# MBA - no longer as valuable?



## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

This weekend I was discussing MBA's with someone who is in senior management in a competitive industry and I was surprised to hear them say that MBA's are no longer as valuable as they were a few years ago. 

It's something I'm considering so I'd be interesting in hearing others' thoughts on this.


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

I'd agree with him...in the the past a master's degree was something obtained after years in the real world working the jobs..now people are persueing their masters before they even work for any length of time.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

i have one and I think it helped me a lot in my career. Obviously your other attributes will be more important but I always thought it could never hurt to have a good education. Got mine while working full time. It was tough but worth it.


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## sharbit (Apr 26, 2012)

One of the reasons I started learning finance was to save for getting an MBA. I have enough to go now, however with a 80k price tag I'm not sure.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I think sinking 80k into a business teaches me more.


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## K-133 (Apr 30, 2010)

Causalien said:


> I think sinking 80k into a business teaches me more.


Depends what you're goal is and how you plan to apply your learnings.

The MBA is very devalued due to the quantity of schools and students earning them. The same is said about the 'simple' Bachelor's degree when compared to 30 years ago. But this is also a matter of perspective as this is an overall reflection of the improvement of our society rather than the actual value of what you learn.

Check out the book Managers Not MBAs by Mitzberg for a one sided opinion but with a point that will help you get the most out of such education. My own opinion would be in the middle of his and the rhetoric which the business, oops I mean schools will tell you. Overall, I believe if you have the appropriate experience an MB can provide you with a great boost in your career. Which is probably the greatest issue in my opinion with Master's programs today; lack of real world experience brought into the classroom by the students.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I have one and most of a second graduate degree, and many if not most of the people I work with have MBAs. That said, I would not advise someone who wants to work in finance (my field) to get an MBA, and here's why: 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/...hool-and-me-crushing-them/?utm_source=sidebar

I know that blog post is about graduate degrees in the humanities, not MBAs, and I know the author is American. But her reasons 4 and 6 are the reasons I would give. If you want an MBA, wait until you are older (assuming the "Young" in "Young and Amibitious" is accurate) and have someone else - i.e., your company - pay for it. You'll get more out of it and it will cost you less in many many ways.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

What we don't know and would be relevant to your situation is what degrees do you have now? And what job & pay range do you currently have?

Going for a MBA might help get you in the door or to a better position, but if your already in then your work experience / job performance will help you more. It is not uncommon to find people with a MBA reporting to people with out one but with more experience.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If you work for yourself, an MBA is just a piece of paper...you either know how to run a company or you don't. If you want a job, an MBA used to be good, but is now turning into an excuse to not hire you because you are "overqualified", and there are cheaper people out there.

I'm not against an education, but there is sometimes a big difference between education and reality as well. I know many MBAs who thought they knew how to run businesses just because they had a piece of paper, but no experience. Turns out they were wrong...

Education, like employment, should be done because it's of interest to you. You're going to spend a lot of resources on it, so you'd better enjoy it...life's too short otherwise.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Perhaps they have watched too many MBAs run solid businesses into the ground. Perhaps they are realizing that you can't run any business with an MBA, that having knowledge of that particular business is important too?

Nah, what's wrong with running a good business into the ground as long as you can make a fat profit by tearing it apart and selling it for scrap?


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Rusty: boy you really seem angry about everything? 
$80k for an MBA is a lot, I doubt I would have gotten one if they cost that much 40 years ago. Maybe an accounting degree alon with a CFA would work just as well and be a better deal?


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Square Root you mentioned your MBA was helpful to you, would you be comfortable sharing your industry or position?

There are MBA's from reputable schools are in the $50k dollar range Sharbit. 

I likely will not pursue one, but I did find the initial comment interesting. The points made about how many more people get it now compared to before and the "experience vs. education" points are valid. For me in my industry it's not essential but a nice-to-have IMO (public companies).


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

Did my MBA right after my undergrad (chemistry). Finished my MBA in 2006 while working at an a bank and an Ontario utility. Made ~$75k. Left the utility for four years and made $85-110k plus bonuses (10%-15% or so). Now at a power company in Alberta making ~$135 plus ~40% in other comp (stock and bonuses). All my experience has been in banking and the power sector.

Would I be in my position without an MBA? Probably not. But the MBA doesn't mean as much now to me as my future compensation growth will be based on experience and performance.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

I was at an accounting firm when I got my MBA. The idea was it would help me move out into industry in a good position. Ended up joining a big bank and at retirement was a senior exec in the finance function. Got my CA just before the MBA and it probably was more practical


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Ah Square Root you are apparently the perfect person then to speak with! I'm close to getting an accounting designation so I'm at the point of thinking ahead of what to do when my studies are done - continue studying or spend lots of time and money with an expensive hobby. I'm certainly in a career path where I can make good money, but an MBA could kick that up a notch and speed up that timeline, or so I was thinking.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Y&A I got a BA, CA, and MBA within a 10 year period of part time study in my 20's. If you have the stomach to continue with your education I would say go for it. You will be less likely to so so as you age and progress in your career. I guess I was a little insecure so I wanted to always have the best education in the room. Don't think it hurt.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

I've thought about it, just to change things up as I am getting bored of my career so far in engineering. One reason that I am hesitant of pursuing it is that it's impossible to determine whether there will be an adequate ROI. For every good story there are a few bad stories, or so it seems. It does seem like it is decreasing in value.


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## sharbit (Apr 26, 2012)

Young&Ambitious said:


> There are MBA's from reputable schools are in the $50k dollar range Sharbit.


You're correct, tuition is arround 50k. However, theres also cost to being unemployed for about a year and a half. Thats why I say 80k.

I make about 100k plus 20k in business income / yr so I wonder if it's worth it. I really find the MBA breadth of knowledge interesting but my income would definitly drop at first. There's also the hit to savings.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Sharbit, I know for myself I would not do full-time due to the loss of income, however there are part-time MBA's with evening/weekend classes outside of typical business hours.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> I have one and most of a second graduate degree, and many if not most of the people I work with have MBAs. That said, I would not advise someone who wants to work in finance (my field) to get an MBA, and here's why:
> 
> http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/...hool-and-me-crushing-them/?utm_source=sidebar
> 
> I know that blog post is about graduate degrees in the humanities, not MBAs, and I know the author is American. But her reasons 4 and 6 are the reasons I would give. If you want an MBA, wait until you are older (assuming the "Young" in "Young and Amibitious" is accurate) and have someone else - i.e., your company - pay for it. You'll get more out of it and it will cost you less in many many ways.


Hi MoneyGal, I checked out the article. Point is semi-relevant as it is not required in my field, but if I want to advance to senior positions I think there could be a benefit. However, there are many individuals in senior management who do not hold MBA's as we all know so it is not essential. If I did it I would be looking for a company to fund it as it is very expensive.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

I am a recent MBA grad. I am also a senior manager with a publicly trade company and had been promoted steadily every two to three years. The MBA was essential to my last promotion from VP to RVP, and any future promotion(s). In essences, I had risen as high as I was going with out some letters after my name and it didn't matter what school it came from, it was the fact that I did the work and got the degree. It's old school to think, well the guy I will replace doesn't have a degree,so I don't need one. Modern Boards look at these things, so I guest its a matter of "high is up"?

Now I say things like "we have a skills gap in our younger managers" or "we have a delta between our YTD and budget figures". But the #1 thing I learned . . . how to play the game at the next level !


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

From my limited experience, it seems that the MBA most benefits those with an unrelated undergrad. A good number of the guys at my firm have an engineering degree/biology/biotech/computer science etc. matched with an MBA. The guys who have done business undergrads generally go with either a CA or CFA or both. 

The MBA seems good for networking but doesn't give you much knowledge beyond what a business undergrad provides. The MBA is no magical pill, and is definitely less valuable than it was before (all the older guys seem to have Queen's or Ivey MBA's) but the alumni network can really help you out down the road. Personally, I think the cost of an MBA is insane, and unless someone else is paying, likely not worth it.


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## snowbird (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm in the same boat - I was planning on starting a part-time MBA next year and my employer was going to pay half. However, i do question its worth even with me paying half (~35K). I am still debating it but I think at some point to move any higher up, i would need to do it BUT i will be getting it while working and with some employer financial support.


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## sharbit (Apr 26, 2012)

Young&Ambitious said:


> part-time MBA's with evening/weekend classes outside of typical business hours.


So an important question, what type of job do you hope to get when you complete your MBA?


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

i would say if your employer is willing to pay some of the cost and also provide some time off to complete the part time program, you should do it. They would be displaying confidence in you by doing this and giving you an indication they view the expense as worth it. How much more encouragement would you need? Don't use the excuse " I would be XX years old when I finish...." because you will be XX years old at that point anyway without the degree. I don't think I have ever heard an MBA grad (or any grad for that matter) ever say " I am sorry I did that"


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

sharbit said:


> So an important question, what type of job do you hope to get when you complete your MBA?


Me long-term I'll be looking to be a CFO/Treasurer/Controller/VP Finance, something along those lines. An MBA may fast-track my route there.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think you would be crazy not to pursue a mba.Here is a quote that sums it up-It's not capital that your senior's require it is the man who knows/has(enter a mba) business habits(what you will learn) which create capital.Im sure your roi on a mba is going to be better than any investment your ever going to make.

I wish i could turn back the clock and get one(i did'nt get the chance).Seems like a no brianer.esp for a cfo/controller ect-you prob would'nt get to that level without one?.(esp public firm)


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

My back and forth is because of a number of complicating factors such as: I'm looking to have 3-4 kids beginning in ~5 years at which point I'd want to work part-time and work my way back to full-time, boyfriend is one a group that has started a new business with potential, my sport of choice is very expensive, I live in Vancouver which is very expensive, would an MBA only lead to positions that are "live to work", would have to change employers, suitable jobs would be located downtown (congestion and more expensive housing), etc etc. 

So we shall see...I have time on my side thankfully and I appreciate all the different insights and perspectives.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

My impression from friends/acquaintances who got MBAs is that the benefit depended a lot on the person getting the degree.

Someone who is ambitious, "management type", wants to to make more money and is willing to work for it in the appropriate jobs will likely get more return on investment from an MBA compared to a quieter type who likes being left alone in his cubicle to program all day.

From your last post, the MBA might have limited potential for you if you are planning to slow-track for a while. On the other hand, if you plan to get back in the race later on - it would be good to have the MBA at that time. I'm sure it's easier to get an MBA before having kids.

I'm curious about your 'expensive' sport? Auto racing?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Planning to have 4 babies over the next 10 yrs seems even more ambitious.(and the cost)Would'nt that throw a wrench into your entire plan?(i don't have any kids-early 30's-so m.o is not worth much)but i do have many friends that have(2 that have 3 kid's)I don't know your plan going foward with your partner is(none of my business @ all)But judging by observation and conversations,That's going to be a way tougher road(ie impossiable even?)--your life will likely do a 360-would'nt you want to wait until @least after 30 to consider children?If the business world is where you want to be.The 2 choices seem at odds with each other(esp 4 kids,and your timeline- all happening in your 20's? im guessing)


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Autoracing would be fun! For me it's horseback riding.

Yes kids are also expensive... I have a lot of dreams all which don't come cheap even if they aren't atypical or far-out (I'm okay without a yacht, really!!). 

Sigh, if I can't find a money tree I guess the next best thing is a wealthy billionaire or an MBA :rolleyes2:


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