# TFSA Investment Returns



## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

This year seems to be much different for returns in my TFSA. My only holding of approx $55k in the Mawer Balanced Fund - MAW104 is about is 3.55% Nothing to jump up and down about but better than a lost. I do auto purchases each week of $100 and usually top out the account towards the end of the year. Any comments on this strategy, won't be using money for a few years at the earliest.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Oops, got this one totally wrong lol.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Ihatetaxes said:


> kids under 10


Confused the heck out of me until I realised you are talking RESP, not TFSA.

My TFSA, as with everything else, has been slow this year. I have it about half in XQB, which has been hit by the interest rate change, and half in dividends which have paid ~3%. Overall YTD, according to TDDI, is about 0.7%. I generally add the full amount in Jan when trading starts again and go straight into the established mix of ZDV, VDY and XQB.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

_"Confused the heck out of me until I realised you are talking RESP, not TFSA."_

whew! me too...


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

Speaking of TFSA's, it would be interesting to do a survey of the balances of those who have used the maximum yearly contribution and reinvested since inception, with no withdrawls. Maybe too much information? I hold RY, ENF, PPL, NPI and AQN and have been very pleased with the tax free income rolling in along with the capital appreciation. I invest the accumulated divvies and add it to my annual contribution every January.

Reason for last edit: Added NPI missed on original post.


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## hboy54 (Sep 16, 2016)

Hi:

I have no idea what is the recent TFSA return. Even the whole portfolio, I can only tell you that, depending on the day, it ranges between a few percent up to a few percent down.

I am however quite aware of the long term average return.

Many can say that equities are for the long term. Few actually behave as if they believe this fundamental fact and can work with it instead of against it.

Hboy54


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

It is a TFSA, i have never owned or had a RESP.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Dilbert said:


> it would be interesting to do a survey of the balances of those who have used the maximum yearly contribution and reinvested since inception, with no withdrawls


I fit the bill. Don't have TDDI open right at the minute, but its right around $64K.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

newfoundlander61 said:


> This year seems to be much different for returns in my TFSA. My only holding of approx $55k in the Mawer Balanced Fund - MAW104 is about is 3.55% Nothing to jump up and down about but better than a lost. I do auto purchases each week of $100 and usually top out the account towards the end of the year. Any comments on this strategy, won't be using money for a few years at the earliest.


 ... assuming you have contributed since inception 2009, $55K/$52K is more than 3.55% simple growth. It's approx. 5.8% so you're doing better than the 3.55% published.

For those who have a bigger TFSA balance, it's most likely they have invested in stocks.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

newfoundlander61 said:


> This year seems to be much different for returns in my TFSA. My only holding of approx $55k in the Mawer Balanced Fund - MAW104 is about is 3.55% Nothing to jump up and down about but better than a lost.


3.55% year to date is a fine return. MAW104 could even decline 15% in a year, and that _would still_ be within normal.

Are you comfortable with the amount of equity exposure in your investment? Fluctuations are normal. You can always shift more money into high interest savings accounts or GICs to reduce your exposure to stock fluctuations.

Use the Morningstar web site and the "growth of $10,000" screen to look at what would have happened to your investment over 2007-2010. These things can absolutely decline in the short term.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Dilbert said:


> Speaking of TFSA's, it would be interesting to do a survey of the balances of those who have used the maximum yearly contribution and reinvested since inception, with no withdrawls. Maybe too much information? I hold RY, ENF, PPL and AQN and have been very pleased with the tax free income rolling in along with the capital appreciation. I invest the accumulated divvies and add it to my annual contribution every January.


I've always used it as a retirement account. Just north of $72k. No withdrawals and don't plan to for the next 20-30 years. Will kill RRSP first, then non-reg. second before TFSA. 

I like those stocks


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

I am fortunate to have bought a bunch of RY in the early-TFSA days, so I'm sitting at just over $81K right now. It has moved as far as a little over $84K, but the TSX performance hasn't been stellar this year!


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Dilbert said:


> I am fortunate to have bought a bunch of RY in the early-TFSA days, so I'm sitting at just over $81K right now. It has moved as far as a little over $84K, but the TSX performance hasn't been stellar this year!


I'm in a similar situation Dilbert. RY has done well and been happy with that - yours higher than mine. 
I looked to diversify some holdings by buying US equities (ETF) - but - reality is that in the past 6 months (Spring 2017), the S&P 500 had gone up 5.4%, but the effect of the rising Cdn $ in that 6 month time period had reversed the gain to produce a -7% loss.
I've been getting an education/schooling on the effect of currency exchanges on portfolios.
YTD TSX is -0.75%, S&P 500 +11.6%.


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## canew90 (Jul 13, 2016)

Invested the max and mine is about $85k my wife's $88k. Nice part is they are both generating nearly $4k annually in dividends


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

canew90 said:


> Invested the max and mine is about $85k my wife's $88k. Nice part is they are both generating nearly $4k annually in dividends


+1, good for you. My wife reached six figures plus with some gold penny stuff, but now she's down to~60K.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

canew90 said:


> Invested the max and mine is about $85k my wife's $88k. Nice part is they are both generating nearly $4k annually in dividends


+1 Sweet tax-free divis


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

_Negative_ 3% annualized over 6 years....

Can I retire now? :biggrin-new:


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## tombiosis (Dec 18, 2010)

peterk said:


> _Negative_ 3% annualized over 6 years....
> 
> Can I retire now? :biggrin-new:


Sitting around 62.5k, but I took a flyer or two along the way hoping for a 10 bagger...needless to say I learned my lesson. I should be up more. I wish they would put the limit back to 10k!


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

I made only $550 in the first five years (2009-2013) even though I maxed out my TFSA on every single year. This is how the banked fucked average Joe. In Jul/Aug of 2013, I read on Financial Post that some guy made $169k whereas average Joe's made around $38K in their TFSA...WTF? That was an eye opening for me. I started to learn about investing, opened a brokerage account and spend a lot of time to read about investing.

The value of my TFSA is around $62.6k and since inception return is 5.75% or $9.6k (2013-2017). I only buy ZAG and ZRE in my TFSA and also set up DRIP.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

I can't believe the amount of people I talk to who either don't know what a TFSA is, or they just think it's a bank savings account!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

tombiosis said:


> Sitting around 62.5k...


Me too. Pretty conservative mix.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

newfoundlander61 said:


> It is a TFSA, I have never owned or had a RESP.


If you have kids or grandkids under 17 yo, the additional allowed $14k per child is almost like a TFSA. The earnings can be paid to the child and taxed in their hands.


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## snowbird (Jun 14, 2012)

Sitting at $67K, all Cdn equities including 1 bad decision stock down 80%, otherwise, it'd be at $72


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## wibblydick (Oct 4, 2017)

I'm at $94,432.41 CDN

Holding:


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## wibblydick (Oct 4, 2017)

wibblydick said:


> I'm at $94,432.41 CDN
> 
> Holding:


Excuse the finger trouble,

Holding:

NORTHVIEW APARTMENT REAL EST I
TRANSCDA CORP
UNILEVER PLC SPONSORED ADR
MORNEAU SHEPELL
NESTLE SA-SPONSORED ADR REPSTG
NOVARTIS AG AMN DEPOSITARY SHA
ILLUMINA
ROGERS COMMUNICATIONS CL B NON


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

scorpion_ca said:


> I made only $550 in the first five years (2009-2013) even though I maxed out my TFSA on every single year. This is how the banked fucked average Joe ...


Depends on who picked the investment in the TFSA as well as whether there was any misrepresentation/arm twisting. Different choices for what to buy as well as their growth potential will change the picture.

In any case, learning then seeing one can do better is one thing. Blaming others for one's knowledge and past choices seems a waste of energy to me.




scorpion_ca said:


> ... In Jul/Aug of 2013, I read on Financial Post that some guy made $169k whereas average Joe's made around $38K in their TFSA...WTF?


I suspect it's FMV of the TFSA, not what was made.

Others do similarly well in taxable accounts where I don't begrudge them their wins. They typically are in areas I can't keep up with or don't have the info for. I am happy to stick to slow steady growth as well as moving temporarily down investments into the TFSA to pay minimal capital gains.




Dilbert said:


> I can't believe the amount of people I talk to who either don't know what a TFSA is, or they just think it's a bank savings account!


Mixed reaction to this one ... I also don't understand why people don't learn more of the financial basics but based on the people I talk to/interact with, there's lots of examples that fit this.


Cheers


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

My 100% TD TFSA since inception just reached 100k today. Despite brain cramped and panic, sold all first thing in one morning for $48+ many moons ago. Lucky for me that I came to my senses and bought back at $52 after 2 weeks. That %$#@! transition set me back a few $$$ :{
Looking forward for the quarterly report tomorrow !


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Mine sits at 62K. I wasted a lot of years letting the funds sit in Peoples Trust when they had their 3% deal on. Now it is in utilities and REITs. DW is 70K. Hers is just in T and PWF. I doubt I'll ever catch up.I have nagged my business partner for years to open a TFSA. He didn't bother until this year because "under 50K it wasn't worth the hassle"You can lead a horse to water but ...........


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## wibblydick (Oct 4, 2017)

Benting said:


> My 100% TD TFSA since inception just reached 100k today. Despite brain cramped and panic, sold all first thing in one morning for $48+ many moons ago. Lucky for me that I came to my senses and bought back at $52 after 2 weeks. That %$#@! transition set me back a few $$$ :{
> Looking forward for the quarterly report tomorrow !


Nice, so what are you holding in your TFSA now? Bit coin futures possibly?


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

wife has $98k, while min is abut $94k presently.

For most years it has been etf's/ index mf's before the etf's. 

Mine has been in us small cap value, and international non us. Best move was rebalancing and bought 5k of lumenpulse that went private 3 days later and almost doubled my money.

Wife a few years ago put 6k into FM when they were trading at $3.25, and sold a bunch out about 8 months later at $15.

Now she has a few more diversified stocks. ARE was one, and bought at $13, and now less than a year later it looks like it will be a go private at over $20


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Impressive some folks are close to $100k tax-free...well done!! I want to catch up! Currently at $75k.

Now the question is to the forum - what you are buying inside the TFSA in 2018?

Thinking a mix of ENB and AQN myself.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Just hit 67k in the TFSA this year, not bad considering started using it at mid 2015. full contribution each year. Can't wait for next year already have 5500 for the next contribution.

Also, I might add BNS or Rogers .


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

wibblydick said:


> Nice, so what are you holding in your TFSA now? Bit coin futures possibly?


All TD, dripped. Will add more in the beginning of the year as usual. The question is whether I should get it before or after the ex-date (Jan 9).


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

My Own Advisor said:


> Impressive some folks are close to $100k tax-free...well done!! I want to catch up! Currently at $75k.
> 
> Now the question is to the forum - what you are buying inside the TFSA in 2018?
> 
> Thinking a mix of ENB and AQN myself.


I’m back to $87K. more ENB or ENF maybe in Q1 2018.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

what you are buying inside the TFSA in 2018?

Pondering a japan specific etf. A weekend Globe article made an interesting thesis that Japan might be on the beginning of an upswing in an economic cycle.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Here is a thread on the topic ... http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/126026-Buying-what-for-2018-TFSA


Cheers


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

I have read a few outlooks for 2018. Many feel the US market is overpriced now after a great run and are underweigt for 2018. The best markets they recommended were:

Europe
Far East
Emerging markets (for a small % , riskier)

Interest rates rising too likely in many countries so some assets that benefit are: Financials , rate reset Preferred stock. Some sectors -vely effected : Long bonds, utilities, industrials, real estate, perpetual preferreds.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

In the early days of our TFSA, I was mostly a couch potato and fully a couch potato in our TFSAs.

Suffice to say, the yields were pretty low. Back when we were in e-series funds, two years were slight losses.

Now that we are mostly in dividend producing equities, we have done pretty well. I spent two years reading and studying equity valuations. We aren't as high as some of the folks approaching $100K but the two TFSAs combined distribute enough money to move the needle on the retirement meter.

I can't help but think the TFSA is a huge tax concession by the federal government. I love it and appreciate the reduced tax load but it has to hurt the bottom line of these spend happy sailors.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Depends on the breakdown IMO ... most I talk to have it in cash or are avoiding using the TFSA as "what's the point of making 0.95% tax free?"

Those here that are broadening their investment choices may be the exception.

Then too, where one reduces or skips the RRSP to fund the TFSA, tax refunds are also reduced or skipped.


Cheers


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The really sad thing is that people buy a TFSA at an institution as if that is an investment without regard to what they have invested in.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

kcowan said:


> The really sad thing is that people buy a TFSA at an institution as if that is an investment without regard to what they have invested in.


I worked at a financial institution in the 1990s that sold "RRSPs". It involved giving customers a large, orange, certificate that looked somewhat official but the actual investment was a minimal paying, perpetual bond that was held in an account cited on the certificate.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

By the way, I share the view that people should know what they are holding and in what type of account. Any investment as genericised as that, is undoubtedly designed for the uneducated.

I bought one of those "RRSPs", way back in the day. It was super convenient, being at my place of work. Three years later, I transferred the money to Greenline (before TD bought them) and operated a GIC ladder for several years while I focused on real estate.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I passed the 100k mark a few months ago...usual suspects...RY,BCE,CWB, and TD. (Am I diversified?)


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Eder said:


> I passed the 100k mark a few months ago...usual suspects...RY,BCE,CWB, and TD. (Am I diversified?)


Nope. To Western and Central focused. Add bank of Nova Scotia to maximize your geographical diversification...


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

kcowan said:


> The really sad thing is that people buy a TFSA at an institution as if that is an investment without regard to what they have invested in.


 ... but no sadder than some of the institutional folks that sell the investments so you can't really blame the clients getting wrong information in the first place:



> *Quote Originally Posted by AltaRed*
> Lordy...the ignorance of some institutional folk is downright scary. ....


http://http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/126034-Investing-With-TFSA


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## canew90 (Jul 13, 2016)

Eder said:


> I passed the 100k mark a few months ago...usual suspects...RY,BCE,CWB, and TD. (Am I diversified?)


Solid companies with great DG histories, can't go wrong with them. Who says you have to be diversified? We hold much the same with BCE, BNS, IPL, FTS and NA and I'm now at $93k (with $4100 annual dividends) and wife is $97k (with $4400 div's).


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Eder said:


> I passed the 100k mark a few months ago...usual suspects...RY,BCE,CWB, and TD. (Am I diversified?)


Diversification is overhyped ???


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Eder said:


> I passed the 100k mark a few months ago...usual suspects...RY,BCE,CWB, and TD. (Am I diversified?)


Who cares but you - well done


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Benting said:


> Diversification is overhyped ???


Yes. History has shown big gains can come from the right concentration of equities at the right time vs. broad diversification for the sake of diversification.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I should probably put more focus on the TFSA's as the income in them is only a bit over $1k. The self directed RRSP's are the most conservative with an ETF mix producing about $12k/yr. I spend the bulk of my time with the non-reg portfolio where I have a larger investment with a lot more holdings but it produces about $42-45k/yr. I am still reinvesting it all at the moment.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Benting said:


> Diversification is overhyped ???


I think you need to be comfortable with the amount of diversification you choose. Conventional wisdom would require several ETF's for me to diversify this account but if you follow Peter Lynch or early Buffet my TSFA account might contain too many stocks.


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## canew90 (Jul 13, 2016)

Eder said:


> I think you need to be comfortable with the amount of diversification you choose. Conventional wisdom would require several ETF's for me to diversify this account but if you follow Peter Lynch or early Buffet my TSFA account might contain too many stocks.


Each to their own and if they wish only ETF's good. Personally, we don't own any etf's, bonds or preferreds, just individual DG stocks. In fact we are down to 14 holdings in all our accounts (2 TFSA, 2 RRIF and Joint). Definitely what most would consider Not Diversified and probably High Risk, but all are Large, well established companies and have a long history of paying and raising their dividend.

I'm extremely happy with my holdings and the income they provide. We'll see how they hold up during the next downturn or crash, as well as how the etf's do. I believe my holdings do better than the etf's and my annual income will not drop.


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Eder said:


> I think you need to be comfortable with the amount of diversification you choose. Conventional wisdom would require several ETF's for me to diversify this account but if you follow Peter Lynch or early Buffet my TSFA account might contain too many stocks.


Hahaha, you're talking to the wrong guy. I like money but cheap. No MF or ETF because of the management fee I need to pay. Peter who ? Heard of Buffer's name lots of time. Guess he is kind of investment God. I never have any interest reading all the investment strategies. The only name I know is David Chilton. I read half of his 'wealthy barber'. Gave up half way and wanted to do something more interested to me.
Anyway, I have invested more that 20 yrs based on kiSS (simple, stupid, senile, stubborn ...... SINGLE SECTOR) portfolio and doing ok so far. Good thing is I do not need to spend time on diversification and allocation like most of the people suggested. Use my time doing some other things I am interested.

Happy New Year !!!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Benting said:


> I have invested more that 20 yrs based on kiSS (simple, stupid, senile, stubborn ...... SINGLE SECTOR) portfolio and doing ok so far. Good thing is I do not need to spend time on diversification and allocation like most of the people suggested. Use my time doing some other things I am interested.


What is your single sector of choice? Banks?


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Yes.


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