# Phone scammers



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Phone scammers are now using a system that the phone number looks like a local number.

Is there nothing the telcos can do about this spoofing of local numbers ? It is getting to be a pain in the butt.

I signed up for the "no call" list and they just ignore it.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

No, I do not think so. 

We no longer answer numbers, local or long distance, that we do not recognize. It helps that we only have cell phones, no land line. Easier drop or not answer the call.

Agree, the do not call list is a bit of a joke.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

They've been doing fake caller id numbers for a years, nothing new. 
Either ignore numbers you don't know or take down their business info (if a Canadian company) and report them.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

You might be able to run all your incoming calls through Interactive Voice Response (IVR) system (also known as Auto Attendant). Have the incoming caller press a number before the call gets completed to the final destination. This generally kills the spammers. The phone only rings if there is a real person calling.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I just take my time and string them along for as long as I can. Fewer live leads in an hour, and the sooner they will quit the job and hopefully be more productive in some countries economy.

A day or so ago it was 'Microsoft' telling me I had a problem with my computer. 
"Which computer" I asked- there are presently about 7 in our house hold.

My faves are the 'CRA' or their like saying I am about the be arrested.. 
Yah, so I have had correspondence with CRA in the past. It is always initially by mail. Sometimes the follow up is by email, but it always starts with hard copy snail mail.

My cel phone faves are the phony text message, or the ones that come in presuming I can speak cantonese or mandarin; which I cannot.

And of course 'duct cleaning' Some times I get them going asking if they can clean my wood burning fireplace flue while they are at it, and it takes them off script and they are lost. 

Or I say:"No, ducts are fine, but can you do geese washing?" That gets them off script too. 
I should learn the tat lace, because I seem to otherwise have so much fun with verbal stringing.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> I signed up for the "no call" list and they just ignore it.


Many of these come from foreign countries. They are illegal over there too, but the problem is enforcement.

You can't trust what caller ID says. This is trivial to fake or spoof. Be especially careful about calls which look like they come from a bank, credit card company or the government. Even if it shows CRA's phone number, it could be fake.

Here's the general rule. *When you answer* a phone call, you never know who is really at the other end of the line. The caller ID is meaningless.

So if you get a call from someone claiming to be the bank or CRA, you should say to them: "I don't know if you are legitimate. Give me your employee ID or a reference number, and I will call (the bank or CRA) myself." The real organization will happily give you the reference number and understand why you're saying that.

Hang up. Then dial the bank or CRA using the phone number that you know is legit. I've done this even when the bank legitimately did call me first... they understand the security concern and they know why people should be calling them back.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Simpler solution ... have an answering machine take the calls. If you're legit, I'll get back to you.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

These scams are affecting communication with my doctor.

On my landline, I leave the answering machine on and don't answer it until I hear what the message is. On my smartphone setting, I had set a block on non-private calls. However, I still get calls from spammers. But when my doctor called, he used his own phone so right away he got bounced to voicemail. I had his office number in my contact list but he didn't use that. So two days later, I told my wife I was expecting my doctor's call, so while I was in the washroom, he called and my wife picked the landline without waiting for the answering machine.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Many of these come from foreign countries. They are illegal over there too, but the problem is enforcement.
> 
> You can't trust what caller ID says. This is trivial to fake or spoof. Be especially careful about calls which look like they come from a bank, credit card company or the government. Even if it shows CRA's phone number, it could be fake.
> 
> ...


I've actually done this. Someone stole my credit card number.
When I called back, the Credit card fraud department said almost nobody does this.

Funny one, when my bank called to renew my mortgage by phone, they asked me to authenticate.
I laughed and said I'd call them back, I don't authenticate to incalls, they asked why? 
They honestly had no idea that the bank security programs say to never give your personal information.
It's crazy they were doing phone call solicitations like this, likley in violation of their own policies.









Discover How RBC Keeps You Safe from Fraud


The RBC Digital Banking Security Guarantee keeps you safe from fraudulent activity by fully reimbursing you for any unauthorized transactions.



www.rbc.com




"RBC will never ask you to provide, confirm or verify personal, login or account information through regular email, text message, or phone calls, or ask you to sign in to any online service. "


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

my usual reply: "No, he no live here any more. He DIE!.......Hello?"


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Tostig said:


> These scams are affecting communication with my doctor.
> 
> On my landline, I leave the answering machine on and don't answer it until I hear what the message is. On my smartphone setting, I had set a block on non-private calls. However, I still get calls from spammers. But when my doctor called, he used his own phone so right away he got bounced to voicemail. I had his office number in my contact list but he didn't use that. So two days later, I told my wife I was expecting my doctor's call, so while I was in the washroom, he called and my wife picked the landline without waiting for the answering machine.


Yeah, that's terrible. I would like to throttle all these phone scammers.

Myself, I found my landline home phone was becoming nothing more than a vehicle for scammers and telemarketers as I slowly increased the use of my mobile phone. 

So in December I dropped my landline after a lifetime of usage and have found the mobile (as my only phone) offers me a lot less grief. I feel the lion's share of scams and telemarketers gravitate to the landline.

It's far easier to manage the spam with my mobile phone than the landline. I guess the lack of software solutions on landlines versus mobile is the reason.

Anyway, consider dropping your landline. For me, I save $71.13 a month and give a big FU to the scammers.

ltr


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

They some how have managed to infiltrate my work phone and my kids phone. We generally don't answer however, with work I still need answer calls that I don't answer. My house phone, we dont answer and it goes to our VPN. 

We have a few techniques that seem to help reduce the calls;
-always block the number after you hang up
-I do try to string them along. I have a new story every time. My record is over 94 minutes. Usually they catch on sooner. I always make sure I think they are going to hang up to tell them if they keep calling I will waste there time and my record is 94 minutes. 
- If I don't have time, I have a large pot with metal spoons in, and throw my phone in it, and bang the pot. This my kids favorite tactic.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

You gotta love Lenny


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Funny one, when my bank called to renew my mortgage by phone, they asked me to authenticate.
> *I laughed and said I'd call them back, I don't authenticate to incalls, they asked why?*
> They honestly had no idea that the bank security programs say to never give your personal information.
> It's crazy they were doing phone call solicitations like this, likley in violation of their own policies.


Thanks for sharing. That's awful. These people need much better security training.

One problem is that banks outsource their sales and marketing to third party companies. You will occasionally get these credit card solicitations from people who don't work for the bank.

We all need to be vigilant because these aren't easy situations to navigate. I need to spend more time speaking with older family members to drive home these best practices, such as, don't trust anyone on an incoming phone call. Never reveal private personal information on an incoming phone call either.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> We all need to be vigilant because these aren't easy situations to navigate. I need to spend more time speaking with older family members to drive home these best practices, such as, don't trust anyone on an incoming phone call. Never reveal private personal information on an incoming phone call either.


Sure they are: "no, thank you. good bye!"


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> Sure they are: "no, thank you. good bye!"


Except that sometimes it really is a legitimate call from the bank/cc which needs some action.

That's the tricky part. You can't just answer everyone phone call and tell them to get lost.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Tostig said:


> These scams are affecting communication with my doctor.
> 
> On my landline, I leave the answering machine on and don't answer it until I hear what the message is. On my smartphone setting, I had set a block on non-private calls. However, I still get calls from spammers. But when my doctor called, he used his own phone so right away he got bounced to voicemail. I had his office number in my contact list but he didn't use that. So two days later, I told my wife I was expecting my doctor's call, so while I was in the washroom, he called and my wife picked the landline without waiting for the answering machine.


That is the main reason I put up the post.

Since COVID, we are getting calls from private numbers from doctors, insurance agent,wife's work, and others who are not working from their office.

So, I feel compelled to rush over and answer the call and it is dead air......and then somebody who can barely speak English.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Scammers are getting money from seniors who are convinced to pay up front for a vaccine.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Except that sometimes it really is a legitimate call from the bank/cc which needs some action.
> 
> That's the tricky part. You can't just answer everyone phone call and tell them to get lost.


Or if you have family or kids.......a friend of theirs could be calling about an emergency or something.

It is the spoofing of local numbers that is the biggest problem. The telcos should be able to stop that.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Except that sometimes it really is a legitimate call from the bank/cc which needs some action.
> 
> That's the tricky part. You can't just answer everyone phone call and tell them to get lost.


My bank/cc literally never contacts me. I initiate all contact.

When in doubt, ask for some details and tell them you will call the number you have on file to discuss. Never trust incoming calls on financial matters.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

If it is important they will leave a message.


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## Bananatron (Jan 18, 2021)

Thats the main reason we dropped our landline. We rarely used it as we would just use our personal cells but it was still nice to have in case someone wanted to call "the house". The 2 or 3 spam calls we got per week made the decision easier.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Bananatron said:


> Thats the main reason we dropped our landline. We rarely used it as we would just use our personal cells but it was still nice to have in case someone wanted to call "the house". The 2 or 3 spam calls we got per week made the decision easier.


I don't see what this has to do with landlines. I get scammy calls to both my cell phone and VoIP business numbers all the time.


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## Bananatron (Jan 18, 2021)

james4beach said:


> I don't see what this has to do with landlines. I get scammy calls to both my cell phone and VoIP business numbers all the time.


We didn't really use our landline - the annoyance and frequency of the spam phone calls made the decision to get rid of it easier. If I had to pay 5 bucks a month for it to just sit there and not make noise I'd probably still have it right now.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> My bank/cc literally never contacts me. I initiate all contact.
> 
> When in doubt, ask for some details and tell them you will call the number you have on file to discuss. Never trust incoming calls on financial matters.


Absolutely.

My FI's do call, I always call them back with a number I have on file.

They often get annoyed, because nobody does that.

You want to piss off a mortgage agent? Read the mortgage contract before you sign it.

I know people like to blame the companies (and often they should), but many customers don't even make an effort at due diligence.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> I've actually done this. Someone stole my credit card number.
> When I called back, the Credit card fraud department said almost nobody does this.
> 
> Funny one, when my bank called to renew my mortgage by phone, they asked me to authenticate.
> ...


 ... did you not report this to RBC as that's (very) concerning (even it might not be coming directly from the big bank itself) given the contradictory practice with their disclaimer.

And who knows what else this can lead to given almost all bankings are done online at this time and age. Ie. if their disclaimers are not ironclad, then there is a BIG f-problem.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> my usual reply: "No, he no live here any more. He DIE!.......Hello?"


 .. that would be a (cracked-me-up) response if you only have to reply once or twice a day but I get most of us get waaaaayyy more of those crap-calls than that per day.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Or if you have family or kids.......a friend of theirs could be calling about an emergency or something.
> 
> It is the spoofing of local numbers that is the biggest problem.* The telcos should be able to stop that.*


 ... that's a Bigger joke! They can't even handle their own caller IDs-tracing that you subscribed and paid for!


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

It does seem strange that they can't put a stop to SPAM. For every sucker, the spammers have to make thousands of calls, and they'll all have spoofed numbers. Surely this is something the telecom equipment can identify. I've often wondered if the Telco's aren't being paid to look the other way.

ltr


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

FYI ... New caller ID measures coming into play on June 30, 2021.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

If it is important and we do not answer the call, the caller will leave a message for us to pick up. We will return the call if appropriate. We stopped answering 800 and 01 LD calls a long time ago.

We have not found this to be a challenge.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> My bank/cc literally never contacts me. I initiate all contact ...


Must be nice ... it isn't often but I get regular messages left on the answering machine looking to offer a new, improved credit card or a review of my business.
The online banks are the only ones who don't call.




andrewf said:


> ... When in doubt, ask for some details and tell them you will call the number you have on file to discuss. Never trust incoming calls on financial matters.


I let it go to the answering machine and if curious, I will call the number on file.

The extreme example is when the particular T1213 filed with CRA had them call to leave a vague message on my work voicemail. I used my cell phone to call the CRA number on file to ask them to confirm the number/person was legit and then to connect me to them.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Except that sometimes it really is a legitimate call from the bank/cc which needs some action.
> That's the tricky part. You can't just answer everyone phone call and tell them to get lost.


I don't answer.

If there is any indication it might be real, I call the number that is on file, from a different phone.
What's tricky?


Cheers


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> Must be nice ... it isn't often but I get regular messages left on the answering machine looking to offer a new, improved credit card or a review of my business.
> The online banks are the only ones who don't call.
> 
> 
> ...


Ask them to code you as “do not solicit”.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Yesterday....two calls from telus, one for Scotiabank, and one unknown. Day before...call from Scotiabank plus one unknown (do I do not want duct cleaning) Today...so far one call logged from telus.

Did not answer any of them. No message. I missed nothing except for answering and hanging up.


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## Bananatron (Jan 18, 2021)

I have been getting 2-3 of these things per day lately. Infuriating. Local number, pick up, silence. I'm selling some junk on kijiji so maybe its from there?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I get a lot of scam calls that CRA gonna arrest me, windows and doors, duct cleaning etc...
When I'm bored, I even "playing" with them ...


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We had a run of three or four CRA type calls a few months ago. Then they stopped as suddenly as they had started. Telus and Scotiabank are the top of our hit parade these days.


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