# COVID-19 thread for 2023



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Canada to require negative COVID-19 test for air travellers coming from China


The federal government has announced it will require a negative COVID-19 test for air travellers arriving from mainland China, Hong Kong or Macau.




www.ctvnews.ca


----------



## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Here are links to the older Covid threads:

Discussion for 2020 and 2021

Discussion for 2022


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

And here we are into the 4th year.

I remember when it started and it was going to be a couple weeks and done.

ltr


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

They still don't know the source of the virus for sure.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> And here we are into the 4th year.
> 
> I remember when it started and it was going to be a couple weeks and done.


That was never a possibility.
We knew right from the start this wasn't going to be SARS and easily snuffed out.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> That was never a possibility.
> We knew right from the start this wasn't going to be SARS and easily snuffed out.


At this point I'm just hoping we don't end up with widespread disability in the population.

Long Covid appears to be reasonably common. If catching Covid multiple times ends up leading to long term fatigue and other chronic problems, then we could be dealing with the disability problems for decades to come.


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

We definitely ended up with wide-spread authoritarianism, permanent loss of human rights, and permanent surveillance. 
Most common effects of long covid.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

damian13ster said:


> We definitely ended up with wide-spread authoritarianism, permanent loss of human rights, and permanent surveillance.
> Most common effects of long covid.


Not to mention paranoia, exaggeration, loss of perspective, and hyperbole.


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Certainly. People sitting alone in their cars in masks, families torn apart over vaccinations, shutting down economy, suspending charter, destroying peoples lives, the fear-porn


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

What country is the writer of posts #7 and 9 talking about? Can't be Canada since he's registered in the USA ... troll, troll troll and more troll ... ad nauseum.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> We definitely ended up with wide-spread authoritarianism, permanent loss of human rights, and permanent surveillance.
> Most common effects of long covid.





andrewf said:


> Not to mention paranoia, exaggeration, loss of perspective, and hyperbole.


Yes and yes.
The thing is that both sides are pushing the issues andrewf identified, and I'm not sure how to deal with them
I'd like to say free and open discussion, but that's at odds with current government policy.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

damian13ster said:


> Certainly. People sitting alone in their cars in masks, families torn apart over vaccinations, shutting down economy, suspending charter, destroying peoples lives, the fear-porn


Why does it offend you if people have a mask on in a car? That is just deranged. Do you shake your head at your dentist for wearing a mask while poking your gums?

I will admit to having driven my car, alone, while wearing a mask. Not because I was afraid, but because I was wearing it in the grocery store and it didn't bother me enough to remove it until I got home.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe it is just me........but over the course of the pandemic mask wearing, I became more aware of how beautiful women's eyes are.


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Doesn't offend me at all. Couldn't care less since it has absolutely zero effect on me.
Simply the things mentioned show the paranoia, exaggeration, loss of perspective, and hyperbole that you have mentioned.


----------



## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

sags said:


> They still don't know the source of the virus for sure.


They most definitely know where it came from. If you don’t think it came from the lab.. not sure what to tell you at this point.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MK7GTI said:


> They most definitely know where it came from. If you don’t think it came from the lab.. not sure what to tell you at this point.


 ... say you're correct given your "most definitely" it came from the lab. Then where did the lab get it from? Duh.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... say you're correct given your "most definitely" it came from the lab. Then where did the lab get it from? Duh.


Uhh, they took and modified existing strains of Coronaviruses. 

The lab created it, because that's what they do.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> Uhh, they took and modified existing strains of Coronaviruses.


 ... maybe they were "studying" them instead of yours and MK7GTI's "most definitely" aka with 100% certainty aka "proof" to back your statements up that it "came from the lab". And then even alleging it did AFTER you have "PROOF", then can you say those strains were "modified" like mutations don't happen naturally. Double-duhs.



> The lab created it, because that's what they do.


 ...sure the lab "created" it as if the scientists put some viral Legos in creating them. Which then it goes back to "your understanding that the Coronaviruses" have ALWAYS been around" .... on this planet. So which is it - humans created them in the lab or were they created outside and then brought into the lab? 

It wouldn't surprise me at all that these natural occurring viruses were here first before humankind. And brought into the lab for studying or maybe some other evil deeds. Just that humans and other mammals are the perfect hosts (aka suckers) for them.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I agree the Wuhan lab is the prime suspect in the creation of the virus, but it has yet to be 100% proven because China won't allow the necessary investigation to take place.

We also don't know the reason the Chinese scientists working in the Winnipeg lab and their Chinese students were escorted out of the lab by the RCMP.

They reappeared in China at the Wuhan lab, which has close ties to the Chinese military.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> I agree the Wuhan lab is the prime suspect in the creation of the virus, but it has yet to be 100% proven because China won't allow the necessary investigation to take place.


 ... the Chinese government (PRC) had invited the WHO experts to the Wuhan lab awhile back (like more than a year ago) but them experts came to an "in-conclusion" of the virus being leaked from the lab. The virus was never created in the lab but was brought in to be examined and dabbled, just like Ebola and every deadly viruses that man like to play with. The question was it leaked from the lab, even accidentally?



> We also don't know the reason the Chinese scientists working in the Winnipeg lab and their Chinese students were escorted out of the lab by the RCMP.


 ...we, Canadians, are still waiting for an answer from national security ... so what does the RCMP has to hide in this case, from its citizens?



> They reappeared in China at the Wuhan lab, which has close ties to the Chinese military.


 ...everything in the PRC government has close-ties with the military. You can even say, the PRC government is the military and vice-versa. No different than Russia.

I'm curious does our RCMP ever talk to CSIS?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> I'm curious does our RCMP ever talk to CSIS?


Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't









Canadian government suspends RCMP radio contract with Chinese-owned company


Alexander Cohen, director of communications to Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino, said the suspension of the RCMP-Sinclair contract took effect Thursday




www.theglobeandmail.com


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> At this point I'm just hoping we don't end up with widespread disability in the population.
> 
> Long Covid appears to be reasonably common. If catching Covid multiple times ends up leading to long term fatigue and other chronic problems, then we could be dealing with the disability problems for decades to come.


I'm more concerned with the long term effect of having so many people willing to instantly give up their rights and the rights of all Canadians for a virus that has a 99.995% survival rate for healthy people 60 and under.

What if the next virus has a survival rate of only 99.95%? How many more of our rights are you willing to give away so that you can feel safe? Trudeau is an arrogant wannabe communist and he knows exactly how much the government got away with and next time a coronavirus comes along he'll be ready.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ If you feel you're giving up "your" "rights" for a virus, then feel free to move elsewhere. Or in your case, renounce Canada and claim your other citizenship USA.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Even if your claim is accurate, which I doubt.....a survival rate isn't the benchmark.

A lot of people have long term covid health issues, and the infection caused a lot of economic disruption as people became sick from the infection.

Still today, hospitals are overrun with covid and flu patients, causing long delays in surgeries and other treatments.

The current variant is causing severe sickness among children, and the longer the virus spreads the higher the odds it will mutate into a more dangerous variant.

The latest XBB 1.1.5 variant, known as the Krakken variant is taking hold around the world and the infection rate is very high. It likely won't be the final variant that mutates.

The question is what would have happened or will happen without restrictions in place. Most people believe it would have been a grim scenario.

We may be at the beginning of finding out, since most restrictions are no longer in place.

New COVID variant 'most transmissible' yet detected, says WHO (yahoo.com)


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> Even if your claim is accurate, which I doubt.....a survival rate isn't the benchmark.
> 
> A lot of people have long term covid health issues, and the infection caused a lot of economic disruption as people became sick from the infection.
> 
> ...


Who thought it would have been grim? The experts that were wrong all along and who also lied to us? I was more correct than our government experts. They don't deserve our trust anymore.

Covid itself caused very little economic disruption; it was government policies that wrecked the economy.

Hospitals have been overcrowded for decades, long before Covid.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> The question is what would have happened or will happen without restrictions in place. Most people believe it would have been a grim scenario.
> 
> We may be at the beginning of finding out, since most restrictions are no longer in place.


Finland and Norway didn't lockdown and seemed to manage. Maybe they got better natural immunity. Continents like Africa aren't vaccinated

I got vaccinated before any Canadians did but I had to sign a lot of forms accepting the risk of experimental mRNA. That's because there is a risk to experimental vaccines

Meanwhile 38-year old professional NFL player dies of heart attack in his sleep



> Nwaneri's wife found him unresponsive in a bedroom around 1 a.m ET, according to West Lafayette police and Tippecanoe County Coroner Carrie Costello. Preliminary results indicate a possible heart attack pending toxicology results. An autopsy performed Monday did not indicate any signs of foul play.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Scholefield was paralyzed after receiving a Pfizer shot. He's one of about 1,300 claims submitted under the Vaccine Injury Support Program.












https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-vaccine-injuries-compensation-canada-1.6704655


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ That is very unfortunate as with the other recipients disabled by the vaccine. 

However, it is good to know that there's some support in the form of compensation for these legit claimants although the program VSIP is very frustrating (understatement) to deal with. From the details of the article, it seems like it's is a tad better than dealing with WSIB.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Even if your claim is accurate, which I doubt.....a survival rate isn't the benchmark.


Actually survival rate is the benchmark.
Coronaviruses generally have a very high survival rate, so we generally ignore them.
SARS had a very low survival rate so we freaked out.
COVID19 looked like a pretty high fatality rate, but now that we know it has a high survival rate again.. not much of an issues.




> Still today, hospitals are overrun with covid and flu patients, causing long delays in surgeries and other treatments.


Flu season is winding down.



> The question is what would have happened or will happen without restrictions in place. Most people believe it would have been a grim scenario.


And for a while most people thought the earth was flat.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Even if your claim is accurate, which I doubt.....a survival rate isn't the benchmark.
> 
> A lot of people have long term covid health issues, and the infection caused a lot of economic disruption as people became sick from the infection.
> 
> ...


 ... yep, looks like a Covid19 redux is happening in PRC. And just a matter of time before it crosses the oceans to be "shared". 

"*We are all in it together*" can't ring any truer.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

This is from New York Times (the latest) but only can get a free read on Yahoo news.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/health-experts-warily-eye-xbb-152441569.html



> _By Carl Zimmer, Sun, January 8, 2023
> 
> Three years into the pandemic, the coronavirus continues to impress virus experts with its swift evolution.
> 
> ...


 ... hmmm.... 27.6% of cases across the USA with this latest variant. I wonder what is the percentage here in Canada. Can't be that far behind ... oh well. We'll figure how bad it will go when people are dropping dead like flies.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I knew a young guy on our ball team who woke up one morning with GB disease. One day playing in the outfield and the next day he couldn't walk.

How do they know the vaccine is causing the illnesses ? A lot of people got the vaccine so it could just be coincidence.

I am happy they are getting financial support, but not sure I would agree the vaccine is to blame without some hard evidence of a link.

A lot of people were vaccinated numerous times, and no doubt some of them had some kind of medical problem in the days and weeks after the vaccinations.

Without hard proof of a relationship between the vaccine and these different health problems, it seem premature to assume the vaccine is solely responsible.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> How do doctors know that people are getting sick from the vaccine and not just normal causes ?


It works the same way with Covid. Except that people who may have died from the experimental vaccine that also test positive for Covid are counted as Covid deaths.

How come no one is trying to separate those deaths so that we know the real numbers?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> This is from New York Times (the latest) but only can get a free read on Yahoo news.
> 
> https://ca.yahoo.com/news/health-experts-warily-eye-xbb-152441569.html
> 
> ... hmmm.... 27.6% of cases across the USA with this latest variant. I wonder what is the percentage here in Canada. Can't be that far behind ... oh well. We'll figure how bad it will go when people are dropping dead like flies.


The experts report the flu outbreaks appear to be fading slowly, but the new covid variant is spreading rapidly and presents new problems.

The biggest fear is for a more dangerous variant to mutate during the widespread of infections.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> It works the same way with Covid. Except that people who may have died from the experimental vaccine that also test positive for Covid are counted as Covid deaths.
> 
> How come no one is trying to separate those deaths so that we know the real numbers?


Maybe they don't and you pays your money and takes your chances. I don't care if people choose not to take the vaccine. 

I just don't want to be around people who are careless about it.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> Maybe they don't and you pays your money and takes your chances. I don't care if people choose not to take the vaccine. I just don't want to be around people who are careless about it.


I didn't pay my money and take my chances. I was told that I had no choice but to take the shot if I wanted to participate in society.

You're still worried about people that didn't take a shot that has been proven to be mostly ineffective after a few short weeks. That's paranoia. 

Take a look at Pfizer's history of lying, altering study data, and bribing doctors. That's far more frightening.


----------



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Holy Christ...

We have a 2023 thread for this?

Y'all realize it was COVID "19", right?
The year is 2023. Time to move on.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

KaeJS said:


> The year is 2023. Time to move on


We will, just as soon as it does.

ltr


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Scholefield was paralyzed after receiving a Pfizer shot. He's one of about 1,300 claims submitted under the Vaccine Injury Support Program.


US is requiring ECG for athletes now

A lot of jobs do (mine does) but athletes typically weren't required to


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> US is requiring ECG for athletes now
> 
> A lot of jobs do (mine does) but athletes typically weren't required to


A covid infection also can cause cardiac symptoms (damage to the heart). Considering how many people have caught covid, I suspect there's a lot of heart damage out there that we don't know about yet.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> A covid infection also can cause cardiac symptoms (damage to the heart). Considering how many people have caught covid, I suspect there's a lot of heart damage out there that we don't know about yet.


Yes

Not everyone gets an ECG regularly. They do for jobs that could kill a lot of people if you had a heart problem. Athletes typically had strong hearts though and didn't need ECGs. Typically the risk were those above 65

New Apple watches have a decent ECG capability considering you can't just get a medical one done (only 1 lead vs 12 lead system according to this Doc)


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> A covid infection also can cause cardiac symptoms (damage to the heart). Considering how many people have caught covid, I suspect there's a lot of heart damage out there that we don't know about yet.


Sounds like approx 1% of the population in most countries is (permanently?) disabled with long COVID symptoms.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> A covid infection also can cause cardiac symptoms (damage to the heart). Considering how many people have caught covid, I suspect there's a lot of heart damage out there that we don't know about yet.


I'd like to know how many people the shot has damaged.

Some people just want to put their head in the sand and blame all heart conditions on Covid. If someone had told me 2 years ago that today people would be defending Big Pharma I would have thought they were crazy.

But here we are.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> I'd like to know how many people the shot has damaged.
> 
> Some people just want to put their head in the sand and blame all heart conditions on Covid. If someone had told me 2 years ago that today people would be defending Big Pharma I would have thought they were crazy.
> 
> But here we are.


Do you now, or have you ever, taken medications?


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

james4beach said:


> A covid infection also can cause cardiac symptoms (damage to the heart). Considering how many people have caught covid, I suspect there's a lot of heart damage out there that we don't know about yet.


Actually no, that has been debunked in multiple studies. Long covid doesn't cause damage to the heart.
Acute covid can, but long covid doesn't.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Do you now, or have you ever, taken medications?


Why are you asking that? That has nothing to do with the shot, but if I answered yes then you'll say "Aha!!" as if you made a point.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Do you now, or have you ever, taken medications?


Have you now, or have you ever, taken an experimental vaccine approved for emergency purposes only, other than for Covid?

Have you ever been refused entry into any place because you refused to take and experimental vaccine approved for government purposes only, other than for Covid?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Maybe they don't and you pays your money and takes your chances. I don't care if people choose not to take the vaccine.
> 
> *I just don't want to be around people who are careless about it.*


 ... even then they come looking for you. This is about "their version of sharing".


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Sounds like approx 1% of the population in most countries is (permanently?) disabled with long COVID symptoms.


Do you have any independent studies that prove this? How do they differentiate between long Covid and vaccine injury? Are they even checking? Some people will believe long Covid without any substantial proof or any indication of the real severity.

Prediction: Big Pharma will come up with a new drug for long Covid and make billions more in profit. Most people will ask no questions and take whatever they're told.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

An NFL player pretended to give chest compressions after another player suffered a cardiac arrest 🤷‍♂️ 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1612215523739041794
Also god gave you 2 arms for vaccinations


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611954549010358273


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ So are you following sags now to get your daily newsfeed? 

Btw, that is one huge mountain goat ! The video is so clear.  ...


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Why are you asking that? That has nothing to do with the shot, but if I answered yes then you'll say "Aha!!" as if you made a point.


I guess you're feeling a bit triggered. You keep on about 'trusting big pharma'... have you 'trusted big pharma' in the past by taking medication?

I'm not aware of having taken emergency use authorization medications or treatments other than the COVID vaccine.

Long COVID was prevalent before vaccines were available or widely deployed. When the long COVID symptoms come following an infection, but not following a vaccination, that seems like a good indication that it is long COVID. I know you will accept as gospel any evidence that supports your preconceived notion that COVID is harmless and that the vaccine is the root of all ills, but reality is a bit more nuanced.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised over long term complications. If influenza was as transmissible as COVID you'd likely see very similar issues. Viruses can mess you up in more ways than one. Inner ear, kidneys, heart, brain, autoimmune, neurological, etc. Can trigger things like anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc.

The problem I have with the government (those making medical decision) is they don't trust the public to make their own informed decisions, so they often only tell you part of the story. This goes against the basic concepts of medicine. Acceptable to a degree in an emergency situation (early days), completely unacceptable now and over the past 1-2 years. Too many professionals with their head in the sand.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

andrewf said:


> I guess you're feeling a bit triggered. You keep on about 'trusting big pharma'... have you 'trusted big pharma' in the past by taking medication?


I trust many medications with a long term track record. Most of them have decades of reliable data. You're trying to compare those medications to a brand new shot with no track record and hidden data.

Why? Are you not capable of differentiating?


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

As I said earlier, it only took 2 years for grown and supposedly intelligent people to start defending Big Pharma.

It's no wonder why the communists in the education system start indoctrinating children in schools.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> As I said earlier, it only took 2 years for grown and supposedly intelligent people to start defending Big Pharma.
> 
> It's no wonder why the communists in the education system start indoctrinating children in schools.


It's not 'big pharma' that decide which drugs are approved for use. It is regulators. Unhinged ravings about communism notwithstanding.

I'm assuming you think Trump was a terrible President for his instrumental role in the speedy development of the vaccines via his 'Operation Warp Speed' initiative?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Synergy said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised over long term complications. If influenza was as transmissible as COVID you'd likely see very similar issues. Viruses can mess you up in more ways than one. Inner ear, kidneys, heart, brain, autoimmune, neurological, etc. Can trigger things like anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc.


Good point and yes, influenza (and other infectious illnesses) are dangerous. To give another example, the Epstein-Barr which causes mono, can also be very dangerous.

An infection with Epstein-Barr is associated with several other chronic conditions and a recent huge study (of 10 million people over 20 years!) provided strong evidence that the virus may be a cause or trigger for multiple sclerosis (MS).

All the more reason to avoid catching infectious diseases whenever possible. It's why this winter, I've been trying to be careful to avoid catching either the flu or Covid, both of which are widespread.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This Covid thing is a real nuisance.

I was reading an article about a BC man who suffered inflammatory damage to his nerves after receiving a vaccination. He is permanently paralyzed. The medical condition is known as ADEM.

Then I did some more reading, and Covid (and other respiratory) infections like measles sometimes cause ADEM as well. It seems that severe respiratory infections can affect the brain. Severe Covid infections can also cause ADEM, resulting in some damage to the brain, spinal cord, with potential paralysis or death.

And the vaccine can cause the same in rare cases. Yikes.


----------



## OneSeat (Apr 15, 2020)

I just Googled ADEM and got several pages of info but no mention of Covid. So I Googled 'ADEM and Covid' and also got several pages of info. **** sapiens is complicated and no one understands everything. Thank you James for extending our information.


----------



## OneSeat (Apr 15, 2020)

OneSeat said:


> **** sapiens


Whatever next - read "h o m o sapiens" - is the English language going to be illegal soon?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Yes and you're gonna to be banned if you repeat that ... LMAO.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OneSeat said:


> Whatever next - read "h o m o sapiens" - is the English language going to be illegal soon?


That's actually the objective. I'd say literally, but literally doesn't mean literally anymore either. Nor does it mean literature, because I don't think people can read these days.

Ban what you can say (hate speech), force you to say what they want (ie the pronoun controversy)
Redefine words constantly to mean things that they didn't before. ie by the new standard racism isn't discrimination based on race, it's some nonsense about power and status and oppression that boils down to some minorities are racist, while other minorities can't be racist, irrespective of the actual acts.

Remember Apple was about to roll out tech to screen your device for inappropriate content, until they got backlash. Who doesn't have a Alexa/Siri/Google Big brother?

1984, just 40 years behind schedule


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> And the vaccine can cause the same in rare cases. Yikes.


?
This was fully disclosed back at the beginning, don't you remember?
There were many "anti-vaxxers" who expressed these concerns.
- FYI, despite these risks, I got vaccinated, even with Astra Zeneca, right before they pulled it for being "too dangerous". 
- Also "too dangerous" was somewhere around an order of magnitude less dangerous than birth control pills.

Just like the "China virus" etc. The powers that be are trying to control the narrative, free speech is more important and more at risk than at any time in recent history.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

OneSeat said:


> I just Googled ADEM and got several pages of info but no mention of Covid. So I Googled 'ADEM and Covid' and also got several pages of info. **** sapiens is complicated and no one understands everything. Thank you James for extending our information.


Well I hope it helps.

To be clear, both infectious diseases *and* vaccines can cause (very rarely) these conditions like ADEM, or heart & stroke problems, or many other problems.

So it becomes a question of relative risks of the two. I don't know where that points us today, if omicron really continues to be a relatively mild disease (as it is right now).

It's confusing and I wish we had better information about the relative risks.



MrMatt said:


> This was fully disclosed back at the beginning, don't you remember?


Yes, I know it was known. Any vaccination can cause ADEM, or other things like Guillan-Barre syndrome etc. I'm sure you would agree with me that the question is about *relative risks. *The regular flu shot could potentially cripple you as well. I still take the flu shot pretty often.

What is the incident rate of these severe problems after Covid-Omicron, and what is the incident rate from vaccination? Risk versus reward.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

*FDA vaccine advisers 'disappointed' and 'angry' that early data about new Covid-19 booster shot wasn't presented for review last year.*









FDA vaccine advisers 'disappointed' and 'angry' that early data about new Covid-19 booster shot wasn't presented for review last year | CNN


Some vaccine advisers to the federal government say they're "disappointed" and "angry" that government scientists and the pharmaceutical company Moderna didn't present a set of infection data on the company's new Covid-19 booster during meetings last year when the advisers discussed whether the...




www.cnn.com


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Synergy said:


> *FDA vaccine advisers 'disappointed' and 'angry' that early data about new Covid-19 booster shot wasn't presented for review last year.*
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/11/health/moderna-bivalent-transparency/index.htmAnyone


More and more lies are coming to the surface every day. People that dared to speak up a year ago risked losing their job and would have been banned from social media for saying things that have been true all along.

If you're still defending the experts that lied to you, please do yourself a favour and find a more reliable source. Your BS isn't wanted.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Is this referring to the speed of rolling out the bivalent booster? That was one of my hesitations about getting it, actually.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Is this referring to the speed of rolling out the bivalent booster? That was one of my hesitations about getting it, actually.


You know there's issues when the FDA themselves are getting frustrated! The data that was not presented to the FDA suggested that the booster was no better than the original vaccine. Their conclusions and recommendations would not likely have changed as a result of all the limitations - lack of blinding, small subject base, no randomization, etc. It's the lack of transparency that is concerning.


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Big pharma needed 5bln from taxpayers. Don't question it you science denier. Unacceptable behavior - you need to lose your job


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I had an encouraging discussion with someone I met recently, a nurse from Australia (who now works in Canada). She worked in Melbourne hospitals when the pandemic started, in 2020 and 2021. Amazingly she never caught Covid until she came to Canada, where Covid was more rampant and uncontrolled.

She thinks she caught it on a crowded bus, by the way. Keep in mind that she worked in Emergency with infectious Covid patients all over the place, never caught it, and then eventually caught it on a bus in Vancouver.

Even though Australia had it very mild by global standards, she said working in the hospitals was horrific. People were dying all over the place, they were flooded with too many patients, the staff were getting sick. If it was that bad in Australia, at such low prevalence rate, imagine how bad it was in Europe and especially the USA.

She commented that the Delta strain was scary. When the pandemic started, there had been a perception that "this is just an old person's disease" but they saw more and more young people come in over time. She said it got really bad during Delta when very young people were dying, which really shook up everyone. At this point she pointed to me and said "I've seen men younger and healthier than you end up on oxygen, then die".

But she said everything changed with omicron. The disease has definitely become milder and they aren't seeing young people getting very sick any more.

Her opinion today is that once vaccinated, risks from Covid don't have to be front of mind. She works with a vulnerable population and she says she currently is more concerned about influenza than Covid... the flu has been very severe this year and hits people very hard.

It's not that Covid is gone or harmless, but rather that *Covid is about as bad as the flu right now*. And she emphasizes, the flu is pretty bad! She wishes people took influenza more seriously.

But hopefully we're past the days where Covid is a uniquely dangerous threat, especially now that everyone has some hybrid exposure/immunity.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

james4beach said:


> She works with a vulnerable population and she says she currently is more concerned about influenza than Covid... the flu has been very severe this year and hits people very hard.


Queensway-Carleton Hospital sees busiest day in 47-year history

_"Tuesday, January 10 was the busiest day in QCH’s 47-year history. We had 361 admitted patients, 32 waiting to be admitted in the ED, and were at 113 per cent occupancy."
The Queensway Carleton Hospital is funded for 275 beds, but has 361 admitted patients. The hospital says it is currently running an additional 56 beds in a renovated retirement home, 15 beds in a renovated waiting room at the hospital, and has set up the "equivalent of an entire inpatient unit" in the emergency department._

It appears our health care system just isn't equipped to handle any type of emergency or even provide the population with emergency care during flu season. I have read several cases where people have died waiting in emergency wards in the last week. 

ltr


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> It appears our health care system just isn't equipped to handle any type of emergency or even provide the population with emergency care during flu season. I have read several cases where people have died waiting in emergency wards in the last week.


And you know what? My friend here is an Australian nurse with 15 years of experience. She's seeking permanent residency in Canada and has submitted paperwork to get licensed in Canada.

She's itching to get into the hospitals and start working, but it's been nearly a year and the government won't let her (yet). A native English speaker, educated in Australia, 15 years of experience, and a postgraduate degree in a specialty area.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I had an encouraging discussion with someone I met recently, a nurse from Australia (who now works in Canada). She worked in Melbourne hospitals when the pandemic started, in 2020 and 2021. Amazingly she never caught Covid until she came to Canada, where Covid was more rampant and uncontrolled.
> 
> She thinks she caught it on a crowded bus, by the way. Keep in mind that she worked in Emergency with infectious Covid patients all over the place, never caught it, and then eventually caught it on a bus in Vancouver.
> 
> ...


 .. it's okay. No one really dies from a flu these days. Besides how can you take it seriously when medical experts aren't and the "fact" is it's still a coronavirus.

Like I said before, attention will be paid only when people are dropping dead like flies or we get a Covid19 redux. In the meantime, better gorge as much and as fast on those holiday cocktails.

Didn't you hear right now, it's time to nurse the hangovers ice-fishing on Georgian Bay for Public Health (in Ontario). Call back in February when they'll be open half-days.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> I had an encouraging discussion with someone I met recently, a nurse from Australia (who now works in Canada). She worked in Melbourne hospitals when the pandemic started, in 2020 and 2021. Amazingly she never caught Covid until she came to Canada, where Covid was more rampant and uncontrolled.
> 
> She thinks she caught it on a crowded bus, by the way. Keep in mind that she worked in Emergency with infectious Covid patients all over the place, never caught it, and then eventually caught it on a bus in Vancouver.
> 
> ...


Another anecdotal "she thinks" story from someone that James just met that exactly fits his way of thinking. He comes up with these stories on a regular basis.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HappilyRetired said:


> Another anecdotal "she thinks" story from someone that James just met that exactly fits his way of thinking. He comes up with these stories on a regular basis.


It's true that I probably tend to meet people with similar values to my own. That happens to most people by the way, we tend to roll in circles with people like us.

But I thought you would approve of this kind of message, that covid is basically indistinguishable from the flu now.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> It's true that I probably tend to meet people with similar values to my own. That happens to most people by the way, we tend to roll in circles with people like us.
> 
> But I thought you would approve of this kind of message, that covid is basically indistinguishable from the flu now.


 ... HR will never approve that kind of message until he gets his theory blasting out that (annual) flu-shots can give you cardiac arrests as they're promoted by big pharmas and health care workers.

I can attest that your friend had caught Covid on a public bus, most likely off guard without her mask given other passengers would be more than happy to "share their love" aka infections, with her.


----------

