# Should i move to Windows 10?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Got Windows XP on my (old) desktop; got Windows 7(starter) on my (old) lap-top.
Should I move up to Windows 10 on both? either?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Win 10 may not work on the older machines. I wouldn't touch that if the machines are more than 3-4 years old. Windows 10 OS is supposed to do a test on the hardware to see if it work before it installs but I've read all sorts of stories about how the upgrade goes badly because of some incompatibility somewhere. Don't even try it if you don't have at least 4GB of RAM. Windows says it will operate on as low as 1 GB (32 bit) or 2 GB (64 bit) but good luck with that.

Keep the old machines until they creak and then upgrade with new hardware That is what I did.... left my old 8 yr old Vista machine alone and bought a new 64 Bit laptop designed for Win10. The old fellow is delegated to the lower floor and is used only for some software that I still like and for guests et al that come to stay.

Added: I've advised my ex to stay with her Win7 desktop until she is ready for a full overhaul. I believe her machine is about 4 yrs old now and should be good for another 2-4 yrs, HDD notwithstanding.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

A computer that can run Windows 7 will be able to run Windows 10; the system requirements are the same. Not true for XP machines, though, so your XP computer may not have enough horsepower to run Windows 10.

Windows XP hasn't been supported with security updates for a few years now, so your desktop machine could be at risk for hacking unless you're using a third-party security app.

Windows 7 will continue to be supported by Microsoft with security updates until 2020. I'd say stick with Windows 7 on that machine if you're used to using it. You'll get no significant benefits by upgrading to Windows 10; it's better in some respects but if Windows 7 is working fine for you why bother upgrading? Your laptop will probably need to be replaced by 2020 if not sooner and at that point you can get a newer machine with Windows 10 preinstalled.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I agree with the others that you should leave the XP machine alone. At some point you'll probably want to upgrade the hardware, you can change OS at that point. 

Is your Windows 7 machine asking you to upgrade to Windows 10? If so, I have heard that it is force-upgrading some people's machines even if they don't tell it to do so. You may want to install "never 10" which will prevent your computer from doing this.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Our Windows 7 desktop will remain as such until it dies. 

Our five year old laptop is another issue. Completely obsolete since I inherited by spouse's 10" hand-me-down iPad.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I've been pretty happy with 10. I installed it on my latest machine and the old one I have that ran 7.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My dad's computer on Windows 7 has been extremely aggressive about installing the Windows 10 update without permission. It's even restarted his computer and started the installer (NOT confirmed by a dialog box). We've had to then decline the license agreement, and sit for another half hour while it rolls back to Windows 7. It has done this _twice_.

I think Microsoft is being extremely sleazy with this upgrade rollout. Nothing that major should ever install without explicit permission -- this is horrible. Can't trust Microsoft at all.

Therefore, I just recently upgraded my mom's computer to Linux Ubuntu (more specifically Xubuntu). She loves it, and it does everything she needs. She is VERY non-expert but the Linux desktop has advanced to the point where it really does everything a typical user needs, and is easy to use. Some nice easy distributions for this are Ubuntu, Xubuntu, and Mint. Just install google-chrome-stable under it and you're set... everything you need.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Use the "never 10" linked above. I'm told it works beautifully and rids one of the annoyance forever. Seriously.......


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Oh WOW great pointer... and that's from Gibson Research. That guy has been doing fantastic work for nearly 20 years, I used to collaborate with him. Great pointer thanks a lot!

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I've successfully used *METHOD 3: Disable "Get Windows 10" Using Registry Editor* from this site on a Win7 machine with no problems. Just be very careful you have followed the correct path and instructions (the registry contains folders within folders, some very similar in name):
http://www.askvg.com/how-to-remove-get-windows-10-app-and-its-icon-from-taskbar/


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

I gave in over the winter, not bad, but I am use to many different products and styles of tablets, phones, and machine interface software, so its all just a blur. Common complaint is having it installed on computer without touch screen technology.

One annoyance as time goes on I find is the lack of straight line search functions. They have gotten better for keywords, but sorting by date or in depth details seems to be more difficult to access. On that note, I hate how Outlook has taken over and the constant push for OneDrive or cloud storage, I'm a file in hand kind of guy.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i'm working on a bizarre problem that appears to be daily forced downloads of Win 10 ffrom Microsoft that are downloaded as complete new files every day, ie outside the regular windows 7 update system.

my attention was alerted when the IP provider billed me for extra internet usage. Since i have an ample usage package - 120 GB per month with usage running around 30 GB - i knew something was wrong. I never download movies or games or netflix or software. 

i looked to see when the over-usage started. It commenced 6 april/16 with a 10 gig download that i most definitely did not initiate. Every day since, daily downloads of 4-6 GB. This is about the size of the Win 10 update to convert Win 7.

i'm not qualified to open or mess around with hidden files on the C drive. Someone is going to help me with this today. I rather suspect that we'll find 40 or more of these install-windows-10 patches on my hard drive.

if covert attempts by microsoft are triggering extra usage fees for clients, i hardly know what to think. The practice seems shocking. From googling, i see that others are experiencing these same Win 10 stealth attacks. Some folks are talking about suing Microsoft. 

the issue is not whether Win 10 is a better OS or a worse OS. The issue is that a prestige company would resort to these illegal tactics.

they say that one method of stopping Win 10 is to uncheck (stop) automatic updates. But this won't cure the daily stealth downloads, though, since apparently they are coming in as zipped files, not regular updates.

here's an article i found describing this dirty practice.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-for-massive-windows-10-upgrade-strategy.html


.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Win 10 may not work on the older machines. I wouldn't touch that if the machines are more than 3-4 years old. Windows 10 OS is supposed to do a test on the hardware to see if it work before it installs but I've read all sorts of stories about how the upgrade goes badly because of some incompatibility somewhere. Don't even try it if you don't have at least 4GB of RAM. Windows says it will operate on as low as 1 GB (32 bit) or 2 GB (64 bit) but good luck with that.
> 
> Keep the old machines until they creak and then upgrade with new hardware That is what I did.... left my old 8 yr old Vista machine alone and bought a new 64 Bit laptop designed for Win10. The old fellow is delegated to the lower floor and is used only for some software that I still like and for guests et al that come to stay.
> 
> Added: I've advised my ex to stay with her Win7 desktop until she is ready for a full overhaul. I believe her machine is about 4 yrs old now and should be good for another 2-4 yrs, HDD notwithstanding.


Basically, as you say, if you are going to upgrade to Win 10, you need a more modern PC. 64 bit is pretty much a requirement. Not sure if you can even get Win10 to upgrade on an older 32bit machine. I have an old HP Pavillion 32 bit which is collecting dust in closet..my quickie backup. I had to get a 32 bit version of Win7 to get it up and running. 
but my current PC is 64 bit.
The difference is the speed of operation, but there are other considerations as well, like accessing RAM more efficiently.
The MS extraction below is for Win7 which I am running, but it would apply to Win10 as well.



> To install a 64-bit version of Windows 7 on a computer running a 32-bit version of Windows, you'll need to start, or boot, your computer using a 64-bit Windows 7 installation disc or files.
> 
> If you start your computer using a 64-bit Windows 7 installation disc or files, *but your computer isn't capable of running a 64-bit version of Windows, you'll see a Windows Boot Manager error.* You'll need to use a 32-bit Windows 7 installation disc or files instead.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> i'm working on a bizarre problem that appears to be *daily forced downloads of Win 10 from Microsoft that are downloaded as complete new files every day, ie outside the regular windows 7 update system.
> *
> my attention was alerted when the IP provider billed me for extra internet usage. Since i have an ample usage package - 120 GB per month with usage running around 30 GB - i knew something was wrong. I never download movies or games or netflix or software.


More than 120Gb? That is a LOT of downloading! 



> i looked to see when the over-usage started. It commenced 6 april/16 with a 10 gig download that i most definitely did not initiate. Every day since, daily downloads of 4-6 GB. This is about the size of the Win 10 update to convert Win 7.


The size of these downloads are too much even for MS. Are you running on a secure internet connection or Wi-FI? If you are running your computer on WiFi, better get a security key on your Wi-Fi account as anybody can access an unsecured WiFi account and download HUGE files.
This happened to a friend of mine that was using a Wi-Fi account with Rogers or Bell and didn't realize that you need extra security on WiFi links to keep from getting ripped off by others and you paying for the over usage.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-for-massive-windows-10-upgrade-strategy.html

Very underhanded attempt by MS to control your computer and you.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/so...ed-tactics-to-push-windows-10-upgrade-1310752


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carverman said:


> More than 120Gb? That is a LOT of downloading!
> 
> The size of these downloads are too much even for MS.


no, it's not too much for Win 10 stealth attacks from Microsoft. It's 4-6 GB almost every day. Ever since 6 april/16. There's the odd rare day here or there when the enemy doesn't attack & on those days usage drops back down to normal, ie less than 1 GB. But the next day, usage history shows that the 5 GB attacks have resumed.

carver you're good at math. The Win 10 upgrade patch is about 5 GB. Even a poor pie can multiply. 5 x 29 = 145 GB.

it's all download. The upload figs are still low, as in normal.

first thing i did was to completely disable WiFi. It's a dual modem/router, still have the cables. But shutting off WiFi makes no difference. I'm running on old copper exteror landline plus ethernet cable, but daily 5 GB downloading still goes on exactly as before.




> Are you running on a secure internet connection or Wi-FI? If you are running your computer on WiFi, better get a security key on your Wi-Fi account as anybody can access an unsecured WiFi account and download HUGE files.


it's not WiFi, please see above.

i ran a peck of anti-spywares. CC cleaner, malware bytes, super-anti-spyware. CC cleaner found a few fragmented files but the stronger spyware removers found nothing. No malwares at all.




> http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-for-massive-windows-10-upgrade-strategy.html
> 
> Very underhanded attempt by MS to control your computer and you.
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/us/news/so...ed-tactics-to-push-windows-10-upgrade-1310752


it's worse than underhanded. I posted a link to an article above that explains how MS is escalating the attacks in stages. It looks like my machine has been targeted for Win 10 via stealth rootkits. What's being downloaded are not regular Win 7 updates. The article linked above says there are folks out there who are experiencing the same, some among the comments are talking about suing microsoft. 

i'm proceeding like i usually try to do with a problem. The artichoke principle. Pick off one leaf at a time. Inspect, test, if no good, discard the leaf & pick off another. Repeat.

right now the focus is on microsoft, it's presently my hypothesis that the daily downloads are Win 10 stealth upgrades. The entire upgrade gets delivered every day. Around 5 GB. Truly repulsive. These must be how some folks are waking up to discover Win 10 on their machines without any authorization.

hopefully by tomorrow i'll know more about how to stop the downloads.

i'm posting this sorry tale in case others are experiencing the same. Evidently MS has escalated the bombardment of certain machines in stages, this is now the final stage, intended to force Win 10 on every holdout before 29 july/16.

bonjour, Aleppo. Salut, Mosul. Good day, Deir el Zour.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Per another Windows 10 thread, run "Never 10" to prevent the downloads and to rid your computer of downloaded files.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Per another Windows 10 thread, run "Never 10" to prevent the downloads and to rid your computer of downloaded files.


It was upthread in this thread (post #4):


Spudd said:


> I agree with the others that you should leave the XP machine alone. At some point you'll probably want to upgrade the hardware, you can change OS at that point.
> Is your Windows 7 machine asking you to upgrade to Windows 10? If so, I have heard that it is force-upgrading some people's machines even if they don't tell it to do so. You may want to install "*never 10*" which will prevent your computer from doing this.


I had also suggested (in post #10):


OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I've successfully used *METHOD 3: Disable "Get Windows 10" Using Registry Editor* from this site on a Win7 machine with no problems. Just be very careful you have followed the correct path and instructions (the registry contains folders within folders, some very similar in name):
> http://www.askvg.com/how-to-remove-get-windows-10-app-and-its-icon-from-taskbar/


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> Per another Windows 10 thread, run "Never 10" to prevent the downloads and to rid your computer of downloaded files.



i don't know anything about the publisher of Never 10 other than what he tells us - slightly boastfully - about himself.

in addition, there are other Block Win 10 softwares being rec'd in this thread.

as i mentioned, i'll be getting some expert help soon. I'll listen carefully to what the expert says - after all, he's the only one who will actually see the "C" files - then i'll put all the ideas together, weigh everything up & take action.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> no, it's not too much for Win 10 stealth attacks from Microsoft. It's 4-6 GB almost every day. Ever since 6 april/16. There's the odd rare day here or there when the enemy doesn't attack & on those days usage drops back down to normal, ie less than 1 GB. But the next day, usage history shows that the 5 GB attacks have resumed.
> 
> first thing i did was to completely disable WiFi. It's a dual modem/router, still have the cables. But shutting off WiFi makes no difference. I'm running on old copper exteror landline plus ethernet cable, but daily 5 GB downloading still goes on exactly as before.
> spyware. CC cleaner found a few fragmented files but the stronger spyware removers found nothing. No malwares at all.
> ...


This is bizarre Humble. i'm running Win 7 on my 64 bit and no signs of any hijacking of my computer at night.
I'm on a copper line with Teksavvy..150GB of data usage included in my monthly fee for 7 MB of download. 
My current data usage with ROKU (Netflix) streaming is 36.49 GB..No download attacks so far.

The only automatic updates on mine are MS security updates for WIN 7. 

If you go to CONTROL PANEL, and search for MS updates, do you see any large stealth files related to WiN 10?
The other way is to select "Computer" from your START menu and scan 'local disk C" and "Local disk E"
and look for the pgm files list. You have to click on + to make it - to see the files in details.
If MS is sneaking in files automatically, then you should be able to see any related MS Win10 upgrade files.
I use a free prgm called Irfanview./




> i'm posting this sorry tale in case others are experiencing the same. Evidently MS has escalated the *bombardment of certain machines *in stages, this is now the final stage, intended to force Win 10 on every holdout before 29 july/16.



Question is: Why did MS ( if this is the case) target your machine? 

I have no intention of migrating to WIN 10...I would like to see MS try this on me.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carverman said:


> I have no intention of migrating to WIN 10...I would like to see MS try this on me.




:biggrin:. i would like to see this as well, hopefully i would learn what to do.

assuming i survived with my machine, that is. I believe that if you carried on, the earthquake would run down the ottawa river fault line, which as it happens runs south through a deep gorge in a cliff close to my house, on its way to the US border.

achtung! would montreal survive?


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Stealth Attack*

I am not sophisticated enough to describe in detail as humble pie, but I noticed in the past week that my start button showed " Do Not Power Off" almost every time I turned off the computer. I did not intend to install Win 10 and ignored the downloads. Then WHAMO , this morning as I was at another website, my computer stopped and started installing Win 10. I did not know what to do so I watched and waited. Almost two hours later, my computer proudly announced that Win 10 had been installed. My blood pressure must have been very high, but I survived. I followed the windows to "..accept or decline.." and DECLINED empathically. Nearly one hour later, Win 10 was uninstalled.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

stantistic said:


> Then WHAMO , this morning as I was at another website, my computer stopped and started installing Win 10. I did not know what to do so I watched and waited. Almost two hours later, my computer proudly announced that Win 10 had been installed. My blood pressure must have been very high, but I survived. I followed the windows to "..accept or decline.." and DECLINED empathically. Nearly one hour later, Win 10 was uninstalled.


Your computer was hijacked by MS. More and more it seems to be a conspiracy with MS.
Well, at least they gave you an option to decline or accept.
Good thing it's not like RANSOMWARE where they install first and if you want to keep it, they charge you $99. If you decline they charge more.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's not a conspiracy. They are 'entitled' to do everything they are doing, as you agreed to it as part of the End User Licensing Agreement you agreed to when you installed the operating system.

Last I heard, MS was backing off their overly aggressive attempts to get people to install Windows 10, including the unsolicited installations.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I agree with andrewf above. People have this mistaken impression that they own their computers and the software that runs them, but while we might own the hardware we only own licenses to use the software and those license agreements contain a lot of fine print that (almost) nobody reads.

If you want to avoid forced advertising, heavy-handed marketing, and privacy concerns you can always switch to Linux, but it's a pretty lonely world there and you're likely to spend a lot more time just fussing with your software instead of getting things done.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I've successfully used *METHOD 3: Disable "Get Windows 10" Using Registry Editor* from this site on a Win7 machine with no problems. Just be very careful you have followed the correct path and instructions (the registry contains folders within folders, some very similar in name):
> 
> http://www.askvg.com/how-to-remove-get-windows-10-app-and-its-icon-from-taskbar/




the tekkie came, he saw & he conquered. The app he used to remove the Win 10 files was from onlyMO's askvg website above. Method 5, i believe.

then we decided to temporarily change Win 7 updates from auto to choose update, to see if this will make a difference. We decided to test this while monitoring download usage for a few days, then regroup.

ah, artichokes. One leaf at a time.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

brad said:


> People have this mistaken impression that they own their computers and the software that runs them, but while we might own the hardware we only own licenses to use the software and those license agreements contain a lot of fine print that (almost) nobody reads.



the first nations have got a lot of mileage & a lot of money out of claiming that they owned the land but they never did understand the white man's fine print. Can't we do the same?


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Interprtation - End user agreement*

Re: post #23, this thread :
I agree that I signed an agreement wherein MS would from time to time *download* suggested updates to a list from which I would choose, if any, and *I would install*. 
I did not agree to have MS* install *an update at a time of their choosing while my computer was in use for other tasks and* without my explicit permission*. 
At least, that is my interpretation. :upset:


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

I had a similar takeover. Only problem was my laptop was not accessible for almost a whole day due to install. Combine kids opening and closing lid, charger plugged in/out, I finally gave in, opened it up, plugged it in that night and let it go. Next day it did a couple updates and restarts but fine now. Agree, its wierd that my monthly internet usage bill has increased, thought it was just kids on youtube.

As for license agreements, this is similar to the mechanical industry where the computer/software that runs your equipment(and soon to be vehicle) has to be accessed by manufacturer, now we are seeing subscription fees which don't sound necessary until you have a problem which requires up to date version. Argument is manufacturer still has rights to the software after purchase which they likely will eventually go as far as shutting down if they feel you are not using the most up to date and scary word "safe" version. Imagine you buy a new $40k car which requires an annual fee for software updates - you refuse and drive away, now car has sensor error which requires you to have up to date version - so you pay them. Go one step further, a mandatory recall is issued for airbag or electronic steering control or engine run control - you are forced to pay, just like we must have valid insurance, annual license plate/sticker, one time safety and semi-annual e-test certifications.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

stantistic said:


> Re: post #23, this thread :
> ......
> At least, that is my interpretation. :upset:


Yep, another one who didn't read the fine print.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Following up on coptzr's post above, there have been hints or at least rumours that Microsoft will eventually start charging subscription fees for Windows, just as they are doing for MS Office now (it's still possible to buy standalone Office but they are pushing the subscription version heavily). This is likely what's behind their aggressive push to have people upgrade to Windows 10: at some point you'll have to start paying to keep it running or at least if you want to keep it up to date with the latest security enhancements and bug fixes.

If you want to switch to a different platform it might be time to start thinking about it. The problem is that the other main platforms (Apple, Google, and Linux) all have their own issues. I've long been tempted by Linux (especially the user-friendly versions such as Elementary and Mint) but I'd probably have to wait until retirement to be able to use it as my only computer.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> It's not a conspiracy. They are 'entitled' to do everything they are doing, as you agreed to it as part of the End User Licensing Agreement you agreed to when you installed the operating system.
> 
> Last I heard, MS was backing off their overly aggressive attempts to get people to install Windows 10, including the unsolicited installations.


End user Agreement..you have to sift through pages and pages of text and click on "accept" or "decline"..who's
got time to read all that legal mumbo-jumbo..unless you are a lawyer, of course.

Interesting though hearing about their heavy handed approach. I bought a used PC about 3 years ago, and it came with a licence that was not registered by me. The seller was a PC tech who moonlighted.

It kept nagging me every day (after 30 days) to buy a genuine licence for $199 from THEIR WEBSITE. 
MS would BLACK OUT my screen background pic and then give me a warning that I was using an unlicensed operating system that was illegal. 

This was happening for several days, and I got fed up with it.
All I saw was a black display,with the start button at least to get my apps running. I'm not sure what else they were shutting down on my computer, but that was enough. Certainly they would not be providing updates to Win7.

I gave them "the proverbial finger", then ordered my own Win7 Boot CD from a well known online computer store for $99.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> the first nations have got a lot of mileage & a lot of money out of claiming that they owned the land but they never did understand the white man's fine print. Can't we do the same?


I guess the MS approach to all this is..if you can operate a computer, you should be able to read and understand the MEANING of their fine print.
Hell, I have enough trouble some days to read and understand how to cook KD (kraft dinner).:biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

stantistic said:


> Re: post #23, this thread :
> I agree that I signed an agreement wherein MS would from time to time *download* suggested updates to a list from which I would choose, if any, and *I would install*.
> I did not agree to have MS* install *an update at a time of their choosing while my computer was in use for other tasks and* without my explicit permission.
> At least, that is my interpretation.* :upset:


Yes, this is the same way I feel. I don't mind them doing automatic updates to fix bugs in Win 7...hence "please don't turn off your computer while updates are being installed'.."Installing Update x of X"...however, I have always assumed they were improvements to the existing OS..to make it run more efficiently or fix an obvious bug. 

I never expected their underhanded methods to sneak in new OS by downloading it in bits and pieces and then activating it on you without your express permission.

This is plain wrong...end user agreement or not!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

brad said:


> This is likely what's behind their aggressive push to have people upgrade to Windows 10: at some point you'll have to start paying to keep it running or at least if you want to keep it up to date with the latest security enhancements and bug fixes.


Back in the 90, Bill Gates has a brief visit to a company in Seattle called The Exchange. They ran local ATM Networks and charged their clients for every transaction.

Bill was fascinated and asked to return for a full day to truly understand their business model. Since then I have seen many attempts by MS to implement a similar model. It is especially important in a segment where there is no further organic growth.

I strongly believe that Win10 is their final attempt to implement that model. It now has an advertising spin since that was developed by many web sites. I am sticking to Win7 until 2020. I will install a solid state disk when the current one fails. I use Crap Cleaner to keep the machine relatively clean.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

brad said:


> Following up on coptzr's post above, there have been hints or at least rumours that Microsoft will eventually start charging subscription fees for Windows, just as they are doing for MS Office now (it's still possible to buy standalone Office but they are pushing the subscription version heavily). This is likely what's behind their aggressive push to have people upgrade to Windows 10: at some point you'll have to start paying to keep it running or at least if you want to keep it up to date with the latest security enhancements and bug fixes.
> 
> If you want to switch to a different platform it might be time to start thinking about it. The problem is that the other main platforms (Apple, Google, and Linux) all have their own issues. I've long been tempted by Linux (especially the user-friendly versions such as Elementary and Mint) but I'd probably have to wait until retirement to be able to use it as my only computer.




brad's view on coming subscription fees for windows makes total sense to me. Imagine how MS revenues would climb. Right now they're only getting license fees from licensing to OEMs plus enterprise & store sales, but steady subscription revenues coming in from every retail end user could change the picture.

i guess consumers would have to adopt the same attitude that some express re telephone service. Sure, the service is expensive but a subscriber can get something back by owning shares & collecting dividends.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

good grief, what an ordeal to stop Win 10.

the steps taken yesterday didn't entirely work, this morning MS sent me another Win 10 upgrade to replace the one that was deleted yesterday.

sigh. I was lucky, though, got another teckk with even more experience. He said it's more than a question of removing the folder with the six GWX files that i could see in the register. He said there's a whole bunch of files associated with Win 10 downloads that also have to be removed.

it took 3 tries to uninstall this morning's newest Win 10 update, but eventually he appeared to succeed with everything.

he also told me, with a slight groan in his voice, that many older machines are *not* compatible with Win 10. My own machine is *not* compatible with Win 10, even though it's only 4 years old, he said. 

but all the Windows 10 popups say that my machine tests as compatible, i said. Another slight groan. Yes, he replied, Microsoft is unfortunately inviting everybody to download Win 10, but in reality many machines are not compatible & that is why all the upgrade problems are happening.

i don't know for sure that all his work will result in permanently blocking Win 10. My takeaway from articles - PCWorld & others - posted here is that, as fast as the teckkies can delete files & invent blocks, Microsoft is even faster at inventing how to sneak back into everybody's computer once again. We'll see.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> the steps taken yesterday didn't entirely work, this morning MS sent me another Win 10 upgrade to replace the one that was deleted yesterday.


How did you become so lucky to be engaged in tug-of-war with MS?




> it took 3 tries to uninstall this morning's newest Win 10 update, but eventually he appeared to succeed with everything.


3 tries..that is tenacious software they are downloading.



> he also told me, with a slight groan in his voice, that many older machines are *not* compatible with Win 10. My own machine is *not* compatible with Win 10, even though it's only 4 years old, he said.


That is *almost* a boat anchor in PC terms, but it is strange that they keep trying anyway. 

Here's what MS have to say about compatible hardware...


> An internet connection is required to perform the upgrade. Windows 10 is a large file -- about 3 GB -- and Internet access (ISP) fees might apply.


If this Win 10 upgrade is truly 3GB in size, why was your bandwidth (120GB?) exceeded? Something does not make sense here.



> but all the Windows 10 popups say that my machine tests as compatible, i said. Another slight groan. Yes, he replied, Microsoft is unfortunately inviting everybody to download Win 10, but in reality many machines are not compatible & that is why all the upgrade problems are happening.


according to them, most PC should be able to accept WiN10..but don't believe them!

Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster processor or SoC
RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) for 32-bit ....or 2 GB for 64-bit
Hard disk space: 16 GB for 32-bit OS .....20 GB for 64-bit OS
Graphics card: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver
Display: 800x600


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

Similar thread
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/46586-Windows-10-is-a-free-upgrade


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

stantistic said:


> Similar thread
> http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/46586-Windows-10-is-a-free-upgrade


Yes..but the devil is in the details as they say. Win10 upgrades is similar to loading a 6 shot revolver with one bullet, spinning
the magazine and pulling the trigger when it stops rotating. :biggrin:

You have 5 chances out of 6, that everything should go as it should and it will be stable.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

I have a windows 7 computer and also windows 8.1. I installed GWX Control Panel (recommended by the local computer club) from http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/. It has worked perfectly; no nagging, no stealth downloads.

I'm still deciding whether to upgrade the 8.1 laptop.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

.

oh my goodness. Now we are catching Microsoft red-handed. Now we are catching them with severe misrepresentation. We might even say MS is Lying its Brains out.

fortunately for a poor dumb crumb like myself, i was alerted by the PCWorld & ComputerWorld articles that were recently posted in these threads by a few super-knowledgeable cmf forum members. Thankx, all!

now about the lies & misrepresentations that are designed to force Windows 10 upon us poor unsuspecting Microsoft clients.

yesterday a super-skilled tekkie deleted all the registry files that held the now-infamous Win 10 update. I also switched to Notifiy & Choose Updates (previously i'd been a trusting automatic updates Windows client.)

as of yesterday, the insanely high download usage has dropped back down to normal. It does sound strange, i'll be the first to agree, but more & more it's looking like it was Microsoft that's been bombarding my machine every day since 6 april 2016 with 4-6 GB of download, while my normal historic download usage has always been around 1 GB. Meanwhile, i'm paying for the over-usage.

this morning, there was a new *important* Windows 7 update waiting for me. It had such a nice, innocent, seductive, attractive name. Most folks would believe that they should accept it. It's called:

*Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3035583)
Download size: 735 KB - 837 KB*

_You may need to restart your computer for this update to take effect.
Update type: Recommended
*Install this update to resolve issues in Windows*. For a complete listing of the issues that are included in this update, see the associated Microsoft Knowledge Base article for more information.
More information: microsoft.com/kb/3035583_


but i've learned a thing or two, in this ongoing battle against Microsoft. In the articles mentioned above, that were posted here by cmf members, i'd already read how MS has learned to sneak new Windows 10 updates past windows users by hiding these updates under other names. So i've grown a tad suspicious.

i clicked on the *more information* link. Sure enough, the true nature of this innocent-sounding *Update Windows 7* patch turns out to be a disguised Get Windows 10 update. Microsoft has simply given it an innocent new name, in the hope that the new disguise will enable GMX to sneak past clients who will accept the update without digging further.

digging shows that the new Windows 7 update is described like so:

*Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
This update installs the Get Windows 10 app that helps users understand their Windows 10 upgrade options and device readiness.

This update applies to Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1)*.


like i say, Bald. Disgusting. Misrepresentation. One could call it a Lie. This update is nothing but dirty old Get Windows 10 in disguise.

next, i'm going to check usage to see how many times during the day Microsoft will bombard my machine to accept this disguised GWX update.




.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Glad to hear you are making some progress even if it comes at the cost of your trusting nature and respect for all of humanity 
Good idea to turn those auto-updates off IMO. We have run our systems (Win10, Win8, Vista, XP) without updates for years and had no operating problems. I don't even trust or install their security patches. We have Norton, don't open attachments or site links we don't know and again have had no problems.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Glad to hear you are making some progress even if it comes at the cost of your trusting nature and respect for all of humanity
> Good idea to turn those auto-updates off IMO. We have run our systems (Win10, Win8, Vista, XP) without updates for years and had no operating problems. I don't even trust or install their security patches. We have Norton, don't open attachments or site links we don't know and again have had no problems.


I have to agree. Most of these updates from MS are intrusive and you really don't know what they are about, although if you really wanted to find out there is a way.
Control Panel Items; Windows Update; View update history. 

I have Norton Internet Security deluxe, and it tells me if there is any problem with a website that I go to, or if the website is not
secure when my CC is involved. 

I know that you can get all kinds of anti-virus for free..and free antivirus McAfee will even piggyback off another download, unless you uncheck the box to block it. But none of these freebees are as good as Norton, IMO.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

internet download usage has dropped back down to normal.

so it was Microsoft bombarding my machine the whole time.

right now i have the new, disguised, unwanted Win 10 update sitting among my proposed updates. The one with the fake name pretending it's something else.

i've googled & found out how to remove it from my machine. This involves working on the hidden registry files in the C drive, something i've never done. Er, something i'd rather not ever do.

however, i did follow the navigation all the way from my computer to the nastydisguisedunwanted update, where it's sitting in the registry file folder that contains MS updates that have never been accepted. I did observe that right click plus delete will send it to recycle bin. I did observe that the instructions said one should even delete nastydisguisedunwanted from the recycle bin.

i'll get some expert support before i go ahead & do any of this. It still freaks me out that Microsoft is so low, so cunning, so false as to invent these stealth updates.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Apparently some people are now disabling all updates from Microsoft, which leaves their computers more vulnerable to being hacked by malicious software:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3075...bling-critical-updates-at-their-own-risk.html


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^

who said anything about disabling all updates, though

anyone switching to optional updates has got to be able to find out - in depth - what each windows update really is. Has got to be able to learn whether it's truly a critical update or whether it's another faked-up NDU.

i'm surprised to see how logical the pathways are. Microsoft itself does eventually provide correct ID for each update, if one keeps clicking through the "more information" prompts in order to get past the NastyDisguisedUnwanted fake descriptions.

in fact i find it surprisingly easy & logical to navigate around this new realm. Unwanted not-yet-installed updates are kept in their own folder called "Sofware Distributions." They are not integrated into the registry files. They appear to be easy to delete, but i'll be getting expert help to confirm how to do this.

& i am receiving good support. Friends who build their own computers say - with genuine outrage - that they're switching to Linux if one more stealth Win 10 conversion occurs in their household. Their 15-year-old woke up earlier this week to find Windows 10 on his machine & the young lad swears he refused everything, he's sure he did nothing wrong ...

it's no longer an issue of whether Win 10 is better or worse. It's an issue of a leading & respected north American manufacturer suddenly choosing to behave like a whore.

i'm wondering whether this dirty story might be an invitation for google to enter the exit-windows vacuum with an OS of their own build.


.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> anyone switching to optional updates has got to be able to find out - in depth - what each windows update really is. Has got to be able to learn whether it's truly a critical update or whether it's another faked-up NDU.


There is always the option to manually update as opposed to the default automatic update. I'm not sure if that's what you mean, because optional updates (little tweaks) are a little different from the required updates (security related). When you do the manual update, you can check look more in detail before you install as it usually provides the links to the MS Knowledge Base.



humble_pie said:


> it's no longer an issue of whether Win 10 is better or worse. It's an issue of a leading & respected north American manufacturer suddenly choosing to behave like a whore.
> 
> i'm wondering whether this dirty story might be an invitation for google to enter the exit-windows vacuum with an OS of their own build.


Suddenly? It's obvious I'm not a fan of MS, but they've always had this attitude: Internet Explorer was probably the first obvious instance where this happened. They seem to be pushier now than before and what they are doing is worse than underhanded. Suffice it too say, I've never thought well of MS once I began to understand where it came from and the fact that all of their products are derivative and not really that great. The only reason why they would push Win 10 so hard would be to move to a subscription scheme so that MS can have guaranteed income from its OS division.

Google does have its Chrome OS, which is primarily based on Linux.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

*here's a Rad idea*

.

canada should move towards federal support of cheap & subsidized standard internet service for all citizens. As an essential national service. Like clean treated water, police, highways & the army.

the service should include at least one reliable operating system that doesn't ding canadians for more money on a subscription basis.

surely there's enough talent in waterloo to achieve this. Enough already with microsoft traipsing up to waterloo to hire away all the best grads.

canadians with fancier requirements would be free to lease or buy all kinds of other software, of course. Like the medicare system. Nobody dies here, certainly not those on welfare. Everybody receives basic medical care that's still better than what 3/4s of the planet's population receives.

still, rich patients who need stem cells or a new titanium hip on the fast track have to head towards mayo or the massachusetts general.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Why should the government run the internet? It's hardly more essential than food, and we trust farmers & retailers to handle its production and distribution.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Why should the government run the internet? It's hardly more essential than food, and we trust farmers & retailers to handle its production and distribution.


Surprised that this thread is still alive. :biggrin:

No, we don't want the gov't running *anything* technical in nature. . They can't even govern themselves according
to Parliamentary rules! so any enterprise that is complex in nature like the internet at least within Canada, sooner or later would get severely f#$%^ up with bad management decisions, not to mention every time the gov't changes political parties with fresh new faces that have no experience, policies don't always go as planned.

I've heard enough about the govt's internal software management programs horror stories from a close source that works there in their information technology dept. While not everyone is incompetent working there, there are some techies that actually know what they are doing, management OTOH, promoted through their management promotion/competition program.....don't necessarily have a clue.

We had some technology companies in the last few years that perhaps could have run the internet half decently (Nortel, JDS Uniphase, maybe even Mitel at one time), and were big enough in market cap, and had the technical resources to run the internet. 

They were developing software platforms for the internet at the time, but most of us now....know what happened to them.

Gov'ts don't go bankrupt, but they do a poor job of managing enterprise and should not be involved in doing so.


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*We have allies ... ?*

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/c...sh-windows-10-upgrade-022644882--finance.html


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Switch to a Mac, or instal Ubuntu. 

MS IS GARBAGE


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

johnjacobs said:


> I don't think that Windows 10 will work on your old PC. On your Laptop you can switch to Windows 10. It is good and fast. I have been using Windows 10 for more than three months.


I have both Win 7 and Win 10. Both installed on 256GB solid state drives (along with 4-8GB RAM, the best upgrade you can do) No performance improvement with Windows 10. New Edge browser and Win 10 Mail program are basically useless. Had to use Chrome or Firefox and Windows Live Mail for mail. Result is that I see no performance difference between the two OS's. And if you want to fill in some time playing Solitaire, you can no longer get the original free version, but you can BUY a different one from MS for Win 10 (A small thing, but a BIG mistake by MS)

I can use either, but in end use Win 7 99% of the time.


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## Durise (May 16, 2016)

For move up to Windows 10, your PC need some requirement which will help your PC run Windows 10 smoothly. Firstly, need minimum 1GB of ram with the latest processor, alteast dual core or above.


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## DealClaimer (Apr 1, 2016)

There were a lot who already considered using windows 10 and came from windows 7. I don't think, they have encountered some problems. However, one must be sure that their devices are compatible to windows 10 because I heard some who experience some issues with regards to it.


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## GizelleGizelle (Jun 10, 2016)

Moneywise, maybe you should until Windows 10 is still a free upgrade:rugby:


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## nate5 (Jun 16, 2016)

glad to upgrade to Windows 10


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## Simon Kilo (Jun 29, 2016)

Windows 10 isn't as bad as some people say, IMO once you get accustomed to the changes you will enjoy the experience.


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## mayallen (Aug 2, 2016)

I think that it is better if you upgrade to windows 10 because I have heard that microsoft will be stopping windows xp and windows 7 soon. I think that the best feature of windows 10 is cortana. You could get daily reminders and get to know about the weather.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

My processor is not fast enough for Windows 10 so no upgrade here.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mayallen said:


> have heard that microsoft will be stopping windows xp and windows 7 soon.



MS has stopped supportiing XP so anyone still running on XP is vulnerable to hacking at all times.

on the other hand, microsoft will definitely support windows 7 until 2020. It's true there's some urban myth running around that Win 7 support ceases this year. Not true. This must be coming from the OEM hardware sellers, looking to drive sales of new devices?

as cmf member brad posted far upthread - or in a related Win 10 thread - microsoft's likely goal is to start charging annual subscription fees for Win 10, as they already do for Office. This will be far more lucrative to MS than one-time leasing the OS to an OEM, who then resells to the individual consumer.

the way i see it, why run the risk of having to pay annual subscription fees for Win 10 right now, when Win 7 & Win 8 are available free for several more years? i know many folks say they're real pleased with Win 10 ... but will they be just as pleased when they're facing annual subscr fees of $100 or more each year?


.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

NorthKC said:


> My processor is not fast enough for Windows 10 so no upgrade here.


Even if the processor meets Win 10 specs, you need a faster one to run Win 10 at same speed as Win 7. I have run same applications on same computer under win 7 and 10 and surprised how much slower win 10 is. Computer is well withing spec range required. I use win 7 for everyday use.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

my processor is fast enough but apparently a problem is whether the OEM has created the drivers that are necessary for one's particular model


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> as cmf member brad posted far upthread - or in a related Win 10 thread - microsoft's likely goal is to start charging annual subscription fees for Win 10, as they already do for Office. This will be far more lucrative to MS than one-time leasing the OS to an OEM, who then resells to the individual consumer.
> 
> the way i see it, why run the risk of having to pay annual subscription fees for Win 10 right now, when Win 7 & Win 8 are available free for several more years? i know many folks say they're real pleased with Win 10 ... but will they be just as pleased when they're facing annual subscr fees of $100 or more each year?.


My hunch is that will not happen. I suspect they are more likely to have more subscription based apps based on Win10 than to charge for Win10. And there are ways around that. Libre for example for an Office Suite, Chrome/Firefox browsers, etc. 

I think the more important thing for all Windows users is for MS to eventually rid themselves of all 'earlier' OS so as not to have to program in retroactivity. That has got to be a nightmare for programmer that includes unnecessary complexity. Even Apple is botching upgrades due to the need for retroactivity.


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