# social distancing now physical distancing



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Was there really a need for this change? 

I know some are ignoring it but that's not what I'm talking about ... I mean did people (the ones that cared) really not get it?


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Was there really a need for this change?
> 
> I know some are ignoring it but that's not what I'm talking about ... I mean did people (the ones that cared) really not get it?


CP24 news in Toronto just showed a live shot of people lined up like dominoes in front of the liquor store.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> CP24 news in Toronto just showed a live shot of people lined up like dominoes in front of the liquor store.


Saw that yesterday at Best Buy, limiting people in the store but outside they're in a usual line up.

So you think the name change will help with that?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

People were attending weddings on the weekend.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

You would think either term would be adequate. But that supposition is based on the belief that people are capable of a certain level of 'reading comprehension'. In fact, being able to convert 'social distancing' to what it actually means in this case which is 'physical distancing' is a 'Level 2' reading level.

"_Even Level 2 texts require readers to, among other things, “compare and contrast or reason about information from various parts of a document.”









There aren't "shocking numbers of illiterate grads" - Macleans.ca


The real story is how much more university graduates can do




www.macleans.ca




_
Given that 32% of Canadians who did not complete high school only have a 'Level 1' reading level, you can perhaps understand why some people cannot make the connection. You have to spell it out in words of 2 syllables or less to be sure you are reaching the greatest number of people.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Has anyone even considered that there are people who cannot if asked to, space two things approximately 2 metres apart. In other words, they do not have a sense of distance measurements. Then there are those who still think in feet and don't know a metre is roughly a yard. 

I know what 2 metres means and can judge by eye if I am somewhere around that distance from another person. I can do it like many others, without much if any real thought. But the ASSUMPTION that everyone can is a bad assumption to make.

I saw a picture of one liquor store in Toronto who had painted lines on the sidewalk outside the store, that were presumably 2 metres apart. So one person within each 'square' will keep the spacing reasonable. THAT anyone can understand.

You have to work with the lowest common denominator if you want to reach the maximum number of people. I always remember being told that the average TV commercial used language and a 'message' that the average 12 year old could comprehend.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I still think that the majority don't follow it because it's not a big concern to them and very little to do with the name or ability to judge distance.

On a side note, how does one keep 2 meter distance in a grocery store when most aisles are not wide enough to allow that?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I still think that the majority don't follow it because it's not a big concern to them and very little to do with the name or ability to judge distance.
> 
> On a side note, how does one keep 2 meter distance in a grocery store when most aisles are not wide enough to allow that?


I have no intention of going into a supermarket in the near future cainvest. There is no need to do so when you can get your groceries delivered. All the supermarkets have been gearing up to provide more of this service. Our local Foodland is still providing same day delivery. The nearest bigger supermarkets are at about a one week lead time to deliver an order. It isn't that hard to figure out what you will need about a week or even more in advance.

Change habits.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

One person described social distancing as thus......stay 6 feet apart which is the length of a grave. Any closer and you might have one step in the grave.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> I have no intention of going into a supermarket in the near future cainvest. There is no need to do so when you can get your groceries delivered. All the supermarkets have been gearing up to provide more of this service. Our local Foodland is still providing same day delivery. The nearest bigger supermarkets are at about a one week lead time to deliver an order. It isn't that hard to figure out what you will need about a week or even more in advance.
> 
> Change habits.


True, could have it delivered however if everyone did that the delivery system would be overwhelmed and that's not good for the people (high risk) that really need it.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> True, could have it delivered however if everyone did that the delivery system would be overwhelmed and that's not good for the people (high risk) that really need it.


Well that might be true in the short term cainvest but if everyone did it, in the longer term the supermarkets would simply turn into warehouses from which everyone online ordered. That's why all the supermarkets are now advertising for hiring more people.

Our small local Foodland has always offered delivery for seniors but are now offering it to ALL those who choose to self-isolate and they are still maintaining same day delivery. How is that possible? My guess is they have hired or switched staff to do more deliveries. 

There may be some very interesting changes in how business is done including the ordinary consumers life after this is all over. 

Change habits.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> I have no intention of going into a supermarket in the near future cainvest. There is no need to do so when you can get your groceries delivered. All the supermarkets have been gearing up to provide more of this service. Our local Foodland is still providing same day delivery. The nearest bigger supermarkets are at about a one week lead time to deliver an order. It isn't that hard to figure out what you will need about a week or even more in advance.
> 
> Change habits.


I have no options for food delivery that I’ve found yet. The best I can arrange is for pickup at the merchant.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

This continues to be a concern but the media is sensationalizing it by showing couples or families on walks or in parks. Many of these people are already living together and sharing a bed or kitchen table. The Ontario essential business list also sends mixed messages.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Well that might be true in the short term cainvest but if everyone did it, in the longer term the supermarkets would simply turn into warehouses from which everyone online ordered. That's why all the supermarkets are now advertising for hiring more people.
> 
> Our small local Foodland has always offered delivery for seniors but are now offering it to ALL those who choose to self-isolate and they are still maintaining same day delivery. How is that possible? My guess is they have hired or switched staff to do more deliveries.


The short term is my concern as stores adapt to remove the backlog, I'd rather not add to the problem for those truely in need, kind of like hoarding did for a while there. Also, I only need short term perishable items (milk,bread) which is well under our stores $50 minimum delivery order.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The problem for a lot of people, couples, families getting out for walks, isn't the park or the walk.

It is getting in and out of crowded high rise buildings, where hallways, elevators, lobby doors are shared by hundreds of other people.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

My wife just returned from Costco. They are only allowing 25 people in at a time, and people are staying away from each other. The lineups outside was spaced as well.

Most people are getting the message. I thought it might be an idea for everyone to put out a Canadian flag out front and leave it until Canada Day.

Maybe show support and be a reminder of what we need to do for safety. Hopefully the worst will be past and we can celebrate Canada Day as we want to.

Anyone who knows their MP could pass the idea along if they want.


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## GGuy (Mar 21, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> I have no intention of going into a supermarket in the near future cainvest. There is no need to do so when you can get your groceries delivered. All the supermarkets have been gearing up to provide more of this service. Our local Foodland is still providing same day delivery. The nearest bigger supermarkets are at about a one week lead time to deliver an order. It isn't that hard to figure out what you will need about a week or even more in advance.
> 
> Change habits.


There is risk to grocery delivery too. With delivery you can't be sure how many people handled your items in the previous 24 hours... "COVID-19 coronavirus can survive up to 24 hours on cardboard, and up to two to three days on plastic"

Our preference is to go to grocery store once a week in early morning (wife) or just before close in the evening (me) when there are less people. If anyone gets within 10 feet of me I walk the other direction. The new plexi shields in front of the cashiers removes a huge contact risk although they still need to handle all of your items. 

Neither method is perfect for getting groceries but I still prefer going and being extremely careful.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

GGuy said:


> The new plexi shields in front of the cashiers removes a huge contact risk although they still need to handle all of your items.


No self checkout? When we were in USA, that is what we did. Now we are in self-isolation, but have no problem getting delivery. There is the concern that everything delivered has been handled by someone. You could use gloves when unpacking from the grocery bags? Then, at least after storing groceries, wash hands thoroughly - before you accidentally touch your face or eyes.

Only way I can see overcoming this problem, is for everyone who is still in a workplace to be tested and be negative. Especially those in food supply. 

Anyone know if LCBO delivers? We are running low! Being honest, we only brought the allowed amounts of wine and beer back from USA. Might have to move to hard liquor - we only keep that for guests! Rum & Coke looks a bit like red wine


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

agent99 said:


> Anyone know if LCBO delivers? We are running low! Being honest, we only brought the allowed amounts of wine and beer back from USA. Might have to move to hard liquor - we only keep that for guests! Rum & Coke looks a bit like red wine


They have always done home delivery until the virus. The driver always had to check for age of 19, and since they don't want that happening now, Canada Post has temporarily suspended home delivery of packages requiring proof of age. 

ltr


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

like_to_retire said:


> They have always done home delivery until the virus. The driver always had to check for age of 19, and since they don't want that happening now, Canada Post has temporarily suspended home delivery of packages requiring proof of age.
> 
> ltr


Didn't know that! Canada Post delivers booze??? I hardly ever go into an LCBO store. My wife buys her wine there though and I share it once in a while! I prefer beer and it just happens our cheapest gas station also sells beer (and some LCBO products). 

LCBO site says: Foodora delivery, LCBO’s On Demand Delivery partner, is available in some communities. Visit foodora.ca to see if it’s available in your area. 
(Not available here)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> You would think either term would be adequate. But that supposition is based on the belief that people are capable of a certain level of 'reading comprehension'. In fact, being able to convert 'social distancing' to what it actually means in this case which is 'physical distancing' is a 'Level 2' reading level.
> 
> "_Even Level 2 texts require readers to, among other things, “compare and contrast or reason about information from various parts of a document.”
> 
> ...


There is a reason Trump is popular to an extent. He speaks in incredibly simple (if often incomprehensible) sentences.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Dropped into Walmart just before it's early closing, shelves are well stocked again though a few areas were a little low. Not that many people inside but everyone is acting normal. They're not maintaining the 2 meter distance (i.e. same aisle walk by) but not crowding each other. 

Interesting that the Walmart staff were not keeping 2 meter distance either but they did wipe down the self-checkouts!


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I went to a local Shoppers Drug Mart (Kingston) this morning for a bag of milk and they now have professional uniformed security walking the store. My guess is to enforce social distancing.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I haven't been in a store in about a week and a half. It sounds to me like some posters here are still making too many trips to stores. You don't go in for a bag of milk unless that bag of milk will last you 2 weeks. Shopping patterns need to be changed. I used to go into the supermarket a couple of times a week for milk, bread, etc. Not anymore.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Went into Costco tonight, never seen it so quiet. They have people getting you milk now, can't walk into the cooler section yourself and plexi at the tills with 2m tape lines for the customers.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I was checking out military meals and stumbled across some websites showing rations from days gone by from different countries.

Kind of interesting to see what soldiers from different countries were eating in war time.

Lots of videos on Youtube of people opening old rations to see what they look like. There are still rations around from 1899.









Soldiers' Rations Through History: From Live Hogs to Indestructible MREs


While ancient Roman armies largely hunted their rations during war campaigns, modern soldiers now have access to pizza that can last as long as three years.




www.history.com













Welcome to MREInfo


MREs have been under development for the past twenty years, and I've attempted to cover all changes to their contents, packaging, and appearance.



www.mreinfo.com


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> I was checking out military meals and stumbled across some websites showing rations from days gone by from different countries.
> 
> Kind of interesting to see what soldiers from different countries were eating in war time.


If you like that here's a guy that gives full reviews along with actual taste tests!
Steve1989MREInfo

His latest review was of a 1906 Emergency Ration!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There are even older ones.....but they aren't the full ration kit which isn't as interesting.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Thanks for the link.........that is so cool.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

As a long time wilderness backpacker, I am quite familiar with various types of pre-packed meals such as MREs. When you must carry all your food for an extended period of time, on your back, the major concern is weight. The answer to that these days is to remove the water from the food. That means freeze dried or dehydrated food to which you add water when you are going to eat it. One long time supplieir of these is Mountain House. 








Pouches


We trace our roots to meals we made for US Special Forces over 50 years ago. From the bottom of the ocean to the peak of Everest, we've fueled expeditions in every climate and situation. Add in our Taste Guarantee, and you can trust Mountain House to taste delicious. No matter what.




www.mountainhouse.com





But I have to say that while I lived off these kinds of meals for periods of several weeks sometimes, the best you can hope for is edible. None ever taste great. You eat them out of necessity, never out of choice.

Having said that however I have eaten some dehydrated foods that do actually reconstitute quite well and taste nearly as good as they would if fresh. Primarily fruits. I have had acquaintances who dehydrated their own items for backpacking in order to reduce the cost substantially for those items they can do this for. All you need is a food dehydrator. Here's one available in your area sags.





Food Dehydrator - Lee Valley Tools







www.leevalley.com













A Beginner's Guide to Dehydrating Food: Tips & Tricks


There are many benefits that come along with your food dehydrator. Follow our beginner's guide to dehydrating food and you'll be a pro in no time!




learn.compactappliance.com













How to Dehydrate Food for Camping & Backpacking


Whether you’re looking to preserve your food, switch up your snack game or prepare for a future backpacking trip, follow our tips for how to dehydrate food.




www.rei.com


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Okay. I promise not to go out for a bag of milk. Not sold that way in BC anyway. I'll heed the message here:


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Odd, I posted here 30 minutes ago, with a video. My post shows on the board index, but I don't see it here. Maybe I'll try another, with another lively video apropos the times.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Maybe the new board has some kind of delay built in for reasons I probably have not bothered to read. Probably no one else can see it, but I see my post from half an hour ago with the words "in a moment" inscribed beside the post number. Then the one I made a few minutes ago says "in 36 minutes". Is this so that censors can have a preliminary look?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

We can see your posts.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Thanks andrewf


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Dropped into Walmart just before it's early closing, shelves are well stocked again though a few areas were a little low. Not that many people inside but everyone is acting normal. They're not maintaining the 2 meter distance (i.e. same aisle walk by) but not crowding each other.
> 
> Interesting that the Walmart staff were not keeping 2 meter distance either but they did wipe down the self-checkouts!


An easy answer to the issue of people passing in the supermarket aisles would be to make them all 'one way' aisles. Everyone would only be able to go up or down an aisle however at the pace of the slowest shopper in that aisle. But it would allow for maintaining distancing.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

So I ventured out to Canadian Tire ... wow, what a total sh*tshow in there. Inventory all over in the aisles blocking access to products plus most people didn't give a dam about the 2m spacing. Had to back track a number of times just to keep away. Won't be doing that again.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Cainvest, how many times a week are you going into places? You've mentioned visits to Walmart, Costco and Canadian Tire here in under a week.

Dr Tam keeps telling us to stay in our homes as much as possible. It seems a lot of people have trouble understanding what 'as much as possible' means. I keep seeing a steady volume of cars going past our house (on main street) all day, every day and I wonder where they are all going?

Staying in our homes as much as 'possible' to me means people should be going into stores no more than ONCE in a week and by once, I mean one trip per week even if they need to visit more than one store for some NECESSARY reason.

If people can't get that message as part of practicing physical distancing, then I am with the Premier of PEI who yesterday day said, 'the time for education is past. The time for enforcement is now.'


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-government-briefing-1.5515056



Clearly, people aren't getting the message or are blatantly ignoring it.



https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/irresponsible-and-insensitive-tory-threatens-fines-for-crowds-defying-social-distancing-in-parks


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Cainvest, how many times a week are you going into places? You've mentioned visits to Walmart, Costco and Canadian Tire here in under a week.


Yup, just getting stuff I need and being careful about it.

There are many that are just doing regular shopping though. When I was walking into CDN tire a family of 5 were leaving with a new bicycle for one of their kids.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

cainvest said:


> Yup, just getting stuff I need and being careful about it.
> 
> There are many that are just doing regular shopping though. When I was walking into CDN tire a family of 5 were leaving with a new bicycle for one of their kids.


I'm sure they thought they needed that bike too. Everyone thinks they need this or that. That the nonessential shopping is the one other people do.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

off.by.10 said:


> I'm sure they thought they needed that bike too. Everyone thinks they need this or that. That the nonessential shopping is the one other people do.


lol, true ... guess I didn't need a functioning toilet in my house, I mean I do have a backyard and leaves out here.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

cainvest said:


> lol, true ... guess I didn't need a functioning toilet in my house, I mean I do have a backyard and leaves out here.


Count yourself lucky then. You could be in a condo on the 55th floor ;-)

More realistically, unless it suddenly started leaking all over the place, you could flush it with a bucket for a few weeks.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

off.by.10 said:


> Count yourself lucky then. You could be in a condo on the 55th floor ;-)
> 
> More realistically, unless it suddenly started leaking all over the place, you could flush it with a bucket for a few weeks.


Yes, I could have gone "old school cottage style flushing" but for the 3 mins I was in the store the risk outweighted the hassle ... for me anyways.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

off.by.10 said:


> Count yourself lucky then. You could be in a condo on the 55th floor ;-)
> 
> More realistically, unless it suddenly started leaking all over the place, you could flush it with a bucket for a few weeks.


You have hit the nail on the head off.by.10. People think they need things that are in fact not actually NECESSARY and I also think they still can't seem to grasp that even for what they do need, they only NEED to go out once a week or less. They aren't changing their habits.

No one needs to go out 3 times in one week cainvest, not even for a toilet part. What was your excuse for the other two times you were out(that we know of)? Just stay home and change your shopping habits to only going out once a week or less to do ALL your NECESSARY shopping in one trip.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Yes, I could have gone "old school cottage style flushing" but for the 3 mins I was in the store the risk outweighted the hassle ... for me anyways.


You mean the hassle to you outweighted the risk that you put others at.

It's not about the risk to YOU alone cainvest. You are increasing the risk to others at the same time. Every interaction by 2 people is increasing the risk to EVERYONE.

That 'for me anyways' comment is really selfish.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> You mean the hassle to you outweighted the risk that you put others at.
> 
> It's not about the risk to YOU alone cainvest. You are increasing the risk to others at the same time. Every interaction by 2 people is increasing the risk to EVERYONE.
> 
> That 'for me anyways' comment is really selfish.


We both calculate risks differently and I'm ok with that. 

If the government closes all these stores, I'll gladly follow along but until then I'll assess my risks allowed by the law.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> We both calculate risks differently and I'm ok with that.
> 
> If the government closes all these stores, I'll gladly follow along but until then I'll assess my risks allowed by the law.


Yes, YOUR risks cainvest, YOUR risks. Forget about anyone else's risk from you.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Yes, YOUR risks cainvest, YOUR risks. Forget about anyone else's risk from you.


I'm not forgetting about everyone else as you are assuming, my community exposure is minimal. Why do you think my exposure is high, as in, how exactly would I be transferring to others?

BTW, looks like Walmart took you idea ... single direction aisles coming into play soon.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I'm not forgetting about everyone else as you are assuming, my community exposure is minimal. Why do you think my exposure is high, as in, how exactly would I be transferring to others?
> 
> BTW, looks like Walmart took you idea ... single direction aisles coming into play soon.


OK cainvest, I will try and explain it to you. The safest presumption to make for EVERYONE'S sake is that we all have the virus and then ACT accordingly.

You go out to Walmart on Monday, walk past some people and become infected. You don't know it and on Wednesday you go to Costco and walk past some people to whom you pass it on. Is that clear enough for you?

You seem to think you will know if you are infected and will know if you are contagious and then you will stop going out. That is not how it works. Very few people are KNOWINGLY going out when they are infected and passing it on to others. We all have to PRESUME we are infected. We aren't being told to maintain a 2 metre distance JUST to protect OURSELVES, it is also to protect OTHERS.

How are you defining your 'community exposure is minimal'? It certainly isn't if you are out shopping 3 times a week. And why even talk about high or minimal, why not talk instead about as low as POSSIBLE.

The only time we can probably know we don't have it is if we have not been out of the house for 14 days. Even then, we may have had it and remained asymptomatic throughout. We might still pass it on.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

It's like walking outside the path in a busy park. Everyone thinks they're not doing significant damage. And they're right. But when you add up everyone, you get packed soil and nothing grows.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> You go out to Walmart on Monday, walk past some people and become infected.


Please, walking past someone at a safe distance doesn't make you infected, either contact or being exposed to droplets (sneeze, cough, etc) does.



Longtimeago said:


> We aren't being told to maintain a 2 metre distance JUST to protect OURSELVES, it is also to protect OTHERS.


And here is the key point in your entire post, 2m distance which I am maintaining when in stores. I also have not broken the 2m distance when meeting up with friends. 

Yes, we could all be alarmists and pretend to have the virus, then nobody would be allowed to go out to the store. Where do you think that would put us right now, ya ... in real "panic setting" trouble.

As I've mentioned before numerous times, *if you are at high risk stay home*, my actions have virtually no impact on you other than reducing delivery times ... you're welcome!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I have not been outside in 19 days ,my husband HAS to go to grocery store tomorrow but he plans to be there at 8:30 and he literally does the brisk walk maps his trip out in his head and out of the shop in 10 minutes.If it is not produce ,meat,fish ,dairy we wont be getting it at the store ,the rest is stocked up or ordering online.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You can go outside Marina.

No harm in people sitting in their private yards, or in their garage to watch the rain, or going for a ride in the car.

A little fresh air and hopefully some sunshine coming will help ease the doldrums of sitting inside all the time.

Just stay away from people and don't touch anything they might have touched.

Take care.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My travel quarantine period ended and today I went out for the first time in two weeks. This was the first time I set foot in a store in 24 days! Until now, I've only been hearing reports from others and seeing media coverage.

First impression (I went to Superstore): it really did not seem as bad as I expected. I think I went at a lucky time of day, and there was no line-up. Certain things were sold out, but there was more than enough essential foods and other things, except for cleaning products.

Superstore also did a great job with their checkouts. There were line markers for where to stand (good separation). I used the self-checkout, and an employee was spraying down each station, including screen and payment pad, between customers.

The big problem however was *customer behaviour inside the store*. People were crowding way too much. I wore a mask, partly to scare and deter other people, but many of them still came straight at me. I was shocked how close people were to one another. I spent a lot of time dodging and moving away from other people.

I can see how this bug can easily spread, when people are getting their heads this close to each other. Some people were even casually talking only 1 m apart, and apparently just "hanging out"... totally unacceptable. I really got the impression that many people do not seem to care about keeping distance.

Perhaps Loblaws/Superstore will have to reduce the number of people in the store even further.

It was a beautiful day. I also filled up my car at 69 cents. I had to double check my receipt while writing this... what a surreal price.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> We both calculate risks differently and I'm ok with that.
> 
> If the government closes all these stores, I'll gladly follow along but until then I'll assess my risks allowed by the law.


'Allowed by the law', yes, that is what I have come to expect of you cainvest and I am sad to say that.

The law allowed people to continue to go on vacation last month and we can now see that the law wasn't changed soon enough. Thus all the consequent fallout that lack of speed in changing the law has resulted in.

Now the law allows you to go out more than necessary and you use that law to self-justify your actions as many others are also doing. All of you are increasing the risk to yourself and others but that doesn't matter to any of you as long as 'the law' allows you to do so.

It is now time for the law to MANDATE your behaviour since you won't control it voluntarily.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

marina628 said:


> I have not been outside in 19 days ,my husband HAS to go to grocery store tomorrow but he plans to be there at 8:30 and he literally does the brisk walk maps his trip out in his head and out of the shop in 10 minutes.If it is not produce ,meat,fish ,dairy we wont be getting it at the store ,the rest is stocked up or ordering online.


That is wise behaviour marina628. Congratulations on being part of the solution, not part of the problem. Unfortunately, too many others do not seem to be able to act responsibly on a voluntary basis.

I really wish our TV media would focus on pushing the message to people of just what 'stay at home as much as possible' actually means.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Now the law allows you to go out more than necessary and you use that law to self-justify your actions as many others are also doing. All of you are increasing the risk to yourself and others but that doesn't matter to any of you as long as 'the law' allows you to do so.
> 
> It is now time for the law to MANDATE your behaviour since you won't control it voluntarily.


Yes, I'm following the laws laid out by the government and not the suggestions by you on how people should conduct themselves .. wow, no surprise there!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Grocery store employees fed up with people being way too social and not keeping distance with people:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/covid-19-pandemic-shoppers-grocery-stores-1.5518481

That's exactly what I saw in a Winnipeg store a couple days ago. People were extremely casual, even talking and hanging out. Unacceptable... you need to get in, grab your stuff, get out. Don't linger and talk. Speaking with other people in close proximity is a very high risk behaviour that can spread the virus.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

The problem is that government is 'asking' people to stay at home. As Rick Mercer said the other night in one of his rants, people look for loopholes.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Retired Peasant said:


> The problem is that government is 'asking' people to stay at home. As Rick Mercer said the other night in one of his rants, people look for loopholes.


Yeah, funny stuff.

Looking for loopholes.

ltr


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Retired Peasant said:


> The problem is that government is 'asking' people to stay at home. As Rick Mercer said the other night in one of his rants, people look for loopholes.


Including posters in this forum. Selfish and disgusting behaviour. But hey, they don't see it that way obviously. No, they can justify their behaviour quite easily, just ask them.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Including posters in this forum. Selfish and disgusting behaviour. But hey, they don't see it that way obviously. No, they can justify their behaviour quite easily, just ask them.


Yes it rather sad, many people are ...

"armchair quarter backing" their opinions onto others without knows the facts.
posting fearmongering links.
saying nothing else matters right now, it'll all about the virus.
posting potential treatments/drugs that will cure or stop you from gettig covid-19.

and the list goes on.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Physical distancing of 2 metres is the directive we are being given. Most people probably aren't capable of 'eyeballing' that distance. You can drive a normal full size car through 2 metres. Get a tape measure and see for yourself how much distance it really means you should be maintaining between you and any other person.

NO ONE can go to a supermarket and maintain that distance unless the number of people and the movement of those people within the store is strictly monitored. So while people must get groceries, every time they visit a supermarket, they are putting themselves and others at risk.

Better to have groceries delivered or use a pick-up service if you can or if you must visit a supermarket, make as few trips as POSSIBLE.

The fact is, those who THINK they are 'physical distancing' are probably not doing so to a distance of 2 metres at ALL TIMES. 

The BEST thing ALL Canadians can do is to STAY home as much as POSSIBLE. If someone is not doing that, they are part of the PROBLEM, not part of the SOLUTION. 

Even if someone were to strictly adhere to the 2 metre physical distancing, it is NOT a replacement for staying home as much as POSSIBLE. It isn't that you can choose to do one or the other, it is that you should be doing BOTH. First stay home as much as POSSIBLE and only if you MUST go out, try to maintain a 2 metre distance from others. I say 'try' because in reality it will probably be impossible to do in most circumstances that really are a necessity for you to go out.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> NO ONE can go to a supermarket and maintain that distance unless the number of people and the movement of those people within the store is strictly monitored. So while people must get groceries, every time they visit a supermarket, they are putting themselves and others at risk.


One can likely maintain the 2m distance but you need to be aware of people around you at all times. Of course there is no guarantee you can. More stores are limiting the number of people going in so this will help.

But remember, it's not only the 2m distance ... *everything you touch potentially has the virus on it*, just like delivery items you receive for those that go that route. There are videos and information available now on how to disinfect the things you buy *before you bring them into the house*.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Yes it rather sad, many people are ...
> 
> "armchair quarter backing" their opinions onto others without knows the facts.


YES they are!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Saw an interesting japanese documentary (narrated in english) about coronavirus showing some laboratory testing of the effects of humans interacting in enclosed spaces. Lots of fine droplets. I suspect the 2m thing is like a 90% effective measure. Maybe at 1.5m it is 80% effective. Masks are probably a good idea for preventing you from transmitting droplets. If everyone were wearing them, it would reduce the risk of being in public. I doubt being the lone one with a mask will help all that much. You should also consider eye protection (even some safety glasses or goggles) as these droplets can just as easily land in your eye. Regardless of distance, there remains some risk of being around others outside your 'bubble'. I think this was the communication fail to the public where we lead people to believe that 2m was the magic number. So you saw people doing social gatherings and sitting 2m away and thinking that is perfectly fine. It is lower risk but not zero risk. If you want to socialize, use video chat. You can see in the doc how the droplets can hang in the air, etc. so walking 2m behind someone is likely not terribly effective (better than nothing, but still a risk).

Link to doc on youtube:


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Saw an interesting japanese documentary (narrated in english) about coronavirus showing some laboratory testing of the effects of humans interacting in enclosed spaces. Lots of fine droplets.


While not totally scientific, MythBusters has done a few videos showing spread via touch and sneezing which you can find on YouTube.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

The closest anyone can get to zero risk is to stay at home as much as possible. We have been self-isolating for 3 weeks now and have never been within even X metres of anyone at any time. Nor have we at any time even 'walked through' a space someone else occupied.

We don't need to practice physical distancing, we don't need masks. The ONLY risk we incur is when groceries are delivered and we are taking appropriate steps to disinfect them and ourselves when they arrive.

The real problem with people is that they don't want to stay at home. If they did, all this other stuff like distancing and masks, would be irrelevant to what they were doing, as it is for us.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> The closest anyone can get to zero risk is to stay at home as much as possible. We have been self-isolating for 3 weeks now and have never been within even X metres of anyone at any time. Nor have we at any time even 'walked through' a space someone else occupied.
> 
> We don't need to practice physical distancing, we don't need masks. The ONLY risk we incur is when groceries are delivered and we are taking appropriate steps to disinfect them and ourselves when they arrive.
> 
> The real problem with people is that they don't want to stay at home. If they did, all this other stuff like distancing and masks, would be irrelevant to what they were doing, as it is for us.


You are correct that shutting yourself in is one of the only ways to have zero risks. You may have forgotten while on your arm chair that staying at home is a privilege. There are still people that have to work. The CERB does not apply to anyone who wants to stay at home, but those who MUST stay at home. If one reads through the applicability there are many that would like to stay at home and not go out, but the CERB doesn't apply to them.

Let's also talk about the people that cannot afford to stock up two weeks or even a weeks worth of food because they just don't have enough to make ends meet. Food scarcity is a reality for many before this pandemic started. You don't mention them because that is not your reality, I am sure you will scold them for being drain on society, but offer no solutions in these times.

Let's also talk about those people who SHOULD be using the delivery and pick up systems. These are the high risk, quarantined, immunocompromised, those with disabilities that cannot drive, those that don't have their own transportation. In my city the larger, less expensive stores are scheduling two week out if you get a time and if they don't delay it, the smaller mid price ones are about 7-10 days, and the most expensive ones boutiques (30% more) are still almost a week out. The pick up and delivery systems should be saved for those who really need them. Yet you scold people for not staying at home when they are well and able to go and get their groceries. That is selfish.

Let's also about if you are able to get into the click and collect. Many items are sold out, usually the most crucial. The prices are much more expensive if you a value shopper (I put that in another thread which you never responded). Since you have to order so far in advance with hopes that you get what you need, then you don't worry about sale items. There are some people, like myself, that shop only on sale. I always did that as my way to save money and can afford to take the increase in prices by up 25%. For some it is a necessity and these groceries price increases is huge.

I was still going out to multiple stores in a day because I couldn't find key items. I was at times shopping for multiple families, and strangers who were stuck. While at the stores, I took extreme cautions, and I do know what 2 meters is. I even told the young guys gathering very closely behind me to step back and reminded them that 'If someone could hit them with a hockey stick, they are too close' They got the point. I can't guarantee zero risk, but I can accept risk. I am currently choosing to quarantine my family for at 14 days, so I can go over to my parents house to help with somethings my father needs that I must go inside for. In the meantime, I have chosen not to shop on the first week of the month (that's when a lot of social service benefits arrive). I will support my local farmers by using the more expensive delivery for my produce. I am ordering things for others and taking things out my personal stores to help those that are stuck. 

So these are just a few of things I am doing. I ask what you are doing from your armchair to help other scolding people not to go out?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Went grocery shopping yesterday. First time in 10 weeks. Costco was doing a great job in protecting it's customers and it's staff. Then I went to Superstore. Big, noticeable difference. Superstore did not appear to be near as well set up. They only seemed to be going through the motions vis a vis safety for their customers and staff compared to Costco.. Only shortages seemed to be some varieties of fruit and veg. Shopped enough so we do not have to go again for some time.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

ian said:


> Costco was doing a great job in protecting it's customers and it's staff.


That's good to hear, will likely make a trip there next week. Were they (if they needed to) limiting the number of people going in?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

ian said:


> Went grocery shopping yesterday. First time in 10 weeks. Costco was doing a great job in protecting it's customers and it's staff. Then I went to Superstore. Big, noticeable difference. Superstore did not appear to be near as well set up. They only seemed to be going through the motions vis a vis safety for their customers and staff compared to Costco.. Only shortages seemed to be some varieties of fruit and veg. Shopped enough so we do not have to go again for some time.


Impressive. How do you make your perishables last 10 weeks? I am really trying to extend my shopping trips. I understand the non perishables and freezing.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

cainvest said:


> That's good to hear, will likely make a trip there next week. Were they (if they needed to) limiting the number of people going in?


I could be wrong but I believe you are out west. There is a facebook page for Costco that people post pictures of the line ups for some of the city's . They have been letting 10 people in at a time and set up pallets in many stores so you are force 2 meters apart. No reusable bags or boxes from home are allowed any more in our stores. You bag at your vehicle or just chuck everything in the trunk and go. I haven't been in weeks but have one planned in the next couple of weeks.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I've been doing trips for people that still need to isolate..I'm no longer using grocery pick up as they are swamped and I can leave that for use of higher risk groups. 

I don't really see anyone wearing masks or goggles but most do seem to work on distancing. 

Superstore had all the toilet paper,Kleenex etc it seems. I didn't look for hand sanitizers as we make our own.

Went thru the A&W drivethru...

 
Redeemed
 
Delicious.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Our perishables did/do not last 10 weeks. We were in Mexico for 8 weeks and then in isolation for 2 weeks. It is probably more like 11 or 12 weeks since we have shopped. We eat 'out of fridge or deep freeze of the time leading up to an extended land trip. We are switching off with our neighbour for perishables. If one of us has to go to the store for fruit or veg, the other will pick up things for both of us. Not ideal but it will reduce our visits. Noticed an increase in produce prices and a change in supply. Our grapefruit used to come US, Australia, and sometimes South Africa (our favourite). This time Costco had bags of oranges or grapefruit from Israel. 

We had scheduled a grocery delivery for earlier in the week from instacart-superstore. Screwed up, changed the delivery date etc. so we cancelled. No need.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification Ian. I have been trying to extended my outings for as long as possible, but couldn’t figure out how to go 10 weeks on perishables. I thought had some hacks I didn’t know about.

Glad your quarantine went well and that you and your neighbors switching off. All my neighbors are quite old, so I seem to be the one doing the shopping.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Plugging Along said:


> You are correct that shutting yourself in is one of the only ways to have zero risks. You may have forgotten while on your arm chair that staying at home is a privilege. There are still people that have to work. The CERB does not apply to anyone who wants to stay at home, but those who MUST stay at home. If one reads through the applicability there are many that would like to stay at home and not go out, but the CERB doesn't apply to them.
> 
> Let's also talk about the people that cannot afford to stock up two weeks or even a weeks worth of food because they just don't have enough to make ends meet. Food scarcity is a reality for many before this pandemic started. You don't mention them because that is not your reality, I am sure you will scold them for being drain on society, but offer no solutions in these times.
> 
> ...


You are ASSUMING far too much in your comments Plugging Along. If you look carefully, you will see that I have NEVER suggested that EVERYONE should self-isolate. I have suggested that EVERYONE should 'stay home as much as POSSIBLE' however. No one should be going to the grocery store 3 times in a week for example and yet some still are. No one should be going to buy a bag of grass fertilizer and yet they still are. They are who I am speaking against, not those acting responsibly and limiting their number of times to once a week or less. 

It is the understanding of that word POSSIBLE that I see people not seeming to comprehend. Who actually needs to go to a Timmy's drive-through just for a cup of coffee? If it is a delivery driver getting a lunch, fine but if it is an individual member of the public just getting a coffee? That is not a necessity, it is simply an adherence to habit. They put themselves, the server and the general public at risk when they do so. They are helping to create a chain, not break a chain. Every interaction that a person has with another person should first have to pass the question for them of, 'is this interaction NECESSARY?' I can see a Timmy's from my house and I can SEE how many vehicles are still going through every day. No one can tell me they are all necessary transactions.

Nor have I ever suggested EVERYONE can afford to buy a week or more of groceries at a time. I am aware that there are people who really do not have the money to do so. But even Food Banks I believe provide a week's worth of groceries to those who need them. That's one outing Plugging Along, not multiple trips. 

I am aware you were shopping for multiple families and I applaud that. But so what? That you were doing something as best you could does not excuse those who are not. Again, it is those who are NOT doing their part that I am against, not anyone who is 'staying home as much as POSSIBLE'. In your case you had a real reason for going out and were still staying home as much as POSSIBLE under your circumstances. 

As for what am I doing to help others, staying home is in fact what EVERYONE can do to help others for a start. I have always bought groceries to give to the Foodbanks. Our local supermarket has a box to put them in and they also have pre-packaged bags they put together that you can buy for $10 (they put a bit higher value in them than if you picked $10 worth of groceries yourself). In the past I have added a bag to my grocery shopping at least once a month. Now we are getting delivery (only 1 so far), we added a bag to our order and plan to up that to 2 bags per delivery.

Both my wife and I are in the age group that is high risk as well as both having an existing medical condition that also puts us in the high risk group. We have no choice but to self-isolate. We know we may have to continue to do so for months. 

Quite simply, if everyone stays home as much as possible FIRST, then physical distancing becomes a secondary precaution only when they MUST go out. Some seem to think they can say that by physical distancing, they can justify their going out more.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

People being people, need very little excuse to do something that they should not be doing.

They can excuse going out more than necessary by saying, 'when I go out I practice physical distancing'. They don't ask themselves and they don't answer the question of 'is it necessary for me to go out?' When March Break came along, we saw people including in this forum still deciding to go on a vacation. Their excuse was, 'there is no government travel advisory saying I can't go.' Their reason, not their excuse, was that they would lose money. They used the excuse to do something that was clearly not a good thing to do. 

Now in the USA, Trump has pressured the CDC into saying everyone should wear a mask when they go out. While in and of itself that won't hurt anything if they use a homemade mask and do not take away from proper surgical masks that should go only to front line workers of all kinds, it will provide yet another excuse for people to use. 'I am wearing a mask and so am not going to infect anyone else, so I can go out.'

It is not news that people will look for a 'loophole' to self-justify selfish and irresponsible behaviour.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We are trying to live as normal as safely possible.

My wife wears an N95 and gloves when she shops. We continually stock up because the supply chain could be threatened at any time.

I sit on the front porch and watch all kinds of activity. Canada Post, Amazon drivers, Pizza delivery, buses going by, maintenance workers, people walking.

As long as people maintain physical distancing or wearing protection, they should be fine.

Our greatest danger is her working in a retirement home. If she gets the virus and brings it home we are both going to be very sick and likely wouldn't survive.

All the social distancing in the world won't change that.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> You are ASSUMING far too much in your comments Plugging Along. If you look carefully, you will see that I have NEVER suggested that EVERYONE should self-isolate. I have suggested that EVERYONE should 'stay home as much as POSSIBLE' however. No one should be going to the grocery store 3 times in a week for example and yet some still are. No one should be going to buy a bag of grass fertilizer and yet they still are. They are who I am speaking against, not those acting responsibly and limiting their number of times to once a week or less.


Are you assuming far to much LTA ...

What is necessary to allow someone to go out? 
What do you do if a store is sold out of something?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> We are trying to live as normal as safely possible.
> 
> My wife wears an N95 and gloves when she shops. We continually stock up because the supply chain could be threatened at any time.
> 
> ...


Here we are with front line nurses crying on Youtube videos because they don't have N95 masks to wear when necessary and your wife is wearing them to go shopping. Well done sags, very helpful. 

Now let me ask you, where did she get N95 masks for PERSONAL use? From the retirement home? 

And what does 'continually stock up' mean? On masks? On groceries and if so, how often? More than is needed for 2 weeks? Are you hoarding? Are you part of that problem sags?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Are you assuming far to much LTA ...
> 
> What is necessary to allow someone to go out?
> What do you do if a store is sold out of something?


Cainvest, if you cannot determine between a necessity and something that isn't, what do you want me to tell you? 

Food is a necessity and justifies going out once a week or less. What other 'necessities' do you have in mind? There are only TWO necessities if you want to get right down to it cainvest. Food and shelter.

There are plenty of EXCUSES people can find to go out but very few necessities.

What necessary items are stores sold out of? People are reporting here that TP etc. are no longer sold out, so what is it you can't find THIS week?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Cainvest, if you cannot determine between a necessity and something that isn't, what do you want me to tell you?
> 
> Food is a necessity and justifies going out once a week or less. What other 'necessities' do you have in mind? There are only TWO necessities if you want to get right down to it cainvest. Food and shelter.
> 
> ...


I asked what is a necessity to you, as in, what do you deem a necessity? 
Going in for only milk and/or bread ok? Do I need a minimum order amount so I'm not shamed by LTA? 

Say I went to one store to get a friends presciption ... can I go to another place in the same week to grocery shop or will I be shamed by LTA for doing so?

Stores we're out of a number of items last week, not sure about now. 

But you nicely avoided the question, is it ok to get to another store because they were out of some food you needed?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I asked what is a necessity to you, as in, what do you deem a necessity?
> Going in for only milk and/or bread ok? Do I need a minimum order amount so I'm not shamed by LTA?
> 
> Say I went to one store to get a friends presciption ... can I go to another place in the same week to grocery shop or will I be shamed by LTA for doing so?
> ...


I told you what is a necessity, food and shelter. 
Going in only for milk and bread is NOT a necessity. When you shopped for a week or more, you should have bought enough to last a week or more. And yes, you do need a minimum order, a week or more of whatever you need is the minimum.

You can make as many NECESSARY trips as are necessary cainvest. However, in determining how to stay at home as much as POSSIBLE, you should be trying to limit the number of shops you visit and the number of trips you have to make, to as few as possible. What's hard to understand about that?

As for going to another store for a food item you needed, what was this NECESSARY food item. If our store is out of carrots they can substitute peas, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, etc. There is no NECESSARY fruit or vegetable unless you happen to be allergic to everything else. 

I like PC Decadent chocolate chip cookies. I can't get them from my local Foodland but I don't see that as a REASON to go to PC to get them. Instead, I ordered some oatmeal and raisin cookies from their fresh made bakery section. I like Ambrosia apples, they had none and substituted Gala apples. I'll eat Gala.

You actually have a better chance of substituting than those like us who have to order and get delivery. You can see what else is available when you are in the store and pick a substitute you can happily live with eating. We have to try and guess what substitutes we can perhaps suggest they go to or let them decide to substitute or have us do without.

What food item is it that you can't do without cainvest? Being out of Ambrosia apples is not a REASON to go to another store but it makes a fine EXCUSE for doing so. You 'nicely avoid' the question of what 'necessary' food item you need to go to another store to try and get cainvest. Please name a food item that is a necessity. I can't think of a single one.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> I sit on the front porch and watch all kinds of activity. Canada Post, Amazon drivers, Pizza delivery, buses going by, maintenance workers, people walking.
> 
> As long as people maintain physical distancing or wearing protection, they should be fine.



My house backs onto a field and it's always been a favourite dog walking spot.

I see all the people out there every day standing 6 feet apart while their dogs run back and forth between them getting as many pats and rubs from as many people as possible.

Seems like a bad idea to me?

ltr


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> My house backs onto a field and it's always been a favourite dog walking spot.
> 
> I see all the people out there every day standing 6 feet apart while their dogs run back and forth between them getting as many pats and rubs from as many people as possible.
> 
> ...


Not ideal but a very low risk if the people stay distanced. There is no evidence so far of it being spread by pets directly and I doubt there is much real risk of contact spread either.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> I told you what is a necessity, food and shelter.
> *Going in only for milk and bread is NOT a necessity*. When you shopped for a week or more, you should have bought enough to last a week or more. And yes, you do need a minimum order, a week or more of whatever you need is the minimum.


Ok, let's start here ... BTW, maybe if your replies had much less superfluous information you could answer multiple questions? Just an observation but I'll limit it to two questions, maybe a simple one line reply for each question could work for you ...

What if I only need bread and milk as my freezer is full of food that'll last me for a month (or more), can I still go to the store?

Say I went to one store to get a friends presciption ... can I go to another place in the same week to grocery shop or will I be shamed by LTA for doing so?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Ok, let's start here ... BTW, maybe if your replies had much less superfluous information you could answer multiple questions? Just an observation but I'll limit it to two questions, maybe a simple one line reply for each question could work for you ...
> 
> What if I only need bread and milk as my freezer is full of food that'll last me for a month (or more), can I still go to the store?
> 
> Say I went to one store to get a friends presciption ... can I go to another place in the same week to grocery shop or will I be shamed by LTA for doing so?


Repition of the same questions because you did not like the answer you got will not change the answers cainvest. Nor will adding an additional factor that you previously did not include do so either.

If you have a month of food in the freezer you could as easily have a month ofo bread and milk in the freezer.

If you go for a prescription, that is a necessary trip. Whether you go to another place in the same week for something else necessary or go on the same day makes no difference. Two interactions with people will occur. 

The only question would be when did you last go to the grocery store. If it was less than a week ago, then yes that was poorly planned.

And I'm waiting to hear what necessary food item you alluded to in your previous comments cainvest. Or have you decided to drop that excuse?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> If you have a month of food in the freezer you could as easily have a month ofo bread and milk in the freezer.


Since my freezer is full I can't have a months supply of milk and/or bread, guess you missed that? Understood, you want to evade simple, logical questions.



Longtimeago said:


> If you go for a prescription, that is a necessary trip. Whether you go to another place in the same week for something else necessary or go on the same day makes no difference. Two interactions with people will occur.


Ok, so this a "LTA shameable offense" because of the two interactions, Gotcha. Does this virus only respond to different store interactions (i.e. virus keeps count of how many stores you've been in per week) or maybe it's better to think about it as total exposure time with potentialy infected people?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Stopped by Co-op and Walmart today to see how their handling their shoppers ...

Co-op had a line of people outside (20 or so) all spaced out 2-3m, maybe 25 cars in the lot. Looks like they've stepped up their spacing game as well as really limiting the number of people in the store.

Walmart (1/2 km away from Co-op) had no line up outside, had at least 60 cars in the lot. Doesn't look like they are limiting shoppers going in.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Unless the walmarts in your area are considerably smaller than they are here, you'll have a hard time *not* being 2m from everyone else if there are only 60 people in one.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

off.by.10 said:


> Unless the walmarts in your area are considerably smaller than they are here, you'll have a hard time *not* being 2m from everyone else if there are only 60 people in one.


It is a small Walmart, not a "Supercentre" like the other ones.
Also 60 cars does not mean 60 people, more like 100+.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Since my freezer is full I can't have a months supply of milk and/or bread, guess you missed that? Understood, you want to evade simple, logical questions.
> 
> 
> Ok, so this a "LTA shameable offense" because of the two interactions, Gotcha. Does this virus only respond to different store interactions (i.e. virus keeps count of how many stores you've been in per week) or maybe it's better to think about it as total exposure time with potentialy infected people?


Cainvest, if you are going to persist in being ridiculous I see no point in my wasting any more time on you. You are obviously going to continue to do just what suits YOU regardless of whether you put others at risk or not.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Cainvest, if you are going to persist in being ridiculous I see no point in my wasting any more time on you. You are obviously going to continue to do just what suits YOU regardless of whether you put others at risk or not.


I agree LTA, it's a waste of time going forward from here. 
I was just trying to understand your perspective/reasoning which I now have a good idea from your responses.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Went out last week. Saw an incredible difference between Costco and Superstore. Costco was amazing. Procedures in place to protect staff and customers. It was excellent. Superstore, on the other hand, was completely different. They appear to just be going though the motions, and not all of them either. Crowding in lineups to the cash, no employees monitoring distancing. Not much of anything really. We will not be going back there.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

I too ventured out last week, to Costco in Courtenay and Superstore in Campbell River. Costco was operating as ian describes. Superstore was perhaps not quite as well tuned, but performing quite well. I used self-checkout and the stations were being wiped down after each user. The store had one person dedicated to monitoring the self-checkout and one person charged with monitoring the cashier stations, ensuring that distances were maintained. So I guess it's like real estate - location, location, location. Superstores at some locations perform better than others.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Heard today that some stores are closing. Pet stores, hardware stores, Canadian Tire, pot dispensaries.

I think it is only time before convenience stores are closed and a lot of gas stations also close for anything but self serve gas paid at the pumps.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

ian said:


> Went out last week. Saw an incredible difference between Costco and Superstore.


It seems each company is pushing down new regulations as time goes on. Co-op had none in place a while back and now they appear to have very strict procedures in place. Saw a line up outside their building again today with an employee outside monitoring distance.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> Heard today that some stores are closing. Pet stores, hardware stores, Canadian Tire, pot dispensaries.


Oh, please tell me that pot dispensaries are not closing! Sacré bleu! Que faire? O tempora!


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> Oh, please tell me that pot dispensaries are not closing! Sacré bleu! Que faire? O tempora!


Tell me how many pounds you need...buddies grew a lot but will die of old age before they smoke it all.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Eder said:


> Tell me how many pounds you need...buddies grew a lot but will die of old age before they smoke it all.


Thanks Eder, very sporting of you to offer to be my supplier, or at least middle man. Just a few pounds should hold me for awhile.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> I too ventured out last week, to Costco in Courtenay and Superstore in Campbell River. Costco was operating as ian describes. Superstore was perhaps not quite as well tuned, but performing quite well. I used self-checkout and the stations were being wiped down after each user. The store had one person dedicated to monitoring the self-checkout and one person charged with monitoring the cashier stations, ensuring that distances were maintained. So I guess it's like real estate - location, location, location. Superstores at some locations perform better than others.


I think we have to be a bit charitable with these essential services. Things are changing rapidly and I think it is admirable how well they have adapted over the past 3 weeks. This is a very difficult situation and they are trying to balance serving the public, protecting their staff and keeping their business sustainable. They may not always get it right.

I drove right past Costco on Friday when I saw a line wrapping around the building, so I can't comment on how they are handling things inside the store.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I'm not too sure that the closure of all hardware stores is wise in Ontario.

Hardware store online systems are simply horrible in my experience and not at all ready for the volume they are about to encounter. You usually need hardware right away and can't wait a couple weeks for the online system to accommodate you.

Contractors use hardware stores extensively to get the parts they need to make emergency repairs to people homes. In normal times, they evaluate the problem and then go to the local hardware store and get the parts to affect the repair. Do we expect these people to go online and wait weeks for the parts? 

When I heard yesterday they were shutting down hardware stores I went to homedepot website to see what their ordering system was like and the site shutdown several times on me, no doubt from the mass of people trying to get parts.

There's not much reason that hardware stores can't follow the same rules that food or LCBO stores follow to keep everyone safe.

Before you discount what I say, imagine your furnace or hot water heater just died and you called a contractor to fix it. Are you willing to wait weeks for the parts online?

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Construction is shut down as well. Only projects that are already started can be completed.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wife got home with supplies. No crowds where she went. I think people are running out of money and waiting for government benefits.

Once the money comes out around April 16 or so, all hell is going to break lose in the stores.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I purchased water softener salt from home depot and picked it up curb side with no issues.
canadian tire‘s website was down for most of the day today.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> Wife got home with supplies. No crowds where she went. I think people are running out of money and waiting for government benefits.
> 
> Once the money comes out around April 16 or so, all hell is going to break lose in the stores.


I have intentionally not been shopping the first week of the month & the middle of the month in order to allow those relying on those benefits to have an opportunity to get their groceries.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Different days to apply for CERB or EI depending on your month of birth. Sounds like a good idea.

Trudeau says the money will be accounts in 5 days if direct deposit and 9 days if by mail.

My son still doesn't know if he is eligible though. There are a lot of people who slip through the cracks of the program.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> Different days to apply for CERB or EI depending on your month of birth. Sounds like a good idea.
> 
> Trudeau says the money will be accounts in 5 days if direct deposit and 9 days if by mail.
> 
> My son still doesn't know if he is eligible though. There are a lot of people who slip through the cracks of the program.



True about the days, but I don’t keep track of them. I was readingg that if the beginning of the month falls on a Thursday or Friday, it’s a lot busier. I don’t know if it makes much of a difference but I have been avoiding those days I mentioned.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> Different days to apply for CERB or EI depending on your month of birth. Sounds like a good idea.
> 
> Trudeau says the money will be accounts in 5 days if direct deposit and 9 days if by mail.
> 
> My son still doesn't know if he is eligible though. There are a lot of people who slip through the cracks of the program.


Wrong thread for that comment.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> I'm not too sure that the closure of all hardware stores is wise in Ontario.
> 
> Hardware store online systems are simply horrible in my experience and not at all ready for the volume they are about to encounter. You usually need hardware right away and can't wait a couple weeks for the online system to accommodate you.
> 
> ...


Some logic seems to be missing in your comments on this like_to_retire. If a hardware store has a part in stock, a plumber calls today and picks it up today or tomorrow. If a part has to come from somewhere else like a warehouse, the plumber calls and orders it just like he did last week and it comes in the same amount of time as it always did.

You seem to be talking about a plumber was going to a hardware store and picking up a part and for some strange reason would now choose instead to order online and have to wait. I can phone my local Home Hardware this morning and if they have the part I am quite sure I would be able to pick it up this afternoon or tomorrow, curbside at the store.

I would NOT go to Home Hardware's online ordering site, I would phone or e-mail my local store. Their OWN local Facebook page makes it very clear the 3 ways to order, only ONE of which is using the online ordering site. Our local Home Hardware is even offering to deliver as well as curbside pickup.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I should add that this change has even got me thinking of placing an order with our local Home Hardware for delivery. I have avoided going to the store in order to limit my interactions for both my and everyone else's benefit. 

I have no doubt that this is hurting our local store's business of course. Right now they would normally be very busy with people buying garden supplies. It's that time of year after all. But I've not gone because I do not see picking up fertilizer, grass seed and topsoil as 'essential needs'.

Now they are offering to deliver and are actually advertising for additional staff. I suspect they will be turning existing staff into 'pickers and deliverers'. So I am thinking to phone them and ASK if they want orders for gardening supplies to be delivered to maintain sales or if they are too busy just filling orders from tradespeople, etc. and would prefer not to take orders for 'non-essential' items.

If it helps them, I want to support our local businesses through this period.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Some logic seems to be missing in your comments on this like_to_retire. If a hardware store has a part in stock, a plumber calls today and picks it up today or tomorrow. If a part has to come from somewhere else like a warehouse, the plumber calls and orders it just like he did last week and it comes in the same amount of time as it always did.
> 
> You seem to be talking about a plumber was going to a hardware store and picking up a part and for some strange reason would now choose instead to order online and have to wait. I can phone my local Home Hardware this morning and if they have the part I am quite sure I would be able to pick it up this afternoon or tomorrow, curbside at the store.
> 
> I would NOT go to Home Hardware's online ordering site, I would phone or e-mail my local store. Their OWN local Facebook page makes it very clear the 3 ways to order, only ONE of which is using the online ordering site. Our local Home Hardware is even offering to deliver as well as curbside pickup.


I think the concern is that Home Depot only has so many employees, and it takes a lot more labour to go collect parts from the floor and carry them out to the car. So the capacity is going to be much reduced. You may not be able to pickup for days if they are booked out.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

andrewf said:


> I think the concern is that Home Depot only has so many employees, and it takes a lot more labour to go collect parts from the floor and carry them out to the car. So the capacity is going to be much reduced. You may not be able to pickup for days if they are booked out.


I am not talking about Home Depot andrewf. I am talking about my local small town Home HARDWARE store. While people in cities are still having trouble getting grocery deliveries or pick-ups, our local Foodland has continued to provide same day delivery as they always have for seniors in the past. They have made it clear that they WANT people at higher risk to order for delivery. They are still in business and do still want to try and survive this period from a business perspective.

Our local Home Hardware isn't serving hundreds of tradesmen every day. They may be serving a dozen or so. I don't see them having difficulty meeting that demand with existing staff picking for curbside pickup. It would only be if hundreds of the public like myself were to start ordering too much that they would have a problem. That is why I said I intend to phone and ASK them if they want to take an order for garden supplies or whether they are too busy keeping our local tradesmen supplied.

Home Depot in a city is a whole other ballgame andrewf. I expect they will have difficulty as you suggest just keeping the hundreds of tradesmen they serve, supplied. In that case, then the public should not be trying to order 'non-essential' items for pick up or delivery.

As it happens, the owner of our local Home Hardware actually lives 2 doors away from us. I'm looking at this in OUR situation as a question of does he WANT people to support his business through this by ordering for pick-up or delivery. If he does, then I want to support him by ordering. I'm trying to look at it from HIS perspective.


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