# Swap car wheels in parking lot



## Rexkh (Mar 15, 2015)

Hi

I think Winter is finish now. It's time to get back to summer tires. The question is, can I change my car wheels in the mall parking lot? It's seem not easy to change them on the street. My place has no garage.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

A bit of an unusual question for this forum, but what the heck.

I'll be first to venture an opinion. I do not know the particular mall in question, but, in general, malls are private property, which also, in general, would mean that the person or entity that gets to decide the matter is the mall owner or manager. So, you could make inquiries to ascertain the identity of such owner/manager and then ask permission. Or, you could work on the premise that it is easier to seek forgiveness than permission.

Some malls have very substantial parking lots, with remote corners, under some trees. I cannot see anyone much caring if you change a couple of wheels off at some unobtrusive spot. It's perhaps an example of where the "location, location location" concept comes into play. You might find yourself at odds with mall security should you set up close to a busy mall entrance with a floor jack, wheels and tools spread out over a couple of prime parking spots.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

If you don't see any cops do it.


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## Rexkh (Mar 15, 2015)

If the cop arrive, what would he do?


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Well if you had a flat tire at the mall would you change the tire there?
Of course.
So just take out one tire at a time from your trunk and change it. Pick a location that is not busy, away from other cars and traffic.
Sorry officer, just changing my tire. Will be done in a minute.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Rexkh said:


> If the cop arrive, what would he do?


SFA I would say. As I mentioned, mall property is usually private property. I say "usually" because I suppose there could be instances of government ownership. So, being private property, legislation such as the Highway traffic Act, Motor Vehicle Act - or whatever the local nomenclature might be - does not apply. In saying that, I recognize that some cases leave open the possibility that basic "rules of the road" apply in parking lots in some instances. But, I think it fair to say that if the mall owner does not mind you doing your wheel change, I do not think the cop can overrule the owner if you are not presenting a hazard to traffic.

If we stretch things, we can conjure up a scenario where the mall owner looks out his office window, many storeys up in an office tower forming part of the mall (he owns personally a very large, billion-dollar mall) and sees you in action. Rather than having one of his army of security guards approach and politely ask you to desist, he could call the cops and say your presence amounts to a trespass, in which case the cop might ask you to depart. 

On the other hand, maybe the mall owner is a magnanimous sort, and he sends out someone to assist you. In fact, not only do they assist, but they insist on taking over, while you go for lunch with the mall owner and his very hot young daughter. Over lunch, he invites you to come to work for his company, Mallco, in an executive capacity. You accept, a romance flourishes with the daughter, you marry, have kids and live happily ever after in the lap of luxury. 

So, bottom line? Don't be pusillanimous! Get to that mall!


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

twa2w said:


> Well if you had a flat tire at the mall would you change the tire there?
> Of course.
> So just take out one tire at a time from your trunk and change it. Pick a location that is not busy, away from other cars and traffic.
> Sorry officer, just changing my tire. Will be done in a minute.


A few years ago, I would have agreed with twa2w. But today, with ubiquitous video surveillance, no way. That cop with be able to show you "real time" - not that fake time crap - footage, putting the lie to your flat tire story. As well, a conga line of mall visitors will be behind the cop, all willing to show you how they captured you on cell phone video, changing 2 or 4 wheels. You must know today you are always being watched, unless you live in a remote location, my present choice.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

I have changed my tires at a mall in a remote section of the parking lot and yes, I did have security come up and inquire what I was doing and they were okay with it. As long as I didn't change oil, etc, they were fine.

There have been a few times when I had to do minor car repairs in the winter at the mall garage where 1. I needed lights and 2. Shelter to get away from the cold as I live in apartment and couldn't do repairs on the street. They were okay with it as I was in a quiet section of the garage and no oil change was being performed. They checked on me every 15min to make sure that I was okay (lone woman in a remote section) and I was fine.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

another option is maybe a church parking lot, which are only heavily used at certain times, if you see one of the churchies, politely ask if it's ok to use this spot to do this here for the moment, once that one person says they don't see any problem you essentially have a verbal permission of sorts, if they wanna be a-holes, they could send you off too I suppose.

I've done it in the library parking lot w np.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Any one with a problem would just tell you to leave.. and go to another parking lot. Just dont be suspicious and if some one talks to you be polite.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

in a younger life, without the things I now take for granted in my tools on hand, and the more sound cars I end up driving, I used to do all of my car maintenance in the nearest Canadian Tire store parking lot, somewhere near the auto service doors.

I could always go inside and buy a part or a tool I needed if something came up as the job on the car was in progress. If I really got in over my head, the car could be pushed into the service bay without having to incur a towing charge. 

I am not talking about an oil change, but burned out head light, indication light, tire change, wipers, brake shoes, drums, new battery, etc.
I once had the drums and rotors turned one side at a time because the CTC owner in the town in question would not let you put the car entirely on jack stands while working on it in the parking lot.

All cars had to be cleared by close of business, so you were wisest to start early. 
A lot if this was back when I was a student, and the idea of spending 4 hours in a lot in the spring doing work on my car, not to pimp it out, but just so it was reliable transportation, seems, well, sooo long ago now.
.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Find out how much Walmart charges to change them. I get mine changed every spring and fall and it's only $75 INCLUDING taking the tires off the rims and putting them on. If your tires are on rims it should be cheaper.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

There are places that you can bring your car to make do-it-yourself repairs. They'll rent you a lift and the tools you need; nothing takes off a stuck wheel lug like an impact wrench!

I don't see where you live, but here's a sample from Toronto area. http://forums.redflagdeals.com/finding-garage-diy-repairs-1226564/


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Find out how much Walmart charges to change them. I get mine changed every spring and fall and it's only $75 INCLUDING taking the tires off the rims and putting them on. If your tires are on rims it should be cheaper.


Canadian Tire charge just $30 to change if the replacement tires are on rims. They even put the tires that come off in plastic bags. Hardly worth doing it yourself. I have everything I need to change tires over (impact wrench, floor jack, torque wrench, etc., but lugging those wheels around is hard on the back!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'd rather do it at home and avoid the appointment, the wait, and having to put my wheels inside my car. 30 minutes at a leisurely pace and you're done.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Mukhang pera said:


> A few years ago, I would have agreed with twa2w. But today, with ubiquitous video surveillance, no way. That cop with be able to show you "real time" - not that fake time crap - footage, putting the lie to your flat tire story. As well, a conga line of mall visitors will be behind the cop, all willing to show you how they captured you on cell phone video, changing 2 or 4 wheels. You must know today you are always being watched, unless you live in a remote location, my present choice.


That is hilarious. Like a cop is going to accost you, then go into the mall, find the security office and the right person, try to get the mall to give him a copy of security video. It can take hours, even days for cops to get video in an assault or shoplifting case. A cop is not going to do this. At worst he will ask you to pack up and leave and give you a warning. 
Mall security would not even call the cops until they talk to you first. Unless you give them a hard time they will just tell you to pack up and leave.
BTW Most malls have crappy video. Almost none have video in parking lot unless they have had lots of problems. A few have cameras near the entrances.

Unless the OP is creating a disturbance or distraction in a busy area, almost no one will pay him any attention. The likelihood of someone taking a video on cell camera is remote at best. Most are too busy getting into the mall or to their cars to take a video of a guy changing a "flat tire" at the back of a mall lot.

At most, it will take the OP 30 minutes to change out his tires if he is any good. If he wants to be extra careful, he changes two then comes back later and changes the other two.

If he was changing his tire in the main entry point to the mall and blocking traffic, it would likely take mall security 20 minutes before they show up and another 20 for police. Then he might be in trouble "-) but I assume he is not that stupid.

I have seen guys change oil in a Cdn Tire parking lot among other things without any issues. I have changed tires from a flat in a parking lot in a busy mall in a busy part of the lot and no body paid any attn. other than to offer help.

Cheers
J


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

The best thing for the OP to do is that the next time he needs tires is to by all-weather tires.
they cost a little more but can be driven year round.
I found that the cost of winter tires and changeover was just crazy over the tires lifetime. 
The cost of the tires themselves plus another 50 to 70 per rim. Then 40.00 every spring and fall to change them over. plus the time and effort of changing over and the space they take in the garage. Especially with 3 vehicles. (or the cost of storage if you don't have a garage. If you change vehicles, often the tire size was different so you had to sell the old set and buy new tires and rims

The all weather tires I have are rated for 80,000K and only cost about 20% more than all seasons so a substantial savings for me. I sold my old all seasons and my winter tires and rims for more than enough to pay the difference. I live in Calgary and do a lot of winter mountain driving to ski. The all weathers are as good as most winter tires in those conditions. They run quiet and gas mileage did not suffer.
If you buy premium winter tires like Michelin X Ice you may notice slightly lower performance in an all weather.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

in Quebec, where the original poster resides, you, by law, have to install snow tires over the winter.

If you want to see then wear out quickly you are allowed to leave the winter tires on all summer though.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

twa2w said:


> That is hilarious. Like a cop is going to accost you, then go into the mall, find the security office and the right person, try to get the mall to give him a copy of security video. It can take hours, even days for cops to get video in an assault or shoplifting case. A cop is not going to do this. At worst he will ask you to pack up and leave and give you a warning.
> Mall security would not even call the cops until they talk to you first. Unless you give them a hard time they will just tell you to pack up and leave.
> BTW Most malls have crappy video. Almost none have video in parking lot unless they have had lots of problems. A few have cameras near the entrances.
> J


I cannot believe anyone would think I was being serious about the video comments. No sense of humour in these parts.

I refer back to my initial comment that a mall parking lot is private property and police have little say in what goes on there, provided they do not find someone breaking the law. Changing tires in a mall parking lot breaks no law I ever heard of. 

About the only way I can see a cop becoming involved would be a scenario where mall security approaches our tire changer. Even that is unlikely if he locates himself in the out-of-the-way portion of the lot. I can't imagine security much caring in that event. But, let's say that we are dealing with an officious type, who feels the need to confront the tire changer. Most likely, if the tire changer is polite, the guard will respond in kind and allow him to complete his task. Should said guard decide to be hard-nosed, the most he can realistically do is tell the tire changer to finish changing the wheel he is working on and then leave. Hardly a matter for the police at that stage. Even if a cop happens to be in the immediate vicinity and the guard seeks to enlist his (or her) help, all that can reasonably ensue is the cop telling our tire changer to finish what he is doing with alacrity and move on.

Then, on the other hand, perhaps there is a Criminal Code provision of which I am unaware, creating the indictable offence of changing wheels in a mall parking lot. Perhaps it's under "PART IX - Offences Against Rights of Property", or maybe it falls under "PART XI - Wilful and Forbidden Acts in Respect of Certain Property". Of course, resort might be had to "PART XIII - Attempts — Conspiracies — Accessories". After all, if the operation get interrupted, the charge can only be that of "_attempted_ changing of wheels in a mall parking lot." Perhaps, by virtue of our tire changer getting input from this forum, we'll have the ingredients to support a charge of conspiracy to change wheels in a mall parking lot, and some of us here might be charged as accessories, or we might be charged with "counselling" the commission of the offence (Criminal Code, s. 464).


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## Prospector (Jul 25, 2014)

twa2w said:


> The best thing for the OP to do is that the next time he needs tires is to by all-weather tires.
> they cost a little more but can be driven year round.
> I found that the cost of winter tires and changeover was just crazy over the tires lifetime.
> The cost of the tires themselves plus another 50 to 70 per rim. Then 40.00 every spring and fall to change them over. plus the time and effort of changing over and the space they take in the garage. Especially with 3 vehicles. (or the cost of storage if you don't have a garage. If you change vehicles, often the tire size was different so you had to sell the old set and buy new tires and rims
> ...


This argument always makes me giggle.

First because All-season tires are more correctly referred to as no-season tires. Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2wTg0l3_wI

Second because winter tire changes don't need to cost you anything. By only driving on each set of tires for half the year, you are extending their life by extra seasons equivalent to the extended cost of buying all-season tires twice. Except, that you are buying them in today's dollars, not some future cost dependant on inflation and future oil/manufacturing prices. 

A second set of rims can easily be bought from a wrecking yard - usually for about $25 each - an upfront cost of $100, but a savings over annual tire changes/balancing. You can find your rims using this website: http://www.car-part.com/ I have a steel set for winter and a chrome set for summer. I splurged and bought a set of hubcaps to fancy up the winter tires - $20 at Wal-Mart.

All the tools you need to change the tire are already in your trunk, and its good practice for the day when you actually need to change a flat - like at the cottage without cell coverage.

As others have said, an annual tire change shouldn't take you more than an hour (tops!) and it gives you a chance to check on brakes/CV joints/etc. to be sure all is in working order.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Further to my last post, now that I am warming to the topic - and with posters such as twa2w taking me oh-so-seriously - let me add that if our wheel changer should find himself charged under one of the obscure Criminal Code provisions to which I have made reference, then he will have to consider raising a Charter challenge to the legislation. It might offend s. 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms - Mobility rights. Not being able to change wheels has an impact on mobility, right? Or how about s. 7 - the right to life, liberty, and security of the person. The liberty to change wheels is pretty basic to modern survival. Or perhaps s. 12 - the right not to be subject to cruel and unusual punishment. Being punted from the mall for changing wheels is rather cruel.

Also, should our tire changer be of First Nations descent, that opens up all kinds of other defences. It could be that aboriginals have been changing wheels in mall parking lots since time immemorial, long before first contact with Europeans. It's a sacred aboriginal right, not to be infringed by federal or provincial statute.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

Instead of going to a private parking lot, maybe go to a public one, such as at a government building - preferably on a Sunday.

Or maybe a public park?


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

Prospector said:


> All the tools you need to change the tire are already in your trunk, and its good practice for the day when you actually need to change a flat - like at the cottage without cell coverage.


I did a little research on this a few months ago and the "professionals" advised you don't want to do this with your emergency jack and hand tools. Your spare tire is meant to be only a temporary solution and should be replaced ASAP with real tires with the bolts tightened to the manufacturer's specifications - which you can't do with a hand tool AFAIK.

I do agree that the "all season" tires suggestion doesn't make sense, if for no other reason you still should rotate your tires occasionally, so the work still needs to be done anyways.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Ponderling said:


> in Quebec, where the original poster resides, you, by law, have to install snow tires over the winter.
> 
> If you want to see then wear out quickly you are allowed to leave the winter tires on all summer though.


True. But All-Weather tires as suggested by twa2w are considered snow tires and do have the snowflake symbol and are acceptable in Quebec.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

Joe Black said:


> Instead of going to a private parking lot, maybe go to a public one, such as at a government building - preferably on a Sunday.
> 
> Or maybe a public park?


Agreed. In the past, I've changed tires in a school parking lot during the evening/weekends while my kids played in the playground.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

Joe Black said:


> ...... with real tires with the bolts tightened to the manufacturer's specifications - which you can't do with a hand tool AFAIK.
> ....


Even tire shops tighten them with a hand tool, a torque wrench. If yours just uses an air impact wrench, find a new shop.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

LBCfan said:


> Even tire shops tighten them with a hand tool, a torque wrench. If yours just uses an air impact wrench, find a new shop.


:friendly_wink: Absolutely! Even the tire jockeys at Canadian Tire know to use a torque wrench for final tightening. I have even seen them look up the torque in a manual because different cars require different lug bolt/nut torque. Using wrong torque can ruin your brake disks. Here is a table of proper torques.

Most modern cars require somewhere between 60 ft/lbs and 120 ft/lbs of torque to properly tighten the lug nuts/bolts. More than the required torque can damage threads and even warp the brake rotors. A garage impact wrench puts out 300 ft/lbs to 450 ft/lbs of torque with every hammer stroke.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

twa2w said:


> The best thing for the OP to do is that the next time he needs tires is to by all-weather tires.


OP is in Quebec so there are fines to pay if the cops catch them without snow tires. I believe it is $200 to $300 a pop.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ndatory-in-quebec-starting-tomorrow-1.2872781




twa2w said:


> ... I found that the cost of winter tires and changeover was just crazy over the tires lifetime.
> The cost of the tires themselves plus another 50 to 70 per rim. Then 40.00 every spring and fall to change them over. plus the time and effort of changing over and the space they take in the garage ...


YMMV ... I suspect the vehicle plays into the costs a lot. By going to the wreckers for the rims ($25 a rim), I was able to get four snows rims and everything for about $200.

For the change over, I bought an adapter for my cordless drill and use that to do the swaps.




twa2w said:


> ... I live in Calgary and do a lot of winter mountain driving to ski. The all weathers are as good as most winter tires in those conditions...


If you can control the conditions one is driving in, then it works. I drove around twelve years on all season tires when I could decide on when to drive.

I noticed a substantial difference in the stopping time when I bought cheap CT snow tires so I am surprised you seem to be saying you haven't noticed a difference.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> I cannot believe anyone would think I was being serious about the video comments. No sense of humour in these parts...


It is sometimes hard to tell without knowing the person when there are visual and sound clues. On a forum such as this, a ton of clues are missing so the possibility of misunderstanding is greatly increased.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Joe Black said:


> I did a little research on this a few months ago and the "professionals" advised you don't want to do this with your emergency jack and hand tools. Your spare tire is meant to be only a temporary solution and should be replaced ASAP with real tires with the bolts tightened to the manufacturer's specifications - which you can't do with a hand tool AFAIK.


??? ... my driver handbook for the car makes no reference to needing anything but the emergency jack and the provided emergency wrench.

As I had a flat, I did change it with these and had no problems. I have also done so in the past, though I did buy/use a tire iron instead of the wimpy emergency wrench they are including these days.

Today, I like how much easier it is to use the electric drill/impact wrench adaptor versus the hand wrenching.


Yes ... running a long time with the emergency spare is not good but the suggestion was to swap for the snow tires, not the spare.


Cheers


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> OP is in Quebec so there are fines to pay if the cops catch them without snow tires. I believe it is $200 to $300 a pop.
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ndatory-in-quebec-starting-tomorrow-1.2872781


Read Post #24 above. All Weather Tires are just fine in Quebec. But many here obviously don't know the difference between 'all weather' and 'all season' tires.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I was waiting to check if the local CT sells any with the Quebec approved symbol. 


Cheers


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> ??? ... my driver handbook for the car makes no reference to needing anything but the emergency jack and the provided emergency wrench.
> 
> As I had a flat, I did change it with these and had no problems. I have also done so in the past, though I did buy/use a tire iron instead of the wimpy emergency wrench they are including these days.
> 
> ...


Changing tires with the provided jack and tire iron is perfectly fine. The jack can be cumbersome to use, but it works fine. The tire iron is usually 12" long or 1 foot. And the torque spec on lug nuts is between 80-100 ft*lbs. That means you need to apply 80-100lbs of weight on the end of the tire iron (when it's nearly horizontal) to get the torque you need. If you know how much you weight, you can get pretty close to the torque spec. I do this all the time, and then confirm with a digital torque wrench from work. Impact guns are usually adjustable - you might know that setting 1 for example only puts out 100 ftlbs, where setting 3 can put out 400. Setting 1 to tighten up and setting 3 to remove nuts.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> I was waiting to check if the local CT sells any with the Quebec approved symbol.
> Cheers


Nothing special about the Quebec approved symbol. same as elsewhere in Canada.

"Starting December 15, 2014, the Highway Safety Code regulation specifies only tires bearing the three peak mountain/snowflake symbol will be considered acceptable winter/snow tires in Quebec."

You can buy all weather tires with that symbol at any CT (If you must buy your tires there  )

http://tires.canadiantire.ca/en/tires/all-season-tires/product/0041732P/hankook-optimo-4s/


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

As pointed out already, allweather are not the same as. All season. They have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol and have a blend of rubber compunds for winter and summer traction.
The ones I have scored very highly in testing against other snow tires.
Sorry to Mukhang, I missed the humour in your post. I didn't see any smileys so thought you might be serious. New to the board so not familiar with posters style yet. My bad.
Cheers
J


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Winter tires are not expensive. If you use all of the tread life, they are not more expensive than having 1 set, since they will last longer. If the better traction saves you from 1 accident in your lifetime, they will have more than paid for themselves over the decades in avoided deductible/insurance premium hikes. Then there is the small matter of reduced risk of personal injury/death.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Winter tires are not expensive. If you use all of the tread life, they are not more expensive than having 1 set, since they will last longer.


This will depend on how many km you drive. If you have two sets of tires, and use them just 50% of the time, they will no doubt last longer. But rubber deteriorates with time and it is normally recommended that you change tires that are more than 6 years old regardless of wear. You could push that a little perhaps, but then safety becomes an issue. Most snow tires lose their better winter performance characteristics and along with tread wear you need to change them sooner - maybe every 3 years. 

Just as a wild guess, you might get say 33% more life by having two sets, but at double the price of one set of All Weathers. Depends on where you live, but one set of all weathers in southern Ontario seems like a good choice. And then you get the small insurance rebate.


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## Prospector (Jul 25, 2014)

Interesting to see the distinction netween all season and all weather - I learned something today: https://www.kaltire.com/all-weather-vs-all-season-vs-winter-tires/

FWIW, we have all weather tires (I checked) on both vehicles as our summer tires. I still think the winter tires have better bite in cold weather, but that may be because they are newer. Dunno. I have had good luck with Continentals so all our winter tires are Contis. They cost more, but grab really well and wear nicely. The summer tires are whatever came with the cars - Kumho's on mine and Goodrich on hers. The Kumhos are awful, and slide even on dry asphalt.

I get really suspicious of "Safety Improvements" that require wholesale changeovers of equipment. Things like expiry dates on carseats (plastic is forever) and revised safety rules on playground equipment (Have you seen the dragon's Den where the seller is boasting that he lobbied to have safety rules changed in order to make his competitor's equipment obsolete?). I wonder if this new distinction between tire classes is a real thing, or just another marketing tool.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Prospector said:


> FWIW, we have all weather tires (I checked) on both vehicles as our summer tires.


I was surprised to see that even Kumho now have all weather tires. Just one type it seems. 
http://www.kumhotire.ca/en/tire/category/car/C5F1760C-6EA0-4D05-AA93-31A4FA36D74D

Haven't found any Goodrich all weathers. Do you have the snowflake symbol on both sets of summer tires?

By the way, looking at the weather forecast for Ontario for the next 4 weeks or so, this seems like as good a good time as any to discuss winter tires


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

Eclectic12 said:


> ??? ... my driver handbook for the car makes no reference to needing anything but the emergency jack and the provided emergency wrench.
> 
> As I had a flat, I did change it with these and had no problems. I have also done so in the past, though I did buy/use a tire iron instead of the wimpy emergency wrench they are including these days.
> 
> ...


What I meant was that the "tools already in your trunk" were meant only for changing your spare tire, not for swapping your regular tires.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

twa2w said:


> Sorry to Mukhang, I missed the humour in your post. I didn't see any smileys so thought you might be serious. New to the board so not familiar with posters style yet. My bad.
> Cheers
> J


No problem, twa2w. Fair comment about not recognizing different styles. Also, I have found myself unable to insert smileys. When I do, they seem to show up thus:http://canadianmoneyforum.com/images/smilies/smile.png

Perhaps it's my browser and maybe others see a smiley at the end of the next preceding paragraph where I attempted to insert one. What I see is the words describing one, i.e., a series of words ending with "images/smilies/smile.png", so I have kinda given up on trying to use 'em.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Interesting. Didnt know about the smileys.
Maybe a simple colon dash and right bracket will work
 ;-)


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

I guess the program doesnt translat that to a smiley


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

No, but at least the humble colon, dash, bracket conveys the idea


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## Prospector (Jul 25, 2014)

Joe Black said:


> What I meant was that the "tools already in your trunk" were meant only for changing your spare tire, not for swapping your regular tires.


Well - the jack in your trunk was put there specifically FOR changing tires, so I have a great deal of confidence in it for that. I would not do anything that involves crawling under the car with it though - and even when using it to change tires, I put a rock or log or something behind the rear tires to prevent unwanted movement. 

Things I have proven a spare tire jack should not be used for:
- Lifting a 7,000 lbs sailboat on a 500 lbs cradle
- lifting a far bigger, heavier vehicle than the one the jack came with
- Trying to push apart a rusted together ball joint. 
- Lifting a skid of concrete blocks
- etc.

Luckily replacement jacks are available in the wrecking yard.


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

Prospector said:


> Well - the jack in your trunk was put there specifically FOR changing tires, so I have a great deal of confidence in it for that. I would not do anything that involves crawling under the car with it though - and even when using it to change tires, I put a rock or log or something behind the rear tires to prevent unwanted movement.
> 
> Things I have proven a spare tire jack should not be used for:
> - Lifting a 7,000 lbs sailboat on a 500 lbs cradle
> ...


Based on my prior research, the reason not to use your emergency jack is because it was simply not meant for extensive use. To change 4 tires you need to move it and use it 4 times, and you will be doing this 2 times a year, so basically you will be using it 8 times a year which more than most emergency jacks are used in their lifetime.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

twa2w said:


> Interesting. Didnt know about the smileys ...


A lot of places have them ... for CMF posts, push the "Go Advanced".

The right side provides about twelve of them ... :biggrin:

The "More" link provides a popup with ... well, a lot more. :eek2:


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> No problem, twa2w. Fair comment about not recognizing different styles. Also, I have found myself unable to insert smileys ..


Are you manually inserting them instead of using the "Go Advanced" button? each:


Cheers


*PS*

It may be formatting. For example, when I manually add ":" then "biggrin" then ":" strung together as one work, the post ends up with the biggrin smiley.

Like this ... :biggrin:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Joe Black said:


> Based on my prior research, the reason not to use your emergency jack is because it was simply not meant for extensive use. To change 4 tires you need to move it and use it 4 times, and you will be doing this 2 times a year, so basically you will be using it 8 times a year which more than most emergency jacks are used in their lifetime.


??? ... the jack included with my car seems the same as the one that I used to use twice or more a year to swap my snow tires for my summer tires on my old Ford Escort. I did this twice a year, plus any flat tire swaps for around ten plus years. The only maintenance I did on the jack was to put some grease on the screw every couple of years.

I don't like the notch business on the bottom of the car as most store bought, better jacks will warp or flatten it. The iron that is used to both crank the jack up/down and remove/tighten the bolts seems far more flimsy than the one that came with the Escort.

I'd be concerned about frequent use of the iron long before I'd be worried about the jack ... unless your car has a completely different style. Mine is a run of the mill scissors jack.


Personally, I found the bumper jacks of years ago far more unstable and risky IMO. Both types seem to last just fine though. Longevity is not the problem I have run into ... a rusted screw on the jack or a mangled notch on the bottom of the car have usually been the issue. 


Cheers

*PS*

I thought the car builders went to the scissors style jack from the bumper jack as it was more reliable, had a simpler mechanism and used a lot less metal (i.e. less weight = better gas mileage).


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Eclectic12 said:


> Are you manually inserting them instead of using the "Go Advanced" button? :


I have tried both tactics and have been met with abject failure. I might just have to admit to the world that it is something I cannot do, while everyone else can. Might not be all bad. Sounds like a disability. There must be some government program to which I can turn for succour.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Yikes, it worked that time! I just blew my disability pension! Maybe I can edit it out and keep quiet about the whole debacle.

What I did differently this time was simply clicking on the smiley instead of dragging it to where I wanted it to appear. Those guys don't like being dragged, apparently, and they rail against it.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Eclectic12 said:


> ??? ... the jack included with my car seems the same as the one that I used to use twice or more a year to swap my snow tires for my summer tires on my old Ford Escort. I did this twice a year, plus any flat tire swaps for around ten plus years. The only maintenance I did on the jack was to put some grease on the screw every couple of years.


I would never trust the jack that came with the car; I'd use it only in an absolute emergency situation. At home, I use an hydraulic jack to lift the car. Then I slide a concrete block topped with a 4x4 piece of wood ( for extra height and to protect the concrete block from chipping, or scratching the frame ) under the frame of the car; then I remove the jack. If I find that the wheel is rusted on the hub, I can use force to remove it without fear of the car coming down and landing on the brake rotor. I also use this technique on both front wheels when I do an oil change. It raises the car enough for me to crawl under with absolutely no possibility of the car crushing me. Heck, on a front-wheel drive, I could even start the car and put it in gear without any issue.

BTW, when I put the wheels on, I smear a small amount of white grease inside the wheel where it contact the hub to prevent rust sticking. Some people say that they also grease the lug bolts, but I would prefer they aren't so easy to come off.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Userkare said:


> I would never trust the jack that came with the car; I'd use it only in an absolute emergency situation. At home, I use an hydraulic jack to lift the car. Then I slide a concrete block topped with a 4x4 piece of wood ( for extra height and to protect the concrete block from chipping, or scratching the frame ) under the frame of the car; then I remove the jack. If I find that the wheel is rusted on the hub, I can use force to remove it without fear of the car coming down and landing on the brake rotor. I also use this technique on both front wheels when I do an oil change. It raises the car enough for me to crawl under with absolutely no possibility of the car crushing me. Heck, on a front-wheel drive, I could even start the car and put it in gear without any issue.
> 
> BTW, when I put the wheels on, I smear a small amount of white grease inside the wheel where it contact the hub to prevent rust sticking. Some people say that they also grease the lug bolts, but I would prefer they aren't so easy to come off.


Jack stands are inexpensive and easier to use and store than concrete blocks. They also don't chip  Should always be used regardless of jack type if you are going to go under car. I would be happy enough to jack car with the car jack in an emergency, but even if just changing a wheel, rest car on a jack stand (or equivalent) as well as use wheel chocks to stop car from rolling.

If you put oil or grease on lug bolts/nuts, then that changes the torque. Those bolts/nuts should always be torqued to spec when wheels are changed. And that requires a dry clean bolt with no oil/grease. It is a good idea to lightly coat the flat mating surfaces so that wheel is easier to remove. Same when changing brake disks.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds like you need to get a modern browser.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

andrewf said:


> Sounds like you need to get a modern browser.


There are some interceding posts, but I'll take it, andrewf, that your comment is addressed to moi. And you are absolutely right! I am using an IMac machine purchased in July 2008. The longest-living computer I have ever owned. But it's been a few years since Apple has supported it. They want me to buy a new one every 2 years and are a bit discomfited by their error in making the basic hardware so durable.

This machine is at the stage where it won't let me download and put to use new browser software. I often go on websites where a message pops up telling me my browser is shamefully out of date and, to update, just click "here". But my ancient technology won't allow that to happen. In a pinch, if I cannot accomplish what I want with my old gear, I get out my much newer Mac laptop. But I really just use that when traveling. I much prefer a desktop machine for daily use.

Right now you are probably thinking "cheap bugger, 8 years and he won't spring for a new unit". It's really just inertia. The computer still works and I make few demands on it. I use it for work, but that is really just working with word files. I doubt I suck up more than a few gigs of bandwidth per month. My wife - whose computers are far newer and with more bells and whistles than my pedestrian machine - manages to use about 250gb/mo. 

Every once in awhile I go online and look at new IMacs. Then I read a review or 2 and I decide to wait because next month there is supposed to be an upgrade. You know where that leads. You can delay forever. I have also said I want to wait for Microsoft Word for Office to be updated. Mine is 2008. It was updated in 2011. Apparently the next one is just around the corner (as it has been for years). 

I will say that time is on my side. Over the years, every time I have bought a new computer, I have gotten bigger and better for much less. They are very cheap nowadays. My first laptop was a Toshiba "286" back in 1990. It cost about $2,300. It had a liquid crystal display and a 20 mb (not a typo) hard drive. Most programs are now bigger than that! To upgrade to 40 meg (wow) cost an extra $200. My first desktop - in 1989 - was the kind of thing being called an IBM clone in those days. Bought it in Vancouver for $2,400. It was something called a "386" with a 65mb hard drive and a big, heavy colour CRT display. It had 2 floppy disc drives, 3 and 5 inches (rounded figures). 

But, like I say, it's inertia to blame here. For me it's a pain to get to town, buy the gear, haul it out here, get it all organized, figure out how to transfer to the new machine what I want from this one, etc. The cost is not a factor. For me, it's even a tax write-off because I use my computer for work. I'll just buy one at London Drugs as I usually have (my wife buys at Staples). I cannot be bothered to shop around to save a few bucks. In fact, if I could pay double and just have it appear on my desk, all set to go, I'd cheerfully do that. 

I have no need to give much consideration to what I'll buy. I like Apple equipment. I am no longer a "Windows" fan. I have owned clones, Toshiba, Bell, IBM, Compaq, Epson, HP and other machines and I'll stick with Apple. But, like I say, I just want it to appear on my desk, fully operational.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> ... What I did differently this time was simply clicking on the smiley instead of dragging it to where I wanted it to appear.


It didn't occur to me to say "click on the graphic" as my Android phone has worked this way for a while.

I hardly ever remember the names so typing ":" <insert name here> ":" has only been done to test the syntax and whether it would work (fyi ... it does).

I also noticed for the first time that the "Advanced" view has a bottom, there is also a "Post Icons" section. It has about fourteen other smileys where the "No Icon" is selected.

We will see what happens when I pick one at the end of this line.


*Update:*

The bottom seems to add a smiley to the top of the message instead of the body.


Cheers


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Jack stands are inexpensive and easier to use and store than concrete blocks. They also don't chip  Should always be used regardless of jack type if you are going to go under car. I would be happy enough to jack car with the car jack in an emergency, but even if just changing a wheel, rest car on a jack stand (or equivalent) as well as use wheel chocks to stop car from rolling.
> 
> If you put oil or grease on lug bolts/nuts, then that changes the torque. Those bolts/nuts should always be torqued to spec when wheels are changed. And that requires a dry clean bolt with no oil/grease. It is a good idea to lightly coat the flat mating surfaces so that wheel is easier to remove. Same when changing brake disks.


Absolutely NEVER put any kind of lubricant on your lug nuts or studs. All makeup torques are stipulated for a clean, unlubricated surface. To get the same makeup torque reading using lubricated parts, you will have to tighten everything up much more than you're supposed to (though it will seem the same). Stretch your threads on the studs and damage them or break them off. Wire brush them if you want to clean them up, but never put any kind of lubricant/grease/oil on them.

In the oil industry, a lot of failures in the production side are due to improper makeup torque and the use of lubricant. Too many people think that lubricant must be good, and if X ft*lbs is recommended, then 1.5X must be better.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

I guess you have to be on full site for emoticons to work. No advance button on my tablet version. :-( 
There is a 'go advance' button but no emoticons. Only allows parsing, subscribing and rating.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I recall seeing the "Go Advanced" on my tablet in a less than obvious spot.

When I get a chance, I'll update this post.


Cheers


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