# Equitable Bank



## newfoundlander61

"Equitable Bank, the Canadian alternative-mortgage provider, is jumping into the online banking business with a savings account that pays more than triple the interest rate of other branchless rivals."

http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/equitable-launches-digital-bank-with-3-interest-savings-account-to-lure-deposits-from-canadian-rivals


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## Soon Forget

This is very tempting as an alternative to Tangerine. Tangerine is becoming increasingly frustrating to deal with.


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## brad

Agree that it looks like an interesting alternative.

@Soon Forget, what are your frustrations with Tangerine? I haven't had any at all and have been perfectly happy with them.


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## Soon Forget

Having to call them up every 3 or 6 months to haggle about the interest rate is the annoying part. Transactions are always smooth and timely, no concerns there.


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## pwm

3% on savings seems too good to be true. Their 5 year GIC is 2.2% which is less than Achieva's which is 2.5%. How long will that 3% rate last before it goes down to 1.7% like Achieva's which is about as good as you can get.


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## peterk

Hmm. I guess I should open one of these. Right now my cash is split between Zag at 2.5% and Tangerine at 2.34%.

You're right pwn I'm sure the 3% rate will drop at some point. They'd be pretty ballsy to do that before at least 6 months is up though, probably a year I'd say. They're opening a whole new banking branch after all, not just a new promotion or account.


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## pwm

Yes, I'm tempted. I have emergency cash parked at Achieva getting 1.7% and planned to add to it. 3% would be great for as long as it lasts.


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## gibor365

> How long will that 3% rate last before it goes down to 1.7% like Achieva's which is about as good as you can get.


 this is THE question  .... I doubt they will keep 3% more than 6 months....


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## gibor365

So far customer service at EQ is pretty good....you can have live chat and call them 24/7 (not like PT that doesn't work on weekends).


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## Soon Forget

gibor, please keep us updated on what you learn from EQ


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## gibor365

Soon Forget said:


> gibor, please keep us updated on what you learn from EQ


 No prob;em 
So far opened account for myself, my wife and my mom ....will mail cheques next week...


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## Synergy

I opened an account. The mobile app wouldn't work for me. Very finicky, it kept logging me out during or after the snapshots. I'm not the only one having issues with their mobile app. I will mail cheque next wk. I spoke with a rep on the phone, very good customer service.


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## pwm

I also opened an account. I didn't even bother trying the tablet app. The cheque will go out in Monday's mail. I have no doubt that the 3% rate will be reduced, but I'm betting that even when it does, it will still be better than the alternatives. I'm only getting 1.7% at Achieva.


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## PrairieGal

I think I will open an account. I have been thinking of transferring some money out of chequing that is savings for sinking funds. Might as well make a little interest on it.


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## fatcat

i will be interested to see how long this lasts ... i give it 6 months
if it goes a full year you can make $1250 on 100K over current rates of 1.75
if you placing like 50K for 6 months or so, maybe not worth the trouble


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## gibor365

I don't like that they don't offer joint accounts. I'm pretty comfortable to keep more than 100K on one account in Tangerine or PCF, but scared to exceed CDIC limits of 100K in EQ or PT... So, maximum we can keep in EQ is 200K...
Anybody planning to move to EQ more than 100K per account?


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## Synergy

Sticking to the CDIC limits for EQ.

I watched an EQ Bank commercial advertising their 3% rate on BNN this evening. I think they'll try to maintain the rate for at least 6 month to 1 year, if not longer. Worst case they lower their rates to be more in line with Tangerine, etc.


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## gibor365

Synergy said:


> Sticking to the CDIC limits for EQ.
> 
> I watched an EQ Bank commercial advertising their 3% rate on BNN this evening. I think they'll try to maintain the rate for at least 6 month to 1 year, if not longer. Worst case they lower their rates to be more in line with Tangerine, etc.


if they lower, probaly it will be first to 2.5%  still better than tangerine amd other banks


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## gardner

They have a maximum account balance of $500K -- not really an issue for most, I assume. 1/2M is a lot of cash to sit on.

According to their web site



> Great rates, all the time
> 
> There’s no introductory period, no limited time promotional rate and no minimum balance to maintain


Which doesn't really answer the Q how long they will sustain 3%. They could adjust it down any time I would think, though with wording like this in the advertising, they could be hit with a complaint if they moved too fast or too much. It feels like you could get 6 months out of them at 3%.


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## AltaRed

It will depend on the size of the tsunami of money that comes their way.


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## pnky

AltaRed said:


> It will depend on the size of the tsunami of money that comes their way.


It appears they are now offering 1.3% ?

http://www.equitablebank.ca/brokerage/en/ds-hisa.html


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## Synergy

pnky said:


> It appears they are now offering 1.3% ?
> 
> http://www.equitablebank.ca/brokerage/en/ds-hisa.html


I think you got the wrong website!
https://www.eqbank.ca/personal-banking/features-rates


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## pnky

Synergy said:


> I think you got the wrong website!
> https://www.eqbank.ca/personal-banking/features-rates


Thanks !


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## gardner

I signed up. 3% is better than I'm getting anywhere else and I'll put a block of GIC ladder money in there for at least as long as it beats the other options.


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## Mortgage u/w

Nice. Not available for Quebec residents. We always have to be different.....


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## gibor365

gardner said:


> I signed up. 3% is better than I'm getting anywhere else and I'll put a block of GIC ladder money in there for at least as long as it beats the other options.


I will continue my GIC ladder as I'm scared to park more than 100K per account in EQ


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## gibor365

Mortgage u/w said:


> Nice. Not available for Quebec residents. We always have to be different.....


I always surprised why  i think PCF is also not eligible for QC..
QC always wants to show how freakin' they different from the RoC


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## latebuyer

Do you know if they do a hard credit check?


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## Mortgage u/w

gibor said:


> I always surprised why  i think PCF is also not eligible for QC..
> QC always wants to show how freakin' they different from the RoC


QC's only alternative I am aware of is Tangerine. There may be others who have joined....QC has always been late to the table. QC has provincial laws which are much different than the rest of Canada - mainly due to the 'french'. Sad to say but the minority(french) seem to have precedence because they bark the most. I am amazed how blind they are when it comes to protecting their insignificant language. I live in quebec and I am confident that the majority in the Montreal area have the same mindset as myself. I guess we are all waiting for the last generation to disappear in order to end the animosity. Sorry for my rant and for hacking the thread.....


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## Eclectic12

gibor said:


> I always surprised why  ...
> QC always wants to show how freakin' they different from the RoC


It's the differences in the laws/judgements being weighed against the costs of maintaining two different setups for the same product. For example, the lawyer has to review the life insurance contract for RoC and then repeat the process for Quebec.

The insurance company I worked for many moons ago avoided Quebec for decades because they didn't think they'd generate enough profits to counter balance the extra costs and risks. A new CEO came in, thought this was crazy and expanded into Quebec. Two years later they dropped the Quebec business because it was too expensive.

If I still have the book that provided an example of how a Quebec court judgement would go versus the RoC (and I have time :biggrin: ), I'll post it.


Cheers


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## gibor365

> I guess we are all waiting for the last generation to disappear in order to end the animosity.


 i'm not sure it will happened... I travel a lot to Cuba and meet there a lot of QC people.... Practically no one from them, except who lives in Montreal and partially Quebec City, speaks English... And I'm talking about young guys 20-40 y.o.

First time when I was drinking with 30 y.o guy from Rimouski, i was so surprised that he cannot even count in English (I mean 1,2, 3) :biggrin: 

Even in suburbs of Montreal, when we stopped at Home Depot and I asked local worker for washroom / restroom , he couldn't understand me.... only when I said in Russian "toalet" , he understood me 


> I am amazed how blind they are when it comes to protecting their insignificant language.


 me 2


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## gibor365

> It's the differences in the laws/judgements being weighed against the costs of maintaining two different setups for the same product.


 At my work I'm dealing with all possible Canadian tax forms... and I find it insane that for every Federal form, exist QC form... for example, T3 -> R16, T5 -> R3, T4RSP -> RELEVE2, T4A -> RELEVE1, T5008 -> R18 ....and so on....
And it`s becoming worse and worse.... starting last year MRQ (QC analog of CRA) requires that every institution should get MRQ certification for every Releve, even if nothing was changed..
We have now special annual project to do so....
No wonder that EQ doesn`t want to waste money to issue R3 for interest earned, they gonna have enough customers from real Canada


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## Eclectic12

Mortgage u/w said:


> ... QC has provincial laws which are much different than the rest of Canada - mainly due to the 'french'.


 ... and I was taught that it was because the British Empire passing the "Royal Proclamation of 1763" and later legislation such as "The Quebec Act of 1774" that lined up the law with French civil law.

AFAICT ... it's French law because of what the Brits did ... not the French in Quebec.

[ ... which makes it amusing when there are complaints about the Brits as I am not aware of any French territory that was granted similar privileges. ]




Mortgage u/w said:


> ... Sorry for my rant and for hacking the thread.....


Returning to the topic ... the different law/application adds costs and risks that don't fit the template for the RoC. Some companies will decide it's worth the effort/cost (ex. Tangerine apparently) and some skip Quebec (ex. PCF).


Cheers


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## avrex

Rob Carrick (Globe and Mail) also agrees and says we should, "grab this no-risk 3% return on savings while you can".

EQ Bank pitches attractive (but temporary) 3% return on savings


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## humble_pie

Eclectic12 said:


> Returning to the topic ... the different law/application adds costs and risks that don't fit the template for the RoC. Some companies will decide it's worth the effort/cost (ex. Tangerine apparently) and some skip Quebec (ex. PCF)



it might be a question of legal reponsibilities being different under quebec civil law for insurance companies, as eclectic points out.

but afaik, for common-and-garden variety financial companies such as smaller banks (EQ bank here) or smaller mutual fund companies (steadyhand), what keeps them out of quebec is the requirement that all of their prospectuses, services, terms & conditions, applications, in fact their entire suite of documentation, must be translated into french.

translation services are fiercely expensive. It costs more to translate most documents than to pay ab editorial staff to create them in the first place.

so many small financial companies simply skip quebec. They decide in advance that they'll never get enough quebec business to justify the very high upfront cost of making all documentation bilingual.


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## gibor365

avrex said:


> Rob Carrick (Globe and Mail) also agrees and says we should, "grab this no-risk 3% return on savings while you can".
> 
> EQ Bank pitches attractive (but temporary) 3% return on savings


Too bad that CDIC doesn`t increase 100K limit  . 100K was set more than 10 years ago and considering inflation should be increased ... 
in the United States (the FDIC) has increased its deposit insurance maximum to $250,000 , it`s 3.5 times higher than ours!


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## PrairieGal

gibor said:


> Too bad that CDIC doesn`t increase 100K limit  . 100K was set more than 10 years ago and considering inflation should be increased ...
> in the United States (the FDIC) has increased its deposit insurance maximum to $250,000 , it`s 3.5 times higher than ours!


100,000 X 3.5 = 350,000


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## gibor365

PrairieGal said:


> 100,000 X 3.5 = 350,000


350,000USD = 245,000CAD


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## pwm

My cheque went out in the mail on Jan 18. It still has not been cashed. I got this email from them just now:

_Dear xxxxx,
Over the last few weeks, we’ve received an overwhelming response to the launch of EQ Bank and the EQ Bank Savings Plus Account. You and many other Canadians have trusted us with your business, and we truly value and appreciate it. 
The EQ Bank team is working hard to get your account activated and you will receive your welcome email 5 business days after your initial cheque has been processed. We apologize for any inconvenience and we plan to have you on board very soon. 
We look forward to helping you and many other Canadians reach their savings goals. 
Sincerely,
EQ Bank
_

They must be overwhelmed with new business. Anyone here actually have an open account with them yet?


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## AltaRed

3% might be short lived then.


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## gibor365

> They must be overwhelmed with new business. Anyone here actually have an open account with them yet?


read below
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/eq-bank-online-bank-3-everyday-interest-rate-1903377/46/


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## pwm

Thanks gibor. I laughed at the last comment:

_"They must have doubled their staff. They now have 2"_


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## gibor365

I sent cheques last Tue, yesterday cheques were processed, in about 5 business day (next Mon?) accounts should be opened


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## olivaw

Good thread. I started the account process today: registered online; downloaded the iPhone App and used it to send a photograph of my cheque. It took about ten minutes in total. I started with $100 and plan to deposit 100K if all goes well.


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## Userkare

gibor said:


> 350,000USD = 245,000CAD


Where can I get that exchange rate? 

US$250K ~= CDN$350K

W.R.T. EQ Bank... I have $20K, that for some unknown stupid reason, I put into an HSBC 5yr BRIC stock indexed GIC ( where the principal is guaranteed ). It matures soon, and I expect to get exactly my $20K back. If EQ is still offering 3%, that seems a great place to park that money until I decide what else to do with it. Maybe even transfer additional $$$ from PCF savings. Big question is still how long will 3% last, and when it does end, where will it be?


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## gibor365

> US$250K ~= CDN$350K


 That what I meant  and it's 3.5 times higher than Canadian 100K secured by CDIC


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## james4beach

I love how none of you have any fear about a small bank offering very high deposit interest rates.

It was just 8 years ago that several of the big banks in Canada came within an inch of their lives. Do you guys really not have ANY concerns about this?

Equitable Bank's business is _entirely_ mortgages, so they don't have any of the diversification of the bigger banks. If there's a real estate crash, this bank will fail. During the last weak period of Canadian real estate, 1980-1988, there were an average of 2.6 bank failures per year. We haven't seen a real estate bear market since but when it hits, banks like Equitable Bank and Peoples Trust will fail.


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## Moneytoo

james4beach said:


> ...banks like Equitable Bank and Peoples Trust will fail.


Zag Bank as well I guess? (I'm debating between PT 5 year GICs @ 2.45% and Zag's 2.3% - the highest offered through Questrade... Equitable is 2.15%, so guess it's "safer"? )


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## gibor365

> I love how none of you have any fear about a small bank offering very high deposit interest rates.


Up to 100K per account is insured CDIC, meaning by Canadian government... do you believe that CDIC is lying and not gonna return those 100K to people?! If it's true Canada is not country, but one big joke!
I still believe that CDIC will return to Canadians ALL insured money, even if one of big 6 is going to be bankrupt... another story that in this case CAD$ can be 0.3-0.4 of US$, but in this case it doesn't mateer if you had your money in EQ or under your mattress....


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## gibor365

Moneytoo said:


> Zag Bank as well I guess? (I'm debating between PT 5 year GICs @ 2.45% and Zag's 2.3% - the highest offered through Questrade... Equitable is 2.15%, so guess it's "safer"? )


The highest 5 years GIC in CIBC is 2.25% (offered by 4 banks include NA), hghest 2y 1.76% offered by B2B and LB (PT gives 2.2%)


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## Moneytoo

gibor said:


> The highest 5 years GIC in CIBC is 2.25% (offered by 4 banks include NA)


Yep, Scotiabank was a bit higher recently, but now also 2.25%. Am I too sleepy or the difference between PT @ 2.45% and NA's 2.25% is 20 bucks per year/$100 in 5 years on a 10K GIC? 

(We did the comparison between PT 1.45% HISA and Equitable 3% and decided it's not worth the hassle to move our measly 47.5K... )

Just saw it - Oaken 1.95% 1 year, 2.5% 5 year GICs. But I just really don't want to have multiple accounts, so ideally would like to stick to either PT or QT...


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## james4beach

gibor said:


> Up to 100K per account is insured CDIC, meaning by Canadian government... do you believe that CDIC is lying and not gonna return those 100K to people?!


I think CDIC will make good, but personally I'd rather not go through that hassle and stress. Yes I realize that often the banks are seamlessly acquired by others and there's no blip. Still, I'd rather lend my money to a bank that I think can actually repay me (that's just crazy old me)

Here's another way of looking at it. If all CDIC insured accounts were equal, then wouldn't market forces cause all CDIC-insured GICs to have the same interest rate?


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## RBull

Thanks for the concern James. 

I would expect you to shun anything new or paying more, since yes, they have a different business model with potentially higher risk. Hence the higher interest rate. Market forces doesn't create equality, nor has anyone said they do except you. There is something called competition that leads to differences in operating models and costs. 

Not all of us worry, or stress or see the hassle with putting some of our money there with the backstop of CDIC. 

The same as with investments, not all people are created equal.


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## GreatLaker

Has anyone had a problem opening an account? I did not get the email that allowed me to confirm my email address. When I try to login I get an error message stating that the email and password I entered was incorrect. I called the call centre and they suggested I restart the account opening process again. When I try that it says I am already registered. I even tried using a different email address and got the same message. I emailed their support address, but wondered if anyone here has the same problem.


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## NorthernRaven

Moneytoo said:


> Yep, Scotiabank was a bit higher recently, but now also 2.25%. Am I too sleepy or the difference between PT @ 2.45% and NA's 2.25% is 20 bucks per year/$100 in 5 years on a 10K GIC?
> 
> (We did the comparison between PT 1.45% HISA and Equitable 3% and decided it's not worth the hassle to move our measly 47.5K... )
> 
> Just saw it - Oaken 1.95% 1 year, 2.5% 5 year GICs. But I just really don't want to have multiple accounts, so ideally would like to stick to either PT or QT...


Yours would be $60/month, albeit pre-tax. I'm fairly lazy myself, but getting an extra jolt on my paycheque every month isn't something to sneeze at. If Tangerine, EQ, etc are going to play around with 3% promo rates, I tend to do the transfer every few months (I already had a dormant Tang account).

Those Oaken GIC rates look pretty much the same as PT's.



james4beach said:


> I think CDIC will make good, but personally I'd rather not go through that hassle and stress. Yes I realize that often the banks are seamlessly acquired by others and there's no blip. Still, I'd rather lend my money to a bank that I think can actually repay me (that's just crazy old me)
> 
> Here's another way of looking at it. If all CDIC insured accounts were equal, then wouldn't market forces cause all CDIC-insured GICs to have the same interest rate?


People keep bringing up that "market forces" fallacy. The same item may cost $1/$1.50/$2/$2.50 at Dollarama/Walmart/Loblaws/7-11; it doesn't speak to a difference in the item itself. Or if Scotiabank offers a GIC at 1% interest over the counter in branch, but at 1.5% through deposit brokers, it obviously doesn't mean that one identical GIC is more risky than the other, just that one channel is more discerning (i.e. less stupid) than the other. To a certain extent retail interest rates are a function of the lowest rate that will attract sufficient business to supply the needs of the institution, and the forces affecting that include convenience, familiarity, ignorance, etc. The Big5 banks have massive legacy customer bases, and can provide other bundled services to their savings customers. To disrupt that market one has to offer notably superior value (and get noticed), which may involve better efficiency and/or lower profit margins, rather than necessarily an increase in "risk". You saw ING/PCF bring their rates down to within 25 basis points of the majors (even before ING was bought) - all banks prefer to pay less interest once it is possible. 

Now there may indeed be more "risk" in Equitable Bank's operations, but most people aren't equipped to properly measure that, and even the general sense of "I think they are more risky" is only part of what these sorts of small banks have to counter by offering higher rates. If you want a market judgement, look at bond ratings or the rate markets require for commercial paper and so on, where risk is being much more directly priced.

I'd suspect that if there _were_ to be a CDIC institution failing, it might indeed be a small and/or overly aggressive player in subprime mortgage and consumer credit. However, even if the regulators had been getting complacent (no failures since 1996), the 2008 crash will have given them a wake-up call.


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## gibor365

> (We did the comparison between PT 1.45% HISA and Equitable 3% and decided it's not worth the hassle to move our measly 47.5K...


 It still more than $60/months= 

I'm moving to EQ 250K, opened account for myself , my wife and my mom.
The difference between Tangerine (2%) and EQ (3%) is $208 per month.

We got 2% Tangerine retention rate until mid-June, imho after this , rate will be much less, unless PCF won't introduce similar promotion.... for EQ I expect same time rate will go down to 2.5%


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## Moneytoo

gibor said:


> It still more than $60/months=


$40-$30 after tax (depending who'll claim it - this is our first year of using HISA, I'll see how it's taxed ) If they introduce joint accounts in the future, maybe I'll convince my husband. But for now I'd rather be adding more to our Zenbanx accounts (albeit also no joints) and converting to USD (they pay 1.5% on CAD and 0.5% on USD balances) In case CAD goes down right before we're heading south :biggrin:


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## gibor365

> $40-$30 after tax (depending who'll claim it


still 1 free bottle of Russkij Standard every month 

in 2015, we got in interest a bit more than $8,500 CAD + $1,000 in USD dividends fro cash account (the only cash account we have in brokerage). This is practically exactly how much room we have left every year (after Group RRSP contributions) , so just contributing to RRSPs and thinking that we don't pay taxes on it


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## Jungle

I read on greatorfool the EQ Bank will use the cash to sell subprime mortgages, which is how they are paying out a substantial higher amount than anyone else. http://www.greaterfool.ca/2016/01/24/dead-money/

Normal Tangerine (ING) rate is 0.80% right now.

Stay within the CDIC limit.


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## james4beach

I just bring it up as a risk. Of course the CDIC insurance is essential. As Jungle says, not only does Equitable deal in higher risk mortgages, but they also suffer from duration mismatch which is what sank Fannie Mae. They have short term liabilities (the savings accounts you guys are putting money in) funded by longer term mortgages.

Good point from NorthernRaven that the efficient market may be a fallacy when it comes to deposit and GIC rates


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## NorthernRaven

james4beach said:


> I just bring it up as a risk. Of course the CDIC insurance is essential. As Jungle says, not only does Equitable deal in higher risk mortgages, but they also suffer from duration mismatch which is what sank Fannie Mae. They have short term liabilities (the savings accounts you guys are putting money in) funded by longer term mortgages.
> 
> Good point from NorthernRaven that the efficient market may be a fallacy when it comes to deposit and GIC rates


I don't think "duration mismatch" would accurately describe the problems of Fannie and Freddie. They are in the business of buying and securitizing mortgages, which they guarantee. There trouble came from a huge, nationwide increase in non-performing mortgages, as well as the fact that they had accepted ever-increasing levels of non-prime, alt, etc mortgages that turned out to have bad or even fraudulent underwriting standards, their own investments in toxic mortgage securities, etc. Duration is more with a lending institution - if you have (just an example) 50% of your capital from short term notes and 80% of it tied up in 5-year fixed mortgages, if you can't keep rolling over your funding sources you have problems!

For Equitable, they have a prime-mortgage business as well as their traditional alternative line. And as a federally regulated deposit-taking institution I believe they are required to have all mortgages written at less that 20% equity (LTV) guaranteed by CMHC or equivalent, so that's a shock-absorber in their portfolio.


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## gibor365

Do you think CDIC doesn't monitor financial institution before granting them membership?


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## Beaver101

^ Does it matter if taxpayers are going to provide bail-ins in the (remote or unlikely) event of bank failures?


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## pwm

In the Financial Post today:

http://business.financialpost.com/p...with-its-3-interest-rate-heres-how-they-do-it


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## gibor365

pwm said:


> In the Financial Post today:
> 
> http://business.financialpost.com/p...with-its-3-interest-rate-heres-how-they-do-it


Cayley Kochel, a spokeswoman for Tangerine, said the bank was offering a three per cent rate a few months ago, and she did not rule out its return.

“It’s possible that we may see it again in the future,” she said in an email. -> nice


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## Barwelle

They must be feeling the hit from people who are voting with their dollars. like me


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## Compounding1

If you're concerned about insolvency and still depositing 100k for CDIC limit, I hope you would deposit just under 100k or else you wouldn't be covered for any interest you earn, no?


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## Userkare

Compounding1 said:


> If you're concerned about insolvency and still depositing 100k for CDIC limit, I hope you would deposit just under 100k or else you wouldn't be covered for any interest you earn, no?


Correct, or withdraw the interest every few months.


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## gibor365

Userkare said:


> Correct, or withdraw the interest every few months.


For simplicity I park 100K per account and will transfer out interest every month


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## peterk

gibor said:


> _*For simplicity*_ I park 100K per account and will transfer out interest every month


Sheesh. Wouldn't parking 98k and transferring out interest once per year be a lot simpler?


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## gibor365

peterk said:


> Sheesh. Wouldn't parking 98k and transferring out interest once per year be a lot simpler?


Not for me  Rate is compounded daily , so if they will keep 3% you exceed CDIC limit by about $1,000


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## birdman

Duration mismatch can be effectively managed through derivatives and other tools available to financial institutions and details of this are contained in the notes accompanying the financial statements for the company and all financial institutions. As I have no interest in the company I did not review all the notes but I believe the info is there if you wish to try to interpret it.


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## humble_pie

article says that Equitable Bank's CEO is fully aware of how fast hot money can move.

_" If the EQ Bank savings account rate is lowered at some point, [CEO Andrew] Moor said he hopes his firm can establish an attractive and sustainable replacement that will limit the constant movement of a certain segment of savings from bank to bank in search of the highest savings rate of the moment.

" 'We really want to try and change that behavior. What we want is to offer a product that people don’t have to be constantly looking and checking to see what the rate is,' he said."_

meanwhile the CIBC says that canadians are currently hoarding $750 billion in low-interest accounts at the big 5 chartered banks. 

can the upstart online banks dislodge those 750 billion dollars & send them on a rampage across canada every 3 months, sniffing out the highest interest short-term promo?

lol one is reminded of a truffle hunt. In the Perigord & in northern italy, they use pigs - wild boars, actually - to hunt for the rare, precious & pungent fruiting fungi.


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## humble_pie

.
black truffles contain anandamide, a marijuana-like psychoactive ingredient known as the "bliss molecule," which excites pigs, dogs & humans, driving them inexorably to search out & snaffle up the rare fruiting fungus.
.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...eates-marijuana-like-high-humans-animals.html

.


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## Synergy

Wishful thinking! Let the games continue :biggrin:


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## peterk

Truffles are expensive aren't they? Maybe I should buy some pigs instead of saving in EQ bank... How much does a pig cost, anyways?


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## humble_pie

^^

pigs might be a dime a dozen, the more likely problem is that canada doesn't grow truffles.

peterk u are a soils engineer, no? here's a task for the winter months: get together with an aggie grad, see what kind of soil/climate canadian combo might be able to support growth of the elegant mushroom.

in france, before christmas, they sell a special paté with a truffle embedded in the middle. One year i bought some around 15th december, when it was extremely fresh. It was sublime. There's no describing the taste. Heaven on earth. You could feel the lock/connect in the brain.

eight days later i rushed back to the grocery store to buy more for Xmas day. They still had some for sale. But the taste - & the effect - wasn't the same. The heavenly truffle had lost its magic. It was just an interesting taste in the centre of the paté slice.

i concluded from that experience that truffles have to be fresh, fresh, fresh to deliver the bliss molecule.


----------



## peterk

What a wonderful idea. And it might just fit right in with my dream to grow/drink wine in southern BC all day long. Just have to find the right forest and soil for my truffles and pigs. This will tie directly in with my love of elegant French food and bacon, also.

I've never actually eaten a truffle before, though, let alone a fresh one.


----------



## donald

Wonder how long it will take for 1 of the big 5s to say:who is going to buy this irritant...if it lives awhile


----------



## humble_pie

^^

what good taste you are developing.

i like your plan to visit vancouver island in may, too. Few other tourists around, the season all fresh, new, shiny & fragrant like the flowers, hôteliers, sommeliers & garçons all waiting to look after you, it's a perfect time of year.

i hope you'll stay overnight in Tofino. It might be chilly, there might even be a storm at sea, so bundle up.


----------



## Mechanic

3% sounds not too bad. I think I will jump on the bandwagon, one for the wife and one for me. That's 6k/yr in interest, which is about $4.5k more than the bank pays us right now on that portion, I can always transfer it back if they cut it too low for my liking. I know you can make a lot more in dividends and I have lots invested in quite a few companies and funds, the problem is that the dividends are less than the capital losses if I were to sell the various holdings. 3% return with guaranteed principal from a small bank is probably worth a little diversification and if Tangerine jumps on it, maybe I'll do the same there too.


----------



## Mechanic

That was easy. 2 accounts opened and 2 small cheques deposited via their app. Says we should have accounts in 5 days. Will put more in at that time.


----------



## Barwelle

Mechanic... don't be surprised if it takes longer. 5 days for me turned into 18 days.


----------



## Mechanic

Barwelle said:


> Mechanic... don't be surprised if it takes longer. 5 days for me turned into 18 days.


Thanks for the heads up. No rush anyway. A bigger concern is how to get 100k into each as I see they have limits on eft's and cheques. I may have to phone them. I like that their services are nicely priced too


----------



## humble_pie

wondering how the truffle hunters will be able to put up with these delays - 5 days, 18 days - when it comes time to withdraw the funds?


----------



## NorthernRaven

humble_pie said:


> wondering how the truffle hunters will be able to put up with these delays - 5 days, 18 days - when it comes time to withdraw the funds?


It shouldn't affect subsequent transactions, but if it does, they've bought a pig in a poke...


----------



## gibor365

NorthernRaven said:


> It shouldn't affect subsequent transactions, but if it does, they've bought a pig in a poke...


It shouldn't, as all other transactions you will be doing online


----------



## AMABILE

TERRIBLE SERVICE !!!!!!!
my account was activated to-day 5 days after cashing 
my cheque ( as promised ) - but no welcome e-mail
tried to transfer 100k- NO WAY - exceeds $30k limit
also they didn't send me a passcode to complete the transaction
after holding for over 45 minutes, the csr proceeded to send me a passcode
and she completed it for me.


----------



## Synergy

To be expected - growing pains. Tangerine had similar limits when they first started. I always had to call in. EQ has the best rate in town and I'm happy to work through some of thier growing pains. The 2 reps I spoke with over the phone where very nice, helpful, quick, etc.


----------



## donald

This seems to be a case smart money vs the 'majority'
Makes me think buy the dip here because a base is in place
whenever everyone says the hell with this gimmick and pour out when smart going looking to trim
anybody think the same?
Good sign people are flocking and have flocked away from equities
or maybe i am wrong dead wrong


----------



## peterk

Haven't got the welcome email either, but just logged into the account and it's now active .


----------



## AMABILE

my transfer transaction was done at 6pm to-day
just received my welcome e-mail at 11.45 pm


----------



## Synergy

donald said:


> This seems to be a case smart money vs the 'majority'
> Makes me think buy the dip here because a base is in place
> whenever everyone says the hell with this gimmick and pour out when smart going looking to trim
> anybody think the same?
> Good sign people are flocking and have flocked away from equities
> or maybe i am wrong dead wrong


Likely a 50% probability you are correct :biggrin:

Low interest rates, bond yields, GIC rates, etc. are a few reasons investors flock to HISA's for some of their fixed income allocation. I think the average investor is going down with the ship and haven't flocked away just yet.


----------



## Soon Forget

AMABILE said:


> also they didn't send me a passcode to complete the transaction


Can you explain this passcode? Please tell me we don't need to be emailed a code every time we deposit or withdraw money.

Maybe just over a certain dollar amount they use a passcode?


----------



## donald

What do you think is harder right now(emotionally?)
Buying this offer or canadian equites lol
i know what i pick 
this is like the reversal that happened in the us market a few yrs back lol


----------



## peterk

Soon Forget said:


> Can you explain this passcode? Please tell me we don't need to be emailed a code every time we deposit or withdraw money.
> 
> Maybe just over a certain dollar amount they use a passcode?


It think it is just a one time thing at the first sign-in to verify that it is your phone/email that's registered. I used my phone so they sent me a passcode by text.


----------



## GreatLaker

peterk said:


> It think it is just a one time thing at the first sign-in to verify that it is your phone/email that's registered. I used my phone so they sent me a passcode by text.


I never got the initial email with the link to verify my account. So I have an account, but cannot log in to it. Email and phone support unable to resolve the issue. See my post here: http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/66234-Equitable-Bank?p=993290&viewfull=1#post993290


----------



## Synergy

My account was open this evening - within 5 days of depositing my cheque. No issues and I've already received some interest :biggrin:

I like their website - clean and simple.


----------



## gibor365

GreatLaker said:


> I never got the initial email with the link to verify my account. So I have an account, but cannot log in to it. Email and phone support unable to resolve the issue. See my post here: http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/66234-Equitable-Bank?p=993290&viewfull=1#post993290


My mom had similar problem, her email address [email protected], but we entered by mistake [email protected] . Obviously she didn't get email invitation and we were unable to xcreate new account with correct address.
So, we contacted EQ via chat and rep sent enquiry to support team and in 2 days that was fixed. 

P.S. When i'm talking over the phone with EQ, I have impression that all their call centre are new immigrants (maybe Syrian refugees )....yesterday rep complained that their team is very small and this is why I needed to wait for answer for a long time ...a and chat is unavailable as there too many phone calls


----------



## Userkare

I used their Android app to deposit the cheque. That was on Monday, and I haven't yet seen the funds come out of the account that the cheque was drawn on. I thought that using the app would be faster than sending a cheque in the mail. I can be patient if I know that the cheque was accepted, but never having used an app to deposit a cheque before, I'm not 100% certain it worked.

If anyone used the app, how long did it take for the funds to be withdrawn from the account on the cheque?


----------



## peterk

^ Took mine 2 weeks Userkare.


----------



## olivaw

I submitted my cheque using the IOS App on Saturday last. Nothing for me yet either. 

ETA: My cheque was processed late on Friday.


----------



## Userkare

peterk said:


> ^ Took mine 2 weeks Userkare.


Thanks for the info.

Wow, that's long! I've opened accounts where I've mailed the cheque and it took less time. Oh well, guess a 3% deal is worth the wait.


----------



## Itchy54

Finally got an email saying my cheque was deposited and will get my welcome email in five days. Weird because hubby's cheque cleared before mine and he hasn't received any confirmation....
I am happy to finally hear something.


----------



## AMABILE

log into your accounts 5 business days
from the date cheques cleared without
receiving any e-mails and you should be good to go.


----------



## olivaw

I received the following email late this evening. It was five business days after I sent the cheque via the APP. 




> Dear xxx,
> 
> Your cheque has been processed and you will receive your welcome email in 5 business days.
> 
> We truly appreciate your business and we look forward to helping you reach your savings goals.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> EQ Bank


----------



## gibor365

Tip.
Maximum 1 time transfer you can do is 30K, however you may do multiple transfers... I did 4 today to transfer in 96K


----------



## AMABILE

you can also call them (if you're willing to hold )
and they will do it for you.


----------



## GreatLaker

gibor said:


> My mom had similar problem, her email address [email protected], but we entered by mistake [email protected] . Obviously she didn't get email invitation and we were unable to xcreate new account with correct address.
> So, we contacted EQ via chat and rep sent enquiry to support team and in 2 days that was fixed.


Thanks Gibor, I have followed up by phone and email but so far no success... I will keep bugging them.


----------



## gibor365

AMABILE said:


> you can also call them (if you're willing to hold )
> and they will do it for you.


I actually called and rep told me just to do several transactions and it worked.... to make 3-4 transfers takes 3-4 min, to hold on the phone 30-40 min


----------



## pwm

My account is open today, 5 business days after the cheque was cashed. I entered my first transfer from TD bank. Just out of curiosity, for anyone who has done a transfer into EQ, how long has it taken to see the transfer complete?


----------



## gibor365

I did 5-6 transfers and have seen it at EQ right away.... 5 bus days money will be on hold, but EQ rep said that I start getting inrerest same day I did transfers


----------



## BC Eddie

Their policy states 5 business days for $1500 or less, 8 days for over $1500


----------



## gibor365

Strange thing with EQ .... I transferred several times from CIBC and YD on Monday, and yes, I've seen those money in EQ on Monday, however, EOD today, I still don't see money were deducted from our CIBC and TD accounts .... it's strange, as with PT and Tang I'd see it next bus day...
Is somebody has similar experience?


----------



## Synergy

^ It took about 3 business days before I seen the amounts withdrawn from my TD account. I believe I recall reading somewhere that it could take up to 5 business days??


----------



## pwm

I put in a transfer from TD bank on Monday, Feb 08 and another the next day, Tuesday. Both show up in Easyweb at TD just now at 21:00 Central time. So that's 2 days for the first transfer and 1 day for the second. I'm pleased.


----------



## gardner

I got the email that my account was set up yesterday and fired over my first $20K from TD. Waiting to see when it will go through.


----------



## gentlepuppies

I just put 10K into my EQ account, but they say it'll take 5 business days. Is that standard? Will it take just as long to pull money out?


----------



## olivaw

My transfer from TD appeared in my EQ balance immediately but there is a hold on the funds. It took one day for the funds to be withdrawn from my TD account.


----------



## Userkare

So far, for me, their customer service is pathetic. Phoning gets a busy signal; online chat always says "no agents online"; and emails go unanswered for 5+ days. I'm starting to regret starting this process to open an account there. 3% seems enticing, but by the time I actually get to transfer any significant amount, how long will it earn that 3% before they align with all the other HISAs?


----------



## Mechanic

Yes I'm not too sure how long I want to put up with their useless service either for 3%. Wife and I opened a couple of accounts, mine opened about 10 days later but hers says awaiting deposit and when I tried to resend it says cheque already processed. You can't get through on the phone and emails it says "something went wrong" lol. Figured the deposit problem was because "her" signature wasn't on the first deposit cheque, so easy fix, deposited another small cheque but it's like you are on your own to figure it out. I see they changed the max account size now too. So if you open your account after Feb 21 max account size drops to $100k from $500k. Obviously they have had way more accounts opened with larger deposits than they expected. A;though I'm sure your money will be safe, I wouldn't put any in if you are likely to need it out in a hurry. YMMV


----------



## gibor365

> So if you open your account after Feb 21 max account size drops to $100k from $500k. Obviously they have had way more accounts opened with larger deposits than they expected


 i can deposit up to 500K, but in any case I don't want to exceed 100K CDIC insurance


----------



## Userkare

Mechanic said:


> Yes I'm not too sure how long I want to put up with their useless service either for 3%. Wife and I opened a couple of accounts, mine opened about 10 days later but hers says awaiting deposit and when I tried to resend it says cheque already processed. You can't get through on the phone and emails it says "something went wrong" lol.


They finally answered my email after 11 days with a generic "you must use Android or IOS" response. I just uninstalled and re-installed the app, and scanned a new cheque. This time it worked differently than it did the first time I tried. At that time the app just closed with no confirmation, this time it gave me a confirmation.

So, 3 weeks after my first attempt, I am back to waiting for the cheque to be deposited and a welcome letter. :upset:


----------



## Mechanic

All cleared up. They even sent my wife an email to call and were extremely helpful with the deposited cheque issue. One account was all good and the other is still in process. Huge response to their 3%, way more than they anticipated. I got in under the wire for the account size but still sticking with CDIC limits anyway.


----------



## gibor365

> I got in under the wire for the account size but still sticking with CDIC limits anyway.


 I'm just curious how many people not scared to deposit more than CDIC insurance?!


----------



## gardner

I would go over by 20K-30K or so without any worry. Equitable is a fairly reliable entity. Their bond debt is investment grade and I would think that deposits would be more secure. Much more than that I think the calculus for me would be "would I hold a single bond for this amount?"


----------



## gibor365

gardner said:


> I would go over by 20K-30K or so without any worry. Equitable is a fairly reliable entity. Their bond debt is investment grade and I would think that deposits would be more secure. Much more than that I think the calculus for me would be "would I hold a single bond for this amount?"


Until mid-June I have 2% in Tangerine or buying 2.2% GIC in PT.... so the difference is not too big... after Tangerine promo , if they won't renew it and will pay regular 0.8% , I may exceed 100K in EQ (assuming they pay still 3% or close to it)


----------



## AMABILE

so i transferred the interest only that i earned for february
to my cibc account- very easy to do and appeared
on my account in 2 business days
ditto for my tangerine interest


----------



## pwm

That's good to know AMABILE.

They have had such a huge influx of new accounts that they have now changed the "Open New Account" button on their Website to "Reserve a Spot". They apologize for slow service and say they are hiring more staff to keep up with the demand.


----------



## Barwelle

That's quite something. 

I opened both Zag and EQ accounts... I gotta say, I find the design and layout of EQ Bank's website is much more functional and professional looking than Zag's. Plus, EQ allows 5 free interac e-transfers per month. Zag doesn't provide interac e-transfers, even for a fee. Recently needed money quickly, and I took it out of EQ because I could have it in my main account within an hour of initiating the transfer - just had to make an interac e-transfer to myself. With Zag, they hold it within the account for two days, plus the 3-5 business days to transfer, plus however long my bank would have had a hold on it... The only issue is the e-transfer has a daily max of $2500, and there's a weekly and monthly max as well.

The benefit to Zag at this point is that we know how long the high rate is going to last. It is not known how long EQ will hold that 3% rate.


----------



## Mechanic

The sales pitch for EQ said the 3% rate was for 6 months.


----------



## RBull

Mechanic said:


> The sales pitch for EQ said the 3% rate was for 6 months.


What sales pitch?


----------



## Barwelle

Mechanic said:


> The sales pitch for EQ said the 3% rate was for 6 months.


Got a source for that? I haven't heard anything about a defined end date for the 3% rate... and some quick googling just now didn't turn up anything.


----------



## Spudd

I seem to recall they were pitching it as a long term rate, saying it wasn't a teaser like those other banks. But I doubt it will last.


----------



## Mechanic

RBull said:


> What sales pitch?


My mistake, sorry. Rather than sit around and watch to see how long it lasts (like I have a tendency to do), I decided to jump on it while available. Only got in a few days before month end so interest was only about $50. Ongoing will be around $500 a month for as long as they pay 3%. I can always transfer the funds if they cut it. The cash was just sitting in another account getting 0.6% before.


----------



## 319905

No problems here ... fingers crossed ... and I take advantage of the 5 no fee (was going to say free but they must cost somehow ... maybe the interest rate would be 3.00001 without them) interac transfers per month ... nice :listening_headphone


----------



## gardner

> EQ Bank puts weekly caps on new sign-ups for 3% savings account
> 
> Although the rate remains in place, EQ Bank is now asking people to fill out a form to reserve their spots in line


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/eq-bank-savings-rate-1.3480704


----------



## olivaw

EQ Bank worked fine for me so my wife opened an account with a $1 cheque. Her dollar was withdrawn from TD and deposited to EQ. The account is accessible online so everything appeared fine until ...... 

She received a generic email from EQ today stating that they could not process her cheque and open her account due to an unspecified problem The account is already open so she decided to give them a call to ask about the email. After an hour on hold she hung up and decided to try the online system. The online system put her on hold in an online chat session until she gave up. 

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, the service is terrible. Some account openings work well. Others don't. When a problem arises, it is difficult to obtain a resolution because their support systems are overloaded.


----------



## PrairieGal

I tried to open an account on the weekend and had to go on a waitlist.


----------



## peterk

Just got $25 for free deposited from EQ into my account because it was my birthday! That's awfully nice of them.


----------



## Numbersman61

PrairieGal said:


> I tried to open an account on the weekend and had to go on a waitlist.


If it's that difficult to open an account, can you imagine the difficulty in closing the account or accessing the funds?


----------



## AltaRed

That's not fair. As has been well documented, EQ was flooded with applications due to their 3% promo. They had the decency, finally, to put potential applicants on a wait list, rather than taking applications, and then taking weeks to process them. Random closing of accounts and accessing money is completely different from these initial pains.

Disclosure: I have no accounts, planned or otherwise, with EQ.


----------



## Soon Forget

Numbersman61 said:


> If it's that difficult to open an account, can you imagine the difficulty in closing the account or accessing the funds?


This week I made my first withdrawal from EQ. I did the order online around 5pm, and the cash was in my TD chequing account *the next morning.* That's 1 business day faster than Tangerine used to be.


----------



## 319905

^ And depending on how much cash you need, the 5 free interacs/month feature is nice ... $500 from EQ to PCF this morning, a Saturday ... 29 minutes.


----------



## gibor365

Just curious if anybody exceed CDIC 100K insurance limit in EQ? I just got free cash from some matured GICs and tempted to increase EQ holding to 160K, but a bit scared.....What can be signs that EQ has problems?


----------



## olivaw

I transfer CDIC max of 100K to EQ. I'll also open Zagg 2 yr GIC at 2.5%. Maybe if I feel crazy I will put 100K in CT Bank 5 yr GIC too..


----------



## NorthernRaven

Unless you opened your EQ Bank account before February 21, they have an account maximum of $100K (accounts opened before then had a $500K max). Accumulated interest can go over the max, but you won't be able to do a transfer in that exceeds it.

Personally, I can't imagine any sort of trouble that something like Equitable could get into (that didn't involve time-travelling alien lizards) that would cause loss of uninsured deposits out of the blue. But everyone has to determine their own comfort with things like deposit insurance. If in doubt, don't. The difference on $60K between EQ at 3% and Zag at 2.5% is $25/month - not worth losing any sleep over.


----------



## gibor365

NorthernRaven said:


> Unless you opened your EQ Bank account before February 21, they have an account maximum of $100K (accounts opened before then had a $500K max). Accumulated interest can go over the max, but you won't be able to do a transfer in that exceeds it.
> 
> Personally, I can't imagine any sort of trouble that something like Equitable could get into (that didn't involve time-travelling alien lizards) that would cause loss of uninsured deposits out of the blue. But everyone has to determine their own comfort with things like deposit insurance. If in doubt, don't. The difference on $60K between EQ at 3% and Zag at 2.5% is $25/month - not worth losing any sleep over.


My account was opened Feb 4, so I should be able to deposit more than 100K. I already have accounts in PT, PCF, Tangerine and EQ as well as CIBC and TD. So, I wouldn't like to open one more in Zag... Except EQ, the best rate I can get , in Tangerine 2% until mid June (have no idea what they will gve me after.... the base rate just 0.8%) or 2 years GIC in PT for 2.2%... So the difference is more than $25/month...
There is another option...to "borrow" my money to my mom or our son, who also have EQ accounts with a lot of room (up to 100K)... Just not sure if such transfers can "attract" CRA?!
P.S. Too bad that EQ is not offering Joint accounts or TFSA/RRSP ones


----------



## Mechanic

I just stayed with the 100k limit but could have up to 500k as the account opened before the 100k limit was imposed. Wifes acct got opened after the deadline and could only put in 100k anyway. I see they gave us around 250 each at the end of the month so nice bonus till they decide to lower the rate. Then they will no doubt be overwhelmed again....with withdrawals.


----------



## Userkare

gibor said:


> There is another option...to "borrow" my money to my mom or our son, who also have EQ accounts with a lot of room (up to 100K)... Just not sure if such transfers can "attract" CRA?!
> P.S. Too bad that EQ is not offering Joint accounts or TFSA/RRSP ones


I believe, or at least it was the case some years ago, CRA would say that the income tax is payable by the 'source' of the funds. So if you 'loaned' someone in a lower tax bracket a lump sum, you would pay the tax on the interest. This might be avoided by actually having a repayment schedule and show that the 'loan' was being re-payed - not just trying to evade taxes. 

I'm not a tax expert, but CRA complained about interest that my minor kid received in a junior savings account; greedy bastards. The "baby bonus" was being deposited there, and there were lump sums on his birthday and Christmas from his grandparent outside of Canada. They accepted that explanation.


+1 on the EQ joint accounts and TFSA. If they don't offer these soon, I'll probably transfer our PC TFSAs to Zag with a 2.5% 2yr GIC.


----------



## NorthernRaven

Userkare said:


> I believe, or at least it was the case some years ago, CRA would say that the income tax is payable by the 'source' of the funds. So if you 'loaned' someone in a lower tax bracket a lump sum, you would pay the tax on the interest. This might be avoided by actually having a repayment schedule and show that the 'loan' was being re-payed - not just trying to evade taxes.
> 
> I'm not a tax expert, but CRA complained about interest that my minor kid received in a junior savings account; greedy bastards. The "baby bonus" was being deposited there, and there were lump sums on his birthday and Christmas from his grandparent outside of Canada. They accepted that explanation.


There'd be no need for an official "loan" if the originating family member was willing to pay income tax on the portion of interest generated by their money. Would get messy since CRA attribution would be to partly to the lending member, partly to the account holder if they had their own money in as well, but the total T-slip would be issued to the recipient member.

A documented loan would bypass the attribution and let the recipient pay the taxes, but there is a minimum interest rate (1% right now?) that must be "paid" to the lender. For a child recipient you would need a trust set up. A lot of work unless a fairly hefty sum is involved.


----------



## gibor365

> but CRA complained about interest that my minor kid received in a junior savings account; greedy bastards.


 How old was your kid? Before my son started university, I also had for him "junior saving account" in ING, but I was declaring all interest earned on my tax return...didn't want to deal with CRA...

Now my son is not really "junior", he's 20 y.o. , student and work every year in his coop semester...so his T4s every year are about 12-14K.... I just not sure if I can give him "gift" (for good marks in University or B-day present) , lets say 10 or 15K, so he would pay taxes on interest earned?! 
Also, in June, his joint with our daughter RESP GIC (aroung 28K) will mature, and I don't think CRA gonna have problem if this withdrawal (even though it's PSE) will be deposited to his account...
I;m just not sure how CRA gonna know if some amount got transferred to his account...


----------



## Itchy54

Well, happy birthday to me! I just logged into my EQ bank account to do a transfer and noticed they gifted me $25 for my birthday.
Thanks EQ bank.


----------



## Userkare

gibor said:


> How old was your kid? Before my son started university, I also had for him "junior saving account" in ING, but I was declaring all interest earned on my tax return...didn't want to deal with CRA....... I;m just not sure how CRA gonna know if some amount got transferred to his account...


My kid was pre-teen when we got the CRA letter. If I remember ( it was early 1990's ) the bank had sent a T5, and we reported that income as his - no tax payable, as it was his only income. The amount wasn't really all that much, and I can't imagine why some pencil pushing a-hole at CRA would even question it. Next, they'll be asking parents to issue T4s to their 10 yr old kids for their allowance money. The explanation of baby bonus deposits plus out-of-country grandparent's monetary gifts ( about $200/yr ) seemed to be acceptable; we didn't hear from them again. Interest earned from a new account (at EQ) with $100K, that magically appeared in the hands of a spouse or minor child, might raise a red flag somewhere. I suspect that even the 'repayable loan' to a spouse or child might be rejected; CRA has heard it all before. 

As I said, I'm not a tax expert; these are the kinds of questions that you need to ask someone with tax rule experience.


----------



## gibor365

> As I said, I'm not a tax expert; these are the kinds of questions that you need to ask someone with tax rule experience.


 imho, no tax expert will help there ...we're in mercy of specific clerk from CRA


----------



## pwm

Itchy54 said:


> Well, happy birthday to me! I just logged into my EQ bank account to do a transfer and noticed they gifted me $25 for my birthday.
> Thanks EQ bank.


You are the second person to receive this $25 birthday gift. Amazing! I hope I get one too.

It got me thinking however, and I'm wondering how they would know one's birthday. Was DOB on the application? I can't remember.


----------



## Eclectic12

Userkare said:


> My kid was pre-teen when we got the CRA letter.
> 
> If I remember ( it was early 1990's ) the bank had sent a T5, and we reported that income as his - no tax payable, as it was his only income. The amount wasn't really all that much, and I can't imagine why some pencil pushing a-hole at CRA would even question it ...
> As I said, I'm not a tax expert; these are the kinds of questions that you need to ask someone with tax rule experience.


I seem to recall my tax book from the late 80's matching up to what I've read in more recent articles. Where the funds come from the parent, the CG is reported by the child and interest/income is attributed back to the parent.

I'd guess it was from people in the past listing their income as their child's but haven't looked into it.


Cheers


----------



## pwm

The rate will drop to 2.25% on April 18.

http://business.financialpost.com/n...ng-its-eye-popping-3-interest-savings-account


----------



## AltaRed

I am not at all surprised. They were leaving way too many basis points on the table. They've acheived what they wanted.....recognition.


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## pwm

Yes, I knew 3% wouldn't last long, but I expected the reduced rate would still be very good, which it is.


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## AltaRed

pwm said:


> Yes, I knew 3% wouldn't last long, but I expected the reduced rate would still be very good, which it is.


I think the new 2.25% is to 'toy' with Zag Bank for which the 2.5% HISA promo ends June 1st. 0.25% is not enough for a majority of savers to move, especially given June 1 is lurking. 

I expect Zag to introduce a new 'promo' at perhaps 2% give or take a few tenths...and maybe match EQ's 2.25%. The crystal ball will clear in June.


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## gibor365

I expected it, but thought it's gonna happen in June/July...
Now exceeding 100K doesn't make sense at all, as I can buy 2y GIC at 2.2% in PT , 0.05% doesn't worth the risk..



> The crystal ball will clear in June.


 I expect that Tangerine (and maybe PCF) will also come to play and will do new promo ... They couldn't match 3% , but probably can 2.25% to attract some money back


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## 0xCC

My mortgage is up for renewal and I am getting rates in the 2.04%-2.59% range for 1-4 year terms. PC Financial is offering a 2 year 2.24% rate right now.
How would they be able to make any money by giving non-locked in (i.e. not GICs) deposits a better than 2% rate? I know there was discussion about how Eq bank is making money on their 3% (now not 3%) but overall I'm not clear on how these online banks are actually making a profit on these deposits when they are offering better than 2%.


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## AltaRed

As has been suggested, they are targeting higher risk clients, who pay more for their mortgages and consumer loans.


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## Eclectic12

^^^

Makes sense for Tangerine which I believe is owned by Scotia.

For players like CT or PCF - isn't there also the possibility of using the money to fund part of the expansions?
Or are they able to borrow at 2% from other banks?


Cheers


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## 0xCC

Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been.

What I don't understand is how the expectation that the "mainstream" (i.e. PC Financial and Tangerine) online banks would be able to offer a greater than 2% rate fits with those same banks actually being able to remain a going concern.


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## peterk

Well that's disappointing. All new funds going into Zag for now I guess.


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## AltaRed

peterk said:


> Well that's disappointing. All new funds going into Zag for now I guess.


For 47 days?


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## peterk

Might as well. I'm going to have to move it all out of Zag in 47 days anyways, so I'll start putting new money in there for now instead of EQ. I've got about a 60%/40% split of my cash in EQ/Zag currently.


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## Terminator

Wow...I decided to move some cash from a PCF account that was only earning 0.8% to this new EQ account, and I have been put on a "wait list". Apparently they severely under estimated the demand for this savings account. It'll be interesting to see how long the wait is...


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## Karlhungus

I'm shocked at how much cash everyone holds. Why not have it in the markets ?


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## olivaw

^ Many older and retired folks should keep a healthy portion of their portfolio in cash and equivalents.


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## 0xCC

Also people may be holding cash as a percentage of their overall portfolio. I don't think it is unreasonable to have 5%-10% of a portfolio in cash and once the portfolio gets big enough that 5%-10% looks like "a lot of cash".


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## AltaRed

0xCC said:


> Also people may be holding cash as a percentage of their overall portfolio. I don't think it is unreasonable to have 5%-10% of a portfolio in cash and once the portfolio gets big enough that 5%-10% looks like "a lot of cash".


Agreed. Once people are retired and in withdrawal mode, it is 'healthy' to have a sizeable cash component. I look at it in terms of dollars rather than percentage of portfolio. I have enough HISA (or maturing GIC) cash on hand to handle the greater of: 1) one year of base load expenses, or 2) to do that expensive trip, buy that expensive car, or do a reno on the house. That way, one avoids tapping into capital if/when it is depressed due to uncooperative equity or bond markets. Still, anything much over the CDIC limit would seem excessive to me.


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## NorthernRaven

Also, note that the very best 5-year GIC rate is 2.5%. That same rate has been available from Zag in a demand account for almost a year; no need to lock in your money. For those willing to do a little transferring, that can be juiced to up to 3% depending on what promo rates you take advantage of. For money in non-registered accounts, it may be worth holding off on parts of a GIC ladder. And with bond ETFs having fairly low YTMs, those without fairly strong views on future interest rates and capital gains there might have some of their bond allocation liquid right now as well.


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## gibor365

> Also people may be holding cash as a percentage of their overall portfolio.





> Agreed. Once people are retired and in withdrawal mode, it is 'healthy' to have a sizeable cash component.


We're not in withdrawal mode for at least next 5 years, but we hold about 40% of all available money is HISA/GIC... Using different promos in online banks I was able to manage on average about 2.4-2.5% interest in last 2-3 years.


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## olivaw

^ My wife and I are retired and we keep about 45% in cash and equivalents. We're considering selling our bond ETFs and putting it all in insured GICs and Savings accounts. If we can earn 2.4%-2.5% then we'll be happy.

EQ drops to 2.25% on April 18th but we will still leave money there for a few months.


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## gardner

pwm said:


> The rate will drop to 2.25% on April 18.


So the 3% lasted, what, 3 months? Kind of puts lie to their claim...



> There’s no introductory period, no limited time promotional rate


.. which is still posted on their web site next to the notice that the rate is dropping. Obviously 3% couldn't last forever, but three months is very much a "limited time promotional rate" no matter how you slice it. I wonder if anyone is making an advertising practices complaint.


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## AltaRed

gardner said:


> Obviously 3% couldn't last forever, but three months is very much a "limited time promotional rate" no matter how you slice it. I wonder if anyone is making an advertising practices complaint.


There is nothing to complain about. There never was a guarantee. Might be bad PR but if there is nothing in writing otherwise, buyer beware.


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## gibor365

> which is still posted on their web site next to the notice that the rate is dropping


 3 days left


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## Userkare

Yeah, I'm disappointed that the 3% didn't last for so long. Maybe they didn't expect the number of customers so quickly, who knows.

In any case, 2.25% is not too shabby, but I'll feel no qualms about moving the bulk of my deposit to any bank that offers me a higher rate, even if for a short term promotion. I'm ready to play the Musical Chairs HISA game. If they want to keep their depositors , they'll have to make sure to match any promo offer by other banks.


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## gibor365

For now I'll keep some cash there, unless Tangerine or PCF have another promo with higher rates


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## Terminator

Terminator said:


> Wow...I decided to move some cash from a PCF account that was only earning 0.8% to this new EQ account, and I have been put on a "wait list". Apparently they severely under estimated the demand for this savings account. It'll be interesting to see how long the wait is...


3 weeks later and still no response from them. It's not looking good lol


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## PrairieGal

I was originally waitlisted, but I did eventually get an account. Not sure how long it took.


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## pwm

I just checked my account to record the monthly interest deposit so I could update quicken with the number, and discovered that I got a *$25.00 deposit on my birthday!* I had intended to look for that but completely forgot about it. Nice friendly touch. I can't imagine that happening at any other bank.


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## ian

We applied at EQ Got the account about 45 days later. Emailed them about joint accounts. They are coming but not sure when.


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## pwm

Yes, I also need this to be a joint account ASAP. If you have any new info regarding this issue I would appreciate it if you would update this thread.


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## ian

EQ have a top end limit of $100K on each account. Which is fine since it match CDIC. We got the paperwork for Hubert but have not done anything about it. We really like Canada Direct Financial. Good service, fast internet transfers.


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## gibor365

ian said:


> EQ have a top end limit of $100K on each account. Which is fine since it match CDIC. We got the paperwork for Hubert but have not done anything about it. We really like Canada Direct Financial. Good service, fast internet transfers.


Now I like Oaken  2.75% for 18 mo GIC is amazing for todays rate... and you can have joint GIC, so 300K ealisy covered with CDIC insurance for couple


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## GizelleGizelle

what's up with that EQ bank's inerest rate? It used to be $3, now it's like $2.2. What the hell?????????????


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## olivaw

EQ dropped the rate a month or two ago. It still beats what you can get at other institutions, unless you go for a GIC.


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## pwm

Effective today their rate has dropped to 2.00% from 2.25%. I suppose one could see it coming, but it's still not bad compared to others. Achieva for example is 1.70%.


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## AMABILE

transferred the interest earned for august on sept 1st
credited to my cibc account sept 2nd
that's pretty good service


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## pwm

Transfers both directions work great and are very fast, but one thing I've noticed is that when you transfer to EQ, the "Balance" shows the new money immediately, but it takes a very long time for the "Available" number to show the new "Balance" number. I did a transfer on Oct 04, and the "Available" number has still not changed.

Not that I really care; it's just an observation. I wonder why it takes so long?


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## NorthernRaven

pwm said:


> Transfers both directions work great and are very fast, but one thing I've noticed is that when you transfer to EQ, the "Balance" shows the new money immediately, but it takes a very long time for the "Available" number to show the new "Balance" number. I did a transfer on Oct 04, and the "Available" number has still not changed.
> 
> Not that I really care; it's just an observation. I wonder why it takes so long?


The "Available" number doesn't change until the 5-business-day clearing period has passed. Other places like Hubert also do this - you get interest on the "Balance", but can only work with the "Available" (transfer out, etc).


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## AltaRed

Zag is similar from what I can tell.


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## pwm

The "Available" number is gone today which is 5 business days since Oct 04. You are correct.


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## pwm

Still no joint accounts at EQ. I sent them another message and got the same reply saying it will happen some day. This is disappointing. I don't like the idea of having any account in my name only. Maybe if everyone on this forum with an EQ account sent them a message asking for joint accounts it would help add some urgency to their plans.


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## like_to_retire

pwm said:


> Still no joint accounts at EQ. I sent them another message and got the same reply saying it will happen some day. This is disappointing. I don't like the idea of having any account in my name only. Maybe if everyone on this forum with an EQ account sent them a message asking for joint accounts it would help add some urgency to their plans.


Reading this creeps me out a bit. I remember when Home Capital had those problems last year and that created fears that alternative lenders like Equitable would suffer the same situation since they both primarily raise funds via savings accounts and GICs, and then they loan those funds out, and make money to the tune of a couple of percentage points between what they pay out in interest to savers, and what they charge the borrowers. 

Heck, TDDI won't even list Home Capital in its GIC list, so I tend to pucker up when I buy an Equitable GIC. I wish I didn't have to resort to buying GIC's from Equitable, but if you have a rather large allocation to fixed income, and you want to stick to your brokerage account for all GICs, and you don't want more than $100K per company, then you need to use companies like Equitable. 

I know Equitable is large, and appear to be about the ninth-largest bank by assets in Canada, and its GICs are CDIC, but does anyone feel weird about handing $100K over to this group? Or do you say that CDIC insured is CDIC insured and that's that.

After all this time, it seems like respected member PWM trusts them with his funds. It's just that I have another GIC coming due soon and the best rate at TDDI for companies that I don't already have $100K in GICs is with Equitable and buying it would put me just above $100K for Equitable GIC's (it's a constant balancing act), so that would work out great.

Do we trust them?

ltr


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## AltaRed

I don't have a 'real' issue with EQ specifically due to CDIC, but I'd buy elsewhere if I could within 2-5 basis points difference.


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## like_to_retire

AltaRed said:


> I don't have a 'real' issue with EQ specifically due to CDIC, but I'd buy elsewhere if I could within 2-5 basis points difference.


Yeah, the problem with TDDI is that they only have about 12 banks that they deal with, so that limits you to $1.2 million. 

I don't mind going a bit over the $100K with each bank, but I sure think its time they re-visit that insurance limit and perhaps change it something like $250K, because $100K is way too low. When you get down to that 12th bank at TDDI they pay 2.5%, where the highest is EQ and HomEquity at 3.23%. Quite a difference.

ltr


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## Koogie

like_to_retire said:


> Yeah, the problem with TDDI is that they only have about 12 banks that they deal with, so that limits you to $1.2 million.
> 
> I don't mind going a bit over the $100K with each bank, but I sure think its time they re-visit that insurance limit and perhaps change it something like $250K, because $100K is way too low. When you get down to that 12th bank at TDDI they pay 2.5%, where the highest is EQ and HomEquity at 3.23%. Quite a difference.
> 
> ltr


?? EQ is at 3.50% if you buy directly.


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## like_to_retire

Koogie said:


> ?? EQ is at 3.50% if you buy directly.


Sure, but the convenience of having all your investments including HISAs at one broker costs money. Nothing is free.

ltr


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## AltaRed

Koogie said:


> ?? EQ is at 3.50% if you buy directly.


The convenience of being consolidated at one brokerage far outweighs proliferation of accounts for me (and for my eventual POA when I become incompetent). It is likely not a matter of 'if', but when and I am touching 70 when those matters start taking on more significance. I've been in the position of being an Attorney and it is no fun dealing with multiple accounts. But we've had that discussion many times before.


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## pwm

It looks like Equitable is in sound financial shape if you put any faith in ratings agencies. There's a new report on Equitable Group (EQB) from Thomson Reuters at TDDI which gives it an overall rating of 8 which is in the top quartile. There are 6 buy and 3 hold recommendations.


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## Koogie

like_to_retire said:


> Sure, but the convenience of having all your investments including HISAs at one broker costs money. Nothing is free.
> ltr


It costs $1,357.00 in this case. Assuming the full CDIC pop is given to EQ. If you were establishing a ladder at current rates, you'd be giving up probably a little north of $5,000 a year.

Seems a high price for convenience to me but as always, YMMV.



AltaRed said:


> But we've had that discussion many times before.


Indeed we have. You'll come around eventually.... lol :very_drunk:


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## like_to_retire

Koogie said:


> It costs $1,357.00 in this case. Assuming the full CDIC pop is given to EQ. If you were establishing a ladder at current rates, you'd be giving up probably a little north of $5,000 a year.
> 
> Seems a high price for convenience to me but as always, YMMV.


The cost to own a GIC at a brokerage is 0.25%, so 1.2 million it would be a $3000 per year hidden fee caused by the spread between broker and source.

There are fees with everything though. Do you own any ETF's? There aren't free. Personally I don't own any, only individual stocks, but you do pay a fee of sorts with individual stocks when you buy and sell within the spread.

Same with real bonds. There's a spread that changes with size and rating. The spread for $5K is far worse than $50K. Costs lower as you purchase larger bonds and will vary with rating. Generally you can assign about half the spread to the buyer and half to the seller. Typical spread for a $5K bond may be $1.25 per $100 face, but can drop to 0.50 per $100 at $50K. So for example, if you hold $20K, five year bonds and the spread is a dollar per $100 face, then you can roughly assume the cost to you at half the spread was 50 cents per 100. If you hold for 5 years until maturity, the cost to you (or your MER) was about 0.10% per year.

There's a cost to everything.

ltr


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## Koogie

Fees associated with purchasing stocks, ETFs and bonds are generally unavoidable. Not so with GICs so it is a spurious comparison. 

But as Alta says, this dance has been done before.


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## AltaRed

There is indeed a cost to everything, but the debate on GICs aside, individual stocks are typically lowest cost as long as one buys in $10k or more lots, and is a 'buy and hold' investor. 

FWIW, I am detecting a trend in financial forums towards simplification especially among investors approaching 70 years of age, or more, as they recognize spending time managing a portfolio becomes more and more a waste of precious remaining quality time on this earth. I can't quite imagine still having a dog's breakfast of accounts by age 80.


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## Koogie

AltaRed said:


> There is indeed a cost to everything, but the debate on GICs aside, individual stocks are typically lowest cost as long as one buys in $10k or more lots, and is a 'buy and hold' investor.


The debate *was* about GICs though so my point remains correct... :subdued:



AltaRed said:


> FWIW, I am detecting a trend in financial forums towards simplification especially among investors approaching 70 years of age, or more, as they recognize spending time managing a portfolio becomes more and more a waste of precious remaining quality time on this earth. I can't quite imagine still having a dog's breakfast of accounts by age 80.


True but this forum doesn't seem to skew as elderly as others. So it is worth pointing out that the "convenience" of losing .25 for investors in their 30s or 40s can add up to a helluva lot of money by the time they hit their wrinkly years. Assuming their FI is in GICs.


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## like_to_retire

Koogie said:


> The debate *was* about GICs though so my point remains correct... :subdued:


But Koogie, remember you have to find a place for all your GIC's under $100K, so if you had $1.2 million to find a home for, you'd need to find 12 of those institutions as you suggest and you'd have to move funds around when they suddenly drop rates because their promotion is over. Does that seem possible to you or at least inconvenient?

ltr


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## Koogie

like_to_retire said:


> But Koogie, remember you have to find a place for all your GIC's under $100K, so if you had $1.2 million to find a home for, you'd need to find 12 of those institutions as you suggest and you'd have to move funds around when they suddenly drop rates because their promotion is over. Does that seem possible to you or at least inconvenient?
> ltr


I have two x 5 year ladders. Total of 10 rungs, 10 institutions. All kept track of in an Excel document that a 5th grader could understand. Total processing time per year.... maybe 5 minutes ? Doesn't seem to onerous to me nor for my POA should I drop dead tomorrow.

I am unsure what you mean about "dropping rates when the promotion is over" Are you confusing GICs with HISAs in that statement ? I'm not one of those people that chases HISA promos or lets Tangerine treat me like a POS, so I can't comment there.


p.s. I write poorly and with little clarity sometimes. I'm not trying to be harsh, just present my point of view. Appreciate your comments as always.


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## like_to_retire

Koogie said:


> I am unsure what you mean about "dropping rates when the promotion is over" Are you confusing GICs with HISAs in that statement ? I'm not one of those people that chases HISA promos or lets Tangerine treat me like a POS, so I can't comment there.


I've noticed that at any given time one institution has the best rates, and then the next time I check that same institution is at the bottom of the pack. I guess it's not really a promotion, rather how much they want to increase their business for GIC's at that time. Some people move their GIC funds around just like others move their HISA funds around. I guess if you're at 10 institutions then you can't move around a lot to new institutions because you've got them all.

I use to play that game, but decided it would be more clear in my addled brain to open my TDDI interface and see everything in one spot. It's very convenient for many reasons. I keep my fees down by having never paid for an advisor in my lifetime and not buying products like ETF's. 

ltr


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## Koogie

like_to_retire said:


> I keep my fees down by having never paid for an advisor in my lifetime and not buying products like ETF's.
> ltr


I have used a fee based advisor once, 'tis true. It cost me about what you are paying in vig on that EQ GIC....:cocksure:

It is also true that I have swallowed the diversification koolaid (partly). I have significant holdings in VTI and VXUS as my chosen vehicles to get US and INTL coverage. 
But again, the MER doesn't amount to much. 80$ a year for VTI and 220$ a year for VXUS. Again, not to onerous. 

We're all taking different paths. It's just that keeping costs down is as close to true religion as I get... :excitement:


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## AltaRed

Koogie said:


> True but this forum doesn't seem to skew as elderly as others. So it is worth pointing out that the "convenience" of losing .25 for investors in their 30s or 40s can add up to a helluva lot of money by the time they hit their wrinkly years. Assuming their FI is in GICs.


I don't disagree. As always, it is situational and/or depends on one's inclination and/or investment savvy.


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## Userkare

like_to_retire said:


> But Koogie, remember you have to find a place for all your GIC's under $100K, so if you had $1.2 million to find a home for, you'd need to find 12 of those institutions as you suggest and you'd have to move funds around when they suddenly drop rates because their promotion is over. Does that seem possible to you or at least inconvenient?
> 
> ltr


For CDIC coverage, you could use 3 accounts per FI if you have a spouse that is likely to stick around.  ( one in each name + joint account ).


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## james4beach

AltaRed said:


> I don't disagree. As always, it is situational and/or depends on one's inclination and/or investment savvy.


I'm an example of a younger investor who has tried to get the best rates possible. I have accounts with credit unions, multiple banks, and discount brokerages.

And I have a huge mess of accounts... way too many! This already creates a problem in my life when I do my annual FBAR filing with the US. I have to go through account statements for over 20 separate accounts... it's a ridiculous amount of work. It's also harder to track what's going on. If I kept all my GICs in my discount brokerage, I could see them all in one listing, letting me easily check on the ladder and do the maintenance required. There are also issues like T5 tax slips arriving at different times, keeping track and making sure I have received all of them before doing an early tax filing.

What I probably should do is have only the credit union and discount brokerage for GICs.

So although I agree that just getting 0.25% more yield really adds up over the years, I'm not sure it's been worth it for me.


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## fatcat

james4beach said:


> I'm an example of a younger investor who has tried to get the best rates possible. I have accounts with credit unions, multiple banks, and discount brokerages.
> 
> And I have a huge mess of accounts... way too many! This already creates a problem in my life when I do my annual FBAR filing with the US. I have to go through account statements for over 20 separate accounts... it's a ridiculous amount of work. It's also harder to track what's going on. If I kept all my GICs in my discount brokerage, I could see them all in one listing, letting me easily check on the ladder and do the maintenance required. There are also issues like T5 tax slips arriving at different times, keeping track and making sure I have received all of them before doing an early tax filing.
> 
> What I probably should do is have only the credit union and discount brokerage for GICs.
> 
> So although I agree that just getting 0.25% more yield really adds up over the years, I'm not sure it's been worth it for me.


5 or 6 years ago i had something like 20 accounts ... now i have 3, fbar takes me 30 minutes ... are you a multi-millionaire james because unless you are, those 25 basis points are money poorly earned

even without the fbar, the amount of houskeeping required for all those accounts is far outweighed by just looking at all your gic's lined up nicely in your brokerage statement ... no comparison

but then, i am old ... and lazy ... and the fact that the fbar only takes 30 minutes doesn't stop me from worrying about getting it wrong ... not too mention upset at all the investments i can't own


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## ian

Why not search out credit unions. Some of them have 2-3 times the amount of insurance that the CDIC offers?

We consolidated everything a few years ago. So much easier. Our only cash account is EQ. Really like that we can move cash from EQ to our bank over night. Some of the institutions we used in past took two days, some three.


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