# Russian plane with Red Army choir crashes onroute to Syria



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Not known if terrorism, mechanical or pilot error is the cause, but a Russian Tupelov TU-154 airliner built in 1983 and renovated in 2014, has crashed into the Black sea after takeoff from Sochi on route to a Russian air base in Syria for New Years celebratiion. There were 92 people on board. 60 were member of the Red Army choir,others of the Russian media and reporters. There are no surviviors.

The black boxes on this older plane don't have location transponders, so it will be a difficult task to locate them
at the bottom of the sea as the plane disintegrated on impact. Recovery operations for the bodies is ongoing.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...ms-were-known-as-kremlins-singing-weapon.html


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

carverman said:


> Not known if terrorism, mechanical or pilot error is the cause, but a Russian Tupelov TU-154 airliner built in 1983 and renovated in 2014, has crashed into the Black sea after takeoff from Sochi on route to a Russian air base in Syria for New Years celebratiion. There were 92 people on board. 60 were member of the Red Army choir,others of the Russian media and reporters. There are no surviviors.
> 
> The black boxes on this older plane don't have location transponders, so it will be a difficult task to locate them
> at the bottom of the sea as the plane disintegrated on impact. Recovery operations for the bodies is ongoing.
> ...


Last evening there was a hockey championship final game played in Moscow .Canada beat Finland to win the tournament. After the game who should give a little speech,but a short well-groomed smiling Vladimir Putin himself. There was great cheers from the audience. He mentioned how Canada invented hockey something the Russians wouldn't admit before. There was no cat-calls from the crowd as there would be in a Western audience. No vocal disapproval in this crowd.

He appeared upbeat and didn't even mention the plane crash. It's as if their whole society is built on lies , complicity and make-believe.
Everyone is pretending that things are working out and that they live in the best of all possible worlds.

The real question is who is to blame. It is doubtful the Russian people will ever learn the truth.
For sure nobody will point a finger at the Putin regime.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

> He appeared upbeat and didn't even mention the plane crash.


That would be because he didn't have the time machine. When you google, always worth checking the date on your "news" items.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

OK, so this item makes the news. Aleppo mass murders (caused by the Russians) - ditto. Samantha Powers and Obama regularly go on about mass bloodshed in Aleppo (not having moved a finger to stop it). Putin and Iranian mullahs are diligently ignoring the empty words. Yet many atrocities don't get even that level of attention. 

Only a week ago, 38 people were slaughtered in Istanbul, 25 Coptic people in Cairo, 48 in the Yemeni city of Aden, 56 in a busy market in Madagali, Nigeria, by two girls with explosive belts, and finally, 29 more in Mogadishu, Somalia, 10 in Jordan.

Such mass murders are routinely committed by islamists. Not one of these was the focus of any newsreels on CNN, CBC or BBC; most were not even mentioned. The attack in Jordan got a mention because a Canadian woman got killed. Unless the attack is in Europe or N America, nobody seems to care at all. 

In fact, even purely selfish people should care. It wasn't that long ago that the islamist threat seemed negligible in places like Nigeria and France.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

wraphter said:


> Last evening there was a hockey championship final game played in Moscow .Canada beat Finland to win the tournament. After the game who should give a little speech,but a short well-groomed smiling Vladimir Putin himself.


Important detail there. It's axiomatic that short people cannot be trusted ؟


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mordko said:


> OK, so this item makes the news. Aleppo mass murders (caused by the Russians) - ditto.
> 
> In fact, even purely selfish people should care. It wasn't that long ago that the islamist threat seemed negligible in places like Nigeria and France.


Well it is(was) a plane crash, and like every plane crash around the world, it gets reported in the world media. 
In this case, it was the famous Red Army Chorus on that plane. 
Not known is if the pilots reported any problem to the tower before they crashed, or it just disappeared from radar..indicating a bomb or missile or something else that may have happened to cause it to crash.

If, and when they recover the black boxes, they may know better after analysis, but this incident indicates that flying any airline over Europe is a cause for concern and especially Russian ones. This crash occurred jsu TWO
minutes after takeoff from Sochi, so whether the plane was able to achieve it's altitude and course is
doubtful. A stinger missile can bring down a low flying aircraft very easy, fired from a boat on the black Sea
near the Sochi airport. 

But then how much can we believe Putin and the Russian media when they try to cover up details.



> Officials s*ought to squelch speculation that the crash might have been caused* by a bomb planted on board or a portable air defence missile.





> But some experts remained skeptical, noting that the c*rew would have reported any technical glitch.*
> "Possible malfunctions ... certainly wouldn't have prevented the crew from reporting them," Vitaly Andreyev, a former senior Russian air traffic controller, told RIA Novosti, adding that an "*external impact" was the most likely reason.*





> Alexander Gusak, a former chief of the FSB special forces unit, *also hinted at security breaches at Chkalovsky and said that even a much more secure Sochi airport could be vulnerable*.
> "It's possible to penetrate any facility. It depends on your skills," Gusak told Dozhd TV.
> Russian planes have been brought down previously in terror attacks.





> Evidence of a bombing of a Syria-bound military flight would badly embarrass the Kremlin, highlighting *Russia's extreme vulnerability to attacks even as it boasts its success in Syria after Aleppo fell into President Bashar Assad's hands.
> *





http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/kremlin...ck-possibility-in-russian-jet-crash-1.3217598


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

It was soon after the takeoff. The plane (old Tu154) struggled to gain altitude, either because of overloading or technical failure. Old Russian passenger planes crash all the time, I lost a friend when Lokomotiv Yaroslavl went down in a small Yak a couple of years ago.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

In fact there was another crash this year in Rostov, also with major loss of life but didn't have the orchestra or propagandists on board so didn't get coverage in the west.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mordko said:


> It was soon after the takeoff. The plane (old Tu154) struggled to gain altitude, either because of overloading or technical failure. Old Russian passenger planes crash all the time, I lost a friend when Lokomotiv Yaroslavl went down in a small Yak a couple of years ago.





> Weight Winner: Boeing 727
> The Boeing weighs 23,200 pounds less than the Tupolev.
> 
> Relative to Class Averages:
> ...


 Icing on the wings? Even with an older vintage aircraft it would have been equipped with de-icer boots on the leading edge of the wings and
'with 3 engines...hard to believe it was struggling for altitude.
http://planes.axlegeeks.com/l/524/Tupolev-Tu-154M#performance&s=2AeyVp&st=Ejvh4B

Also they claim it was good weather at time of takeoff at Sochi. The plane had flown from Moscow with the same number of passengers. 

It could have also been "payback" by ISIS for the Russians bombing them in Aleppo.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Mukhang pera said:


> Important detail there. It's axiomatic that short people cannot be trusted ؟


Not axiomatic but shortness is suggestive of increased tendency toward criminality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/11/books/11crime.html



> Poverty, greed, anger, jealousy, pride, revenge. These are the usual suspects when it comes to discussing the causes of crime. In recent years, however, economists have started to investigate a different explanation for criminal activity:* physical attributes.*
> 
> A small band of economists has been studying how height, weight and beauty affect the likelihood of committing — or being convicted of — a crime.* Looking at records from the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries, they have found evidence that shorter men are 20 to 30 percent more likely to end up in prison than their taller counterparts,* and that obesity and physical attractiveness are linked to crime.


Who could doubt Putin is a criminal: a murderer,a war criminal, and a really big thief ?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

wraphter said:


> Not axiomatic but shortness is suggestive of increased tendency toward criminality.


Say no more. Pass that on to immigration authorities. No one under 6 feet need apply. 

Too bad they did not know that when my wife snuck in, literally under the radar, at 4'11" and 90 lb. Although I think her current employer is happy she did not get weeded out. She is the only one on her crew small enough to squeeze into a certain piece of equipment for servicing instead of having to take it apart.

"...obesity and physical attractiveness are linked to crime." Again, immigration authorities need to have a rule regarding max body mass index and have strict guidelines as to "physical attractiveness". Then they'll be in a position to deal with some applications thus:

Citizenship and Immigration Canada​ Ottawa, Ontario, Canada​December 26, 2016

Dear Applicant,

We have now completed our review of your application for permanent residence in Canada. 

The panel was most impressed by your outstanding academic and professional achievements and contributions to the communities in which you have lived. As well, we recognize that you have a high net worth and you have demonstrated that you are likely to succeed in establishing a manufacturing business in Canada, creating many jobs for Canadians. We also accept that your manufactured product shows much promise of being competitive in the global marketplace and a substantial likelihood of generating significant export revenues for Canada.

While you have scored almost the maximum 1,200 points under our Comprehensive Ranking System, we nevertheless regret to inform you that your application has been declined. After anxious consideration of the matter, the panel is of the unanimous view that you are too short, too fat and too ugly to be admissible to Canada. These are irremediable obstacles to your application receiving further consideration.

We wish you every success in your future endeavours, anywhere but in Canada.

Yours truly,


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

wraphter said:


> Last evening there was a hockey championship final game played in Moscow .Canada beat Finland to win the tournament. After the game who should give a little speech,but a short well-groomed smiling Vladimir Putin himself. There was great cheers from the audience. He mentioned how Canada invented hockey something the Russians wouldn't admit before. There was no cat-calls from the crowd as there would be in a Western audience. No vocal disapproval in this crowd.
> 
> He appeared upbeat and didn't even mention the plane crash. It's as if their whole society is built on lies , complicity and make-believe.
> Everyone is pretending that things are working out and that they live in the best of all possible worlds.
> ...


If I'm right that this hockey event was on May.22 2016 not Dec.
I may be wrong so can you make it clear this information? (link?)

If the news item was leading wrong then it should be fixed.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^you are right. I have no idea how he time warped something that so obviously didn't happen yesterday.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

The height effect applies to men not women. In fact some research says short women earn above average wages.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...s-short-people-are-dumb-poor-criminals/56372/



> There are plenty of studies that claim it pays to be tall. A 2004 report found that each inch of height amounts to a salary increase of about $789 per year (controlling for gender, weight and age). Another concluded that taller people are flat out smarter. Indeed, no American president has been below average height since 1888.
> 
> Update: *Another study finds that shorter women make more money.* Bakadesuyo concludes: "Looks like men get rewarded for what is deemed as masculine and women get rewarded for what is seen as feminine. Seems to make sense. I didn't say it was fair, I just said it made sense."


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

I made a mistake on the date of the hockey game. I was watching it on television last night and didn't realize it was taped.

I didn't do it on purpose.

I don't follow hockey that closely.

Your use of the word 'warped' says more about you than me.

I guess its payback time .


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

wraphter said:


> The height effect applies to men not women. In fact some research says short women earn above average wages.
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/business...s-short-people-are-dumb-poor-criminals/56372/


How about fat and/or ugly. Are those of universal application?


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

wraphter said:


> I made a mistake on the date of the hockey game. I was watching it on television last night and didn't realize it was taped.
> 
> I didn't do it on purpose.
> 
> ...


Thanks. People make a mistake so as I. :rugby:
It would be nice to make less of the confusion with a follow-up.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

wraphter said:


> I made a mistake on the date of the hockey game. I was watching it on television last night and didn't realize it was taped.
> 
> I didn't do it on purpose.
> 
> ...


LOL........don't feel bad. My son dropped over and turned on the game. While we talked and watched, I said I can remember when these games meant something, but now I never heard anything about his tournament. Small wonder.............if it was 7 months ago.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

wraphter said:


> Your use of the word 'warped' says more about you than me.
> 
> I guess its payback time .


I take it that English isn't your first language or you are not a fan of the Rocky Horror Picture show or science fiction.

Time warp can be defined as the following from the free dictionary site:

A hypothetical discontinuity or distortion occurring in the flow of time that would move events from one time period to another or suspend the passage of time.

In other words he was making a reference to the fact you mention something happening the other night even though it was months ago.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

wraphter said:


> Not axiomatic but *shortness is suggestive of increased tendency toward criminality.
> [/B
> 
> Who could doubt Putin is a criminal: a murderer,a war criminal, and a really big thief ?*


*
He is a criminal (came from the KGB) and also one of the richest criminals in Russian history. It is claimed he has
over 50 BILLION (US) tucked away in secret bank accounts, most of it coming from payoffs from his friends that
got lucrative contracts for the Sochi Olympic venues....the most expensive winter Olympics to date.

There was a song about short people (it's supposed to be a comical spoof and he does mention that they are the same as "you and I"
...but nobody on the radio will ever play it...for fear of being charged for discrimination 



Short People 
by Randy Newman (composer)

Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
To live
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet

Well, I don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Round here
Short people are just the same
As you and I
(A fool such as I)
All men are brothers
Until the day they die
(It's a wonderful world)
Short people got nobody
Short people got nobody
Short people got nobody
To love*


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