# I refuse to Vote for NDP



## ashin1 (Mar 22, 2014)

“A person who doesn’t understand both sides of an issue can’t relate to the side he is trying to sway, so his words will bounce off of them without leaving any impression.”


With that being said I would like to play devils advocate. It's easy to see the flaws in all the parties that you don't want to win in this up coming election, however when it comes to the party you want to win, its easy to ignore their own imperfections as well. 
So with all the rally's toward voting in the NDP, lets all just stop and reflect as to how and why Alberta became economic engine of Canada. Love him or hate him but Ralph Klein was a huge step towards putting Alberta on the Map. There is no doubt that balancing our budget and living below our means is an effective and guaranteed way to ensure our fiscal vitality and we can thank the PC party in for that. Yes it seems like a very simple and easy theory on paper,but in real life its tough and requires discipline, even ask all the ignorant protesters back in 1997, I bet they didn't anticipate Alberta to become such a booming province after Ralph decided to cut government spending. Either way, it is disappointing to see the how the core values of the Progressive Conservatives have changed so much over the years. As a health care worker it pains me to say that even a cut in our government spending and raise in taxes to focus on debt repayment would do the entire province and its citizens good in the LONG run, yes it will hurt fiscally in the short term, and yes we will need to really flex our financial discipline, but the truth hurts. We need to stop thinking of what the government can do for us, rather what can "We" do for Alberta. I think its safe to say I won't be voting for the NDP or PC this year


/rant


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I voted Wildrose last time as I saw Redford was actually a Liberal on a PC ticket...this time I already voted....PC this time as Prentice is the best guy for the job here. 

Notley is rainbows & unicorns...they cant start to pay for what they promise.

At any rate as a good Albertan I'll go along with the majority that will decide our next 4 years however...even if the lefties carry the day.

I hope everyone is getting out to vote ...44% turn out doesn't cut it when Alberta has a lot of issues to deal with.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Alberta's fortunes have been tied to oil prices, not any miracle performed by Ralph Klein or the PC party.

Ask yourself...........how have the Conservatives, with decades in power, spent the oil revenues and expanded the Alberta economy beyond depending on oil revenues ?

Answer.............they spent all the money and didn't do anything to diversify the economy.........but Prentice promises he will start anytime soon.

No other Province has done so little with so much.

Maybe that is why Albertans are fed up and want a change ?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Alberta's fortunes have been tied to oil prices, not any miracle performed by Ralph Klein or the PC party.
> 
> No other Province has done so little with so much.
> 
> Maybe that is why Albertans are fed up and want a change ?


Who's driving the change? 

As Jim said in radio show callin"


> While responding to a question that referenced the fiscal mismanagement of past Progressive Conservative governments during a live call-in show on CBC Radio on Wednesday, Prentice said that Alberta hasn’t built a revenue model to sustain its “highest-cost” public services. *A sharp drop in oil prices has left a $7-billion resource revenue shortfall in Budget 2015.*





> *In terms of who is responsible, we all need only look in the mirror, right?* It’s basically all of us have had the best of everything and have not had to pay for what it costs,” said Prentice. “Collectively, we got into this as Albertans and collectively we’re going to get out of it. Everybody is going to have to shoulder some share of the responsibility.”


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

People interviewed on CBC last night who say they 'just want a change' gave the clear impression they have not actually given any thought to what kind of change they might vote for, just 'a change'. Kind of like picking a different shirt to wear I guess?

The 10 Yr strategic plan that Prentice et al rolled out looks like 'change' to me and looks like it recognizes the issues of the past, _"For most of the past decade, Alberta has been coasting on revenues that have generally been strong but have always been unpredictable. Without a clear vision for our province’s direction, there’s been no commitment to a stable financial plan. Without a stable plan, financial risks have mounted along the way. The result today is a challenging mix of deficits, debt, and an over-reliance on unstable sources of revenue, all of which threaten Alberta’s ability to deliver quality public services."_
They recognize the need to diversify the economy as well, _"Economic Development and Innovation, Technology and Industry Partnerships. There is a total of $64 million budgeted in 2015-16 to support strategic economic development and innovation initiatives outside of Campus Alberta and Alberta Innovates, including $28 million for commercialization capacity focused on diversifying Alberta’s economy."_

Look up the various party leader's backgrounds and experience, I only see one likely to make the changes that everyone agrees are needed.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Alberta would benefit tremendously from having a fresh new government. The conservatives have benefitted from nothing but high oil prices. What about their legacy fund? Right, the cons spent it. 

Voting the NDP into Alberta would be a wonderful thing for albertans to give themselves.


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

Eder said:


> I voted Wildrose last time as I saw Redford was actually a Liberal on a PC ticket...this time I already voted....PC this time as Prentice is the best guy for the job here.


Same here though I haven't voted yet.

Ashin, you say a tax increase would be good for the long run but sounds like your voting for "no new tax" wildrose...


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Prentice? You've got to be joking. Did yo see him in the debates? That guy's a joke.

If that guy gets in after all the fiscal mismanagement of the province for the last decade, pork barrel politics and short sighted policies then Albertan's are more stupid than the country thinks they are.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Read the Wikipedia article on the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust_Fund

The PC's stopped putting a share of oil royalties into it in 1987. For a few years they spent earnings on "special Projects". Since the mid 90's all income from the fund has gone into general revenues. This has helped Alberta keep income tax rates down, and avoid a sales tax. But it has done nothing to pursue the original objectives of the fund.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I always find it odd that conservatives (and republicans for that matter) have this party line that they are good with money although time and time again, and this is supported by data, they've been shown to be tremendously good at one thing: financial mismanagement. It's such a joke I have NO idea how they continue to convince people otherwise. The data are clear. Voting got the conservatives is a vote for the lame status quo that is alberta (and without tremendous amounts of oil revenue coming in anymore Alberta is going to be crappy place to live).


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I also voted Wild Rose last time, to my dismay they lost due to a few stupid moves on their party. I am not happy with the PCs and do think we need change 

To be honest, I still haven't decided who I will vote for. Last on my list is NDP. That could be one of the worst things for our province . It doesn't leave much choice.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

It is a challenge. Eight years of mismanagement, lies, broken promises etc. by the Conservatives. They do not earn my vote. Besides more that 10 years is long enough for any regime. We in Alberta are 44 plus years. The Conservatives are well past their best before date. 

I do not view spending $28M on an election that was not needed and not wanted as fiscally prudent given our economic situation. Really, what kind of managers are they??

Their campaign has been incredibly sloppy with lots of gaffes. Prentice has not performed well....he reminds me of a deer in the headlights.

Wild Rose views on social issues and environmental issues places them in the same league as the Flat Earth Society. No thanks.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Personally, I'm happy Alberta is turning into a competitive multiparty democracy. 44 years of single party rule is not a healthy state of affairs.


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

I wanted change too but I vote based on platforms. I want the best party for the future. Don't care to spite the incumbents if it means net loss to society. I'm no righty either.. Voted lib last fed by-election.

If someone has a compelling case for another party, I'm all ears.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Personally, I'm happy Alberta is turning into a competitive multiparty democracy. 44 years of single party rule is not a healthy state of affairs.


Isn't this what we thought last time out?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It could be Prentice misjudged the sentiments of the electorate. 

He wouldn't be the first politician to do so and all those years of Conservative governments could have made him a little too self confident.

He should have established some credibility and then called an election.

There isn't a politician in North America who isn't claiming they will create untold numbers of new jobs, change the system and blah, blah, blah.

Specifics is where it always gets murky and the politicians are all thin on examples.

Journalists are lousy at their jobs these days as well. They don't challenge the interviewee for specifics for fear of being shut out of the press briefings.

Interviews with politicians sound exactly like interviews with NHL hockey players.

"Yea, we are going to dig deep, continue to work hard and give our best effort" and blah, blah, blah.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

A vote for the NDP is a vote for crippling taxes and debt in reality. This is what happened to BC every time we voted them in and the same union people who wanted them had to vote them out because they couldn't afford the taxes and the loss of jobs that came with them. Of course they have great ideas but they never come up with a credible plan to pay for their plans and ideas.

For the record I am not against unions or for the conservatives or anything like that.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

dogcom said:


> A vote for the NDP is a vote for crippling taxes and debt in reality. This is what happened to BC every time we voted them in and the same union people who wanted them had to vote them out because they couldn't afford the taxes and the loss of jobs that came with them. Of course they have great ideas but they never come up with a credible plan to pay for their plans and ideas.
> 
> For the record I am not against unions or for the conservatives or anything like that.


Come on, debt in BC has skyrocketed under the Liberals. They've also raised taxes on the middle class quite dramatically, albeit in a stealthy manner (MSP premiums, ferry fares, hydro, ICBC siphoning into general revenue, used car tax increased from 7% to 12%, etc). Sure, they love to point out how they cut income tax but when you weigh in all the fees they've increased you're actually paying more than you were under the NDP. They've also done nothing to stop foriegn ownership of real estate which is contributing to the outrageous prices making home ownership in Vancouver a dream for most people.

BC Debt: http://www.taxtips.ca/statistics/bcdebt.htm


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I never said I liked BC Liberals either, just telling you what happens under the NDP.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

Well, I'm not very political, but originally from Saskatchewan. NDP there since all the conservatives went to jail when I was a kid. They seem to be doing ok. A have province for a while now. The new Sask Party are just the conservatives that got out of jail. Still, a change to them was good overall. Parties get entrenched. You need change sometimes . You get used to the taxes. Didn't even notice the pst. Loved the hst that was briefly in bc. Only bonehead move was taking potash corp public. Great for investors, but oooh the lost revenue. All utilities still government owned and feeding the coffers. Wild rose strikes me as the tea baggers in the states. Won't want to be poor or gay if they win and ya better love goin to happy clappy church. Like NDP good ideas but implementation? No useful party in the province - from an outside observer.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

PC will win regardless who you vote for though I don't support them. Most of the Albertans are like dog's tail that cannot be straightened. Voter turnout would be low, PC will win and screw Albertans again from Wednesday.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> I also voted Wild Rose last time, to my dismay they lost due to a few stupid moves on their party. I am not happy with the PCs and do think we need change
> 
> To be honest, I still haven't decided who I will vote for. Last on my list is NDP. *That could be one of the worst things for our province* . It doesn't leave much choice.


What happened to the billion of dollars in the Heritage fund? Spent and wasted it like drunken sailors in times of plenty and nothing left now for a 'rainy day"? 
Remember the song that came out of the 'dirty thirties'?
"Once I built a railroad (oil fund in Alberta's case) to the sun, made it run, now it's done..brother can you spare a dime".

Ontario tried the NDP in the 90s once. It was a recessionary high interest rate period. Bob Rae told us all "we will attempt to spend our way out of this recession'...
not a good approach to hide the pain. Took many years and i don't believe they left with a balanced budget either. The NDP didn't have a clue on how to run the province fiscally....now we have basically the same thing with our Fiberals.



> The NDP's first budget proudly stated that it was "fighting the recession, not the deficit," as if Ontario could singlehandedly spend its way out of the recession. The Rae government began to "own" the recession. But the decline continued. Public services demanded and got annual increases of more than 5 per cent even though inflation had fallen into the 2 per cent range. *The impression was left of a rich, free-spending government and a poor, cash-strapped people.*


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## ashin1 (Mar 22, 2014)

I truly do believe that if our goverment raised taxes for the sole intend on pounding off our provinces debt at a faster rate would be marvelous. Yeah of course no one wants to pay extra taxes, but thats the harsh reality. This is a money forum filled with many long term savers and frugalist, im sure there are at least a few people on this forum who would agree. However, the majority of the people see raised taxes and they freak out because they feel as those they have a sense of entitlement, they want a fiscally strong province yet no one wants to cough up the extra bucks to secure our financial stability. im sorry but you can have the cake and eat it too. 

I choose to not vote for NDP, though their intentions are good i think they lack the forsight to carry this province out of debt(majority of the party consist of young adults still in college, they are student. I do not mean to discriminate, but i truly do believe that matters like these need to be put into the hands of someone who has lived a longer life time a.k.a more wise, and more aware on how the world works), they are too busy trying to win people's hearts with over optimisim. I choose not to Vote PC because Jim Prentice's actions speak a whole lot louder than his words.


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

Let’s see ourselves "The Alberta Leaders' Debate" then go from there.

The Alberta Leaders' Debate in 30 Minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oV5rfzffMc

The Alberta Leaders debate from April 23, 2015.: (90min.)
http://globalnews.ca/news/1976567/a...back-at-the-twists-and-turns-of-the-campaign/


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

carverman said:


> What happened to the billion of dollars in the Heritage fund? Spent and wasted it like drunken sailors in times of plenty and nothing left now for a 'rainy day"?
> Remember the song that came out of the 'dirty thirties'?
> "Once I built a railroad (oil fund in Alberta's case) to the sun, made it run, now it's done..brother can you spare a dime".
> 
> ...


I agree the heritag fund was wasted and that there were many opportunities for the government to be saving. For that reason, I will for a change, so not PC, but I don't see NDP be a saving party either.



ashin1 said:


> I truly do believe that if our goverment raised taxes for the sole intend on pounding off our provinces debt at a faster rate would be marvelous. Yeah of course no one wants to pay extra taxes, but thats the harsh reality. This is a money forum filled with many long term savers and frugalist, im sure there are at least a few people on this forum who would agree. However, the majority of the people see raised taxes and they freak out because they feel as those they have a sense of entitlement, they want a fiscally strong province yet no one wants to cough up the extra bucks to secure our financial stability. im sorry but you can have the cake and eat it too.
> 
> I choose to not vote for NDP, though their intentions are good i think they lack the forsight to carry this province out of debt(majority of the party consist of young adults still in college, they are student. I do not mean to discriminate, but i truly do believe that matters like these need to be put into the hands of someone who has lived a longer life time a.k.a more wise, and more aware on how the world works), they are too busy trying to win people's hearts with over optimisim. I choose not to Vote PC because Jim Prentice's actions speak a whole lot louder than his words.


I share almost all you sentiments. I was expecting a higher increase in taxes, and would be okay that if it was used to reduce debt. I am not okay to increase states just to spend more.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I watched the leaders debate...generally it was Notley interrupting & talking over the other 3 who seemed to polite to tell her to shut up and let them finish. Poor moderation but the debate seemed a waste of time.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Wildrose and Liberals should have stayed home, and Prentice looked unprepared.

Notley struck gold when she pointed out that Ontario cut corporate taxes and lost jobs while BC increased corporate taxes and gained jobs.

Prentice didn't seem to know how to respond to that.

Notley's discussion on 12,000 kids going to school with no new teachers will strike home to parents of young kids. No parents want their kids in overcrowded classrooms.

Prentice's response about meeting minimum standards in staffing was not what parents want to hear.

I think the observers are right and Notley won the debate hands down.

Will that translate into votes for the NDP remains to be seen.

I am pretty confident that as a minimum the NDP will gain seats and some PC members will be out of work.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> T
> I think the observers are right and Notley won the debate hands down.
> 
> Will that translate into votes for the NDP remains to be seen.
> ...


She's a lawyer and a unionist. No doubt she will get the swing vote, but whether she can convince Albertans to give her a majority?

Going back to our Ontario election, it was similar with Horwath (NDP) she was convinced she had the union vote, but in the end the
unionists decided on the pedagogue instead, who is now taking us down the garden path of higher debt and deficit in the next 3 years. 
What's left to sell off?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Going back to our Ontario election, it was similar with *Horwath* (NDP) she was convinced she had the union vote......


Triggering the election for no good reason. 

Following this one with interest.

Good luck.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Still on the fence. Ashin, you got any thoughts on the WR two tiered healthcare system they propose? I don't see any downside, but I'm not at all versed in the medical field and how it is funded. I wish Atrp2biz and his Dr. Mrs. were in this thread to clarify the healthcare proposal.

I think we haven't given Prentice a fair shake after Redford's shameful exit, and that it is too easy to blame him for previous mismanagement. 

I think I like he WR platform the best, but I thought BJ was god-awful in the debate. He actually seemed dumb/slow-witted, while the rest merely seemed incompetent. NDP leader was the clearest and best spoken, sure, but what she was saying was loonie toons.

I am not even considering NDP or Liberal, obviously.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> The Wildrose and Liberals should have stayed home, and Prentice looked unprepared.


Even if Prentice didn't do as well in the debate, In Alberta, the status quo will persevere. 
The establishment.... (big oil, banking etc) is not going to let a bunch of novices take over the reins of a "chuckwagon with two loose wheels already'...
bad policy decisions on top of a stagnant economy is not time to think about "robbing peter to pay paul" in partisan politics.

Slow and steady as she goes should be the elected captain's orders...the fiscal lifesavers are no longer there. 



> Notley struck gold when she pointed out that Ontario cut corporate taxes and lost jobs while BC increased corporate taxes and gained jobs.


Each province has unique set of circumstances and unique industry..you cannot just use examples from one province to implement similar measures
in another. 



> Notley's discussion on 12,000 kids going to school with no new teachers will strike home to parents of young kids. No parents want their kids in overcrowded classrooms.


Right!..and who is going to increase the education budget to pay for all these new teachers? Where is the money going to come from?



> Prentice's response about meeting minimum standards in staffing was not what parents want to hear.


Prentice has woken up and facing the reality..there is no money for pie in the sky ideas right now. Ya gotta make do with what you have. 
Overcrowded classrooms closing some schools may be necessary for the current situation. 
Do Alberta property tax payers want to see the education component of their property taxes
increased dramatically to allow better public school facilities? Sure, but does the "Notely Crue" have solutions that are not going to add to the 
provincial debt load already?


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