# Trading direxion 3x leveraged ETFs



## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

does anyone here trade direxion etfs 3x leveraged?
ery/ faz /fas/erx and so on.
just curious if anyone here daytrades or swingtrades those?


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

newbie said:


> does anyone here trade direxion etfs 3x leveraged?
> ery/ faz /fas/erx and so on.
> just curious if anyone here daytrades or swingtrades those?


i guess nobody here trades those?


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

They petrify me. What kind of indicators do you look for when banking on one day swings?

In school we had a mock portfolio and we were doing horrible so we decided to try and recover with 3x ETFs going into the weekend. I think the world declared war on Libya and the Japanese nuclear crisis escalated at the same time and we got destroyed.

Never recommend it with real money.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

Dmoney said:


> They petrify me. What kind of indicators do you look for when banking on one day swings?
> 
> In school we had a mock portfolio and we were doing horrible so we decided to try and recover with 3x ETFs going into the weekend. I think the world declared war on Libya and the Japanese nuclear crisis escalated at the same time and we got destroyed.
> 
> Never recommend it with real money.


chart overbought /oversold indicators.
ery/erx 
fas/faz
i trade those and they have their own bottoms and tops.
right now the russel energy index and financial index are climbing.
i use 3 keltner channels and stockRSI
exp moving average
slow stockastics
works like a charm in this volatile mkt.
i am waiting to buy faz at about 36 bux and ery at 11 bux level.
i do it with real money, and i mean real money not canadian tire money.
i am looking for someone here that also does it so we can have a discussion as to what i am seeing in this BS market.
i want to discuss my actual chart analysis, but with someone interested in the trade.
that is how i do it.
very dangerous etfs and not for the faint of heart
never buy high volumes and always average down if needed ONLY IF U REALLY SEE A BOTTOM NEAR
stop loss at 5%

p.s not for daytrading imo unless u try and scalp them , very difficult and can go badly against u also imo

also started trading HVU.
wildcat this one and at loss atm by 12% in one day
next year vix options were trading above 30 , before todays BS rally obviously
this one is very very hard IMO


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

newb we are def not up to you & your stock *** ticks, had U thought of possibly moving on ...


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> newb we are def not up to you & your stock *** ticks, had U thought of possibly moving on ...


and why is that?
ur the only one here?
whats with the moving on paraphrasing.
if not interested dont read

how bout the following , put me on ignore


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

seem like we have another young market genius here !

do you also have the ability to predict the future by drawing imaginary line onto stock chart ?

its a funny coincidence because my grandfather could predict weather by licking his thumb and raising it in the air !


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I trade TZA/TNA.

Very rarely TNA.

I mostly use TZA to hedge in situations where I am petrified.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I trade TZA/TNA.
> 
> Very rarely TNA.
> 
> I mostly use TZA to hedge in situations where I am petrified.


never traded those but since u mentioned i will take a look.
i am mostly with energy stocks and futures.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I mostly pay attention to sentiment, trendlines and patterns but everyone has their own style... Sentiment was very low but could have gotten worse, yesterday bac broke $5 and that's all everyone could talk about. On ES hourly I see yesterday was testing the floor of a multi-week symm triangle (October-January) around 1193, with the cieling for this week around 1260. The downtrend from December 7th broke yesterday during a.m., so ES should attempt backtesting the cieling at 1260. A good phrase to remember is - tops are processes (its hard to convince people to sell), bottoms are events (everyone tries chasing). With so many gone for the holidays I expect dramatic moves in either direction. Above ES 1260 (cash price 1270) there is a significant amount of air, I may consider that the start of a multi-year bull market, in which case something has gone very well and we would all know exactlty what at most a few months later.

I use tna/tza/tvix irl occasionally but not recently as I decided to take a break and am just heavy on cash for now, particularly USD since the dxy was 75. Oue loonie is holding up because of the incredible strength in oil, which I think is overpriced and patterns forming suggest it could move dramatically within the next 3-6 months.

Welcome back to the forum.. Cmf is very welcoming and friendly most of the time but realize most people have their life savings on the table and dislike hearing different strategies because their own routine has worked so well and dislike negative viewpoints what-so-ever despite what they admit publicly. You won't change their opinion so its best not to bother. Like kaejs said somewhere this is what makes the market... There is never a singular outcome to anything so don't get your panties in a twist over your own biases either. Try to warm up your personality a little, nice+nice=nice


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

newbie said:


> never traded those but since u mentioned i will take a look.
> i am mostly with energy stocks and futures.


average trading volume on TZA/TNA is huge... about 30M....
Those trades are the most popular topic at stockstobuy.org/forum - check it out


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

ddkay said:


> I mostly pay attention to sentiment, trendlines and patterns but everyone has their own style... Sentiment was very low but could have gotten worse, yesterday bac broke $5 and that's all everyone could talk about. On ES hourly I see yesterday was testing the floor of a multi-week symm triangle (October-January) around 1193, with the cieling for this week around 1260. The downtrend from December 7th broke yesterday during a.m., so ES should attempt backtesting the cieling at 1260. A good phrase to remember is - tops are processes (its hard to convince people to sell), bottoms are events (everyone tries chasing). With so many gone for the holidays I expect dramatic moves in either direction. Above ES 1260 (cash price 1270) there is a significant amount of air, I may consider that the start of a multi-year bull market, in which case something has gone very well and we would all know exactlty what at most a few months later.
> 
> I use tna/tza/tvix irl occasionally but not recently as I decided to take a break and am just heavy on cash for now, particularly USD since the dxy was 75. Oue loonie is holding up because of the incredible strength in oil, which I think is overpriced and patterns forming suggest it could move dramatically within the next 3-6 months.
> 
> Welcome back to the forum.. Cmf is very welcoming and friendly most of the time but realize most people have their life savings on the table and dislike hearing different strategies because their own routine has worked so well and dislike negative viewpoints what-so-ever despite what they admit publicly. You won't change their opinion so its best not to bother. Like kaejs said somewhere this is what makes the market... There is never a singular outcome to anything so don't get your panties in a twist over your own biases either. Try to warm up your personality a little, nice+nice=nice


thks for the post and the nice welcome back.
sentiment first.still very low.
i see the 200 dma to be retested on light volume in the next few days since liquidity is limited and price can move up with good news from europe and u.s.
interesting today that good news was housing starts climbed, spanish bonds german confidence and whatever else.
nobody is paying attention if they actually can sell those new homes since americans are renting at an all time high .
on spx 500 to be exact i see 1259.97 , so 1260 , and if sustained which i think is very unlikely 1275 at best.
tomorrow we will see the run for ecb loans and imo that is bearish.
and if santa shows up in europe and Draghi shuts his mouth 1350 max, but not this year end.
u dont get out of debt with more debt.
but the financing will provide more liquidity.kick the can further down the road.
this is the european QE .if not what can we call it?
but lets say we hit 1275 and find resistance there. i will buy my first positions around there.
on russell index values are different , i can post if u want to discuss it further.
since i mostly trade 3x leveraged etfs i mentioned , i follow the russel1000 energy and financial index.
i am starting to track the tsx 60 index.
this one my daily chart sees a lot of upside potential .
why did i say todays rally was short covering?
the news that triggered it .
take a look at the initial inflection point on the tsx 60 slow stockastics(daily), i like it but i want a little more confirmation.
for that i will trade hxu/hxd.
we r trading on news not fundamentals.
what is ur thought?
dont worry wont clash with "the smart money" on the board.
good talking and sharing ideas.

p.s
oil aint overepriced imo
it is trading out of fundamentals due to iran tensions. it has decoupled from fundamentals.it is a geopolitical instrument of speculation.
actually oil levels globally are at precrecession state atm.
premium will remain, unless the mkt crashes .

by the way great post and wording man.
i am not very good with the most technical jargon....yet


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

gibor said:


> average trading volume on TZA/TNA is huge... about 30M....
> Those trades are the most popular topic at stockstobuy.org/forum - check it out


thks for the link.
same with the ones i mentioned.
volume can be good but since they track the indexes , i find it hard to track it on intraday moves 
i rather trade on bottoms and tops, even though i may enter a trade with 61.8% retracement on fibo , either way, up or down.
u can sure scalp sometimes even a dollar on faz.
never traded tza or tna but i assume the same is feasible.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

newbie, just wondering ...do you trade XIV, TVIX and similar..?


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

gibor said:


> newbie, just wondering ...do you trade XIV, TVIX and similar..?


no i do not yet
just the above


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I was reading somewhere (can't remember) there is a poster here that bought the Horizon 3X leverage TSX Bull, at the bottom of the 08. After I learned this, I understood how he got a 7 figure stock portfolio.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Jungle said:


> I was reading somewhere (can't remember) there is a poster here that bought the Horizon 3X leverage TSX Bull, at the bottom of the 08. After I learned this, I understood how he got a 7 figure stock portfolio.


I don't understand.  Horizons doesn't have 3X bull, only 2x bull - HXU and if you compare returns of HXU vs TSX starting from lowest point of 2008 -> returns are exactly the same, even TSX has better returns as they pay dividends.

and BTW exactly the same return for 3X leverage Russells TNA


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Futures are naturally leveraged, for example CME's E-mini S&P500 contracts have a contract size of $50 x the index. That's 50:1, so at today's closing price 1 contract of ES at 1237 would control $61,850 of the S&P500. The "big" S&P500 futures contract is leveraged 250:1, so one contract at today's closing price would control $309,250 of the S&P500. The mini Russell 2000 (TF) is 100:1. All these fancy ETFs make it easier for retail investors with crappy brokers to access the futures market, with the extreme disadvantage of having access limited to cash market floor trading hours (9:30-4:00pm). That could kill you in a volatile market like this, any stops set are mostly useless if the market opens with a gap up or down of 40 points.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

gibor said:


> I don't understand.  Horizons doesn't have 3X bull, only 2x bull - HXU and if you compare returns of HXU vs TSX starting from lowest point of 2008 -> returns are exactly the same, even TSX has better returns as they pay dividends.
> 
> and BTW exactly the same return for 3X leverage Russells TNA


Oh HXU is actually 2X bull. Thank you!

But when I look at the bottom of 08 and compare with XIC, HXU has almost twice the return:

http://www.google.ca/finance?chdnp=...lBasedLine&cmpto=TSE:XIC&cmptdms=0&q=TSE:HXU&


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

After doing some reading, these funds are not good to hold long term. They are reset every day. Volatility will lower returns as the compounding amount changes.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Jungle said:


> After doing some reading, these funds are not good to hold long term. They are reset every day. Volatility will lower returns as the compounding amount changes.


This is 100% correct.

Which is why they should be traded within the same day, if possible.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Jungle said:


> Oh HXU is actually 2X bull. Thank you!
> 
> But when I look at the bottom of 08 and compare with XIC, HXU has almost twice the return:
> 
> http://www.google.ca/finance?chdnp=...lBasedLine&cmpto=TSE:XIC&cmptdms=0&q=TSE:HXU&


Not really, if you add XIC dividends (it's about 11% for this period), you will see that XIC outperformed


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

IMO if you want Corzine style leverage to start a long term position on an index, and you can meet the margin requirement, it's safer to hold cash settled equity futures contracts outright, these daily reset ETFs are not the best investment vehicle for that strategy Jungle you are correct. In my experience the leveraged ETFs are best used for intraday trading and small size (never more than a couple thousand $ per trade).

In a volatile market, you want to be able to adjust your position as events unfold. By using futures you get an additional ~17 hours a weekday of market access, you are on a level playing field with the pros and manually entered stops will actually trigger in time to prevent a loss.

Since MF Global collapsed there is pretty much only one respectable futures broker left in Canada on the retail front, and that would be Interactive Brokers. I would ask why none of our big bank brokers have futures access but I'll probably hear a reason like they are using a Hitachi system from 1995 that only supports one type of exchange traded derivatives and it's too expensive to upgrade because not enough Canadians could meet the margin requirements therefore we shouldn't bother. Maybe 10 years from now, and that's if you're lucky. Personally, I can't wait until thinkorswim comes to Canada...


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

ddkay said:


> Futures are naturally leveraged, for example CME's E-mini S&P500 contracts have a contract size of $50 x the index. That's 50:1, so at today's closing price 1 contract of ES at 1237 would control $61,850 of the S&P500. The "big" S&P500 futures contract is leveraged 250:1, so one contract at today's closing price would control $309,250 of the S&P500. The mini Russell 2000 (TF) is 100:1. All these fancy ETFs make it easier for retail investors with crappy brokers to access the futures market, with the extreme disadvantage of having access limited to cash market floor trading hours (9:30-4:00pm). That could kill you in a volatile market like this, any stops set are mostly useless if the market opens with a gap up or down of 40 points.


ur absolutely right nad that is why i trade when i see certain signals in my charts.
i cant trade futures due to margin requirements.
i dont daytrade it either.
like i said this aint for the faint of heart
unless someone in the board thinks we will have a breakout on the indexes .
i do not .
the indexes will be range bound imo.

i mentioned 1250/ 1275 before years end
the move is technical not because the world became a better place.
on the contrary , the run for the ECB loans yesterday shows hoe fragile europes banking system is.
that is their first QE

one more thing dekay
for myself to believe we will enter a bull fase in the mkts we have to break solidly above the 200 dma and here is my question to you.
what makes u think that can happen?
just asking your opinion


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> This is 100% correct.
> 
> Which is why they should be traded within the same day, if possible.


i also agree K.
but daytrading those can be really difficult imo.
i said originally .
range bound market .
this next few days are horrible to trade imo.
large trading desks are gone till next year.
u have algos doing most of the work.
anyway , glad the thread opened some discussion.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

Jungle said:


> After doing some reading, these funds are not good to hold long term. They are reset every day. Volatility will lower returns as the compounding amount changes.


absolutely.
i learned and i trade them.
i bought at 10.8 ery and sold 13.9 .
now that is 3.1 dollars in profit.
not too shaby.
but like isaid because i believe this mkt is range bound.
i trade mostly the bearish etfs, after all there is not much bulish news out there.
they make the mkts rally on house permits increase but cant sell older homes.
what a joke


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## Mockingbird (Apr 29, 2009)

Nowadays, the margin requirements are pretty low for many futures products, especially for day trading. They are traded just like any other instruments. Nothing fancy. Trading futures doesn't mean you are on a level playing field with pros. It just magnifies any lack of understanding he/she has on the market or the trading itself.

Thus, the spectacular blowouts are much more common in futures trading. 

My2c..
MB


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Sounds more like speculating than investing... Investing to me means evaluating an equity on its fundamentals and buying it if it's a good value and has a reasonable expectation of appreciating.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

Sherlock said:


> Sounds more like speculating than investing... Investing to me means evaluating an equity on its fundamentals and buying it if it's a good value and has a reasonable expectation of appreciating.


sherlock 
last i checked the stock market is based on speculation.
FCX produces copper at the lowest price on earth last i checked and yet i saw this stock trade within a 10 dollar range lately.
same with pcx , about 4 dollars range.
all stocks are on a seesaw except consumer staples.
i speculate with etfs , just a different vehicle


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

gibor said:


> average trading volume on TZA/TNA is huge... about 30M....
> Those trades are the most popular topic at stockstobuy.org/forum - check it out


tza starting to look atractive
resistance on russel 2000 index at 763 and that is the 200dma.
very critical number.
my 2nd keltner level
third level if broken which i doubt will lead to breakout , meaning santa is real


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

newbie said:


> tza starting to look atractive


Definitely is.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

*Newbie:* considering what you're trading, I think you need to update your username. 

Have never traded these beauties.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> *Newbie:* considering what you're trading, I think you need to update your username.
> 
> Have never traded these beauties.


its all godd tgal
name is fine i am still a newbie
if u ever trade them go really small maybe 100 shares at a time if u have the funds .
never ever enter the trade without full chart signal complete.
happy holydays.
after santa rally and completed chart move i am in .
chart moves are not finished but getting there including tse 60
spx hit my target today at 1262 so far but it may hit second keltner channel at 1275 and if tough resistance is met i am really in.
vix is bottoming
bought HVU at 16 .5 and there is no contract on vix for next year less than 25 
but i am new to HVU so that is kinda of a gamble
today i had to call them to see how it tracks and we r rolling F/G contracts at aproximately 75%/25% 
the calculation on the site is very unclear to me
just remember follow the trend of the charts(daily charts)
i am not no genius but the writing is on the wall
europe stocks went up today on 1/3 of regular volume

p.s i never ever ever short oil no matter if it tanks , and if it tanks i am always a buyer .
oil has geopolitcal issues imo


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Definitely is.


russel 2000 chart move almost complete.
also may hit or get close to 2nd keltner channel and get overbought.
maybe one position today would justify , but i like to wait for full inflection of stockastics signal.
what signals do u use?
TIA

p.s 200 dma is 763


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Investing is just the establishment's word play to get you to part with your money in a casino in a long con. Let's not delude ourselves that we are not gambling.

Because what follows sex and drug? You got it, gambling. If you don't think the established institution uses sex and drug to close deals, then that's another delusion that I hope you can shatter before venturing into this casino.

Now, trading the direxion x3, what I considers a super short con, is great for pair trades. You don't actually need to use margin for the leverage and it doesn't have the same liquidity and spread problems as options. It is, in short, robot trader's heaven.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Definitely is.


i think that the index is topping .
next few days will be critical and i am backing up the truck before years end 
i am starting to regret that i have not bought my first position before christmas


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

Causalien said:


> Investing is just the establishment's word play to get you to part with your money in a casino in a long con. Let's not delude ourselves that we are not gambling.
> 
> Because what follows sex and drug? You got it, gambling. If you don't think the established institution uses sex and drug to close deals, then that's another delusion that I hope you can shatter before venturing into this casino.
> 
> Now, trading the direxion x3, what I considers a super short con, is great for pair trades. You don't actually need to use margin for the leverage and it doesn't have the same liquidity and spread problems as options. It is, in short, robot trader's heaven.


thats what i really think about the actual markets nowadays.
we really decoupled from old days when 10 million shares traded in a blue chip was an amazing volume and it took floor traders countless hours of paper work after days end.
with HFT , we deffinitely are in casinorama.
the techies are in full play and the news is the main driver.
FCX produces copper at 50 cents and look where the sp is .
just saying


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

newbie said:


> i think that the index is topping .
> next few days will be critical and i am backing up the truck before years end
> i am starting to regret that i have not bought my first position before christmas


Don't regret not buying before Christmas. I agree with you that the market has gotten quite high, but it's still risky to purchase before a holiday weekend. 

I am glad I have waited. I will jump in probably next week when I have a better idea where things are going.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Don't regret not buying before Christmas. I agree with you that the market has gotten quite high, but it's still risky to purchase before a holiday weekend.
> 
> I am glad I have waited. I will jump in probably next week when I have a better idea where things are going.


i know and i think the window dressing will continue till years end 
spx target for year end is 1275 on extremely thin volume.
VIX F/G already climbed a bit last friday and i expect it to climb further
sometimes i get in a little too early


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Don't regret not buying before Christmas. I agree with you that the market has gotten quite high, but it's still risky to purchase before a holiday weekend.
> 
> I am glad I have waited. I will jump in probably next week when I have a better idea where things are going.


K
as u can see sometimes u have to be bold and just go for it.
no harm done though t, there will always be another day to trade right?
here i am sitting and holding both of them probably till next year


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I will jump back in with you. Don't worry. 

Probably not tomorrow, but maybe Monday.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I will jump back in with you. Don't worry.
> 
> Probably not tomorrow, but maybe Monday.


carefull when u jump in , cause i dive in bro
anyway
i guess u think monday prices will be lower then
i am in already.
planning to get out at 42 when it comes, providing we dont go to 35 bux


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

newbie said:


> planning to get out at 42 when it comes, providing we dont go to 35 bux


Are we still talking about TZA?

I don't think TZA is going to hit $42 again.

I would say $34 max.

If I had TZA right now and it hit $30, I would sell it all.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Are we still talking about TZA?
> 
> I don't think TZA is going to hit $42 again.
> 
> ...


no 
i mentioned FAZ .
i also am holding TZA but it went down today


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I need to pay more attention to FAZ.

I've watched it a few times, but I've never traded it.

I usually go to TZA naturally.

Looking at FAZ now..


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I need to pay more attention to FAZ.
> 
> I've watched it a few times, but I've never traded it.
> 
> ...


if u trade faz follow the russell 1000 financial chart.
it tracks that index.
TZA tracks the russell 2000 small cap index.
none of them track the spx.
i talk about spx for reference only.
moves today were pretty much in sync, except RUT.
it formed a very small candle beside a bearish candle.
sometimes they are not.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

The only thing I don't like about FAZ is the price.

TZA is $26, FAZ is $37.

More shares with TZA.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> The only thing I don't like about FAZ is the price.
> 
> TZA is $26, FAZ is $37.
> 
> More shares with TZA.


i know.
and i also know that u dont have a lot of cash.
the moves are also very strong.
if u want to trade it go light and dont try to chase it .
wait for overbought oversold signals on the indexes.
in my case i can average down , since i trade large blocks , 500 shares at a time.
i never ever average up.
u have to adapt to ur financial status if u want to trade it, and as u know they are not for the faint of heart.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah, a big problem for me is my cash reserves. 

It can make trading hard at times when you are strapped for cash. Cash is a trader's best friend.

If I were to trade FAZ, the most I would be able to buy in one shot would be 100 shares. Never more.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Yeah, a big problem for me is my cash reserves.
> 
> It can make trading hard at times when you are strapped for cash. Cash is a trader's best friend.
> 
> If I were to trade FAZ, the most I would be able to buy in one shot would be 100 shares. Never more.


if u were to buy 100 shares only , i find it hard for u to trade it but not impossible.
but u have to be 100 % right.
last year lowest low i think was 35.9 , but the thing decays along the way.
study the charts and prices and u will see what i mean.
u can scalp or daytrade other stocks with lower value with 3700 bux .
i bought PCX at days end and made 500 bux on last hour of trading.
this one is trading at around 8 bux.
i assume u have level 2 quotes?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

It is hard to make a nice buck on 100 shares, but I've been doing it for a while. It's all relative, really.

It's easier to make money with 500 shares, but it can be done with 100.

I do not have access to level 2 quotes, and if I did, I'm not even sure I would use them all that much. I've used them before and I didn't find them to be a game changer.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> It is hard to make a nice buck on 100 shares, but I've been doing it for a while. It's all relative, really.
> 
> It's easier to make money with 500 shares, but it can be done with 100.
> 
> I do not have access to level 2 quotes, and if I did, I'm not even sure I would use them all that much. I've used them before and I didn't find them to be a game changer.


u sure can make money with one hundred shares also, no doubt about it.
if u buy at 37 and sell at 42 u make 500 bux , but that is a big move on the index.
it means that the index had a move close to 5% downwards.
level 2 is very usefull for me since i daytrade and scalp large blocks.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

In a couple more years when I have more capital it will all be easier. 

So you depend/use your Level II a lot then, eh?

Hm. I guess it can be helpful to see who wants to buy what and how many...


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> In a couple more years when I have more capital it will all be easier.
> 
> So you depend/use your Level II a lot then, eh?
> 
> Hm. I guess it can be helpful to see who wants to buy what and how many...


i fully depend on my level 2.
but like anything else it can be deceiving.
not much as to who but market depth.
u already have capital and u r doing real well
i started with 100k.
lost 40k in the beggining 
and then sat back and started learning from my own mistakes and here i am .
but i added 50 k to my 60k and went on from there.
i never ever traded on margin in the beggining, and i rarely do so.
have a great day tomorrow and good night


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