# Selling major items on Craig's List or Kijiji



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Suppose I have a major item for sale on CL. (or eBay or Kijiji). A buyer contacts me and is seriously interested in buying. he makes an offer that we accept. Let's say it is vehicle. 

Considering the scams reported even by those auction sites, what is the best way to arrange for payment so that bank cannot come back at us if they make the mistake of accepting the payment? This could be within Canada or cross border (USA).


----------



## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Not sure I'm clear on what you're asking, but you could always state that you'll only accept a bank draft.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

I've made numerous transactions through paypal and interact e-transfer and never had a problem. Make sure you request payment through your own paypal account. Don't fall victim to the scammers.

There are a lot of bank draft scams out there as well.


----------



## newuser (Sep 16, 2014)

Meet at the bank and witness the cash/bank draft withdrawal.


----------



## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm not so sure it would be the banks mistake if they accepted payment. You're the one accepting payment and need to assure it's legitimate, perhaps with their help. 

I've only used paypal on small amounts before and don't really know enough about it to comment as an option. 

An e-transfer has a limit amount equal to your debit/client card amount so not likely an option.

If a US transaction that likely adds a new wrinkle. 

I like newuser's suggestion and have done this a couple of times before- once with a $34K car and another time with a $7K motorcycle, both from Kijiji. I see them in person and know where their bank is, and have the rest of their vital information, and view the transaction receipt.

Since we don't know enough of the details of what exactly you're going to do I would suggest simply going to your financial institution and asking them what is the safest way to make a transaction if you aren't sure.


----------



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

If small amount, meet at ATM, and witness the withdrawal together.

If larger amount, meet at bank and witness the bankdraft withdrawal.


----------



## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

For the US an international postal money order, in Canada an E-Transfer, paypal works but does have high fee's. 

I've not heard about a limit on E-Transfer's related to debit cards as I do many E-Transfers far in excess of my card limit. 

I've bought motorcycles through ebay in the US, your other option is to deal through a broker.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Daniel A. said:


> I've not heard about a limit on E-Transfer's related to debit cards as I do many E-Transfers far in excess of my card limit.


Each institution places their own limits on: single transaction, daily total, 7 day totals, etc. They vary quite a bit by institution. Typically outgoing limits are lower than receiving limits (the latter seemingly not making sense but it does if one is receiving e-transfers from multiple insitutions).


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

As mentioned in original post, I would be selling a major item. Let's say in $20-$30k range. Could be a car or boat. This would eliminate a number of the suggestions that work for smaller amounts.

Regarding bank drafts, there are many stories of scams on-line. This is one from cbc.. There are even scams when using escrow services.

Cash is best (unless counterfeit!). But hard to expect buyer to carry $20-$30k in cash. 

Unless selling to someone local with a local bank and home, it seems it is a case of seller beware?


----------



## iherald (Apr 18, 2009)

Why not bring the item to the the buyers bank, go in, get a certified check directly from the bank teller, then go immediately to your bank. If the bank is the one giving you the certified check, I'd think you'd be able to reasonably rely upon it.


----------



## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

You're ignoring some of the advice on here and that was included in your link. Sellers should accompany the buyer to their bank and witness the bank draft. 

I also suggested going to your financial institution to ask for their advice so that you avoid accepting payment that is not legitimate. 

Perhaps you are telling us this is a long distance US/Canada transaction, and this is not possible to witness the bank draft or carry 20K in cash over the border.


----------



## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

A broker would be the best avenue.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

slacker said:


> If small amount, meet at ATM, and witness the withdrawal together.


Highly unlikely that the buyer will want the seller to witness his withdrawal at an ATM, especially if the buyer is suspicious, Not a good place to meet any
prospective buyers from a safety perspective as you never know if they are legit or just scammers. 

You have to be very careful these days *selling vehicles to strangers* as there is more fraud going on these days. 

Another other problem could be if you demand cash, they could slip in some counterfeit. 

You really need to see the buyers driver's licence and other forms of id, before you sign the vehicle over and make out a bill of sale, and make sure you remove your plates on your property.

Make a note of the vehicle they drive, and the license plate on the vehicle at your place as they will have to come to your place to
pickup the vehicle, which presents a problem for them as they will not have any plates on that vehicle to drive away, once you have your vehicle plates
removed. 

Be careful about allowing any test drives with your plates, with you in the car and you driving the car to their place, as you don't know what can
happen once you get there. The buyer can tell you that they need the car at their place before the plates are removed..that could leave you vulnerable
if they are scammers or criminals.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Continuing on selling and buying vehicles.

Buying vehicles online such as advertised in AutoTrader and other online vehicle sites is very risky these days. The pictures can be deceiving, as the fraudsters take pictures of any vehicle, even parked in a parking lot and obliterate the plates so that you cannot trace to who the vehicle is registered.
One the fraudsters find a "bite" using this bait (usually listed for several thousand cheaper than the going rate for year and model), they will send you emails posing as legitimate owners to get you interested, then "set up financing" on "eBaymotors" to have the transaction done, promising to deliver the vehicle to your door once they receive the money. This can be a "tag team" organization with two or more people handing the sale.

The owner, and a third party that claims to be a financier knowing how to do these deals for the owner's "safety'. 
Especially if the "owner" happens to take on the identity of a woman. 




> The woman said she was searching Craigslist for a larger vehicle for her expanded family when she found the ad for the SUV. The seller identified himself in emails as Antonio Baker and emailed several photographs of the vehicle. He told her that all details would be handled through eBay Motors, which would provide free shipping and a five-day money-back guarantee.
> 
> An apparently bogus email from eBay Buyer Protection told her it would hold the funds until receiving a confirmation that she was satisfied with the vehicle. "Only then we will release the funds to the seller," said the email, which requested payment by MoneyGram or Western Union.
> 
> ...


http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-Car-Scams-on-Craigslist

They also can set it up through direct wire payments using Moneygram or Western Union.

Many prospective buyers have been scammed out of thousands this way, with no recourse to recover their money.

Finally this is what AutoTrader is advising:



> *How to Buy a Used Vehicle Safely*





> Contact the customer directly by the phone number listed on our site. If it does not work, do not go about solely through e-mail. Most cases of fraud are e-mail based.
> Make sure to arrange a meeting with the seller so that you may see the listed vehicle. If the seller refuses to allow you to inspect the vehicle, stop the deal : it is probably a case of fraud.
> Never share personal information (banking information, passwords, credit card numbers, etc.) and do not transfer money via wire funds (Western Union, Money Gram, etc.).
> Enjoy your new vehicle once everything has been completed!





> How to Sell a Used Vehicle Safely





> You have settled on a price and have designed and written an attractive ad for your vehicle. Now, who do you choose to sell to?
> Be honest with your buyer if your vehicle has any issues, make sure to meet the customer and provide them with answers to any questions they may have. If a customer contacts you willing to buy your car without having seen it or asking any questions, it is highly likely that he\she is a fraudulent buyer.
> Make sure the prospective buyer has a valid driver's license, especially if he\she is going to be taking your car for a test drive.
> Never share personal information (banking information, passwords, credit card numbers, etc.) and do not transfer money via wire funds (Western Union, Money Gram, etc.).
> *Once having selected a buyer, make sure you collect the payment by a certified cheque or cash,* do not accept a personal cheque.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

RBull said:


> You're ignoring some of the advice on here and that was included in your link.


Not sure why you would say that - I am not ignoring anything or anyone. 

Appreciate carverman's and other detailed posts. Selling or buying on-line is problematical these days. When posting an ad on autotrader or Kijiji or CL, you have to expect inquiries from out of your immediate area. Conclusion of sale if parties are working people often needs to be on a weekend when banks are closed. 

I have two items for sale at present. So far 90% of the inquiries have been of a fraudulent nature. 

Daniel, regarding brokers - If a broker is used and they accept what turns out to be a fraudulent payment , how would that affect the seller? 

One site suggests the following which although good advice, may not always be practical. How many buyers would be prepared to wait 30 days for their certified cheque to clear?


> Confirm contact information
> 
> Be wary of buyers willing to purchase your item sight-unseen, especially buyers located overseas. Always verify the buyer's street address and valid phone number.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input so far. Good discussion!


----------



## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^The answer is contained in the rest of my post. You're obviously marketing to people outside of your local area then, otherwise the solution is much more simple. 

I would stay vigilant about doing the final financial transaction part of the process during normal business hours/days etc. when banking is involved. Anyone serious about a large item is going to understand this and accommodate it. Anyone unwilling isn't worth the risk. 

I would also be interested in hearing about the broker- what is the commission involved, the process, the financial terms etc

I hope you find a solution, and a cessation of bogus inquiries. 

Good luck.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

agent99 said:


> One site suggests the following which although good advice, may not always be practical. How many buyers would be prepared to wait 30 days for their certified cheque to clear?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^^^ Herein lies the problem when you are dealing with strangers who may or may not be legit (scammers).
let's say, you have a vehicle for sale and are contacted by email (from the site you have listed the vehicle) and the buyer is "interested" in your vehicle, but he.she cannot come
to your locale to view the vehicle, take it for a test ride and arrange for payment by giving you cash.

The buyer isn't going to wait 30 days to get his bankdraft or cashiers check or certified check to clear. Certified does mean that the bank will put a hold in the buyers bank account
for the full amount of the certified check, but that is provided the certified check is REAL. The machine can be purchased by criminals. 


*Certified Checks*



> When you deposit a bank check such as a certified check or cashier's check, the bank is required by federal law to make the funds available to you on the next business day. *This doesn't mean the money has actually cleared the bank or that the check is legitimate*.
> 
> *Con artists rely on this fact to steal your money.* If anyone gives you a bank check and asks you to wire him money under any pretense, you are likely dealing with a check scam and the check will turn out to be counterfeit. The bank will then ask you for its money back, but the person who scammed you will be long gone.
> 
> *This type of scam works the same way regardless of whether the con artist sends you a certified check or a cashier's check, but there are differences between the two*. Cashier's checks are drawn on the issuing bank's own funds, so they are often seen as a low-risk way to accept payment, according to a consumer advisory by the U.S. Treasury Department.


So someone can hand you a fake certified check, printed on a computer and you won't know it until your bank notifies you that the check is bogus.
If you have signed over the ownership and provided a bill of sale to the buyer..you are SOL!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

More on *bogus certified checks*..



> Spotting a fake check can be tricky. Here are some tip-offs to the rip-offs:
> 
> *1. Edges:* Most legit checks have at least one perforated or rough edge. If all edges are smooth, the check may have been printed from a personal computer.
> 
> ...


----------

