# Disgusted



## 50invester (Feb 10, 2010)

I must say that I have been totally DISGUSTED with this market. I have been buying down Suncor since it was $40. How low can this thing go and how long should I hold it? Is this not the season that energy stocks should be performing? Any Comments?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Classic example of _The markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent_


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Don't sell anything, my friend. Things may not look great right now, but IT'S GOING TO BE OK.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

crumbs from headlines these days ... few days ago antafagasto of chile (world's biggest or 2nd biggest copper miner) said orders are down ... this am rio tinto's ceo weighed in with same lament ... one analyst recommending double short commodity etfs ... all this rubs off on oil stocks.

there are some quality energy companies down near early 2009 lows right now. They should be in every canadian portfolio. In time, they'll go back up. Please don't even think of selling.

btw what are winter weather predictions. Farmers' almanac stuff. A brutal winter would be a booster rocket.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Ever seen "Lock, Stock, and Two Smokin' Barrels"?

"_Chilllllllllll, Win-ston!_

Don't sell it. Just let it be and don't buy more than you can afford (ie. Margin)


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

The oilsands are still their and SU is still the biggest player.

My feeling is SU will fall further along with the markets in general, then Oil and commodity's will take a beating, and by this time next year........


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Sell and May and go away would have worked really well here! IMO Suncor is a buy above $14, maybe you could start averaging down as we get close to that. But I'm not an expert on oil. I've heard some pundits say WTI/Brent prices could stay depressed for some time.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

If you just bought this year, I would hold onto it for at least 10 years or until the price recovers, whichever comes first. You need to have long term horizons when buying market tops.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

All this is shaping up nicely for the RRSP and TFSA season early next year.
Keep the doom and gloom coming approx. once or twice a week for the next 4 months.
My trades should be all done by 29th Feb


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

What are you trading?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

ddkay said:


> What are you trading?


I should have said investments, instead of trades 
I'm plan to gradually average my way into oil, financial and any other depressed sector over the course of next few months.

No major purchases yet, though.
But if the correction continues, I will be doing so between Nov and Feb.
Roughly co-incides with the RRSP and TFSA seasons.

Primarily the mid cap to large cap Canadian and US names - SU for sure.
Among the financials I like BMO and BNS, but they are not near my interest range yet.
AGU and POT, too.
Also researching some mid and small cap - too early to commit yet.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Pundits on Commodity Speculation -> http://www.economonitor.com/lrwray/...e-of-all-time-commodities-market-speculation/


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

Suncor has now lost almost half it's value from the high earlier this year of $46. When is it time to back up the truck ??


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Start shovelling I'd say!


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

webber22 said:


> Suncor has now lost almost half it's value from the high earlier this year of $46. When is it time to back up the truck ??


You'll see it drop a lot further before it recovers. But that allows lots of buying opportunity. As long as you're not being forced to sell there's no need to sweat about it, celebrate!


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

But, then again, there is the very real possibility that we are just three years into an economic slump that could last for many more years. We could be facing slow to no growth for a very long time in which case don't look for much of a rebound in equities for a long time--possibly years. Maybe that's what the markets are telling us!! An anemic economy does not bode well for energy companies!!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I added some more to my existing long position in HSE.
(With apologies to the non-believers)


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

We will always need energy.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

harold if you're buying husky then i'm willing to start believing in the company


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I am.
I bought a tranche when it dropped under $24.
Bought a smaller lot under $22.
I realized I have been underweight in this gem in the last few years.
It's perhaps been for the better though, since it has yo-yoed between $25 and $31 in the last 2 years.

If you dig through their activities since Ashim Gosh took over as CEO from the previous clown, you can see how they have been acquiring key properties all across the west.
They were the largest acquirers in the federal govt. auction a month or so ago.
Add to it the fact how they have been fixing their downstream problems, fixing the pipeline issues, fixing anything that was keeping production low, the gas development in the south China sea, the tightening of the spreads between heavy/TWI and Brent, the improving health of Li, etc.

They haven't made much noise about most of this, which might indicate they are preparing internally for any upcoming growth spurt.

Of course, I could be wrong, so I don't put all eggs in one basket.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Belguy said:


> But, then again, there is the very real possibility that we are just three years into an economic slump that could last for many more years. We could be facing slow to no growth for a very long time in which case don't look for much of a rebound in equities for a long time--possibly years. Maybe that's what the markets are telling us!! An anemic economy does not bode well for energy companies!!


Than buy CPG, DAY, AVF .... 7-10% dividends, at least some cash flow if market continue to sink


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

I could see picking away at DAY maybe as it's lost half it's value in the past few months and is now paying over 10%. I wouldn't touch CPG....it could still dump to 22 bucks if things continue, and a 7% yield won't mean much with a 45% haircut. They can't even really afford to be paying what they are paying without their endless financings and DRIP program.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Only buy and hold and forget should be disgusted. When markets were high in the first half of the year you should have increased your cash position in this environment so you can take start taking advantage of the lower prices we are now seeing. Systemic risk has been there since 2007 and one must always have a eye on it to take advantage of the highs and the lows in the market. I am not talking market timing but instead talking about keeping some of your money safe in case the problems hit the markets like we have seen in the second half of this year.

Buy hold and ignore the noise is for secular bull markets.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

bobwatford123 said:


> I could see picking away at DAY maybe as it's lost half it's value in the past few months and is now paying over 10%. I wouldn't touch CPG....it could still dump to 22 bucks if things continue, and a 7% yield won't mean much with a 45% haircut. They can't even really afford to be paying what they are paying without their endless financings and DRIP program.


I don't know why are you slamming CPG if DAY is in a much worse situation, they can't afford the payout even though it's mostly financed through drip and new shares, and already have been cutting dividends for the last 6 years.

10% dividends is currently an indication of company having issues, not just the market conditions.


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

Homerhomer said:


> I don't know why are you slamming CPG if DAY is in a much worse situation, they can't afford the payout even though it's mostly financed through drip and new shares, and already have been cutting dividends for the last 6 years.
> 
> 10% dividends is currently an indication of company having issues, not just the market conditions.


True, both companies are borderline ponzi schemes in a sense of paying back investors with their own money with an expanding share base, but at least DAY is already lost half it's value....CPG still needs to take their hit.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

bobwatford123 said:


> True, both companies are borderline ponzi schemes in a sense of paying back investors with their own money with an expanding share base, but at least DAY is already lost half it's value....CPG still needs to take their hit.


that is terrible mentality, when company a lost more value then company b in the same market environment that doesn't mean company a is a better buy, that's how you go broke


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

blin10 said:


> that is terrible mentality, when company a lost more value then company b in the same market environment that doesn't mean company a is a better buy, that's how you go broke


You got me. I know nothing about trading


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

bobwatford123 said:


> You got me. I know nothing about trading


ya I forgot everyone is a buffet here, forgive me....


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## v_tofu (Apr 16, 2009)

2008 Lehmans part deux?


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> I am.
> I bought a tranche when it dropped under $24.
> Bought a smaller lot under $22.
> I realized I have been underweight in this gem in the last few years.
> ...


Thanks for your insight harold. We have a small position @ $25 and I was thinking about doubling up. But this stock has been taking a lot..


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

You guys are all making me feel bearish about my CPG now.

Thanks a lot


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

suggest pay no attention to bobwatford123, look at his previous cmf messages including those stereotypical touts for penny stock nwm mining that nobody here ever responded to. He's a typical stock pump/basher of the type that infests other message boards but fortunately not this forum.

this anti cpg drek is re-re-re-recycled brian acker, been around for years, acker was shorting cpg (he said) like years ago when stock was in the 20s lol.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Well, thanks humble.

Hitting $30 is fine, but to hit $20 and lose over 50% of its value..... would be a bit scary. Don't know how well I would deal with that one as I like the stock, but its not exactly my favourite.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hit 30 ? hit 20 ? drop 50% ?

this is not cpg so i'm not sure what stock U R ref'ing ...

no matter. Point is that the handful of posters w agendas - the posters who are advertisers - should be ignored.


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

Not sure what justified that extremely hostile immature response humble, but everything I said about CPG is quite true. And looking into it it appears Acker shorted it in the 40's, so not sure why you are lying about him shorting it in the 20's years ago. When you are trying to appear credible, try to not make it up as you go along. 
As for NMW, it's a decent stock just starting gold production, been hurt recently with the market downtrend being a small cap. Sorry, I was unaware people weren't allowed to introduce stocks under a dollar on the forum. Please continue boss. You clearly run things here.


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

Just to put humble's silliness about Acker shorting CPG in the 20's to rest, I just found this from stockchase....

DON'T BUY *42.600 *Brian Acker, CA He has been Short on this one for some time and *it is now right about the cost where he has shorted it*. Has a yield of 6.84%. Earnings are $0.56 this year. They're not covering their dividend. His model price is $27.70, a negative 35%. He thinks it's worth around $27-$28. 2011-07-08

P.S. I'm no fan of Acker or his modelling, but please try to keep it on the up and up humble pie. Nobody needs to be misled in this market especially by someone so willing to attack someones character for no apparent reason, other than they disagree with my quite legitimate analysis of CPG.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

But Mr. Acker also said this 6 months ago:

"DON'T BUY Apple AAPL-Q 339.190 Model price is $260. Down 22% from where it is now. If you are a growth manager, maybe. "

And its up 18.5% in those 6 months, after todays horrible close.

Model Price $260.... and just a couple days ago it was $423...


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

He also said to buy Cameco on weakness at $31. The stock is now under $20.

"BUY on WEAKNESS Cameco Corporation CCO-T 30.970 Suspects it will come back. Model price $32.94. If it came back to the $28 level it would be good for a short-term trade. "


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I don't think anybody is being "mislead" here.

It is all just opinions. If someone chooses to take advice, it is ultimately their choice in the end.


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

As I said, I'm no fan of Acker or his modelling and he's often wrong. That being said I'm sure you can go on stock chase and look at just about everyone's buy recommendations on the majority of stocks over the past year and they were wrong as of today. This has nothing to do with Acker and humble brought him up, not me. 
I have more of a problem with humble pie attacking my character for no reason other than I have a differing opinion on CPG, and I made 3 posts about a start up micro cap producing gold company, out of my 25 or so other posts about real estate etc. This coming from someone misleading people about Acker shorting CPG in the 20's? 

_"......pay no attention to bobwatford123......He's a typical stock pump/basher of the type that infests other message boards"_
Give me a break. I find this a decent forum, and I will admit I forgot to ask king humble pie's permission to start a thread about a start up producing gold company in addition to my many questions about real estate etc, but his attack on me was completely out of line...period.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> He also said to buy Cameco on weakness at $31. The stock is now under $20.
> 
> "BUY on WEAKNESS Cameco Corporation CCO-T 30.970 Suspects it will come back. Model price $32.94. If it came back to the $28 level it would be good for a short-term trade. "


Check what said Acker about Nortel couple of years ago 

"BUY 11.140 Brian Acker, CA (Market Call Minute.) First time in 5 years that it is trading below his model price, which is $13.26. A 14% positive differential. 2008/02/07)" ... in 8 months Nortel became $1....


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

great stuff !!

the hallmark of every pumper/basher: a kalashnikov AK47 assault rifle filthy firing mouth.

who cares what acker says about cpg these days. Acker's a laughingstock. Just like i said, bashing & shorting crescent point for years. Wrong every time.

plus our bob didn't have a "differing" opinion about cpg. He had a libellous opinion about cpg. Says it's a ponzi scheme. Here in this thread. No explanation. Tch, tch.

as for nwm mining, it's one of hundreds of thousands of old mine properties up & down the americas, usually with low-grade ore or deeper orebodies, that are being re-developed because high gold prices have possibly made them economic at last.

here's our bob on 18 aug/2011 in his opening nwm message. It's a classic tout, festooned with coy hints of takeovers plus likely quadrupling to a 60-cent 3-bagger share price by this winter:
_
" Not sure if any of you buy penny stocks but this one is trading at 13 cents on the Venture exchange and just started producing gold 3 months ago. Worth reading this news from a couple of weeks ago, if you are interested in getting in before it might take off or is taken over - meaning if they hit their targets it should trade at least at 50-60 cents a share this winter or spring and who
doesn't like a 3 bagger."_

http://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/showpost.php?p=81121&postcount=1

and our bob didn't stop there. When nobody replied, he came back to beat the dead cat with another tout predicting the stock would hit 20 cents by september, which is this month. Stock instead has sunk to 12 pennies. And then when still nobody replied, bob was back again for a 3rd pump. All in less than 3 weeks.

it's so rare to see a pump parade in cmf forum. Nearly all of the single stock threads in this forum are genuine discussions, offering lively views pro & con. These have real value for diy investors.

classic sign of a pump: oily promises of specific high stock prices in the near future. As in 50-60 cents by this winter/spring. As in 20 cents by september.


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

Oh my, I must have hit a nerve exposing humble pie's lies about his hero Acker shorting CPG in the 20's.
Also I'm terribly sorry for posting about NWM 3 times in the same thread, and I guess I shouldn't have replied to my own thread two weeks later when NWM was up *30%* to 17 cents....and no doubt would have surpassed 20 cents if gold didn't break down. Please sir, forgive me. Again, I didn't realize you ran the show here and people weren't allowed to start threads and then repost to that thread when the stock has risen 30%. How DARE me!
P.S. CPG is down again today and DAY is up....


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

As I type this CPG is down 2.71%, DAY is up 2.29%....a difference of 5% in one day. Isn't that two thirds of CPG's entire dividend payout for a full year? Yep, don't listen to typical pump/ basher bob indeed


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Whoah. bobwatford123 got ego issues or wat!




bobwatford123 said:


> Oh my, I must have hit a nerve exposing humble pie's lies about his hero Acker shorting CPG in the 20's.
> Also I'm terribly sorry for posting about NWM 3 times in the same thread, and I guess I shouldn't have replied to my own thread two weeks later when NWM was up *30%* to 17 cents....and no doubt would have surpassed 20 cents if gold didn't break down. Please sir, forgive me. Again, I didn't realize you ran the show here and people weren't allowed to start threads and then repost to that thread when the stock has risen 30%. How DARE me!
> P.S. CPG is down again today and DAY is up....


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## bobwatford123 (Aug 9, 2011)

Addy said:


> Whoah. bobwatford123 got ego issues or wat!


Not really, just illustrating how silly humble pie was being yet again, making it sound like I couldn't follow up on a thread I started where a stock gained that much in two weeks. Can't wait for his 'brilliance' tonight. I'm sure he'll say his hero Acker shorted CPG at $10 this time...


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