# Toyota could be moving some production to Mexico



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Although these are still rumours...if enough rumours circulate around, they usually come true.
Toyota is eyeing Mexico to shift it's Corolla production from Cambridge.



> Auto industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers says he’s not aware of Toyota’s plans one way or the other, but “would not be surprised” if they were reconsidering their commitment to Canada.
> *“Canada has serious competitiveness issues on a variety of fronts,” he said.*
> “Unless we get down to address the dozens if not hundreds of competitiveness issues, than the Toyotas and GMs of the world … will have no choice but to go to jurisdictions where they are competitive.”


Especially in Ontario.


> Last month, Ford decided to locate an engine manufacturing plant in Mexico.





> Additionally, Chrysler and General Motors each have two plants in Ontario that DesRosiers says could meet the same fate within the next decade.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gm-delays-closure-of-oshawa-plant-to-2016-1.2101248

So, with the manufacturing economy still shrinking, what can Ontarioans expect by the end of this decade..... one guess....more taxes on everything!


http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/potenti...co-could-affect-cambridge-operation-1.2133395


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

http://news.google.ca/news/url?sa=T...24CYAg&usg=AFQjCNHiX1rNUU2hGKfswTDTnI_GW-TCaw

Not a good thing as I live in cambridge and work for a large company that supplies logistics

So sad


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I think TFI down on news


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

1980z28 said:


> Not a good thing as I live in cambridge and work for a large company that supplies logistics
> 
> So sad


Looks like they may retool for Lexus production, but that line is an expensive upscale line...a new one is somewheres between 32K and 63K, and from the online pricing that is US..add another 20% for the Canadian stealerships.


> Lexus was introduced in 1989 as a luxury brand targeted at Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Jaguar.


 Those cars are only driven by a few that have that kind of income to afford them, compared to the ordinary folks that drive Corollas. I would venture that for every 4 Corollas that roll off the Cambridge assembly line, only about 1 Lexus on the converted line. Not sure if that means a reduction in the workforce, with their automated lines, maybe not as much.

Obviously the car manufacturers see Ontario as becoming too expensive to produce cars and looking for cheaper ways to make them. The labour force in Mexico
probably doesn't belong to the UAW..so there is savings for Toyota there as well.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

They are. And apparently Mexico got that $ 2.5B Ford engine plant that Canada was trying to capture.

Canada is now at the lowest percentage of NA auto production in it's history.

We should be thankful for the past...and for the Autopact agreement that Pearson and team negotiated with the US. We won big time and reaped the benefits. 
Time to move on to something else.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

The migration of the auto industry is just starting...


> Production at the Mexican and Chinese plants is to start in 2019, with annual output estimated at 200,000 vehicles. That will consolidate Corolla production for North America in that plant and Toyota's plant in Blue Springs, Miss.





> Separately, Toyota is adding a third assembly line next to its plant in Guangzhou, China, investing 52.5 billion yen ($440 million). The line is to be completed by 2017, for a model it declined to disclose


Once the Chinese start building Toyota....we can kiss the auto industry goodbye in few years here in NA.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mexican auto workers earn $2.90 an hour, yet that is enough to propel them into the "middle class" in Mexico.

It is the end result of free trade. Mexico wins and Canada loses.

_You can export duty-free from Mexico to big automotive markets in the world – *except China of course *– North America, South America, European Union, Japan,” notes Thomas Karig, vice-president of corporate relations for Volkswagen de Mexico. “There’s no other country in the world that has these kinds of advantages.”
_

*except China of course*...............of course except China. They don't allow imported vehicles. They aren't stupid like we are.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ican-business/mexico-feature/article22987307/


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Mexican auto workers earn $2.90 an hour, yet that is enough to propel them into the "middle class" in Mexico.
> 
> It is the end result of free trade. Mexico wins and Canada loses.
> 
> ...


Perhaps not imports of vehicles...but there is nothing to stop the Chinese from exporting vehicles produced there to the rest of the world. 
Ok the way I see it into the future.. the first Toyota plant may be a trial balloon to see if Toyota and the Chinese get along and produce cars for their own market.

However, if that becomes successful, there may be more investment to expand the production for export. 
Even if Mexican labour is much lower than Canada's,the Chinese labour is lower still lower still.
... and there is many who will work for minimum wages there with no benefits. The parts suppliers can also be located in China.

Is the auto industry going to survive over the next decade in Canada? Perhaps the unions have dealt the auto industry here a serious death blow?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> sags said:
> 
> 
> > Mexican auto workers earn $2.90 an hour, yet that is enough to propel them into the "middle class" in Mexico...
> ...


I doubt it ... even if the unions were to agree to provincial minimums (all over $10 an hour), Mexican autoworkers would still have a major advantage.


Cheers


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Toyota is non unionized, so they have nobody to negotiate severance pay, buyouts and early pensions for them.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe Dennis DesRosiers should go to Mexico and become a automotive industry analyst there. I am sure it pays real well.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I love mexican food!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)




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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Free trade with the EU.................will create 80,000 new jobs.

http://www.conservative.ca/stand-up-for-free-trade/

Free trade with Korea.................will create thousands of new jobs.

http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...ciaux/agr-acc/korea-coree/index.aspx?lang=eng

And now they are pursuing a free trade deal with India..............which will create thousands of new jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...s-free-trade-pact-with-india/article23906875/

Sure they will.............just like all the other free trade deals have.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Free trade with the EU.................will create 80,000 new jobs.
> 
> Sure they will.............just like all the other free trade deals have.


What about free trade with the US/Mexico (NAFTA)..is it working for us..did it create thousands of new jobs here? 1994?.....now 2015-2016? 



> Integration
> North America is home to approximately 459 million people, representing about one quarter of the world’s economy. Our integration helps maximize our capabilities, making our economies more innovative and competitive, creating a North America where Canadian, American and Mexican companies do more than sell things to each other – now, our companies increasingly make things together.
> 
> Competitiveness
> NAFTA has benefited North American businesses through increased export opportunities resulting from lower tariffs, predictable rules, and reductions in technical barriers to trade. *Along with increasing exports and imports, firms have become more specialized and thus more competitive, allowing for them to make things together for customers within and beyond the NAFTA region./*



Are vehicles produced here, sold at the same price in the US as in Canada?

and conversely vehicles built in Detroit and elsewhere, sold here at the US prices?


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

It's not an overall loss to Canada, it means cheaper cars in the future. That's an aspect of free trade, small benefits for many in cheaper goods, hardship for a few people who lose jobs.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Exports of Canadian services are booming. If Toyota can build better, cheaper cars in Mexico to sell to us, that is also good. People seem to forget that exports are the cost of imports. Exports are not an end in and of themselves. It's like saying working in an auto plant is an end in itself. People work in auto plants to earn an income to buy the things they need. Ontario has many other tricks up its sleeve other than manufacturing cars.

This is not to say that Ontario shouldn't be doing what it can to improve competitiveness. But crying about free trade is not one of those things.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Exports of Canadian services are booming. If Toyota can build better, cheaper cars in Mexico to sell to us, that is also good.
> 
> This is not to say that Ontario shouldn't be doing what it can to improve competitiveness. But *crying about free trade is not one of those things*.


Ontario is giving up...not gaining..manufacturing jobs these days. 


> Employment peaked in Canada in 2000 at 153,000 workers.
> By 2009, it had fallen to 98,000.
> Since then, even with the robust recovery in sales, the auto industry has added just 4,000 jobs.


The shrinkage of automotive based jobs is still occurring today even with the low Canadian dollar, so there has to be more to it than just that.
Sure, Toyota will be able to build cheaper cars in Mexico...but will that reflect on those cars being sold cheaper here than they are now? 



> The decline of Canada’s auto industry began in earnest back in 2001 when the Canada-U.S. Auto Pact was abolished.
> The Auto Pact, signed in 1965, guaranteed that participating manufacturers would meet certain Canadian content and value-added targets.
> The World Trade Organization dismantled it in response to a complaint by Japanese manufacturers, but its decline really began with the advent of NAFTA and the emergence of the Mexican market — something that unions still grieve.





> Canada’s auto trade has gone from a surplus of $15-billion in 1999 to a deficit of $18-billion in 2013 — half of which came from trade with Mexico — and Unifor has warned that this deficit will widen significantly if these trade deals are signed.


http://business.financialpost.com/n...s-promises-end-canada-may-have-to-say-goodbye


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> So, with the manufacturing economy still shrinking, *what can Ontarioans expect by the end of this decade*..... one guess....more taxes on everything!


 ... no, more government employees! :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... no, more government employees! :biggrin:


Without the risk of sounding facetious (flippant)I would say more gov't waste and paying more for everything. 
But looking at the bright side....instead of Ontarioans driving cheap Mexican Toyota Corollas...we could be driving LEXUS 350 suvs....and just add
to the personal debt loads we already have.....after all, with GTA house prices STILL GOING UP, and no end in sight....it just wouldn't be good for
appearances..to have a Corolla parked next to those 1 Million dollar houses....

"if I had a million dollars...if I had a million dollars....I would buy you a Lexus...a nice "affordable" automobile (Built in Cambridge)...
but not that green dress"..that's cruel! :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Without the risk of sounding facetious (flippant)I would say more gov't waste and paying more for everything.


.... you're just stating the obvious .... eHealth, gas plant, Orange, etc., ... nothing new and more to come. 



> But looking at the bright side....instead of Ontarioans driving cheap Mexican Toyota Corollas...we could be driving LEXUS 350 suvs....and just add
> to the personal debt loads we already have.....after all, with GTA house prices STILL GOING UP, and no end in sight....it just wouldn't be good for
> appearances..to have a Corolla parked next to those 1 Million dollar houses....


... can't speak for other cities, only Toronto here, we are considered a world-class city afterall. :wink: And meanwhile falling glass condos flourish, an expressway (Gardiner) falling apart, and a war on raccoons by our newly-elected mayor. :biggrin:



> "if I had a million dollars...if I had a million dollars....I would buy you a Lexus...a nice "affordable" automobile (Built in Cambridge)...
> but not that green dress"..that's cruel! :biggrin:


 .... skip the car, the dress, the golf clubs, I take the $$$ instead, need to pay for increasing property taxes ... MPAC is happy.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I loved my Corolla, and my Celicas, and my Camry.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Toyota is changing the name of the vehicle to Toyota Corona :cool2:

Years into the future, Canadians and Americans may be trying to cross the border "into" Mexico looking for work.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> .... you're just stating the obvious .... eHealth, gas plant, Orange, etc., ... nothing new and more to come.
> 
> ... can't speak for other cities, only Toronto here, we are considered a world-class city afterall. :wink: And meanwhile falling glass condos flourish, an expressway (Gardiner) falling apart, and a war on raccoons by our newly-elected mayor. :biggrin:


Ya, I heard about dem raccoons..they want to take their city back..but keep the garbage of course. I saw a new "raccoon proof" green bin that the city has unveiled,
but it remains to be seen how long before they defeat that one as well..they are very smart.. and appear to be smarter than Duffy. :biggrin: 



> I take the $$$ instead, need to pay for increasing property taxes ... MPAC is happy.


Tell me about it...as they say, the only sure things in life are....death and taxes...or is it taxes and death?

Just heard that Ontario is selling off 60% of Hydro One to help pay for Toronto's decaying infrastructure....watch those hydro meters spin faster, once
Hydro One gets privatized..but at least the private entrepreneurs will get rid of the remaining "deadwood" working at Hydro One...they can't even calculate
an accurate electrical bill!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-as-billing-complaints-mount/article16681447/



> Ontario's Liberal government will try to raise money for transit and infrastructure by selling off a large chunk of Hydro One and opening up the way beer is sold in the province. The government will also bring in a new beer tax. Ontario budget coming April 23


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ro-one-allow-beer-in-grocery-stores-1.3035347


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