# RBC and TD Direct Investing - all trades $9.95



## icon (Nov 25, 2013)

It looks like RBC Direct Investing has dropped the minimum account threshold to qualify for $9.95 trades:
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/128...ing-removes-yet-another-barrier-for-investors

This is great news for those with smaller account sizes and who are just starting out. Hopefully the other big brokerages follow.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/rbc-direct-investing-9-95-flat-per-trade-all-investors-1436760/


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow that's great news!! Thanks for this.


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## braintootired (Nov 4, 2013)

Nice! My TFSA is still with RBC.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Yay! Good job RBC!


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Once they add free EFT they will be the best hands down.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I have been thinking about this since icon started this great-news thread. I also carefully compared the 2012 (last update) fees to the latest ones and it does not look like they tried to make up the "shortfall" by upping any other fees. This seems a bit out of character for the big banks. Any have any ideas about why they may have done this? Are they trying to fish for clients in Questrade's space? Seems like a rather large move that sets them way above their competition. Usually banks increase fees.

Just the same, I'll take it.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

By removing the $50k minimum qualification for $9.99 trades, they have definitely checkmated Questrade.
RBC also happens to have a true USD RRSP A/C, which was one of Questrade's big features 2 - 3 years ago.

Add in the fact that not all trades at QT are $4.95 (ECN fees), and the platform fees, and it makes RBC a very compelling alternative even for smaller investors.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i have never understood why the big bank brokers don't go out hell-bent for the youth/novice investor market. Offer em zero-commish-to-buy ETFs. BMO is a natural for this approach, they already have a full suite of house etfs, can't imagine what's stopping em.

as an investor cohort, these new investors would tend to be high maintenance, so their marketing people would have to think up smart ways of organizing them into pods, maybe w mentors or marketing materials such as Pay Off Your Student Debt or Get The TFSA.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

"i have never understood why the big bank brokers don't go out hell-bent for the youth/novice investor market."

Totally hp.

Good news from RBC. I need to highlight this on my site and more importantly, act with my feet and leave my brokerage if they cannot get their act together.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Questrade deserves a big round of applause for being a scrappy, aggressive competitor. It was their low commissions (do you remember how TD Waterhouse acquired Ameritrade Canada and immediately jacked up trades from $11 to $30?) that pushed the banks to drop their commissions from $30 to $10 at least for some clients. Questrade was the first out with a USD RRSP and RBC and BMO followed suit.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i don't know if questrade is publicly traded but when i saw this, the first thing that occurred to me was that it was time to dump their stock
this is very good and i cannot believe that tdw won't be answering back


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## braintootired (Nov 4, 2013)

If all major banks follow, Questrade will have to adopt the $0.01 per share $1 min structure. But then how would IB respond?

RBC is good for long term investors but their platform is horrible for aggressive "day" traders. Questrade still has an edge there.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> It was their [questrade's] low commissions that pushed the banks to drop their commissions from $30 to $10 at least for some clients.


actually i believe the broker that first dropped its commish below $10 in canada - other than IB - was ETrade (later to be bought by scotia.) Volume-wise ETrade was the nearest competitor to the TD.

after that, the big green was forced to bite the competitive bullet & drop also.

did questrade even exist at that time? if so, had anybody ever heard of them? me, i'd class questrade's influence upon the brokerage community in canada, during those early years, as less than a gnat.

but it's true that they've powered ahead. Now it would be nice if mr kholodenko would conduct an IPO. That way institutions could get a look at their books & feel more confident.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> actually i believe the broker that first dropped its commish below $10 in canada - other than IB - was ETrade (later to be bought by scotia.) Volume-wise ETrade was the nearest competitor to the TD.


I think so as well. I was with E*Trade since they first came to Canada. For a bit, they even allowed the sale of F class mutual funds (I still have one).....that is, until they were 'forced' by who knows in the industry to shut that down.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> i have never understood why the big bank brokers don't go out hell-bent for the youth/novice investor market. Offer em zero-commish-to-buy ETFs.


I believe the big banks didn't want to be bothered with new/small investors.
I was surprised when Scotia iTrade _increased_ their highest commission tier from $19.99 to $24.95 about 2 years ago, approx. 3 years after acquiring E-Trade.
Prior to that, E-Trade/iTrade had the most competitive pricing for small accounts among the big 5 bank brokerages.

At this time, I believe TDDI and iTrade are the most uncompetitive for small accounts.
TDDI is at $29.99 and iTrade at $24.95


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> I think so as well. I was with E*Trade since they first came to Canada. For a bit, they even allowed the sale of F class mutual funds (I still have one).....that is, until they were 'forced' by who knows in the industry to shut that down.


I think you and hp are right. I had an account with E*Trade those days and I was paying $20 per trade and E*Trade had lower commish for frequent traders or certain account size.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> I believe the big banks didn't want to be bothered with new/small investors.


i agree, the youth/new investor market would be high-maintenance, but that's exactly why i thought that smart marketing people would have to create coping mechanisms & teaching modalities. 

the idea is that, long-term, the young/new crowd are going to become their mainstream clients of tomorrow. So it's worth investing a few dollars to attract & serve em right now, i think.

the only other growth strategy the brokers have is to buy each other's clients with higher & higher cash or free trade bribes. Given how fickle online customers are, one could even say "rent" each other's clients.

as for the coping mechanisms with young/new clients, dividing them into pods could help, for example. Like houses or clans in the private schools. Young people today seem to be more tribal than ever, so clustering them might make the business slightly more profitable for the big bank brokers.

pods could be mentored. Certain products - bmo could offer its large house suite of etfs at zero commish for example - could be featured; other products would be left at regular commish. 

HC look at all the talented young investors in cmf forum. They are/are going to be fabulous clients. There's no reason for their investing efforts to be handicapped by the big bank brokers; instead the BBBs should be competing to get their business.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> i agree, the youth/new investor market would be high-maintenance, but that's exactly why i thought that smart marketing people would have to create coping mechanisms & teaching modalities.
> ...
> HC look at all the talented young investors in cmf forum. They are/are going to be fabulous clients.


Yup, I agree. The BBBs are missing a huge opportunity by being so short-sighted.
I opened my first DIY investing account with $2,000 at E-Trade.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> I opened my first DIY investing account with $2,000 at E-Trade.


a discount broker marketing director's dream. All the little Harolds each:


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Interesting discussion between hp and HC. I agree hp is right though and perhaps RBC is the first to realize this?

But then again they're not stupid, so it could be a case of them simply grabbing clients from elsewhere? Touch wood, but they could always increase the price again later after they've grabbed the clients. They would retain those who can't be bothered switching back again, esp if the price increases are minor and are still lower than competition.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> the only other growth strategy the brokers have is to buy each other's clients with higher & higher cash or free trade bribes. Given how fickle online customers are, one could even say "rent" each other's clients.


I like this strategy, and was "bought" when RBC DI offered their 1% cashback deal a couple of years ago. Now, I'm waiiting to be bought by somebody else. This long term rental stuff is getting thin for a fickle client like myself!


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> i agree, the youth/new investor market would be high-maintenance, but that's exactly why i thought that smart marketing people would have to create coping mechanisms & teaching modalities.
> 
> the idea is that, long-term, the young/new crowd are going to become their mainstream clients of tomorrow. So it's worth investing a few dollars to attract & serve em right now, i think.
> 
> ...


That sounds like work! It's much easier to just raise fees for existing clients. Or the bonuses. Managers can easily say "we signed up 10,000 new six-figured accounts, which historically have a lifetime value of $5,000, and this only cost us $300 in bonuses per account". If they happen to have no loyalty, well that won't show for a few years anyways.

The number of young people who will generate a lot of fees or carry a large balance seems pretty low to begin with. Even when you get a group of people who look similar initially I've never found it easy to get them to stick together over the long term since each person's plans will change. The banks already have special offers for larger accounts which is about all they need to attract motivated young investors.

They obviously don't have to compete all that much even for accounts that will generate a lot of fees so as long as no one is going out of their way to lock in the future customers that aren't worth much yet, no one else has to compete with that. I'm not complaining, I'm just taking advantage of the best offers I can find like they are.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Guban said:


> I like this strategy, and was "bought" when RBC DI offered their 1% cashback deal a couple of years ago. Now, I'm waiiting to be bought by somebody else. This long term rental stuff is getting thin for a fickle client like myself!


Isn't it a lot of work to keep moving all your accounts so frequently?
All your ACBs get messed up, and while the accounts are in transit, you lose the ability to react to market events (buy/sell).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sigh sometimes guys can be so emotionally flat

wait until the women investors catch up here, we like to mother the young!

rob carrick in his recent globe & mail discount ratings sheet - which i largely don't agree with - still got it right when he rewarded questrade & virtual brokers for appealing to the young with flexi low commish ...


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> Isn't it a lot of work to keep moving all your accounts so frequently?
> All your ACBs get messed up, and while the accounts are in transit, you lose the ability to react to market events (buy/sell).


I've moved accounts twice just for the bribe, one of the moves smack in the middle of the credit crisis. It is about 2-3 hours work but if you are earning 1% of your *entire* account balance, it is may well be worth your time (a cool $5,000 if you have $500,000 squirreled away). I personally don't care about ACBs since I track them myself and the move itself usually takes about 10 days and for the kind of investing I do, I won't miss anything if I don't have to react for 10 days.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> sigh sometimes guys can be so emotionally flat
> 
> wait until the women investors catch up here, we like to mother the young!
> 
> rob carrick in his recent globe & mail discount ratings sheet - which i largely don't agree with - still got it right when he rewarded questrade & virtual brokers for appealing to the young with flexi low commish ...


You can always open a brokerage - if the fees are low I'll switch 

I understand the strategy the banks are taking. In most businesses low-value customers not only pay less but also need a lot more support. The first bank that actively looks for inexperienced young investors will have people calling up the traders and getting mad at them because they bought a stock that went down. The best way to lower prices to have no support. Not sure if a broker can pull that off. Or they could accept the loss on margins and hope for other business, but I don't think discount brokerages are going to be pulling in a lot of mortgage customers and that's about all young investors can take to the bank.

Financial literacy won't be coming from banks or schools any time soon.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> ... it is may well be worth your time (a cool $5,000 if you have $500,000 squirreled away)



gosh where are we getting $5000 in savings by moving?

to give your argument an extreme advantage, let's assume that 500,000 in an rrsp account is 100% invested in US dividend-paying securities, so the income is roughly 25,000. With a broker FX fee of 1.50%, that account is paying $375 in FX fees.

next, CC you've always said & shown how you don't trade that much. Let us imagine 50 trades per annum. Let us imagine commish drops from $10 to the cibc $7. Oops, that's only another $150 in savings.

oops again, the CIBC isn't offering a bribe.

as for "saving" FX fees on capital currency conversions, i refuse to acknowledge these because any high school graduate can learn to gambit. Currency arbitrage aka gambit trading can be done at every single broker, although some are more gambit-friendly than others.

so here we are "saving" a grand total of $525 by moving a half-million $$ account from broker A to broker B. We might increase that by $200-300 if broker B offers bonuses.

of course, if it's TD we're hearing that possibly there's no bottom to the unnamed bonuses they're prepared to offer ... if a client knows how to d.e.m.a.n.d them :biggrin:

but me, i don't see how a $500k account can even collect $1000 by moving shop, let alone a cool $5000.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

I think CC was referring to the 1% cash bonus that RBC was offering a while back.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

mrPPincer said:


> I think CC was referring to the 1% cash bonus that RBC was offering a while back.


Bingo. CC stated this in his post.

I took advantage of that deal and while I didn't earn $5,000, I did earn enough to make those few hours among the best paid in my entire life.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

hmm.. maybe I should wait until CIBC or RBC offers a signing bonus before I move from TDDI.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> Bingo. CC stated this in his post.
> 
> I took advantage of that deal and while I didn't earn $5,000, I did earn enough to make those few hours among the best paid in my entire life.


it was a long, long, long while back.

u haven't been earning so much since then?



PS CC didn't so state in his post at all each:

he used a future conditional tense, suggesting that folks could save a "cool" $5000 just by moving a $500k account from broker A to broker B. The grammatical tense employed inferred the future, not the past.

that roybank special offer was repeated only once in the entire history of canadian discountland afaik. That one-time repetition was when TD paid - reportedly an equal percentage - to snatch back their lost customers from roybank. Reportedly, the cohort consisted of former TD clients who 1) had defected to roybank but who 2) were willing to return to the big green with a big fat bribe.

it's inaccurate to present one unique & long-ago feature as a normal premium which brokers are willing to pay today in order to "rent" new clients.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> gosh where are we getting $5000 in savings by moving?
> 
> of course, if it's TD we're hearing that possibly there's no bottom to the unnamed bonuses they're prepared to offer ... if a client knows how to d.e.m.a.n.d them :biggrin:
> 
> but me, i don't see how a $500k account can even collect $1000 by moving shop, let alone a cool $5000.


AFAIK, it's been a few years now since anyone offered a 1% bribe to move (or stay  ). Unfortunately... What I'm referring to is the 1% offer that RBC DI made *twice* in the *past* for everyone. And TD Waterhouse made once only to clients who were lured away by RBC DI's bribe (in a very hush-hush manner).

http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/rbc-direct-investings-bonus-offer/
http://www.financialwebring.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=110813


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> AFAIK, it's been a few years now since anyone offered a 1% bribe to move (or stay  ).



don't u love the wild west atmosphere we're getting into?

why not ask em for anything? everything?

just think how much the discounters are going to bleed if every single cmf forum member phones his or her broker & demands cash to either stay or go! never mind this $200 business!! one starts by bargaining for 1% of capital!!!

i like chaos, myself

(aside to mr pincer) why not query em both ... nothing ventured, nothing gained


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> PS CC didn't so state in his post at all each:


Whatever. I was responding to a comment that it's a lot of work to move accounts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ah, but it's not a case of whatever. CC your message below suggests to folks that they could harvest as much as 1% of capital, now & in the near future, by moving to another broker.

maybe i'm hopelessly clueless & totally out of the loop, though?

maybe every other discount investor is getting 1% of capital by playing broker musical chairs? maybe everbody except myself is d.e.m.a.n.d.i.n.g sky-high stay-or-go bribes from their broker?


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> PS CC didn't so state in his post at all each:


No, he didn't. I knew what he was referring to however, so I mentally wrote it into his post.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

back to serious.

richard i do think your arguments have a lot of merit.

but from a very distant perspective - beyond the mandate of the discount brokers - what's to be done to help young investors? why should they, of all clients, experience relatively more hardships than other more established online clients?

we are supposed to help our young people get established in life. The responsibility doesn't end when each youth turns 18 years of ago. They're not taught finance in school; very few seem to have parents who can teach them; so collectively society has an obligation to help them find a productive & responsible path for themselves, i think.

you're right, it's easier for discounters to boost revenues in other ways; it's also too iffy to imagine that a youth cohort booked into the business now is even going to be there 5 years hence.

still, roybank's recent lowering of the threshhold for the $9.95 commission is channelling to me that things may be moving slightly in this more socially-responsible direction. It shows me that roybank believes that lowering the commish will attract enough worthwhile new business from young/new investors, to whom they don't have to pay any cash premium.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm thinking the same mrPPincer. Waiting for the right time.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> but from a very distant perspective - beyond the mandate of the discount brokers - what's to be done to help young investors? why should they, of all clients, experience relatively more hardships than other more established online clients?
> 
> we are supposed to help our young people get established in life. The responsibility doesn't end when each youth turns 18 years of ago. They're not taught finance in school; very few seem to have parents who can teach them; so collectively society has an obligation to help them find a productive & responsible path for themselves, i think.
> 
> ...


The first social good I expect they thought of is all the people who receive dividends on their shares and help support the economy  Aside from that they might think that customers will make 4-5 trades at $10 instead of 1 at $30, be less likely to go to another broker, be more likely to come over without a 1% bonus, or something like that. Since it's an electronic system the gross margins should be pretty good as long as they maximize revenue and keep support costs controlled. Somewhere far down the list they may have noted an unexpected side benefit that they could advertise loudly while talking about what a good little bank they are.

I don't think all young investors experience relatively more hardships. For example if they have a $150,000 portfolio I'm sure any bank would be very welcoming and helpful. I think the rest of your questions are not only a different thread but maybe even a different forum


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

*All Online Trades $9.99 at TD Direct! Yay!*


*Starting February 7 – All online and TD app trades for $9.99 flat!*


Beginning February 7, 2014, it’s *$9.99 flat* *for all Canadian and U.S. equity trades* placed online through WebBroker and the TD app for mobile and tablet. Our new, low-cost and straightforward pricing means everyone qualifies.


No minimum trading activity requirements
No minimum account balance requirements
No share quantity limitations
*If you’re trading more than 150 times each quarter, you’ll continue to receive additional savings of just $7.00 flat per trade.*
At TD Direct Investing, we are committed to providing you with everything you need to make better, smarter investment decisions so you can achieve your financial goals. Low-cost and straightforward pricing is just one more way we’re demonstrating this commitment to you.
Thanks for investing with us!


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^Isn't competition great!


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## Gimme the Green (Feb 4, 2014)

Finally, I only have about 10K in e-serieds funds at TD but its nice to have the 9.99 pricing. Competition is great.


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## leeder (Jan 28, 2012)

Does the whole "no minimum account balance" apply to RRSP as well? I know TDW mandates investors have a minimum $25k balance there or else they charge people around $100+gst...


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I believe account fees are still levied both at RBC and TD unfortunately. Worth checking though.


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## pastorash (Feb 3, 2014)

Hello all,

Brand new to the site, enjoying reading all the various commentary, thought I'd start posting here.

I have a small RRSP which I moved from CIBC to QTrade almost a year ago, so that is the extent of my active investing experience. The bulk of my investments are in basic low fee ETF's (Canadian, US, and International equities) and one "fixed income" mutual fund. I have a bit of "play money" I use for riskier stuff. Enjoy the free buying and selling of ETF's, but of course the menu is limited.

I noticed the thread here has no mention of Qtrade, are they out of favor? I've been considering moving a couple of locked-in RRSP from my wife over to Questtrade just to see how I like them.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

I guess this warrants dumping Qtrade now that I just recently started an eSeries coach potatoe with TDDI. 

With a measly 7k at Qtrade, do you think TD would foot any fee's to bring those stocks over?


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

> Starting February 7 – All online and TD app trades for $9.99 flat!
> 
> Beginning February 7, 2014, it’s $9.99 flat for all Canadian and U.S. equity trades placed online through WebBroker and the TD app for mobile and tablet. Our new, low-cost and straightforward pricing means everyone qualifies.
> 
> ...


Kudos to TD for trying to stay competitive. Doesn't help me out much but I'm considering on buying a few more TD shares just to show some appreciation. Now they just need to bring down the trading fee to $7.00 for those who use to qualify for the $9.99 per trade fee


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## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

I transferred 2K to Questrade 2 days ago b/c I didn't want to lose the $29 on $2000. Also I sold a stock with TDW yesterday for $29. That's how it goes. But I was still so glad I made a small purchase today with TDW cause the commission was affordable compared to the amount I injected.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Ag Driver said:


> I guess this warrants dumping Qtrade now that I just recently started an eSeries coach potatoe with TDDI.
> 
> With a measly 7k at Qtrade, do you think TD would foot any fee's to bring those stocks over?


Never hurts to ask!


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Franky Jr said:


> I transferred 2K to Questrade 2 days ago b/c I didn't want to lose the $29 on $2000. Also I sold a stock with TDW yesterday for $29. That's how it goes. But I was still so glad I made a small purchase today with TDW cause the commission was affordable compared to the amount I injected.


Try phoning them up and asking for a reduction to $9.99 on that trade, it can't hurt to try.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

RBull said:


> ^Isn't competition great!


meh
imho still a case of too little too late.
TD is still playing catchup
and still hasn't got there yet
I'm still making the move to CIBC with reg. accounts, TD isn't even close to a competitor in that field now.

---

Pastorash, welcome to the forum, I saw your post but I have no experience with those two brokerages, so I'm of no use to you there, maybe some others here will offer an opinion.

Personally I tend to be a little uncomfortable with some of the smaller brokerages and US-based ones due to unknowns like counterparty risk etc.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Synergy said:


> Never hurts to ask!


I did end up calling and asking. They will cover up to $150 in transfer fees for sums of 5k or greater. 

I will likely still bite the cost of the $75 closing fee from Qtrade  . I wonder if it can just sit idle with zero funds.


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## icon (Nov 25, 2013)

Looks like BMO has started offering $9.95 flat too


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

next stop for the over 50k: push em all down to standard $6.95 commish


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> next stop for the over 50k: push em all down to standard $6.95 commish


this is also why I like CIBC, $6.95/trade for years


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Competition is good!


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## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

Now that BMO Investorline has flat fee pricing, they should
definitely reduce the commission to $6.95, especially for
their 5 star silver and gold program customers.


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