# Using credit cards to earn travel rewards



## montyloree (Jan 16, 2010)

It is so nice to spend vacation with your family or loved ones once in a while. Though this may sound quite expensive. 

One way to have that dream vacation, without too much worrying on expenses, is by earning points using travel rewards credit cards.

But the question is.. how can we earn more points?

Ive checked some companies and so far, I see that there is an ongoing offer from CIBC which will help us earn travel rewards credit card points faster.

Here are some features:

* Receive 15,000 Bonus Aeroplan Miles with your first purchase – enough for one Economy Class short-haul flight at the ClassicFlight® Reward3 level
* Earn 1 Aeroplan Mile for every dollar you spend on the card4
* 1.5 Aeroplan Miles for every dollar you spend at gas, grocery and drugstores5 Learn More
* Earn additional Aeroplan Miles when you use the card at participating Aeroplan Partners
* Enjoy access to every available seat on Air Canada and Air Canada Jazz, including Executive Class/Executive First®1 6
* A guarantee from CIBC that you will not lose your Aeroplan Miles due to 12 months inactivity


Have you guys tried any credit rewards program? Lets talk about the best travel rewards in Canada that we can try this JUNE.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

montyloree said:


> * Receive 15,000 Bonus Aeroplan Miles with your first purchase – enough for one Economy Class short-haul flight at the ClassicFlight® Reward3 level
> * Earn 1 Aeroplan Mile for every dollar you spend on the card4
> * 1.5 Aeroplan Miles for every dollar you spend at gas, grocery and drugstores5 Learn More
> * Earn additional Aeroplan Miles when you use the card at participating Aeroplan Partners


Are these status miles or just regular Aeroplan miles?
There is a big difference.


> Have you guys tried any credit rewards program? Lets talk about the best travel rewards in Canada that we can try this JUNE.


The travel rewards in Canada are not as great as in the US.
I believe TD and RBC tout great travel reward credit cards but I have no experience of those.
When I last looked into travel cards, they were no good and I simply got a plain cashback card.
Maybe things have changed now.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

If you guys are into aeroplan, then the AMEX SPG credit card will transfer 5k bonus points on 20k. To be more clear, it's $1 spending for 1 spg point, 20,000 spg points transferred to aeroplan = 25,000 aeroplan points. 

Downside is the $120 annual fee, but Aeroplan cards all have annual fees.


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

FYI, RFD has a nice page that breaks down different types of travel credit cards

http://creditcards.redflagdeals.com/t/Travel-Credit-Cards/

I myself have an AMEX SPG, I don't currently have a lot of SPG points but the intention is to accumulate enough for a 1-week hotel stay in Hawaii.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

I signed up for the AMEX spg card as well to extend my SPG account for another year. As an SPG collector via MBNA since 2004, I am significantly invested into the program.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I have been collecting AirMiles with my free BMO card. The best value by far is Dash 8 flights which is what Jazz uses to go to all the small airports in Canada. It costs me over $1000 to go home on 2 Dash 8 flights and $1000 would get you a long ways from TO (like Italy or wherever) For AirMiles however they charge by zones

I think AirMiles are better if they work for your situation, but Aeroplan miles are far more flexible. I travel a lot for work and I collect Aeroplan miles just to get into the Lounge

Personally I'm sick of the travel cards gimmicks and constant changes. I'm switching to the Smart Cash or TD for their $250 promo


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> Personally I'm sick of the travel cards gimmicks and constant changes. I'm switching to the Smart Cash or TD for their $250 promo


I got tired of collecting points and jumping through hoops to redeem for flights as well. I gave up and have a couple of cash back cards now.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> I got tired of collecting points and jumping through hoops to redeem for flights as well. I gave up and have a couple of cash back cards now.


Ditto - I have the CIBC Dividend card. Does the job and no annual fee.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Some banks will waive the annual fees if you have your mortgage with them.

When you calculate what you pay them in your mortgage interest, what is it to them to waive a $100-$120 cc fee to keep you happy, and to have you renew your mortgage with them.


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Rewards cards can be great if used wisely. It's important not to let the tail wag the dog. Obviously, these companies want card users to increase or alter their spending. I think individuals should examine their spending first then choose the card that suits their spending patterns. I avoid all aeroplan cards because I dislike flying on Air Canada. I chose air miles because it give the option of carriers besides Air Canada. 

After choosing a reward system, going "all in" will maximize rewards. I tend to shop at air miles vendors, so I "double" or even "triple" dip. However, I try to guard against excessive spending. I ask myself if I would buy without the rewards attached. If no, then I decline to spend. But if it's something I would buy anyways, why not get some monetary rewards? I use an air miles gold card from BMO, which carries an annual fee. Howver, I receive multiples of the annual fees in rewards. Someone mentioned that aeroplan miles were more flexible than air miles. I'm not convinced. In addition to travel, over the past 12 months, I've used my air miles to receive $200 worth of iTunes cards and $400 of Chapters cards.

If you don't go "all in," then a no-fee cashback card (there are many good ones) is an excellent choice.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

We like to travel business class for most flights so the best plan is Aeroplan because you can redeem for business class travel. Obviously it takes more points but since business class is so expensive it makes sense. As an examle we just booked 2 business class tickets Toronto/Hong Kong for next April (to catch a bike trip in Viet Nam). This cost 2X115,000 points but would have cost over $10,000X2=$20,000 to pay cash. It really isn't worth redeeming points for economy travel as it is so cheap anyway. Best card is Platinum AMEX Aeroplan for collecting Aeroplan points. We get about 300,000-400,000 points a year using this card as the rate is 1.5 for every dollar spent. Costs about $750 per year but gives us other perks as well. Obviously you must pay the credit card balance each month or this strategy is foolish. It also helps to be retired so you can plan these trips well in advance to get the flights you want.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

I hate Aeroplan with a passion due to the difficulty in redeeming points for flights and so years ago switched to Royal Bank Avion. With Avion when you redeem points they are actually buying your ticket so there is no problem getting seats on any flight with availability. So much better than Aeroplan where I still have points left over and 80% of the time I call them I can't get seats or have to look at flights where you change planes 3 times and take 18 hours to get somewhere that should only take 4 hours. IMO Avion is well worth the $125 annual fee. Of course you need to spend a ton on the card to rack up points but that has never been my problem as I use it for business and personal every chance I get.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

We have the TD Infinite Travel card, which we like, but there's a $170/yr fee which includes $50 for one supplimental card. We always get at least $1K/yr in free travel (no bloody miles... it's cash... you book something, they give you the $ back on the card. If you book through them (you can get the same seat sales you find anywhere) you get 3x's the points.

The annual fee is high, which is why we are considering plunking 5K into getting a Select Service account which will waive the fees for the card. But is 5K sitting in an account worth $170/yr? I'm not sure about that, we have to crunch the numbers.

All in all we're happy with the TD Infinite Travel Visa.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Addy said:


> The annual fee is high, which is why we are considering plunking 5K into getting a Select Service account which will waive the fees for the card. But is 5K sitting in an account worth $170/yr? I'm not sure about that, we have to crunch the numbers.


I think you also have to add in the fact that you wouldn't pay any monthly fees on your other accounts with TD (chequing, for example, which would probably otherwise cost you another $140/year or so).

Right now interest rates are so low that tying up $5,000/year isn't going to lose you a lot of money in interest, so if you're saving $310 in combined fees that's pretty good. Just remember that if you ever, even for one minute, drop your balance below $5,000 you'll get dinged with all the fees for that month. That's the risk.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Ihatetaxes said:


> I hate Aeroplan with a passion due to the difficulty in redeeming points for flights and so years ago switched to Royal Bank Avion. With Avion when you redeem points they are actually buying your ticket so there is no problem getting seats on any flight with availability. So much better than Aeroplan where I still have points left over and 80% of the time I call them I can't get seats or have to look at flights where you change planes 3 times and take 18 hours to get somewhere that should only take 4 hours. IMO Avion is well worth the $125 annual fee. Of course you need to spend a ton on the card to rack up points but that has never been my problem as I use it for business and personal every chance I get.


Agree with your strategy as long as you fly economy. We fly business class mostly. Too expensive to redeem Avion points for this. As long as you book well in advance and are flexible you can usually get what you want in my experience. Just saved $20,000 for Hong Kong flights. Hard to see how anything else could pay off this big?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Larry6417 said:


> Someone mentioned that aeroplan miles were more flexible than air miles. I'm not convinced. choice.


Maybe I was assuming the grass was greener on the other side. I just fly Air Can for work and the pts get me into the lounge

I actually had a grandfathered BMO plan where the Gold card fee waved my bank fees. However I can maintain the min balance anyways

I have the same strategy as you. Things I would buy anyways I get at Airmiles sponsors. I notice however I will go out of my way to find a Shell and pay a few extra pennies/liter. I also wonder about Airmiles losing value over time.

The rewards may provide better return than cash back but I could also find good deals or save that cash


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## Elbyron (Apr 3, 2009)

Square Root is exactly right: Aeroplan is a great choice for business class travellers. But, for those of us whose budgets restrict us to economy (and who don't spend enough to earn hundreds of thousands of points), collecting Aeroplan miles isn't always the best option - especially with the "hoops" you have to jump through to redeem. Only a limited numbers of seats are available for redemption on most flights, and there may be blackout periods. And of course the Aeroplan points have a 7-year lifespan and then they're removed.

Air Miles can also be difficult to redeem, and barring any specials, you typically only get a value of about $0.15 per mile. But the Air Miles credit cards out there earn you 1 point for every $15, so that's only a 1% return, and 1.5% on purchases from Air Miles sponsors.

The RBC Avion is the next step up, as you don't have as many redemption restrictions. You can book any economy seat on any airline, but it has to be done through HRG (RBC's travel agency). And their redemption system is setup so that you could get anywhere from 0.5% to 2.33%, depending on the before-tax cost of the flight. For example, for a flight from Toronto to New York on July 1 - 5, the best deal I can find is $205 plus taxes. Thus redeeming 15,000 points for this flight is only a return of 1.37%. But for certain dates, the same flight could become more expensive. If it were to cost $350 before taxes, I still only need 15,000 points and so the return is 2.33%. It's hard to figuire out the distribution of flight prices for each tier of travel, but I figure that on average you get about 1.6% return on short haul flights, 1.7% on long-haul, and around 1.75% for farther distances. Factor in the $120 annual fee plus $50 per extra card, and your return is diminished even further. Of course, if you live in places where all flights are more expensive or you often fly at expensive times of the year, then you'll see more benefit out of this card, perhaps exceeding 2%.
CIBC's Aventura card is very similar to Avion, but their point redemption chart has ranges on it that make it difficult to compare.

The TD Platinum or Infinite cards have no restrictions, and no redemption tiers (though you have to redeem for at least $50 worth of points). The only problem? Only 1.5% return. But you can earn double (or triple with Infinite) the points on travel purchases made through their travel agency, so if you do a lot of travelling you could easily beat 2%. For example, if I used the Infinite card for travel only, and put $10,000 worth of travel on it through their travel agency, I would earn $450 worth of travel. Even subtracting the $120 fee from that leaves you with a 3.3% return!

In my opinion, the best travel card is the Capital One Miles Plus Platinum Mastercard. For some reason this one wasn't compared in the RFD article, so here's the details:
(EDIT: Capital One has since released the new Aspire World card, which easily trumps the Miles Plus card. Click here for my review on MDJ)
Annual fee is $99 and no charge for 2nd card. You get 2 points per dollar spent, and the redemption rate is 100 points per dollar. So that works out to a 2% return (slightly less after factoring in the annual fee), and there are no travel restrictions. The Canadian version of this card does have redemption tiers: a travel charge on your card up to $150 can be credited back for 15,000 points, between $150 and $350 costs 35,000 points, and between $350 and $600 costs 60,000 points. The tiers vanish after $600, as it just becomes 100 points per dollar. But there is a workaround: you can usually ask an airline or hotel to break the charge into two parts, and you can then set one of the amounts to exactly $150 or $350. 
There's also a no-fee version of this card that earns 1 point per dollar.

The nice thing about the Captial One and TD cards, is that you can book a last-minute deal, or book first class if you like. You have the freedom to use your favorite travel agency, or book online or over the phone. And you can redeem on hotels, car rentals, vacation packages, and cruises too. Both these banks offer the typical platinum benefits plus lost baggage insurance. The Infinite card adds trip cancellation/interruption insurance and travel medical insurance (RBC Avion also has interruption and medical).


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Elbyron said:


> Square Root is exactly right: Aeroplan is a great choice for business class travellers. But, for those of us whose budgets restrict us to economy (and who don't spend enough to earn hundreds of thousands of points), collecting Aeroplan miles isn't always the best option - especially with the "hoops" you have to jump through to redeem. Only a limited numbers of seats are available for redemption on most flights, and there may be blackout periods. And of course the Aeroplan points have a 7-year lifespan and then they're removed.
> 
> Air Miles can also be difficult to redeem, and barring any specials, you typically only get a value of about $0.15 per mile. But the Air Miles credit cards out there earn you 1 point for every $15, so that's only a 1% return, and 1.5% on purchases from Air Miles sponsors.
> 
> ...


Could you go over your math for your comparisons? I use Air Miles, and I actually find them to be quite flexible. However, there's no doubt that the value of Air Miles and aeroplan miles have diminished. The exact value of reward miles depends on how you collect and use miles. 

For example, I can "triple dip" with my Air Miles. If I purchase, say Chapters gift cards, at Safeways I receive Air Miles from Safeways (5 miles for a $100 purchase), 10 Air Miles from Amex (the air miles platinum gives 1 air mile per $10 from air miles vendors). If I redeem these gift cards through airmilesshops.ca (and I do) then I receive 5 air miles from airmilesshops (1 mile per $20). Therefore, $100 yields 20 air miles. LMG (loyalty management group) allows one to redeem air miles for Chapters cards; 365 air miles yields one $50 card. Theoretically, (I spend a lot on books, but not this much!) doing the above 18.25 times (purchase of $1,825) would give enough air miles for a $50 card, which works out to a yield of 2.74% ($50/$1825). Please note that calculation does not take advantage of special offers which would substantially improve the yield. 

I'm sure the same can be done with aeroplan miles, but I dislike flying Air Canada. Also, since Air Canada spun aeroplan out of itself, redeeming rewards seems to be more difficult and more expensive.

Rewards cards are so complex that easy comparisons are difficult.


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## Elbyron (Apr 3, 2009)

You may have a theoretical maximum yield of 2.74%, but as you said yourself, you don't spend enough on books to be trading in all your Air Miles for Chapters gift cards. Collecting points is only worth it if you can redeem them all for something you would normally buy anyways. The Chapters cards by the way, are only giving you 13.7 cents per mile. The other gift cards, like iTunes, Rona, or HBC all have even lower return. I calculated the costs of a bunch of flights to various destinations (all originating from Edmonton though), and divided that by the number of Air Miles required for the same flights. That's where I came up with 15 cents per mile.

Any miles you collect as an Air Miles card holder, whether it be through shopping at Safeway or airmilesshops.ca, can be earned without the Amex card, so they do not count when calculating the card's return. Your Amex card is only giving you 0.1 miles per dollar at Air Miles sponsors, which is 1.5%. At all other stores, you only get 1.0%. So, it's really not that great of a card, especially given the limited acceptance of Amex. If you like fee-free cards, you would be better off with the MBNA Smart Cash card that gives you 3% on gas & grocery purchases (including Safeway) and 1% at all other stores. You could buy your books with the cashback reward! But the Capital One miles plus card still beats the Smart Cash card, provided you spend more than $25000/year on it.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Elbyron said:


> You may have a theoretical maximum yield of 2.74%, but as you said yourself, you don't spend enough on books to be trading in all your Air Miles for Chapters gift cards. Collecting points is only worth it if you can redeem them all for something you would normally buy anyways. The Chapters cards by the way, are only giving you 13.7 cents per mile. The other gift cards, like iTunes, Rona, or HBC all have even lower return. I calculated the costs of a bunch of flights to various destinations (all originating from Edmonton though), and divided that by the number of Air Miles required for the same flights. That's where I came up with 15 cents per mile.
> 
> Any miles you collect as an Air Miles card holder, whether it be through shopping at Safeway or airmilesshops.ca, can be earned without the Amex card, so they do not count when calculating the card's return. Your Amex card is only giving you 0.1 miles per dollar at Air Miles sponsors, which is 1.5%. At all other stores, you only get 1.0%. So, it's really not that great of a card, especially given the limited acceptance of Amex. If you like fee-free cards, you would be better off with the MBNA Smart Cash card that gives you 3% on gas & grocery purchases (including Safeway) and 1% at all other stores. You could buy your books with the cashback reward! But the Capital One miles plus card still beats the Smart Cash card, provided you spend more than $25000/year on it.


Good posts-Thanks. Life sure is getting complicated isn't it.


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Elbyron said:


> You may have a theoretical maximum yield of 2.74%, but as you said yourself, you don't spend enough on books to be trading in all your Air Miles for Chapters gift cards. Collecting points is only worth it if you can redeem them all for something you would normally buy anyways. The Chapters cards by the way, are only giving you 13.7 cents per mile. The other gift cards, like iTunes, Rona, or HBC all have even lower return. I calculated the costs of a bunch of flights to various destinations (all originating from Edmonton though), and divided that by the number of Air Miles required for the same flights. That's where I came up with 15 cents per mile.
> 
> Also, I never said that 2.74% was my maximum yield. That's the yield without special bonuses or offers.
> 
> Any miles you collect as an Air Miles card holder, whether it be through shopping at Safeway or airmilesshops.ca, can be earned without the Amex card, so they do not count when calculating the card's return. Your Amex card is only giving you 0.1 miles per dollar at Air Miles sponsors, which is 1.5%. At all other stores, you only get 1.0%. So, it's really not that great of a card, especially given the limited acceptance of Amex. If you like fee-free cards, you would be better off with the MBNA Smart Cash card that gives you 3% on gas & grocery purchases (including Safeway) and 1% at all other stores. You could buy your books with the cashback reward! But the Capital One miles plus card still beats the Smart Cash card, provided you spend more than $25000/year on it.


The point I'm trying to make is that it's not possible to make the blanket assertions that you've made. I don't spend that much in books over a year, but I would spend that amount over 2-3 years. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the air miles from Amex "don't count." Using the Amex, in addition to my normal collector card and airmilesshops, gives me more air miles than not doing so. 

Yes, I do realize that the redemptions for Chapters cards are favourable. Why do you think I redeem for them? Also, I don't accept your calcuations of what 1 air mile is worth. That calculation depends on how you collect and how you redeem. For example, I use my air miles to fly round trip from Edmonton to Lethbridge during the holidays. Even though the distance is short, the cost is high (likely because WestJet doesn't fly there). Because many carriers fly to New York, the cost is the same or frequently lower. Therefore, it's cost effective for me to redeem miles to fly to Lethbridge but buy a ticket to New York. If you exclude some air miles from your calculations because they "don't count," then your numbers aren't going to match mine. 

It sounds as if you've found a way to make your rewards cards work for you. I've found a way to make the air miles work for me.


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## canadianbanks (Jun 5, 2009)

I keep getting these offers from CIBC for their Visa Aerogold credit card, and I would get one if it wasn't for the yearly fee.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

My wife and I purposefully racked up tens of thousands of aeroplan points with a CIBC card (if i recall correctly) and with some from a family member were able to fly first class to Poland. Just gotta say that first class makes transatlantic flights AWESOME! BEST SERVICE I HAVE EVER HAD ANYWHERE. I seriously did not want leave the plane.

However, the dozens of attempts to get us both on the same flight using points was a terrible experience. We would litterally have to take turns on hold or on the phone with a useless booking agent while the other got some sleep before their shift on the phone. I am not exaggerating but it took a few weeks to confirm and book the flights. And yes were super flexible about the departure and return dates, as well as destination and departure cities.

Based on this experience we both decided to never again do this and got the CIBC card with percentages back. 

Having said all that my buddy has the TD card that has super flexible points for restaurants in hotels etc. and is using it constantly and enjoying the benefits.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

DavidJD said:


> And yes were super flexible about the departure and return dates, as well as destination and departure cities


Correction this should read "And yes we were super flexible about the departure dates, as well as destination and departure cities" Despite that there was so little available we decided the value in points was lost.

Seat sales from now on.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

DavidJD said:


> My wife and I purposefully racked up tens of thousands of aeroplan points with a CIBC card (if i recall correctly) and with some from a family member were able to fly first class to Poland. Just gotta say that first class makes transatlantic flights AWESOME! BEST SERVICE I HAVE EVER HAD ANYWHERE. I seriously did not want leave the plane.
> 
> However, the dozens of attempts to get us both on the same flight using points was a terrible experience. We would litterally have to take turns on hold or on the phone with a useless booking agent while the other got some sleep before their shift on the phone. I am not exaggerating but it took a few weeks to confirm and book the flights. And yes were super flexible about the departure and return dates, as well as destination and departure cities.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear your experience was poor. Our experience has been much better. These flights can be booked on the internet 355 days before flying. This will likely require some change afterwards as both outbound and inbound flights cannot be booked simultaneously 355 days in advance. In this regard patience is definately a virtue. I have my personal travel agent (darling wife) book all our travel and she is excellent. As I said in a previous post we have flown all over the world business class on points. American also has a pretty good deal where you can use points to upgrade to First/Business class. Done this to Europe/South America. Nothing beats the value of a free or greatly reduced long haul business class ticket IMHO.


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## Elbyron (Apr 3, 2009)

Larry6417 said:


> The point I'm trying to make is that it's not possible to make the blanket assertions that you've made. I don't spend that much in books over a year, but I would spend that amount over 2-3 years.


If you earn more Chapters gift cards per year than you spend on books per year, then you've got those extra gift cards to use. But I suppose you could always give them as gifts. You could also use some of the points for other gift cards, which are less favourable. Really my point here is that, in general, people should only collect points that can be redeemed for something they would actually spend their money on if they didn't have the points.


Larry6417 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the air miles from Amex "don't count." Using the Amex, in addition to my normal collector card and airmilesshops, gives me more air miles than not doing so.


I'm not trying to attack your Amex card, I'm just trying to explain that when you calculate how much your credit card pays you back, you can't count points that are not earned as a direct result of using the credit card. Your Amex card doesn't give you more miles from airmilesshops than mine does. And you and I both get 5 miles per $100 spent at Safeway, that is not a benefit of your card. What your card is giving you is an extra 10 miles per $100, or 6.66 miles per $100 at other stores. It doesn't matter how else you accumulate air miles, only those miles that the Amex card gives you can be counted when comparing its return against the return of other cards. 


Larry6417 said:


> If you exclude some air miles from your calculations because they "don't count," then your numbers aren't going to match mine.


Your numbers don't match mine because you're trying to calculate the benefit of being an Air Miles collector, and I'm trying to calculate the benefit of having the Amex Air Miles card. The purpose of my original posting was to compare credit cards, not reward programs.


Larry6417 said:


> Yes, I do realize that the redemptions for Chapters cards are favourable. Why do you think I redeem for them? Also, I don't accept your calcuations of what 1 air mile is worth. That calculation depends on how you collect and how you redeem. For example, I use my air miles to fly round trip from Edmonton to Lethbridge during the holidays. Even though the distance is short, the cost is high (likely because WestJet doesn't fly there). Because many carriers fly to New York, the cost is the same or frequently lower. Therefore, it's cost effective for me to redeem miles to fly to Lethbridge but buy a ticket to New York.


Ok, let's use your example. High season flight from YEG to YQL costs $580+tax on Air Canada (this really surprised me, I mean I could fly to Cuba for less!). The same trip during high season costs 1125 air miles. So the air miles value is 51 cents per mile - far better than the 13.7 you get for Chapters cards. For your Amex card (alone) to earn 1125 miles, you must spend $11,250 at air miles sponsors, or $16,875 at non-sponsors. Let's say half your spending is at sponsors, then you need to spend close to 14K to earn enough points to save you $580. Your return on the Amex card when used for high-season flights is thus 4.1%, without the annual fee factored in. So if you regularly fly to Lethbridge during the holiday season, then you are right: this card is definitely better for you. I'd also like to add that given the choice to redeem for these flights vs the Chapters cards, you can see that the flights give you 3.4 times more value!


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Elbyron, thank you for your informative and insightful comments. My apologies if I sound defensive. I really shouldn't be. All you're doing is sharing some hard-earned wisdom. 

I see your point about incremental value of credit cards. The Air Miles collector card is free, so I think it is reasonable, as you've suggested, to evaluate credit cards only for their incremental benefits.

Thank you for mentioning the Smart Cash card from MBNA. I presently have an MBNA PremierRewards Card (shouldn't it be called the so-so rewards card now?) and had not heard of the Smart Cash card. If we look at the incremental value of the Amex platinum Air miles card, then it would add 10 air miles for $100 of purchases at an air miles vendor. Since a $50 Chapters card costs 365 air miles, one would have to spend $3650 to obtain a $50 gift card (a paltry incremental yield of $50/$3650 = 1.4%). If I were to use the Smart Cash Card only for groceries/ gas (and I would), then my yield would be 3%. Once you take into account the $50 annual fee, then the Smart Cash, which has no annual fee, is even better. 

As you've mentioned the travel is actually a better use of miles. The price you quote for round trip travel between Edmonton and Lethbridge is actually quite cheap for the holidays. I looked at Expedia recently, and it listed the price as ~$780 (around New Year) including taxes - $700 without taxes i.e. the portion that Air Miles covers. I also hold a BMO Gold Air Miles card (yes! another fee! ). However, this card reduces the air miles I need to fly by 25%, so a trip to Lethbridge would cost 843 air miles at peak times. If I spent $8430 at air miles vendors then I would accumulate 843 air miles with the Amex card for a yield of $700/$8430 = 8.3%. But of course, not all my spending would be at air miles vendors, and not all my redemptions would be for such costly, short-haul flights.

I've actually been thinking about getting rid of my Amex Platinum for a while because of the recent upgrades to the BMO Gold Air miles card. Fewer air miles are awarded to the BMO card (1 per $15), but fewer are needed to fly (25%). Also, if you have $5,000 or more in your accounts at BMO (and I usually do) then your air miles are increased by 25%. Therefore, the BMO Gold card offers 1 air mile per $12 at all vendors (if you have $5,000 in your BMO accounts) while the Amex offers 1 air mile per $10 at air miles vendors and 1 air mile per $15 everywhere else. I'll cancel my Amex a little bit before the next annual fee is due. I originally got the Amex platinum to shop at Costco. I'll probably use the True Earnings card instead of the Platinum Air Miles card.

I applied for the Smart Cash MBNA card recently, and doing so was a massive hassle! I spoke to 5 different "customer (dis)satisfaction specialists" and heard 5 different things. The first person I spoke to said that it was available only by invitation - perhaps true initially. However, I pointed out that the MBNA website now accepts applications directly from the public. She said she was unable to take my application, so she transferred me to someone who could. The next person also said he could not. Eventually, after 4 different people, the fifth took my application over the phone. However, my Premier Rewards account was not transferred to a Smart Cash account; I had to open a new card. MDJ said that the account could be transferred, and given the knowledge of the customer representatives I spoke to, he may be right. 

Thanks again for all your insights Elbyron!


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I earned about $1500 in rewards last year from about three different cards, but none of that was from travel cards. 

However to make my post on topic, I have earned two free nights at the westin maui from my new Amex SPG card. The room is now selling for $400/night..

Also, I have the new Westjet mastercard, received $100 Westjet dollars on my first purchase and first year fee waived. I will be canceling the card when they
charged the yearly fee next year. 

In total I have 8 credit cards. (I just cancelled two as well! ) None of them hold an interest charging balances.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

Jungle said:


> I earned about $1500 in rewards last year from about three different cards, but none of that was from travel cards.
> 
> However to make my post on topic, I have earned two free nights at the westin maui from my new Amex SPG card. The room is now selling for $400/night..
> 
> ...


just how much may i ask did u hv to spend in order to earn $1500 in rewards. going by the general rule of thumb of 1%, was it $150000 in a year? even if was 2%, $75000? this amounts to $6000 per month. did u spend that much or was there a smarter way to earn the points (other than sign in bonus) ?


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

*cash back credit cards*

i was reading the "Capital One Aspire World MasterCard Review" in the home page of MDJ today. is this card better than MBNA smart cash card, which I use and is free?

i was wondering if there is a comparison done on when to switch over from free cash back cards to paid rewards cards. is there a general rule of thumb saying if you spend over $X per month using credit cards, then your net rewards would be better with a paid card?


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

rookie said:


> i was reading the "Capital One Aspire World MasterCard Review" in the home page of MDJ today. is this card better than MBNA smart cash card, which I use and is free?
> 
> i was wondering if there is a comparison done on when to switch over from free cash back cards to paid rewards cards. is there a general rule of thumb saying if you spend over $X per month using credit cards, then your net rewards would be better with a paid card?


I think it depends on your habits and how much you value travel and insurances. For me, I have the Smart Cash for my gas and groceries (3% return), and the AMEX SPG (free year) for everything else where possible. After the free year, there is a high probability that I'll switch to the Aspire World as we plan on taking regular vacations. The insurance benefits are really the top of the class.


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## allgood (May 17, 2010)

I have the Scotia Passport Gold card, which hasn't been mentioned here yet. The card yields 1% on travel, so 5,000 points equals $50 off your trip. I like that I can buy flights using a combination of cash and points - so I don't need to wait years to see the benefit. The card also gives 5% cash back on travel booked through their travel site. I've compared flight prices,m and the seem to be the same as on the westjet and aircanada websites. 

With a $120/year fee, this isn't a standout rewards program. However, for professionals, scotia ofers a banking package of $10 per month, unlimited transactions, and waives the annual fee. I don't like annual fees, and this card is a rather good one when compared with no fee cards.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

FrugalTrader said:


> I think it depends on your habits and how much you value travel and insurances. For me, I have the Smart Cash for my gas and groceries (3% return), and the AMEX SPG (free year) for everything else where possible. After the free year, there is a high probability that I'll switch to the Aspire World as we plan on taking regular vacations. The insurance benefits are really the top of the class.


i have manulife world travel insurance through work which includes personal pleasure trips as well. so i do not care about insurance through credit card 



allgood said:


> With a $120/year fee, this isn't a standout rewards program. However, for professionals, scotia ofers a banking package of $10 per month, unlimited transactions, and waives the annual fee. I don't like annual fees, and this card is a rather good one when compared with no fee cards.


my rbc a/c has no fees because of their multiproduct rebate which does not include a paid credit card


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## Elbyron (Apr 3, 2009)

rookie said:


> i was reading the "Capital One Aspire World MasterCard Review" in the home page of MDJ today. is this card better than MBNA smart cash card, which I use and is free?
> 
> i was wondering if there is a comparison done on when to switch over from free cash back cards to paid rewards cards. is there a general rule of thumb saying if you spend over $X per month using credit cards, then your net rewards would be better with a paid card?


The general rule of thumb is just simple math. The equation for the Smart Cash card is simple if you assume that you're going to max out the $600 Gas & Grocery amount each month: ($X - 12*600)*0.01 + 12*600*0.03, which reduces to ($X - 7200)*0.01 + 216
The equation for the Aspire card is $X*0.02 - 20, assuming you always redeem for amounts over $600 or use the tricks outlined in my review to get the full 2% return.

If you set these equations equal to each other and solve for X, you find that the break-even point is at $16,400 of spending. Beyond that, Aspire will have the better returns. If you spend, say $30k, then the Aspire card has a net $580 reward while Smart Cash only pays you $444. If you want to see the equations graphed for these two cards, along with some other good rewards cards, I've uploaded a chart I made in Excel. Notice that the best pay-back actually comes from using a combination of Aspire and Smart Cash. To get the maximum reward, you charge the first $600 of gas and groceries each month to Smart Cash, and any amount beyond that or any other types of purchases all go on the Aspire card.

Now, before people start chewing me out over my graphs of the other cards, please read this disclaimer: _the values I assigned to Avion and Aerogold are based on my personal travel habits_. Under certain situations, those cards can earn a higher reward than Aspire (see my discussions with Larry above). TD Infinite is calculated based on the assumption that 10% of the charges on the card would be spent on travel using the TD travel agency (this portion earns 4.5%, the rest is 1.5%).

If you want to compare benefits, there are some good tables that other people have made. There's a good one at rewardscanada.ca and also a Google doc created by an RFD member named brunes (on this one, note that the average return for some cards is only based on 3 specific flights from YYZ, including a First Class flight to Hong Kong for $8100 that could be found for $3275 on different dates. This makes Aeroplan look very attractive!).


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## allgood (May 17, 2010)

rookie said:


> i have manulife world travel insurance through work which includes personal pleasure trips as well. so i do not care about insurance through credit card
> 
> 
> 
> my rbc a/c has no fees because of their multiproduct rebate which does not include a paid credit card


What products do you need to have with RBC to have all account fees waived?


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## Elbyron (Apr 3, 2009)

allgood said:


> What products do you need to have with RBC to have all account fees waived?


To get the basic account ($4/month) or a student account for free you need an active RBC credit card (you still pay the credit card fees, if any) and an investment such as a GIC or mutual fund with them. For a free no-limit account ($10.95) you need to also have a mortgage with them. The minimum investment you can make is to open a TFSA with $100.

I've shopped for mortgages 3 times in the past year (on two properties) and RBC usually had rates that were only average. They won't match the rates/promotions offered by other banks and you can't get a RBC mortgage through a broker. 
Their GICs and mutual funds are pretty poor too, IMHO. 
So basically, if you're an RBC banking client and want to save yourself $10.95/month, you have to live with average mortgage rates and bad investments, which could easily cost you a lot more in the long run! Or, you could give up on bricks & mortar banks and get a free unlimited account with PC Financial.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

Elbyron said:


> To get the basic account ($4/month) or a student account for free you need an active RBC credit card (you still pay the credit card fees, if any) and an investment such as a GIC or mutual fund with them. For a free no-limit account ($10.95) you need to also have a mortgage with them. The minimum investment you can make is to open a TFSA with $100.
> 
> I've shopped for mortgages 3 times in the past year (on two properties) and RBC usually had rates that were only average. They won't match the rates/promotions offered by other banks and you can't get a RBC mortgage through a broker.
> Their GICs and mutual funds are pretty poor too, IMHO.
> So basically, if you're an RBC banking client and want to save yourself $10.95/month, you have to live with average mortgage rates and bad investments, which could easily cost you a lot more in the long run! Or, you could give up on bricks & mortar banks and get a free unlimited account with PC Financial.


thanks for answering the question. i agree with your comments on rbc products and services. i am stuck with them for now and till then, i might as well make the most of what i can.

one note though. you do not have to have a lot of investment in rbc though. you could just open a TFSA with 25$ to qualify


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

Elbyron said:


> The general rule of thumb is just simple math. The equation for the Smart Cash card is simple if you assume that you're going to max out the $600 Gas & Grocery amount each month: ($X - 12*600)*0.01 + 12*600*0.03, which reduces to ($X - 7200)*0.01 + 216
> The equation for the Aspire card is $X*0.02 - 20, assuming you always redeem for amounts over $600 or use the tricks outlined in my review to get the full 2% return.
> 
> If you set these equations equal to each other and solve for X, you find that the break-even point is at $16,400 of spending. Beyond that, Aspire will have the better returns. If you spend, say $30k, then the Aspire card has a net $580 reward while Smart Cash only pays you $444. If you want to see the equations graphed for these two cards, along with some other good rewards cards, I've uploaded a chart I made in Excel. Notice that the best pay-back actually comes from using a combination of Aspire and Smart Cash. To get the maximum reward, you charge the first $600 of gas and groceries each month to Smart Cash, and any amount beyond that or any other types of purchases all go on the Aspire card.
> ...


thanks. the equation is pretty simple. looks like its time to apply for another card . shall let my wife be the primary owner this time around


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## Y&T2010 (Dec 29, 2009)

I am a HUGE no fee travel reward card fan.

HUGE.

I loved the SPG MBNA card but it is toast now, and just got the AMEX SPG card (no fee for the first year). It gave 10,000 bonus points, and as frugal trader said, you get 5000 bonus points for transferring 20,000 points over to an airline points program.

Petrocanada's no fee mastercard can help you accumulate Asia Miles (Cathay Pacific) to the tune of 1:1, pretty good considering Asia Miles Visa (I forgot which bank it's with) has a fee of $120 a month.

The drawback with asia miles is that they expire after 3 years.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

rookie said:


> just how much may i ask did u hv to spend in order to earn $1500 in rewards. going by the general rule of thumb of 1%, was it $150000 in a year? even if was 2%, $75000? this amounts to $6000 per month. did u spend that much or was there a smarter way to earn the points (other than sign in bonus) ?


Various ways, mostly through promotional sign-up offers. For example, in no order:

At one point, the GM visa was offering us 5% reward for about 6 months, and it's normally 3% regular. This was during christmas so we put all shopping on it, plus a vacation and we used it to apply a good down payment for our suv, then paid the card off so we were not charged interest. We earned quite a bit by doing this..

Smartcash was 6% on gas/grocery, 1% on everything else for 6 months, now 3%. Received $250 worth of cheque(s) in one year. 

Got two free category five nights on the new SPG card, my wife and I signed up for two new cards and joined the points. We used it in Westin Maui, the price of the room did vary, but it was going for around $400us per night when I last checked, it's a sell out hotel because it's a stunning resort. So you could say $500-$800 usd for two nights free? Price varies.

Westjet mastercard, got $100 for signing up, I bought muffin at Tim Hortons using pay pass to get the credit. It gives me 1.5% on all other purchases, no fee for one year. I will cancel before the fee kicks in. I am now using this card for everything except gas and groceries, because I have to fly next year to Calgary for a wedding. 

Sony mastercard, got $100 for signing up, no credit check either as I "converted" to this card from MBNA. No fee card too. 

Shoppers Optimum card, got something ($20, I forget?) for signing up, no credit check, card was converted. Bonus point redemption days add up huge. Min 6% reward I believe. 

Pc mastercard, they have so many free things, I get mailed bonus coupons all the time for points to get me to actively use my card more, they had a HUGE 20X bonus points redemption at Superstore a while back, then they had more bonus points for spending those 20X points!! Then I got points for doing a no obligation insurance quote! It crazy, they must be loosing money with me. They add up, I have redeemed $20, $30 and $40 a few times. I'm guessing in the last year maybe $120-150?? 

I also have a 0% card from MBNA which lasts 15 months. I am deferring some debt on it. But I don't count that as rewards, just interest savings. 

There's probably more that I forget about. I currently have 8 credit cards and I just cancelled two cause MBNA said I have too many. For the people reading this thinking my credit score is toast, it's actually mid 740 last time I checked with equifax, because I keep the following things in mind:

I don't keep balances, always paid off in full, except with the 0% card. 

Applying for credit cards lowers your score by 5-10 points so I not try to apply for more than 3-5 credit products per year and I spread them out, never hit that credit rating all at the same time. 

MBNA split my available credit from other cards into a new cards without a credit hit!! I've done it three times. 

I keep my cards open and active for as long as possible, even if I don't use it. Canceling cards lowers your credit score because 30% or so is calculated on the time and history of open accounts. I think FICO is flawed with this, so I'll keep them forever, if the company lets me. I have some sitting in a safe, collecting dust. 

I lower my available credit, too much and the credit underwriter can deny you on future credit.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Just got my notice in the mail that TD travel rewards are decreasing the value of redemption points....currently it sits at 200 pts per dollar to redeem, going to reduce to 250pts per dollar for the first $1200 redeemed, then after that will be 200 pts per dollar. 

Oh, the reasons I dislike banks....

I know (I can hear forum members already), "buy more bank shares".....


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## BrettHarry (Jun 17, 2015)

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## BrettHarry (Jun 17, 2015)

*fuzzy wuzzy*

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you can get a detailed report on what your expenses are for that month and how much 

you have saved! you guys should try it out  http://goo.gl/tzEXhy


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## christinad (Apr 30, 2013)

So, my understanding is it is now $40.00 per 10000 points while it used to be 50.00. They are being sneaky with new language trying to mask this. Another reason to get rid of it.


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## christinad (Apr 30, 2013)

Does anyone know what percent return this works out to? I am having trouble wrapping my head around the math. I think it used to be just over 1%. It wouldn't surprise me if it is less than 1% return now.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

It used to be 1.5, with the change it's now 1.2%.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

If you want a travel reward cards, use a cash back credit card and simply use the cash built up when you buy any plane ticket you want on the credit card.

Bingo - travel rewards and no headaches and no annual fees!


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## cedebe (Feb 1, 2012)

As much as people bash travel rewards cards like Visa Aeroplan, I personally find them better than cash back. I pay only $39 for my classic Visa at CIBC so I earn less/transaction, but I pick up miles on Ebay and with Hertz rentals, for example. 1000+ miles per/one day rental that cost me less than $30 is a better deal than a 1-2% cash back card.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

For travel rewards I use the capital one aspire travel world mastercard. Luckily I signed up before the new, watered down version replaced it (earlier this year). It pays 2% on all purchases and has an annual fee of $120 but also has an anniversary bonus of 10,000 reward miles so the annual fee is essentially $20.

I'm not a big fan of any annual fee but this card makes sense and the sign up bonus of 35,000 reward miles (equivalent to $350) was the icing on the cake.

The rewards are tiered so its not perfect and you need to use 60,000 reward miles or more ($600) to get the equivalent of 1:1 for the reward miles


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

^ same boat as you (OurBigFatWallet) though I would add that you don't need to spend 600 bucks to maximize the points.

Anywhere up to $150 costs 15,000 points, and anywhere above that up to $350 costs 35,000 points. So if you have something that costs just under $150 or just under $350, you're still getting very close to the most efficient point redemption.

Also I'd try to split the bill if I had an amount under 600 that fit poorly into the categories. What I mean is... well, an example: say you are paying $180 for something that you can redeem: Ask the retailer to put $149 on the capital one card, and the rest on something else.

I'd suggest doing this... I'm leery about letting points build up for too long since a) they are devalued over time by inflation, and b) they could be devalued by Capital One, just like TD is doing as mentioned upthread.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I read the TD official release on this topic this morning. The redemption value is only being lowered when you redeem your points outside Expedia (by calling in to the TD phone line). If you redeem through Expedia the value remains the same. Also, they are upping the travel medical insurance from 15 days to 21 days for those under 65, which is awesome.


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## Westerncanada (Nov 11, 2013)

Spudd said:


> I read the TD official release on this topic this morning. The redemption value is only being lowered when you redeem your points outside Expedia (by calling in to the TD phone line). If you redeem through Expedia the value remains the same. Also, they are upping the travel medical insurance from 15 days to 21 days for those under 65, which is awesome.




In my opinion.. still one of the best travel cards on the market.. especially if you are traveling for work and expense your travel.


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## daledegagne (Apr 6, 2015)

Am I the only one who collects points but doesn't put too much time or energy into it? 

I mean, I have a wife, kids, career, and extra "dale" stuff. The idea of trying to squeeze a few bucks out of rewards is exhausting. Plus, I understand why CC companies do this stuff, which doesn't exactly give me hope for humanity. 

So sure, I collect points, but I won't spend a whole lot of time researching it. That time is better spent earning money... or playing with my kids... or doing just about anything other than trying to jump hoops and squeeze blood from a stone.

Thoughts?

P.S. I guess it makes sense if your earning potential is capped - but I find people in that situation who take the time to apply a little psychology to their money management habits make drastic gains for the same effort.


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## DiazJenkins (Jun 30, 2015)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> I got tired of collecting points and jumping through hoops to redeem for flights as well. I gave up and have a couple of cash back cards now.


I also have the same problem.


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