# RRSP, RRIF, LRSP, LIF and LRIF



## Ben1491 (Jan 13, 2012)

Turn 71 this year. Need to sort out my RRSP accounts and transfer them to RRIF. I have 2 accounts, one is regular RRSP, and other is lock-in (LRSP ?) which was registrated under province of Ontario, about 20% of my total pension. I know I can transfer up to 50% from LRSP to RRSP before April 30 this year. Here is some questions I would be appreciated if some of you can help.
1. Is there any advantage to when I transfer my RRSP to RRIF ? Say, beginning of the year or at the end of the year.
2. What is the advantage of transfer 50% of my LRSP to RRSP, other than there is no restriction of maximum withdrawal with the RRSP ?
3. If I want to transfer 50% of my LRSP to RRSP, do I need to transfer them before I convert these plans to LIF (LRIF ?) and RRIF ?
4. I am confused with these two names. LIF (life income fund) and LRIF (lock-in retirement income fund), what is the difference ?
Thanks.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Ben1491 said:


> 1. Is there any advantage to when I transfer my RRSP to RRIF ? Say, beginning of the year or at the end of the year.
> 2. What is the advantage of transfer 50% of my LRSP to RRSP, other than there is no restriction of maximum withdrawal with the RRSP ?
> 3. If I want to transfer 50% of my LRSP to RRSP, do I need to transfer them before I convert these plans to LIF (LRIF ?) and RRIF ?
> 4. I am confused with these two names. LIF (life income fund) and LRIF (lock-in retirement income fund), what is the difference ?
> Thanks.


1) No, since you are not required to take taxable income until the following year, so when they are set up is not important.
2) The only advantage is the reduced restrictions on access.
3) Not totally sure. Now, upon transfer your money left in the LIF will now be in an RLIF. The R standing for restricted which only means that it has already had it's 50% taken out and is no longer eligable for it. So that kind of tells me that the answer is No and that perhaps you can unlock some at any time. You will need to verify this to be sure.
4) I believe different jurisdictions (Fed and provinces) have different rules and different names. Not totally sure either.


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## Ben1491 (Jan 13, 2012)

Thank you Eagle.
You are right about #4. Mine is under government of Ontario. Found this on line. As for question #3, I'll find out for sure when I see somebody from my self-direct account.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Here is some info:

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/how-to-unlock-an-ontario-locked-in-retirement-account-lira-lrif/


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## Ben1491 (Jan 13, 2012)

Thank you Pillars. This article really helps. 
One question remains. I need to withdraw a minimum 4% each from the RRIF and LIF next year. I assume they are separate plans. I cannot, let say withdraw maximum (7.38% ?) from my LIF and less than 4% minimum from my RRIF to make the total minimum 4% withdrawal from my total pension plans ?
My purpose is to deplete my LIF as fast as possible. Does it make sense ?


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## Miser (Apr 24, 2011)

I assume you have a TFSA maxed out??
If not take the dough and run!


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## caricole (Mar 12, 2012)

Ben1491 said:


> Turn 71 this year
> 
> 4. I am confused with these two names. LIF (life income fund) and LRIF (lock-in retirement income fund), what is the difference ?
> Thanks.


I try to clarify a few points

You can have 3 plans
a) RSP Self directed «Retirement Savins Plan»

You have to convert at the age of 71, you have to respect minimum withdrawals...but you can withdraw more if you want

b) RRSP Self directed «Restricted Retirement Savingas Plan».. Federal Jurisdiction

You have to convert at the age of 71, the payouts are a predetermend % with payouts up till the age of 95 (I think)
You can «UNLOCK» 50% of the value...transfer this to N° 1 if you wish...and the balance remains locked for the % payout

c) RRSP Self directed «Restricted Retirement Savings Plan».. Provincial Jurisdiction

I am frow Québec, the rules could be differend for Ontario?...Here you can request Minimum or Maximum withdrawals plus you can obtain a TEMPORARY PAYEMENT...starting at the age of 55

I am loocking at one for a friend..next year...value 60K

Every year, 6K withdrawal and transfer taxfree to N°1 + 15K taxable withdrawal...but there is room for RSP contribution...so withdraw 15K and contribute 15K

After 3 years the plan wil be completely UNLOCKED and the money will be in N° 1
===================================================
Unlocking 50% for the Federal jurisdiction only but not for the Provincial jurisdiction, it is differend

I suggest to inquire for Ontario


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## Brian Weatherdon CFP (Jan 18, 2011)

Hi Ben, I understand you have an RRSP and a LIRA (locked in retirement account) here in Ontario. Some reflections for you:

1. doesn't matter much when in the year you change from RRSP to RRIF so long as it's complete by year-end, so let's say Dec 15th or so. If you need a casual withdrawal sooner you can do that. If you needed monthly income sooner, easiest via RRIF.

2. no need to transfer LIRA to RRSP; my understanding & practice in terms of current legislation is to mature the LIRA into a LIF, and then you have up to 60 days to split the 50% out of the LIF into RRIF. You are right; the rationale is to avoid "maximum" withdrawal on the portion you can move from the LIF.

3. As mentioned, LIRA --> LIF, and then 60 days max to move the portion of LIF --> RRIF.

4. Context above may have answered you. LIRA is the locked-in account prior to drawing income; LIF is once it is set up to pay you withdrawals.

You're right, these things can be very confusing for most people. You definitely want clarity on such matters that affect your income, and even your tax-planning, for the rest of your life. That's why it can be most valuable to have a certified financial advisor able to guide you.

All the best!
BW


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