# Saving from Poverty



## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

Hi everyone! My name is Julia and I'm hoping to get a bit of advice on my unique situation.

I'm currently on Social Assistance because I couldn't get work. I have PT work now, but it doesn't pay enough to get off SA. I want to take control of my finances and be able to save, but I can only save 499$ before I get kicked off SA. I also have debt (credit card and student loans) and I've done what I can. (Paid 35$ for low interest on my credit card, applied for repayment assistance) I've also set up automatic transfers every two weeks on my pay of 25$ to a savings account that I cannot access unless I went into a bank branch. I also have an automatic payment set up for the min. amount on my credit card. I do everything that I should, like make a budget and try to follow it, keep my receipts, use the envelope method etc. Is there any advice anyone has out there for me?
I am currently estranged from my family, but I have a stepfather that helps out now and again. 

(NB. I'm in training right now, so getting another job is not really feasible right now, and a lot of that training is paid for by SA [all 522$ worth])

Thanks~!


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Hi Julia. Just read through your post and I'm not sure what type of advice you're looking for. Sounds like you have plans to get FT work after your training course is completed, and to get off of Social Assistance. You've also set up a regimented budgeting, and a savings plan of $25 bi-weekly (not easy I'm sure when you're on SA). This structured approach will bode well for you when you get FT work.

Perhaps there are others here that can provide more info, and how it relates to those on SA. Good luck!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hello Julia

what a touching story. I'm sure everyone will keep their fingers crossed for you. And i don't believe your situation is *unique,* i think there are many young people who do feel overwhelmed by life from time to time. As a matter of fact there are many older folks who also feel overwhelmed from time to time.

the wonderful thing is that you are keeping your chin up & doing everything in your power to move up as you move ahead.

i imagine the reason you're keeping a savings account open while struggling with credit card debt is because you need a small emergency fund. So the arrangement seems fine. If you used all your savings towards your credit card debt, you'd have no emergency flotation device whatsoever.

you have indicated a $499 ceiling on your savings account imposed by the nabobs who designed the social assistance. So i think this fact is sending a message to you. The message says that at this point in your life, the right thing to do is to pay down your credit card debt while keeping only the modest amount permitted in savings.

later, when full time employment appears & you have a more robust income, will be the time to work on real savings. But not now  (although i know you'd like to)

are you OK with your housing costs, are they as low as you can reasonably arrange. For transport, i take it you are strictly city bus & metro, or perhaps you have a bicycle as well. These will be fine for the time being, imho.

the best way out would appear to be a full time job in the field for which you are being trained. Could you perhaps tell us a bit about this, including how you like the work for which you are being groomed.

please stay in touch & take very good care of yourself in the meantime.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Actually I do have some advice, that you may already know. I've recently started using freecycle.org to downsize some of our items. From what I've seen there are some good quality appliances, clothing, etc being offered for free on this site. Check it out to see if it'll work for you, and in your area. If you want more information, please send me a PM.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

I second the call for more information, but it seems you are making the most of a bad situation. 

Pay off debt as fast as humanly possible, if savings in a bank works against you ($499 limit) build an emergency fund of cash if you can put it in a safe place.

Your immediate goals should be to increase earnings as quickly as possible. Training is the right way to go, but see if you can add any sidejobs.

Best of luck and I'd love to see your progress.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Sometimes you can't do everything at once. So once you finish your training and begin full time work, focus on doing what you can and keeping the debt as low as possible.

When you start working, continue to live frugally as you have been and get rid of the debt, save up an emergency fund, and re evaluate some of your financial goals.

You seem motivated to turn things around.

All the best.


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

would you believe if i told you to enjoy it?
things are alot simplier (albiet more work) when you are poor.

I think most of us went thru a time when we were living paycheck to paycheck and owed more than we had.

I remember it fondly as you didnt have many lasting worries, living day to day, and your friends were really your friends.

I hope to get back there when i retire and have nothing left to prove.


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## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your encouraging words.

My housing costs are very reasonable right now (plus I get to live with my partner!) and I'm quite happy living with him. I do also take transit, but biking is not really an option for me as we have too many crazy drivers who hate cyclists!
I'm currently employed under a SA initiative through the city that gives part time one year contracts to those who are on SA. I work 21 hours a week at 12$ an hour. My contract will be up in June, so plenty of time until then. I'm taking all the free training available to me, plus a paid course which SA paid for and I'm taking all opportunities for networking and mentoring. Most of my training that's taking up a lot of my time away from work will be done in about November (great thing is, my boss is really supportive of me taking training!) after November, I will be freed up more to look for more part time work.

I have a two year diploma in Child and Youth Care Work and Addictions Counseling, but currently being trained to do housing support (housing acquisition, stabilization and eviction prevention- and most of my skills are transferable anyway). I enjoy the work I do, but maybe, I'm a bit in a rush to make sure that I'm doing everything that I can to ensure my success. 

@mind_business Thank you for your advice. I've already looked into freecycle, and as I have recently had a big move from halfway across the country to where I am currently living, I find myself not really in much need of items at the moment. I do once in a while peruse but I find myself living quite a minimalist lifestyle right now in terms of furniture.

@Dmoney I've thought about how I might market my skills for odd jobs in my field, but it's really difficult without the contacts. I was looking into offering my services to do in house workshops for organizations on whatever topic that I might be knowledgeable about. Most people have their own connections who are usually more experienced than myself.

I guess the kind of advice I'm looking for (to answer mind_business) is really for anything that I'm missing. Financial education for me was quite lacking while living at home and in school so I want to make sure I haven't missed anything.

Thanks again everyone for your well wishes and I hope to enjoy my stay with you all in these forums!


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

I have to be honest, I'd much prefer having the 'problems' of the rich.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

daddybigbucks: I was half-tempted to post that to whitewhine.com. 

I do get what you're saying. I can also look back ten years ago and feel good about how far I've come. But it's only because we're no longer there, and won't be going back there. That doesn't mean it was an enjoyable period at the time by any stretch of the imagination. And I certainly prefer the silly problems I face today compared to the struggles I used to face.

For the OP, congrats on getting your finances in order. The biggest step is often just starting, and you've made a very good start. As others have suggested, some additional numbers might help give us a better idea and help us think of some other ideas.

You mentioned the CC debt and the automatic payment for the minimum, but depending on the amount, it may only go towards interest and not make much of a dent in principle. Again, numbers would be helpful here along with interest rate. You mentioned you paid $35 for a lower interest rate. Was that to get a different card with an annual fee or something else?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

daddybigbucks said:


> would you believe if i told you to enjoy it?
> things are alot simplier (albiet more work) when you are poor.


There's a big difference between living paycheque to paycheque and being poor. While it's true that a poor person in Canada is rich beyond the wildest dreams of a poor person in Somalia, poverty is relative and is never really enjoyable.

"The person who cannot afford a television or newspaper is not only barred from the life of the community, but is even detached from knowing what is happening in it." -- A.C. Grayling.

"Short of genius, a rich man cannot imagine poverty." -- Charles Péguy

"The rich man may never get into heaven, but the poor are already serving their time in hell." - Alexander Chase


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

brad said:


> There's a big difference between living paycheque to paycheque and being poor. While it's true that a poor person in Canada is rich beyond the wildest dreams of a poor person in Somalia, poverty is relative and is never really enjoyable.
> 
> "The person who cannot afford a television or newspaper is not only barred from the life of the community, but is even detached from knowing what is happening in it." -- A.C. Grayling.
> 
> ...


Mother Theresa said that the poorest kids in India were better off than the middle class kids in USA.

I also don't agree with your quotes and don't know the people that said them.

its hard to discuss a topic like this on a bullboard, but i'm just saying that struggling in the beginning is a part of life. Just like getting your heart broken to find true love. It has to happen unless you believe in arranged marriages.

Struggling is not something you should avoid or depend on assistance to get thru. I also think its where you get humble and real.

I know Julia is using the word poor, (and i dont know her situation so im assuming) but i really just think she is transiting into an adult and is just struggling. 

I dont want to take this topic further off tangent but just wanted to explain my words earlier. But its very hard considering we all seem to have different opinions of what Julia's definition of poor is.


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## GoGoGo (Sep 8, 2011)

I think it's great that you're taking advantage of all the training opportunities; that will serve you well once you start looking for full time work again. 

It would be helpful to know which province you're in; the rules and resources are different for each one!

Be sure to also take advantage of all the other resources outside of SA that may be available to you: there are various non-profit agencies that can help with job hunting, resumes, having clothes to interview in, etc. Sometimes you have to talk to a few people and dig a bit to find all the things that you could access.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Just because a person is rich does not make them immune to having problems.
I know of a couple people who are "rich,wealthy" and they both are miserable,one is a alcholic,has a horriable family life,workaholic,no personality andgenerally could not give a **** about anyone but himself.There are happy rich people of course,but its a mistake to assume just because someone is well off they are atomatically happy,Ive know quite a few "poor" people who are unbealivable happy also.Some people vaule different things that the almighty dollar cant give you.-course i would rather be well off than poor thou.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

donald: I don't think anyone was claiming money made anyone immune to problems. Yes, there are happy poor people and sad rich people. 

But generally speaking, money certainly opens up more options for people, which in turn gives people more control over their lives. I'm not saying people make the most of those options and we can always find exceptions to anything, but overall I can't think of any problems that are easier to deal with when you're also struggling financially. It's like an extra burden to any issues one might face.


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## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

@financialnoob I paid the "annual membership" to lower my interest rate on my card from 19.5% to 12.9%

Credit limit is 1000$, had the card since I was in university (about four or five years ago now, back then it was only 600$ limit) Right now I'm carrying a balance of about 1040$ but going to put down 75$ tomorrow.

I work in Toronto, Ontario.

I think I should clarify what I consider for me, to be poor, as daddybigbucks said, I haven't really mentioned my definition, and it's unique to everyone.

For me, poor is spending more than 30% of my income on housing (I'm spending more like 40% on housing), making less than 20k a year (I believe that is the unofficial official poverty line, but I might be wrong, could be closer to 18k). I also wouldn't be able to afford my medication if I wasn't on assistance.

That's the bare bones absolute minimum for me. If I wasn't spending more than 30% of my income on housing and making a tad more than 20k a year, I would say that I'm in decent shape.

The 'extra' that I don't have that also makes me, not poor, but financially vulnerable, would be that I don't have an emergency fund for three months (which would be close to 2200$ give or take).

To add a little more detail (and look, not asking for sympathy, but just to give an idea of what situation I am coming from) I lived in a group home for the last two years of high school and moved out shortly before my 18th birthday. I moved out because of a necessity, and not really because I was ready. That was about five years ago.

While you might be right, daddybigbucks, that maybe I'm just young and transitioning and struggling, I think it should also be taken into account that I'm not exactly doing this on equal level with a lot of my peers, or even close to what the 'ideal' would be. (i.e. having family to help with transitioning, being able to move back home if I needed to etc.)


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I like your attitude, workingpoor, and there's no doubt in my mind that you'll succeed in working your way up to a good, solid, middle-class lilfestyle. In spite of the problems you've grown up with, I don't detect any trace of self-pity or resentment, just a determination to better yourself, and that will take you a long way. Best of luck to you, and keep us posted.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hey, working, great to hear from you. You deserve every bit of the applause & affection being sent your way from this forum.

i can't help but notice how all your skills & diplomas & present training seem to be pointing towards something like working with street kids. I think that right now, today, you yourself would be able to work up an effective workshop for young people about how to live on a shoestring. Scoping everything from housing to budgeting to living clean.

you've noticed that we don't have very many practical tips for you, other than one, which i'll get to in a minute. The reason we don't have tips is because you've done such an ace job yourself of whittling your financial problems down to a size that is manageable. A workshop presented by a young person who can pass on her skills to other youngsters is much more effective, imho, than one more formally taught by licensed teacher with an armload of credentials.

it's great that you have such excellent language skills. Nice, graceful, fluent style. Good grammar & spelling. All this is such a big advantage !

re the practical tip: this appears higher up in the thread. About savings. Someone mentioned that, if you don't feel the $499 personal savings maximum allowed by the SA program is sufficient, and especially if you would like to have a little more emergency cash on hand, you could keep the extra as plain cash, provided you do have a safe storage space. Or perhaps your friend could keep it for you in his bank account.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

@financialnoob,i was just make a broad statement,there are def less problems being comfortable,wealthy,not worrying about bills ect,but there are unique challenges for wealthy people.

The golden handcuffs_you find you meet your goals you set out for,maybe you ve put the blinders on and find yourself succeding @ the line you choose,you get on treadmill where your always trying to maintain a level,expectations that are throw on you are constantly thrust apon you,deadlines responsibilties ect.

Once you reach a plateau its hard not to reach for the next,its a contemptment thing.Your self worth can get intertwined with your standing and something out of your control can affect you.Thats all i meant.


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

workingpoor said:


> While you might be right, daddybigbucks, that maybe I'm just young and transitioning and struggling, I think it should also be taken into account that I'm not exactly doing this on equal level with a lot of my peers, or even close to what the 'ideal' would be. (i.e. having family to help with transitioning, being able to move back home if I needed to etc.)


I agree with humble_pie that i think your maturity is beyond your years by your statements on here.
And while its true you arent on an even level with other peers, I think the *learning thru living *you are doing now will pay huge dividends later on.

stay positive and i know you'll be a success.


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## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> i can't help but notice how all your skills & diplomas & present training seem to be pointing towards something like working with street kids. I think that right now, today, you yourself would be able to work up an effective workshop for young people about how to live on a shoestring. Scoping everything from housing to budgeting to living clean.
> 
> ......
> 
> A workshop presented by a young person who can pass on her skills to other youngsters is much more effective, imho, than one more formally taught by licensed teacher with an armload of credentials.


I would love to do some workshops, but I'm not sure how to do advertising, or how to determine how much to charge. Otherwise, I would definitely do it.

Thanks again to everyone, I love getting feedback!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

working re workshops i don't have this expertise nor do i live in your city, so i'm not knowledgeable about its social services for youth.

so these are just random thoughts ottomh. I think that workshops for street kids would not pay right now, so if you are looking to earn $$ pronto it's probably a better idea to think hourly service centres such as call centres, food outlets, stores, etc.

what such workshops would accomplish is look super-fantastic on your resume.

it's necessary to have a detailed, concrete workshop proposal before marketing can be carried out. Working up the proposal is a big challenge. A lot of work imho.

issues such as: how long (an hour is not enuf time imho.) And how many kids.

what topics would you address.

would you be alone or would it liven things up to have a 2nd person, perhaps someone like a loan counsellor from a credit card company.

what would you give the kids as takeaways. Please, not those endless photocopied pages that they like to pass out at conferences. These are such a colossal waste. What about something like a pretty flowering plant in a pot. This might even be your logo. The "Grow a New Life" workshop. (ok maybe one piece of paper ... the applicaton to change the credit card from a high-interest account to a low-interest account)

i don't know about your present training, but in some courses working up a proposal for a life skills workshop for street kids could count as credit for the course. Plus, in such a case you'd have the ongoing expertise & supervision of the teacher.

re fees, i hesitate to say this, but here goes. You might have to start out volunteering the workshop. You'd pick a host organization that you know already, where you feel comfortable. Community centre, church, school board special services, hospital or medical clinic, government youth or housing services, wherever seems homiest to you. They'd help you publicize, or we could discuss later. At the workshop, pass out evaluations & later read & notice what the kids have to say.

eventually, you could charge $$. But first, you'd have to establish the quality of the workshop itself. As i mentioned, its chief value to you, apart from the experience, is to look fantastic on your resume, not necessarily bring in a fortune in fees.

i'm being casual about the branding, the marketing & the publicity because this is what i know best. First, it's crucial to have a quality product to sell. Marketing comes later imho.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

workingpoor: If there's one thing I'd try to prioritize, it's paying down the CC debt by more than just the minimum each month. 

This calculator shows you how much interest you're paying and how long it will take to pay off using the minimum vs. a fixed payment. Using some approximate numbers based on what you provided, the minimum approach will take 223 months to pay off and you'd pay an extra $1,459 in interest (assuming the bare minimum of 1.5%, or $16/month payment). 

You mentioned you had $25 every two weeks being diverted into savings. If you were to spend that $50/month to pay down the credit card, you'd be done in only 24 months, and pay only $144 in interest. Huge difference. 

At the same time, I understand the need for savings. Maybe you could divert one savings transfer to the CC. If your minimum is around $16/month, then $25/month may not seem like much. But it would reduce the time from 223 months to 56 months, and reduce the interest from $1,459 to $346. You'd be amazed at what a few extra dollars can do when it comes to CC debt.

donald: That's a fair enough point, but just seems a bit out of place in this thread is all.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I was just relaying off brads,good luck op,why dont you try a church for contacts?You will find all sorts of contacts in your line,thats where i would go if i were you.


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## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

donald said:


> I was just relaying off brads,good luck op,why dont you try a church for contacts?You will find all sorts of contacts in your line,thats where i would go if i were you.


Hmm, I'll think about that.

In other news, my boss just decided last night to call me in for a random casual/relief position (as a counselor) which meant more work and more money, and on top of that, she's deciding to put me on the casual list in case we ever need shifts filled! The pay difference is about 5.25$ an hour!


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

That's great Julia. Hopefully you can get a lot of extra shifts. You also mentioned earlier that your training was done in November and that you'd be freed up to look for other jobs at that time. Perhaps you could consider applying for some retail ones right now? 

Most retailers are hiring for seasonal work for the holiday rush, and are spending the next month or so training people, but they don't necessarily have a lot of hours for those people to work which is actually perfect for you. It might be a hectic few weeks to balance a few shifts with your existing schedule and training, but when things pick up mid-November/December, you'd be trained and able to take on more shifts for the next few months.


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## Charles Dickinson (Aug 10, 2011)

I read your post and I'm a bit confused about your problem. But I wanna know, what are your plans, I mean saving money is really good specially if you have plans ahead of you. I think no saving is too small if you start from now. So goodluck.


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## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks financialnoob, I'll look into it.

The problem I was describing Charles, is that I'm on social assistance, new to my field of work, living in poverty and trying to save money, and reduce my debt on a very fixed income, plus I've only been in Toronto a year...

I was just looking for additional advice, to see if there was anything I could be doing that I missed.

My plans right now are to save up as much money in my bank as Social Assistance will allow, then save it elsewhere (under my mattress maybe?) and try to save 50$ a month (via automatic transfers from my checking account into my savings every two weeks on my pay) and trying to pay more than the minimum on my CC (current monthly min. is 19$ a month) and I'm also taking a crap load of training for work right now ( 522$+ worth of training) so that hopefully at the end of my contract, I'll be able to score a full time job paying at least 15$ an hour. 
Right now I'm on a P/T contract @12$/hr but also on the on call/casual list to fill in extra shifts as a counselor at work for 17.25$/hr. My end goal is to have my CC paid down, off assistance, and three month emergency fund saved up (approx. 2200$)

After all is said and done, everyone here has been wonderful and supportive, and I thank you, Charles, for your support as well.


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## workingpoor (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks financialnoob, I'll look into it.

The problem I was describing Charles, is that I'm on social assistance, new to my field of work, living in poverty and trying to save money, and reduce my debt on a very fixed income, plus I've only been in Toronto a year...

I was just looking for additional advice, to see if there was anything I could be doing that I missed.

My plans right now are to save up as much money in my bank as Social Assistance will allow, then save it elsewhere (under my mattress maybe?) and try to save 50$ a month (via automatic transfers from my checking account into my savings every two weeks on my pay) and trying to pay more than the minimum on my CC (current monthly min. is 19$ a month) and I'm also taking a crap load of training for work right now ( 522$+ worth of training) so that hopefully at the end of my contract, I'll be able to score a full time job paying at least 15$ an hour. 
Right now I'm on a P/T contract @12$/hr but also on the on call/casual list to fill in extra shifts as a counselor at work for 17.25$/hr. My end goal is to have my CC paid down, off assistance, and three month emergency fund saved up (approx. 2200$)

After all is said and done, everyone here has been wonderful and supportive, and I thank you, Charles, for your support as well.


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