# Restaurant takeout during COVID



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

I've just bought a takeout from a restaurant as dining in is prohibited again in my city.

It's a very fancy restaurant, the kind of restaurant you pay more than $100 for two people.

The online takeout schedule was every 15 minutes. When I arrived, I was surprised to notice there were about 7 other cars waiting for their takeout and we all got served in 5 minutes as other cars came by for their takeout.

The COVID situation may be very hard for most restaurants, but from my experience of that specific restaurant, they may actually make even more money, no? Since we takeout, there's no limit of capacity for the restaurant. Its limit is now only driven by its ability to deliver.

Any thoughts?


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

MrBlackhill said:


> The COVID situation may be very hard for some restaurants, but from my experience of that restaurant, they may actually make even more money, no? Since we takeout, there's no limit of capacity for the restaurant. Its limit is now only driven by its ability to deliver.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Yeah, I think some restaurants will handle the transition to takeout better than others for sure, in modifying their menus and/or packaging up their food. A couple of places we drive by can't keep up with the takeout and always have a throng of people waiting for their orders. But I think it's way more the exception than the rule. Some dishes/cooking techniques don't taste great after even 10-15 minutes of transport. Restaurants in the downtown core are likely suffering from the lack of office traffic. I also think it's going to be a tougher slog for restaurants that rely on other factors beyond food quality like alcohol sales and experience/service/presentation. And of course, the waitstaff get hit the hardest.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

milhouse said:


> Yeah, I think some restaurants will handle the transition to takeout better than others for sure, in modifying their menus and/or packaging up their food. A couple of places we drive by can't keep up with the takeout and always have a throng of people waiting for their orders. But I think it's way more the exception than the rule. Some dishes/cooking techniques don't taste great after even 10-15 minutes of transport. Restaurants in the downtown core are likely suffering from the lack of office traffic. I also think it's going to be a tougher slog for restaurants that rely on other factors beyond food quality like alcohol sales and experience/service/presentation. And of course, the waitstaff get hit the hardest.


You are right. Only a few exceptions will be able to get through it.

Me and my spouse were thinking of making "donations" to local places we use to go regularly. We were thinking that if people can continue encouraging their favorite local places, hopefully they wouldn't disappear due to this COVID situation.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The big problem is that such restaurants make most of their profit on liquor and wine sales. Takeout just keeps the lights on.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

milhouse said:


> restaurants that rely on other factors beyond food quality like alcohol sales and experience/service/presentation.





kcowan said:


> The big problem is that such restaurants make most of their profit on liquor and wine sales. Takeout just keeps the lights on.


Very good point. When I went for the takeout, I was actually telling myself that I had the advantage to buy great food while saving on alcohol. But that's true, if I'm saving on alcohol, that means they're losing on alcohol, and losing big.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> I've just bought a takeout from a restaurant as dining in is prohibited again in my city.
> 
> It's a very fancy restaurant, the kind of restaurant you pay more than $100 for two people.
> 
> ...


 ... do (the takeouts) or die.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Look at what they save by keeping the dining areas closed, in not having waiters, waitresses, bus boys, cleaners, etc.
I should think if they sell as many meals they make the same money or more.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

One restaurant on the news two nights ago, says that operating with just takeout led to 90% less revenue. From I know they operate on thin margins and most fail, even during normal times. take out and winter are gonna kill many more restaurants and bars.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Still need to pay the cooks/chefs, rent, taxes (all forms) plus take-out materials ain't free either. Yet they lose that portion of dine-in revenue that would have cover these expenses. This is provided that they still have insurance coverage ... ie out of business if no insurance.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

kcowan said:


> The big problem is that such restaurants make most of their profit on liquor and wine sales. Takeout just keeps the lights on.


Some years back, when I worked as an auditor with a public accounting firm, we had the audit for an outfit called Versafoods. Among other things, it operated a restaurant then called the 54th Dining Room on the 54th floor of the TD tower in Toronto. Also on the 54th floor was the Safari Lounge, also operated by Versa. The Safari was a bar and made its money pouring drinks. Both operated on an accounting system that divided the year into 13 periods. The dining room lost money in almost every period, even though it was selling alcohol ancillary to meals. The bar, on the other hand, made a decent profit every period. It supported the dining room.

What I observed about the profitability of bars and restaurants then would not be unusual today I don't suppose. So I agree with kcowan that heavy reliance on take-out is not likely to keep many operations afloat for long. Even though there may be some savings in terms of staff needed to run the place, the loss of alcohol sales will still lead to insolvency for many.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Look at what they save by keeping the dining areas closed, in not having waiters, waitresses, bus boys, cleaners, etc.
> I should think if they sell as many meals they make the same money or more.


Booze sales are a huge part of most restaurant's profits.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The social apps for delivery like Skip the Dishes also take a big cut out of the sales.

I order pickup takeout from a friend who owns a Chinese restaurant so she can save the additional cost.

Their dining room is open but empty of customers. They lost all their big reception business. Most people still aren't dining in large gatherings.

They are busy for 2 hours a night and that is it, so they open late and close early.

Fortunately for them it is a family run business and they have owned the restaurant and property for decades.

They will likely survive but it is a different business now.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

In my opinion if you use Skip the Dishes you might as well skip the whole thing. You are probably not doing the restaurant any favours. They take around 30% when last I heard. No restaurant has 30% profit margins. They would be lucky to have 15% when the restaurant is full. They do tend to raise their Skip the Dshes prices a bit compared to the regular menu, but still the take by these services is way too high.

In my opinion, I pay the prices these restaurants wanted for the enjoyment of dining in the restaurant. The going out experience. Once you take that away, and Covid-19 certainly did for me, their prices are just too high. As for paying them as a donation. That is a nice gesture but certainly not sustainable, so I pass on that. Keep in mind that 10 years from now, I have no doubt we will have the same number of restaurants and bars, in our communities, most in the same places we have now, probably selling the same stuff we are offered now. Unfortuneately many of the bar and restaurant owners will be different, many of which buying their new business from the banks after they foreclosed on the current owners. Someone else probably got their house. Poor guys.

Certainly my sympathies go out to these hard working business owners but my money is unlikely to save them. Their problem is just too big.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> In my opinion if you use Skip the Dishes you might as well skip the whole thing. You are probably not doing the restaurant any favours. They take around 30% when last I heard. No restaurant has 30% profit margins. They would be lucky to have 15% when the restaurant is full. They do tend to raise their Skip the Dshes prices a bit compared to the regular menu, but still the take by these services is way too high.
> 
> In my opinion, I pay the prices these restaurants wanted for the enjoyment of dining in the restaurant. The going out experience. Once you take that away, and Covid-19 certainly did for me, their prices are just too high. As for paying them as a donation. That is a nice gesture but certainly not sustainable, so I pass on that. Keep in mind that 10 years from now, I have no doubt we will have the same number of restaurants and bars, in our communities, most in the same places we have now, probably selling the same stuff we are offered now. Unfortuneately many of the bar and restaurant owners will be different, many of which buying their new business from the banks after they foreclosed on the current owners. Someone else probably got their house. Poor guys.
> 
> Certainly my sympathies go out to these hard working business owners but my money is unlikely to save them. Their problem is just too big.


I've heard Skip the Dishes doesn't offer refunds, even if they don't deliver the food.
When you deal with scammers, you're going to get screwed.

If the restaurant accepts a deal where they lose money on every sale, that's on them.
Doordash only charges 10%.

Lots of pizza places charge $5 or so for delivery, which IMO is worth it.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

In ON, restaurants are allowed to sell liquor with takeout; a recent change I believe.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ A change made due to the pandemic with a potential to be permanent. This is great convenience for customers who like to complement their meals with liquor.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don't think it amounts to the same thing though. Who orders a glass of wine for takeout ?

The big hurt for restaurants are big gatherings like Mothers Day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years Eve....business meetings, weddings, banquets, etc.

Today is Thanksgiving and our son and his family live a half block away. We aren't getting together for dinner this year. 

So, the wife went to work today and will eat her Thanksgiving dinner there at the senior home. I will eat a turkey sandwich and soup later............LOL.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

I agree with @sags Why would I buy liquor from the restaurant for takeout when I can just go to the liquor store? My only reason would be to encourage the restaurant. Or maybe the restaurant has a private import? But for smaller restaurants, it's hard to see how they would manage to sell liquor for takeout, no?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

[


sags said:


> Today is Thanksgiving and our son and his family live a half block away. We aren't getting together for dinner this year.
> 
> So, the wife went to work today and will eat her Thanksgiving dinner there at the senior home. I will eat a turkey sandwich and soup later............LOL.


and because of that type of behavior, everyone you mentioned has a better chance of being healthy and alive for all those thanksgiving dinners the future will offer. A very cheap price to pay.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

[QUOTE="MrMatt, post: 2105756, member: 42812"

If the restaurant accepts a deal where they lose money on every sale, that's on them.

[/QUOTE]

In these cases the restaurants believe they don't have much choice. If they are not on the platform their customers get irritated and buy from the competitor. I suspect the restaurant losing money hopes that this "skip the dishes" customer enjoys the food so much that they come into the restaurant some other time, where maybe the owner can make a profit.

This situation of losing money is not specific to skip the dishes. The restaurant would also prefer you not use your cash back credit card that might cost them up to 7% of the revenue to VISA, as well. Again, they hope to not annoy the customer and perhaps at some point in the future they can figure out a way to pay these exorbitant amounts and still make a profit.

Knowing these things, if one truly wants to help the restaurant then one should be aware of these things and avoid using them. Assuming the restaurant owner controls all this stuff is incorrect. The people spending the money are the only ones with that type of control.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> and because of that type of behavior, everyone you mentioned has a better chance of being healthy and alive for all those thanksgiving dinners the future will offer. A very cheap price to pay.


We had Thanksgiving dinner with about 10 people yesterday. We refuse to live in isolation for a virus that has a survival rate similar or less than the flu for healthy people under 60.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> We had Thanksgiving dinner with about 10 people yesterday. We refuse to live in isolation for a virus that has a survival rate similar or less than the flu for healthy people under 60.


and FU to everyone else who is older.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> We had Thanksgiving dinner with about 10 people yesterday. We refuse to live in isolation for a virus that has a survival rate similar or less than the flu for healthy people under 60.


30% of the total hospitalised cases are below 60 and 40% of the total cases admitted to ICU are below 60, all taking places at the hospital that other people need.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> In these cases the restaurants believe they don't have much choice. If they are not on the platform their customers get irritated and buy from the competitor. I suspect the restaurant losing money hopes that this "skip the dishes" customer enjoys the food so much that they come into the restaurant some other time, where maybe the owner can make a profit.
> 
> This situation of losing money is not specific to skip the dishes. The restaurant would also prefer you not use your cash back credit card that might cost them up to 7% of the revenue to VISA, as well. Again, they hope to not annoy the customer and perhaps at some point in the future they can figure out a way to pay these exorbitant amounts and still make a profit.
> 
> Knowing these things, if one truly wants to help the restaurant then one should be aware of these things and avoid using them. Assuming the restaurant owner controls all this stuff is incorrect. The people spending the money are the only ones with that type of control.


Well I'm not in the restaurant business because it's too hard.
Most restaurants (and new businesses) fail in a few years. It is their job to ensure they're profitable.

The local pizza place only sells individual slices at certain times on certain days, the corner Chinese place is pickup only. It's their job to ensure that what they offer makes sense for their business.
If they're constantly making bad business decisions, they shouldn't be running the business that way. Better they switch to something else, and let sustainable businesses take over, rather than win the race to the bottom.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> 30% of the total hospitalised cases are below 60 and 40% of the total cases admitted to ICU are below 60, all taking places at the hospital that other people need.


Those people over 60 who slashed resident positions and health care spending, resulting in the capacity shortages we have now?
Maybe they should have been thinking of who was going to take care of them when they started killing the training pipeline decades ago.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> Well I'm not in the restaurant business because it's too hard.
> Most restaurants (and new businesses) fail in a few years. It is their job to ensure they're profitable.
> 
> The local pizza place only sells individual slices at certain times on certain days, the corner Chinese place is pickup only. It's their job to ensure that what they offer makes sense for their business.
> If they're constantly making bad business decisions, they shouldn't be running the business that way. Better they switch to something else, and let sustainable businesses take over, rather than win the race to the bottom.


Sure, but this thread got started by someone talking about helping out Restaurants and all I wanted to point out is that one can help them a lot better by calling them directly to see if they would prefer another method of delivery then using these delivery apps that are incredibly costly to the businesses.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> and FU to everyone else who is older.


No, older and vulnerable people can isolate. There is no need to quarantine healthy low risk people.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> Sure, but this thread got started by someone talking about helping out Restaurants and all I wanted to point out is that one can help them a lot better by calling them directly to see if they would prefer another method of delivery then using these delivery apps that are incredibly costly to the businesses.


Well I've really got a hunger for some meat, and the local BBQ place is awesome.
They've got the classic 1970/80's decor, with those same dated plastic water glasses.

They don't deal with all those apps and stuff. Just good food. Even when I ate in, their carry out was insane.

I might pick that up for dinner later this week.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> No, older and vulnerable people can isolate. There is no need to quarantine healthy low risk people.


Fair enough. Just as long as you are willing to put a mask over your faces when you go into establishments where both ages are forced to go, like retail stores and many other buildings, you can eat dinner with anyone you want, as far as I am concerned.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> Fair enough. Just as long as you are willing to put a mask over your faces when you go into establishments where both ages are forced to go, like retail stores and many other buildings, you can eat dinner with anyone you want, as far as I am concerned.


Yes, I wear a mask when it's required.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> I've just bought a takeout from a restaurant as dining in is prohibited again in my city.
> 
> It's a very fancy restaurant, the kind of restaurant you pay more than $100 for two people.
> 
> ...


It would be an exception to make more money with take out. They are still paying overheads such as rent and utilities. Wait staff are about the only savings and maybe a reduction in kitchen staff (depending on the set up) Even with busy take out, they are probably not turning around as many tables (if a car is equal to a table). I will guess that you went in at a busy time, it will probably be dead. People wait for a table reservation if the place is good enough, they will not wait for take out into the evening. There are increase costs for the extra packaging a pre cautions for COVID. I was calculating the extra cost for the fancy little packaging and it added few dollars to my order. 

Alcohol, drinks and desserts are the highest margin and bring in most of the profit. These are for the most part being passed over. Getting take out will help pay the overheads, but that's about it. That also assumes the restaurant has figured out how to redo their menus to reduce waste. 



MrBlackhill said:


> You are right. Only a few exceptions will be able to get through it.
> 
> Me and my spouse were thinking of making "donations" to local places we use to go regularly. We were thinking that if people can continue encouraging their favorite local places, hopefully they wouldn't disappear due to this COVID situation.


We frequent our favorite places often for take out. We try to leave a huge tip, give them cash (if they will take it) and tell give them orders to try and reduce all the packaging and trays. 



Rusty O'Toole said:


> Look at what they save by keeping the dining areas closed, in not having waiters, waitresses, bus boys, cleaners, etc.
> I should think if they sell as many meals they make the same money or more.


Definitely not, as I said above the wait staff are reduced but you still have cleaning, kitchen staff and at least one person in the front. The orders are smaller (no booze, drinks or desserts), they are mostly likely having less customer in the course of the day, and additional packaging expenses.



OptsyEagle said:


> Sure, but this thread got started by someone talking about helping out Restaurants and all I wanted to point out is that one can help them a lot better by calling them directly to see if they would prefer another method of delivery then using these delivery apps that are incredibly costly to the businesses.


I always call and ask how they would like to take our order. Never have we had them ask us to use Skip or one of the other delivery places.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It was surprising pre-COVID how busy restaurants were on a typical Friday or Saturday night. They were all jam packed.

It didn't seem to matter how many new restaurants opened, but mostly it was big chains like East Side Marios or Montanas or similar.

The restaurants big enough have people wait in the "bar area" until a table becomes available or for pickup. (I delivered for ESM for a couple of months)

A party of six........a couple drinks each while waiting and a couple more while dining. The bill tally adds up in a hurry.

I haven't been in a bar for years but they tell me they pay $7 a beer in some places. I remember paying $0.35 cents for a glass of draft beer.

When this COVID is over we gotta get out more. I am still living in the 1970s price era.......LOL.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Dinner and a movie has been replaced with Takeout and Netflix.

Watched some hilarious Youtube videos of a guy who walked around a mall talking to people in that "movie trailer" voice.

It reminded me of how long it has been since I heard that in a theatre.

I wish Netflix and Amazon Prime did a similar thing to preview movies. It would feel more like an evening "out".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> I agree with @sags Why would I buy liquor from the restaurant for takeout when I can just go to the liquor store? My only reason would be to encourage the restaurant. Or maybe the restaurant has a private import? But for smaller restaurants, it's hard to see how they would manage to sell liquor for takeout, no?


 ... for a one-stop convenience. Not expecting you to buy a bottle of Johnny Walker with that Red Lobster or Swiss Chalet or whatever you fancy meal.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Those people over 60 who slashed resident positions and health care spending, resulting in the capacity shortages we have now?
> Maybe they should have been thinking of who was going to take care of them when they started killing the training pipeline decades ago.


The people who made those decisions will never suffer from them because they are in the upper echelons of government. Remember when Chretien had a heart problem? Remember how long he had to wait to see a specialist? Not even 5 minutes. Have you ever gotten to see a doctor that fast, for anything? You can be sure the big shots will always have the best medical care, even if the rest of us are dying in hospital corridors.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The people who made those decisions will never suffer from them because they are in the upper echelons of government. Remember when Chretien had a heart problem? Remember how long he had to wait to see a specialist? Not even 5 minutes. Have you ever gotten to see a doctor that fast, for anything? You can be sure the big shots will always have the best medical care, even if the rest of us are dying in hospital corridors.


I know 2 people in the last year who have experienced chest pains in the last year. Both of them were taken to the hospital by ambulance and seen immediately by a doctor. Not even 5 minutes.

I ruptured my Achilles tendon in 2009 on a Thursday, went to a sport's clinic on Friday, and underwent surgery on the following Monday.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> I know 2 people in the last year who have experienced chest pains in the last year. Both of them were taken to the hospital by ambulance and seen immediately by a doctor. Not even 5 minutes.
> 
> I ruptured my Achilles tendon in 2009 on a Thursday, went to a sport's clinic on Friday, and underwent surgery on the following Monday.


My father waited over a year for a hip surgery.
To be even sketchier, the specialist didn't even accept the referal for over 10 months, then he accepted it, and got the surgery done within a few months.
So the official "wait time" at the surgeon was very short, even though the actual problem existed.

Quality and out of pocket expenses were good, but the wait times are horrible.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> My father waited over a year for a hip surgery.
> To be even sketchier, the specialist didn't even accept the referal for over 10 months, then he accepted it, and got the surgery done within a few months.
> So the official "wait time" at the surgeon was very short, even though the actual problem existed.
> 
> Quality and out of pocket expenses were good, but the wait times are horrible.


I was responding to the comment about heart problems, but it is true that knee and hip surgeries have waiting lists...I waited 6 months for ACL surgery. But I had a desk job and could walk around comfortably so I wasn't a priority. My Achilles rupture was more serious and they operated immediately. But a friend only waited a week or so for knee surgery because he was a roofer and obviously needed a healthy leg to work.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> I know 2 people in the last year who have experienced chest pains in the last year. Both of them were taken to the hospital by ambulance and seen immediately by a doctor. Not even 5 minutes.
> 
> I ruptured my Achilles tendon in 2009 on a Thursday, went to a sport's clinic on Friday, and underwent surgery on the following Monday.


That sure doesn't sound like my experience. Doctors and hospitals must be a lot different where you are.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

The government & order followers not Covid did the damage. Now they are going to turn the knifes in the back & ban plastics that is useful for takeout


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

:) lonewolf said:


> The government & order followers not Covid did the damage. Now they are going to turn the knifes in the back & ban plastics that is useful for takeout


 ... you claim 1. you're not a sheeple, 2. spits into your fingers to open plastic bags, and 3. yet still can't figure out alternatives to the plastics ban? I digress ...


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Beaver101 said:


> ... you claim 1. you're not a sheeple, 2. spits into your fingers to open plastic bags, and 3. yet still can't figure out alternatives to the plastics ban? I digress ...


Actually i wet my fingers from the spray that is put on the produce. Oil is used for the making of plastics which is why they want plastics banned to further kill the oil industry.


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