# Futureshop: Buy appliances now to save on the tax or wait for Boxing Day Deals?



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Folks, we are shopping for appliances for our new place (closing date next April so we do have a bit of time) and Future Shop currently has a *save-the-tax* promo. I have not read all the fine prints but I understand we can't combine that with any other promo or discount.

The models that we are interested in and the current prices on the Future Shop website are as follows:

Fridge: LG Counter-dept French door LMX21986ST, $3,199.99

Range: LG Electric Freestanding (LG, FS, and some other websites incorrectly label this as slide-in) LSE3092ST, $2,699.99

Dishwasher: Bosch SHE3AR55UC, $699.99

Washer LG 4.5 cu.ft front-load WM3360HVCA, $1,049.99 (save $350, regular price $1,399.99, sale ends November 17)

Dryer LG 7.4 cu.ft steam electric dryer DLEX3360V, $949.99 (save $350, regular price $1,299.99, sale ends November 17)

Total: $8,599.95 and if the current *save-the-tax* promo applies towards all of these models, that is what I will be paying.

Do you guys think I should pull the trigger now or wait until Boxing Day for any possible deals? I have not shopped for major appliances for a long time so I don't know what kind of deals to expect for BD and whether they apply towards ALL appliances or only select models.

Thanks. 

P.S: We already gave the builder the models and dimensions for these appliances so we would most likely go with them. That being said, if you guys have feedback on these models, I am always all ears.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

http://www.bellissimoappliances.com...ategory_id=57&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=18

Your fridge for $400 less. I think you should buy when you need the appliances...there are deals all the time.

If you have a pickup why not buy them in the USA? I bought a convection oven here for $1500 cheaper than in Canada...cue all the guys freaking out about warranty lol.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

canabiz said:


> Folks, we are shopping for appliances for our new place (closing date next April so we do have a bit of time) and Future Shop currently has a *save-the-tax* promo. I have not read all the fine prints but I understand we can't combine that with any other promo or discount.
> 
> Do you guys think I should pull the trigger now or wait until Boxing Day for any possible deals? I have not shopped for major appliances for a long time so I don't know what kind of deals to expect for BD and whether they apply towards ALL appliances or only select models.


Lets see 13% on $8600 is $468 as a percentage of the total amount it's
about 5% discount. ($860 would be a 10% discount).

I don't think that's much of a deal.

Not sure where you live but I would be checking out Leon's, Home-Depot, Lowes, and Sears. 



> P.S: We already gave the builder the models and dimensions for these appliances so we would most likely go with them. That being said, if you guys have feedback on these models, I am always all ears.


Unless you have specific reasons to buy those models, you can match up
the dimensions with other brands as well. Most fridges/stoves/dishwashers
and washer/dryers come in standard sizes, so unless it's a specialty appliance,
you should be able to shop around and getter a MUCH better deal, IMO.

I would never buy that many appliances just to save 5% discount on the tax,
which you still have to pay, it's just a sales gimmick to get you in the door.
Other retail outlets such as Sears have appliance sales occassionally for
30% off. *If you are buying that many appliances (nearly $9000 worth),
you can go to any appliance retail store and negotiate yourself a better deal.*
You would be a fool to commit for just a 5% discount on that kind of 
appliance purchase. IMO, don't fall for it!


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks for the links Eder, I will at least try to price-match that with FutureShop and see what they have to say lol.

I would prefer to buy appliances as soon as we can and have them delivered to our new place in April for the following reasons.

1. I don't have a pick-up truck nor do I know people who have one. Minivans and SUVs, yes, pick-up no. When you factor in the cost of possibly renting a truck and driving down to Toronto (I am in Ottawa) to bring the fridge back here, I am afraid it will all work out in the wash. Not to mention we don't currently have storage space for this fridge and other appliances anyway.

2. We will have the contractors coming in to do the flooring and other work after taking possession. We are also getting our current house ready for sale prior to moving in the new place. Needless to say, if we can get the appliances out of the way, that would give us time to tend to other things. Hate to make it sound like an excuse but it is what it is.

I don't know if there will be any (good) appliances deals after the holidays so we would like to make our purchase by this Boxing Days. Guess I just have to keep my eyes open and ears to the ground.

Thanks.


----------



## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

I will never spend big bucks for appliances again. I have a 3 year old LG Fridge (>$3500) and gas stove (>$2500). Our fridge turned out to be a major lemon. The most recent issue with it was found when my wife smelled burning plastic, and tracked it down to the overhead light in the fridge. It was close to causing a fire. Our stove has performed well, but if I could go back in time, I'd purchase a $1000-1500 gas stove which I'm sure would have functioned just as well.

This weekend we're going washer / dryer shopping. We will NOT be buying the $2000 - $3000 pair. We're putting a $1200 limit on the pair. My guess is that my cloths will be just as clean as if we had spent $3000 for the pair.

Before using your front load washer, make sure to research the odour / mold problems with these machines. It's easy to avoid (ie: leave the door ajar to let the drum dry out thoroughy after each use), but can be a real problem if you don't learn what you need to do.

Btw, my main drive in not spending as much is due to my focus on savings for retirement. The end goal for me is much more important than having the latest and greatest appliances.


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

carverman, we have already done our homework and without going into too much details, here are something we learnt so far.

1. Sears does not carry this particular LG fridge and washer/dryer. They tried to steer me towards Kenmore which is their own in-house brand. Nothing wrong with that but my wife has her eyes set on those models. I am done arguing with her (I am sure you can relate lol) so we decide to roll with the punches. As they say, happy wife = happy life.

2. Corbeil on Pinecrest near IKEA actually has the best prices but it has an F rating with the Better Business Bureau and the Internet reviews (taken with a grain of salt obviously) is downright brutal

3. Home Depot does not carry Bosch dishwashers and we can only book 3 months out in advance.

4. I got the commercial rate from the Brick and it's not lower than FS. I will try Leon's just for my peace of mind but I am not sure if they carry these specific models.

P.S: Not sure if your math is off but 13% for $8,600 is $1,118

Thanks for the feedback! Like I said, i don't buy appliances every year so I am curious to see what kind of deals can be had for Boxing Days.


----------



## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Last year sales where pretty impressive in January for appliances. Most stores have a sales slump in jan / feb and there are deals abound then. I'm in ottawa as well, I wouldn't focus on boxing day but a few weeks later.

I ended up getting an LG washer dryer pair for $1200 all in last year!


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

jamesbe said:


> Last year sales where pretty impressive in January for appliances. Most stores have a sales slump in jan / feb and there are deals abound then. I'm in ottawa as well, I wouldn't focus on boxing day but a few weeks later.
> 
> I ended up getting an LG washer dryer pair for $1200 all in last year!


We may hold off and wait until January then James. Do appliances work like cars and some other products where the salespeople need to fulfill certain quotas and there are more rooms to negotiate at the end of the month?


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Another thing, even with the 30% off, which most appliance stores will give
you anyway..is the warranty service issue.

If you buy in the US from a dealer there, unless you have a special arrangement before the purchase and delivery, you may not have an
warranty service included for appliances delivered to Canada. That means
you would have to purchase a warranty here at considerable cost.

Another thing is that most appliances these days have microcontrollers,
fridges, dishwashers, washers and dryers. If these fail for some reason, the
repairs will be very expensive without an extended warranty.

My son about 5 years ago, bought a top of the line GE side by side fridge with
chilled water/ice maker dispensor in the door from Sears Canada (Toronto).

The fridge stopped working about 4 months after the 1 year manufacturers
warranty expired. He didn't purchase an extended warranty at the time
deciding to take his chances. 

The Sears service guy came two or three times and couldn't seem to repair the fridge, even though he changed circuit board and other parts. In the end, he complained to Sears head office about his situation, and they gave him a loaner fridge while they tried to figure out what was wrong with his.

To make a rather long story short (of several weeks) Sears decided to replace
that GE fridge with another make for just the additional cost of what the
extended warranty would have cost him in the first place as customer goodwill.

He bought an extended warranty on the second fridge.

So expect that anything that has circuit boards and microcontrollers-digital
displays could require servicing at some point in its lifetime.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't think you should rush for this. This is a pretty competitive market and you have lots of time. Boxing Day sales are the height of human madness. Usually they want to clear specific stuff out and there is no guarantee they'll have marked down the item you want. This is also too early to fixate on a specific brand. I think you need to shop around some more.

Also, are you ready to pay cash/cc upfront for these items? Remember you won't be saving much if you have to pay for a store card/membership to pay in 15 months or whatever. They make a lot of money on those things.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

canabiz said:


> We may hold off and wait until January then James. Do appliances work like cars and some other products where the salespeople need to fulfill certain quotas and there are more rooms to negotiate at the end of the month?


You should be able to negotiate a better deal anytime with most.
Some appliance dealers like Home Depot even offer 12 months payment free/interest free on major appliances... if put on their H-D card.

Others offer the same deal but only 6 months grace (Lowes, maybe
Sears). The catch is that you need to apply for their CC and put the
appliance purchase on their CC to take advantage of the extended
period. Bear in mind that the store interest rate is around 30% compounded,
so if you want to do it that way..you mark the "drop dead" date on your
calendar and pay at the store 1-2 days ahead of time, so they cannot
charge you any interest for the 6 or 12 months that you have used the
appliances and still haven't paid anything down. Some appliance stores
will ask for a down payment for the taxes due, others won't. Some
like Leons offer free delivery, others don't.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

canabiz said:


> We may hold off and wait until January then James. Do appliances work like cars and some other products where the salespeople need to fulfill certain quotas and there are more rooms to negotiate at the end of the month?


I don't know about the end of the month, but more at the end of the season when the new "and improved" stock has arrived. I bought all mine in the spring that way for about half price

I'm kind of disgusted by consumer NA appliances now. They're loaded with gimmicks and features and cost a small fortune but they are horribly unreliable and made of cheap plastic parts behind a stainless steel skin. You're spending $8k on appliances just be aware they'll probably need to be replaced sooner than you think

I like euro appliances. Better material and a lot less gimmicks and electrical things to break. No clocks that you need to reset twice a year or water dispensers or wash cycles you'll never use etc. A good way to buy appliances is probably to find those warehouses with "scratched" or "dinged" discounted stock


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I avoid buying big ticket items at places like Futureshop because I hate the commission sales tactics, but if you want to play their game agree to all the things he offers such as extended warranty (which they will drag their feet forever if you ever try to use, whereas credit card warranties are hassle free) they will negotiate much more if you agree to all these scams as they get tracked/paid for those things they're told to push. Then go back a week later with your receipt and return those extras because you "changed your mind" The negotiated price of appliances stays the same


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> I'm kind of disgusted by consumer NA appliances now. *They're loaded with gimmicks and features and cost a small fortune but they are horribly unreliable and made of cheap plastic parts behind a stainless steel skin. * You're spending $8k on appliances just be aware they'll probably need to be replaced sooner than you think


That is very true these days. While the appliances are loaded with digital gimmicks and control boards, the reliabilty these days is questionable on
many of them. You used to get 10 years plus out of a fridge.
Now they make them with the cheaper compressors (made in china) and electronic controlled circuit boards. IFyou get 5 years+ of service
without any problems..you are doing good. You just can't take a chance
on these without buying the extended warranty..which by the way is only
good for 3 years after the manufacturer's 1 year warranty expires..what
does that tell you about these modern appliances?

My son bought a top of the line GE fridge with digital readout blah-blah, chilled water dispensor etc..it lasted 16 months then quit working. Sears guy
came out 2-3 times changed a few parts and couldn't get it working correctly,
yes it ran, but it just wouldn't freeze things in the freezer part..Sears, removed it, took it to their shop and determined it was the compressor and
decided to give him a new model in exchange. 16 months of service from
the latest and greatest wiz bang high tech fridge!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

canabiz said:


> carverman, we have already done our homework and without going into too much details, here are something we learnt so far.
> 
> 1. Sears does not carry this particular LG fridge and washer/dryer. They tried to steer me towards Kenmore which is their own in-house brand. Nothing wrong with that but my wife has her eyes set on those models. I am done arguing with her (I am sure you can relate lol) so we decide to roll with the punches. *As they say, happy wife = happy life*.


Well..ok, your mileage may vary as they say. 



> 2. Corbeil on Pinecrest near IKEA actually has the best prices but it has an F rating with the Better Business Bureau and the Internet reviews (taken with a grain of salt obviously) is downright brutal.


I would never deal with Corbeil..'nuff said!



> 3. Home Depot does not carry Bosch dishwashers and we can only book 3 months out in advance.


Lowes carrys Bosch appliances, I saw some at their Kanata store on 
Hazeldean Rd. 



> 4. I got the commercial rate from the Brick and it's not lower than FS. I will try Leon's just for my peace of mind but I am not sure if they carry these specific models.


I wouldn't spend a dime at the Brick. 
I have bought a economy model Fridgedaire 20 cuft fridge from Leon's.
Free delivery and setup on the fridge.
Bought it without extended warranty and so far it's working great,
but this one has the traditional controls, not those micro controller digital
board gizmos..which in my experience is just another thing to go wrong, eventually.




> P.S: Not sure if your math is off but 13% for $8,600 is $1,118


yes, you are absolutely right.  
My mind wasn't fully awake this morning when I made that calculation, 
didn't have the first cuppa java to get it going. 

Well, then that's a lot better discount. So if you are actually getting
that much of a discount on top of the 30% off from the retail, it's
perhaps not a bad deal..

but nobody sells appliances at the suggested retail price anyway,
and there is always negotiating room if you are buying that
many. So do your shopping around first and convince yourself that
the FS deal is the best there is in Ottawa. If it is, then its probably
not a bad deal for you.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

carverman said:


> yes, you are absolutely right.
> My mind wasn't fully awake this morning when I made that calculation,
> didn't have the first cuppa java to get it going.


I was wondering.... I think your post essentially boiled down to 13% = 5%.


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Just a quick note that I stopped by Leon's on the way home and they don't carry Bosch dishwashers as well (not sure if that's the case in other cities?) 

Not the end of the world if we don't get a Bosch dishwashers but if other shops carry them and have good deals, we have to entertain the offers. Leon's can only hold prices for 3 months so the sales guys advise me to come back in January.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I was wondering.... I think your post essentially boiled down to 13% = 5%.


Well..ahem...seniors moment (brain f**t) whatever..
I usually use a calculator..but this time, I got caught.he! he! trying to
use the old melon without that morning caffeine jolt..I'm sure some of
you from the younger generation will understand...

I'm paraphasing the lyrics from an old depression song as applicable to me..where a hobo panhandler comes up to a guy on the street. 

"Buddy can you spare a dime"

"Once I built an telecommunication empire (at Nortel) made it run,
fixed a lot of it's problems by the ton, 
now it's, ( and my brain) is done....
...Buddy... can you spare a dime?


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

canabiz said:


> Just a quick note that I stopped by Leon's on the way home and they don't carry Bosch dishwashers as well (not sure if that's the case in other cities?)


I didn't specifically mention that Leon's carries Bosch. 



> Not the end of the world if we don't get a Bosch dishwashers but if other shops carry them and have good deals, we have to entertain the offers. Leon's can only hold prices for 3 months so the sales guys advise me to come back in January.


Try Lowes in Kanata..I think they carry Bosch appliances.. 
apply for their store credit card and you will get a deferred payment
deal..they are H-D's main competition, so they will match most prices
on most models. 

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogD...Id=10151&N=0&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&rpp=24
type in Bosch dishwasher in the search field...and you will get several Bosch
models...sigh!!!!!

Why am I starting to sound like a mother hen? cluck! cluck! cluck!


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Most stores have delivery for $50 which can be waived if you buy a few. 

Personally I would not have another fancy digital oven in my house. I had one and from the moment I got it the circuit board didn't work, then they were backordered. I bought the piece of crap in August I begged the repair guy to come back as I wanted to cook a turkey for Thanksgiving. He scammed a board from another stove to try to make it work. It still didn't work. What a nightmare. For a while (until it quit working entirely) I had to periodically pull out my stove, unplug it, and the top burners would continue working. 

I threw it out that day and bought a $50 stove from kijiji to cook my turkey. It's still working...

Same thing with all the stoves we buy for the buildings. No fancy crap and they work forever and can be fixed. No digital ovens for me thank you very much. 

Another thing you should be aware of with Future Shop is that they are a bunch of scammers. They order unique model numbers from manufacturers so that you can't price match. For example, their Bosch dishwasher would be model 45678 - A and everywhere else the same dishwasher model number is 12345. The dishwashers are identical. Therefore you cannot price match their products. 

Another time I tried to price match something that was identical from Future Shop and they outright refused. In the fine print their price match says it's 10% of the difference, rather than 10% off the lower price. 

Another interesting fact is that some of the major brands are made by the same manufacturers but have different brand names and prices but are identical. When I bought my dishwasher it was identical seeming to another dishwasher that was $100 more but was branded Whirlpool. A little investigating revealed that they are the same dishwasher made by the same manufacturer in the same factory different name labels. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...makes-all-those-appliances/overview/index.htm

I would wait until the construction is finished before buying anyways. When you get here go appliance shopping and get them delivered. No problem. Other than that you could also keep an eye on kijiji and craigslist, some people just decide to buy brand new appliances for wifey during the holidays for no good reason.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yea Futureshop does have unique model numbers for their "exclusive" products. I don't know about all, but when I research electronics the Futureshop "exclusives" are watered down versions, replacing power supplies with underpowered ones and cheaping out where ever they think "spec" shoppers don't notice.

I've also heard lots of stories about their warranties being nightmares to claim. They have lots of tricks to get out of paying. I pretty much refuse to buy anything from big box stores if I can avoid them.

Whirlpool did buy Maytag and now charges more for the "Whirlpool" logo. Rebranding is also common in many industries because people will pay more for certain brand names. A lot of times it's hard to research as well, but with appliances you can see the similarities.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Yea Futureshop does have unique model numbers for their "exclusive" products. I don't know about all, but when I research electronics the Futureshop "exclusives" are watered down versions, *replacing power supplies with underpowered ones and cheaping out where ever they think "spec" shoppers don't notice.*


Everything is made more cheaply these days. A lot of the components (fridge
compressors)that were made in the US are now made in China and other
places (Mexico) because of cheaper labour and cheaper materials..that
way the companies that own the brands can maximize their profits on the
appliances they sell. 


[/quote]
Whirlpool did buy Maytag and now charges more for the "Whirlpool" logo. *Rebranding is also common in many industries because people will pay more for certain brand names.* A lot of times it's hard to research as well, but with appliances you can see the similarities.[/QUOTE]

Camco bought out GE appliances. Electrolux vacumn cleaners bought out
Fridgeaire. The list goes on and on...about half a dozen major brands
now own most of the appliance brands out there..except for maybe Bosch.

My Fridgedaire (which used to be GM?) is now owned by a vacumn cleaner
company. 

{from online sources}
The company that owns Frigidaire is Electrolux. Other brands included here are Gibson, White-Westinghouse, Kelvinator, etc. These brands certainly do meet a price point in the appliance market, but they have never been extremely high in quality or lifespan. It all depends on your expectations. 
{endquote}

I just bought my fridge this year. I expect it to last 5 years+.

My old energy consuming Whirlpool was still working after 15 years.
with no problems. I went for the simplest electrical design so about
the only thing that could go wrong with the new one is the compressor,
which has a prorated 5 year warranty. In the 5th year, you get a token
10% of the replacement compressor cost, which would cost me several hundred because the fridge has to be taken to/from a repair shop (cost of movers $100) + evacuating/new compressor/recharge freon costs $300 to $400)..cheaper just to buy a new one at that point..and they know that!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> Personally I would not have another fancy digital oven in my house. I had one and from the moment I got it the circuit board didn't work, then they were backordered. I bought the piece of crap in August I begged the repair guy to come back as I wanted to cook a turkey for Thanksgiving. He scammed a board from another stove to try to make it work. It still didn't work. What a nightmare. For a while (until it quit working entirely) I had to periodically pull out my stove, unplug it, and the top burners would continue working.


Sounds like you went through the same hassle with the digital control board
that my son did with his fancy digital display GE top of the line fridge that
Sears couldn't fix right after 2-3 service calls, had to take it into the shop
after the 3rd service call back. It was costing them too much to service it!

Fortunately, for him, they gave him loaner fridge during the 3-4 weeks that
that nonsense went on, so he could keep the milk and other food from
spoiling. It was a nice looking 2 door fancy fridge, but it wasn't reliable
after it literally "blew" something inside. He heard a small explosion noise
and the fridge stop working!



> I threw it out that day and bought a $50 stove from kijiji to cook my turkey. It's still working...


The only digital thing on my 15 year old range is the clock..and I can still
use it even if it stopped working since I never use the oven timer to cook
the odd roast or a frozen pizza. 



> Same thing with all the stoves we buy for the buildings. No fancy crap and they work forever and can be fixed. No digital ovens for me thank you very much.


Same here "B"...I used to work for Nortel and quite aware of digital failures
everywhere in the world..it kept me in a job for 25 years until retirement.
Sooner or later, digital controlled things are prone to failure. Even with
an extended warranty, it can still be a hassle, when the appliance fails
as you are cooking that turkey on a holiday when every service shop
is closed!



> Another thing you should be aware of with Future Shop is that they are a bunch of scammers. They order unique model numbers from manufacturers so that you can't price match. For example, their Bosch dishwasher would be model 45678 - A and everywhere else the same dishwasher model number is 12345. The dishwashers are identical. Therefore you cannot price match their products.


Futureshop is owned by Bestbuy, so in electronics they play a sneaky competition game between themselves. So with huge distribution in US/
Canada, I'm not surprised that they would play the game in the hugely
competitive appliance market by having their own model numbers
direct from the manufacturers, so you can't exactly price compare.
It's the "Americanization of Canada" when it comes to retail. 

{from online sources}
2001 -- The acquisition of Canada-based Future Shop Ltd. marks Best Buy’s entrance to the international marketplace; DSN Retailing Today names Best Buy “Specialty Retailer of the Decade”; Best Buy acquires Musicland, a mall -based retailer for music and entertainment software; Best Buy launches Redline Entertainment, an independent music label and action-sports video distributor. {endquote}




> Another interesting fact is that some of the major brands are made by the same manufacturers but have different brand names and prices but are identical. When I bought my dishwasher it was identical seeming to another dishwasher that was $100 more but was branded Whirlpool. A little investigating revealed that they are the same dishwasher made by the same manufacturer in the same factory different name labels.
> 
> 
> > Pretty much most of the brandnames out there are owned by just a handful
> ...


----------



## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

So is anyone able to recommend a particular brand of kitchen appliances, based on fairly recent experience? I am going to have to replace everything - fridge, dishwasher, electric stove, and over-the-stove fan - in the not-too-distant future. I've heard so many horror stories from friends and relatives about their disastrous experiences with new appliances, sometimes with very expensive brands. Obviously I don't want to spend more than I have to, but price is not my main concern - if I could be sure they would last for a reasonable time, I'd gladly spend more money on them.


----------



## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Karen, unfortunately I doubt that anyone can give you assurances based on their recent experience. Short of developing a time machine to go 20 years into the future to see if their appliances would still be working, there's no real way to know. 

The supply chain these days is very unstable and unpredictable. I seriously doubt that a refridgerator made 8 years ago, that may be working fine today, is made at the same plant ... or with the same parts manufacturers. Companies are constantly trying to reduce their costs.

That being said, your best bet is to get your hands on some recent testing by consumer protection organizations. Their recommendations are at least based on side-by-side comparisons after fairly rigorous testing.

I can however tell you that my 17 year old Kenmore washer, originally made by Whirlpool is still going strong, and our 31.5 year old Hotpoint dryer finally konked out which we've decided to replace with a new GE model. No we're not going to replace both, as I'm not willing to risk replacing the washer with something I don't trust will last more the 8 years.


----------



## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

You're right of course, mind_business, and I realized after I posted that it wasn't the most brilliant of questions! I wasn't looking for any kind of projection 20 years into the future, just a good chance that the appliances are not likely to die shortly after the warranty expires, as has happened to several people I know. My inexpensive, very basic model Moffatt fridge is 23 years old and has never even needed servicing. It's still working, but it's beginning to make strange noises, so I don't expect it to last much longer. I know I won't find another that will last that long, but then, I'm not likely to either, so that shouldn't be a problem!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> So is anyone able to recommend a particular brand of kitchen appliances, based on fairly recent experience? Obviously I don't want to spend more than I have to, but price is not my main concern - *if I could be sure they would last for a reasonable time, I'd gladly spend more money on them.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Karen, are you good at gambling and have beginner's luck on your side?
> 
> ...


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> just a good chance that the appliances are not likely to die shortly after the warranty expires, as has happened to several people I know.


The manufacturers and retail stores know that, that's why they sell extended
warranties (so much per year per appliance) for "peace of mind"..if you're
lucky, you may never need to collect on the appliance until the extended
warranty expires..then you are on your own again.


*My inexpensive, very basic model Moffatt fridge is 23 years old and has never even needed servicing.* It's still working, but it's beginning to make strange noises, so I don't expect it to last much longer. [/quoe]

You did well to get 23 years out of your Moffat. I would suspect that the
compressor bearings are probably on their last portion of their lifespan.
If the bearings run dry of grease or become noisy, it could mean compressor
failure (the most common failure) but it also depends on how those bearings
are lubricated, as there is compressor oil in the refrigerant tubes to lubricate
them.


> I know I won't find another that will last that long, but then, I'm not likely to either, so that shouldn't be a problem!


Well as we both know by now, there are no manufacturer guarantees with us,
and if we can get 5 years + maybe 10 out of the new appliances they make
with the lighter/cheaper energy efficient compressors, we are doing well.

Expect to replace it sooner than your previous Moffat, because compressor
repairs are just too expensive these days, and in a new fridge that IS the
weakest link.


----------



## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Carverman, you sound like a Luddite lol. Just because there is a circuit board it doesn't mean it will only last a few years. I work in the electronics industry, heck we have product that is used in critical applications that have been out working for 25+ years without failure in extreme locations. 

If I were buying a new electric stove today it would be induction, you do not need new pots and pans, you just have to use ones that are magnetic as that is how it works, so if you have aluminum pots yes you will need new ones, but most pots and pans will work just fine. It will save you on electricity costs and they heat much better and are more controllable than those crappy light bulb stoves.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

The more components in a device, the more things can break and need $$$ servicing. The best machines are the simplest machines that do what they were built to do and with the fewest electronics!


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

jamesbe said:


> Carverman, you sound like a Luddite lol. Just because there is a circuit board it doesn't mean it will only last a few years. I work in the electronics industry, heck we have product that is used in *critical applications that have been out working for 25+ years* without failure in extreme locations.


I agree electronics *can be* extremely reliable if they are designed to be. Solid state technology for example. The thing is consumer electronics are designed to look shiny and have as many "selling point" features as possible. If they designed them to last, their profits would go way down



the-royal-mail said:


> The more components in a device, the more things can break and need $$$ servicing. The best machines are the simplest machines that do what they were built to do and with the fewest electronics!


Surely the less moving parts and complications, the more robust something will be. It also comes down to the quality of the parts insides, which they can skimp on because you can't see them. Complicated things can be reliable it just costs more. You can also design things to be easy to replace the parts you expect to break, which is the opposite of what they do with appliances


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

jamesbe said:


> *Carverman, you sound like a Luddite lol*. Just because there is a circuit board it doesn't mean it will only last a few years. I work in the electronics industry, heck we have product that is used in critical applications that have been out working for 25+ years without failure in extreme locations.


Maybe I am now..when I'm paying for things out of my reduced pension.

With my son's experience with a top of the line GE fridge with a microcontroller (even though it turned out not to be the microcontroller, because the board was substituted and it still wouldn't cool)..I tend to
stay away from anything that has sensors and microcontrollers..
if at all avoidable.

Some household items with digital controls, we can't avoid buying, as there is no other way the item comes, but when it comes to fridges, they must be
reliable 100% of the time, or my $200 to $250 worth of frozen and other food spoils.

I tend to subscribe to the "KISS" rule..and I'm sure that IF you are employed in high tech, you are probably familiar with that acronymn.



> If I were buying a new electric stove today it would be induction, you do not need new pots and pans, you just have to use ones that are magnetic as that is how it works, so if you have aluminum pots yes you will need new ones, but most pots and pans will work just fine. *It will save you on electricity costs and they heat much better* and are more controllable than those crappy light bulb stoves.


Well maybe so, but until the price of these induction stoves comes down to
about the same as a regular nospill top range..I'll keep that $2500 in my
pocket, and use my 17 year old Danby microwave that does have a microcontroller and pushbuttons..However, after 17 years it still works,
so it has proven its reliablilty to me. 

Other newfangled microprocessor appliances..
well lets say, I'm not from the "Amish old school view" of technology, since
I worked in high tech (Nortel) for 25 years and familar with failures with
digital eqt. I'm not saying that everything out there that is digital/high tech
is prone to failure..but for some reason, these new appliances seem to have
more than their share of early failures.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> The more components in a device, the more things can break and need $$$ servicing. The best machines are the simplest machines that do what they were built to do and with the fewest electronics!


Yes, I have a 20 year old used GE heavy duty washer with the old clock motor timer that goes around, and you pull on the knob to start the wash
cycle. You can program different wash cycles by spinning the timer to different places..simple controls.

Maybe the older washer motor consumes a bit more electricity, and you have the old fashioned agitator to deal with....but after 20 years, it's still working like a charm and never had a breakdown.
I expect it will outlast me.


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Hey guys, just a quick update. I did end up buying those 5 appliances at Future Shop over the weekend.

I was able to price-match with Canadian Appliances (based out of Toronto) and saved almost $1,500 in the process. I live 5 minutes from this FutureShop location so I love the fact I can walk in anytime with printouts from other places that have lower prices and they will adjust the prices for me (I have already done this twice)

What I did was I get a bot to monitor the respective HomeDepot, Sears, Lowe's, the Brick, Leon's etc pages and got notified via email when something changes. I am free to do this until the delivery date of next April so let's see how much more I can save lol. 

Thanks again for your feedback and we can now concentrate on some other stuff.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

canabiz said:


> Hey guys, just a quick update. I did end up buying those 5 appliances at Future Shop over the weekend.
> 
> What I did was I *get a bot to monitor* the respective HomeDepot, Sears, Lowe's, the Brick, Leon's etc pages and got notified via email when something changes. I am free to do this until the delivery date of next April so let's see how much more I can save lol.


You mean like a "fembot"? 

Glad your appliance dilema is more or less settled. And if they let you
price match until next april, that's good also.


----------



## petea4 (Dec 24, 2010)

Over the last couple years I've purchase my appliances from these guys:
http://www.wisebuyhome.com/

Great prices. Saved a bunch.


----------

