# Air Miles just got devalued



## Dave

It now takes 190 Air Miles instead of 150 to get a 20$ gift card. 
One Air Mile is now worth roughly 10 cents and with each dollar spent, you earn half a cent worth of rewards assuming you need to spend 20$ to get one Air Mile at IGA. 
It is the equivalent of a 0.5% cash back with very limited options for redemption.

I never guide my purchases according to Air Miles earned, and everyone in our family has a card for the same account. If not, it would take forever to accumulate enough to redeem if you are a regular guy. Maybe it is different for those with golden accounts and a BMO Air Miles credit card, but I am too lazy to crunch the numbers.

Dave


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## FrugalTrader

I'm not a huge collector of Air Miles, but I found their movie passes to be pretty good value. Specifically, the 50% off coupons .


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## HaroldCrump

What a waste of time Air Miles is.
I have had an Air Miles card for years and even have an AmEx card linked to Air Miles.
All I have been able to redeem over the years are toys, puzzles, etc. for the kids.
Most of the other stuff is useless overpriced junk.
It will take excessive spending for several years to be able to buy anything worthwhile.

When are they going bankrupt?


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## indexxx

Airmiles is pretty useless for the average person, IMHO. You need to spend so much in order to get any kind of reward- and then there are restrictions on the flights, like blackouts at Christmas, not valid on seat sales, etc etc. It's better to get either an MBNA Cashback card and putting the refunds in a travel account (just got my first $50 check today, in five months of having the card) or getting a better travel rewards card that allows you to use it towards any flight, any time. Here's a link to some Canadian cards:

http://canada.creditcards.com/

http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/top-no-fee-rewards-credit-cards-in-canada.htm

I still have my Airmiles account- but I switched it over to cash rewards instead of travel points.


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## KaeJS

HaroldCrump said:


> What a waste of time Air Miles is.
> I have had an Air Miles card for years and even have an AmEx card linked to Air Miles.
> 
> It will take excessive spending for several years to be able to buy anything worthwhile.


I have had my Air Miles card for years, too. I've got a whole 12 reward miles. LOL.


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## Argonaut

Any cards to do with points and redemption err on the side of gobbledegook in my books. Cash back is simple, tangible, and requires no effort.


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## ghayoor

I am also very fatigue with it. I prefer to use the Credit instead of air miles one.


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## Guigz

We've been using an airmiles card for the last several years (we recently replaced it with a MBNA cashback card). We cashed all of our airmiles for fuel gift cards and car washes.

We knew airmiles was going to change their exchange rates so we took all of our airmiles to buy the above.

Final result: 20 something car washes and 650$ worth of fuel. Not bad considering we spent a maximum of about 40,000$ to get those.

If you don't mind buying different brands for some stuff (e.g., wine and sports gear) they often offer extra airmiles for purchasing a given brand. The rate of return is decent considering that you would buy the stuff anyway.


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## JustAGuy

Huh... my wife and I have been collecting airmiles with our mastercards... we buy *everything* on credit, and then pay it off immediately so that we've never owed any interest. After about 5 years of this We've currently got enough for about 4 return flights to anywhere in north america


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## Causalien

I collected about 400 airmiles last year, then spent it all once I heard about the rules change and the reason. They said that they have a huge inventory of airmiles that are just sitting around doing nothing and is hindering their ability to plan their finances. The change to 5 year expiration and two tiered airmiles is only the beginning. Dilution is an obvious follow up. I adviced everyone I know to spend their airmiles and switch to mbna.


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## indexxx

Causalien said:


> I collected about 400 airmiles last year, then spent it all once I heard about the rules change and the reason. They said that they have a huge inventory of airmiles that are just sitting around doing nothing and is hindering their ability to plan their finances. The change to 5 year expiration and two tiered airmiles is only the beginning. Dilution is an obvious follow up. I adviced everyone I know to spend their airmiles and switch to mbna.


Ditto this!


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## AMABILE

look under " gift cards and subsciptions" 
then " automotive fuel and services "


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## FrugalTrader

Looks like they got rid of the 50% off movie passes:distress:


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## travelgeek

This devaluation brings the gift card/cert rate in line with its new cash program. The value of 1 AM is now approx 10.5 cents.

As with any rewards program, one should redeem as soon as there are sufficient points in the account for the reward of their choice. The value of points will always be devalued.


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## indexxx

travelgeek said:


> This devaluation brings the gift card/cert rate in line with its new cash program. The value of 1 AM is now approx 10.5 cents.
> 
> As with any rewards program, one should redeem as soon as there are sufficient points in the account for the reward of their choice. The value of points will always be devalued.


That's just evil. Can they legally do that? I guess somewhere in my cardholder agreement it must state that they can change the value at their discretion... but never mind that inflation has eaten up a large percentage of my reward value in the ten years I've had my account- but for them to suddenly drop the value like that is terrible. I spent all this time building up a balance, never using any of my miles- and now I've lost what, 27% or so? Screw this, I'm cashing it all in for free gas!


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## HaroldCrump

JustAGuy said:


> Huh... my wife and I have been collecting airmiles with our mastercards... we buy *everything* on credit, and then pay it off immediately so that we've never owed any interest. After about 5 years of this We've currently got enough for about 4 return flights to anywhere in north america


Is that the BMO Gold Mastercard?
If so, you have about 11,400 miles (at least).
On the BMO Mastercard, you would have spent $171,000 over the 5 years i.e. $34,200 a yr.
That is a _lot_ to spend for Air Miles.

And if you don't have the BMO Gold Card, then you probably have at least 15,200 miles.
That equates to having spent $304,000 over 5 years.

And I am using off-peak reward rates.
If we instead use an avergae of off-peak and peak reward miles, the amount of money you would have spent to get those 4 return flights becomes mind boggling.

Even with a 1.5% cash back card, the $304,000 would have netted you $4,560 of cold, hard cash.


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## Guigz

HaroldCrump said:


> Even with a 1.5% cash back card, the $304,000 would have netted you $4,560 of cold, hard cash.



You forget promotional items.

It is not rare to get a reward between 20-50 airmiles with the purchase of something costing 10-100$. If he explicitly went out looking for those deals, it is quite possible that he did not spend anywhere close to your figure.


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## HaroldCrump

Guigz said:


> You forget promotional items.
> 
> It is not rare to get a reward between 20-50 airmiles with the purchase of something costing 10-100$. If he explicitly went out looking for those deals, it is quite possible that he did not spend anywhere close to your figure.


Yeah, I have seen those promotional deals, but I doubt most of them are that generous i.e. 20 miles for spending $10 or 50 miles for spending $100.
Most of these are 3 to 5, maybe 10, bonus miles for spending well over $50.

In my flight rewards calculations above, I made the most favorable assumptions i.e. off-peak tickets, BMO Gold card, etc.
If you drop any or all of those assumptions, the spending required to accumulate return flights to "anywhere in North America" appears mind boggling (to me at least).

And if someone is actively chasing "deals" that provide bonus airmiles simply to accumulate more miles, IMHO, over time it leads to wasteful spending and very low RoR.


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## travelgeek

indexxx said:


> That's just evil. Can they legally do that? I guess somewhere in my cardholder agreement it must state that they can change the value at their discretion... but never mind that inflation has eaten up a large percentage of my reward value in the ten years I've had my account- but for them to suddenly drop the value like that is terrible. I spent all this time building up a balance, never using any of my miles- and now I've lost what, 27% or so? Screw this, I'm cashing it all in for free gas!


It's likely in the T&C's of the program. What's frustrating about Air Miles is that they often inflate the miles required for gift card/cert redemptions without any advance warning. I've stopped collecting them a few years ago as I never know when they will sneak in another devaluation, likely right when I have enough to redeem for something. As previous posters have likely mentioned, if you redeem for gift cards/certs, you will do much better with a cash back credit card.


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## JustAGuy

A lot of it is general spending, but a lot of is was also buying groceries from Metro and taking advantage of the promotions. There are lots of items (cans of corn or soup etc) where you can get 5 miles for buying two items or something... and then you get the points on top for how much you spend, and if you go on one of those weekends where you get the extra miles for spending over $100... it accumulates reasonably fast. Our combined salaries wouldn't allow us to spend that much in a 5 year period, and especially since one of those 5 years we lived in Australia and weren't accumulating air miles at all.


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## MrMatt

Dave said:


> I never guide my purchases according to Air Miles earned,


Then it doesn't matter IMO. I have air miles aeroplan and a pile of other cards, but often I don't even bother pulling them out of my wallet. I know the points are nearly useless. 

Cashback is the way to go, it's simple and straightforward.


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## JustAGuy

To be honest, I just looked at the costs for tickets. I was confused about how many flights I can take.

We've got enough for 2 round trips with airmiles, and 2 round trips with aeroplan, not my previously stated 4 round trips with airmiles.

I have to use my aeroplan this year before they expire :-/


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## HaroldCrump

I looked at the Airmiles flight reward points map again, and there is one flaw in it that can hurt you if you are not careful (or, conversely, you can use it to your advantage).
It seems to be rating the zones by distance, however, that is not how flight pricing works in reality.
For example, a flight from Toronto (Zone 5) to Montreal (Zone 6) requires less points than a flight from Toronto to Miami (Zone 13).
However, Toronto - Montreal flights are notoriously expensive, regardless of peak season (esp. week day business travel flights).
Flights to Miami on the other hand, are often dirt cheap.

Stretch it out further, and it gets crazier.
A flight from Toronto to Vegas will require more than 3x points than the flight from Toronto to Montreal.
Yet, in reality, you can easily fly from the Toronto to Vegas for the same price, or less, than to Montreal.

A flight to London, England, will set you back by whopping 5,500 points yet you can easily book an off-peak season return flight for about $750 between Toronto and London.

In reality, flight pricing depends on several factors, and distance is the least important of all.


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## Mall Guy

HaroldCrump said:


> Yeah, I have seen those promotional deals, but I doubt most of them are that generous i.e. 20 miles for spending $10 or 50 miles for spending $100.
> Most of these are 3 to 5, maybe 10, bonus miles for spending well over $50.


Shell runs a promo couple of times a year - 4 fill up (over 30 L) = 100 pts. x 3 per year, Home heating fuel = 150 pts per season. Liquor store, food store, a home reno project or two, was great when Westjet was giving out pts, oh well . . . "gave" most of my pts to the kids as grad presents - they got ipods out of the deal


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## Charlie

HaroldCrump said:


> In reality, flight pricing depends on several factors, and distance is the least important of all.


short haul flights to non popular destinations has always been a good use of airmiles. Vancouver to Prince George is great value. Vancouver to Los Angeles -- not so much. The recent wrinkle has been all the extra charges with are not included in the covered fare -- fuel/bags/etc.


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## Echo

Back in December, after Air Miles announced changes to their expiration policy (reward miles will expire after 5 years), they announced a redemption change that would take effect in March, 2012. Now you have Air Miles Cash for instant redemptions at the cashier, and Air Miles Dream for travel and merchandise. They got rid of most of the gift cards to help push the Air Miles Cash feature. Unfortunately, they only have a handful of sponsors on board to take the Air Miles Cash redemption at the cashier. They also increased the number of reward miles needed for redemption. 95 miles = $10 off.

http://www.boomerandecho.com/air-miles-cash-vs-air-miles-dream/


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## Jungle

I heard somewhere that there is a shift in the trend of rewards cards..more people are going for the cash reward over the restricted travel cards. (with black out dates and poor reward rates..)


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## HaroldCrump

JustAGuy said:


> We've got enough for 2 round trips with airmiles, and 2 round trips with aeroplan, not my previously stated 4 round trips with airmiles.


With Aeroplan, you can use only status miles to redeem for flights; and I believe the only way to get status miles is to actually fly :-/
Back when West Jet used to provide Air Miles, it made more sense to sign up.
I just don't see the value any more, and lost interest over the years.


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## travelgeek

HaroldCrump said:


> With Aeroplan, you can use only status miles to redeem for flights; and I believe the only way to get status miles is to actually fly :-/


Actually you can use all miles in your Aeroplan to redeem for flights. Status miles are only used in determining whether or not you will have any Top Tier (Super Elite/Elite/Prestige) status/benefits for the following year.


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## JustAGuy

Flying is how I accumulated them.

Companies fly me places for business, and I get to earn aeroplan points.


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## m3s

HaroldCrump said:


> Stretch it out further, and it gets crazier.
> A flight from Toronto to Vegas will require more than 3x points than the flight from Toronto to Montreal.
> Yet, in reality, you can easily fly from the Toronto to Vegas for the same price, or less, than to Montreal.
> 
> A flight to London, England, will set you back by whopping 5,500 points yet you can easily book an off-peak season return flight for about $750 between Toronto and London.
> 
> In reality, flight pricing depends on several factors, and distance is the least important of all.


Yes. I've brought this up in several forums whenever people tend to claim gift cards offer the best return. I have made far better return on Dash 8 flights (which are notoriously expensive as you say) The worst part is you still have to pay a bunch of fees, which are about the same as the cost of actually driving a typical car for those short flights... which brings in the fact that you can actually get from Toronto to Montreal for several ways cheaper just about as fast. These flights are the most convenient way I've found to burn off the miles before they devalue even further... cash back for me from now on



indexxx said:


> But you can't use the miles at Xmas due to a blackout period, the only time I usually go. Or else you can't use them in conjunction with other offers, or it's used against the full fare value (not seat sale price), or only with such and such airline, or you have to stand on one foot while playing Purple Haze on a kazoo held in your left hand only, etc etc.


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## indexxx

Just redeemed my airmiles for a stack of $20 gas cards. Then it's MBNA cash back all the way. I just opened the account a few months ago, don't really spend that much, and already got a check for $50 last week.


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## Guigz

My only regret with going with upwards of 600$ of Fuel gift cards is that I do not get the 3% cashback on those "saved" fuel dollars.

Oh well, gotta lose some...


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## Earth and Money

One of the best values I was able to find on the Air Miles system was a 1 year subscription to Maclean's. In fact, most of the magazine subscriptions they offer are a pretty good value. The Cineplex movie tickets are usually good, and the entertainment rewards as well (such as basketball or hockey tickets). The new Air Miles Cash system has devalued Air Miles even further - I wrote a blog post to that effect last month if anyone is interested. 
Air Miles Cash - Deal or No Deal - http://www.earthandmoney.ca/air-miles-cash-deal-or-no-deal/


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## realist

I did really well with AirMiles for a long time, mostly just at the LCBO and Metro grocery stores, and Shell for a while, and I had a BMO Air Miles Mastercard. I paid for the first two months of groceries with Airmiles when I went back to school a few years ago. Now I don't drive so no Shell, the Metro near us closed so I am mostly shopping at Loblaws, and use a Capital One Cash Back MC. I am getting a lot fewer miles now, but if I am shopping at those places anyways its a free reward, on top of whatever reward I get on my credit card.


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## dotnet_nerd

I started browsing through this thread then my eyes started glazing over.

Sheesh. Promotions, fly zones, blackout dates, bankruptcy, devaluations, fuel cards, expiries, no more movies, gas mulipliers, toys & puzzles, ...

I'm just shaking my head. _Why do people bother with this crap?_

I agree with the above comments, get a cashback card. I use MBNA. They reward me with money.


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## Tom Dl

I've never signed up for one, but my credit card keeps accumulating large amounts of first home dollars, even though I have my first home...


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## Charlie

Earth and Money said:


> I wrote a blog post to that effect last month if anyone is interested.
> Air Miles Cash - Deal or No Deal - http://www.earthandmoney.ca/air-miles-cash-deal-or-no-deal/


What a fantastic analysis. Thank you!


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## GregGH2

Somehow from this thread I found out that Aeroplan miles die after 7 years ... and this change started in 2007 .... so in 2013 -a busy time buying gas cards ...

http://blog.aeroplan.com/aeroplan/aeroplan’s-mileage-expiry-policies-explained/
see bottom part of above link... took me a while to see the link on the accounts page they mention ... still waiting for reply via e0mail only status on year of points ..but pretty sure I have some old ones ... as I just collect and never seem to do much - waiting ( not sure for what )

Greg


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## indexxx

Guigz said:


> My only regret with going with upwards of 600$ of Fuel gift cards is that I do not get the 3% cashback on those "saved" fuel dollars.
> 
> Oh well, gotta lose some...


Ah! But, I discovered this week when I filled up at Shell that you do get Airmiles on the gift vouchers. I switched my Airmiles to cash rewards, so now on the rare occasion I do use it, I'll at least build up something I can use quickly. Rewards on the rewards- compound returns!


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## davext

JustAGuy said:


> Huh... my wife and I have been collecting airmiles with our mastercards... we buy *everything* on credit, and then pay it off immediately so that we've never owed any interest. After about 5 years of this We've currently got enough for about 4 return flights to anywhere in north america


I'm almost certain you'd be better off with other reward cards if you were able to earn that much. 

Air Miles is the worst of almost all the other evils.

I used to fly back and forth to the States on NWA, and it would give me 25 miles per segment which was great when I flew 50 times a year but after that ended, it took forever to get airmiles. I know you can get airmiles if you go to the airmiles site and then from there, go to Expedia to book your vacations. That's one way to really bank some miles.


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## Dopplegangerr

I have been using a Air Miles credit cart for more then ten years and still have saved very little. Not enough for a trip thats for sure. I will be switching over to a cashback credit card, something I wish I had done many many years ago


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## Jim9guitars

I recently discovered that shopping for groceries at almost any store that doesn't deal with airmiles is so much cheaper that it is pointless(pun intended) to continue using airmiles and shopping in expensive stores. One example, the airmiles grocery store charges over $2.00 more for the same jar of peanut butter that 3 other local stores carry.


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## BBB

I have used a airmiles card for last 2 years or so, but just checked and found I had 400 or so points. Just got a year subscription to Money Sense, so its not a total waste I guess.


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## AmandaGrifin

One thing to keep in mind regardless of which type of travel card you get IT IS VERY IMPORTANT to pay the balance of your charges in full every month as the finance charges on any unpaid balances will quickly add up to much more than the value of any free ticket you may earn.


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## dogcom

For me I hate air miles or points because you just don't know the value of them. For example you need 12,000 points to get a toaster and next month it could be 15,000 for all I know. 

I shop at Canadian tire so I use Canadian tire money reward because a dollar is a dollar in Canadian tire money. I also never see where you need a 1000 dollars Canadian tire money to buy a toaster that is 10 Canadian dollars.


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## HaroldCrump

^ in other words, programs like Air Miles and Aeroplan are the true meters of inflation, not the garbage CPI numbers that the govt. puts out.


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## gibor365

For last several years I used Airmiles (I have Airmiles AMEX and card) to buy gift cards to The Keg and I liked it as 2 or 3 times per year we were going there.... last year Keg stop dealing with Airmiles  (probably The Keg has plenty of customers w/o airmiles)... so now I was just buimg Metro coupons.... and yes I prefer using my order reward Visa CC (at least they refund real money)


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## travelgeek

Airmiles has just discontinued the Metro, Shell, and Pharma Plus gift cards/certificates. So you won't be able to use your remaining dream balances miles for those.


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## HaroldCrump

Why do I get the feeling that Air Miles is falling apart.
All these recent changes point to a dissolution, probably bankruptcy.
I am going to start redeeming my miles right away.


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## K-133

HaroldCrump said:


> Why do I get the feeling that Air Miles is falling apart.
> All these recent changes point to a dissolution, probably bankruptcy.
> I am going to start redeeming my miles right away.


Or a change in administration of points, entering the era of mobile devices and where point of sale are better integrated in to the process.

https://www.airmiles.ca/collector/EarnRatioAllCash


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## Cal

I just got a promo in the mail from Air Miles. 25 bonus air miles if you switch your card over to accumulate points on a 'cash' tally. Then with participating merchants for every 95 points your can deduct $10 from your bill. Sounds good and convenient. But you can't move over your existing balance. 

So in my case, I have 189 points locked up on the 'dream' side for flights, merchandise, and gift cards. I can't even buy a $20 gift card for 190 points, b/c most of them have been cancelled as they are the participating merchants to redeem the points you accumulate in your 'cash' points section.

For now my settings are to 90% cash, and 10% dream (as in dream on sucker) unitl I either accumulate another 1 point to redeem to get a $20 rona gift card or (i think it was) 240 points for an itunes gift card. Then I will change my settings for 100% cash. The cash tally has to be left at over 50% until the end of the month, to qualify for the bonus points.

IMO it is basically a way for airmiles to lock up more unredeemable points for longer, potentially indefinitely for some. To reduce the amount of air miles that are actually redeemed.


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## Charlie

At 190 points a movie night is a very good deal. There's one for 175 too. Much better than gift cards if you like the movies.


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## Dopplegangerr

I have 4000+ points, never redeemed for anything, I just keep getting them because I have an Airmiles credit card and have been using it for more then a decade. I guess I could see a lot of movies for that....


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## indexxx

I redeemed mine this spring for free Shell gas coupons.


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## indexxx

Ok- am I wrong or did Airmiles change their rewards again? It seems you can no longer get gas coupons for 'Dream' rewards, only by building our cash rewards balance and redeeming in store- and of course you cannot transfer Dream points to Cash. Ridiculous.


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## Compounding1

Yeah when I look I see basically no giftcards or subscriptions. That sucks... I got my moneysense subscription through Airmiles and used the rest on free gas =/ I guess I'll be getting free movie tickets this time. Another reason I'm glad I got rid of my Airmiles Amex...


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## Ihatetaxes

Compounding1 said:


> Yeah when I look I see basically no giftcards or subscriptions. That sucks... I got my moneysense subscription through Airmiles and used the rest on free gas =/ I guess I'll be getting free movie tickets this time. Another reason I'm glad I got rid of my Airmiles Amex...


Thanks for the idea, just ordered two movie packages. First time ever cashing in on these airmiles and seems like a better deal than the 95 miles for $10 cash on purchases they are pushing now.

I've got enough for 20 more of these two ticket plus popcorn/drinks deals. :encouragement:


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## NorthKC

Air Miles used to be really good but now they suck. I don't go out of my way to get them but considering that I fill up at Shell all the time and always seem to be during Air Miles promotion, I tend to rack up a lot of points just in time to get some free gas between paycheque. I can't complain really, but I always knew that air miles would be devalued as time goes on as it happens with other rewards card. There will come a time when Shell will no longer partner with air miles. At that point, I'll redeem my points and cancel my account.


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## HaroldCrump

Both Air Miles and Aeroplan are aggressively devaluing their points and rewards.
Have been doing so for the last 2 - 3 years.

To me, the devaluation of Aeroplan and Air Miles are a better measure of inflation in real goods and services, rather than that bogus CPI numbers the govt. spews out :biggrin:


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## 6811

HaroldCrump said:


> Both Air Miles and Aeroplan are aggressively devaluing their points and rewards.
> Have been doing so for the last 2 - 3 years.
> 
> To me, the devaluation of Aeroplan and Air Miles are a better measure of inflation in real goods and services, rather than that bogus CPI numbers the govt. spews out :biggrin:


Couldn't agree more HC,

RBC VISA Reward Points are being regularly devalued too. About this time last year I figured I should have enough points for that item of lawn furniture I was short some points on the previous Fall and to my surprise the item's point value had been increased by 2,000 points to 14,000. Just checked and it's now at 17,000, an increase of about 16.5% in 2012 and this year about 21.5%.


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## bgc_fan

6811 said:


> Couldn't agree more HC,
> 
> RBC VISA Reward Points are being regularly devalued too. About this time last year I figured I should have enough points for that item of lawn furniture I was short some points on the previous Fall and to my surprise the item's point value had been increased by 2,000 points to 14,000. Just checked and it's now at 17,000, an increase of about 16.5% in 2012 and this year about 21.5%.


I wonder if this means that people will start moving away from reward cards and towards straight cash back/dividend type cards. After all, 1%-2% cash back usually doesn't get devalued.


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## Ihatetaxes

Still very happy with Avion. Spend a ton on it through business every year and fly for free all the time.


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## 6811

bgc_fan said:


> I wonder if this means that people will start moving away from reward cards and towards straight cash back/dividend type cards. After all, 1%-2% cash back usually doesn't get devalued.


Funny you should mention that because I already have started using my other card when I can. The cash back may not amount to much annually but a cheque is always better than the annoyance of feeling ripped off because your points aren't worth as much as you thought.


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## indexxx

I've moved to a cash back card. And the only thing I can see using my airmiles for now is iTunes gift cards- at least I'll get some use out of music and apps etc. I tried numerous times to fly using Airmiles, but there are always too many restrictions. Useless program to me now.


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## Echo

bgc_fan said:


> I wonder if this means that people will start moving away from reward cards and towards straight cash back/dividend type cards. After all, 1%-2% cash back usually doesn't get devalued.


Tell that to all the Smart Cash cardholders who got screwed after TD bought MBNA - http://www.rewardscardscanada.com/mbna-smart-cash-rewards-changes-explained/


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## bgc_fan

Echo said:


> Tell that to all the Smart Cash cardholders who got screwed after TD bought MBNA - http://www.rewardscardscanada.com/mbna-smart-cash-rewards-changes-explained/


Fair enough, but that is an extraordinary circumstance where the company was bought out by another. As well it was presented up front. But the examples I see here seem to be backdoor changes where you require more points to purchase something.

I don't track all the cash back cards, but I've had one for a dozen years but the terms haven't changed since I have used it. 

Another difference is that reward programs tend to lock people in, i.e. Already have a lot of points so you want keep collecting / spending to avoid losing them. Maybe the returns are lower with cash back, but you really can't beat the flexibility of cash.


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## HaroldCrump

bgc_fan said:


> I wonder if this means that people will start moving away from reward cards and towards straight cash back/dividend type cards. After all, 1%-2% cash back usually doesn't get devalued.


My cash back card has been my primary card for nearly 10 years.
Cash is King where rewards is concerned.

I can usually get a better bang for my buck when booking travel on my own, rather than through any of the travel rewards cards.
My motto is : _give me the cold hard cash, and I'll figure out where to go on next holiday_.

The rewards card market will also get hit significantly if they bring in that new premium card fee that all the retailers have been pushing for.
That will probably be the death knell for most of the rewards cards, except for the truly high end ones used exclusively by the super-rich.


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## jcgd

I just cashed out most of my air miles due to this thread. Got the wife a kettle, and I got a magazine subscription and us a few movie nights out.

We shop at Safeway a lot because it's convenient and they offer airmiles. Is the cash reward worth while or should I keep the dream rewards?


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## rd_aaron

Just a note for everyone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as of Dec 31, 2011, you only have 5 years to use up air miles you've accumulated and you must make at least one transaction every two years, otherwise you lose your points.

It sucks that the air miles are getting devalued but I will stick with them. I use them exclusively for flights, and they are very handy when booking a short-notice flight as they can save you a lot of money. 

For example, I once booked a Regina-Calgary round trip flight about a week in advance using air miles. Right now, that round trip flight costs 1025 air miles (769 air miles with my Gold Mastercard - 25% off). I earn 1 air mile per $15 spent, so that would mean I'd need to spend $11,535 to earn 769 air miles. Because it was fairly last minute, the flights were going to cost around $500 round trip. By using air miles, plus paying the fees of about $150 round trip, that means I would've saved about $350 on the flights. If I had a cash back card, I would've needed $350/$11,535 = 3.03% cash back to earn the $350 I saved.

Now not every situation is like this, but it's nice to have that option when you can't seem to get a seat sale and you need to go somewhere.


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## Echo

As of December 31st, 2011 all Air Miles reward miles in your account will have a date stamp of 5 years. This means that any reward miles that have been earned before December 31st, 2011 will need to be redeemed by December 31st, 2016.

The new Air Miles expiry policy means that effective December 31, 2011 all reward miles posted from that day forward will have a date stamp of five years. The last day to redeem Air Miles rewards will be at the end of the quarter, five years from the date of them being posted to a collectors account.

An inactive account is one that has had no transactional activity for 24 consecutive months or longer – in other words, no reward miles have been earned, redeemed, donated or transferred in that time. Air Miles accounts that have not earned, redeemed, donated or transferred at least one reward mile for 24 consecutive months will be closed.

http://www.rewardscardscanada.com/new-air-miles-expiry-policy/

I say cash 'em out for gift cards (groceries, iTunes, restaurants, clothing).


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## Plugging Along

I used to save my airmiles for last minute flights too, I had enough to go anywhere in the world for two. However, now with kids, I find that it is hard to book the flights for four people. 

Thanks to this thread, I just ordered a new barbeque to replace my old one that just died.


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## HaroldCrump

This aggressive and relentless devaluation and expiration of Air Miles and Aeroplan miles seems to have accelerated since the time both companies became publicly traded.
Aeroplan miles expiration policy is even more aggressive than Air Miles.

I did some napkin math a while ago and for my usage level and the kind of rewards I am interested in, it's almost a wash between straight cash-back or Air Miles.
I will probably slowly started consolidating all my transactions into a single cash back card.


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## fraser

We are exiting Aeroplan after many years. I do not have business travel any more, but the real reason is the cost of redeeming points-especially those so called taxes and fuel surcharges. We will use our existing points on US airlines in the program. Not certain whether we will go with Capital One Aspire or just a straight cash back card. Either way, our CIBC Aeroplan card is gone within the next few months. Once we decide how and when to redeem the remaining 150K points.


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## Ponderling

My best deal is not air miles, but a Canadian Tire Mastercard.

Air miles was really about tracking consurmer purchases. The rewards such as they were were a little carrot on a stick, but the string kept getting shorter on a longer pole. Reward looks like it is always just within reach, but bearly so. 

With the CTC M/C, I buy auto gas at CTC gas bars, use the card for general purchases, and then redeem the CTC money on the card buying household consumables when they go on sale. Dull stuff. Toilet paper, dishwasher detergent , laundry detergent, dryer sheets, kids bike helmets, etc. Stuff you are going to have to buy - why not buy them while on sale,and without cash you had to labour to earn.


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## Plugging Along

Right now, I have found that the 'best rewards' are the cash or equivalent rewards. I have two that I use. 

My TD Travel, I found it super easy to redeem, you don't need a lot of purchases to get the lowest $75 rebate, and they just stick the amount on the card. It works out to a 1.5% reward.

My PC Mastercard, I was just about to get rid of it, and they offered a 'bonus' of an additional 1% equivalent on my Superstore purchases and gas, I have figured it works out to 2% in groceries, which is where I shop any way. 

I gave up on my Airmiles card when they started making it harder and harder, and found that Safeway was much more expensive, so I am now just working on cashing in my tens of thousands of points.


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## gibor365

I also almost gave up on Airmiles, we try using new CIBC MC that give up to 2.5% rebate


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## heyjude

Thanks for this thread. After reading it I decided to resurrect the Air Miles card I hadn't used in a couple of years. I had just over 2500 points. I found something I really wanted in the catalog: a high end set of cookware. I finally ditched my 30 year old pots and pans from Kmart and my culinary adventures have gone up a notch!

http://na.wwrd.com/ae/ca/gordon-ram...re-11-piece-set-with-bonus/invt/652383690929/

Any future Air Miles will be directed to cashback.


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## My Own Advisor

I still collect them. I accumulate them with my insurance company every month. I also collect a bunch at the LCBO  

As the miles add up, I redeem them for free gas at Shell. Might as well get something in return for spending some money.


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## HaroldCrump

Aeroplan miles just got devalued as well.
The miles required for business class and first class travel in all segments increased by about 20%.
http://www3.aeroplan.com/whats_new/news_articles.do?dl=WhatsNew_webup3624_2013_06_18


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## travelgeek

HaroldCrump said:


> Aeroplan miles just got devalued as well.
> The miles required for business class and first class travel in all segments increased by about 20%.
> http://www3.aeroplan.com/whats_new/news_articles.do?dl=WhatsNew_webup3624_2013_06_18


They're calling them 'enhancements' :rolleyes2:


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## sprocket1200

JustAGuy said:


> Huh... my wife and I have been collecting airmiles with our mastercards... we buy *everything* on credit, and then pay it off immediately so that we've never owed any interest. After about 5 years of this We've currently got enough for about 4 return flights to anywhere in north america


And a huge tax and fee bill coming for the 'free' flights!


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## rd_aaron

sprocket1200 said:


> And a huge tax and fee bill coming for the 'free' flights!


I've been a major supporter of Air Miles, but we just booked two return flights from Calgary to Ft. Mac to see some family, and the taxes/fees were $194 each. Still cheaper than the $400 it was going to cost regular price, but hardly worth using Air Miles. In this case, it only worked out to a 0.8% return on investment, which is far below the 3% I've achieved previously. I still like using them for longer flights, shorter notice, when the price goes up, but with fees apparently going up, I'll have to pay close attention as a cash back card might be more worth it.


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## Andrew

Seems to me that Air Miles rewards keep getting worse and worse as time goes on.


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## aB01

I have been collecting Airmiles whenever I remember to, but from what I am reading in this thread, it seems most people were collecting them with a Airmiles credit card. Kind of curious as to why more people don't just use a rewards card.

I just switched to the Scotia Momentum Visa Infinite card (horrible commute), and the only place I get Airmiles is at Shell when it prompts me to insert the Airmiles card (reward card, not credit card). So it's 4% back plus whatever Airmiles (I don't actually keep track of how many there are).


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## james4beach

I calculated yesterday the equivalent Airmiles value for one of the Toronto-based routes I fly very often and it's $0.17 per mile


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## Hawkdog

aB01 said:


> I have been collecting Airmiles whenever I remember to, but from what I am reading in this thread, it seems most people were collecting them with a Airmiles credit card. Kind of curious as to why more people don't just use a rewards card.
> 
> I just switched to the Scotia Momentum Visa Infinite card (horrible commute), and the only place I get Airmiles is at Shell when it prompts me to insert the Airmiles card (reward card, not credit card). So it's 4% back plus whatever Airmiles (I don't actually keep track of how many there are).


I use an aeroplan credit card and a rewards cards - you get double the points at places like shell.

I am not happy with how the points work for flights, especially long haul, its hard to get the route you want or the date.
What I have been doing is cashing in aeroplan miles for Esso gas cards, my last cash in netted me $800 in 50 dollar gas cards.
I used to have an avion card and I would cash in those points for RRSPs.


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## HaroldCrump

With the CAD dropping from $1.05 or so down to $0.91 in less than a year, I wonder if Air Miles, Aeroplan, etc. will further devalue their rewards.
About a month ago, I liquidated all my Air Miles and got passes to several theme parks and attractions like Universal Studios, Disney World, etc.
Those tickets do not have an expiration date, and I expect those rewards to get devalued sooner or later because of the falling loonie.


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## mbmb

HaroldCrump said:


> When are they going bankrupt?


They have just announced a $400 million share repurchase program http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20140108-704013.html


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## HaroldCrump

mbmb said:


> They have just announced a $400 million share repurchase program


I guess that is where all the devaluation of miles is going :rolleyes2:
I am now down to almost 0 Air Miles after my recent redemption.
I am considering abandoning the program, and canceling the AmEx card.
Just straight cash-back - even at 1% - works out better than this.


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## OurBigFatWallet

It's only going to get worse. Soon air miles cash rewards are going to replace the dream rewards that they've traditionally had. That and the fact they will start to expire after a set number of years. We switched to a cash back card and get much more for our money


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## HaroldCrump

Update : I have now redeemed all my Air Miles, and most of my Aeroplan miles on a recent vacation trip to the US.
I got hotels stays, theme park tickets, other coupons, etc.

Next step is to close the AmEx credit card linked to Air Miles, and get a regular cash back card as my 2nd credit card.
For now, I will keep collecting Aeroplan Miles during travel for work, but I will keep redeeming on a regular basis.
If nothing else, I'll order free Cineplex tickets every time I have enough Aeroplan points.


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## bgc_fan

Seeing as this thread is back up. I was wondering how people feel about Avion and other "cash" type frequent flyer credit cards. Is there much incentive on using them as opposed to a straight cash rebate card? My thought was that it's pretty much the same, but less flexibility as you can only redeem against travel.


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