# Who uses an advisor?



## Kalergie (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi.

I'm a DIY guy in most things. When I have an idea and I am thrilled about it, I read everything about it in order to learn how to be really good in it. I like to plan. 
After having done endless research and planning of my personal portfolio, I am at a point of doubt. I feel like I am standing on the metaphorical diving board, ready to jump but I am afraid to go ahead and leap. 

Now that I am a bit in doubt, it would be nice to have someone review my plan and see if it makes sense. 

I am curious, who uses an advisor here? Do you use an advisor to actively manage your portfolio or just for advise on DIY investing? Do you know of any advisor who is paid on a fee basis or even a "per meeting" basis. I personally dont like the fact that an advisor is entitled to a certain % of my portfolio. What does it matter if I have a million dollar portfolio or not. HIS time should be worth the same no matter the size of the portfolio. 

What do you think?
Thank you.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I think I am in the minority here, and I do use an advisor for the largest and most conservative part of my portfolio. He actively manages and monitors for me on my rrsp. I also ask him for advice on the portion I do myself.

I do pay a mer, and I am okay with that. I do call him rather frequently, so it's not the once a year call for thousands of dollars. I do this because I have been with him for years, I know I can be too much of a risk taker, actually somewhat reckless at times, so he balances me out. I also have him do a lot of my research for me. 

I know there are many advisors that charge on a pure visit.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Don't use an advisor. Just a trusted tax savvy accountant.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I don't. There's too much conflict of interest with the way most advisers are compensated which encourages a strong bias towards high MER products or the churning of accounts. If I was so inclined I would use a fee-based adviser. But considering I've set up my registered accounts as mostly passive and I enjoy picking stocks in my trading account (and think I'm doing a pretty good job), I have no need for an adviser.


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## Miser (Apr 24, 2011)

Spidey said:


> I don't. There's too much conflict of interest with the way most advisers are compensated which encourages a strong bias towards high MER products or the churning of accounts. *If I was so inclined I would use a fee-based adviser. * But considering I've set up my registered accounts as mostly passive and I enjoy picking stocks in my trading account (and think I'm doing a pretty good job), I have no need for an adviser.


Only way to go if you decide that.
Flat fee based and get a good one.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)




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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I believe that most DIY investors have two potential routes to go. Either they go the 'Couch Potato' route and utilize the model portfolios at www.canadiancouchpotato.com or they construct a portfolio of 15 or so good dividend paying stocks with a history of increasing those dividends over time. Neither of these should require the services of even a fee-only advisor unless you use one to establish your initial asset allocation which will be largely responsible for your long term results. Keep your fees as 'little' as possible!!


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

*No advisors for me.*

I sold my first house in 1979, which left me with money to invest, so I opened my first investment account with Richardson Greenshields. The bimbo broker they gave me churned my account for commissions, and lost me money ever time she phoned me. When TD bank started their GreenLine Investor Service (GLIS) around 1981, I was probably their first customer! My experience with a full service broker cost me money, but it was money well spent because it taught me a valuable lesson. Never trust anyone but yourself with your money! If you make a bad decision, then it hurts, but you at least learn from the experience. If you lose money based on someone else's recommendation, then it hurts twice as much. 

So, no I do not have a financial advisor. BTW I have $1.5 million invested, and quit work at 55, so I think I've done OK without any help, but only you can say what's right for you.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We fired our adviser 4 years ago and best decision we did , my husband and I have very high $xxx,xxx mutual funds and stocks between us .I probably read 20 hours a week on investment stuff plus watch 2-3 hours a day of business news.I do spend money on my tax accountant and well worth what she cost us.


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## somecanuck (Dec 23, 2011)

We did use a financial advisor. It got us into investing, but at a high cost. Now I'm staring at DSCs.


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## kyboch (Dec 23, 2011)

Coincidentally, I just saw a fee only adviser 2 days ago. He charges [email protected] These are his credentials BBA, CFP, R.F.P. It was money well spent for me. I'm about to embark on a passive ETF based investment plan that I've concocted through reading my brains out over the last 4 month or so. There is a big difference however between reading books and blogs etc. and actually firing your adviser, selling the mutual fund that I have, opening a brokerage account and pulling the trigger on 400,000 worth of ETFS! So I decided to run it by a pro. It took less than an hour and cost me 210 bucks. It was the best thing I ever did!

Seeing the fee only adviser was awesome for my self confidence. I have 8-9 etfs picked out. His advice was basically "What are you waiting for?" He told me this is exactly what he does for his clients. His advice was for a 45-55 bond to stock allocation (I'm 54) with at least 15% in emerging markets, with no more than 10 etfs. But the biggest thing by far is just the math between a 2.29% MER on the MF and the.32% weighted MER on the ETFs. Active vs passive according to him is a no brainer. Passive outperforms over the long haul period.

I mean even though the logic of doing this is apparent, I've been walking around in a quandary about actually doing it. It's a big step going from a bury your head in the sand kind of a guy to a DIY! But after my meeting I have completely made up my mind and feel extremely confident in what I'm about to do. The first thing the guy said was that NO ONE can control the markets but the 2 things you can control are your costs and your asset mix. Couldn't agree more! By doing this I am not guaranteed of any return from the markets but I can guarantee I will gain 2% of my money by lowering my costs.

If I were you I would absolutely see a fee-only adviser. He may give you that little bit of added confidence to pull the trigger.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Sounds like you came across a good fee-only advisor there kyboch. Hopefully the advice you received would have been the same if you hadn't come to them already committed to passive investing. Money well spent if it gets you to take the leap though and I think exactly the kind of financial advisor we can hope will become more and more prevalent. Good luck with the new portfolio, sounds like a winner.


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## doc987 (Nov 23, 2011)

I think there are two ways of looking at paying an adisor.

1) You can pay someone to "get you started" or "set you on the right path" when you're starting out. This will save you making the typical mistakes we've all made in the early stages of managing money. It also will save you some time you would have spent researching.
2) Secondly, once you're established, paying someone to pick your stocks....well that is like paying someone to pick your lottery numbers!!


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## BRS9 (Feb 22, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> I think I am in the minority here, and I do use an advisor for the largest and most conservative part of my portfolio. He actively manages and monitors for me on my rrsp. I also ask him for advice on the portion I do myself.
> 
> I do pay a mer, and I am okay with that. I do call him rather frequently, so it's not the once a year call for thousands of dollars. I do this because I have been with him for years, I know I can be too much of a risk taker, actually somewhat reckless at times, so he balances me out. I also have him do a lot of my research for me.
> 
> I know there are many advisors that charge on a pure visit.



Sounds exactly like me. I have a very wise, conservative and experienced advisor who balances me out. We sit down a couple times a year so I can ***** about his boring returns and he can lecture me about wildly spec'ing on options and other things. 

He manages a large portfolio for me, so the fees are justified with all the great rounds of golf and with having someone I can call/email/text 24/7 about anything financial. Wouldn't consider it if he didn't have the credentials he does. His assistant is also a CGA so I have that to leverage as well. 

Every millionaire I know has all sorts of advisors to work with their lawyers and accountants. Everyone needs a team.

...Having said all that - I have been moving some assets out, and will be asking about some sort of fee-based retainer hybrid solution instead of commish in the near future. So that it's fair and that the relationship is in both our interest.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

BRS9 said:


> Every millionaire I know has all sorts of advisors to work with their lawyers and accountants. Everyone needs a team.


Really? 'Every millionaire you know...' Some of the millionaires I know have advisors, some don't, by the sounds of it, many of the millionaires on CMF don't and in reading 'The Millionaire Next Door' it seems like many millionaires in the U.S. don't have advisors. 

Certainly one can become a millionaire quite nicely without a financial advisor and some experts would contend that one can do it quicker without the 1-3% or more drag having an advisor entails.


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## Dmacneil (Jan 11, 2012)

I don't use an advisor. 

"Advisors" associated with financial institutions just push their own products. Stay away.

Commission based ones charge you a rate that can seem unreasonable. Im investing my nest egg and I'm predominantly risk-averse. I don't like payment a high commission for someone to tell me to buy government bonds. The reality is that low-risk asset classes aren't a problem for me to decide on... it the limited part of my portfolio that is typically equity-based and higher risk. That segment has lots of different options... but I'm in couch potato camp - so why pay MER when you inherently don't believe that active management can predict the market anyway.

Quite frankly.. I think reading communities like this give me everything I need to know. The vast majority of retail investors pick from a limited pool of funds and ETFs anyhow. I can't find a good reason to believe that I need to invest in something special beyond that.


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## Kalergie (Jan 7, 2011)

Great discussion. Thanks for all your contributions. I agree that reading books and being a part of this community help a lot. However, I aslo agree that a good fee based advisor can help by doing a sort of "sanity" check on your plans. I would be really interested in meeting an advisor that is paid per meeting or hour. Like a tax consultant. I live in Toronto. Can someone recommend an advisor?


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## susan (Mar 19, 2012)

Kyboch, where do you live? I would really appreciate it if you emailed me the name of your advisor. This is exactly the service I`m looking for.






kyboch said:


> Coincidentally, I just saw a fee only adviser 2 days ago. He charges [email protected] These are his credentials BBA, CFP, R.F.P. It was money well spent for me. I'm about to embark on a passive ETF based investment plan that I've concocted through reading my brains out over the last 4 month or so. There is a big difference however between reading books and blogs etc. and actually firing your adviser, selling the mutual fund that I have, opening a brokerage account and pulling the trigger on 400,000 worth of ETFS! So I decided to run it by a pro. It took less than an hour and cost me 210 bucks. It was the best thing I ever did!
> 
> Seeing the fee only adviser was awesome for my self confidence. I have 8-9 etfs picked out. His advice was basically "What are you waiting for?" He told me this is exactly what he does for his clients. His advice was for a 45-55 bond to stock allocation (I'm 54) with at least 15% in emerging markets, with no more than 10 etfs. But the biggest thing by far is just the math between a 2.29% MER on the MF and the.32% weighted MER on the ETFs. Active vs passive according to him is a no brainer. Passive outperforms over the long haul period.
> 
> ...


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## Paul75 (Dec 22, 2011)

Forex traders use advisor for automated forex trading. There are number of advisor and each is claimed the best for forex trading. But it is not true.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kyboch i remember your story about the advisor when you first posted it & i remember thinking what a delightful story it was. Because your advisor didn't really have to do a ton of work. Because you'd done it all.

you had already built your own plan after "reading your brains out" & i suspect it was an excellent one. Once he examined its nature, all he had to do was tell you Go For It.

the fact that his bill was so reasonable proves how valuable the whole exercise was. For you, it was the sailing permit. The champagne bottle cracked over the bow of the new ship as she slips into the water for her maiden voyage. For him, it was probably the pleasure of meeting a client so well-prepared & so enthusiastic.

staying in touch with someone like that, going back every few years as portfolios sail into unknown waters, knowing when to call in a specialized navigator, are excellent options imho. Congratulations, you seem to have found the captain's approach.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

No advisor for me but I wouldn't be typical. My education (CA, MBA, CFA) and work experience are perfect for self managing my portfolios (8 figures) of dividend payors. I guess some would say I have a fool for a client. Being in total control of your finances is very liberating though. Self education is key.


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

I am actually looking for an advisor for some family with significant holdings. Business owners who sold the businesses so have complex corporate and personal structures and estate needs and a complex financial plan to power all that.

Anyone know where I could start to find a fee-only planner in Halifax?

As an aside - are there any professional investment managers out there who would run a portfolio and use options to control risk? I am not aware of any advisors or financial managers who can do things like use options - does anyone know what firms might be able to do something like this for a 7 figure portfolio?


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## Patience (Mar 8, 2012)

Lephturn said:


> Anyone know where I could start to find a fee-only planner in Halifax?


You could try using the CFP search tool at: https://www.fpsc.ca/find-cfp

At least it would tell you local financial planners with the Certified Financial Planner credential. 


To contribute to this thread, I use a financial planner spordically. We talk every few years, and he reviews a plan that I developed. We talk about a couple things, and he might point me in areas to do more research. He mentions some things I just don't know about or haven't thought about. Valuable relationship imo, considering he only manages a small portion of my overall portfolio.

I also have a tax accountant who helps me through my corporate and personal tax planning.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lephturn perhaps you might wish to consider the discretionary managers, ie the investment counsel. They have undergone a recent name change & are now called portfolio managers. As you know, they generally look for 1-2M & up.

i'm not aware of any who are members of the investment counsel association who are HQ'd in halifax. Of course you will find that all the large toronto firms do have representatives in halifax, but their actual portfolio decisions will be made in toronto, ie local personnel will basically be glorified sales personnel.

however, there are 3 firms HQ'd in halifax that are not, or at least not yet, members of the investment counsel association, which you or your family might want to look into. In no particular order, they are Beacon Securities, Icecap Asset Management & Leeside Capital.

another group to consider is a designation of stockbroker called a portfolio manager. They are supposed to be the top of the line. I would imagine the investment dealers' association can help you find those who hold this designation who are practicing in the halifax area. I'm fairly sure there must be several, at different brokerage houses.

moving on to options, i notice it has become fashionable for investment counsel/discretionary portfolio managers to say that, yes indeedy, their houses now offer expertise in risk management using options & other strategies.

like you, they've discovered that collared hi-dividend stocks offer risk-free returns that are far better than t-bills. But this is only a flavour of the times, imho. And it does seem to me that the personnel they've hired for options management are academic graduates with theoretical knowledge but not a whole lot of practical experience. Leph i've glimpsed fragments of your work here in cmf forum. Quite frankly i imagine you probably manage better than these guys.

another concern i'd have is that "options management" usually means higher fees.

if i had to give up my portfolio to anybody, the sad truth is that i would not expect to find a single professional who can do what i can do in options *. I would not dream of signing over discretionary authority to any portfolio manager for options management.

for my will - in case i should die in an accident - i have an investment counsel chosen & named, because my children will not be able to take over an inheritance for some years yet. This investment counsel does not do options. They understand the complexities very well & their decision so far is to not get involved rather than make mistakes.

* Addition: by this i mean to say that derivative traders who are really good are all out working on bank treasury floors or else trading energy futures for hydro quebec, etc etc. The ones left working for the retail trade will, almost by definition, not be as good. So those are the ones i would worry about consigning my portfolio to.


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## kyboch (Dec 23, 2011)

Haha humble, you are hilarious man! Love your writing style and the way you express yourself, very unique. Yeah it has worked out great so far. I am fully invested in index ETFs including a couple of dividend ones (ZDV and CDZ) along with XIC, VUS, ZRE, XBB, XSB, XRB and CHB. I stayed out of EAFE and emerging markets because I just didn't feel comfortable there. That may turn out to be a mistake but no point putting your money somewhere that makes you nervous. The adviser was great, very knowledgeable and a cool dude to boot. I like my asset allocation (45% stocks, 45% bonds, 10% REITS) and am thrilled with the low MERs. Much better than the lousy MF I was in. 
I am still toying with selling the CDZ and ZDV and just buying single stocks but I just don't feel that I am informed enough or wily enough for that just yet although I am surely tempted! I'll leave that up to the experts such as yourself and Argonaut. Hope things are going well with you humble, take er easy bud, cheers to all.


humble_pie said:


> kyboch i remember your story about the advisor when you first posted it & i remember thinking what a delightful story it was. Because your advisor didn't really have to do a ton of work. Because you'd done it all.
> 
> you had already built your own plan after "reading your brains out" & i suspect it was an excellent one. Once he examined its nature, all he had to do was tell you Go For It.
> 
> ...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ky, the strength of your portfolio as i see it is that you have built a broad powerful base & you have made zero mistakes. This does not mean that portf will not go down; but it should always be alright even in adversity.

come join us in the wily bye-and-bye when you are ready ...


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks for your help humblepie - I was hoping I'd hear from you. 

If it was my $ I'd be doing it myself but it's not - and there are lots of additional complex issues like estate planning and corporate executor services that are part of the current plans/package. But this gives me a few avenues to explore and some calls to make which is exactly what I was hoping for - so thank you again.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lephturn i'm not one to hire a squadron of barristers solicitors CAs planners & other financial professionals ...

but halifax is a lucky setting imho. A quintessentially old maritime city with the kind of outward-bound blue-blooded links primed to serve the equally old bluenose families who dwell there. Ideally one would look for referrals towards 1 or 2 professionals with expertise in your family's planning needs, would one not. Chartered accountants, perhaps.


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