# Wage Gap



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Much debate is now happening on the wage gap between men and women especially since Trudeau was elected. A woman earns 87 cents and a man a dollar for equal work today.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3558578/c...o-can-help-improve-gender-equality-in-canada/

Interesting piece by global above on this issue. Is it really this simple or are there things like absences by woman in the workplace that is causing some of this. Or are woman just not on these jobs as long as men are and that is why the wage gap exists. 

Also further down in the article it shows an example of how a man is looked at compared to a woman on issues. The example says a woman could appear "abrasive" or "bossy" and a man would be seen as "aggressive" instead.


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## Karlhungus (Oct 4, 2013)

Its a myth. It even says in the article women are paid the same for the same level of experience. Ive noticed most of the time these types of articles quote "studies" or "research" that is very inaccurate. They lump all the jobs of men together and compare them to all the average jobs of women. Are you kidding me? How is that at all accurate? One variable among many is that men tend to hold jobs that are more dangerous, which tend to pay more. Or women are far more likely to take maternity leave which therefore decreases their experience compared to men. To lump everything together and come out with an average is so disingenuous. 

Ask yourself, do you know any policeman/woman, teacher, lawyer, construction worker, engineer who, as a man makes more then a woman with the same experience and education? ive never met such a person.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Interesting comment and I was also thinking along these lines. Another take is some professional sports where men are stronger and better and are paid much more by drawing in a lot more money and the customers. So this may not be an attainable goal for Justin if he takes in all the inputs.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

A key factor that I have observed over the years, man or woman - is making sure one's supervisor/boss knows one is periodically checking the market *and* are willing to move on. A lot of women colleagues as well as my sister had completely different wages/raises once they were willing to change jobs, if need be.

Management is there to get the job done so that the company makes money so there is no incentive to pay an employee more if they think the employee won't leave.


Cheers


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I have experienced this earlier in my career. When I was first hired in IT, I made $24K. One year later, my good friend had the exact same job on my recommendation and made $28k. He had no experience and less education than me. It was the supervisor that accidentally informed of this, and acknowledged how unfair it was. However, nothing was done to rectify when I asked for a fair amount. Management said they would try their best. Nothing happened until I put in my resignation. I have actually read how well you negotiate your First jobs will make a large impact on future earnings. I do think women are less likely to negotiated the first job then men. 

I do think there is gender inequality for the pure fact there is just inequality. I have work primarily worked in male dominated occupations or organizations, so have definately seen it. That being said I do think maternity leaves and taking care of child contribute too. I had to personally take a lesser paying role in order to balance the demands of my family. That was my choice. That ending said, I get paid the same amount as those doing my current job so are males. 

I don't know how one differentiates between those who choose lower roles, vs. Those who have been paid less becUse of their gender.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Plugging Along flexibility would also have value in a workplace to compensate for lower pay which women could utilize. In the first part of your comment it does tell how much more seriously a man is taken over a women but I think this has changed a lot since earlier in your career.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

new dog said:


> Plugging Along flexibility would also have value in a workplace to compensate for lower pay which women could utilize. In the first part of your comment it does tell how much more seriously a man is taken over a women but I think this has changed a lot since earlier in your career.


I agree there is a value to flexibility, and that's not what I referring to. More so that you can have a male and female in the EXACT Position in terms of position and role, flexibility, etc, and I have seen men get paid more. Part of it is corporate culture. In my current organization, I think it's actually pretty fair. Everyone is on a pay scale that is clearly communicated, increases and everything is transparent The biggest discrepencies in pay are based on how well one negotiates when they come in to the Organization. That pretty much impacts everything else even new jobs. 

In my old company there was not always the same equity. It was an old boys club, and to break in there was very hard. When I started the top 80, 78 were men. When I left it was closer to 20 out of 70.




Ag Driver said:


> 3% of the aviation industry are female pilots. At my company we far exceed that number. We all are on the same pay scale. On mat/pat leave, you still hold your seniority and you still earn time in for your pay scale. I think that the stats are skewed overall due to the fact that men and women take on different career paths. You can play with stats all you want to form any perceived gap.
> 
> http://globalnews.ca/news/3558520/challenging-the-wage-gap-canadian-women-still-earn-less-than-men/
> 
> Women are more then capable to fill roles just as easy as men. I'm not entirely sold on a wage gap -- but I do recognize career choices and the effects of parenting. These are personal choices IMO.


Where I actually find the gap is that is it much harder for women to move to the higher positions. Quite honest, I have had to work harder and be better than my male counterpoints to get to the same place. I was able to do it earlier on because I could hold my own with the guys. A lot of promotions started on the ball field and the hockey rink. The networking there was invaluable. I had to work really hard to be invited to the after work beers, ball teams, and even helped get women on the hockey tournament (that was crazy). I found out about a lot of opportunities in these informal meet ups, which I are a given to a lot of the 'guys'. That's in additional t me working off my butt to produce more than the males. I can tell you I was not taken seriously at the beginning. I have heard this by many of my female friends in senior positions. 

In my case, I made a conscious decision to slow down out of the career climbing. If some male makes more because of my choice, that's not a big deal, however, I can tell you that there are many opportunities that females do not even hear about just because they are another gender.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If you consider people doing the same job, with the same education and the same experience women make slightly more than men.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

In many companies, women are not taken as seriously as men and thus the opportunities don't necessarily come their way, and thus wages. But my career spanned two large technically oriented organizations and for the most part, there was gender equality in pay for job scope and experience. I worked for a female engineering supervisor at one point, and I also worked with female engineers on my team before I became an executive. It is changing for the better in a lot of cases but has a ways to go in some industries and job types. 

We still see a significant lack of females on Corporate Boards and in the Corporate Office and that is generally a lack of 'opportunity' granted to women for middle management jobs where are a necessary step to becoming 'seen' for the executive ranks.. It is still more about the old boys network than it is about skill and experience.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Plugging along makes very good points about being part of the gang. You can also add golfing to the mix of activities one needs to take part in. However you must also be able to communicate as one of the boys as well and I can see that being a challenge as you also alluded to. However as more woman enter these areas the more they will command their own group and being one of the girls maybe.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I think the pay gap in engineering fields is one of the lowest of all professions. Something like 1% difference in pay. I think architecture is similar.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

nobleea said:


> I think the pay gap in engineering fields is one of the lowest of all professions. Something like 1% difference in pay. I think architecture is similar.


I agree. That was my experience in the engineering profession. In my development projects dept many of our geologists, geophysicists and reservoir engineers were female. And some of our facilities/process engineers too. And I was encouraged going back to my 40th homecoming, tha a very significant minority of engineering students were women too. Progress is being made.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

That wage gap myth has been debunked and torn apart by economists for at least 2 decades now. Radical feminists still use it to justify their existence and unfortunately this propaganda is mainstreamed and considered common knowledge. When Obama and now Trudeau use this myth to justify their policies I'd say things have certainly gone too far.

My industry is hugely dominated by men, and within my company the exact opposite wage gap is true. If your a female and applying for a job you'll be placed ahead of most men regardless of experience, and less likely to get walking papers at lay off time as the company scrambles to not look like it discriminates, even though 95-98% of people choosing to pursue this career are male.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Since women are more highly educated, perhaps they should be earning more than men.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

sags said:


> Since women are more highly educated, perhaps they should be earning more than men.


The tables are indeed turning. Universities graduate more females than males in recent times. But it takes a long time to turn such a big ship around. Still a majority of grey haired white males in senior positions.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

My thinking is that the wage gap today would be in isolated cases. Trudeau sees a stat and thinks it is widespread and everywhere.


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## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

There's a HUGE wage gap in porn. Where's the movement to stop that inequality?


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

It was only a matter of time.

Equal pay is not enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xJI4zYR5o8


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

The big story today was Mark Wahlberg making 1000 times more then Michelle Williams.

My thought is Mark Wahlberg is a huge star that demands big money or he walks. Michelle if she is a big star should demand more or walk as well if she thinks she is as big of a star who deserves more. I believe this issue is more about who knows their worth and will stand up for it and someone who doesn't see it like Michelle.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/10/mak...o-michelle-williams-doesnt-happen-to-you.html


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I would say mark wahlberg makes a lot of people a lot of money, not just himself. From what I've seen, Michelle Williams has never been more than a supporting actor. Not to many people come to see movies because of the supporting actor (unless it was maybe Allan Rickman). If Mark's name can guarantee 100x his paycheque for a movie's first run (not to forget pay per view, DVDs, etc.) I'd think it's pretty obvious why they pay him. I can't see people lining up to see Michelle william's latest, so the ROI on her first headlining movie may not demand such high pay. Besides, her $1000 salary was for an independent movie, not a Hollywood one. 

Tom hanks and Tim Allen only got paid $50k each for their roles in the original toy story and both actors were at the top of the earning scale at the time. They chose to earn less to do the movie, they weren't worth less because they only got paid $50k.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

nobleea said:


> I think the pay gap in engineering fields is one of the lowest of all professions. Something like 1% difference in pay. I think architecture is similar.


I can't speak for other industries, but at least in my line of work -- science/engineering/software -- there is no pay gap. There are women in my office who make substantially more than me, including women who are younger than me.

What I've seen is a difference in pay based on years of experience (especially in continuous periods). For example, if I decide to take 1 or 2 years off work to raise my children and build a family, then when I resume working I won't be making as much as someone who has been working that whole time. The same thing will happen if I decide to take 1 or 2 years off work for any other reason.

In my case, I had to take a couple years off work during my 20s for family reasons. I also took some extra university studies and spent fewer years in the work force vs some of my peers. Very naturally, I was making less than my peers who had continuously worked through this whole time.

Anyway, in science/engineering, I think this "wage gap" thing is a myth. The real question is: does a female with an *identical* resume, work history, position earn less than the male? From everything I've seen in my working career, the answer is no -- women get paid the same as men.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Of the highest paid 100 CEOs in Canada.................2 are women.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lists-and-rankings/richest-people/canada-100-highest-paid-ceos/


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The gender gap has always been known but nothing was done about it because men controlled everything from business to politics. 

Women are better educated than men now, so times will be changing.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Not sure what education has to do with anything. I know highly educated people who are unemployed and male. There is a big difference between education and the ability to execute. 

I remember my sister in law once arguing she deserved a higher wage because she'd spend 7 years in school to become a doctor. When I pointed out that her sister, my wife, also spent 7 years in school and had two degrees, one in environmental sciences, but the pay for environmental sciences was very low compared to other fields so education is basically meaningless in relation to pay.

You could spend 20 years being taught basket weaving, but I doubt people would pay you a ton for your "education". 

I don't think I've seen a pay gap based on sex for a long time. If women were cheaper, you'd think there would be more at the top, not less. It usually goes back to the ability to execute. Michelle can't make as much money in the movies as Mark. No amount of education is going to change that. Just like the top female actresses get paid big bucks because they can make big bucks for others. There are plenty of actresses who make more than the 1.5M that mark walberg makes, but the media ignores that fact.


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

Relevant freakonomics podcast/transcript here http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-true-story-of-the-gender-pay-gap-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

A debate could be made that females pension should be less then a males per a month.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I'd be happy with Oprah's income


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

sags said:


> The gender gap has always been known but nothing was done about it because men controlled everything from business to politics.
> 
> Women are better educated than men now, so times will be changing.


More women than men in universities these days, but they still mainly study the humanities and other fields that don't pay much. History, literature, art, gender studies, etc. Males far outnumber females in programs like engineering, computer science, physics, math, etc. And those are the degrees that lead to the big bucks. When i was in university (during the 2000s) some of my 4th year courses had 0 females.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

When men feel they are underpaid and underappreciated they often quit and start their own businesses. How many high tech startups began this way? How many were started by dynamic, smart, hard working women?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The gender gap has always been known but nothing was done about it because men controlled everything from business to politics.
> 
> Women are better educated than men now, so times will be changing.


BS, we haven't had a gender wage gap for years.
It's been illegal for years.

The reality is simply men and women tend to make different choices.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

There is a wage gap with some pensions as women on average live longer


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