# Deal death ??



## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Is there any communication?


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

Don't brokers have a financial interest if the deal closes? I'd listen to my lawyer over a broker any day. When you move in on closing day the house has to be the same as when you last inspected it. Anything major happened on closing day? Or was it something in the agreement that the seller didn't repair or do properly? I'd push your lawyer to make sure the seller lives up to their end of the agreement.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I would take my lawyers opinion over agents in a heartbeat.

Having said that what is the issue? Is it something small, that the sellers don't want to give on and the agents can agree to eat the cost out of their commission or is it a major structural issue?

If it was found on a home inspection, I believe they would have to disclose to future buyers.


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

abroad said:


> There was a big barn (for livestock) on the property, with a seperate hydro meter. This one was disconnected, so we could not inspect the water pumps or take a sample, as agreed upon in the contract. We have been requesting to hook up the hydro (prior to closing day) so we could do our inspection, which we are entitled to. But so far the sellers have been ignoring our request (which is also requested by both brokers and our lawyer). Probably they will need an inspection (of the electrical wiring ESA) by the hydro company, before the hydro will be hooked up again.


Well that's a bouquet of red flags if I ever heard it.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Are you referring to water pumps for just the barn? Have they stopped using the barn and as a result disconnected the power from it? And do not want to pay the cost of reactivating it?


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

This could be a very big problem especially with the wells. I worked on a horse farm and I can assure you that with certain types of pumps if the power goes off the silt goes down an plugs a little flapper valve. Of course you can't really appreciate the enormity of the situation until you start lugging five gallon pails of water for your horses. Some will drink over 10 gallons per day. We had 50 stalls in the barn and about 40 horses.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

What you basically want is to force the owner to complete the sale, and either pay the costs themselves or pay you the compensation.

It sounds like the owner has refused to offer compensation and has decided to let the deal fall apart.

You could take legal action against the owners, but the costs would outweigh any benefit.

The owners should have lived up to their responsibilities..........but they didn't and it doesn't sound like they will.

You can complete the sale and pay the costs yourself...............or walk away.

If the closing date was not extended on the purchase contract...........the deal is already over, unless both buyer and seller agree to extend the date.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If its a standard pump, couldn't you bring in a portable 220v generator and hook it up to the pump? A rental for a genset may be significantly less than hooking up hydro. 

Then again, if they are willing to let the deal fall through over a couple hundred bucks, chances are they know there are bigger problems that they don't want to admit to.


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

Listen to your lawyer, of course...this is where they earn their money!

In general, not fulfilling part of a contract does NOT automatically mean the entire contract can be voided. This is true in real estate as well with regard to unfulfilled terms, so be careful. You may still have to close and then deal with it, or you can stand firm...this is where your lawyer's advice is critical.

In general, if you do not close, you could potentially be sued by the sellers, despite them not fulfilling all terms, and the penalty could be steep (all costs associated with not closing, re-listing, etc). You do NOT automatically forfeit your deposit, contrary to popular thought (though often the damages/costs are high enough that you will). 

AFAIK, the key is whether or not the unfulfilled term(s) are material enough to negatively impact the entire deal, in which case you could walk away and have your deposit returned to you, without consequence. Ultimately, you need your lawyer and broker to fight this battle :/


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If this goes to court, best case scenario is you get your money back. There is no reason you would ever be compensated to buy something better or similar. 

You'd be suing to get out of the deal because they didn't meet the requirements according to you. 

Only an American would think they are entitled to more than that...


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

abroad said:


> So if someone sells a property and it turns out that the hydro is disconected and there is no water, they don't have to compensate it??


Why aren't you talking to your lawyer about this stuff?

Nobody in here has a clue what you are talking about.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I suggest you amend your offer to accept the condition of the barn as is with a suitable lower price. If they reject that offer then you walk.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

All good comments above, renting a generator just to be able to test the water. I am surprosed the agents don't eat the cost to connect the hydro.

How bad do you want the property? Pay out of pocket or get a generator, test the water, and find out if you should waive the clause to buy as is, or if you should walk.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Does it specifically state in the agreement the seller signed that they would hook up and pay for the hydro?



abroad said:


> Yes, the pumps are just for the barn.
> they did rent the barn out, when they got the barn back they did not toke the hydro back in their name.
> after a warning the hydro is disconected on the road.
> 
> I don't think that the cost for reconecting the hydro should be payd by the buyer.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

kcowan said:


> I suggest you amend your offer to accept the condition of the barn as is with a suitable lower price. If they reject that offer then you walk.


+1. find out the cost and deduct it from the price.


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

abroad said:


> The barn used to be conected to the hydro, they just forgot to take it in their name after the renter left.
> Should they not have mentioned that there wasn't hydro? Isn't this a 'hidden defect'.


Sounds like careless negligent on the owners since they never used the barn just rented it out. My gut says there's nothing wrong with it just build up over time of being neglected.

Are you planning to use the barn at all? Even if not you'd still don't want to take chances buying a house and finding out later problems with the Hydro. Unfortunately sounds like you didn't put the barn and hydro hookup in the clause can come back to bite you. Assuming is innocent but a good real estate agent would have made sure it was in the contract. 

Since the condition when you saw the house is the same as when it closes it's a tough decision. From the owner's perspective if there is no clause to say they must hooked up hydro before closing than I'm sorry to say they might win a case on this matter. But I'm not a lawyer so best to ask your lawyer what are your chances of winning should owner sue you for not closing.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

abroad said:


> We did that but they don't agree.


Then you don't have a deal but sounds like you want the property so you have decide do you want to assume the extra cost and risk or go back and find an alternative property.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

abroad said:


> So if someone sells a property and it turns out that the hydro is disconected and there is no water, they don't have to compensate it??


Not if they don't say it works in writing. 

I still hold to my original point, in a deal worth thousands of dollars, probably hundreds of thousands, if they are willing to let the deal die over a couple of hundred dollars in hookup fees, then they know there are bigger problems. 

My first guess would be that the lines aren't up to code and they can't get hydro hooked up the way it currently is. My second is that the water is bad or the pump is pooched. Any of these are way more expensive to fix. 

They'd rather wait for someone who doesn't care...or stupider.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I completed lots of deals where 2 sides were dug in. 1st off get the realtors and owner at an informal table without lawyers. Explain your side...let owners explain theirs...calculate costs...split it down the middle...make useless realtors to agree to pay 25% of their commission to solving problem...done. Grats you own the property.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

marina628 said:


> Then you don't have a deal but sounds like you want the property so you have decide do you want to assume the extra cost and risk or go back and find an alternative property.


+1

It appears that the OP has submitted a counter-offer (ie, price reduction) which was declined. He currently has a one-sided wishful thinking of purchase at a reduced price.

The seller has already signed "Release of Purchase Agreement" and walked away. The lawyers from both the seller and buyer have advised the deal is dead. With all respect, what more does the OP want? More wishful thinking? I understand the RE brokers still want to make their 5% or whatever the rate is, commission. So they will never give up making up hopes for a deal. But the OP still needs a real place to buy... and should move on to another property candidate IMO.


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## abroad (Feb 26, 2013)

:encouragement:


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

This is unnecessarily being dragged out, IMHO. 

Based upon the info you have provided, you have two options:

1. Walk away from the deal. The vendors have signed a release, which suggests that they are prepared to walk away. That does NOT mean they are entitled to walk away. They may be hoping that you agree to sign it and then they can simply sell to someone else without consequence. You may also want to ask yourself if you really want to buy something from someone who is angry with you. They could damage the home before leaving, for example, putting you in the same boat as option #2 below...

2. Close 'as is', and sue the vendors in small claims court. The vendors have refused all efforts to resolve (by connecting power or reducing the sale price). Again, this does NOT mean that they are not responsible for the connection...but there is nothing you or anyone else can do to FORCE them to connect power or reduce the price. You signed a contract, and this one dispute is HIGHLY unlikely to be a 'material defect' that would permit either side to void the contract on their own...both sides would need to agree via a release. Your lawyer should make the vendors' lawyer aware that evidence exists from the hydro company that the power was turned off after the date of your showing, and that you will sue for the costs to reconnect and for any other related costs. If they refuse to close, then you may have to sue to force them to uphold their end of the contract and close the deal.

You lawyer is not there to tell you what to do...they can only offer legal advice as to your options. 

If you are unhappy with your lawyer, consider legal advice from another one (which is typically free for 30 min).


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

abroad said:


> Hello again, thanks for all the replies,
> 
> In the replies I said that the power was disconnected and the property needed a ESA inspection, I called the hydro company again.
> And found out that the hydro was disconnected a week after we did an offer on the property, so probably an ESA is not needed just a simpel call to hydro would be enough. Before closing our lawyer had send a letter to their lawyer requesting to put the power back on, so we could do an inspection. *In the contract it says that the seller is required to co-operate to an inspection.*
> ...


The devils are in the details. What exactly were the words in your purchase agreement? Usually, the sales agreement would say "the offer is contingent upon a satisfactory inspection within 7 days or the offer is null and void" or something like that. If it already passes the deadline, then your conditional offer has expired.

You really need to speak to your lawyer to find out where you are at. Like you stated earlier, you have already been advised by the lawyer that the deal is dead, right?

Also, a real estate transaction is about negotiation. It is very obvious like you REALLY REALLY want this property. You seem to refuse to walk away despite all the troubles. The seller can sense that too... in this negotiation, you are currently NOT at a position of power. They are in charge now. In fact they are prepared to walk away, as can be seen from their signed release. So you are pretty much stuck at "take it as is or leave it". Any experienced seller, sensing a strong desire for buyer interest, will not move in negotiation. So you can forget about trying to get a price reduction.

Let's put it this way, even if you find all kinds of defects from the property... they can still say "so what? do you want to take it or leave it". So stop dreaming about having a reduced price / bargain in this transaction anymore, IMO. You have let this dragged on too long. It has been over 1 month since you made the offer, right? And you are still stuck. So it's time to move on unless you want to buy it as is.


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