# Barbaric or what? In Ontario, Canada?



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/solitary-confinement-ontario-prisons-adam-capay/article32527317/


> *Ontario minister refuses to release man from solitary who’s spent four years in isolation ... *


https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2016/10/25/release-adam-capay-from-solitary-confinement-editorial.html



> *It is the height of hypocrisy. Last week, as Correctional Services Minister David Orazietti was expressing his concern for prisoners held in solitary confinement in Ontario*, *a horrific example of the province’s treatment of prisoners *was underway in a Thunder Bay jail.
> 
> *There, a young aboriginal man named Adam Capay was in solitary confinement in a Plexiglas-lined jail cell, lit 24 hours a day, where he has been held for more than 1,500 days while he awaits trial. That’s right. Capay has been held for over four years without even being convicted of the crime for which he is being held in segregation *– the alleged killing of another inmate. ...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

He's been moved out of solitary into another cell with more "luxurious" privileges.



> "This individual has been moved from their cell," Corrections Minister David Orazietti said. "They are in a different location, with appropriate lighting and access to day rooms, spending time out of their cell for showers, phone calls and access to TV.
> 
> "It is my understanding, from speaking to officials, that the inmate is satisfied with the conditions they are presently in," he said.


www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/adam-capay-solitary-moved-1.3822748

Now, as a good public relations gesture, the Ministry of Correction should move the former Woodstock nurse into his old cell.:rolleyes2:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> He's been moved out of solitary into another cell with more "luxurious" privileges.
> 
> www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/adam-capay-solitary-moved-1.3822748
> 
> Now, as a good public relations gesture, the Ministry of Correction should move the former Woodstock nurse into his old cell.:rolleyes2:


 .... reminder: the nurse is innocent until proven guilty. 

His move to another "luxurious" cell is only temporary. I think the Corrections Minister himself should be given the test of being placed in his old cell, If this is too inhumane, then better yet, the CM be removed completely from office for his over-paid-arrogant-incompetency. :disgust: Or maybe he wants a version of Guantanamo Bay in Ontario? If it wasn't for the public outcry and the Human Rights commissioner intervention, that inmate will continue to languished in there as the CM wasn't going to bulge if you followed prior publications.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

One problem with the judicial system is that people who are charged with a crime and not convicted, are held in detention centers that are deemed maximum security because of the wide range of criminal charges pending.

In the Elgin Middlesex Dentention Center they had the Banditos motorcycle gang who massacred 6 fellow bikers in the same prison as people accused of not paying their alimony on time and sentenced to weekends in jail.

Something systemically wrong with that scenario, to my way of thinking. It is set up for problems.

The concept that all the prisoners will "be on good behavior" because they are pending trial doesn't work in real life.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Personally, I wouldn't find any comfort in making life more miserable for inmates, regardless of what they had done.

Taking away a person's liberty and freedom is a severe enough punishment, without adding on unpleasant conditions.

Paul Bernardo and others sit in tiny cells for 24 hours a day. They will never be free again. Wasted lives and lots of time to think about it.

It isn't where they are or what they have that makes them go gradually insane. It is where they can't be or ever have that does it.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> *Paul Bernardo and others sit in tiny cells for 24 hours a day*. They will never be free again. Wasted lives and lots of time to think about it.
> 
> It isn't where they are or what they have that makes them go gradually insane. It is where they can't be or ever have that does it.


Bernardo is a pervert and child killer. He deserves his current solitary accommodation in "Millhaven"? pen. 

Canada doesn't have capital punishment to "dispatch him" on his way to H*ll any faster, and he can never be set free because of what he did, because everyone knows that psychopaths can never be reformed. 
Turned loose on the population and he would start killing again. 
He's a lot like Clifford Olsen. 

So he is confined to rot in a cell until eventually old age, or some kind of disease takes him. 
If he's released into the general prison population, sooner or later, he would be found dead. I suppose that would be too good for him.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Bernardo's case is after trial with a conviction. The inmate in this story (above) hasn't even been tried but going through a torture regime. Two different situations here.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

I think there's an untold story here.

As the linked Star news story suggests, there appears to be a Charter of Rights breach. The article does not say, but the specific provision would be s. 11(b), which guarantees the right to a trial "within a reasonable time". Of course that phrase has been the topic of much judicial debate since the proclamation of the Charter, but I do not recall any court saying 4 years would be "reasonable".

The Supreme Court of Canada, in R. v. Jordan, 2016 SCC 27, has recently established a new framework for determining whether the delay in bringing a matter to trial is unreasonable, and set a ceiling of 30 months from the date of charge to the end of a superior court trial. A delay beyond that length of time is presumptively unreasonable unless justified by exceptional circumstances. The Crown bears the onus to rebut the presumption based on exceptional circumstances. If the Crown cannot do so then the proceedings will be stayed.

The Star article also says “He was originally in another Thunder Bay jail for misdemeanors at the age of 19”. The term “misdemeanor” is not a Criminal Code term. Seems that someone in the U.S. wrote the piece, complete with American spelling of "misdemeanour". But the suggestion seems to be that the accused was in Her Majesty’s Guesthouse for some mere trifle and would have been released years ago, but for being detained to await trial on the murder charge. But I am not sure he’s just some poor guy who has failed to make bail and is stuck there. It just might be there is an untold story about the sentence being served at the time of the alleged murder. It might still be running concurrently with time presently spent in detention. We are not told of his original warrant expiry date. Why not?

To the extent there appears to have been undue delay in getting to trial, the timeline set out in the CBC article cited, _supra_, post #2, suggests that much of the delay is due to defence tactics, such as a challenge to the array, a request for a psych assessment, etc. 

It is likely that, even with the latest pronouncement of the Supreme Court of Canada in R. v. Jordan, courts will continue to examine the reasons for delay in deciding what is unreasonable. Reasons for delay are generally placed in one of 3 groups: delay attributable to the Crown, delay attributable to the defence, and delay attributable to “inherent time requirements” and “institutional delay”. Judges are wise to the fact that some accused are content to let the clock run, to show little interest in getting to trial (indeed, to adopt tactics to increase delay), all with a view to making a s. 11(b) application on the eve of trial when that time finally arrives.

An oddity in this case is that the gravamen of all the gnashing of teeth in the press seems to be related to the accused being held in solitary. Little is said as to how that came about. Moreover, nothing is said about the fact that he has been represented by counsel nearly throughout and presumably counsel is aware of his institutional status. If counsel thought there should be an end to isolation, did he/she take it up with the accused’s custodians? Did anyone consider an application for a prerogative remedy…_habeas corpus_ anyone? Lots of detail lacking.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Great post MP..........

Journalists these days don't seem to have any interest at all in burrowing down into a story to get the full facts and the public is left with an "isn't this an awful situation" story.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I worked as a contractor in Edmonton Max, Bowden,and Drumheller med sec...prisoners are generally coddled...they need to work their way into seg. They get out of seg easily by being compliant. I have no sympathy.

Minor infractions are just a temporary removal of various privileges. Our jails are much better living conditions than Canada's poor live in...if I was stuck on welfare I would rob a bank to get into the pen.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> Great post MP..........


Thanks for that, sags. Every now and then I am blessed with a lucid moment:joyous:


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Europe is getting barbaric rapes of women by the religious radicals that think it is open season for women that seduce by not covering their heads  Forget political correctness check out some of the you tube videos Isis flags flying in Sweden, its getting crazy there


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Great post MP..........
> 
> Journalists these days don't seem to have any interest at all in burrowing down into a story to get the full facts and the public is left with an "isn't this an awful situation" story.


 ... journalists are not lawyers. At least the Human Rights Commissions is doing its job (and properly) in tihs case.


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