# Retirees: How to determine the amount of investments to sell to support annual spend?



## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

Sorry, kind of a broad question but hoping you can bear with me.

Hoping the retirees on the board can provide insight from their personal experience on how they determine the amount of investments they sell (any account) and/or withdraw from out of a registered account each year to support their annual spend. And how do you go about the sales and registered account withdrawals (ie Do you do it once a year at the beginning of the year, end of the year, multiple times, etc)?

Do you just sell as needed?

Do you do some annual planning and then sell based on your estimated spend amount for the upcoming year?
What do you do if you encounter additional unexpected expenses? Do you keep an extra cash float or do you just sell more investments?

Do you just sell a set amount annually? Eg. Every year sell 4% of your investments and just keep that in cash type savings?

Do you vary the amount you sell based on how well your investment portfolio did the previous year?

What do you do with your extra cash if you under spend for the year? Do you just keep it as cash savings and use it as part of your spend calculations next year?

Personally, I'm looking to have my dividends to provide for a base of my retirement income (with some selling of these stocks for housekeeping and general diversity) and supplement it with RRSP, Pension, and/or TFSA withdrawals. I'm not sure how much to withdraw from these latter accounts each year and want to balance portfolio survivability with not dying as a wealthy person in the graveyard.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Retired 11.5 years. Not yet RRIFing my RRSP but when I do, there will then be the minimum annual withdrawals. I do not touch my TFSA and hope never to do so.

My cash flow sources are based firstly on my monthly DB pension and CPP payments, and then is added my monthly dividends, interest and other distributions. I have a pretty good handle on what that is year to year so just from looking at an annual Quicken report, or my last year's T1 tax return. If I need more cash to match my spend, I will sell something from one of my non-reg brokerage accounts. It may be a partial sell (most likely) or a complete sell (rarely), but no less than $10k so as to make my $10 commissions meaningless (in cost). Any extra cash from an asset sale gets rolled into a HISA account where it sits until needed. 

I have a fairly aggressive asset allocation of about 85% equity so I keep about 2 years of cash flow needs in my HISA to handle any major bumps, circa 2008/2009 (to avoid selling equities in a down market).

I intuitively, if not explicitly, use the VPW method (look it up on www.finiki.org if you wish) to determine how much my portfolio ($$) could be sold to supplement my pension income. That is a variable amount each year depending on portfolio value at the beginning of each year and asset allocation mix. Since I know what my portfolio spins off in cash (dividends, interest, distributions), I then know how much capital I can sell to stay within the overall ceiling. I have yet to need to sell as much capital as I could using VPW methodology. Life is good.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

There's probably a good formula disciplined people will follow but here's what I have done the last 9 years...I check my Visa bill at the end of the month & transfer enough to cover the total plus a few k out of my investment account. We have yet to touch our TSFA's or RRSP's although I really need to get at setting up a RIFF..(was supposed to this summer but too much fun,parties etc.)

I don't have FU money but enough that I don't worry too much about the math yet.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

AltaRed: Thanks for sharing.
May I ask what your plan is for your TFSA? I kind of started a similar thread earlier about what people's end game was for their TFSA. I see myself regularly adding to it too but when do you ever "get to use it"? Or is it going to be part of your legacy?
I love the idea of building up a cash buffer in retirement. I think I need to add something more structured like that to the plan. 
Have to read about VPW methodology in more detail later. 

Eder: Thanks also for sharing. It sounds like you're doing monthly transfers. Any pros and cons you've found doing it that way? Eg. If my investments took a dip in a month, I think psychologically I'd loathe to transfer money out. Or do you vary a bit pending on market conditions?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I have sufficient funds that the TFSA will almost certainly be a legacy. That said, a lot can happen in upwards of 25 more years.

FWIW, I will always have a cash buffer approaching 6 digits in a HISA. I want flexibility in case I want to spend on a new car, exotic vacation, or whatever curve ball might come my way.

Added: VPW http://www.finiki.org/wiki/Variable_percentage_withdrawal


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I depend on my DB, CPP, and now OAS to a certain degree. OAS will have clawbacks, just not sure how much since it has only been a few months. We augment this with investment income from our HISA account as needed.. We keep cash, approaching 6 didgits in our internet HISA and no more than 10K in our bank savings account. Each Jan we transfer monies from our investment account to each of our TFSA's and to our two RESP's.

We use the HISA to transfer monies for day to day requirements in excess of our pension income and to pay our tax installments. When the HISA is eventually drained we will take a similar six figure sum from our investment accounts and transfer it to our HISA.

Our investments are managed. At the moment about 65 equities, 35 percent short term bonds (that have surprisingly done very well). No plans to reduce equity component, indeed we may increase it Sequence of returns since retiring five years ago has worked very much in our favour. Plus low inflation. Not certain what to do with our RRSPs. Decision so far is to draw down only when (based on my spouses's bd) required by law and only by the amounts required.

We typically review all of this in late November. We review our investments from a tax planning perspective and then act/plan accordingly. We are in the process or re-balancing our spousal loan accounts so that we both remain in the same incremental tax bracket.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Smart AR. We're considering holding about or > $50k in cash; always in cash in a HISA - once we "retire" - start working part-time prior to not working at all. 

I figure that is a healthy cash wedge. Thoughts?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

My Own Advisor said:


> Smart AR. We're considering holding about or > $50k in cash; always in cash in a HISA - once we "retire" - start working part-time prior to not working at all.
> 
> I figure that is a healthy cash wedge. Thoughts?


To me, the first thing is to see what cash wedge you might need to allow you to skip 'selling equities' in a down market. 

Example: If your cash flow needs are $80k per year and you get $60k from pensions and investment income.... then your annual capital exposure that you need to tap into is $20k. If you have $60k in a HISA, that allows you to avoid selling equities for up to 3 years until the equity market improves, after which time you start to sell equities again to meet cash flow deficit AND eventually replenish your HISA. That is one angle... The other one is when/if you have to make a large capital outlay for a vehicle, home reno, etc., I would have that planned out with cash-in-hand in an HISA, or at least the bulk of it set aside in some fixed income form.

Everyone's HISA wedge will depend on their circumstances and how long they want to preserve equities in a down market. Of course, there should also be other fixed income (beyond the HISA wedge) to tap into as well during that period, e.g. bonds, maturing GICs, etc.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

Good question. I retired 17 years ago and met our day to day expenses with a 55,000. PA special payment I received unit last year. These funds coupled with 22,000. PA def. Ben plan, OAP x 2, and one CPP provided more than ample income during this time. As the special payment is no longer there, I converted our RSP's to RIF's and started taking the minimum withdrawals in january of each year and simply deposit them into a high interest savings account. For day to day expenses I rely on the CPP, OAP, and Def benefit income of about $42,000. PA and when I run short I simply transfer funds from the savings.
We also have a fairly good sized investment portfolio and TFSA's consisting of Cdn $ blue chip divy stocks and which we don't touch and also have some other investments (MIC's and GIC's). The only problem with what we do is that we really don't know exactly where we are at until I reconcile everything at year end. Of course I monitor my stock investments daily. Seems to work.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Each situation will be different and depends on just what your needs are, how much and what yield in taxable accounts, how much in registered accounts, tax rate etc.

We have about enough dividend income from taxable accounts to live off. We transfer that cash to our bank accounts once a month. We withdraw the minimum required from our RRIFs in January of each year. Some of this is "in kind" and those stocks add to those in our taxable accounts. Cash goes to our TFSAs and to a savings account to cover future quarterly taxes. 

If we foresee a special large expenditure, we may sell some stock in either RRIFs or taxable accounts after first checking possible CG taxes. We try to balance any sales in taxable accounts so as to eliminate CGs. Stocks like CPG help


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

milhouse said:


> Eder: Thanks also for sharing. It sounds like you're doing monthly transfers. Any pros and cons you've found doing it that way? Eg. If my investments took a dip in a month, I think psychologically I'd loathe to transfer money out. Or do you vary a bit pending on market conditions?


I keep quite a bit of cash in my investment account mainly from my dividend streams so grabbing enough to pay the bills each month from the balance seems routine rather than routing thru a HISA although I know I'm giving up a bit of interest.

I defiantly adjust my spending according to what my returns are...these days we live pretty high on the hog, but we tighten up spending quickly if markets are falling.

Having zero debt and no fixed costs such as a house etc helps us to easily vary our spend rate.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks for sharing ian. Do you refill you HISA whenever it's drained or do you try to do it during a certain time of year?
It definitely seems like a lot of people utilize a strategy of keep a chunk of cash in a HSIA. I guess it's kind of obvious in hindsight but it kind of reinforces the idea with everyone doing it. But kind of interesting, though not necessarily surprising, to hear how large some of them are if just to provide safety for extended down times. 

Thanks for sharing also frase. Any reason why you take the min withdrawal in Jan instead of say Dec? I'm trying to figure out if there's a rhyme or reason on when. 

Thanks agent99: Yes agree, it's going to be different depending on the situation. Was just wondering if I could see any commonality across people's strategies and pluck anything info that might be applicable to my situation. I'm kind of in a similar situation with hoping to live partly off our dividends. The other thing I'm grappling with is when to convert my RRSP to a RIF. Not sure if I should to wait until 71 to convert as I wouldn't mind a bit of a regular annual stream from it to supplement the dividends. 

Eder: Thanks for the follow up. You seem to be the exception keeping cash in your investment account instead of HISA.  Most of my estimates are currently built around a standard spend but I've got to investigate if I can plan for a more variable spend as you are doing and variable withdrawal rate as AltaRed has mentioned.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is a matter of personal preference (and convenience and interest rate) where one keeps their HISA cash. It can be an HISA in an investment account, or a separate HISA in an online bank of some kind. There is no magic as to where. I get more interest having it in an online bank, but it is more convenient to just keep it in the brokerage investment account.

There is also no right answer as to when to start a RIF. If one has retired at 65 and it makes sense to start drawing down a registered account, or there is a need for funds to supplement cash flow needs, then do so. The one thing I'd leave alone is to the extent possible, keep a TFSA intact. It is the one source of investment that can keep compounding in growth with no tax consequences whatsoever. It's the last thing I would start drawing down.

As for whether one takes the RIF minimum on Jan 2nd, or December 30th may depend on a variety of things: 
1) If one needs to use the RIF minimum throughout the year, it is easiest to take it out as soon as it is needed, i.e. Jan 2nd, Apr 1st, or whatever. 
2) Taking it out as early as possible gets it done with and off one's mind
3) Taking it out as late as possible allows continued tax deferred growth within the RIF for the bulk of that year (assuming growth, rather than a market decline)
4) Taking it out at a 'gut feeling' of the height of frothy markets, i.e. market timing. Which, at best, is a 50/50 guess and not one I'd recommend
5) Take it out when, if it is GIC money, when the GIC matures and the money is available for withdrawal

Added: As to whether one forecasts their needs based on a standard spend, or a variable rate, depends mostly I think, on whether one's financial resources are tight and the budget must be highly discipline.... or there is plenty of flexibility. The old 4% SWR method of withdrawal is fraught with lots of issues because it doesn't take into account one's investment returns over a period of time, one's total resources available to fund retirment, etc. A 4% SWR could result in significant wealth left over at age 95, or virtually nothing, depending on investment returns, inflation, etc. That method is best used by people who have little self-discipline or math challenged. Once one really takes a look at VPW methodology, it will make intuitive sense that the annual withdrawal SHOULD always be variable. 

Not that I am trying to oversell that methodology. I suspect most retirees sub-consciously use a gut feel of that methodology by naturally pulling back expenses when market returns/economy is down and spending more when they feel rich after a good year. It's just that gut feel is not mathematically sound.

Lastly, changing from accumulation mode and a steady pay cheque to no pay cheque and shifting into withdrawal mode IS a major shift psychologically. It is natural to have some trepidation as that date nears, and it may take a year or two of retirement to become comfortable with the new dynamic. Each of us finds the groove that makes it work for us.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

This is my first full year of retirement so this is a helpful thread for me. I have thought about this but my plan has not yet been fully implemented or tested.

I will use the Variable Percent Withdrawal method as linked to upthread to determine what size withdrawal my portfolio can support. At the beginning of each year I will move my expected spend from my investment portfolio to an HISA, then monthly "pay" myself from the HISA to my chequing account. In the first few years I may underspend the VPW calculation. Many other withdrawal methods will leave a large estate in all but the worst economic conditions. Bogleheads has an analysis of withdrawal methods here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Withdrawal_methods. 

My portfolio is about 60% equities / 40% fixed income with the FI split among bonds and 5-year GIC ladders. The FI should be enough to weather a long stagflationary bear market like the 1970s or a crash like 2008. The GICs give certainty of available funds in the worst economic conditions (short of a total banking collapse), although with some inflation risk. A lot of people seem to plan based on the current economic and investment environment. I hope it does not happen, but I think it is short sighted to plan a 30 year or longer retirement without looking back and having a plan to deal with bad economic conditions like the 1970s or the great recession.

I also have some emergency and contingency funds. I have not decided how much to keep in an HISA for an emergency fund but I am thinking $20k. To accommodate lumpy spending on large infrequent items I have a savings fund that is intended to pay for items like new vehicle, new roof, driveway, HVAC and major appliances. I estimated their expected life and replacement cost and put aside $5k annually for them. That money is in Mawer Tax-Effective Balanced fund. If I need some of that money in a bear market I could take it from my emergency fund instead. I also have some "mad money" that I can spend on pretty much anything, like a boat, big vacation, home renovations etc. That money is in Mawer Global Equity Fund.

So I don't have a cash wedge per se. More like a fixed income wedge plus enough cash to get through up to one year. I do plan on spending my capital, otherwise I would leave a yuuuge estate, which is why I like the VPW method.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

You're asking the right questions Millhouse. 

Been retired now 3.5 years. 

I had a detailed spreadsheet for cash flows initially, that I still maintain but have switched to using the VPW method AR listed above. It is very intuitive and makes the most sense for me to look at our cash flows this way (VPW). So far we stay well below what is "suggested" our withdrawals could be (so using it as a loose guide now), because we're early in retirement, a bit conservative and arguably at a more mature point in the bull cycle. And happy with our lifestyle for the time being. Roughly 60/40 equities FI (including cash)

Our cash flows come from my wife's DB pension, dividends from unregistered, minimum withdrawals from a smallish LIF started this year, interest from near 6 figure HISA, withdrawals from RRSP sveral times as needed through year (n/[email protected]) roughly calculated to last to age 80+ (taxtips.ca has a good RRIF calculator for this). In another 7 years CPP should add to the base and will reduce RRSP withdrawals accordingly. OAS if available or partial as applicable. To date our "draw" from investments = interest/dividends/distrbutions so we're not really eating into "capital" - yet. I track our monthly spending and have a decent grip on all of this making it flow pretty well. So far it's relatively consistent year to year also with a significant portion dedicate to discretionary (travel).

We contribute to TFSA's annually and this is planned to be our final holdings. In our case no legacy planned but want to have a decent buffer for the later years plus our home. 

We hold a decent cash wedge for the exact reasons AR outlined- major purchase, surprise issue, or market drop -dividend cuts etc.-allowing rebalancing along with maturing FI, giving us some peace of mind and additional flexibility. 

So far so good and we feel thankful to be here.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

RBull said:


> I had a detailed spreadsheet for cash flows initially, that I still maintain but have switched to using the VPW method AR listed above. It is very intuitive and makes the most sense for me to look at our cash flows this way (VPW). So far we stay well below what is "suggested" our withdrawals could be (so using it as a loose guide now),


I don't think I qualified what I said earlier, but am in a similar situation. VPW tells me what I could withdraw, but I don't need to withdraw that much.... so I don't. The capital I don't need stays invested (or better said, I don't sell to get capital I don't need).


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

My approach on when to take withdrawals:

Withdraw from investments around calendar year end because that's when I set my spending and do a budget for the next year
Take withdrawals from tax-deferred accounts (RRSP, RRIF) in Dec because there will be withholding taxes and any refund of excess withholding tax will be received on that year's tax return.
Take withdrawals from non-registered accounts in Jan because if there are capital gains the tax on them will not be payable for more than a year.
Not sure yet if this would cause the CRA to want me to pay tax in installments.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

milhouse...we will fill our HISA when it is drained to about 20K or if we fear that a market correction may be in the wind. In the past the largest drain has been CRA installments, tax owing, and TFSA and RESP deposits. We did this because the HISA had grown a little as we planned a real estate transaction This Jan we will be pulling money for TFSA's and RESP's from the HISA. We could also do this if we happen to have a cash balance in our investment accounts. It really does not matter to us. Our investment accounts typically have a cash balance but this can fluctuate.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> I don't think I qualified what I said earlier, but am in a similar situation. VPW tells me what I could withdraw, but I don't need to withdraw that much.... so I don't. The capital I don't need stays invested (or better said, I don't sell to get capital I don't need).


Same here.

VPW and 4%SWR assist those approaching retirement in determining how much they may safely spend in retirement. Once there, they are still a guide, but in our case anyway, we just spend what we need/want to. 4% has always been enough and with that, our portfolio has grown at better than the inflation rate.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> I don't think I qualified what I said earlier, but am in a similar situation. VPW tells me what I could withdraw, but I don't need to withdraw that much.... so I don't. The capital I don't need stays invested (or better said, I don't sell to get capital I don't need).


Thanks for that. It's fully what I expected you to say. 

Big fan here of VPW. I was actually doing a version of it on my own spreadsheet re-entering new asset balance at beginning of year and seeing a newly outputted "draw". After looking at all kinds of withdrawal strategies I was glad to find something that was simple, made sense and appears robust in it's build.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I do not do spreadsheets. I can easily keep track of our financials by looking at the quarterly statements and keeping an eye on our burn rate. About the only thing I do, at the end of each month, add up my expenses based on my chequing account bill payments and cash withdrawals. That is a five minute exercise at most since most things go through on a credit card or an automatic withdrawal.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

Thanks for sharing also frase. Any reason why you take the min withdrawal in Jan instead of say Dec? I'm trying to figure out if there's a rhyme or reason on when. 

No reason for taking it in January but I am only getting 1.5 -2% on my RIF and get close to the same in savings.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Something to consider as well if you are a home owner is whether and when you plan to sell and bring the value of your home into the mix.
You may plan to stay in your house till you leave in a box, but the reality is many who are living longer need to move into a senior's apartment, assisted living, or long-term care.
Recent experience, where a couple were able to stay in their home until their mid 80s has now left them with more money from the sale of their house than they are likely to need. It would have been nice if they could have had this money when they were younger and able to spend it on themselves. Now it seems likely this money will go to their estate.
Not uncommon to have the house or proceeds left in the estate but still, something to consider in your plans.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We have been retired for 15 years and have gone through the phases from closely managing our spreadsheets to trying to deal with reinvesting all the cash! We withdraw from our RRIFs in mid-Nov. After 2008, we decided to back off on the close management of the investments. Leaving them alone seemed to work out just fine.

Our best post-retirement decision was to buy our snowbird condo in Mexico after 5 years. Since then our cash needs have dropped in half. So we are fans of VPW but no longer need to follow it. We spend our efforts deciding how much charities and heirs will get ahead of time.


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## Nerd Investor (Nov 3, 2015)

Experts don't agree because experts don't know when you're going to die or what your rate of return on your investments will be which are the two big unknowns that affect this decision.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Nerd Investor said:


> Experts don't agree because experts don't know when you're going to die or what your rate of return on your investments will be which are the two big unknowns that affect this decision.


+1


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## Jaberwock (Aug 22, 2012)

I transferred my RRSP to a RRIF so that I could split the income with my spouse. I am invested in dividend paying equities
I take out a fixed sum every month. I reset the monthly withdrawals every year, depending on what has happened to the value of the account. I started with an annual withdrawal rate equivalent to 5% of the RRIF value, last year I increased it to 6%.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Something to consider as well if you are a home owner is whether and when you plan to sell and bring the value of your home into the mix.
> You may plan to stay in your house till you leave in a box, but the reality is many who are living longer need to move into a senior's apartment, assisted living, or long-term care.


People who do this sell their house at the bottom of the market. I bought a house from a 101 year old woman. Suffice to say, it needed a bit of refurbishment. 

Her husband had been dead since the early 1970s and that was the last the house had been maintained, beyond shingles and I believe one coat of exterior paint.

... but the typical couple trajectory would have the husband leave the wife perhaps 5~10 years earlier. If the husband could do some light renovation and decorating in his late 60s, they could perhaps get an extra $100K for the house, which would offset some of the cost of moving to a condo or other lower maintenance situation. It doesn't cover the cost but makes it a bit more affordable, for those who can and want to do it.

As far as what to sell, that question strikes me as too vast to answer. It depends on the structure of your investments. Income investors don't necessarily have to sell anything. Growth stocks tend to have an optimal buy and an optimal sell date, so that tends to dictate the best time to liquidate, for those with the luxury of being flexible to optimize these stocks.

Another problem that I consider very real is that income investors who live well within their means, such as myself and a great deal of others on this site, may not every have to sell a single share of anything. In this case, there seems to be an emotional attachment to these companies which have produced for decades. Do you sell? What if you live for a lot longer? Maybe just keep and continue to live below your means?

What if you're used to living on $45K per year of total spend and you could spend a multiple of that for the rest of your life and still die with a nest egg that seems big to you? Do you adjust your lifestyle up to consume the money? Do you live as you are used to and donate the money?

This sort of freedom of choice adds a ton of value to life, IMO.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> To me, the first thing is to see what cash wedge you might need to allow you to skip 'selling equities' in a down market.
> 
> Example: If your cash flow needs are $80k per year and you get $60k from pensions and investment income.... then your annual capital exposure that you need to tap into is $20k. If you have $60k in a HISA, that allows you to avoid selling equities for up to 3 years until the equity market improves, after which time you start to sell equities again to meet cash flow deficit AND eventually replenish your HISA. That is one angle... The other one is when/if you have to make a large capital outlay for a vehicle, home reno, etc., I would have that planned out with cash-in-hand in an HISA, or at least the bulk of it set aside in some fixed income form.
> 
> Everyone's HISA wedge will depend on their circumstances and how long they want to preserve equities in a down market. Of course, there should also be other fixed income (beyond the HISA wedge) to tap into as well during that period, e.g. bonds, maturing GICs, etc.


That makes a great deal of sense, that aligns with my thinking...

My thinking on the $50k cash wedge was - say I have retirement expenses of $60k per year after tax. I have retirement income of $70k. This means if I needed to dip into the cash buffer I could for a few years, should my retirement income drop or become unstable. 

Our (early) retirement income will be a combination of workplace pensions + investment income prior to age 60. After age 60, CPP x2; after age 65 unless the rules change again, OAS x2. The workplace pensions would be "bond like" given their stability and the investment income would be somewhat at risk if market calamity were to ensue for years on end. 

I should mention I don't intend to spend any investment capital prior to age 60 - the goal is to "live off dividends" and distributions (from ETFs) in the early years....but.....that is largely a target/mindset right now to help me/us in our asset accumulation years reach a desired goal. Whether or not we get there is a different story of course. 

Most successful retirees how manage money well, seem to have some sort of cash buffer and/or GICs + a heavy dose of equity investments.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

As mentioned in the past, we feel we have a sufficient unsheltered strip bond ladder with maturities each year, along with CPP to cover expenses from 60-72. At 72 income from RRIF's will replace the strips. The RRSP's continue to grow till then (as designed). Unsheltered equity portfolio is being gifted away from 60-72 with flexibilty to adjust and retain some if necessary.
OAS is assumed to be zero. TSFA's not expected to be required but could be considered 'emergency' cash. 
Value of house also not considered necessary. Don't intend to leave a messy estate though so estate decluttering/downsizing will occur when appropriate as much as possible.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks for the additional responses and replies to questions. (Was out of town for a few days.) Appreciate all the bits I'm able to glean. 
Personally, I'm not factoring in our house for the purpose of funding core annual spend. Going to use it as a backup reserve to fund a retirement home if other investments can't cover it. One of my quirks is that I don't mind leaving the house to the as part of the estate.


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