# Quebec Relevé-18



## tekcap

Hello,

I'm having trouble filling in the Relevé-18 section in Studio Tax.

Here is an image of the Relevé-18 http://golabo.com/new/wp-content/uploads/Relevé-18-mod.jpg

Here is the boxes I need to fill in Studio Tax http://golabo.com/new/wp-content/uploads/stax18.jpg

Could someone help me with this please? I got a T3 and a Relevé-16 as well, but those were easy to fill in.


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## OptsyEagle

Your T5008 has box numbers at the top of each column. Just put in the values or security identifications for boxes 14,16,17,20,& 21 in the corresponding Studio Tax boxes. You have 11 funds on the T5008 so enter everything for the 1st fund on RL(18)1 and the next fund in RL(18)2, etc. Where you see the persons finger pointing click on the arrow to the right and you will get an RL(18)3 and click it again and you will get an RL(18)4, etc until you have entered all 11 funds.

A little tedious but that is how you do it. 

I have a T5008 slip that added up every column at the bottom, so I just entered the totals for boxes 20 and 21 and called the job done. I send in a paper return so they will have the T5008 if they want clarification for each transaction. You could do the same but would need to add up those two columns (box 20 and box 21).


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## scorpion_ca

This will be the first time I will have to submit T5008 and I will be using Studio Tax. I am glad to know that I will have to fill in based on securities in T5008. How does this affect ACB? If I just fill in based on T5008, Why I need to calculate ACB? I have used http://adjustedcostbase.ca/ to calculate ACB and where do I fill in those ACB info?


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## OptsyEagle

I am not sure exactly what you are asking. You enter your ACB in box 20 of Studio Tax. The T5008 should give you a value for Box 20 but it may or may not be correct. If it is correct then use it. If your records indicate differently, you are allowed to adjust it. I think it says something to that effect on the T5008.


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## scorpion_ca

I am with TDW and using Studio tax to file my income tax return...when I ran the auto-fill feature last Tuesday, it didn't have any T5008 but today when I ran it again, I have received T5008 thru auto-fill feature for some of the securities. Box 20 is left blank that gave me almost heart attack when I saw that I will have to pay $3.5k to CRA whereas I was expecting a refund for $6k. In my cash account, I have ZPR, VCN and TDB8150 (HISA). 

ZPR - Purchased once but didn't sell any. Therefore, no proceeds.
VCN - Purchased three times but didn't sell any. Therefore, no proceeds.
TDB8150 (HISA) - Purchased TDB8150 multiple times last year but sold it only four times. TDW reported to CRA about the TDB8150 fund based on four proceeds but did not report for ZPR and VCN. Now here are my questions -

1) Can I report to CRA based on total costs and proceeds of each security instead of each proceeds?
2) TDW reported based on proceeds for same security. If I overwrite it in Studio Tax and submit my return based on total costs and proceeds of each security, will there be any issue?
3) If I need to report based on each proceeds for the same fund, how do I calculate costs accurately against each proceeds?
4) Box 20 - Do I need to use current ACB or Current ACB/Share amount? I think it would be current ACB. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.


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## OptsyEagle

I am not really sure what is going on in your case but suffice to say that a T5008 is really just a report of dispositions. It is not like other T-slips like a T3 or T5, where you would need to get the slip amended if it is incorrect. They are quite frequently inaccurate and because of this CRA allows you to use your own information if you have more accurate data for ACB and/or proceeds for each security. It might even say this on the T5008. 

Box 20 wants the total cost (not ACB per share) all the shares disposed of.


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## scorpion_ca

I purchased 1,000 shares of ZPR in 2015 but did not sell anything yet. As per T5008, proceeds amount is nil. I also used Statement of Trust Income Allocations and Designations from CDS Innovation Tax Breakdown and adjustedcostbase.ca website to calculate current ACB, which is showing zero (I think it's because of return of capital) even though I paid $12,989.99. So now my understanding is that I will have to fill up only box 14 (date) and 17 (security description) in the Studio Tax as the amounts in box 20 & 21 are zero. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks!


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## OptsyEagle

I have never heard of a T5008 reporting securities that were only bought but not sold. This is a new one on me so I cannot really advise. I was under the impression that a T5008 was a slip to inform you and CRA that a possible taxable disposition of securities had taken place. From what you describe, that is not the case.

As for the adjustedcostbase.ca site you mention. My best advice there is to stop using it. I know nothing about the site but unless you received a dividend equal to or greater then $12,989.99, then your ACB is definitely not zero. Putting it to zero when it is actually something higher is going to end up making you pay taxes on gains that you did not actually make.

Your ACB will be what you paid for the shares, minus any return of capital amounts recorded on box 42 (I think) on any T3 or T5 slips you received because of owning it...and it only matters when you sell it to work out your capital gain or loss.


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## scorpion_ca

I think TDW issued the T5008 because of the TDB8150 (HISA) fund. I read the following articles on Canadian Couch Potato website on how to calculate ACB -

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2014/06/27/calculating-adjusted-cost-base-a-case-study/
https://www.pwlcapital.com/pwl/medi...Bender_As-Easy-as-ACB_2013-April.pdf?ext=.pdf

ZPR distributes monthly dividend and their monthly ROC was 7.70480 per share. So, I think I don't need to report about ZPR in this income tax return.


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## Eclectic12

Where did you get the ZPR has RoC of $7.70480?

The only thing I can find on the BMO web site is the cash paid but where it should be listing the breakdown of the income, it is blank. 
Or perhaps you mean that across all your shares, the RoC is $7.70?

The BMO web site is weird as where one would expect the yearly breakdown that one sees on say the iShares or Vanguard web sites for ETFs, BMO seems to have "not available" for each year.


Then too, if it really is $7.70 a unit a month, at what looks like $9 a unit, this would mean that after about two months, the ACB would hit zero or negative so that all future RoC payments would be reported on one's tax return as a capital gain.



> For tax purposes, the important thing to know is that if your ACB does fall to zero, any subsequent distributions of ROC would be treated as capital gains. In this case, you wouldn’t deduct them from your ACB, but would *pay tax for the year the distribution was received.*


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...apital-means-to-fund-investors/article547291/



The BMO web site is weird as where one would expect the yearly breakdown that one sees on say the iShares or Vanguard web sites for ETFs, BMO seems to have "not available" for each year.



Cheers


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## scorpion_ca

I downloaded Statement of Trust Income Allocations and Designations for ZPR from CDS Innovation website. 

http://services.cds.ca/applications...tart=1&Count=3000&RestrictToCategory=All-2015 









Yes, you are absolutely right that after two months, the ACB hit zero and the capital gain amount is $7,704.80 at the end of 2015. How do I report this as a capital gains in my income tax return? I use Studio Tax. As per T50008, proceeds amount is nil.









It also does not make sense that I received only $470 as a dividend in 2015. How come they return all capital whereas I paid around $13k?


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## Eclectic12

So far, I have avoided having to pay the RoC as a CG yearly by either setting up a DRIP (which raises the ACB by the RoC amount or more) or buying more on a dip when the ACB is getting too low for my comfort.

I can't say from experience and it looks like most articles assume the RoC is going to be a small amount like XIC so I am not finding anything definitive. All I can tell you is that is that where it was close to April 30th, I would use Scheduler 3, Part 3 to record the RoC payments as a capital gain, where the entry would look like this.

Number ... whatever number held
Name ... BMO ZPR *(RoC Paid)*
Year of Acquisition ... year
Proceeds ... RoC paid where ACB is set to zero [If $100 is paid, where $10 is what zeros out the ACB then put $90.]
ACB .... zero
Outlays/Expenses .... zero
CG .... same number as proceeds


Should CRA come back to question or say this is the wrong spot ... one has documented the source as well as that one has tried to correctly report it. This should put one on a good footing if


There is time to find out so I would do the following, in this order.
1) Call BMO to ask them where to report it. Usually there is info to help investors have an idea how to report so why not leverage this to see if you can get an answer easily.

2) Call CRA to ask. I don't like this choice as it is a busy time of year so the wait times are likely not that good.


The other reason why I would put a high priority on calling BMO is that RoC being larger than the cash paid is different than any other RoC paying investment I have looked into or owned. Usually the cash paid to one's account is within the ballpark of what each type that is paid. For example, where the breakdown per unit is $0.20 RoC, $0.45 dividend and $0.10 CG then the cash paid is the sum of this (i.e. $0.75).

The situation I am aware of where the breakdown total number will be higher than what is paid is where an ETF pays a phantom distribution but this is CG driven where the RoC is less than what was paid. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...by-phantom-etf-distributions/article18225076/

The other situation is when the investment is a US company so that US withholding taxes has taken 15% of the dividends/income.


Bottom line here is that a cash payout of 4.8 cents per unit should not have a $7.70 RoC component as my experience is that whatever the RoC is, the cash payment is at least equal to the RoC. It suspect the 2015 breakdown on BMO's web site will have something less for the RoC number.


Cheers


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## OptsyEagle

You are reading the feed from CDS incorrectly. The amounts listed beside box 49 (Eligible Dividends) and box 42 (return of capital) are *percentages*, not dollar amounts.

So, in the first distribution of $0.048 per share. It is made up of 92.292520% dividends and 7.70480% return of capital.

So if you had 1000 shares, the $48 you received would result in $44.30 of dividends and return of capital of $3.70. Your ACB that was $12,989.99, is now supposed to be $12,986.29 after you received the first distribution.

You really should just wait until you get a T3 from your broker, especially since you might not have even received that first distribution in 2015. You are going about this process the most complicated way possible, but I will agree that it does make for a good learning experience.


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## Eclectic12

^^^
This makes a lot of sense.

When I use BMO's web site, it lists the 2014 breakdown in more digits than I will as $0.55 eligible dividends, $0.05 RoC with a total taxable distribution of $0.60. Note that the total taxable number is the sum of the two types of income paid. Yahoo's historical dividend numbers say $0.60 cash was paid.

The RoC works for 2014 works out to 8.3% of the distribution. Even if things have changed drastically, I don't see any way your ACB can be down to zero so quickly with such a small amount of RoC paid.


Note that it has since occurred to me that the 2015 breakdown might not have been finalised yet as I have had RioCan and I believe XIC publishing their numbers as late as mid April. When I check the iShares web site, the latest year XIC is publishing their breakdown is also 2014.


Cheers


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## Spudd

I just want to add, you don't need to fill out anything for ZPR this year since you didn't sell it. You don't need to put the date, ACB, or description. You only need to do this for things where you actually have a capital gain or loss to report.


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## scorpion_ca

Thanks everyone. I didn't know that I would be receiving T3 from the brokerage. I opened the non-registered account in 2015. Therefore, I will have to learn a lot. I glad that I didn't file my income tax return last week. Once I received T5008 from TDDI lats week, I thought that I would not receive anything. 

I downloaded Statement of Trust Income Allocations and Designations for ZPR & VCN from CDS Innovation website. Their calculation method for ZPR and VCN was percent and rate respectively, that I did not notice earlier. I will update ACB once I receive T3.

Those who have non-registered/cash account, what else do you receive other than T3 & T5008 from your brokerage?


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## Spudd

You should also receive a T5 that will tell CRA how much you received in dividends.


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## Eclectic12

The only time I receive a T5 for investment income is where the investment pays only dividends (eligible or non-eligible). For example, BCE or EXE.

For anything that pays a mix of income, I get T3s ... which are usually the last to arrive. For example, RioCan and before I transferred XIC to my TFSA.


For both these T forms, the broker rolls it all up into one, two or three forms ... depending on when the company reports to the broker and presumably, when the broker did a batch run. With each T form that has multiple company's numbers is a summary form so I can see which investments have reported what types of income. By comparing what I have/had during the year against what is listed on the summary form(s), whether there should be more coming or whether everything has been received is determined.

For example, when I held XIC in the taxable account ... it was missing from all T forms received until April. Then a T form would show up for it.


Where one holds only one or two investments ... it is likely simply.

Cheers


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## scorpion_ca

What is the meaning of "you are claiming less than the maximum federal foreign tax credit"? I have VCN in my cash account, which paid $0.04 foreign non-business income tax in 2015. If I say yes to this question, I am not allowed to submit my income tax return thru Netfile.

Here is the Netfile wizard at Studio Tax. 

The following is a list of specific situations that prevent you from filing a tax return through the NETFILE service:
- You are claiming less than the maximum federal foreign tax credit.
- a federal non-business foreign tax credit for more than three countries

Where can I find country name, where VCN paid foreign non-business tax?

Thanks in advance.


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