# My trip to Ikea yesterday



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This was in Richmond BC.

I came prepared with the list of items to pick up and load into the car. But I still had to go to the showroom to see some things.

At one point, I was in a line up. The woman immediately behind me was wearing NO mask, and she started coughing (a wet cough). As a result, I left the line and gave up my spot, went far away to do something else instead.

In the showroom, people had apparently brought their whole families including large groups of kids. It was crowded and I couldn't believe how many children I saw.

Although Ikea limits the total number of people in the store, this doesn't account for the fact that people cluster in certain areas! One area I was walking through had such density of people that you could not walk around them... total congestion of closely packed people.

Overall a pretty scary experience and I would say that only 1/3 of people wore masks. In a place like that, absolutely 100% of people should be wearing masks. The government should start requiring 100% usage inside stores like this one.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

....not just in stores like Ikea but in ALL stores and in all public areas. Alas, you cannot fix stupid.

I really like Ikea AAA and AA batteries for my electronics-especially remote controls. Inexpensive and seem to outlast other brands.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> ....not just in stores like Ikea but in ALL stores and in all public areas. Alas, you cannot fix stupid.


If people can not control their clustering behaviour, I think it's time for the federal government to mandate 100% mask usage in stores.

We had our chance, and we've demonstrated that we are unable to control ourselves.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for mandatory masking would come from, but it seems to be done on a city basis.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

How many people did you see taken away in body bags that were not wearing masks ?


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

bgc_fan said:


> I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for mandatory masking would come from, but it seems to be done on a city basis.


 People should be making citizens arrests of the tyrants


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for mandatory masking would come from, but it seems to be done on a city basis.


The local health units in Ontario have started mandating it. The premier refused to do it citing impossible enforcement.

the mandate is rather weak. They are asking businesses to put up signs and businesses are allowed to refuse entry. If the business allows no mask, then you can still get away with not wearing one. The usual allowances around children under 2 and those with “health” problems don’t need to wear one.

if you have difficulty breathing through a mask (which doctors and nurses wear for 12 hours straight), then why are you even going out When there is a virus that attacks the lungs ?

the Facebook page of our local health unit is riddled with people asking “but is it really mandatory?”. The reality is that it is an “ask”. No legal enforcement, no fines. No Capacity to enforce.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

bgc_fan said:


> I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for mandatory masking would come from, but it seems to be done on a city basis.



So nice now that in my city that it's mandatory to wear a mask..

I went grocery shopping today and 100% wore masks including all employees. 

Before, there were many employees that didn't wear the masks. I understand as they have to wear them for 8 hours and so they eventually decide to take them off. But these are the people I want to see with masks on as they encounter so many people all day.

It's so simple. Make it a federal requirement to wear masks just like many cities like mine have done.

How difficult would it be. Once you do that, everyone complies. 

Well, everyone except for lonewolf of course.....

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> if you have difficulty breathing through a mask (which doctors and nurses wear for 12 hours straight), then why are you even going out When there is a virus that attacks the lungs ?


Not everyone can wear a mask. It really can get in the way of breathing. So I am fine with exceptions, plus in Canada we haven't had a great selection of mask products.

But what angers me are these young adults in their 20s and 30s. They are all over the place where I am and they have the lowest level of mask usage. People in such good health should be required by law to wear masks... they aren't wearing masks because they're lazy, or aren't concerned about themselves. That's pure selfishness.

Around here, I see the 20 and 30 somethings laughing it up, socializing, now packing the bars and nightclubs full. Gathering in large groups. They are in grocery stores, with no mask, walking by elderly people in frail health. Seemingly no awareness that we are in a serious pandemic.

It's just not appropriate for the current situation and must be stopped.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

If someone has cancer the lower level of oxygen from wearing masks causes the cancer to spread faster since the immune system is weakened with the lower oxygen levels. Anyone with Covid or other respiratory problems wearing a mask just makes matters worse for the person.

Keeping people locked up their homes weakens the immune system.

Social distancing with areas closed down puts more people in x amount of area. Standing in lines & moving through stores slowly actually means longer times exposed to the virus. Man is a social animal trying to make us something we are not causes more health problems & deaths.

The government could not control the climate to with in half a degree C. Do you think they can control a virus ? There was a reason years ago people left Europe to get away from power tripping government. It is a complete joke how the tyrants are power tripping thinking they can control a virus they will just lead us to civil war if they keep it up. The government should do something they have never done which tell the people they made a mistake & just stop all the Covid BS


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

But lonewolf, the government isn't saying you can't have social interactions. They're just saying to keep some distance between you and the other person. And ideally wear a mask.

Cheap disposable / surgical masks are loose fitting and, in my experience anyway, really don't get in the way of breathing.

I totally agree that social interactions are necessary, as are regular life patterns. I recently moved and need to set up a work space. It's not frivolous... I need a desk, need furniture, need a way to do my work. I need kitchenware. I need to go into stores. I need to see friends.

But I can do all that, just being a little bit cautious, keeping some extra distance with people, wearing a mask. Isn't this a pretty good compromise?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is not reasonable to mandate masks on a provincial basis since there are so many situations and locations where masks won't do anything at all, and actually counterproductive because of how silly it would be. Provinces should give a carte blanche to municipalities to decide on where masking up is mandatory and/or highly recommended. Municipalities could mandate certain minimums in public facilities and arm twist (reward/celebrate) certain types of businesses to do likewise. There are too many dumb people out there, and too many selfish people out there, to keep new covid cases to a simmer, or dull roar.

James, you could easily go to social media to shame IKEA in its poor response to physical distancing needs. Seems to me if enough people do that, businesses will sometimes respond.

It wouldn't bother me so much if it was the selfish and ignorant that caught covid and died, but the travesty is it is them infecting those around them that were otherwise doing their best to be conscientious.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

We live in a very individualistic and dogmatic world. People don't care enough about others to bother to wear a mask. Nowadays, some people even cough in other peoples' faces out of spite.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> James, you could easily go to social media to shame IKEA in its poor response to physical distancing needs. Seems to me if enough people do that, businesses will sometimes respond.


I don't really do social media stuff (since I have no presence, nobody will care what I write) but I am going to phone and try reaching the store's manager to convey my thoughts. Maybe just a voicemail, if nothing else.



AltaRed said:


> It wouldn't bother me so much if it was the selfish and ignorant that caught covid and died, but the travesty is it is them infecting those around them that were otherwise doing their best to be conscientious.


Right. I feel especially bad for the older members of our society. They are (rightfully) scared to go out and even a simple trip somewhere exposes them to risk. When I'm in the stores, I see them working very hard to keep away from other people. It must be a very scary time for them.

I would hope that everyone in society realizes the difficult situation that seniors, or anyone with health problems, is having.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I do my best to keep physical distancing but it's about an 80% success rate at best. Best I can do in those instances is hold my breath until I can get at least a few metres away.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Does Ikea have curb side pickup?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

If Trudeau is allowed to mingle in a crowd of protestors, it's okay for people at IKEA to get close on occasion.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Right wingers always think two wrongs make a right. Won't stop them from criticizing the other guy's wrongs vociferously while defending their teams right to do the same.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Most IKEA products are junk...and the stuff that isn't cheap thin particle board is way overpriced. I wouldn't buy anything there.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

I need a couple of shelves and looked into building them myself versus buying them at a store such as ikea.

It's $72 for a piece of 8x4 foot 3/4 inch thick plywood (there is cheaper plywood but it's not smooth/sanded on both sides so not suitable for furniture in the living room). Then you have to pay $30 for at least two cans of stain or finish. Then you need fasteners (I would just use dowels which are cheap and my favorite way of joining things). You need edge banding for the edges of the plywood. Finally you have to rent a van to bring it all home, unless you already own a truck/van which I don't. After all this, it actually comes out cheaper to just buy furniture from ikea. I still plan to build it myself just so that I can customize it the way I want, but my point is that it's not cheap and it doesn't save you money versus buying at ikea. I was at HD the other day trying to pick up the supplies but none of their vans were available (they don't let you reserve one, you gotta hang around the store all day hoping one will become free), I'll probably just rent one from uhaul or something.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Not aware of a better/cheaper place for disposable furniture than IKEA. Similar particle board furniture you find elsewhere (Canadian Tire, Home Depot, etc.) tends to be very poor quality. Just be aware that the furniture is disposable, and not meant to last many years or use or being moved.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for mandatory masking would come from, but it seems to be done on a city basis.


It does not make sense federally, since there are so many differences between provinces and regions. We were at a national park this week and they did require masks in close quarters (on the bus) and were taking extra precautions through temperature checks. The jurisdiction could fall under provincial since that covers health however it would make more sense at a municipality level through a by law. 

I would rather that it is mandated across the country for masks inside public places due to travel, but hope at least my city will do something. They are thinking of getting a by law for mask because so many people are not wearing them.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Not everyone can wear a mask. It really can get in the way of breathing.


While I suppose that is true, I would guess that those so frail of breath as to not be able to use a mask are also laying in bed on oxygen therapy. A mask is an extraordinarily light burden on resparation. Not only doctors and nurses but lots of industrial, farming, construction and high tech occupations put folks in masks for hours at a time. Asking folks to wear a medical style mask is not at all an unreasonable imposition. There are dozens of occupations where failure to use one would result in dismissal and possible industrial safety sanctions.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> It does not make sense federally, since there are so many differences between provinces and regions. We were at a national park this week and they did require masks in close quarters (on the bus) and were taking extra precautions through temperature checks. The jurisdiction could fall under provincial since that covers health however it would make more sense at a municipality level through a by law.
> 
> I would rather that it is mandated across the country for masks inside public places due to travel, but hope at least my city will do something. They are thinking of getting a by law for mask because so many people are not wearing them.


I would guess jurisdiction depends on the property. I could see stores in cities falling under municipal by-laws as the cities are the ones that issue permits, collected the associated taxes. While the national park would fall under federal.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Not aware of a better/cheaper place for disposable furniture than IKEA. Similar particle board furniture you find elsewhere (Canadian Tire, Home Depot, etc.) tends to be very poor quality. Just be aware that the furniture is disposable, and not meant to last many years or use or being moved.


We have a white IKEA wardrobe on our balcony that we bought in 1995! We have painted it to blend in but it is still serving its purpose.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ikea's safety manager replied to my email, so at least I know she saw my comments.

I'm kind of proud of how I tracked down the safety manager. I did some internet sleuthing, found the person's name, and then guessed at the email format.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> We have a white IKEA wardrobe on our balcony that we bought in 1995! We have painted it to blend in but it is still serving its purpose.


One of the biggest pain in the butts for condo boards are people who put stuff on their balconies that are not allowed under the condo rules. The condo we lived in allowed nothing but patio furniture and a barbecue. It was a quite clear and simple rule. Yet people would put bicycles, old sofas, hang laundry to dry or paint the walls a different colour etc. All had to be told NO, you can't do that and they always responded as if they should be allowed to do as they wanted to. In most condos your balcony is not actually your property, it is 'common property' that you are allowed exclusive use of but you can't just do as you please with it.

Here is a typical set of rules for a condo balcony.


http://nauticacommunity.ca/wp-content/uploads/Rules-SSCC-360.pdf


You will see on page 6 under 1:e the following:
"_store any bicycles, equipment, furniture, goods, materials or other items except for seasonal furniture; "_

Your 'wardrobe' would not be allowed under those rules.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I am a huge believer in MYOB


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The thing is that LTA knows about lots of things but has no context. I live in a penthouse and am allowed a BBQ and many other thing not visible to anyone. The only time people get to complain is when things get delivered through the lobby! 1350 sq.ft. Patio....all allowed by the management.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

ian said:


> I am a huge believer in MYOB


Most issues can pretty be solved with this product.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> I am a huge believer in MYOB


The thing is though ian that in a condo, what is an individuals rights regarding the property are not the same as when you own a detached home. So it isn't a case of 'your own business', it is a case of the individual infringing on the 'common business' and THINKING they have individual rights when they do not.

When we lived in a condo, what I observed was that the majority of people who bought a condo did not really understand what the trade-off they were signing up for was. They would do something contrary to condo rules and then be surprised when told, 'no, you can't do that.' I doubt that 10% had actually read the condo rules before buying and still hadn't even after moving in.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> The thing is that LTA knows about lots of things but has no context. I live in a penthouse and am allowed a BBQ and many other thing not visible to anyone. The only time people get to complain is when things get delivered through the lobby! 1350 sq.ft. Patio....all allowed by the management.


Yes context is important. If you are not living in a condo and just renting, the rules are those laid down by the owner and included in your rental agreement. If you are living in a condo then the rules are those in the condo agreement. The only thing you have not put in 'context' kcowan is whether a wardrobe is within the rules in your case or not. 

But then, I didn't say your wardrobe WAS against the rules in your case, I wrote, 'people who put stuff on their balconies that are not allowed under the condo rules.' I was simply going off your example of a wardrobe and saying in MANY cases it would not be allowed. 

I think the point I was making was clear. If you don't like the rules, don't live where those rules exist. One of the most thankless volunteer jobs there is has to be being on a condo board. It amazed me to discover just how many people think that they should be exempt from the rules in one way or another. During the two years I was on the board, we had to deal with infractions at every single monthly meeting. Sometimes as many as half a dozen in a month. 

For example, one resident owner who is a well known Canadian wine producer, would come home for lunch often and park his Bentley in the visitors parking area at the front of the building rather than in his designated parking space in the underground garage. There was no good reason for his doing that, he just preferred it. He ignored repeated verbal requests and then written requests to leave visitor parking for visitors and park in his designated parking space. The board finally had to have a letter sent from a lawyer saying that the board would begin legal proceedings to force the sale of his condo. 

It's easy to think, 'oh mind your own business, who cares if someone parks there when they come home for lunch.' But that thinking only holds up until it is your visitor that can't get parked anywhere because residents are taking up all the visitor parking. Then the tune changes to, 'hey, my visitor can't get parked, what are you doing about this, why are you allowing residents to park in visitors parking.' 

People always seem to think the rules should not apply to them but at the same time, think the rules should apply if someone else is breaking them and it is interfering with them. That's one of the reasons why being on a condo board is such a thankless job. You're a 'condo nazi' if you tell someone they can't do something and you're an 'incompetent board' if you let someone do something that interferes with someone else in any way. It's a no win job.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

For the first time in 6-8 months, we were at Costco yesterday to stock up on goods, mostly meat, for the upcoming revolving door of visitors this summer. What a freaking gong show it was. We wore masks into the store and they were also handing out masks but maybe a quarter of the people did not wear masks (mostly 30 and 40 somethings it seems) and did not appear to care about it at all. The place was like a crowded freeway in the aisles although the till area was not too bad. A fertile petri dish is the best way to describe it. 

I could not wait to get out of there and would have left if I could have gotten away with that tactic with my spouse. I did tell her afterward that I won't be back. Other than the high quality of their fresh meats, I see no attractiveness of the place especially for couples. A family of 5 with teenagers....maybe.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> For the first time in 6-8 months, we were at Costco yesterday to stock up on goods, mostly meat, for the upcoming revolving door of visitors this summer. What a freaking gong show it was. We wore masks into the store and they were also handing out masks but maybe a quarter of the people did not wear masks (mostly 30 and 40 somethings it seems) and did not appear to care about it at all. The place was like a crowded freeway in the aisles although the till area was not too bad. A fertile petri dish is the best way to describe it.
> 
> I could not wait to get out of there and would have left if I could have gotten away with that tactic with my spouse. I did tell her afterward that I won't be back. Other than the high quality of their fresh meats, I see no attractiveness of the place especially for couples. A family of 5 with teenagers....maybe.


What happened to only ONE family member entering a supermarket at a time? That was one of the original criteria laid down way back when. Supermarkets were enforcing that and refusing to let couples or a parent with child enter at all.









Exeter, Ont. grocery store changes 'one-person' policy


As the province inches its way through the pandemic, restrictions are being placed on how businesses can operate. That includes people having to wear masks in some stores as well as limiting the number of people allowed inside.



london.ctvnews.ca





Now you see whole families of even 4 or more going in to supermarkets. The risk hasn't changed.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

LTA...this thing is that it is not your condo. It belongs to someone else, in another city. Nor did you know the context as noted by the person who lives there. You are not on the board.

So, it is hardly your concern. Hence my MYOB comment.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> LTA...this thing is that it is not your condo. It belongs to someone else, in another city. Nor did you know the context as noted by the person who lives there. You are not on the board.
> 
> So, it is hardly your concern. Hence my MYOB comment.


Ian, MYOB. My comments are not your business are they? I believe they word you are looking for is 'touche'.

I made a comment on a side issue granted but it was a valid comment I think and not directed at mcowan as an individual in any way. I did not say HE was doing anything wrong, I only used his wardrobe as a segue into the topic of condo rules and people who want to ignore them when it suits them. I see no problem with that.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)




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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

In our building, anyone who parks in a restricted zone gets a warning and is then towed by our agency, Bentley or not. Most likely MER or BMW where the owner expects special treatment.

BTW our complex does have a major problem with fridges and freezers on balconies. They have never solved that one and remind me of masks, rules are made to be broken!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> In our building, anyone who parks in a restricted zone gets a warning and is then towed by our agency, Bentley or not. Most likely MER or BMW where the owner expects special treatment.
> 
> BTW our complex does have a major problem with fridges and freezers on balconies. They have never solved that one and remind me of masks, rules are made to be broken!


I don't know what laws are applicable in your area mcowan but in the condo I lived in in BC, a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing. That lovely legal word 'liability' stops a lot of things in their tracks. So rather than risk liability it was easier to threaten to force the sale of the unit.

Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Ian, MYOB. My comments are not your business are they? I believe they word you are looking for is 'touche'.
> 
> I made a comment on a side issue granted but it was a valid comment I think and not directed at mcowan as an individual in any way. I did not say HE was doing anything wrong, I only used his wardrobe as a segue into the topic of condo rules and people who want to ignore them when it suits them. I see no problem with that.


None of which is about the topic of this thread - touché, indeed


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I don't know what laws are applicable in your area mcowan but in the condo I lived in in BC, a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing. That lovely legal word 'liability' stops a lot of things in their tracks. So rather than risk liability it was easier to threaten to force the sale of the unit.
> 
> Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?


They do it occasionally. Chest fridges are harder to detect and tough to move(loaded with food). But after a while it creeps back. They prohibit storing bikes but their central storage for bikes is not ideal. They do not prohibit taking bikes on the elevators.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> I don't know what laws are applicable in your area mcowan but in the condo I lived in in BC, a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing. That lovely legal word 'liability' stops a lot of things in their tracks. So rather than risk liability it was easier to threaten to force the sale of the unit.
> 
> Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?


LTA, can you cite some authority for the proposition that "a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing"? Whence does said liability flow? Is there a provincial statute to which you can point that imposes such civil liability? Or do you rely on cases decided by the courts? I have not been able to find one to that effect. Is it a case of strict liability? Of absolute liability? Do not ordinary principles of negligence, bailment and contract law apply? Is not the towing company likely to be the prime target of any claim for towing damage? Has the principle that a tortfeasor is always liable for his own tort been displaced in towing cases? I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying you seem of have some knowledge of a niche area of the law that I lack and I would appreciate your assistance in filling this apparent lacuna in my knowledge base.

As for "threatening to force a sale of the unit", does that not seem a bit extreme as a first salvo over an illegally-parked fridge? When you sat on what you call a "condo board" (known for some decades in BC as the "strata council"), did you ever do that?

I would think you'd be hard pressed to find a lawyer willing to pen such a threat. Most lawyers learn that you never threaten anything you do not intend to actually do. So, to force a sale, what would ordinarily be expected would be, in brief compass: to have in place a properly-enacted bylaw prohibiting fridges etc. on balconies. In case of a violation, a warning and cease and desist letter should issue from the strata corporation manager or the strata council. Then there would come the levying of a fine, if such be contemplated by the bylaw. Let's say a fine of $x for every day of violation. When the fines have gone unpaid, then time to file a lien against the title to the strata lot in the Land Title Office. Then apply for judgment on the lien. Then apply for a sale, which may or may not be granted. The whole tedious (and costly) process is captured fairly well in this BC Court of Appeal judgment:

Strata Plan LMS 307 v. Krusoczki, 2006 BCCA 154



2006 BCCA 154 Strata Plan LMS 307 v. Krusoczki



So, returning to your question:



Longtimeago said:


> Why doesn't your condo board simply send those with fridges on the balcony a letter from their lawyer threatening to force the sale of the unit if they don't comply?


With kcowan's indulgence, permit me to answer. The condo board does not "simply" do it because it would be a dumb idea, assuming some lawyer could be put up to it.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> They do it occasionally. Chest fridges are harder to detect and tough to move(loaded with food). But after a while it creeps back. They prohibit storing bikes but their central storage for bikes is not ideal. They do not prohibit taking bikes on the elevators.


Why don't they pass a bylaw disallowing bikes on elevators then? 

I have only ever lived in one condo and I have to say, never again would I choose to do so. While I had no problem with abiding by the rules, the petty nature of some residents in that regard just made me not want to share my living space with such people. It's hard to smile and say good morning on the elevator to someone you know is being an *******. It's like a bad neighbour who you cannot avoid.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Mukhang pera said:


> LTA, can you cite some authority for the proposition that "a tow truck towing a vehicle from private property at the behest of the property owner meant that the property owner was liable for any damage to the vehicle that resulted from the towing"? Whence does said liability flow? Is there a provincial statute to which you can point that imposes such civil liability? Or do you rely on cases decided by the courts? I have not been able to find one to that effect. Is it a case of strict liability? Of absolute liability? Do not ordinary principles of negligence, bailment and contract law apply? Is not the towing company likely to be the prime target of any claim for towing damage? Has the principle that a tortfeasor is always liable for his own tort been displaced in towing cases? I am not saying you are wrong, but I am saying you seem of have some knowledge of a niche area of the law that I lack and I would appreciate your assistance in filling this apparent lacuna in my knowledge base.
> 
> As for "threatening to force a sale of the unit", does that not seem a bit extreme as a first salvo over an illegally-parked fridge? When you sat on what you call a "condo board" (known for some decades in BC as the "strata council"), did you ever do that?
> 
> ...


Mukhang Pera, we have discussed before the difference between what the law says and what can actually be done, whether legally actionable or not. Do you remember a thread in which 'name and shame' was discussed?

The strata board or the strata management company can write a letter whether directly or through a lawyer threatening ANYTHING they want to. It doesn't have to be legally actionable. The unit owner may or may not realize that. A copy of the letter can be posted in a common area of the building for everyone to read and know who is not complying with the rules intended for the common good. 

As for getting a lawyer to send the letter, be real, you can get a lawyer to write anything you want if you pay enough. They may tell you it isn't actionable but that is irrelevant. 

You as a lawyer have a bias towards what is legal or not. I have no such bias. I am only interested in getting a desired action accomplished by whatever means necessary. When someone is not complying, I have no compunction about playing dirty pool. They will reap what they sow.

Re the tow truck. I am not going to go looking for a legal answer. I am simply telling you what a towing company told us when we talked to them about towing. They may have got it wrong legally, who knows, who cares. The point is they said what they said which was enough to have the strata board decide that avenue was not open. Towing might have left the strata liable. So writing a letter about a forced sale was a simple answer. Takes up 5 minutes in a strata council meeting. If it got the desired action that was all that was required. If it did not, then another means would need to be employed. Park your Bentley in visitor parking while you are home having lunch and come out to find it has been 'keyed'. What is your legal recourse? Or if that offends your sensibilities too much, just shove a potato into the exhaust pipe. Do you know what that will do? The car will not be able to start and until you find and remove the potato, you're stuck. That was an old trick we used to play on our high school teachers. 

Got a real problem with multiple freezers on balconies as jcowan suggests, cut of electricity to the balconies for a day or two. An excuse to do so would not be hard to find. 'The strata is having new ground fault interrupt outlets installed on all unit balconies. This work will be carried out over the course of the month of X.'

'All balconies are common property and the strata has the right to inspect and do work on them at any time. Access cannot be denied but being aware of security concerns some residents may have, our strata management company will have a representative present at all times to let the electrician in to do the necessary work and to remain with the electrician while the work is carried out. At no time will the electrician be left alone in your unit.'

Now Mukhang pera, every balcony is going to be seen and what is on it is going to be seen. If there is a freezer, the outlet will be disconnected but unfortunately the electrician is going to find he has run out of the new outlets to be installed. He will have to come back later to do that. Say tomorrow, or the day after maybe. 

How legally when all your food spoils, are you going to react when the freezer was there illegally in the first place? You could remove the food to somewhere else but when and for how long? You will not have any way of knowing when your unit is going to have the work done other than in a long time period. Gonna move your food out for a month?

The problem most condo boards have in my opinion is that they listen to lawyers too much. Yes, they need to know what they can legally do and not do but they do not have to limit themselves to that. Those that are not complying are not limiting themselves to what they can legally do, why should the condo board? There are all kinds of creative ways to go about making it easier for someone to comply than to not comply.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

I recall very well the past discussion LTA.

Your statement thus is some of the silliest crap you have as yet come up with:

_As for getting a lawyer to send the letter, be real, you can get a lawyer to write anything you want if you pay enough. They may tell you it isn't actionable but that is irrelevant. _

You may denigrate the legal profession until the cows come home, but it is time for you to "be real". Your words are simply a slur against the profession in general and just plain wrong. No lawyer I know would ever write "anything you want". You have very likely never worked in a regulated profession. You worked in sales where there is no governing body to prevent slimy sales tactics from being employed. In the law profession, even if you find a lawyer who is a low flyer, with no moral or ethical standards, "writing anything you want if you pay enough" can very quickly get said lawyer in hot water with the governing body, in BC, the Law Society of BC. That's leaving aside the whole matter of reputation and credibility. Those mean everything in the law business. Not something bought and sold.

I meant what I said, as well, when I said it is bad form (and I have not seen it done) to write on a client's behalf, threatening legal action of any sort, unless I had instructions to follow through. It strikes at the heart of the credibility and efficacy of the profession as a whole if lawyers are dashing off idle threats in writing, and it comes to be seen that such missives are lawyers' mere puffery that can be ignored with impunity. 

While I would never choose to own a condo, that goes double for one where you are a member of the strata council. Your attitude is a bit scary. You believe in using canons to kill flies. It seems you love a fight and playing dirty, as you say, to win. But, in the end, what has been won?

Let's look at the examples you mention. First, the fridge/freezer on balcony issue. You propose cutting electricity to all balconies for a day or two. In short, punish all residents for the sins of one. Or have the strata corporation spend the owners' money on an electrician to attend and pull the plug on one freezer and teach the miscreant a lesson by means of a freezer full of spoiled food.

The parking issue you see as being addressed in multiple ways, take your choice: (1) Having a lawyer write threatening a forced sale. Already commented up. Plus it comes at a cost to the strata corporation and involves a lot of time, when the visitors' parking should be freed up with dispatch. (2) Having the offending vehicle "keyed". Nothing like resorting to a breach of the criminal law (mischief) to achieve one's goals. Much safer to do that than to call a tow truck. If the insured towing company damages the vehicle, oh my, the issue of "liability" rears its ugly head. On the other hand, what liability could possibly flow from keying a vehicle? Similarly, the owner of the spoiled food will, almost certainly, not think to seek redress against the strata corporation and individual council members for the unlawful resort to self-help you would propose. Is that what you think? You are free to enjoy an anarchical holiday without repercussions? 

LTA, I would ask if you have considered taking an anger management course. You come across as harbouring a good measure of bottled-up hostility. What you reveal in your words about proper conduct for a strata council is a bit hair-raising. You seem to delight in coming up with vindictive and illegal means of getting things done. In all of the examples given, would it not be a course of prudence to simply seek to have a quiet word with those who breach strata corporation rules? Even before letter-writing (and I don't mean lawyers' letters). 

Once upon a time, I rented a furnished condo in Vancouver's West End. I sought out such a thing because I planned to stay only 3-6 months. It turned out to be more than 6 years. There were 120 units in a 20-storey building. I never saw any skirmishing over bylaw/rules enforcement. Matters were usually dealt with after a fashion of reasonable people dealing with reasonable people. It paid dividends to take a soft-peddle approach and assume that reason would be met with reason. Seemed to work well while I was there. 

On the odd occasion, the strata council would post on the notice board, and sometimes in the elevators, a notice to the effect that a breach of a certain rule seemed to be taking place and encouraging all to fall in line. Sometimes the resident manager would speak to an individual. I got that treatment. There was a rule about keeping nothing in your underground parking stall, except your car. Over time, some folks placed things like spare tires, maybe a tote or such, against the wall and it would be hidden when their car was parked in front. That was going on when I moved in, so I put some things behind my car that would otherwise have been stored in my trunk. One day, while walking away from my car, the manager made a bit of small talk with me and added, sort of as an "oh, by the way", a polite reminder that the rule was now being enforced and would I be a good sport and store nothing in my stall. It was a reasonable request. Some stalls were starting to look rather messy and the decision to enforce the rule was reasonable. Even if I thought it unreasonable, unless I wanted to attend a strata corporation meeting and lobby for a rule change, was I really going to argue that I had some special right to ignore the rule? 

What would you do in the parking stall storage case LTA? Maybe, under cover of darkness, resort to self-help, teach 'em a lesson, and remove all of the offending chattels to the dumpster? It seems to me that your chosen way of handling things, displaying a good measure of hostility, is likely to beget hostility in return and is unlikely to foster peace and harmony in the strata community.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

MP, your stories are always welcome. In our building, there are many seniors have trouble gauging the distance of their hood so the old tire would prevent front-end damage. But they were judged a fire hazard and all removed. 

Then they would take shopping carts up to their apartments with groceries and then leave them in the hallway. There was only one outlet on the balcony so they would run an extension cord from inside to power both the fridge and chest freezer. They would leave strollers on the balcony and sometimes suitcases. Some even installed satellite dishes (and more recently OTA antennas) on their balconies.

I think building management is a tiresome task.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

In my experience the biggest problem with condo board members is they don't have the gumption or guts to deal with the difficult issues, nor the tenacity to continue with an issue until it is resolved. Property managers often won't work issues through to resolution unless prodded by the Board, so it's a vicious circle. Many residents will try to ignore the rules and management directives, which plays into the condo corp's hands. And the worst offenders don't relent when you try to embarrass them, rather they wear it as a badge of honour.

But to the issues raised, the condo lawyers we had would not stoop to issuing any correspondence that was not in compliance with the applicable legislation or the condo's governing documents. But there are very persuasive ways to deal with things within the laws. (I refer to ON, as it is the province with which I am familiar). For any of the issues mentioned, if they are contrary to the condo act or the rules / bylaws / declaration, contact the unit owner, point out the rules and request they comply, follow up in writing if the first contact was oral, and give a date by which the malfeasance must be rectified. If not corrected by that deadline, send another letter, stating if not corrected by x date it will be referred to the condo lawyer. Then the lawyer sends a letter, with notification that they now owe the lawyer's fee, which legal fees incurred enforcing the rules can be collected in the same manner as condo fees. And if they don't pay within 90 days then the corp can register a lien against the property that will cover up to 90 days prior fees and all future fees related to the same non-compliance. And the lien search and registration process costs about $1k IIRC. If they ignore that, lawyer sends another letter giving a deadline after which application will be made to the court to enforce compliance. And in such case, a lien search must be done to ensure that all lienholders get notified. This gets expensive fast. So they easily burn up a few months AirBnB revenue, and realize the condo corp is diligent, persistent, and has the full force of the law behind it (real lawyers, not the blustering boobs imagined by some). Taken to conclusion, the sheriff arrives to evict the property owner, the manager changes the lock and begins the power of sale process. This is what LTA envisioned, but he/she left out about 95% of the steps. In the case that there is a mortgage, the property manager usually first notifies the mortgagee, which then usually pays the condo all outstanding fees and adds such to the mortgage, since banks don't like someone else having a higher lien on the property. All this is especially fun if there is a tenant, since the tenant causes the landlord money and heartburn.

Some might say this takes a horrible amount of time, but it's actual an efficient method if the property manager and board know their jobs. Plus if you have to follow the legal method after the bullying / blustering / embarrassing / empty threat method fails, it puts the condo corp in a weak position for court enforcement since they used their authority inappropriately against the "little guy" property owner. Knowledge is power.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I don't think most people realize just how common things like those kcowan lists in #46 are. Nor do they realize just how thankless a task being on a condo board often is.

Imagine yourself, bringing groceries up in a shopping cart (stolen from a supermarket presumably) to your unit and then leaving the shopping cart in the hallway as kcowan relates. Who would do that? Well the answer is lots of people would. Who do they think is going to remove the shopping cart and to where? They don't CARE.

Regarding parking spaces and storage, I once arrived home and drove into the underground garage where I found a guy up on a ladder drilling into the concrete ceiling of the garage. When I asked what he was doing, his response was something like, 'I'm installing anchor points so that I can keep my kayak hoisted up over our car.'

He said if as if it was no big deal. I pointed to a fire sprinkler and one of the fluorescent light fixtures and asked him what he thought it would be like if everyone did something similar and access to the sprinklers and light fixtures was made difficult if no impossible. By the look on his face I could tell he had no clue about how his doing something that he saw as affecting no one else, could be interpreted by others as giving them the right to do something similar and that if he were allowed to get away with it, others WOULD take it as an indication they could do something else and WOULD do so. His only concern was what HE wanted, not what was best for all when living in a communal setting which a condo is.

So I told him, you can't drill into the ceiling, you can't hang a kayak and there is nowhere that you can in fact store a kayak in the building. His response to that predictably was, 'well how am I supposed to store my kayak?' Again, all about HIM and HIS problem. I told him that was his problem to work out an answer to.

Two days later, another resident who understood why it would not be allowed told me quietly that the guy was going around moaning to anyone who would listen that I was a real ******* and should be kicked off the board. He was canvassing for anyone interested in signing a petition to that effect. He still didn't see what he wanted to do as being wrong in any way obviously.

If you want to understand how some people will behave in a condo and as GreakLaker suggests, 'take it as a badge of honour' to break the rules, you have to BE on a condo board to see it. There are some people that you can approach for a quiet word when they innocently break a rule because they haven't paid attention to reading the rules carefully before they do something that if they owned a detached house they wouldn't need to think twice about doing. 

There are some that resist but after a verbal warning and perhaps a letter, will grudgingly comply although they will refer to the condo board as 'condo nazis' and complain to all and sundry how ridiculous the board is and it is 'time some reasonable people were elected at the next Annual General Meeting.' NONE of them however ever volunteer to be on the board. 

Then there are the worst offenders who as GreakLaker suggests, with whom you have to go the whole 9 yards of the process to remove them from the building. OR you have to find a way to discourage them that falls outside the rules but gets the desired action from them.

I realize not all condo board members are likely to be willing to take 'unconventional' steps to gain compliance but I am not one of them. Consider what you yourself would do if confronted with someone such as the guy parking in visitors every day while he was home for lunch. The first time I approached him about it, I tried 'reasonable argument' about it being for visitors and that we had limited visitor parking available. How would he feel if his visitors could not get parked, etc.' His response was along the lines of, 'what's the big deal, there's still an empty visitor space there' and he walked away into the building. 

Some people will blatantly and in your face, refuse to comply. For me anyway, when they do that, they will reap what they sow. What I actually did with the guy who was parking in visitors was have our property gardener park his riding mower trailer behind the car one day and go off for his lunch hour. Message sent.

Playing by the rules is what I would always prefer to do but if the other party will not play by the rules then the gloves come off.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

ian said:


> ....not just in stores like Ikea but in ALL stores and in all public areas. Alas, you cannot fix stupid.
> 
> I really like Ikea AAA and AA batteries for my electronics-especially remote controls. Inexpensive and seem to outlast other brands.


Ian, are these rechargeable batteries, or the 'regular' kind?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I like the dark chocolate bars they sell at Ikea, I think they were only $2 each, product of Spain, great quality.

The LED bulbs they sell (Ikea brand) are also unbelievably good value, and seem to be good quality.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I like their meatballs and lingonberry sauce. 

I don't find their batteries last as long contrary to ian's opinion. However, the batteries are so cheap it doesn't matter if you have to replace them more often. The problem I have found with the batteries is that I go to Ikea so rarely, I tend to buy a lot of them at one time and they can go bad (start leaking) before I get around to using them a year or whatever later.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Alkaline batteries are known as alkaleaks in some circles. Some do have a tendency to leak especially if stored long-term in a device that is rarely used like an emergency flashlight. They have high internal resistance so they don't perform well in hi current devices like video games, digital cameras and flashlights. I generally use them in low cost, low current devices.

NiMh rechargeables are my go-to batteries in most devices. New designs like Eneloop, Ladda and Amazon Basics are low self-discharge so will retain most of their charge for a couple of years. I use them in high current devices like flashlights and my camera flash. Once they get a few years old and don't hold a charge as well I downcycle them to low current devices like clocks and remote controls. I have Eneloops that are over 10 years old and still perform OK. 

For long-term storage like an emergency stash, Energizer Ultimate Lithiums are powerful and long lasting, although very expensive. They are also cold resistant and work well in cold temps so great for a flashlight in a car or unheated garage. Note that Ultimate Lithiums are non-rechargeable 1.5 volt, not the same as Lithium Ion rechargeables commonly used in tablets, laptops and mobile phones.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

thanks for the above^^^ Laker.
Can i say that CMFers have been a great source of useful information to me, on many subjects, over the years!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

We did a grocery pickup yesterday with PC Express. Never a problem. 

While waiting for them to bring out our grocery order, I was watching the people going and coming. The parking lot was quite full overall. There are a couple of dozen big box stores all together and one large parking lot. At 2.30pm on a Wednesday there were a lot of people out shopping in all those stores. I would say less than a 1/4 were wearing masks and there were people of all ages. I saw people coming out of the supermarket with just one or two items in their hands.

Recently, there has been a lot of coverage and talk about masks. At the same time, there has been less and less coverage of other preventive measures and their importance. I think a lot of people are taking their eye off the ball and acting as if things were 'normal' or nearly so. That is simply not the reality. We are nowhere near the end of this pandemic. Overall, new daily cases in Canada have started increasing again. 








‘We’re going to run out of time’: Health experts sound alarm as Canada’s coronavirus cases rise - National | Globalnews.ca


Health experts worry that Canada's coronavirus cases are trending in the wrong direction.




globalnews.ca





People need to re-focus on the basics. Stay home if possible. Maintain distancing if you must go out. Wash hands often. Limit interactions including shopping, as much as possible. Wear a mask. With all the focus on the mask issue, the others have started to be forgotten.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> I like their meatballs and lingonberry sauce.


Are those separate items, or do the meatballs come swimming in lingonberry sauce? I grew up in a Norwegian household with both, but never together.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Mukhang pera said:


> Are those separate items, or do the meatballs come swimming in lingonberry sauce? I grew up in a Norwegian household with both, but never together.


The lingonberry comes as a dollop on the side of the plate, akin to say a turkey dinner with cranberry sauce on the side. Do they not serve them together that way in Norway? Perhaps, IKEA has adapted this menu item to appeal to Canadian tastes, who knows.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Lingonberry jam was always in our house and used as such...on toast, etc. I have had reindeer stew in Norway, with lingonberries simply sprinkled on top. I do not recall my mother much using it as a condiment with meat. I think it may have taken the place of cranberries with turkey from time to time. She made really good Norwegian meatballs, but not served with tyttebær (what my parents always called lingonberry). I'll have to try the Ikea variety if ever I get to Vancouver again (or maybe there's an Ikea in Victoria). 

Anyway, hearing of tyttebær brings back memories. Not often heard of in Canada. Kinda' like gjetost (goat milk cheese from Norway) or torskerogn (cod roe) - nice when you can find it.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We did our first online stockup yesterday (We began our 14 day isolation last Friday and had inital stock from friends). Good web ordering system (Fresh St Market), shows when a substitution in made, any stockouts deducted from the total, delivered to the door the next day. $10 for delivery.

Now on to Everything Wine...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> Anyway, hearing of tyttebær brings back memories. Not often heard of in Canada. Kinda' like gjetost (goat milk cheese from Norway) or torskerogn (cod roe) - nice when you can find it.


Gjetost (or what they sell here under that name) is quite odd. I thought it was some kind of soy cheese. 

Any smoked mackerel? My grandfather (Dutch) still buys that from time to time.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

andrewf said:


> Gjetost (or what they sell here under that name) is quite odd. I thought it was some kind of soy cheese.
> 
> Any smoked mackerel? My grandfather (Dutch) still buys that from time to time.


Gjetost ("gyet" meaning goat and "ost" meaning cheese) is a bit of an acquired taste sort of thing. The Ski Queen brand is the one usually found in Canada. About $16 for the small block shown in the pic. It shows up once in awhile at the Superstore and at Save on Foods in Campbell River.

Lots of mackerel in Norway. I have caught mackerel there using simple handline trolling with plastic worms. But smoked I do not recall in our home or in relatives' homes in Norway. Now pickled herring (sild), that's another story! My aunt in Bergen made the best!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Mukhang pera said:


> Lingonberry jam was always in our house and used as such...on toast, etc. I have had reindeer stew in Norway, with lingonberries simply sprinkled on top. I do not recall my mother much using it as a condiment with meat. I think it may have taken the place of cranberries with turkey from time to time. She made really good Norwegian meatballs, but not served with tyttebær (what my parents always called lingonberry). I'll have to try the Ikea variety if ever I get to Vancouver again (or maybe there's an Ikea in Victoria).
> 
> Anyway, hearing of tyttebær brings back memories. Not often heard of in Canada. Kinda' like gjetost (goat milk cheese from Norway) or torskerogn (cod roe) - nice when you can find it.


Well maybe it is a Swedish thing. IKEA is after all a Swedish company, not a Norwegian company. 

I've only visited Norway once and that was for a week or so spent in Bergen. I liked it but too much open face fish based sandwiches for my liking. I'm not a big fish fan at all.

I found their smoking and drinking habits a bit of an eye-opener. Most people who smoke, roll their own cigarettes to save money and I'm not talking about poor people. They also drink at home to save money before going out for say a Friday evening to meet friends at a bar. Then they smoke 'tailor made' packaged cigarettes while out at the bar or restaurant etc. Apparently, it is a result of the high taxes on alcohol and tobacco.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Longtimeago said:


> Well maybe it is a Swedish thing. IKEA is after all a Swedish company, not a Norwegian company.
> 
> I've only visited Norway once and that was for a week or so spent in Bergen. I liked it but too much open face fish based sandwiches for my liking. I'm not a big fish fan at all.
> 
> I found their smoking and drinking habits a bit of an eye-opener. Most people who smoke, roll their own cigarettes to save money and I'm not talking about poor people. They also drink at home to save money before going out for say a Friday evening to meet friends at a bar. Then they smoke 'tailor made' packaged cigarettes while out at the bar or restaurant etc. Apparently, it is a result of the high taxes on alcohol and tobacco.


Norway is not really a good place for those who do not appreciate fish.

Norway has almost prohibition through alcohol taxes. So many Norwegians "burn their own" as they say. Backyard stills. 

The roll-your-own smokes is also part of the culture. I quit smoking when I was 21, but when in Norway before that, I smoked. Pall Mall cigarettes made in Denmark with tobacco grown there were pretty good. On one trip to Norway, I was about 19, I ran out of store-bought smokes and I was with a cousin at a somewhat remote spot on the ocean where family had a cabin. No stores anywhere. So, we were out fishing for cod, mackerel and sei (I think called pollock here). When he saw I was out of cigarettes, he kindly handed over a tobacco pouch, papers, etc. 

I had never rolled a cigarette in my life, except on a rolling machine at Mountain Trout House for lodge guests. But, I did not want to look weak. I made a valiant attempt to stuff tobacco into a paper and make some kind of a roll. This is while sitting in a small open boat, in somewhat rough seas, wind blowing, a light rain falling. It was not going well. Tobacco was blowing around, being wasted. I was making a hash of the papers. So cousin starts laughing and very quickly retrieves the lot from my inept hands and deftly rolls a smoke for me in a single-handed operation, all the while keeping a steady hand on the tiller and holding onto his line.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

We love the IKEA meatballs, and have them as a quick meal. With the shutdowns, ikea released their recipe



https://www.ikea.com/ms/en_SG/pdf/restaurant/Meatballs_w_creamsauce.pdf



i had not idea what’s ruse flour is And used random breadcrumbs. mine were pretty good, but not exactly the same. We did a by side comparison with the ikea ones I had in the freezer. 

@Mukhang pera Where do you get lingonberry jam? I only have seen it at ikea.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

The last time we bought Lingonberry jam was in Seattle. We found a place (see link below) that sells a lot of Scandinavian products. Every couple of years we take a drive south to my old LA stomping ground to visit friends and to see if our house still stands and, since finding this Scandinavian store, we detour into Seattle on our way home. A lot of the food products are in bottles and tins and will last. We also buy cheeses from Norway that are hard to find on Vancouver Island and even in Vancouver. Nøkkelost is one of those cheeses. Flavored with cumin seeds and cloves. We always had it at home in Toronto. Not sure where my parents bought it. 









All Things Nordic!


Browse our vast selection of groceries, gifts, decor, apparel, and more!



www.scanspecialties.com





We also always take a detour to the Olive Pit in Corning, CA. An amazing collection of olives and olive products and some other items. They also provide free samples of most of it. Well probably not now, given the new world order. Places like that might soon be gone forever. Olive Pit - Gourmet Olives, Olive Oil, Balsamic Vinegar, Wine and Craft Beer


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

My parents often buy komijnekaas (cumin cheese / gouda) from a local dutch store. The stuff from the grocery store isn't quite the same.


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