# Negotiating Goals



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

It's come time to think about replacing one of our cars. I was wondering, as a % what's your goal in negotiating? 5% below asking price? 10%? Is there a level to shoot for?

I like a good haggle, but I'm no fan of the drag out entrenched fight. As an example, we got out house for 92% of asking price over two days of talks, and I thought that was pretty good. Talking to others, they're protracted discussions went on for weeks, and they managed to get theirs for 87%.

What is a good threshold to shoot for?


----------



## YYC (Nov 12, 2012)

I don't see how you can have a predetermined goal. It all depends what price the item is listed at relative to the market. If they're way too high, then you could conceivably negotiate a far high % off.


----------



## Video_Frank (Aug 2, 2013)

I bought a car recently using Car Cost Canada - 1.5% above cost, $1000 cash back, 0% financing. No haggling, no pressure.


----------



## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

I jokingly offered a guy 25% of his asking price for an item in Thailand. He accepted. I overpaid.


----------



## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

We used Car Cost Canada as well. Their report showed what the dealer's cost was, what incentives were available - we also got 1.5% above cost. Very easy,


----------



## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

The answer to this question really depends on what you're buying. For example, on a base model lower end 2014 vehicle, don't expect to get a lot off. If you're buying a more expensive vehicle, particularly a model above the base or you're buying a used or past model year, you can expect to negotiate a lot more off.

In my experience, you can negotiate a few thousand off the asking price, with other major factors being your choice of financing/cash or if you have a trade.

I'm far from a professional negotiator (actually that is what I do, but not for cars!)...anyhow, I've found that once you get them to their bottom line, there's usually about another $1,000 you can get from them. 

Purely based on my experience only, but I use their monthly payment numbers against them...if they say it's 416/month for 60 months, I'll then say my final monthly payment everything in (always be careful they don't put any ac taxes, registration, etc on afterwards) to have a deal is $400. You use the "it's only $16/month" against them knowing full well it's worth $1000 to you. Last one I bought I used their other trick against them - they always say they need to speak to the manager and will work on your behalf. I told them my wife said not a dollar more than the payment we wanted.


----------



## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

crazyjackcsa said:


> It's come time to think about replacing one of our cars. I was wondering, as a % what's your goal in negotiating? 5% below asking price? 10%? Is there a level to shoot for?
> 
> I like a good haggle, but I'm no fan of the drag out entrenched fight. As an example, we got out house for 92% of asking price over two days of talks, and I thought that was pretty good. Talking to others, they're protracted discussions went on for weeks, and they managed to get theirs for 87%.
> 
> What is a good threshold to shoot for?


Most people will not sell you at a price below their cost of acquiring it. If you import a product from China at $5, would you sell it for $3 assuming you are not in clearance for closing the store? 

Same thing with the car... you need to find out how much your dealer has paid for it, and be reasonable for their profit.

I am pretty sure you don't work for free. You cannot expect your vendor to work for free either. So most people will let them make 1.5%, which is $450 for a $30,000. As you can see, they don't make a lot.

Unlike a real estate agent, they can make $100,000 in one sale if the house is worth $5 million like downtown condo or commercial units.


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I guess what I'm asking is: "At what point do you feel like you've made a good deal?" Since I'm looking at used cars, it's harder to figure what a dealer may have paid. In essence, I'm trying to estimate their mark up.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

It's been my experience that you cannot win at this game. This is what dealers do all day long. They can figure you out in 30 seconds. There are more factors than just their selling price, such as what they'll offer for your trade, if you like dealing with them, how competetively priced is the model you want as compared to other places selling the same thing, willing to resolve problems after sale etc. If northernguy is getting "a few thousand" off the price then he needs to go into business full time buying cars for people. I don't know anyone getting such amounts knocked off the price. Dealers are not stupid and cars are in very high demand. Record sales almost every month/year.


----------



## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think the only way to play this is bring a blank cheque and mean business(and don't ***** foot-you need the full amt though for purchase).What i know about dealerships is.No financing,no leasing,cold hard cash and skip the junior lot salesman and go to the top of who ever oversees the dealership,these tactics will likely put you in a good spot to get a decent percentage off compared to the standard car buyer at a dealership.
I also agree you have a better shot being more successful dealing with a private seller who is not in the business of being experience dealing with haggling and have the play book right down to a science(body language ect)


----------



## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

crazyjackcsa said:


> I guess what I'm asking is: "At what point do you feel like you've made a good deal?" Since I'm looking at used cars, it's harder to figure what a dealer may have paid. In essence, I'm trying to estimate their mark up.


A successful negotiation is usually achieved when both parties get out of the deal what they want. In this case, you need to research the specific vehicle you want and determine what you think is a fair price before you go in to buy it. As others noted, there are tools out there (eg Car Cost Canada) that can help you determine what the mark-up is for the particular make/model you're considering. You can then use that to determine what you're willing to pay.

You will have made a good deal when you feel you've gotten the vehicle for a fair price. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. To be honest, there's not a huge mark-up on vehicles these days anyway, so you're not goint to get totally fleeced either way. Be careful to avoid the many add ons they may try to sell you as they tend to be pure profit for the dealers.


----------



## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

Easy. Don't pay anything over 20% msrp. You are getting screwed financially and practically if you do,so. If your ego must have a higher price, then who cares what the % is...



crazyjackcsa said:


> It's come time to think about replacing one of our cars. I was wondering, as a % what's your goal in negotiating? 5% below asking price? 10%? Is there a level to shoot for?
> 
> I like a good haggle, but I'm no fan of the drag out entrenched fight. As an example, we got out house for 92% of asking price over two days of talks, and I thought that was pretty good. Talking to others, they're protracted discussions went on for weeks, and they managed to get theirs for 87%.
> 
> What is a good threshold to shoot for?


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Figured I should bring the thread to a conclusion. Purchased a new used vehicle Monday. 2011 Jeep Patriot. 50,000km, 2.4L Manual tranny, zero options.

Dealer is asking 12k. I send an email offer in of 9k. I figure it's a lowball offer, and he'll come back at something like 11.5. He fires back at 10k. Sold.

It happened over a matter of 10 minutes through email. So that's 20% below asking. I figure I could maybe have hit him a little harder, but I was surprised at how much he was willing to come down so quickly.

All told, pretty happy with the deal.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

That's amazing that you were able to get such a reduction. I have never been good at that.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> If northernguy is getting "a few thousand" off the price then he needs to go into business full time buying cars for people. I don't know anyone getting such amounts knocked off the price. Dealers are not stupid and cars are in very high demand. Record sales almost every month/year.


I hate to break it to you, but this is called segmentation. Dealers have a high markup on the expectation of negotiating down. They do this because there are bad negotiators or people who don't care to negotiate that will pay the elevated asking price. This is exactly what the telcos do, ratcheting up monthly charges until you squawk, then giving you a 12 month discount to keep your business. Same as with mail-in rebates. This is all about sorting the price-sensitive from those who are not so concerned about price or not very savvy shoppers.


----------



## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

My dad worked at a dealership. Used cars can be almost pure profit for dealers. When a customer trades in their car for say $3000, that's really just $3000 off the sticker price of the new car. The dealer is probably still breaking even, and basically getting a free $3000 car. Then they turn around and stick a $5000 price tag on the trade-in vehicle, hoping some clueless shmuck will come along and pay it. Sometimes they get lucky, but other times they'll be glad to knock off a couple grand, especially if the car has been sitting on the lot for a long time.


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm not normally good at it either TRM. I think it actually was a case of me being "the right buyer" for the car. How many people actually want a manual tranny Jeep with no ac, and manual locks, windows and seats from a Hyundai dealership?

The answer is: Pretty much just me.

When my wife bought her first car back in 2003 she had to fight tooth and nail to get a couple hundred dollars. 10k was what I wanted to spend, so I think it worked out.

They weren't interested in my trade though! Apparently there isn't a big market for a 1994 Chevy Suburban with 245k on it.


----------



## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

I bet it isn't hard to sell that Suburban. Just not to a dealer.


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

We'll see maybe later, we're going to try to sell it privately. There's a fairly long list of small issues, which is why we traded up.


----------



## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Don't bother bringing a blank cheque. No dealer will take it. 

I recently used carcostcanada. I take the dealer mark up and split the difference. My logic is that the dealer wants me to pay full MSRP. That's not fair. I want to pay dealer cost. That's not fair either. Dealer makes half their profit, and I save the same amount. 
No admin fees or etching fee or whatever they are calling it these days. 
My sales guy said "not gonna happen, we don't deal with ccc, etc". I said fine, were done, and walked out the door. He followed me outside and took my deal. 

It also helps to have the full amount, all taxes fees, etc included and bring in a certified bank draft or cheques, NOT a regular cheque. 

Unless the vehicle you are buying is extremely popular the dealer will always take this deal. It is fair. 

I really hate new car buying. Most dealerships and car salesmen fit somewhere on the totem pole between a pedophile, and a child molester. 
Actually I retract the last statement. It's not fair to the pedophile and molester to rank them close to a car salesman.


----------



## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

We were going to buy used last year. Wanted an 09-11 forester, preferably with manual transmission. Not too many for sale, and when you start doing the math, for about 3-5K more, we could get in to a brand new one. Seemed like a no brainer.
Got the dealer cost from Car Cost Canada. Found out about an unadvertised special whereby they lower the interest rate by 0.1% for every $500 you add to your downpayment. Managed to get 0.5% rate. I think we paid $700 over cost, which I thought fair, and had them throw in floor mats and the like. Friends who have done it pay between 500-750 over cost and get some goodies thrown in. It doesnt' work at all dealerships though - Lexus would probably laugh you out of the show room. What made it simple was I wrote up a nice letter saying I was going to pay this much, for this vehicle, in this colour, with these options, and desired to build a relationship with a dealer for future service/etc. Signed and presented it to them and they agreed to the deal within 10mins. I didn't have to haggle, just point to the letter.


----------



## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

We were going to buy used last year. Wanted an 09-11 forester, preferably with manual transmission. Not too many for sale, and when you start doing the math, for about 3-5K more, we could get in to a brand new one. Seemed like a no brainer.
Got the dealer cost from Car Cost Canada. Found out about an unadvertised special whereby they lower the interest rate by 0.1% for every $500 you add to your downpayment. Managed to get 0.5% rate. I think we paid $700 over cost, which I thought fair, and had them throw in floor mats and the like. Friends who have done it pay between 500-750 over cost and get some goodies thrown in. It doesnt' work at all dealerships though - Lexus would probably laugh you out of the show room. What made it simple was I wrote up a nice letter saying I was going to pay this much, for this vehicle, in this colour, with these options, and desired to build a relationship with a dealer for future service/etc. Signed and presented it to them and they agreed to the deal within 10mins. I didn't have to haggle, just point to the letter.


----------

