# Where should I park cash within TFSA/RRSP?



## Kaitlyn

I'm with TD Waterhouse and just wondering where I should park my cash before I buy other things.

If I'm buying efunds I may just go ahead and do that, but if I am buying stocks I don't want to put, say, $800 into a stock (it's not enough money yet...)

So, where do you park it in the meantime? Buy an eFund temporarily or something else? The eFunds do have the 90 day window, although it's also not like I am going to be taking out regularly. HOWEVER, if I do regularly put dividends into the eFunds, I could more easily lose track of that 90 day window...


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## Sampson

How much cash?

I typically leave anything I want to mobilize in an instant simply in 'high' interest savings that can move a the click of a button. When not available, like in registered plans, I let it collect nothing since I highly prize/value the liquidity.


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## Eclectic12

Depending on the amount, there are MFs that can be bought that are really HISA deposits with a Canadian bank paying 1.5% or so each month. Just make sure you've checked out which ones will charge an early redemption fee and which ones don't.

There's a bunch of threads about this but my search parameters aren't finding them. 

Here's what I was able to find quickly using Google:
http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/


Likely a search with the name of the account will find the CMF threads.


Cheers


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## CanadianCapitalist

Just to clarify: my post on high interest savings accounts may be a bit dated now. Renaissance High Interest Savings Accounts is now not available at TDW but TD's own savings accounts are. That's probably true of other brokers as well.


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## Eclectic12

Good point CC about the posting being dated.

The CMF search wasn't finding the latest threads that indicated this and in my rush to be at a meeting, used Google. 

Aren't you glad that Google has your dated post, up front of their search? :rolleyes2:


Cheers


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## Jets99

I'm in the same boat Kaitlyn.

In my Waterhouse account in registered plans I don't see a good alternative to HISA available.

So if I have cash more than $5K I'm parking it in bond ETFs. XBB, CBO, XLB. 

Not as liquid as leaving in cash but for 10 bucks I can move it out if I need to.

If less than $5K I leave it alone.


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## CanadianCapitalist

Jets99 said:


> I'm in the same boat Kaitlyn.
> 
> In my Waterhouse account in registered plans I don't see a good alternative to HISA available.


Yes, there is. It is called TD Investment Savings Account that can be purchased with mutual fund code TDB8150. Pays 1.25%. No cost to buy or sell and no minimum holding periods. Minimum investment is $1,000. A couple more that I mentioned in the following post are also available.

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/

I would not park cash in a bond ETF. They may be low risk but bonds do fluctuate in value and are not a suitable replacement for cash.


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## Young&Ambitious

Nice. I wish Questrade had something like that (crosses fingers hoping someone actually knows of such a high-interest savings account available with Questrade)!


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## KaeJS

Young&Ambitious said:


> Nice. I wish Questrade had something like that (crosses fingers hoping someone actually knows of such a high-interest savings account available with Questrade)!


Questrade used to pay interest on cash balances.
Due to the economy, they no longer provide interest on cash balances. 

I would assume when the economy picks up again, they will reintroduce this.


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## P_I

One of the more recent developments has been the tendency of the various discount brokers to reduce their HISA funds to only their own in house. I found that (MIP710) Manulife Trust Investment Savings Account has historically offered one of the best returns. Since sometime in the summer, TDW stopped allow new purchases of MIP710 and also allows their own in-house funds. 

Another useful resource is High-Interest Savings Accounts - finiki, the Canadian financial Wiki.


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## My Own Advisor

@Kaitlyn,

Do you really want to keep it with TDW? If so, CC has the right idea.

If not, you can always keep the money in PCF, getting about 1.35%.:
http://www.banking.pcfinancial.ca/a/rates/savingsPlusAccountRate.page?refId=sidenav

You make TDW a bill payment and transfer money that way


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## Eclectic12

^^^^

This idea might be fine for a TFSA - assuming one has room to withdraw and re-contribute (or wait until Jan 1st, 2013 to re-contribute). 

I'm not so sure it's worth the effort for an RRSP. A withdrawal will have a tax bill associated with it.


One could request a transfer ... but the last time I did an "in-kind" RRSP transfer, that took a couple of months. If a stock looks good, even a short RRSP transfer of a month is IMO, not worth it.


Of course if it is new cash that is being contributed, the PCF TFSA is currently paying 1.4%, with a small anniversary bonus, if the average balance is over $1K.
http://www.banking.pcfinancial.ca/a/rates/tfsaRate.page?refId=sidenav

Cheers


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## Eclectic12

Young&Ambitious said:


> Nice. I wish Questrade had something like that (crosses fingers hoping someone actually knows of such a high-interest savings account available with Questrade)!


It's a specialised Money Market Fund so I'm not sure why Questrade wouldn't offer one or more of them. It might have a holding period and might have a fee for buying, though.

Questrade's web site under the "Questrade's Mutual Funds" -> "Manulife Financial" list MIP510-MANULIFE BANK INVESTMENT SAVINGS ACCOUNT.


Cheers


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## GoldStone

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Yes, there is. It is called TD Investment Savings Account that can be purchased with mutual fund code TDB8150. Pays 1.25%. No cost to buy or sell and no minimum holding periods. *Minimum investment is $1,000.*


It appears that $1000 minimum does not apply to TD Waterhouse accounts.

I bought about $300 worth of TDB8150 in my TDW TFSA just the other month. It was the initial purchase. I never owned TDB8150 in that particular account.

I just tried to place a $100 order for TDB8159, a sister HISA fund of TDB8150. It went through just fine all the way to final order page (I didn't hit Submit). I backtracked and changed the amount to $99. I got an error about the minimum allowed.


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## webber22

The four accounts (TDB8150 TDB8155 TDB8157 TDB8159) represent 4 separate entities for CIDC insurance purposes, so one person can hold $400k in insured HISAs (and 400k more in a joint account)
The $10 NAV also allows for margin flexibility similar to money market funds


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## CanadianCapitalist

GoldStone said:


> It appears that $1000 minimum does not apply to TD Waterhouse accounts.


Good to know. I just purchased some the other day and seem to recall seeing a $1,000 minimum. I stand corrected.


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## GoldStone

CanadianCapitalist said:


> seem to recall seeing a $1,000 minimum


You probably saw it here:

http://www.tdassetmanagement.com/Content/Products/p_LandingPage.asp?PID=27

It's the first page you hit when you google TDB8150. It does state in black and white that the minimum investment is $1000. I guess it only applies to the clients with TDAM mutual fund accounts.


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## Jets99

TD Investment Savings Account TDB8150

Fund is Open to New Investors 
Initial Investment(s) $1,000 
Subsequent Investment(s) $100 
Initial RRSP Investment(s) $1,000 
Subsequent RRSP Investment(s) $100


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## avrex

P_I said:


> One of the more recent developments has been the tendency of the various discount brokers to reduce their HISA funds to only their own in house.


In my Scotia iTrade account, I parked additional cash in TD Investment Savings Account – TDB8150.
That's right. The in-house Scotia iTrade Cash Optimizer only pays 0.65%, so ironically, I was forced to utilize Scotia's competitor, TD, within the my Scotia broker account.


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## CanadianCapitalist

Avrex: Can you please check if you TDB8155 and TDB8159 are available at Scotia iTrade? Also, what about RBF2001, RBF2010, MIP710, MIP510, DYN500, NBC100, ATL5000? Any fees to buy and sell these? Any minimum holding periods? Thanks.


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## gibor365

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Avrex: Can you please check if you TDB8155 and TDB8159 are available at Scotia iTrade?


I don't know about BNS, but in CM I can buy ATL5000, TDB8150 or any other TDW similar funds I cannot buy online, but some time ago I talked on the phone with rep, who said that I should be able to buy TDB8150 (probably need to call).... so I bought ATL5000 online


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## jnk

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Avrex: Can you please check if you TDB8155 and TDB8159 are available at Scotia iTrade? Also, what about RBF2001, RBF2010, MIP710, MIP510, DYN500, NBC100, ATL5000? Any fees to buy and sell these? Any minimum holding periods? Thanks.


There was early redemption fee in iTrade with all or most of those except for DYN500


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## CanadianCapitalist

gibor said:


> I don't know about BNS, but in CM I can buy ATL5000


Thanks gibor. Good to know. It makes sense as Renaissance is CIBC-owned.

Here's what I have so far:
TD Waterhouse: TDB8150, TDB8155, TDB8159.
CIBC Investor's Edge: ATL5000. It may be possible to buy other accounts by phoning in.
Scotia iTrade: TDB8150.
RBC Direct: RBF2001, RBF2010.
Questrade: RBF2001, RBF2010, MIP510, MIP710, ATL5000, DYN550, NBC100.
BMO InvestorLine: ??


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## avrex

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Avrex: Can you please check if you TDB8155 and TDB8159 are available at Scotia iTrade? Also, what about RBF2001, RBF2010, MIP710, MIP510, DYN500, NBC100, ATL5000? Any fees to buy and sell these? Any minimum holding periods? Thanks.


CC, here's what I see as available at *Scotia iTrade.*

TDB8150 Yes
TDB8155 Yes
TDB8159 Yes
RBF2001 * No*
RBF2010 Yes
MIP710 Yes
MIP510 Yes
DYN500 Yes
NBC100 Yes
ATL5000 Yes

In all cases above:
- there are no commissions. 
- the Initial minimum deposit is $2,000

As far as minimum holding period, it doesn't state specifically, when you purchase each individual fund above. (It states that there *'may'* be early redemption fees.) However, I think we should assume that there is a 90 day holding period, for all of the above funds, based on the fine print at the bottom of the webpage that reads:

If you redeem or switch your mutual fund within 90 days of the purchase date, there are two fees that may be relevant to you: 
(1) Early Redemption Transaction fees may be charged and deducted from the settlement amount by some mutual fund companies including Scotia Mutual Funds. Please refer to the prospectus of each fund for details. 
(2) Scotia iTRADE will charge an Early Redemption Fee of 1% (min. $38.88) to your Scotia iTRADE account. However, redemptions of Scotia Money Market Funds, Dynamic Money Market Funds, and all Scotia Mutual Funds are excluded and will not be charged the Scotia iTRADE early redemption fee.


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## jnk

The broker I spoke with said there was no early redemption fee for DYN500. All others I believe it was 1% with a min. of $38.88 if redeemed within 90 days.


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## gibor365

I don't know about other banks, but TDW for sure doesn't charge ERF for TDB8150... 1 time I sold it just several days after buy and didn't get charged anything...
I'm not sure about ATL5000 in CM. CC do you know?


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## CanadianCapitalist

gibor said:


> I don't know about other banks, but TDW for sure doesn't charge ERF for TDB8150... 1 time I sold it just several days after buy and didn't get charged anything...
> I'm not sure about ATL5000 in CM. CC do you know?


TDW used to offer ATL5000. No fees and no minimum holding periods. I believe it is true of TDB* funds as well. I don't know about CIBC Investors Edge because my accounts are with TDW.

From the wording posted by avrex, it seems clear that only DYN* funds won't have any early redemption fees at Scotia iTrade. It seems unreasonable to me to levy early redemption fees on other HISAs.

Interestingly, Scotia says it offers a whole bunch of HISAs. According to this page, they offer DYN 400, 450, 500, 550, 575, 1300, 1301, 1350, 1351. Some of these are surely F-series but I couldn't find online information on the DYN575 and above.

http://ads.scotiabank.com/product-descriptions.aspx


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## avrex

I just confirmed the following with the Scotia iTRADE costumer service rep.

With *TDB8150*, you will be charged the 90 day Early Redemption Fee. Booo.

If you redeem or switch your mutual fund within 90 days of the purchase date, there are two fees that may be relevant to you: 
(1) Early Redemption Transaction fees may be charged and deducted from the settlement amount by some mutual fund companies including Scotia Mutual Funds. Please refer to the prospectus of each fund for details. 
(2) Scotia iTRADE will charge an Early Redemption Fee of 1% (min. $38.88) to your Scotia iTRADE account. However, redemptions of Scotia Money Market Funds, Dynamic Money Market Funds, and all Scotia Mutual Funds are excluded and will not be charged the Scotia iTRADE early redemption fee.


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## gibor365

Confirmed with CM, no ERF charges on ATL5000


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## CanadianCapitalist

avrex said:


> With *TDB8150*, you will be charged the 90 day Early Redemption Fee. Booo.


+1. I checked with my source at iTrade a while ago. All deposit accounts except DYN500 will be charged an early redemption fee. Also, I asked why DYN1300 and DYN1350 are not on the list and my understanding is that a request has been put in to add those.


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## james4beach

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Yes, there is. It is called TD Investment Savings Account that can be purchased with mutual fund code TDB8150. Pays 1.25%. No cost to buy or sell and no minimum holding periods. Minimum investment is $1,000. A couple more that I mentioned in the following post are also available.


I also use this one, TDB8150 at TDW... perfect for padding your account such that excess cash earns something. I think the minimum investment amount varies for registered versus non-registered (the $1,000 minimum applies for non-registered). I've also previously held the similar RBC ISA product at TDW.

It's just cash savings, so much more appropriate than any ETF for short-term holdings. It settles in T+1.

I'm still slightly nervous about these products. They're 'savings accounts' in the broker name, spread out among broker account holders... someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this structure is relatively new.

The one thing it reminds me of is "brokered CDs" in the USA (i.e. brokered GICs) and that's what makes me nervous, because when US banks started failing there were a few cases where brokered CDs became problematic in FDIC recoveries and insurance payouts. I'm a bit nervous about what happens if the bank where you hold the "ISA" fails, and you need to make a CDIC claim. I don't think this product has ever been tested in Canada. Looking to the US example, I assure you there were problems with their similar product. Google around a bit or even see the FDIC's own page on this, http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/certificate/

I know that bank failure is an unlikely scenario, but there is indeed a risk involved especially with the uncertainty of a new product. If you phone the CDIC and ask them specifically about the product (I have), they won't commit to anything. They just repeat the CDIC guidelines. What you have to realize is that even though something like the ISA (TDB8150 or similar) are "CDIC eligible" doesn't mean it's going to be 100% smooth CDIC process, nor does anyone step up and automatically start paying you out your money. If you think I'm overreacting, again please read up on the FDIC experience with brokered CDs.

I care about risk because I'm paid to do so, and I'm sharing a genuine professional concern here. Based on the problems the FDIC had with co-mingled depository accounts that were similar to Canadian ISAs at brokerages (and given that some investors lost their "FDIC insured deposits" and others are caught in ongoing complex legal processes), I would say that these ISA products at the brokerages carry more risk than real savings accounts in your own name at the bank directly. They're not a terrible product, but in all honesty if solvency problems started at Canadian banks, I would recommend to clients that they sell and withdraw the ISAs


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## CanadianCapitalist

james4beach said:


> I care about risk because I'm paid to do so, and I'm sharing a genuine professional concern here. Based on the problems the FDIC had with co-mingled depository accounts that were similar to Canadian ISAs at brokerages (and given that some investors lost their "FDIC insured deposits" and others are caught in ongoing complex legal processes), I would say that these ISA products at the brokerages carry more risk than real savings accounts in your own name at the bank directly. They're not a terrible product, but in all honesty if solvency problems started at Canadian banks, I would recommend to clients that they sell and withdraw the ISAs


I don't think you are over-reacting at all considering we've been through the credit crisis with too-big-to-fail financial institutions collapsing and even more recently the collapse of MF Global where clients experienced a shortfall in their accounts.

However, IMHO, it is moot to worry about TD ISA (which seems to work exactly like broker sold GICs, CSBs etc.) in TFSA/RRSP accounts because these are trust accounts with the account holder the beneficiary.

For deposits in taxable accounts, I think it is reasonable to worry about these issues. Perhaps, a solution would be to drain cash into a savings account held in owner name like ING Direct, Ally or even TD Bank.


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## james4beach

CanadianCapitalist said:


> For deposits in taxable accounts, I think it is reasonable to worry about these issues.


Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You're right about MF Global etc. Actually there's been several broker blowups in the last few years: Refco, MF Global, and PFG come to mind. It paints a horrible track record for brokers and their inability to make good on client funds.

This taxable vs sheltered trust account observation is a very good point, I had not thought of that before. Thanks!


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## CanadianCapitalist

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Also, I asked why DYN1300 and DYN1350 are not on the list and my understanding is that a request has been put in to add those.


Good news for Scotia iTrade customers. DYN1300 (CAD) and DYN 1350 (USD) are now available for purchase on Scotia iTrade.


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## humble_pie

i for one am pleased to see james4beach's well-written warnings on these products. He has posted at least one such message before.

it doesn't mean, of course, that anyone should dash out & sell his broker savings account PDQ or otherwise run around shouting The Sky Is Falling. It's obvious that james does not mean this in the least.

what it does mean to me is another reminder that the world of finance is full of risks & pitfalls. It's a post-it note saying that the relative fragility of these possibly-uninsured accounts is something to be kept in mind.


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## avrex

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Good news for Scotia iTrade customers. DYN1300 (CAD) and DYN 1350 (USD) are now available for purchase on Scotia iTrade.


That is good news.
Plus, I'll be able to redeem them without penalty (i.e. no 90 day early redemption fee.)

The only thing I'm not sure about is the rate of return. I'm guessing based on similar products, it is,
DYN1300 (CAD) 1.25%
DYN1350 (USD) 0.20% ??
(I can't seem to find anything on the scotia website)

*Update:* I just tried to buy DYN1300 (CAD). The Scotia website would not allow me to continue. I received the following error message:
The Fund Symbol entered may be invalid or is not available for online order entry. Please re-enter the Fund Symbol or select Symbol Search to find the correct symbol. For assistance, please contact Scotia iTRADE at 1-888-872-3388 or your Investment Executive.
It looks like DYN1350 (USD) will work.

The 90 day redemption period of my TDB8150 holding, doesn't end until Feb. So, I'll try again buying DYN1300, at that time.


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## CanadianCapitalist

DYN1300 (CDN) - 1.25%
DYN1350 (USD) - 0.20%

No minimum holding periods and no early redemption fees. Not sure why DYN1300 is not available yet. I'll check with iTrade.


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## avrex

Thanks, CC!


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## Scotia_iTRADE

avrex said:


> *Update:* I just tried to buy DYN1300 (CAD). The Scotia website would not allow me to continue. I received the following error message:
> The Fund Symbol entered may be invalid or is not available for online order entry. Please re-enter the Fund Symbol or select Symbol Search to find the correct symbol. For assistance, please contact Scotia iTRADE at 1-888-872-3388 or your Investment Executive.


Hi Avrex,

My name is Nabil and I work for Scotia iTRADE. 

Thank you for sharing the error message on your buy order here. The fund symbol has been added for online execution. 

If you encounter any difficulty placing the order, please contact our Trading Desk at 1.888.872.3388 for us to investigate this further. 

Thanks,

-Nabil | [email protected]


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## avrex

Hi Nabil,
I hadn't had a chance to call in this issue into your help/trading desk. But, you are obviously on top of this issue.

I just had a quick look at the Scotia iTrade website, and yes, it looks like it will accept my order for DYN1300 (CAD).
(Now can you forgive my 90 day early redemption period for my TDB8150 holding.  )

Thanks for your responsiveness to correcting the DYN1300 issue.


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## Jungle

I don't understand why ITrade has a 90 day hold on all mutual funds, including money market.. Sounds like an out-dated policy.


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## arc

I have CIBC and I wanted to park some cash in the ALT5000, I was told that there MAY be a redemption fee? Where do I find out if it does?


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## bluenote

Can anyone recommend one to use with a questrade RRSP? I can't seem to find how I would purchase.
thanks


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## 6811

avrex said:


> Hi Nabil,
> I hadn't had a chance to call in this issue into your help/trading desk. But, you are obviously on top of this issue.
> 
> I just had a quick look at the Scotia iTrade website, and yes, it looks like it will accept my order for DYN1300 (CAD).
> (Now can you forgive my 90 day early redemption period for my TDB8150 holding.  )
> 
> Thanks for your responsiveness to correcting the DYN1300 issue.


Hi Avrex,

I put in an online order for DYN1300 (CAN) in my iTrade RRSP account last night. Although iTrade accepted the order, and my account appears to be debited the correct amount, the transaction does not show up anywhere in my account details. Wonder how long it will stay in Neverland?


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## AltaRed

6811 said:


> Hi Avrex,
> 
> I put in an online order for DYN1300 (CAN) in my iTrade RRSP account last night. Although iTrade accepted the order, and my account appears to be debited the correct amount, the transaction does not show up anywhere in my account details. Wonder how long it will stay in Neverland?


HISA funds have a T+1 settlement. If you put in the order after hours last night, it actually was not placed until today (and thus the funds deduction today). You will not own the HISA until Friday, and it may not show up in your account until Friday night.


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## 6811

Thanks for the info AltaRed,

On viewing my trade order screen late this morning I found it shown as a confirmed order, so not completely lost


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## pwm

My HISA at ALLY just dropped to 1.2% so I'm re-examining where to park my cash. When I go to WebBroker and look at TDB8150/8155/8159 I don't see any numbers in the _"Dist. Yield" _or in any other fields for that matter. How do you determine the yield on these things?


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## GoldStone

Start entering an order for TDB8150/8155/8159. Click 'Get Quote' on the first screen. The quote shows the current rate. 1.25%


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## pwm

Thanks. It's not a bad yield, and considering the simplicity, I might use it like I did with the MM fund.


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## gibor365

However for US$ TDB8152 , rate is ridiculously low at 0.2%


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## james4beach

Also remember that US deposits are not CDIC insured.

If you have large USD cash amounts, consider changing them to CAD and using the TDB8150 (higher interest rate and CDIC insured). The forex spread isn't too bad with TDW


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## gibor365

james4beach said:


> Also remember that US deposits are not CDIC insured.
> 
> If you have large USD cash amounts, consider changing them to CAD and using the TDB8150 (higher interest rate and CDIC insured). The forex spread isn't too bad with TDW


I very doubt that TDW will go bankruptcy  
I just sold some TD funds in my RRSP and did Norbert gambit with TD-T/TD-N... so all proceeds should go to US MM, and will be buying some US dividend stocks/ETFs.... just interest on US MM 0.03%  ... so was thinking to park for now in TDB8152 , but interest not much better 0.2% (in $ value )


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## james4beach

I doubt it too. But then again, by that logic, we don't need CDIC insurance at any of the big banks, right?


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## gibor365

james4beach said:


> I doubt it too. But then again, by that logic, we don't need CDIC insurance at any of the big banks, right?


No, we don't  CDIC useful in my opinion for small credit unions... If any of big 6 Canadian banks will go bankrupt, all country will go bankrupt including CDIC and in this case you won't need a money, but guns and buzukas ..... seriously, where CDIC will "find" those billions of $$$?!


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## 6811

CanadianCapitalist said:


> DYN1300 (CDN) - 1.25%
> DYN1350 (USD) - 0.20%
> 
> No minimum holding periods and no early redemption fees. Not sure why DYN1300 is not available yet. I'll check with iTrade.


On reviewing the rates for these ISa's I came across mention of a "Trailer Fee" of .25% on Series A (http://ads.scotiabank.com/rates.aspx - 'Current Investment Savings Accounts Rates') I don't recall seeing a couple of weeks ago. Does this mean I'm going to be dinged on redemption after all?:frown:


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## Squash500

6811 said:


> On reviewing the rates for these ISa's I came across mention of a "Trailer Fee" of .25% on Series A (http://ads.scotiabank.com/rates.aspx - 'Current Investment Savings Accounts Rates') I don't recall seeing a couple of weeks ago. Does this mean I'm going to be dinged on redemption after all?:frown:


 No IMHO you won't get dinged. The .25% trailer is already taken out before you buy the fund. Therefore you will still get the 1.25% rate. However this 1.25% rate could change at any time.


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## Dave

I am confused about TDB8150. I read their prospectus on the TD website and they say that there are no maturity dates or locked in periods as discussed in the thread above. I want to buy it for my mum for some cash that she has in ther TDW TFSA. I have a similar product (the Altamire cash saver, NBC100) in my national bank account and there are also no fees locked in periods. However, I am not sure if I will be able to purchase it with TDW.

Dave

Link: http://www.tdassetmanagement.com/images2/TD ISA Product Features.pdf


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## Spudd

You can.


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## james4beach

Dave said:


> I am confused about TDB8150. I read their prospectus on the TD website and they say that there are no maturity dates or locked in periods as discussed in the thread above. I want to buy it for my mum for some cash that she has in ther TDW TFSA.


I don't think TDB8150 has any locked in periods, where did you see that info?

I have been using it for over a year in TDW and every time I've been able to sell with T+1 settlement (cash available next day).


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## liquidfinance

I was having a look at options for parking cash within Questrade but it seems they have a $9.95 fee to purchase so not really worth it


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## cainvest

*Dyn1300*



CanadianCapitalist said:


> DYN1300 (CDN) - 1.25%
> DYN1350 (USD) - 0.20%
> 
> No minimum holding periods and no early redemption fees. Not sure why DYN1300 is not available yet. I'll check with iTrade.


Was looking to park some cash in DYN1300 but saw a trailer fee of 0.25%. Is this trailer fee, done at the sale I gather, covered by BNS or by us?


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## CanadianCapitalist

The interest rates are net of trailer fees. All these funds pay a trailer fee that the broker eats.


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## cainvest

*desHaut passages*



CanadianCapitalist said:


> The interest rates are net of trailer fees. All these funds pay a trailer fee that the broker eats.


Excellent, Thanks!


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## jmarks

Scotia iTrade HIS update.
After speaking to a couple of reps. at Scotia, it's obvious their people need some training. Several didn't have a clue about these funds and had to keep being put on hold while they asked others questions.

In the end there are only two HIS's that can be bought/sold without fee's including early redemption. They are DYN500 and DYN1300.

http://ads.scotiabank.com/files/ISA-Comparison-Table_Eng.pdf


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## avrex

I just noticed that DYN550 (Series F) and DYN1301 (Series F) pay out 1.50%.
It looks like I can't purchase Series F through my discount broker.

Who can buy series F? Financial advisors?


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## cainvest

jmarks said:


> Scotia iTrade HIS update.
> After speaking to a couple of reps. at Scotia, it's obvious their people need some training. Several didn't have a clue about these funds and had to keep being put on hold while they asked others questions.


I believe the reason is those ISAs only show up on the trading screen and not in any of the quote/research areas. I gather very few people are using the DYN ISAs and probably just get told to use the iTrade Cash Optimizer account at 0.65%.


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## GoldStone

avrex said:


> I just noticed that DYN550 (Series F) and DYN1301 (Series F) pay out 1.50%.
> It looks like I can't purchase Series F through my discount broker.
> 
> Who can buy series F? Financial advisors?


Yes. FAs only.


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## Dave

avrex said:


> Who can buy series F? Financial advisors?


I just tried to buy it and got the message that only sell transactions are allowed.


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## My Own Advisor

If only $1,000 or $2,000, why bother? Just keep in cash and then invest soon enough.

If wanting to keep $5,000+ in cash in an investment account (not sure why) but if you do, I suppose CC's ideas are the best:

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/


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## avrex

*Scotiabank - DYN1300, DYN500*

It was a little disconcerting when I see the rate of return of 0.00%, in the upper-right corner.
I know that it used to say 1.25%.

In either case, I believe it is still 1.25%, based on the calculation that I did in my own account.

For those interested, here is the Scotiabank - Investment Savings Accounts (ISAs) document.
It also hasn't changed and still shows 1.25%


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## AltaRed

There is nothing unusual about the Scotia iTrade HISA items. Brokerages may not know what each HISA provides in interest rate performance because they are not true mutual funds (with published performance criteria), nor stocks/ETFs (again with published performance criteria). The brokerages would have to make a concerted effort to know what the individual current interest rates are. I also have accounts with BMO IL and RBC DI and only BMO IL publishes current HISA interest rates of the 3. 

AFAIK, discount brokerages ONLY provide their own HISAs fee free (within 90 days), and not the others. I use DYN at Scotia iTrade, ATT at BMO IL, and RBC at RBC DI for these reasons. And yes, one can only buy the A series - F series is limited to FA's.


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## james4beach

Thanks very much for those links to the iTrade ISA document, I had not seen that before.

I feel silly now because I've been keeping cash in a scotia 'power savings' account 1.1% when it looks like I could just transfer it into my itrade account, use DYN1300 and get 1.25%

Do I have that right? Comparing to my scotia savings account, it's the same issuer (Bank of Nova Scotia), no fee, higher interest rate... and only difference being T+1 settlement instead of instant settlement with the real savings account?


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## avrex

don't feel bad. I used to keep my cash in Scotia iTrade's Cash Optimizer account, with it's 0.65% interest. 

Yes, I believe that you have it right. 
- 1.25%. 
- There is no early redemption fee, as it is a BNS (Bank of Nova Scotia) associated product. 
- And for me T+1 settlement is close enough to instant cash.


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## AltaRed

avrex said:


> don't feel bad. I used to keep my cash in Scotia iTrade's Cash Optimizer account, with it's 0.65% interest.


And you can buy DYN HISAs right in your Cash Optimizer account... or close that one and keep virtually all your spare cash in DYN in your main Cash account.


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## Eclectic12

avrex said:


> ... Yes, I believe that you have it right.
> - 1.25%.
> - There is no early redemption fee, as it is a BNS (Bank of Nova Scotia) associated product.
> - And for me T+1 settlement is close enough to instant cash.


It might be even better than T+1 in a registered account.

I tested in my RRSP where there was not enough cash to buy what I wanted and the account allowed the buy with a warning that I need to sell some of the HISA to pay for it by end of day.

In a cash account, with the trade being T+3, T+1 is plenty of time to convert to cash.

Cheers


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## avrex

Eclectic12 said:


> In a cash account, with the trade being T+3, T+1 is plenty of time to convert to cash.Cheers


Exactly!


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## goose7201

avrex said:


> don't feel bad. I used to keep my cash in Scotia iTrade's Cash Optimizer account, with it's 0.65% interest.
> 
> Yes, I believe that you have it right.
> - 1.25%.
> - There is no early redemption fee, as it is a BNS (Bank of Nova Scotia) associated product.
> - And for me T+1 settlement is close enough to instant cash.


Sorry to bump an older thread. I'm new to CMF. Lots of great info here.

I have accounts at Scotia iTrade and recently had put some idle cash into DYN1300 for a short term hold. As noted here (and on many other sites), other users have confirmed there are no fees for this product at iTrade. 

However, I went to sell all of my DYN1300 holdings this week as I needed the cash and the dialogue box showed a $38.88 commission to sell. To make a long story short, I called iTrade and was advised (after being put on hold a number of times) that there is an early redemption fee on DYN1300 as it was "not a money market fund nor a Scotia mutual fund." According to this rep, there is a 90 minimum hold period. The rep eventually credited me with the $38.88 commission as I had an email from a Sr. Investment Rep (received prior to purchasing) "confirming" there were no fees nor a minimum hold period for this product. He said he would credit my account as I had been provided with "incorrect" information. Upon settlement, I noted that indeed a commission had been charged and was "manually" credited back.

Has anybody else encountered this? It seems the fee was system generated and indeed would have been charged had I not contacted iTrade.


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## 6811

goose7201 said:


> However, I went to sell all of my DYN1300 holdings this week as I needed the cash and the dialogue box showed a $38.88 commission to sell. To make a long story short, I called iTrade and was advised (after being put on hold a number of times) that there is an early redemption fee on DYN1300 as it was "not a money market fund nor a Scotia mutual fund." According to this rep, there is a 90 minimum hold period. The rep eventually credited me with the $38.88 commission as I had an email from a Sr. Investment Rep (received prior to purchasing) "confirming" there were no fees nor a minimum hold period for this product. He said he would credit my account as I had been provided with "incorrect" information. Upon settlement, I noted that indeed a commission had been charged and was "manually" credited back.
> 
> Has anybody else encountered this? It seems the fee was system generated and indeed would have been charged had I not contacted iTrade.


Out of curiosity, was your transaction in a registered or a non-registered account? I have not run into this commission fee in any of the transactions that I've made in my I*Trade registered accounts, but I have not sold any DYN in my cash account so can't comment.


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## avrex

goose7201 said:


> I went to sell all of my DYN1300 holdings this week as I needed the cash and the dialogue box showed a $38.88 commission to sell. To make a long story short, I called iTrade and was advised (after being put on hold a number of times) that there is an early redemption fee on DYN1300 as it was *"not a money market fund nor a Scotia mutual fund."* According to this rep, there is a 90 minimum hold period. The rep eventually credited me with the $38.88 commission as I had an email from a Sr. Investment Rep (received prior to purchasing) "confirming" there were no fees nor a minimum hold period for this product. He said he would credit my account as I had been provided with "incorrect" information. Upon settlement, I noted that indeed a commission had been charged and was "manually" credited back.


This concerns me. There seems to be a conflict between what you were told and the Scotia iTrade notes, below.

If you redeem or switch your mutual fund within 90 days of the purchase date, there are two fees that may be relevant to you: 
(1) Early Redemption Transaction fees may be charged and deducted from the settlement amount by some mutual fund companies including Scotia Mutual Funds. Please refer to the prospectus of each fund for details. 
(2) Scotia iTRADE will charge an Early Redemption Fee of 1% (min. $38.88) to your Scotia iTRADE account. However, redemptions of Scotia Money Market Funds, *Dynamic Money Market Funds*, and all Scotia Mutual Funds are excluded and *will not be charged the Scotia iTRADE early redemption fee.* 

I don't believe you or any investors should be charged for early redemption of any of: DYN1300 (CAD), DYN1350 (USD), DYN500 (CAD), DYN400 (USD)

Here is the Investment Savings Accounts (ISAs) summary. There is no early redemption fee mentioned.


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## AltaRed

I buy and sell portions of my DYN500 every month in my Scotia iTrade non-registered account and have never incurred a fee. Think someone in iTrade's back office screwed that up.


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## lightcycle

AltaRed said:


> I buy and sell portions of my DYN500 every month in my Scotia iTrade non-registered account and have never incurred a fee. Think someone in iTrade's back office screwed that up.


Funds are sold on a first in, first out basis. If you didn't liquidate all your holdings, perhaps the portion you sold had already past the early redemption date.


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## AltaRed

lightcycle said:


> Funds are sold on a first in, first out basis. If you didn't liquidate all your holdings, perhaps the portion you sold had already past the early redemption date.


I do know what you mean, but no, I often move out more than I put in just 15-30 days earlier. But I never cash out completely.


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## goose7201

6811 said:


> Out of curiosity, was your transaction in a registered or a non-registered account? I have not run into this commission fee in any of the transactions that I've made in my I*Trade registered accounts, but I have not sold any DYN in my cash account so can't comment.


Transaction was in a non-registered cash account. 

I've sent an email to iTrade requesting confirmation as the info given contradicted the written info previously provided by them. I'll update once I've received a reply.


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## goose7201

avrex said:


> This concerns me. There seems to be a conflict between what you were told and the Scotia iTrade notes, below.
> 
> If you redeem or switch your mutual fund within 90 days of the purchase date, there are two fees that may be relevant to you:
> (1) Early Redemption Transaction fees may be charged and deducted from the settlement amount by some mutual fund companies including Scotia Mutual Funds. Please refer to the prospectus of each fund for details.
> (2) Scotia iTRADE will charge an Early Redemption Fee of 1% (min. $38.88) to your Scotia iTRADE account. However, redemptions of Scotia Money Market Funds, *Dynamic Money Market Funds*, and all Scotia Mutual Funds are excluded and *will not be charged the Scotia iTRADE early redemption fee.*
> 
> I don't believe you or any investors should be charged for early redemption of any of: DYN1300 (CAD), DYN1350 (USD), DYN500 (CAD), DYN400 (USD)
> 
> Here is the Investment Savings Accounts (ISAs) summary. There is no early redemption fee mentioned.


Thanks Avrex. I also note that the fee is not set out in the ISA Terms and Conditions document (sent to me by iTrade with my trade confirmation) either. 

The rep did read the note you quoted verbatim, but then went on to say that DYN1300 was not a money market fund.

Notwithstanding that the name of the product is "The Bank of Nova Scotia Investment Savings Account" the rep also said that is not considered a Scotia Mutual Fund.

It is certainly an interesting position. If he is correct, then he is basically saying that there is a min hold period on the Dundee Bank and Bank of Nova Scotia ISAs at iTrade which certainly does not appear to be consistent with the experience of other CMF posters.



AltaRed said:


> I buy and sell portions of my DYN500 every month in my Scotia iTrade non-registered account and have never incurred a fee. Think someone in iTrade's back office screwed that up.


Thanks AltaRed. I certainly hope someone in the back office screwed up when setting up DYN1300 in their system and this will be corrected. I seem to recall reading on CMF (or maybe it was another forum) that when iTrade initially offered these products that DYN500 was available, but there were problems with DYN1300. Eventually a Nabil from iTrade responded to that poster that DYN1300 was now added to the system. 

Maybe I should have put my funds in DYN500 instead. It would be ironic that the Dundee Bank ISA has no fees when the one that bears the name "The Bank of Nova Scotia ISA" does. I assume that when you trade DYN500 there is no fee quoted in the trade preview dialogue box.


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## livewell

goose7201 said:


> Thanks AltaRed. I certainly hope someone in the back office screwed up when setting up DYN1300 in their system and this will be corrected. I seem to recall reading on CMF (or maybe it was another forum) that when iTrade initially offered these products that DYN500 was available, but there were problems with DYN1300. Eventually a Nabil from iTrade responded to that poster that DYN1300 was now added to the system.
> 
> Maybe I should have put my funds in DYN500 instead. It would be ironic that the Dundee Bank ISA has no fees when the one that bears the name "The Bank of Nova Scotia ISA" does. I assume that when you trade DYN500 there is no fee quoted in the trade preview dialogue box.


I ran into this last week. I have a chunk of cash in my Scotia i-Trade account that I put into DYN1300 and am gradually deploying as I see opportunities. I bought it in September, and made the first redemption in October ($10k) all fine no commission. Last week I tried to make another sale of $10k and they wanted $100 (1%) commission. I called in - they told me it was wrong and put in a manual trade, and reversed the commission the next day. The person I spoke to said that it was an IT issue that DYN1300 had been incorrectly classified, and a ticket was submitted to correct this. I just checked this morning and the online trading is still incorrectly trying to charge 1% commission on redemptions.


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## goose7201

goose7201 said:


> Transaction was in a non-registered cash account.
> 
> I've sent an email to iTrade requesting confirmation as the info given contradicted the written info previously provided by them. I'll update once I've received a reply.



I've now received a reply from iTrade confirming that there are no commissions / early redemption fee on DYN1300. It appears to be a system error. As somebody else mentioned here, it would appear that some of their front line telephone reps are not very aware of these products. Thanks to everyone for their replies.

_"Thank you for contacting Scotia iTRADE.

DYN1300 is not charged the Early Redemption Fee but we are currently experience an issue when you place a sell order online you are charged the fee. We expect this to be fixed in the very near future. We kindly ask that if you do a sell online and it is showing you will be charged a commission to contact us via phone and we will place the trade for you.

For further inquiries, please contact our Customer Service & Trading Centre at 1-888-872-3388 and one of our representatives will be pleased to assist you. We are open weekdays 8:00a.m - 9:00p.m ET and Weekends 8:00a.m - 6:00p.m ET."_


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## avrex

... and just to confirm, here is a logon message that I received on Scotia iTrade today.


Message:Important Update About Enhancements to Your Trading Experience 

Effective December 7, 2013, you will notice some changes that will provide you with even more information at your fingertips. The following changes are being made:

Removal of Early Redemption Fee on Dynamic Mutual Funds
Great news! You will no longer be charged a Scotia iTRADE early redemption fee of 1% (minimum of $38.88) on the redemption or switch of all Dynamic Mutual Funds held in your Scotia iTRADE account for less than 90 days.

All is well now.


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## james4beach

Thanks for all this info. I was watching this thread and had hesitated to put money into my iTrade ISA.

Does all still appear to be well currently, no fees?

For iTrade, are DYN500 (Hollis) and DYN1300 (Scotia) currently the "correct" ISAs to use?


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## avrex

james4beach said:


> Does all still appear to be well currently, no fees?


There should be no early redemption fees for any of: DYN1300 (CAD), DYN1350 (USD), DYN500 (CAD), DYN400 (USD).
 Investment Savings Accounts (ISAs) summary.



james4beach said:


> Does all still appear to be well currently, no fees?
> For iTrade, are DYN500 (Hollis) and DYN1300 (Scotia) currently the "correct" ISAs to use?


Yes, those are the correct ones, if you want to hold Cdn dollars. 
I currently hold DYN1300 (CAD) and DYN500 (CAD). 

*Both of those are CDIC insured and pay 1.25%.*

I can confirm that there was no early redemption fee when I did an early withdraw for DYN1300 (CAD).


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## james4beach

Thanks! I've put in an order for DYN1300

One thing they may want to fix on their interface is the interest rate shown in the quote preview. On TDDI for instance it shows the yield on the ISA but with iTrade it shows 0%


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## plasmasnake

Does anybody understand the difference between DYN1300 and DYN1350? (and likewise DYN500 vs DYN550)


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## RBull

Think they're the CDN and US$ versions of HISA. 

A quick search came up with this. See thread#36


http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/13168-Where-should-I-park-cash-within-TFSA-RRSP/page4


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## avrex

(The weblinks that we had posted upthread seemed to have moved on the Scotiabank website and are now obsolete. Here is the current link.)

Scotiabank Investment Savings Accounts (ISAs)

The four combinations that you mention are USD vs CDN offered by each of the two providers (Hollis and Bank of Nova Scotia).


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## plasmasnake

Thanks guys. So it turns out that Series F (DYN550 & DYN1301), which has no trailer fee, is only available through financial advisors, according to Canadian Capitalist: http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/high-interest-savings-accounts-at-discount-brokers/

And it looks like Series E (DYN589 & DYN1325) has a smaller trailer fee (0.10% vs 0.25%) when compared to Series A (DYN500 & DYN1300).

Other than the $100,000 minimum and the smaller trailer fee, is there any difference between Series A and E?


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## the-royal-mail

Just re-starting this thread as I may need to park cash from stocks I sold in my RBC DI TFSA shortly. It looks like from what I've read in this thread that RBF2010 is the fund I would need.

1. Is the money as flexible as cash is? What I mean by this is if I buy $10,000 worth of RBF2010, can I easily access $458 of it at any time either to withdraw from the account or use to buy stock?

2. The fact sheet terms and conditions found at this link indicate a possible 0.25% fee. Where is this seen when transacting?
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/products/isa/

3. would I have to pay the usual $9.95 fee for trades to buy and sell RBF2010?


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## Guban

I thought that RBF2010 was structured like a mutual fund, so

1. It may take a day to get at your cash.
2. The 0.25% is structured like a MER. I note that the series F s and the series A have this differential.
3. There is no cost to trading that you should have to pay to buy and sell.

Anybody else confirm?


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## AltaRed

Guban said:


> I thought that RBF2010 was structured like a mutual fund, so
> 
> 1. It may take a day to get at your cash.
> 2. The 0.25% is structured like a MER. I note that the series F s and the series A have this differential.
> 3. There is no cost to trading that you should have to pay to buy and sell.
> 
> Anybody else confirm?


RBF2010 is a HISA bought and sold like a money market mutual fund. It settles T+1 just like a money market fund. Have to get a sell order in before 2pm EST and it will settle by the end of the next business day. So yes, one business day.

Only the A series is available to retail investors and there is a trailer fee of 0.25%. F series sold through financial advisors has no trailer fee.

There is no cost to buy or sell this HISA (mutual fund). I do it all the time in my RRSP and my mother's non-reg and TFSA accounts.


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## RBull

^ 100% as above with my experience too. The f series with the trailer actually has a different identifier- RBF2011. Retail investors get kicked out when they try and buy it. The first time I found it and saw the higher 1.5% not knowing about the .25 trailer to consultants. I put in an order to buy and later received a call to explain and reject the order.


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## arc

Anyone on CIBC IE? Which savings account are you using?


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## gibor365

arc said:


> Anyone on CIBC IE? Which savings account are you using?


I'm  now using ATL5000 ... was thinking maybe to use HFR.... but not sure how it would react if interest rates going up


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