# Best credit card for globe trotting?



## BBB (Jun 13, 2011)

Hello all,

I'm considering a 12 month trip to various parts of the world (New Zealand, Austraia, Nepal, Europe) and was wondering what's the best way to access my money to pay for stuff and get cash out?


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## rford (Aug 16, 2014)

the way i do it is with a tangerine account hooked up to their international network (scotiabank global alliance). can withdraw from us savings account. 

http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/1,,8093,00.html


then supplement with amazon visa no FX fee card. 

would like to hear other (better) options as well..


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## livingthedream (Apr 28, 2014)

100% agree with the Amazon Visa credit card.


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## BBB (Jun 13, 2011)

Appreciate the info, I will look into it.

Anyone have an opinion on this card? http://www.bmo.com/main/personal/credit-cards/prepaid-credit-cards
Pay a yearly fee of $7 then you put money on it and use it for purchases. Exchange rate is rate + 2.5%.

The zero foreign currency transaction fee is ideal for the Amazon card. Thanks for th heads up.


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## Money We Have (Mar 20, 2014)

rford said:


> then supplement with amazon visa no FX fee card.


I use that card whenever I travel outside of Canada. My go to card for travel, of course I'm also no traveling for 12 months at a time.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Wait,this Amazon card has no FX fee? So they're not charging the 2.5% to 3.0% above spot market rate for US dollars?

I'm living in the US and I can't obtain a credit card here. I have a decent US credit score but they won't give me a card because I'm a temporary, not permanent resident.

So I'm wondering which canadian card would suit me best, for heavy US dollar use. Are there any cards in Canada that allow pure US dollar charges and payments (no CAD conversion at all), for no annual fee?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

The Amazon card is in CAD, but they don't charge the 2.5% FX rate, no annual fee. And 1% cash back to spend at Amazon.ca.


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## Silverbird (Mar 5, 2013)

Spudd said:


> The Amazon card is in CAD, but they don't charge the 2.5% FX rate, no annual fee. And 1% cash back to spend at Amazon.ca.


Just to clarify, the 1% cash back is not limited to Amazon.ca spend, when it hits $20, it is automatically applied as a statement credit.

Like others have said, my go-to card as well for any purchase not in $CAD.

Not sure about that prepaid credit card plan. Technically any credit card can be a prepaid one (if you are concerned with paying a bill on an extended leave) just pay the bill in advance from your bank account.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh, my bad. For some reason I had it in my head that the cash-back was only for Amazon. Good news that it's not!


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Happy with the Amazon Visa card - no Forex charges, no annual fee, 1% cash back. My son has been using it in Australia for the last month. I have a TD USD Visa for the US but if the Amazon card had been available years ago I would likely just have gone with that. 9/11 made cross border banking and especially getting a US bank Visa card much tougher for those without a full time address in the US. @james4beach - I would have thought you would have qualified for a US bank Visa card if you have a permanent US address - even if renting.


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## rford (Aug 16, 2014)

there is also the chase marriott rewards card that is no forex, but has an $89 annual charge. you get one free stay though every year at select marriotts. i think you can do aeroplan on it as well? another option if you use it enough and can justify the 89 annual.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

uptoolate said:


> @james4beach - I would have thought you would have qualified for a US bank Visa card if you have a permanent US address - even if renting.


"Permanent" is a loaded word. To US Customs and Immigration, "permanent resident" has a particular meaning and _requires_ a Green Card. Since I'm on a TN status = nonimmigrant status, this clearly means: non-permanent resident. If I checked the box and said I was a permanent resident, they would surely grant me the credit. But I am being very cautious to give the right answers, because the USA is very punitive towards us "aliens" and many of these bank forms remind us that these claims are made under penalty of perjury. I believe there are penalties including jail time for lying.

So I'm cautious. I have residency in Canada and tons of Canadian credit, so I don't particularly need this and there's no reason to risk jail time or deportation.

There are many people in my situation who simply go around saying they are permanent residents, because it makes life easier. (Same in Canada obviously, for people visiting). Just having an apartment or even a house does not make you a "permanent resident" by the immigration definition.

What's frustrating to me is that even border officials, for instance, don't fully understand these terms. But of course the problem is that if someone in the government decides to nail you on it, then you'd better make sure you're not misrepresenting yourself... no matter what border officials or bankers say, because they often don't know how this works.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This isn't specific to the US. Here's the Canadian immigration page on "permanent resident"
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp

It's pretty clear. Temporary visitors, like students or foreign workers are not permanent residents. But in Canada, just like in the US, we will have people (like foreign students) misrepresent themselves and call themselves permanent residents, and on the basis of this they may even get loans.

Again, it usually won't matter, unless somehow you get nailed on it.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

James, yes, it is prude t not to lie in your credit application.

The way to get around this problem is to go to Bank Of America and sign up for the prepaid credit card that people with bad or no history uses to rebuild credit. I forgot the name. There's a monthly fee and you need to use it for 12 months. Then you can upgrade to a normal credit card and build your credit history.

BOA is the only bank left that allows this type of credit building. The other banks have all clamped down on the practice This was year 2012~2013 SO I am not sure if this still works today.

In any case ask any illegal mexicans how to get a credit card nowadays if the above fails.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It's not just BoA. From another major US bank, I already got a secured CC months ago. Like I said, I already have established US credit -- I've seen the credit bureau report, it's all good. The problem is the residency requirement... credit history/score is already there.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Yes frustrating. I thought that the threshold used to be having a permanent address - so one could show a bill to prove proof of residency and not that one had to be a permanent resident in the INS sense of the word. I seem to remember discussion on this or perhaps another forum in which this was the standard to which applications were held. May be recollecting incorrectly and of course this is a moving target so things may have changed or as you say, some folks may be more creative with the truth. Homeland security has certainly changed things from the days where we used to walk over the bridges with no ID!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Well I don't know about all banks, but the big one I checked with so far definitely means permanent resident in the immigration sense. I'll try a credit union and other issuers.

I called Wells Fargo this morning and they said that immigration status is one factor but is not an automatic rejection. Instead, they said credit score and banking relationship is still considered. So for example a very high credit score may succeed despite not being an immigrant/green card holder.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

James4B, it takes a while to build up enough credit history in the US to get an unsecured credit card with any sort of respectable credit limit.
You have been there for - what - 8 to 10 months now?
It will take at least 2 years to get an unsecured credit card with a decent enough limit to allow you to finance your living expenses and not have to keep making payments mid-month.

Keep in mind that a very important factor in the FICO score is the duration of a credit record itself.
You may be an excellent money manager, but if your record is only 3 months old, you will be considered a higher risk than someone with a more modest payment history but with a record dating back many years.

One other important thing - in the US, your home ownership/mortgage is part of the credit report.
This has always been the case, even before the financial crisis.
Lenders consider home owners a better credit risk than renters, even to this day.
Someone with a $200K mortgage is a better credit risk than a renter with no debt "drifting" from apartment to apartment every few months.

Anyway, the point is that there are many factors, and the duration of the record is an important factor.

Among all the major banks, American Express does give you higher "brownie points" when you move cross-border.
If you had a CC with AmEx in Canada, you can get an unsecured card in the US with a relatively reasonable limit (although perhaps lower than what you had in Canada).
This used to be the case many years ago - not sure if AmEx still extend the same policy for cross-border movers.

Long story short, you have to be patient.
Use that secured card as much as you can, and keep making mid-month payments.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Been all over the world myself and each time I use my CIBC Visa for purchases and for cash from ATM we used our TD Bank Card ,this worked for us in North and South Africa ,all over Europe and Caribbean , just be sure to call them and tell them the dates you are traveling and countries.


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## GreenHouse512 (Oct 22, 2014)

In my opinion its best to be in touch with the customer staff of the credit card and tell them the information about you visit and traveling details in the countries. 



marina628 said:


> Been all over the world myself and each time I use my CIBC Visa for purchases and for cash from ATM we used our TD Bank Card ,this worked for us in North and South Africa ,all over Europe and Caribbean , just be sure to call them and tell them the dates you are traveling and countries.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Harold, I think you're right. Yes I've been here barely 10 months.

If it takes 2 years to be able to obtain unsecured credit, there's kind of no point... I may be back in Canada by 3 yrs or so. Maybe I should just obtain a Canadian based US dollar card.

Are there any USD cards in Canada that don't have an annual fee? All the big banks I checked have annual fees for their USD cards


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Harold, I think you're right. Yes I've been here barely 10 months.
> 
> If it takes 2 years to be able to obtain unsecured credit, there's kind of no point... I may be back in Canada by 3 yrs or so. Maybe I should just obtain a Canadian based US dollar card.
> 
> Are there any USD cards in Canada that don't have an annual fee? All the big banks I checked have annual fees for their USD cards


BMO refunds the fee if you charge more than $1,000 on the card per year.

http://www.bmo.com/main/personal/credit-cards/us-dollar-mastercard


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Are there any USD cards in Canada that don't have an annual fee? All the big banks I checked have annual fees for their USD cards


I believe TD has one.
Fees are waived if you have large enough business with them (savings accounts, TDDI brokerage accounts, etc.)
Some of the regular TD customers here should be able to answer this question - marina628, humble_pie, etc.

Also, check CanadianCapitalist's blog site...I believe he did a article about this a while back.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I would go ahead and get it if you are in the states for 3 years. It means the next time you need to go it gets easier. Plus it is one step closer to get the chase sapphire, which is the best card. Then with a us based cc, you can start manufactured spending etc.

Anyway, once you have a good credit score, good enough for unsecured card, you can then. lease cars at a better rate. They were trying to lease me a crap car for $500 a month because I had no history.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We cancelled our CIBC US VIsa card. No reason to pay for it and it had zero benefits.

We now use a Chase Visa. We have used it in Europe for the past six weeks and have saved a considerable amount on admin charges that we would have otherwise incurred on our CIBC Visa card. And we use it for US purchases.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> I believe TD has one.
> Fees are waived if you have large enough business with them (savings accounts, TDDI brokerage accounts, etc.)
> Some of the regular TD customers here should be able to answer this question - marina628, humble_pie, etc.


It seems TD has a cross-border banking package

The web page says they waive fees if you maintain $3,000 USD minimum balance. That's a pretty high bar, not sure I can do that.

I do indeed have lots of business with TD. Others: is there another fee waiver besides this cross-border one? I don't think I could achieve the 3k minimum balance


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## westcoastgal (Oct 25, 2014)

james4beach said:


> It's not just BoA. From another major US bank, I already got a secured CC months ago. Like I said, I already have established US credit -- I've seen the credit bureau report, it's all good. The problem is the residency requirement... credit history/score is already there.



RBC allows you to open up a US bank account and get one of their Stateside credit cards like the Signature Black Visa with no fees and great benefits and insurance using your Canadian credit. It's good for snowbirds, travellers to the US and students in the US, etc., I have one and it was super easy. It even links to your Canadian bank account so you so can see your US bank account and credit card statements and trx, transfer back and forth and pay your cards.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Amazon Visa card -- does this include any kind of insurance, like rental car insurance? I couldn't find any mention on their web site for insurances


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I originally applied for the Chase Amazon card. It got approved and it was sent to me....with a $5K credit limit.

Then I realized that the Chase Marriott card was a better deal for us. So, I applied and was approved.

Same bank, same Visa card, identical application form and the same responses. But the Marriott came back with a $14K credit limit...which is what we wanted.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

james4beach said:


> It seems TD has a cross-border banking package
> 
> The web page says they waive fees if you maintain $3,000 USD minimum balance. That's a pretty high bar, not sure I can do that.
> 
> I do indeed have lots of business with TD. Others: is there another fee waiver besides this cross-border one? I don't think I could achieve the 3k minimum balance


Reminder to people that the borderless plan does not equal to a USA bank account.

What borderless plan do for you is that you get their preferential exchange rate. For example, withdrawing using my bank card gives me the equivalent exchange rate of my credit card while having no "handling" fee or atm fee. So the choice between using cash or credit is now just a convenience choice.

However, if I want to deposit usd into my bank of america or chase bank account, I cannot do it with just a borderless account if I am not at the branch in person. (travelling and need to op up some acct in USA)

For that to happen, you need to open a bank acct with usa part of TD and have them somehow link it together. The actual wire transfer will then happen from Td cad to TD usa and then to BAC or Chase


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

As well with the TD package, even if you open an account at TD Bank America you cannot get a US-based credit card. You do get a Debit card which you can withdraw from US banks and use online and at merchants but the lack of a credit card makes this option much less attractive.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

True it won't be a US domiciled credit card. In my situation I'm interested in this because income flows in as USD so it makes sense to pay expenses in USD.

Regarding wire transfers... personally I've been using cheques. Sending money from US to Canada, I write a big fat cheque drawn on my US bank. Then I either walk it into a branch next time I'm in Canada, or send it by mail to the branch (along with instructions to deposit to my account). This has been a smooth, low cost way to transfer money.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Amazon Visa card -- does this include any kind of insurance, like rental car insurance? I couldn't find any mention on their web site for insurances


If no mention than they don't have.... I think the only credit card that offers CDW car insurance and doesn't have annual fees is TD Gold select Visa, but it doesn't have any other benefits like rebate... so I use it ONLY for car rentals abroad


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm a happy user of the Amazon visa. It's a great card. Just be sure to pay it in full each month or whenever you make a cash withdrawal on it to keep the interest at bay.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

gibor said:


> If no mention than they don't have.... I think the only credit card that offers CDW car insurance and doesn't have annual fees is TD Gold select Visa, but it doesn't have any other benefits like rebate... so I use it ONLY for car rentals abroad


The RBC Rewards Visa Gold offers the CDW insurance on rentals and is no Annual fee.

http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/credit-...old.html?_ga=1.236282761.926910189.1408585285


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The TD US visa also has various insurances including rental car CDW. It's listed under Automotive Features on their page.

That feature alone is worth around $300 a year to me  Seriously.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> James4B, it takes a while to build up enough credit history in the US to get an unsecured credit card with any sort of respectable credit limit.
> You have been there for - what - 8 to 10 months now?
> It will take at least 2 years to get an unsecured credit card with a decent enough limit to allow you to finance your living expenses and not have to keep making payments mid-month.


A bit off-topic, but wanted to share because it may be useful to snowbirds and any other US visitors.

I have a secured credit card from Wells Fargo, one of the largest banks. As mentioned by several people here, an unsecured card is hard to get and I was repeatedly rejected (I tried many different banks)

I did however just receive a letter that informs me that my secured card will be upgraded to a regular unsecured card, and my deposit will be returned. That will make it about 8 months since getting the secured card, and exactly 1 year since getting a SSN and establishing a bank account. Mind you, this card is still at $500 limit ... a fraction of what I need ... but it will be interesting to see if they're willing to give a higher limit with my unsecured card.

In the meantime I primarily use my Canadian credit cards as I have much higher limits, and now I'm using the new TD US visa too


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

The bigger banks are generally more tightwads, as you'd expect.
You may be able to get an unsecured card with the more "flexible" lenders like Capital One, Providian, and Chase Manhattan.
Store cards with Visa/MasterCard logos can also be good options since the retail stores feel they are getting a captive customer.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I have a secured credit card from Wells Fargo, one of the largest banks. As mentioned by several people here, an unsecured card is hard to get and I was repeatedly rejected (I tried many different banks)


When we were thinking about relocation to US, we actually visited Wells Fargo and they told us that our Canadian credit history doesn't count and they won't give us right away unsecured card (even though my wife employer was guarantor of the relocation...
However, for long time we were holding Canadian American Express and when I asked them about relocation, they said that there is no problem, as far as i move they will issue US version of AMEX


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Chase Visa. It comes in several flavours...Amazon, Marriott, and one or two others. Used to be A Sears flavour as well but I seem to recall reading that they had bailed.

Anyone know of a Canadian bank or Credit Union that does not charge a fee for foreign ATM withdrawals...or refunds the fee? A number of US banks do this.

We use another card for car rentals. We always travel with several cards, credit and convenience, and keep the desperate. Deathly afraid to have all of them stolen or have our only access card 'eaten' by an ATM.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> The bigger banks are generally more tightwads, as you'd expect.
> You may be able to get an unsecured card with the more "flexible" lenders like Capital One, Providian, and Chase Manhattan..


Yeah but what I said, above, is that I did just get an unsecured card... and not too long after opening a US credit file. About one year of US credit history seems to have been enough to get an unsecured credit card.

It's a secured card being automatically converted into an unsecured card, without me doing anything


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

fraser said:


> Anyone know of a Canadian bank or Credit Union that does not charge a fee for foreign ATM withdrawals...or refunds the fee? A number of US banks do this.


TD doesn't if you have the all-inclusive account (5000 min balance to avoid fees). Tangerine also doesn't.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

It may have been mentioned before but the Chase Amazon Visa that has no Forex fees does not have CDW coverage so may not be a good choice for renting cars.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

fraser said:


> Anyone know of a Canadian bank or Credit Union that does not charge a fee for foreign ATM withdrawals...or refunds the fee? A number of US banks do this.


Scotiabank has it, for selected banks. They are part of a 'global ATM alliance', so if you use your Scotia card in a Bank of America ATM, there is no foreign fee. I've been doing it for years and it's great for travels. They have partner banks in many countries


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Scotiabank has it, for selected banks. They are part of a 'global ATM alliance', so if you use your Scotia card in a Bank of America ATM, there is no foreign fee. I've been doing it for years and it's great for travels. They have partner banks in many countries


Is there a forex fee?


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

Spudd said:


> TD doesn't if you have the all-inclusive account (5000 min balance to avoid fees). Tangerine also doesn't.


I think Tangerine uses Scotia's Global ATM Alliance, so it would be free only at Bank of America in the US, Barclays in the UK, etc.

TD's All-Inclusive is free at all Plus-affiliated ATMs, which I think should be pretty much all major banks in US, Western Europe/ANZAC sorts of places. Very handy when you want cash in some vacation spot and don't want to hunt around for the appropriate ATM.

BMO has a comparable Premium package ($25/$5000 waiver), but only provides 5 international ATMs in a month, which may be an issue for vacation binges. The other major banks don't have balance waivers on their highest-end banking packages, so the monthly fee is in cash and may be pricey. RBC's VIP package has free ATM, but is $30/month ($22.50 with their Multi-Product discount), and you get 3 Plus-system ATMs in the Signature package ($14.95/$10.95). Other banks will vary.



Guban said:


> Is there a forex fee?


I don't think there are _any_ banks that don't hit foreign currency ATM withdrawals with forex fees?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

NorthernRaven said:


> I think Tangerine uses Scotia's Global ATM Alliance, so it would be free only at Bank of America in the US, Barclays in the UK, etc.


You have to understand what they mean by "free" though. There's no fee for using the ATMs of banks in the alliance, but you're still charged a network fee (typically $2.00) every time you use one of those ATMs. We discovered this last year in France, where I made a couple of withdrawals from BNP Paribas, which is part of Scotiabank's Global ATM Alliance.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We do anywhere from 15-20 foreign ATM withdrawals a year.

When we get back I am going to check our Chase Visa card. If we create a credit balance on the card and then use the card in foreign ATMs as a cash advance I wonder what fees we would incur AND if the money would come across with no FX admin fees-like their normal charge transactions. Have never done cash advances so have no idea about the fees. I know that the interest charges are userous. 

We looked at Scotia's program last year...it is geographically challenged-especially in SE Asia. At the moment we do not pay any monthly bank fees-over 55 program.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

fraser said:


> We do anywhere from 15-20 foreign ATM withdrawals a year.
> 
> When we get back I am going to check our Chase Visa card. If we create a credit balance on the card and then use the card in foreign ATMs as a cash advance I wonder what fees we would incur AND if the money would come across with no FX admin fees-like their normal charge transactions. Have never done cash advances so have no idea about the fees. I know that the interest charges are userous.


They charge 1% of the cash advance amount, with a minimum charge of $5.
amazon.ca T & Cs


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

As Kieth says. 1% with a $5 minimum charge. If you over fund the card and then use it the way you describe, the charge will apply but there will be no interest charge if you don't withdraw beyond the excess you have put in. We did this with my son when he first got to Australia and was local currency poor before he started getting paid. The interesting thing is that putting an excess in does not increase your credit limit by a corresponding amount which I found a bit strange.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

brad said:


> You have to understand what they mean by "free" though. There's no fee for using the ATMs of banks in the alliance, but you're still charged a network fee (typically $2.00) every time you use one of those ATMs. We discovered this last year in France, where I made a couple of withdrawals from BNP Paribas, which is part of Scotiabank's Global ATM Alliance.


Was this with a Tangerine account, or Scotia - I suspect Tangerine? I found a thread over at RFD where a couple people this summer/fall had similar $2.00 fees for Cirrus access with Paribas (and Deutsche Bank), and Tangerine indicated there were still configuration problems between Tangerine and the Alliance, and refunded the mistaken fee. I would expect that Alliance members (now including Tangerine) should not see any ATM fee.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

NorthernRaven said:


> Was this with a Tangerine account, or Scotia - I suspect Tangerine? I found a thread over at RFD where a couple people this summer/fall had similar $2.00 fees for Cirrus access with Paribas (and Deutsche Bank), and Tangerine indicated there were still configuration problems between Tangerine and the Alliance, and refunded the mistaken fee. I would expect that Alliance members (now including Tangerine) should not see any ATM fee.


Ah, interesting, I didn't know about that! It was Tangerine. I guess I need to ask them for a refund. Our trip was in October, so it hadn't been fixed at that point.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Guban said:


> Is there a forex fee?


With Global ATM alliance withdrawals, I'm reasonably sure there is a standard 2% to 3% forex fee. I can dig up my spreadsheet and check the exact amount for the US.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

What kind of extra admin fees, or higher exchange rates, do the banks charge on foreign ATM fees?

If the bank charges2 points more in fees or high FX rates it may well be worth paying the Amazon card one percent fee IF the money is coming across with no FX admin fee or at the market exchange rate.

We never buy foreign exchange at the bank because their retail rates are always at least 1 1/2-2 points higher than what we pay at our FX store.

We typically withdraw about $700 CAD at a time when we are travelling.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

fraser said:


> What kind of extra admin fees, or higher exchange rates, do the banks charge on foreign ATM fees?
> 
> If the bank charges2 points more in fees or high FX rates it may well be worth paying the Amazon card one percent fee IF the money is coming across with no FX admin fee or at the market exchange rate.
> 
> We never buy foreign exchange at the bank because their retail rates are always at least 1 1/2-2 points higher than what we pay at our FX store.


I think if you exclude the ATM/network fees, the exchange rate would be determined by your issuing Canadian bank. It is probably around that common 2.5% rate, or whatever you'd see if you did the exchange at the branch or via your online account. 

1% from the Chase Visa would be better, but remember there is a $5 minimum. So it is only 1% for a $500 withdrawal, and increases as the withdrawal amount grows smaller - 5% for a $100 withdrawal.

I think the 1% is basically to cover what Chase is charged by the Visa system as a forex fee over their "posted" rate. Amazon/Marriott are presumably eating this for foreign purchases as part of their costs, much like the 1% cashback. So if someone had a Chase card and made all their purchases outside Canada, presumably it is costing Amazon/Marriott 2% for that customer.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Please check my math.

If I withdraw $700. In foreign currency from my bank ATM It would cost $5 plus the fx fee of , say 2.5 percent or 17.50 for a total transaction cost of 22.50.

If I loaded up my Chase Marriott card with a cash balance, then took a cash advance equal to $700 CAD, the fee would be $7. No fx admin charge, no interest fees since I have a credit balance. This assumes no fx fee. 

The delta is 10.50... A substantial percentage difference.

Am I in left field on this....


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

fraser said:


> The delta is 10.50... A substantial percentage difference.
> 
> Am I in left field on this....


Plus you get a 1% cashback?


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

My math was wrong

Bank fees for the transaction $22.50. Chase card fees $7. Delta 15.50 which is significant. If I do this 20 times per year the savings would be $310. Not too shabby assuming it works.

No cash back...Marriott Chase card.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Math sounds right. AFAIK cash advances don't earn the 1% even when you do have a rewards card like the Amazon Visa. It is definitely a savings. I'm not sure on the assumption of forex charge on a cash withdrawal from a foreign ATM. My experience is that, unlike actually charging something on Visa, the forex rate on a cash withdrawal from a foreign ATM is much closer to the spot rate. Much less than 1% when I have checked. I had found this the case in the US, the Mid-east, Africa, Eastern Europe and the Far-east but admittedly the last time I went this way was maybe 5 years ago.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

fraser said:


> My math was wrong
> 
> Bank fees for the transaction $22.50. Chase card fees $7. Delta 15.50 which is significant. If I do this 20 times per year the savings would be $310. Not too shabby assuming it works.
> 
> No cash back...Marriott Chase card.


First, you'd want to be very sure about the cash-advance-with-negative-balance rules used by Chase. Cash advances normally attract interest immediately, and you'd want to be sure that there isn't some sort of special bookkeeping whereby they track cash advances with interest separately, even if done when you have a negative balance and interest shouldn't enter the picture. It seems reasonable your assumption is going to be okay, but make sure.

Second, how would you physically obtain the cash advance in the foreign country? If you stick the Chase card into an ATM, you'd potentially attract some sort of network fee, like that $2 Plus fee from BNP Paribas "brad" ran into above. You'd want to check to see if Chase provides free access through Plus machines, or if the system would add a network fee to the advance amount. Probably still cheaper than the $5 foreign ATM fee typical of Canadian debit transactions (if not waived by your banking package), but still something to look into.

[Later]: Oh, and "uptoolate" is right, you lose the 1% cashback if you would have made the purchase on the Visa card otherwise. So it eats two-thirds of your forex savings in that case - unless you need to make cash purchases at your destination.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

The negative balance option does work for the Chase Amazon Visa card but NortherRaven is right in that my son has had to actually go into the bank to do the cash advance. I don't know if he tried the 'Withdraw Cash from Credit Card' option at the ATM. There were no interest charges on the cash advance as long as balance was still negative.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

We just got back from vacation where we used the Chase Amazon Visa to withdraw from an ATM. We chose the credit card option, and it worked fine (with associated $5 fee). Sadly we weren't aware of the $5 fee and had been thinking we were smart saving the forex. :stupid:


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Some Sears M/Cs save on forex:
http://www.searsfinancial.ca/CreditCards/SaveonForeignCurrencyChanges.aspx


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> Some Sears M/Cs save on forex:
> http://www.searsfinancial.ca/CreditCards/SaveonForeignCurrencyChanges.aspx


Chase is phasing out of the Sears credit card franchise, and that no-forex Sears M/C will be gone by November.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Spudded....You may have paid the $5 chase visa cash advance fee BUT did the money come with no FX fee?

The FX fee can be the larger of the two fees. In our case, assuming 2.5 on 700, that fee equal an extra 17.50 if we used the bank ATM.

I just transferred some money int my Chase Visa card yesterday. When it hits the account I will try doing a cash advance on a foreign ATM.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

NorthernRaven said:


> Chase is phasing out of the Sears credit card franchise, and that no-forex Sears M/C will be gone by November.


Good to know, thanks for sharing


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

fraser said:


> Spudded....You may have paid the $5 chase visa cash advance fee BUT did the money come with no FX fee?


Yeah, there was no FX as far as I could tell. But we withdrew like $50 in one transaction and $200 in the other, so it wasn't a good idea for that specific situation. With your $700 at a time, it would surely be worth it.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Thanks. We are going to try it in the next day or so. We stay at a lot of places that want cash or charge an extra 3 points for Visa.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Please report back because this seems to be a solution for our Europe trip. In Turkey, our debit cards did not work so we were doing the cash advance thing but getting hit with the 2.5% fee before we got the Chase Visa.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Please report back because this seems to be a solution for our Europe trip. In Turkey, our debit cards did not work so we were doing the cash advance thing but getting hit with the 2.5% fee before we got the Chase Visa.


I spent August in England and used the chase amazon card for a cash advance. I put a negative balance on my card (overpaid) before the transaction. There was a $5 cash advance charge but I did save on FOREX fee. Works great!


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

This card leoc2?
http://www.amazon.ca/Amazon-ca-Rewards-Visa-Card-Chase/dp/B00AFGCPZ2

Interesting you decided to overpay on the card, to try and avoid cash advance fees? Didn't work...sadly I guess....but good try all the same!

I should call them about that, see what their T&C says.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> This card leoc2?
> http://www.amazon.ca/Amazon-ca-Rewards-Visa-Card-Chase/dp/B00AFGCPZ2
> 
> Interesting you decided to overpay on the card, to try and avoid cash advance fees? Didn't work...sadly I guess....but good try all the same!
> ...


No, you can't avoid the cash advance fee. You overpay, otherwise the cash advance also immediately attracts the 20% APR interest rate on the card! That would be 5.5 cents per day, per $100 - or over $1.50 per hundred per month.

Remember, with the $5 minimum cash-advance fee, you only get 1% forex with a $500 withdrawal, a $100 withdrawal is equal to 5% forex, and so on.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> This card leoc2?
> http://www.amazon.ca/Amazon-ca-Rewards-Visa-Card-Chase/dp/B00AFGCPZ2
> 
> Interesting you decided to overpay on the card, to try and avoid cash advance fees? Didn't work...sadly I guess....but good try all the same!
> ...


Yes that card and see what NorthernRaven says below your post.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks to both of you. I might apply for the card for some travel later this year, seems like the best for that.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We are travelling now. 

Just checked the first two bank card foreign ATM withdrawals. Used XE average numbers on the day of the transaction to determine the spot rate.

Bank exchange was 3 percent higher than the spot rate. Plus their $5 fee.

The Chase Bank Visa cash advance used the XE spot rate. The Chase service charge was 1 percent.

So, on my foreign withdrawal the bank charges would have been about $27.30. The Chase service charge was $7.40.
That $20 difference will buy us dinner in Thailand!

It works. The trick is to load up the Chase card a little early as the transfer from my bank to the Chase card often takes 2 business days. We get zero interest on our checking account so it does not matter where the money sits.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Thanks that confirms the strategy for me.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Sweet. It's nice to have the confirmation. Thanks fraser. Have a great trip.


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