# March 9, 2009 - Where were you?



## Greyhound86 (Feb 21, 2010)

March 9, 2009 is regarded as the low point the markets reached in the financial collapse/crisis.

Where were you and what were you doing? Staring at your shrinking investments? Hiding under the bed? Watching CNBC non-stop (remember the anchors saying things like "have faith America")?

I was away on a golf trip at that time. However I had given up on watching the markets and tried to keep it off my mind. In a state of denial or depression I guess.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Scared after I bought my first stock in Aug 2008 (bmo) 
Sold the stock not knowing enough about stock market crashes, my risk tolerance and investing. 
Bought back the stock around $30 and an energy etf, held for a month or so then sold again to make money back. Lost a few hundred dollars. 

Kept dca in pension and rsp I think. 

Tried to sell my rental but nobody bought.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I was ok with my gold mutual fund at the time but was scared of a depression or something happening. For most people I think what set them back was March 2009 was not long after the death and destruction of Oct. 2008 and no one thought it was going to get worse then that and it did.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't even want to think about the days I was invested in MF's. 

I never sold until late 09 and luckily, I recovered, unlike people who sold in panic.

Why the need to remember those days? Let's look at the present/future, not the past [except for mistakes learned].


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

T.gal we have fun looking at RIM and it is much worse then 2009 ha ha. Call me crazy but I find the disasters like the 1930's, the tech wreck, crash of 1987 and the crazy 70's as very interesting. The bull market years are actually boring and often uninteresting.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I was in my familiar place under the bed where I have spent most of the time since then.

I too have learned not to sell in a panic as I have remained fully invested during all market conditions. However, I have recently changed my asset allocation to a more conservative stance (50 per cent equities/40 per cent bonds/10 per cent cash) mainly because of my age (approaching 70) and because of all of the uncertainties out there now.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I distinctly remember those few days. For me, I am not sure if it was March 9th, but around that time frame. I started stocking up on food/water and I was working on 4 hours of sleep everyday analyzing bank's book values. Listening in on US congressional debates on cspan

The decision came when someone, I forgot who, came out and made a long statement about why nationalizing the banks is a bad idea. That was the final straw for me. Two days later, I pulled the trigger on my first buy order in a long time. This, I remembered distinctly as the turning point of the attitudes toward the financial collapse in congress.

In the following weeks, I saw so many of my fellow investors go bankrupt or suddenly gain riches beyond their ability to comprehend. One guy borrowed from HELOC and doubled it in one week. He used the proceeds to pay off his house. I must say, jealousy helped me break my own rule and put in more. Won't do that again. The gyrations were wreaking havoc with my emotional well being. Imagine 50% swing in total portfolio value per day.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I think I was in a fetal position with my thumb in my mouth. But I didn't sell.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

dogcom said:


> 1. T.gal we have fun looking at RIM and it is much worse then 2009 ha ha.
> 2. The bull market years are actually boring and often uninteresting.


1. I don't like remembering that I had an advisor, who knew less than what I know now [except I had not been aware of that fact], plus the fact that I owned Mutual Funds. 

Also, those were very dark/scary days for many people; reminiscing certain times is a waste of time/emotion IMHO as we have enough chaos to deal with at present.

2. I like volatility too, but very painful for the, shall we say 'unlearned'?

LOL Belguy, there had been no need for you to tell us where you were back then. ROFL.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I took the whole roller coaster ride and am still here to tell the tale. The secret comes with the power of positive thinking which I have always preached and always tried to practice.


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

Just starting out. What a great time to start. Buy low, buy waaay low.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I was packing for a cruise and honestly did not even look at my statements much then ,all I knew it was bad down about 40% and sold nothing...


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Did anyone on the boards put substantial money in? I'm curious how you would approach it. Break your cash into tranches and average down? I can't wait for the next 20% or greater drop.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I was in denial. 

My hubby was laid off with our second child. I had 'gambled' with our mortgage payoff money in July 2008, and put $xxx,xxx to make my money work for me, and at that time, I was down by over 50%. My regular investments with my advisor were down 40%

I wanted to put more money in the markets, but with no income, I couldn't do it. Instead, I did started 'day trading' to try and recoup my loses. I didn't have the capital to lower my cost base, so I started taking loses. I would sell when there were little peaks, and then wait until it dropped and buy more back. I did this for a couple of stocks. 

I'm still here, my stocks are back up, and I have a lot lower cost base.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

Sure did, during 2009, I poured everthing I had sitting on the sidelines into CDN banks, REITs and a couple of income funds - 1000 shares of RY, 1200 BMO, 2500 BNS, 1000 REI.UN, 1000 HR.UN and some other small "risky" stuff like Scott's and RMM.UN

Banks were on sale at $30, Riocan at $12.25, H&R at $6.25 . . . Friday afternoons in EMBA class were very profitable!


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

jcgd said:


> Did anyone on the boards put substantial money in? I'm curious how you would approach it. Break your cash into tranches and average down? I can't wait for the next 20% or greater drop.


I converted quite a bit of my fixed income to equity. But I was way too early. (I started when the market dipped below 11000.) I even leveraged to a small extent. Some eventually worked out quite well - particularly REITs and preferred shares. But they went quite a bit lower before they regained ground. Too stressful.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Greyhound86 said:


> March 9, 2009 is regarded as the low point the markets reached in the financial collapse/crisis.
> 
> Where were you and what were you doing? Staring at your shrinking investments? Hiding under the bed? Watching CNBC non-stop (remember the anchors saying things like "have faith America")?
> 
> [ ... ]


I started looking for bargains or trend buys in Nov 2008.

It's not a full count but what I can remember for sure is between Nov 2008 and April 2009 buying something like twelve stocks. Comparing against what I sold for or what today's close was, the results are:

a) paper losses - three [ 90%, 20% and 20%]
(no one has those, right?  )

b) up between 31% and 84% - eight.

c) highly leveraged to financial institutions split share - sold for a 207% CG.

I've ignored dividends/distributions but c) took three months to re-start paying distributions but by the time I sold in Mar 2011, the distributions has paid back 53% of the purchase price - so I was quite happy to have risked a limited amount cash.


Cheers


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## Greyhound86 (Feb 21, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Why the need to remember those days? Let's look at the present/future, not the past [except for mistakes learned].


It was painful and stressful but we did learn a lot. For those of us who were invested in MF's it showed us there might be a better way.

I look it at as also a liberating event. The crisis taught a lot of us to take better care of our investments ourselves and not be so trusting in others. 

I was a bit lucky with the timing as my business had generated a bunch of excess cash by January 2009 and I slowly invested it in some good companies at cheap prices throughout 2009.

I still cannot believe (especially after reading "The Big Short" and others) that regulators, bank boards and mutual fund managers did not realize how much risk the big US banks and AIG were taking on all of those bad mortgages.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> ... Also, those were very dark/scary days for many people; ...





jcgd said:


> Did anyone on the boards put substantial money in? I'm curious how you would approach it. Break your cash into tranches and average down? I can't wait for the next 20% or greater drop.



@ Toronto.gal: That's where having few debts, living through other drops such as the tech crash in 2000 or so and having good cash flow helps keep perspective.


@jcgd: Compared to most people that post here, I don't think it was big money but it's big money to me. 

For only a few that dropped further, I bought more (ex. PGF at $12, $10 and I seem to recall a low of $7). It wasn't really a planned thing but more of a "I have some spare time - Man this is a bargain I can't resist!" scenario.

As for the next 20% drop, who knows when it will happen? Just be prepared by having some favourites that you are familiar with, keep some cash available and keep your eyes open.


Cheers


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

I was skiing at Silver Star Mtn.
I had bought 200 Teck Corp (TCK.B) the day before for 4.09 per share.
I'm stilling kickin myself for selling at 19.00 about 3 months later...ho hum.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

In 2009 I was naive and living under a rock like most people with no market exposure. Aside from the occasional news clip about the markets and people losing jobs left and right, I didn't really see the significance, the world I lived in went on as normal...


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

After that financial crises, I said if we ever get big dips again, I am going to start dumping money in. 

I did that in Aug- Sept last year and pick up some good buys. 
Suncor, CNR, RY, ENB, etc.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Funny we had a meeting for the company I work for and they said the stock was down from 60 to $9 share. 

Well we all should have bought around that table, because it returned to around 60.


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## phrenk (Mar 14, 2011)

I was part of a massive restructuring at my employer in January, so i was still living off of the 3 months severance package I was given, studying for CFA exam, playing video games and starting to look for a job ... and quickly enough, found one in April, wasn't too hard.

I didn't sell any of my stocks, but didn't have the cash to invest either... just waited it out.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Was skiing Lake Louise and Sunshine - a great week.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I was too busy chasing women to even notice there was a problem with the markets.

Similar to the post below.

Didn't buy my first stock until 2010.



ddkay said:


> In 2009 I was naive and living under a rock like most people with no market exposure. Aside from the occasional news clip about the markets and people losing jobs left and right, I didn't really see the significance, the world I lived in went on as normal...


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Similar to KJ and DDK, I wasn't following the markets at this time aside from lifelong precious metals watching. I was graduating from university and saving up all of my cash for a Europe trip. Looking back on it, would I have given up my trip to go all in knowing my investments would be a slam dunk? Not a chance, which is why I recommend all new graduates to forget investing and see what you want to see in the world first. If I would give up a generational bottom to go, it must be worth it. Life is short, go live it! The market wasn't even in the mainstream news that spring, it was all about swine flu..


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Argonaut said:


> would I have given up my trip to go all in knowing my investments would be a slam dunk? Not a chance


You're nuts.

For me, it's always about money first. There is an unlimited amount of time to travel, party, meet people, drink, and so on.

I don't trade money for many things. Money buys comfort. I like that.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

You've got it backwards, there is a limited time to be young and a near unlimited time to make money. What's being 30 with a bit more money and no stories to tell good for? Anyway, by definition of a market bottom, the buying interest was so low in March '09 that not many people can say they timed it perfectly.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I was'nt in the market either,living life(had a sizeable chuck in mutuals and funny enough it did'nt even register that i was losing)Funny how you catch all the small blips never mind an epic meltdown when you go self-direct.

I don't know kae,i bet $$ to donuts there would be a few millionaires out there that are past middle aged that would trade you for your youth!with there money You can't buy or control time and nethier that certian "freedom" being young offers!imo....but then again people say they become happy as they age so maybe not but i dunno.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Easterlin paradox?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

*it's the story of his life*

march 2009 - preoccupied w women

march 2010 - february 2062 - preoccupied w finance

march 2062 into eternity - preoccupied w women


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Do we chase the women, or do they chase the money?


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## dave2012 (Feb 17, 2012)

Oh no! An opportunity to vent! 

[start-of-rant]

We were still fully invested in all kinds of MF's, a few stocks, maybe 1% or less cash back in March 09 and had just moved back to our previous 'sales' advisor after firing the current one. Didn't have anywhere else to go, so we just picked the lesser of two bad situations. In the end this was just another mistake we made trusting the sales advisor world with our nest egg. I should have been getting on the ball myself at that time to take over. I don't even remember March being the bottom. We were just too depressed and frustrated with the situation and had lost all confidence in the financial world.

During the crash we road down 45%. Sleepless nights, and countless hours pissed of at our sales advisor and the whole system for not being there to help with any damage control and having us in such a mishmass of random MF's with high DSC's to prevent us from leaving, crappy labour sponsored funds (money going to 0 is pretty much guaranteed) and not a dime in something safe other than a few decent bonds. No options were provided to protect any of our investments and after analysis we were in a high risky portfolio with way too much in foreign which we had not sign up for. With such a convoluted portfolio (and 50-60 holdings) it was impossible to every figure out where you stood without learning it all yourself.

We never got one call from our sales advisor during the crash from start to end to provide some direction, or anything for that matter. Our last sales advisor told us they couldn't tell anybody to sell anything because they might be wrong... duh.

I remember when I questioned one of our sales advisors about our returns being dismal compared to the markets (this was pre crash) He faxed a copy of some hand written calculations for some of our holdings! lol

Ever cheque we had ever brought in was immediately dumped into just another MF so we had nothing 'safe' and certainly no cash to take advantage of the bottom. They had no problem with us dropping off a big cheque and dumping it in on a market high... "doesn't matter, it will all average out in the end". Once a year we'd meet, they'd give their talk about 'the markets', move one or two things around perhaps to look good and voila good for another year (or until we brought in another cheque).

What I learned from the event was that most sales advisors are there to simply take your cheque and dump it into some high MER MF or maybe a stock once in a while or perhaps suggest participating in some crappy gov't endorsed programs like labour sponsored funds, as long as it is 'endorsed' by the company. Never in more than 25 years has any of the 3 sales advisors that I have suggest we have anything in gold, cash, GIC's or anything else where they do not get a commission. And when I suggested buying AAPL I had to sign off that they were not responsible as it was not recommended by the 'company'. They had no problem suggesting we pump money into Nortel though lol. If I wanted to swap one stock for another, a whooping 5% lol (2.5% each trade).

You can see why I refuse to call them 'financial advisors' and use 'sales advisors' instead. None of them really did what they were supposed to be doing, and providing financial advise not just acting like cashiers.

I've been investing since the late 1980's and I am still upset that I provided all these guys with a loan of my money not only at 0% interested, but with a guarantee that they would make several %age points on all that money over all those years regardless of the markets. In fact they made more money on my money then I did over all that time. They really have no incentive to make my money grow, only to get the upfront commissions, trailer fees and DSC charges and ask me to recommend them to all my friends.

I apologize if I offend any of the real financial advisors out there that actually do a good job for clients. I have just never run across one myself, but I know you are out there somewhere!

PS. 2 of the 3 sales advisors I used worked for well know supposedly reputable (I think) financial companies.

Maybe in the long run the crash will do us good. After all now I am managing things I can see our money is actually growing and over the long term we will likely be way farther ahead had the crash not waken us up to the whole flawed MF / sales advisor world...

[/end-of-rant]


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Argonaut said:


> You've got it backwards, there is a limited time to be young and a near unlimited time to make money.


Sorry, I can see the confusion.

I wasn't clear enough. I agree that youth is limited and needs to be enjoyed, however, I was talking more in specifics how you said you wouldn't have given up your Euro trip to take advantage of the 09 lows.

What I meant is that you can always go to Europe another time, if you knew the meltdown was occurring. Obviously you didn't know/care at the time, and I'm sure you really enjoyed your journey in Europe.

I'd like to travel to Europe myself. But first, I'll be going to Australia next year. 



Jungle said:


> Do we chase the women, or do they chase the money?


Both.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

In Feb. 2009 I dropped 100k into a 3 year stepper GIC with TD. Thought it was a smart move with the markets crumbling the world over.

Hindsight is a *****.


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## Greyhound86 (Feb 21, 2010)

dave2012 said:


> Oh no! An opportunity to vent!
> 
> [start-of-rant]
> 
> ...



Great rant. I think a lot of us were in the exact same situation. We were much the same. Too many different MF's which we thought would give us some diversification but they were all basically the same and all crashed the same.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

haha ditto, great rant dave2012. I can relate to your frustration with high mer MFs and the supposed "advisors" selling them whom I prefer to call salesmen.
Fortunately I had already left them behind in mid-2006 for lower mer td e-funds 

I've just checked my records and on March 9, 2009 I added $800 to equity, which is a lot for one day for me considering that I only add $5,000 per year to my portfolio 

Unfortunately I took a profit from my bond funds and went from 90% to 100% equity a little to early in 2008, and caught full on the market's bottom dropping out.
I had diverted from my normal passive strategy and thought I was being smart. 
I guess I was overconfident because of some success in sitting out a small downturn in 2007 for two months, which netted me $10,000.

So from mid-2008-ish to mid 2011 I rode out the downturn all in, adding more to equity when I could. Now I'm at 10% cash, lesson learned.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Greyhound86 said:


> For those of us who were invested in MF's it showed us there might be a better way. I look it at as also a liberating event. The crisis taught a lot of us to take better care of our investments ourselves and not be so trusting in others.


No question that some good came out of it!

Education is key and the proof is in the number of people, who have turned to discount brokerages since the crisis.

I say congratulations to those [especially the women, who are busier than men for the most part], who took the time/effort/interest to educate themselves! However, it is not for everyone to do it alone as many simply don't have the attention/time/competence, etc. There are also those who view investing as an odious chore that they rather avoid doing themselves [like myself a few years ago], but worst of all, there are still many people who are afraid to learn because they believe the subject is too complicated, but it is NOT.

I have nothing against competent FA's, however, I think too many people with advisors [and even without], lack confidence & any sort of basic financial education even, hence they don't really know what they are investing in, how much they are paying, etc., and that I find that's the biggest problem, not so much that someone else may be managing their investments. 

For example, on the Lang & O'Leary show, David Chilton, the author of 'The Wealthy Barber', said that the question he gets asked the most, is 'what are dividends', which is one of the 3 basic D's [discipline/diversification/dividends]. And even now, 4 years after the TFSA was introduced, many people [even those working at banks, lol] are not sure of the key differences between an RRSP & a TFSA. 

With the huge amount of information out there these days, there is no reason for anyone to lack confidence or knowledge, no matter the age/gender, and I think parents should not wait for school curriculum changes, but start teaching them as soon as they are old enough to understand the basics. Those with teenagers should make them read some of the books recommended here. 

"Again, in the end, one of the main goals is a higher net worth. One way to do that is to lower your fees, but that by itself is not the answer. Until we raise the financial literacy level, many people may be better off taking their portfolio in for regular servicing."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-dont-do-it-yourself-investor/article2097312/


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

dave i am sorry that all of that happened in '09. It has left lingering pain & i am hoping that your own success will fade these memories.

a little-mentioned benefit to DIY investing, i think, is that one feels sturdier & more resilient during the inevitable market crashes. No energy gets wasted on feeling victimized. Because there is no one to blame except oneself. Because one has done the very best job one could. Because one has had the caution to build in some protective features such as bonds, alternate currencies, diversification.

i also believe, draconian & dismal though this may sound, that investors do not really find good advisors unless they have a net worth of at least several million dollars. Even at $2M, investment counsel/portfolio managers will channel a client into standardized model portfolios that his firm has either developed or else purchased.

for us ordinary folks, this means that the average household earner, busy enough with kids jobs spouse, has no choice but to take on the additional responsibility of managing his or her own lifetime savings & retirement plan. It all seems overwhelming. But already waystations of help have appeared. For countless investors, couch potato & sleepy portfolios offer excellent long-term investment structures plus minimal upkeep along the way.

others can find answers to questions & perhaps even some sort of assistance here in cmf forum.

a surprising development is the appearance of so many responsible young people in this forum. Here they are, not even 25 years old, doing a great job with their careers & their investment savings. A big toast to their good fortune.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Greyhound86 said:


> Great rant. I think a lot of us were in the exact same situation. We were much the same.
> 
> Too many different MF's which we thought would give us some diversification but they were all basically the same and all crashed the same.


Hmmm ... when the world markets crash as they did in 2008, the only type of diversification that *may* help is asset class. Those who'd moved into a higher allocation of cash before the crash did well. 

I'm not sure there was any equity MF that would've helped. The main ones that come to mind are the "balanced" which are part bond, part equity.

Now buying a Canadian equity MF thinking the underlying business for say CN or BNS wouldn't involve the US and would therefore be "safe" ... that's another issue.


Cheers


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## cato (Jul 4, 2011)

Mmmm, long time ago, I have just looked at my TDW statements. I remember closing my eyes, saying a little prayer, crossing my fingers and on 9 March, 2009 bought 400 PM @ US$32.87. That worked out better than I expected.

Cato


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

cato said:


> on 9 March, 2009 bought 400 PM @ US$32.87. That worked out better than I expected.
> 
> Cato


Words cannot describe my level of jealousy. Well done.


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