# Can company fire employee if he declines to work on weekend?



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Can company fire full time employee (working in Ontario) if he declines to work on weekend?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

A company can fire any employee, at any time, for any reason. 

There are specific rules and lots of case law around hours of work. Consult an employment lawyer for much more specific guidance. 

In general, employers can change the terms and conditions of work as required for business purposes. 

Signed, someone who has fired people and has dealt with employment law in response to an (unsuccessful) wrongful termination complaint.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> A company can fire any employee, at any time, for any reason.
> 
> There are specific rules and lots of case law around hours of work. Consult an employment lawyer for much more specific guidance.
> 
> ...


Sure, and an employee can file for a wrongful dismissal complaint. You do need to speak to an employment lawyer though. If you have a contract in writing it can help.

In general an employer cannot change the terms and conditions of work unless agreed upon by the employee.

Signed, somebody who has filed one and won.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> A company can fire any employee, at any time, for any reason.


but it won't be 'Just Cause for dismissal without notice'?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I said that in such a provocative way because I have experience managing people, including hiring and firing. 

The reality is that employers can hire and fire at will, subject to the limits of any applicable legislation.

Whether or not a terminated employee files a wrongful dismissal suit is a separate matter entirely. 

You aren't going to get good answers in a forum like this. If you have concerns, you should contact the Ministry of Labour and/or an employment lawyer.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I don't think we have enough data about the situation. This could constitute constructive dismissal if it is a sudden unexpected change after many years.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I think MoneyGal is on the money as usual. 

The only answer to whether a dismissal for this reason would be deemed unjust is "It Depends" on a lot of things - such as: is there a collective bargaining agreement; is there an employment contract; was there an implied agreement about hours of work in the past; what are the expected norms in your industry & occupation; are there unavoidable business reasons for the change; etc.

From a quick read of the Ontario Labour web site http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/termination.php

this sounds as though it would be classified as a constructive dismissal if you refused to agree to the change, not a wrongful dismissal, but what remedy you might find is very vague. They warn you that constructive dismissal cases can be very complex, which implies you might need a labour lawyer.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

When I worked at Nortel, lots of people were dismissed for different reasons.

In my area, there was no union agreement to protect you, as we were
hired as engineers/professionals and non-managerial staff, on our merits and usefullness to the company.
We each had a job description and a company department expectation defined on paper in our personnel file, that we had to sign after each successful performance interview. 
This was done on a yearly, or in case of newly hired, on a 6 month basis. 

For those that didn't "pull their weight" by agreeing to help out when requested by management (ie: on weekends, or in afterhours "work crisis" situations), these "incidents" would be recorded by your immediate manager, on your personal performance file, and brought up on the next personal review of your achievements. 

If the impact of your refusal to work beyond the standard work week was
serious enough to affect some aspect of the company's line of business,
(even in some minor way), you could be even placed on a short list of employees that might even be "trimmed" when the next downsizing occurred. 

If you didn't get a favourable review because of this and other performance
issues, you needed to watch yourself. 
Your willingness as a "team player" to help out when needed would be
somewhat undermined at that point. If you didn't pull a rabbit out the
hat for the company on the next review cycle, and instead got two bad reviews
in a row because of that....you would become history! 

I don't think any labour relations lawyer can help you in a case, where one's productivity doesn't measure up to where the company management thinks it should be, where there is some kind of performance "measuring stick" they can use for your job description/title. They can find ways to get rid of you.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Generally speaking, an employer has the right to determine the hours of work, up to the maximum allowed by legislation.

On the issue of terminations in general, employers need to carefully document the steps of "progressive discipline" they applied, to justify termination as the only appropriate remedy.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Money Gal is absolutely right. 

A company has the right to fire anyone at any time. 

You have the right to file suit if you 

a) have the money for a lawyer

or

b) you can go to the labour board

Whether or not you win is another matter. In any case it should not go on your resume any future employer will not want you. If you work in a close knit industry you should be aware that people talk. 

In any case, it takes a long long time to get a judgement or win at the Labour Board. 

If you think this is happening or could happen then copy all documentation to support your case. Print any emails very covertly on the interoffice system. This is what saved my butt when I went to the labour board and fought with EI. 

In my case, the employer changed hours of work so that I no longer had two consecutive days off and increased my hours, then changed a company policy about rental commissions so that all commissions (already held back for three months) would be retroactively deducted from your pay if the tenant didn't work out during the entire first year lease. This policy change was made after a full year, and all the rental agents got about half their paycheck one month. 

I was also in charge of preparing the commission reports for all the rental agents and...was really surprised on day to find my co-worker looking for a job in the paper. Her commissions should have been $1800 to $2000. I asked her why she was looking for a job and she said she needed money, I asked her why? as she had all these fat commission checks coming. She told me that she was only getting $500-$600 per month. So the boss was shorting her commission pay. I asked to see her stub and she showed it to me personally. 

Next a male co-worker was complaining about his pay and even though he was a recent hire and I was training him, he was making more than anyone else in the office by $400 per month. The only difference with him and his duties was that he had a penis. 

Once all the facts were out I asked to be laid off and the boss agreed. I gave him two weeks and skipped out of the place. He wouldn't give me my separation slip, and my final pay was less than half what it should have been. He wanted me to sign off on an additional $1200 worth of commission as he couldn't give me my separation slip without paying me in full and those commission monies wouldn't be due and payable for 3 months. 

The government disagreed with him. I gave them his personal cell phone number. When he did produce the separation slip he wrote quit on it. Fortunately I had multiple emails about the changing of hours, the promised promotion, the initial amount he had agreed to pay me, the amount he was actually paying me, all the rentals I had done. Most of these were emails from him complimenting me for a job well done and then emails with me telling him he couldn't increase my hours or change the commission structure.

I won. It took 6 months though and I didn't even make it to court before he settled. 

I also won with EI and that also took 6 months. 

Now I was aware that he had done this to every employee he had fired but I also thought it was stupid of him to pick a fight like this with me. I was his legal rep after all and he had often commented on my dogged persistence.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I'd really like the OP to come back with more info. Is this a call you saturday morning to come in saturday afternoon kind of thing? A long term changing of hours? A once in a while thing or what? 

I had a boss that often would call me in the afternoon to come in that night (my night off). It seemed to happen on a weekly basis. Keep in mind though, I was never actually "on call". It got to the point that everyday I'd have a drink or two just so I could say I couldn't come in.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I would like to think everyone is reasonable in this world ,maybe before having to lose your job you can try to discuss your situation and why you cannot work with your boss.My friend was in similar situation delivering appliances when he was told he 'HAS' to work every Saturday.He has a court order that gives him custody of the kids only every other weekend so it was impossible for him to work on the weekend he had the kids.His boss made concessions so he only worked every other weekend.Before you risk your job please consider how easy it will be to get another job with same benefits , pay etc.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> A company has the right to fire anyone at any time.
> 
> You have the right to file suit if you
> a) have the money for a lawyer
> ...


Whew! Long story "B"! Your getting as bad (or good) as me, in longwinded
explanations! 

Your case was different. Every case is different. That's why sometimes you
have to fight getting fired (or dismissed as the case may be). If you get
dismissed for failing to meet performance objectives that you signed up
to..that would be hard one to fight. 

Same with being "dismissed with just cause", where the employer gave the employee 2 or 3 documented warnings and the employee continued with the same behaviour.

Some of these would be drinking on the job,stealing from the employer,
misappropriation of company property, giving out intellectual property
to third parties which could comprimise the employers business,
or abusing others in the workplace, such as sexual harrassment etc. 
These you probably would have a hard time fighting even with a lawyer.

But in documented cases, where the employer and employee disagree on
renumeration or things of that nature, you would probably have a case.

One example is the former CEO of Hydro One, that was dismissed for undisclosed reasons at 2.2 million annual salary
(Wow! now there is a "money gal"..I should be looking for..)
She sued over severance pay entitlement and won.

Here is a rather scathing editorial about her.
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/connie_woodcock/2010/06/11/14359881.html

Recently she was back look for more gold in regards to her pension 
entitlements.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

So I'm curious to know whether she won her law suit, Carverman. I googled it and found lots of references to the case, but nothing about the results. Does that mean it's still winding its way through the courts?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> So I'm curious to know whether she won her law suit, Carverman. I googled it and found lots of references to the case, but nothing about the results. Does that mean it's still winding its way through the courts?


She lost her initial Superior Court " I want MORE monthly pension!" case, citing her Charter of Rights were violated by Hydro One. Trial judge disagreed as she was getting a substantial monthly pension already, and the court felt that this was purely an economic issue as she was already getting the maximum set by Hydro One. The earlier "fat cat" pension arrangements set by the old Ontario Hydro, was stripped away when they broke up the horribly run Ontario Hydro money pit into two entities (Hydro One and Ontario Power Generation (OPG). 

It might still be before the Ontario Appeals court as those cases can 
take a year or sometimes even two, before being heard. 
But, I'm sure that the "church lady" is not starving on her $25K a month pension.

Here is a more comprehensive story on her "gold digging" history and
why she was dismissed.
http://www.kenoradailyminerandnews.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2624187&archive=true

No wonder our hydro rates have gone up! That stranded debt charge appears to be something that may never paid off...we are paying her pension ($307K per year) and for others like her that may be still collecting the old rate of ($397K per year)


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I shouldn't have read that article - it just infuriated me. Why isn't the woman in jail? Surely the gross misuse of her credit card alone constitutes theft!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> I shouldn't have read that article - it just infuriated me. Why isn't the woman in jail? Surely the gross misuse of her credit card alone constitutes theft!


She was a lawyer initially, so that may be in her nature. I'm not saying that
all lawyers are cut from the same cloth, 99% are very good at their work,and honest. 
But there is always the 1%ers.

I guess this case comes down to BREACH OF CONTRACT/ENTITLEMENT vs GREED
maybe? Certainly, if I was a minister of the cloth, I would be embarrassed to have my name publicized in the newspaper articles all over Ontario, characterized by everyone in a very unfavorable light.

She only worked there for a few months before she was dismissed by the
Ernie Eves gov't. 
Now, she's probably making around $60K salary as a minister and collecting $307K from the Ontario gov't (Hydro One? or old Ontario Hydro DB pension plan?)..and feels that still isn't enough. 

And I'm probably helping to pay for her pension, (and other Hydro execs like her), with the DRC added to my bill..the old Ontario Hydro stranded debt
"reduction" charge, that should have been paid off within 10 years and 
will probably go on indefinitely as a "cash cow" for the Ontario Gov't.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/610019--just-cause-is-tough-to-prove-for-employer

The amounts of settlement can be very substantial.

I have a friend who ended up settling for enough to buy a franchised business in cash.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

As Moneygal has stated, employers can always get rid of employees. However, most are savvy enough that they would likely not state that the reason was due to refusal to work on weekends. In this economy, most companies have slow periods. My previous employer, simply waited for such times to remove anyone who made "waves" about employment conditions. You can't really sue when on a "temporary layoff" and the employer would simply count on the employee eventually moving on. And that's almost always what happens. In over 25 years of regularly practicing this tactic this employer was only sued once. (The employee was successful, but I don't believe that the payout was very large.) Suing is both expensive and stressful. Despite the odd spectacular case one reads about, most laid-off workers simply can't afford it either financially or emotionally. This particular tactic was so successful in keeping people "on their toes" that some were working extra time and through breaks at no charge. I've never heard of such a situation when I was in BC, but based on stories I've heard anecdotally, it seems relatively common in the private-sector in Ontario.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Most large Corporations won't allow management make termination decisions, without the explicit approval from their legal departments.

There is a reason for it.

Smart lawyers on the other side, who not only would seek appropriate compensation, which could include full pay until a comparable job is found, but also can require top management to attend the trial, to explain the Corporate policy on terminations, provide documentation of the progressive steps in discipline that were applied, and even provide the documentation of all terminations by the company, so that a test of relevancy could be applied.

I know supervisors who didn't bother seeking the opinion of the legal department and disciplined or terminated employees. The employee was settled with and the supervisor had "do not promote" stamped on their forehead.


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