# I want to talk you out of buying a 2500 Ram ..



## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi. Im pretty mad with chrysler and have a complaint in with transport canada pertaining too my 06 ram 2500 ..

Im venting here and doing my part to inform dodge 2500 Ram owners, 3rd gen and 4rth gen owners of a safety defect built into the stearing componats on thease trucks.

Backing up in my drive way, I lost my right tie rod (draglink) with a slight turn of the steering wheel, thier was a loud clunk!!

Under neath my truck, the right drag link (tie rod ) was detatched from the right hub, total lose of stearing.

Booth front wheels were pointing away from each othier!!

Chrysler has recalled thease trucks, but recall is Vin specfic, My truck is not listed.

Oem stearing componants on dodge trucks, esp drag links do not have lock nuts or cottor pins as a back up means of security to the hubs, Draglinks are a compresson fit that do require grease to lubercate the ball socket that holds the stearing drag link to the hub.

After market parts do have a lock nut and cotter pin, where as dodge relies on compression to hold it all togethier!!

From 06 to 12, dodge has not really changed thier drag links ( thier is a revised drag link design that delt with death wobble ) thier still a compression fit!

Now I had no indication of stearing concerns, no warning, no play in the stearing,no vibrations, nothing.

I can tell you I was driving on the high way at 110 km for a hour before lossing my tie rod.

Most reports of this happening tend to be a low speed were drag is incured on the stearing wheels, but thats not at all safe!!

So 6 years, 121,000 km, average use. 15% of km my be off road, ie gravel roads, ruted roads, ect.

2500 hemi reg cab 4wd 2006.

I have pics to prove my concern.

Trouble free ownership proir to this.

Thanks.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

Glad you weren't hurt. 
typical "big 3" attitude towards the customer. Ford is no better. GM I dunno. 
Instead of service, they'll spend your tie rod money on advertising how "tough" their trucks are.
It's a real "screw 'em and run" industry for NA automakers. 

coworker has a 2001 (I think) Toyota Tacoma 4WD with high km on it (250K+). He took it to Toyota recently for front struts. The frame is rotten. 
He is getting a new frame. period. And anything that doesn't survive the swap, like fuel lines, brake lines etc...all replaced with brand new parts. 
They cover a rental car too for the time in the shop.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Yeah I think Chrysler factor tie rods must be really cheap. I recently learned that the ones on my 2008 Chrysler were worn out after just $55K!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gt45 said:


> Hi. Im pretty mad with chrysler and have a complaint in with transport canada pertaining too my 06 ram 2500 ..
> 
> Oem stearing componants on dodge trucks, esp drag links do not have lock nuts or cottor pins as a back up means of security to the hubs, Draglinks are a compresson fit that do require grease to lubercate the ball socket that holds the stearing drag link to the hub.


Ok, you mentioned 4x4, and mine is s 98 2WD dakota..but are you talking about the castellated nut that holds the tie rod end to the
steering knuckle which (has a cotter pin on mine) is part of the hub? 



> After market parts do have a lock nut and cotter pin, where as dodge relies on compression to hold it all together!!


That is bad engineering, similar to their ball joints which cannot be greased and wear out prematurely on the Dakota/Durangos and
can cause the front wheel to fall off at speed, causing a serious accident.
I replaced all 4 of mine last year at considerable expense with aftermarket ball joints.



> From 06 to 12, dodge has not really changed thier drag links ( thier is a revised drag link design that delt with death wobble ) thier still a compression fit!





> Now I had no indication of stearing concerns, no warning, no play in the stearing,no vibrations, nothing.
> I can tell you I was driving on the high way at 110 km for a hour before lossing my tie rod.


Those are press on taper fit, so you probably wouldn't get a warning until it popped out.
You were very lucky. I had complete wheel bearing failure (wheel was very loose) as I came off a expressway.
Thankfully it was a 2km limp home for me. After that and my left front caliper seizing TWICE on me in
the same year, I have CAA now. Last year, my front to back brake line sprung a leak just as I came off the expressway
at high speed onto a exit ramp..hit the brake pedal and the ABS and brake light came on! Barely had enough brake
left on the front to avoid a rear ender. Even though the master cylinder is dual and supposed to be separate, the brake
fluid got dumped in the front as well as the proportioning valve got either stuck or malfunctioned at the same time.
The master cylinder was completely empty!



> So 6 years, 121,000 km, average use. 15% of km my be off road, ie gravel roads, ruted roads, ect.
> 2500 hemi reg cab 4wd 2006.


Being a first time Mopar owner, I sympathize with you. I will NEVER buy another Dodge product again, but I've
been lucky with my failures so far..no accidents due to brake or suspension or steering in 107,000km.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> Being a first time Mopar owner, I sympathize with you. I will NEVER buy another Dodge product again, but I've
> been lucky with my failures so far..no accidents due to brake or suspension or steering in 107,000km.


Buying Dodge was mistake number one, for both of you.

However, I am sorry to hear what has happened.

I hope you get some type of compensation, gt45.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Yes, it may have been a mistake. I was wanting a silverado, but the GM dealer in my part of town was a bit too greedy at the time. After I bought the Dodge, I found out that I could have bought a Ford F150 at a discount, because of the deal Ford had with Nortel at the time.
Although mine has survived 14 years, the bumpers are all rusting out...recycled chinese metal, rusting from the inside. 

However, in 14 years of ownership, it's been about the last 5 years that I've started to have rusting and wearout problems, so I suppose if I take my purchase price and the repairs and average them out...its about $2500 a year in depreciation and repairs.
Still a lot of money and it's a real gas guzzler too.


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

After market parts that were installed in my truck have grease fittings, I made a point of having upper and lower ball joints, booth sides, all drag link componants and two front universal joints with grease fittings. Factery installed parts for dodge, Gm and ford are non servicable, this a wave of the future.

CTD trucks have the same supension and stearing as my hemi powerd truck, so be ware when your backing up your trailer at the camp site, that your drag link may fall off.

All the brands are issue prone, but I don't expect tie rods to fall off. Ironic that a dodge dealer had the nerve to tell me this happens all the time on solid axle dodges ...

AS for compensation, I can do more convincing truck buyers of the truth on dodge products and its money in my bank account as I will never buy Dodge.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I ONLY OWNED dodge trucks since 1974. The last 2 were 3/4 ton diesels...one had almost 800k on it ...other has almost 400k.


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thiers allways going to be one diamond or two diamonds in the rough that are great units, no matter the make, my issue is majority of thease 2500 Rams are going to have stearing componants fail.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gt45 said:


> After market parts that were installed in my truck have grease fittings, I made a point of having upper and lower ball joints, booth sides, all drag link componants and two front universal joints with grease fittings. Factery installed parts for dodge, Gm and ford are non servicable, *this a wave of the future.*


It's been around for a few years. Chrysler over-engineers their new trucks with all sorts of electronic modules communicating to each
other on specific protocol twisted pair serial links. If there is a problem with them, the truck goes into "limp mode" and won't go
above 2nd gear. You can't troubleshoot the bus information with a handheld code reader, so you have to take it to a dealership because
most independents don't have the expensive computerized test equipment for Chrysler.

They WANT the mechanical parts to last at least until the warranty is over,after that they expect that the front end suspension wears
out so you can either trade it in on a new model or face the high repair costs at the stealerships..or go to an independent.
mine didn't have too many grease fittings (just a couple on the center link). 




> CTD trucks have the same supension and stearing as my hemi powerd truck, so be ware when your backing up your trailer at the camp site, that your drag link may fall off.


I'll have mine checked out, but you have a 4x4 which has a lot more complexity in the steering parts than a 2WD. 



> All the brands are issue prone, but I don't expect tie rods to fall off. Ironic that a dodge dealer had the nerve to tell me this happens all the time on solid axle dodges ...


Nice of the dealer to warn you after the fact! If they knew about it, why didn't the dealer call you and ask you to bring it
in to be checked at least..or even fixed? 



> AS for compensation, I can do more convincing truck buyers of the truth on dodge products and its money in my bank account as I will never buy Dodge.


You were lucky it didn't happen on the highway..had you hit a deep pot hole (on the highway in the springtime, before they got around to
fixing them, the tie rod would have dropped off and you may have lost steering and crashed in the ditch as the truck could have gone
either way...crossed the center line, rolled, or even hit another vehicle, if you were really unlucky.

The bean counters at Chrysler Canada wouldn't even hear about the real cause of your accident, they would keep selling them with that
defective nut fastener.

You should check with Lemon Aid to see if there is a secret recall on those.


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thier is no nut fastner on oem equiped 06 ram 2500, only bolt is at the top of the hub, bottom is a compresssed fit, booth right and left side I have pics on my phone, I will post when I use my BB.

Ironic that dodge/chrysler/fait wants to kill off thier owner's.
Un happy people don't buy your product.

Truck has been repaired for a small investement + towing fees and I now feel safe driving with new front suspension, stearing componants.

I can't watch or listen to any dodge hyped up adds on TV or the radio with out expressing my rage I don't have the need to want to buy new and yet its no good with a drag link hanging off the right hub.

I own a 2nd car, a awsome 2011 Hyundia Elantra touring and the Ram is baicsly used for the truck stuff in my life, I really did not want to incur a loss selling a paid for truck, now Im buying it all over again.

My vin is not apart of Chrysler Canada's recall program.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

new slogan for Dodge:
"If you can't Dodge it (because your tie rod fell off), Ram it"


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> new slogan for Dodge:
> "If you can't Dodge it (because your tie rod fell off), Ram it"


The current TV ad is "Guts, Glory, Ram"...

If gt45's tie rod had come loose on the highway...he might have experienced some glory, hopefully no injuries (guts) as his Ram rammed into something.

Of course, if he used if off road (it's a 4x4), then chances are he hit some serious bumps or potholes on the trails that may have loosened that nut.
Glad he replaced all the critical parts with good aftermarket parts. Now his heavy duty Ram 2500 4x4 should in more trustworthy shape.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gt45 said:


> Ironic that dodge/chrysler/*fait *wants to kill off thier owner's.


Fait? Did you mean Fiat? Ever since Dalmer teamed up with Chrysler, their products seem to have more problems.

They don't care, you would be just another highway statistic to them.
If safety was their foremost concern, they would be putting on better parts that have cotter pins and parts that can be greased.
But on the Dodge assembly line (mine was made in Michigan) the cost of the cotter pin (.00002) cents and the cost of installing it (5secs) shaves hundreds of thousands off their bottom line. 

They just put on whatever cheap parts will last until the warranty period ends, (and your 06 is well past the warranty period)..just like some of us...so they leave it up to you and your insurance company to deal with the aftermath. 

If you used your 4x4 off road..that can be classified as "abuse", since the truck is intended to look good in your driveway as you wash it to impress the neighbors.:biggrin:



> Unhappy people don't buy your product.


Dodge says "Get over it..at least it fell apart in your driveway and you (and it) are still in one piece. That is design intent. :biggrin:



> Truck has been repaired for a small investement + towing fees and I now feel safe driving with new front suspension, stearing componants.


If you feel confident driving it now, that is money well spent. 


> I can't watch or listen to any dodge hyped up adds on TV or the radio with out expressing my rage I don't have the need to want to buy new and yet its no good with a drag link hanging off the right hub.


"GUTS..GLORY..RAM! Ram trucks are carefully engineered to get you through anything you need to carry or any terrain.
Dump a ton of bricks inn the box, run it on rough muddy roads..it can take it...just wash it"



> My vin is not apart of Chrysler Canada's recall program.


Chrysler has determined then that your truck doesn't have the problem, therefore it obviously had to be the way you used it..or someone loosened the nut on you?.:biggrin:

But did you experience the "death wobble" on yours? Any Ram 2500 4x4 between 03 and 08 could possibly have
this and the consequences if experienced would not be very pretty.

Check this out..
http://klmperformance.com/mopar/mopar-dodge-ram-steering-upgrade-kit.html


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

No death wobble for me, still no issues with death wobble, Dodge came up with a new drag link up grade that was supossed to fix death wobble, I thought I was going to be trobule free owith stearing issues, the ball joints were starting to wear out, so when the stearing lost direction, I went for the full meal deal with replacement parts. 

My suspension is stock ( no lift ki or leveling kits ) and is identical to the mighty power wagon ( no 456 gears, no winch, no sway Bar link disconect, or 285 70 17 tires) so some where down the trail or wall mart parking lot expect the drag link to fall off.!!!!

I do like the hemi and I factery orderd this truck with a 6sp man, its a good old reg cab with a 8 foot box , factery order, built for work I no longer do.

Dodge trucks also have issues with the drivers seat foam and fabric wearing down, metal burs in the seat frame wear down the foam and fabric.

I still like my truck, its just the dodge aspects of it really make me want to warn poeple to shy away from this brand ...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Well, at least you are still truckin' and in good health to talk about it, so on the scale of things, it's not so bad after all. The link decided to fall apart on your driveway, so perhaps that St. Christopher medal hanging off the mirror in your cab took care of you....uh!..you do have a St. Christopher medal don't you?:biggrin:

Even though, mine has had almost complete brake failure due to the back line rotting out, , brake rotors seizing, bearing failures, it always managed to either crawl home or crawl to the nearest garage to get it fixed. I'm a senior advisor on the Dakota forum, because of the experiences with mine. 

I still like my truck and at this point can't afford another vehicle..and those old 318's (5.2L) last practically forever even if they are gas guzzlers in the city.
Overall, it hasn't been a bad experience, but I've never had steering issues with it and changed out all the ball joints after finding one loose
last year. No seat issues with mine,. I expect it will last me as long as I want it to last... at this point as the repairs I spent on it last year
are probably worth more than a 14 year old truck.


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## Kim (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow, I had been holding off reading this thread but am glad I did. We own a farm and haul horses steady so we own 2! Dodge 3500 one tonne duallies. My truck is an 04 with 350 000+ kms. Last fall as I was doing 115km on hwy 43 I hit a pothole and my tie rod broke. Talk about an interesting next 20 seconds.....thankfully it turned out OK. I wasn't hauling at the time and managed to brake / steer? the truck off the road ... which is pretty much where it wanted to go anyway. I thought I was alone in having this happen. I never mentioned it to Dodge as I knew they would not care. Thanks for posting.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Kim said:


> Wow, I had been holding off reading this thread but am glad I did. We own a farm and haul horses steady so we own 2! Dodge 3500 one tonne duallies. My truck is an 04 with 350 000+ kms. Last fall as I was doing 115km on hwy 43 I hit a pothole and my tie rod broke. Talk about an interesting next 20 seconds.....thankfully it turned out OK. I wasn't hauling at the time and managed to brake / steer? the truck off the road ... which is pretty much where it wanted to go anyway. I thought I was alone in having this happen. I never mentioned it to Dodge as I knew they would not care. Thanks for posting.


This appears to be a design problem with poor quality oem parts with the 2500/3500 4x4s for some model years. I can picture the anxiety of hitting a pothole and having the front wheel break off because the oem ball joints ("lifetime lubrication") wore out, and break when subjected to stress like hitting a deep pothole..there is a lot of weight the front suspension is carrying and the tie rod seems to be a critical area.

From the Chrysler RAM 2500 recall...


> BECAUSE THE LEFT TIE ROD BALL STUD MAY FRACTURE. *THIS CONDITION TENDS TO OCCUR DURING LOW SPEED PARKING LOT TYPE MANEUVERS WHEN THE CUSTOMER IS MAKING A TIGHT TURN*. ADDITIONALLY, MODEL YEAR 2003-2008 DODGE RAM 2500/3500 VEHICLES MAY HAVE RECEIVED THE AFFECTED TIE ROD ASSEMBLY AS A REPLACEMENT PART DURING NORMAL SERVICE.
> 
> Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2009/dodge/ram_2500/recalls/#ixzz1tLHhk3xh
> 
> ...


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

My right tie rod (drag link) is the one that came off, not the left as per chryslers recall.

My part did not fracture, it just popped off I should no in 6 weeks the resaults of transport canadas investagation as I forwarded the drag link assenly and ball socket to them.


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

One more item, I did get a recall letter pertaining to extending the warrenty on my signal light multi function switch, when you signal, tail lights are opposit of what the dash signal lights show, I don't have this issue.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gt45 said:


> One more item, I did get a recall letter pertaining to extending the warrenty on my signal light multi function switch, when you signal, tail lights are opposit of what the dash signal lights show, I don't have this issue.


I think this is the wrong forum for discussing this. Try the Dodge Ram forum.


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## gt45 (Feb 6, 2012)

Update... Transport Canada looked into my complaint and determined the ball socket joint on the right hub failed due to lack of maintance, ie grease, I don't agree with this but the matter is out of my hands.


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