# My situation. Future vehicle/life. Advice appreciated.



## Boilermaker (Jun 12, 2017)

Hello everyone. Hope your day is going well.  I need financial advice from your personal experiences. I've only started to build my self worth in the last 6 years so its not much but its a humble start. I am a 31 year old Journeymen Boilermaker. With girlfriend that grosses $30,000 per year. No kids for us in next decade. I have a fluctuating yearly income. I work for multiple different companies per year(5-10) through my Union. I could work 8 weeks of 7 day, 12 hr shifts and have 2 months off following collecting $500 a week EI(repay 30% at end of year). If I use my union as a loan reference they stat my yearly income is $80,000(based on 40hr work week) but this does not properly reflect my recent actual income which varies as follows...

*YTD Gross Income:*(not including girlfriend)
2007-2012: $45,000-$80,000
2013 & 2014: $70,000
2015: $110,000
2016: $170,000
2017: $70,000 as of now, on track for $130,000

*Assets*
1. Condo: Bank values @ $165,000 but would sell in current market for $200,000+. 
2. Car: $5,000 @ 285,000km
3. Chequing Account: $16,000
4. TFSA: $5500
5. RRSP Mutual Fund: $3,500
6. Pension: $150,000 through my union. 
7. Credit Card Dividend: $1,200 per year credit back.
8. Income Tax Average: $7,000 per year 

*Mortgage*
$87,000 remains @ 2.29% over 23yrs. Matures in 3yrs. Valued at $165,000 by bank.

*Debt/Liabilities/Expenses*
1. Mortgage Payment: $550 - monthly
2. Condo Fee: $200 - monthly
3. Home Bills: $550 - monthly
4. Groceries: $800 - monthly
5. Car Insurance: $120 - monthly
6. Gas: $150-$500 - monthly (depends if working)
7. Vehicle Maintenance: $350 - monthly (near $4,000 per year)
Total: $2870 per month, roughly

*Credit Available*(I owe $0)
1. Home Equity Line of Credit: $45,000 - 2.7%
2. Unsecured Line of Credit : $20,000 - 6.45%
3. Visa Dividend: $12,000 - 20% - (1-4% cash back as credit)
4. Visa Classic: $10,500 - 14%
Total Available: $87,500

*Net Worth*
$105,000(assumed house sells for only $165,000)

I'm looking to get a new vehicle some time this year. My current one has been good for the last 7 1/2 years but it's getting older @ 285,000km. I work around all around the province, putting on 50,000km per year, I need to keep a reliable vehicle or risk losing a $500-$1000 per day in downtime. *Problem is the vehicle I want costs $140,000 after tax...*

Is it too early in life for me to get my dream vehicle? Anyone able to help me plan out best way to use Loans/My LoC/Dealer Financing? A bit over 800 credit score at the moment. My on/off/multiple company per year work life makes it a bit different to apply for things. Can banks look at YTD T4 slips instead of constant bi-weekly paychecks most of the world gets? Or else I have to wait until I get a steadier contract and claim i work full-time for them, which has worked in the past but I don't like doing so. Can my pension be used in any way to help secure a good loan? I don't think it was mentioned when I applied for my mortgage which I should've used to my advantage?

I will make sacrifices and will trim my current monthly expenses a bit in order to achieve my dream vehicle in the near future. The the GF is now debt free and looking to take over $600 per month in bills. Car maintenance cost will go down slightly for a few years while new and under warranty. I plan on researching through these forums on how I can increase tax refunds, I currently just submit and don't know anything about what i am entitled too...

Thank you for reading. Opinions welcomed.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

What will a dream vehicle do for your commute around the province. I know trashing a great ride on commuting would kill me.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

What vehicle is 140k? Just curious. I love cars too.

But in my opinion, to have a car on payments that's worth more than your entire net worth... is financial suicide


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Indeed. A $140k vehicle is way over the top. There should be nothing wrong with a Camry or Accord or similar going 500,000km over its life with regular oil changes. Get a 'premium' level vehicle for $45-50k and you are set for 7-10 years.

There is a lot of time to get into a 'dream' vehicle when net worth has tripled or more. You will enjoy it a lot more then.....when you will (and have to) spend extras on parts and service...and extras like detailing, etc.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

I understand the draw of a dream vehicle but 140K does seem excessive at this stage in life. There are many excellent vehicles available for less than one-third of the price that will get you around in relative luxury. 

Can you postpone the dream vehicle until you have paid off your mortgage?


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I would guess a dream vehicle at 140K is a jacked up F250 or similar. Yes, they really do cost that much.

The rest of your numbers are great. You can continue on your great path and get something reliable and inexpensive to operate and insure. Or you can get the truck and become just another tradesman to be a slave to their motor toys.

Get a sedan or small SUV that is comfortable for long drives, safe, and super reliable. There are dozens available new for under 32K. 50K a year isn't obscene.

Not to mention, you'd still have to borrow something like 120K to purchase the vehicle. Imagine what the payments would be on that. Even at 100K/yr income you'd never be able to afford it.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Welcome to CMF. Good post, the background info certainly helps people provide more useful (hopefully) responses.

What longer term goals do you & partner have? Do you just work and spend it, any desire to become financially independent or retire from work early. etc.?

I notice that you have very little saved - $16K, plus $5.5k in tsfa and $3.5k in rrsp.

I'd encourage you to think a bit along these lines before you spend so much money on 4 wheels. They may be a dream but they will cost you dearly if you have any other financial ambitions.


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## lagagnon (Apr 13, 2017)

You still have an 87K mortgage and you also want a depreciating $140K vehicle? Sorry to be blunt but you're living in la-la land.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Banks is gonna love you. Little net worth and going to go all in on the dumbest purchase of your life.

You could drive 3 normal cars for 10 years each for the same price. Boy the marketing is sure working these days.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Boilermaker said:


> A - Is it too early in life for me to get my dream vehicle?
> 
> B - Anyone able to help me plan out best way to use Loans/My LoC/Dealer Financing? A bit over 800 credit score at the moment. My on/off/multiple company per year work life makes it a bit different to apply for things.
> 
> ...


A. Welcome to forum, I think you will get similar responses, don't do it. It is too earlier for you to get your dram vehicle. It's worth more than than your networth. Ask yourself, wild you sell your home to have the vehicle? You would say I'll own op ones even if it sells for more because of realtor fees. Sorry, based on your income, saving and net worth, €140k vehicle doesn't make sense. 

B. If you are hell bent in financing the vehicle, then take out all the equity out of you home. Not a sound financial decision but at least you get a lower rate. 

C. Have you calculated if you can afford the loan on $140k at 3%. Even at the maximum of 72 months for most banks, you are looking at over $2000 a month for payments. For the months you are on EI, this is more than your EI payment, 4 times your current mortgage payment. When I entered the loan amount in calculators, banks don't even go past $100k. Only dealerships. This just doesn't make sense any way you look at it. You need a steady contract for 6 years. 

D. Your pensions is not touchable for a car loan. It cannot be used as collateral. 

E. I suggest make a lot of sacrifices now. You need to free up at least another $1500 a month AFTER factoring your Gf $600. Don't forget your onsureance will not be $120 a month for a $140k truck. Try saving up the money or at least half, and then see if you want to spend your hard earned cash when the money is in the bank.

F. Car maintenance down, insurance up, gas up, also don't forget depreciation, even if you flat line it, do you currently spend $24k a year on maintence. That's how much your payments are. You can get a new vehicle for that amount. 

G. My opinion is this is an aweful idea. I would get a reliable vehicle for as little as possible. Save the difference in loan payments between the cheaper vehicle and your dream vehicle. Save the difference and when this less expensive vehicle dies, then see where you are at that point financially.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

nobleea said:


> I would guess a dream vehicle at 140K is a jacked up F250 or similar. Yes, they really do cost that much.
> 
> The rest of your numbers are great. You can continue on your great path and get something reliable and inexpensive to operate and insure. Or you can get the truck and become just another tradesman to be a slave to their motor toys.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

Borrowing $120K to buy a depreciating asset seems crazy to me. As per suggestions above, temper expectations now, buy cheaper cars in your 30s and 40s, so in your 50s you can have some toys if you really want (and can afford it).


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Just curious - since you travel so much for work do you get compensated for travel expences, and/or is any travel expense a tax deduction? 
Even so, the 140,000 vehicule probably doesn't make money sense.


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## canew90 (Jul 13, 2016)

Have you considered that putting on that many miles on your new car will depreciate it to nothing in a few years, or it will take the travelling? As long as you putting on that many miles, stick with good, cheap and dependable vehicles. That way it won't matter how many miles you put on or what they will be worth when you need to replace them

Buy your $140k car later, when you can afford it and you'll know it will retain its value (though all cars depreciate about 20% per year).

Notice you only have $5k in your TFSA. I'd start adding much more to it till you max it out, then you may have tax free dollars to buy your dream car.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

My Own Advisor said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Borrowing $120K to buy a depreciating asset seems crazy to me. As per suggestions above, temper expectations now, buy cheaper cars in your 30s and 40s, so in your 50s you can have some toys if you really want (and can afford it).


Hopefully the OP is hearing the common theme over and over again and taking notice. There are many, especially cost effective Japanese (and other) vehicles that will deliver 50,000km per year for 10 years. Especially the V6 ones that don't have to work quite as hard with heavy footed drivers. My current Japanese luxury vehicle is 11 yrs old and I have no intentions of parting with it for the foreseeable future. It is still my 'go to' vehicle for highway touring.

Added: Not to promote any particular vehicle, but if the OP is looking for something sporty with handling and horsepower, something like an Infiniti Q50 is a pleasure to drive and doesn't break the bank.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

.

others have said their say about the truck. But me i feel the rest of your financial profile is also a bit worrisome.

for the last 3 years you indicate you've earned more than $100k. For the last 5 years you've earned more than $70k. Yet you have no savings to speak of. Plus your lifestyle is super-frugal - you get a gold star for that. Other than dreaming about the truck monsta, there's no waste anywhere (assuming the food budget is for 2 persons per month.)

which begs the question, Where have you been spending the money? how did so many dollars arrive in your hands via 5 years of paycheques & then simply vanish?

given only the past 5 years, by now you could be the proud owner of roughly $100k in invested savings, with a maxed-out TFSA plus other investments in either an RRSP or a non-registered account.

fortunately it's not too late. In fact the timing is perfect. 

if it were myself going forward, i'd buy a $50k truck or cheaper. I'd also rush the maximum contribution into TFSA asap. I'd find out if the company pension limits RRSP contributions & then i'd start planning an RRSP account. I'd study up on investing. 

in addition, i would not include an anticipated credit card rebate as an asset. Neither would i include an anticipated tax refund as an asset. Instead, get your employer's HR to rejig/reduce your income tax contributions at source, then use those extra funds that will be paid directly to you as TFSA or RRSP contributions.

if i really wanted to burnish my halo, i'd encourage the gf to study investing & start saving for her own financial independence as well. I'd encourage her to open a TFSA. I'd encourage her to the point of using some of that anticipated $600 contribution to household expenses to fund at least the startup of her own personal TFSA instead.


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

Hi, welcome to CMF.

Congrats for having no debt other than a small mortgage.

Great that you asked about the purchase before doing it.It's clear you will be hit with massive depreciation on car value with 50,000 km per year. Others have stated the issues with such large purchase (waste).

_____

I think your list of expenses is incomplete. No travel? No gifts? No cellphone? No entertainment? Did you track all your expenses including stuff paid $$$ ?

As said by humble_pie, something does not add up between your stated income, your expenses and your assets.

To have $1,200 in credit card rewards per year, you must spend around $60,000 on credit card (2% rewards?)... how much of that is paid per work ?


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

As others have recently stated something seems amiss between your spending/income and assets. With that kind of income you should be able to save a significant amount and/or pay off debt a rapid rate.

Forget about the dream vehicle whatever the heck costs that much that you want to plow lots of miles on for work. A vehicle that costs as much as your condo and much more than your net worth...... for a depreciating asset? This isn't a hard decision to make. Plus what business would want an employee driving up to a job site or possibly having customers seeing that $$$$ ride and wondering about why they're paying so much for the work you're doing? Buy a good newer used vehicle for under $20K. 

With the money you've been making the last 4 years or so why do you have 23 years remaining and only make tiny mortgage payments? Pay that thing off in the next 3 years before you have to renew at higher rates. 

How are income taxes an asset? 

Kudos for posting up here and taking an interest in your finances. G/L with the decisions.


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## Boilermaker (Jun 12, 2017)

Thank you for the quick multiple, detailed responses everyone.

I will try to answer orderlyish. But yes I will be foregoing the purchase of my dream *car* for a little bit(12+ months) due to your responses. Not sure where a jacked up truck came from, its a MY17 Nissan GTR that i've been looking at to keep as a 10 year+ vehicle.

I'm sure I could afford a 7 year loan, there is even an option to skip 2 payments per year, which helps when i'm on EI. But it would set me back for my next goal which is a better small house with garage and no condo fee's and rules. Currently yes my home was quick assessed @ 165k but similar, clone units right beside me are selling 200-230k. The reason my mortgage is stretched out to 23 years was because 6 month ago i renewed from a more aggressive amortization, and made it stretch out because i was in line for an 85k car(not truck lol) and deal ended up flopping due to the dealership not getting allocation(maybe it was for the best!). Wanted the mortgage payments low with option of 45k+ Line of Credit to fund some of that vehicle.

I wasn't able to save up much during my good recent years because(I should've been more frugal yes) 1: Helping family out financially(mother). 2: Paid off 30k condo upgrade loan. 3: Paying for the slow years when i was an apprentice making lower wage and having to still travel for work. I bought the condo 6 years ago when i was stuck with a rate of (4.7%) and now (2.29%). 

The CC reward is $1,200 for every $40,000 spent roughly, $100 annual card fee. Its 4% gas/groceries, 2%timmies/telus, 1% everything else. Yes I count rewards towards income, its dependable and guarunteed by VISA. 5k In a TFSA/RRSP gets me $60 a year currently *insert sad trumpet sound*. Income tax sometimes hits near 9k. I work for a ton of different companies my CPP gets filled and reset so many times. Drawback i have to pay EI 30% back, or it'd be near 10k returns every year. I will look into the HR rejig/reduce option. I don't even know if I should have an RRSP because of how it will work when drawing my main pension...

I get paid tax free board money on far jobs and taxed travel on closer jobs. Example: they pay me $750 tax free to drive to Thunder Bay(1,400km away, ea way) and $120 tax free a day for hotel/food. Can i stll claim any maintenance(tires/brakes/oil or gas? 

I don't travel/vacation other then my job. I put our cellphone payments under bills. I did not list luxury expenses(new mattress/car upgrades/night at movies etc) but everything pretty much goes through my credit card so it's kind of tracked, useful for income tax proof?

Thank you for the quality responses! I will be delaying this purchase and working hard to reduce my spending and stay on track to make my target YTD. Hopefully next spring might be a better time to re-evaluate. I know it urks a lot of people here, spending such a big amount for GTR when an accord makes more financial sense. I do want something nice in my early 30's so GTR is still in my sights, further now then before i posted this thread. Thanks again for the insight.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

You ID some things that you need to do.

Still think I would buy small inexpensive car to pound up and down the road. And the Nissan for more fun stuff. Don't listen to the deprecating asset. I'm a firm believer in enjoyment well we are be financially responsible.

Tidy up a few things and keep up the good work.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Interestingly enough AR, starting to look for a new(er) car now. My 17-year-old Mazda is slowly dying. Pretty attached to my beater, it has served me very, very well - not only getting me from A to Z but saving thousands of dollars in car expenses over the years - all of it now into a fully funded TFSA and RRSP 

I am considering a Japanese or Korean (KIA) car with <50,000 km in the 2-4 year old range. Would love to be able to pay cash for it so trying to save $15K between now and next summer. 

Our other car is a KIA and is 6-years-old and paid off. We hope to own that for another 10 years. It would be nice to have a decade without car payments. 

I certainly won't be buying a $120K car but that's just me. I guess I'm too cheap.

@Boilermaker - good luck with your decision. I can appreciate your desire to have a nice ride but I suspect you'll be far wealthier in the years to come if you delay this gratification now. You'll have a chance to buy your dream car if you continue to rid yourself of debt and save and invest wisely in the decade or so ahead. Just my $0.02!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Boilermaker said:


> ... i was in line for an 85k car(not truck lol) and deal ended up flopping due to the dealership not getting allocation(maybe it was for the best!) ...
> 
> I will be delaying this purchase and working hard to reduce my spending and stay on track to make my target YTD ... I do want something nice in my early 30's so GTR is still in my sights, further now then before i posted this thread.




boilermaker you can see how well the great spirit is looking after you.

first she caused the first monsta car deal to flop. Then she whispered that maybe the old phartz in cmf forum might have some suggestions about how to obtain the vehicle of your dreams & she guided you here, except that all the old phartz said Ixnay.

me i think the idea of owning The Car when you will be somewhere around Level 3 in the lifetime financial plan but still in your 30s - presently you're at Level 2 - is fantastic. I like that it's a pleasure car, not a work truck. The best argument against the gold-plated work truck was presented by the poster upthread who said Think how your boss will feel when you pull up at a job site driving this luxurious truck, right in front of his paying customers who are all still driving ford.

re *sad trumpet sound for $60 in TFSA* the idea would be to get the maximum $52 grand into a TFSA asap. A no-brainer would be to start up a TFSA at tangerine, the online bank, which is presently paying something like 2.40% for new accounts. This would pay just over $100 per month with no income tax ever. Not to be sneezed at.

for starters perhaps contribute that $16k from chequing into TFSA. You'd want to start replenishing the chequing account, but with the kind of income you can earn plus the economy of still driving old car, you should be able to save at least $2k per month, no?

another possibility might be to migrate the credit card to one of the companies that charges no interest for the first year. This could give you flexibility with cash, at least for 10 months. However it might be difficult to do since you are receiving top rewards with your present card setup, there might not be any equivalent with same benefits plus zero interest for the first year.

lastly, i do still question the inclusion of any kind of anticipated income stream in any inventory of assets. Assets usually mean capital assets that can be sold. Many persons do not even include their vehicles among assets. Some include their homes, but at original cost, not at anticipated market value.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Boilermaker said:


> Thank you for the quality responses! I will be delaying this purchase and working hard to reduce my spending and stay on track to make my target YTD. Hopefully next spring might be a better time to re-evaluate. I know it urks a lot of people here, spending such a big amount for GTR when an accord makes more financial sense. I do want something nice in my early 30's so GTR is still in my sights, further now then before i posted this thread. Thanks again for the insight.


Personally, I think you will be disappointed spending that kind of money on a car you will not have any real oppotunity to feel its performance (except on the track). I've looked at them myself on occasion (and others such as a Porsche Carrera 911 - my preferred choice). 

That said, I'd still put off that purchase for 5+ years until your mortgage is paid off and both your TFSA and RRSP are fully funded. You will enjoy that expensive toy a lot more when the 'homefront' financial plan is taken care of first. You don't need mortgage and car payments either. Indeed, if I couldn't pay cash for an expensive toy, I would not buy it.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

Boilermaker said:


> Not sure where a jacked up truck came from, *its a MY17 Nissan GTR* that i've been looking at to keep as a 10 year+ vehicle.


Oh... this changes everything    

Haha... ok maybe not. Amazing car though!! Have you considered a slightly older one? Performance is still right there, only a slight drop off in HP and some new tech features, but a 2013 GTR for example could be found for as low as 90k. Not saying I'd recommend buying a 90k car either though...


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## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

I could never fathom buying a car that's worth nearly as much as the house I live in. Even if I ignore the financial suicide, the constant worry about the security of the car alone is enough to make me think twice.

Boilermaker, the GTR is a marvelous car for the track, and Nürburgring, but have you thought about how well it does in the snow on that 2800 KMs to Thunder Bay and back?

I get the fact you want to enjoy your money, and reward yourself for making it to a journeyman, but geez you really need some time to collect your thoughts. Never ever try to show off your money, or try to keep up with the Joneses, it won't end well. If I was in your shoes, I'd eliminate all of my debt first, then buy the bigger house you want. Get a great commuter car, and treat myself to a cheaper toy. Like a crotch rocket that'll eat the GTR for lunch, at a fraction of the cost. I'd then start buying a couple of rental properties, and let those tenants buy my GTR 10 or 15 years down the road, guilt free, and a million or two in assets.

You have time and a good income on your side. Your only enemy, is yourself and the financial decisions you're gonna make in the next few years.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

Here is a thought. Why not build a portfolio that generates enough income to make the GTR payments? Then you'll always have the capital later...just my 2 cents worth.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Dilbert said:


> Here is a thought. Why not build a portfolio that generates enough income to make the GTR payments? Then you'll always have the capital later...just my 2 cents worth.


This is a fantastic idea. It's a win win in that you work hard at saving, will have a sizeable portfolio (probably 500K ish), won't have to worry about qualifying for a loan, don't have to worry about making the car payments, and will have a nice portfolio when the car is paid off. Not sure how dividend income would affect EI.


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

Great car, but wow that is a lot compared to your salary and your net worth. I mean it's your life but you really have to have it as your one and only priority given your lifestyle. I couldn't imagine giving up all my vacations, and everything else in my life just for a car.

Also you said no children for 10 years? Are you actually planning to have kids? Because if you are, I would really think twice about waiting ten years to do it. Health, energy, etc. I think 30 is a much better time to have kids than 40.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

I wouldn't in a tfsa.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

nobleea said:


> This is a fantastic idea. It's a win win in that you work hard at saving, will have a sizeable portfolio (probably 500K ish), won't have to worry about qualifying for a loan, don't have to worry about making the car payments, and will have a nice portfolio when the car is paid off. Not sure how dividend income would affect EI.


Yeah, but I would go for a 911S.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Dilbert said:


> Yeah, but I would go for a 911S.


A Porsche 911 4S is where I'd start...and likely land. I do like the idea that if one does not have the cash to buy outright, then have enough investment income AT to make the payments. At the very least, it puts such a costly toy into a better balance with other net worth.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Guys... this thread is killing me. Two Stingrays and a Camaro SS in my condo parking garage. A Z06 down the street. Two big straightaways right outside my house. The Z06 sounds magical.

Just need to make it through the summer without doing something foolish... it's hard.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

CalgaryPotato said:


> Also you said no children for 10 years? Are you actually planning to have kids? Because if you are, I would really think twice about waiting ten years to do it. Health, energy, etc. I think 30 is a much better time to have kids than 40.


That is certainly the off-the-shelf standard advice. Have 'em while you are young. Iconoclast that I am, I say that I think 50 is a much better time than 30. In that regard, I followed in my father's footsteps. 

I know the modern view is that most humans these days are made-in-China junk incarate, worn out and useless by age 40, hence the bleak warning about "health, energy", etc. being but a fond memory at that age.

But for us older models with a bit of staying power, 50 is a great time to start with kids. Mortgage long paid off. Retirement funding wholly secured, or nearly so. No more career, financial or other such goals distracting one from dedicating oneself to family. Sufficient wherewithal that allows for one parent (if not both) to be a stay-at-home parent, which in my old school way of thinking, is a superior form of parenting.

I know I became much fitter and healthier at around 50 than at 30. More time then to focus on self. Earlier, focus tends to be on making money, on achieving success, on impressing the boss, or clients, or leapfrogging over colleagues, building one's book of business, or whatever. In my early working years the term in the circles in which I travelled was "promoting". To succeed at that, one was expected to join a political party, a country club, a charitable organization, a service club or two and to get out there and see and be seen and recognized as someone worth knowing and doing business with. By the time you are 50, either you have made it or you have not. Either way, now you can relax and focus on family and not feel guilty about it.

Most of the 30-somethings I see with young kids are no doubt destined to be worn out and relegated to the charnel pit by age 50. Both are working. Up early, rush kids through traffic to daycare, reverse the process at day's end. Both are trying to climb the corporate ladder and are putting in the gruelling hours required. They are heavy into "promoting" or its equivalent. They are often heavy in debt. Some (but not so many), at the same time are trying to come to grips with vexing questions about investing, retirement funding. Not much if that is conducive to really getting to know and spending time with kids.

I never witnessed any shortage of "energy" in my father, who had more than 50 years on me. He was an intrepid outdoorsman, and it's because of our times in the wilds that I now live off-the-grid in the kind of place he taught me to appreciate. He was 77 when we last hunted moose together, a 10-day hunt of camping, hiking, canoeing, portaging. He could manage what most 30-year-old fathers working in the city could not.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

A vehicle is something to get me, my family and my junk from point A to point b in the cheapest most reliable way. I can accomplish that with a $35k vehicle. I have never paid more than that for that depreciating asset in my life and I never will. Some people will never know what utility of money is and they will always be poor.

For $140k, you could buy a normal F150 truck, a good SUV ($35k) and a couple of recreational vehicles to enjoy yourself.

Or you can ride around alone in your sports car worrying about how big your genitals are.


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## tavogl (Oct 1, 2014)

tygrus said:


> Or you can ride around alone in your sports car worrying about how big your genitals are.


Wow...


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

tavogl said:


> Wow...


Wasnt directed at the OP. Directed at people in general who feel the need to compensate for something.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Getting back to the OP, I can't quite imagine driving a $140k vehicle in Ontario winters. The sand and grit and salt is brutal....and those wide tires won't keep the car on a slippery road. A $140k car is a bare pavement car. The fellow retirees around us here in our neighbourhood keep their sports machines garaged a good part of our 3 winter months.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Dilbert said:


> Here is a thought. Why not build a portfolio that generates enough income to make the GTR payments? Then you'll always have the capital later...just my 2 cents worth.


+1 This is a good way to know you can afford a sports car  Let the income from your capital make your car payments.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

saving the $$ from paycheques to build an investment portfolio big enough to support the payments on a $140k luxury car will take 20 years.

the problem is that the OP said he wants to drive that car now, in his early 30s.

re the warnings on maintenance. costs. rust. salt. country. roads. thunder. bay. kids. nokids. age-related. declining. reproductive. capability. 

is this really any of our business though. We have not seen a single hint that this OP is causing any harm to anyone, or ever will cause any harm.

.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

None of our business but they are reality checks for someone who does not appear to be at all pragmatic about desire vs common sense. C'est la vie.


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## tiffbou2 (Jul 4, 2013)

This thread has made me feel badly for my husband! He's in a similar situation where he has to drive a lot around the province for work, and often has to haul some equipment, and I gave him grief last year for using $30K of a HELOC to finance a 2-year old truck...and he gets $32K a year in a vehicle allowance to be able to do so. To each his own, but that much debt for a vehicle scares me. One stipulation we have is to stay well ahead of the depreciation with our payments. If something unforeseen happened, like a job loss or illness, we'd be able to sell it, pay off the loan, and get by on our one vehicle that's paid for (plus my killer road bike). You always think that next paycheque is coming...until it doesn't. I know it sounds like you've got the next 10 years of life mapped out, but life is nothing if unpredictable, right? A 7-year, $140K loan would really hamstring your choices. Personally, my wants, needs, and life situation have greatly changed from the age of 30 to 40. Good luck with your decisions!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> None of our business but they are reality checks for someone who does not appear to be at all pragmatic about desire vs common sense. C'est la vie.




it's true (judgment call although none of my business really) that he's not pragmatic.

but then, he's not even our kid. Why should we expect someone else's kid to be pragmatic.

as a matter of fact (judgment call again) the only person in the story who seems to be slightly neglected is the gf. IDK, is any gf here getting the kind of love & attention that a mate would normally deserve ... each:


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> as a matter of fact (judgment call again) the only person in the story who seems to be slightly neglected is the gf. IDK, is any gf here getting the kind of love & attention that a mate would normally deserve ... each:


I wondered about that since the first post but we don't know the arrangment of household contribution, etc. and no explanation was offered. However, if I was the gf, I would have run, not walked, from a relationship where personal financial stability, growth and wellbeing came second or third or fourth to some stupid high depreciating toy that could be wrapped around a pole or sandblasted by Ontario's winter grit. I wil bite my tongue from saying more.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

Maybe we should ask the mods if a sticky can be posted in whatever subforum makes sense: "Do NOT come to CMF and ask if you should buy dream vehicle before your financial house is in order!".

Of course, I am of the mindset that cars can be very enjoyable, yet a $60k car isn't necessarily twice as fun as a $30k car. Until my recent purchase, I never spent more than $30k on a car and have kept them all for at least 10 years (the last one I just sold after 15 years).

My last purchase was $50k after all taxes and surcharges but with 0% financing over 7 years. It represents about a couple of percent of our NW. I wanted to go top of the line in terms of trim level because I wanted the best safety features I could buy - that also meant it came with all of the creature comforts I also desired. Knowing that we would put on less than 15km per year and would hold onto this for probably 12-15 years, I don't feel hypocritical with this purchase.

So, yes, for the OP, this is probably one of the most extreme examples of bad financial management when it comes to vehicle purchases I've seen over the years. That being said, if a person is going to spend that much time in their vehicle, then I certainly understand wanting to really enjoy and feel comfortable in it. There are practical limits, or course.

However, once you have finished accelerating and are up to speed, just how much fun is it being in a sports car vs. any other vehicle? I'm not a car nut, but I would imagine a Subara WRX STi, a BMW M4, or even the upcoming Ram 1500 SRT HellCat might be enjoyable and less expensive choices.

What I think would be a prudent plan of action, since the OP is putting off this purchase for awhile, is to figure out what the monthly payments would be and start putting aside that money right now (in a separate account whether it's a registered account or a savings account) so that one "feels the pain" of having that much less money to handle day to day living. And, if it is NOT invested, then one can try to imagine the amount of money that is sinking into the abyss vs whatever else discretionary income is left for investing in RRSPs, TFSAs, paying down debt, etc. 

Once a year has passed, then the OP (and I believe this tactic is worthwhile in similar situations) will have a better feel for the impact such an expensive financial decision will have.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

janus10 said:


> My last purchase was $50k after all taxes and surcharges but with 0% financing over 7 years.  It represents about a couple of percent of our NW. I wanted to go top of the line in terms of trim level because I wanted the best safety features I could buy - that also meant it came with all of the creature comforts I also desired. Knowing that we would put on less than 15km per year and would hold onto this for probably 12-15 years, I don't feel hypocritical with this purchase.


My underlined part...is the key message/theme in most all posts. Precisely where my head was at 11 yrs ago when I bought my first luxury vehicle. Maybe even 5-10% of net worth could be 'justified' for a highly depreciating asset (most people might fall in that range). The OP needs to put this all into perspective.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> My underlined part...is the key message/theme in most all posts. Precisely where my head was at 11 yrs ago when I bought my first luxury vehicle. Maybe even 5-10% of net worth could be 'justified' for a highly depreciating asset (most people might fall in that range). The OP needs to put this all into perspective.


I agree, but I also would say it depends on where one is in life. About a year out of university, I received a very large raise from my first employer. So, instead of taking the bus to work and renting a car (paid for by my employer) when I needed to do work out of town, I decided to get my first vehicle. That represented more than 100% of my NW at that time! 

For my daughter, she was smarter - she supported the idea of buying a good used vehicle and not starting off with a new vehicle lease. I think if she had been exposed to a brand new vehicle, with nice creature comforts, it would be hard to "go backwards" when the lease is up and get something used. She might get stuck into that cellphone mentality - upgrade, upgrade, upgrade every 2-3 years.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

janus10 said:


> I agree, but I also would say it depends on where one is in life. About a year out of university, I received a very large raise from my first employer. So, instead of taking the bus to work and renting a car (paid for by my employer) when I needed to do work out of town, I decided to get my first vehicle. That represented more than 100% of my NW at that time!


For sure...when one is starting out, that is going to be the case... as it was for me (bought a 10 yr old beater). The OP is 31 years old though.


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## Emjay85 (Nov 9, 2014)

janus10 said:


> What I think would be a prudent plan of action, since the OP is putting off this purchase for awhile, is to figure out what the monthly payments would be and start putting aside that money right now (in a separate account whether it's a registered account or a savings account) so that one "feels the pain" of having that much less money to handle day to day living. And, if it is NOT invested, then one can try to imagine the amount of money that is sinking into the abyss vs whatever else discretionary income is left for investing in RRSPs, TFSAs, paying down debt, etc.
> 
> Once a year has passed, then the OP (and I believe this tactic is worthwhile in similar situations) will have a better feel for the impact such an expensive financial decision will have.


Not to mention a realistic down payment, that isn't a line of credit or all the cash left in his bank account.


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

Contrary to many people, at least he asked before doing it, and is now delaying the project a little. Congrats for that.

I still don't understand how he was able to spend all his income (especially $170,000 in 2016). 

Track where your money is going, each $, and you will know if you can afford the car. I would give you a challenge: max out your TFSA and RRSP.

When they are maxed out... well it's a good first step


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

I love the Skyline/GT-R lineage. 

When I got my first "real" job, I spent $25k on a used turbo AWD car. I really enjoyed it tinkering with it, upgrading parts, etc. It was fun car to drive. 
However, the repairs slowly but surely got more regular and more expensive. In the end, the timing belt went and that was the last straw. I ended up selling it to another enthusiast who was more keen than I to put in the effort and dollars to bring it back to life. I didn't buy a replacement vehicle and instead started to just carpool with my wife and share her car, supplemented with a membership two a couple of the car sharing services in Vancouver. Overall being a single car couple works for us with the occasional hiccup. But being able to throw more money at savings instead of supporting a second car is a great feeling. 

I have mixed feelings about my turbo awd car. It was great being young and having such a fun car to drive. But I can't help to think about how much money I threw at it in terms of repairs and upgrades versus where my investments would be now if the more of the money went to savings instead. Everyone's got to make their own choices but a little bit of balance doesn't hurt.


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

Am I the only one that thinks somethings wrong when a guy making north of $100k for the past few years is dipping into EI payments while considering a supercar as a commuter? I mean I love cars and all but with numbers like yours boilerman you could be finished working in a few years, instead of making the last few multi thousand dollar a month car payments. There are plenty of toy owning high earner no savers around these parts, it's their choice and all but yikes.


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## JWC (Nov 6, 2014)

So when I was younger and dumber I did exactly this ($100k 2015 brand new fully loaded 1 ton truck, 10" Lift, etc) and used it for work putting lots of km on it, about 100,000 km a year. two years later I sold it for $32k and I got more than it was worth. It needed a new transmission, ECM and rear end. I never kept track of how much money I put into repairs but it was also very high, one month was 10k in front end work, then 2 months later (20,000 km) I had to do some of it again at the cost of another $2k.(that's just one example) This was the finally straw, I sold that truck and bought a new truck($80k, fully loaded, brand new) and left it stock. Ran that truck for 3 years, 250,000 km and only had one repair(wheel bearing) that happened while still under warranty. I was also buying my wife/family vehicles new, I was full stupid back then, making over $100k a year take home and living pay cheque to pay cheque, saving next to nothing.

These days I'm slightly smarter with how I do things. I buy used mid trim level trucks ~2 years old with low kms for ~$50K, run them 2-3 years and sell for $25-30k. On average repairs are less than $1k/year.

Think about if you want to pay for that much depreciation? Is it worth that much to you to have that truck? Are you wanting to impress people? You will impress some people for sure but the people that have a clue will look at that truck and think... that guys being really dumb with his money...


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## JWC (Nov 6, 2014)

JWC said:


> ($100k 2015 brand new fully loaded 1 ton truck, 10" Lift, etc)


Just noticed a mistake I made and it won't let me edit it.

Should read 2005 truck, not 2015.


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## motl (Mar 3, 2014)

banjopete said:


> Am I the only one that thinks somethings wrong when a guy making north of $100k for the past few years is dipping into EI payments while considering a supercar as a commuter? I mean I love cars and all but with numbers like yours boilerman you could be finished working in a few years, instead of making the last few multi thousand dollar a month car payments. There are plenty of toy owning high earner no savers around these parts, it's their choice and all but yikes.


You're not the only one.

When I started reading the post and saw the salary I expected the guy to have built up a decent net worth and was now considering a big purchase and weighing options. OP has less than $10k in tax-sheltered accounts. Spending is clearly an issue. Home bills and groceries seem excessive for 2 people. I'm not trying to be critical, but that's the only real explanation. And buying a $140,000 vehicle just feeds more into the spending problem/habit. Not to mention throwing away money on the financing/LoC to buy an expensive depreciating asset.

OP will do what he wants, but I think it should be clear to anyone that this is a bad idea and very poor use of income. Basically, OP knows deep down that it's a poor decision but is hoping someone here will reassure/convince him to go ahead anyway. 

OP remember this is a FINANCIAL decision, not an EMOTIONAL decision. Applying the latter to the former is how people end up over-leveraged and/or in debt with plenty of toys to keep them busy.


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