# Taking advantage of Christmas Hampers!??



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

A friend of mine has a husband who is a jerk. Every year he applies for every kind of Christmas Hamper he can even though my friend (his wife) says they don't need to.

At first I thought she was just ashamed of needing help, but I see he does things like takes the gift cards from Safeway etc and exchanges them for gift cards for The Keg, etc and takes his buddies out drinking for a night. Its starting to piss me off and has me wondering how many others abuse the kindness of others like this??

I think it makes me even angrier because there were times in college I could have really used some help, I was down to eating peanut butter mixed with stir fried vegetables off the clearance racks because thats all I could afford!

These two have a big fancy house, three vehicles for two adults, a big boat, atv, fancy television with Bose sound system, all the gaming systems you can name, etc etc. 

Are there no checks and balances when people apply for Christmas Hampers? Is there anything I can do like reporting them? Or would that even make any difference? GrrrRRRrRRRRRRR!!!!!


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is suitable for the Frugality forum but I don't know where else to put it...


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

They would probably figure out where the complaint came from.

I know that Christmas cheer boards and the like are usually stretched and short on volunteers during certain holidays. I am not sure they have the means to start turning people away.

The same thing applies for many panhandlers btw. There are documented cases of these sorts of scammers who dress in crappy clothes and act like they're down on their luck. In fact, they're quite successful and are padding their income with change from strangers. It's one of the many reasons I don't give to panhandlers. They won't go away if we keep falling for it. They only do it because people give. Different topic though.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

...


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Reporting someone or talking about them behind their back never solves anything

Confront him face to face or find someone else who can make him feel like scum do it.


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Reporting someone or talking about them behind their back never solves anything
> 
> Confront him face to face or find someone else who can make him feel like scum do it.


Already tried, by a few people. Unfortunately the guy doesn't care and all his buddies care about is partying. Like I said, he is a jerk.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm sure I know some people who could make him reevaluate his entire life in 5 mins. If no one is available, go with public humiliation.


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

In my city, Christmas hamper recipients are supposed to be coordinated through a Christmas Exchange, so there is no duplication, and recipients are supposed to be referred by someone such as a social worker, teacher, or clergy who are aware of the recipient's circumstances. It is not supposed to be just by "applying". But I am sure there are lots of loopholes.

Once you give a gift, you can't control what a person does with it. 

There will always be jerks who know how to work the sytem. Don't obsess over them, and remember the many who really do need the help.

PS. The bigger problem is that I think your friend seriously needs advice on how to end this relationship.

PPS: Wife to jerk: _"Every time you finagle a Christmas hamper that we don't need, a family in need goes without one. I can't live with someone who steals food from the hungry."_

Wife to jerk: _"Every time you trade food vouchers for a drinking binge with your buddies, you are insulting the good people who donated their hard-earned money to buy food for the needy. I can't live with someone who displays such a complete lack of conscience."_


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

There are two ways to deal with this. 

1 - Refuse to give to charitable organisations and give directly to the people that need it. All too often the people who apply are not the people who are truly deserving. 

That's the route I go with. 

2 - Accept that due to the fact that charities have limited resources they are unable to fact check applications so they just process the paperwork. 

I've heard people use abuse of the system as an excuse for not supporting these organisations but realistically, for every hamper that goes astray to a "jerk" 20 people who do legitimately need it get it. 

You may find as the government did when investigating abuses of OHIP that the real cretins are not these minor abusers but the management and staff in the organization. In the OHIP investigation they did not find illegal immigrants with fake health cards they found Dr's overbilling and charging for tests that did not happen. 

This is what I found when I volunteered for a charitable organisation in the far past. The kitchen staff was selling the good food out the back door and substituting chicken and rice for every meal. The director was paid well over 100 G per year and had a cottage and big fancy house and nice BMW while telling everyone how poor the place was. There was also some OHIP fraud going on, with every room filled with homeless even when they weren't. All in all, this convinced me that if I feel like someone needs help, I help them help themselves. I can tell the difference and deal with plenty of people who I can help.


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm glad I posted this, it's made me realize that basically there's little to nothing I can do - this guy will continue being a jerk and there's nothing I can realistically do about it. Part of me gets frustrated because he makes more than we do (both my husband and this jerk are military so, as I know both their ranks it's easy to ballpark what they make a year), yet both my husband and I volunteer a LOT of hours to community organizations because we've either been unable to afford to give money/material goods, or, the times we could have given money, we both prefer to volunteer our time anyway.

And to top it off, I met a woman this past week who's husband doesn't make a lot (he's just starting out in the military), and they have two kids, a new baby being one of them, wifey isn't working, and they just moved and are finding it tough as the real estate is darn expensive where they moved to.... so I was hoping I could refer her to get a Christmas Hamper, but she will have nothing to do with it! Me thinking of her and her family vs this jerk really upsets me.... people who need it (ie lady I just met recently) who feels she can't ask for help because her husband "has a good job and works fulltime" (her words), vs a jerk who abuses the system.


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I was sickened when I read the OP's comments. Reading through the thread I realized that yes, not much can be done with the abuse of charity in this situation. Hopefully, there is a little something called Karma to even the score. In the meantime, this will not prevent me from charitable acts as I will just assume that it is going to someone that is more deserving of it than the jerk you mentioned


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

In the military part of the personal evaluation is on community involvement and that's easily the section that makes all the difference for promotion. Depending on rank, you could actually be charged for this kind of behavior. Like most things, it's better to handle it at the lowest level possible and there are many ways to do that. If you don't want to talk to anyone face to face, just make a similar thread on army.ca Someone would likely pm you for names and it wouldn't be the first time action came from that forum, I know some high ranks monitor it for a direct connection.

I'm surprised that people think nothing can be done. I've seen people get reprimanded for much less, especially when it draws a poor perception to the military in public.. like being posted on a public forum


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I will never, ever report anything to the military again. When we lost our daughter I was treated extremely poorly by a military member who I approached for guidance on an issue related to our loss.

At the time, so soon after our loss, understandably I was not in any shape to deal with someone like this. When I reported it six months later, (I had an email proving how cruel this person was treating me) my husband was told to "counsel his wife", and that if I pushed the matter my husband would be "deemed as an Administrative Burden" and kicked out of the military. The threats worked, I put a hold on my complaint and will never revisit it again, ever.

I'd rather let this jerk continue getting Christmas hampers than complain to the military about him. Thankfully others in this thread have made me realize there's little if anything I can do, so I basically have to accept that, while most people legitimately need help, some people will abuse any system made to help people.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Ok. Base everything on 1 bad person. I don't know what the situation there was but I could have told you who to deal with in that case. I've been given a poor answer many times but there's always another avenue to try if they are wrong. They certainly don't "kick people out" for this


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Ok. Base everything on 1 bad person. I don't know what the situation there was but I could have told you who to deal with in that case. I've been given a poor answer many times but there's always another avenue to try if they are wrong. They certainly don't "kick people out" for this


Seriously mode3sour? I tell you our daughter died and not only do you not even express a drop of sympathy, you go on to make me sound like I'm an idiot for not wanting to push further and you assume you would know "who to deal with in that case", like I don't.

You read a post where someone says their child died, and they were treated like crap and you come back with "Ok. Base everything on 1 bad person." with knowing only vaguest of details.

Unbelievable.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> The kitchen staff was selling the good food out the back door and substituting chicken and rice for every meal. *The director was paid well over 100 G per year and had a cottage and big fancy house and nice BMW while telling everyone how poor the place was. *
> 
> There was also some OHIP fraud going on, with every room filled with homeless even when they weren't.


More scam artists, but in a minor position to defraud those in need.

But I can't understand the "OHIP fraud" thing you mentioned... "B". 

Don't the "missing homeless" need OHIP cards to get medical attention, or do the charities have a carte blanche" to bill OHIP for medical attention done within the boundaries of the charity?

Or did you mean that the charity gets funding from the province or organizations such as United Way? 

Human nature at work!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> Seriously mode3sour? Unbelievable.


Mode3sour...atten-shun! Eyes front! By the left, quick march!... you can also join me in the "doghouse"?.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Addy said:


> Seriously mode3sour? Unbelievable.


I have expressed sympathy a few times when you've brought it up before, I think you really need it from someone else. There are people who can help you. I have traumatic reactions to many things but I can't paint everyone associated with it when someone offers me any unrelated advice. I would be avoiding a lot of people. I only tried to help you with the original topic. Unfortunately some military people are desensitized to death that nobody else seems to sympathize about, including most Cdns like yourself. You just have to try another person.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

addy everyone's heart goes out to you for the tragic loss & always has. They say loss of a child is a human being's greatest grief, there is nothing to compare. You are a courageous girl to carry on so lovingly with your husband & children & family.

but ... i think mode ... was ... just trying to help. He is a person who is often helpful here in cmf forum.

rest assured everyone is compassionate & always will be.

on a different note, if i may, if you have a moment would you mind explaining what it means to "brine" a turkey. I know, i know, marinate the bird in a salt brine solution. But why. Ham i can understand, but turkey is baffling.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

From the interwebs:



> The Science Behind Brining
> 
> With Turkey Day quickly approaching, there has been a lot of talk on the web about whether or not you should brine your bird. Although there are good arguments from both camps, I think it is first important that the science of brining is understood before making any decisions.
> 
> ...


My family doesn't brine the turkey for this reason. We're conditioned to not add much salt to food, so when we do, it tastes too salty. It does sound interesting to me though.

A lot of commercially processed meat is pre-brined, partially to bulk up weight and partially to make the meat more 'forgiving' for home cooks that might cook the crap out of it.


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

To Carver...

It was an alcohol recovery home, and OHIP covers treatment of addictions. 

So basically, the people would pay rent from their welfare checks, but...a certain amount of the "treatment" is paid by OHIP funding. Except many, many people left before their time was up. Not only would they collect multiple rents from individuals mostly from Social Assistance because if they drank they got kicked out, but no room was ever empty according to OHIP. 

Some rooms would be rented out 2-3 times per month as people came and went. 

I was helping to renovate the place, and the director had asked me to donate materials as he said he could not afford them. I was a student at the time and on a very limited budget so I really resented him asking. Then I started to do mental math on the place and it kind of shocked me. As time went on I became more and more upset about it as were other people. It became clear that the people running the place were far from altruistic. 

If i'm not mistaken they also applied for and received a government grant for buying the place as well.


----------

