# Bad behavior by Canadian bank - any advice?



## Jane_T_2011 (Oct 8, 2011)

Hoping you good folks here can provide some guidance re: the following misbehavior by one of the banks:

-- My cousin inherited a large sum and was directed by their bank (one of the big five Canadian banks) to their “wealth management” subsidiary.

-- My cousin has absolutely no knowledge or experience in investing of any kind - not even a mutual fund. And my cousin is risk averse/has a short time horizon (will need the money in less than five years).

-- After a very short meeting with an “advisor”, the advisor recommended (and has since implemented) an absolutely atrocious portfolio: just a handful of individual stocks (I.e., not fund or ETF) with a ludicrous set of fees. I’ve run the numbers using a few sources and my cousin would be astronomically better off just buying a low-cost, well-diversified index fund or ETF.

-- It appears that the only documentation discussed during the meeting (and that my cousin has possession of) was a 10-page boilerplate “proposal” which was nothing more than a template/brochure with my cousin’s name and investment principal filled in - the rest of the “proposal” is a complete joke - literally 99%+ of the content is a template. I have met with many firms over the years for my family’s portfolio and the “proposal” my cousin received is easily the flimsiest, most misleading piece of snake oil I’ve ever seen from such a firm in my decades of investing.

-- As if that were not enough, I am fairly sure that the advisor did little “Know Your Client” or “Investment Policy Statement”. My cousin has neither - just the 10 page brochure/”proposal”.

-- When I raised flags, my cousin reached out (multiple times) to the “advisor” re: above concerns. No reply. Crickets.

My questions are:
What standard documentation is an “advisor” legally required to review/provide - i.e., is there a “know your client” and/or “investment policy statement” template that Canadian advisors are *legally bound* to go through (and provide signed copy of) with new clients?

I know there are several industry associations/regulators that may be involved in such a situation - IIROC, MFDA, etc. But I can’t figure out where to start/best approach to take to help my cousin close out the account and (hopefully) get back the loss (the stocks in the portfolio have dipped) incurred to date. Yes, my cousin intends to start with the advisor's management, but I smell the need to escalate to industry regulators potentially brewing….

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I’d love to see the New account Application Form your cousin signed. It should contain the required KYC information. The firms compliance department should have some oversight on purchasing stocks for investors with a short time horizon, no risk tolerance and no experience.

that‘s your first step In my opinion....get a hold of the documents thst were signed at account opening. Are you prepared to name the firm? If it’s TD, I might be able to help with escalation protocols. (Former employee).


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## spiritwalker2222 (Nov 7, 2017)

Is this with the banking or the brokerage side? If it's on the bank side, I'm not surprised.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> *I’d love to see the New account Application Form your cousin signed. It should contain the required KYC information.* The firms compliance department should have some oversight on purchasing stocks for investors with a short time horizon, no risk tolerance and no experience.
> 
> that‘s your first step In my opinion....get a hold of the documents thst were signed at account opening. Are you prepared to name the firm? If it’s TD, I might be able to help with escalation protocols. (Former employee).


 ... the OP has already stated that


> " As if that were not enough, *I am fairly sure that the advisor did little “Know Your Client” or “Investment Policy Statement”. My cousin has neither - just the 10 page brochure/”proposal”*.


Given the OP has also stated


> When I raised flags,* my cousin reached out (multiple times) to the “advisor” re: above concerns. No reply. *Crickets.


... I doubt the bank's management or internal "compliance" is going to help. Unless you want to ride their merry-go-around.

SO best bet is to take it to https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic

Maybe it's time for an "update" for such ongoing practices perpetuated by the banks. Here was an article in 2014 (likely not the last too):

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/hi...ncovers-atrocious-investment-advice-1.2553560


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I’m confused....are you saying that he has the KYC and NAAF.....I read that he didn’t have these documents....just the proposal. 

How does the OP know the investments were or were not suitable if he doesn’t have the kYC forms which the cousin signed?

I don’t know what the actual law is, but most, if not all, signed documents I dealt with had a customer and bank copy.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

This is why I buy bank stock in lieu of buying advice from them. 

I have a relative in a similar situation only he likes his advisor and has no intention of questioning. He thinks his advisor is doing it for free. Sigh. He said on of his securities was a particular mutual fund. I looked it up and the selling advisor gets a 5% commission right off the top, not to mention annual fees of 2.5%. When I told my cousin that he just looked at me with a blank stare. Apparently he had no clue what I was talking about. He didn't notice on his first statement that 5% of his assets had vanished. But my cousin doesn't want help so I backed out. He still thinks he isn't paying anything for the service because he doesn't get a bill. 

So I guess my point to the OP is Does your cousin want help? If not you are hooped.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Pluto said:


> So I guess my point to the OP is Does your cousin want help? If not you are hooped.


My underline. Did the cousin ask for help? If not, why are you meddling? If the cousin did ask for guidance/direction, then some support seems like 'goodwill'. 

FWIW, in all my years, I have bitten my tongue on what, how and where close family and friends invest. Unless asked for an opinion..... I don't.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

As much as I hate these advisor type of people (I actually had a nightmare a couple nights ago about a financial advisor), I agree with @AltaRed about only contributing to the effort if asked for.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

What does your cousin think of all this? What is to stop him drawing out the money, opening an online account and buying index funds? If he doesn't get it and wants to keep things the way they are there is not much you can do. You need to be careful - if you succeed in talking him into changing things then you become the goat who is responsible for anything bad that happens while anything good is the result of his genius.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

About 3 years ago my lifelong friend (we were pushed around in the same baby carriage) cashed in his Roth & bought physical gold...its sitting in a safe in his garage with his ammo and a lot of USD. 

He asked about buying the gold...I gave him my advice, he didn't take it.

We're still lifelong friends.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

From OP's first post:



> -- When I raised flags, *my cousin reached out (multiple times) to the “advisor*”* re: above concerns. No reply. *Crickets.


 and



> Yes, my cousin intends to start with the advisor's management, but I *smell the need to escalate to industry regulators potentially brewing…*.



Sounds like the cousin is one of those "yes, yes, yes" timid-type of investor, hence, the OP needs to meddle before the cousin gets cleaned out.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Sounds like the banker didn’t get a know your client form from the OP. There is nothing wrong with individual stocks, in fact you can make tremendous returns with them if you do it right, especially these days the stocks my advisers and me have picked have mostly doubled in a few weeks. Then again, we’ve been avoiding bonds, gics, hisa and other sure money losing ventures, so I can see why others would get upset.

the OP also probably doesn’t understand that the advisor has a lot of clients, all given similar, bank vetted advice, so of course the information looks the same. It would worry me more if they recommended different individual stocks to every person they meet. The bank has basically picked out the “best of the best” in their opinion and many people are getting good returns from it. Funny how you think an etf, which is basically the same thing would be better.

the idea that the banker would respond to a non-account holder is just plain silly too, unless you were their parent and they were minors, they aren’t allowed to legally.

the OP, clearly has no idea what’s going on and, while I understand their concerns, should stay out of it as recommendEd by others.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Sounds like the banker didn’t get a know your client form from the OP. There is nothing wrong with individual stocks, in fact you can make tremendous returns with them if you do it right, especially these days the stocks my advisers and me have picked have mostly doubled in a few weeks. Then again, we’ve been avoiding bonds, gics, hisa and other sure money losing ventures, so I can see why others would get upset.


 ... the OP did mention that the "stock recommendations" went down in value. And here you re-affirmed the bank didn't get KYC from the accountholder (is it not the other way around?) so as to gauge the accountholder's (aka "client") risk appetite BEFORE the stocks or whatever hell investments to recommend? What happened to fudiciary duty?



> the OP also probably doesn’t understand that the advisor has a lot of clients, all given similar, bank vetted advice, so of course the information looks the same. It would worry me more if they recommended different individual stocks to every person they meet. *The bank has basically picked out the “best of the best” in their opinion a*nd many people are getting good returns from it. Funny how you think an etf, which is basically the same thing would be better.


... since you have so much faith/confidence in a bank advisor, question for you - do you have one?



> the idea that the banker would respond to a non-account holder is just plain silly too, unless you were their parent and they were minors, they aren’t allowed to legally.


 ... seems like you just conveniently glossed over her comment:



> -_- When I raised flags, *my cousin reached out (multiple times) to the “advisor*”* re: above concerns. No reply. *Crickets. _


 (repeated 3rd time here).



> the OP, clearly has no idea what’s going on and, while I understand their concerns, should stay out of it as recommendEd by others.


 ... so does the accountholder have any idea of what's going on? Does the bank advisor has any idea of what's going on? Do you have any idea of what's going on either. Best to shuffle it under the rug, right?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

actually I’ve been with the wealth management division of several banks, so have my kids...have you? Can you even qualify?

I see the fact that they didn’t get the know your client from the busybody relative, not the account holder which is what I actually said at the beginning went right over your head.

gee, stocks go down? What a revelation...did they sell and lock in the losses, did the stocks continue to go to zero, was the timing just a little off and the stock rebound and go up again? Anyone who promises investments only go up aren’t trustworthy...it’s the overall trend that matters.

this is still up to the account holder, not you or the OP. From what I see, they aren’t investing the way you guys would, but then again, they aren’t in the same financial situation as either of you so why would they? I’d prefer the advice of my advisor over that of people on an anonymous message board.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> actually I’ve been with the wealth management division of several banks, so have my kids...have you? Can you even qualify?


 ... whoopee do, got 2 invitations and made up my mind after that to NOT to go to ANY bank wealth management division for any "financial/investment advice" EVEN IT'S FREE. I would rather pay for an independent fee-based (aka UNBIASED) financial advisor than ending up qualified as a SUCKER.



> I see the fact that they didn’t get the know your client from the busybody relative, not the account holder which is what I actually said at the beginning went right over your head.


 ... if your intention is not to help as the OP is asking, then no need to be sarcastic to start with.



> gee, stocks go down? What a revelation...did they sell and lock in the losses, did the stocks continue to go to zero, was the timing just a little off and the stock rebound and go up again? Anyone who promises investments only go up aren’t trustworthy...it’s the overall trend that matters.


 ... the client/cousin is obviously nervous about his large sum inheritance going down because his risk appetite wasn't gauged by the bank.



> this is still up to the account holder, not you or the OP. From what I see, they aren’t investing the way you guys would, but then again, they aren’t in the same financial situation as either of you so why would they?


 ... I never gave any investing advice as that wasn't what the OP was asking. I only suggested she go to GoPublic if she (and the accountholder=cousin) felt there was a wrongdoing (which isn't not uncommon even in year 2020).



> I’d prefer the advice of my advisor over that of people on an anonymous message board.


 ... of course you would but not sure why you're even on this message board commenting then.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

So, you admit you have no experience, yet still claim to be an expert on the subject matter. I think you just answered your last question. To counter the clueless giving bad advice.

btw, did your fee for service guy get you in on the palantir ipo? Oh wait, they don’t have access to such investments...to bad, over 200% increase in a couple of months....being a sucker really hurts the pocket book, unlike listening to your unqualified advice.

to be fair, the advice was biased, the bank was an underwriter of the ipo and the stock price did drop below the ipo strike price, but some people have a longer term view...the people who invested were certainly suckers though, that return was terrible...we should have been in bonds.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I never claimed I was an expert - on whatever subject matter that you're alluding to. Nor did I give any "advice" per se. Again, I merely suggest she seek CBC's GoPublic if she felt/viewed there was wrong doing as her last comment/question was:



> Y_es, my cousin intends to start with the advisor's management, but I smell the need to escalate to industry regulators potentially brewing….
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! _


 ... 3rd time quoted on first sentence above.

Again,I must admit I not an expert on anything so I can't give any advice, including "bad" ones. Unlike you who is now a stock expert too ... alluding to:



> _btw, did your fee for service guy get you in on the palantir ipo? ..._


 ... whatever the fck that is or you're yapping about. And let's not forget, your real estate expertise - I wish you good luck on all your rentals during this pandemic.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

as for what I was talking about, since you clearly can’t understand, I was pointing out there are benefits to being in a wealth management division of a bank, something you have no experience about but an “expert” opinion you felt the need to share, versus a fee for service advisor.

My rentals are doing fine, everyone is paying their rents, in fact I’ve been on a buying spree lately picking up stuff at 45-50k which rent for $850/month thanks to covid’s impact on the market. My businesses are also making money as well as my stocks. I’ve always stated that I’m diversified in my investments. I’ve been successful in all three areas, not that you’d believe it since you can’t do it yourself, it must be impossible. Since you who hates stocks, real estate and businesses. How exactly do you make your fortune? Having people pay you to go away?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> as for what I was talking about, since you clearly can’t understand, I was pointing out there are benefits to being in a wealth management division of a bank, something you have no experience about but an “expert” opinion you felt the need to share, versus a fee for service advisor.


 ... that not what the OP was seeking as "thoughts or suggestions" so what's your point here in this "thread"? Talk about your narratives?

The fee for service was only brought up when you touted your most beautiful experience with a wealth management division of a bank with:



> *actually I’ve been with the wealth management division of several banks, so have my kids...have you? Can you even qualify? *


Granted, you love your bank and you should, considering all the business you give them. Ka-ching $$$... for the banks that is. Means nothing to me as far as getting value for $.



> My rentals are doing fine, everyone is paying their rents, in fact I’ve been on a buying spree lately picking up stuff at 45-50k which rent for $850/month thanks to covid’s impact on the market. My businesses are also making money as well as my stocks. I’ve always stated that I’m diversified in my investments. I’ve been successful in all three areas, not that you’d believe it since you can’t do it yourself, it must be impossible.


 ... of course, you have ... you have always claimed to be an expert on these.



> Since you who hates stocks, real estate and businesses. How exactly do you make your fortune? Having people pay you to go away?


 ... never stated I "hate" stocks, businesses and real estate. Got into the latter 2 subject very early in my life, and now into stocks (much easier to tackle and create wealth). So not sure where you got that idea I hated these other than unfairly alluding to???? Let me put it this way, I don't need to be like Gordon Geckko, to make a "fortune" unlike some. I'm happy as to where I am, to be able to make what I just need for a comfortable living and being able to sleep soundly at night.

As for paying me to go away, you can make an attempt but I'm here to stay on this board.

And stop telling other posters who came here to seek help for themselves/others to buzz off or mind their own business. You should be doing that if your agenda here on this board is not to help but post your own narratives.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Typical statement from the mediocre... I don’t want to be successful, being a failure was my plan, therefore I’m successful. Arm get tired from patting yourself on the back. anyone who actually does succeed is either greedy or a liar since I couldn’t do it myself...I keep telling myself that so I can sleep at night Cause reality really sucks, and I don’t want to face it. Not sure how those people who triple their money in a few months can feel at peace with themselves. We need to tax them so the government can give it to me. 

as to what my statements have to do with the topic, I was saying, from a point of experience, which you don’t have, that wealth management isn’t as bad as the two of you seem to be advocating. As I said before, I’m here to counter the opinions of the uninformed.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Typical statement from the mediocre... I don’t want to be successful, being a failure was my plan, therefore I’m successful. Arm get tired from patting yourself on the back. anyone who actually does succeed is either greedy or a liar since I couldn’t do it myself...I keep telling myself that so I can sleep at night Cause reality really sucks, and I don’t want to face it.


 .. whatever .. whatever accusations/assumptions you want to make. We all know you're the greatest, the best, the smartest, blah, blah blah ... ok? Happy now?



> as to what my statements have to do with the topic, I was saying, from a point of experience, which you don’t have, *that wealth management isn’t as bad as the two of you seem to be advocating. *As I said before, I’m here to counter the opinions of the uninformed.


 ... let's see what the OP says on returning. But then on the other side of your mouth you don't want the busybody relative (OP) to nose into the "accountholder=cousin" business.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Never claimed to be the best, but at least I actually know about the stuff I talk about from real experience, not assumptions. I’m also very successful and not ashamed of it. That’s why people seek me out to mentor them. But some of us need to fail to sleep at night, just don’t need to pass that on to others. Of course, you’ll be coming to me and my kids to support you in your old age...no wonder you sleep so well, you know there will be money there at least.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... whoopee do, got 2 invitations and made up my mind after that to NOT to go to ANY bank wealth management division for any "financial/investment advice" EVEN IT'S FREE. I would rather pay for an independent fee-based (aka UNBIASED) financial advisor than ending up qualified as a SUCKER.
> 
> ... if your intention is not to help as the OP is asking, then no need to be sarcastic to start with.
> 
> ...


beav, how can you be so sure that the independent financial advisors are unbiased? I think they are just as likely to have biases and allegiances as anyone. 
A bank screwing over someone (by recommending their own products) is just as likely as the “independent” advisor making recommendations.

what about bank advisors who are fee-based? Are they any better or worse


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^ I don't work for the government, never did, and never will so don't you and your kids have to unnecessarily worry. However, I have paid into CPP, annual income tax plus BIAs, property tax handsomely (all kind of taxes under the sun) as both a business owner plus property owner so I'm eligible for those "social benefits". So I hope you haven't dis-encouraged your kids into paying into these otherwise better leave them a large inheritance or maybe they don't need one given they got such a business-minded dad.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> beav, how can you be so sure that the independent financial advisors are unbiased? I think they are just as likely to have biases and allegiances as anyone.


 ... I'm sure there is some form of biases ... can't eradicate that but can try to keep it to a minimum. But first question I would ask the "advisor-for-hire", how are you paid?



> A bank screwing over someone (by recommending their own products) is just as likely as the “independent” advisor making recommendations.


 ... an independent advisor that I would be hiring would not be tied to any financial products.



> what about bank advisors who are fee-based? Are they any better or worse


 ... no idea as to whether they exists even. In any event, not going to be using any advisor that's "hired/sponsored" by the bank or any financial institution (eg. insurance company, etc.) It's only logical the advisor has his/her self-interest first and foremost.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Property taxes are municipal income, last I checked they don’t give handouts to deadbeats. My kids are already worth over seven figures, so they don’t have to worry about underfunded government handouts to support them, despite the amount you may have paid into them. See how far your entitled attitude gets you from a bankrupt government.

I notice you don’t give any examples of the great advice you get from the fee for service advisor...oh wait, you need to sleep at night, so they must lose money for you. How much do they collect in fees from the funds you bought?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Property taxes are municipal income, last I checked they don’t give handouts to deadbeats.


 ... they sure support some government employees who will become deadbeats.



> My kids are already worth over seven figures, so they don’t have to worry about underfunded government handouts to support them, despite the amount you may have paid into them.


 ... so are you telling me that your kids have not paid their portion of taxes to accumulate those 7 figures? And that they'll refrain from collecting their CPP, OAS in their old age?



> See how far your entitled attitude gets you from a bankrupt government.


 ... I think you got your "entitlement" idea sorely mixed up ... are you saying you'll not be collecting CPP, OAS that you have been "entitled-to-pay-into" when you're of age. That very generous of you if that's the case.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

What do my kids contributions have to do with the fact that the government doesn’t have the money for your expected handouts? You do understand that they spent 400B more than they brought in this year alone?

for a business owner, real estate expert and stock investor, you certainly don’t seem to understand you don’t pay taxes on stocks until you sell, real estate has tons of write offs and differing taxes is very easy to do with owning a business. though we do pay a lot of property taxes, though we routinely appeal to keep them low (weren’t you one time advocating increasing the assessment value to pay more taxes, so you could feel you were worth more?).

i have no idea if my kids will collect any benefits, but it wouldn’t surprise me to learn there is no money to collect from by the time they get there and thus have to take care of themselves.

same could be said for me, no idea if there will be money by the time I qualify (heck, I may not even live that long), don’t need it even if it’s there though. My monthly income from real estate is higher than the average yearly income of most people, plus my income from stocks and business allow me to sleep fine no matter what the government does. Sounds like you need to be worried though.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> What do my kids contributions have to do with the fact that the government doesn’t have the money for your expected handouts? You do understand that they spent 400B more than they brought in this year alone?


 ... I didn't know CPP and OAS are considered "hand-outs"? If they are considered as such according to your definition, then make your kids proud and don't collect the handouts that you're "entitled to (my definition) (and provided you paid into them first)."



> i have no idea if my kids will collect any benefits, but it wouldn’t surprise me to learn there is no money to collect from by the time they get there and thus have to take care of themselves.


 ... your kids don't need it since they already got 7 figures as what you stated ... by the time they're of age, that could be doubled so no need to worry either.



> same could be said for me, no idea if there will be money by the time I qualify, don’t need it even if it’s there though.
> 
> My monthly income from real estate is higher than the average yearly income of most people, plus my income from stocks and business allow me to sleep fine no matter what the government does. Sounds like you need to be worried though.


 ... the experts at CPP has already declared that the fund is sustainable for the next 75 years so no need for both you and me to worry about. And neither your kids. Besides, they can always jack up the premiums to sustain it. 

Not sure about OAS but then it'll be political suicide for whatever party in charge if they don't.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Guess you missed the ob statement that we have no plans to collect government money...my kids aren’t worried that experts at cpp could be wrong and lying, not like government ever does that. After all they could always just spend more money they don’t have.

as long as you sleep well believing the cpp experts will take care of you, personally I’d rather know I’ve got nothing to worry about because I already have the money. Sounds like your advisor is worth every penny you pay them. Can you provide their information so other don’t follow in your path to poverty where one needs government money to survive in retirement. My kids only have a wealth manager advisor to help them, compared to you, they are way behind.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Guess you missed the ob statement that we have no plans to collect government money...my kids aren’t worried that experts at cpp could be wrong and lying, not like government ever does that. After all they could always just spend more money they don’t have.
> 
> as long as you sleep well believing the cpp experts will take care of you, personally I’d rather know I’ve got nothing to worry about because I already have the money. Sounds like your advisor is worth every penny you pay them. Can you provide their information so other don’t follow in your path to poverty where one needs government money to survive in retirement. My kids only have a wealth manager advisor to help them, compared to you, they are way behind.


 ... not sure what "ob statement" you're referring to.

In any event, since you don't need to collect since as you're so financially successful, then all the power to you (and your kids). The rest of the poor us who has paid into will. 

Added: I would not be surprised the poor us includes at least some if not all of the 1%er in this country.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Ironic that you think the bank is ripping people off, while blindly believing in the government despite its proven track record...you gave them your money willingly and think they invested it wisely, but condemn the bank. You make lemmings look smart. At least sags won’t be lonely begging on the streets while yelling tax the rich.

oh and since these programs were Designed to help the poor, what is such a successful investor, who has banks begging for her business, need with them? They weren’t designed to help you, even though you paid into them, they were designed to help others who weren’t as successful...the idea of getting them doesnt even hit the radar in my family.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Whatever. [Just a matter of time you have to drag sags into this.]


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeah, downplay self sufficiency it’s wrong in the communist manifesto after all. Up with social programs as long as I get my share.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Not every one can be a braggart. I admit it takes alot of skills and a determined mindset to be one.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

not Everyone has no self respect and needs to feed off of those who are successful, can’t even imagine the mindset to be one.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Poor GUY, having to forever pay taxes to feed the poor living in Canada. Maybe it's time to move out of this country?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Poor beaver not understanding that backing up statements with proof is not bragging. Noticed we have never had any examples of your success. I asked specifically what your endorsed advisor recommended, since they are sooo much better than the bank ones you condemn only to get crickets. Full of something, but not good advice.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sags here.... and let me just say that I am humbled to be merely mentioned in passing by the Rental King, Wizard of Stocks, and Mentor of the unwashed masses.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Sags here.... and let me just say that I am humbled to be merely mentioned in passing by the Rental King, Wizard of Stocks, and *Mentor of the unwashed masses.*


 ... can't be truer than that but I would replace "Mentor" with "Successful Businessman ... " to be 100% accurate.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Jane_T_2011 said:


> -- My cousin inherited a large sum and was directed by their bank (one of the big five Canadian banks) to their “wealth management” subsidiary.
> 
> -- My cousin has absolutely no knowledge or experience in investing of any kind - not even a mutual fund. And my cousin is risk averse/has a short time horizon (will need the money in less than five years).
> 
> ...


If your cousin wants help and you are looking for advice then you need to provide more details
1) How much money is a `large sum`. The term large sum is meaningless. Are we talking 100,000 or 500,000 or 1,000,000 or 10,000,000
2) What part of the bank are you referring to? are you talking about a branch-based Financial Planner (not likely if individual stocks), or was it the brokerage arm ie investment advisor, or was it private wealth management/investment management. The division may dictate the regulatory requirements.
3) What fees do you consider ludicrous? And what do those fees cover. Are you talking about an annual management fee or individual commissions on the stocks? Does the fee include tax prep or other work?
4) what type of portfolio - all stocks- all dividend stocks? - a mix of stocks and fixed income?
5) What province is your cousin in? likely not relevant but may be in a couple of instances.
6) do you know what information the cousin gave to the advisor and what he signed at the advisors (and perhaps not given a copy of).
7) What does the cousin need the money for in 5 years - a house, retirement?
8) Was the initial discussion and the investing all done in one initial meeting?
etc etc
The usual process of making a complaint would be to talk to(or try to talk to) the advisor, then the manager, then the compliance dept -(ask for a review of the KYC vs the investments and ask for a copy of the KYC). Then escalate up from there. Most banks and investment firms will have a brochure or publication on the process of making a complaint. If you try to go straight to the top it will likely take you much longer and be more difficult than simply following the recommended process - unless you have evidence of fraud or some other kind of misdeed. No, your opinion of the right type of investments and time frame is not evidence of wrongdoing. Document everything in writing including messages left, phone calls made etc.
However, if the cousin went through the process and approved all the investments you will have some challenges ahead of you.
In terms of the new client forms and KYC, yes these are required to be obtained but I cannot speak to whether a copy is to be given to the client at the time of the meeting. A client certainly has the right to ask for a copy though.
I have been out of the industry a while now (retired) but was a compliance officer for a while. Depending on the regulatory body, and the institution, the KYC should have been reviewed by now.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Seems like my posts again countering the most ego inflated braggart on this forum got deleted again. Why? Because the braggart knows my posts describing his "successful" business tactics and behaviours are true to the T so it's so much easier to report and have the posts deleted ... like hush hush, sweep the dirt under the rug and trying to use a "clever" business strategy too.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Sorry to disappoint you but the moderators deleted your post all on their own...probably because they contained nothing of value. Wasn’t on my ask. I had no issues with you making a fool of yoursel and showing what happens when you go off your meds.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Use Ignore.....


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Sorry to disappoint you but the moderators deleted your post all on their own...probably because they contained nothing of value. Wasn’t on my ask. I had no issues with you making a fool of yoursel and showing what happens when you go off your meds.


 .. sure sure sure, it wasn't on your ask but your report. The mods had nothing better to do than targeting my posts to counter yours. Yeah, I made a fool of myself only after you made a BIGGER FOOL of yourself, revealing the"secrets" of your "business" success ... starting off with your fabulous rentals ... denigrating downtrodden tenants, pretending to be a sympathetic landlord. Now, don't bite the hands that feed you - wasn't that your line too? That you also fed to your kids.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Quite the ego you have, contributIng nothing of value for years, make up stories like crazy to cover your inadequacit’s, attacking any successful person out there and thinking I’d take the time to silence you. You’re not worth the effort. He moderators have noses of their own, they don’t need me to report anything. Don’t you have a soup can to trade? Or do you need to pick up a few first from your business experience?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Quite the ego you have, contributIng nothing of value for years, make up stories like crazy to cover your inadequacit’s, attacking any successful person out there and thinking I’d take the time to silence you. You’re not worth the effort. Don’t you have soup can to trade? Or do you need to pick up a few first from your business experience?


 ... are you talking about yourself? Do you need a bigger helium tank? How about a mirror? 

If I wasn't worth the effort for you to take the time to silence me, then why bother taking the time to respond then? I guess in your deluded mind, you're bigger and more successful than Warren Buffett.

Now now, don't bite the downtrodden hands that hold the soup cans living in your rentals.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I’ve got a waiting list to get into my places, must be because I’m such a terrible guy. They also pay their rent because part of the screening is to ensure they have the means. How exactly is your made up holdings doing? You claimed to have investment, real estate and businesses...but seem more familiar with food and blood banks than a real bank. Let me guess...crickets.

tell you what, I’m feeling generous, let me know which bridge youre at and, the next time I go to Costco, I’ll drop off the box I get and you can double your holdings. It’s probably quite the upgrade.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

No need to guess on this - modesty doesn't exist in your world.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Just like intelligence, accomplishment and reality doesn’t in yours.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Here we go again ... the need to compare and ego-boost by Just a Guy. Do you ever practice your signature of "Maybe try reading and understanding before responding."? I had already admitted that you were smarter, richer, and whatever BS you were spewing.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You claim to have knowledge but in perusing your 5214 posts, there doesn’t seem to be any advice on investing, real estate or running a business...yet you wonder why the moderators delete your posts....it’s a conspiracy theory I’m sure.

what exactly were the “words of wisdom” which were so unfairly deleted in the business thread? It has been a fairly useful thread so far, especially when it comes to succession planning. My bet it was just another delusional rant. Oh wait, I’d have to have read it to report it no?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> You claim to have knowledge but in perusing your 5214 posts, there doesn’t seem to be any advice on investing, real estate or running a business...yet you wonder why the moderators delete your posts....it’s a conspiracy theory I’m sure.
> 
> what exactly were the “words of wisdom” which were so unfairly deleted in the business thread? It has been a fairly useful thread so far, especially when it comes to succession planning. My bet it was just another delusional rant.


 ... why do you need any of my advice on investing, RE or running a business? Including succession planning. The forum got you ... the brightest and braggiest of all.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I’m not the only one on the board, nor am I trying to silence everyone else. I talk to many investors, real estate guys and business owners, many better than me...I’m not intimidate, nor feel the need to tear them down because I’m so insecure. Im interested in getting better, not scared of it. The ego you make up about me is obviously a projection of yourself...you have nothing to learn here and even less to contribute...

so I gather I was right and the mods just deleted one of your wild rants which upsets you.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> I’m not the only one on the board, nor am I trying to silence everyone else. I talk to many investors, real estate guys and business owners, many better than me...I’m not intimidate, nor feel the need to tear them down because I’m so insecure. Im interested in getting better, not scared of it. The ego you make up about me is obviously a projection of yourself...you have nothing to learn here and even less to contribute...


 ... no, you only don't tear people like yourself down ... the almighty successful ,RE, business guy, only the downtrodden people whom you collect rent from. Obviously you don't feel intimidated and yet need to know what others have to compare with because you're feel so secure. Like what the bully kid says to the others "Oh, my dad's balls are bigger than your dad's." 

You're absolutely right I have nothing to learn here .... from you that's. And you're also right, I have nothing to contribute to you ... now feel free to buzz off.



> so I gather I was right and the mods just deleted one of your wild rants which upsets you.


 ... my wild rants? Or wasn't you the one ranting and bitching about how much tax you and your kids were paying to support into CPP, OAS, and the soup-can holder renting your place? Why would the mods want to delete the truth? I guess 'cause someone go scared of the truth and reported it to the mods. 

Oh, save you the trouble to this accusation - I'm on meds and you're of sound mind to b1tch about having to support hand-outs.


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