# Tire tread wear warranties



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Saw this on CBC site yesterday. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...l-tire-warranty-mileage-exaggerated-1.5055006

Continental tire with 112k km expected life wore out in 29k km. 

Manufacturer says that 1/32" to 2/32" more wear on one tread indicates uneven wear. Sure, but have you ever seen a tire that after a few years use doesn't have uneven wear? It's just a cop out y Continental.

And they say he would have to ship his tires from BC to Ontario for evaluation?? 

All I learned, was to stay clear of Continental and it's sub brands if that is how they treat customers! (I have had their tires on several cars and even they all had wear that would Continental would have deemed uneven!)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

29k sounds is really short for any tires

They should report the manufacture date of the tire. Rubber ages and old tires can dry out and expire on the shelf

I think it really matters who you buy from. I believe Costco/amazon for example would honour such a claim without any issue

I have little faith in anything car related from Canadian Tire nowadays.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Agent99...my tires wear evenly, but I rotate them every 5000 kms or so.

We have no idea how this guy drove. Hard cornering can wear tires out even the best tires in one summer. Or, maybe he was just unlucky and got a bad set of tires.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Probably never checked the tire pressure

I'm pretty hard on sport tires with AWD and still get more than 30k street easily


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Prairie Guy said:


> Agent99...my tires wear evenly, but I rotate them every 5000 kms or so.


I recently traded our 2014 SUV. Tires on that were rotated at each service by the dealer. They also measured the tread depth and reported it. At last service at about 48k km, the difference in wear between treads was at least 2/32" (I am away from home so don't have actual numbers) Those also happened to be Continental tires. Always at correct pressure and mostly only used for long distance highway travel. The tires probably had another year of useful life left. So would have been good for 60k km. From past experience, that's about all we can expect, it seems.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> They should report the manufacture date of the tire. Rubber ages and old tires can dry out and expire on the shelf


This is true. But when we buy tires, how many of us would ask to first see the tire serial numbers? Most just think new tires are new tires and don't know that they deteriorate. In most cases, there is likely no problem. But we don't want to get landed with old stock if we can help it!

The date of manufacture is indicated by the last four digits of the serial number WWYY where WW is the week of manufacture and YY the year. 51st week of 2007 below:


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Saw this on CBC site yesterday.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...l-tire-warranty-mileage-exaggerated-1.5055006
> 
> ...


I suspect any tire manufacturer has the same type of policies. But what you did not mention was the fact that the tires were over 5 years old. The warranty was for 112k km or 6 years. So it may not have been tire quality that was the issue, the excessive wear could be due to the age. I believe most experts do recommend changing them out after 6 years.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I've never seen tires wear that fast or that far below their rating. Of the tires I've bought I usually get 80-95% and one time over 100% of the mileage rating. Could be he got a bad set of tires but something smells fishy here. 

So he's got a 2013 and has only put on 29k kms on the tires which are five years old .... begs the question, how long did the OEM tires last before these ones? So he switched out the OEM tires in the first or second year ... seems odd to me, did they wear out that fast too?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think it would pretty much impossible to keep the tire pressure perfectly adjusted all the time.

First you would have to be checking the pressure constantly as weather affects the tire pressure.

Second, even if you did check the pressure constantly, most tire pressure gauges are inaccurate.

Third, tires wear unevenly for a number of reasons besides tire air pressure. The roads we travel are uneven surfaces. They are filled with dips and rises, patches, and snow and ice.

This 'tread wear" answer from the tire company is nothing but an excuse to allow their marketing campaign to give a false impression to consumers.

Even with optimum care and use, it is doubtful a set of 4 tires would last anywhere near 112,000 kms unless the car was sitting off the ground with it's wheels spinning.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

cainvest said:


> So he's got a 2013 and has only put on 29k kms on the tires which are five years old .... begs the question, how long did the OEM tires last before these ones? So he switched out the OEM tires in the first or second year ... seems odd to me, did they wear out that fast too?


Good point.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

cainvest said:


> I've never seen tires wear that fast or that far below their rating. Of the tires I've bought I usually get 80-95% and one time over 100% of the mileage rating. Could be he got a bad set of tires but something smells fishy here.
> 
> So he's got a 2013 and has only put on 29k kms on the tires which are five years old .... begs the question, how long did the OEM tires last before these ones? So he switched out the OEM tires in the first or second year ... seems odd to me, did they wear out that fast too?


The article says he shopped for tires in 2013. The car looks like an older model.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> The article says he shopped for tires in 2013. The car looks like an older model.


My bad, that's what I get for skimming the article!

Quick check on wiki shows it's a 2010-2013 model so yes, it might be a bit older.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

To me this reads like a clear issue of tire pressure. Do you see any indication in the article that he ever checked his tire pressure? I don't, all I see is he had his vehicle serviced. So does that mean he relied solely on his auto garage to check and adjust tire pressure with no check by himself in between service intervals? If his normal service interval is 5,000 kilometres and he did 30k in 5 years, that means he only had 6 services performed in 5 years. Does checking tire pressure 6 times in 5 years sound OK to you?

All car makers, tire makers and insurance companies tell you to check your tires at LEAST once a MONTH. That's 60 checks in 5 years compared to his perhaps having had only 6. I'd like to ask the guy just one question. Do you check your tire pressure once a month? Anyone want to bet what his answer would be?

There is a reason why some car companies started offering tire pressure sensors in their cars (TPMS). Because there are a lot of people out there who do not do their own pressure checks on a monthly basis and as a result, do not get the longevity out of a set of tires that they expected to get. Duhhh.

If someone tells me they only drive 15km each way to work on paved road and are not 'burning rubber' etc. then I am willing to take their word for that. But if I do take their word for it and their tires are worn out after only 30,000 km in 5 years, then I have to figure that there is something they are doing or NOT doing that has resulted in the tires being worn out. The guy says he did his research and these tires got good reviews. Does that sound like unreasonably early wear was a common problem? Do we see any evidence in the article that the writer checked and found thousands of other buyers of these same tires having the same problem? I don't see any.

As for the 112K km warranty offer, any tire company can provide any warranty they wish with any conditions they wish to impose to make a claim. Anyone who thinks they have to play 'fair' according to YOU, is pretty naive. Has anyone ever had to re-shingle a house roof after 10 years even though the shingles they are replacing had a '25 year life' warranty? Roof shingle warranties are a roofing industry joke that everyone is aware of or becomes aware of if they try to claim on one. Tire 'life' warranties are simply another. 

Even more of an issue is people not understanding just what a warranty is vs. a guarantee. A warranty ONLY ever relates to 'defects in workmanship or materials'. So all that is warranted for 112k or 6 years (in this case) is that during that time or distance, no defects will show up. Who decides if there was a defect? Umm, the manufacturer. Tire wear does not indicate an obvious defect of any kind, it is far more likely to indicate a maintenance issue is the problem and that is NOT covered by the warranty.

the tires are not GUARANTEED to last 112K km. or 6 years. But that is what many people think they did buy, a guarantee, not a warranty. If they are guaranteed, there is no argument, but if they are simply warranted, then YOU have to basically prove them defective. All the tire company has to say is, 'we found no defect'. End of story. So yes, a 'Warranty', any warranty on any product is pretty much not worth the paper it is printed on. Anyone who expects differently is simply naive.


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

Tire and mattress warranties are two things you will never collect on. Besides, any tire that wears really slowly is giving up a lot in grip, which is why you buy tires.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Longtimeago said:


> There is a reason why some car companies started offering tire pressure sensors in their cars (TPMS). Because there are a lot of people out there who do not do their own pressure checks on a monthly basis and as a result, do not get the longevity out of a set of tires that they expected to get. Duhhh.


There is a reason but that's not it. They couldn't care less about tire longevity. You can be quite low on pressure without a TPMS warning. I've seen 7 psi first hand, straight out of the dealership. It's there because the government required it. Its only real use is detecting slow leaks.

With that said, low pressure is definitely bad for tire life. So are some types of road. And some cars (don't know about that one specifically). Oh and I have continentals on a vehicle and they wear like crazy too.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I had some nokians on my car (several years ago now). Had a flat through the side wall, so unrepairable. Kal tire looks at them and says, I'll replace them all on tread warranty. I didn't even ask.

I think it's highly dependent on the shop/store you bought them from.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> So he's got a 2013 and has only put on 29k kms on the tires which are five years old .... begs the question, how long did the OEM tires last before these ones? So he switched out the OEM tires in the first or second year ... seems odd to me, did they wear out that fast too?



I think you mis-read the article. It doesn't say he had a 2013 model. He bought Continental tires in 2013:

Sorry, I see this was already mentioned. Just can't see a way of deleting my post/


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

nobleea said:


> I had some nokians on my car (several years ago now). Had a flat through the side wall, so unrepairable. Kal tire looks at them and says, I'll replace them all on tread warranty. I didn't even ask.
> 
> I think it's highly dependent on the shop/store you bought them from.


That is a somewhat different issue. More likely a manufacturing defect. Not something that would be covered by a tread wear warranty.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> All car makers, tire makers and insurance companies tell you to check your tires at LEAST once a MONTH.


They do? 

My insurance company doesn't tell me anything about tire pressure or in fact how to look after or drive my car.

I have no argument about tire pressure being important. Continental actually say to check it every 14 days. My new Subaru says at least monthly. 

Problem I see, is that few people even have a tire pressure gauge. And if they do, do they know how to use it? Do they know that pressure should only be checked COLD? And what is COLD? -20C, 0C? 20C? Big differences in pressure at different temperatures. And no doubt COLD has different meaning for Canadians and those in warmer climes. Some guides just say to check pressure in morning (with no temperature mentioned)

I must admit that I don't check my tire pressures when it is -20C in morning! But I do regularly look at them to make sure there is no serious deflation.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

agent99 said:


> Do they know that pressure should only be checked COLD? And what is COLD? -20C, 0C? 20C? Big differences in pressure at different temperatures. And no doubt COLD has different meaning for Canadians and those in warmer climes. Some guides just say to check pressure in morning (with no temperature mentioned)
> 
> I must admit that I don't check my tire pressures when it is -20C in morning! But I do regularly look at them to make sure there is no serious deflation.


I have TPMS on my car and check the tire pressure almost every time I get in. 

Yes, you check the pressure when it's cold, and you must make seasonal adjustments. I drove to Florida for February and put my all season tires back on so as not to excessively wear out the winters. I set them to the recommended pressure and monitored them as I drove south. I bled some air off during the trip as I was travelling from -25C to +25C over 3 days. On the way back I added air a couple times because as we drove north the tire pressure dropped along with the temperature.

The general guideline is that tire pressure changes about 1 PSI per 10F, and going from -25C to =25C is about a 90 degree F change. My tires at 35 PSI when I left would have been at 44 when I got to Florida. Tires at 35 PSI in Florida would have dropped to 26 PSI when I got back home if no adjustments had been made.

Please note that a tire can be seriously underinflated and you can't tell just by looking at it.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> I think you mis-read the article. It doesn't say he had a 2013 model. He bought Continental tires in 2013:
> 
> Sorry, I see this was already mentioned. Just can't see a way of deleting my post/


And if I'm not mistaken again  it looks like a BL model, 2010–2013 so still raises the question how did the OEM tires wear out so fast?

Add: Also odd was he only noticed the serious wear on the 5th year and not when he checked in his previous pre-winter inspection.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> I must admit that I don't check my tire pressures when it is -20C in morning! But I do regularly look at them to make sure there is no serious deflation.


That's one feature I like on my past two cars, the display shows the tire pressure.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

N2


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Prairie Guy said:


> I have TPMS on my car and check the tire pressure almost every time I get in.
> 
> Yes, you check the pressure when it's cold, and you must make seasonal adjustments. I drove to Florida for February and put my all season tires back on so as not to excessively wear out the winters. I set them to the recommended pressure and monitored them as I drove south. I bled some air off during the trip as I was travelling from -25C to +25C over 3 days. On the way back I added air a couple times because as we drove north the tire pressure dropped along with the temperature.
> 
> ...


Seems there may be some misunderstanding as to what checking while 'cold' means. It means checking while the tires are cold and has nothing to do with air temperature of the environment. Let me clarify.

The air temperature of the environment will affect tire pressure and your example of driving south and having to adjust tire pressure as you went from -25C to +25C during the drive makes absolute sense. But that is one factor while the tire or vehicle manufacturers advice to 'check while cold' relates to an entirely different factor.

When you first get into your car in the morning, your tires are 'cold'. As you drive, the tires heat up due to friction. It is this factor that is being referred to with 'check when cold'. So you check the pressure before you start driving to work, not on arrival at work a half hour later. If the recommended pressure is say 35 PSI and you have them at that pressure when you start out, chances are the tires will be slightly over-inflated on arrival at work but not significantly. The same is not true if you start out under-inflated.

If you start out with an under-inflated tire and check after arrival at work, the pressure will read higher and because the tire was under-inflated, there will have been more friction meaning the difference in pressure from when you started out with 'cold' tires to when you checked on arrival the pressure in 'warmed' tires, will be more significant than the difference if the 'cold' tires were at the right pressure when you started. In other words, if you leave with tires at their correct pressure of 35PSI you might find on arrival at work a half hour later, the pressure is 36-37 PSI. A difference of just a couple of PSI. If you leave with the tires at 30PSI you might find on arrival that the pressure is at 35-36PSI. A difference of 5-6 PSI due to higher friction and a misleading number indeed.

I'm not saying you misunderstood this Prairie Guy but your comment re environmental temperature changes may be read by some as what 'check while cold' refers to and that is not the case. So best to clarify that there are 2 factors we can look at when talking about 'cold', the tire is 'cold' or the environment is 'cold', both affect pressure of the tire but are separate issues.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> That's one feature I like on my past two cars, the display shows the tire pressure.


Not many Canadian cars have TPMS. It certainly seems a good feature, but does add cost when replacing tires or if sensors fail. Just another expensive thing to go wrong . It also seems that Transport Canada don't buy into the need for them:

https://www.autoserviceworld.com/features/dont-count-mandatory-tpms/

Our 2014 Mercedes used a different system. I think it was based on a change in wheel rpms caused by a change in tire diameter when under-inflated. Probably not too precise, but better than nothing?

Only some TPMS's display pressures. Others have just a warning light. That light apparently only comes on when pressure is 25% below manufacturer's recommendation.

From Edmunds:



> Because of a variety of considerations from tire companies and automakers, a TPMS warning light isn't required to come on until a tire is 25 percent below the manufacturer's recommended tire pressure. That's also well below the pressure required for safe driving, according to the American Automobile Association. So here's the short version: Do not use the TPMS warning light as a substitute for regularly checking your tire pressure and keeping it at the recommended level. That's not its purpose


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> N2


Just a scam.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I don't think I misunderstand Longtimeago. Perhaps my post wasn't clear.

I started my trip with tires at the recommended 35 PSI when checked cold (it was -25). We drove 1000 kms on day 1 and the next morning I checked them again when "cold", except cold was now -5. The tire pressure had gone up a few pounds, so I let some air out to get them to 35 PSI. We drove 900 kms that day and the next morning it was +12, and again the cold reading had again gone up a few pounds, so I let a little more air out of the tires. The tires were always checked when they were cold.

I reversed the process on the way home.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

agent99 said:


> They do?
> 
> My insurance company doesn't tell me anything about tire pressure or in fact how to look after or drive my car.
> 
> ...


Well, they may not directly tell you how to do anything with your vehicle agent99 but I am sure you will find a line in any insurance policy that reads something like, 'follow the manufacturers recommendations or your policy will be void.' Insurance companies do put out 'advice' in brochures, online, etc. as well. Here is an example.
https://www.allstate.com/blog/tips-checking-tire-pressure/

See my response above to Prairie Guy re what 'cold' refers to. 'Check while cold' refers to the tire temperature, not the air temperature of the environment. That's why you find some saying 'check in morning' with no temperature mentioned. In the morning before you start to drive your car, is when the tires are 'cold'. It has nothing to do with the weather.

You cannot tell by looking at them if there is 'serious deflation' as you put it. Radial tires can look fine and be 'seriously' under-inflated. It is a common misconception to think that you can 'see if they need air'. But the time you can 'see' a difference, they are VERY seriously under-inflated. 

As for checking at -20C, yes, that is not very convenient but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it anyway. I check my tires while my car is parked in my garage. If you don't park in a garage at home, when else is your car indoors? For example if you park in a covered city parking garage when you go to work each day, then check the tires at the end of your work day before driving home. If you have no alternative and you have to check your tires outdoors in -20C weather, then you do what you must.

I agree many people do not even own a tire pressure gauge but that has no bearing on whether they should or not. I once knew a guy who bought a brand new car and drove it till the Oil Warning light came on and then continued to drive it the rest of the way to work. The engine seized. He tried to say the dealership never told him he had to check the oil and so it wasn't his fault and they should put in a new engine at no charge. No different than saying, 'I don't own a tire pressure gauge and no one told me I had to check tire pressure at least once a month, so it's not my fault the tires wore out. You should give me new ones, no charge.'

Somethings are our own responsibility to learn about, we cannot be spoon fed every single piece of information or have someone else take responsibility for our own stupidity. When my Father taught me to drive at age 16, he also gave me some basic lessons in how a car works etc. One of those lessons was how to do basic checks like oil level and tire pressure among other things. I have always owned a tire pressure gauge for as long as I have owned cars. 

I also do a 'walk around' to check lights. Every once in a while when my wife and I are both going out together in the car, I have her sit in the driver's seat, depress the brake pedal turn on the headlights and turn on the indicator lights while I 'walk around' and look to see if all lights are working. My insurance company doesn't tell me personally to do that either but I know that if I am in an accident and my brake lights were not working, I can be sure there will be a serious issue getting a claim paid by them. When their policy says, 'maintain as per manufacturers recommendations', they are in fact TELLING me that it is my responsibility to do what I need to do to insure that.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Seems there may be some misunderstanding as to what checking while 'cold' means. It means checking while the tires are cold and has nothing to do with air temperature of the environment.


The term COLD does no doubt need clarification. Regardless of ambient temperature, we do want tires to be inflated to car manufacturer's recommended pressure before we head out. On some days, this might mean that the pressure is quite a bit higher later in day. But probably not more than 2 or 3 psi higher which is apparently expected. There is usually a range of pressures on car sticker, so perhaps if we are at lower end of range when really cold, that would be best.

I found this link. It seems to provide one of the best explanations of the factors to consider. 

https://www.cgj.com/2013/09/20/winter-vs-summer-tire-pressure-what-is-the-proper-inflation/

Problem we have on older car is that some alloy rims have slow leaks. Taking them to tire shop hasn't helped. They just apply some sort of goop, but that lasts for a month or two, and then the tire leaks again. As a result, I am used to doing frequent tire pressure checks! 

I have spare rims and am in the process of refinishing the inside surfaces. Sand smooth, fill voids and apply hard epoxy or polyurethane coating. Haven't found a shop that does this in our area, so for me, it is a DIY job! Need new tires, but don't want to put them on bad rims.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

agent99 said:


> The term COLD does no doubt need clarification. Regardless of ambient temperature, we do want tires to be inflated to car manufacturer's recommended pressure before we head out. On some days, this might mean that the pressure is quite a bit higher later in day. But probably not more than 2 or 3 psi higher which is apparently expected. There is usually a range of pressures on car sticker, so perhaps if we are at lower end of range when really cold, that would be best.
> 
> I found this link. It seems to provide one of the best explanations of the factors to consider.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is a good link and pretty clear. The only caveat I would add is that when they refer to 'manufacturer' they are referring to the vehicle manufacturers recommendation, NOT the tire manufacturer. They could have made that a bit clearer.

The Tire manufacturer does not make ANY recommendation as to what pressure to run your tires at. They only give you a maximum recommended inflation number. It is the vehicle manufacturer's sticker on the inside of the driver's door that tells you what pressure to 'run' your tires at. 

There has always been an ongoing argument as to what is the best pressure to run tires at to get maximum mileage, ride comfort and tire life. The truth is that it is always a compromise. Run a PSI or two higher and get better mileage and maybe tire life, but a 'harder ride'. Run a PSI or two lower and get a more comfortable ride, but reduced mileage and perhaps a shorter tire life. 

The reality is that most people are lazy when it comes to paying attention to their tire pressure and the reality also is that you can't practically be checking it each time you get into your car. A race car has it's tire pressure changed before each race and even at intervals during the race is quite likely. No one commuting to work every weekday is going to do that. All we can reasonably be expected to do is at least check it once a month and hope for the best. We may get a few thousand more or a few thousand less kilometres out of a set of tires than the next guy if we do that.

But returning to the issue on this thread, trying to tell us that tires wore out after 30K kilometres through no fault of the owner, is nonsense. As Arthur Conan Doyle had his character Sherlock Holmes say, "“How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?”

In this case, what is impossible is that the tires wore out after 30K kilometres without the owner having done something wrong. However improbable he wants to say that it was his fault, it must be the truth.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Just a scam.


That's ok, you should continue to put compressed air in your mercedes.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

agent99 said:


> That is a somewhat different issue. More likely a manufacturing defect. Not something that would be covered by a tread wear warranty.


No, not a manufacturing defect. They just wrote them off under the warranty. It's not like they send the tires back in for analysis. As long as a particular shop doesnt have higher than average warranty claim numbers, it's all just paperwork. They were nokian all weathers, I think the rating was only 60 or 80K due to the softer material.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> That's ok, you should continue to put compressed air in your mercedes.


N2 is not a scam, but is a huge waste of money.

Compressed air is already almost 80% N2. The leakage rate will be slightly lower with pure N2, but there's no way the cost is worth it considering what the leakage rate is with just air. Buy one of those $20 compressors that runs off the lighter plug. Cheaper than an N2 fill up.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I used to have a compressor that ran off the auxiliary plug...be aware that some of them draw huge amounts of current that the auxiliary plug may not be rated to handle.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Not many Canadian cars have TPMS.


Really? All of the vehicles that my friends drive (newer than 10 years old) have TPMS. Now most don't show the pressure, they just have the warning light for when the tire gets really low. Some newer vehicles even have Canadian specific coding for winter to turn off the TPMS warning if all four tires are missing the sensor, it'll chime once at startup then go away.

I'll gladly pay a little extra cost to see the pressure, I really like this feature myself.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Really? All of the vehicles that my friends drive (newer than 10 years old) have TPMS.


Yes REALLY. Some models do, but most do not. TPMS is not required by Transport Canada. Some models also have Flat Tire monitoring, but that is a different animla based on the ABS wheel speed sensors.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> That's ok, you should continue to put compressed air in your mercedes.


For those who think N2 is useful, I presume they are also conscientious about maintaining the correct tire pressure. 

Presumable they check tire pressures COLD as discussed above. If low, they add a little Nitrogen using N2 cylinders they keep in the garage or condo or in the trunk for long trips


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Yes REALLY. Some models do, but most do not. TPMS is not required by Transport Canada. Some models also have Flat Tire monitoring, but that is a different animla based on the ABS wheel speed sensors.


I know its not required but I find it hard to believe most don't have TPMS which is the opposite of what I've seen. 
Just curious, where are you getting this information from and/or can you list a few current (2018/2019) models that don't have TPMS?


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> I know its not required but I find it hard to believe most don't have TPMS which is the opposite of what I've seen.
> Just curious, where are you getting this information from and/or can you list a few current (2018/2019) models that don't have TPMS?


I realize that more new cars have TPMS. Far fewer cars even if you only go back 5 years. 

It's probably easier for manufacturers to standardize. It also avoids considerable problems of importing a Canadian car into USA (that does not have TPMS) 

I don't have a list, but I do know that 2019 Subarus don't have TPMS. Nor do at least some Mercedes (they have the flat detection I mentioned) Lower end Hondas and probably many other makes are same. If you have time, go through all the current offerings starting with the smaller cars. I am sure you will find many cars with no TPMS. 

I am happy to not have it! I have read about dealers charging up to $1000 to install a new set of sensors.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

agent99 said:


> I am happy to not have it! I have read about dealers charging up to $1000 to install a new set of sensors.


I bought winter tires for my car and the cost for sensors was $50 per wheel. Anyone who charges $1000 is ripping people off.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Continental Tire failed the "how to deal with it's customers test". 

After reading the story I wouldn't purchase tires from the company.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Prairie Guy said:


> I bought winter tires for my car and the cost for sensors was $50 per wheel. Anyone who charges $1000 is ripping people off.


Certainly does seem like it. But many owners do rely on dealer service. I saw one report down here in USA where BMW dealer quoted an owner $479+tax to install one sensor. Sensor cost was $145 and that was in 2014!

Even at C$50 each plus installation (Tires have to be partly removed and sometimes balanced) plus programming, it is just another potential expense I happy not to have  Apparently sensors should all be of same type to work properly. So if one OE sensor fails, you may have to buy a replacement from dealer.

Anyway, it may be time to move on. I think we may have killed this subject


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

It's the "dealer's" job to deal with the customer. That's the only reason dealer's still exist

Like a few have mentioned if he bought his tires at a decent store like Costco, amazon, Kal tire this would be a none issue

Can Tire has always been crappy tire when it comes to auto service, and they're getting worse as Costco/amazon eat their lunch


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> I realize that more new cars have TPMS. Far fewer cars even if you only go back 5 years.
> 
> It's probably easier for manufacturers to standardize. It also avoids considerable problems of importing a Canadian car into USA (that does not have TPMS)
> 
> ...


I took a quick look and it seems some imports (Toyota/Nissan/VW) don't have TPMS either, the lower models anyways. Surprised Subi's don't offer it in Canada with them being "all about safety".  

For the domestic brands (Ford/GM/FCA) it appears standard equipment now.

Still don't think I would say "most cars" but it's certainly more than I thought.

As for $1000 for TPMS install, ya ... welcome to stealerships


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> ....
> 
> But returning to the issue on this thread, trying to tell us that tires wore out after 30K kilometres through no fault of the owner, is nonsense. As Arthur Conan Doyle had his character Sherlock Holmes say, "“How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?”
> 
> In this case, what is impossible is that the tires wore out after 30K kilometres without the owner having done something wrong. However improbable he wants to say that it was his fault, it must be the truth.


I agree with you. Continental makes over 150 Million tires per year. They have had some tire recalls, but none that seem to fit this description. I would say the balance of probabilities is on Continental's side. The odds of all 4 tires on the same car having the same manufacturing defect are pretty slim, unless there are thousands of others with the same defect that came out of the same bad production run. It is much more likely to be a problem with wheel alignment or long-term under inflation. And I think the alignment is more probable.


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