# Bank tellers asking questions



## AudiS4

How do you feel about bank tellers asking you where the 7K cash came from that you are depositing to your checking account?

Can making regular cash deposits in the 2 to 10 K range draw attention to yourself beyond a teller asking questions?


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## Canadian

It's pretty routine for them to ask questions with increasing counts of fraud and such. Frequent cash deposits can raise questions (especially if under $10k) because it alludes to fraudulent activity or money laundering - it's just how the bank teller's are trained to act/think. If you deposit those sums of cash frequently it's best to go to the same branch or two and/or have someone at the bank leave a note on your profile that you do this frequently (for a legitimate reason).

Disclosure: I used to work for a bank.


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## DayTek

^^^ +1

This is the reason. 

I was a bank teller for 8 years. There are serious repercussions for employees that do not follow anti-money laundering procedures. A teller who is doing their job correctly is asking those kinds of questions.


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## balexis

Canadian/Daytek: are these answers systematically recorded in the customer's file?

Personnally I would be tempted to decline to answer, and tell them to report the transaction to whatever competent authority if they think it is the right thing to do.


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## AudiS4

It seems silly to me and intrusive. If I want to hide money I am not going to the bank with it. I'd live off the cash buy gas groceries etc. with it and pay all cash. Then the money I normally used for those items would just stay in the bank. No one would question that. Also it's my money, I have no criminal record etc. Why is it a problem that I have cash? If my parents give me 9K as a gift and I go to the bank with it why does someone need to be concerned with that. I think the answer like I said above is just to spend the cash. Meaning I guess use the money like I am a criminal so that no one thinks I am a criminal.


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## OptsyEagle

AudiS4 said:


> It seems silly to me and intrusive. If I want to hide money I am not going to the bank with it. I'd live off the cash buy gas groceries etc. with it and pay all cash. Then the money I normally used for those items would just stay in the bank


Now decide what you would do if you were making $100,000 per month or more, all in cash. That is a lot of groceries. At some point you would want a bigger house or a nice sports car. Can't buy those with cash, so you will start depositing it into the bank. If you know about the $10,000 rule (and you would right after the 1st deposit) you would start depositing it in smaller (but still pretty large) amounts.

It's a regulation and all banks are going to ask those questions. You should assume that the RCMP will get access to this report. If the cash is legit, no worries, if it is not...well...I never liked criminals or tax dodgers much myself, so good luck to you. I have no problem with this rule.


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## lightcycle

Can you deposit > $10K in cash at an ATM?

If so, then no questions. FINTRAC, maybe, but no questions...


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## heyjude

Perhaps Canadian can answer this question: when would the bank call in the police? I'm sure there is a policy about this. I wonder how it balances customer confidentiality and crime prevention. As a customer, I would like to know how to avoid snooping. 

To the OP: you may think it is only your business, but for all the bank knows, you could be a drug dealer or gun smuggler. You also mentioned gifts. In many countries, a gift of $9000, even from your parents, would be considered taxable income. The bank does not want to be considered an accomplice in tax evasion or fraud. It's just managing risk.


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## carverman

AudiS4 said:


> It seems silly to me and intrusive. If I want to hide money I am not going to the bank with it. I'd live off the cash buy gas groceries etc. with it and pay all cash. Then the money I normally used for those items would just stay in the bank. No one would question that. Also it's my money, I have no criminal record etc. Why is it a problem that I have cash? If my parents give me 9K as a gift and I go to the bank with it why does someone need to be concerned with that. I think the answer like I said above is just to spend the cash. Meaning I guess use the money like I am a criminal so that no one thinks I am a criminal.


How does the bank know where you got the money? It could be obtained legitimately, or perhaps from the sale of a stolen vehicle or some illegal deal?

The gov't wants to know about any cash deposits over $10k, and the banks may also want to know about any cash deposits over a certain amount.

I got some money from the will of a deceased relative. The payments had to be split up into 3 cheques because anything over 10K is reported by the bank to CRA (I think), who may then send you a inquiry letter to ask you how you came across that money..and if it is not a gift, then taxes could be owing on that.

I would think it is best to co-operate with the banks who are instructed by the gov't to do their job and ask questions where necessary.
Too much money is now being laundered to Middle Eastern countries..or South America.


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## OptsyEagle

The bank does not care where you got the money and they are not "calling in the police". They are required, by regulation, to report to FINTRAC any transactions involving cash above $10,000 and any transactions close to that that they feel may be suspicious. Certainly multiple cash transactions in the multi-thousand dollar range would meet that test. Once they do this, they are done. End of questions.

Ask yourself, how often do you deposit cash, above even $2,000, into the bank in any given year. For most of us, only a business would ever do that. Which is why most money launderers will open a small shell business to facilitate this. At least here, we are getting the taxes on these ill gotten gains and I am sure the RCMP have a whole other department to deal with those.

This all surrounds the notion that if you remove the BENEFITS of crime, you will most likely stop or reduce the occurrence of crime. I also agree with this theory. Follow the money. Probably works better then trying to follow the criminal.


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## peterk

How vague an answer can you give? Does the bank actually record down a note with the transaction indicating what you told them in detail? a Yes/no checkbox? or is nothing recorded at all as long as you don't give off a "criminal" vibe with your answer?


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## AudiS4

I don't like it. Having said that it doesn't happen often, but it has happened.

I'll just do what I said and spend the cash instead of putting through the banks hands. I try and deal with banks as little as possible anyway. 

Why don't the assume that when I withdrawal a couple K that I am going out to buy some drugs and resell them at a profit? And ask me questions about that? Really anyone who is using cash these days is likely a criminal right?


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## DayTek

This explains the steps involved in the Money Laundering process: http://www.laundryman.u-net.com/page5_mlstgs.html

You notice that the first step is _"Placement"_, and it is the reason you get the third degree when depositing large or unusual quantities of cash. This is not simply a nosy bank teller being obtrusive, but rather someone who is trying to prevent possible or further illegal activity in the future. 

When you are in the circle of banking, it's not all about making money, but also keeping conscious of potential illegal activities. Client Due Diligence is on-going with every client and non-client. 

Here is an example of a Money Laundering system being operated:



> Drugs are sold for cash on the streets of Toronto. The cash proceeds are distributed and deposited in small amounts into bank accounts opened by accomplices in the money laundering operation (PLACEMENT).
> 
> The holders of the bank accounts (the accomplices) each receive an invoice from a design company acting as a front for the money launderers. The accomplices pay the design company’s invoices by cheque. The company deposits the cheques into its bank account in Vancouver and the proceeds are used to pay a dividend to the company’s main investor (LAYERING).
> 
> The company’s main investor transfers the dividend payment to a bank account in an offshore jurisdiction, and then forwards the funds from that bank account to another in London. The laundered money is moved (“integrated”) back into the economy (INTEGRATION).


People who do not work in the financial sector may grumble about being interrogated, but they should feel relieved that bank employees are doing their part to make sure illegal funds are not being integrated back into the economy…Or supplying criminals with the means to do harm.


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## RBull

1. I have no issue with it. In fact I think it's a good idea per the other well crafted responses by OptseyEagle, carverman, heyjude and experience from DayTek and Canadian. If you want to keep a lot of cash at home to avoid a simple question easily answered then that's your prerogative. 

2. Yes, as also per the earlier responses.


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## marina628

Recently I deposited $63,000 all from gambling winnings and bulk was a cheque ,they wanted to place a hold on it even though it is a Ontario Casino and I asked them not to(got piles of money there at TD and doubt Port Perry Casino will go bust ).It put me off when she asked me what I planned to spend the money on that I couldn't wait the 5 days.Guess she missed the point that I didn't want to keep it in account earning nothing when I could buy some stocks.


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## SkyFall

marina628 said:


> Recently I deposited $63,000 all from gambling winnings and bulk was a cheque ,they wanted to place a hold on it even though it is a Ontario Casino and I asked them not to(got piles of money there at TD and doubt Port Perry Casino will go bust ).It put me off when she asked me what I planned to spend the money on that I couldn't wait the 5 days.Guess she missed the point that I didn't want to keep it in account earning nothing when I could buy some stocks.


The thing is when it`s not usual (especially cheques) they have to put a hold on it....

It`s not about the casino going bust, people tend to come with that argument but when you work in the retail banking industry you will see how much fraud is going throught. The reason behind the hold is to prevend fraudulent cheque behind deposit. 

I am not saying that marina was trying to fraud here.. You would be surprise the amount of fraudulent cheque from the government is going around.

You can deposit the cheque directly with waterhouse if you want to buy stocks as well.

disclaimer: I used to be a teller, and I am speaking for myself here and not representing by any means my financial institution.


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## AudiS4

Of course I don't have a problem with preventing crime. I do have a problem when that bothers a non-criminal guy like me. It is like assuming I am guilty and I have to prove I am innocent. People who are comfortable with that statement are in a bad place in my mind (this is banking, I'm not trying to smuggle a bomb into a public gathering, having said that I be I could do it and get asked less questions than going to a bank with a couple of bucks). So I don't feel relived that I bank teller who knows little to nothing about me is asking me these kinds of questions. And it's no one's business what Marina wants to do with her 63K or when she wants to do it.

Of course I respect the opinions of others, I am in the minority here, but still the government or banks don't need anymore information about or control over the money of the citizens.


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## SkyFall

AudiS4 said:


> Of course I don't have a problem with preventing crime. I do have a problem when that bothers a non-criminal guy like me. It is like assuming I am guilty and I have to prove I am innocent. People who are comfortable with that statement are in a bad place in my mind (this is banking, I'm not trying to smuggle a bomb into a public gathering, having said that I be I could do it and get asked less questions than going to a bank with a couple of bucks). So I don't feel relived that I bank teller who knows little to nothing about me is asking me these kinds of questions. And it's no one's business what Marina wants to do with her 63K or when she wants to do it.
> 
> Of course I respect the opinions of others, I am in the minority here, but still the government or banks don't need anymore information about or control over the money of the citizens.


Theres always a way to ask the client questions without asking it... I never had any trouble because I always bring it in a way the client won`t feel awkward. and also about what questioning a client what he would be doing with the money..... well I think it`s too much.... because the client can tell you something and it`s not the truth so..... and same goes for where the money is coming from... the bank is just doing their part of the job... it`s up to the gov`t to act on it...

its like going to the casino and cashing out over 10k.... it did happened to me and they asked me for IDs to put it in their records.


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## BoringInvestor

AudiS4 said:


> Of course I don't have a problem with preventing crime. I do have a problem when that bothers a non-criminal guy like me.


How can financial institutions and government prevent crime (in this case: money laundering) and only target criminals? It seems like an impossible task.


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## Synergy

AudiS4 said:


> It seems silly to me and intrusive. If I want to hide money I am not going to the bank with it. I'd live off the cash buy gas groceries etc. with it and pay all cash.


Or, a new car, boat, etc. Most of the "cash" job people likely have big safes in their home or workplace.


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## Pluto

Canadian said:


> It's pretty routine for them to ask questions with increasing counts of fraud and such. Frequent cash deposits can raise questions (especially if under $10k) because it alludes to fraudulent activity or money laundering - it's just how the bank teller's are trained to act/think. If you deposit those sums of cash frequently it's best to go to the same branch or two and/or have someone at the bank leave a note on your profile that you do this frequently (for a legitimate reason).
> 
> Disclosure: I used to work for a bank.


I'm curious, do the tellers have the jurisdiction to require you to answer? What's the procedure if one does not answer?


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## SkyFall

Pluto said:


> I'm curious, do the tellers have the jurisdiction to require you to answer? What's the procedure if one does not answer?


no jurisdiction, but if the teller is not comfortable with the transaction, he or she needs to go ask the help of a supervisor and if the supervisor is not comfortable they are allow to refuse to do the transaction.


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## Sherlock

AudiS4 said:


> If my parents give me 9K as a gift and I go to the bank with it why does someone need to be concerned with that. I think the answer like I said above is just to spend the cash. Meaning I guess use the money like I am a criminal so that no one thinks I am a criminal.


Would your parents be interested in adopting me? I could use 9k once in a while too.


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## kcowan

SkyFall said:


> You can deposit the cheque directly with waterhouse if you want to buy stocks as well...


This is the right solution. Then if the cheque bounces, the provisions of margin investing kick in automatically (they sell enough stocks to cover).


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## gt_23

Pluto said:


> I'm curious, do the tellers have the jurisdiction to require you to answer? What's the procedure if one does not answer?


If by jurisdiction you mean authority than the answer is no. However, they can forward your accounts to the bank's internal AML, fraud, or financial investigations unit for a closer look by someone a lot more qualified than a teller. But as usual, if you have nothing to hide, than there's nothing to worry about.

You can thank the terrorists for that...


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## lonewolf

There are a lot of people working under the table for cash to avoid taxes & or workers that are tipped that do not report earnings. The bank asking questions might help to catch some of these guys.


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## AudiS4

lonewolf, I doubt it would help. I know many people that work in the trades, many do side jobs for cash etc. They never ever ever put that money in the bank. it just isn't done.


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## jcgd

Sure it is. I take cash and issue an invoice and deposit it directly into the bank.


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## AudiS4

Okay so there is one guy out there doing it.


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## RBull

^he's doing it the legit way.


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## Plugging Along

It doesn't bother me at all. I used to do a lot of cash deposits because my tenants plied to pay in cash (we declared it all on our income), my family receives a lot of cash gifts, and generally we use cash a lot. It has never bothered me.

We have written many cheques back and forth over the years to each other. Often, if it was a major purchase or repair, and we didn't want to liquidate our investments, someone in the family would have the cash in their account and write a cheque. The other person would pay them back with a cheque or cash when it was the right time to liquidate. This has been for amounts from a few thousand to $100000. We have done this for private investments too. 

We are a really honest family, and everything is legit, so it doesn't bother me. I figure it is their job, if I am not doing anything wrongs what's the big deal. Also, how do they know I am not a criminal just because I don't look like one. Heck, they ask my 5 and 8 year old questions about where they get their money, and they are pretty harmless.


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## james4beach

They ask these questions because of FINTRAC.

Under FINTRAC, the tellers are obliged to report any transaction they feel is suspicious. They are likely reporting many of your cash transactions.

Unfortunately, this could potentially have effects such as impacting your border crossings and scrutiny by CRA. It's hard to tell, because the Canadian government is not transparent about FINTRAC.

Canada's privacy commissioner has already criticized the government for collecting too much personal info under FINTRAC, and this article describes some of the potential negative consequences you may be experiencing without even knowing it
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fintrac-collecting-too-much-info-on-innocent-canadians-1.2224595


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## james4beach

By the way, there's been a huge crackdown on "cash" in our modern world. I think this is part of increasing government efforts to keep everything electronic, to aid in monitoring private activities. For instance credit card transactions are beautiful for those monitoring us. (Governments buy credit card data, by the way)

There has long been a 10K reporting requirement when crossing international borders. 10K was the amount back in 1980, that's 34 years ago. That means that even assuming low inflation @ 3% (which is being generous) the current value should be around 30K. Yet it's still at 10K which means they've really constricted the amount tremendously.

Same with standard bank activities. It was not uncommon for people to deposit or withdraw amounts like $5k back in the 80s.  In today's dollars that's around $13k and very few people ever make transactions that large. For fun, some time, try withdrawing $15k in cash from the bank. Watch them freak out, this is not something they can handle even though in real dollar terms this was totally normal a couple decades ago.


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## carverman

lonewolf said:


> There are a lot of people working under the table for cash to avoid taxes & or workers that are tipped that do not report earnings. The bank asking questions might help to catch some of these guys.


Ah..so the banks really are working under cover for the gov't and CRA.


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## carverman

Plugging Along said:


> We have written many cheques back and forth over the years to each other. Often, if it was a major purchase or repair, and we didn't want to liquidate our investments, someone in the family would have the cash in their account and write a cheque. *The other person would pay them back with a cheque or cash when it was the right time to liquidate. This has been for amounts from a few thousand to $100000.* We have done this for private investments too.


Hmmm?..this is already raising suspicions in my mind and I'm not a "tell-er":biggrin:



> Also, *how do they know I am not a criminal just because I don't look like one.* Heck, they ask my 5 and 8 year old questions about where they get their money, and they are pretty harmless.


You don't have to show up with a bandana over your face or a Halloween mask to look like one. Criminals have many disguises.
Some can be sweet 65 year old retirees with their 5 and 8 year old grandchildren tagging along to make it look legit..
I'm not saying you are of that age P.A., just trying to illustrate a point here that suspicious activity such as money laundering
can look very legit if you know "how to play the game"..as they say. 

Now lets say I'm a tell-er (tell CRA)...and you show up in my bank with two little tots in tow, and plunk down a bankroll of
$100,000..I would be probably asking a "few questions" me self..

1. Are those your children?..or are you just using them as "props" to make yourself look more legit with this deposit?
2. How does a stay-at-home Mom (assumption here) get $100,000 in the first place?:highly_amused:


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## AudiS4

I guess everyone here is just a lot more comfortable with big brother than I am, simple as that.


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## Nemo2

AudiS4 said:


> I guess everyone here is just a lot more comfortable with big brother than I am, simple as that.


Is it as simple as that though? Abstainers might get pulled over, (along with everyone else), in a R.I.D.E. program...should they be offended because "Hey, I don't drink, why are you stopping _me_?"


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## Plugging Along

carverman said:


> Hmmm?..this is already raising suspicions in my mind and I'm not a "tell-er":biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to show up with a bandana over your face or a Halloween mask to look like one. Criminals have many disguises.
> Some can be sweet 65 year old retirees with their 5 and 8 year old grandchildren tagging along to make it look legit..
> I'm not saying you are of that age P.A., just trying to illustrate a point here that suspicious activity such as money laundering
> can look very legit if you know "how to play the game"..as they say.
> 
> Now lets say I'm a tell-er (tell CRA)...and you show up in my bank with two little tots in tow, and plunk down a bankroll of
> $100,000..I would be probably asking a "few questions" me self..
> 
> 1. Are those your children?..or are you just using them as "props" to make yourself look more legit with this deposit?
> 2. How does a stay-at-home Mom (assumption here) get $100,000 in the first place?:highly_amused:



Carve.... I am in total agreement with you. The banks can't tell who looks like a criminal or not, as there is not a 'face' of crime, so they have to ask the questions. I realize, and so does my family that we are not a normal family in a lot of financial ways. Our family helps each with out much question and would transfer money easily. 

Wrong assumption, not a stay a home mom, but that doesn't matter. The funny part was when I was making the $100k transfer I was on mat leave. The reason for the transfer was that we were just in the middle of closing on our condo purchase and the other stupid bank really screwed up, and accidentally closed all my accounts and had my money in 'transit' somewhere, and I needed the money for closing. So my brother wrote me a check to cover it for a few days so I could meet my closing. 3 more days after that, the other bank gave me my money bank, and I wrote the check back to my brother. The bank asked, I told them ,as I was furious with the other bank. It all checked out. 

We help all help our parents the same way. They are older, and have locked in gics. They was some emergencies where they had to repair the roof, furnace and a few other major things. Their term deposit was locked on for another six months, we just wrote them the cheque for it and when their term deposit came due, they paid us back. 

My point is that I know I am not doing anything wrong, so it shouldn't bother me that some asks as a part of their job as long as they do it in such a way that does not accuse me or my kids of something.


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## donald

most people(95%)don't zig-zag from branch to branch and use your home branch(the one that has your mortgage/investments/you identify on records as a home branch)
The same people have been employed at my home branch for years and honestly it's not unlike going to a restaurant you frequent.
my point being is if this is common(large cash deposits)the bank personal already "know" the habits and characteristics of a vast number of the clients.
Maybe intially(as your prehaps new to the branch)
I sometimes make larger cash deposits but never get questioned because I know the employees in my branch and they know me.
ain't this for most anyways...


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## steve41

There is another situation where a teller might ask questions..... if you are a frail, elderly woman withdrawing a largish sum of money, the teller might suspect that you may be being coerced into withdrawing the money by a son/grandson, etc. This actually happened to my wife, and the teller acknowledged they were trained to be aware of this kind of situation. This was in West Van, where there is a preponderance of wealthy seniors.


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## OnlyMyOpinion

steve41 said:


> There is another situation where a teller might ask questions..... if you are a frail, elderly woman withdrawing a largish sum of money, the teller might suspect that you may be being coerced into withdrawing the money by a son/grandson, etc. This actually happened to my wife, and the teller acknowledged they were trained to be aware of this kind of situation. This was in West Van, where there is a preponderance of wealthy seniors.


+ Good point, and a good policy in our opinion. So an elder going in should maybe expect some questions and not be too surprised. They should also remember that it is their money and not feel sheepish or put off for withdrawing it.


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## gt_23

AudiS4 said:


> I guess everyone here is just a lot more comfortable with big brother than I am, simple as that.


Better get used to it...only a matter of time until all financial institutions and gov't authorities are sharing information in the name of financial transparency.

Then the teller won't have to ask you those questions anymore since the Feds can just follow the money trail themselves.


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## AudiS4

I got stopped last holiday season at a check point, the officer asked if I had been driving, I said I had a drink 6 hours ago (which was the truth). It was -13c this night. I was in the police car for 45 minutes, while my wife in a dress sat in our car freezing. I blew 0.0, the officer was pissed, I was telling the truth and he didn't believe me. Probably while he had me stopped a couple of people over the limit went through, it was a complete joke.

The teller is not qualified to tell if what I am doing is suspicious, or illegal (it isn't anyway). 

Tonight I went to the grocery store with a grand in my wallet. I bought a few steaks etc, and spent $150. The kid at the checkout saw the money in my wallet, is this kid also supposed to report me for carrying money?

This thread puts me in mind of a Franklin quote "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. " I realize this is not an exact fit here, but wow people seem to be willing to give up a lot of personal information and privacy to get the guy laundering money probably form his vending machine business or side jobs.


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## cainvest

AudiS4 said:


> The teller is not qualified to tell if what I am doing is suspicious, or illegal (it isn't anyway).


Tellers do get some training to detect potential suspicious activity, that's all they need. In any case, it's a government regulation so you'd have to bring it up with them if you don't like it, the tellers are just doing their jobs. You can always keep the money at home, the banks/government aren't forcing you to deposit it.


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## AudiS4

Yeah it is easy to spend cash, no issue there, that really isn't the point.


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## Canadian

balexis said:


> Canadian/Daytek: are these answers systematically recorded in the customer's file?


Details are typically documented only in cases of suspected fraud. Clients can ask the teller to leave notes on the profile if they frequently do transactions that raise questions (i.e., receive large cheques from a particular source) - this is so any teller can easily understand the client's situation.



Pluto said:


> I'm curious, do the tellers have the jurisdiction to require you to answer? What's the procedure if one does not answer?


SkyFall summed it up pretty well in post #22. Additionally, the teller can refuse to process the transaction (with manager's approval) if they feel uncomfortable or suspect fraudulent activity.



steve41 said:


> There is another situation where a teller might ask questions..... if you are a frail, elderly woman withdrawing a largish sum of money, the teller might suspect that you may be being coerced into withdrawing the money by a son/grandson, etc.


+1

Asking questions has helped many clients from losing money. Another scenario that happens pretty frequently is the "mystery shopper scam." There are jobs posted online/classifieds/universities/etc. where the person will receive a cheque with instructions to cash the cheque (keep a portion as payment), complete some sort of survey based on the experience, and send the money to the "employer" via Western Union. The cheque will be returned as fraudulent and the client is left on the hook to replace the funds (if the account is then overdrawn).



AudiS4 said:


> The teller is not qualified to tell if what I am doing is suspicious, or illegal


Branch employees complete annual fraud training. Also, with a bit of experience it's pretty easy to tell if something is "off" with the client or the situation.

The reason more questions are asked is because a lot of fraud happens - frequency and magnitude are increasing, as is the complexity of the schemes. The questions aren't invasive and are asked to protect both parties from financial loss. Rather than being annoyed with the bank you should be annoyed with the fraudsters that cause the need for increased security.


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## OurBigFatWallet

When I took out $28k to pay for a vehicle purchase (all in cash) the bank manager had to come over to verify the amount and sign off on it. He "casually" asked what the money was for and I told him. He didn't seem too interested but it likely would have raised a flag or two if I didn't answer the question


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## Plugging Along

AudiS4 said:


> I got stopped last holiday season at a check point, the officer asked if I had been driving, I said I had a drink 6 hours ago (which was the truth). It was -13c this night. I was in the police car for 45 minutes, while my wife in a dress sat in our car freezing. I blew 0.0, the officer was pissed, I was telling the truth and he didn't believe me. Probably while he had me stopped a couple of people over the limit went through, it was a complete joke.
> 
> The teller is not qualified to tell if what I am doing is suspicious, or illegal (it isn't anyway).
> 
> Tonight I went to the grocery store with a grand in my wallet. I bought a few steaks etc, and spent $150. The kid at the checkout saw the money in my wallet, is this kid also supposed to report me for carrying money?
> 
> This thread puts me in mind of a Franklin quote "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. " I realize this is not an exact fit here, but wow people seem to be willing to give up a lot of personal information and privacy to get the guy laundering money probably form his vending machine business or side jobs.



Though that sucks about the checks to, it doesn't mean they should stop doing them. Same with airport security, I have been stopped for hours in the past, they found nothing, was I annoyed, sure because they caused me to missed my flight, but otherwise, it doesn't bother me.

I have always wondered from those who are really concerned with privacy and the lost of privacy wat are the exact impacts of someone knowing that you are going to be buying a car, or just got your rent in, or whatever. I would be concerned if they posted my name all over the internet these identifying information. I am actually more concerned with social media and posting details on face book, or twitter, or whatever than I am with a bank teller.


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## AudiS4

If you live in a small town where most people know most other people you might feel differently about being asked questions compared to someone who lives in Toronto.

Why are people not concerned with the losing privacy, if you can't have that what can you have? And who is to say that the bank teller is not a criminal?

When I was young I took my car to a Walmart to have the oil changed. When I went to pick it up things were off with the employees. It put me on edge. When I pulled away I saw a mechanic watching me standing there in the garage door. That night the stereo was stolen out of that car in my parents driveway. More damage was done to the car breaking in than the value of the stereo. And the passenger door was unlocked, but they broke in through the drivers door.


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## carverman

Plugging Along said:


> Carve.... I am in total agreement with you. The banks can't tell who looks like a criminal or not, as there is not a 'face' of crime, so they have to ask the questions. I realize, and so does my family that we are not a normal family in a lot of financial ways. Our family helps each with out much question and would transfer money easily.


Most families these days are fairly deep in debt, so you are outside the 'norm" with big deposits, for most banks out there.


> Wrong assumption, not a stay a home mom, but that doesn't matter.


Yes, I know that your are in the real estate game; Plugging, I was trying to be funny, but it probably didn't go over too well. ....sorry about the poor attempt at a joke here. :biggrin:



> The funny part was when I was making the $100k transfer I was on mat leave. The reason for the transfer was that we were just in the middle of closing on our condo purchase and the other stupid bank really screwed up, *and accidentally closed all my accounts and had my money in 'transit' somewhere, and I needed the money for closing.* So my brother wrote me a check to cover it for a few days so I could meet my closing. 3 more days after that, the other bank gave me my money back, and I wrote the check back to my brother. The bank asked, I told them ,as I was furious with the other bank. It all checked out.


I would be furious too, if that happened to me. I think I would be asking to see the branch manager and a apology forthcoming in writing from the bank. I'm not sure if you are aware of this "Plugging', but *each bank chain has an Ombudsman, that you can call to get matters straightened out with if it's a bank error that has put you into monetary problems temporarily.*

I had that happen to me once, my wallet got stolen and CIBC/President's Choice did NOT shut down my accounts, and some money got stolen from my LOC AFTER I called them advising them of what happened. 
At first the branch manager took the position it was my fault and I had not called the 1-800-CIBC number but later after I called the office of the ombudsman and sent them a registered letter, they apologized, investigated and refunded my money plus interest on what was stolen, but I had to call the CIBC Ombudsman and threaten lawsuit, (which was a hollow threat at the time) as it would have cost me more to hire a lawyer than what was stolen from me and I didn't have any money to hire a lawyer at the time, going through a very expensive divorce process.

http://www.cba.ca/en/component/content/category/44-resolving-problems-with-your-bank



> We help all help our parents the same way. They are older, and have locked in gics. They was some emergencies where they had to repair the roof, furnace and a few other major things. Their term deposit was locked on for another six months, we just wrote them the cheque for it and when their term deposit came due, they paid us back.


I understand. Normally checks rather than cash are the way we do banking business, and most banks don't always question when we make out a check for x thousand for a roofing job contractor in my town..as was in my case ($13,000) this year. I have a virtual bank (PC Financial), just write a check and it goes through..I never get called from PCF regarding checks..but I have never deposited anything over two or three thousand in cash money into the bank machine..and it doesn't ask those kind of questions...*It would be a cruel joke if it did. 

However, if I deposited more than $10k in cash, that Cash Transaction would generate a CTR by the CIBC computers as PCF uses the resources of CIBC..and I *could get* an email from my bank asking me to explain the background to the cash transaction. 




My point is that I know I am not doing anything wrong, so it shouldn't bother me that some asks as a part of their job as long as they do it in such a way that does not accuse me or my kids of something.

Click to expand...

LOL! Well you are the customer of the bank and should be treated with courtesy and politeness at all times.

Some branch tellers probably are compelled to ask those questions according to their training...
Banks deposit/withdrawal software will actually file a CTR (Cash Transaction Report) to the Feds..IRS or in Canada, the CRA The CTR generally only involves cash, but it is filed whenever >= $10,000 is deposited or withdrawn.

At Canadian banks as of 2003:
As of January 31, 2003 all of Canada's financial institutions:, including banks, credit unions, money services businesses, foreign exchanges and securities dealers, will be required by law to report large cash transactions in excess of 10K CDN to Canada's Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) or the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Center (FINTRAC)." 
A Transfer of $10K and above across Canada's borders are also required to be reported to CRA since 2003.

In the US the banks follow a process:
http://budgeting.thenest.com/happens-deposit-ten-grand-31132.html*


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## carverman

AudiS4 said:


> If you live in a small town where most people know most other people you might feel differently about being asked questions compared to someone who lives in Toronto.


You have a point. In the old days..(ahem! "old days"..refers to my age group too), 
you had a friendly teller face at the bank that knew you as a good bank customer and even would say hello
to you. Your branch was aware of your dealings and borrowing history..nowadays..the banks have temp workers and they change so often that the branch doesn't know you any more, other than the fact that you may have a bank acct (or two) with them. Most customers deal with ATM machines now..and those couldn't care less about you personally.



> Why are people not concerned with the losing privacy, if you can't have that what can you have? And who is to say that the bank teller is not a criminal?


Another good point you raised about "losing privacy" these days..with so many people on social media and other kinds of internet communication. "Privacy" as we used to know it, has taken on a different meaning altogether these days. You should still have some privacy though, for your bank financial records, (other than what the banks HAVE TO REPORT to the CRA) and your tax records, I believe.


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## cainvest

AudiS4 said:


> Why are people not concerned with the losing privacy, if you can't have that what can you have?


I don't see this as a big intrusion into ones privacy, simple question(s) with a simple answer(s). Make something up if you don't like to give the real answer. If this is a real major issue for you buy a safe and keep your money at home or try to get the government regulations changed, that's about all you can do.


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## james4beach

AudiS4 said:


> I guess everyone here is just a lot more comfortable with big brother than I am, simple as that.


I'm not happy or comfortable about it, but we are being monitored more than ever before. Government can't monitor cash transactions and therefore doesn't like them. There's even anti-cash propaganda, for instance in a CBC radio segment, I believe on The Current, the guest said:


> Cash it no longer used for traditional commerce. Its domain is increasingly crime, money laundering, terrorism
> Cash is generally not contributing positively to society ... of course some people will still want to hold onto cash: drug dealers probably, prostitutes


In the last city where I lived, I kept a large stash of paper currency in my bank safe deposit box. Instead of going through the hassle of being treated like a criminal for getting my OWN money, I simply go down to the box and "withdraw" however many thousand I want.


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## Eclectic12

carverman said:


> Another good point you raised about "losing privacy" these days..with so many people on social media and other kinds of internet communication. "Privacy" as we used to know it, has taken on a different meaning altogether these days.
> 
> You should still have some privacy though, for your bank financial records, (other than what the banks HAVE TO REPORT to the CRA) and your tax records, I believe.


 ... or what the bank has to report to the CRA so that they can forward it to the IRS ...


Cheers


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## carverman

cainvest said:


> I don't see this as a big intrusion into ones privacy, simple question(s) with a simple answer(s). Make something up if you don't like to give the real answer. If this is a real major issue for you buy a safe and keep your money at home or try to get the government regulations changed, that's about all you can do.


The big question is..why is it so important for CRA to know?..is it that they are afraid of losing tax dollars to an underground economy, which can be legitimate services or drug money laundering as well. 

I'm sure that if you have someone work for cash-no receipt under the table, they won't refuse
if they can keep it all without reporting it to CRA.


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## carverman

cainvest said:


> I don't see this as a big intrusion into ones privacy, simple question(s) with a simple answer(s). Make something up if you don't like to give the real answer. If this is a real major issue for you buy a safe and keep your money at home or try to get the government regulations changed, that's about all you can do.


But if you take out large amounts of cash to put in your safe, the bank (atm) will see that as a trend and flag your transactions as "possibly suspicious activity" and maybe report that to the gov't to followup on...
in their thinking, in today's "cashless society" why would you want to keep those large amounts of cash anyway?
....unless of course you are doing.......


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## kcowan

I think banks are fairly diligent about not facilitating money laundering. Several banks have gotten big fines for being facilitators.


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## marina628

I keep large amounts of cash on hand since 2003 when we had the power outage ,also my poker bankroll is north of $10,000 when I go to play .But even without that issue I never assume the ATM will work 100% of the time.


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## carverman

marina628 said:


> I keep large amounts of cash on hand since 2003 when we had the power outage ,also my poker bankroll is north of $10,000 when I go to play .But even without that issue I never assume the ATM will work 100% of the time.


Yes, you are right there Marina. I have come up to an ATM and it's down, 
or can't read my PIN (happened at a Loblaws Pres Choice ATM) or..
its out of money and can't dispense the amount you request.

Can't always count on them like you can a live smiling face.


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## kcowan

Bank when ATMs were fairly recent, I took great pride in being the one card kid: a TD Visa with Debit account access. What more did I need. Then one foggy Chrristmas Eve (actually Friday night before Christmas on Monday), I was using the Green Machine when it suddenly turned off (and the glass door came down) with my card inside. Calling the green phone, they cheerily told me that I could retrieve my card from that branch on Wednesday! I complained about my loss of the Visa card but that was not their department and they had no procedure for that. In those days there were no branches open on Saturday. I actually put a copy of my debit card stripe onto an old Scotia Visa card and used that in their machines. Got a few strange looks when I used it for Credit.

(In Turkey, I could only get cash via Visa cash advance, so I would put a credit balance on the card and head for their ATM to get some Lira.)


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## OhGreatGuru

marina628 said:


> Recently I deposited $63,000 all from gambling winnings and bulk was a cheque ,they wanted to place a hold on it even though it is a Ontario Casino and I asked them not to(got piles of money there at TD and doubt Port Perry Casino will go bust ).It put me off when she asked me what I planned to spend the money on that I couldn't wait the 5 days....


Putting a 5-day hold on a cheque of $63K is completely normal. It doesn't matter who the cheque appears to be from. Until it clears for payment back to the issuer, the bank doesn't know for sure that it isn't a forgery, and would be on the hook for any cash they issued for it. The fact that you were insisting on immediate payment only made it look that much more suspicious. I suspect her question was simply her way of saying "what's the hurry?"


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## OhGreatGuru

carverman said:


> ... I got some money from the will of a deceased relative. The payments had to be split up into 3 cheques because anything over 10K is reported by the bank to CRA (I think), who may then send you a inquiry letter to ask you how you came across that money..and if it is not a gift, then taxes could be owing on that.


This is a completely bogus reason for splitting up the payments. Even if under 10K, if the bank sees it as a pattern they can report it. Inheritances are not taxable income to the beneficiaries in Canada. It is possible that either the bank or FINTRAC might want a copy of the will; or a letter from the executor; explaining the payment, depending on the amount. But a legitimate beneficiary should have no difficulty producing this.


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## larry81

My ex bank put an old on anything over 10k, when i moved to my new bank i asked for a very high no-hold limit on deposit. In the last few years i had to deposit checks in the seven figures and there was no hold. The ladies at the counter sure are flirty but i never had any bad experience.

Make sure you present yourself to the branch manager. It pay to establish relationship and being courteous with the bank employee, this way you are in a better position to negotiate a better mortgage rate, lower fee's, etc.


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## chioken

Working as part-time teller at one of the Big5. Trust me, no teller wants to ask cause we know customers will flip out and start lecturing us on how it's none of our business. Any large cash dep under the $10,000 FINTRAC req. the teller will likely ask and informally document it on their receipt/voucher as a reference.

Tellers have very specific limits to follow. I need someone higher up to put a signature on the transaction slip for any cash withdrawals over $2K and deposits (whether it's cash & chq) $5K or over and I've worked for 1 yr and 1/2. My w/d limit was $1K when I first started so if you ever wonder why your teller suddenly wandered off after processing your transaction, they are going to get the manager's signature. The managers are notorious about putting their signature on slips and scrutinize everything because if anything goes wrong, whoever signs takes the hit along with the teller.

If I get a $7K cash dep and present it to my direct manager without listing the source on the slip, guess what? I get yelled at for not doing my job properly and not giving enough info for him/her to make a decision, so now I'm trapped in no-man's land and getting yelled at by both the manager and the customer. We aren't trying to give you a hard time at the time of deposit, just that we know the manager will never approve the transaction if we haven't written down anything down.

Sample of what info a manager wants (tellers totally have no say in this but to comply):
Cash w/d from a savings acc? How was it earned? Payroll? The profile says you're unemployed, can you update us with your employment info then? It was a loan paid back from your brother? For what? Do you mind giving me the name of your brother?

Tellers are just retail cashiers with no authority over anything and get the blunt of the anger for the shitty policies of the bank.

The best way to bypass this is to go to a branch that knows you (I mean the managers, not the tellers). If you have a dedicated account manager, all the better because anyone other than tellers have the authority to sign off on the slip (unless it's over the $10K FINTRAC req, then it needs to be filed as per gov regulations).


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