# The US Economy Crumbling



## sags (May 15, 2010)

In a recent poll by Associated Press, 4 out of 5 Americans are now struggling to survive. They are unemployed, work in low income jobs, and rely on food stamps and other government programs. Globalized free trade is considered the cause.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100920976

As the US economy crumbles, President Obama's approval rating on the economy falls to 35%.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57598648/despite-focusing-on-the-economy-obamas-approval-slides/

Time to roll out some new corporate tax cuts, and increase other taxes to create jobs...........before the mid-term elections.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/obama-grand-bargain_n_3675512.html


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

4 out of 5 Americans are now struggling to survive....wow.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

What the very first sentence of the article you quoted says is:

_Four out of five U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare *for at least parts of their lives*, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream._

Not the same thing. 

From later on in the same article: 

_In 2011 that snapshot showed 12.6 percent of adults in their prime working-age years of 25-60 lived in poverty. But measured in terms of a person's lifetime risk, a much higher number — four in 10 adults — falls into poverty for at least a year of their lives._

And still later:

T_he gauge defines "economic insecurity" as a year or more of periodic joblessness, reliance on government aid such as food stamps or income below 150 percent of the poverty line._

The picture is actually quite different than 4/5 Americans are currently "poor." The measure they are using for "poverty" is not the official "poverty line." By those measures I absolutely fall into "economic insecurity" as I've both been jobless for more than a year and relied on "government aid" (CCTB).


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## houska (Feb 6, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> 4 out of 5 Americans are now struggling to survive....wow.


The article's headline is a bit misleading. The text of the article clarifies that it is actually saying not "now struggling to survive" but "have experienced a period of at least a year of struggling in their lives [before age 60]". That's not good, certainly, but not quite as bad.


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## houska (Feb 6, 2010)

I see MoneyGal and I were thinking and typing the same thing at the same time....
MoneyGal, I am now thinking about coffee and breakfast, hope you are too.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

And I even went back and edited my post while you were typing! I've already had coffee, breakfast is next. Good morning!!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

houska said:


> The text of the article clarifies.....


Most times, of course, but how many people bother to read and/or care to understand articles in full?

Propaganda by omission, and not just talking about the headline.

Breakfast was at 6 a.m.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Most times, of course, but how many people bother to read and/or care to understand articles in full?
> 
> Propaganda by omission, and not just talking about the headline.


Yup ... that's how the article claiming the cheapest bank account in Canada costs $2.50 a month. Trouble was, I had one of the two listed and had paid $0 for about four years. It took forty minutes to find the fine print at the end of about forty slides to see that "average use" profiles had been applied instead of the fees that could not be avoided. 

The journalist I pointed this out to pointed out that most people would fit the profile to try to ignore my comment it was misleading. When I didn't let that pass - the next comment was that the poor, overworked journalists didn't have time to read the full study before printing their article.

So as usual - articles are a good starting point but buyer beware.


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

This is terrible journalism. Even prima facie, the claim that 4 out of 5 Americans are poor is absurd. This seems like an Orwellian attempt to suggest that the economy is crumbling and that Americans are poor by defining 'poor' so broadly as to become meaningless.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

And the word 'survive' is silly. Being in a financial struggle doesn't mean you are near death.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

andrewf said:


> This is terrible journalism. Even prima facie, the claim that 4 out of 5 Americans are poor is absurd. This seems like an Orwellian attempt to suggest that the economy is crumbling and that Americans are poor by defining 'poor' so broadly as to become meaningless.


As a generalization, I have found the quality in journalism to be in decline, less fact checking. Less income for media outlets, especially print media, has translated into lower pay, which has translated into more junior less experienced writers in the print media. As said a genralization, there are some exceptional writers still out there too.

But a great example is some of the great minds that post here, whose knowledge I trust and respect far more than some of the financial journalists who are supposed to be in-the-know.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

The person who designs a poll can greatly influence the outcome simply by the wording, the sequence, and the manipulation of the questions. Political parties pay a great deal of money each year for polls-polls that are designed to further their cause.

Likewise, who would believe that they read in a $1. newspaper or hear on the TV news report? Take one story and you will get a very different version on CNN, FOX, CBC, etc. News in America has unfortunately not only become entertainment but is has also become grossly impartial-to the writer, the owner, or the editor.

If you are not certain, watch let's say a BBC news report on a subject. Then tune into the CNN or the Fox news and see how they report it or 'interpret' it.

The 'sky is falling' economic news and polls in the US are greatly influenced and FUNDED by the Republican Tea Party crowd and by organizations funded by them or sympathetic to them. This is not to say that there are challenges in the US economy and that economic activity is shifting because both are clearly true. It is just that there is a great deal of bogus reporting, slanted reporting, and news pieces 'crafted' to align with specific political interests.

It is just as bad in Canada since we have such a huge concentration of ownership and control of the media.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

fraser said:


> The 'sky is falling' economic news and polls in the US are greatly influenced and FUNDED by the Republican Tea Party crowd and by organizations funded by them or sympathetic to them. This is not to say that there are challenges in the US economy and that economic activity is shifting because both are clearly true. It is just that there is a great deal of bogus reporting, slanted reporting, and news pieces 'crafted' to align with specific political interests.


And yet...there is only one, (Fox), non-left leaning television US news outlet........and almost all the major US print media, (NYT, WaPo, etc), are also left leaning.

And...as to the BBC: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...BC-is-biased-toward-the-left-study-finds.html


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I am not in an way saying the BBC reporting is unbiased or accurate. I used it as a point of comparison between news outlets-especially for international news.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

People need to think when they read. 

The last time I was in US my 2 year old truck just fit in. I was at the same mall as they were. Dressed in the same manner. All the citizen were buying.

So now we need to look at the journalist axe, what benefit does he or his employer get from this garbage.

Is the US hurting YES


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Nemo2 said:


> And...as to the BBC:


But Nemo, this study is published by _The Telegraph_ :biggrin:

That's like the Tories conducting a "study" proving the NDP is left-biased (or vice versa).

IMHO, the truth is that most of us naturally gravitate towards news media that is closest to our own opinions, ideals, and prejudices.
Confirmation Bias, I believe it is known as.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

There's plenty of right wing papers in the US. The problem with FOX isn't that it's right wing, it's that it doesn't provide news. It's a conservative echo chamber. It's mostly pandering to people who want their own opinions repeated back to them. Not saying that the same thing does not exist for the left...


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

This is why I read The Economist .

I believe the next ten years are going to be a real serious challenge for the USA, why would they be immune to global issues ?
As I watch each year pass the amount of each tax dollar left over for new spending is dropping.
Seventy three cents of every tax dollar is spoken for.
Detroit is only the tip of the iceberg.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I like the Economist, too. It's the only newspaper I read consistently. I only watch satirical TV news shows (ie, Daily Show) because TV news is insipid (shallow, pointless, uninformative and boring).


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I only watch local news and read local papers, because at least they might have information that's relevant to my life. The only time I watch national or international news is during election coverage. The rest of the time it's pointless. I can usually pick up the main gist of events by browsing my homepage, but mostly it's all the same stuff being repeated ad nauseum.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

+2 for The Economist.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't think the us economy is crumbling!Record profits are being achieved like never before seen + huge investments being made(from what i read us is the place to be in the coming decade.As a stock holder of us corporations i am very comfortably holding and expect some years on some of my investments to be north of 8%)
The real problem is the wealth gap,corps are not passing it on to main street.It's the inequity of it all,fair or not.Lest that is the conclusion i read.Welcome to mexico or a usa,yeah usa.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I agree completely Donald and I have been increasing my US equity. The TSE has gone nowhere in comparison to the S&P. And if the CAD goes down a little the return will be enhanced. IMHO we are really seeing a fundamental change. Manufacturing jobs are coming back...but they are different kinds of jobs. That auto plant that may have employed 1000 people now has less than half...and many of them are high tech jobs involving robot technologies. Alas, portions of the current workforce become unemployed or re-employed in lower paying jobs.

It is happening in Canada. Just take a look at the transfer of wealth and jobs from manufacturing sectors in Ontario and Quebec to Western Canada, where we live. Many of those lost jobs will simply not come back in their previous form. We need even more government incentives in Canada directed towards capital improvements to increase efficiency and retraining programs. Institutions like NAIT, SAIT and other technical colleges are well ahead of the government in developing post secondary courses geared towards this new economy. Unfortunately, people are getting left behind in this transformation.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I find that watching the Lang and O'Leary Exchange and the second half hour of Canada AM gives me all the news that I need on a daily basis.

We are get the Metro newspaper delivered daily and that gives a little in-depth coverage but also lots of duplication.

I do watch Fox News occasionally to make sure I get an unfair and unbalanced view.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

kcowan said:


> I do watch Fox News occasionally to make sure I get an unfair and unbalanced view.


LOL...........it's amusing watching them try to spin everything to be Obama's fault.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

fraser said:


> I agree completely Donald and I have been increasing my US equity. The TSE has gone nowhere in comparison to the S&P. And if the CAD goes down a little the return will be enhanced. IMHO we are really seeing a fundamental change. Manufacturing jobs are coming back...but they are different kinds of jobs. That auto plant that may have employed 1000 people now has less than half...and many of them are high tech jobs involving robot technologies. Alas, portions of the current workforce become unemployed or re-employed in lower paying jobs.
> 
> It is happening in Canada. Just take a look at the transfer of wealth and jobs from manufacturing sectors in Ontario and Quebec to Western Canada, where we live. Many of those lost jobs will simply not come back in their previous form. We need even more government incentives in Canada directed towards capital improvements to increase efficiency and retraining programs. Institutions like NAIT, SAIT and other technical colleges are well ahead of the government in developing post secondary courses geared towards this new economy. Unfortunately, people are getting left behind in this transformation.


Maybe, but maybe you're chasing performance. The US is one of the most expensive markets in the world on a CAPE basis. Canada, Europe, etc. are much more reasonably valued.


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