# Fake News



## new dog

Why is there suddenly such a huge interest in clamping down on fake news?

What really is the make up of fake news and mainstream news?

Is fake news only alt right as it seems to be suggested?

If a site is targeted as fake news is it really all fake?

Many crazy stories like aliens, Bigfoot, ghosts, giants and so on can't be confirmed one way or the other so the site really doesn't have to worry about being debunked. Are these stories put forward to gain views, so viewers will look at the real stories and opinions that the site has to offer? 

The mainstream will put some of this stuff out from time to time as well but will leave it to the viewers to decide for themselves as to what they think of it. This also gains viewers for the mainstream sites. These mainstream sites will also promote Hollywood gossip and so on to gain viewers. 

Doesn't the mainstream seam to heavily promote certain points like Russia to pump a message whether it is confirmed or not?

Wouldn't you say the rock of both the mainstream and the fake news is the opinions?

Is fake news all fake or is the mainstream media all propaganda or is it really a mix of real news and so called fake news?

Is fake news possibly the wrong term for both the mainstream and the fake news site? It seems since many stories and opinions can't be confirmed that they are what they are until proven otherwise.


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## Rusty O'Toole

At least half the news is fake no matter what the source. Often it is not hard to expose if you look at different sources and get different views. It is best to go to the source and get the absolute facts if possible. If you do this it soon becomes apparent that practically all sources have their bias and what their bias is.

I've read that only 15% of the American public trusts the mainstream media. It surprises me that it is that high since it is so easy to detect the fakery. Many of the stories are so childish and so obviously fake it is surprising anyone takes them seriously. This may be why so many media characters and politicians have such contempt for the public. They know they are bullshitting us and can't believe we are dumb enough to believe their bullshit.


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## Rusty O'Toole

"Doesn't the mainstream seam to heavily promote certain points like Russia to pump a message whether it is confirmed or not?"

Are you referring to the story that Putin swung the election for Trump? If you look into this story you will find out certain things very easily.

1) They are saying Putin influenced the vote by publishing Emails from Hillary's campaign headquarters. In other words it was not Putin or Russia, it was Hillary's crookedness that turned voters against her. Her own emails, and those of her staff, were the proof.

2) Julian Assange of Wikileaks, and several other people who are in a position to know, say there was no hacker and the Russians had nothing to do with it. The emails were leaked by someone in the Clinton camp.

3) They seem to find something sinister in the fact that Putin prefers the candidate who does not want war with Russia.

4) Trump and his cabinet of billionaires and CEOs seem like an unlikely collection of Commies .

Now you have to ask who is spreading this bullshit and why.

And once you know someone is a pathological liar you are a fool if you believe anything they say without proof.


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## new dog

The mainstream media is putting out the Russian story as if it is fact and a done deal. They are pushing so hard that they are even starting to sway some in the electoral college to consider it and change their vote. If Trump tried this the story would be the opposite and they would be framing him as a conspiracy theorist. But still they pump out that there are agencies everywhere that say it is true. Their level of propaganda is truly amazing. However I am not saying it can't come out as true one day but this is at par with Alex Jones or other fake news.

The 15 percent level is bad and yet they do nothing about it. Their ownership having deep pockets must not care and find that their view or message they want pumped out by the media they own is more important. Still the 15 percent seems low considering people on the left seem to have such complete trust in the media no matter what they do.


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## new dog

Look at this story now it blames Putin personally.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...personally-involved-u-s-election-hack-n696146

You have to ask yourself why ramp something up so hard without concrete proof unless you are out of time as in Trump will be president very soon.

It reminds me of Assad gassing his own people which is possible but not likely, considering he would gain nothing from it except to raise the opposition against him. If we didn't go to war with Iraq to find out that there were no weapons of mass destruction, then we would still believe that story to this day. We are pressed very hard and very dangerously by the media these days and it is important that people do step back and resist falling into the trap unless all the facts are presented. 

On the fake news side it is much harder to gain facts because they don't have the level of recourses that the mainstream media has so they are forced to use theories more often. People who see this need to keep it in mind, so if these theories actually start to play out they won't be so easily swayed, by other sources of propaganda.


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## new dog

Do you think the financial news sites online or mainstream could be some of the worst for fake news. Everytime something drops or rises in price they have to give a reason whether it makes sense or not. Or I have heard information is given and reasons set forward to direct investors or clients onto a certain path whether it is the right for them or not. Alt sites promote products or pump it to direct investors.


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## Rusty O'Toole

Ex British Ambassador Craig Murray says he is the source of the leak. The Emails were given to him in Washington by a disgruntled Clinton insider who wanted to expose the Clinton campaign's hijacking of the nomination from Bernie Sanders. In other words the emails were leaked not hacked. This shows everyone who says the emails were hacked by Russia is lying or taken in by a liar.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...termediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html


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## Rusty O'Toole

It's called "talking their book". It is common for representatives of big banks, hedge funds etc to say they are buying when they are selling, or to push a trade they know is at the end of its rope for their own profit.

Financial sites are the worst, they have to let on they know the cause of every blip in the market. Well no one knows the motivation of the millions of investors who make up the market but they have to look wise and come up with something to justify their jobs.

The only one you can depend on is Dennis Gartman. He is always wrong. Two days ago he went long oil, calling the top perfectly. You would have made some nice profits already if you faded that trade. He does this kind of thing all the time. PS he got stopped out this morning which means oil may be going back up.


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## bass player

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Ex British Ambassador Craig Murray says he is the source of the leak. The Emails were given to him in Washington by a disgruntled Clinton insider who wanted to expose the Clinton campaign's hijacking of the nomination from Bernie Sanders. In other words the emails were leaked not hacked. This shows everyone who says the emails were hacked by Russia is lying or taken in by a liar.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...termediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html


The mainstream media has gone from suggesting that Russia hacked the Democrats emails to blatantly claiming that they tried to swing the election. That's fake news.

Of course, the fact that Trump isn't a pushover and the Democrats have done absolutely nothing stop Putin, common sense suggests that Putin would prefer the Democrats remain in power instead of an unknown and likely hard liner like Trump.

Mainstream media = fake news.


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## humble_pie

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Ex British Ambassador Craig Murray says he is the source of the leak. The Emails were given to him in Washington by a disgruntled Clinton insider who wanted to expose the Clinton campaign's hijacking of the nomination from Bernie Sanders. In other words the emails were leaked not hacked. This shows everyone who says the emails were hacked by Russia is lying or taken in by a liar.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...termediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html




what a crackbar story. It's typical of the rubbish spewed out by england's infamous rag tabloid the Daily Mail. Such a pity that Rusty is so easily taken in.

alas, Rusty omitted mentioning what the Daily Mail actually published. That the former ambassador was an ambassador to Uzbekistan only, ie he not a working professional diplomat from the foreign office but merely an honourary appointment (the US has lots of those, will probably have more under donald trump, the "honourary" dipso appointments are always the political cronies of a White House & they are the disrespected scourge of the entire washington professional dipolomatic corps)

moreover the feeble former honourary british diplomat is a self-confessed Wikileaks associate who is close to julian assange. Go figure. Of course the Wiki traitors would publicize stories like this.


here's the Daily Mail headline. Underlining is my own.

*EXCLUSIVE: Ex-British ambassador who is now a WikiLeaks operative claims Russia did NOT provide Clinton emails - they were handed over to him at a D.C. park by an intermediary for 'disgusted' Democratic whistleblowers*


_Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and associate of Julian Assange, told the Dailymail.com he flew to Washington, D.C. for emails.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...termediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html_


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## bass player

^^

humble pie...if you don't have proof, then you're probably experiencing fake outrage


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## Nelley

The CDN dollar is down today-I blame Putin. Lets face it-if the guy can control the US election, Brexit, the German elections and Italy he can certainly tank the CND dollar. Have you got a problem or have you screwed up? Blame Putin.


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## humble_pie

bass player said:


> ^^
> 
> humble pie...if you don't have proof, then you're probably experiencing fake outrage



i underlined the proof. Everybody knows that a short-term one-time "ambasssador to Uzbekistan" is a honourary reward appointment. The twerp himself is a self-confessed julian assange associate & a Wikileaks practitioner. The Daily Mail is a laughingstock british tabloid that posts nothing but celebrity gossip plus rumours & lies to drive traffic.

(i see nelley has joined the thread) (what the forum needs right now is to pen the small handful of senile alt-right crackbars together here in this one lalaland thread) (it's the only way cmf forum can save itself) (otherwise all the cmf regulars are going to depart in disgust) 

(there aren't very many of you kryptos here in cmf) (but since you are all so extremely noisy, you have managed to hijack & poison what was, once upon a time, long ago, a successful working financial forum)

(bass what - if anything - have you got to contribute in finance) (we already know that poor nelley is a financial illiterate)


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## new dog

I think fake news is a very important topic right now because it is front and centre in all media. This attention could also bring us to censorship and curtailment of free speech. We really need free speech since the mainstream media is doing such a poor job, using their power to push the opinions they want us to see.

Rusty it is funny how their never has been much attention drawn to financial sites, who have been spewing possible fake news for a very long time.

Bass player I am getting concerned about the trouble that could come by this constant heavy barrage of mainstream media news that hasn't been confirmed. It is every bit as dangerous as the concerns about the fake news sites.

Humble I like your venom and push it does add to the conversation because it holds everyones feet to the fire. I disagree that it causes other CMF members to leave, unless the attacks are personal and foul language is used. I like the other opinions they are interesting to read again as long as they stay civil. Look at james and olivaw we disagree a lot but it doesn't change the respect we have for each others opinion.


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## bass player

humble_pie said:


> bass what - if anything - have you got to contribute in finance


I own a home (no mortgage) and retired completely debt free at age 53, even though I only earned a very modest income throughout my career. My knowledge on finance and investing is somewhat limited...I managed to retire early by making keeping costs down and by spending less than I earned.

I am in the middle of a 15 month "gap" between my early retirement and when my small pension kicks in, which is being funded by savings and RRSP's. I found this site when looking for financial forums in an attempt to improve my financial knowledge. I have contributed on some other topics, but mostly just read them to learn.


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## Nelley

This is HUGE-just like the MSM said Alex Jones has been caught red handed working for Putin-must see video for sure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbCxIgin5b0


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## new dog

That was funny Nelley.

Bass that was a good explanation, many people come here just to read the threads and pick up information. I don't mind this at all and enjoy your posts in this section of the forum.


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## Rusty O'Toole

More breaking news:

Donald Trump and his cabinet of billionaire CEOs are secretly Commies working hand in glove with Vladimir Putin

Clint Eastwood is secretly a transvestite midget

Oprah Winfrey is secretly a Grand Kleagal in the Ku Klux Klan

Seriously, if anyone tried to sell the story that Bernie Sanders was a Putin puppet everyone would laugh, and he is an actual Socialist.


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## olivaw

Fake news certainly crept into our political discussions. 

zerohedge, Alex Jones Infowars, RT. There was a time when no CMFer would admit to going anywhere near such trash sites. Now we have posters who read them, believe them and defend them.


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## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Fake news certainly crept into our political discussions.
> 
> zerohedge, Alex Jones Infowars, RT. There was a time when no CMFer would admit to going anywhere near such trash sites. Now we have posters who read them, believe them and defend them.


Every day another stupid sheep wakes from their slumber-don't blame Alex Jones-blame the MSM nonsense you swallow.


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## bass player

olivaw said:


> Fake news certainly crept into our political discussions.
> 
> zerohedge, Alex Jones Infowars, RT. There was a time when no CMFer would admit to going anywhere near such trash sites. Now we have posters who read them, believe them and defend them.


We all know how you feel...any and all leftist news sites are the only news sources that are correct and valid, no matter how inaccurate or biased they are. Anything right of center is fake news and can be insulted by the all-knowing and highly informed left...


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## olivaw

Nothing to do with feelings. It's about objective facts. 

When people talk about the "crazy uncle" they are talking about the family member who parrots infowars, rt, zerohedge etc.


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## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Nothing to do with feelings. It's about objective facts.
> 
> When people talk about the "crazy uncle" they are talking about the family member who parrots infowars, rt, zerohedge etc.


SURE-if it was 1986 not 2016-every day another stupid braindead sheep wakes and becomes your "crazy uncle".


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## olivaw

Nelley said:


> SURE-if it was 1986 not 2016-every day another stupid braindead sheep wakes and becomes your "crazy uncle".


Are you a crazy aunt or do you just dress up as one?


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## Rusty O'Toole

But what do you do when the crazy uncle is right? What if Trump does win the election even though every mainstream media outlet on the planet gives him no chance? What if the Russians actually did hack Hillary Clinton's emails even though she laughed at the possibility when she was Secretary of State? What if England votes to leave the EU? What if it turns out all those ridiculous peasants have more to say about world events than the experts in their ivory towers? Then what?


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## bass player

Then you do what they are doing now...blame the Russians, blame racists, or blame alt-right news. Because, recognizing and owning up to their own faults is never an option.


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## olivaw

Did alt-right predict Trump's slim technical victory? I don't think so. They were too busy posting fake news stories about Hillary's health, pedophilia and misuse of foundation funds. 

Did Russians hack Hillary. No evidence of it. They hacked DNC and Podesta but not Hillary. 

Did Brexit side win the referendum battle. Sure, but the war ain't over yet.


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## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Did alt-right predict Trump's slim technical victory? I don't think so. They were too busy posting fake news stories about Hillary's health, pedophilia and misuse of foundation funds.
> 
> Did Russians hack Hillary. No evidence of it. They hacked DNC and Podesta but not Hillary.
> 
> Did Brexit side win the referendum battle. Sure, but the war ain't over yet.


Since when did Russia become the Shining Light on the Hill? According to you every person who tries to do the right thing (Assange as an example) is a Russian agent.


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## new dog

Actually ZH and Alex Jones were saying all summer and up to the election the polls were wrong and the mainstream media was feeding everyone fake polls or news through the polls. Their polls were showing them a Trump victory and not the huge lead the mainstream media was showing.

Does that mean I believe everything they say, of course not but I did note this.

I think with all the crap Hillary has done, along with shady donations and so on that they should leave the election results as a Trump win. Yes they should look into hacking and they should change to paper balloting and so on and everyone should stop cheating. Instead it looks like they are still trying to overthrow Trump, instead of getting behind their president and holding his feet to the fire as any opposition would do.


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## Rusty O'Toole

Dilbert author Scott Adams was another who predicted a Trump win and he did so a year before the election. His analysis was spot on every time. He even said the polls understated Trump's support because a lot of people including him were afraid of negative reactions if they spoke their minds in public but would express themselves in the voting booth.

There are no end of stories that come out first in the alternative media and are confirmed later, sometimes much later, in the mainstream media. This is especially true of financial stories.


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## andrewf

The polls weren't wrong. The polls close to election day were not far off the actual result. Trump outperformed slightly/Hillary underperformed. Trump had several close states break his way and won the electoral college despite Hillary winning the popular vote handily.


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## Nelley

andrewf said:


> The polls weren't wrong. The polls close to election day were not far off the actual result. Trump outperformed slightly/Hillary underperformed. Trump had several close states break his way and won the electoral college despite Hillary winning the popular vote handily.


SURE-Crooked Hillary would have won in a landslide if Boris and Natasha (top agents of King Vlad) hadn't been pulling the levers for Trump.


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## andrewf

If you say so.


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## new dog

So what do forum buddies think is it true or not?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...false-stories-and-virtually-nonexistent-retra


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## new dog

And here is some info-wars food for thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydjEPGXPN0

Of course we should only believe the mainstream and ignore everything.


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## Nelley

new dog said:


> And here is some info-wars food for thought.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydjEPGXPN0
> 
> Of course we should only believe the mainstream and ignore everything.


The MSM is getting ridiculous at this point-grasping at any absurd conspiracy theory possible-their problem is less braindead sheep are watching/reading every day-thus the manic obsession with control of internet info.


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## sags

new dog said:


> And here is some info-wars food for thought.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydjEPGXPN0
> 
> Of course we should only believe the mainstream and ignore everything.


There is no doubt where the hacking originated from.

The hackers made mistakes and computer terminals leave digital traces.

Some of the evidence will be made public, but most of it will remain classified as the US doesn't want to reveal their sources or methods.

The intelligence committees will have access to it all in due time.

Both Republican chairs of intelligence committees have announced they will be holding hearings on the matter.

The only question is how the US will respond.


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## humble_pie

new dog said:


> So what do forum buddies think is it true or not?
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...false-stories-and-virtually-nonexistent-retra





new dog said:


> And here is some info-wars food for thought.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OydjEPGXPN0




newdogcom u know how it is. Folks are never going to look any more at wornout hasbeens zerohedge, info-wars, bill the still, breitbart, RT. Those guys are yesteryear. They all talk the same line anyhow. 

what folks want is something fresh, new & outrageous. Please, can you find something FN&O?

.


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## Eder

I've been getting (what I think) reasonably unbiased news from the BBC. I gave up on Fox , CNN and never have watched MSNBC or read crap like Zerohedge. Too much hate and bias.


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## new dog

I like watching CNN and going to Alex Jones because I find them entertaining. BBC is good but boring. For real news I like watching Global at 6PM.

Humble if you want crazy stuff then go to Steven Quayle.


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## new dog

Here is a nice story from ZH about left leaning immigrant loving San Francisco. It seems as long as people aren't coming to their neighbourhood they are good with it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...pport-immigration-rights-just-not-their-neigh


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## new dog

Here is a very nice quiz forum buddies can take to find out if you are a deplorable.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-19/are-you-deplorable


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## new dog

Here is MTV trying to to tell white guys to be better in 2017. Of course MTV is totally racist but if your on the left you won't notice it. It is a short video on utube from the forum's favourite source Info-wars commenting on the MTV video as it is shown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKn2V9Rq8fc


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## bass player

White is the new black...


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## new dog

Bass player many white people have no idea what you are talking about until it is to late.


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## Pluto

labeling specific independents as "fake news" by mainstream news is just smoke and mirrors. Mainstream media has no special corner on truth, and in fact have engaged in lost of fake news themselves. There has been fake news since there have been humans. One class of fake news is government originated fake news with the goal of starting a war. For example, Gulf of Tonkin fake news to justify escalation of Vietnam war. More recent fake news was the imminent threat by weapons of mass destruction to justify a Mideast war. mainstream news cooperated fully with such fake news. 

Apart from lying, everyone has a perspective, an unprovable world view. Everyone see the world coloured by their own assumptions. 

Often the truth goes over like a lead balloon as it challenges common everyday and much loved delusions (such as 97% of scientists agree global warming is man made). Many people are happier embracing foolish, clearly dubious beliefs.


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## new dog

Look at Syria as an example do you think the people there really want a bunch of insane people ruling them. They are better off with Assad because at least they can live their life. Many won't say anything because they are afraid but the people there really don't want to live in a pile of rubble.


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## Spudd

Pluto said:


> Often the truth goes over like a lead balloon as it challenges common everyday and much loved delusions (such as global warming being a scam). Many people are happier embracing foolish, clearly dubious beliefs.


FIFY


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## bass player

Spudd said:


> FIFY


The 97% claim is fake news debunked many times over the last several years. Only the truly gullible continue to defend it...


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## new dog

I know you guys will all find this story interesting. College student drops out of college despite 4.0 GPA telling people college is a scam. He says average income has increased 5x while college costs have gone up 18x overthe last 40 years.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...s-40-gpa-then-drops-out-you-are-being-scammed


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## Spudd

new dog said:


> I know you guys will all find this story interesting. College student drops out of college despite 4.0 GPA telling people college is a scam. He says average income has increased 5x while college costs have gone up 18x overthe last 40 years.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...s-40-gpa-then-drops-out-you-are-being-scammed


He's not wrong about college costs skyrocketing, but unfortunately, to get most white-collar jobs you need a college degree these days. It's a requirement for entry. Of course if he wants to start his own business, or work in manual labor or retail, he doesn't need college. But if he wants to be an engineer, as the example given in the story, he needs a degree.


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## sags

When did not telling the truth become fake news instead of lying ?


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## Nelley

sags said:


> When did not telling the truth become fake news instead of lying ?


When the MSM told the sheep and made it so.


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## bass player

sags said:


> When did not telling the truth become fake news instead of lying ?


You tell us...which of the following Hillary statements are fake news, and which ones are lies:

"I landed in Bosnia under sniper fire."
"I was named after Sir Edmund Hillary."
"Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video."


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## Nelley

bass player said:


> You tell us...which of the following Hillary statements are fake news, and which ones are lies:
> 
> "I landed in Bosnia under sniper fire."
> "I was named after Sir Edmund Hillary."
> "Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video."


The lies thing is way too long a list-the shorter list would be when has Crooked Hillary ever told the truth.


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## andrewf

bass player said:


> You tell us...which of the following Hillary statements are fake news, and which ones are lies:
> 
> "I landed in Bosnia under sniper fire."
> "I was named after Sir Edmund Hillary."
> "Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video."


Trump lied about being Swedish (I guess being German wasn't good enough for his 'brand'). He's got serious mental problems. He's a pathological liar.


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## bass player

andrewf said:


> Trump lied about being Swedish (I guess being German wasn't good enough for his 'brand'). He's got serious mental problems. He's a pathological liar.


Serious mental problems? You're just repeating fake news from the mentally unstable Kurt Eichenwald from Newsweek. He has no proof of his claims...he's just another lying leftist who thinks he can say anything he wants and not be held accountable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ophbx1iaF8


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## Pluto

Spudd said:


> FIFY


I meant the 97%. In the video referenced below, climate scientist Spencer talks of how he was included in the 97%, but is also deemed a climate change/global warming denier. How can he be in both? Easy, fake research and fake news. (Reportedly he also worked for NASA where he and others were under some kind of gag order preventing them from contradicting the politically correct view. It wasn't until he got a job elsewhere that he could speak freely.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHyd-Y6haMg


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## Pluto

It occurred to me that I should add to the above by pointing out "manufacturing Consent" by Chomsky. It isn't just little upstart kooky websites that publish fake news, its mainstream media. Read the book. 

https://www.amazon.ca/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Economy-Media/dp/0375714499

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent:_Noam_Chomsky_and_the_Media

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent


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## olivaw

sags said:


> When did not telling the truth become fake news instead of lying ?


IMO fake news can be considered fiction until somebody tries to pretend it is the truth. Then it is a lie. 

Material that Trump lifted from fake news sites counts towards his liar-liar-pants-on-fire tally. It helps him to maintain his status as a habitual liar.


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## Nelley

olivaw said:


> IMO fake news can be considered fiction until somebody tries to pretend it is the truth. Then it is a lie.
> 
> Material that Trump lifted from fake news sites counts towards his liar-liar-pants-on-fire tally. It helps him to maintain his status as a habitual liar.


If the guy gets results the public might turn against Selfie Boy and Wynne.


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## SMK

You will like this article new dog. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...-the-truth-of-why-hillary-clinton-really-lost


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## new dog

Thanks SMK I did like it and I think Humble would like it even more then me because it comes from a source that is as good as gold. The article captures exactly what I think happened up to the election.


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## new dog

Pluto said:


> I meant the 97%. In the video referenced below, climate scientist Spencer talks of how he was included in the 97%, but is also deemed a climate change/global warming denier. How can he be in both? Easy, fake research and fake news. (Reportedly he also worked for NASA where he and others were under some kind of gag order preventing them from contradicting the politically correct view. It wasn't until he got a job elsewhere that he could speak freely.)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHyd-Y6haMg



Climate change is a rich area to find fake news on both sides of the argument. The elites on the pro side is looking at power, money and control out of this argument.


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## sags

Rex Murphy takes one position, circles the wagons and then argues against it in the same article.

He says fake news didn't cost Clinton the election and then states she lost because her honesty was questionable.

Where does he think the questions on her honesty originated from ? 

Fox News, Republicans, Breitbart, Infowars, other fake news, a relentless drumbeat of unproven allegations on emails, Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation........perhaps ? The same group who were convinced Obama was born in Kenya.

Rex tops it all off with a dollop of disbelief in the findings of the CIA, FBI and 15 other security agencies that Russia hacked the servers and released the information in an attempt to affect the election results.

Apparently, Rex prefers to place his confidence in Vladimir Putin......because he is a swell guy and always tells the truth.

Earth to Rex....they know the exact computer the hacking originated from. It is the same one that was hacking in Germany.

The hackers were good, but made mistakes like using a Russian emoji...........tiny mistakes of the kind the CIA experts look for.

Like the baccarat player who won millions of dollars with his friend who could read the tiniest of imperfections on the backs of playing cards.

People like that work for the CIA.

Trump will be the President and the Republicans are urging the Democrats to refrain from indulging in the same tactics of disinformation and personal attacks they were relentlessly using for the past 8 years against Obama and Clinton.

Dream on Republicans. The media scrutiny of Donald Trump has only just begun.


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## SMK

sags said:


> Where does he think the questions on her honesty originated from ? Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars, other fake news, a relentless drumbeat of unproven allegations on emails, Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation........perhaps ? Sorry to those who disbelieve........but the Russians did hack the email servers to try to influence the election. Of that there is no doubt.


Hillary Clinton's honesty or rather dishonesty has been an issue forever. She wasn't a trusted presidential candidate now nor when unknown Obama beat her all those years ago.

I don't disbelieve the hacking but not sure it made a difference in her defeat. The truth is that we'll never know.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

Funny


----------



## new dog

Sags negative news on Hillary can't come from CNN because CNN works with Hillary. We have shown examples were the feeds get cut if anyone really starts talking negative about Hillary beyond what they have to mention.


----------



## sags

Hillary is done......finished. The attention of the fake news sites will now turn to Donald Trump.


----------



## new dog

Thats fine it is their right to free speech and Donald may need to be turned on in the future. If he gets to controlling like Harper was here then he will need to be taken down.


----------



## olivaw

There's a lot of Russian propaganda being parroted in some of the larger fake news sites. Presumably Vladimir Putin will decide if they will turn on Donald Trump.


----------



## olivaw

Fake News can be dangerous. 

*Pakistan minister issues nuclear warning to Israel after 'being tricked by fake news site'*

I am a firm believer in absolute free speech but fake news sites are a new phenomenon. They legally monetize lying to the public and the Internet lets them reach a wide audience.They aren't lying about celebrity sex parties any more ... they are lying about politics, international affairs and secret plots. They'll take a grain of truth and build it into something far more click worthy. It is no longer just your crazy uncle bass or aunt nelly believing this stuff either. More reasonable folks are starting to buy it. 

Let's not ban fake news. just need to verify verify verify. If a story is real, it will be corroborated by a professional news organization like BBC, CBC, CNN, Fox, NY Times, New Yorker, Atlantic etc.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Fake News can be dangerous.
> 
> *Pakistan minister issues nuclear warning to Israel after 'being tricked by fake news site'*
> 
> I am a firm believer in absolute free speech but fake news sites are a new phenomenon. They legally monetize lying to the public and the Internet lets them reach a wide audience.They aren't lying about celebrity sex parties any more ... they are lying about politics, international affairs and secret plots. They'll take a grain of truth and build it into something far more click worthy. It is not longer just your crazy uncle bass or aunt nelly believing this stuff either. More reasonable folks are starting to buy into it.
> 
> Let's not ban fake news. We just need to remind people to verify verify verify. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.


HAHAHA-"more reasonable folks are buying it"-TRANSLATION-more sheep are finally waking up-you are losing liar.


----------



## sags

Nelley said:


> HAHAHA-"more reasonable folks are buying it"-TRANSLATION-more sheep are finally waking up-you are losing liar.


So the "fake news" stories circulating on Donald Trump are all true ?


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> So the "fake news" stories circulating on Donald Trump are all true ?


Don't worry-they are inventing an app for the braindead sheep-it will tell you what is real and what is fake-it is certified accurate by the NYT, WashPo, CBC and BBC so it must be good.


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> Fake News can be dangerous.
> 
> *Pakistan minister issues nuclear warning to Israel after 'being tricked by fake news site'*
> 
> I am a firm believer in absolute free speech but fake news sites are a new phenomenon.


That's because Pakistan's defense minister and the rest of them have the same mentality as Nelley. That part of the world has always believed crazy conspiracy theories, the phenomenon isn't new. The new part is how fake news are gaining ground in the western hemisphere. 

Having said this, the problem isn't just with fake news but also with the lack of reporting of the actual news by the media. Only a week ago, 38 people were slaughtered in Istanbul, 25 Coptic people in Cairo, 48 in the Yemeni city of Aden, 56 in a busy market in Madagali, Nigeria, by two girls with explosive belts, 10 in Jordan and finally, 29 more in Mogadishu, Somalia. Events like this only ever get reported on CNN/BBC/CBC if there are western victims, e.g. Canadian in Jordan. There were also numerous attempts to commit mass murder by islamists, which got thwarted from Israel to Europe; again very little reporting. This creates a distorted picture and significantly distorts the scale of the islamist threat.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Don't worry-they are inventing an app for the braindead sheep-it will tell you what is real and what is fake-it is certified accurate by the NYT, WashPo, CBC and BBC so it must be good.


Google plans to build rankings into search results. Fake news sites will be relegated to the back pages. Shouldn't be difficult. Frequent references to "sheep", "sheeple", "MSM", "truth", "international Jewish bankers", "five families", "six families", "illuminati", "elites" "brain dead" and "George Soros" typify fake news sites and their dupable devotees.


----------



## bgc_fan

sags said:


> So the "fake news" stories circulating on Donald Trump are all true ?


You mean like Ivanka Trump being harassed on a JetBlue flight? I mean really, a Trump flying coach on JetBlue? How fake is that? ☺


----------



## Nelley

mordko said:


> That's because Pakistan's defense minister and the rest of them have the same mentality as Nelley. That part of the world has always believed crazy conspiracy theories, the phenomenon isn't new. The new part is how fake news are gaining ground in the western hemisphere.
> 
> Having said this, the problem isn't just with fake news but also with the lack of reporting of the actual news by the media. Only a week ago, 38 people were slaughtered in Istanbul, 25 Coptic people in Cairo, 48 in the Yemeni city of Aden, 56 in a busy market in Madagali, Nigeria, by two girls with explosive belts, 10 in Jordan and finally, 29 more in Mogadishu, Somalia. Events like this only ever get reported on CNN/BBC/CBC if there are western victims, e.g. Canadian in Jordan. There were also numerous attempts to commit mass murder by islamists, which got thwarted from Israel to Europe; again very little reporting. This creates a distorted picture and significantly distorts the scale of the islamist threat.


Einstein: Except for your logical theory about Vlad Putin controlling the universe and everything in it-nah that aint crazy at all.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Google plans to build rankings into search results. Fake news sites will be relegated to the back pages. Shouldn't be difficult. Frequent references to "sheep", "sheeple", "MSM", "truth", "international Jewish bankers", "five families", "six families", "illuminati", "elites" "brain dead" and "George Soros" typify fake news sites and their dupable devotees.


The braindead herd needs protection-Commie China has the right idea-as long as we follow their lead (like this idiot says) everything will be great.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> The braindead herd needs protection-Commie China has the right idea-as long as we follow their lead (like this idiot says) everything will be great.


No China style censorship shall be imposed. Google will simply flag fake news sites and/or relegate them to page 2 or 20 or 200 of the search ranking. Gullible gadflies will still have access to their brain candy from infowars and zerohedge. Putin puppies will still visit RT.com. Angry anglophone will visit Breitbart. The rest of us will rely on professional journalistic sources.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Google plans to build rankings into search results. Fake news sites will be relegated to the back pages. Shouldn't be difficult. Frequent references to "sheep", "sheeple", "MSM", "truth", "international Jewish bankers", "five families", "six families", "illuminati", "elites" "brain dead" and "George Soros" typify fake news sites and their dupable devotees.


Yup...we all know the progressive mindset. All non-left wing sites are fake news, and believe everything you hear from the left.

In other ground breaking news...they took the word "gullible" out of the dictionary.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

There is nothing new about "fake news" and there is nothing new about governments promoting their own propaganda and restricting their subjects' access to alternatives. What is new is that so called free countries are willing to have their rights taken away.


----------



## bass player

Not only has the left been the main creator of fake news, they also are the main supplier of fake hoaxes...hundreds and hundreds of fake hate crimes have been committed by morally corrupt Democrats in order to make Trump supporters look bad have been done since the election.

Of course, the left media quickly "reports" these incidents as actual hate crimes, but when proven to be a hoax, they never seem to get around to correcting or amending the report. That's fake news.

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> No China style censorship shall be imposed. Google will simply flag fake news sites and/or relegate them to page 2 or 20 or 200 of the search ranking. Gullible gadflies will still have access to their brain candy from infowars and zerohedge. Putin puppies will still visit RT.com. Angry anglophone will visit Breitbart. The rest of us will rely on professional journalistic sources.


I'm not confident professional journalsitc sources are free of fake news. Of course suppose I should ask you which news outlets you have confidence in. 
One example of fake news was the aproximatly 40 year mantra on low fat diets and the claim that saturated fat was bad for you. a recent review of the origional research revealed that the origional data did not show saturated fat was bad. To the best of my knowledge no professional journalist who wrote on diet and health ever checked the origional data. There is a long history of fake news from professional journalists. I suppose the upstart fake news websites are a handy scapegoat to take attention away from the pros.


----------



## mordko

Professional journalistic sources regularly report fake news.

Here is an example: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Jewish-family-flees-Lancaster-County.html

Both a local newspapers and the likes of Slate reported that a Jewish family was forced to flee a town in Pennsylvania as a result of a publication in Breitbart. 

Turns out it was entirely made up and the family left on a planned family vacation.

Then again, sites like Zerohedge publish nothing BUT fake news.


----------



## sags

Public broadcasters still provide fact based news. (BBC, CBC, NPR)

Once "for profit" is involved in any business all that matters is money.

CNN is still the news media for anything happening live in the world. Nobody else has the reporting affiliates capability they do.

Donald Trump complained about them a lot, but they were the ones he was calling all the time.


----------



## bass player

Pluto said:


> I suppose the upstart fake news websites are a handy scapegoat to take attention away from the pros.


The mainstream media is starting to realize that Trump doesn't need them and they are terrified. Accusing everyone else of fake news is a desperate attempt to regain some of their power, but it might be too late because too many people have lost trust in them.


----------



## mordko

> Public broadcasters still provide fact based news. (BBC, CBC, NPR)
> 
> Once "for profit" is involved in any business all that matters is money.


^BS. BBC/CBC/NPR spin at least as much as privately owned sources; often way more. It's not surprising given that they have vested interest in what they say. Like when Liberals promised to shower CBC with billions of our tax dollars during the last election.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Public broadcasters still provide fact based news. (BBC, CBC, NPR)
> 
> Once "for profit" is involved in any business all that matters is money.
> 
> CNN is still to "go to" news media for anything happening live in the world. Nobody else has the reporting affiliates.


CBC is far too biased to be taken seriously. Their reporters were almost in tears when Trump won the election...hardly "unbiased" coverage.

CNN is a joke. Sure, they cover elections and disasters 24/7, but they are very biased and routinely cut off anyone who dared to criticize Hillary or defend Trump.

You need to take off your liberal glasses for a while and try to view things objectively.


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> I'm not confident professional journalsitc sources are free of fake news. Of course suppose I should ask you which news outlets you have confidence in.
> One example of fake news was the aproximatly 40 year mantra on low fat diets and the claim that saturated fat was bad for you. a recent review of the origional research revealed that the origional data did not show saturated fat was bad. To the best of my knowledge no professional journalist who wrote on diet and health ever checked the origional data. There is a long history of fake news from professional journalists. I suppose the upstart fake news websites are a handy scapegoat to take attention away from the pros.


Certainly professional journalists make mistakes but professional journalistic standards call for objectivity and a commitment to seek truth. The failure of individuals to live up to the ideal doesn't render the ideal less worthy. It does not make those organizations who strive for it any less admirable. 

Truth is secondary to sites like infowars, ZH, RT and Breitbart. They publish falsehoods on purpose. It would be a public good if search engines flagged them as purveyors of fake news. 

Someone upthread said something about taking rights away but no rights will be lost. Fake news sites retain their free speech right to publish falsehoods. Other sources will exercise their free speech right to call them out on it. _"If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it." - Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 4 Mar. 1801_


----------



## new dog

The way the mainstream media has been delivering the news, it is extremely dangerous to trust them to give us honest and unbiased news and opinion.


----------



## sags

mordko said:


> Like when Liberals promised to shower CBC with billions of our tax dollars during the last election.


Yes, and the voters approved and gave the Liberals a majority government.


----------



## mordko

Having CBC campaign for libs 24/7 throughout the campaign. Using our tax dollars.


----------



## sags

The optics may have appeared that way, because Conservatives weren't allowed to speak freely to the media.

The PMO had full control over the media messaging. Blame Harper for any lack of media coverage.

The media isn't going to send reporters to hear "no comment" all the time.


----------



## mordko

It was the spin the CBC put on. Not surprising given the obvious conflict of interest. CBC behaved almost like Russian state TV channels do when it's time to elect Putin and for the same reason. They support whoever pays the bills. It's unfair and undemocratic. Time to privatize.


----------



## mordko

Was particularly obnoxious to ask for 400 million dollars on top of the handouts given by the libs. Just as the Canadian economy is tanking and the country is going deeper and deeper into debt. Only someone whose kids won't pay taxes can support a parasitic organization like this.


----------



## bass player

mordko said:


> Having CBC campaign for libs 24/7 throughout the campaign. Using our tax dollars.


They backed the Ontario Libs, too...I remember seeing Kathleen Wynne thank CBC for their support after the election.


----------



## bass player

Check out CBC's reaction to Trump's win...they were almost in tears. I've never seen Danielle Moodie-Mills before, but wow. She called it "white supremacy's last stand":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ix9tjGud8Y


----------



## mordko

Yes. Not privatizing CBC was the biggest mistake of the Harper government. Even worse than leaving in place the ban on private healthcare.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> Check out CBC's reaction to Trump's win...they were almost in tears. I've never seen Danielle Moodie-Mills before, but wow. She called it "white supremacy's last stand":
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ix9tjGud8Y


More than 80% of Canadians agree with her about Trump.

Trump will be a complete disaster. We can only hope he doesn't do something really stupid at 3 a.m.


----------



## olivaw

Those who insist on private news coverage are free to watch Global , CTV or one of the American channels.

The rest of us will watch our publicly funded CBC. It's a world class news service.

Comparisons to Russian State Television above are ludicrous. Russian State Television shills for the ruling party. CBC does not.

Aside: Trump *will* do something really stupid at 3 a.m. Our best hope is that his stupidity does not extend to launching nukes.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> Check out CBC's reaction to Trump's win...they were almost in tears. I've never seen Danielle Moodie-Mills before, but wow. She called it "white supremacy's last stand":
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ix9tjGud8Y


JEEZ-what garbage-and we have to pay for this slop? What a terrible representation of Canada.


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> Those who insist on private news coverage are free to watch Global , CTV or one of the American channels.
> 
> The rest of us will watch our publicly funded CBC. It's a world class news service.
> 
> Comparisons to Russian State Television above are ludicrous. Russian State Television shills for the ruling party. CBC does not.


Those who insist on private news are free to watch other sources, but they are forced to pay for the liberal propaganda. CBC is hardly watched between the elections. I would be OK with it if they made CBC licence fee optional. Then pay as many billions for this junk as you wish. See how long it would last if it wasn't forced down peoples' throats. 

Russian TV shills for Putin. CBC shills for the liberals. Putin funds Russian TV with money that isn't his. Liberals fund CBC with money that isn't theirs. Both get something in return for other peoples money.


----------



## olivaw

Trump's position on Russian interference in the US election is consistent with RT.com and other Russian propaganda sites. 

99 of 100 US senators disagree. They plan to impose additional sanctions on Russia. 

*Donald Trump disagrees with Senate consensus on Russia*.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Trump's position on Russian interference in the US election is consistent with RT.com and other Russian propaganda sites.
> 
> 99 of 100 US senators disagree. They plan to impose additional sanctions on Russia.
> 
> *Donald Trump disagrees with Senate consensus on Russia*.


You are bothered when you get labelled as a Sheep yet on every issue, in every post you repeat your worldview that popular opinion is good, just and perfect and unpopular opinions are wrong.


----------



## sags

CBC Newsworld and CBC radio are top level media and news sources.

Power and Politics with Rosemary Barton is a great news source.

The CBC is a Canadian institution and the people voted to restore the Harper cuts to their budget.

Case closed for most Canadians.


----------



## sags

_Those who insist on private news coverage are free to watch Global , CTV or one of the American channels._

Exactly, but it isn't good enough for conservatives. They want to dictate where everyone else gets their news.

Conservatives know they have to control the messaging to have a chance to win.


----------



## olivaw

An opinion piece on a professional news site. This is not about fake news so much as it is about authoritarian populists and their assault on the free press in 2016. 

*CBC ANALYSIS: Goodbye and good riddance to a ghastly year*


> Of course, 2016 was not the year when terror became part of life's daily drumbeat. That happened long ago. But a corner was turned, nonetheless. The jihadists, after all, are out for a breakdown of order — especially the democratic and secular order wherever it can be found.
> 
> And, inch by inch, they seem to be getting it. One year ago, were we fretting that the very survival of liberal democracy was in doubt?
> 
> We are now.
> 
> For one thing, we can hardly look to the incoming president of the United States to be the champion of democratic institutions. Donald Trump said the system was "rigged" — unless he won. The chief justice? An "absolute disaster." The media? "Liars." Protesters? "Knock the crap out of 'em, would ya? Seriously."
> 
> Elsewhere, the omens have been no more subtle. The British turned their backs on Europe. Populists are chipping away at independent courts and media in Hungary, Poland, Greece and Venezuela. They're on the march in France and Austria.
> 
> A Philippine strongman brags about killing criminals, due process be damned. Russia's strongman, Vladimir Putin, has hacked the U.S. election, tightened his grip on chunks of Ukraine and turned much of Syria to rubble. China is cracking down even harder on dissent and stocking the ocean with armed islands. Turkey, a member of NATO, is locking up judges, journalists, civil servants.





> But face it: authoritarianism had a very good year, all over the globe. Who's to say that Canada will be stubbornly different as the new year muscles the old year aside?


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> An opinion piece on a professional news site. This is not about fake news so much as it is about authoritarian populists and their assault on the free press in 2016.
> 
> *CBC ANALYSIS: Goodbye and good riddance to a ghastly year*


Wow-how impressive-the British turned their backs on Europe-how evil-re France and their march, the French better hurry up-time is running out for that place.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Wow-how impressive-the British turned their backs on Europe-how evil-re France and their march, the French better hurry up-time is running out for that place.


Don't forget Philippines, Turkey, Russia, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Greece, and Venezuela. Trump admires far right wing authoritarian leaders.


----------



## mordko

sags said:


> _Those who insist on private news coverage are free to watch Global , CTV or one of the American channels._
> 
> Exactly, but it isn't good enough for conservatives. They want to dictate where everyone else gets their news.
> 
> Conservatives know they have to control the messaging to have a chance to win.


False. Watch whatever you want. Just don't force me to pay for your propaganda.


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> Don't forget Philippines, Turkey, Russia, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Greece, and Venezuela. Trump admires far right wing authoritarian leaders.


Trump admires Venezuela? Really? Right wing?

Then again, liberals are hardly in a position to criticize Trump given Trudeau's eulogy for Castro.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> Certainly professional journalists make mistakes but professional journalistic standards call for objectivity and a commitment to seek truth. The failure of individuals to live up to the ideal doesn't render the ideal less worthy. It does not make those organizations who strive for it any less admirable.
> 
> Truth is secondary to sites like infowars, ZH, RT and Breitbart. They publish falsehoods on purpose. It would be a public good if search engines flagged them as purveyors of fake news.
> 
> Someone upthread said something about taking rights away but no rights will be lost. Fake news sites retain their free speech right to publish falsehoods. Other sources will exercise their free speech right to call them out on it. _"If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it." - Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 4 Mar. 1801_



The basic strategy of media is to survive as a business, and that means keeping readership and viewership up. Reporting on doom, gloom and disaster is rather effective at achieving that goal. 
There is no such thing as objectivity. Everyone has a perspective. Media outlets commonly have an editor. Editing means picking and choosing what is seen, and what isn't. What gets prominance and what doesn't. Hence perspective. There is no method to objectively present news. You can be sure that the financial well being of the enterprise is a factor in editing. Too, who owns the business and what is their worldview plays a role in editing. There are many factors operative in editing, none of which guarentees objectivity. 

It is left to the reader/viewer to expose themselves to competing perspectives and engage in critical thinking to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Even then, they have no guarentee of the truth.

The following is an example of what I mean. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Construction_of_Reality


----------



## olivaw

mordko said:


> Then again, liberals are hardly in a position to criticize Trump given Trudeau's eulogy for Castro.


Why would Prime Minister Trudeau's comment about Castro have any bearing on the right of private Canadians to criticize Trump?


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> The basic strategy of media is to survive as a business, and that means keeping readership and viewership up. Reporting on doom, gloom and disaster is rather effective at achieving that goal.
> There is no such thing as objectivity. Everyone has a perspective. Media outlets commonly have an editor. Editing means picking and choosing what is seen, and what isn't. What gets prominance and what doesn't. Hence perspective. There is no method to objectively present news. You can be sure that the financial well being of the enterprise is a factor in editing. Too, who owns the business and what is their worldview plays a role in editing. There are many factors operative in editing, none of which guarentees objectivity.
> 
> It is left to the reader/viewer to expose themselves to competing perspectives and engage in critical thinking to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Even then, they have no guarentee of the truth.
> 
> The following is an example of what I mean.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Construction_of_Reality


Interesting read on wiki. Value discussions occur in the context of societally acceptable norms. Slavery was acceptable two hundred years ago in the US. Today it is considered abhorrent. There is no intrinsic truth to the idea that slavery is evil but almost all of us accept it as an absolute truth. (It's a ham fisted example but it is what popped into my head). 

To the extent that professional journalists exist as part of our society, they are going to use language that is consistent with our shared values. 

It's valuable to expose ourselves to different opinions and perspectives. We just have to ensure that the alternative opinions are coming from ernest and honest individuals. Certainly, we should seek out professional news organizations from different ends of the political spectrum and even from different cultures. 

As you said, we must remain critical of all sources. Much of the alternative media (alt-right) is not providing an alternative perspective. They are providing an alternative to factual truth. They didn't just just argue that Hillary Clinton would be a bad president. They said that she ran a child pornography ring out of the basement of a pizza shop. That's factually wrong in any context. How can we value their perspective when they lie?


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> Why would Prime Minister Trudeau's comment about Castro have any bearing on the right of private Canadians to criticize Trump?


Touche. Supporters of Trudeau tend to embrace hypocrisy with pride.


----------



## wraphter

> Everyone has a perspective.


It depends what society we are talking about.

In a free society such as in the US and Canada most people are allowed to express themselves. In an authoritarian one ,for example Russia, there is no freedom or very little freedom of speech. 

In a free society each individual is free to compete with the other individuals. Some will gain acceptance and some will be ignored.
Some media will be popular ,some will be neglected. Not all perspectives will be equally accepted.

Also not all values are social. Some are biologically determined. For example liberals do not value loyalty to the group and authority
as much as conservatives.


----------



## Nelley

wraphter said:


> It depends what society we are talking about.
> 
> In a free society such as in the US and Canada most people are allowed to express themselves. In an authoritarian one ,for example Russia, there is no freedom or very little freedom of speech.
> 
> In a free society each individual is free to compete with the other individuals. Some will gain acceptance and some will be ignored.
> Some media will be popular ,some will be neglected. Not all perspectives will be equally accepted.
> 
> Also not all values are social. Some are biologically determined. For example liberals do not value loyalty to the group and authority
> as much as conservatives.


Commie China is every bit as authoritarian as Russia and ten times more influential in regards to Canadian policies-before the MSM turned the focus to Russia a couple of months ago that country was never even discussed.


----------



## new dog

Many in the main stream are calling 2016 the worst year ever. There were some problems like Syria and refugees which the left made sure was a problem. Then there was Fort McMurray which was bad.

However there were some very bright positives. BREXIT was very good and Hillary not get elected was excellent for everyone, the left included, although they don't know it. We also should have racism declining now that Obama is going to be gone and Trump won't let Muslims flood in, so all in all not the worst year ever.


----------



## humble_pie

.

happy new year one-eyed nelley


.


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> Many in the main stream are calling 2016 the worst year ever. There were some problems like Syria and refugees which the left made sure was a problem. Then there was Fort McMurray which was bad.
> 
> However there were some very bright positives. BREXIT was very good and Hillary not get elected was excellent for everyone, the left included, although they don't know it. We also should have racism declining now that Obama is going to be gone and Trump won't let Muslims flood in, so all in all not the worst year ever.


I agree with you but not everyone is on board https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z04M6NhkIKk


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> Interesting read on wiki. Value discussions occur in the context of societally acceptable norms. Slavery was acceptable two hundred years ago in the US. Today it is considered abhorrent. There is no intrinsic truth to the idea that slavery is evil but almost all of us accept it as an absolute truth. (It's a ham fisted example but it is what popped into my head).
> 
> To the extent that professional journalists exist as part of our society, they are going to use language that is consistent with our shared values.
> 
> It's valuable to expose ourselves to different opinions and perspectives. We just have to ensure that the alternative opinions are coming from ernest and honest individuals. Certainly, we should seek out professional news organizations from different ends of the political spectrum and even from different cultures.
> 
> As you said, we must remain critical of all sources. Much of the alternative media (alt-right) is not providing an alternative perspective. They are providing an alternative to factual truth. They didn't just just argue that Hillary Clinton would be a bad president. They said that she ran a child pornography ring out of the basement of a pizza shop. That's factually wrong in any context. How can we value their perspective when they lie?


Identifying lying is part of critical thinking. No one is saying to respect lying. Also it is not valid to generalize from that instance to all socalled alternative media. Mainstream media is invovled in types of lying as well, usually not bold face lies, but more subtle lying by omission.


----------



## new dog

Exactly Pluto, the mainstream delivers fake news in a much more cunning way. Sites that talk about space aliens or giants can easily be dismissed but the cunning is hard to weed out.

By the way nice movie trailer Nelley.


----------



## Pluto

Yes, Nelly's movie trailer is funny. I think the main thing they missed is Nelly's bottomless well of retorts, an inexplicable force.


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> Identifying lying is part of critical thinking. No one is saying to respect lying. Also it is not valid to generalize from that instance to all socalled alternative media. Mainstream media is invovled in types of lying as well, usually not bold face lies, but more subtle lying by omission.


"Lying by omission" is an oft-used but unproven claim. You can't blame professional journalists for failing to report the pizzeria hoax. 

I agree that alternative media may be honest. I have yet to see an honest alt-right media site quoted on this forum. Links are to zerohedge, Alex Jones' infowars, or an individual blog. They are not trustworthy.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Commie China is every bit as authoritarian as Russia and ten times more influential in regards to Canadian policies-before the MSM turned the focus to Russia a couple of months ago that country was never even discussed.


Russia is led by a strongman with a tendency toward military adventurism. The media didn't change the discussion. Putin called attention to himself, when he invaded Crimea, began carpet bombing Syrian civilians and illegally interfered in the American election.

China is led by committee. They invaded no country.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Russia is led by a strongman with a tendency toward military adventurism. The media didn't change the discussion. Putin called attention to himself, when he invaded Crimea, began carpet bombing Syrian civilians and illegally interfered in the American election.
> 
> China is led by committee. They invaded no country.


Sheep: "Illegally interfered in the American election"-as always you are just repeating MSM crap-Crooked Hillary, more than any candidate in modern history, had a huge propaganda advantage and still LOST-the American public saw through this disgusting fraud.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> "Lying by omission" is an oft-used but unproven claim. You can't blame professional journalists for failing to report the pizzeria hoax.
> 
> I agree that alternative media may be honest. I have yet to see an honest alt-right media site quoted on this forum. Links are to zerohedge, Alex Jones' infowars, or an individual blog. They are not trustworthy.


I am not blaming them for not reporting the hoax. I'm saying there is no objectivity in any reporting by any media outlet. Everyone has a world view tied to personal assumptions, even professional journalists. It isn't possible to report without assumptions, therefore the objectivity that is claimed by journalists is a false claim.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Sheep: "Illegally interfered in the American election"-as always you are just repeating MSM crap-Crooked Hillary, more than any candidate in modern history, had a huge propaganda advantage and still LOST-the American public saw through this disgusting fraud.


I'm repeating what is said by the CIA, the FBI and a dozen other security agencies. 

You're repeating Russian propaganda. Perhaps you should have chosen the name Dolly for yourself - the original cloned sheep. 

BTW: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by close to 3 million votes.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> I'm repeating what is said by the CIA, the FBI and a dozen other security agencies.
> 
> You're repeating Russian propaganda. Perhaps you should have chosen the name Dolly for yourself - the original cloned sheep.
> 
> BTW: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by close to 3 million votes.


I thought Comey and the FBI was owned by Vlad-now you are just confusing yourself.


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> I am not blaming them for not reporting the hoax. I'm saying there is no objectivity in any reporting by any media outlet. Everyone has a world view tied to personal assumptions, even professional journalists. It isn't possible to report without assumptions, therefore the objectivity that is claimed by journalists is a false claim.


There is no absolute objectivity among humans, just as there is no perfection. Professional journalists strive for objectivity and achieve something less. Their effort is still worthy of admiration. 

Sites like RT, zero hedge and infowars strive for persuasion. There is no equivalence. They are not journalistic organizations, they are propagandist organizations.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> I thought Comey and the FBI was owned by Vlad-now you are just confusing yourself.


How would what you thought lead to me confusing myself? 

For that matter. Do you think for yourself? I've seen no evidence of it.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> How would what you thought lead to me confusing myself?
> 
> For that matter. Do you think for yourself? I've seen no evidence of it.


Five minutes ago you said the FBI accused all mighty Putin of causing Crooked Hillary to lose-previously Crooked Hillary supporters blamed Comey and the FBI for the loss of the disgusting one-real confusing for you.


----------



## new dog

Now the media is blaming Russia for not retaliating to Obama's actions against them. It is lousy when the so called bad guy won't respond the way you think they should. Trump says Fox news gets it and NBC and CNN are being played by Putin.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Now the media is blaming Russia for not retaliating to Obama's actions against them. It is lousy when the so called bad guy won't respond the way you think they should. Trump says Fox news gets it and NBC and CNN are being played by Putin.


Obama is smug and arrogant and acts like a petty dictator and is now doing everything in his power to make things as difficult for the next administration as possible. Democrats always act like spoiled children when they don't get their way. Putin treated him just like a spoiled child whose toys were taken away...he knows Obama is a lame duck and dismissed him as irrelevant.


----------



## humble_pie

.











.


----------



## new dog

Good stuff Humble, happy new year to you as well.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Obama is smug and arrogant and acts like a petty dictator and is now doing everything in his power to make things as difficult for the next administration as possible. Democrats always act like spoiled children when they don't get their way. Putin treated him just like a spoiled child whose toys were taken away...he knows Obama is a lame duck and dismissed him as irrelevant.


Just democrats? What about the GOP (unconstitutionally) refusing to confirm a SCOTUS appointment for a year, even though the nomination was a centrist consensus candidate.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Five minutes ago you said the FBI accused all mighty Putin of causing Crooked Hillary to lose-previously Crooked Hillary supporters blamed Comey and the FBI for the loss of the disgusting one-real confusing for you.


You may be confused. A dozen US security departments have identified the Russians as the hackers. The FBI was one of them but certainly not the only one.

Some individuals have called for an invalidation of the election but that doesn't appear to be a majority view. Most favour retaliatory steps. We'll see what congress has planned in January.


----------



## wraphter

> Some individuals have called for an invalidation of the election but that doesn't appear to be a majority view.


There has been a lot of talk to the effect that the election did not represent the will of the people because Trump got about 3 million votes
less than Clinton in the popular vote. I have not heard anyone say that the election was invalid and therefore should be determined in the House of Representatives.



> Most favour retaliatory steps.


I am not sure who the 'most' refers to but Obama has already taken some baby steps by ordering the removal of 35 Russian diplomats 
and putting sanctions on some officials in the Russian government. These actions were criticized as being ineffective. Putin countered these actions by Obama by saying he would not expel American diplomats and he would wait until Trump was president. 

Obama was silent about the Russian hacking during the election.If he would have made a public announcement of retaliatory measures
it might have saved Hillary. He did not want to be accused of helping her improperly. Of course Comey intervened in the political process repeatedly to her detriment. 

If Bill Clinton had not visited Loretta Lynch in her airplane on the tarmac Comey would not have had a reason to intervene and the outcome of the election might have been different.


----------



## mordko

Speaker Paul Ryan called to act on Russian interference BEFORE the election. That would have been the right time to send a warning signal. Administration ignored it.

Now Obama imposed travel restrictions on seniour GRU officials who don't travel and expelled a Russian embassy cook. Really? Can he be any more pathetic?


----------



## humble_pie

.

happy new year to the Trolls in cmf forum

.












.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> There is no absolute objectivity among humans, just as there is no perfection. Professional journalists strive for objectivity and achieve something less. Their effort is still worthy of admiration.
> 
> Sites like RT, zero hedge and infowars strive for persuasion. There is no equivalence. They are not journalistic organizations, they are propagandist organizations.


I'm having trouble with your use of the notion of "objective". Objective means non-personal, or the absence of personal beliefs, assumptions, and values. But everything they write and speak is permeated by their beliefs and values. Why don't the CNN journalist agree with the Fox News journalists? Because they have differing values. The word objectivity only arises as rhetoric, not as reality. And when they debate, they are not striving for objectivity, they are trying to convince the other to adopt their value laden world view. They are all involved in persuasion. 

Your view, in contrast, implies that CN and FOX news pretty much agree with eachother on everything becasue they are professionals striving for objectivity. I doubt it. They have irreconcilable differences in world view. 

Objectivity is a convoluted myth uncritically accepted as truth and taught in many fields from science to politics to journalism.


----------



## Nelley

Pluto said:


> I'm having trouble with your use of the notion of "objective". Objective means non-personal, or the absence of personal beliefs, assumptions, and values. But everything they write and speak is permeated by their beliefs and values. Why don't the CNN journalist agree with the Fox News journalists? Because they have differing values. The word objectivity only arises as rhetoric, not as reality. And when they debate, they are not striving for objectivity, they are trying to convince the other to adopt their value laden world view. They are all involved in persuasion.
> 
> Your view, in contrast, implies that CN and FOX news pretty much agree with eachother on everything becasue they are professionals striving for objectivity. I doubt it. They have irreconcilable differences in world view.
> 
> Objectivity is a convoluted myth uncritically accepted as truth and taught in many fields from science to politics to journalism.


As you say-Carlos Slim bought the NYT to push his agenda-Jeff Bezos bought the Wash Post to push his agenda.


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> Objectivity is a convoluted myth uncritically accepted as truth and taught in many fields from science to politics to journalism.


That might be going a little far. Philosophers have debated the concept of objectivity for years but very few would discard the notion as meaningless. "_It is hot in here_" is a subjective declaration. "_It is 22.5 degrees C in this room_" is an objective declaration. One can't really verify a subjective comment, but one can certainly prove or disprove an objective comment. 

Alex Jones Infowars says that Sandy Hook was a "false flag" government conspiracy. He also claims that the US government uses a secret weather weapon to create tornadoes in the US. These are falsehoods that he presents as fact. His radio show is not a legitimate alternative to Fox or CNN. It is a storytelling site that has been created for entertainment purposes only. Think of it as the equivalent of a Harry Potter movie.


----------



## new dog

Apparently the Washington post and other mainstream media are running a fake story about Russians hacking the Vermont power grid.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/30/w...story-about-russians-hacking-electrical-grid/

If so and it appears so then the Washington Post and others will have to line up to be in Harry Potter movies.


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> Apparently the Washington post and other mainstream media are running a fake story about Russians hacking the Vermont power grid.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/30/w...story-about-russians-hacking-electrical-grid/
> 
> If so and it appears so then the Washington Post and others will have to line up to be in Harry Potter movies.


CNN is proud of hosting a Presidential debate and giving the questions to Crooked Hillary in advance-I am not sure what sheep movie they would be in.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Apparently the Washington post and other mainstream media are running a fake story about Russians hacking the Vermont power grid.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/30/w...story-about-russians-hacking-electrical-grid/
> 
> If so and it appears so then the Washington Post and others will have to line up to be in Harry Potter movies.


Personally, I believe that they may have been overzealous in their headlines about the malware on the laptop computer as we don't yet have all the facts. There is no equivalence to a guy like Alex Jones who says that Hillary Clinton was behind the Dallas shootings and that Barack Obama controls the weather with his secret weather weapon. (WaPo may be premature. Alex Jones is presents made up conspiracy theories that wouldn't convince most twelve year olds)


----------



## sags

new dog said:


> Apparently the Washington post and other mainstream media are running a fake story about Russians hacking the Vermont power grid.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/30/w...story-about-russians-hacking-electrical-grid/
> 
> If so and it appears so then the Washington Post and others will have to line up to be in Harry Potter movies.


As long as the malware is found before it accesses the system mainframe..........it's all good ?


----------



## new dog

If anyone on a conservative news site ran with a story like this you would be up in arms about fake news and conspiracy theories.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Personally, I believe that they may have been overzealous in their headlines about the malware on the laptop computer as we don't yet have all the facts.


That's why it's called fake news....you don't report that it was a Russian hack of the electrical grid if it turns out that some lonely employee was just trying to find a Russian bride or was downloading porn.

You also don't report that "the Russian's hacked the election" when no one knows if they did for sure, but even if they did hack the Democrat's emails, what their intention was.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> You also don't report that "the Russian's hacked the election" when no one knows if they did for sure, but even if they did hack the Democrat's emails, what their intention was.


According to the CIA, FBI, NSA and most security personnel, the Russians hacked the Democrats emails under the direction of Vladimir Putin. I'll trust our own security agencies before I'd trust the word of a tyrant like Vladimir Putin. 

What next? Are you going to deny that Putin invaded Crimea?


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> According to the CIA, FBI, NSA and most security personnel, the Russians hacked the Democrats emails under the direction of Vladimir Putin. I'll trust our own security agencies before I'd trust the word of a tyrant like Vladimir Putin.
> 
> What next? Are you going to deny that Putin invaded Crimea?


How does the Russian's possibly hacking the Democrats emails magically turn into "the Russian's hacked the election"?

Fake news...that's how.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> That's why it's called fake news....you don't report that it was a Russian hack of the electrical grid if it turns out that some lonely employee was just trying to find a Russian bride or was downloading porn.
> 
> You also don't report that "the Russian's hacked the election" when no one knows if they did for sure, but even if they did hack the Democrat's emails, what their intention was.


According to the utility, the computer was hooked up to the utilities network and removed after the malware was found.

_Burlington Electric General Manager Neale Lunderville told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux that the utility found an Internet address that was associated with recent malicious cyber activity, and that IP address was communicating with a company computer.

"*We immediately isolated the machine, pulled it off the network, alerted federal authorities and began to work with them*," he said._


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> How does the Russian's possibly hacking the Democrats emails magically turn into "the Russian's hacked the election"?
> 
> Fake news...that's how.


Only the Democrats emails were released to Wikileaks. The implications are obvious.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> That might be going a little far. Philosophers have debated the concept of objectivity for years but very few would discard the notion as meaningless. "_It is hot in here_" is a subjective declaration. "_It is 22.5 degrees C in this room_" is an objective declaration. One can't really verify a subjective comment, but one can certainly prove or disprove an objective comment.
> 
> Alex Jones Infowars says that Sandy Hook was a "false flag" government conspiracy. He also claims that the US government uses a secret weather weapon to create tornadoes in the US. These are falsehoods that he presents as fact. His radio show is not a legitimate alternative to Fox or CNN. It is a storytelling site that has been created for entertainment purposes only. Think of it as the equivalent of a Harry Potter movie.


1. "It is 22.5 degrees C in this room" is an objective declaration. - this is actually subjective as it relies on numerous assumptions. One assumption is the instrument to measure temperature is accurate. Another is that the placement of the instrument in the room is representative of the entire room. Some who wish to measure the temp of the room will value the ceiling temp more highly than the floor temp. Others may value the temp near the heater, more highly than they value the temp at the furthest location from the heater. Another assumption is that the room temp is steady. Room temperature may be flucuating such that by the time one reports 22.5 it is actually 22.4 Strictly speaking objectivity is not possible as it assumes the methods to arrive at conclusions is valid and reliable. There will always be a margin of error in measuring the room temp and an acceptable margin of error relies on the judgment of the measurer. Its the subject making the assumptions, and judgements so it is subjective. There is no external objective criterion for truth. The criterion for truth is always internal; it is always in reference to your own belief system. Your claim that one can prove or disprove an objective comment isn't exactly true. You are buying into the myth of objectivity while over looking your subjective assumptions. 
there is too, the relevance of value: to some 22.5C is valuable, to others they could care less. There is no external objective criterion to assign value. 


2. the Gulf of Tonkin was a story reported by professional journalists, but apparently it is a false story. Iraq needs to be invaded because it is crawling with weapons of mass destruction and is posing an threat is another story reported by pros that is apparently a false story. 

3. Currently we have some news outlets making the (objective?) claim Russia hacked the DNC and influenced the election, while other news outlets challenge them to prove it and they can't. Some journalists will discount such hacking stories due their values, while others will play up the story because they value it more highly. the story will mean different things to different journaists in relation to their personal values. There is no external objective criterion for truth that can solve this issue of aledged Russian hacking - CNN will make of it what they will according to their values, and FOX will do the same according to theirs.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> Personally, I believe that they may have been overzealous in their headlines about the malware on the laptop computer as we don't yet have all the facts. There is no equivalence to a guy like Alex Jones who says that Hillary Clinton was behind the Dallas shootings and that Barack Obama controls the weather with his secret weather weapon. (WaPo may be premature. Alex Jones is presents made up conspiracy theories that wouldn't convince most twelve year olds)


i'm not convinced it is possible to "know all the facts". What does "all the facts" mean? Humans typically recognize that they have to make judgements and evaluations to narrow down what they believe is relevant because it isn't possible to examine "all the facts". Then the veracity of their conclusions rely on the validity and reliablity of their personal judgement and evaluative powers used to narrow down what they looked at. This bears on the issue of objectivity: when we rely on our judgement to narrow down what to look at, we are not refering to an external objective criterion for turth. maybe you mean "all the relevant facts". but then it is a personal judgemnt to determin relevancy, and personal judgement isn't objective.


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## wraphter

> The criterion for truth is always internal; it is always in reference to your own belief system.


You also said that reality is a social construct. 'Social' means a group experience. It means more than one person exists and that they can arrive at a definition of the truth. So the truth is external to the individual.

So which is it?

Does the truth reside in the individual or the group?
You can't have it both ways.

And what about mathematical truth?
Is it completely subjective?

Are you saying 1+1=2 is not true?


----------



## humble_pie

Pluto said:


> One example of fake news was the aproximatly 40 year mantra on low fat diets and the claim that saturated fat was bad for you. a recent review of the origional research revealed that the origional data did not show saturated fat was bad. To the best of my knowledge no professional journalist who wrote on diet and health ever checked the origional data. There is a long history of fake news from professional journalists.




pluto, for shame!

across 30 or 40 years, there were hundreds of thousands of dieticians, nutritionists, family physicians, cardiologists & other MDs who all preached the low-fat religion. There were thousands of studies in dozens of peer-reviewed academic journals including professional periodicals for the medical profession. The entire food manufacturing industry bought into the edicts. An entire generation grew up No Eggs, No Butter, No Cream, Skim Milk Only, Margarine Only.

of course this was news. It was physician-certified dogma. Of course the journalists reported - accurately - what all the dieticians & medical doctors were advocating.

to blame journalists for not having taken it upon themselves to show that the original science was questionable, is wildly inaccurate & cruelly unfair.

as you know very well, science changes, updates & corrects its knowledge all the time. Even when a peer-reviewed new study appears in a prestigious academic or professional journal, there will always be a handful of academics who will disagree with the new knowledge. Which will remain knowledge until another group or generation of scientists manages to invalidate, update, amend or otherwise question the creed.

all that well-trained fact-checked mainstream journalists can ever do is accurately report the latest news.

.


----------



## Nelley

humble_pie said:


> pluto, for shame!
> 
> across 30 or 40 years, there were hundreds of thousands of dieticians, nutritionists, family physicians, cardiologists & other MDs who all preached the low-fat religion. There were thousands of studies in dozens of peer-reviewed academic journals including professional periodicals for the medical profession. The entire food manufacturing industry bought into the edicts. An entire generation grew up No Eggs, No Butter, No Cream, Skim Milk Only, Margarine Only.
> 
> of course this was news. It was physician-certified dogma. Of course the journalists reported - accurately - what all the dieticians & medical doctors were advocating.
> 
> to blame journalists for not having taken it upon themselves to show that the original science was questionable, is wildly inaccurate & cruelly unfair.
> 
> as you know very well, science changes, updates & corrects its knowledge all the time. Even when a peer-reviewed new study appears in a prestigious academic or professional journal, there will always be a handful of academics who will disagree with the new knowledge. Which will remain knowledge until another group or generation of scientists manages to invalidate, update, amend or otherwise question the creed.
> 
> all that well-trained fact-checked mainstream journalists can ever do is accurately report the latest news.
> 
> .


Like you say-hopefully the climate change narrative will be exposed in time like the low fat narrative was exposed.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> you don't report that it was a Russian hack of the electrical grid if it turns out that some lonely employee was just trying to find a Russian bride or was downloading porn.



who but bass player - a well-known cmf troll obsessed with diapers, epipens, sickness, porn & other repellant topics - would try to add a fairytale that the russia-infected Burlington laptop was being used to find either a russian bride or pornography.

the washington post published a legitimate story including the burlington electric laptop infected with russia's christmas gift of the virus Grizzly Steppe. Of course the utility disconnected the laptop from the system. Nothing abnormal here.

of course utilities sweep 24/7 for invading malware. Of course homeland security would publish invading Grizzly Steppe malware code to all US utiities & other critical users the second they could figure it out. Nothing abnormal here. 

only a twisted mind would call this "fake" news.

.


----------



## sags

About a month ago or so, there was a full scale cyber attack on the US that started on one coast and spread methodically across the US to the other coast.

To my knowledge it has not been revealed who was involved, but the probing was searching for potential weaknesses.

The experts say that a full scale cyber attack will be the first sign of impending war. 

The "other side" will try shut down as much as they can to create disruption and panic and perhaps even missile defense systems.

This creates a problem for nations protecting their security. A cyber attack could be a precursor to an attack or probing.

This is a dangerous arena to play in. 

If the US believed an attack was imminent they would launch an attack on the aggressor. 

This is how mistakes happen and wars start. 

Decisions must be made in minutes on the best available intelligence and once the missiles are launched there is no way to cancel.


----------



## humble_pie

^^



yes, exactly.

irrational parties whining about what they mistakenly call "fake news" in the washington post ought to be down on their knees with gratitude that a) they live in a country where the US, NORAD & canada are capable of sweeping for cyber threats 24/7/365; plus b) they should also be grateful that they live in a country where both responsible national media & local community papers are quickly able to pick up breaking stories from wire services.

i am left wondering what the fake news puppets on here would rather see. Would they rather see another 9/11 or a missile attack on north America, while fake news websites warble out that it's only an illusion.

.


----------



## bass player

If it's not true, then it's fake news. Humble can't grasp that very simple concept.


----------



## andrewf

Fake news is not just news that turns out to be untrue. It is news written with no regard for what is true or designed to mislead.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Fake news is not just news that turns out to be untrue. It is news written with no regard for what is true or designed to mislead.


That's right...so saying that "the Russian's hacked the election" is fake news created by the Democrats to mislead the public.


----------



## olivaw

^bass player's confusion appears to stem from a misunderstanding of the word "fake". It does not mean untrue. It certainly does not mean "I don't believe it". It means counterfeit. Think of a fake twenty dollar bill or a fake moustache. There is intent to mislead. 

The WaPo article about the Russian malware on the power company laptop was not made up by WaPo. It was an accurate reporting of the information presented by US government security. It's real news.


----------



## sags

Trump says he has inside knowledge on the hacking that he will reveal on Tuesday or Wednesday.

He still remains skeptical on the findings of the US security agencies. He continues to refer to intelligence mistakes involving WMD in Iraq.

What he seems to fail to grasp, is that there is constant vigilance by a broad range of security agencies every hour of every day.

Planned terrorist attacks, cyber attacks, protection of Americans abroad.........an endless list of in depth security concerns.

Does Trump trust the Secret Service to keep him and his family safe ? Does he trust the DHS to stop terrorist attacks on Trump Tower ?

It seems that Trump's level of mistrust begins and ends with the findings of security agencies involving his election and relationship to Putin.


----------



## sags

The media and security experts are questioning Trump's self assessment of himself as a "hacking" expert.

Considering Trump doesn't use email, doesn't use Google to search for anything, and seldom uses a computer of any kind.......people question where his expertise comes from. He does know how to use Twitter on a smart phone, which he primarily uses as a means of "hollering back" at people for perceived slights against him.

His suggestion that couriers be used to communicate is puzzling in this day and age, where instant information is often required.

Trump talked about Clinton's "failures" in Benghazi. Imagine if the only communications was through couriers arriving days later.

For all his business acumen, Trump appears terribly naive on so many issues.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> If it's not true, then it's fake news. Humble can't grasp that very simple concept.



no, it's you who cannot grasp anything, bass.

the washington post reported a live news event taken off a live news release that the burlington vermont electric department had, following a screening warning, found the russian Grizzly Steppe virus on a laptop. Security steps were immediately taken. End of story.

it's only the perverts who delight in spreading malicious lies who think it's entertaining to pretend somebody at the hydroelectric facility was looking for a russian girl friend.


.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> no, it's you who cannot grasp anything, bass.


Do you have difficulty with reality?

"The Russian's hacked the election" was a deliberate lie by the Democrats in an attempt to mislead people. That's fake news.



humble_pie said:


> the washington post reported a live news event taken off a live news release that the burlington vermont electric department had, following a screening warning, found the russian Grizzly Steppe virus on a laptop. Security steps were immediately taken. End of story.
> 
> it's only the perverts who delight in spreading malicious lies who think it's entertaining to pretend somebody at the hydroelectric facility was looking for a russian girl friend.


What "lie"? I suggested that since no one has proven a Russian hack, that perhaps there was a simple non-malicious explanation. I never once tried to pass it off as fact...that's why I said "perhaps" and made a joke while supposed reputable news sources reported it as a "Russian hack".

You lack the ability to reason which makes you the perfect victim to fall for progressive ideology


----------



## new dog

The thing is the mainstream have an agenda taken to them that they hammer Russia for everything they can. There is hacking and probing going on all the time from many countries especially China.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/asia/china-cyber-spies-hacking/

Why isn't everyone going ape over this or is it just not on the mainstream news agenda. The mainstream media masters have been told to go after Russia so this is their agenda right now. Obama is hoping to cause a big problem with Russia before he leaves office if possible.

What I can't understand is how forum buddies can't see this mainstream agenda right in front of their eyes.


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> What I can't understand is how forum buddies can't see this mainstream agenda right in front of their eyes.




dog we do see. We see all sides. There is no mainstream media agenda. With a free press, we are fortunate enough to be able to sample a broad spectrum of news & opinion. The benefit of democracy is that individuals can make up their own minds.

hard news is hard news. The burlington electric utility story was hard news. The washington post reported the russian Grizzly Steppe virus story correctly. It was based on a press release put out by the utility itself. The post followed with an update that the single infected laptop was immediately isolated from the system & nothing was at risk. The post's stories were backed up by the local Burlington Free Press.

the washington post did not make a mistake. For you to try to push the burlington utility story as an example of fake news was a preposterous assault on reason. Me, i'm writing here because you do this all the time.

repeat: you. do. this. all. the. time. You channel the alt-right & you never bother to look at the rich spectrum of information which, in fact, is fully available to us, as fortunate beneficiaries of a democratic free press.

i'm sorry to have to break the facts to you, dogcom, but no one bothers to look any more at your neverending showoff links to "folks-here's-another-wonderful-news-story-gift-from-zerohedge."

.


----------



## new dog

People are running from the mainstream media because of what I just said, they are tired of the agenda they follow. You lap up everything they say and think it is free and clear, which it is not. I certainly don't lap up zero hedge because I have an open mind. However, I will watch CNN and things because they do have the budget to show news as it is happening even though I know they have an agenda.


----------



## Pluto

humble_pie said:


> pluto, for shame!
> 
> across 30 or 40 years, there were hundreds of thousands of dieticians, nutritionists, family physicians, cardiologists & other MDs who all preached the low-fat religion. There were thousands of studies in dozens of peer-reviewed academic journals including professional periodicals for the medical profession. The entire food manufacturing industry bought into the edicts. An entire generation grew up No Eggs, No Butter, No Cream, Skim Milk Only, Margarine Only.
> 
> of course this was news. It was physician-certified dogma. Of course the journalists reported - accurately - what all the dieticians & medical doctors were advocating.
> 
> to blame journalists for not having taken it upon themselves to show that the original science was questionable, is wildly inaccurate & cruelly unfair.
> 
> as you know very well, science changes, updates & corrects its knowledge all the time. Even when a peer-reviewed new study appears in a prestigious academic or professional journal, there will always be a handful of academics who will disagree with the new knowledge. Which will remain knowledge until another group or generation of scientists manages to invalidate, update, amend or otherwise question the creed.
> 
> all that well-trained fact-checked mainstream journalists can ever do is accurately report the latest news.
> 
> .


I agree all they do is report the latest news. That's why they can't be trusted. 
Note: it isn't new that saturated fat doesn't contribute ti ill health, it was in the origional research some 40 years ago. surely, or perhaps not, medical journalists could have checked and asked quesions. It was fake/counterfit news because the origional researchers knew there was no evidence saturated fat was bad, yest they said it was bad anyway. The significant thing they reported that was true was that trans fat was bad.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> I'll trust our own security agencies


Yes. That is an accurate way of stating it in lieu of claiming objectivity. Objectivity is the unicorn that contemporary science claims exists, but never produces. 
Trusting, believeing, having faith in specific journalists, and methods is a realistic way of stating it.


----------



## humble_pie

Pluto said:


> I agree all they do is report the latest news. That's why they can't be trusted.
> Note: it isn't new that saturated fat doesn't contribute ti ill health, it was in the origional research some 40 years ago. surely, or perhaps not, medical journalists could have checked and asked quesions. It was fake/counterfit news because the origional researchers knew there was no evidence saturated fat was bad, yest they said it was bad anyway. The significant thing they reported that was true was that trans fat was bad.



wondering why you are harping on this old old old story, which is now dead as dishwater.

there was plenty of doubtful reportage. Dr Atkins got a huge press, all in favour of a diet with healthy fats, many years ago.

journalists do not create news. All they can do is report events. When news subjects contradict themselves, journalists can report the contradiction. They can also ask questions in order to draw out contradictions, as journalists are doing with donald trump (he's a somewhat pitifully willing accomplice, so there will definitely be more of the trumpadictions.)

.


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> I certainly don't lap up zero hedge because I have an open mind




lol you really believe you have an open mind?

dog u are the fiercest zerohedge propagandist in the entire forum! you are almost as bad as nelley & bass, with their pitiful links to amateur basement video that nobody bothers to look at any more

.


----------



## Nelley

Here is a new look at this one: if I contact Royal Bank and they say all your money is gone-don't blame us-it aint our fault-Putin took your money-I am not going to be upset with Putin, I am going to be upset with Royal Bank. How did a backward country like Russia all of a sudden vault to the very top of the computer security world, way ahead of the USA (according to many geniuses on this board swallowing MSM crap whole)? Russia won the US election, Brexit, Italy, next Germany and France. Seems like Putin and Russia are on a major roll-what are they doing right and what is the rest of the world doing wrong Einsteins?


----------



## new dog

I think you must of had a nasty new years eve humble, you are really taking it to the house today. 

Russia is the media target right now Nelley until the people finally buy it hopefully. To bad Putin is playing nice because it is driving the media crazy. Don't worry Pluto they haven't forgotten climate change, that is on their long term agenda and hopefully they can get people to buy into their program.


----------



## new dog

Here you go humble this is from Forbes a gold source on the overblown headline and story from the Washington Post destroying the forum buddies perfect mainstream media.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevle...ssian-hacking-of-the-power-grid/#32fc59aa291e


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Here you go humble this is from Forbes a gold source on the overblown headline and story from the Washington Post destroying the forum buddies perfect mainstream media., a mainstream site,
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevle...ssian-hacking-of-the-power-grid/#32fc59aa291e


I believe that you demonstrated humble's point. WaPo, a mainstream site, published "breaking news". Forbes, another mainstream site, published an article which challenged WaPo's narrative. Forbes added valuable insight and clarification to the pool of knowledge available to the public. The beauty of a rich and diverse professional media is that reporting errors are quickly uncovered and revealed.


----------



## sags

There appears to be some dispute if the computer was hooked to the network, due to statements from the utility itself.

In a statement to CNN the utility said they removed the laptop from the network after the malware was discovered.

_"We immediately isolated the machine, *pulled it off the network*, alerted federal authorities and began to work with them," he said._

One would have to think that a company laptop connected to the energy network would not have the capability to surf the internet.

If it did........that energy company has some serious computer security issues.


----------



## bgc_fan

sags said:


> One would have to think that a company laptop connected to the energy network would not have the capability to surf the internet.
> 
> If it did........that energy company has some serious computer security issues.


Actually, that's fairly commonplace now. A lot of control systems are connected through the Internet, e.g. SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) systems, which can be used to control heating plants or power plants, have had remote capabilities for a while. This was identified as vulnerability some years back as there were backdoors in the system that would have allowed hackers to take control of the plant. Before Internet, you would have dial-up or hardcoded lines, but these days, Internet is the easier way to do it.


----------



## Pluto

humble_pie said:


> wondering why you are harping on this old old old story, which is now dead as dishwater.
> 
> there was plenty of doubtful reportage. Dr Atkins got a huge press, all in favour of a diet with healthy fats, many years ago.
> 
> journalists do not create news. All they can do is report events.
> 
> .


they are supposed to investigage to make sure they in fact are reporting events. 40 years of reporting something that wasn't true, while for all thsoe 40 years the facts were available to them that it wasn't true, isn't reporting events. And is surely wasn't investigative. 

Mainstream media does have an agenda or two or three. The main one is to make money. They write and edit to achieve the most sales, and to keep their jobs. Media outlets also have a political perspective, and tend to shape things to put their preferred political philosophy in a good light. For example, CNN and Fox news do not portray the world in exactly the same way due to their differing perspectives on how the world should be. They have an agenda to pursuade viewers to their particuloar perspective.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> I believe that you demonstrated humble's point. WaPo, a mainstream site, published "breaking news". Forbes, another mainstream site, published an article which challenged WaPo's narrative. Forbes added valuable insight and clarification to the pool of knowledge available to the public. The beauty of a rich and diverse professional media is that reporting errors are quickly uncovered and revealed.


That time, they changed their tune quickly. It can happen quickly, but it doesn't always. It can take decades or maybe never to report fix unreilable reporting on a subject. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

Chompsky's view seems more reliable to me.

https://www.youtube.com/results?q=manufacturing+consent


----------



## olivaw

Not to worry. Donald Trump says heknow things that others don't about Russian hacking. He'll share his insider information on Tuesday or Wednesday. 


On nutrition - is there really a scandal or debate here? The message from docs and nutritionalists doesn't appear to have changed much in 50 years. A healthy diet includes a balance of fats, proteins and carbohydrates. If you want to lose weight, take in less calories than you burn. Sometimes I think people like to say that doctors and nutritionalists keep changing their minds because they don't want to take that particular advise.


----------



## humble_pie

Pluto said:


> they are supposed to investigage to make sure they in fact are reporting events. 40 years of reporting something that wasn't true, while for all thsoe 40 years the facts were available to them that it wasn't true, isn't reporting events. And is surely wasn't investigative.



oh, let's not act like bumps on logs. If you insist on going backwards nearly half-a-century, the people to attack are the hundreds of thousands - nay, millions - of dieticians & MDs who preached the low-fat diet to all of their patients, everywhere in north america, all of the time, across several decades.

journalists had nothing to do with the situation. It was never up to journalists to take upon themselves the task of re-investigating what was official, orthodox medical credo as published in all the relevant professional periodicals. As i've stated, journalists simply reported what the medical authorities were saying.

i've also said that there were plenty of disbelievers throughout all those decades. Famously there was dr Atkins & his followers. Among my own family & friends, i never knew any person - not one single person - who paid any attention to the low-fat-high-carbohydrate preachings. Instead, everybody carried on with the traditional cuisine, call it french, call it mediterranean, call it greek, whatever.

.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> Not to worry. Donald Trump says heknow things that others don't about Russian hacking. He'll share his insider information on Tuesday or Wednesday.
> 
> 
> On nutrition - is there really a scandal or debate here? The message from docs and nutritionalists doesn't appear to have changed much in 50 years. A healthy diet includes a balance of fats, proteins and carbohydrates.


Nope. they said saturated fat was bad for you, and eat a low fat diet even though their own research, some 40 years ago, did not say saturated fat was bad. Medical/health journalists didn't call them on it. Then they couldn't figure out why the French were healthy despite their fat rich diet. 

Anyway, I get your point. You are happy with journalists having faith in what they are told, and not engaging in critical thinking and checking.


----------



## Pluto

humble_pie said:


> journalists had nothing to do with the situation. It was never up to journalists to take upon themselves the task of re-investigating what was official, orthodox medical credo as published in all the relevant professional periodicals. As i've stated, journalists simply reported what the medical authorities were saying..


I get your point. You are happy with medical journaists just believeing and reporting what they are told. And if they report somthing that is false it is not their fault for being medeocre, uncritical, and not checking. I prefer journaists who engage in investigation and critical thinking. They are under the gun from editors, media outlet owners, and political pressures, as well as their own personal beliefs, which are apparently factors that can transform a so called free press into a misinformation machine. The nutrition illustration was just that: an example of how the media became an instrument of US Surgeon General propaganda. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent


----------



## Spudd

The difference is, in the regular journalistic field (MSM) the journalists are trying their best to report the facts about what is happening. In "fake news" like this thread was started to discuss, the fake news outlets are making things up on purpose in order to get page-views and/or distort public opinion.


----------



## Nelley

Spudd said:


> The difference is, in the regular journalistic field (MSM) the journalists are trying their best to report the facts about what is happening. In "fake news" like this thread was started to discuss, the fake news outlets are making things up on purpose in order to get page-views and/or distort public opinion.


No-that is the opposite of reality on this one. The reason many sources you label as "fake news" are thriving is because of superior product, not magic. News junkies consume all sources, the ones you fear and the MSM also. They hear both sides of every argument, not just one side.


----------



## Pluto

Spudd said:


> The difference is, in the regular journalistic field (MSM) the journalists are trying their best to report the facts about what is happening. In "fake news" like this thread was started to discuss, the fake news outlets are making things up on purpose in order to get page-views and/or distort public opinion.


In the mainstream media (any media actually) they are trying their best to please their editors, management, and owners as well as their own personal beliefs. Facts are selected, deselected, interpreted, and presented according to a value system that the media outlet defines.


----------



## Spudd

Pluto said:


> In the mainstream media (any media actually) they are trying their best to please their editors, management, and owners as well as their own personal beliefs. Facts are selected, deselected, interpreted, and presented according to a value system that the media outlet defines.


Sure, that's true, but I don't think any of them are outright making things up.


----------



## Nelley

Spudd said:


> Sure, that's true, but I don't think any of them are outright making things up.


Newsflash-what you think doesn't determine reality.


----------



## Spudd

Nelley said:


> Newsflash-what you think doesn't determine reality.


Nor you.


----------



## bass player

Spudd said:


> Sure, that's true, but I don't think any of them are outright making things up.


Of course they did. Dan Rather lied. So did Brian Williams. Both worked for mainstream media.


----------



## Pluto

Spudd said:


> Sure, that's true, but I don't think any of them are outright making things up.


There is no neutral ground upon which professional (or nonprofessional) journaists report events. They always have a perspective. EG: The way CNN reports the Hillary-Bengazhi fiasco will be different from the way Fox News reports it. A democratic oriented journalist would probably perfer a job at CNN, and a Republican journaist would probably prefer a job at fox news due to their differing personal beliefs. One side will downplay and create doubt about responsiblity for a given fiasco, while the other side will paly it up, point fingers, and demand accountability. 

There is no neutral ground to appeal to to solve such differing views. Often they can't even agree on the facts. That's because a perspective selects facts that support it, and deselect or devalue facts that don't support it. 

Readers/viewers of media have thier own personal beliefs as well and tend to side with the media outlet that best conforms to their own perspective. 

A news example: Ford cancels huge plant in Mexico and plans to build in Michigan. Value is evident as Mexican media will report this as bad news, while Michigan media will likely see and report it as good news. There is no neutral ground upon which to decide it it is good or bad news. The good/bad evaluation all depends on who you are. The criteria for truth is what it means to oneself. So, in a sense, they are making it up. The mexican's make it up to be bad, while the Michigan reporters make it up to be good - and they can both be right eventhough they have a different conclusion. They can both be right because there is no neutral ground to determine the truth of this matter.


----------



## new dog

Besides the agenda they must follow I think you have it about right Pluto.

Here is a good headline from Alex Jones who people here accuse of being anti-sementic but most think he is actually pro Israel and pro jew. I didn't bother listening to the rant because who knows if it is true or not but if you read the some of the comments below they are accusing him of being pro Israel and pro jew.

http://www.infowars.com/soros-launches-plan-to-bring-down-us-and-israel/


----------



## wraphter

pluto said:


> Value is evident as Mexican media will report this as bad news, while Michigan media will likely see and report it as good news.


So the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico slaughters 25 people of all ages in a small village.
Please explain how there are two sides to this story.

How it can be both good and bad.

A plane crashes in the mountains of Peru.
There are no survivors.

How is this a good thing?


----------



## new dog

Trump believes Assange as he repeatedly says he has nothing to do with Putin or Russia in his interview on Fox news Hannity interview. Assange also believes they are trying to delegitimize Trump before he gets into office by using the Russia thing and ignoring the stuff that China has done in hacking and such. He also says he has a perfect record in authenticating the stuff they publish and have never been proven wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx8gCNQTij0


----------



## bass player

wraphter said:


> So the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico slaughters 25 people of all ages in a small village.
> Please explain how there are two sides to this story.
> 
> How it can be both good and bad.
> 
> A plane crashes in the mountains of Peru.
> There are no survivors.
> 
> How is this a good thing?


It was suggested how a normal business action can be interpreted as to be "good" or "bad" depending on how people are affected, and then you come along and suggest that there must also be a good side to murder and/or a plane crash.

So, in this case, it's a good thing because it has exposed that you are unable to reason or carry on an intelligent conversation.


----------



## Pluto

wraphter said:


> So the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico slaughters 25 people of all ages in a small village.
> Please explain how there are two sides to this story.
> 
> How it can be both good and bad.
> 
> A plane crashes in the mountains of Peru.
> There are no survivors.
> 
> How is this a good thing?


It isn't necessary for there to be both both good and bad in every event for a value to be in them. The airplane crash is apparently bad, unless all the passangers were Sinaloa cartel members. In the latter case, victims of the cartel would see it as good whereas those who benifited from the cartel might see it as a setback.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Trump believes Assange as he repeatedly says he has nothing to do with Putin or Russia in his interview on Fox news Hannity interview. Assange also believes they are trying to delegitimize Trump before he gets into office by using the Russia thing and ignoring the stuff that China has done in hacking and such. He also says he has a perfect record in authenticating the stuff they publish and have never been proven wrong.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx8gCNQTij0


Trump quoted Assange but he is not credible. 

The evidence of Russian involvement is physical: everything from traces of Russian malware to Russian style manipulation of the content. 

CNN reports that Trump proposed the death penalty for Assange in 2010. I doubt that Trump trusts Assange now. It's expedient to muddy the waters.


----------



## Nelley

Great article by Glenn Greenwald on the current champion of Fake News-The Washington Post https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04...about-russia-threat-while-public-is-deceived/


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> The evidence of Russian involvement is physical: everything from traces of Russian malware to Russian style manipulation of the content.
> 
> .


it could be. However, I'm having a difficult time imagining the Russians making it so easy to point the finger at them. Are you sure it wasn't somone else who then left traces pointing away from themselves and to the Russians? 

CNN is interpreting the physical evidence, as one is always requried to do. Their interpretation isn't necessarily the truth.


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> It isn't necessary for there to be both both good and bad in every event for a value to be in them. The airplane crash is apparently bad, unless all the passangers were Sinaloa cartel members. In the latter case, victims of the cartel would see it as good whereas those who benifited from the cartel might see it as a setback.


There is no absolute - ever. But the lack of an absolute does not negate truth in the context of the discussion. If a plane crashed and a media organization reports it, then that media organization is reporting accurately. One might complain that the reporter showed insufficient/too much empathy for the victims One cannot accuse the reporter of issuing fake news. 

If one website claims that the the plane was seized from the sky by Godzilla and thrown to the ground then a reasonable person would conclude that the website is presenting fake news in support of a conspiracy theory.

In this forum, we have two individuals who base their world view on conspiracy theories. If Alex Jones or ZH told them that Godzilla was responsible, they would repeat it here. If you posted a link to the black box report, one would call you a sheep. The other would say the black box report was "fake news". These individuals don't contribute to an open and balanced discussion. They do this:


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> There is no absolute - ever. But the lack of an absolute does not negate truth in the context of the discussion. If a plane crashed and a media organization reports it, then that media organization is reporting accurately. One might complain that the reporter showed insufficient/too much empathy for the victims One cannot accuse the reporter of issuing fake news.
> 
> If one website claims that the the plane was seized from the sky by Godzilla and thrown to the ground then a reasonable person would conclude that the website is presenting fake news in support of a conspiracy theory.
> 
> In this forum, we have two individuals who base their world view on conspiracy theories. If Alex Jones or ZH told them that Godzilla was responsible, they would repeat it here. If you posted a link to the black box report, one would call you a sheep. The other would say the black box report was "fake news". These individuals don't contribute to an open and balanced discussion. They do this:


Get with the times-nobody says Conspiracy Theorist anymore-the new term is Russian Agent.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> There is no absolute - ever. But the lack of an absolute does not negate truth in the context of the discussion. If a plane crashed and a media organization reports it, then that media organization is reporting accurately. One cannot accuse the reporter of issuing fake news.
> 
> If one website claims that the the plane was seized from the sky by Godzilla and thrown to the ground then a reasonable person would conclude that the website is presenting fake news in support of a conspiracy theory.
> 
> ]


You assume there was a plane crash based on a report from a source you trust as long as they don't say Godzilla caused it. You see you are saying "If" there was a crash, and it was reported, then it is accurate. The "if" is you acknowedging the assumption. But what if there wasn't a crash, and an outlet you trust reported there was? 

We do get duped from time to time by trusted media. some of the most historically relevant duping were fake events to justify a war. by the time the dupe is uncovered, if ever, it is too late. Years ago I got duped by the humans cause global warming scam, until I discovered, by accident, an alternative viable scientific view that was not getting represented in mainstream media, and, I dare say, still isn't. 

All news isn't like ones everyday ordinary plane crash that multiple cultures can relate to as tragic. Much of the news is permeated by the values of the society the news outlet dwells in. Some people think dropping the A bomb was necessary and saved lives. Other people think Japan offered a conditional surrender (keep the Emperor) prior to the bomb drop. In that case, more lives could have been saved by accepting the conditional surrender. so what's the truth? Depends on who you ask.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Get with the times-nobody says Conspiracy Theorist anymore-the new term is Russian Agent.


Seems unfair. 

I suppose it's possible that you are on the Kremlin's payroll but Occam's razor says that you are a tin foil hatter.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Seems unfair.
> 
> I suppose it's possible that you are on the Kremlin's payroll but Occam's razor says that you are a tin foil hatter.


My point is that you are so well trained by the MSM that it has never occurred to you that this whole Putin and Russian agents thing is one of the most outlandishly ridiculous Conspiracy Theories ever-it is right up there with Elvis sightings.


----------



## olivaw

Pluto said:


> You assume there was a plane crash based on a report from a source you trust as long as they don't say Godzilla caused it. You see you are saying "If" there was a crash, and it was reported, then it is accurate. The "if" is you acknowedging the assumption. But what if there wasn't a crash, and an outlet you trust reported there was?
> 
> We do get duped from time to time by trusted media. some of the most historically relevant duping were fake events to justify a war. by the time the dupe is uncovered, if ever, it is too late. Years ago I got duped by the humans cause global warming scam, until I discovered, by accident, an alternative viable scientific view that was not getting represented in mainstream media, and, I dare say, still isn't.
> 
> All news isn't like ones everyday ordinary plane crash that multiple cultures can relate to as tragic. Much of the news is permeated by the values of the society the news outlet dwells in. Some people think dropping the A bomb was necessary and saved lives. Other people think Japan offered a conditional surrender (keep the Emperor) prior to the bomb drop. In that case, more lives could have been saved by accepting the conditional surrender. so what's the truth? Depends on who you ask.


Certainly the plane crash must have happened for the news story to be true but a reasonable person can accept that a plane crash reported by numerous independent sources actually happened. The truth can be verified independently. (In my example, Alex Jones did not dispute the crash, he offered a nonsensical explanation for it). 

Some things are not knowable. The outcome of the war if the American president had chosen not to use nuclear weapons can be speculated but not known. 

(IMO the president cared about the lives of American servicemen more than he cared about the lives of Japanese civilians. ).


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> My point is that you are so well trained by the MSM that it has never occurred to you that this whole Putin and Russian agents thing is one of the most outlandishly ridiculous Conspiracy Theories ever-it is right up there with Elvis sightings.


In this thread you have attempted to make the Russian hacking story seem less credible by exaggerating it and ridiculing your own exaggeration. 

We can't 100% know the truth but a reasonable person can believe American security agencies when they say that there is evidence that Russia was behind the hacks. AFAIK the evidence is consistent between the computer logs, alterations to the content and the manner in which the content was released. The pattern is consistent with past Russian hacking behaviour. This story relies on credible sources so it is nothing at all like the crackpot Alex Jones conspiracy theories that you parrot.

America interferes with other countries. Russia interferes. Britain, France, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Japan ... the list of countries with a history of meddling in other people's business goes on and on.


----------



## Nelley

Good summary of the creation and nurturing of ISIS by Obama and Crooked Hillary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upo-wQ1np6o


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> We can't 100% know the truth but a reasonable person can believe American security agencies when they say that there is evidence that Russia was behind the hacks.


Fake news. No one has confirmed that Russia was responsible, and no one has provided evidence.


----------



## new dog

That is what Assange says in the interview that no hard evidence is provided showing Russia did it.

Pluto I really like how much you think and are not controlled by what the mainstream or so called fake media presents. Your posts are exactly what I think like. The mainstream media is a very dangerous tool used by the government to justify actions like using an atomic bomb, blaming countries for actions without clear evidence to justify war. Or it is used to shape an argument like how we handle climate change. 

It is obvious right now that the government wants the public focused on Russia as a bad guy and has employed the media to push this. The media does so without question which tells me it is not properly reporting the news.


----------



## new dog

Olivaw your point about everyone interferes with each other is a point I made before. So how can the media justify its unbalanced attack on Russia when this is true.


----------



## sags

A cyber security expert was interviewed today, and he said they actually watched the hacking while it was happening for two weeks.

They traced the source by the destination the hacked information was feeding back to. 

They identified the computers and the addresses of the ISP. They know the computer terminals, building and names of the hackers.

Some suspect there is more behind Trump's denials than simple ignorance.


----------



## sags

new dog said:


> That is what Assange says in the interview that no hard evidence is provided showing Russia did it.
> 
> Pluto I really like how much you think and are not controlled by what the mainstream or so called fake media presents. Your posts are exactly what I think like. The mainstream media is a very dangerous tool used by the government to justify actions like using an atomic bomb, blaming countries for actions without clear evidence to justify war. Or it is used to shape an argument like how we handle climate change.
> 
> It is obvious right now that the government wants the public focused on Russia as a bad guy and has employed the media to push this. The media does so without question which tells me it is not properly reporting the news.


Assange said the leaked information wasn't provided by the "Russian government". 

He was careful and deceptive in his wording.

Whoever actually handed over the information may very well have been someone other than the hackers or Russians.

But there is no doubt on who hacked the computers to get the information.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> Fake news. No one has confirmed that Russia was responsible, and no one has provided evidence.


What would you consider absolute evidence ?

A video...........you would say it was altered.

A confession.....you would say it was forced.

If the Americans have spies within the Russian organization that did the hacking, do you want their names as well ?

The guy who ran the dark drugs and guns website "Silk Road" thought he was security safe. 

He routed the complicated internet connections from all over the world.

It took some time, but US cyber experts traced everything back and arrested the guy in an internet cafe in San Francisco.

He is now serving life in prison without parole.

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-1/


----------



## new dog

Even if it does turn out to be the Russians, it does not hide the facts that everyone is guilty of these sorts of things. It also doesn't give Hillary and her gang a clean record. It does however give a distraction from all the wrong doings of the democrats and others which at the end of the day is all they care about and also make it Trump and Russia's fault.


----------



## sags

If the hacking was successful is not relevant.

The US simply cannot allow a foreign government a free pass to hack into the computer systems of the US government, business or individuals. It is a very dangerous game in a world full of nuclear weapons.

As Republican Senator John McCain said........it is an act of war.

When the military command believe that cyber warfare may precede a physical attack, it would be extremely dangerous for the US to believe an attack was imminent due to cyber hacking. They may decide to launch their missiles before they are destroyed in their silos.

I forget which President it was, but the US very nearly launched a full nuclear assault on Russia when a US computer system glitch showed there was an incoming attack coming from Russia.

The President was a few minutes away from launching the missiles, when the Russians contacted the US and convinced them to wait because it was a computer glitch.

The US recently renewed their "launch first" pledge if they believe they are threatened by an attack.

So close...........and most people don't even know how close to nuclear war the world has come in the past.

http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapons/hair-trigger-alert/close-calls#.WG2xnPkrKUk


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> If the hacking was successful is not relevant.
> 
> The US simply cannot allow a foreign government a free pass to hack into the computer systems of the US government, business or individuals. It is a very dangerous game in a world full of nuclear weapons.
> 
> As Republican Senator John McCain said........it is an act of war.
> 
> When the military command believe that cyber warfare may precede a physical attack, it would be extremely dangerous for the US to believe an attack was imminent due to cyber hacking. They may decide to launch their missiles before they are destroyed in their silos.
> 
> I forget which President it was, but the US very nearly launched a full nuclear assault on Russia when a US computer system glitch showed there was an incoming attack coming from Russia.
> 
> The President was a few minutes away from launching the missiles, when the Russians contacted the US and convinced them to wait because it was a computer glitch.
> 
> The US recently renewed their "launch first" pledge if they believe they are threatened by an attack.
> 
> So close...........and most people don't even know how close to nuclear war the world has come in the past.
> 
> http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapons/hair-trigger-alert/close-calls#.WG2xnPkrKUk


Is there anything the far left sheep won't swallow? Obviously not.


----------



## new dog

I have to agree with nelly here. There is daily hacking going on by everyone, so why is this so different.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> Some things are not knowable. The outcome of the war if the American president had chosen not to use nuclear weapons can be speculated but not known.
> 
> (IMO the president cared about the lives of American servicemen more than he cared about the lives of Japanese civilians. ).


But you are skirting around an alternative perspective. Reportedly, they offered a conditional surrender prior to the bomb. Reportedly, Truman wanted an unconditional surrender, and so dropped the bomb. If this version is true, it wasn't about saving lives, it was about obtaining an unconditional surrender. This is an illustration of what I am talking about: the spin that a particular society puts on their actions to justify them, and the cooperation of the media to spin it. You see it could be that the media and historians decided to leave the offer to surrender out of the narritive, as you are doing in your response, to make the story more palitable.

https://mises.org/library/hiroshima-myth


----------



## bass player

It seems that gullible news can be worse than fake news. Some gullible fools on the left think that North Carolina is worse than North Korea:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443519/gullible-news-worse-problem-fake-news


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Even if it does turn out to be the Russians, it does not hide the facts that everyone is guilty of these sorts of things. It also doesn't give Hillary and her gang a clean record. It does however give a distraction from all the wrong doings of the democrats and others which at the end of the day is all they care about and also make it Trump and Russia's fault.


The police do not ignore a crime when the victim has an outstanding parking ticket and the American government will not ignore the crime committed by the Russians if the Democrats and Republicans have done unsavoury things. 

BTW: Hillary Clinton won't be sworn in on Jan 20th. References to her seem more like distraction than debate.


----------



## bass player

Spudd said:


> Sure, that's true, but I don't think any of them are outright making things up.


You need to retract that comment. Both Dan Rather and Brian Williams were fired/resigned in disgrace for lying on the air.

Also, CNN has been caught outright lying several times.


----------



## new dog

Good link and good point about gullible news bass.

Olivaw no government should ignore crimes or hacking or whatever. The Russian thing however is the new talking point and that is why it gets a lot more attention then worse crimes being committed probably every day.


----------



## new dog

Listen to CNN on the white guy captured and tortured and the one guest in the beginning is trying to blame the Trump effect instead of being a hate crime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv25bPGoxw4

If a black guy is captured and tortured it would be called evil and everything yet Don Lemon thinks it is not. I do agree with him but I don't think he would say it that way if it was a black guy captured.


----------



## bass player

4 black people torture a white man yelling "F*ck white people" and the motive is "unclear", yet when a white cop defends his life against a black man with a gun they all cry "it must be because of race".

That's fake news that is deliberately done to promote racial disharmony and the Democrat agenda that all white people are racist.


----------



## Spudd

bass player said:


> You need to retract that comment. Both Dan Rather and Brian Williams were fired/resigned in disgrace for lying on the air.
> 
> Also, CNN has been caught outright lying several times.


OK, good point, but when it came out they admitted it and resigned/were fired. I don't see Alex Jones quitting his job in disgrace any time soon.


----------



## bass player

Spudd said:


> OK, good point, but when it came out they admitted it and resigned/were fired. I don't see Alex Jones quitting his job in disgrace any time soon.


The difference is that Alex Jones is fringe and not taken seriously by anyone...and therefore is irrelevant. One could find several left wing sites just as fringe and just as inaccurate.

CBS, NBC, and CNN are different...they are national mainstream media sources with Whitehouse access that have been around for decades and who claim journalistic integrity.


----------



## bass player

"Six months after the FBI first said it was investigating the hack of the Democratic National Committee’s computer network, the bureau has still not requested access to the hacked servers, a DNC spokesman said. No US government entity has run an independent forensic analysis on the system, one US intelligence official told BuzzFeed News."

If this is true, then no one in the government even looked at the DNC servers before coming to a conclusion?

"Beginning at the time the intrusion was discovered by the DNC, the DNC cooperated fully with the FBI and its investigation, providing access to all of the information uncovered by CrowdStrike — without any limits,” said Walker..."

Sure, let's all just blindly accept that the DNC turned over ALL the relevant information to the government, lol. Worthy of note is the fact that this information never once came up in the hearing earlier today when the government stated their conclusions.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alimwatkin...mputer-servers?utm_term=.jq2prMj5Q#.kcjLyb92M

Something smells...


----------



## Spudd

bass player said:


> The difference is that Alex Jones is fringe and not taken seriously by anyone...and therefore is irrelevant. One could find several left wing sites just as fringe and just as inaccurate.
> 
> CBS, NBC, and CNN are different...they are national mainstream media sources with Whitehouse access that have been around for decades and who claim journalistic integrity.


I thought this whole thread was about sites such as Infowars, and that's what Olivaw & company were arguing against.


----------



## Pluto

new dog said:


> That is what Assange says in the interview that no hard evidence is provided showing Russia did it.
> 
> Pluto I really like how much you think and are not controlled by what the mainstream or so called fake media presents. Your posts are exactly what I think like. The mainstream media is a very dangerous tool used by the government to justify actions like using an atomic bomb, blaming countries for actions without clear evidence to justify war. Or it is used to shape an argument like how we handle climate change.
> 
> It is obvious right now that the government wants the public focused on Russia as a bad guy and has employed the media to push this. The media does so without question which tells me it is not properly reporting the news.


1. I'm sure that I have been controled by the media, at least in the past when I believed in the cult of objectivity and neutrality. Once I realized objectivity and neutrality was a myth, I hope I became less prone to manipulation. There is not one reality, there are a plurality of realities depending on cultural and political perspective. 
2. the media ought to abandon its claims to objectivity and neutrality. Each media outlet should identify and declare its perspective and assumptions. then there can be a dialogue between differing perspectives instead of arguing about who is objective, when nobody is, or can be. 
3. Yes, Obama clearly wants the spotlight on Russia. I think the media cooperates pretty mcuh according to viewership ratings. When a higher rated story comes along they will give it priority. So I think the government has to manipulate them, more so than direct control.


----------



## bass player

Spudd said:


> I thought this whole thread was about sites such as Infowars, and that's what Olivaw & company were arguing against.


The title of the thread is called "fake news", not "fake news by right leaning sites only"...  I know some people choose to ignore the fake news that doesn't fit their agenda, but that's their issue to overcome.

This election has proven how dishonest the mainstream media really is, and they don't like being held accountable. However, lies from the mainstream media are much more serious and have much more severe consequences than fringe sites like Infowars.


----------



## new dog

Bass has it right and the only reason we focus more on Alex Jones and Zerohedge is because they are more in our face it seems then the other ones.

However Spudd you should listen to some of the other people running pieces on Info Wars other then Alex Jones and you will get a big dose of reality. They run some pretty good reports that really shed light on the misinformation or hypocrisy of people on the left. Here I just quickly looked and pulled this off of info wars on basic forms of fake news. It also adds to what Pluto said.

http://www.infowars.com/ten-basic-forms-of-fake-news-used-by-major-media/


----------



## Nelley

Alex Jones interviews guests such as Seymour Hersh-and these guests speak their mind.


----------



## Nelley

Infowars does a good analysis of the CNN "not a hate crime, kids will be kids, Trump is bad" story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYMeDi6lmak


----------



## new dog

Great example for Spudd or anyone else to listen to Nelley.


----------



## bass player

The sad thing about that video is that CNN's actions don't surprise me in the least....


----------



## sags

Trump's Twitter account is likely to be hacked again, as it was in the past.

An app has already been developed to track Trump's Twitter statements on major companies, so alerts can be issued and the companies stock shorted.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/05/dona...is-a-security-disaster-waiting-to-happen.html


----------



## new dog

It can be used both ways up or down depending on the tweet. It gives investors a heads up if he is talking about your company.


----------



## new dog

Nelley were is James and the gang on this.

chicago kidnapping what they are not telling you, type this on Utube.

I can't get the link put up for some reason but still were is James and friends on this. I think it is because they have no defence for this and realize their white supremacy thing is overblown.


----------



## sags

CNN gives a seat to different opinions, so there are some guests on the panels who hold objectionable or questionable views on matters.

That is what news reporting and discussion is supposed to be. A discussion of divergent views.

Infowars and Fox News are echo chambers, where all the comments come from one viewpoint.

The young people have been charged with hate crimes in this incident, along with other serious charges. 

It is reported that the victim and one of the perpetrators were friends who spent the day together. 

They met with the others, a fight ensued and this is how it ended up.

I don't think there is a simple answer to what is going on there. 

A lot of hatred, poor parenting, mental disorders, drugs, product of their environment, or pure evil......who knows.

They are going to have a lot of time to think about it though. They are probably looking to at least 10 years in adult prison.


----------



## sags

That it happened in Chicago isn't surprising.

I watched a show the other day, and they showed all the bullet holes in the bricks in the houses where the kids play every day.

It is out of control in some areas of Chicago. Even the police fear to enter certain areas.

I visited Chicago on a high school trip way back in 1966. The school took us to a rough area to show us what drugs lead to.

We visited a men's mission, and walked over people laying in the streets. It scared the heck right out of all of us.

That school has been drug free since it opened in the 1960s. Maybe those school officials know how to get the message across.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> I don't think there is a simple answer to what is going on there.
> 
> A lot of hatred, poor parenting, mental disorders, drugs, product of their environment, or pure evil......who knows.


That's good sags...make every excuse in the books, don't you dare suggest racism when black people torture a white person and scream "f*ck white people". Don't even think it...it might cause you mental anguish.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Assange said the leaked information wasn't provided by the "Russian government".
> 
> He was careful and deceptive in his wording.
> 
> Whoever actually handed over the information may very well have been someone other than the hackers or Russians.
> 
> But there is no doubt on who hacked the computers to get the information.


The FBI never looked at the DNC servers because the DNC refused to let them. And, yet they are "confident" that Russia hacked them? How do they know this? Even racist and hard left CNN was forced to report on this.

"The FBI repeatedly stressed to DNC officials the necessity of obtaining direct access to servers and data, only to be rebuffed until well after the initial compromise had been mitigated," a senior law enforcement official told CNN. "This left the FBI no choice but to rely upon a third party for information. These actions caused significant delays and inhibited the FBI from addressing the intrusion earlier."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/fbi-russia-hacking-dnc-crowdstrike/

We all look forward to your retraction for spreading fake news....


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> That's good sags...make every excuse in the books, don't you dare suggest racism....


I also observed racism was absent from his list, and the very real "evil" category was placed last because many Liberals and ultra-Liberals don't believe it exists.

Some have another category for pure evil, just "crazy". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XRO4UGSiQo


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> I also observed racism was absent from his list, and the very real "evil" category was placed last because many Liberals and ultra-Liberals don't believe it exists.
> 
> Some have another category for pure evil, just "crazy". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XRO4UGSiQo


Trudeau once stated that we should stop calling female genital mutilation or honour killings "barbaric"....and he also praised murderous dictator Castro until he was shamed into making a retraction...which, of course he never really meant. There is no evil that Muslims or communists can do that will draw the wrath of liberals...they will continue to praise them while they kill everyone that stands in their way.

And then there is the Trudeau Foundation...accepting foreign donations in a pay for play scheme similar to the Clinton Foundation.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> The FBI never looked at the DNC servers because the DNC refused to let them. And, yet they are "confident" that Russia hacked them? How do they know this? Even racist and hard left CNN was forced to report on this.
> 
> "The FBI repeatedly stressed to DNC officials the necessity of obtaining direct access to servers and data, only to be rebuffed until well after the initial compromise had been mitigated," a senior law enforcement official told CNN. "This left the FBI no choice but to rely upon a third party for information. These actions caused significant delays and inhibited the FBI from addressing the intrusion earlier."
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/fbi-russia-hacking-dnc-crowdstrike/
> 
> We all look forward to your retraction for spreading fake news....


First they draw their conclusion/announce the answer, then later they go looking for evidence to back it up.


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> Nelley were is James and the gang on this.
> 
> chicago kidnapping what they are not telling you, type this on Utube.
> 
> I can't get the link put up for some reason but still were is James and friends on this. I think it is because they have no defence for this and realize their white supremacy thing is overblown.


I think James is desperately searching for a white supremacist story somewhere. He will return.


----------



## bass player

Nelley said:


> First they draw their conclusion/announce the answer, then later they go looking for evidence to back it up.


The climate alarmists did exactly the same thing. First they declared that mankind and only mankind was destroying the planet, then the IPCC was created to study "man-made impact on climate"...not "if there was a problem with man-made impact on the climate", then they issued heavily altered reports that magically confirmed their agenda. And then the government funding taps were opened wide. 

Anyone who disagreed with the declared "consensus" was immediately called a denier...after all, the goal was to protect the funding at all costs, and to do that, anyone with a differing opinion had to be immediately shut down. However, it appears that the wheels are finally falling off the climate scare bandwagon...fewer and fewer people believe the BS, and unfortunately (for the alarmists), the planet hasn't cooperated with their claims, so then they started altering the raw data calling it "homogenization", lol.

Sadly, when all the dust settles, no one will be held accountable.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> The climate alarmists did exactly the same thing. First they declared that mankind and only mankind was destroying the planet, then the IPCC was created to study "man-made impact on climate"...not "if there was a problem with man-made impact on the climate", then they issued heavily altered reports that magically confirmed their agenda. And then the government funding taps were opened wide.
> 
> Anyone who disagreed with the declared "consensus" was immediately called a denier...after all, the goal was to protect the funding at all costs, and to do that, anyone with a differing opinion had to be immediately shut down. However, it appears that the wheels are finally falling off the climate scare bandwagon...fewer and fewer people believe the BS, and unfortunately (for the alarmists), the planet hasn't cooperated with their claims. Ss, then they started altering the raw data calling it "homogenization", lol.
> 
> Sadly, when all the dust settles, no one will be held accountable.


If the climate scammers had started their trip earlier (say 40 years ago) there would have been very little talk of deniers because the truth would die on the vine-without the internet there is no way possible to get the truth out globally on any subject. A few scientists would speak the truth but very few people would be aware of this.


----------



## bass player

Nelley said:


> If the climate scammers had started their trip earlier (say 40 years ago) there would have been very little talk of deniers because the truth would die on the vine-without the internet there is no way possible to get the truth out globally on any subject. A few scientists would speak the truth but very few people would be aware of this.


Without the internet, there would be no Trump presidency and no stopping the climate gravy train. The mainstream media is nothing but a propaganda arm of the Democrat and Liberal parties.

Trump did the impossible and destroyed the mainstream media. For that, everyone should be thankful...


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> And then there is the Trudeau Foundation...accepting foreign donations in a pay for play scheme similar to the Clinton Foundation.


Speaking of which, what a great job the ethics watchdog is doing. :hypnotysed:


----------



## new dog

John Harwood ask who the American people believe Wiki leaks or US intelligence. It appears the people believe Wiki leaks by a large margin sorry forum buddies.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...do-you-believe-america-gets-surprising-answer


----------



## bass player

It's easy for people to lose trust in US intelligence agencies when Bill Clinton gets on a plane with Loretta Lynch, or when Comey reads long Clinton's list of crimes aloud on TV and then stated with a straight face that no one would reasonably prosecute her.


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> John Harwood ask who the American people believe Wiki leaks or US intelligence. It appears the people believe Wiki leaks by a large margin sorry forum buddies.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...do-you-believe-america-gets-surprising-answer


It is because of the Internet-every day more people are waking up-which is why there is this push to lock it down.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> It's easy for people to lose trust in US intelligence agencies when Bill Clinton gets on a plane with Loretta Lynch, or when Comey reads long Clinton's list of crimes aloud on TV and then stated with a straight face that no one would reasonably prosecute her.


I know I am being redundant but 30 years ago the Bill Clinton/Loretta Lynch meeting would be been totally secret-it is only because of the Internet we are aware.


----------



## Nelley

Selfie Boy is just busting his hump on behalf of all Canadians http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...of-the-aga-khan-on-his-private-bahamas-island


----------



## bass player

Nelley said:


> I know I am being redundant but 30 years ago the Bill Clinton/Loretta Lynch meeting would be been totally secret-it is only because of the Internet we are aware.


And the internet let people know about Hillary's collapse at the 911 ceremony. There is no way her people would have made that public if they could have gotten away with it.


----------



## sags

SMK said:


> I also observed racism was absent from his list, and the very real "evil" category was placed last because many Liberals and ultra-Liberals don't believe it exists.
> 
> Some have another category for pure evil, just "crazy". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XRO4UGSiQo


You missed the "who knows" at the end of the sentence.

Do you know the reasons for the attack ? Did you talk to the victim or the perpetrators ?

Let the police and prosecutors do their job before jumping to conspiracy theories.


----------



## sags

Keep denying the Russian involvement, even though the Republicans who demanded concrete information are now supporting the intelligence report. One security adviser just quit his team and there are reports of dissension in his appointments about the path that Trump is taking. His surrogates are now backing away from him.

Trump isn't President yet and he has already put himself out on a limb and is sawing through it.

Many Republicans are now questioning why he refuses to accept the obvious, and are bewildered and dismayed at his constant tweeting about his emotions and feelings and his strong support of Putin.

If there is something going on between Trump and Putin, he has motivated the intelligence community to find and reveal it.

I think the likely future for Trump is impeachment with bi-partisan support.


----------



## bass player

sags...why won't the DNC let any of the intelligence committees look at their servers so that they can do their own analysis? If national security is truly at risk as claimed, then shouldn't they be involved rather than accepting 3rd party claims from a company that's only been in business 2-3 years? In fact, shouldn't the intelligence agencies have DEMANDED that the servers be turned over?


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> You missed the "who knows" at the end of the sentence.
> 
> Do you know the reasons for the attack ? Did you talk to the victim or the perpetrators ?
> 
> Let the police and prosecutors do their job before jumping to conspiracy theories.



When a white cop is forced to shoot a black man with a gun, we are immediately told it's due to racism.

When 4 black people torture a white man while yelling "f*ck white people", then it's just a poor upbringing or kids being kids.

You truly are delusional.


----------



## SMK

sags said:


> You missed the "who knows" at the end of the sentence.
> 
> Do you know the reasons for the attack ? Did you talk to the victim or the perpetrators ?


I missed nothing, but you did. Terror attacks such as the Boston bombings are not the big mystery you sound them out to be.

Cry and cast the perpetrators as poor victims all you want.


----------



## sags

The US security report says they watched the hacking taking place in real time.

To do so, they must have had access to the servers. Therefore your information is false.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> When a white cop is forced to shoot a black man with a gun, we are immediately told it's due to racism.
> 
> When 4 black people torture a white man while yelling "f*ck white people", then it's just a poor upbringing or kids being kids.
> 
> You truly are delusional.


Why the need to jump to conclusions ? Wait until the investigation is complete and the "why" of the incident is answered.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Why the need to jump to conclusions ? Wait until the investigation is complete and the "why" of the incident is answered.


Lol.


----------



## sags

Nelley said:


> If the climate scammers had started their trip earlier (say 40 years ago) there would have been very little talk of deniers because the truth would die on the vine-without the internet there is no way possible to get the truth out globally on any subject. A few scientists would speak the truth but very few people would be aware of this.


The largest piece of ice is about to break off the Antarctica coastline. It is the size of the State of Delaware and will alter the shape of the continent.

It is the largest piece to ever break off from the ice shelf, and the ice remaining will be the lowest amount in recorded history.

Scientists say it is undeniably climate related. 

But go ahead, close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> Keep denying the Russian involvement, even though the Republicans who demanded concrete information are now supporting the intelligence report. One security adviser just quit his team and there are reports of dissension in his appointments about the path that Trump is taking. His surrogates are now backing away from him.
> 
> Trump isn't President yet and he has already put himself out on a limb and is sawing through it.
> 
> Many Republicans are now questioning why he refuses to accept the obvious, and are bewildered and dismayed at his constant tweeting about his emotions and feelings and his strong support of Putin.
> 
> If there is something going on between Trump and Putin, he has motivated the intelligence community to find and reveal it.
> 
> I think the likely future for Trump is impeachment with bi-partisan support.


You whacko Conspiracy Theorists are on to something here-I still say Elvis is involved somehow.


----------



## SMK

sags said:


> Why the need to jump to conclusions ? Wait until the investigation is complete and the "why" of the incident is answered.


You haven't seen-heard enough evidence yet? And people wonder why we've ended up with Trump.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> Why the need to jump to conclusions ? Wait until the investigation is complete and the "why" of the incident is answered.


I blame Trump-if the guy had not run for POTUS none of this would have happened-these poor kids would still be at choir practice.


----------



## sags

I didn't think Putin was this short.......but it must be true because there are pictures on the internet.

View attachment 13505


View attachment 13513


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> The largest piece of ice is about to break off the Antarctica coastline. It is the size of the State of Delaware and will alter the shape of the continent.
> 
> It is the largest piece to ever break off from the ice shelf, and the ice remaining will be the lowest amount in recorded history.
> 
> Scientists say it is undeniably climate related.
> 
> But go ahead, close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening.


According to the MSM, Antarctic ice extent set a recorded record 2 years ago (Sept 2014)https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...-glaciers-melts-climate-change-global-warming


----------



## sags

The perpetrators have been charged with hate crimes. Maybe racism is an element of the criminal charges against them.

I don't know and neither do you. Why don't you give the investigators a call and tell them you need to know right now.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> The largest piece of ice is about to break off the Antarctica coastline. It is the size of the State of Delaware and will alter the shape of the continent.
> 
> It is the largest piece to ever break off from the ice shelf, and the ice remaining will be the lowest amount in recorded history.
> 
> Scientists say it is undeniably climate related.
> 
> But go ahead, close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening.


I know it happened, so there is no pretending. However, it's a perfectly normal event that happened before SUV's and will happen again, but don't let the facts get in the way. 

By the way....Antarctic ice is still on the increase. did the alarmist story you read mention that fact?


----------



## new dog

We could actually be going into a major warming cycle on the climates schedule whether man was here or not we just don't know.

Notice how CNN and everyone is climbing on to the hate Russia band wagon. The hacking could be true and so is the hacking by everyone else but only Russia is singled out for a reason. War with Russia whether real or a new cold war is a big money maker and that is why everyone is after Russia right now and Trump isn't playing along.


----------



## bass player

I'm trying to figure out why the Russians would risk an unknown like Trump when they could have had an easily bought Hillary (Obama the 3rd) who would bluster but let him do anything he wants just like he has been doing for the last 8 years. If you were a dictator, who would you want as president?


----------



## new dog

Hillary is extremely dangerous to the entire earth and dangerous to Putin and Russia. She is all in on globalism and I do not think Putin wants that let alone having weapons massively moved to its borders. She is also a person that no one I believe wants to deal with on a personal level as well.


----------



## andrewf

^ Scary Hillary. Have you been reading Pravda, I mean RT?


----------



## new dog

You do not have to read anything to know how scary Hillary is.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> ^ Scary Hillary. Have you been reading Pravda, I mean RT?


She has a very bad rep as a psychologically sick individual-that doesn't mean that her rep is 100% accurate but often where there is smoke there is fire.


----------



## bass player

More fake news from the New York Times:

"WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump’s transition staff has issued a blanket edict requiring politically appointed ambassadors to leave their overseas posts by Inauguration Day, according to several American diplomats familiar with the plan, *breaking with decades of precedent *by declining to provide even the briefest of grace periods."

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/us/politics/trump-ambassadors.html

What they chose to ignore is the fact that Obama did exactly the same thing in 2008.

"The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said.

The clean slate will open up prime opportunities for the president-elect to reward political supporters with posts in London, Paris, Tokyo and the like. The notice to diplomatic posts was issued this week."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/obama-gives-political-ambassad.html


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> More fake news from the New York Times:
> 
> "WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump’s transition staff has issued a blanket edict requiring politically appointed ambassadors to leave their overseas posts by Inauguration Day, according to several American diplomats familiar with the plan, *breaking with decades of precedent *by declining to provide even the briefest of grace periods."
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/us/politics/trump-ambassadors.html
> 
> What they chose to ignore is the fact that Obama did exactly the same thing in 2008.




another lie from the addled member of the nursing-home quartet in cmf forum.

the NY Times published a pristine set of facts. The only fake element is coming from bass-the-troll. 

it's an ironclad rule that politically-appointed diplomats must resign when the White House regime changes. As the NY Times correctly points out, previous presidents have always allowed a grace period. Including president obama.

only a donald trump would swagger like the manic bully he is & rip out important ambassadors before he is even inaugurated.

the sad fact is that it's far better for the US of A to grant the appropriate grace period. All political ambassadors to the top-desired posts - london, paris, canada - have of course made numerous friends in their host countries, no matter whether the president who appointed them was democrat or republican.

in this vein, all such political ambassadors require the grace period of time in order to bid good-bye to their assorted friends & hosts. In a proper transition of power, it's each ambassador's duty to serve washington first & foremost, to politically clean his slate, to tie down whatever files he can, to restore his temporary foreign house to best working condition for occupancy by washington's next envoy.

the sad fact that that trump is once again betraying his colossal ignorance. What he's doing is damaging to US foreign policy.

.


----------



## bass player

humble lacks comprehension:

"The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said."

Read it slow if you don't understand it the first time...


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> humble lacks comprehension:
> 
> "The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said."



please, what are your sources for the above quote?

please don't try your usual trick of telling us to look up the missing information ourselves .:biggrin:

in point of fact, political diplomatic appointees are the scourge of any foreign service. When the plum appointments go to special friends of a US president, this gravy payola only serves to discourage & demoralize the ranks of professional career diplomats serving in foggy bottom.

canada has never had as many political dipso postings as the US, whose appointments border on the scandalous


.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> please, what are your sources for the above quote?
> 
> please don't try your usual trick of telling us to look up the missing information ourselves .:biggrin:


The link is in the post that I made. The fact that you never even bothered to read it before commenting explains a lot...


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> The link is in the post that I made. The fact that you never even bothered to read it before commenting explains a lot...



of course i read the NY Times link. You are 100% misrepresenting what it said. You have twisted everything backwards.

*the NY Times article that you linked explicitly stated that exceptions have always been made for political ambassadors on a case-by-case basis. * 

bass what part of the above are you not getting?

the NY Times stated that ambassadors with children still in school are an example of diplomats who would be permitted to extend their foreign postings by weeks & months. But other unspoken examples would be ambassadors with active open political files that would need to be clarified with their host countries.

canada has many such open issues, complex issues that date back to the regime of stephen harper. The re-arming of the north is only one example out of many. This has nothing to do with whether a liberal or a conservative is in power in ottawa, nor anything to do with whether a democrat or a republication sits in the white house.

bass you have deiberately scrambled your dignified & highly accurate New York Times source backwards in order to produce yet one more of your trademark stupid lies; & then you have posted your lie in the forum. In the brief period you've been a member here, you have done this hundreds & hundreds of times.

the founders of the forum would have banned you & your ilk months ago.

.


----------



## bass player

Go back and read the entire comment and look for the SECOND LINK...hint, it's at the bottom and is not hidden. Then click on that link.

My goodness!!


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> She has a very bad rep as a psychologically sick individual-that doesn't mean that her rep is 100% accurate but often where there is smoke there is fire.


The smoke and fire statement is so overused that it has become a tired cliche. 

The rumour of Nelley's trysts with barnyard creatures may not be 100% accurate but where there is smoke there is fire.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> The smoke and fire statement is so overused that it has become a tired cliche.
> 
> The rumour of Nelley's trysts with barnyard creatures may not be 100% accurate but where there is smoke there is fire.


Intellectually speaking, at least your posts are consistent.


----------



## new dog

What they chose to ignore is the fact that Obama did exactly the same thing in 2008.

"The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said.

The clean slate will open up prime opportunities for the president-elect to reward political supporters with posts in London, Paris, Tokyo and the like. The notice to diplomatic posts was issued this week."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/obama-gives-political-ambassad.html[/QUOTE]



It does say in the first sentence that Obama told them to depart on Jan 20 unless I am missing something.

Sorry but the post above is from bass except the sentence above.


----------



## olivaw

humble_pie said:


> the founders of the forum would have banned you & your ilk months ago.


This statement could be directed at a few of our newer members. The new owners are
permissive but I wonder how long it can last. Sometimes moderators recognize that a site has been overrun by bigots and conspiracy theorists. They have little choice but to respond with a hard crackdown which involves banning and extensive post deletion.

Yahoo tried to develop software to moderate its many forums but it didn't work. In the end, they shut most of them down.


----------



## new dog

I am thinking this is fake news from info wars about Obama and DHS illegally federalizing the election system. The title says they will use this to overturn the election. I don't think this is true but I suppose you never know.

http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-obamadhs-preparing-to-overturn-trump-election/


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> This statement could be directed at a few of our newer members. The new owners are
> permissive but I wonder how long it can last. Sometimes moderators recognize that a site has been overrun by bigots and conspiracy theorists. They have little choice but to respond with a hard crackdown which involves banning and extensive post deletion.
> 
> Yahoo tried to develop software to moderate its many forums but it didn't work. In the end, they shut most of them down.


OTOH the two of you tend to obsess on feces and barnyard animals a lot-with a less permissive site you two would have been kicked out long ago.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> bass you have deiberately scrambled your dignified & highly accurate New York Times source backwards in order to produce yet one more of your trademark stupid lies; & then you have posted your lie in the forum. In the brief period you've been a member here, you have done this hundreds & hundreds of times.


No I didn't. I clearly provide 2 different links to PROVE my point that the New York Times was spreading fake news. This was pointed out twice by me after it was made clear to everyone that you did not read the second link before responding with an insult.

Shame on you for being so petty and immature. Grow up and act like an adult.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Go back and read the entire comment and look for the SECOND LINK...hint, it's at the bottom and is not hidden. Then click on that link.
> 
> My goodness!!




no, you added that 2nd link later. Notice your "edited" add-on, which you cannot remove.

me i had replied to your post exactliy as you first posted it, with only the New York Times article & your lie about the same.

the sum & essence of your message has not changed. It was & remains a typical purpose-twisted bass-ackwards lie.

we have fairly new legislation in canada against deliberately spewing lies in the internet, are you aware of that fact?


.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> This was pointed out twice by me after it was made clear to everyone that you did not read the second link before responding with an insult.



no one insulted you. It is yourself who is the grotesque insulter on here. Worse, you are a libeller, a defamer, a spreader of evil.

this is a financial forum. Poor bass, it's pitifully clear that you have nothing to contribute in finance. How on earth did you happen to stumble your way on here? :biggrin:

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> no, you added that 2nd link later. Notice your "edited" add-on, which you cannot remove.


There is no edit. You are delusional. Or lying. Or both!! Perhaps you should be charged under the "spewing lies in the internet"??


----------



## humble_pie

Nelley said:


> OTOH the two of you tend to obsess on feces and barnyard animals a lot-with a less permissive site you two would have been kicked out long ago.




nelley you've got it 100% backwards.

we are the longtime members on here, with recognized expertise in finance, many hundreds of thank-you notes from parties we have helped across the years, many tens of thousands of traffic viewers & plenty of friends. 

you are a rank newcomer who quickly turned out to be nothing more than a screwball allzie with a filthy mouth, one who has nothing left to do in life except post up anonymous insults & ruminate obscenely about diapers in the internet.

bref, nelley, you & bass player are trolls. The founders of this forum would have banned you both months ago.

.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> There is no edit. You are delusional. Or lying. Or both!! Perhaps you should be charged under the "spewing lies in the internet"??



hilarious

you must have edited post No. 290 - the one which i quoted exactly as it first appeared - so fast that no "Edited" note appeared. There is always a brief hiatus of time during which one can edit without a record of such editing appearing.

but the fact remains that you first posted with *only* the New York Times link & nothing more. Plus you wrote an entire post in which you falsely alleged that the NY Times had published fake news. That was your original message, which i copied, to which i replied.

no, the New York Times did not publish fake news. It published a pristine, well-sourced, well-researched article about how no previous US president of either party had ever axed his diplomatic force serving abroad on inauguration day. How there had always been delays.

you are the one twisting this proper piece of journalism into another one of your phoney accusations. Shame on you.

.


----------



## bass player

Commence countdown to full blown humble meltdown.....3, 2, 1


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Commence countdown to full blown humble meltdown.....3, 2, 1



no, not a meltdown at all

me i'm just a poor crumb from the bottom of the scullery who says you & fellow mouldering left-overs should be swept up with a new 2017 broom & tossed into the kitchen dustbin .each: each: each:

.


----------



## new dog

The New York Times article is not pristine because the Washington Post article does say the same thing happened when Obama took over in 08. Again is there something I am missing here and not picking up on it.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

<sigh> Dare I suggest the taunting, insulting and tit-for-tat be given a rest. 

I'd like to assume we all have better things to spend our time on when we are typing and reading.
Certainly Humble who has been here for many years has demonstrated that. We're counting on newer members to be here for the right reasons as well. Given the laxity of admin oversight nowadays, let's learn from The Lord of the Flies, not relive it.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> Commence countdown to full blown humble meltdown.....3, 2, 1


Bass: Here is the thing-Humble wants you and she knows she can't have you and it is driving her crazy.


----------



## humble_pie

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> <sigh> Dare I suggest the taunting, insulting and tit-for-tat be given a rest.
> 
> I'd like to assume we all have better things to spend our time on when we are typing and reading.
> Certainly Humble who has been here for many years has demonstrated that. We're counting on newer members to be here for the right reasons as well. Given the laxity of admin oversight nowadays, let's learn from The Lord of the Flies, not relive it.




onlyMO i absolutely do not start the taunts or the insults! no one has encouraged cmffers more than i have. 

but the forum has been invaded - pretty near hijacked by now - by trolls.

i don't happen to recall if you were an active member on here before the 2014 olympic games in Sochi, but if you were, you would have noticed that those games were the very last moment when cmf forum ever acted together as a healthy, happy, sharing community.

prior to that watershed moment in march 2014, there were even cmffers who used to post on here that they were members of "a family."

immediately after Sochi came crimea & the gaza war. Soon, the neocon krypto nazi posts surfaced. More trolls arrived. 

there was no end to the list of troll hatreds. Trolls hated: canada, ottawa, stephen harper, justin trudeau, canadian foreign policy, canadian military policy, arabs, moslems, refugees, canadian laws, canadian gays, canadian income taxes, canadian aboriginal persons, canadians wearing turban headgear, more arabs, more moslems, more refugees, the US of A, barack obama, russia, vladimir putin, more arabs, more moslems, more refugees, turkey, syria, lebanon, saudi arabia, iran, iraq, dubai, the UAE, qatar & of course more arabs, more moslems & more refugees.

eventually trolls on here began posting that canadian soldiers are cowards. That was the point where i began to resist. Trolls on that extreme scale are traitors to this country imho.

flash forward & there are now more trolls than ever before. Trolls such as the ones in this thread who post nothing but obscene lies & fierce insults night & day. Trolls who openly brag that they have serious drinking problems. Furthermore i cannot recall a single troll in this thread who ever posted an item of value on a financial topic. Alas their only currency is verbal abuse.

the first valuable financial expert to leave because of the trolls was moneyGal. She left, she said publicly, because of the "shout-y" people. We all know who she meant. The loudest shouter of all is still a member of the forum, although the moderators have managed to shut down the worst of his rageaholic attacks.


_onlyMO, what are you trying to claim?_ another group of long-time valuable cmf members with financial expertise are preparing to depart right now, because of the trolls. Are you saying that we should all give up, leave this place entirely to the trolls, who will be able to happily plaster their infowars graffiti til the cows come home? it would certainly surprise me that you might be one who would ask for mob rule by a gang of thugs, goons & addled allzie patients, though.

however, it is possible that this might be the cmf forum future. The finance threads are weak these past few months. Folks are drained to their bones by the horrifying likes of the nelleys, the basses, the newdogcoms, the rusties & other ruffians. Perhaps the remaing good folks who actually do care about other people, who respect other people, should pack up now & leave.


.


----------



## Nelley

humble_pie said:


> onlyMO i absolutely do not start the taunts or the insults! no one has encouraged cmffers more than i have.
> 
> but the forum has been invaded - pretty near hijacked by now - by trolls.
> 
> i don't happen to recall if you were an active member on here before the 2014 olympic games in Sochi, but if you were, you would have noticed that those games were the very last moment when cmf forum ever acted together as a healthy, happy, sharing community.
> 
> prior to that watershed moment in march 2014, there were even cmffers who used to post on here that they were members of "a family."
> 
> immediately after Sochi came crimea & the gaza war. Soon, the neocon krypto nazi posts surfaced. More trolls arrived.
> 
> there was no end to the list of troll hatreds. Trolls hated: canada, ottawa, stephen harper, justin trudeau, canadian foreign policy, canadian military policy, arabs, moslems, refugees, canadian laws, canadian gays, canadian income taxes, canadian aboriginal persons, canadians wearing turban headgear, more arabs, more moslems, more refugees, the US of A, barack obama, russia, vladimir putin, more arabs, more moslems, more refugees, turkey, syria, lebanon, saudi arabia, iran, iraq, dubai, the UAE, qatar & of course more arabs, more moslems & more refugees.
> 
> eventually trolls on here began posting that canadian soldiers are cowards. That was the point where i began to resist. Trolls on that extreme scale are traitors to this country imho.
> 
> flash forward & there are now more trolls than ever before. Trolls such as the ones in this thread who post nothing but obscene lies & fierce insults night & day. Trolls who openly brag that they have serious drinking problems. Furthermore i cannot recall a single troll in this thread who ever posted an item of value on a financial topic. Alas their only currency is verbal abuse.
> 
> the first valuable financial expert to leave because of the trolls was moneyGal. She left, she said publicly, because of the "shout-y" people. We all know who she meant. The loudest shouter of all is still a member of the forum, although the moderators have managed to shut down the worst of his rageaholic attacks.
> 
> 
> _onlyMO, what are you trying to claim?_ another group of long-time valuable cmf members with financial expertise are preparing to depart right now, because of the trolls. Are you saying that we should all give up, leave this place entirely to the trolls, who will be able to happily plaster their infowars graffiti til the cows come home? it would certainly surprise me that you might be one who would ask for mob rule by a gang of thugs, goons & addled allzie patients, though.
> 
> however, it is possible that this might be the cmf forum future. The finance threads are weak these past few months. Folks are drained to their bones by the horrifying likes of the nelleys, the basses, the newdogcoms, the rusties & other ruffians. Perhaps the remaing good folks who actually do care about other people, who respect other people, should pack up now & leave.
> 
> 
> .


Sadly, the only thing that is constant is change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

humble_pie said:


> ... _onlyMO, what are you trying to claim?_


Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that your many years on CMF have demonstrated that you are here to contribute. 
What I hope is that newer members are here for the same reason. Most have contributed positively at times but as you point out in your post, the trolling and personal insults have grown. Forum respect and civility seem to be fading.
I try to steer clear of threads that are irrelevant or unraveling but it can be difficult - case in point, here I am in a thread over 300 posts long that I find of no value or interest. :blue:


----------



## Pluto

sags said:


> The largest piece of ice is about to break off the Antarctica coastline. It is the size of the State of Delaware and will alter the shape of the continent.
> 
> It is the largest piece to ever break off from the ice shelf, and the ice remaining will be the lowest amount in recorded history.
> 
> Scientists say it is undeniably climate related.
> 
> But go ahead, close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening.


It's dam cold down there and It is reasonable to think that ice is building up and normal that some will break off. 
but I'm wondering what you mean by your word "ever". Can you give a date for "ever"? How does one know how much ice broke off prior to it being monitored? Such problematic wording contributes to a fake understading of the situation. 

In the meantime attached is a history of Greenland which shows it being much much warmer within the past 10000 years. (I think if one clicks on the attachment it should be much bigger. ) I'd be surprised if such charts make it to mainstream media as it doesn't suppor their doomsday apocalyptic warming theme.


----------



## bass player

sags said: "The largest piece of ice is about to break off the Antarctica coastline. It is the size of the State of Delaware and will alter the shape of the continent."

How can a piece of floating ice "alter the shape of the continent"? It's ice off the coastline, and is not a part of the land mass.

That's nothing but fake news intended to mislead. But, I guess I'm a troll for pointing out a deliberate lie intended to obscure a well-known fact... 

Perhaps those who spread lies like this need to be banned, instead of those who refute those lies with truth??


----------



## Pluto

humble_pie said:


> however, it is possible that this might be the cmf forum future. The finance threads are weak these past few months. Folks are drained to their bones by the horrifying likes of the nelleys, the basses, the newdogcoms, the rusties & other ruffians. Perhaps the remaing good folks who actually do care about other people, who respect other people, should pack up now & leave.
> .


Interest in stocks and finance will return. The market is boring right now, and something will eventually happen to draw attention back to it. I suspect the thing that will happen is a substantial bear market which will revive interest in stocks, at least.....not to mention a potential real estate bust. In the meantime such threads as fake news can be an interestinng diversion for some. I'm not big on controling or micromanaging what people should be interested in.


----------



## Nelley

Pluto said:


> Interest in stocks and finance will return. The market is boring right now, and something will eventually happen to draw attention back to it. I suspect the thing that will happen is a substantial bear market which will revive interest in stocks, at least.....not to mention a potential real estate bust. In the meantime such threads as fake news can be an interestinng diversion for some. I'm not big on controling or micromanaging what people should be interested in.


The whole topic discussed makes no sense (lurkers horrified or running for the hills offended)-if someone doesn't want to read a thread titled Fake News you can assume they won't read it-as far as I know nobody is burying political comments in threads such as Should I buy ENF.TO or How Do You Like My New Condo.


----------



## Nelley

Poll Numbers: Americans believing Wikileaks 83% believing intelligence officials 17%. Very impressive progress shown here.


----------



## bass player

More fake news from the left....the omission of the attacker's race and the reference to Trump is a deliberate and disgusting attempt to make people think that white Trump supporters were responsible. This is how CBS Radio News reported the vicious torturing of a white man at the hands of 4 black people:

"The viral video of a beating and knife attack in Chicago suggests the assault had racial overtones. CBS’s Dean Reynolds tells us the victim is described as a mentally challenged teenager.

In the video, he is choked and repeatedly called the n-word. His clothes are slashed and he is terrorized with a knife. His alleged captors repeatedly reference Donald Trump. Police are holding four people in connection with the attack."

Link to audio. Go to 1:28:

http://www.kgoradio.com/2017/01/05/armstrong-getty-brick-and-mortar-sales-are-down-bigly/

Shouldn't someone be fired?


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> More fake news from the left....the omission of the attacker's race and the reference to Trump is a deliberate and disgusting attempt to make people think that white Trump supporters were responsible. This is how CBS Radio News reported the vicious torturing of a white man at the hands of 4 black people:
> 
> "The viral video of a beating and knife attack in Chicago suggests the assault had racial overtones. CBS’s Dean Reynolds tells us the victim is described as a mentally challenged teenager.
> 
> In the video, he is choked and repeatedly called the n-word. His clothes are slashed and he is terrorized with a knife. His alleged captors repeatedly reference Donald Trump. Police are holding four people in connection with the attack."
> 
> Link to audio. Go to 1:28:
> 
> http://www.kgoradio.com/2017/01/05/armstrong-getty-brick-and-mortar-sales-are-down-bigly/
> 
> Shouldn't someone be fired?


Large chunks of the MSM still operate like it is 1977, not 2017-they will lie about stuff even when proof of their lying has gone viral-the same thing happened with Crooked Hillary's freeze up/collapse on 9/11-parts of the MSM tried to lie and call it a faint even after the video went viral. With all these lies their credibility drops every day.


----------



## olivaw

humble_pie said:


> however, it is possible that this might be the cmf forum future. The finance threads are weak these past few months. Folks are drained to their bones by the horrifying likes of the nelleys, the basses, the newdogcoms, the rusties & other ruffians. Perhaps the remaing good folks who actually do care about other people, who respect other people, should pack up now & leave.


Between the fake news and the Muslim bashing, the descent into chaos continues. We mortals can't stop it. The moderators have to step in. They may go overboard. 

In the meantime, there is no reason to leave the forum. IMO, the financial topics will pick up when market volatility returns. Perhaps rising interest rates will create the necessary volatility. 

As an aside, do you remember when they tried volunteer moderation on this forum? It was a complete failure.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Large chunks of the MSM still operate like it is 1977, not 2017-they will lie about stuff even when proof of their lying has gone vira.


Nonsense. The media accurately reported the race of the victim and the attackers.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Nonsense. The media accurately reported the race of the victim and the attackers.


Not all of them. Read this again and try to grasp why most reasonable people would consider it fake news:

"The viral video of a beating and knife attack in Chicago suggests the assault had racial overtones. CBS’s Dean Reynolds tells us the victim is described as a mentally challenged teenager.

In the video, he is choked and repeatedly called the n-word. His clothes are slashed and he is terrorized with a knife. His alleged captors repeatedly reference Donald Trump. Police are holding four people in connection with the attack."


----------



## new dog

I am against insulting people, name calling and foul language on the forum and have said it repeatedly and have defended others who have been attacked. This thread in no way promotes these sorts of actions and I haven't taken part in any of it.

This thread is meant to raise attention against censorship which is even being promoted here on this thread by some people. It is also meant to expose the alternative and the main stream media for their false stories or propaganda. A few posts back I linked a story from Info Wars which I thought was fake news and said so on the post so people are aware of it. I also like some of the reports that info wars puts out exposing the mainstream media and others.

Fake news and censorship that is being promoted today is very dangerous to our finances and portfolios. If everything is censored then you will only have access to information that may be propaganda from the government, companies and promoters. Governments could push climate change through the censored media that we buy into and costs us all a great deal of money. They could push bad laws, trade deals and taxes that could hurt everyones finances and portfolios and we may not be aware of it because of the propaganda and promotions.

I would like everyone here to post and say what they want in a civil matter whether I agree with you or not. Read my posts against james4beach and you would think we don't like each other but really we respect each others opinion and he is only one of two on my friends list.


----------



## bass player

Well stated, new dog.

People on both side have to understand that both sides of the media will report the facts, but there are also those who stretch the truth, lie by omission, or blatantly ignore certain news items....it depends on the source. Also, the other side is not wrong 100% of the time, and will even be more accurate on occasion. Not only look at what is reported, but pay attention to what isn't reported and to what seems to be missing. Imagine that the story being reported is about a politician or a science related topic on the other side of the issue and ask yourself honestly if you would be happy with how they covered it.

It gets heated here. I apologize for getting too caught up in the debate. Let's all try to play nicer...


----------



## new dog

Thanks bass and I don't mind you getting caught up in the debate, as long as it is nice as you said. You actually do make some good points and I appreciate that input.


----------



## Parkuser

Nelley said:


> Sadly, the only thing that is constant is change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3KEhWTnWvE


humble_pie, this rebuttal made me laugh. As the wiki says: "Those Were the Days" originated as a Russian romance song "Dorogoi dlinnoyu" (By the long road), made famous by a Russian singer Alexander Vertinski. On the Mary Hopkin's 1968 recording quoted only Gene Raskin was credited as the writer of the lyrics and the composer. I do remember this fake credit was a big story in 1968, mostly because Mary Hopkin's recording made it to #1 in the UK.

Nelley's rebuttal in the Fake News thread would be even more sincere if it went like: Sadly, as Pythagoras said: the only thing that is constant is change ....
Fake news, fake reality, song with a stolen credit.


----------



## new dog

Parkuser that was good and I had to look it up.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> I am against insulting people, name calling and foul language on the forum and have said it repeatedly


Good natured teasing is OK. In fact it can be positive. My friendly debates in the real world contain plenty of good natured jabs that serve to keep things light. Intent matters though. If the intent is to lighten the mood then it is constructive. If it is to disrupt the conversation then it is not. 




new dog said:


> This thread is meant to raise attention against censorship which is even being promoted here on this thread by some people. It is also meant to expose the alternative and the main stream media for their false stories or propaganda. A few posts back I linked a story from Info Wars which I thought was fake news and said so on the post so people are aware of it. I also like some of the reports that info wars puts out exposing the mainstream media and others.
> 
> Fake news and censorship that is being promoted today is very dangerous to our finances and portfolios. If everything is censored then you will only have access to information that may be propaganda from the government, companies and promoters. Governments could push climate change through the censored media that we buy into and costs us all a great deal of money. They could push bad laws, trade deals and taxes that could hurt everyones finances and portfolios and we may not be aware of it because of the propaganda and promotions.


I am not sure that anybody has called for censorship. There has been discussion about forum moderation but that is entirely different from government censorship. We have no right to absolute free speech on a privately owned forum. 

My own posts are a warning based upon what I have seen on other forums. If we can't maintain civility then the moderators may need to step in. The problem is that moderators don't have the time to read every post by every member. Often, they engage in a temporary heavy handed crackdown. In some cases they simply shut down a forum that has been invaded by racists, trolls or bullies. 



new dog said:


> I would like everyone here to post and say what they want in a civil matter whether I agree with you or not.


Agreed. 

On the topic. I think you, nelley, bass and pluto are mistaken. Your argument appears to be that professional media outlets fall short of the ideal of objectivity and accuracy. You assign a sort of ethical equivalence to sites that have no commitment to objectivity and accuracy. 

It's like giving equal weight to the medical opinion of a doctor and a random stranger in a bar. It's reasonable to seek a second opinion, but the second opinion needs to be trustworthy.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Good natured teasing is OK. In fact it can be positive. My friendly debates in the real world contain plenty of good natured jabs that serve to keep things light. Intent matters though. If the intent is to lighten the mood then it is constructive. If it is to disrupt the conversation then it is not.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure that anybody has called for censorship. There has been discussion about forum moderation but that is entirely different from government censorship. We have no right to absolute free speech on a privately owned forum.
> 
> My own posts are a warning based upon what I have seen on other forums. If we can't maintain civility then the moderators may need to step in. The problem is that moderators don't have the time to read every post by every member. Often, they engage in a temporary heavy handed crackdown. In some cases they simply shut down a forum that has been invaded by racists, trolls or bullies.
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> On the topic. I think you, nelley, bass and pluto are mistaken. Your argument appears to be that professional media outlets fall short of the ideal of objectivity and accuracy. You assign a sort of ethical equivalence to sites that have no commitment to objectivity and accuracy.
> 
> It's like giving equal weight to the medical opinion of a doctor and a random stranger in a bar. It's reasonable to seek a second opinion, but the second opinion needs to be trustworthy.


Look-what is the purpose of simply repeating MSM info on a discussion board? We all know the MSM spin/story on every topic.


----------



## new dog

Here is an example of how CBS radio reported the kidnapping incident and made it sound like the perpetrators were white and the victim was black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QfuXM9usnM

Anyway I agree the mainstream is more professional and have the budget to better serve us the news. Alt media obviously can't serve us like the mainstream can. However the mainstream has to be held in check from their opinions and propaganda they can send out. My post above explains the importance of free speech and how it can serve us.

On the lighter stuff I agree with you it isn't that bad. Nelley calls you a sheep and you call nelley something else and that is not a serious thing I don't think. I don't think you have ever engaged in the over the top stuff.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> On the topic. I think you, nelley, bass and pluto are mistaken. Your argument appears to be that professional media outlets fall short of the ideal of objectivity and accuracy. You assign a sort of ethical equivalence to sites that have no commitment to objectivity and accuracy.


You have been given several very clear examples on how the "professional" media has not been accurate or objective, but you have dismissed every single one of them.



olivaw said:


> It's like giving equal weight to the medical opinion of a doctor and a random stranger in a bar. It's reasonable to seek a second opinion, but the second opinion needs to be trustworthy.


Incorrect. When there is clear video or audio evidence of inaccuracy or lies by omission, then it's not the same as comparing a medical opinion from a doctor to that of a random stranger in a bar. That's not a valid comparison. You don't have to be a professional journalist to report a fact or event accurately, but you do need to be a doctor to diagnose a medical issue.

Please enlighten us...are there ANY non-left media sources that you would consider accurate...or at least as accurate as those on the left? Or, have you simply dismissed every single non-left source as wrong?


----------



## new dog

Many it seems, no matter the glaring evidence, will not accept anything unless it comes from a left leaning media source.

The scary thing however is the ability of left media sources to sell anything to those who follow them. One day they say war is wrong and the next day they say it is right and people will follow it. If tomorrow they decide Russia is fine then it is fine even if nothing has changed. Right now they are focused on Russia so that the war machine can stay healthy by mentioning the hacking even though everyone is doing it including the US.

What about Obama approving a huge uranium shipment to Iran from Russia. Why does this seem fine? I suppose as long as Obama does it all is good.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12249/obamas-final-gift-uranium-headed-iran-hank-berrien


----------



## bass player

new dog:

Don't forget the $10 billion in gold and cash he has also given Iran...although, some people claim that the amount is much more than that. And, of course, last week he threw Israel under the bus.

Meryl Streep's predictable "I'm outraged" speech at the Golden Globes trashing Trump was more newsworthy than the US approving the sale of 130 tons of uranium to Iran. Of course, this is very same Meryl Streep who stood and applauded when rapist/pedophile Roman Polanski received an award.

I'm baffled...at what point do people start opening their eyes?


----------



## new dog

If Trump did these things CNN would be setting up panels and the condemnation would be non stop. He would also be accused of being an agent of Russia, a Putin lover and on and on.


----------



## bass player

What's next for Obama? He still has 11 days left to cause as much havoc as possible. It frightens me to speculate on how much more damage can he do. 

And, how long will the professional journalists of the mainstream media that some people love so much sit silently while Obama does everything in his power to destroy the world?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> You have been given several very clear examples on how the "professional" media has not been accurate or objective, but you have dismissed every single one of them.
> 
> Incorrect. When there is clear video or audio evidence of inaccuracy or lies by omission, then it's not the same as comparing a medical opinion from a doctor to that of a random stranger in a bar. That's not a valid comparison. You don't have to be a professional journalist to report a fact or event accurately, but you do need to be a doctor to diagnose a medical issue.
> 
> Please enlighten us...are there ANY non-left media sources that you would consider accurate...or at least as accurate as those on the left? Or, have you simply dismissed every single non-left source as wrong?


You've missed the point. It has nothing to do with left or right. 

Professional media includes both left leaning and right leaning organizations. 

Alt-right sources like ZH and infowars do not strive for accuracy and objectivity. There are probably alt-left sources that are just as untrustworthy but nobody on this forum quotes them.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> What's next for Obama? He still has 11 days left to cause as much havoc as possible. It frightens me to speculate on how much more damage can he do.
> 
> And, how long will the professional journalists of the mainstream media that some people love so much sit silently while Obama does everything in his power to destroy the world?


Obama was a great president. This is not the thread to discuss that so I'll leave you and new dog to continue the speculative hand wringing.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

bass player said:


> What's next for Obama? He still has 11 days left to cause as much havoc as possible... *how long will the professional journalists... sit silently* while Obama does everything in his power to destroy the world?


Gee, is the correct answer 11 days?


----------



## bass player

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Gee, is the correct answer 11 days?


Does it really matter??


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

bass player said:


> Does it really matter??


Does what matter - the question you asked - or its answer?


----------



## bass player

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Does what matter - the question you asked - or its answer?


My apologies...I misinterpreted your reply as a shot at my math skills


----------



## new dog

You did a good job of trying to deflect Olivaw. I was wondering if anyone could explain how the media isn't grilling and going after Obama for letting Russia ship tons of weapons grade uranium to Iran. Again Trump would be repeatedly nailed for something like this by the media. The media silence says something about how they cover things which appears very unbalanced.


----------



## james4beach

bass player said:


> What's next for Obama? He still has 11 days left* to cause as much havoc as possible*.


He must really hate America, right bass player?

Do you have any theories on why Obama hates America so much? I mean from your perspective. Personally I don't think Obama hates America.

That thing he did where he tried to bring healthcare to America, that was really malicious - dontya think?


----------



## Nelley

james4beach said:


> He must really hate America, right bass player?
> 
> Do you have any theories on why Obama hates America so much? I mean from your perspective. Personally I don't think Obama hates America.
> 
> That thing he did where he tried to bring healthcare to America, that was really malicious - dontya think?


Malicious or not, Obamacare certainly helped defeat Crooked Hillary.


----------



## new dog

From what people have told me is Obamacare turned out the way it did because of the compromises made to congress so it would pass. However some have countered and said Obama should not have signed it.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> You did a good job of trying to deflect Olivaw. I was wondering if anyone could explain how the media isn't grilling and going after Obama for letting Russia ship tons of weapons grade uranium to Iran. Again Trump would be repeatedly nailed for something like this by the media. The media silence says something about how they cover things which appears very unbalanced.


Deflect? Obama is not attempting to wreak havoc in his remaining days as president That invalidates your concern about the media's failure to cover it.


----------



## SMK

If Obama was such a uniter and good President, how on earth did the Americans elect a polar opposite in every sense? Obama was a weak President, and the Republicans are to blame for much of it. Obama like Clinton herself, was also unable to resist blaming everyone else except himself for the Clinton defeat, and even suggesting he would have won a third time, would he have? 
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-clinton-campaign-work-231370 - 
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...lame-for-russian-hacking-and-its-barack-obama

Plenty of blame to go around for Trump, and from the very top. That's real news folks.


----------



## bass player

james4beach said:


> He must really hate America, right bass player?
> 
> Do you have any theories on why Obama hates America so much? I mean from your perspective. Personally I don't think Obama hates America.
> 
> That thing he did where he tried to bring healthcare to America, that was really malicious - dontya think?


Of course you ignore that:

- he betrayed Israel, a friend of the US
- he approved Iran getting 130 tons of Uranium
- he has given Iran at least $10 billion in gold and cash
- he did nothing and is still doing nothing while North Korea arms itself with nukes
- he is starting a cold war with Russia over unproven election hacking claims
- he has set back race relations more than any president in history
- etc...

But hey...that Obamacare is really cool.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> You did a good job of trying to deflect Olivaw. I was wondering if anyone could explain how the media isn't grilling and going after Obama for letting Russia ship tons of weapons grade uranium to Iran. Again Trump would be repeatedly nailed for something like this by the media. The media silence says something about how they cover things which appears very unbalanced.


Wait, isn't Russia our cuddly friend that we should not be maligning in any way? If Obama tried to stop Russian trade, why, that might cause WW3.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Of course you ignore that:
> 
> - he has given Iran at least $10 billion in gold and cash


This is, of course, a lie. It is in reference to Obama UNFREEZING Iranian assets in exchange for concessions on their nuclear program. The US can't legally steal Iranian assets, so they never belonged to the US, and thus were not 'given', by Obama or anyone else, to Iran.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Of course you ignore that:
> 
> - he betrayed Israel, a friend of the US
> - he approved Iran getting 130 tons of Uranium
> - he has given Iran at least $10 billion in gold and cash
> - he did nothing and is still doing nothing while North Korea arms itself with nukes
> - he is starting a cold war with Russia over unproven election hacking claims
> - he has set back race relations more than any president in history
> - etc...
> 
> But hey...that Obamacare is really cool.


This is a series of right wing talking points: 

- Obama did not betray Israel. Are you talking about the U.N. resolution? 
- Russia is sending the Uranium to Iran, not Obama. 
- Obama gave Iran nothing. Frozen Iranian funds were freed when sanctions were lifted. 
- Obama is working with the Chinese to prevent N. Korea from developing the capacity to launch a nuclear weapon at Japan or the US. 
- I believe that Russia created the tension. First it attacked Georgia. Then it invaded Crimea. 
- Racism existed long before Obama became president. 
etc. 

Obama's approval rating is very good for a president at the end of his second term. I'd wager that history will be kind to him. 

Coincidentally, Trump's approval rating is terrible for a president who has yet to be sworn in. Even his supporters are growing tired of the childish tweets.


----------



## SMK

andrewf said:


> This is, of course, a lie. It is in reference to Obama UNFREEZING Iranian assets in exchange for concessions on their nuclear program. The US can't legally steal Iranian assets, so they never belonged to the US, and thus were not 'given', by Obama or anyone else, to Iran.


I don't think he's referring to the nuclear concessions but to this story. http://fortune.com/2016/08/05/money-america-iran/


----------



## new dog

I heard this story and that was a good link to it SMK.


----------



## new dog

andrewf said:


> Wait, isn't Russia our cuddly friend that we should not be maligning in any way? If Obama tried to stop Russian trade, why, that might cause WW3.


This doesn't fit the story the mainstream media wishes to push because it goes against the wrong guy, which is Obama. 

Most of the establishment which includes Republicans and Democrats would love to have Russia on a war footing. They need a cold war or a hot war to help bring in lots of money to support the war machine or the defence industry. Russia is the easiest and probably the most lucrative enemy for the industry and one of the easier enemies to sell to the US public. 

I see it but many people don't see it because the establishment and mainstream have sold it so well. Introduce the draft and you will see 100 percent of Democrats suddenly open their eyes and they will see it to. The left followers here will also see it because the mainstream media will be forced to show the evils of war as every democrat marches and protests against any conflict with Russia for any reason because they don't want to fight in it.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> I heard this story and that was a good link to it SMK.


Except the amount is a tiny fraction of the amount you claimed.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> This doesn't fit the story the mainstream media wishes to push because it goes against the wrong guy, which is Obama.
> 
> Most of the establishment which includes Republicans and Democrats would love to have Russia on a war footing. They need a cold war or a hot war to help bring in lots of money to support the war machine or the defence industry. Russia is the easiest and probably the most lucrative enemy for the industry and one of the easier enemies to sell to the US public.
> 
> I see it but many people don't see it because the establishment and mainstream have sold it so well. Introduce the draft and you will see 100 percent of Democrats suddenly open their eyes and they will see it to. The left followers here will also see it because the mainstream media will be forced to show the evils of war as every democrat marches and protests against any conflict with Russia for any reason because they don't want to fight in it.


There is a wide gulf between full mobilization/drafting people into the military for a hot war with Russia, and Trump's full roll-over/bootlicking of Putin. I am stunned that supposedly proud/patriotic Americans are worshiping Putin and mouthing his propaganda when Putin is certainly no friend of America and most likely a rival or enemy. Obama tried the thaw relations with Russia, and Russia went and started invading its neighbours as well as doings it s best to destabilize its neighbours and the EU. Destabilizing the west is not in America (or Canada's) interest. Destabilizing the West is in Russia's (or at least Putin's) interest as it allows him to exercise greater influence. Why any American would be rooting for that, down to cheering Russian manipulation of the US democratic process, blows my mind.

Also note that in the past couple of days, the Trump camp has changed its tune from "Russia had nothing to do with DNC hack/manipulating the US election" to "of course Russia manipulated the election--they always have. It's the DNC's fault they were hacked".


----------



## olivaw

The link to Fortune demonstrates that no ransom was paid. It was a release of 400 million in Iranian assets + interest which the US government froze when sanctions were imposed. 

The story illustrates how a legal financial transaction is spun by untrustworthy outlets and opposition politicians into a falsehood - one that is accepted uncritically by certain forum members.


----------



## new dog

The link was a good one andrewf but I didn't make the claim.

Russia isn't to be trusted and does invade at times just like the US does. In fact everything Russia does the US also does, so there are no angels here. However again this is mostly about money, power and greed and has very little to do with what is good for us or the world.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> There is a wide gulf between full mobilization/drafting people into the military for a hot war with Russia, and Trump's full roll-over/bootlicking of Putin. I am stunned that supposedly proud/patriotic Americans are worshiping Putin and mouthing his propaganda when Putin is certainly no friend of America and most likely a rival or enemy. Obama tried the thaw relations with Russia, and Russia went and started invading its neighbours as well as doings it s best to destabilize its neighbours and the EU. Destabilizing the west is not in America (or Canada's) interest. Destabilizing the West is in Russia's (or at least Putin's) interest as it allows him to exercise greater influence. Why any American would be rooting for that, down to cheering Russian manipulation of the US democratic process, blows my mind.
> 
> Also note that in the past couple of days, the Trump camp has changed its tune from "Russia had nothing to do with DNC hack/manipulating the US election" to "of course Russia manipulated the election--they always have. It's the DNC's fault they were hacked".


Russia has not done any destabilization of the West-OTOH the Neocons and the Soros crowd have been very successful-Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Merkel's problems all have nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with the aggressive destabilization program of the globalization crowd.


----------



## Nelley

Some more Fake News from the MSM-they just didn't think it newsworthy that the Florida airport shooter converted to Islam and took the name Aashiq Hammad (as opposed to Santiago) then shoots random infidels http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2...-identified-aashiq-hammad-years-joining-army/


----------



## new dog

Nelley said:


> Russia has not done any destabilization of the West-OTOH the Neocons and the Soros crowd have been very successful-Brexit, Trump, Le Pen, Merkel's problems all have nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with the aggressive destabilization program of the globalization crowd.



This is correct about what has been going on up to now. Russia of course does have some aggression but some of that can be attributed to the west knocking on its border. In Syria Obama armed terrorists either directly or indirectly in a bid to overthrow Assad. Russia was invited into Syria at the bidding of the government of Syria to get rid of the rebels and terrorists. Many people in Syria are actually happy Russia is there to get rid of the maniac rebels that were terrorizing the Syrian people. I am sure many said they were happy with the rebels when the rebels had control because they were fearful of what these people would do to them.


----------



## new dog

What do the forum buddies think of CNN and Buzzfeed being accused of fake news by the NYT. The story is about Trump and sex acts in Russian hotel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/business/buzzfeed-donald-trump-russia.html?_r=0

And then the zero hedge take on this story as well.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-11/nyt-suggests-cnn-buzzfeed-peddled-fake-news


----------



## bass player

I eagerly await CNN's apology for spreading fake news...


----------



## SMK

andrewf said:


> Except the amount is a tiny fraction of the amount you claimed.


Perhaps he confused the amount actually paid with the $10 billion the Iranians had initially demanded.

Any which way you want to look at any Iranian story, hardly anyone believes all of it coming from either the US president or the Islamic Republic's mullah, and that goes for the nuclear deal also.


----------



## none

It is wonderfully ironic considering how Trump used fake news to get where he is: eg. Birther movement and now it seems like (maybe) fake news is coming back to bite him.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> On the topic. I think you, nelley, bass and pluto are mistaken. Your argument appears to be that professional media outlets fall short of the ideal of objectivity and accuracy. You assign a sort of ethical equivalence to sites that have no commitment to objectivity and accuracy.
> 
> It's like giving equal weight to the medical opinion of a doctor and a random stranger in a bar. It's reasonable to seek a second opinion, but the second opinion needs to be trustworthy.


Did you read "Manufacturing Consent"? 

You simply declare your faith that mainstream media is objective. But objectivity is supposed to be free of faith, assumptions, and beliefs. You don't seem to make any attempts to justify your faith. What is your criteria for truth? It seems to be something like this: Journalists who make money at reporting, and are thereby professional, must know and tell the truth because they are professional. But on any given day one can see panels of such professionals disagreeing with each other on various matters. If they are objective, (IE free of faith, assumptions and beliefs) why do they disagree? 

For myself, I don't automatically accept any claim to truth from any source, mainstream or otherwise. that's because I am well aware that objectivity is a myth. Mercifully, the Internet has provided a means whereby people who know what they are talking about can present their perspective independent of the (filtering) values of the mainstream. 

And on the matter of a doctor vs a random guy in a bar. If I recall correctly, Gerry Spence, the famous lawyer, once worked for insurance companies. He had a case where a car accident victim had to sue the insurance for a claim. The guy was virtually crippled. But Spence and the insurance company hired a doctor to say otherwise. Spence apparently felt guilty after he won the case for the insurance company, and from that time forward, he ceased working for them. Doctors tend to side with whoever is paying them. Similarly with professional journalists and lawyers.


----------



## bass player

none said:


> It is wonderfully ironic considering how Trump used fake news to get where he is: eg. Birther movement and now it seems like (maybe) fake news is coming back to bite him.


All the latest fake news has done is once again proven the mainstream media spreads fake news and can't be trusted. I'm not sure how it hurts Trump...???


----------



## none

It's true - people are so polarized with Trump as they were with Obama.... at least on the conservative side Trump can do no wrong (even though he's admitted to sexual assault, gone bankrupt multiple times and is objectively a really horrible person) while Obama who you have to admit, seems like a very genuine, smart, scandal free individual is somehow the devil. It's weird.


----------



## bass player

none said:


> It's true - people are so polarized with Trump as they were with Obama.... at least on the conservative side Trump can do no wrong (even though he's admitted to sexual assault, gone bankrupt multiple times and is objectively a really horrible person) while Obama who you have to admit, seems like a very genuine, smart, scandal free individual is somehow the devil. It's weird.


Trump never admitted to sexual assault. Fake news.

Obama scandal free? More fake news.


----------



## SMK

No such thing as "scandal free" president.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> No such thing as "scandal free" president.


Some people have a very selective memory...


----------



## Nelley

none said:


> It is wonderfully ironic considering how Trump used fake news to get where he is: eg. Birther movement and now it seems like (maybe) fake news is coming back to bite him.


We all have birth certificates and can easily show where we were born-for Obama getting a birth certificate was as difficult as climbing K2.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> What do the forum buddies think of CNN and Buzzfeed being accused of fake news by the NYT. The story is about Trump and sex acts in Russian hotel.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/business/buzzfeed-donald-trump-russia.html?_r=0
> 
> And then the zero hedge take on this story as well.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-11/nyt-suggests-cnn-buzzfeed-peddled-fake-news


There is no fake news. 

NYT reported that Buzzfeeds did not follow journalistic practices and posted an unverified 35 page document prepared by a former British intelligence officer which discussed ties between the Russian government and Trump.

CNN picked up a portion of the story but declined to include the unverified portion. 

Again, this speaks to a tendency towards false equivalence among those who adhere to the alt-right. Buzzfeed's failure to adhere to journalistic standards is not equivalent to sites like infowars and zerohedge which manufacturer lies.


----------



## Nelley

none said:


> It's true - people are so polarized with Trump as they were with Obama.... at least on the conservative side Trump can do no wrong (even though he's admitted to sexual assault, gone bankrupt multiple times and is objectively a really horrible person) while Obama who you have to admit, seems like a very genuine, smart, scandal free individual is somehow the devil. It's weird.


Not weird-just stupid. Obozo did everything he was told to do-and put in a record amount of golf while he was at it-Trump looks like he is actually intending to help the country, which is 100 times harder.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> There is no fake news.
> 
> NYT reported that Buzzfeeds did not follow journalistic practices and posted an unverified 35 page document prepared by a former British intelligence officer which discussed ties between the Russian government and Trump.
> 
> CNN picked up a portion of the story but declined to include the unverified portion.
> 
> Again, this speaks to a tendency towards false equivalence among those who adhere to the alt-right. Buzzfeed's failure to adhere to journalistic standards is not equivalent to sites like infowars and zerohedge which manufacturer lies.


The fact that CNN left out the details is irrelevant...they gleefully reported on an unproven story all day long in another blatant attempt to taint Trump, but this time they paid the price for their actions. Trump refused to accept a question from them at his press conference. CNN is now outraged that they were put in their place.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> The fact that CNN left out the details is irrelevant...they gleefully reported on an unproven story all day long in another blatant attempt to taint Trump, but this time they paid the price for their actions. Trump refused to accept a question from them at his press conference. CNN is now outraged that they were put in their place.


Only a moron would believe anything on CNN at this point.


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> We all have birth certificates and can easily show where we were born-for Obama getting a birth certificate was as difficult as climbing K2.


His birth certificate was widely available. Crazy people (including Trump) decided to disbelieve its authenticity and wanted a super-official birth certificate, because the standard one that everyone has was not good enough. I don't blame Obama for not readily releasing it. It encouraged the crazies to advertise their craziness.

Where are Trump's tax returns? Where is a full disclosure of all Trump's holdings and potential conflicts of interest?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> The fact that CNN left out the details is irrelevant...they gleefully reported on an unproven story all day long in another blatant attempt to taint Trump,


Wrong. "Fake news" is manufactured fiction masquerading as fact. There is no manufactured fiction here. There is a 35 page document detailing Trump's ties to Russia. Buzzfeeds published the entirety of it. CNN reported only the verified (proven) portion of it.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Where is a full disclosure of all Trump's holdings and potential conflicts of interest?


Trump has made his potential conflicts of interest available to the proper people. I guess you're not one of them


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Trump has made his potential conflicts of interest available to the proper people. I guess you're not one of them


The concern is that the "proper people" are his own adult children.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> His birth certificate was widely available. Crazy people (including Trump) decided to disbelieve its authenticity and wanted a super-official birth certificate, because the standard one that everyone has was not good enough. I don't blame Obama for not readily releasing it. It encouraged the crazies to advertise their craziness.
> 
> Where are Trump's tax returns? Where is a full disclosure of all Trump's holdings and potential conflicts of interest?


Big money funded Crooked Hillary's campaign to the tune of 1.2 BILLION-I guess it was because she is so pleasant-LOL.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Wrong. "Fake news" is manufactured fiction masquerading as fact. There is no manufactured fiction here. There is a 35 page document detailing Trump's ties to Russia. Buzzfeeds published the entirety of it. CNN reported only the verified (proven) portion of it.


It is a document just like my toilet paper is a document.


----------



## sags

Buzzfeed reported the story and published the report online. 

It is a very disturbing report. 

I am not a Trump fan, but I hope the report isn't true because if it is it reveals a mentally sick man will become President of the US.

CNN reported the story had been given to Obama and Trump in security briefings as an unverified addendum to the full report. 

If the report is fake.......it questions Buzzfeed's credibility.

If intelligence agencies didn't provide the unverified report to Obama and Trump in security briefings............it questions CNN's credibility.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html


----------



## bass player

There is also the option that a known fake report was given to the media by an intelligence agency. If that's true, then anything their credibility should also be questioned.


----------



## sags

The story is that the media got the story from Buzzfeed, not the intelligence committee.

The story is also that the intelligence agencies presented it to Obama and Trump as an "unverified" addition to the full report.

The theory is the President and President - elect should know what is circulating in the media in advance of publication.

If the intelligence agencies presented the report to Obama and Trump as a *verified* report, or if the intelligence agencies leaked it to the press, I agree it was a blatant failure by the intelligence agency, and in that instance it would appear as "payback" to Trump by the intelligence agencies, and that just can't be allowed to happen.

Everyone on both sides of the politics in the US needs to take a step back and consider the consequences of the animosity.

The people won't know what or who to believe and it undermines the authority of the President.

Trump is going to be the President. 

I consider him as highly volatile, dangerous and without many moral standards.......but it is the self interest of everyone to have Trump surrounded by capable and strong people who aren't afraid to speak out and take charge if it came to that.

Mike Pence is such a VP as is Senator Jeff Sessions....although I disagree with some of their politics.

The fawning and smirky Ted Cruz types, wouldn't be of much value in a crisis situation.

In plain language.........if Trump gets nutsy it is better to have strong people who will take charge immediately.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> The story is that the media got the story from Buzzfeed, not the intelligence committee.
> 
> The story is also that the intelligence committee presented it to Obama and Trump as an "unverified" addition to the full report.
> 
> The theory is the President and President - elect should know what is circulating in the media in advance of publication.
> 
> If the intelligence committee presented the report to Obama and Trump as a *verified* report, I agree it was a blatant failure by the intelligence committee, and in that instance it would appear as "payback" to Trump by the intelligence agencies, and that just can't be allowed to happen.
> 
> Everyone on both sides of the politics in the US needs to take a step back and consider the consequences of the animosity.
> 
> The people won't know what or who to believe and it undermines the authority of the President.
> 
> Trump is going to be the President. I consider him as highly volatile, dangerous and without many moral standards.......but it is the self interest of everyone to have Trump surrounded by capable and strong people who aren't afraid to speak out and take charge if it came to that.
> 
> Mike Pence is such a VP and despite his shortcomings......so is Senator Jeff Sessions....although I disagree with their politics.
> 
> The fawning and smirky Ted Cruz types, wouldn't be of much value in a crisis situation.
> 
> In plain language.........if Trump gets nutsy it is better to have strong people who will take charge immediately.


I guess you are unaware of the long history of US intelligence agencies spreading disinformation.


----------



## sags

While it may serve their purpose in the clandestine world of security and intelligence to spread disinformation about enemies, I am unaware of US intelligence agencies spreading false information about their own President.

FBI Director, Hoover did keep a dossier on JFK, RFK and others, but he didn't make it publicly known.

That would simply be an intolerable situation, and should be considered treasonous behaviour.

The US intelligence agencies don't have to "like" the President or his politics. That isn't their function.


----------



## sags

On the separation of Trump's businesses from his politics.

Putting his business empire into the hand's of his children is a very bad decision.

The best scenario is that nothing happens over the term of his Presidency. The worst case is that Trump is continually mired in scandal.

Hopefully someone will convince Trump to put everything into a blind trust, as every other President has done.


----------



## bass player

The unforseen fallout from the non-stop attack on Trump by the media and Democrats is that their credibility is shot. One day they might report a real scandal or crime by Trump and no one will believe them.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> While it may serve their purpose in the clandestine world of security and intelligence to spread disinformation, I am unaware of US intelligence agencies spreading false information about their own President.
> 
> That would simply be an intolerable situation, and should be considered treasonous behaviour.
> 
> The US intelligence agencies don't have to "like" the President or his politics. That isn't their function.


Do some research-JFK had lots of problems with the CIA when he was POTUS-and he wasn't the only one. Don't believe everything you hear on CNN.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> On the separation of Trump's businesses from his politics.
> 
> Putting his business empire into the hand's of his children is a very bad decision.
> 
> The best scenario is that nothing happens over the term of his Presidency. The worst case is that Trump is continually mired in scandal.
> 
> Hopefully someone will convince Trump to put everything into a blind trust, as every other President has done.


The guy hasn't been in the job one day and you are already desperately afraid that he won't fail.


----------



## sags

Sorry, I was typing Hoover's role in when you responded.

But you are right, although I don't recall Hoover making the information public during their administration.

I could stand corrected, but that is what I recall.


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> Big money funded Crooked Hillary's campaign to the tune of 1.2 BILLION-I guess it was because she is so pleasant-LOL.


Wait, why are we talking about Hillary? I thought she is just a private citizen.


----------



## sags

Nelley said:


> The guy hasn't been in the job one day and you are already desperately afraid that he won't fail.


And you should be to.

I am not concerned about economic failures, climate change policies, or any domestic policies. Bad policies in those areas can be endured.

I am concerned about the combination of Trump's temperament, simplistic view of the world, and the military power that he alone will wield.

North Korea, Iran, Russia, China.............those are no jokes.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> The unforseen fallout from the non-stop attack on Trump by the media and Democrats is that their credibility is shot. One day they might report a real scandal or crime by Trump and no one will believe them.


I totally agree with you there.

Way too much angst on the side of the Democrats and CNN has given too much air time to guests and shows that focus on the "tragedy of Trump" from the liberal perspective.

I will also say the CNN panel of Trump supporters have done an admirable job, and I see that CNN has replaced some of the more "shrill" Clinton supporters with more refined guests to represent the Democrat side.

Personally, I don't care to watch another Van Jones special on how Clinton supporters are "coping" with the loss.

They cry wolf too many times, and I agree........people won't believe them anymore.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> I totally agree with you there.
> 
> Way too much angst on the side of the Democrats and CNN has given too much air time to guests and shows that focus on the "tragedy of Trump" from the liberal perspective.
> 
> They cry wolf too many times, and I agree........people won't believe them anymore.


Also, the rules have changed. Politicians used to rely on the mainstream media to get their message out to the public. But, the internet has changed that and they are no longer as important as they used to be. Trump knows he doesn't need the mainstream media and therefore can take actions against those who he feels lie or stretch the truth.

I wonder how close CNN is to being "uninvited" from White House press conferences?


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> I totally agree with you there.
> 
> Way too much angst on the side of the Democrats and CNN has given too much air time to guests and shows that focus on the "tragedy of Trump" from the liberal perspective.
> 
> I will also say the CNN panel of Trump supporters have done an admirable job, and I see that CNN has replaced some of the more "shrill" Clinton supporters with more refined guests to represent the Democrat side.
> 
> Personally, I don't care to watch another Van Jones special on how Clinton supporters are "coping" with the loss.
> 
> They cry wolf too many times, and I agree........people won't believe them anymore.


I read a poll the other day that 33% of CNN VIEWERS think they report the news honestly-it is like watching Jerry Springer.


----------



## sags

Destabilization and infighting in the west is exactly what Putin wants to create, while he continues his plan to return Russia to an empire again. The US needs to get their act together.


----------



## sags

Nelley said:


> I read a poll the other day that 33% of CNN VIEWERS think they report the news honestly-it is like watching Jerry Springer.


To me, the problem is in some of the populist anchors that CNN has ended up with.

All people want is an anchor reading the news and moderating expert guests on both sides of an issue.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> Destabilization and infighting in the west is exactly what Putin wants to create, while he continues his plan to return Russia to an empire again. The US needs to get their act together.


Don't go outside-Putin is watching you.


----------



## olivaw

Opinion panelists are not journalists. Most of them are lawyers. Their obligation is to their client and their client is a political party. Take what they say with a grain of salt and don't confuse presented opinion with proclaimed fact. 

Fake news doesn't arise when an opinion panelist expresses an opinion. It arises when an organization presents fiction as fact. CNN doesn't do that. Alex Jones does. CNN is widely regarded as credible. Alex Jones is not. CNN counts its viewership in the millions. Jones counts his in the thousands. 

Trump can't control American media access to the Whitehouse the way that Harper controlled Canadian media access to Parliament Hill. The power and legal dynamics are different in the US. 

Trump's angry late night tweets won't help him. Nobody cares what he thinks of Meryl Streep's acting .The majority of Americans want Trump to retire his twitter account. Even his (soon to be ex-) supporters have had enough of the nonsense. 

Trump will be sworn in with the lowest favourability rating of any president in modern history.


----------



## sags

A BBC reporter is now reporting there has been independent confirmation from European intelligence sources, that the Russians have several compromising videos with audio on Donald Trump.

We shall see how this all ends up, but Trump is starting out as an unpopular President and isn't doing much to improve it.


----------



## new dog

It is in Russia's best interest to have America look bad to its western partners especially. This way Russia can branch out, trade, gain greater ties with nations and become a lot more relevant in the world. Attacking NATO members will be WW3 and Russia will become nothing, along with much of the world. Neo-cons like Hillary and many republicans as well would like to create WW3 or another cold war and not stop it by pushing Russia.

Powerful rich people and globalists will win and the people will lose. We are already losing very badly from Bush onto Obama and it may already be to late.


----------



## new dog

We can also all agree now that fake news is a huge story today and not a useless topic to talk about as some might have thought here. It is being talked about all over the world and in Canada as the mainstream media and elites fight back the alt media and trying for censorship. Again this can also be painful to the portfolio as financial information could be filtered to you in the future leaving you without all the information.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/you-are-fake-news-trump-reporter-clash-at-press-conference-1.3237003

This is just from today and it goes to the top as Trump will be the president.


----------



## sags

Trump has his own interpretation of what fake news is...........anyone who doesn't recognize his "greatness."


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> A BBC reporter is now reporting there has been independent confirmation from European intelligence sources, that the Russians have several compromising videos with audio on Donald Trump.
> 
> We shall see how this all ends up, but Trump is starting out as an unpopular President and isn't doing much to improve it.


Trump has no intention of trying to please the braindead sheep-he will try to improve the economy but the chances of those who oppose the guy accepting reality are slim and none-no matter what the guy does.


----------



## olivaw

"those who oppose the guy" are the majority.


----------



## Pluto

olivaw said:


> There is no fake news.
> 
> NYT reported that Buzzfeeds did not follow journalistic practices and posted an unverified 35 page document prepared by a former British intelligence officer which discussed ties between the Russian government and Trump.
> 
> CNN picked up a portion of the story but declined to include the unverified portion.
> 
> Again, this speaks to a tendency towards false equivalence among those who adhere to the alt-right. Buzzfeed's failure to adhere to journalistic standards is not equivalent to sites like infowars and zerohedge which manufacturer lies.


CNN told all its viewers where to find the entire report. Then it claims moral superiority for not reporting what it reported.


----------



## wraphter

^

CNN did not provide a link to Buzzfeed, but they mentioned Buzzfeed on air. They did not provide the details of the Trump dossier on air
or online.


----------



## bass player

wraphter said:


> ^
> 
> CNN did not provide a link to Buzzfeed, but they mentioned Buzzfeed on air. They did not provide the details of the Trump dossier on air
> or online.


The details of what was in the report are not important. The reason why they ran the story is what matters. What they did was attempt to discredit Trump by reporting unsubstantiated fake news.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> The details of what was in the report are not important. The reason why they ran the story is what matters. What they did was attempt to discredit Trump by reporting unsubstantiated fake news.


^Except it does not appear to be fake news. Looks like there might be something there.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> ^Except it does not appear to be fake news. Looks like there might be something there.


Lol. Which fake news site did you get that from?


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> ^Except it does not appear to be fake news. Looks like there might be something there.


Today CNN will be doing a special report on all the homosexual men who have claimed to have had sex with Barack Obama in Chicago bathhouses.


----------



## Mechanic

I laughed yesterday when I saw Trump tell that reporter he wasn't getting a question because he was fake news.


----------



## Nelley

Mechanic said:


> I laughed yesterday when I saw Trump tell that reporter he wasn't getting a question because he was fake news.


I was surprised how patient his team has been with CNN-I don't see why they should get more access than TMZ if their agenda is to slander the guy.


----------



## Argonaut

Trump calling CNN fake news was probably the best moment in a presidential press conference this century.


----------



## sags

I think it is pretty dumb for Trump to pick fights with the intelligence agencies and the media.

I predict he will come to regret it in the future.


----------



## new dog

I am glad he is picking the fights and exposing or bringing light to what is going on out there.


----------



## new dog

C-Span today had its regular broadcasting of the congress or senate hearings or whatever interrupted by RT programming. Not sure what happened or how it happened it was probably internal they said.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/819654292042719233/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> I am glad he is picking the fights and exposing or bringing light to what is going on out there.


Yup. People that are silent now might be more willing to open up once Obama is gone.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> I think it is pretty dumb for Trump to pick fights with the intelligence agencies and the media.
> 
> I predict he will come to regret it in the future.


Maybe-maybe not-it is inspiring to see him stand up to evil.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> I think it is pretty dumb for Trump to pick fights with the intelligence agencies and the media.
> 
> I predict he will come to regret it in the future.


Or not. If someone in an intelligence agency released a known fake report to the media in an attempt to make Trump look bad, they should be worried right about now. Obama is days away from becoming totally and completely irrelevant. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few anonymous sources that will be ready to talk on Jan 20...


----------



## SMK

I hate the term "fake news", better call it lies and propaganda.

Journalism, R.I.P. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436230/donald-trump-journalism-bias-exposed


----------



## new dog

I completely agree with you SMK but I think the term "fake news" was adopted to sell censorship. It is far easier to say and repeat just like focusing on one enemy, like they are with Russia. Or identifying an enemy like Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban, Saddam, Assad and so on to sell and achieve their goals. "War on Blank" is a term used again and again to sell something. From the term or the enemy we then go to the media and have them push it.

Fake news as they call it is to get rid of Alt media or those that criticize the establishment so they have all the control of the message that goes out to the people.


----------



## Nelley

What is interesting is how much credibility with the public CNN has lost just over the last 12 months-the rigging of the presidential debate didn't help and now this.


----------



## olivaw

I wonder how big the boost to CNN's ratings will be after Trump's thin skinned outburst.


----------



## new dog

I actually have been watching CNN more even if I don't agree with everything being said.

I don't however listen to Alt left as in comparison to Alt right, stripping out the obvious outlandish stories of course.

I find the Alt right as in people on Alex Jones has pieces that make sense but I am not sure of the rest because I haven't listened to them. I find the Alt left is dream based, makes no sense and their numbers don't add up.


----------



## bass player

Amazon wants to add 100,000 jobs in the US. Several auto makers have announced that they will be heavily investing in the US. I'm trying to imagine the media hype and tongue bathing had Obama even got one auto maker to invest in the US...they'd be praising him 24/7. But, Trump does all that before even taking office and the silence from the media on these accomplishments is deafening.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> I wonder how big the boost to CNN's ratings will be after Trump's thin skinned outburst.


CNN's audience is about a third of Fox News at this point-so I guess it isn't MSM anymore-just for the stupidest of the sheep http://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-says-cnn-ratings-tanking-since-election-is-he-right/


----------



## Nelley

Nelley said:


> CNN's audience is about a third of Fox News at this point-so I guess it isn't MSM anymore-just for the stupidest of the sheep http://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-says-cnn-ratings-tanking-since-election-is-he-right/


The other joke is that 835000 viewers out of a country of 300 million is almost nobody watching.


----------



## new dog

bass player said:


> Amazon wants to add 100,000 jobs in the US. Several auto makers have announced that they will be heavily investing in the US. I'm trying to imagine the media hype and tongue bathing had Obama even got one auto maker to invest in the US...they'd be praising him 24/7. But, Trump does all that before even taking office and the silence from the media on these accomplishments is deafening.



Very true bass. When Trump does it CNN is worried about the effects on free trade. If Obama did it there would be no concern about free trade.


----------



## olivaw

Paul Ryan's town hall is being hosted on CNN.

It speaks to CNN's reputation as the US news network that appeals to moderates.

MSNBC leans left of centre, Fox leans right of centre, CNN is reasonably close to the American centre.


----------



## Eder

Argonaut said:


> Trump calling CNN fake news was probably the best moment in a presidential press conference this century.


He gained points with me.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Amazon wants to add 100,000 jobs in the US. Several auto makers have announced that they will be heavily investing in the US. I'm trying to imagine the media hype and tongue bathing had Obama even got one auto maker to invest in the US...they'd be praising him 24/7. But, Trump does all that before even taking office and the silence from the media on these accomplishments is deafening.


Wait, do you think automakers stopped investing in the US during the Obama years? Because that would mean you are very wrong.

And you really think Amazon is planning to grow because of Trump? That is just laughably stupid. Bezos would be amazed.


----------



## sags

With Hillary Clinton gone and Obama heading out the door.........the alt news websites now turn their attention to Donald Trump.

It has begun with Buzzfeed's story, and now the UK Guardian has jumped in with a story on possible impeachment of Trump.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/donald-trump-russia-dossier-what-happens-next

Trump loved the media during his campaign. Now.........not so much.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> With Hillary Clinton gone and Obama heading out the door.........the alt news websites now turn their attention to Donald Trump.
> 
> It has begun with Buzzfeed's story, and now the UK Guardian has jumped in with a story on possible impeachment of Trump.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/donald-trump-russia-dossier-what-happens-next
> 
> Trump loved the media during his campaign. Now.........not so much.


Even you aren't that stupid.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Wait, do you think automakers stopped investing in the US during the Obama years? Because that would mean you are very wrong.
> 
> And you really think Amazon is planning to grow because of Trump? That is just laughably stupid. Bezos would be amazed.


No, Amazon isn't planning on creating 100,000 jobs only because of Trump. But, they certainly aren't doing it because of Obama.

3 major auto makers have all made plans to expand in the US immediately after Trump was elected. None of them did so due to actions by Obama.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Trump loved the media during his campaign. Now.........not so much.


Trump used the media to his advantage during the election. But, everyone saw how they lied and now those who lied are paying the price for their actions. 

As Obama famously said "elections have consequences". CNN backed the wrong person and they still haven't figured out that by doubling down and continuing to attack Trump that they are writing their own obituary.


----------



## new dog

He has a lot of plans and ideas but there is a possibility of there being a recession fairly soon. If the Fed keeps raising and things turn down it will take a lot to right the ship again. He could be taking over at the worst time and be left with the mess and possibly the blame to go with it. The media would be happy to hang it on him I am sure.


----------



## olivaw

At one time, Donald Trump denied that the Russians hacked the US election. He accused intelligence agents of incompetence and media of lying. How quickly it has changed. *Trump's CIA pick says he agrees with intelligence community on Russia hacking*. Admitting that Russia hacked the US election is a new *Cabinet litmus test*. Trump *has conceded that Russia hacked the US election*. 

Now Trump has denied being briefed on the content of the documenting alleging the Russian ties and the dossier on him. He accused CNN of lying about it and tried to cast doubts on the intelligence community. But Joe Biden has *confirmed that senior intelligence agents had briefed him, Barack Obama and Donald Trump*. Trump's lie is unfolding. It doesn't matter how frequently Trump cries "fake news". It doesn't matter how often he tries to bully reporters. This story may not go away until the allegations are resolved.


----------



## new dog

Olivaw is a fighter, makes good points and you have to respect that. 

I think Russia is the key word, key enemy being used to set the agenda but that doesn't take away from the efforts Olivaw makes on these threads. Bass and SMK are also making good points making it hard on the likes of Olivaw. 

Fake news is now the centre of everything and the biggest trophy will go to the one who either convinces us to censor fake news or to the Alt outing the mainstream media.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> At one time, Donald Trump denied that the Russians hacked the US election. He accused intelligence agents of incompetence and media of lying. How quickly it has changed. *Trump's CIA pick says he agrees with intelligence community on Russia hacking*. Admitting that Russia hacked the US election is a new *Cabinet litmus test*. Trump *has conceded that Russia hacked the US election*.
> 
> Now Trump has denied being briefed on the content of the documenting alleging the Russian ties and the dossier on him. He accused CNN of lying about it and tried to cast doubts on the intelligence community. But Joe Biden has *confirmed that senior intelligence agents had briefed him, Barack Obama and Donald Trump*. Trump's lie is unfolding. It doesn't matter how frequently Trump cries "fake news". It doesn't matter how often he tries to bully reporters. This story may not go away until the allegations are resolved.


Did Crooked Hillary actually have a server set up in her toilet where she sent out highly classified material unsecured? Seems like any 12 year old computer geek could hack into that sloppy setup.


----------



## bass player

Even if Russia did hack the DNC servers, that doesn't mean that they did so in order to influence the election. It just means they (and others probably) tried to hack into them. Foreign entities try to hack all sorts of government data bases.

They tried to hack the Republican servers but couldn't get past their security. But, had they managed to do so, would the media have suggested that Russia tried to hack the election to favour Hillary? Of course not. The only reason this is suggested is to try to convince people and/or themselves that they didn't lose because they ran a bad candidate with a bad campaign.

Let's put this into perspective compared to another hack...last year, China hacked the CIA getting private information on 22 million people...many of them with security clearances. After a token news report, the silence from the media and Obama deafening.


----------



## bass player

Nelley said:


> Did Crooked Hillary actually have a server set up in her toilet where she sent out highly classified material unsecured? Seems like any 12 year old computer geek could hack into that sloppy setup.


Yes, she did. Also, John Podesta fell for a simple phishing scam. It was reported that his password was "password".


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> No, Amazon isn't planning on creating 100,000 jobs only because of Trump. But, they certainly aren't doing it because of Obama.
> 
> 3 major auto makers have all made plans to expand in the US immediately after Trump was elected. None of them did so due to actions by Obama.


The point is that the president (either Obama or Trump) was irrelevant to all of these decisions. The president doesn't "operate" the economy.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> The point is that the president (either Obama or Trump) was irrelevant to all of these decisions. The president doesn't "operate" the economy.


It's okay...you're allowed to ignore reality if it doesn't fit your ideology.


----------



## SMK

sags said:


> With Hillary Clinton gone and Obama heading out the door.......Trump loved the media during his campaign. Now.........not so much.


Good riddance to both, it was about time, but we're in for interesting times to say the least. 

Obama didn't love the media who was in love with him and gave him a free pass for the most part? Let's take a scroll down memory lane together, shall we? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9uDUnywMu0

How about Trudeau, he's not obsessed with the media? They're all a bunch of political narcissists, some are just better liars and more professorially politically correct. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...112/narcissism-why-its-so-rampant-in-politics

Thank you NatPost for keep nailing the opposite of fake news. http://business.financialpost.com/f...ed-down-his-legacy-and-its-vile-class-warfare


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> It's okay...you're allowed to ignore reality if it doesn't fit your ideology.


Well, if you are deluded enough to think that Amazon is growing because of the occupant on the white house, you are free to do so. I think that such a deranged view of the world will not serve you well.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Fake news is now the centre of everything and the biggest trophy will go to the one who either convinces us to censor fake news or to the Alt outing the mainstream media.


There is no call for censorship of sites like zero hedge and infowars that I am aware of - at least not on this forum. Those sites and others should remain free to express themselves - even if they express fiction masquerading as fact. The rest of us must also remain free to express our destain for them. 

Sites like CNN, Fox, NYT and others distribute real news. CNN's report is explosive but it is factually correct, appropriately sourced and carefully worded. Trump and his team wish that CNN hadn't revealed the existence of the memo. It's OK for them to say so. It's also OK for them to mistakenly think that CNN is biased. It's not OK for Trump to accuse them of lying when he is lying about the intelligence report. 

I know you folks would prefer to disbelieve anything bad about Trump but you can't cry "fake news" whenever an inconvenient fact is revealed. It's like sticking your fingers in your ear and crying "nah nah nah". 

The Russian link would be clever, I suppose. I didn't bring it up. Bass player did. Sock puppet nelley worked hard to direct the discussion towards it. Now that the facts are slowly coming out, sock puppet nelley is trying to direct the discussion away from it.


----------



## Eder

andrewf said:


> The point is that the president (either Obama or Trump) was irrelevant to all of these decisions. The president doesn't "operate" the economy.


Actually the promise of lower business taxes is a game changer in the USA for all kinds of global players. I think that was an idea by a businessman . Obama would have never thought of it.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> There is no call for censorship of sites like zero hedge and infowars that I am aware of - at least not on this forum. Those sites and others should remain free to express themselves - even if they express fiction masquerading as fact. The rest of us must also remain free to express our destain for them.
> 
> Sites like CNN, Fox, NYT and others distribute real news. CNN's report is explosive but it is factually correct, appropriately sourced and carefully worded. Trump and his team wish that CNN hadn't revealed the existence of the memo. It's OK for them to say so. It's also OK for them to mistakenly think that CNN is biased. It's not OK for Trump to accuse them of lying when he is lying about the intelligence report.
> 
> I know you folks would prefer to disbelieve anything bad about Trump but you can't cry "fake news" whenever an inconvenient fact is revealed. It's like sticking your fingers in your ear and crying "nah nah nah".
> 
> The Russian link would be clever, I suppose. I didn't bring it up. Bass player did. Sock puppet nelley worked hard to direct the discussion towards it. Now that the facts are slowly coming out, sock puppet nelley is trying to direct the discussion away from it.


CNN hosted a presidential debate and secretly gave the questions in advance to Crooked Hillary-and that is just one of their actions they were caught on-naturally sheep are going to defend this.


----------



## SMK

Eder said:


> Actually the promise of lower business taxes is a game changer in the USA for all kinds of global players. I think that was an idea by a businessman . Obama would have never thought of it.


Of course it's an idea by a businessman who owns businesses.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> Of course it's an idea by a businessman who owns businesses.


The Democrats seem to hate success of any kind...I guess they don't think it's "fair" when one person works hard and does better than someone else. So, they choose to punish the successful people in the name of equality... 

Successful businesses help the economy, while big government bent on "redistribution of the wealth" only hurts the economy.


----------



## SMK

^ Yea, only greedy people are successful, but my point was that Trump will benefit big time from his business tax cuts.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> ^ Yea, only greedy people are successful, but my point was that Trump will benefit big time from his business tax cuts.


Only Trump? What about all the rest of the hundreds of thousands of businesses?


----------



## like_to_retire

bass player said:


> The Democrats seem to hate success of any kind...I guess they don't think it's "fair" when one person works hard and does better than someone else. So, they choose to punish the successful people in the name of equality...
> 
> Successful businesses help the economy, while big government bent on "redistribution of the wealth" only hurts the economy.


Take money from those that earn it, and give it to those that don't - the very definition of socialism......

ltr


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> Only Trump? What about all the rest of the hundreds of thousands of businesses?


 Let me try again, I was responding to Eder's point that Obama would have never thought of cutting taxes, and not only because he's no business owner.


----------



## sags

Macy's is laying off 10,000 employees. Does Trump own that as well.


----------



## Eder

SMK said:


> ^ Yea, only greedy people are successful, but my point was that Trump will benefit big time from his business tax cuts.


According to most media he already pays little to no tax, so cuts won't help him much?


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> Let me try again, I was responding to Eder's point that Obama would have never thought of cutting taxes, and not only because he's no business owner.


Tip...next time you respond to someone else, quote them instead of posting directly below me with an arrow pointing to my post


----------



## Eder

sags said:


> Macy's is laying off 10,000 employees. Does Trump own that as well.


Heres why Macys is laying off 10000...same crap elsewhere cost half. This is what I was shopping for...guess where I bought it?

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...oryID=71868#fn=sp=1&spc=16&ruleId=52&slotId=1

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nespress...ategy=PWVAV&visitor_id=aXAuYTrBmXqUbJBt0iTZxA


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> Tip...next time you respond to someone else, quote them instead of posting directly below me with an arrow pointing to my post


I did quote in 453. 455 was to clarify what I said in post 453. 

Eder, I was gazing into the future. :biggrin:


----------



## new dog

This is a little unusual removing Maj. Gen. Errol Schwartz who heads the DC National guard on inauguration day.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...484323834636&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.3997f762e293


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> This is a little unusual removing Maj. Gen. Errol Schwartz who heads the DC National guard on inauguration day.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...484323834636&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.3997f762e293


Hmmm...putting plans in place for martial law??


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

"Any day now we are going to be told that Elvis is secretly working with Putin to deploy a Zhirinovskian gravitational weapon in a UFO disguised as Jesus that Assange and Snowden will personally pilot across the Atlantic to sink America. It’s like some kind of loyalty test in which the ruling classes are trying to determine just how far they can go with this crap before liberals refuse to salute any more of it."

Full article here http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/13/why-ridiculous-official-propaganda-still-works/


----------



## olivaw

The Russia links continue. Contact between Michael Flynn and the Russian Ambassador prior to assuming office is raising eyebrows and creating concern among US allies. 

Trump tweeted that US intelligence agencies are responsible for leaking "fake news".

Less than a week until Trump has access to the nuclear codes. :dread:


----------



## Nelley

Rusty O'Toole said:


> "Any day now we are going to be told that Elvis is secretly working with Putin to deploy a Zhirinovskian gravitational weapon in a UFO disguised as Jesus that Assange and Snowden will personally pilot across the Atlantic to sink America. It’s like some kind of loyalty test in which the ruling classes are trying to determine just how far they can go with this crap before liberals refuse to salute any more of it."
> 
> Full article here http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/13/why-ridiculous-official-propaganda-still-works/


GREAT article-you see that here at CMF (Sheep behaviour)-rather than logically defend a position, the sheep immediately appeal to authority or popularity or repeat the "correct" response (usually the MSM line).


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> The Russia links continue. Contact between Michael Flynn and the Russian Ambassador prior to assuming office is raising eyebrows and creating concern among US allies.
> 
> Trump tweeted that US intelligence agencies are responsible for leaking "fake news".
> 
> Less than a week until Trump has access to the nuclear codes. :dread:


The rumour is the Siberian Gulag is going to be taken public in monster IPO-get in on the ground floor Comrade.


----------



## new dog

It is a good article by Rusty and so true. We know that many countries are trying to hack each other and would be idiots if they didn't try to, in order to gain information and advantage. If the establishment decided it was China they wanted to go after they would have simply inserted China, removed Russia and off they go. Again during the 70's war was bad and songs were made about the uselessness of war. Today not a word from any of the same liberals as the playbook Rusty linked is being played out.


----------



## new dog

Climate change whether it is real or not is the same playbook. The establishment want control over this issue to gain money and power over it.


----------



## mordko

CounterPunch is a far left virulently Antisemitic rag which publishes the likes of "Israel Shamir" (Russian Neo nazi, not real name). It's telling that the far right Trump fan base is now quoting CounterPunch. Extremes have a lot in common.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> The Russia links continue. Contact between Michael Flynn and the Russian Ambassador prior to assuming office is raising eyebrows and creating concern among US allies.


Lol. Perhaps you should read the article Rusty linked. Your condition is explained 

"The current “Russian hacking” hysteria is a perfect example of how this works. No one aside from total morons actually believes this official narrative (the substance of which is beyond ridiculous), not even the stooges selling it to us. This, however, is not a problem, because it isn’t intended to be believed … it is intended to be accepted and repeated, more or less like religious dogma."


----------



## mordko

And here is the article which explains the authors condition http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/13/how-putin-played-the-far-left.html


----------



## sags

Interesting that contained in the hacking report, was a lengthy description of how the Russian hacking may have spun out of control and been taken too far and that Putin feared the US reaction.

In real news......Obama publicly stated some sanctions, and also said there would be further unannounced repercussions.

US troops and tanks arrived in Poland the other day. The US is shipping missile defense systems to allies.

Investigations have been announced by the FBI and CIA, and special hearings have been announced in the Congress and Senate.

As Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said about Japan's successful surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.........

View attachment 13538


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

Six months ago the Hillary Clinton camp was accused of being careless with cyber security, leaving America's secrets open to being hacked by the Russians, Chinese, or whoever wanted them.

This they vehemently denied.

Then Wikileaks published their Emails, revealing how corrupt and incompetent they were which cost them the election, or so they claim.

Now they are wailing about Russian hackers, the same thing they denied just a few months ago.

To anyone with a memory longer than a goldfish it is actually funny.


----------



## sags

US forces are stationed along the Polish border with Russia.

It makes Putin look very weak, with the Americans standing on the edge of his property staring him down.

Obama is setting it up so Trump has to make a decision. Will Trump leave the troops in place or remove them and look weak ?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Lol. Perhaps you should read the article Rusty linked. Your condition is explained
> 
> "The current “Russian hacking” hysteria is a perfect example of how this works. No one aside from total morons actually believes this official narrative (the substance of which is beyond ridiculous), not even the stooges selling it to us. This, however, is not a problem, because it isn’t intended to be believed … it is intended to be accepted and repeated, more or less like religious dogma."


Pretty much everyone believes that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta's email. You might as well proclaim that nobody aside from total morons believes that gravity exists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-poll-idUSKBN14X2IF


----------



## Nelley

mordko said:


> And here is the article which explains the authors condition http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/13/how-putin-played-the-far-left.html


Every day fewer and fewer people are intimidated by your Kill The Messenger mentality-no one is afraid of you-so STFU.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Pretty much everyone believes that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta's email. You might as well proclaim that nobody aside from total morons believes that gravity exists.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-poll-idUSKBN14X2IF


From memory-the last poll results were very weak on this Russia B/S-17% buying it? Even the sheep are waking.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Every day fewer and fewer people are intimidated by your Kill The Messenger mentality-no one is afraid of you-so STFU.


Kill The Messenger - is that like when Trump attacks Intelligence Officers and CNN Reporters for revealing things he doesn't want revealed?


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Kill The Messenger - is that like when Trump attacks Intelligence Officers and CNN Reporters for revealing things he doesn't want revealed?


No Einstein-it is when rather than judge the info being presented all that is focused on is the perceived status of the presenter of the info. Jeez.


----------



## mordko

The "messenger" has nothing to say that actually makes any sense. He appears to be claiming that people are just saying that the Russians hacked DNC, but don't actually believe it. His reasonong supporting this wild claim? There isn't any. 

As such, I can't see a message. Why is he spouting obvious nonsense? Because he is a lefty who happens to be sufficiently dumb to be taken in by Putin's propaganda. It's impossible to make a reasoned case explaining why every person with any expertise in the subject believes that the Russians interfered in the election so this guy is just linking words into sentences not in any way connected by the logic.

And yes, credentials of the source are important. When I eat something I like to know where it came from. Those who like eating crap care little for the origin of their foodstuffs.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> From memory-the last poll results were very weak on this Russia B/S-17% buying it? Even the sheep are waking.


Your memory has it exactly backwards. The majority believes that Russia was behind the hacks. The 17% are the folks who doubt the Russia link. 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/poll-russia-dnc-campaign-hack-233428


> The Pew Research Center survey shows 72 percent of Americans who have heard or read about the allegations of hacking the DNC and Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s personal email account believe Russia was “definitely” or “probably” responsible. Only 17 percent think Russia was “probably not behind” the hacks, and 7 percent say Russia was “definitely not” culpable.


----------



## sags

There is an article on Slate website that details the timeline and chronology of events regarding the Russian involvement.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...efend_russia_and_attack_u_s_intelligence.html

It appears to show a close correlation between proven events and statements coming from the Trump campaign team or Trump himself.

Public statements and tweets have left a trail for investigators to follow.

One case in point.......

Rudy Giuliani made a public comment during a live interview, that "surprises" were coming that would halt the Hillary Clinton campaign.

A few days later, Wikileaks released the hacked Clinton information.

Giuliani tried to walk back his statement claiming he only thought something might happen.

Shortly after that Giuliani, once touted as a nominee for several high level cabinet posts, started receiving less public exposure for the Trump team and was eventually quietly dropped from any consideration for any cabinet post. He said there were no positions he was interested in filling.

Giuliani's statements are relevant now, because the allegations in the most recent intelligence reports are that the Trump team knew in advance of the upcoming Clinton Wikileaks, because they had been in contact with Russians for some time.

Was prior information on the Wikileaks drop the impetus behind Giuliani's statement about some impending bad news for Clinton ?

In an attempt to quell the controversy, Donald Trump has announced he will appoint a team of specialists to fight against hacking.

The company chosen is owned by..........wait for it..........Rudy Giuliani.

There appears to be some panic in Trump Towers.

The intelligence agencies are digging in and the allegations of cooperation with Russia could result in criminal charges.

Communication records within Russian territory would be difficult to obtain, but it won't be that difficult for investigators to obtain communication records for members of Trump's team that were originated from within the US.

It has been revealed that Trump's national security adviser had been in contact with the Russian ambassador, on the day that sanctions were put onto Russia. The Trump team claim it was a coincidence, to coordinate a phone call that would be made weeks into the future. It sounds sketchy as a hastily devised excuse and nobody is believing it, especially since the security adviser, retired general Mike Flynn has been reprimanded on several occasions in the past for breach of military protocols.

This story is only in the beginning stages. This is the tip of the iceberg so far.


----------



## bass player

Slate? Why not just quote Buzzfeed, lol.


----------



## sags

The timelines are there. The statements and events are in the public domain.

If the statements and events are not correct or factual, the errors should be evident.

We shall see if they are challenged on the merits of their story.


----------



## sags

The headline from the Slate article reads.........

_*Why Does Donald Trump Continue to Defend Russia and Attack U.S. Intelligence?

If collusion doesn’t explain his behavior, what does?*_

It is a question many are asking themselves these days, including the intelligence agencies.


----------



## like_to_retire

sags said:


> The headline from the Slate article reads.........
> 
> _*Why Does Donald Trump Continue to Defend Russia and Attack U.S. Intelligence?
> 
> If collusion doesn’t explain his behavior, what does?*_
> 
> It is a question many are asking themselves these days, including the intelligence agencies.


I suspect they should ask the question whether they would rather be a friend or an enemy to Russia.

It's a novel idea, but it's obvious what Trump thinks about that.

ltr


----------



## Nelley

Glenn Greenwald summing up this Russia Fake News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGnbUORijmg


----------



## sags

Another story in the British media about the FBI "sitting" on the Trump reports, while focusing on Hillary Clinton.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-hacking-christopher-steele-mi6-a7526901.html

Interesting that the security firms were originally hired by the Republicans and were later hired by the Democrats.

This story dovetails with the latest scandal involving FBI Director James Comey's intrusion into the election campaign.

It also provides timelines for some of Trump's statements about Russian activities.

An investigation has now been launched into the FBI Director's handling of the investigation.

Democrats were not impressed after a closed door meeting with Comey.

It is starting to emerge there was an unified effort to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign.


----------



## mordko

bass player said:


> Slate? Why not just quote Buzzfeed, lol.


... but CounterPunch is somehow OK???


----------



## new dog

I liked the article Rusty posted but I have never visited or been to the CounterPunch site before. It does say on Wikipedia that it is a left wing site and does talk about the Israeli-Arab conflict.


----------



## mordko

It's a Stalinist website, now shilling for Putin and whitewashing various genocidal socialist regimes (like Pol Pots Cambodia), using writers directly affiliated with FSB. Some examples:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/putins-triumph/
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/18/pol-pot-revisited/

And here is an example of CounterPunch promoting traditional blood libel against Jews. http://adamholland.blogspot.ca/2009/09/blood-libel-promoted-by-counterpunch.html

It is rather sweet how the far right Trump supporters are using commie sources to whitewash Putin.


----------



## mordko

And, of course, it's not just the NEWS that are being faked. History is being faked too. 

Because anyone can say any lie on the web without consequences and millions of comple imbeciles will buy it. Interesting reference to Trump supporters. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/15/david-irving-youtube-inspiring-holocaust-deniers


----------



## olivaw

sags said:


> Another story in the British media about the FBI "sitting" on the Trump reports, while focusing on Hillary Clinton.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-hacking-christopher-steele-mi6-a7526901.html


Interesting read. Both Trump and Obama were briefed on the allegations. A week later Trump called it "fake news" and tried to bully a reporter. Less that a week after that, Trump's spokesman is saying that Trump had temporarily forgotten about the briefing. 

The investigator was so concerned about his findings that he continued the research after he was no longer being paid. 

I think it has been established that this is a real news story.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Interesting read. Both Trump and Obama were briefed on the allegations. A week later Trump called it "fake news" and tried to bully a reporter. Less that a week after that, Trump's spokesman is saying that Trump had temporarily forgotten about the briefing.
> 
> The investigator was so concerned about his findings that he continued the research after he was no longer being paid.
> 
> I think it has been established that this is a real news story.


Unproven allegations are not real news, they are unproven allegations. Real news would be events that actually happened.

Critical thinking seems to be beyond the capability of some people....


----------



## sags

Most high level intelligence is derived from "unnamed sources" due to the risk to those involved.

It is the job of the intelligence agencies to assign a level of "trust" to how the information was obtained.

The intelligence agencies determined the report was worthy of their "highest confidence".

People have to make a decision to trust their own intelligence agencies or the Russians.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> Most high level intelligence is derived from "unnamed sources" due to the risk to those involved.
> 
> It is the job of the intelligence agencies to assign a level of "trust" to how the information was obtained.
> 
> The intelligence agencies determined the report was worthy of their "highest confidence".
> 
> People have to make a decision to trust their own intelligence agencies or the Russians.
> 
> Donald Trump says he trusts the Russians..........because they said they didn't do it.


You forgot the part about lying and deception-it is also an important mandate.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Most high level intelligence is derived from "unnamed sources" due to the risk to those involved.


Intelligence agency people have political agendas, too. It's a mistake to assume that every "leak" is factual or that every employee is non-partisan...especially when you look at Comey or Lynch's actions over the past year or so.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Unproven allegations are not real news, they are unproven allegations. Real news would be events that actually happened.
> 
> Critical thinking seems to be beyond the capability of some people....


Critical thinking is the evaluation of information, not the suppression of it. The press doesn't wait for a conviction before it reports a crime.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Critical thinking is the evaluation of information, not the suppression of it. The press doesn't wait for a conviction before it reports a crime.


The press normally reports the "crime" as an alleged crime, not as a proven fact. As there is no proof or facts to support Russia "hacking the elections", then declaring that Russia hacked the election is FAKE NEWS.

As there are no facts behind the false claim that Russia has dirt on Trump based on a fake dossier no one in the intelligence community will stand behind, then reporting it as fact instead of reporting it as an unproven allegation is FAKE NEWS.

You really struggle with comprehension, don't you? Even after something is clearly explained, you fail to grasp it. I'm torn as to whether you should be mocked or pitied...


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> The press normally reports the "crime" as an alleged crime, not as a proven fact. As there is no proof or facts to support Russia "hacking the elections", then declaring that Russia hacked the election is FAKE NEWS.


Re-read your own post and try to see the inconsistency.

The press reports the allegation of a crime. We learn the truth of the allegation when the facts come in through the subsequent police investigation and the trial. 

The press reported the allegation of Russian hacking. The subsequent security investigation revealed that the allegations are probably true. 

The press reported the allegation of Russian dirt and Trump staff ties to Russia. The facts are still coming in. Trump has already backtracked on his initial response.


----------



## new dog

This story about congressmen John Lewis and civil rights hero is making its way through the mainstream blaming Trump for criticizing him. The criticism however comes after John Lewis called Trump an illegitimate president.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ight-after-calling-trump-illegitimate-n707146


----------



## mordko

...which seems only fair after Trump's birtherism conspiracy in respect to Obama.


----------



## new dog

Or how about professors using class time to protest Trump.

http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/01/14/profs-pledge-use-regular-class-time-protest-trump

It is just more of the same after they nailed him for criticizing that Khan job guy in the summer.

By the way good links a few posts back Mordko. Not a site I will really want to visit.


----------



## new dog

Olivaw I think you might enjoy this article directly from Zerohedge about Trump's interviews in Germany and London. He said BREXIT was a great thing and he will do a trade deal with Britain. He also said other countries will leave the European union because of the deep damage caused by the migrant crisis.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...to-and-eu-threatens-bmw-tax-ready-cut-ties-me


----------



## olivaw

Trump is privately a globalist but publicly a protectionist. He has to say that Brexit is wonderful. It appears that zerohedge accidentally printed something true. You know what they say about a blind squirrel.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> This story about congressmen John Lewis and civil rights hero is making its way through the mainstream blaming Trump for criticizing him. The criticism however comes after John Lewis called Trump an illegitimate president.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ight-after-calling-trump-illegitimate-n707146


It's news because it speaks to Trump's reputation as a thin skinned bully. He is president elect and will be president in less than a week. Why is he punching down?


----------



## wraphter

Trump is a scatterbrain who will say whatever it takes to con his audience .Then he will change his mind 24 hours later.
Women should be punished for getting abortions: no they shouldn't.
Taxes should be raised on the rich : no they should be lowered.
Obama is a good man: no he isn't.
I will get along with Putin: maybe I won't. 

That's why he is held to lower standards than other people.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> It's news because it speaks to Trump's reputation as a thin skinned bully. He is president elect and will be president in less than a week. Why is he punching down?


Why is Lewis questioning a democratic election? Where was his outrage when the Democrats rigged the primaries and gave questions to Hillary in advance of the debates? If he's truly a "civil rights hero", then where was his outrage when Bill Clinton praised KKK recruiter Robert Byrd (and life long Democrat) at his funeral? Where was his outage when Hillary called Byrd a mentor?

The selective outrage from the left is pitiful and deserves to be mocked.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Why is Lewis questioning a democratic election? Where was his outrage when the Democrats rigged the primaries and gave questions to Hillary in advance of the debates? If he's truly a "civil rights hero", then where was his outrage when Bill Clinton praised KKK recruiter Robert Byrd (and life long Democrat) at his funeral? Where was his outage when Hillary called Byrd a mentor?
> 
> The selective outrage from the left is pitiful and deserves to be mocked.


Nice try - attack John Lewis for drawing Trump's ire instead of president-elect Trump for wasting time on the wrong battles: John Lewis, John Brennan, SNL, Meryl Streep, Jim Acosta - seriously?


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Nice try - attack John Lewis for drawing Trump's ire instead of president-elect Trump for wasting time on the wrong battles: John Lewis, John Brennan, SNL, Meryl Streep, Jim Acosta - seriously?


You failed to answer the question, to no one's surprise.

Once again...where was Lewis's outrage when both Clinton's praised KKK recruiter Robert Byrd?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> You failed to answer the question, to no one's surprise.
> 
> Once again...where was Lewis's outrage when both Clinton's praised KKK recruiter Robert Byrd?


Nobody answers your questions because you keep trying to change the subject. We were talking about president-elect Trump. Of particular note:
- He continues to attack SNL
- He attacks Meryl Streep, John Lewis, John Brennan
- He berates Jim Acosta and then sends in his surrogates to verbally assault the man
- He held an absurd press event - perhaps one of the least dignified in American presidential history. 

Trump does nothing to assuage our fears and much to amplify them. The only truly relevant question is "Will the Trump presidency be as disastrous as many of us fear?"


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Nobody answers your questions because you keep trying to change the subject. We were talking about president-elect Trump.


Earlier you commented that Trump's reaction to Lewis's comments showed him to be a bully:



> It's news because it speaks to Trump's reputation as a thin skinned bully. He is president elect and will be president in less than a week. Why is he punching down?


But, once facts regarding Lewis' selective outrage were brought up, you accuse me of trying to change the topic.

We all see through your fake outrage, lol.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Earlier you commented that Trump's reaction to Lewis's comments showed him to be a bully:
> 
> 
> 
> But, once facts regarding Lewis' selective outrage were brought up, you accuse me of trying to change the topic.
> 
> We all see through your fake outrage, lol.


Now you're just being silly. Nobody is interested in what Lewis said, or didn't say, in 2010. We were talking about what Trump said in 2017. 

New dog wondered why the media paid attention to Trump's attacks on Congressman Lewis. I noted that his bullying of Lewis was consistent with his attacks on other individuals. It's news when a president consistently exhibits unhealthy characteristics and Trump appears to be unable to grow beyond his tendency to bully.


----------



## bass player

So, anyone who disagrees with a Democrat or points out a falsehood is a bully? But, the Democrats can bully Trump all day long and that's fine.

Unfortunately for some, the rules have been changed and the media and Democrats will now be called out for their lies and hypocrisy. You better get used to it, because suffering from fake outrage and selective memory just won't work anymore.


----------



## mordko

There is an element of truth here. GB endured unimaginable BS and childish, hypocritical backbiting from the Dems and CNN and stayed above the fray. So did Harper. Many people had enough and are happy to see that someone is biting back.

Having said this... Attacking SNL? Attacking Meryl Streep by saying that she is a bad actor? Really? And given the "birtherism" idiotism, what moral right does Trump have attacking anyone questioning his legitimacy?


----------



## bass player

Trump needs to choose his battles more wisely...many of the celebrity rants should just be ignored as the drivel they are.

However, don't forget that Obama was the original birther. This was even verified by leftist site Snopes. A promotional pamphlet said this about him:

"Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he attended Columbia University"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> Trump needs to choose his battles more wisely...


Little hope for that with his uncontrollable penchant for insults at all hours of the day. The man needs medical help.


----------



## sags

As Obama and past Presidents have pointed out..........words from a President can cause stock markets to move and wars to begin.


----------



## Nelley

wraphter said:


> Trump is a scatterbrain who will say whatever it takes to con his audience .Then he will change his mind 24 hours later.
> Women should be punished for getting abortions: no they shouldn't.
> Taxes should be raised on the rich : no they should be lowered.
> Obama is a good man: no he isn't.
> I will get along with Putin: maybe I won't.
> 
> That's why he is held to lower standards than other people.


Trump won because the public is sick of being talked to by politicians-they literally don't care what Trump or anyone else says-it is just the MSM that focuses on it-the public simply wants economic results.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Nobody answers your questions because you keep trying to change the subject. We were talking about president-elect Trump. Of particular note:
> - He continues to attack SNL
> - He attacks Meryl Streep, John Lewis, John Brennan
> - He berates Jim Acosta and then sends in his surrogates to verbally assault the man
> - He held an absurd press event - perhaps one of the least dignified in American presidential history.
> 
> Trump does nothing to assuage our fears and much to amplify them. The only truly relevant question is "Will the Trump presidency be as disastrous as many of us fear?"


LOL-if (according to you) Trump is not an absolute disaster then the guy will have been the greatest thing since sliced bread and will be re-elected in a landslide.


----------



## Nelley

mordko said:


> There is an element of truth here. GB endured unimaginable BS and childish, hypocritical backbiting from the Dems and CNN and stayed above the fray. So did Harper. Many people had enough and are happy to see that someone is biting back.
> 
> Having said this... Attacking SNL? Attacking Meryl Streep by saying that she is a bad actor? Really? And given the "birtherism" idiotism, what moral right does Trump have attacking anyone questioning his legitimacy?


You are not speaking for the public-Obama speaks exactly like an anchorman-eg Ron Burgundy-all empty pap for 8 years-huge segment of the population is sick of this MSM focus on meaningless words. They don't care anymore at all about it.


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> Trump won because the public is sick of being talked to by politicians-they literally don't care what Trump or anyone else says-it is just the MSM that focuses on it-the public simply wants economic results.


They're tired of being bullshitted by politicians, they want to be bullshitted by a third rate TV personality instead.

I will make the bold prediction that Trump will be even less popular a year after his inauguration than his already historically-low popularity when he takes office.


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> You are not speaking for the public-Obama speaks exactly like an anchorman-eg Ron Burgundy-all empty pap for 8 years-huge segment of the population is sick of this MSM focus on meaningless words. They don't care anymore at all about it.


Meanwhile, Trump often speaks in totally incoherent sentence fragments.


----------



## new dog

Trump blasts outgoing CIA director Brennan of fake news after Russian threat criticism.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ennan-after-criticism-over-russia-threat.html

Andrewf you may end up being right about Trumps popularity after one year but he is the last hope out of all the junk that the US could have elected.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> They're tired of being bullshitted by politicians, they want to be bullshitted by a third rate TV personality instead.
> 
> I will make the bold prediction that Trump will be even less popular a year after his inauguration than his already historically-low popularity when he takes office.


By bold you mean stupid.


----------



## bass player

Fake News:

"Hillary Clinton is the Legitimate President-Elect"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-legitimate-president_us_587930cfe4b077a19d180d84


----------



## bass player

More fake news:

"There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant"

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/donald-trump-illegal-immigrant


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> You are not speaking for the public-Obama speaks exactly like an anchorman-eg Ron Burgundy-all empty pap for 8 years-huge segment of the population is sick of this MSM focus on meaningless words. They don't care anymore at all about it.


Neither are you. Trump lost the popular vote by close to 3 million votes.

Obama favorability +14.7%
Trump favorability -6%


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Neither are you. Trump lost the popular vote by close to 3 million votes.
> 
> Obama favorability +14.7%
> Trump favorability -6%


Only an idiot would repeat that 3 million votes nonsense-almost all of that is in California, where Trump voters stayed home rather than waste their time-you can't change the rules after the contest-Trump won easily under the rules of the contest-this isn't football, they don't pay for yardage.


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> Only an idiot would repeat that 3 million votes nonsense-almost all of that is in California, where Trump voters stayed home rather than waste their time-you can't change the rules after the contest-Trump won easily under the rules of the contest-this isn't football, they don't pay for yardage.


What about all the Dem voters that stayed home in red states?

If we count lukewarm supporters who stayed home instead of voting, Hillary would have won.


----------



## bass player

More fake news:

Democrat John Lewis stated that he will miss the first inauguration in his life and this made headlines across the media. One little problem...HE LIED. He also skipped Bush's inauguration.

However, I'm sure the media will immediately apologize for spreading fake news and also question Lewis as to why he lied.


----------



## new dog

Back to the poll oversampling again by the media.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...mp-favorabilty-through-aggressive-oversamples


----------



## new dog

Its about time Russia fought back as Sergey Lavrov accuses Germany, UK and France of grossly interfering in US election in favour of Hillary. One could make an argument that Hillary won the popular vote because of these world leaders interfering. Funny how CNN and everyone else just ignores this. I don't see how forum buddies could see this any differently. Maybe trump should punish them when he gets into office.

https://www.rt.com/news/374117-lavrov-west-demonized-trump/


----------



## bass player

I'm wondering if Trump one-upped the media again but they don't know it yet. 

First it was suggested that a larger press room be used and the MSM went nuts because they didn't want their hierarchy in the press room threatened. Trump immediately appeased to their wish and agreed to continue to use the original 49 seat press room. What happens next...some of the MSM will now not be invited (CNN?) so that room can be for alternative media sources.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Back to the poll oversampling again by the media.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...mp-favorabilty-through-aggressive-oversamples


Fake polls to go along with fake news...


----------



## new dog

bass player said:


> I'm wondering if Trump one-upped the media again but they don't know it yet.
> 
> First it was suggested that a larger press room be used and the MSM went nuts because they didn't want their hierarchy in the press room threatened. Trump immediately appeased to their wish and agreed to continue to use the original 49 seat press room. What happens next...some of the MSM will now not be invited (CNN?) so that room can be for alternative media sources.



I never thought of this, it would be pretty funny if info-wars gets in and and there is no room left for CNN.


----------



## bass player

CNN could be just the first casualty...

Maybe he'll just fire a warning shot the first time a major MSM reports fake news and only ban that reporter. That immediately forces the rest of the MSM reporters to choose between the press box or their boss. Destroy them from within...


----------



## new dog

Rosie O'Donnell says they should impose martial law to stop Trump.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12369/rosie-odonnell-declare-martial-law-stop-trump-ben-shapiro

What is even more insane is I saw a video of someone asking people on the street if calling martial law would be a good idea to stop trump. Many said it would be a good idea and have no idea what martial law is. We are seeing how stupid many democrats are, they are no smarter then the right wingers they mock.


----------



## bass player

I guess progressives don't realize that under martial law, they'll be the first victims. The right will circle the wagons and defend themselves with their stockpiles of legal weapons while the progressives will conveniently herd together in gun-free safe zones.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> I guess progressives don't realize that under martial law, they'll be the first victims. The right will circle the wagons and defend themselves with their stockpiles of legal weapons while the progressives will conveniently herd together in gun-free safe zones.


Haw haw. Right wing crazies would go on a murderous rampage. I'm not so sure the guys with pea shooters are going to do so well when there are tanks in the streets.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Haw haw. Right wing crazies would go on a murderous rampage. I'm not so sure the guys with pea shooters are going to do so well when there are tanks in the streets.


I meant "circle the wagons" as a figure of speech, not "try take on a tank with a .22". The few crazies who try that will be weeded out...no loss.

How will the unarmed progressives do against tanks, or even guns? They will have already saved the military a step by unarming themselves.


----------



## andrewf

My point is that people delude themselves that their guns protect them from the force that even country-bumpkin police departments can bring to bear. It is a false sense of security. Never mind that you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home. Owning a gun is hazardous to your health.

https://academic.oup.com/aje/articl...ns-in-the-Home-and-Risk-of-a-Violent-Death-in


----------



## sags

There is greater likelihood of the Pentagon refusing to carry out orders, if they believed the orders were issued by an unstable President.

Ronald Reagan had Alzheimers disease and there were protocols put into place to prevent any "mistakes" in dubious orders being carried out.

I believe the VP and other top officials were to be consulted before the orders would be enacted.

The US cannot allow a disoriented President to launch WWIII.


----------



## sags

Some may remember when Reagan was shot and General Alexander Haig said..........I am in charge now.

It sent ripples of fear through the US, and shortly after political leaders emerged to calm people down.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> My point is that people delude themselves that their guns protect them from the force that even country-bumpkin police departments can bring to bear. It is a false sense of security. Never mind that you are more likely to die if you have a gun in your home. Owning a gun is hazardous to your health.
> 
> https://academic.oup.com/aje/articl...ns-in-the-Home-and-Risk-of-a-Violent-Death-in


What does that have to do with martial law?


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> Its about time Russia fought back as Sergey Lavrov accuses Germany, UK and France of grossly interfering in US election in favour of Hillary. One could make an argument that Hillary won the popular vote because of these world leaders interfering. Funny how CNN and everyone else just ignores this. I don't see how forum buddies could see this any differently. Maybe trump should punish them when he gets into office.
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/374117-lavrov-west-demonized-trump/




wondering why you are airing this embarassing piece of boilerplate moscow propaganda. The UK, france & germany no more interfered with the US election than did santa claus, tinkerbell or mother goose.

the kremlin - dog surely you are aware that RT dot com is an official kremlin mouthpiece - complains that a german cabinet minister referred to donald trump as a "hate preacher."

so? this happens to be a common view voiced by billions of people the world over, it does nothing to support sergey lavrov's preposterous accusation that european countries sought to undermine the US electoral process.

next, the kremlin complains that a british cabinet minister said the trumpster is "unfit."

so say billions of people the world over.

the RT dot com piece offers zero evidence that any european country tried to interfere with the US election. What RT is trying to do with this feeble article is push the spotlight away from russia's ferocious sabotage of US internet communications, onto other countries. But russia has no case.

me i usually like to read what boris lavrov has to say but the above article & its hollow accusations are one of his more embarassing moments. The kremlin did hack US government e-mails & did orchestrate an internet blitz to manipulate the US election. A grim legacy right now is what additional malicious eavesdropping & what fake newsmongering might still be discovered.



.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

Grossly interfered? Must be a problem with the translation. 
What a sick, old dog.


----------



## new dog

World leaders did say these things so how is this fake news. The media was also blatantly involved in trying to swing the election in Hillary's favour, which should be wrong.

On hacking everyone is doing it and I am sure the Russians are to but they are only focusing on Russia in particular after Hillary lost the election. The left and the Soros funded crowds are going to cause trouble on inauguration day to what level I do not know. They can't take the fact they have lost the election and the clueless left who also don't know what martial law means and really don't have a clue what they are fighting for.

It is very hard to explain things to people who won't look or see the problems right in front of them. I always look first and that is why I also don't like many republicans as well as democrats. I would probably like the NDP in Canada if they could come up with a way to actually pay for the stuff they promised and didn't try to be heroes to both unions and environmentalists. One wants to work and the other wants to shut them down, in the resource sectors of course.


----------



## bass player

In the span of one day, the Democrats and their media bitches went from screaming "How can Trump NOT accept the results of the election?" to immediately refusing to accept the results.

That kind of mind boggling hypocrisy is hard to fathom. And that's what is frightening...the left will probably be able to do almost any kind of horrific action tomorrow and no one on the left will get angry. It will be ignored/downplayed by the media while any footage of a scuffle where a Trump supporter gets the upper hand will be on 24/7 repeat.


----------



## new dog

Well at least we know one thing for sure, no matter what happens it will be Trump and Putin's fault.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> There is greater likelihood of the Pentagon refusing to carry out orders, if they believed the orders were issued by an unstable President.
> 
> Ronald Reagan had Alzheimers disease and there were protocols put into place to prevent any "mistakes" in dubious orders being carried out.
> 
> I believe the VP and other top officials were to be consulted before the orders would be enacted.
> 
> The US cannot allow a disoriented President to launch WWIII.


Too bad Crooked Hillary lost-we could have had a viral video of the POTUS being thrown into a van like a sack of potatoes.


----------



## new dog

Dems can do anything and think it is fine. Here Alex Mahajer is destroyed by Tucker Carlson as he defends his piece in a Anti-Semitic news letter run by Lyndon LaRouche. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3NO9D4eiSI

How can Dems stand fast against racism as if they even know what that is.


----------



## new dog

Nelley the US cannot allow a disoriented President to launch WW3 when they already had Hillary on the payroll to do that. She would do so without being disoriented because she would been a controlled puppet.


----------



## sags

Many Americans are having buyers remorse now that Trump has revealed he isn't going to change as many expected he would.

He currently has a dismal 44% approval rating. He lost the popular vote to an unpopular candidate.

His poll numbers have gone down since he was elected.

Voters in the Rust Belt States are starting to wonder if Trump actually has a plan to create jobs. 

He has filled his administration with billionaires and millionaires and people who want to tear apart the government.

He has no plan to replace Obamacare despite yakking about it for more than a year.

People are starting to think they may have been hoodwinked and made a big mistake.

And I don't think Trump handles rejection well.


----------



## bass player

sags...there is no point trying to correct all the falsehoods in your comment. The 5 stages of grief are: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. You're still in stage 1...until you move along to acceptance, you'll be immune to reason


----------



## Eder

Looks to me that his promise of lower business taxes are already creating a renaissance in the American car industry. He may be a schmuck but I'm happy for American workers.


----------



## SMK

sags said:


> Many Americans are having buyers remorse now that Trump has revealed he isn't going to change as many expected he would.
> 
> People are starting to think they may have been hoodwinked and made a big mistake.


:biggrin: You and your stats.

Many Canadians are having buyers remorse, a year after Trudeau revealed he isn't going to change as many expected he would. :biggrin:


----------



## bass player

More fake news:

CNN: Nancy Sinatra is not happy that Trump will use her father's song at inauguration.

Nancy Sinatra: That's not true. I never said that. Why do you lie CNN?


----------



## sags

Eder said:


> Looks to me that his promise of lower business taxes are already creating a renaissance in the American car industry. He may be a schmuck but I'm happy for American workers.


2000 GM workers are permanently laid off today in Lordstown, Ohio.

People in Ohio are wondering why Trump didn't save their jobs.

BMW told Trump they are building a plant in Mexico. They say they have 8800 workers in South Carolina, build more cars than they sell in the US and are the US main auto exporter to other countries.

Maybe Trump's method will work...........or maybe not.

For sure, it is much more complicated than a few tweets or phone calls will solve.


----------



## new dog

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...p-spin-on-story-about-her-humorous-tweet.html

Your right bass, I guess CNN thought it was a slam dunk and had their pants pulled down. I wonder how the forum buddies can spin their way out of this one.


----------



## sags

Personally, I don't worry much about economics and trade under Trump.

Those things are survivable. Canada will survive regardless.

I worry about Trump having total control over a nuclear missile launch.

If the US had some safeguards in place, it would relieve some apprehension. But the fact is that they don't.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...p-spin-on-story-about-her-humorous-tweet.html
> 
> Your right bass, I guess CNN thought it was a slam dunk and had their pants pulled down. I wonder how the forum buddies can spin their way out of this one.


They won't try to explain it...they'll just ignore it and in a couple days it will be as if it never existed.

As you may have noticed...sags is complaining about GM workers leaving, but conveniently ignores the 3 or 4 other auto makers who have promised to build plants in Michigan. 3 or 4 plants move in and 1 leaves...that's a minus when you use progressive mathematics


----------



## SMK

Clinton Global Initiative can't survive without the Clintons in power, boy that didn't take long, or is it fake news? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/16/clinton-global-initiative-lays-off-22-as-donations/


----------



## new dog

I think your right again bass.

Sags I think whoever takes over president today the world would not be a safe place. Obama and Bush before him has made everything a huge mess and almost every leader republican and democrat were pushing for war in Syria and war with Russia. Trump may go for war somewhere else but at least we still have hope.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> Clinton Global Initiative can't survive without the Clintons in power, boy that didn't take long, or is it fake news? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/16/clinton-global-initiative-lays-off-22-as-donations/


One of the partners of fake news is conveniently ignoring stories that make favoured people look bad. CGI shuts down and the deafening silence from the media is not surprising.


----------



## SMK

Then there is the Trudeau Foundation. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...once-justin-took-over-liberals-analysis-shows


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> One of the partners of fake news is conveniently ignoring stories that make favoured people look bad. CGI shuts down and the deafening silence from the media is not surprising.


Pretty hard to run a favor/corruption shop when you no longer have anything to sell. I wonder what Crooked Hillary could get for a speech now. Not much.


----------



## olivaw

sags said:


> Personally, I don't worry much about economics and trade under Trump.
> 
> Those things are survivable. Canada will survive regardless.
> 
> I worry about Trump having total control over a nuclear missile launch.
> 
> If the US had some safeguards in place, it would relieve some apprehension. But the fact is that they don't.


There are women, Hispanics. Muslims, Asians and blacks that worry about more than the nuclear codes.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> There are women, Hispanics. Muslims, Asians and blacks that worry about more than the nuclear codes.


That was bound to happen when for the last 8 years race baiter Obama went out of his way to divide the races like has never been done before. The media was more than willing to promote his racial lies and divisiveness.

Obama decimated the Democrats. Trump decimated the MSM.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> That was bound to happen when for the last 8 years race baiter Obama went out of his way to divide the races like has never been done before. The media was more than willing to promote his racial lies and divisiveness.
> 
> Obama decimated the Democrats. Trump decimated the MSM.


It's Obama's fault that Trump is reviled by the majority?


----------



## new dog

The people have been fed so much propaganda by the mainstream media and the left that they no longer know the truth about anything. If they did know the truth they would realize that Obama and Hillary would do nothing for minorities and just make things worse. The only thing they could do well is say a bunch of BS as they have done for years and hope the people keep buying it.

In fact the people are so faked out that they would gladly import huge racists, gay haters and women haters while worrying about white supremacists who really aren't multiplying like they have been told.


----------



## olivaw

^ Is it a subtle CNN scheme to promote racism, homophobia and misogyny? :disturbed:


----------



## mordko

Isn't it funny how the left can't stand any opposing views.

They have attacked and eventually managed to remove a Wikipedia webpage for a right-wing satirical website:

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/01/18/the-peoples-cube-purged-from-wikipedia/


----------



## sags

The Nancy Sinatra saga is an example of fake news.

When she learned that President and Mrs. Trump would dance to her father's My Way song, Sinatra tweeted about the first lines in the lyrics which are......"the end is near".

After the tweet was reported on CNN, there was a backlash and Sinatra deleted the tweet and then blasted CNN for a false story.

The story wasn't false and when challenged about it, Sinatra admitted the "deleted" tweet and said it was a joke.

The CNN report was accurate. It was Sinatra who published and then deleted the tweet, and then accused CNN of lying.

The anti-CNN crowd had already jumped on CNN by the time the real story became public.


----------



## bass player

mordko said:


> Isn't it funny how the left can't stand any opposing views.
> 
> They have attacked and eventually managed to remove a Wikipedia webpage for a right-wing satirical website:
> 
> https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/01/18/the-peoples-cube-purged-from-wikipedia/


Wikipedia also selectively edits information on climate change:

http://climatechangedispatch.com/wikipedia-and-the-climate-non-debate/

Wikipedia, Fakebook, and Twitter have all been busted making editing or deleting non-left wing viewpoints that they don't agree with. Free speech is not welcome to the intolerant left and those with opposing viewpoints will be silenced.


----------



## new dog

Here is some very stupid white leaders shouting no racist police at black police officers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlrlmKW6Rg

The level of left stupidity is incredible.


----------



## bass player

olivaw was caught on camera at the inauguration 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0rFLxma_w4


----------



## mordko

It would appear that CNN spread fake news by publishing a photo of an empty mall which was taken too early, before the crowds gathered. https://www.facebook.com/justtrumpt...684099504674/1348553048551108/?type=3&theater


----------



## none

Low angle makes it difficult and yes, lots of people were there but not many compared to previous years:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...d-size-inauguration-mall-washington/96832714/


----------



## bass player

none said:


> Low angle makes it difficult and yes, lots of people were there but not many compared to previous years:
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...d-size-inauguration-mall-washington/96832714/


I don't think that a smaller crowd means anything. The reality is that the right just doesn't bother with large gatherings most of the time. Protests and gatherings have always been what the left does....Occupy, Idle Some More, protesting elections results, pipelines, oil sands, gas, the climate, etc. There is nothing that the left won't gather to protest against, except maybe a march to suggest that hard work can solve some problems


----------



## andrewf

Tea Party protests were never a thing, right?

What about Cliven Bundy's ranch, or the Oregon protestors that occupied government buildings?


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Tea Party protests were never a thing, right?
> 
> What about Cliven Bundy's ranch, or the Oregon protestors that occupied government buildings?


Of course there are some right sided protests...I never stated otherwise. What I stated was that the right doesn't protest "most of the time".

Either you missed that part of my comment, or you just cherry picked...


----------



## bass player

I notice that there are no protesters burning cars and smashing windows at today's inauguration protest...there was also no burning of cars and looting of businesses after each of Obama's elections.

That's just one more difference between the right and the left...the right understands the difference between protesting and vandalism/looting and is able to accept a democratic result and get on with their lives.


----------



## mordko

Yes, smashing Starbucks windows has to be the most appropriate way to protest. That will show them.


----------



## mordko

...as opposed to putting up a few posters protesting a gathering by an organization with terrorist ties. Now, THAT can't be allowed. Five years in prison isn't long enough of a punishment. 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2...hreatened-5-years-jail-anti-daniel-greenfield


----------



## bass player

mordko said:


> Yes, smashing Starbucks windows has to be the most appropriate way to protest. That will show them.


Nothing says "I value democracy" more than vandalizing and looting after the result of fair and democratic election... 

The irony of that is the fact that Starbucks donated to and backed Hillary. So, it's fitting that those who have no clue will attack the very same people or businesses that supported the same candidate as they did. Bravo, you clueless morons!!


----------



## olivaw

Those who refer to "the right" or "the left" are usually the individuals who least understand them. There is no unified right, there is no unified left. There are individuals with a variety of opinions.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Those who refer to "the right" or "the left" are usually the individuals who least understand them. There is no unified right, there is no unified left. There are individuals with a variety of opinions.


Lol. You got hit with too many inconvenient facts and are unable to provide a coherent response so you try to muddy the waters.

We all see through your obvious deflection


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Of course there are some right sided protests...I never stated otherwise. What I stated was that the right doesn't protest "most of the time".
> 
> Either you missed that part of my comment, or you just cherry picked...



sorry can't find "most of the time." All i can find since 2 days back are posts with bass drooling & slavering in anticipation of the black bloc anarchist violence he so obviously longs to reverse-admire.

the black bloc protesters yesterday had nothing to do with US democrats or republicans. They would have shown up, stormed gateways into the Mall & smashed windows if hillary clinton or humpty dumpty had been elected.

.


----------



## bass player

This is hilarious. Whiny leftists are blocking people from lawfully going to an event but someone pulls a few of the law breakers aside and has a great response when told he's on camera:

"I don't give a f*ck. My name's Dave"  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfRYj2ZX3dE


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Of course there are some right sided protests...I never stated otherwise. What I stated was that the right doesn't protest "most of the time".
> 
> Either you missed that part of my comment, or you just cherry picked...


You have no evidence. What about the people who camp outside family planning clinics across the US?


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> sorry can't find "most of the time."


Lol. The words are in plain sight. Perhaps you need to remove your liberal glasses in order to see everything that's there. Everyone knows that liberal glasses have a tendency to block out inconvenient facts


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> You have no evidence. What about the people who camp outside family planning clinics across the US?


What about them? If you want to get into a contest listing left and right wing protest groups, I'll beat you like a rented mule.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Lol. The words are in plain sight. Perhaps you need to remove your liberal glasses in order to see everything that's there. Everyone knows that liberal glasses have a tendency to block out inconvenient facts


The point is that no broad segment of the population protests most of the time. You claimed that the left spends most of its time protesting. It's a small minority. You can try to make a broader argument about the left based on these protestors, but only as long as you're willing to be tarred with the same brush as the Westboro Baptist Church. Deal?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Lol. You got hit with too many inconvenient facts and are unable to provide a coherent response so you try to muddy the waters.


You provided facts? Great.  I was worried that we had reduced you to wailing "fake news" and whining about "the left". Boy, that got tedious, eh?


----------



## none

Relevant yet again.


----------



## olivaw

none said:


> Relevant yet again.


Many of us are older white males who are preoccupied by money. We know we're a-holes.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> olivaw was caught on camera at the inauguration
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0rFLxma_w4


LOL, I missed this earlier. It wasn't me. 

But it could have been.


----------



## new dog

mordko said:


> ...as opposed to putting up a few posters protesting a gathering by an organization with terrorist ties. Now, THAT can't be allowed. Five years in prison isn't long enough of a punishment.
> 
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2...hreatened-5-years-jail-anti-daniel-greenfield



I suppose it is better just to break windows at Starbucks. It just takes a few minutes to break windows but horror of horrors that poster could be up for two days.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> I suppose it is better just to break windows at Starbucks. It just takes a few minutes to break windows but horror of horrors that poster could be up for two days.


Well, you can't let the people be exposed to alternative viewpoints!! What if one or two of them accidentally start thinking for themselves?


----------



## new dog

Sometimes the left seems like an early version of the Borg. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)

I am not sure if everyone knows the Borg from Star Trek so I left the link.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Well, you can't let the people be exposed to alternative viewpoints!! What if one or two of them accidentally start thinking for themselves?


If they think for themselves, they won't believe trash sites like frontpagemag, zerohedge and infowars.


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> If they think for themselves, they won't believe trash sites like frontpagemag, zerohedge and infowars.


Peculiar list. FrontPage Magazine is a conservative website run by David Horowitz. The other two are Antisemitic fake sites. Takes a certain type of person to link them. 

Of course, the information provided by the FrontPage Magazine is demonstrably true, even if a scumbag or two may find accurate information a bit upsetting. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zDBYgjbBGtk


----------



## olivaw

David Horowitz' Frontpage Magazine was identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a major financier of radical anti-Muslim extremism.


----------



## new dog

I don't know much about either the Frontpage Magazine or the Southern Poverty Law Centre. However at first glance the Southern Poverty Centre looks like it is an anti-Trump organization like the media is but maybe even worse. I am sure BLM is not one of their targets when they are out hunting racism. I am also sure any hate coming from Muslims is also out of their radar, while at the same time they want to separate church from the state.


----------



## wraphter

olivaw said:


> David Horowitz' Frontpage Magazine was identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a major financier of radical anti-Muslim extremism.


Otoh,O virtuous one , it's the left that aids and abets Muslim extremism starting with the previous occupant of the Oval Office. Salman Rushdie commented on this phenomenon.He called them fellow travelers. Obama's policies unwittingly helped create ISIS. 
Gloria Steinem ,a leader at the recent demonstration, clearly said yesterday that if Muslims are made to register, everyone on her side should register. 
She is trying to undercut governmental restrictions on Muslims .


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> David Horowitz' Frontpage Magazine was identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a major financier of radical anti-Muslim extremism.


Southern Poverty Law Center identified Maajid Nawaz (!) of the anti-extremist Quilliam foundation and Ayan Hirsi Ali as anti-Muslim extremists. http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...ajid-nawaz-splc-anti-muslim-extremist/505685/

There was a time when it was a reputable anti racist organization, but today it has zero credibility.


----------



## bass player

If Russia really hacked the election, how come CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, or anyone else has not been able to find one single former Hillary voter who will state that they changed their vote to Trump because of actions by Russia? We all know that if such a person really existed, their claim would be running in a 24/7 endless loop by the MSM.

Fake news!


----------



## olivaw

Southern Poverty Law Centre, located in Montgomery Alabama, is a not-for-profit advocacy group that promotes tolerance. One way it does this is to monitor hate groups and other extremists throughout the United States and expose their activities to the public, the media and law enforcement. 



> The SPLC is the premier U.S. non-profit organization monitoring the activities of domestic hate groups and other extremists – including the Ku Klux Klan, the neo-Nazi movement, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, black separatists, antigovernment militias, Christian Identity adherents and others.
> 
> We’re currently tracking more than 1,600 extremist groups operating across the country. We publish investigative reports, train law enforcement officers and share key intelligence, and offer expert analysis to the media and public.


SPLC is loathed by racists and bigot. Everyone else considers it credible.


----------



## andrewf

SPLC has a serious credibility problem, given that they label Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali as anti-Muslim extremists.


----------



## mordko

These days SPLC has a problem with anyone who isn't fond of Islamic terrorists and takes action to fight radical Islam. That includes Muslims who are opposed to terrorism. Claiming that only racists are opposed to Islamic terrorism is risible.


----------



## bass player

The media has conveniently failed to report that one of the organizers of the Women's March is a Muslim who is upset that 22 states have bills that will ban sharia law. The irony of women marching for women's rights in a march organized by a supporter of sharia law is mind boggling and proof of how brainwashed and/or uninformed that some people really are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw9JhxnQv8g

"fake news" by omission.


----------



## wraphter

> including the Ku Klux Klan, the neo-Nazi movement, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, black separatists, antigovernment militias, Christian Identity adherents and others.


Strangely there is no mention of Muslim terrorists even though we know that they have committed more murders since 9/11 than non-Muslims
in the US. 

This is according to the New America Foundation

https://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/terrorism-in-america/what-threat-united-states-today/



Muslim terrorists have killed 94 since 9/11 and non-Muslim terrorists 55,despite having a much larger population.

Of course one poster got it the other way around, iirc.


----------



## Eder

Eder said:


> Looks to me that his promise of lower business taxes are already creating a renaissance in the American car industry. He may be a schmuck but I'm happy for American workers.


boink

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/foxconn-...isplay-plant-u-exceed-120029682--finance.html


----------



## cashinstinct

Fake news?
No, now they say "alternative facts"... much better.


----------



## olivaw

It's no coincidence that posters who try to discredit SPLC are the very posters who participate so eagerly in the CMF Muslim bashing threads.


----------



## andrewf

On another note, the violent protests on Friday seem to have been the work of Anarchists/black bloc. It's not really accurate to lump these guys into the same group as other left-wingers (ie Hillary supporters or SJWs).


----------



## andrewf

olivaw said:


> It's no coincidence that posters who try to discredit SPLC are the very posters who participate so eagerly in the CMF Muslim bashing threads.


Well, given that we are criticizing SPLC for opposing critics of Muslim extremism, you're damned right it's no coincidence. SPLC is on the side of the folks who murder thousands of fellow muslims.


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> boink
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/foxconn-...isplay-plant-u-exceed-120029682--finance.html


This has nothing to do with Trump, and everything to do with the economics of shipping displays across the Pacific. The job number included in this story is fanciful. Such an operation in the US will be very job-light. It is just final assembly of bulky consumer electronics, which is a low value-added activity. To illustrate the point, only 2% of the value-add of an iPhone takes place in China.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...thing-out-of-apples-ipads-and-i/#4669de9d55b1

The problem with Russian Puppet's promise to bring back manufacturing jobs is that those jobs didn't go overseas, they were vapourized by information technology. IT made it possible to create extended supply chains and to separate the low value add portions of manufacturing to third party firms and overseas. Those jobs are not coming back. There's nothing Russian Puppet can do to bring them back.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> On another note, the violent protests on Friday seem to have been the work of Anarchists/black bloc. It's not really accurate to lump these guys into the same group as other left-wingers (ie Hillary supporters or SJWs).


Perhaps not, but they use every protest as an opportunity to vandalize and riot and no one stops them or reports them, and the media ignores or downplays their actions. At some point it becomes acceptance due to their inaction and lack of fair coverage by the media.

If you recall, rioters at Trump rallies received heavy media coverage until they found out that they were paid by an arm of the Democrat party. Then the coverage ceased immediately.


----------



## new dog

If my windows were smashed and no one cared to much I would be extremely upset. The left have to own up to these things and show they don't support it in any way.


----------



## wraphter

> CMF Muslim bashing threads


Not to be confused with the lefty social justice warrior ,fellow traveler enablers of radical Islam.


----------



## none

here we go again


----------



## new dog

That is funny clip none.

Now I need someone to explain to me how Trump's inauguration numbers seem so out of whack with Obama's from 2009. Trump is stupid for going off on this unless somehow it is explainable. One possible explanation I heard is people were stopped by protesters so the numbers were stuck on the outside looking in.


----------



## Eder

andrewf said:


> This has nothing to do with Trump, and everything to do with the economics of shipping displays across the Pacific. The job number included in this story is fanciful. Those jobs are not coming back.


My mistake...I thought Foxconn was building a 7 billion plant in the USA as per several articles. I guess no one would work at a 7 billion dollar plant so no jobs. And they won't build it due to lower corporate tax promises,but because Foxconn wants to be in the USA and pay 35% corporate tax. I see how I was misled now.

Screw Trump...no damn jobs will come back and if they do it won't be due to any of his initiatives.


----------



## sags

A guy selling t-shirts in the Washington area was interviewed.

He had a car load of Trump "Make America Great Again" shirts that he couldn't sell for $5 each.

He also had a load of Women's March shirts that were selling like hotcakes for $25 each.

Trump's support is veneer thin. People don't like him. They just hope he is right and can bring the jobs back.

It is a sign of the times. Offshoring took jobs.........and automation will take some more.

As the world changes, people wonder what will happen to them.

The wealthy have managed to obtain their goals. They control everything from assets to politicians.

They didn't plan for what happens when the jobs are gone, because they simply don't care.

Think Trump will deliver ? Look to his cabinet nominations for guidance.

Wilbur Woods.........billionaire investor.

Steve Mnuchin.......banker who illegally foreclosed mortgages on people to make tens of millions in profits.

Betsy DeVos.........wife of heir to the Amway fortune. She owns a company that collects on student debt and wants to privatize schools.

Rex Tillerson.........wealthy oil magnate who wants to reduce environmental protections and open up oil exploration.

Rick Perry...........wants to eliminate the Department of Energy.

Ben Carson..........wants to dismantle HUD.

Mitch McConnell's wife.......and a host of other government appointments for Trump's wealthy new friends.

Have Trump and his wealthy friends turned over a new leaf ? Do they suddenly all want to help the common American ?

Or are they not yet content owning most of America's wealth. They want it all.

Trump's refusal to make his tax returns public, put his businesses in a blind trust, or identify which foreign countries to whom he owes money.....may be clues of what is to come.


----------



## olivaw

andrewf said:


> Well, given that we are criticizing SPLC for opposing critics of Muslim extremism, you're damned right it's no coincidence. SPLC is on the side of the folks who murder thousands of fellow muslims.


I checked their website. There is no expression solidarity with Muslim extremists. Perhaps it's easier for you to surmise their motive than consider their message. 

SPLC's list of US based hate groups is widely respected. It includes neo-nazis, holocaust deniers, ant-Semitic groups, anti-LGBT groups, anti-white groups and many many more. 

My original point: Horowitz' Front Page Mag, and sister site Jihad Watch, are not credible. Horowitz alleges that every Muslim association is a front for the Muslim Brotherhod. He routinely strives to deny American Muslims their constitutional rights while hiding behind the first amendment to protect his own right to hate speech. Their place in the "fake news" thread is deserved.


----------



## olivaw

Eder said:


> Screw Trump...no damn jobs will come back and if they do it won't be due to any of his initiatives.


if the initiatives are to introduce protectionism or start trade wars then it will be Trump who screws us.


----------



## wraphter

Here is an interview with Salman Rushdie in Frontpagmag.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=1562

Rushdie was subjected to a fatwa from the ayatollah in Iran because he mocked Islam and Mohammed
in his novel The Satanic Verses. He was ordered to be killed by an Islamic religious leader .

Rushdie advocates freedom to criticize religion,in particular Islam. There have been restrictions on freedom of speech in Europe in respect of criticism of Islam.

Rushdie makes the point that authorities in England seek to limit freedom of speech to appease the Islamists.

Is it any surprise that we see Frontpagmag subjected to attempts at politically correct censorship by the same forces of leftist repression?

Back in the USSR indeed.


----------



## bass player

Protectionism? You mean...taking care of your own country first? How awful.

Globalization and open borders are not the best thing since sliced bread, as evidence has clearly shown. In fact, they can destroy a country. But those petty little problems are always overlooked or ignored by people with grand ideas. The truth is that liberalism will always destroy a country if left unchecked.


----------



## Nelley

wraphter said:


> Here is an interview with Salman Rushdie in Frontpagmag.
> 
> http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=1562
> 
> Rushdie was subjected to a fatwa from the ayatollah in Iran because he mocked Islam and Mohammed
> in his novel The Satanic Verses. He was ordered to be killed by an Islamic religious leader .
> 
> Rushdie advocates freedom to criticize religion,in particular Islam. There have been restrictions on freedom of speech in Europe in respect of criticism of Islam.
> 
> Rushdie makes the point that authorities in England seek to limit freedom of speech to appease the Islamists.
> 
> Is it any surprise that we see Frontpagmag subjected to attempts at politically correct censorship by the same forces of leftist repression?
> 
> Back in the USSR indeed.


Radical Islam was imported to destabilize and weaken Western countries-and the program is working very well so far.


----------



## mordko

"SPLC is widely respected". 

Sure. By designated terrorist organizations, like Hamas and Hezbollah. http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...ps-in-blasting-haters-mostly-jews/2012/08/16/

Not so much by anti-terrorist Muslim organizations, atheists or Jews which SPLC routinely designates as "haters": http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sts-civil-rights-advocacy-group-a7392771.html


----------



## mordko

"Front Page Mag claims that every Muslim organization is a front for the Muslim Brotherhood".

That is, of course, libel and an easily refutable lie. As per usual. 

In reality Front Page Mag and the Freedom Center of David Horowitz actively cooperate with and promote moderate, anti-Jihadi Muslim organizations, such as Zuhdi Jasser's American Islamic Forum for Democracy. 

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=13188
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/92779/zuhdi-jasser-vs-robert-spencer-islamic-reform-frontpagemagcom


----------



## olivaw

mordko said:


> "Front Page Mag claims that every Muslim organization is a front for the Muslim Brotherhood".
> 
> That is, of course, libel and an easily refutable lie. As per usual.


From the horse's mouth to mordko's eager ear.

Frontpage: MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD ORGS GATHER ON CAPITOL HILL


> The US Council of Muslim Organizations said that its 2nd Annual National Muslim Advocacy Day on Capitol Hill Monday was “designed to connect national, regional and state Muslim organizations, community members with their elected representatives in Congress.” However, the ties that some of the foremost organizations making up this coalition have to the Muslim Brotherhood reveal the sinister aspect of this agenda – and underscore the necessity of passing S. 2230, the Muslim Brotherhood Terrorist Designation Act.


Speaking of libel, here's another pile of manure dropped by the very same horse. 

THE ANTI-SEMITE WHO ORGANIZED THE 'WOMEN'S MARCH ON WASHINGTON' And the half-million lemmings who showed up in “solidarity.”


----------



## olivaw

wraphter said:


> Is it any surprise that we see Frontpagmag subjected to attempts at politically correct censorship by the same forces of leftist repression?
> 
> Back in the USSR indeed.


Huh? We're talking about fake news and trash sites. I have not noticed anybody advocating censorship here. I do hope you understand the difference between disagreement and "politically correct censorship". 

It is right wing politicians, including Trump, *who are at war with the press*. Fortunately it's a war of words at this time but folks worry when a populist leader declares war on the free press.

Compare Trump's words to Thomas Jefferson's. 


> As you know, I have a running war with the media. They are among the most dishonest human beings on Earth. - Donald J. Trump





> "No experiment can be more interesting than that we are now trying, and which we trust will end in establishing the fact, that man may be governed by reason and truth. Our first object should therefore be, to leave open to him all the avenues to truth. The most effectual hitherto found, is the freedom of the press. It is, therefore, the first shut up by those who fear the investigation of their actions." --Thomas Jefferson to John Tyler, 1804. ME 11:33


----------



## Nelley

Bill Still explains the muslim loyalty of CIA head Brennan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOotZv8nVi8


----------



## mordko

Olivo, thank you for providing interesting links from Front Page Mag. 

Isn't it great that the organizer of the march, which was supposedly in support of women's rights, got outed as an antisemite and a supporter of murderous women-hating organizations as well as masochistic sharia laws? 

Here Huff Post makes the same point about Linda Samsour:

http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/fiammetta-venner/marche-femmes-trump-hijab/

Not only do they reference links to Hamas, they quote interesting Tweets by Linda, which accuse CIA of terrorism and America of "executing Muslim children".

Now... Is Huff Post a fake news site, just like zerohedge and infowars?


----------



## mordko

Regardless of the above, the claim was that Horowitz calls ALL Muslim organizations MB fronts. It's a demonstrably false, libellous claim. Horowitz collaborates with the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, to give one example.


----------



## mordko

Also noteworthy that Linda Sarsour, the organizer of the March, also supports the oppressive Saudi regime. What can be more pro women than a terrorist friendly admirer of Saudi Arabia who believes that the USA deliberately murders Muslim kids?

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/0...d-every-negative-stereotype-about-women-ever/


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> It is right wing politicians, including Trump, *who are at war with the press*. Fortunately it's a war of words at this time but folks worry when a populist leader declares war on the free press..


The truth is that the press has been at war with the Republicans for decades. Trump simply decided to fight back...but only against those who have lied and spread fake news. He even praised leftist NY Times for an accurate story. The MSM has never has someone fight back and they don't like it. Even worse, internet and the rise of alternative news sources has eroded and continues to erode their audience.

The more the MSM continues with fake news and inaccurate reporting, the further their credibility falls, and the smaller their audience get. One day, they may actually unearth a real scandal but no one will take them seriously.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Perhaps not, but they use every protest as an opportunity to vandalize and riot and no one stops them or reports them, and the media ignores or downplays their actions. At some point it becomes acceptance due to their inaction and lack of fair coverage by the media.
> 
> If you recall, rioters at Trump rallies received heavy media coverage until they found out that they were paid by an arm of the Democrat party. Then the coverage ceased immediately.


If you'll recall, the rioters were Trump supporters goaded into throwing punches by the Hillary campaign plants. If you look at the leak, the Hillary campaign was just goading people into assaulting their plants, not assaulting Trump supporters.


----------



## bass player

mordko said:


> Also noteworthy that Linda Sarsour, the organizer of the March, also supports the oppressive Saudi regime. What can be more pro women than a terrorist friendly admirer of Saudi Arabia who believes that the USA deliberately murders Muslim kids?
> 
> https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/0...d-every-negative-stereotype-about-women-ever/


Also, I pointed out yesterday, she is upset that some states have initiated bill to ban Sharia law:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw9JhxnQv8g


----------



## wraphter

olivaw said:


> I have not noticed anybody advocating censorship here.


You are attempting to censor this website by interfering with freedom of speech.You support SPLC which attempts to censor Frontpagemag.
You are taking Linda Sarsour's side. 



olivaw said:


> Speaking of libel, here's another pile of manure dropped by the very same horse.


Emotive ,hostile language like this are attempt is an attempt at thought control. Frontpagemag is declared persona non grata.

This article you refer to as horse manure is nothing of the kind.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265...rganized-womens-march-washington-john-perazzo

Linda Sarsour was on the stage as one of the organizers of the Washington march.The article goes into great depth as to who she really
is.



> A leading organizer of the Women's March was the Palestinian-American activist Linda Sarsour, executive director of the Arab American Association of New York. This group was founded shortly after 9/11—not to condemn the attacks, of course, but rather, to lament “the heightened sense of fear and the acts of blatant discrimination aimed at [the Muslim] community” in the racist wasteland known as America.
> 
> .........
> 
> On the premise that all government efforts to forestall additional terrorism constituted Nazi-like fascism, Sarsour and her organization played a central role in pressuring the New York Police Department to terminate its secret surveillance of the many Muslim groups and mosques suspected of promoting jihadism.
> 
> .....
> 
> An outspoken critic of Israel, Sarsour avvidly supports the Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions (BDS) movement, a Hamas-inspired initiative that uses various forms of public protest, economic pressure, and lawsuits to advance the Hamas agenda of permanently destroying Israel as a Jewish nation-state.
> 
> .............
> 
> In 2004, Sarsour acknowledged that a friend of hers as well as a cousin were both serving long sentences in Israeli jails because of their efforts to recruit jihadists to murder Jews. Moreover, she revealed that her brother-in-law was serving a 12-year prison term because of his affiliation with Hamas.
> 
> Speaking of creepy realtives, Sarsour’s husband, Maher Judeh, mourned the 1998 death of the Hamas “master terrorists” Adel and Imad Awadallah; he praised the heroism of a Palestinian Authority police officer who had carried out a shooting attack at a checkpoint in Israel; he has expressed support for the terrorist organization Fatah; and he has lauded the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a Marxist-Leninist revolutionary organization.
> 
> In October 2011, Linda Sarsour, who holds free-market economics in low regard, expressed, on behalf of “Muslim New Yorkers,” “solidarity and support” for the pro-communist Occupy Wall Street movement. In 2011 as well, the Obama Administration honored Sarsour as a “champion of change.” Not surprisingly, Sarsour visited the White House on at least seven different occasions during her beloved president's tenure.


These are facts that people should know about Linda Sarsour. Where is this article libel as you said?

Calling an article libel means the author should be punished by law. Where did this article publish things that are libel?
You are attempting to limit freedom of speech .


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> My mistake...I thought Foxconn was building a 7 billion plant in the USA as per several articles. I guess no one would work at a 7 billion dollar plant so no jobs. And they won't build it due to lower corporate tax promises,but because Foxconn wants to be in the USA and pay 35% corporate tax. I see how I was misled now.
> 
> Screw Trump...no damn jobs will come back and if they do it won't be due to any of his initiatives.


I meant manufacturing jobs more broadly. You snipped my argument from your quote because it was too hard to address, and instead put up a strawman.

Foxconn is not building the plant for corporate tax reasons. They are *considering* building it because TVs are big, low-margin products that cost a lot to ship across the Pacific. They are cheaper to snap together close to consumers, using part & engineering know-how imported from Asia. The only way the economics of such a plant will work is if it is highly automated. If you do some research, you will learn that Foxconn is working very hard at eliminating as much human labour as possible at its plants in China. The same will apply 10x to any additional production in the US.


----------



## Eder

So the construction and maintenance is also automated with no land or income taxes paid? No employees? Seriously...this is how economy's grow. I guess the fact anything good happens in the next 4 years will be scrutinized & discounted. Plain silly.


----------



## mordko

> You are attempting to censor this website by interfering with freedom of speech.You support SPLC which attempts to censor Frontpagemag.


Olivaw is not "censoring". He is just lying and distorting and claiming that anyone opposed to radical islam is a racist. In particular he is libelling David Horowitz by knowingly spreading false information: "Horowitz alleges that every Muslim association is a front for the Muslim Brotherhood."

That happens to be demonstrably false; Horowitz and his Front Page Mag work closely together with the anti-jihadist Muslim organizations, such as American Islamic Forum for Democracy: https://aifdemocracy.org/06072014-i...leases-report-attacking-jews-defending-hamas/


----------



## olivaw

mordko said:


> Olivaw is not "censoring". He is just lying and distorting and claiming that anyone opposed to radical islam is a racist. In particular he is libelling David Horowitz by knowingly spreading false information: "Horowitz alleges that every Muslim association is a front for the Muslim Brotherhood."
> 
> That happens to be demonstrably false; Horowitz and his Front Page Mag work closely together with the anti-jihadist Muslim organizations, such as American Islamic Forum for Democracy: https://aifdemocracy.org/06072014-i...leases-report-attacking-jews-defending-hamas/


Poor mordko is focused on the use of the word "every". Had I said "almost every" or "most", or "99.995%" mordko might have chosen a more worthy line of argument. As it stands, this is the best he has to offer. 

The *link to Frontpage* demonstrates that FrontPageMag labels "almost every" Muslim organization a front for the Muslim Brotherhood and the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. ("Almost" has, of course, been added so that we aren't distracted by unnecessary parsing). The link clearly illustrates that FPM is engaged in a dishonest attempt to paint organizations and individuals as terrorist. It paints with a brush so broad that few can avoid being splattered with the red paint. 

From the site: "_However, the ties that some of the foremost organizations making up this coalition have to the Muslim Brotherhood reveal the sinister aspect of this agenda – and underscore the necessity of passing S. 2230, the Muslim Brotherhood Terrorist Designation Act_". The author is, of course, trying to tie every - or almost every - organization to a group that he want's designated a terrorist organization. That would lead to them being censored and banned. Moreover, participants would be jailed for expressing opinions. 

Similarly, the site recently posted a trash article which tried to link the Women's March on Washington to antisemitism and terrorism. 

Frontpage Mag is hardly credible. It's tries to libel individuals and groups as terrorists, hoping that their members will be silenced and jailed. Did somebody mention the USSR?

(Interesting note of forum history. Mordko has stated that I claim that everyone opposed to radical islam is a racist. That's not true because "everyone" would include Prime Minister Trudeau, Barack Obama, Me and my close Muslim friend. Mordko's confusion may arise from the fact that other posters said that he was a "racist". His defence was to argue that Islam is not a race. I helpfully explained to him that it is appropriate in a non professional forum to try to read the message as intended by the author. The word "racist" is often used in place of the word "bigot". At that point he dove down Godwin's rabbit hole so I was unsure if he had grasped the point. Apparently he hadn't  ).


----------



## mordko

^ 100% BS.



> "It's tries to libel individuals and groups as terrorists so that they will be silenced and jailed. "


Please provide specific examples where innocent individuals were "libelled as terrorists so they will be..."

So far you pointed to a strictly factual article which identified Linda Sarsour's links to islamist organizations and support for Sharia. Factual information, supported by a recent photograph, is not libel. HuffPo published exactly the same claims about Sarsour. 

Ability to expose hypocrisy of an organizer of a feminist march who just happens to support Sharia and Saudi Arabia and has links to Hamas, is not exactly "silencing like they did it in the USSR". 

"Silencing like in the USSR" is the exact opposite of what Horowitz is doing. In fact, silencing is what is done in Saudi Arabia and according to Sharia. Free speech does not mean that propaganda of sharia and islamism is protected from criticism and exposure.

Last but not least... Claiming that an organization, which is focused on exposing islamists believes that 99% of Muslim organizations are islamist = baseless + dumb. It's like claiming that Cardiac Health foundation believes that everyone has heart disease based on the examples quoted on their website.


----------



## mordko

> The link to Frontpage demonstrates that FrontPageMag labels "almost every" Muslim organization a front for the Muslim Brotherhood and the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization.


OK, we have another link to an FPM article. So? 

See, it's not enough to provide a reference where FPM exposes individuals of Muslim background. To support your claim, you have to demonstrate that the information provided by FPM is false. That would be rather difficult as FPM provides references for all it's claims. Like this:



> The Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), which openly states its goal of establishing a global caliphate and was listed in a May 1991 internal Muslim Brotherhood document that was later discovered by law enforcement officials.
> 
> http://www.investigativeproject.org/2373/hand-book-shows-icna-true-goals
> http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6386
> http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf


So, what you are REALLY saying is that regardless of whether FPM's information is accurate, they are not permitted to expose Muslim Organizations. Now... That would be like in the USSR, where they protected certain ideologies from scrutiny and criticism.


----------



## olivaw

mordko said:


> OK, we have another link to an FPM article. So?


You're thrashing. You said that it was a lie that FPM claimed that all (or almost all) American Muslim organizations are a front for the Muslim Brotherhood. I gave you a link where FPM said that all (or almost all) American Muslim organizations are a front for the Muslim Brotherhood. If you now want to argue the truth of FPM's fantastical claim, then you are free to do so but it's not something that interests me. There are dozens of Muslim bashing threads where addle minded nonsense thrives. Would you be so kind as to take yours over there?


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> You're thrashing. You said that it was a lie I gave you a link where FPM said that all (or almost all) American Muslim organizations are a front for the Muslim Brotherhood.


No you didn't. These are your words, not from the article. Man, you are SO full of shite, it's almost impressive.



> If you now want to argue the truth of FPM's fantastical claim,


FPM talks about specific organizations and their support for islamism, sharia, world Caliphate. They provide plenty of evidence, making the claim factual rather than "fantastical". 

And if you are going to spread your libellous claims here then it is here where I intend to debunk them.


----------



## humble_pie

it's weird how the extreme left & the extreme right meet together at the back of the circle

how did FPM ever manage to start schmoozing with white-supremacist-heil-trump-krypto-fascist robert spencer?

.


----------



## olivaw

Nobody is going to convince the mordkos and SMKs of the world that Frontpage Mag's produces fear-mongering drivel. They've lost objectivity. The hope, however, is that more critical thinkers will recognize the site's agenda and approach it with skepticism. 

Here are a few more examples of bovine faeces coming from FrontPage Mag. 

*OBAMA AND THE BROTHERHOOD: THE TIES THAT BIND*

*HUMA ABEDIN: THE SECURITY BREACH HILLARY IS STILL HIDING*

*BIG BROTHERHOOD IS WATCHING YOU Why is the U.S. government only interested in partnering with the most radical Islamic groups?*

*SOROS'S WOMEN’S MARCH OF HATE The Left’s rage unleashed on the streets of Washington.*

*ISLAMOFACISM IN DC: ANTI-ISRAEL HATE GROUP JVP TEAMS UP WITH AL QAEDA LEADER'S FORMER MOSQUE*


----------



## mordko

> how did FPM ever manage to start schmoozing with white-supremacist-heil-trump-krypto-fascist robert spencer?


^ that's just an ignoramus talking, as per usual. Beyond not knowing left from right:

- Robert Spencer is a somewhat controversial counter-jihadist of Greek background who writes for Jihad Watch.
- Richard Spencer is a far right American antisemite who is fond of German slogans of a certain era and happens to be associated with Alt Right.

Two different people.


----------



## Eder

I put mordko ahead 5-3 at this point.


----------



## wraphter

olivaw said:


> Nobody is going to convince the mordkos and SMKs of the world that Frontpage Mag's produces fear-mongering drivel. They've lost objectivity. The hope, however, is that more critical thinkers will recognize the site's agenda and approach it with skepticism.
> 
> Here are a few more examples of bovine faeces coming from FrontPage Mag.
> 
> *OBAMA AND THE BROTHERHOOD: THE TIES THAT BIND*
> 
> *HUMA ABEDIN: THE SECURITY BREACH HILLARY IS STILL HIDING*
> 
> *BIG BROTHERHOOD IS WATCHING YOU Why is the U.S. government only interested in partnering with the most radical Islamic groups?*
> 
> *SOROS'S WOMEN’S MARCH OF HATE The Left’s rage unleashed on the streets of Washington.*
> 
> *ISLAMOFACISM IN DC: ANTI-ISRAEL HATE GROUP JVP TEAMS UP WITH AL QAEDA LEADER'S FORMER MOSQUE*


Just quoting headlines without excerpts and explanations proves nothing. You haven't shown that FPM deserves to be blacklisted.
Typical Islamophile obfuscation.

Nice graphics though.


----------



## SMK

olivaw said:


> Nobody is going to convince the mordkos and SMKs of the world that Frontpage Mag's produces fear-mongering drivel. They've lost objectivity. The hope, however, is that more critical thinkers will recognize the site's agenda and approach it with skepticism.
> 
> Here are a few more examples of bovine faeces coming from FrontPage Mag.
> 
> *OBAMA AND THE BROTHERHOOD: THE TIES THAT BIND*
> 
> *HUMA ABEDIN: THE SECURITY BREACH HILLARY IS STILL HIDING*
> 
> *BIG BROTHERHOOD IS WATCHING YOU Why is the U.S. government only interested in partnering with the most radical Islamic groups?*
> 
> *SOROS'S WOMEN’S MARCH OF HATE The Left’s rage unleashed on the streets of Washington.*
> 
> *ISLAMOFACISM IN DC: ANTI-ISRAEL HATE GROUP JVP TEAMS UP WITH AL QAEDA LEADER'S FORMER MOSQUE*


LOL, and I haven't even participated in any of this. You also probably believe all the BS written here by the likes of james4beach, the real critical thinkers here.


----------



## olivaw

wraphter said:


> Just quoting headlines without excerpts and explanations proves nothing. You haven't shown that FPM deserves to be blacklisted.
> Typical Islamophile obfuscation.


The quotes linked to the original articles. 

"Blacklisted", "Islamophile", "obfuscation". That there is some funny sh-t.


----------



## humble_pie

mordko said:


> ^ that's just an ignoramus talking, as per usual. Beyond not knowing left from right



lol jealous some?
you should be flattered instead, i'm just borrowing from you .each:

it was mordko who posted recently that extreme right often meets up with extreme left

nowhere is this more evident than when david horowitz embraces heil-hitler robert spencer.



.


----------



## mordko

I see three plausible explanations here:

1. HP is too dumb to understand plain English. 
2. HP deliberately spouts complete and utter nonsense.
3. Both 1 and 2. 

Again... Robert Spencer and Richard Spencer are two different people. David Horowitz works with Robert and has nothing to do with Hail Trump Richard Spencer.


----------



## olivaw

Robert Spencer isn't (AFAIK) associated with a white supremacist group, but he is something of a purveyor of fake news and hate. He runs Jihad Watch, a site that has been repeatedly criticised by academics for promoting an Islamophobic worldview and conspiracy theories. 

Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) listed Spencer as a "Smearcaster"

Spencer co-founded Stop Islamization of America (SIOA) and the Freedom Defense Initiative (FDI) with Pamela Geller in 2010. Both organizations are designated as hate groups by the Anti-defamation league and the Southern Poverty Law Centre.

SPLC's, Robert Steinback listed Spencer as a member of the "anti-Muslim inner circle"

Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) called Spencer an American anti-Muslim who "promote a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the pretext of fighting radical Islam. 

Popular writer Karen Armstrong has concluded Spencer's writings are a gift to Muslim extremists who can use them to argue "that the west is incurably hostile to their faith."

----


Humble brought up the the nexus Between White Supremacists and Islamophobes. It's an appropriate topic of conversation and one that has been advanced on this forum by other thoughtful posters. The tactics are the same, but there may be more to in than that. They have found common cause in their support for Donald J. Trump.


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> So the construction and maintenance is also automated with no land or income taxes paid? No employees? Seriously...this is how economy's grow. I guess the fact anything good happens in the next 4 years will be scrutinized & discounted. Plain silly.


I said job-light, not job free. There is probably creative accounting involved in the 50k job figure, such as counting short term construction work.

Also, and more to the point, these decisions are made regularless of the meatbag in the White House. I don't know if you work in business where these kinds of investment decisions are made, but factors like taxation, etc. are tertiary to the underlying economics of the actual business. In other words, this is a transportation vs labour cost play. Paying 25% vs 35% corporate tax is not going to sway this investment decision significantly. I spend my days doing this kind of analysis (albeit, not on $9 billion manufacturing plants).

I don't know if you follow Foxconn very closely, but their stated ambition is to largely automate electronics assembly. Expecting them to open a plant reminiscent of their Chinese operations in the US is delusional.


----------



## mordko

Robert Spencer isn't my cup of tea, but claiming that he is a neo-nazi = idiotic and obvious libel. 

Nor does he publish "fake news". He does not publish any news; his blog is not a news site at all. He is a writer (a best-selling New York Times author, no less). His family suffered from Islamism, so he does have a bit of a personal history there. 

He runs an anti-islamist commentary site JihadWatch, which provides a lot of accurate information as well as some unreasonable and overexcited commentary to further his agenda. Nor am I particularly fond of Pamela Gellar, who is associated with Spencer. Heck; I can say the same about most political commentators on CNN, all of whom come with their own agendas. 

None of it is really relevant to the excellent satirist and artist, an anti-Soviet dissidend, who runs the People's Cube spoof site (http://thepeoplescube.com/), and who was arrested for distributing accurate information about Islamists. That happened in Obama's US of A. Reason 4058405899998r9048409854 why America has to change. Enough is enough.


----------



## mordko

On a side note, I do like statements like this:



> repeatedly criticised by academics


This vacuous claim is beyond meaningless. "Academics" range:

- from neo-nazis (https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/09/...ollowing-outcry-by-major-jewish-organization/) 
- to communist genocide deniers (http://jim.com/chomsdis.htm)
- and, of course, supporters of proscribed Islamo-nazi mass murdering organizations (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/197587)

Going back to the USSR, every commie would ALWAYS start a sentence with "on behalf of myself and all my friends..." because they didn't have any actual facts to back up their bullshit. Nice to see how Canadian lefties follow in the steps of their teachers.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> I said job-light, not job free. There is probably creative accounting involved in the 50k job figure, such as counting short term construction work.
> 
> Also, and more to the point, these decisions are made regularless of the meatbag in the White House. I don't know if you work in business where these kinds of investment decisions are made, but factors like taxation, etc. are tertiary to the underlying economics of the actual business. In other words, this is a transportation vs labour cost play. Paying 25% vs 35% corporate tax is not going to sway this investment decision significantly. I spend my days doing this kind of analysis (albeit, not on $9 billion manufacturing plants).
> 
> I don't know if you follow Foxconn very closely, but their stated ambition is to largely automate electronics assembly. Expecting them to open a plant reminiscent of their Chinese operations in the US is delusional.


Einstein: Automation and robotics will continue-and will impact the cheap foreign labour economy greatly. Scary that anyone pays you for analysis.


----------



## andrewf

I hope your employer doesn't rely on your ability to comprehend written texts.


----------



## olivaw

mordko said:


> This vacuous claim is beyond meaningless. "Academics" range:.


Well fortunately I named names and what was written. The remainder of this post appears to lack focus so there is no need to respond.

We've had a couple of invalid USSR comparison lately. A milder form of Godwinism?


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Einstein: Automation and robotics will continue-and will impact the cheap foreign labour economy greatly.


What good are protectionism and tariffs when jobs are lost to domestic robots? Trump is fighting yesterday's battles with last weeks tactics.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> What good are protectionism and tariffs when jobs are lost to domestic robots? Trump is fighting yesterday's battles with last weeks tactics.


A tariff is a TAX-somehow you cannot understand that simple concept. Taxes help fund government spending.


----------



## andrewf

Tariffs are a tax on American consumers.


----------



## mordko

andrewf said:


> Tariffs are a tax on American consumers.


Except they are far worse than consumption taxes. They are taxes on trade designed to protect inefficient production and punish efficient production.


----------



## carverman

mordko said:


> Except they are far worse than consumption taxes. They are taxes on trade designed to protect inefficient production and punish efficient production.


So in essence, a tariff is a government imposed restriction on imported goods, if the same product or class of products are presently manufactured in the USA..resulting in possible loss of American jobs.

Now suppose that the product in question, or class of products in question, subject to tarriffs, is no longer manufactured in the USA employing American workers that pay American taxes (Income taxes and consumption taxes). 

What happens then?

Another area that will be discussed when the NAFTA agreement is opened for discussion is the softwood lumber exports from Canada. Crude oil and the Dakota Access pipeline (formerly known as the Keystone XL) that OBama opposed will be built most likely because Trump has consideral investment interest in this pipeline to be built.

Ifand when that pipeline construction goes ahead, the Native Americans that were blocking it going across their lands due to environmental reasons, there will be starting a long standing bitter fight with the Trump adminstration.

I can see many court battles on this one, possibly going all the way to the US Supreme court to reach a decision.
In his inagural speech he emphasized: "From now on, power will be in the hands of the people"....

Trump with only business experience, thinks it's easy to just sign a few papers in the Oval office and that's all that needs to be done to get his financial interests to go ahead, without raising massive objections from "the people he is claiming he will restore power to. 


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/us-army-corps-blocks-dakota-access-pipeline-232172


----------



## Nelley

mordko said:


> Except they are far worse than consumption taxes. They are taxes on trade designed to protect inefficient production and punish efficient production.


You guys have never heard of income tax-which tariff tax revenue can at least theoretically replace (for a country like the USA with a huge trade deficit and consumer base).


----------



## Nelley

carverman said:


> So in essence, a tariff is a government imposed restriction on imported goods, if the same product or class of products are presently manufactured in the USA..resulting in possible loss of American jobs.
> 
> Now suppose that the product in question, or class of products in question, subject to tarriffs, is no longer manufactured in the USA employing American workers that pay American taxes (Income taxes and consumption taxes).
> 
> What happens then?
> 
> Another area that will be discussed when the NAFTA agreement is opened for discussion is the softwood lumber exports from Canada. Crude oil and the Dakota Access pipeline (formerly known as the Keystone XL) that OBama opposed will be built most likely because Trump has consideral investment interest in this pipeline to be built.
> 
> Ifand when that pipeline construction goes ahead, the Native Americans that were blocking it going across their lands due to environmental reasons, there will be starting a long standing bitter fight with the Trump adminstration.
> 
> I can see many court battles on this one, possibly going all the way to the US Supreme court to reach a decision.
> In his inagural speech he emphasized: "From now on, power will be in the hands of the people"....
> 
> Trump with only business experience, thinks it's easy to just sign a few papers in the Oval office and that's all that needs to be done to get his financial interests to go ahead, without raising massive objections from "the people he is claiming he will restore power to.
> 
> 
> http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/us-army-corps-blocks-dakota-access-pipeline-232172


If a tariff tax is a guv restriction on imported goods, then income tax is a guv restriction on income.


----------



## Eder

carverman said:


> Crude oil and the Dakota Access pipeline (formerly known as the Keystone XL) t
> 
> -232172[/url]


lol I quit reading at this point. At least get the basic premise down.


----------



## Eder

andrewf said:


> I said job-light, not job free. There is probably creative accounting involved in the 50k job figure, such as counting short term construction work.
> 
> Also, and more to the point, these decisions are made regularless of the meatbag in the White House. I don't know if you work in business where these kinds of investment decisions are made, but factors like taxation, etc. are tertiary to the underlying economics of the actual business. In other words, this is a transportation vs labour cost play. Paying 25% vs 35% corporate tax is not going to sway this investment decision significantly. I spend my days doing this kind of analysis (albeit, not on $9 billion manufacturing plants).


oops heres another one

Coinciding with Tuesday's meeting, Toyota Motor Corp said it would add 400 jobs and invest $600 million in an Indiana plant, aiming to boost production of a popular SUV by 10 percent.


----------



## Nelley

Trump has been in the job 4 days and already he has more positive accomplishment than Obozo in 8 years. Jeez.


----------



## mordko

Here is the thing: it takes time to put together investment decisions. Companies might be timing/publicizing/spinning what they had decided a long time ago but there is absolutely no chance that Trump made any difference to Toyota's investment in Indiana. 

Now... If we see a strong growth in investment for 2017 vs 2016 then there is something to discuss. Other factors to ponder at around the same time: 
- inflation/cost of living
- budget deficit
- real income
- productivity growth


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> oops heres another one
> 
> Coinciding with Tuesday's meeting, Toyota Motor Corp said it would add 400 jobs and invest $600 million in an Indiana plant, aiming to boost production of a popular SUV by 10 percent.


And so? Does Trump get credit for all the automaker investments in Canada as well?


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> Trump has been in the job 4 days and already he has more positive accomplishment than Obozo in 8 years. Jeez.


Care to enumerate, and prove how Trump is primarily responsible?

Companies make investment decisions all the time. It is absurd (borderline simple) to attribute them to the president.


----------



## andrewf

mordko said:


> Here is the thing: it takes time to put together investment decisions. Companies might be timing/publicizing/spinning what they had decided a long time ago but there is absolutely no chance that Trump made any difference to Toyota's investment in Indiana.
> 
> Now... If we see a strong growth in investment for 2017 vs 2016 then there is something to discuss. Other factors to ponder at around the same time:
> - inflation/cost of living
> - budget deficit
> - real income
> - productivity growth


Indeed. As I said, I am involved in these kinds of decisions. Toyota already had these plans in the works prior to Trump's election in November. It makes more sense to give Hillary credit for these investments, since she was the expected winner.


----------



## mordko

What Trump does get credit for, is the Keystone decision. While a win-win and a no-brainer, we have to credit Trump for not being an a-hole like his predecessor, at least on this specific issue.


----------



## new dog

Now comes the hard part and trying to get it built with all the roadblocks in the way.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Indeed. As I said, I am involved in these kinds of decisions. Toyota already had these plans in the works prior to Trump's election in November. It makes more sense to give Hillary credit for these investments, since she was the expected winner.


No, Bush deserves the credit. After all, if Obama can blame him for everything that went wrong during his reign of failure, then he also deserves to be credited for Toyota. 

You see...dumb logic can work both ways.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> Indeed. As I said, I am involved in these kinds of decisions. Toyota already had these plans in the works prior to Trump's election in November. It makes more sense to give Hillary credit for these investments, since she was the expected winner.


Big Decision Maker: You might as well give Crooked Hillary all the credit for cancelling the TPP while you are on a roll-LOL.


----------



## sags

Toyota is also building a new plant in Mexico and expanding operations of their existing plant there.


----------



## olivaw

Oil industry folks are not celebrating Trump"s Keystone XL announcement just yet. The words "subject to renegotiation" leave too much wiggle room.


----------



## sags

Trump is demanding a permanent royalty on the oil flowing through the Keystone Pipeline.

It remains to be seen if the pipeline will be economically viable, but that is for the private investors to decide.


----------



## andrewf

mordko said:


> What Trump does get credit for, is the Keystone decision. While a win-win and a no-brainer, we have to credit Trump for not being an a-hole like his predecessor, at least on this specific issue.


Well, now comes the shakedown. He will approve Keystone subject to conditions.

I think Hillary would have approved without banana republic style shakedowns.


----------



## mordko

Hillary declared that she was against the pipeline. Now... secretly she may have had other plans, or so some people believe. We will never know but lack of trust is exactly why she is a private citizen even with the weak opponent she was put up against.


----------



## new dog

Andrewf you do realize that Hillary was a big time bought and paid for puppet. She doesn't care at all about people or anyone on the left, just her masters.


----------



## andrewf

Both candidates are always bought and paid for. As I've said, this is a failing of the US political system.


----------



## new dog

Very true, can't disagree.


----------



## olivaw

Re:Keystone XL
The permanent royalty (tarrif?) is Trump's opening salvo in the "renegotiation".


----------



## sags

In only a few days Trump has revealed why many considered him unfit for the Presidency.

He appears on a collision course, not only with Democrats but with many in his own party.


----------



## new dog

Sags you just noticed this now. He has been on a collision course with all the globalists who are both democrat and republican. Both parties are fed at the same trough and those that feed them run the agenda.


----------



## new dog

I think this is a great thing looking into voter fraud by Trump. It doesn't matter how much it may help him on the popular vote front in the past election but it is a very good thing for future elections.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-tweet-alleged-voter-fraud-1.3951201


----------



## SMK

new dog said:


> Sags you just noticed this now. He has been on a collision course with all the globalists who are both democrat and republican. Both parties are fed at the same trough and those that feed them run the agenda.


What we've known about DJT, is that he's been consistent for almost half his life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZpMJeynBeg


----------



## humble_pie

olivaw said:


> Re:Keystone XL
> The permanent royalty (tarrif?) is Trump's opening salvo in the "renegotiation".



i believe what trump said right after he signed the XL executive order is that the pipes must be USA manufacture.

it was during the pre-election campaign that he said he'd want a 25% keystone XL royalty payment.

ie transcanada pays 100% to build the pipeline & pays 100% to maintain it. Maintenance includes the considerable costs of insuring against all possible cleanup scenarios along the route.

then trump gets to skim off 25% of the profit? it almost makes me think Energy East could be more viable.

canadian mines in foreign countries routinely pay 2-5-10% royalties to host nations. I have never heard of a foreign resource royalty payment as high as 25%.

PS re the pipes, it's my understanding that many/most of these have already been bought, paid for & delivered to their US worksites, where they have been sitting on the ground, waiting, for 2 or 3 years already. The southern XL segment has already been built.

so it's the size of donald trump's royalty grab that stands to be negotiated.

re the photo-op, i'm expecting a lot of these. Trump the entertainment czar holding up to the cameras a poster that purports to be a newly signed executive order. While flunkies, footmen & minions behind him ooh & aah at the presidential magnificence.

however, each & every executive order photo-op poster will have broadly negotiable terms & will therefore be close to meaningless ...


.


----------



## Eclectic12

sags said:


> Trump is demanding a permanent royalty on the oil flowing through the Keystone Pipeline.
> It remains to be seen if the pipeline will be economically viable, but that is for the private investors to decide.


Not sure it will be the private investors so much (or maybe I should be writing "retail, small investors") as the executives plus the big institutional investors.

Time will tell.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic12

mordko said:


> Here is the thing: it takes time to put together investment decisions. Companies might be timing/publicizing/spinning what they had decided a long time ago but there is absolutely no chance that Trump made any difference to Toyota's investment in Indiana.


Not sure of the details of the Toyota investments but unless one believes there were arrangements with Ford to help Trump out, announcing Mexico in April 2016 then substituting a smaller US investments in less than a year seems to be clearly tied to the Trump administration as well as what is anticipated their plans are.




mordko said:


> Now... If we see a strong growth in investment for 2017 vs 2016 then there is something to discuss. Other factors to ponder at around the same time:
> - inflation/cost of living ...


This is the one that will be interesting.

My American relatives talk about costs only slightly less than politics. I can see where the prices are relatively in line, a tariff as well as lower tax rates can swing things around. Where there is such a huge gap that costs have to rise, it is not clear how happy the consumer will be.


Cheers


----------



## humble_pie

Eclectic12 said:


> Not sure it will be the private investors so much (or maybe I should be writing "retail, small investors") as the executives plus the big institutional investors.



TRP is a federally-regulated industry so every single canadian voter does have a tiny say, or at least an influence as a stakeholder. Infinitesimally more if they're a shareholder as well.


.


----------



## olivaw

humble_pie said:


> however, each & every executive order photo-op poster will have broadly negotiable terms & will therefore be close to meaningless ...


This is my worry too, humble. 

The Keystone XL announcement is significant topic of conversation in Calgary. The retired oil guy and banker in my breakfast club are not excited. The unemployed oil guy is cautiously optimistic but admits that it may be false hope. 

Trump's showmanship may mislead individuals who deserve to know the truth.


----------



## bass player

More fake news from CNN....or is it their version of alternative truth? The original picture of the inauguration that CNN showed was taken early in a deliberately to mislead and make Trump's crowd look smaller than it actually was. They have since updated their site with the real picture, but have yet to publicly acknowledge or apologize for their deliberate lie:

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/01/politics/trump-inauguration-gigapixel/


----------



## Nelley

The MSM and the braindead sheep are hilarious-all of a sudden the all-important Russia/Putin story has vanished from the MSM-it was the big thing and now it is Gone With the Wind-LOL.


----------



## new dog

I can't get it to work Bass but if this is true then it is a good find.


----------



## sags

There is lots of empty space on the roads on the right and left of the main court. They are virtually empty.

The numbers aren't just taken from the photographs. The Washington transit also has numbers of people using the system.


----------



## Eder

There's room for 10's more people on the sides!


----------



## Just a Guy




----------



## bass player

Just a Guy said:


> View attachment 13722


CNN, New York Times, and NPR right in the middle? Hilarious!!


----------



## Just a Guy

But may be on the bottom, which is basically tabloid media. It's a two axis chart. Read it carefully. It's also probably old, I've seen a shift in certain outlets lately.


----------



## bass player

Obama accidentally confuses which religion he follows. I guess it's an easy mistake that anyone can make... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> I can't get it to work Bass but if this is true then it is a good find.


Here's a YouTube someone made of the interactive video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0f222hZtNk


----------



## olivaw

In *How to Overcome Political Irrationality About Facts* The Atlantic discusses why some Trump supporters are so willing to "_lie_" about inauguration attendance. It turns out that some of them actually believe the lies. 

The truth is easily checked. Photographic and statistical evidence demonstrates that Trump's inauguration attendance was a fraction of the attendance of Obama's 2009 inauguration. Yet,Trump supporters clung to the belief that Trump's numbers were higher. They ignored the evidence or claimed that it was manipulated. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-heres-what-they-said/?utm_term=.4afc320482e1). 

The study showed that while some Trump supporters may not believe the misinformation they express, others do. 

Washington Post *writes*,


> "With the Trump administration already accuses others of producing “fake news,” and instead offers its own (false) “alternative facts.” If a significant portion of Trump supporters are willing to champion obvious fabrications, challenging fabrications with facts will be difficult."


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> In *How to Overcome Political Irrationality About Facts* The Atlantic discusses why some Trump supporters are so willing to "_lie_" about inauguration attendance. It turns out that some of them actually believe the lies.
> 
> The truth is easily checked. Photographic and statistical evidence demonstrates that Trump's inauguration attendance was a fraction of the attendance of Obama's 2009 inauguration. Yet,Trump supporters clung to the belief that Trump's numbers were higher. They ignored the evidence or claimed that it was manipulated. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-heres-what-they-said/?utm_term=.4afc320482e1).
> 
> The study showed that while some Trump supporters may not believe the misinformation they express, others do.
> 
> Washington Post *writes*,


Is this fake news? Or, alternative facts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> CNN, New York Times, and NPR right in the middle? Hilarious!!


It is the chart of the sheep-but don't worry-the way Europe is going eventually THE ALLAHU AKBAR TIMES will be right in the middle for the braindead sheep to swallow.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> In *How to Overcome Political Irrationality About Facts* The Atlantic discusses why some Trump supporters are so willing to "_lie_" about inauguration attendance. It turns out that some of them actually believe the lies.
> 
> The truth is easily checked. Photographic and statistical evidence demonstrates that Trump's inauguration attendance was a fraction of the attendance of Obama's 2009 inauguration. Yet,Trump supporters clung to the belief that Trump's numbers were higher. They ignored the evidence or claimed that it was manipulated. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-heres-what-they-said/?utm_term=.4afc320482e1).
> 
> The study showed that while some Trump supporters may not believe the misinformation they express, others do.
> 
> Washington Post *writes*,


Already the number of people at this event has overshadowed the all important Putin/Russia story-you gotta laugh at the stupidity of the braindead sheep.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Is this fake news? Or, alternative facts?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M


More of an attempt to change the subject. 

On the inauguration numbers, we have a good example of _Fake News_ in the form of verifiable factual information. The new US administration stated a blatant factual lie. Many of the Trump supporters who parroted the lie continue to believe it, even after seeing evidence that proved it to be a lie.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> More of an attempt to change the subject.
> 
> On the inauguration numbers, we have a good example of _Fake News_ in the form of verifiable factual information. The new US administration stated a blatant factual lie. Many of the Trump supporters who parroted the lie continue to believe it, even after seeing evidence that proved it to be a lie.


I think Trump should drop the inauguration number topic, but the media's obsession with it makes them look foolish for not providing any balanced coverage of the many accomplishments that Trump has made in his first few days.

That being said, Obama slipped up and told the truth by mistake when he said "my Muslim faith", because no Christian (his cover story) has ever accidentally called themself a Muslim. EVER. And shame on that reporter for covering for him rather than pursuing what he said. Dismissing that video as "deflection" is laughable based on the lie Obama has tried to sell to the public for his entire life.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> More of an attempt to change the subject.
> 
> On the inauguration numbers, we have a good example of _Fake News_ in the form of verifiable factual information. The new US administration stated a blatant factual lie. Many of the Trump supporters who parroted the lie continue to believe it, even after seeing evidence that proved it to be a lie.


I think Putin did it-oh I forgot-we don't mention that name in the MSM anymore.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> I think Putin did it-oh I forgot-we don't mention that name in the MSM anymore.


The Putin/Trump relationship will be back in the news when investigators release their findings. Unless, of course, Trump's dishonest administration finds a way to suppress it.


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> That being said, Obama slipped up and told the truth by mistake when he said* "my Muslim faith"*, because no Christian (his cover story) has ever accidentally called themself a Muslim. EVER. And shame on that reporter for covering for him rather than pursuing what he said. Dismissing that video as "deflection" is laughable based on the lie Obama has tried to sell to the public for his entire life.


I think it's clear enough what Obama meant in his subsequent comment, and that's why there was nothing for the reporter to pursue.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> I think it's clear enough what Obama meant in his subsequent comment, and that's why there was nothing for the reporter to pursue.


Lol.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Is this fake news? Or, alternative facts?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M


Relevance?


----------



## new dog

Trump asked what the hell is wrong with Chicago. One word answer is Democrats.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-26/trump-asks-what-hells-going-chicago-gets-one-word-answer

ZH is fake news to many here but can you find a different answer then Democrats?


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Relevance?


The topic is fake news. That 14 second clip shows an MSM journalist hearing the so-called Christian president of the US clearly say "my Muslim faith", but instead of following that up, he "corrects" him.

What part of it don't you understand?


----------



## new dog

True Bass he did say that clearly. The only thing I have to say in Obama's defence is he may have just slipped like we all do at times. I know many times I have said the opposite of what I mean and then have to correct it in daily life.

However it still doesn't say that he may have meant it and then corrected to his alternative truth. We never know for sure but still a good fake news call.


----------



## new dog

I have to wonder what has happened to Russia? The story is dead for now as the news focuses on other stuff until Russia can surface again.

I am sure CNN got the call from their real boss or owner that the Russian story is lost for now because we don't have Hillary to start a cold or hot war with them.

On Syria it to is lost and it goes back to Assad and Syria can go back to normal except for the ruble of course.

On ISIS it is on the ropes without the support of Hillary and Obama so it will have to go in a different direction. Probably to terrorism instead of a more direct conflict like in Syria.


----------



## SMK

Fake news - Obama is a Muslim.
Fact - Obama's father was a former Muslim, but Obama is a Christian. That he's been an appeaser and apologist for Islamic terrorism and other stuff is another issue altogether. http://www.newsweek.com/cover-story-barack-obamas-christian-journey-92611

Obama has falsely been labelled an Arab and Muslim mostly by racists and uninformed folks, that's what Obama was talking about - "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith", referring to what others were saying about him, but not McCain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRq6Y4NmB6U


----------



## bass player

Yeah, it's a very common mistake for Christian people to accidentally refer to their Muslim faith....


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> I have to wonder what has happened to Russia? The story is dead for now as the news focuses on other stuff until Russia can surface again.
> 
> I am sure CNN got the call from their real boss or owner that the Russian story is lost for now because we don't have Hillary to start a cold or hot war with them.
> 
> On Syria it to is lost and it goes back to Assad and Syria can go back to normal except for the ruble of course.
> 
> On ISIS it is on the ropes without the support of Hillary and Obama so it will have to go in a different direction. Probably to terrorism instead of a more direct conflict like in Syria.


Trumpists appear to be engaged in a little wishful group thinking when it comes to Russia. It is very much in the news and the investigation into Trump campaign ties continues. 

*There’s Something Very Weird Happening Inside Russia’s Cybersecurity World*
*Kellyanne Conway: Removing sanctions on Russia 'is under consideration'*
*Putin and Trump set for phone call as US president considers lifting sanctions*
*Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates*
*Second Hill panel to probe possible ties between Russia, Trump campaign*


----------



## olivaw

Speaking of Russia: 

Mikhail Gorbachev: 'It All Looks as if the World Is Preparing for War'



> While state budgets are struggling to fund people’s essential social needs, military spending is growing. Money is easily found for sophisticated weapons whose destructive power is comparable to that of the weapons of mass destruction; for submarines whose single salvo is capable of devastating half a continent; for missile defense systems that undermine strategic stability.
> 
> Politicians and military leaders sound increasingly belligerent and defense doctrines more dangerous. Commentators and TV personalities are joining the bellicose chorus. It all looks as if the world is preparing for war.
> 
> ...
> 
> I urge the members of the U.N. Security Council — the body that bears primary responsibility for international peace and security — to take the first step. Specifically, I propose that a Security Council meeting at the level of heads of state adopt a resolution stating that nuclear war is unacceptable and must never be fought.
> 
> I think the initiative to adopt such a resolution should come from Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin — the Presidents of two nations that hold over 90% of the world’s nuclear arsenals and therefore bear a special responsibility.
> 
> President Franklin D. Roosevelt once said that one of the main freedoms is freedom from fear. Today, the burden of fear and the stress of bearing it is felt by millions of people, and the main reason for it is militarism, armed conflicts, the arms race, and the nuclear Sword of Damocles. Ridding the world of this fear means making people freer. This should become a common goal. Many other problems would then be easier to resolve.The time to decide and act is now.


Setting aside partisan squabbles and the blame game, I think Gorbachev is correct. We're heading in the wrong direction.


----------



## sags

The Pentagon refused to answer if they have plans to disobey nuclear launch orders from Trump, unless the US is under direct attack.

A bill will be introduced in the legislature to limit a President's sole authority to launch missiles, and it will be replaced by a select group of political leaders.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> The Pentagon refused to answer if they have plans to disobey nuclear launch orders from Trump, unless the US is under direct attack.
> 
> A bill will be introduced in the legislature to limit a President's sole authority to launch missiles, and it will be replaced by a select group of political leaders.


Last week Trump was Putin's puppet-this week he is launching the nukes against Gorby, Putin and Mother Russia-jeez louise the sheep are thick.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Last week Trump was Putin's puppet-this week he is launching the nukes against Gorby, Putin and Mother Russia-jeez louise the sheep are thick.


Trump isn't well adjusted. The concern is that he'll overreact to a perceived slight. Maybe he'd nuke Egypt over a thread count disagreement or China over the taste of his Qilan Tea.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> The topic is fake news. That 14 second clip shows an MSM journalist hearing the so-called Christian president of the US clearly say "my Muslim faith", but instead of following that up, he "corrects" him.
> 
> What part of it don't you understand?


Isn't the fake news that Obama is a Muslim? He clear fumbled over his words. I mean, I think if anything he's an atheist pretending to be Christian. But a Muslim pretending to be Christian? Don't think so...


----------



## wraphter

Obama lived in the Muslim country of Indonesia for 4 years until he was 10 or 11 when he returned to Hawaii. In his autobiography he says he attended the mosque with his step-father who was a Muslim,as was his birth-father. The application for a school shows his religion as " Islam".

From the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html



> he has actually lived abroad. He spent four years as a child in Indonesia and attended schools in the Indonesian language, which he still speaks.
> 
> ........
> 
> “I was a little Jakarta street kid,” he said in a wide-ranging interview in his office (excerpts are on my blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground). He once got in trouble for making faces during Koran study classes in his elementary school, but a president is less likely to stereotype Muslims as fanatics — and more likely to be aware of their nationalism — if he once studied the Koran with them.
> 
> ............
> 
> Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”


25% Muslim,25% Christian,25% racial hustler, 25% actor.


----------



## olivaw

25% Christian is a false metric.


----------



## SMK

He's been a Christian for nearly 30 years or more.


----------



## wraphter

olivaw said:


> 25% Christian is a false metric.


'false metric' is a pretentious phrase designed to confuse and obscure .


----------



## mordko

Oops... The Independent and a bunch of other leftie media sources are spreading fake news again. 

Remember State Department officials quitting in protest? Complete poppycock. 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12838/fake-news-media-report-state-department-employees-ben-shapiro


----------



## new dog

That was funny and a good one Mordko.


----------



## new dog

Jerry Seinfeld criticized over BLM joke. He didn't do anything wrong here and he should make even more jokes then let these people muzzle him.

http://www.nme.com/news/tv/jerry-seinfeld-criticised-black-lives-matter-joke-1960716


----------



## new dog

Finally, Infowars puts a good piece here on the possibility of voter fraud. Trump is looking into this and the media doesn't like it but it does look very likely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teZ56U-uYkc


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> He's been a Christian for nearly 30 years or more.


I guess that explains why he went out of his way to bring a record number of Muslims into the US as possible, but ignores the Christians who are being persecuted.


----------



## bass player

More fake news from the media. This is from a Philadelphia newspaper:

"Philadelphia has had yet another bloody week of gun violence. Over the course of seven days, five people were shot dead. So far this year, there have been 27 homicides; that's one a day. It's too early to tell how the year will end, but *homicides in the city to this point are up 37 percent, compared with the same period in 2016*.

Daily shootings in Philadelphia are not new. In fact, they are routine, which may be the most troubling aspect of all. Gun violence seems to barely register in the city's collective conscience. The police respond as needed. Elected officials say little or nothing. Media coverage of the mayhem rarely rises above brief mentions inside the newspaper or on local TV news. Most of the public marches on, oblivious."

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinio...her_week_of_deadly_shootings_in_the_city.html

The very same day in the very same paper, this was said:

"*A few hours after President Trump falsely told a gathering of Congressional Republicans that Philadelphia's*murder rate has been "terribly increasing," Mayor Kenney called the president a purveyor of "fake facts*."

"It's fake facts. He has a the propensity to do it," Kenney said. "He doesn't care about the truth and I really do feel badly though that the men and women of the Philadelphia Police Department who dedicate themselves everyday to driving down our crime rate, and laying their lives on the line are standing out on the sidewalk, on the street protecting him and all the other dignitaries ... and he denigrates them."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/heardinthehall/Kenney_Trump_doesnt_care_about_the_truth.html


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> I guess that explains why he went out of his way to bring a record number of Muslims into the US as possible, *but ignores the Christians *who are being persecuted.


Not true. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/05/u-s-admits-record-number-of-muslim-refugees-in-2016/


----------



## sags

Trump supports the 2nd Amendment. He proposes to "address" the problem but leave the guns on the street.

How is he going to do that ? He threatens to "send in the Feds"......which means what ?

Does he envision martial law......curfews.......stop and search......military checkpoints......what ?


----------



## sags

GM is eliminating jobs in Ontario and moving them to Mexico.

Kevin O'Leary is complaining, rightly so..........that taxpayers bailed out GM and they are leaving.

But.......he blames Justin Trudeau, which is "fake news". Stephen Harper was the PM when the bailout was negotiated.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> Trump supports the 2nd Amendment. He proposes to "address" the problem but leave the guns on the street.
> 
> How is he going to do that ? He threatens to "send in the Feds"......which means what ?
> 
> Does he envision martial law......curfews.......stop and search......military checkpoints......what ?


Trump is very busy right now getting things done-yes Democrat run Chicago is a disaster (as is Illinois) but Trump wasn't elected to fix the Chicago mess.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> GM is eliminating jobs in Ontario and moving them to Mexico.
> 
> Kevin O'Leary is complaining, rightly so..........that taxpayers bailed out GM and they are leaving.
> 
> But.......he blames Justin Trudeau, which is "fake news". Stephen Harper was the PM when the bailout was negotiated.


Trump (after one week) already is making Selfie and Wynne look really bad-the heat is on.


----------



## olivaw

wraphter said:


> 'false metric' is a pretentious phrase designed to confuse and obscure .


Spare me the impetuous whining kid. You said he was "25% Christian". No such thing as 25% Christian. It's a false metric - fake number - meaningless concept - nonsense phrase - stupid utterance - BS. Don't cry.


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> Trump (after one week) already is making Selfie and Wynne look really bad-the heat is on.


How does he make them look bad?


----------



## Nelley

Look at this-first story from the Toilet Paper of Record (NYT) is about Mark Zuckerberg, hero to all the snowflakes, how Trump's actions are wrong https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/business/technology-h-1b-visa-immigration.html?_r=0

Second story-this dirty little grifter built a MILE LONG SIX FOOT HIGH wall in Kauai blocking access to a public beach-which is technically legal but absolutely unheard of in Hawaii
http://www.businessinsider.com/prot...-plan-to-march-along-his-hawaiian-wall-2017-1


----------



## olivaw

Zuckerberg isn't the only one expressing concern. The *Computer Research Association issued a formal statement*. 



> As an organization representing the leading academic and industrial computing research institutions in the United States, the Computing Research Association expresses great concern over President Donald J. Trump’s Executive Order imposing a 90-day suspension of visas to nationals of seven countries.


----------



## bass player

It's nice to see that Zuckerberg took time away from building his wall to keep out undesirables to speak out against Trump doing exactly the same thing....keeping out undesirables from America. Why should anyone take this massive hypocrite seriously?

The left continues on their downward spiral of idiocy...


----------



## olivaw

Zuckerberg and Trump are both selfish billionaires. Meanwhile, Trump's poorly considered executive order creates *chaos*.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Zuckerberg and Trump are both selfish billionaires. Meanwhile, Trump's poorly considered executive order creates *chaos*.


You are right-every human on the planet deserves to be taken care of by the US or Canadian taxpayer.


----------



## SMK

If anything good can come of it, perhaps the rich countries in the Middle East will do more than turn a blind eye as they have been doing up to now. There's more to the Middle East than Turkey-Jordan-Lebanon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...g-for-syrias-refugees/?utm_term=.1c408c392381


----------



## olivaw

There is something to be said for asking Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman and Bahrain to do their fair share. We have to do our fair share too.


----------



## andrewf

sags said:


> Trump supports the 2nd Amendment. He proposes to "address" the problem but leave the guns on the street.
> 
> How is he going to do that ? He threatens to "send in the Feds"......which means what ?
> 
> Does he envision martial law......curfews.......stop and search......military checkpoints......what ?


2nd amendment is only for whites, silly.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> It's nice to see that Zuckerberg took time away from building his wall to keep out undesirables to speak out against Trump doing exactly the same thing....keeping out undesirables from America. Why should anyone take this massive hypocrite seriously?
> 
> The left continues on their downward spiral of idiocy...


Except the wall won't do anything. There are already tunnels under the border, there will continue to be tunnels under the border.


----------



## andrewf

olivaw said:


> Zuckerberg and Trump are both selfish billionaires. Meanwhile, Trump's poorly considered executive order creates *chaos*.


Except Zuckerberg is much, much, much richer than the Russian Puppet.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Except the wall won't do anything. There are already tunnels under the border, there will continue to be tunnels under the border.


So what? Just because they can't stop everyone, it doesn't mean that they should give up trying. Maybe after the wall is done, they'll try to do something about the tunnels.


----------



## none

bass player said:


> So what? Just because they can't stop everyone, it doesn't mean that they should give up trying. Maybe after the wall is done, they'll try to do something about the tunnels.


What about the planes? What about the illegals who are Forced to stay in the US because they're afraid they can't get back in?


----------



## bass player

none said:


> What about the planes? What about the illegals who are Forced to stay in the US because they're afraid they can't get back in?


I don't think planes full of illegals flying into the US is a big problem, and no one is being "forced" to stay in the US. Perhaps they don't want to leave, but that's not the same thing as forcing someone to stay, is it?


----------



## none

you should watch the video - it has some interesting points.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> 2nd amendment is only for whites, silly.


All the black on black murders in Chiraq is the fault of white men (according to this snowflake).


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> Except Zuckerberg is much, much, much richer than the Russian Puppet.


Financed by the braindead sheep.


----------



## bass player

none said:


> you should watch the video - it has some interesting points.


It was dumb. I lasted a minute. Regarding the cost, the wall can be built with less than 1 year of green subsidies:

"President Obama subsidized solar and other renewable energy in the United States with taxpayer money to the tune of $39 billion per year on average for the past 5 years."

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/obama-subsidizes-u-s-solar-energy-promises-india/

And if China managed to build a wall 5000 mile wall, with portions over mountains with no machines in ancient history, I'm sure that modern technology can get it done.


----------



## Eder

andrewf said:


> Except the wall won't do anything. There are already tunnels under the border, there will continue to be tunnels under the border.


Actually the tunnels are for trafficking drugs/contraband/money...illegals generally use a coyote and dash across the border where no walls exist. The wall will work and its for keeping undesirables out rather than desirables in..a difference that has been lost with the rhetoric.


----------



## none

And relevant yet again.


----------



## bass player

none said:


> And relevant yet again.


When confronted with facts that you don't like, insult. It's what "tolerant" people do


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> So what? Just because they can't stop everyone, it doesn't mean that they should give up trying. Maybe after the wall is done, they'll try to do something about the tunnels.


The wall won't stop anyone. Is it that hard to get? You're not fencing a property. It is incredibly easy to get over, under or around a 2000 mile wall.


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> All the black on black murders in Chiraq is the fault of white men (according to this snowflake).


Yet again, reading comprehension fail. Trump is going to send in the feds to confiscate the guns because the ******* don't _really_ have 2nd amendment rights.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> The wall won't stop anyone. Is it that hard to get? You're not fencing a property. It is incredibly easy to get over, under or around a 2000 mile wall.


Someone with first hand at how effective a wall can be. I'm pretty sure that Netanhayu knows more than you about walls and border security:

“President Trump is right,” tweeted Netanyahu, who is trying to forge a better relationship with Trump than the one he had with previous President Obama. “I built a wall along Israel's southern border. It stopped all illegal immigration. Great success. Great idea.”


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> The wall won't stop anyone. Is it that hard to get? You're not fencing a property. It is incredibly easy to get over, under or around a 2000 mile wall.


Einstein: You aren't getting a truck over this wall. Currently you just drive the invaders over the line in your truck-and keep driving. Is any wall impassable? Of course not-nobody says that.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> Yet again, reading comprehension fail. Trump is going to send in the feds to confiscate the guns because the ******* don't _really_ have 2nd amendment rights.


Einstein: Chiraq has the toughest gun laws anywhere-making guns illegal is like making a drug illegal-the guns don't magically vanish.


----------



## none

https://www.instagram.com/p/BP0ZmXKhJOI/


----------



## bass player

none said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BP0ZmXKhJOI/


Fake stats...."since 911". Sure...leave out the biggest massacre in US history. What sort of yearly stat picks a random start date like September 12? 

And, of course, that doesn't include Muslim in Chief Obama calling Fort Hood "workplace violence", and the many cases where motive is "unknown" or attributed to something other cause even though everyone knows exactly what the motive was.


----------



## olivaw

^President Obama was so consequential that bitter right wingers still parrot conspiracy theories about him. Hilarious.


----------



## none




----------



## wraphter

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_P5vbBS1j1kQVRBaXc1V01QX1E

The cover of the Trumpet, the magazine of the church of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright,racist anti-American preacher who was Obama's mentor and friend for many years,famous for his curse--Not God bless America,God damn America.

In the second row on the left is Barack Obama,then a woman I don't recognize,then Jeremiah Wright then Louis Farrakhan ,vehemently anti-White leader of the Nation of Islam.

Of course Obama disowned Wright. They said he threw him under the bus when Obama got a new hustle .

Still to appear on the cover of a magazine with Louis Farrakhan,that's something you can't forget.

Of course Obama hung around with other incriminating characters like Bill Ayers who started his political career 
by holding a fundraiser at his home. Bill Ayers was a founder of the terrorist anti-war group the Weathermen.
He got off on a technicality after which he said--Guilty as hell,free as a bird.

Boris Johnson,Foreign Minister of Britain, remarked that Obama got rid of the bust of Churchill in the Oval Office because of his association with colonialism in Kenya. It was said that Obama's paternal
grandfather was abused by the British in Kenya.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Someone with first hand at how effective a wall can be. I'm pretty sure that Netanhayu knows more than you about walls and border security:
> 
> “President Trump is right,” tweeted Netanyahu, who is trying to forge a better relationship with Trump than the one he had with previous President Obama. “I built a wall along Israel's southern border. It stopped all illegal immigration. Great success. Great idea.”


How long is the West Bank wall? How populated is it? Compare and contrast to the US-Mexican border.


----------



## wraphter

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_P5vbBS1j1kaXFYMXIxNWdvVTg

A photocopy of the school application of Barry Soetoro as Obama was called them. On line four it shows his religion as 'Islam'. 

Obama clearly had divided loyalties.


----------



## andrewf

Clearly, eh? Wow. Yet, you think it is unfair to describe the Puppet as a sexual predator, given that he brags about how he grabs women by the genitals without permission, and gets away with it because he is famous?


----------



## olivaw

Obama took out Osama Bin Laden. So much for fringe conspiracy theories about him being a Kenyan Muslim. The tinfoil hatters need new material.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> Obama took out Osama Bin Laden. So much for fringe conspiracy theories about him being a Kenyan Muslim. The tinfoil hatters need new material.


LOL-fringe conspiracy theories-the "secret burial at sea" was a nice touch-no pictures please-we're shy.


----------



## new dog

Nelley is right about the sea burial. Or how about Judge Scalia death and then no autopsy. Lots of strange stuff going on that does make one think about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/18/opinions/justice-scalia-no-autopsy-melinek/

This even comes from CNN so the story can't be denied.


----------



## wraphter

andrewf said:


> Clearly, eh? Wow. Yet, you think it is unfair to describe the Puppet as a sexual predator, given that he brags about how he grabs women by the genitals without permission, and gets away with it because he is famous?


Trump.among other things,is a sexual predator and is an admirer of the governing style of Putin. The dossier prepared by
ex-MI6 official Christopher Steele that was briefed by the CIA to Trump and Obama may be true.If there was contact between Russian hackers and the Trump campaign is currently being investigated.


----------



## new dog

I add this as well on the seal team being killed not long after the Bin Laden raid.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/5/obama-stonewalls-seal-team-6-extortion-17-helicopt/

Again it does leave you to at least think about it.


----------



## new dog

Of course there is no concern ever over the contact with the media and the Hillary campaign.


----------



## SMK

wraphter said:


> The dossier prepared by ex-MI6 official Christopher Steele that was briefed by the CIA to Trump and Obama may be true.


And ex-KGB Oleg Erovinkin, alleged to have helped Christopher Steele, has been mysteriously found dead in the back of his car - murdered likely by...any guesses?


----------



## wraphter

SMK said:


> And ex-KGB Oleg Erovinkin, alleged to have helped Christopher Steele, has been mysteriously found dead in the back of his car - murdered likely by...any guesses?


Very interesting post SMK,thanks.

It was probably the Russians who killed him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...b-chief-linked-mi6-spys-dossier-donald-trump/



> An ex-KGB chief suspected of helping the former MI6 spy Christopher Steele to compile his dossier on Donald Trump may have been murdered by the Kremlin and his death covered up. it has been claimed.
> 
> Oleg Erovinkin, a former general in the KGB and its successor the FSB, was found dead in the back of his car in Moscow on Boxing Day in mysterious circumstances.
> 
> Erovinkin was a key aide to Igor Sechin, a former deputy prime minister and now head of Rosneft, the state-owned oil company, who is repeatedly named in the dossier.
> 
> Mr Grozev, of Risk Management Lab, a think tank in Bulgaria, said: “I have no doubt that at the time Erovinkin died, Mr Putin had Mr Steele’s Trump dossier on his desk. He would – arguably – have known whether the alleged... story is based on fact or fiction.
> 
> "Whichever is true, he would have had a motive to seek – and find the mole... He would have had to conclude that Erovinkin was at least a person of interest.”


----------



## none

I donated $100 to the ACLU. I suggest those that also consider Trump horrifying do the same.

https://action.aclu.org/secure/donate-to-aclu


----------



## mordko

Worth noting that ACLU routinely defends organizations with links to terrorism. https://capitalresearch.org/article...ies-union-how-it-thwarts-freedom-of-religion/


----------



## olivaw

Worth noting that the ACLU defends the civil liberties of all Americans by defending the civil liberties of American's who say unpopular things.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Nelley is right about the sea burial. Or how about Judge Scalia death and then no autopsy. Lots of strange stuff going on that does make one think about it.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/18/opinions/justice-scalia-no-autopsy-melinek/
> 
> This even comes from CNN so the story can't be denied.


I asked tin foil hatters to provide new material and they obliged. 

Thank you.


----------



## mordko

Indeed. Terrorism isn't all that popular in N America just yet.


----------



## olivaw

Indeed, those who seek to silent their opponents often call them terrorists.


----------



## mordko

Defining terrorism isn't all that difficult. Deliberate mass murder of civilians. Some on the left have a real problem with this.


----------



## andrewf

So fire bombing of Dresden was terrorism? Or does it have to be perpetrated by non-state actors?


----------



## olivaw

Those who would suppress our rights sometimes use weasel phrases like "_links to terrorism_" to broaden the brush. Here's an example.



mordko said:


> Worth noting that ACLU routinely defends organizations with links to terrorism.]


Upthread, certain individuals even tried to argue that the Women's March on Washington had "_links to terrorism_".

Trump's ban on citizens of certain nations (those which have not allowed him to build a Trump hotel) relies on the "_links to terrorism_" nonsense too.


----------



## andrewf

By this standard, US should also ban entry for all Russians, since Chechnya is a source of Islamic terrorists. Will any of us wonder why Russia was left off the list ?


----------



## bass player

On of the speakers at the women's march was a convicted murderer who was involved in the torture and murder of a gay man:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/26/w...eaker-who-kidnapped-raped-and-tortured-a-man/

The fake news msm media refuses to report on this.


----------



## mordko

andrewf said:


> So fire bombing of Dresden was terrorism? Or does it have to be perpetrated by non-state actors?


There was a war and there were strategic military objectives.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> On of the speakers at the women's march was a convicted murderer who was involved in the torture and murder of a gay man:


*shrug* Some Trump supporters have felony convictions. You don't smear the majority with the actions of the minority, or the one.


----------



## mordko

andrewf said:


> By this standard, US should also ban entry for all Russians, since Chechnya is a source of Islamic terrorists. Will any of us wonder why Russia was left off the list ?


...by the Obama administration. The list of 7 countries was not composed by Trump.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> *shrug* Some Trump supporters have felony convictions. You don't smear the majority with the actions of a minority, or the one.


That's right. No one would ever call Trump supporters racists because of the actions of a few in the minority.
And, no one would call Trump supporters KKK members over the comments made by ONE person.

Question: Are you able to recognize your massive hypocrisy?


----------



## bass player

mordko said:


> ...by the Obama administration. The list of 7 countries was not composed by Trump.


The lying media won't report this.


----------



## olivaw

^LOL, according to Sean Spicer. We'll see what fact checkers have to say. Perhaps it's all just a happy coincidence that Trump hasn't banned citizens of countries where he does business.


----------



## mordko

True. Indeed, CNN et al are spreading fake news on this subject. Don't get me wrong, Trump's order is dumb, opportunistic, immoral and indefensible. Still, the media are spreading disinformation on the subject. Here is a nice summary. 

http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/0...visa-executive-order-are-false-or-misleading/


----------



## mordko

olivaw said:


> ^LOL, according to Sean Spicer. We'll see what fact checkers have to say. Perhaps it's all just a happy coincidence that Trump hasn't banned citizens of countries where he does business.


The order doesn't even name the 7 countries. Simply references Obamas law. Clearly you haven't read it. It's not all that long and available from NY Times.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> That's right. No one would ever call Trump supporters racists because of the actions of a few in the minority.
> And, no one would call Trump supporters KKK members over the comments made by ONE person.
> 
> Question: Are you able to recognize your massive hypocrisy?


Question: Why did you agree with me when I previously urged posters to avoid generalizing about Trump supporters?


----------



## new dog

Here is a nice article of pictures showing the difference between the Pro-life and the Pro-Choice rallies. Humble you may recognize a few of your buddies in the pro-choice rally pictures.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...arch-and-march-life-differences-were-stunning


----------



## andrewf

mordko said:


> There was a war and there were strategic military objectives.


So I guess this is another way of saying terrorism can only be perpetrated by non-state actors. Any state would merely be 'waging war'.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Here is a nice article of pictures showing the difference between the Pro-life and the Pro-Choice rallies. Humble you may recognize a few of your buddies in the pro-choice rally pictures.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...arch-and-march-life-differences-were-stunning


A tad selective, don't you think? ZH chose polite images from the March for Life and provocative images from the Women's March on Washington. 

NPR is a more reliable source of information about the March for Life: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...cend-on-d-c-calling-for-end-to-legal-abortion


----------



## mordko

andrewf said:


> So I guess this is another way of saying terrorism can only be perpetrated by non-state actors. Any state would merely be 'waging war'.


No. When Iran bombs a Jewish Center in Argentina during peace time, it's not war and the target has no strategic military value.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> A tad selective, don't you think? ZH chose polite images from the March for Life and provocative images from the Women's March on Washington.


And yet you never complained a single time when the left was selective. Why is that?


----------



## olivaw

mordko said:


> The order doesn't even name the 7 countries. Simply references Obamas law. Clearly you haven't read it. It's not all that long and available from NY Times.


What you think I have read or not read, little bigot, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that:
1) Ethics personnel have questioned the ethics of the ban because they believe that it appears to impact only nations with which Trump does no business while he continues to do business with other Muslim nations. 
2) The ban has been blocked by a Federal Judges in at least four states. 
3) There was chaos. Vacationers have been stranded. Innocent people have been detained. 
4) Initially, Green card holders were barred but the White House changed course. 
5) A number of dual Canadian citizens will be barred from the US (as far as we know). 
6) Protests against the ban continue
7) Angela Merkel's spokesperson said that she explained the Geneva Refugee Convention to Trump
8) The scientific and technology industries are opposed to the ban because it reduces access to top talent. 
9) Trump is now saying that it is not a Muslim ban. 
10) Lawsuits have been filed on behalf of visa holders. 
11) The ban is, IMO, the result of fear mongering about Islam.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> And yet you never complained a single time when the left was selective. Why is that?


So you admit that the ZH article was too selective. Your beef is with me?


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> So you admit that the ZH article was too selective. Your beef is with me?


I don't admit that. The women's march was a gathering of hatred, poor taste, and foul mouthed angry women, not a single one of which are oppressed. Those pics were accurate, but your bias just prevents you from seeing that.


----------



## andrewf

mordko said:


> No. When Iran bombs a Jewish Center in Argentina during peace time, it's not war and the target has no strategic military value.


Dresden was of limited miltary importance. The goal was to kill as many civilians as possible to demoralize the German people.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> I don't admit that. The women's march was a gathering of hatred, poor taste, and foul mouthed angry women, not a single one of which are oppressed. Those pics were accurate, but your bias just prevents you from seeing that.


The difference between us is that I see honour in both marches. You see honour only in the march that you agree with.


----------



## mordko

andrewf said:


> Dresden was of limited miltary importance. The goal was to kill as many civilians as possible to demoralize the German people.


That is a claim that you make. There is no support for the claim. It was technologically possible to kill more than 25,000 people. Dresden was a major railroad/communications hub. There are records showing that Dresden being communications hub was a key factor in selecting the target. Furthermore, military resources (e.g. planes) had to be diverted from other fronts. One can argue whether it was justified but there is no doubt that the bombing of Dresden during WWII is not in any way comparable to the Iranian bombing of a Jewish centre in Argentina. That is a really, really bad parallel to draw.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> The difference between us is that I see honour in both marches. You see honour only in the march that you agree with.


If the women's march didn't have a Sharia loving organizer or a speaker who was imprisoned for the brutal torture and execution of a gay man, then they might be worthy of some respect. The foul language and display of hatred was just the icing on the cake.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> If the women's march didn't have a Sharia loving organizer or a speaker who was imprisoned for the brutal torture and execution of a gay man, then they might be worthy of some respect. The foul language and display of hatred was just the icing on the cake.


*shrug* Some Trump supporters have felony convictions. You don't smear the majority with the actions of the minority, or the one.

We've come full circle. :rugby:


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> *shrug* Some Trump supporters have felony convictions.


The difference is that this person was a featured speaker, not a run of the mill supporter. She kidnapped, tortured, and executed a gay man and was then invited to speak at a march about OPPRESSION.

My point is...what does a Democrat have to do to that will offend another Democrat? Torture and execution was excused. Is buying into the ideology the only thing that matters? Perhaps a couple serial killers for Hillary can speak next year?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> The difference is that this person was a featured speaker, not a run of the mill supporter. She kidnapped, tortured, and executed a gay man and was then invited to speak at a march about OPPRESSION.


Donna Hilton made a tragic choice in 1985 and spent 27 years in prison for her offence. She has redeemed herself. In her own words:


> I speak to make sure the voices of my sisters still behind bars are heard and to let the world know that although they made tragic choices and mistakes, they are not those choices and mistakes forever and neither am I. People can learn and grow and change in the unlikeliest of places and we must acknowledge that. As one of my fellow college students at Bedford said after graduation—“I was able to bloom in a very dark place.”


​
You choose to ignore and condemn 3 million voices because you are unwilling to accept this woman's redemption? 

Amazing Grace.


----------



## bass player

"Hylton, along with three men and three other women, kidnapped 62-year-old real-estate broker Thomas Vigliarole and held him for ransom, before eventually killing him. As noted in a 1995 Psychology Today article, *when asked about forcibly sodomizing the victim with a three foot steel pole, Hylton replied: “He was a **** anyway.
*
Speaking about Hylton, New York City Detective William Spurling told Psychology Today: “I couldn’t believe this girl who was so intelligent and nice-looking could be so unemotional about what she was telling me she and her friends had done. They’d squeezed the victim’s testicles with a pair of pliers, beat him, burned him.””

Let's see...kidnapping, forcible sodomy, torture, and burning. But, at least she didn't comment about grabbing *****


----------



## SMK

Just listen to this "dehumanized" person. Unbelievable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0wztibnmiU


----------



## bass player

The left can't control who shows up, but they certainly can control who they let speak at these events. The fact that they let a deranged sadist be a spokesperson says a lot about their character and values.


----------



## new dog

The left has had the lion share of questionable people, violence and idiots at their marches and protests since before and after the election.


----------



## Nelley

SMK said:


> Just listen to this "dehumanized" person. Unbelievable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0wztibnmiU


The hilarious thing is that the only reason this piece of garbage is walking around loose is specifically because she is female-you don't see Charlie Manson leading marches against Trump.


----------



## none

HaHa!!! You done fucked up Cheeto Hitler!

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...s-donald-trump-muslim-immigration-ban-lawsuit


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> The left has had the lion share of questionable people, violence and idiots at their marches and protests since before and after the election.


Questionable people on both sides, of course. However, the left seems to have a greater share of troublemakers and vandals.

If Trump worries less about the petty things and makes sure that collateral damage is limited...for example regarding the ban, make clear that innocent people will be taken care of and put a fair grace system for a day or so then eventually the protesters will begin to lose their power. People will get sick of the pre-printed "grassroots"  protest signs, the vandalism, the car fires, and the constant blocking of roads and airport terminals while they're trying to go to work. When a few weeks go by and the sky hasn't fallen, then a few of the middle of the road moderates will switch sides and they will likely be lost to the left forever. Others will follow. Trump already got the union leaders on his side...that's huge. Who is next? Anyone with a brain in the Democrat party must know that they are on life support.


----------



## bass player

none said:


> HaHa!!! You done fucked up Cheeto Hitler!
> 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...s-donald-trump-muslim-immigration-ban-lawsuit


Yeah, he's Hitler.

Imagine it's the early 1940's...if a train full of Jews was heading to a concentration camp, I could envision Trump in tears if he was unable to stop it. But, it wouldn't surprise me if Obama and Hillary would have stood there silently while it happened. It wouldn't even surprise me if they would have been the ones behind the trains existence in the first place.

Yes, I'm serious.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Yeah, he's Hitler.
> 
> Imagine it's the early 1940's...if a train full of Jews was heading to a concentration camp, I could envision Trump in tears if he was unable to stop it. But, it wouldn't surprise me if Obama and Hillary would have stood there silently while it happened. It wouldn't even surprise me if they would have been the ones behind the trains existence in the first place.
> 
> Yes, I'm serious.


I think maybe you're projecting.


----------



## none

andrewf said:


> I think maybe you're projecting.


#BURN

Giving the ACLU $100 was the most fun donation I've made in a while. I wouldn't be surprised if it hits 40 million by the end of the week.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> I think maybe you're projecting.


Or, maybe I'm just a good reader of character...


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> "Hylton, along with three men and three other women, kidnapped 62-year-old real-estate broker Thomas Vigliarole and held him for ransom, before eventually killing him. As noted in a 1995 Psychology Today article, *when asked about forcibly sodomizing the victim with a three foot steel pole, Hylton replied: “He was a **** anyway.
> *


Your inability to recognize that Hylton made mistakes, served time and redeemed herself says more about you than it says about her. She wasn't a key speaker, she was just one of many and not the main attraction. 

Mike Pence was the key speaker at the March for life. He believes gays should attend conversion therapy. He passed a religious freedom law in Indiana that allowed businesses to denied service to members of the LGBT community. He does not consider violence against LGBT people to be a hate crime. He was one of only 25 Rs to vote against no child left behind because he is happy to have children left behind. He earns an F on the official NEA legislative report card but an A from the NRA He believes that rape victims should be forced to carry to term He forced so many clinics to close in Indiana that it triggered and HIV epidemic in one country. He supports TPP. 

If you want to talk about nasty people, look no further than smiling Mike Pence. Behind that slick facade lies a dark dark heart.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Or, maybe I'm just a good reader of character...


You're not a good "reader" of character. Donald Trump would be the guy trying to figure out how to make a profit from the trains.


----------



## bass player

Lol...you're comparing a remorseless convicted kidnapper, torturer, sodomizer, and murderer to a pro-life politician.

Shame on you for your warped ideology and refusal to condemn any action committed by someone with the same belief system as you. At least most conservatives have the decency to distance themselves from the nutbars on the right.

People who think like you are a direct threat to both decency and democracy. You are disgusting.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Lol...you're comparing a remorseless convicted kidnapper, torturer, sodomizer, and murderer to a pro-life politician.
> 
> Shame on you for your warped ideology and refusal to condemn any action committed by someone with the same belief system as you. At least most conservatives have the decency to distance themselves from the nutbars on the right.
> 
> People who think like you are a direct threat to both decency and democracy. You are disgusting.


LOL, she is not remorseless. That's the point. It's about redemption and grace. 

There is a lot more to Mike Pence than pro-life. He is anti-LGBT - going so far as to promote conversion therapy. He doesn't consider attacks on gay people to be hate crimes, He cuts funding for public education while making more funds available to private. He is quite happy to allow impoverished children to be left behind (presumably because in his state they are not white). He resists funding for AIDs and HIV research. He's a former conservative talk show host with a slick presentation style.

What you are attempting to do is slander 3 million honourable women by unfairly attacking one or two women and using it to paint all three million as worthy of contempt. It's the same type of dishonest argument that fills those stupid Muslim bashing threads. 

You fill this forum with lies, fake news and trash talk. As soon as somebody challenges your moronic prattle you fall back on personal insult. It's pathetic.


----------



## new dog

Despite all the so called outrage, 49 percent of Americans support the travel ban while 41 percent are against it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ration-refugees-iran-iraq-syria-a7556186.html


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Despite all the so called outrage, 49 percent of Americans support the travel ban while 41 percent are against it.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ration-refugees-iran-iraq-syria-a7556186.html


And the 41% get all the media coverage while the 49% are ignored.

It's simply more fake news from the left...


----------



## sags

According to that poll, most Americans want to ban everyone from those countries,.......Muslim or Christian.

I think "immigration" in America has much more to do about jobs than terrorism or other fears.

People in much of rural America have probably never met a Muslim, and don't spend a lot of time worrying about terrorists blowing up a corn field.


----------



## olivaw

*How to Build an Autocracy*, David Frum talks about propaganda/fake news sites like RT, Breitbart and Infowars and why they are dangerous. 



> By filling the media space with bizarre inventions and brazen denials, purveyors of fake news hope to mobilize potential supporters with righteous wrath—and to demoralize potential opponents by nurturing the idea that everybody lies and nothing matters. A would-be kleptocrat is actually better served by spreading cynicism than by deceiving followers with false beliefs: Believers can be disillusioned; people who expect to hear only lies can hardly complain when a lie is exposed. T*he inculcation of cynicism breaks down the distinction between those forms of media that try their imperfect best to report the truth, and those that purvey falsehoods for reasons of profit or ideology. The New York Times becomes the equivalent of Russia’s RT; The Washington Post of Breitbart; NPR of Infowars.*


----------



## bass player

I look forward to Frum tackling fake news from left such as CNN, CSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc. with the same vigour...


----------



## olivaw

He *did*. 



> On November 27, Trump tweeted that he had in fact “won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.” He followed up that astonishing, and unsubstantiated, statement with an escalating series of tweets and retweets.
> 
> .....
> 
> A clear untruth had suddenly become a contested possibility. *When CNN’s Jeff Zeleny correctly reported on November 28 that Trump’s tweet was baseless, Fox’s Sean Hannity accused Zeleny of media bias*—and then proceeded to urge the incoming Trump administration to take a new tack with the White House press corps, and to punish reporters like Zeleny. “I think it’s time to reevaluate the press and maybe change the traditional relationship with the press and the White House,” Hannity said. “My message tonight to the press is simple: You guys are done. You’ve been exposed as fake, as having an agenda, as colluding. You’re a fake news organization.”


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> *How to Build an Autocracy*, David Frum talks about propaganda/fake news sites like RT, Breitbart and Infowars and why they are dangerous.


LOL-the stupid braindead sheep are too "cynical". Carlos Slim and Jeff Bezos are just "trying their best to report the truth"-SURE.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

From the same "2021" article: _"obscene abuse and angry threats from the pro-Trump troll armies that police Facebook and Twitter. Rather than deal with digital thugs, young people increasingly drift to less political media"_


----------



## bass player

The only obscene and angry people we've seen lately are the crying progressives that can't accept reality. 

And, they won't leave social media...it's become a leftist haven. Fakebook and Twitter are known to censor and delete conservatives on a regular basis. Google also heavily weights their search engine to be left leaning or left supporting.


----------



## olivaw

From the same article



> I’ve talked with well-funded Trump supporters who speak of recruiting a troll army explicitly modeled on those used by Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Russia’s Putin to take control of the social-media space, intimidating some critics and overwhelming others through a blizzard of doubt-casting and misinformation


An example of doubt-casting and misinformation was offered by the previous poster who said "_Google also heavily weights their search engine to be left leaning_". It's untrue, of course, but it will be repeated often.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> An example of doubt-casting and misinformation was offered by the previous poster who said "_Google also heavily weights their search engine to be left leaning_". It's untrue, of course, but it will be repeated often.


It's been proven. And, you can verify it with a simple test. Type in "Hillary crimes" slowly...even after you have "Hillary crime..." typed in without the "s", the top search is "Hillary Crimea" with 534,000 hits, yet Hillary crimes" at 23,800,000 doesn't come up.

How is that not bias?


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> It's been proven. And, you can verify it with a simple test. Type in "Hillary crimes" slowly...even after you have "Hillary crime..." typed in without the "s", the top search is "Hillary Crimea" with 534,000 hits, yet Hillary crimes" at 23,800,000 doesn't come up.
> 
> How is that not bias?


That is a function of the search engine. For an exact search you should surround the inquiry as thus........."inquiry"


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> It's been proven. And, you can verify it with a simple test. Type in "Hillary crimes" slowly...even after you have "Hillary crime..." typed in without the "s", the top search is "Hillary Crimea" with 534,000 hits, yet Hillary crimes" at 23,800,000 doesn't come up.
> 
> How is that not bias?


So what? Same thing happens when you type in Trump Crime slowly. It autocompletes to Trump Crimea. 

David Frum referred to what you were trying to do as *doubt-casting and misinformation*. Some people are paid for that, but I am sure you are an ernest volunteer.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> That is a function of the search engine. For an exact search you should surround the inquiry as thus........."inquiry"


"According to Google:

PageRank works by counting the number and quality of links to a page to determine a rough estimate of how important the website is. The underlying assumption is that more important websites are likely to receive more links from other websites."

Maybe their algorithm is broken if we're expected to believe that "Hillary Crimea" is more important than "Hillary crimes".


----------



## olivaw

"Trump crime" autocompletes to "Trump crimea" instead of "Trump crimes". It's a non story, but one which trolls will repeat to confuse and distract. 

Fake news propaganda sites try to confuse and distract too. They fill the news cycle with random noise. Zero hedge, infowar, Breitbart, RT they don't exist to expand the public pool of information, they exist to shrink it.


----------



## Nelley

olivaw said:


> "Trump crime" autocompletes to "Trump crimea" instead of "Trump crimes". It's a non story, but one which trolls will repeat to confuse and distract.
> 
> Fake news propaganda sites try to confuse and distract too. They fill the news cycle with random noise. Zero hedge, infowar, Breitbart, RT they don't exist to expand the public pool of information, they exist to shrink it.


The reality is that all 4 sources you mention are growing strongly in influence, while you are shrinking. You are losing the Infowar.


----------



## bass player

Don't forget "The Russians hacked the election" and "It's a Muslim ban".


----------



## olivaw

Nelley said:


> The reality is that all 4 sources you mention are growing strongly in influence, while you are shrinking. You are losing the Infowar.


The subscribtion numbers for the fake news sites are embarrassingly low but it is not about subscription numbers. It is about confusing the public. Trump, like all authoritarians, hates being fact checked and challenged by the free press. He cannot ban them (yet) so he does everything he can to undermine them. If that includes throwing the awesome power of the presidency behind junk sites like ZH, RT, Infowars and Breitbart - he will. .


----------



## new dog

Olivaw you may actually like this article from Zero hedge about Trump's tough dealing with Mexico and apparent threat of bringing in the troops to deal with Mexico's bad Hombres.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...end-troops-mexico-stop-bad-hombres-down-there


----------



## humble_pie

marie henein, arguably canada's most powerful female barrister, has logged in against donald trump.

courts deal in facts & evidence, says henein, who stunned a toronto courtroom last year with a killer piece of evidence that shook up canada & saved her client gian ghomeshi from likely jail.




> These [donald trump's] executive orders are nothing more than cheap political theatre. They are certainly not based on evidence. What they do is successfully divide the public through fear and incitement. Crisis politics and populist policies inflame rather than inform. Banning people doesn’t create jobs and doesn’t make us safer. We deserve more than a politically expedient anti-immigrant tweet.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/more-facts-less-extreme-vetting/article33850055/

.


----------



## sags

Great article by Ms. Henein.

I think she would be a great addition to the Supreme Court of Canada when an opening arises.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> I look forward to Frum tackling fake news from left such as CNN, CSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc. with the same vigour...



You do realise Frum is a conservative, right? He was one of G.W. Bush's speechwriters.

The bad journalism on the left (not sure how much of it is really 'fake news' in the equivalent sense) is done by Huffpo and TYT.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> It's been proven. And, you can verify it with a simple test. Type in "Hillary crimes" slowly...even after you have "Hillary crime..." typed in without the "s", the top search is "Hillary Crimea" with 534,000 hits, yet Hillary crimes" at 23,800,000 doesn't come up.
> 
> How is that not bias?


The auto complete algorithm isn't driven by number of results, but by search frequency among other things.

Griping about auto completes in a search engine is pretty weak sauce, anyway.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> "According to Google:
> 
> PageRank works by counting the number and quality of links to a page to determine a rough estimate of how important the website is. The underlying assumption is that more important websites are likely to receive more links from other websites."
> 
> Maybe their algorithm is broken if we're expected to believe that "Hillary Crimea" is more important than "Hillary crimes".


Autocomplete is not the same thing as the search results you get when you execute a search. Pagerank is used in the latter, not the former. Pagerank isn't Google's opinion, it's an algorithm that looks at how all the websites of the internet are connected. Of course, Google search is more complex now that the publicly available description of the pagerank algorithm (they don't patent their search innovations because they would have to reveal how they work).


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> Olivaw you may actually like this article from Zero hedge about Trump's tough dealing with Mexico and apparent threat of bringing in the troops to deal with Mexico's bad Hombres.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...end-troops-mexico-stop-bad-hombres-down-there


Yeah, declaring war on Mexico sounds like a grand idea.


----------



## new dog

Actually Mexico does have some leverage. They could invite the Chinese to build a base there or something.

It all sounds crazy but there must be some kind of strategy behind all this or at least we would hope so.


----------



## new dog

Here is a nice tolerant pre school teacher in a Seattle protest. She swears like crazy, says white people should give everything they own to black and brown people. She says a ton and people cheer her on. This is worse then a white supremacists rally and I am sure the mainstream doesn't care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAjr-Awyp3w


----------



## lonewolf :)

Trump needs to reinstate the fairness doctrine in the media.

Introduced in 1949 that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present conterversal issues of public importance & do so in a manner that was in the Commissions is honest, equitable & balanced. The FCC eliminated the fairness doctrine in 1987. 

This doctrine should be expanded to print media, all news papers. They lose their licence if unbalanced & refuse to stop the propaganda. Freedom of the press is not freedom to report only what they want in the way they want. The media is more interested in hating Trump then reporting news. Its time to clean up the press


----------



## mordko

Here is a man who fabricated not just fake news, but fake cases against soldiers who served in Iraq. A good day for justice. This socialist money-grubbing lawyer has been struck off.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uman-rights-lawyer-phil-shiner-accused-witch/


----------



## new dog

Mordko that is worse then just fake news.


----------



## new dog

Never heard of Milo Yiannopoulos but apparently interest in his new book has sky rocketed because of the Berkeley incident. The left has once again failed miserably in whatever they were trying to do.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-02/berkeley-blowback-milo-book-sales-soar-12740-overnight


----------



## mordko

Headline from CBC:



> French Soldier Shoots Man at Louvre


What actually happened: a suspected Islamic terrorist tried to murder someone at Louvre.

Spinning the news so that it is the exact opposite of the truth is the motto of CBC's. 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/french-soldier-shoots-man-at-louvre-museum-1.3269320


----------



## bass player

It's no different than when Obama decided to call the Fort Hood murders workplace violence. The phrase Muslim extremist will never pass his lips.

When the truth is inconvenient, just reword it to fit the narrative. Illegal aliens have been magically transformed into "undocumented immigrants" which, of course is just as much of a flat out lie as the workplace violence claim that Obama made.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> Never heard of Milo Yiannopoulos but apparently interest in his new book has sky rocketed because of the Berkeley incident. The left has once again failed miserably in whatever they were trying to do.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-02/berkeley-blowback-milo-book-sales-soar-12740-overnight


The leftwing protestors are wrong for trying to prevent Milo from speaking. But the riot was not the same group, the rioters were Antifa, an anti-fascist group. Same people behind the violence at the women's march after the inauguration.

Pin these guys on the left when the right owns the sovereign citizen movement.


----------



## sags

When I was in high school in the US during the Vietnam War, the US military held a "recruitment" rally at the school.

We entered the auditorium to the sound of "The Green Berets" and there were snazzy looking US military, flags and posters all over.

We listened to their recruitment address and they packed up and left.

Immediately following the address, the school brought in a US military veteran who had served in Vietnam.

He told us of the horrors of war, the "life expectancy" of a recruit, and urged us not to join.

I think that was a good way to present both sides at one assembly..........one following the other.


----------



## bass player

You gotta love the fake tears from Schumer. He completely reversed his position from 2015, and added tears for dramatic effect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULkINCDiIA


----------



## mordko

bass player said:


> It's no different than when Obama decided to call the Fort Hood murders workplace violence. The phrase Muslim extremist will never pass his lips.
> 
> When the truth is inconvenient, just reword it to fit the narrative. Illegal aliens have been magically transformed into "undocumented immigrants" which, of course is just as much of a flat out lie as the workplace violence claim that Obama made.


Right. And when Obama talked about the Jewish victims of mass murder in a Kosher shop in Paris, he claimed that "some random folks" got attacked. Of course the target was anything but random, but Islamist antisemitism does not square with the left theology. 

Right now one of the most prominent modern historians is on trial in France for similar reasons: http://hurryupharry.org/2017/01/30/freedom-of-thought-on-trial-in-france/

Naming things accurately is a blasphemy.


----------



## sags

It seems to me that it is often a "student council" or some other campus group that slate these speakers into the university, and then the university is left to clean up the mess afterwards.

Perhaps the student councils and other groups are granted too much authority by the universities.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> It seems to me that it is often a "student council" or some other campus group that slate these speakers into the university, and then the university is left to clean up the mess afterwards.
> 
> Perhaps the student councils and other groups are granted too much authority by the universities.


Yeah, shame on them for inviting a non-leftist speaker. It's entirely their fault that people at the birthplace of free speech became violent when faced with the horror of being exposed to a different viewpoint. In the future, to promote tolerance and safety, only left leaning speakers should be allowed. In addition, perhaps Milo should be jailed.


----------



## Nelley

humble_pie said:


> marie henein, arguably canada's most powerful female barrister, has logged in against donald trump.
> 
> courts deal in facts & evidence, says henein, who stunned a toronto courtroom last year with a killer piece of evidence that shook up canada & saved her client gian ghomeshi from likely jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/more-facts-less-extreme-vetting/article33850055/
> 
> .


It is a good thing the sheep don't remember/realize that Marie Henein would say anything for anyone if the cash was right. Just ask Ghommie.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> It seems to me that it is often a "student council" or some other campus group that slate these speakers into the university, and then the university is left to clean up the mess afterwards.
> 
> Perhaps the student councils and other groups are granted too much authority by the universities.


Sags is right-free speech should never be allowed anywhere, especially at a university. Charge Milo with Hate Crime.


----------



## bass player

Milo's book sales increased over 12,000% immediately following the riots. So, rather than ignoring him and letting him speak to 600 people in a lecture hall, they guaranteed that by their actions many times more people will hear his message.

It's a perfect example of "The Streisand Effect":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect


----------



## new dog

Pluto will love this story from United Nation rep Christianna Figueres who claims climate change is more about destroying capitalism then the environment.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ing-agenda-really-about-destroying-capitalism


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> The leftwing protestors are wrong for trying to prevent Milo from speaking. But the riot was not the same group, the rioters were Antifa, an anti-fascist group. Same people behind the violence at the women's march after the inauguration.
> 
> Pin these guys on the left when the right owns the sovereign citizen movement.


Are you trying to claim that Antifa is from the right?


----------



## andrewf

I'm saying they're extremists, border-line terrorists.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> I'm saying they're extremists, border-line terrorists.


We agree on that. However, you could have said that without bringing up the right. However, that seems to be an impossible task for some...


----------



## andrewf

I'm saying that pinning them on the left is equivalent to pinning extremist right wingers on the broader right. You complained about people calling all GOP voters racist, you're a hypocrite if you apply the same unfairly broad brush to the left.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> I'm saying that pinning them on the left is equivalent to pinning extremist right wingers on the broader right. You complained about people calling all GOP voters racist, you're a hypocrite if you apply the same unfairly broad brush to the left.


The difference is that I'm not hearing anyone on the left demand that these extremists be arrested, or even demand that they stop. They show up at every single protest and loot, start fires, and attack people and most often are not even arrested.

Are they going to be allowed to act like this for the next 4 or 8 years? Every single person in the Democrat party is completely silent while the alt-left continue to do this, yet their heads explode at the mildest comment from someone on the right.


----------



## bass player

Woman claiming to be a university professor has a complete meltdown at Gavin McInnes protest (language warning...  )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJUFHj2yNbI


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> The difference is that I'm not hearing anyone on the left demand that these extremists be arrested, or even demand that they stop. They show up at every single protest and loot, start fires, and attack people and most often are not even arrested.
> 
> Are they going to be allowed to act like this for the next 4 or 8 years? Every single person in the Democrat party is completely silent while the alt-left continue to do this, yet their heads explode at the mildest comment from someone on the right.


Maybe it's because you're not listening. They're all 'fake news', right?


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Maybe it's because you're not listening. They're all 'fake news', right?


Ample evidence has been provided of the fake news and bias by the msm. Did you see the pathetic New York Times headline regarding the Muslim extremist with a machete who attacked guards at the Louvre in Paris (he was shot)??

The previous headline saying "Louvre evacuated after French soldier opens fire" was amended to

"Assailant near Louvre is shot by French soldier"

That's pretty accurate, don't you agree??


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> The difference is that I'm not hearing anyone on the left demand that these extremists be arrested, or even demand that they stop. They show up at every single protest and loot, start fires, and attack people and most often are not even arrested.
> 
> Are they going to be allowed to act like this for the next 4 or 8 years? Every single person in the Democrat party is completely silent while the alt-left continue to do this, yet their heads explode at the mildest comment from someone on the right.




they aren't the left. What you're describing is the Black Bloc. They are anarchists. At a certain point the extreme right & the extreme left meet & fuse. Now we have the Black Bloc. 

bass if you are so anxious for more Black Bloc members to be arrested, why don't you act on the situation yourself? you could contact City Hall, ask for vastly increased police presence 24/7. Contact your provincial & federal elected representatives, demand increased police protection across canada. You could stand willing to pay the increased taxes. 

then there are private extreme right-wing mlitia groups like the Soldiers of Odin. I'm sure they pay for their own guns & gear, had you considered supporting them?

.


----------



## andrewf

My point is that people are saying that anyone engaged in violence should be arrested. But be mindful that peaceful protests are being hijacked. Antifa and anarchists have their own agenda and use larger protests as cover to engage in black bloc tactics that makes it easier for them to behave violently with impunity.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> My point is that people are saying that anyone engaged in violence should be arrested. But be mindful that peaceful protests are being hijacked. Antifa and anarchists have their own agenda and use larger protests as cover to engage in black bloc tactics that makes it easier for them to behave violently with impunity.


As stated, acceptance by tacit approval. No one on the left demands they be arrested, and no one demands that they leave their protest. Cops are either told to stand down, or they are too inept to arrest masked thugs who hang around for hours destroying property and beating people.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> they aren't the left. What you're describing is the Black Bloc. They are anarchists. At a certain point the extreme right & the extreme left meet & fuse. Now we have the Black Bloc.


They are hard left extremists and have nothing to do with the right.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> As stated, acceptance by tacit approval. No one on the left demands they be arrested, and no one demands that they leave their protest. Cops are either told to stand down, or they are too inept to arrest masked thugs who hang around for hours destroying property and beating people.


You're saying "no one is saying". I'm saying you're not listening. There are people on the left saying that the violent actors (obviously not all the protesters) should be arrested.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> They are hard left extremists and have nothing to do with the right.



you've got it backwards. They are far right krypto fascists. Black is their colour for a reason. Nothing to do with the vast majority of centrist moderates.

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> you've got it backwards. They are far right krypto fascists. Black is their colour for a reason. Nothing to do with the vast majority of centrist moderates.


Did you know they took the world "gullible" out of the dictionary?


----------



## new dog

Anything extreme on the right that causes any trouble is all over the news. The left and the media is quite about left extremist unless it must be brought to light. In Europe they sweep any muslim BS under the rug unless they have to expose it.


----------



## bass player

Just imagine how extensive the media coverage of Berkeley would have been had these things been done by the alt-right or white supremacists:

http://www.zombietime.com/milo_berkeley/


----------



## new dog

It would have been the Nazi's all over again if the alt right had done it.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> It would have been the Nazi's all over again if the alt right had done it.


The professional press would strive to report accurately. Alt-right clones would refuse to believe them.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> The professional press would strive to report accurately.


Yeah...just like they do right now


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Yeah...just like they do right now





> Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. Ethical journalism strives to ensure the free exchange of information that is accurate, fair and thorough. An ethical journalist acts with integrity.


The code of conduct for RT and zero hedge is "_Please Putin_".


----------



## bass player

> Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. Ethical journalism strives to ensure the free exchange of information that is accurate, fair and thorough. An ethical journalist acts with integrity.


I just put on CNN for 2 minutes and immediately heard 2 lies:

1. It's a Muslim ban
2. The odds of an American being killed by a terrorist are 1 in 4.6 billion

Where are the professional journalistic ethics?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> I just put on CNN for 2 minutes and immediately heard 2 lies:
> 
> 1. It's a Muslim ban
> 2. The odds of an American being killed by a terrorist are 1 in 4.6 billion
> 
> Where are the professional journalistic ethics?


1. Trump said it was a Muslim ban before he said it wasn't.
2. 1 in *3.6 million* is the CATO Institute's estimate of an American being killed by a foreigner in a terrorist attack. It's referenced on CNN's site.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> I just put on CNN for 2 minutes and immediately heard 2 lies:
> 
> 1. It's a Muslim ban
> 2. The odds of an American being killed by a terrorist are 1 in 4.6 billion
> 
> Where are the professional journalistic ethics?


The Russian Puppet himself called it a Muslim bad, Giuliani said he was asked to "make the Muslim ban legal". It was intended to be as close to a Muslim ban as possible. So that people are calling it colloquially a Muslim ban is by design.


----------



## mordko

The Louvre terrorist arrived to France on a tourist visa. He didn't actually manage to murder anyone (not for the lack of trying), but it's another blow to the French tourist industry. Previous terrorist attacks in France resulted in a ~15% drop in the number of reservations in Paris hotels. Attacks are inflicting major economic damage and increasing the chances of Le Pen's victory. 

http://www.thelocal.fr/20170203/paris-fears-fallout-after-louvre-machete-attack
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/business/international/europe-economy-gdp-terrorism.html


----------



## bass player

More fake news from CNN...we have no proof, but, let's blame the Berkeley riots on right wingers anyway!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q14Ujm0PYbE


----------



## bass player

Google has now decided to change the definition of the word fascist to fit the progressive agenda. According to google, the definition of fascist is now: "an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization". This is a tactic the left does on a regular basis...they change the meaning of words to suit their ideology. Sadly, those on the left will immediately accept the new definition without question.

Illegal aliens are now "undocumented immigrants".
Fascists can now only be right wing people.

As stated in 1984: “When we use a*word,” Google said in rather a scornful tone, “it*means*just what we*choose*it to*mean*— neither more nor less.”


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> As stated in 1984: “When we use a*word,” Google said in rather a scornful tone, “it*means*just what we*choose*it to*mean*— neither more nor less.”



were you meaning 1984 the George Orwell novel?

actually the source of that quote is the Red Queen in alice in wonderland.

with uncanny foresight, the auld monarch also added a dictum for future internet fascist trolls. "Don't twiddle your fingers," she instructed alice.

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> were you meaning 1984 the George Orwell novel?
> 
> actually the source of that quote is the Red Queen in alice in wonderland.
> 
> with uncanny foresight, the auld monarch also added a dictum for future internet fascist trolls. "Don't twiddle your fingers," she instructed alice.
> 
> .


Well, of course you would decide to nitpick the source of the quote rather than deal with the real issue...google deciding to change the meaning of a word to fit the progressive agenda.

I doubt you would remain silent if the definition of the word "racist" was changed to "a word used by the left in order to silence those with opposing viewpoints"...


----------



## wraphter

humble_pie said:


> were you meaning 1984 the George Orwell novel?
> 
> actually the source of that quote is the Red Queen in alice in wonderland.
> 
> with uncanny foresight, the auld monarch also added a dictum for future internet fascist trolls. "Don't twiddle your fingers," she instructed alice.
> 
> .


I think it's Humpty Dumpty ,hp.eaceful:

http://www.bartleby.com/73/2019.html



> AUTHOR:	Lewis Carroll (1832–98)
> QUOTATION:	“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
> ATTRIBUTION:	LEWIS CARROLL (Charles L. Dodgson), Through the Looking-Glass, chapter 6, p. 205 (1934). First published in 1872.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Well, of course you would decide to nitpick the source of the quote rather than deal with the real issue...google deciding to change the meaning of a word to fit the progressive agenda.
> 
> I doubt you would remain silent if the definition of the word "racist" was changed to "a word used by the left in order to silence those with opposing viewpoints"...




only a twit like the basster would try to nitpick the Alice knitting ...

please don't even _dream_ about what you think i might do over definitions ...

PS google didn't change anything. A fascist has always been a far-right ideologue


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> PS google didn't change anything. A fascist has always been a far-right ideologue


According to Merriam Webster:

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

Sure sounds like leftist politics to me...dictator-like Obama ruled by Executive Order (13 consecutive orders were overturned by the Supreme Court), the attempt to silence non-progressives, and onerous social and economic policies. SJW's routinely shout down and try to silence opposing viewpoints...Berkeley the other day is a perfect example.

The left practices fascism, the right doesn't.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> According to Merriam Webster:
> 
> "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"




describes trump & bass to a *T* .each:

.


----------



## Nelley

The Dem presidential nominee circa 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNXMOxBbt6g


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> According to Merriam Webster:
> 
> "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"
> 
> Sure sounds like leftist politics to me...dictator-like Obama ruled by Executive Order (13 consecutive orders were overturned by the Supreme Court), the attempt to silence non-progressives, and onerous social and economic policies. SJW's routinely shout down and try to silence opposing viewpoints...Berkeley the other day is a perfect example.
> 
> The left practices fascism, the right doesn't.


Neither left nor right has a monopoly on authoritarianism.


----------



## new dog

This is on the new media cycle on the Trump interview on FOX and killer Putin.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ional-tv-do-you-think-our-country-so-innocent

Of course Putin is a killer but Trump was dead on saying our sh-t does stink also. The US and Russia have been brutal killers in the world for a long time for sure.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Sure sounds like leftist politics to me...dictator-like Obama ruled by Executive Order (13 consecutive orders were overturned by the Supreme Court)



we've already gone over this. The above remark is false. It's a fiction. A lie. Another bloomin' fairy tale from bass truly.

there were 13 minor executive orders of which 9 (nine) belonged to Dubya Bush, not to barack obama.. 

they were not overturned by the supreme court. The court merely issued reproaches for having exceeded presidential authority.

bass failed to read the Politifact article whose link he used to invent the above fake news. The article described how 2 constitutional law experts from leading law schools disagreed with the supreme court reproach on one of the obama issues. The experts sided with barack.

the case was launched by republican representative Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) as what may have been an action of petty vengeance.

incredibly, bass tried to claim that the above routine non-story constitutes proof of how barack obama "lied" to American people and "broke the laws" of the United States. He has no other evidence to back up these preposterous accusations. 

.


----------



## sags

Nelley said:


> The Dem presidential nominee circa 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNXMOxBbt6g


Nope..........it will be Bernie Sanders in 2020.

The Democrats are energized by the Trump victory and they are the party to whom "draining the swamp" doesn't mean appointing billionaires, Wall Street bankers, and people who want to destroy what generations of Americans before them have built with their blood, sweat and tears.

Don't touch our healthcare.....warn Trump supporters in the Rust Belt states to Trump.

Don't ban immigrants......warn Trump supporters in the Rust Belt states to Trump.

Forget about the wall.....warn Trump supporters in the Rust Belt states to Trump.

Go get the jobs you promised to the Rust Belt states and leave everything else alone....say Trump supporters to Trump.

Trump has buried the Republican legislatures under a mountain of huge items to deal with, and time constraints will mean only a couple of agenda items get passed into law. Repealing Obamacare and tax reform will take up most of Trump's first mandate.

The Trump election victory has lit the fuse under Americans and the run up to 2020 is only 3 years away.

Sanders is already in campaign mode and is building more support than he has ever had.

Elizabeth Warren shares Sander's views and would be the ideal running mate.

Feel the Bern............


----------



## new dog

The left has really lost it trying to bind white supremacy to the Patriots. The Super bowl has nothing to do with Trump or white supremacists but the left is putting them together.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-after-new-england-patriot-super-bowl-victory


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> The left has really lost it trying to bind white supremacy to the Patriots. The Super bowl has nothing to do with Trump or white supremacists but the left is putting them together.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-after-new-england-patriot-super-bowl-victory


Almost like satire-the left has a simple message now-WHITE MAN BAD-that is it-no discussion, no debate.


----------



## new dog

What is even funnier is white people lining up to be labelled by the left. They join rallies to condemn themselves, it boggles the mind. If you are supposed to be all inclusive and they start to condemn any race or group including white, as a good left person, you should walk away and say I didn't sign up for this, if you have a brain.

This should go for woman as well when they are marching. Once the group starts to say we would like to import women haters and beaters as part of being inclusive, then you should walk away if you are a women with a brain.


----------



## bass player

The more that ridiculous claims that are made, the more support the left loses. Every single action by Trump, good or bad is loudly criticized. Universities are in full attack mode and will riot if an invited speaker who doesn't lean left. Some of the shrieking moonbats even tried to call Milo a homophobe and/or a white nationalist, even though he proudly announces that he is gay and dates black men.

The left no longer cares about individual rights...it's about gender politics and who can be the most oppressed. This video sums it up nicely. Dave Rubin, who used to be a progressive has now changes sides. I'm sure that there are millions of progressives that share his opinion. People that move from the left to the right will rarely go back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVQ8vrGA_8


----------



## bass player

David Duke announced that he supported Trump and even thought Trump disavowed him several times, heads exploded on the left. The fact that Duke was on Trump's side was enough for them to call Trump a racist.

Yet, when a woman who publicly supports Sharia law was involved in the women's march, NO ONE on the left cared, and no one dared to criticize her position. Hypocrisy at its finest...


----------



## olivaw

Apparently Trump is mad that a woman played and mocked Sean Spicer on SNL. He's ready to replace Spicer.

Rosy O'Donnell says she is open to playing Steve Bannon on SNL. :tickled_pink:

Fake news?


----------



## new dog

No olivaw that is funny news, not fake news. SNL is hilarious, especially when someone is ticked off by it, like the US president. I think it would be SNL that would be upset and disappointed, if the president didn't tweet his displeasure because then SNL may feel their skit wasn't actually funny.


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> This should go for woman as well when they are marching


women




> ... you should walk away if you are a women with a brain.


woman

.


----------



## humble_pie

as of 6 february/17, the toronto Star's washington correspondent Daniel Dale, who's keeping a list of donald trump's most flagrant lies while in office as US president, had upped his tally to 42.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/02/03/daniel-dales-donald-trump-fact-check-updates.html

that's 42 major policy lies. For a president who'd only been in office 17 days.


.


----------



## new dog

Here is one from zerohedge that you would like humble and this time I am not joking. It refers to an unstable president being responsible for why there are so many White House leaks. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...house-leaks-reportedly-reveal-trump-team-turm


----------



## sags

Every time Trump gives a speech.........if that is what his thoughtless meanderings could be called, he shows how unfit he is for the job.

Wandering off topic into never never land, he seems to be bursting at the seams to reveal the "inside" information that he has been given in security briefings. World leaders who have talked with him question his sanity.

Trump is a loose cannon and everybody in Washington knows it. 

Making excuses for him because he is a "different" kind of President doesn't cut it anymore.

The damage is starting to stack up in the corner.

They are all trying to figure out a way to get rid of him before he causes damage that can't be repaired.


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> Here is one from zerohedge that you would like humble and this time I am not joking. It refers to an unstable president being responsible for why there are so many White House leaks.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...house-leaks-reportedly-reveal-trump-team-turm



newdogcom how you do keep trying to serve up stale dried-up appetizers left over from zerohedge on here!

idk, this is what stock pumps so, except that pumps get paid per drop. Surely they are not paying you to pump zerohedge in cmf forum?

i mean, i would have thought the auld dog would have had more dignity than that ... each:


.


----------



## sags

It has been revealed the atrocities that Assad is committing in Syria in their largest prison.

Torture, deprivation and the hanging of 1300 people in what is described as a "human slaughterhouse", is what Assad offers to his people.

And yet, Putin supports Assad and Trump supports Putin.


----------



## humble_pie

sags said:


> It has been revealed the atrocities that Assad is committing in Syria in their largest prison.
> 
> Torture, deprivation and the hanging of 1300 people in what is described as a "human slaughterhouse", is what Assad offers to his people.
> 
> And yet, Putin supports Assad and Trump supports Putin.



sags u have forgotten what newdogcom said just the other day.

he said the Syrian people love their leader bashar al-Assad & they totally support the russian bombing campaign & they can't wait for russian bombs to kill all the rebels & restore the country back to "normal."

that's what newdog told us. Mind you, newdog has never set foot in syria in his lifetime. Nor in europe either, for that matter.

.


----------



## new dog

I wonder what the west should do about Assad humble?

1. Regime change has gone so well in the middle east so they could do that.

2. Another bonus would be to create more refugees so Canada can get its fill of them, which is a goal of yours.

3. Lastly the US can stock up ISIS and Al-Qaeda again in its bid to get rid of Assad.

It is a win, win wouldn't you think Humble.


----------



## new dog

new dog said:


> Here is one from zerohedge that you would like humble and this time I am not joking. It refers to an unstable president being responsible for why there are so many White House leaks.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...house-leaks-reportedly-reveal-trump-team-turm


This article is served up for a person on the hard alt-left such as yourself Humble. The right reply is something like,"for once I agree with Zerohedge" saying that Trump is unstable and that is one reason for there being so many White House leaks.

I sure hope your buddies marching for less rights for woman and a return to Sharia law, don't read this Humble.


----------



## new dog

Here is Flemish Father Daniel Maes who lives in Syria and says the media coverage of Syria is all lies.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-08/media-coverage-syria-biggest-media-lie-our-time

He lives there, we don't, so it may or may not be true just like all of the media coverage.


----------



## andrewf

olivaw said:


> Apparently Trump is mad that a woman played and mocked Sean Spicer on SNL. He's ready to replace Spicer.
> 
> Rosy O'Donnell says she is open to playing Steve Bannon on SNL. :tickled_pink:
> 
> Fake news?


I was thinking the Russian Puppet would replace Spicer because of how easily mocked he is. He is so thin-skinned and cannot stand being mocked. He had to be managed pretty extensive in preparation for his Comedy Central roast because he is so unable to take mockery or criticism in stride. 

O'Donnell playing Bannon would be just perfect.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> David Duke announced that he supported Trump and even thought Trump disavowed him several times, heads exploded on the left. The fact that Duke was on Trump's side was enough for them to call Trump a racist.
> 
> Yet, when a woman who publicly supports Sharia law was involved in the women's march, NO ONE on the left cared, and no one dared to criticize her position. Hypocrisy at its finest...


Remember, before disavowing Duke he very coyly and deliberately didn't disavow him, even when repeatedly asked, wink wink nudge nudge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9rzi5vRpvE


----------



## lonewolf :)

new dog;1461586
I sure hope your buddies marching for less rights for woman and a return to Sharia law said:


> I don't get what the women are marching for. In Europe they turned their men into women. Then on you tube you see women marching wanting to let the alpha males Moslems into their country. The alpha males come in rape the women.


----------



## new dog

As long as they are the project of the left all rapes and attacks are not so bad. The media also does cover up these crimes so the public doesn't catch on to what a disaster this is.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> As long as they are the project of the left all rapes and attacks are not so bad. The media also does cover up these crimes so the public doesn't catch on to what a disaster this is.


Cast aside your worries new dog. The average person on the left doesn't endorse rape. The professional press doesn't cover up crimes.


----------



## olivaw

lonewolf :) said:


> I don't get what the women are marching for. In Europe they turned their men into women. Then on you tube you see women marching wanting to let the alpha males Moslems into their country. The alpha males come in rape the women.


They are marching for minority rights, women's rights, equality and personal freedom. It took the election of a man like Trump to galvanize them into action. They are sending a message to Trump and the GOP that their agenda will not go unchallenged. It's free speech in action and it is beautiful.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> They are marching for minority rights, women's rights, equality and personal freedom. It took the election of a man like Trump to galvanize them into action. They are sending a message to Trump and the GOP that their agenda will not go unchallenged. It's free speech in action and it is beautiful.


Minority rights, women's rights, equality, and freedom already exist in Canada and the US. There is absolutely nothing in Trump's agenda that threatens any of the above.

And before you say it...protecting a country's border does not infringe on anyone's rights. Maybe you're not aware, but the fact is that no one has a right to enter a country illegally. There is no such thing as an "undocumented immigrant", no matter how many times the left continue to use that term to soften the message.

The correct term for people who illegally crossed a border is "illegal alien".


----------



## new dog

I agree bass, since when is stopping illegal immigration and protecting the border a bad thing.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> I agree bass, since when is stopping illegal immigration and protecting the border a bad thing.


Many on the left think that borders shouldn't exist...we're all just one big happy planet and people should be able to come and go as they please.

People protesting the temporary travel ban from 7 terrorist countries, but not a single one of them would take any of the people they demand being let into the country into their own home:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSvXCVoeMjQ


----------



## new dog

Of course not because many are living for free have no room in their home and if they did have room they would still demand someone else take them in. 

I was just listening to Jim Rogers who lives in Singapore. He says Singapore is very open to immigration but there is no welfare and freebies. So you need to show up with skills or be something if you want to live in Singapore.


----------



## wraphter

bass player said:


> Many on the left think that borders shouldn't exist...we're all just one big happy planet and people should be able to come and go as they please.


Yes,this is true. The theme song of the one worlders could be "Imagine" by John Lennon.



> Imagine there's no heaven
> It's easy if you try
> No hell below us
> Above us only sky
> Imagine all the people
> Living for today... Aha-ah...
> 
> Imagine there's no countries
> It isn't hard to do
> Nothing to kill or die for
> And no religion, too
> Imagine all the people
> Living life in peace... You...
> 
> You may say I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope someday you'll join us
> And the world will be as one
> 
> Imagine no possessions
> I wonder if you can
> No need for greed or hunger
> A brotherhood of man
> Imagine all the people
> Sharing all the world... You...
> 
> You may say I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope someday you'll join us
> And the world will live as one


They want to do away with countries and the religion which binds the individuals together.
They want to do away with 'othering',describing people as different from your group.

it happens that we are in an era where nationalism is on the rise and globalism is in decline.
But they dream on.


----------



## new dog

I like this article even if it is on Zerohedge that Trump is playing a game of chess designed to out the left.

The article claims that Trump has removed the Queen being the MSM but is being bogged down by a wall of pawns wasting time as in the court challenges. Also he is being slowed by only having 5 of his 15 cabinet picks confirmed.

He has played of game of presenting one outrage after another so his opponent will make the obvious move and responce.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-09/trumps-game-chess


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> Neither left nor right has a monopoly on authoritarianism.


That's very true. That's why I'm a small government person.
I don't trust the next government will be as trustworthy as the current.

I'm truly terrified that the government will form some sort of "fake news" authority to stop anything they disagree with. I don't want them to have that power.

They actually have bills, passing in the house now that have false and misleading info in the preamble. If Parliment is going to okay falsehoods for political gain, I don't want anyone to have that power.

As a thought experiment, when someone proposes a law that gives the government a power, ask yourself if you'll be okay with the next PM has that power. 
The Democrats gave Obama a LOT of power, and the Republicans warned them, now Trump has all that power.

So if you think Trudeau should be a dictator, ask yourself if you'll be just as happy with Kevin OLeary with that power, if not, the PM shouldn't have it.
FWIW, I sure hope and don't think O'Leary will win, but he's a scary candidate , particularly since we don't have the US system of checks and balances.


----------



## mordko

A superb little article by Nervana Mahmoud, who does an excellent job of debunking fake news about Islam from the New York Times. 

Isn't it wonderful how western liberal publications align themselves with the least liberal ideologies in the whole wide world just to score cheap political points against the equally f-d up administration?

https://nervana1.org/2017/02/11/the-new-york-times-and-the-muslim-brotherhood/


----------



## new dog

Here is a female pilot that scared off the passengers on a United Flight. At least we find out she is neutral and apparently didn't vote for either Trump or Hillary but everyone here can see this one is very bizarre.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...sturbed-pilot-goes-bizarre-trump-clinton-rant


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> I like this article even if it is on Zerohedge that Trump is playing a game of chess designed to out the left.


Trump isn't playing chess. He isn't even playing checkers. He's playing _pin the tail on the donkey_ and he keeps stabbing his own eye.


----------



## mordko

What comes first? Reading Zerohedge fries brains or brain-fried people tend to read Zerohedge?


----------



## mordko

This Islamic Studies professor from Georgetown University justifies rape and slavery using sophistry. http://thedailybanter.com/2017/02/i...hether-rape-and-slavery-are-wrong-it-depends/

Unsurprisingly Pro-Trump websites are all over this outrageous and disgusting idiocy. Meanwhile liberal sources are completely silent. Because he is left and defends Islamists. It's about time we redefine the word "liberal".


----------



## new dog

Zerohedge, Info-Wars, CNN and other sites are posted here in this thread because they are possibly or partly fake news. This is what this thread is partly about and the other reason is because Fake News is the big item everyone is talking about lately. Olivaw seems to get it, others I am not so sure.


----------



## mordko

Except that you don't list Zerohedge, Info-Wars and CNN in the same sentence. And not because I like CNN. Alchemy, Astrology and Chemistry contain errors => fake news in itself.


----------



## new dog

What is more dangerous then a possible white supremacist you can see coming a mile away is the agenda from the left that most people don't see coming. The left has all its extremely dangerous baggage hidden behind their so called tolerant message. It is sort of like the NDP promising the moon and getting everyone out of poverty but being silent on what kind of debt and taxes they will create as well as red tape for businesses and on and on.


----------



## humble_pie

mordko said:


> A superb little article by Nervana Mahmoud, who does an excellent job of debunking fake news about Islam from the New York Times.
> 
> https://nervana1.org/2017/02/11/the-new-york-times-and-the-muslim-brotherhood/




another typical crock from mordko.

author Mahmoud is not debunking *fake news about Islam from the New York Times* or from any other source.

what she is doing is stating her _opinion_, that her assessment of the Muslim Brotherhood does not agree with the _opinion_ of the same as stated by the NY Times in an editorial.

note: the NYT wrote an editorial about the Brotherhood. Editorials are always opinion pieces. For hundreds of years, editorials & op-ed pieces have been opinion pieces. Is there something wrong with the mordko, that somehow he is unable to grasp this?

what's impeccably fair about the NY Times is that they deliberately recruited an author of Mahmoud's stature to write a piece which they knew would criticize their own editorial. Then they had the courage to publish her article. Thumbs up for impartial NY Times journalism!

.


----------



## new dog

mordko said:


> Except that you don't list Zerohedge, Info-Wars and CNN in the same sentence. And not because I like CNN. Alchemy, Astrology and Chemistry contain errors => fake news in itself.



From what I have seen on these news sites I think I can put them in the same sentence. However CNN does have the budget and can produce a better broadcast and be in more locations on the ground then most others can.


----------



## mordko

> The New York Times in its defence of the Muslim Brotherhood, could be likened to a lawyer who bases his defense on improper legal procedures rather than the client’s actual guilt.





> It not only desperately defends a secretive group like the Muslim Brotherhood





> It is baffling to see the New York Times, among others, defend a group that still uses two swords as part of its logo (on its Arabic sites), refuses to disown the intellectual godfather of radical Islam, Sayed Qutb and declines to fire any of its members who flirt with violence in Arabic posts, then condemn it in English ones.


Yep, Nervana is debunking NYT's fake news that the Brotherhood "renounced violence". 



> what's impeccably fair about the NY Times is that they deliberately recruited an author of Mahmoud's stature to write a piece which they knew would criticize their own editorial. Then they had the courage to publish her article.


Where???


----------



## humble_pie

mordko said:


> _" what's impeccably fair about the NY Times is that they deliberately recruited an author of Mahmoud's stature to write a piece which they knew would criticize their own editorial. Then they had the courage to publish her article."
> _
> Where???



where?

how could you ask such a thing

it's transparently evident to everybody except mordko "where" the New York Times has had the courage to invite a leading critic to create a rebuttal, then had the courage to publish her article ...

something gone wrong in the reading comprehension department, mordko?

.


----------



## new dog

This Grammy dress by Joy Villa is all over the news apparently her political statement has raised her music career. Apparently her sales have gone up 54 million percent on Amazon. I used the Info Wars link because it was the one I found that mentions this big of an increase in sales. True or not she really must be doing pretty well off this dress. Apparently the tolerant left from what I hear are making comments like she should die as well as racist comments as well.


http://www.infowars.com/maga-dress-girl-dominating-charts-after-54-million-percent-sales-increase/


----------



## new dog

On this one I am interested on what you guys think United is going to do with this pilot after her rant. It is all over the news but it is something to see.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2844920/trump-clinton-united-airlines-pilot-rant/

My thinking is United will evaluate her and then get her help. They will wait until after she is helped and then give her a package to leave. I don't think they can fire her but I know they can never let her fly again. She is a danger to the company and their customers.


----------



## sags

Her flying career is over.

She obviously has mental issues, which could be related to the stress of divorce.........but the reason doesn't matter. 

My wife was driving on a 4 lane highway when a woman drove her car across the 4 lanes and into the traffic from a parking lot.

My wife was hit on the front of the car. The woman got out and was confused, emotional and somewhere dazed.

She said she had just been told by cellphone that her husband was leaving her for another woman.

Stress can be overwhelming.


----------



## sags

As to the singer at the Grammy Awards, I am not one who cares what celebrities think............one way or the other.

I don't find SNL skits on Trump particularly funny either. The subject matter is just too serious to laugh at.

I do find Dame Edna's take on things hilarious though.


----------



## new dog

I love SNL so we differ there. 

The singer story was interesting because of the left reaction and the amount her music sales have gone up.

Tough going for the pilot for sure I feel for her. Her career as a pilot is over but United has to be careful how they handle her. I am sure there is a process here and it will end up in some kind of package she will sign I would think.


----------



## bass player

David Duke has now endorsed Keith Ellison for chairman of the DNC. Where is the media outrage?


----------



## sags

Too busy...........leaks and firings coming out of the White House like Niagara Falls.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Too busy...........leaks and firings coming out of the White House like Niagara Falls.


Too busy...leftist code for "selective outrage"


----------



## sags

Yes, the media is going to drive Trump out and save the world.


----------



## SMK

The media makes and breaks you, so far they did a good job making DJT.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> I love SNL so we differ there.
> 
> The singer story was interesting because of the left reaction and the amount her music sales have gone up.
> 
> Tough going for the pilot for sure I feel for her. Her career as a pilot is over but United has to be careful how they handle her. I am sure there is a process here and it will end up in some kind of package she will sign I would think.


If the story about the singer is accurate then the abuse is inappropriate. Why do I get the feeling that she is engaged in a publicity stunt? 

I hope that the pilot's career is not over. She suffered a mental breakdown brought on by divorce and stress. She deserves leave to deal with her illness/wounds and the chance to return to work when healed.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> The media makes and breaks you, so far they did a good job making DJT.


Their goal was to make him the front runner and then destroy him in order to clear a path for Hillary. They failed miserably at the second part of the plan...


----------



## bass player

Like him or not, Bill Reilly calls out the media as the dishonest liars that they really are. The sad thing is that too many people on the left still blindly believe anything that they are told because it fits their ideology. Facts are irrelevant to progressives:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5322198152001/?#sp=show-clips


----------



## bass player

More fake news from MSNBC. This comment is mind boggling, but sadly, par for the course from the fake news left. How mentally deficient does one have to be to take this seriously??:

"The first is we have never taken seriously from the very beginning Russia hacked our election. That was a 9/11 scale event. They attacked the core of our very democracy. That was a Pearl Harbor scale event:

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017...a-hacking-was-on-scale-with-911-pearl-harbor/

Yes, it's Breitbart, but the video is from MSNBC.


----------



## SMK

new dog said:


> I love SNL


Not the same without Tina Fey. Remember the Sarah Palin sketches?  

Palin being considered as ambassador to Ottawa, or is it fake news? Alberta would welcome her with open arms.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Like him or not, Bill Reilly calls out the media as the dishonest liars that they really are. The sad thing is that too many people on the left still blindly believe anything that they are told because it fits their ideology. Facts are irrelevant to progressives:
> 
> http://video.foxnews.com/v/5322198152001/?#sp=show-clips


How old are you bass? I thought Bill's audience was mostly the wrinklies. The *average* age of his audience is 72 years old.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> How old are you bass? I thought Bill's audience was mostly the wrinklies. The *average* age of his audience is 72 years old.


I guess I'm almost 20 years too young then. I never watch him...a friend sent me the link.


----------



## sags

Bill O'Reilly needs to get up to speed. All that is happening in the world and he devotes his air time to cranking on about the media ?


----------



## sags

Is it fake news that Russia tested cruise missile illegally, or have a spy ship wandering down the East coast of the US ?


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Bill O'Reilly needs to get up to speed. All that is happening in the world and he devotes his air time to cranking on about the media ?


So, Bill is wasting time reporting on media lies because important things are going on, but the when the media lies it's not a waste of time?

You gotta love the warped reasoning that comes up with that


----------



## new dog

bass player said:


> More fake news from MSNBC. This comment is mind boggling, but sadly, par for the course from the fake news left. How mentally deficient does one have to be to take this seriously??:
> 
> "The first is we have never taken seriously from the very beginning Russia hacked our election. That was a 9/11 scale event. They attacked the core of our very democracy. That was a Pearl Harbor scale event:
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017...a-hacking-was-on-scale-with-911-pearl-harbor/
> 
> Yes, it's Breitbart, but the video is from MSNBC.


Of course it was on scale of 9/11 because it is about Trump.


----------



## new dog

How about the French riots. Sure the police did a bad thing but when those guys do bad things they don't report it or cover it up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d8f3fc9c0ed_story.html?utm_term=.b263a52c7bce

Europe is a mess and its because of migrants.

Then there an info-wars link that tells us the riots are in no go areas which are 33 percent muslim.

http://www.infowars.com/paris-erupt...ts-are-no-go-zones-as-five-suburbs-in-flames/


----------



## sags

Bill O'Reilly finally got the memo about the Flynn situation.

He says Trump needs better public relations. Well, no s++t Sherlock......go lay down again.

Meanwhile during a nice dinner in his Florida resort, Trump receives a security briefing on North Korea right in front of all the guests.

Then one of the guests poses for a picture with the guy who carries the briefcase of nuclear codes wherever the President goes.

Ya...that's right...a selfie of "that" guy and then he posts it on Facebook. It was taken down, but it is all over the internet now.

Hokey Doodle.............why bother with fake news when Trump is capable of this level of incompetence.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> How about the French riots.


The only response from the left regarding the riots is: "We need to bring more of these people to our country!!"

And then THEY riot if it doesn't happen...


----------



## sags

Americans could have had a calm government transition and a steady hand on the wheel........but they decided emails were more important.


----------



## bass player

Small consolation, but if the extremists ever take over then at least the snowflakes on the left will be the first victims. The low hanging fruit always gets picked first...although a lot of them will submit willingly, and will only realize once it's too late what most people already knew all along.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Americans could have had a calm government transition and a steady hand on the wheel........but they decided emails were more important.


Yeah, people who would have voted for Hillary chose to vote for Trump just because of a few emails.   

Them and all the others who the Russians convinced to change their vote...


----------



## sags

Trump to General Flynn.......I have utmost confidence in you. You can be assured I have your back. Now give me your resignation.


----------



## sags

Kellyanne Conway to the media...........I have no idea what President Trump thinks. I am just speaking on his behalf.


----------



## sags

Republicans to the media and Americans.......It isn't Trump's fault the illegal activity was reported. Blame whoever leaked the truth.


----------



## sags

Breitbart to staff........We have to lay you all off. We can't compete on fake news with Donald Trump.


----------



## new dog

The difference between Trump, Obama and Hillary who was there with Obama is Trump gets no slack. Everything is reported about what Trump or his team does and sent through the ringer. If he so much as coughs it is almost a scandal or something.

Obama and Hillary did many terrible things that should have been grilled and reported but they get a pass. If Trump was supplying ISIS and other groups like this like Obama did whether directly or indirectly the media would have gone crazy and demanded for heads to roll. The media was also supportive of anything Obama did and sold it to the public whether it was right or wrong.

If Flynn was on Obama's team and did what he did the media would have sold it as a necessary thing he needed to do or something and all would be forgotten.


----------



## sags

Obama wasn't ever accused of making googly eyes with Putin.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> The difference between Trump, Obama and Hillary who was there with Obama is Trump gets no slack. Everything is reported about what Trump or his team does and sent through the ringer. If he so much as coughs it is almost a scandal or something.
> 
> Obama and Hillary did many terrible things that should have been grilled and reported but they get a pass. If Trump was supplying ISIS and other groups like this like Obama did whether directly or indirectly the media would have gone crazy and demanded for heads to roll. The media was also supportive of anything Obama did and sold it to the public whether it was right or wrong.
> 
> If Flynn was on Obama's team and did what he did the media would have sold it as a necessary thing he needed to do or something and all would be forgotten.


So Obama and Trump are basically the same, except the media is hard on Trump?

I must have missed Obama's failure to disclose is financial interests, to place his holdings in a blind trust, and to nominate a cabinet full of incompetents.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> The difference between Trump, Obama and Hillary who was there with Obama is Trump gets no slack. Everything is reported about what Trump or his team does and sent through the ringer. If he so much as coughs it is almost a scandal or something.


It's not that Trump is getting no slack. It is that senior White House staffers and security personnel are feeding WaPo and NY Times information about the back room deals between the Trump team and the Russians. Journalists are not manufacturing the news, they are reporting it.


----------



## james4beach

This is a really good episode from John Oliver. If nothing else, watch from 7:20 onwards. *"Where is [Trump's] information coming from?"*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecEV4dSAXE


----------



## new dog

olivaw said:


> If the story about the singer is accurate then the abuse is inappropriate. Why do I get the feeling that she is engaged in a publicity stunt?
> 
> I hope that the pilot's career is not over. She suffered a mental breakdown brought on by divorce and stress. She deserves leave to deal with her illness/wounds and the chance to return to work when healed.


It would be nice if it happened this way but I don't think it is possible.

There are a lot of smart people on this forum since it is a financial forum who could speak to this. I would think because of the risks, there is no way United would let her fly again.


----------



## new dog

On the other stuff we had ISIS being supplied, the mess created in the middle east, the refugees and the failure in Syria to name a few. There is no way the media would let Trump live this down if he was in charge of this nightmare. 

Obama doesn't get any bad press on this. They talk about it but there is no bad press towards Obama. The world is reported in the way the owners of the media and higher ups want you to see it.


----------



## wraphter

new dog said:


> On the other stuff we had ISIS being supplied,


Where did Obama supply ISIS? He took American troops out of Iraqtoo soon which allowed ISIS to emerge ,but he never supplied it.


----------



## bgc_fan

wraphter said:


> Where did Obama supply ISIS? He took American troops out of Iraqtoo soon which allowed ISIS to emerge ,but he never supplied it.


Well there are some who believe he created ISIS. Or they extrapolate the fact that the US supplied the Iraqi army who fled when encountering ISIS and left behind their equipment.

As for leaving Iraq early, it has been pointed out that the schedule for the draw down of forces was made by Bush in agreement with Iraq and unless the US wanted to occupy Iraq against Iraq's wishes, soldiers were to be subject to Iraqi laws and risk being charged for "crimes".


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> So Obama and Trump are basically the same, except the media is hard on Trump?
> 
> I must have missed Obama's failure to disclose is financial interests, to place his holdings in a blind trust, and to nominate a cabinet full of incompetents.


He didn't say they were the same...he said they are treated differently by the media. Basic comprehension seems to be a insurmountable task for some people... 

Or, they just hear what they want to hear in order to protect their flawed ideology.


----------



## new dog

Bgc fan is right it was carelessness and just giving weapons to anyone willing to fight Assad in Syria is how Obama indirectly armed ISIS.

Thanks bass that was also a good explanation.

If the exact same thing happened to Obama if he was in office very little of this would be covered negatively by the press. The press has a clear agenda for all to see and nailing Trump and Russia is a big part of their agenda. The establishment want Trump out or powerless so they are doing everything possible to sabotage his presidency.

However Trump does get some blame as he is playing it out there and in your face. There is also the inexperience factor of never being in politics, playing into this as well.


----------



## olivaw

Trumpists may not realize the import of what is unfolding. 

- The Russian government intervened in the US presidential election to help Trump win. There is evidence of coordination between senior Trump staff and the Russians. There is even evidence that Trump himself is part of it. 

- Intelligence agencies and senior civil servants have opened a pipeline to WaPo and NYT to ensure that the public is aware of the Russian connection. 

- Insiders suggest that there is an even greater pipeline of information to specific senators like McCain. 

- Michael Flynn's resignation is unprecedented - big league. 

Some are saying that the White House is *falling apart*.

ETA: WaPo *writes*:


> Michael Flynn’s resignation from his post as national security adviser has sent tremors through the White House and the GOP more widely. An erratic, unconventional president now sits atop a White House in which virtually nothing the president, vice president and senior advisers say can be taken at face value. The ground has shifted quickly from a question of Flynn’s comments during the transition and his dishonesty about them to a much wider crisis over the Trump-Russia relationship.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> And given how weird this presidency has become and how fast it has left the parameters of normal political behavior, it is hardly nutty to think there is a chance he won’t complete his term.


----------



## bass player

Right. I forgot. The Russians hacked the election and forced Hillary supporters to vote for Trump. After all, hundreds of them said so right after the election. CNN ran the footage 24/7   

Lol.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Right. I forgot. The Russians hacked the election and forced Hillary supporters to vote for Trump. After all, hundreds of them said so right after the election. CNN ran the footage 24/7
> 
> Lol.


Like I said, Trumpists may not realize the import of what is unfolding before us. *NYT reports*: 



> WASHINGTON — Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.
> 
> American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.


No wonder WaPo is saying that the White House *is in a state of crisis.*



> Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said such an investigation is “highly likely,” and the top two members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Sen. Mark R. Warner (D-Va.), stood side by side Tuesday to announce that the committee’s ongoing probe must include an examination of any contacts between Trump campaign officials and the Russian government.


----------



## bass player

> WASHINGTON — Phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Donald J. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election, according to four current and former American officials.


So, Obama directed intelligence agencies to illegally tap the phones of Trump's staff during an election campaign? And we are now to believe that good-hearted intelligence people are now leaking it to the media?



> American law enforcement and intelligence agencies intercepted the communications around the same time they were discovering evidence that Russia was trying to disrupt the presidential election by hacking into the Democratic National Committee, three of the officials said. The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election.


The Russians supposedly tried to hack the Republicans too, so I guess they were trying to help Hillary win the election. It failed because the Republicans had safeguards in place. The fact that Podesta fell for a simple phishing scam that anyone could have done is being ignored to promote a conspiracy theory. And, of course, the hacked Democrat emails actually revealed illegal Democrat activities and media collusion to influence the election.

Of course, no investigation was initiated because the Democrats are above the law.


----------



## bgc_fan

bass player said:


> So, Obama directed intelligence agencies to illegally tap the phones of Trump's staff during an election campaign? And we are now to believe that good-hearted intelligence people are now leaking it to the media?


In reality, the intelligence agencies were monitoring Russian communications. That would be something you should expect from the FBI when you have foreign agents in the USA. The fact that Trump's staff decided to call them and got caught is on them.


----------



## james4beach

olivaw said:


> Trumpists may not realize the import of what is unfolding.


It's because Trump supporters, the conspiracy theory people, were manipulated and used by the Russians as peons.

Russia has successfully destabilized the USA.


----------



## new dog

Really and that is not a conspiracy theory as well.

The media has a definite agenda and is employed to destabilize the Trump presidency and that is as clear as day. Sure there is junk to pick through but every government has plenty of crap and even corruption to pick through but you don't see the media going after them 24/7.

Russia should definitely do what it can to knock down the US, hack and do whatever and so does many other countries. The US are the worst offenders of the destabilization game. However the debt and the mess that has been created in the last 20 years has nothing to do with Trump or Russia and this is what is ruining the US. 

The left is run by elites who have totally destroyed them and their message. These people are by far more dangerous then Trump could ever be as witnessed in Europe.


----------



## bass player

james4beach said:


> It's because Trump supporters, the conspiracy theory people, were manipulated and used by the Russians as peons.


Don't you mean the Hillary supporters were manipulated?? Aren't they the ones who supposedly changed parties and voted for Trump because of the sneaky Russians? 

Why would Russia try to encourage Trump voters vote for Trump when they already were going to vote for him in the first place??

Please explain your "logic"...


----------



## sags

How long before General Flynn tells all he knows when he realizes Trump is making him the fall guy ?


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> How long before General Flynn tells all he knows when he realizes Trump is making him the fall guy ?


Funny how when the Democrats emails are hacked, the left blames the people who supposedly hacked the emails instead of the Democrats, but when one of Trump's people has private phone conversations recorded by Obama's people, then the left never blame Obama, but instead blame the person who made the call.

Another full on display of hypocrisy from the left... 

That being said, it was Obama that made him the fall guy. Obama is the one who directed his lackeys to illegally spy on private citizens during an election campaign, and then kept that information private until he could use it. And, of course, this was not the first time the Obama regime has spied on American citizens...

And, per usual, he gets a free pass on this from the left and the media.


----------



## new dog

Dennis Kucinich who also was once a democratic candidate for president said America needs to wake up. He says this Russia thing is all about trying to get the US into another cold war with Russia. This was a dream of Hillary's and Obama which also feeds the war machine. The media is just doing its job in helping to make this a reality. The left of course goes along with anything even if it will destroy them because they blindly follow the media and their masters on the left even if there was a call for Sharia law or WW3. 

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/14/kucinich-intelligence-community-games-trying-upend-trump


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Kucinich who also was once a democratic candidate for president said America needs to wake up. He says this Russia thing is all about trying to get the US into another cold war with Russia. This was a dream of Hillary's and Obama which also feeds the war machine. The media is just doing its job in helping to make this a reality. The left of course goes along with anything even if it will destroy them because they blindly follow the media and their masters on the left even if there was a call for Sharia law or WW3.
> 
> http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/02/14/kucinich-intelligence-community-games-trying-upend-trump


Kucinich questioned the leaks and supposes an effort to reignite the cold war. He's wrong. There would be nothing to leak if the Russians hadn't interfered and been in communication with the Trump team. 

IMO, the intelligence community recognizes that neither Mitch McConnell nor Paul Ryan will launch an investigation. Republicans launched hundreds of politically motivated investigations of Hillary Clinton, none of which found a thing, but they'll steadfastly refuse to investigate one of their own. Intelligence officials know that a little public pressure will force them to do the right thing.


----------



## sags

The intelligence agencies briefed Trump, Obama, and the security committees of Congress.

I remember some Democrat members of the security committees leaving meetings and saying they couldn't reveal any details but there was a lot more involved than the public was aware of. The Republicans controlled the committees and the White House. They chose to ignore and hide the evidence and relied on confidentiality requirements to keep it all unknown to the public.

Somebody in the intelligence world leaked illegally leaked classified information, but they were careful to only leak enough to require a full investigation. For all anyone knows, the leaks could have come from someone inside Trump's cabinet as the leaks started after they took over the administration.

I am sure there is much more that the public still doesn't know about.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Obama didn't reveal anything as he is not the President anymore, but why did Trump and Congress hide the investigations from the public.


Obama was president at the time. Well, at least you corrected your falsehood...


----------



## sags

The similarities to Watergate are now becoming stronger and that ended with Nixon's resignation under the threat of impeachment.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> Obama was president at the time. Well, at least you corrected your falsehood...


The leaks have come out after the Trump administration took office. Otherwise General Flynn would never have been appointed as the NSA.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> The similarities to Watergate are now becoming stronger and that ended with Nixon's resignation under the threat of impeachment.


Hillary deleting emails was and then lying about it was much closer to Watergate. Right now, all we have are unproven allegations from unnamed sources.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> The leaks have come out after the Trump administration took office. Otherwise General Flynn would never have been appointed as the NSA.


That's another lie. Obama knew about the phone calls in December.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> That's another lie. Obama knew about the phone calls in December.


Yes, as did Trump who was the President - elect. 

The Congress was on Christmas hiatus and there was no point in Obama delving into it.

He smiled and said...........here you go Donald. You get to deal with it.


----------



## sags

A lot more information has become public since December.

Flynn didn't have one phone call to wish the Russians Christmas greetings.

There were 5 conversations on the day Obama enacted stricter sanctions on Russia.

There are others in the Trump administration who had conversations with the Russians and some of them were encrypted conversations.

The investigation now will focus on who gave Flynn the orders to talk to the Russians and for what purpose.

I suspect it leads right up to Trump's inner circle........and possibly Trump himself.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Yes, as did Trump who was the President - elect.
> 
> The Congress was on Christmas hiatus and there was no point in Obama delving into it.
> 
> He smiled and said...........here you go Donald. You get to deal with it.


Trump was not the president in December, Obama was the still president in December. And for part of January as well. Obama issued executive orders right up to and including his very last day in office.

Facts are hard, aren't they?


----------



## sags

Impeachment is one resolution. Treason charges are another. Or it could simply be a big misunderstanding.

The attempts by the Trump administration and Republicans to change the focus to the whistleblowers.......indicates it probably isn't a misunderstanding.


----------



## new dog

Impeachment and treason is a cornerstone of all US governments in the last 20 years at least. How many times have you heard people calling Washington a bunch of crooks and so on. The only difference is the media and the establishment is out to get Trump.

Here is Trump lashing out at the media calling them dishonest people. He also said he inherited a mess which I totally agree with. I disagree with him about the stock market performance however, he hasn't been in office long enough to have any real effect on it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...aunches-war-out-control-press-main-highlights


----------



## new dog

Here is the CIA messing around with the 2012 French presidential election. I suppose it only matters if Russia does it and not that almost everyone else is doing it.

https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/releases/


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Here is the CIA messing around with the 2012 French presidential election. I suppose it only matters if Russia does it and not that almost everyone else is doing it.
> 
> https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-elections-2012/releases/


The Democrats and media think Trump should be charged with treason based on unproven claims from unknown people. Yet, Kennedy asked Russia to intervene in the 1984 election...a deliberate attack on US democracy and a deliberate attempt to encourage foreign interests to "hack" an election. Why wasn't he charged with treason? 

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/te...eagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

Oh, right...he's a Democrat and above the law. It's only a crime when a Republican does it...


----------



## new dog

Oh no bass that comes from Forbes which is a gold source, that means there is no way the forum buddies can go against that. They will have to stick with the claim that only the left can get away things because they are nice and tolerant or something like that.


----------



## bass player

Don't underestimate the left...after all, Kennedy drove drunk off a bridge, left his mistress (still alive) to drown while he fled and created an alibi. The Democrats rewarded him for willful manslaughter by supporting his bid for presidency.

But, Trump once said ***** so that makes him evil


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Don't underestimate the left...after all, Kennedy drove drunk off a bridge, left his mistress (still alive) to drown while he fled and created an alibi. The Democrats rewarded him for willful manslaughter by supporting his bid for presidency.
> 
> But, Trump once said ***** so that makes him evil


The revelations came years later. It was a single letter. The person comminicating with the Russians was a senator. Reagan had won the election in question. There is no evidence that the recipient of the letter acted on it and he died shortly thereafter. The Soviet Union had collapsed by the time the story broke. Ted Kennedy is dead.

Flynn was an incoming national security advisor - a senior member of the president's inner circle. The Russians worked to help elect Trump. We don't know how high the ties go but there is evidence of numerous phone conversations between senior Trump staff and Putin's people. 

It isn't that Trump said "*****", it is that he heaps praise upon Putin. People are understandably interested to find out if his admiration for the Russian tyrant is indicative of a deeper relationship.


----------



## new dog

Restaurant fires 12 workers who didn't call and didn't show up to work on day off without immigrants day. They said the restaurant has fired workers before if they didn't show and didn't call, it was the policy there. However they thought they did the right thing standing up for what they believed in. 

I don't think Trump's policy is to stop immigration but just to stop questionable people and illegals from coming into the country. However I still think Saudi Arabia should be on that list if you have a list like this.


http://ktul.com/news/local/catoosa-...-for-not-showing-up-on-day-without-immigrants


----------



## new dog

The mainstream media is going over time lying about Sweden be all well and good when we know it is not true. Trump says Sweden immigration has been a disaster and that is true.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-sweden-idUSKBN15Y0QH

They are all covering up the problems overseas.


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> The mainstream media is going over time lying about Sweden be all well and good when we know it is not true. Trump says Sweden immigration has been a disaster and that is true.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-sweden-idUSKBN15Y0QH
> 
> They are all covering up the problems overseas.




here we go again with the standard racist anti-immigrant rant from the resident west coast *******. A personage who has never once set foot in Europe in his entire lifetime. Yet who nevertheless boasts that he is an expert on European cultural politics.

the media is *not* doing overtime about trump lying. Donald Trump lies or flubs or founders every single day. Fortunately we have the media fact-checkers to try to keep a sane view on the zoo that is the white house nowadays.

meanwhile (see linked reuters article) swedish officials say that the crime rate in Sweden has been falling since 2005, including in recent years which saw admission of large numbers of refugees. Thank you reuters for checking the facts.

.


----------



## new dog

I think you need to take a vacation to Sweden Humble and visit your muslim friends there and see how it goes.


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> I think you need to take a vacation to Sweden Humble and visit your muslim friends there and see how it goes.



why though? when your own linked article directly contradicts what you are trying to pretend?


_" Sweden's crime rate has fallen since 2005, official statistics show, even as it has taken in hundreds of thousands of immigrants from war-torn countries like Syria and Iraq," says Reuters._


meanwhile the white house desperately tried to spin away the latest trump gaffe re sweden.

_" A White House spokeswoman told reporters on Sunday that Trump had been referring generally to rising crime, not a specific incident in the Scandinavian country," says Reuters._.


----------



## sags

How many times now has Trump said something and been challenged on it, only to reply that "somebody told him" ?

People don't know if Trump is getting his intelligence and information from experts or the janitor.

If the media are all liars, and the intelligence agencies are all corrupt......where does Trump get his information ?

His own administration say Trump doesn't like in depth security briefings. He gets bored apparently.

They also say he doesn't always read or understand what he is signing. He has a lack of interest apparently.

There are stories from White House insiders of Trump showing his Inaugural crowd picture to all visitors to the White House, his restless late night wandering around the White House, his inviting guests at his resort to interviews and briefings, and his conflicting mood swings and rising stress levels.

I am just hoping that one of Trump's impulse decisions doesn't set a dangerous military confrontation in motion.

I am also hoping that those in the military chain of command have instituted some safeguards, like if Trump issues an order for a military action....... to get approval from them before implementing the order.

I am afraid the Trump voters tantrum that led to this political experiment of the absurd isn't going to end well.

I hope I am wrong.


----------



## carverman

sags said:


> How many times now has Trump said something and been challenged on it, only to reply that "somebody told him" ?


And the latest "alternative facts"/FakeNews is his press conference? where he exclaimed with his outstretched hands..
"look at what's happened in Germany and <paraphrase here>and Sweden.."
Everyone listening to more of his outbursts are saying.."what????" Even the Swedish authorities are denying any terrorist activity has occurred there.
Soon, with all scared refugees crossing our border, WE will also be branded as terrorist haven because of the increased refugees leaving his country.

With all this political bafflegab coming out of Trump, it's harder and harder to give him much credibilty as a politician. He should have stuck to what he know best..building Trump Towers and playing golf in his Floridia golf course.


> People don't know if Trump is *getting his intelligence and information from experts or the janitor*.


Probaby a little from both..we all know what happened when Geo "W" jumped the gun with WMDs in Iraq.
Now with N. Korea sabre rattling by firing off a missle last week when the Japanese PM was visiting Washington.

He reassured that America would protect his Japanese allies. ...lets hope that KIMJongil has more sense than to tangle with Trump and his gang of appointed warlords now.
The last thing the US needs right now with a unstable President is to get embroiled in a Pacific rim war with NK and China, who are telling the US to back off and not challenge them in their waters. The US ballastic missile carrier Vincelles routinely patrols the
waters there.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/19/us/us-carrier-south-china-sea/

Fake News or not, all we need now with Trump at the helm, is another international "created" incident.
Scary times indeed....and its only been a month with Trump in office. 



> I am also hoping that those in the military chain of command have instituted some safeguards, like if Trump issues an order for a military action....... to get approval from them before implementing the order.
> 
> I am afraid the Trump voters tantrum that led to this political experiment of the absurd isn't going to end well.


Uh huh! Just like George W wanted to go and finish off Saddam because his daddy couldn't in the first Gulf war and used ..uh.."miitary intellligence"..(an oxymoron) ...WMD were in Iraq and if the US didn't go in to finish off Saddam, he WOULD use these WMDs to finish off the ME. 

None were found of course after the US Invasion , but what were the ulitmate costs to the US and the free world by displacing a ME dictator that kept IraQ under his thumb?...several trillion of US additional debt, hundreds of thousands
of iraqis killed in the conflict, thousand of US troops killed..and it's still going on with ISIS replacing the void left behind by deposing Saddam. The USA just doesn't learn from
their past mistakes. 



> I hope I am wrong.


We hope so too!


----------



## olivaw

Cheer up. _We all agree that Donald Trump is going to destroy the world but we cannot deny that it will be an amusing destruction - Trevor Noah_. 

The Israel-Palestine conflict - solved!!!!!!


----------



## wraphter

carverman said:


> Everyone listening to more of his outbursts are saying.."what????" Even the Swedish authorities are denying any terrorist activity has occurred there.]Everyone listening to more of his outbursts are saying.."what????" Even the Swedish authorities are denying any terrorist activity has occurred there.


Maybe the Swedish authorities aren't telling the truth. That is what was said on a Fox news report that Trump may have heard.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime




> Journalist Ami Horowitz told Fox News people high up in the Swedish government are deliberately covering up and protecting perpetrators of rapes to protect "vulnerable" migrants.
> 
> During an explosive interview on Friday, Mr Horowitz claimed the refugee violence crisis was out of control but that "European virtues" had put a stop to any discussion on the statistics.
> 
> His claims caused Donald Trump to tell a rally in Florida that migration in Europe was out of control and wrongly claim there had been a security incident in Sweden.
> 
> He later said his comments were actually in reference to the Fox report rather than one specific incident.
> 
> Sweden accepted 160,000 asylum-seekers last year, with Fox reporting only 500 have managed to gain employment – 0.3 per cent of those who arrived to claim refugee status.
> 
> "From the onset of the refugee crisis, there was a surge in gun violence and rape - the statistics were clear.
> 
> "But locals were just said 'it was men, not refugees' so the majority in Sweden still want to have an open door policy. It’s confounding, really."
> 
> He continued: "The Swedish government try to cover up refugee rapes.
> 
> "There were a spate of violent attacks and sexual assaults at a music festival but officials tried to cover up who the perpetrators were.
> 
> *"The government has gone out of its way to cover up these figures."*


----------



## carverman

olivaw said:


> Cheer up. _We all agree that Donald Trump is going to destroy the world but we cannot deny that it will be an amusing destruction - Trevor Noah_.
> The Israel-Palestine conflict - solved!!!!!!


I like the Daily Show, while some of Trevor's comments could be considered controversial by some even in this era, he has been given enough leeway by his network to pull no punches. 

"The Donald" is an enigma and will continue to be so during his presidency, no matter how long (or short) it will be. Certainly by his actions in his first 30 days in office has
demonstrated that and perhaps he's making sure that he won't be selected in for any second term, even if he decides to throw his hat in the ring next time around 
...with yet another red hat slogan, "We can (still) make America Great', 
add to that .."even without co-ooperation of the rest of the world" 

quoting Donald here..
" ..so I'm looking at two state AND one state, and I like the one that both parties like ....(Netenyahu chuckles)..
..I can live with either one...blah blah blah.

Donald has just solved yet another long standing conflict between two opposing ideologies in a one liner..without mentioning that would/could be his solution.

Hmm..does his comb-over hair piece resemble that asteroid shown?


----------



## carverman

wraphter said:


> Maybe the Swedish authorities aren't telling the truth. That is what was said on a Fox news report that Trump may have heard.
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime





> He continued: "The Swedish government try to cover up refugee rapes.
> 
> "There were a spate of violent attacks and sexual assaults at a music festival but officials tried to cover up who the perpetrators were.


That fits in with Donald's perception of refugees from the middle east. 

Yes, there has been some molestation of women in Germany and if the Swedish information isn't spin doctored by Sweden, there may be a point in there somewhere..
maybe the European women should stop showing cleavage in public and short skirts
and need to don burkas too?

Donald has just redrafted his new immigration policy with some amendments not to exclude everybody...just the Muslim men.


----------



## wraphter

carverman said:


> we all know what happened when Geo "W" jumped the gun with WMDs in Iraq.


Bush made his decision based on US government intelligence reports. Colin Powell explained this intelligence with photos
of mobile chemical weapons trucks at the UN. Trump now distrusts government intelligence. Condoleeza Rice spoke in favour of invasion.

Congress voted in favour of the Iraq war. Bush didn't invade on his own. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution



> Introduced in Congress on October 2, 2002, in conjunction with the Administration's proposals,[3][8] H.J.Res. 114 passed the House of Representatives on Thursday afternoon at 3:05 p.m. EDT on October 10, 2002, by a vote of 296-133,[9] and passed the Senate after midnight early Friday morning, at 12:50 a.m. EDT on October 11, 2002, by a vote of 77-23.[10] It was signed into law as Pub.L. 107–243 by President Bush on October 16, 2002.
> 
> .......
> 
> 215 (96.4%) of 223 Republican Representatives voted for the resolution.
> 82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.


Without the Democratic support in the House it would have been very close.

Bush didn't "jump the gun".


----------



## carverman

wraphter said:


> Bush made his decision based on US government intelligence reports. Colin Powell explained this intelligence with photos of mobile chemical weapons trucks at the UN. Trump now distrusts government intelligence. Condoleeza Rice spoke in favour of invasion.
> 
> Congress voted in favour of the Iraq war. Bush didn't invade on his own.


Maybe so, but it's hard to believe if there was enough hard evidence to stall the invasion before the US actually invaded. Maybe they found a few old ones lying around that hadn;'t been destroyed by the Iraqis and some mobile factory trucks in the desert, but according to the UN resolution that they needed to do that and show to the weapons inspectors that they had destroyed all.

Long before the decision was placed before congress to make the final decision to invade, the Bush adminstration only knew that Saddam would not comply with UN weapons inspectors and for that reason was hiding his biological weapon (antrax. VX) production capabilty.



> For The New York Times to say, “The discoveries of these chemical weapons did not support the government’s invasion rationale,” is ridiculous. Now that the leftist claim that no WMDs were found in Iraq has become untenable, they are moving the goalposts again. They say these pre-Gulf War era WMDs don’t count, even though Saddam’s continued possession of these older ones was clearly used as a justification for war.


Read more: http://thepoliticalinsider.com/bombshell-new-york-times-reports-wmds-found-iraq/#ixzz4ZEWsLtGN



> But to locate all of Iraq’s old chemical ordnance was an impossible task. As Duelfer’s report predicted in 2004, the U.S. would continue to find chemical shells — not because the Saddam Hussein regime had been hiding them, but because they had been “abandoned, forgotten and lost during the Iran-Iraq war [since] tens of thousands of CW munitions were forward deployed along the frequently and rapidly shifting battle lines.





> Without the Democratic support in the House it would have been very close.
> 
> Bush didn't "jump the gun".


So it raises the fundamental question with US foreign policy miltary solutions..who can
be believed within the US government/military is involved. If old ordinance was found,
was it regular explosive ordinance or shells containing biological weapons?


----------



## humble_pie

wraphter said:


> Maybe the Swedish authorities aren't telling the truth. That is what was said on a Fox news report that Trump may have heard.
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime




wraphter you're too smart to quote garbage like this. Your source the Express is a rightwing british tabloid that serves up sensationalized lies in the quintessential time-honoured london tabloid dirt tradition.

sure we can speculate that swedish authorities are maybe not telling the truth. On the other hand, sweden is not a country that is known for official lying, dishonesty or betrayal of its own citizens' safety.

sure we can speculate that the moon is made of blue cheese, that the world is flat, that jesus christ caused the rise of fascism 1900 years later, that authorities who pretend otherwise are all lying. But at a certain point, normal healthy persons don't waste their time on garbage like this. 

the harsh reality is that any country which undergoes a sudden large influx of young single males - any nationality, any religion - is going to experience a concomitant increase in sexual assault. Not an exact correlation, but there will be increased incidents.

statistically, women & children in canada & the US are more at risk of assault from their own native countrymen, even from persons they already know, than they are of assault by recently-arrived foreigners.

what we need to focus on is protecting our own vulnerable citizens. The Globe & Mail has a series on rape going on right now that shows how canada & canadian police forces are not yet doing a good enough job.

.


----------



## bass player

In fact, Sweden is so safe that 60 Minutes recently went there to do a story. This is what happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76DLK20L4o

Those darn dark skinned white supremacists!!


----------



## carverman

bass player said:


> In fact, Sweden is so safe that 60 Minutes recently went there to do a story. This is what happened:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76DLK20L4o
> 
> Those darn dark skinned white supremacists!!


So it is true..and Donald was talking about that. Problems when you take in a race of people that are not used to having white women on the street, especially blonde. 
It just triggers sexual fantasies in their uncivilized brains.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> In fact, Sweden is so safe that 60 Minutes recently went there to do a story. This is what happened:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76DLK20L4o
> 
> Those darn dark skinned white supremacists!!




interestingly, the first thug to appear - after the principal segment had been filmed - had an unmistakable African American inner-city accent.

those are actors imho. That piece is a staged script imho. We are supposed to believe that paraplegics in wheelchairs are now guarding after-hours shopping centres in sweden?

no, wait. There's ezra levant! it's an ezra levant Rebel channel!!

bass please tell me, what kind of aging kuck spends his days & nights breathlessly following ezra levant on youtube ...

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> interestingly, the first thug to appear - after the principal segment had been filmed - had an unmistakable African American inner-city accent.
> 
> those are actors imho. That piece is a staged script imho. We are supposed to believe that paraplegics in wheelchairs are now guarding after-hours shopping centres in sweden?


So, hard left 60 Minutes now makes up man on the street interviews to create fake news and hires leftist thugs to make Sweden look bad?? I don't think even you believe your steaming pile of BS... 

But, keep it coming...I can't wait to see what you come up with next!! 

I'm sorry...I didn't see Ezra in that video...perhaps you could point out the portion of the 60 Minute bit where he is on screen??


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> So, hard left 60 Minutes now makes up man on the street interviews to create fake news and hires leftist thugs to make Sweden look bad?? I don't think even you believe your steaming pile of BS...
> 
> But, keep it coming...I can't wait to see what you come up with next!!
> 
> I'm sorry...I didn't see Ezra in that video...perhaps you could point out the portion of the 60 Minute bit where he is on screen??




easy there, sir. Nobody said 60 minutes hired. But somebody hired a masked african american to storm the shopping mall after hours for the cameras.

nor did anybody say ezra levant appeared in the 60 seconds piece. It's the channel.

BS? sir u are the king of steaming BS. You are the emperor of excretion. You are the duke of defecation. You are the marquis of merde.

you saw how another respected cmffer yesterday complained how you are an evil troll who, in 1,300 posts, has never managed to say as much as one single word of any financial significance?

not even a single financial syllable .:biggrin:

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> easy there, sir. Nobody said 60 minutes hired. But somebody hired a masked african american to storm the shopping mall after hours for the cameras.


Someone hired him, paid for his flight to Sweden, and then drove him to where 60 Minutes was filming...as I stated earlier, keep the BS (because that's what it is) coming.   



> nor did anybody say ezra levant appeared in the 60 seconds piece. It's the channel.


The "recommended" next videos on YouTube are based on your viewing history. I guess that only proves that you're a fan of Ezra.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Eder

Nice to see some spontaneous news coverage rather than scripted that gets dumped on us 24/7


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Someone hired him, paid for his flight to Sweden, and then drove him to where 60 Minutes was filming...as I stated earlier, keep the BS (because that's what it is) coming.



no you've got it all wrong. He was a local hire. Grew up in the US of A though. I'll go further. In a northern city, not in the US rural south.

& it's the channel, flannel.

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> no you've got it all wrong. He was a local hire. Grew up in the US of A though. I'll go further. In a northern city, not in the US rural south.
> 
> & it's the channel, flannel.
> 
> .


Maybe that's why the reports of immigrant crime in Sweden are so low...they are mostly left leaning like you and blame immigrant attacks on local hired American thugs instead of peace loving immigrants  

Keep your theories coming...they are very entertaining!!


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Maybe that's why the reports of immigrant crime in Sweden are so low...they are mostly left leaning like you and blame immigrant attacks on local hired American thugs instead of peace loving immigrants



oh no no no no no. Swedes are very practical. Even dour & teutonic about things like facts & precise evidence.

sweden's official stats would place the blame for attacks by immigrants squarely on immigrants. That's why I believe that, when swedes say their crime rate is declining, it's more efficient to believe them than to waste all kinds of time & energy being paranoid. 

the filmed episode, with its US-speak personnage pretending to be a muslim refugee, looks fake clear through to its goony wheelchair rescue ending. Notice that nobody got hurt or even hit. All we saw was a brief scrimmage. In real life, the reporters would have been injured & their cameras would have been seized within seconds.

who paid for the episode & why, we don't know. Its objective appeared to be a laughably crude attempt to smear Syrian refugees. There are mllions of these LC Attempts. Some of them get posted regularly here in cmf forum. You, bass, are a troll who posts Laughably Crude Attempts on here, every single day .each:


.


----------



## bass player

I'm still laughing at your paid American thug in Sweden just to punk 60 Minutes conspiracy theory....nothing coming from a mind like that should be taken seriously.

Please, give us another one....


----------



## olivaw

^ The shopping centre myth appears to have originated with Russian state media and pushed by Ami Horowitz. It's fake news.

ETA: The crew in Bass Player's video was not from the highly acclaimed CBS 60 Minutes. It's a self proclaimed investigative team for an Australian TV show called "60 Minutes Australia". 



> 60 Minutes [Australia] have apparently partnered with Avpixlat, a Swedish anti-immigration online outlet which describes itself as working in the spirit of “alternative journalism” and as a “thorn in the side of the PC-establishment’s journalists and politicians”. Avpixlat claims to expose “inconvenient truths and opinions about Swedish immigration and migration policy”.


 http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6379970


----------



## new dog

Swedish electric company no longer wants to service Malmo because it is to dangerous. I sure hope Canada brings in these nice wonderful migrants.

https://voat.co/v/European/1642841


----------



## new dog

And from Zerohedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-20/meanwhile-rioting-breaks-out-sweden

I don't know about the forum buddies here but I will take a pass on taking a chance on bringing in this riff raff into Canada.


----------



## bass player

After they're done destroying their home country, they go forth and destroy other countries.

The "migrants" probably wouldn't last very long in Canada if they ever take over...once everyone with modern technological skills gets run out there will be no one to keep electricity and heating systems operational. After everything that's flammable gets burned it will be too cold to stay.


----------



## coptzr

In my mind Europe was just as the brochure showed and full of the history I read about. In the past 5 years my relatives and friends have shown me different. My cousin moved to London several years ago to work as a professor. One day an new immigrant barged through the front door with a machete and attacked him. He moved back to Ontario to rehabilitate and has finally moved back to England. One friend who is a professional trades person has moved here permanently because of the change in environment that was his home of Scotland for 40yrs. Another friend has just received his paperwork after 2yrs of applications and interviews. He has been living here over that time to experience Canadian lifestyle. Although he misses upper class England a lot, the stress he experiences when he revisits home every few months has motivated him to buy a home in Canada and consider it a permanent residence.

As far as fake news, I have experienced this personally by a major news outlet. We dealt with all the major media broadcasters in television, radio, and newspaper. It only took one after they had dug deep enough to change the focus of the story and try and make it more dramatic. We were greatly disappointed and angry that the original subject and message that had became almost viral, if you can say, had now become personal. They showed their true colours which required us to stop any communication. At least one major organization and two groups lost a lot of needed exposure and potential new funding.


----------



## new dog

It is awful what has happened to Europe coptzr and it will get worse. Now you have BREXIT and the rise of hard right parties who people are trying to bring in to combat the problem. If we go the way that some want here in Canada then we may find the next Trump voted in here. I have said it before the left is the cause of the hard right and any rise in white supremacy. It is good to see some people here do get it and just want what is good and right for our country. Having a proper media would also be good, thanks for sharing your story coptzr.


----------



## SMK

And LePen keeps rising in the polls, which sound like fake news, but unfortunately it isn't. https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...lls-as-security-concerns-sway-voters-izef48iu


----------



## new dog

LePen should be a hero to our forum buddy ladies. She refused to wear headscarf in a meeting with Lebanon Cleric. Sounds like she is a champion amongst women and wouldn't march for sharia law like so many others did after Trump was inaugurated.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...en-refuses-headscarf-meet-Lebanons-mufti.html


----------



## humble_pie

coptzr said:


> Another friend has just received his paperwork after 2yrs of applications and interviews. He has been living here over that time to experience Canadian lifestyle. Although he misses upper class England a lot, the stress he experiences when he revisits home every few months has motivated him to buy a home in Canada and consider it a permanent residence.




no one who has yet to receive immigration status in the UK will ever experience *upper class England.* 

england remains one of the most class striated nations on the planet. The upper class in england is the minor aristocracy & the aristocracy. An immigrant has a much better chance of hitching a spaceship ride to the moon than he does of truly penetrating the minor british aristocracy. At least he can pay for the former.

.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> And LePen keeps rising in the polls, which sound like fake news, but unfortunately it isn't. https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...lls-as-security-concerns-sway-voters-izef48iu


You spelled "fortunately" wrong...


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> LePen should be a hero to our forum buddy ladies. She refused to wear headscarf in a meeting with Lebanon Cleric. Sounds like she is a champion amongst women and wouldn't march for sharia law like so many others did after Trump was inaugurated.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...en-refuses-headscarf-meet-Lebanons-mufti.html


Funny how a bunch of Swedish MP's proudly proclaimed their opposition to Trump due to supposed sexist attitude but then the very next day they all donned hijabs in a show of "solidarity" with beaten down and oppressed Muslim women. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic and hypocritical of how the left thinks.


----------



## humble_pie

coptzr said:


> As far as fake news, I have experienced this personally by a major news outlet. We dealt with all the major media broadcasters in television, radio, and newspaper. It only took one after they had dug deep enough to change the focus of the story and try and make it more dramatic. We were greatly disappointed and angry that the original subject and message that had became almost viral, if you can say, had now become personal. They showed their true colours which required us to stop any communication. At least one major organization and two groups lost a lot of needed exposure and potential new funding.




i know how the media work so let me guess what went wrong in this case: your organization had a story with a special spin that they wanted to sell to reporters.

but one media in particular insisted on doing its own proper investigation. They dug deeper & discovered another side to your story - a side you perhaps didn't want to be known.

as sometimes happens with naiive organizations that fail to understand how a free press works, your group became angry. Your dysfunctional response was to "stop all communication." 

what your organization should have done is include a media specialist from the get-go. A professional with real media experience, either on staff or else contracted from the outside. The risks of unfavourable-to-yourselves information getting out into the hands of the press should have been totally analyzed & discussed - at the level of your highest executive officer - from the very beginning. Long before your organization ever took the dangerous step of trying to plant its own single-sided story with the media.

the risks of unfavourable information being discovered when a subject tries to plant its own one-sided story in the media are high. Journalists are trained to investigate. Journos & editors must & do report as many legitimate angles to a story as they can uncover. Your organization should have dealt with all of this before it tried to market its pitch, imho.


.


----------



## humble_pie

olivaw said:


> ^ The shopping centre myth appears to have originated with Russian state media and pushed by Ami Horowitz. It's fake news.
> 
> ETA: The crew in Bass Player's video was not from the highly acclaimed CBS 60 Minutes. It's a self proclaimed investigative team for an Australian TV show called "60 Minutes Australia".
> 
> http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6379970




there you go. And the masked "Syrian refugee" who first appeared was, in real life, a hired african american bit player costumed for his role in the staged video.

it would have been better if he'd kept his mouth shut. It was his inner-city US accent that gave him away. But then, all the fake news websites stumble on the cheap amateur side, so they're fairly easy to spot

.


----------



## carverman

bass player said:


> You spelled "fortunately" wrong...


Blame the " for tuna" sandwich.


----------



## new dog

Well being we can all agree that Sweden is probably one of the safest places in the world especially the migrant suburbs I think forum buddies should put it on their vacation list. Here is one nice area with pictures to show where you may be able to roast a few marshmallows.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ated-after-violent-riot-erupts-swedish-suburb


----------



## coptzr

humble_pie said:


> i know how the media work so let me guess what went wrong in this case: your organization had a story with a special spin that they wanted to sell to reporters.
> 
> but one media in particular insisted on doing its own proper investigation. They dug deeper & discovered another side to your story - a side you perhaps didn't want to be known.
> 
> as sometimes happens with naiive organizations that fail to understand how a free press works, your group became angry. Your dysfunctional response was to "stop all communication."
> 
> what your organization should have done is include a media specialist from the get-go. A professional with real media experience, either on staff or else contracted from the outside. The risks of unfavourable-to-yourselves information getting out into the hands of the press should have been totally analyzed & discussed - at the level of your highest executive officer - from the very beginning. Long before your organization ever took the dangerous step of trying to plant its own single-sided story with the media.
> 
> the risks of unfavourable information being discovered when a subject tries to plant its own one-sided story in the media are high. Journalists are trained to investigate. Journos & editors must & do report as many legitimate angles to a story as they can uncover. Your organization should have dealt with all of this before it tried to market its pitch, imho.
> 
> 
> .


 I wrote a lengthy reply, unfortunately when using phone everything seems to time out between website and phone settings. This post is not worth taking the additional time to explain. Your post is an assumption and incorrect. We are not a one time story, a company and a bad follow up or more in depth investigation. We (a couple individual people)have helped raised millions to help the public, continuing to speak to many major media outlets from national radio, television, and print. 
For you to state "another side of your story" and write 5 paragraphs of completely false and imaginative assumptions shows a complete lack of intelligence and most importantly respect.

Perhaps you need a reality check. I can introduce you to my friends and family who have suffered and had to leave their homes they have known for 30yrs. Want to prove how much you know about media, please provide me your contacts for at least 3 national media outlets, not company related, your personal contacts and copy of the video, printed articles, and audio you were part of.


----------



## coptzr

humble_pie said:


> no one who has yet to receive immigration status in the UK will ever experience *upper class England.*
> 
> england remains one of the most class striated nations on the planet. The upper class in england is the minor aristocracy & the aristocracy. An immigrant has a much better chance of hitching a spaceship ride to the moon than he does of truly penetrating the minor british aristocracy. At least he can pay for the former.
> 
> .


Another false statement. I know at least a dozen people from other countries who have settled around London and to the countryside of England. The got off a plane with a backpack, they got sh!tty jobs, paid the unfathomable rent and food prices, shared one room apartments with multiple people. After several years they are doing well. The daily commute sucks, but the lifestyle is worth it. The anger and tension is what is killing that country. They have much better weekly family and friend traditions which we have lost.


----------



## gibor365

If Roman Abramovich is not considered by HP as *upper class England.* , then idk who is


----------



## olivaw

Humble is probably talking about the English _gentry_ when she says "upper class England". Those are aristocrats with titles and/or old money.


----------



## new dog

Listen to the end of the 30 second clip of MSNBC as anchor says Trump is trying to control what people think and she says that is our job. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...its-our-job-control-exactly-what-people-think


----------



## humble_pie

olivaw said:


> Humble is probably talking about the English _gentry_ when she says "upper class England". Those are aristocrats with titles and/or old money.




upper class has nothing to do with money in england. Zero. Nada.

sir geoffroy or sir hugh can be poor as church mice in their countryside piles of crennelated rocks that date back to the norman invasion. But they will always be U.



.


----------



## olivaw

humble_pie said:


> upper class has nothing to do with money in england. Zero. Nada.
> 
> sir geoffroy or sir hugh can be poor as church mice in their countryside piles of crennelated rocks that date back to the norman invasion. But they will always be U.
> 
> .


A title is not related to money, but a knighthood is more often bestowed upon rich people than poor. Sir Richard Branson and Sir Elton John are examples. 

Aristocratic social circles tend to include people with inherited wealth. They are trained in the social graces necessary to move among the aristocratic class. Poor Sir Hugh and rich Roman Abramovich may not receive invitations to the ball. I wouldn't know for sure. My family was of English commoner stock. We lacked both title and money so we didn't receive an invitation to the ball either. 

In Canada, my economic and social background doesn't seem to matter. It's one of the things I love about this country.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Well being we can all agree that Sweden is probably one of the safest places in the world especially the migrant suburbs I think forum buddies should put it on their vacation list. Here is one nice area with pictures to show where you may be able to roast a few marshmallows.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ated-after-violent-riot-erupts-swedish-suburb


Sweden's official response to Trump's comments: "_WTF?_"


----------



## new dog

Sweden doesn't want you to know they are a mess but the video was funny.


----------



## olivaw

Donald Trump has been shown to be the least honest occupant of the Whitehouse since Richard M. Nixon. He says that Sweden is a mess. 
Sweden is a democracy with a history of accurate government reporting. They say crime is on the decline. 

Who to believe?


----------



## sags

The $435,000,000 Powerball Lottery was won by a ticket sold in Indiana.

The rumour is the ticket is owned by VP Mike Pence/ President Donald Trump.

Rigged lottery ?


----------



## new dog

olivaw said:


> Donald Trump has been shown to be the least honest occupant of the Whitehouse since Richard M. Nixon. He says that Sweden is a mess.
> Sweden is a democracy with a history of accurate government reporting. They say crime is on the decline.
> 
> Who to believe?


I certainly wouldn't believe the people on the left or the left media, who try to cover up everything or miss out part of the facts or the story. I would believe if you have a ton of muslims that it would be ghetto time and a disaster.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> I certainly wouldn't believe the people on the left or the left media, who try to cover up everything or miss out part of the facts or the story. I would believe if you have a ton of muslims that it would be ghetto time and a disaster.


Why would you think that? There are over a million Muslims in Canada and they haven't been ghettoized. Do you think that a few tens of thousands of refugees are going to change that?


----------



## new dog

Not a few thousand but I think Trudeau wants to make it much more then that along with illegal immigrants.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Not a few thousand but I think Trudeau wants to make it much more then that along with illegal immigrants.


We all know that the response from the Liberals on immigration would be very, very different if the data showed that most immigrants voted Conservative... 

They're doing everything they can to increase their voting base.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

Love this thread.
Here we have a dog barking up the wrong tree and a fish out of water. 
Dog & Bass, another of that long line of comedy teams, from Abbott & Costello through to Cheech & Chong.


----------



## new dog

That is a good one I have to admit.

However how is it you are able to invest, when you have no grasp of the obvious. Whether you like illegal immigration or not it is painfully obvious that Trudeau gains possible future votes with every one that gets in. He also stands to gain greatly with possible refugee votes as well.


----------



## new dog

On another note the Canadian government shouldn't be in the business of policing fake news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/government-fake-news-1.3993128


----------



## new dog

I sure hope that the Oscars don't become political. Many Trump supporters say they will turn it off if it becomes political. Despite what Trump supporters think I think we watch the Oscars to get away from that sort of thing. People need a break from politics and I hope there is very little of it no matter which direction it goes, left or right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-voters-awards-show-politics_us_58aeef7be4b0140601303c75


----------



## bass player

Of course they'll be political. The Hollywood elite need to tell everyone how oppressed they are now that evil Trump has been elected.


----------



## olivaw

The Oscars will be political because America is political. Emotions are running high, the country is politically divided and Trump is controversial. 

The Huff post link above suggested that there might even be a Hillary Clinton appearance, or at least a video.


----------



## bass player

I hope the Oscars go and have an all out hair on fire political rant...then when half the country gets sick and tired of being talked down to by a bunch of rich crybabies and their perceived "oppression" and decide to stop going to see their movies, we can watch them cry some more and blame the drop in the box office on everyone but themselves.

Maybe they'll give Polanski another award so that Meryl Streep can stand up and give the pedophile another standing ovation...


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> I hope the Oscars go and have an all out hair on fire political rant...then when half the country gets sick and tired of being talked down to by a bunch of rich crybabies and their perceived "oppression" and decide to stop going to see their movies, we can watch them cry some more and blame the drop in the box office on everyone but themselves.
> 
> Maybe they'll give Polanski another award so that Meryl Streep can stand up and give the pedophile another standing ovation...


Streep and many others get out there and bash Trump in a desperate display of *** kissing to their owners-it really is pathetic.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> I hope the Oscars go and have an all out hair on fire political rant...then when half the country gets sick and tired of being talked down to by a bunch of rich crybabies and their perceived "oppression" and decide to stop going to see their movies, we can watch them cry some more and blame the drop in the box office on everyone but themselves.



people are never going to stop going to the movies .each:

there's no limit to your malevolence, is there? now it's movies? what next? is there anything on the planet that you're not scheming to destroy?

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> people are never going to stop going to the movies .each:
> 
> there's no limit to your malevolence, is there? now it's movies? what next? is there anything on the planet that you're not scheming to destroy?
> 
> .


I only tell the truth about the Trump haters...they're bitter, small minded people. Showing my disdain for them is no crime, it's not like they deserve any sympathy.


----------



## Eder

I wont watch the Oscars...the actors I have met make me puke with the exception of Alex Baldwin who is very cool & humble and Anthony Hopkins who went out of his way to be a part of our little town years ago.


----------



## SMK

^Nor will I, but watched the movies. Couldn't skip Hidden Figures and La La Land, for starters.


----------



## sags

The most effective protests in days gone by were in front of the White House.

They were a constant reminder and irritant to the President of the time.

I am not sure how close protesters can get to the White House now or if they would be allowed to protest.

So people protest wherever it is effective. Protests at Republican Congressional offices and town hall meetings are proving very effective.


----------



## bass player

The only thing these "protests" are accomplishing is proving how bitter some people are. Every time someone loots a store or lights a car on fire, it drives more people away.


----------



## olivaw

^Trump appears to have unified and mobilized American progressives. Hillary Clinton has emerging as something of a hero (heroin?) but she is not leading the movement. It appears to be more of a grass roots movement.

At this point, it is a protest against Trump but there appear to be efforts to organize a grass roots movement to elect as many Dems as possible to Congress in 2020. These folks refuse to be dismissed as looters and violent anarchists.


----------



## new dog

What a terrible hero to have. I couldn't think of anybody worse then Hillary.

Anyway I think bass is right if they make the Oscars political they are going to really turn people off. It is fine to have some comedy moments but it should be limited to that, the people need a break and Hillary should stay home.


----------



## sags

Best not push Trump's buttons too much. He isn't all that mentally stable.


----------



## olivaw

My wife and I usually skip the Oscars but we are watching this year for the Trump button pushing.


----------



## Nelley

As usual Donald Trump gets the last laugh at the Oscars-these braindead sheep have all the answers for the problems of the planet and they can't even manage to read a card. Jeez.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> My wife and I usually skip the Oscars but we are watching this year for the Trump button pushing.


I can't think of anything more sad than making a point of watching rich fact-free celebrities complain because their criminal candidate wasn't elected. The same people who are against guns but make millions in movies glorifying gun violence. The same people who live in gated communities and complain about a wall. The same people who jet all over the world and own expensive yachts who complain about man-made global warming. The same people who stood up and applauded when a pedophile received an award but won't enter the country because he fears arrest.


----------



## SMK

bass player said:


> The same people who are against guns but make millions in movies glorifying gun violence. The same people who live in gated communities and complain about a wall. The same people who jet all over the world and own expensive yachts who complain about man-made global warming. The same people who stood up and applauded when a pedophile received an award but won't enter the country because he fears arrest.


Hard to argue with any of that. And when they don't own yachts that are big enough to fit all their friends, they rent it. Perhaps that’s why DiCaprio felt it was just fine to rent one of the world’s largest yachts — owned, ironically, by an oil baron from the Middle East — to attend the 2014 World Cup in Brazil. http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...nt-big-on-walking-his-own-climate-change-talk


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> I can't think of anything more sad than making a point of watching rich fact-free celebrities complain because their criminal candidate wasn't elected. The same people who are against guns but make millions in movies glorifying gun violence. The same people who live in gated communities and complain about a wall. The same people who jet all over the world and own expensive yachts who complain about man-made global warming. The same people who stood up and applauded when a pedophile received an award but won't enter the country because he fears arrest.


What is sad is the right wingers that said that they would immediately turn off the Oscars if anybody dared to make a political comment. We watched to see what the fuss was about. It was hardly controversial - a few people spoke about tolerance, inclusiveness and Meryl Streep.


----------



## new dog

I would never watch any of the boring movies that win the best movie award. I like the action and the shooting, I just saw John Wick last week, tons of action and he shoots just about everybody.

Although you do make a good points and I agree with them.


----------



## Eder

I think there's more than right wingers turning off the Oscars...ratings are in the toilet. Upward on this thread is the explanation why the lack of interest.


----------



## bass player

Eder said:


> I think there's more than right wingers turning off the Oscars...ratings are in the toilet. Upward on this thread is the explanation why the lack of interest.


People are getting sick of celebrities using every public appearance or award show to go on political rant. Shut up and sing or shut up and act and keep your political views to yourself.


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> I would never watch any of the boring movies that win the best movie award. I like the action and the shooting, I just saw John Wick last week, tons of action and he shoots just about everybody.
> 
> Although you do make a good points and I agree with them.


Usually the best movies of the year are ignored by the Oscars-although the OJ doc was quite good-both GOLD and THE FOUNDER were excellent this year.


----------



## new dog

Bass I really hope people are getting turned off by politics in places it shouldn't be.

Nelley to me movies are for entertainment so I am not into the boring real life drama crap. Although I would like to see the movies you mentioned but I suppose they would be boring to other people.


----------



## olivaw

Politics is everywhere in the US. My wife and I used to be frequent cruisers. Rarely would a day would go by without an American telling us their political views. 

Do you guys get equally upset when Ted Nugent shares his right wing political views?

I found the Oscars a little dull, with the exception of a few touching speeches and comments about social issues.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> I found the Oscars a little dull, with the exception of a few touching speeches and comments about social issues.


It's not the Social Issue Awards. It's The Oscars.


----------



## sags

It's their show and they can do whatever they want with it.

Trump is supplying comics with copious amounts of material. The Oscars should have had the SNL cast give away the Oscars.

Baldwin as Trump, talking about how great his show was..........Flynn talking on the phone to Putin about an upcoming action role..........Conway screaming......"Ivanka....makeup, wardrobe"..........and Spicer checking the audience phones for the leaker.

Trump could have lifted up his hair and reached in for the envelope......and the winner of Best Everything........is me.


----------



## sags

Talk about fake news.........the guy that Fox had on who was represented as a National Security Advisor to Sweden and former member of the Swedish military, has no connection to Sweden and was never in their military. He isn't a security expert and moved to the US and operates under a fake name. His linkedin account has been removed from the website. He also has a criminal record in the US.

Fox News was forced to admit they have been hoaxed.

The guy had a little watched video on Youtube that was supposedly about riots in Sweden, and Fox wanted to exploit it. 

It was fake too, according to police officers and witnesses who were there at the scene.

This guy might end up being deported from the US back to Sweden.

So much for all that Sweden is an immigration disaster BS.


----------



## olivaw

Trump blames Obama for the protests. He cites no evidence whatsoever. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ses-barack-obama-orchestrating-protests-leaks


----------



## humble_pie

new dog said:


> I would never watch any of the boring movies that win the best movie award. I like the action and the shooting, I just saw John Wick last week, tons of action and he shoots just about everybody.



:biggrin: excellent self-description, thankx

.


----------



## new dog

Humble I know you like the chick flicks but that is what girls like.

My son and his friends went to go watch Fifty Shades Darker with their girl friends on Valentines day. After the movie they said that was awful, they should have seen John Wick but unfortunately it is Valentines day. We get to see real life everyday, so I like to go to movies to be entertained.


----------



## humble_pie

sags said:


> Talk about fake news.........the guy that Fox had on who was represented as a National Security Advisor to Sweden and former member of the Swedish military, has no connection to Sweden and was never in their military. He isn't a security expert and moved to the US and operates under a fake name. His linkedin account has been removed from the website. He also has a criminal record in the US.
> 
> Fox News was forced to admit they have been hoaxed.





the fake news scandals continue to build. How shocking that a US president - so-called leader of the free world - is conducting foreign policy on the basis of 100% false news that he casually glimpses on Fox network but doesn't bother to check.

a Fox news source billed as "Nils Bildt" & touted by Fox as a top-level swedish defence & security advisor who slams syrian refugees in sweden, caused president trump to denounce "what's happening last night in Sweden" last week, although nothing had happened.

in reality Bildt, aka Nils Tolling, emigrated out of sweden in 1994, is a supporter of alt-right & racist causes, is unknown to the swedish government, has zero connection to swedish defence experts or swedish media or swedish politicians, is not a swedish security analyst or any other kind of swedish analyst.

the swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter says bildt/tolling has a criminal conviction in the US, where he claims to be living, while at the same time bildt/tolling is also regarded as foreign policy pest & persona non grata in japan, where he also claims to be living (link to DN article in english is below.)

the Independent (link below) says that nils bildt/tolling has a 2014 criminal conviction in the state of virginia, USA, for assault & battery, obstruction of justice & public inebriation. How ironic is it that the chief public "liar du jour" on immigrants - a major influence upon an ignorant & impulse-ridden US president - is himself an immigrant who has been convicted for criminal conduct!

from fake Fox to donald trump to hundreds of thousands of alt-right fake news websites to the handful of trolls posting lies in cmf forum is a seamless flow, thanks to the internet.

the Toronto Star, part owner of this forum, should be ashamed of its role in promoting the latest bildt/tolling fake news scandal re sweden, along with countless other scams & lies promoted by trolls bass, nelley & newdog here in CMF forum.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...t-donald-trump-fake-advisor-usa-a7599506.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...dvisor-unknown-to-countrys-military-officials

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ilitary-officials-bill-o-reilly-a7601506.html

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/25/fox-news-interview-fake-expert-sweden-baffles-swedes/

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/fa...ions-in-us-no-connection-to-swedish-security/


.


----------



## bass player

I see that humble still ignores fake news from the msm...


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> I see that humble still ignores fake news from the msm...



you're quite mixed up here ...

i ignore fake news other than the odd time, as immediately upthread with the nils bildt/tolling defamatory hoax, when i choose to try to do whatever insignificant nano-bit i can, to expose the proliferating internet lies from fake news trolls such as yourself.

i am extraordinarily grateful to the word warriors who sit as "fact checkers" at the august editorial desks of such as the NY times, the globe & mail, the bbc, the guardian, the WPo, the LA times, the cbc, associated press, agence france-presse, reuters, to name only a few.


.


----------



## wraphter

humble_pie said:


> the Independent (link below) says that nils bildt/tolling has a 2014 criminal conviction in the state of virginia, USA, for assault & battery, obstruction of justice & public inebriation.


O my a criminal conviction for assault and battery etc. I'll see your assault and battery and raise you a double murder
by one of the organizers of the upcomng anti-Trump women's march. 

http://nypost.com/2017/02/25/the-next-womens-march-is-co-organized-by-a-terrorist/



> On March 8, organizers seem to be aiming for a different vibe than the librarians-in-*****-hats element that made the first women’s march after Trump’s inauguration so adorable.
> 
> Instead of milling around Washington, organizers have in mind a “general strike” called the Day without a Woman. In a manifesto published in The Guardian on Feb. 6, the brains behind the movement are calling for a “new wave of militant feminist struggle.” That’s right: militant, not peaceful.
> .............
> 
> *The document was co-authored by, among others, Rasmea Yousef Odeh, a convicted terrorist. Odeh, a Palestinian, was convicted in Israel in 1970 for her part in two terrorist bombings, one of which killed two students while they were shopping for groceries. She spent 10 years in prison for her crimes.* She then managed to become a US citizen in 2004 by lying about her past (great detective work, INS: Next time, use Google) but was subsequently convicted, in 2014, of immigration fraud for the falsehoods. However, she won the right to a new trial (set for this spring) by claiming she had been suffering from PTSD at the time she lied on her application. Oh, and in her time as a citizen, she worked for a while as an ObamaCare navigator.
> 
> The bristling tone of the manifesto and its call for a “militant” uprising are yet another indicator that liberals are increasingly willing to justify violence in the name of opposing Trump.


Fake news----how about a fake immigration interview?


----------



## sags

The fact that Trump isn't particularly interested in the "real" news, when he has access to the best intelligence gathering in the world, but prefers to draw his conclusions from snippets on Fox News is particularly troublesome and a little strange.

How many intelligent people would choose snippets from Fox News over being briefed by US intelligence agencies ?

Curiosity alone...........would have people jostling for seats in the briefings. But not Trump. Apparently real life doesn't hold his interest.


----------



## new dog

Maybe he doesn't trust what he is getting US intelligence agencies. Although one shouldn't trust Fox news either or CNN for that matter. There is so much misinformation and holding back of information that it is hard to know who to trust.


----------



## sags

Then Trump would have a very difficult time performing his most important responsibility of defending the US.


----------



## new dog

So what do the forum buddies think of the Dems sitting and not caring about the slain navy seal.

http://www.infowars.com/ex-hillary-...y-widow-honored-during-trump-speech-an-idiot/

The Dems blasted Trump for the Khan job thing even though Trump didn't really criticize his son. I guess it is fine to go after anybody even an American war hero's widow as long as you are a Democrat.


----------



## mordko

NY Times publishes enemy propaganda 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/...nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share&_r=0


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> So what do the forum buddies think of the Dems sitting and not caring about the slain navy seal.


So far they have been silent. That usually happens when Democrat lies or hypocrisy is pointed out, or when one of their claims is proven false. Then, 2 days later it's all forgotten as if it never happened.

Some things go beyond party lines and the Democrats proved how bitter and divisive that they really are. The bad news for the Democrats is that all the people watching on TV saw them sitting there in angry silence, and many of them won't forget.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> So far they have been silent. That usually happens when Democrat lies or hypocrisy is pointed out, or when one of their claims is proven false. Then, 2 days later it's all forgotten as if it never happened.
> 
> Some things go beyond party lines and the Democrats proved how bitter and divisive that they really are. The bad news for the Democrats is that all the people watching on TV saw them sitting there in angry silence, and many of them won't forget.


New dog's link was to Alex Jones' infowars. What more needs to be said about the credibility of that site that hasn't already been said a dozen times? It specializes in false outrage about falsehoods.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> New dog's link was to Alex Jones' infowars. That site specializes in faux outrage about things that didn't happen. What more needs to be said?


CNN also specializes in faux outrage.

Regardless, no matter who reports what, the Democrats showed their true lack of character the other day. They are nothing but a bunch of vindictive, petty, crybabies. Every temper tantrum they throw reaffirms that Trump was the right choice and makes Trump 2020 more and more likely. Some of them may even realize how bad they look, but they're too immature to stop.

As you said...nothing more needs to be said. It's all on full display for everyone to see.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> CNN also specializes in faux outrage.
> 
> Regardless, no matter who reports what, the Democrats showed their true lack of character the other day. They are nothing but a bunch of vindictive, petty, crybabies. Every temper tantrum they throw reaffirms that Trump was the right choice and makes Trump 2020 more and more likely. Some of them may even realize how bad they look, but they're too immature to stop.
> 
> As you said...nothing more needs to be said. It's all on full display for everyone to see.


Have you seen a presidential address to congress before? The president's team claps like trained seals. The opposition looks annoyed.

Occasionally the president says something about America's greatness or soldiers. Then everybody claps. :torn:


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Occasionally the president says something about America's greatness or soldiers. Then everybody claps. :torn:


Except that several top level Democrats didn't clap or stand with others during a tribute to a fallen soldier...they just sat there. Perhaps you should go back and watch it again as you seem to have conveniently "missed" that...


----------



## olivaw

^That was debunked. Here you go: http://www.snopes.com/democrats-stand-seal-widow/



> Claim: Democrats Bernie Sanders, Keith Ellison, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and Nancy Pelosi refused to stand and clap for Navy SEAL widow Carryn Owens during a presidential speech.
> 
> Rating: FALSE


----------



## new dog

olivaw said:


> New dog's link was to Alex Jones' infowars. What more needs to be said about the credibility of that site that hasn't already been said a dozen times? It specializes in false outrage about falsehoods.


I just used that site for this but you can get it anywhere.

So are you saying the Dems didn't sit down and show disrespect to the widow? Just because it was on the info-wars site doesn't mean it didn't happen. The Khan job guy who is a real con job, was all over the mainstream news at the time.


----------



## sags

Russiagate is evolving into a giant sinkhole sucking the entire Trump Presidency down into it.

Was there anyone in the Trump team who wasn't talking to the Russian spymaster ?


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Was there anyone in the Trump team who wasn't talking to the Russian spymaster ?


Democrats talked to the Russians, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RebL5vmpcMY


----------



## new dog

olivaw said:


> ^That was debunked. Here you go: http://www.snopes.com/democrats-stand-seal-widow/


That was good Olivaw. I was rushing out the door to go to the gym and posted to quickly. I could have quickly deleted my message but thought that is what this thread is about so I let it stand. Some Dems were still idiots about it but not to the extent the article suggests.


----------



## new dog

Bass clearly Dems can do whatever they want or haven't you got the memo yet. Republicans can't get away with anything only democrats can.


----------



## sags

Oh oh..........the Trump administration is feeling the heat.

They now admit that Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner talked to the Russian with Mike Flynn.

They knew it and denied it all this time. They called it fake news and said the intelligence agencies and media were corrupt.

Jeff Sessions lied to Congress verbally and written in the record transcript. He had the opportunity to correct the record.

What are they trying to hide ?

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.


----------



## new dog

Is Obama planning an insurgency against Donald Trump. It seems they are cooking up something and with all this Russia stuff and so on even though all of it is just another day in the life of most US politicians. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ante-Valerie-Jarrett-moves-Kaloroma-home.html


----------



## bass player

And meanwhile the media along with some of CMF are completely ignoring the Pakistani Muslims that were employed as IT specialists for the Democrat that are now under criminal investigation for accepting Iraqi money. The supposed Russia claims are likely just a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the Democrats:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/20/e...rity-probe-secretly-took-100k-in-iraqi-money/


----------



## new dog

The crap goes very deep but nothing would be done unless you couldn't ignore it. If Trump was doing the Dem stuff instead of the alleged Russian stuff he would be impeached 10 times over.


----------



## olivaw

The insurgency story in the Daily Bigot (errr.. Daily Mail) appears to be speculative nonsense. There is no source and no verification. http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/02/valerie-jarrett-move-in-obamas/



> The report played heavily on suspicions propagated by conspiracy theory web sites such as InfoWars that Barack Obama is directing an “army” of protesters from his home (a “shadow White House” located in the Kaloroma neighborhood of Washington, D.C.), dispatching minions to crowd demonstrations and town hall meetings ever since President Trump took office.
> 
> Kevin Lewis, Barack Obama’s post-presidency spokesman, called the story “absurd” and devoid of facts, stating to us that Jarrett was neither moving in with the Obamas nor launching a political movement intended to oust President Trump from office.


----------



## bass player

So, if the msm ignores it, then it didn't happen?

You perfectly fit the definition of "useful idiot"...


----------



## new dog

Yes I know Olivaw but something seems strange and so this was a good spec article to post.


----------



## olivaw

If Jarrett actually moves in with the Obamas and they set up a massive network of communication equipment then the article might have some legs. Right now it just seems like a weird conspiracy theory du-jour. 

Maybe the Daily Racist is posting this stuff to appease the Trumps. They are suing the Daily Rag for interfering with Melania's ability to monetize her position as First Lady.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Did you know that the term _useful idiot_ was first used by the Russians who said _useful fools_ (in Russian). Do the Russian consider Trump and his team to be useful fools?


Well, it's obvious that the Pakistani nationals who were put in charge of the Democrat IT system thought that the Democrats were fools. And, it looks like they were right. Perhaps they are the ones who leaked information to the Russians?? I guess we'll find out after the in depth "investigation" is made public


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Well, it's obvious that the Pakistani nationals who were put in charge of the Democrat IT system thought that the Democrats were fools. And, it looks like they were right. Perhaps they are the ones who leaked information to the Russians?? I guess we'll find out after the in depth "investigation" is made public


Those brothers worked on an entirely different IT systems that the private DNC server that was hacked by the Russians.


----------



## sags

Despite all the fake news attempts at misdirection the real news keeps coming out and unless the Flynn resignation, the Sessions recluse and the FBI and Congressional and Senate investigations are fake news.......real news is having a real impact.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Those brothers worked on an entirely different IT systems that the private DNC server that was hacked by the Russians.


What Russian hack? Nothing has been proven other than vague allegation from unnamed Obama lackeys. Based on any lack of evidence of a Russian hack, it is far more likely that the brothers did not limit themselves to hacking only one system. They had the means and the expertise, so at least that has to be considered.


----------



## olivaw

Perhaps you are mixing up stories in a virtuous attemp to seek truth Bass. I know you aren't the type of fellow who would try to distract us from the proven fact of Russian hacking and the abundant evidence of coordination between the Trump team and the Russians.


----------



## new dog

Apparently Nancy Pelosi lied about meeting the Russian Ambassador back in 2010. Trump was having a little fun tweeting that.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...rump-trolls-lying-pelosi-pic-her-and-medvedev


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Apparently Nancy Pelosi lied about meeting the Russian Ambassador back in 2010. Trump was having a little fun tweeting that.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...rump-trolls-lying-pelosi-pic-her-and-medvedev


Gee...I wonder why the media wasn't all over that back in 2010?

Fake news by omission.

I'm sure olivaw has an excuse why this was overlooked, or why it's not relevant


----------



## new dog

Canada's move to ban Islamophobia has even caught the attention of Zerohedge. Samer Majzoub of the Canadian Muslim Forum says this is only the beginning and he is apparently connected to the Muslim Brotherhood. The article goes on to say that such laws are relics of the past. It says even Judaism and Christianity have had no such motions to protect them. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-03/west-submits-blasphemy-laws?page=1


----------



## bass player

Another blatant lie from Don Lemon of CNN falsely claiming that Loretta Lynch recused herself after meeting with Bill Clinton on the plane. Not a single one of the 3 people who were there bothered to correct him

Fake news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-hwxaSiLrY


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Gee...I wonder why the media wasn't all over that back in 2010?
> 
> Fake news by omission.
> 
> I'm sure olivaw has an excuse why this was overlooked, or why it's not relevant


Your utter lack of understanding of 'fake news' makes you look like a foolishly yapping puppy mimicking the TV.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Your utter lack of understanding of 'fake news' makes you look like a foolishly yapping puppy mimicking the TV.


Fake news "by omission"...it shouldn't be that hard to grasp. What part do you need explained?

I suggest that you work on your comprehension skills. They seem to be non-existent...daily life must be a struggle for you


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Canada's move to ban Islamophobia has even caught the attention of Zerohedge. Samer Majzoub of the Canadian Muslim Forum says this is only the beginning and he is apparently connected to the Muslim Brotherhood. The article goes on to say that such laws are relics of the past. It says even Judaism and Christianity have had no such motions to protect them.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-03/west-submits-blasphemy-laws?page=1


There is no move to ban Islamophobia. M-103 is a parliamentary motion. It creates no law and does not direct cabinet to take action. 

There was an Anti-Semitism motion put forth in 2015 by Liberal Irwin Colter. It secured unanimous support. 



> The motion “reaffirms the importance of the Ottawa Protocol on Combating anti-Semitism as a model for domestic and international implementation,” and calls on the government to “continue advancing the combating of anti-Semitism as a domestic and international priority.”


----------



## new dog

Yes, the article by Zerohedge states motion in Canada not law at this time.


----------



## olivaw

The Ottawa Protocol on Combating Antisemitism and the Colter motion commit to the protectiom Judaism in Canada. The zerohedge article left that out. It talked instead about an Ontario provincial motion which does not affect the rest of Canada. That strikes me as an attempt to mislead non Canadians. 

A professional news organization would have acknowledged the Colter motion and the Ottawa Protocol. It would included a discussion of M-103 and our debate over the definition of "Islamophobia". FWIW: Irwin Colter says that he would fully support M-103 if the wording were changed to read "anti-Muslim bigotry". He would also like to see M-103 reference his own 2015 motion.


----------



## new dog

I think the news organizations would skip over the part about Samer Majzoub having ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. There is more then there seems to this story as you pointed out but the story points out other stuff our mainstream media will skip over. All in all it seems like a bad thing for most Canadians down the road.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/06/montreal-the-muslim-brotherhood-at-prayer/


----------



## olivaw

Samer Majzoub is the recipient of Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal for two-decades of public service in Canada. He is all the recipient of Héma-Québec award for volunteer work as organizer of blood drive campaigns in greater Montreal. Seems like a good guy. 

What's with the effort to discredit people by tying them to the Muslim Brotherhood using the Sometimes it's six degrees of Kevin Bacon logic? The Muslim Brotherhood is a legal political and social organization, despite the best efforts of Islamophobes and war hawks to have it designated a terrorist organization. The organization does not strike fear into the heart of the majority. The professional media seldom mentions it because it is not relevant.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> The Muslim Brotherhood is a legal political and social organization, despite the best efforts of Islamophobes and war hawks to have it designated a terrorist organization. The organization does not strike fear into the heart of the majority. The professional media seldom mentions it because it is not relevant.


Lol. Now I know for sure you're a troll. It's simply not possible to be that gullible.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Lol. Now I know for sure you're a troll. It's simply not possible to be that gullible.


Read and learn bassey .... 
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/mark...rhood-be-designated-a-terrorist-organization/



> The short answer is that the Brotherhood is not in a meaningful sense a single organization at all; elements of it can be designated and have been designated, and other elements certainly cannot be. As a whole, it is simply too diffuse and diverse to characterize. And it certainly cannot be said as a whole to engage in terrorism that threatens the United States.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Read and learn bassey ....
> https://www.brookings.edu/blog/mark...rhood-be-designated-a-terrorist-organization/


They are a left leaning group, so their "opinion" is not very surprising.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> They are a left leaning group, so their "opinion" is not very surprising.


Nice try - but a bit predictable. They are the most widely cited think tank by US media and politicians. Brookings gets 53 on the scale (with 1 being the most conservative, 100 being the most liberal).


----------



## new dog

Trump tweet blasts about Obama whispering into Russian President Medvedev's ear that he will have more flexibility after the election in 2012. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...-2012-hot-mic-moment-russia-article-1.2989135


----------



## new dog

Mark Levin says the real scandal much worse then Flynn or Sessions is Obama using the NSA to go after Trump before the election. Also all the stuff after the election to do everything and anything to get after Trump. Of course there is no level the Dems can go that gets condemned or even looked at by anybody. It is nice to have a free ride that everyone will overlook even the people on here.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...bama_spied_on_trump_during_2016_campaign.html

We all know if Trump even did a one tenth of this he would be impeached and the media would destroy him.


----------



## bass player

So, the same media that gleefully reported on leaked Trump phone conversations is now emphatically claiming that there were no wire taps. Therefore, the only explanation is that the previous articles were completely made up.

Trump just got the media to publicly admit that they deal in fake news.


----------



## olivaw

^Did Trump develop this new conspiracy theory himself or did the Kremlin develop it for him?


----------



## bass player

olivaw...answer the question instead of deflecting. It's a very simple question:

How were Trump's phone conversations previously "leaked" if the media now claims that no phone conversations were tapped?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> olivaw...answer the question instead of deflecting. It's a very simple question:


Bass ... this whole conspiracy theory is an attempt by Trump and the Kremlin to deflect. 

Edward Snowden revealed long ago that NSA tapes all conversations between US and certain foreign nations. Trump was not singled out.


----------



## Eder

Looks like Obama administration tapped more than just Trumps phone over the years lol,(think Wikileaks). Makes me grateful we only have to put up with Harper & Junior.


----------



## OhGreatGuru

bass player said:


> ....
> Trump just got the media to publicly admit that they deal in fake news.


The irony (and/or hypocrisy) of a pathological liar and Twitter rumour-monger making claims about fake news seems to be lost on some people.


----------



## bass player

Fake news CNN does it again...cuts off someone who states a fact that they don't like. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXaYPhzdO_U


----------



## bass player

Eder said:


> Looks like Obama administration tapped more than just Trumps phone over the years lol,(think Wikileaks). Makes me grateful we only have to put up with Harper & Junior.


Just imagine the outrage if Bush had tapped Obama's communications. The left would still be outraged. But, when Obama does it it's like it never happened.


----------



## humble_pie

^^

when obama "does it?"
why the present tense?

bass did you know that obama hasn't been US president for nearly 2 months now?

hillary, she's history too
hasn't been heard from in 4 months

the problem for republicans is not old out-of-office democrats
it's how to keep their unhinged president under control while he's still in their ranks


.


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Just imagine the outrage if Bush had tapped Obama's communications. The left would still be outraged. But, when Obama does it it's like it never happened.


Except no evidence has been presented that any such thing has happened. Comey contradicted Trump. The only way such communications may have been intercepted was if they were speaking with Russian diplomats, who are suspected of engaging in espionage and are being monitored for national security reasons. Which comes back to the question of why Trump's entire inner circle has had contact with Russian intelligence operatives.


----------



## sags

I am surprised nobody has manufactured a cuckoo clock with Trump as the cuckoo.

He could pop out every hour with a tweet.


----------



## olivaw

More fake news from the clown-in-chief:


> 122 vicious prisoners, released by the Obama Administration from Gitmo, have returned to the battlefield. Just another terrible decision!
> 24,916 replies 18,573 retweets 71,184 likes


The Office of the Director of National Intelligence clarified that 113 of the 122 former detainees were release by GW Bush, not Barack Obama.


----------



## new dog

We all know everything is a crock and done to try to take down Trump. Otherwise everyone needs to go down and everyone should probably go down. It is unbelievable that everyone is so naive to think only Trump and friends are the crooks or doing anything wrong.

Humble I don't think Obama has gone away and is still active on different fronts to damage Trump's presidency so he is not history yet.


----------



## new dog

If true Olivaw, then more stupidity from Trump not getting his facts straight.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Except no evidence has been presented that any such thing has happened. Comey contradicted Trump. The only way such communications may have been intercepted was if they were speaking with Russian diplomats, who are suspected of engaging in espionage and are being monitored for national security reasons. Which comes back to the question of why Trump's entire inner circle has had contact with Russian intelligence operatives.


There has been no evidence that Trump's people spoke to Russian intelligence agents. Perhaps some of them may have spoken to ambassadors, but that's part of the job. And, of course, it was Obama who set up a meeting with Sessions and a Russian ambassador. 

Funny how all the media "missed" Obama's hand in this, and also completely "missed" that Pelosi and about 30 other Democrats also spoke to Russian ambassadors during the campaign. Yup...they missed all that but magically managed to find out about the one lone instance set up by Obama when Sessions spoke to a Russian ambassador.

No one buys the BS anymore. Perhaps you do, but that's your problem.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> If true Olivaw, then more stupidity from Trump not getting his facts straight.


It's true new dog.

The Hill: *White House corrects Trump’s erroneous Gitmo tweet*


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> It's true new dog.
> 
> The Hill: *White House corrects Trump’s erroneous Gitmo tweet*


No problem...there's still plenty of time for the ones that Obama did release in his last few days in office to wreck havoc.


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> No one buys the BS anymore. Perhaps you do, but that's your problem.


It isn't BS. It's established fact. We know that Trump's people spoke with Russians. Flynn was forced to resign after he lied about it. Sessions was forced to recuse himself after he lied about it. 

It's not the crime the brings them down, it's the coverup. The Trump folks were caught lying about Russia. Why lie if they have nothing to hide?


----------



## new dog

Not that Obama and such did any better they just hid it better and didn't have media holding his feet to the fire.

Having said that Trump and friends know they are under the microscope and should know how to do better job.


----------



## sags

In due time all will be revealed.

Where there is smoke there is fire, and the Trump White House is already starting to smolder.


----------



## new dog

So sags all the things almost every US politician in Congress and past politicians have done don't have to be revealed, only Trump and his pals have to be revealed.


----------



## andrewf

Yeah, if Trump et al are traitors in the pocket of a foreign dictator, that has to be revealed.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Yeah, if Trump et al are traitors in the pocket of a foreign dictator, that has to be revealed.


Of course. Yet, in spite of all the digging and all the taping of phone conversations, they have found absolutely nothing.


----------



## new dog

Wasn't Clinton making deals in the 90's with the Chinese selling them military technology. Or how about the deal Obama made with Iran or his oopsy arming of ISIS and other terrorists. Of course everything they did is fine. If Obama was still in office and doing the identical stuff that Trump and friends are said to be doing now it would be a non issue and we all know that to be true.


----------



## new dog

Women plan protest and pledge to avoid spending money. Here is a protest that we can all encourage our women to get involved in. In fact it would be great if the avoid spending money part continued even after the protests.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...men-pledge-avoid-spending-money-men-celebrate


----------



## bass player

Hilarious...protesting "sexism" by not shopping. You can't make this stuff up.

The stupidity and hypocrisy of the left is a truly amazing sight to behold.


----------



## bass player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cruh2p_Wh_4


----------



## new dog

Election can only be hacked if whoever Obama's real boss is says it is and now it is. Hillary was supposed to win so this was never supposed to happen.


----------



## olivaw

The DNC and Podesta's email was hacked by Russia and released through wikileaks. Russian propaganda outlets also fed fake news stories and talking points to certain Trump-friendly sites. The question isn't if it worked. The question is, did the Trump campaign coordinate with Russia and is Trump beholden to Putin?


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> The DNC and Podesta's email was hacked by Russia and released through wikileaks. Russian propaganda outlets also fed fake news stories and talking points to certain Trump-friendly sites. The question isn't if it worked. The question is, did the Trump campaign coordinate with Russia and is Trump beholden to Putin?


Logic fail. If the Russian media fed stories to Trump friendly news sites, then how exactly did that change the mind of Hillary voters? Are you suggesting that Hillary voters would have been frequenting Trump friendly sites and been swayed? Lol


----------



## andrewf

Logic fail.

Not every voter is neatly sorted into pro-Hillary and pro-Trump camps. The vast majority are the mushy middle, getting their news from facebook and don't spend much time thinking about politics.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> Logic fail.
> 
> Not every voter is neatly sorted into pro-Hillary and pro-Trump camps. The vast majority are the mushy middle, getting their news from facebook and don't spend much time thinking about politics.


Fakebook isn't Trump friendly either. In fact, one could argue that due to Fakebook's left bias, that they took votes away from Trump.

Therefore, using leftist logic, Fakebook tried to hack the election...


----------



## new dog

Of course now we know the CIA is hacking everything and spying everywhere. They can even hack your TV and devices, visit your living or bedroom. However as long as it isn't Russia doing it then all is good and everyone is happy.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-08/most-shocking-revelation-cia-spying-scandal


----------



## SMK

^ According to a CBC report, the hacking can be made to look like some other country did it, you know, the usual suspects like China and Russia.


----------



## bass player

The new York Times gleefully reported leaked information that they said came from wiretaps, and then once Trump complained that he was wire tapped, they immediately said "where is the proof?"

If there was no proof, then where is the New York Times retraction and apology for lying in the first place?


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> Of course now we know the CIA is hacking everything and spying everywhere. They can even hack your TV and devices, visit your living or bedroom. However as long as it isn't Russia doing it then all is good and everyone is happy.


Everyone isn't happy about this. 

They share information and techniques with CSIS. So Canadian intelligence has access to technology to spy on you through your (Samsung) TV and other devices too.


----------



## Spudd

bass player said:


> The new York Times gleefully reported leaked information that they said came from wiretaps, and then once Trump complained that he was wire tapped, they immediately said "where is the proof?"
> 
> If there was no proof, then where is the New York Times retraction and apology for lying in the first place?


Do you have a link to the article where they reported that?


----------



## bass player

Spudd said:


> Do you have a link to the article where they reported that?


I guess you somehow missed all the stories over the last several weeks about the content of leaked phone calls that suggested that Trump's people conspired with the evil Russians. Please explain how this was known if no one recorded the calls...


----------



## sags

Of course they monitored the calls. US intelligence routinely monitors communications of foreign agents.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Of course they monitored the calls. US intelligence routinely monitors communications of foreign agents.


And US citizens.


----------



## new dog

The funny thing is I have heard about all this hacking and spying from so called fake news sites for years, it was of no surprise to me. I even knew about turning your phone on and all sorts of stuff. It is all new to the mainstream media of course or they chose not to report it until they had to. Everything is a con and people are being led around by the media and officials to what they want them to see. Most people are very happy with the propaganda and lies and don't care.

Of course they do care about anything and everything that Trump does even how he wears his tie or sits on the furniture. They care about this because their masters told them to, so for many if you think you have a mind of your own, you do not.


----------



## sags

bass player said:


> And US citizens.


That isn't the purpose of the US intelligence agencies, except for security circumstances.

There is no way to monitor and coagulate the traffic produced by 350 million people.

The more people being monitored, the more difficult it becomes to find the "nuggets" of information they are seeking to deter terrorist plans.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> That isn't the purpose of the US intelligence agencies, except for security circumstances.
> 
> There is no way to monitor and coagulate the traffic produced by 350 million people.
> 
> The more people being monitored, the more difficult it becomes to find the "nuggets" of information they are seeking to deter terrorist plans.


I agree that they don't care about the vast majority of the 350 million...but they do care about a few thousand people of interest, and one doesn't have to be a terror threat to be a "person of interest".


----------



## olivaw

Edward Snowden spilled the beans on wiretapping years ago. The NSA routinely records phone calls between the US and certain other countries and uses software to scan for "suspicious"phrases and words.


----------



## lonewolf :)

Canadian boarder patrol union says Canadian boarders like Swiss cheese & the government is low balling the numbers that are coming through. I think the government is lying to us


----------



## new dog

Most likely, the government is probably lying just like they do in Europe about migrant crimes. Or in Sweden were they just outright lie about everything regarding muslim immigrants.


----------



## sags

As I recall, there was a guy near our city who was intercepted getting into a taxi with a bomb. He was heading to a downtown mall.

The interception was a result of US intelligence officials notifying Canadian police about his online activity.

Score one for the good guys.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/leos-taxi-aaron-driver-1.3717928


----------



## new dog

Dutch authorities deport Turkish family minister. Apparently she was to stir up Turkish voters before the March 15 election where the Dutch Donald Trump is the front runner. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...nsulate-rotterdam-dutch-embassy-turkey-closed

Sounds like a good idea to me but I haven't really heard much about it before this news.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> Most likely, the government is probably lying just like they do in Europe about migrant crimes. Or in Sweden were they just outright lie about everything regarding muslim immigrants.


The attacks were called "lone wolf" attacks until there became too many for anyone to consider them isolated incidents. So, now they have changed the narrative to "mentally disturbed".


----------



## new dog

Hey lonewolf is a good guy on the forum bass, so it is good they changed the title to mentally disturbed.


----------



## new dog

On a more dangerous war note Trump is facing tension from North Korea and Iran as well as problems in Syria with the Kurds and the Turks. This also has China involved and Russia may be losing a little patience with Trump as well. Assad is also critical of the US involvement and Trump. Trump also has a war machine that wants to be fed and they may have a lot of pressure on him to get more involved in these areas. So in this light it does look like he is turning from his campaign promises here and global tension is really rising.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-12/global-leaders-rattle-their-sabers-world-marches-toward-war


----------



## s1231

- Tulsi Gabbard: To Solve Refugee Crisis, Stop Funding Terrorism:
http://themindunleashed.com/2017/03/tulsi-gabbard-solve-refugee-crisis-stop-funding-terrorism.html

Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, the politician who previously accused the U.S. of arming ISIS, is still calling on the U.S. government to stop its disastrous regime change policies in the Middle East.

According to a press release (February 28, 2017)

Gabbard said, 
“In the face of unimaginable heartbreak, Tima has been a voice for the voiceless, a champion for refugees worldwide, and a strong advocate for ending the regime change war in Syria. I am honored to welcome her to Washington tonight as we raise our voices to call on our nation's leaders to end the counterproductive regime change war in Syria that has caused great human suffering, refugees, loss of life, and devastation. 

We urge leaders in Congress to pass the Stop Arming Terrorists Act and end our destructive policy of using American taxpayer dollars to provide direct and indirect support to armed militants allied with terrorist groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS in Syria, who are fighting to overthrow the Syrian government.”


Tima Kurdi said, 
“I am proud to stand with Tulsi and support her work to end regime change war in Syria. My people have suffered for more than six years—enough is enough. Tulsi understands that arming the so-called "rebels" in Syria has only led to more bloodshed, more suffering, and created more refugees. A military solution in Syria is not the answer. 

I hope that President Trump will stop arming terrorists and commit to a political solution in Syria—it is the only way to restore peace.”


----------



## new dog

S1231, finally a democrat who is speaking like a democrat should be speaking. Smart woman and it sounds like she should running to be the next leader of the Dems.


----------



## gibor365

> Gabbard opposes the US removing Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad from power. She has described US regime-change involvement in Syria as a source of the Syrian refugee crisis


imho, very soon CNN and other very :liberal: media will "prove" that she is Putin's spy


----------



## new dog

Good link from zero hedge and scroll to the bottom. You will see that the article isn't as slanted as you would believe.

We are the new Mexican destination but the border seems to be doing a good job.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...anada-immigrating-us-overnow-its-canadas-turn


----------



## Eclectic12

new dog said:


> The funny thing is I have heard about all this hacking and spying from so called fake news sites for years, it was of no surprise to me. I even knew about turning your phone on and all sorts of stuff. It is all new to the mainstream media of course or they chose not to report it until they had to.


Weird considering I can recall NY Times, USA Today and other media articles about this sort of stuff from a decade ago. 


Cheers


----------



## bass player

Eclectic12 said:


> Weird considering I can recall NY Times, USA Today and other media articles about this sort of stuff from a decade ago.


The NYT referred to intercepted phone calls a couple months ago, but as soon as Trump referred to "tapped" calls they did a complete 180 and pretended that they never said that and now they demand that Trump provide proof.

Why don't they just print the proof that they used to verify their previous story?


----------



## Eclectic12

^^^

The way I read the the comment was that it was about US gov't hacking/spying in general instead of the alleged Trump calls and what NYT is alleged to have written about intercepted calls in the last year or so.


Cheers


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> The NYT referred to intercepted phone calls a couple months ago, but as soon as Trump referred to "tapped" calls they did a complete 180 and pretended that they never said that and now they demand that Trump provide proof.
> 
> Why don't they just print the proof that they used to verify their previous story?


Tapped implied Trump's org was the target of the surveillance. If the target was Russian diplomats/intelligence agents whom happened to have contact with people close to Trump, that is a different matter.


----------



## new dog

This is interesting a lap top containing Hillary's e-mail investigation and the Trump floor plan was stolen from a secret service agent. Funny how these things happen isn't it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...plans-stolen-secret-service-article-1.3001078


----------



## new dog

Andrewf everyone has had contact with Russia on all sides it would seem but only contact that deals with Trump ever seem to matter.


----------



## mordko

This article explains what the fake news are all about. Part of a larger strategy.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/russias-plot-against-the-west-214925


----------



## new dog

There is no doubt fake news coming out of Russia like there is suppressed news coming out of the west. The west has done such a terrible job in the middle east and the refugee crisis that it has made the bed for Russia to sleep in if that is Russia's wish. You also don't want western censorship on news because of how poorly the mainstream news already operates. What we need is a lot more real truth coming out and people we can trust in the mainstream media and in government.

The government and mainstream media instead have given us little to trust and most of the US government is bought off by special interests. If we were to let the west complete its plans, flooding in Muslims without much opposition then we wouldn't want to live with what they would bring us even if Russia goes away.


----------



## new dog

NSA and FBI say Russia had no influence in the US electoral process.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-20/comey-russians-concluded-trump-was-hopeless-last-august

It comes from Zerohedge but the live video link says it all.


----------



## bass player

And, of course, the Democrats are really the ones who have financial ties to Russia that need to be investigated. Campaign manager John Podesta's brother Tony is just one example:

"Podesta’s efforts were a key part of under-the-radar lobbying during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign led mainly by veteran Democratic strategists to remove sanctions against Sberbank and VTB Capital, Russia’s second largest bank.

The two Russian banks spent more than $700,000 in 2016 on Washington lobbyists as they sought to end the U.S. sanctions, according to Senate lobbying disclosure forms*and documents filed with the Department of Justice."

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/06/e...got-170k-to-end-us-sanctions-on-russian-bank/


----------



## new dog

I suppose one day the America people will figure out that they are all dirty including the media, NSA, FBI and the CIA. It seems whoever is against Trump, think only he needs to be investigated or only he can do wrong.


----------



## new dog

Did anybody from Toronto go to the Canadian Real Estate Wealth Expo. Tim Bergin saw the advertisement on Subway trains and figured he had to go to witness the true top in the Toronto real estate market.

https://onbeyondinvesting.com/blogs...-canadian-housing-market-so-you-didnt-have-to


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

Ha, ha,ha. And I had to go to Bergin's website to see what kind of a$$hole asks $500/yr, or $50 per "newsletter" to give you a cut and paste analyis of one company. Oops, I see the example MCR is down 9% since it was recommended in Feb.
Talk about fake. You need to be careful whose websites you read dog. You're barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## Spudd

new dog said:


> NSA and FBI say Russia had no influence in the US electoral process.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-20/comey-russians-concluded-trump-was-hopeless-last-august
> 
> It comes from Zerohedge but the live video link says it all.


They said they had no evidence that any votes were tampered with by the Russians. That's not the same thing as saying "they had no influence". I don't think anyone thought they were tampering with votes, the main story is that they were planting fake news in order to influence voters. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/20/us/politics/intelligence-committee-russia-donald-trump.html


----------



## bass player

Got any examples of Russian planted fake news?

Got any examples that the so-called fake news stories convinced someone to change their vote?

Has anyone come forward and announced that they would have voted for Hillary, but changed their mind based on reading planted fake news stories?


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

Related to fake news.
You have probably heard in the news about Kayla who is in Costa Rica with nature boy. 
In the link below is today's video, the two of them (mostly him) explaining that she is going home to halt the escalation of news speculation and growth in his notoriety.

The first part of the video is his characterization of fake news in the media and his experience as a black guy in the US. 

The full video quickly becomes long and rambling. The guy clearly revels in hearing himself and his ideas. He is a nut bar, I'm not sure if he is a dangerous one (he claims not). I would be glad to see my daughter leaving him, age 21 or not.

http://vocm.com/news/reid-family-working-with-etherians-head-to-bring-kayla-home/


----------



## SMK

I think some of Clinton's early nose-holding supporters may have changed their votes based more on Comey's last minute email investigation than on fake news.


----------



## bass player

SMK said:


> I think some of Clinton's early nose-holding supporters may have changed their votes based more on Comey's last minute email investigation than on fake news.


Her unhinged "why am I not 50 points ahead" rant may have nudged a couple others over, too. I wonder how the Russians convinced her to sabotage herself like that?


----------



## andrewf

bass player said:


> Got any examples of Russian planted fake news?
> 
> Got any examples that the so-called fake news stories convinced someone to change their vote?
> 
> Has anyone come forward and announced that they would have voted for Hillary, but changed their mind based on reading planted fake news stories?


US outlets parroting RT, that's a straightline back to Putin.


----------



## bass player

^

Yup...still no proof.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> Her unhinged "why am I not 50 points ahead" rant may have nudged a couple others over, too. I wonder how the Russians convinced her to sabotage herself like that?


She is not that stupid-maybe it wasn't Crooked Hillary at all-it kinda looked like Putin in drag.


----------



## new dog

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Ha, ha,ha. And I had to go to Bergin's website to see what kind of a$$hole asks $500/yr, or $50 per "newsletter" to give you a cut and paste analyis of one company. Oops, I see the example MCR is down 9% since it was recommended in Feb.
> Talk about fake. You need to be careful whose websites you read dog. You're barking up the wrong tree.


I just happened to come across this article but I don't read or subscribe to his news letter. It does sound expensive though, for what sounds like poor advice from what you say. If what he says is true though and the real estate advertising was everywhere then it does sound like a top. I don't live in Ontario so I was wondering if anyone had come across this. However real estate in Vancouver and Toronto have been very high for a very long time so who knows when it will end.


----------



## bass player

Nelley said:


> She is not that stupid-maybe it wasn't Crooked Hillary at all-it kinda looked like Putin in drag.


She looks more like Yeltsin after a 3-day binge...


----------



## olivaw

Bass and Nelley
B & N
Boris and Natasha 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov#/media/File:Boris_natasha_fearless.jpg


----------



## new dog

Wiki-leaks reveal "Marble" proof CIA disguises their hacks as Russian, Chinese, Arabic and so on. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-disguises-their-hacks-russian-chinese-arabic


----------



## sags

A President who can inspire and lift people with a speech is a powerful aspect of governing.

Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Presidents Reagan and George H. Bush all shared their vision for the future of America.

What did President George W. Bush say as President Trump finished his Inaugural Address ?

_According to New York Magazine, when Trump finished his speech - loaded with terms like “American carnage” - the former commander-in-chief dropped decorum.

“That was some weird s---,” he reportedly said, according to three separate sources who heard him.
_

Trump does not inspire the people, in either words or deeds. 

He is the standard bearer for the alt right and those who want to reshape the US to their angry, bitter image.


----------



## new dog

Or you have the others the neocons like Hillary who inspire people with their speeches and do the opposite. Say great things to minorities while their neighbourhoods go down the drain. Create and want wars and then let the people die, all the while saying the great things they are doing to the world.


----------



## bass player

Sure, a lot of people and the media fell head over heels for Obama's "It's all about me" rambling talks about nothing. The reality is that he actually accomplished very little other than chipping away at democracy. He left the US in worse shape than before he took office.


----------



## bass player

One person takes a look at the very close connections between the media and the Democrats. How is it possible to be unbiased when your spouse works for or used to work for the Democrats?:


"In 2012, CNN hired Virginia Moseley as its Washington deputy bureau chief and vice president. Its listing for her on its website mentioned her previous work at ABC News and CBS News, as well as her bachelor’s degree from Harvard. Not mentioned was Tom Nides, whom she married in 1992. Nides served as deputy secretary of state for Management and Resources when Hillary Clinton was secretary of state.

And ABC News producer Ian Cameron married Susan Rice in 1992. Rice became the US ambassador to the United Nations in 2009. Cameron left ABC a year later.

And ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe in 2012 married Katie Hogan, an Obama spokeswoman who left to become spokeswoman for Organizing for Action, a tax-exempt group that pushed Obama’s agenda.

And Michael Gottlieb worked in the White House counsel’s office throughout Obama’s first term. He married NPR reporter Ari Shapiro in 2004, who covered the White House from 2010 to 2014.

And Sari Horwitz covered the Department of Justice for the Washington Post beginning in January 2012. Her husband was William B. Schultz, the general counsel of the Department of Human Services.

And Neil King, a political reporter for the Wall Street Journal, was married to Vice President Joe Biden’s spokeswoman, Shailagh Murray. She was a former Washington Post reporter.

And ABC News reporter Claire Shipman was married to Jay Carney, who served as President Obama’s second official spokesman. Another familial conflict involved Ben Rhodes, Obama’s deputy national security advisor for strategic communications, who bragged in 2016 about how he misled reporters about the Iranian nuclear program, which helped sway public support of this foreign policy disaster. His brother was David Rhodes, president of CBS.

And ABC News president Ben Sherwood was the brother of Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, who joined the Obama administration in 2009."

http://donsurber.blogspot.ca/2017/04/when-media-is-married-to-government.html#more


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> One person takes a look at the very close connections between the media and the Democrats. How is it possible to be unbiased when your spouse works for or used to work for the Democrats?:
> 
> 
> "In 2012, CNN hired Virginia Moseley as its Washington deputy bureau chief and vice president. Its listing for her on its website mentioned her previous work at ABC News and CBS News, as well as her bachelor’s degree from Harvard. Not mentioned was Tom Nides, whom she married in 1992. Nides served as deputy secretary of state for Management and Resources when Hillary Clinton was secretary of state.
> 
> And ABC News producer Ian Cameron married Susan Rice in 1992. Rice became the US ambassador to the United Nations in 2009. Cameron left ABC a year later.
> 
> And ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe in 2012 married Katie Hogan, an Obama spokeswoman who left to become spokeswoman for Organizing for Action, a tax-exempt group that pushed Obama’s agenda.
> 
> And Michael Gottlieb worked in the White House counsel’s office throughout Obama’s first term. He married NPR reporter Ari Shapiro in 2004, who covered the White House from 2010 to 2014.
> 
> And Sari Horwitz covered the Department of Justice for the Washington Post beginning in January 2012. Her husband was William B. Schultz, the general counsel of the Department of Human Services.
> 
> And Neil King, a political reporter for the Wall Street Journal, was married to Vice President Joe Biden’s spokeswoman, Shailagh Murray. She was a former Washington Post reporter.
> 
> And ABC News reporter Claire Shipman was married to Jay Carney, who served as President Obama’s second official spokesman. Another familial conflict involved Ben Rhodes, Obama’s deputy national security advisor for strategic communications, who bragged in 2016 about how he misled reporters about the Iranian nuclear program, which helped sway public support of this foreign policy disaster. His brother was David Rhodes, president of CBS.
> 
> And ABC News president Ben Sherwood was the brother of Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, who joined the Obama administration in 2009."
> 
> http://donsurber.blogspot.ca/2017/04/when-media-is-married-to-government.html#more



Boris they discontinued the Social Page at newspapers three decades ago, you hadn't heard?

please be careful Boris. More blunders like that & they'll be thinking glue factory for yourself as well as Natasha.

.


----------



## bass player

As expected...you deflect rather than respond with a factual argument. That's rule #2 of any progressive "discussion".

Rule #1 is to scream racist or sexist.


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> As expected...you deflect rather than respond with a factual argument.



lol who is going to bother to respond to a paranoid rant gainst weddings?

.


----------



## bass player

humble_pie said:


> lol who is going to bother to respond to a paranoid rant gainst weddings?


Yup...call it a rant against weddings, rather than address the close ties between media and Democrats.

Rule #2: Deflect, and if it doesn't work, deflect louder


----------



## humble_pie

bass player said:


> Yup...call it a rant against weddings, rather than address the close ties between media and Democrats.
> 
> Rule #2: Deflect, and if it doesn't work, deflect louder



gosh, maybe try lightening up for a change? 

when have there not been ultra-close connections marital & otherwise between those who hold political power - in any party - & those who have communications power


.


----------



## SWIG

The mainstream media has gone from suggesting that Russia hacked the Democrats emails to blatantly claiming that they tried to swing the election. That's fake news.


----------



## new dog

There is a lot of fake news going around by every source of media, which is why trust in media and governments around the world is dropping.


----------



## new dog

Russia's claiming that they have intel indicating that actors are bringing in Chemicals to be used in Syria so they can be pinned onto Assad. It makes perfect sense to do this for people who don't care about anyone's lives. Chemical weapon attacks have more impact then any amount of opposition the rebels can muster against Assad so why not do it. If we see more attacks then you know we have false flag attacks occurring.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ag-strikes-are-being-prepared-damascus-region


----------



## 5Lgreenback

No mainstream media source that I've seen in the US or Canada has any right to call any other news sources fake news. Of course, the governments are trying to make issue of this so they can further come in and censor what information we can and can't receive. 

As people are moving to newer less mainstream sources to get their information from such as numerous growing channels on Youtube (Philip DeFracno, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, David Pakman amongst countless others) many are realizing just how corrupt the mainstream media has become. As a result many of these Youtube channels have sponsors wanting to pull their funding and youtube is starting to try to sensor content. If it continues I imagine a newer platform will take viewers from youtube as most sane people believe in freedom of speech and information.


----------



## bass player

5Lgreenback said:


> No mainstream media source that I've seen in the US or Canada has any right to call any other news sources fake news. Of course, the governments are trying to make issue of this so they can further come in and censor what information we can and can't receive.
> 
> As people are moving to newer less mainstream sources to get their information from such as numerous growing channels on Youtube (Philip DeFracno, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, David Pakman amongst countless others) many are realizing just how corrupt the mainstream media has become. As a result many of these Youtube channels have sponsors wanting to pull their funding and youtube is starting to try to sensor content. If it continues I imagine a newer platform will take viewers from youtube as most sane people believe in freedom of speech and information.


YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Google all routinely censor content from right of centre. MSM media does the same thing, and universities which are predominantly left also censor people right of centre. The recent incident at Berkley is a perfect example, and there are dozens of other examples of the same behavior.

Censorship of opposing ideas and information is almost exclusively done by the left and is almost non-existent among right of centre groups.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

bass player said:


> YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Google all routinely censor content from right of centre. MSM media does the same thing, and universities which are predominantly left also censor people right of centre. The recent incident at Berkley is a perfect example, and there are dozens of other examples of the same behavior.
> 
> Censorship of opposing ideas and information is almost exclusively done by the left and is almost non-existent among right of centre groups.


Absolutely. This has taken place over the last 40-50 years virtually unchallenged. So the movement and culture has actually moved away from classical liberalism into what we see today as a frankly dangerously far left ideology that has western culture circling the drain. It's so out of hand and radicalized now that this movement classifies liberals (many in this movement call themselves liberals but they are far from it) and moderate conservatives as "far right" and "alt right" beliefs. The very values that built the most successful and fair, prosperous and advanced civilizations in human history are now demonized. 

Once you see this movement and way of thinking for what it is (I'm ashamed to admit I was once part of it, the indoctrination starts young), you can't help but realize how destructive and anti-intellectual it is.


----------



## Nelley

5Lgreenback said:


> No mainstream media source that I've seen in the US or Canada has any right to call any other news sources fake news. Of course, the governments are trying to make issue of this so they can further come in and censor what information we can and can't receive.
> 
> As people are moving to newer less mainstream sources to get their information from such as numerous growing channels on Youtube (Philip DeFracno, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, David Pakman amongst countless others) many are realizing just how corrupt the mainstream media has become. As a result many of these Youtube channels have sponsors wanting to pull their funding and youtube is starting to try to sensor content. If it continues I imagine a newer platform will take viewers from youtube as most sane people believe in freedom of speech and information.


GOOGLE (the deep state) owns Youtube-what they want eventually is a total lockdown of info-similar to what they have in Commie China-cheered on by many of the braindead sheep.


----------



## Nelley

5Lgreenback said:


> Absolutely. This has taken place over the last 40-50 years virtually unchallenged. So the movement and culture has actually moved away from classical liberalism into what we see today as a frankly dangerously far left ideology that has western culture circling the drain. It's so out of hand and radicalized now that this movement classifies liberals (many in this movement call themselves liberals but they are far from it) and moderate conservatives as "far right" and "alt right" beliefs. The very values that built the most successful and fair, prosperous and advanced civilizations in human history are now demonized.
> 
> Once you see this movement and way of thinking for what it is (I'm ashamed to admit I was once part of it, the indoctrination starts young), you can't help but realize how destructive and anti-intellectual it is.


 No need to feel ashamed-we were all part of it-that is the system-some of us eventually grow up-most don't.


----------



## bass player

5Lgreenback said:


> Once you see this movement and way of thinking for what it is (I'm ashamed to admit I was once part of it, the indoctrination starts young), you can't help but realize how destructive and anti-intellectual it is.


Yes, it's indoctrination. The very last thing the left wants are people who think for themselves. Progressive ideology always collapses when confronted with facts or reason.


----------



## bass player

It's not so bad here in Canada, but it's still bad. One thing that has come out of the US election is that a couple people I know who used to believe everything they heard from the media finally caught on to the BS and no longer trust the msm media.


----------



## olivaw

The Trump administration has grown weary of Russian inspired fake news and conspiracy theories. 

*White House: Russia, Syrian regime trying to 'confuse' the world over chemical attacks*



> Washington (CNN)The White House said Tuesday the Syrian regime and Russia are trying to "confuse the world community about who is responsible for using chemical weapons against the Syrian people in this and earlier attacks."


----------



## gibor365

> many are realizing just how corrupt the mainstream media has become.


 Absolutely! Only people like oliwav believe CNN


----------



## gibor365

*Idlib ‘chemical attack’ was false flag to set Assad up, more may come – Putin*


> Russia has information of a potential incident similar to the alleged chemical attack in Idlib province, possibly targeting a Damascus suburb, President Vladimir Putin said. The goal is to discredit the government of Syrian President Assad,


https://www.rt.com/news/384333-putin-idlib-attack-provocation/


----------



## andrewf

Nelley said:


> GOOGLE (the deep state) owns Youtube-what they want eventually is a total lockdown of info-similar to what they have in Commie China-cheered on by many of the braindead sheep.


Google is not the 'deep state'. I mean, come on. They may be compelled to do things by NSA/FBI/CIA/etc., but I don't think it is too enthusiastically.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> Google is not the 'deep state'. I mean, come on. They may be compelled to do things by NSA/FBI/CIA/etc., but I don't think it is too enthusiastically.


Seriously-how can you or I know if it is "enthusiastic"-I don't think Schmidt or the other top guys care or not. Who knows.


----------



## new dog

Google is just following orders whether it is part of the deep state or not. Mainstream media is also compelled to follow the orders and that is why they can't show you a lot of the real news out there.

So called fake news is a threat to the deep state and must be muzzled. 

I posted the same story above Gibor and it makes sense for the rebels to use chemicals and then blame Assad.


----------



## olivaw

gibor365 said:


> Absolutely! Only people like oliwav believe CNN


I suspect a lot of people find independent journalistic organizations like CNN to be more compelling that a Russian state propaganda website like RT.COM.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> Google is just following orders whether it is part of the deep state or not. Mainstream media is also compelled to follow the orders and that is why they can't show you a lot of the real news out there.
> 
> So called fake news is a threat to the deep state and must be muzzled.
> 
> I posted the same story above Gibor and it makes sense for the rebels to use chemicals and then blame Assad.


You are amazingly easily programmed. You probably never even heard the term 'deep state' until a month or two ago, but you are now dutifully spouting the talking points.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

Paranoid, rabid, or both?

When I read the comments of our favorite new pet and their conspiracy buddies on these pages, I can't help but think of this clip:


----------



## bass player

Hilarious that those who lapped up every lie about Russia and Trump's people are the ones accusing other people of believing in conspiracy theories.

No one is as gullible or as hypocritical as a progressive. They believe everything they are told without question and then defend those who lie to them.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> Google is not the 'deep state'. I mean, come on. They may be compelled to do things by NSA/FBI/CIA/etc., but I don't think it is too enthusiastically.


I'm not up on my deep state info. But google did get caught actively modifying search parameters for what was clearly designed to boost up Hilary Clinton and to de-ligitimize Trump.


----------



## new dog

Bass we have LIBOR rigging, PM rigging, plunge protection team and such. We have this call to silence alternative news or media which is against free speech. We have countless examples of the mainstream media cutting feeds when things go the wrong way or just not reporting things so many people won't see what is going on. Tons of unexplained stuff going on and yet despite the evidence this is how they think. Of course not everything out there is true and there is plenty of fake news to go around.


----------



## new dog

I not sure we know what the deep state really is but there are rich people, banks and companies that can buy support of politicians and so on shaping policy.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

bass player said:


> Hilarious that those who lapped up every lie about Russia and Trump's people are the ones accusing other people of believing in conspiracy theories.
> 
> No one is as gullible or as hypocritical as a progressive. They believe everything they are told without question and then defend those who lie to them.


Lol, and the silence is all too telling. 

Similar to the silence and avoidance in the UK terrorist thread.

Its hard to admit one might be wrong. Its even harder to admit ones whole ideology they've come to know and love over decades is crumbling.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

5Lgreenback said:


> I'm not up on my deep state info. But google did get caught actively modifying search parameters for what was clearly designed to boost up Hilary Clinton and to de-ligitimize Trump.


Then again if you'd used Google your ability to spell wouldn't have been *delegitimize*d.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Then again if you'd used Google your ability to spell wouldn't have been *delegitimize*d.


?? Thanks for the spell check?


----------



## bass player

What I see is deep fear from the left...the rise of alternative news sources has exposed the msm as fake news and the Democrats as liars, cheats, and morally corrupt. Every day their ridiculous claims become more far fetched and they fall further down the rabbit hole. Their attempt to smear Trump has been a massive failure and Obama's actions are now coming to light and have shown him to be just like any other third world dictator.


----------



## olivaw

5Lgreenback said:


> Lol, and the silence is all too telling.


Have you ever been in a business situation where somebody comes out of left field with a weird statement and the room falls into an awkward silence? 

:untroubled:


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

ideology, deep state, deep fear, fake news, rabbit holes, past presidents, third world dictators...

Do you clowns have any idea how ridiculous you sound? You are broken records, trolls who repeat the same garbage over and over, waiting for some response. There is no 'left' or 'right' or any other group on this forum that you are scoring points against. 
We only reply to humour you, and give your sense of self-worth a little boost. 
Don't worry, some day you'll grow up and have more important things to do in life!

View attachment 14617


----------



## bass player

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ideology, deep state, deep fear, fake news, rabbit holes, past presidents, third world dictators...


How quickly you forget these lies: racist, white supremacist, impeachment, sexual predator, bought by the Russians, tax cheat, illegitimate president, blah, blah, blah.


----------



## andrewf

5Lgreenback said:


> I'm not up on my deep state info. But google did get caught actively modifying search parameters for what was clearly designed to boost up Hilary Clinton and to de-ligitimize Trump.


This was (I know, cliche) "fake news". You could engineer google autocompletes or search results that showed opposite 'bias'. There was no compelling evidence of systemic bias. You can't select the examples that conform to your thesis and discard the contradictory examples and declare your thesis proven. It's like a drug trial where you exclude all the patients that had negative outcomes.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> Bass we have LIBOR rigging, PM rigging, plunge protection team and such. We have this call to silence alternative news or media which is against free speech. We have countless examples of the mainstream media cutting feeds when things go the wrong way or just not reporting things so many people won't see what is going on. Tons of unexplained stuff going on and yet despite the evidence this is how they think. Of course not everything out there is true and there is plenty of fake news to go around.


Distorting video clips was FOX News MO for over a decade. The Daily Show made tonnes of hay of FOX showing footage unrelated to the news story they were discussing, or deceptively editing video, etc. So, it is by no means only the left of centre media. The right of centre media mastered it. 

It is a mistake to conclude that even where these outlets fall short on journalistic ideals to lump them in with propagandists who are intentionally spreading misinformation. The media makes at least a semblence of an effort to get it right and maintain the appearance of journalistic integrity. The propagandists (fake news) do not. Lumping them all together is contending that the truth doesn't matter.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> I not sure we know what the deep state really is but there are rich people, banks and companies that can buy support of politicians and so on shaping policy.


*bangs head against wall*

Stop using words you don't understand. Sure, they sound cool, but making random noises in public is for actual dogs, not humans that call themselves dog.


----------



## new dog

How about the influence of Jamie Dimon on US law makers.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ples-money-will-jamie-dimon-get-his-way-again

This is how it is done and this is not a conspiracy theory.

Again LIBOR scandal also sounds ridiculous but what do you know it is true.


----------



## bass player

Google's bias is well known and has been proven As well as that of Twitter. You don't see it because it fits your narrative. Or, you're gullible. Or, you're lying.

The left are like trained monkeys that rise up and deny every time someone on the left lies or gets caught committing a crime or deleting a hard drive. Their Pavlovian response makes them jump up and scream "Fake news" "alt-right lies" or some other talking point.

Every. Single. Time.


----------



## andrewf

I am more sympathetic to criticisms of Twitter and their shadow banning practices.

Google's supposed bias has been alleged but not convincingly proven. I'm guess you came to this conclusion through a carefully crafted story designed to convince you of this fact, but you didn't seek any confirmation-bias challenging evidence.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

olivaw said:


> Have you ever been in a business situation where somebody comes out of left field with a weird statement and the room falls into an awkward silence?
> 
> :untroubled:


Well, to be honest I can see how it may look that way.


----------



## sags

There are so many conspiracies flying around that we now have the phenomena of "competing conspiracy theories".

There are now websites that give you the news...........before it even happens.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> This was (I know, cliche) "fake news". You could engineer google autocompletes or search results that showed opposite 'bias'. There was no compelling evidence of systemic bias. You can't select the examples that conform to your thesis and discard the contradictory examples and declare your thesis proven. It's like a drug trial where you exclude all the patients that had negative outcomes.


I may be wrong on this, as I don't claim to know the insides and out of search engines. But there has been some compelling evidence to the contrary, especially to what Bing and Yahoo search engines showed as popular searches in comparison. Julian Assange also warned of the dangerous connections between google, Hilary Clinton and the White house, and the Pentagon.

"The chairman of Google, who was the CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt, has started, about a year ago, a company to run Hillary Clinton’s digital campaign. Google has been to the White House, on average over the last four years, once per week—more than any other single company. It spends more money lobbying Washington, D.C., than any other single company. Hillary Clinton’s former staffer, Jared Cohen, was hired by Google in 2009 to head up Google’s internal think tank. There’s a lot of other interconnections between Google and the state. Eric Schmidt is now also, at the same time as being chairman of what is now Google’s parent company, Alphabet, is chairman of the Pentagon innovation board.
So you have a connection between Google, the Clinton campaign, which will be almost certainly the next White House, and the Pentagon. And this triangle is extremely worrying, because, as time goes by, Google is understanding that it does have an ability to influence election campaigns. It’s also bought more than 10 drone companies. It’s integrating its mapping data in order to better be able to fly and navigate drones around the world, is expanding into every country in the world."


----------



## sags

If conspiracy theories are being used extensively to hide what is really going on............then what is really going on ?

Conspiracy theories are useful for those who want to hide the truth. 

So much misinformation is put out that people don't believe the truth when they hear it.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

sags said:


> If conspiracy theories are being used extensively to hide what is really going on............then what is really going on ?
> 
> Conspiracy theories are useful for those who want to hide the truth.
> 
> So much misinformation is put out that people don't believe the truth when they hear it.


I'm not sure if your referring to what I wrote above? As those connections are not conspircacies but information released via wikileaks.


----------



## new dog

There is a ton of stuff out there that was considered conspiracy theory that is now known to be true. There is a ton of stuff out there that you just brush off as BS. Or you just find it entertaining to listen to. However the alt-media is free to report on what they want and can dig into stories where the mainstream are not allowed to because of management at the top.

The mainstream media has the budget and does have to follow some standards for sure or they would probably be out of business. They also are boxed in and can't report stories freely, as we have seen many times when negative stuff was being said about Hillary for example and then the feed is cut. Or if they can get away with it they will just not show you part of the real story or elect not to cover it. This is what is driving people away from the mainstream media as they feel they are not being shown the whole story and they understand that the media has to follow their bosses and editors.

Overall it tells us that free speech is very important and it would be much better if the mainstream media wasn't shackled. If the mainstream media could freely report then much of the alt-media would disappear.


----------



## andrewf

5Lgreenback said:


> I may be wrong on this, as I don't claim to know the insides and out of search engines. But there has been some compelling evidence to the contrary, especially to what Bing and Yahoo search engines showed as popular searches in comparison. Julian Assange also warned of the dangerous connections between google, Hilary Clinton and the White house, and the Pentagon.
> 
> "The chairman of Google, who was the CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt, has started, about a year ago, a company to run Hillary Clinton’s digital campaign. Google has been to the White House, on average over the last four years, once per week—more than any other single company. It spends more money lobbying Washington, D.C., than any other single company. Hillary Clinton’s former staffer, Jared Cohen, was hired by Google in 2009 to head up Google’s internal think tank. There’s a lot of other interconnections between Google and the state. Eric Schmidt is now also, at the same time as being chairman of what is now Google’s parent company, Alphabet, is chairman of the Pentagon innovation board.
> So you have a connection between Google, the Clinton campaign, which will be almost certainly the next White House, and the Pentagon. And this triangle is extremely worrying, because, as time goes by, Google is understanding that it does have an ability to influence election campaigns. It’s also bought more than 10 drone companies. It’s integrating its mapping data in order to better be able to fly and navigate drones around the world, is expanding into every country in the world."


Is there any there there? Are you sure equivalently weak links can't be made between Google and the GOP?

The state is compelling all internet companies to enable mass state surveillance (aka spying) on both Americans and non-Americans, while also legally preventing them from discussing it in public. If you're going to be worried about something, be worried about that.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> There is a ton of stuff out there that was considered conspiracy theory that is now known to be true. There is a ton of stuff out there that you just brush off as BS. Or you just find it entertaining to listen to. However the alt-media is free to report on what they want and can dig into stories where the mainstream are not allowed to because of management at the top.
> 
> The mainstream media has the budget and does have to follow some standards for sure or they would probably be out of business. They also are boxed in and can't report stories freely, as we have seen many times when negative stuff was being said about Hillary for example and then the feed is cut. Or if they can get away with it they will just not show you part of the real story or elect not to cover it. This is what is driving people away from the mainstream media as they feel they are not being shown the whole story and they understand that the media has to follow their bosses and editors.
> 
> Overall it tells us that free speech is very important and it would be much better if the mainstream media wasn't shackled. If the mainstream media could freely report then much of the alt-media would disappear.


The thing is, you are taking alt news sites as gospel when they report these stories alongside stories about Bigfoot, Ancient Aliens, chemtrails, black helicopters, alien lizard people, etc. Sure, CNN may occasionally torque a story, but they kernel of it is generally factually accurate. A lot of the alt news/"fake" news just wholesale invent things that are trivially demonstrated to be false. A lot of this is Russian propaganda designed to literally confuse people and make them conclude that the truth is unknowable.


----------



## Nelley

andrewf said:


> The thing is, you are taking alt news sites as gospel when they report these stories alongside stories about Bigfoot, Ancient Aliens, chemtrails, black helicopters, alien lizard people, etc. Sure, CNN may occasionally torque a story, but they kernel of it is generally factually accurate. A lot of the alt news/"fake" news just wholesale invent things that are trivially demonstrated to be false. A lot of this is Russian propaganda designed to literally confuse people and make them conclude that the truth is unknowable.


Surprisingly ignorant comment coming from you-you aren't usually that stupid-no offense intended. Everything you just wrote is a very lame CNN description of "alt right".


----------



## new dog

Actually quite the opposite andrewf, I don't trust anyone. Sure I look at stuff everywhere including CNN but I don't buy everything they are selling. To me the constant wars in the middle east, sudden refugee crisis and so on seems a bit much and overdone. I don't believe the whole Syria story and I know they want control of that country. After Syria they will then set their sights on Iran and then another country, there is no end to it because war is money. There is also side items like opium production in Afghanistan, a gas pipeline through Syria, taking custody of a countries gold, stopping countries of using other means then the US dollar and so on.


----------



## WGZ

Just an "aside", but even the trivial "fake news" you see on social media (Facebook especially)...it is very scary how many people believe everything they see online. 5 different people can have 5 different sources and all come to the table with a different version of facts/events without even bothering to look at multiple sources and identify discrepancies.

eg. the Dodge Demon. Oh it will have 750, no 850, no 1050hp. Just wait for the god damn press release from FCA themselves, instead of accepting click-bait as official news. Thing is hyped up and marketed to the very ishhhay.


----------



## new dog

That is not really an aside but a valid point on fake news I would think. I didn't think of the social media or Facebook because I don't have it but I can definitely see your point.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> Is there any there there? Are you sure equivalently weak links can't be made between Google and the GOP?
> 
> The state is compelling all internet companies to enable mass state surveillance (aka spying) on both Americans and non-Americans, while also legally preventing them from discussing it in public. If you're going to be worried about something, be worried about that.


Of course I can't state 100% that the other searches may have come up with different results, maybe there was some that went the other way. Given the connections between Google, (and many other big persuasive companies) with the political establishment, the recent rise of an "anti-establishment" candidate (now president) Trump, I would be shocked to hear if there wasn't any collusion between them.

What you state is also very worrisome and just another example of such privacy breaches (often illegal) that seem to be getting so common now that people are just accepting it as a new reality. Allowing big government to have such powers over its people is absolutely frightening and of course the loss of privacy is just going to be the start of whats to come I fear.


----------



## bass player

5Lgreenback said:


> Of course I can't state 100% that the other searches may have come up with different results, maybe there was some that went the other way. Given the connections between Google, (and many other big persuasive companies) with the political establishment, the recent rise of an "anti-establishment" candidate (now president) Trump, I would be shocked to hear if there wasn't any collusion between them.


Exactly. If a Republican talks to a Russian in passing the automatic conclusion is that Russia is influencing the US electoral system. But, when there are known financial connections between Google and the Democrats or Zuckerberg and Hillary, then suddenly no one in the left is able to make any connection at all.

Just imagine if the FBI was investigating a hack of the Republican computers and the Republicans refused to allow them access to those computers and instead provided a report from a private company with financial ties to the Republicans. The left would be screaming "conspiracy" from the roof tops, but when the Democrats did that very thing, the silence was deafening. To this day, the FBI still hasn't looked at the hacked Democrat computers.


----------



## new dog

MOAB or mother of all bombs sends stocks to a 2 month low. I suppose it is a better explanation then some star moving backwards in the cosmos or something.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-stocks-2-month-lows-amid-safe-haven-scramble


----------



## new dog

Also wiki-leaks released e-mail to Hillary which says al-quada is on our side in Syria.

https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/852266094379380738

I always figured this to be true but I am sure many forum buddies will still think it is not.


----------



## sags

Maybe.........the enemy of my enemy is my friend.


----------



## new dog

Al-Quada, ISIS and whatever junk that is in Syria are not good friends to have. Rand Paul figures it is better to have Assad who is keeping 2 million Christians alive then having these whack jobs in charge.


----------



## andrewf

sags said:


> Maybe.........the enemy of my enemy is my friend.


That is Trump's supposed foreign policy with Russia.


----------



## new dog

Has the left descended to Fascism?

1. State and corporate elites govern society and the economy as one unified class.

2. The status quo or establishment seeks to impose a conformity of values and opinion that support the dominant narratives status quo via the mass (corporate media) and state controlled educational system.

3. Dissent from any quarter is suppressed via mass media ridicule and the silencing of whistleblowers.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-18/lefts-descent-fascism


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

new dog said:


> Has the left descended to Fascism?...


I don't think so, its just the impression one gets from reading false news sites. 
Be careful with those popup ads for Survivalist Magazine.


----------



## new dog

The points are valid we have been seeing this. I also wasn't aware of those adds that you have been reading but I will be careful of them.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

Its quite clear they are fast approaching fascism. Those who follow only the main stream left completely lack self-awareness. The ANTIFA radicals? This is, ironically, the closest thing to fascism the west has seen in modern times. 

Resisting those who disagree with you by trying to silence their voices and if that fails then label them as "nazis" and "fascists" and resort to outright violence. 

Enjoy the decline.:star:


----------



## bass player

Well stated greenback. The left would rather see civilization collapse than accept that their ideology is flawed and unworkable. They hate everything that made modern society great.


----------



## andrewf

5Lgreenback said:


> Its quite clear they are fast approaching fascism. Those who follow only the main stream left completely lack self-awareness. The ANTIFA radicals? This is, ironically, the closest thing to fascism the west has seen in modern times.
> 
> Resisting those who disagree with you by trying to silence their voices and if that fails then label them as "nazis" and "fascists" and resort to outright violence.
> 
> Enjoy the decline.:star:


These antifa bozos are 'the left' in the same sense white nationalists are 'the right'.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> These antifa bozos are 'the left' in the same sense white nationalists are 'the right'.


I don't see any white nationalists attacking free speech or holding violent protests against differing opinions. I don't see anyone on the right defending the actions of white nationalists, and I don't see the media covering up the crimes and illegal actions of white nationalists. I don't see any white nationalists who chant "kill the cops", and I don't see any white nationalists who loot stores or light cars on fire.

But, other than that, they are exactly the same...


----------



## andrewf

^You totally missed the point, I see.


----------



## bass player

andrewf said:


> ^You totally missed the point, I see.


Actually, no. You missed the point. But, then again, I don't expect the left to "get it". It's beyond their capabilities...


----------



## new dog

5Lgreenback said:


> Its quite clear they are fast approaching fascism. Those who follow only the main stream left completely lack self-awareness. The ANTIFA radicals? This is, ironically, the closest thing to fascism the west has seen in modern times.
> 
> Resisting those who disagree with you by trying to silence their voices and if that fails then label them as "nazis" and "fascists" and resort to outright violence.
> 
> Enjoy the decline.:star:



The fear of being labelled a nazi or a racist has done a lot of damage to Europe and Sweden. These words have had more power then anyone on the left could ever have imagined.


----------



## bass player

More fake news from msm...the NYT recently wrote a story about a "Michigan doctor" doctor performing FGMs in Detroit but conveniently left out that she was a Muslim performing a procedure that Muslims find acceptable. There is no word on when a women's march will be held for the victims....maybe those victims don't matter to the left?

The Associated Press translated the Fresno killer's "Alahu Akbar" phrase shouted out for all to hear to "God is great" in their story in a deliberate attempt to hide the ideology of the murderer.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

bass player said:


> Actually, no. You missed the point. But, then again, I don't expect the left to "get it". It's beyond their capabilities...


Just remember that from where you're standing everyone is "the left". I'd probably be considered right of centre (I don't really care about labels) and you still see me as left.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> These antifa bozos are 'the left' in the same sense white nationalists are 'the right'.


Antifa has the support and sympathy of the mainstream media and our educational institutions (as does the racist BLM movement, as do extremely radical feminists, as do all visible minorities, seeing a trend here in this culture of 'victimhood' the left has created?) 

At the last attack on the free speech supporters at Berkeley by ANTIFA, look up the story of anitfa Moldylocks. CBS portrayed her as a victim of "Nazis and white supremacists" when in fact cameras on the ground and her own words proved otherwise. CBS would have known this, but choose to push their agenda anyways and allowed her to lie on camera unquestioned.

What support do white nationalists have from the mainstream? How many actual white supremacists exist out there in America, maybe 5000? Are they even a real problem? Or is it just that the media labels anyone who questions them a white nationalist now?


----------



## 5Lgreenback

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Just remember that from where you're standing everyone is "the left". I'd probably be considered right of centre (I don't really care about labels) and you still see me as left.


I think the problem is that our culture has been drifting farther and farther to the left for the last 40 years and its been virtually unchallenged, until very recently. Thankfully some people are starting to wake up, and others continue drifting toward the cliff. 

Have you taken the political compass questionnaire? You might be surprised where you'd end up.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

Good Job CBC- Fresno Killer Kori Ali Muhammad was shouting Allahu Akbar as he was killing 3 white people as many witnesses report. CBC shows a quick 15 second segment on this killer, completely censors that he was yelling Allahu Akbar and states that the attacks were strictly racially motivated. They left the story at that, nothing more to ad, just push it to the side and hope we forget it.

Okay fine, so lets just leave this mans Islamic faith out of it. 

If this was a white man, who went out and killed three black people, it would be front page headlines and it would be all the media would be talking about for 2 days. Then the media would focus on what we can do about racism and tell white people that they are all racist even if they don't know it. But in this case they just try to sweep the story under the rug.

I don't know how any intellectually honest person can not see that the media is pushing this dangerous and racist ideology and double standard constantly.


----------



## Nelley

5Lgreenback said:


> I think the problem is that our culture has been drifting farther and farther to the left for the last 40 years and its been virtually unchallenged, until very recently. Thankfully some people are starting to wake up, and others continue drifting toward the cliff.
> 
> Have you taken the political compass questionnaire? You might be surprised where you'd end up.


Interesting site-I took the quiz-I ended up very near the centre of the chart (slightly right wing libertarian)-so that site would classify CMF as a left wing authoritarian website-interesting for a financial blog.


----------



## bass player

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Just remember that from where you're standing everyone is "the left". I'd probably be considered right of centre (I don't really care about labels) and you still see me as left.


According to the political compass questionnaire, I am a slightly left of centre libertarian.


----------



## none

Speaking of fake news:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/19/media/bill-oreilly-out-fox-news/index.html

How sweet is that?


----------



## Nelley

none said:


> Speaking of fake news:
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/19/media/bill-oreilly-out-fox-news/index.html
> 
> How sweet is that?


O'reilly had very high ratings-he will just be replaced by somebody else hated by left wing authoritarian types like yourself-what would have been far better for the shut up free speech crowd would have been an unpopular Oreilly being fired because of low ratings.


----------



## none

Umm... he sexually harassed women in the workplace. I'm just happy to see that illegal actions have consequences.


----------



## andrewf

5Lgreenback said:


> Antifa has the support and sympathy of the mainstream media and our educational institutions (as does the racist BLM movement, as do extremely radical feminists, as do all visible minorities, seeing a trend here in this culture of 'victimhood' the left has created?)
> 
> At the last attack on the free speech supporters at Berkeley by ANTIFA, look up the story of anitfa Moldylocks. CBS portrayed her as a victim of "Nazis and white supremacists" when in fact cameras on the ground and her own words proved otherwise. CBS would have known this, but choose to push their agenda anyways and allowed her to lie on camera unquestioned.
> 
> What support do white nationalists have from the mainstream? How many actual white supremacists exist out there in America, maybe 5000? Are they even a real problem? Or is it just that the media labels anyone who questions them a white nationalist now?


How many people in the media/academia have even heard of antifa? It's a fringe group of anarchists.


----------



## new dog

bass player said:


> According to the political compass questionnaire, I am a slightly left of centre libertarian.


I was just under the middle line and 3 squares to the left.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> How many people in the media/academia have even heard of antifa? It's a fringe group of anarchists.




Are you living in denial, or just an alternate reality? For starters, I gave you an example in the very post you quoted.


----------



## andrewf

5Lgreenback said:


> Are you living in denial, or just an alternate reality? For starters, I gave you an example in the very post you quoted.


An example is an anecdote. How useful is anecdotal evidence?


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> An example is an anecdote. How useful is anecdotal evidence?


I guess you didn't look into the story much then. 

The evidence is everywhere, and I don't believe for a second you can't see it. The downplaying of the riots and violence at Milo's speeches, Ben Shapiro's speeches, Jordan Peterson's speeches and the media spin on it that if violence does break out, its justified because of any or all of the usual buzzword lies. Racist, bigot, homophobic, sexist, islamophob etc etc. And of course the oh so ironic fascist.


----------



## bass player

Associated Press tries to apologize for blatantly lying...but not until after they got caught, of course. Even their "apology" refuses to state that the murdered actually shouted "Alahu Akbar" 

"We deleted a tweet about a Fresno slaying suspect shouting "God is great." It failed to note he said it in Arabic. A new tweet is upcoming."


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> Associated Press tries to apologize for blatantly lying...but not until after they got caught, of course. Even their "apology" refuses to state that the murdered actually shouted "Alahu Akbar"
> 
> "We deleted a tweet about a Fresno slaying suspect shouting "God is great." It failed to note he said it in Arabic. A new tweet is upcoming."


I think if you mention he said it in Arabic that is technically a Hate Crime-if it isn't, it will be soon enough if the school system keeps churning out more zombies.


----------



## andrewf

5Lgreenback said:


> I guess you didn't look into the story much then.
> 
> The evidence is everywhere, and I don't believe for a second you can't see it. The downplaying of the riots and violence at Milo's speeches, Ben Shapiro's speeches, Jordan Peterson's speeches and the media spin on it that if violence does break out, its justified because of any or all of the usual buzzword lies. Racist, bigot, homophobic, sexist, islamophob etc etc. And of course the oh so ironic fascist.


But those protestors were not antifa, they were garden variety SJWs.


----------



## wraphter

5Lgreenback said:


> Good Job CBC- Fresno Killer Kori Ali Muhammad was shouting Allahu Akbar as he was killing 3 white people as many witnesses report. CBC shows a quick 15 second segment on this killer, completely censors that he was yelling Allahu Akbar and states that the attacks were strictly racially motivated. They left the story at that, nothing more to ad, just push it to the side and hope we forget it.
> 
> Okay fine, so lets just leave this mans Islamic faith out of it.
> 
> If this was a white man, who went out and killed three black people, it would be front page headlines and it would be all the media would be talking about for 2 days. Then the media would focus on what we can do about racism and tell white people that they are all racist even if they don't know it. But in this case they just try to sweep the story under the rug.
> 
> I don't know how any intellectually honest person can not see that the media is pushing this dangerous and racist ideology and double standard constantly.


Shouting Allahu Akbar doesn't automatically mean an Islamist terrorist attack. All the evidence must be carefully weighed. 

The police in Fresno are calling it a racially motivated hate crime. He also has a psychiatric history.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/killed-hurt-shooting-downtown-fresno-california-46870435



> A man wanted in the slaying of a security guard set out to kill as many white people as he could on Tuesday, gunning down three men on the streets of downtown Fresno before he was captured and admitted to the shootings, authorities said.
> 
> Kori Ali Muhammad, 39, was arrested shortly after the morning rampage that left three white men dead, police said. Muhammad, who is black, fired 16 rounds in less than two minutes at four places within a block, shooting men who appeared to be going about their day, authorities say.
> 
> *During his arrest, Muhammad shouted "Allahu Akbar," but Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said the shootings had "nothing to do with terrorism in spite of the statement he made."*
> 
> *"This is solely based on race," Dyer told reporters.*
> 
> ..............
> 
> He claimed insanity, and his attorney requested a psychiatric examination for his client, saying Muhammad "appeared eccentric with some bizarre beliefs." A psychiatrist who examined Muhammad believed he had psychosis, Muhammad's attorney said in the court filing.
> 
> He also "suffered auditory hallucinations and had at least two prior mental health hospitalizations," according to court documents. His attorney said that Muhammad had "paranoia" and thought the justice system and his defense attorney were conspiring against him, court papers said.


Those who purport to defend white Western culture would do well to adhere to the rules of Western law and jurisprudence-- collection of evidence,diminished responsibility for mental illness etc. Just because it bears a slight resemblance to a duck doesn't mean it is a duck.

Making up hypothetical events,such as a white man killing blacks is not convincing and is difficult to follow. Reality is difficult enough to understand.


----------



## bass player

Here's how it works:

White cops shoots black man...instant accusations of racism.

Man yelling "Alahu Akbar" kills innocent people: "Don't jump to conclusions you racist haters."

One of Trump's people says hi the Russian ambassador at a function: "The Russians hacked the election!!"

Hillary hides $2.35 million in campaign donations from Russia's Uranium One: "Trump is a racist".

Is that about right?


----------



## 5Lgreenback

bass player said:


> Here's how it works:
> 
> White cops shoots black man...instant accusations of racism.
> 
> Man yelling "Alahu Akbar" kills innocent people: "Don't jump to conclusions you racist haters."
> 
> One of Trump's people says hi the Russian ambassador at a function: "The Russians hacked the election!!"
> 
> Hillary hides $2.35 million in campaign donations from Russia's Uranium One: "Trump is a racist".
> 
> Is that about right?


Thats just scratching the surface.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

andrewf said:


> But those protestors were not antifa, they were garden variety SJWs.



The ones dressed in black covering up their faces and starting violence, vandalism and burning were Antifa. Regardless of what they call themselves you seem to be just trying to avoid the point that the MSM takes the sides of those on the far left political spectrum. Including the garden variety SJW's.


----------



## wraphter

bass player said:


> Here's how it works:
> 
> White cops shoots black man...instant accusations of racism.


Most of these killings are justified imo. 



> Man yelling "Alahu Akbar" kills innocent people: "Don't jump to conclusions you racist haters."


Man has psychiatric history and says he wants to kill white people for racial reasons




> One of Trump's people says hi the Russian ambassador at a function: "The Russians hacked the election!!"


This investigation has been going on for a long time with nothing to show. General Flynn took money from the Russians.



> Hillary hides $2.35 million in campaign donations from Russia's Uranium One: "Trump is a racist".


Bill Clinton was given some huge amount of money for a speech in Moscow when the Uranium One deal was being approved by the US govt and Hillary was Secretary of State. Hillary was corrupt. t looks like the Clintons were selling influence.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/kori-...or-attack-photos-facebook-suspect-california/



> The accused shooter – who had posted about Black Lives Matter and allegedly told police he “hates white people” – was named as Kori Muhammad (Kori Ali Muhammad), already a wanted suspect in the earlier slaying of a Motel 6 security guard. The guard makes the total of deceased victims four.
> 
> However, police said that the murders were a hate crime motivated by race (the April 18 victims were white, and Muhammad is black), not terrorism.
> 
> ............
> 
> Muhammad, 39, posted the phrase “Allahu Akbar” on Twitter too, writing all in caps that he thanked “ALLAH FOR THE CATACLYSMIC NATURAL DISASTERS STRIKING America.” It’s not clear which natural disasters he meant, but his rambling social media posts show a fixation with the weather.
> 
> ..............
> 
> Altogether, the gunman wounded four people in the downtown shootings, killing three of them; all of those victims were white men, reported the Fresno Bee, which added that police said Muhammad had also expressed “dislike of whites” on Facebook. One of those slain was a utility worker sitting in his truck.
> 
> .............
> 
> Muhammad has a criminal history in federal court with indications of previous mental health issues, and he filled his Facebook page with ramblings about “Asiatic black national demand” and “the lost found Asiatic black nation.”
> 
> Last July, he posted about the Baton Rouge police shootings, writing, “They shot Our Brother from a 100 yards through a structure. Guess you didn’t have a robot. #ENJOYPARADISEGOD.” He also posted a photo of a man smiling with the caption, “My face when grafted white devils die.” (The post also includes a racial slur to some blacks.)
> 
> ............
> 
> *He also shared a post that labeled the killer of five Dallas police officers a “hero,” writing, “HE LOVED US ENOUGH TO KILL AND DIE FOR US. WE HONOR HIM #LETBLACKPEOPLEGO.” The Dallas police shooter, Micah Xavier Johnson was motivated by Black Lives Matter and police shootings.*


----------



## 5Lgreenback

wraphter said:


> Shouting Allahu Akbar doesn't automatically mean an Islamist terrorist attack. All the evidence must be carefully weighed.
> 
> The police in Fresno are calling it a racially motivated hate crime. He also has a psychiatric history.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/killed-hurt-shooting-downtown-fresno-california-46870435
> 
> 
> 
> Those who purport to defend white Western culture would do well to adhere to the rules of Western law and jurisprudence-- collection of evidence,diminished responsibility for mental illness etc. Just because it bears a slight resemblance to a duck doesn't mean it is a duck.
> 
> Making up hypothetical events,such as a white man killing blacks is not convincing and is difficult to follow. Reality is difficult enough to understand.


Thats why I stated fine, lets leave his faith out of it. Although in all likely hood I'm sure his faith in Islam, his extreme racism and his low IQ were the main driving factors. 

As for the "hypothetical" situation. I don't think its hard to understand the double standard the media plays when it comes to skin colour.


----------



## new dog

bass player said:


> Here's how it works:
> 
> White cops shoots black man...instant accusations of racism.
> 
> Man yelling "Alahu Akbar" kills innocent people: "Don't jump to conclusions you racist haters."
> 
> One of Trump's people says hi the Russian ambassador at a function: "The Russians hacked the election!!"
> 
> Hillary hides $2.35 million in campaign donations from Russia's Uranium One: "Trump is a racist".
> 
> Is that about right?



Number one problem is that white supremacists are around every corner, so we must be very afraid. White people are also very dangerous because they are white and it is hard to insult them.

Number 2 Russians are always at fault and even Trump thinks so after pressure from his neocon advisors who would like to risk WW3. WW3 is better then the Russians and Assad being in power in Syria.

Number 3 yelling "Alahu Akbar" while killing people doesn't mean that you are racist because you don't care who you kill. Also don't forget Islam is very peaceful and nice. White people are just downright dangerous.


----------



## bass player

An MSNBC reporter tweets a pic of a Trump property in Istanbul and says "This is my nominee for the first ISIS suicide bombing of a Trump property"

Just imagine if a reporter said the same thing about Obama...leftist heads would explode with fury. But, when the left says it the silence is deafening.


----------



## 5Lgreenback

BBC splices and totally twists two separate stories together to make it look like Antifa were the victims at the Battle for Berkeley. This is 100% intentional to try and misrepresent free speech supporters and Trump supporters. As well as many other mainstream sources being called out here. 

But at least we have these big mainstream media giants out there letting us know we need to be wary of fake news...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tssRz0TigM


----------



## new dog

This was a good one 5L and it was also pretty funny as well.

This is what I was trying to point out to Humble and her gang members before. Open up your mind and decide what is really fake news because everyone from the mainstream media and on down are guilty of it.


----------



## olivaw

Perhaps Humble's "gang members" looked at your alt sites with an open mind. They reached the reasonable conclusion that conspiracy theories and Russian propaganda should not be taken seriously. :saturn:


----------



## 5Lgreenback

Yes, my above link is a conspiracy. It would take a special kind of rationale to come up with that conclusion. 

Why don't you discredit the stories and claims? Rather than attack the source?

Rhetorical, you don't need to answer.


----------



## new dog

olivaw said:


> Perhaps Humble's "gang members" looked at your alt sites with an open mind. They reached the reasonable conclusion that conspiracy theories and Russian propaganda should not be taken seriously. :saturn:


They can't do that 5L, except to run the endless Russian did line. 

However that was a funny response by Olivaw it did make me laugh on a sunny Friday afternoon. I had to use the word sunny because we haven't been able to say that on the west coast very much lately.


----------



## olivaw

new dog said:


> They can't do that 5L, except to run the endless Russian did line.
> 
> However that was a funny response by Olivaw it did make me laugh on a sunny Friday afternoon. I had to use the word sunny because we haven't been able to say that on the west coast very much lately.


Fair enough New Dog. Not every fake news story originates with the Russian Today and Russian Defence Ministry propaganda force. 

Some are made up by Alex Jones and other entertainers who profit from outrageous utterances. . 

And some are like Lauren Southern - people who fear an independent rating system for content accuracy. She whines like a restaurant owner whines after a bad Yelp review. 

Glad to see you are getting some sunshine in BC. We're seeing more of the sun on our side of the mountains too.


----------



## bass player

A second Detroit doctor has now been charged with performing FGMs on girls as young as 6-8 years of age, and of course the msm media continues to completely ignore these horrible mutilations of young women. By not reporting these horrible crimes, does that mean they support this barbaric practice?


----------



## sags

Alex Jones is embroiled in a child custody case with his wife, who claims he is mentally unstable.

For evidence, his wife is pointing to his tirades on his Infowars website and radio show.

Alex Jones is defending himself by saying he is just "acting" on his website and radio show and none of it is real.

Jones has a problem. If he is faking his show he loses his supporters. If he isn't faking his show he could lose custody of his children.

Karma keeps names and addresses.


----------



## new dog

Their just doing their job bass, which is not to do their job.

Sags Alex has a lot better people them him who should be running his show. However it is based on him and he will need to find a way back out and let the others take control if that is possible.


----------



## bass player

sags said:


> Alex Jones is defending himself by saying he is just "acting" on his website and radio show and none of it is real.
> 
> Jones has a problem. If he is faking his show he loses his supporters. If he isn't faking his show he could lose custody of his children.


Your limited imagination and/or obvious bias left out option 3: He "acts" outraged to sell the message, but what he reports is still accurate.


----------



## Nelley

sags said:


> Alex Jones is embroiled in a child custody case with his wife, who claims he is mentally unstable.
> 
> For evidence, his wife is pointing to his tirades on his Infowars website and radio show.
> 
> Alex Jones is defending himself by saying he is just "acting" on his website and radio show and none of it is real.
> 
> Jones has a problem. If he is faking his show he loses his supporters. If he isn't faking his show he could lose custody of his children.
> 
> Karma keeps names and addresses.


Alex Jones hasn't lost any supporters-and none of them think he is "faking" anything. Jones is definitely a volatile personality-he is as famous for his temper as Hillary is for her crookedness.


----------



## bass player

Also in fake news, the msm is dutifully ignoring the left wing violence that seems to now happen after every single event where they don't get their way. Today's trigger was the election in France....as expected, heads are exploding due to Le Pen's good showing.


----------



## Nelley

bass player said:


> Also in fake news, the msm is dutifully ignoring the left wing violence that seems to now happen after every single event where they don't get their way. Today's trigger was the election in France....as expected, heads are exploding due to Le Pen's good showing.


Yeah-when Crooked Hillary was criticized it was always spun as Misogyny-meanwhile Marine Le Pen stands alone and gets zero support from feminazis.


----------



## new dog

Trump to impose a 20 percent tariff on Canadian softwood lumber. We all expected this one to occur because it was the easiest place to strike first. Maybe Canada should be looking at the fresh water issue going into the US from Canada.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-24/trump-announces-20-tariff-canadian-softwood-lumber-imports


----------



## new dog

Here is a great clip from Tucker Carlson Fox News on female genital mutilation and where the NY Times takes it. People on the left here are going to love the NY Times take on this and how Carlson describes it. The video is only 60 seconds long.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5411286945001/?#sp=show-clips


----------



## none

Semantics -- who really cares? If the NYT was calling foreskin removal circumcision rather than genital mutilation would that be fake news too? The irony of this thread is hilarious.

edit: there are no 'good clips' of Tucker Carlson. That guy's one massive douche bag.


----------



## none

new dog said:


> Trump to impose a 20 percent tariff on Canadian softwood lumber. We all expected this one to occur because it was the easiest place to strike first. Maybe Canada should be looking at the fresh water issue going into the US from Canada.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-24/trump-announces-20-tariff-canadian-softwood-lumber-imports


You can't - putting price on water is dangerous.


----------



## new dog

I was thinking more along the lines of water management then the pricing side.


----------



## new dog

Putin has offered to give transcripts of the meeting between Trump and Lavrov. He says no secrets were passed over to Lavrov. It does appear the MSM is climbing over itself try to attach anything Russia to Trump whether it is true or not.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/17/politics/russia-us-trump-lavrov-intel/index.html

Wasn't it the Clintons who gave North Korea the means to make the nuclear bomb or gave lots of information to the Chinese but that was fine of course.


----------



## SMK

^ Certainly Putin's generous offer isn't helpful in the least. :biggrin:

But it's beginning to look like there are multiple players now playing with fire, not just Trump.


----------



## bass player

new dog said:


> It does appear the MSM is climbing over itself try to attach anything Russia to Trump whether it is true or not.


And that's why they have to discredit any link between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks as it would undermine the Russia narrative that has been created.


----------



## andrewf

new dog said:


> Putin has offered to give transcripts of the meeting between Trump and Lavrov. He says no secrets were passed over to Lavrov. It does appear the MSM is climbing over itself try to attach anything Russia to Trump whether it is true or not.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/17/politics/russia-us-trump-lavrov-intel/index.html
> 
> Wasn't it the Clintons who gave North Korea the means to make the nuclear bomb or gave lots of information to the Chinese but that was fine of course.


Why did Trump admit to sharing the secrets, then?


----------



## new dog

Nigel Farage is claiming fake news over FBI looking into his Russia connections. We all know the Russia thing is an attempt to upset Trump's presidency and they will keep driving it. I am sure any of the past presidents of the US could be easily put through this if the establishment and the media wished to make it so.

http://www.salon.com/2017/06/01/nig...t-fbi-is-looking-into-his-russia-connections/


----------



## bass player

Fake news CNN staging a protest 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...r-attacks-stages-anti-isis-muslim-protesters/


----------



## new dog

I suppose bass if CNN does it then it is fine. If Infowars did it everyone would be all over it.

I think CNN should do a lot of its news on a stage to save money since people believe the mainstream media is almost always real news.


----------



## Nelley

new dog said:


> I suppose bass if CNN does it then it is fine. If Infowars did it everyone would be all over it.
> 
> I think CNN should do a lot of its news on a stage to save money since people believe the mainstream media is almost always real news.


I wonder what the reaction would have been if Alex Jones had held up the severed head of Obama-I am guessing it might have been just a bit harsher than what Kathy Griffin got.


----------



## bass player

A few years ago a rode clown was fired for wearing an Obama mask. Of course, no one got outraged when he previously wore a mask of Bush.

If it wasn't for double standards, the left wouldn't have any standards at all.


----------



## sags

It is all fake news. Even the fake news is fake news.


----------



## MrMatt

none said:


> You can't - putting price on water is dangerous.


Not only that, but if we mess with the agreements we have, they might open up the ones on the Great Lakes. They could win a lot of votes if they sent that water down to the South.

The lumber issue is tough, which is why it hasn't been resolved.

The thing is, Canada is just not good at lobbying the US government.


----------



## olivaw

Breitbart reported that 5,000 pro Trump supporters descended on parliament hill. Hill security staff think they may have seen a few hundred protestors. Ottawa police estimated the number at less than 100.

Breitbart is good at fake news. It fabricated a false narrative about a large protest that didn't happen. And it was shared 33,000 times by eager Trump supporters across America.


----------



## new dog

I have never heard of any Trump supporters protesting in Canada. I am surprised that 100 or 200 hundred did show up.


----------



## bass player

olivaw said:


> Breitbart is good at fake news. It fabricated a false narrative about a large protest that didn't happen. And it was shared 33,000 times by eager Trump supporters across America.


Your sources can't be trusted.

CBC and CNN have been exaggerating protest sizes of leftist crowds for years. I remember an Idle Some More protest where there were more people waiting for a light to change. CBC used closeups to hide how small the crowd was and reported a dozen or so people as a "large" crowd. And, just the other day, CNN actually staged a protest....it looked like a movie set with someone directing people where to stand and handing them signs.


----------



## kcowan

MrMatt said:


> Not only that, but if we mess with the agreements we have, they might open up the ones on the Great Lakes. They could win a lot of votes if they sent that water down to the South


You mean like the Chicago water steal?


----------



## olivaw

bass player said:


> Your sources can't be trusted.
> 
> CBC and CNN have been ......


The source is the Ottawa police. 

https://ipolitics.ca/2017/06/05/cit...tbart-report-of-massive-pro-trump-hill-rally/



> Ottawa police are debunking a right-wing American news outlet’s claim that thousands of pro-Trump supporters descended on Parliament Hill Saturday.
> 
> Breitbart News reported Saturday that up to 5,000 people protested in favour of U.S. President Donald Trump’s conservative agenda Saturday. Protesters, the controversial outlet said, were also angry about Prime Minster Justin Trudeau liberal policies.
> 
> As of Monday morning, the piece has been shared more than 33,000 times on social media.
> 
> Ottawa Police Const. Marc Soucy confirmed a protest was planned for Parliament Hill. He said he couldn’t confirm the numbers but estimated the crowd was “less than 100.”


----------



## bass player

Comey has now clearly stated under oath that Trump did not ask him to stop the investigation. I'm sure the msm is working hard preparing their apology for spreading fake news!! 

Or not...


----------



## none

bass player said:


> Comey has now clearly stated under oath that Trump did not ask him to stop the investigation. I'm sure the msm is working hard preparing their apology for spreading fake news!!
> 
> Or not...


I think you were watching a different feed.


----------



## new dog

Comey and the senate are doing all they can to make an issue out of this. No other president would face this it would almost be a non-issue. The Bill Clinton talking on the plane thing is a 100 times bigger but that was completely ignored. If Trump had talked on that plane in the same circumstances as Hillary was in he would have been impeached already.


----------



## new dog

I should add this link for your pleasure as well.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-clinton-campaign-language-it-gave-me-queasy-

Nothing to hear or see here I am sure.


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## bass player

Is this a new low for fake news CNN? Look closely at the footage...at 49 seconds the reporter who is wearing beige shorts and sandals runs to "save" a flood victim. The camera conveniently cuts away (it looks edited) and then 9 seconds later in supposed "live time" the very same reporter is now wearing long black pants and rubber boots. He changed clothes faster than Superman, and also he also deemed it necessary to do so before "saving" this man's life!! The CNN timeline on the bottom right shows 10:02 before and after the magical change of clothes, but I wonder when this "rescue" was really filmed and how many takes they had to do to get it just right... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8mX6VWXvQ&t=93s


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## BoringInvestor

bass player said:


> Is this a new low for fake news CNN? Look closely at the footage...at 49 seconds the reporter who is wearing beige shorts and sandals runs to "save" a flood victim. The camera conveniently cuts away (it looks edited) and then 9 seconds later in supposed "live time" the very same reporter is now wearing long black pants and rubber boots. He changed clothes faster than Superman, and also he also deemed it necessary to do so before "saving" this man's life!! The CNN timeline on the bottom right shows 10:02 before and after the magical change of clothes, but I wonder when this "rescue" was really filmed and how many takes they had to do to get it just right...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8mX6VWXvQ&t=93s


*sigh*


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## bass player

BoringInvestor said:


> *sigh*


Was that the sound of the last remaining bit of trust in the msm media leaving your body for good...?


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## sags

A video doctored to make CNN look bad..........not a unique concept.

Probably created by one of Trump's crooked crony criminal chums.


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## bass player

sags said:


> A video doctored to make CNN look bad..........not a unique concept.
> 
> Probably created by one of Trump's crooked crony criminal chums.


Yeah, that's it...because we all know that CNN is the beacon of honesty and integrity  

Why don't you find the original from CNN and prove that it was doctored?


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## new dog

That was weird and I am not sure what to make of that. I actually hope it isn't a fake news event even for CNN in such a disaster as we have seen in Houston.


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## andrewf

bass player said:


> Is this a new low for fake news CNN? Look closely at the footage...at 49 seconds the reporter who is wearing beige shorts and sandals runs to "save" a flood victim. The camera conveniently cuts away (it looks edited) and then 9 seconds later in supposed "live time" the very same reporter is now wearing long black pants and rubber boots. He changed clothes faster than Superman, and also he also deemed it necessary to do so before "saving" this man's life!! The CNN timeline on the bottom right shows 10:02 before and after the magical change of clothes, but I wonder when this "rescue" was really filmed and how many takes they had to do to get it just right...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8mX6VWXvQ&t=93s


FOX is already way beyond that low. FOX would routinely use footage from other protests when covering tea party protests to inflate the apparent attendance. They have been caught doing this many times.


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## andrewf

bass player said:


> Is this a new low for fake news CNN? Look closely at the footage...at 49 seconds the reporter who is wearing beige shorts and sandals runs to "save" a flood victim. The camera conveniently cuts away (it looks edited) and then 9 seconds later in supposed "live time" the very same reporter is now wearing long black pants and rubber boots. He changed clothes faster than Superman, and also he also deemed it necessary to do so before "saving" this man's life!! The CNN timeline on the bottom right shows 10:02 before and after the magical change of clothes, but I wonder when this "rescue" was really filmed and how many takes they had to do to get it just right...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8mX6VWXvQ&t=93s


Are you blind? In the top-right corner, it clearly says "moments ago", which is another way of stating explicitly that it was not live. Then there are obvious, explicit cuts before the interview with the correspondent.


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## Kuznec

The news often used videos that had nothing to do with the news, why did they notice it right now?


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