# Getting Evicted



## none (Jan 15, 2013)

*Being Evicted*

Maybe renting ain't all that after all. Blurg, what a pain in the butt.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Don't know the rules in BC, but in Ontario it is difficult to evict a bad tenant, much less a good one.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

The landlady wanted to change the terms of our lease - she wanted unconditional access to our house through the laundry room (to use our laundry room). She currently has a restraining order against an ex boyfriend and we said due to the safety concerns for our son we would only allow her access for one day per week between the hours of 9-5 (when we were out). There was no suggestion in our lease for sharing our basement/laundry room.

Anyway, this wasn't good enough for her so she decided to bring in the 'Landlord use' clause of the act. Meaning she can kick us out after 2 months (we are month to month). Only con for her is she has to give us the equivalent of 1 month rent (2K). That part is nice but moving is a massive pain in the butt. I have a string of emails which really points to that she is kicking us out and using this clause because we won't accept a change in the conditions of our lease. 

What a pain. Oh well.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

So she will not be renting out this unit to anyone else? She intends to use it herself or use if for a close family member? 

http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/documents/GL02.pdf


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Honestly I don't think can afford to stay in the house herself and is just using this to get us out. Then she can find someone new and sign them with a lease that gives her access to the basement whenever she wants.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Technically she is not allowed, and I believe in order to evict you she would have to demonstrate her intentions with proof.

2. Good Faith Requirement when Ending a Tenancy 
Page 2-1 
Mar-12 

March 1, 2012 

This policy guideline is intended to provide a statement of the policy intent of legislation, and has been 
developed in the context of the common law and the rules of statutory interpretation, where appropriate. This 
guideline is also intended to help the parties to an application understand issues that are likely to be relevant. It 
may also help parties know what information or evidence is likely to assist them in supporting their position. 
This guideline may be revised and new guidelines issued from time to time. 
This policy guideline addresses demonstration of good faith when a landlord ends a 
tenancy for landlord’s use of property. 

LEGISLATIVE FRAMEWORK 
The Residential Tenancy Act1 and the Manufactured Home Park Tenancy Act2 allow a 
landlord to end a tenancy if the landlord intends in good faith to: 

• provide the rental unit to a new caretaker, manager or supervisor, when the 
employment of the tenant has ended; 
• move in themselves, or allow a close family member to move into the unit; 
• sell the unit and after all the conditions of sale are removed, the purchaser requests 
the seller issue the Notice to End Tenancy because they or a close family member 
intend to move in; or 
• substantially renovate or demolish the rental unit, with all required permits and 
approvals, or convert it to another use, including a caretaker’s unit, or convert it to a 
strata unit. 

GOOD FAITH REQUIREMENT 
Good faith is an abstract and intangible quality that encompasses an honest intention, 
the absence of malice and no ulterior motive to defraud or seek an unconscionable 
advantage. 
A claim of good faith requires honesty of intention with no ulterior motive. The landlord 
must honestly intend to use the rental unit for the purposes stated on the Notice to End 
the Tenancy. This might be documented through: 
• a Notice to End Tenancy at another rental unit; 
• an agreement for sale and the purchaser’s written request for the seller to issue a 
Notice to End Tenancy; or 
• a local government document allowing a change to the rental unit (e.g., building 
permit) and a contract for the work.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Yes I've been reading a lot of the guidelines and i think the good faith guideline is the killer. Really though, do we want to live in a house where a person who has keys to the place doesn't want us there?

Plans are 
1) wait for the notice, point out 3 days after the notice is given (assuming in the mailbox) that it doesn't have a months rent in it and is therefore invalid - that should buy us another month.
2) Find place to live under the rules here we only have to give 10 days notice and only have to pay for those days - that should give us a lot of 'find a place' flexibility
3) File grievance with board claiming failure of Good faith (its pretty obvious from emails) - is successful she would be on the hook for another 2 months rent. That, or wait two months until she lists the place... I'm not sure which I should do.
4) File grievance for some bills she never paid - not a huge deal but I may as well start being a pain in the *** too.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

It's these kind of people who give landlords a bad name. They don't treat it as a business. That being said, I agree that who would want to live in a place that treats you like this. A good, professional landlord treats good tenants like gold. There are many of them out there, but you need to find the ones who don't rely on the rental income to help pay their own bills...those ones tend to see tenants as their ATM machines.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Fifth choice (maybe it's gone too far at this point, but for completeness): Sit down with landlady, lay the cards on the table, indicate that you will fight this (and probably win), and use that stick to negotiate something you can both live with.

What was she using for a laundry room before? Maybe all you have to do is convince her that this will cost more than repairing her own laundry will cost.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

The apartment below us has been vacant for the last two years. Prior to that the tenent living there did not have access to the laundry room (hence in our lease it does not specify shared laundry). Now she wants to move in and she feels entitled to things outside the lease and this is the problem. 

We tried to be reasonable. She has an ex boyfriend that is currently on a retraining order. Because of this potential for violence, I offered her access to the laundry facilities one day per week during hours that we were out of the house. See that I have a young son and I occasionally work late I didn't think this was unreasonable. Plus we've allowed her to store things in the basement which she took FULL advantage of because she was renoing the basement and we thought we'd try to be good neighbours. 

Anyway, all round sucks.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

none said:


> Really though, do we want to live in a house where a person who has keys to the place doesn't want us there?


This is really the crux of the matter. It seems like a peaceful, trusting living arrangement will not be achievable no matter the outcome of the laundry room. And since she is clearly kicking you out in bad faith then I would try and extract as much money from her as possible in compensation.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Those are my thoughts too.

My wife disagrees - she just wants to walk away from it all. Personally, when someone makes my wife cry, wastes a crapload of my time (by moving), particularly after us putting so much work into the rental (my wife probably has a couple hundred hours and and about $400 invested in the garden). Anyway, I'm taking this as a personal affront and I would like my pound of flesh (monetarily speaking)

Anyway, I'm chaulking it up to a temporary hobby to take my landlord to the cleaners.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

That's no fun. Good thing those hours spent in the garden are a labour of love and provide a good healthy hobby, can't take that away. 

I think you are making the right move, no need to escalate the problem, get what you can and move on.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I think it's a balance. She is currently storing a lot of things in our basement. We could tell he to take it all out to be a pain in the *** but that seems petty. I am however, going to go after 50% of the hydro for the last 2.5 years. We've been sucking up the bill because her apartment was empty. No clause, however, in the lease that says we pay 100% in the event that the basement is empty. Anyway, we'll see how that goes.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Seems pretty flakey to me to leave an apartment empty for two years.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

She was a bit of an odd duck. She left it empty because apparently her past tenant trashed the place before leaving and I don't think she could afford the reno (that had to go through dispute resolution as well). I agree, to give up 2 years of lost rent on a unit worth about $800+ a month is a little odd. I think she's a little financially strapped (house poor at least b/c the house is worth about 650K) and not great at math so we chalked it up to that. Anyway, it's her experience with that and her complaining about how people can abuse rental laws surprised me by this. 

As far as us going for additional damages: Seems like a pretty douchey thing on our part to say - you owe us $1500 for 2 years of hydro while the apartment was vacant but those are the terms of the lease but honestly I don't very much feel like doing her any favours at this point. That, and I'm going after her for a portion of the gas bill. Last week I found a vent going from our furnace into the basement apartment - which apparently we've been heating for the last 2 years. I'm not really sure yet how to work up on math on that - maybe proportional area of out take pipes? I'm not sure but I have no issue with going after that.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Legally, you might be out of luck on the hydro.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Yeah maybe but it'll take me an hour to come up with an estimate and filing is only $50 and the worst they can say is nope.

Edit: Unfortunately the landlady has all of the power bills. Does anyone know the 'base charge' (i.e. the amount you get charged per month regardless of power use) in Victoria BC? I'm guessing it's probably around $30.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

none said:


> Edit: Unfortunately the landlady has all of the power bills. Does anyone know the 'base charge' (i.e. the amount you get charged per month regardless of power use) in Victoria BC? I'm guessing it's probably around $30.


should be able to get that online or with a call to the utility supplier . . .


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Cut your losses and get out of there. It sounds like it will be a blessing in disguise.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks Mall Guy: Bc hydro only charges $0.15 a day - crazy cheap! If that's the case then it's not worth my time.

Of course the lease says I'm only responsible for 50% of the utilities with no clause of how much the basement apartment is being used. Maybe they had the hot water dripping all this time? Who knows...... :love-struck:


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Well I did it. After ensuring my old landlord payed me all the cash she owed me I reported her for operating an illegal suite. 

I still haven't decided whether to sue her for unpaid bills but I have a couple years to do that so I'll decide when I have more time.

It's nice to have mostly closure.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Let it go. You've got a place now that you think is great. You got what you wanted financially. You're getting the revenge that you sought. Move on with your life.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I am done. The only reason it wouldn't be is if she decides to rent our old place in the near future. If she does, she would owe me ~$5000 and it would be a no-brainer piece of paper to fill out. I'm not going to pass that up.

I've decided to not bother reporting her to the CRA though - that seemed a little petty.

The illegal suite suffered from some safety issues so I don't feel too bad about that.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Illegal or not you asked to rent it. No one was holding a gun on your head. No wonder there is such a hostility on wealthy landowners... this reminds me of Cultural Revolution in China, wealthy landlords = evil. Unfortunately 99% will always win those 1%. 

So go ahead with your 'revenge' and report it. During the Revolution, some Chinese children reported their parents as anti-Mao capitalists. Guess what? These poor parents got executed by the Red Army for being nice to their own children.. what a horror, all in the name of evil capitalism, alas.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

^ WOW ^ there's some melodrama for you. Nice one. I already reported it.

She is far from wealthy. Indeed, I don't see how she could possibly make this suite legal at all because the house would need to be lifted about 8 inches (or floor dug out (which were just newly laid down)).

And this is not for the place we rented which was completely legal. It was for the basement suite that has some safety deficiencies. By doing this I may be saving someone's life! Who knows.

Those safety guidelines are there for a reason. If she's going to cheat the system she needs to consider that she may be caught for cheating.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MoreMiles, the unit is a safety hazard. I imagine you also are cheering enterprising drug dealers and loan sharks for providing services to willing consumers, and any effort to report their illegal activity is tantamount to class warfare.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

none said:


> Those safety guidelines are there for a reason. If she's going to cheat the system she needs to consider that she may be caught for cheating.


Except you only reported after you feel you were mistreated so don't give me that 'safety concern'... you obviously did it out of spite to revenge. Would it not be the case you could have reported after seeing it without renting it. Enough said.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Hmm.... safety concerns or spite.....


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Also, reading comprehension fail: it was a different unit in the same property.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

none said:


> I am done. The only reason it wouldn't be is if she decides to rent our old place in the near future. If she does, she would owe me ~$5000 and it would be a no-brainer piece of paper to fill out. I'm not going to pass that up.
> 
> I've decided to not bother reporting her to the CRA though - that seemed a little petty.
> 
> The illegal suite suffered from some safety issues so I don't feel too bad about that.


Sounds reasonable. Good luck with the new spot.


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## PoolAndRapid (Dec 3, 2013)

From a Victoria Housing Blog:



> Blogger None said...
> So I think a past tenant of mine just reported me for operating an illegal suite. What's going to happen? Yes, the suite is illegal, it's nice and newly renovated but the ceilings are about 6'5 and it doensn't have full house smoke detectors.
> 
> Any advice?
> ...


So an hour after your post here, a person with the exact same handle, in the exact same city posts about being reported to the authorities for the same infraction. Are you waging this war with yourself or is this just coincidence? It's entertaining I suppose


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I basically wanted to get some feedback and I thought that approach may bring on less vitriol. Seemed to have worked <kinda>.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

none said:


> I basically wanted to get some feedback and I thought that approach may bring on less vitriol. Seemed to have worked <kinda>.


Good catch PoolAndRapid.

None, you aren't coming clean here. You aren't done. This is eating you up and you're desperately searching for more ammo. Who are you trying to fool?

:hopelessness: :rolleyes2:


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

I think the OP is a tenant from hell. Who in the the world goes to solicit revenge plan under a false persona. OMG that is just wicked. I think people are starting to have less sympathy for for the OP now. Also if the OP brings the landlord to court, it is equally bad to lie under oath and to defame someone under false identity.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

You're not under oath on the internet, and the OP was not defaming (libeling, actually) anybody, because he does not identify his landlord. This is pretty basic...


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Maybe you come across better in "real life" none, but based on your online persona, you are one of the CMF'ers I'd have no desire to ever meet.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

I know. Not illegal yet but unethical nonetheless.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's not necessarily what I would do, but I think the LL in question needed to get a reality check about her responsibilities as a LL. She should not be in the business.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

noone, you need a hobby. This is a classic cry for help.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Sometimes I look at the big picture and think, "is it worth it?" 

I had an issue/person bother me so much, it caused a lot of greif and unhappiness. I forgave that person (and they are still wrong), but this helped the bitterness go away inside. Result was to let it go a live happy, to focus on what matters most. 

Best book I read for communication was Verbal Judo. This will help you improve your cooperation in the most difficult situations, even when the other person is wrong. The end result could be you both work together (like a partnership) instead of fighting and raging vengance.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^very wise approach. I have done the same thing after a long and bitter law suit.


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

"Living well is the best revenge" - George Herbert

(ok, it isn't much 'revenge' but you will be a much happier person for doing so - why tie your own happiness and satisfaction to the misery of someone who wronged you?)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

wondering why this thread doesn't get deleted, just like its more vindictive mate from the same OP.

the 2nd thread had a charming death threat for a title. Throwing ex-Landlord Under the Bus.

it was so full of hatred the moderators had to delete the entire thread.

seems the OP didn't get the memo though.


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

MRT said:


> "Living well is the best revenge" - George Herbert
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Wise words, indeed. As a sidebar note, who would have thought two metaphysical poets would be quoted on the same day on CMF, Andrew Marvell on another thread, and now George Herbert. And perhaps another thought from Rector George for the OP - "Who is so deaf as he that will not hear?"


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> wondering why this thread doesn't get deleted, just like its more vindictive mate from the same OP.
> 
> the 2nd thread had a charming death threat for a title. Throwing ex-Landlord Under the Bus.
> 
> ...


You raise some good points indeed.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Throwing under the bus is always used as a figure of speech. It is not reasonable or fair to portray that as a credible death threat. Perhaps that is too much to expect.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I just have to say that I do deal with tenants like this on a regular basis. It's true that some places are not fully legal suites or don't comply and some are maintenance nightmares but the facts are that no one is forced to rent any apartment or even continue to live there for years. One of my favourite ploys is the tenant who is renting a place full full of deadly toxic mold who brings in a picture of discoloured caulking and a spot of surface mold. I even have one tenant who had a burned out bulb he wanted to changed in his front light and claimed it was a broken fixture. I had another lady who's fridge stopped working, but she had moved the dial. I had another with a burned out fuse in his stove etc. 

These people each want money off the rent for inconvenience but life isn't a rose garden and the landlord doesn't have to provide you with a life without any disappointment or inconvenience while we fix things. I was even talking to a real estate agent a while back and he said that he was amazed at the list of demands and expectations that tenants had compared to potential homeowners.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

Lots of leech tenants out there. My own experience with renting out what was originally purchased with intention to be an investment and our retirement residence in BC has been enlightening. Like the tenant that had my property manager get the central vacuum unit replaced. I never did understand why the whole unit ended up being replaced, as opposed to the motor. Then I end up finding out from a handyman later, who had done some maintenance work for us, that the tenant had actually driven into the unit in the garage and wrecked it!! Why is it that renter's seem to think everything is the landlord's problem ? and it's ok to rip off the property owner ? There have been several other delights as well, enough that I won't purchase any other property unless I can manage it myself.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

There are a lot of leech tenants but there are also a lot of unqualified scummy landords - and that's what I had. To recap:
1) We were model tenants, always paid rent ontime, put in about $500 worth of upgrades to the house (install auto thermostat, landscaping, general repairs)
2) She decides to move into the basement apartment after 2 years
3) She wants to change the terms of our lease to have unrestricted access to our house - we said only one day per week when I was assured to be home that night as she has a historyy of having violent partners and currently had a restraining order against one.
4) that wasn't good enough so she kicked us out using the 'landlord use' clause of the BCtenancy act
5) She did this over Christmas so instead of having any time off we were spent our holiday time looking for a place to live & moving etc.
6) I'm justifiably pissed because she abused the tenancy act to evict us illegally 
7) She has moved back into the place but put the illegal suite up for rent - which I reported.

Plus side about her being a stupid is that she paid us $500 more than she was required to for our damage deposit. If she was a decent landlord and didn't show us such tremendous disrespect I wouldn't have hesitated to return it. Now? I'd rather spend it on booze and hookers thanks.

Anyway, for every bad tenant I have no doubt that there is about as many band landlords.

As for the 'death threat' of throwing someone under the bus.... Whu? You what potato?


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## Westerly (Dec 26, 2010)

Without passing any judgements here, my worst nightmare tenants have not been the ones that don't pay rent or damage the place. I can mitigate these problems. My nightmares have been the ones that are emotionally unstable, irrational, and develop some sense of ownership rights. One red flag for me is a prospective tenant that talks about being handy and offering to fix xyz.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

none said:


> There are a lot of leech tenants but there are also a lot of unqualified scummy landords - and that's what I had. To recap:
> 1) We were model tenants, always paid rent ontime, put in about $500 worth of upgrades to the house (install auto thermostat, landscaping, general repairs)
> 2) She decides to move into the basement apartment after 2 years
> 3) She wants to change the terms of our lease to have unrestricted access to our house - we said only one day per week when I was assured to be home that night as she has a historyy of having violent partners and currently had a restraining order against one.
> ...


You are mixing emotions here. it does not matter if it is Christmas Hanaka or Chinese New Year. it does not matter if her partner is abusive to her. None of those had anything to do with you. You just said those to justify your actions. i agree with the above poster, who cares if you did minor maintenace without being asked. Tenants who brag about it are usually red flags.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I think you missed the point. The point was that we were exemplary tenants, took great care if her place, did her numerous favours by allowing her to store things in our basement and we were always accommodating. 

Once she wanted to be able to enter our residence via the laundry suite whenever she wished (while having a restraining order) was the first time we said no. At that time (which was around Christmas) was when she decided to evict us. After all the favours we did for her we felt quite betrayed hence the bitterness.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Sounds like she moved into the basement herself while you were renting the house ?Then because she wanted to do her laundry any day of the week she decided to take over her house herself and evict you?It would be worst if she did not move in the house but sounds like she needed the house herself and looks like timing was bad but with proper notice she can do it.Was basement part of the deal in your rent or does this house have two basement areas?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I think marina is one of the few that actually read the thread. Yes, we lived upstairs and the basement suite was vacant until she moved in.

The lease explicating said we had full use of the small basement - it was not shared. We did, however, allowed her to store things in the basement (some furniture & files) simply because we were being good people about it. Then when she decided to move into the basement apartment that's when she decided that she wanted to amend our lease to give her full access to the basement (and by extension our home) whenever she wanted. Because she had a restraining order against someone and were advised to call the police if we ever saw him AND I have a 3 year old I was only able to offer her access to the house one day per week when I was sure I would be coming home with my family (I work late). This wasn't enough for her so besides what we felt was extremely accommodating behaviour on our part in the past she decided to abuse the 'landlord use' clause of the BC tenancy act to evict us. We could have disuputed it an undoubtedly won but we didn't because who wants to live above a crazy person.

The general comments from our neighbours were they were surprised something like this hadn't happened sooner as she is one of those crappy landlords. The only reason there hadn't been issues before was because she hadn't been living there. Anyway, renters beware, not all landlords are NOT insane.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Yes I understand what is being said but the landlord obviously had a change in her living situation ,assume she was living with the person she had the restraining order on and maybe even had a chance in her financial situation so she needed a place to live.Probably if you let her use the laundry she would have stayed as it was now she is living in the house ,maybe retrofit the basement which was good enough for her to live in at one point and now needs help to pay the bills.
I think mult-unit homes are just asking for disaster ,our agent always sends us homes with basement suites to look at for investment but I don't look because finding two sets of strangers to live under same roof is difficult to do.
I do understand your safety concerns as well and do not know anything about BC laws but in Ontario if I wanted to sell my home and move into one of my rentals with proper notice I can do so.Revenge gets you nowhere just lost time , I believe in Karma and what goes around comes around so maybe you need to just be happy for what you have and let this person alone.I expect if they went in and ended all illegal basement apartments in Canada there will be many homeless people .There are some dumps out there on kijiji etc that I would not put my daughter's cat but some people are happy to have a place to lay their head.Report her to municipality if you must ,let them do a fire check and that's the end of it .


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Okay, I've read not only this thread, but the other, now deleted thread. While none may sound a little rational here, on the other one he went right off the deep end in my opinion and let his venom flow freely. I admit, as a landlord, when I first read this thread, I'd considered renting to none...but after reading his second thread, I feel glad that I dodged a bullet. 

Many of you also don't know this, but this "sane" person also went on a different board and posed as the landlord who'd been reported for running an illegal suite, to find more ammunition for his vengeance...most of the thread has been deleted. I suppose my definition of unstable may be different than others... My only regret is I didn't get to see the kijiji ad he posted for a potential new residence until the ad had been deleted, so that I could warn his future landlord.

I'd advise people to just ignore this thread and let it die.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

^ what are you taking about?

I would very much like this thread to die. I will only update it to defend myself or if I end up suing my ex-landlady if she rents the place out or puts it up for sale.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

go away none


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

My last post to this thread...

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7123542260692860177&postID=1449738383466738872


February 5, 2014 at 1:19 PM
None said...
So I think a past tenant of mine just reported me for operating an illegal suite. What's going to happen? Yes, the suite is illegal, it's nice and newly renovated but the ceilings are about 6'5 and it doensn't have full house smoke detectors.

Any advice?

February 5, 2014 at 1:21 PM
Comment deleted
This comment has been removed by the author.




February 5, 2014 at 1:57 PM
None said...
I want to rent this place. They sound like awesome and low hassle landlords:


http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/apa/4320679042.html


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Comment #33 potato.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> go away none


+1

This is so wicked. He even posted a fake ad on Craigslist to induce people renting from his ex-landlord so he can then sue her? What's next? Trying to make up other traps for her at her home and work to get that person into troubles. This is a tenant from hell beyond hopeless. 

I agree with Humble here, go away none!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Wait... I posted a fake ad now? Jesus, who's writing this narrative???


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