# Mortgage Approval/Underwriting/Denied



## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

Hi everyone! I'll make a long story short. Was pre-approved (not qualified, approved) through a bank for mortgage. Bought home, bank says we were denied now because of credit score. Not one thing has changed since we got the pre-approval (we didn't change jobs, we didn't make a big purchase, etc) Tried with another broker, they told me the bank should have seen immediately we wouldn't be approved and never should have given a pre-approval. Bank says underwriter has final say. So I asked to see the documents from the underwriter but they don't seem to want to give it to me. They just give me a generic letter saying they are sorry they mortgage is now denied. How can I get the file from the underwriter if the bank won't give it to me? Is it even possible? Who is the underwriter, can I contact them directly? Thank you for any help!!!


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

So.....What does your credit report(s) say?


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## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

Well it says my husbands is too low. But they check credit before they give you an approval do they not? So they checked it, and gave us the approval. Then changed their mind. If they would have said sorry your credit is too low from the beginning, I would understand of course. But they didn't. The second mortgage broker we tried to use after the refusal said the bank should have seen immediately that his credit score is too low and never should have given the approval.


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## balexis (Apr 4, 2009)

Sorry this happened to you, I can understand your frustration
But at this point, what is it that you really want? Prove that the bank messed up? You're not going to gain anything - they will never give you any compensation or agree to give you that mortgage because of your complaint, even if you are 100% right.
Did your broker look at other financial institutions? If you can't qualify anywhere else, as sad as it sounds, it means you do not have the financial solidity to make that purchase and that you have to postpone that step until you improve your husband's credit score and increase your cashdown.


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## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

Thanks Balexis. I don't want the mortgage, I understand we don't qualify, but we lost a large deposit on a home because we were told we were pre-approved for a mortgage so we went all in. Honestly, if we had done something wrong, I would take it as a lesson learned, however, not one thing had changed between the pre-approval and the purchase of the home. I believe the lady at the bank did not do her due diligence, misrepresented us, and possibly made some errors when submitting our files. We do have an attorney on the side lines willing to help, I'm just trying to get all the paperwork.

I just want to know if I can speak to the underwriter directly, and if I can get the actual file that was sent. Who is the underwriter? What documents does the underwriter send to the bank, etc, etc.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

i believe the underwriter is a senior lending officer employed by the bank who has the final say on loans.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Don’t bother with lawyers or lawsuits against the bank. It’s futile. There’s no point talking to an underwriter. It will never happen. They are not customer facing. Pre-quals and pre-approvals are never worth the paper they’re written on. They are conditioned to death. Subject appraisal, subject to this and that. The “file” you are looking for is Most likely made up of every document you provided to them. There’s nothing “extra” in the file that will enlighten you in any way. The underwriter is the bank. And makes decisions on documents that you provided. 

if you don’t want the mortgage then just drop it.


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## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

Thanks for all the replies. I don't intend to drop this whatsoever. Why would I drop it? What is the point of a pre-approval then? Why do you wait for someone to tell you everything looks in order, go ahead and start looking for a home, just to have them rip that out from you? Someone messed up somewhere and if it was me, I'd drop it. But it wasn't. Again, a pre-approval with NO CHANGES, no appraisals required, no nothing. People give up too easy these days. Thanks for everyone's input though, I appreciate it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mortgages aren't approved at the bank branch level. All they do is input the data you provide.

I suspect......either the bank loan officer inputted incorrect data on your credit scores, debts, or incomes.......or the head office of the bank has updated their assessment of the area where you are seeking to buy as a higher risk of future declines in equity due to high unemployment, climate change or they simply they have too many mortgages in one area.

It isn't likely they will ever reveal the reason for the withdrawal of the approval, but there is no law that forces them to lend the money.

It is considered a conditional "offer" from the bank........not a contract.


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## spiritwalker2222 (Nov 7, 2017)

Have you tried going to another broker? I would do that to get the mortgage to "keep" your deposit.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Lynn said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I don't intend to drop this whatsoever. Why would I drop it? What is the point of a pre-approval then? Why do you wait for someone to tell you everything looks in order, go ahead and start looking for a home, just to have them rip that out from you? Someone messed up somewhere and if it was me, I'd drop it. But it wasn't. Again, a pre-approval with NO CHANGES, no appraisals required, no nothing. People give up too easy these days. Thanks for everyone's input though, I appreciate it.


Pre-approvals without an appraisal are worthless. part Of the decision in underwriting is based on the actual property. I’ve always told people, that a pre-approval is almost worthless and it’s really only an affordability calculator. did the bank issue you a pre approval certificate? I’d love to see it. 

what’s your end game? To secure an approval? To Sue the bank?


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

Suggest you first contact the Office of the President of the bank and see what they have to say. If you are not happy with the response your next step would be to contact the Ombudsman for the Bank. Details should be on their website.
I had an issue a couple of years ago with one of the Big 5 banks where they agreed in writing to hold a GIC rate for about a month when a GIC at a competitor matured. A few weeks later I received a phone call from the individual I was dealing with and was informed that the program was cancelled and they could no do anything. My comments that "you said in writing" that you would hold the rate fell on deaf ears. I talked to the branch manager without results and then took the matter up with the Office of the President. I sent all the emails, etc to them and they still said "Sorry" and they would not do it. I then talked to the Ombusdman who secured the file from the Presidents office and they granted the rate and backdated all the entries. The latter was done in a day but again, everything was well documented. The difference in interest amounted to about 15,000. over the length of the term deposit. 
Could be worth a shot but hopefully everything was documented.


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## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

Money172375 said:


> Pre-approvals without an appraisal are worthless. part Of the decision in underwriting is based on the actual property. I’ve always told people, that a pre-approval is almost worthless and it’s really only an affordability calculator. did the bank issue you a pre approval certificate? I’d love to see it.
> 
> what’s your end game? To secure an approval? To Sue the bank?


 Yes I have an actual pre approval certificate. Honestly, my end game is just to hold them accountable for doing something incorrectly. Have them admit they were wrong somewhere along the way and apologize.


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## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

birdman said:


> Suggest you first contact the Office of the President of the bank and see what they have to say. If you are not happy with the response your next step would be to contact the Ombudsman for the Bank. Details should be on their website.
> I had an issue a couple of years ago with one of the Big 5 banks where they agreed in writing to hold a GIC rate for about a month when a GIC at a competitor matured. A few weeks later I received a phone call from the individual I was dealing with and was informed that the program was cancelled and they could no do anything. My comments that "you said in writing" that you would hold the rate fell on deaf ears. I talked to the branch manager without results and then took the matter up with the Office of the President. I sent all the emails, etc to them and they still said "Sorry" and they would not do it. I then talked to the Ombusdman who secured the file from the Presidents office and they granted the rate and backdated all the entries. The latter was done in a day but again, everything was well documented. The difference in interest amounted to about 15,000. over the length of the term deposit.
> Could be worth a shot but hopefully everything was documented.


Thank you! I did contact the Ombusdman and they told me to keep going through the chain of commands first. I will take the matter up with the Office of the President next as you suggested, since I am having no luck with supervisors.


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## Lynn (Aug 26, 2021)

spiritwalker2222 said:


> Have you tried going to another broker? I would do that to get the mortgage to "keep" your deposit.


Yes we tried and they told us right away the bank should have seen there was no way my husband could get a mortgage as he doesn't really have any credit. I have proof that the original bank pulled both of our credit files not once, but twice. So they definitely looked at it (which we assumed of course) but they should have saw something wasn't right from the get go is what the two other mortgage brokers we contact said. I also have that in writing.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Did you provide proof of income as part of the process?


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

There is a possiblity to be compensated. Keep reminding the bank you are buying a house. That mortgage makes them money with the possibility of chequing, savings account, credit card, line of credit, the list goes on.
I have won, they didn't pay the near the full cost, but the $1k instant deposit on a Friday let me party my problems away, LoL.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Lynn said:


> I don't want the mortgage, I understand we don't qualify, but we lost a large deposit on a home because we were told we were pre-approved for a mortgage so we went all in. Honestly, if we had done something wrong, I would take it as a lesson learned, however, not one thing had changed between the pre-approval and the purchase of the home.


You did do something wrong: you put down a large non refundable deposit. The lesson to learn is that you don't assume you'll have a mortgage until you have a mortgage.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

A pre-approval is not a commitment to buy. You should have been guided better by not putting non-refundable money down on a home. If you went through a broker, the broker is the one who pulls your credit report and should have advised you if your credit was bad. 

Most of the time, bank pre-approvals are merely rate-holds. Even if they did qualify you, they can always pull out once they review the property details. So bottom line, don't go making offers with a pre-approval - and certainly do not put money down without an official commitment.

Don't make a second error by trying to sue.......you'll just be out of more money.


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## balexis (Apr 4, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> and certainly do not put money down without an official commitment.


Can you actually get a 100% irrevocable, official mortgage commitment from a financial institution *before *your offer is accepted? When I last got a mortgage, the bank required a copy of the accepted offer, not just the offer itself.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

balexis said:


> Can you actually get a 100% irrevocable, official mortgage commitment from a financial institution *before *your offer is accepted? When I last got a mortgage, the bank required a copy of the accepted offer, not just the offer itself.


The financial institution can pull out, with good reason. They way it works is you make an offer conditional to financing. Once the financing is approved (all conditions met), then there is no reason the financial institution pulls out. Once that is obtained, you can satisfy your conditional offer and secure the sale. I don't see the need to ever put money down, unless you are very confident and trying to beat other bidders.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We never.......ever, bought a home without an offer that contained a "subject to financing" clause.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

As per above, I should add that the reality is different in today's real estate market for buyers, and not in a positive way.

They are competing for a home with other people and sellers are making demands such as "no conditions" that we never had to deal with. People buying homes without protecting themselves with "subject to inspection" or "subject to financing" clauses are getting themselves into all kinds of trouble.

Imagine paying $100,000 over an already ridiculous "asking price" and then finding out the foundation of the home is crumbling or there are other major problems with the home.

It is happening. We just don't hear about it much in the media.

A quality home is a quality home, but these days people who own a less than a good quality home are getting paid much more than the home is worth because of the frantic market.

It isn't a good situation for buyers.


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