# #Occupy



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

No one has made a thread on this yet? I'd say it's even on topic for the forum

Corporate greed really disturbed me for a long time but now I just buy stocks to survive. I still think the current setup is detrimental to our society and environment. It seems the longer any system stays in place the more people learn to exploit it and wealth disparity grows.

I stopped watching TV news years ago because I found it brain numbing. Caught the repetitious coverage on the drive home and the quotes CBC was airing were clearly biased.

We are the 99%


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

First of all, they lost their credibility when they all showed up to protest for different reasons, but no realistic solution, and then held a moment for Steve Jobs when he died.. there focus is very unclear, thoughless and amature. 

Then, they did road blocks and blocked street cars from passing?

They are also supported by union activist and unions are basically fraudulent, stealing money from brainwashed, manipulated employees and providing no value to companies who employ them. 

Nobody should be given a hand out for nothing, successful people had to work their @ss off to get where they're at, and may be talented. Why should they hand out money for that? Nothing in life comes free.

What about the rock stars, pro athletes that make too much money, should they give some to hippies too? 

I think some of these university students are there just because it's the cool thing to do, plus they can pick up chicks in their class that are passionate about this nonsense. They might get laid. 

They have accomplished nothing other than making people scratch their heads. Smart people who know their time is valuable ignore this and work on doing something productive. ie: making money.

Other than the law, there is nothing stopping them from building their empire and receiving their handout by working for it... After all, it's a _free_ capitalist world.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

RFDs is ridiculous.

I have no qualms with the few type-A's earning their share. The mass majority of people just want to put in a reasonable day's work and go home to live life for 8 hours with a comfortable salary. The top are siphoning off more wealth every year, and it's just not sustainable

I don't think people are protesting for free hand outs, but that's exactly how the news spins it


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Smart people who know their time is valuable ignore this and work on doing something productive. ie: making money.


Jungle,

In addition to your gold star, you may take a cookie from the jar.

You know what I would do if I didn't have a job?

I would go to the protest and start selling something. Start selling Occupy shirts. Start selling drinks on the street for these people. Make a small little "Create your Sign" booth. Most of these people obviously have money - they are smoking and using cell phones and laptops. 

They're just bitching and complaining with no direction, using the issues of the past and present in the US to try and justify their whining.

A lot of corporations also give to the public. They give to needy people or organizations. They donate money. They provide money for healthcare or poor families. People are forgetting this.

I don't have any sympathy.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> The top are siphoning off more wealth every year, and it's just not sustainable



The way to the top is not to waste time sitting around smoking dope and peeing in the bushes.

Same crap as the 60's....matter of time till a cop car burns and then heads get cracked...hopefully not Kent State again.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

So what are you guys doing to improve world issues?


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Now Harper has removed public funding of political parties, if this movement grows large enough maybe they can attract some capital and campaign for the next election. I think I read US OWS had raised up to $300K last week. Nice to have an alternative to end the government Tea Partiers.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Jungle said:


> First of all, they lost their credibility when they all showed up to protest for different reasons, but no realistic solution..
> Then, they did road blocks and blocked street cars from passing?
> 
> They are also supported by union activist and unions are basically fraudulent, stealing money from brainwashed, manipulated employees and *providing no value to companies who employ them*.


Well in today's "assembly line mentality",unions still protect those that have only one basic skill and may have difficulty to retrain because of their age and the job market. 



> I think some of these university students are there just because it's the cool thing to do,* plus they can pick up chicks in their class that are passionate about this nonsense. They might get laid. *


Interesting "theory" you have there...
At least, they are not into rioting like they did in Vancouver, this year.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

You know who you don't see complaining? Tradespeople, professionals, doctors, nurses... people who complete training or education that leads to employment. 

Hate to break it to the history/psych/women's studies majors... Your degree is worth less than the paper it's printed on. That's partly the education system's fault, but more so, it's your fault. 

Canada needs plumbers, electricians, carpenters, jobs you get *paid* to learn. But these people chose instead to enter fields with no prospects and racked up huge debt to do so. In a thriving economy there was no room for these people, yet universities kept cranking them out. 

I see all these sob stories... "I have three degrees including a PhD in Native American pottery" Bingo, there's your problem... were your other two a Master's in dream catching and a bachelors of peace pipe smoking? Who did you expect to hire you?

It would also help if a lot of these people tried to fit in. Bathe, cut your hair, lose the piercings, cover up the tattoos. Don't blame the world for your shortcomings.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

ddkay said:


> Now Harper has removed public funding of political parties, if this movement grows large enough maybe they can attract some capital and campaign for the next election. I think I read US OWS had raised up to $300K last week. Nice to have an alternative to end the government Tea Partiers.


I read an article saying Obama may raise over $1B for his re-election campaign... Don't get your hopes up that OWS will even be a factor. Hard to be an economic player when your existence is due to lack of jobs.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

I'd agree that it's pretty silly and unfocused and the timing is bizarre (right before a Canadian winter...good luck with that). 

But I appreciate the effort, and hope it somehow grows into something larger. I think the Canadian movement will be difficult to sustain, but the US one might go on simply because people don't have anything better to do. There are no jobs to apply for. 

I think it's easy to dismiss the group as a bunch of whacko hippies with no real life skills wanting hand-outs. But that wouldn't be fair or accurate. It's always easier to reject an opposing view than it is to try to understand it. There are valid concerns here, from ridiculous tuition costs to the rising gap in income. 

Why did CEO pay increase 27% when regular wages increased only 2.1% in 2010? I've worked with lots of people in the 1%, and most are not even close to deserving their level of compensation. Some, I would have problems justifying even minimum wage for. 

That's just anecdotal, and for every anecdote like that, I'm sure we can come up with one for some stupid college kid freezing in the rain right now just to get laid. But the anger behind the movement is real, and it may need to be taken seriously at some point.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Dmoney said:


> You know who you don't see complaining? Tradespeople, professionals, doctors, nurses... people who complete training or education that leads to employment.


These are the motivated people that have a desire to make something of their lives, and try to earn a lucrative living at it.



> I see all these sob stories... "I have three degrees including a PhD in Native American pottery" Bingo, there's your problem... were your other two a Master's in dream catching and a bachelors of peace pipe smoking? Who did you expect to hire you?


The illusion of having degrees in something added to your name and being
an educated scholar, starts in the high school phase of education.

Kids are out of touch these days with what Canada may need now, never
mind in the next 8 years. By the time they finish 4 years of high school, and up to 4 years of university with a huge personal debt to start off their careers with,
they are more confused than ever.
They are ready to do something, but not quite sure of what?..so while they are looking for that occupation they are qualified for..
they take on any temporary jobs.."do you want fries with that"? 

The schools and universities with their core of PHDs (Piled Higher and Deeper), on staff for several years, are out of touch with demand, and frankly they don't even care what happens to their students after graduation.
They at least, *have* a steady job. 

In an ever fast changing pace of technology replacing factory workers,
jobs being outsourced to other countries, and public school budgets being tightened against further hiring of teachers, it's not easy to find a place where an academic can find employment, unless they have some special skills besides that
degree in sociology or anthropology..or a doctor of letters etc. 

Even technology workers these days can be dumped as companies go under, or downsize, so even an MSc or EE (Electrical Eng) is no longer protection for steady employment and protection from being layed off. 



> It would also help if a lot of these people tried to fit in. Bathe, cut your hair, lose the piercings, cover up the tattoos. Don't blame the world for your shortcomings.


Perhaps this is the fault of our society condoning this kind of mindset? 
Encouraged to become free thinkers with a university education..why should they soil their hands or even use them besides operating a keyboard?

Piercings and tattoos and long hair..and cleavage amply displayed everywhere...
...well that's their individuality on display..after all they *are* educated free thinkers, with cuma sum laude degrees bestowed upon attending 3 or 4 years of university. Encouraged by the profs to think on their own, determine "where it's at" in their own minds, unencumbered by the routines of society and the workplace they must find that ideal job where they fit in. 

Canada needs free thinkers too...perhaps these individuals could form "think tanks" or join political parties to become politicians, so they could try to solve our problems, and maybe the world's too..while drawing unemployment benefits.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

From what I have seen, there is a wide diversity among the protestors.

There are a wide range of grievances being aired.......because there are a wide range of grievances to discuss.

That is simply different boats tied to the same dock.

The root is the transfer of wealth and associated power to the elite. They control, not only their own money, but also the public's money by virtue of their ownership of politicians. In the US, the financial industry is responsible for the major portion of election financing.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> You know what I would do if I didn't have a job?
> 
> I would go to the protest and start selling something. Start selling Occupy shirts. Start selling drinks on the street for these people. Make a small little "Create your Sign" booth. Most of these people obviously have money - they are smoking and using cell phones and laptops.
> 
> They're just bitching and complaining with no direction, using the issues of the past and present in the US to try and justify their whining.


That's exactly how the mainstream media portrays it. They don't bother investigating why people are angry, or why terrorists are angry for that matter. They're just "crazy bad people" that make no sense with no direction or reason.

You can't really expect protesters to all be good speakers or highly educated etc. There are good speakers, great authors on this subject but they are 100% ignored by the media. It's very easy to cherry pick interviews and I'm sure there are people with really poor explanations or reasons to be protesting.

I'm sure there are lots of educated people who agree with views of best selling Canadian authors such as Naomi Klein. I'm also sure most of them aren't going to quite their job to "occupy Wall/Bay street", which explain why they are mostly unemployed uneducated protesters



> On October 6, 2011, Klein visited Occupy Wall Street and gave a speech declaring the protest movement "The most important thing in the world."


Are best selling authors bitching and complaining unemployed people with no direction?



KaeJS said:


> A lot of corporations also give to the public. They give to needy people or organizations. They donate money. They provide money for healthcare or poor families. People are forgetting this.
> 
> I don't have any sympathy.


Sure they do, for one it's great advertisement and a tax right off to boot. In the best case that's all they get out of it, but in many cases they have a hidden agenda as well. It's quite common for corps to exploit people in foreign countries by pretending to help them, and putting it down on paper as charity. They also expect favours when they provide funding to international organizations etc. A corporation's only true goal is to maximize profit. There needs to be a balance of regulation to keep them in check. We now have national regulations and multi-national corps who can just geographically avoid the regulations they want.

Money is power and there is far too much power in a few people's hands. We've learned many times that a concentration of power is bad, but most people think we live in a democracy and wonder why their vote seems so meaningless



sags said:


> The root is the transfer of wealth and associated power to the elite. They control, not only their own money, but also the public's money by virtue of their ownership of politicians. In the US, the financial industry is responsible for the major portion of election financing.


Exactly


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

New report shows more workers falling behind average wage level

I think the first 3 paragraphs of this article pretty much sum up the way the US has gone:



> Fifty percent of U.S. workers earned less than $26,364 last year, reflecting a growing income gap between the nation’s rich and poor, the government reported Thursday.
> 
> There were fewer jobs, and overall pay was trending down — except for the nation’s wealthiest. The number of people making $1 million or more soared by over 18 percent from 2009, the Social Security Administration said, citing payroll data based on W-2 forms submitted by employers to the Internal Revenue Service.
> 
> Despite population growth, the number of Americans with jobs fell again last year, with total employment of just under 150.4 million — down from 150.9 million in 2009 and 155.4 million in 2008. In all, there were 5.2 million fewer jobs than in 2007, when the deep recession began, according to the IRS data.


At the same time that over 5 million jobs were lost and overall pay went down, there was an 18% increase in millionaires.

If that doesn't paint a picture of inequality, I don't know what does.

Again, a lot of these people don't have their masters in economics or biology. They didn't finish in the top 10 of their law class. There seems to be an opinion that if you're not one of the best and brightest, you don't really deserve to live a decent life. 

But even among white collar jobs, we're finding many are being outsourced now and many degrees that used to guarantee employment (engineering as an example) are becoming harder to find.

It's easy to dismiss it without looking at the data. Many hardcore right-wingers in America still believe bankruptcy is caused by poor decisions by stupid people, even though half of bankruptcies are related to medical reasons. It's just easier to dismiss a problem than to truly understand it.

The Occupy Toronto movement will probably amount to nothing. Things aren't as bad here. But I think the New York one has a chance to be the real deal. A lot of those people have nothing to go home to and nothing left. They're borderline desperate.


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## jagger (Jan 12, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e84L-Xsrxmg&feature=feedu

I wonder why they don't occupy the white house or the union halls. After all, the government meddled into a reasonably healthy economy, and bailed out most of these failing businesses. Unions have continued to demand higher benefits in these tough economic times. Any unionized industry is in a major downfall; auto workers, teachers, etc. When you pay everyone the same, and can't promote the best people, or fire the slackers; that's what you get.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html



> Jonathan I. Katz
> 
> Professor of Physics
> 
> ...


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> That's exactly how the mainstream media portrays it. They don't bother investigating why people are angry, or why terrorists are angry for that matter. They're just "crazy bad people" that make no sense with no direction or reason.
> 
> You can't really expect protesters to all be good speakers or highly educated etc. There are good speakers, great authors on this subject but they are 100% ignored by the media. It's very easy to cherry pick interviews and I'm sure there are people with really poor explanations or reasons to be protesting.
> 
> ...


Okay, so they've been occupying near my building for a couple of weeks now. I"ve walked by and tried to understand what they are protesting. Today, I took my lunch hour to read all their billboards and anything else that could provide me insight. I found only a few people near there. I asked what is it that they really want, they said, it's clear on the signs, but couldn't articulate anything.

Some of the signs said, they want democracy, jobs, peace, to end capitalism. Then my favorite right under their requests for donations, they also wrote out a laptop with an air card. 

I don't think I was cherry picking, but they lost any chance of earning any respect from me. They had a person there (me) who really wanted to know, and they told me to read their incoherent signs. They don't want they heck they want.


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## Ziggy (May 16, 2011)

I've been following the Occupy movement more closely since the 15th.

To me it is like watching Survivor: Urban Landscape.

Over 1000 cities and almost 7 billion people attempt to see which new urban tribe can sustain itself.

Police interventions are one of many penalties for failing a challenge.

Special Donations such as solar panels are rewards for passing specific challenges.

Challenges include
- Proper Sanitation
- Dealing with the Homeless
- Dealing with people with mental issues
- Dealing with drugs and alcohol
- Dealing with the Weather
- etc

Once a particular tribe has truly become sustainable, then they can start tackling issues outside of their camp more effectively. I think this is an issue that few of them realize.

It looks like Occupy Wall Street is well on their way towards sustainability. Most other Occupations are failing on the challenges I listed above. That being said, the Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver occupations seem to be getting their act together with various degrees of success.

I think it is important to observe and engage the occupy movement because this is a chance for all people to engage in the democratic process. I don't expect all of the occupiers to but if this event get even a small fraction to truly participate in our democratic system, and by that I don't just mean voting at the ballot box, then it has a net positive effect on society.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

*Somebody get me a KitKat, 'cause I need a break from these people.*

_"Two lovebirds who met protesting Wall Street in Zuccotti Park tied the knot Sunday morning at a humble ceremony in a small corner of the ongoing demonstration.

In front of about a dozen friends and onlookers, Emery Abdel-Latif, 24, and Micha Balon, 19, held a traditional Muslim wedding on Trinity Place and Liberty Street, perched on a small bench next to the park's famous sculpture of a seated man with a briefcase."_










Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...birds-tie-knot-article-1.976954#ixzz1deKVlcwC


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