# Worth buying?



## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Opinions on this place?


http://mobile.obeo.com/viewer/ipad.cfm?TourID=728241
http://www.remaxcondosplus.com/property.php?propid=C2274602&agent1=seamus


Going to check it out this weekend.

Sold earlier this year for $470,000, was listed at $625,000 now listed at $585,000.

Can rent the basement for $700+ which would cover $150,000 of mortgage, would leave ~$1,800/month for mortgage payment (from ~$2,500/month)

Slightly hesitant to jump into what looks to be a falling market at the moment. While I don't see a US style crash, I can see a 10-20% pullback which I would like to take advantage of.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

good god- that's what you'd pay for a decent 2-bedroom flat in Vancouver.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Simple answer, no. What will you do when the interest rates rise? It works out to about $100/month for EVERY $100,000 of loan for EACH percentage point increase. Interest rates go up 3% in 5 years, your underwater for the next 15+ depending on amortization.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Wow, that place is gorgeous, and reasonably priced (for Toronto). I want to buy it myself! I wonder if it will have a bidding war.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Looks lovely. I would do some more research before falling in love with the nice finishes.

As I recall, that area is not a prime area. It wasn't horrible, but not great. 

Also, I would never buy a flip house. I have friends who bought one and while it looked great, there were underlying problems (ie no insulation at all). I've heard stories of people who buy houses like this one, move in, fix it up and then sell. To do this economically, they need to skimp on everything except the finishes which is what the buyer sees.

My suggestions would be to do the following:

1) I would try to get some opinions on the area from someone who is more (recently) familiar with that neighbourhood.
2) Spend some time in the area. Ie walk around for an hour at night.
3) Phone city hall or go there in person and find out if the flipper got permits for this work. Did the work pass inspection? Are the permits now closed or are they still open?
4) This might be a long shot, but if city hall will tell you who did the inspection, give them a call and see if they remember this house. They might remember the house if there were problems (ie multiple inspections). Did they get the permits before starting work or did the neighbours rat them out?

The permits we got for a similar reno were plumbing, hvac, electrical and building. They should have gotten at least some, if not all of those permits.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I didn't even think about it being a flip house, but yeah... if it is then you do need to be concerned about the underlying work.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Just A Guy: I'm not too worried about the interest rates in 5 years, as I will likely have close to half of the mortgage paid off by that point (assuming I don't lose my job in the interim). The monthly payments are within my ability to pay from my base salary, and on top of that I get a decent sized bonus which is currently fully saved. 

FP: That's what I'm most worried about. Great looking but poorly done work. I have a close family friend who lived one street over for several years and they loved the area. I don't know it very well, but I think it's another of those "Transitioning" neighbourhoods (aren't they all?). Unfortunately I'm no handyman and don't know how to spot poorly done work, unless it's quite obvious.

Beyond a home inspection, how do you ever know if the house is in decent shape or falling apart? This is among my biggest worries with respect to purchasing a house. Spend $600,000 and find that the thing is falling apart or has any king of major issues.

Spudd: They first came to market, guess without any luck, so now they're back. Offers on Tuesday and apparently they're looking for a bidding war this time around.

Maybe offer $550,000 and see what happens. Not interested in fighting for it no matter what.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Dmoney said:


> FP: That's what I'm most worried about. Great looking but poorly done work. I have a close family friend who lived one street over for several years and they loved the area. I don't know it very well, but I think it's another of those "Transitioning" neighbourhoods (aren't they all?). Unfortunately I'm no handyman and don't know how to spot poorly done work, unless it's quite obvious.
> 
> Beyond a home inspection, how do you ever know if the house is in decent shape or falling apart? This is among my biggest worries with respect to purchasing a house. Spend $600,000 and find that the thing is falling apart or has any king of major issues.


The problem is that some stuff is impossible to figure out until something goes wrong or your heating bills are really high. 

Houses in that area are pretty old, so if you buy something that isn't up to date, you could be looking at a lot of money to fix it up. My negativity toward flip houses is not because the potential for shoddy work - the reality is that they are probably still better than most houses that haven't been fixed up. The problem is more that you might end up overpaying for a house that is only beautiful on the surface.

At least with an out-of-date house in that area (and mine) you can safely assume that the plumbing/electrical/insulation are all very substandard and have to be redone along with anything else that might need doing. Big bucks, but the initial purchase cost will be lower.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Ya, if I had the time, I'd love to buy an older much cheaper place and do the reno myself. I think the experience would be amazing. Unfortunately with the hours I work, there's not much time to devote to a major reno.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Is that basement fridge over-sized and making the ceiling look low or is it just me? I think I would bump my head down there. It looks nice otherwise. I think it's pricey for the area but Ossington is blowing up right now and people are losing their minds. When it sold for 470K did it already have this work done to it? You wouldn't find me in a house personally for the short or long term, I just don't enjoy it, there's always work to do.

There is some downward pressure happening finally but not everywhere, at least not in my neighbourhood for existing stock.. I've only noticed the upper-end of the res market getting squeezed. I believe future stock is getting hit, some projects are decreasing height and that's happening on the commercial side as well.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

No, work was done after it sold for $470,000. I think it's more likely that it's a regular sized fridge, and a small basement. Overall, rooms are small, basement small, so will go see it on the weekend but those may be factors.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Well it's a good rental area.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Great rental area from what I know. 
Apparently not worth looking at though. 
Low ceilings and shoddy worksmanship. 
FP, you had it right with the quality of a flip house.
Luckily there's absolutely no rush.


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## GTA Mortgage (Aug 29, 2012)

The finishing is really nice...separate entrance in the basement is key for renting. What did you end up deciding?


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