# Filing for a deceased person



## Myquestion (Apr 25, 2018)

A taxpayer had been filing online for a long time. He deceased earlier this year. When his personal representative tried to help him to file his tax return this year, it failed and the reason was that the taxpayer had already passed away. Is this usually the case? And how should his personal representative proceed to file the deceased taxpayer's tax return without being able to file online? Thank you in advance.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

There are special requirements for a deceased person's return where Netfile is intended for run of the mill returns. I doubt one can use Netfile where the tax payer is deceased. https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag.../preparing-returns-deceased-persons-2016.html

The representative should be reviewing the link above, consulting whomever they need to and then filing a paper return. Not having filed online and not being allowed to makes no difference to the process that should be followed.


Cheers


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

I just used an accountant to file the "terminal return" for a deceased relative. They e-filed it, so it's not impossible to do. Actually, the accountant says there's an extra charge for paper filing.

See CRA... https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...ents/what-when-someone-died/final-return.html _"The final return can be E-filed or paper filed."_

You say "it failed", what failed? The tax preparation software, or the CRA processing the return?


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## Mike-RetireEarly (Feb 28, 2016)

CRA requires a copy of the will and the death certificate. These are usually mailed along with a paper copy of the final T1. Maybe if they are mailed to CRA before filing the T1 and you fill out the form to be the representative, then maybe you can Netfile the final return. 

It might also be because they are no longer considered to be the representative by CRA. Can they log onto CRA My Account as his rep? When my father passed away CRA removed me as his representative. I believe that CRA was notified of his death by Service Canada, I might have filled out a form there, can’t really remember now.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Myquestion said:


> A taxpayer had been filing online for a long time. He deceased earlier this year. When his personal representative tried to help him to file his tax return this year, it failed and the reason was that the taxpayer had already passed away. Is this usually the case? And how should his personal representative proceed to file the deceased taxpayer's tax return without being able to file online? Thank you in advance.


File a paper return as Eclectic already mentioned, and as Mike said, a copy of the Will and Statement of Death (not necessarily death certificate from Provincial Vital Statistics) is also required either before, or with the tax return, to ascertain the right person is filing the tax return. The executor of the estate is now responsible for the 2017 tax return (if it was not filed before death), and will be responsible for the Final T1 return for 2018 YTD, etc.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I filed both in hard copy. It was not a big deal. The bigger task was getting all the correct backup organized so that I could get them completed. Never heard a peep for CRA after filing on either one.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> ... The executor of the estate is now responsible for the 2017 tax return (if it was not filed before death), and will be responsible for the Final T1 return for 2018 YTD, etc.


Yes, I would assume "authorization of a representative" expires on death, the same as a POA.

PS. Here's the confirmation from Form 1013:
*Part 3 – Authorization expiry date
Enter an expiry date, if applicable. Your representative's access to your information will stay in effect until you or your representative cancel it, or we are notified of your death.*


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## Myquestion (Apr 25, 2018)

*deleted*


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## Myquestion (Apr 25, 2018)

The deceased person did not leave a will. If I have understood the instruction correctly, the child who handles the filing of the last tax return of the deceased person has to file a RC549E to request to become the 'executor' in order to manage the tax affairs of the deceased person. And this form is needed to be signed by all the deceased person's children. What about if one of them is in oversea?

Is there an easier way to handle the situation? The deceased person left no assets at all and I suppose there is no estate tax return to file since his estate will have no income at all.


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## Myquestion (Apr 25, 2018)

I remember I have read before that the person who handles the filing of the tax return of a deceased person is called 'personal representative'. But Form RC549E is for applying to become the 'executor'. So does the person who just wants to handle the filing of the last tax return of a deceased person really need to file Form RC549E to become the 'executor'?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

All that is news to me. Whether one has any assets or not, the estate still must be taken care of. Closure of bank accounts, cancelling of SIN and death certificate, DL, and the like. "Someone" has to become 'executor' and that is usually done via application to the court by an immediate family member such as spouse, sibling or an adult child.

How can an estate have no assets if the now deceased person was earning income and filing a tax return? Was that taxpayer paying any income tax? If tax is NOT owing, i.e. refund due, I'd simply ignore the filing of the tax return until such time an Executor is appointed. Even if taxes are due, I see no way for any person to legally represent the deceased through the filing of a tax return...since no one can get the signature of a deceased person.

Added: If you want some clarity, as a tax accountant friend what might be the appropriate course of action.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I was the executor in both instances. I did not file any special form. I simply filled out the tax form, as I recall I ticked the box to indicate deceased, and it was all over. I was never questioned about it. The one that had a refund came back with a cheque marked 'estate of xxx'. The one that had a balance owing was paid.

That was all. I also did the Probate. One of the requirements was to confirm, as executor, that I had paid all o/s taxes.


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

When a person dies their CRA online account is locked - likely notified by Service Canada (CPP / OAS )? and they are also tied into the division of vital statistics in each province once a death cert is issued, usually within days of death. You do not need access to the CRA account to Netfile and this does not prevent filing of tax returns by the representative. Presumably you will have copies of the deceased's previous filings. If not and you need CRA info you will have to contact them to get it. 

I assisted my brother after his wife died without a Will - Intestate. Her estate was very modest.

I obtained the instructions from the CRA website for filing a _Final_ return of a deceased person and followed the instructions. I completed her FINAL tax submission (Marked where her name goes ... First name: "The estate of --------" Surname: ------------ "Deceased" Later in the form it asks for the date of death. The form for the tax year had not yet been produced so I used the existing year T1 tax forms and just changed the Year where it says "T1 General" in the right hand corner. She had little income and only a couple of T-slips. I actually submitted it fairly quickly after her death without any T-slips as I was able to reconcile her known income from all sources based on her bank deposits. 

I drafted a short letter to CRA for my brother to sign explaining that she died intestate, that he was her husband and he signed the tax return - clearly noting that he was the deceased's husband. A copy of the death certificate was sent with the Tax return and letter to CRA . A Notice of Assessment was subsequently received from CRA acknowledging the return and that there was no refund or balance owing. This concluded the matter.

My brother was entitled to her CPP death benefit and again as she was intestate he applied for and received the amount after submitting the application and death certificate. The death benefit is taxable income and can either be reported by the beneficiary on their own return or on a separate T3. In this case because my brother gets GIS any additional income to him would decrease his GIS benefit so I filed it on a separate T3 and he paid the tax. A Notice of Assessment from CRA was received back acknowledging the T3, tax paid and the matter was concluded.

I expect with some deaths of people with low income/assets CRA may never get a final return and eventually just close the file.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is quite a bit different (and easier) to file on behalf of a deceased person if there is a surviving spouse that does the paper filing for the Final T1 return. It is more difficult for an 'arms length' person (who is a personal representative before death) to make that filing (in the case of the OP) because that personal representative has no legitimacy after death.

Still, what I would do in this case, is rather than try to Netfile, it would be best just to complete the 2017 return on paper and send it in with the former personal representative signing on behalf of the deceased. It will be another matter entirely to file 2018 the Final T1 return when it is appropriate to do so.

My bro and I did a 'fast' one when our mother died in April 2015. The 2014 tax return had been completed but not yet Netfiled. We quickly Netfiled on the exact day of her death... rather than post-death. Once CRA knows someone is deceased, it really is supposed to be the executor who does the filings. 

In the case Retiredguy speaks, it makes logical sense that if a spouse dies intestate without a Will, the surviving spouse would 'automatically' become the default executor anyway.... making everything legitimate.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

simple tax has a form which clearly denotes that the return is being filled out for a deceased person ... i always understood that the traditional tax preparer (assuming it wasn't the deceased) simply prepared the return fo the year of death .... the estate return and t1 etc are a different matter


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Re Netfiling a deceased's T1. 
While others say they were able to, my experience with TurboTax last month was that it would not allow me to file the 2017 final return of a Dec 2017 deceased. The CRA already had fact of their death so I believe that is why. 
It also would not let me NetFile the spouse's T1 2017 return. Again, I suspect it is not because they were the spouse but because they themselves became deceased in early 2018, and the CRA had that fact also. Easy enough to print and mail both with a covering letter though.

Becoming personal CRA rep to access their tax records online has not gone smoothly. One was approved, but not the other yet. It has been nearly 5 months, documents couriered twice, fax'd twice, wait 30 days each time for 'processing', etc. On this issue I have found the CRA to be a one-way black hole as to the status at their end.

Definately having co-executors complicates this. Consider carefully whether you need more than one executor, and keep them in-province if at all possible.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Re Netfiling a deceased's T1.
> While others say they were able to, my experience with TurboTax last month was that it would not allow me to file the 2017 final return of a Dec 2017 deceased. The CRA already had fact of their death so I believe that is why.
> It also would not let me NetFile the spouse's T1 2017 return. Again, I suspect it is not because they were the spouse but because they themselves became deceased in early 2018, and the CRA had that fact also. Easy enough to print and mail both with a covering letter though.
> 
> ...


and carefully consider your relationship with the co-executors in advance of any possible disagreements on the handling of estates, having been a co-executor twice in the last 10 years i saw first-hand many opportunities that could have become problematic


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Re Netfiling a deceased's T1.
> While others say they were able to, my experience with TurboTax last month was that it would not allow me to file the 2017 final return of a Dec 2017 deceased. The CRA already had fact of their death so I believe that is why.


Could be but I believe it is also because the person was deceased in 2017 and you had to put DOD on the return. Tax software will make it a paper filing. It is also called a Final T1 Return that is shuffled off to the Estate Dept of CRA.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

From https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/e-services-individuals/netfile-overview/eligibility.html

The following is a list of specific situations that prevent you from filing a tax return through the NETFILE service:
...
You are filing a tax return for an individual who died in 2017 or 2018....
I wasn't able to netfile the 2017 return for someone who died in 2018


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

so, to answer the op's original question, he can use of the online tax prep software and then simply print out the return, sign it as the preparer and mail it in


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

fatcat said:


> so, to answer the op's original question, he can use of the online tax prep software and then simply print out the return, sign it as the preparer and mail it in


Precisely what I did. It shouldn't be a big deal to print and mail.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I did it for my mother when my father passed away. I had POA for my mother but did not bother with any of that. I just did the return, on line, printed it out, marked it deceased. Got an assessment back, sent in the payment electronically. Never heard a word back. Did my mothers the same way a few years later. Only difference was refund vs payment due.

There is really no need to make this a complicated event if the return is not complicated.


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## RussT (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm a little late to the party, but thought I would share a situation I'm involved in:

The deceased person left a will naming his spouse as executor and sole beneficiary. The spouse is not well enough to handle the job of executor so I offered to help. She signed a form t1013 authorizing me as her representative. She also signed (as executor) another t1013 authorizing me as the deceased's representative. I also sent the will and the Death Certificate.

So now I have access to both taxpayers' accounts and can file returns on their behalf.


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## Mik'squestion (Apr 18, 2020)

ian said:


> I did it for my mother when my father passed away. I had POA for my mother but did not bother with any of that. I just did the return, on line, printed it out, marked it deceased. Got an assessment back, sent in the payment electronically. Never heard a word back. Did my mothers the same way a few years later. Only difference was refund vs payment due.
> 
> There is really no need to make this a complicated event if the return is not complicated.


Hi So did you signed the mother final return as POA? I have similar situation: my mother died without a will and I am her POA and doing the final return. My question is: can I still sign her return as POA and send to CRA?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mik'squestion said:


> Hi So did you signed the mother final return as POA? I have similar situation: my mother died without a will and I am her POA and doing the final return. My question is: can I still sign her return as POA and send to CRA?


I doubt it as a POA expires at the moment of death so that is NOT the right individual. It needs to be the person who the Court assigns to be Executor of the Estate. The Executor would sign it as 'Executor of the Estate of Ms CCCC DDDD'

Look up the relevant documentation for the province of the deceased to see how one goes about being appointed Executor of the estate.


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## Mik'squestion (Apr 18, 2020)

fatcat said:


> so, to answer the op's original question, he can use of the online tax prep software and then simply print out the return, sign it as the preparer and mail it in


I have similar situation: my mother died without a will and very low asset and I am her POA and doing the final return. My question is: can I still sign her return as POA and mail it in? there are no executor


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## Mik'squestion (Apr 18, 2020)

AltaRed said:


> I doubt it as a POA expires at the moment of death so that is NOT the right individual. It needs to be the person who the Court assigns to be Executor of the Estate. The Executor would sign it as 'Executor of the Estate of Ms CCCC DDDD'
> 
> Look up the relevant documentation for the province of the deceased to see how one goes about being appointed Executor of the estate.


I understand this but she has no estate and it will be very difficult and expensive to assign Executor due to the fact that her children's live oversees with not known address and CRA want to fill and sign the form by all children's, there should be some different way to do the final tax.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Beyond my pay grade but I would suggest you apply as Legal Representative for the tax return via form RC552 along with a letter of explanation saying you were formerly her POA and there is no Will and there is no one else in Canada to complete the paperwork.

If a tax return is due now, then maybe file the tax return assuming you are already her LR and a copy of the Statement of Death at the same time you file the RC552 in the same envelope, on the premise CRA will have no choice but to accept you as the Legal Representative anyway. Ultimately, CRA just wants to tick off the boxes from their end and they likely don't care as long as the taxes are paid and the tax file can ultimately be closed. I am sure they see a lot of very messy unconventional files every week of every year.

You didn't say when your mother died. If she died in 2019 then the Final T1 is due now. If she died in 2020, then she will have both a 2019 T1 Return plus a 2020 Final T1 return. In this latter case, I would simply Netfile the 2019 tax return on her behalf (as if she was still alive - because she was alive on Dec 31 ,2019) and deal with the 2020 Final T1 Return later per above.

You mentioned once that she had 'low assets' and then mentioned 'no assets'. There is a difference in definition but I am guessing they could fall below the amount needed for probating her estate for the province of death, but if not, then the estate must be probated intestate.


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## Mik'squestion (Apr 18, 2020)

Thank you. My mother died in 2019. There are at least 2 versions of the form RC552 in CRA website: RC552 E (17) and RC552 E (19). which one I should use, these forms are different, I believe it should be RC552 E (19) because it new form, and as I mention not all children's can sign RC552 form, also please let me know who should sign the T1 form - all requestors in RC552 or just one?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

When I review RC552 E (19) I would fill it out as a single requestor, ignoring any additional requestors (since they are not in Canada anyway), and I would sign the Final T1 Return as 'Mik on behalf of the Estate of XXXX' 

If your mother's estate is as simple as you suggest, CRA is not going to care as long as the tax file is taken care of. The message at the top of the form


> Complete this form if you want to be recognized as the person who will manage the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) tax matters for a person who died without a valid last will and testament.


 kind of reinforces CRA won't give a shite as long as tax filings are done.


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