# KN95 masks



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Has anyone else run into these KN95 masks? There's a whole bunch available at one of my local stores, a reputable retailer.

Here's some info on them, but I'm curious what others think about these, if you've looked into them at all.

KN95 are a lot like N95 masks. The difference is that KN95 is a Chinese regulatory standard, so these masks are not suitable for Canadian healthcare use. However... as far as I can tell... they have the same filtering capability. Theoretically, they do the same thing as N95 masks.

My concern with the ones I found is that they are made in China, and I have trouble trusting Chinese regulatory quality in general. How do I know what I'm really getting?

Still, I am thinking that these KN95 masks might offer more protection than fabric masks, even if they are not as good as N95. Perhaps this is a good option when doing a really high risk activity like flying on a plane, going to a doctor, etc.

Any thoughts on these?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

And
What's the Difference Between N95 Masks and KN95 Masks?



> “The KN95 is practically equivalent to N95 in every aspect,” says Amin. “Customers seem to believe that the N95 is superior at blocking airborne particles, but the KN95 is just as good, if not better,” he insists. “Many N95 [masks] are also made in parts of China and Asia so the notion that all N95 are U.S.-created is inaccurate as well.”


----------



## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I think a true N95 has to be done with a fitment test (this is what my surgeon friend tells me), but the KN95 don't have that stipulation. This is for medical field stuff. For regular joe use, they are the same. As long as they are used as intended, which is to say disposable. Only use 4-6 hrs and then throw out.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

nobleea said:


> I think a true N95 has to be done with a fitment test (this is what my surgeon friend tells me), but the KN95 don't have that stipulation. This is for medical field stuff. For regular joe use, they are the same. As long as they are used as intended, which is to say disposable. Only use 4-6 hrs and then throw out.


Thanks. For average joe use, do you get the sense that a KN95 is superior to a fabric mask for air travel? It seems like they should be, if they are so similar to N95.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Thanks. For average joe use, do you get the sense that a KN95 is superior to a fabric mask for air travel? It seems like they should be, if they are so similar to N95.


Honestly, fabric masks are the lowest protection when compared to surgical masks and N95, so I'd have to think that the KN95 would be better. But there is also the comfort factor to consider, i.e. are you comfortable with wearing the mask throughout the flight, or likely to remove it once in a while vs wearing the fabric continuously.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Don't fly and it becomes a moot point. There were 2 more flights with Covid positve passengers reported.








Potential COVID-19 exposure on two WestJet flights from Calgary to Halifax


Nova Scotia Public Health is advising of potential exposure to COVID-19 on a pair of WestJet flights on August 24 and August 26.



atlantic.ctvnews.ca





There were 6 that landed in Toronto in the last week.








These flights touched down in Toronto carrying passengers infected with COVID-19


Planes coming from the United States, India and Greece are among some of the latest flights to land in Toronto with passengers infected with COVID-19.



toronto.ctvnews.ca





You can find lists of domestic and international flights with confirmed cases here:





COVID-19: Exposure notices from select cruise ships - Canada.ca


If you have travelled recently by cruise ship, use this Government of Canada tool to find out if you might have been exposed to COVID-19.




www.canada.ca





Neither Air Canada, Westjet or public health agencies are reaching out to passengers to advise them they may have been exposed. It is left up to the traveller to check and see if a flight they were on gets listed. Bad for business to tell you 'oops'.

But if you are going to fly James4beach, then I encourage you to wear the best mask you can find, all the time, to protect others from you.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Thanks. For average joe use, do you get the sense that a KN95 is superior to a fabric mask for air travel? It seems like they should be, if they are so similar to N95.


We got 2 KN95s for our flight home from PV in July. They were good through the airport but eventually the straps failed from removing them to drink water repeatedly on the plane. So then we had the blue masks that were similar to the American staff. They definitely felt better. I suppose they are indended for people who do not remove them. We did feel more protected until the straps broke.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The concern is about fraudulent masks that don't actually meet the standard (KN95 or N95). Either standard is fine and does the job.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

kcowan said:


> We got 2 KN95s for our flight home from PV in July. They were good through the airport but eventually the straps failed from removing them to drink water repeatedly on the plane. So then we had the blue masks that were similar to the American staff. They definitely felt better. I suppose they are indended for people who do not remove them. We did feel more protected until the straps broke.


Thanks, that's very helpful to know. That's too bad the straps failed... maybe these just aren't made to a very high standard or as andrewf said, maybe it wasn't authentic.

Glad you didn't catch COVID on your trip home. Flying is obviously still pretty dangerous. I'm not sure if you saw the research study I posted in the other thread, but in one flight which was studied, there were several infected people on board and one passenger caught COVID after his mask became loose. He was the only passenger who caught the infection during the flight.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

@james4beach

N95 and KN95 are virtually the same for non-medical staff. Being they will not be fitted, they will not be as good as it is for medical staff. Also, the KN95's I have seen in Canada cannot be fitted the same way. They will pretty much ALL be made in China since KN95 is a China standard. If they are proper KN95s it would be as good as an N95 here. I got my last KN95 batches from Costco, they have them on line every so often, but you need a membership on line now. I also had them from overseas from people I know who got them from medical suppliers in Asian countries, but that was very difficult. 

In terms of effectiveness of masks IN GENERAL. This assumes proper wearing, fit, cleaning (if applicable), and other factors are maintained (no need for LTA to go a diatribe and poke holes is specifics). 

From lowest effectiveness to higher
0. No covering - no protection for or from anyone
1a. Face shield - will prevent droplets from entering the eyes and reduce 'spray' (coughing sneezing) droplets from going out and some in, but does not stop breath droplets. Note: a shield by itself is not a substitute for a mask, but is better than nothing for those that have legitimate reasons for not wearing masks, and worn in conjunction with a masks increase protection for both wearer and others
1b. Single layer cloth- better than nothing, will reduce large droplets, but small droplet can get through and minimal or not protection for wearer. 
2a. Double+ layer cloth masks - more layers of fabric is better, minimum recommended is two 
2b. Non surgical masks - assuming they are decent ones which most are now, it's about the same as a double layer mask
3a. Double+ layer cloth with filter - adds the additional layer of protection, and if you get a PM2.5 filter it will provide a lot more protection for the user
4abc. Surgical medical masks there are 3 levels, the higher the level the more protection
4c. KN95 masks (non fitted)- They have similar filtration to level 3 I read, but at not a 100% sure why some places rank them higher
5. N95 fitted properly for use
6. Gas mask respirator type - the heavy ones you see exterminators use. My exterminator has them and the have some crazy filtrations.

This information is based on my research of masks, not just masks and the COVID virus. I am pretty well informed but not a scientist. There are exceptions. Masks with valves make it easier to breath but some valves do not have a filter going out, therefore, they offer no protection to others. I have a mask that has a 2 way filter so it's fine, but some places will not allow them (airplanes).

So to answer your question @james4beach a KN95 would offer you some more protection and filtration than most 2 ply cloth masks. I also have a cloth mask that can fit a proper KN95/N95 masks to keep the outside of the KN95 clean longer. KN95/N95 should not be cleaned with chemicals or washed. The inventor of the N95 recommended baking at a higher heat I believe.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> 6. Gas mask respirator type - the heavy ones you see exterminators use. My exterminator has them and the have some crazy filtrations.


Just a note/clarification, gas mask respirators may be good for specific chemicals, not necessarily good for viral agents. For example, it may use a charcoal filter which can be good for chlorine based chemicals, not so much for biologicals.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Plugging Along said:


> N95 and KN95 are virtually the same for non-medical staff. . . .


Thanks, great info!


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Just a note/clarification, gas mask respirators may be good for specific chemicals, not necessarily good for viral agents. For example, it may use a charcoal filter which can be good for chlorine based chemicals, not so much for biologicals.


There are variations to the information. You can get p100 filters and a variety of other different filters for different uses. I made an assumption if someone was going though the cost and effort to wear one of the gas masks, they would at least take the time to inform themselves. Again, I was providing general information. I would be that you are better protected if someone sneezes or if you do in a gas masks from the stuff getting in or out.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Plugging Along said:


> So to answer your question @james4beach a KN95 would offer you some more protection and filtration than most 2 ply cloth masks. I also have a cloth mask that can fit a proper KN95/N95 masks to keep the outside of the KN95 clean longer. KN95/N95 should not be cleaned with chemicals or washed. The inventor of the N95 recommended baking at a higher heat I believe.


Just FYI everyone, I have seen KN95 masks at both London Drugs and Shoppers Drug Mart. But you must try and see which ones fit you, and that's an individual thing.

The first one I tried just did not fit or seal; useless. The second one I tried had a good fit.

I plan on keeping a stash of these in case I ever have to see a doctor or go into a clinic or hospital... god forbid.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I bought a couple of KN95 masks awhile (summer) ago at my local dollarstore in TO and still using it. The package said it has 5 layers of filtration(?) and smelled funny when I first used it. So added (and periodically change) an extra layer (paper towel / coffee filter) inside to bypass the smell. Also, keep it inside a paper bag after each use to keep it clean. So far so good. 

Now I don't see them at all at that store, only the cloth ones. I guess I can always go on Amazon (I see a ton) to get them.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I am increasingly wearing a KN95 mask in most situations. I've been using some that I got from Shoppers Drug Mart. They fit me quite well and are durable; I've never had any straps break. They create such a good seal around my mouth and nose, that after wearing it a while, even if I take the straps off my ears, the mask stays in place.

Those of you wearing KN95 masks might want try this simple test. Breathing out should puff up (expand) the folded fabric. Breathing in should contract. This is a quick test to make sure you've got an OK seal.

Does anyone know of any updated guidance regarding KN95? Do we still believe these offer superior protection to multi-layered surgical masks?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I have no updated guidance (official, scientific?) regarding KN95. But so far still using the same KN95 mask from my post #15 (some half a year at least) and it's still holding. Only issue that came up recently is the elastics are stretched but a cheat knot-tie on each tightened it abit. [Unlike the 3M N95 (older model?), once that elastic band is stretched/dried out, you would have to replace regardless the mask is still good.]

Haven't done your breathing-in-out-the-mask test but have done the "puff" test during a very cold winter day. Breathing out the mask did not produce any puffs or your breath so potentially no leaks.

Re the surgical masks - no longer keen on getting those seeing how easily those built up as litters .. on Toronto streets.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> But so far still using the same KN95 mask from my post #15 (some half a year at least) and it's still holding. Only issue that came up recently is the elastics are stretched but a cheat knot-tie on each tightened it abit.


Are you reusing this many times? The KN95s are still disposable, and should be used (in my opinion) only a limited number of times, and then disposed.

As particles and other junk get trapped in the layers, their effectiveness decreases, just like any other filter. I believe the KN95 masks also have an electrostatic charge at one of the layers, which helps trap foreign objects. That electrostatic charge wears off over time, reducing effectiveness.

Repeatedly wearing them will also stretch out, and could eventually break, the stitches and seals, compromising the mask's protection.

So make sure you throw them out after a few uses


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Germany has indicated that everyone should be wearing N95 or equivalent masks, and is not recommending the use of cloth or surgical masks anymore. I don't think it's unreasonable, but I think at this point it would be a hard sell. Everyone has invested in cloth masks and probably prefer them.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> Germany has indicated that everyone should be wearing N95 or equivalent masks, and is not recommending the use of cloth or surgical masks anymore. I don't think it's unreasonable, but I think at this point it would be a hard sell. Everyone has invested in cloth masks and probably prefer them.


I also bought a bunch of cloth masks several months ago, but I don't use them as much any more. I suspect that my 4-layer surgical masks, and the KN95, are much better.


----------



## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

These ones fit me really well, better than pleated disposable medical masks I have tried. They recommend using up to 10 times. They seal well enough that I can feel them puff in and out when I breathe. They've been tested and meet standards for level 3 medical masks. The company also sells a mask refreshing spray. 
Point 1 Nano Adult Mask – Sterasure


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Are you reusing this many times? The KN95s are still disposable, and should be used (in my opinion) only a limited number of times, and then disposed.
> 
> As particles and other junk get trapped in the layers, their effectiveness decreases, just like any other filter. I believe the KN95 masks also have an electrostatic charge at one of the layers, which helps trap foreign objects. That electrostatic charge wears off over time, reducing effectiveness.
> 
> ...


 ... as mentioned, I did the "puff" test (read online that it gauges replacement or not) and didn't see my breath so assumed it's still good. And I keep my mask extremely clean. 

I also keep in mind that a mask is not the only virus-protection tool but hands washing (with gloves worn before that), and keeping a distance too. The latter possibly more important than anything else because even you wear a protective shield (which I have seen plenty of people are doing, aside from the mask) which I think is too much, a entry point can be your eyes.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> and keeping a distance too.


This is the single most effective measure against catching COVID. Just staying away from other people, and making sure there's a good distance between them.

The worst thing (highest risk) for COVID is spending a long time in an enclosed space together, especially if there's lots of talking.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ A deeper definition of "social-distancing".


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Today, I bought Vitacore brand, Canadian N95 equivalent masks at London Drugs. I just walked into a store and picked up a pack, but the people at the store tell me that availability comes and goes, since people buy them up as soon as they appear on the shelf.

Here's information on CAN95 from the manufacturer. They are made in Burnaby BC and approved by Health Canada as an N95 equivalent. Here's an article from McMaster University describing the partnership which created the CAN95 involving McMaster, the National Research Council, and manufacturers.

I think it's pretty great that just a few months later, I'm able to buy the product on a store shelf, and it's protecting my life.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There was a CBC Marketplace segment (link to video) on fake N95 and KN95 masks. It sounds like there a ton of fake, and below-standard masks out there. Some lessons I took away:

Don't buy masks off Amazon (too sketchy)
Make sure the package shows the manufacturer name & address
Check that the manufacturer's name is on the government's list
If you see an FDA logo, it's fake. The FDA doesn't endorse masks.

I buy two types of (K)N95 masks. Some of them are from Shoppers Drug Mart (Wellwise, online) and others the CAN95 above. The good news is that both of the types appear on the government's list of authorized medical devices.

The ones I got from Shoppers are from a Chinese manufacturer (Weihai Shengjie Medical) which actually does appear in the government's list. This is why it's important that the name of the manufacturer exists on the product you buy.

If you find fakes, if you bought them from a large store, I also suggest keeping the receipt and the masks as evidence. I'm sure there will be class action lawsuits later against retailers like Walmart for selling us fake Chinese medical devices.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Today, I bought Vitacore brand, Canadian N95 equivalent masks at London Drugs. I just walked into a store and picked up a pack, but the people at the store tell me that availability comes and goes, since people buy them up as soon as they appear on the shelf.


Our costco normally has a few skids these days.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Our costco normally has a few skids these days.


You should check the manufacturer info against the Canadian & US government lists. Try to make sure they are authentic.

Not everything labelled KN95 is meeting filtration specifications. Some of them are falling very short of 95% filtration.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Thanks for the above info GreatLaker & J4B. Will further check them out.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Related to the CBC item I posted above, here's a more thorough article which also lists various KN95 which passed and failed.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mask-filtration-standards-marketplace-1.5974442



I also suggest trying to buy the Canadian made CAN95 masks as these are a known quantity (as opposed to mysterious Chinese products). No matter where you buy it, make sure you read the name of the manufacturer off the package and verify it through this government web site.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Some experts are saying that the Canadian government is behind the curve, and should be telling people to wear N95 style masks.

I agree, and because of European guidance and the new variants, plus advice from a doctor in our family (who works in Europe), I've stepped up to only wearing N95 style masks. This is now the only thing I wear for grocery store and other store visits.

The CAN95 mask factory shown in this video is the same one I described above. They are easy to find, and I now have a drawer full of N95 equivalent masks.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Anybody buy the ones at costco? Less than $1 each.



https://www.costco.ca/kn95-disposable-5-layer-face-mask%2C-20-pack.product.100672009.html


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> Anybody buy the ones at costco? Less than $1 each.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.costco.ca/kn95-disposable-5-layer-face-mask%2C-20-pack.product.100672009.html


Do they show the name of the manufacturer on the package? And does that manufacturer name show up on the government's web site? It would be useful to check those things before buying a ton of them.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Do they show the name of the manufacturer on the package? And does that manufacturer name show up on the government's web site? It would be useful to check those things before buying a ton of them.


Don’t know. That’s why I asked. Was hoping to buy online. Some reviews are poor for quality and comfort.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> Don’t know. That’s why I asked. Was hoping to buy online. Some reviews are poor for quality and comfort.


I'm sure someone around here has bought Costco ones. Hopefully they can post details.


----------



## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I'm sure someone around here has bought Costco ones. Hopefully they can post details.


Here is the link from Costco


https://www.costco.ca/kn95-disposable-5-layer-face-mask%2C-20-pack.product.100672009.html



I have the box in front of me and it reads:
Manufacturer: Zhengzhou Wanshenshan Health care PPE co. Ltd

I found a Link:




__





CONTACT_Zhengzhou Wanshenshan Healthcare PPE Co., Ltd.






en.zzwss.com





They are on health Canada recommended mask list:




__





List of medical devices for exceptional importation and sale - Canada.ca


The list of medical devices for exceptional importation and sale includes all designated medical devices that have been permitted to be imported and sold under this IO




www.canada.ca





They are tight fitting and puff in and out with my breathing.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

leoc2 said:


> Here is the link from Costco
> https://www.costco.ca/kn95-disposable-5-layer-face-mask%2C-20-pack.product.100672009.html
> I have the box in front of me and it reads:
> Manufacturer: Zhengzhou Wanshenshan Health care PPE co. Ltd


Fantastic! So we've identified two kinds that seem legitimate and which show up on the government's approved list.

This Costco one you found, and the Wellwise.ca ones (Shoppers Drug Mart) I've been ordering.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Insanity keep doing the same thing & expect different results. Wearing one mask is not working, Wear the whole box of masks @ once & do not forget to wear your googles


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

All you folks in Ontario and Quebec should make sure you're using KN95 or CAN95 around strangers now. Or at least very well fitting surgical masks. Infections are spreading very rapidly in Ontario.

Here's a trick I recently learned to make the KN95 type of masks fit better. Usually I find that the metal nose piece is bent sharply and has a crease in it. This results in a poor fit around the nose. So first *straighten out the crease* and then fit and shape it around your nose.

Mine are fitting much better now.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ That's a very good tip though I have been just bending it to fit over my nose since that metal piece is pretty malleable.

As for the KN95s, I've noticed more and more people are using those along with CAN95s which are becoming more affordable too. So it's a good sign.

And then I noticed there're still people who don't wear a mask ... as required on public transit. But then I'm gathering these non-mask wearers have a mental challenge/issue so at least they have a legitimate excuse to distinguish them from the "perfectly-natural-narcissist-look-at-me!" dumbaxxed anti-maskers.

PS: Any tip to stop or reduce the fogging of glasses (short of smearing it with shaving cream?) with the mask on - especially now the winter air is here? Maybe I should go google it first ...


----------



## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Glasses fogging up is an indication that the mask is not fitted well. You could always try double-sided body tape such as this stuff


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> Glasses fogging up is an indication that the mask is not fitted well. You could always try double-sided body tape such as this stuff


 ... thought so and thanks for the suggestion. I think the elastic band gets stretched abit so warm air is escaping. Or my ears are too small to begin with. Will tighten them up first and see it works.


----------



## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm not sure that fogging glasses is a sign of a mask that does not fit well. It may indicate a badly fitting mask, but not necessarily so. 

I have some really good masks that have been tested to exceed the standards for L3 medical masks and are FDA certified surgical respirators. They have a really robust nose wire and I do not feel any air escaping around the edges. The mask puffs in and out when I breathe. Even when holding the nose wire firmly against my nose, my glasses still fog.

I believe that when you breathe out without a mask, your breath moves rapidly down and away from your face, especially when breathing out through your nose. No matter how well the mask fits and seals, the air still must go somewhere. The mask slows the air and diffuses it, so more of it is likely to move up and fog up glasses. 

I don't think it is certain that fogged glasses indicate a mask that does not fit or filter well. Try holding the edges of the mask tight to your face and see if you still get fogging.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Will try that too, thanks!


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> PS: Any tip to stop or reduce the fogging of glasses (short of smearing it with shaving cream?) with the mask on - especially now the winter air is here? Maybe I should go google it first ...


I find that when the mask fits my nose well, I get very little fogging. I wear masks with glasses all the time with no fogging problem.

Straightening that nose wire did the trick for me. I also wear surgical masks that don't fog, once I massage the nose shape to fit my nose well.

A bit of fogging is inevitable but it's really not too bad. I suggest trying different masks to see how they fit differently.


----------



## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> PS: Any tip to stop or reduce the fogging of glasses (short of smearing it with shaving cream?) with the mask on - especially now the winter air is here? Maybe I should go google it first ...


Dr. Eye Health recommends surgical tape. (YouTube link)
How to keep your glasses from fogging while wearing a face mask


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Hope everyone stocked up on these KN95 and CAN95s. It seems they are now impossible to find and the local sources I've used are entirely sold out.

The good news is that in the last two days, I've started seeing many people wearing these in public. I've never seen that before. I guess people finally have figured out that vaccinations didn't make them invincible.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Don't need masks down here...very enjoyable.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eder said:


> Don't need masks down here...very enjoyable.


If you're outdoors, no masks needed. How's the weather?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

If anyone here tried the Vitacore CAN95 but found it's a bit too small for their face, you should try their CAN99e (that's an earloop version). I ordered a box from the manufacturer.

The CAN99e is slightly larger than the CAN95e and seems a bit more breathable too.

They're about the same price per unit. The CAN99e is a new product that just rolled out, this is an earloop version of the medical ones that use straps.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I'm still working through my KN95 masks with the CAN99 (no e) as a backup. 
I'm glad I ordered that backup last year (as expensive as it was) as right now any orders are in queue for weeks (or whenever) with the Ontario distributor.


----------

