# Blue collar/White.



## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Its was interesting seeing what everybody does for a living,i noticed with a few exceptions(myself included)most here are "white collar" and that would make sense for a whole lot of reason.

I always wanted to go to college,but right after high-school,i started working for a uncle,had a construction business..and i ended up on that path,im not "educated" but for the last 12 yrs since high school ive came up from the "street level" and own a small construction firm,i make a above average income about 85k a yr,and have been building assets since i was about 20(rrsp,tfsa,real estate,cash)im 32.

My question is:is there still a stigma attached to blue collar?Why is it that say a contractor(i know several of them)thats built,or building a business,cant get the same level of respect than say a accountant,doctor ect,even thou at times they may be in a higher financial position?Be curious what you think about the general divide between white & blue,if any would like to comment.Its always bothered me the physcology of "looking down on the guy with the tool belt on"True?sterotype?


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I think there is a peception that because white collar folks are more educated, they must also be more intelligent and by extension more deserving of their financial status, even if they ultimately earn less than certain blue collar professions. A person's actual financial standing is secondary to the image they project and the people they associate with.

Though I currently work in an office job I was actually making more money when I did blue collar work. I enjoy repetitive tasks and dislike dealing with people, so manual labour type jobs are a natural fit for me.

I don't see any shame in being blue collar. At 32 years old, when I look at my friends who went to college or university, most of them aren't any further ahead than I am. Of course that may change in 10 years, but I hope to stay ahead by being smart with my money - something my friends can't seem to grasp.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

I'm a white collar guy who looks up, not down at a lot of skilled tradespeople. I wish I had more skills with building and fixing things. As a kid I loved taking things apart and fixing them or building stuff. I like what I do but if I wasn't making the coin I do, I certainly wouldn't be.

You are making a good income and don't have to worry about job security as you are self employed. 

I was a camp counsellor during the summers when I was teenager and often say I would still be doing that if I could afford to. Best job I ever had getting paid to take kids on canoe trips and teaching them how to swim, sail, etc.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Ihatetaxes said:


> I'm a white collar guy who looks up, not down at a lot of skilled tradespeople.


+1. 

Some of the sharpest, most intelligent people I've met have been in the trades. People draw a distinction between working with your hands and working with your head, but in the trades you have to work with both.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

Intelligence and education are not the same thing, and many intelliegent people are not well educated.

Yes, there definitly is a stigma attached to a blue collar job, the fact that some earn a lot of money is not the issue, the fact that the blue collar may be one heck of a lot smarter than many Ph.D's is not debatable, the fact that one is seen as Educated and the other Not is how you are judged.

Many Non University Grads attach this stigma to themselves, that is why they push their kids to go to University.

Several of My Brothers are Retired Trades People, Multi Millionaires, but I am seen as the Smart Brother because I attended several Universities and held a High Profile Management job.

My Sons are both Grads, not making a ton of money, but function very well in Social Situations and are not afraid to answer which University they went to(Brock, Mc Master, University of Beijing).

My Jewish Friend told me, Give your kids an Education, no one can take that awy from them.

I also know several hugely Intelligent people, hold several Ph.D's, the personality of a door knob and making low incomes working in Research.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

My husband is the youngest child of many siblings. Weirdly, he is the only white collar worker among them. His father was also a blue collar worker and now many of our neices and nephews have entered various trades. 

Needless to say, we have a lot of respect for blue collar workers in our family. I would go as far as to say that my husband sometimes feels inadequate when he needs/wants to do something (i.e. plumbing) and can't, but one of them can and can do so easily. 

He also envies their good physical shape. Physical work keeps them in better shape than his sedentary job. 

Have you read "The Millionaire Next Door" or "The Millionalre Mind"? Both books make a point of mentioning that many 1st generation millionaires are self employed blue collar workers.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

The beauty of our differences is that not everybody wants to do the same type of work. This is good. Means when office workers get home, the plumber will be there to fix their sink. 

Otherwise, everyone would want to work in the office and no one would want to fix the sink. Our society wouldn't function. 

All these different jobs must be filled.

As for stigma, perhaps in the past, but I have never looked down at blue collar workers. Many of them work for the city and bring in good coin. These people work in hard, physically demanding jobs in less than ideal conditions. I have great respect for them, but I extend the same respect to white collar workers. Basically it comes down to work ethic.

Always be careful when judging blue collar workers and the like. You never know their story. I once recognized a bus driver from my college accounting classes years earlier. He took the courses, got his diploma and was driving a bus (and making more $ than if he had of gotten work in his field, though I think he later did work in his field). Education and diplomas give more options.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't think there is much of a stigma against skilled trades. Maybe in some immigrant communities where parents want every one of their children to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer or actuary. 

I think the blue collar jobs that tend to be looked down on are the ones that don't pay well! Generally unskilled, but including some 'skilled' professions where there is a glut of workers such as Early Childhood Education, etc. In my extended family, the only person I know of who is looked down on for their work is my cousin who alternates between welfare and working at McDonalds, even though she has nearly completed two college diplomas that could get her a decent job earning $35k-$40k per year.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

There is also reverse discrimination. A white-collar guy I knew got into an argument at a bar after he complained to the blue-collar guy sitting next to him that he'd had a really hard day at work. The blue-collar guy asked to see the white-collar guys hands, and seeing no calluses on them declared that the white-collar guy had no idea what a hard day at work was.

I've also had blue-collar people tell me I've never worked a day in my life, simply because they see me now in a white-collar desk job (not knowing that I spent most of my teens and early 20s doing manual-labor jobs in factories, landscaping, furniture-delivery, dishwashing, etc.).


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Regarding stigma - I think there still is. 

I'm not sure that white vs blue is enough of a differentiation however. 

Generally speaking, an electrician or plumber has a job that is just as mentally challenging as a lot of white collar jobs. Someone who digs ditches all day does not have that same mental challenge.

Conversely, there are some people who have degrees and wear suits to work, but are the equivalent to the photocopy boy.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Hi Donald,

You might be interested in reading this essay entitled "Aristotle's Authority" (link:http://webhome.idirect.com/~andyt/school.html). The essay's argument is that traditionally our society has valued "education" over real-life experience, and defines "education as a collection of abstract ideas rather than practical knowledge" to act as a barrier of entry into the world of the elites and upper classes and NOT because it's the best means of producing people capable of doing real work. 

_“We say a student who spends three years at university is "educated", but one who takes four years of classes and apprenticeship to become a mechanic is not"_

A university education as a gate keeper into the world of the elites is a historical legacy, and I think with increasing access to education/info, the worth of a degree/academic education in that respect is getting lower and lower.

Working in the industry that I do, where many skilled trades like electricians, boiler makers, etc. can significantly out earn the engineers and other degree having professionals, and tend to have the most common sense and aptitude for the work, I know better than to look down on them. I also know from my family background, where much of my family is outside of the country and I have cousins my age with likely the same or greater intelligence level working as migrant laborers in the middle east or in cities in south asia, often doing skilled work, earning practically nothing that how much you earn, nor the kind of work you do, says anything much about your intelligence or character.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

My Mantra while earning my First Degree was that I would not let School get in the way of my Education.

My Oldest Brother, now 70 was a printer, blessed with a photographic memory.

He worked at the London School of Economics when He travelled Europe for several years, printed the theses for Ph. D candidates, read them, committed to memory, if you met this guy who left school at 16, you would think him a University Professor, his knowledge base is so extensive. 

He still reads extensivly, has an opinion on everything, a little bit strange, now divorced, lives in Cabin in woods, grows evrything He eats, local Farmers give him Chickens etc, happiest guy you will eevr meet, His Daughters absolutly love Him, as do all His Grand Kids.


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## bbsj (Aug 26, 2010)

"A well educated person can be trained to do anything in six months, but a well trained person is only slightly better than an ape." (Marshall McLuhan)


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I supose I have a kind of white collar job, as a member of the media. That said, I fit into the low paid end of the spectrum.

At home, I dress blue collar, I work blue collar (all my own home repair/renovations, all my own car repair, and everything else). And I am blue collar.
My dad is a pipefitter by trade and I have the utmost respect for him, and every other tradesperson.

I think a lot of it has to do with how much can transfer in the trades. Sure, you may be a carpenter, but you know a little plumbing, a little electrical, a little hvac, and everything else.

I find white collar types have a harder time transfer their skills into "real world" (outside the office) applications.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

bbsj said:


> "A well educated person can be trained to do anything in six months, but a well trained person is only slightly better than an ape." (Marshall McLuhan)


Sure, but you're confusing the term "educated" with "smart"

The two aren't interchangeable, although many in society seem to think so.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

Surgeons make the worst investors, well educated their ego gets in the way and they are easy prey for Con Men.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

That remind me of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

From Wikipedia:



> The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1127).[2]
> 
> The effect is about paradoxical defects in cognitive ability, in oneself and others.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

crazyjackcsa said:


> Sure, but you're confusing the term "educated" with "smart"
> 
> The two aren't interchangeable, although many in society seem to think so.


Some of the most ineffective people I have ever worked with were MBAs. Very well educated, but not necessarily very smart.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> That remind me of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
> 
> From Wikipedia:


So in other words - we're all messed up?


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

I'd say that there is a stigma yet. Quite unfortunate, as happy, productive lives await in the trades too.

Some of my reflections...

A guy who was a year ahead of me in engineering started life as an electrician. We were both in engineering at an age north of 25. He finished second in EE fourth year and eventually was CEO of a publically traded company that was bought out for something like $470M. It is likely he owned something like 10% of the firm - you do the math. (Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet BTW.) I don't know, but it is my guess that he came from a working class background, and university just wasn't on his family's radar when he was 18. How many more people are in trades just because ... then a baby comes along, and pretty soon you are 50 years old.

I once took a college welding course and despite my best efforts, I got only a C. High intelligence in say mathematics says nothing about one's ability to do an "art" task and vice versa. In the engine lathe course, one day we came upon the equation for turning tapers. In under 30 seconds, I recognized a linear equation, though not expressed in the form y=mx + b. No further reflection needed for an engineer: a linear equation is a linear equation, is a linear equation. We spent an hour tossing about this equation. Again, I likely wasn't the best machinist in the room. Different skills for different tasks.

It really is just a matter of luck that your particular kind of intelligence happens to have (cash, respect) value in the time period you happen to live in. I suspect that Shannon, the guy who did the theoretical mathematics for the sampling theorem (ie everything analog -> digital and back again, CDs, DVDs etc.) back in 1928 would have been fantastically wealthy if it hadn't taken 50 years for the hardware to show up to impliment his mathematics. Instead he is just a historcal footnote. Or contrast a farmer now, to one 200 years ago. Or consider entertainers. The only reason they can become fabulously wealthy is because of all the research and engineering work done this past century. Put them into the 19th century and they just find themselves wandering from town to town on horseback.

So I don't look down upon any skill or talent. They all have value quite independant from the cash they can earn circa 2011.

hboy43 (not much good at anything, but less bad at some things)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

White collar vs blue collar jobs.......the distinction between union or non union employment often represents more of a difference in wages, benefits and job security, than the white collar......blue collar distinction.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your insight.A friend of mine and i were talking about this subject recently also.

I was saying to him(and im happy with what i do)was that i wished i could spend my days in a suit,or nicely dressed,instead im in dirty jeans(most of the time anyways lol)with dirt under my finger nails,ive always had a healthy mindset so "looking like a labourer" does not bug me because im not,but if you seen me in line at safeway you might think that.

We were also saying just on dress alone,what a difference it is "out there in society"Ive usaually got a smile on my face so it does not matter.

But if you go to a car lot for example,your cell phone provider,maybe a nicer place for lunch....people just are not conditioned to treat you in the same way nor the same level as if you came in with clean clothes,a nice watch piece,and a pair of business shoes....just chatting on imagine,you could draw the same parrel to "looking well off"but not being,"looking poor"but being well off,but everything is realitive.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It is weird how some times people are not treated well based on appearance. I recently bought a car, and got the distinct impression that the sales staff didn't consider me a serious buyer, maybe because of age or something... I'm not sure.

You really can't judge a book by its cover, especially in sales.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I feel well off already,a guy on bay street might feel dead broke if he only made 80k a yr,i should say i dont live in (to) so 85k can go a longer way (im in winnipeg).just so i dont come off like im talking like i make the big money.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

Old story, Ronny Hawkins, the Rock Star went to buy a Cadillac, in the days when a Cadillac meant you have arrived.

The money was in his blue jeans, All Ca$h, but when He went into the dealership, no one would wait on him, so He went up to the Sales Manager, pulled the money out, and told them to f^^ themselves and bought the car elsewhere.

i lived in London for awhile, used to see this old grubby man, thick accent, rael friendly, I would talk to him, most would not.

He died, over ten apartment buildings were his, No Relatives it all went to Charity.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I have a white collar job but work at home, so most of the time I'm working in jeans or shorts, t-shirt, sweats, etc.; I only own one suit (bought in 1991) and wear it a couple of times per year when going to meetings or business travel. I think the degree to which people treat you differently depending on how you dress probably makes more of a difference when you're younger. I'm in my early 50s and I think when I walk in to a store or restaurant on a weekday dressed casually most people probably assume I just have the day off.


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## davext (Apr 11, 2010)

This is a great discussion. 

I'm an engineer and I work from home as a consultant, sometimes I have to see clients at their offices.

There are always people that look down at others to make themselves feel better and I think that's how this white/blue collar issue is still embraced.

Then there are people who have a chip on their shoulder because they feel that they are being looked down upon. 

Neither of these 2 groups of people are ideal but it's human nature. You should be happy with what you're doing and if you're not, strive to get there.

Maybe I don't know what I'm saying because I haven't done it recently but I would love to work in different jobs, blue/white. I always did a lot of crappy jobs while growing up but I didn't mind it if there was variety. For example, I would be working as a accounting clerk during the week, tutoring at night, and changing oil for cars on the weekend.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I'm Howard said:


> Old story, Ronny Hawkins, the Rock Star went to buy a Cadillac, in the days when a Cadillac meant you have arrived.
> 
> The money was in his blue jeans, All Ca$h, but when He went into the dealership, no one would wait on him, so He went up to the Sales Manager, pulled the money out, and told them to f^^ themselves and bought the car elsewhere...


True story but it was a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud. And I think at the time (60s), the amount of cash was around $150k.

The Hawk was well-known to a small group of people at the time.

There is another whole class of white collar workers who are businessmen and CEOs but not privy to higher education. I know several. They are rich yet humble.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

A higher Education will get you a career, a trade will get you a job.

A Degree never stopped you from a promotion, but lack of one did.

I would not hire a person unless they had a degree, you were hiring people that would and could grow with the company, a warehouse person one day could be running the whole logistics department, the secretary could grow to be the Office Manager, or even higher, not unusual for a Secretary to eventually run the company.

I have never met a tool I didn't hate, forunately several brothers were trades people, they looked after those things.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Howard,being a former ceo/self employed...would you not see in a individual that possessed certian triats unemployable? just on the merit of education alone?

There are people who are natural leaders, whatever situation they find themselfs in they lead,i know a few people like that and that is either a innate ability or just a natural order of things for them...education cant always give someone qualities imo.

Same with sales,there are people who could read course after course,seminar after seminar,and they cant transfer it to the real world.Yet there are people that just naturally know how to sell,the old "could sell ice to a eskimo".

I know education will trump non educated 9 times out of ten....but,sometimes a persons personality,drive,soft skills can trump,people skills are huge imo...you dont get that from being in the four walls of a university,just my thoughts.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I'm Howard said:


> A higher Education will get you a career, a trade will get you a job.


And what about people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, multibillionaires and CEOs who don't have any degrees?

I only have a B.A. degree and yet more than once I've been chosen over other job candidates with Masters and PhDs, and I currently earn more than quite a few of my colleagues who have those advanced degrees. At some point experience is worth more than a degree. My not having an advanced degree has never stood in my way, but of course if would be different in a different field. In the few cases where I wasn't brought in for an interview because I lacked a required advanced degree, I figured I wouldn't want to work for such close-minded people anyway (again, this would be a different story if I were in a different field where an advanced degree really is important -- if I wanted to be a university professor, for example, I don't think I'd get too many offers with just a BA, nor should I).

Furthermore, I think you can make a career out of being a carpenter or plumber; most of the carpenters and builders I know consider it their career -- a career doesn't necessarily have to move upward, it can move inward as well. I'm a big proponent of staying where you are if you're happy there and focusing on continuous improvement. In my own career I've refused attempts to promote me and prefer to just keep getting better at the job I currently have, because I know I have a lot of room for improvement.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

If i was hiring for a person say to run a production department,or if i needed a top sales man if i had a firm like that and was seeking positions for those roles i would most def look at other things......maybe you got two guys applying for running a team of people.

Person a) has a education,but he stands 5'6 inches tall,wears glasses and cant look people in the eyes when speaking,in a crowd of people he shrinks in the corner(chances are he would not seek this position,but im trying to make a point)

Person b) does not have a education,he is 6'2,got a big grin on his face,type of guy that walks in to a room and points over to people,maybe he lead his high school football team to a championship.

I dont know about you, but i know who id take....and the persons education might not even factor,understand there are types of businesses that do not work this way,but.


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## Syph007 (May 2, 2011)

donald said:


> If i was hiring for a person say to run a production department,or if i needed a top sales man if i had a firm like that and was seeking positions for those roles i would most def look at other things......maybe you got two guys applying for running a team of people.
> 
> Person a) has a education,but he stands 5'6 inches tall,wears glasses and cant look people in the eyes when speaking,in a crowd of people he shrinks in the corner(chances are he would not seek this position,but im trying to make a point)
> 
> ...


Trick question! Person b is fictitious as we all now ex high school athletes are all overweight losers later in life! lol


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Trying to be the next Bill Gates or Steve Jobs is like trying to be the next Sidney Crosby or Wayne Gretzsky. Thousands or millions will try, and a handful will succeed. I think people do it for the same reason people buy lottery tickets: humans are really bad at judging the likelihood of unlikely events.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Donald, does education make people shorter? Must be from carrying all those books.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

brad, at some point you will be let go, companies are not interested in those who do not progress and at some point it will be cheaper to bring in a new hire at less expense.

You are saying, if it ain't broke why fix ut when you should be saying, if it ain't broke , break it.

A rut is a coffin with the ends kicked out an carpentry is an Occupation, not a career, that is why it is called Career Path.


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## ledtim (Sep 4, 2010)

Only if Shaq didn't have that basketball career to get in the way of working as a production department manager. I'm sure he'd do much better than people shorter than him with BBAs.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I'm Howard said:


> brad, at some point you will be let go, companies are not interested in those who do not progress and at some point it will be cheaper to bring in a new hire at less expense.


No, actually my company decided to create a new job category for myself and others like me (I'm far from the only one who doesn't want to be on the "career track") and there's no pressure on us anymore to advance up the ladder. Our success is measured in other ways. You can spend a lifetime learning how to get better at one job; I feel like I'm being paid to go to school, as I'm constantly learning. That feels like growth to me.



I'm Howard said:


> A rut is a coffin with the ends kicked out an carpentry is an Occupation, not a career, that is why it is called Career Path.


When I lived in the States, some of the wealthiest people in the towns I lived in were builders and contractors with nothing more than a high-school education. They worked their way up from carpentry, and a few of them were bringing in well over $700K/year. I wouldn't knock it.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^I'm guessing that was $700k from a carpentry business employing others, not wages of $700k/yr.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

andrewf said:


> ^I'm guessing that was $700k from a carpentry business employing others, not wages of $700k/yr.


These were big-time builders and contractors, so yes they employed other people but their personal income from owning the business was around $700K/year and they had the big houses, cars, and toys to prove it.

I'm not trying to make a point that a college or graduate education isn't a good idea, I'm just pointing out that someone who starts out in carpentry can go on to make a good career and good money. My downstairs neighbor in an apartment I rented started as a carpenter, then moved up to job foreman, then clerk-of-the-works on construction sites, and eventually launched his own contracting business. Carpentry isn't necessarily a dead end.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Of course there is still stigma. There always will be.

But like someone said earlier in the thread, there is a distinction between being educated and being intelligent.

Who cares about the stigmas. Its all about what you like doing and how much money you're making.

In my eyes, the person who went through the least amount of school and makes the most money is the one who really has it down.

I have been working hard labour for 7 years (14-21) and I just started my first "white collar" entry level job last month.

Before my current job, I was always working in high temperature environments with dirt and grunge, lifting things half my weight, cuts and bruises, and I still have calluses and cuts on my hands, some scars that will never heal.

But for me, I enjoy the white collar work. I do not like being hot and I do not like being physically tired. I rather be stressed and put to the test mentally.

However, I do what I do for the money. If someone came along and said "Hey, would you like a job making 10k more a year?" but it was physical labour, you can bet your balls I would take it.

Most of my friends are blue collar and we joke about being white and blue all the time.

Money > Stigma

After All, Money is what everyone is after. It is only the insecure people who push labels onto others.

And remember, too, the most successful person is the happiest person. I have a lot more assets/money than my friends, but they are a lot happier than I am.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

stigma ? lots of professional women go for the trades.

glamourous blonde muni councillor in my district, divorced, she dates a lot, pointing out the tree cutters pruning a 100-foot high maple in her backyard, one is a viking, it's always the tradesmen who are the attractive guys, she says (she has a graduate degree herself,) lawyers & MAs in history are "schlubs," she says ...

cute librarian in the local library has a master's degree, husband is a warehouse manager who came up through the ranks ...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

For what it's worth, statistical analysis indicates that like-marries-like in terms of socioeconomic status. Highly educated people tend to marry other highly educated people.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

While i dont know about other blue collar jobs,but the one i have looks like this.....november-march basicaly off(i do a few jobs,but my main work is in the mths left out)I have a crew of guys with me(4 guys)and i dont socialize with them,but were tight,id go to the wall for them and so would they for me),there aint no politics...its are ship, and thats how it is.

In my working mths i bring home about 20k,a mth(i leave a percent back in the business)Ya i swing hammer but ya know what i wouldnt trade up for a corporate job...not a chance hell.Ya ever watch those ford commercials....where those tough sobs are hard at work....thats me,its a lifestyle,no different than a farmer.Its a uneducated view if you dont think wealth is created in industry.Yes education trumps a non educated person,but people got there head up there *** if they think wealth cant be created without one,harder yes...i know a few builders who could buy and sell alot of corporate people.It takes balls to "go it alone,when your self employed,the common man educated or not 9/10 times doesnt have the moxie nor the self confidence,i know so many people who would like to own there own business,but they know deep inside there scared as **** to step out.Bottom line.being self employed is the ultimate education,there aint nobody to catch you when make a mistake,and management to snuggle up to.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I get "hot" about this subject because im close friends with alot of guys who are doing there batchlors ect,not all but most of them cant even change a light bulb or know how to start a lawnmower,they dont want to know,and were good with each other(guys i grew up with)but i think its sad....maybe they think its sad i cant do trig or something,fair enough.


when i used the person a,person b example:i was just using a example....this is a wide,wide world and so many ways to skin a cat!


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Grew up with a lot of guys who have ended up in blue collar jobs. Went to school with a lot of guys who have ended up in white collar jobs. There is money in both, and in both cases you get paid for what you put in. Friends in construction who stayed in the city aren't making much, friends who are mining up north or in the oil fields out west are making a ton. Same with white collar: if you're putting in the easy 37.5 hour government work, you're making decent money. If you put in investment banker's hours, you make 6 figures. 

Although I think there still is a stigma attached to blue vs. white collar, there is the opportunity in both to make it big, or not. It all depends on how hard you work and what you put into it.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I have tremendous respect I have for blue collar workers, but whenever I talk to them I'm regaled with stories of regret. I'm in my final year of university and have been through many short term co-op positions. The majority of folks I talk to tell me how "smart" I am, good for me, don't give up on your schooling.
I failed a year of university, but I've stuck with it and looks like I'm in line to graduate next year. Gives me a real perspective on the fleeting differences between a successful engineer with the world seemingly in front of him and just another dropout. 
In a practical sense, being blue collar seems to have a real glass ceiling involved. Sure it's great to be working hard at a trade that's challenging and you love, but what happens when you're 40, 50, or 60? The older the guy I talk to the more regret I hear. Of course there's exceptions that become wealthy business owners, but more than likely you'll turn 35, be unable to climb higher in your career, and be facing the rest of your life doing the same task over and over and answering to an ever younging, less experienced boss. 
Again I don't want to belittle anyone, everyone has their own personality, relationships and values that truly defines them, not some job - it's just my experience is that blue collars appear to be far less satisfied with their careers than white collars, particularly when they start getting older. 

Of course with a purely financial view I'd be tempted to say that a smart (whatever that means) blue collar can usually make more money than a smart white collar. I just met a 24 year old welding inspector the other day that makes $1000/day. I probably can't hope to make that until I'm 45+ ...food for though.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I guess thats the beauty of life,everbody is different,learns different,one person sees a bleak picture in something and another person can see it differently.

I talk to alot of people with government jobs that make it sound like its a hell ride,so much politics,different camps and departments,being confined to do things a certian way,no free creativity,just about everybody i know talks about,backstabbing,the famous queen bees,seems like in departments if your not a high ex your eating alot of crow,in my job there is no "personal health day" everybody in white coller seems to have,what the heck is that anyways?

I know(my ex)and a couple other females come home from there white collar jobs crying once a week because of this and that(grown women)the white collar environment does not seem like a bed of roses from my perspective.

I view being able to freelance your skills,market them,and deploy them independently to the market place with your skills and abilities as a way through a glass ceiling,not the way some see it.

If there is any "bull market" career wise i see it in the construction industry,every young person is running away from it,trades.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

And when your 50,you have a work force working for you,if you play your cards right,spending your time estimating,over seeing,problem solving,planning....maybe all that while your rounding the ninth green with a beer in your hand courtsey of one of your suppliers as he gives you a lead,or your with another associate that you just did a bid for"work on a apartment complex"and he just invited you to his time share down south.....that aint that far fetched.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> It is weird how some times people are not treated well based on appearance. I recently bought a car, and got the distinct impression that the sales staff didn't consider me a serious buyer, maybe because of age or something... I'm not sure.
> 
> You really can't judge a book by its cover, especially in sales.


This reminds me of when I tagged along when my sister and brother-in-law went car shopping. Lots of newspaper articles at the time indicated women were a growing segment of the car buying market. 

Yet even with my brother-in-law pointed saying "I'm here to make sure I fit in the car - it's her choice and her car", 95% of the salesmen were ignoring her to focus on him.



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm Howard said:


> A higher Education will get you a career, a trade will get you a job.
> 
> A Degree never stopped you from a promotion, but lack of one did.
> 
> ...


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## bootsnixon (May 10, 2011)

I've worn both blue and white collars in my work. One thing that has great personal worth to me is how good of shape I was in doing my most menial jobs. My body never felt so good and I was a calorie burning machine. Of course I'm waxing nostalgic right now because my back hurts from sitting around too much!


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