# FBI raids Trump !



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Blockbuster news.

A large number of FBI agents descended on Trump's Mara Lago resort, in what is describes as looking for "classified material".









FBI search at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home tied to classified material, sources say


In a lengthy statement Monday night, Trump said, “They even broke into my safe!”




www.nbcnews.com


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I wonder if the Dump is gonna to sum up his generals (as loyal as those to Hitler) to come to his aid as "45th president" ... he forgot the prefix "ex". Well at least, he wasn't dragged out of Mar-a-Lago in cuffs ... or just not yet from anywhere. He's too busy flushing secret codes down the toilets. Ho hum ...


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> Ho hum ...


Perhaps, but as always they underestimate Trump and his ability to twist a situation to his advantage. Essentially, he was the one that broke this news as he wanted to get ahead of the media's message. He fashioned it as a huge over-reach by the FBI and the government who are "out to get him". He implies that if they can do this to a former president, they can do it to you. This only furthers his chances in the next election. People should stop thinking this guy is dumb.

ltr


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

It really depends on what it leads to.
If it is something related to Jan 6 - then it won't help him.

If nothing comes out of it or all they charge him with is taking documents, then it will work to his advantage and prove weaponization of justice system for political purposes.

As of now there is too little information to determine what's going to happen.
One thing I don't understand is why the new thread. Isn't there like 5-6 Trump related threads already?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> Perhaps, but as always they underestimate Trump and his ability to twist a situation to his advantage. Essentially, he was the one that broke this news as he wanted to get ahead of the media's message. He fashioned it as a huge over-reach by the FBI and the government who are "out to get him". He implies that if they can do this to a former president, they can do it to you. This only furthers his chances in the next election. People should stop thinking this guy is dumb.
> 
> ltr


 ... of course, no underestimation of the Dump in twisting anything to his advantage given his naturally twisted little mind to begin with. Let's see if he's really the "untouchable" aka he's "above the law" where it can happen to everyone on this planet except for him ... as an ex-president.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> It really depends on what it leads to.
> If it is something related to Jan 6 - then it won't help him.
> 
> If nothing comes out of it or all they charge him with is taking documents, then it will work to his advantage and prove weaponization of justice system for political purposes.
> ...


 ... and why does he need to take those documents with him? Something to hide? Or is it acceptable to take your employer's documents with you when you leave your employment place (that you don't own of course.)? 

Hmmm, I wonder what's in that safe - probably some backup to extort somebody or maybe it's the other way around - the keep-safes (aka souvenirs) for one of the payouts? Imagine they were pics of his SO in her transparent panties, my, my.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Amazing news. Never before has there been a president as crooked and rotten as this guy.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Beaver101 said:


> ... and why does he need to take those documents with him? Something to hide? Or is it acceptable to take your employer's documents with you when you leave your employment place (that you don't own of course.)?
> 
> Hmmm, I wonder what's in that safe - probably some backup to extort somebody or maybe it's the other way around - the keep-safes (aka souvenirs) for one of the payouts? Imagine they were pics of his SO in her transparent panties, my, my.


If this goes to trial, it'd be funny if the trial judge is the same person presiding over the trial of Conrad Black.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Tostig said:


> If this goes to trial, it'd be funny if the trial judge is the same person presiding over the trial of Conrad Black.


They just announced all the raid had to do with was taking documents from white house that are wanted by the archives.
No potential of it going to trial
Just a fishing expedition


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Opinion: Trump’s truest believers have made the former president a messiah

Another word for his "believers (the hill-billies)" is "SUCKERS!!!!".

I love this comment from Gorgon Zola:



> _Jim Jones is alive and well, hanging out in Palm Beach.
> Now, as for the koolaid, well......_


 ...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump has a copy of the seach warrant. He could end the speculation by revealing it in public. He doesn't appear to want to do that.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

They waited long enough.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

True....so they must have been provided with very good information that Trump had classified material he shouldn't have.

I doubt they would have obtained a search warrant and conducted this raid looking for insignificant documents.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

It's about mishandling classified material. It's not unusual as the FBI has done this in the past: FBI, Justice Department Routinely Prosecute Misuse of Classified Documents

Likely Trump will just get off with a fine and that'll be the end of THIS issue. Still got other issues.

I mean, if he feels persecuted, maybe he should stop doing illegal things? I hear that all the time as a defense of police when they target certain ethnic groups. Except in this case, he is actually doing illegal things as opposed to being accused of it.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I feel for the FBI guys who had to do their job ... having to face a FREAK-OUT.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

bgc_fan said:


> It's about mishandling classified material. It's not unusual as the FBI has done this in the past: FBI, Justice Department Routinely Prosecute Misuse of Classified Documents
> 
> Likely Trump will just get off with a fine and that'll be the end of THIS issue. Still got other issues.
> 
> I mean, if he feels persecuted, maybe he should stop doing illegal things? I hear that all the time as a defense of police when they target certain ethnic groups. Except in this case, he is actually doing illegal things as opposed to being accused of it.


True, but like you mentioned, it is not unusual. What is unusual though is a search warrant. This was first time in history that it has happened. Previously, mishandling classified material was basically a fine. This time it was used to mount a fishing expedition, where even lawyers weren't allowed to witness the search warrant being executed. Likely this would mean that anything they found is inadmissible in court; however, it is all admissible in court of public opinion


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump's lawyers are hinting at "planted evidence", so whatever the FBI found must be significant enough for his lawyers to worry about and try to create distrust before it is released to the public. The lawyers know what it is that the FBI have seized.......so it must be troublesome for Trump.

Despite all the denials and rush to defend Trump by Republicans, Trump still refuses to make the warrant document public.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Reports the evidence contains classified information related to national security.

The security cameras are being examined to see who was moving around in the resort.

It sounds serious and Trump still hasn't released the warrant for viewing by the public.

Trump also pleaded the Fifth Amendment in a New York court in an investigation on fraudulent business loans and refuses to participate in a deposition.

If Trump is charged and found guilty of not returning classified material, he will not be able to run for any federal political office again.....including President.

The bundle of yarn in unraveling quickly for Trump.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ No wonder there were so many toilet flushings happening at the Dump's place, coincident or what?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ No wonder there were so many toilet flushings happening at the Dump's place, coincident or what?


One of the funniest Trump stories that came out back in February was that White House staff had been finding printed paper clogging up toilets.

It sounds like this moron has been flushing official documents, and clogging up the toilets!

In fact, it was in the media back in February that National Archives officials suspected that Trump was violating laws about handling government documents. Documents suspected to be classified were found among some of those documents retrieved from Mar-a-Lago. I think this article from February is useful context for what's happening today:









Maggie Haberman book: Flushed papers found clogging Trump White House toilet


Axios was provided an exclusive first look at some of Haberman's forthcoming book.




www.axios.com


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> True, but like you mentioned, it is not unusual. What is unusual though is a search warrant. This was first time in history that it has happened. Previously, mishandling classified material was basically a fine. This time it was used to mount a fishing expedition, where even lawyers weren't allowed to witness the search warrant being executed. Likely this would mean that anything they found is inadmissible in court; however, it is all admissible in court of public opinion


What do you mean the search warrant is unusual? Trump's lawyer saw the warrant. Where do you have it that they weren't allowed to witness the execution? If you're saying because his lawyer didn't watch the agents search so it's inadmissible, then you should probably take a look at search warrants being executed on suspected drug dealers where the agents just go in, bring the suspects outside and start searching the place. Seems like if the treatment is good for one, it is good for all. No one is above the law right?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ I feel for the FBI guys who had to do their job ... having to face a FREAK-OUT.


Well, Trump was in New York, so they didn't have to put up with him at least. The fact is, he doesn't believe the law applies to him, and it's been like this his whole life.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

bgc_fan said:


> What do you mean the search warrant is unusual? Trump's lawyer saw the warrant. Where do you have it that they weren't allowed to witness the execution? If you're saying because his lawyer didn't watch the agents search so it's inadmissible, then you should probably take a look at search warrants being executed on suspected drug dealers where the agents just go in, bring the suspects outside and start searching the place. Seems like if the treatment is good for one, it is good for all. No one is above the law right?


It was the first time in history it has happened for US President, and like you mentioned yourself, it wasn't the first time the FBI charged people with mishandling classified documents.
That's the very definition of 'unusual' - something that doesn't normally happen in such situation


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> It was the first time in history it has happened for US President, and like you mentioned yourself, it wasn't the first time the FBI charged people with mishandling classified documents.
> That's the very definition of 'unusual' - something that doesn't normally happen in such situation


It's also the first time in history a US President took home top secret information instead of leaving it to be archived and stored correctly. So there's that. He brought this on himself, and stop saying that he's being targeted. Name another US President who decided to bring home documents after they left office.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

It has happened previously under Reagan and Clinton administration.
And it has happened multiple times previously - simply the NARA then reaches out to recover the documents - as they supposedly did, which resulted in retrieval of 15boxes earlier this year.
It is unprecedented. Was it wrong? Depends what they found, but undeniably it is unprecedented









What past cases reveal about Trump's legal exposure following FBI raid


Following the FBI's raid on Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate, experts assess Trump's potential legal exposure related to his alleged mishandling of government documents.




abcnews.go.com


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> It has happened previously under Reagan and Clinton administration.
> And it has happened multiple times previously - simply the NARA then reaches out to recover the documents - as they supposedly did, which resulted in retrieval of 15boxes earlier this year.
> It is unprecedented. Was it wrong? Depends what they found, but undeniably it is unprecedented
> 
> ...


You missed the question, point to a former President who did the same thing before saying that somehow Trump is being targeted. It's only unprecented because Trump took the unprecented action of taking home classified documentation that he didn't return when asked.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

bgc_fan said:


> You missed the question, point to a former President who did the same thing before saying that somehow Trump is being targeted. It's only unprecented because *Trump took the unprecented action of taking home classified documentation that he didn't return when asked.*


Literally from the article, which you clearly didn't read - because why would you concern yourself with facts:

The stunning FBI raid on the former president's Florida home was related to documents that *Trump took with him when he departed Washington in January 2021, including some records the National Archives has said were marked classi*fied, sources told ABC News.

*In January 2022, Trump turned over 15 boxes of records to the National Archives*, but a small team of federal agents followed up with Trump's lawyers in the spring to inquire about additional records he may have removed from the White House. Attorneys for Trump said they were in the process of searching for documents and had been engaged in some back-and-forth communications with federal investigators, sources told ABC News.


So the documents were returned, FBI is just speculating there is more, hence the fishing expedition.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ The moron didn't need to be 'asked' as if he didn't know he couldn't remove such documents that don't belong to him in the first place. It's government's property just as it's your employer's property. The Dump was an employee of the USA government just as damianster13 is an employee of his employer. Besides, what does he need to those documents "at home" for anyways? Sell them later? Or to hide dark "secrets"? He really needs to see a shrink to clarify his head that he is an EX-president, no longer in the White House.

Now if the FBI removed his PlayBoy/Hustler magazines (paper-version), then that's a different story.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> Literally from the article, which you clearly didn't read - because why would you concern yourself with facts:
> 
> The stunning FBI raid on the former president's Florida home was related to documents that *Trump took with him when he departed Washington in January 2021, including some records the National Archives has said were marked classi*fied, sources told ABC News.
> 
> ...


The point was that you seemed to make it out to be that he is being unfairly targeted because you believe he returned everything. Unless you can show that the FBI didn't find anything, then it was a valid search. You seem to be thinking that Trump turned everything over and the FBI felt that was not the case. Given his position, I'd say there was a pretty high burden of proof before a Trump-appointed judge would sign off on a search warrant with an investigation led by a Trump appointed FBI director, meaning that it's pretty likely that he didn't return everything that was requested. 
But yeah, let's keep the Trump narrative that it's all partisan.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

bgc_fan said:


> The point was that you seemed to make it out to be that he is being unfairly targeted because you believe he returned everything. Unless you can show that the FBI didn't find anything, then it was a valid search. You seem to be thinking that Trump turned everything over and the FBI felt that was not the case. Given his position, I'd say there was a pretty high burden of proof before a Trump-appointed judge would sign off on a search warrant with an investigation led by a Trump appointed FBI director, meaning that it's pretty likely that he didn't return everything that was requested.
> But yeah, let's keep the Trump narrative that it's all partisan.


The search was valid because all the procedures were followed.
Was it targeted at the same time? - yes
Was it using FBI for political purposes? - yes.

According to CNN, they were made aware of the boxes June 8th.
Why do you think the search warrant was executed just now and not then?
The answer is simple - midterms.
DOJ doesn't get involved in investigations within 90 days of political elections. Guess in how many days there are until midterms?


This has been a Democrats tactic for a long time - they funded campaigns for far right candidates so that moderates lose in primaries, and now they politicized FBI to try to push people further to the right and divide the nation just in time for the midterms


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> The search was valid because all the procedures were followed.
> Was it targeted at the same time? - yes
> Was it using FBI for political purposes? - yes.
> 
> ...


Ahem: Statement by FBI Director James B. Comey on the Investigation of Secretary Hillary Clinton’s Use of a Personal E-Mail System — FBI

But yes, do show an occassion where the democrats used the FBI.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

You are kidding, right?

Literally yesterday

And then there is Clinton's lawyer fabricating evidence that led to 4 year Russian collusion investigation.









Michael Sussmann: Clinton lawyer 'lied to manipulate FBI over Trump'


Michael Sussmann peddled baseless claims about the Trump Organization in hope of an "October surprise".



www.bbc.com


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> You are kidding, right?
> 
> Literally yesterday
> 
> ...


You'll be happy to know that you omitted a few things which kind of counter your narrative
1. He was acquitted: Clinton campaign lawyer Michael Sussmann acquitted on charge of lying to the FBI
2. He didn't fabricate evidence. He was charged with not disclosing his connection to the Clintons.
3. The data he gave the FBI was given to him by another security expert who had worked with the FBI in the past: Clinton-Linked Lawyer Lied to FBI About Trump Tip, Jury Told (1)
4. The actual investigation happened from 2017-2019, and wasn't based on that information he provided since the FBI discounted it.

At any case are you wondering why the FBI would be interested in this case if it were true? Probably because foreign interference in an election is a federal crime.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

I am not wondering why FBI would be interested. They should be interested if there was any collusion.
Of course there wasn't, but it was good that it was investigated.

However, if you don't see a campaign lawyer going to FBI as a 'concerned citizen' without disclosing he is related to the campaign, throwing false accusations at political opponent as weaponization of FBI, then you clearly have double standards.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Personally I doubt the archives/documents narrative because the president would have the power to declassify documents and to declare them to be personal/privileged rather than of public import. It's unlikely an actual prosecution could succeed.

I think there's something much juicer afoot, and as other have said, Trump has the warrant and could make it public, but has not.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

From CNN:

"Monday's search warrant execution pertained to both the handling of classified documents and the Presidential Records Act."

So yeah, it was about documents/archives, and yes, you are right, it is unlikely prosecution was succeed and that's why it appears to be a fishing expedition









Wall Street Journal: Informant tipped off investigators about more documents at Mar-a-Lago


The FBI search of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence on Monday was prompted by a tip to investigators about the possibility of additional classified documents at the Palm Beach club, according to a Wall Street Journal report.




www.cnn.com


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

bgc_fan said:


> Well, Trump was in New York, so they didn't have to put up with him at least.


He was in NY, pleading his 5th amendment rights in state court. I wonder if the FBI planned it so they wouldn't have to deal with him.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> I am not wondering why FBI would be interested. They should be interested if there was any collusion.
> Of course there wasn't, but it was good that it was investigated.
> 
> However, if you don't see a campaign lawyer going to FBI as a 'concerned citizen' without disclosing he is related to the campaign, throwing false accusations at political opponent as weaponization of FBI, then you clearly have double standards.


Except he did it without knowledge of the campaign because they didn't trust the FBI. As from the story I linked.

_The case centered around prosecutors’ claim that Sussmann told Baker during the meeting that he was passing on the information as a concerned citizen, and not passing on behalf of any client. Algor told jurors that in actuality, Sussmann was there on behalf of two clients — the Clinton campaign and Rodney Joffe, the technology executive who oversaw research into Alfa Bank.

Sussmann lawyer Sean Berkowitz pointed out to jurors that there was conflicting information from Baker and others over the years about what Sussman said in the meeting. Berkowitz also said Sussmann was not acting on the campaign’s behalf — particularly because the campaign was mistrustful of the FBI over its well-publicized investigation into Clinton’s emails. _

And from the other story:

_Internal FBI notes identify Sussmann as a Clinton lawyer, Bosworth said. Sussmann went to the FBI without the Clinton campaign knowing, because an FBI probe would have undermined the campaign’s effort to get the press to report on the servers, the defense lawyer said. The agency delayed a press report on the server link while it investigated, Bosworth said._

Basically, he didn't think he needed to say that he was working for Clinton because the FBI already knew that.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Yeah yeah, Clinton campaign lawyer went to FBI with false accusations about her political opponent without her campaign knowing........... you still believe in Santa Claus?
You focus on him not being convicted for not stating he is Clinton campaign's lawyer. That's not the important part.

Important part is Clinton campaign weaponizing FBI by having Clinton campaign lawyer go to FBI with false accusations about political opponent


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

In 2016, Trump said:
"If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"









Man who once said "if you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth?" takes the Fifth


Trump refused to answer questions under oath in New York attorney general Letitia James' civil investigation into his business dealings




www.motherjones.com


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ A hypocrite that's one notch above everyone else, including his followers. The smarty-pant along with his likes think the rule of the law doesn't apply to him or better yet he's above the law, like a delusional untouchable. 

Btw, he also signed a law piece that extended the felony of taking classified information from one year to 5 years. 

Just a matter of time when the orange suit matches with the hair. I wonder what the number will be on that suit - probably something that starts with "666".


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Chris Wray, the current FBI director, was appointed by Trump to replace Comey, who Trump didn't like. Wray's a long time republican loyalist serving under Bush. He DOES have a history of having an actual backbone though, so he's not likely a Trump bootlicker, but also there is no way he is going along with some crackpot dem scheme.

Given the amount of approval and oversight required to get a warrant for someone like Trump, and the fact that so much of the government machinery is still folks appointed by Trump, I would be astonished if the warrant will turn out to have been mere fishing expedition, no matter how much the talking heads attempt to portray it as such. Trump could likely clear up the whole matter by "truth-tweeting" a single photograph of the warrant, but chooses not to. I think there is some cause for reflection in that.

It promises to be an interesting process.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The right wing extremists who support Trump have started threatening the judge who signed the warrant. These terrorists also appear to be organizing online, targeting not only the judge, but also FBI agents.

The real problem is that the American conservatives finally went so far right that they have nurtured and grown a significant terrorist/extremist movement. There are a huge number of extremists in the US.

The Republicans and American right wing media (Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars etc) has been radicalizing people for the last few years and growing this terrorist movement.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

AG Garland is going to make a public statement in the next few minutes.

The news takeaway is due to all the publicity and that Trump went public with the search....the DOJ has filed a motion to make public the search warrant and the inventory receipt.

AG Garland called Trump's bluff. If Trump talks about them and won't release them to the public.......the DOJ will.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

gardner said:


> Chris Wray, the current FBI director, was appointed by Trump to replace Comey, who Trump didn't like. Wray's a long time republican loyalist serving under Bush. He DOES have a history of having an actual backbone though, so he's not likely a Trump bootlicker, but also there is no way he is going along with some crackpot dem scheme.
> 
> Given the amount of approval and oversight required to get a warrant for someone like Trump, and the fact that so much of the government machinery is still folks appointed by Trump, I would be astonished if the warrant will turn out to have been mere fishing expedition, no matter how much the talking heads attempt to portray it as such. Trump could likely clear up the whole matter by "truth-tweeting" a single photograph of the warrant, but chooses not to. I think there is some cause for reflection in that.
> 
> It promises to be an interesting process.











DOJ: Two warrants letting FBI spy on ex-Trump aide Page were not valid


The DOJ now believes it didn't have probable cause to think Carter Page might be acting as an agent of a foreign power, which was required to surveil him.




www.nbcnews.com





How much oversight is needed exactly?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> Yeah yeah, Clinton campaign lawyer went to FBI with false accusations about her political opponent without her campaign knowing........... you still believe in Santa Claus?
> You focus on him not being convicted for not stating he is Clinton campaign's lawyer. That's not the important part.
> 
> Important part is Clinton campaign weaponizing FBI by having Clinton campaign lawyer go to FBI with false accusations about political opponent


That's fine, I mean if you want to live in your Trump narrative world have at it.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

There is no Trump narrative or Biden narrative. The world isn't black or white.
There is multiple instances in which FBI was weaponized and the 'checks and balances' on warrants didn't stop that. 
There is proof of that. A fact stays a fact, regardless which narrative you want to be


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

damian13ster said:


> DOJ: Two warrants letting FBI spy on ex-Trump aide Page were not valid
> 
> 
> The DOJ now believes it didn't have probable cause to think Carter Page might be acting as an agent of a foreign power, which was required to surveil him.
> ...


That was not the Trump warrant. The Trump mar-a-lago warrant was signed off by the AG, as well as others, no doubt. Now you will say the AG is a political appointee, but still there is no higher oversight in the DOJ unless they wanted to get a supreme court judgment.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

gardner said:


> That was not the Trump warrant. The Trump mar-a-lago warrant was signed off by the AG, as well as others, no doubt. Now you will say the AG is a political appointee, but still there is no higher oversight in the DOJ unless they wanted to get a supreme court judgment.


Of course. Not speculating on validity of current warrant because we haven't seen it yet.
Simply disputing the point you made in this statement:

"Given the amount of approval and oversight required to get a warrant for someone like Trump, and the fact that so much of the government machinery is still folks appointed by Trump, I would be astonished if the warrant will turn out to have been mere fishing expedition, no matter how much the talking heads attempt to portray it as such. "

The amount of approval and oversight required to spy on campaign of POTUS was not enough to prevent use of invalid warrants, and didn't prevent fishing expedition from FBI


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## yerboguy (Sep 14, 2017)

like_to_retire said:


> Perhaps, but as always they underestimate Trump and his ability to twist a situation to his advantage. Essentially, he was the one that broke this news as he wanted to get ahead of the media's message. He fashioned it as a huge over-reach by the FBI and the government who are "out to get him". He implies that if they can do this to a former president, they can do it to you. This only furthers his chances in the next election. People should stop thinking this guy is dumb.
> 
> ltr


The people who are truly are dumb ones are those who swallow his BS (Like all the things you mention above). If there weren't so many of them his lame efforts would never go anywhere.


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## yerboguy (Sep 14, 2017)

damian13ster said:


> They just announced all the raid had to do with was taking documents from white house that are wanted by the archives.
> No potential of it going to trial
> Just a fishing expedition


His own lawyer said the documents in question are "Classified". Also, he had already received a subpoena to give up these documents and did not comply. Hence the raid. The already went there to get the documents in June, but apparently he didn't hand everything over. I doubt he or anyone would have done that or refused to hand them over in the 1st place for unimportant papers. I am not sure who the "they" referred to are, but I don't think the FBI or DoJ have announced anything like that.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

yerboguy said:


> His own lawyer said the documents in question are "Classified". Also, he had already received a subpoena to give up these documents and did not comply. Hence the raid. The already went there to get the documents in June, but apparently he didn't hand everything over. I doubt he or anyone would have done that or refused to hand them over in the 1st place for unimportant papers. I am not sure who the "they" referred to are, but I don't think the FBI or DoJ have announced anything like that.


Not sure where you get the information on not complying with returning the documents.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/09/trump-fbi-search-mar-a-lago/



This source claims something different - claims the feds were shown the contents of the boxes and wanted more security for the storage, so it was added. Don't you think that if feds decided those documents were needed then they could have taken them beginning of June and not wait until exact deadline in which they can act prior to midterms?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump didn't turn over all the documents. He kept some in his office safe.

There is no indication that the documents in the WP story are even the same documents, and they very likely aren't.

Why was Trump willing to give up some documents, but not these particular documents now labeled to be highly classified top secret "nuclear weapons".

Nuclear weapons information for an ally, an enemy or the US ? 

Trump illegally took classified documents. He failed to return all the documents. He lied to FBI investigators about the hidden documents.

The big question is what he intended to do with the documents.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

damian13ster said:


> There is no Trump narrative or Biden narrative. The world isn't black or white.
> There is multiple instances in which FBI was weaponized and the 'checks and balances' on warrants didn't stop that.
> There is proof of that. A fact stays a fact, regardless which narrative you want to be


That's rich coming from someone who has consistently posted in black and white terms.


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

bgc_fan said:


> That's rich coming from someone who has consistently posted in black and white terms.


Not really, that's just your interpretation of it. But that's fine, like I said, the world is not black or white


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Right wing extremist media personalities are whipping up their audiences to violence (to attack the government, FBI, etc).

So right wing terrorists could mobilize and step up their attacks against America.

I really hope Canadian law enforcement is also on high alert, because there are terrorist cells here in Canada and they could also become more active. I have warned for many years about the growing right wing terrorist / extremist movement.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump says he won't oppose the publication of the warrant and inventory list. I don't think he had much choice because it was coming out anyways.

They should be released sometime this afternoon. What the media really want to see is the affidavit presented to the judge to get a search warrant.

I doubt that is going to happen.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Right wing extremist media personalities are whipping up their audiences to violence (to attack the government, FBI, etc).


There was a good description on MSN news on the response by RW & Trumpers to the attack against the FBI in Ohio.
The guy who attacked the FBI (& was killed) is a classic example of the type of "extremist" who will actually go out, with a gun, and cause disruption. In short, he was a loser. The commentator said that no trump supporters - at least those with families and jobs - will go out and engage in this kind of civil disorder. They will sit at home, polish & clean their guns, watch events, chat online and contribute to hysteria/rhetoric - but they will not attack the government.

What I am interested in is how Trump & his buddies are going to try to explain how their priority to promote "law and order" in the US can somehow be supported while having taken highly sensitive intelligence out of the WH - that is - engaging is what appears to be espionage. Violations like this of the espionage act result in a maximum 10-year sentence.

I suspect, like so much of what he does, he and his buddies will come out of this looking like "patriots" to their base. It will be interesting to see how this impacts his popularity among the remaining 60% of voters who are not Trump-republicans.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Merrick Garland is giving Trump and his buddies a clinic on how to show the nation the power of its democratic and law enforcement institutions. He speaks exceptionally well. Yesterday, he explained to the nation, the role played by the FBI, the fact that this was not a politically motivated action against trump, and that the response by the FBI was the result of many months of research & investigation.

I think Trump is looking to "take on" the FBI, and other non-political, security branches of government, and try to fracture the FBI. Thankfully, Merrick Garland works with a set of gears and has access to judicial processes that Trump does not. Garland is playing a very impactful role in this drama.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It occurred to me recently that the nature of this FBI action may be overblown, perhaps deliberately by Trump for political points.

The FBI may have simply been acting on behalf of the National Archives to retrieve sensitive documents that Trump is too lazy / disorganized to return. While he certainly should not be keeping these at his residence, there may be no malicious intent at all -- he's known to be lazy and stupid.

So perhaps the FBI is just retrieving the documents but there may be no prosecution as a result.

Trump may even know that it's a mundane document collection visit, *but trying to leverage it* to amp up his base... a cause they can rally behind.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

This could be you….says the right, 
like who doesn’t stash top secret documents on nuclear weapons in their sock dresser ?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

US allies are gravely concerned about intelligence Trump may have revealed.

Biden had already revoked Trump’s security clearance at the request of the US military.

They think he is nuts after some of the requests he made to them and his erratic behaviour.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

james4beach said:


> ...Trump is too lazy / disorganized to return. .... there may be no malicious intent at all -- he's known to be lazy and stupid....


not likely. there isn't an excuse to a rational, unbiased citizen.
...but there may well be an excuse if you are a Trump loyalist.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It’s funny watching the Republicans. Trump was great, then he was unfit for office, and now he is great again.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

dubmac said:


> not likely. there isn't an excuse to a rational, unbiased citizen.
> ...but there may well be an excuse if you are a Trump loyalist.


Yeah I think you need to be in the MAGA cult to really excuse this kind of behaviour.

Classified nuclear documents?



sags said:


> like who doesn’t stash top secret documents on nuclear weapons in their sock dresser ?


lol!!


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> It occurred to me recently that the nature of this FBI action may be overblown, perhaps deliberately by Trump for political points.
> 
> The FBI may have simply been acting on behalf of the National Archives to retrieve sensitive documents that Trump is too lazy / disorganized to return. While he certainly should not be keeping these at his residence, there may be no malicious intent at all -- he's known to be lazy and stupid.
> 
> ...


 ... would a financial gain count as a felony for taking classified government documents? Not that the Dump can built a nuclear plant over at Mar-a-Lago but with worldly auction off as "his property".


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

dubmac said:


> not likely. there isn't an excuse to a rational, unbiased citizen.
> ...but there may well be an excuse if you are a Trump loyalist.


That's not an excuse at all.

The excuse is - he has the power to declassify documents. 
Warrant pretty much confirmed what we have been saying - the warrant was about documents.
The question is whether it is true that in early June FBI was made aware of the documents and all they said is to secure them better by installing extra lock.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Given the highly sensitive nature of the inventoried items…the highest security and labelled “top secret”, I doubt the FBI said to keep them and put a lock on it.

Trump had zero security clearance and it would be hard to believe that scenario ever happened.


----------



## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Maybe. It was written about in multiple media outlets back in june so either they got fooled or it has happened


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> That's not an excuse at all.
> The excuse is - he has the power to declassify documents.
> Warrant pretty much confirmed what we have been saying - the warrant was about documents.
> The question is whether it is true that in early June FBI was made aware of the documents and all they said is to secure them better by installing extra lock.


He _only_ has the power to declassify when he is president.
He wasn't the president when he left the WH - Biden was president. Trump was a citizen of the US.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Former Presidents normally retain security clearance so they can be called upon for insight if needed. They receive some security briefings, but Trump had all security clearances revoked by Biden.

Carter, Bush, Clinton, Obama get security briefings at some level.

Trump doesn’t and there is no legal reason for him to have any classified information at all.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Interesting mention in the warrant and inventory about “espionage”.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ And what's the latest excuse - "oh, everybody takes files home from work". Like he needs to "work" as an EX-potus (oops).

Damian13ster, I presuppose you would wholeheartedly agree with the Dump's remark above with having the need to prove you work so hard while WFH, whining on CMF 24/7. In the Dump's case, it was Twitter.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

I think that Trump is trying to tell his base that he, in his own world, still is POTUS, and therefore, has all the powers of POTUS (including the decisions on classifying, declassifying security documents, taking them home, etc)...and even the FBI can't intimidate him. By extension, he wants his base to see this confrontation, & _stay in the headlines_.

"The U.S. has come to the point where it no longer has good options. If the DOJ doesn’t indict Mr. Trump, they risk destroying the rule of law. If they do indict Mr. Trump, they risk destroying the country. " todays G&M Opinion section, Stephen Marche. good article.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> It occurred to me recently that the nature of this FBI action may be overblown, perhaps deliberately by Trump for political points.
> 
> The FBI may have simply been acting on behalf of the National Archives to retrieve sensitive documents that Trump is too lazy / disorganized to return. While he certainly should not be keeping these at his residence, there may be no malicious intent at all -- he's known to be lazy and stupid.
> 
> ...


Like I said before, it's likely he isn't going to be punished, or at most gets a fine: which he'll use as another grift to raise millions from his supporters.

At any case, there really isn't much excuse to bring boxes of documents back home after you are done with your job. Generally speaking once you are done with it, there's no need for you to keep work documentation.

As for the weak idea that he can declassify documentation because he was president, there are still limits. For example, anything related to nuclear: Not Even the President Can Declassify Nuclear Secrets. It's kind of obvious that regardless of what people think, nuclear secrets can't be declassified, and those seem to be the documents in question.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

It would not surprise me if congressional Republicans start an effort to declassify nuclear secrets.

Their actions make the RNC look like it is under Putin's control.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Like I said before, it's likely he isn't going to be punished, or at most gets a fine: which he'll use as another grift to raise millions from his supporters.
> 
> At any case, there really isn't much excuse to bring boxes of documents back home after you are done with your job. Generally speaking once you are done with it, there's no need for you to keep work documentation.
> 
> As for the weak idea that he can declassify documentation because he was president, there are still limits. For example, anything related to nuclear: Not Even the President Can Declassify Nuclear Secrets. It's kind of obvious that regardless of what people think, nuclear secrets can't be declassified, and those seem to be the documents in question.


 ... we will see if the Dump is "above the law".


----------



## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

until the clintons are raided for their collusion with russia, or hunter bidens place is raided I cant take the FBI seriously for this "raid" on trumps place..what a joke...seriously just looks like the democrats use the FBI , CIA etc as their political goon squad.... this is not good at all for America, for Democracy or anyone.. fans the flames of hate on both sides and divides us all


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Gumball said:


> ...seriously just looks like the democrats use the FBI , CIA etc as their political goon squad..... fans the flames of hate on both sides and divides us all


the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, QAnon, ...now _there's_ a goon squad.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

On Monday's show, Sean Hannity discussed the possibility of Trump running again as a convicted felon.

"Being a felon is not a disqualification," Hannity said on his radio show


----------



## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

james4beach said:


> On Monday's show, Sean Hannity discussed the possibility of Trump running again as a convicted felon.
> 
> "Being a felon is not a disqualification," Hannity said on his radio show


Clearly its not a disqualification as the Clinton crime syndicate has operated with impunity for years....these politcal elites are above the law...why are you only distracted with the media telling you orange man bad?


----------



## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

dubmac said:


> the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, QAnon, ...now _there's_ a goon squad.


yes you be a good little boy and keep repeating what the media tells you...


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Florida's Governor DeSantis and Trump will be attacking each other soon.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Gumball said:


> yes you be a good little boy and keep repeating what the media tells you...


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump's CFO pleads guilty to 15 felony counts.

He will only serve 5 months in prison, provided he testifies fully in the trial against the Trump company.

The judge warned him that he faces 15 years in prison if he doesn't comply with the plea agreement.

Some time in prison and he will be singing like the San Saba Songbird.

The Trump "inner circle" is disintegrating with most of them involved in their own trials.

Question asked today on the news........is Trump a flight risk ?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Well, the FBI gave back his (3) passports but then where will he go ... and as an unrecognized?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The CFO for the Trump family business pleads guilty to felony charges, as @sags mentioned earlier.

Keep in mind as well that Trump's personal lawyer (Michael Cohen), and VP of the same Trump Organization, was also guilty of multiple counts including tax fraud and campaign finance violations.

Not to mention Paul Manafort and Roger Stone. All of them criminals.









Allen Weisselberg, a Trump Org employee for decades, pleads guilty to felony charges


Weisselberg entered his guilty plea in state court in lower Manhattan on Thursday. He's the latest person close to former President Trump to plead guilty or be convicted at trial of a felony.




www.npr.org


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ The CEO is "above the law".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Donald Trump hints at legal action over Mar-a-Lago raid. Lawyers are already finding fault with his Fourth Amendment defense.

Oh man oh man, the lawyer(s) who want to represent the Dump now must either be:

1. Desperate for $ or some kind of reputation even it's at the bottom of the pit since it can't be "fame" now. 
2. Want to be a saint(s) for doing it pro-bono.
3. Bored out of their minds or not busy enough in their practice.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Before the ink had the chance to dry on the above post, this pops up:

Alan Dershowitz says every reputable attorney he's spoken with has told him their firms 'won't let them go anywhere near' Trump

Maybe the Dump can ask soon-to-be fellow inmate Rudy for "free" advice. I can't blame Cohen for saying "I told the world so! (aka what his (ex)-client/boss is "really" like!)".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Pence says he didn't leave office with classified material

I think Pence has a better shot for presidency in 2024 than his former "boss".


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

The Economist magazine has focused on Trump's plans for 2024 in their most recent magazine. A short summary is below in quotes. Corporate America's support may be waning. Time will tell.

"...Yet the political clout of big companies is waning, as the Republican Party becomes a movement of working-class whites and an increasing number of conservative Hispanics. That movement protests against not just foreign entanglements, illegal immigration, and cuts to Medicare and Social Security, but also trade and left-wing identity politics advanced by the global, managerial elite. Many Republicans think the party has for too long put the interests of the s&p 500 ahead of American workers. Little wonder that big companies now regard the prospect of a Republican triumph in November with trepidation. What remains of the Republican establishment acts like a government in exile, muttering about Mr Trump’s takeover, but lacking the means to reverse it."


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

The MAGA chant along with the fist pump salute are gonna to be sucked into a blackhole after the US 2024 presidential election.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I still think Trump will run. He's got a full-blown cult, complete with a violent para military force too.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

james4beach said:


> I still think Trump will run. He's got a full-blown cult, complete with a violent para military force too.


Will running for office halt all investigations and law enforcement on him?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Tostig said:


> Will running for office halt all investigations and law enforcement on him?


I think it would help his situation. Law enforcement is already using kid gloves with him, but they'll hesitate even more if he's actually in the running.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

It wouldn't surprise me that he does run, and yes - Trump does have a loyal following of mostly young white & Hispanic voters. But think however what has happened over the past two weeks, and look at the impact that this can have on popularity. No question - he's a force, but he's not invincible. As Mitch McConnell acknowledges, the Republican Party faces some real challenges in the next 3 months - specifically with the quality of their incumbents. The next few months will be a real ride. My hope is that Biden will not run again.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

With the most recent revelations on the top secret documents, it appears the DOJ has investigations into Trump being involved in espionage.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> With the most recent revelations on the top secret documents, it appears the DOJ has investigations into Trump being involved in espionage.


What's your source on that? I haven't heard of any suggestion Trump is involved in espionage.

The laws fit under the Espionage Act but that's pretty broad, and only because there are classified documents involved. Doesn't immediately mean there's espionage happening.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Former prosecutors mock Trump's attorneys and say they may need to hire their own lawyers amid continued Mar-a-Lago fallout



> ...
> _Trump's current legal team includes _
> 
> _Christina Bobb, a former host on the right-wing One America News; _
> ...


_ ... _the Dump's new "Clown" team


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Trump offered his latest lawyer the job without having met him after other attorneys turned him down, report says



> _...
> Trump has been struggling to find lawyers to represent him, The Post reported last week. Several unnamed lawyers told the newspaper that the former president is an impossible client who rarely listens to legal advice.
> 
> Trump has denied the report last week, calling it "fake news."
> ...


 ... in the Dump's world of fantasy, anything that doesn't fit his narrative is considered "fake news" when in the world of reality, it's the complete opposite.

It's great he has a team of "excellent and experienced" lawyers, doing clown work. I can't imagine what they'll be paid with at the end ... a prison term or 2 would fitting ... just look at their client's track record. So where's Rudy when you need him? Cohen saw the light and paid his due and now smiling of course.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Trump hyped a legal letter from before the Mar-a-Lago raid, ignoring that it may further undermine his own position

_



Former President Donald Trump was jubilant at the release of a letter which he claimed showed a political plot against him.

*But his celebration, in a series of posts on his Truth Social network,* was seized on by legal experts for a different reason — making clear the extent of alarm within the government at his holding secret documents in Mar-a-Lago. 

*Trump's posts referred to a letter sent** from the National Archivist, Debra Wall, in May to Trump attorney Evan Corcoran. 

Wall said that material at the highest levels of classification had been among items returned to the government by Trump in January.

The letter made clear the large number of documents taken and their secrecy — Wall said that on realising what happened officials started an urgent review of "the potential damage" from secrets having been improperly stored.*

The letter was posted online Tuesday by John Solomon, a journalist connected to Trump, who instead emphasized part of the letter saying that President Joe Biden had asked whether the FBI could review the material returned by Trump.

The letter said he had deferred the decision to the National Archivist and the Department of Justice. Even thought he letter was an example of Biden staying away from the decision, Solomon and Trump held it up as evidence of a political plot.

Trump wrote: "The White House stated strongly that they were NOT INVOLVED, and knew absolutely nothing about, the political Witch Hunt going on with me, & that they didn't know anything at all about the Break-In of Mar-a-Lago."

*There is no evidence in the letter that the White House was made aware ahead of the event of the August 8 search of Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, where agents retrieved more highly classified material. 

Bradley P. Moss, a national security attorney, said that Solomon's publication of the letter had backfired.*

"Does @jsolomonReports realize how bad that letter is for Trump?" he asked, before Trump made his posted weighing in.

*"Trump not only had classified records at Mar-a-Lago, not only had TS/SCI classified records, he had Special Access Program classified information. Those are our most sensitive secrets. They were sitting in a damn basement."

University of Texas law professor Steve Vladeck described the release "as both a self-inflicted wound and further proof of how the government has been playing by the rules."*

Click to expand...

_ ... GREAT PIECE OF WORK!!!!


----------



## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

dubmac said:


> It wouldn't surprise me that he does run, and yes - Trump does have a loyal following of mostly young white & Hispanic voters. But think however what has happened over the past two weeks, and look at the impact that this can have on popularity. No question - he's a force, but he's not invincible. As Mitch McConnell acknowledges, the Republican Party faces some real challenges in the next 3 months - specifically with the quality of their incumbents. The next few months will be a real ride. My hope is that Biden will not run again.


I'm sure it makes perfectly good sense but only for Trump supporters and some other right wingers that the purpose of public office is to hide from the law.

What is the world of MAGA? Elect a self-made felon who breaks his own law?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

This stuff is so highly classified that only a few people are allowed to read them within a secured government location, safe from enemy eyes and ears.

Trump saying they were only misplaced and stored with other stuff is total nonsense. These documents are never allowed out of the secured location.

How did Trump even get the documents when there is a secure "chain of custody" protocol for such documents ?

Somebody must have given them to him, outside of the chain of custody. There is a White House security detail that maintains the chain of custody.

They are now under investigation as well. This is looking like calculated and deliberate espionage taking place in the Trump WH administration.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Watch the Dump's next narrative that he can find these documents over at his local Good Will's store if he wanted to. 

Can you imagine putting him in charge again of the nation's "red button"? (((( shudder ))))


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

sags said:


> This is looking like calculated and deliberate espionage taking place in the Trump WH administration.


most individuals who are not die-hard Trump fans see this as a significant offense - worthy of punishment & prosecution.
But what does Trump, his supporters, sympathizers, and his accolades see? Is this not another Trump plan to garner support, and donations to his martyr-driven cause? Like so many offenses (is it 2 impeachment trials to date? - neither leading to any real consequence) - he pops back up, like a game of whack-a-mole.
What will Garland do with this?


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> Can you imagine putting him in charge again of the nation's "red button"?


So the first four years didn't count?

ltr


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> So the first four years didn't count?
> 
> ltr


 ... do you think the future generations care about the "past 4 years" when the nation's most powerful person has gone mad?


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> ... do you think the future generations care about the "past 4 years" when the nation's most powerful person has gone mad?


So he's wasn't mad when he served as president for the first four years and actually accomplished quite a lot even though everyone said it would be the end of the world as we know it if he became president, but now he's gone mad and so we should be afraid?

ltr


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> So he's wasn't mad when he served as president for the first four years and actually accomplished quite a lot even though everyone said it would be the end of the world as we know it if he became president, but now he's gone mad and so we should be afraid?
> 
> ltr


 ... so you're not afraid of having a madman for a president? 

As for the "actually accomplished quite a lot" -that's so laughable - MAGA right up to January 6 of which everyone else gone mad except himself, right? 

Btw, no one said it was the "end of the world" except for the Dump himself as he couldn't (and still cannot) concede that he LOST the election. Cause it was rigged against him.... I'm waiting for this response.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

A Friday Special is coming up - not sure if it's tomorrow Friday or next Friday but it is coming up!

Judge orders unsealing of redacted affidavit in Trump search



> ... _The directive from U.S. Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart came hours after federal law enforcement officials submitted under seal the portions of the affidavit that they want to keep secret as their investigation moves forward. *The judge set a deadline of noon Friday for a redacted, or blacked-out, version of the document.* ... _


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

FBI: Trump mixed top secret docs with magazines, other items



> _WASHINGTON (AP) - Fourteen of the 15 boxes recovered from former President Donald Trump's Florida estate early this year contained classified documents*, many of them top secret, mixed in with miscellaneous newspapers, magazines and personal correspondence, according to an FBI affidavit released Friday.
> 
> No space at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate was authorized for the storage of classified material, according to the court papers, which laid out the FBI's rationale for searching the property this month, including “probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found.”*
> 
> The 32-page affidavit - heavily redacted to protect the safety of witnesses and law enforcement officials and “the integrity of the ongoing investigation” - offers the most detailed description to date of the government records being stored at Mar-a-Lago long after Trump left the White House. It also reveals the gravity of the government's concerns that the documents were there illegally._


 ... literally a dump by the Dumpster.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Here's the redacted affidavit if anyone cares to read:
AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF AN APPLICATION UNDER RULE 41 FOR A WARRANT TO SEARCH AND SEIZE

Might as well throw out the coincidence that last year, the CIA started noting an increase in lost informants in preceding years:
Captured, Killed or Compromised: C.I.A. Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just took a quick glance - this part should apply, particularly the last sentence (bolded):



> ... _20. Under 18 U.S.C. § 1519: Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, *or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. * _


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The director of US counterintelligence went to Florida to question Trump.


----------



## Freedom2022 (Oct 14, 2021)

There was a story that an applicant to an engineering association was rejected due to poor reading comprehension skill. He was asked to provide further documents. He challenged the association with the argument that the request was not fair, because it was not clearly written on the association regulation. The association rejected him with simple explanation that since he could not comprehend the rules for membership application, then he was not qualified to offer practice of engineering to the society.

In Mr. Trump case, he can't comprehend that he has no right and it is dangerous to his country, to take home the classify documents. If he was innocently took it, he simply return it back and apologize. Honest mistake, end of the case. He refused to return it back and lied about possessing more documents: 15 boxes were turned in, no more, he said.

In conclusion, he is not qualified to be a president. His comprehension skill about regulations, rules and law is terrible. As simple as that.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ The guy thinks he's "above the law". I'm waiting to see this phenomenon to happen - which will then be a first in the world and possibly earn him a place on the Guinness of World Records.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Mark Meadows has been subpoeneaed. this will be interesting.








Georgia district attorney investigating Trump calls for Mark Meadows to testify before special grand jury | CNN Politics


Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has called on Mark Meadows -- former President Donald Trump's White House chief of staff -- to testify before the special grand jury investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia, according to a new court filing obtained by CNN.




www.cnn.com





One wonders how much of this will cause the Republicans, those who are not die-hard Trump fanatics, to start viewing Trump as a liability.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Maybe he will plead the Fifth Amendment 500 times (you know the stupid, dumb and deaf strategy in layman terms), beating out the Dump.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Maybe he will plead the Fifth Amendment 500 times (you know the stupid, dumb and deaf strategy in layman terms), beating out the Dump.


But only the mob pleads the fifth. If they have nothing to hide, they won't do that.





I mean no one innocent would ever plead the Fifth right?








After deriding those who plead the Fifth, Trump pleads the Fifth


“The mob takes the Fifth Amendment,” Donald Trump said in 2016. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” Today, he pleaded the Fifth.




www.msnbc.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trumpism is now described by President Biden as a "semi-fascism" movement.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ And the Dump is still blaming Obama for his own doing of removing government information. Unbelieveable.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Trumpism is now described by President Biden as a "semi-fascism" movement.


Yes, MAGA is a fascist movement.

And a quick example of how MAGA (and Trump) are fascists. There were two men on trial for a conspiracy to kidnap the governor of Michigan. They were just found guilty of the plan to kidnap, and also for trying to obtain a weapon of mass destruction, a bomb.

Trump then made a public statement criticizing the prosecution, calling it a "fake deal" --- so here again Trump is giving support to the goons who were committing political violence. Trump is a fascist... he wants absolute power, and he really does support violence.

It's a long pattern with Trump. Throughout his presidency, he encouraged and stoked violence towards political enemies, including his own VP.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The FBI is finished reviewing the documents and the majority of top legal experts are predicting a criminal indictment will be issued soon.



https://news.yahoo.com/over-trump-indicted-220111093.html


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ No, no, no, I'm waiting for the First person to be known as "Above The Law".

Btw, did you read the latest on how the Dump hired his latest lawyer? From a view on tv that he's pro-Dump ... so it's another lawyer willing to take a bullet for the Dump, his Messiah father, eh?


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

let the games begin.....


https://news.yahoo.com/sen-lindsey-graham-said-trump-033304258.html


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Here's the inventory of what was seized:


https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.39.1_1.pdf


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Here's the inventory of what was seized:
> 
> 
> https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.39.1_1.pdf


 ... never mind about there were "alot" of CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET documents but also "_Empty folders with CLASSIFIED banners_" - what happened to the contents in those folders?

Item #18 also really stands out:
"_2 Empty Folders Labeled "Return to Staff Secretary /MilitaryAide_'' - were they "returned" to as labeled? Bet not.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... never mind about there were "alot" of CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET documents but also "_Empty folders with CLASSIFIED banners_" - what happened to the contents in those folders?
> 
> Item #18 also really stands out:
> "_2 Empty Folders Labeled "Return to Staff Secretary /MilitaryAide_'' - were they "returned" to as labeled? Bet not.


Yeah, most would think of that as a red flag, but Trump supporters will simply say, "See witch hunt, no classified documents!". Meanwhile, that assumes that Trump just likes taking empty file folders from the White House for no appearant reason. 
The obvious question is yours: what happened to the contents? Maybe they were returned, though normally you give the whole package and not keep the file folder. Of course, only an idiot would keep the empty file folder and give away the contents, but then again look who is involved.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Yeah, most would think of that as a red flag, but Trump supporters will simply say, "See witch hunt, no classified documents!".


 ... of course, it has always been a "witch hunt with no classified docs" as declared by the Dump 'cause he declassified them with his magic wand while being POTUS and no one was looking.


> Meanwhile, that assumes that Trump just likes taking empty file folders from the White House for no appearant reason.
> The obvious question is yours: what happened to the contents? Maybe they were returned, though normally you give the whole package and not keep the file folder.


 ... could be but if they were indeed "returned", then the next question will be "returned to whom?". It never occurred to the Dump that the FBI is gonna to question that and issue a search over either Ivanka, Eric and/or Donald Jr's place. Or maybe the Dump now declare the missing docs are over at his new lawyers' place. So search there too.


> Of course, only an idiot would keep the empty file folder and give away the contents, but then again look who is involved.


 ... no kidding, LOL!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump would have given the secret documents back, but he didn't have them anymore.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

After the latest revelations of the contents of some of the documents in Trump's possession, many are wondering why he isn't in secure custody already.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Because the Dump-appointed judge Cannon has granted him a "Special Master" to oversee what are in those empty classified/top secret folders.

Anyhow, is this the latest your post above was referring to?

Mar-a-Lago documents kept in Trump's home were so secret that even the highest-ranking national security officials in the Biden administration weren't allowed to look at them, report says

Butt, butt, butt . .. the Dump had "declassified" them with his magic wand. Pffff ... and they're gone ... somewhere ... around the globe. I wonder if these secrets were bidded.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Hmm…..good question.









Shelly 🖖 on TikTok


#duet with @breakfastrant #trump excellent point #trumplostlol #trumpforprison #donaldtrumpisaclown #donaldtrumpisaloser




vm.tiktok.com


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Trump wants to split the cost of the special master with the government but the DOJ wants him to pay for it

USA taxpayers must be really happy paying for these costs on a mobhead with its own mob organization.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Like attract like:

Meet Christina Bobb — former OAN presenter, 2020 election denier, and Trump's latest attorney to face legal trouble



> By Sophia Ankel, Sat, September 10, 2022, BusinessInsider.com
> 
> ...
> _*She previously worked at the far-right OAN network and the Marine Corps, and once ran for Congress.*_
> ...


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Michael Cohen: New York's Trump Lawsuit News Makes All His 'Pain And Anger' Worth It



> New York Attorney General Letitia James noted the investigation started only after Trump's former personal attorney shed light on the financial misconduct.
> Josephine Harvey, Sep 21, 2022
> 
> ...
> ...


 ... I wonder when the kids are gonna to cry to poppa? Or who is gonna to pay for the legal fees, including those for divorces.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump told Sean Hannity on Fox News that a President can declassify documents if they just think about doing it.

It sounds like he didn't declassify anything prior to taking the documents and storing them all over the place.

Yet another high level Russian "fell out of a window'. Some are wondering if they were informants to the CIA and Putin got the list from Trump.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

sags said:


> Trump told Sean Hannity on Fox News that a President can declassify documents if they just think about doing it.
> 
> It sounds like he didn't declassify anything prior to taking the documents and storing them all over the place.
> 
> Yet another high level Russian "fell out of a window'. Some are wondering if they were informants to the CIA and Putin got the list from Trump.


In the same Hannity interview Trump said that the FBI raid was possibly to try and find the"missing" Clinton emails.This could helped explained the heavy handed FBI approach


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Trump Special Master Declines Extra Pay for Review of Documents

_



By Joe Schneider, September 22, 2022

Raymond Dearie, the semi-retired federal judge in charge of reviewing documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s estate, said he won’t seek extra pay for the work, but asked that a magistrate judge assigned to help him get $500 an hour. ...

Click to expand...

 ...._$500 an hour (along with no extra) - that's cheap! Maybe the Dump does not have to pay if he goes to jail.

And then the bill can go to either Eric, Ivanka or Jr D or all.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Special master in the Mar-a-Lago case is testing Trump's lawyers to see if they will lie in court, analyst says



> _By Tom Porter, September 23, 2022
> 
> Raymond Dearie, the special master reviewing government records the FBI retrieved from Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate, is putting the former president's defense to test, a CNN legal analyst said.
> 
> ...


... sheesh, what a bunch of whimps. 

Their* above-the-law client *wants to see if his new legal team members are for real or not. Take the bullets!!!!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Trump told Sean Hannity on Fox News that a President can declassify documents if they just think about doing it.
> 
> It sounds like he didn't declassify anything prior to taking the documents and storing them all over the place.
> 
> Yet another high level Russian "fell out of a window'. Some are wondering if they were informants to the CIA and Putin got the list from Trump.


 ...yeah, the Dump can just declassify things by "thinking about it". I'm waiting to see if he does not need to go to jail 'cause he thinked about it.

Trump said he could declassify documents with his mind, but he may have also accidentally admitted to taking them 'intentionally,' NYT reporter says

_



.... In an interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity, Trump made the unfounded claim that Presidents are able to declassify documents simply by "saying: 'It's declassified'" or "even by thinking about it."

*"Because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago, or to wherever you're sending it*," Trump told Hannity on Wednesday. "You're the president, you make that decision. So when you send it, it's declassified. I declassified everything," Trump added.

On a Friday episode of CNN New Day, Haberman fixated on Trump's phrase "you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago." ...

Click to expand...

 ..._ why decide on sending it to Mar-a-Lago? And why not the "wherever you're sending it to " which was supposed to be the National Archives as he was "told to" months ago but chose "aka decided" not? LIAR!!!! I wonder how how many pairs of feet does the Dump have to shoot them off. He can't even lie right anymore.


Donald Trump shares Truth Social photo proclaiming him as second only to Jesus

Now using the evangelical angle ... . If i was a religious person, I would be highly offended by this.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... of course, it has always been a "witch hunt with no classified docs" as declared by the Dump 'cause he declassified them with his magic wand while being POTUS and no one was looking.
> ... could be but if they were indeed "returned", then the next question will be "returned to whom?". It never occurred to the Dump that the FBI is gonna to question that and issue a search over either Ivanka, Eric and/or Donald Jr's place. Or maybe the Dump now declare the missing docs are over at his new lawyers' place. So search there too. ... no kidding, LOL!


No need to guess. The mystery is solved on Twitter. The missing documents (Declasified of course) are in Trumps deceased ex-wife's golf course resting place. Ivana RIP


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Gothenburg83 said:


> No need to guess. The mystery is solved on Twitter. The missing documents (Declasified of course) are in Trumps deceased ex-wife's golf course resting place. Ivana RIP


 ... I'm not on Twitter nor follow it (except for the lawsuit with Musk, can't wait for the results). 

But say hypothetically it's true that the Dump sent his declassified docs buried with his ex, any chance that the DOJ would want her grave opened up to retrieve them? How does that work? Will be really interesting seeing it happening in the real world. 

Can't say what Ivana will say to the Dump in the afterlife for doing that. Or maybe she can pay him a visit while he's still residing at MAL.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is imperative the FBI find the missing documents, regardless of where they are.

What the documents contained, who had access to them, what resulted from that access.......is a national security threat at the highest level.

Trump is going to prison for the rest of his life, unless he takes off to live in Russia.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I'm not on Twitter nor follow it (except for the lawsuit with Musk, can't wait for the results).
> 
> But say hypothetically it's true that the Dump sent his declassified docs buried with his ex, any chance that the DOJ would want her grave opened up to retrieve them? How does that work? Will be really interesting seeing it happening in the real world.
> 
> Can't say what Ivana will say to the Dump in the afterlife for doing that. Or maybe she can pay him a visit while he's still residing at MAL.


I'm not on twitter either. I stumbled on this theory in an opinion column in the Guardian.
Trump loves talking and in the Hannity interview he did more or less say that the documents aren't solely in that horrible mar-a-lago. I guess the FBI will do whatever it takes to find all the documents.. What I don't understand is why Dump is still free to do these interviews, he is the one who should be being interrogated by the FBI. How will he take care of his hair and clown make up if he is incarcerated?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I missed this story when it came out in 2021. Trump was much sicker with Covid than he let on at the time. His blood oxygen level dropped below 90% which is extremely dangerous. If it wasn't for the experimental therapies and top medical treatment, he could have easily died.

Severe cases of Covid tend to affect people's organs, and often the brain. Considering he also had very low blood oxygen, my guess is that Trump suffered brain damage. He seems to have become _extra unhinged_ near the end of his term. The brain damage from Covid can also lead to behavioural changes.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don’t think Trump or Biden could serve another full term.

That would be 6 years from now.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump, Biden, McConnell, Pelosi, and Schumer……should all be replaced.

There used to be a Senator that was so old they wheeled him in for votes in a wheelchair, woke him up, and told him how to vote.

But then Americans did elect a dead guy… so there is that.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-begs-donations-mar-lago-175503473.html

MAGA!, MAGA!, MAGA!, MAGA!, again and again and again and again ... blow-horns the Dump ... man, this is getting old. What a pathetic humanoid.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

No one is commenting about the corrupt judge Aileen Cannon who is in Trump's pocket. She's basically thumbing her nose at the judicial process and practically daring anybody to do sonething about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, she repeats what Bill Barr did with the Mueller Report, exonerated Trump opposite of what the report said. So she's likely to rule that the DoJ return all the documents back to Trump.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Not if she can get over the Special Master Dearie's findings and the DOJ's exhausting all their appeals.

If you think she can rule that the DOJ return all documents back to the Dump, that's basically saying those documents were Dump's properties in the first place, not the government of the USA (or the same government which hired her). So were they?


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

It doesn't matter what any of us think. She's going to do what it takes to do what Trump wants. And that's to give back to Trump what Trump stole from the American government.

And the only way to stop it is for someone to take the bold step in removing Cannon from her post or appointment.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Tostig said:


> No one is commenting about the corrupt judge Aileen Cannon who is in Trump's pocket. She's basically thumbing her nose at the judicial process and practically daring anybody to do sonething about it.
> 
> *I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, she repeats what Bill Barr did with the Mueller Report, exonerated Trump opposite of what the report said. * So she's likely to rule that the DoJ return all the documents back to Trump.





Tostig said:


> *It doesn't matter what any of us think. She's going to do what it takes to do what Trump wants. And that's to give back to Trump what Trump stole from the American government.*
> 
> And the only way to stop it is for someone to take the bold step in removing Cannon from her post or appointment.


 ... like I said previously - twice I believe - let's see if the Dump will be the* first person "above the law" *and that includes above Cannon, the "judge" too.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... like I said previously - twice I believe - let's see if the Dump will be the* first person "above the law" *and that includes above Cannon, the "judge" too.


I understand that Dump is being accused of breaking the law (variously) but in this case (post FBI raid) he hasn't been indicted as far I know. He is freely wondering around taking **** about windmills , flushing toilets and mexican rapists etc. The time between the initial FBI raid and the Cannon Judge interference play was surely ample time for the FBI to have been through the documents at least to some degree. Since the main issue is not the classied/declassified by brain wave saga but just the fact that Trump unlawfully had one doc or many docs belonging to the non- entity that is the US govt then I posit that FBI should already have all they need to slap the bracelets on him and give him a trial dateI. I just mean one document is enough it doesn't have to 10 or a 100 documents or 103. 

As far as the Judge she is not breaking any law as far as I've heard . Is it not true she is just demonstrating very publicly a lack of fitness for the position she was gifted.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Ever heard of the proverb "*The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine."*? Let's hope this is the case.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Gothenburg83 said:


> I understand that Dump is being accused of breaking the law (variously) but in this case (post FBI raid) he hasn't been indicted as far I know. He is freely wondering around taking **** about windmills , flushing toilets and mexican rapists etc. The time between the initial FBI raid and the Cannon Judge interference play was surely ample time for the FBI to have been through the documents at least to some degree. Since the main issue is not the classied/declassified by brain wave saga but just the fact that Trump unlawfully had one doc or many docs belonging to the non- entity that is the US govt then I posit that FBI should already have all they need to slap the bracelets on him and give him a trial dateI. I just mean one document is enough it doesn't have to 10 or a 100 documents or 103.
> 
> As far as the Judge she is not breaking any law as far as I've heard . Is it not true she is just demonstrating very publicly a lack of fitness for the position she was gifted.


The NOT in that last sentence is an error. It is true.
I was being rushed by she who shall be obeyed to go buy a pack of roof shingles as I am doing my shed roof. More on that in the frugal section (I got 75% off the listed price)


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Ever heard of the proverb "*The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine."*? Let's hope this is the case.


I would have to believe in the idea that Justice is a thing. The wealthy and powerful seem in large part to escape justice


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

More documents need to be returned allegedly. US DOJ - Not all docs turned over 

Check Don Jr house , or the golf course grave? A chance for the FBI to check/ violatem Ivanka's sock drawer maybe?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

One of the top Oath Keepers pled guilty to sedition and is cooperating with the FBI with insider information.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> One of the top Oath Keepers pled guilty to sedition and is cooperating with the FBI with insider information.


lol, these "brave" militia men are both traitors and snitches


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

james4beach said:


> lol, these "brave" militia men are both traitors and snitches


It is at this juncture in the movie that the grass has a mysterious preventable fatal bathroom accident .


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Ex-federal prosecutor on Trump's claims about Bush stashing away secret government files: 'People say stuff like this when they're guilty and scared'

Man, I don't know what the current prosecutors are afraid of? Being pushed out of the window by a $3M retainer hire?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> Man, I don't know what the current prosecutors are afraid of? Being pushed out of the window by a $3M retainer hire?


Wow... this stuff is even wackier than Trump's usual stuff.



> "George H.W. Bush took millions of documents to a former bowling alley and a former Chinese restaurant where they combined them," Trump said. "So they're in a bowling alley slash Chinese restaurant."


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Wow... this stuff is even wackier than Trump's usual stuff.


 ... that's because the guilt man can't come up with anything else. Stuff any garbage in his mouth hole as an attempt to divert the guilt.


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