.

I would say that, if Costco opened up a store closer to my home, I may reconsider getting a membership. But as it stands, it's not sufficiently convenient to justify the potential (if any) savings.


K.


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## Berubeland

i used to work at Costco believe it or not delivering and setting up displays for Supreme Pierogies. They would let me buy stuff there without a membership before the store opened.

The prices there did not impress me much. Some were cheaper and others were much higher. The point being that like with Wal Mart's loss leader's you have to be very careful.

My husband does the shopping and I do not expect him to save money. He tries but he's really not very cheap once he finds a brand he likes he'll buy it no matter how expensive it gets. He's just stuck. He currently goes to the Superstore. It has decent prices. It has pretty good prices on kids clothes too which is nice if you need socks or something. 

What really offends me though and prevents me from becoming a member is that they charge you to buy their stuff and that is utterly immoral IMHO.


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## Sampson

Berubeland said:


> What really offends me though and prevents me from becoming a member is that they charge you to buy their stuff and that is utterly immoral IMHO.


I don't think this model is immoral. Its like a co-op, but for-profit - there are benefits to joining, the 'cash-back' on in-store purchases, and rebate on gasoline alone easily cover my membership fees plus much more. You also obviously have a choice to join or not.

I do agree with you that there is a misconception that things there are cheap because they are 'bulk'. Sale items at Superstore and Walmart can be by-far less expensive than Costco.


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## takingprofits

In my area Superstore/Extra Foods offers 12 to 14 cent per litre (depending on store) Superbucks redeemable for the groceries I am going to buy anyway. That exceeds the discount I saw offered when at Costco yesterday. 

On a percentage basis 14 cents a litre is very attractive to me - plus the locations are very handy compared to Costco.


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## Sampson

takingprofits said:


> In my area Superstore/Extra Foods offers 12 to 14 cent per litre


That's is an awesome deal.

At most, Superstore in Calgary only ever gave 7 cents off. This plus the 1% back on the PC Financial MasterCard was what I used to do. Then for some reason, their superbuck rebate was reduced, so now Costco gets my business (they have 7 cents off, plus I get 1.5% cash back).

Actually, only one of the Costco's in Calgary even has a gas station, just happens to be convenient for me


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## RLMT

i like costco, but i dont understand why they pay somone to check my card on the way in.

first of all, no way i can buy anything anyhow with out a card at checkout, so what are they protecting?

the math doesnt make sense.

say the store is open 15 hours a day x 7 days a week. they would need at least 2 FTE per day to check cards, say even at a rate of $15/hr (i think they pay more even, certainly with benefits).

15 x 7 x 2 x 15 x 52 weeks = ~$165,000 per store just to check cards?

doesnt make sense to me, so why do they pay millions of dollars a year for it?


oh, Costco has the BEST lunch deal in town. $2 for a hotdog and drink? bring it!


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## Dana

The savings on contact lenses alone more than covers the cost of our membership. We have the Costco Amex Cash Rebate Card. We use it wherever we can (where AMEX is accepted) and get a $500 cheque in January! This year we also got a $70 cheque from Costco in July. Apparently it represented a % of our Costco Spending from January - June. We weren't aware of that benefit, so it was a nice surprise and paid for a snowsuit for one of the kids. 

We live very close to a Costo though, so it is convenient for us to shop there once a month.


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## Ashish

I used costco in US for 2 years.For 3 of us quantity was more than required but other benefits I noted:

1)I was executive memebr ,so they offered 2% cash back,I got 25$ back & I paid $100,so it costed me $75
2)it provided Identity guard at $7.5 per month(market price $13 per month),so for 2 of us it saved $11 per month,so for a year 12 x 11=$132 I saved
3)Electronics has 2 years warranty (if you use American express, 3 years ) at no extra cost

However these benefits I saw in US ,I am new to Canada.has anyone noted these benefirs here too?


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## Elbyron

RLMT said:


> i like costco, but i dont understand why they pay somone to check my card on the way in.
> 
> first of all, no way i can buy anything anyhow with out a card at checkout, so what are they protecting?


I always assumed this check was for your own good - to make sure you actually have your card with you before you waste an hour or more shopping around. I'm sure they have an ulterior motive for having this employee, but I'm not sure what it is. If they were just trying to prevent shoplifting, they could combine the entrance & exit into one opening so nobody can sneak out with a cart full of unpaid merchandise.


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## lb71

Ashish said:


> I used costco in US for 2 years.For 3 of us quantity was more than required but other benefits I noted:
> 
> 1)I was executive memebr ,so they offered 2% cash back,I got 25$ back & I paid $100,so it costed me $75
> 2)it provided Identity guard at $7.5 per month(market price $13 per month),so for 2 of us it saved $11 per month,so for a year 12 x 11=$132 I saved
> 3)Electronics has 2 years warranty (if you use American express, 3 years ) at no extra cost
> 
> However these benefits I saw in US ,I am new to Canada.has anyone noted these benefirs here too?


1 and 3 are available here (although I don't know about the extra year of warranty with Amex). I have not seen anything about #2. Unless you require the extra services available with executive membership, you would be better offer with the basic membership rate of $50.


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## lb71

I went into the tire centre at my local Costco on the weekend for the first time ever, and tucked into a corner was this caged booth. Thinking it has something to do with tires, I went over to ask a question and was shocked to discover it was a tobacco store (cartons only).  I never knew about this shop and there is no advertisements for it. A strange location for it too. I'm not a smoker, but have a general idea of prices and the prices were very good. Too bad they don't sell liquor like they do in the States.


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## Sampson

Some stores in Canada do. At least one of the new ones in Calgary does, also has the gas shop.

I buy booze from Costco in the US often, and some of the pricing for imported (non-North American) wines isn't actually as divergent as most booze prices are.

Re: booze prices at Costco Canada, they are generally good, on par with Superstore/Loblaws, and the selection/variety of red wines is quite good.


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## lb71

Unfortunately in Ontario the government has a monopoly on liquor sales so it won't be available in Costco here anytime soon.


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## mrbizi

Membership to Costco imho is a double-edged sword. If you have a lot of self-control and are a smart shopper you should come out ahead. On the other hand, if you are a freewheeling shopper - membership to the store will cost way more than $50/year. That said, i would say the majority of the members in this forum probably belong to the first group and should benefit from shopping there.

Me, I buy there products that my family consumes a lot - paper towels, table napkins, toilet paper, tissue boxes, coffee beans. Like others I find the quality of their steak to be very good - even better than what I used to buy at a local butcher and better than what the big grocery stores sell (Sobey's etc.)


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## Dana

I just cashed my annual Costco rebate cheque for $481.79. This more than covers my $100 membership fee - They also send me another cheque in July for about $70 (it represents a percentage of my Costco spending year-to-date). 

I happen to live very close to a Costco warehouse, so it is convenient for me to shop there. I go once a month. I wear contact lenses, so the money I save on those over my previous supplier is more than 1/2. They also have very cheap drug dispensing fees at their pharmacy.


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## bean438

I only buy fish oil capsules from Costco so a membership is kind of silly. I go with my parents to load up.
I do have an expired membership that I use to get inside the door so I can eat some cheap hotdogs and pizza.
When I did shop there the key was to not get a cart.
Go there for a reason, and carry it to the till by hand. You are way less tempted to impulse buy because you have to carry it.


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## lb71

Dana said:


> I just cashed my annual Costco rebate cheque for $481.79. This more than covers my $100 membership fee - They also send me another cheque in July for about $70 (it represents a percentage of my Costco spending year-to-date).


Yikes! So you spent $24k over the past year at Costco? I'm a Costco fan and can't imagine spending that kind of money there.


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## Dana

lb71 said:


> Yikes! So you spent $24k over the past year at Costco? I'm a Costco fan and can't imagine spending that kind of money there.


Actually, we spent under $2k at Costco last year. 

We have the Amex Costco Cashback card and we funnel all of our household spending through it to maximize the cash back feature. Since $500 is the maximum rebate amount, we spend on the AMEX until we have maxed that rebate (my math was a little off this year as our cheque was for just under $500) and then we switch our spending to another cash back card and get as much of that rebate as we can. We also use the the other cash back card for instances where AMEX is not accepted. 

We 'earn' over $700 per year in cashback rebates so this pretty much covers our Christmas expenses.


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## kyahgirl

I'm a fan of costco for a couple of reasons:

1) The savings on glasses more than pays for my executive membership bill. I paid about $600-$800 for glasses with high index, coated lenses at the optometrist's off and at costco they are $300-$400. They use the same high quality glass.

2) we use our costco AMEX for as much as we can so we get a big rebate from costco and a bigger rebate from AMEX every year.

3) you have to have discipline but you can save money when you stick to things like kids clothes, non perishible consumables, vitamins and other health supplements, cheese, milk, etc. Their meat is very good. 

4) To be a good consumer you have to be aware of what everything costs in most of the stores. Costco doesn't have the best deals on everything. 
Unfortunately, for groceries, we shop at Sobeys, Extra foods, Safeway, and costco...each vendor having their own niche. 

5) downside: their tire department totally sucks! not doing that again.


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## Murlev

*We quit Costco on a matter of principle!*

We cancelled our membership 2 days ago because Costco refuses to post English signs at their Montreal, Canada warehouses. Being only 2 of us we could not buy the necessary volume to really save. Our daughters in Ottawa can pick up the few items that we like to have around when they go. The following blog explains the sign problem. We fail to see why the Costco near us does not have the courtesy of posting English signs when stats show that 50% of the region's population arr English speaking while only 20% are French speaking. http://anglosigns.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/is-something-rotten-at-costco/


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## new dog

I hate Costco with a capital H. The place is a complete nightmare. I tried to go there yesterday and the parking lot was a zoo. After swearing and yelling to get out of there I decided it isn't worth it and will not sign up again or go back.

Most people love traffic, crowds and waiting but I hate it.


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## Mukhang pera

new dog said:


> I hate Costco with a capital H. The place is a complete nightmare. I tried to go there yesterday and the parking lot was a zoo. After swearing and yelling to get out of there I decided it isn't worth it and will not sign up again or go back.
> 
> Most people love traffic, crowds and waiting but I hate it.


Try the Costco in Courtenay, BC. We go about once a month or so. Never seen it packed. The parking lot is never more than half full. Even close to the propane filling station, which is close to the main doors, one can almost always get a parking spot right away. We usually park by the propane station and fill a tank or two, since the propane cost there is about 1/3 of anywhere else.


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## new dog

I live Richmond BC and it probably has the busiest Costco in North America. Also Richmond has a population that loves crowds and endless waiting.


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## Mukhang pera

That explains it. I worked at an office in Richmond from 2004 - 2008. I lived in Vancouver. Crossing the Oak St. bridge every morning and evening was a pain. Traffic in Richmond itself was a headache then; probably worse now. I liked it more in the 70s when I was just out of university and looking to buy my first house. Lots of small farms and houses for sale for $50,000.


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## ian

We are Costco customers. Store and on line. It is more about what we have not purchased from Costco. Tires, batteries, prescription glasses, prescriptions, jewelry food, meat, produce, furnaces, furniture, travel products, clothing, shoes, tools, OTC, etc. List goes on and on. Plus gas, propane, and wine/beer.

We know prices and only buy when it is to our advantage.


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## milhouse

Costco's definitely a zoo during certain times but the Richmond one more so. It's probably our least favourite in the area. We try to avoid the weekends and go after work on a weeknight. One exception, we went to one during the superbowl and it pretty quiet.


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## ian

The first Costco in Canada came to Burnaby. They took over the former Woodward's Furniture Fare location. The company that I worked for at the time supplied the POS system. Early/mid eighties.


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## CalgaryPotato

new dog said:


> I live Richmond BC and it probably has the busiest Costco in North America. Also Richmond has a population that loves crowds and endless waiting.


Ha, the Calgary Deerfoot Meadows location would probably care to differ. And I've been to that Richmond one many times.


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## Eder

CalgaryPotato said:


> Ha, the Calgary Deerfoot Meadows location would probably care to differ. And I've been to that Richmond one many times.


I second this....cars idling in line for an hour to save a few cents gassing up...no parking spaces at 11am on a Tuesday, etc. Honestly....wtf.
Best Costco (least gong show) is in Redcliff AB and Cabo Baja Sur.


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## kcowan

We have used Costco in Burnaby and downtown, and also in Poway CA and PV MX. It has its place in each case. We find that once a month is plenty. We do not have an extra freezer, preferring to shop fresh. When we approach our transition from MX to Cda, we cut back and use up stuff in our bottom freezer.

In West Vancouver, we have 3 grocery stores within walking distance plus 2 Persian markets so we tend to shop locally. So it is paper products from Costco. And sometimes Pace Salsa.


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## Zipper

Eder said:


> I second this....cars idling in line for an hour to save a few cents gassing up...no parking spaces at 11am on a Tuesday, etc. Honestly....wtf.
> Best Costco (least gong show) is in Redcliff AB and Cabo Baja Sur.


With one way pumps and long hoses, 2 in each lane, 10+ lanes, credit card only, the line looks long but hopefully scares you away. Even at the busiest of busy I'm under 10 and usually under 5 here in London North.

We are getting a new store and pumps down at the south end next year.

On any given day Costco is the lowest of anyone by at least 5 cents, and usually 10 cents on average.

By waiting til evening the differential is much less but still significant.


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## dotnet_nerd

Same here, there's a new Costco at QEW/Fifty Rd. Prices are usually 9~10 cents cheaper.

The pumps open at 6:30 am and there is usually little or no wait if you arrive before the store opens. Or late evening.


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## nobleea

CalgaryPotato said:


> Ha, the Calgary Deerfoot Meadows location would probably care to differ. And I've been to that Richmond one many times.


The busiest one in the world is in Seoul. The busiest one in North America I believe is one in Oahu. Busiest one in Canada is not clear but seems to be one of the ones in Calgary, or there's two in Edmonton that regularly get mentioned (149st or 91st). In actual articles, not comments. Usually measured in sales per warehouse. It's different if you measure by visitors, or $/SF.


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## andrewf

dotnet_nerd said:


> Same here, there's a new Costco at QEW/Fifty Rd. Prices are usually 9~10 cents cheaper.
> 
> The pumps open at 6:30 am and there is usually little or no wait if you arrive before the store opens. Or late evening.


The mobil at Superstore is usually not that far off, and you get 4 cents per liter with the PC mastercard back in points. For instance, current spread is 6.7 cents or 2.7 cents if you account for the points. It is up to you to determine whether it is worth $1/tank to go to the hassle of Costco. Their hours are bad and are horribly busy during the day.


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## ian

We find Costco gas hours reasonable. We are never willing to wait for long so we tend to go during hours when the store is closed, ie earlier in the morning. I think that many members do not realize how early the gas bars open. Failing that, in Calgary, we go to CooP..especially in the winter. They have full serve. Last year our rebates totaled 8 cents a litre. It often works out better than the Costco price.


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## Mukhang pera

andrewf said:


> The mobil at Superstore is usually not that far off, and you get 4 cents per liter with the PC mastercard back in points. For instance, current spread is 6.7 cents or 2.7 cents if you account for the points. It is up to you to determine whether it is worth $1/tank to go to the hassle of Costco. Their hours are bad and are horribly busy during the day.


At the Superstores in BC (at least the few we visit), the PC mastercard gets 7 cents per liter in points. We find with that 7 cents/liter discount, the Superstore gas bar price works out to about the same as the Costco price. Usually they are within about a cent per liter of each other - one week, the Costco price might be cheaper by about a penny per liter; next week, the Superstore has a slight edge. For us, the drawing card is the Costco propane, which is usually half the price or better than the price anywhere else. Our propane purchases pay for our executive membership.


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## doctrine

Costco: where you pay for the savings with your time, inconvenience, and mental and perhaps even physical health, unless you happen to be lucky enough to live near a very rare non-busy Costco or are retired/non-working/flexible hours and don't have to go with the working class. For the vast majority of experiences, it is hell on earth justified by savings that could probably be had in other ways. Time is also worth something, as is mental health. This audience on the forum is also not nearly indicative of the average experience at Costco.


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## Eder

But absolutely the Costco return policy will keep me as a customer forever...(and also their Kirkland Malbec)


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> The mobil at Superstore is usually not that far off, and you get 4 cents per liter with the PC mastercard back in points. For instance, current spread is 6.7 cents or 2.7 cents if you account for the points. It is up to you to determine whether it is worth $1/tank to go to the hassle of Costco. Their hours are bad and are horribly busy during the day.


Also consider, according to the internet which is never wrong , that Costco has top tier fuel where as Superstore is likely the cheap stuff.


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## andrewf

lol top tier fuel. It all comes from the same refinery!


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## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> lol top tier fuel. It all comes from the same refinery!


What's you're point? Refineries make a number of grades of different products. Refineries make heating oil, jet fuel diesel and auto gas, they're not interchangable.

Ice cream factories spit out a large number of flavours, all with the same equipment too.


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## ian

The time before when DW got here eyeglasses from Costco Optical the gentleman that served her told he two things. The first was he just sold his store, retired, and was working part time at Costco. The second was that IF she had purchased the same frame and the same prescription at his store (just before he sold it) she would have paid almost about double for the same glasses.

My daughter in Ft. Mac. has a number of her prescriptions filled by Costco in Edmonton and mailed (they provide this service) to Ft. Mac. Cost is half what she pays in Ft. Mac. When you are buying $300-$400. a month that savings really adds up.

Fortunately we can go anytime so we avoid the busy periods. Plus we use costo.com.


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## andrewf

Gas is a commodity, not ice cream. The only differentiators out of a given refinery is octane (standard blends), and additives (detergents) and perhaps ethanol content. I would be shocked if there is any meaningful different between brands.


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> The only differentiators out of a given refinery is octane (standard blends), and additives (detergents) and perhaps ethanol content. I would be shocked if there is any meaningful different between brands.


Just a thought ... maybe research it a bit to see if the additives are useful?
If you're just tossing your vehicles away after a few years you likely won't care though ....


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## ian

I think that the only difference is PRICE.


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## andrewf

cainvest said:


> Just a thought ... maybe research it a bit to see if the additives are useful?
> If you're just tossing your vehicles away after a few years you likely won't care though ....


By all means, provide independent evidence that there is meaningful differences between commercial fuels brands.


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## AltaRed

I doubt there are meaningful, measurable differences. Differences in additives is mostly marketing among the major brands although there could be marginal performance differences. I don't know if the true independents get any of the additives, I'd suggest there is not an iota of difference between Costco and Superstore.


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> By all means, provide independent evidence that there is meaningful differences between commercial fuels brands.


Try google maybe? I'm sure the evidence is still out there! 
For me its a non-issue, my costco is easy to get fuel at with no waiting so I'll take the better gas at the same price as the discount cheap fuel places.


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## andrewf

I did google! I could find nothing resembling evidence, just opinions.

Okay, here is what I found: there is a quasi-standard called Top Tier (tm) which I suppose guarantees a certain level of detergents.

Turns out virtually all the major fuel outlets are certified. That includes Costco, Esso, and yes, Mobil stations in Canada.

So, as I said: there is no difference.


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> I did google! I could find nothing resembling evidence, just opinions.


Weird, guess someone deleted it all ... just another internet conspiracy I guess.


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> Okay, here is what I found: there is a quasi-standard called Top Tier (tm) which I suppose guarantees a certain level of detergents.
> 
> Turns out virtually all the major fuel outlets are certified. That includes Costco, Esso, and yes, Mobil stations in Canada.
> 
> So, as I said: there is no difference.


And little research pays off ... good to hear Mobil has the good stuff!

Second difference: Costco premium fuel is usually 5 cents cheaper than all the others, including Mobil. Of course many don't need premium but I do use it for three of my vehicles.


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## AltaRed

Just remember Esso and Mobil are the same thing.


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## andrewf

I think Mobil are owned by another group (Brookfield) but use Esso branded fuel.


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## AltaRed

The Mobil brand is 100% owned by ExxonMobil but the brand is licensed to others such as independents and in the USA to various chains. ExxonMobil has both Exxon and Mobil brands in the USA.


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## Eder

The thing is if you live west of Sarnia you are putting good Canadian fuel refined from Canadian oil....East of Sarnia all outlets serve up mostly non ethical oil from Algeria, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia,Iraq, Venezuala, and Mexico....
Ya right...no need for Energy East. Canada's dirty little secret.


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## humble_pie

Eder said:


> The thing is if you live west of Sarnia you are putting good Canadian fuel refined from Canadian oil....East of Sarnia all outlets serve up mostly non ethical oil from Algeria, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia,Iraq, Venezuala, and Mexico....
> Ya right...no need for Energy East. Canada's dirty little secret.




are you suggesting that alberta dilbit can be refined, processed & consumed in eastern canada?

countless folks keep making that mistake. The issue has been gone over & gone over in cmf forum hundreds of times.

once again: alberta. dilbit. cannot. be. refined. in. canada. it. has. to. be. exported.

there are no refineries in canada big enough or modern enough to process dilbit into crude. The nearest such big refineries are in texas. A few in california. The biggest & the most modern are in asia, hence the workability of a re-built expanded transMountain pipeline.

if energy east had been constructed, it would have piped alberta dilbit to saint John NB. From there the heavy substance would have been shipped unprocessed, in tankers, to texas gulf. 

eastern canada has no choice but to import oil. Mostly by pipelines from NE US of A. Sure the sources could be venezuela, nigeria, libya. This is the way it's been since WW II. There are far more serious issues on the planet.

.


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## AltaRed

The Energy East issue for me was the hypocrisy of Montreal's objection. They get most of their oil either by the Portland pipeline or by tanker, from offshore of course. But that initiative is gone. Shareholders will only put up with such crap, and bleeding cash, for so long.


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## Eder

humble_pie said:


> are you suggesting that alberta dilbit can be refined, processed & consumed in eastern canada?
> 
> countless folks keep making that mistake. The issue has been gone over & gone over in cmf forum hundreds of times.
> 
> once again: alberta. dilbit. cannot. be. refined. in. canada. it. has. to. be. exported.
> 
> there are no refineries in canada big enough or modern enough to process dilbit into crude. The nearest such big refineries are in texas. A few in california. The biggest & the most modern are in asia, hence the workability of a re-built expanded transMountain pipeline.
> 
> if energy east had been constructed, it would have piped alberta dilbit to saint John NB. From there the heavy substance would have been shipped unprocessed, in tankers, to texas gulf.
> 
> eastern canada has no choice but to import oil. Mostly by pipelines from NE US of A. Sure the sources could be venezuela, nigeria, libya. This is the way it's been since WW II. There are far more serious issues on the planet.
> 
> .


The above is incorrect and typical eastern apathy. I wont elaborate ...


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## humble_pie

Eder said:


> The above is incorrect and typical eastern apathy. I wont elaborate ...




the above is bang-on correct. It comes straight from the cmf posts of a lifetime multinational oil executive, now retired. There are dozens - hundreds - of his posts discussing the capacities of the various Irving refineries in new brunswick, the various refineries in montreal east, etc. 

the conclusion is always the same. Existing canadian refineries cannot handle dilbit. The substance has to be exported to the appropriate refineries. These are located in other countries. 

so please do elaborate. Otherwise we shall have to conclude that you are blowing hot air.

btw elizabeth may shares the same quaint views. Somehow - heaven knows how - she really believes that alberta dilbit can be refined in canada as easily as whipping up a kitchen blender smoothie, then sold cheaply in eastern canada in a move that will lower the cost of living, benefit all citizens & permanently establish the sublime righteousness of western canada.

.


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## WGZ

AltaRed said:


> Just remember Esso and Mobil are the same thing.


One of my vehicles uses premium and I find Mobil to be much cheaper. Esso seems to be price gouging in my area...I've been going to Esso religiously until I noticed the ones near me now consistently have a 0.21 per liter difference between regular and premium ... and their premium is terrible. I understand Petro, Husky, and Shell having that difference - but two of those offer 94 for that price, and Shell has the great 91 or 93 V Power with zero ethanol.

Using Costco fuel saves me $10 per week and there's a 10 cent difference between 87 and 91 grades. It saves me more than the value of any points I would've collected on my fuel expenditure.

Too bad Mobil doesn't accept my AMEX - but I can collect Optimum points. What really gets to me is Costco doesn't accept my Visa or AMEX ... I can't collect any points there. Oh well, Esso Extra points are pretty worthless for how long it takes me to get enough for even $20 free gas reward.


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## Eder

sorry I wont get into this with you...google is your friend.






oh....one more thing....2m b/d conventional and upgraded oil....wtf would we use that for? Let the stoning continue.


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## cainvest

WGZ said:


> Using Costco fuel saves me $10 per week and there's a 10 cent difference between 87 and 91 grades. It saves me more than the value of any points I would've collected on my fuel expenditure.
> 
> Too bad Mobil doesn't accept my AMEX - but I can collect Optimum points. What really gets to me is Costco doesn't accept my Visa or AMEX ... I can't collect any points there. Oh well, Esso Extra points are pretty worthless for how long it takes me to get enough for even $20 free gas reward.


The Costco mastercard gives you another 2% cash back on fuel.


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## new dog

Had to show you guys this as an example of what we put up with in Richmond BC. This is a picture of the line of people who attended the opening of the new T & T supermarket in Richmond. Of course this might have been a good day to go to Costco since they are all at the new T & T store. These crazy people should probably do the math and had gone to work instead even at minimum wage then go through that hell. 

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/opening-canadas-largest-t-t-supermarket-richmond-2018

I should mention the first so many people would get a 10 dollar gift card.


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## Eder

Wow what a crowd. I thought to buy some shares if possible but it turns out their parent company is Loblaws...too bad. Guess I'll have to contin ue to wait till Trader Joes goes public.


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## andrewf

^Trader Joe's is a banner of Aldi Nord. Not likely to go public.


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## new dog

Well at least we know Loblaws has what seems to be a good asset.


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## Eder

andrewf said:


> ^Trader Joe's is a banner of Aldi Nord. Not likely to go public.


Ya I know but I would jump at the chance to buy Trader Joes or In&Out stock...they are both bellwethers as to how retail should be done.


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## skiwest

Just some comments where your incorrect



humble_pie said:


> are you suggesting that alberta dilbit can be refined, processed & consumed in eastern canada? -_* yes some refineries in Eastern Canada can process dibit , see http://refineryreport.org/refineries-list.php that has Sarnia Suncor at 100%, any refinery if they want to produce some asphalt in summer could take dilbit but granted that is not a lot
> *_
> countless folks keep making that mistake. The issue has been gone over & gone over in cmf forum hundreds of times.
> 
> once again: alberta. dilbit. cannot. be. refined. in. canada. it. has. to. be. exported.- *Not correct there are refineries in edmonton that take dilbit, also the some of the upgraders produce diesel*
> 
> there are no refineries in canada big enough or modern enough to process dilbit into crude. The nearest such big refineries are in texas. A few in california. The biggest & the most modern are in asia, hence the workability of a re-built expanded transMountain pipeline. *not correct there are lots in midwest that take dilbit , BP Whiting spent 10 billion several years ago to take dilbit, Exxon Joliet most of the big users are in the midwest, *
> 
> if energy east had been constructed, it would have piped alberta dilbit to saint John NB. From there the heavy substance would have been shipped unprocessed, in tankers, to texas gulf. *true until they put in coking or cracking process units in like BP whiting did*
> 
> eastern canada has no choice but to import oil. Mostly by pipelines from NE US of A. Sure the sources could be venezuela, nigeria, libya. This is the way it's been since WW II. There are far more serious issues on the planet. *But energy east could supply the eastern refineries with conventional Canadian crude , syn crude or even light bakken crude from US, remember the rail exposions were tankers filled with US bakken going to saint John
> *
> .


*see inserted comments*


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