# Another car thread!.. Opinions :)



## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Im 22 working in alberta 2 weeks on one off making around 80-90k a year and have been working for a year. I live with my parents cover my expenses (food, utilities) but don't pay a rent cost (if that makes sense). Job is stable with at least 2 more years on this project. Been able to save like a mad man and i'm extremely lucky and fortunate of my situation. 

So ive been using my parents vehicle and taking transit/taxis. I've owned two vehicles before a van and a truck which I used for work (landscaping) but sold the truck once I got this work position. Im thinking of buying a vehicle but it seems hard to justify the costs but I love the freedom of a vehicle plus I would be able to enjoy my time off a bit more and go for more adventures.

Current car i'm looking at is a 2009 Mazada3 2.3L sedan with 93k KM for 8500-9000$. Certified and e tested. I figure insurance will be 200$ - $250 per month based on a online quotation site and what I was paying for my truck. The little amount of KM I will be putting on it if I did need to sell it it will hold its value fairly well. 

When I lay it out the costs like this, it seems like unnecessary spending but I will eventually need a car so its more so the insurance thats the killer.

Thoughts?


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

Unless it is a rare exotic and/or vintage collectors' item cars - generic used or new cars - will lose money most if not all the time, if we strictly just crunch the numbers. The main notable variables are how much value we place on our time and freedom. 

I'm not a car expert nor a car enthusiast. And I'm also not a DIY person. So I go for reliability. My core maxim in all my spendings is always-always get what I can afford. Freedom or I prefer to call it convenience and time saved in my context I placed a high premium.

Sorry for not answering your qts directly. Hope you will make a good and wise decision!


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

You make good money and don't have a lot of expenditure so if you want a car and don't have to finance it I would say go for it. The freedom is nice if you can afford it. Just keep in mind that most vehicles go to $0 or thereabouts so if you are moderately frugal you don't want to spend more than you have to to get around.

If you can hold off insurance becomes substantially cheaper around age 25. I pay around $100/month for full coverage on my 2009 Honda Fit.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

You might look into renting for when you feel the need ... around here weekend rentals are not expensive ... my son and a few friends would chip in for their weekends away ... a new car every time out :encouragement:


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

I have checked out the same model trying to find something 5K but they were all beat up. My last truck I sold it for 2K more then i bought it for needed lots of money because I cheaped out when i purchased it trying to keep the initial cost low which ended up costing me more in the end. Good lesson learned. 

Ive looked into rentals but the gosh darn underage fee is RIDICULOUS! Ended up costing me around 80$ for a rental in calgary for the day. I guess that time say 4 days i'm home is 320$ so technically cheaper then owning but its hard to justify.

Its more so when everyones at work/school I just end up bumming around town. Going to go check it out today. Well see what happens lol.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Man up and buy a car. Quit sucking on your parent's tits. 

With your income you should own your own house too. Pathetic.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

If you're going to continue to use your parent's car, then it would be appropriate to pay them for gas and maintenance. Same with rent ... you could offer to pay them $500 per month. This is still much cheaper than renting on your own, but also shows your parents some respect. They may not ask for the rent, but you can be sure they've talked about it amongst themselves.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Unless your parents have a spare vehicle that does not inconvenience them when you want their vehicle, I would suggest 'cease and desist' using their vehicle and get your own, OR as suggested by mind_business, pay them a fair daily rental when used (and replace gas used), and also pay them the insurance topoff they are also paying for having an under-25 driver on their insurance policy. I suspect that under-25 rider is costing them real money.

As for home costs, it might be a fair tradeoff for you paying proportionately for the food you eat, especially food you want and they would not ordinarily buy for themselves, and a share of utilities. OTOH, it would be cleaner and less complicated to 'gift' them circa $500 a month instead.

Edit: Deleted judgemental sentence.


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## randomthoughts (May 23, 2010)

Wow, some judging going on.

There's nothing wrong with accepting help from your parents, especially if you're ensuring that you're saving the money you would otherwise spend on rent and car. Just be sure that everyone's happy with the arrangement and no one's feeling taken advantage of.

You have the opportunity to prioritize your goals. If having a car is one of them, and you can afford it... then ok. But weigh the costs against everything else you could do with the money - eventually moving out (if you want to) and the associated costs (rent/mortgage). It does sound like owning a car at this stage is more expensive than it's worth due to insurance while young.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

randomthoughts said:


> There's nothing wrong with accepting help from your parents, especially if you're ensuring that you're saving the money you would otherwise spend on rent and car. Just be sure that everyone's happy with the arrangement and no one's feeling taken advantage of.
> 
> You have the opportunity to prioritize your goals. If having a car is one of them, and you can afford it... then ok. But weigh the costs against everything else you could do with the money - eventually moving out (if you want to) and the associated costs (rent/mortgage). It does sound like owning a car at this stage is more expensive than it's worth due to insurance while young.


I disagree to a point. Accepting the help of parents is fine within limitations. The way to properly assess whether to get a car or not is to evaluate the costs of getting a car versus the 'fair cash cost' of the alternative, i.e. a commercial rental, or the parent's car. For the parent's car, that would include, as a minimum, gas money and the cost of the underage 25 rider on parent's insurance. Parents should not be out any real cash money. There is no free ride.


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## randomthoughts (May 23, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I disagree to a point. Accepting the help of parents is fine within limitations. The way to properly assess whether to get a car or not is to evaluate the costs of getting a car versus the 'fair cash cost' of the alternative, i.e. a commercial rental, or the parent's car. For the parent's car, that would include, as a minimum, gas money and the cost of the underage 25 rider on parent's insurance. Parents should not be out any real cash money. There is no free ride.


Eh, we say that, but some people do get free rides. As someone who didn't have parents help financially, I try not to envy them 

I think it's hard not to stunt growth with a lot of help - examples abound of kids who get used to a disposable income that they'll likely never have once independent. But it should be possible with discipline, guidance and some degree of self-awareness.


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## rossco12 (Dec 4, 2013)

praire_guy said:


> Man up and buy a car. Quit sucking on your parent's tits.
> 
> With your income you should own your own house too. Pathetic.


Completely uncalled for. It's this pride and mentality that will enslave western society to the East Indians and Chinese, those who work together as a family. 80-90k really isn't that much money if you send someone out to buy a car and a house in an inflated market. Paying your own expenses and rent to the parents makes good sense, considering more likely than not, that he will end up with a portion of their estate at some time.

What is really pathetic is the notion that every young person who makes decent money should give it away to the banks by means of a mortgage when there are other viable options available that allow them to build wealth.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Not uncalled for at all. 90k is more money than most families make. 

If,you can't live of 90k, especially single you have a problem. 

Time to man up. The economy doesn't chug along by people not spending money.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

mind_business said:


> If you're going to continue to use your parent's car, then it would be appropriate to pay them for gas and maintenance. Same with rent ... you could offer to pay them $500 per month. This is still much cheaper than renting on your own, but also shows your parents some respect. They may not ask for the rent, but you can be sure they've talked about it amongst themselves.


I think along this same line. If you can't work out something they've honestly said they're fine with get your own car. Re living with them have an honest discussion on what they think is reasonable letting them know you want to pay your own way.


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## Tightwad (Mar 28, 2014)

30seconds said:


> Current car i'm looking at is a 2009 Mazada3 2.3L sedan with 93k KM for 8500-9000$.


That makes it 5+ years old and off warranty. The first half of a vehicle's life is worth far more than the last half, and I always work on a ten year life even though I get far more.

Bad deal considering I almost bought a NEW 2013 Mazda 3 Skyactive Sedan last fall for $19,375 out the door...yes HST included.

Buy a new reliable car, look after it and get fifteen years out of it. That is the best deal.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow that got interesting. Not that this thread was about my living situation but i guess I put that out there. I do pay for gas and the insurance and they are never inconvenienced. For food its not like we track the bills its a fairly consistent and agreed upon amount. I think they don't mind because they see that I am saving and not spending my money foolishly. I wouldn't say i've had a free ride by any means. I paid for my university and now just trying to save up so i'm not in a continuous cycle of buy, spend and get stuck/worry if mortgage rates rise 3%.

I agree with rossco. It has a lot to do with pride. I don't mind staying at home for a little longer being able to save up for a place to live. Trust me I want to move out but at this point I feel its better to wait. A vast majority of people my age in my area still live with their parents. Just cause I make more money..(which comes with the "sacrifice" of being away.. any one can move to alberta and make this kind of money) doesn't make me pathetic to stay with my parents. So many folks my age live for the weekend/moment and haven't even thought of savings or retirement. 

As for the vehicle in question.. my father was actually one of the ones to talk me out of it. Said its essentially spending 15K$ for the year (of course I keep the vehicle but thats cash out of pocket for the year). I can see why financing can be so attractive, doesn't hit you all at once even though it costs more in the long run. Emotions. Will continue the hunt next time i'm home for something cheaper Plus the more I read about the mazda 3 apparently they still hadn't fixed the rust issue in 2009! 

The new vehicles are a good deal considering some still offer 0% financing or close to it. For me I don't know where or what ill be doing in five years so I can't see my self buying a car and holding it for 15 years. Plus I like something if I scratch or throw a canoe on top I wont be worried about.

Thanks for you opinions/criticism!


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## rossco12 (Dec 4, 2013)

30seconds said:


> Wow that got interesting. Not that this thread was about my living situation but i guess I put that out there. I do pay for gas and the insurance and they are never inconvenienced. For food its not like we track the bills its a fairly consistent and agreed upon amount. I think they don't mind because they see that I am saving and not spending my money foolishly. I wouldn't say i've had a free ride by any means. I paid for my university and now just trying to save up so i'm not in a continuous cycle of buy, spend and get stuck/worry if mortgage rates rise 3%.
> 
> I agree with rossco. It has a lot to do with pride. I don't mind staying at home for a little longer being able to save up for a place to live. Trust me I want to move out but at this point I feel its better to wait. A vast majority of people my age in my area still live with their parents. Just cause I make more money..(which comes with the "sacrifice" of being away.. any one can move to alberta and make this kind of money) doesn't make me pathetic to stay with my parents. So many folks my age live for the weekend/moment and haven't even thought of savings or retirement.
> 
> ...


I think I understand your situation pretty well. I work out of town with all expenses paid, whether it be camp or town, for periods of 3-5 weeks at a time, then come "home" for a week or two. Most of my time is spent with the GF or friends and then all of a sudden it's back to work again. The only real estate I would consider buying would be a rental with good cash flow, provided I could find a responsible tenant. Just keep saving and watching for the right deal, whether it be for real estate or a vehicle. 

If you're mechanically inclined, or know anyone mechanically inclined and a good negotiator, have them help you find the right wheels. Certain vehicles hold their value substantially more and I'm a huge fan of buying the right used one. If you don't pile on the miles, look for a well maintained Honda Civic from 1992-2000 with under 200 000kms. You can pick up a clean reliable ride for under $3000, drive it with exceptional fuel economy for a few years and sell it at hardly any loss. The main thing is taking your time in finding the right car, and being willing to walk away from it if it isn't what you expect. Whoever is most desperate to make the deal, loses. 

Debt on depreciating assets (liabilities) enslaves us. When you buy a new vehicle on payments, you lose financially. Every time unless it's written off through a company. Vehicles are just about the most rapidly depreciating acquisition you or I will ever make, if you follow the credit herd, it's worth nothing as an asset by the time it's paid off. Fortunately, there are lots of people willing to buy them and take the 40% depreciation for you, not to mention keep the economy chugging along as praire_guy is concerned about. If you want to make payments on something shiny and under warrantee, at least look for a lease takeover.


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

rossco12 said:


> I think I understand your situation pretty well. I work out of town with all expenses paid, whether it be camp or town, for periods of 3-5 weeks at a time, then come "home" for a week or two. Most of my time is spent with the GF or friends and then all of a sudden it's back to work again. The only real estate I would consider buying would be a rental with good cash flow, provided I could find a responsible tenant. Just keep saving and watching for the right deal, whether it be for real estate or a vehicle.
> 
> If you don't pile on the miles, look for a well maintained Honda Civic from 1992-2000 with under 200 000kms. You can pick up a clean reliable ride for under $3000, drive it with exceptional fuel economy for a few years and sell it at hardly any loss. The main thing is taking your time in finding the right car, and being willing to walk away from it if it isn't what you expect. Whoever is most desperate to make the deal, loses.
> 
> Debt on depreciating assets (liabilities) enslaves us. When you buy a new vehicle on payments, you lose financially. Every time unless it's written off through a company. Vehicles are just about the most rapidly depreciating acquisition you or I will ever make, if you follow the credit herd, it's worth nothing as an asset by the time it's paid off. Fortunately, there are lots of people willing to buy them and take the 40% depreciation for you, not to mention keep the economy chugging along as praire_guy is concerned about. If you want to make payments on something shiny and under warrantee, at least look for a lease takeover.


That's the ticket right there. I am 25 and making 50k I lived at home until I was 23 and saved my dollars. I would be surprised if you could get insurance in Alberta at $230.00 a month at your age and with that car. I do not know your driving record or how long you have had insurance but I know they are not very nice to me and I have had one not at fault accident and they change me quite a bit already. 
I just sold my truck and am selling my BMW. I bought a 1999 Honda civic three weeks ago in the spirit of frugality and feel very good about this choice. The cool thing about the older Honda market is that what you buy it for is probably very close to what you will sell it for as most of the deprecation has already happened. They are easy to maintain and have pretty in expensive insurance.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I am not at all familiar with insurance in Alberta, but in BC and Ontario it is likely worthwhile being self-ensured for collision and not getting that coverage from the insurer.


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

Wow some strong opinions. As a parent I will have no problem helping my kids as long as they are helping themselves. Its about efficiency and working together as a team that's what a family does. 

If his parents can help him help himself then they are both doing the right thing. What is important is taking advantage of your opportunities. In this case the one his parents are giving him.

OP keep on doing what you're doing and don't listen to these people saying you should be on your own just because you can. There is no sense to it - in fact its retarded. When your parents are older, on fixed income etc etc..you'll be established and that's when you return the favor. 

Let the lone rangers go it alone.


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## Ebin (Feb 9, 2013)

thompsg4416 said:


> Wow some strong opinions. As a parent I will have no problem helping my kids as long as they are helping themselves. Its about efficiency and working together as a team that's what a family does.
> 
> If his parents can help him help himself then they are both doing the right thing. What is important is taking advantage of your opportunities. In this case the one his parents are giving him.
> 
> ...


+1.

My parents helped me a lot when I was young/young-ish - I had cheap rent, they helped with tuition and when it came time to buy a home they helped me there too. It sounds like some of you would call that era of me a lazy, entitled person; I prefer to think that I had very supportive parents.

Now that I'm doing well and they are retired I'm returning the favour - I pay for their vacations, I send them money each month, buy them gas when I get a chance and I pick up the tab anytime we go out.


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

Ebin said:


> +1.
> 
> My parents helped me a lot when I was young/young-ish - I had cheap rent, they helped with tuition and when it came time to buy a home they helped me there too. It sounds like some of you would call that era of me a lazy, entitled person; I prefer to think that I had very supportive parents.
> 
> Now that I'm doing well and they are retired I'm returning the favour - I pay for their vacations, I send them money each month, buy them gas when I get a chance and I pick up the tab anytime we go out.


Filial Piety! Well done!

May your children return your favour when you are retired!


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Two on- One off work schedule gives you about 10 days in town per month. A 3 day weekend car rental will run you about $100, and they'll pick you up from your house (Enterprise). Cab ride of $20/day for the remaining 7 days. 

That's about $240/month maxiumum on transportation? Can you pay for the maintenance, insurance, and depreciation on a car with $240/month? 

Sounds about break even to me using an excessive amount of tranportation on your days off. But I bet you will not be needing a cab ride every single day and a rental car every single shift off. You're probably better off finanically just renting when you want to drive to the mountains and taking a cab everywhere in the city.


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## HarrisJ4 (May 1, 2014)

Ebin said:


> +1.
> 
> My parents helped me a lot when I was young/young-ish - I had cheap rent, they helped with tuition and when it came time to buy a home they helped me there too. It sounds like some of you would call that era of me a lazy, entitled person; I prefer to think that I had very supportive parents.
> 
> Now that I'm doing well and they are retired I'm returning the favour - I pay for their vacations, I send them money each month, buy them gas when I get a chance and I pick up the tab anytime we go out.


Not to mention also generally takes more time for people to get going financially these days... though that doesn't really apply here - sounds like he's doing quite well for himself.


You can't make a money reselling a car but you can make a choice that will have minimum depreciation. Corolla, Civic, and Mazda 3 are all good choices. Go for it.


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## Tom Dl (Feb 15, 2011)

Didn't he say 80-90K "on and off". You make what you actually make, spikes and valleys.

I think you should get a car if you need one, and not if you don't. I have no idea how you maintain independence, have fun in Alberta (not much fly fishing or mountain climbing happening), and don't inconvenience your parents. But if you are managing, never waste a dime on a car. 

However, even with the strong income potential you refer to, you often don't progress in your career until you dive in and man up. You are doing great, but you may find more comes to you as soon as you send out the vibe that you are ready for it. I don't believe that Secret crap, but there are lots of real reasons why this stuff happens without believing in fairies. You get noticed at work as a guy moving ahead, it is a lot less common now, but family responsibilities, owning adult grade stuff often makes your employer see you as someone who is ready for (or burdened with) adult responsibilities. Maybe potential mates feel the same way. Obviously, in some cases nothing will move those markers, or you are Bieber and you don't need to worry about the money piece. I am not really sure that those of my friends who never learned to drive, and got around on bikes are the same ones who ended up ahead of the game, though it ought to be so.

By the way, paying your own way probably starts nearer 60 cents a KM. That includes gas. So you need to be paying the per KM difference to your parents, if you want to make sure they aren't out of pocket. Plus the insurance cost are currently paying.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

So I got a car! 2003 honda accord i4, 4 door, 1 lady owner who passed away. The car has 105000km and I got it at a dealership which offered a two year power train warranty. Cost 6000$ and insurance is 1700 a year. I guess thats the cost of freedom. Think I did alright on the car.. spent more time looking kijiji then I thought possible. 

Glad I got something slow.. not a care in the world to mod and will keep me out of trouble with the police  

Mom seems to be looking forward to using it when im gone instead of the van she currently drives.

Fingers crossed it lasts! Also I truly despise the dishonesty of people when selling a car. It gets tiring. They say not rust then theres rust, clean title, then it was in an accident. Glad its over


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

30seconds said:


> clean title, then it was in an accident. Glad its over


Congrats on the car. Honda Accords are known to be well built and reliable.

Just an FYI - clean title doesn't mean accident free, it means lien free.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

I mean on the car fax it shows if its been in an accident or has a rebuilt title. Unless im missing something?

One car had two different accident each costing 10000$! It didnt have any structural damage. He tried to convince me that itd be easy to get that high of costs in an accident. Then I tried opening the hood... which was stuck shut haha. Turned around and ran


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

30seconds said:


> I mean on the car fax it shows if its been in an accident or has a rebuilt title. Unless im missing something?


I don't think you're missing anything, just a matter of semantics. A "clean" or "clear" title general refers to a car with no lien from a creditor or third party. This is different from a rebuilt title, accident free etc. But they are all things you want to take into consideration when considering a used vehicle.

The way a lot of cars are built nowadays it really doesn't take all that much to accumulate up to 10K in damages. I had a very minor accident - a fender bender with a medium sized dog and I ended up having to replace the fender, radiator (small bend in it), fan kit, etc. and it was just over 4K. A friend of mine hit a deer with their truck and they had way less damage - just a little ding in the bumper! Additionally, some cars are simply more expensive to repair than other. Car insurance will vary by make and model as a result and sometimes the rates can be quite surprising. I always thought it would be more expensive to insure a large truck, but the Ford F150's have some of the lowest insurance rates. http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/documents/hcmu/2013/HCMU_E_2013.pdf


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## MasterCard (Aug 2, 2013)

A little overpriced? Wouldn't a newer Civic go for cheaper?


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

I wouldnt say it was a steal but I think it was a fair deal. Warranty, some what knowing it hasnt been beaten up and under budget good enough for me. I spent pretty much every day on my days off looking as well as looking around since before this thread was started. It gets tiring and ive come to realize you get what you pay for. If it looks to good to be true.. 9/10 it is lol


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## Tom Dl (Feb 15, 2011)

The best frugality thing I did when buying my first few vehicles was to buy a stripped version, We didn't even have a radio, though that is easily upgraded. We found that often the stripped car (harder to find these days, hard to find standard, for instance), was cheaper than the flashy one the guy had got a lot of options on and was trying to sell with reasonable 3-5 year mileage. The first truck we bought was a new ranger for 7995, while the cheapest second hand Ranger any of the lots had was over 12K.

Biggest lie I have come across is that automatic is more fuel efficient. I wish I could still get a truck with a shifter.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

I feel those would be hard to find niw other thrn at auctions and im not knowledge enough about cars or have much interest in them at all.

I feel the automatic vs manual is kinda the same as owning vs renting a house. If used properly the latter has a potential to be better but people (that I know) with manuals tend to revv the engine higher or leave it in second gear when in the city so less shifts. It does though help with brakes and fuel mileage if used correctly.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Tom Dl said:


> Biggest lie I have come across is that automatic is more fuel efficient. I wish I could still get a truck with a shifter.


You have a couple options yet... assuming you're looking for no more than a half-ton, there are manual Toyota Tacomas and the Nissan Frontiers. Tacomas are pricey (especially if you're going for the 4L 6-spd), frontiers not bad.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I have a Tacoma with a stick and I'm not sure it's more fuel efficient than an automatic... mostly because a stick is so much to fun drive that I find myself revving much higher than I need too, mostly for entertainment purposes. I will never have a vehicle with an automatic tranny.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Nice! That generation is better looking than the current one.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

The fun factor of driving a manual stick often leads to higher fuel consumption. Additionally, a lot of the newer automatic transmission are as good or surpassing their manual counterpart in terms of fuel economy.

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html 
Manual Transmissions Aren't Always Cheaper, More Fuel-Efficient

I've tried a variety of CVT's with paddle shifters and they simply don't shift like a stick.


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