# Financial independence… then what?



## Parkgavsop (Aug 14, 2021)

I have found that there are many cases of people who nail the financial independence goal but struggle with the “what now”.

It seems this happens with traditional retire early folks equally.

As I focus on financial goals, which are easy to focus on as they are so nicely measurable, I worry about not focusing on things that will provide fulfilment.

Any standout side hustles / hobbies / otherwise meaningful ventures?

What are your thoughts / experiences?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Don't you have things to do in life that you wish you had more time for, but can never find the time to do? I have an endless list of these things.

But I've also heard some people say, "if I didn't have a job, I don't know what I would do with my time". Perhaps people who think like that shouldn't retire... they might just sit around doing nothing all day.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

See my thoughts from a separate thread here:









When does one actually 'Get There"?


I really resonate with this thread being in the same position now at 32 and having been frugally plugging for sometime. Our net worth now at 600k with no kids and living quite below our means. It struck me with our income around 200k per year we don't really need to be SO frugal all the time...




www.canadianmoneyforum.com


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

We have FI in hand. Wife Early Retired at 55 2 years ago. I am planning to work until mid next year to slot in one more year of full cpp contributions. 

We have always been involved in things. She is into community theatre, collects Barbies, and makes very nice cakes on commission. I can and preserve fresh food in season, teach photograph in workshops a couple of times a year. We both volunteer as Scout leaders.

Even in covid we get together with a gang of pals online twice a week to join an online trivia context to keep connectiosn going amid lock downs. 

Once retired, you have time to expand these interests or take up new ones.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

The fact is, there is pretty much an infinite number of things you could do to fill up time, it's just a matter of putting in the effort to find what interests you, and then start doing it. In a way, I think opting to keep working just to stay busy is very lazy because you're letting other people tell you what to do instead of making the effort of finding it for yourself.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

We retired about 18 years ago. We were not quite "there" financially, but being only 64, that became my new "job". Dumped the FS brokerage and spent time learning how to handle our investments. That "job" has fortunately worked out quite well. Did a 3 month trip initially that provided a great break from even thinking about working again!

At retirement, we owned an older home on country sized lot, a boat (sail), and several older cars. There was no shortage of things to do! We both play golf and that is now our main activity. In winter we headed to warmer climes where we sailed (on friend's boats in exotic places!) and more recently, until covid, played golf, walked and rode our bikes. Keeping fit enough to do those things in our 80s is the new challenge!

We do know others who have had to try and re-invent themselves at retirement. They didn't develop other interests and pastimes earlier on. It's hard to learn new sports late in life. Some have tried lawn bowling or pickle-ball or have got into cycling groups. Volunteering, gardening and home maintenance are other activities they "enjoy". Some have developed their dormant artistic skills. Painting, pottery, wood carving, carpentry etc.

Make an inventory of your skills and interests, even if dormant. Then figure out how to spend your money on those  Try to get involved with groups so as to maintain social contacts.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thal81 said:


> The fact is, there is pretty much an infinite number of things you could do to fill up time, it's just a matter of putting in the effort to find what interests you, and then start doing it. In a way, I think opting to keep working just to stay busy is very lazy because you're letting other people tell you what to do instead of making the effort of finding it for yourself.


Exactly my thoughts.

I think that clinging to work just to stay busy is something that unimaginative or lazy people do. It's like saying: I have nothing better to with my time, so please give me tasks to do.

It's true that humans *do* need 'things to do' to stay busy and alive. But personally I would rather come up _with my own tasks and projects_, which interest me, than have other people dictate my time and task list.

An example I can think of was my best friend's grandmother. Even in her late 70s, she was constantly running around doing things. She loved to socialize so she would throw parties and dinners. She volunteered with different groups in the city. She dabbled in some business efforts. She loved to cook. She was always visiting children and grandchildren.

She had been "retired" for a quarter century, but was constantly pursuing her interests. Never a dull moment. I really admire that.

In my own case, I'm interested in electronics as a hobby (building and experimenting with gadgets) and would also like to learn new languages. I used to play the piano and sing in choirs. That was long ago, before I entered the rat race. I still want to do these things, and hope I can some day.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Parkgavsop said:


> I have found that there are many cases of people who nail the financial independence goal but struggle with the “what now”.


Do you struggle with the "what now" question? In other words, do you have a list of hobbies you'd like to do but time is the only constraint?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Don't you have things to do in life that you wish you had more time for, but can never find the time to do? I have an endless list of these things.
> 
> But I've also heard some people say, "if I didn't have a job, I don't know what I would do with my time". Perhaps people who think like that shouldn't retire... they might just sit around doing nothing all day.


 ... I think "alot (as in plenty)" of folks in the rat-race are with that mindset, including me. 

I really like your idea of "sit around and do nothing all day" when retired. That's like saying "up yours".


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

Thal81 said:


> The fact is, there is pretty much an infinite number of things you could do to fill up time, it's just a matter of putting in the effort to find what interests you, and then start doing it. In a way, I think opting to keep working just to stay busy is very lazy because you're letting other people tell you what to do instead of making the effort of finding it for yourself.


Counter point - Very early in my career (about 3 years in), I was told that I was to be outsourced to a new company. My thoughts at the time were - WTF! How can a company unilaterally change my career and employer? Further, I found out that in the transaction between employers I had no real say on how it was to be played out- it was binary, either go to the new employer or be fired. This fortunate event, trigger me to change my perspective on how I would live life. I made the conscious decision that I would never, ever let anyone tell me what to do. And that I would do work that was the intersection between society needs and what generally interests me. If I came to dislike the work I would immediately change it regardless of the consequences.

The sacrifice that you make when you become an working adult is that you do need to choose something to support yourself and your family. So why not choose what interests you? I could have retired years ago, I choose not to. Further, that non-decision was not because I just wanted to stay busy or I'm lazy. I choose not to because I am interested in the directions I pursue, I have a strong desire to improve at these interests, I take pride in my work and most importantly I do not let anyone tell me what to do.

The great thing about FI is that you now hold the most important card hand. So how are you going to play them, getting on the hedonic treadmill, or continue self actualization?


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Parkgavsop said:


> I have found that there are many cases of people who nail the financial independence goal but struggle with the “what now”.


I must say I have a hard time understanding those people. To me, financial independence means you do whatever you want whenever you want. Time and money is not part of the equation anymore, as opposed to having a job because you need money and it adds a schedule constraint.

I always say "give me 9 lives of total freedom and I'll fill them and I'll still say that I don't have enough time to do everything I want".


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> I must say I have a hard time understanding those people. To me, financial independence means you do whatever you want whenever you want. Time and money is not part of the equation anymore, as opposed to having a job because you need money and it adds a schedule constraint.
> 
> I always say "give me 9 lives of total freedom and I'll fill them and I'll still say that I don't have enough time to do everything I want".


So most things have a schedule constraint, unless they don't . Hot yoga is only at 5-6 Mondays and Weds, travel requires getting flights at the times available, your spouse demanding that the kitchen get redone by saturday.

Having a job does not necessarily need to have a schedule constraint. Some jobs allow you to, make your own day, travel when you want, etc.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> So most things have a schedule constraint, unless they don't .


Yes, but you get to choose those small blocks of time as opposed to 9-5 work which is 1 big block of 8h, 5 times per week. Or even if your work schedule is flexible, it's still 40h a week which goes to a single activity : work.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Pre covid, since retiring we have spent at least four/five months a year travelling. So far six continents. We each still have many places on our respective bucket lists. And places we want to return or include in future travels. In between...a fair amount of planning and reading. 

It is all good.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> Having a job does not necessarily need to have a schedule constraint. Some jobs allow you to, make your own day, travel when you want, etc.


Only way I see having a job and still having freedom (considering that money isn't the constraint), is if I have a job where I'm fully independent and which is pretty passive. For instance, someone who started a blog and now has enough content to get decent income and he publishes new content once in a while, when he's inspired, just to keep the blog fresh. He sure had a very active part when he started and created tons of content, but then he can be passive.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Yes, but you get to choose those small blocks of time as opposed to 9-5 work which is 1 big block of 8h, 5 times per week. Or even if your work schedule is flexible, it's still 40h a week which goes to a single activity : work.


Time to imagine life differently. Don't work 9-5. Make the world pay for your interest. The more interest the merrier ....


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> Time to imagine life differently. Don't work 9-5. Make the world pay for your interest. The more interest the merrier ....


I wish. I've spent over 10 years seeking for a job that I'd be passionate about while having a decent pay and without having to work 60+ hours (balance between interest & money & time). Changed job every 2 years. Haven't found yet.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> I wish. I've spent over 10 years seeking for a job that I'd be passionate about while having a decent pay and without having to work 60+ hours (balance between interest & money & time). Changed job every 2 years. Haven't found yet.


If you can't find, make it. Its up to you.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> If you can't find, make it. Its up to you.


To make it, you still have to find the idea. Self-employed or not, it still has to fit the interest-money-time balance.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> To make it, you still have to find the idea. Self-employed or not, it still has to fit the interest-money-time balance.


Yup. That's the price everyone pays.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

One approach is to do an inventory of your time. You have 16 hours a day for 7 days: 112 hours a week. You work 50 hours if you have your priorities right (or 35 if you work to rule). So assess what you do with the spare 62 (77) hours now.

If you have a list of things to fill that time that you enjoy, you are ready to retire.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

MrBlackhill said:


> To make it, you still have to find the idea. Self-employed or not, it still has to fit the interest-money-time balance.


When you are younger and married with kids etc, you do need a stable income. 9-5 job that pays a fair wage. Just work hard at it. Later, if you are good at what you do, or have a specialty, you could become self employed and consult or do contract work - did that for almost 1/2 my engineering career! No bosses, but sometimes worked a lot more than 8hr days!

Because consulting/contract work may not always provide a steady income, it may be useful to have what I see is now called a side-hustle (new one on me!) Maybe a small home or on-line based business that can grow if you offer something people need. Maybe based on a hobby or something else that interests you. Even a rental property where you may get income and capital gains. Sometimes you can pay your partner a wage to manage the business and perhaps gain some tax deductions that further improve family cash flow.

Otherwise, get a government job with the potential for a good pension! Retire early and enjoy life on us taxpayers  Lot's of friends doing that


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

kcowan said:


> One approach is to do an inventory of your time. You have 16 hours a day for 7 days: 112 hours a week. You work 50 hours if you have your priorities right (or 35 if you work to rule). So assess what you do with the spare 62 (77) hours now.
> 
> If you have a list of things to fill that time that you enjoy, you are ready to retire.


We have a friend that did this. Very enlightening for him. He is/was a super high achiever. If you live in Edmonton, you probably know or have heard of him. Olympian, hollywood movie actor, owns a restaurant downtown, owns and ran a fitness company, two growing boys, very social guy always at get togethers/parties. Most of these at the same time. He did an inventory of his time and found he had like 200+ hours a week of committments and no where near that time available. So he cut back to what was really important to him. Too old for the olympics, no more Hollywood movies, got out of the restaurant, got rid of the fitness company and focuses on his family and social justice things. He's still on tv and gets interviewed all the time. Did a board game on Kickstarter that focuses on his passion.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

kcowan said:


> So assess what you do with the spare 62 (77) hours now.


Yes, let me assess...

21h eating, cooking, washing dishes
4h showering, toilet, brushing teeth
4h chores
2h groceries
7h taking care of the dogs
14h taking care of the kid
7h taking care of the spouse
3h any other time-consuming responsibility that I haven't done yet


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Yes, let me assess...
> 
> 21h eating, cooking, washing dishes


How do you keep slim?


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

agent99 said:


> When you are younger and married with kids etc, you do need a stable income. 9-5 job that pays a fair wage. Just work hard at it. Later, if you are good at what you do, or have a specialty, you could become self employed and consult or do contract work - did that for almost 1/2 my engineering career! No bosses, but sometimes worked a lot more than 8hr days!
> 
> Because consulting/contract work may not always provide a steady income, it may be useful to have what I see is now called a side-hustle (new one on me!) Maybe a small home or on-line based business that can grow if you offer something people need. Maybe based on a hobby or something else that interests you. Even a rental property where you may get income and capital gains. Sometimes you can pay your partner a wage to manage the business and perhaps gain some tax deductions that further improve family cash flow.
> 
> Otherwise, get a government job with the potential for a good pension! Retire early and enjoy life on us taxpayers  Lot's of friends doing that


Yes, this is my most-probable path so far.

At the moment, I'm employed full time but as a consultant, so I take that time to learn from peers, get some paid training and certifications, while getting a stable full time pay. And then maybe 5-10 years from now I'll go as a self-employed consultant.

I would really, really like to have a side hustle, but I haven't found an idea yet. Well, I _may_ have one idea, but with a 6-week newborn it's on pause... And I fear it may be on pause for longer than I think...

I own a duplex with a rental unit, which provides an additional steady income.

My spouse has a government job and I really hope she'll stay there and the get permanent position of her dreams that she is currently working on. At the moment, she's passionate and federal government jobs have lots of perks. And that's why she's currently working almost full-time even though she's on maternity leave. It's kind of a struggle with the newborn though, at least her mom came to help a bit.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> How do you keep slim?


Forgot that I want to get back to working out, but I'm lucky because I tend to lose weight when I don't work out.

21h a week to cook, eat & wash.

There's 30 minutes to eat, 3 times per day, that's already 10.5h a week. Cooking time will take something between 4h if I do batches for the whole week or 1h/day if I don't. Washing the dishes will take another 30 minutes per day, that's rounded to 4h a week. So, yeah, between 19 and 21 hours a week.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Forgot that I want to get back to working out, but I'm lucky because I tend to lose weight when I don't work out.
> 
> 21h a week to cook, eat & wash.
> 
> There's 30 minutes to eat, 3 times per day, that's already 10.5h a week. Cooking time will take something between 4h if I do batches for the whole week or 1h/day if I don't. Washing the dishes will take another 30 minutes per day, that's rounded to 4h a week. So, yeah, between 19 and 21 hours a week.


Too much food. Eat once every other day....that will save some time....


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> Too much food. Eat once every other day....that will save some time....


Intermittent fasting, yes, lol. And I should buy the unhealthy and expensive frozen meals, ha!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I think "alot (as in plenty)" of folks in the rat-race are with that mindset, including me.


Full time work and office work is "habit-forming". You eventually get used to it... kind of inevitable when you live a certain lifestyle for a very long time.


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## MrsPartridge (May 15, 2016)

Many of you say that the ideal lifestyle is to be financially independent and do what you choose to do. However there are many people who are very rich and are working at demanding jobs. When I was working at a brokerage (in IT, not finance), there were many who made close to 100,000 per month. They were very driven while many like me would have worked for a few years then retired. Not these guys though. 

Scott Adams, the creator of the comic strip Dil bert, has a net worth of 70 million. He gets up and goes over many news sources and puts together a podcast and perhaps a Youtube broadcast of 40 minutes daily. Day in, day out no matter what. (I don't agree with many of his opinions, btw). Why is this man doing this, I'd like to know. He sails, plays tennis etc.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

MrsPartridge said:


> When I was working at a brokerage (in IT, not finance), there were many who made close to 100,000 per month. They were very driven while many like me would have worked for a few years then retired. Not these guys though.


Some are driven, and I wish I was driven by some very high-paying job, but some are also driven by money or even debt.

I know rich people who work hard to get the next materialistic thing, the next level rich gadget, the yacht, the supercar, etc., and some buy very luxurious houses, throws big parties and actually can't even kept up with their debts.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Interesting thread for sure...

We hope to shut-down full-time work in another 3-4 years. Been after this saving and investing for early/semi-retirement thing for the last 20 years since my early 20s. 

Some considerations for us:
1. We won't fully retire because we want to keep our bodies and minds active. So, part-time work will occur. 
2. Part-time work will afford us with some transition time to full-on retirement later. Help the change...
3. Part-time work will support / mitigate some negative sequence of returns risk should it occur.
4. Will volunteer more.
5. Will focus more on my health - more time for walking, hiking, biking, golf, and new hobbies. Trying to ramp that up now. 

I don't really worry about not focusing on things that will provide fulfilment - since worse case if I don't like part-time work I'm still young enough to get some full-time work at something.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

My Own Advisor said:


> Some considerations for us:
> 1. We won't fully retire because we want to keep our bodies and minds active. So, part-time work will occur.


I'm curious to know what you do now and what type of part-time work you're considering? I've given this some thought but part time jobs seem limited to retail clerks and flipping burgers. Maybe if you work in trades or are self-employed, you could be part time by taking very few contracts, but I'm not even sure that could work logistically (you'd be a very unreliable employee unless you take random calls on off days).


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## Parkgavsop (Aug 14, 2021)

Yes, great question.

What are the top non burger flipping part time or side gigs? Know some people that work at a golf course or gym for the free membership.

I know someone that started working for Canada Post and another that drives for google maps with the camera on their car.


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## robfordlives (Sep 18, 2014)

My brother and I are two totally different people. He is five years older and constantly working and is compensated very highly and quite frankly is a work-a-holic. Myself I am compensated well but never work beyond 40 hrs a week except for maybe 2-3 times per year. I have some winter and summer hobbies that keep me fit and happy and in good shape. I think for him he doesn't know what else to do besides stacking up more and more $ and physically I think it is starting to catch up with him. For me, I never understood the seeming obsession for work in North America and I would be first out the door at 4:30 (now WFH due to COVID), never seemed to impact my career progression. I do want to retire so I can even more passionately pursue my hobbies, read numerous books I cannot get to (will you ever run out of books in ones lifetime?) and start to volunteer (no time for it now)


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Parkgavsop said:


> What are the top non burger flipping part time or side gigs?


Got any technical skills? A number of programming and/or IT related part-time (or short term contract) work available.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

agent99 said:


> Later, if you are good at what you do, or have a specialty, you could become self employed and consult or do contract work - did that for almost 1/2 my engineering career! No bosses, but sometimes worked a lot more than 8hr days!
> 
> Because consulting/contract work may not always provide a steady income, it may be useful to have what I see is now called a side-hustle (new one on me!) Maybe a small home or on-line based business that can grow if you offer something people need.


I'm an engineer too, and this is the direction I seem to be going. I'm doing consulting and contract work, which is very unstable and unpredictable income.

I use my investment portfolio to provide the "anchor" of steady income, rather than another side hustle. So I do my consulting work and sometimes earn income, sometimes don't. But my investments smooth things over. All I have to do is withdraw (liquidate) investments whenever I want or need the cash, plus of course I use the dividends and interest. The mechanism does not matter at all; the point is that cash can be extracted from investments.

Both my investment income/sell-offs, and my consulting revenue, flows through the same account. This account spits out my monthly *constant* income, to myself.

It's a magical transformation! Extremely volatile self-employment income is transformed into a steady paycheque which pays all my living expenses.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My Own Advisor said:


> Interesting thread for sure...
> 
> We hope to shut-down full-time work in another 3-4 years. Been after this saving and investing for early/semi-retirement thing for the last 20 years since my early 20s.
> 
> ...


MOA, this is my own game plan too, word for word.

Like you, I expect to continue working part time. I have started on many of the things you listed here. Focusing on my health has been great. I've lost a lot of weight and become much healthier, with much more focus on outdoor recreation.

So far I'm about 2 years into this, with part time work, and loving it. One tip I have, as per my above post, is to synthetically create a steady, recurring pay deposit for yourself. Once that infrastructure is in place, it makes no difference whether you work 2 weeks a year or 30 weeks a year. Things always look the same in your chequing account, which I find is very comforting. The cash just keeps rolling in!

I owe a lot of thanks to everyone at CMF for helping me accomplish all of this.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Thal81 said:


> I'm curious to know what you do now and what type of part-time work you're considering? I've given this some thought but part time jobs seem limited to retail clerks and flipping burgers. Maybe if you work in trades or are self-employed, you could be part time by taking very few contracts, but I'm not even sure that could work logistically (you'd be a very unreliable employee unless you take random calls on off days).


I have some professional skills I could put to use/contract work.
I might learn some new skills and become an apprentice, then work part-time.
I have some blogging and freelance skills/have contacts in the personal finance industry, that could be side-income.
I have considering working a golf course in the summer - have some connections there.

And then there's a list that I haven't even considered yet because I haven't had much downtime to reflect...I suspect the list is very long...

It will not be flipping burgers unless it's on my gourmet BBQ.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

james4beach said:


> MOA, this is my own game plan too, word for word.
> 
> Like you, I expect to continue working part time. I have started on many of the things you listed here. Focusing on my health has been great. I've lost a lot of weight and become much healthier, with much more focus on outdoor recreation.
> 
> ...


Great stuff.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Parkgavsop said:


> Thal81 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to know what you do now and what type of part-time work you're considering? I've given this some thought but part time jobs seem limited to retail clerks and flipping burgers. Maybe if you work in trades or are self-employed, you could be part time by taking very few contracts, but I'm not even sure that could work logistically (you'd be a very unreliable employee unless you take random calls on off days).
> ...


I'm curious as to what your neighbours do for full time and part time work that you think it's difficult. Or maybe all your neighbours haven't reached retirement yet?

Mine who are retired wemnt from office manager full time to Canadian Tire/Home Depot part time.
Another went from working for Customs to part time deliveries then to working part time at a golf course.
One when from home care nurse full time to retired buit missed the social interaction so back to part time.
Another went from printer to working with a buddy to build decks, if after checking out the details, the job was what they were willing to do, at a price they liked.

Friends have told me about people in their circle who went from full time architects to two days a week on projects they choose. Others have gone from accountants to part time handy person who picks/chooses from word of mouth recommendations. 

There's also the retired doctor I met who became a minister full time in retirement.


Basically, if one sees a need and fills it well, there doesn't seem to have been the problem


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Eclectic21 said:


> ...
> There's also the retired doctor I met who became a minister full time in retirement.


My cousin did that mid-career. What attracted him was the flexibility of work hours.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My Own Advisor said:


> I have some professional skills I could put to use/contract work.
> I might learn some new skills and become an apprentice, then work part-time.
> I have some blogging and freelance skills/have contacts in the personal finance industry, that could be side-income.
> I have considering working a golf course in the summer - have some connections there.


Several highly promising things here for sure.

I want to try my hand at teaching or giving courses. I thought I could start doing courses in my expertise area, maybe as online courses. Currently I am doing this for free at my old university, and occasionally teaching some courses in exchange for chicken wings and beer. This will continue in the coming months.

I also gave some guest talks at a high school, and was really loving this (it's so cool when teenagers are excited about stuff) but unfortunately COVID put a quick end to that just as it was gaining momentum.



Eclectic21 said:


> Friends have told me about people in their circle who went from full time architects to two days a week on projects they choose. Others have gone from accountants to part time handy person who picks/chooses from word of mouth recommendations.


Yes, absolutely is possible. Architects, engineers, accountants can easily determine their own projects and scale down their hours to a minimal level. I'm an engineer with roughly 20 years experience, and work about 2 days a week. However this might not have been possible back when I had < 10 years experience.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Thal81 said:


> I'm curious to know what you do now and what type of part-time work you're considering? I've given this some thought but part time jobs seem limited to retail clerks and flipping burgers. Maybe if you work in trades or are self-employed, you could be part time by taking very few contracts, but I'm not even sure that could work logistically (you'd be a very unreliable employee unless you take random calls on off days).


I think there tonnes of part 'jobs' one could do when retired. Maybe not as an employee but ways to earn a little money. These are some of the things we have done, currently doing or have seen. 

We have almost always had side hustles. I do part time consulting in addition to working as a consultant full time, I also teach at our local college (both on line and in person), some people are TA's on line. I have also been asked to design content and courses even if I am not delivering them. There is also freelance little jobs. They don't pay very much, but sometimes the can be fun just to see. 

In terms of more entrepreneur things, there are lots of ways to make money if your hobbies involve creating something. If you are good at it, then you can always find someone to buy it. One of my kids loves to knit/crochet and has become so good that people ask her to test patterns in which she is then allowed to use the pattern to make more and then she sells. She also does customs, she's like a 3D machine with yarn. My other child is an artist, not quite gallery yet, but she does custom hand made cards which I am always surprised that people are willing to pay $7 for a card. I like making trendy teachers and xmas gifts for people usually of the food variety. Last years craze was hot chocolate bombs, it was crazy how requests I had. I didn't have time so only made enough to cover my molds and supplies, but there was some teen down the street that made something like $5K over a few months. 

Really, if I wasn't working, I am sure I would find something as a hobby I would become good at and then sell it. This year if they open up the craft markets, my kids and I are planning a table with knit items, paper items, and hot chocolate bombs. We plan for maybe 2 or 3 in the community. 

Other things I have seen are dog walkers, there is an older gentleman in our area, I swear he is 100 lbs wet and 80+. I have seen him with a large bunch of little and mid size dogs (I think counted up to 12). They just walk around the block in a clump. Another lady who likes to do nails, is very artistic and does fake glue on nails in custom designs. She is maybe 20, and does a great job. Because it's the nails that she is providing (you glue them on yourself), there is no need for any special licensing.

I think if one is looking for part time work in retirement, it may be a better strategy to see what they are enjoying to do, see if they can become really good at it, and then see if they can sell it.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Several highly promising things here for sure.
> 
> I want to try my hand at teaching or giving courses. I thought I could start doing courses in my expertise area, maybe as online courses. Currently I am doing this for free at my old university, and occasionally teaching some courses in exchange for chicken wings and beer. This will continue in the coming months.
> 
> ...


If you are interested in teaching part time, even taking some adult learning classes helps. I managed a training team and fell into it, so it made it easier for me to apply at colleges. You can also partner with some companies that delivery training to business, they are always looking for good facilitators, or some get in because they work for them as consultants for other contracts, and then end up doing training. 

If you really like give guest talks, another way is to be come a guest speaking to organizations. Most you don't get paid, but it's really fulfilling. Scouts, Girl Guides, the Boys & Girls clubs, Immigration Societies where they run youth/volunteering programming often are looking for speakers and free activities for their kids. For my units, some of the areas we have had guests have include Cyber security, coding nights, career nights (I have had so many different careers come in), fitness nights, finance nights, project management, artists, interior design, you name it, i have probably done some version of it. It's a little different than just speaking to the kids, I usually ask our speakers to find a way to deliver to the age level (which is hard for some) and to make it interactive. I speak time with the speakers if they aren't used to dealing with kids so it's not boring (you never want a room of bored teenagers with a guest speaker). This is a great way to get out there. We have had many groups where they used to put the session together for us for free, and then it worked so well they started offering to other youth groups for a costs (sad for us when they started charging us in the future). 

Just throwing some ideas out, I really love doing this youth stuff, and get alot of it because of my kids, but for those without kids, they don't know this is out there.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Plugging Along said:


> Just throwing some ideas out, I really love doing this youth stuff, and get alot of it because of my kids, but for those without kids, they don't know this is out there.


These are all really great ideas. Thanks so much!

And I would have never had the time to pursue any of these things while I worked 50 hour weeks.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

james4beach said:


> These are all really great ideas. Thanks so much!
> 
> And I would have never had the time to pursue any of these things while I worked 50 hour weeks.


i personally believe if someone is really interested in something they will find a way. I did/do these things while working full Time, and taking care of my two kids, and other side hustles. It was difficult when I started working 70 hours again, I found these extras were just adding to the stress. Some told me to quite the extra stuffs but I decided to go back to 40 hour week. 

My point is that people often wait until they retire or until financial Iindependance before they pursue things they enjoy. I say try them out while you are on your journey there. Doing a lot of these things now, has given me ideas on what I will do when I am fully retired and have an extra 40-50 hours a week.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

james4beach said:


> ... Yes, absolutely is possible. Architects, engineers, accountants can easily determine their own projects and scale down their hours to a minimal level ...


Not just these ones ... three other retired nurses went into part time doing custom cakes, wedding photography and RV trailer sales.

All interests they did while working but didn't have as much time for as they wanted.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Plugging Along said:


> ... My point is that people often wait until they retire or until financial Iindependance before they pursue things they enjoy. I say try them out while you are on your journey there ...


My retired neighbour commented that where one retires later in life, it's more a challenge to pickup new activities. He figured more people should retire earlier where I figured more people should make sure they do some of what they enjoy while working to make the transition less of a jolt (i.e. more time to do what is already being done as opposed to starting from scratch).


Cheers


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Eclectic21 said:


> My retired neighbour commented that where one retires later in life, it's more a challenge to pickup new activities. He figured more people should retire earlier where I figured more people should make sure they do some of what they enjoy while working to make the transition less of a jolt (i.e. more time to do what is already being done as opposed to starting from scratch).
> 
> 
> Cheers


Agreed. my father in law was eligible to retire for years and talked about it. My mother in law wouldnt let him until he came up with activities of his own. She told him she had her own thing and needed to find his own before he should pull the cord. Best advice ever.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eclectic21 said:


> Not just these ones ... three other retired nurses went into part time doing custom cakes, wedding photography and RV trailer sales.
> 
> All interests they did while working but didn't have as much time for as they wanted.


Good point. It just shows how it's possible (for virtually anyone) to get involved in a new project or type of employment.

You just have to be interested in doing it. There are many ways to make money out there. One of my aunts teaches private English lessons and does dog walking. Combined with CPP + OAS, it pays all her living expenses.


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## wayward__son (Nov 20, 2017)

Parkgavsop said:


> I have found that there are many cases of people who nail the financial independence goal but struggle with the “what now”.
> 
> It seems this happens with traditional retire early folks equally.


This is baffling to me. Generally, if I am getting paid to do something, it means it's not fun or meaningful enough for me to do it for free. If you are really in that rarest of occupations where you would do exactly what you are doing now with no money in it for you, then congratulations, keep doing what you're doing. for the rest of us, a bit of soul searching might be in order if nothing comes to mind after financial independence other than "keep working".


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## Parkgavsop (Aug 14, 2021)

It seems that fun activities can lose their fun when they become paid and paid activities are more fun when done for free.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

wayward__son said:


> If you are really in that rarest of occupations where you would do exactly what you are doing now with no money in it for you, then congratulations, keep doing what you're doing.


That's what I did, turned something fun that I did on my own time (and money) into a career. Sure, there were times when it wasn't fun (silly idea to work on) but those rarely happened, thankfully.



Parkgavsop said:


> It seems that fun activities can lose their fun when they become paid and paid activities are more fun when done for free.


And that's the good thing about being financially independent, just change the activity to something else ... totally on a whim if you like.


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## OneSeat (Apr 15, 2020)

I am bothered that so many people have written recently to say that paid work cannot be fun. How much of that is caused by the employer and how much by the employee?

Have I just been lucky that I can say in all truth that I enjoyed every job, every boss, every location of my working life - or is there a different approach to life that assists this? 

Certainly some of my jobs, and some of my bosses, were 'more enjoyable' than others but on three separate occasions I recommended to my boss's boss that "changes should be made" and suggested what I thought might help.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I retired 16 years ago so that I would never again have to take orders from another man or woman. Working part time in retirement never even crossed my mind. I didn't think they were paying me enough for what I put up with at my job at MegaCorp, so why would I work for even less money after that and take orders from someone again?


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## kork (Jun 9, 2012)

OneSeat said:


> I am bothered that so many people have written recently to say that paid work cannot be fun. How much of that is caused by the employer and how much by the employee?


^ This. I always felt that "work" was work and wasn't supposed to be enjoyable. Even though I initially went through school to make movies and film, I always felt guilty that I was in an industry that created joy for most. I then shifted to high tech work (at the time, a programmer) and so my mind shifted to the "You get paid to do something that shouldn't be pleasant."

But after reaching FIRE and much soul searching and a few steps up the career ladder, I thought to myself. "Wait, why isn't this fun?" And then had a paradigm shift. All of a sudden, I wasn't doing my job because I was exchanging life energy for money, I was doing it because I enjoyed the socialization, the challenge, the building and creative outlet my role provides.

I no longer needed the money. I just happened to get it in the form of a salary. If I quit my job, I'd still do what I do. Could be that I'm only 42, but I've hated some places I've worked because of management.

But never the job itself. It's important for me to separate the two.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Parkgavsop said:


> It seems that fun activities can lose their fun when they become paid and paid activities are more fun when done for free.


I find this just the opposite. I have very limited time for just 'fun' activities, so I try to bring fun and enjoyment into as many activities as possible, that includes work. 

I think where it no longer is fun is if the demands of the activity or the additional 'business administration' activities that many don't think about get in the way. I enjoy doing things for my kids and their friends. 




wayward__son said:


> This is baffling to me. Generally, if I am getting paid to do something, it means it's not fun or meaningful enough for me to do it for free. If you are really in that rarest of occupations where you would do exactly what you are doing now with no money in it for you, then congratulations, keep doing what you're doing. for the rest of us, a bit of soul searching might be in order if nothing comes to mind after financial independence other than "keep working".


I find it most flattering when someone offers to pay me for something that I was doing for free. I wouldn't consider it occupations but rather hobbies that someone thinks I am talented enough to offer me money.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

kork said:


> ^ This. I always felt that "work" was work and wasn't supposed to be enjoyable. Even though I initially went through school to make movies and film, I always felt guilty that I was in an industry that created joy for most. I then shifted to high tech work (at the time, a programmer) and so my mind shifted to the "You get paid to do something that shouldn't be pleasant."
> 
> But after reaching FIRE and much soul searching and a few steps up the career ladder, I thought to myself. "Wait, why isn't this fun?" And then had a paradigm shift. All of a sudden, I wasn't doing my job because I was exchanging life energy for money, I was doing it because I enjoyed the socialization, the challenge, the building and creative outlet my role provides.
> 
> ...


I have almost always enjoyed my work. I always figure if I hated it why was I there. Don't get me wrong, I have had some really crappy jobs, mostly bosses, work environment. I felt that there was something I needed to learn or do at that job. I have looked at each job that I have had, and decided why I was there, money was/is never the number 1. Some things that kept me there was the social aspect, the growth opportunities both within in the company or myself, personal challenge, contributing to society, etc. 

The most empowering thing I have learned is that I ALWAYS have a choice. I may not have liked everything, but I choose to be there. If not, I could find another job. Even before we were somewhat financially secure, we always had a float so if things got bad, I could always say FU. Only had to do it once. It is a great feeling know that if you quit (even if you are not fully FI), you will be fine. I am working right now for all the extras for my kids which I am happy to do.


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## wayward__son (Nov 20, 2017)

i overstated my point. much respect to the folks on this forum who've found meaning and joy in their businesses and paid work sufficient to continue after financial independence. in my own career ive made lifelong friends and generally look back on it all with a sense of gratitude. i cant say i would have done it for free but that's my own completely subjective experience. my main point was that there is an infinite expanse of possible 'things to do' in this world of ours and for me at least there's enough in that expanse that interests me that i am pretty comfortable that i wont need to go back to the office to fill my time if i dont need to do it for cashflow.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Speaking of "then what"... today instead of working, I'm putting on my swim shorts and heading out for a swim in the sun. I like to count how many laps I can do, and try to increase it every time.

Maybe I'll get some sushi after that.

I've also got a somewhat leaky toilet and plan to swing by the hardware store and pick up a Mansfield flush valve seal. I spent some time on Youtube learning about the Mansfield toilet mechanism.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

New guy here. I retired at 51, am 59 now and have never lacked for things to do. Since retirement I have done a major renovation to my house, and we bought a cabin and done some work on that. I work out regular, play golf, we mini-snowbird (1 - 2 months away). We're rarely bored and sometimes even wish we had more time in the day,

The very last thing I want to do is work part time, and I have a hard time understanding why people retire and then look for more work?


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I stopped work mid 50's after a disaster obliterated my lifestyle and business. Was a very hard thing to deal with for years, but changed everything and several years later I love my life. I never worry about how to fill my days and they go by so quickly. I rarely set an alarm, play lots of golf, work around our place, educate myself, make our income from investing and just do whatever I want, whenever I want.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I am just starting on easing out of full time work. Three weeks into it so far, so no real big patterns yet. 

I do feel some stress slipping away. I now tend to wake up closer to 7am, while full time it was 5:30 or 6am. Al this with no alarm clock.

Dropped being salaried, now variable hours with 22.5hrs min in a week to still qualify for benefits. So far since slow, just 22.5, though could be more if get busy. Less take home pay, but less work too.

So Mon and Fri I turn on computer at 10am, check for any pressing emails, and turn on phone which work phone rings though on as well, Do same thing at 1pm, and shut down at 3. If any issues I deal with on these days I log the task time, it just means shorter days for Tues, Wed and Thurs when I go in to work at the office. 

Used to start at 8am, now go in about 9, but might start going back to earlier, because traffic going in later is a bigger PIA.


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## GL from QC (Nov 18, 2021)

Newbie here.  Just finished reading the whole thread, and yep, I can definitely relate to some of this...

I retired 6 months ago, at the ripe age of 34. It's a lean-FIRE sort of retirement, where you can live frugally and thus retire way earlier. (Moving from Toronto to Quebec City definitely helped!) I used to be a workaholic, to the point where sometimes I'd sleep at the office, or work 85 hours a week (or 75 hours, if you exclude the commute) to clean up other people's messes. Ahh, Amazon...

I think this particular issue affects men much more than women: we guys aren't as good at developing social circles outside work, external hobbies like book clubs, etc. It's particularly bad in the expat community - there's a well-deserved stereotype of retired foreigners sliding into alcoholism with all the cheap foreign booze and no other plans... (Despite the fact that they're in a tropical paradise with amazing weather.)

Personally, it took me months to fully catch up on sleep, and even now I lounge in bed (it's so comfortable lol) for hours before finally getting out. Some people love structure and schedule out their entire day: I just check my stocks, read the news, chat with online friends on Reddit, then continue the long process of catching up on all the books, movies, TV shows, and video games I missed out on during my 11.5-year workaholic career. (That's a loooong to-do list haha)

I found that it helps to explore hobbies and things that are far outside your usual, pre-retirement routine. I've started exercising (alternating leg/arm days, with Sundays off), learning French (easy now that I'm in Quebec!), going on a lot of long walks, got a couple of air plants (they're very hard to kill), and even got a 20-gallon aquarium. (I'm a proud owner of two guppies, Fishmael and Fishabella.) I also keep trying to raise a sourdough starter, but to no avail. Someday... Oh, and learning how to cook, too. I'm proud to say that I make a mean omelet these days.

The exact combination of post-retirement hobbies is different for everyone - you just gotta keep trying and see what sticks. The key point is this: make your present more enticing than your past.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Retired early. Took time to downsize, get our house ready for sale, then sold. Kept only what fit into an 8X8X16 container. Traveled internationally for 8 months. 

Since then, pre covid, we spent a great deal of time traveling. At least two trips a year, 8-10 weeks long. Independent and very spontaneous. Desperate for covid to end so our travels can commence. In the meantime we have been adding to our travel bucket lists...or at least I have.


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