# Huge problem with Canadian immigration



## sags (May 15, 2010)

What a mess.

Our grandson's mom is a UK citizen and has lived in Canada for the past 15 years.

She is a permanent resident and has a PR card.

Her parents and sister moved back to Europe and she went there to visit with our grandson last week.

Apparently that didn't go well and they all got into huge family arguments and aren't talking anymore.

She was getting on the plane in the UK to come back, and they pull her off the plane.

Her PR card expired in 2017 and they won't let her board the plane.

So she is stuck in the UK, while everything she owns and owes debt on remains in Canada.

She is sending our 13 year old grandson home on a flight tomorrow by himself, as she can't fly. I am not thrilled about that.

From what I researched she requires a PRTD......permanent resident travel document to return to Canada.

Anyone know anything about those "visa centres" that provide them, what is required, and how long they take ?

She told my son to "sell all her stuff" because she doesn't think she will be allowed back immediately.

An apartment full of her things, a car which likely has debt attached to it, a couple of cats............cripes.

Unbelievable.....and it happens that she didn't renew even after he own grandmother was forced to leave Canada because her PR card expired.

They are one seriously dysfunctional family.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Can the Canadian embassy sort it out ?
> 
> What a mess.


This is nothing

Canada left Afghans for dead who supported us for decades. Only when it hit the mainstream media did they try to "sort it out"

It's better than a monarchy I suppose. Then again read the first page of your passport and try calling the Queen


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sorry about the Afghans but they aren't Canadian citizens like our grandson is, so I expect the Canadian embassy should at least assist his return.

I also don't understand why they couldn't let her fly to Canada and detain her at customs in Toronto for further investigation.

As she requires a PRTD, it involves proving her residency in Canada which could be done at the Toronto airport.


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## MrsPartridge (May 15, 2016)

I wonder if she can come on a UK passport as a tourist instead. Those PRs are a headache and it's best to start the process to be a citizen to avoid all the requirements like documenting each time you leave the country etc.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Unfortunate circumstances indeed. Hopefully, the desired resolve is achieved and she is able to return. However, does she not bear some responsibility to ensure that she had all her docs in order? Based on what you provided has she been a non resident since 2017? Having been in Canada for 15 years is it likely she would have gone through a renewal prior to 2017?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Oh yea....she bears *all* the responsibility for her position.

Funny thing is.....I drove them to the airport and specifically asked her if she had their passports, covid tests and everything in order before we left.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> Sorry about the Afghans but they aren't Canadian citizens like our grandson is, so I expect the *Canadian embassy should at least assist his return.*
> 
> I also don't understand why they couldn't let her fly to Canada and detain her at customs in Toronto for further investigation.
> 
> As she requires a PRTD, it involves proving her residency in Canada which could be done at the Toronto airport.


Sorry this is happening to your grandson and son. Your son doesn't need assistant to return as a Canadian citizen. He is old enough to legally fly assuming he has his paperwork in order. Of course they are not allowed to let her fly with him, because SHE legally is not allowed. If the concern is that your grandson is too young to fly by himself (which I totally understand especially if there are flight connections), then the parents can hire an airline escort to help him at their cost. That should be the Canadian embassy's job.

In terms of the PR work, I have know several people who messed up and didn't do it right or let their PR's expire. In almost all cases except one, they didn't end up coming back. In the one case, it was a teacher who was here on a special program, they end up have a child here, it took them lots of lawyers and over 2 years before she was allowed back. 

I wish you family luck, it is a real pain


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Sorry about the Afghans but they aren't Canadian citizens like our grandson is, so I expect the Canadian embassy should at least assist his return.
> 
> I also don't understand why they couldn't let her fly to Canada and detain her at customs in Toronto for further investigation.
> 
> As she requires a PRTD, it involves proving her residency in Canada which could be done at the Toronto airport.


Neither is your gandson's mother. You said she is a UK citizen and chose to leave Canada

She is not in danger and did not risk her life for Canadians for decades

Welcome to modern day government we pay taxes for


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

sags said:


> She told my son to "sell all her stuff" because she doesn't think she will be allowed back immediately.


This does not make sense. Either she's several levels of stupid or she never intended to come back and found this convenient pretext.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Sorry about the Afghans but they aren't Canadian citizens like our grandson is, so I expect the Canadian embassy should at least assist his return.


I agree, Canadian citizens should obviously be top priority!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I am really short on sympathy for people who travel without making sure their documents are in order.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

off.by.10 said:


> This does not make sense. Either she's several levels of stupid or she never intended to come back and found this convenient pretext.


Yea......it could very well be the case.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I agree, Canadian citizens should obviously be top priority!


She was an illegal immigrant NOT a Canadian citizen

Probably been using public services for 15 years without paying taxes. The Afghans risked their life for Canadians and were promised protection

She is a UK citizen and returned to her own country voluntarily


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> What a mess.
> 
> Our grandson's mom is a UK citizen and has lived in Canada for the past 15 years.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is that your grandsons mother wants to enter Canada without the appropriate travel documentation and that CBSA blocked her is a problem?

Just to be clear immigration is a huge mess, but one of the basic ideas is that you should have to display appropriate documentation that they are able to legally enter a country.
She doesn't have documentation to enter the country and was rightly blocked from doing so.
If she gets her travel documents in order there shouldn't be any problems.



m3s said:


> She was an illegal immigrant NOT a Canadian citizen


No she was a PR, which is a legal status in Canada



> Probably been using public services for 15 years without paying taxes.


All residents of Canada have to pay the applicable taxes irrespective of citizenship or immigration status.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It probably was Stephen Harper and Pierre Poilivre who lied to the Afghans.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The government keeps records of PR residents, so I don't know why expiration is such a big deal.

All the information needed is available to them in government data systems.

I don't understand why she couldn't have flown to Toronto and been detained there until it was worked out.

An expired PR doesn't prevent people from returning to Canada by private means......only commercial transport.

It isn't terribly complicated to get a PRTD........except to find a place to get it done. The only one listed in England is in London.

I read that one "work around" is to fly to the US and enter Canada via a private vehicle.

People who arrive to Canada in private jets or yachts also don't need a PR because.........well, they are rich.

The problem is it takes time to set up and requires certain other documents that she likely isn't carrying on her person.

In any event, I don't have a lot of confidence in that Alghabra transport guy. He looks frazzled all the time.

I think Trudeau made a mistake there and it is costing the Liberals some support.

The airports all jammed up and covid rules are wonky,....yup, it is time for a few cabinet changes.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The government keeps records of PR residents, so I don't know why expiration is such a big deal.


Because it was outdated, she just needs new documents.



> I don't understand why she couldn't have flown to Toronto and been detained there until it was worked out.


We don't have immigration detention facilities.



> I think Trudeau made a mistake there and it is costing the Liberals some support.
> 
> The airports all jammed up and covid rules are wonky,....yup, it is time for a few cabinet changes.


Too bad we didn't have thousands of people protesting in Ottawa about how bad a job Trudeau is doing.

Oh wait, he we did, he called them terrorists.

I don't think it will cost Trudeau anything, Liberal supports are notoriously blind to his incompetence.

But Kudos on catching up that the Federal COVID restrictions are ridiculous at this point and being poorly managed, you're only 4-6 months behind the rest of us.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> *The government keeps records of PR residents, so I don't know why expiration is such a big deal.*
> All the information needed is available to them in government data systems.


It's the same reason why people need to have up to date passports even as a citizen. Those are the rules. 




> I don't understand why she couldn't have flown to Toronto and been detained there until it was worked out.


 And have her go where? Oversized baggage? Why should people have to pay for her to be detained when she didn't get her stuff together. 



> An expired PR doesn't prevent people from returning to Canada by private means......only commercial transport.
> I read that one "work around" is to fly to the US and enter Canada via a private vehicle.
> People who arrive to Canada in private jets or yachts also don't need a PR because.........well, they are rich.


Not sure about this. It is a work around for when you are getting your PR, you must leave the country and then come back in, but it's when all the paper work is done. It still checked. 



> The problem is it takes time to set up and requires certain other documents that she likely isn't carrying on her person.


The problem is, she didn't have her crap together. The responsibility and onus is on her to know this stuff. When my nannies went be back home, we always went through everything to make sure things were in check before they left. Some of their friends learned the hard way that you must have valid papers. A few of my friends couldn't bring back their nannies because of these issues of expired PR or wrong paper work. Whenever we knew someone leaving like this, I always asked them to double check.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

sags said:


> Anyone know anything about those "visa centres" that provide them, what is required, and how long they take ?


I believe a lot of these services have been outsourced to third party for-profit companies. Canada as well as the rest of the western world. Lowers visa processing costs for the govt, no expensive headcount. Convenient in the case when something goes wrong, the government can say it was their fault.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I've worked in a handful of countries on Visas and visited another handful on Visas

In my experience the 3rd partys are there to help with things like language barriers or poor administrative skills. If you can read and fill our a passport or license form you can probably handle a Visa application

You definitely need to DYOR. Often times the border agents will let you through without the proper stamp or document and that will bite you later


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

She doesn’t need a visa. She needs a Permanent Resident Travel Document that confirms she has a PR and will allow her entry one time. 

Then she can get her PR renewed when she gets back to Canada.

The embassy in UK is getting her one but it will take 2 weeks.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Because it was outdated, she just needs new documents.
> 
> 
> We don't have immigration detention facilities.
> ...


They don’t have enough workers or kiosks . They didn’t anticipate the rush to travel and prepare for it.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> She doesn’t need a visa. She needs a Permanent Resident Travel Document that confirms she has a PR and will allow her entry one time. Then she can get her PR renewed.
> 
> The embassy in UK is getting her one but it will take 2 weeks.


 ... is there any argument with Immigration Canada that it's cruel to seperate son from mother during this time? Hopefully the embassy speeds up her PR Travel doc in consideration of this.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The latest in this sad tale of woe......is the embassy said they can't do anything for her. The local visa office has "limited services" due to covid restrictions.

They suggested she go to a library and fill out an electronic application, because she can't do it in with her phone or at the hotel (something about Adobe software doesn't match).

If......she can apply from the library, she would have to "securely" send her passport to a visa center and wait for it to come back stamped with a PRTD.

Since she has no address in the UK.....I have no idea where they would send the stamped passport back to. Maybe she would have to pick it up in person.

Our son knows a guy who lives in Liverpool, UK and he is calling all over trying to help with no success.

At this point she is going around in circles from one place to another and can't find assistance anywhere.

I think the best thing is for her to fly back to Spain to stay with her grandmother and apply at a visa office from there. She is going to be there for awhile.

Our grandson is supposed to be on a flight home right now that arrives at 4 pm in Toronto. 

If you are traveling anywhere outside of Canada make sure your paperwork is in order and you don't lose your passport or PR card, or you are screwed.

It is hard to believe the Canadian embassy can't do anything if you need help.

I understand she isn't a Canadian citizen but our grandson is and the Canadian embassy did nothing for him.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

sags said:


> It is hard to believe the Canadian embassy can't do anything if you need help.
> 
> I understand she isn't a Canadian citizen but our grandson is and the Canadian embassy did nothing for him.


Well, the grandson didn't need any help, he's arriving on a flight right now. What did you want them to do?

I do agree it's disappointing the embassy couldn't help with the PR document for your daughter-in-law, though. That feels like something that should be in their wheelhouse. But I guess it's not.

The Spanish VAC has the same restrictions as the UK one (only accepting PRTD applications via post/courier), so I don't think going to Spain will help unless it's because she has a free place to stay there and she doesn't in the UK.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yea.......they worked it out with no thanks to the embassy, who couldn't care less if he was wandering the streets all night.

If you don't expect anything from your politicians or public servants.......that is exactly what you will get.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> She doesn’t need a visa. She needs a Permanent Resident Travel Document that confirms she has a PR and will allow her entry one time.
> 
> Then she can get her PR renewed when she gets back to Canada.
> 
> The embassy in UK is getting her one but it will take 2 weeks.


Same basic principles apply

Make sure your ducks are in a row before you cross any border

I know people who got imprisoned for messing this up


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Did she actually go to the embassy though? Or just contact them? From what a friend who has a habit of loosing stuff once told me, once you walk into the embassy in person, they have a way to sort out pretty much any situation. Remotely, not so much.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> If......she can apply from the library, she would have to "securely" send her passport to a visa center and wait for it to come back stamped with a PRTD.
> 
> Since she has no address in the UK.....I have no idea where they would send the stamped passport back to. Maybe she would have to pick it up in person.


Happens all the time

I had my work Visa sent to a random Canada Post office in BC because I had to start driving towards Alaska from Quebec without the work Visa. I had to reapply for a Visa extension from Alaska to move to continental US. Everything is online nowadays (depends on the country I suppose) You see a lot of long time travelers will settle down in an AirBNB for weeks just to mail out passports for Visas. It's an archaic boomer government process.

In a few years when we're all using web3 crypto wallets and blockchain technology to transfer travel documents using NFT metadata these will be old boomer horror stories


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Since the documents expire, I don't think a blockchain will improve the situation much. Renewals would still be necessary.

If.......blockchain would solve such problems, I would start investing in it for sure. The more you dig into the current system.....the worse it gets.

It baffles me why an expired PR is only an issue if you arrive by "commercial" transportation.

If you arrive by private vehicle.........no problem.

A PRTD is a pretty simple concept that they have somehow made as complicated as possible.

Basically, you could arrive and customs discover it is expired. They check on the data system to verify the PR is valid and issue a one time PRTD on the spot.

They already do criminal record checks for people arriving by commercial transportation, and other ID can be used for residency purposes.

They also have a record of earnings on the CRA database. A few mouse clicks and all done. It could be verified by customs in a couple of minutes.

Watching the reality shows on television, customs does "secondary" checking of arrivals all day long.

Anyone entering any country is at the discretion of customs officers. My dad was turned away at the US border for no reason at all.

When he asked the customs officer what the reason was........the reply was that he didn't need a reason.

Why the need to go to a third party for profit visa office........when most of them are closed or offer limited services ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

off.by.10 said:


> Did she actually go to the embassy though? Or just contact them? From what a friend who has a habit of loosing stuff once told me, once you walk into the embassy in person, they have a way to sort out pretty much any situation. Remotely, not so much.


She just contacted them. It sounds like she didn't get past whoever answered the phone. 

They told her to go to a library because the system was messed up and wouldn't work with computer software on her phone or hotel computer.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I agree it is a personal responsibility issue.....but people do forget, they do lose their passports and documents, and they do have them stolen.

That is reality and there should be less onerous solutions that recognize the reality.

If nobody had their PR expire......there wouldn't be a need for a PRTD. The problem is how difficult they are to get.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Since the documents expire, I don't think a blockchain will improve the situation much. Renewals would still be necessary.
> 
> *If.......blockchain would solve such problems, I would start investing in it for sure. The more you dig into the current system.....the worse it gets.*


Blockchains can certainly solve such problems. A travel document is a great use case for NFTs. Would be far cheaper and more efficient

I have utility NFTs that have a 1 year promo rate. Activated on demand and expires after one year. Blockchains have very accurate time because all nodes need to be in sync.. Decentralized identities and on chain voting is already being developed and tested by governments.

US Space Force is developing blockchain. Doesn't happen overnight but it's coming



sags said:


> It baffles me why an expired PR is only an issue if you arrive by "commercial" transportation.
> 
> If you arrive by private vehicle.........no problem.
> 
> A PRTD is a pretty simple concept that they have somehow made as complicated as possible.


Like many things sags

Way too many boomers who are scared of change keeping us stuck in the past. If you don't travel much or deal with government it's somebody else's problem

Now all of a sudden you see how far behind we are at adopting efficient new technology because "we've always done it this way"


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yup........we haven't traveled much other than to the US and on a cruise ship where customs is handled on the ship.

I had no idea how complicated it is and have even less interest in travel now.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> Yea.......they worked it out with no thanks to the embassy, who couldn't care less if he was wandering the streets all night.
> 
> If you don't expect anything from your politicians or public servants.......that is exactly what you will get.


In all fairness, I don't expect public servants or politician to take care of my kids, when I can't be bothered to make sure my paper is in order, or that I as a parent can't be responsible enough for my actions to make sure my child is never in this scenario.

Why would the mother let your grandson wander the streets all night because she isn't allowed on the flight. That's on her. Is she not allowed at the airport. I would be my kid to the security part, until they didn't let me go further, and then pay for someone to help my kid to the gate if I was that concerned. If I didn't want to pay, I would at least wait at the airport on the non secure side, and track my kid until the plane left. That's if I was worried out them wandering by themselves. I can't say I would expect a politician, public servant or any one else to do that for me unless I was paying them. 

I wish your grandson safe travels. At least it will build his confidence and independence at 13. Flying for the first time by yourself can be stressful, but when you do it, it's a great feeling, even if he didn't choose this for himself.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> They don’t have enough workers or kiosks . They didn’t anticipate the rush to travel and prepare for it.





sags said:


> Yea.......they worked it out with no thanks to the embassy, who couldn't care less if he was wandering the streets all night.
> 
> If you don't expect anything from your politicians or public servants.......that is exactly what you will get.



I don't, that's why I want the government to butt out and do as little as possible.

The thing I don't get, is you constantly have problems with government provided services (here, previous health care etc).

Why would you want to give MORE power and MORE responsibility. It seems like you've had even more trouble with them than I have.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> I agree it is a personal responsibility issue.....but people do forget, they do lose their passports and documents, and they do have them stolen.
> 
> That is reality and there should be less onerous solutions that recognize the reality.
> 
> If nobody had their PR expire......there wouldn't be a need for a PRTD. The problem is how difficult they are to get.


I would agree its a real pain for government issued documents. It was hell getting my kids first adult passport this year. There are some things that we have always been taught travelling. We have copies (now photos) of all of our documents, so we only take out the passport when absolutely necessary. It is also easier to trace if it gets lost or stolen. We guard our passports or documents with our life and triple and quadruple check all the requirements. 

We learned this when our cousin was overseas, and Canada/North American passport were big black market thing especially if you are a certain demographic (younger male). My cousin was approached by a couple of fully uniformed and armed military police doing and id check. They should have just pulled out a photo copy and maybe a drivers license, instead gave their passport. The people were cons and took off with the id. My cousin had to go to the embassy (physically walked in), and it took him an 3 weeks to get back home. They said they were terrified, and then had issues with their passport for that cycle and the cycle after.

In the case of the PR, it expired in 2017, 5 years ago BEFORE Covid. There really wasn't an excuse for this.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I agree there is no excuse for her not checking, especially when I specifically asked her.

Another issue with immigration on the CBC website today.

_Manager Sue Provencher said *C&E Feeds serves up to a dozen Canadian and American travellers a day*, many sent there by local CBSA officers.
CBSA "asked us if we would [help], because they were having to turn around a lot of people," she said. 

Many people requesting assistance are seniors, said Provencher.

"A lot of the older people don't have computer access. They don't have cell phones, they don't have laptops and tablets and they don't know how to use them."
The CBSA confirmed that officers sometimes provide inquiring travellers with information on places offering ArriveCAN assistance. _

A feed store helping customs and immigration.............LOL.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/arrivecan-app-border-1.6472060


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> A feed store helping customs and immigration.............LOL.


Because a feed store is more competent than the Trudeau government..

Come on it isn't like the opposition hasn't been raising this concerns continuously. They're known issues.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> We learned this when our cousin was overseas, and Canada/North American passport were big black market thing especially if you are a certain demographic (younger male). My cousin was approached by a couple of fully uniformed and armed military police doing and id check. They should have just pulled out a photo copy and maybe a drivers license, instead gave their passport. The people were cons and took off with the id. My cousin had to go to the embassy (physically walked in), and it took him an 3 weeks to get back home. They said they were terrified, and then had issues with their passport for that cycle and the cycle after.
> 
> In the case of the PR, it expired in 2017, 5 years ago BEFORE Covid. There really wasn't an excuse for this.


Yea no sympathy

I have multiple passports and dozens of government IDs. PITA to keep up to date but have to be taken seriously. I have some expired that I couldn't renew before leaving Canada and now I can't just pop up to Canada for a picture and this ID would be confiscated if I try to use it expired

Again I know people who have been jailed for ignorantly misusing the wrong passport (using a diplomat one on tourist travel to Turkey) You don't mess around with government stuff or you find out just how much freedom we really have

We're all just numbers. Try living or going undocumented anywhere nowadays


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

For my sister she applied for passport well ahead, got it granted, and then Immigration/Canada Post lost it, ended up shipping it to wrong place - accepting signature of some random person.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> What a mess.
> 
> Our grandson's mom is a UK citizen and has lived in Canada for the past 15 years.
> 
> ...


To the extent this thread has turned into a general kvetching session about the IRCC, it seems out of place. This lies wholly at the feet of the seriously dysfunctional family. The whole debacle displays some seriously deficient judgment and, most likely, mental illness.

I mean, how inane is it to travel with a kid all the way to Europe and get into an unresolvable family feud? Also, although not clear, it seems possible that, but for said feud, the visit would be ongoing. When were granny and kid booked to come home initially anyway? It sounds like granny, in a fit of pique, moved up the time to return to Canada and then was met with the immigration issue. 

And why the rush to send the kid home on his own? We are told the problem can be solved in about 2 weeks. Cannot granny and the kid hang out together over there for 2 weeks and come home together? But, even if, for some obscure reason, it is imperative for the kid to come home on the double, what's the big deal? He's 13, not a baby. I was flying by myself at age 9. My son has been flying on his own at least since that age. The only difference from when I was a kid is that airlines have smartened up and figured out they can take you for a hefty "unaccompanied minor fee" for each leg of the journey for children under 12.

Is the worry that the kid will return to Canada and have no one waiting here, no home to which to go? Heck, were he one of JAG's precocious toddlers, he would rent a car at YYZ, drive himself to the Royal York and check in to a nice suite for a couple of weeks, waiting for granny.

The notion of precipitously sending the kid home is a bit daft, but not nearly so much so as the "sell all my stuff" edict.

Getting back to the IRCC. I certainly have little to say that is good about that august body. But any perceived shortcoming in this case pales in comparison to what is happening to a great many families. For years, the usual wait period for processing a spousal visa from abroad was in the range of one year. Recently it has doubled to 2 years. So, Trudeau's words about "family reunification" priority ring hollow indeed. Processing times for tourist visas (now called TRVs) have expanded exponentially. Much of this is, no doubt, related to the high priority being given to any from the Ukraine who want to jump ship, plus a bunch from Afghanistan. Meanwhile, Canadian citizens seeking to be reunited with spouses and kids can feel good growing old waiting, while others are cordially invited to jump the queue, including the unquenchable flow at Roxham Road, which seems well-established as a permanent open sesame to Canada. 









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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We are relieved that our grandson landed and after a 2 hour delay at customs is with his dad driving on the 401 highway on the way home.

How it unfolds further for his mom......is up to her and her very dysfunctional family there.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> Much of this is, no doubt, related to the high priority being given to any from the Ukraine who want to jump ship, plus a bunch from Afghanistan. Meanwhile, Canadian citizens seeking to be reunited with spouses and kids can feel good growing old waiting, while others are cordially invited to jump the queue, including the unquenchable flow at Roxham Road, which seems well-established as a permanent open sesame to Canada.


If they are prioritizing Ukraine or Afghanistan I haven't seen it. I keep contact with friends in both countries

People are being slaughtered who were promised refugee status to Canada if they became at risk. They didn't need to help us and risk their own families. What a mess

saggy's ol granny-in-law brought this entirely on herself and is now unnecessarily wasting immigration resources


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The granny was never involved, nor did I ever post she was. She was deported when her PR expired because she couldn't show any income source.

Granny's involvement was only that they traveled to Spain to visit with her.

Our grandson.....who is a Canadian citizen, and his mother who is a UK citizen with a PR for Canada were the ones involved with customs.

I do admit that I would prioritize every Canadian citizen's rights over any foreigner, regardless of broken promises made decades ago.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Mukhang pera said:


> Heck, were he one of JAG's precocious toddlers, he would rent a car at YYZ, drive himself to the Royal York and check in to a nice suite for a couple of weeks, waiting for granny.


I rather think he'd have bought a tent at the airport, lived in it for a while and sold it for a profit when mom finally got home.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

m3s said:


> If they are prioritizing Ukraine or Afghanistan I haven't seen it. I keep contact with friends in both countries


This is just some of what the IRCC is saying about it on their website:






Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel measures - Canada.ca


How to apply online for the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel.




www.canada.ca










Canada welcomes first federal charter flight for Ukrainians in Winnipeg - Canada.ca


As part of our commitment to support those fleeing Russia’s unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine, Canada has been working to secure charters for those who need help travelling here. The Government of Canada continues to work closely with provinces and territories, settlement organizations and NGOs...




www.canada.ca





There's lots more, if I took time to go looking.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> The granny was never involved, nor did I ever post she was. She was deported when her PR expired because she couldn't show any income source.


I am sorry. I misspoke in referring to "granny". The fact that the boy is with mom makes the whole mess even more ridiculous.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> I do admit that I would prioritize every Canadian citizen's rights over any foreigner, regardless of broken promises made decades ago.


Good thing Trudeau gave $10M to Omar Khadr who attacked us and left the ones who helped us to be slaughtered

Liberals have a special kind of bleeding heart logic that's for sure


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Glad your grandson is home safe. Although travelling alone at that age is not uncommon it is often planned and not under such stressful circumstances.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Good thing Trudeau gave $10M to Omar Khadr who attacked us and left the ones who helped us to be slaughtered
> 
> Liberals have a special kind of bleeding heart logic that's for sure


Didn't Harper give that money to Khadr by exposing the Government of Canada to the liability resulting in his civil suit?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Didn't Harper give that money to Khadr by exposing the Government of Canada to the liability resulting in his civil suit?


The whole things is just multiple layers of government incompetence as usual

Most people in the world could only dream to have a document that permits them cross so many arbitrary lines in the sand

To forget to renew your travel documents and then blame anyone else is just 1st world problems to the extreme


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Didn't Harper give that money to Khadr by exposing the Government of Canada to the liability resulting in his civil suit?


No, Trudeau simply handed him $10M, without even fighting it in court.

Trudeau loves to give taxpayer money to his friends, and he has some pretty horrible friends.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

sags said:


> What a mess ... Her PR card expired in 2017 and they won't let her board the plane ...


Yes ... a self-inflicted mess.




Plugging Along said:


> sags said:
> 
> 
> > *The government keeps records of PR residents, so I don't know why expiration is such a big deal.*
> ...


Lots of gov't services need to have up to date documents to use.

I'm not clear why "caveat emptor" is a problem.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... is there any argument with Immigration Canada that it's cruel to seperate son from mother during this time? Hopefully the embassy speeds up her PR Travel doc in consideration of this.


The grandson is said to be old enough to sell grandma's stuff which implies he likely is 18+. 
I don't see what cruel about that.

Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

sags said:


> I agree it is a personal responsibility issue.....but people do forget, they do lose their passports and documents, and they do have them stolen ...


Which is why they should check _before_ they leave as the example you are talking about is an expired PR for _years_, not a lost one.

FWIW ... my aunt lost a day on her travels as her passport was stolen. 
It was replaced in one day in Rome.




sags said:


> ... If nobody had their PR expire......there wouldn't be a need for a PRTD. The problem is how difficult they are to get.


That's the secondary problem ... not the original problem, in this case.


Cheers


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Eclectic21 said:


> The grandson is said to be old enough to sell grandma's stuff which implies he likely is 18+.
> I don't see what cruel about that.
> 
> Cheers


 ... what grandma or see MP's post #48 for correction. It's sag's grandkid. The kid is 13 years old and we're talking about his unorganized(?) mother (sag's DIL) who brought him there to visit her side of the family (for what reason IDK other than assume it was an emergency/necessary). Now she's stucked in the UK whilst her son gets to fly back. But either way the kid is seperated from his mother and if he's very attached to her then it's a problem. Ie. would seem cruel. Especially you noticed the instructions for her husband to "sell her stuffs" whilst she's away?!.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds a bit unbalanced if she said to sell her possessions when this should take perhaps a few weeks to resolve.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... what grandma or see MP's post #48 for correction. It's sag's grandkid. The kid is 13 years old and we're talking about his unorganized(?) mother (sag's DIL) who brought him there to visit her side of the family (for what reason IDK other than assume it was an emergency/necessary). Now she's stucked in the UK whilst her son gets to fly back. But either way the kid is seperated from his mother and if he's very attached to her then it's a problem. Ie. would seem cruel. Especially you noticed the instructions for her husband to "sell her stuffs" whilst she's away?!.


If the kid at 13 is that attached (which is good for a teenager to still like there parents), then it's all on the mom to get her ducks in a row so stuff like this doesn't happen. If he was really attached, he could have stayed with her in the UK while this gets sorted out. At 13, the teenager though not ideal, should be able to make it safely home. 

it might be cruel. If the kid was under 11 (the age which they can fly unescorted). Even then, the child could stay with mom until dad or someone picks him up from the UK. 

It would be cruel if this was somehow preventable, like not flying without proper documentation that expired 5 years ago. All of this was preventable, not by the government, but by the mom. So you are right, this was pretty cruel of HER to put her son through this.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

sags said:


> Oh yea....she bears *all* the responsibility for her position.


I also think she is overreacting in assuming she won't ever be able to reenter Canada.

The issue is not Canadian border control, but the airline. She would almost certainly be able to reenter Canada with almost any ID -- expired PR card, driving license, health card -- or even with no ID at all. CBP has a process for looking up people who are entitled to enter but have no docs and while it takes hours, it does work. The problem here is the airline and they will not accept the liability of possibly having to bring back someone who IS ineligible for entry to Canada. And they will be total sticklers for documentation because they have no choice.

As for the family circumstances, gosh, family is family. You can't guess what dynamics are occurring.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A lot of parents wouldn't send their 13 year old downtown by themselves.

I wouldn't either but maybe we are too cautious. Our downtown is pretty sketchy.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> A lot of parents wouldn't send their 13 year old downtown by themselves.
> 
> I wouldn't either but maybe we are too cautious. Our downtown is pretty sketchy.


I would say an airport is much safer than downtown. There is a higher chance that my kid ends up on the wrong train or bus in a sketchy part of town (this has happened many times as my kids are learning the transit system here) vs they end up on the wrong plane in another city or country. I had been sending my kids downtown (together though) to meet me when they were 9 & 12 during the summer just so they could practice the bus. 

The worst that is going to happen to my kid at an airport once they cross security is they will goto the wrong gates, miss a flight, get stuck and then I will get called and have to help them navigate through to get to their destination. I did lose my wallet with part of my id when I was flying at 14 from Montreal (my first trip without parents) . I somehow managed to find my way home without ever telling my parents what I did and they didn't find out until my wallet was returned in the mail a couple weeks later, then I got in trouble. When you think about it, if your kid knows not to leave security (which you can take them to), then it's really navigating to the gate. 

On transit, I have ended up in Harlem by accident, and a few other places I didn't belong. That was much more frightening than any flight or connection I may have missed. I have had to get my kids from places in the City when they have made a mistake on the bus due to safety or no connectors at that time.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yea, I think we are too cautious and got to trust in him more to make decisions.

He certainly is big enough at 6 foot 2 and 210 pounds......but he is also a really good kid who is naive about trouble that could happen.

We still think of him as our "little grandson".........and he is bigger than I am.

We are happy he can get back to his school and get ready for high school this fall.

His mom is going to Spain to stay with grandma or her parents.....if they can get along. We have no idea if or when she will be coming back.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

What's to stop her booking a flight to Canada on her British passport for a "vacation" to visit friends and relatives. Then, once she's "home" she can apply for a new PR card to replace the expired one.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mechanic said:


> What's to stop her booking a flight to Canada on her British passport for a "vacation" to visit friends and relatives. Then, once she's "home" she can apply for a new PR card to replace the expired one.


That's immigration fraud.
People who engage in immigration fraud should be permanently barred from the country.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

MrMatt said:


> That's immigration fraud.
> People who engage in immigration fraud should be permanently barred from the country.


Well she has already been granted permanent residency and is a permanent resident already. Sounds like she just forgot to renew her card ? so not fraud.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mechanic said:


> What's to stop her booking a flight to Canada on her British passport for a "vacation" to visit friends and relatives. Then, once she's "home" she can apply for a new PR card to replace the expired one.





Mechanic said:


> Well she has already been granted permanent residency and is a permanent resident already. Sounds like she just forgot to renew her card ? so not fraud.


If you tell customs you are coming for a "vacation" with the intention to stay, you are committing fraud by lying to immigration officials.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I wasn't meaning for her to actually lie to Immigration, I was meaning more to book the flight and then deal with the situation with Canadian Immigration. I would think she may even have her landing paperwork in the passport. Seems it could be just forgetfulness to renew the card and immigration may be understanding or even help if she were to explain the situation. There's huge delays right now too trying to get anything done through Service Canada I had a perm resident card for over 30 years and they don't send reminders when they expire, it's up to you to check and keep notes to renew it, same with passports. Just seems a little harsh that she can't get home due to a little forgetfulness. Looking at it from another perspective, seems odd that she would be taken off the plane in the UK when the problem is actually more to do with Canadian Immigration. There may be more issues at play here.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am flabbergasted that a PR can't apply for a PRTD online and have it printed out to use.

The CRA could manage it as they already have the PR's information.

It is just a piece of paper that says.........yes, this person IS a PR and lost their card so let them return to Canada.

It can only be used one time and you still have to go through customs, where they have access to all records including CPIC for criminal records.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> I am flabbergasted that a PR can't apply for a PRTD online and have it printed out to use.


Flabbergasted that the government is incompetent?

That's hilarious. That's more than half the motivation behind the small goverment movement.

The funny part is you have so many posts here about government incompetence and inefficiency... yet you want them to do more.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think the opposite. Outsourcing government responsibilities to small private visa offices operated by locals wasn't a great idea.

The government website lists the visa office in each country, but they are few and far between and some are not always in operation.

I could find an address but not a phone number for any of the local offices.

Some things might make sense to privatize, but most attempts haven't worked out very well.

I want the government to do a better job administering their responsibilities, not hand them over to someone who will do worse.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Government caught ‘flat-footed’ by travel surge at Toronto airport: former airline exec | Globalnews.ca


Duncan Dee, who worked for Air Canada for 15 years including a period as chief operating officer, said security and customs delays were creating 'cascading delays.'




globalnews.ca





This government is failing at every single thing they touch - literally, yet you want them to take on more responsibility?
Customs and immigration are a joke. Federal agencies in disarray. Incoherent rules that defy any logic. Incompetent decision makers whose only qualifications are 'agreeing with everything a leader says' and 'filling quotas'. What can go wrong?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> I think the opposite. Outsourcing government responsibilities to small private visa offices operated by locals wasn't a great idea.
> 
> The government website lists the visa office in each country, but they are few and far between and some are not always in operation.
> 
> ...


I want the government to do a better job.
The best way to do a job better is to focus on that job.

With that in mind the government should stop doing so many things, and simply focus on doing the job of government really good.
All that other stuff that isn't their responsibility, they shouldn't do it.


The problem is that as big as the government is, taking nearly half of our incomes it still can't do everything.
Time for the government to stop trying to be our nanny, and go back to providing basic government functions.

Like law enforcement.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Where all those people are supposed to live?

Aug 24 (Reuters) - Canada is on track to exceed its immigration goal of granting permanent residency to more than 430,000 people in 2022, Immigration Minister Sean Fraser said on Wednesday.

Canada had also processed some *3.73 million temporary residency *applications by July, compared with 2.97 million applications during the same period a year ago.








Canada on track to exceed lofty 2022 immigration target


Canada is on track to exceed its immigration goal of granting permanent residency to more than 430,000 people in 2022, Immigration Minister Sean Fraser said on Wednesday.




www.reuters.com





Which political party is more down to earth with immigration policy? Because this is crazy.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Where all those people are supposed to live?
> 
> Aug 24 (Reuters) - Canada is on track to exceed its immigration goal of granting permanent residency to more than 430,000 people in 2022, Immigration Minister Sean Fraser said on Wednesday.
> 
> ...


It's frustrating they care so much about the absolute number. I want to see a breakdown of the numbers by profession... like "20,000 doctors", "50,000 nurses", "80,000 home builders", etc. How can we admit such a high number of immigrants but still have a shortage of those with the skills we need? We should be fast tracking those applications and putting everyone else on the back burner, but instead we're just overburdening the system with people who don't have the skills that we need to fix the crises in healthcare, housing, education, etc.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

I had a coworker from Nigeria tell me he feels scammed immigrating to Canada.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Ukrainiandude said:


> I had a coworker from Nigeria tell me he feels scammed immigrating to Canada.


Can you elaborate on that? Or is that all he said? Standing alone, a rather vacuous comment. If he could offer no support for it, maybe Canada was the victim for importing a brainless dolt.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Not sure what the context is, but reputation of Canada far exceeds reality. Having immigrated here a while ago, one was sold a Mercedes, and got a decent condition Fiat 500 instead


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> Can you elaborate on that? Or is that all he said?


It was in context of Toronto real estate affordability, rather formidable climate and high cost of living compared to the wages.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

damian13ster said:


> Not sure what the context is, but reputation of Canada far exceeds reality. Having immigrated here a while ago, one was sold a Mercedes, and got a decent condition Fiat 500 instead





Ukrainiandude said:


> It was in context of Toronto real estate affordability, rather formidable climate and high cost of living compared to the wages.


One hears these stories all the time. I have certainly heard many, and over decades. Nothing new at all. Now we have the advantage of the internet, with its chat rooms, online forums, etc.. They are replete with warnings and tales of woe about people disappointed with moving here. It would seem that most of the complaints stem from a lack of due diligence, or wilful blindness. Even a modicum of advance research should allow one to gain some insight into that which might lay in store. 

For example, since I was a baby I have heard of foreign physicians coming to Canada and being choked at having to accept work such as driving a cab. But, doggone, did these folks not get in touch with the College of Physicians and Surgeons in one or more provinces in advance, to ascertain what it would take to practice here?

As for climate and real estate affordability, not too difficult to get fairly accurate information in advance.

Another thing I have observed, is many of the whiners fail to return to their countries of origin, or to depart for some greener pasture. They stay in Canada. Why? No money for ticket home?


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

That post lacks any understanding or empathy at all.
Prior to coming my mother looked at requirements from Engineering Canada and APEGA.
Did everything as instructed - but it turned out a decade later the paperwork is still pending. One doesn't find such information online.

The housing crisis also escalated violently over last decade - that was another thing one really couldn't predict, because common sense actions and logical solutions were completely ignored by people in power - one can't predict that.

And you are right, now with much faster access to information it is easier to get the information. Especially hard to understand those who made a decision over last 2 years, because some media are realizing Canada is ran by fascist authoritarian so the knowledge of the situation is increasing, although at slower pace it would do if Canada had higher relevance on international scene


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> Another thing I have observed, is many of the whiners fail to return to their countries of origin, or to depart for some greener pasture. They stay in Canada. Why? No money for ticket home?


Many in Canada prefer to live in misery rather than return to the home country and pose as a loser in front of friends and family. For the same reason the true situation in Canada is always painted in bright colours by many immigrants. Another psychological behaviour would, something like “I moved here, I suffered, now I want others to suffer and endure the hardship as well, therefore I won’t be revealing the whole picture”.
I can tell you one thing for sure, none of my family (including siblings and cousins)in Ukraine (despite the war) expressed interest in coming to Canada. Perhaps because I am being honest with them about life in Canada.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Many in Canada prefer to live in misery rather than return to the home country and pose as a loser in front of friends and family. For the same reason the true situation in Canada is always painted in bright colours by many immigrants. Another psychological behaviour would, something like “I moved here, I suffered, now I want others to suffer and endure the hardship as well, therefore I won’t be revealing the whole picture”.
> I can tell you one thing for sure, none of my family (including siblings and cousins)in Ukraine (despite the war) expressed interest in coming to Canada. Perhaps because I am being honest with them about life in Canada.


There is much more to it, other than just stigma and psychological barriers.
For example retirement funds, there are deals between some countries and not others, tax situations when liquidating everything and moving, tariffs, etc.

Packing up your live to move across the world, even if based on false premises, is not a decision that one can wipe out and erase quickly. There are far reaching consequences. That's why it is important to do research, and that's why it is important that there is no censorship, state-sponsored media, and that PR abroad reflects reality within the country.

Emergencies act resounded world-wide so now it is known that there is fascist authoritarian PM in Canada, but prior to that there really wasn't much press covering the country at all


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

damian13ster said:


> fascist authoritarian PM in Canada


That’s overstretched.
Real world fascist authoritarian regime is in russia. Putler is in power for over twenty years.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> That’s overstretched.
> Real world fascist authoritarian regime is in russia. Putler is in power for over twenty years.


One doesn't exclude the other.

Undeniably, especially among countries that were hurt during world war 2 and were behind iron curtain, emergencies act was commented as equivalent of Soviet's and Hitler's type of behavior.
Bill Maher also noted it as such, so did politicians in European Parliament.

It resounded worldwide. Does it mean the immigration will decrease? - no.
Covid lockdowns pushed over 100mln people into poverty. There are billions who live in miserable conditions. They still love to go to any European or North American country. Simply the quality of immigration is going to decrease


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Well, I hear what you guys are saying and I won't say you are altogether wrong.

I have twice packed up and moved to other countries and settled in. Los Angeles, California and Manila, Philippines. Both times, initial intent was to stay forever. Both times, stayed for only 3 years. Both times I felt I could have carried on, but returning to Canada was, after a 3-year experiment, the right choice for me.

I never had any sense of stigma, failure or shame. Au contraire, I held my head up. I had the good sense to not leave Canada without a "Plan B", or an exit plan. I knew things might not go wholly according to expectation. No shame in being willing to give something a try and making an honest assessment after a reasonable period and, if that means resort to one's exit strategy, how could that ever be stigmatizing? Those who never expand their horizons and try new things, including new, faraway places to call home, are the ones who should feel shame.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Easy, you leave for a total of 6 years. That's 180$ off of your CPP, and some money off of your OAS that you will never recover. You have likely worked in these places meaning you contributed to the retirement plans over there.
Now some countries have minimal amount of years to qualify for a 'minimal retirement', so staying for 2-3 years longer might make a step jump in your retirement income.

So for example even if country is only 'civilized' country in the world with notwithstanding clause on human rights, and is taken over by fascist authoritarian, your choice might be to stick around for x years longer hoping the fascist authoritarian doesn't decide you should no longer be tolerated, or subscribe for poverty during retirement


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

damian13ster said:


> fascist authoritarian


Do you know the definition of fascism? You seem to keep throwing this word around a lot. 
*Fascism* is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3]characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy[2][3] that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4][5] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries, such as Germany.[4] Fascism also had adherents outside of Europe.[2] Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism and Marxism,[6][7] fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum.[4][7][8]
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete. They regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[10] A fascist state is led by a strong leader (such as a dictator) and a martial law government composed of the members of the governing fascist party to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[10] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[11] Fascists advocate a dirigiste[12][13] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[14] The extreme authoritarianism and nationalism of fascism often manifests a belief in racial purity or a master race, usually synthesized with some variant of racismor bigotry against a demonized "Other". These ideas have motivated fascist regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[15]


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Do you know the definition of fascism? You seem to keep throwing this word around a lot.
> *Fascism* is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3]characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy[2][3] that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4][5] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries, such as Germany.[4] Fascism also had adherents outside of Europe.[2] Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism and Marxism,[6][7] fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum.[4][7][8]
> Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete. They regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[10] A fascist state is led by a strong leader (such as a dictator) and a martial law government composed of the members of the governing fascist party to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[10] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[11] Fascists advocate a dirigiste[12][13] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[14] The extreme authoritarianism and nationalism of fascism often manifests a belief in racial purity or a master race, usually synthesized with some variant of racismor bigotry against a demonized "Other". These ideas have motivated fascist regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[15]


yes, I am well aware of the definition, and it fits with current fascist authoritarian PM:

authoritarian
dictatorial
centralized autocracy
forcible suppression of opposition
subordination of individual interests
strong regimentation of society and the economy

I have read the definition, understand it, and that's why I use the accurate words to describe Trudeau


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