# No laptops on flights? This is nuts



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

US and UK are banning larger electronic items on flights from several countries:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-s-electronics-ban-flights-from-mideast-africa-1.4033962
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39343971

I'm an engineer and this is nuts. Will Canada follow the US and UK? I hope not... how are business travellers supposed to go between countries when they can't keep their laptop with them? Kuwait, Istanbul, Riyadh, Dubai -- these are major cities for business travellers from western countries.

This is going to hurt business. Business travellers need to keep laptops with them. The laptop has trade secrets, and is delicate. Easily broken. Easily lost in transfers, meaning it won't arrive when you arrive and you are absolutely screwed if you have to do business meetings.

This move is very bad for business.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Canada is following but unless you fly from countries known for jihad you'll never know it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

What a clueless comment, Eder.

Do you have any idea how much Canadian and American business travel happens between these hubs? In my small American office, just off the top of my head I can count 5 flights we've had from these cities within the last few months.

After work I met a woman in the elevator of my apartment building who was talking about the impact on her business travel.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

So we ignore threats due to them coming from countries that are fashionably in favor? We wait till a plane goes down with 400 innocents? I was in business as well...most with laptops are watching torrent movies, candy crush or porn. Your indignation is telling as to where you want to go with this thread...I thought for fun to take the bait lol. Have fun.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I am actually surprised this has not happened long before now. Security at many airports can be easily compromised (either in quality or nefarious infiltration of security personnel) AND tablets. cameras and laptops can now hide new types of plastique explosives. Maybe not enough to bring down a plane, but none the less, a risk. At one time, Athens security was another example of being porous as a sieve too (maybe still is) and flights coming out of Athens were at some risk. Many airports such as Schiphol in the Netherlands had (and I believe still have) secondary screening, especially by American airlines before one could board an American airlines flight back to the USA. I used to go through that secondary screening every 3 weeks or so on my business shuttles to/from Europe to Houston. The 'blacklisted' airports/countries have a ways to go to convince a lot of us they are worthy of their own security.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I am sure they will come up with some sort of system to clear laptops for certain people and find a way to check and clear equipment before boarding. However for the UK to also jump in means there is a threat here so Eder is right.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Then we are on the brink of watching an overhaul is how business travel occurs. It's going to start now -- and I don't know what the solution is.

Even our small office staff of engineers and business people is involved with 1-2 flights per week. Laptops are always carried with us. It would be reckless, and our legal department would have words with us, if we checked the laptops.

Our staff who take longer flights are doing work on the flights. On my business trip this month, I did about 3 hours of work on the flights. This makes the difference between a late night in the hotel and a comfortable sleep since my work is done by the time I land.

That factor is even more important on these long flights from places like Dubai and Istanbul. It will cripple a business traveler to not be able to work during a flight.

If laptops are truly a threat, then fine, BUT a new solution is going to be needed because this is about to disrupt the globe's business travel. No business traveller in their right mind checks laptops. Government and many corporate workers are also carrying sensitive information with them.

Do you think that the oil engineer or M&A guy coming from Dubai is going to check his laptop?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Do you think that the oil engineer or M&A guy coming from Dubai is going to check his laptop?


Indeed those will be real issues, especially with theft from baggage handlers and/or sensitive data (encrypted or not) on such laptops. I don't know what the solution will be other than perhaps some real attention to the security protocols and personnel in those locations. FWIW, I'd often put in 6 hours of laptop work on my return trips to Houston from Europe BUT if it was not allowed, then the company wouldn't expect that productivity from me either. 

BUT on the other side of that coin, it is hard to imagine security quality could be more or less equal from all International airports anyway.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

I've read that there is very specific threat information that was discovered in materials found in January. I can't imagine it would take much to blow a small hole in a plane.

That said, yes, it would be hell for business travellers. I've had to put a laptop in checked baggage on a US flight, and Delta promptly destroyed said laptop.

I wonder if this will only apply to commercial flights, or charters and other private flights, as well.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I was in business as well...most with laptops are watching torrent movies, candy crush or porn.


 :lemo:



> Later Tuesday, Britain announced similar restrictions on direct flights from Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia for the safety of the public


 Not planing to fly in any of those countries, but I agree with such decision


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Watch the ban spread over the years and become the norm, even for domestic travel.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Watch the ban spread over the years and become the norm, even for domestic travel.


Don't believe it will be on domestic flights, but in any case, I don't care, If I need my laptop , I will check it in with luggage


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

James is not what one would call a law and order guy. Whether its the border guard between US and Canada checking the content of cell phones or the young Russian hacker in Lancaster, Ont. who really didn't do much heavy duty hacking and besides he should be forgiven because he is young or now the protest against the restriction on large electronic devices aboard flights fr certain middle east countries, he is against the exercise of governmental authority to prevent terroristic attacks.

Don't vote for politicians who believe that everyone is your friend and goodness and 
love will prevail. Who believe the business elites are above the law.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

People should add this minor irritation to a long list they should thank the Islamic terrorists for.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

From the Globe this morning: "it was reported by The New York Times that intelligence showed Islamic State is developing a bomb hidden in portable electronics."

I'm as pro-business as anyone, but I'm also anti-bombs-on-planes.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Building an electronic wall? Or how about shielding airspaces, you know like that from the movie Star Trek where they shield the USS Enterprises from alien invasions.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Jack.Styner: if you know of a better way, please share it with the world.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Besides the security issues, laptops used for communicating with terrorists in the USA, the main problem would be the lithuim ion batteries that can overheat and cause a fire.
Samsung had a serious problem with theirs in their smartphones. Batteries overheated and burned inside the cellphone. Even one of their cellphone factoriwes caught on fire due to defective batteries. 

I don't blame the airlines for cracking down. A battery overheeating in a storage bin, under the seat or even while being used could cause a serious
fire on a plane at 30K feet , and if it's really bad, even bring the plane down. I wouldn't want to be travelling on a plane with a bunch of other passengers
all using their laptops while in the air.
What did airline travellers do before laptops and iphones came along? 

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/22/14353458/samsung-eight-step-battery-test-exploding-smartphones

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017...ulty-batteries-galaxy-note-7-battery-supplier

The problem started with use of lithum batteries and the chemistry involved. The chemistry is active all the time. Lap tops still use a bit of energy
while in standby mode, so do cell phones. The point is that batteries have to be maintained properly as well. 
On a laptop, the lithium battery can be removed quite easily to avoid short circuiting due to discharge, but it's not as easy to remove it in a cell phone,
if you are planning to use it immediately.
Battery technology (different chemistry in the lithium ion batteries)will eventually stop any explosions due to short circuits.

Recently there was an incident out west somewhere where some guy carrying a lithium replacement battery for a e-cigarette had it literally explode in his
pants pocket causing a big hole and severe burns to his leg and fingers. In this case it was some loose change causing a short circuit and may
be an isolated case, but the Samsung phones had several incidents.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I don't understand why only certain countries such as Turkey are impacted. It would be very simple for someone with evil in their heart to simply take a train or bus to another adjacent country and board the aircraft there, thus avoiding the embargo at IST. Same for some of the other impacted countries.

We understand it. Not great for us. We travel frequently and only do carry on luggage. I guess that is about to end since I believe this ban has to spread if it is going to be effective in any sense of the word.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Jack.Styner said:


> Oh. I didn't know about this. Can fires really be caused by laptops in bags on flights?


Yes, there was at least one incident of a Samsung cell phone catching fire in an overhead storage bin. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ne-Chennai-amid-fears-handsets-dangerous.html

Cell phones with lithium batteries, don't put them under your pillow at night. 
http://abc7ny.com/news/photos-cell-phone-overheats-catches-fire-under-pillow/1202175/


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

james4beach said:


> If laptops are truly a threat, then fine, BUT a new solution is going to be needed because this is about to disrupt the globe's business travel. No business traveller in their right mind checks laptops. Government and many corporate workers are also carrying sensitive information with them.


If they are a threat?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daallo_Airlines_Flight_159


If you have sensitive data on them then can put that into the cloud and retrieve it later.
Inconvenience to not be able to work, well that's the new norm. Remember when you didn't have to take your shoes off before getting on a plane?


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Jack.Styner said:


> Couldn't they invest more in making tech that can detect dangerous things like bombs in laptops?


And how quickly would that tech become available? If they think the threat is imminent, investing more now to develop tech to be rolled out in the future seems like an inadequate response.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Jack.Styner said:


> wouldn't this adversely affect business men who need their laptops(because of sensitive data) with them?


Lithium batteries if overheated can catch fire. On laptops the battery is easy to remove. Problem is that then the battery is exposed on its own, and IF airport security scan it, they will confiscate it as being a dangerous item. 
Remember they still confiscate, toothpaste, baby formula, hand creams and other chemical liquids. A lithium battery
separated from it's laptop...right into the plastic garbage can... if you try to take it on board with you in the banned countries.


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

I don't think that concerns about batteries catching fire are behind this. Laptop batteries will or won't catch fire whether they are coming from Abu Dhabi or Zürich or Topeka.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

yyz said:


> If they are a threat?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daallo_Airlines_Flight_159
> 
> ...


And those body scans.......you can scan me but don't touch my "junk".


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Davis said:


> I don't think that concerns about batteries catching fire are behind this. Laptop batteries will or won't catch fire whether they are coming from Abu Dhabi or Zürich or Topeka.


I agree, but unfortunately the Samsung battery problems have spilled over into the air travel industry. Even if 1 Samsung battery out of 1 million laptops/cellphones catches fire on a plane, (whether in use or in storage bin) is ONE TOO MANY. 

A fire on a plane at 30K feet with oxygen being generated by oxygen generators could become out of control very quickly and
you would not want to be on that plane! Over 10K altitude, oxygen is generated on the plane for the passengers. Chemical oxygen generators
are use for cabin and oxygen mask use. Thankfully there is no more smoking these days, but the lithium batteries are not immune.


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

It's not about the batteries.


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

Jack.Styner said:


> Clouds are not safe for sensitive information. The data is vulnerable in clouds


Ok so what do you think is being stored there? Just casual info?I doubt it.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> I agree, but unfortunately the Samsung battery problems have spilled over into the air travel industry. Even if 1 Samsung battery out of 1 million laptops/cellphones catches fire on a plane, (whether in use or in storage bin) is ONE TOO MANY.
> 
> A fire on a plane at 30K feet with oxygen being generated by oxygen generators could become out of control very quickly and
> you would not want to be on that plane! Over 10K altitude, oxygen is generated on the plane for the passengers. Chemical oxygen generators
> are use for cabin and oxygen mask use. Thankfully there is no more smoking these days, but the lithium batteries are not immune.


 ... agree too and I hope they extend it to a complete ban of ALL electronic devices, gadgets (tablets, smartphones, etc.) to ALL countries. That way, passengers can now pay attention to those safety crash instructions given aboard or catch up on some sleep if not interested.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... agree too and I hope they extend it to a complete ban of ALL electronic devices, gadgets (tablets, smartphones, etc.) to ALL countries. That way, passengers can now pay attention to those* safety crash instructions given aboard* or catch up on some sleep if not interested.


Yes. I remember being on a westjet flight. Right after boarding, the stewardess was given her "pay attention to the safety procedures and read the seat pocket card for emergency exit info" preflight routine.
Hardly anyone was looking up to watch her. They were sitting either with earbuds on, or flipping through their iphones. 

She had to stop and go to each one and tell them to put away the MP3 or cellphone and really pay attention until after they were airborne.
Most aircraft emergencies occur during takeoff and landing and if the passengers don't follow instructions..they could be doomed, but everyone is so complacent now to travelling with these devices, they forget where they are.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Jack.Styner said:


> Couldn't they invest more in making tech that can detect dangerous things like bombs in laptops?


Good luck, criminals are always one step ahead.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

For goodness' sake..... read a book, have a drink or take a nap!


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Don't you love the design of the new planes where people plug into the back of the seat in front of them. Ok, now how does F get out of their seat, stepping over cords if they need to? Naw, just walk through them.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Wow, big changes....


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I was about to hit the buy button on a new carry on rollerboard. We only travel with carry on. Will put the purchase on hold pending whether this spreads to all airlines...which I think it must in order to be effective. Not good.


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

Jack.Styner said:


> Check these articles and see how safe clouds are
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...aling-over-60-million-passwords-a7218521.html
> http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/12/16/why-hackers-love-cloud.html
> http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news...-as-a-fruit-bearing-jackpot-for-cyber-attacks


So a company network is hackable to so what "secrets" are ever 100% safe?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> james4beach said:
> 
> 
> > Watch the ban spread over the years and become the norm, even for domestic travel.
> ...


With the dents I've had added to my luggage ... no way am I checking my laptop or a company laptop.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Davis said:


> From the Globe this morning: "it was reported by The New York Times that intelligence showed Islamic State is developing a bomb hidden in portable electronics."
> I'm as pro-business as anyone, but I'm also anti-bombs-on-planes.


??? ... materials have made it onto planes embedded in shoes and underwear - is the next step to be flying naked? :biggrin:


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I am actually surprised this has not happened long before now. Security at many airports can be easily compromised (either in quality or nefarious infiltration of security personnel) AND tablets. cameras and laptops can now hide new types of plastique explosives. Maybe not enough to bring down a plane, but none the less, a risk ...


If the security quality isn't good for carry on ... why's the baggage security going to be better?

Makes more sense to have more screening than an outright ban as I suspect a bomb in the cargo area is just as bad.



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> Lithium batteries if overheated can catch fire. On laptops the battery is easy to remove. Problem is that then the battery is exposed on its own, and IF airport security scan it, they will confiscate it as being a dangerous item ...


And to think I used to have to power up my laptop as checkin security to prove it was a working laptop instead of a shell containing a bomb ... :rolleyes2:


Cheers

*PS*

Worst case was having to power up the laptop when entering the building each day then another round at airport security.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> Yes. I remember being on a westjet flight. Right after boarding, the stewardess was given her "pay attention to the safety procedures and read the seat pocket card for emergency exit info" preflight routine.
> 
> Hardly anyone was looking up to watch her. They were sitting either with earbuds on, or flipping through their iphones ...
> 
> Most aircraft emergencies occur during takeoff and landing and if the passengers don't follow instructions..they could be doomed, but *everyone is so complacent now* to travelling with these devices, they forget where they are.


Are they complacent? Or are they sick of hearing the spiel for the 90+ time in the year?


Cheers


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Jack.Styner said:


> wouldn't this adversely affect business men who need their laptops(because of sensitive data) with them?


And business women too.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> And to think I used to have to power up my laptop as checkin security to prove it was a working laptop instead of a shell containing a bomb ... :rolleyes2:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

steve41 said:


> For goodness' sake..... read a book, have a drink or take a nap!


Where there's one flight that is less than an hour, no problem.

Three connections with longer flying time to end up putting in a seventy hour week - making use of the flying time helps.




Beaver101 said:


> Eclectic12 said:
> 
> 
> > *PS*
> ...


Not close ... Canadian consulting firm that had me loaned out to the US consulting firm that had a project for a US stock exchange.

I have worked with a former CSIS manager ... would that count? :wink:


Cheers


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Chill out watch a movie and relax. Stop being such a go-getter. Your work will be there when you land.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

This is ridiculous.

It won't presently affect me as I don't fly to the places where the ban is imposed, but I feel for those who do. If this goes domestic, or between US/Canada/Europe, I'll be very upset. It's not a matter of watching a movie or reading a book when you have work to do. And even if you don't have work to do, some of us don't want our devices beyond our reach. 

Perhaps if they provide lockers on board where staff take your device, lock it away, and hand it to you as you leave, that might be somewhat acceptable. But there's no way we're putting our devices into the care of baggage handlers.

The control being imposed on citizens that travel has gone beyond stupid.

Given the news coming from London today, perhaps we should ban cars as well.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

tygrus said:


> Chill out watch a movie and relax. Stop being such a go-getter. Your work will be there when you land.


That's the problem ... the work is there on arrival where doing it on the plane avoids extra hours during the week or using one's off time to finish it.


Cheers


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Security trumps freedom. I support the move. Just sit still and try to enjoy the trip.

Better yet, get some video conferencing and stay home and reduce your carbon footprint. We used to have people where I worked who would fly 4 hrs there and 4 back for a 2 hr meeting. Most business travel is unnecessary


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

tygrus said:


> Security trumps freedom.


Excellent philosophy. Put humans in cages and drip feed them all that's sufficient for their survival. That way the government can control our nutrition, exposure to pollutants, severely restrict life threatening accidents, and increase our longevity and the future existence of our species.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

bobsyouruncle said:


> The control being imposed on citizens that travel has gone beyond stupid.


Yes. If the only focus is "security trumps freedom" then there is no end to what measures you "need" to take. Eventually we will be travelling naked, covered only with paper jump suits <-- this could seriously happen. Excuse me stewardess, I tore a hole in my travel pyjama, may I have another?

Many on this board are clearly the fearful type, saying they will allow any measures possible to stay safe. Well let's get some perspective here: air travel is incredibly safe. It's safer than driving to the airport, it's safer than driving to work.

Terrorism remains one of the lowest risks, in absolute terms, in our daily lives.

So no, I do not agree with giving up endless freedoms and conveniences for what is a statistical rounding error in risk of death.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

The above posts on a day where there was another. Islamic extremist terror attack in London.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

This is nuts, is it? Do you still take your shoes off as well and put them through the x-ray machine? I don't think we're talking about a country or industry that is necessarily thinking rationally about this. You're already able to be essentially scanned naked through the millimeter wave scanners as well.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

James eventually that little screen in the seat will probably include a keyboard then you can just access data from the cloud and never need your device in the cabin again.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

tygrus said:


> James eventually that little screen in the seat will probably include a keyboard then you can just access data from the cloud and never need your device in the cabin again.


It doesn't solve the need to keep your device with you. No one wants their $1500 technology to be cared for by baggage handlers.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

wraphter said:


> The above posts on a day where there was another. Islamic extremist terror attack in London.



Yes. Let's ban cars.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Seriously limit the amount of Muslim immigration would work better. It would also result in a decrease in right wing populism and nationalism.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

On the BBC ,the police guy making the announcement referred to the perpetrator as part of international terrorism. He didn't mention Radical Islam. 

Teresa. May gave some kind of typically British stiff upper lip speech about how we won't be intimidated and how we will carry on. The dead people of course won't carry on. They're dead. 


Nothing like watching a country self- district.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying

(a) you think the UK is self-destructing. After 300 years, it was immigration of muslims that finally destroyed the great UK
(b) because there are some terrorists, I should happily give up all my conveniences in travel, even those that impede my business

Do I have that right?

And how do you respond to the fact that there _have always been terrorists_?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

> From http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/17/w...-civilian-deaths-in-its-30-year-campaign.html, 'We offer our sincere apologies and condolences'' to the families of ''noncombatants,'' the group said. *Of the 1,800 people killed by the I.R.A. since the late 1960's, about 650 were civilians* rather than members of security forces or paramilitary organizations.


Pop quiz: how many people have been killed by islamic terrorists in the UK ?

Answer: about 330 if you count the Lockerbie bombing carried out by the Libyan state.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

wraphter said:


> Seriously limit the amount of Muslim immigration would work better. It would also result in a decrease in right wing populism and nationalism.


I agree with this.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Not just terrorism. Devices have been exploding as well.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

James,I have had a tough life. I am not as successful as you. I do not travel for business. No way would I be considered an elite. Life to me has been sink or swim, do or die. 

I find a lot of the comments about not being able to use a laptop to be narcissistic and self- indulgent. Sort of like Marie Antoinette saying let them eat cake.

Those social forces which you deplore, right wing populism, gain their strength
from the increase in radical Islamist terrorism. It is the fuel that feeds the fire of leaders like Le Pen, Wilders and Trump.
Take away the immigration problem and those type of leaders disappear too.

There are other things to consider besides losing the ability to use a laptop on a plane.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

wraphter I'm sorry to hear about the tough life. I am not too successful. I work damned hard, lose my job every few years, have to travel between regions and even countries looking for work, and as an only child I support a family of aging parents and aunts. I travel not for fun, but because I have to -- my job demands it, and it's constantly exhausting me.

Well, where does it stop wraphter? Everything is dangerous to some degree. My belt has a sharp edge and could be used to harm people. Perhaps belts should be banned.

My underwear has an elastic band. Whilst sitting in my airplane seat, I could strip the elastic off my underwear waistband, wrap it around someone's throat and strangle them.

Many women wear earrings. A motivated, evil woman could use the sharpened tip to stab out someone's eyeballs. Many of those silver edges are reasonably sharp.

You might look at this scene and see a frightening airplane where a man with his underwear torn off is strangling people, someone else is murdering people with his belt, and a woman is poking out eyeballs with her earrings.

There is no end to this, until -- as I said before -- we are all flying naked and wearing paper jumpsuits.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I thought of another danger for airplanes. The KinderSurprise. After smuggling the chocolate treat on board, the seemingly innocent child passes the concealed toy to his father.

The evil terrorist father then pretends to play with his child using the toy, but in a swift move, jams the micro-toy up the stewardess's nose, paralyzing her with pain and possibly killing her in the process. He wields the Kinder Surprise as a weapon in case anyone else dares approach him.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

tygrus said:


> ... Better yet, get some video conferencing and stay home and reduce your carbon footprint. We used to have people where I worked who would fly 4 hrs there and 4 back for a 2 hr meeting. Most business travel is unnecessary


Agreed ... but when the client writes into the contract that consultants will be onsite only, the choice is to sit on the bench (where one is top of the list to be fired when business slows down) or go with it.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

doctrine said:


> ... Do you still take your shoes off as well and put them through the x-ray machine? I don't think we're talking about a country or industry that is necessarily thinking rationally about this.


I've never been all that confident in the rules that are used.

Have a poppy with a stick pin in it? Sorry ... it's a weapon, we have to confiscate it.
Have a laptop lock with a long cable with chunk of metal on it? No problem ... have a nice day.



Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eclectic12 said:


> Have a poppy with a stick pin in it? Sorry ... it's a weapon, we have to confiscate it.
> Have a laptop lock with a long cable with chunk of metal on it? No problem ... have a nice day.


It's security theatre -- a facade, and unnecessary inconvenience. The people in this thread saying "it's necessary to keep us safe" are convinced by the theatrical performance.

Baggage handlers and airport employees already have access to planes, and always have. How else do they keep smuggling drugs on aircraft? These guys could put explosives on the plane at any time.

For example, these guys in 2007 at Toronto Pearson, six years after 9/11... accused of smuggling 39 kg of ecstasy tablets and 3 kg of cocaine in aircraft cargo: http://www.newswire.ca/news-release...icking-through-pearson-airport-534004111.html


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## danenorris (Mar 25, 2017)

Hi there, I was surprised after reading this news.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Is flight security perfect? I am sure the answer is "no". Can it work? Absolutely. There hasn't been a successful terrorist attack on El Al or any flight leaving Israel since the 1960s. Does it help to reduce the probability of terrorist attack on flights and airports? Without a doubt. Soft targets with poor security are being attacked, like the airport in Belgium or the shoe bomber attempt. More desirable targets with good security are not attacked, like the Ben Gurion airport.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There are rumours that laptops will be banned from all European flights to the USA
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-laptops-in-all-cabins-of-flights-from-europe


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