# My company moving out to Asia...



## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

It seems my boat is going to sink... I don't want to be too precise about where I work, but it seems that we're slowly, but surely moving our operations of our call center to an Asian country. I read a few newspapers of that country, and they are very happy to get our jobs. I can understand that! I have a very good salary and very good work conditions. From what I gather, we should be gone in about 6 months. Fortunately, the French part is going to stay in Canada, and I speak French. I live in Toronto. I would not be surprised if we move to Quebec where it is cheaper to rent and salaries are lower. I may follow. I don't know!!!!!! 

The mangement team don't know that every low-level employees know. I am the first to find out about that, and now everyone knows. I can only imagine that a lot of people are now looking for a job elswhere. It would hurt badly the company if there was a sudden massive exit of employees. It takes 2 months to train a new employee. What if we lose a lot of people, and it turns out that this was all an unecessary panick? Can I get in trouble for spreading the news??


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

If you weren't explicitly told not to "spread the word" then I would say they shouldn't give you a hard time, although it depends if you work for some hard asses or not.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Be very careful about posting details on the Internet and naming the company, though it may not matter if you'll be laid off. Not sure about living in Quebec though, what with their racist language police and other hatred towards the English.

Also, I don't know who told you that it is cheaper to rent and that salaries are lower. If you will be in the city, the costs should be comparable to where you are now. It depends on the local market.

The company won't be hurt. They've made their decision, everyone will go and they will keep skeletal services for the french. May not be worth it to relocate everyone east but you may not even stay. 

Hopefully your 3 savings tiers are in place.

Good luck.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Not sure about living in Quebec though, what with their racist language police and other hatred towards the English.
> 
> Also, I don't know who told you that it is cheaper to rent and that salaries are lower. If you will be in the city, the costs should be comparable to where you are now. It depends on the local market.


I find that people who perceive the French negatively get treated as such - body language. If someone came to Ontario only speaking to you in French and glaring you'd be an *** too. I live in Quebec and everyone is great if you're open to a different culture.

Houses are way cheaper in Quebec. The RE did not boom or bust here I own a house for $125k. Friend has a similar house 4 hrs North of Toronto for $300k. The hydro electricity is dirt cheep, the property taxes were frozen for like 10 years or more (cheap) water is practically free (everyone has pools) and the auto ins is way cheaper too. The worst part is the taxes if you don't have kids because they cover day care and CEGEP etc

I wouldn't move to Quebec unless you want to. Is it that hard to find a new job?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Send it to Wikileaks.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

It might depend on how you found out the company was moving. Was it through honest means or did you pretend to be a cleaner and rifle through the bosses office? 

Why do you think it might be an unnecessary panic? Maybe they won't move? 

Regardless, I wouldn't worry about it - when a company makes a decision like this (or even just thinks about it), it is taking a risk that employees will leave. Not your problem.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Be very careful about posting details on the Internet and naming the company, though it may not matter if you'll be laid off. Not sure about living in Quebec though, what with their racist language police and other hatred towards the English.Good luck.


I'm French from Quebec, but I'm not sure I won't to go back there. It may sound funny to some people, but the weather is a huge factor when choosing a location. In Toronto, the winters are less severe, not much snow and in summer there is quite a lot of sunshine. In Quebec, in the cities I lived in anyway, the weather is mediocre.

Yes, I'm saving up as much money as possible. No trips, no car, no costy hubbies, etc. I'm not worried on the money aspect. But thanks for reminding me about.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> It might depend on how you found out the company was moving. Was it through honest means or did you pretend to be a cleaner and rifle through the bosses office?
> 
> Why do you think it might be an unnecessary panic? Maybe they won't move?
> 
> Regardless, I wouldn't worry about it - when a company makes a decision like this (or even just thinks about it), it is taking a risk that employees will leave. Not your problem.


I read a bit on companies outsourcing to Asian countries. I decided to put in the name of my company, just in case. And I found out the news.

The panick is the one I might create among my co-workers. A few said they'd start looking at competitors. If many leave and the managers find out, they might come back to me.

It's the company who took the decision, but the mangers may tell me, " You should have ask us first about it instead of trying to create fear. You see, this news will have no impact on us, everyone will keep his job. We lost employees because of you, for nothing."


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

*No! *_They should have told you_ guys and been upfront about it! How terrible to find out something like this on google!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Taxsaver said:


> I read a bit on companies outsourcing to Asian countries. I decided to put in the name of my company, just in case. And I found out the news.
> 
> The panick is the one I might create among my co-workers. A few said they'd start looking at competitors. If many leave and the managers find out, they might come back to me.
> 
> It's the company who took the decision, but the mangers may tell me, " You should have ask us first about it instead of trying to create fear. You see, this news will have no impact on us, everyone will keep his job. We lost employees because of you, for nothing."


I guess you could argue both sides.

Regardless, what's done is done. Nothing you can do about it now.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> What is done is done. Nothing you can do about it now.


I think it conludes this thread very well. I'll give you an update. Summer is not so far away.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Taxsaver said:


> Yes, I'm saving up as much money as possible. No trips, no car, no costy hubbies


Yes, some hubby's can be quite costly! I sometimes think if I were single again how much money I would save!


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

All right, hobby. Whatever, instead of depressing over the sinking ship, I've decided to do something about it: I'm starting to work on the business idea I had a long time ago.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Taxsaver said:


> All right, hobby. Whatever, instead of depressing over the sinking ship, I've decided to do something about it: I'm starting to work on the business idea I had a long time ago.


Moving jobs to lower-cost geographies is a distressing reality in the technology industry. If it makes you feel any better, there are so many people here in the Ottawa area who got laid off and found something else. Yes, many like me still work in technology with other employers. A significant number started up new companies. One company was started by ex-Nortel engineers apparently has a very successful business making... sex toys. I kid you not. They were profiled in the newspaper and were reported that they could hardly keep up with the demand. Hopefully, you can tide over the lean period and move on to better things. Good luck!


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

The hubby was a joke, I thought a funny one but clearly it wasn't so funny!  I think CC has a good point, and if you work on your business plan and stay employed who knows, you could do well at both and be doubly successful!


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Addy said:


> The hubby was a joke, I thought a funny one but clearly it wasn't so funny!  I think CC has a good point, and if you work on your business plan and stay employed who knows, you could do well at both and be doubly successful!


It's OK, Addy. It was funny.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm glad I did not buy the condo I was talking about in the summer of 2010. I would be very nervous right now.  I will wait to have at least 25% downpayment before buying anything.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

That is why I'm very leery of getting into property purchases. You are really trapped and extremely vulnerable in case of a job loss or other adversity. Apartment living gives you maximum flexibility to get out quickly with minimal expense if needed.

In your case, IIRC you were going to hit up family to help you buy that condo, right? So not only would you still be indebted to them at the moment, but they would end up being stuck paying on a property and you not having any savings or extra cash to weather the storm that is before you.

People need to think long and hard about the worst case scenarios before purchasing property.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Yes, Royal. And I'm very grateful to the people of this forum. At times, I resented them for discouraging me from buying the condo.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

There's always EI to fall back on, I believe you can get it for a max of 52 weeks?


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Sherlock said:


> There's always EI to fall back on, I believe you can get it for a max of 52 weeks?


Good point. They probably give 60% of your salary.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

More like 38 weeks now and even that depends on the unemployment rate in the region you are applying in. They've cut back so much, the maximum payment is something like $413 a week before deductions, there is an initial waiting period of up to a month. Many people get disqualified as well. Don't get me wrong, it's a good cushion but shouldn't be counted on as it may not actually be available to you when you need it.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Isn't the whole purpose of IE to have something that you can count on when you need it? If you lose your job because your company moves to a different location, I don't see how you wouldn't qualify EI.

The only way you could fail to qualify for EI is if you willingly quit your job, you get fired for doing something illegal, or you don't have the minimum insurable hours (which range from 420 to 700 depending on unemployment in the region).

I believe the waiting period only applies if you receive severance and/or termination pay, otherwise there is no waiting (or if there is it's very short, maybe 2 weeks).


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

You are correct Sherlock. In the OP's case, if he is laid off there is a very good chance he will qualify. My comments about qualification don't necessarily apply to the OP and were more general. A lot of people have been surprised when they wouldn't qualify for benefits. Be very careful as to how you leave a job.

But the waiting period is definitely there. Everyone has a minimum two week period during which no benefits are available and by the time you fill out and they process the paperwork, it could be up to a month before you receive your first cheque.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2010)

[/QUOTE] It seems my boat is going to sink... I don't want to be too precise about where I work ... moving our call center to an Asian country ... we should be gone in 6 months ... Fortunately, the French part is going to stay in Canada, and I speak French ... Can I get in trouble for spreading the news??[/QUOTE]

Ok, so you're not losing your position because you speak French, but you're concerned that by "spreading the news", e.g. posting to this forum, you might get in trouble by which I guess you mean might result in you losing your position ... well, what's posted to the internet is in ink, not pencil, and this thread will be around longer than either you or I I'm thinking.

I googled for some info on boat seats this summer (speaking of boats sinking) and found a post (to another group) that I'd posted about 10 years ago.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

It seems my boat is going to sink... I don't want to be too precise about where I work ... moving our call center to an Asian country ... we should be gone in 6 months ... Fortunately, the French part is going to stay in Canada, and I speak French ... Can I get in trouble for spreading the news??[/QUOTE]

Ok, so you're not losing your position because you speak French, but you're concerned that by "spreading the news", e.g. posting to this forum, you might get in trouble by which I guess you mean might result in you losing your position ... well, what's posted to the internet is in ink, not pencil, and this thread will be around longer than either you or I I'm thinking.

I googled for some info on boat seats this summer (speaking of boats sinking) and found a post (to another group) that I'd posted about 10 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Lol'ing about the boat post. I was more afraid to lose my position because I spread the word emailing people at work, not posting here. I don't think I make it worse by posting here. But thank you for the warning!


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2010)

Taxsaver ... my son has worked for 2 call centers over the years, the first was outsourced to Costa Rica ... and Dell of course simply shut down ... a rough business ... best of luck to you.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

I remember the first company closing down on me. A high-placed was telling us how great the company was and that she would refuse working anywhere else. A month later, she quit the company. A week later, the company announced that the call center would moving out to P.E.I... Coincidence or conspiracy?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I think the moral of the story is not to trust mgmt. They lie.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

You can't trust anyone. If a company in this country is concerned about employees getting hurt and the environment it is because they have to. But at the same time the same company would burn down trees and hurt as many employees as possible without care if the country they are in and the world does not care.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I just want to point out that you can fight initial EI decisions. 

If you are having significant troubles at your job, keep documentation of what is going on. 

At a previous job several things happened at once.. 

I discovered my boss was stealing from the other employees commissions
He changed my hours requiring me to work an extra day every two weeks 
I got him to pay me for the extra day after fighting with him, then, he split my days off so I had only one day off at a time 
I discovered that he was paying my coworker (a male) $400 more per month than I 
He did not pay me required extra pay for stat holidays. 

He agreed to lay me off, then he wrote quit on my separation slip. 

He tried to get me to sign off on my commissions held back three months before he would give me the separation slip, he only gave my separation slip after I gave his personal cell number to EI and they told him it was illegal. 

Next we went to the labour board where I won an additional $1100 he had taken off my pay. 

The deal is everything was documented. I also had a letter from my boss telling me to quit for medical reasons. 

You may quit your job under certain conditions that are inequitable, but you must have proof in my case I had printed off every single email prior to my departure. 

I received every single penny from EI and then I won at the Labor Board as well. I almost had a hard time cashing the check because I wanted to frame it


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Hmmmm. That is great advice Berube. Unfortunately a lot of these sorts of interactions are not documented. They usually take the form of an in-person meeting and there are no documents to sign. For instance when you get transferred to another department/demoted they simply tell you the conditions in a closed-door meeting, take it or lump it. These people are not stupid. Getting them to put any of this down on paper would be nearly impossible, I think.


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