# Aren't we too responsible?



## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Here we are all talking about saving the most we can, living well below our means, making sure that we don't outlive our money, etc. Are we leaving too much money behind after we die? Are we sacrificing ourselves so that some loser relatives will inherit our hard earned money and blow them away mindlessly?

My sister and her husband in their mid 60's have 2 houses paid for, big savings accounts, 2 cars and he is talking about slashing his monthly expenses of $2,300. What is he thinking?

This is a guy who has been saving all his life, working hard everyday but shouldn't he be enjoying the fruit of his labour by now? FYI, they have no kids.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

I know of three people just like that it is an illness just like any other.
The idea of spending a dollar really scares them, logic is lost, they are fear driven. Many would look at them and say wow nothing wrong with that but the problem is deep.

I know a guy with three houses paid for worked for 45 years gets a good pension and the idea of taking a vacation or buying a new car really worries him. He was never married no kids but any talk of having a good time taking a nice vacation really bothers him.

Last time he came to my house all he did was say I don't have that or this must be nice to be able to buy that.
I pointed out to him that he is worth 5 million dollars his pension is the same as mine and he is in his mid seventies.
He drives cars till they fall apart one every 15 years and when he does buy another it must be the very best sale price.

Some would say the reason he has what he does is just because of that attitude for saving. Winter vacation he can't afford it, new tires they cost money, if there is any chance he can pay 20.00 instead of 25.00 that means everything.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Live to save or save to live.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Successful people of the type being described here generally got that way because of their good money management and frugality skills. Besides, proper money management isn't like a race with a finish line. It's an ongoing activity, much like the wind, that needs to done fairly regularly. People who were good managers their entire lives are not going to simply say "Yippee we've reached the finish line, let's stop managing our money properly and spend like drunken sailors".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

For these folks, I would say "money isn't everything and life is too short" but again it would be hard for them to get out of this mentality/habit/lifestyle if they have been through money hardships in their early life (eg. depression or world wars era).


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## RoR (Jan 18, 2012)

Maybe he gets more enjoyment from seeing what he can save. If you can live on less than 2300/month, then why not? 

And you never know what kind of income you will need when you get old. I've seen half a million budgeted out to not last more than 6-7 years cause someone refused to move to a retirement home and needed round the clock live in care. With house modifications to accomodate. She only lived 3 years like that, the family was worried. 

We go on vacations, but I get more of a kick when I can add to my mortgage. I'd like to frame my year end mortgage statement that shows how much extra we added and how little interest we paid.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree that hoarding cash for no purpose is somewhat pathological. Even if you don't want to consume it personally, why not do some philanthropy?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think it's def fear but shaped by early circumstances(everybody has a money blueprint)if you weave a habit long enough that habit will run you instead of you running it,ive heard the most important thing with regards to money is making sure you control it.I can totally see how someone could let fear take hold,if you carry a portfolio you could expierence a couple ugly bear markets that will "burn" in your mind always knowing a black swan could hit.It's the same concept of say a person with a eating disorder-when they look in the mirror they see a "fat" person staring back,even if they weight 100lb and to the rest of the world "we" see a person that is "sick".The guy with 5 million truly believes he is "poor".

I've seen this in business,i know a friends father who owns a multi-million dollar business and he still gets up every day and goes to work(and there is absoultly no reason for it)he is in his 60's,he had to toil so hard in the begining and it took along time for life to finally yield to his efforts....he can't shut it off...in his mind he is still that struggling 30 yr old trying to make a "go" human physc is amazing-it's sad thou but understandable.It also does'nt help imo that every time you glace @ the globe some finiancial writer is ''telling you"you need 2 million along with the article beside it saying the world is going to end!The media.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

Why on earth would people think it's pathological not to spend money on things we neither need nor want? My daughters used to lecture me about spending my money and not feeling I should save it for them. I told them that I have everything I need and when there's something I want, I go ahead and buy it. But I said, "Surely you're not suggesting that I spend my money just for the sake of spending it?" and they agreed they were not.

When I was working, it was important to me to ensure that I would have enough money to live a worry-free retirement, and I've succeeded in doing that. Now I'm enjoying the sense of security that planning has given me, and there's nothing makes me happier than to know there will be some left over for my daughters and their families.


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## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

I guess it all boils down to life style.

If one has been financially responsible all his/her life, one is not likely to change these lifelong aquired habits just because one can do so.
The same of course, holds true the other way around.

I can't count the times some of my biker friends have made fun of me for riding my trusty old 2001 Honda Shadow motorcycle with 140 000 kms on the clock. It is as shiny as it was the day it was built and works just as well.

They keep saying why don't you buy yourself a new Harley and live it up a little.

I have absolutely no desire to do so, even though I could certainly afford it and pay for it in cash. More importantly, I'd even have my wife's blessing 

My Honda Shadow gets me everywhere I want to go, keeps up with any other bike and is all I want and need.

As long as it runs well, I'm happy. I never bought stuff just for the sake of having something new, if the old is still serviceable and suits my purpose.

But that's just me !


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Like my buddy says to his grown kids.......I got mine........go get yours.

If they can't save their own............they would soon spend yours.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

My parents have always lived a very frugal life. They worked very hard to build a middle class life for themselves, my sister, and me. My sister and I are both married and have our own families, so our parents are free to do whatever they choose, but they choose to not splurge on anything. They're not cheap by any means (in fact, they are VERY generous), so I suppose the easiest way to describe it is that they live a very simple life. They may go on one vacation a year, and they just bought a basic Toyota Camry to replace their aging car. They may go out to eat a few times a week. Etc.

I guess my sister and I will eventually inherit what they have, but unless something catastrophic happens, neither of us will need it. I suppose things will just go full circle as we would simply just bank it and save it for each of our retirements and do the same thing with our own kids.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Better too be too responsible, than not responsible enough.

*SW20 MR2*
Love the car.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Nothing wrong with saving or passing the money on.
If someone tells you they can't afford to buy something or take a vacation and you know they have plenty of money then the issue is deeper.
Deciding to spend 25,000.00 for a car instead of 40,000.00 I consider to be just a personal choice same for taking a vacation, buying furniture.

If someone with plenty tells me they can't do what I'm doing I do take notice.
Where did they get this idea from, must be an emotional attachment to money.

I'm just logical.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

^ I tell people everyday I can't afford a coffee/bagel. 

I can afford it on a financial level, but not on a mental level.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I believe in this analogy. There are spenders and there are savers and when the question is asked; who is happier?, I respond like this.

If a person really, really wanted something and they had the money to buy it, is it not safe to say that they would buy it? Therefore, if they do not buy it, is it also also safe to say that they must currently have everything they want. Contrast that to the low probability that the spender bought the last thing they wanted when they spent their last dollar and you get to my point.

The saver must be happier because they must have pretty much everything they want, where as the spender goes through out life dreaming up more things that they want, but currently cannot have.

Spenders rarely factor in the enjoyment of the financial security that simply having money provides, whereas to the saver, this is probably the most important feature about money.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

OptsyEagle said:


> who is happier?, I respond like this.
> 
> If a person really, really wanted something and they had the money to buy it, is it not safe to say that they would buy it? *Therefore, if they do not buy it, is it also also safe to say that they must currently have everything they want. *
> 
> The saver must be happier because they must have pretty much everything they want, where as the spender goes through out life dreaming up more things that they want, but currently cannot have.


I disagree. The spender is happier because they feel like money is not a responsibility or a burden. They spend it freely, almost ignorant-like.

The reason I don't buy the bagel, the coffee, the new item (whatever it may be) is exactly because I _don't_ have everything I want. Throw me $500k, and then we can start talking about buying coffee and bagels. 

If I had everything I wanted, there would be no reason to save. I would find a way to blow the money (provided my finances are taken care of completely, of course).


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## GreenAvenue (Dec 28, 2011)

I don't understand that reasoning. Some people care and depend on Facebook every second of the day and other don't. Some people care about having a lot of money and some don't. 
I would say: leave them alone, it's their money, it's their business. Just respect that.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think at first a saver gets that security feeling and a sense of "control" that a spender would never "feel"(and that feeling is addictive maybe?)The problem is both can swing too far.
-the spender is always looking for that "high" buying things can give and is constantly never satisfied(new iphone's,flat screens,clothes ect-never ending cycle-live for today-I'm a jones,long as i can just make mth payments)
-The saver is always looking for more "comfort"if saving 500 a mth is doable you want to step it up to 600 a mth a so on(takes more savings to feel)Both chase a never ending entity.There is no "finish" line aka i'll be happy if i have 500k,you get there and then you decide you wont be happy till 750k.....always a moving target.I think balance is key....might be dead wrong in my thoughts though.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

I see my savings as having bought my freedom from working, so the money was and is "spent" in the sense that it is used like a lifetime annuity, albeit one that is reversible. I can't think of any material good I would want badly enough to come out of retirement for. 

hboy43


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> ^ I tell people everyday I can't afford a coffee/bagel.
> 
> I can afford it on a financial level, but not on a mental level.





KaeJS said:


> I disagree. The spender is happier because they feel like money is not a responsibility or a burden. They spend it freely, almost ignorant-like.
> 
> The reason I don't buy the bagel, the coffee, the new item (whatever it may be) is exactly because I _don't_ have everything I want. Throw me $500k, and then we can start talking about buying coffee and bagels.
> 
> If I had everything I wanted, there would be no reason to save. I would find a way to blow the money (provided my finances are taken care of completely, of course).


As a former spender, and a more of a balanced on now. I remember one of the books I read in finance was about changing ones attitude about money. The advice was essentially to be happy with what you have, which we all know, but it gave a really interesting way of doing it. It advised to change the wording and the way we think. Instead of saying'I can't afford something, or I don have the. Money, or I wish I could have that' etc. replace it with 'I am choosing not to buy that, or I choose to spend my money on something else' etc. 

It seems to be a little hokey but it works and makes sense. In the fist statements, or the negative ones. They states sound like one is a victim or has no control of there situation or they are being cheap. It comes off as negative and people wan to change that 'negativity'. The person saying may become unhappy about the sacrifices they make, or feel deprived or resentful that it seems that everyone around them seems to be able to afford it, or some other negative thinking. They may become unhappy, or just start acting like everyone else. For those who are hearing that a person say they can't afford it, they want to convince them why they can't, or think they are being cheap or start making judgements on that person spending.

In the positive phasing, it's very empowering. To say that you are not spending not because you can't but rather choose not to. This implies control not that something else is controlling your spending. It implies that's you have made a conscious decision to do something, which very few people will try to talk you out of it. It also leads to some very interesting discussions.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

PA, although I don't follow it (and should make a conscious effort to try and do so in the future), I agree with absolutely everything you have said.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> 1. The spender is happier because they feel like money is not a responsibility or a burden.
> 
> 2. They spend it freely, almost ignorant-like.
> 
> ...


1. I agree partially, but keep in mind that for some, who spend even when they can't afford it, it is temporary happiness/irresponsible escapism. 

For the first time ever, I saw part of the show 'Til Debt Do Us Part' yesterday and OMG, what a waste of my time! I could not believe what I was hearing and these responsible [NOT] folks get rewarded with $5K and a vacation.  

Sorry KaeJS, you don't qualify for the show, so don't even try. 

I could not believe the woman was a math teacher [if I remember the subject correctly] saying that she had not realized that ooops, they were spending $300/month in banking fees; $1,200/month in food; oh, she & hubby thought it was those condo. mortgage fees that had the newly married couple [with no kids] in huge debt. Her hobby? You guessed it, shopping clothes. SIGH. The husband held 3 jobs, so don't you feel sorry that with 4 jobs, they were still spending more than they made? 

The t.v. host is absolutely right when she says: "Over the years I’ve found that an astonishing number of smart, competent women are relinquishing financial control. It’s Your Money is designed to inspire and inform you to take charge of your money and your life, and come to terms with what you have to do to get to where you want to be." [I'll add men too, to make it fair]. 

2. Indeed. 

3. If you never change your attitude, you'll be able to retire without much difficulty at 67. 

4. You could always become a future altruistic giver.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Sorry KaeJS, you don't qualify for the show, so don't even try.
> 
> The husband held 3 jobs, so don't you feel sorry that with 4 jobs, they were still spending more than they made?


I know. I wish I qualified, though. $5k would be nice. 

I always see one person in the relationship ruining it. Man, or woman. It's both. I never understand why these people stay with their partner. I've seen ones where the man works all the time and the woman does jack all and spends it. Then I've seen ones where the woman works and has a high paying job and the man sits at home and blows it on food.

I don't get it?

There's no way I'd ever let my partner go shopping with my money while I'm at work during the day??? 

I've probably watched about 10 episodes. I have to say, the people on that show really make me angry. I wouldn't give any of them anything. Especially the attitudes that some of them have. Some of them need a slap.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I've probably watched about 10 episodes. I have to say, the people on that show really make me angry. I wouldn't give any of them anything. Especially the attitudes that some of them have. Some of them need a slap.


Had never seen the show before, but I have to wonder if they are really helping people in need [of help and education], or people like I mentioned above [good looking professionals].


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I have a employee that could be on that show and almost every transaction we go through i feel like mr gail,it's riduclous.(because he is always begging for cash advantages and using emotional triggers like it's christmas/valentines ect,he is 10 yrs older than me and i feel like i'm his father)

I pay him subcontract and he is constantly under water and no matter what he will always be."our/my" company pays him out roughly 3-3,500 a mth(which he should be able to work with)his wife is a nurse and makes roughly the same i think)

Anyways just last wknd i went over to his place to square something up and they recieved a "child credit or something" not sure what it is-He says to me check it out-50 inch flat screen he bought!and then shows me what else they ordered "some gawdy white leather couch"For the last 3 mths him and his girlfriend have been ''scraping" to get by and both of them together could'nt round up enough change to buy a large double/double and i know for a fact they only pay 1000.00 a mth for rent,all that is on there counter is kfc chicken buckets....you just can't teach stupid!....he is a wieght on my shoulders because of his habits and he looks to me and my dad(family business)to bail him out(if he was'nt such a good worker i would of let him go by now)You really can't help some people.


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## not_a_virus.exe (Feb 23, 2012)

Like I'm sure others have said, there never comes a point in your life when you're rich enough to blow everything you have before you die. If everyone really examined their spending habits, most of what they spend their money on, are needless. Why spend 400 dollars on a coat when you can get the same one second hand at a thrift store for maybe 60 bucks and a slight tear in it? Why spend 2k on a collection of DVDs that you'll only watch once when you can pay 7 dollars a month on netflix and have a unlimited amount of entertainment at your fingertips? In the same way that you worry about leaving too much behind for undeserving offspring to inherit it, some also worry about spending money where it doesn't need to be spent. And historically, we have never had anything that money could buy. Some people today even abandon the life of money altogether to live in the woods with a few generators for electricity, growing and hunting their food and chopping firewood to keep themselves warm all without any internet connection or roads or company and they're living the life. Some people need very little money to be happy. That should be seen as an asset, not a disorder.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I used to be very frugal because I put everything into my investment account when I decided that I want to make trading/investing one of my life long pursuits. So, queue some of the things frugal people do. Frugality taught me how to say no to marketing and useless desires.

With my new found entrepreneurial spirit, I have embraced large numbers of $$$ that is necessary to buy equipments. Every object now have a potential ROI in my eyes.

Balancing the two, you can say that my view of money is the same as Louis CK. Money is an energy that you channel to make stuff and throw it out there to see what happens. It's a waste to hoard it.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I deposit all receipts into our investment account and then withdraw money to spend monthly. It is a simple step that forces "pay yourself first" and deciding to spend. We also put all expenditures on a CIBC Visa card and it categorizes everything and we can set spend limits by category so that I get a phone call or email whenever the limit is exceeded. It was all very useful to get spending under control. Now it is redundant, thankfully.

My parents and my brother were compulsive savers, and the habit continued even after they no longer needed it too.


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## brocko (Apr 20, 2009)

I have always been a terrible saver and a worse spender however financially I am ok in my what is now the beginnings of retirement. I admired over the years the savers I have met who are financially ahead of the pack and also too I have envied those who have spent more wisely than me and who enjoy life to the fullest. To each their own is my way of looking at things.


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