# Is using a proxy server illegal?



## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

There are sometimes things I would like to watch online that originate in the States, but are blocked in Canada due to some type of copyright restriction. Specifically, there is a series on PBS that I would like to watch which is available online for free in the US, however we in Canada are blocked from viewing it for some reason. (I do not own a TV and therefore do not have cable). 

Is the use of a proxy or VPN inviting legal action? I have never done so and would need to find out how to even do it but I want to know the ramifications for using this type of thing.

Thank you.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

This should not be considered a legal opinion. 

It is not specifically illegal to use a proxy server. 

But, and it is a big but ...

the previous conservative government passed laws which made it illegal to circumvent technologies that control access to copyrighted works. Therefore, if you are using the proxy to access blocked copyrighted content then you may be in violation. 

AFAIK, t\his has yet to be tested in a Canadian court so it is unclear. 

Tens of thousands of people use proxy and/or VPN services to access US content - esp. Netflix and Hulu. Generally, the government will crackdown on service providers, not individuals. 

Your ISP might threaten to disconnect your service but this is unlikely for something so minor. They tend to go after folks downloading/accessing movies and HBO shows. 

FWIW, I don't use a VPN or proxy and I am able to see PBS content. If you post what you are trying to watch, I will try it.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Olivaw, just a small correction - Netflix has cracked down on the use of proxies/VPN's and it is very difficult to find one that works for Netflix content anymore. We used to watch American Netflix but now have given up and just stick with the Canadian catalog because of this.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A note related to all of this. Under the Conservative government, media companies (well, their agents) gained the ability to mail out threatening letters across Canada. These letters claim that someone has engaged in illegal downloading behaviour and demand pay-outs or "settlement".

Ignore these letters and extortions. Accusers should provide evidence. They will never take you to court over this, especially since the maximum payout is $5,000.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episod...-you-get-an-illegal-download-notice-1.3026370
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/piracy-copyright-infringement-canada-1.3640434

Don't pay a fine without clear evidence of wrongdoing. These media companies have also been caught sending out these extortion letters even for (misclassified) legitimate downloading activity. Just because you receive a letter, doesn't mean you did anything wrong.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

VPNs are used every day in many industries, so I doubt there is any law against having them installed. I think the Netflix issue arose because of commercial forces on Netflix, which has a legal right/obligation to sell content only in countries where they have bought and paid for it, and unfortunately Netflix does not choose to pay for the same content in each country. 

I cancelled Netflix because of this, but I still have my VPN for security reasons.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

VPNs are 100% legal.

VPNs have compelling use cases for consumers for reasons other than illicit activity (piracy or bypassing geolocks). It is highly recommended that you use a VPN to secure your traffic when using public wifi or protecting your privacy from your ISP.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> A note related to all of this. Under the Conservative government, media companies (well, their agents) gained the ability to mail out threatening letters across Canada. These letters claim that someone has engaged in illegal downloading behaviour and demand pay-outs or "settlement".
> 
> Ignore these letters and extortions. Accusers should provide evidence. They will never take you to court over this, especially since the maximum payout is $5,000.
> http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episod...-you-get-an-illegal-download-notice-1.3026370
> ...


You are talking as if stealing were just fine but fighting for your property was a crime.


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## GreenAvenue (Dec 28, 2011)

mordko said:


> You are talking as if stealing were just fine but fighting for your property was a crime.


... if that was the case..... Bell Aliant sent us emails like these in regards to movies we downloaded. The emails were in regards to movies recently in the theaters (and probably for sale on dvd or something). Older movies however, nothing! We love downloading books as well. But did we ever get a 'settlement letter' over that? Nope. That makes me wonder who decides what needs to be 'protected'.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm not saying stealing is fine. I'm saying that you can't trust the message these guys sent, when they said that you did something illegal. You may NOT have done anything illegal; don't trust their claim about it. And never admit to wrongdoing, as a general rule.

These places are simply looking at crude IP address data (like hits at a torrent tracker) and then sending letters. They don't have strong reasons to believe that something illegal has occurred. Instead they are casting a very wide net. They've even sent these letters to people who were doing totally legitimate activity.

Protecting your property is your right. But it is not acceptable to go harass large groups of people, threatening lawsuits without a firm belief that the person did something illegal.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I am guessing they are not making up IPs but picking those who download/torrent copyrighted material. It might be prohibitively expensive for them to sue you, but they have strong grounds to believe their property has been stolen.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

IPs do not uniquely identify users, since most ISPs assign dynamic IPs to their subscribers.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

olivaw said:


> This should not be considered a legal opinion.
> 
> It is not specifically illegal to use a proxy server.
> 
> ...


Thank you Olivaw- this is the link:
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365882221/


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> but they have strong grounds to believe their property has been stolen.


No, they don't have strong grounds. They make mistakes associating IP addresses with identities as with dynamic allocations this is tough to get right, even with the ISP's cooperation[1]. Not to mention the possibility of compromised, open Wifi where anyone may have been the user; this can happen through no fault of the customer. They also sometimes go after IP addresses for just visiting a tracker, which is itself not an illegal activity. What's illegal is downloading the movie, not sending packets to and from a tracker.

They want you to believe they have strong grounds, but they really don't. This is why they won't fight it in court.

_[1] I do some work in this field and even law enforcement can't get this accurately, let alone Sony Pictures_


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

indexxx said:


> Thank you Olivaw- this is the link:
> http://www.pbs.org/video/2365882221/


Hi Indexxx, I also was unable to stream that show. I received the message: _We're sorry, but this video is not available in your region due to right restrictions._. I can watch a number of other PBS shows (_Black America since MLK, PBS Newshour, Austin City Limits_) but not that show. 

FWIW: It will be available on Blueray or DVD on Nov 29th.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> No, they don't have strong grounds. They make mistakes associating IP addresses with identities as with dynamic allocations this is tough to get right, even with the ISP's cooperation[1]. Not to mention the possibility of compromised, open Wifi where anyone may have been the user; this can happen through no fault of the customer. They also sometimes go after IP addresses for just visiting a tracker, which is itself not an illegal activity. What's illegal is downloading the movie, not sending packets to and from a tracker.
> 
> They want you to believe they have strong grounds, but they really don't. This is why they won't fight it in court.
> 
> _[1] I do some work in this field and even law enforcement can't get this accurately, let alone Sony Pictures_


You are talking as if you were in court already. "It wasn't me who downloaded 49058409584095840958 copyrighted movies onto my computer". 

In reality there two reasons why it won't go to court:

1. Canadian law is weak.
2. ISP providers are not obliged to give the owner of the copyright any information on those who download movies illegally and they don't see it as being in their interest.

There is part of me that thinks some content producers deserve it, like HBO who makes dirty monopolistic deals with cable companies and refuses to sell their content in Canada on show by show basis as they do in the US.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Copyright law is also absurd. It used to be for a reasonable period of time for the creator to benefit from his works. Now it extends long after the creator is dead. Essentially as old as Mickey Mouse plus a few years. Copyright was supposed to be a compromise between the individual interest and the collective cultural interest. That compromise is breaking down.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> A note related to all of this. Under the Conservative government, media companies (well, their agents) gained the ability to mail out threatening letters across Canada. These letters claim that someone has engaged in illegal downloading behaviour and demand pay-outs or "settlement".
> 
> Ignore these letters and extortions. Accusers should provide evidence. They will never take you to court over this, especially since the maximum payout is $5,000.
> http://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episod...-you-get-an-illegal-download-notice-1.3026370
> ...


I actually got an email from my ISP this morning that was very prompt and detailed. It was not really threatening or demanding and I appreciate that and complied immediately. I do pay for VPN but don't always use it as it slightly degrades internet performance

I downloaded The Grand Tour on Friday (a highly popular record breaking premier) It was so popular on torrents that it far exceeded the share ratio of anything I've downloaded before since Friday alone (mind you my internet is significantly faster now)

This morning I received an email from Amazon via my ISP and it was actually polite and just asked that they notify me, which they did by forwarding



> Although various legal and equitable remedies may be available to Amazonas a result of such infringement, we believe that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to effect removal of the detected infringement listed in the below report, including:
> 
> (1) Notify the account holder of this infringement
> (2) Require the account holder remove the infringing material=20
> ...


It also listed the exact name of the torrent, file size, IP address, port number etc etc.. very detailed "evidence"

Now before people cry criminal, I actually PAY for Amazon Prime Canada since they announced The Grand Tour but unfortunately it is only available in the US (maybe in Canada in a few weeks)

I am actually happy to pay a reasonable price for good entertainment. I have always downloaded and shared Top Gear because I cannot pay for it but I've never received a letter from the BBC

I did receive a letter in Germany once but I was basically advised to ignore it and nothing ever came of it

I guess I'll be turning my VPN back on and continue to wait for The Grand Tour to be available in Canada..


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