# CFL Disposal..a new environmental problem?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

The Federal gov't in 2007 announced with a lot of hoopla that the new CFL bulb would replace the old incandescent energy wasting bulb and it was declared GOOD, but the BAD is that each bulb contains a finite amount of mercury,
and the UGLY is that mercury if it gets into ground water can be hazardous to human (and animal) health.

The reality is that ALL CFL bulbs contain about 5mg of mercury and that is considered a hazardous
substance, similar to the Americium used in smoke detectors which needs to be disposed properly.
I million CFL bulbs contain about 5 million mg which should be around 50kg of mercury. 
Not something you want leaching into landfill from broken CFLs. 



> While fluorescent bulbs contain about five milligrams of mercury — less than in a watch battery, according to Natural Resources Canada — Health Canada recommends that items containing mercury be treated as hazardous waste.



Up until last year the big box stores were accepting the used up CFL bulbs in their stores for disposal..now H-D is saying, it costs them to much to dispose of the bulbs and opted out..stating that the recycling should be done by 'third party".
The Feds have changed the original mandatory recycling provision to 'voluntary"...and only RONA seems to still be doing it in their stores.
http://www.homedepot.ca/eco-options/initiatives/recycling-programs

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fluorescent-bulbs-the-good-bad-and-ugly-1.977853



> In Canada, the provinces are responsible for setting regulations around the disposal of household hazardous waste, but municipalities most often carry out the actual disposal.
> 
> Disposal programs vary from municipality to municipality, with some offering collection programs specifically for mercury-containing products, such as fluorescent bulbs, in which the mercury is captured and recycled. Other municipalities collect mercury-containing products as part of their general household hazardous waste program.
> 
> Not surprisingly, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities has said it would like manufacturers of fluorescent bulbs to assume the cost and responsibility for recycling them.


Problem is that pretty much all of consumer lighting products are made offshore or in China these days, and I don't
think that Chinese manufactures give a hoot about taking back products they ship to NA for recycling. 

But there is no money to be made in recycling CFLs these days, so the taxpayers end up either subsidizing the recycling or these will still end up in landfill disposed in regular garbage 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...e-bulbs-says-ontario-recycling-head-1.1355585

Remember Ontario's eco-fees for recycling hazardous wastes? We had to pay up front for certain items, like tires, paints, solvents so that they could be recycled properly? Was this ever done? 
We all remember the Hagersville Ontario "tire mountain fire" back in the 90s , that embarrassed the NDP government collecting $5 per tire for "recycling". 

Question:
What are the odds that the Ontario Liberals re-instate that again as a cash cow under the premise that all these hazardous products don't end up in landfill anyway.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> What are the odds that the Ontario Liberals re-instate that again as a cash cow under the premise that all these hazardous products don't end up in landfill anyway.


Force you to buy them and force you to pay for their disposal......probably 150% chance.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Nemo2 said:


> Force you to buy them and force you to pay for their disposal......probably *150% chance*.


 ... +1 ... not "probably" but most surely.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

What about the mercury amalgam in my dental fillings?



> Dental amalgam, sometimes referred to as “silver filling,” is a silver-colored material used to fill (restore) teeth that have cavities. *Dental amalgam is made of two nearly equal parts: liquid mercury and a powder containing silver, tin, copper, zinc and other metals*. Amalgam is one of the most commonly used tooth fillings, and is considered to be a safe, sound, and effective treatment for tooth decay.


So..this is all a conspiracy by the dental industry..putting mercury into our mouths..safe treatment for tooth decay but not gradual "brain decay" (Alzheimers?) from the mercury leaching out of the fillings....and "picking up" international radio stations sometimes.:biggrin:

wait..is hearing signals from "Big Head" at Radio Moscow international...

"Boris to Squirrel: Vant to speak to Natasha."
Rocky: Hey Bullwinkle, we're in real trouble now!
Bullwinkle: Oh good, Rocky! I hate that artificial kind!
Natasha: Hello dollink


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

These targeted taxes/fees are just there in name only, it seems. It is not like the gas taxes that we pay go to maintain or upgrade the roads. These ecofees likely do the same, and go into general revenue to be spent/wasted as the government sees fit.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some things seem to work out.............

We had a mountain of cardboard in our auto parts warehouse to dispose of. It was put in a compactor and dumped daily at the local landfill site.

The government required "recycling" the cardboard........and the company bought a bailing machine and employed 1 person full time bailing cardboard.

At first..........there was a cost to the company, but within a few years they were making a profit from it.

The cardboard was recycled..........a person had a full time job.........and the company made a profit from it..............win...win...win.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> What about the *mercury amalgam* in my dental fillings?.......this is all a *conspiracy by the dental industry*.....


A conspiracy that's lasted now what, 1.5 centuries? :biggrin:

Dental amalgam is a dental filling material used to fill cavities caused by tooth decay. It has been used for more than 150 years in hundreds of millions of patients.
http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/P...es/DentalProducts/DentalAmalgam/ucm171094.htm

Methylmercury is the more toxic one.


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## rford (Aug 16, 2014)

I think IKEA is still accepting CFL's


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Why are people still buying CFLs? The new compact LED bulbs provide better quality of light, are "instant on", use little electricity, will last for ages, and don't contain mercury. Home Despot has 60W equivalents for under $10. Ikea has the same, and has 100W equivalents for about $13. Ikea also has a wide range of bases and sizes.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

^ The short answer is: money. LEDs cost more than CFLs still. People would still buy incandescent bulbs if they could because they are dirt cheap, that's why the government banned them. Big brother (mother in Ontario) doesn't trust us to do the right thing, and think about the long term. Can you blame them here? They are right. Many people will avoid the long term gain if it avoids the short term pain.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Yup, the higher cost of early adoption ... once LED bulbs become more cost effective I'm sure people will move away from CFLs.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

I hate Hate HATE CFL bulbs. With a passion.

I'm skipping them for LED bulbs. Screw the costs.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

It is the highest impertinence for government to regulate how its citizens spend their money. For if the extravagance and bad management of the government do not ruin the country, that of its citizens never will.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

I have done no research, but I picture the so-called-environmentally friendly recycling of CFL bulbs going something like this: - Stores collect them and a 3rd party packs them in huge containers and pays some Chinese company to take them to China to recycle. 
The cargo ends up in 2 possible places - 1. Some toxic city in China where children and pregnant women smash apart the bulbs and drain the mercury into buckets. 2. dumped into the ocean on the way to China. (or sorted at sea and the less profitable ones are dumped)
thankfully I'm at least partially wrong - I hope it looks more like this in more places:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Q-yKK88Po
but I doubt it, and that looks scary that they have simple single wall drums full of mercury... where's the hazmat suits?
this looks weird - guys in suits, hosts with no protection..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3MosUfFk8o
I suspect putting them in the middle of your household green bag is probably as friendly as anything else in the end. 

Bring on LED. and in the winter use incandescent.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

At one of my old workplaces we used to break those long fluorescent tubes while chucking them in the dumpster... probably dozens of them every year. Don't think anyone even considered it might be toxic.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> I have done no research, but I picture the so-called-environmentally friendly recycling of CFL bulbs going something like this: - Stores collect them and a 3rd party packs them in huge containers and pays some Chinese company to take them to China to recycle.
> 
> The cargo ends up in 2 possible places - 1. Some toxic city in China where children and pregnant women smash apart the bulbs and drain the mercury into buckets. 2. dumped into the ocean on the way to China. (or sorted at sea and the less profitable ones are dumped)


The only mercury in CFLs is mercury vapour. Once the glass is crushed the mercury is released into the atmosphere. There is no liquid mercury to collect, *so there is no profit in recycling these things *as the glass in the spiral bulbs has to be separated from the fluorescent coating and the base which is not recyclable.

Your theory on toxic waste disposal landfill in China or crushed and dumped in the oceans seems plausible, but there won't be any visible proof that is what's actually happening. 

*How does mercury help produce light in CFLs?*



> CFLs are glass tubes that are filled with argon gas and mercury vapor. When an electric current passes through the tube, the mercury emits ultraviolet light that excites a phosphor coating on the tube. The coating then emits light.


*Are we talking about high levels of mercury?*



> No. And the amount of mercury in CFLs has dropped steadily since they first made inroads into the market 15-20 years ago. As recently as 2007, CFLs contained about 5 milligrams, enough to cover a ballpoint pen tip. Since then, regulations in the European Union, which have also been adopted in California and other areas, have mandated that the amount of mercury in CFLs be limited to 3.5 mg by 2012 and 2.5 mg by 2013.





> GE spiral CFLs use an even smaller amount: 0.8-0.9 mg of mercury. Sándor Lukács, the CFL systems manager for GE Appliance & Lighting, said the company decided to rapidly cut the mercury content of its CFLS in the 1990s. “To put it in perspective,” Lukács said, “when I was a little child, I had a thermometer that had 1,000 times more mercury than the current CFLs.”


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

carverman said:


> The only mercury in CFLs is mercury vapour.


I have some clear (uncoated) glass flourescent tubes I use in an air cleaner- you can actually see the little drops of liquid mercury in them. I assumed CFL's would be the same.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> I have some clear (uncoated) glass flourescent tubes I use in an air cleaner- you can actually see the little drops of liquid mercury in them. I assumed CFL's would be the same.


These are probably a bit different..we are talking about the millions upon millions of spiral CFLs sold these days. 
There are some electrical lighting apparatus that has considerable mercury in them. 




> *What is lamp crushing and drum-top crushing?*





> Crushing is the intentional breaking of fluorescent and other mercury lamps for the purpose of volume reduction. *Crushing reduces the physical volume of lamps but does not recover any mercury.* Crushing is not recycling, but it can be a step in the process when the crushed material is further treated by a recycling process that includes retorting. Generally, hazardous waste lamps should not be landfilled as municipal solid waste. Authorized states have varying regulations regarding the handling, recycling and disposal of mercury-containing lamps. Handlers that choose to intentionally crush lamps must do so in accordance with authorized state programs. For more information specific to your state, contact your state environmental regulatory agency.
> 
> *It should be noted that lamp crushing can release mercury into the air and pose a health threat *to crusher operators and building occupants if the crusher is not operating properly. Lamp crushing can pose a threat if operators do not have the appropriate protective equipment.
> 
> Drum-top crushing is done using a mechanical device that fits on top of a 55-gallon collection drum. Whole lamps are broken in the system but components are not separated, and the *drum will contain hazardous mercury, phosphor powder, glass and mixed metals*. Crushing lamps into drums releases mercury into the filter, which also becomes hazardous.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

*The following types of bulbs contain mercury:*

Fluorescent, compact fluorescent, black lights.

High intensity discharge bulbs (HID). These bulbs are commonly used in security, outdoor and warehouse lighting. HID lighting is becoming popular for indoor use in commercial settings. 

The following are HID bulbs:
mercury vapor
metal halide
high pressure sodium
Ultraviolet bulbs
Neon bulbs

HID lighting can also used in vehicle headlamps. 
HID headlamps can be identified by their characteristic bluish-white tint when lit. Some halogen bulb manufacturers are now applying a blue coating to their bulbs which makes them look like HID bulbs when lit, however, halogen bulbs do not contain mercury.


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