# GE-57,000 page tax return



## sags (May 15, 2010)

GE filed their US income tax return electronically, and it is good thing they did. It was the equivalent of 57,000 pages long (it would amount to a pile of paper 19 feet high), and utilized loopholes in the US tax code to reduce their tax on 14 Billion profit to zero.

Last year, GE filed a 24,000 return and paid no tax on 10 Billion in profits.

Of the 14 Billion, 9 Billion was from offshore profits and 5 Billion from US profit.

Not only will GE not pay any tax, but the IRS will have to deploy thousands of man hours to audit the return.

It really isn't difficult to understand why people are angry.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...-paid-no-taxes-14-billion-profits_609137.html


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Don't blame GE, blame the tax code. And corporate donations for that matter.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Don't blame GE, blame the tax code. And corporate donations for that matter.


+1

On the other hand that's one of the ways to keep unproductive societies (read not producing anything) working, imagine if taxes were simple, how many accountants, lawyers, clerks, government employees would be out of a job, although with over 9% official unemployment this theory may be out the window ;-).

The cost to taxpayers of fed's simply looking at these returns has to be millions of dollars.


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

sags said:


> GE filed their US income tax return electronically, and it is good thing they did. It was the equivalent of 57,000 pages long (it would amount to a pile of paper 19 feet high), and utilized loopholes in the US tax code to reduce their tax on 14 Billion profit to zero.
> 
> Last year, GE filed a 24,000 return and paid no tax on 10 Billion in profits.
> 
> ...


What most people never think about is that perhaps GE had a lot of losses from 2008, 2009 to carry forward into 2010, 2011, just like any individual would do.

Also,the the other poster was right.....don't blame just GE ......the tax code in the US, just like here in Canada is an absolute MESS.

Keep in mind that Obama, ( who ,by the way, is totally clueless), appointed GE CEO Jeff Inmelt as his "JOBS CZAR"......now thats funny!

I must say however that as a GE shareholder, I would prefer that Inmelt, ( who I don't particularly like in the first place), would spend his time actually running GE , rather than waste time with Obama and his idiot cronies


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## Robillard (Apr 11, 2009)

Homerhomer said:


> +1
> 
> On the other hand that's one of the ways to keep unproductive societies (read not producing anything) working, imagine if taxes were simple, how many accountants, lawyers, clerks, government employees would be out of a job, although with over 9% official unemployment this theory may be out the window ;-).
> 
> The cost to taxpayers of fed's simply looking at these returns has to be millions of dollars.


I disagree. Even if the tax code were simpler, it would still be necessary to employ hordes of people advise on, prepare, and audit taxes. The mechanics of paying tax is simple: figure out what taxable income is, then apply the right marginal tax rates, then offset this amount with tax credits. The real complexity comes from figuring out what taxable income is, and then navigating the tax credits. This is where accountants and tax lawyers earn their keep.

And regarding GE's taxation. Don't be fooled by the eye-popping numbers. Paying zero tax on $14 billion company-wide profit sounds ridiculous, but ignores a lot of important details: GE paid foreign taxes on the forein profits, GE probably didn't repatriate much of this income so it can't be taxed in the US yet, and GE likely had sufficient loss-carry-forwards to offset the $5 billion in taxable US income, plus GE probably made good use of tax credits and accelerated depreciation on capital property.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Robillard said:


> I disagree. Even if the tax code were simpler, it would still be necessary to employ hordes of people advise on, prepare, and audit taxes. The mechanics of paying tax is simple: figure out what taxable income is, then apply the right marginal tax rates, then offset this amount with tax credits. The real complexity comes from figuring out what taxable income is, and then navigating the tax credits. *This is where accountants and tax lawyers earn their keep.*.


This is exactly what I said, if the taxes (be it taxable income or tax credits) were simpler the accountants and tax lawyers wouldn't earn their keep, therefore you wouldn't need to keep them.

Furthermore the audits wouldn't be as complicated, the advice simpler so the hordes of poeple needed to do them should be (at least in theory) be smaller.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

If you simplifed the IRS tax code, 900+ people would be unemployed by GE not to mention their many lobbyists who got the loopholes implemented!


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## Helianthus (Oct 19, 2010)

If we simplified the tax code, what would politicians use to buy votes instead of pandering to every distinct demographic with ridiculous tax credits?!


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

I think we can all agree.

The Tax Code is a ridiculous, complicated , mess all round, and politicians do indeed use it at their leisure to accomplish "social engineering", and to buy votes.

Every time they tell us that they are simplifying the tax code...its gets more onerous and complicated.

If its too complicated for the average Canadian to understand and comply with, then its just wrong, plain and simple.

The question now is how can we demand that it gets fixed and truely simplified, once and for all?

I know that if I was PM or Finance Minister.....this would be one of my first priorities.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I read one Tax Court case, where the CRA argument was so complicated, the judge said that he couldn't understand it, didn't expect the tax filer to understand it, and ruled on behalf of the taxpayer.

The corporate tax structure is really messed up, and most Canadians don't realize what is going on.

We had a full time crew who did nothing but scrap new auto parts, from rims to engines and everything in between. When we asked why they didn't sell them at a discount..........the answer was they could scrap them out at the full wholesale price and considering they bought many of the parts from their own subsidiaries.......they were making a nice profit on the scrap.

Plus they got to keep the income from scrap metal and cardboard recycling.

It kept a few more people working, but what a waste of taxpayer money.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

warp said:


> I think we can all agree.
> 
> The Tax Code is a ridiculous, complicated , mess all round, and politicians do indeed use it at their leisure to accomplish "social engineering", and to buy votes.
> 
> ...


... which is probably why you'll never be PM or Finance Minister .... you will have funding to get elected!

*grin*


Cheers


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm certainly no expert on the topic but I think the issue is the lack of repatriation of retained earnings from international subsidiaries. It's no secret that the US has very high corporate tax rates. US companies can avoid paying US corporate tax on international earnings as long as the funds are not repatriated to the US. 

The US is only doing this to themselves. Repatriation of earnings would do wonders for their economy. They can either reduce corporate taxes or tax companies on world-wide income. Either solution would significantly increase tax revenue as I'm sure they are on the left side of the Laffer curve.

GE has no social or legal obligation to pay taxes if it doesn't have to (we would all do the same). Until the US corporate tax system changes, this will continue to be a farce.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

atrp2biz said:


> The US is only doing this to themselves...


And only for corporations. For individuals, they want every nickel to be reported. And they get taxed when they exceed their local tax rates.


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