# Ecogreen gasoline additive..worth it or snake oil?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

They started advertising (on the Weather channel) this "eco green" fuel additive that you pour a bit ( 4 oz?)in for every 60 litres of fuel and it's supposed to improve gas mileage, reduce emissions, reduce octane needed, save the environment, reduce engine maintenance, smoother starting, less wear on engine and transmission..blah!, blah! , blah!...
and increase power too!

http://richfuel.synthasite.com/more-information.php

Sounds too good to be true..at $20 a bottle + tax (CTC is selling it),
it seems like the miracle that the vehicle owners have waited for
all these years. Most of the fuel saving inventions (at least up to
now), either don't work as advertised, or very limited in their effectiveness
at saving fuel.

Has anybody tried this stuff?... and does it live up to it's advertising hype?

BTW..it's distributed by "Rich Fuel" out of the US...I guess they could
get rich selling this stuff..but will it help those (like me) with gas guzzlin V8's
actually save on fuel costs...

Lets see..ecogreen fuel saver at .$20+ 13%= 22.60 for 16 oz
bottle that is supposed to last for 3 months or 3000 miles (or whichever
comes first)...hmmm.they claim it can save fuel as much as 32%..on
my almost 84 litre tank..thats 28 litres..at 3$33.60, so if it were true,
I could still save $$ per tankful, if I dump the entire 4 oz of the 16 oz contents into the tank at each fillup (say 4 fillups per month..that's
336 litres. 32% of that about 105 litre saving..at $1.20 per litre 
well that's a whopping $126 that still in my pocket vs McGinty and the
oil tycoons pockets. 

Now..IF I stretch it out to 3 months, it's an unbelievable
$378 in fuel savings. If I buy 4 of these bottles to last me the entire year,
it's only $90 out of my pocket to save...wait for it!...$1512 in fuel costs!!!

Now where can you find an "investment" that brings in those returns in
terms of fuel savings?

But if it's just snake oil, for $22.60, I can still fillup with almost 19 litres of gas.

What say you?..automotive experts out there?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Probably a scam. Why don't you try it out and see what mileage you get for the benefit of mankind?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Probably a scam. Why don't you try it out and see what mileage you get for the benefit of mankind?


Ah!..yet another "Doubting Thomas". 

The marketing ads are very slick, but it's hard to believe in the results because... no matter what you do to the gasoline molecular structure,
its the stochiometric fuel-air ratio that decides on how much fuel is burned in a given instance in an internal combustion engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air–fuel_ratio

Here is the CTC version of it..costing more here in Canada.
http://ecofuelsaver.com/technology/howitworks.html

and their last claim to fame is....
"Saving the world - the byproduct of more efficient combustion is reduced emissions and fuel consumption. "

Don't you want to do your part in saving the world..Andrew?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Went to CTC for other things today and noticed that their ecogreen fuel saver additive was on the shelf for a whopping $29.99 for 450ml bottle!!!!

Somebody is making money off the suckers..er fuel frugal vehicle owners. 

On the instructions on the tiny font size label tells you specifically use it 
only on the next fillup* and don't skimp on the ratio* (30ml per 60 liters of gasoline) *or it won't work! * 

Nice of them to tell you that in the instructions (on the label) at least.
So they obviously had a run on the smaller size with the price reduction..they had 1 small little bottle (60ml) reduced from $5.99 to $3.77, and it was the only one left..

so Carverman thinks...hmmm..

at $3.77 it's a STILL a money wasting gamble , but my normally frugal mind can probably tolerate it if it's only..$3.77 + tax ($5.27), that not enough
to buy a cheap bottle of $7.75 wine at LCBO.. so what the hey! ..I'll forgo
the wine this time and treat my truck.. and I bought it. 

However, I can't just pour it in, because it has to be mixed with the gasoline as you fill your tank, so unlike gas line antifreeze, you can't just open the fuel
cap and pour it in..it may not mix properly that way and not be effective at all. 

So I got it inside the cab of my gas guzzlin' Dakota V8 which gives me about
(8.5km/liter highway and probably closer to 5km/liter in the city stop and go traffic). 

Thats roughly 34km (21.2 miles per US gallon highway)...it just sucks back the gas like it owned stocks in an oil well somewhere.

They say that the smaller bottle (60ml) treats 120 liters of fuel and the
mixture ratio is 1:120,000 . Seems hard to believe with that kind of dilution
that it actually does anything..but who knows.

So if this "magic elixer" helps for even a a 10% improvement in gas mileage, 
$33.90 including tax for a large container (450ml) will treat 9 tankfuls
on my truck. The tank holds roughly 22 US gals or roughly 88 litres if empty). 1 US gal = 3.8 litres, so 22 US gallons = 83.6 litres...well lets say.. 
88litres x 9 tankfuls = 792 litres of fuel...
that one 450 ml bottle of ecogreen fuel saver will treat. 

Assuming here as advertised, a 10% improvement on 792 liters = 79 liters of fuel saved?
at $1.20 per litre = $94.xx saved by not buying those 79 litres of fuel,
and buying ecogreen fuel saver instead at $30.00 + $13% = $33.90

So if my math is correct and this stuff actually does what it is supposed
to, by increasing kms travelled per litre of fuel burned in my big V8..

..it could still save me ..$60.00 over 792 liters (9 complete fillups).

since each fillup is approximately 80-84 liters of fuel, $60.00 divided by
9 tankfuls = $6.66 saving per 80-84 litre tankful (savings in additional mileage travelled on the same amount of fuel, BTW..)
or 
or roughly 8 cents a litre of "extra fuel mileage " .

At $1.20 a litre , a 10% saving in distance travelled on the same amount of
fuel is roughly 12 cents per litre .

So with the cost of the additive $33.60 with tax) at 10%, the savings (if
any) realized would be very small and because of the 13% tax added on
it costs even more. 

However, I will note my mileage now on 80litres and the next time I do
a 80 litre fillup, I will record the mileage on the vehicle and again after
I go for another 80 litre fillup after that.

If you don't do the math on a full tank and just top up 20 or 40 litres,
you really can't determine if this additive actually saves any money spent
on fuel vs mileage covered. 

I'll keep everyone posted on this thread in a few weeks when I finally
make an evalution..but I suspect it's not going to be "earth shattering news".


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I'll be honest.

I read your first paragraph and skipped everything else.

It's all BS. (my opinion only, of course )


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Okay, so I read a little bit. 

All I have to say is:

30ml treats 60L? LOL.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I'll be honest.
> 
> I read your first paragraph and skipped everything else.
> 
> It's all BS. (my opinion only, of course )


Well, I think it's a scam as well, and I want to prove it. 
If people truly are swayed by the advertising of this "greatest fuel saver
since the invention of sliced bread" on the Weather Channel and Canadian
Tire of all places..a trusted retail automotive store that Canadians have known to be trustworthy for many years...how can we NOT believe there is no Santa Claus?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

#1 MILEAGE BOOSTER - up to 32% better mpg's (20% testing average) *FALSE*
#1 PROFESSIONAL ECO-GREEN FUEL SYSTEM & INJECTOR CLEANER *Might be True*
#1 REDUCER OF HARMFUL EMISSIONS - Fight Pollution, Fight Global Warming! *FALSE*
INCREASE HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE UP TO 15% OR 50HP. *FALSE*
GREEN SEAL APPROVED - STOP HYDROCARBON EMISSIONS BY up to 50%. *FALSE*
SAFE ORGANIC BASED MINERAL PRODUCT - SAVE THE PLANET.
CONTAINS NO HARMFUL ALCOHOL, METHANOL, ETHANOL OR WATER. *Might be True*
Fuel will burn much longer and 99.9% CLEAN, while cleaning your entire internal engine systems. *FALSE*
You will see, feel and hear the difference in SMOOTHNESS, POWER & EFFICIENCY. *FALSE*
Your vehicle will breath, run and drive like new or better again. Start-up problems BE-GONE. *FALSE*
It will clean harmful carbon deposits and sulfuric buildup in the fuel system, combustion chamber, upper intake, valves, injectors and complete exhaust. *Might be True*
It will remove dangerous water and winter ice crystals from fuel, lines and injectors, extending engine life. *Might be True*


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

This one is my favourite:

INCREASE HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE UP TO 15% *OR* 50HP.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> This one is my favourite:
> 
> INCREASE HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE UP TO 15% *OR* 50HP.


Yes, all quantitive and measureable..especially by the unsuspecting sucker..er
consumer out there that believes everything they read or see on tv.

Remember the Slick 50 and Duralube ads on TV a few years ago.
On their TV ad (Duralube) I think, they actually claimed that after the oil additive
was added to the crankcase oil and the engine run for a while, (in a lab setting on tv), they could drain out ALL the oil and the engine would continue "humming along" without smoking, knocking etc, as the crankshaft bearings and connecting rods were "protected by this secret molecular compound film with Duralube.. that actually reduced metal to metal contact.

Would you as a car enthusiast want to try that on your import?

I don't think so! So in their case, it was an unsubstantiated claim..
those that bought it, while it didn't do any harm..did it actually do any good?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Lol. I wouldn't even try that in my lawn mower! 

And I don't even run synthetic oil in my car. Yet, my engine is a race engine with a turbo and I take it to the track all the time.

I know some people that only go to work and back 5km and never do more than 70km/hour and use Royal Purple LOL.

As you said, it can't hurt, but it definitely isn't doing anything better lol.

Lube is lube, y'know? Spit works just as good, too.  

(Was that too inappropriate?  )


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

carverman said:


> What say you?..automotive experts out there?


This isn't a question for automotive experts, it is one for chemists.

Re: environmental impact, you have to ask yourself this, where do the hydrocarbons go? Unless there is a chemical scrubber in-line, that physically removes the gases produced by combustion, what happens to it?

Lets say there was an additive that could reduce the volatile organic vapors emitted post-combustion, they would by necessity have to settle someone in your car. That seems like a bad thing.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I know some people that only go to work and back 5km and never do more than 70km/hour and use Royal Purple LOL.


Yes, "Royal Purple", that specially concocted oil with the fancy name
and packaging. Ok, but at least they take a good quality oil and add
some purple dye to it, so to make it special, so you want to shell
out a few more bucks for that little baby you are restoring, or whatever.

I used to watch "Two Guys Garage"..on one of the specialty channels,
because I still enjoy listening to DIY pros show us how to restore
those old clunkers and turn them into "investments". And they even
had some young babe go into technical explanations on how engines
and trannies should be put together..sheesh!..is nothing sacred these
days? 

Well maybe they can do it right, but most people don't have the resources they have for that TV show.

Anyhow..they were always plugging "Royal Purple" and how it could
add so much more life to your everyday ride.. ya sure! 



> Lube is lube, y'know? Spit works just as good, too.)
> 
> (Was that too inappropriate? )


Yas! I will have to report this to the powers that be...

Of course..in when I was in the army (reserves) we lived
by spit shines on our boots..and we would get warnings not
to eat fruit cakes and **** milk..if you *know* what I mean.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sampson said:


> This isn't a question for automotive experts, it is one for chemists.
> 
> Re: environmental impact, you have to ask yourself this, where do the hydrocarbons go? Unless there is a chemical scrubber in-line, that physically removes the gases produced by combustion, what happens to it?


They claim it reduces noxious emissions and therefore saving the environment.
hence the "green packaging" it comes in..and the "ecogreen" slick marketing. 



> Lets say there was an additive that could reduce the volatile organic vapors emitted post-combustion, *they would by necessity have to settle someone in your car*. That seems like a bad thing.


In an internal combustion engine..most of the unburned fuel and noxious
combustion gas byproducts are catalyzed (sp?) in the catalytic convertor.
That why there are O2 sensors (pre-cat and post-cat). In the cat there
is some kind of "platinum beads that binds? to the gases and forms some
kind of chemical reaction to reduce noxious emissions. 

http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/ss/how-it_catalyti.htm


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