# 23 with 46k planning for future.



## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

Hello,

Been a long time follower (year or so). Have learned a lot from the forums and would like to tell everyone thanks for their insight on different ways to make money. So i have about 46k invested (all made from min wage job and paid of tuition) with which i'm earning about 6% per annum, which is pretty good from what I believe. However I have recently convinced myself to take the plunge on quest trade and play stocks, which I will first try with 1k. However I do have some aspiration in life, as I'm sure you all did when your my age. Eventually i want to be able to own a million dollar home. I've done a few mortgage calculators with my girlfriend to figure out what I would need to do etc to retire comfortably at 50. Is there anyone that started investing early, and have had similar outcomes? I realize the time is different, and I still am making only 12/hr but as a recent graduate I'm expecting that to at least double or triple as I land a decent job. But I do eventually want to get married at 25 or so if the time comes, and buy my first house at 27 or so. I've also been actively searching purchasing foreclosure and renting it out, as a subsidiary income for now and maybe for the future.

Thanks for reading my long post

Raymond R-B.Sc.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

It'll be a lot easier to retire at 50 if you don't buy a million dollar home.

If you're making 6% on the money without being in stocks (how are you doing that, by the way??) I would definitely keep the majority of my money in the 6% return place. 

I started investing when I was in university, just in mutual funds and GICs in my RRSP. I'm now 39 and on a good path to retiring comfortably, I believe. However I don't own a million dollar home.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

What she said. I bought a "cheap" home (which has appreciated in price considerably). It might become a "million-dollar home" through price appreciation over time, but I didn't set out to buy a million-dollar home. I'm 45 and started investing seriously in my mid-20s. I have no intention of retiring in my mid-50s, but you can ask me again in 10 years.


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the response so far. I've seen alot of people saying don't buy a house at this time, etc etc. But I do think its an easy way to invest for the future, and helping my father with his investment properties, it is not as much work as I think its being portrayed on the boards. Take into account, I come from a very mechanically inclined background- plumbing, electrical, drywall, you name it.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Why a million dollar home? Why throw that value out there? You should be buying a house because it you like it _and can afford it_, not because it costs seven figures. Maybe you will be able to afford it, but then you won't have money left over to invest and save for Freedom 50 (which is a pretty young age to aim for retirement at, so you'll need to save pretty agressively compared to your peers). 3x your current wage isn't a lot of money. And why set the standards so high? You pay a million dollars for the house... then insurance will cost more. It will likely be big, so cleaning will be more of a chore. When you renovate, that will cost big bucks because, since the rest of the house is already really nice / really big / both, you have to renovate to the same standard. It's an endless cycle that doesn't stop when you close the purchase.

Nice job though, having 46K saved up at 23, after going to school for 4 years. I also am curious where you're getting this 6% return. Welcome to the forum!


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Work is not about money. Why do you want to retire? It's boring.

What you really want. Is to stop taking orders fromo others. If you just want a million dollar house to show off. That can be done NOW with a mortgage. Then you can retire and live off of the government.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

If you're earning 6% a year right now, leave it the hell alone. Forget the "playing stocks on quest trade", put the million dollar home out of your mind, and cross the retirement bridge when you get to it. 

You're sitting in an enviable position right now. Hoard every dollar you can over the next few years, buy a nice house with a decent down payment, and just keep investing as much as you can, but DON'T "play stocks".

The silly season must be upon us.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Great post as always by crazyjacks. Agreed on all counts. 

Very few people get to retire at 50. Million dollar home? Wow. 

Lots of swiss cheese around CMF lately.


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

the-royal-mail said:


> Great post as always by crazyjacks. Agreed on all counts.
> 
> Very few people get to retire at 50. Million dollar home? Wow.
> 
> Lots of swiss cheese around CMF lately.



There is holes in my plan. However it does not mean that is unattainable. Any goal can be reached if you look at the smaller steps to fulfill them, which is what I'm trying to do by using this form as one of many resources to enhance and educated my knowledge. Thanks all for the constructive criticism and positive posts so far. As for the investment check out Banwell financial. I've net an average of 6% in the 2 years I've been with them.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

If you really want to retire at 50, just as a goal, I would rephase 'i want to be able to own a million dollar home' to 'I want to have enough that I could buy a million dollar home', and just not buy it. I am actually in the position that I could buy a million dollar home, but wont because I would rather have the million dollars =)

Kudos first of all in your savings and all your hard work. I believe you have a big part of the equation nailed and that's the savings and planning part. Keep saving the way you do, so you can buy a house (an affordable one) The other thing I would focus more on instead playing around in stocks, etc, is really your income and earning potential. You should be doing everything you can to increase your long term earning potential through experience, education etc. This will have bigger pay off later.

In terms of has anyone been there, I started saving and 'investing' when I first got out of school at 21. Just putting money in my RRSP, and coming up with a plan to max it. I made that automatic and still have it come out monthly. I spent my early days in my career learning everything I could and volunteering for all the projects I could even if it wasn't a part of my job. As a result I got promoted on an average every 18 months. At the same time, my spouse (partner at the time), work his butt off to get experience and started contracting. Since consulting pays well, but is unstable we made all our financial decisions base on my income, and just banked his. We bought a house using the down payment my spouse saved, based on just my income, so it was less than 1/2 of what the bank would allow a mortgage for, which was a lot less in ratios than they are now. By NOT buying the largest house we could, we were able to have many more choices in life because we were not house poor or depending on 2 incomes. We have always had the choice of whether both of us need to be working or not, so that's invaluable when someone wants to stay at home with the kids, or loses a job. We both really like to work too, so having two incomes has allowed us to pay off our mortgage alot faster, buy additional property, and investments. We were able to hit the million dollar mark (total networth only, not just investments) in our early thirties, and could probably retire at fifty. 

I think you're on track, just don't get sucked into the image of the million dollar home. My spouse and I often talk about upgrading our house, and getting the bigger house, because really out of all of our friends, we have the most modest house. It seems unfair at times because we know we also have some of the highest incomes. Then we remind ourself not to get sucked in because we have the ability to buy any of the places if we really wanted to.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

crazyjackcsa said:


> If you're earning 6% a year right now, leave it the hell alone. Forget the "playing stocks on quest trade", put the million dollar home out of your mind, and cross the retirement bridge when you get to it.
> 
> You're sitting in an enviable position right now. Hoard every dollar you can over the next few years, buy a nice house with a decent down payment, and just keep investing as much as you can, but DON'T "play stocks".
> 
> The silly season must be upon us.


1+ on this. Don't get greedy; you're already doing well. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered...


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

Thanks alot 'plugging around' 

That actually helped me clear up somethings. With a net worth of 1mil in your thirties is really something special IMO.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Don't give up on your dreams, many improbable things can be acheived with determination and planning.
You may have to refine them as things change, like having kids, income etc., but you've got a very good start on things already with a degree and 46K at your age.

If you're handy and have the time maybe you could draw up the plans and do most of the building yourself, maybe find a wooded lot that's not overpriced, that way your construction project wouldn't draw unwelcome attention from the neigbours if it takes a long time to complete.
Or maybe you could find a good deal on a small cottage and put on a nice addition.

I've more or less accomplished what you have in mind (without the million dollar home) on a low income but my circumstances are different.
I have an older home I'm comfortable with that I think of more as a cottage with it's treed lot and a privacy fence in a small town.
I did all the renovations myself over time, wiring, insulation, drywall, roofing, plumbing, soffit, fascia, foundation work, the fence and so on.

I'm not quite 50 yet but I've been semi-retired for some years now.
Right now I work only about 65 days in the year, just enough to pay all my bills and put away an additional 5K per year. while living quite a frugal lifestyle.
If I weren't single though, or had any kids I would definitely still be working more than I do now but I seem to be content with things as they are now.

To get to this point I did work some crazy hours during my wealth building years, and always tried to live frugally.
I've stumbled and made a few great mistakes over the years, but live and learn, that's what life is all about.

One thing in your favour is that for the average investor there are now a lot more tools out there as well as easily available free knowledge than when I was 23.
Anyways, best of luck and welcome to the forums!


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

gtprince said:


> Thanks for all the response so far. I've seen alot of people saying don't buy a house at this time, etc etc. But I do think its an easy way to invest for the future, and helping my father with his investment properties, it is not as much work as I think its being portrayed on the boards. Take into account, I come from a very mechanically inclined background- plumbing, electrical, drywall, you name it.


I actually see nothing wrong in investing in real estate, but you really need to understand what you are doing and being confortable with it. I believe that real estate is a great way to invest in the future, IF you never to need to rely on it. More than 1/2 our networth is real estate (not just our main house). However, don't think that it is an easy way to the future. There is work, and it can be a lot of work. The learning curve can be high and expensive if make mistakes with tenants. I do think people make it a bigger deal on the boards because they have may have had to learn about how to manage properties themselves. However, I grew up helping managing (in a small aspects) properties starting at age 6, by the time I was 19, the expectation was I could do the whole thing from finding the new tenants, to arranging the walk throughs for move outs with family coaching. When my fiance and I rented first rented out our apartment I was 25, and learned to tell prospective tenants that we were renting out the place on our parents behalf, so they would think we were push overs, even though it was our own place. My point is, I've a couple of downs, and it is work, but I don't find it that hard. If you have been heavily involved with your fathers rentals, it might not be that bad. You could always ask your father if you can handle the next vacancy. That was a right of passage in our family was our first full tenant turnover. 


You also need to always have real hard cash to be able to float missing rent, repairs, turnover, etc. The problem with real estate is that because it's such a large investment, and is so long term, that you really can't be thinking of it as a way to easy cash. We have bought real estate more as an 'insurance'. Our goal is that we will never HAVE to sell it, but will be able to pass it along to our kids. 

I am not telling you to buy real estate, but depending our your personal circumstances and goals, it might not be as bad as an idea as some say. Just don't buy the million dollar home as an 'investment':biggrin:



gtprince said:


> Thanks alot 'plugging around'
> 
> That actually helped me clear up somethings. With a net worth of 1mil in your thirties is really something special IMO.


Honestly, $1 Mil net worth in your thirties does not seem to be that much when you are living it. It's just another number and goal. That being said, I think there there is nothing wrong with your goals of retire early, and live in a million dollar house. You just have to undestand why that is important to you, and what you are actually going to do about it. I know many who have accomplished the goals that you state, and some that make both of those goals. My spouse and I have similar goals. Ours is to BE ABLE to retire by 50 (though we most like will not), and to BE able have a big million dollar house too. However, our definition of what it represents may be different from others. For us the ability to retire early means that we will have more in our retirement funds and investments than is required to pay for two graduate level degrees, plus meet our retirement costs at a 3% withdrawel rate (which we would mean our money would never run out even if our spending increase slightly), and if we choose to buy a million dollar (or what ever that number is), it represents that we will have had the money to pay cash to buy the house outright, and felt that we are on track to our financial goals. 

My point to this rambling...
Don't let people to discourage on what your goals are. They are your goals, and no one elses. If you don't think big you won't ever make it big.
Understand the deeper meaning of your goals if there is one, this can be a source of motivation.
Even if it seems like our net worth is great, it doesn't feel like we are doing any better than anyone else. So don't ever let your networth define you, nor do not ever assume that having certain material possessions will make you feel 'rich'


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

You should read "The Millionaire Next Door". The author has studied how wealth is formed for decades, and one of the biggest inhibitors of wealth he has identified is buying more home than you can comfortably afford. You might get that million dollar home some day, but I recommend to stay away from it until you're ready. Sure there are people who take every last dollar they have and buy the most expensive house they can afford with 5% down and a jumbo mortgage, but they're stupid.

And another thing, since you're planning on getting married: Get a prenup!

I think there's nothing wrong with taking a small amount of money that you can afford to lose and opening a trading account with questrade, I did exactly that a bit over a year ago. Sure there's no guarantee you will beat the market, but you will learn a lot when you are directly trading with your own money.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> If you really want to retire at 50, just as a goal, I would rephase 'i want to be able to own a million dollar home' to 'I want to have enough that I could buy a million dollar home', and just not buy it. I am actually in the position that I could buy a million dollar home, but wont because I would rather have the million dollars =)
> 
> I think you're on track, just don't get sucked into the image of the million dollar home.


gtprince, as a fellow "Young CMF'er" (I am 22 years old), I would like to reiterate what PA has already said.

It should not be about "buying" the million dollar home. In fact, you will find as time goes on that it is much more self fulfilling to _know_ you can buy something, IF you wanted to.

For example, at work, many of my colleagues drive $50k+ cars. Even people that are 22 and 23 years old like you and I. But what you have to realize is that what you see is not reality. These people have just financed their cars or bought on a Personal Line of Credit. How do I know this? I ask them.

But you know what feels _really_ good? Knowing that if I wanted to buy a $50,000 car, I could go ahead and do it - without a PLOC/Lease or Financing.

And when you look at it objectively like that, I guarantee that you will not want to make that purchase anymore. I would love an Audi S4/S5, and I could go get one today (if I chose). I just don't want to. Eventually, you will feel this way about the million dollar home.

I looked up "Banwell Financial". I don't really know much about it, so I'll leave it at that. If you made 6% yoy for the last 2 years, then that's good given the market volatility and bad news.

With regards to real estate - I've never bought real estate. I am too scared. I much prefer the stock market. There are less headaches and fees associated with the stock market.

For example: Instead of placing $50k on a down payment, I could buy $50k worth of BMO Stock. This would get me about 900 shares and cost me $9.00 in commissions. Then, I will get paid $630 every 3 months in dividends, plus price appreciation.

^ Now, that doesn't sound all that great, right? But here's the kicker.

With the stock purchase, I don't have to:

Pay land transfer taxes, property taxes, maintenance costs, insurance, CMHC (if applicable), interest to the bank for the mortgage, hydro + utilities etc.

AND, instead of paying down a mortgage each month.... well, I am free to do whatever I wish with my paycheque after that. I can buy more stocks, start a business, whatever.

Real Estate definitely can make money. I'm not saying it cannot. What I am trying to communicate is that I think Real Estate investing lives in a bubble in people's brains, which is also the reason is has become a bubble in certain parts of Canada. There are many expenses to consider and it is a lot more work.

Have you tried playing with Mortgage Calculators? Here.... I just played around for you at a "conservative" approach (in your favour).

Assume you take on a $200,000 Mortgage (low!) at 3.29% (low!) over a 5 year fixed term and amortize it over 25 years. 

Your Monthly Payment will be:
$976.50

Interest Cost for the Term (5 years)
$30,475.11

See this^. You are spending more than $6k per year in Interest to the bank alone. That's not including anything else! That's just interest. That's also at an extremely low interest rate. And remember, if real estate ever comes down..... a 10% correction on $250k is not the same as a 10% correction on $50k in Stock. The house is going to hurt a lot more and its going to be harder to sell (if you chose to sell it).

But hey.... I'm not trying to sway your opinion. I'm just trying to open your mind.

Also - if you do try your hand at Questrade, I strongly, strongly urge you to not start with $1k. You need to start with at least $5k and try not to buy anything over $25/share. Why is this? Because if you buy a stock at the wrong price (which will probably happen because you are new), you will need extra funds to buy more of it at a cheaper price to bring down your average price or Adjusted Cost Base/Basis (ACB).


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> And another thing, since you're planning on getting married: Get a prenup!


Ugh. Please do this. Seriously. No matter how much you love your girlfriend....


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Unless she has more money than he does.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Also - if you do try your hand at Questrade, I strongly, strongly urge you to not start with $1k. You need to start with at least $5k and try not to buy anything over $25/share. Why is this? Because if you buy a stock at the wrong price (which will probably happen because you are new), you will need extra funds to buy more of it at a cheaper price to bring down your average price or Adjusted Cost Base/Basis (ACB).


But funding a questrade account with $1000 means $3000 of buying power. That's enough to start trading (not that I recommend going close to your margin limit). And no one is forcing you to throw more money at a stock when it dips, you can just wait it out...


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> Unless she has more money than he does.


:biggrin:



Sherlock said:


> But funding a questrade account with $1000 means $3000 of buying power. That's enough to start trading (not that I recommend going close to your margin limit). And no one is forcing you to throw more money at a stock when it dips, you can just wait it out...


It wouldn't make sense for him to use margin. He's a new investor and he has capital. He would not use margin, regardless of buying power. That would just be... for lack of better words... (not so smart?)

Also, correct. Nobody is forcing you to throw more money at a stock when it dips. You can just wait it out.... but throwing money at it on dips is how you will make money in this type of a market. Dollar Cost Averaging is important (so long as you bought a real company, like a bank, telecom, utility, railway, energy co, etc and not facebook, linked in, zynga, yadda yadda.....)


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I strongly, strongly urge you to not start with $1k. You need to start with at least $5k....


I disagree as the OP says he wants to 'trade/play stocks' and $1K for a beginner is a good start in case things don't go well.

A beginner should not dollar cost average to correct mistakes as that could make things even worse; I remember someone here invested a lot of money on YLO through DCA for example. 

There are no short-cuts in investing, so I would recommend you first read a few books about investing & also do virtual trades before doing it live, and avoid penny stocks.

I find it amusing that so many young people [fresh out of school] are already thinking about 'a comfortable retirement age' as that was the last thing on my mind after I graduated. You should be thinking about retiring at 67, not 50 as haven't you heard that 67 is now the new 50? 

Welcome to the forum GT-Prince.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> I disagree as the OP says he wants to 'trade/play stocks' and $1K for a beginner is a good start in case things don't go well.
> avoid penny stocks.


$1,000 isn't going to buy much. Generally, stocks with lower prices are less stable.

At $10/share, the OP would have to buy 100 shares (his full $1,000), and then the stock would have to go up by 10% for him to even make $100....

OP has said in his first post that he's been around on the forums for a long time. I am sure he would pick a decent, stable, blue chip company to start with.

Personally.. If he were only going to invest $1k, I would just tell him to not bother and give that $1k to Banwell. At least he knows he will more than likely make 6% on Banwell...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

IMO, it's not about the amount of shares [or even profits at first], but about gaining practice/experience & limiting losses. Baby steps..... & reading forums is not the same as reading books.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

What does your dad say?He has investment properties-check!-You prob don't need advice from 85% of the finance bloggers here(there writers)Talk to your dad!He has real world expierence,and knows the business.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Great points about actually playing with a small amount first. I find it's different practice with real money vs theory or eveN those simulations. I know even when we started to learne the rules for poker for fun, we would do it for bragging rights first, so no money, and people took all sorts of silly risks and moves. We then did a $2, yep a toonie, and it was hilarious to see the behavior changes in terms of risks, in orde to possibly win the $12 pot. So try a little for the practice and hopefully you are up.

In terms of real estate, don has nailed it. Talk t your dad. You know each other, and can see if it's the right fit. 

In


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> And when you look at it objectively like that, I guarantee that you will not want to make that purchase anymore. I would love an Audi S4/S5, and I could go get one today (if I chose). I just don't want to. Eventually, you will feel this way about the million dollar home.
> 
> 
> With regards to real estate - I've never bought real estate. I am too scared. I much prefer the stock market. There are less headaches and fees associated with the stock market.
> ...


I don't know if it's totally true about the first line that you won't want the million house when you can buy it. I think it get to the point that you still really want it, but then you are much more rational because you saw what it took to get here and you are buying under different circumstances and or different reasons. 

Back to real estate, just do ou numbers and talk to you dad. I do think some here are really overstating how hard it can be, but I also see many in real life get over their.

My spouse bought the condo by putting $20 k down which her borrowed from his rrsp and parents on a $80k condo. He has to scrimp and save as he wasn't making much just over $30k. It was really tight at first, but he was okay because we got another roommate, and he was moving fast in his career. He also had a float. Our condo at the height of the market was $280+k and now is about $240k. We have had very little issues with renters and have had little with repairs. We have always been cash flow positive. I do have to admit I hate it when some moves out because that can take me up to 100 hours to find a new tenant, but usually it's about avg 40. For me about 600 hours of work over 12 years, which is well worth it. I can't even figure out what a $220k on a $20k over twelve year investment is in terms of a rate. I think that's over 20% each year. I would have to spend much more time actively managing my portfolio to receive such returns.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

That was a different time, you're not gonna find a condo for 80k today that will be worth 240k in 12 years anywhere in Canada. Your example is more luck than anything else.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

My other property bought in 2006 during the boom for $160' now $220. I am actually looking at a house right now for $310 that is under valued in a great neighborhood, but needs some work. Rents in that area are about $1600 to 1800. I absolutely agree that I am a very lucky person and am fortunate. Perhaps I am so lucky because I don't close the door when luck comes knocking, and I don't tell it to go away because it's too much work or risk.

My good friend has purchased 12 properties since 2006' most recent last year, they are all at at least break even cash flows, with some appreciation.

My point, is that in different circles of people, there is still money to be made. Am I saying that everyone sold do it, no, but almost everyone here is so anti re. My nephew lurks on here, he is looking at getting into real estate. He won't post here because he said already knows what everyone has to say. For his situation, he should be able to do it if he wants. He has grown up with it, and has lots of mentors.

Also, I don't expect to make triple my cost in 12 years. I do expect to meet just at or about inflation. I tell others that if you think you will double your money and fast, then you shouldn't be getting in real estate. I tell people that I expect the property to double in cost within 40 years. I don't think there has been any 40 year period in history where that is unreasonable. In the meantime, I will get cash flow.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

To OP. i don't think asking advice on a forum like his is going to be very useful to you. There are many divergent views and most have some validity. My advice: work hard and save as much as you can. I'm not sure what kind of advice you were expecting or even whether you expected any at all but rather just wanted to tell your story? Anyway good luck-you are off to a good start.


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

Square Root said:


> To OP. i don't think asking advice on a forum like his is going to be very useful to you. There are many divergent views and most have some validity. My advice: work hard and save as much as you can. I'm not sure what kind of advice you were expecting or even whether you expected any at all but rather just wanted to tell your story? Anyway good luck-you are off to a good start.


I've actually read everyone's post, and I am learning and will continue to learn. Others experiences help gauge me with my own that are too follow. Even if I have not been in them yet, I can and probably will remember, someone had a similar experience this is how they resolved or worked around/ towards whatever it was, and I will form my own ideas from that and go from there.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

I disagree with your disagreeing  with 1k they will rape him $29 for each trade, just based on that it's not worth it... I would say even 5k is not enough, 10k+ needed 



Toronto.gal said:


> I disagree as the OP says he wants to 'trade/play stocks' and $1K for a beginner is a good start in case things don't go well.
> 
> A beginner should not dollar cost average to correct mistakes as that could make things even worse; I remember someone here invested a lot of money on YLO through DCA for example.
> 
> ...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

blin10 said:


> I disagree with your disagreeing  with 1k they will rape him $29 for each trade, just based on that it's not worth it... I would say even 5k is not enough, 10k+ needed


That's ok., we can agree to disagree. each:

OP mentioned opening a Questrade account, so that would be $4.95 a trade for up to 500 shares I believe.

I see your and KaeJS' point, but I would not encourage newbies to trade with more money until they know what they are doing and JMHO.

Cheers!


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

The reason I wanted to just use 1000 dollars and not a greater amount, is due to the fact that I only have experience with the free virtual traders. On that note, someone else noted the point, that it varies greatly when its real money, and I wanted to get a feel of how it works, and learn the ins and outs, which I dont think any amount of reading will do. I believe its one of those things where you can read about it all you want, but you do need some 'hands-on' experience to put the words to value.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Ya but you don't have enough ''powder" to do anything.At this stage you should be thinking about investing and not trading.Think ownership in a company(long-term)Imo you need more capital to build a few positions(your core holdings/bedrock of a portfolio)What are you going to gain by trading right off the bat?What are you going to trade?Pharm stocks?You may as well go to the race track and bet on a pony(mr market will likely pound you).How did you make out with your free virtual trades?How much ''fake" money were you playing/managing with?What kinda trades were you putting on in that virtual acct?It should of been a lot harder than you thought(you should be **** scared if you were trading).Were you just gambling or were you building positions in different sectors,weighing your % on each holding,watching your holding and buying on dips ect ect.What stocks(companies)did you fake trade?What is on your watchlist right now?(for real capital trades)which trades are you studying?-just curious.-The market is'nt a video game-not saying you think it is.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

I am exactly like you, just a year older, and no girlfriend 
I graduated last year, got a full time gig for 26 an hour
i was making 13 an hour before at my old job, but managed to save up ~40k like you

I just purchased a huge house, all alone, in 20 years, i hope that house will increase to half a million
I offered very low on the house, not expecting to get it, as I did this a few times, finally luck came my way
House is valued at about 300k, I got it for 250k, mainly because the garage floor is completely destroyed and cracked from a large tree root near it and no one wanted to pay top dollar for an unfinished 300k house
but come on, who cares about the garage  cut down tree, wait 2 years, gravel the floor or whatever, the basement is a crawl space, everything is built on wood... my real estate agent was super annoyed i filled this out, but we surprised everyone, the current lowest valued house in this area with similar stats was 280k, and that house was not updated like this one, new roof, water tank, etc... the couple got transferred to vancouver and dumped it quickly to me  offers anytime, rules! no bid war haha

When you go to buy your expensive house, the more you put down the better!
I put 20% down, to avoid CMHC and I have some spare cash floating around, If its all good in a year from now, I can add it to the anniversity lump sum
pay it off quick

I like how they said, get a prenup (unless your girlfriend is 110% bound to make more than you)
You have to protect what is yours
I will forsure do this, unless I marry a doctor, who has a more expensive house than I do

Stocks are risky, I always just went with the lame savings account, a few years ago it was at 4%, but now, you're lucky to get 2%
but its safe, money in the bank!

I would suggest you just live very very cheap for the next few years, stay at home with mom, or split the rent with your girlfriend if you need
stay cheap cheap cheap

My friends all made fun of me for living with mom, while they are enjoying their apartment life
now, I will have the fanciest house of them all, and will be paid off in less than 25 years, and I can look at retiring from my govt job by then

every dollar you earn today, will actually be worth 2 dollars, because you'll be saving that money on interest when you do buy your house

a quick example pay 200k for a house, after an additional 200k interest turns into 400k
put 100k down, the 100k loan can be paid off faster, and say only 100k-200k interest

I can't imagine the interest you would pay on a 1 million dollar house
I say the best way to get one of those, would be to play the lotteries 

Some lotteries have those 1 million dollar houses, the winners come in, have to pay over a grand each month in taxes
realize that taxes will never end (like a mortgage will) and sell it after a year (avoiding cap gain)

home is where your heart is, you don't need that fancy pool, go to the public one down the street, etc...

if you buy a house, plan to live in it for at least 4 years to off set any realtor fees, and then likely your term is up, dont take any penalties and decide what to do with it then renting is always a possibility but risky, just like holding real estate could be risky, markets could go up, or could go down
with a house, you have added fees, that you have to pay, and dont really get money back from them, ie taxes, heat, water, cable, etc... even things like lawn mower breaking, all add up
living home at mom, or maybe an apartment, reduces those costs pretty huge,, very huge
my brother lived at home until 29, he is now 40, and he is getting close to being a millionaire
im moving out at 24
5 years, huge difference, i won't be a millionaire by my brothers age

everything has risk expect basic savings, gic's, bonds, etc...

when you start going into the stock market, sure you could make 5k in one day, but you can also loose 6k the following day
My RRSPs are in mutual funds, last month, 1000 dollar gain, this month, 1500 loss  but im glad, i added money, and the 13 dollar an hour company matched me 50%

I can take those RRSPs (up to 25k) to buy my first home, assuming I pay it back in the next 15 years [x ~1500 rrsps/year](AKA a free 7,500 dollar advance from income tax[my income wont change]) or pay the ~500 dollar extra fee (added income for that single year, if not paid back) 
but since I got a free 50% return, well well well worth it

Play the stock market for fun, stock market COULD be a better gambling choice than VLTs, Casino, or Horse racing
but you gotta think, all these gambling things are designed to make money.. why do stock markets exist in the first place? companys want loans, they have more money, they turn it around and make more money
build your own money first!!!!!!
My dad has won over 500k playing the horses, he also invest over a million dollars
but... thats what my dad does for his entertainment, thats what he likes, thats what gives him excitement
instead of watching a movie, he'll be watching the ponys

Do whatever excites you, just think about your future

The most important thing is your health  then money, lol

Congratz on your current successes, you will have a bright future!


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I also don't have a girlfriend.


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

Thanks sheabutter, if you dont mind me asking you, what held you back from buying an expensive car? or some expensive depreciation item? and to Donald, I think your 100X ahead of me, but from the advice I've been getting the stock market doesn't seem like a wise choice at 1k, the risk overcome the gain IMO.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

A few things.

The most minimum you should go with is 3k if it is for training with real money. Understand that at 3k, the best case scenario is breakeven, unless you go in with margin like KaeJs does. For my own training with real money, I've spent at least 10k in commissions alone over the life span of my investment life. At 5k, you are starting to escape the commission problem associated with high frequency of trading.

Another thing, how are you earning 6% right now? It tells me that whatever it is you put your money in is also at risk of losing value, hence not perfectly safe. So you are already playing some sort of market game. (Excuse me if it's already explained, I did not read all the replies)


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

gtprince said:


> Thanks sheabutter, if you dont mind me asking you, what held you back from buying an expensive car? or some expensive depreciation item? and to Donald, I think your 100X ahead of me, but from the advice I've been getting the stock market doesn't seem like a wise choice at 1k, the risk overcome the gain IMO.


I was gifted a 1996 buick regal from my grandfather, it started breaking down, and one time i had a date with a girl and it broke down  it was keyed, and "written off" (a year before breakdown) so MPI valued it at 2,000 dollars (said i had 2 years to claim this money or i lose my claim) the next day i went to the dealership and bought the first car i saw 13k +2k taxes, gave up my car to MPI got my 2k cheque
2008 g6

basically I drove that car into the ground, and did an impulsive buy, I bought slightly used to save money, if i were to do it again, I would have bought from kijiji and avoided the taxes!
for some strange reason, i wanted to show this girl me in a working car haha, and i swear if they didnt make that song "like a g6" ....

I also wasted over 5,000 dollars in triathlon gear (my used bike + tires would still sell for 3k)

but, when I go to restaurants, i order water
i wait until boxing day and buy 4 pairs of running shoes (for the year)
again if i need anything fancy, boxing day it is 
i havent bought any new clothes in quite some time, if ever 

if i have something crappy, but working, ill drive it into the ground! i dont care what people think about me or my habbits
a penny saved is a penny earned
I wear sweat pants in public http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Hbu4Z4pGI (if this link doesn't work type > "Jerry Seinfeld: Sweatpants" < in youtube) that explains everything
I am doing better than anyone I went to school with, sweat pants or not

then again, this could be why I dont have a girlfriend


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## gtprince (Jun 14, 2012)

I am the same way shea, I rather have that money in the bank, then in something that depreciates, there's just times where it is tempting. I believe in buying a car or any other depreciate as a way to make profit. So I would buy something at a good deal that needs repairs, do the repairs in my free time and then turn it over. 

I just found out that 'banwell' charges 5% front and 5.5% back, is this standard? High or low? Kind of dettering me from investing more money.


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## boipinoi604 (Feb 13, 2012)

Dude, if you're making 6% that is pretty much stock market average.
No need to get into stocks.


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