# Retirement Financial Planning



## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi all, in preparation for my upcoming retirement, I have been carefully putting together a very detailed retirement planning spreadsheet which encompasses all aspects of our expected finances in retirement.

Now recently I have discovered Adam Bornn from Parallel Wealth on Youtube. He has produced a ton of videos on retirement planning, and I find him to be very knowledgeable and sensible.

His company provides fee for service financial planning, and I'm wondering if it's worthwhile having him draw up a plan for us. My main hesitation is that I believe I have already accounted for pretty much everything he talks about in my own plan, but then you never know if he can further optimize the plan for us.

The cost for Parallel Wealth to draw up a plan for us would be $4000. Wondering if anyone else here has used Parallel Wealth or another financial planning service. If so, what did it cost, and did you find it to be worthwhile?



https://www.youtube.com/c/ParallelWealth/featured







Financial Planning - Planning 2022







www.parallelwealth.com


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Mookie said:


> Hi all, in preparation for my upcoming retirement, I have been carefully putting together a very detailed retirement planning spreadsheet which encompasses all aspects of our expected finances in retirement.


If you've done the above already there is no need for anything else really.

Edit: Having a second set of eyes on the numbers might be helpful though.



Mookie said:


> The cost for Parallel Wealth to draw up a plan for us would be $4000.


I just skimmed the video and spreadsheet wise he covered the basics. If you have that level of detail (or more) in your planning save yourself the $4k.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We did not need to pay for a plan. It was basic math for us. Pension income less estimated spend. Adjust for inflation, then add a fudge factor. Will our investment income cover the gap???

We did a straight tape on after tax spending for three years prior to retirement. No categories because we did not care. The only thing that mattered to us was the bottom line cash out spend. Captial items separated out.

It was all very nice but retirement changed our plans completely. Sold, traveled, rented for four years, bought a lock and leave home that was much one third the size of our previous six bedroom place. Huge decrease in insurances, taxes, upkeep...everything. Spent that money and more on travel.

I believe that there are some retirement consultants that like to make a bit of a mystery out of it. As we said in my prior business....where there is mystery there is margin.

If you can handle basic math, time value of money calculations, and are willing to do a bit of research you can easily do this yourself. The added advantage...you will learn a great deal in the process. Lots of sample templates on the web.

We did ours on an after tax basis because that is what have to spend. Don't forget to account for any future windfalls like employer termination settlements or inheritances, etc.

Just remember be err on the side of being conservative. Lowball investment returns, assume a higher inflation factor. Then add 10 percent for just in case. You will be fine.

Keep it as a living document and update once a year or if your circumstances or retirement plans change.

Just think...$4k will buy you a cruise or a week in an AI.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

If you have already done most of the work, then it might be only a matter of having a 'fee for service' planner go over the numbers to see if there are fatal flaws with things such as assumptions on investment returns net of fees, inflation, budgetary allowances, etc.....and the range of scenarios considered. A second opinion might be your 'sleep at night' factor. You may wish to peruse this Directory of fee-for-service planners. Directory of Fee-Only Planners | The Value of Simple

I don't know what spreadsheet templates you might have used, e.g. FIRE or perhaps Variable percentage withdrawal - finiki, the Canadian financial wiki to come up with your range of numbers. VPW methodology has a large following both in the USA at Bogleheads and in Canada at Financial Wisdom Forum.

Added: Every plan will need to be re-visited every 3-5 years to see if anything needs to be fine tuned/adjusted. I am 16+ years into retirement and have made adjustments along the way, mostly in the form of higher spending (including gifting) because investment returns have exceeded all expectations and inflation has been unusually low (I assumed 3% as baseline CPI inflation originally).


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

ian said:


> We did not need to pay for a plan. It was basic math for us. Pension income less estimated spend. Adjust for inflation, then add a fudge factor. Will our investment income cover the gap???
> 
> If you can handle basic math, time value of money calculations, and are willing to do a bit of research you can easily do this yourself. The added advantage...you will learn a great deal in the process.
> Keep it as a living document and update once a year or if your circumstances or retirement plans change.
> ...


Thanks Ian, I have definitely learned a lot in building my own financial plan. The basic math is the easy part. The areas where I could potentially see value in a second opinion is in the area of tax planning / optimization, and pension timing. I'm pretty confident that I know what I'm doing in this area as well, but if a second opinion can save me more than $4K in lifetime taxes, then it paid for itself. On the other hand, a cruise sounds more fun than getting my numbers checked - especially if the result is that my numbers were spot on.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> If you have already done most of the work, then it might be only a matter of having a 'fee for service' planner go over the numbers to see if there are fatal flaws with things such as assumptions on investment returns net of fees, inflation, budgetary allowances, etc.....and the range of scenarios considered. A second opinion might be your 'sleep at night' factor. You may wish to peruse this Directory of fee-for-service planners. Directory of Fee-Only Planners | The Value of Simple
> 
> I don't know what spreadsheet templates you might have used, e.g. FIRE or perhaps Variable percentage withdrawal - finiki, the Canadian financial wiki to come up with your range of numbers. VPW methodology has a large following both in the USA at Bogleheads and in Canada at Financial Wisdom Forum.
> 
> Added: Every plan will need to be re-visited every 3-5 years to see if anything needs to be fine tuned/adjusted. I am 16+ years into retirement and have made adjustments along the way, mostly in the form of higher spending (including gifting) because investment returns have exceeded all expectations and inflation has been unusually low (I assumed 3% as baseline CPI inflation originally).


Thanks AltaRed - I will have a look at your list of fee for service planners. The spreadsheet I'm using is my own creation, built from scratch. I have spent a lot of time making sure that it is all encompassing, and that the projections are conservative but reasonable.

I am a big fan of Variable Percentage Withdrawal. I am not using it directly in my spreadsheet, but I do plan to use VPW to guide my spending in retirement. The main challenge will be to trust that we really can spend that much, and still be fine. All of our lives, my wife and I have been savers and investors. Switching to decumulation mode is likely going to be a challenge.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

VPW simply provides the ceiling amount that can be withdrawn. I've never drawn as much as it says I could (nor do I want too) and I think folks sometimes misinterpret intent. I don't know much about the spreadsheet itself because I was retired before this all came about BUT I use the table as a reference point for annual withdrawals. I think the spreadsheet allows you to play with timing of pensions et al. 

One key point of any retirement plan is to take enough qualified pension income starting at age 65 to take advantage of the $2k pension income tax credit. That can be done with a DB pension or RRIFing just enough to draw $2k from the RRIF to fill that 'freebie' credit.

FWIW, I retired in 2006 and tended to be judicious early on because of the switch from accumulation to decumulation. I also went through a divorce AND the financial crisis in 2008. That will definitely affect the plan! Regardless, just like the navigation system in a car..... re-calculate and reset as/when necessary.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Mookie said:


> All of our lives, my wife and I have been savers and investors. Switching to decumulation mode is likely going to be a challenge.


Chances are for life long savers is that you won't spend enough money.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Years ago we purchased an inexpensive retirement program. It was Retireware.

I used it to confirm my back of the envelope math numbers. The package was being used by numerous banks and financial advisors for their clients.

I do not believe that is still on the market but there may be others. It took into account investment returns, time value of money, inflation, tax, future windfalls. Well, everything. And you do use is a single or do a married combo.

I found it very useful for a few years. But when the numbers kept saying we were fine I stopped using it. 

What I really liked about it is that I could do all sorts of whatifs, change percentages, projections, etc in my own time. Not certain if there is anything similar on the market. It has been a long time since I used it.

I was able to cut the numbers countless ways. Lots and lots of spreadsheets and reports if you wanted them.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> VPW simply provides the ceiling amount that can be withdrawn. I've never drawn as much as it says I could (nor do I want too) and I think folks sometimes misinterpret intent. I don't know much about the spreadsheet itself because I was retired before this all came about BUT I use the table as a reference point for annual withdrawals. I think the spreadsheet allows you to play with timing of pensions et al.
> 
> One key point of any retirement plan is to take enough qualified pension income starting at age 65 to take advantage of the $2k pension income tax credit. That can be done with a DB pension or RRIFing just enough to draw $2k from the RRIF to fill that 'freebie' credit.
> 
> FWIW, I retired in 2006 and tended to be judicious early on because of the switch from accumulation to decumulation. I also went through a divorce AND the financial crisis in 2008. That will definitely affect the plan! Regardless, just like the navigation system in a car..... re-calculate and reset as/when necessary.


Yes, I will be using VPW as a guide for my spending ceiling in retirement. Since my wife and I are savers by nature, it will be more about encouraging us that we can in fact safely spend more without the fear of running out of money.

As you've pointed out above, life can be unpredictable. The nice thing about having my own self built financial plan is that I can constantly tweak it at no cost.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

cainvest said:


> Chances are for life long savers is that you won't spend enough money.


Totally agree - but I am going to try my best to break that habit.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

ian said:


> Years ago we purchased an inexpensive retirement program. It was Retireware.
> 
> I used it to confirm my back of the envelope math numbers. The package was being used by numerous banks and financial advisors for their clients.
> 
> ...


Thanks - I just looked up Retireware, and it looks like it has indeed retired. A quick Google search led me to Allswealth, which appears to be something similar to Retireware, but I have my doubts that it will be as detailed or as accurate to my particular situation as my own custom built spreadsheet.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

I watch Adam/Parallel Wealth Youtube videos too. Kind of out of habit now. He definitely seems to cover a broad range of topics: When to take CPP/OAS, typical spending curve in retirement (eg Go-go, slow-go, no-go years), tax optimization, etc.
I've considered paying for a review of my "plan" (not necessarily w/ Adam/Parallel Wealth) but haven't done it. Main reasons would be to provide an outside perspective to maybe identify some blind spots, tax efficiency strategies, and maybe analysis on what the optimal order and timing of withdrawing from each of my accounts including CPP and OAS. 

As you likely know, Adam/Parallel Wealth seems to enter your numbers into some kind of software tool (that he seems to talk about regularly) which spits out an optimal withdrawal strategy. I think it's important to align with what you want from such a consultation against what they are delivering and can deliver. Would you try to adjust your plan to align with what he's analyzing for you? For example, I doubt his tool would be able to account for the hybrid (dividend/ETF) strategy I want to use nor do I think he could talk me out of it. I don't think Adam is an accountant so I'm not sure how in depth he can go wrt tax planning versus referring to an associate, etc. 

As others mention, your situation will likely evolve over time. So are you looking for this to be a one time sanity check before you make the leap into retirement or are you looking to make ongoing assessments/adjustments every 5 years or so?

Just to plug another Youtube channel/podcast: I've been watching Two Sides of FI. It's 2 friends, both around 50yo with one FIRE'd 2 years ago and the other trying to within the next few years. They have some great conversation about financial independence planning, though they are in the US so some of the discussion isn't as relevant like healthcare. 
Here's a link to one video where they talk about hiring a financial advisor to review their portfolios:


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

milhouse said:


> I watch Adam/Parallel Wealth Youtube videos too. Kind of out of habit now. He definitely seems to cover a broad range of topics: When to take CPP/OAS, typical spending curve in retirement (eg Go-go, slow-go, no-go years), tax optimization, etc.
> I've considered paying for a review of my "plan" (not necessarily w/ Adam/Parallel Wealth) but haven't done it. Main reasons would be to provide an outside perspective to maybe identify some blind spots, tax efficiency strategies, and maybe analysis on what the optimal order and timing of withdrawing from each of my accounts including CPP and OAS.
> 
> As you likely know, Adam/Parallel Wealth seems to enter your numbers into some kind of software tool (that he seems to talk about regularly) which spits out an optimal withdrawal strategy. I think it's important to align with what you want from such a consultation against what they are delivering and can deliver. Would you try to adjust your plan to align with what he's analyzing for you? For example, I doubt his tool would be able to account for the hybrid (dividend/ETF) strategy I want to use nor do I think he could talk me out of it. I don't think Adam is an accountant so I'm not sure how in depth he can go wrt tax planning versus referring to an associate, etc.
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts Milhouse, and congratulations on your recent retirement.

My reason for considering Parallel Wealth would be as a one-time sanity check of my own plan, but like you stated, I am not confident that it would really add that much value. My self-built plan is very detailed and tailored to our exact financial situation and future plans. It has actually evolved and been fine tuned over the last decade, and will likely continue to be tweaked even after I finally retire to keep us on track.

I think at this point I've pretty much convinced myself that spending $4000 on a plan is not really going to be worth it for me, but I do really enjoy Adam's videos, and will certainly continue to watch and learn from him.


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