# Benefits of converting RRSP to RRIF during early retirement (45)



## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

Hi there,

I wanted to get opinions regarding early retirement and converting RRSPs to RRIFs. 

Let's say someone is fortunate enough to retire in their mid-40's and has grown their RRSP account to $600,000. Assuming there is no pension, TFSA's are maxed out and there is also a non-reg investment account, should they convert their RRSP to a RRIF? Let's also assume the investments are not locked in (back end loaded mutual funds), they are either stocks or ETF's.

I believe there are many pros and little cons to converting. The main benefit is tax planning. 

If the account is not converted and no new money is deposited or withdrawn, at a reasonable return of 6%, the portfolio will grow to over $2.5 million by age 71, when mandatory withdrawals kick in. At that time, the minimum withdrawal rate is 5.28% for the first year, or about $132,000. This will result in a lot of taxation.

If, on the other hand, if the RRSP is converted into a RRIF at age 45 and smaller withdrawals (say $35K) are made annually, very little, if any taxes are paid.

Using the following tax calculator: w.w.w.taxtips.ca/calculators/rrsp-rrif/rrsp-rrif-withdrawal-calculator.htm (sorry first post so I can't share links. remove . from www)
a 6% return with an annual $35K drawdown will deplete the account by age 74. A 7% return, will deplete by age 85. Most if not all of the funds will be tax free.

The other benefits are as follows:
- RRSP withdrawals are typically charged a fee of $50, no fee to withdrawal from RRIF.
- RRSP withdrawals have withholding taxes, RRIF only have withholding taxes after the minimum.
- If the investor dies prematurely, taxation on the RRSP is much less because some or most will have already been withdrawn.
- I believe RRIF withdrawals can be automated or self service through many online brokers. RRSP withdrawals are a manual process where you need to visit the bank or call in.

Cons:
- you will lose tax free growth when you withdrawal. 

To me it's a no brainer, to convert. thoughts?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

FIRE, welcome to CMF.

There is a lot of discussion out there about the pros & cons of melting down your RRSP early. It depends very much on individual circumstances and the multi-year assumptions you make about each income stream. 

A couple of things I wonder about (you may have already considered them):
- If you use up your RRSP by age 74, what do you plan to live on after that? You mention your non-reg account, what will it have grown to and what tax liability will it have. Your CPP is likely to be less than today's avg $692/month. OAS doesn't add much and GIS is not assured.
- If your RRSP grows only at 4% /yr in real terms it will be $1.6MM and initial w/d today would be $7k/mo. That's not too much these days if you find yourself in a retirement community or assisted living at some point.
- Does asset volatility in your early RRIF create longevity risk. For example, equity exposure could cause a drop in value in some years while the RRIF still requires you to crystalize and withdraw a minimum amount.


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## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> FIRE, welcome to CMF.
> 
> There is a lot of discussion out there about the pros & cons of melting down your RRSP early. It depends very much on individual circumstances and the multi-year assumptions you make about each income stream.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Non-Reg is currently about $2 million. The idea of melting down the RRSP is not to live off, but to transfer to non-reg or TFSA to minimize taxes. Most investments (all accounts) are a combination of Canadian Couch Potato and High yielding dividend Canadian Blue chips like the top 5 banks.


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

Another consideration, beyond the issues raised by OMO: Converting an RSP is not a black-or-white question. You can convert only a portion of it to a RRIF. So you can certainly hedge your bets by keeping a chunk in the RSP where you are not obligated to make withdrawals.
It is tempting to plan to withdraw from RSPs/RIFs up to the first (or even second) tax bracket in otherwise zero or low-income years before 65 or 72. But assessing whether that is smart is impossible to do without knowing quite a bit more about the OP's particular situation -- other sources of savings, income, tax liability, as well as partners/dependents.
Edit added after OP's last response: Given your substantial assets, the strategy does look more like a no-brainer. 
But $2M in non-reg assets is presumably spinning off $50-$75K a year in dividends. Adding income to that is going to attract higher than minimum tax.


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## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

fireseeker said:


> Another consideration, beyond the issues raised by OMO: Converting an RSP is not a black-or-white question. You can convert only a portion of it to a RRIF. So you can certainly hedge your bets by keeping a chunk in the RSP where you are not obligated to make withdrawals.
> It is tempting to plan to withdraw from RSPs/RIFs up to the first (or even second) tax bracket in otherwise zero or low-income years before 65 or 72. But assessing whether that is smart is impossible to do without knowing quite a bit more about the OP's particular situation -- other sources of savings, income, tax liability, as well as partners/dependents.
> Edit added after OP's last response: Given your substantial assets, the strategy does look more like a no-brainer.
> But $2M in non-reg assets is presumably spinning off $50-$75K a year in dividends. Adding income to that is going to attract higher than minimum tax.


Thanks fireseeker, you are right about the dividends, but because they are mostly Canadian, they are tax favourable and it is split jointly with a spouse. Using the following tax calculator: w.w.w.taxtips.ca/calculators/basic/basic-tax-calculator.htm

Putting $35K for Employment / other income from the RRIF withdrawal and $35K ($70K / 2) into dividends, only results in $6100 in taxes in Ontario. I can even have another $30K in Capital Gains giving a total income of $100K and still pay less than 12% in taxes.

I guess this post could belong in the tax sub-form or the retirement sub-forum.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

fire161007 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Non-Reg is currently about $2 million. The idea of melting down the RRSP is not to live off, but to transfer to non-reg or TFSA to minimize taxes. Most investments (all accounts) are a combination of Canadian Couch Potato and High yielding dividend Canadian Blue chips like the top 5 banks.


Ok, makes more sense then. Estate plans may have some sway. We faced the same 'problem' but have fewer years until 72. We chose instead to keep the RRSP's intact for our later (after 71) years while living off the nonregistered assets as we crystalize and gift them away by 71. Otherwise we'd have been adding RRIF income to our non-registered income.


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## hboy54 (Sep 16, 2016)

Hi:

Your numbers and issues are very comparable to my situation, so I look forward to the discussion. 

In fact, I have as we speak been doing analysis on 2018's projected numbers, including a sensitivity analysis as to how to use up a charitable donation made this year. A surprising thing I learned today is that a charitable donation does not affect AMT.

Speaking of AMT, I very much have an AMT problem. It bit in 2015, 2016, and will in 2018. Got some back in 2017.

One conclusion I have reached is that I need to move some (all?) of the interest expense to my wife over time as she has regular fully taxed income by way of a pension. All I have is dividends and capital gains so the AMT is on me like a fly on stink. Another conclusion, it will hurt relatively less for me to take some RRSP every year, because I am being effectively taxed via the AMT as if I am anyhow.

The general idea though, as Steve41 and his RRIFMetric software makes clear is that it isn't the RRIF tax rate that matters decades down the road, it is the actual number of dollars that you get to keep over your lifetime. If you do the study, it turns out that very often you make so much money on the loan from the government inside your RRSP, that all this extra money completely overwhelms the high taxation rate, leaving more dollars in your pocket over your lifetime, even if you find your tax bill to be $40,000 or $50,000 at age 72.

Given the above paragraph, and all that is unknowable about the future in taxation developments and investment returns, my plan is to aim to pay about $10,000 tax annually, but avoid the AMT. So I need to do some combination of increase RRSP withdrawls, reduce dividends, reduce realized capital gains, and reduce interest expense to achieve this. Probably an annual low 5 figure charitable stock donation is also a piece of the puzzle.

Last, a private foundation may be something to consider, as we have a good surplus that might well become a very good surplus if I continue to invest successfully and manage to last another 35 years or so.

hboy54


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

OP, you may review thread at http://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/s...-retirement-plan-would-like-to-read-feedbacks!
The major part of my retirement plan was to convert RRSPs to RRIFs. imo, the biggest advantage is to convert first SRRSP to SRRIF as there is no attribution rule for Spousal accounts on minimum withdrawals. So, if 2nd spouse still working, he/she can continue contributing to SRRSP (in our case , my wife is still working) and money from min RRIF can be used to max up TFSA on annual basis. I was planning to convert SRRSP to SRRIF this years and RRSP to RRIF next year, but because of EI income I received this year, decided to postpone conversion by 1 year.
Currently we have around 850K in registered accounts (SRRSP, 2 RRSPs, 2 LIRAs, 2 TFSAs) and 720K in non-reg. Also my wife has DB pension (that she can use in 12 years). No debt. Own medium detached home in Mississauga (gonna downsize at some point).
The plan is to deplete registered accounts (exp obviously TFSAs) bu withdrawing required minimum w/o paying tax or paying the lowest bracket. I also plan to start CPP and OAS ASAP , again , in order not switch to higher tax bracket. 
Currently


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## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

hboy54 said:


> Hi:
> 
> The general idea though, as Steve41 and his RRIFMetric software makes clear is that it isn't the RRIF tax rate that matters decades down the road, it is the actual number of dollars that you get to keep over your lifetime. If you do the study, it turns out that very often you make so much money on the loan from the government inside your RRSP, that all this extra money completely overwhelms the high taxation rate, leaving more dollars in your pocket over your lifetime, even if you find your tax bill to be $40,000 or $50,000 at age 72.


Wow. That is quite the revelation. I'd like to see the math behind that. That is the one area that I was unsure of. Do you have more details based on the above situation?


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## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

gibor365 said:


> OP, you may review thread at http://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/s...-retirement-plan-would-like-to-read-feedbacks!
> The major part of my retirement plan was to convert RRSPs to RRIFs. imo, the biggest advantage is to convert first SRRSP to SRRIF as there is no attribution rule for Spousal accounts on minimum withdrawals. So, if 2nd spouse still working, he/she can continue contributing to SRRSP (in our case , my wife is still working) and money from min RRIF can be used to max up TFSA on annual basis. I was planning to convert SRRSP to SRRIF this years and RRSP to RRIF next year, but because of EI income I received this year, decided to postpone conversion by 1 year.
> Currently we have around 850K in registered accounts (SRRSP, 2 RRSPs, 2 LIRAs, 2 TFSAs) and 720K in non-reg. Also my wife has DB pension (that she can use in 12 years). No debt. Own medium detached home in Mississauga (gonna downsize at some point).
> The plan is to deplete registered accounts (exp obviously TFSAs) bu withdrawing required minimum w/o paying tax or paying the lowest bracket. I also plan to start CPP and OAS ASAP , again , in order not switch to higher tax bracket.
> Currently


Thanks, in our case, my spouse, who is about the same age (mid-40s) will work another 2 years. Both our RRSP's are fully maxed and are roughly the same value, so SRRSP don't apply. TFSA's are also maxed.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

fire161007 said:


> ... The other benefits are as follows:
> - RRSP withdrawals are typically charged a fee of $50, no fee to withdrawal from RRIF.
> - RRSP withdrawals have withholding taxes, RRIF only have withholding taxes after the minimum. ...


Not sure if it matters to you but I recall others posting that one of the discount brokers (RBC?) does not have an RRSP withdrawal fee.
With the amounts you are talking - assuming you are okay with their other services, likely they'd rebate any fees to transfer over to their brokerage.

The withholding tax would still be in play but being able to fine tune withdrawals as well as make them in late December to minimise the turn around time for any withholding tax rebates from filing the annual tax return might be attractive.




fire161007 said:


> Thanks, in our case, my spouse, who is about the same age (mid-40s) will work another 2 years. Both our RRSP's are fully maxed and are roughly the same value, so SRRSP don't apply. TFSA's are also maxed.


So there won't be a period where one is working while the other is retired?
Presumably as well, the "no pensions" means the aim is for similar RRIF withdrawals from each?


Since the TFSAs are maxed - is there a plan to slow down or reduce the rate that the NR account income drives up the taxes being paid on the RRIF withdrawals, which as I understand it, are increasing on a schedule?


Cheers


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Fire, given your circumstances, your plan makes sense to me. 

I’m in a somewhat similar situation, although my total RRSP holdings between myself and my wife are somewhat smaller, as I have 2 DB pensions, and my wife has been mostly a stay at home mom. I’m planning to retire in about 5 years at age 55, and for the first 10 years, my taxable income could be quite low if I wanted it to be, but I plan to use those early retirement years to gradually withdraw most of our RRSP money at lower tax rates, because once I hit 65 to 70, company and government pensions will greatly drive up my marginal tax rate.

Since my wife's taxable income is already very low, we converted her RRSP to a RRIF last year and have started the draw-down process for her.


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## fire161007 (Jun 6, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> So there won't be a period where one is working while the other is retired?
> Presumably as well, the "no pensions" means the aim is for similar RRIF withdrawals from each?
> 
> 
> ...


I am already retired, and my spouse will be working the next 2 years, however both of our RRSP's are maxed and neither of us have a pension. I don't think SRRSP applies, as I have no contribution room.

I'm not sure I understand your last question. The plan is to contribute the max to TFSA until death. TFSA should be the last accounts to be drawn down on, so if any is left, it can be inherited tax free to our kids.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> Not sure if it matters to you but I recall others posting that one of the discount brokers (RBC?) does not have an RRSP withdrawal fee.
> With the amounts you are talking - assuming you are okay with their other services, likely they'd rebate any fees to transfer over to their brokerage.


There is no reason to switch brokerages. All brokerages will allow RRSP holder to convert all or part of an RRSP to a RRIF. The withdrawals are then made at no cost from RRIF. Best to keep the RRIF amount to just what you need for withdrawals otherwise you may have to withdraw more than you wish (Minimum Withdrawal Rtae). If I recall correctly, we decided that adding about $5k pa to our annual income would still keep us below the maximum tax bracket, so we converted say 5X $5k to a RRIF and drew that down. 

No sense in collapsing RRSP if you already have taxable income from other sources that is close to the max tax bracket.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

fire161007 said:


> I am already retired, and my spouse will be working the next 2 years, however both of our RRSP's are maxed and neither of us have a pension. I don't think SRRSP applies, as I have no contribution room ...


I thought without a pension you might earn some more RRSP contribution room ... but where maxed, neither flavour of RRSP will help.




fire161007 said:


> ... I'm not sure I understand your last question. The plan is to contribute the max to TFSA until death. TFSA should be the last accounts to be drawn down on, so if any is left, it can be inherited tax free to our kids.


Where one's aim is to draw down the large RRSP / RRIF ... I am thinking more than the annual TFSA allotment plus living expenses will be taken from the RRIF / RRSP. Whatever is the excess amount, should it pay income - is going to drive up the rate the next round of withdrawals happen at.

Some aim for no income or CG / tax deferred income to slow the income growth.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

agent99 said:


> There is no reason to switch brokerages. All brokerages will allow RRSP holder to convert all or part of an RRSP to a RRIF ...


YMMV as I have seen other posts where the RRIF schedules don't fit the plan so that switching brokers to drop the RRSP withdrawal fee was seen as a benefit.




agent99 said:


> ... No sense in collapsing RRSP if you already have taxable income from other sources that is close to the max tax bracket.


Not sure what this is related to ... unless it's my question about the growing NR account's potential for increase taxable income?


Cheers


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Since my wife's taxable income is already very low, we converted her RRSP to a RRIF last year and have started the draw-down process for her.


Don't you have SRRSP? It would be a bog advantage, because of no attribution rules on Spousal accounts for minimum withdrawals. And you can have same time SRRSP and SRRIF, thus you spouse can withdraw minimum and you can reinvest it into SRRSP


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> YMMV as I have seen other posts where the RRIF schedules don't fit the plan so that switching brokers to drop the RRSP withdrawal fee was seen as a benefit.


Don't know what you mean. There is no schedule for RRIFs. You draw whatever you wish so long as it is equal or more than the MWR. Can be a single annual withdrawal, monthly/quarterly withdrawals, etc. Can't think of any reason not to switch from RRSP to RRIF if you wish to make withdrawals. It has added benefit in that RRIF withdrawals are considered pension income for those over 65 and therefore allow you to obtain a pension tax credit on your tax return ($2000 max)


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I mean the minimum annual withdrawal amounts that is partly based on the FMV of the RRIF at the beginning of the year.

It won't affect me but others have posted they wanted to the ability to go as low as zero in a particular year - which AFAICT, is only allowed in the year the RRIF is setup.
As soon as one decides a RRIF is not the way to go for a while - the ability to withdraw from an RRSP without a withdrawal fee would seem to be a priority IMO.


Interestingly, unlike the RRSP/RRIF - LIFs and LRIFs also have a maximum annual withdrawal amounts.


Cheers


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

hboy54 said:


> The general idea though, as Steve41 and his RRIFMetric software makes clear is that it isn't the RRIF tax rate that matters decades down the road, it is the actual number of dollars that you get to keep over your lifetime. If you do the study, it turns out that very often you make so much money on the loan from the government inside your RRSP, that all this extra money completely overwhelms the high taxation rate, leaving more dollars in your pocket over your lifetime, even if you find your tax bill to be $40,000 or $50,000 at age 72.


Yes another vote for steve41. He is no longer a regular poster here. But you should PM him and see if he recommends a consultant or the software. The consultant will be more expensive but avoids the learning curve. Because you have all the options open at this point, you will get maximum value from his automated approach. Plus your are actually living the dream now, not just planning for a distant retirement date.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

gibor365 said:


> Don't you have SRRSP? It would be a bog advantage, because of no attribution rules on Spousal accounts for minimum withdrawals. And you can have same time SRRSP and SRRIF, thus you spouse can withdraw minimum and you can reinvest it into SRRSP


Thanks Gibor, I am aware of the minimum spousal RRIF withdrawal with no attribution rule, thanks to you from previous posts. 

My wife and I each have our own individual RRSP, plus we have a spousal RRSP (I contribute, and she withdraws). For now, she is drawing down more than the minimum amount on her own RRSP, which has been converted to a RRIF. This will last her until I retire. Meanwhile I am continuing to annually max out the spousal contributions so we can income split as much as possible in retirement. A few years down the road, I will have to stop doing spousal RRSP contributions for a couple years before she can start taking anything more than the minimum amount from it.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Thanks Gibor, I am aware of the minimum spousal RRIF withdrawal with no attribution rule, thanks to you from previous posts.


 No problem . CRA sets the rules and we should learn how to play with those rules with possible benefits


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We left ours. Decided not to draw down. One good thing is that it is my understanding that I do not have to draw down/convert to RIF until my spouse turns 71. 

Not certain if it was the best thing to do however we have both been in high tax brackets so it make little sense to bring anything into income before we absolutely have to. We will probably defer my spouses OAP until she reaches 70.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

"Non-Reg is currently about $2 million."

You are set right there 

As for melting down the RRSP - I would simply start taking out what you can now and avoid the RRIF altogether, this way, you can wind things down on your own terms over time and not be forced into a minimum.

-RRSP withdrawals have withholding taxes, RRIF only have withholding taxes after the minimum. _Yes, but you still pay tax on the RRIF withdrawals_ - it's only the financial institution "withholds" to assure taxes are paid - it's not like a lump sum is retained by the bank and you pay CRA on top of that. But I suspect you know that. 

-If the investor dies prematurely, taxation on the RRSP is much less because some or most will have already been withdrawn. Agree. _Good reason to draw down.
_

That said, it sounds like you've thought things through.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> "Non-Reg is currently about $2 million."
> 
> You are set right there
> 
> ...


It's all depends on specific situation. I personally see few advantages of converting to RRIFs and don;t see disadvantages:
- no attribution rules on SRRIF, there are on SRRSP
- there is withdrawal fee on RRSP, there are none on RRIF
- if you withdraw from RRSP at the beginning of the year, you charged withholding tax and even though you get it next year, you lose potential income from this tax (I personally cannot fill out taxes before Apr as I need to wait to slip from US brokerage)


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

ian said:


> One good thing is that it is my understanding that I do not have to draw down/convert to RIF until my spouse turns 71.


You have to convert to RRIF when you turn 71. But you can use the younger spouses age to determine the minimum withdrawal rate. To quote RBC: "RRSP must be converted to a RRIF, annuity, or paid out in a lump sum by the end of the calendar year that you turn age 71."


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Forgot about that part. I have a few years to go prior to turning 71 but the plan at this point will be the same. Use my spouses age to delay bringing any money down into the taxable bucket.


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## jdc (Feb 1, 2016)

Don't forget about the pension income deduction. RRIF withdrawals qualify for the deduction, so if you have no other qualifying pension income (CCP and OAS are not), it would be useful to create a smallish RRIF and withdraw $2000 per year tax free for the seven years (age 65 to 71 inclusive).


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Might lose GIS when having to draw money out of RRIF from ages 64 - 71


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

There is also the age deduction/credit which disappears quickly with income. Best to do a proforma.


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## Karlhungus (Oct 4, 2013)

Isnt the other benefit to converting to a RRIF is that you can split RRIF income with spouse but not RRSP income?


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Karlhungus said:


> you can split RRIF income with spouse but not RRSP income?


Yes, this is true, but there is an age requirement. The (IIRC) recipient has to be over 65 for the income split to work. In early retirement, ~45-50 this is definitely not possible.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

ian said:


> Use my spouses age to delay bringing any money down into the taxable bucket.


The spouse's age just reduces the minimum amount you must withdraw at age 71.

The only way the spouse gets any income is if you have set up a spousal RRSP that you convert to a RRIF.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

gardner said:


> Yes, this is true, but there is an age requirement. The (IIRC) recipient has to be over 65 for the income split to work. In early retirement, ~45-50 this is definitely not possible.


I am not sure that the recipient has to be over 65. The taxpayer (transferor?) does. Following quote confirms this:



> *Pension Splitting*
> As of January 1, 2007 individuals who are 65 years of age or older can allocate for tax purposes up to a maximum of 50% of the annual income received from a lifetime annuity, registered pension plan, RRSP annuity, registered retirement income fund (RRIF) or deferred profit sharing plan annuity to a spouse (or common-law partner or same-sex partner). Although the actual income is still received by the individual, the splitting for tax purposes is done via the tax return. The receiving spouse is not required to be 65 years of age or older to receive an allocation, and the amount allocated can be changed each year for the benefit of the couple. This is great news for senior couples.


And Re KCowans post. The recipient spouse does not actually get any income, but his/her tax return will have the split amount added to their income for tax purposes and they will therefore pay more tax while transferor pays less. 

We do this every year. We are both in same tax bracket, so no benefit there, but it does help keep us both just outside OAS clawback and possibly reduces clawback of old age allowance.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

agent99 said:


> I am not sure that the recipient has to be over 65.


Sorry, yes. I was working from memory -- I knew one of the parties has to be 65. It is the transferer (source) not the recipient.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

hboy54 said:


> The general idea though, as Steve41 and his RRIFMetric software makes clear is that it isn't the RRIF tax rate that matters decades down the road, it is the actual number of dollars that you get to keep over your lifetime.





kcowan said:


> Yes another vote for steve41. He is no longer a regular poster here. But you should PM him and see if he recommends a consultant or the software. The consultant will be more expensive but avoids the learning curve. Because you have all the options open at this point, you will get maximum value from his automated approach. Plus your are actually living the dream now, not just planning for a distant retirement date.


Just a note in passing that Steve Salter is not doing well and has entered a hospice, according to his daughter.


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## P_I (Dec 2, 2011)

kcowan said:


> Just a note in passing that Steve Salter is not doing well and has entered a hospice, according to his daughter.


Source: FWF post


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

kcowan said:


> Just a note in passing that Steve Salter is not doing well and has entered a hospice, according to his daughter.


Sorry to hear that. Steve always provided interesting input. RRifmetic is/was quite a program. Maybe someone else will pick it up and keep it current.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

So sorry to hear this.  And reading from the above FWF link, a real genuine and generous guy. A rarity these days.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Steve's posts were always worth reading...all the best.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Steve succumbed to Kidney Cancer last Wednesday. RIP Steve.


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