# Trader vs Investor



## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

Are you an investor or a trader? or both? Which method works better in the long run for everyone here?:biggrin:


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

A trader by nature, an investor by choice :biggrin: Don't know about the long run yet, but for now a mix of index ETFs and individual stocks keeps me interested and committed to saving and investing (without giving my husband anxiety attacks lol)

What about you?


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## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

Trader turned investor, and for good reason  Trading keeps me up and wired all night, while investing helps me sleep. I don't do much ETFs, mainly individual stocks and income funds. In the long run, I believe investing is more sensible as it is more predictable and can be played more cautiously in the sense that you have time to 'plan your next move'. 

In trading, William Bernstein, a PhD and writer says it very well, and I quote, “You have to start from the premise that, as you buy or sell a stock or bond, there is someone on the other side of the trade,” Bernstein says. “Odds are good that the person on the other side has an I.Q. of 160 and has better access to information and systems than you do. It’s like playing tennis with someone you can’t see, and that person is Venus Williams.” 

In investing, you can play based on different logic such as psychology and economic theories and common sense which eliminates playing tennis with Venus Williams 

Your husband should be proud of you!


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Investor...only buy index fund/broad-based ETF for long term.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Why can't you be both?

Just like asset allocation, you can portion of a bit of your funds to gamble with.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Just like a poker game the money will flow to the strongest player/players most sitting @ the table will lose. (money flows to the casino)

Do you think casinos would be around if they did not have the odds fixed in their favor to win more then they payout? If someone was not making money in the market do you think their would be a market?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Investor. Buy and hold about 40 stocks and index invest everything else.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Investor 98% of the time but will use a small percentage to take advantage of when I think the market has it wrong or if there's been a big gain. 

For example, sold one of the my energy trusts when it spike $4 at the start of the Gulf war that the media was warning would be long/drawn out then re-bought when it dropped. Another example is after watching Agrium climb from $28 to $113, as it seemed there was trouble ahead for more than a few stocks - sold two thirds then re-bought for about $40.


Cheers


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## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

hm.... interesting... seems everyone prefers investing over trading. Any traders out there?


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## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

i agree lightcycle,

but the question is which method works best for you in the long run?


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Vicjai said:


> Any traders out there?


They sold in May and went away :biggrin:


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

I think there are a lot of position traders & buy & holders on the site, not a lot of day traders. The position traders are likely calling themselves investors.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

lonewolf said:


> The position traders are likely calling themselves investors.


Because that's what they are, investors!



Vicjai said:


> but the question is *which method works best for you* in the long run?


That question only you can answer for yourself.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

T.Gal your right it is best to follow a method that fits your personality.


I guess I m just old back in the late 70s early 80s after a long sideways market. (over decade long 4th wave) Seldom did I hear the word investor revered to someone that played the stock market the term that I most often herd was speculator or gambler. The bull market that is completing five up from the 1982 low has changed the psychology of the masses from the odds of being high to losing money in the markets to odds being high of making money in the markets. 

When the terms speculating & gambling become the norm over investing a better long term buying opportunity will be present.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Investor because I don't have the systems to trade.
1. I really suck at figuring out a good sell point, so I don't have the cash.
2. There are so many things I want to buy, I'd go crazy if I made more than a purchase every few months.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Vicjai said:


> but the question is which method works best for you in the long run?


By the numbers, investor works best for me, but (swing) trader relieves the itch!


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## Getafix (Dec 29, 2014)

I started investing at the beginning of the year. Most of the money has gone in maxing out our TFSA's but i have some 'play money' that i use for swing trades. So far it's been hit or miss for me, made a lot of money but two or three bad trades took most of it away. I'm up overall, but i'm still learning from experience and every trade is teaching me something new, so i'm going to keep at it for a while. I work evenings, so it's something to keep myself occupied with during the day.


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## Fain (Oct 11, 2009)

Trader


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## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

Getafix said:


> I started investing at the beginning of the year. Most of the money has gone in maxing out our TFSA's but i have some 'play money' that i use for swing trades. So far it's been hit or miss for me, made a lot of money but two or three bad trades took most of it away. I'm up overall, but i'm still learning from experience and every trade is teaching me something new, so i'm going to keep at it for a while. I work evenings, so it's something to keep myself occupied with during the day.


I hear you Getafix. All you need to do is have only 1 bad trade and it will wipe away your 3 or 5 good trades, its what happened to me. 

ps. I used to love reading Asterix and still think its one of the best comics around after so many years btw each:


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Vicjai said:


> I hear you Getafix. All you need to do is have only 1 bad trade and it will wipe away your 3 or 5 good trades, its what happened to me.
> 
> ps. I used to love reading Asterix and still think its one of the best comics around after so many years btw each:


That's why it's so important to avoid bad trades.
I've passed up innumerable good/great trades because of a single red or orange flag.

Because of this, I've made IMO relatively few mistakes for the number of successes, which suits me just fine.


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## Getafix (Dec 29, 2014)

Vicjai said:


> ps. I used to love reading Asterix and still think its one of the best comics around after so many years btw each:


Yeah, it used to be my favorite childhood comic (along with Tintin). Cool to know someone recognizes my username, usually people haven't heard of it!


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## Getafix (Dec 29, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> That's why it's so important to avoid bad trades.
> I've passed up innumerable good/great trades because of a single red or orange flag.
> 
> Because of this, I've made IMO relatively few mistakes for the number of successes, which suits me just fine.


Would be interesting to hear what rules you've set for yourself for making trades. I'm making up a set of rules as i go along, so that i don't repeat past mistakes. For example, i used to trade a lot of biotech stocks as they're very volatile. Usually for smaller amounts, so i could get average down if necessary. Now i'm thinking of going for less volatile stocks and increasing the amount so that i don't have to rely on larger margins for a trade.

Would be interesting to hear what other people do or avoid doing. Like what sort criteria do you have in order to consider a stock for a day/swing trade?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Vicjai said:
> 
> 
> > ... but the question is which method works best for you in the long run?
> ...


+1 ... there's lots of variables that will affect one's success as a trader. 

For me - the trump factor is that I work full time so there is only limited opportunity to react to changes.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

lonewolf said:


> T.Gal your right it is best to follow a method that fits your personality.


 ... plus what one has time for etc. etc.




lonewolf said:


> I guess I m just old back in the late 70s early 80s after a long sideways market. (over decade long 4th wave) Seldom did I hear the word investor revered to someone that played the stock market the term that I most often herd was speculator or gambler...


 ... whereas having an uncle who invested - I heard the term all the time in the 70's, including from my parents who had tried to benefit from my uncle's advice but due to timing issues, lost money.

YMMV ...


Cheers


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## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... plus what one has time for etc. etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes Eclectic12, i agree with you and Getafix that trading is all about timing. I'm also interested in knowing the parameters in which MrMatt uses to trade. Because the general nature of trading involves you seeing into the immediate future, a prediction must be made about that, where nobody can know the immediate future 100% of the time as there are simply too many factors known and unknown that can influence an outcome. Moreover, the people on the other side (one must assume) are smarter than you, have more information than you, can process and react to that information faster than you. Again, from experience it only took 1 bad trade to erase all my trade profits, so if there are any successful traders out there, please share your knowledge, as we'd love to pick your brain, not literally ofcourseeach:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^

I remember laughing after dot-com bust ... some trader thought they'd do well with the run of the mill web trades bank brokerages offered and then lost a fortune as he couldn't get out quick enough when the crash happened. In those days, a live trader had to review/approve the online trade so it seemed a doomed way to operate (i.e. day traders with top notch trade execution versus this guy with the waiting period until a live person could review/approve the trade submitted online.).


Cheers


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

I consider myself an investor (indexer) except in my TFSA. I go all out on speculative positions but only those where I think I have an edge. Some of those edges are "iffy". My index positions a >90% of my $.

As an example, my son works for a Cdn Sm Cap High Tech company. He mentioned that if the project he was working on worked, it would be cheaper for the customers to buy the company than the product. My son is great technically but not that smart financially. I went all in and soon doubled my stake. Haven't yet unloaded it simply because I haven't found a better place. 

I also play a bit in my former industry. Only trade a few times a year. I wish I had the cojones to back all my speculative plays to about 50% of max (I have lost it all on occasion), I'd be one of those guys that CRA is after because of their TFSA balance. Mine is under $80K without the 015 $10K addition.


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## Vicjai (May 15, 2015)

LBCfan said:


> I consider myself an investor (indexer) except in my TFSA. I go all out on speculative positions but only those where I think I have an edge. Some of those edges are "iffy". My index positions a >90% of my $.
> 
> As an example, my son works for a Cdn Sm Cap High Tech company. He mentioned that if the project he was working on worked, it would be cheaper for the customers to buy the company than the product. My son is great technically but not that smart financially. I went all in and soon doubled my stake. Haven't yet unloaded it simply because I haven't found a better place.
> 
> I also play a bit in my former industry. Only trade a few times a year. I wish I had the cojones to back all my speculative plays to about 50% of max (I have lost it all on occasion), I'd be one of those guys that CRA is after because of their TFSA balance. Mine is under $80K without the 015 $10K addition.


Now did you put in 80K or did you make 80K? If you made 80K from allowable contributions, i applaud you! I hope its the latter cuz CRA will really be on your case. My friend was penalized 20K for some sort of tax under-reporting he did for a couple years in stocks and various investments so I would be very careful on how to treat your situation ! each:


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## alexasmith (Sep 30, 2014)

I think traders can also make a lot of money. To be a successful trader you must have proper understanding of the market. Understand the risk and tolerance, Study about forex and latest trends. I think with knowledge and information this can be done easily.


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## Randy (Jun 3, 2015)

I am actually Day Trader having small investment on my trading account.


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