# Rogers Sugar Inc. (RSI.TO)



## Canuck

any insight into the fall today?


----------



## Young&Ambitious

I can only guess people expect poor earnings to be announced.


----------



## Beaver101

don't know, don't care, long term holding (forever hopefully). each:


----------



## Canuck

ya i guess it must be that, can't see any other news, moving back up a bit now


----------



## Canuck

BEaver101....totally agree just was thinking of adding more and wanted to make sure I wasn't catching a falling knife


----------



## Beaver101

Held this small-cap for a couple years now ... went down right after I bought it but it recovered nicely plus collecting the dividends in the meantime. Can't come close to set it and forget it ... this industry (sugar-refinery) ain't going away anytime soon.


----------



## Echo

The Board just declared a special dividend of 36 cents per share to be paid to shareholders of record on February 8th, payable on or before February 28th

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/rogers-sugar-inc-interim-report-213000689.html

Sweet! 

Get it...?


----------



## doctrine

The stock will almost certainly rise at least 36 cents tomorrow to reflect the special dividend.


----------



## Eder

Wow...I thought sugar was having a hard time recently but a special dividend is always welcome.


----------



## Beaver101

doctrine said:


> The stock will almost certainly rise at least 36 cents tomorrow to reflect the special dividend.


 .. and I have no problem with that ... just surprising sweet news :encouragement: ... now I can go get a Big bag of gummies to last me for the next "special" dividend or a raise, hoo, hoo! ... or maybe not, if they implement a DRIP before that :biggrin:



> *Echo: * ... Get it...?


 ... in my overexcitement, I forgot to post something for Echo for this headsup announcement so *Thanks Echo! * And cheers!


----------



## liquidfinance

What are the latest thoughts on this one? Price has come down a bit so I'm starting to think it could be a good time to get in. Need to take a look through the financials though. Dividend is also looking attractive.


----------



## Beaver101

Sweet, thanks for the alert. I'm taking out my grocery carts again on this one, time to load up. (I'm a lazy investor). :biggrin:


----------



## doctrine

After EPS of $0.47 in 2012, they are on track for a lower EPS of $0.37 this year. In the last year, they made a big special dividend of $0.36 and maintained their quarterly dividend of $0.09 a share throughout, so a quick look at their book value shows a decrease in shareholder equity from $282M to $242M in the last 12 months. I don't see a huge opportunity here, the price could easily fall to 2011 levels when it traded around $5.00 to $5.15. A P/B of 2 would be $5.10 a share which would be a P/E of 13.7.


----------



## My Own Advisor

Not a big fan of this one...more like a penny stock....but very tempting to buy closer to $5.


----------



## Eder

I own a lot of this...income stock ...sugar is under pressure short term but I like 6% tax advantaged income...I think $5 or so is a great spot to load up...I dont think it will get there though.


----------



## Beaver101

My Own Advisor said:


> Not a big fan of this one...more like a penny stock....but very tempting to buy closer to $5.


 ... may I ask what's one's definition of a penny stock that one is not a fan of? A tempting price below $5 or above $5?



> *Eder:* ... I don't think it will get there though.


 ... agree, a quick look up shows the last time this stock touched a $5 low was Oct. 11, 2011 (which I did not get - bought close to $6 around Christmas 2011).


----------



## My Own Advisor

That's probably a bit severe, the penny stock moniker. I see RSI as a speculative stock, that's all, but I suppose most smaller cap stocks are like that.

I'd like to buy more larger caps before smaller caps. Got my eye on more CPG, COS, TD and NA.


----------



## Beaver101

RSI is speculative small cap? Yikes, I got them in my RRSP ... mabye my next cart-load should go under a non-registered account to harvest the tax advantage as pointed out by Eder. 

Re those large caps, I own none of them. But then that's me, different strokes for different folks.... cheers! eaceful:


----------



## Loon

Considering adding to my position here but I'm a little worried about such a high dividend. They had that special dividend earlier in the year. Are they likely to chase that with cut?


----------



## Canadian

Its payout has been ~100% the past couple years and free cash flow is down quite a bit compared to last year. I wouldn't go as far to say I am certain the dividend will be cut, but signs are present.


----------



## yyz

They also issued a release that the EU free trade deal opens up some markets for them.That was a week or 2 ago and the stock rebounded a bit.


----------



## Eder

Article here to help you decide (I own a ton of this)

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1851791-will-rising-sugar-prices-be-sweet-news-for-rogers-sugar


----------



## Canadian

Eder, do you hold it for the income or are you bullish on sugar prices / this specific company?


----------



## doctrine

Before jumping in, I would take a close look at the trade deal to be sure there were no negatives. Rogers benefits from import tariffs as they process everything in Canada. Not sure if they are a "low cost" producer or how they stack up against international companies.


----------



## Eder

Canadian said:


> Eder, do you hold it for the income or are you bullish on sugar prices / this specific company?


I hold this for income. Sugar use per capita seems to be declining long term and markets are very protected.


----------



## Canadian

Eder said:


> Sugar use per capita seems to be declining long term


I was thinking that - given consumer trends towards healthier lifestyles, as well as manufacturers using cheaper substitutes in their products.

Also, considering where sugar canes grow, I can't picture a small-cap Canadian-based company being a cost leader in the sugar industry by any means. Perhaps this industry will enter a consolidation phase in the future?


----------



## andrewf

If I'm not mistaken, most sugar processed in NA is from sugar beets.


----------



## Eder

Nope....only about 10% of Rogers production comes from beets....rest from processed cane imported.


----------



## andrewf

My statement is probably still true, given the tariffs the US places on sugar imports.

I always thought that refined sugar is always produced close to market because:
-raw sugar (cane or beets) is bulk cargo and cheap to store and transport
-refined sugar is heavy and relatively low value, and costlier to store and transport

Same kinds of reasons that cement is usually produced close to where it is used.


----------



## Canadian

I just looked up the sugar yields from beets vs canes and they're very comparable. Why wouldn't RSI use more beets in its production? Building off andrewf's comment, wouldn't transportation costs and tariffs outweigh the cost savings of labour in the sugar cane countries?


----------



## andrewf

I think beets are only competitive with cane in the US because of the import tariffs. Canada doesn't have those tariffs, so US or Canadian beets have to compete with sugar cane at something more like the world market price.

The US sugar market is seriously messed up. This drove soft drink makers to move to high fructose corn syrup and encouraged several candy makers to move their operations to Canada.


----------



## Eder

Canada has I believe an 8% tariff on refined sugar imports but nothing on raw cane sugar imports. I think the US has like a 150% tariff on any sugar shipped to the US that exceeds quota's. The sugar business is a basket case of protectionist crapola but I like Rogers Sugar dividend and if things get back to average they will cover it next year. I'll buy more at $5.


----------



## Killer Z

Eder said:


> Canada has I believe an 8% tariff on refined sugar imports but nothing on raw cane sugar imports. I think the US has like a 150% tariff on any sugar shipped to the US that exceeds quota's. The sugar business is a basket case of protectionist crapola but I like Rogers Sugar dividend and if things get back to average they will cover it next year. I'll buy more at $5.


Eder, it appears RSI is getting close to your $5/share target .....down 9.3% in the past 5 days. I may purchase some more too should it dip below $5.


----------



## My Own Advisor

I own any yet and waiting for a dip to buy. Seems like a good entry, now below 52-week low.


----------



## Beaver101

Do it! I already have my grocery cart backed up ... :greedy_dollars:


----------



## Toronto.gal

Eder said:


> I like Rogers Sugar dividend and if things get back to average they will cover it next year. I'll buy more at $5.


The yield is a bit too high for my liking, but I like the idea that 1,000 sh would allow me to synthetically drip around 60 sh/yr. [@ an average annual sh price of $6].

Did you buy more, like Beav did?


----------



## al42

A bit of insider activity the past few weeks...I took the plunge for 1000 shares.
We'll see tomorrow how it plays out.
Jan 4/14 Jan 2/14 Belkin, Alton Stuart Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 1,222 $5.37
Jan 3/14 Jan 2/14 Lafrance, Daniel Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 581 $5.37
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Ross, M. Dallas H. Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 800 $5.36
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Ross, M. Dallas H. Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 73 $5.37
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Bergmame, Dean Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 853 $5.37
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Heskin, Michael Andrew Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 853 $5.38
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Jewell, Donald Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 1,037 $5.38
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Maslechko, William S. Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 583 $5.36
Jan 2/14 Jan 2/14 Desbiens, Michel Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 1,507 $5.36


----------



## Eder

Toronto.gal said:


> The yield is a bit too high for my liking, but I like the idea that 1,000 sh would allow me to synthetically drip around 60 sh/yr. [@ an average annual sh price of $6].
> 
> Did you buy more, like Beav did?


It's not $5 yet...may be soon though!!


----------



## Andrej

Wouldn't RSI's price be correlated to certain emerging market currencies? If they (ie Brazil) weaken, wouldn't domestic supply become less attractive? Does this explain the recent selloff?


----------



## al42

Earnings out, not so good!!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/news-sources/?mid=ccnm.20140130.201401300924819001


----------



## doctrine

With $0.35 in earnings, they had a 103% payout ratio for the trailing 12 months. If you like the 7% yield, that might be all you get for some time with an outlook for declining margins on similar sales for the next year.


----------



## Andrej

Eder said:


> Nope....only about 10% of Rogers production comes from beets....rest from processed cane imported.


If this is the case, RSI would BENEFIT from struggling emerging market currencies. 
Eder, where's your info from?


----------



## Eder

annual report


----------



## the-royal-mail

$4.76


----------



## Toronto.gal

Still not sure, 2 buy or not.


----------



## Killer Z

Added to my position at $4.68/share.


----------



## Pano

Also interested in this one. But, how safe is that dividend?


----------



## Beaver101

As safe as the price of the stock ... you pay and take your chances on this. 

Interesting to see post #37 despite the bad news.


----------



## underemployedactor

Couldn't resist a little bottom feeding. Looking for a dead cat bounce, or a divvy cut and relief rally.


----------



## OurBigFatWallet

I bought some RSI yesterday on the 9% nosedive it took when their earnings come out. Someone mentioned only buy if you are happy with 7%. I am quite content with that. I expect it to hover around $5 for a while but will hold for the long term


----------



## al42

Had a stink bid in at $6.61 that got filled for another 1000 shares.
We'll be watching closely.


----------



## Toronto.gal

How did u manage that *Al?* You mean $4.61.


----------



## al42

How did u manage that Al? You mean $4.61.

You're right $4.61...still sleeping!!

Wow, really sleeping. I even recorded it as $6.61 on my spreadsheet.
Thanks TGal, I just saved 2k.


----------



## Eder

I'm buying more here...happy its under $5. This is purely a commodity play....the only pop that can happen is if the USA allows a few extra contracts to enter the country like last year...we got a special 50 cent divy due to Rogers jumping on that.

Dividend can/will drop ...atm Rogers has a lot of unused capacity since there's no market for more sugar but they have a near monopoly on Canada (we tax the crap out of sugar imports) so the business is not going away.


----------



## OurBigFatWallet

In the past couple years they paid out a special cash div in February.....my guess is that's definitely off the table this year


----------



## Killer Z

OurBigFatWallet said:


> In the past couple years they paid out a special cash div in February.....my guess is that's definitely off the table this year


The last two were on Jan 31st, 2011 ($0.0383) and February 28, 2013 ($0.36). Both were declared in January so I think it's safe to say there will not be one this year.


----------



## My Own Advisor

No special divi this year. Next stop $4.


----------



## Killer Z

My Own Advisor said:


> No special divi this year. Next stop $4.


You might very well be correct. Another nose dive day for RSI. I am glad I cashed out shortly after I averaged down.


----------



## My Own Advisor

I was going to buy around $5. I will wait until $4.


----------



## OurBigFatWallet

My cost is still north of $5 so looks like I'm in long term. $4 soon I'm sure and no special div this year. I think it will recover but it will take a while


----------



## Young&Ambitious

I'm waiting to see where the stock price is going... but I am interested. Gosh feels good to be back and looking at stock prices, reports, and news :chuncky:


----------



## Dom

Young&Ambitious said:


> I'm waiting to see where the stock price is going... but I am interested. Gosh feels good to be back and looking at stock prices, reports, and news :chuncky:


If it hits 4, Im In!!!


----------



## Loon

At the current price the dividend yield is getting ridiculous ( > 8%). Are you guys anticipating a cut, and if so is that cut already built into the price?


----------



## Westerly

While I wouldn't have minded catching the bounce this AM, I have a hard time seeing upside with this. Cash flow is draining fast and div is 100+% of earnings. Other than short term bounces I try to steer away from divs that are over 60% of earnings. This will have to be cut, sell more shares, or show us something new. Long term Rogers is a 4% yield stock.

I walked through the super market this AM and noted Rogers' near monopoly, but also see artificial and natural sweeteners such as Stevia with a significant amount of shelf space (relatively speaking.) Not that it will put R out of business by itself, but Stevia is being accepted quickly as a natural replacement at the retail and manufacturing levels. 

That's the extend of my opinion, I'll leave the TA to the pros.


----------



## Beaver101

RSI is a low maintenance buy and hold "cyclic" stock. 

Without detailing each year (too tedious to list here), a 10 years' history (2004 to 2013 inclusive) has shown the price has gone to as low as $2.84 (low of 2009) to as high as $6.70 (high of 2012) with prices fluctuating ("the noise") mostly inbetween $4.50 to $5.50 (give or take a few pennies).

Past *11* years' dividend history from google finance (rounded to nearest or next penny):
2013=$.36 (excluding a first quarter special dividend).
'12 = .36
'11 = .34
'10 = .46
'09 = .46
'08 = .46
'07 = .36
'06 = .41
'05 = .36
'04 =1.20

Seems pretty stable up there. First quarter 2014 dividend of $.09 / share has already been declared on January 30, 2014. Doesn't look like the dividend is going to disappear anytime soon nor is the company. Stock price at the moment is $4.46 - heading back up. * Warning: buy at your own risk.*


----------



## OurBigFatWallet

As someone else mentioned they appear to have a monopoly on the sugar industry. Are there really any other similar sized players that can compete with Rogers? For what it's worth I don't think our addiction to sugar and sugar products is going away any time soon. The stock did go up a bit today so hopefully it will head up back towards $5


----------



## the-royal-mail

^ I tend to agree. Rogers is a very large company and supplier of this very important product. Ever eat breakfast in a restaurant? Loaded with sugar. Processed food? Loaded with sugar. Sure, a growing subset of the population does try to make healthy eating choices but there will always be a demand for sugar.


----------



## Westerly

I don't think anyone is suggesting Rogers is literally going under and sugar will certainly have its place, but it's a sell on my watch list and many are calling for $4.25. Still wouldn't be sweet enough for me at their payout ratio and ultimately they're going to have to do something about cash flow. Maybe I'll look again closer to $4. If not, enjoy!


----------



## OurBigFatWallet

I think they've had a consistent history of paying out decent dividends in the past 8 years as someone mentioned above. It's not an ideal situation they're in but Rogers is definitely good for the dividends and I consider it a 'hold'


----------



## plasmasnake

Did anybody pick this up? I bought at $4.46 (only 120 shares, I just had ~$600 in accumulated dividends that I was trying to decide what to do with), and it's up to $4.78 now, I think the recent spike was due to Scotiabank upgrading their rating?


----------



## OurBigFatWallet

I agree, recent jump likely due to Scotiabank increasing their rating. Any idea what caused them to upgrade it to outperform?


----------



## plasmasnake

It's funny how this stock jumps every once in a while when the analyst ratings change, only to fall back down to the $4.40s.


----------



## james4beach

RSI popped into my head today, so I'm taking a fresh look at their financials and deliberately not looking at the posts above me, to hopefully get an unbiased view of it.

On technical analysis, the price looks interesting to me as it's come way off its 2013 highs, but as still rallied back above and held above its 200 day moving average for some time, which is encouraging.

Financials ~ very preliminary ~ I do waaay more research before actually buying something ~

Net incomes
2012: $30.3 million
2013: $36.5 million +20% one year
2014: $29.2 million -20% one year

The part that immediately raises my eyebrows is that gross income was pretty similar in 2013 and 2014. Why the big drop in net income? The huge drop in net income _is almost entirely attributable to $6 million higher "Administration and selling expenses"_ (employee costs). The company spent around $3 million on management consultants for process improvement. That's a lot of money to blow on high-priced consultants.

Employee costs were $18.2 million in 2013, and $24.3 million in 2014. Now keep in mind that includes the whopping $3 million they spent on the consultants.

Their reports say they expect, as a result of the layoffs, to achieve labour savings of $5 million in 2015 [see below for why we can't rely on this estimate]. I would be more realistic and guess that they will also suffer some impediment to producing gross income (due to fewer employees) so I might adjust that number down and say that their layoffs could achieve employee cost reduction of maybe $3.5 million ... what I'm doing here is being lazy and eyeballing the _net income impact_ from the layoffs. It's not a full $5 million benefit to net income, I'm figuring maybe 70% of that.

Do you see the problem? They've just blown $3 million on management consultants to achieve $3.5 million reduction in labour costs. And that's after their 2014 labour costs increased by $3 million, and that could have been in extra compensation to management or something, for all I know. I wouldn't be surprised actually. It's a common story for companies to lay off workers, management and executives to enrich themselves with higher compensation, and shareholders to not benefit from any of this. 

It's virtually a wash!! *By my projection, the impact of those labour cost "savings" and all the layoffs causes virtually no benefit to net income next year, other than the $3 million savings by not paying the consultants again* They have not become more efficient on labour costs, and I suspect they just wasted a huge amount of money on those consultants. In fact earlier they projected $2 million on those consultant fees, and were wrong... they over-spent by 50% versus their projection of the consultant costs. Given that they over-spent so dramatically on the consultant costs, it's a reasonable bet that the net income savings will also under-deliver. It's pretty clear they had rose coloured glasses when looking at this whole process consultant "overhaul" experience, and it's very likely going to under-deliver. They released a bunch of headlines about productivity enhancements... very silly stuff. We're talking Office Space here.

This makes me suspicious of management, the quality of their estimates, and whether they're acting in the shareholder interest. Wasting money is never a positive thing. On top of it, they laid off 7% of their workforce for seemingly no financial benefit.


----------



## james4beach

Any comments? After hovering around the $4.50 range for 18 months, the stock finally dropped lower to around $4.20.

Google says the dividend yield is now 8.5%

Thoughts? As I posted above, I'm not too confident in their management so I've been hesitant to buy. I would consider buying it if it plummeted a bit further, as I'm really not sure it's good value here.


----------



## Beaver101

^


> As I posted above, I'm not too confident in their management so I've been hesitant to buy. I would consider buying it if it plummeted a bit further, as I'm really not sure it's good value here.


Buy, set, forget and prosper as can't time the markets. This monopoly ain't going anywhere. 

And from your earlier post #73:


> It's a common story for companies to lay off workers, *management and executives to enrich themselves with higher compensation*, and shareholders to not benefit from any of this.


 ... and tell me which blue-chip companies doesn't do this?


----------



## besmartrich

Beaver101 said:


> ^
> 
> Buy, set, forget and prosper as can't time the markets. This monopoly ain't going anywhere.
> 
> And from your earlier post #73:
> ... and tell me which blue-chip companies doesn't do this?


Haha you got it!


----------



## fatcat

i always buy their sugar so you can count on me for at least a pound a week james :rugby:


----------



## CPA Candidate

The industry is facing a secular decline in consumption and negative sentiments among the population who are becoming more aware of excessive sugar consumption and associated maladies. Coca Cola's declining beverage sales are an indication that sugar is facing headwinds. A stable business for now but without any real prospects for growth at best you get a dividend, at worst your total return is negative because the shares decline further.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Isn't this like behaving like the oil glut we're having? At least I don't own any cheap Coke shares ... :biggrin:


----------



## donald

To be far with coke(product line)
There is more to the future than coca cola classic
Look at the bottle water line
I don't know a single person under 40 who doesn't buy bottle water
It amazes me but it is true
look at 7/11 the next time your in a store
half the space is water/vit water and energy drinks
That is the future Ko stock story imo
Wouldn't count ko shares out for growth


----------



## james4beach

RSI is now under $4 (closed at 3.99) with a dividend yield of 9.02%

Their income is certainly declining. The "nine months ending in June" as per their financial statements is down -43% from last year. That's a huge decline in net income and I'm surprised the share price isn't even lower. The stock is only down -8% from a year ago, adjusted for dividend.

Tough to buy a company with such weak earnings.


----------



## Eder

Trans Pacific Partnership is pretty good news for Rogers. The US will have to allow some sugar imports tariff free to Rogers as they are the only sugar producer in Canada. Looks like 19200 metric tonnes additional. Of course the US is famous for ignoring NAFTA rules so TPP agreement may be just smoke.


----------



## james4beach

RSI has been totally unaffected by the TSX selloff since December. This is very interesting because RSI's yield is over 8% and most high yielding things have been just hammered since December.

What I'm reading into that is that there is no "hot money" in RSI. By that I mean, skittish speculators piling in due to yield chasing or return chasing -- they don't seem to be in RSI. Even the volume has been very normal.

I'm kind of surprised by this, and it's good news. It probably means the nervous speculators were washed out earlier during the earlier price plunge.


----------



## james4beach

I still don't own any, though.

The main reasons I can't buy the stock are: (1) net income is still declining even though natural gas is at multi-year lows and (2) they have a ton of goodwill on their balance sheet, and I have no idea what this represents or how they arrived at that number. It's nearly *half* the assets on their balance sheet so this absolutely requires a better explanation, yet it's not described in the audited financial statements.

The risk with the massive goodwill item on the balance sheet is that if it suddenly gets revised downward, it will have an enormous effect on book value. I'm always wary of companies with large goodwill lines. Typically goodwill would be around 10% of assets. With Rogers it's 42% of assets.

The goodwill line 229,952 has been unchanged since 2006. I find it hard to believe that this line can stay constant for 10 years without any adjustments. It's just such a huge part of their valuation, yet not described anywhere. I don't like this part of the balance sheet.


----------



## al42

They have been buying back shares pretty steady over the last year.
Hopefully they think the share price is under valued.


Jan 20/16 Jan 20/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 11,500 $4.04
Jan 20/16 Jan 19/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 5,500 $4.04
Jan 19/16 Jan 18/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 11,500 $4.05
Jan 18/16 Jan 15/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 11,000 $4.07
Jan 15/16 Jan 14/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 13,600 $4.06
Jan 14/16 Jan 13/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 15,000 $4.08
Jan 13/16 Jan 12/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 11,800 $4.05
Jan 12/16 Jan 11/16 Rogers Sugar Inc Direct Ownership Common Shares 38 - Redemption, retraction, cancellation, repurchase 14,700 $4.08
Jan 5/16 Jan 4/16 Belkin, Alton Stuart Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 1,400 $4.20
Jan 5/16 Jan 4/16 Belkin, Alton Stuart Direct Ownership Common Shares 10 - Acquisition in the public market 162 $4.21 - See more at: https://www.canadianinsider.com/company?menu_tickersearch=RSI | Rogers Sugar#sthash.ivfbaCw4.dpuf

https://www.canadianinsider.com/company?menu_tickersearch=RSI | Rogers Sugar


----------



## yyz

Having a nice little run lately.


----------



## Eder

james4beach said:


> I still don't own any, though.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Well they're up 35% since this post plus a dividend...52 week high today.


----------



## steve41

Hummingbird feeder season.


----------



## Beaver101

^^+^ Good to know just how sweet! Now back to work ... :bee:


----------



## CrazyEights

Would anybody know why RSI has gone up so much? there isn't much news saying otherwise.


----------



## Eder

More tonnes of sugar sold.
Cheaper cost of beets.
3 mill more profit last quarter yr/yr
forward PE of 14 while paying a huge dividend.

Its a sweet stock! (disclaimer....sugar has been shown to contribute to obesity & diabetes as well as volatility to investors...consume & purchase in moderation)


----------



## james4beach

Eder said:


> Well they're up 35% since this post plus a dividend...52 week high today.


Total return since 2016-01-22 is approx 42%. Then again the TSX small cap index (XCS) is up 37% in that period, for context.

If you read the thread you will see I have some concerns based on fundamentals:
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...r-Inc-(RSI-TO)?p=979914&viewfull=1#post979914

I'd be willing to buy the equity, but not until I understand more about what I'm buying and have a better understanding of those issues. I like to know what I'm buying.


----------



## Eder

Not bad for a small value stock...(value is another name for low growth....common characteristics of such stocks include a high dividend yield, low price-to-book ratio and/or low price-to-earnings ratio....different from general small cap) so in context it has been the Donaldson & Biyombo of value,


----------



## Beaver101

Eder said:


> More tonnes of sugar sold.
> Cheaper cost of beets.
> 3 mill more profit last quarter yr/yr
> forward PE of 14 while paying a huge dividend.
> 
> Its a sweet stock! (disclaimer....sugar has been shown to contribute to obesity & diabetes as well as volatility to investors...consume & *purchase in moderation*)


 ... I'm not so sure about the latter as greed is good in America (or Canada in this case) when it comes down to stocks but you do have an excellent disclaimer! :rugby:


----------



## GizelleGizelle

Does anyone know the deatails and terms of the agreement betwen the Rogers Sugar Ins and its maintenance employees in Montreal? Because there was a week lasting strike prior the agreement.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Wouldn't that be inside information? Anyhow, quoting from latest (June 6, 2016) stock news:



> BRIEF-Rogers Sugar reaches deal with workers union
> June 6 (Reuters) - Rogers Sugar Inc :
> 
> * Says bargaining agreement ratified at Lantic Inc's montreal refinery
> 
> * Says all production activities will resume ,expects a return to normal activities as soon as possible
> 
> * Reached a deal with union of Montreal refinery and will be returning to work within next few hours
> 
> Source text for Eikon:
> 
> Further company coverage: (Bengaluru Newsroom)


Now moving along ...


----------



## hollyhunter

RSI.TO has been showing support at 5.12 and resistance at 5.89.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Okay but not sure how the S/R info is relevant to most of the buy, hold and get fat-investors of this stock? :wink:


----------



## GizelleGizelle

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Wouldn't that be inside information? Anyhow, quoting from latest (June 6, 2016) stock news:
> 
> 
> 
> Now moving along ...


Thank you! Appreciate that!


----------



## Eder

Eder said:


> Well they're up 35% since this post plus a dividend...52 week high today.


Well new 52 week high and up another 35% since that post....69% in last 52 weeks...anyone else still believe? I'm still holding lots but not sure what to do here...


----------



## Beaver101

^ Yes, glad to be a believer ... and now for some profits taking. :cupcake:


----------



## Eder

You made up my mind...sold all of it. Don't have a spot to invest the cash yet but I think its best to be opportunistic with thinly traded stocks like Rogers Sugar.


----------



## Beaver101

I sold only a third:torn: as I'm still a believer in this stock and sugar - going to be around for a loooonggg time and the quarterly dividends (with periodic increases) are both nice. Now what are you planning to replace the winfall with? :smiley_simmons:


----------



## CrazyEights

Also held this for a long time, and finally out of the Red and into the GReen. Looking to take this opportunity to get it off the portfolio.


----------



## Just a Guy

I've owned this for a long time...got in cheap, watched it roller coaster around over the years, while collecting the dividend. I don't see sugar going away, and I don't see anything better to put my money into, certainly don't want to give the government any of my capital gains, plus I don't like to sell my stuff...just not in my personality, guess I'll just keep holding.

Nice to see activity on this thread though, I rarely look at my holding's performance. I can't see anything wiping out the sugar industry, so I rarely look...plus, it's also not in my personality.


----------



## Eder

Beaver101 said:


> I sold only a third:torn: as I'm still a believer in this stock and sugar - going to be around for a loooonggg time and the quarterly dividends (with periodic increases) are both nice. Now what are you planning to replace the winfall with? :smiley_simmons:


I was thinking more lumber stock (probably more Western Forest Products) as they've been anemic with the prospect of higher tariffs. I agree that Canadian sugar is a protected industry but I hate watching (and owning)cyclical stocks hitting 52 week highs. The dividend was nice but the odd special dividends were especially nice.


----------



## Beaver101

^ I too own and agree on the imminent Trumping threat of higher tariffs in that industry but the nice thing about WEF is it's DRIPpable (set and forget), another nice little stock. As an alternative to RSI, have you considered TPK whose price is trending down ... and likely will hit high again ... similar coaster ride.


----------



## Beaver101

Just a Guy said:


> I've owned this for a long time...got in cheap, watched it roller coaster around over the years, while collecting the dividend. I don't see sugar going away, and I don't see anything better to put my money into, certainly don't want to give the government any of my capital gains, plus I don't like to sell my stuff...just not in my personality, guess I'll just keep holding.
> 
> Nice to see activity on this thread though, I rarely look at my holding's performance. I can't see anything wiping out the sugar industry, so I rarely look...plus, *it's also not in my personality*.


 .. not surprised with a RE lord. :biggrin:


----------



## Eder

Ten Peaks Coffee I know nothing about and don't really get why decaffeinating green coffee beans can become such a highly valued business. Of course I missed buying Starbucks back in the day as I didn't get their business model either.

I am trying to cut down the number of equities I need to keep track of and that was another reason to ship all my Rogers out the door.


----------



## CrazyEights

Just a Guy said:


> I've owned this for a long time...got in cheap, watched it roller coaster around over the years, while collecting the dividend. I don't see sugar going away, and I don't see anything better to put my money into, certainly don't want to give the government any of my capital gains, plus I don't like to sell my stuff...just not in my personality, guess I'll just keep holding.
> 
> Nice to see activity on this thread though, I rarely look at my holding's performance. I can't see anything wiping out the sugar industry, so I rarely look...plus, it's also not in my personality.



Fair enough, however with new trends leading to healthier living, etc etc, the demand for it could reduce. But when your up about 30-40%, mind as well take the opportunity to exit.


----------



## Just a Guy

As a cook, I can't stand the taste of the alternatives. Healthier living is about moderation, not chemical alternatives. People have tried to replace sugar many times in the past, but demand and usage is higher today than in the past.

My crystal ball doesn't work any better than anyone else's, but I've got no plans to stop using sugar, the trend seems to support me, so I'll continue to hold. Besides, the "average" person isn't really into healthier living, they're into processed foods...rich in salt and sugar.


----------



## Eder

Beaver101 said:


> . Now what are you planning to replace the winfall with? :smiley_simmons:


I put it all into Tricon Capital Group, I need a bit more real estate exposure, particularly to the USA economy so this seems like a reasonable fit.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Own some of that already too ... looking for an industrial REIT to buy and hold.


----------



## james4beach

RSI (including dividends) is lower than where it was in 2016, so this stock has been going nowhere for 2 years now. What are people's current thoughts?


----------



## doctrine

Well it was as low as $4 in 2016 so it's doing well depending on which month you use. In any case, RSI is a company that depends on government tariffs on imported sugar to survive. They also got into maple syrup, which is a commodity business under pressure from supply growth and margin compression. I'm not sure the reason to buy. They pay out virtually all their earnings so there is not much reinvestment, thus the long term lack of capital appreciation.


----------



## Beaver101

Still holding ... getting close to a decade mark. Now back to :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:


----------



## agent99

doctrine said:


> Well it was as low as $4 in 2016 so it's doing well depending on which month you use. *In any case, RSI is a company that depends on government tariffs on imported sugar to survive. *They also got into maple syrup, which is a commodity business under pressure from supply growth and margin compression. I'm not sure the reason to buy. They pay out virtually all their earnings so there is not much reinvestment, thus the long term lack of capital appreciation.


Do tariffs only apply to refined sugar? 

Lantic/Rogers produce most of their refined sugar products from raw cane sugar. Presumably that is 100% imported from tropical countries?

In looking for answer, found this site. It confirms that raw sugar comes in duty free. It also says that Canadian tariffs on sugar products are amongst lowest in world. 

https://sugar.ca/International-Trade/Canada-s-sugar-policy.aspx 

Tariff on refined products is 5-8%. Refined products from USA came in duty free under NAFTA it seems. Yet US applies high duties to Canadian sugar products entering USA. There have been some changes in USCMA, but they don't seem to significant.
https://farmtario.com/news/some-sweetness-found-in-bitter-usmca-deal/

Looks like Rogers could stand to have a lot more help.


----------

