# Conservative Party of Canada leadership election, 2017



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

This weekend there will be Conservative Party of Canada leadership election, 2017. In your opinion, who gonna win and who can beat Justin?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I will put it on my 'things to do' list to post who might CPC leadership sometime later on Saturday. 

It's hard to know whether CPC members will vote ideology or who may be the best candidate to beat JT.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Bernier


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> It's hard to know whether CPC members will vote ideology or who may be the best candidate to beat JT.


 Exactly why I asked 2 questions


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

If they vote grassroots 'base' social conservatism.... no, they won't beat JT in 2019. The success factor is fiscal conservatism and centrist social policy, but not bleeding heart social policy.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don't know who will win, but it sounds like their voting scheme is a disaster waiting to happen.

What was wrong with the good old days..........a convention, some backroom dealing, and a new leader emerges from the pack.

All this....who got how many second votes, third votes.....complete nonsense to me and I think it means people won't bother to watch.

I do think Bernier is the only one with a chance to beat Trudeau...........slim as it may be.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

And the winner is...

Andrew Scheer

He says they will be putting aside (for Canadians) issues that there is Conservative disagreement on. Sounds like Harper's gay marriage stance. Good.

And he had good support from across the country.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Andrew who?


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

I very much hope they don't let any specific conservative group take the lead in the party on policy, and truly unite. As a longtime Conservative and Reform party voter, at this point only one thing will change my vote. One of my kids is gay.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

A little too much of a social conservative for me but better than a number of other choices.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

He said won't reopen the gay/abortion issues. His personal views are up to him.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

mordko said:


> He said won't reopen the gay/abortion issues. His personal views are up to him.


Yes, I know he has said that...plus he won't roll back any marijuana legislation that passes either. 

But he intends to tighten up 'assisted death' situations, including allowing medical personnel to opt out, and he believes in funding private schooling and home schooliing. I am against both. His stand on ensuring universities respect the right to free speech could be a double edged sword. I am against anything that strengthens religious influences and it is pretty clear what his motivations are there. But overall, caucus in total will have to set CPC policy so nothing is cast in stone.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Private schooling and home schooling means you don't use up tax-funded systems so a tax rebate is fair. Not sure why anyone would be against private education but then everyone is against private healthcare which is just as silly. 

Opting out assisted death makes sense; I am sure some individuals would refuse whether the opt out is available or not. I am more concerned with making access easier and doubt his policies will be helpful which is unfortunate.

Right now universities are incubating free speech for some while silencing others based on how far left you are. Something has to change; any change would be an improvement.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Private and home schooling are choices parents make. Taxpayers fund a public system. If that is not good enough for whatever reason, they they should pay for their choice themselves.
Taxpayer dollars should not support and encourage segregated education.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

mordko said:


> He said won't reopen the gay/abortion issues. His personal views are up to him.


That was Harper's stance, I can live with that. As someone who is not thrilled about abortions, I can still agree with choice. I respect politicians that can separate their personal views from the office and policy on these issues. 

I also think the free speech at universities is an important issue. As an atheist, my best conversations are with a staunch Catholic. I don't believe religious beliefs should dictate whether one can express an opinion or not, so I can't see religious group expression being anymore harmful than the current incarnation and infiltration of the far left PCness. I'm tired of being told what to think by Trudeau and Soros-funded fringe groups.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Taxpayer dollars should not support and encourage segregated education.


"Segregated education"? Isn't the term used in reference to racial segregation as opposed to parents striving to give what they believe to be best for their kids? Should the government decide everything on your behalf in all cases?


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Sigh.. another social conservative cretin. Harper lite. 
It's like the Federal CPC is now copying the playbook of the morons running the Ontario party. Unelectable at any price.


T2 must be happy this morning (assuming one of the nannies read him the headlines)


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Private and home schooling are choices parents make. Taxpayers fund a public system. If that is not good enough for whatever reason, they they should pay for their choice themselves.
> Taxpayer dollars should not support and encourage segregated education.


That is right-your comments are always ONLY YOUR OPINION-my taxpayer dollars would be better spent on home schooling in many cases rather than the current Daycare setup.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

RCB said:


> That was Harper's stance, I can live with that. As someone who is not thrilled about abortions, I can still agree with choice. I respect politicians that can separate their personal views from the office and policy on these issues.
> 
> I also think the free speech at universities is an important issue. As an atheist, my best conversations are with a staunch Catholic. I don't believe religious beliefs should dictate whether one can express an opinion or not, so I can't see religious group expression being anymore harmful than the current incarnation and infiltration of the far left PCness. I'm tired of being told what to think by Trudeau and Soros-funded fringe groups.


Careful-we have already been warned not to criticize the Untouchable George Soros.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It was like watching paint dry. OH....I can't watch any more I need to wash my hair. 

Good showing by the social conservatives to get Scheer over the top. Have to wonder what this will mean in terms of inter party conflict between the red tories and the reformers.

Saddened to see the the level of support for Kellie Leitch.

The Conservatives have a challenge. For the first time millennials will be the largest voting block in the next election. Wonder if this will be offset by the traditionally high turnout of seniors. Wonder what it will mean for the climate change deniers in the Conservative Party or those who oppose the carbon tax purely for the sake of opposition?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

mordko said:


> Private schooling and home schooling means you don't use up tax-funded systems so a tax rebate is fair. Not sure why anyone would be against private education but then everyone is against private healthcare which is just as silly.
> 
> Opting out assisted death makes sense; I am sure some individuals would refuse whether the opt out is available or not. I am more concerned with making access easier and doubt his policies will be helpful which is unfortunate.
> 
> Right now universities are incubating free speech for some while silencing others based on how far left you are. Something has to change; any change would be an improvement.


Private (religious) schooling and home schooling enables ghettoization. Immigrants and minorities should be integrated with Canadian society. We don't want the Paris suburbs in Canada.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Private (religious) schooling and home schooling enables ghettoization. Immigrants and minorities should be integrated with Canadian society. We don't want the Paris suburbs in Canada.


I agree. I already resent taxpayer funding for separate (RC) school system in most (all?) provinces, albeit at least some of it is sourced via the municipal property tax system. We are supposed to have a secular society - thus don't perpetuate special interest groups.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> I agree. I already resent taxpayer funding for separate (RC) school system in most (all?) provinces, albeit at least some of it is sourced via the municipal property tax system. We are supposed to have a secular society - thus don't perpetuate special interest groups.



Agreed. I would much prefer a _single_ secular public school system that everyone pays into. Anyone is welcome to send their children to private school as long as they foot the bill themselves.

ltr


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Private (religious) schooling and home schooling enables ghettoization. Immigrants and minorities should be integrated with Canadian society. We don't want the Paris suburbs in Canada.


You may not want it, but it will happen (already happening)..


btw, it was an interesting race, in all round except last Andrew Scheer was loosing....but won in the last one on "tie-breaker" 
Not really familiar with Andrew Scheer program, but on the first look he has some good points


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

gibor365 said:


> Not really familiar with Andrew Scheer program, but on the first look he has some good points


Also not familiar with Andrew Scheer, but it appears he's a social conservative and owes his victory to that crowd. Not much in that camp interests me - I'm more of a fiscal conservative.

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Andrew Scheer won because he and Erin O'Toole are cut from the same general 'Harper cloth' with I think less aloofness and more personality. Erin and Andrew were close throughout the balloting, and thus Erin's votes from Round 12 disproportionately went to Andrew on the last ballot. The way it is supposed to happen. None of my preferences like Michael Chong got beyond Round 10.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

AltaRed said:


> Andrew Scheer won because he and Erin O'Toole are cut from the same general 'Harper cloth' with I think less aloofness and more personality. Erin and Andrew were close throughout the balloting, and thus Erin's votes from Round 12 disproportionately went to Andrew on the last ballot. The way it is supposed to happen. None of my preferences like Michael Chong got beyond Round 10.


I was pleased to see Andrew Scheer win. I expect he'll give Justin a good battle in the next election. I have voted Conservative in most federal elections but had difficulty supporting Harper in the last election primarily due to his conduct in the Duffy affair.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I think that he is very close to a Harper clone...but without the rolls of duct tape to keep the MP's quiet.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

mordko said:


> "Segregated education"? Isn't the term used in reference to racial segregation as opposed to parents striving to give what they believe to be best for their kids? Should the government decide everything on your behalf in all cases?


No actually private or home schooling fits the definition of segregation very well.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Nelley said:


> That is right-your comments are always ONLY YOUR OPINION-my taxpayer dollars would be better spent on home schooling in many cases rather than the current Daycare setugp.


And of course your opinion is ONLY yours. It does show ignorance (lack of knowledge) regarding public education though.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> No actually private or home schooling fits the definition of segregation very well.


Just curious...have you had a kid in the elementary portion of the public ed system in the last decade?

Homeschooling or some part of private education can be required to get even close to a decent education these days, especially in Ontario. I had to pull one kid out twice to briefly homeschool. A very bright kid who could read in Kindergarten, but year after year, public education failed to teach her (and the rest of them) Math. Year after year her frustration grew, and her confidence completely disappeared. Public education robbed her of all confidence. Finally, in grade 6, I started forking out big bucks for Kumon Math (extracuricular program) for a few years for both kids. The same kid that didn't know any multiplication facts in grade 6, and couldn't grasp the relationships between addition and subtraction, or multiplication and division, blew EVERYONE away in advanced high school math. At 22 she is now a Director of Payroll.

Public education in Ontario sucks. I would expect, based on my own experience, most send their kids to private schools or homeschool because of the ever increasing shortcomings of public education, not to segregate. Your view seems rather narrow-minded.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Good writeup on Scheer here: 
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/16807094http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/16807094
His support of an education tax credit is problematic though since his 5 children attend a christian school.

Those critical of public education - if you think it is broke, work to fix it. That is not Scheer's position, his is driven by religious belief. Which as others have noted, is a personal choice that shouldn't be supported by tax dollars.

Yes RCB, two. The first also had huge math challenges that we had to assist with many hours at the kitchen table. The second, two years later breezed through. Same teachers and school - it wasn't the system, it was the individual. Unfortunately, caring parents often do need to be involved in supporting their children's education.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

Don't know anything about Scheer (yet), but it sounds like he might struggle to win the vote in the east.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Good writeup on Scheer here:
> http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/16807094http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/16807094
> His support of an education tax credit is problematic though since his 5 children attend a christian school.
> 
> ...


In your case it may have been the individual, but in my case it WAS the system. After entering the extra-curricular program, both of my kids ended up being used by their teachers as informal in-class tutors for most of the rest in math. They had foundational math, most of the rest did not.

I was in the school so many times per yer, meeting with teachers, that I knew them on a first name basis. The TEACHERS admitted it was the system, and it was a teacher that directed us to the Kumon Math program. That teacher told me there were teachers so upset about the system's failings that they weren't sleeping at night, others were retiring to get away from the mess.

Anyone looking to escape such a failing system is segregating? Homeschooling still exists for a variety of reasons. My youngest chose to complete her last year of high school online, at home, so that she could work full-time night shifts, saving for university. She also felt much of class time was wasted on useless, non-course related items. Honour student, four year scholarship to university. Religion or segregationist leanings in this household? Zero.

One need not be a social conservative to support private education or homeschooling.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

I fail to understand the comments on education matters on this thread. The charter provides that Education is a responsibility under Provincial jurisdiction. I don't see the federal government getting involved in this matter


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

RCB said:


> Just curious...have you had a kid in the elementary portion of the public ed system in the last decade?
> 
> Homeschooling or some part of private education can be required to get even close to a decent education these days, especially in Ontario. I had to pull one kid out twice to briefly homeschool. A very bright kid who could read in Kindergarten, but year after year, public education failed to teach her (and the rest of them) Math. Year after year her frustration grew, and her confidence completely disappeared. Public education robbed her of all confidence. Finally, in grade 6, I started forking out big bucks for Kumon Math (extracuricular program) for a few years for both kids. The same kid that didn't know any multiplication facts in grade 6, and couldn't grasp the relationships between addition and subtraction, or multiplication and division, blew EVERYONE away in advanced high school math. At 22 she is now a Director of Payroll.
> 
> Public education in Ontario sucks. I would expect, based on my own experience, most send their kids to private schools or homeschool because of the ever increasing shortcomings of public education, not to segregate. Your view seems rather narrow-minded.


Ontario scores near the top of international rankings in PISA tests. That is largely because Ontario has good public schools. The US scores much lower overall, but children of higher income parents attending private schools in the US are more on par with Ontario.

Not to say that public education is perfect, but that the model has been one of the key engines of social mobility and creation of the middle class.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Numbersman61 said:


> I fail to understand the comments on education matters on this thread. The charter provides that Education is a responsibility under Provincial jurisdiction. I don't see the federal government getting involved in this matter


You're correct re/ education being provincial. The comments in this thread relate to Scheer's proposal to provide a federal tax deduction of up to $4000 per child for parents sending their children to private school or homeschooling.
IMO, if there are issues with public schools, let's address them so all future kids benefit. Since his solution for his kids is the Regina Christian School, it is clearly a faith issue driving him, not a quality of public schools issue. Hopefully the larger constituency of the party will vote this down, much like they have agreed that other issues will not be revisited.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think I like this guy....too bad much of Canada is still in love with quasi socialism and care little about how to pay for confederation.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> You're correct re/ education being provincial. The comments in this thread relate to Scheer's proposal to provide a federal tax deduction of up to $4000 per child for parents sending their children to private school or homeschooling.
> IMO, if there are issues with public schools, let's address them so all future kids benefit. Since his solution for his kids is the Regina Christian School, it is clearly a faith issue driving him, not a quality of public schools issue. Hopefully the larger constituency of the party will vote this down, much like they have agreed that other issues will not be revisited.


The fact is that those parents are saving the taxpayers a lot more than $4000 a year by not sending the kid to Super Daycare. Socialism is sucking this country dry.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> You're correct re/ education being provincial. The comments in this thread relate to Scheer's proposal to provide a federal tax deduction of up to $4000 per child for parents sending their children to private school or homeschooling.
> IMO, if there are issues with public schools, let's address them so all future kids benefit. Since his solution for his kids is the Regina Christian School, it is clearly a faith issue driving him, not a quality of public schools issue. Hopefully the larger constituency of the party will vote this down, much like they have agreed that other issues will not be revisited.


My apologies. I had not closely followed the comments on this thread. I disagree with Scheer's position.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Agree. Elementary and Secondary education is purely a Provincial issue. Does not matter what any Federal politician says about it.

My son, a senior high school teacher, has to deal with students coming into the last year of high school from various faith based private schools. They are behind in a number of ways, the most notable being the ability to think critically. And their marks in certain subjects bear this out in spades.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Ontario scores near the top of international rankings in PISA tests. That is largely because Ontario has good public schools.


 If Ontario has good public school, I would be shocked to know what is going on in average public schools ...


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

gibor365 said:


> If Ontario has good public school, I would be shocked to know what is going on in average public schools ...


My daughter went to Toronto public schools - and said she'll never send her kids to a private one (as knows enough examples how it was just a waste of money for parents )


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Moneytoo said:


> My daughter went to Toronto public schools - and said she'll never send her kids to a private one (as knows enough examples how it was just a waste of money for parents )


There are couple of good private schools, but majority of Private schools just selling the marks  
My son went to IBT program, imho it's better than any private school, daughter going on one of the best in Ontario extended French school and teaching there is crap


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