# PG vs KMB vs JNJ



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

PG vs KMB vs JNJ - in your opinion which one the best stock for long term?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I own pg and jnj,i think your probably pretty safe with these 2 companys,ive heard alot of professional writing jnj is attractive right now and they have a soild yield.

With all the growth thats going to be coming(population)i think its fair to say both companies should do well.

There up there for 2 of the most iconic businesses of the 19th century?id think.(simple products)

Thou i know pg is priced higher(products) than there competitors so they may not be the greatest in a long-term recession...When our dollar was really high in the early summer i bought both.There a prudent play imo and a soild good choice in a portfolio...Id give the edge to jnj out of the 3 i like abt also in health.(jnj,has preformed good in this chaos,up a touch)My amateur view.


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## rassmy (May 7, 2010)

I would pick unilever (un.b) insted of PG, for much more globalization and more consumer products from foods to cosmatics.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

rassmy said:


> I would pick unilever (un.b) insted of PG, for much more globalization and more consumer products from foods to cosmatics.


I know it's an old one, but I was thinking of this.
I'm leaning UL, but JNJ has its appeal

Any thoughts to throw in?


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## saad1253 (Sep 11, 2011)

I second this, I am interested in PG and JNJ. PG is down YTD (even though not by a lot) and JNJ (is up around 15%). Any suggestions for entry prices for both for a long term RSP portfolio to initiate a position.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i have JNJ and UL 
JNJ and PG both have 50 consecutive years of dividend increases, this is now built into their brand and barring a catastrophe is unlikely to change
i am trying to decide if i want to add PG since i have UL
PG has very good international exposure just like UL

View attachment 1049


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Maybe I'm wrong , but I prefer PG over UL.... just we use in home much more PG products than UL's


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

gibor said:


> Maybe I'm wrong , but I prefer PG over UL.... just we use in home much more PG products than UL's


in north america PG has much more well known brands than UL though UL has some very well known canadian brands like hellmans, becel and ben and jerry's ...


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

fatcat said:


> in north america PG has much more well known brands than UL though UL has some very well known canadian brands like hellmans, becel and ben and jerry's ...


And stock, ie Bovril, OXO, Knorr.

They're all really strong companies with great brands and premium products that continue to hold on to their premium pricing.
That's why it's hard for me to decide what to buy!


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## pastorash (Feb 3, 2014)

Just bought PG @ 79.85 for a long term hold, primarily for long term dividend stability and growth. Happy to have it as my first core stock for long term holding, and my "big" move from 2 to 3 stocks owned in a long term move to have a diversified holding of dividend stocks.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> And stock, ie Bovril, OXO, Knorr.
> 
> They're all really strong companies with great brands and premium products that continue to hold on to their premium pricing.
> That's why it's hard for me to decide what to buy!


i now own both ... these are both buffet companies, well known, well used products and world-leading brands, both have good dividends, put them away in a shoebox and pull them out in 10 years


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

I own 2 of the three...PG and JNJ, and I wish I had of bought KMB as well, when I was looking at it a few years ago.

I guess my point is that any one of the three would be fine, as long term holds.

I would also add Pepsi to this equation.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Agreed warp. I think any one of 3 is good, two of three is great and three of three is excellent.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

warp said:


> I own 2 of the three...PG and JNJ, and I wish I had of bought KMB as well, when I was looking at it a few years ago.
> 
> I guess my point is that any one of the three would be fine, as long term holds.
> 
> I would also add Pepsi to this equation.


I bought all 3 several years ago , wish I'd initiate gigger positions.... added a little more of JNJ and PG on small pullbacks, but KMB was up and up...so sitting on very small position ....


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i added nestle today ...


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

Had to laugh.....I own Nestle too, bought several years ago.

Only headache is the 35% tax the dam Swiss gov't withholds on the dividends.

Also added Coke, finally on the recent dip, and its up nicely since.
The point of most of the stocks discussed on this thread are that they are long term, dividend paying stocks....and these always seem to do best when the dust settles, with less voliatility.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

warp said:


> Had to laugh.....I own Nestle too, bought several years ago.
> 
> Only headache is the 35% tax the dam Swiss gov't withholds on the dividends.


i thought it was supposed to be 15 ?

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...tp://www.fin.gc.ca/news97/data/97-045_1e.html


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

35% tax hit, yikes...


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

fatcat said:


> i thought it was supposed to be 15 ?
> 
> http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...tp://www.fin.gc.ca/news97/data/97-045_1e.html


The Swiss govt withholds 35%....but you can use that at tax time to lower Canadian taxes owing.

There is a way to recover 20% of the 35%, ( thereby lowering it to 15%). You have to get these Official Swiss forms from your broker,,,then fill them in with info on what you paid the Swiss govt, what your divs were etc, and mail them in. 

I have read where the Swiss govt literally takes 3-5 years to get back to you hopefully with a refund. I have these forms and have held Nestle for about 5 years, and one of these days I will get over my laziness and try and fill these forms out.

I own another Swiss comapny ( ABB) ...and they withhold NO taxes....this was hard for me to figure out until I finally saw on their website that dividends are paid out of Capital, ( or something like that), so no taxes were withheld...Hard to figure out all the stupid tax rules in all the different countries,,including right here at home.


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

fatcat said:


> i thought it was supposed to be 15 ?
> 
> http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/...tp://www.fin.gc.ca/news97/data/97-045_1e.html


FTACAT, just read that link you posted about teh SWISS/CANADA TAX TREATY..thanks for that.

It clearly states that the Swiss should withhold 15% taxes on dividends..but in real life, for whatever reason, it seems that it does not work that way. Perhaps a new teaty has been put in force,,who knows?

The common denominator here is that EVERY govt, EVERYWHERE, wants to get its hands into your pockets and STEAL your money...its pure theft.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

warp said:


> There is a way to recover 20% of the 35%, ( thereby lowering it to 15%). You have to get these Official Swiss forms from your broker,,,then fill them in with info on what you paid the Swiss govt, what your divs were etc, and mail them in.
> 
> I have read where the Swiss govt literally takes 3-5 years to get back to you hopefully with a refund. I have these forms and have held Nestle for about 5 years, and one of these days I will get over my laziness and try and fill these forms out.



don't do that warp
you're already worked up enuf over taxes, this exercise is going to give you cardiac arrest

see, you've already declared the dividends as income & claimed foreign tax credits for the 35% NR withheld, right?

now all of a sudden you're going to refile several years of back returns & declare the same incomes but *less* NR tax withheld for each of those years? the original foreign tax credits will now be less? the income tax payable will rise for each of those years?

you going to owe the canadian tax authorities extra tax for each of those back years?

you going be happy with that?

nae nae laddie tis best to let sleeping dogs lie ...

PS i believe you might be making a mistake? one doesn't get those forms from the broker, one gets em from the federal government of switzerland? it's the swiss gummint that has to authorize the NR remittance? 

good luck. Did you ever read franz kafka The Castle? poor peasant at the bottom of the mountain tries to phone authority figures holed up in a castle on top of a mountain. The entire novel is about peasant's attempts to get through. He never does get through. The allegory is supposed to be man trying to reach his indifferent gods on high ...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

warp said:


> The common denominator here is that EVERY govt, EVERYWHERE, wants to get its hands into your pockets and STEAL your money...its pure theft.


True  When I started direct investing about 4 years ago (didn't know about this forum yet) I knew about tax treaty with US about registered accounts.... so I was pretty sure that it's included TFSA and was unpleasantly surprised when I was charged dividend withholding tax.... same story when I bought into RRSP ADR stock and was charged 35% tax  . I know about other guys who got "killed" with about 49% on US LP like KMP....
Even when I wrote email to my discount brokerage, it took them several days to answer and only from 2nd attemp they answered that tax is APPROXIMETELY  such and such %...
IMHO, this information SHOULD be available on every discount brokerage website.

In any case I'm trying not to buy ADRs, and have exposure to then via ETF like VEA or DEM. And byt stocks like JNJ, KMB, PG directly as imho those 3 have the most sustainable dividends in the world


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

You can buy UK ADR's in a cash account because Britain will nOT withhold any taxes on dividends , in any account.

There are many good UK dividend companies, and I own several.....VOD< AZN< GSK< ESV, to name a few.

There are also others I am looking at UL, TSCDY, BBL, HSBC, UGG, etc

Just goolgle UK dividend ADR's 

I have read where discount brokerages do not want to give your residency, etc, to foreign goverments like the Swiss, for privacy reasons ( or so they say, although I think its because they do not want to be bothered with the extra work). Because of this we are charged the higher div tax rate, (35%), instead of the lower rate (15%) which it should be.

It all gets me mad as hell, but you have to live with it.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Sometimes it is interesting to look back at old threads. I am struggling with finding a place to deploy my recent IPT.TO windfall. I I had considered KMB as an option. review of this thread A comparison to PG and JNJ have resulted in longer term under performance. I also looked at CL and CLX. JNJ is the only one up YTD (yes I know 1Q means very little) but the rest have all been in the red. In fact when you compare JNJ to other s in the health care space (MRK NVS, BSX) it tracks more closely. Many consider JNJ to have a larger consumer products focus than their health care reality. Of the group plus a few others I think JNJ is the best stock. Of the remainders I am a little unsure as they each have reasons for their lower valuations. All have a long standing history of paying increasing dividends 50+ years

KMB 

is Consumer Def - Packaged Goods more specifically personal hygeine
operations are mostly NA
historic low to moderate dividend growth 4-5%, high payout north of 80%
PE around 23
PG 
-is also Consumer Def - Packaged goods but includes some small grocery

operations 1/2 NA 1/3 EM
slightly better dividend growth 5-6%, decent payout around 60%
PE around 27
JNJ

is more diverse with pharma medical equiptment focus, 1/3 consumer products
operations 1/2 in US
similar dividend growth as PG, payout around 55%
PE around 23
CL - 
-Consumer Def - packaged Goods again personal hygeine 

75% of sales international
dividend growth low 3-4 %, payout 70%
PE around 29
CLX

Consumer Defensive - Packaged goods - mostly cleaning products
mostly US sales
moderate dividend growth 6-7%, payout unsustainable over 200%
PE mid 60s

I am looking to add JNJ if we see a pullback but would allocate this to Healthcare. I welcome opinions on my analysis of the consumer defensives listed. I have quickly ruled out CLX. I already own UL and SAP. Anybody have Canadian selections they would recommend? My findings have been that most of the consumer defensive space is grocery and alcohol


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I haven't researched any of these, but I just did a screener and selected only Canadian consumer defensives. Excluding grocery and alcohol, here are some I noticed:

RSI Rogers Sugar
SAP Saputo
MFI Maple Leaf Foods
PBH Premium Brands Holdings
PRMW Primo Water Corp (this is a new one to me! but has a big market cap... weird.)
JWEL Jamieson Wellness
LAS Lassonde Industries (beverages non-alcoholic)
SOY SunOpta


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks @Spudd.

PRMW is the COTT water company. I screened these names earlier and JWEL was one that interested me.. I don't believe SOY popped up on my screen. I will take a closer look. I already hold SAP.

Added: Soy did not pass my screener as it does not pay a dividend.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I have further screened this list and have ruled many of them out for reasons listed below

RSI Rogers Sugar - has not raised dividend in over 5 years
SAP Saputo- have almost a full position
MFI Maple Leaf Foods - payout near high 80s. like the dividend growth will stay on watchlist
PBH Premium Brands Holdings payout in low 80s will stay on watchlist
PRMW Primo Water Corp no dividend growth payout is way too high.
JWEL Jamieson Wellness - 4 years of dividend growth reasonable. I don't foresee 20% dividend growth going forward but do see the probablility of high single low double digit with the payout in mid 40s. yield is lower than I like but high for the company historically. 
LAS Lassonde Industries (beverages non-alcoholic) - cut its dividend in recent years
SOY SunOpta does not pay a dividend.

May put in an order for JWEL.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I and my wife own (in mostly rrsp accounts) about equal stake in the 5-6 US large cap pharmaceutical stocks. JNJ, MRK, PFZ, ABBV, etc. I just don't see the same investing opportunities in Canada in this sector of equities. 

Recently sold P&G to seek more recovery after covid stock selection, but may be back into them in the future. 

As to a consumer defensive, I also own RSI. LSA, PEP in the US as well. I sorta soo out AMAZ as a consumer defensive since they now are a delivery channel for just about everything. Also MRU the grocer as a defensing. L in the past, but not right now. 

Consider CSW.A as a defensive. I do, and own shares. When things go for a **** folks may not go out to dine, but few will forego booze altogether.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Agree with you that Canada lacks in Health Care. I think the best attempt it made in recent years was medicinal marijuana which is not a space I would want to be in as an investor. 

Loblaw's had an amazing run and I think it will be awhile before the valuation looks tempting again as it did a year ago. MRU has also done well and I have them on my watchlist. I would agree the CSW.A holds its own in a downturn and can easily pass on costs to its customers.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Yes, I hold MRU, and in past have held L, buy recently felt it was getting overheated, so stepped out for a while. Both do grind out reliable dividends and are pretty much recession proof.


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