# Immigration



## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

There are 11 million illegal immigrants involved in illegal activities in the US. These are people who have broke the law twice, first upon entering the country and then running afoul of the law afterwards. They have been encouraged to get right with the law for many years and yet chose not to. 

They could have went to any immigration center, stated their case and asked for asylum, but they stayed under the radar instead. Why on earth should these people be allowed to stay in the country. 

And now they have canada in their sights and we are not prepared at all. Once these people cross the border, the are going to be breaking the law twice - illegal entry 2 times. Can canada handle a million or more refugees at once. We can barely handle our own including our own indigenous peoples. These are not the upstanding citizens we want here. My parents in law are from SE asia. They waited 5 years for their paperwork to be processed to come to canada the right way. 

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...border-in-february-how-many-will-come-by-june

We need to realize the purpose of immigration has changed. Early immigrants a 100 years ago came here and broke the land and opened a country and they did it with no support. Nowdays you can just come to canada, move to a torornto enclave and collect support payments. Sure some will fill low skilled jobs nobody else wants to do, but those jobs are going to be replaced by automation in the future. 

Should someone who just landed illegally get the same benefits or more than our seniors or our indigenous peoples.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

tygrus said:


> There are 11 million illegal immigrants involved in illegal activities in the US. These are people who have broke the law twice, first upon entering the country and then running afoul of the law afterwards. They have been encouraged to get right with the law for many years and yet chose not to.
> 
> They could have went to any immigration center, stated their case and asked for asylum, but they stayed under the radar instead. Why on earth should these people be allowed to stay in the country.
> 
> ...


No of course not, but the Tru-dough bleeding hearts will take them in anyway and find support shelters for them,
put them on welfare (or workfare in Ontario) and we will all be a happy family embracing Canadian values.
Good thing there an ocean between us and Africa/Somalia and other countries where they are leaving in droves in overloaded boats with many drowning.

Lets hope that all these illegal border crossers, (who pay drivers to dump them off at the two current escape route checkpoints, don't turn into a "flood of lemmings"jumping over the border and demanding refugee status so we can support them.

We will pay for this at some point if we keep taking them in. Who supports the gov't that supports the refugees?
The taxpayers of course!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ Disabled senior complaining about other people being on welfare. Right...


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

Those who cross the border can apply for refugee status - a status they may not get. If they are not deemed eligible to stay in Canada they could be deported.
OP - what changes do you want to see in the how those who cross as unguarded borders are treated/handled?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

andrewf said:


> ^ Disabled senior complaining about other people being on welfare. Right...


Talk about avoiding the topic. Can canada handle an influx of up to a 500,000 to a million illegal immigrants. What your solution.



BoringInvestor said:


> OP - what changes do you want to see in the how those who cross as unguarded borders are treated/handled?


We are going to have to do what other countries do. Immediate detention with some sort of fast track screening. If people were already in the US as refugee claimants or immigrants under due process, they cannot claim the same in a new country and are to be returned to the border. There is international law backing this.

If you have no record or documentation coming in from the US, you are illegal 2 times and should be returned to your country of origin in joint exercise with US authorities.

Anyone else who is a legitimate resident of the US and just got scared of trump or likes canada, you get the right to apply properly and return home until your paperwork is processed in 5 yrs.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

That sounds like a huge number. What makes you think Canada is going to get 500,000 to 1 million *illegal* immigrants?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

andrewf said:


> ^ Disabled senior complaining about other people being on welfare. Right...


LOL


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## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

BoringInvestor said:


> Those who cross the border can apply for refugee status - a status they may not get. If they are not deemed eligible to stay in Canada they could be deported.
> OP - what changes do you want to see in the how those who cross as unguarded borders are treated/handled?


Here are the changes that I would like to see made. For refugees crossing the border from the US that travel by vehicle to a border crossing they will be turned back because of the Safe Third Country Agreement. This same rule should apply to refugee that illegally cross the US-Canada border by foot. They are in no danger in the US thus the Safe Third Country rules apply.

Many of these refugees that we are taking now have already spent 7 - 16 months in the US and have had refugee hearings there. Their refugee claims have been denied so why should Canada be taking them.

Why do cities like Montreal declare that they will be a safe harbor for refugees with no papers? Are we taking in rapists, murderers or even worse. What kind of vetting are we doing to keep Canadians safe? Trudeau and all these "do good Liberals" will be the downfall of this great country that we live in.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

james4beach said:


> That sounds like a huge number. What makes you think Canada is going to get 500,000 to 1 million *illegal* immigrants?


Well if the US is deporting 11 million, isnt it feasible that at least 5-10% might try to go north. And if a few make it, the word quickly spreads. Look at Europe.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

tygrus said:


> Talk about avoiding the topic. Can canada handle an influx of up to a 500,000 to a million illegal immigrants. What your solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AFAIK laws will be applied and enforced, allowing anyone to stay here who meets the criteria, and deporting anyone who doesn't have a case under the law.
I'm not seeing the need to change, as I'm not seeing what problem needs addressing.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

bariutt said:


> Here are the changes that I would like to see made. For refugees crossing the border from the US that travel by vehicle to a border crossing they will be turned back because of the Safe Third Country Agreement. This same rule should apply to refugee that illegally cross the US-Canada border by foot. They are in no danger in the US thus the Safe Third Country rules apply.
> 
> Many of these refugees that we are taking now have already spent 7 - 16 months in the US and have had refugee hearings there. Their refugee claims have been denied so why should Canada be taking them.
> 
> Why do cities like Montreal declare that they will be a safe harbor for refugees with no papers? Are we taking in rapists, murderers or even worse. What kind of vetting are we doing to keep Canadians safe? Trudeau and all these "do good Liberals" will be the downfall of this great country that we live in.


If the Safe Third Country Agreement were that clear, are you suggesting it's not properly being enforced today since they're not being turned away from unguarded borders?

It's a good question - what kind of vetting do we do. I've read some news articles talking about the checks being done. Have you found any information on it? I'd be interested to know more.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

BoringInvestor said:


> Have you found any information on it? I'd be interested to know more.


http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/laws-policy/menu-safethird.asp

Click on "Where the agreement is in effect".


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> That sounds like a huge number. What makes you think Canada is going to get 500,000 to 1 million *illegal* immigrants?


Posterior extraction method.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Congratulations to Donald Trump.

He has turned the US into Syria with refugees risking their lives to leave.

Job well done.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

sags said:


> Congratulations to Donald Trump.
> 
> He has turned the US into Syria with refugees risking their lives to leave.
> 
> Job well done.


You can thank one person for all this GWB. He was the original flyswatter on the cockroach nest with his iraq war which morphed into the arab spring then the muslim brotherhood then ISIS then syria then russia then refugees then trump then this. Its rolling chaos across the globe. 

Hopefully andrewf is prepared to do his part and take a couple in as house guests.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

tygrus said:


> There are 11 million illegal immigrants *involved in illegal activities* in the US. ...


You've been channeling Donald Trump. It's true there are an estimated 11M illegal immigrants, and it's a fair question for public debate what to do about it. The phrase "involved in illegal activities" is a sophistry. It is deliberately intended to imply they are all involved in ongoing criminal activities, and are therefor a danger to the public. The only "illegal activity" for the vast majority is their presence (and possible employment) in the US without legal permission.

From this website: http://www.migrationpolicy.org/news...nal-convictions-who-might-be-priority-removal
_The most recent publicly available information provided by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on the criminal alien population (the government’s official terminology) dates back to a 2012 report to Congress. Based on it, we estimated in a 2015 report that 820,000 of the approximately 11 million people living in the country illegally had criminal convictions. Of these, we estimated 300,000 had a felony conviction and 390,000 were serious misdemeanants (meaning they had been convicted of a misdemeanor in which they were sentenced to actual custody of 90 days or more)._


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

Userkare said:


> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/laws-policy/menu-safethird.asp
> 
> Click on "Where the agreement is in effect".


Thanks, but I was asking for more information about vetting vs the safe third party agreement.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

OhGreatGuru said:


> You've been channeling Donald Trump. .


I said illegal due to their unsanctioned entry into a sovereign state. Then I said run afoul of the law which is everything from traffic tickets to drugs and murder. 

Once they cross our border they are 2 times illegally breaking the law entering yet another country.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

bariutt said:


> Here are the changes that I would like to see made. For refugees crossing the border from the US that travel by vehicle to a border crossing they will be turned back because of the Safe Third Country Agreement. This same rule should apply to refugee that illegally cross the US-Canada border by foot. They are in no danger in the US thus the Safe Third Country rules apply.
> 
> ...


The Safe Third Country Agreement is predicated on the assumption that participating countries have reasonably comparable, and fair, systems for processing refugee claims. Given the daily tweets from the White House, there is good reason for claimants to conclude this is no longer the case, which explains the surge of claimants to Canada. They are getting out while the getting is good. Thanks a lot Donald.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

BoringInvestor said:


> Thanks, but I was asking for more information about vetting vs the safe third party agreement.


Vetting can be done in about 30 seconds;

Ask these three questions under a lie detector;

1. Do you think sharia law should be allowed
2. What should be done with LQGBT people
3. Is the jewish state legitimate and should they be allowed to exist in peace.

boom - 90% disqualified in a heartbeat.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

What does this thread have to do with General Personal Finance Talk?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

OhGreatGuru said:


> What does this thread have to do with General Personal Finance Talk?


Well we pay taxes dont we. That affects my general personal finances greatly.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

james4beach said:


> That sounds like a huge number. What makes you think Canada is going to get 500,000 to 1 million *illegal* immigrants?


 Boat loads coming into Mexico then Mexico bus them close to US boarder to sneak cross into US. This is happening now it could get really crazy the same way Europe is being destroyed. The markets are in a giant bubble inclusion the name of the game. The fake media hates Trump more then it wants to protect its citizens & just recently says Trump is lying about imigration problem in Sweden yet go on you tube Sweden is a mess


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

tygrus said:


> You can thank one person for all this GWB. He was the original flyswatter on the cockroach nest with his iraq war which morphed into the arab spring then the muslim brotherhood then ISIS then syria then russia then refugees then trump then this. Its rolling chaos across the globe.
> 
> Hopefully andrewf is prepared to do his part and take a couple in as house guests.


Interesting sequence. Like GWB wasn't even born when the Muslim Brotherhood grew to millions of members, instigated the "Arab Revolt" and organized into a paramilitary force mimicking German Brown Shirts. And Russia? Really? Was GWB responsible for Russia?


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## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

BoringInvestor said:


> If the Safe Third Country Agreement were that clear, are you suggesting it's not properly being enforced today since they're not being turned away from unguarded borders?
> 
> It's a good question - what kind of vetting do we do. I've read some news articles talking about the checks being done. Have you found any information on it? I'd be interested to know more.


So called refugees have found a loophole in Canada's Safe Third World Agreement. If these refugees from the US were to land at an airport or cross by vehicle at a border crossing Canada' immigration department will send them back to the US stating that they are in no danger. However the loophole that is being spread around the world now is that if a refugee can actually set foot on Canadian soil (i.e. by walking across the border illegally) then they are entitled to a refugee hearing here (which will take many months to years) along with appeal processes after that.

Our idiot Prime Minister Jughead Trudeau has elected to do nothing to plug this loophole and welcome all of these border crossers even though what they are doing is illegal.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

lonewolf :) said:


> ... The fake media hates Trump more then it wants to protect its citizens & just recently says Trump is lying about imigration problem in Sweden yet go on you tube Sweden is a mess


And you-tube is *such* a reliable source of facts! (LOL)


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I think we should even go with a more radical approach as in buying the illegal immigrants off just like the cash for guns program. If they go to a immigration center and declare themselves, their status and crimes will not be looked and they take plane ticket and say $10,000 to go home and start a new life over the right way. 

Thats going to be a lot cheaper to try and process these cases and support everyone while we do and its a lot more humane than locking them in a detention center or giving them to US border guards. Surely there are lots of people that are stuck in limbo, dont like where they are at and are unlikely to every see their family back home again. Rather than be a displaced person on the run, take the cash at go back to your country of origin. Maybe our money would do some good then rather than wasted on lawyers.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

andrewf said:


> ^ Disabled senior complaining about other people being on welfare. Right...


 Carverman makes a lot of sense pointing out facts. We often see our self in others so your perception of complaining might be of one you see in you. Seniors have built the infastructure we enjoy today I appreciate the job they have done. Europe let in migrates to rape women & little girls, throw rocks @ men & destroy property. Andrew you failed in your thinking in your comment.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

OhGreatGuru said:


> And you-tube is *such* a reliable source of facts! (LOL)


 I can see with my own eyes the videos watch (Something youve never seen is happening in Europe/Migrant crisis/ WW3/ Donald Trump) also (the truth about Sweden), I dont think these videos are fake there are a lot of other videos as well plus a lot of people are commenting from these countries that it is really happening when the fake media says there is not a migrant problem


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Swift removal after a little process and we need to send a strong message that Canada isn't the place to run to. If not, like Europe people will be sent here if they know we have an open door policy. Save money and a big headache for the people of our country by sending a strong message. Also anyone here illegally cannot get welfare.

Of course as I said before these people are votes down the road and Trudeau welcomes that. In fact I heard in Germany they are thinking about giving refugees and illegals a vote in elections if true Germany is toast.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

And on the other hand you have legitimate, law-abiding people in Canada with full-time permanent jobs in professional positions that are struggling to obtain permanent residency.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Well maybe if they got together and said we will always vote Liberal and back the stupid immigration, then they will easily get permanent residency.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

bariutt said:


> So called refugees have found a loophole in Canada's Safe Third World Agreement. If these refugees from the US were to land at an airport or cross by vehicle at a border crossing Canada' immigration department will send them back to the US stating that they are in no danger. However the loophole that is being spread around the world now is that if a refugee can actually set foot on Canadian soil (i.e. by walking across the border illegally) then they are entitled to a refugee hearing here (which will take many months to years) along with appeal processes after that.
> 
> Our idiot Prime Minister Jughead Trudeau has elected to do nothing to plug this loophole and welcome all of these border crossers even though what they are doing is illegal.


Very true!


> Perhaps you believe they should be sent back without a hearing. But that is not Canadian law, and given Supreme Court rulings on the matter is unlikely to become law.


 Supreme Court is playing "democracy", Trudeau Jr - international PR and regular Canadians will be suffering.... 
However, this problem can be easily resolved... when I work in Israeli police, I processed deportation of hundreds of illegals. Palestinians were simply loaded to bus and kicked off on the border, illegals from other countries were sitting several days in jail ( court was always agreed to keep them several days in jail until deportation). Then respective embassy was buying for their illegals one-way ticket back home and ... goodbuy


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> ^ Disabled senior complaining about other people being on welfare. Right...


What kind of BS are you spewing here Andrewf? Yes,I may be disabled at this point in my life, BUT, I support my self 100% with NO GOVT ASSISTANCE! 

I worked all my life until retired at Nortel, have paid all my taxes both income
and property and consumer,so I have a right to complain about anybody that thinks they can sneak into my country illegally now without paying their dues, for a free ride.

So *STFU!*


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> However, this problem can be easily resolved... when I work in Israeli police, I processed deportation of hundreds of illegals.
> 
> Palestinians were simply loaded to bus and kicked off on the border, illegals from other countries were sitting several days in jail ( court was always agreed to keep them several days in jail until deportation). spective embassy was buying for their illegals one-way ticket back home and ... goodbye.


This is what needs to be done now in Canada. While some may face prosecution if deported back to their own country, those have to be treated on a case by case basis. 

The rest should be returned over the a normal CSB guarded checkpoint
and dropped off inside the US to be reprocessed back to where they came from.
Otherwise they will see a weakness in the refugee system between the US and Canada and exploit it..... just like what is happening in Europe.

Unfortunately pr**khead Harper and his harpies agreed to change the immigration rules with the US, so that any riff raff from the African countries can fly into the US then get rejected by the US immigration authorities for deportation,

so they simply hire a driver to drive them to the "underground" undefended crossing points and declare themself refugees in Canada, because under the current agreement if the US won't accept them as refugees, then if they cross over to Canada, our country "has" to.

This stupid political move has just open up the floodgates. Trump doesn't want them
in the US, so they know that Canada will take them as long as they walk over illegally.
Criminals as well as possible refugees that have legitmate reasons will enter our country.

This will make a sham of the whole immigration process..why not declare an open
border then and let everyone in!


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

It seems most here are in agreement that illegals should be dealt with quickly and sent back. This kind of tells me that maybe the majority of Canadians feel this way as well and this could be an issue that the conservatives can use to bounce out Trudeau in the next election.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

new dog said:


> It seems most here are in agreement that illegals should be dealt with quickly and sent back. This kind of tells me that maybe the majority of Canadians feel this way as well and this could be an issue that the conservatives can use to bounce out Trudeau in the next election.


Didn't you say you voted for Trudeau? Sort of a surprise given the nature of your posts. What were you thinking?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

There are articles in the cbc saying these guys have travelled through half a dozen countries first to arrive at our border. I mean are there no checks anywhere in the world anymore. 

Canada has a perfect system right now imo. We take in about 300,000 people about 10% are refugees but everything is closely vetted even handpicked sometimes, family focused, linked to relatives already here etc. But we are not prepared for people rushing our borders. 

Goodale is saying international law will be respected. I assume thats 3rd safe country agreement. We will see.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

What seems to be missed in these conversations is that Muslims aren't risking their lives to leave their countries so they can support the same type of oppressive radicalized Islamist dogma from which they are escaping. 

If they wanted to live under Sharia Law, deny rights to individuals, and denounce Israel, they could stay in their country and support ISIS.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Canada could build welcome centers and get the US to pay for it.

Statistics have consistently shown that immigrants create wealth for the country. 

Maybe the political divide in this country is because rural Canadians don't see daily reminders of how much economic impact immigrants have on Canada. Living in a city..........just looking around at all the businesses, one gets a sense of the positive economic impact immigrants (including recent immigrants) are having on the community once they get their feet on the ground.

Canada supplies initial financial support and immigrants pay it back many times over in the future.

The debate should be about the best way to assist immigrants into becoming contributing members of Canadian society, not on how we stop them from coming or kick them out when they arrive.

Social discontent in Europe is largely about social economic conditions and it was predicted a long time ago.

There is no comparison to Canada, which doesn't have the same history.

We should focus our time and energy on keeping it that way.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Yeah SMK I voted Liberal last election because I figured we needed a change but I didn't think it would come to this so I definitely wear this one.

Sags these people want a paid for wonderful life while slowly trying to bring in the bad life, in a more controlled way then their own countries.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I tacitly supported T2 because I thought he would have learned from past mistakes but here we are heading into a 1.5 trillion dollar debt that our kids will have to pay for and at the same time policies that are way too liberal for most and regressive tax system that is expanded every day for who knows what. 

I lost it for T2 just days after he was sworn in when he sent $2.6 billion of our money to support countries dealing with climate change. Who knows where that money landed, probably in some dictators hands. He could have given that to our indigenous peoples right off the bat. Then the support payments trying to bring 25,000 refugees here giving them more money than our seniors who built this country or veterans or indigenous peoples all for a photo op. Most syrians are still on support, have no jobs and visit the local food banks weekly. Soon as he did that, I knew he was out of it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Canada has lots of jobs to offer in the low income range.

Let us take an honest look at why that is and ask ourselves how immigrants can come to Canada, accept those jobs and flourish.

Maybe it is because of the starting point for immigrants and natural born Canadians is so vastly different.

Immigrants arrive grateful for the opportunity and determined to work as hard as they must to succeed. They are willing to sacrifice, work together and support each other, and work together as family units towards a common goal. They would rather buy a 5 bedroom home and share it, than work and rent 5 apartments. They will buy 3 cars and share them among 5 drivers. They will all contribute to the family "pot" and are content to wait their turn. They value education for their kids and are willing to sacrifice as a family unit to ensure higher education is available to all who work hard enough to qualify for it.

What do natural born Canadians expect ? Each wants their own residence. Each wants their own vehicle. Each cannot survive on low wages.

The success of immigrants isn't that they earn more. It is that they share a mutual goal for success for all.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

sags said:


> If they wanted to live under Sharia Law, deny rights to individuals, and denounce Israel, they could stay in their country and support ISIS.


Really? Do you think this imam and PhD student is a minority here? http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/22/police-probe-imans-sermons

What about the MULTIPLE rallies in Canadian universities threatening and harassing Jewish students? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...f-anti-semitism-at-student-union-meeting.html

Of course Muslims are not alone in threatening Jews. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ent-rep-who-called-for-zionists-to-be-punched


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> What seems to be missed in these conversations is that Muslims aren't risking their lives to leave their countries so they can support the same type of oppressive radicalized Islamist dogma from which they are escaping.


Ok, they have a purpose to get the H out of their worn torn decimated countries where some get murdered and raped on a daily basis...I understand that, but why do they have to straddle two countries to get someone to accept them? Where is their documentation, passports or visas to ensure their identity is verified?



> If they wanted to live under Sharia Law, deny rights to individuals, and denounce Israel, they could stay in their country and support ISIS.


 C,mon Sags! Sharia law and Muslim culture hasn't got that much to do with why they are leaving their African countries in droves. 

Here is just my opinion..ok?

1.Economy is really bad or non existant in SOME of these 3rd world countries
2. Persecution/genocide is common (ok that is one good reason)
3. Looking for a better future hearing from others.."go to America..you will have a good life and get rich maybe?
So they get smuggled in somehow on visitors permits or illegally, and land in the US living in hostels or "underground accomodation" that support their own kind.

Along comes Donald Trump who has a completely different view of immigration from Obama..
he is not tolerant of illegals..whether they be Mexicans (which he labelled as "rapists" or Muslims which he also paints as "terrorists"...so all of a sudden, these immigrants have no safe haven any more in the wonderful US of A, and fear
that they will be deported when caught, which I'm sure is starting to happen now.

Trump has already mentioned publically that he will hire as many special agents
to seek out and confine all illegals without proper papers subject to processing them
for deportation. Maybe he would just ship them off to Gitmo (Guantanomo) and
deal with them "later".


All of sudden they see some hope..Canada will take us in..it has taken in others..so lets just cross a
spot in the unguarded border at NIGHT and sneak in..where they will be "arrested" and put in hostels here in Canada that have:
1. Free food
2. Free medical care
3. Lessening the fear of instance deportation while being processed for x weeks or even months
4. Assurance they will have shelter
and
5.Welfare to keep them going
6. Education..well maybe, but they have to learn English first, unless they land in Quebec and already
speak French.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

In both the articles cited, the leaders and organizers publicly denounce the behavior of one or a few individuals.

That is as it should be. Public denouncement of such behavior is a much needed signal to others that it won't be tolerated.

Canadian police and security agencies get much of their information from within the Muslim community, who suspect someone in their midst is becoming radicalized. They need that conduit of information to remain open.

Those who spew vitriol only do so when they have a listening audience. 

Canadians need to show and reinforce that we are not listening to or tolerating such rhetoric.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

sags said:


> In both the articles cited, the leaders and organizers publicly denounce the behavior of one or a few individuals.
> Canadian police and security agencies get much of their information from within the Muslim community, who suspect someone in their midst is becoming radicalized.


Of course they would after being caught. Did any member of the congregation report the imam?

True about Muslims cooperating with police but mostly to do with terrorism-radicalization issues. You should have left "denounce Israel" out of your sentence.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Carverman........

Where do you think a family fleeing ISIS is going to go to compile all these documents ?

Do they wander over to the ISIS passport office and request a travel visa ?

These people are running for their lives. They leave with the clothes on their backs and not much more.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Look what happened when the body of a convicted terrorist is returned home. 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/w...nvicted-of-world-trade-center-bombing-in-1993

Guy hasnt lived in Egypt in 30 yrs and look how many supporters came out. 

Think we could get that many people out to support Tim McVeigh.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I have read many articles, including our own city.......where local Muslim clerics and spokespeople publicly denounce any violence or condemnation of Israel.

I read an article where the local Jewish Synagogue offered their place of worship to Muslims needing a place to worship.

Picking out an oddball Muslim cleric or radicalized twenty year old university student is not illustrative of the relationship between most Muslims and Jews.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Carverman........
> 
> Where do you think a family fleeing ISIS is going to go to compile all these documents ?
> 
> ...


And they flee to the US of A..the land of opportunity where they can hide amongst the Muslim (assuming here that the majority is Muslim), hoping to live out their lives as illegals. 

Remember the Mexican illegals that work (or worked) as farm workers? They can hide for many years inside the US that way, and not collect any US benefits working 
under the table because they know they could get caught and be deported.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I was talking to a couple of Iraqi brothers outside their pizza shop a few years ago.

Local Somalian taxi drivers were driving up and parking in the lot to attend Ramadan in the building next door.

A police officer drove up and got out. He was an Iraqi who had served in the Canadian army in Afghanistan before he became a police officer.

They began talking about a local subdivision developer and custom home builder who was from Syria.

They were all practicing Muslims. All peaceful and law abiding and helping to build Canada in their own way.

This is the reality in many Canadian cities.

Grocery stores full of Muslim immigrants. Restaurants, hair salons, business owners...........all Muslim.

Preaching lies and hate against them and their religion as some do, doesn't reflect the reality in Canada.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Preaching lies and hate against them and their religion as some do, doesn't reflect the reality in Canada.


Almost all of the ME immigrants that have businesses or jobs in Canada came over legally through the immigration process. Some may have come in as refugees, others with some
money from businesses they may have had in the ME, but again they would be processed as legitmate refugees that underwent the required immigration process.

I'm talking about the "midnight-sneak across an unattended border crossers".


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

We need to be careful that our morals dont torpedo our economy. If trump sees us taking huge swaths of border jumpers, he may conclude our border is porous and our govt indifferent and put up restrictions on trade. Canada wont be the same prosperous country if we have trade troubles with our neighbor. Then we all lose.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We are committing ourselves to support for Mexico, so Trump may not like us much anyways.

I wouldn't build policy around Trump. I don't think he is going to last very long.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

sags said:


> I wouldn't build policy around Trump. I don't think he is going to last very long.


But his policies might. He might just be a fall guy to get a radical agenda in then its very hard to unwind.

I am not willing to risk our standard of living for this.


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## lifeliver (Aug 30, 2010)

bobsyouruncle said:


> And on the other hand you have legitimate, law-abiding people in Canada with full-time permanent jobs in professional positions that are struggling to obtain permanent residency.


This is a big issue in Vancouver


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

lifeliver said:


> This is a big issue in Vancouver


It has become a bigger issue since they changed the rules on points given for an LMIA. Now certain professionals that are not eligible for PNP have no way of accumulating sufficient points to be considered for PR. They're stuck in limbo, their employers unable to help them get PR, and without PR they can't get a mortgage.


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## lifeliver (Aug 30, 2010)

sags said:


> Canada could build welcome centers and get the US to pay for it.
> 
> Statistics have consistently shown that immigrants create wealth for the country.
> 
> ...


Immigrants =/= Refugees

My family immigrated to Canada in 1997. It took 2 years to get all the paperwork done. My parents needed to pass medical examinations, prove that they are employable and will be able to find work, and go to interviews with Canadian officials at the local Canadian embassy in our home country. And we came from a "western country". 

People need to be vetted before we let them in here. Our major cities already have a housing crisis going on, and I am willing to bet that rural Canadians dont exactly want refugee camps in their nice quite small towns.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Immigrants <> Refugees


I was telling same things many times, but many still don't get.
We had similar process when immigrated in 1999, only didn't have any interviews as our education/employment records were too good ...
Obviously it was worth to Canada to bring our family, my wife just got T4 ... she paid taxes more than 80K


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

gibor365 said:


> my wife just got T4 ... she paid taxes more than 80K


Someone will come along and tell you to stop complaining, that if she's making that much, you've got it good, but of course that's not the point.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yes, those were the good old days.........but there were even older "good old days" when immigrants bought a ticket for passage on a ship and arrived at Ellis Island with their personal luggage and a buck or two in their pocket. Or maybe, they arrived in Montreal with a document in hand that granted them a plot of free land in Saskatchewan and the government's best wishes......like my wife's grandparents arriving from Poland.

How unfair was it that people already living in Canada in cities didn't also get free land in Saskatchewan ? 

What was the government thinking.......empty land........needs to be worked......allow immigrants to do the work.

It today's parlance it might well be..........available jobs............need to be worked..........allow immigrants to do the work.

What is an immigrant ? What is a refugee ?..........just a matter of timing and circumstance.

That is Canada.........built by past generations of immigrants and refugees.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

SMK said:


> Someone will come along and tell you to stop complaining, that if she's making that much, you've got it good, but of course that's not the point.


She's making that much because she is working 70-90 hours per week include weekends... but you are right - it's not the point


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> I was telling same things many times, but many still don't get.
> We had similar process when immigrated in 1999, only didn't have any interviews as our education/employment records were too good ...
> Obviously it was worth to Canada to bring our family, my wife just got T4 ... she paid taxes more than 80K


How do you know the son or daughter of a refugee accepted into Canada today.........won't become the best brain surgeon in Canada, discover a cure for cancer, or go on to establish a multi-billion dollar business in the future ?


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

gibor365 said:


> She's making that much because she is working 70-90 hours per week include weekends... but you are right - it's not the point


It goes without saying that you don't get paid for slacking off, but some don't care about the effort and hard work involved, even you're an immigrant yourself.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

sags said:


> *Preaching lies* and hate against them and their religion as some do, doesn't reflect the reality in Canada.


Mr. Positive, it's you who actually does a little bit of that, but not everything you say is the truth, perhaps because you can't handle the truth? You paint a perfect picture, always!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

SMK said:


> It goes without saying that you don't get paid for slacking off, but some don't care about the effort and hard work involved, even you're an immigrant yourself.


true  some think that money are growing on there trees , so they should share with others who is bumming around all day long


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

SMK said:


> Mr. Positive, it's you who actually does a little bit of that, but not everything you say is the truth. You paint a perfect picture, always!


as we say in Russian, he "he looks at the world through pink glasses"


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

sags said:


> How do you know the son or daughter of a refugee accepted into Canada today.........won't become the best brain surgeon in Canada, discover a cure for cancer, or go on to establish a multi-billion dollar business in the future ?


and how do you know that he won't become serial killer or rapist or terrorist?!
It's like picking up mushrooms, better to check before you eat it, or chances that you will be poisoned. 



> What is an immigrant ? What is a refugee ?..........just a matter of timing and circumstance.


 Too sad that you don't understand the difference


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

sags said:


> How unfair was it that people already living in Canada in cities didn't also get free land in Saskatchewan ?


Sags, not all immigration is equal. Everybody that comes here in subsequent years has it better than the previous batch.

My grandparents were given a bit of land too, and thats it. They had to use their wits and hard labour to make a living off it. And they got land because there was nothing out there. No roads, trains, services, medicine etc. City people had access to jobs and services and wildly appreciating property values.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> and how do you know that he won't become serial killer or rapist or terrorist?!
> It's like picking up mushrooms, better to check before you eat it, or chances that you will be poisoned.
> 
> Too sad that you don't understand the difference


Canada's mushroom experts have been doing a good job of sorting them out.

There is a chance someone could enter as a refugee and commit terrorist acts, but we could get hit by a meteor too.

I don't worry a lot about either event happening.

Have faith in the skill of those assigned to protecting Canadians. They are also protecting their own families.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

I was told by a school teacher living and working in a major Canadian city, that she has experienced muslim kids cheering with delight when news of a terrorist attack or bombing has occurred that has killed westerners or western soldiers. 

I think there's a real danger that the kids, who don't know how terrible their homeland was/is under islamic rule, will become more intolerant of the west and desire Sharia law more than their immigrating parents.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I think there's a real danger that the kids, who don't know how terrible their homeland was/is under islamic rule, will become more intolerant of the west and desire Sharia law more than their immigrating parents.


 There was a huge celebration on Palestinian territories after 9/11 attack


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Unless you want to live inside a prison fortress, you will have to accept some risk.

Isolated terrorist incidents are a possibility. Take over of our government by fanatics.........no chance of that ever happening.

Even a dingbat like Trump would have no chance of being elected in Canada.


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## lifeliver (Aug 30, 2010)

sags said:


> Unless you want to live inside a prison fortress, you will have to accept some risk.
> 
> Isolated terrorist incidents are a possibility. Take over of our government by fanatics.........no chance of that ever happening.



If we are accepting the risk, what is the reward ?


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

gibor365 said:


> There was a huge celebration on Palestinian territories after 9/11 attack


Yes. But the particular point I'm making is that even the 'good' muslims that may pass stringent tests, are very likely to have children that will be much more easily radicalized, and to look at Sharia law as the best form of civil government.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bobsyouruncle said:


> And on the other hand you have legitimate, law-abiding people in Canada with full-time permanent jobs in professional positions that are struggling to obtain permanent residency.




isn't this an oxymoron? how can there be more than a few persons with no long-term residency status in canada whatsoever, yet they are employed in this country on a full-time permanent basis, in professional positions?

afaik the higher professional orders are extraordinarily - in fact famously - guarded about licensing undocumented foreigners to work here.

.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> ....They were all practicing Muslims. All peaceful and law abiding and helping to build Canada in their own way.
> 
> This is the reality in many Canadian cities.
> 
> ...


I understand that this may be the case today, and I applaud that if it is, but do you anticipate any problems if they are "building Canada in their own way"?

I sometimes get concerned when I look at countries that are majority Muslim, and with respect, they don't appear to be anywhere I'd like to live, and certainly wouldn't want to be a female and live there. The intolerance to non-Muslims and to woman in general is shocking.

I wonder what happens if Muslims get the numbers and become the majority in our country. It's a long way off to be sure, but I wouldn't want Canada to resemble any country I've ever read about that is majority Muslim.

What are your thoughts on that?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I dont fear the terrorist attacks. Statistically they are low risk. 

I fear the ideology and the creeping of special interest rights and protections that sideline or supersede our laws and customs. This is why the current bill specifically naming islamaphobia is a slippery slope.


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## lifeliver (Aug 30, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> isn't this an oxymoron? how can there be more than a few persons with no long-term residency status in canada whatsoever, yet they are employed in this country on a full-time permanent basis, in professional positions?
> 
> afaik the higher professional orders are extraordinarily - in fact famously - guarded about licensing undocumented foreigners to work here.
> 
> .


Here is an example. I relocated from Toronto to Vancouver for work. I had an Airbnb for two months so that I have a chance to find reasonable rental accommodation. I could not find anything in those two months and thus had to quit my job and leave Vancouver. 
This is a true story.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bobsyouruncle said:


> Yes. But the particular point I'm making is that even the 'good' muslims that may pass stringent tests, are very likely to have children that will be much more easily radicalized, and to look at Sharia law as the best form of civil government.



this seems a bit ridiculous, to worry that immigrants will be law-abiding productive canadian citizens themselves, but they will be "very likely" to raise radicalized children who will demand sharia law.

perhaps we should cross that bridge when it comes into view, on the distant horizon. Right now, there isn't even a stream to cross. Children are children. As a nation surely we don't want to condemn children in advance for having model parents, but hey, what if an offspring might happen to turn funky some decade in the future ...


.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lifeliver said:


> Here is an example. I relocated from Toronto to Vancouver for work. I had an Airbnb for two months so that I have a chance to find reasonable rental accommodation. I could not find anything in those two months and thus had to quit my job and leave Vancouver.
> This is a true story.



sorry, but what do your housing problems have to do with your immigration status? 

you were saying that parties with full-time permanent employment as professionals in this country, are unable to obtain permanent residency status. But to the best of my knowledge, the opposite is the case. Employers who require specialized foreign workers are able to obtain permanent resident status for such workers, very easily.

.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> this seems a bit ridiculous, to worry that immigrants will be law-abiding productive canadian citizens themselves, but they will be "very likely" to raise radicalized children who will demand sharia law.
> .


How would a kid raised in canada and never even visited the middle east even know about sharia law? see my point. Its obviously taught, and its taught in the perspective that its superior to our laws. Roots of radicalism being taught under the guise of religious freedom.


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## lifeliver (Aug 30, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> sorry, but what do your housing problems have to do with your immigration status?
> 
> you were saying that parties with full-time permanent employment as professionals in this country, are unable to obtain permanent residency status. But to the best of my knowledge, the opposite is the case. Employers who require specialized foreign workers are able to obtain permanent resident status for such workers, very easily.
> 
> .


My point is that our major cities where the majority of the jobs are are already suffering from shortage of housing. Why do we need to bring in new people who may or may not contribute to our society? This will increase demand for housing and make it less affordable for the rest of us.

Someone made a point earlier that the refugees live in big families in one residence. This allows them to afford more expensive accommodations. Whereas someone who is brought up here and values independence and living on their own, is now struggling to afford this.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

1. Send a strong clear message that Canada isn't the place to go for illegal immigrants
2. Your here illegally your on your own no handouts except food or something
3. When bringing in refugees we try to mix it up with christians or whatever not just muslims
4. Increasing the population of Canada is a bad goal and we have to try to live with the population we have, with normal growth. Not the stupid Trudeau model of 100 million people in Canada or whatever. Sure we might have more economic growth but I would rather do away with overcrowding.

Altogether Tygrus concerns are right on and this is how all Canadians should think. I would rather not sacrifice my country and take the risks that haven't turned out well for other countries.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> ....this seems a bit ridiculous, to worry that immigrants will be law-abiding productive canadian citizens themselves, but they will be "very likely" to raise radicalized children who will demand sharia law..


Agreed that this is what would seem logical. The kids would chum around with other Canadian kids while they were in school and radicalization would be the last thing on their mind.

But, time and time again, for years I have been reading articles that refute this. You can google this and come up with many (perhaps fake?) examples.

example
_While immigrants draw much of the attention, it’s their children who are proving to be the most fruitful recruiting ground for radical jihad in the U.S., accounting for at least half of the deadly attacks over the past decade._

example
_The study found disturbing evidence of young Muslims adopting more fundamentalist beliefs on key social and political issues than their parents or grandparents._

example
_In a series of polls released by the paper over the course of this week, it has been revealed that Muslims are now more likely to take the word of the Quran literally, and that the teaching of the Islamic holy book should be implemented directly. In 2006 the number of people who agreed with the statement “the Quran's instructions should be followed completely” was 62 per cent – today it has grown to 77 per cent; a strong majority._

What are your thoughts on this?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

and then there is this, just a decade or two out;

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.co...-to-automation-mckinsey-co-chief-says-183865/

Better think twice on low skilled immigration. If anything, we should be targeting phd students in india and china.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

tygrus said:


> How would a kid raised in canada and never even visited the middle east even know about sharia law? see my point. Its obviously taught, and its taught in the perspective that its superior to our laws. Roots of radicalism being taught under the guise of religious freedom.


My kids grew up here (daughter was born here and son came when he was 4 y.o.), and they know a lot about Judaism, Israel and Russia (even though they never been there) and they 100% atheists.
Before I immigrated to Israel, I new a lot about Judaism, even though I also have been atheist...
Maybe some people don't want to know about their heritage, but it's rare...

No one mentions here about 2006 Ontario terrorism plot (it happens where I live)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ontario_terrorism_plot
Many of terrorists were born in Canada or immigrated here very young


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> isn't this an oxymoron? how can there be more than a few persons with no long-term residency status in canada whatsoever, yet they are employed in this country on a full-time permanent basis, in professional positions?
> 
> afaik the higher professional orders are extraordinarily - in fact famously - guarded about licensing undocumented foreigners to work here.


I don't know how many there are, but I know someone in a class A position (class 0 alone is above that, which is high level management and CEO-type positions) that cannot be replaced by more than one or two people in the entire nation, that is struggling to meet the criteria of the new points based system for permanent residency.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

tygrus said:


> and then there is this, just a decade or two out;
> 
> http://www.canadianmanufacturing.co...-to-automation-mckinsey-co-chief-says-183865/
> 
> Better think twice on low skilled immigration. If anything, we should be targeting phd students in india and china.



As long as we have the Liberals in power with the attitude Trudeau has, I would think Canadians will be left holding the bag and regretting the decisions they made. The problem will be like a cancer that has gone to far and it is to late to do anything about it. Unemployment, debt, crime and poverty will be what we will end up with.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> Employers who require specialized foreign workers are able to obtain permanent resident status for such workers, very easily.


No, this used to be the case when LMIA provided 600 points, which literally guaranteed PR. Now it only provides 50 points, which is about one tenth of the points needed.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> this seems a bit ridiculous, to worry that immigrants will be law-abiding productive canadian citizens themselves, but they will be "very likely" to raise radicalized children who will demand sharia law.
> 
> perhaps we should cross that bridge when it comes into view, on the distant horizon. Right now, there isn't even a stream to cross. Children are children. As a nation surely we don't want to condemn children in advance for having model parents, but hey, what if an offspring might happen to turn funky some decade in the future ...


Except that there's already evidence in the schools of children from civilized families, being radicalized to hate, or at least be sceptical of the west, and more favourable toward their 'home' nations.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carverman said:


> Unfortunately pr**khead Harper and his harpies agreed to change the immigration rules with the US, so that any riff raff from the African countries can fly into the US then get rejected by the US immigration authorities for deportation,
> 
> so they simply hire a driver to drive them to the "underground" undefended crossing points and declare themself refugees in Canada, because under the current agreement if the US won't accept them as refugees, then if they cross over to Canada, our country "has" to.



:biggrin: lol the world according to le mot quotidien du Carve, c'est toujours fun.

look at what Carve calls African riff raffs. Somehow, riff or raff or whatever, they can afford to pick up family, fly everybody through several countries into the US of A, get everybody turned down as refugees by the US gummint, then hire drivers to transport them north to the famous Roxham Road back door crossing into canada, just south of lacolle quebec.

drat. Apparently there are snakes in burundi, somalia & sudan who are operating back door traffic rings to serve the riffs & the raffs. I bet prices for a family start at $200-500k USD & up, FOB mogadishu. Refugee families trying to flee without funds are also reportedly being helped by various internet sites explaining DIY, including maps that show the walk-across canadian border stations.

this might not be too difficult to fix. Ideally US authorities should stop the traffic from reaching the border crossings, including persuading taxi companies in northern US towns to stop transporting refugees to border fields & ditches.

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bobsyouruncle said:


> Except that there's already evidence in the schools of children from civilized families, being radicalized to hate, or at least be sceptical of the west, and more favourable toward their 'home' nations.



what evidence, though? won't you please be specific


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Employers who require specialized foreign workers are able to obtain permanent resident status for such workers, very easily.


 No way! My wife is already looking for half years for directors position in bank she works and cannot find people with such qualification in Canada. She tried to talk to CEO about bringing foreign workers (and there are plenty of those), but it's just impossible


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> what evidence, though? won't you please be specific


My son had a plenty of such evidences when he studied in middle school.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> what evidence, though? won't you please be specific


You didn't respond?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor365 said:


> No way! My wife is already looking for half years for directors position in bank she works and cannot find people with such qualification in Canada. She tried to talk to CEO about bringing foreign workers (and there are plenty of those), but it's just impossible



you may be right, but sorry i have real difficulty believing this. Canadian banks are stuffed - at all levels - with workers brought in from asia & the middle east.

.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

bobsyouruncle said:


> Yes. But the particular point I'm making is that even the 'good' muslims that may pass stringent tests, are very likely to have children that will be much more easily radicalized


It was a white (likely Christian) Canadian, Alexandre Bissonnette, who carried out the recent radical attack and murdered 6 and injured 19 others in Quebec City. This was the most fatal terrorist attack in Canada since the Air India bombing in 1985.

Counting all terrorist incidents back to 2013, a total of 3 terrorists were foreigners/parents were recent immigrants, and 6 were "old stock" white Canadians.

Even if you banned all foreigners or all muslims from entering Canada, that would have only stopped 33% of those terrorist incidents.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> you may be right, but sorry i have real difficulty believing this. Canadian banks are stuffed - at all levels - with workers brought in from asia & the middle east.
> 
> .


Sorry to disappoint you , but I'm right! We talk with my wife about it almost every day. She just cannot fill out several director positions ... there are no qualified candidates in Canada.
you may apply, but I hardly believe you are qualified 



> at all levels - with workers brought in from asia & the middle east


 this is complete BS... just don't want to expand here about this topic


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor365 said:


> this is complete BS... just don't want to expand here about this topic



i beg your pardon? to repeat, canadian banks are stuffed with personnel from asia & the middle east.

although it stands to reason that a recidivist BSser would not be able to "expand here about this topic."

.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> i beg your pardon? to repeat, canadian banks are stuffed with personnel from asia & the middle east.
> 
> although it stands to reason that a recidivist BSser would not be able to "expand here about this topic."
> 
> .


Not on directors level, I was also surprised, but this is a fact! You may repeat whateven you want and maybe sags will believe you. . 
P.S. I won't argue that banks are "stuffed" for low-medium levels positions. Don't want to expand, because it can be privacy issue


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor365 said:


> My son had a plenty of such evidences when he studied in middle school.



what evidence? you need to be specific. Names, dates, locations, believable descriptions of actions that transpired, showing how school classmates were being radicalized.

you can't provide such documentation? what a pity. Because without clear documentation, all you have are empty hot air claims.

.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I am surprised to learn that there are positions that no Canadian can fill, that can be easily filled from outside the country.

Is this because all Canadians are Forrest Gumps while other countries are overflowing with Einsteins? Or is it because Canada's education system is so inferior? 

Could you be more specific about what fields we are talking about?


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I am surprised to learn that there are positions that no Canadian can fill, that can be easily filled from outside the country.
> 
> Is this because all Canadians are Forrest Gumps while other countries are overflowing with Einsteins? Or is it because Canada's education system is so inferior?
> 
> Could you be more specific about what fields we are talking about?


Again, I can't speak for anyone else with similar experience or knowledge within their circles, but the field I'm speaking about is Christian clergy.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> Agreed that this is what would seem logical. The kids would chum around with other Canadian kids while they were in school and radicalization would be the last thing on their mind.
> 
> But, time and time again, for years I have been reading articles that refute this. You can google this and come up with many (perhaps fake?) examples.
> 
> ...




my thoughts are that you could not have picked more inappropriate examples! none of your examples has one iota to do with canada or with 2nd-generation canadian immigrant youth. One is left wondering if you are deliberately trying to shoot yourself in the foot?



the first example is about american youth, as written up by ultra-right-wing Washington Times.

your second example is from right-wing british trash tabloid the Telegraph, about british youth.

& your third is about Danish youth, as written up by uber-right-wing Breitbart.


please understand that i'm not disagreeing with the possibility that a very few 2nd generation canada-born offspring of muslim immigrants "might" revert to a radical politic based on what they fantasize their atavistic grandmotherland might have been once upon a time, or should have been.

but to use this as an argument why no muslim immigrants or refugees are to be allowed is ridiculous. By far the vast majority of 2nd generation immigrant youth that i know resemble james4beach. They are talented, loyal to mainstream canada & balanced in their judgments. This country is fortunate to have them.


.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> By far the vast majority of 2nd generation immigrant youth that i know resemble james4beach. They are talented, loyal to mainstream canada & balanced in their judgments. This country is fortunate to have them.


I would agree with this. 

But how much opposition would they put up against the radicals, should they begin to get a voice? If the nation gets to a point where there's a muslim political party, who will they vote for?

Let us not forget Iran was once a fairly secular, forward-thinking nation.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I am surprised to learn that there are positions that no Canadian can fill, that can be easily filled from outside the country.
> 
> Is this because all Canadians are Forrest Gumps while other countries are overflowing with Einsteins? Or is it because Canada's education system is so inferior?
> 
> Could you be more specific about what fields we are talking about?


As I said I also was surprised, but this is a fact.... Her HR is working really hard, but was able to find only 1.5 candidates for 3 positions. On the other hand, even is US, there are many high-qualification positions when US residents cannot fill out... this is why so many aliens getting H1B or L1 visas ... 
btw, HP is correct that a lot of middle management positions are taken by immigrants.... my wife is an example (and I know a lot of her peers) ... not sure if senior director in major bank I can call middle-management position ... but the fact is that my wife in 4 years moved from simple architect to senior director position


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> :biggrin: lol the world according to le mot quotidien du Carve, c'est toujours fun.


Yup..glad you are enjoying playing in my sandbox Humble. 



> look at what Carve calls African riff raffs. Somehow, riff or raff or whatever, they can afford to pick up family, fly everybody through several countries into the US of A, get everybody turned down as refugees by the US gummint, then hire drivers to transport them north to the famous Roxham Road back door crossing into canada, just south of lacolle quebec.


That's an assumption Humble, nobody knows where these walking refugees get enough funds to
hire a taxi in Champlain NY, and climb over the border. It's all because of the Trumpster blowing his horn. 



> Unlike other asylum seekers who obtain tourist visas to travel to the U.S. and make their way directly to Canada upon arrival, this group appears to have been living south of the border for some time


.



> One of the men who had pulled his black toque down to hide his face told Cpl. Gagnon that he was from Eritrea and had been living in the U.S. since 2013. Another RCMP officer who seized the border-crossers’ passports held a *Minnesota drivers licence and what appeared to be a Sudanese passport in his hands.*


www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/02/20/canada-us-border-the-final-frontier-for-refugee-seekers.html




> drat. Apparently there are snakes in burundi, somalia & sudan who are operating back door traffic rings to serve the riffs & the raffs. I bet *prices for a family start at $200-500k USD & up*, FOB mogadishu. Refugee families trying to flee without funds are also reportedly being helped by various internet sites explaining DIY, including maps that show the walk-across canadian border stations.


It's becoming more and more popular but I can't see a family raising that kind of money in Mogadishu just to get to the US then cross the border. With that kind of money they could start their own business.like Sags mentioned earlier. 



> this might not be too difficult to fix. Ideally US authorities should stop the traffic from reaching the border crossings, including persuading taxi companies in northern US towns to stop transporting refugees to border fields & ditches.


Ya how? The taxi company is just picking up another fare as far as they are concerned.
What is needed now is that Mexican wall on the Canada US border. Trump should pay for it.
he's unleashed a "Pandora's box" with his immigration/deportation policies and I'm sure he
doesn't give one hoot about how it's going to affect Canada, as long as they get out of his US of A.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> i beg your pardon? to repeat, canadian banks are stuffed with personnel from asia & the middle east.
> 
> although it stands to reason that a recidivist BSser would not be able to "expand here about this topic."
> 
> .


 That's a nasty slap in the face Humble..who was the recepient? 
recidivist:
one who falls back into prior habits, especially criminal habits; a repeat offender


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

gibor365 said:


> As I said I also was surprised, but this is a fact.... Her HR is working really hard, but was able to find only 1.5 candidates for 3 positions. On the other hand, even is US, there are many high-qualification positions when US residents cannot fill out... this is why so many aliens getting H1B or L1 visas ...
> btw, HP is correct that a lot of middle management positions are taken by immigrants.... my wife is an example (and I know a lot of her peers) ... not sure if senior director in major bank I can call middle-management position ... but the fact is that my wife in 4 years moved from simple architect to senior director position


What positions? President and CEO of the World Bank? Astrophysicist? Pastry cook? Swiss watch maker? And why do no Canadians qualify? Are they too stupid? Is there no proper education available?


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carverman said:


> Yup..glad you are enjoying playing in my sandbox Humble.




it could not possibly be your sandbox, carverman. Many other cmffers are writing about the recent sudden increase in walk-through border crossings by refugee status seekers.

perhaps i should have come directly to the point: i found your racist slur against african "riffraff" to be offensive.

.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

sags said:


> How do you know the son or daughter of a refugee accepted into Canada today.........won't become the best brain surgeon in Canada, discover a cure for cancer, or go on to establish a multi-billion dollar business in the future ?


How do know they won't take a hunting rifle and go hunting at the mall?

You are creating a dependency scenario in which mediocre Canadians are inferior to hard working immigrants.

There are lots of countries in the world. How about we chose a Hindu or some other religion to reduce the risk profile?

The very fact there is so much online conversation about terrorism and immigration shows how fearful people are.

They have impacted us even without committing that many terrorist acts.

We argue and disagree with each other over this perennial topic. 

How much stress do we need?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is pretty much Harper's defeated Conservatives who are freaking out about immigration and refugees.

Everyone else is pretty happy with the way the Trudeau government has handled it so far and trust them to continue.

Forget about Trudeau if you want, Liberal Cabinet Ministers like Ralph Goodale and John McCallum have earned the trust of Canadians.

Conservatives are trying to make immigration a splinter issue in Canadian politics and are having hissy fits that it isn't working.


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

You're definitely the right person to speak for all Liberals. 

Wait until summer and let's see how tolerant Liberals and Conservatives will be.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Immigration is a big issue already and the Liberals will be defeated by it in the next election if they keep the path they are on. No one wants to lose a pile of tax payer dollars to illegal immigrants and refugees who may not be so thankful like in Europe. Liberals will be tolerant until they understand the stupidity of their positions but again by then the problem will be much worse. We need the conservatives to be all over this before it is to late.


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

sags said:


> Picking out an oddball Muslim cleric or radicalized twenty year old university student is not illustrative of the relationship between most Muslims and Jews.


No, it's not just "a twenty year old" when the threats and harassment of Jewish students takes place at multiple universities in Canada and abroad, by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. 

At Ryerson University in Toronto on November 29th, 2016, students from the Muslim Student Association and Students for Justice in Palestine held a walkout at a student meeting proposing Holocaust Education Week. They degraded and intimidated Jewish students. They said they did it because there are other genocides that need awareness. That’s like protesting against breast cancer research because there are other cancers. The real reason is simply anti-Semitism.http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/anti-semitism-is-the-new-social-justice/


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> What positions?


As I said, director positions in the bank... 


> And why do no Canadians qualify? Are they too stupid? Is there no proper education available?


 Probably , I don't know... maybe all smart already have similar positions in other companies...
The only persons who was even considered were: Immigrants from Bulgaria, Israel, Pakistan, Romania and Lebanon




> Is there no proper education available?


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

new dog said:


> Immigration is a big issue already and the Liberals will be defeated by it in the next election if they keep the path they are on. No one wants to lose a pile of tax payer dollars to illegal immigrants and refugees who may not be so thankful like in Europe. Liberals will be tolerant until they understand the stupidity of their positions but again by then the problem will be much worse. We need the conservatives to be all over this before it is to late.


 This is the problem. It can't be too late and Liberal stupidity can be non-reversible


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

People are grossly overthinking this new and temporary phenomena.

Some refugees are crossing the border to get out of the US because they fear deportation. 

They would rather stay in the US and work. They aren't interested in starting an insurrection.

Canadian law allows them to remain until their status is determined. 

Canadian authorities say it is progressing as designed, but needs some bolstering because of the numbers.

Fine..........we put contingency Plan B into action then.


----------



## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

sags said:


> Canada could build welcome centers and get the US to pay for it.
> 
> Statistics have consistently shown that immigrants create wealth for the country.
> 
> ...


 Sweden 55 no go not safe zones, rapes epidemic from immigrants, Almost all immigrates on welfare well they destroy property beat up locals rape little girls. There countries they came are a mess from their backward beliefs they help destroy every country they migrate to. According to Martin Armstrong mass immigration always leads to civil war @ some point in the future this guy has studied history. Countries are slowly being taken over by Moslims world war 3


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> it could not possibly be your sandbox, carverman. Many other cmffers are writing about the recent sudden increase in walk-through border crossings by refugee status seekers.
> 
> perhaps i should have come directly to the point: i found your racist slur against african "riffraff" to be offensive.
> 
> .


I find that some of your comments are VERY OFFENSIVE as well, so suck it up!!!
Get out my kitchen if you can't stand the heat. (put me on your ignore list and don't crap on my posts then 0k?...Sheesh!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

lonewolf :) said:


> Sweden 55 no go not safe zones, rapes epidemic from immigrants, Almost all immigrates on welfare well they destroy property beat up locals rape little girls.


Wow... what an obnoxious and misinformed comment.



> According to *Martin Armstrong* mass immigration always leads to civil war @ some point in the future this guy has studied history. Countries are slowly being taken over by Moslims world war 3


You've subscribed to the newsletter of a convicted felon who served 11 years in prison. He is a much, much bigger criminal than the average immigrant.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

11 years in prison ? I guess he had lots of time to study history.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I have no idea how good his economic analysis is, but there's got to be more reputable sources than this guy:
https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/0...after-11-years-including-7-for-contempt/?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/business/11wall.html


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## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

It is not right to use enormous amounts of Canadian tax dollars and resources to support illegal immigrants walking across our border when we have homeless and hungry people in our own country. They are in no danger in the US. They are using a loophole by walking across the border to avoid being turned back due to the Safe Third Country Agreement.

Our government should not let these refugees "jump the cue" in front of legitimate refugees who are following the legal process.

WAKE UP CANADA BEFORE TRUDEAU BANKRUPTS THIS COUNTY


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bariutt said:


> WAKE UP CANADA BEFORE TRUDEAU BANKRUPTS THIS COUNTY




but what a ride it'll be .each:

dear bariutt in no time at all u are going to wake up & find out that you have a brown-skinned grandchild

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carverman said:


> Get out my kitchen if you can't stand the heat.



sir please be assured that whenever i happen to stumble upon a racist slur against "riff raff" persons with different coloured skin, who happen to hail from other continents, i intend to post a critique! you can count upon it !!

.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I have no idea how good his economic analysis is, but there's got to be more reputable sources than this guy:
> https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/0...after-11-years-including-7-for-contempt/?_r=0
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/business/11wall.html


Since apparently he lost millions of dollars of clients money trading, I would say not very reputable. And what does a failed financial adviser have to do with immigration history?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> sir please be assured that whenever i happen to stumble upon a racist slur against "riff raff" persons with different coloured skin, who happen to hail from other continents, i intend to post a critique! you can count upon it !!
> 
> .


The term riff raff is slang and doesnt refer to race or ethnicity. You are jumping the gun on your accusation.

On top of that you are falling into the 'everyones a racist' just like the US media. My wife is from the Philippines and my children are half-half and I couldnt be more happy I met her in canada and more proud of my children. She went through the long process to immigrate here properly. This doesnt mean I want the borders thrown open either. Skin colors got nothing to do with it.


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## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

humble pie - if you want to carry on an intelligent conversation then please continue to post on this forum. If you want to post ignorant comments like the one you just posted to me then you should flock off. Ignorant posters like yourself have no place here.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

tygrus said:


> The term riff raff is slang and doesnt refer to race or ethnicity. You are jumping the gun on your accusation.
> 
> On top of that you are falling into the 'everyones a racist' just like the US media. My wife is from the Philippines and my children are half-half and I couldnt be more happy I met her in canada and more proud of my children. She went through the long process to immigrate here properly. This doesnt mean I want the borders thrown open either. Skin colors got nothing to do with it.


+1

When I refer to the term riff raff I am talking about people who are going to just suck off the system and do crimes. I would consider white soccer hooligans as riff raff as an example. Skin colour isn't important but what is important is will the immigrants to Canada help move Canada ahead into the future. I don't see it will with illegal immigrants or being heavy on the muslim refugee side. These groups are going to send Canada backwards in the future.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

bariutt said:


> humble pie - if you want to carry on an intelligent conversation then please continue to post on this forum. If you want to post ignorant comments like the one you just posted to me then you should flock off. Ignorant posters like yourself have no place here.


bariutt,

While hp has no need of anyone here defending her - she is quite capable of defending herself - I feel constrained to take issue with your comment


bariutt said:


> Ignorant posters like yourself have no place here.


 hp has a long and venerable history here and has contributed much to the forum. Not all of us agree with her all of the time, which is to be expected in any regular exchange of ideas. But the "ignorant poster" calumny is beyond the pale.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Spudd said:


> Since apparently he lost millions of dollars of clients money trading, I would say not very reputable. And what does a failed financial adviser have to do with immigration history?


lonewolf was citing this guy in his post


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> hp has a long and venerable history


bullshiting and offending others


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

james4beach said:


> lonewolf was citing this guy in his post


I know, I was meaning to disparage Lonewolf's use of him as an immigration expert, not you.


----------



## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The government wanted Armstrong computer which has been so good @ predicting markets & world events which Armstrong programmed. He wouldn't let the government have it so was thrown in jail others say was thrown in jail for stealing from clients. Lots of debate as what is the real truth. Any way it sliced Armstrong has had some amazing calls based on his pi cycle


----------



## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

new dog said:


> +1
> 
> When I refer to the term riff raff I am talking about people who are going to just suck off the system and do crimes. I would consider white soccer hooligans as riff raff as an example. Skin colour isn't important but what is important is will the immigrants to Canada help move Canada ahead into the future. I don't see it will with illegal immigrants or being heavy on the muslim refugee side. These groups are going to send Canada backwards in the future.


 In Europe anyone that spoke up against the immigration problem was called racist by the media, which resulted in a lot of people not speaking up. This is BS the immigration problem in Europe has nothing to do with race it has to do with backward ideology where rape is part of the culture, & the laws & ways of the Europeans are not respected & infidels are to be slaughtered as the migrates live off the system. This has nothing @ all to do with race certain countries the infidels have been killed off so naturally these countries it is dangerous to import migrants from. It would be nice if everyone got together & sang kom by ya though going back throughout history the world has never worked that way. Thank god for boarders so people with certain ways of life can live together.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

A lot of the churches are promoting immigration in to Canada. They are going against their own doctrine. In the bible when they tried to embrace multiculturism to build the tower or what ever it was to heaven it failed.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

lonewolf :) said:


> The government wanted Armstrong computer which has been so good @ predicting markets & world events which Armstrong programmed. He wouldn't let the government have it so was thrown in jail others say was thrown in jail for stealing from clients. Lots of debate as what is the real truth. Any way it sliced Armstrong has had some amazing calls based on his pi cycle


I have heard about this as well that Armstrong going to jail wasn't what is seemed. I have also heard they may of let him out if he complies more with what the establishment wants him to say. Hard to say what is really going on just like everything today.


----------



## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Some perspective for all the SJW out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Bottom line, yup its bad in places in the world, but we cant save everyone. In fact we may be hurting the world more.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

^ That talk was given in 1996. He made a great argument for globalization. Instead of importing people from the impoverished world, we should help them to become productive. In the 20 years since then, we managed to do just that by sending jobs to China, India and many other developing nations. Millions of people are lifted out of poverty every year. 

We just need to figure out how to address the displacement of domestic workers. Is that where the SJWs come in?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

olivaw said:


> ^ That talk was given in 1996. He made a great argument for globalization. Instead of importing people from the impoverished world, we should help them to become productive. In the 20 years since then, we managed to do just that by sending jobs to China, India and many other developing nations. Millions of people are lifted out of poverty every year.
> 
> We just need to figure out how to address the displacement of domestic workers. Is that where the SJWs come in?


Doesnt matter if its an old video. Just add another couple billion to his numbers, the logic is the same.

Helping someone in another country shouldn't mean having to give them your job. Nothing is solved by making someone else poorer or weaker in the process. We have seen what the end result of that policy is with Trump ascending to the presidency. Maybe T2 should learn that as well. 

People are a generally compassionate and giving but not to the point of harming their own self interest long term.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

tygrus said:


> Doesnt matter if its an old video. Just add another couple billion to his numbers, the logic is the same.
> 
> Helping someone in another country shouldn't mean having to give them your job. Nothing is solved by making someone else poorer or weaker in the process. We have seen what the end result of that policy is with Trump ascending to the presidency. Maybe T2 should learn that as well.
> 
> People are a generally compassionate and giving but not to the point of harming their own self interest long term.


Perhaps I was unclear as to my position. IIRC, the argument in the 90s and early 2000s was that all boats are lifted by a rising tide. I found that argument compelling. I generally support globalization because it gives people in developing nations a chance to thrive. 

At the same time we have to better address the displacement of workers that is the inevitable result of job migration. If we treat those people as roadkill in our relentless pursuit of efficiency, we face a backlash. As you said, that backlash has been expressed as the rise of the alt-right, Brexit and Trump. 

Your last statement is spot on.


----------



## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

olivaw said:


> At the same time we have to better address the displacement of workers that is the inevitable result of job migration.


If what I read that is coming down the curve in the next 10-15 years is true, displacement will be everywhere including volatile countries we have tried to help. We are ill-prepared.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

tygrus said:


> The term riff raff is slang and doesnt refer to race or ethnicity.




on the contrary, the noun riff-raff has nothing to do with slang, which is a colourful street lingo ranging from cheerful teasing to in-joking to mild name-calling.

"riff-raff," on the other hand, means a severe pejorative insult, according to leading dictionaries. It's a form of verbal abuse.

so i'm sticking with my post. Calling strangers "riff-raff" & coupling the insult with "african" is a racist slur. 

now for a look at the dictionaries.

merriam-webster definition of RIFF-RAFF:
- disreputable persons
- rabble
- rubbish

oxford definition of RIFF-RAFF:
- an insulting way of referring to people of low social class or people who are not considered socially acceptable

harper collins definition of RIFF-RAFF:
noun (sometimes functioning as pl)
1. worthless people, esp collectively; rabble
2. (dialect) worthless rubbish

dictionary dot com definition of RIFF-RAFF:
1. people, or a group of people, regarded as disreputable or worthless
2. the lowest classes; rabble
3. trash; rubbish
4. rabble, scum, undesirables, lowlifes, lowest of the low.


.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

tygrus said:


> If what I read that is coming down the curve in the next 10-15 years is true, displacement will be everywhere including volatile countries we have tried to help. We are ill-prepared.


Absolutely. I don't know the answer. It's going to be a challenge faced by every country on earth. Countries like Canada might be able to pay for some form of guarantee basic income with resource exports but more densely populated countries have far fewer resources on a per capita basis.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lonewolf :) said:


> A lot of the churches are promoting immigration in to Canada. They are going against their own doctrine.



there has never been a time, in the history of the Americas, when colonizing churches & other religious organizations did *not* promote immigration to their pioneering new communities.

.


----------



## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

Mukhang pera said:


> bariutt,
> 
> While hp has no need of anyone here defending her - she is quite capable of defending herself - I feel constrained to take issue with your comment hp has a long and venerable history here and has contributed much to the forum. Not all of us agree with her all of the time, which is to be expected in any regular exchange of ideas. But the "ignorant poster" calumny is beyond the pale.


Humble pie should not be making personal attacks on this forum. If she does insist on making personal attacks then she should attack me and leave my children or grandchildren out of this.

I consider her post to be ignorant. She has absolutely no class in my opinion. This will be my last word on the subject as she is not worthy of further effort or attention.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

As I predicted before muslim illegal immigration into European countries benefiting ultra-right parties ..
France *Le Pen SURGES to lead in latest poll as voters serve 'a slap in the face' to establishment*
Netherlands *The far right party is leading election polls in the Netherlands: Will Geert Wilders be prime minister?*
From Rebel media
:


> Have you heard about Geert Wilders?
> 
> He’s the leader of a political party in the Netherlands called the “Party for Freedom”. He’s campaigning in the Dutch elections, which will be held just three weeks from now.
> 
> ...


----------



## 273455 (Jan 12, 2014)

This is the dumbest OP message I've read. It is accepted and proven fact that Canada NEEDS immigrants for ECONOMIC growth. Now what they mean, is economic migrants. i.e. those who will come into the country and bring their own money, and start businesses or work etc and pay TAXES into the system and finance things like healthcare and public pensions etc

There's almost 200k such economic migrants that come, and maybe 10-20k refugees. So this BS mentality of immigrants living off the system needs to stop. Numerically speaking, there's way more "natives" who abuse and live off the the public purse than immigrants etc And I don't mean the real natives of this land (i.e. first nations) You want to criticize abuse of public programs, go for it. But do not make it sound like an immigrant problem when numerically it doesn't even come close to the abuse carried out by "natives".

Shut off immigration to this country and see how quickly economic growth will come to a halt.

I don't envy the position immigrants are in. All the low-paying jobs with no security/benefits etc go to immigrants. And then they get shat on by the right wing PC party nutjobs for stealing jobs that these same nutjobs would never want to do. They all want union positions that pay top dollar with minimal blue-collar education, great benefits and security, and they can just sit back and **** on immigrants who're supposedly stealing jobs. 

You can't have it both ways. And if you try to, you come across looking like the idiotic xenophobic hypocrites that you are. And while you're complaining, those same immigrants that you love to crap on will be starting companies, employing people, and paying more into the public purse than they will ever take out of it. 

The government is not dumb nor blindly altruistic, immigration provides the fuel this economy needs to grow.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Shut off immigration to this country and see how quickly economic growth will come to a halt


 First of all where do you see "quickly economic growth"?! Secondly, no body is talking against independent immigration, we're against illegal immigration and bringing tons of so-called refugees



> There's almost 200k such economic migrants that come


 not 200K, but 250K annually and they are independent immigrant, who can really benefit Canada


----------



## 273455 (Jan 12, 2014)

tygrus said:


> Vetting can be done in about 30 seconds;
> 
> Ask these three questions under a lie detector;
> 
> ...


Nice. I wonder who those questions are aimed at.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Exactly gibor, illegal immigrants and refugees are what is going to be the drag on Canada not the normal legal immigration. However we should accept some refugees as long as it is done properly.


----------



## 273455 (Jan 12, 2014)

gibor365 said:


> First of all where do you see "quickly economic growth"?! Secondly, no body is talking against independent immigration, we're against illegal immigration and bringing tons of so-called refugees
> 
> not 200K, but 250K annually and they are independent immigrant, who can really benefit Canada


TONS?? My questions are: 
1 - do you accept the premise that any refugees should be allowed?
2 - is the opposition to refugees being driven by rational issues, or have to do with ethnic/religious hatred?
3 - why is that that "illegal" immigration has all of a sudden become a hot button issue? 

Trumps parents came as illegal refugees btw. Same for his son in laws grandparents.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Illegal immigration can flood in if a country appears to be all accepting.


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## 273455 (Jan 12, 2014)

new dog said:


> Exactly gibor, illegal immigrants and refugees are what is going to be the drag on Canada not the normal legal immigration. However we should accept some refugees as long as it is done properly.


I think this is a fair expectation. And everyone should expect the government to allow for a free for all that would harm the socioeconomic fabric of this country. But too much of the discussion is xenophobic and not based in fact or logical discussions. 

As well, I think all fair-minded people should really put more effort and thought into figuring out how to prevent refugees from being created to begin with vs bickering over the bandaid solution of letting refugees in.

The conservative party of Tim Hudak a few years ago tried and successfully conflate visible minorities with illegals taking away jobs - that is where this sort of discussion always ends up. Always.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Sorry bstern, you are either uninformed or young and naive. You dont know the issues.

The majority of tax based services are paid by the top 10% wealthiest people and companies in canada. Low skilled people contribute very little to our social programs. They are net takers. 

The majority of Syrian refugees are hold up in apartments across the country collecting assistance and visiting food banks because no thought was given to how they could be worked into the country. Same is going to happen to those border jumpers.

Canada`s existing immigration system is fine tuned to make sure people who come here can make it and have the skills and means and support to do so. If we just dump a bunch of illegal refugees off onto the cities, they will indeed become a burden to the system and its an insult to people who spent years going about it the right way like my wife. 

She had to get special training in her country first to tune her skills to our needs, then spend a year waiting for an agency to bring her in and then 2 years before she could get a PR and then another 5 before her citizenship. She never collected a dime from the system in all those years.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Bstern you are right we should try to stop the conditions that create refugees in the first place. First of all the western bombing of middle eastern nations to create regime change and make money for greedy people needs to stop. Secondly countries who create refugees on their own should have sanctions put on them by the world.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

bstern12 said:


> TONS?? My questions are:
> 1 - do you accept the premise that any refugees should be allowed?
> 2 - is the opposition to refugees being driven by rational issues, or have to do with ethnic/religious hatred?
> 3 - why is that that "illegal" immigration has all of a sudden become a hot button issue?
> ...


1.very limited and up front known nuber of refugees should be allowed and those should be real refugees and no those who coming to get free lunch
2. refugees is big burden on countries economy and security (in case of Syrian ones)
3. illegal immigration becomes hot button because Trump is kicking them out, and before considering 3 oceans around Canada and only one Southern neighbout, who was always prefered by immigrants, Canada just didn't have this issue.

Regarding refugees, Canada has many issues with Canadians already, like affordable housing for low-income...
Seniors and kids have to pay huge money for dentistry, high education is cost big money etc.
Canadian citizens who want to sponsor their parent should wait 5+ years.... my wife waited 5 years in order her mom will be allowed to come here (even though those palestinian muslims were constantly bombing city where she lived), and my wife paying 80K+ in taxes! Now, her mom for 10 years cannot apply for ANY government benefits (except OHIP)... Thus, why should we pay our taxes for bringing here so-called refugees (who is getting all benefits right away) many of whom wanted for ages eliminate us from the Earth?!


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> on the contrary, the noun riff
> 
> Humble words often change meaning over the years about 45 50 years ago when I was a small kid my gramba used the term a fair amount when us kids were playing to describe the way we some times behaved in a joking way. The term years ago was used a lot in a joking way when kids miss behaved. Words are empty containers with meaning we put into them, Not everyone puts the same meaning into words.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

A really good article by James Kirtchick about Trump's "last night in Sweden" claim and subsequent media reaction. And what is actually going on in Sweden. 

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/225910/when-populists-have-a-point


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> o
> so i'm sticking with my post. Calling strangers "riff-raff" & coupling the insult with "african" is a racist slur.
> 
> now for a look at the dictionaries.
> ...


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## 273455 (Jan 12, 2014)

..


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

mordko said:


> A really good article by James Kirtchick about Trump's "last night in Sweden" claim and subsequent media reaction. And what is actually going on in Sweden.
> 
> http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/225910/when-populists-have-a-point


Excellent.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Racist murder in the US. Hopefully they have the death penalty in Kansas.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...AUq9BQNdcVrzyvoa2G50ak3HkH-R7boQ1mmd5xar4&s=1


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Deleted


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Just TODAY -

Islamic center in Toronto burned

Concordia University cleared for bomb threat against muslims, referencing C4, which is likely named after a similarly named white supremacist group.

I've been posting about this for months... that white supremacy is on the rise and that the radicals are picking up steam.

If you sit idly by and let these extremist radicals pick up steam, they will come after all visible minorities, Jews, Muslims, Indians black people, Asians, everyone.

The terrorist group calling itself C4 is probably named after: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Conservative_Citizens


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

SMK said:


> Do you think this imam and PhD student is a minority here? http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/22/police-probe-imans-sermons
> 
> What about the MULTIPLE rallies in Canadian universities threatening and harassing Jewish students? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...f-anti-semitism-at-student-union-meeting.html


Very good! “There is no place for someone who believes that Jews are ‘filth’ to deliver lectures or grade assignments at a Canadian university. We hope that this action by Ryerson administration will serve as a turning point in what has been a difficult year for Jewish students on that campus, and commend the administration for dealing with this serious matter.” http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/0...-imam-whose-teachings-are-under-investigation

On university campuses, it's mostly Jewish students that are threatened and harassed.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I thought we needed a little humour in this discussion.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Interesting report on Sweden and the mess they created https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1OxgHYTUbw


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I knew about this for a long time. Some on this forum need to take a vacation there to these areas and be educated, as well as many others on the left.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The guy could have made it a little believable if he hired some people in masks to follow him while making threatening gestures.

His video shows him getting into his car with nobody anywhere near them. The 'following" police turn into a parking lot the other way.

On the BS meter, we will give this the Golden Cow Patty award.

https://twitter.com/Timcast?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

The video was nothing and wouldn't change anyones mind but the no go zones are just that.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> I've been posting about this for months... that white supremacy is on the rise and that the radicals are picking up steam.
> 
> If you sit idly by and let these extremist radicals pick up steam, they will come after all visible minorities, Jews, Muslims, Indians black people, Asians, everyone.
> 
> The terrorist group calling itself C4 is probably named after: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Conservative_Citizens


And attacks against Jews seem to be picking up as well, especially in the USA.

This is the effect of unleashing the bottled up racists & white supremacists, with the election of Trump & Bannon. The same alt-right crowd (white nationalists) are coming after all non-"old stock" people and they are going to go after everyone who isn't "old stock". In the US, their targets are hispanic, black, and muslim people for now. With the uptick in antisemitic incidents, I think my fear of it spreading to Jews is already being realized.

Once they gain enough momentum, the white nationalists / supremacists will also go after white people who are sympathetic to immigration and non-white-European races. This is what happened in Britain, when Jo Cox (British member of parliament) was murdered by a right wing extremist.

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/who-was-jo-cox/487436/

Jo Cox championed the rights of refugees and she was murdered by a white supremacist / neo nazi because of it.

I'll say it again: anti-immigrant, or anti-muslim sentiment is an affront to all Canadians because it is an insult to all of us with immigrant heritage. Which is all of us, except the native peoples.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Attacks against Jews are picking up worldwide, including Canada, France, Germany UK and US. The perpetrators are Islamists, the far left and white supremacists. The cowards tend to target children, the dead people/graves and, when they have strength in numbers, like at Ryerson or McGill, they target Jewish students. Some of the recent bomb threats in the US against Jewish children and schools apparently originated abroad.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordo, and you really think it's islamists who are doing the antisemitic attacks in the US, like painting swastikas or overturning gravestones?

I agree there's online hatred from islamists, but when it comes to physical antisemitic attacks in the US... it's not muslims. All muslims in America are keeping a low profile. It's the alt-right, the white supremacists, who are attacking Jews in the USA -- in my opinion.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Looking at the French situation, I am thinking there are two options for the local Jewish community to survive:

1. Arm.
2. Failing that, France should follow Morocco's example. It's the only N African country which still has some Jews. They are protected by plain clothes officers around the clock.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> mordo, and you really think it's islamists who are doing the antisemitic attacks in the US, like painting swastikas or overturning gravestones?
> 
> I agree there's online hatred from islamists, but when it comes to physical antisemitic attacks in the US... it's not muslims. All muslims in America are keeping a low profile. It's the alt-right, the white supremacists, who are attacking Jews in the USA -- in my opinion.


I don't know about US. I know for a fact what's going on in Canadian mosques.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

By the way, one of the organizers of the next women's march against Trump already murdered several Jews and got into the US by using fraud. Ain't it cool?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Who is this person?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

http://nypost.com/2017/02/25/the-next-womens-march-is-co-organized-by-a-terrorist/

Apparently they are a bit short of organizers so had to do with a Jew murderer.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

She sounds like trouble. But mordko, my point was that white supremacists are gaining steam in America, attacking everyone including Jews.

Here again is the Anti-Defamation League commenting on the Alt Right. A reminder that ADL is a Jewish organization that fights antisemitism
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/alt-right-a-primer-about-the.html



> People who identify with the Alt Right regard mainstream or traditional conservatives as weak and impotent, largely because they do not sufficiently support racism and anti-Semitism. Alt Righters frequently disparage the conservative movement by using the derogatory term “cuckservative,” popularized in 2015. The term “cuckservative,” a com*bi*na*tion of “con*ser*v*a*tive” and *“cuck*old,” is used by white supremacists to describe a white Chris*t*ian con*ser*v*a*tive who pro*motes the inter*ests of Jews and non-whites* over those of whites.
> . . .
> A number of Alt Righters are also blatantly anti-Semitic and blame Jews for allegedly promoting anti-white policies such as immigration and diversity. Alt Righters mock conservative support of Israel as anti-white. The woman behind the Alt Right Twitter handle recently wrote, “I support ALL Jews living in Israel or a defined area.”


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

’They _[alt-right]_ are anti-Semitic, they know what they’re doing is anti-Semitic, but they think it's funny.‘

—Marilyn Mayo, research fellow, ADL Center on Extremism, from an interview with The Toronto Star


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

james4beach said:


> ’They _[alt-right]_ are anti-Semitic, they know what they’re doing is anti-Semitic, but they think it's funny.‘
> 
> —Marilyn Mayo, research fellow, ADL Center on Extremism, from an interview with The Toronto Star


That's propaganda and stereotyping. In fact its a dishonest smear. There are many alt-right figures who are not anti-semitic including
Steve Bannon and Joel Pollak,a Jew who is an editor for Breitbart . Breitbart is heavily pro-Israel. They even have a Jerusalem section of
there website. Many conservatives,Christians and figures on the right are pro-Israel.



More fake news from someone who has spread it before.

Here is a typical pro-Israel article from Breibart.
http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/...led-with-image-of-assassinated-terror-leader/



> Turning to psychological warfare, Hezbollah recently erected a giant sign on the Israel-Lebanon border with images of “Hezbollah heroes” alongside the threatening inscription: “This account is not settled.”
> The sign included a photo of Imad Mughniyeh, who was assassinated in a car bombing in Damascus nearly a decade ago, Hebrew news site nrg said. The Shi’ite group and foreign media said Israel was responsible for the bombing.


To label someone a racist or bigot or anti-semite as if that is all they are is sometimes reductionist,bumper-sticker thinking. It is often politically correct name calling. This facile labeling reduces the complexity that is
a human being to a simple caricature.

Not all criticism of Jews or any other group is abnormal or extreme.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

wraphter said:


> That's propaganda and stereotyping. In fact its a dishonest smear. There are many alt-right figures who are not anti-semitic including
> Steve Bannon and Joel Pollak,a Jew who is an editor for Breitbart . Breitbart is heavily pro-Israel. They even have a Jerusalem section of
> there website. Many conservatives,Christians and figures on the right are pro-Israel.
> 
> ...


Maybe james gonna tell that Pamela Geller is antisemitic too?!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The presence of a few normal people in the group doesn't change the fact the alt-right is fundamentally a white supremacist movement.

It also doesn't mean every alt-right supporter shares those beliefs. But the alt right emerged from white supremacist circles -- you should at least read and learn where it came from.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> mordo, and you really think it's islamists who are doing the antisemitic attacks in the US, like painting swastikas or overturning gravestones?
> 
> I agree there's online hatred from islamists, but when it comes to physical antisemitic attacks in the US... it's not muslims. All muslims in America are keeping a low profile. It's the alt-right, the white supremacists, who are attacking Jews in the USA -- in my opinion.


Einstein: Get your facts straight for once-Jews are leaving France by the thousands and it isn't because of white supremacists.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Once again James white supremacists are already citizens on the fringe and basically powerless, so don't wake them up and give them power. Unfortunately the left's stupid islamic and illegal immigration stance has woke them up and gave them power and now the Jews you talk about face the islamists and the white supremacists.

A small amount of thinking by the left could have easily avoided this entire mess. Instead the left got all tolerant and intolerant at the same time and created a nightmare.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor365 said:


> Maybe james gonna tell that Pamela Geller is antisemitic too?!


No, but she is a bigot who spreads conspiracies and makes common cause with the likes of Breivik.

I note how you ignored the following part of the quote: "Not all criticism of Jews or any other group is abnormal or extreme". 

Are you ok with racism? Genuine question.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> She sounds like trouble. But mordko, my point was that white supremacists are gaining steam in America, attacking everyone including Jews.
> 
> Here again is the Anti-Defamation League commenting on the Alt Right. A reminder that ADL is a Jewish organization that fights antisemitism
> http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/alt-right-a-primer-about-the.html


I am not sure we have enough data to say it conclusively but the above is probably true. The difficulty here is that there were thousands of attacks on Jews in the US during the Obama administration, and Obama very deliberately made an effort to avoid defending Jews or even naming them as the target. There were attacks on blacks and other minorities as well. And the perpetrators are not just white supremacists and Alt Right but also the likes of Nation of Islam.

So it's hard to tell if white supremacists are gaining ground compared to the previous 8 years but it's likely true. 

And alt-right are not all anti-Semitic but they are all bigots, at least the latest reincarnation of the amorphous "alt-right". Like who would want to associate himself with a group full of swastika brandishing zieg heiling cretins?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Still, one has to question the motives of some in the media who are all of a sudden interested in attacks against Jews. Like bomb threats and destroyed gravestones are nothing new. 

Why wasn't this ever reported by major news outlets? http://www.jweekly.com/2015/07/06/business-as-usual-at-foster-city-jcc-after-bomb-scare/


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Here is an article on this subject. It looks like there has been a small uptick in Antisemitic attacks in the US, which isn't all that different from Europe. 

https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/03/...emitic-incidents-under-obama-largely-ignored/


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

james4beach said:


> I agree there's online hatred from islamists, but when it comes to physical antisemitic attacks in the US... it's not muslims. All muslims in America are keeping a low profile. It's the alt-right, the white supremacists, who are attacking Jews in the USA -- in my opinion.


There's way more than online hatred from Islamists. How can you speak for "all Muslims" or anyone else for that matter? 

You continue to give your undivided attention to the alt-right and white supremacists. You ignore the jihadists, the ultra left, which include academics, and on and on.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I note how you ignored the following part of the quote: "Not all criticism of Jews or any other group is abnormal or extreme".
> 
> Are you ok with racism? Genuine question.


 I ignored it because it's irrelevant and I'm not OK with racism in real sense of this term...



> No, but she is a bigot who spreads conspiracies and makes common cause with the likes of Breivik.


 I don't think so...

and what do you think about Ezra Levant and Rebel media in general? Racist? Anti-semitic? Bigots?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> You continue to give your undivided attention to the alt-right and white supremacists. You ignore the jihadists, the ultra left, which include academics, and on and on.


 As a Jew, I'm much more scared from jihadists and ultra left.... but probably james knows better layful:


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

james4beach said:


> She sounds like trouble.


And you sound like you're not afraid of "militant feminists" either. What part of Rasmea Yousef Odeh's story just "sounds" like trouble to you? She's a fraud and a convicted terrorist of 2 bombings that killed 2 young students and injured several.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Gibor no one ever seems to get the point that white supremacists are already here every day of the year and that won't change. What we can do is keep it on the fringe, which has been very successful, until the left decided to wake them up. Also as an added bonus we get to import jihadists, make it worse and give white supremacists something to rally around.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

gibor365 said:


> As a Jew, I'm much more scared from jihadists and ultra left.... but probably james knows better layful:


I'm afraid of James and friends much more for fueling hate.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

new dog said:


> Gibor no one ever seems to get the point that white supremacists are already here every day of the year and that won't change. What we can do is keep it on the fringe, which has been very successful, until the left decided to wake them up. Also as an added bonus we get to import jihadists, make it worse and give white supremacists something to rally around.


Yeap, i know, I was also talking about it... this is the reason that ultra-right in Europe woke up and heading to form the government....

Obviouslly, I would be against policy of bringing "white supremacists" refugees, but they are already here and citizens, so we cannot do much about it, but I'm compeltely against bringing into country jihadists-refugees


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Last time I checked, white supremacists don't have a religion or religious ideology guiding them. They are more joke than anything.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor365 said:


> I ignored it because it's irrelevant and I'm not OK with racism in real sense of this term...
> 
> I don't think so...
> 
> and what do you think about Ezra Levant and Rebel media in general? Racist? Anti-semitic? Bigots?


No, and he has done some good stuff, but sometimes he should think before he opens his mouth.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

gibor365 said:


> Yeap, i know, I was also talking about it... this is the reason that ultra-right in Europe woke up and heading to form the government....
> 
> Obviouslly, I would be against policy of bringing "white supremacists" refugees, but they are already here and citizens, so we cannot do much about it, but I'm compeltely against bringing into country jihadists-refugees


For some reason the left on this forum do not get this ridiculously simple point.

It is so bad that the other day someone at work said we are under attack by some muslims because of the pushback. So it is better to say nothing as we let them in so they don't do anything to us. What kind of logic is that, only on the left and they are supposed to be educated.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

tygrus said:


> Last time I checked, white supremacists don't have a religion or religious ideology guiding them. They are more joke than anything.


Not sure in what way Neo-nazis and white supremacists are "funny". Probably not to the people murdered in the Quebec City mosque or the two Indian guys who got shot last week. Not to the small US town which has been under attack from the Alt right. And we don't know for certain whether Islamists or white supremacists are behind the wave of bomb threats against Jewish schools and grave damage, but you still have a very peculiar sense of humour.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

It's a racial and hateful ideology that guides white supremacists, definitely nothing funny about that and people like Dylann Roof.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

james4beach said:


> It's the alt-right, the white supremacists, who are attacking Jews in the USA -- in my opinion.


Some may very well be, but so far those arrested for some of the bomb threats in the US and Concordia University have not been.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^true. Like this guy who was sending bomb threats to Jewish community centres. http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-accuse...-community-centers-arrested/story?id=45884069

Hard to pin it on Trump or alt right. Besides being black, his Tweets indicate that the guy is a liberal come socialist. Berne Sanders supporter.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

This story of the Jewish community centre bomb threats was really weird. No one would have guessed this one.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

new dog said:


> This story of the Jewish community centre bomb threats was really weird. No one would have guessed this one.


What you call "weird" is simply novel. The calls may be a novel form of intimidation, but the context around them is not. American Jews are victims of more reported hate crimes than any other group in the United States, and have been subject to the majority of religiously motivated offenses every year since 1995, when the FBI first started reporting these statistics. The phone calls may not result in violence, but they contribute to an atmosphere of anti-Semitism already well-established in the United States. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/jewish-community-center-bomb-threats/517299/


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

btw, *ANTI-SEMITIC INCIDENTS REACH ALL-TIME HIGH IN CANADA*
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Anti-Semitic-incidents-reach-all-time-high-in-Canada-405879


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