# If you could move to US without any hassles.....



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sometimes I think it would be nice to move to the US........perhaps a nice sunny climate like Arizona or maybe Las Vegas........., but then I read of all the hassles involved in moving to the US........giving up OHIP..........all the tax rules......and I think.........too much hassle.......why bother?

IF moving to the US full time was an easy transition............just pack the bags and move, would you be more inclined to do it ?

Maybe it is just me...........but these days it almost seems like the US doesn't really want us there.

Didn't they remove us from special status list for immigration ?

They still say we let terrorists into the US from Canada.....on 9-11, and are saying ISIS terrorists will come in from Canada.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I came to the US for a job. (Not for the money but the specific opportunity that came up. I made the same net income in Ontario).

Yes the weather is better; I just spent the last few days frolicking in southern California by the ocean. It was AMAZING. But other than weather, why would you want to be in the US? Just curious what draws you to US... frankly as a Canadian I'm concerned that we're going to start getting overwhelmed by the exodus of Americans. We've got to tighten our border and make it harder for these Americans to come north. With the unfolding disaster of US healthcare, the persistently high unemployment, and generally steady decline in quality of life I think we're going to get tons of Americans moving to Canada.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I would. Give me Hawaii or Florida or the southern desert. Not just the climate- but I really hate how some things are denied us in Canada- like as a guitar player or photographer, if I want to order something on Ebay or Amazon, about 2/3 of the time it won't ship to Canada and I can't buy it here. It's ridiculous. Or getting some types of things online- due to copyrights etc we are often restricted to what we can watch. Canada's fine but I find it a little boring. Of course I'd be in Europe if I had my choice.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Interesting to hear your thoughts. For me, the minor inconvenience of some consumer items being more difficult to obtain in Canada is far, far offset by

* no risk of personal ruin and bankruptcy due to the health problems (a persistent and imminent danger in the US, even when insured)
* a more orderly, trusting and safer society
* no culture of good-versus-evil, no culture of religious zealotry


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

For me, the reason would primarily be better weather, much wider and more interesting geographical differences to explore and experience, and I think probably a lower cost of living.........although it probably depends on location.

We are retired, so jobs wouldn't be a factor.

I could imagine being very happy in Las Vegas...........enjoying all the amenities of the casinos, and the weather.

Where I would want to live.........and the lifestyle I would hope to participate in............and what we could afford........may be two different things though.

I imagine upscale community living, driving a roadster convertible everyday, enjoying lunches and dinners out, enjoying the entertainment and local travel. You know..........like the Freedom 55 ads.......

If all I could afford was a dumpy little place on a back street.......surrounded by sketchy people.....the bloom would fall off the rose colored glasses pretty quickly.....


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

No, not interested. We like to visit but crossed it off our list a long time ago as somewhere we would like to live for even part of the year.


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## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

Not me. I am very happy to be Canadian. The only thing I am not thrilled about is the weather in the winter. A getaway for a few months to a warmer climate would solve that.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Sometimes I think it would be nice to move to the US........perhaps a nice sunny climate like Arizona or maybe Las Vegas........., but then I read of all the hassles involved in moving to the US........giving up OHIP..........all the tax rules......and I think.........too much hassle.......why bother?


My married daughter has been living in the US now for 10 years....after 10 years, she has made 3 moves (first 3 were army bases), then she moved to Phoenix (where she is still now..a school nurse), divorced and living in a rental with her children outside of Phoenix...so far living in the US has not exactly been prosperous for her, not to mention health care hassles. 



> Maybe it is just me...........but these days it almost seems like the US doesn't really want us there.


I don't think it's a case of the US "not wanting us there"..it's more of a case of ..
can you afford to live there? With the exchange on their money being around 10%, that's a fair chunk of your personal spending money you are going to lose on exchange alone, unless you have US bank acounts. 

Then there is the temperature extremes and the high cost of electricity. In the summer +40C is average for the Phoenix area. That is far too hot for us Canadians that are used more to moderate temperatures in our summers and much colder temperatures in our winters.
Of course, there are other states that have more moderate temperatures similar to our own..but then..if temperature and warm winters (or non existant winter)is what you are after, only certain states have no winters to speak of
so unless you move to those states..why move there at all? 



> Didn't they remove us from special status list for immigration ?


I didn't think we had special status for many years now, we are treated just like the rest of the immigrants based on the points system.
If you score higher because you are a professional or business person, you get in sooner than someone that has no skills and just wanting to retire there full time.



> They still say we let terrorists into the US from Canada.....on 9-11, and are saying ISIS terrorists will come in from Canada.


Easy for them to say that after 9/11.
All those terrorists came into the US, and not from Canada, but most Americans are very naive and
don't even know where Canada is. Mind you, we have had our fair share of home grown terrorists and a few others that came into Canada on false pretences, so we really can't blame the Americans now for adopting the attitude that Canada is a terrorist haven.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

We had the opportunity to move pretty hassle free in the early 90s and again in the early 00s. I worked there for a short period in the early 90s. We only considered moving to two areas, the Boston/Providence area and the Pacific northwest, mainly because they were the most 'Canadian' to us. But there are just too many issues. The main reason, was that we felt that there is no way that we wanted to bring 4 children up in the US. At it's core, Canada is the typical northern country with 'look after each other' values while America, despite it's great promise, has turned into a xenophobic, dog eat dog, every man for himself, screw the other guy, kind of a place. That description may be a bit much because most Americans are wonderful people and their desire for America to do good is strong but the execution just plain sucks. There are so many examples of where they have lost their way. Fallen into the clutches of Madison Avenue, Wall Street and as Eisenhower warned, Big Business. Nice place to visit (some places) but decided not to live there.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

fraser said:


> No, not interested. We like to visit but crossed it off our list a long time ago as somewhere we would like to live for even part of the year.


After retirement, we seriously considered Florida, Arizona and So Cal. We eliminated it in 2005 for a number of reasons. Medicare was the largest item. Taxation without representation was another. We knew that the feds would be tax hungry and that did not bode well for the next 30 years.

Many of our friends have chosen one of those states or even Texas! We are still friends. We enjoy Mexico for reasons that our friends do not appreciate. Ironically, more of our friends in Mexico are expat Americans. They are being denied Mexican banking services because of FATCA. There will probably be some "work arounds" but right now it is ugly.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Own a nice house in Florida and love it there but would never move full time. I love Ontario summer and fall. Just sick of our winters.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Probably 10 years ago my dream was to spend winters in Florida ,we do spend a few weeks a year there and love the weather , the seafood ,shopping and of course Disney.Since then we have traveled to places like Spain , Malta ,Germany ,France and many other places in the southern USA and Caribbean .We probably will rotate all these locations and take one winter to Europe the next USA/Caribbean but Canada will always be home.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i think about moving to hawaii occasionally
the cost of living is high and real estate can be pricey but there are still pockets where you can live nicely
it is pretty sunny over there
plus, no more fatca or fbars ... ahh ... sweet !


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Our reasons are very similar to kcowan's and marina's. 

Don't like some of the tax issues, too many other places we want to see, and we have had enough of Florida. This winter is booked. We plan to take another look at PV but probably from a rental perspective. May go down for visit in early Dec. Or wait another year. Either way, Florida, AZ, NV, CAL, Texas, and Hawaii have been off the radar for a while. Other than the warmer weather, the attraction of the USA is just not there for us. ONe looming issue is EU tax rules...they are changing and ther is a prediction that some countries are desperate to tax non residents on certain incomes.


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## Itchy54 (Feb 12, 2012)

Never, ever.
I am a proud Canadian, I love where I live. I cannot see my life being any better living in the United States, except in winter, I hate winter. Florida is likely more of a draw to those out east, a nice drive I think. Is that right?

I like Mexico, some parts. The southern coast of Oaxaca is gorgeous. We will spend one of our horrendous winter months there this year and when we retire and the dog is gone we will leave winter behind and check out the world.

I worry about the taxes in the states. I like being home..


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_If you could move to US without any hassles..... _ there is no such thing  . My wife got couple of rellocation offers with really big moving bonus , (choices CA, OR, AZ), we even flew to those places and considered rellocation .... and decided to stay in Canada (even though my wife should've switch companies)... When you dig into rellocation process , you will see so hassles , thn moving to some European country will seem like a breezee....


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

sags said:


> For me, the reason would primarily be better weather, much wider and more interesting geographical differences to explore and experience. I could imagine being very happy in Las Vegas...........enjoying all the amenities of the casinos, and the weather.
> 
> I imagine upscale community living, driving a roadster convertible everyday, enjoying lunches and dinners out, enjoying the entertainment and local travel. You know..........like the Freedom 55 ads.......


Sounds beautiful, sags. That's the life, if you ask me.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

ditto from me. That lifestyle sounds great.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Ihatetaxes said:


> Own a nice house in Florida and love it there but would never move full time. I love Ontario summer and fall. Just sick of our winters.


Same 

If the tax treatment wasn't such a pain for Canadians, I would consider buying a place down there.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Well.......they say this winter will be worse than last winter, and be extremely cold and harsh.

Last year in Southern Ontario was bad enough, that when it finally ended everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

Too many hassles moving to the US.........I agree with that.

We could be like the guy who just set a record for Carnival cruises. 

He stayed on board the Carnival Elation for 33 consecutive 4-5 day cruises, in memory of the past cruises with his wife.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2014/09/04/carnival-cruise-record-elation/15082985/

I wonder if Carnival offer discounts for staying on consecutive cruises ?

We went on a cruise on the Carnival Elation years ago, and last minute booking cost us $250 each for a 5 day cruise.

$500 a couple for 5 days on board.........$3000 a month.......cheaper than a retirement residence.

Maybe an alternative to buying something down south ?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

sags said:


> I imagine upscale community living, driving a roadster convertible everyday, enjoying lunches and dinners out, enjoying the entertainment and local travel. You know..........like the Freedom 55 ads.........


We rented a convertible in LA. Hey why not? And it was cheap! Then we discovered what it was like sitting on an LA freeway without AC. Never again. Our friend in PV has a PT Cruiser floptop as a second car. Only has the top down at night in the winter, or travelling through the inland mountains during the day. Mostly windows closed, AC on full blast.

(The year I bought my BMW convertible here in BC, there was a stretch of weather from April to November with only a couple of rainy days. With covered parking at both ends, the top stayed down. On a sunny day in January, the rear windscreeen, glass side windows, heated seats and heater blasting made it usable. Putting the top up took 30 seconds.)


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i have lived in virtually every major city on the west coast from san diego to victoria and many of them are beautiful

but i think victoria to be one of the greatest and most livable cities not only in north america but on the planet

the answer is to winter in the usa but certainly not to move there

the usa has big problems ahead of it ...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Our friends put garbage bags over her Miata convertible in James Bay to extend the life of the top and prevent mold in the winter. Of course they are retired and trying to extend the life of everything...

For an even better climate, try Mayne Island. It is in the rain shadow of the Mallahat so gets 330 days a year of no rain. Lots of cloud though. Of course they have those pesky deer and ferries to put up with.

I know a guy who spends summers in Muskoka, winters in Scottsdale, falls and spring in a condo in Toronto and a chalet in Canmore. Of course he spends every Dec 31st in Alberta!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

sags said:


> Sometimes I think it would be nice to move to the US........perhaps a nice sunny climate like Arizona or maybe Las Vegas........., but then I read of all the hassles involved in moving to the US........giving up OHIP..........all the tax rules......and I think.........too much hassle.......why bother?
> 
> IF moving to the US full time was an easy transition............just pack the bags and move, would you be more inclined to do it ?


sags, I have lived in the US for many years for work.

I would not recommend Vegas, southern California (LA, etc.) these days at all.
There are serious environmental issues going on in the south West.
There is a once-in-a-century style drought in California.
The US Dept. of Agriculture has classified it at their highest level - extreme severe or something like that.

Water is being rationed & food costs are skyrocketing.
People with wells in their properties are selling the water to the distributors/speculators, thereby eroding the water table at an even faster rate.

Las Vegas is a desert dressed up as an oasis.
The Colorado river is down to a trickle now - there is nothing left.
They are merely keeping up an illusion.

I find it obnoxious the amount of water that is wasted to keep those golf courses green.

I would not live in those parts even if they paid me to !

That said, there are many other areas that are extremely nice and well suited to retirement living.
Low cost of living, friendly, accepting local people/neighbors, reasonable housing costs (if you decide to buy), low traffic, etc.
You don't necessarily need 35 degree weather throughout the year like in Vegas & LA.
A 35 degree summer with 10 degree winter should be alright, no?

Consider regions like the Carolinas, Georgia, Tennessee, or even Kentucky.
They have relatively mild winters (some parts of North Carolina do get snow, but nothing compared to Ontario), and warm summers.
Believe it or not, they actually have 4 real seasons - oh my gosh - unlike here where we have winter & construction.

Spring begins around early March and is bright, sunny & mild.
May through August is warm.
You won't get cheated out of a fall either, unlike here where we often go from running the A/C to running the furnace in a matter of weeks.
Fall is gorgeous in Tennessee, Georgia (Helen, Dahlonega, etc.).

I could go on & on, but if you want to seriously consider, here are a couple of spots I love.
If I were retiring today, that is where I'd go 

Ashville (NC), Colombia (SC), Raleigh (NC), Nashville (TN), Gainsville (FL), Alpharetta (GA), Macon (GA), Louisville (KY), Lexington (KY)

You are within a few hrs. of driving distance from Florida in all of the above cases.



> Maybe it is just me...........but these days it almost seems like the US doesn't really want us there.


No, I don't think so at all.
Unless you wear a robe, have a long beard, and wear a head turban ;o)


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> sags, I have lived in the US for many years for work.
> 
> I would not recommend Vegas, southern California (LA, etc.) these days at all.
> There are serious environmental issues going on in the south West.
> ...


like harold i lived there many decades and i agree with him about southern (and much of northern which is too pricey) california, nevada and arizona

unlike harold i wouldn't recommend the south merely on the basis of politics and the level of services ... much of the south are net takers from the government, they get far more in services than they return in taxes ... i think they have big problems ahead by the refusal to fund the social service they need for a progressive modern society, others, like harold, disagree and like the weather

if i were to retire there i would look at pockets of northern california, the rural parts of oregon including the high desert, parts of utah and idaho and also parts and pockets of central and mid california though that state is getting so pricey and of course hawaii and parts of florida away from the mega centers ... if i had to pick one area it would be the desert areas of utah and oregon


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

fatcat said:


> unlike harold i wouldn't recommend the south merely on the basis of politics and the level of services ... much of the south are net takers from the government, they get far more in services than they return in taxes ... i think they have big problems ahead by the refusal to fund the social service they need for a progressive modern society


I do agree on both counts reg. the south/south-east.
Social service quality is not as great compared to more developed parts of the country, esp. the East Coast like NY, Boston, New England area.

Now, there are parts of the south/south east that are relatively better developed in terms of social infrastructure, and social services.
For instance, the closer to get to Atlanta, the better the services and infrastructure get.

On the other hand, large swaths of the "Bible Belt" feel like the 1800s.
Take a drive through Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, Memphis, Jackson (MS), and you may feel like being in a third-world country.

Which is why location selection is important.

Part of the reason is a cultural/philosophical resistance in these parts of the US to pay for services via higher taxes.
On my shorter trips (for work or vacation), I am often amazed at how little taxes have increased in these parts.
User fees, toll roads, etc. are relatively unchanged for over 10 years, in spite of the entire world having changed around them (US budget crisis, $17T debt, etc.).
No politician of any creed or color may dare raise taxes by one red cent.

Back on topic, I suppose someone like sags should be mostly agnostic of these issues.
They won't be paying income taxes or property taxes (let's leave FATCA aside for a minute).
They won't be using many of the services or would have no problem paying for those.
For the most part, user fees for services are relatively lower than similar service in Canada (leaving health care aside, which is a separate topic).



> if i were to retire there i would look at pockets of northern california, the rural parts of oregon including the high desert, parts of utah and idaho and also parts and pockets of central and mid california though that state is getting so pricey and of course hawaii and parts of florida away from the mega centers ... if i had to pick one area it would be the desert areas of utah and oregon


Idaho is nice.
We had friends in Idaho Falls, until they got fed up with the lack of career & economic progress there and moved to Boston 
However, being in Idaho/Utah/ region, sags won't really be escaping the brutal winters, which is the primary intent.
In some ways, the weather of southern Ontario (esp. the London/Windsor corridor where sags lives) is better than Idaho & Utah.

Long story short, spot selection is very important.
There are always pockets and regions that are different than the general area.
For instance, since you brought up Florida, take a look at Gainsville, FL.
It is a relatively small town, far away from the touristy hustle of Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, etc.
The University of Florida is located here as well.
I found the weather in Gainsville far better than the heat & humidity of Miami, Jacksonville, and other areas closer to the water.

The key is to spend some non touristy time in a few selected spots before making up your mind.
Look at the social infrastructure, cost of living, type of people around, main industries/occupations in the area, etc.
There is a lot of variance within each state, let alone within a region in the US.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> For me, the reason would primarily be better weather, much wider and more interesting geographical differences to explore and experience, and I think probably a lower cost of living.........although it probably depends on location.


I'm not sure what I'd gain in the US that can't be had by staying under the 100+ days a year Canadians are allowed to visit without becoming taxable.




sags said:


> ... If all I could afford was a dumpy little place on a back street.......surrounded by sketchy people.....the bloom would fall off the rose colored glasses pretty quickly.....


That's where when driving around Florida, that nice middle class type neighbourhood, within a few streets turned in the what looked like a war zone and it backed onto a gated luxury community ... it doesn't take much to go from one extreme to the other.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> ... Easy for them to say that after 9/11.
> All those terrorists came into the US, and not from Canada, but most Americans are very naive and don't even know where Canada is.


How can we expect better when their federal officials who at best, *should* know better or at worst, are knowingly propagating the idea when the investigations has shown for the 9/11 terrorists, Canada was not in the picture.




carverman said:


> ... Mind you, we have had our fair share of home grown terrorists and a few others that came into Canada on false pretences, so we really can't blame the Americans now for adopting the attitude that Canada is a terrorist haven.


Yes we can ... their officials as well as PBS has shown they have far more than Canada.
If one is not willing to look at the facts - what one does is not going to work.

It's like the contrast of the main US media broadcasts versus the PBS broadcasts on Sept 11th. The main media "no one ever thought an extremist would use an airplane as a bomb" where on PBS, "the CIA wrote a paper on this eight years ago". The other one that stuck out was where the main media had never heard of Osa Bin Laden versus PBS that chronicling years of US intelligence tracking/worrying about him.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> Well.......they say this winter will be worse than last winter, and be extremely cold and harsh.


I'm not sure how this is possible as last year was the coldest in a decade. In most recent years, there's only about three weeks of really cold and last winter I recall six or seven.

The predictions I've seen have been for cooler than average ... which will be a big improvement over last year's extended deep freese and less snow than last year.




sags said:


> ... $500 a couple for 5 days on board.........$3000 a month.......cheaper than a retirement residence.
> Maybe an alternative to buying something down south ?


I'll have to find the rental notices to see what people at work want for a week at their place in Florida.


Cheers


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Interesting to hear your thoughts. For me, the minor inconvenience of some consumer items being more difficult to obtain in Canada is far, far offset by
> 
> * no risk of personal ruin and bankruptcy due to the health problems (a persistent and imminent danger in the US, even when insured)
> * a more orderly, trusting and safer society
> * no culture of good-versus-evil, no culture of religious zealotry


You're making these observations based on your experience living in just one part of the United States. 

I haven't lived under the new health care policies so I can't comment on that, but I can comment on your second and third bullets:

2. Parts of the US where I've lived have been just as (if not more) "orderly, trusting, and safer" than where I live in Canada. I lived in Vermont for 10 years without ever having locks on the doors to my house. You can do that in parts of Canada too, I'm sure, but not where I live now.

3. There are large pockets of religious zealotry and a culture of good-v-evil in parts of the US, and other areas where there's no evidence of it at all. I've been in cities in the South (e.g., Asheville, North Carolina) that would probably feel "Canadian" to you.

If you read comments on this forum I think you'll find no shortage of religious zealotry and good-v.-evil thinking among some of the Canadians posting here; those qualities are not unique to people living in the US. ;-)


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> I would not recommend Vegas, southern California (LA, etc.) these days at all.
> There are serious environmental issues going on in the south West.
> There is a once-in-a-century style drought in California.
> The US Dept. of Agriculture has classified it at their highest level - extreme severe or something like that.


The other thing to consider is that California has gone through periods of droughts lasting hundreds of years; even if you don't believe that humans are contributing to climate change, California, Arizona, Nevada, and that entire region of the far West is headed for a very uncertain future. Much of their water supply depends on mountain snowpacks, and with climate change more of the winter precipitation has been falling as rain rather than snow.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

brad said:


> I've been in cities in the South (e.g., Asheville, North Carolina) that would probably feel "Canadian" to you.


That was #1 on my list above in post # 24.
Great minds think alike, eh?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> That was #1 on my list above in post # 24.
> Great minds think alike, eh?


Asheville is great. I've been a few times as I have a good friend who lives there. He plants peas on Valentine's Day, which is hard to imagine up here. Nice climate, not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, although it's prone to ice storms. Gorgeous scenery. It is, however, something of an island of moderation in a sea of ********. Travel even 20 minutes out of Asheveille and every store has a TV delivering the Fox News Propaganda Machine.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> I'm not sure what I'd gain in the US that can't be had by staying under the 100+ days a year Canadians are allowed to visit without becoming taxable.
> 
> That's where when driving around Florida, that nice middle class type neighbourhood, within a few streets turned in the what looked like a war zone and it backed onto a gated luxury community ... it doesn't take much to go from one extreme to the other.
> 
> ...


Agree with both statements  Have been in many states, OR is probably the best (except Portland), mild winters, but rainy... Vancouver Island is better and no hassle of moving


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

brad said:


> You're making these observations based on your experience living in just one part of the United States.


OK that's a fair point



> 2. Parts of the US where I've lived have been just as (if not more) "orderly, trusting, and safer" than where I live in Canada. I lived in Vermont for 10 years without ever having locks on the doors to my house. You can do that in parts of Canada too, I'm sure, but not where I live now.


Oh I'm jealous, Vermont is wonderful. I have relatives in the northeast states and I've always enjoyed my time there.



> If you read comments on this forum I think you'll find no shortage of religious zealotry and good-v.-evil thinking among some of the Canadians posting here; those qualities are not unique to people living in the US. ;-)


Yes you're right -- and to be honest I've been shocked as I've read those kinds of posts here, but apparently this vein runs in Canada too. Given how many people voted for Harper, perhaps it's more pervasive than the sense I got living in the "bubble" of downtown Toronto. I had a certain feeling of the values and culture of our society, while people in all the suburbs around me voted for Rob Ford and Harper. _Crazy._

People don't admit this outright, but the religious zealots are drawn to Harper as they feel comfort in his party's values. The level of support for the far-right Conservatives (which let's remember are *nothing like the traditional Conservative party*) continues to shock and amaze me. Has Canada changed a lot in just a couple decades? Or is Harper just a more skilled manipulator of society and public opinion, and better at leveraging neo-con tools such as fear-mongering, black-vs-white false dichomoties, and opportunistic implementation of agendas?

With so much immigration happening all the time, I would have never thought this possible: how on earth could so many immigrants be aligning with a racist, anti-immigrant party?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Given how many people voted for Harper, perhaps it's more pervasive than the sense I got living in the "bubble" of downtown Toronto.
> ...
> People don't admit this outright, but the religious zealots are drawn to Harper as they feel comfort in his party's values.


Oh please, can you spare us this balderdash of FUD mongering about Harper?

Those that vote for Harper are _religious zealots_, but those that vote for McWynne or Ignatieff are not?
Those that vote for Harper are anti-immigrant xenophobes but those that vote for Trudeau are all upright, liberal, noveau social democrats?
The CPC is mongering fear, racism, and hidden agendas but the McWynne's and Trudeaus are not?



> With so much immigration happening all the time, I would have never thought this possible: how on earth could so many immigrants be aligning with a racist, anti-immigrant party?


If you call immigration reform being anti-immigration, then sure, it is a compliment to the Harper administration.

Do not forget that even the infamous TFW program is a brainchild of your favorite pro-immigration Liberals.

The present administration is taking all the flak for it on its chin, but the truth is that it was created by none other than Sr. Trudeau (surprise, surprise) and for decades various liberal administrations pumped and expanded it.
It was the greatest liberal role model - Jean Chrétien - who significantly expanded the program to include the current low skill workers.
Remember the "Low Skill Pilot Project" from the early 2000s?

The fact is that the TFW program was put in its current form by various liberal administrations over the years.

Like most other topics, you love to throw nonsensical FUD around, use abusive, inflammatory language, and have no clue about historical facts.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> ... Yes you're right -- and to be honest I've been shocked as I've read those kinds of posts here, but apparently this vein runs in Canada too ...


I can't help wondering if those who have been campaigning for Canada to become more American have been getting their way! :biggrin:


Cheers


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

In my experience, people in all geographies are nice enough as long as you avoid discussing religion or politics. But it is nice to be in a place where everyone is compatible.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Most of the world becomes more American every day in terms of culture. That said, if Canada became part of the United States, the entire country would likely be blue at election time with the possible exception of one province.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

uptoolate said:


> Most of the world becomes more American every day in terms of culture. That said, if Canada became part of the United States, the entire country would likely be blue at election time with the possible exception of one province.



we are blue. true blue. on est bleu aussi.
.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

uptoolate said:


> That said, if Canada became part of the United States, the entire country would likely be blue at election time with the possible exception of one province.


Hmm, I thought Canada looked pretty much like the US in this regard: a set-on-its-side sandwich of red meat between two slices of blue bread.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

brad said:


> Hmm, I thought Canada looked pretty much like the US in this regard: a set-on-its-side sandwich of red meat between two slices of blue bread.



might this be one of your famous recipes? idk, it doesn't sound very tasty ...

Edit: by which i mean, your recipes are always tasty


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> we are blue. true blue. on est bleu aussi.


What is blue? What is red? That is the eternal question.

In Canada, Red is the color of the Federal Liberals, Blue is the color of the Conservatives (Harper Conservatives).
In the US, Red is the color of the GOP (Romney & Bush's GOP), Blue is the color of the Democ-rats.

So, which blue are we aligned with? ;o)


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

I was thinking that if we were part of the US then we would have to comply with their color scheme. And, heaven forbid, spelling!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

uptoolate said:


> I was thinking that if we were part of the US then we would have to comply with their *color *scheme. *And, heaven forbid, spelling!*


Congratulations - you are already in compliance :biggrin:


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Yes and it looks so totally unnatural that I think that we should just stay sovereign and keep our own language! Vive le Canada libre!


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

I'd move to the US for the better weather and the diverse natural environment. There is no culture shock. Same language, people are just as nice (or just as mean), most streets are just as safe and many places look the same. 

The only differences between our countries that I find relevant are: 
- Their health insurance system is not as good and it won't be as good until they get single payer. 
- Americans are usually more politically energized. It seldom takes long to learn an American's political affiliation, even if you don't ask and don't care.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

_IF moving to the US full time was an easy transition............just pack the bags and move, would you be more inclined to do it ?_

Not until the NRA is outlawed as a terrorist organization. (ie. when h**l freezes over) :rolleyes-new:


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## cougar (Oct 15, 2014)

My husband is a dual American/Canadian, and I would like to be there in the winters for better weather( however with a child still in high school this is not too practical). However for reasons of healthcare, taxation and the prevalence of guns there etc we choose to live here and vacation there or other warm places as time and budget permits each winter. Other than the cold winters, life is pretty good for us in Canada.


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## Jorob199r (Sep 4, 2014)

I'd move to the U.S in a heartbeat. I love the weather, sports mad culture and varied landscapes. Oh yes, and the food, ie real BBQ and real Mexican food.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Jorob199r said:


> I'd move to the U.S in a heartbeat. I love the weather


Yup, I hear it is really nice in Buffalo these days :biggrin:


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Jorob199r said:


> Oh yes, and the food, ie real BBQ and real Mexican food.


You might get TexMex but never real. Many people prefer the fake stuff.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We have no desire to move south...especially now with the dollar difference. Other things on our to do list include a two month rental in France, a two month rental in Spain, and then perhaps Portugal, two month winter rental in PV next year, and so on. Lots on our respective lists.

We have enjoyed our travels in the US but would not consider moving there for a variety of reasons.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Fraser, nice bucket list. 

We would also like to stay in Spain and in Portugal for a while. We haven't thought much about France but maybe it will be added to the bucket as we move through the list.

Re the US I am going to visit for about 2.5 months this year and also have enjoyed our many previous shorter trips. However we have no desire to move there.


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## jwsclark19 (Nov 24, 2014)

I have about another 30 years of work left, but it's fun to dream. Actually, maybe in about 25 years, I might go on a reduced work schedule. Depends what the future holds. I live in Winnipeg, so the winters here are absolutely brutal. It would be nice to go somewhere warm every year for at least January-mid March. I would never move there permanently, just because of all of the perks we have as Canadians. Here's a link to a house you could buy in beautiful Monterey, California (I had the chance to go to Monterey this summer, and it was amazing). This house in Monterey is the same price as a townhouse in Toronto lol.

http://www.trulia.com/property/3033966145-287-Monroe-St-Monterey-CA-93940#photo-1


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

jwsclark19 said:


> I have about another 30 years of work left, but it's fun to dream. Actually, maybe in about 25 years, I might go on a reduced work schedule. Depends what the future holds. I live in Winnipeg, so the winters here are absolutely brutal. It would be nice to go somewhere warm every year for at least January-mid March. I would never move there permanently, just because of all of the perks we have as Canadians. Here's a link to a house you could buy in beautiful Monterey, California (I had the chance to go to Monterey this summer, and it was amazing). This house in Monterey is the same price as a townhouse in Toronto lol.
> 
> http://www.trulia.com/property/3033966145-287-Monroe-St-Monterey-CA-93940#photo-1


i would go about 200 miles south to ojai and get much better winters


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