# Incredible Amazon shipping..... but.



## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

On Saturday afternoon, I ordered a new inkjet printer and a spare package of ink cartridges using regular Amazon free shipping, not 'Prime'. The printer comes with ink, but I figured that I'd get some extra. The expected delivery was shown as Friday 5 Oct. Fine, that's O.K. by me; there's nothing I really really need to print at the moment that can't wait a few more days.

This morning, I got an e-mail saying that 'to serve me better' they have shipped part of my order; it will be delivered today! What part of the order, you ask? The spare ink. I just got another e-mail with an attached photo of my front door and the package there. So now I have ink cartridges, but no printer to put them in. I expect that the printer will be delivered before Friday, because I've usually had other Amazon orders arrive before their expected delivery. 

So absolutely fantastic service, great job; but unfortunately of no tangible value to me. 

I'm not complaining; this isn't a rant. Just that why this is so amusing for me is that way back around 1972, when a room full of computer had the processing power of today's smartphone, I worked for what was known then as Simpson's Sears in the data processing department. I was mostly involved in the automation of catalogue order fulfillment. We were concerned with the 'to-follow' processing. If someone ordered a door and hinges, for example, but the door was back-ordered, would we ship the hinges and tell the customer the door was to follow in a subsequent shipment, or hold the order for one shipping? OTOH if the door was in stock, but not the hinges, should we not ship the door, and ask the customer if they still want the hinges, or just go get them at their local hardware? Fun stuff; we spent a lot of time figuring out how that could be programmed. Now here we are, over 45 years later, and apparently we still haven't.:rolleyes2:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> So absolutely fantastic service, great job; but unfortunately of no tangible value to me.


 ... yes there is a tangible value. In fact - 2 free shippings. 

They don't care that you need the new printer first or they assumed that you need the ink first. 

Maybe common sense returns when AI is installed and then they tell you what's the problem ... or suggest you're smarter than AI?


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Amazon's standard shipping is pretty fast. I actually cancelled my Prime membership after a year because the Prime shipping wasn't any faster than the free "super saver" shipping. This might depend on where you live, though.

Prime does offer some exclusive discounts, but it was rarely on products I wanted.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> ... yes there is a tangible value. In fact - 2 free shippings.


The word 'tangible' - meaning perceptible by touch ( from the Latin 'tangere' ). Yes, I can touch the ink cartridges themselves, but not derive the value of a tangible print-out produced from them. Perhaps then I should have said 'usable'?

Shipping is not tangible... unless maybe you touch the courier.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Your description was tangible *value.* 

And from dictionary.com,



> tangible adjective
> 1. capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; *material or substantial.*
> 2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary:
> eg. the tangible benefits of sunshine.
> 3. *definite*; not vague or elusive:


And thus, the shipping has a tangible value. Amazon could have charged for the shippings, if not given free.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> And thus, the shipping has a tangible value. Amazon could have charged for the shippings, if not given free.


Oh boy, this thread is heading downward rapidly into semantics. 

Sorry, I just thought it was amusing that after 45 years of exponential computer processing power, a silly problem of automated order fulfillment encountered in 1972 could still be around today.


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

Interesting story, UK, thanks for sharing.
Maintaining the semantic theme, however, I'm not sure Amazon (or you) sees the double delivery as "a problem."
Amazon may have been delivering from two separate facilities. Or, given the size difference between the two items, bundling them into one package may have been harder or more expensive than shipping them separately. 
And though you cannot use your extra ink right now (write now?), you almost certainly don't mind having received it a few days before the printer.
I'm guessing that in your Sears days, keeping track of a partially filled order would have been headache. And double shipping would have been more costly.
Not anymore.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

* deleted as repeated post?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ And I wouldn't be surprised we'll (provided we're still around or earth still standing or printers haven't vanished) continue to be amused in year 2064 with a similar repeat.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Userkare said:


> Fun stuff; we spent a lot of time figuring out how that could be programmed. Now here we are, over 45 years later, and apparently we still haven't.:rolleyes2:


I suspect that Amazon doesn't put any effort into this conundrum as you did back in the day. I think as soon as one item is ship-able, it ships. I know at Christmas time I usually order a bunch of stuff for my grand-kids all on one order. I am always amused how it appears at the door in drips and drabs. 

The usual reason for this multiple shipping, I believe, is that Amazon not only ships products that they store at their fulfillment centers, they also sell for a multitude of business that feed the products through Amazon when it's ordered, so if you order four items, it could be one item from four businesses. Amazon won't receive those items all on the same day so they ship them whenever they receive them.

Probably the case with your printer and ink. And just to drive you nuts by taking the thread off topic - those cartridges that come with the printer have very, very little ink in them. I remember examining the cartridge that came out of a new printer I had one time as it lasted about a month, and it was the same size as a normal cartridge, but was basically filled with plastic, leaving a teeny reservoir of ink. Cheap buggers.

ltr


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

like_to_retire said:


> I suspect that Amazon doesn't put any effort into this conundrum as you did back in the day. I think as soon as one item is ship-able, it ships. I know at Christmas time I usually order a bunch of stuff for my grand-kids all on one order. I am always amused how it appears at the door in drips and drabs.
> 
> The usual reason for this multiple shipping, I believe, is that Amazon not only ships products that they store at their fulfillment centers, they also sell for a multitude of business that feed the products through Amazon when it's ordered, so if you order four items, it could be one item from four businesses. Amazon won't receive those items all on the same day so they ship them whenever they receive them.
> 
> ...


That all makes sense. In this case, both items are listed as sold and shipped by Amazon.ca - although it's possible they're warehoused in different locations? The wording of the initial e-mail early this morning was "_Thank you for shopping with us. We thought you'd like to know that this portion of your gift was shipped separately to give you quicker service. You won't be charged any extra shipping fees, and the remainder of your order will follow as soon as those items become available_." So it was done to give me quicker service, and didn't cost me any extra shipping, super!. The order page, at the time I placed it, showed over 10 printers in stock, so the wording "as those items become available" doesn't make much sense to me. The order page still shows printers in stock, one less than before ( mine? ), and my estimated delivery of the printer is still Friday. I'm not concerned; it's probably just the generic e-mail they send in the case of multiple shipments. 

Yes, I've encountered those phony cartridges with .1 uL of ink; just enough to run print test once. Hence why I ordered the real cartridges.



Beaver101 said:


> ^ And I wouldn't be surprised we'll (provided we're still around or earth still standing or printers haven't vanished) continue to be amused in year 2064 with a similar repeat.


Since I'm within a 10 minute drive from the new Amazon warehouse being built in Ottawa, I expect that by 2064 ( If I'm still around ) Amazon will be shipping me items in anticipation of my order based on AI prediction of what I might need at the moment. At 104 yrs old, probably cases of Depends and Polygrip.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

My experience with amazon

Lower 48 states - you usually get your entire order that day
Other states - comes sporadically in 3-4 days
Canada - comes sporadically in 2-3 days

I noticed that ink cartridges and cables were huge scams in retail stores, wonder if the ink cartridge scam carries over to amazon (cables are cheap there anyways) I haven't owned a printer in nearly 20 years and get by just fine


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Userkare said:


> The order page, at the time I placed it, showed over 10 printers in stock, so the wording "as those items become available" doesn't make much sense to me. The order page still shows printers in stock, one less than before ( mine? ), and my estimated delivery of the printer is still Friday. I'm not concerned; it's probably just the generic e-mail they send in the case of multiple shipments.


amazon specifies whether it is sold by amazon or a 3rd party. It sounds like a 3rd party here or amazon canada is not as refined as usa

I still think sears would have dominated this business if only someone at sears had heard of the internet


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

m3s said:


> I noticed that ink cartridges and cables were huge scams in retail stores, wonder if the ink cartridge scam carries over to amazon (cables are cheap there anyways) I haven't owned a printer in nearly 20 years and get by just fine
> 
> 
> amazon specifies whether it is sold by amazon or a 3rd party. It sounds like a 3rd party here or amazon canada is not as refined as usa
> ...


Not to descend into anti-semantics again, but I would say the printer/ink pricing is a "racket" more than a "scam". You should know up-front exactly what the printer and ink is going to cost you, and make an informed decision. Amazon was a few $ cheaper than elsewhere for the manufacturer's ink.

I don't print too much either, but do print photos ( for framing ), and electronic schematics on large 11"x17". My previous wide format printer hasn't had a driver update since Windows 95. It cost me over $500 way back then. The new replacement one is $160. The manufacturer's ink cartridges cost about half as much as the printer for the full set of 4 ( CYMK ). There are lots of cheaper alternatives available, and if that breaks the warranty, oh well. The biggest problem I had is when the printer is not used for a while and the ink dries out; it's a lot of work, wasted time, ink, and paper to get the colours right again.

As I said, both printer and ink cartridges are listed as sold from Amazon.ca. Maybe they don't have the same setup as the US, and need to ship from separate locations. Who knows?

Sears, yes. I've thought this before. They had such a head start on any competition for order taking and distribution to their stores and kiosk locations, yet they were asleep at the wheel on the information highway.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

Userkare said:


> So absolutely fantastic service, great job; but unfortunately of no tangible value to me.


So how is Amazon supposed to know for certain that there is no tangible value to you? Maybe you have more than one printer, and both use the same type of ink cartridge? If so, then getting the cartridges before the printer would be of value to you. Now multiply this scenario by all the inter-dependencies of product A vs. product B that Amazon sells, plus the personal circumstances of every client, and it would be insanity for them to try to define the logic of what not to ship separately. 

Instead, they go for simplicity and speed – if part of your order is ready, ship it now, and ship the rest later. 

Now if you really want to complain about shipping, let’s talk about Aliexpress. The last item I ordered from them took 2.5 months to arrive. I think the seller must have walked here from China with the package.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

m3s said:


> I still think sears would have dominated this business if only someone at sears had heard of the internet


Oh exactly! I can't believe Sears let this slip through their fingers. They were the kings of mail order in my day. Everyone would get their Sears catalogs and order stuff by mail, and they would deliver it with great efficiency. When the internet came of age, what the heck was Sears doing? Why didn't they see this as an exact extension of their already established mail order business that they essentially invented. How the hell did they go bankrupt? I'm still shaking my head. They could have been Amazon with a couple keystrokes.

ltr


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Userkare said:


> The manufacturer's ink cartridges cost about half as much as the printer for the full set of 4 ( CYMK ). There are lots of cheaper alternatives available, and if that breaks the warranty, oh well. The biggest problem I had is when the printer is not used for a while and the ink dries out; it's a lot of work, wasted time, ink, and paper to get the colours right again.


Yeah, I gave up on ink jet many years ago because I just didn't print enough to keep the ink from drying out and driving me nuts when I had to clean up the mess. I switched to laser printer and that works for my situation a lot better. You can let that printer sit for a month and then when you do use it, it's perfect. I have to say with Amazon there are incredible cheaper deals on cartridges compared to original equipment. They always seem to work as well for me and I say screw the warranty if that's the case.

ltr


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

nathan79 said:


> Amazon's standard shipping is pretty fast. I actually cancelled my Prime membership after a year because the Prime shipping wasn't any faster than the free "super saver" shipping. This might depend on where you live, though.
> 
> Prime does offer some exclusive discounts, but it was rarely on products I wanted.


Prime membership is not very useful for free shipping. I live in the GTA and get everything pretty quickly. I did order something recently and it took them a week to ship it.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Userkare said:


> On Saturday afternoon, I ordered a new inkjet printer and a spare package of ink cartridges using regular Amazon free shipping, not 'Prime'. The printer comes with ink, but I figured that I'd get some extra. The expected delivery was shown as Friday 5 Oct. Fine, that's O.K. by me; there's nothing I really really need to print at the moment that can't wait a few more days.
> 
> This morning, I got an e-mail saying that 'to serve me better' they have shipped part of my order; it will be delivered today! What part of the order, you ask? The spare ink. I just got another e-mail with an attached photo of my front door and the package there. So now I have ink cartridges, but no printer to put them in. I expect that the printer will be delivered before Friday, because I've usually had other Amazon orders arrive before their expected delivery.
> 
> ...


My guess is that the printer is a 'ship alone' item, in which case the ink cartridges couldn't have been included to have one shipment. And on why they might ship quicker than necessary, if they have people in the warehouse and they have worked through their queue, they might as prepare lower priority orders and ship them. This is why you often get 'super saver' shipping much earlier. They are reserving the right to delay shipping to you in case a lot of higher priority orders come in and they fall behind.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Mookie said:


> So how is Amazon supposed to know for certain that there is no tangible value to you? Maybe you have more than one printer, and both use the same type of ink cartridge? If so, then getting the cartridges before the printer would be of value to you. Now multiply this scenario by all the inter-dependencies of product A vs. product B that Amazon sells, plus the personal circumstances of every client, and it would be insanity for them to try to define the logic of what not to ship separately.
> 
> Instead, they go for simplicity and speed – if part of your order is ready, ship it now, and ship the rest later.
> 
> Now if you really want to complain about shipping, let’s talk about Aliexpress. The last item I ordered from them took 2.5 months to arrive. I think the seller must have walked here from China with the package.


In 2.5 months they can take 6 weeks to manufacture and 5 weeks to ship.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Mookie said:


> So how is Amazon supposed to know for certain that there is no tangible value to you? Maybe you have more than one printer, and both use the same type of ink cartridge? If so, then getting the cartridges before the printer would be of value to you. Now multiply this scenario by all the inter-dependencies of product A vs. product B that Amazon sells, plus the personal circumstances of every client, and it would be insanity for them to try to define the logic of what not to ship separately.
> 
> Instead, they go for simplicity and speed – if part of your order is ready, ship it now, and ship the rest later.
> 
> Now if you really want to complain about shipping, let’s talk about Aliexpress. The last item I ordered from them took 2.5 months to arrive. I think the seller must have walked here from China with the package.


That's the dilemma that we were trying to solve those 45 years ago at Sears..... How to create a hierarchical tree of product interdependence to determine when not to look stupid by shipping a partial order that made absolutely no sense. If someone ordered a door and hinges, and the door was back-ordered, how could we know for certain that the hinges weren't for another door and the customer wanted them shipped right away, even without the door? In that example, hinges are generic, so it's more likely than a barbecue grill and a cover. If the grill was back ordered, should the cover be sent alone? The cover is for a specific range of grills, so it is possible the customer has another grill that the cover fits, but how likely is that? If not, and they decide to change the order for a completely different size grill in stock, there's the additional shipping cost and customer inconvenience to return the cover. I guess it was a bigger concern back then as it is today; maybe the price of shipping has come down so much it's inconsequential. But, oh my, what about the carbon footprint?

In my Amazon case, it's not a matter that the printer is back-ordered; it's expected to arrive later in the week. It's possible logistically that if the items are warehoused in two different locations, to make two shipments rather than send one item to join the other is more efficient. For my amusement, it's just the 'optics' of the situation in my particular personal circumstances. 

Human thinking is not always logical and efficient, so things may seem strange to us that make sense to a digital brain. If you want a mind exercise, think about programming an elevator algorithm. If you get on at the 10th floor and select Lobby at the exact time someone presses the down button on the 11th floor. It would be more efficient for the elevator to go up one floor and take that passenger with you to a lower floor. Of course that would make you very unhappy, so the elevator must first take you to the lobby, then go back up to the 11th floor to pick up that passenger. Sometimes digital thinking must take human perception into consideration.

China shipping... Yes, I once chose Hong Kong Post for a PCB fabrication order b/c I wasn't sure about DHL or Fed Ex brokerage fees. It took something like 3 months whereas the couriers would have been a week or so - and as it turns out, brokerage included.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Userkare said:


> Sometimes digital thinking must take human perception into consideration.


I programmed microprocessors like what would control car switches and elevators. Did you know we put placebo buttons just to give people the illusion of control? This is taking human perception into consideration lol. Hint some elevator buttons do nothing. I had a placebo thermostat in my dorm once so I replaced it with a real one

For the shipping, some websites just ask "do you want everything shipped together" Seems to be the simplest solution


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Amazon actually charges a premium to ship separately as available.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm not a member of Prime, and often I'll order something that totals just under the free shipping available with an order > $35. The last time, I added some Halls to get the order over $35, and free shipping. You guessed it - they ended up shipping the Halls separately - in the end that cost them more. I only ordered it to get the free shipping.
Silly


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Retired Peasant said:


> I'm not a member of Prime, and often I'll order something that totals just under the free shipping available with an order > $35. The last time, I added some Halls to get the order over $35, and free shipping. You guessed it - they ended up shipping the Halls separately - in the end that cost them more. I only ordered it to get the free shipping.
> Silly


Maybe they thought it was a medical emergency.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Well, to finish the story, the printer arrived today, as the order said when it would, just not where it said it would! :05.18-flustered:

I checked the tracking status early this morning and it said "out for delivery". Just before noon, it said "delivered". I looked out the front door, no printer. We have a [Signature Not Required] sticker for Purolator, so I expected it to just be left there. Hmmmmm, I thought, could it maybe have been sent by Canada Post, and there's a card in my community mail box to go pick it up at the post office? I figured, I'd go check after lunch.

I'm having my lunch, and the phone rings. It's the neighbour with a house number that's 10 different than ours. "We have your printer. We just got home, and it was sitting in our driveway". Luckily, they're really nice people, and didn't demand a ransom, or just pretend that it never happened. I drove over and picked it up.

In rural Ottawa, where I live, we have standardized municipal house numbers on posts at the end of every driveway; there's no excuse for not finding the right house. With all the stories about delivered packages being stolen from in front of people's homes, you think they would be a bit more diligent than to just drop-n-run if there's no [SNR] sticker.


BTW, the printer was in the manufacturer's original box; there would be nowhere to have put the ink cartridges without opening it or taping them to the outside. That explains the double shipment - even though it looked silly, it made sense.


fini.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ At least your delivery had a happy ending ...

And re


> With all the stories about delivered packages being stolen from in front of people's homes, you think they would be a bit more diligent than to just drop-n-run if there's no [SNR] sticker.


 ... no, it has become the "norm with drop-n-run without SNR" deliveries now. 

Amazon is making so much $$$ that what's a few missing (aka stolen) deliveries amongst the thousands/millions? Besides they think most homes would have some CCTV security/monitoring activities of their front door.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Amazon is making so much $$$ that what's a few missing (aka stolen) deliveries amongst the thousands/millions?


a) shipping is probably FAR cheaper than maintaining and staffing local b&m

b) I'm not sure this costs amazon or the delivery service in the end (canada post in my experience)

c) in 20 years of shopping online I've never had an issue. don't be so skeptical of change

d) amazon is installing electronic lockers, offering to deliver items into houses and cars in the usa already and people are getting parcel lockers etc so it's all moot once canada gets with the times


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^

a) & b) ... Yep and soon, they don't even need humans handling the packages with the machines rising to the task. And much bonus-stuffings will go to the brain-child who came up with this scheme.

c) Not being skeptical of "change" (and besides, nothing can stop changes) but difficult to believe this if you're a complete (100%) online-shopper. It's like saying you hit a home run with each delivery. I'm not a dedicated online shopper but have a friend who is (home-bound) and there were several occasions where his delivery went missing, taken right from his front door. That's because the delivery guy didn't even bother to ring the door-bell. And of course with the SNR in effect, it so much more easier for thieves looking out for these "freebies". And it was not considered a "convenience" for him to have to make a claim afterwards for the missing parcel from Amazon.

d) Electronic/parcel lockers are hardly useful for those who're home-bound. Rather defeats the purpose of using online shops that offers to ship-direct to your door for home-bound customers.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

My problem is not how or when the package was delivered, it's where the package was delivered. Since retiring, I can usually, but not always, plan around being at home when I'm expecting something to be delivered If I'm told when that will be. If buying something that needs to be delivered from a b&m store, I have always been told when to expect the delivery; then typically get a phone call the day before, and sometimes again on the delivery date. With stuff ordered on-line, I have found the tracking information to be hit-and-miss. I have seen tracking status like "shipping label generated" for days, then unexpectedly the package arrives. So, change is good, but not if service is sacrificed.

Our neighbourhood has become an extension of the post office. I can't count how many times I've opened our mailbox and found mail for someone at an address that only partially resembles mine. If it's for a neighbour that I know, I'll go drop it off at their house; I've had neighbours do the same for me. If it's for an address several blocks away, I drop it back in the outbound mail slot. I wonder if everyone bothers to look at their mail before leaving the mailbox, or if things addressed to me wind up in someones wastebin. I have all my bills sent on-line now, but some important things are still mailed. The ability to get bills on-line is a change that I welcome wholeheartedly.

My expectation was that a for-profit courier service would be more careful - especially with a box that was clearly identified as containing something of value - than to leave it on the wrong driveway. If I have a selection of courier in any future purchases, I'll now be biased against Purolator and only use them if there's no other choice, same as I feel about Canada Post. Maybe the future is autonomous drone delivery; let's see if that works out, what could possibly go wrong with that?

BTW... 



m3s said:


> c) in 20 years of shopping online I've never had an issue. don't be so skeptical of change


To say that because something has not happened, regardless of for how long, is not a proof that it could never happen. Faulty logic.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Userkare said:


> Our neighbourhood has become an extension of the post office. I can't count how many times I've opened our mailbox and found mail for someone at an address that only partially resembles mine. If it's for a neighbour that I know, I'll go drop it off at their house; I've had neighbours do the same for me. If it's for an address several blocks away, I drop it back in the outbound mail slot. I wonder if everyone bothers to look at their mail before leaving the mailbox, or if things addressed to me wind up in someones wastebin. I have all my bills sent on-line now, but some important things are still mailed. The ability to get bills on-line is a change that I welcome wholeheartedly.
> 
> My expectation was that a for-profit courier service would be more careful - especially with a box that was clearly identified as containing something of value - than to leave it on the wrong driveway. If I have a selection of courier in any future purchases, I'll now be biased against Purolator and only use them if there's no other choice, same as I feel about Canada Post. Maybe the future is autonomous drone delivery; let's see if that works out, what could possibly go wrong with that?


There's a house two streets over with the same address as ours. The street name also begins with the same letter. I'm positive that our packages have been delivered there more than once. Did they ever bring them to us -- of course not! They probably opened them and kept the contents or threw them away. UPS claimed they were "delivered", there's nothing they can do... blah, blah, blah.

I've had problems with UPS in the past (such as arbitrarily changing the value on a customs invoice so they could charge more fees). Never had a problem with Canada Post. It always seems to be the courier companies that mess things up. I refuse to even deal with a courier if there's any way to avoid it.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> have a friend who is (home-bound) and there were several occasions where his delivery went missing, taken right from his front door. That's because the delivery guy didn't even bother to ring the door-bell. And of course with the SNR in effect, it so much more easier for thieves looking out for these "freebies". And it was not considered a "convenience" for him to have to make a claim afterwards for the missing parcel from Amazon.
> 
> Electronic/parcel lockers are hardly useful for those who're home-bound. Rather defeats the purpose of using online shops that offers to ship-direct to your door for home-bound customers.


Electronic lockers are optional. They are usually placed where people commonly go like right beside the grocery cashiers. Does this person buy food? Whoever gets their food order could probably get their parcel from the locker as well

This home bound person should call or maybe even speak to their deliver service. In my experience they are very friendly and open to delivering parcels how you prefer. They would probably place them inside if they asked. Or they should buy a parcel box that locks for their house.

People who just complain something doesn't work baffle me. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. There are probably hundreds of solutions and they're all superior to the past



Userkare said:


> To say that because something has not happened, regardless of for how long, is not a proof that it could never happen. Faulty logic.


I'm open to the realm of possibilities in this world.. and I'm concerned about far bigger risks than purolator deliveries.

When I was in Canada I knew my purolator drivers by name and they were all great. One time I ordered a large expensive item and it shipped in its OEM box so anyone could see it was valuable. They cleverly hid it behind my garbage bins. They often placed things on my back deck in the summer so I would see it through the patios doors. I would have given them my garage code but I don't even lock my doors (as do most Canadians in any small towns I've lived in) If I remember they sometimes did place things inside the house or garage while I was gone, but usually just on the front steps as theft was next to zero in this neighbourhood and we aren't paranoid city slickers.

And what's the worst that can happen? I have to make a few clicks on amazon and they'll send another and I imagine purolator will investigate/track the offensive personnel to prevent this becoming common.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

nathan79 said:


> I've had problems with UPS in the past (such as arbitrarily changing the value on a customs invoice so they could charge more fees). Never had a problem with Canada Post. It always seems to be the courier companies that mess things up. I refuse to even deal with a courier if there's any way to avoid it.


UPS has always been the worst in my experience. I will refuse to order from someone if they refuse to use a different courier. FedEx has also been a hassle in my experience if the closest FedEx office is far away, sometimes they were kind enough to call and deliver to my work instead. Canada Post is the best because if they require a signature they will just leave it at the corner store.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

m3s said:


> And what's the worst that can happen? I have to make a few clicks on amazon and they'll send another and I imagine purolator will investigate/track the offensive personnel to prevent this becoming common.


Yeah, annoying, but not the end of the world. M3S, the fact that you ship enough to know the names of the delivery people is crazy, so I'm certainly not in that league, but I do order quite a bit online, and it increases as time goes by. I have also never had a problem - the system just works. I usually check the tracking and see when it's out for delivery and assume it will arrive that day. All the delivery companies seem to ring the bell and walk away. They take a picture of my front door and the address number with the package to prove they were there... kinda creepy, but that's the way it is. 

Anecdotally, I've never had anything taken, but maybe that's just dumb luck. The system seems to work OK for me, but I live in a pretty nice neighborhood. I continually add more and more stuff to my list of things I buy online that I use to go to the store for.

The weirdest thing lately has been with Amazon using these UBER type delivery companies that work on weekends. I have noticed that if I order something on a Friday, it will arrive just as fast as it would through the week by Amazons use of third party UBER type delivery services. I recently experienced this when I ordered something on a Friday and the tracking said it was out for delivery on a Sunday. I heard my front door bell ring and I looked out and saw this guy without a uniform get into his crappy looking KIA and drive away. I opened the door and found my package. huh! Previously, the weekend was a loss of time and I would have waited for a weekday to get delivery, but I guess that's changed.

ltr


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

I would normally agree that for packages, Canada Post is the best option. There's no surprise brokerage fees, and if it requires a signature they may either come to the door, or leave a card in the mailbox telling you to go to the post office. Only problem is with some parcels that do not require signature, and fit in one of the community mailbox shared large bins. They leave a key in your box, you open the large bin, take your parcel, and drop the key in the outbound mail slot. Easy-peasy.... but that assumes they put the key in the right box! If I frequently get other peoples mail, and they get mine, what's the possibility that key goes in the wrong box? In that case, unlike Purolator delivering to the wrong house, there's no traceability at all. Getting the key in your box with a package addressed to someone else would seem a free gift to many people. Personally, I would try to make it right; return the box to the post office; it's just a few Km away.

No, the world won't end because of this; maybe someone just has to wait for their wedding/birthday/Christmas gift. You might get resolution from the supplier or shipper, or just accept that you've been the victim of theft caused by someone else's incompetence. Amazon might be large enough to write off lost parcels without much effort for the customer, but I'll bet you'd have a hard time convincing a smaller vendor to ship you a replacement item for free if you can't actually prove that you didn't receive it.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Userkare said:


> There's no surprise brokerage fees, and if it requires a signature they may either come to the door, or leave a card in the mailbox telling you to go to the post office. Only problem is with some parcels that do not require signature, and fit in one of the community mailbox shared large bins. They leave a key in your box, you open the large bin, take your parcel, and drop the key in the outbound mail slot. Easy-peasy..


For me, I always hated the signature requirement. I'm so glad it seems to be dying a slow death. They've obviously listened to the majority.

I don't really want to tie my day down to receiving a paper towel order that requires a signature. Myself, and many others, are using online ordering to get everyday items in lieu of traveling to a parking lot and going inside the B&M store and standing in line at the cash and then coming home. Screw that, I want to click and have it arrive at my door. 

I also don't really want to monitor that order as to its arrival. I have come home numerous times now and find my paper towel and toilet paper order sitting on my doorstep. Do I want instead to find a piece of paper telling me to go to some facility to pick up my order? NO, that's not easy-peasy. It's annoying. I want all my orders to be dropped off on my doorstep and I ain't the only one who feels this way.

ltr


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

like_to_retire said:


> I have come home numerous times now and find my paper towel and toilet paper order sitting on my doorstep. Do I want instead to find a piece of paper telling me to go to some facility to pick up my order? NO, that's not easy-peasy. It's annoying. I want all my orders to be dropped off on my doorstep and I ain't the only one who feels this way.
> 
> ltr


With a screen name of "like_to_retire", can I assume you're not yet retired and are eagerly looking forward to it? 

After 4 years retirement, let me tell you, I look forward to any excuse to get out of the house. I'll go shopping alone for something related to home maintenance, or with the wife for furniture and such. I even go to Costco with her, and I absolutely hate being inside that place. She needs help with the heavy lifting, so I wait in the car reading a book and watch the circus of insanity that goes on in the parking lot. Given that we're there anyway, buying paper snotrags and asswipe is no problem; we can get enough to last months in one single trip. The things I have delivered are either too large to be carried, not available locally, or so much cheaper that it's hard to pass up.

A lot of people hate the community mailboxes. It was an election promise in the last fed election to discontinue them - but not for those that are there already. Since I'm in a rural area, I prefer to have my mail in a locked box rather than a tin can at the end of my drive; a mail-slot in the door has never been an option. I actually don't mind walking to the mailbox, then continue around the whole block. I might also swing by the mailbox on my bike while on a longer ride. 

There's lots to do at home, and I can keep busy, but if I don't get out, I'll end up looking like Howard Hughes in his end days - but without all the money. 

But... Since everyone is different, maybe you'll not feel the same way.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yes I order as many everyday items on amazon subscribe & save as I can. I compare the prices once and now I don't have to waste time deciding on a product again, I now skip all the aisles in the grocery store (apparently this is called perimeter shopping) which saves time shopping and means less junk to load on the cashier and less crap to load back into cart and then less bags to load into trunk etc etc.

I recently got stuck behind a women who must be one of those extreme couponers, and a trainee cashier who couldn't handle the coupons so the manager came and then her card got declined. It must have wasted 30 mins. The sooner amazon cashierless stores expand the better. And can we kill off paper coupons and paper cheques please! Or at least make a anti-express-lane for these people


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Userkare said:


> With a screen name of "like_to_retire", can I assume you're not yet retired and are eagerly looking forward to it?
> 
> But... Since everyone is different, maybe you'll not feel the same way.


hehe, I picked that handle many years ago and have held onto it. 

I am happily and completely retired now for 12.5 years. 

The last place I want to go is Costco or Walmart. That's why I like online shopping so much. It allows me time to do more biking than shopping.

ltr


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Electronic lockers are optional. They are usually placed where people commonly go like right beside the grocery cashiers. Does this person buy food? Whoever gets their food order could probably get their parcel from the locker as well
> 
> This home bound person should call or maybe even speak to their deliver service. In my experience they are very friendly and open to delivering parcels how you prefer. They would probably place them inside if they asked. Or they should buy a parcel box that locks for their house.
> 
> ...


Have you heard of Amazon Flex? They moved their "if you have a pulse and can pass a drug test, you have a job" model to deliveries. I have had things delivered from Amazon by contractors in white vans that were obviously not pros (I had to carry a box for large/oversized item that the guy couldn't handle).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Yes I order as many everyday items on amazon subscribe & save as I can. I compare the prices once and now I don't have to waste time deciding on a product again, I now skip all the aisles in the grocery store (apparently this is called perimeter shopping) which saves time shopping and means less junk to load on the cashier and less crap to load back into cart and then less bags to load into trunk etc etc.
> 
> I recently got stuck behind a women who must be one of those extreme couponers, and a trainee cashier who couldn't handle the coupons so the manager came and then her card got declined. It must have wasted 30 mins. The sooner amazon cashierless stores expand the better. And can we kill off paper coupons and paper cheques please! Or at least make a anti-express-lane for these people


Most stores have self-scan check outs. I almost exclusively use these as they don't have lines and I often prefer not having to deal with the cashier.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yea I've used those when travelling and like them. They've never existed where I lived yet


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Have you lived in Canada lately? They are getting to be pretty ubiquitous in grocery stores and now in drug stores.


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