# Nomad Capitalist - The Best Countries for Canadians to Move Overseas



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Several retirees on this forum have asked about moving overseas.

Nomad Capitalist has a lot of good information on this topic and just published a video for Canadians specifically






Apparently more Canadians than ever are calling Nomad Capitalist for help getting out.


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## Flugzeug (Aug 15, 2018)

Several of my coworkers moved outside of Canada in the past few months. I know many more in my industry are considering it, including myself.

Europe, USA, Mexico, Caribbean. They are going all over the place, for different reasons but most don’t like the direction Canada is going.

Canadians of all age groups are looking to leave. I don’t know if it’s always this way but I definitely notice more and more people talking about leaving than I ever remember in the past.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Flugzeug said:


> Europe, USA, Mexico, Caribbean. They are going all over the place, for different reasons but most don’t like the direction Canada is going.
> 
> Canadians of all age groups are looking to leave. I don’t know if it’s always this way but I definitely notice more and more people talking about leaving than I ever remember in the past.


I know a lot of Americans who have recently left the US

At least in the US there seems to be a great resignation happening. The internet has made it possible to work from anywhere and countries hurt by the tourism crash modified their Visa programs for longer stays. Also a lot of people saw their assets explode in value and cashed out to move to a place with better weather, more freedom, and less taxes

When I retire I will be waiting years just to get a family doctor while paying more than my salary was in taxes and half the year in a harsh climate. No thanks


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is situational. 
1) Many of us retirees are held hostage by unrealized cap gains in our portfolios (in my case about 50% of portfolio net worth) to justify a deemed disposition and make a permanent non-resident move to another jurisdiction. Having a second home where one can spend upwards of 6 months per year and still remain a resident of Canada for tax purposes would be the better option.Without looking at what Nomad Capitalist has to say, I am suspecting Belize, Costa Rica and Panama are on the list. They are also not so far away that it would take forever to travel between the two.
2) Many of us are halfway or more through our retirement years. There is far less incentive to pick up at this stage of our lives. One needs to do it early.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We very much like Panama and Costa Rica. Costa Rica is much easier for us to get to. There are some direct flights to Liberia. We have spent snowbird time in both over the years though much more time in CR.

CR has a significant fiscal issue that has grown in leaps and bounds over the past five years. Their deficits have been increasing and their debt is on the way to be staggering. Panama, OTOH, is in much better financial shape because of canal revenues. We considered buying in CR but never did on the advice of several people that had snowbird properties there. Their advice was to rent.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Having a second home where one can spend upwards of 6 months per year and still remain a resident of Canada for tax purposes would be the better option.


This is the option many retired I know are doing, most not owning something in another country though. 

I do hear on occation some the younger crowd complaining and want to leave Canada. Funny when I ask them why it's usually something trivial and 90% haven't even left the Canada on a vacation to know what the other place is really like.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> This is the option many retired I know are doing, most not owning something in another country though.


This was generally what I intended to do. Canadian summers are nice but to maintain provincial healthcare I would need to spend +6 months (varies by province)

Once you cross a certain income threshold everything changes. Nomad Capitalist audience is high net worth they only take clients with 7-8 figure net worth. I intended to maintain provincial healthcare but I don't even have provincial healthcare at the moment and I could pay for better healthcare for far less than I will be paying in Canadian taxes now

If you make taxes so burdensome you make it more appealing to move. I think US and Canada will regret chasing high net worth individuals away.



cainvest said:


> I do hear on occation some the younger crowd complaining and want to leave Canada. Funny when I ask them why it's usually something trivial and 90% haven't even left the Canada on a vacation to know what the other place is really like.


What you hear depends on who you are surrounded by though.

I have lived in Europe and different parts of US and travelled extensively. I've met a lot of Canadians traveling and living abroad. You simply won't meet those people living and working in Canada. You definitely need to travel and experience the places you consider moving to. Everyone's situation and lifestyle is very different and every country has many complex pros and cons

Nomad Capitalist has a pretty good system going that works for certain people. From what I can tell it is increasing and several members on this forum have recently asked about moving abroad


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

cainvest said:


> This is the option many retired I know are doing, most not owning something in another country though.
> 
> I do hear on occation some the younger crowd complaining and want to leave Canada. Funny when I ask them why it's usually something trivial and 90% haven't even left the Canada on a vacation to know what the other place is really like.


There also seems to be a growing tendency on the part of some European countries to start insisting that out of country residents start declaring their assets, etc. Some believe that this may be the fist step towards increasing their tax burden via a net worth tax.

The passage of time and change of Government can also bring change. It certainly has to thousands British citizens living in Spain post EU. Changes in health coverages has, and will continue to be significant.

At the moment, British driving licenses for expats residents living in Spain are no longer valid. Overnight they cannot drive and will have to wait (what could be months) to go through the process of obtaining a Spanish driving license and auto insurance. This has left those who live in the countryside somewhat stranded.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'd missed this one from a month ago

Money drain: Canadian families and entrepreneurs are fleeing for better climes


> However, the path is obfuscated because the risks are significant: a combination of progressive and high taxation along with a significant overstep in regulations and the loss of the individual’s rights and freedoms. This is akin to the story of the frog being slowly boiled. By the time he feels uncomfortable, it’s already too late to jump out.


Canadians are Fleeing with their Wealth


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

And yet.....foreign capital is flowing into Canada.

Also.......if those countries are so great, why do so many want to leave them ?

One benefit is that If old people leave Canada to live in those countries, that leaves fewer people in our healthcare and LTC systems.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> And yet.....foreign capital is flowing into Canada.
> 
> Also.......if those countries are so great, why do so many want to leave them ?
> 
> One benefit is that If old people leave Canada to live in those countries, that leaves fewer people in our healthcare and LTC systems.


Yes sags

If you are poor you absolutely want to move to a country like Canada where you can benefit from taxing the wealthy. If you are wealthy and your taxes keep going up you might as well go enjoy the nice weather where you don't have to wait 2 years for basic healthcare

This situation is net bad for Canada


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I think a lot of this is geared to younger retirees. I have followed nomad capitalist off and on and think he has some good points and ideas. I had considered a nomad retirement in about 10 years but as I get older the less interest I have. I think if anyone is serious about this they do need to go slow and visit these places first as advised near the end of the first vid. I used to question how people could keep going to X every time they went on holiday. After years of traveling for work and numerous return trips I now waver between wanting to go back to a handful of locations and trying somewhere new.

Added:Andrew likes to target the very wealthy in a lot of his vids but I got to thinking:

How much money would one need to go this route? I understand it is somewhat subjective(lifestyle, location etc.) but am curious as to what forum members think is needed to do so.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

m3s said:


> ... When I retire I will be waiting years just to get a family doctor while paying more than my salary was in taxes and half the year in a harsh climate. No thanks


I'm not sure how this works ... are you saying your investments are not taxed at the moment then after retiring, will be switched to being taxed?




m3s said:


> ... What you hear depends on who you are surrounded by though.
> 
> I have lived in Europe and different parts of US and travelled extensively. I've met a lot of Canadians traveling and living abroad. You simply won't meet those people living and working in Canada.


If they've chosen to live and work outside of Canada - by definition, they won't be in Canada, right?

YMMV as I know of several who sang the praises of the US and then came back shortly. The record is my relative who was promoted to VP as part of moving to the US. He moved back to Canada in nine months. He's had ex-Canada offers but travels there for work as a Canadian resident.

Thinking back to my classmates, few traveled to another country. The ones that left Canada, almost exclusively did so for work, with most returning to Canada to retire. Being close to the kids and grand kids seems to be a big draw, particularly with the months somewhere warm option.

Maybe it's changing but the last I looked, the number of those leaving Canada was in the 60K range, for over ten years with recent years having it drop (possibly due to covid restrictions?).




m3s said:


> ... You definitely need to travel and experience the places you consider moving to. Everyone's situation and lifestyle is very different and every country has many complex pros and cons


Agreed ... and it's usually one of the top recommendations when people ask.




m3s said:


> ... Nomad Capitalist has a pretty good system going that works for certain people. From what I can tell it is increasing and several members on this forum have recently asked about moving abroad


I can recall several waves of people asking about leaving so I'm not so sure it is increasing in general.

'Course it's been the case for a long time that those with big money can move around. A factor seems to be whether the individuals have traveled or moved already.


Cheers


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Many younger people in their 40s are moving to PV to continue to work for their US-based business. They buy near the ocean and enjoy a lower cost of living and better weather, while maintaining roots at their old location.

It will be interesting to see how this experiment works out. It breaks the mold for Nomads because it offers an easy return.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I have a friend who's been living in Indonesia through the whole pandemic and he's having a nice time over there (except for quality of healthcare).

The healthcare aside, it has a low cost of living, there's virtually no crime, the weather is perfect, many people speak English.

I know others who are thinking of Mexico and Costa Rica



Eclectic21 said:


> YMMV as I know of several who sang the praises of the US and then came back shortly. The record is my relative who was promoted to VP as part of moving to the US. He moved back to Canada in nine months. He's had ex-Canada offers but travels there for work as a Canadian resident.


I'm one of those who spent a few years in the US and ultimately returned to Canada. I think Canada is "a better deal" overall, a combination of culture, quality of life, and even finances. As a small business owner I'm much better off in Canada.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I have a friend who's been living in Indonesia through the whole pandemic and he's having a nice time over there (except for quality of healthcare).
> 
> The healthcare aside, it has a low cost of living, there's virtually no crime, the weather is perfect, many people speak English.
> 
> I know others who are thinking of Mexico and Costa Rica


I'm guessing he's in Bali? I loved exploring Indonesia and I'd like to sail around those islands someday. Thailand has a bad rap mostly with Canadians/Americans but I think it has much better food and what I consider better weather (I find Indonesia a bit humid by comparison) Thailand/Malaysia/Singapore should have better healthcare

Nomad Capitalist often recommends Malaysia for being under-rated whereas he calls Thailand over-rated. I've never been to Malaysia but I doubt it has better food than Thailand. There's a lot of good options in central america but the safety in SEA is impressive especially in buddhist cultures (others tend to have more extremism)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> I'm guessing he's in Bali? I loved exploring Indonesia and I'd like to sail around those islands someday. Thailand has a bad rap mostly with Canadians/Americans but I think it has much better food and what I consider better weather (I find Indonesia a bit humid by comparison) Thailand/Malaysia/Singapore should have better healthcare


He's tried a few areas but has been in Bali the longest. He likes it better than Thailand but you're right about food, the food in Thailand is way better and my friend has said the food in Bali isn't the greatest (surprisingly oily and fried, not very healthy either).

Singapore would be great, but now we're talking first world nation. It's a very wealthy place so I would think the cost of living would be just as high as Canada, if not higher.

If I had a ton of money, I think I'd be living in Australia. But it's just as expensive as Canada, obviously.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I had a friend who returned to El Salvador during the pandemic after years of being in Canada. Prepandemic I had looked into residency requirements of UK, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Czech Republic and Slovakia for retirement. These are much more expensive than many parts of SE Asia and Latin America. Years ago I looked into Brazil and Belize because I had coworkers that had ties to those countries.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

londoncalling said:


> Prepandemic I had looked into residency requirements of UK, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Czech Republic and Slovakia for retirement. These are much more expensive than many parts of SE Asia and Latin America.


Portugal is pretty high on my list. Combination of many good things.

You can buy RE in Portugal, spend a few weeks there per year to meet the requirements, rent out the RE to vacationers and go plant tax residency or live in SEA or where ever in the meanwhile. Takes a few years and then you have Schengen region access and Portuguese healthcare to fallback on.

Freedom of much less burdensome tax reporting.. although you can get that elsewhere easier.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

My first choice was Ireland but the 1 000 000 euro requirement made it a less attractive option. Portugal is by far the front runner for me as well. Not sure if I would own any real estate. From a networth standpoint I think the Philippines has low threshold requirements. Aside from not owning RE I am not sure what else may be a trade off. I have a few friends and coworkers that have roots there. One of them a childhood friend. His mom told me when I was young that if I saved a dollar a day I could retire in the Phillipines by the time I was 30. Turns out she was probably right.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

londoncalling said:


> From a networth standpoint I think the Philippines has low threshold requirements.


Nomad Capitalist is always calling Malaysia under rated. You just need something like $100k in their currency. Maybe less depending on the region of Malaysia but things have been changing. You can open interactive brokers there and trade western markets

Why Ireland? I haven't been there but seems like all the Brits complain about weather and want to retire in Spain or Portugal. Once you are in the Schengen you could basically live anywhere in Europe


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

james4beach said:


> ... If I had a ton of money, I think I'd be living in Australia. But it's just as expensive as Canada, obviously.


It may depend on a variety of factors. 

While preparing for a wedding in Hawaii, a bridesmaid's husband was quaffing back a ton of the beer he prefers. He said that for that beer, it was about $90 AUD for a 24 case. Online it listed domestic beer at much closer to the Canadian prices.

He also talked about what he consumed as a rare treat in order to save enough for his kids needs.


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Singapore would be great, but now we're talking first world nation. It's a very wealthy place so I would think the cost of living would be just as high as Canada, if not higher.
> 
> If I had a ton of money, I think I'd be living in Australia. But it's just as expensive as Canada, obviously.


If you had a ton of money your perspective would change as the cost of taxes eclipse the cost of living

I have specific experience that can easily transfer to Australia being commonwealth and earn more than I currently do. I know several people who have. Singapore has tax and business advantages but it's also a short drive from Malaysia and you can domicile a business there without living there full time

Australia is one of the places Nomad Capitalist helps high net worth individuals leave not move to


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

m3s said:


> Why Ireland? I haven't been there but seems like all the Brits complain about weather and want to retire in Spain or Portugal. Once you are in the Schengen you could basically live anywhere in Europe


I spent some time on holiday in the UK and for such a small area there is a lot of subtle differences. Many do like to find sunnier weather for an escape. It's very similar to people on Vancouver island needing to get out of the rain and find some sun whilst in the midst of all that green. Coming from a land locked area I do enjoy the coast but am not a huge beach and sun person. This is likely from spending so much time working outdoors in the summer sun. The idea of laying on a beach all day does not appeal to me. As such a more moderate climate offers more appeal.

Primarily it was about setting up a base in an English speaking location using it as a jumping point to the rest of Europe. However, for the cost requirements to get set up there it is likely not worth it. Much cheaper and easier to learn Portuguese or Spanish. It would make more sense to find a cheaper place and visit the UK if the desire strikes. Regardless, the world is much too big to spend it all in one spot. I think travel provides one the opportunity to expand their mindset and make them more open to different ideas and ways of life.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

londoncalling said:


> I spent some time on holiday in the UK and for such a small area there is a lot of subtle differences. Many do like to find sunnier weather for an escape. It's very similar to people on Vancouver island needing to get out of the rain and find some sun whilst in the midst of all that green. Coming from a land locked area I do enjoy the coast but am not a huge beach and sun person. This is likely from spending so much time working outdoors in the summer sun. The idea of laying on a beach all day does not appeal to me. As such a more moderate climate offers more appeal.


That's like saying California is just laying on the beach all day. I'm not interested in beaches much at all. Spain and Portugal are even larger and just as varied with the mountains in the north and everything in between.



londoncalling said:


> Primarily it was about setting up a base in an English speaking location using it as a jumping point to the rest of Europe. However, for the cost requirements to get set up there it is likely not worth it. Much cheaper and easier to learn Portuguese or Spanish. It would make more sense to find a cheaper place and visit the UK if the desire strikes. Regardless, the world is much too big to spend it all in one spot. I think travel provides one the opportunity to expand their mindset and make them more open to different ideas and ways of life.


Yea that's the nomad part of nomad capitalist.

Sounds like it's more the language concern but even the homeless in Europe will speak English if they need to. Having lived in Germany, Quebec and worked in many countries including Portugal it doesn't take long to learn what you need.

I'd like to have a base camp in Europe and other continents. The variety is nice and so is the flexibility when countries start going rogue on their citizens


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

m3s said:


> That's like saying California is just laying on the beach all day. I'm not interested in beaches much at all. Spain and Portugal are even larger and just as varied with the mountains in the north and everything in between.


100%. Having been to California many times there is more than just surf and sand. The same would be true of most other places. Spain and Portugal and most of southern Europe offer more than just beach life. I had hoped to get to Spain or Portugal this year but the demand for travel, energy prices and inflation have given me pause. Prices will come down if there is global recession. I am not counting on one, nor am I hoping for one either.

My initial search started with Ireland as I had been there previously, and had no personal experience with Spain or Portugal. At the time language was a factor that was quickly erased. Having been to Italy, France and Switzerland, I know anglophones can get by but I think if you are going to live somewhere you should learn the language. Knowing the language maximizes the experience as well as assists in not getting taken for a ride. As part of the research I quickly learned that Ireland would not be the base and it was more likely a European option would be elsewhere and probably one whose languages goes beyond just English.

Germany is also on my list of places to visit.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Wealth Redistribution in Canada - What's Going On?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The World’s Least Affordable Housing Markets






Hong Kong
Australia
Canada
USA


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> The World’s Least Affordable Housing Markets
> 
> Hong Kong
> Australia
> ...


Canada has very affordable housing.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Canada has very affordable housing.


Sure

If you want to live where there's no family doctor

Makes it easy to FIRE though


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Sure
> 
> If you want to live where there's no family doctor
> 
> Makes it easy to FIRE though


Let me guess as I didn't watch the vid ... he only picked a few expensive cities in Canada.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Let me guess as I didn't watch the vid ... he only picked a few expensive cities in Canada.


He didn't pick them it's based on a study

Hong Kong
Sydney
Vancouver
San Jose
Melbourne
Honolulu
San Francisco
Auckland
Los Angeles
Toronto

Thing is there are much better places to live at fraction of the cost. And you can get a doctor and don't wait years for basic surgery


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> He didn't pick them it's based on a study
> 
> Hong Kong
> Sydney
> ...


lol ... Van or To ... knew it.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> lol ... Van or To ... knew it.


Of course for top 10 markets it's a no brainer

I'll rent outside those 2 markets and rent alone is 5x what I would pay elsewhere for better location and climate

Enjoy


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

^ where do you live?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> ^ where do you live?


I'm the first tenant in a very HCOL area in the landlord's childhood home.

Doesn't really matter though I've lived all over Canada and several other countries on different continents.

Far better deals outside Canada now but hard for most Canadians to consider that


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> I'm the first tenant in a very HCOL area in the landlord's childhood home.
> 
> Doesn't really matter though I've lived all over Canada and several other countries on different continents.
> 
> Far better deals outside Canada now but hard for most Canadians to consider that


Do you live in Canada?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Do you live in Canada?


In a few weeks

Vast majority of Canadians have never experienced living anywhere else

Imagine thinking the only thing you've experienced is the best


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Imagine thinking the only thing you've experienced is the best


Sometimes this works in peoples favor saving them money by not chasing "the best".


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Sometimes this works in peoples favor saving them money by not chasing "the best".


Depends how much money you have.

Certain level of wealth can afford to move their assets and establish business and RE in other countries

Target of nomad capitalist is 7-8 figures net worth


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Depends how much money you have.


Maybe, maybe not ... depends if the pursuit of "the best" really makes you happy or not.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

As cainvest mentioned, it really depends on your personal aspirations. Family and friends can play a big part in decision making.

What could they do for someone with mid 7 figures?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Maybe, maybe not ... depends if the pursuit of "the best" really makes you happy or not.


Why do you think so many wealthy Canadians spend half the year in the US if they have the freedom to do so

It's a hostile environment for 6 months. Canadians are in denial of reality


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I have only lived in Canada but have travelled extensively and for long periods of time over in my time. Part of my travel fun is to look at realty prices and other COL factors while I am there. My wife has lived in other countries around the globe. The divergent opinions both present strong points.

It does matter what you want. What one enjoys about where they live is rather personal. From an affordability perspective there are places in NA that are very affordable but come with sacrifices that may not be found elsewhere for the same price. NA cities are going through a period of change and disruption. My family are in a situation where we will likely spend our retirement mostly outside of Canada. It may even be that we relocate and visit Canada. A large factor in this will indeed be related to family. As much as I would enjoy moving to a large Canadian city after I am done my career the reality is it will not be affordable. I can find somewhat similar cities elsewhere for way cheaper. In some areas of what we are seeking they score better than anything Canada or the US has to offer. In other ways they lack. Living in different parts of the world requires some adjustment that just does not appeal to some. It does require a stay beyond a period of a week or two. Some prefer to establish deep roots while others seek experiencing different ways of life and different culture. For others it s just about the weather.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Why do you think so many wealthy Canadians spend half the year in the US if they have the freedom to do so
> 
> It's a hostile environment for 6 months. Canadians are in denial of reality


Really .... only wealthy Canadians snowbird? I know many "regular people" that do that, have spent some time down south myself. I don't see any denial going on and also note some people enjoy winter here.

Point being, you may enjoy [insert foreign country] but not everyone might think "it's the best" even if they haven't lived there. I can tell from an extended vacay if I'd want to live in another place or not.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> I don't see any denial going on and also note some people enjoy winter here.


Canadians make the best of winter but imagine the option to spend the winter in a sunny climate like Portugal or Greece if not for other obligations and relationships etc

We are not naturally meant to live where the air hurts your face. People get defensive of their own decisions are not looking at things objectively from outside of their own situation

Extended vacation is not the same as living somewhere at all but again why do so many Canadians fly to sunny warm locations whenever they have chance if they enjoy winter


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Canadians make the best of winter but imagine the option to spend the winter in a sunny climate like Portugal or Greece if not for other obligations and relationships etc


Depends on what there is for me to do in those places and of course the costs associated with it. If it isn't a place that I can regularly enjoy my hobbies (or find new ones that I can do often) then that's a no go.



m3s said:


> We are not naturally meant to live where the air hurts your face. People get defensive of their own decisions are not looking at things objectively from outside of their own situation


The air hurts your face .... where do you live, Winterpeg? lol
Honestly, you typically have maybe 7-10 days of winter that you don't want to venture outside in most major cities here. Of course those winter storm days can be fun as well.



m3s said:


> Extended vacation is not the same as living somewhere at all but again why do so many Canadians fly to sunny warm locations whenever they have chance if they enjoy winter


Sure it's not the same but I can certainly tell from an extended vacay if I'd want to live in a place. A sunny getaway may be nice but it's often a case of "Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live here" for me.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I know many that love winter and enjoy skiing, snowmobiling, snowboarding etc. I used to enjoy Canadian winter (even camping in a tent during winter) in my younger years. Tough to do on a beach in Florida. Now I enjoy other pursuits that are a little more leisurely. I understand that places @m3s is talking about offer more than just a beach holiday. Looks like @cainvest seeks more than sun to meet those travel needs. There is a lot of culture, physical adventure in the places Nomad Capitalist etc. as mentioned upthread. Extended vacation is a snap shot if you actually avoid the tourist traps and live in the communities. Sometimes this means seeking out smaller places not found elsewhere. Others enjoy the comfort of an all inclusive. I used to question people's decision to go for a warm one week escape after acclimatizing to the winter. to me that would be torture. I now realize for some folks that it is just too long to go without a lot of sun. Even more so, I realized why should I care what people do with their disposable income.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

londoncalling said:


> I now realize for some folks that it is just too long to go without a lot of sun. Even more so, I realized why should I care what people do with their disposable income.


I agree but I am also concerned how it impacts Canada and society. Wealth that can leave will leave when certain policies incentivize them to

Reality for me is I have been living outside of Canada for many years so I am already disconnected from the roots that would hold most back. If I have to wait years to re-establish a family Dr while paying 6 figures tax it's actually cheaper for me to move and pay for better medical elsewhere

US is pushing global taxes and now trying to stamp out second home residencies and second citizenships etc. It is a big problem for the US. Personally I would rather have the freedom to travel without silly 30 day tourist visas and tax complications. In a digital globalized world the tax borders and residencies are out dated

When Canadians/Americans etc push for higher taxes without improving medical access etc they need to realize the wealthy tax payers are leaving.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

m3s said:


> I agree but I am also concerned how it impacts Canada and society. Wealth that can leave will leave when certain policies incentivize them to


This is a concern that I share as well and part of the reason we may relocate entirely in retirement. I am in my heart an optimist but in my head a realist. This country may do well in the future but I am concerned about some things that may be coming our way. Maybe these concerns cannot be fixed by relocation. However, I think there are places where my dollar goes much further. I tend to view things in a range of possibilities. Some of my concerns may not come to fruition or may not be as bad as I foresee.

I also want to be sure I don't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. As such any such move will be well planned and deliberate even though there will be some surprises(some good some bad) and uncertainty along the way. Keeping as many options in play is hardwired into my brain. Perhaps, it is just something I acquired from working in an industry to have a plan in place to enact should S.H.T.F. This is part of safety planning and business planning. For the purpose of this discussion though I am not talking of having to pick up and leave on a moments notice. My post may seem a bit dire but things can erode before one even notices. At that point options become somewhat limited and harder to carry out. Even with choice of home ownership, we selected a lesser house in a better and long established neighbourhood. It is unlikely, that it will experience wild swings in price and more importantly, unlikely to become undesirable. However, if the neighbourhoods surrounding it start to decline we would certainly be ready to get out before we are impacted as well.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

londoncalling said:


> Keeping as many options in play is hardwired into my brain. Perhaps, it is just something I acquired from working in an industry to have a plan in place to enact should S.H.T.F. This is part of safety planning and business planning.


That's why I'm not rushing to buy RE again in any country at least for now in this unstable environment

Rent is so much lower in other countries. When you really think about it you don't need big things anymore. The lighter you are the more adaptable and agile you can be

I'm not looking for citizenship from other countries. Just tax residency. Those rules can change with any government so you have to be flexible


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> Why do you think so many wealthy Canadians spend half the year in the US if they have the freedom to do so
> 
> It's a hostile environment for 6 months. Canadians are in denial of reality


You don't need to be wealthy to spend half the year somewhere warmer. We have modest means and can easily afford to spend 4 - 6 months in southern US or Mexico. The only thing preventing us from doing so right now are 4 aging parents that require assistance my wife's young daughter.

We like Canada and don't want to permanently move, we just want to escape the worst of winter.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Canadian wealth taxes?


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> You don't need to be wealthy to spend half the year somewhere warmer. We have modest means and can easily afford to spend 4 - 6 months in southern US or Mexico. The only thing preventing us from doing so right now are 4 aging parents that require assistance my wife's young daughter.
> 
> We like Canada and don't want to permanently move, we just want to escape the worst of winter.


I think that for most people family ties mean that a permanent move isn't really a serious option whether it is being part of your elderly parents or kids/grandkids lives. 
For me winter is way too much fun and I want to enjoy the snow whilst my legs are still up to it. I think I'd be happiest out west to the Rockies for winter but my good lady is a Quebecer and her Dads health isnt great. Her Mum passed during the height of the Covid shutdowns which really took a toll on her (and my car!) so we are considering moving from the GTA to QC.
Although I love scuba I don't see us moving to a warm place but I like the romantic notion of selling up and being nomadic for a few years while I'm still young but I'd be following the snow. Sorry Im rambling my pre turkey G&T has gone to my head. Anyway everyone has a different story, different motivations. 
Happy Thanksgiving.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Gothenburg83 said:


> I think that for most people family ties mean that a permanent move isn't really a serious option whether it is being part of your elderly parents or kids/grandkids lives.


Yes, my mom will be 70 next year and is increasingly reliant on me. My grandma is also 92, so I'm not sure how much longer she'll be around. A few of my friends have moved away, but some stayed and a few others didn't make it to 40.

I find that married couples are more likely to relocate since they can support each other. It's tougher for single people, especially once you get past 30. It may be easier for extroverts though.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

nathan79 said:


> Yes, my mom will be 70 next year and is increasingly reliant on me. My grandma is also 92, so I'm not sure how much longer she'll be around. A few of my friends have moved away, but some stayed and a few others didn't make it to 40.
> 
> I find that married couples are more likely to relocate since they can support each other. It's tougher for single people, especially once you get past 30. It may be easier for extroverts though.


70 is young but I hate to say it but the health slide after 70 tends to be precipitous. My Dad passed in March in a most horrible post Brexit austerity way in Scotland where a 84 year old man with undiagnosed dementia falls and breaks his femur at a doctors office where no Doctor actually ever appears and has to wait 5 hours with only a glass of water waiting for an ambulance to get him to a "first world" hospital 40 minutes away. 
While it is true people live longer I'm afraid for most of us past 75 is a life of "hanging on" . I know it is harsh but modern medicine (to date anyway) means the life expectancy is increased but for too many it isn't always associated with an increase in life with attendant life quality.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your dad. That's awful.

My mom is still in pretty good health, but I'm the only person around who can help her with stuff, like minor renovations or just moving heavy things.


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

nathan79 said:


> Sorry to hear about your dad. That's awful.
> 
> My mom is still in pretty good health, but I'm the only person around who can help her with stuff, like minor renovations or just moving heavy things.


Thanks, being overseas is a very selfish act but my Dad never wanted me to have his hard life as a farmer. 

I hope your Mam enjoys good health for a very long time.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

One thing we discovered upon buying in Mexico in 2007 is that our annual budget dropped by 40% and our quality of life improved. We still spend 5 months in Vancouver and one month in Europe. That is all included.

Prices are higher everywhere now but I expect the ratio to hold.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

kcowan said:


> One thing we discovered upon buying in Mexico in 2007 is that our annual budget dropped by 40% and our quality of life improved. We still spend 5 months in Vancouver and one month in Europe. That is all included.
> 
> Prices are higher everywhere now but I expect the ratio to hold.


So you're a tax resident in Mexico or you move enough to avoid that? I think you mentioned healthcare before but I forget. Technically 5 months in most provinces means you give up provincial healthcare (varies by province and I doubt they are very strict)

I originally planned to spend the 180 days in Canadian summer to maintain provincial healthcare but nowadays it seems to make more sense to spend enough time in a low tax country that has good healthcare. 5 months or so in Canada would be good

Ideally I would spend more time in Europe but it's a mess for now. Maybe it will be even cheaper there in parts of Europe after this recession/depression. Lots of people retiring in Portugal/Spain or the balkans


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

nathan79 said:


> Yes, my mom will be 70 next year and is increasingly reliant on me. My grandma is also 92, so I'm not sure how much longer she'll be around. A few of my friends have moved away, but some stayed and a few others didn't make it to 40.
> 
> I find that married couples are more likely to relocate since they can support each other. It's tougher for single people, especially once you get past 30. It may be easier for extroverts though.


Not sure if that is true unless you mean DINKs. Once one has children they have that additional challenge of taking their kids away from their friends. Then later it comes a desire to be near grandchildren. My single sister retired in her mid 50s and relocated overseas. Has been back a few times and is off again in the new year. She was fortunate/unfortunate to be overseas during the pandemic and spent a couple of years without returning to Canada. She is currently facing a decision to give up her residency in 2023 and relocate abroad or come back 6 months each year.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> So you're a tax resident in Mexico or you move enough to avoid that? I think you mentioned healthcare before but I forget. Technically 5 months in most provinces means you give up provincial healthcare (varies by province and I doubt they are very strict)
> ...
> 
> Ideally I would spend more time in Europe but it's a mess for now. Maybe it will be even cheaper there in parts of Europe after this recession/depression. Lots of people retiring in Portugal/Spain or the balkans


7 Months absence is allowed in BC and ON. It was introduced in BC the year we decided to buy.

We remain tax residents of Canada. Tax is 13% of gross for the last 7 years. We are permanent residents of Mexico but our tax contribution is the 16% IVA on everything. We claimed the principal residence exemption when we sold our last condo (2 million pesos capital gain) and paid nothing. Tax rate in Mexico is 28% on everything before deductions. This catches snowbirds who sell their real estate as temporary residents.

Europe is very expensive now. A former employee has moved to Portugal (husband is Portuguese) and she is enjoying lower taxes than Canada.


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## Eager Beaver (11 mo ago)

I sometimes get fed up with the way things are carrying on here in Canada. Then I think about all the other countries I’ve visited. Pretty darn sure we aren’t going anywhere else to live upon retirement. I can choose go where I want, when I want in this massive country. I could see myself maybe heading to the maritimes for a few months s year. A change of scenery and pace would be nice.

When I have concerns about the high living costs in Canada I hope to adapt. Likely down sizing my home. Perhaps a residence that is cheaper to maintain & heat. Less property taxes. Or perhaps I’ll take-in a renter? They can pay my annual heat and tax costs.

I think I could live in a small town in rural USA. Some other places I’ve visited include Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Peru, Jamaica, Bahamas, Grand Cayman. I liked the warm weather, it drew me there. Yet after 10 or so days anywhere, I find I’m always happy to come back to a cold Canadian winter.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eager Beaver said:


> When I have concerns about the high living costs in Canada I hope to adapt. Likely down sizing my home. Perhaps a residence that is cheaper to maintain & heat. Less property taxes. Or perhaps I’ll take-in a renter? They can pay my annual heat and tax costs.


Nomad Capitalist caters to 7-8 figure individuals who are leveraging geographic arbitrage. Basically doing the same thing you describe but on a larger scale internationally instead of within Canada. Their taxes are so high that it makes sense for them to relocate and pay for things themselves instead of taxes

There's a lot of talk about wealth taxes in the west and this will only cause more 7-8 figure individuals to take their wealth elsewhere. It makes sense for people who want to become wealthy to move to the west. Having lived in several countries it very different to visit than to move. It takes some time to adjust etc


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## Eager Beaver (11 mo ago)

Thanks for clarifying. I’m pretty new here. Big money and tax complications aren’t quite in my realm.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Best Places I Would Live with $1,000 per Month - YouTube 

Title is slightly misleading but the general gist is that nomad capitalism is possible on a fairly small budget. It does address the issues of emigration and residency. A good listen for those that are interested in nomad capitialism that are not multimillionaires.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

Maybe it would be nice to live in a warm spot for a few months. I'm not the sort of person that pines to go to somewhere tropical when our winter snow flies. 

To move and live permanently somewhere outside of Canada doesn't feel over many years, over time the "spirit" of me. 

I treasure Canada's dynamic multiculturalism and resulting vigor, diversity it brings....no matter how challenging, it can be at times. Some of the Europen countries where we visited were lovely villages, but over time, I would feel quite disconnected deep down inside myself. They aren't countries which really haven't integrated into their history non-native folks...meaning non-white. Let's be honest. It's not in their history, etc. I didn't see it in their museums as an example. Except maybe England of which some immigrated from her former colonies. I'm not for instance a Hong Kong person escaping for a freer society, like what is happening right now... a huge migration that's going on.

So this Canadian-born, wants to enjoy Canada until...the end as home. Lots to learn and explore in a huge country..while also visiting other countries.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

And yes, if I sound patriotic/ a bit nationalistic.....yes. I am in even in my investments, ie. global Canadian firms. :for Canada's economy and jobs for Canadians as well as for others.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

I appreciate excitement of foreign surroundings and all those cultural learnings. To me the 'saving' of money is secondary vs. psychological grounding and feeling rooted inside myself. When a person has spent a good part of life trying to fit into their present (Eurocentric) culture/society, it's nice to rest awhile..forever. 

But it does depend on one's social circles back in Canada also. It's not hard to find opportunities to put yourself into non-profit organizations that are more diverse in our big cities.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

jlunfirst said:


> I treasure Canada's dynamic multiculturalism and resulting vigor, diversity it brings....no matter how challenging, it can be at times. Some of the Europen countries where we visited were lovely villages, but over time, I would feel quite disconnected deep down inside myself.


I lived in Europe and there was lots of multiculturalism. Living there is quite different from visiting the tourist spots. There are places in Canada and US that are predominantly white as well

If you really want multiculturalism you could move to a country that isn't predominantly white. I have a feeling what you really want is the familiarity of Canada and your own culture. Travel is what really opens you up to culture so it's backwards and just something Canadians say

I've live in many countries and enjoy the experience. I think the longer you live in one place the harder it would be to adjust and adapt. It's just normal to me


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

m3s said:


> I lived in Europe and there was lots of multiculturalism. Living there is quite different from visiting the tourist spots. There are places in Canada and US that are predominantly white as well
> 
> If you really want multiculturalism you could move to a country that isn't predominantly white. I have a feeling what you really want is the familiarity of Canada and your own culture. Travel is what really opens you up to culture so it's backwards and just something Canadians say
> 
> I've live in many countries and enjoy the experience. I think the longer you live in one place the harder it would be to adjust and adapt. It's just normal to me


You might have missed the nuances of what I was trying to say....after all, I learned English in kindergarten even though I was born in Canada. So I know precisely what an immigrant feels like...dislocation, etc. I was in ESL for 3 yrs. of primary school... a huge part of non-European non-white Canadians of their growing up especially outside of Toronto, is fitting yourself to be acceptable and anything ethnic /that marks a person different, the person is squashing it. There's enough autobiographies about this. Some of us spent enough time jockeying between 2 languages, different sets of expectations, etc.

As I said, fine living for a few months in ie. Mexico or Chile. But no, not permanently. We were in Japan for 2 wks....lovely, organized country. For such a clean country to be always like that, speaks to me a hierarchical society with many social rules and some rigidity...especially still for women. However I was impressed how hard they preserved their many ancient and historic sites, plus their annual festivals in different regions. China doesn't really do much of the latter at all, and well alot of their sites...are getting ploughed over. In contrast from Japan, in Seoul, it felt easier, freer ...as less "strict" being a woman there..to me. I was impressed how much South Korea had achieved post-war.

For sure about places in Canada very homogenous still, pretty obvious when we cycled through various towns etc. which is why I'm not living in rural area...probably would be bored, even though it would be pleasant. Not given my family background..which has now diversified even more.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

In Europe I dated foreigner and saw her experience in both Europe and Canada. Definitely frustrating at times and I wouldn't say Canada was as ahead as it claims (outside of major cities at least) She always finds a network of people who speak her native language online, often even before we arrive somewhere.

I really enjoy living in a foreign culture but I'm definitely treated differently than she was. Especially by older folks from rural areas and there's lots of those in Canada just like anywhere. Growing up in school in a foreign culture would be a very difficult experience. School is hard enough as is the children treat anyone different


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