# Buying US stocks with TDW- very confusing



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry I am still a newbie with US stocks in TDW..If anyone can help out with this, I have called TDW but the rep on the phone didn't really know how to explain it.. 

I had USD money in a money market, auto wash is on. 
Bought some shares of CL.. in account activity it says, converted to [email protected] 4.2% US PREM.. the net amount is also higher. 

Now they sold the USD money market fund.. will this all even out? Do they adjust the net amount?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Yes.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Yes, check back in a few days and it will be set right. You will see that USD money market fund was sold and also converted to CAD @ 4.2% US PREM.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

ok thanks guys  I wish TDW would just hold USD cash.. would make things a lot simpler.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I might not understand the question(i'm rbc direct) i don't know about waterhouse but i don't seem to have the problems in question,if that is the case,why wait on td?screw em!start doing your investing with rbc.Obviously they are slooow to game and that is not your problem(it is there's)walk.Why play by there rules if rbc offers a superior service in regards to usd?again i might not be fully understanding.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Donald I agree, and to be quite honest, I didn't know TD was this bad handling us stocks. I mean, this is unacceptable for today's standards. I am very disappointed and only used them since I was in e-series for several years and they have an easy gambit. 

But really, for a bank like TD, they have the money and resources to make a proper brokerage and stay competitive. I think its a matter of failed execution. 
Some people are in love with TD, but I'm letting that go as I can't stand the Mickey Mouse of their systems. 

I have already started a transfer to Questrade, where I have held accounts with them since 2008. Their service has gotten a lot better, and for god sakes, YOU CAN HOLD USD CASH in a registered account, without it looking a like a mess! 

ALso they gave me a free IPAD during their last promotion, something TDW would never give.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I can tell you jungle M.o---Rbc direct is awesome!!I think of all the big 5 they are answering and delivering.I can't believe you can't hold usd?What the hell is a matter with td is right.....they obviously do not give a **** in respects to what they are offering.....play ball with the market leader in canada(rbc)M.o---that is bush league and td should be ashamed.

Gotta wonder what the c-suite is doing in meetings??How are they this dense?


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Jungle said:


> ok thanks guys  I wish TDW would just hold USD cash.. would make things a lot simpler.


We have a US$ account with TDWH, (as well as a CDN$ account), in which we hold our US stocks and also receive our US divs.


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## fersure (Apr 19, 2009)

But, but, but TD has had the best customer service FOR FIVE YEARS IN A ROW! Pish, what are these plebes harumphing about. US dollar accounts...how dare they even ask. :cower:


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

Nemo2 said:


> We have a US$ account with TDWH, (as well as a CDN$ account), in which we hold our US stocks and also receive our US divs.


taxable acct, yes. registered acct, no.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

jungle i for one feel you are overstepping the line with your irritable & niggling complaints about td waterhouse. This is not the first time.

not only did you receive far more help from this forum with your recent solitary gambit trade than any other member ever has, but you also pestered me personally with several long pmms asking for individualized private one-on-one help.

as you know, i did respond to all of your pmms & i did offer help in a generous manner. However i felt you were excessively demanding & i was surprised when, immediately after your gambit was successfully accomplished, you saw fit to whine unreasonably, here in cmf forum, about the tdw commissions.

the fact is, you were enormously helped to save about $320 in FX fees by spending $20 in commissions. IMHO you had zero cause for complaint, although you did have cause for gratitude.

i would also like to mention, for the record, that you also asked via private pmm for my comments on a lengthy list of the individual US stocks that you were planning to buy.

when i teased you for publicly preaching a devout - one could even say fanatic - couch potato indexation religion here in cmf forum, you replied via pmm that you are a "closet stock picker." Don't you think that your public couch potato posturing smacks somewhat of hypocrisy?

lastly, i would like to mention again - for the nth time - that all brokers in canada, save & except for 3 houses, are *NOT* offering registered accounts in USD because their systems are built on the legacy MS/DOS mainframe ISM system leased from IBM.

this system is a flawless, failure-proof workhorse, which is why it is in such widespread use today. It does not lend itself to the creation of USD registered accounts that conform to canadian ministry of finance requirements. Therefore none of these brokerage houses offer USD registered accounts. TD waterhouse is only one among dozens of canadian brokerages that do not offer USD registered accounts.

of the 3 houses that do offer USD registered accounts, 2 are built on another mainframe called ADP & i do not know what the 3rd is using. ADP in my own personal experience is not as reliable as ISM.

i for one see nothing to be gained from carrying on about the situation. Parties who cannot cope with small details - details that don't bother millions of other clients - should immediately leave td waterhouse or any other broker they happen to dislike, imho. They should instantly migrate to another broker where they believe they might be happier, imho.

as for donald's comments, these strike me as just another instance of personal aggression being forced out upon a neutral external object. In other words, it's a rorschach test. There's nothing whatsoever about tdw - or any other reputable canadian online broker - that is ess aitch eye tee. The word reflects donald's state of mind & has nothing to do with the broker.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Humble, you've been a staunch defender of TD on this forum. I have zero experience with them, but I can understand why individuals can get frustrated. My own experience speaking with both customer service reps and traders with CIBC investors edge over handling $USD in registered accounts has set my teeth a-grinding. To me TD seems an improvement. Still, CIBC reps recognize this as a shortcoming and will claim they are "working on" a system to hold $USD sub accounts if asked.

I'm curious as to why such strong support?


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

It may be worth setting the record straight about TDW. Long before any of the big brokers offered USD RRSP accounts, TDW offered wash trading, which was my primary motivation for moving out of RBC. It saved me a bundle in switching from individual stocks to ETFs. 

But that's in the past. Why do I still stick with TDW? Simple. I have all my accounts at TD and I like the convenience of having everything under one roof. Not segregating USD and CAD in registered accounts is costing me but enough to want me to switch. I estimate a hit of 2 bps on the entire portfolio. 

It is absolutely not true that TD never offered any incentive to switch. They once offered 1 percent of the entire portfolio value to switch. (And to be fair, so did RBC).


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Humble:I could careless about td(i do business with Rbc direct)Personal aggression forced on a neutral external object?Jungle you don't have to listen to me.I like rbc direct platform period(& maybe rbc fits jungle's needs?,it was a suggestion)..........This is how free speech works humble!You seem to like to attach/convey what a person emotions are when a poster post.Why?Get back to the topic at hand...........stay on topic.....don't get your panties in a knot.
Carry on.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

donald said:


> What the hell is a matter with td is right.....they obviously do not give a **** in respects to what they are offering.....play ball with the market leader in canada(rbc)M.o---that is bush league and td should be ashamed


the above was a suggestion? 
it was about getting back to the topic at hand?
it was about staying on topic?
donald wants to keep his panties straight? :biggrin: :biggrin:



> it was a suggestion ... Get back to the topic at hand...........stay on topic.....don't get your panties in a knot


i don't know. Doesn't look like a suggestion to me. Looks like verbal abuse. Uncalled-for attack on a broker where donald has never even been a client.

in fact, rbc is not the market leader in canada save & except by measure of bonds & other interest-bearing paper held by its clients. RBC DS is a giant investment banker with canada's largest bond underwriting business, especially among US institutions. Some of the paper RBC underwrites gets sold to their discount clients, who often come to them for no other reason than that they are RBC bank clients already.

having clients who sit in the same bonds for 5-10-15 years & never trade anything is not really a profitable business plan, even if the clients are worth $1 million each.

in trade transaction volume - which is where the profits are made - the big green is the leader in canada. Has been for a number of years. Big green discount trade volume outstrips full-service brokers.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

What does rbc's bond desk have to do with jungle?You can't hold usd inside a td reg acct,isn't that the question?.....Jungle just wants to solve his problem.....I doubt he cares about the institutional side of things.

Isn't the question about td's platform on the retail side for a self-direct reg acct?Is td behind rbc in what they offer RE:usd?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Maybe Later said:


> CIBC reps recognize this as a shortcoming and *will claim they are "working on" *a system to hold $USD sub accounts if asked.


I have asked many times, and this is indeed the exact answer that not only the customer service reps give. 

While I understand what HP is saying with respect to system limitations, it doesn't stop me from asking what I need/want, and what I know others in the industry can handle already, but I make my complaints directly as I'll get nowhere by bashing my broker here.

Like CC, I also like the convenience of having all my accounts in one place, and also recognizing the fact that ALL brokers have certain limitations.

I'm reminded of a former very aggressive colleage, who used to say that we needed to be creative and find solutions when clients would ask for a set-up that the company was not able to handle. She figured that IT personnel could figure out the impossible, so long as the 'creativity' part was something that she would merely have to demand, and not have to figure out herself. :rolleyes2:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

donald you are the one who said rbc is the "market leader" & i replied no, they are not the market leader.

rbc has a large book because a large proportion of their discount clients have arrived only to buy bonds. RBC is a big bond house. Bond-holding clients don't trade very much, even in discountland. Holding clients' bonds for years on end is not a winning business strategy for a discount broker.

rbc certainly does not lead in trade transaction volume, which is the normal measure applied to discount brokers.

the original question in this thread was how to interpret tdw's registered account record-keeping. It was a somewhat redundant question since *how* to read tdw rrsp accounts has been discussed in this forum hundreds of times over the years, just as gambitting has been discussed hundreds of times. 

in addition, the individualized explanations which the waterhouse representatives have been giving to jungle are 100% accurate.

for whatever reason, jungle keeps on asking for re-explanations of the waterhouse explanations in this forum. I myself have volunteered several hours trying to reassure jungle that, yes, the waterhouse explanations are correct.

btw, donald, this jungle-tdw-rrsp story has been going on now for several weeks. I haven't really noticed you ever trying to help, other than bursting out with obscenities higher in this thread.

the simplest solution is probably the best. It is transparently obvious. Any investor who is so unhappy should promptly move his rrsp somewhere else, imho.

in other developments, yes, any person can hold USD inside a tdw rrsp exceptionally well. USD are held in a US money market fund. Funds are instantly available to purchase US securities. Perhaps even better than cash, the US MMF holding might even pay some interest!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> While I understand what HP is saying with respect to system limitation ...


oh, good. Somebody other than CC is finally understanding that the ISM system is difficult if not impossible to build a canadian registered account platform on.



> it doesn't stop me from asking what I need/want, and what I know others in the industry can handle already ...


it's a situation where, if you want what others in the industry can handle already, you would have to go to the others. It's like if you crave new york city night & day, you have to move to the US of A.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Humble your help has been amazing on the gambit.. and thank you for taking the time on the forums and PM's. I would say you are the resident expert here with TDW gambit. Please don't take my dislike of TD's handling of activity for that.. has nothing to do with you. More of an irritating thing for me and disappointment from a such a large broker. I just wanted to be 100% sure this was going to add up.. cause I couldn't understand that from account activity. Very confusing. 

You had asked why I preach couch potato on the forums and now buying stocks. So I explained why in the pm.. I have no problem answering that and still believe it's a great strategy for long term.

I did convert over $52k to usd while withdrawing out from the market.. not something I like to play with due to associate risks.. but I got it done, thanks to the help of the members and you on the forums. 

Donald suggested above I move brokers-and I am. The transfer is in progress. 

Every broker has pros and cons.. but my td does not meet my expectation with the handling of USD cash.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Please don't take my dislike of TD's handling of activity for that.. has nothing to do with you. More of an irritating thing for me and disappointment from a such a large broker...


With the risk of throwing gasoline on the fire ... 

I can't help but wonder why you would think it has nothing to do with HP? 

If you look at it from his perspective - he and others have pointed out it's not just a TDW issue. Yet the posts (I've seen several) are written as if TDW was the *only* broker that does not offer a USD RRSP. It would seem that acknowledging this fact would confirm that this fact has been understood.




Jungle said:


> Donald suggested above I move brokers-and I am. The transfer is in progress.


Which sounds like a good move as this will provide a feature you value.




Jungle said:


> Every broker has pros and cons.. but my td does not meet my expectation with the handling of USD cash.


Again - "every broker" and "td" whether intended or not is sending the message that TDW is an exception in this respect where in fact, my understanding is there is a long list that don't, including CIBC, Scotia iTrade, National Bank, IB, HSBC, Credential Direct to name a few.


So by all means - feel free to move the account and say the USD RRSP is why you are moving it ... just quit writing as if TDW is the brokerage that does not offer this.


Cheers


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> It may be worth setting the record straight about TDW. Long before any of the big brokers offered USD RRSP accounts, TDW offered wash trading, which was my primary motivation for moving out of RBC. It saved me a bundle in switching from individual stocks to ETFs.
> 
> But that's in the past. Why do I still stick with TDW? Simple. I have all my accounts at TD and I like the convenience of having everything under one roof. Not segregating USD and CAD in registered accounts is costing me but enough to want me to switch. I estimate a hit of 2 bps on the entire portfolio.
> 
> It is absolutely not true that TD never offered any incentive to switch. They once offered 1 percent of the entire portfolio value to switch. (And to be fair, so did RBC).


How long ago was it that RBC did not offer this?


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Who is the leader in profits?



humble_pie said:


> the above was a suggestion?
> it was about getting back to the topic at hand?
> it was about staying on topic?
> donald wants to keep his panties straight? :biggrin: :biggrin:
> ...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

If more people speak with their money as Jungle is doing, they will only be more pressured to upgrade from MS-DOS. I've read on other forums that TD often claim they are actually "working on" a USD RRSP. I imagine so, especially if humble is correct about the the age of their system (We had DOS-era programs in our industry and it was becoming very costly to bring people out of retirement whenever something changed!!)

I suspect there has been asymmetrical warfare lurking in Canadian cyber shadows between MS-DOS-giants and the FX-fee-rebels. Years ago, blogs that normally had a few comments suddenly had hundreds of outrageous horror stories by suspicious one-post-wonders. Many real inexperienced newbs chimed to blame their instant-gratification-induced-1st-world-problems on the discount brokers.

Improvements made by the discount brokers are good for everyone. I imagine RBC USD RRSP was in direct response to Questrade and other innovative USD offerings. Questrade has made huge upgrades to their platforms this year, and I'm very pleased with the recent tweaks and updates as well. On Jan 1 2013 they rid themselves of the monkey on their back and most didn't even notice. 

There's apparently even a class action lawsuit open against the big 5 on these hidden FX fees. I've considered a move to TDWH giant just because of all the cyber-horror-stories, but so far it's been quite livable with the uprising rebels. Is it not after all, one of Canada's most profitable industries?


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## caricole (Mar 12, 2012)

donald said:


> Humble:I could careless about td(i do business with Rbc direct)Personal aggression forced on a neutral external object?Jungle you don't have to listen to me.I like rbc direct platform period(& maybe rbc fits jungle's needs?,it was a suggestion)..........This is how free speech works humble!You seem to like to attach/convey what a person emotions are when a poster post.Why?Get back to the topic at hand...........stay on topic.....don't get your panties in a knot.
> Carry on.


I am also a staunch defender of TDW, and a big oposer of BMO discount Broker and RBC discount broker, they both doublcrossed me on the type of operations they allow at the time of transfer

1) BMO discount broker, transfer from full service broker Nesbitt ...in the account I had NAKED CALLS, they accepted everything, but at the first occasion I wanted to do a NAKED CALL...they refused, it had nothing to do with the value of the account, they just did not wanted to do it WITHOUT REASONS OR EXPLANATIONS

2) So I transfered to RBC discount, again beïn doublecrossed....verbally they will accept naked calls and putts..but 2 conditions (kept Under silence)
A) the account has to be OVER 250K and 
B) these operations can be done only true one of their full brokers at the FULL RATE COMMISSIONS

3) So I ended up at TDW after obtaining INFO....for naked calls and puts, the account has to have a minimum value of 40K, since that day I transfered to TDW, no problems

4) TDW were also the first to fix the rule of no administration cost for FAMILY account of 250K, the others followed 6 months later. then lowered the value to 100K, the others folowed 6 months later
then lowered the value to 50K again the others followed 6 months later. it became family value 50K, and the brokerage fee for transactions by computor...9,99$ stock over 2.00$ regardless of quantity 

5) As for U/S accounts, you can hold U/S dollars in NON REGISTERED ACCOUNT....without problem

6) If you have a U/S money market account and you make a U/S purchase, payble after 3 days in U/S money, so what...you cash some U/S money market and the cash becomes availabe the NEXT DAY

7) My question; Is the purpose of this post to discredit TDW,,,who in my eyes has always given me a very satisfactory service, and at the same time promote RBC discount broker who doublecrossed me and this being the reason ME to have parted from them ??????


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

The purpose of the post was to suggest an alternative than dealing with waterhouse re:usd in rrsp's.Waterhouse was the broker in the question.I didn't start a thread bashing waterhouse.I'm sorry you have had problems with rbc!but it was jungle's post...........you and humble gotta RELAX!Jungle's needs might be different than your........I added my 2 cents that is all.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mode they're in the 9th sub-sub-basement of the TD north tower

the old boys, the ones they
hauled out of retirement
to build the TD
USD
RSP

lunch is lipitor
viagra, coumadin
oxycontin, celebrex
blood thinners
hair thickeners
served by strippers
whizzing by in
wheelchairs

they've been working there
since 2007


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

you didn't start bashing td waterhouse? what's this then - sweetness & love?




donald said:


> What the hell is a matter with td is right.....they obviously do not give a **** in respects to what they are offering.....play ball with the market leader in canada(rbc)M.o---that is bush league and td should be ashamed.
> 
> Gotta wonder what the c-suite is doing in meetings??How are they this dense?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

That is called agreeing with jungle(i would be frustrated also)as a relative newbie in the investing world(2.5 yrs) the markets and diy is hard enough without dealing with platform problem on top of it.....maybe for a ''old'' hand like you it ain't.

The old guard is changing and we(gen x/y)are going to demand better(we are the future humble)you feel me?Maybe it is time td started answering in reguards to this issue?The thing with us(under 40 crowd)is we will walk!(the grey breads should wake up)anyways i don't want to make this thread about me........it is obviously a problem at waterhouse.I'm going out tonight so im out...........hope fredie boi wins.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I would like to add just one more thing.The trend to diy investing is not going away(m.o)My generation is waking up to the fact mutual funds are DONE!And this is obviously something blackrock ect ect are on top of(etfs,ect)Diy investing is not going to be some slightly obscure activity like in the past.We have all witnesses our parents mutual funds go nowhere(and the 08 meltdown) and the fees they paid.

The trend to diy investing is gaining speed and i don't think it will stop(i would like to see a stat curve on this)The entire investment landscape(individual retail)is changing and td should be acting....You don't agree humble?Can't you yourself notice the shift/change?Alot of my peers are starting to diy invest and why wouldn't td want to make it easy for us?They don't care?for that matter all the brokers in questions?Any insight?why make it harder?re:issues.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Maybe Later said:


> Humble, you've been a staunch defender of TD on this forum. I have zero experience with them, but I can understand why individuals can get frustrated. My own experience speaking with both customer service reps and traders with CIBC investors edge over handling $USD in registered accounts has set my teeth a-grinding. To me TD seems an improvement. Still, CIBC reps recognize this as a shortcoming and will claim they are "working on" a system to hold $USD sub accounts if asked.
> 
> I'm curious as to why such strong support?



so sorry i didn't reply before.

i don't believe i defend or support tdw as much as i dislike seeing one broker unjustly singled out - as tdw has been on this forum for several years now - & turned into the scapegoat for the vast majority of the industry.

as several here have pointed out, the majority of brokers are not offering USD rrsps yet. The 3 that do - questrade, bmo & roybank - all have noticeable drawbacks & weaknesses as discount brokers. These drawbacks & weaknesses are topics for another thread.

i never like seeing one enterprise - or one individual or one nation - pushed into the role of scapegoat when a small or limited shortcoming that it may have is endemic & is shared by many others across the board.

on a related issue, i am wondering if i might make a small suggestion to you? yes, i can understand how a cibc rrsp might be a bit undesirable. However, if your rrsp is heavy in US securities & if you care about this sector, i do believe that transferring this account to bmo or roybank might be a wiser move than transferring to tdw.

tdw would only offer a tiny increment of improvement at present. Its long-awaited true USD rrsp may eventually turn out to be first-rate; but this account type has not yet seen the light of day. This is why, right now, i feel that bmo or roybank might be safer harbours, if you are considering a change & if you place a heavy emphasis on USD trading in rrsp.

of course, if you are an options trader, or if you do pairs trading, arbitrage, overseas markets or short-stock-long-call strategies, then simpler operations like bmo & roybank would be poor choices. For these, an investor needs a bigger, slicker, more complex broker operation. This is where tdw, scotia & interactive come to mind.

notwithstanding the fact that none of these 3 has a USD rrsp ! as many wise people have pointed out, there really is no perfect broker. Sometimes it's helpful to have accounts at 2 different firms.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> With the risk of throwing gasoline on the fire ...
> 
> I can't help but wonder why you would think it has nothing to do with HP?
> 
> ...


Sure, all brokers that do not handle USD cash would have this problem. I don't have experience with all the rest. I don't think HP has any control over how TD or another bank handles their brokerage. That's why I think their problems have nothing to do with HP.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

RBull said:


> Who is the leader in profits?
> 
> Last edited by RBull; Yesterday at 05:02 PM. Reason: re read your post and got my answer. RBC



for the 3rd time, roybank discount broker is the leader only in AUM & only because of clients' large bond holdings. These would not be profitable for a discount broker since clients tend to hold bonds for 2-5-10-15 years.

afaik bank-owned discount brokers do not break out their financial figures in the parent bank's financial reports, so there is no way of knowing which discounter in canada is most profitable.

instead, one could guesstimate from trade volume figs. Leader is tdw.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

This forum is here to shine a light on exactly this kind of privileged knowledge. If the thread title was CIBC or National Bank I would say the same thing. If TDWH really cared, why wouldn't they very simply offer a courtesy refund on these opps-I-did-it-again-FX-fees. I don't think as many basic DIY investors would sign up for this scalpage if they at the very least were made aware. The lack of transparency is why I will continue to bash them publicly. I have some kind of knee-jerk reaction to seeing people being broadsided with hidden fees, even if I forget I do profit from it myself. MERs are the most chastised fee on these forums and this can actually be much worse if you're trading in USD and unaware. The MER is even for a service whereas recurring FX fee is just... outrageous


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mode FX fees on dividends have zero to do with MERs on etfs or mutual funds. Nada. Rien du tout.

why not drop MERs off the discussion plate? nobody here owns conventional mutual funds with their high MERs. 

folks in cmf forum own ETFs. An important property of ETFs that is considered hyper-attractive is their ultra-low MERs, since they have no active management but are index-based. MERs for etfs can range from below .10 to as high as 1% for specialty etfs whose indexes are more or less custom-built.

so i propose we stop talking about MERs? now & forever, please.

moving on, re FX on dividends, this is where the stories lie. But hear this: there are several different stories. If u want to bash, u need to bash with deadly precision. Every good soldier knows that.

more about the different FX dividend stories later. But for starters:

- only one of the stories involves FX fees on US dividends charged by brokers - the vast majority of brokers - who do not offer USD rrsps. Dollarwise, this is a minor story imho.

- far bigger stories are FX fees charged by *ALL* brokers (including questrade) on *ALL* dividends from the following companies in *ALL* types of accounts. Repeat: all brokers, all types of accounts. For many decades. With no trace or indication whatsoever. Dollarwise, this is the real scandal imho.

Encana Corp. (ECA)
Talisman Energy Inc. (TLM)
Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan (POT)
Agrium Inc. (AGU)
Methanex Corp. (MX)
Barrick Gold Corp. (ABX)
Goldcorp Inc. (G)
Kinross Gold Corp. (K)
Yamana Gold Inc. (YRI)
IAMGOLD Corp. (IMG)
Inmet Mining Corp. (IMN)
Thomson Reuters Corp. (TRI)
Magna International Inc. (MG)
Brookfield Office Properties Inc. (BPO)
Brookfield Asset Management Inc. (BAM.A)
Brookfield Infrastructure Partners LP (BIP.UN)
Brookfield Renewable Energy Partners LP (BEP.UN)
WaterFurnace Renewable Energy Inc. (WFI)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

more dividend stories later.

in the meantime won't you please read this exposé article from Canadian Capitalist:

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/canadian-stocks-paying-us-dollar-dividends/


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I've often wondered if TD would make more money by waving or at least significantly reducing exchange fees. There is no excuse for exchange fees being this high in these days of lightning quick transaction times. I have a basket of Canadian stocks that I follow but with US stocks, I tend to stick to ETFs just because I refuse to pay FX and I'm too impatient to spend time on the phone line to reduce fees through Norbert's gambit. I would estimate that TD looses 10-30 trades a year from me because of FX fees. If I am anywhere near typical, TD is loosing a lot of potential trade commissions. 

All that being said, maybe I'm better off in the ETFs to begin with - but that doesn't mean that TD is.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

TDW used to be number 1 in customer satisfaction surveys....but those days are over. TDW closed their Edmonton office due to cost cutting measures. I used to be able to get through to a TDW representative in 1 minute....now it sometimes takes me 20 minutes to get through to a TDW representative.

I finally got to speak to a TDW discount brokerage supervisor. She admitted to me that a lot of clients were complaining about the increased wait times. She also told me that they are trying to correct the situation.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Thanks for the reply humble and for the suggestions. 

Like Tgal, CIBC IE has been convenient for me, however I take every opportunity when speaking to someone there to inquire about USD registered accounts . I understand that it is unlikely to happen soon since the effort and expense, not to mention possible risk to the brand should there be an "oops", is likely not worth it to satisfy the DIY customers that, like me, have not yet chosen to vote with their feet. My needs are fairly vanilla, but I value efficiency and my time, so I do see a move, or additional accounts, in the intermediate future. Since we are accumulating, with a growing alphabet of registered accounts (RRSP, RESP, TFSA), were I required to choose just one, TDW would have been on my list for the convenience of auto-washing USD trades (and distributions?) combined with the availability of the e-series funds for shorter term exposure to those indices.

At the same time I do expect any service provider, discount brokers included, to at least appear to be trying to responding to their customers requests. Even the somewhat clumsy "forex netting" at IE is an acknowledgement that there is room for improvement. The one thing that would make me an ex-customer faster than any other would be the suggestion that they don't want my business and I take my money elsewhere. So, I'll keep asking even if I don't put much stock in the answer. At least they pretend to care enough to lie to me :smilet-digitalpoint.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spidey said:


> I've often wondered if TD would make more money by waving or at least significantly reducing exchange fees. There is no excuse for exchange fees being this high in these days of lightning quick transaction times.
> 
> 1. I have a basket of Canadian stocks that I follow but with US stocks, I tend to stick to ETFs just because I refuse to pay FX ...
> 
> 2. ... and I'm too impatient to spend time on the phone line to reduce fees through Norbert's gambit. I would estimate that TD looses 10-30 trades a year from me because of FX fees. If I am anywhere near typical, TD is loosing a lot of potential trade commissions.


spidey this quote is so unlike you, because it is just a tad mixed-up & you are normally so extremely well-organized!

1. this must be in registered account? because, as you well know, tdw offers 100% USD cash & margin accounts, no FX in these USD accounts, no problem whatsoever maintaining US dollars & receiving *all* US dividends & distributions in USD.

only tdw registered accounts have a slight remaining problem, which is that US dividends in reg'd accounts are still subject to FX fees. Otherwise, gambitting provides currency exchange with zero fees while tdw autowashing procedures maintain all balances, purchases & sales in USD, with no conversion whatsoever.

2. the beauty of tdw registered accounts is that gambit trades can be done automatically online with 2 fast easy trades, one right after the other.

look at none's recent example. She flew through her gambit effortlessly & pronounced it "no big deal."

jungle's recent example was more stressful for him, but only from his personal point of view. Technically, it was an easy, perfect, instant gambit. The way i see it, there's no excuse for someone like Spidey not to be doing these gambit trades in rrsp whenever necessary!

as for reducing commissions at tdw, i don't get the impression they're talking about that, high up in the downtown TD tower ...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Maybe Later said:


> ... TDW would have been on my list for the convenience of auto-washing USD trades (and distributions?) combined with the availability of the e-series funds for shorter term exposure to those indices


US distributions & US dividends are the small remaining Achilles' heel in the tdw registered account platform. Every other difficulty has been solved by the workarounds the big green has developed, such as having their own staff instantly flip US currency into & out of US MMF (thereby preventing any exchange into canadian dollars with its concomitant FX fee) in a procedure they have baptized - for reasons known only to themselves - as "autowashing."

but whatever one calls it, the laundry does get done. Spanking clean every time.

there is one big advantage to tdw that nobody has mentioned. It has a vast assortment of research tools. At least 30 or 40 different services, some very expensive to buy if one is paying independently outside the big green.

i've just done my tax returns so i know i had 266 gain/loss trades to report. All were done in pairs or trios, so it means at most about 100 decisions about an underlying company's stock each year.

still, for each & every one of those 100 decisions, i whiz through 10-15 different research services. Everything from latest insider trading to advanced charts to earnings/financial news to analysts' commentaries. Even for a pitty little $240 option trade, i still do the drill. The convenience of having all of these services easily available on one website, with one login, is priceless to me. I always feel i'm receiving several thousand $$ in research services every year at tdw.

as a matter of fact, even when trading my backup account at another broker, i set up & research trades first at tdw!

staff at the big green tell me that clients are not using their Markets & Research website as much as had been hoped. Perhaps usage will increase. I for one could not get along without it.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> spidey this quote is so unlike you, because it is just a tad mixed-up & you are normally so extremely well-organized!
> 
> 1. this must be in registered account? because, as you well know, tdw offers 100% USD cash & margin accounts, no FX in these USD accounts, no problem whatsoever maintaining US dollars & receiving *all* US dividends & distributions in USD.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Humble. I do make most of my shorter term trades in my registered accounts and tend to keep my longer term holds in a non-registered accounts - goes contrary to conventional wisdom but I pull out less hair at tax time. I have to admit that I didn't realize that it was that easy. :stupid: In the past I've been waiting on the telephone to speak to someone. However, none's example still involves:

1. Purchasing BMO, 
2. Selling BMO 
3. Purchasing Stock 

I agree that it is much less than FX charges, but it is still 3X the commission. This may be a pittance for a longer term, large purchase but for someone taking the odd small "fly" on a stock it increases the costs to the point to make frequent trading unpalatable. (Again perhaps a good thing for most investors - but for TD?) I also agree that lowering commissions is likely not a priority. What I am wondering is if TD would see more profit flowing from increased volumes by eliminating FX trade charges, or by perhaps changing something like $14.99 for American trades (which would basically split the difference from the wash). They could make this a deal for trades only and still keep same FX fees on dividends. I can't imagine that the increased traffic from trade in US securities combined with the resulting FX charges from more US dividend holdings wouldn't be significantly more profitable than the current situation. However, I suppose it is also hard to imagine that those in the TD tower haven't crunched the numbers on this scenario.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spidey said:


> However, this [gambit] still involves:
> 
> 1. Purchasing BMO,
> 2. Selling BMO
> 3. Purchasing Stock


no, not quite. What happens is that investor, at the outset, gambits a decent amount in rrsp, say 20-30-even 40k or more. Depends on the rrsp.

investor now has a nice inventory of USD in rrsp that he will keep forevermore, world without end. Never again an FX fee in rrsp at the big green.

buy a US stock? easy, the website recognizes that he has the $$ in the US money market fund. Autowash will sell exactly the amount of MMF needed for this trade.

Sell a US stock? also easy, autowash will grab the USD proceeds & put them into MMF as of settlement date.

myself i might actually carry out a gambit in rrsp perhaps every 2nd year at the most. Perhaps 5 times a decade. It's never a question of gambit-as-i-go.

re frequent small trades in registered accounts to lighten the tax-reporting obligation: this is exactly what i do as well. It's a bit difficult because no one is allowed to sell naked options in reg'd accts (min of finance rules.) So this really hamstrings the option trades i can do in reg'd. What this boils down to is trading speculative small caps in tfsa.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> ... The old guard is changing and we(gen x/y)are going to demand better(we are the future humble)you feel me? ... anyways i don't want to make this thread about me ...


If you don't what the thread to be about you - why are you adding stuff like "you feel me?" which inserts you into the it?

Returning to the thread, I noticed this article indicating Scotia iTrade USD RRSP at the time of offer is the not same as Questrades & RBC's. Specifically, it is a CAD account and simply offers a cheaper rate for currency conversions. Anyone know if this is still the case? I tried their web site but didn't easily find the answer.

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/scotia-itrade-offers-a-us-friendly-rrsp/2/


If it's still true, there likely only a few who will benefit from it compared to the other offerings and it should be carefully evaluated.


Cheers


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Returning to the thread, I noticed this article indicating Scotia iTrade USD RRSP at the time of offer is the not same as Questrades & RBC's.
> Specifically, it is a CAD account and simply offers a cheaper rate for currency conversions.
> Anyone know if this is still the case? I tried their web site but didn't easily find the answer.


Yes, it is still the same.
It is [so]called _The US-friendly RRSP_.
All they are saying is that in exchange for $30 a quarter, you will get a better exchange rate.



> If it's still true, there likely only a few who will benefit from it compared to the other offerings and it should be carefully evaluated.


The benefit is that (arguably) you get a better exchange rate by paying $120 a year.
It does _nothing_ about the issue of USD dividends from Canadian companies.
You will still get dinged for that.

And yes, just like every other brokerage, Scotia iTrade is also "working" on building a true USD RRSP account.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> Yes, it is still the same.
> 
> It is [so]called _The US-friendly RRSP_.
> All they are saying is that in exchange for $30 a quarter, you will get a better exchange rate.
> ...


 ... which is good to know for those who value a for lack of better term, "true" USD RRSP. 

I have trouble imagining anyone on CMF having both the volume and frequency of USD currency conversions to make this worthwhile when there are other options (i.e. "true" USD RRSPs or automatic wash-trading at other brokers). 




HaroldCrump said:


> It does _nothing_ about the issue of USD dividends from Canadian companies.
> You will still get dinged for that.


This appears to the main "constant" factor ... 


Cheers


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> staff at the big green tell me that clients are not using their Markets & Research website as much as had been hoped. Perhaps usage will increase. I for one could not get along without it.


i am trying to put it to better use myself .. there is a *lot* there but it is not well organized or intuitive at all ... 

you should be able to pull your holdings into a portfolio for example without entering it all by hand ... 
their charting doesn't work in some areas .. 
they use confusing terms for things like "portfolios" ... 
their colors are so muted it becomes very hard to tease out one stock from another ... 

but having said all that, they have a boatload of useful research and report material, their site is loaded with stuff ... 

i just called to journal over some cibc shares and sell them in the us side and the csr was a peach, could not have been more helpful and did it for the webroker price of 9.99


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I agree - the Market and research part is quite nice but it needs better integration. It automatically picking up dividends is nice but it does seem a little silly to have to re-enter everything by hand. Operations like that is a main reason why computers were invented to begin with.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it's important to understand that the tdw Markets & Research section is a separate section - actually a separate website - grafted onto tdw's trading platforms such as webbroker & active trader.

M & R is hosted by a firm in boulder, colorado. This firm specializes in design & build of intricate financial websites. Ultimately, it's a british firm. Very talented, imho. Anybody want to know their name, please send me a pmm.

tdw's M & R was created to serve both td waterhouse canada & td ameritrade USA. That's why all the research is clustered in one section. There are massive & distinct differences between the feeds for each country, of course. I've worked a tiny bit on the newsfeeds, since even the news is slightly different for canada & for the US.

cat where doesn't charting work? i find their advanced charting feature to be one of the best. So far it has worked for me without fail.

there is a 2nd charting service in M & R, from an ottawa-based company called Recognia. Their charts are available under "technical insight" & elsewhere. It's true that this service can be slow to connect & it does fail sometimes. However the failure is from the Recognia servers, not Markets & Research.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Dividends aside,what about rebalancing/trimming/profit taking/closing out a entire position sect or harvesting losses?In regards to holding American stocks?yeah dividend streams maybe won't have a huge impact,but it is fresh money and the above mention where not having usd is a pita and at least with rbc when you go to usd cash it is set up simple/built in and risk free.
I don't get how td is better pertaining to this.I'm not a water house client so maybe I'm not understanding.


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

I called TDW to setup auto-wash, which was hassle-free since the reps all know about it. 

Even with my smallish foray into non-Canadian ETFs of about 20k, 1.5% in fees would be $300. With auto-wash setup, only two transaction fees of 9.95 are paid to convert those funds to U.S., $280 now stays in my pocket, if I understand this right?

Once again, CMF proves to be a wealth of info - thanks to all who contributed to the various threads on the topic!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

MRT said:


> Once again, CMF proves to be a wealth of info - thanks to all who contributed to the various threads on the topic!


Agreed. I've learned a lot here!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Sure, all brokers that do not handle USD cash would have this problem. I don't have experience with all the rest. I don't think HP has any control over how TD or another bank handles their brokerage. That's why I think their problems have nothing to do with HP.


If you want to complain undisturbed about the issue, it would seem it's as easy as acknowledging that this is a broader issue than your particular broker. That seems to be the main area of disagreement.

Bear in mind that a range of people are reading CMF so a novice could read your comments, pick another broker and end up with exactly the same issue or worse, pick the USD RRSP "friendly" option.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

donald said:


> Dividends aside,what about rebalancing/trimming/profit taking/closing out a entire position sect or harvesting losses? ... I don't get how td is better pertaining to this. I'm not a water house client so maybe I'm not understanding.


You might want to re-read some of HP's descriptions in more detail then. 

I haven't done this yet but it seems clearly written that once auto-wash is turned on, rebalancing/trimming/profit taking/closing out a USD position will auto wash into the USD MMF fund. For these actions - nothing needs to be done, other than avoid being confused by the transition step.

As for better - the first place to look is the cost. As posted, someone else did their currency conversion that would have been $300 for $20. For other brokers, one only has to look at the USD RRSP "friendly" version where there's $120 a year for the privilege of currency conversions at a preferred rate that is likely a lot higher than $20. Or maybe there's brokers out there that don't offer the auto wash.


As for "true" USD RRSPs - correct me if I've misunderstood but my understanding is that in the same way, all new money going into the USD RRSP will have a currency conversion rate attached (unless one can contribute USD from other sources?). It will be simpler as there is no need for the USD MMF fund (unless one parks money there).


At the end of the day - it boils down to number of conversions and what one values.


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

as usual eclectic has got all the details right.

what it boils down to is that the big green rrsp operates exactly like a USD account with one small exception which they are working on to solve, namely, FX fees that are still being charged on US source dividends.

this is too bad, but clients who feel they cannot tolerate this simply have to go somewhere else.

clients who stay at the big green - evidently a whole lot of clients - know that when they "read" or look at their rrsp accounts, everything is being reported in canadian dollars. Every single little minute detail. Understandably, this can cause anxiety for some people.

but everyone knows about code, right? about learning to read music? or learning other languages? or other alphabets? or learning about options trading?

because that's all these are. Sets of relationships. Behind the canadian dollar "code" of a tdw rrsp lies a perfectly-functioning US dollar rrsp. Extra funds, instead of being left in cash where they would be instantly exchanged into canadian currency, are automatically "washed" into US MMF. Whenever funds are needed to buy actual US securities, the right amount of funds are automatically "washed" out of MMF.

eclectic mentions another benefit, which involves new contributions to rrsp accounts. Since most people are paid at work in canadian dollars, one imagines that most new contributions to rrsp commence as CAD. An investor can contribute new canadian dollars to rrsp, save them up in a HISA-type account until he has $10,000 or more, then gambit the dollars effortlessly into USD for a pair of commissions if he wants.

an investor at bmo or roybank can do the same. Gambits at these firms will also be instant online gambits. These gambits wlll cost the same pair of commissions as at td waterhouse. No more, no less.

all in all, we really do have a lot of excellent choices.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> If you want to complain undisturbed about the issue, it would seem it's as easy as acknowledging that this is a broader issue than your particular broker. That seems to be the main area of disagreement.
> 
> Bear in mind that a range of people are reading CMF so a novice could read your comments, pick another broker and end up with exactly the same issue or worse, pick the USD RRSP "friendly" option.
> 
> ...


But stil the fact remails that TDW display of account activity for USD handeling is a mess and very confusing. 
I don't know why you have such an issue with me acknowlledging it's a boader issue. For one, I don't know if other brokers have the same display problems. ANd since my account is with TDW.. that is really what I was trying to understand and posted this thread. The topics were about TDW account activity... not other brokers. Donald asked a question about transferring and I answered. Maybe you should start a thread on the other brokers to share your experience so other members can know.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> as usual eclectic has got all the details right.


Well I have incentive ... I've just about to gambit with $40K. 




humble_pie said:


> what it boils down to is that the big green rrsp operates exactly like a USD account with one small exception which they are working on to solve, namely, FX fees that are still being charged on US source dividends.
> 
> this is too bad, but clients who feel they cannot tolerate this simply have to go somewhere else.


That's where the tradeoff seems to be a flat rate currency exchange with the US source dividends FX'd in a wash setup versus whatever the currency exchange is with US source dividends left alone in what I'm calling a "true" USD RRSP. Each investor will have their own preference based on how they plan to trade, I'd expect.




humble_pie said:


> eclectic mentions another benefit, which involves new contributions to rrsp accounts. Since most people are paid at work in canadian dollars, one imagines that most new contributions to rrsp commence as CAD. An investor can contribute new canadian dollars to rrsp, save them up in a HISA-type account until he has $10,000 or more, then gambit the dollars effortlessly into USD for a pair of commissions if he wants.
> 
> an investor at bmo or roybank can do the same. Gambits at these firms will also be instant online gambits. These gambits wlll cost the same pair of commissions as at td waterhouse. No more, no less.
> 
> all in all, we really do have a lot of excellent choices.


Hmmmm ... I can understand saving up to have a bigger savings but that's a personal choice. I'd expect some to want to redeploy the money into investments faster. One would have to figure out what the breakeven point is and how much more one wants to convert to make it worthwhile - but it would not appear that waiting for $10K is a requirement.

If one has $10K (or my $40K) - by all means, the savings is greater.


Going back to Donald's question of what situation would be better with the Gambit (whether through TDW or BMO or whichever broker supports it), I'd expect that an investor who avoids dividend stocks would prefer the gambit with a flat currency conversion rate versus a "true" USD RRSP. After all, if one is converting $10K or more at at time as one's biggest expense - a flat $20 is a better deal, is it not?


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Jungle said:


> I don't know why you have such an issue with me acknowlledging it's a boader issue.
> 
> For one, I don't know if other brokers have the same display problems.


If you were acknowledging it's a broader issue - I would not have posted anything. 

The issue for me is that HP has clearly identified in the past that a lot more brokers than TD are affected yet a novice reading the thread could easily decide they'll avoid TDW and pick Scotia - just to end up in the same position.


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

eclectic i hope u won't mind just a tiny little tweak?

rrsp clients at bmo & i would believe also at roybank have *both* USD dividends with no FX conversions plus they can gambit online to their heart's content like liddle lambs, for a pair of small commish just like td waterhouse in rrsp!

the drawbacks i know at bmo are that the house doesn't do anything fancy. Option trading is expensive + no knowledgeable service. No overseas trading. Available research is nice & well chosen at bmo but nowhere near the order of magnitude of what's available chez tdw. 

what i hear is that the same obtains at roybank. Nice but middle-of-the-road. Good fixed-income selection. Options or anything else fancy = pita.

as for any gambit anywhere with less than, say, 6-8-10k, one has to weigh up the 2 $10 gambit commish plus figure out the broker's standard FX fee on the applicable amount to see which approach costs less. Remembering meanwhile that a gambit does mean work & even a tiny window of risk for the investor. All in all, most folks generally say they would not bother to gambit less than 10k.

did you say your ship is sailing soon for 40k? hey, bon voyage!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Jungle said:


> ... TDW display of account activity for USD handeling is a mess and very confusing


no, it's not a mess & it's not confusing to others, not to the extent that you, jungle, are personally suffering! the surprising fact is that u have expressed a high level of anxiety about these rrsp operations at the big green, right from the initial stage of considering the gambit step & onwards throughout the days & weeks that followed!

i wouldn't have expected it from the jungle we all know & like so well, but there we are. It happened. It might be that u have a tiny temporary blind spot.

in general: reading the perfect USD account that shadows the visible CAD account in tdw rrsp is like reading code, or music, or a cooking recipe, or an option trade, or a car maintenance manual, or a foreign language that one wants to learn. There are fixed relationships that can easily be learned. No need to panic.

it is a bit of work, but for me it's well worth it because of the advantages tdw offers me. Advantages i've mentioned already so i won't go over them again. But i'm not alone.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Not all brokers are made even.

Use the one that accommodates what you need to do easily, but keep in mind that it is all a trade-off. Where TDW might be perceived to be lacking, they are stronger in other areas.

No one size fits all - choose the broker that fits your requirements.

FX and USD-CAD conversions are important to me so I still with RBC DI, but I wouldn't want to trade options using this platform. I haven't used my TDW for the currency gambit/arbitrage, but there is easily enough info on this forum and CC's website that I'm confident I could do it without hiccups.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Now that I've done the gambit a couples times it is really easy. I can, however see why people complain about the TDW interface - it can be a little confusing from a day to day examination. In the holding section - things are in US dollars for book value but CAN$ for current quote. Pretty weird.

Once you get over it it's not a big deal though - if it's truly bothersome it may be evidence that you are looking at the trees a little too closely.

I got stuck in a gambit today - did my buy and had to walk away and the stock took a bit of a dive - fortunately it recovered and it ended up giving me my trades for free (plus $10!). 

Next time I'm going to make sure I dont' have to walk away half way through! Urg, babies.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

It will work out Jungle. Probably already has. Sorry, late to the commenting party


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

none said:


> ... I got stuck in a gambit today - did my buy and had to walk away and the stock took a bit of a dive - fortunately it recovered and it ended up giving me my trades for free (plus $10!)



none i swear u are on a roll. This is your 2nd lucky gambit arbitrage. Perhaps for u the magic formula is to always be a little bit distracted each:

btw in USD it's possible to quickly see how many US $$ are actually on hand by checking the number of US MMF units held (left column) & multiplying by $10. Ignore canadian dollar market value that keeps squawking in right hand column.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Hi Humble - yes, I thought of you when it all started going wrong (no offence  ).

It almost all went horibly wrong:
Purchased 630 @ $62.75 (around 2pm)
Sold 630 @ 62.25 (around 3pm)
Close: $62.60CAN /62.14 US

It could have not turned out great. Totally dumb to fiddle like that with that much cash. Oh well,small win for me


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

TD waterhouse webbroker down again today. This happened repeatedly a couple of months ago. Impossible to log in to webbroker. YOU would think that TDW would have some back up computer systems or something?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

It worked for me, must have been a temporary glitch.


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## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

Spudd said:


> It worked for me, must have been a temporary glitch.


 Down for about three hours. Webbroker is working again.


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