# Stock losses from the tech bubble



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I bought a bunch of stock back in the late 1990s in the tech bubble. Probably 6-12 different companies. 

I lost money on all of them. They’re still listed in my portfolio but they all show inactive or not listed. 

I’d like to finally write these off against some gains I will have in 2019. 

The problem:
- I don’t have any paperwork showing how much I invested and the purchase price
- most, if not all the stocks, either changed their name, broke up into smaller companies with new names,distributed shares in a new name etc etc. I’ve tried to track down the flow of name changes and distributions....some of the stock changed names 3or 4 times

I’m probably down like $10k on all these shares. 

Bank only holds records for 7 years. What I do have is the current stock name and current shares held. 

Any thoughts on how I can write these off without 100% documentation?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

It doesn't sound like you have even sold the shares yet? You are pretty nearly out of time for this year's purposes. Are you intending to sell next Wed? (could be a challenge if volumes are low and/or delisted)
Do you know their ACB but just don't have confirmation slips to support your number?
Do your statements carry a book value for them that looks like your ACB? (most likely to be the case if you bought them in that account at the time)


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Will be Selling next year. No guess at abc and no statements. Book value shows zero online.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Do you know their ACB but just don't have confirmation slips to support your number?
> Do your statements carry a book value for them that looks like your ACB? (most likely to be the case if you bought them in that account at the time)


Was going to ask similar questions. Normally people would keep their brokerage trading confirmations, or at least the annual summary of transactions for the calendar year. 

This may be a lesson to deal with losers on a regular basis. 20+ years is a long time to let baggage accumulate.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Aelk799 said:


> Will be Selling next year. No guess at abc and no statements. Book value shows zero online.


So the issue would be moot for completing 2018 taxes in Mar-Apr next year. If you sell next year and report a loss on your 2019 taxes in Mar-Apr 2020, you can request a capital loss carryback and adjustment of your 2018 taxes. But it sounds like these shares may not be saleable in a conventional sense? Talk to your broker about a token sale or a deed of gift to them - discussed here.

I wouldn't try to claim the capital loss without being able to support your purchase cost with some kind of supporting record - the historical paper confirmation slip or monthly statement showing the purchase activity for example.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

I would double check with the brokerage division of the bank I kinda thought for a fee you can go back further then 7 years


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

That's the kicker... There will be a fee and perhaps a hefty one given a lot of this happened 25+ years ago. Should have been dealt with >20 years ago. 

I am hazarding a guess with a zero book value, this is not the original brokerage in which the stocks were bought. I am guessing they were transferred over from elsewhere. The OP has not disclosed any of that history with whom they were bought and how, etc, etc, etc.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

just wing it, and come up with some reasonable numbers on your own....its worked for me.....


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Ignoring the documentation issue for a bit ... the stocks where the company still exists, you should be fine. For ones that ceased to exist, my understanding is that one was to report them on that particular tax year. 

For example, say a company announced in 2005 that they were dissolving then one had to report on one's 2005 tax return the loss. As this is beyond the ten year period for amending tax returns, the loss can no longer be reported. Technically the limit for updating the returns is three years (unless something keeps the return active) but there are write ups saying CRA has allowed up to ten years.


For the documentation ... is it a bank or a bank owned broker?
I'd have to check but where I signed up for paperless statements, I seem to recall the electronic copies being available for more than seven years.


Cheers


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... For the documentation ... is it a bank or a bank owned broker?
> I'd have to check but where I signed up for paperless statements, I seem to recall the electronic copies being available for more than seven years.
> Cheers


TDDI it looks like online confirmations are available back to Jan 2011 and statements from Dec 2011.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> Ignoring the documentation issue for a bit ... the stocks where the company still exists, you should be fine. For ones that ceased to exist, my understanding is that one was to report them on that particular tax year.
> 
> For example, say a company announced in 2005 that they were dissolving then one had to report on one's 2005 tax return the loss. As this is beyond the ten year period for amending tax returns, the loss can no longer be reported. Technically the limit for updating the returns is three years (unless something keeps the return active) but there are write ups saying CRA has allowed up to ten years.
> 
> ...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Those losses are a big deal. I wouldn't let go of such juicy losses so easily. Do you know the date you purchased the stocks?

Perhaps you can dig up some evidence of past share price. As mentioned earlier, if the companies still exist then it's relatively easy. Use stock price history (e.g. Yahoo Finance, stockcharts.com) or contact the company's investor relations to inquire about past share prices.

How about looking at old newspaper records? I would hope that libraries still have archives of Globe & Mail and other newspapers going back a long time. Maybe this could be used as evidence?

I agree, this is a tough problem without official records.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The problem is waiting a decade or more without doing anything about it, given it seems these assets were both purchased and became worthless somewhere in that 10 year span of year 2000 +/- years. It seems the OP has some anecdotal evidence of when these things were purchased, so I agree some historical evidence exists somewhere, such as the suggested G&M or Financial Post stock pages in one's local library. At this point, I don't think anyone knows what CRA might, or might not, accept.

The OP needs to understand, for the future, it is important to crystallize and file the capital losses when they are incurred and keep them, if desired, as a carry forward for future years (unlimited) or as far back as 3 years.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Yes, we all learn from things we did when we are 18 or 19 years old. One of the stocks was nortel. All the others were penny stocks. Some of the companies may still exist but are not listed on exchanges.....is that possible?

I guess what I need is a reliable source to track historical stock prices. This was all back in the 1998-2001 timeframe.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

One thing to do is to start googling the individual companies and seeing what they morphed into over time, if any, and if they ceased trading and/or declared bankruptcy and/or were acquired, it wouldn't be that hard to find out when those dates occurred. It is not a long shot to assume most went to zero. The trail for Nortel isn't that hard to follow by googling it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Aelk799 said:


> ... Can’t you carry losses forward indefinitely? I’ve never claimed any losses. Or do you need to lodge the loss in the year it happened, and then carry if forward as an unclaimed loss?


The key is that the capital loss has to be recorded on your tax return on Schedule 3, Part 3 for the tax year it happened in. It has to be applied in the current year first. If it can't be,then a form can be used to apply up to three years in the past or carried forward indefinitely.
https://www.taxtips.ca/filing/capitallosses.htm

Nortel declared bankruptcy in 2009 so where it was held to the bitter end, the capital loss should have been recorded on the 2009 tax return. It is getting close to too late to update the 2009 tax return to record the Nortel loss.


Cheers


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## martik777 (Jun 25, 2014)

"Income Tax Act s. 50(1)
You may have an investment in some shares or debt which have become worthless, but you can't sell them because the security is no longer listed on a stock market. There is a section of the Income Tax Act that allows you to claim a capital loss on these shares or debt even though you cannot sell them. This section also applies to debt owed by a corporation to a taxpayer. Subsection 50(1) deems a taxpayer to have disposed of a debt or a share of a corporation at the end of a taxation year for nil proceeds and to have reacquired it immediately thereafter at a cost of nil if:..."


https://www.taxtips.ca/stocksandbonds/worthless-shares-or-debt.htm


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## pearl (Mar 5, 2015)

I have the same issue with NT. Looking at TD tax package, I see a sell transaction of 20 shares of Nortel in April 2018 with a capital lose of US$3378. I know I bought these shares back in 2001. But TD did not issue a T5 regarding this transaction. I am not sure if I am able to claim those back.


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