# hydro bills



## couchman (Oct 10, 2013)

Just curious how everyones hydro bill has been effected in Ontario. I have not seen a gig change in mine however I am gone all day and all laundry is done in off peak hours. 1700 square foot home in Ottawa with 2 teens. Bill is about 100 dollars a month.I keep hearing terrebale stories of people in rural areas getting bills of 3 or $400 per month. How is your bill.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Fwiw ... if you're in Ottawa, track your usage, bills, here ... https://secure.hydroottawa.com/usage/ ... our _usage_ for January was $117, February was $98 ... and usage is about 63% of the total bill I seem to recall. What's interesting for me is that I had no boarders over that time and so can see about what they cost me in hydro. A bit off topic ... gas heating but still requires hydro ... our home, 3000 ft with about 1800 ft at 60 F (no boarders), 1200 ft at 65 F ... two separate zones/furnaces ... 2 adults with one of them, that would be me, retired, home all day. We do as much as we can off peak ... laundry/electric dryer, roasts, ... 

So to answer your question about an increase ... I'll have to go back through the billing history ... sometime :hopelessness:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I don't notice a difference. Nobody is generally at home during peak hours.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

bill has almost tripled in the last decade. My kwh usage has gone up about 10%


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

It depends on a lot of factors. My bill has been 50% higher this winter because of the cold. On average I'm looking at $75-$100 a month. Natural gas handles the heating (except for the boiler pump), the cooking, the water heating and the clothes drying. We go through a tonne of Natural gas.

Electricity is lights, a small space heater in the spare bath and electronics. That's a family of 4 in 2500 sqft.

By father has an electric water heater, an oil furnace, electric oven and electric clothes drier, a pool pump in the summer and a stand-up cooler in his garage for his business(like a convenience store pop cooler). He chews through $200 a month.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

My most recent bill daily average:

On peak 3 kWh
Mid peak 2 kWh
Off peak 12 kWh
Total 17kWh
Total $113.85

Summer months use more because I have to dehumidify so my wood floor doesn't heave.

The above includes heating hot water which I estimate is about half. The hot water is heated every day 4AM to 6:58AM on a timer. So on a comparable basis to the average city slickers heating water with gas, I use about 1/3 the electricity. It also includes water pumping from the well, but I suspect that cost is not material. There is not much more I can do to fight off McGuinty's legacy.

TOU has raised my bill about $10/month. I cannot move the operational times of many of my key loads: ceiling fans (wood heat!), refrigerators, freezers.

For comparison, I used to use 26kWh/day average in Ottawa a decade ago back with old appliances and gas water heating. A newer freezer and refrigerator makes a huge difference compared to 20 year old stuff.

hboy43


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

crazyjackcsa said:


> It depends on a lot of factors. My bill has been 50% higher this winter because of the cold. On average I'm looking at $75-$100 a month. Natural gas handles the heating (except for the boiler pump), the cooking, the water heating and the clothes drying. We go through a tonne of Natural gas.


Even with a more energy efficient furnace fan motor, my gas bill and hydro bills are a lot higher this winter, but it has been the coldest winter (according to some) in 20 years. 
Last year I installed a ECM fan motor on my 18 year old furnace that is supposed to be 25% energy efficient, but it's hard to figure out what the savings are, 
since I also have a boarder this winter and the furnace has to be set a couple degrees higher.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm not in Ontario but here in NS the rates have been rising faster than a rocket ship, and has been reason for a lot of public backlash. 

I'm all electric (heat, hot water, well pump, utilities) and a minority here on TOU billing since you require some part of your heating with thermal storage to have it. Home is 2800 sq ft. interior(but design has ceilings avg 11ft and exterior surface area closer to a 4000 sq ft+ place), highly insulated with 2 ductless heat pumps, 3 electric storage units, (in-floor electric approx 450 sq ft which we don't use), back up electric baseboards rarely used, all new appliances, hot water heater etc. 1600 sq ft kept at 21c and 1200 sq ft kept at 16c. A significant amount of heating comes from passive solar although this winter wasn't great this way and was also colder than normal. In the summer we also need a lot of dehumidification- coastal area.

2013 usage is 14931 kw for the house & attached garage -(kept at approx4 degrees). Approx 65% on TOU, 15% peak rate, 20% std rate. I also have a detached garage with separate metering, kept above freezing with usage of 895kw, and a streetlight on my property, also billed separately.

House $2050, detached garage $265, streetlight $190 = $2505 incl taxes in 2013

To achieve this we're relatively frugal and energy conscious. Most homes in the province are heated with oil-(costly)


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

In Ottawa...

1800 sq. foot bungalow; 2 adults; average $125 per month.

Like rikk, we do as much as we can off peak after 7 pm.


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## couchman (Oct 10, 2013)

just opened my bill. 29 days on peak 3 mid peak 2 off peak 13 total 18 kwh 

Total bill $99.01 delivery charge $42.69 regulatory charges $3.58 debt retirement charge $3.86 hst $12.71
So gas usage $36.17 other charges $62.84


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hboy43 said:


> Hi:
> 
> 
> Off peak 12 kWh
> ...


Don'f forget also that the rates went up about 2c/kwh recently, off peak is now 7.2c/kwh (12am-7am); mid 10.9ckwh (11am to 5pm) and peak at 12.9c/kwh 7AM-11AM
and (5pm to 7pm)...and that makes a difference to your bill. Mchuinty/Wynne made sure that unless you want to eat breakfast/lunch or dinner between 12am and 7am, YOU ARE
GOING TO PAY MORE...AND MORE AS TIME GOES ON. Can't really win at their game. 



> For comparison, I used to use 26kWh/day average in Ottawa a decade ago back with old appliances and gas water heating. A newer freezer and refrigerator makes a huge difference compared to 20 year old stuff.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

carverman said:


> Don'f forget also that the rates went up about 2c/kwh recently, off peak is now 7.2c/kwh (12am-7am); mid 10.9ckwh (11am to 5pm) and peak at 12.9c/kwh 7AM-11AM
> and (5pm to 7pm)...and that makes a difference to your bill. Mchuinty/Wynne made sure that unless you want to eat breakfast/lunch or dinner between 12am and 7am, YOU ARE
> GOING TO PAY MORE...AND MORE AS TIME GOES ON. Can't really win at their game.


That's a good deal- ours is 

off peak .7324 11-7am + weekends & holidays
std .14251 7am-11pm weekdays Mar1-November30 / 12noon-4pm only Dec 1-Feb28
hi peak .18709 7am-12noon&4pm-11pm Dec1-Feb28

and an energy efficiency program charge that adds another $.005845 /kw
plus tax


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I had no idea how lucky I was until I read some of your posts. I pay an equal amount every month, based on my average use over the year. It's just been reduced from $43 to $41 a month for my 1830 square foot one-level house. But that's just electricity; my furnace and hot water tank are both heated with natural gas. As Carverman pointed out, I could reduce the B.C. Hydro cost considerably by replacing my kitchen appliances which are nearly 25 years old. My neighbour, who also lives alone in a similar house, had her hydro bill go down to $30 a month when she bought new appliances.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

RBull said:


> That's a good deal- ours is
> 
> off peak .7324 11-7am + weekends & holidays
> std .14251 7am-11pm weekdays Mar1-November30 / 12noon-4pm only Dec 1-Feb28
> ...


I suspect carverman is using just the energy figure and you are quoting energy and delivery figure.

hboy43


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Karen said:


> I had no idea how lucky I was until I read some of your posts. I pay an equal amount every month, based on my average use over the year. It's just been reduced from $43 to $41 a month


I have not figured out the Ontario details in years, but there is a fixed cost just to be connected to the grid here. I expect the minimum possible bill in Ontario for someone that uses ZERO electricity is $40 or more.

hboy43


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

hboy43 said:


> I suspect carverman is using just the energy figure and you are quoting energy and delivery figure.
> 
> hboy43


Not quite sure what you mean by energy figure "and delivery". 

What I quoted is energy rates. We also have a $18.88 base rate per month charge added to the energy cost. Perhaps this is the equivalent of "delivery"


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Karen said:


> I had no idea how lucky I was until I read some of your posts. I pay an equal amount every month, based on my average use over the year. It's just been reduced from $43 to $41 a month for my 1830 square foot one-level house. But that's just electricity; my furnace and hot water tank are both heated with natural gas. As Carverman pointed out, I could reduce the B.C. Hydro cost considerably by replacing my kitchen appliances which are nearly 25 years old. My neighbour, who also lives alone in a similar house, had her hydro bill go down to $30 a month when she bought new appliances.


Not sure if this is directed at me or not. Please keep in mind this is my heating, air conditioning, hot water and all other electricity. My home energy costs would be way on the low end for this region, so therefore you might be shocked by some others. As I mentioned before this is one of the reasons residents are very agitated at escalating hydro rates around here. 

However if you are in the Vancouver area home price comparisons would tell a whole different story.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

hboy43 said:


> I have not figured out the Ontario details in years, but there is a fixed cost just to be connected to the grid here. I expect the minimum possible bill in Ontario for someone that uses ZERO electricity is $40 or more.
> 
> hboy43


1100 sq/ft condo in Ontario, over the past year I've average between $18-$24 per month (hydro). My usage is minimum and I suspect the minimum monthly would be around $13-$15 / month in Ontario.

I heat with natural gas (furnace, fireplace & hot water tank) and all my appliances are relatively new (3-4 yrs old) and energy efficient. I try to take advantage of off peak usage.

I'm not so lucky for my business though. Bills have gone up ever since the switch to the smart-meters. Business hrs pretty much equate to peak usage.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Even with a more energy efficient furnace fan motor, my gas bill and hydro bills are a lot higher this winter, but it has been the coldest winter (according to some) in 20 years.
> Last year I installed a ECM fan motor on my 18 year old furnace that is supposed to be 25% energy efficient, but it's hard to figure out what the savings are,
> since I also have a boarder this winter and the furnace has to be set a couple degrees higher.


I've tracked my actual hourly usage on my boiler over the last seven years. Normally I use 1000 "boiler hours" a year. My usage is 25% higher this year than the average year. The recirculating pump uses about 350 watts. That's a pretty big increase in power, but not a huge increase in costs.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

RBull said:


> Not quite sure what you mean by energy figure "and delivery".


Oh, you live Atlantic Canada somewhere so apples and oranges. The figures carverman quoted were only the cost of the energy in Ontario. One also has to pay to get it to your house another 6 or 8 cents a kWh or so. So that is why it appeared you were paying so much more than him.

hboy43


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Synergy said:


> 1100 sq/ft condo in Ontario, over the past year I've average between $18-$24 per month (hydro). My usage is minimum and I suspect the minimum monthly would be around $13-$15 / month in Ontario.


Well I don't know if I have had a memory failure, they changed things again, or a condo has a fundamentally different arrangement than a free standing house, but I am 90% sure that some years ago my minimum bill with no usage was about $40. Or it might have been the screwing I was taking because this dwelling was classified as seasonal when I looked into it. It is all very complicated. Took me about half a day to ferret out all the different fees and BS to come up with a final average cost per kWh as well as marginal cost per kWh. I'll have to go to the Hydro One site and figure out the exact billing details again some time. It shouldn't be this complicated. As I can't get electricity without paying for delivery, it is quite obfuscatory (spelling?) and disingenuous to play up the energy cost instead of the final total bottom line delivered cost.

hboy43

hboy43


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hboy43 said:


> Well I don't know if I have had a memory failure, they changed things again, or a condo has a fundamentally different arrangement than a free standing house, but I am 90% sure that some years ago my minimum bill with no usage was about $40.
> 
> hboy43


If you are connected to the grid and have a smart meter, you will still get charged a minimum charge...(see link)..
add to the grid connection charge, some other charges, (debt reduction?) including monthly smart meter charge and with 13% tax in Ontario, 
you are already at $27.59..even if you don't use a single kwh of electricity. 

Its the same with Enbridge gas..you will get charged at least $20 customer charge (+ HST), and if you have a rental hwt..the monthly tank rental is also added,
(even if you turn off the pilot light)..so Enbridge will be at least $30+ per month , even if your dwelling doesn't use single cu meter of gas during the
summer months. 
If you are hooked up to the grid , or the gas distribution lines..you pay whether you use any energy or not. 

http://www.hydroone.com/RegulatoryAffairs/RatesPrices/Pages/SeasonalDeliveryRates.aspx


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

hboy43 said:


> Oh, you live Atlantic Canada somewhere so apples and oranges. The figures carverman quoted were only the cost of the energy in Ontario. One also has to pay to get it to your house another 6 or 8 cents a kWh or so. So that is why it appeared you were paying so much more than him.
> 
> hboy43


Yes, as stated in my opening post.

Thank you for the update. So cost of electricity is higher overall in Ont than in NS. That is expensive.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

hboy43 said:


> Well I don't know if I have had a memory failure, they changed things again, or a condo has a fundamentally different arrangement than a free standing house, but I am 90% sure that some years ago my minimum bill with no usage was about $40. Or it might have been the screwing I was taking because this dwelling was classified as seasonal when I looked into it. It is all very complicated. Took me about half a day to ferret out all the different fees and BS to come up with a final average cost per kWh as well as marginal cost per kWh. I'll have to go to the Hydro One site and figure out the exact billing details again some time. It shouldn't be this complicated. As I can't get electricity without paying for delivery, it is quite obfuscatory (spelling?) and disingenuous to play up the energy cost instead of the final total bottom line delivered cost.
> 
> hboy43
> 
> hboy43


Condo's, Townhouses, etc. are no different than a free standing home - they all have their own meter and pay the same residential rates.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

Electricity is one of the scariest concepts for me in my retirement planning. Ontario has gone rogue.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

carverman said:


> Its the same with Enbridge gas..you will get charged at least $20 customer charge (+ HST), and if you have a rental hwt..the monthly tank rental is also added,
> (even if you turn off the pilot light)..so Enbridge will be at least $30+ per month , even if your dwelling doesn't use single cu meter of gas during the


I'm not sure how accurate that is. During the summer months when my furnace is shut off and my gas fireplace pilot light it turned off my average monthly gas bill with Enbridge is approximately $21. This price includes my hot water usage (gas - water tank), so the base charge is likely around $17 or $18 / month (Ontario).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Synergy said:


> I'm not sure how accurate that is. During the summer months when my furnace is shut off and my gas fireplace pilot light it turned off my average monthly gas bill with Enbridge is approximately $21. This price includes my hot water usage (gas - water tank), *so the base charge is likely around $17 or $18 / month (Ontario)*.


My Enbridge bill indicates that the customer charge is $20. 


> Monthly Charges	Monthly Rates
> January 1, 2014	Annualized
> Increase/(Decrease)
> Customer Charge	$20	No Change


That takes into account the meter reading and any other "services" that the customer has to pay (besides HST) on this amount. If you rent a HWT,
that monthly rental charge is 
Average Rental $23.99 p/month x 12 months + HST..

so if your furnace doesn't require any gas in the summer and you don't need hot water..(ie" you turn off the pilot flame on the older tanks)..you still get a bill for: $44 +HST = $49.72


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

carverman said:


> My Enbridge bill indicates that the customer charge is $20.
> 
> That takes into account the meter reading and any other "services" that the customer has to pay (besides HST) on this amount. If you rent a HWT,
> that monthly rental charge is
> ...


Here's a typical bill for me in the summer months.

Customer Charge: $20
Delivery to you: $0.90
Transportation to Enbridge: $0.62
Gas Supply Charge: $1.08
Cost Adjustment: $0.14 CR
Total New Gas Charge: $22.46
HST: $2.92

*Total $25.38*

I run my gas heated hot water tank year round and my total is quite a bit less than your $30+ from post #22

Additionally, take my hydro bill

OFF PEAK WINTER 0.063000 (Rate), 52.02 (Usage), $3.36 (Charge)
MID PEAK WINTER 0.099000 (Rate), 8.29 (Usage), $0.83 (Charge)
ON PEAK WINTER 0.118000 (Rate) 12.72 (Usage), $1.50 (Charge)
DELIVERY, $11.87
REGULATORY CHARGES, $0.69
DEBT RETIREMENT CHARGE, $0.48
*
Total Electricity Charge $18.73 + HST ($2.43) = $21.16*
Note: that my figure does not include the Ont Clean Energy Benefit -10%, so my figure should actually be a little lower.

Still quite a bit lower than your $27.59 quoted in post #22


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> ... If you rent a HWT, that monthly rental charge is
> Average Rental $23.99 p/month x 12 months + HST...


Apparently my co-worker's HWT is a below average rental @ $15.59 a month ....


Cheers


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Apparently my co-worker's HWT is a below average rental @ $15.59 a month ....
> 
> 
> Cheers


Ok. Ok...there are different tanks out there..and if he has an older flue style HWT..where they are still charging that rental. 

For the newer (induced draft) HWT with the abs exhaust pipe that goes out the basement of the house, they are charging more..I got the number from the Direct Energy website as
Enbridge hasn't been in the tank rental business for years now. I own my own convential flue type..it cost me less than $369 in 2000. Installed it myself. It had a pro-rated warranty
for 9 years, now it will be 14 years in September of this year..so lets see how much I have saved by not renting...$15.59 x 12 = 187.08 + Hst ($24.32) = $211.40 per year x 14 = $2959.60
so if I subtract about $400 for the tank..that's..$2500 in my pocket over 14 years vs Direct Energy's.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/03/12/hydro_one_bill_for_233692_prompts_call_for_ceo_to_resign.html ...



> ... The Progressive Conservatives are calling for Hydro One president and CEO Carmine Marcello to resign immediately over the billing fiasco that has gripped the Crown corporation.
> 
> Waving a bill a constituent received for *$233,692.70*, Tory MPP Jeff Yurek (Elgin-Middlesex-London) said Wednesday it is further evidence that Marcello should leave.


 ... don't think anyone here can beat this bill's numbers. Holy e-crap. Is this billing fiasco an Ontario problem only?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Hydro rates in Ontario top my list of scams and tax grabs - nothing else even comes close to it.
There was a long running thread on the forum way back in '09 when the rates first started going up as a result of huge increases in base rates, plus the imposition of the HST, plus the TOU money grab.
My bills have gone up nearly 2x times as a result of the 3 factors mentioned above.

As long as we have been paying bills, we have always optimized our energy usage.
Always done laundry, dishwashing etc. after 8:00 pm, used CFL bulbs, turned off ghost power, etc.

The sad part is that so little of this money grab is actually going towards improving the infrastructure of the province.
Most of this is going to the fatcats at OPG, OEB, Hydro One and other related crown corps., the overly generous pension plans of the unions, and whatever is left is being squandered away on wasteful boondoggles like the solar and wind projects.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> Always done laundry, dishwashing etc. after 8:00 pm


After 7:00 pm hereabouts.


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