# More Family Drama



## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

My MIL is an elderly (close to 80) widowed woman who lives solely on government benefits with no assets or savings of her own. I should mention also that she is addicted to cigarettes, bingo and a presciption pain killer. (As an aside, we are unable to find a doctor who will help her detox from the pain pills because of her age and underlying medical issues - apparently the withdrawal could kill her). She lives in a rent-geared-to-income situation so her housing costs are affordable. 

My husband is one of several children, though only 4 are in contact with her and live close enough to be involved in her day to day life. Of those four 3 of them (my husband being the exception) live in a similar financial situation to her: cigarettes, alcohol, debt issues and live week to week with no assets or savings. This is an issue of resentment in his family as we are seen as the "haves" while the rest of the family are the "have nots" - those are their words, not mine. 

We live a comfortable life: Single income, two young kids, mortgage (which we are aggressively paying down) some rental income and a frugal lifestyle because we don't want to live paycheque to paycheque. 

Recently my MIL has been complaining that money is very tight and she can't afford to pay for the necessities. It has been suggested by his other 3 siblings that *we* should pick up the monthly tab for some of her expenses since we are (in their opinion) able to afford it. The expenses in question are around $36 - $60 per month. 

We have pushed back saying that we will contribute equally with the other 3 siblings and that we are unwilling to foot the entire bill ourselves because we refuse to enable her addictions. 

Are we wrong? 

We are so conflicted about this. We feel like if we give in to their financial demands we would be morally bankrupt - we wouldn't support anyone else's bad habits. And that it would be just the beginning of more financial demands to come. Where and how do you draw the line?

On the other hand, she is almost 80 years old, there is no point in trying to make her change her ways now and she is entitled to enjoy the time she has left here, no?

This is causing a lot of stress in our family right now and any input is appreciated.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I would have offered up the same deal, everyone should share in the expenses. For them to assume you should cover all just because you and your husband chose to be responsible with your money is grossly unfair. Please don't let them guilt you into paying the full amount, no matter how much or how little it is. Sometimes to help people you have to say no to their demands.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

Addy said:


> I would have offered up the same deal, everyone should share in the expenses. For them to assume you should cover all just because you and your husband chose to be responsible with your money is grossly unfair. Please don't let them guilt you into paying the full amount, no matter how much or how little it is. Sometimes to help people you have to say no to their demands.


Thanks Addy. We are pretty firm in our decision and plan to stick to it, but it is hard not to second guess ourselves with all the family pressure. 

We work hard and live frugally so we can be furhter ahead, not so we can support family members who have made different choices. 

We have pretty much offended them by telling them to cut back on smoking to afford their share of the costs. It's not a pleasant situation.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Dana said:


> Are we wrong?


*No.*

"Fair is foul and foul is fair."

Everyone should pay their 1/4.

You are doing a favour by even giving your 1/4 in the first place.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

can you go with a compromise, beginning with a family conference that would involve the MIL as well, at least at some point. She will have to realize that demands cannot be endless.

all sibs should help. Ask for a one-year commitment only. Surely everyone can spare a few dollars, no matter what their circumstances are. And what about the sibs who don't live close. Surely they should be asked to contribute anyhow.

family meeting(s) could also be asked to consider what to do if/when mother's financial circumstances worsen.

i imagine there would be a woolly, blurry, difficult period during which the sibs will grapple with the fact that you are not going to be willing doormats & suckers who will just pay up to every demand. This period might be very hard to get through.

i believe that in your place i *might* be willing to foot up to 50% of the request; but i'd make sure that maman understands that 1) other sibs must come forward, and 2) it's only a one-year commitment on my part. I believe i'd take a hard nose & explain that if other sibs refuse, then i will not be able to do anything at all ...

dana you are always such a gracious lady, so if anyone can finesse their way through this situation it's going to be you.


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## ghostryder (Apr 5, 2009)

Dana said:


> Recently my MIL has been complaining that money is very tight and she can't afford to pay for the necessities. It has been suggested by his other 3 siblings that *we* should pick up the monthly tab for some of her expenses since we are (in their opinion) able to afford it. The expenses in question are around $36 - $60 per month.
> 
> We have pushed back saying that we will contribute equally with the other 3 siblings and that we are unwilling to foot the entire bill ourselves because we refuse to enable her addictions.
> 
> Are we wrong?



Yes. Your offer is MUCH too generous. It should not only be shared as you have suggested, but should be conditional on her stopping all purchases of non-necessities (smokes, bingo etc).


Oh, but then she wouldn't need the help. Maybe she should spend our taxpayer money on her necessities first. If there is anything left over after that, then she can buy some smokes.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Ghostryder I am certain Dana knows that already. Regardless of a relatives addictions, it's difficult to ask they "speak to the hand" unless they control their addictions. I believe Dana is struggling between your exact train of thought and the fact her MIL is an 80 year old woman who is family.

Dana I hope the other siblings do their part, and I agree with tossing the ball back to their court by saying you are willing to help, but can only do so if they do their part.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

If her housing situation is affordable, then I don't understand why you should spend a single penny on her cigarette, alcohol, and bingo addictions. Not even getting into the pain killer issue, but the other 3 are inexcusable. 

I'd tell the rest that it's very, very easy to offer someone else's money for things, and that maybe they should find some money too instead of volunteering everyone else's money. You can offer to pay your 1/4 share to match whatever they are willing to do. Simply, put up or shut up.

If it were me, I'd say I'd cover all of it if I get full control of MIL's finances. Meaning I won't donate a penny to her if she's spending any on cigarette, alcohol, or bingo. She signs everything over, I put in the extra money, and she gets a controlled allowance while I make sure money is spent on the necessities. Is she too old to be treated like a child? Perhaps. But if she wants to be treated like an adult, she can quit wasting her cash any time she likes and stop depending on others. AKA be an adult.

Sounds harsh, I admit. But irresponsibility always gets on my last nerve. This isn't someone who hit a patch of bad luck. It's a lifetime of bad decisions catching up with her. And there's a difference between being asked a favour and being expected to contribute.

The calm, rational side of me (it barely exists) suggests the following alternative: whichever sibling won't shut up about things should take her into their home. They can collect a bit of money from her for it to cover food and other expenditures, say less than she's currently paying for rent and food. She has more income left over to blow on whatever stupid stuff she wants. One of the poorer siblings gets some extra income. Win win.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

This reminds me of a friend of mine, who supports her parents much more than her siblings & they let her under the excuse that she is single & can afford more, when in fact, the siblings are the ones who have double income salaries. 

I agree with humble with respect to a compromise; the amount in question is so small that even taking the $60 per month, it would only amount to $15 per person, but if that is not possible [or they refuse], how about you contribute 40% or 50% and the other 3 handle the rest? 

In such a delicate situation, sometimes someone has to stand taller.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

well, well.
elder abuse.
i'm just surprised who it's coming from, is all.
& since when did MIL have alcohol probs.
sibs yes, but Ma, no.
boy oh boy does somebody ever have it in for his own mother.

now back to the ranch. The doctor himself has taken a look at MIL & her situation. It's baloney that pain drug addiction in the elderly cannot be treated. Doc is doing what all overworked & under-resourced docs are doing these days. He's putting his efforts where he figures some chance of success. This rules out MIL. Doc already knows she won't change.

i wouldn't waste one second of time or one calorie of energy trying to mess with the finances or the smokings. I'd just set up my limits. One year. Willing to contribute up to one-half of $50 per month. Some other sib must do the work of collecting & handing over payment. At first sign of hanky panky i quit cold turkey.

then i'd move on.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> well, well.
> elder abuse.
> i'm just surprised who it's coming from, is all.
> & since when did MIL have alcohol probs.
> ...


You're right Humble, my MIL does not drink, but my husband's siblings do. With respect to the pain pills, we have spoken to three doctors and none of them are willing to take on the risk associated with detoxing someone in her stituation. Her underlying health issues and age make withdrawal too risky and her underlying medical issues make her a "nuisance patient". 

Also, at this point trying to convince her to change her ways is a wasted effort. Add to that the fact that we would have no support from her children who all have similar issues and we would be fighting a losing battle. 

We have clarified our position directly to her and to the other siblings. We will pay an amount equal to everyone else and we will make payment directly to the payee as unfortunately we don't trust any of them with cash. 

Lots of hard feelings, but we feel we have to guard our own well-being. Hopefully the hard feelings will be short lived.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

Addy said:


> I believe Dana is struggling between your exact train of thought and the fact her MIL is an 80 year old woman who is family.


This is exactly our dilemma.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> dana you are always such a gracious lady, so if anyone can finesse their way through this situation it's going to be you.


Thank you, Humble, that is a nice compliment


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

yes the hard feelings should/will pass soon. A fine aspect is that you decided & acted quickly. Another fine aspect imho: in the end there was no mention of the c-word, or the a-word, or even the b-word. In fact no blame at all. That's good.

if any repercussions or untoward happenings present themselves, we will all do our best to support you ...


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Dana said:


> My MIL is an elderly (close to 80) widowed woman who lives solely on government benefits with no assets or savings of her own. I should mention also that she is addicted to cigarettes, bingo and a presciption pain killer. (As an aside, we are unable to find a doctor who will help her detox from the pain pills because of her age and underlying medical issues - apparently the withdrawal could kill her). She lives in a rent-geared-to-income situation so her housing costs are affordable.
> 
> My husband is one of several children, though only 4 are in contact with her and live close enough to be involved in her day to day life. Of those four 3 of them (my husband being the exception) live in a similar financial situation to her: cigarettes, alcohol, debt issues and live week to week with no assets or savings. This is an issue of resentment in his family as we are seen as the "haves" while the rest of the family are the "have nots" - those are their words, not mine.
> 
> ...


Bingo Cigarettes and medications are going up every year .We are talking $36-$60 a month so probably cut back a bingo card or a few cigarettes she can handle that herself.Last time i went to bingo was 4-5 years ago at the Delta in Pickering cost us $45 to play and honestly we had only 1 strip of the special games.I have only one brother and a sister ,My sister is not well off but she owns her house ,car etc and has to watch her money carefully.Usually when our family is asking money for a sick relative or something I will contribute for my sister as well even though she does not ask.If my sister was gambling , smoking and drinking you can be sure I would not.
I would suggest you do acknowledge to family you may appear to be better offer than them but you have high expenses as well.Offer to pay $20 a month and they can pay $10 a month which gives mom $50 a month and she will have to budget these months she needs that extra $10.00.Make sure to ask them on payday for that $10 bux lol


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Dana said:


> We have clarified our position directly to her and to the other siblings. We will pay an amount equal to everyone else and we will make payment directly to the payee as unfortunately we don't trust any of them with cash.


I think this is the best decision you could have made.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don't agree with many of the comments on this thread, so I will just say this,

Families torn apart find patching up difficult.

I would want a real good reason to cause conflict in my family, and this wouldn't be the battle I would pick.

I would just ask the MIL how much she needs to be comfortable and give her that amount.........no questions asked.

I would consider it a gift, and once given is her money to decide how to spend it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sorry, I missed that you had already made the decision.

I wish you the best and hope things work out.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

sags said:


> I don't agree with many of the comments on this thread, so I will just say this,
> 
> Families torn apart find patching up difficult.
> 
> ...


That would be my thought, too, Sags, if the money was needed for necessities or even for non-addictive treats to make her life more pleasant. But in this case, it sounds as if the money would just be wasted - the MIL would probably just spend the extra money on more bingo, cigarettes, and painkillers and be no further ahead. I would be willing to bet that no matter how much she's given, it will never be enough and Dana and her spouse would find themselves expected to increase the "gift" regularly. I don't blame them one bit for refusing to become an "enabler" of the MIL's addictions.

Dana, you've told us what your husband's siblings think about this, but I'm curious as to what your MIL has to say about it? I can't imagine how she can justify asking for help from her family in these circumstances.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I understand your meaning Karen, and I agree it shouldn't turn into an ever increasing cost. I would set the amount and tell her if she needed more, she would have to justify it. I would only pay more for increases in utilities etc.

This really is an open question concerning a lot of "gifting" for parents.

Say you have a kid away at university or college, and they call home in need of some cash. Do you require receipts for the spending? Do you trust them not to spend some of the money on pizza and beer? Do they need cash because they already spent money on pizza and beer.

Ah, it is a minefield being in the sandwich generation.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

Karen said:


> Dana, you've told us what your husband's siblings think about this, but I'm curious as to what your MIL has to say about it? I can't imagine how she can justify asking for help from her family in these circumstances.


MIL phoned my husband this weekend and suggested that he was in a better position to help her financially than his siblings. According to her they don't earn as much, have debt, and their expenses are higher. So it really does feel like it's us against them. She did not take into account that we have young children (my husband is the youngest and all of his siblings children are grown) and one income. 

He told her he is happy to help her to the same extent as his siblings and that she would have more money available if she cut back on bingo and cigarettes. She insisted she hasn't been to bingo in months (we know she was there multiple times last week because one of her other children drove her) and that smoking is not negotiable. Although she says she has switched to cigarettes bought from a reserve which are cheaper? We don't know enough about cigarettes to know the difference.

ETA: I should mention, in our defence, we are not stingy misers. We certainly don't let MIL go without. We have helped her with expenses in the past such as her phone bill, travel costs to visit family, replacing housewares that don't work, buying groceries and taking her on outings and for meals. It is the attitude of entitlement and the expectation that we should provide in lieu of everyone providing that is the issue.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

sags said:


> This really is an open question concerning a lot of "gifting" for parents.
> 
> Say you have a kid away at university or college, and they call home in need of some cash. Do you require receipts for the spending? Do you trust them not to spend some of the money on pizza and beer? Do they need cash because they already spent money on pizza and beer.
> 
> Ah, it is a minefield being in the sandwich generation.


You are right, Sags, I would not expect receipts from my children - unless they were addicts and then I would approach our financial relationship differently. 

My husband has had to deal on an emotional level with his Mother's issues all of his adult life (and I have had to deal with them for the past 20 years) and now that her issues are encroaching on our lifestyle, our decisions, and our financial well-being it is fair to say that there is some compassion fatigue on our end.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I hear you, either way there are problems.

If you don't help, you get the guilt trip laid on you, and if you do help, you feel that you are being manipulated.

You can't win for trying. As long as you and your husband can agree on the solution, that is the main thing.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

Call HGTV, NOW, I smell Reality Show.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Dana said:


> MIL phoned my husband this weekend and suggested that he was in a better position to help her financially than his siblings. According to her they don't earn as much, have debt, and their expenses are higher. So it really does feel like it's us against them. She did not take into account that we have young children (my husband is the youngest and all of his siblings children are grown) and one income.
> 
> He told her he is happy to help her to the same extent as his siblings and that she would have more money available if she cut back on bingo and cigarettes. She insisted she hasn't been to bingo in months (we know she was there multiple times last week because one of her other children drove her) and that smoking is not negotiable. Although she says she has switched to cigarettes bought from a reserve which are cheaper? We don't know enough about cigarettes to know the difference.
> 
> ETA: I should mention, in our defence, we are not stingy misers. We certainly don't let MIL go without. We have helped her with expenses in the past such as her phone bill, travel costs to visit family, replacing housewares that don't work, buying groceries and taking her on outings and for meals. It is the attitude of entitlement and the expectation that we should provide in lieu of everyone providing that is the issue.


Dana if she went to bingo 3-4 times in a week that is very expensive habit .I use to go to bingo with my mom when she came to visit or an elderly friend .I use to see the people there asking for loans etc to buy extra cards was pretty pathetic.I think she needs a new hobby ,maybe bingo is the only social activity she has , maybe try taking her to the mall ,library or seniors have yoga etc.I know as my husband and I take a family friend out once or twice a week to fill up her time.Maybe it is not that she likes bingo but she has nothing else to do ,just a thought....


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

IMO...your children are your first priority. Use the 30-60 a month towards their schooling.

Perhaps your MIL can cut her cable bill, or her smokes down a bit or her Bingo gaming, to free up some $.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Dana said:


> You are right, Sags, I would not expect receipts from my children - unless they were addicts and then I would approach our financial relationship differently.
> 
> My husband has had to deal on an emotional level with his Mother's issues all of his adult life (and I have had to deal with them for the past 20 years) and now that her issues are encroaching on our lifestyle, our decisions, and our financial well-being it is fair to say that there is some compassion fatigue on our end.


That's more than understandable. And you've helped out plenty in the past but it's never really enough for some people.

What are the odds she can move in with one of the siblings? Especially since their children are grown up. It's a simple way to save money for MIL and for one of the siblings to assist without having to pay money.


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## ghostryder (Apr 5, 2009)

Dana said:


> MIL phoned my husband this weekend and suggested that he was in a better position to help her financially than his siblings. According to her they don't earn as much, have debt, and their expenses are higher. So it really does feel like it's us against them. She did not take into account that we have young children (my husband is the youngest and all of his siblings children are grown) and one income.



Maintain your backbone. MIL is manipulating you, using guilt to extort money. Typical addict behavior. The only reason she is doing this is because the other kids don't have any resources to mooch off of.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

c'mon she's 80 years old. She's an old, old lady who's funnier for her sly ability to still crack the whip & get attention in her family (piss-n-vinegar in the 9th decade !! plus she seems totally lucid, which is quite an accomplishment) than she is dangerous.

no need for the finger-waggers to go on & on like she was an axe murderer or a crack addict or a national terrorist risk.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

80 is not that old, and this Monster in Law is clearly abusing her children and abusing Her role as a Mother.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Dana said:


> MIL phoned my husband this weekend and suggested that he was in a better position to help her financially than his siblings. According to her they don't earn as much, have debt, and their expenses are higher. So it really does feel like it's us against them. She did not take into account that we have young children (my husband is the youngest and all of his siblings children are grown) and one income.


I wouldn't get into details about your financial situation; if I were you I would simply say "I'm sorry, we simply can't afford it when we're living off one income, but we are willing to share equally with the other siblings". And, just like she said no comprimise with her cigarettes, I would say you are not comprimising either, and that you are willing to put in your fair share and to not please ask again.



Dana said:


> He told her he is happy to help her to the same extent as his siblings and that she would have more money available if she cut back on bingo and cigarettes.


Good for him, for both sticking to his story and reminding her that she is not spending her money wisely.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> c'mon she's 80 years old. She's an old, old lady who's funnier for her sly ability to still crack the whip & get attention in her family (piss-n-vinegar in the 9th decade !! plus she seems totally lucid, which is quite an accomplishment) than she is dangerous.
> 
> no need for the finger-waggers to go on & on like she was an axe murderer or a crack addict or a national terrorist risk.


It sounds like a classical setting for a Miss Marple mystery.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

Addy said:


> I wouldn't get into details about your financial situation; if I were you I would simply say "I'm sorry, we simply can't afford it when we're living off one income, but we are willing to share equally with the other siblings". And, just like she said no comprimise with her cigarettes, I would say you are not comprimising either, and that you are willing to put in your fair share and to not please ask again.
> 
> 
> 
> Good for him, for both sticking to his story and reminding her that she is not spending her money wisely.


We *never* give my husband's side of the family details about our financial situation - even though some of them have asked specific questions outright. We don't even confirm or deny anything. Whatever information they believe they know about us purely speculation and assumption on their part and it's usually wrong. 

They are not letting this go. One of his siblings says they will phone him tonight to discuss further. He has told them there is nothing more to discuss, our position is clear, but apparently they don't agree.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

ghostryder said:


> Typical addict behavior. The only reason she is doing this is because the other kids don't have any resources to mooch off of.


You are right, ghostryder, when dealing with an addict one is dealing with the addiction and not the person. She is not a bad person, she is ill and that is another reason that we have been feeling so conflicted.


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