# Is it worth it (in ON) to install gas stove connection?



## Addy

We are already considering have a gas line run and having our propane bbq switched over to natural gas as refills in the town we're moving to are ridiculously expensive, plus it's inconvenient even with two tanks to get them refilled. So I am thinking if we are considering doing this, since we have to buy a stove when we move in anyway, we should consider a gas stove.

Currently there is no gas line to the stove installed. I have no clue how much it would cost to have it run (no idea how much to have the bbq line run and to have the bbq converted either), as we are just starting to contemplate this.

For those in Ontario, do you have any experience with costs savings associated with switching to a gas powered oven vs electric that you can enlighten me with?


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## Four Pillars

I wouldn't have expected any $$ savings from switching stove from electric to gas and bbq from propane to nat. gas. Maybe it's cheaper, maybe it's not.

I like the gas oven because of the flame and quick heat. I would like to switch to a natural gas bbq so that I don't have to fill up the tank once or twice a year. But, there is a filling station within a five minute walk, so no big deal.

If you want to convert, then go ahead and do it. I can't imagine it's all that expensive.


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## andrewf

Gas stoves are really nice to cook on vs. electric.

Most of the time you will need to buy a new BBQ for nat gas, as the orifices are different vs. propane. So, time the conversion for your next intended bbq purchase.

Propane burns hotter than natural gas, which can make controlling heat harder on some BBQs. Nice for steaks, though.


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## Financial Cents

We have duel-fuel; gas stove and electric oven. Works great. The thing with a gas oven, it takes a long time to heat up. You spend lots of fuel just to heat the box. The gas cooktop is a no-brainer if you can get it; you can boil water in just a couple of minutes. 

I would strongly recommend duel-fuel.


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## Addy

Interesting posts, thanks for the replies! Financial Cents is your cook top and oven one unit? I like the idea of duel fuel but I have a feeling it would only work if your units are separate? There's no room for us to have separate units so I'm hoping there's a one unit option out there.


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## marina628

whatever you do ,get it priced by a licensed Gas tech.The price will depends on where your gas meter is located ,is the gas pipe large enough to add new appliances ,many variables so impossible to guess.


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## hystat

I switched from an electric stove to gas in Dec 2009. I noticed no obvious change in my electric bill. (and we cook quite a bit)

As far as the licensed gas fitter.... that is my only regret. I wish I had done it myself. He butchered the wall and the line leaked.
We were using ridiculous amounts of fuel, so I soaped all the lines last summer and found where it was going. This was no loose fitting, it was completely shoddy workmanship..brutal and deadly. How it didn't blow off completely I dunno. 
Last summer I added the BBQ and my patioflame deck fire thing to the gas line. I plumbed those myself, safely and properly. very convenient.


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## marina628

If you work on gas lines yourself and are not licensed your insurance will not cover your house when/if it blows upAlso if gas company comes in and there is no tag on the gas work they can shut your gas off.All gas techs must put their lincense and tag on any jobs .My family has owned a HVAC business for 34 years ,a license does not guarantee you will get good workmanship and the gas company subs all it's work these days so it is best to get recommendations from family and friends.Also if you have a finished basement that can be a nightmare to run new gas lines ,best to do that sort of work when the basement is completely open.

Marina


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## andrewf

Wow. You should have reported him. He might kill someone some day.


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## marina628

To give you an idea how strict enbridge is in Ontario on codes,last april we moved into our new home and they had to come to do some inspections for our builder ,we had a single bed down in basement along with some other furnishings .Because the bed was made with a coomforter ,sheets etc he was asking a bunch of questions to ensure nobody would be sleeping in that bed as it is not permitted to have a bed in same room as the furnace nor can you have a door from a bedroom leading into the furnance room.
Wall damage i would expect if basement is finished and that should have been explained prior to doing the job , be interesting to know where you found this guy.My husband is licensed and he gets people asking him to do BBQ etc all the time but he refers them to the business .Always go through a business that carries proper insurance .Sometimes people just get friends of a friend that may have gone to school back in the 80s to get their license.My husband had been doing this work for years but he had to go back to school for 2 years back in 2001-2003 to update all his license ,BTW my hubby is retired so don't go asking for his help ha!


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## marina628

To get back to OP question , we have a gas stove now for first time and we love it.During the blackout in 2003 we had to go to my brother's as we had a baby and he had gas stove we had no way to cook so in these times it does come in handy.If you are basing your decision on savings I do not think it is much of a difference but who knows what utilities will cost in future.


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## Financial Cents

Addy said:


> Interesting posts, thanks for the replies! Financial Cents is your cook top and oven one unit? I like the idea of duel fuel but I have a feeling it would only work if your units are separate? There's no room for us to have separate units so I'm hoping there's a one unit option out there.


One unit. Gas stove on top, electric oven. You can use gas cooktop and oven at some time just like a "regular" stove. 

This is the stove we own and LOVE it to date:

http://www.sears.ca/product/electro...e-in-dual-fuel-range/622-000013730-EW30DS6CGS


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> Gas stoves are really nice to cook on vs. electric.
> 
> Most of the time you will need to buy a new BBQ for nat gas, as the orifices are different vs. propane. So, time the conversion for your next intended bbq purchase.


You don't need a new BBQ Andrew..just new jets for the existing burner(s)
as the regulator pressure may be different from liquid propane. Of course,
if your old BBQ is looking very dirty and you see that nice stainless one in
the gas company store...you may change your mind. Unlike propane B BQ
that practically everyone under the sun sells, the nat gas ones are still the domain the gas company approved retailers.


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## carverman

marina628 said:


> whatever you do ,get it priced by a licensed Gas tech.The price will depends on where your gas meter is located ,is the gas pipe large enough to add new appliances ,many variables so impossible to guess.


Yes, the installation has to be done by a gas tecnician. Usually it's either
a copper pipe inside or approved gas pipe. Either way, it's expensive these
days for the gas tap as copper and black iron gas pipe have gone up
significantly. A few years ago, you could get an outside disconnect installed
for $150 to $200, but now it is at least double that and that also depends on
how far away the BBQ is from the gas pipe, as they have to cut the pipe and
install a new t-union with a shut off valve.


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## crazyjackcsa

carverman said:


> Yes, the installation has to be done by a gas tecnician. Usually it's either
> a copper pipe inside or approved gas pipe. Either way, it's expensive these
> days for the gas tap as copper and black iron gas pipe have gone up
> significantly. A few years ago, you could get an outside disconnect installed
> for $150 to $200, but now it is at least double that and that also depends on
> how far away the BBQ is from the gas pipe, as they have to cut the pipe and
> install a new t-union with a shut off valve.


Sure doesn't. There is some more work for an outside line, but it's completly legal for the home owner to do themselves. You just need to get it inspected.


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## andrewf

Carver, parts for a BBQ are so expensive, it seldom justified replacing them. It really is a crime how expensive those parts are. Bent pieces of sheet metal running 80 bucks.


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## Financial Cents

I would suggest for installation of a BBQ gas line, or a gas stove inside the home, get a licensed gas technician to do the work. 

For insurance purposes alone, if something goes wrong, you're covered. Otherwise, may the force be with you


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## carverman

marina628 said:


> If you work on gas lines yourself and are not licensed your insurance will not cover your house when/if it blows upAlso if gas company comes in and there is no tag on the gas work they can shut your gas off.All gas techs must put their lincense and tag on any jobs .My family has owned a HVAC business for 34 years ,a license does not guarantee you will get good workmanship and the gas company subs all it's work these days so it is best to get recommendations from family and friends.Also if you have a finished basement that can be a nightmare to run new gas lines ,best to do that sort of work when the basement is completely open.
> 
> Marina


Running new gas lines best left to the licensed techs, but a comment I
would like to make, is that you can substitute a gas hwt or a furnace
without calling in a licensed gas tech..if you have the knowledge and
tools to DIY. 

All you need to do is call the gas company and arrange for an inspection
of the gas line/water heater installation on an EXISTING gas line.

An installation tag is necessary on the substitution, even if self installed.


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> Carver, parts for a BBQ are so expensive, it seldom justified replacing them. It really is a crime how expensive those parts are. Bent pieces of sheet metal running 80 bucks.


Yes, I'm aware of that Andrew. But sometimes, depending on how expensive your BBQ is and whether you still want to keep it....you can order from
the BBQ manufacturer,(if you have their 1-800 number), the appropriate brass screw-in jets. These jets are designed for use with natural gas and the orfice will be a difference diameter from propane..everything else, ( other than the connection hose that needs to be changed)... is the same.

The jets are screwed into the brass manifold where the knobs are. 
The replacement burner just plugs into these.

Yes. everything made of metal is getting expensive these days..especially car
parts!


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## carverman

crazyjackcsa said:


> Sure doesn't. There is some more work for an outside line, but it's completly legal for the home owner to do themselves. You just need to get it inspected.


Well, maybe in a legal sense..but if you have a gas leak in your basement
because of a loose coupling...I'm talking about the black iron 1" gas pipe here,
which you can get from H-D...even if inspected..where would you stand
as far as house insurance, if there is an explosion?

I had a gas fireplace installed professionally. The techs that installed it,
just removed an pipe elbow on the 3/4" gas line to the HWT and installed
a shutoff valve and then ran 3/8" copper pipe to the fireplace.
The installation tag was on the shut off valve along with a metal plate
hanging off the shutoff valve indicating it was the shutoff valve to the
gas fireplace. The exposed copper gas line had "gas" stickers every foot
or so.

*Proper installation is the key to safety.*having said that..here is a link to a homeowner in the US installing gas pipe
for switching from an electric range to a gas stove.

http://homebuilding.thefuntimesguide.com/2006/10/installgasrange.php 


and here is Coleman's instructions for installing a gas BBQ..
*note the WARNING that they strongly recommend a licensed gas installer. *

http://colemanbbqs.com/natural_gas_models.html


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## diharv

We just moved to our new to us house in April.One of the first things we did was have a gas line plumbed from the mechanical room to the area just under the counter which currently houses the electric cooktop. We thought we would cut out that cooktop right away and put in a gas range but we don't seem to mind the electric. Also at the same time I had a line run out to a quick disconnect BBQ box which I love having as the propane bottles always ran out at the most inopportune times. The total cost for this one day job was $1100.00 or so and depends on the length of the gas lines that are neede. Mine were not very long.
I had our Broil King propane BBQ converted to natural gas a few years ago by taking the orfice fittings to a local gas guy and he just drilled the holes to the larger propper size and sold me a hose and the conversion was done. That was when we were at our previous house which had an exterior BBQ box.


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## carverman

diharv said:


> The total cost for this one day job was $1100.00 or so and depends on the length of the gas lines that are neede. Mine were not very long.


Ok so it cost you $1100 for the convenience of not having to buy a second
20lb propane tank (under $70 to get buy it and get it filled in most stores),
so how does that qualify as being frugal?



> I had our Broil King propane BBQ converted to natural gas a few years ago by taking the orfice fittings to a local gas guy and he just drilled the holes to the larger propper size and sold me a hose and the conversion was done. That was when we were at our previous house which had an exterior BBQ box.


Yes, that is what some people have done, but nat gas works at a lower
regulator pressure (at the meter) than the propane tank regulator,
so you need a numbered minature numeric drill size set #42/#44 etc..
and be skilled at drilling out the brass orfices without breaking those
tiny drill bits.

for instance:
10k btu rotisserie might require a #52 (.0635) or 1/16" bit. 
12k btu sideburner #51 (.0670)
18k or 20kbtu mainburners #44 (.0860)

How many people out there have the knowlege of the requirements of
converting a propane to gas grill and have the necessary minature drill
bits and a manual or battery operated minature drill to do this? 
Only the gas technician would have this knowledge and tools.


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## Guigz

The original post does not mention this, but I assume you are already bi-energy (i.e., you already pay for gas at home).

I posit that it is cheaper to switch to a single source of energy even if such a source is more expensive on a per energy unit basis.

Indeed, in my case, the major part of my bill (electricity and gas) is constituted of non-consumption items. That is, I am paying for infrastructure, delivery, etc.... So much so that I figure it would be better for me to purchase an electric furnace (thermal pump or geothermal) and switch to a single energy source. The only thing holding me back is the cost of the installation. 

So to answer the original question, if you already have gas, maybe it makes sense. If you do not, I would seriously reconsider....


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## andrewf

^ That might have been an easier sell when gas was thrice as expensive as it is now.


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## Sustainable PF

Last fall we had a tech install our bbq gas line for $250 - about 15 feet of pipe to the meter.


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## marina628

$300 is the standard cost to do a BBQ hookup and that generally covers first 25 ft of gas pipe .


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## Financial Cents

Mine was $325 in Ottawa, taxes, quick disconnect valve and 25. ft. of line included. Gas technician did it in about 1 hour. I never have to refill a propane tank again.


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## Addy

~$300 well worth it in my opinion. 3-4 summers of refilling propane at gas- station prices (small town) would most likely pay for itself.


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## carverman

Addy said:


> ~$300 well worth it in my opinion. 3-4 summers of refilling propane at gas- station prices (small town) would most likely pay for itself.


You have a point if you are paying $25 or so per refill. However, I use
propane at my trailer where nat gas is not available, to heat water/stove and BBQ, I find that with Costco, you pay around $12 per refill. (It may have gone up slightly this year), but for me thats about 5 refills x $12 = 60 + hst.

At home, I only go through about a 20lb tank or two each year, so thats
only $24 + taxes. I guess, long term (3 years plus) it probably is worth
the $300 or so for the gas connection, but then the gas bbq is a bit more
in price (current sale at H-D..a propane is at $399 and the same nat gas
model is $449), so you also have to factor in the cost of changeover from
propane to nat gas BBQ..
unless of course, you take your gas manifold off your propane BBQ
and go to a gas tech that can drill out the jets correctly and provide you
with the proper quick disconnect adapter hose that replaces the propane
regulator hose.


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## MrMatt

marina628 said:


> To get back to OP question , we have a gas stove now for first time and we love it.During the blackout in 2003 we had to go to my brother's as we had a baby and he had gas stove we had no way to cook so in these times it does come in handy.If you are basing your decision on savings I do not think it is much of a difference but who knows what utilities will cost in future.


You have to make sure you have proper venting.
In my house that's an electric fan.

I also have a dual fuel, it's great.
Gas is better too cook on, and the electric oven (convection) is great

Problems with Gas cooktops.
You get really hot air passing by the sides of your pots.
If it boils over, you can put out the flame.

Advantage
Faster,more heat
Finer control, more responsive, you cut gas, the heat output drops immediately.
Doesn't wear out, you have a flame or you don't.

Cost, all said and done with the extra install, and dual fuel, it might cost more.
But I think it's money well spent, and I'm of course free to ignore time of day billing on the cooktop.


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## kcowan

For sure, using gas for heating is more efficient than using electricity for heating. And it will become moreso in the future. We also think gas for cooking is great and that electric ovens are also great. Gas water heater, gas furnace.


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## OhGreatGuru

Addy said:


> We are already considering have a gas line run and having our propane bbq switched over to natural gas as refills in the town we're moving to are ridiculously expensive, plus it's inconvenient even with two tanks to get them refilled. So I am thinking if we are considering doing this, since we have to buy a stove when we move in anyway, we should consider a gas stove.
> 
> Currently there is no gas line to the stove installed. I have no clue how much it would cost to have it run (no idea how much to have the bbq line run and to have the bbq converted either), as we are just starting to contemplate this.
> 
> For those in Ontario, do you have any experience with costs savings associated with switching to a gas powered oven vs electric that you can enlighten me with?


Gas stoves are more expensive than electric, and not as easily re-locatable. You are not likely to save enough on energy bills to justify it, so you should make your decision based on whether you want to cook with gas or electric. Some people swear by gas stoves, others swear at them. The compromise of a gas cooktop and an electric oven seems popular.

Unless you know you are going to install a gas oven, it doesn't make sense to pipe it in, except to ask your installer to put a plugged fitting in a convenient location in the basement for a future extension.

Gas barbecues are growing in popularity, mostly for convenience and partly because gas is cheaper than propane. Unless you have an expensive barbecue it's probably not worthwhile having it converted - buy a new one.


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## kcowan

OhGreatGuru said:


> Gas barbecues are growing in popularity, mostly for convenience and partly because gas is cheaper than propane. Unless you have an expensive barbecue it's probably not worthwhile having it converted - buy a new one.


You can drill out the nozzle when converting a propane BBQ to Natural Gas. Converting the other way means buying a new nozzle.


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## underemployedactor

Glad to hear 300 bucks or so is the going rate for bbq gas hookup. I thought I'd been ripped off as the gas meter is right beside the bbq. But was it ever worth it. Not just for convenience, but I found it to be way cheaper over a summer of heavy use. Also I found that my NG BBq burns way hotter than the propane enabling you to do high heat roasting method for large roasts. I just find it much more responsive to heat adjustment.
I also have a dual fuel gas cooktop/electric oven which I also like. The main drawback with gas ovens I find is that they are much less suitable for baking or any dry heat cooking due to the water content in natural gas. Dual fuels are painfully expensive though, and slightly more expensive to operate than all gas given the current prices of NG.
Just my 2 cents which is probably about what it's worth.


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## MrMatt

underemployedactor said:


> Glad to hear 300 bucks or so is the going rate for bbq gas hookup. I thought I'd been ripped off as the gas meter is right beside the bbq. But was it ever worth it. Not just for convenience, but I found it to be way cheaper over a summer of heavy use. Also I found that my NG BBq burns way hotter than the propane enabling you to do high heat roasting method for large roasts. I just find it much more responsive to heat adjustment.
> I also have a dual fuel gas cooktop/electric oven which I also like. The main drawback with gas ovens I find is that they are much less suitable for baking or any dry heat cooking due to the water content in natural gas. Dual fuels are painfully expensive though, and slightly more expensive to operate than all gas given the current prices of NG.
> Just my 2 cents which is probably about what it's worth.


No running out of propane is nice, and I BBQ year round, 2-3 meals/wk in the winter, bit more in the summer.
As far as the dual fuel, yes they're pricey, but having one I really don't want to downgrade to electric burners.


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## Berubeland

I was reading the other day that gas is better for cooking with the burners but the oven is still less good and cooks more unevenly than the electric oven. 

6 of one half dozen of the other I suppose. 

For my house I was considering switching to gas from oil but when I did the math it was cheaper to use oil for my house. I use about one tank of oil per year $800. Just Enbridge gas's customer charge is $20 per month or $240 per year. At one point it was cheaper to use gas but not anymore. 

Part of the reason that oil got such a bad rap is because the old low efficiency furnaces in old drafty houses can cost a fortune. But with a new hi efficiency model I'm really happy.


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