# Offshore Investing for Canadians



## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

A British friend just told me about his investments in Fidelity Mutual Funds through their offshore service: https://www.fidelityworldwideinvestment.com/global/default.page

Only a small initial investment (several thousand pounds) is required - but it is not open to Canadian residents.

Neither is an account with TD Direct Investing International.

The rest of the world is invited to invest through these and other companies but Canadians & Americans are prohibited. (Canadians getting shafted by their own government-corporate dictatorship again?)

Does anyone know of alternatives for Canadian residents?


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

Bump.

Probably the MOST significant topic in Investing for Canadians & nobody knows anything?

Guess that says a lot.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

both canada and the unites states taxation are starting to look much more carefully at offshore investments
the paperwork and compliance probably make it not worth the time unless you are paying large sums to your accountant and your attorney
i think that jim flaherty just announced that revenue canada is going to start more intense scrutiny of overseas investments


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Flock of Loons said:


> (Canadians getting shafted by their own government-corporate dictatorship again?)


You can move elsewhere if you feel so strongly about it.

Good luck finding a country that offers (a) comparable quality of life and (b) lower taxes.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Flock of Loons said:


> Probably the MOST significant topic in Investing for Canadians & nobody knows anything?


I don't get why this is so significant to us, this is just another set of mutual funds along with the associated 1-2% MERS, but made available in a number of non-north american countries
also, with distributions being subject to various with-holding taxes for those residents

Not something I'd want to invest my hard-earned dollars in anyways.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> The rest of the world is invited to invest through these and other companies but Canadians & Americans are prohibited. (Canadians getting shafted by their own government-corporate dictatorship again?)


There is no benefit to offshoring assets for resident Canadians. Canadian residents are taxed on their worldwide income regardless of where the assets are located. And not declaring foreign income on Canadian tax returns could land one in jail.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I think there are plenty of reasons to offshore money. It's not always about tax evasion. Hiding assets from the sticky hands of a spouse or family upon divorce or death being the first that pops into my head. Protecting your business or employement assets from being sued away from you could also be a serious concern. I'm sure there's more.


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

All those reasons are to get around the laws of the land.

So why would the Canadian government allow it?


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## CashMoney101 (Mar 6, 2012)

peterk said:


> I think there are plenty of reasons to offshore money. It's not always about tax evasion. Hiding assets from the sticky hands of a spouse or family upon divorce or death being the first that pops into my head. Protecting your business or employement assets from being sued away from you could also be a serious concern. I'm sure there's more.


I don't think you're connecting all the dots here... If you're in a court case involving assets, your tax returns are gonna get subpeonad. In other words-- you won't be able to hide them unless you are evading taxes on them already.


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## heffer (Feb 21, 2010)

I think they should make the tax system a little simpler in both Canada and the US. People have been talking about tax reforms but it hasn't gotten the moment it needs yet.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

All the boutique tax credits for transit fares, after school sports, etc. could go. They have very little going for them from a policy perspective. The bones of the tax system is pretty good though... I'm not convinced that it needs to be a lot simpler, as a lot of the complexity has good rationale justifying it.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

I doubt the restriction on Canadian and US investors is a government thing. There is no prohibition on owing foreign securities or investments or on having your money 'offshore'. There may be reporting or registration requirements that Fidelity does not want to adhere to for this particular fund, but I suspect they have 'sister' funds for their US and Cdn clients that mirror this one. It's not like them to decline your money.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

heffer said:


> I think they should make the tax system a little simpler in both Canada and the US. People have been talking about tax reforms but it hasn't gotten the moment it needs yet.


The U.S. tax system is dead simple:


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Any reason why you couldn't open an account here?

Your International Offshore Broker in Luxembourg
http://int.tddirectinvesting.com/


Cancel the above. Just read that they can not accept US / Canadian.


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

liquidfinance said:


> Your International Offshore Broker in Luxembourg http://int.tddirectinvesting.com/ Cancel the above. Just read that they can not accept US / Canadian.


Actually, they can accept US / Canadian but only expats, you need a residence in Europe. Other option is to work through IB, minimum amount $10k, then you can trade thru them on a number of European and Asian exchanges. One limitation: what you buy on one exchange you have to sell on the same exchange. You can't buy on one exchange and sell on another.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> A British friend just told me about his investments in Fidelity Mutual Funds through their offshore service: https://www.fidelityworldwideinvestment.com/global/default.page
> 
> ... The rest of the world is invited to invest through these and other companies but Canadians & Americans are prohibited. ... Does anyone know of alternatives for Canadian residents?



Please explain, in 25 words or less, why you think investing offshore would earn you better returns, other than through tax evasion.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

PuckiTwo said:


> Actually, they can accept US / Canadian but only expats, you need a residence in Europe. Other option is to work through IB, minimum amount $10k, then you can trade thru them on a number of European and Asian exchanges. One limitation: what you buy on one exchange you have to sell on the same exchange. You can't buy on one exchange and sell on another.


tddirectinvesting.co.uk do also offer an overseas resident trading contact. Not sure on the merit of actually using that account but I guess it's useful if you have GBP and want to trade in GBP. Not sure if they would allow that to be opened by a Canadian resident but then the UK isn't exactly an off shore haven.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I have a friend who moved to Cayman Islands with 2% income tax ,he moved there then shifted all his business accounts there.First 4 years all I hear was how much taxes he saved by moving from Canada but last year he was telling me how lonely life is on the Island and how he has to leave during hurricane season and how expensive things are.If he wants new furniture he has to go to Miami and buy his stuff and ship it on a container.Life is not as rosy as people make it seem .


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> There is no benefit to offshoring assets for resident Canadians. Canadian residents are taxed on their worldwide income regardless of where the assets are located. And not declaring foreign income on Canadian tax returns could land one in jail.


Suppose you should explain this to Canadians that use offshore banks. Particularly as you are suggesting they are criminals.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Please explain, in 25 words or less, why you think investing offshore would earn you better returns, other than through tax evasion.


In 25 words - or fewer - please explain why I would.


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

Flock of Loons said:


> Suppose you should explain this to Canadians that use offshore banks. Particularly as you are suggesting they are criminals.


He's suggesting that not declaring income is illegal. Nothing new here.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

SpIcEz said:


> He's suggesting that not declaring income is illegal. Nothing new here.


Good God must every half-wit post the first thought that bubbles up to their head?

CC's implying that, as _"There is no benefit to offshoring assets for resident Canadians."_, those doing so are doing it for criminal reasons.


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

Flock of Loons said:


> Good God must every half-wit post the first thought that bubbles up to their head?
> 
> CC's implying that, as _"There is no benefit to offshoring assets for resident Canadians."_, those doing so are doing it for criminal reasons.


I think you are dense, a troll, and or both.

He's implying the main reason for offshoring assets for resident Canadians would be illegal (i.e. not declaring income). Nothing wrong with his statement. 

There are very few reasons to offshore assets for a resident Canadian other than for that purpose.

Now, you where asked to explain, why you would like to offshore your assets, but choose to refuse and be an *** about it. If you have a legitimate reason, come out with it or keep your insulting comments to yourself, STFU as its obvious we will not be enabling your schemes, if indeed (as I suspect) you do not have a legitimate reason.

If you do, explain it, maybe someone here CAN help, but if you keep up with that attitude, I dont see why anyone would.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

The only reason I can see to offshore invest would be if other countries are offering higher interest rates than Canada, which could allow for higher risk-free returns. Example, Indian banks are offering interest rates close to 10%.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spudd said:


> The only reason I can see to offshore invest would be if other countries are offering higher interest rates than Canada, which could allow for higher risk-free returns. Example, Indian banks are offering interest rates close to 10%.


a problem here can often be that the foreign currency will, sooner or later, devalue. This was the case with iceland. Seven years ago global investors were running to icelandic banks & buying iceland bonds. Interests rates were 15-20%.

then iceland went bankrupt & many banks disappeared. Those investors lost all.

believe i've read that similar stories happen with mexican pesos from time to time.

if rupees are paying 10% a non-knowledgeable crumb like myself can only wonder what will happen, but would never dare to go near.

if indian banks are paying 10% on USD then i would fear such a bank will soon fall upon troubled times. Is, in fact, already in troubled times but the cesspool has not yet been exposed ...


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> Suppose you should explain this to Canadians that use offshore banks. Particularly as you are suggesting they are criminals.


Please do not twist what I said. Having offshore assets is not illegal. But *if* income from offshore assets are not declared it is illegal. In fact, not declaring offshore income-producing *assets* valued at more than $100K is breaking the law.

If you are saying that there are benefits to going offshore, may be you should state those benefits.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> a problem here can often be that the foreign currency will, sooner or later, devalue. This was the case with iceland. Seven years ago global investors were running to icelandic banks & buying iceland bonds. Interests rates were 15-20%.


Very good point, that I hadn't thought about. Of course currency valuation adds a degree of risk to the "risk-free" proposition. A large one, perhaps. Not that I planned to invest in Indian bank accounts anyways! 

I guess one other reason to invest off-shore would be access to stocks that aren't available to us in the North American market. As an example, when I first got interested in stocks, I thought Samsung would be great to buy, but soon discovered it isn't available here. 

Still, I think the scenarios are few and the reasons are not overly compelling.


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

It concerns me that some posters may equate investments in foreign countries with tax evasion/criminal intent. 

As CC mentioned foreign investments are part of your “world income” and will have to reported as such (it would be foolish not to do so) - keeping in mind that Canada has double tax treaties with some countries

*Return may not be better but diversification is taken to another level beyond the North American continent* which may be useful at some point. The US/Canada econcomy is hardly on such stable grounds that it can be relied upon indefinitely.

Marc Faber, Swiss investment profi and cautious about accounts and deposits in USA actually suggests distributing your wealth abroad and spreading it over different countries, for example in real estate and other investments. Hongkong, Singapur, Canada, New Zealand, Australia being the safe havens.

The EU seems to be relaxing its tough stance on austerity which hopefully will encourage growth. Stocks are presently still cheap, so is currency, and some real estate valuations - nothing wrong with global diversification, only need to know the laws.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Spudd said:


> The only reason I can see to offshore invest would be if other countries are offering higher interest rates than Canada, which could allow for higher risk-free returns. Example, Indian banks are offering interest rates close to 10%.


I'm somewhat familiar with Indian banks. Yes, they do pay 7 to 8 percent in *rupees*. But, that's lower than inflation in rupee terms. 

In C$ terms, rupee deposits are terrible investments. First, 7 to 8 percent translates to 4 to 5 percent after taxes in rupee terms. Add currency devaluation (in the past year, the C$ has gone from 49 rupees to 53, a loss in currency of 8 percent) and you are earning much less than what you could earn on C$ deposits in Canada.

And then there is the elephant in the room, which is credit risk. Canadian dollar deposits are CDIC insured with implicit backing by the Canadian Government, a AAA-rated entity. I don't know if deposits with Indian Banks are Government guaranteed but even if they are, Indian Government bonds are barely investment grade. In fact, chances are very good that they'll be downgraded to junk status.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

PuckiTwo said:


> *Return may not be better but diversification is taken to another level beyond the North American continent* which may be useful at some point. The US/Canada econcomy is hardly on such stable grounds that it can be relied upon indefinitely.
> 
> The EU seems to be relaxing its tough stance on austerity which hopefully will encourage growth. Stocks are presently still cheap, so is currency, and some real estate valuations - nothing wrong with global diversification, only need to know the laws.


I agree strongly with global diversification. I disagree that one has to go offshore (as in open an account with a financial institution in a foreign country) to achieve it. A Canadian resident can buy foreign stocks, bonds, REITs through ADRs and ETFs that hold foreign assets with just a Canadian brokerage account. And with a brokerage like TD, Canadians can even access many foreign stock markets directly.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> believe i've read that similar stories happen with mexican pesos from time to time...


Yes and the local banks were offering 21% interest on pesos accounts. That was the premium for the peso risk. After the devaluation in the early 90s. Mexicans refused to keep money in banks and invested in real property instead. That fueled the property bubble which burst in 2007. 

Now the only speculative place with the potential for real returns is in condo preconstruction. Of course it is also an opportunity to lose 100%!


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> I agree strongly with global diversification. I disagree that one has to go offshore (as in open an account with a financial institution in a foreign country) to achieve it. A Canadian resident can buy foreign stocks, bonds, REITs through ADRs and ETFs that hold foreign assets with just a Canadian brokerage account. And with a brokerage like TD, Canadians can even access many foreign stock markets directly.


This is true but can depend also on the individual circumstances. There are many stocks I wish to trade in the UK. Now I could open a TD account here which would allow access to the LSE. I could pay the exchange fees or I could and have left GBP in the UK and trade with the UK broker. This works out a much more efficient way of trading. 

Now this is a clear legitimate way of diversifying my assets. Although with the depreciation of sterling against the $ it's not a very good one. Although I'm in a transitional phase and moved over here in June. At the moment I still have the UK property so also need to keep the sterling over there should something arise that needs my attention. 

For my wealth there probably isn't any need to have UK and CAD accounts as I could achieve everything through a couple of ETF's. But I like to look at smaller companies and take the chance. 

I can see the need to want to do this if you have substantial wealth for diversification as you can also spread your risk across countries. An important part could also be where you intend to retire. If I intend to stay here then it makes little sense to continue to hold sterling. If my wife and I decide to move to the UK in a few years then it makes sense to hold assets there. 

It seems to me that generally offshore = evasion. 

Even the TD International website gives this as a clue 



> What is the effect of the withholding tax on banking secrecy?
> Since TD Direct Investing International forwards the total amount collected from all its clients to the Luxembourg Tax Office, with no indication of the identity of any individual beneficiary, banking secrecy is left fully intact.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> There is no benefit to offshoring assets for resident Canadians.


Given some very good discussion here, and the fact that many Canadians use offshore accounts, not all of them presumably for criminal purposes, would you like to retract your pronouncement?


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> Given some very good discussion here, and the fact that many Canadians use offshore accounts not presumably for criminal purposes, would you like to retract your pronouncement?


A former UK resident holding an UK account and other assets in the UK that were primarily earned in the UK is not what I understand by offshoring. If I, who have no ties to say, Switzerland, open up a Swiss bank account and trading account and fund it by moving assets out of Canada, it is offshoring. I've already said that offshoring by itself is not criminal but hiding income received abroad is. Why do you insist on misrepresenting what I said?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Flock of Loons said:


> Given some very good discussion here...


Aside from liquidfinance (a Brit who retains strong ties to the UK), no one stated a single good reason to invest offshore.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh, by the way, here's a snippet from today's Ottawa Citizen:



> Heading into the March 21 federal budget, observers are watching to see if the Conservative government announces new funding or initiatives to rein in tax scofflaws.
> The Canada Revenue Agency has identified approximately $4.6 billion in unpaid taxes since 2006 from international tax avoidance. The CRA won’t say how much of that has been recovered.
> Moreover, tens of billions of dollars in other unpaid taxes may be flying under the government’s radar.
> “People that don’t pay their fair share of the taxes means the rest of us have to pay more,” says Liberal Sen. Percy Downe, who has been leading the fight in Parliament on tax evasion. “It’s a tremendous revenue loss to the country.” He wants the government to boost the CRA’s funding for fighting tax evasion.




Read more: http://www.canada.com/Taxing+patien...+down+cheats/8100347/story.html#ixzz2Nd92xW5H


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

*CC: *not only Canada wants to rein in taxes lost thru tax evasion. The US and several European countries are doing the same, so far that even double tax treaties are being adjusted to accommodate national interests. International tax laws become increasingly difficult and have to be considered BEFORE investing in other countries. 

*Liquidfinance:* TDW charges 2+% forex trading globally (only if you convert from CAD or USD to GBP or other currencies). Interactive Brokers is much cheaper, you pay only a few pips in forex

*Goldstone:* "no one stated a single good reason to invest offshore"....
Well, I do. To me it's diversification. My portfolio isn't large but as a European moved to Canada I see a lot of benefit to have interests in Europe where I know the system. The crucial factor is that you have to know what you are doing. For example, I wouldn't invest in Asia as I don't know the system there. And......ALL of my holdings/income/losses are reported properly where they are supposed to be reported. P.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

PuckiTwo said:


> *Goldstone:* "no one stated a single good reason to invest offshore"....
> Well, I do. To me it's diversification. My portfolio isn't large but as a European moved to Canada I see a lot of benefit to have interests in Europe where I know the system.


That's essentially the same reason that Liquidfinance gave above. He is a Brit with ties to the UK. You are a European with ties to Europe.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

There is a reason, but I don't see a reason that is substantiated in providing the investor with superior returns.

What's wrong with a Country-specific index tracking ETF? I would also hazard that home-country bias weighs strongly here and people may feel they know the companies from their own countries better, but this might not provide any investing advantage.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Why do you insist on misrepresenting what I said?


Hmmmm. Twice I've included your actual quoted statements. Sorry you consider this to be misrepresentation.

There *are* advantages to offshore banking for resident Canadians.

As there are advantages for the British friend I mentioned in the OP.

But that is not the issue.

I've not asked to be told what these advantages are, but the ensuing discussion has been illuminating.

My OP asked for alternatives to companies such as Fidelity International who will not open accounts for Canadian residents. (though, notably, they will serve persons residing in many, most, or all, other countries.)


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Flock of Loons said:


> My OP asked for alternatives to companies such as Fidelity International who will not open accounts for Canadian residents.


http://www.fidelity.ca/


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

there may well be advantages to holding offshore banking accounts 

but those advantages will increasingly need to be measured against what is a growing movement toward cross border data exchanges and increased financial regulation and scrutiny by governments all over the world who have an interest in squeezing every last tax dollar they can from their populations ...

you have to ask yourself whether it will be worth the time and money to hold your assets offshore

more and more i think it will not be worth it unless you are very wealthy

the usa now requires all citizens and even green card holders to report in detail, all of their overseas assets on pain of serious penalties

they are starting a trend that will continue to grow worldwide


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> Probably the MOST significant topic in Investing for Canadians & nobody knows anything?


Please inform us, why is this the MOST significant topic for Canadians?

And what are the advantages? None are listed and I don't know of any.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

My friends and I who reside in Mexico half the year are considering investing directly in the Mexican Bolsa stocks, not the index. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to proceed? I am with TDW in Canada. I own a condo here but do not rent it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kcowan said:


> My friends and I who reside in Mexico half the year are considering investing directly in the Mexican Bolsa stocks, not the index. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to proceed



this does sound interesting & adventurous!

i don't have specific info but 2 basic approaches come to mine: the less adventurous & the more adventurous.

less adventurous:

- trading via the global trading services of Interactive Brokers (they might route you to IB Canada since your other principal residential address is in canada.)

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/?f=exchangesEdu&p=mexico

- trading via tdw global trading, which you're already familiar with.

more adventurous:

i don't believe that canada directly restricts expats or partial expats in any way from investing directly on foreign exchanges if they choose. An indirect restriction on foreign nationals might be imposed by a foreign country if an agreement or convention had been concluded between canada & such country.

if mexican restrictions on local canadian or other foreign investors exist, the mexican broker members of the Bolsa would know about these. Issues might include how mexico views your intermittent residence there; are you taxed by mexico; if so, are you taxed the same way as a mexican national or are you taxed as a foreign national; how would income from your Bolsa investments be taxed by mexico.

assuming you get through all such Qs & everything clocks out, surely it would next be a question of putting your ear to the ground & finding the names of mexican brokers that might be appropriate? i am wondering if trade or consular officers at cdn embassy or consulates might be of help ...


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

OP:

May I interest you in Cyprus offshore investing? 4% corporate tax rate. Warm and sunny. All fully insured, of course.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

mrPPincer said:


> http://www.fidelity.ca/


Which doesn't do offshore. Keep trying.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> OP:
> 
> May I interest you in Cyprus offshore investing? 4% corporate tax rate. Warm and sunny. All fully insured, of course.


No, only deposits to 100,000 euros are insured.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Why are you so keen to do off-shore investing anyways? I don't personally see a big advantage to it, that would make it worth jumping through a bunch of hoops to do.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Flock of Loons said:


> No, only deposits to 100,000 euros are insured.


GoldStone was being sarcastic, LOL.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

Toronto.gal said:


> GoldStone was being sarcastic, LOL.


No kidding. You really laughed out loud? See someone.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

What "hoops". As I said in my OP, no big deal for much of the world to do it.

Advantages? Each person's situation is distinct.

Canadian Capitalist is adamant: "there is no advantage". So you could listen to him ... 

For some people there are advantages. And they are neither illegal nor immoral nor fattening.





Spudd said:


> Why are you so keen to do off-shore investing anyways? I don't personally see a big advantage to it, that would make it worth jumping through a bunch of hoops to do.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Flock of Loons said:


> What "hoops". As I said in my OP, no big deal for much of the world to do it.
> 
> Advantages? Each person's situation is distinct.
> 
> ...


Please, could you list some of the advantages or share who or how you could benefit? I really don't know anything about offshore investing.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> For some people there are advantages. And they are neither illegal nor immoral nor fattening.


Please again, what are these? I am here to listen and learn.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> You can move elsewhere if you feel so strongly about it.
> 
> Good luck finding a country that offers (a) comparable quality of life and (b) lower taxes.


Angry, ignorant, and defensive. That's quite a combo you have going for you, GoldStone.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Flock of Loons said:


> Angry, ignorant, and defensive. That's quite a combo you have going for you, GoldStone.


You may want to try posting the alleged legal, moral and non-fattening advantages of offshore funds instead of indulging in ad hominem attacks.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

Flock....there may or may not be advantages to investing outside of Canada (i think there are) but it should be your prerogative to make that choice. However, your fury at this Fidelity product is misplaced. If you look at the offering for their offshore investors it is just a selection of high MER foreign funds. Those (or versions of them) are available through Fidelity.ca. Or through other mutual fund companies.

The Canadian and US restrictions on these account are often tax reporting on money laundering reporting based (with all the cumbersome disclosure and reporting requirements of various countries the investment companies make products per geographic region -- but will offer the same product in a different form most places -- they don't like to decline your money). There's an investment I'm involved with that was only avail to US and Canadian investors. But they had a sister product available for foreign investors that was exactly the same -- but a different 'series.'

You can dig down from the site you originally posted to see the products available. If there's one you like -- contact fidelity.ca (or your local mutual fund salesman) and have a talk. Compare the product and the MERs and then let us know how it goes.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I wonder if the OP could please post some of the advantages of offshore investing, legal or otherwise, preferably with data or studies that support these views. I would be interested in using this style of investing if it is indeed advantageous and the MOST important information for Canadian investors.


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## Flock of Loons (Jan 3, 2013)

Alright.

Thanks, Charlie. There certainly are advantages to offshore. The British friend I mentioned in the OP told me those he takes advantage of. And they're not illegal. But they are not useful for everyone. People have distinct situations.

Canadian Capitalist: You have said explicitly that there is no advantage to offshore, and when invited, refused to withdraw the comment. Your mind is made up. Why would I discuss things further? My supposed ad hominem attacks here are merely in response to the small-minded carping that pollutes this forum. Frankly, these little **** are well-served by efforts to educate them on their own level of ignorance.

For those who are truly interested in offshore, I am not the best source of information. There are books, there's the Web. Or try to find a sophisticated British investor-friend to help you.


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

Trolls will be trolls.

Someone kick this idiot out of here. He's a waste of 1s and 0s.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Flock of Loons said:


> See someone.


Take your own advise as it's evident that you need the help more urgently than anyone on this thread, Loon.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I will tell you all what if any advantage when I move to Antigua


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Please explain, in 25 words or less, why you think investing offshore would earn you better returns, other than through tax evasion.





Flock of Loons said:


> In 25 words - or fewer - please explain why I would.


Because it would be unethical for us to advise someone on how to invest in a bad investment.


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## TomF (Jul 26, 2011)

Hmmnn... just discovered this thread, a little late. But it is an interesting topic and one of the reasons I joined these forums.

"Flock of Loons", I don't think you will find the information you are seeking here. The topic doesn't come up often in these forums and, when it does, the predominant opinion seems to be against the very idea of offshore investing, without ever even getting into the details. Discussions usually break down without an honest debate having taken place, and no useful information is exchanged. 

In any case, you are right in trying to diversify your holdings. It is a prudent policy _not_ to keep all your eggs in one basket.

The investment options are much greater. I do not know why Canadian brokers are limited in their access but, if you open an account with an offshore bank or brokerage, a whole new world of investment opportunity opens up to you. In fact, just going to the US or the UK and looking at their offerings can be a real eye-opener. Hopefully, one day Canadians can have access to some of these investments too without having to go through the trouble of opening an offshore account. I don't know why the Canadian government has decided Canadians can only have access to such-and-such investments but not others. Maybe if Canadians asked their MPs to change these laws, they would, but I don't even think it is on their "To-do" list right now. So, like many other things, certain investments and products only come to Canada after they have been released first somewhere else--if at all. (Remember those advertisements, "Now available in Canada"?)

And the returns can be higher. Because you have quicker access to an investment, you can be one of the early investors and get in on the ground floor before the value increases drastically.

And it is is legal. The government of Canada rightly allows offshore bank accounts and investments to be legal.

My suggestion:
If you travel internationally, make a point of exploring some of the banking options in the countries you visit.
Or, you can request information by mail or over the Internet.
Some countries require large deposits from foreign account holders, others have lower requirements. For example, a Swiss bank requires about a one million dollar deposit before they even consider opening an account for a foreigner. Austrian banks have a lower requirement, maybe $200,000. I don't know about Liechtenstein, Denmark, and Holland. Panama is also popular, as are some countries in the Caribbean and the South Pacific (e.g. - The Cook Islands).

Without knowing your exact situation or requirements, I don't know what else to add. You may want to visit the website of Alex Doulis. He is a well-known author of books on the topic of Offshore Investing for Canadians. A web search would turn up a lot more information. Or maybe browse your local library.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hey dude is saying here that $3000 hidden away in the Cook islands is going to give canadian taxpayer investors "quicker access" to "investment opportunities" whose "returns can be higher."

dude tell us more how we is wastin our time with these silly T3s & T5s every april ...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

TomF said:


> Hmmnn... just discovered this thread, a little late. But it is an interesting topic and one of the reasons I joined these forums.
> 
> "Flock of Loons", I don't think you will find the information you are seeking here. The topic doesn't come up often in these forums and, when it does, the predominant opinion seems to be against the very idea of offshore investing, without ever even getting into the details. Discussions usually break down without an honest debate having taken place, and no useful information is exchanged.
> 
> In any case, you are right in trying to diversify your holdings. It is a prudent policy _not_ to keep all your eggs in one basket...


Question is - what does offshore investing give one in a legal way that buying something like ScotiaBank (lots of Latin American exposure), Africa Oil, ETFs or ADRs won't?

I agree there's been a lack of information but it seems like it's from all sides as opposed to re-directing the thread back to useful information. At the end of the day "it is" and "it isn't" comments don't tell me much.




TomF said:


> The investment options are much greater. I do not know why Canadian brokers are limited in their access but, if you open an account with an offshore bank or brokerage, a whole new world of investment opportunity opens up to you. In fact, just going to the US or the UK and looking at their offerings can be a real eye-opener.


Out of curiosity ... can you give me an example?




TomF said:


> And the returns can be higher. Because you have quicker access to an investment, you can be one of the early investors and get in on the ground floor before the value increases drastically.


Interesting ... the American I was chatting with was lamenting that due to the lack of US newspaper coverage of Agrium, he missed out on a lot of gains that he assumed most Canadians were cashing in on.




TomF said:


> And it is is legal. The government of Canada rightly allows offshore bank accounts and investments to be legal.


Of the posts I read - the comments on legality were that offshore investing is legal while failing to declare foreign income is illegal. 

The vague claims of higher returns in spite of any foreign with holding taxes as well as the foreign income taxes levied by Canada, some have concluded the high rate of return is a result of failing to declare foreign income.


In any case - even the cheap $200K minimum balance puts any of this out of my reach. 


Cheers


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