# Shopping where you invest



## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Do any of you focus on where you purchase your goods from based on where your investments are? For instance, if you own shares in Husky, do you try to purchase your gas from Husky instead of Esso or Petro-Canada? If you own shares in Tim Horton's, do you try to drink Tim Horton's coffee instead of Starbucks?

Looking at this the other way, if you buy products from the competition of your investment, should you remain invested in that stock? For instance, if you find you get better service at Petro-Canada than Husky, why aren't you investing in Suncor instead of Husky?

You can really compound this if you consider a single purchase affecting multiple investments. For instance, buying a Coke from a McDonalds within a Walmart directly benefits 3 publicly traded companies.

I realize there is much more to investing than where you shop personally, but it is something to consider from a qualitative standpoint.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm more of a broad-based index kind of guy, so I try to spend as much as possible everywhere I can. 

Seriously - I would never base purchases on equity ownership. Makes no sense to me.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> I'm more of a broad-based index kind of guy, so I try to spend as much as possible everywhere I can.


Haha



> Seriously - I would never base purchases on equity ownership. Makes no sense to me.


I own shares in Husky; I don't own shares in Imperial Oil or Suncor. If I need gas, and there are 3 gas stations on the same street all selling gas at the same price, one a Husky, one a Petro-Canada and one an Esso, why wouldn't I buy gas from Husky?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I don't think Walmart was publicly traded.

I don't shop at Walmart anymore. Selling assault weapons next and baby clothes in the same store is bad mojo.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Mostly I buy stocks that produce goods I consume. For example I use Gillette and Tide , so i bought PG, 
Almost everywhere I go to public washroom, I use KMB produced staff, so I bought KMB stock. I smoke Marlboro , so I bought PM/MO.
On the other hand, I hold PEP and when I'm in supermarket, I'd buy Pepsi and not Cola (I really don't care, for me both taste the same).
I hold Husky and probably I'd use it if it was in convinient location, but I won't drive additional couple of km to fill up there


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Conceptually speaking, my product buying decisions are usually independent from investing decisions.

To take a contrarian approach, as a consumer you should look for discounted products with good quality.
Which usually means the manufacturer and/or retailer don't have much markup on the product.
Therefore, you shouldn't buy those stocks.

On the other hand, you should buy stocks that have high profit margins.
As a consumer, you probably won't buy those products, unless you see real value in them.

In your example, I own Husky stock (one of my top 5 positions, actually).
Yet, I do not fill gasoline from Husky gas stations.
Instead I use either Shell or Esso because I have Air Miles and Aeroplan miles with them.
If you have Petro Points, you may buy gas from them.
Yet, as you probably know, what a disaster Petro Canada stock used to be.

Retail gas distribution is usually a very small % of overall revenue and profit for most of these large, integrated oil giants, therefore, my decision to not buy gas does not really affect the profitability of my stock.

As for Coke and McDonalds, I seldom consume either product for a variety of reasons (primarily health).
Yet, those have been very lucrative stocks to own, even during the last 3 years.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

none said:


> I don't shop at Walmart anymore. Selling assault weapons next and baby clothes in the same store is bad mojo.


It is perfectly legal to do so in the US (in most states).
And it is not just Wal*Mart that does this, many other stores sell guns and bullets.

Do you have a similar aversion to stores selling alcohol and smokes next to baby clothes?
Smoking kills more people than guns do.
So does alcohol - not to mention huge health care burdens for society.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

gibor said:


> Mostly I buy stocks that produce goods I consume. For example I use Gillette and Tide , so i bought PG,
> Almost everywhere I go to public washroom, I use KMB produced staff, so I bought KMB stock. I smoke Marlboro , so I bought PM/MO.
> On the other hand, I hold PEP and when I'm in supermarket, I'd buy Pepsi and not Cola (I really don't care, for me both taste the same).
> I hold Husky and probably I'd use it if it was in convinient location, but I won't drive additional couple of km to fill up there


gibor, you are using a workable investment strategy ... more than a few books have been written about investing based on the products ands services you use ... a keen eye for how companies are selling and promoting their products as well the opinions of the consumers about those companies can be the fundamental reason for buying a company ... i believe you could say that this is the basis of warren buffets investment strategy ... he buys companies whose products he knows, uses and likes


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Ethan said:


> I own shares in Husky; I don't own shares in Imperial Oil or Suncor. If I need gas, and there are 3 gas stations on the same street all selling gas at the same price, one a Husky, one a Petro-Canada and one an Esso, why wouldn't I buy gas from Husky?


I guess if all other factors are equal, then I would choose the station where I owned shares.

However, our individual purchases makes so little difference that I would think just about any other variable would outweigh it.

For example if I could turn right into an Esso, but I had to make a left to get to Husky - I would choose Esso for the convenience since my gas purchase won't affect my investment anyway.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

fatcat said:


> gibor, you are using a workable investment strategy ... more than a few books have been written about investing based on the products ands services you use


I never read about it in the books. it's just a common sense  I if buy and like those products, probably millions of people around the globe buying them ...
Actually my favorite cereal made by GIS (general mills), wanted to buy it, but yield was too small

Too bad I cannot buy LCBO stock


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Sure it's legal but it's still gross. No thanks.



HaroldCrump said:


> It is perfectly legal to do so in the US (in most states).
> And it is not just Wal*Mart that does this, many other stores sell guns and bullets.
> 
> Do you have a similar aversion to stores selling alcohol and smokes next to baby clothes?
> ...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

none said:


> Sure it's legal but it's still gross. No thanks.


some of you Canadians are so wierd


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

If you would not shop at a company you're invested in, maybe you should reconsider your investment.

However, just because I own some shares in Boston Pizza, doesn't mean I won't eat somewhere else. I do like Boston Pizza, though. That's just silly. I'd get like a millionth of a penny return or something. Individual investors are peanuts in the bigger scheme of things.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

gibor said:


> I never read about it in the books. it's just a common sense  I if buy and like those products, probably millions of people around the globe buying them ...
> Actually my favorite cereal made by GIS (general mills), wanted to buy it, but yield was too small
> 
> Too bad I cannot buy LCBO stock




You do have to be careful with it though.

Maybe you rented films from Blockbuster, Purchased Music from HMV and buy your computers from Best Buy.

Granted BBY has had a good start to the year but otherwise it doesn't look a great investment. 
So I guess it can work but it still doesn't prevent you from doing some research into the stock. 

Having said that I did buy shares in SRV.UN because I like The Loose Moose and Jack Astors.


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## kaleb0 (Apr 26, 2011)

I can't say this has influenced my choice of most of the stocks I hold, but it has definitely influenced at least one of the REITs I'm invested in. I happen to shop at Place Alexis Nihon quite frequently, and given that it's always packed with a great variety of stores including some great anchor stores I looked in to who manages it and that led me to take up a decent sized position in CUF.UN


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## 1.5M (Apr 21, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> Do you have a similar aversion to stores selling alcohol and smokes next to baby clothes?
> Smoking kills more people than guns do.
> So does alcohol - not to mention huge health care burdens for society.


I'll take this. Smoking kills the smoker (at least now when is properly regulated), the same as excess alcohol. Guns are usually for killing other people (although occasionally the owner is the victim). If a gun could be manufactured so that only the owner can kill himself I'd be all for it.

Back to the original question. I am trying to limit my shopping to what I need or want and that is usually not related to what I think other people want or need or to what the market it set to do at any particular moment in time.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

1.5M said:


> I'll take this. Smoking kills the smoker (at least now when is properly regulated), the same as excess alcohol. Guns are usually for killing other people (although occasionally the owner is the victim). If a gun could be manufactured so that only the owner can kill himself I'd be all for it.


Well, if you ask me, smoking and alcohol abuse have far bigger consequences than to the original addict.
And I am not speaking of second hand smoke inhalation, or alcohol related traffic accidents (although those are substantial as well).

I am speaking of the huge social and economic cost of supporting and treating smokers and habitual alcohol abusers, and their family members.
The cost of the health care system for smokers is _huge_.
Then there is the psychotherapy and other forms of non medical treatment required for the addicts and their family members.

I would say the aggregate social costs of smoking and alcohol abuse dwarfs the cost of gun violence.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

1.5M said:


> I. Guns are usually for killing other people (although occasionally the owner is the victim). .


and knoves and baseball bats too  so buy Toy'r'us stock....oh no they aold plastic guns 
btw, I was shooting from a lot of weapons, but my favorite is AK-47. Where can I buy stock that produces AK- 47?!


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

gibor said:


> Too bad I cannot buy LCBO stock


I have shares in Liquor Stores (LIQ) and I'll typically go to one of their stores to buy beer. But, like Four Pillars says, I won't go out of my way to shop there if another store is closer.


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## 1.5M (Apr 21, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> I would say the aggregate social costs of smoking and alcohol abuse dwarfs the cost of gun violence.


I'll agree with that, mainly because guns usually kill the victim quicker than smoking or alcohol abuse. But I thought smoking and alcohol are so heavily taxed to partly cover the social costs. 
Regarding my investing, I would not buy gun manufacturers or tobacco companies and only because I despise those products. But I can't avoid them because they are part of indices and I can't afford to boycott broad market ETFs (on the other side, if you hold a broad market ETF, pretty much everywhere you shop you're invested in).


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We buy our gas at Esso in Canada and we both have TelCel mobile phones. But I look at it the other way. I sometimes buy companies that I have experienced, but I hold Lulu, Tims and Apple because they are good companies IMHO. I bought TelCel (AMX) when I saw their potential in Latin America in 2001 but I could not buy Pemex.

I don't hold liquor, wine or tobacco stocks but it is not for any good reason.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

1.5M said:


> But I thought smoking and alcohol are so heavily taxed to partly cover the social costs.


Yes, but _partly_ is the key-word.
What portion of the aggregate social costs are the additional "sin" taxes covering?
I suspect it is a small portion only.



> Regarding my investing, I would not buy gun manufacturers or tobacco companies and only because I despise those products.


But we are not talking about investing in these companies.
We are talking about shopping at stores that also sell these products (like Wal*Mart).
All large retailers sell everything that is legal.
You may choose not to invest in these companies and that's fine, but boycotting a retail store because they also sell smokes, alcohol or guns IMO is too much.
Your choice of shooping outlets will be limited to speciality stores only.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I don't think this is a particularly relevant way to invest, after all, how do I buy Agrium products? I'm not a farmer. How do I use electricity from CPL? How can I get cell phone service from Verizon?

I invest in companies where I believe there is value and potential for return. I shop where I find value in the products, not where margins for the retailer are high (well aside from Apple) - sometimes these two things don't align.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I dislike the Rogers company so much, I would be thrilled to own enough shares to pay the bill in dividends.

Kind of like they are paying themselves.........but not really. Just would feel that way.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I shop with a conscience, therefore invest with a conscience. Hence, no smokes, no booze, no banks .... long exclusions list.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> *I shop with a conscience*, therefore invest with a conscience. Hence, no smokes, no booze, *no banks *.... long exclusions list.


Why does shopping with a conscience prevent you from investing with banks?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Let's say personal experience with internal thievery by the bank that resulted in a financial loss - not massive but enough to leave a very very very bad light.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> I shop with a conscience, therefore invest with a conscience. Hence, no smokes, no booze, no banks .... long exclusions list.


I'm opposite  investing (and using) into a lot of banks, smokes and booze, aslso stated to invest into weapon (LMT) :very_drunk:


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

sags said:


> I dislike the Rogers company so much, I would be thrilled to own enough shares to pay the bill in dividends.
> 
> Kind of like they are paying themselves.........but not really. Just would feel that way.



That would make me feel much better as well :biggrin:


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

liquidfinance said:


> That would make me feel much better as well :biggrin:


I'm practically disconnected from Rogers (still have 17.5 iPhone plan), but RCI.B is one of my biggest holding... I became even more bulish on RCI.B after disconnection, it took me so long time and nerves to leave them, and after to argue to reverse overcharges, that I don't beleive many customers will go through it....

My wife said that she would give up and stay with Rogers after first conversation about disconnection 

P.S. I spent a lot of time of the phone, but at the end, my overcharges became my credit and also got 2 gift cards $25 each for disconnection.


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## Feruk (Aug 15, 2012)

If I buy a consumer discretionary stock, it's because I like the products. For example I rode Under Armour (UA) a couple years back because their stuff is great for working out. Gas stations no because they don't make money on gasoline anyway; it's a snack business really which I don't buy often.

Sin stocks fantastic. My recent favorite is Geo Group (GEO). They are a REIT, but instead of owning condos, they own prisons down south! 6% dividends and heartwarming stories of how a warden cut costs by serving the inmates water instead of coffee with breakfast.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Feruk said:


> Sin stocks fantastic. My recent favorite is Geo Group (GEO). They are a REIT, but instead of owning condos, they own prisons down south! 6% dividends and heartwarming stories of how a warden cut costs by serving the inmates water instead of coffee with breakfast.


Nice  I like this approach! They can cut cost on many things...like, heating, cooling, electricity etc.... Should take a look at this one!


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## 1.5M (Apr 21, 2012)

Feruk said:


> Sin stocks fantastic. My recent favorite is Geo Group (GEO). They are a REIT, but instead of owning condos, they own prisons down south! 6% dividends and heartwarming stories of how a warden cut costs by serving the inmates water instead of coffee with breakfast.


And if you smoke weed while in US they may send you there and you'll be living where you're investing. Also I think their lobbying to increase incarceration rates for minor offenses is bullish.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

1.5M said:


> And if you smoke weed while in US they may send you there and *you'll be living where you're investing.*


LOL. :highly_amused:

But not if he does his pot-smoking in Colorado/Washington [and soon other state approvals will follow]. Just make sure Feruk that you're in the right state, and in possession of no more than 28g. :biggrin:

*Feruk: *I like your pick!


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I was watching a special on cnbc(On the public owned prison system)I've been looking @ the companies/stocks.They are actually worse than slave labour....alot of profits/revenue is being driven by the sale of their goods(They are into fisheries among other things,they are not just about license plates anymore....big business selling to other corps)There is actually uproar in some states because private company owners can just not compete with the labour cost ie:12c a day they pay the ''employees".(Inmates are taking jobs-some private companies have been driven out of business----they wiped out several fish farms)
I love ''sin'' stocks---esp pm.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

donald said:


> I was watching a special on cnbc(On the public owned prison system)I've been looking @ the companies/stocks.They are actually worse than slave labour.


This because you don't know who looked like prisons in USSR


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

1.5M said:


> And if you smoke weed while in US they may send you there and you'll be living where you're investing. Also I think their lobbying to increase incarceration rates for minor offenses is bullish.


so you mean that everyone is potential consumer of this stock 

Looks like they have a lot of Cash, very generous Xmas special dividend.... and if those guy expand to China, india etc, the growth can be tremendous


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I do think that alot of people do the opposite of the origianl question. In that they invest where they shop, or invest with products, companies that they like the products of.


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## dave2012 (Feb 17, 2012)

I prefer to invest in companies most of us hate which despite all the negative, they make us money and we are often stuck with them, no matter how bad they are. Bell, Telus, Rogers, any Canadian bank for example, oh and insurance companies like Sun Life. I don't like Tims coffee anymore (nor their bathrooms!) so after many year I finally dumped my Tims stock and moved into McDonalds instead. I love Boston Pizza but believe its not so healthy, and way overpriced, so I'll go less often but own it an enjoy a nice fat dividend.


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