# Toronto real estate, how does it compare globally



## naysmitj (Sep 16, 2014)

Bubble. What bubble?

Toronto's soaring home prices are in line with the reality of other world cities such as New York, Hong Kong and London, says Mark Renzoni, president of global commercial real estate giant CBRE.

"The market is fairly balanced. It's not being driven by foreign capital. It's being driven by Canadians, moving up, buying for the first time," he told the Star, following a speech at CBRE's annual market forecast event.

"There's great jobs, there's a sense of optimism, there's confidence in the job market and interest rates are low," said Renzoni, who suggested that concerns about foreign speculation in the Toronto housing market are overblown.

"In Toronto, I would say the majority of foreign interest on residential, especially high rise. . . It's families. They've got students in university here, they've got other relatives here, they've got one spouse here. They're buying additional residential real estate because they believe in the investment grade quality of the product," he said.

On the high-rise side, Toronto condos are very fairly priced when compared to other global cities, said Renzoni.

"Even in a Canadian context, condominium pricing in Toronto is significantly lower than in Vancouver, significantly lower — discount lower — than New York or London. It's still balanced and it still creates a great opportunity for people to create wealth and expand their horizons with investment. But also they're buying for themselves. You have to live somewhere," he said.

"The marketplace here is really driven on fundamentals, which is supply and demand," he said.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

There's nothing anyone can tell me to justify a 20+% price increase in 1 single year. That. Is. Not. Normal.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Perhaps you should read...

https://vantagepointtrading.com/wp-...pular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds.pdf

If there's too much, jump to page 63 and read about tulip mania. 

Finally, reread the article and substitute the word tulip with Toronto real estate, see if it sounds like the articles you're reading today.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, it is supply and demand but Renzoni seems to be overlooking cycles in supply and demand. Demand can and will deminish at some point. Renzoni's view seems to be one of those its different this time perspectives, just as Yellen is about to tick rates up. We don't know how Canadain markets will respond to that one hike, but evntually the cycle will end.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Comparing Toronto to cities like New York, London and Hong Kong is comparing apples and oranges.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

New York, HK and London are financial capitals, home to trillions of capital passing through there every year. Paris is the tourist capital of the world. Toronto is a just a pale wannabe. Total bubble built on the back of dumb millenials. The boomers are going to cash out and leave them holding the bag as the govt is forcibly changed and deal with the soaring debt in the province.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

naysmitj said:


> Bubble. What bubble?
> 
> Toronto's soaring home prices are in line with the reality of other world cities such as New York, Hong Kong and London, says Mark Renzoni, *president of global commercial real estate giant CBRE.*


What else is the president of a commercial real estate giant going to say? "Everything is overpriced! Don't buy real estate!"


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

Reminds me of the real estate agent that was interviewed on the news a few months ago...

"Yeah prices are really high and everything is being sold at way over asking. Bidding wars are getting intense, sellers definitely have the advantage in the market right now. But in my humble opinion, the best time to get in the market is now. People should definitely try to buy"

Thanks for the objective advice, Mr. Real Estate Agent!!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Last week I opened exactly same thread
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...uot-bubble-quot-in-Toronto-!?highlight=sydney

without reading Marc Ranzoni, I expressed exactly same opinion , and provided numbers comparing wages vs real estate prices.



> New York, HK and London are financial capitals, home to trillions of capital passing through there every year.


 Toronto is also one of the financial capitals. If you look at numbers I provided, real estate in Toronto is also significantly cheaper then in Tel Aviv , Sydney or Munich. (not only London, NY or Paris).
Prices soared because before Toronto RE was undervalued.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The financial capital of Canada...more money and people are in the state of New York than in Canada as a whole. If something happens to the tsx, no one outside of Canada probably notices.

One of the main reasons brokers tell you to invest outside of Canada is the market is relatively insignificant.

It may be important to us Canadians, we live here, but on the world stage we don't really matter. If our markets collapsed, it wouldn't drag anyone else down with it...unlike London, Paris, Munich, tel aviv, New York, etc.


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## rebel_ins (Apr 6, 2009)

gibor365 said:


> Last week I opened exactly same thread
> http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...uot-bubble-quot-in-Toronto-!?highlight=sydney
> 
> without reading Marc Ranzoni, I expressed exactly same opinion , and provided numbers comparing wages vs real estate prices.
> ...


As far as financial capitals go, if you go by market capitalization, Toronto is not nearly in the same league as New York, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, or Shangai.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_exchanges

Note also that most the largest Canadian companies (our banks, for example) do not matter on the global stage.

The London housing market may be cooling down.

I don't know about Munich or Tel-Aviv, but there is reason to look at Sydney as a bubble as well.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> If our markets collapsed, it wouldn't drag anyone else down with it...unlike London, Paris, Munich, tel aviv, New York, etc.


 Really?! When Tel Aviv markets collapsed in 90's nobody even noticed it except Israelis.... Munich doesn't have market at all.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

rebel_ins said:


> As far as financial capitals go, if you go by market capitalization, Toronto is not nearly in the same league as New York, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, or Shangai.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_exchanges
> 
> ...


as per http://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-stock-exchanges-by-size/

TMX is less than LSE, but very close to Germany, higher than Swiss, Italy or Spain and 7 times bigger than Tel Aviv Bursa.
Also TMX is part of $1 Trillion club (16 exchanges with market cap > 1T) and not on the last place....


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Here is the deal with Tel Aviv. Its ancestral home to jews all over the world and they are actively trying to encourage them to immigrate home from all over. That could literally be millions more people trying to get onto a very small piece of land.

Australian cities are expensive because 90% of that continent is uninhabitable. You can survive in winnipeg easier than alice springs.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Here is the deal with Tel Aviv. Its ancestral home to jews all over the world and they are actively trying to encourage them to immigrate home from all over. That could literally be millions more people trying to get onto a very small piece of land.


 On one hand it's true, on the other hand, in last 20 years immigration from Israel to Canada is much much higher than in other direction....approximately 1 mil Israelis immigrated to NA,Australia and Europe


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