# Stunned and Confused



## Emma (May 18, 2013)

My husband passed away suddenly and unexpectedly age 66 while we were on vacation in the US. I am now dealing with a mountain of paperwork. As you may know from previous posts we removed our investments from a financial planner to Investorline. We have a non reg portfolio of blue chips, maybe 15 percent of our investment money. Rest in GIC and HISA, a lot registered. We too were waiting for a market correction but our horizon turned out to be a lot shorter than we thought. The Bank wants me to see a Nesbitt Burns Rep, I have flashbacks to our financial planner who was paid well and did little to grow our money. I am not up to making decisions on my own and at the moment not sure I will want to in the future. I also want to try to withdraw some RRSP money after I speak to our Accountant as there would be substantial tax to pay on my death. Lastly they are transferring his TFSA to mine and said it will not be considered an over contribution. Will I still be eligible to contribute 5500 a year in future?

Any suggestions appreciated, I cannot think straight.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

My condolences, a terrible shock for you.

I'll leave the taxation, etc, advice to the more knowledgeable.......but one thing I know from personal experience is that even if you think you're coping well with your loss*, you're probably not doing as well as you imagine, so decisions of importance might best be served by postponement if at all possible.

(*After my late wife's death I thought I was doing fine......a couple years later it hit me as to just how off kilter I'd been for some time.)

Good luck...hang in!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Very sorry for your loss ,my best recommendation is to do nothing right now .I do know a very nice lady who is an accountant who we pay $40 per hour plus HST for help with some tax situations .I notice you are in Toronto so somebody like this to sit down and look at the tax situation may be an idea .Since you just left a Financial Planner probably not a good idea to get back into that situation again.


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

My sincerest sympathies, so sorry to hear about your loss.

Emma, despite this very very difficult time for you hopefully it helps you to work on the questions surrounding your portfolio. As you have worked during the last year on your investments yourself you are at least somewhat familiar with your portfolio. Do you have a good accountant and a knowledgable lawyer? 

Before you go to a financial advisor or move monies around get some advice from your lawyer and accountant first, simply to get the necessities set by the law and Revenue Canada. You don't have to take their advice but the more knowledge you have the better you can make a decision what you want and need to do. If they offer you to handle the estate for you - stay away from it, they can be as bad as the banks. Get all the information first and then slowly make a decision. *You have time* and don't have to decide instantly. For some people it is helpful to make list of questions and add to them the more you learn.
After you have answers to your questions from your lawyer and accountant you may also talk to CRA - we did this as the information we received from the lawyer and the accountant contradicted each other. CRA was very helpful, they don't give any advice but they can point you in the right direction. Actually, we would not trust any advice from a bank. 

....and there are some very helpful and knowledgable people on this forum. Pucki


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Emma i am so sorry, greatest sympathies & condolences to you.

of course you are stunned & confused & that is the very reason why you should not make any drastic moves for the time being, exactly as nemo suggests.

here are a few thoughts:




Emma said:


> (1) My husband passed away suddenly and unexpectedly age 66 while we were on vacation in the US. I am now dealing with a mountain of paperwork. As you may know from previous posts we removed our investments from a financial planner to Investorline. We have a non reg portfolio of blue chips, maybe 15 percent of our investment money. Rest in GIC and HISA, a lot registered.
> 
> (2) The Bank wants me to see a Nesbitt Burns Rep, I have flashbacks to our financial planner who was paid well and did little to grow our money. I am not up to making decisions on my own and at the moment not sure I will want to in the future.
> 
> ...




(1) & to a certain extent (3): this portfolio profile sounds perfect for someone in your situation. Markets are waffling & may drop, so 15% only in blue chips sounds like a perfect haven of security for someone who is gradually adjusting to a major loss.

taxes (as in 3) will not be due for some time, so the choice of where to withdraw any funds that might be necessary to pay such taxes does not have to be made right now. You might, instead, on a calm & unhurried basis, begin considering which investment should be liquidated. Depending on your total circumstances, it might be wiser to collapse one of the non-registered GICs - i believe that in the case of spousal decease, these can be collapsed without penalty.

(2) of course some bank representative is going to recommend a highly-paid advisor! but with only 15% of total investments in blue chip stocks & the balance in GICs, you are in an ideal situation to coast at Investorline without advice for several months, possibly a year or even 2.

it's difficult to find a good advisor & one would normally not go to the first individual whose Nesbitt name they would give you. In other words, this, too, is a project for calm & thoughtful consideration at a later date! may i repeat that it's beyond awesome that your investments are so conservatively placed at this point in time, they can last without interference for a long time to come.

(3) as in (1) above.

(4) yes, you'll be able to carry on contributing to the TFSA next year. If it holds mostly cash - since you have mentioned in other posts in the past that you & your late husband were holding considerable cash in the expectation that stock markets would come down - you could put the funds into a HISA. I believe at BMO these are paying 1.25%, which is paltry. However the point is that you would be buying time & calm during this so-difficult period of shock & grief, whilst the HISA would be doing no harm whatsoever to the account.

(5) you might, as you say, eventually decide to find a permanent financial advisor. As it happens, i feel this is not quite the right time to seek one out, especially since your funds are so securely stowed away & you have nothing to worry about.

also as it happens i do have a suggestion, thanks to moneyGal who as you know is a highly knowledgeable financial professional writing in this forum (she doesn't take private clients but she had an excellent suggestion a year or 2 ago, which is the suggestion i'll pass on to you in due course) (i'm not proposing it at the moment because baby steps are in order right now imho, so we've covered enough for today.)

one last thing, if i may. You are going to receive suggestions from mostly-male financial cowboys in this forum. Some are even going to suggest that you should sit right down now & plan up a detailed ETF 10-year investment plan for yourself on Excel spreadsheet ... could you perhaps manage to resist all of these suggestions? nemo has the right idea ...


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Emma

Wish you the best. Drop the bank, The Nesbitt burns Rep works for the bank, his job is to make money for the bank. The banks will kill you with their fees, They will take your RRSP & TFSA spread them out so GICs come due @ all different time frames & if you want to switch them over to another financial institution they will kill your account with fees. Financial plan with a credit union, no conflict of interest. Years ago my mom had the financial planner @ a credit union look over all her holdings in different financial institutions signed a form & he went over everything with her & switched all holdings to the credit union when the timing was right. She just had to sign the form & they did the work without her having to deal with the financial institutions. Nesbitt Burns is a bad move, the banks have it down to a science making you think they are your friend. Business is business don't fall for thinking the bank is your friend.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

wolf u are making progress in the humanitarian dept, at least u didn't suggest that she should buy SPY futures each:


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## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

Emma, my heart goes out to you. I was in a similar situation one and a half years ago. We were in Las Vegas on a short vacation when my husband had a stroke. He was in ICU there for a week, then they flew us both home in an air ambulance. He was in ICU here for a week, and then died at age 64. Thank goodness we had insurance.

Like Nemo said, I thought I was doing OK, but in retrospect, I was shell shocked. I ran a red light and almost got into an accident. There is no rush to change anything with your investments, is there? Could you let things ride for a year or so? Just deal with the things that need to be dealt with right now like insurance, CPP, stuff like that. The funeral home will walk you through what needs to be done.

As far as the TFSA, I think you will still be eligible for $5500/year. 

Here is a list of Fee Only (not on commission) financial planners that Money Sense magazine published, if it would make you feel more secure to have a consultation. http://www.moneysense.ca/directory-of-fee-only-planners

There is a good website called Widowed Village that was a huge help to me emotionally. There forum there is also good. The people there get it. http://widowedvillage.org/

Again, my deepest sympathies. Send me a message if you want to talk.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> wolf u are making progress in the humanitarian dept, at least u didn't suggest that she should buy SPY futures each:


 Here is the problem Humble

Often @ times like this people get bombarded with advise, It does not take long & just becomes noise & confusion. One person says do this the next says to do the exact opposite. Sometimes it is good to walk through a park, woods whatever with friend that does not offer advise but just listens. Often when someone just talks they figure it out.

There seams to be a few people on here that are borrowing money to invest in the market. The market is always right, the markets is the market & has to act in accordance with its nature. It is the trader/investor that is wrong when they lose money in the market. It is hard enough to make money when the trader is strong. These guys that are buying hand over fist on leverage I think are over estimating their ability to handle a high once or twice in life a stress full situation. Robert Precthor when he set the all time record (still stands ?) in the United States trading championships was under a lot of stress I forget the exact details his wife was in bad shape in the hospital if memory is correct. During this time he was losing money, Then he gets a phone call everything is good his trading takes an about face & he starts making money hand over fist going on to win the championship. There is a reason the best traders take time off when facing high stress in their lifes.

To much advice (noise) is why a lot of investors would be better off to shut off the TV & do some independent thinking. Times of stress when cant think independently simply take a break.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am sorry to hear about your loss.

It is a difficult time to be thinking about investments, taxes, and money..........and if you are not comfortable making the decisions right away, I think Humble offers some good advice.

Besides writing his real estate blog, Garth Turner is a financial advisor, and he is very knowledgeable and has a cautious, holistic view on finances.

Perhaps if you would like to talk to someone about the "first steps".........you may want to talk to him.

I suspect his advice will closely resemble that of Humble's...........and may not require a lot of changes right away.

From his website his contact is [email protected] and by phone (416) 346-0086

Best wishes to you.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Oh dear Emma! What a shock. There has been some good advice already. Take it slow and easy. Time heals all wounds. Do not give anyone authority over your affairs. You have been here long enough to know that you can handle everything with a little help.:distress:


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Too right. No hurry to chose an investment advisor. Keep the vultures away from your stash - you are as vulnerable as you ever will be, and they will be circling.

There is plenty to do in the next year without making changes to your investments, as well. I would put this off at least for a year, since the money is mostly in HISAs and GICs.

The internet needs a way of sending hugs... my best to you and your children.


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## Emma (May 18, 2013)

I wrote a thank you to all who have posted great advice, I will slow down until my brain starts working again. Not sure what happened to my post but I will not repeat it in case it shows up. Thanks again for your thoughtful replies.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Very sorry for your loss .... recently I was thinking about such situation with my wife.... Now I'm making all financial stuff from paying bills and managing HISA to investing into stocks.... My wife , even though, she is senior director in bank, has no idea about all those stuff.... When I try to involve her into portfolios, asset allocation etc... she just doesn't want to be involved.... When I ask her, what she gonna do when I pass away, she just telling - nothing, have no idea.... 
The only hope that our son, who just finished first year of Laurier business school will help her... 
Emma, maybe yoou can talk to your kids or other family mambers who can help you make finincial decisions


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I am with those that suggest your current portfolio is perfect for doing nothing for quite some time... a year or more. Focus on the near term decisions such as rollover of spouse's RRSP and TFSA, survivor's CPP and any pension and insurance, and let the rest be as it is. Seems like there is more than enough HISA cash to handle any needs for the foreseeable future. Take your time, ask questions here, and only when you feel you have it all together and have some focus on what your future might look like, then consider talking to a 'fee only' planner (FOP). A good FOP will want to ask questions about your future plans in order to make recommendations on asset allocation and diversification, withdrawal plan, etc.

Added: Don't make any premature decisions about tapping into the RRSP until you have time to sort out a longer range plan on what you want to do and where you want to be. You cannot reverse a withdrawal decision. Don't let current perceptions of higher tax brackets drive decision making at this time. A good FOP will be able to help out when your future vision is clear(er).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor as wendi said to you when you were out shopping for christmas presents for your wife a couple of years ago, what a thoughtful sweetheart of a husband you are!

other spouses - usually males - sometimes have the dilemma you describe. For you, i imagine the presence of your son, who will graduate some day from business school at Laurier, is going to make all the difference in the world.

perhaps you might begin to hold little financial meetings now & then with your wife & son together, so everyone learns what's going on & how to take over (god forbid) if necessary?

it would not surprise me if your wife, once her son becomes involved, grows more interested herself ...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks HP, you know .... as said de Saint Exupéry "Les hommes ont oublié cette vérité, dit le renard. Mais tu ne dois pas l’oublier. Tu deviens responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as apprivoisé." ("You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.")....
Yes, I tried already to do "seminars" with my wife, but without big "success" . She is very smart, but just not interested in investing at all .... as she told me, she would keep everything in cash (not even GIC) 
Hopefully, our son will more into it....trying to reach him....bringing him good books, websites etc


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

LOL humble - I have the same trouble with my husband as gibor has with his wife... he is not really interested (though he likes the quarterly reports of our growing wealth).

The problem is the learning curve - you have to pick up so much information before you can feel confident making decisions. It's like you had to become a mechanic before buying your first car...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

*Emma:* very sorry for your loss.

*gibor:* I was just like your wife prior to the 08 crisis; my point is that it's never too late to change/learn, so keep encouraging her.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Yes, take your time. It appears you do not need too many changes too soon anyways. Finances appear to be stable.

When it is time to decide what to do with your finances, I recommend to interview at least 3 people, then wait a month or two of possible, to make your decision.

Good Luck with things.


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## Emma (May 18, 2013)

A question with regard to GIC's....are each insured up to $100,000 if they are with different banks-trust companies within the Investorline account or is the account itself limited to 100,000 even if it holds more? Hope I am making sense! Thanks.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Emma said:


> A question with regard to GIC's....are each insured up to $100,000 if they are with different banks-trust companies within the Investorline account or is the account itself limited to 100,000 even if it holds more? Hope I am making sense! Thanks.


Yes. It is the issuer that holds the CDIC insurance, not the brokerage, i.e. BMO IL, account.


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