# Making of a Murderer



## sags (May 15, 2010)

*Spoiler Alert........I thought I should put this here as some information is bound to leak out if the topic is discussed at all. People should see the complete documentary first.
*
I binge watched the 10 hour documentary series on Netflix and was thoroughly engrossed in it. You can binge watch the whole series.

The story is absolutely exploding in US media. I won't post any spoilers about it, but it is highly recommended viewing.

My wife just started watching it on my recommendation, so I guess I will see her again in a couple of days.............


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Just halfway through it now!

The sickest part so far to me is the way they used that poor borderline retarded kid to get a confession, and how that piece of **** judge actually allowed his confession to stand when it was so so clearly coerced and manipulated by the cops. Listening to the phone calls between him and his mother while he's sitting in jail is truly heartbreaking.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

I watched it too, and based on what was presented in the documentary, I was more inclined to believe Steven Avery's side of the story. I felt very sorry for Brendan Dassey - being mentally deficient to understand the consequences of what he confessed, or as the documentary inferred, was coerced into confessing. 

Then, after a little Internet searching, I found a lot of stories telling of interviews, testimony, and evidence that was never included in the documentary. This is just one, but is pretty thorough...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/making-a-murderer-nancy-grace-856328


Now, I have no opinion of who was right or wrong. I think this is yet another case of creative editing to sensationalize a story; Nancy Grace is not beyond that either. For it's drama value, if not historical accuracy, I still think it was worth the time to watch it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Having watched it already, I am finding it somewhat interesting to "peek in" at the segments my wife is watching.

With the hindsight, I focus more on exactly what people are saying and in what context...........and it is interesting.

She just watched the segment where the Calumet sheriff is holding a press conference after an 8 day search of Avery's property. He states categorically that the other county police force was not involved in any way except providing heavy equipment when needed.

All I need to say to those who have seen it...........that was when they found "the key"...??

Don't want to say more and spoil it for people.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There is a huge amount of discussion on this documentary on the internet now. It was originally broadcast starting on December 18th, 2015 and the poo is hitting the fan.

(people should watch the documentary first.......before reading the discussions on the internet)

Some of the internet forums are really digging into it, and finding stuff about everyone involved. They are ferreting out some interesting information.

As Userkare suggests there is more evidence "this" way...........but there is also more evidence "that" way coming out.

As the old saying goes........."it's complicated".

A lot of that is debatable and there could be reasons either way, if it was important information or was accurate...........but what is really interesting is that jurors are now stepping forward with blockbuster accusations.

This story is a long ways from finished.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

On an overall level, I think the discussion on this story and others before it, is that the internet is making a big impact as people are crowd sourcing information much more easily now.

A top notch defense lawyer, a former judge, a police officer, a forensic pathologist and anyone else can contribute anonymously and freely, and the technical information provided is getting much better.

I think that on balance it is probably a good thing, although there can be negative consequences as well when people rush to judgement.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Userkare said:


> I watched it too, and based on what was presented in the documentary, I was more inclined to believe Steven Avery's side of the story. I felt very sorry for Brendan Dassey - being mentally deficient to understand the consequences of what he confessed, or as the documentary inferred, was coerced into confessing.
> 
> Then, after a little Internet searching, I found a lot of stories telling of interviews, testimony, and evidence that was never included in the documentary. This is just one, but is pretty thorough...
> 
> ...


I am pretty much like you.....used to think I knew and now not so sure of anything. A lot of people in this really act kind of sketchy.

Interesting that several members of the jury in this case left at various stages during the trial. Wisconsin has an odd way of dealing with it, I think.

They include alternate jurors........they think 16 people total, and pull names out of a hat to decide which 12 enter jury deliberations.

The first jurors poll has become public as well..........and it evokes a hmmm.

It isn't surprising that this documentary is such a hit with audiences, and from what I have read there will be more of them now.

Somebody is doing a movie on the OJ Simpson trial, although it will involve actors which I think is inferior to this real life presented in real time sequence documentary format.

The two women who worked on this for 10 years with no funding deserve all the accolades they receive for their efforts, in my opinion.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

I'm looking at it as a two by two dimensioned table.

He did it...............................He didn't do it.
The cops planted evidence.......The cops didn't plant evidence.

Looking at the 4 possible combinations, one possibility is that he did do it AND the cops planted evidence. Being as they were made to look so bad after his wrongful conviction 18+ years earlier, maybe someone got a bit zealous to ensure an iron-clad conviction this time around. I'm not saying that is what I believe happened, but it's one possibility.

Edit: Oh, and the possibility that he didn't do it and the cops didn't plant evidence can be eliminated as physically impossible. Of the 3 remaining possibilities, one side wants you to believe [he didn't, cops did], and the other wants you to believe [he did, cops didn't]. Nobody else has even brought up the [he did, cops did] scenario. All cleared up now? :biggrin:


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

my sister watched the whole thing in a day and half and said it raised many questions about his guilt and made the cops look bad
i passed on it since i don't like to watch police malfeasance which can destroy entire lives

yet what i read in the media is painting another side of the story

maybe it was both ... that he was a bad guy and the cops were bent


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There was a lot of insightful comment from Avery's lawyers, I thought.

One comment that struck me was...........I can guarantee I will never commit a crime, but I can't guarantee that I will never be accused of committing a crime.

The so called justice system just grinds up ordinary folks and spits them out.

I think a lot of people are hoping this trial was a Wisconsin problem, but it doesn't sound like it by listening to the lawyers.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

What's it tell you when someone can avoid hard prison time after driving drunk on a restricted license, speeding, crashing into a stopped vehicle - killing 4 and injuring 9 people.... because "he was too rich and spoiled by his parents to know right from wrong". The 'affluenza' defence used by Ethan Couch's lawyers.

Meanwhile at one time in NYC, the police would keep their arrest statistics up by grabbing the first black man they came across, and convince him to confess to a crime he didn't commit for a lighter sentence.

One Nation, under God, with With Liberty and Justice for All ( who can afford it ). I hope that Canada is better than that, but I fear not by too much.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

For sure, we also don't see Crown Attorney's holding press conferences giving all the unproven gruesome details of the charges before the jury is even picked.

The laughing, smiling, smirking in the press conferences was over the top, and even the victim's half brother seemed to enjoy being "in on the joke".

I think our system is better, but still a long ways from perfect.

Even in Canada, the cost of defending yourself against serious allegations are higher than most people can pay. Too often a person pleads guilty to a lesser offense just to avoid the cost.


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm part way through the series now. If you liked this one, you may also enjoy the hugely popular Serial podcast series covering another case. Great for a long drive. https://serialpodcast.org/season-one


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wow.........this is weird.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-ax-five-days-victim-series-went-missing.html


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Yes the cops were idiots both times but he is guilty as hell (imo).

And so is his inbred nephew. 

The only thing I found strange was the total lack of her dna in his trailer.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

This is a witness statement by Brendan Dassey's 14 year old cousin Kayla Avery. 

This is what the police and lawyers had to deal with, so it may explain why the police felt the need to keep prompting witnesses for answers.

View attachment 7970


From what I have read, the father of a local sheriff may have been on the jury. Hard to say though with so much stuff flying around.

My question would be...............was the judge willfully blind of all that was going on, or did he just not care a whole lot about proper procedures and conduct.

With so much pressure building, and a Federal appeal in place with top notch appellate legal teams in place, I would be surprised if there isn't another trial of both ordered.

Even the Governor may lose his re-election bid if there isn't.

They said the OJ trial was the trial of the century.........but a new set of trials in this case would be like nothing we have ever seen before.

According to Netflix, the documentary has surpassed anything they have ever shown before, including Breaking Bad and House of Cards.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I've watched half of the episodes last weekend and have 2 left. This only reaffirms my lack of faith in a system that profits from its own inefficiencies and flaws (google judicial industrial complex)

Before I never understood why people would pay lawyers so much if they are innocent, but after seeing the difference of Brendan's "lawyer" and Steven's I can see you need to spend every last cent you have...

Apparently Steven got a new lawyer a few weeks ago and she is taking advantage of the fame by posting on twitter. The judicial system is archaic and needs a major overhaul


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