# Creative Eviction Solution Needed



## dutchboy (Nov 2, 2012)

Good Afternoon CMF Memebers

I am currently renting out both units of a duplex in Ontario. The basement unit is the tenant I am looking to evict because they are smoking drugs inside the unit (not just mj). We just signed a new One Year Lease in August 2012 so I am hoping to get them out before then. Plan B is to wait until then and move my son in to get them out but I really do not want to wait that long. 

The good news it that they are still paying rent. The bad news is that the upstairs tenants are threatening to move out if this basement tenant cannot be controlled. They have called the police on the basement tenants multiple times due to noise/drug smells. 

All comments/advice is appriciated, again, I am looking to get them out asap!

Thank you


----------



## dutchboy (Nov 2, 2012)

Okay, I think I will try to evict them on the grounds that they are interfering with the reasonable enjoyment of the upstairs tenants. Has anyone done this before? Also if anyone knows of easy mistakes landlords have made in the past when filing for this that would be good. 

Thanks


----------



## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

This is easy pease. First, have you ASKED them politely to leave? I assume no, so set up a mutually convenient time to talk to them in person in a casual setting. Don't tell them why, just say that we need to meet in the next 5 days.

Try to have them sign an agreement to end the tenancy early sheet. It's a standard form you can find online and print. Bring it with you, agree on a fair date for move-out.

If they wont go for that based on your reasons (be honest). Be firm and be clear. Tell them you'll stop at nothing (don't get angry, state facts) that you're going to have them leave, so let's just be reasonable and we can both move on without any hard feelings. Say you're going to lose your upper tenant because of this and this is the reality.

If they won't sign the agreement, then start offering cash. $500 if they sign payable when their last article is removed from the apartment (sooner the better). If that doesn't work offer $750 or $1k if they can be out in 2 weeks or less. As the value rises, the timeline shrinks. You'll need time to get in a do repairs and find a new tenant. 

Come with a 24 hour notice of entry to leave on the door so you can inspect for damages. This might affect your negotiation, but if they wont politely leave, paying them is your best recourse. 

Using the eviction process is costly and time consuming. You wont win this way. This is your best bet.


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

If Chris L's method doesn't work then I'd start documenting. The upstairs tenant needs to complain numerous times in writing and then you need to issue letter to the offending tenant to stop. Then you start with the N-5


----------



## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

Why don't you put a proper floor and ceiling between the units? Also separate ventilation system.


----------



## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Is it worth the expense? I think you'd spend more money doing that than you would lose by losing a month or two of rent and/or paying the basement tenants to leave.

I also wouldn't want to pay for that kind of work so that I could enable my tenants to smoke hard drugs.

Would be nice though, whatever the cause of the smell would be. I lived in the main and 2nd floors of a rented house for two years; the basement suite had a separate entrance but there was one heat/ventilation system for the whole house. A few months before leaving, a different lady from another country moved into the basement. I had no problem with her personally or with her background, but the aromas from her cooking were strong and unpleasant when they wafted up into the upper levels of the house early in the evening.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Check out the Landlord and Tenant laws. If a tenant is breaking the law (drugs) that alone is grounds for eviction. Proving it is something else. You need to consult a lawyer experienced in real estate and rental law.

If you already have a record of police calls that could be evidence, depending what the police found. If they found drugs I don't know why the tenants were not arrested. This will need to be looked into.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Give 24 h notice for entry for maintenance, see if you can see any evidence of illegal activity.


----------



## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

^I think the above suggestion is highly unethical and a gross violation of the tenant's expectation of privacy. You may suspect them of illegal activity but they still have rights.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Ehhh, it's not completely above board, but then neither is using drugs in a shared residence.


----------



## balexis (Apr 4, 2009)

Even if he enters and finds illegal activity, what would be the next step? take pictures? send the cops? I doubt that this in and of itself will help speed up the eviction.


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Make sure everybody is out of the property... burn it to the ground. Problem solved.


----------



## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

Isn't there a provision of the Act that allows eviction if the landlord or one of their family intends to occupy the unit?

Do that. I don't know how long you have to occupy the unit... but perhaps just telling the tenant that would be enough to make them leave without any fuss.


----------



## cldellow (Feb 16, 2012)

CJOttawa said:


> Isn't there a provision of the Act that allows eviction if the landlord or one of their family intends to occupy the unit?
> 
> Do that. I don't know how long you have to occupy the unit... but perhaps just telling the tenant that would be enough to make them leave without any fuss.


It permits ending the tenancy at the end of the lease term. See http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_06r17_e.htm#BK56

In this case, that's in August of next year as the OP has pointed out.


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I hate to be negative about the criminal activity but last year in one of the buildings I managed we had an attempted murder and the other tenant did testify, and it took nine months to evict the perpetrator. It's unfortunate but the increase in tenant rights has meant the we do not have the ability to protect other tenants from people who would stab them with a 12 inch butcher knife.

Marijuana is for all intents and purposes legal in Canada now... hard to base a case on that although a good bluff is different.


----------



## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Berubeland said:


> Marijuana is for all intents and purposes legal in Canada now... hard to base a case on that although a good bluff is different.


I can't comment on the other stuff that may be smoked but we live in a world of unrealistic concern about the use of marijuana. Many states in the US are finally coming to grips with this issue, but up here in Canada our views are still in the stone age (no pun intended). Anyway, if it is just marijuana, the other tenants should simply respect the fact that these tenants have a lifestyle different from there own and get over it or move.

Keep in mind that many of those people who still live in the stone age on this issue will simply assume that one who smokes marijuana must also smoke crack, crystal meth and an assortmant of others. When a little smoke is mixed with some other cooking odor they will think the worst. Unless they saw the other drugs in use (which I doubt), you should understand that in the real world, it is an extreme rarity that the marijuana smoker also indulges in the harder drugs. In other words, it is only a small minority of marijuana smokers that feel a need to move on to harder drugs. Most of the participants are content with the pot they have.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I took the 'drug smells' comment to mean crack, and not pot.

Then again, I wouldn't be happy sharing a building with anyone who smoked anything. Smoke stinks and smoking in a house creates very poor indoor air quality.


----------



## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

From the original post:



> they are smoking drugs inside the unit (not just mj)


mj meaning marijuana, of course. Which removes the possibility of it being legal.

Optsy, I understand the idea of respecting others lifestyles, but the basement tenants have to respect others' lifestyles as well. 

I don't have anything against people who smoke pot. I have friends who do. But even if it were just pot... it would still be negatively affecting the quality of life of their upstairs tenants. It is the downstairs tenants who are creating the disturbance, so they should be the ones to correct the problem. Not the upstairs tenants, and not the landlord.

In this case it is worse, because harder drugs are being used.


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't care if people smoke pot. In fact when I encounter this problem in the properties I manage I ask them to smoke it outside. Because if you don't smoke it, it stinks to high heaven and you're living in rented & shared accommodation. FYI regular cigarettes are also allowed to be smoked...outside. Because they also stink the place up. 

Also I have asthma so I don't smoke pot or it's other relatives but that doesn't mean I haven't in the past or have any particular thoughts about it. . 

Realistically, I have no problem with people having a good time, drinking and smoking whatever they like. When it starts to interfere with the other's tenants rights to breathe unpolluted air, then I'm forced to do something, by law. As a landlord my preference is to completely avoid all these types of losing situations. 

How do you win in this scenario? 

If you tell the pot smoker to smoke outside, they'll be upset and may sue you for their human rights. 

If you tell the complainer to buzz off, they'll b upset and may sue you for their human rights. 

I wish the people who came up with these conflicting laws would clarify them, without all us landlords getting sued from every direction...


----------



## dutchboy (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks for the replies folks. 

So I have looked into the process for evicting on the grounds of them interfering with the reasonable enjoyment of the upstairs tenants but it seems like that will be a lengthy process without a guaranteed eviction. 

I do like the idea of essentially bribing him to get out, I can't say I have tried it yet but he seems like he is familiar with the court process for evictions so this may be the best/quickest course of action. 

Also the upstairs tenants are getting very anxious/ full-out paraniod about this guy as he has started to ramp up his warm-hearted behaviour so we may loose them if we wait till august to move my son into the unit. 

I will have to sit down with the downstairs tenant and have a good ol' chat, maybe some benjamins will indeed do the trick.


----------



## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

dutchboy said:


> Thanks for the replies folks.
> 
> So I have looked into the process for evicting on the grounds of them interfering with the reasonable enjoyment of the upstairs tenants but it seems like that will be a lengthy process without a guaranteed eviction.
> 
> ...


Good for you! Everyone has their price....don't negotiate too freely and NEVER pay until the unit is vacant. Make sure you bring your notice to vacate a tenancy early. This is a specific from you can get online from the tribunal. Have this handy and make them SIGN it then and there. You can have another contract agreeing on the cash for leaving. Nothing illegal about paying someone to leave so long as it's not made under duress.


----------



## caru_68 (Jan 23, 2013)

its simply tell them that you need the basement for one of your children (if you have any) and give them 90 days notice. and see you later ..


----------



## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

Find a friend with a german shepherd. Tell your tenants that your friend is a K9 officer and needs leave his retired police dog in the yard while he does blah, blah, nearby. Please don't bother the dog as he is highly trained and a sniffer dog, please don't feed etc. Give a few days heads up and say that this may go on from time to time as needed.


----------



## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

You said creative.


----------

