# The Sad End of Investing



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

As a buy-and-hold investor, I have not experienced net growth in my 'Couch Potato' portfolio over the past five years. I am not alone. Many investors, hoping to retire at age 65 have had to put their plans on hold because they have not been able to achieve their planned savings and investment objectives. Not only that, but, with great uncertainty in Europe, things could get a whole lot worse before they get better.

Here is a column by the G&M's Rob Carrick on this subject:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...d-end-of-saving-and-investing/article4257700/

A sad end indeed.

By way of example, the iShares S&P/TSX 60 Index Fund (XIU) comprised of the largest 60 companies on the TSX has total returns as follows:

YTD (as of May 31): -2.55%
1 Year: -14.52%
5 Years: -1.52%

Five lost years!! If your target gain had been 8 per cent, you are 9 1/2% under your target!! No wonder that folks are having a hard time retiring on their targeted schedule or, if already retired, living the lifestyle that they had expected and planned for.

Any thoughts?


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Follow the money, there are many opportunities outside north america


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

That simply shows that index investing alone is not the way to go. Different times call for different strategies but now you should invest in things that pay you to own them.

A balanced portfolio of index funds, dividend paying stocks/ETFs, and fixed income would have done a lot better.

Thoughts?


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Sherlock said:


> That simply shows that index investing alone is not the way to go. Different times call for different strategies but now you should invest in things that pay you to own them.
> 
> A balanced portfolio of index funds, dividend paying stocks/ETFs, and fixed income would have done a lot better.
> 
> Thoughts?


So Unfair, I never get to enjoy a good investing environment.


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## Miser (Apr 24, 2011)

It's a whole new world now.
Changing day to day.
Not the end but the beginning of a whole new concept.
Micro managing is the only way to survive.

Be on the new curve.


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## sharbit (Apr 26, 2012)

Did you buy when the market dropped in 2008? If not, why not?


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

It has been a frustrating time for passive investors. I have my registered accounts mostly passive with index funds while my non-registered are in dividend stocks. While I have a couple of stock disappointments, my stock portfolio has been holding it's own, while the index funds have been frustrating. I'm starting to wonder if it may be an idea to inject a little bit of timing into the passive portfolio - for example, if your model portfolio is a 50/50 equity, fixed-income split, after a couple of good years, like when the TSX recently hit the mid 13 level go to about 60% fixed income. And then gradually reverse that allocation in times like these. In fact, I think Berstein mentioned doing something like this. 

That all being said, one has to realize that there will be 5 year periods like this and you have to look at an entire balanced passive portfolio, not just one index. You may have to more closely examine the makeup of your passive portfolio. For example, if your portfolio mimicked the FPX balanced, the 5 year annualized returns would be 2.25%.


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## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

Five years is too small a sampling to gauge long term returns.

If the index had returned +25% in the preceding three years and roars back with +25% in the next two years, that would be ten years of outstanding long term performance.

Stop watching the excited dog.

If you can't stop watching the excited dog, stop posting about it. We don't care.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I think your a manic depressive. We've said it before, 5 years is just too short a window.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

xiu is a good example to present because the truth is that this etf has returned decently well over 1, 5 or 10 years to investors who do the right things with it.

i've held XIU since 2001. The total return is not as good as my overall portfolio, but for me this etf is a bond-like defensive holding. In its own way XIU is safer than all but government bonds because it'll never go bankrupt.

xiu's dividend yield right now is 3.19. Over the years yield has been higher but seldom lower. It'll never stop paying dividends unless the world ends.

in addition, i sell otm calls. These bring in another 3-4%, favourably taxed as capital gains. In 12 years, there has never been a day when my xiu holding has not been short a bunch of otm calls.

i don't reinvest the dividends, i take em as cash. The average annual current return in cash with the dividend/option combo is roughly 6-8%, not including notional or paper capital gains because my cost base is around $12.

any retiree wants to complain about that, i don't know what's wrong with em.

another advantage to xiu-plus-options=better-than-bonds is that it's a no-brainer. In a nearby thread folks are fretting about the time cost of DIY management. But the total time i spend on xiu in an entire year, including rolling the options forward, is 30 minutes.

anybody can do this. Belguy could do this.


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## Investor72 (Jun 3, 2012)

People who buy the whole market and hold for long term are at the mercy of economic growth. When economy is booming, everything goes up. Otherwise, the performance of the whole market will be mediocre or negative. However, In both economy conditions, the best businesses in the market can earn more consistant profit than the the index as a whole. 

You get what you pay for. In the case of investing, aside from money, what you pay for the investment return is your investment knowledge. If you have no good knowledge about investment, how can you expect good return? Indexing will provide average return. Stock picking provides the chance for superior investment results. It's unreasonable for competent inteligent buy and hold investor who invest in individual companies to out perform the market consistantly by 5%~10% per year in the long term. Averge action produces average result. To get better performance, one needs to avoid herd behavior. See the big hype in Apple products and it's stock? I certainly won't invest in Apple despite its current huge profit margin, market dominance and earning growth. I don't own Apple products either because it seems everyone owns one. 

When do you know your stock picking is working? You know it when the perfortfolio is less volatile than the market but performs better in terms of percentage than the market in most years.
I find it annoying that some people will keep doing stock picking not knowing what their return % is compared to the market. They just look at amount of dollar they have and thinking I am doing great. 

Also keep in mind, the TSX index is 90% financial and resources. It's an example of putting all your eggs in one basket. Sector allocation and diversification is still important.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

My couch potato portfolio is returning 2.45% above inflation.

While that's nothing to write home about. Imagine the alternative, where I would use balanced mutual funds charging 2.5% MER.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Spidey said:


> It has been a frustrating time for passive investors. I have my registered accounts mostly passive with index funds while my non-registered are in dividend stocks. While I have a couple of stock disappointments, my stock portfolio has been holding it's own, while the index funds have been frustrating. I'm starting to wonder if it may be an idea to inject a little bit of timing into the passive portfolio - for example, if your model portfolio is a 50/50 equity, fixed-income split, after a couple of good years, like when the TSX recently hit the mid 13 level go to about 60% fixed income. And then gradually reverse that allocation in times like these. In fact, I think Berstein mentioned doing something like this.
> 
> That all being said, one has to realize that there will be 5 year periods like this and you have to look at an entire balanced passive portfolio, not just one index. You may have to more closely examine the makeup of your passive portfolio. For example, if your portfolio mimicked the FPX balanced, the 5 year annualized returns would be 2.25%.



Good comment.

Rick Ferri published an article today about adding some active management to a passive portfolio. Some good thoughts

http://www.rickferri.com/blog/investments/fantasy-alpha-and-your-portfolio/


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

I'm happy that XIU is underperforming as I have been a buyer lately to the tune of six figures. Pulled a chunk of change out of ING and bought XIU in my wifes non registered account and at under $16.50 I have no doubt it will bounce back up to over $17.50 again and massacre any lame return we were getting from ING. My kids RESP is 100% XIU and as we won't be touching it for about 15 years I am confident its a secure investment that will bring some good returns while I keep buying it as the price fluctuates.

Like any investment if you know you won't need the funds for a long time might as well have your money in something you believe has good potential to appreciate without you losing sleep about risk.

Now I would like to see VTI take a bigger dive as I need to buy a lot of it. I sold some over $72 a few months ago and would love to buy in the low $60's.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

what misguided individual among the 1st hours of this thread's life rated it 5-star ?

has the Beau Gars taken to rating his own posts as 5-star excellent now. Tch.

but it appears we can vote to offset a false rating. I voted "terrible" & lo ! the rating promptly dropped to 3-star.

anybody else votes "terrible" & the stars will get whittled down.

(aside to belguy) there's no such thing as an unfortunate retiree in canada. We probably have one of the highest guaranteed annual incomes for seniors in the world. There's free medical care, some subsidized housing, fantastic free cultural events & festivals in all the major cities (canadians are an arty bunch); plus a huge social work apparatchik built expressly to support them.

retirees can be as happy as they want to be. If they want to be unhappy, that's their problem.

don't you think it's a wee bit disgraceful for a rich canadian retiree to spend his days complaining how faraway geopolitical events are mysteriously conspiring to make him poorer ...


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> what misguided individual among the 1st hours of this thread's life rated it 5-star ?


I'm thinking it was Miser. He seems to be the new BG without the links



Miser said:


> It's a whole new world now.
> Changing day to day.
> Not the end but the beginning of a whole new concept.
> Micro managing is the only way to survive.
> ...


Whatever....


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## Vitalogy80 (Apr 12, 2009)

Don't we have like 3 other threads started by Belguy claiming the end of the world? Can't he just focus all his doom and gloom in a single thread??


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Who cares how many freakin' stars I get. I haven't even noticed them before now!!

The ten year total return of XIU is a stunning +6.60%. Two other planks in the 'Classic Couch Potato' portfolio have ten year total returns as follows: XSP: -0.09%, XIN: -1.11%

How impressive is that? Is that a long enough time line for you? Their inclusion in your geographically diversified portfolio would have served to drag things down a bit.

Maybe we could improve things a bit by throwing in some CWO, Broad Emerging Markets ETF units. It hasn't been around for ten years but it's one year return is an impressive -22.77%. Now, that would have perked up your returns some---NOT!! 

When I first joined this forum, I was a very strong proponent of index or Couch Potato investing but am coming to the conclusion that it may indeed be a superior way to invest---during different market conditions than we are currently experiencing.

I now believe that a diversified portfolio of solid dividend paying stocks from companies who you feel will be around for the long term and who have a history of increasing those dividends over time is the better way to go.

Is there anyone reading this who still feels that investing in a portfolio of indexes is still the best method?

P.S. Keep up the attacks as I have an uncanny ability to turn the other cheek.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

belguy index investing is yesteryear.

please read this thread. You'll see that Ihatetaxes is doing fine with index etfs + market timing.

i do fine with XIU + options.

value is key. Couldn't you use some of the time you spend complaining, learning how to add value to your portfolio selections

(??)


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## Vitalogy80 (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm not attacking you, but it's a little annoying to have to read the countless posts of people trying to help you and you just ignore them and post another end of the world link. If the world is really ending, why not just take everything out of stocks and spend it all in the next 5 years and enjoy yourself.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I guess that "complaining" is in the eye of the beholder. I have not been complaining in this thread but merely outlining some cold, hard facts for index investors given current market conditions.

See no evil! Hear no evil!


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

you should of been all in dividend stocks, for a year i'm probably down 10% but dividends make it almost even


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm 51. Occasionally I think about what I'll do when I retire, and I always seem to envision a working or at least very active retirement - that is - I expect to keep working, not because I'll need to (I hope), but because I want to. (It must be the Presbyterian work ethic passed down from my parents). I also want to travel, and see more cultures and sights - but I'm not waiting - I'm off to Australia in 2 weeks to dive the Barrier Reef - it's one of the things on my "bucket list".

My point: 

Have you considered what your priorities are at the present? Have you established what you want tot do and see with your time? From what I can tell, you are healthy & you have means. Have you cosidered travelling - and travalleing need not cost alot of $. If you want a private room in a hostel for example, the costs are vert reasonable (check out International Hostel Magazine for example). Better yet - you can travel and have many/most of your costs absorbed by some organizations.

Chuck your investments in more secure, low risk modes. Establish a budget - research distant destinations, travel like a Scot (cheap). Life is too short to fret about some things over which we have little control. :tongue-new:


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## scomac (Aug 22, 2009)

And the broken record wheezes on and on...

:rolleyes2:


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

If you want to complain, at least complain about facts, instead of picking and choosing portfolio components and cherry picking time periods. Let's say you have a 60-40 stock-bond split. And you've split the stock portion into 20-18-18-4 between Canadian-US-EAFE-Emerging Markets stocks. Your 10 year return in CAD between 2002 and 2011 rebalanced annually would be 4.6%. 

Index returns would be:
Canadian bonds: 6.5%
TSX Composite: 7.0%
US Total Market: -0.6%
EAFE: 0.52%
Emerging Markets: 9.2%

Yes, the overall portfolio returns turned out to be modest but if you invested in broad-market indexes expecting to always make money, I suggest that your expectations are unrealistic.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

The longer one's time horizon, the less important shorter term market returns are. My point is that most of the main indexes have gone nowhere in the past ten years and this has made a difference in the retirement plans of many. In the U.S., if you add declining real estate prices to the mix and one can see that it has been devastating to many middle age and older folks.

No, I don't expect to "always make money" but seeing one's portfolio decline in value over the past ten years, while, at the same time, approaching 70 years of age is not the same as experiencing the same thing in your 20's, 30's, or 40's. The average net worth of Americans has declined since 2008 back to where it was in 1992!!

How does that grab you?

And the broken record wheezes on and on!!

Oh, and yes, if you included bonds in your index portfolio over the past ten years, it would have helped to buoy your returns but we can't even count on that going forward!!

Also, doesn't picking the period 2002 to 2011 amount to cherry picking a time period?


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Belguy said:


> P.S. Keep up the attacks as I have an uncanny ability to turn the other cheek.


If you don't like what people are posting, then why don't you just put them on ignore?


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## Vitalogy80 (Apr 12, 2009)

Since he loves CNBC so much, here's a good article...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47828924

"10 Reasons to be a bull, from a stock market bear"

And...the top reason for being bullish:

1. "The end of the world only happens once — Monday probably isn't the day." Through recessions and depressions, flashes and crashes, we seem to persevere. "For all the well-publicized challenges facing markets and investors, financial Armageddon is still an unlikely occurrence," Colas writes. "And even if it does happen, what are the chances you really have enough gold coins, freeze-dried food and double-aught buckshot anyway?


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

"Troll! On the forum! Thought you ought to know."


*faints*


View attachment 142


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

If you're 70, you'll probably only live 20 more years. Do you have enough money to last you 20 more years? If so, then sell all your stocks immediately and put it into high interest savings.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Belguy said:


> The longer one's time horizon, the less important shorter term market returns are. My point is that most of the main indexes have gone nowhere in the past ten years and this has made a difference in the retirement plans of many.


That simply isn't true. From 10 years ago.

The Nasdaq is up 100%
The TSX is up 68%.
The Dow Jones is up 36%.


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## Andre112 (Apr 27, 2011)

I don't know why you guys are wasting your time...


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

belguy, why do you make the dumb assumption that the next ten years will produce the same result as the last 10 years ?
you can't predict the future
index investing might be the place to be over the next decade
you aren't accounting for novelty


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I was reading in Money Sense of a cheap way to make your own seg like fund without the high MER. Using $10,000 as an example you buy a ten year strip bond that in 10 years will mature at $10,000 getting your money back. So if you pay $7,500 for the bond to start you are left with $2,500 which can go into XIU or whatever and you now have a low risk investment for those who are frightened by the stock market and can't trade.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

so why didn't you plan ahead when you started to invest? i'm guessing you started at 70 so why didn't you ask yourself why am I doing this since I will need the money very soon? you can only blame youself



Belguy said:


> The longer one's time horizon, the less important shorter term market returns are. My point is that most of the main indexes have gone nowhere in the past ten years and this has made a difference in the retirement plans of many. In the U.S., if you add declining real estate prices to the mix and one can see that it has been devastating to many middle age and older folks.
> 
> No, I don't expect to "always make money" but seeing one's portfolio decline in value over the past ten years, while, at the same time, approaching 70 years of age is not the same as experiencing the same thing in your 20's, 30's, or 40's. The average net worth of Americans has declined since 2008 back to where it was in 1992!!
> 
> ...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Please stop quoting belguy. When he on ignore, I still have to see such quotes. They don't add any value to our discussions. Never have.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

So I guess it's time to short everything for all eternity, because there's no way anything positive ever happens...


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

"U.S. stocks may be OK to own through the euro crisis." ---Cramer

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ed-on-friday/2012/06/15/gJQA8MIdfV_story.html


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

Belguy, go get yourself a couple of cold beers, sit by the lake, then view the world through your beer goggles.....


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Thanks but I don't drink because I need to stay sober while participating in this forum. Also, I don't do lakes.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

kcowan said:


> Please stop quoting belguy. When he on ignore, I still have to see such quotes. They don't add any value to our discussions. Never have.


That is funny. I had wondered if that bugged any of you guys.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Belguy said:


> need to stay sober while participating in this forum.


We do??? Now they tell me...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ... In a nearby thread folks are fretting about the time cost of DIY management. But the total time i spend on xiu in an entire year, including rolling the options forward, is 30 minutes.
> 
> anybody can do this. Belguy could do this.


If it's the thread I think it is - the way I read it, people were indicating that time cost of *any* investing should be considered. 

Since this method has you using 30 minutes a year, that's great. There are other investors I know who spend ten hours a week to end up well behind any index one cares to pick.


Returning to the xiu-plus-options=better-than-bonds that is a no-brainer, that anyone can do - I'm wondering what Belguy thinks of it plus if it will be implemented.


Cheers


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> If it's the thread I think it is - the way I read it, people were indicating that time cost of *any* investing should be considered.
> 
> Since this method has you using 30 minutes a year, that's great. There are other investors I know who spend ten hours a week to end up well behind any index one cares to pick.
> 
> ...


I consider calculating the time cost of investing somewhat irrelevant for me... To me it is comparable to including the time commuting to work, making your meals, shopping for food, breathing and sleeping as they are all necessities to getting to and from your workplace to be productive... Like any other endeavor one should consider the time spent on any task when considering it's total return. Not only from a financial perspective but also from an enjoyment perspective... Just because you could make more by working extra hours in your place of employment doesn't mean it is necessarily always a good idea. If that were the case everyone should work 24 hours a day to maximize returns... What about fatigue? Job stress? etc... some people can do their jobs very well at 50, 60 or more hours a week... typically it is because they enjoy their work...Those that don't probably have enough of it after 40...

Now back to the thread..

No it's not the end of investing... It's about risk tolerance matching your portfolio allocation... I myself don't follow the 100 - age strategy but that is because I consider myself to have a higher risk tolerance...... currently my allocation is conservative in regards to equity to fixed income... This is because i am still learning to DIY... 

cheers


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I think I'm finally convinced. Belguy has been right all this time. It will all end badly, and we will all die.

I think I'm going to burn my money tomorrow, lest I lose it in the markets. This way at least I control what happens to it.


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## Zeeshan Hamid (Feb 28, 2012)

Belguy said:


> As a buy-and-hold investor, I have not experienced net growth in my 'Couch Potato' portfolio over the past five years. I am not alone. Many investors, hoping to retire at age 65 have had to put their plans on hold because they have not been able to achieve their planned savings and investment objectives. Not only that, but, with great uncertainty in Europe, things could get a whole lot worse before they get better.
> 
> Here is a column by the G&M's Rob Carrick on this subject:
> 
> ...


Three things :-
- If all your money is in TSX then you're not doing it right. TSX is highly concentrated in just three industries. 
- Stocks is a risky investment. Risk == potential for loss. If you want guarantee, don't buy stocks
- "Generally" a well diversified couch potato portfolio does very well, especially compared to other approaches.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Zeeshan Hamid said:


> Three things :-
> - If all your money is in TSX then you're not doing it right. TSX is highly concentrated in just three industries.
> - Stocks is a risky investment. Risk == potential for loss. If you want guarantee, don't buy stocks
> - "Generally" a well diversified couch potato portfolio does very well, especially compared to other approaches.


1+ on this post, but of course risk also = greater potential for gains as well.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

This thread should be titled:The sad end of belguy-and the mods get rid of him already-who needs to read his bull.It's cancer.You did'nt make it belguy(financially)Maybe in your next life.

Belguy,have you ever heard the saying:No sense in complianing because NOBODY cares anyways.


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> If you want to complain, at least complain about facts, instead of picking and choosing portfolio components and cherry picking time periods. Let's say you have a 60-40 stock-bond split. And you've split the stock portion into 20-18-18-4 between Canadian-US-EAFE-Emerging Markets stocks. Your 10 year return in CAD between 2002 and 2011 rebalanced annually would be 4.6%.
> 
> Index returns would be:
> Canadian bonds: 6.5%
> ...


CC - Can you recommend 1 or 2 etfs from the the US Total Market (VTI?), EAFE and Emerging Markets categories that you outline above?
I have a few reasonably good dividend stocks, and I hold CDZ and CYH (Monthly Global Income Fund). 
I am painfully missing some of these pieces of a balanced pf and would like to hear your or anyone elses suggestions.
Are CWO and EWC good choices in your view?
thanks


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Zeeshan Hamid said:


> Three things :-
> - If all your money is in TSX then you're not doing it right. TSX is highly concentrated in just three industries.


Yes if you buy XIU you might not be properly diversified but if you invest in TSX stocks it is easy to be properly diversified as well as having exposure to US & global economies.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Alas, poor Mr. Belguy... 

If you are gonna follow rhetoric I suggest you adhere to this piece of advice from Mr. Bernstein in regards to believing all of the noise being bandied about by the media. (my words in blue)

"In my experience, it is the ability to ignore these dysfunctional instinctive responses that determines, as much as anything else, which investors wind up with the highest returns. remember the limbic system has the attention span of a two year old, obsessing on daily changes in the market prices. so during market declines, shut it down! The sooner you turn off CNBC (in your case the globe and mail) get out in the bright sunshine and take a walk, the better you will feel about your investments. 
By all means, enjoy contact with your family and friends, just do not, under any circumstances discuss finance with them during severe market declines. It will only make you crazy. If they raise the subject, change it. If they persist, wave their question aside.....

Finally, there is one more psychological trick you can use to blunt the pain of bear markets, especially if you are a retiree who is drawing down his or her portfolio, and that is to occasionally relax your portfolio discipline a bit and think of your nest egg as two buckets: one filled with stocks and one filled with bonds. When stocks perform poorly, in order to raise living expenses you will be selling bonds, since their allocation will rise. Just do not forget to replenish the bond bucket with the proceeds of stocks sales and to also take your living expenses from the stock bucket as well when times are flush"

If you estimate your life span to be another 15-25 years you have plenty of time to recover (unless all this stress gives you a heart attack in the in the interim). I think you are living with a lot of regret for not having an allocation that matches your risk tolerance. There is no way to have the past undone my friend... But you can have some influence on the future... don't panic. At one point you had a plan in place... look at the plan...see if it matches your needs and risk tolerance... I am not sure if you should do anything for the time being aside from turn off the news, turn off your computer and go outside... putter around the yard.... tend to your garden... You live in a great country... You will not starve...

Mods please do not ban belguy from this forum as some have suggested.... He is one of my leading market indicators... :biggrin:


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Awesome post londoncalling, agree with everything


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

londoncalling said:


> Mods please do not ban belguy from this forum as some have suggested.... He is one of my leading market indicators... :biggrin:


I agree. This is a sentiment that's out there and taking stock of that can be important. The day that I hear nothing but positive sentiment on this site is the day that I convert my entire portfolio to fixed-income.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I am taking the weekend off and am sitting by the lake drinking a cool one. Who cares what next week will bring!!:very_drunk::very_drunk:


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Belguy said:


> I am taking the weekend off and am sitting by the lake drinking a cool one. Who cares what next week will bring!!:very_drunk::very_drunk:


nice..:encouragement:


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Belguy said:


> I am taking the weekend off and am sitting by the lake drinking a cool one. Who cares what next week will bring!!:very_drunk::very_drunk:


Cheers! :applouse::very_drunk:


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## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

Belguy said:


> I am taking the weekend off and am sitting by the lake drinking a cool one. Who cares what next week will bring!!:very_drunk::very_drunk:


EXCELLENT!

For your amusement, I'll add a quote from Bernstein's "The Four Pillars of Investing."



> ...our tendency to focus on short-term losses is one of the most corrosive psychological phenomena experienced by the investor. It is best demonstrated by this apocryphal story: An investor places $10,000 in a mutual fund in the mid-1970s and then forgets about it. Shocked by the October 19, 1987 market crash, she panics and calls the fund company to inquire about the state of her account. “I’m sorry madam, but the value of your fund holdings has fallen to $179,623.”


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

CJOttawa said:


> EXCELLENT!
> 
> For your amusement, I'll add a quote from Bernstein's "The Four Pillars of Investing."


Oh oh. That is the surest bullish indicator we have had for a while...


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

This is why dividends are so important for the long term investor. If you had purchased companies that were paying 5% dividends 5 years ago, you'd have 25% return if the stock prices remained the same, or at the very least, a 25% cushion if markets are down. If you bought companies that have low returns to shareholders, like a majority of XIU, well then you rely on other investors to provide you a return when you sell your stock to them.. a poor long term strategy for most.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

CDZ has done quite well over recent years but past performance is no guarantee of future results.

http://ca.ishares.com/product_info/fund/overview/CDZ.htm

Compared with XIU:

http://ca.ishares.com/product_info/fund/overview/XIU.htm


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

doctrine said:


> This is why dividends are so important for the long term investor. If you had purchased companies that were paying 5% dividends 5 years ago, you'd have 25% return if the stock prices remained the same,


This is exactly why i like dividend champions/contenders with yield around and above 5%. Good examples are T.N and MO.N and because many investors are thinking the same way, appreciation of those is pretty nice


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

doctrine said:


> This is why dividends are so important for the long term investor. If you had purchased companies that were paying 5% dividends 5 years ago, you'd have 25% return if the stock prices remained the same,


This is exactly why i like dividend champions/contenders with yield around and above 5%. Good examples are T.N and MO.N and because many investors are thinking the same way, appreciation of those is pretty nice


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Over the past four out of five weeks, investors have taken more out of U.S. equity markets than they have put in.

What does that say?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Belguy said:


> Over the past four out of five weeks, investors have taken more out of U.S. equity markets than they have put in.
> 
> What does that say?


it says that eventually they will have to start buying equities because they will soon realize that they aren't generating enough return on their capital ... you simply cannot survive on ten-year treasuries ... the first rule is preservation of capital but it becomes moot if you make so little on your capital that you a forced to draw from it ... sooner or later there will be something resembling good news and the rush to get back into equities will begin


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## Miser (Apr 24, 2011)

fatcat said:


> it says that eventually they will have to start buying equities because they will soon realize that they aren't generating enough return on their capital ... you simply cannot survive on ten-year treasuries ... the first rule is preservation of capital but it becomes moot if you make so little on your capital that you a forced to draw from it ... sooner or later there will be something resembling good news and the rush to get back into equities will begin



Ya think?

Underlining stats look as gloomy as ever.
Preservation is what is going on now, not return.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Miser said:


> Underlining stats look as gloomy as ever.
> Preservation is what is going on now, not return.


Mutual Fund flows are very good contrarian indicators. Retail investors are notoriously for their bad timing.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

As an aside, and without starting a new topic, CNBC's 'Getting Back to Business', a town hall event', premiers Wednesday night at 9 P.M. and includes Kevin O'Leary as a panelist.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47741804


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## bettyboop (Dec 13, 2011)

it doesn't sound much different than Dragon's Den or Shark Tank.... they should have called it Snake Pit, lol.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Belguy said:


> Over the past four out of five weeks, investors have taken more out of U.S. equity markets than they have put in.
> 
> What does that say?


I am guilty of this ,took 100% of my USD stuff out for a profit .But my reason had nothing to do with what i think of USA just the rest of my portfolio was crappy so i booked some profits.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

In the past when mutual funds cash levels are @ historic lows the market is near or @ a historic high i.e., 2000 , 2007 @ bottoms cash level are high. Rydex cash levels & percent of cash in bull or bear funds a lot of traders find is a good indicator.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

*paging Avrex Central*

hmmmn does anyone think newbie is back for a 4th term as lonewolf, after being banned 3 times ?

let's see, there was newbie, followed by another persona with a different IP addy, followed by jet powder. The moderators banned em all.

each time he snuck back into the forum under a new name, newbie got mellower & mellower. The way he's been morphing, former troll newbie is going to wind up the sweetest little old gent in the whole of canada.

i wonder if this would work with belguy ? ban him, he'll come back with a new ID that's less boring. Ban him again & repeat. Pass this many times through the laundry wringer & even belguy might wind up half as interesting as Harold Crump each:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

A cat has nine lives. We are currently in the 3rd reincarnation of newbie.
Patience, dear friends, patience.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> A cat has nine lives. We are currently in the 3rd reincarnation of newbie.
> Patience, dear friends, patience.



if lonewolf does turn out to be newbie, it's the 4th appearance of the messiah.

i'm thinking banning is like electroshock therapy. When they come back, they're a little bit better. Eventually the improvement wears off so the mods have to shock em again ...


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

and apparently spelling and grammar skills improve as well, but only just.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

do U think there's hope for me Harold ?

(signed)
ee cummings crumb


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Turn on the SHIFT key on your laptop and then we'll talk.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

From time to time, there are suggestions that I should be banned from this forum. If so, what exactly have I done wrong? Precisely which forum rules have I broken? Why are others freely allowed to post their thoughts and opinions while suggesting that my postings should lead to my being banned?

If someone can clearly point out to me exactly what I am doing that is against forum rules, then I will cease those actions.

If, on the other hand, you simply do not like what I am saying, should that be enough reason for me to be banned?

Also, what is the difference between someone who frequently posts his thoughts on forums such as this and a so-called troll? What does a troll do in order to justify being banned by a forum?

While I do not feel that I should be banned for submitting my thoughts and opinions, I would like to know precisely what I am doing that is against forum rules and therefore justification for being banned.

I would like to put this matter to bed for once and for all. Either calls for my being banned are justified due to my breaking forum rules or they are completely unfounded.

Once I am made aware of exactly which forum rules I might be breaking, I will take the appropriate corrective measures. Thanks for your assistance in this matter.


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi Belguy,

Although we disagree on many points, I do not think you should be banned.

Heck, you are a great contrarian indicator, I'd hate to lose that.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I think the banning chat/decisions/warnings, should be left to the moderators to handle privately; members can participate politely by simply reporting inappropriate posts.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Well, that is one of my points--that I do not feel that I should be banned just because some don't agree with my opinions or point of view! Is expressing such opinion, even if repetitious, going against forum rules and cause for being banned?

This forum wouldn't be much of a free exchange of ideas if only some points of view were allowed and besides, if you don't want to read a certain member's comments, isn't that what the 'ignore' tool is for?

I think that the constant put-downs should be more against forum rules than should anything that I am doing.

Maybe it's a case of the pots are calling the kettle 'black' here!!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Lephturn
The poster in question constantly posts negative articles while claiming that he is a couch potato investor. But a couch potato investor sets and forgets things. With the amount of reading and posting we see, he would qualify as a trader. Plus his portfolio is not one of the recommended and tested mixes.

I think he has not earned the right to be banned. I think of him as a soft troll, living on CPP and OAS while living rent-free in his mom's house,and compaining about his portfolio returns. Like you say, he serves as a contrarian indicator. When he is silent or happy, it is time to sell equities.

Now that I have him on ignore again, I am happy.
Keith


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

belguy this thread is not about you.

it's about newbie, a somewhat dysfunctional forum member whom we are learning to love. It's also a running gag about whether banning a poster causes him or her to improve his behaviour when he returns. Like electroconvulsive shock therapy might do.

i suggested yourself & myself as examples. The question is, Would electroconvulsive shock banning cause yourself or cause myself to improve our behaviours.

either way, when you think about it, they're gonna zap us with an electrical current.

(aside to t.gal) dearest gal, may i nominate you as cmf forum delegate to join the mods, together the 3 of you can form the detonator troika.

(aside to the moderators) it's so stifling hot here nobody can breathe. I see a huge waterfight with garden hoses shaping up in this thread & i want to get in on it.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> I see a huge waterfight with garden hoses shaping up in this thread & i want to get in on it.


I want to get in on it too; I'm all for WBFs [well-behaved fights]. 

Time to chill-out!


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Do NOT ban Belguy. 

DO ban newbie. Honestly I am starting to wonder if newbie is even a troll anymore. It's more like he needs to be abused so he writes in a certain way to enrage people and get the satisfying lashing.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Note to Toronto.gal: Exactly what is your definition of an "inappropriate post"? This is the crux of what I am trying to come to grips with!

One of my definitions would be posts that amount to personal attacks on any forum participant.

Statements such as "living rent free in his mom's house" would, in my opinion, fall within that category. I do not believe that I have EVER posted such a personal comment about any forum member--EVER!! The person who wrote this does not know all of my circumstances.

And HE has ME on his 'ignore' list!!!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Belguy said:


> Note to Toronto.gal: Exactly what is your definition of an "inappropriate post"?


My definition is not important as I'm not a moderator here. 

For the record, I have never reported any post of yours; the ones I have reported were due to the fact that, in some way, I found them offensive [I'm not talking about sarcastic humour or harmless political incorrectness]. 

My advice is to mix things up; a good dose of optimism every now & then is healthy!


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Well, I spend more time than I should watching the business channels and I don't see a good deal of optimism on them either and so I am not alone.

Back when things weren't quite so grim, I was advising everyone to set up a 'Couch Potato' portfolio. That seemed to be a positive approach at the time although it has not worked out all that well lately. And so, it is not that I am incapable of being positive when circumstances call for it.

Some day, THESE might even be the good old days!!:dispirited::uncomfortableness::eek-new::confused2:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bedlam reigns at the tea table. Flying crumpets whiz through the air. Jam, clotted cream, cheese bites & broken cookies go splattering off in all directions.

the Mock Turtle seizes a giant pavlova cake & plants it upside down on the March Hare's head. Raspberries trickle down the Hare's chin. His long floppy ears stick up through the whipped cream.

if you bare your teeth one more time this plate of chocolate profiteroles has your name on it, says the Mad Hatter to the Cheshire Cat's Grin.

the Grin reaches down, takes off the Mad Hatter's top hat & pours the cream jug onto his shockingly bald head.

by now the remaining guests at the tea table are screaming & shrieking. Some are tugging the tablecloth off. Others are trying to turn the table over.

run, Alice, says the Canadian Caterpillar, as he philosophically packs up his hookah pipe.

the Froggy Footman strips off his livery to reveal that he's really alexandre despatie in speedo diving trunks. He seizes a garden hose & directs the spray full blast onto the remains of the tea table.

Alice & Toronto Gal appear in teeny bikinis, a short distance away. They, too, have garden hoses turned on full blast.

suddenly, Alice hears a tiny wail. It's the Dormouse, still tied by his bib to his high chair at the tea table. She races into the deluge of water pouring from the hoses, unties the Dormouse & hugs him tight. 

we'll just stand here in the shower of cold water, you can't imagine how cooling it will be, she whispers.

why do they complain about me so much, sobs the Dormouse. Is it because i'm the one who started the food fight.

no, it's because you're becoming our Mascot, whispers Alice. But isn't this water marvellous, on a sweltering day like today.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> paging Avrex Central


You called? lol.

So far, so good for *lonewolf.* I don't believe he is...
user newbie (banned) = user moneyisfornothing (banned) = user jet powder (banned)



Causalien said:


> Do NOT ban Belguy. DO ban newbie.


Agreed. I like the articles that Belguy posts.
Even though he is in good financial shape for his retirement, he's worried about the rest of getting there intact. He just wants to warn us. 
Kinda, like a father figure.



humble_pie said:


> bedlam reigns at the tea table...


Keep these 'Alice' chapters coming. We need this entertainment after a crappy market day.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

HP, that was your best one yet. You made me lol.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

From where I sit, the slowdown in the global economy would appear to be intensifying and it has started to adversely affect corporate earnings which can't be good for stocks.

The world's central bankers will, sooner (I hope!) or later (let's hope that it is not too little, too late) be forced to get more aggressive if we are to avoid a worldwide recession.


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## Miser (Apr 24, 2011)

Yup, the slide is on the way.
QE3 and then more slide.
Debt has to be paid sometime and there is gonna be a TON of it!


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Some dividend payers for tough times:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...yout-kings-of-canadian-stocks/article4360701/


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Miser said:


> Yup, the slide is on the way.
> QE3 and then more slide.
> Debt has to be paid sometime and there is gonna be a TON of it!


If used properly, government stimulus could do a great deal of good.

Leaking water pipelines, crumbling bridges...........all need attention.

We have a worker shortage in the west..............and a job shortage in the east.

How about a plan to bring them together. The jobs aren't coming east........so the people have to go west.

Training and relocation support................that is what is needed.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

sags said:


> We have a worker shortage in the west..............and a job shortage in the east.
> How about a plan to bring them together. The jobs aren't coming east........so the people have to go west.


That is what they are trying to do.
The recent changes in the EI rules were a step in that direction.
The govt. has to tread carefully, lest they get accused of being anti-socialist and leaving people to die in the gutter.

This is not China or North Korea where the govt. can simply _tell_ people where to go, what work to do, how many babies to have, and how much they are allowed to eat.


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## mriegger (May 18, 2012)

re: dividend stocks. Is anyone else getting a little weirded out by how much talk there is of these things? Euro-Pacific Capital gave me a cold call last week to let me know that they now had a Vancouver office and were going to specialize in, well, dividend stocks.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> That is what they are trying to do.
> The recent changes in the EI rules were a step in that direction.
> The govt. has to tread carefully, lest they get accused of being anti-socialist and leaving people to die in the gutter.
> 
> *This is not China or North Korea where the govt. can simply tell people where to go, what work to do, how many babies to have, and how much they are allowed to eat.*


+1.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

mriegger said:


> Euro-Pacific Capital gave me a cold call last week to let me know that they now had a Vancouver office and were going to specialize in, well, dividend stocks.


\Yes they opened up a couple of year ago. I get the Peter Schiff newsletter and so was on their hit list. Another full service investment house. The problem is that Schiff is a permabear and has missed the market lift since 2009.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Peter Schiff I believe also expected the US dollar to head to zero and an almost hyper inflation to here by now. He has been right on the expect the debt to hit the fan and the crap that has gone on but his timing has been way off so it hasn't really helped a lot.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Good article today by Barry Ritholtz:


> Yesterday’s ugliness has the pundits looking at numerous explanations, correlations and motivations for what was the causation of the 2+% market sublimation.
> 
> All those “-ations” leave out the most important one: Rationalization. For that is what all of these tales actually were.
> 
> ...


As a hedge fund trader, he has a very realistic view of the markets. It makes a sobering read for anyone trying to trade daily.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Alice & the Dormouse sat companionably together on the powdery white sand, near the water's edge, sipping on tall frosted glasses of shandygaff.

where are we now, asked the Dormouse.

i told you when we were biking over, said Alice. We're on the beach near Penzance.

are there any pirates around, said the Dormouse nervously.

not for centuries, said Alice.

that waterfight was so fun, warbled the Dormouse. Did you see me shooting a giant splash right in the Caterpillar's eye ?

you did not, said Alice. You've never held anything as heavy as a garden hose in your entire life.

of course i have, sang the Dormouse. Hold & prosper, that's always been my advice ...

please don't start talking like that, said Alice. I was thinking i might take you to the Scilly Isles on the ferryboat tomorrow. But i won't if you start reeling off newspaper articles & spouting gibberish.

the Dormouse leaned closer & whispered to Alice in a tiny voice.

i'm lying, he said. The raw truth is that poker is much better."


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> That is what they are trying to do.
> The recent changes in the EI rules were a step in that direction.
> The govt. has to tread carefully, lest they get accused of being anti-socialist and leaving people to die in the gutter.
> 
> This is not China or North Korea where the govt. can simply _tell_ people where to go, what work to do, how many babies to have, and how much they are allowed to eat.


What EI change? Can I exploit it now?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

They said that if you're on EI for a certain length of time, you are no longer allowed to refuse jobs because they are below your old pay grade. I can't remember the details.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Can't one just stop looking?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Causalien said:


> What EI change?


It was all over the news about a month ago.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...anadians-face-crackdown-under-federal-changes

Until these changes were announced, I never knew that someone on EI had the option to turn down a job that was 1 hr. away from home.
I found that outrageous esp. in the large metropolises such as the GTA where a 1 hr. commute is considered excellent these days.


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## Dopplegangerr (Sep 3, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> Alice & the Dormouse sat companionably together on the powdery white sand, near the water's edge, sipping on tall frosted glasses of shandygaff.
> 
> where are we now, asked the Dormouse.
> 
> ...


Haha I dont know if I have told you this humble but you are awesome, this well thought out Alice and wonderland posts are hilarious. Its been so many years since I have read threw the looking glass or Alice in wonderland, I can barely remember what is actually written. But it sounds so close it could be verbatim. Some how managing to slip little personal finance snippets and market sentiment into your posts to poke fun at some of the others on here is just brilliant. 

I appreciate your wit, keep up the good work


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Oh gawd, don't encourage him!! On the other hand, while Alice in Wonderland is not exactly my thing, I do have to admit that there is an element of creativity in humble's postings and so who is to deny him.

"Canadians can no longer rely on bull markets to carry them through their golden years."--MoneySense


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Dopplegangerr said:


> Some how managing to slip little personal finance snippets and market sentiment into your posts to poke fun at some of the others on here is just brilliant.


Whether the content/criticism/humour in the A. in W. chapters, meets your approval [or hurts your feelings], the writing is brilliant I must say, so I agree with you Dopple.

If the message is directed at you, think if you were the cause & brought it upon yourself [remember this is a public forum where people will not always be tolerant], so stop what you're doing now [be a bit less annoying]. 

I recommend for those that lack humour:


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Gawd that image will now stick in my mind whenever (s)he posts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

s(he)pecial for kcowan

.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> s(he)pecial for kcowan


Thanks I can live with that one.


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## scomac (Aug 22, 2009)

I preferred the since scrubbed previous version. I'm not sure how a classic piece of album cover art warranted censure, but I suppose that is the way with some folks. All I can say is if that bothers you, don't go to Italy, or Greece or France or Spain or, or ,or....


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

*HP:* très élégant; robe/bijoux/cheveux!

Myself, toujours I love simple contrasts: 
















*scomac:* you can't compare Europe to NA, and why would you want to anyway, if you live here? The billboards there for example, are for sure far racier than what would be allowed here [let's leave the beaches & Berlusconi out], but that is not to say that we should avoid places just because we don't agree with their, hmmm, let's say liberalism. 

But this is 'a respectable forum' as someone here once said. By the way, would you like a pic. of a naked man here? Just asking, oh and if you don't, then plz forget European and Brazilian beaches. :biggrin:

Not a 'sad' thread after all. :tongue-new:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> By the way, would you like a pic. of a naked man here? Just asking.


yes, definitely. I think we should really make Frugal's day for him, no ?

(aside to scomac) i'll put zylon's album cover up, if i can find it again. I had no idea what Zyl was going on about. Turned out to be some old hippie brit & his band from the 1970s that i never heard of. But they called themselves Humble Pie. Is that zylon a master music archivist or what.

it was an album cover with a black naked art deco version of the gal in white.


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## cedebe (Feb 1, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> <snip>
> 
> it was an album cover with a black naked art deco version of the gal in white.


To some perhaps... to others it's Aubrey Beardsley's 'The Stomach Dance' with some band's name slapped on along the side. (From the Victorian era, btw.)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

cedebe said:


> To some perhaps... to others it's Aubrey Beardsley's 'The Stomach Dance' with some band's name slapped on along the side. (From the Victorian era, btw.)


wonderful. Are you able to put the original up ? Scomac will be happy.

plus it's real art. Squeaky clean for families. Educational for children. Frugal will be happy, too.

ps was that a victorian fetish, to call a belly dance a stomach dance ??


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> 1. Turned out to be some old hippie brit & his band from the 1970s that i never heard of. But they called themselves Humble Pie.
> 2. Is that zylon a master music archivist or what.


1. I guess I'm 2 young coz I never heard of them either. That's what makes this forum so great; you learn something new every single day & don't ya just love the visuals?! 

2. Indeed, he's CMF's music king! :biggrin:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

as cedebe says, Zylon's album cover was taken from victorian artist aubrey beardsley, from a series of prints of Salome dancing with her seven veils before her father king Herod.

i stumbled into so much fascinating, rivetting stuff about beardsley that i have to go back to review it later. He died in 1898 at the age of only 26 (Q: what did he die of ? overdose ? at that time artists & writers were into a lot of opium)

he left behind him many magnificent prints in the purest art deco style. The resemblance to japanese ukiyo-e woodcuts that were just then beginning to filter through europe is striking.

here is a marvellous online book presenting what seems to be a lot of beardsley's oeuvre. 

http://beardsley.artpassions.net/

no question but beardsley liked bare-breasted women. Here, in the best spirit of family cultural edification, is another print of one.


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*LOL - only in Canada, eh?*

If I ever post a photo of a piano, I'll be sure it has leg coverings.

I'm told that in Queen Victoria's time, finely sculptured piano legs had to be covered, as men were considered not able to suppress their natural urges upon seeing such fine carpentry. True story!

I guess this is a definite no-no?
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/arts/artwork/michelangelo.htm


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## riseofamillionaire (Feb 23, 2012)

Belguy said:


> As a buy-and-hold investor, I have not experienced net growth in my 'Couch Potato' portfolio over the past five years. I am not alone. Many investors, hoping to retire at age 65 have had to put their plans on hold because they have not been able to achieve their planned savings and investment objectives. Not only that, but, with great uncertainty in Europe, things could get a whole lot worse before they get better.
> 
> Here is a column by the G&M's Rob Carrick on this subject:
> 
> ...


Ditch the index - own more unknown, underappreciated stocks with steady earnings growth, little to no debt, easy to understand businesses, with niches, and that don't pay their executives lavish salaries (MTY, SAT, AD, SJ, CGX, CMG come to mind). This takes quite a lot of time and work.

Stop using the index as a benchmark - If you invest in the index one must expect long periods of stagnation of 10-20 years every 50 years or so, much like what happend in the late 60s to early 80s and right now. If you want to stick with the index, the best thing to do is just buy indecriminantly and maintain a positive attitude. Ask any old investor whos 90+ years old what the most important thing about investing - it's almost always patience.


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

wow, maybe i don't read enough of belguy's threads to see what the fuss is about, but i feel like he is being treated much too harshly, and i think he's being misunderstood (at least based on this thread).

he has an opinion about something, which happens to differ from most others on this forum. is open discussion not the purpose of this forum? a place where people can share ideas and open each others' minds to new thoughts and possibilities?

i didn't get the feeling from this thread that he thinks the end of the world is near. yah, the title is kind of provocative, but no more than a newspaper headline, and we all take those at face value, right?

and even if he professes (or professed) to be pro-couch potato and yet seems to advocate practices to the contrary... so what? so he's a hypocrite. that doesn't seem like just cause to ban him from the forum. who among us has not been hypocritical at one point or another?

can't we all just get along?


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Joncna

I totally agree. The funny thing is some sugest using Bulguy as a barometer for gauging the market. I think a better indicator is the number of hate posts he gets when he posts regarding the direction of the market. I remember Robert Prechter the voted market guru of the 80s saying if he did not get a lot hate mail when he made a call for an important turn in the market, he knew he made a bad call.

Tim Wood A friend of mine lost a lot of subscribers & recieved hate mail @ the time he called the market top in 2007.

Newton became famous & many apply his concept but they have failed to go just one step further to that of cycles & the day will come when the coach potatoe style investing will fail to work. Like Galileo, great independent thinks like Burguy that understands the truth is his friend will be ridiculed to the highest degree just before the turn takes place.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

On the internet, you meet all kinds. I suppose that, if you had to show your real name, things would be more civil but, with anonymity, comes a lack of civility at times. I see their comments as a form of bullying. In fact, many of the same folks who do these putdowns were probably bullies at times during their lives. Anyway, as I said before, I see it as more of a negative reflection on them than on me. People can only hurt you if you let them hurt you. The fact that I am still on this forum indicates that I haven't let them get to me and I won't!!


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Belguy said:


> more of a negative reflection on them


+1


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