# How to become a successful trader/investor, Please share your experience and advice.



## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Hello,

I'm very familiar with this forum but this is my first post... I know there are similar post out there but I really hope to hear advice and learn from others' experience. How to be good at this? How do you encourage yourself to keep going after failures? 

I was always curious about the stock market and attempted to test the water several times in the past, then my baby was born and everything was on hold and everything changed. Unfortunately my partner is not very supportive, other than living in his house for free, I'm pretty much on my own with the baby. I thought trading stocks is not only my personal interest, but also give me an opportunity to generate some income while taking care of my baby at the same time. After studying for 2 months (reading online, watching youtube radios, for 2-3 hours at night after the baby's asleep), I thought I was ready to be a trader/investor. I watch the market everyday and still study at night. there are good and bad investment but overall my stocks are doing well, just not well enough. To be honest I studied really really hard, but I think I still suck at this, especially when it comes to anylising data, using indicators, making decisions, etc. I'm at the point where I don't know what else to do, to improve, to learn.

Would somebody kindly share your experience and give me some encouragement please?

PS. My current holdings are: ACQ, CWB, COS, RMX. watching CXV and PTG

Thank you very much!


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## ashin1 (Mar 22, 2014)

Its great that you are looking for ways to increase your wealth, but do you have a goal in particular you are striving towards? the strategy you implement now means nothing if you do not have a certain end point you want to obtain. 

For me its early financial independence, so my strategy truly does revolve around bring me closer to my dream. So knowing now that i want FI, i am choosing my investment based on a passive income earning basis. In my opinion Investing is pretty easy, all you are really doing is delaying your gratification through compounding interest. 
My best advice i have been given and i implement to this day is find high quality stocks that have intrinsic value (pay consistent dividends which increase with time) buy and hold them while reinvesting your returns. When it comes to day trading I simply don't trust my own knowledge to buy with the intent on selling for capital gain. I'd rather get paid to wait.

Hope this helps


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## supperfly17 (Apr 18, 2012)

FireFeather said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm very familiar with this forum but this is my first post... I know there are similar post out there but I really hope to hear advice and learn from others' experience. How to be good at this? How do you encourage yourself to keep going after failures?
> 
> ...


I am new as well to this but have started reading/doing research for the last several years before starting to invest. It is true what they say you must be in the market in order to go through the emotional ups and downs.

I am in my late 20s and my strategy is to save 10-15% of my monthly paycheck and retire by the time I am 60. I purchase US and Canadian blue chips which pay dividends and plan to hold them until I am 90 (so to say). Plan to have defined benefit pension and dividends fund my retirement.

Not looking for a get quick rich scheme since I probably will not find a 20- 100 baggers investing, but oh well I would be quite happy with 4-8% annual return over 30 years.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

supperfly17 said:


> I am new as well to this but have started reading/doing research for the last several years before starting to invest. It is true what they say you must be in the market in order to go through the emotional ups and downs.
> 
> I am in my late 20s and my strategy is to save 10-15% of my monthly paycheck and retire by the time I am 60. I purchase US and Canadian blue chips which pay dividends and plan to hold them until I am 90 (so to say). Plan to have defined benefit pension and dividends fund my retirement.
> 
> Not looking for a get quick rich scheme since I probably will not find a 20- 100 baggers investing, but oh well I would be quite happy with 4-8% annual return over 30 years.



aced it


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hello young mother, if i may be so bold as to read between the lines? If you were my daughter, i'd worry a bit that you are hoping to earn a living against the odds, by day-trading alone at home while the infant sleeps.

I'd be over the moon about the baby, of course. I'd be thrilled with your hard work & i'd be proud of your smarts. But i'd be hoping to see you plan up a career for yourself, something you can gradually move into as the baby grows a little older.

you can do everything. You can parent the child, work at a reasonable pace towards a career in a field that interests you (for you, finance might be the one), plus manage your investments, all at the same time. Usually, with a young person, investments can be kept fairly simple, so they don't occupy too much of a young investor's time. 

having a 3rd sphere of interest - the future career & the education that might be necessary to pursue it - will put you in contact with stimulating people. The environment might be a bit too isolating when a young single parent with almost no support spends her days & nights trying to care for her newborn while practicing day-trading at the same time.

as for your stock picks, i can see where you're going but i'd rate them too speculative for a vulnerable young parent with responsibilities. Convalo especially looks shaky to me, i'm not sure why you've chosen picot or rubicon? if it were my daughter, i'd rather see those penny stocks replaced by a boring core ETF such as XIC. I'd be hoping to see a GIC or 2 in there as well.

i'd also worry about whether you had an emergency cash fund.

take care, now.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Firefeather

Your on the wrong path forget studying very hard. You first must learn how to think to distinguish truth from falsehood. Remove the ideas & concepts in your mind that are a junk heap of untruths & replace them with that witch is true. Replace all faith which is the blind acceptance of ideas without any sensory evidence with reason which is the antithesis of faith. Reason: Judging by information provided by the senses. You need a strong commitment to reason with the use of the laws of logic to play this game. 

Do you have any idea how much time & energy you can waist trying to play the market? A job that will put money into your hand my bet would be a better path.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Risk is personal

Investing while having a young family is tricky ,also if there is debt and such

To big to fail is a way to start,IMHO I would replace any negative finances with positive(pay debt first)

If no debt ,than large caps are a good place to start,slow and steady,dividends and capital gains

Banks,Utility's, Cyclical Consumer Goods & Services,Telecommunications Services,Reits


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm a passive investor with long to medium long term goals, so I can't give you a lot of advice in that space... however I will tell you free lodging or not, the situation you are in is not a family. Being with an unsupportive partner with a baby, is not a good way to live. You need to stand up for yourself, regardless of the financial situation. The hardship of leaving a bad relationship is better than the hardship of staying in one.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

she's a young mother who should be supported, together with her infant. With love, if possible.

now is not quite the time to preach about dumping the apple cart upside down, imho.

it is extraordinarily difficult for any single young mother to attend school & work towards a more fulfilling career, all the while caring for her tiny tot or tots. The challenges are overwhelming.

persons working with these fragile young mothers know the drill. There can be inspiring success stories. But, guys, won't you please lighten up here.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

lonewolf said:


> A job that will put *money into your hand* my bet would be a better path.


This!

*Forget day-trading at this time!* With a new baby, your relative investment inexperience & other, you won't have the energy/focus for it, and it's just added stress that you don't need right now. 

Just take your time learning, implementing long-term investment strategies first before trading. If you have the interest & knack for it, you'll see that in time, pieces of the puzzle will come together, but the initial learning curve is not a short but a prolonged one, so be patient, don't rush or try to take short-cuts, because there aren't any!

Good luck!


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

I've been in the situation as a child in a family like that. I also have friends who've been in that situation. And I don't know a woman who was like, boy I regret leaving that bad situation because of money. 

And I'm not saying she has to leave, but she shouldn't be living like she is now.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> This!
> 
> *Forget day-trading at this time!* With a new baby, your relative investment inexperience & other, you won't have the energy/focus for it, and it's just added stress that you don't need right now.
> 
> ...



won't you please stop plagiarizing ideas


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CalgaryPotato said:


> I've been in the situation as a child in a family like that. I also have friends who've been in that situation. And I don't know a woman who was like, boy I regret leaving that bad situation because of money.
> 
> And I'm not saying she has to leave, but she shouldn't be living like she is now.



we have no real idea how financially delicate the situation is, but normally it would not be possible for a young mother with an infant but no real means of financial support to walk away from free housing without careful planning. 

she can plan a longer-term escape trajectory & ideally there should be social support for this planning to be nurtured. But she can't put the baby in a stroller & run out of the house in the rapid, almost hectic way you & others are proposing. She can't even go get a job instantly because unskilled wages wouldn't cover the costs of day care.

these are the facts of life for young single mothers.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> won't you please stop plagiarizing ideas


You are an incorrigible person, forever picking fights with someone on this forum, over and over and over! 

From being the most helpful/knowledgeable person on this forum, you have become someone that is destroying this forum day by day with unnecessary personal attacks. How many members have left this forum because of your hostile/aggressive behaviour as noted a couple of days ago by someone else?! 

You don't own this forum, do you?!


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> You are an incorrigible person, forever picking fights with someone on this forum, over and over and over!
> 
> From being the most helpful/knowledgeable person on this forum, you have become someone that is destroying this forum day by day with unnecessary personal attacks. How many members have left this forum because of your hostile/aggressive behaviour as noted a couple of days ago by someone else?!
> 
> You don't own this forum, do you?!


:encouragement::encouragement:


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> she can plan a longer-term escape trajectory & ideally there should be social support for this planning to be nurtured. But she can't put the baby in a stroller & run out of the house in the rapid, almost hectic way you & others are proposing.


I said she needs to stand up for herself, because they can't live this way forever. I never said what you are putting in my mouth. That said, if she was in an abusive situation I would recommend just that, and many women do that every day, and are better off for it.

It's unfortunate that single parents can end up feeling trapped. I get that, I just want to make sure she doesn't resign herself to a life of being trapped. 

Don't try to twist what I am saying to doing something reckless and pointless.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CalgaryPotato said:


> I said she needs to stand up for herself, because they can't live this way forever. I never said what you are putting in my mouth. That said, if she was in an abusive situation I would recommend just that, and many women do that every day, and are better off for it



please find below what you proposed an hour or two ago? this post says she needs to stand up & leave regardless of the financial situation.

the problem is that - in reality - most young single mothers in such circumstances cannot leave without careful planning unless they have family or other financial support to flee to.

the planning of course includes planning for many more years to come as a self-supporting independent parent. It's a huge amount of planning, could take months or even years. Ideally, it requires gentle & loving support. I still stand behind my views

in addition, i feel it's not right to suddenly introduce melodramatic terms such as "abuse" into this situation. In reality we know almost nothing. No one even knows if the house partner is actually the father of the baby! for all we know, he's a student or an impecunious artist who is kind, honourable, loving, thoughtful, generous & hard-working, but doesn't have a dime to spare.




CalgaryPotato said:


> however I will tell you free lodging or not, the situation you are in is not a family. Being with an unsupportive partner with a baby, is not a good way to live. You need to stand up for yourself, regardless of the financial situation. The hardship of leaving a bad relationship is better than the hardship of staying in one.


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard. I'm just trying to tell the girl that even though she may feel trapped, she may have options although it doesn't feel like it. I don't see how you jumping up and yelling, no she's trapped she can never leave her situation because there is money there helps the situation.

Also I read "my partner is not very supportive... I'm pretty much on my own with the baby" a lot different and sadder than you do apparently.


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## supperfly17 (Apr 18, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> won't you please stop plagiarizing ideas


I honestly took this as a joke, which I hope it is.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

^ NO, it wasn't a joke! :hopelessness:

This person resorted to a dead woman once to insult me and another member here by saying we suffered from a 'Princess Diana Syndrome'. Who is the one with the personality disorder here? Those who have never resorted to personal attacks, ever, or those who go around attacking multiple members ad nauseam?!

ENOUGH ALREADY, MODERATORS PUT A STOP TO IT!

There may be few who enjoy the show with their pop-corn, but most do not!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CalgaryPotato said:


> I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard. I'm just trying to tell the girl that even though she may feel trapped, she may have options although it doesn't feel like it. I don't see how you jumping up and yelling, no she's trapped she can never leave her situation because there is money there helps the situation.
> 
> Also I read "my partner is not very supportive... I'm pretty much on my own with the baby" a lot different and sadder than you do apparently.



don't you think you are the one jumping up & yelling ... i see that you've been the one ... jumping up & yelling ...

to borrow your phrase, perhaps you should not put words in the OP's mouth? to not support financially, or not be able to support financially, does not equate to abuse. Far, far, far more informatiion would be necessary. As i've mentioned, at this point no one can even know whether the partner is or is not the father of the infant.

i'll end with you now, if i may, since you seem to want to force orders upon the young lady & force arguments into the thread. I for one have been compassionate towards the original situation. I'm not one to hastily or suspiciously look for "abuse" when we simply do ot know enough.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Toronto.gal said:


> ENOUGH ALREADY, MODERATORS PUT A STOP TO IT!
> 
> There may be few who enjoy the show with their pop-corn, but most do not!


Best thing to do is just to report humble. I did and politely asked him/her to be banned. I drive a lot more traffic to this site (see referral count) than he does and I honestly think we'd be better off without his verbal diarrhea.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Please stop inflaming people so, HP. You are clearly very good at it, as has been proven on multiple occasions. The point has been made, you are good at everything you do! Why not return to your roots of high quality financial advice to young investors looking for a guiding light? You were instrumental in my early learning 5 years ago and offered an unending plethora of knowledge and encouragement on this site. I for one don't find your derailing/accusing posts to be so bad, and happily put up with them and even find them amusing sometimes, but clearly others are very taken aback. You even drove one of my favourite posters away from CMF, never to return.

I would not call for your banning, as others have suggested, but I hope you are aware of their desire to have you removed. That would be a loss to the forum IMO.

I don't understand your motivation. What do you get from riling people up and ruining your reputation here? are you just bored? Or is this a case of "star performer not following the rules because she knows she can get away with it?" If so, please consider humbling (heh) yourself for the sake of those that have, and can still, learn so much from you.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

I want to thank everyone who replied my thread, I read your comments and suggestions over and over and I take every single advice to heart! I really appreciate the help, thank you guys!!

I also want to apologize for not being able to come here often, I only come when my baby is napping or sleeping at night.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

ashin1 said:


> Its great that you are looking for ways to increase your wealth, but do you have a goal in particular you are striving towards? the strategy you implement now means nothing if you do not have a certain end point you want to obtain.
> 
> For me its early financial independence, so my strategy truly does revolve around bring me closer to my dream. So knowing now that i want FI, i am choosing my investment based on a passive income earning basis. In my opinion Investing is pretty easy, all you are really doing is delaying your gratification through compounding interest.
> My best advice i have been given and i implement to this day is find high quality stocks that have intrinsic value (pay consistent dividends which increase with time) buy and hold them while reinvesting your returns. When it comes to day trading I simply don't trust my own knowledge to buy with the intent on selling for capital gain. I'd rather get paid to wait.
> ...


Thank you for the suggestion Ashin1, you are right about setting up goals, currently my goal is to be able to provide for myself and my child, I want to make trading stock a full time job which generate stable income every month. Perhaps my goal is not realistic, perhaps I'm not trying hard enough, I find myself no where near achieving that goal. your advice reminded me that I need to reevaluate and figure out what works best for me and/or if it'll ever work for me.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

supperfly17 said:


> I am new as well to this but have started reading/doing research for the last several years before starting to invest. It is true what they say you must be in the market in order to go through the emotional ups and downs.
> 
> I am in my late 20s and my strategy is to save 10-15% of my monthly paycheck and retire by the time I am 60. I purchase US and Canadian blue chips which pay dividends and plan to hold them until I am 90 (so to say). Plan to have defined benefit pension and dividends fund my retirement.
> 
> Not looking for a get quick rich scheme since I probably will not find a 20- 100 baggers investing, but oh well I would be quite happy with 4-8% annual return over 30 years.


Hello Supperfly17, I am in my late 20s as well, like you I've been watching the market on and off for years before I started to trade with real money. I am tired of saving account, GICs, mutual funds, they are giving too little in return that I'm..just tired of them. It's very wise of you to have a long term goal! to me it's all about short term right now~


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

FireFeather said:


> to me it's all about short term right now~


Not a lot of people on CMF do short term trading. Well some do from time to time when there seems to be reasonably good evidence that a return will come, but overall its not common here as this method is generally not successful.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> hello young mother, if i may be so bold as to read between the lines? If you were my daughter, i'd worry a bit that you are hoping to earn a living against the odds, by day-trading alone at home while the infant sleeps.
> 
> I'd be over the moon about the baby, of course. I'd be thrilled with your hard work & i'd be proud of your smarts. But i'd be hoping to see you plan up a career for yourself, something you can gradually move into as the baby grows a little older.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply HP, I read all your reply on my thread too, I sense that you are telling me the harsh fact and truth in a way that makes me feel like I'm still being supported. I appreciate that because I'm here to seek advice, to listen, to learn, no matter what people throw at me. so thank you.

you mentioned how isolating the work environment might be for day traders, I agree and I actually thought about that. Ever since the baby, I've been quite isolated from the world already, often time I feel lonely and helpless; becoming a day trader certainly won't help that situation. However, I just want to try, I'm the type of person who will not give up until tired my hardest.

In regards to the stocks I chose. ACQ, CWB and COS were the first stocks i purchased, shortly after I realized not only choosing quality stock is important, the quantity is important too! I have limit funds so I figured penny stocks might work better for me. something I can get in and out within couple of days for quick gains. I haven't had time to look into ETF yet, but I definitely will!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

lonewolf said:


> Firefeather
> 
> Your on the wrong path forget studying very hard. You first must learn how to think to distinguish truth from falsehood. Remove the ideas & concepts in your mind that are a junk heap of untruths & replace them with that witch is true. Replace all faith which is the blind acceptance of ideas without any sensory evidence with reason which is the antithesis of faith. Reason: Judging by information provided by the senses. You need a strong commitment to reason with the use of the laws of logic to play this game.
> 
> Do you have any idea how much time & energy you can waist trying to play the market? A job that will put money into your hand my bet would be a better path.


Thanks for your words! Shortly after I started trading I realized how much time and energy it is required, I simply thought I can do everything on my phone, looking after the baby and buying stocks at the same time, hell I was wrong! I have the heart to learn and practice, but my baby just won't let me. and the responsibility of being a mother is above and beyond everything else. Thank you for your advice!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

1980z28 said:


> Risk is personal
> 
> Investing while having a young family is tricky ,also if there is debt and such
> 
> ...


Thanks for reminding me about taking care of debt first! and I will look into those categories you suggested.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Toronto.gal said:


> This!
> 
> *Forget day-trading at this time!* With a new baby, your relative investment inexperience & other, you won't have the energy/focus for it, and it's just added stress that you don't need right now.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice! Yes it's been very stressful, emotional and physically. I can't tell you how many times when I'm wring a buying ticket, my baby won't let me finish and I miss the opportunity. I felt disappointment for not buying in at the right time I wanted, also felt guilty for not giving my baby the attention he deserves. you are right I need to stop rushing and just take one step at the time!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

CalgaryPotato said:


> I'm a passive investor with long to medium long term goals, so I can't give you a lot of advice in that space... however I will tell you free lodging or not, the situation you are in is not a family. Being with an unsupportive partner with a baby, is not a good way to live. You need to stand up for yourself, regardless of the financial situation. The hardship of leaving a bad relationship is better than the hardship of staying in one.


Thank you CalgaryPotato, I read all of your comments. I understand what you are trying to tell me and want to thank you for your kind words. Being in an unhealthy relationship is painful, and knowing this loving home of mine can be taken away any moment makes me feel very insecure. I'm trying very hard to be able to stand on my own feet first; however, I haven't been very successful. That's why I'm here seeking advice. I know this is the investment forum, I don't want to go into my personal problems.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Fraser19 said:


> Not a lot of people on CMF do short term trading. Well some do from time to time when there seems to be reasonably good evidence that a return will come, but overall its not common here as this method is generally not successful.


I noticed, and I agree with a lot of people here. slow, steady, and pieces will eventually fall together.


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

I haven't posted on this forum for over 2 years because of the discouragement I received on my investing style. 

I'm self taught never read a single investment book but had the passion to pick stocks since high school.

I also day trade 2 of your stocks. COS and RMX. RMX can explode anytime soon as they're about to go into production.

I remember seeking an advisor that told me RMX was a bad investment when it was 90 cents. If you have success and passion for day trading than don't be swayed by others. I hear 95% of day traders fail all the time from everyone. 

I quit my job and am still day trading for close to 2 years nows. I'm expecting a baby this July. I have no job and 2 mortgages. Rational people will say this is impossible and you're insane but day trading is not for normal people.

Are you normal?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Like others have said FireFeather...*forget trading!*

Buy and hold ETFs and if you wish, buy and hold a few dividend paying stocks. That's it 

Keep It Simple and let time in the market do it's magic.


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## jerryhung (Mar 28, 2011)

With a baby, no trading, just slow & steady
You want to sleep well at night !!!! the baby will make it uneasy, but day-trading will be even worse


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Read lots, buy and hold, have patience.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I am not going to say buy and hold or no trading.... Yet... You say you want short term and I am guessing it is because you want the gains right away. 

Trader It might be a strategy that could work for you. It's very high risk. So the question for you is, do you need the money or do you want the money, There is a difference. If you are day trading and you can afford to lose it all, and this is just extra, and would not impact you life if your LOST it all, then it might be okay. If you are counting this money for your financial security, then don't day trade. 

You have a newborn which is a lot of work and very stressful. I know you thinking short term, but if you want to break out of cycle of just thinking bout the next few months, because it does cause a lot of churn and effort. Take the effort to figure out what you want long term. I always believe pay now or pay later, but if you pay later, overall it will be a lot more.


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

My advice is don't be a by-the-book investor with off-the-shelf opinions and buy into all the clichés that go along with that. Don't invest using rigid rules and immediately discount good opportunities. Be a contrarian, buy unknown companies doing good things, buy small companies.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

peterk said:


> ... I don't understand your motivation ... ruining your reputation here




peterk afaik no one on here has any reputation to either ruin or polish each: it's only an anonymous chat board, ater all. It's not real life.

me i'm just a poor dumb crumb who visited in the hope she might be able to offer a few gallettes of info that could be of use to others.

i've learned so much from cmf members. Thank you all very much indeed, any of the thoughtful long-time experts who might still be listening.

once again, warmest wishes to the OP


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## bmoney (Jun 22, 2013)

Be skeptical and have conviction, that means accumulating experience and knowledge first. Develop a thesis and devise a strategy, allow time for things to play out. It's important to be well rounded, there is plenty of misinformation, knowing what to pay attention to and what to discard as junk is very important ie: anything on Motely fool or yahoo finance is junk.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> peterk afaik no one on here has any reputation to either ruin or polish each: it's only an anonymous chat board, ater all. It's not real life.


I think of CMF more like a online school where real life knowledge is imparted by you experienced finance/investing guys, than an anonymous chat board. As a long time reader I know that you know what you're talking about. But if a brand new member came here and was reading about this humble_pie person causing a raucous and angering other long-time posters, they may mistakenly right you off as a know-nothing trouble maker. This would be to their detriment, obviously, and counter productive to your goal of teaching us youngsters a thing or two about investing (I presume).

Anyways. I got no beef. Just trying to bring a calming voice to this seemingly heated subject.


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## Financialplannerdude (Apr 30, 2015)

I'll disagree with those who say it isn't possible to be a sucessful active trader, it's just most that try fail (including me - penny stocks). and who wants to announce to the world that they failed. 

The only site I know of where active sucessful traders gather is Fully Informed (.com) Be warned it's a massive site, I'd suggust joining the yahoo group if your interested. 

good luck Rob


Sent from a mobile device so pls ignore typos and funny autofills


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

peterk said:


> I think of CMF more like a online school where real life knowledge is imparted by you experienced finance/investing guys, than an anonymous chat board.


Exactly!



humble_pie said:


> ...it's only an anonymous chat board...i'm just a poor dumb crumb who *visited in the hope she might be able to offer a few gallettes* of info that could be of use to others.


Except you also offered pastry topped with insults and malicious lies.

Kindly remind yourself of your own words:



humble_pie said:


> ah, but discussing doesn't mean bullying & bludgeoning others to death...


Also try to stop drowning other voices here, because you do not control this forum. Your extensive knowledge & contribution here does not give you the license to attack anyone when completely unprovoked!


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Buy apple in the morning & sell in the afternoon LOL ( it is going to work till it stops working )


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> i'm just a poor dumb crumb


Glad we could both agree on something. It doesn't happen often.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

FireFeather said:


> To be honest I studied really really hard, but I think I still suck at this, especially when it comes to anylising data, using indicators, making decisions, etc. I'm at the point where I don't know what else to do, to improve, to learn.
> 
> PS. My current holdings are: ACQ, CWB, COS, RMX. watching CXV and PTG


The first problem is that you think studying will make you a successful trader. If that was the case, everyone would study stock trading instead of anything else. Also, when you study and do what everyone else tells you to do, you will fail in life 90% of the time.

If you want to improve your trading then there is only one thing you can do. It's something that you've probably heard all your life, but it is true: Practice makes perfect.

You need more practice. It sounds stupid, but there is almost a sense of intuition with trading. It comes with experience.

I'm not going to comment on the baby or your lifestyle. I'm sure you're wise enough and don't need a lecture.

Also - I don't agree with ACQ, CXV or PTG. Why these ones? They look like a waste of time to me. I wouldn't touch any of them. Usually I don't like to give too much advice on why I do or don't like stocks. But in this case:

ACQ: The stock is all over the place and clearly in a downtrend. It was extremely overvalued in 2014. The P/E is still over 17, which to me seems high for this type of stock. The dividend yield is very low. I just don't really see where this is going... Seems like a gamble.

CXV & PTG: These are pennies with unsightly charts. I don't even know what their business is and I don't even care. That information is irrelevant. I wouldn't buy just based on the chart and the stock price.

Don't give up.


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

KaeJS hit it right on the button. I can guarantee you will lose money day trading. Why? 

1) Reading books is fine but do they tell you can't time the market or to not buy low sell high? Than what happens when you take losing position. With experience you see momentum and the price manipulation.

2) You're trading because you need the cash flow. That's the opposite of trading. Trading some days you'll lose money but it'll be small loses waiting patiently for the tidal waves. Can you take loses well?

I say you'll lose money but how long depends on how well you adapt and willing to ride out your loses without quitting.

I'm rooting for your success but you have to realize stock trading is not easy as seeing a stock go down to your waiting price and magically bounce upwards.


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

I didn't go through the whole thread but, if you want to learn to day trade for fun and learn from there... no problem do it. But if you are starting in the ''trading world'', DO NOT count on that to bring food on the table.... you may get super lucky and the odds are against you....

I don't know how much you have to invest, but look at it this way.... in order to make a decent return to put food on the table, you gonna need a substantial large amount to make any little return worth it.... let's say you have $10k and you are able to get a 1-1.5% return on a good day you will get what!? $100-150!? sound good enough for only one day and few hours of work right? but think about it in order to get that you had to commit $10k..... what if you are wrong on that day and instead of gains it was losses?...

Like I said, don't expect to put food on the table with day trading if you don't know what you are doing, I am encouraging you to invest... however not daytrading... it sounds pretty easy but it's not and here I talk from personal experience....


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Everything in life falls on the continuum between pure luck and pure determinism. In anything I do I strive to move my personal operations away from the luck end and towards the deterministic end. Even with those efforts it is stunning how often I work really hard at something to not have it turn into a sack of ****, but bad luck sinks me anyhow. Day trading is well to the luck end of things and is not something I would give any consideration to, nor would I recommend it to anyone else.

In your situation, You could improve your finances right now in the short term by taking on a toddler or 3 at ~25/day each - there you go say $75/day that is very close to the deterministic end of things. In the long term, use those funds to take some college or university courses on line or at night, with the long view of maybe going full time when your child is in school.

hboy43


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Do it as a second full time job for 15 years and bankroll it with $50k lesson cost.

Trade real time.

With that commitment, you have 1% chance of becoming successful and above the index.

99% of the population is not willing to put in that effort and risk.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

FireFeather said:


> I have limit funds so I figured penny stocks might work better for me.


How much money are you working with? This is important.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I hate to suggest something that might blow up in your face but, trading options beats anything for generating large returns from a small account, and can be as safe as day trading stocks or safer if you do it right.

2 sites that helped my education were Tastytrade and John Carter's Simpler options web site. Both offer quite a bit of free content. Tastytrade's Market Measures segment really digs into the nuts and bolts of putting the odds in your favor.

Options are a rather exotic investment that most investors don't know much about, but if you take the trouble to educate yourself there is money to be made.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Look up the story of Jonathan Lebed. He is the only person I know to make a substantial amount of money from penny stocks who was not a company or market insider.

Unless you have an angle stay away from penny stocks.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

hboy43 said:


> Hi:
> 
> Everything in life falls on the continuum between pure luck and pure determinism. In anything I do I strive to move my personal operations away from the luck end and towards the deterministic end. Even with those efforts it is stunning how often I work really hard at something to not have it turn into a sack of ****, but bad luck sinks me anyhow. Day trading is well to the luck end of things and is not something I would give any consideration to, nor would I recommend it to anyone else.
> 
> ...


nailed it


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

^yup


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

my suggestion, find some part time work or something like that (that will be more beneficial)... when I started reading how you are a new mother, reading books, buying penny stocks (since you got limited funds) I'm shaking my head... sorry for the dose of reality but this is just not going to work... you cannot rely on luck at this stage in your life


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

SpendLessEarnMore said:


> I haven't posted on this forum for over 2 years because of the discouragement I received on my investing style.
> 
> I'm self taught never read a single investment book but had the passion to pick stocks since high school.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comment! I'm here to seek advice, share experience and learn from each other, so thanks for sharing your thoughts! It inspires me to see people who's in the same or even tougher situation manage to breakthrough and succeeded. Trading stocks require knowledge, patient, practice and hard work I agree, but personally I believe sometimes luck plays a big part of it too. Sometimes I get this feeling that this is the entry point, for no reason, I never acted on it but 90% of the time it turned out I was right.
Thanks again for your words, it really encourage me to keep going, not only trading stocks, but taking care of baby and life in general.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

My Own Advisor said:


> Like others have said FireFeather...*forget trading!*
> 
> Buy and hold ETFs and if you wish, buy and hold a few dividend paying stocks. That's it
> 
> Keep It Simple and let time in the market do it's magic.


Thanks for the advice! I am going to look into ETFs, also as other people recommended here to buy and hold quality stock with strong foundation, good dividend payout and great potential. The only reason I didn't choose ETF in the first place was because I thought ETF is for people who don't have the time or don't want to put into the effort into individual stocks. Plus stocks have taken most of my free time already I simply didn't have the time for others. However I'll definitely look into it, try it and see which one gives me the best result!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

jerryhung said:


> With a baby, no trading, just slow & steady
> You want to sleep well at night !!!! the baby will make it uneasy, but day-trading will be even worse


I know! I've been busy busy busy for a long time now, I don't even remember that last time I slept through the night~ I don't hate it now, I think I'm use to it already.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Cal said:


> Read lots, buy and hold, have patience.


Thank you Cal!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Plugging Along said:


> I am not going to say buy and hold or no trading.... Yet... You say you want short term and I am guessing it is because you want the gains right away.
> 
> Trader It might be a strategy that could work for you. It's very high risk. So the question for you is, do you need the money or do you want the money, There is a difference. If you are day trading and you can afford to lose it all, and this is just extra, and would not impact you life if your LOST it all, then it might be okay. If you are counting this money for your financial security, then don't day trade.
> 
> You have a newborn which is a lot of work and very stressful. I know you thinking short term, but if you want to break out of cycle of just thinking bout the next few months, because it does cause a lot of churn and effort. Take the effort to figure out what you want long term. I always believe pay now or pay later, but if you pay later, overall it will be a lot more.


Thank you for your suggestion PA! Several people here have suggested me to start thinking long term and set up a long term goal, I now realize how important it is. Not only it gives me a peach of mind when I'm down(the market's down), but also it'll keep me going. 
Thanks!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

CPA Candidate said:


> My advice is don't be a by-the-book investor with off-the-shelf opinions and buy into all the clichés that go along with that. Don't invest using rigid rules and immediately discount good opportunities. Be a contrarian, buy unknown companies doing good things, buy small companies.


Thanks CPA Candidate! I know what you are saying and I agree! The problem is I'm not experienced enough, confident enough to bet on small or unknown companies, or companies that's just starting up. And when I don't feel 100% comfortable I don't trade...


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

bmoney said:


> Be skeptical and have conviction, that means accumulating experience and knowledge first. Develop a thesis and devise a strategy, allow time for things to play out. It's important to be well rounded, there is plenty of misinformation, knowing what to pay attention to and what to discard as junk is very important ie: anything on Motely fool or yahoo finance is junk.



Thanks for the advice Bmoney! btw, it didn't take me very long to see how manipulated some of the sites are~


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Financialplannerdube said:


> I'll disagree with those who say it isn't possible to be a sucessful active trader, it's just most that try fail (including me - penny stocks). and who wants to announce to the world that they failed.
> 
> The only site I know of where active sucessful traders gather is Fully Informed (.com) Be warned it's a massive site, I'd suggust joining the yahoo group if your interested.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Is Fully Informed.com a site for Canadian traders? or they are mostly discussing about US stocks?


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

KaeJS said:


> The first problem is that you think studying will make you a successful trader. If that was the case, everyone would study stock trading instead of anything else. Also, when you study and do what everyone else tells you to do, you will fail in life 90% of the time.
> 
> If you want to improve your trading then there is only one thing you can do. It's something that you've probably heard all your life, but it is true: Practice makes perfect.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the suggestion KaeJS! I understand what you are saying and I agree practice is very important when it comes to trading, it keeps one informed and build up confidence. I'm not sure with my busy life I'll ever be active enough in trading, but I will try.
Thanks for giving your opinion on those stocks.

PS. I know you are a long time active member on CMF and I've read a lot of your posts/replies. Seeing you reply to my thread is like a little girl meeting her idol.........


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

I have been reading this thread and I am not sure what your plan is. Could you elaborate on what exactly you plan on doing?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

FireFeather said:


> Thanks for the advice! I am going to look into ETFs, also as other people recommended here to buy and hold quality stock with strong foundation, good dividend payout and great potential. The only reason I didn't choose ETF in the first place was because I thought ETF is for people who don't have the time or don't want to put into the effort into individual stocks. Plus stocks have taken most of my free time already I simply didn't have the time for others. However I'll definitely look into it, try it and see which one gives me the best result!


Hey FireFeather, 

Here's a tip for stock investing, own what all the big ETFs and funds own  Other than that, index invest.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

FireFeather said:


> Thank you for the suggestion KaeJS!
> 
> PS. I know you are a long time active member on CMF and I've read a lot of your posts/replies. Seeing you reply to my thread is like a little girl meeting her idol.........


Flattering. Thank you.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> Flattering. Thank you.


Just to knock you off of your little pedestal... I happen to think that your approach to investing is totally wrong. 

No offense. It's just the way I see it.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> Just to knock you off of your little pedestal... I happen to think that your approach to investing is totally wrong.
> 
> No offense. It's just the way I see it.


Everyone has an opinion that needs to be heard these days, GoldStone. No offense taken.

I'm just a little bit confused because I thought the purpose of investing was to make money. Having made 38 trades YTD and having only one small loss, my approach to investing _must_ be totally wrong. How could I have ever reasonably expected to do well with a 97% win ratio? Silly me... :rolleyes2:


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Everyone has an opinion that needs to be heard these days, GoldStone. No offense taken.
> 
> I'm just a little bit confused because I thought the purpose of investing was to make money. Having made 38 trades YTD and having only one small loss, my approach to investing _must_ be totally wrong. How could I have ever reasonably expected to do well with a 97% win ratio? Silly me... :rolleyes2:



Anything that's against the tried and true method of 'get rich slowly' is frowned upon on this forum and ridiculed as fairy tale. Just my observation.

You never see people initiate attacks on the slow method, but there's plenty of unprovoked ones when someone goes out of the norm.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

Z


KaeJS said:


> Everyone has an opinion that needs to be heard these days, GoldStone. No offense taken.
> 
> I'm just a little bit confused because I thought the purpose of investing was to make money. Having made 38 trades YTD and having only one small loss, my approach to investing _must_ be totally wrong. How could I have ever reasonably expected to do well with a 97% win ratio? Silly me... :rolleyes2:


One of my biggest weaknesses is in the area of risk management. I don't know what your style of investing is, but it may be possible that, by certain metrics, your style is not as successful as it could be simply due to improper risk management.

If there was just one course I could take regarding trading, it would be on risk management. Anyone have a recommendation?


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## StockTrader (Apr 21, 2015)

KaeJS said:


> Everyone has an opinion that needs to be heard these days, GoldStone. No offense taken.
> 
> I'm just a little bit confused because I thought the purpose of investing was to make money. Having made 38 trades YTD and having only one small loss, my approach to investing _must_ be totally wrong. How could I have ever reasonably expected to do well with a 97% win ratio? Silly me... :rolleyes2:


I don't want to rain on your parade, but judging a strategy YTD when stock markets went up is pretty meaningless. A rising tide lifts all boats.


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## Financialplannerdude (Apr 30, 2015)

Hey FireFeather

Warning long answer

I too have an interest in trading but up till now I haven’t been able to find a decent website or message board dedicated to active trading. I’ve tried my hand at trading a few times even once paid for a service but in the end I called it quits, active trading isn’t me. KaeJS posted a link to his Live Stock Trades Spreadsheet somewhere in this thread, but I can’t seem to find it. If you’re interested in trading that would be an excellent place to start. Also there are a few traders here find there threads and ask them questions, I’m sure they’d be happy to walk you through their thinking, just ignore the naysayers (like the comment by stocktrader above) and flame throwers, this is the internet after all. Don’t forget that being a trader doesn’t mean you day trade, I make a few trades per year, either to sell a loser or re-balance or sometimes just take profits. 

To answer your question Fully Informed is an options trading website run by a (surprisingly) a kindly Grandmother (on that one I'm making an assumption based on some of her comments), she is also an insanely smart investor with a long track record, we’re she born male in America she’d be a top hedge fund manager today but alas she’s Canadian so she toils in the back woods of the internet. She is also prodigious writer which makes wading through her website tough. She just launched  Fully Informed Canada 



FireFeather said:


> Hello,
> 
> Would somebody kindly share your experience and give me some encouragement please?
> 
> !


Glad you asked, over the past few years I’ve made the point of talking to each and every nephew niece and spouses (some 25 or so in total) regarding money management, and I tell them all the same, I wish someone sat down with when we first got married. Unfortunately we had to learn the hard way. So a few tips, I don’t want to go off topic so I’ll keep this short. 

1. Read Millionaire Teacher by Andrew Hallman (I've given away perhaps 15 copies)
2. Grow a  Mustache 
3. Understand taxes - for that one I highly recommend subscribing to Canadian Money Saver
4. Use YNAB can’t say enough good things about YNAB, you can try it out for free and if you buy it there are loads of 6 dollar of coupons out there. 


Good Luck Rob


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Causalien said:


> Anything that's against the tried and true method of 'get rich slowly' is frowned upon on this forum and ridiculed as fairy tale.


Seems to be the case.



janus10 said:


> If there was just one course I could take regarding trading, it would be on risk management. Anyone have a recommendation?


You can easily increase your risk management by making sure you know everything about the companies you are buying. Make sure you know the CEO's name. Look at the financials. Understand what affects the business (Commodity prices? Politics? Geography related issues? Interest rates? etc.). You should also never use 100% of your capital all at once. It is also a good idea to purchase securities that have an almost opposite business model in tandem with your main plays just in case you are wrong. You could go 100% into oil, but it would be better risk management to go 60% into oil, 20% into something else and leave 20% in cash, for example.



StockTrader said:


> I don't want to rain on your parade, but judging a strategy YTD when stock markets went up is pretty meaningless. A rising tide lifts all boats.


I'm not judging it on a YTD figure. I have done well for the last 4 years (which is when I started trading).


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> Just to knock you off of your little pedestal... I happen to think that your approach to investing is totally wrong.
> 
> No offense. It's just the way I see it.


That's simply because his approach is gambling and reams of data predict that he will be a failure over the long term. It's nothing personal to K but he should just save some time and go to Vegas.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> I'm not judging it on a YTD figure. I have done well for the last 4 years (which is when I started trading).


Markets been going up for the past 6 years... I'm pretty sure someone who just bought stocks in 09/10 and held made more than a trader... but nothing wrong with trading, i do swing trades myself


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> I'm just a little bit confused because I thought the purpose of investing was to make money. Having made 38 trades YTD and having only one small loss, my approach to investing _must_ be totally wrong. How could I have ever reasonably expected to do well with a 97% win ratio? Silly me... :rolleyes2:


You are wasting your youthful years on the itsy-bitsy trades. You make what? A few hundred dollars on each trade? Ho-hum. Low capital base + 97% win rate = Still low capital base.

We have a few young guys on this forum, about the same age as you, who make 2x what you earn. They grow their careers and have a shot at earning 3x. Your trading will never close the earnings gap.

At your age, you should be investing all your youthful energy in yourself. Your human capital is your biggest asset by far. Grow it! Get a better education, acquire new valuable skills, change jobs to expand your responsibilities. The opportunity cost of NOT doing this is enormous.

Compare the present value of 40K/year career vs. 80K/year career. Can you make up the difference by trading? The odds are slim to none.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

none said:


> That's simply because his approach is gambling and reams of data predict that he will be a failure over the long term. It's nothing personal to K but he should just save some time and go to Vegas.


So, buying energy stocks when oil is at $50/bbl is gambling? Because I call that a perfect buying opportunity.

All of those "buy and holders" would have actually started to lose money in the energy sector from about July of 2014 all the way down to January of 2015, where as I just started buying in February. All those ETF's like XIC and XIU, etc have a large energy component. For example, XIC has a 22% energy weighting.

As another point, I trade the same companies over and over. Example: I've traded RCI.B 3 times this year successfully. Is that just luck? Because a Buy and Holder of RCI.B has gone literally NOWHERE this year. RCI.B has lost 4.8% YTD and 1.76% over the last 1 year (without dividends). I have traded RCI.B 3 times this year and my return is 6.59% on this stock alone.

But I guess I should be picking Red or Black on Roulette?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

KaeJS said:


> So, buying energy stocks when oil is at $50/bbl is gambling? Because I call that a perfect buying opportunity.
> 
> All of those "buy and holders" would have actually started to lose money in the energy sector from about July of 2014 all the way down to January of 2015, where as I just started buying in February. All those ETF's like XIC and XIU, etc have a large energy component. For example, XIC has a 22% energy weighting.
> 
> ...


You seem to have lots of time on your hands so look at it as extended roulette. Everyone needs a hobby.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> You are wasting your youthful years on the itsy-bitsy trades. You make what? A few hundred dollars on each trade? Ho-hum. Low capital base + 97% win rate = Still low capital base.
> 
> We have a few young guys on this forum, about the same age as you, who make 2x what you earn. They grow their careers and have a shot at earning 3x. Your trading will never close the earnings gap.
> 
> ...


That is some accurate tough love you dished out right there.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

GoldStone & none,

Investing in myself (which is really getting an education from an institution) is something that doesn't interest me. Education costs money and time. The job market is dismal. Why would I go into debt for the possibility of making more money later?

My house is already going to be paid off relatively quickly and I make rental income on my property. This is much better than paying debt on student loans, if you ask me.

As for a couple hundreds dollars a trade, you are right. But making a few hundred a trade is much better than watching it bounce up and down as a buy and holder. I made the following this year:

February: $1500
March: $1200
April: $3000
May: ~$7500

We all know that money is exponential. Going to school to "invest in myself" seems like a bad idea.

Mortgage rates are so low right now I don't think there's anything better I could be doing than using leverage in the market to make money to pay down a mortgage while rates are low and the job market is dismal. I have tons of friends who have invested in themselves and they don't have anything. In fact, many of them end up taking on extra debt because they now need to buy a car to get to that "job" they have. Most of them make less than I do currently and my only debt is my house (which is actually an asset and a passive income generator).

The way I see it (and I could be wrong) is that those people getting out of university are going to be competing for jobs and they all have the same degrees but no experience. Meanwhile, if history has taught us anything, it is that interest rates will eventually make their way back up. At this time, I expect these university grads will now be ready to jump into the housing market. Suddenly, my house is next to paid off and Mr. University Grad is paying a high interest rate on his new mortgage.

Like I said - I could be completely wrong. I just think going to school is the worst idea for me right now. I would lose an asset, passive income, a salary, and my overall quality of life would diminish. Not to mention, how could I possibly trade? I would have to give up those gains, also.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Education can be a wonderful thing.

Because of my education I can make an additional $100-200 an hour in my spare time whenever I want. For instance in the last couple months I've made an additional $5K per month (sorta) doing work that I could only do b/c of my education. Making $5000 a month risk free is a pretty sweet financial addition which is only possible because of my education. I don't do it that often however because money is cute and fun and all but I have more fun spending $50 drinking beer and eating tacos with my girlfriend rather than sitting in front of a computer. Money is worthless unless you spend it.

Of course I'm stuck inside on a beautiful day like to day doing work for the federal government charging 4x what they could get a government employee to do it for but that's the consequence of government down sizing. Thanks Harper, you stupid stupid short sighted fool.

edit: ...and wasting time and being distracted by CMF..

Update: NASA servers are down. I'M GOING OUTSIDE!!! WHOOP!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

One last post:

11 or 12 Things I Learned About Life While Daytrading Millions of Dollars









http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2013/1...ut-life-while-daytrading-millions-of-dollars/


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

none said:


> I don't do it that often however because money is cute and fun and all but I have more fun spending $50 drinking beer and eating tacos with my girlfriend rather than sitting in front of a computer. Money is worthless unless you spend it.


Oh gee, how insensitive to write something like this in a thread opened by a struggling mother with an unsupportive partner!  But since I'd choose a self-confident "borderline sociopath" over a self-pitying righteous prick, hope your girlfriend does, too - and will bring out the best in you 

http://27n1.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cropped-2012header.png


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

SpendLessEarnMore said:


> KaeJS hit it right on the button. I can guarantee you will lose money day trading. Why?
> 
> 1) Reading books is fine but do they tell you can't time the market or to not buy low sell high? Than what happens when you take losing position. With experience you see momentum and the price manipulation.
> 
> ...


Thanks SLEM. I understand what you are suggesting, at the same time I don't understand it. What I meant was I understand all of those, but it's difficult when apply them into action. Perhaps it's lack of experience and confidence, or lack of knowledge. I agree that a lot of people fail, but those who get back up are the winner.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

SkyFall said:


> I didn't go through the whole thread but, if you want to learn to day trade for fun and learn from there... no problem do it. But if you are starting in the ''trading world'', DO NOT count on that to bring food on the table.... you may get super lucky and the odds are against you....
> 
> I don't know how much you have to invest, but look at it this way.... in order to make a decent return to put food on the table, you gonna need a substantial large amount to make any little return worth it.... let's say you have $10k and you are able to get a 1-1.5% return on a good day you will get what!? $100-150!? sound good enough for only one day and few hours of work right? but think about it in order to get that you had to commit $10k..... what if you are wrong on that day and instead of gains it was losses?...
> 
> Like I said, don't expect to put food on the table with day trading if you don't know what you are doing, I am encouraging you to invest... however not daytrading... it sounds pretty easy but it's not and here I talk from personal experience....


Thank you for the encouragement SkyFal. I've learned a lot by reading all the comment here, and the first most important point I learned is to change my perspectives on stock trading, and from there develop a realistic long term goal. Like you mentioned above, I now feel like all my hard work are not paying off, I spend so much time and effort only see a tiny small gain in return. However I am not giving up, I might not do it as a career but I definitely will not stop trading.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

hboy43 said:


> Hi:
> 
> Everything in life falls on the continuum between pure luck and pure determinism. In anything I do I strive to move my personal operations away from the luck end and towards the deterministic end. Even with those efforts it is stunning how often I work really hard at something to not have it turn into a sack of ****, but bad luck sinks me anyhow. Day trading is well to the luck end of things and is not something I would give any consideration to, nor would I recommend it to anyone else.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your honest opinion Hboy43. I've been very isolated from the world since the baby's born, as he's getting bigger and the nice weather approaching, I am slowly opening myself up. I start feeling comfortable talking to people again, thanks to stock trading (listening to news all the time) I have more to talk to other than just baby stuff. I am on the look out for employment opportunities or like you said taking on another toddler for extra cash, or just simply helping other Moms in need. However I will not stop trading stock though, I might not be good at it yet, but it is my passion and I believe I can do it!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Causalien said:


> Do it as a second full time job for 15 years and bankroll it with $50k lesson cost.
> 
> Trade real time.
> 
> ...


Thanks! It actually makes me feel better to know a lot of people fail, not just me~


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

KaeJS said:


> How much money are you working with? This is important.


I only put $2000 into penny stock since I am not confident enough to trust my knowledge and institution. I find I perform better when I only watch 2 stocks at a time, so I put $1000 into RMX and holding the rest for other opportunities. It's not a lot of money but it's the amount of money I feel comfortable losing (I sure hope not!)


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I hate to suggest something that might blow up in your face but, trading options beats anything for generating large returns from a small account, and can be as safe as day trading stocks or safer if you do it right.
> 
> 2 sites that helped my education were Tastytrade and John Carter's Simpler options web site. Both offer quite a bit of free content. Tastytrade's Market Measures segment really digs into the nuts and bolts of putting the odds in your favor.
> 
> Options are a rather exotic investment that most investors don't know much about, but if you take the trouble to educate yourself there is money to be made.


Thank you for the suggestion! I have little knowledge about trading options but I am interested. I just don't have the time to look into that area yet. I will look at those sites too thank you!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

blin10 said:


> my suggestion, find some part time work or something like that (that will be more beneficial)... when I started reading how you are a new mother, reading books, buying penny stocks (since you got limited funds) I'm shaking my head... sorry for the dose of reality but this is just not going to work... you cannot rely on luck at this stage in your life


Thanks Blin10. A lot of other people suggested the same and I appreciate your opinion!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Fraser19 said:


> I have been reading this thread and I am not sure what your plan is. Could you elaborate on what exactly you plan on doing?


Hi Fraser19. Originally my plan was to day trade or trade often that I could bring income to cover my monthly expenses. I found myself trapped, worried and discouraged. After reading all the comment and suggestions I've made some serious changes. I realized what's important for me in my CURRENT situation. I have passion in stock trading and I am going to use it to help better manage my savings and grow capital.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

My Own Advisor said:


> Hey FireFeather,
> 
> Here's a tip for stock investing, own what all the big ETFs and funds own  Other than that, index invest.


Thanks again !


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

FireFeather said:


> I put $1000 into RMX and holding the rest for other opportunities. It's not a lot of money but it's the amount of money I feel comfortable losing (I sure hope not!)


You most likely won't lose money on RMX. I have never traded it but I watch it a lot and I know it's movements. You'd probably have a hard time losing money with this one. I wouldn't worry about it.

What's more important is capital and how much you have to put into RMX. You put $1000 in already which means you probably have about 750 shares. On a 10 cent increase (which is about a 7% increase) you would only make $75 minus commissions. This is not very good.

With limited funds, the way I would play this would be with a minimum of ~$4,000.

Example: Initially, I would buy 1500 shares of RMX around $1.30/share. This means you would make $150 on a 7.5% increase. More Importantly: You would make $75 on a ~3.75% increase which is more likely to occur! Now, if the stock ends up falling say 10%, you can purchase another 1500 shares at $1.18 for an average cost of $1.24/share. If it ends up going back to your $1.30, you've made $180.

^ That's just how I would personally play something like RMX, though $1.30 is a bit steep for a first entry. I'd be more inclined to only purchase at or below $1.25


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

Financialplannerdube said:


> Hey FireFeather
> 
> Warning long answer
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your recommendation and all the encouraging words! After reading all the comments and suggestions on here, I've came to the realization that day trading may not be for me, but that doesn't mean I will give it up. I will keep trading and be active enough to keep myself informed with the market, just like you! Thanks for the tips, I'll look into them, maybe will probably come back with questions!


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

I read through the discussion between KaeJS, StockTrader, GoldStone and None. I just want to say what works for one doesn't mean it'll work for another. There's really no point arguing what method or which strategy is the best, as long as it works for you, who cares?! If I'm happy with the earning and my performance at the end of the day, that dollar # really is irrelevant.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

FireFeather said:


> I read through the discussion between KaeJS, StockTrader, GoldStone and None. I just want to say what works for one doesn't mean it'll work for another. There's really no point arguing what method or which strategy is the best, as long as it works for you, who cares?! If I'm happy with the earning and my performance at the end of the day, that dollar # really is irrelevant.


No but it's very easy to say that a certain strategy will very likely not work for anyone over time. If someone came here saying that they would play the lotto as a way to make money I'd say the same thing.


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## FireFeather (Apr 28, 2015)

KaeJS said:


> You most likely won't lose money on RMX. I have never traded it but I watch it a lot and I know it's movements. You'd probably have a hard time losing money with this one. I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> What's more important is capital and how much you have to put into RMX. You put $1000 in already which means you probably have about 750 shares. On a 10 cent increase (which is about a 7% increase) you would only make $75 minus commissions. This is not very good.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the detailed explanation KaeJS! I read about cost average but never understand it. With the example given, I got the concept now! I'm going to be carefully implementing this strategy since I entered RMX at a wrong time. 
You just made me realize no wonder I am not where I want to be right now, there are so much I don't know, so much to learn, I really should stop whining!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

FireFeather said:


> I'm going to be carefully implementing this strategy since I entered RMX at a wrong time.


But how can this be? KaeJS said wouldn't lose money on RMX?? Now I'm confused........

So if you average down *THEN* you won't lose money? Is that how investing works?


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

FireFeather said:


> Thank you for the detailed explanation KaeJS! I read about cost average but never understand it. With the example given, I got the concept now! I'm going to be carefully implementing this strategy since I entered RMX at a wrong time.
> You just made me realize no wonder I am not where I want to be right now, there are so much I don't know, so much to learn, I really should stop whining!


I'm currently holding 7200 shares of RMX bought last Friday at $1.30. It had a nice run-up and I just feel it's going to bounce with gold falling to $1175 last week. Now sitting at $1182 thinking it will go above $1200 briefly and down again. But if not rumours of production will get more intense each day so that's why it's a safe stock for now. Well we'll see where RMX share prices will go in less than an hour.


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

sell rmx $1.35


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

none said:


> But how can this be? KaeJS said wouldn't lose money on RMX?? Now I'm confused........
> 
> So if you average down *THEN* you won't lose money? Is that how investing works?


Actually - I said it wouldn't be likely that she loses money. I didn't say for certain she wouldn't lose money.

And RMX is up today. Seems to me like everything I said is just about right so far...


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