# Salary increase to move from Montreal to Toronto



## MyWallet (Sep 24, 2014)

Hello,

My employer has opened a new position in Toronto for me and asked me to move from Montreal to Toronto. Basically if I don't claim anything, I'll keep my Montreal salary rate when I'll be settled in Toronto. So I have to ask for a salary raise for the higher living cost in Toronto.

My current salary is 75k before taxes. So I googled a bit on living cost and found this numbeo benchmark quite useful however I don't know how accurate.

The bigger expense is the rent rates which are apprently 70% higher in Toronto. My rent price in Montreal is about 1000/Mo so I'll have to spend 700$ more per month on that. That represents about 16% of the salary increase:
700/Mo x 12Mo / 54 108(salary after tax) = 16%
Now I struggle a bit for the other expenses than rent. The comparisnon says the average salary after tax is 20% more in Toronto, so would be asking for 20% reasonable? What would be your opinion on that.

Thanks

PS: The moving costs from Montreal to Toronto are paid by the company.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm not sure 70% is the figure you want to use. Toronto is very big, and while you can find apartments for $1700 a month, you might have to commute a very long time to your job.

Taxes will be lower than Montreal - but everything is coloured by the hideous commutes. It is mostly a lifestyle question. Montreal certainly has a more vibrant night life and better restaurants than the COTU. Having lived in both cities, I would never live in Toronto again.

When you start to price specific apartments, make sure you choose one near the subway.


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## MyWallet (Sep 24, 2014)

Thank you for the answer. I'm not really bothered by the Toronto night life since I have rather home-loving habits. Commuting time would be more an issue.
I do not have much choice and I think I'll have to move there. Therefore I need to think about my condition and tell my employer how much %% I need to move there.


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## MyWallet (Sep 24, 2014)

*Réponse*



wendi1 said:


> I'm not sure 70% is the figure you want to use. Toronto is very big, and while you can find apartments for $1700 a month, you might have to commute a very long time to your job.
> 
> Taxes will be lower than Montreal - but everything is coloured by the hideous commutes. It is mostly a lifestyle question. Montreal certainly has a more vibrant night life and better restaurants than the COTU. Having lived in both cities, I would never live in Toronto again.
> 
> When you start to price specific apartments, make sure you choose one near the subway.


Thank you Wendi for your answer! I'm not too worried about the Toronto nightlife since I'm more home-loving. But the work commutes are more a concern.
I think I don't have much a choice than to move to Toronto. So i have somehow to come up with a %% number that I'll be confortable with.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I've visited 23 countries and 100+ cities now. Numbeo is quite accurate


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Many retailer prices are the same as they are national chain stores. So I am pretty sure you will find the same cost for Canadian Tire, Tim Hortons, Shoppers Pharmaprix, etc.

However, discretionary items are more expensive in Toronto... It is not uncommon for a couple to spend $60 in a Chinese restaurant in Toronto whereas the same meal in a similar restaurant would just cost $30 in Montreal.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

MoreMiles said:


> Many retailer prices are the same as they are national chain stores. So I am pretty sure you will find the same cost for Canadian Tire, Tim Hortons, Shoppers Pharmaprix, etc..


But aren't the sales taxes higher in Québec?

Also, I remember MoneyGal bragging about how she could get a nice supper for $5 or so person in her Toronto neighbourhood; it's a matter of knowing where to look.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Do you actually prefer Toronto to Montreal?

How old are you? Is this going to be a life altering transfer or do you not have any family/friends/life in Montreal anyways?

Montreal is leagues ahead of Toronto in terms of quality of life, food, culture, landscape, cost, etc, IMHO.

I think you'd be crazy to move to TO without a MAJOR increase in compensation or guaranteed promotions, and it sounds like you'll have to beg just for a measly cost of living raise, which you don't even know if they will give you...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I think what is more important is how this move will affect your long term career and your personal life. Moving is usually good for your career for many reasons but can also really hurt your personal life. Focusing on the money is shortsighted imo (maybe TO costs more today but it could mean future promotions, maybe you would be miserable in a new city away from friends/family etc)

Chains actually have some differences in prices, products, and even packaging across Canada (I've lived in almost every province) This is probably because of varied salaries, provincial legislation, local market etc. Utilities and car insurance also seem to be much cheaper in Quebec, but it's all replaced with the income taxes..

Really if you are in the $75k range and you only care about maximizing your take home, do not look province to province but rather nearby smaller cities where the cost of living is likely astronomically lower yet the 5 figure salaries are about the same. I don't want to let too much of that little Canadian secret out of the box though.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Don't forget, when you live in Quebec you are COLLECTING a large "transfer payment" from Ottawa every year and when you live in Ontario you are PAYING it. This is not trivial, it amounts to more than $5000 per person in Quebec.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Well, most of the federal transfer payment goes to prescription medicare for seniors, and the $7 day care. If you are not collecting these benefits, you are unlikely to notice a difference. You WILL notice the extra provincial income tax in Quebec.


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

I'd add to what peterk and wendi1 mentioned in the consideration for your lifestyle and future lifestyle. Studies show that as your commute time grows there's a proportional decrease in your health and happiness. Also a 1hr commute turns a 40 hour work week into a 50 hour work week, and those extra hours spent staring at bumpers are hours you can't spend doing what you want. 

Making less money and walking to work is a reward some people don't consider. Having only visited the two places mentioned if I could make 75k in either city I'd stay in Montreal without blinking an eye. Real estate is reasonable, bixi is awesome, the food is great, and most importantly you don't have to listen to Leafs and Jays fans ad nauseum.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

banjopete said:


> I
> Making less money and walking to work is a reward some people don't consider. Having only visited the two places mentioned if I could make 75k in either city I'd stay in Montreal without blinking an eye. Real estate is reasonable, bixi is awesome, the food is great, and most importantly you don't have to listen to Leafs and Jays fans ad nauseum.


I'm not sure how much longer Bixi will be around, but it has been great. Leafs and Jays fans are replaced by Habs fans and fervent nationalists rooting for soccer teams in the World Cup. I never have to listen to the radio to know when the Habs have scored a goal; the yelling out of windows and beeping of car horns mark every one.


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## maxandrelax (Jul 11, 2012)

Stay in Montreal unless you can get a massive raise. It is one of the best places on earth. I have lived in Toronto my whole life and have experienced the massive commute times (within the city!?!?) and out of control rents. I am stuck here because of the nature of my job and family. We make do, but would love to live in Montreal. We visit it yearly to get away. Go Habs!


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

I am French Canadian and have lots of family around Montreal, so you would have to pay a lot of money to move out of Montreal area to Toronto.

However, if I had no family here and I was not French speaking... tough to know.

I did not fall in love in Toronto when I go there for business about 1 time a year, but I don't consider it fair game to compare for such short period of time.


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

About 7-8 years ago, I refused a job offer of 20% increased pay + company car and gas card.

The increase was enough to cover the difference in cost of living between Montreal and Toronto, however it wasnt an increase in disposable income in my opinion.
If I'm going to upend my life, move to a soulless city where I only have a few friends and leave my family behind, it better be well damn worth it.
I would not do it for a little bump in salary.

However, as others have mentioned, if its to put you on a path to promotions and what not... its another story. Salary is not the only picture, but its an important factor.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

You might want to look at this from a career perspective. Will this move position you better for future advacement/promotion? Will the new position allow you to acquire additional skills and or experience that will serve you well if you decide to change employers or if you become the victim of a downsizing?

If you do not accept this position will you subsequently become disenchanted with your position? Do you by chance have a mentor at work or know someone senior who you can discuss the pro and cons with- both financial and career wise?

I really think that you need to reflect on your personal wants/desires and on your career opportunities and aspirations. Decide on the right course for you and then deal with the money issues. My guess is that if this is right for you and for your employer the money issue will be solved. If you have some contacts you might want to do some research on current salaries for a similar job/experience level in Toronto.

I made a decision to move from Vancouver to Calgary 13 years ago. It was a hard move...teenagers etc. Almost did not take it. Turned out to be the best thing I ever did. Best job I had, more lucrative than I ever imagined, and it allowed me to retire at 58 eleven years later. And in the end we came to like Calgary and Alberta so much that we have remained there post retirement. I hear you on Toronto though. Montreal is near the top of our list, Toronto near the bottom. As for Leafs fans...there is no accounting for taste. There must be something in that awful Toronto tap water that makes them that way.


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## MyWallet (Sep 24, 2014)

*Thank you for your feedback*

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback. I've actually not much concerned about the nightlife and amusements in Toronto since I'm more home-loving kind of person.
I do not know also if I will have much other choice than to move in Toronto. Because the project I'm working on is drawing to an end here in Montreal end is transferred to Toronto.
I have to come up with a %% figure and show it to my employer. If my employer is unable to meet my request, I'll stay.


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## Nick2013 (Jul 1, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Don't forget, when you live in Quebec you are COLLECTING a large "transfer payment" from Ottawa every year and when you live in Ontario you are PAYING it. This is not trivial, it amounts to more than $5000 per person in Quebec.


Not according to the government website: Federal Support to Provinces and Territories Quebec is indeed receiving Equalization payment (1129$ per capita) but unfortunately so has Ontario for the last 6 years (145$)

Something interesting about the Equalization Program is that is has nothing to do with expenses - social programs... It has to do with the ability to raise revenues.


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## newuser (Sep 16, 2014)

Someone else brought it up already but your take home pay in Toronto is higher than in Montreal due to lower provincial taxes. We live in GTA and my wife used to be employed and paid by a Quebec company. She would have to deduct the Quebec provincial taxes first and get refunded at annual tax return time. Typically, she would get over 10% of her salary returned on the refund. So if she was paid $100K gross, her refund was over $10K -- largely due to the provincial tax difference.

Rents vary building to building even in same neighborhoods. If you don't want to pay for a new building with bowling, gym, pool, etc., you can choose to live in an older place for much cheaper.

Out of pocket expense for childcare and education should be cheaper in Quebec.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

MyWallet said:


> I have to come up with a %% figure and show it to my employer. If my employer is unable to meet my request, I'll stay.


Are you sure it's going to play out that smoothly? This seems dicey to me. You should be asking what the new compensation is going to be, and then accepting happily or refusing with a BS explanation about "your family is here, yada yada".

I wouldn't under any circumstances tell them that you're willing to move if they pay your increased cost of living demands, and want to stay put if they don't.

IMHO


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

peterk, thats exactly what he should do. People who complain of not being paid fairly are usualy those that did not take risk. Asking for fair compensation or a raise for moving to a more expensive city is a small risk, but IT must be donne, or else whats the point?

I asked for raises 3 times in 2.5 years at my latest job. And finally have compensation that I could live with for life. If you don't ask, you won't get anything and being shy will get you no where.


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## MyWallet (Sep 24, 2014)

I've basically replied that moving could be a good opportunity but also that I need a compensation for a higher living cost in Toronto without quoting a figure.
Do you think 20% is a fair raise to keep the same living style? I don't have a car so I'll be looking for a similar appartment close to the metro.
I know also about taxes being lower in Toronto:
QC 75K => 54.1K
ON 75K => 58.4K
So this is almost 8% more in the pocket in Toronto vs. Quebec.
Should I substract this from the 20% salary increase I will be asking? I.e. asking for 20 - 8 = 12% increase?

Thank you.


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