# I see Revenue Canada have finally...



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

.....stopped using those stupid envelopes, that opened upside down backwards....
(just got my refunds in da mail)👳*♂


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Why are you getting actual cheques when direct deposit has been available for quite a long time? Like someone said somewhere else on some forum, didn't they start 'refusing' to do that just like CPP and OAS?

Edited for context.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Just be thankful you have a cheque and not an installment notification!

As above, if it is such a big deal switch to direct deposit. You may even get your refund a little earlier.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

what? and open another door to have all my personal info hacked online??
nothing like opening a letter....with a nice fat cheque in it....


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Good to hear you checked the box to keep your info on separate computers that are not connected to the internet! :biggrin:


Oh wait ... that box went away decades ago ... :rolleyes2:

Cheers


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

jargey3000 said:


> what? and open another door to have all my personal info hacked online??
> nothing like opening a letter....with a nice fat cheque in it....


Yeah, good idea. Don't give too much personal information to CRA. Just your tax return, your address, your age, your income, where you work, your spouses name, your spouses income, your social insurance number, your spouses social insurance number, how much you made in interest and dividends, where you earned your interest and dividends, and how much money you have out side the country and that's it. 

Don't give them anymore and you should be safe.


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## Chica (Jan 19, 2016)

OptsyEagle said:


> Yeah, good idea. Don't give too much personal information to CRA. Just your tax return, your address, your age, your income, where you work, your spouses name, your spouses income, your social insurance number, your spouses social insurance number, how much you made in interest and dividends, where you earned your interest and dividends, and how much money you have out side the country and that's it.
> 
> Don't give them anymore and you should be safe.


LOL 

I used to work at the head office of a credit union and the CRA knows where you bank. We got many demands from CRA to go into client's accounts and provide the CRA with deposit information. And for free. We weren't allowed to charge them an hourly service fee or for each page of paper we printed. Or allowed to refuse their request.

Just in case anyone was thinking of doing any funny activity with their bank account like hiding income from the CRA....


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

jargey3000 said:


> what? and open another door to have all my personal info hacked online??
> nothing like opening a letter....with a nice fat cheque in it....


Terribly old school young fella. As mentioned by others, you're deluding yourself. 

Why do you think anything in Canada Post snail mail is safe? Sorting plant workers pilfer mail, thieves break into postal boxes, etc, etc. Snail mail is the last place I would trust moving money.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

^ I'm sure outgoing mail from the CRA, in May, in standard brown government cheque sized envelopes, wouldn't catch the eye of any unscrupulous mail sorters.... Maybe it's just a letter of recognition/thanks for taxes well paid? :tongue:


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

A bit off topic, but why would you consider a refund to be a good thing? They're only giving you your own money back. You've given CRA an interest free loan.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We do installments. Our challenge is that we never know what our respective tax liability will be until Nov/Dec/Jan. Plus, we do a fair amount of juggling in order minimize the our combined tax liability and OAS clawback. Don't want to pay non deductable interest on our taxes owing. The HISA interest rates are so low that it does not matter to us if the Gov't uses our money for a few months. One of us typically gets a refund amounting to the last installement, the other generally has to cough up some extra money.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Pension income splitting pretty much guarantees I will get a refund and spouse has to pay.... since I split my pension income with her AND CRA does not seem to consider that in their installment letter. I just pay whatever CRA says to pay in installments and the rest just falls out from there come April 30th. Net-net, she pays more on Apr 30 than I get in refund so that is the way it should be. There is no non-deductible interest owing of one follows whatever CRA says my installments should be.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Same here, exactly.

Except for I don't know how many years my spouse has accused me of something short of murder because she, with no employment or pension income, has always had to pay for the past 15 years or so. Not that it really matters.

We have no issue paying income tax. It means we have income. We have traveled in enough countries to realize just how good life truly is in Canada. No matter what political party happens to be in power.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I s'pose you'd all be disgusted with me if you knew i still did my tax returns the 'old-fashioned' way...by hand, with pen & calculator in hand...filling in the blanks on the paper returns...then trot down the street to drop them in the mail slot at the local CRA bldg. ....:cocksure:


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

We have a museum out here in Drumheller, Alberta that has specimens like you on display ;-)


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

jargey3000 said:


> ...... you'd all be disgusted with me if you knew i still did my tax returns the 'old-fashioned' way...by hand, with pen & calculator in hand...filling in the blanks on the paper returns...then trot down the street to drop them in the mail slot at the local CRA bldg.......


It's so much easier with a computer, and you're able to test all sorts of "what-if's".

Can you tell us why you do this - you obviously have a computer?

ltr


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> I s'pose you'd all be disgusted with me if you knew i still did my tax returns the 'old-fashioned' way...by hand, with pen & calculator in hand...filling in the blanks on the paper returns...then trot down the street to drop them in the mail slot at the local CRA bldg. ....:cocksure:


Puzzled ... not disgusted.

'Course you are aren't the most puzzling as my co-worker uses a spreadsheet to check then write in on the paper. Canada Post is used instead of physical exercise.


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Puzzled ... not disgusted.


I'd say puzzled as well. 

Tax software eliminates possibility of calculation errors and even potentially missing deductions and/or optimization of returns between spouses, especially with pension income splitting. I could not imagine going a paper return given so many complexities.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Agree. We no longer need an accountant so I do them on line. I always did a pro forma even when they went to the accountant. Lots of double checking built into the various programs. What I appreciate is the end button where we minimize tax and clawback with the most beneficial pension income splitting calculation.

And even just as helpful....the carry forward data from the previous year(s) if you happen to be using the same software every year.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

My last paper returns were in 2000. I use FutureTax. $12.59 for 10 returns, and I file 7 returns for various family members. Our two, plus children and their spouses and wife's sister. Works out to $1.80 per return. So easy, cheap, and "What if" scenarios are invaluable.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

twa2w said:


> We have a museum out here in Drumheller, Alberta that has specimens like you on display ;-)


:cocksure:

are there any good, free, tax return software packages..?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Just knew you might ask that.... Studio Tax is one and is a software package that resides on one's computer. Simpletax resides on a server I believe. I use Studio Tax for 'what ifs'


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Also gennutax.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

which free software is most widely-used?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Don't think anyone knows but Studio Tax is likely it.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Turbo Tax has a free download for simple returns as well as on-line versions; but generally I get one of the paid versions that transfer previous year's info. In the words of John T Arbuckle, inventor of modern coffee roaster, "You get what you pay for".

https://turbotax.intuit.ca/personal-tax-software/download-tax-software.jsp

https://turbotax.intuit.ca/personal-tax-software/online-tax-software.jsp


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I started using Studio Tax a few years ago for doing pro forma returns prior so I could anticipate what the accountant;s view would be. Our situation changed and we no longer need the services of an accountant. I now use Studio Tax to file. One thing that I like is the program and my data resides on my system. It works for us.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Userkare said:


> Turbo Tax has a free download for simple returns as well as on-line versions; but generally I get one of the paid versions that transfer previous year's info. In the words of John T Arbuckle, inventor of modern coffee roaster, "You get what you pay for".
> 
> https://turbotax.intuit.ca/personal-tax-software/download-tax-software.jsp
> 
> https://turbotax.intuit.ca/personal-tax-software/online-tax-software.jsp


Yeah, I've always used Turbo Tax. On sale every year it costs $29. You pay thousands in taxes, so $29 isn't worth even talking about.

ltr


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I'd say puzzled as well.
> 
> Tax software eliminates possibility of calculation errors and even potentially missing deductions and/or optimization of returns between spouses, especially with pension income splitting. I could not imagine going a paper return given so many complexities.


I have been using CanTax since the 80s. My brother did it all by hand. He had never touched a computer. I asked him why and he said because he liked doing it. It made him feel in control of his taxes. He used a 2H pencil until he was sure.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I used Studio Tax the first time on someone's recommendation. Does the trick for us. It does carry forward our data. Accountant seemed to think that it was a good program so we simply stuck with it when we switched from pro forma use to actually completing/submitting our own tax returns. 

I would never bother with anything that did not have a carry forward features etc.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree that the 'carry forward' features are of significant importance. I use UFile myself for our tax returns, but Studio Tax does just fine.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I see a number of people mentioning their accountant.....so, am I also in the stone age minority by NOT having an accountant on retainer to add up my numbers for me....?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

jargey3000 said:


> I see a number of people mentioning their accountant.....so, am I also in the stone age minority by NOT having an accountant on retainer to add up my numbers for me....?


No, it's not needed. For most of us, a simple tax program is all you need. I would suspect those with accountants have their own business. For the usual working stiff with a brokerage portfolio anywhere up to 10 million, you can simply do your own taxes on your computer. It's easy.

Stop that paper return nonsense jargey, are you nuts !!!!!! 

ltr


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

haha.....stuck in the sixties!...lol


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> I see a number of people mentioning their accountant.....so, am I also in the stone age minority by NOT having an accountant on retainer to add up my numbers for me....?


We had an accountant for our ON registered business but he basically blessed the output we provided to him on QuickBooks once a year.

DW had a bookkeeper, an accountant and a tax preparer for her business. When I retired, I took it over for a much lower annual charge. Found a number of expense deductions she was not taking. GIGO


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## Chica (Jan 19, 2016)

jargey3000 said:


> I see a number of people mentioning their accountant.....so, am I also in the stone age minority by NOT having an accountant on retainer to add up my numbers for me....?


I'm a procrastinator and I get frustrated with tax software programs so I've been using an accountant for many years. I get a reminder email in March and start gathering everything I need and take it in. Costs $125 but what would it cost me to constantly file late and work myself up into high anxiety due to the difficulty of doing my own taxes.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Chica said:


> I'm a procrastinator and I get frustrated with tax software programs so I've been using an accountant for many years. I get a reminder email in March and start gathering everything I need and take it in. Costs $125 but what would it cost me to constantly file late and work myself up into high anxiety due to the difficulty of doing my own taxes.


Unless you are innumerate, gathering everything is most of the work, especially now that all the tax forms are there already. You need to gather is other data which you are already doing.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> I see a number of people mentioning their accountant.....so, am I also in the stone age minority by NOT having an accountant on retainer to add up my numbers for me....?


From what I have read .... most that have an accountant have something like a business, a complicated situation or similar that they wanted an accountant for.
Some, once the situation became routine switched to using the software only. Others like those running a business stick with the accountant. 

In a few cases, people regretted using an accountant.


Like a lot of other things ... YMMV as to whether it makes sense or not.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Chica said:


> I'm *a procrastinator and I get frustrated with tax software programs* so I've been using an accountant for many years. I get a reminder email in March and start gathering everything I need and take it in. Costs $125 but what would it cost me to constantly file late and work myself up into high anxiety due to the difficulty of doing my own taxes.


It seems an expensive reminder system to gather the data needed ... unless there's something exotic about the return/structures.

I am curious as to what in tax software causes frustration. I have been annoyed at the interface once in while but so far, never frustrated.




kcowan said:


> Unless you are innumerate, gathering everything is most of the work, especially now that all the tax forms are there already. You need to gather is other data which you are already doing.


Well I would add in that where there is something complicated or different as another reason to potentially use the accountant.

OTOH, most people I know have a relatively simple return so gathering the info the accountant needs is a large chunk of the work. Assuming of course, one is comfortable with computers.



Cheers


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## Chica (Jan 19, 2016)

I suck at numbers. I'd be crying and working myself up into a high state of anxiety getting frustrated at myself because I'm not smart enough to understand how to figure out tax forms, which would force me to file late because I simply can not do it. 

I have a lot of tax slips that the accountant deals with from the job, RSP contributions, charity donations, etc. I have to manually write up and total expense related to support enforcement plus the total of how much the deadbeat paid. Plus I get a little writing income and I have some deductions. There's no way I could even possibly begin to figure all that out.

Rather than me breaking down sobbing for hours at my stupidity with numbers and then just not getting around to filing taxes, using an accountant helps me get my act together before the deadline and no crying and no high levels of stress. Not everyone is good at numbers and following instructions or able to understand instructions. I'd never be able to put something together from IKEA either.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We used an accountant for a number of years as needed. Also used her services for forward tax planning (very advantageous). Now retired our financial situation has changed. Now it is a matter of firing up the program, inputting the data as requested, etc and then pushing the button for the max. pension sharing amounts.

Then I sit on it for a week or so. Go back and compare it to prior years numbers to make certain that I have not omitted anything. This part or the process works well for me as it sometimes encourages me to double check certain areas.

Sounds like a long process. Actually, getting the necessary slips/papers together can take longer than the time it takes to complete the first pass of the program.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Chica said:


> I suck at numbers. I'd be crying and working myself up into a high state of anxiety getting frustrated at myself because I'm not smart enough to understand how to figure out tax forms, which would force me to file late because I simply can not do it. I have a lot of tax slips that the accountant deals with from the job, RSP contributions, charity donations, etc ...


Which would drive some to use the tax software as the computer takes care of the math, what line item needs to be transferred to what other place - based on entering the numbers from the slips into the correct boxes.
As long as the form name matches up, it is simply putting the matching numbers where they belong (ex. T4 box 40 goes into computer form T4 box 40, RRSP contribution made in the first sixty days in the year number goes into RRSP contribution made in the first sixty days in the year.




Chica said:


> ... I have to manually write up and total expense related to support enforcement plus the total of how much the deadbeat paid. Plus I get a little writing income and I have some deductions. There's no way I could even possibly begin to figure all that out ...


So far, the part that does not sound like it would fit well is the support enforcement with total paid.




Chica said:


> ... Rather than me breaking down sobbing for hours at my stupidity with numbers and then just not getting around to filing taxes, using an accountant helps me get my act together before the deadline and no crying and no high levels of stress. Not everyone is good at numbers and following instructions or able to understand instructions. I'd never be able to put something together from IKEA either.


The software makes it more a matching task (i.e. received two T3 forms, enter the boxes for two T3 forms) than a numbers/transfer to the correct line, check for math errors etc. that it used to be. If you are happy with what you are doing, then by all means, keep up with it.


Cheers


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

ian said:


> Sounds like a long process. Actually, getting the necessary slips/papers together can take longer than the time it takes to complete the first pass of the program.


Yes I do the same thing. First pass gets all the T-slips from CRA, then input my medical receipts, then do comparatives to make sure nothing major is missing. Then think about it and check for omissions. Finally netfile.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

When I make a change to the return, prior to submission, I change one line item. The program adjusts everything else. 

The other plus is that I have a running total of tax due on the side bar. I can easily do whatifs by changing one line and viewing the bottom line impact on the tax payable sidebar. No erasers, not scribbling etc.

Email it in. Get an acknowledgement. Then comes a date that the return will assessed. Usually within five or six business days. If a refund is due it also tells us when the deposit will hit our bank account.

If we need to make a subsequent change, we simply log into our respective CRA account and do a change order on line. 

I think that the whole process is quite slick. 

For many I would think that the programs that have you answer a questionaire up front are very good inasmuch as they will prompt you as you go along. Plus, they will point out errors. Then there is the basic arithmetic check.
It is easy to get sloppy or to overlook something.

A few months ago I mentioned to my BIL that he could in fact deduct his Blue Cross medical insurance payments as a medical expense. He went in on line, made the requisite changes. He got a tax refund of $1500 two weeks ago. Took him longer to go through his records to find the correct amounts than it did to file the changes.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

ian said:


> Sounds like a long process. Actually, getting the necessary slips/papers together can take longer than the time it takes to complete the first pass of the program.


I do the same as you. As for getting the slips together, I don't need to. As they come in, I put them on top of the china cabinet; when I'm ready to input the numbers, all the slips are in one place.


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