# I still feel guilty



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I went out tonight with some friends and ended up spending $70.00.

I had a good time, but I always feel so guilty afterwards. $70.00 is a lot of money to be spending in 4 hours time.

Granted, I don't do this all the time - but still, I can never get my head wrapped around the cost of "having fun".

I think my problem is that I focus on what I don't have that I used to have in the past, and that I focus on what I could have in the future if I don't make mistakes in the present. (and this goes beyond finances)

But I just cant justify in my mind, the price of going out. Beer is $6, movies is like $12 just for a ticket, go-karting is insanely priced, driving costs $70/tank of gas, a fast food combo is $10..... you get the point.

I don't want to waste my youth, and I could die tomorrow, but at the same time... I have to rationalize it.

If I were to die tomorrow, I would be dead... so it wouldn't matter if i lived my life to the fullest or died with lots of cash.

And humans, they are a special breed. We are intelligent, yet not intelligent enough to analyze ourselves.

The mind only cares about NOW and FUTURE. It never cares about the past, except for what is lost.

You will "play now" and "suffer later" once the fun has ended.

Sometimes I rather just not even go out. It's more comfortable to stay at home and know that I didn't spend a fortune. Because, there's a 99.99% chance that I will wake up tomorrow and if I really wanted to, I could do it later on.

And isn't that what saving is about? Isn't that what it means to beat your own brain? To "defer gratification"?

I think I've come to the conclusion that maybe I just don't make enough money to meet my lifestyle. It's not my lifestyle, because I can live just fine within my means - that's not what I'm talking about. $70 isn't going to break the bank..... but I won't be able to achieve my END goal on my current income, and spending $70.00 is setting me further back.

I would like to retire by 50. I decided today that I think 45 would be nice to retire at. Anything before 45 is too young, and anything after 50 is pushing it.

And I don't know how correct I am, so maybe someone can point it out if I'm misguided, but I believe to retire comfortably at 45 years of age, earning 6% yoy, I would need to invest about $2000/month for the next 24 years. And I can't afford to save $2000/month. I can save maybe a little more than half that. $1200 if I am lucky.

Am I the only person that struggles with this? Do I just need a higher income? 

I feel like I need another raise just to put towards "entertainment". I am saving a bundle, but I still don't feel like I am saving enough. It would be great to make another $250/month after tax.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

How many beers did you say you had tonight?   That is some serious over-analyzing. Do you need to watch your spending ... absolutely, but not at the expense of wasting your youth staying at home worrying about retiring at 45. Get out and have fun! Trust me, at 45 you won't want to squish your pre-arthritic body into a go-cart


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## Abha (Jun 26, 2011)

You're young enough to keep school in the picture. Perhaps pick an educational goal that will boost your income significantly. 

I think within the banking environment you'll stay within the five figure annual salary for most of your career unless you get very lucky (Executive positions).

You do have a fondness for vehicles so maybe you can follow something along that path.


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## spirit (May 9, 2009)

*Hmmm. How long are you planning for?*

Reading your post you sound like you have some serious long term plans that you are thinking about. You don't mention if you have a partner, thinking of getting a partner or having any children. Either one will make a huge shift in your planning but come with great fringe benefits
Listen to a lot of people and pick up ideas from those that have what you would like. I know at 50 I had gone back to a career I put on hold to raise my children. I went back for a masters degree, while working almost full time. I did that for 3 years and it never felt like I was working a day but that I was on an adventure. The secret is to find doing something that you have a passion for and time will not matter so much. Now at 60 I am still working part time and never plan on leaving. Well maybe in 5-10 years.  Grandchildren have not come into play but I might just retire if my children want my help with them.
The point is to try and live below your means. Don't deprive yourself of fun times but keep it within reason. Have long term goals, short term goals but be open to change if it comes along.
I was just talking to a good friend tonight about this topic and we decided our best investments were getting the best education we could and marrying great partners. Good luck and keep us posted


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

You'll be alright your young and a social lifestyle is a happy lifestyle as long as your not charging things to a card you can't afford to pay back which your not...Every once in a while it's good to unwind....$70 in four hours isn't too bad... just ask any of us who play golf in the summer  retiring by 45 is an aggressive plan good luck in meeting that goal..I'm aiming for 55 myself


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

This post sounds like something I would write if I went out and did the same thing and had a great time time and then smoked a fattie at the end of the night. Seriously if you can't go out and have a good time time at your age without having to worry about how every dollar spent will impact your retirement then you are truely wasting your youth. For Gods sake you're 21 years old. Live a little. No, live it up alot. I was having nights like this 25 years ago when I was in university almost every weekend and I can guarantee you the last thing on my mind was how my projected retirement date will be affected if I have an extra pint.
I'm 46 now and with what I have I still don't think I have enough to retire outright yet.my point is that if you are so focussed on the far future you are gong to miss out on the near now. Don't deprive yourself but also be responsible.Besides what right now is tellng you that you want to retire at 45? Sure there are a bunch of blogs out there touting it but if you don't hate your job what's the point? Seems to me like freedom 45 is a relatively recent concept. 25 years ago if you asked me what age Iwould want to retire when I started my career I would have had no idea. It seems to me that today people are planning their exit strategies before they even begin their careers. That would seem to indicate to me that they have accepted that they are not going to be happy with their chosen paths and are just clocking in until the day comes when they can say I'm outta here.
Just my two pennies worth.
diharv


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Retiring by 45 is not the status quo so you can't live the status quo. I don't think you have to cheap out on fun and life experiences though. I avoid spending money on things that aren't fun anyways, like interest and fees, and just spend money reasonably on fun. 

There are ways to have fun for cheap, and there are ways to spend less having the same fun. Fast food can be $10 or you can buy the daily special for $5. You can drink at home or be the DD, I spend a lot of money on drinks myself but I'm ok with that. I always regret spending money on movie tickets - you don't talk to your friends or date and it's ridiculously over priced and today's are brutal imo. For go-carting, I have friends who were in a club and/or bought their own go kart to make it worthwhile. There are many cheaper hobbies. I've always been the type to buy the season pass and focus on 1 activity for a year rather than to pay full $$$ for random marked up tickets. It's just more efficient bang for the buck

You probably have a lot more potential to increase your salary than to save money at your age. I worked part time the entire time I was at school, which not only earns money but saves money. You can study part time as well. Even now, I spend some weekends like this one just studying. Some weekends I just go to a house party and it costs next to nothing. Last weekend I spent a small fortune on fun, no regrets.

You probably don't have to save as much as you think, but it gives you options later on. I'm seriously considering taking a year or two off when I'm 30 just to travel. Even if I did retire early I'd probably get a relaxed job just to finance expensive hobbies. Also 6% ROR might be hard to earn now, but it will be easy later when you have more to work with and dividends keep increasing etc. I think you're way ahead saving some money young, but you probably don't need to save as much as you think. Heck most people live pay to pay


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Having money goals is SUPER but it's okay to have a little fun along the way also. 

If $70 is causing that much of a dent in your goals/future plans, then maybe those goals need to be re-examined?


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> And I don't know how correct I am, so maybe someone can point it out if I'm misguided, but I believe to retire comfortably at 45 years of age, earning 6% yoy, I would need to invest about $2000/month for the next 24 years. And I can't afford to save $2000/month. I can save maybe a little more than half that. $1200 if I am lucky.
> 
> Am I the only person that struggles with this? Do I just need a higher income?
> 
> I feel like I need another raise just to put towards "entertainment". I am saving a bundle, but I still don't feel like I am saving enough. It would be great to make another $250/month after tax.


That's only something you need to worry about if you believe you've already achieved the max salary you will in yoru working career. In my case I have switched jobs twice since graduating and both times resulted in significant pay increases. If you stay at the same company you are lucky to get a 3% raise per year. If you don't feel you make enouhg, switch jobs after a while (but not too soon, you don't want to look like a job hopper), and after a while you might be able to save $4000 a month to more than make up for the time you couldn't save $2000.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Listen KaeJS... you are LIGHTYEARS ahead of where I was at 21. And guess what, I am on track to RETIRE AT 45. 

For the past 10 years I have been able to save 4k per month... and expect to be able to save 5k per month for the next 5 years, at which point I'll be 45 and ready to quit the rat race.

Now, at age 21 I wasn't able to save a damn penny, and I really didn't get too serious about getting out of debt until I was 30. You have so much time on your side.

The most important factor in being able to save so much per month is having two incomes. When I met my wife (internet dating ) and learned that her lifestyle goals (living below ones means, saving money, not having kids, retiring early etc) were almost an exact match of mine - well, I can tell you it felt like hitting the lottery. We are truly partners in life - emotionally and FINANCIALLY. She knows how much my worklife is slowly killing me, so she has agreed to work for another 5 years after I retire at 45 - as long as the house is spotless, dinner is on the table for her every night and I more resemble the fun loving guy she met 10 years ago. She will then join me in retirement - or not, as she is one of those weirdos that loves her job. 

KaeJS, you will be fine.... and meeting (and wedding?) a like-minded life partner will help put you on a path towards your goals.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/

Check this guy out. I find there's a little bit too much 'look what I can do' to convince you to buy his product, but he's on to something. 

Two main premises are:

1) Earn $1,000 more per month. 
2) Take care of your savings first, then enjoy the rest.

I'd suggest you do both. Maybe a part time job, bartend one or two nights a week for an extra 1K a month. Put aside X% or $X a month for savings, then don't sweat what you do with the rest.


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## cannon_fodder (Apr 3, 2009)

How do you envision being able to spend money in your retirement and enjoy it if you can't do it now? If you continue having a miserly approach to money for the next 20 years, what makes you think you will suddenly loosen the purse strings when you have no job and have to live solely on your investments? You apparently live well below your means now yet abhor even relatively minor indulgences.

And it can be beneficial to have a partner on your path to financial freedom - IF you stay with that person who is similarly inclined to fiscal prudence. But, if the partnership dissolves taking away half of your assets initially and a monthly payment, it may end up costing you more than if you never met.

It was only six years ago that we got serious about even contemplating retirement. Through some good fortune and constant vigilance, our investments produced returns greatly exceeding our employment income after only five years. We are in a position where we can retire today in spite of the fact that we have increased our discretionary expenses (now we travel 2-3 times per year rather than just once). My wife has been responsible for encouraging us to enjoy more of life now rather than postpone until we retire - smart woman.


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## w0nger (Mar 15, 2010)

are we allowed to drunk post on this forum? lol... just kidding...

i'm on a plan to retire by 45 as well... but... if i gotta go out and spend $100 on a night of fun, then i'll do it... everyone has a plan... you've just gotta be able to adapt... why sacrifice our youth in an effort to enjoy old age? 

retirement; working because you want to, not because you have to...


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

You can't save $2000 a month now but wait and as your income grows your savings will as well. In 5-10 years maybe you start saving $3000 a month who knows.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

mind_business said:


> How many beers did you say you had tonight?   That is some serious over-analyzing.


I was 99% sober.  I didn't drink like a fish, and it had been a couple hours since then that I posted and I still feel just as guilty today as last night lol. Bit of a better mood, though.



Abha said:


> You're young enough to keep school in the picture. Perhaps pick an educational goal that will boost your income significantly.


School is not out of the picture. I will never do physical labour again. As for cars.... I don't want my hobby to become my job. I would end up hating my hobby.



spirit said:


> You don't mention if you *have a partner*, thinking of *getting a partner* or *having any children*.


1. Not anymore
2. Not any time soon (well.. sometimes people come along, so you never know)
3. Never.



Jon_Snow said:


> ]
> For the past 10 years I have been able to save 4k per month... and expect to be able to save 5k per month for the next 5 years, at which point I'll be 45 and ready to quit the rat race.


I think you make a lot of money, and that is not the norm... Unless you mean 4k/month between you and your wife.


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## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

If you did this every week, there might be an issue.

Once in awhile, blow the money. You gotta live. Life is short.


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## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

w0nger said:


> are we allowed to drunk post on this forum? lol... just kidding...


That was funny.

I've often wondered how many times folks come on here, after a bunch of "pops"


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

^ That reminded me. I have one in the freezer!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Phew. Not frozen. 

I'd be more interested to know how many people browse the forum while they are visiting Jamaica.


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## meddlesomemarmots (Feb 16, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> You will "play now" and "suffer later" once the fun has ended.
> 
> Sometimes I rather just not even go out. It's more comfortable to stay at home and know that I didn't spend a fortune. Because, there's a 99.99% chance that I will wake up tomorrow and if I really wanted to, I could do it later on.
> 
> ...


From reading this, I'm not 100% convinced that earning extra money would cure this problem. Say you make another $250 a month - and spent it on entertainment, would I be correct in guessing that you'll feel guilty about that $250 as well?

Whilst 'deferring gratification' can definitely be a great (motivational) tool for a saver, I feel that sometimes (especially with myself) that keeping an eye on spending a little money on enjoying life is as equally important as saving money. I know that sometimes I feel like saving, and feeling like I'm missing out on something I can afford but not justify spending money on, means that I'm 'earning' the future happiness more because I 'suffered' more to get to the position.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> Phew. Not frozen.
> 
> I'd be more interested to know how many people browse the forum while they are visiting Jamaica.


Not while in Jamaica, but have while on vacation. 

Seriously though, I think it's great that you're thinking about retiring early, but you're still really young (21 or 25 right?) I think you have the key things down packed right now in terms of finance which is stay out of debt, and save some money. However, I would think you would be much better focused in your career and increasing your earnings overtime. 

At 21, I was in debt with both student loans, and consumer debt, with no savings. That's when things are supposed to be hard. You'll go alot longer in your goal in by increasing income. I don't know why you think that a higher income is out of the ordinary. There are alot of people here with higher incomes, in just takes time.

What is it that you want to do when you retire at 45? I think there needs to be a little balance in the journey in getting there. You're just beginning your career, yet are already wanting to retire. Wouldn't it make sense to find out what you really like, and then do that? I know for my spouse and I we could probably retire at 45, but would have to give up the things that bring us a lot of enjoyment, and that we really value? Then we would need to live a frugal retirement, I just don't understand the point of giving up everything, just to retire earlier to do what?


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

They way I see is: a dollar saved and invested at 25/30 will grow to 5 - 8$ when i am 50, thanks to the magic of compound interest.

However, there no need to be a penny hoarder to have a nice retirement, just use common sense. A beer (or ten) with your pals once in a while will not hurt your long term goals.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Increasing your income in when your younger pays off even more. If I could make an extra $1000 (after tax) /year at 25, that will be $25000 at 50.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Kaejs,your probably a intj personality,its most likely in your "make up".

Your goal focused,i struggle with trying to "stay' in the present myself and have a hell of a time dialing back.

Im abit like you with wanting to retire early,its a double edge sword because in someways thinking that far ahead is a superior quality but where do you stop?Its mountain climbing,i can get in this trap myself(tunnel vision)and lose a sense of whats important.
Example:i will be out with a ggroup of friends and be thinking about something so much,or how to do something for the next day and lose my place in the situation,maybe its add or something for me,but if i get soomething in my head i cant shut it down(retire early).....you like this?


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> Increasing your income in when your younger pays off even more. If I could make an extra $1000 (after tax) /year at 25, that will be $25000 at 50.


That would correspond to a 13.75% annual return of investment. Tell me where you invest !


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant if you can work on increasing your income early on, that income will often stay with you for much of your life. So focusing on something as small as $1000 more, over 25 years of work is $25k - thtas not even invested.

There is a limit to how much one can save, but there really isn't a limit in how much one can make.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

KaeJS, it seems from what I've read in your earlier posts that you're doing better than 99% of young people your age. You have a well-paying job; you have a financial plan along with the self-discipline to stick to it; and you are saving and investing an impressive amount of your income. I'm having a very comfortable retirement, but I didn't start taking it seriously until I was 40 years old - if I had started at your age, I would be wealthy by now. What I'm trying to say is that I think your only problem is that you don't realize how well you're doing. I respect your responsible attitude to a large extent, but I also agree with those who say you should work on lightening up your attitude a little and learn to set an amount of money aside each month to spend on yourself - guilt-free!


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Yes, I detect a very high focus upon goals. At 21 it is more typical to live for short term. Life is full of twists and turns. The OP can fall in love tomorrow or go through some other life-altering event. The OP is assuming everything will remain exactly the same for him between now and 45. Again, this type of focus on such a lofty goal isn't really what someone should be obsessing about at 21.

Obsess over girls, your car, buying furniture for your new place, finding your social circles for your hobbies, looking for a better job etc. Think about retirement later.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I'd be more interested to know how many people browse the forum while they are visiting Jamaica.


Well it is not rum, but posting from PV, I often have a marg or two. But usually just post in the morning, well before Jimmy Buffet time.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I'll be posting a fair bit from Los Cabos in a couple of weeks. Just wait for that tequila fueled wit.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

donald said:


> Kaejs,your probably a* intj personality*,its most likely in your "make up".
> 
> Your goal focused,i struggle with trying to "stay' in the present myself and have a* hell of a time dialing back.*
> 
> ...


Wow. You read me like a book.

I am definitely an INTJ - so you picked that up!  (impressive)

And yes, I am exactly the same way. Sometimes I will be with friends and I will ask them a question. 40 minutes later I will say something like "But do you think...." and they are all wondering what I am talking about. Then I explain what I'm trying to say and they all complain "That was FORTY MINUTES ago". Some of them are getting better now, mainly my "best" friend. He understands and he is usually ready to sift through everything we've talked about that day to relate with what I am saying. My friends often call me "One track mind" when we all hang out. And I guess it fits.

This even goes beyond finance. If I am interested in something - watch out. I will research the hell out of it. Day in - Day out, until I know everything. 

Tunnel vision? Yes.



the-royal-mail said:


> obsessing about at 21.
> 
> *Obsess over girls, your car,*


^ Always those two.


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## Oilers82 (Jan 17, 2011)

I actually think this is a good attitude to have until you reach a higher income.

At 21 I was still in school, not earning a thing and in fact paying 5 figures instead of making that. I was very conscious about money spent. Its important to have that "guilt" if you're gonna ultimately keep after your financial goals. Have fun, but like others have said, you don't necessarily need to spend a lot to have fun.

I've always had that guilty financial conscience until the past 2 years, when I've actually had quite a high income. Now, I utilize the "take care of the savings first" strategy and then I don't really sweat the rest. I routinely save $8k or more/month and I spend whatever I want with the rest of my money after expenses. 

When your income gets to a point where you can save what you want comfortably, then start loosening up the purse-strings for life's luxuries. Until then, keep up your good attitude and mindset and you'll for sure reach your goals!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I have a feeling that a large proportion of people posting on a finance forum are INTJ, or close to it.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> I would like to retire by 50. I decided today that I think 45 would be nice to retire at. Anything before 45 is too young, and anything after 50 is pushing it.
> 
> And I don't know how correct I am, so maybe someone can point it out if I'm misguided, but I believe to retire comfortably at 45 years of age, earning 6% yoy, I would need to invest about $2000/month for the next 24 years. And I can't afford to save $2000/month. I can save maybe a little more than half that. $1200 if I am lucky.
> 
> ...


It doesn't get better with a higher income. I used to think the same way. _If only_ I could make x more a month, I could do so much more. I could retire earlier. A few months later after a big raise exceeding that amount, I am again saying to myself, _if only_ I made x more a month... 

Retiring at 45 is a little unrealistic. You'll be bored out of your mind. Consider in your calcuations that at 50 you can retire and supplement with part time work.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think its a sort of money itch which i dont know if its a good thing or a bad thing?Because it would seemed to me impossiable to ever scratch.

If one does say accomplish the goal of early retirement and say reaches a nest egg of a million or 2 million.....then what do you do after that?I have the same goal as kaejs(early retirement)

Do you go for the next plateau?its alomst like being anarexia eh?Your peers would look @ you and not be able to understand.

Im fascinated by wealth building more than the actual money or pleasures...anybody else like that?When you see dividend checks doesnt it feel good?i like that feeling way more than i would get buying things.

And maybe its not guilt as much as not "getting" that rush of building?i gotta be honest its kind like a drug.....maybe thats it kaejs...what do you think?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

*twowheeled*

I don't think retiring at 45 is unrealistic, I think it is difficult. And maybe I won't make it. Or maybe I will make it and be bored and go back to work like you suggested. At least I will have the option if I reach that point, though.

Also, you make $10k/month, IIRC. That is 5x more than I make. I disagree with you about the "if only I could make x more per month" theory.

I just received a raise and you know what I did? Nothing. I increased my Employee Share Purchase Plan and my expenses actually decreased due to my auto insurance.

In your scenario, you are assuming the person receiving a higher income will lack discipline, or that by making a greater income, they will spend lavishly - which I do not and would not. 

*donald*

As always, everything you have said is true.

I just like building wealth, and it is exciting to see dividends roll in, your net worth increase, etc.

It's definitely an addiction and to say that it's not an addiction would be denial.

When I look at money, I rarely look at it in terms of what it can buy. I used to look at money in terms of its ability to purchase items, but now... 99% of the time I look at it in terms of how much more can I make with x amount.

It's funny. I worked the maximum allowable amount of overtime at my job last week (which is only 10 hours) and everyone thought I was crazy. I was the only one. Someone asked me "What are you going to do with that extra money?" to which I replied in a humble, straight faced manner; "Re-invest it in BMO. Basically, I get the chance to increase my overtime earnings if BMO does well, which is likely, and I've just guaranteed myself a $10 annual raise for the rest of my life that also has the ability to compound and increase over time."

Oh, boy.. the looks I get 

The response is the same every time, too. "What can you get for $10?"



They miss the point completely....


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I know what you mean,i moved out of a very nice house last yr and went into a very cheap rental,i use to pay about 15 hun in mortgage payments and i could handle the house and all the bills that came with it no problem,on top of that i sold for a excellent profit and every yr since about 28 my income and business is rising....Most of my friends would in my position "trade up" i went the other way and traded down....its like im completely shunning the proper order of things.....everything from my "inside" is working but to look @ my situation from the outside my peers think ive lost it.

I told a few of my buddies about stocks and my aggressive plan in spending about half my income in investments.....they think ive ''lost it" and think im crazy and lets face it you cant show off a portfolio so its like a hidden thing if that makes sense......


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

donald said:


> I told a few of my buddies about stocks and my aggressive plan in spending about half my income in investments.....they think ive ''lost it" and think im crazy and lets face it you cant show off a portfolio so its like a hidden thing if that makes sense......


Nothing wrong with it at all.

I throw 40% of my gross pay into my employee share purchase plan. People think I'm nuts, too.

People also wonder why I wear the same sweater everyday. The truth is that I just don't care enough to go buy a new one, and I don't have a problem wearing the same one everyday. 

Only downside is chicks don't dig it. But they're too complicated, anyway


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

If they saw your account balance they would probably dig it, and volunteer to spend it for you.

My biggest expense is Lululemon. And I've personally never bought a single thing from there. I should've listened to the FW and bought LULU stock when she said it was gonna be big, at $15 a share.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

ISTJ here. But I am who I am, not a set of letters.

Similar situation to KaeJ, as far as employer, budget and everything goes. But I'm not afraid to go to Moores and get some nice duds every once in a while. Eat spaghetti every night though. I'm not sure how you can afford to put 40% in the share purchase plan. I guess I probably spend more on rent.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

This is coming from someone who did the whole stock options dance in the past. I do not feel it's wise to put so much into your own employer. You can and will eventually move on to another employer and then will have the hassle of getting your money out. I try to keep financial matters in my own court, I make the decisions and there is no connection to my employer except when they deposit my paycheque. That way if the job ends then the connection ends at the same time and we both move on.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

I don't know how it works with BMO, but getting money out of the TD plan is fairly quick and painless.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Quick and painless with BMO as well.

You log in online, sell your shares, and you're done.

Or you can do it manually by calling the HR number (may have to go this route if you do not want to sell your shares as soon as you leave the company). No big deal.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> *twowheeled*
> 
> I don't think retiring at 45 is unrealistic, I think it is difficult. And maybe I won't make it. Or maybe I will make it and be bored and go back to work like you suggested. At least I will have the option if I reach that point, though.
> 
> ...


I've been there too.. I started at $13/hr and I was still thinking "if only" back then the same way I do today. The only thing that changed for me is my goals got bigger. Instead of retiring at 50 now I want to retire by 40. If only I had a bit more, I could retire at 35, pay off a house in less than 5 years, get a few rental properties/investments to live off of. 

I don't spend my money very lavishly either. A few weeks ago I saw a really good opportunity in the stock market and was angry that I only had $10k to invest at the time. I turned around and made 35% in 2 months on that investment. I'm sure most people would think $10k is a hefty investment and that a $3500 is fantastic. All I can think about is what if I had put in $30k or $50k. I would have enough return to put a downpayment on a house.

Also consider 45 years old is probably around half your life. Can you really play golf/ go fishing/ sit around the house for 35-40 more years without working at all?


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I'm trying to pull off retirement by 45... my wife will likely continue to work, so really I guess I could be considered a "kept man"... though I would like to think that by managing our investments and dividend income, I would be pulling my weight financially speaking.

A big, juicy income is helpful to accumulate a retirement fund, no doubt. But in today's world, it is much easier to control ones expenses... between my wife and I, we pull in around $7500 monthly. Between two people, not spectacular income by any means... but we keep our expenses at around $3000 a month... this includes a mortgage in Vancouver. With this mortgage soon to be paid off, our savings rate will be approaching the ridiculous. With our lifestyle, we cannot help but save several thousand a month... and it adds up quickly. The temptation to reward ourselves for our responsible ways is always there - I would love an certain german sports coupe, my wife wants to build a cottage on our island property.... but as nice as these things would be, complete financial independance at an early age is the ultimate for us. 

It is hard, and takes some sacrifice, but it can be done. Just how badly do you want it?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't think it's realistic for all Canadian high school grads to move to N Alberta for employment. I also don't imagine that when those kids are projecting their incomes, they are envisaging working in the oil and gas sector.

It would be great if these kids could pull it off and make those incomes. It would imply huge productivity growth. I just don't think it's likely, as productivity just doesn't move that quickly. Some will get to 90k+, but that is the same as it has been for previous generations. It's just not feasible for all high school grads to make it to the top 5% of incomes.

One hypothesis for this expectation might be children basing their salary expectations on what their parents make. Presumably many high school graduates these days are the children of 50-something parents in their prime earning years. Also, it might be that children have no idea what market incomes are like. I mean, who tells these kids what to expect?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> ...my wife wants to build a cottage on our island property....


That seems like an alternate form of equity? Why not?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

andrewf said:


> ...Also, it might be that children have no idea what market incomes are like. I mean, who tells these kids what to expect?


My youngest son worked part-time at The Keg during his days at Western. He was making $55k. When he graduated, the best offer was $35k in Toronto. So he stayed in London and worked full-time at The Keg. Then he took a job in Toronto and got a transfer for part-time at a Toronto Keg. So he was making $80k and saved like crazy to buy a house and car before he got married. He is on his second house now and he leases cars. But he got a great start.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

kcowan said:


> That seems like an alternate form of equity? Why not?


You are right of course... building a cabin in the woods makes so much more sense than buying a depreciating asset like a sports car... my desire to buy a $80000 Audi is probably the most ludicrous desire I have ever had in my life... the logical part of my brain knows this, yet I still desire it... dumb, dumb, dumb.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Audi's are hot. My girlfriend would leave me for one in a heartbeat.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> You are right of course... building a cabin in the woods makes so much more sense than buying a depreciating asset like a sports car... my desire to buy a $80000 Audi is probably the most ludicrous desire I have ever had in my life... the logical part of my brain knows this, yet I still desire it... dumb, dumb, dumb.


I had an Audi couple years ago, theses "luxury" cars are money trap. Now i am the proud owner of a brand new Korean car !

These two books changed my views about car... and wine 

http://www.amazon.ca/Stop-Acting-Rich-Millionaire/dp/0470482559/ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.ca/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

Oilers82 said:


> When your income gets to a point where you can save what you want comfortably, then start loosening up the purse-strings for life's luxuries. Until then, keep up your good attitude and mindset and you'll for sure reach your goals!


wise words


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I had a dream I was riding a grizzly bear down a mountain and whipping it with a rattlesnake. Trying to figure out what it means.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

ddkay: I'm not sure. But I'm not so sure you want to know what it means either...


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

ddkay said:


> I had a dream I was riding a grizzly bear down a mountain and whipping it with a rattlesnake. Trying to figure out what it means.


Oh, that doesn't bode well for the markets


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

larry81 said:


> I had an Audi couple years ago, theses "luxury" cars are money trap. Now i am the proud owner of a brand new Korean car !


I had a BMW Convertible. Best car I ever had. Now I have a used Ford Escape. My ego is stronger now. Plus it is AWD so handles like the BMW but at a cost of more gas.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

kcowan said:


> now i have a used ford escape. My ego is stronger now.


rotfl


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Plus* it is AWD so handles like the BMW* but at a cost of more gas.


False.

How can a domestic soccer SUV feel the same as a BMW convertible?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The important thing is that he is content with a car that cost a half or third of the other. That's what you call maximizing your consumer surplus.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> False.
> 
> How can a domestic soccer SUV feel the same as a BMW convertible?


Don't knock it until you have tried it. Granted the BMW wins on cornering/turning circle, but that little Escape hugs the road. An unexpected bonus!


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

^ Proof cars handle better than 99% of the population could care about anyways.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Don't knock it until you have tried it. Granted the BMW wins on cornering/turning circle, but that little Escape hugs the road. An unexpected bonus!


I've driven many BMW's and I have driven a 4 and a 6 cyl Ford Escape. 

I am not knocking the Escape as a vehicle, I am just saying they don't feel the same to me.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I've driven many BMW's and I have driven a 4 and a 6 cyl Ford Escape.
> 
> I am not knocking the Escape as a vehicle, I am just saying they don't feel the same to me.


Were they AWD?


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## bpcrally (Sep 12, 2010)

AWD may not have anything to do with its handling.. Most cars arnt full time AWD anyways and have it more so for getting you unstuck. Honda for example is primarly FWD until the wheels spin, then it clicks in to awd. And the AWD wont come on at higher speeds.

Where subaru is an all time awd.. I'm not sure what system ford uses, but if its not an all time, handling isnt going to be all that different vs fwd.. and thats only if you've got it floored through corners anyways.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Were they AWD?


To be completely honest with you - I am not sure.

But to be honest again - I don't think it matters. The BMW felt better than the Escape.

As I said, I am not saying the Escape is garbage, I am just pointing out that this is an apples to oranges scenario. I am not biased and I wouldn't even choose a BMW as a car if I had the money to buy one. That being said, I would not choose an Escape, either.

They do feel different and I prefer the BMW's I have driven (all of them, even older models) to a Ford Escape.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I will pick a SUV over a BMW Convertible any day.It nearly killed me to get in the darn thing , so low and killer on the back.Once you get older you get more practical 
I bought my parents the 2010 AWD Escape with all the bells and whistles last year ,my Dad really likes it and he has driven Range Rovers /Land Rover Discovery all his life.But my Dad drives the speed limit ,goes to Doctor appointments or to the grocery store.
We have the 2010 Ford Flex Limited , I love that one so much until My sister in law showed up last week with her 2011 Expedition Limited now my car seems like a piece of crap lol


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

Escapes are mostly fwd, the awd only kicks in when needed though 2005 and before you could select full time 4x4 as long as the awd option was on it, they're not meant to be very sporty, mines alright but I will probably not buy another one after this one is toast.... beamers (IMO) are a waste of money... you can buy other makes/models and get similar performance with easier/cheaper maintenance. BMW's have too many parts only available through their dealerships so even if you can do the maintenance yourself you have to buy the parts through them (usually not cheap) . They do drive very nicely though and have that prestige factor, the ones I've seen are fairly reliable as well considering my friends drive the snot out of them.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

4WD not AWD ,not quite sure if any difference


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

many new AWD cars are mostly FWD's and the AWD only kick in when a tire starts spinning... 4x4 usually means all 4 tires are engaged to drive the vehicle... different manufactures use the terms differently though, one just need to know what your getting when you buy..myself I wish i had the option to select the full time 4x4 because when my awd kicks in (rarley) it can be annoying.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

My understanding was that AWD means all 4 wheel drive all the time, and you have no control, Like in Audi's. 4WD means FWD with rears kicking in automatically when needed, again no control, like Ford Escape. 4x4 is selectable RWD or full time AWD, like in many pickups.

I've never driven a Bimmer but I can tell you the 6 cylinder AWD Escape is nothing to write home about, in both cornering and power.


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

Yeah I have the 6 cyl awd escape..nothing spectacular but it isn't advertised as so either......It is a decent vehicle for a daily driver...not much leg room in the back seat though and uncomfortable to sleep in the back with the rear seats folded down unless your fairly short. I drove to Victoria and back from Ontario..awesome drive everyone should try it when you get the chance... even the prairies if you stop in the right spots!!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

marina628 said:


> We have the 2010 Ford Flex Limited , I love that one so much until My sister in law showed up last week with her 2011 Expedition Limited now my car seems like a piece of crap lol


I rented a Flex. It reminded me of a Lincoln Town Car with an extra foot of headroom.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

*Here we go again...*

Like someone who needs to attend AA meetings or is going through withdrawal, I am on a guilt trip again.

I wasn't going to revive this thread again, but so be it.

I spent $20 last night and now I've spent my entire Saturday sitting around doing nothing. I could go out, but I just don't want to feel guilty about spending the money. I feel like I've spent too much already.

My billing cycle for my Visa ends on the 27th of every month. Right now it is sitting at $520. This means I have spent $520 this month and i still have 8 days to go before my next billing cycle and the gas in my truck is getting low.

I just feel like that is WAY too much to be spending in 22 days.

520/22 = $23.64/day

Does anyone think a financial advisor would help if I went and saw one? a fee based one and just went for a single hour just to lay some stuff out on the table and get an opinion?

I mean, for this $520, I could have got the iPhone 4S, or some new suits for work. Instead, I have nothing to show for except a haircut. I hate it when I have nothing to show for my spending.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

What kind of stuff did you spend the $520 on? If it's going out with friends or on a date, it's money well spent. As you will find out as you get older, life experiences are priceless. However if you're just buying stuff without really needing or wanting it, then you've just wasted money.

When I was your age, I spent most of my money doing stuff with my friends. I wouldn't trade those experiences for any money ... and i refuse to feel guilty about spending that money.

Not sure what a Financial Advisor would do for you. You already know the importance of financial management. It's just a matter of having your own plan and sticking to it. Stick to your goals and have fun in life ... after all, that's what it's all about.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

mind_business said:


> What kind of stuff did you spend the $520 on?


Last nights transactions are not yet accounted for. All of the food purchases are with friends. But that's what I hate the most. I feel like I'm just throwing my money in the toilet! 

The purchase at smoke and gifts is usually not that big, but, I thought I would try some new stuff, so I spent a little more. It's usually $16 every 2 months. I spent double this time.

Date Description Debit Credit Balance 
Nov 18, 2011	MCDONALD'S MISSISSAUG *9.82* $494.56 
Nov 17, 2011	UPS* MONCTON *66.83* $484.74 
Nov 15, 2011	BURGER KING MISSISSAUG *8.80* $417.91 
Nov 15, 2011	EXTREME PITA MISSISSAUG *10.60* $409.11 
Nov 14, 2011	NETFLIX *7.99* $398.51 
Nov 10, 2011	PAYMENT - THANK YOU 812.66	$390.52 
Nov 10, 2011	THE BARBER'S CHAIR MISSISSAUG *27.00* $1,203.18 
Nov 07, 2011	PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG *49.96* $1,176.18 
Nov 07, 2011	TACO BELL MISSISSAUG *19.95* $1,126.22 
Nov 07, 2011	SUBWAY MISSISSAUG *10.61* $1,106.27 
Nov 03, 2011	SMOKE & GIFTS BRAMPTON *33.69* $1,095.66 
Nov 02, 2011	WENDY'S STORE MISSISSAUG *4.58* $1,061.97 
Oct 31, 2011	PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG *83.32* $1,057.39 
Oct 31, 2011	PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG *46.75* $974.07 
Oct 31, 2011	MCDONALD'S MISSISSAUG *10.38* $927.32 
Oct 31, 2011	PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG *23.51* $916.94 
Oct 31, 2011	MR. SUBMARINE MISSISSAUG *6.77	* $893.43 
Oct 28, 2011	MTO MISSISSAUG *74.00* $886.66


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Hey kaejs,none of my business but what was money like growing up for you?I think maybe you should root out why you carry guilt when spending(i dont think you spend that much).

Dont think of money being so scarce,you got your entire life ahead of you and your in the top 1 % for young twentys.I read a article in the globe the other day-average net worth of a canadian under 35 is 3k,im not saying you want to compare but your already saving 40% of your paychecks i think i read in a previous post.

You might be a millionaire one day and still feel guilty,dont lose sight of the big picture,Dont beat yourself up so much.You can "do" both spending and saving.Its not healthy to focus over dollars and cents,life is bigger than that.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

donald said:


> Hey kaejs,none of my business but what was money like growing up for you?


Money was OK, I guess.

I didn't have all the toys, but I wasn't poor, either... if that's what you mean?

My parents didn't drive Mercedes, but they each had a car. When I was really young (a kid, almost before I can remember) I lived in an apartment. Around 10 years of age, a townhouse, and maybe as of 18 years old a real house (detached) with garage and such.

So, definitely not "poor".

I think maybe I just have high expectations? 
$600k would get me everything I want. Is that a high expectation? 
I don't know.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

donald said:


> I read a article in the globe the other day-average net worth of a canadian under 35 is 3k


Do you have this article? I can't find it.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Nah not high expectations,think the key with money is learning to control it instead of it controlling you.

I dont think you should feel guilty having a big mac or watever.

Reason i asked about money growing up is because we all carry a blueprint and are shaped by early expierences how we relate to it or from circumstances.its a interesting thing....the study of physc and money.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

If I were to trend your spending habits, one of the trends would be 'when buying one restaurant meal in the day, you're most likely going to buy two of your meals on that day'. The only exception was on Nov 2nd. Do you plan it this way?

I don't mean to nit-pick on your spending, but I'm curious ... why do you have three PetroCan purchases on the same day ($83.32, $46.75 and $23.51)? Gas purchases? Smokes (bigggest waste of money)?

Date Description Debit Credit Balance 
Nov 18, 2011 MCDONALD'S MISSISSAUG 9.82 $494.56 
Nov 17, 2011 UPS* MONCTON 66.83 $484.74 
Nov 15, 2011 BURGER KING MISSISSAUG 8.80 $417.91 
Nov 15, 2011 EXTREME PITA MISSISSAUG 10.60 $409.11 
Nov 14, 2011 NETFLIX 7.99 $398.51 
Nov 10, 2011 PAYMENT - THANK YOU 812.66 $390.52 
Nov 10, 2011 THE BARBER'S CHAIR MISSISSAUG 27.00 $1,203.18 
Nov 07, 2011 PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG 49.96 $1,176.18 
Nov 07, 2011 TACO BELL MISSISSAUG 19.95 $1,126.22 
Nov 07, 2011 SUBWAY MISSISSAUG 10.61 $1,106.27 
Nov 03, 2011 SMOKE & GIFTS BRAMPTON 33.69 $1,095.66 
Nov 02, 2011 WENDY'S STORE MISSISSAUG 4.58 $1,061.97 
Oct 31, 2011 PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG 83.32 $1,057.39 
Oct 31, 2011 PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG 46.75 $974.07 
Oct 31, 2011 MCDONALD'S MISSISSAUG 10.38 $927.32 
Oct 31, 2011 PETROCAN- MISSISSAUG 23.51 $916.94 
Oct 31, 2011 MR. SUBMARINE MISSISSAUG 6.77 $893.43 
Oct 28, 2011 MTO MISSISSAUG 74.00 $886.66


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

KaeJS, you are light years ahead of where I was at your age. I am now 39 and within 5 years of retiring. You have TIME on your side. With your innate frugality and your investment savvy, you WILL get to where you want to be.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

mind_business said:


> If I were to trend your spending habits, one of the trends would be 'when buying one restaurant meal in the day, you're most likely going to buy two of your meals on that day'. The only exception was on Nov 2nd. Do you plan it this way?
> 
> I don't mean to nit-pick on your spending, but I'm curious ... why do you have three PetroCan purchases on the same day ($83.32, $46.75 and $23.51)? Gas purchases? Smokes (bigggest waste of money)?


No offense taken.

I don't buy food twice on the same day, it's just the way it is posted to my Visa account. If I get food on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, they may all show up together under Thursday's date. Same thing goes for the gasoline.

I only buy gasoline at gas stations, no smokes, no food, nothing else.

The reason there was so much gasoline purchasing on October 31 is because I drove quite far and drove 2 cars to place one car in winter storage on that day. I had to fuel up my truck and my car. In addition, my car can only take 94 Octane gasoline (about 15cents more per litre). Also, this explains the first purchase on October 28, I spent $74.00 for a license plate sticker at the Ministry of Transportation.

The smoke shop is because I like to enjoy the occasional cigar. (when I can tolerate the weather outside). Yes, smoking is a waste of money, but mine is only about a $150-$200 habit per year, if that.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

My CC has always been $500 at least on gas and food etc. Eating out I think you can easily knock in half by choosing the daily value meals, but we're only talking ~$30/month savings by the looks of that statement. Guilt-wise though you can spend half as much on the value meals. I know people who refuse to eat out, but personally I spend nearly as much to make my own food. Short of shaving your head yourself, biking to work and cooking from scratch, not much you can really save here. You have more potential to increase income


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Is your goal 600k to retire on? My goal is $1.8 million, what I figure I'll need to live purely off the income and leave the capital. 

I bet my credit card statement would make you feel better. I don't even use it myself and it goes gas, lulu, tim's, gas, lulu, tim's. 

My frugal tip is use the $20 to buy hair clippers and have free cuts the rest of your life. As a bonus your head is like a big Velcro ball.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> No offense taken.
> 
> I don't buy food twice on the same day, it's just the way it is posted to my Visa account. If I get food on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, they may all show up together under Thursday's date. Same thing goes for the gasoline.
> 
> ...


You're taking all the fun out of my nit-picking  

My final conclusion is that you must be an alien ... in a good way. Spending under control at your age is unnatural. Keep it up and you'll be in a position to retire by 40. Me, I'll be in that same position at 55 (in 10 years) ... I hope.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> My CC has always been $500 at least on gas and food etc. Eating out I think you can easily knock in half by choosing the daily value meals, but we're only talking ~$30/month savings by the looks of that statement. Guilt-wise though you can spend half as much on the value meals. I know people who refuse to eat out, but personally I spend nearly as much to make my own food. Short of shaving your head yourself, biking to work and cooking from scratch, not much you can really save here. You have more potential to increase income


I bought some high quality clippers at London Drugs 8 years ago and haven't paid for a haircut since. Saved a ton of dough over that span.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

jcgd said:


> Is your goal 600k to retire on? My goal is $1.8 million, what I figure I'll need to live purely off the income and leave the capital.
> 
> I bet my credit card statement would make you feel better. I don't even use it myself and it goes gas, lulu, tim's, gas, lulu, tim's.


No, no. $600k would just solve everything I am seeking to acquire. New house, new car, new phone, new computer, new suit (all paid off).

I haven't worked out my retirement goals/amount yet. There are too many variables. I am single with no kids. What if that changes? Then my entire formula is going to change more than likely. I think 1.8M is a bit more than I would need, though. 1.8M is a lot of money.

As for your credit card, it seems like you have a girlfriend or a daughter


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Well Kae, since you asked for our opinions, here is mine. I have reviewed your CC statement and I see a few concerns:

1. most of the fast food you are eating is very harmful to your health. I bet if you were to get a full physical at a doctor they would tell you your cholestorol and blood pressure are too high. eating at burger king and MCDs is something you should really cut out and preserve your health. of all the places you ate at, the only ones I would consider are pita pit and subway. and even then I would suggest taking a close look at what you are choosing. physical health is important and the worst food in fast food places tends to add up the most.

2. are you buying drinks and chips when you go to subway etc? that stuff normally adds about $3 to your meal ticket. don't buy it. just buy what you went there for: the sub. all that extra stuff will drain your wallet.

3. MTO, gas and haircut are important life needs for you and non-negotiable, so no worries there.

4. do you smoke? like lottery tix, smoking is another money pit and as I said above about fast food, is very harmful to your health. you are causing yourself harm. I suppose you're getting to justify this by saying it's one of your few pleasures, but I had to comment as I noticed it on your cc bill. you're burning your money for something that not only leaves your wallet empty but also harms your health. nothing is more annoying to other people than a smoker's cough every 2 minutes.

5. your comment :"New house, new car, new phone, new computer, new suit (all paid off)." leads me to believe that you believe you need material possessions to be satisfied. This is the enemy of frugality. You must be in control of your finances and of your desires. You are young and so you don't see it, but all those items you listed are consumer items (with the possible exception of the suit which is probably the most worthwhile item on your list) that need CONSTANT replacement through your life. They are very expensive and are money pits. If you think you're wasting money now, just wait until you start getting more aggressive about renewing that stuff. Remember, a new car or phone is only new on the day you buy it. Next day, it's yesterday's news and society's wasteful ways will leave you desiring the new version. It is my firm belief that you must break free from this desire to keep up with "everyone" and have expensive stuff to be cool or whatever. Trust me Kae, *NOBODY CARES*. They treat you the exact same way whether your cell phone and cars are old or new. It does not matter and 5 years from now it will all be in the landfil and scrap metal baler and you'll be desiring the newest junk. And your pockets will be empty.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

1. I don't want to sound like a fool, but I don't care all that much about my health from eating food or smoking. I'm going to die eventually. There are people that do everything right and end up dying early and then there are people that do everything wrong and live forever. I'll take my chances.

Also, every other day there is a new study about how something is good or bad for you. Just eat.

2. Sometimes I get the chips and the drink. It depends how I'm feeling. I usually always get a drink.

3. N/A

4. Smoking isn't that costly and I have never gotten any type of a cough from smoking. I have the occasional cigar, pipe tobacco, and shisha, but I don't smoke cigarettes. Maybe once a year I'll also visit my friend Mary Jane just for old times sake. (I would actually love to get a medical marijuana card for my back aches and migraines, but I'm afraid my doctor will just decline my request  )

5. Yes, I know they are all material items. But i think you missed the point. Once those are paid off, I will have lots of disposable income to spend on experiences, friends, having fun. You know? Once I've got the house... my disposable income surges.

I don't care about a huge house. I care about disposable income. What I really want to do is stop worrying about purchasing a home.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I would think someone would feel guilty about spending if the money was completely wasteful or if it was intended for another purpose.

Most of this money seems to be going toward a normal lifestyle. If you hadn't purchased any gas, would you be happier not going anywhere in your car? I'm guessing not.

Do you have financial goals? Ie save $X per month for whatever? If not, maybe set some and then don't feel guilty about extra money that gets spent on whatever.

The other question is income - does this spending mean you are going into debt? I'm guessing not on this one as well.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

My goal is to consistently save $1,200/month.

I am accomplishing this. Sometimes it varies. I may save $1100 one month, $1300 the next. But I always make sure I balance it out to roughly $1200. I just feel like $1200 isn't that much. 

What can you even do with $1200, really? 
When you don't own a home, $1200 is just an extra $1200 towards a home.

And no, I am not in debt of any kind.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> Like someone who needs to attend AA meetings or is going through withdrawal, I am on a guilt trip again.
> 
> 
> I spent $20 last night and now I've spent my entire Saturday sitting around doing nothing. I could go out, but I just don't want to feel guilty about spending the money. I feel like I've spent too much already.
> ...


I don't mean this to be disrespectful or to be offensive. I don't think it's a financial advisor that's going to help you. If you're feeling guilt over these really small incidents, and it's seems like you may be obsessing over saving, at the expense of living. 



KaeJS said:


> 1. I don't want to sound like a fool, but I don't care all that much about my health from eating food or smoking. I'm going to die eventually. There are people that do everything right and end up dying early and then there are people that do everything wrong and live forever. I'll take my chances.
> 
> 
> 5. Yes, I know they are all material items. But i think you missed the point. Once those are paid off, I will have lots of disposable income to spend on experiences, friends, having fun. You know? Once I've got the house... my disposable income surges.
> ...


I find it really ironic that you are so focused on the future retirement, and making sure that your financial house is in order, but yet, don't worry about your health. You could use the same argument for finances, you'll die anyways, so why plan so hard for it. 

Your point #5 is the one I think has the biggest misconception. Once you have those things paid off, there will be something else that come, your disposale income doesn't go up by that much. I think you're doing yourself an injustice by being so hard on yourself, and not enjoying yourself while you are younger. There will always be things that you need to spend on as you enter different phases of your life. It is a real shame that you're waiting until you have more money to enjoy your self. That time may not come. I do believe that if you have no debt (which you don't), you're saving money (which you are), and you spend responsible (which you do), then you should really try to find a more balanced approach.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I actually think saving $1200 monthly on your own is impressive. Back in my single days its probably close to what I could manage. But one day you very well may meet and marry Mrs. KaeJS - with luck she shares the same philosophy on finances as yourself... then watch as your savings rate doubles, and likely triples from where it is now.

There are other threads on the subject, but if you think kids aren't in your future, embrace the DINK lifestyle and financial indepedance will be yours.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

KaeJS: I admire your financial management, and especially at such a young age. At the same time, I think you're being too hard on yourself, and no offense, but a bit unrealistic for this moment in time.

From all your posts in various threads, it sounds like you're basically saving 50% of your after-tax income, which is incredible. There are people making 2 to 3 times what you do and still not saving that much. 

But you've mentioned you'd like to retire early and you'd like to own a home, and both may not be possible right now even if you saved 100% of your current income. I'm not saying your goals can't happen, because I truly believe they will. I think you've got a great head on your shoulders. But I think you'll find those goals progressing more from your earning increases as your career progresses, than your actual savings rate, which is already incredibly high.

Or, think of it as an investment on the memories you'll produce. A night out with the boys might cost you $50 now for gas and food and roaming around the city. But imagine what it will cost in 20 years when you're all married with kids. You'll be lucky to find a babysitter for $50, let alone the time to connect with all your friends. 

No matter how much you earn or save, you can't buy back these years of your life. It's important to save for the future, but don't go so far as to sacrifice your youth for it.

Edit: And I would re-read TRM's post as well to make sure that what you are aiming for is what you really want, and not just about other people's perceptions of you.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Just thinking further on this, I'm also wondering if you have a plan in terms of achieving these goals, or if it's just a soon-as-possible kind of thing. 

Think of it like a road trip across Canada. You wouldn't drive as far as you could until you passed out at the wheel or pulled over at some shady spot and slept for a few hours before jumping back into the car. You'd burn out real quickly and be miserable the entire trip.

It'd be better to map out realistically how far you can drive in a day, planning on stopping into certain spots you definitely want to hit and spend some extra time at. 

The first option will get you across the country a hell of a lot faster and cheaper. But then again, what was the point if you didn't even enjoy the trip?

Figure out where you want to go, what you want to do, and drive at your own pace. Don't worry about how fast others are driving or whether they're speeding by you.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

financialnoob said:


> Just thinking further on this, I'm also wondering if you have a plan in terms of achieving these goals, or if it's just a soon-as-possible kind of thing.
> 
> Don't worry about how fast others are driving or whether they're speeding by you.


As soon as possible thing. My goal is to acquire as much wealth as possible as quickly as possible. Money grows on money. The more I save now, the easier it will be later.

I always think of those chart between a 20 year old saving x amount vs a 30 year old saving x+500 amount, earning the same interest rate. The 30 year old never catches up. 

And I have to worry about how fast others are driving. I can't control it. I wish I didn't care, but I do. 

It's like religion - I don't believe in any God at all. But I _WISH_ I did. My brain just won't allow me to do so.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

So if it's about getting there as fast as possible, my are....

How do you know when you get there ?
What re you going to do when you get therE?

Also, I do think the most important part about getting there is often the journey, not just the end point, because really, toucan alway move the end point. If you are enjoying the journey along the way, and not feeling that you are missing out or guilty for sme enjoyment, then I say continue on, you're doing great. If you feeling like your sacrificing all and just waiting until 'youve made it', you may not realize when you get there.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

If life was all about the destination, none of us would be alive.


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## randomthoughts (May 23, 2010)

Like you, I save about 50% of my income (not even including substantial pension contributions that are deducted from my pay). That practice has served me well and I think will serve you well. I'm about 10 years older than you and can tell you where it leads. No mortgage, no debt and still saving half of the income - except it's easier because there are less expenses.

What I do is set aside some money in the budget monthly and annually for fun. If I don't use it, it gets rolled forward FOR FUN, not rolled into savings. (When I had a mortgage, I'd roll half of it forward, and apply the other half to my mortgage.) You don't even have to spend it if you don't want to but it remains earmarked for fun, reassuring you with its presence that if you NEED some fun, it's there.

This has two effects: eventually, you have enough in the Fun Reserve that you think "$50 off the top of my $x won't even make a dent". X is different for different people, for me it was quite a lot.

The second thing is that you tend to spend the money more thoughtfully. Instead of frittering away money here and there, you make substantial purchases that improve your life in some way. It's much more satisfying.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Likely living in the GTA has skewed your perception of money. I know I felt much richer when I was living in Ottawa, and I can only imagine how rich I'd feel if I lived in the maritimes or small-town Ontario. 

Like many have said, you're doing way better than most already. One way of looking at it is that by living at home you're saving $800+ a month already. As long as you spend less than that, you're still saving more than if you had your own place and weren't eating and never left the house. 

One thing I'm hoping to do and would recommend is bank your raises and bonuses. My savings targets are similar to yours, and right now it's a challenge, but I figure it will get incrementally easier each time my pay increases. 

I'm also going to try and cut way back on my dining/drinking out expenses which will be a challenge when I go home for christmas. In August and September I spent an average of about $700 just on eating/drinking out which I find is insane.

You're on the right track, but it's also a matter of perspective, don't forget to have fun along the way.


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