# Foreign ATM withdrawals



## Plutos

Ever since Citibank closed its retail business in Canada, the options for cheap international withdrawals have been rather limited for Canadians (Citi used to charge $0.50 for an overseas ATM withdrawal and, if you used a Citi ATM, they didn’t charge you a 2.5% foreign exchange commission either). 

Do you guys know of any banks or Credit Unions that offer low fees for overseas ATM withdrawals?

From the research that I have done so far, these are the cheapest options available in Canada:

ING Thrive = $2 
PCF = $3
VanCity = $3
West Coast Capital = $4 
Most big banks = $5 (waived for RBC and TD customers who have $30 and $25-a-month banking packages respectively)

Does any of you know of a bank or a Credit Union that charges no fee (or smaller fee) for taking out money overseas?

Thanks for all of your responses.


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## mojo

*foreign withdrawal*

have same problem!!!


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## houska

If you qualify for HSBC Premier (>$100k that you can stick in their investing platform in ETFs for instance), then there is no transaction fee for withdrawing in internaltional HSBC ATMs. If you also open a US-domiciled account (which you can do easily), you get an ATM card on that acct that has no foreign ATM transaction fee anywhere and you save the forex commission too.

BTW, 2 things to still watch out for
a) ATMs that themselves charge you a fee - for instance, it's very hard to find an ATM in Thailand that will not itself charge a foreign card holder a 150 THB = $5 fee.
b) ATMs associated to currency exchanges, which after you key in your withdrawal will offer you in big letters that they will convert your withdrawal to your card's own currency at "fixed rates", which happen to be higher than anything your bank will charge you.


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## the-royal-mail

Sounds like a good case for buying the cash you need before you leave for your trip, when you have more options and can take your time and shop around. Either a bank or a foreign exchange should be able to help and presumably the fees would be much less. Those no-name ATMs, even on home soil, are a scam as far as I'm concerned. Consumers get nailed twice, once at the terminal and then later when your own bank charges you fee to your account.


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## kcowan

I used the Bancomat network for Euros in Italy. TD charges a $5 Plus exchange fee plus the usual FX but the ATMs provided the service for free.

In Mexico, the Plus fee is $3 and the banks also charge a user fee that varies from 19 to 29 pesos ($1.60 to $2.40) and I get 10000 pesos for about C$850 when the posted rates is around 12 and the cambios charge 11. Scotia provides free withdrawals at its ATMs (no 19 pesos) but still charges the other fees.

Transfers into my MP account cost $30 for $10000 and get about 12 fx while taking 13 days and depositing a Cdn$ check takes 18 days with no extra fee. Withdrawals from my MP account are free at the Bancomer ATMs.


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## Larry6417

Scotiabank is part of a Global ATM Alliance, which allows account holders to withdraw money without surcharges from participating institutions. In the U.S. one can withdraw from Bank of America machines, or BNP Paribas/ Barclays/ Deutsche Bank in Europe. I belive foreign exchange charges still apply. See www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID8040_LIDen,00.html


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## Pigzfly

I had an account with Citizen's bank (subsidiary of Vancity?), who had a no fee acct and no int'l ATM fees. Alas, it was too good to be true, they moved out of personal banking about a year ago.

The Royal Mail - I have been on many trips where there is NO WAY I am carrying sufficient cash for the trip. So, yes, you can save by taking as much as possible with you, but you cannot last a trip, nor would it be safe to carry that much cash!


FYI - In Argentina, many ATMs have a max dispensing limit of approx $300 CAN, which is really frustrating if you are paying for ATM fees! Uruguay has approximately the same withdrawal limit. Don't worry, there are about 6 withdrawal options higher than this and you can't use them, I tried.


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## Square Root

I had problems withdrawing cash from ATM's in Turkey. Some machines worked others did not. Fee was $5 charged by TD for those that worked. I think the rolling out of smart chip technology may be causing the issue.


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## Plutos

Sounds like ING Thrive ($2) and PCF ($3) are still the best "no strings attached" options.


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## canadien

Plutos said:


> Sounds like ING Thrive ($2) and PCF ($3) are still the best "no strings attached" options.


Don't limit yourselves to looking at the ATM/ABM withdrawl fee. There is also, most of the time a percentage administrative fee on the exchange rate with most Canadian banks.

So:

Withdrawing $300 CAD:

CIBC : cost $5 + 2.5% currency exchange fee = $5 + $7.50 = TOTAL COST $12.50
PC : cost $3 + 2.5% currency exchange fee = 3$ + $7.50 = TOTAL COST $10.50
ING : cost $2 + 0% currency exchange fee = $2 + $0 = TOTAL COST $2


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## Earth and Money

canadien said:


> Don't limit yourselves to looking at the ATM/ABM withdrawl fee. There is also, most of the time a percentage administrative fee on the exchange rate with most Canadian banks.
> 
> So:
> 
> Withdrawing $300 CAD:
> 
> CIBC : cost $5 + 2.5% currency exchange fee = $5 + $7.50 = TOTAL COST $12.50
> PC : cost $3 + 2.5% currency exchange fee = 3$ + $7.50 = TOTAL COST $10.50
> ING : cost $2 + 0% currency exchange fee = $2 + $0 = TOTAL COST $2


Does ING really not charge a currency exchange fee? Do you have a link to support that?
That is terrific news if its true - I paid almost $100 in bank fees the last time I went overseas for an extended trip. $5 per withdrawal plus currency exchange fees and many overseas ATMs limit how much you can withdraw at once to a few hundred dollars which can be very frustrating. I would definitely consider switching to ING prior to my next trip if that is the case.


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## brad

canadien said:


> Don't limit yourselves to looking at the ATM/ABM withdrawl fee. There is also, most of the time a percentage administrative fee on the exchange rate with most Canadian banks.


This comparison makes ING look great (which makes me happy because I have an ING Thrive account), but you might also have to compare the currency exchange rates across the different banks because they are unlikely to be identical. ING has a good exchange rate for US $ in general, but I'm not sure if that same exchange rate applies to ATM withdrawals or if they use a less favourable rate to effectively hide a fee and make them look more competitive. It's worth looking into.


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## kcowan

Also beware of charges for ATM use. Some banks don't charge but others and 3rd party operators do. In Mexico, it is 40 pesos or so to use any ATM unless your bank has a deal with the local bank.


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## brad

kcowan said:


> Also beware of charges for ATM use. Some banks don't charge but others and 3rd party operators do. In Mexico, it is 40 pesos or so to use any ATM unless your bank has a deal with the local bank.


Yes, and some of the third-part ATM machines in the US charge as much as $2 or $3 per use, so you have to add that on top of your bank's fee (so withdrawing via ING would be $4 to $5 per withdrawal if you add the ATM owner's fee in this case).


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## canadien

brad said:


> Yes, and some of the third-part ATM machines in the US charge as much as $2 or $3 per use, so you have to add that on top of your bank's fee (so withdrawing via ING would be $4 to $5 per withdrawal if you add the ATM owner's fee in this case).


Quite right, my comparison excludes what the local bank owning the atm might charge which varies across the world (lets say 4$ like in Argentina for comparison's sake) : 

so including local charges for a $300 CAD withdrawl:

CIBC : 5 + 7.50 + 4 = 16.50
PC : 3 + 7.50 + 4 = 14.50
ING : 2 + 0.00 + 4 = 5.00


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## canadien

brad said:


> This comparison makes ING look great (which makes me happy because I have an ING Thrive account), but you might also have to compare the currency exchange rates across the different banks because they are unlikely to be identical. ING has a good exchange rate for US $ in general, but I'm not sure if that same exchange rate applies to ATM withdrawals or if they use a less favourable rate to effectively hide a fee and make them look more competitive. It's worth looking into.


Excellent point. 
That's one thing that, although I would like too verify, would be to complicated a process for me to do.
I might do a limited test with CIBC and ING . 
If I do, I shall get back to you.


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## OhGreatGuru

I think RBC is same as CIBC outside Canada & US ($5 + currency exchange fee of 2.5% - using a Plus Sytem ATM). $3 + currency exchange fee for US.

Of course you are going to pay some kind of premium for currency exchange almost anywhere; and you get charged a fee for cashing or paying with Traveler's cheques in most places outside Canada/US. (PS. I don't see how ING can afford to exchange currency at 0 markup unless they are fiddling with the "Benchmark rate" and using a higher rate than the other banks.) You have to weigh the convenience against the cost. RBC's credit cards charge the same 2.5% markup, so you can save on the transaction fee by charging, but not the currency conversion. But that doesn't help with cash withdrawals.


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## OhGreatGuru

_ING CardHolder Agreement:
A Permitted Transaction in a foreign currency will be converted to the currency of your Account *at an exchange rate determined by ING DIRECT* on the date the Permitted Transaction is processed. This rate may differ from the rate in effect on the date of the Permitted Transaction.

RBC Card Holder Agreement:
Foreign Currency Conversion of Cash Withdrawals Made at ATMs Outside Canada
Each account cash withdrawal from a Canadian dollar account you make at an ATM outside Canada displaying the PLUS System Symbol, and any fees that may be imposed by any third party for using the ATM, are converted to Canadian dollars
no later than the date we post the transaction to your account *at our exchange rate that is 2.5% over a benchmark rate set by Visa International*, a subsidiary of Visa Inc., and which Royal Bank of Canada pays on the date of conversion._

So, does anybody know if there is a difference between these two exchange rates? Anyone want to volunteer to make identical withdrawals from ING and a Bricks-and-Mortar bank on their next trip abroad to see?


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## canadien

OhGreatGuru said:


> _ING CardHolder Agreement:
> A Permitted Transaction in a foreign currency will be converted to the currency of your Account *at an exchange rate determined by ING DIRECT* on the date the Permitted Transaction is processed. This rate may differ from the rate in effect on the date of the Permitted Transaction.
> 
> RBC Card Holder Agreement:
> Foreign Currency Conversion of Cash Withdrawals Made at ATMs Outside Canada
> Each account cash withdrawal from a Canadian dollar account you make at an ATM outside Canada displaying the PLUS System Symbol, and any fees that may be imposed by any third party for using the ATM, are converted to Canadian dollars
> no later than the date we post the transaction to your account *at our exchange rate that is 2.5% over a benchmark rate set by Visa International*, a subsidiary of Visa Inc., and which Royal Bank of Canada pays on the date of conversion._
> 
> So, does anybody know if there is a difference between these two exchange rates? Anyone want to volunteer to make identical withdrawals from ING and a Bricks-and-Mortar bank on their next trip abroad to see?


Would love to see the results of such a test.


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## m3s

OhGreatGuru said:


> So, does anybody know if there is a difference between these two exchange rates? Anyone want to volunteer to make identical withdrawals from ING and a Bricks-and-Mortar bank on their next trip abroad to see?


I can withdraw €20 from Thrive and €20 from TD Select tomorrow and see what happens. I have withdrawn €'s all over Europe from a German account and the fee has always been a standard €3.50 (~$4.5) If I use the Maestro card the fee is €0.40 per transaction but it's still impossible to survive without cash in many places. The Swiss will accept Euros with at least a 5% markup. ME and Turkey are happy to accept €'s at a fair rate but they charge foreigner a markup anyways. Best option is to carry cash across the border with you and exchange it where the locals do


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## kcowan

OhGreatGuru said:


> I think RBC is same as CIBC outside Canada & US ($5 + currency exchange fee of 2.5% - using a Plus Sytem ATM). $3 + currency exchange fee for US.


US and Mexico.


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## OhGreatGuru

kcowan said:


> US and Mexico.



They don't include Mexico on their web site.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/products/deposits/banking-compare.html


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## m3s

OhGreatGuru said:


> Anyone want to volunteer to make identical withdrawals from ING and a Bricks-and-Mortar bank on their next trip abroad to see?


Results are in


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## m3s

Select Service preferred rates my a$$... almost *0.8%* higher spread than *free* ING THRiVE. Meanwhile my ING cash earns *1.35%* and my $5380 earns zip


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## kcowan

OhGreatGuru said:


> They don't include Mexico on their web site.
> http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/products/deposits/banking-compare.html


I can only vouch for TD charging $3 Plus fee in Mexico. I assumed that every Cdn bank would get the same fee for Plus transactions.


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## Earth and Money

mode3sour said:


> Select Service preferred rates my a$$... almost *0.8%* higher spread than *free* ING THRiVE. Meanwhile my ING cash earns *1.35%* and my $5380 earns zip


Is that $2.00 ING fee associated with the withdrawal? If so, at the end of the day, you're still ahead with TD.


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## Spudd

TD doesn't do their fee-charging until the end of the month. With Select Service there is no fee for overseas withdrawals.


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## m3s

The OP was correct here



Plutos said:


> From the research that I have done so far, these are the cheapest options available in Canada:
> 
> ING Thrive = $2
> PCF = $3
> VanCity = $3
> West Coast Capital = $4
> Most big banks = $5 (waived for RBC and TD customers who have $30 and $25-a-month banking packages respectively)





Earth and Money said:


> Is that $2.00 ING fee associated with the withdrawal? If so, at the end of the day, you're still ahead with TD.


Depends... 1% of $1000 withdrawn on vacation would cost you $10 more in exchange. That $2 fee in ING's free savings account is less than half of what the big banks typically charge in paid accounts ($5) I have TD Select Service which does wave the fee for $29.95 per month or a constant $5000 balance that earns 0%. That $5400 could be earning me 5% in dividends, plus compound growth over time tax free if I had more room in a TFSA/RRSP. You'd have to do a lot of foreign withdrawals to make it worth it, not to mention the sneaky hidden exchange rate rip offs. Select service does get you a "preferred rate" off their typical hiked rates when you exchange money in person, but I've found better elsewhere, and it appears they neglect this preferred rate at the ATMs


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## Earth and Money

True, but if you're only traveling for a few weeks at a time, you can always switch your banking plan over to the Select plan for the month that you are travelling, then switch it back to the regular plan when you're not travelling. There's no sense in keeping it year round to take advantage of something you might use for one period in a year.

If anyone is interested, I was motivated by this thread to run a comparison of all the fees across all the major Canadian banks...
http://www.earthandmoney.ca/comparison-foreign-atm-fees-canadian-banks/


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## kcowan

Earth
The $3 fee applies to the US and Mexico.


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