# Financial Assistance for Dental Treatment for seniors



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

My mom is senior with very low single digit income.... Her tooth got broken and she needs implant that cost several thousand $$$... I was wondering if anyone dealt with Financial Assistance for Dental Treatment? Is it real to get reimbursement from them? at least partial?


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Financial Assistance with capitals, is that an insurance company? I know if you live near a dental school (I did when we were in Winnipeg), you can get almost free dental work done by students. And it's not as scary as it sounds, the professor (Dentist) supervises and I've heard great things from lower income people who have gone to get work done.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Depending on the province, there is often health and dental coverage for low income people. I'd search the appropriate provincial government website. Many of the programs aren't promoted, so those in need don't even know it's there but, from what I've heard, if it's a "need" type of procedure, it was covered.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Addy said:


> *Financial Assistance with capitals, is that an insurance company*? I know if you live near a dental school (I did when we were in Winnipeg), you can get *almost free dental work done by students*. And it's not as scary as it sounds, the professor (Dentist) supervises and I've heard great things from lower income people who have gone to get work done.


 ... if the senior person has pre-existing health problems, particularly a heart condition, I would be extra cautious about using this "almost free" dental work. Better to seek a professional DDS, especially with major dental work.

*For the OP*, can you not fund your mom's TFSA and help her with the cost?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

jacofan said:


> If she has a single digit income ($9??) likely her nutrition is not good. Implants require drilling into bone. Many seniors don't have solid enough bones to secure the implant in their bone - maybe she has bone loss? Why an implant and not a partial? If she is not in good shape medically, a dental implant procedure would be tough on her for sure. If not risky.


I'm telling only her income, but she has also savings, so she eat much healtier than we do. She had crown , that got broken together with tooth and shift (don't know how this stick is called) , so she needs gum surgery to extracts broken roots first....what after... have no idea, implant or partial (don't know what is it)....She has consultation tomorrow with private dentist...
_I'd search the appropriate provincial government website_ the problem that it's even not by province, but by district.... My mom lives in Halton district,ON... There is no any info on the website except general statement about eligibility, I sent email - they replied again with same general statement....


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

OK, my mom called Halton Financial Assistance for Dental Treatment and after describing the situation , they doesn't cover anything  
Actually, this is my biggest concern when we retire... as dental care in Canada is extremely expensive... I know people who wnet to Israel, Cuba, Ukraine (before recent events) ...to get dental care that is not worse than in canada, but much much cheaper ...
in many (even not developed ) countries there is free/subsidized dental care, especially for kids and seniors... too bad that canada instead of wasting $$$ on support people in Syria, Ukraine etc, doesn't give a [email protected] about their own people....It's not even in any major party agenda  

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...ary/pubs/BN/2011-2012/DentalSchemes#_ftnref20


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... if the senior person has pre-existing health problems, particularly a heart condition, I would be extra cautious about using this "almost free" dental work. Better to seek a professional DDS, especially with major dental work.


Carverman, do you honestly think they just accept anyone without screening? I worked at the hospital in Winnipeg where this service was offered.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Why are you asking Carverman when you're addressing my post? :confused2:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> I'm telling only her income, but she has also savings, so she eat much healtier than we do.* She had crown , that got broken together with tooth and shift (don't know how this stick is called) , so she needs gum surgery to extracts broken roots* first....what after... have no idea, implant or partial (don't know what is it)....She has consultation tomorrow with private dentist...
> _I'd search the appropriate provincial government website_ the problem that it's even not by province, but by district.... My mom lives in Halton district,ON... There is no any info on the website except general statement about eligibility, I sent email - they replied again with same general statement....


*I had the same problem and it turned out to be expensive.* I had to cover the cost out of pocket since my Nortel pensioner health/dental insurance expired 3 years ago after their bankruptcy.

HERE IS MY EXPERIENCE WITH ONE IMPLANT
================================
I had a nasty situation last year with a molar that had a root canal done a few years ago. (15?, maybe it was even 20), and a gold crown installed on it. It lasted until last year, when the tooth broke apart, and the crown came off requiring immediate attention because of a possible infection.

Went to my local family dentistry office where the dentist (a newbie) they hired, tried to extract what was left of the tooth.
After numerous needles for freezing that area, he set to work digging and breaking it out bit by bit and got 3 of of the
4 roots it had.. BUT after an hour or more of *SHEER TORTURE and pain in spite of the local freezing*..he was unable,
(*said he didn't have the right tools to get at that pesky remaining root*) so he gave up, *DIDN'T CHARGE ME THOUGH*, and referred me to an oral surgeon.:rolleyes2:

Went for a *1s*t pre-op appointment with the oral surgeon..some discussion on implant..$70 charged for consultation. 
Went for the* 2nd visit* for *monitored anaesthesia* , and* extraction of that pesky root*.
$400 for anesthesia
$400 for extraction
$500 for bovine bone filler to replace massive loss of bone in lower jaw due to the other dentist messing around and turning the hole that the molar would have left into LARGER HOLE, that it would be impossible to screw the titanium implant post into, as *these posts require a solid bone base for keeping the implant post from falling out*.

OK..*CHA-CHING!..$1470 so far and still the gap is there.* 

Wait 8 weeks for that area to heal and the bovine bone material to fuse to what was left of my lower jaw bone. 
Go back.*3rd visit*...he installs the post and abutement...$2000...I said SKIP the other $400 anaesthesia
PLEASE! .. i'M a 'bad boy biker' and used to pain (ya sure..it was just my cheapskate-frugality side kicking in) .:cower:..sounds like a country song doesn't it?

Ok..now I'm *$3370 out of pocket* and so far on a post and a temporary cap, so I can now chew with it. 

Go for a *4th visit* to him for final check before he hands me back to the family dentist for a crown fitting. Fortunately this visit is free..something practically unheard of in a dental office. 

*5th visit.*..pre impression taken of implant post with temporary cap in place (no charge ..well so far)

*6th visit*....post impression (of post minus temporary cap) (no charge..at least so far)
Wait about a week or two.*.6 months have gone by now since the tooth root was extracted *

*7th visit * .fitting of gold crown over post and cementing the crown in place...*$1700! (THAT IS WITH a SENIORS DISCOUNT TOO!*)..yea!..I'm finally finished of this dentist chair ordeal!..for now at least. 

*Total cost of ONE IMPLANT; ...$3370 + $1700 = $5070!* :greedy_dollars:

You practically need some shares in a real goldmine or be extremely lucky to win a lottery to have a mouth full of implants
at these prices!

I've just had another extraction done this year and the first estimate was even higher than that.* $6,000 which includes
a lower jaw full scan for the nerve that keeps your jawbone and cheek sensitive..otherwise if the oral surgeon drills through
that NERVE, part of your lower jaw COULD GO NUMB..FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. *
Cost of the nerve location scan $325.

I'm opting for a lower partial instead.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> OK, my mom called Halton Financial Assistance for Dental Treatment and after describing the situation , they doesn't cover anything


Why should you be surprised?..it's somewhere between $4000 tp $6000 PER IMPLANT these days and several trips to the dental chair at that. 



> Actually, this is my biggest concern when we retire... as dental care in Canada is extremely expensive...


It is, and it's getting more and more expensive every year. *I DON'T BELIEVE that there is any insurance plan out there that covers crowns or implants*...these are tremendously expensive!..
and only available to those with independent financial means to get them done.
ie: you pay for them out of your own pocket, then submit the bills for *some rebate on your taxes* from CRA.

In the US the implants are MUCH CHEAPER, I found one website that advertises $565 for an implant..but this doesn't include the extractions or prep work required for the titanium post, nor any anaesthesia, nor the gold crown
that is fitted on the titanium implant post..so it is somewhat misleading as well.

However, if you lived closed to the US border and could afford the time and driving, it could end up about half of what the Canadian dental offices charge here...*even if the extractions and crowns had to be fitted here in Canada.*.

However..there is a CAVEAT EMPTOR involved here...IF you develop any jawbone complications from the oral
surgery in the US, it is hard to go back and get them to fix it for you because of driving distances and
other factors..like appointments etc.
At least when you pay for the implant done by a oral surgeon (registered with the provincial college of dentists)
you can get restitution or even sue them, depending on what the complications can be,

It is NOT JUST A SIMPLE PROCEDURE like screwing a titanium implant into your mandible or upper jaw bone..
complications can still arise several weeks after the procedure.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is ridiculous what dentists are allowed to charge.

Our dentist retired and the new guy immediately raised the prices and won't collect from the insurance. He demands we pay him and wait to be reimbursed.

We finally got fed up with him after the last checkups....when he wanted to knock out all my wife's fillings and replace them....because they were "due" for a change.

The only thing due for a change is us...........to a new dentist.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

carverman said:


> Note that even CRA has a CAP ON MEDICAL/DENTAL EXPENSES; it's $2,152 or 3% of your NET INCOME that they allow you to claim on your tax return for both medical and dental expenses for the taxation year..


Just a point of clarification; the CRA doesn't cap it at that, it reduces your medical expenses by that amount.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

gibor said:


> OK, my mom called Halton Financial Assistance for Dental Treatment and after describing the situation , they doesn't cover anything


You may want to try again...it's been my experience that the government, like banks, often initially say "No", it's like an automated response...then you find out that, in reality, there is a little known program out there...

I'm not sure who you'd call, or where you'd look...but there are a lot of programs out there for seniors, and low income people. Many that most government people aren't even aware of...I'd say keep digging.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Retired Peasant said:


> Just a point of clarification; the CRA doesn't cap it at that, it reduces your medical expenses by that amount.


Thanks for the clarification, I was referring to the T1 General Form from memory because it states: "Enter $2172 or 3% of your net income WHICH EVER IS LESS" which would imply that is all you could claim in spite of having several thousand dollar of medical expenses. 

I have a disability tax credit now, so I get back all my income taxes paid. 

My understanding is that CRFA will not REFUND MORE MONEY THAN THE TAXES YOU HAVE PAID that taxation year for all your personal expenses, but I could be wrong there in my thinking? 
(I do my own taxes btw) 

My gross income is $35,609 in 3013 and net around 32,009 (still paying my ex a court judgement stipend for life of $3600 a
year).

Schedule 1 (Federal taxes): SAYS: enter $2,152 OR 3% OF LINE 236 of your return, WHICH EVER IS LESS
so I enter 3% of my net taxes on line 236...$960, and subtract that from $4358.28 which then leaves a remainder of $3398.01
on line 331, which I then carry over to line 332, then add my other deductions for a *non refundable tax credit of $5255.15*

last year they *deducted $3282 in income taxes *from my 3 pensions (Nortel, CPP and OAS).
I also claimed $472 for the Ontario Happy Homes renovation tax credit for seniors that have disabilities
for a for a *total refund of $3456.00* which I received from CRA.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

My mom is in a similar position (she earns only about 15K/yr) except she needs 6 implants for a cost of 35K. She couldn't get any financial assistance here in BC. She is fortunate that she owned a rental house that she downsized to a condo to come up with the money.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> *It is ridiculous what dentists are allowed to charge.*
> 
> Our dentist retired and the new guy immediately raised the prices and won't collect from the insurance. He demands we pay him and wait to be reimbursed.
> 
> ...


IMO, the dentist association charge what they are allowed to charge, what the insurance companies will bear,
based on their yearly price list from the Ontario (or Canadian) dental association for " regular" dental work.

Implants however, are a separate case and you really need to get estimates from a least a couple
dental surgeon offices (I did). I was shocked by the first estimate I got because of their spread on their fees!

Here is *ONE* ESTIMATE, the breakdown on a DENTAL IMPLANT SOCIETY form for me: 
(ESTIMATE iS FOR SECOND IMPLANT ON left side lower jaw)

*Extractions * (total of 4 teeth-lower jaw.) * $480 to $1400 * 
(spread is priced from simple extraction to complicate procedure; as I had done in my FIRST IMPLANT
(right side lower jaw; $4700)

*Bone augmentation* (they told me they use CADAVER BONE not bovine bone as I had in my first implant..MOOO!! *$1200 to $1800*

*Implant placement*: $2600 Large implant to compensate for a molar and pre molar (or whatever these are called)

*Preliminary impression* for crown: $950

*Bridge crown or prothesis insertion*: $950


*Total amount* of treatment: FOR *ONE IMPLANT*! $ 6180 to $7700 :greedy_dollars:

Note: (*total does not include extra tip for a new Mercedes or BMW for the dental surgeon and tips all around for his staff that assisted him with the implant procedures.:biggrin: *


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> You may want to try again...it's been my experience that the government, like banks, often initially say "No", it's like an automated response...then* you find out that, in reality, there is a little known program out there...*
> 
> I'm not sure who you'd call, or where you'd look...but there are a lot of programs out there for seniors, and low income people. Many that most government people aren't even aware of...I'd say keep digging.


 ... here's a thought - would homeless or welfare people get priority for dental services or single digit low income folks like gibor + mom get priority from the government?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> *Why should you be surprised?..**it's somewhere between $4000 tp $6000 PER IMPLANT these days and several trips to the dental chair at that. *
> 
> ...


 ... + 1. Big ouch! your dental implant(s) experience sound brutal :boxing: (but thanks for sharing).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... here's a thought - would homeless or welfare people get priority for dental services or single digit low income folks like gibor + mom get priority from the government?


Not sure what you mean by "homeless"? 
If you mean welfare cases or social assistance cases such as ODSP (Ontario Disability Support Program), 
they get only BASIC DENTAL care included in their benefits...but they have to get estimates and submit them for approval and* before any treatment can commence. *.

They also can "nickel and dime" you by advising your.."that is all we are prepared to pay!"

This I know first hand or is it second hand?..from a guy on ODSP, that lived with me for 6 months over the winter, while waiting for his rent-to-income Ottawa social assistance housing. 
He could be considered "homeless" , as he couldn't afford market rent after ODSP cut back on his monthly allowance and deducted the overpayments to him from each payment...nickel and diming here...so he had no choice but stay with me. 

According to him, cleaning and fillings..nothing else and if it is major fillings he would have to "warn" ODSP ahead by submitting estimates..unless..the service was offered for free..which is seldom the case.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Homeless=out on the street or in shelters?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... + 1. Big ouch! your dental implant(s) experience sound brutal :boxing: (but thanks for sharing).


Yes, it was BRUTAL!!! in more ways than one. To get a mouthful of implants these days you either need an inheritance, or be successful on the markets/investments ...or win the lottery.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Homeless=out on the street or in shelters?


Somehow I doubt it..they have to be registered with Welfare or OSDP or some other social assistance program to qualify for "free" (paid by taxpayers) dental care.
Probably a lot of them out there with rotted teeth.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Too bad, can't DIY ... :greedy_dollars: (j/k)


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... here's a thought - would homeless or welfare people get priority for dental services or single digit low income folks like gibor + mom get priority from the government?


Not sure what you mean by low income Beav? There probably is some assistance for seniors on welfare or very low income in each individual community, but she would have to register with for that dental assistance. I doubt very much if there is any "free" support for IMPLANTS as I just explained from my experience.

Even if you have senior's insurance with ManuLife etc, they *will not *pay for implants or crowns and
in some cases not even root canals. 
These insurance schemes are there to make some money for the insurance companies first. Usually, In the first
two years, you are *limited to how much coverage they will pay*..and in most cases..it's only amounts to 60 to 80% of your premium.

So if your seniors dental insurance is say $120 a month x 12 = $1440 a year in premiums..you only get about $864 to $1153 in coverage and you *HAVE TO PAY YOUR DENTIST at time of treatment,* then have them send in the dental claim form for the insurance company to determine how much they will pay for your claim..
...if anything.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Re the 'low income', I was referencing Just A Guy's post. As per my original post, I think the OP can easily help finance his mother's dental work.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Not sure about the Halton region. But in Toronto there are City/gov't run clinics that will treat seniors for basic treatment. Apparently the wait list is about 2 years for a cleaning. They probably do simple extractions. I guarantee they do not do implants.

The different regions offer different levels of services based on the gov't funding they receive.

Generally speaking the prices fall in the following range:

Carverman:
"Extractions (total of 4 teeth-lower jaw.) $480 to $1400 (for 4 teeth sounds about right)

Bone augmentation $1200 to $1800 (IMO it should be closer to $1200, $400 per tooth is the norm, but they should give you a discount if they are doing 4 teeth, in some instances where bone loss has occured this is necessary, it is like ensuring the foundation is going to be solid before building your home)

Implant placement: $2600 Large implant to compensate for a molar and pre molar (sounds about right per tooth)

Preliminary impression for crown: $950 (normally there is no charge for this, just for the crown, however there is an appointment for this impression, perhaps there was a misunderstanding)

Bridge crown or prothesis insertion: $950 (give or take sounds about right)

Total amount of treatment: FOR ONE IMPLANT! $ 6180 to $7700 (The range for the implant is normally around $3500, plus any additional cost as mentioned above for bone placement, the cost for the extraction is for the extraction which is a separate procedure)"

Most dentists follow the provincial fee guide recommendations, but they are able to charge whatever fee they like.

My advise for the OP, if you are greatly concerned re finances, perhaps the dentist can help you with the extraction, and a denturist can help your mother replace the missing tooth at a reasonable cost. Agreed an implant is a better solution, however it does come at an expense.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

q


Cal said:


> Carverman:
> "Extractions (total of 4 teeth-lower jaw.) $480 to $1400 (for 4 teeth sounds about right)


I got it done at another dental establishment in Ottawa where there is a well experienced dental surgeon, he practised in Texas before coming to Canada, and also spent 2 years as an intern? at Sick Kids doing facial maxillary reconstruction surgeon, 
for $294 both teeth on one side, and $457 for both on the other side (I think) ...definitely a bit cheaper than "up to $1400, which was the top of the quote for the first dental surgeon.


> Bone augmentation $1200 to $1800 (IMO it should be closer to $1200, $400 per tooth is the norm, but they should give you a discount if they are doing 4 teeth, in some instances where bone loss has occurred this is necessary, it is like ensuring the foundation is going to be solid before building your home)


I got it done for $500 for the first implant with a different dental surgeon...so their prices do vary, it seems.



> Implant placement: $2600 Large implant to compensate for a molar and pre molar (sounds about right per tooth)


Well, maybe, not sure if he was quoting two posts here. My first one was a single post and cost me $2000.



> Preliminary impression for crown: $950 (normally there is no charge for this, just for the crown, however there is an appointment for this impression, perhaps there was a misunderstanding)


No; there wasn't. He wanted 50% UP FRONT, so he could pay the dental labs for the crown , I guess.


> Bridge crown or prothesis insertion: $950 (give or take sounds about right)


yes, but his actual/ REAL ESTIMATE (CHARGE) WAS: $950 + $950 or *$1900 for that crown (maybe it was a double crown?*) to replace the two teeth... that he *was* going to extract for me..
but of course, I decided his prices were way TOO High for me on a retired pension budget. 



> Total amount of treatment: FOR ONE IMPLANT! $ 6180 to $7700 (The range for the implant is normally around $3500, plus any additional cost as mentioned above for bone placement, the cost for the extraction is for the extraction which is a separate procedure)"


That cost include the removal of 4 teeth..which is still a RIPOFF as far as I'm concerned....are you a dentist by any chance?



> *Most dentists follow the provincial fee guide recommendations, but they are able to charge whatever fee they like.*


That seems to be the case, I guess like lawyers, its a licence to "print money". :biggrin:


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## Ostracized (Feb 7, 2014)

I'm a dentist.

Why does mom need an implant to replace this tooth? Yes, implants are great, but a flipper partial denture will only cost ~$600 tops. Besides, she's going to have to wear the flipper anyway for 4+ months while the implant integrates into the bone.

FWIW, my office charges $3300 for an implant all in (not including extractions or temporary dentures).


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

A friend of ours used a dental clinic at a local university (UBC) to get bracs for their son- not sure whether these kinds of clinics may be of interest - there is one at U ot T.
http://www.dentistry.utoronto.ca/patient-clinics


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ostracized said:


> I'm a dentist.
> 
> Why does mom need an implant to replace this tooth? Yes, implants are great, but a flipper partial denture will only cost ~$600 tops. Besides, she's going to have to wear the flipper anyway for 4+ months while the implant integrates into the bone.


Could you explain "flipper"? My current dental surgeon is suggesting something like that for option 2. I haven't got a
quote from him yet, but he is also indicating that it is an expensive option to go for two teeth. After the shocker from
the first dental surgeon, I probably will go that route because, if the next one goes and the next one goes...it could
cost me a small fortune at even 3300 per implant.

My only implant cost me $2000 + 1700 for the crown = 3700. I think the family dentisty office charged at least $400 more
than she should have (and this is with what her office claimed was a "seniors discount"..of 20%=($340?)
off the 1700 crown..that would have put the crown at... a retail cost of over $2000! 



> FWIW, my office charges $3300 for an implant all in (not including extractions or temporary dentures).


A bit more reasonable, but considering that you can get an implant advertised online for as little as $565 in the US..

here is an extraction (pardon the pun) from a online discussion by cosmetic dentists in the US:


> Implants can vary greatly in cost from $1500 to $3000 each. The implant itself is only part of the cost. You still need something on top of the implant called an abutment. These can be stock or custom and metal or porcelain. These can vary from $500 to $1500. You also may need a bone graft around the implant which can be $300 to $1200. Then you will still need a crown on top of it.


and




> The price of dental implants can vary based on the brand of the dental implant and the tooth location. Typically the average cost of a dental implant is approximately $2,000. Remember, you also need to factor in the cost of the implant crown.


I guess to get the extra cost "grillz" on the front teeth, as some Hollywood stars have..that would cost a bit more?:biggrin:



> Pop culture expert mentioins: 'Custom-fit grills are very expensive, which is one of the reasons they've become such a big celebrity trend.'
> This certainly seems to be the case for Lil’ Wayne, whose *favorite diamond encrusted grill is reportedly worth a whopping $100,000.*
> However, that the 'mouth bling tends to look like a row of rotten teeth in photos and that's never a good look!'


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

More on implant costs in the US.
1. lets say I have two teeth extracted side by side. One was a former root canal tooth that had a massive filling and eventually
has gone brittle and the filling fell out. The other one next to it was just bad and need to come out..after all these teeth have
been with me for 67 years (permanent teeth come in after 1 year of age)..so I am a good candidate for implant dentists at my age,
as a lot of seniors in my age group would be.

Do I need separate implants at a cost of $3300 each + the crowns at another $1200-1500 each) for a cost of $5700 to 6300 each?
here what a dental implant cost guide says (US of course)

One reader comments:


> Also don’t forget for every two crowns, you only need one implant, this is a huge savings. Do not let a dentist tell you that you need an implant for every tooth (crown), NOT TRUE.



also,if you can travel to other countries, the cost of the implants can be much less of a dent on your pocket book..

An other reader comments:


> In Jan 2014 I got *6 lower molar implants in Puerto Vallarta Mexico*. Didn’t enjoy it but pain was less than expected. Swelling more than expected but I ‘d had a back molar extracted 2 days prior. Used prescribed pills for 3 or 4 days. Bleeding more than expected. Soft food for a week. *Cost under $5,000 Canadian.* *6 crowns will cost about the same after 6 months*. My Implants are a universal brand, commonly used in Can & US so I could get crowns anywhere.


Ok, so lets see $5000 divided by 6 implants = average cost of $850 cdn per implant
Plus cost of crowns for these 
Lets say average cost of $1000, if you can find a dentist in Canada that will install 6 crowns at once for $6000 

That works out to $11,000 for 6 teeth...a little more reasonable..but still a BIG DENT in your wallet.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> More on implant costs in the US. ...
> 
> That works out to $11,000 for 6 teeth...a little more reasonable..but still a BIG* DENT *in your wallet.


 .. that's a partial pun, if not an unintended one, right? 

Hopefully, with the advancement in dentistry and when my time comes for this treatment, I don't have to sell my house. Fingers crossed.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> .. that's a partial pun, if not an unintended one, right?
> 
> Hopefully, with the advancement in dentistry and when my time comes for this treatment, I don't have to sell my house. Fingers crossed.


Dental implants are a licence to print money by the dental surgeons that drill a hole in your jawbone and screw in the threaded titanium implant. Takes less than 1 hr usually;..and cha-cing! $1500 to 2000 depending which one you choose.. and the dentists that do the rest of the mundane, but still expensive work profit likewise with very expensive custom made gold crowns to cement over the titanium posts. 


One is quite a dent in your wallet..6 or more..well lets say you need indepen*DENT* means to supplement these
Deca*DENT *treatments that result in resplen*DENT* set of choppers, but certainly not if you are a senior resi*DENT* when you become not so conf*iDENT* due to the high cost and become despon*DENT *when you hear that it is evi*DENT* that there will be a huge DENT in your purse because there is no forthcoming pay*MENT *from a *DENT*AL plan and you have to rethink *DENT*ures.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

ROFL!!! ...there're 10 DENTS in that 1 paragraph alone ... (not counting payMENT).... you're hilarious evem after being so dented.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just got thinking about these implants..
years ago, there was no such thing as dental implants for the average Joe or Jill out there.

You had to put up with dentures, or do without, and that wasn't always the best solution..but a couple of hundred years ago, there wern't that many dentists around to do all kinds of modern technological procedures...you had to use your skills and what was available materials at hand.

George Washington, it is rumoured, CARVED his own set of false teeth out of wood..not sure what wood he used, but more than likely a hard hickory or hard maple would do nicely,

Now I am a carver, and have the carving tools to make myself a nice molar set of teeth, its just the implant post, but I could substitute with a stainless steel flat head #6 screw from Lee Valley Tools. 

Drill a hole in my gum and in the middle of the wooden tooth and screw it in looking in the mirror, and then screw it in using a green Robertson #2 screwdriver. ..a CANADIAN INVENTION..not those terrible Phillips screws that the Americans love. 

Tighten it up real good..and voila..Carver..you have just done a DIY implant! Total cost 10c for the screw + some carving effort.:biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Now if that's not called self-torture, then I don't know what it is.... and no anesthesia ... :eek2: ... amazing. So you can now cut your own hair with your eyes-closed too, right? :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Now if that's not called self-torture, then I don't know what it is.... and no anesthesia ... :eek2: ... amazing. So you can now *cut your own hair with your eyes-closed* too, right? :biggrin:


How did you ever guess Beav..yes, I do cut it using a shaving mirror from time to time..especially in the winter months.

Last week while I was waiting for the local freezing to take effect on the two extractions, I discussed some advances in dental procedures in the last 20-30 years..especially the popularity of implants over dentures.

He laughed and told me that "painless dentistry" is where it's at today...
I laughed and told him.".yes...but the pain starts after the painless dentistry is completed!"

Oh he said.."don't worry, I'll write you a prescription for some Tylenol #3" (narcotic codeine)......

I laughed .."no Doc..it's that pain that I'm feeling now in my wallet!"


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> ... I laughed .."no Doc..it's that pain that I'm feeling now in my wallet!"


... and so how did he respond? 

Actually, if you're able to have the implants and that they would be permanently workable (ie. like your own teeth), why settle for dentures? Can't exactly take the $$$ with you.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... and so how did he respond?


He laughed and said as he leaves me in a state of numbness.."Wish we could help you there!"


> Actually, if you're able to have the implants and that they would be permanently workable (ie. like your own teeth), why settle for dentures? Can't exactly take the $$$ with you.


Yes, give me the winning number in the next 649 lottery and I will agree..right now it boils down to dollars..and my sense of FRUGALITY, of course.

I may still go for the implants...but I need two teeth replaced on that side..a double crown with one titanium post 
will do nicely thank you...

as they say.." Some things are priceless..for everything else...there is MasterCard!":biggrin:


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Ostracized said:


> I'm a dentist.
> 
> Why does mom need an implant to replace this tooth? Yes, implants are great, but a flipper partial denture will only cost ~$600 tops. Besides, she's going to have to wear the flipper anyway for 4+ months while the implant integrates into the bone.
> 
> FWIW, my office charges $3300 for an implant all in (not including extractions or temporary dentures).


I think my mom wanted to do removable "plate", probaly it's the same what you mean by " flipper partial denture " ? Even though the dentist recommended implant, my mom said that he's afraid to go for impant because she's generally has problem with bones - Osteoporosis.... I sent you to my denstist for consultation, as he quoted $1,500 for Plate or $2,000 for extract (extraction is not included).... I have no idea in dentistry...what is better , what worst.... so cannot really recommend her anything..... 
My mom also called some other dentist in order to get quote and they wanted to charge her $100-200 only for consultation! (my dentist gave her free consultation). 
imho, government should really do something about it.... dentists are usin insurance companies policies for their advantage and charging maximum on everything they can charge....

_Actually, if you're able to have the implants and that they would be permanently workable (ie. like your own teeth), why settle for dentures?_ I've heard from some sources , include this threat, that is not always good for seniors


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> He laughed and said as *he leaves me in a state of numbness*.."Wish we could help you there!"
> 
> Yes, give me the winning number in the next 649 lottery and I will agree..right now it boils down to dollars..and my sense of FRUGALITY, of course.
> 
> ...


 ... seems like most dentists do that - numb you first and then ask you the questions so you can respond "mmm, hmmm, mmm" meaning "yes, you agree" instead of "[email protected]#[email protected]!"

Unfortunately, I don't have the canny predictive ability of some of the financial gurus on board here so can't help with the winning lottery number selection. Hey, the MC is a thought - isn't the Platinum one on its way, btw :biggrin: 

Okay, what I was trying to get with my suggestion with getting the implants is improving the quality of life. My father lost almost all of his teeth when he was in his early 40s (due to tremendous stress from a business belly-up) and back then, there was no such thing as implants so he had to settle for dentures (removable). And boy did those dentures sucked. He couldn't eat properly with them and consequently had digestive issues lifelong. Perhaps the dentures now a day would work better.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

gibor said:


> I think my mom wanted to do removable "plate", probaly it's the same what you mean by " flipper partial denture " ? ...
> 
> _Actually, if you're able to have the implants and that they would be permanently workable (ie. like your own teeth), why settle for dentures?_ I've heard from some sources ,* include this threat, that is not always good for seniors*


 ... not sure what you mean by a "threat" here. 

Surely, you must have family or friends that can make recommendations of a good, if not excellent, dentist for seniors and he/she can suggest the best course of treatment - dentures or implants for your mom. Please keep in mind that your original post specifically asked about "implants".


> My mom is senior with very low single digit income.... Her tooth got broken and *she needs implant that cost several thousand $$$... I was wondering if *


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i have to have my top rear large molar removed and am looking at a bridge or an implant ... $3-5K
i was thinking of a bridge but they tell me an implant is more conservative if also more expensive
but, buying good teeth is just about the best money you can spend
so i am lucky i have the money to spend


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... not sure what you mean by a "threat" here.
> 
> Surely, you must have family or friends that can make recommendations of a good, if not excellent, dentist for seniors and he/she can suggest the best course of treatment - dentures or implants for your mom. Please keep in mind that your original post specifically asked about "implants".


Sorry. misspelled ...I meant "thread" 
I asked about implants, just because I didn't know that other options exist.... Did research on the Web about implants fro seniors with osteoporosis ...as expected - no straight answer...some tell it's no so good, some tell it's fine....


_so he had to settle for dentures (removable). _ maybe one-two teeth - not so bad as almost all?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Okay, got the right word, now makes sense. But the comment was made for Carverman, not seniors in general. In fact, I have stated right at the beginning that seniors should be seeking help from a professional instead of using training schools. And I have emphasized this point in my post above to see the course of treatment for your mom. It's unfortunate that dental treatment is costly in this country - but this is shared by every resident here in Canada. 

As for my dad, not one or two teeth but a mouthful as he had upper and lower dentures (so seemed to be almost all). And unfortunately, family genes gave him way less than the average number of teeth (30?) to begin with.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... seems like most dentists do that - numb you first and then ask you the questions so you can respond "mmm, hmmm, mmm" meaning "yes, you agree" instead of "[email protected]#[email protected]!"


Yes been there many times in the last few years, too funny! :highly_amused:
I remember seeing a Colgate toothpaste commercial a few years ago that used that situation and it was quite funny to see
a guy in a dentist chair with the dentist shoving the inspection mirror (they are very good at this btw) in the guy's mouth
and then asking him a question. "Nice teeth there,what are you using to keep them so white?" 
The patient mumbles something incomprehensible "col,mgmmatearharh".? The dentist is puzzled. However, another patient
in the adjoining dental chair (they have these cubicles with adjoining chairs where they go back and forth working on patients to make their time more efficient) mumbles..."col,mgmmatearharh". The dentist then seems to understand and repeats in a puzzled look answer; "Colgate?"..both patients nod and mumble...'yemmmss..colmmbbmgate!" 



> Unfortunately, I don't have the canny predictive ability of some of the financial gurus on board here so can't help with the winning lottery number selection. Hey, the MC is a thought - isn't the Platinum one on its way, btw :biggrin:


Yes...got a letter from Capital One today..card is in the mail...($15K charge limit), but there is ONE problem with that, Beav,..I still got to pay it back at the end of each month! 

You see unlike most people that run their CC up to the max and just make the interest payment each month,
I try to avoid to carry a balance...don't like paying that 19.8% interest penalty each month, (ust my frugal nature, I prefer to keep that interest payment in my bank acct rather that give it to the fat and greedy banks, so I always pay it off. 



> Okay, what I was trying to get with my suggestion with getting the implants is improving the quality of life. My father lost almost all of his teeth when he was in his early 40s (due to tremendous stress from a business belly-up) and back then, there was no such thing as implants so he had to settle for dentures (removable). And boy did those dentures sucked. He couldn't eat properly with them and consequently had digestive issues lifelong. Perhaps the dentures now a day would work better.


You are probably talking about those cheap(er) plastic gum coloured dentures back then..yes they sucked, because if you lost ALL your teeth on the upper and lower..you got a set that look like those funny clacking teeth that you wind up, sold at some "joke" stores..do those even still exist today?..they used to!..Whoopie cushions and stuff like that.
I guess society is getting too serious these days?

Anyway, with those in order to have them stay in place, you have to use this white pasty glue to glue them to your gums..(very hard to remove to clean the food that gets under them),or you can't eat corn on the cob or bite down on an apple.
They were certainly a challenge, because without the glue, they could fall out of 'grandpa's" mouth or clack while talking..or Grandpa could roll them out of his mouth and scare the grand kids.."eeeuuww!" :highly_amused:

and of course.. the consequence of having dentures is ... you have to put up with this every night!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fatcat said:


> i have to have my top rear large molar removed and am looking at a bridge or an implant ... $3-5K
> i* was thinking of a bridge but they tell me an implant is more conservative if also more expensive*
> but, buying good teeth is just about the best money you can spend
> so i am lucky i have the money to spend


I had a bridge once..it lasted a few years, until one of the teeth that it was anchored from,
broke or got infected and had to be removed.

A bridge is a compromise. In most cases a bit less expensive than one implant,
BUT they have to grind away so much of the teeth (for the metal clasps) that the bridge is cemented to, 
that* it compromises those teeth *, and you could have some trouble with those teeth in the future.

Even if ONE of the anchor teeth for the bridge needs to be extracted , due to a infected nerve root, that's it. 
You definitely will need an EXPENSIVE mouth RETROFIT with a implant to replace the anchor tooth to re-cement
the partial, which will break at that point (or need to be removed by the dentist to extract the bad tooth)
and that will cost you $$,$$$ !

Anybody that has sat in a dental chair ENDURING an EXPENSIVE root canal,
can vouch that it may be better to spend the money up front on an implant, and be done with it.
L*eave those sound teeth alone*. 
Because, once the dentists start to shape the anchor teeth for a bridge, wearing away the tooth enamel to cement
the bridge clasps.*.its only a matter of time..until you MAY have trouble with those teeth as well.*

Then you have wasted *hundreds of dollars* on the bridge and have to deal with the new reality..
a partial or a heck of a lot of expense at that point, for the implants to replace the bridge, 
once one of the anchor teeth cannot be saved by any other means. Thjs WILL happen in later years.
Nothing in dental work is permanent...but I'm not sure about implants...since they are fairly new
in terms of new technology.

Infected tooth roots (abcess) introduce bacteria that gets into the joints of your body..not to mention the severe pain in your mouth.

There is an other option though, a metal partial that clicks down on two or more titanium implant posts that they install in your mouth and make a good fitting partial that will last for years.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> Sorry. misspelled ...I meant "thread"
> I asked about implants, just because I didn't know that other options exist.... Did research on the Web about implants fro seniors with osteoporosis ...as expected - no straight answer...some tell it's no so good, some tell it's fine....
> osteporosis can mean future implant problems..but not necessarily and that is why it's hard to get a straight answer.


Most seniors (me included) take daily calcium tab supplements once you get into your sixties..its a fact of life that our bones get brittle, just like teeth at that age and can break. A lot of seniors break hips or have hip joint surgery for that very reason.onset of osteoporis..especially post menopausal women.
.another unpleasant side effect of old age. :surprise:

Here is a link to: Does Osteoporosis Affect the Survival Rate of Dental Implants?
https://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2007orleans/techprogram/abstract_90445.htm

Inside the mouth, as we age, the gums recede and we lose some jaw bone density due to the effects of osteoporosis, but IF there is no periodontal disease, probably she could be a good candidate for implants. 

Of course if she has any other conditions, such as a heart, she may need to consult a medical doctor for an opinion that she will be ok with the anaesthesia that they have to put her under for the implant.

I decided not to got with the expensive anaesthesia for me, because it was another $400 just for that, 
and my frugal side kicked in and told me I can stand it..even though the dental surgeon warned me that
once he got started, I would have to deal with any pain that the freezing couldn't prevent
I was concious throughout but felt the drill vibration into my jawbone, then him screwing in the implant.

Also, depending on how much bone loss your mother has, if any, in the vicinity of the the implant, the dental surgeon may recommend to do a bone (Bovine) augmentation first, and let that heal and fuse for a few months to her existing jaw bone to strengthen the implant post. This of course is an extra charge..for my implant it was $500.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Dentist said that impant should be fine with my mom and looks like convinced her to do implant....  He quaoted $2,500 for everything include extraction... looks like reasonable price, isn't it?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

gibor said:


> Dentist said that impant should be fine with my mom and looks like convinced her to do implant....  He quaoted $2,500 for everything include extraction... looks like reasonable price, isn't it?


very, based on what i'm hearing


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> ... I remember seeing a Colgate toothpaste commercial a few years ago that used that situation and it was quite funny to see
> a guy in a dentist chair with the dentist shoving the inspection mirror (they are very good at this btw) in the guy's mouth
> and then asking him a question. "Nice teeth there,what are you using to keep them so white?"
> The patient mumbles something incomprehensible "col,mgmmatearharh".? ...
> ...


 ... yes, I recall seeing that funny (and smart) commercial too. :witless:

Another thought - instead of paying by cc, how about proposing a monthly payment plan with your dentist, say 3 to 6 months? Interest free of course. Would he/she consider it for special circumstances, say? My old one did when I was unemployed (and until I fired him - actually not his fault but his staff but he's the boss/responsible) but not so sure of the new one (work worth the weight of gold though).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> Dentist said that impant should be fine with my mom and looks like convinced her to do implant....  He quoted $2,500 for everything include extraction... looks like reasonable price, isn't it?


Yes, it is. Extractions run from about $150 for a uncomplicated one (tooth is yanked out in one piece) and a $200 + for a complicated one, where the roots break apart,
(some molars have up to 4 individual roots), and he has to go "digging" for each separate root...a lot more time involved, so it costs more. 
The implants with local freezing (no monitored anithetic) can cost $1500 +
The gold crown that is cemented onto the titanium implant post can range anywhere from $950 and up.

She will be much happier with the implant once it's done, and also be able to claim it on her medical expenses 
when her taxes are done for 2014.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> .
> 
> Another thought - instead of paying by cc, how about proposing a monthly payment plan with your dentist, say 3 to 6 months? Interest free of course. Would he/she consider it for special circumstances, say? My old one did when I was unemployed (and until I fired him - actually not his fault but his staff but he's the boss/responsible) but not so sure of the new one (work worth the weight of gold though).


Most dentists don't want to be bothered with that. I guess it's too hard to collect if the patient decides not to pay for whatever reason or prefers to skip one of the payments. I've never heard of any dentist (at least in Ontario) that offers an interest free payment plan...would be nice though!

Usually, *they want their money up front* and they fill out a form that you can send to your insurance company (if you happen to be insured..and I'm not). 

Looked into the ManuLife dental plan..they *don't cover root canals, crowns, or implants* and only cover up to 50% for dentures after your yearly deductible is subtracted first from their payment..

...so for me, other than an extraction they would pick up, or a filling/cleaning..
they dont cover much else and only at 80% of what the dental charge is..

So..if I have to pay $112+ a month premiums AND the 20% of a extraction cost, (say $200 for a round number), they would only pay me $160 for that extraction..and *that is only to what they set as a yearly maximum.*.which will always be less than what you pay them.

ie: $112 x 12 months = $1344 in premiums (at my age :68) They won't cover anything beyond their yearly MAXIMUM PAYOUT..
lets say they set that at $1100 in the first year.
So, IF I have 2 extractions in a year (say $450), and they pay me 80% of that..$360..I still have to pay $90 out of pocket + the remaining premiums of $984....

Just doesn't make any economic sense to me...might as well pay the whole shot and save myself $1344 in premiums!


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I have used the following dentist and was pleased at the price. 

Regent Park Community Health Centre
416-364-7019
465 Dundas St E
Mon, Wed 10 am-5 pm
Tues 12-7 pm, Thurs 9:30 am-7 pm
Fri 10:30 am-4 pm
• Examinations, x-rays, fillings and dentures
• Dental and social assistance plans accepted


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Most dentists don't want to be bothered with that. I guess it's too hard to collect if the patient decides not to pay for whatever reason or prefers to skip one of the payments. I've never heard of any dentist (at least in Ontario) that offers an interest free payment plan...would be nice though! ...
> 
> *Just doesn't make any economic sense to me...might as well pay the whole shot and save myself $1344 in premiums*!


 ... when I was unemployed for a period of time in the past, and needed dental work done (around $1,000?), I managed to negotiate a 3 months payment plan (with a minimum fee - maybe that was the interest, can't recall as it has been years ago). Mind you all my dental care/work was done by him so there has been some loyalty established. Not sure if it would hurt to ask yours.

Re the insurance - I agree, forget it - no mileage there. Guess you have to bite the $ bullet so to speak , no pun intended here. :redface-new:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... when I was unemployed for a period of time in the past, and needed dental work done (around $1,000?), I managed to negotiate a 3 months payment plan (with a minimum fee - maybe that was the interest, can't recall as it has been years ago). Mind you all my dental care/work was done by him so there has been some loyalty established. Not sure if it would hurt to ask yours.


Beav, kindly advice and I appreciate it, but I will NOT be asking my dental implant surgeon to "carry me for 3 or 4 months at zero interest". Those times have changed.

I'm sure he would say to me" If all my patients asked me to defer my fees for a few months, I would be out of business."

Each dentist operates his office as a business. he or she has staff to pay, and other payments such as rent, electricity, payments on dental equipment, supplies, anaesthesia, and a host of other things.

( Unlike purchases made on Home-Depot's card, that can be "interest free" for 6 months (at 29.9% annual interest) 
if you miss the "drop-dead-date', *you pay the full interest on that purchase as well) *.

Most dental offices cannot afford to carry their patients for 6 months, never mind finding the time or hiring somebody to chase after them to collect delinquent payments..and there would more than likely be quite a few of these. 

In my implant brochure (provided by my first estimate dental implant surgeon) they give you full colour pictures of treatment options for the lower and upper jaw. However, no mention of any payment plans available for these treatments. In my case, his estimate for a double sized implant (to replace two molars) was ranging from $6180 to $7700..which is very significant for someone on a small monthly pension.
For me it would be equivalent to 4 months of my pension payments!

http://www.wikihow.com/Afford-Dental-Implants

However, due to the high dental charges on some procedures, there now seems to be some specific dental finance companies that you can apply for , and in most cases , get approval ahead of time, once you supply them with your financial details, of course, like gross monthly income/net monthly income, etc.

Even if they approve you for financing, their rates are probably much higher than getting a LOC loan (at 5.25% or
less with a secured LOC) up to $20K, to stretch out that whopping dental bill over several months, or even years. 

The other thing is, that your dental office has to be registered with them to be paid by dentalcard. They may also take a percentage of the full payment at his end, so perhaps some dentists prefer not to deal with them?
https://www.dentalcard.ca/apply-now.php


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Okay, got it. Don't want your dentist to be out of business ... you still need to return visits to keep smiling. :biggrin:



> .... there now seems to be some specific dental finance companies that you can apply for ...


 ... this is a first I heard of, interesting.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Okay, got it. Don't want your dentist to be out of business ... you still need to return visits to keep smiling. :biggrin:
> 
> ... this is a first I heard of, interesting.


They don't publish their interest rates, I guess you would get those upon approval and receiving the dentalcard, but like most finance companies operating in Canada..the interest rates will be somewhere between 8.9% and 29.9% which is the maximum Credit Card companies can charge. 

an example from CRA:


> Amy has an outstanding balance of $2,000.00 on a credit card with an 18% interest rate. Her minimum payment is $10.00 or 2% of the balance, whichever is greater. Amy’s minimum payment would initially be $40.00 (2% of $2,000).
> 
> *If Amy makes only the minimum monthly payment of $40.00 every month, it would take her 30 years and 10 months to pay off her balance in full AND she would end up paying $4,931.11 in interest.*
> 
> If Amy were to increase her monthly payment to $100.00, she would take only two years to pay off the balance in full and she would pay $395.65 in interest.


here is a story from the NY Times, that makes you want to* rethink before applying* to finance companies
for expensive dental work:


> Ms. Gannon, 78, was staggered. She said she could not afford it. And her insurance would pay only a small portion. But she was barely out of the chair, her mouth still sore, when her dentist’s office held out a solution: a special line of credit to help cover her bill. Before she knew it, Ms. Gannon recalled, the office manager was taking down her financial details.





> But what seemed like the perfect answer — seemed, in fact, like just what the doctor ordered — has turned into a quagmire. Her new loan ensured that the dentist, Dr. Dan A. Knellinger, would be paid in full upfront. But for Ms. Gannon,* the price was steep: an annual interest rate of about 23 percent, with a 33 percent penalty rate kicking in if she missed a payment.*
> 
> She said that Dr. Knellinger’s office subsequently suggested another form of financing, a medical credit card, to pay for more work. Now, her minimum monthly dental bill, roughly $214 all told, is eating up a third of her Social Security check. If she is late, she faces a penalty of about $50.
> 
> “I am worried that I will be paying for this until I die,” says Ms. Gannon.


Read more..(if interested) 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/14/b...-credit-from-doctors.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

No I am not a dentist. But I do have a working knowledge of dentistry.

I would be surprised if most offices would not provide some sort of interest free payment plan. I mean, if you were to put 30-50% down, and leave a visa on file to be charged over the next 3 months, that isn't unreasonable.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think there is something wrong with my dentist.

I called him up and said I wanted to come in for a visit. 

He asked me what the problem was.......and I told him my teeth had all turned bright yellow.

He told me to wear a brown tie.............

Do you think I should look for another dentist ?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> I think there is something wrong with my dentist.
> 
> I called him up and said I wanted to come in for a visit.
> 
> ...



No, the other way around. The dentist should looking at you for a teeth whitening job, and maybe stop
drinking all that coffee and smoking those Havanas? 
However, if yiour teeth are at this stage...you might consider implants.


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