# How freakin bad is Air Canada?



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

I hope these passengers get significant compensation. This is utter B.S.!

*Winnipeg-bound passengers given mats, left to sleep on floor at Toronto Pearson airport*

After several flight delays, passengers flying out of Toronto's Pearson airport were given mats and left to sleep on the floor when their flights to Winnipeg were eventually cancelled — and many said the airline didn't offer proper accommodations at all.

Fatima Sherefa, 17, was flying back from a trip to Ann Arbor, Mich. She was told her 3 p.m. connecting flight in Toronto was delayed. 

"We're standing around the agents asking, you know, what's happening," she said. "They say the flight's been rescheduled, like … 'Stay calm, you're going to board the plane.'" 

Sherefa said she was getting anxious as the night went on and she wondered how she was going to explain the delay to her parents — who said they stayed awake all night waiting for news on when she would be arriving back home.

"I wish more support had been provided to ease concerns that I, especially, would have had as a minor. But that didn't happen either."



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/toronto-pearson-airport-winnipeg-passengers-1.6544249


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ It's only going to get worst.

I read just this morning, A/C is reclassifying their flights cancellation/rescheduling as "no compensation" due to safety reasons caused by staffing shortages. At least for a passenger flying from Yellowknife to Calgary. Ie. any way to not compensate for "their own" rules/doings/mistakes.

I think if enough people can desist air travel for now, it can send a message to (if not choke off) the airline industry. Not sure about a choice for business travellers though ... right now, too many demands on and not enough resources from the industry to "service" properly. Far too many horror stories such as these.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

My last two flights were AC and, in both cases, I was surprised at how good they were. I avoided AC for 15 years but now I think they are as good as WestJet (which is just OK).


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Is anybody flying out of Vancouver (YVR) or Calgary (YYC)? It doesn't seem to have any bad press. I understand Pearson in the main hub for travel out of Canada but am curious to hear from those on the left coast. I am considering going west to avoid Pearson even though my final destination is further East. I am willing to add a guaranteed couple of hours to my air time if it reduces the probability of experiencing the sh&t show going on in Toronto. I understand the media likes to jump on sensationalistic stories but compensation should have been given to these customers.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

londoncalling said:


> but compensation should have been giving to these customers.


Hotel lodgings and compensation. What Air Canada's board of directors should have to do the next time they convene a meeting is sleep in a hallway on yoga mats issued by the airline -- no hotel beds for their spoiled and entitled asses. See how they like that treatment.


----------



## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

londoncalling said:


> Is anybody flying out of Vancouver (YVR) or Calgary (YYC)? It doesn't seem to have any bad press. I understand Pearson in the main hub for travel out of Canada but am curious to hear from those on the left coast. I am considering going west to avoid Pearson even though my final destination is further East. I am willing to add a guaranteed couple of hours to my air time if it reduces the probability of experiencing the sh&t show going on in Toronto. I understand the media likes to jump on sensationalistic stories but compensation should have been given to these customers.


Vancouver has been, in my experience, no where near as chaotic as YYZ. That said, if you are looking at connecting somewhere - my rule 1 is to only book direct flights. This is particularly important at the moment when the probability of missed or delayed flight is so much higher. End to end probability is multiplicative.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Hotel lodgings and compensation. What Air Canada's board of directors should have to do the next time they convene a meeting is sleep in a hallway on yoga mats issued by the airline -- no hotel beds for their spoiled and entitled asses. See how they like that treatment.


 ... that will be the day. What???? No room service either!!!! WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

There is a seemingly large element of society that feels if they miss a connector they deserve a million dollars in small unmarked bills as well as hotel and limousine service.

I've slept in airports and it didn't kill me. A few years ago, we had a 7 hour layover after a very long connector flight. We were tired so we found some lounge chairs and took turns sleeping. There wasn't sufficient time to leave the secured area, get a hotel, etc.

The entitled segment of the population are taking away the cheap flight deals. If you want some insurance, which is exactly what we are talking about, that costs money.

This article features a 17 year old who took a nap in an airport when his connector was delayed. How outraged am I supposed to be?

So, if I was flying business class (don't do that much and never had a problem), I would expect a lot more than if I was on a $240 flight to Mexico I found at CheapSeats.com.

Also, we have turned our airports into freak shows of security theatrics. Anyone who books a 1 hour layover is very likely to have a big problem. These days, 2 hours is not enough in many cases. Long layovers need to be expected.

Air travel is work. Try to not be the a-hole who screams like a colicky baby when the drink service doesn't have your flavour of soft drink. Learn the system and learn how to avoid problems instead of endlessly blaming other people.

People who have a a reasonable ability to deal with problems, come up with alternatives, and make the best out of situations, have worlds less acrimony in their lives. I'm not just talking about air travel.

I booked a flight on AC just yesterday. I expect it will be fine. I will wear a mask, over my nose, and generally be a civilized traveller. The flight will be fine and we will focus on enjoying Vancouver while looking for James' house.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

TomB16 said:


> There is a seemingly large element of society that feels if they miss a connector they deserve a million dollars in small unmarked bills as well as hotel and limousine service.
> 
> I've slept in airports and it didn't kill me. A few years ago, we had a 7 hour layover after a very long connector flight. We were tired so we found some lounge chairs and took turns sleeping. There wasn't sufficient time to leave the secured area, get a hotel, etc.
> 
> ...


Let's start with your exaggeration:

_There is a seemingly large element of society that feels if they miss a connector they deserve a million dollars in small unmarked bills as well as hotel and limousine service._

Nobody in the news article or in this thread asked for the moon.

Now let's move on to your downplaying the situation and lack of empathy:

_This article features a 17 year old who took a nap in an airport when his connector was delayed._

The incident involved a nearly 18-hour wait! And it didn't affect just one teenager, it was all the Winnipeg-bound passengers on the flight.

Full disclosure, Tom, do you own shares in Air Canada or do you have some other allegiance to the airline? You seem to be trying to defend the indenfensible here.

_People who have a a reasonable ability to deal with problems, come up with alternatives, and make the best out of situations, have worlds less acrimony in their lives._ 

^^ Now apply that to companies. If the delays in this case were indeed successive and sending the passengers to a hotel truly wasn't a realistic option, then offer travel vouchers at the very least. Quit being so stingy!! But it's hard to take Air Canada's word at face value when the company was recently caught fudging the reasons for flights being rescheduled and cancelled (see post #2 above by @Beaver101). 

An airline with an already shaky reputation certainly isn't making things easier for itself. Self-inflicted wounds and all that.

And, like you, I don't tend to complain when I travel. I had a six-hour layover in Toronto in June and a five-hour layover in Edmonton just last week. I didn't fuss in either case because I booked the tickets, saved a little money and was prepared for that downtime in airports. Accordingly, I downloaded some podcasts to listen to while I passed time and made some phone calls. I wasn't stuck for an additional 12 or 13 hours with a young child. Try feeling a little compassion. Our focus as investors here is often about the bottom line, but there are instances when companies absolutely should be more accommodating. This was one of them.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

No question, there are problems. Yes, no one like cancellations. Or delays.

But....once in a while I have looked at the on line YYZ arrival and departure boards. There are some large delays...but there are also many that show an hour or less on both arrivals and departures.

It is really easy to say avoid connections but for many people connections are an inevitable part of travel-domestic or international. 

Air Canada screwed up. But they are not alone. Just think back to a few weeks ago with the snafu at Transat over denied passage for the Ukrainian refugee. Or the constant travails of Sunquest.

I have had a Westjet Winnipeg agent tell me that that my flight to Calgary was cancelled and my her only choice was rerouting me through Toronto. One minor detail....Toronto was having a major snowstorm. Another minor detail... WRONG direction.

So I mentioned that should could put me on the Regina flight that connected to Calgary.

Seems to me that Air Canada is a little like CBC. Some people like to bash them both constantly. 

Just try United, or Frontier, or Jetblue a few times.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

ian said:


> No question, there are problems. Yes, no one like cancellations. Or delays.
> 
> But....once in a while I have looked at the on line YYZ arrival and departure boards. There are some large delays...but there are also many that show an hour or less on both arrivals and departures.
> 
> ...


That's fair, Ian. It's not just Air Canada, but that airline is often at the forefront due to being the country's largest and making some very poor decisions.

Air Canada and more than a dozen other airlines are fighting tooth and nail in the courts to try to quash a strengthened passenger bill of rights that the feds fashioned.









Canadian airlines asking appeal court panel to quash passenger rights rules - National | Globalnews.ca


Air Canada and Porter Airlines are among the applicants arguing that payments required under the country's three-year-old passenger rights charter violate international standards.




globalnews.ca





I hope the industry loses!


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> That's fair, Ian. It's not just Air Canada, but that airline is often at the forefront due to being the country's largest and making some very poor decisions.
> 
> Air Canada and more than a dozen other airlines are fighting tooth and nail in the courts to try to quash a strengthened passenger bill of rights that the feds fashioned.
> 
> ...


The Canadian air passenger consumer regs are pathetic. No surprise there. Similar regulation approach as we have with the cell phone carriers.

I recently had a look at them after securing 600eu ($785 cad) compensation for a 7 hour delay on a Transat flight from Faro, Portugal. Took me less than 10 minutes to fill out the form on the Transat web site. Prior to boarding they gave everyone a flyer about the EU regs. Can you imagine a Canadian or US airline doing this???

Five weeks later a reply ........ apology from Transit and advice that our compensation (2 X $785) will be mailed to us within two weeks.

My learning....next time we fly to Europe we will fly or be ticketed on an EU based airline all things being equal. Lufthansa, KLM, ITA, TAP, etc

EU airline consumer protection applies to EU based airlines flying from NA to Europe as well as the other way. It also applies to reward tickets.

In Europe everyone seems to moan and groan about discount carrier Easyjet. But their flights are still full! We have had five or six flights with them and they have all been good. Including the one in late June.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

ian said:


> It is really easy to say avoid connections but for many people connections are an inevitable part of travel-domestic or international.


I did not read anyone saying to avoid connections. I wrote that 1 hour connections are no longer OK, nearly all the time. Two hours is a minimum connection interval for us, particularly when it is two different carriers. If we were flying around Western Canada and had a same-carrier connection in Calgary or Winnipeg, I might be OK with an hour. Other than that...

Expect delays and consider it a pleasant surprise when there are none.





ian said:


> Just try United, or Frontier, or Jetblue a few times.


A lot of people like Delta. I despise them and will never fly them again.

I've never flown an Asian carrier but will do so this winter. It will be interesting to see the difference.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

TomB16 said:


> I did not read anyone saying to avoid connections. I wrote that 1 hour connections are no longer OK, nearly all the time. Two hours is a minimum connection interval for us, particularly when it is two different carriers. If we were flying around Western Canada and had a same-carrier connection in Calgary or Winnipeg, I might be OK with an hour. Other than that...
> 
> Expect delays and consider it a pleasant surprise when there are none.
> 
> ...


We have. Five times to Thailand. Our experience... absolute best was Korean Air that was a Delta codeshare. Then Delta. Absolute worst was United/ANA or Air Canada/ANA. Delta made changing our reservations while we were in Thailand a dream and as easy as a ten minute phone call. Absolute opposite with United-a nightmare.

In Asia we have flown often on Air Asia as well as NOK, VietAirlines, Scoot, and Jetstar (all of them). All we fine. Air Asia and Scoot were long haul to Australia. 10 hours. They were fine from our perspective. Far, far better than our ANA experiences. 

Narita Airport, or at least the lounge area where you arrive and depart for international connections is a dump compared to the Seoul airport. We are hoping to avoid it this winter.


----------



## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

londoncalling said:


> Is anybody flying out of Vancouver (YVR) or Calgary (YYC)? It doesn't seem to have any bad press. I understand Pearson in the main hub for travel out of Canada but am curious to hear from those on the left coast. I am considering going west to avoid Pearson even though my final destination is further East. I am willing to add a guaranteed couple of hours to my air time if it reduces the probability of experiencing the sh&t show going on in Toronto. I understand the media likes to jump on sensationalistic stories but compensation should have been given to these customers.


Pearson problems seem overblown to me. I know several different people who have flown through it in the past month without any issues.


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Covariance said:


> Vancouver has been, in my experience, no where near as chaotic as YYZ. That said, if you are looking at connecting somewhere - my rule 1 is to only book direct flights. This is particularly important at the moment when the probability of missed or delayed flight is so much higher. End to end probability is multiplicative.


Thank you for sharing your insight as to YVR. Unfortunately for me the number of direct flights out of country available to me has almost disappeared since Covid 19. I usually have to connect through another city. YYC is my preferred hub due to familiarity and layover time Hopefully, by the time I fly out of country things will be better.

As to Pearson's problems being overblown, they may be exaggerated but are certainly not one offs. Most of the people I know that have gone through YYZ hassle free have had Nexus status and are experienced air travellers. My Nexus has expired and I will renew as soon as I start flying more frequently. I have heard there are still delays with renewals and applications but that may have subsided.

Pearson airport delays decreasing but still less than half of flights leave on time | Montreal Gazette

Less than of flights leaving on time is nothing to be proud of. Most expect a better success rate especially if one is not compensated for being delayed for hours on end. These delays are not the result of weather. Unfortunately, oligopolies can get away with poorer service when consumers do not have a better option. I understand the situation is complicated but improving and they are trying to make it better. I am in a situation where I can wait out any personal travel. My business travel has been limited as a result of the current chaos regarding delays and cancellations.


----------



## undersc0re (Oct 7, 2017)

I have heard so many horror stories….most are connecting flights missed due to delays making people have to usually get a motel room and shortening the vacation and making them late for weddings or something like that.


----------



## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

Pre-pandemic, we generally had decent/good experiences with AC. I encounted the odd small hiccup during some work trips but nothing terribly horrible. But I don't doubt there are some pretty bad experiences from reading the AC forum on Flyertalk. I have to also agree that my experience with US carriers has been generally worse, specifically for domestic and transborder flights. My best experiences have been with Alaska and Delta though. I'm biased with Delta though because they honoured a ridiculous mistake fare.  Love the non-mainland China major asian carriers like ANA, JAL, EVA, Singapore, etc. I like NOK but don't love Jetstar. And I find AirAsia is kind of hit and miss too. We began trying to limit flying on LCC's unless for relatively short fights.

The problem with the Canadian compensation is the "safety issue" get out of free card. They (AC and WS) call it a "safety issue" when it's a staffing issue which I suppose it can be but it can likely also be considered poor staff scheduling/planning IMO. It is kind of situation dependent though but there's so lack of transparency. 
Also have to agree that airlines in general don't seem to do a good job supporting/communicating to travellers when they cancel or delay flights. If you're an experienced traveller, you're more likely able to be more proactive in figuring out where to go, who to talk to, etc. For non-frequent travellers, they're more likely waiting around for information. I'm stero-typing of course.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I have flown with Air Canada quite a bit throughout the pandemic, including in 2020. Probably around 15 flights over 2020-2022.

Overall I would say it's been pretty smooth, with just one multi-hour delay. I had a US/Canada flight today with them and it was only delayed by about 20 minutes. Today's flight was fine.

*All* of my flights have been direct. So when I say 15 flights with only one big delay, I'm talking about direct flights mostly through YVR, YWG, YYZ.

The part of the trip that caused me the most stress was the airport security screening in the US. For some reason it's always more chaotic and unpleasant than Canadian security, but the crowds were horrendous. When it came to AC's part, the check-in counter, ArriveCan verification, etc all was smooth and stress-free.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Let's start with your exaggeration:
> 
> _There is a seemingly large element of society that feels if they miss a connector they deserve a million dollars in small unmarked bills as well as hotel and limousine service._
> 
> ...


 ... it's unfortunate that there are these customers with this kind of mentality that let the airlines get away with such blatant pissy-services just as there are these customers who demand the world for their little wimps like the additional 1 minute to get their champagne in first. business class. No wonder "nothing improves". And so might as well keep up with that delusional-balloon that the airlines are doing such a great job. In fact, a heck lot better than before! Better yet, I say how about donating or at least paying additional air-fares for the fantastic job for the customers with nothing but positive and wonderful compliments for the industry so its employees can get additional training or help keep the industry afloat. Besides not only words are cheap, but they do squat.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I have flown with Air Canada quite a bit throughout the pandemic, including in 2020. Probably around 15 flights over 2020-2022.
> 
> Overall I would say it's been pretty smooth, with just one multi-hour delay. I had a US/Canada flight today with them and it was only delayed by about 20 minutes. Today's flight was fine.
> 
> ...


 ... maybe okay doing personal/fun travelling but if you're a "business" traveller, I wouldn't discount "delays - an hour here and an hour there" as "nothing". Overall, I prefer knowing a delay in advance than not.

One time, my full-plane was delayed for 2+ hours because the technicians(?) were trying to fix the plane of a "hydraulic leak" as "announced by the pilot". Imagine that of what was going through the passengers' mind. I'm asking how safe is the plane even after the "fix"????! After all that poking here and there I guess, we all had to transfer to another plane that was incoming for the night to get a hitch. [I was really thankful my bags arrived on time as all my gifts were in there.] Yeah, we all sat there for that entire time. At least we weren't on the tarmac unlike another time/flight (another story). And no we didn't get peanuts or a drink while stucked there. At least the bathrooms were available. I can't recall if we got to watch any videos but there were those promotional magazines along with the safety cards in the back seat that you can "memorize while waiting". Or use your laptop / cellphone to call someone.


----------



## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

Personally, I get on a plane and expect nothing except my seat and room for my bags and a departure within an hour of schedule. Arrival within a couple of hours of schedule. I will bring what I need to survive the flight. After thousands of flights, two crashes, a half dozen multi-hour thunderstorm/turbulance events that resulted in passengers deplaned in stretchers, countless times being "stuck" somewhere overnight (one occasion ten days), hearing every possible reason for an airline to delay/cancel a flight (eg World Cup soccer match is in overtime, we will depart after our heroes claim victory). Come prepared, expect little, plan for the worst (it really is a good idea to memorize how many rows to the exit door in my experience). And walk away smiling - 99% of the time.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Does anyone enjoy air travel? It used to be fun in the late 70s and into the 80s, before Air Canada turned into a steaming pile. Maybe it was the more positive perspective of TomB0.16. WestJet had a couple of good decades following LD0.

These days, I look at air travel as an evil to be endured. At it's best, it's OK. At it's worst, it gets pretty ugly.

The worst aspect of air travel is sitting beside some broad who screams at the flight attendant, every time she is asked to put her mask over her nose. My gawd.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

How are the flight delay stats that are sometimes announced calculated? The YYZ CEO recently reported that 44 percent of flights left on time. I would like to know the numbers of flight delays within, say, 15 or 30 minutes of scheduled departure time.

Is a five, ten, or fifteen minute flight delay placed in the same bucket for reporting purposes as a five hour delay?

I have never viewed a short delay as an issue.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Does anyone enjoy air travel? It used to be fun in the late 70s and into the 80s, before Air Canada turned into a steaming pile. Maybe it was the more positive perspective of TomB0.16. WestJet had a couple of good decades following LD0.
> 
> These days, I look at air travel as an evil to be endured. At it's best, it's OK. At it's worst, it gets pretty ugly.
> 
> *The worst aspect of air travel is sitting beside some broad who screams at the flight attendant, every time she is asked to put her mask over her nose. My gawd.*


 ... worst than a "constant" crying baby (6 months old)? How about the joy of sitting besides/behind a so-cute, so sweet well-behaved toddler that you were going coo, coo, coo all the way ... only to find out you were given a gift (aka the 'source) of the pox/mumps a few days later? God bless that kid there ... LMAO.


----------



## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

ian said:


> How are the flight delay stats that are sometimes announced calculated? The YYZ CEO recently reported that 44 percent of flights left on time. I would like to know the numbers of flight delays within, say, 15 or 30 minutes of scheduled departure time.
> 
> Is a five, ten, or fifteen minute flight delay placed in the same bucket for reporting purposes as a five hour delay?
> 
> I have never viewed a short delay as an issue.


I was told that a flight is delayed if it closes it’s door and moves from the gate after the scheduled departure time. You may have noticed that flights often “push back”, and then wait


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Covariance said:


> Personally, I get on a plane and expect nothing except my seat and room for my bags and a departure within an hour of schedule. Arrival within a couple of hours of schedule. I will bring what I need to survive the flight. After thousands of flights, two crashes, a half dozen multi-hour thunderstorm/turbulance events that resulted in passengers deplaned in stretchers, countless times being "stuck" somewhere overnight (one occasion ten days), hearing every possible reason for an airline to delay/cancel a flight (eg World Cup soccer match is in overtime, we will depart after our heroes claim victory). Come prepared, expect little, plan for the worst (it really is a good idea to memorize how many rows to the exit door in my experience). And walk away smiling - 99% of the time.


You've actually had a couple of crashes? I'm curious which years these were in?

And yes, always a good idea to look at where the emergency exits are.

Additionally, be awake and alert during the most critical / high-risk periods, which are the few minutes (5 mins) after take-off and few minutes (10 mins) before landing. These are the times you might have to act fast, listen to flight attendant instructions, or find an exit.

I used to listen to music or take a nap during these phases of the flight, until I learned that this is where things are most likely to go wrong. You wouldn't want to be half asleep as the flight attendants are giving instructions, where a matter of seconds could mean life or death.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Have you guys who think this 17 year old girl was treated badly read the article? If not, please do.

Her connecting flight was delayed, then cancelled. She was then booked on another connector which was delayed and cancelled. Apparently, this happened a few times. It's not like they knew her flight was delayed a day and they told her to sleep on the floor.

Also, she said she locked herself in a nursing room to get some sleep. I'm in favour of openly displayed boobies in the terminal, or anywhere else for that matter, but surely this was a selfish and inconsiderate thing for her to do to other mothers who might have otherwise appreciated the privacy of a nursing room?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Have you guys who think this 17 year old girl was treated badly read the article? If not, please do.
> 
> Her connecting flight was delayed, then cancelled. She was then booked on another connector which was delayed and cancelled. Apparently, this happened a few times. It's not like they knew her flight was delayed a day and they told her to sleep on the floor.


 ... care to read it "carefully" or think it through? AC KNEW her flights (connecting et al) were being cancelled, then why don't they start arranging for her stay in a hotel or motel or even the crew's lounge? Instead of "here, we had to go through the trouble of getting you a yoga mat to sleep on. Are you ever so lucky" And "next time, figure it yourself as an airline, we are not responsible for delayed flights." It's out of our control when the planes land. they fly by themselves." ... which brings me the questions - are there them human pilots on them even? Scary thought. Pilot-less planes now. And robotic stewardess. How about "just hand your $800 bucks over" and "figure out how to pilot your own plane?". Sheesh. 



> Also, she said she locked herself in a nursing room to get some sleep. I'm in favour of openly displayed boobies in the terminal, or anywhere else for that matter, but surely this was a selfish and inconsiderate thing for her to do to other mothers who might have otherwise appreciated the privacy of a nursing room?


 ... what's the matter with you? Why do you need to see her boobs - the internet is full of them... didn't you know the "current trend" is NAKED dresses and "free the nipple"? did you not see the part where she said:



> _Sherefa ended up sleeping in a women's nursing room, which she was able to lock.
> 
> "It was super cramped," she said, "but it was better than nothing at that point."_


 ... which would mean there were other nursing mothers there. I don't suppose it's "super-cramped" when there's only 1.5 bodies (herself+kid) there? Or do they make nursing rooms smaller than s shoe closest these days?


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

The mind is a terrible thing to waste.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

WHO was late to warm of monkey pox spreading from certain activities

Looks like mad cow is affecting the elderly now


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> WHO was late to warm of monkey pox spreading from certain activities
> 
> Looks like mad cow is affecting the elderly now


 ... are you sure you don't have mad cow disease because I didn't know WHO was warming up on monkeypox, applicable to your gender mostly but spread to the opposite (depending on your definition of course) ... LMFAO.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> The mind is a terrible thing to waste.


 ... it sure is. Besides, I need to practice more on your quote ...


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Does anyone enjoy air travel? It used to be fun in the late 70s and into the 80s, before Air Canada turned into a steaming pile. Maybe it was the more positive perspective of TomB0.16. WestJet had a couple of good decades following LD0.
> 
> These days, I look at air travel as an evil to be endured. At it's best, it's OK. At it's worst, it gets pretty ugly.
> 
> The worst aspect of air travel is sitting beside some broad who screams at the flight attendant, every time she is asked to put her mask over her nose. My gawd.



Must be because people were allowed to smoke during the flight.  

Yes air travel for some is a necessary evil. For others a nuisance. Like most things a positive attitude helps endure most hardships. That being said when costs go up and service goes down people generally tend to get pissy. I've never been in a crash but over the years I have been delayed, rerouted on descent, held on the tarmac for hours, overnighted in the terminal on the floor, snowed in, connecting flight cancelled and bused 30 mins to a hotel by the airline to find out my room was given to someone else and had to sleep in the alley etc. 

I empathize with airport staff. Unfortunately, when your job entails dealing with frustrated customers it can be quite stressful. Finding the right level of diplomacy as a customer is important so that you do not get ignored while ensuring you don't ruin your and someone else's day. At the end of the day these are first world problems but they can be addressed with first world solutions.

Be Kind. Please Rewind.


----------



## undersc0re (Oct 7, 2017)

Beaver101 said:


> ... that will be the day. What???? No room service either!!!! WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


And they have to try and sleep with masks on!


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

undersc0re said:


> And they have to try and sleep with masks on!


 ... nah, that would be too cruel to the entitled privileged class crybabies. I'm sure the stewardess will let them snore and breathe on each other's breaths in that closed-off section. Pray the plane's filtration works well as intended (ie. filter out out any airborne viruses) before that germy air flows to over to the economy section.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> ... it sure is. Besides, I need to practice more on your quote ...


Keep swinging, my friend. You know what I mean.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Warning: you might get disappointed because I have no one on Ignore so hard to stay away - for the other member that is.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

More customers seeking pity. Surely couldn't be Air Canada and WestJet's fault, even though the federal government is trying to force the airline industry's hand to fairly compensate passengers. 



https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/westjet-air-canada-compensation-crew-1.6547482


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ One action (as words are cheap and what's pity worth these days?): BOYCOTT


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Snowbirds travelling to Florida by bus this winter as a way to say FU to the airlines.  Those that have to travel by air for work will just have to wait till things improve. I am willing to hurry up and wait despite having several companion flights expiring before year end.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

How come every time I fact check a CBC article, it seems clear they are misrepresenting the truth? The detail in this article conflicts with the headline and narrative they are trying to propagate.

I would trust CTV or Global over CBC in a heart beat.

I have no love for Air Canada or WestJet. Both have treated customers terribly, although WJ has a long way to catch up in terms of quantity. Any given incident, however, should be considered on it's own merit. If someone was mistreated, fine; let's burn down the air line. If it seems clear the airline acted reasonably, as in this case, I must support them. Wright and wrong need to count for something or society means nothing.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

TomB16 said:


> How come every time I fact check a CBC article, it seems clear they are misrepresenting the truth? The detail in this article conflicts with the headline and narrative they are trying to propagate.
> 
> I would trust CTV or Global over CBC in a heart beat.
> 
> I have no love for Air Canada or WestJet. Both have treated customers terribly, although WJ has a long way to catch up in terms of quantity. Any given incident, however, should be considered on it's own merit. If someone was mistreated, fine; let's burn down the air line. If it seems clear the airline acted reasonably, as in this case, I must support them. Wright and wrong need to count for something or society means nothing.



Here you go, Tom. Something to keep you busy (and it's not from the CBC):

_The complaint backlog ballooned to more than 15,300 in May. It rose further “in the last month or so,” Oommen said, as a surge in travellers overwhelmed airline and airport resources following two years of muted demand.

Oommen said it’s “entirely possible” the regulator will receive more than 15,000 new complaints – distinct from the existing backlog – this fiscal year, which began April 1. That total would top the 12,158 fresh complaints from the previous 12 months, many relating to refunds withheld following flight cancellations by airlines._









Backlog of air passenger complaints is growing as Canadian Transportation Agency faces staff shortage


Canada’s transport regulator says its backlog of air passenger complaints is growing as a staff shortage comes up against a summer of airport chaos




www.theglobeandmail.com




.

^^ Tens of thousands of complaints to fact check. But we can assume they're just a bunch of whiners and complainers, no doubt!


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

And, yeah, WestJet is also a bad actor...









WestJet appeals order to compensate traveller after flight was cancelled due to lack of staff


The case could significantly impact Canadians' right to be compensated for recent air travel issues and delays due to well-documented airline staff shortages




nationalpost.com


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> And, yeah, WestJet is also a bad actor...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ... this is significant. If the appeal go successful for WJ or any other airline, they can basically hide behind this shield telling its flyers that they're sh1t out of luck with any compensation. Bottomline: if the air-travellers want to see any "real" result, one action: BOYCOTT.

Of course, then there're those who cannot avoid air-travel whether for pleasure or business, then can take their chance on this and not complain (aka lost their right to complain) regardless.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> The incident involved a nearly 18-hour wait! And it didn't affect just one teenager, it was all the Winnipeg-bound passengers on the flight.


I hope you understand I am not in favour of 18 hour, unscheduled, waits?

I just think it is a minor life adversity and not something worthy of a CBC article that attempts to paint an airline in the worst possible light. This is particularly so when the airline is struggling to maintain operations under pandemic conditions. You suck, CBC.

My point:

correct -> airlines and passengers have significant inconvenience because of a global pandemic

incorrect -> a 17 year old girl had a nap in an airport during an 18 hour, unscheduled, layover proving her airline is bad or is somehow doing something wrong


Sometimes life sucks. You do the best you can.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Tom, I'm afraid you're considerably behind in the news.

Re-read the link in post #44 - it's gonna to be more than just "sometime life sucks and you do the best you can" when it can potentially screw "all" passengers, like you, me and everyone else using the airlines.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

My spouse traveled on Air Canada yesterday. Flight left on time, arrived on time. No appreciable line up for security but she has Nexus, does on line check in with carry on only.

This was the last of our useable Aeroplan points. I think we have a balance of 700 points. Got rid of the Aeroplan credit cards a few years ago. The Aeroplan, previous and revised, plans are extremely poor compared to our Delta program. We joined United's Mileageplus plan when we cancelled our Aeroplan cards so that we can still accumulate some miles on Star Alliance.

Most of our flights are not in Canada and very few are with AC anymore. Besides our mileage credit is usually either 0 or 30 percent of the mileage.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ian said:


> My spouse traveled on Air Canada yesterday. Flight left on time, arrived on time. No appreciable line up for security but she has Nexus, does on line check in with carry on only.
> 
> This was the last of our useable Aeroplan points. I think we have a balance of 700 points. Got rid of the Aeroplan credit cards a few years ago. The Aeroplan, previous and revised, plans are extremely poor compared to our Delta program. We joined United's Mileageplus plan when we cancelled our Aeroplan cards so that we can still accumulate some miles on Star Alliance.
> 
> Most of our flights are not in Canada and very few are with AC anymore. Besides our mileage credit is usually either 0 or 30 percent of the mileage.


Aeroplan is a shitcoin from before shitcoins existed

There's a documentary that airlines are basically banks. This is where they make their money - printing fake money they control the supply and value of

There's an outcry about crypto scams and yet this has been going on in plain sight for decades


----------



## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

m3s said:


> There's an outcry about crypto scams and yet this has been going on in plain sight for decades


Probably because no one claimed airline miles would fix inflation.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Covariance said:


> Probably because no one claimed airline miles would fix inflation.


Nothing fixes inflation that is your interpretation of mainstream media or influencers clickbait entertainment

Not everyone can understand how market cycles work. I have said many times market speculation is just that

If you print fiat faster than gdp grows you get inflation seeing as people price things in fiat


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

These jokers at WestJet and Air Canada clearly need to face stronger enforcement of regulations.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-canada-westjet-compensation-1.6654385


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Our last few experiences with air Canada have been good. They have been professional.

Our last experience with westjet was decidedly not good.

So, we were at the Pearson lost luggage window, behind an oil guy from Alberta. There were about 90 people in the line. A few days earlier, he had checked some sort of strong case with an expensive instrument that had been lost. Because of this, he had been staying in Toronto, trying to recover the case.

Apparently, they sent him a text that his case was in the night before so he came down and they told him it wasn't there, check tomorrow. Just then was tomorrow but they refused to look for it.

The counter lady was yelling at this guy so I recorded it with my phone. Epic performance.

She told him to stand aside, called me up, asked what my problem is and I held my phone camera conspicuously when I asked her to look for the previous mans lost case.

There must have been 25 of us, crowded around the counter. Apparently, I was not the only one nonplussed by the wj employees performance.

Turned out, his box was behind the counter. Someone else brought it out for him and he left happy.

I'm currently enjoying some new clothes and have a new bag. Lol.

WJ is not the excellent airline it once was. Its a diseased turd that I will avoid flying.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

TomB16 said:


> Turned out, his box was behind the counter. Someone else brought it out for him and he left happy.
> 
> I'm currently enjoying some new clothes and have a new bag. Lol.
> 
> WJ is not the excellent airline it once was. Its a diseased turd that I will avoid flying.


Unbelievable.

But yeah, Westjet went down hill. Remember that a private equity company (Onex) bought them in 2019 so the ownership changed.


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Once I use up my companion flights and remaining WJ dollars I will consider shifting my loyalty back to AC. Their shift in focus may have been better for the business(haven't checked) but not for the customer. Now that I don't travel by air regularly it will be on a case by case basis.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I flew with AC four times this year and WJ four times this year. Based on my experiences, WJ (on-time, service level, price, etc) was the better of the two by a good margin.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I just had a good experience with Air Canada on a crazy journey from Rio de Janeiro to Toronto. Got here yesterday.

Everything that could go wrong did. The point is, AC staff did a beautiful job of navigating rough water. Staff were fantastic.

I would say that AC, in current form, is not as good as WJ during the early honeymoon phase of that company's life. WJ was an amazing company, back in the day. No airline will ever be as good as WJ was the first decade of their existence. AC is currently excellent and light years beyond my recent WJ experiences.

When I reported lost luggage, the person at the counter looked at his computer for a couple of minutes and then said, "I will put a trace on it". The luggage showed up 90 minutes later, covered in snow like it had just been pulled out of a snow bank. Oddly, there wasn't much snow at Pearson on Wednesday so they may have run it through a Slurpee machine, or something. The bag and contents are fine. My underwear didn't even get wet.

Props to Air Canada. Thank you for being a good company again.


----------



## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

Thanks for sharing a story that ends well. We need more of that these days.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I‘ve only flown with AC once in my life so can’t comment but I was surprised when this thread started as I’ve read that they have won some recent rewards.






Air Canada Recognized with Multiple Awards for People and Products as it Rebuilds Global Network and Welcomes Customers Back


/CNW Telbec/ - As Air Canada continues rebuilding its global network in response to increasing travel demand, the airline was recognized for its people,...




www.newswire.ca


----------



## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

I don't have a comparison for Canadian airlines except have been flying Air Canada for domestic flights. I had been flying 2-3 times annually for past 15 years or more. I used them for international also unless I had to use another airline for transfers. Fine.

Westjet doesn't serve my purposes anyway. Although I understand long time Albertans prefer Westjet. I've only flown Westjet once. Rarely check in my luggage, carry-on even for 4 wk. trip. Only shipping and checked is a bike.


----------



## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

When I travelled internationally to Europe and Asia, it was either carry luggage or carry-on set of 2 bike panniers for 4-3 wks. I do not pack dressy clothing at all. And we've dined in nice restaurants. I just wear dark long parachute material rainpants with or a black skort (which I bike in) and a non-cycling top for nicer restaurants. Museums, classical music concerts...no one cares. Besides, as a tourist I'd rather look pretty plain and humble...which I am. I'm one of these women who doesn't even wear makeup for quite awhile. My health and fitness while travelling is more critical while on the move.


----------

