# Line of Credit interest rates



## cwhitebn (Jul 24, 2017)

Hey everyone, 

Just curious about what everyone else's current interest rates are on their line of credits. I have an unsecured personal LOC at Scotiabank with an interest rate of 5.95% (prime +2.5) with a credit score above 790. 

I'm thinking this is a good rate but I'm not really sure so thought I would ask around. Obviously everyone will have different rates depending on financial situations, credit scores, etc. What's your rate and what bank is this with? I'm looking into changing this to a student LOC with a better interest rate as I'm working on my grad school program. I remembered getting an offer of prime + 0.5 for a HELOC which sounded like a good idea as well. 

Cheers!


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## mike0shores (Feb 15, 2018)

I have an interest rate same as yours.. I think it's a good rate


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

4.45% at TD.


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## kelaa (Apr 5, 2016)

7.9% at TD. Pooh me.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

3.75% secured at TD if that helps. Different days ahead for us, for sure.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

P+1.0 unsecured. But I am old and in a different situation.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

P+2.0 at TD and Tangering. 

I have not used either account in 15 years, except for that one time I accidentally did an ATM withdrawal from my TD LoC instead of chequing. But I realized the error and went online to EasyWeb the same day and paid it back, so did not incur any interest.

I don't foresee any need to borrow money ever, so I have not bothered to chase banks for a better rate. If I do need to borrow I will just use funds from my margin account.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

RBC just offered me an unsecured LoC at 8%, and I thought I had great credit.

How does one get an unsecured LoC at prime+1% or +2% ?


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

james4beach said:


> RBC just offered me an unsecured LoC at 8%, and I thought I had great credit.
> 
> How does one get an unsecured LoC at prime+1% or +2% ?


My unsecured LOC is left over from when I built a house 15 years ago and needed interim financing. It was at 1% + prime then, and they just left it open. I've used it to borrow to invest a few times since. I have a president's account at TDDI if that matters. Probably not. No idea how they set rates, and it is interesting to see how widely they vary.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My oldest unsecured LoC with PCF used to be at something like 5.7%. I am sure CIBC now that they have re-branded to Simplii has jacked it up.

My HeLoC setup around 2008 used to be something like 2.75% but will have to find a recent statement to see what it has risen to.


Cheers


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

james4beach said:


> RBC just offered me an unsecured LoC at 8%, and I thought I had great credit.
> 
> How does one get an unsecured LoC at prime+1% or +2% ?


Generally, you don't, unless you got it a while back or have a house to secure it against. If you open one now, you are likely looking at 7-9%, even with high income and perfect credit and whatever else.


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## dadaswell (Jan 6, 2016)

We have a secured one @ 3.45%


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

4.45% secured LOC.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

doctrine said:


> Generally, you don't, unless you got it a while back or have a house to secure it against. If you open one now, you are likely looking at 7-9%, even with high income and perfect credit and whatever else.


Thanks. Yes that's the range that RBC was offering me.

Instead I'm just sticking with my TDDI Presidents Account, where I can borrow on margin at 4.75% or 4.50% (secured) depending on the amount. I use this as my LoC.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thought I'd check into this again... has anyone here gotten an unsecured line of credit at one of these low rates like Prime+2% (currently around 5.5% to 6%) which they opened in the last couple of years?

From what I understand above, these things are ancient history, no longer available from any bank in the realm of Prime+1 or Prime+2.


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## Sm5 (Nov 2, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Thought I'd check into this again... has anyone here gotten an unsecured line of credit at one of these low rates like Prime+2% (currently around 5.5% to 6%) which they opened in the last couple of years?
> 
> From what I understand above, these things are ancient history, no longer available from any bank in the realm of Prime+1 or Prime+2.


I received prime + 2 unsecured from BMO about a year and a half ago.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Sm5 said:


> I received prime + 2 unsecured from BMO about a year and a half ago.


Thanks, that's amazing. Did you have to do anything to make that deal, e.g. agree to sign up for something?


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## Sm5 (Nov 2, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Thanks, that's amazing. Did you have to do anything to make that deal, e.g. agree to sign up for something?


Nothing at all for requirements of other products when I opened it, but I already held 3 deposit accounts (personal, no fees), 1 corporate account (small fee), and 2 credit cards with them and have had a 20+ year banking history there. I just set a meeting and requested the line with interest only payments which, from what I recall, was why it was +2 and not +1 (there was a capital repayment requirement if I went with that lower interest rate) and suggested an approximate amount I was looking for and asked if they could do it and was told yes. Filled in the forms, provided financial information and waited. Credit limit in the low $xxx,xxx's and I've never needed or asked to increase it.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I've had an unsecured PLOC from BMO for about 3 years now. Bank thought we would need one to cover short term costs during construction of our house (they were correct). It used to be at 9.08%. whatever that is P+5.25%
I just got two letters from them in the past month.

My limit was increased from 25K to 35K.
The interest rate was dropped to 3.7%. That's prime + 0.

I didn't request any of it, they just did it out of the kindness of their hearts.


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## cashinstinct (Apr 4, 2009)

nobleea said:


> they just did it out of the kindness of their hearts.


Of course they did 
(you don't use it enough, use it more!!!)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ LOL!!!! Or it's the guilt-trip for having to offered an eye-popping "It used to be at *9.08%*. whatever that is P+5.25%" ... if that's not close to a loan-shark rate, I don't know what it is. Especially, only 3 years ago????


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I looked at the letter, it's just a 1yr promo rate.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Surely something must have triggered that 1 year promo-rate - good payment history? Maybe that letter is a sign to tell you now is the time to go in to negotiate for a more reasonable rate?


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## Michael_D (Jul 29, 2018)

Secured at Simplii 4.2%. You are doing well!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Thought I'd check into this again... has anyone here gotten an unsecured line of credit at one of these low rates like Prime+2% (currently around 5.5% to 6%) which they opened in the last couple of years?


I signed up for an offer TD sent me. Unsecured LoC at prime+2, currently 5.94%

So what should I do now that I have this? I'm supposed to build a deck or get a new kitchen, right? :excitement:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Do you first have a house (your own) to build the deck or get a new kitchen? No, then you can send me your $, I can use it ... to fix the roof.

Isn't a LOC to be used for rainy day o/w why did you apply or sign up for one? Free toaster? You do know that having multiple LOCs/cc affects your credit rating (not that you would have any problems given your occupation.)


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

50,000. @ P+0 Retired staff, ha, ha.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Amazing that some people are getting prime + 0



Beaver101 said:


> ^ Do you first have a house (your own) to build the deck or get a new kitchen? No, then you can send me your $, I can use it ... to fix the roof.
> 
> Isn't a LOC to be used for rainy day o/w why did you apply or sign up for one? Free toaster? You do know that having multiple LOCs/cc affects your credit rating (not that you would have any problems given your occupation.)


I don't have a house. Can't hurt to have it around as it's just extra liquidity. In my view I would have failed in my cash and liquidity management if I ever have to use this. For any routine expense or moderate surprise, I try to keep enough cash around. For a big surprise, I would take the money from my liquid investments.

Beaver101: regarding your roof, why not just take some money out of your investments? That's the purpose of investing and saving for the future, isn't it?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Amazing that some people are getting prime + 0


 ... yep, that you and I are subsidizing. I can bet frase is getting a prime rate LOC as a retired "member" of that financial institution.




> I don't have a house. Can't hurt to have it around as it's just extra liquidity. In my view I would have failed in my cash and liquidity management if I ever have to use this. For any routine expense or moderate surprise, I try to keep enough cash around. For a big surprise, I would take the money from my liquid investments.
> 
> Beaver101: regarding your roof, why not just take some money out of your investments? That's the purpose of investing and saving for the future, isn't it?


 ... that's what I'll be doing as I ain't paying unnecessary interest. 

Besides, the financial institution that issued my LOC told me "don't use it" if you don't want to pay Prime + some nosebleed rate (can't recall exactly what ATM) so I'm practicing what they told me.


Btw: I was just joking with the suggestion of sending your LOC my way. Wish you don't have to use your LOC ... ever. :encouragement:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> james4beach said:
> 
> 
> > ... For any routine expense or moderate surprise, I try to keep enough cash around. For a big surprise, I would take the money from my liquid investments.
> ...


OOH ... I've usually saved up for the new roof so not that much would be needed to be taken from investments.

OTOH ... had it been late 2008 to early 2009, using my HeLOC that was running at something above 2% may have been more attractive than selling in a down market.


Nice to have options though ...


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Agree, always nice to have options. The LOC doesn't have to be used and can sit idle for years.

I also like the flexibility of being able to borrow from the stock margin account. That one is 5.25% under 25K but it's secured.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ No margin for me ... I'm debt-adverse. Can't afford it, don't buy it. Can't stand to lose, don't play either.


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## pacman (Sep 6, 2009)

P+ .20 at TD for a secured LOC for me, which I thought was pretty good.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Pretty crazy looking at the move in the prime rate. I see that my LoC is now down to 4.94%

RBC and TD prime rate is now 2.95%


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Does anyone know if I could lose the LoC (or the bank might increase the interest rate vs prime) if I don't have any activity on it for a few years? I really like having this thing and I don't want to lose it.

Since opening this, I've transferred a few dollars back and forth as a test but I've never left a balance that generates a monthly statement.

Would it help if I borrow $20 on it so that the bank registers an outstanding loan? Might it be "use it or lose it"?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Does anyone know if I could lose the LoC (or the bank might increase the interest rate vs prime) if I don't have any activity on it for a few years?


I've never used mine and have had it for many years, still the same ...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Does anyone know if I could lose the LoC (or the bank might increase the interest rate vs prime) if I don't have any activity on it for a few years? I really like having this thing and I don't want to lose it.
> 
> Since opening this, I've transferred a few dollars back and forth as a test but I've never left a balance that generates a monthly statement.
> 
> Would it help if I borrow $20 on it so that the bank registers an outstanding loan? Might it be "use it or lose it"?


LOC incurs interest cost from day 1, no?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> I've never used mine and have had it for many years, still the same ...


Thanks, that's good news!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> LOC incurs interest cost from day 1, no?


I think it should. I only borrowed from it for two days and paid it back immediately, so I don't think it accrued enough interest to show anything. I did not end up seeing any balance on my monthly statement.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Does anyone know if I could lose the LoC (or the bank might increase the interest rate vs prime) if I don't have any activity on it for a few years? I really like having this thing and I don't want to lose it.
> 
> Since opening this, I've transferred a few dollars back and forth as a test but I've never left a balance that generates a monthly statement.
> 
> Would it help if I borrow $20 on it so that the bank registers an outstanding loan? Might it be "use it or lose it"?


Rates can be increased at any time. When I worked at TD, it felt like a semi-regular occurrence.....annually? A small group of accounts (I’m guessing around 20,000) saw their rates go up. The rationale was never clear to me......probably some complex algorithm of unused accounts or changes in the customer‘s financial situation. There was always an appeal process for the customer which I would guess was successful 50%+ of the time.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> RBC just offered me an unsecured LoC at 8%, and I thought I had great credit.
> 
> How does one get an unsecured LoC at prime+1% or +2% ?





james4beach said:


> RBC just offered me an unsecured LoC at 8%, and I thought I had great credit.
> 
> How does one get an unsecured LoC at prime+1% or +2% ?


I would say that your rate depends on the overall value of the services and the "share of wallet" the F/I has of your total business. For example, if you have a mortgage at a low loan to value, fixed income deposits, brokerage, credit card, insurance, etc all with the same F/I and also have a high net worth with stable employment and a high credit score you will receive a better rate than most. I would also think that if your LOC is seldom you may get a better rate as it really doesn't cost the F/I much to offer the service. Perhaps if you said something like "I would like to transfer all of my business to you but would like a P+1% LOC rate" that they may be receptive.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Does anyone know if I could lose the LoC (or the bank might increase the interest rate vs prime) if I don't have any activity on it for a few years? I really like having this thing and I don't want to lose it.
> 
> Since opening this, I've transferred a few dollars back and forth as a test but I've never left a balance that generates a monthly statement.
> 
> Would it help if I borrow $20 on it so that the bank registers an outstanding loan? Might it be "use it or lose it"?


My rates changed all the time with the most noticeable during the last downturn. I hardly ever used my LOC. They made so many changes, when I was going to, I called to the confirm the rate. It was something ridiculous, so I cancelled it. Ironically, when they tried to get my business back they offered me a really low rate. I didn't feel like playing that game.

I negotiated a current LOC with my bank that has all my banking, and I think it's p+1.5 for unsecured. At least it was the last time I checked.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I realize that the rate will change due to the changes in Prime, but I currently have Prime+2 and am hoping I can keep the +2 part of it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

TD sent me a promotion for something called the Fixed Rate Advantage Option on my LoC.

I'm trying to figure out how this works. They say it's 2.99% for one year on the unsecured LoC. Has anyone used the "Fixed Rate Advantage Option"?

From what I understand, this splits the existing LoC into (a) the normal revolving portion and (b) a specific, fixed amount at 2.99% which must be paid in 1 year. This is obviously a great rate, but I think the only way to use it is to agree to borrow that fixed amount today. Since I currently borrow nothing from the LoC, that doesn't exactly help me.

Or maybe I misunderstood the possible uses of this.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Brought back memories James. The FRAO! Rhymes with cow.

you're correct. The frao creates a separate fixed rate portion within the LOC. The frao Then operates as a loan with a fixed rate, payment and amortization And term. Many folks with a home equity LOC would have similar fixed/floating splits. FRAO is also open so it can be paid back at any time w/o penalty.

The FRAO was particularly useful for customers who had a LOC and wanted a RSP loan during RSP season. They could simply borrow the money from the LOC and then fix that amount at RSP loan rates......without having to do all the paperwork and approvals of a new RSP loan. Handy if you’re a late RSP contributor.

And finally, yes, you would need to borrow the money now, or before the offer deadline date. I suppose they are targeting customers with under utilized LOCs. Good for the debt consolidators or anyone else with a specific short term borrowing need.

whats the rate on your revolving/floating portion?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> Brought back memories James. The FRAO! Rhymes with cow.
> 
> you're correct. The frao creates a separate fixed rate portion within the LOC. The frao Then operates as a loan with a fixed rate, payment and amortization And term. Many folks with a home equity LOC would have similar fixed/floating splits. FRAO is also open so it can be paid back at any time w/o penalty.
> 
> ...


Ah ok, so this is a well known FRAO thing 

My regular unsecured revolving rate is 4.45% and this frao is 2.99%

I was trying to figure out if I can use it somehow, but it seems that it would only make sense if I had an imminent need for one specific loan. If they are sending this promo because I am flagged as an under utilized LoC, could there be value in borrowing (for no reason) just to ensure that I keep the LoC? This is a really useful tool to have and I don't have any need to borrow right now, but I also don't want to lose the LoC or its amazing prime+2 rate.

I could borrow the minimum 2K on it, for maybe a month and repay it, if that would help my profile at TD somehow. Would cost me $5.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I don’t think it would help. Can’t recall a time when they closed LOCs without reason. Yes, there are times where rates are increased (often explained to us as risked-based pricing or cost of funds issues). However, there is always an appeal process, and I found they were rarely declined.

im guessing about targeting under utilized accounts. I never worked in The credit product dept. Do you have any borrowings elsewnere? Credit cards, LOCs, loans? we Did have ”winback” offers where the bank ”knew” there were borrowings elsewhere.....presumably through a soft credit check.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> I don’t think it would help. Can’t recall a time when they closed LOCs without reason. Yes, there are times where rates are increased (*often explained to us as risked-based pricing or cost of funds issue*s).


 ... sounds like the headhoncho(s) over at the credit dep't is/are looking for a way to have that big raise/bonus fulfilled. 



> However, there is always an appeal process, and I found they were rarely declined.


... interesting to hear about an "appeal" process on this over at TD. How does it work? Do you have to draft up a business case for the appeal or what are the criteria(s) for the "rarely declined" result?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> im guessing about targeting under utilized accounts. I never worked in The credit product dept. Do you have any borrowings elsewnere? Credit cards, LOCs, loans?


The other borrowings I have at TD are a credit card (rarely used) and stock margin (sometimes used for brief periods). TD has given me a lot of credit and I've probably borrowed 8% of what I could (at the peak peak), but averaging more like 0%.

Maybe I hurt TD's feelings by refusing to accept their generous loans. The credit facilities are fabulous, I really love having access to this margin account and LoC.

Thanks for all your help by the way including the earlier great tips on wire transfers into TD.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... sounds like the headhoncho(s) over at the credit dep't is/are looking for a way to have that big raise/bonus fulfilled.
> 
> 
> ... interesting to hear about an "appeal" process on this over at TD. How does it work? Do you have to draft up a business case for the appeal or what are the criteria(s) for the "rarely declined" result?


Simply walk in and ask for a better deal. The advisor will assess your portfolio and make a decision on whether or not request the appeal. This is where relationships matter. Unfortunately, you’re going to get better service if they know you a bit better. Not any different I suppose than how a restaurant or car repair shop may treat you.

i suppose many here have strong banking relationships and why I’m in favour of having most, if not all, your eggs in one basket. I‘d guess if you have over $100,000 on deposit and been with them for 5-10+ years, you’d very likely get your old, lower rate back, if it was increased for some reason or another. Even more mediocre relationships had success. I found most of the rate appeals that were declined, were due to bad credit scores, and reflective of the risk based pricing. At TD, this type of request was commonplace and one of the areas Where some common-sense applied. The decision is ultimately made by the product team. Pricing on chequing accounts, on the other hand, was very difficult to appeal.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... sounds like the headhoncho(s) over at the credit dep't is/are looking for a way to have that big raise/bonus fulfilled.
> 
> 
> ... interesting to hear about an "appeal" process on this over at TD. How does it work? Do you have to draft up a business case for the appeal or what are the criteria(s) for the "rarely declined" result?


P.S. The largest component for any bonus structure I saw at TD was always based on Customer Experience Scores (CEI). At the branch level, One with high CEI and mediocre revenuse or volume Results would earn more than one with high volume/revenue and mediocre CEI. From what I recall, CEI could drive about 60% of a bonus. Head office folks were structured in a similar way. At the more senior positions [SVP and up?), executives had larger stock-based bonuses, but they had to keep these bonuses years after leaving the bank. 2 years? 5? Or was it that they got paid based on what the stock price would be in 2 or 5 years? Deferred share units. Can’t remember all the details but This was meant to discourage short-term profit decisions. pretty sure it’s all detailed in the Annual Reports.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> *Simply walk in and ask for a better deal.* The advisor will assess your portfolio and make a decision on whether or not request the appeal. This is where relationships matter. Unfortunately, you’re going to get better service if they know you a bit better. Not any different I suppose than how a restaurant or car repair shop may treat you.


 ... that would have been nice but in my case (not with TD though but one of the other big bank), I called and bitched at length (been a client for decades, amounts/accounts on deposit, yada, yada, etc.). But subsequently was told by my "personal financial advisor/rep." to "don't use it if you don't like the rate" plus "even us (bank employees = believe this!) don't get an attractive rate for "unsecured" LOCs." Duh.



> i suppose many here have* strong banking relationships *and why I’m in favour of having most, if not all, your eggs in one basket.


 ... sorry but that's laughable. The last person I could/would get chummy with is my banking rep.... maybe it's different at TD as for a sure thing that have been occurring with the banking industry is extreme high turnover (not up at the ivory tower) but at the clients facing branches. Moreover, I noticed even the physical locations move all around town. The execs (marketing?) are continuously tinkering (or more like can't make up its mind) whether to open/close branches. Better yet, for a bigger bang for their bucks, just install self-serving ATMs at some corner store and let the customers figure it out.



> I‘d guess if you have over $100,000 on deposit and been with them for 5-10+ years, you’d very likely get your old, lower rate back, if it was increased for some reason or another. Even more mediocre relationships had success. I found most of the rate appeals that were declined, were due to bad credit scores, and reflective of the risk based pricing. At TD, this type of request was commonplace and one of the areas Where some common-sense applied. *The decision is ultimately made by the product team.*


 ... so in essence you're saying there's no marketing discretion available for the banking rep. with whom you've a relationship with, assuming he/she is still around town (your home branch). So ultimately, it's futile to appeal if "the product team" determines (by some mysterious calculation or more like pulling a number from the cereal box) that the current market conditions is alarmingly 'high risk', if not the client's risk profile is going to orange alert.



> Pricing on chequing accounts, on the other hand, was very difficult to appeal.


 ... I can understand and respect that (the transparency) as those pricings are "fixed as published" in the marketing materials.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> P.S. The largest component for any bonus structure I saw at TD was always based on Customer Experience Scores (CEI). At the branch level, One with high CEI and mediocre revenuse or volume Results would earn more than one with high volume/revenue and mediocre CEI. From what I recall, CEI could drive about 60% of a bonus. Head office folks were structured in a similar way.


 ... so what are the main components of the C-E-I score? I'm most interested in the "Experience" part ... $2M in deposit or that them customers don't bother/yell at you????



> At the more senior positions [SVP and up?), executives had larger stock-based bonuses, but they had to keep these bonuses years after leaving the bank. 2 years? 5? Or was it that they got paid based on what the stock price would be in 2 or 5 years? Deferred share units. Can’t remember all the details but This was meant to discourage short-term profit decisions. pretty sure it’s all detailed in the Annual Reports.


 ... not to worry. As long as shareholders are happy, all is well. All of that would have figured out by the top brass. Only I haven't.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

CEI was (when I was there) was based on telephone surveys. a branch would gwt feedback from approx 30 customers a month. one iteration had a point score out of 7. A 6 or 7 are good. Anything else doesn’t count. I think the question at the time was something around “do we offer an experience that’s better than other banks”. There was also an iteration called Lei....which asked “how likely are to recommend TD to a friend, real rice or neighbour. In this case, they subtweet “detractors” from ”promoters” to obtain a net promoter score (Nps) A lot has been written about NPS as it’s used by many cos.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... that would have been nice but in my case (not with TD though but one of the other big bank), I called and bitched at length (been a client for decades, amounts/accounts on deposit, yada, yada, etc.). But subsequently was told by my "personal financial advisor/rep." to "don't use it if you don't like the rate" plus "even us (bank employees = believe this!) don't get an attractive rate for "unsecured" LOCs." Duh.
> 
> ... sorry but that's laughable. The last person I could/would get chummy with is my banking rep.... maybe it's different at TD as for a sure thing that have been occurring with the banking industry is extreme high turnover (not up at the ivory tower) but at the clients facing branches. Moreover, I noticed even the physical locations move all around town. The execs (marketing?) are continuously tinkering (or more like can't make up its mind) whether to open/close branches. Better yet, for a bigger bang for their bucks, just install self-serving ATMs at some corner store and let the customers figure it out.
> 
> ...


by “relationship”...I meant business dealings......breadth of products and balances on accounts. While the product team made the decision, it takes the advisor to agree to submit the appeal. this is where “knowing” your advisor a little helps.

advisors do have some discretion on rates for new accounts, but it appears the margins on the total portfolio of the banks accounts are managed centrally.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> CEI was (when I was there) was based on telephone surveys. a branch would gwt feedback from approx 30 customers a month. one iteration had a point score out of 7. A 6 or 7 are good. Anything else doesn’t count. I think the question at the time was something around “do we offer an experience that’s better than other banks”. There was also an iteration called Lei....which asked “how likely are to recommend TD to a friend, real rice or neighbour. In this case, they subtweet “detractors” from ”promoters” to obtain a net promoter score (Nps) A lot has been written about NPS as it’s used by many cos.


 ... oh that ..NPS the marketing-performance crutch.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> by “relationship”...I meant business dealings......breadth of products and balances on accounts.


 ... obviously, "business" dealings based on what you re-iterated with dealings at arm's length.



> While the product team made the decision, it takes the advisor to agree to submit the appeal. * this is where “knowing” your advisor a little helps.*


 ... that's ironic. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or has the banking rep. been trained with the notion that the customer is the peasant/beggar?



> advisors do have some discretion on rates for new accounts, but* it appears the margins on the total portfolio of the banks accounts are managed centrally.*


 ... so what is the point of building a "business-relationship" if you're just a regular bank customer (ie. not a commercial customer)?


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... obviously, "business" dealings based on what you re-iterated with dealings at arm's length.
> 
> ... that's ironic. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or has the banking rep. been trained with the notion that the customer is the peasant/beggar?
> 
> ... so what is the point of building a "business-relationship" if you're just a regular bank customer (ie. not a commercial customer)?


The point is that the advisor is the first point of contact in the decision tree. Not sure why it’s so hard to believe that you’re going to be treated a little differently by someone who knows you a little better. Whether it’s a restaurant, a bank or a plumber. Another example......credit Adjudication decisions are ultimately made centrally but the advisor can choose how much “effort” to put into it. They could advocate on your behalf or they can drop it quick.
in any event, I’ll cease commenting on this thread.....I feel we are on different ends of the “banks are evil and should be destroyed” spectrum. 

I need to go and fight my evil cell phone company now.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> *The point is that the advisor is the first point of contact in the decision tree.* Not sure why it’s so hard to believe that you’re going to be treated a little differently by someone who knows you a little better.


 ... in theory (and the rare occasion happening), that would be ideal. But with the high staff over at branches as mandated by the headbrass (so they can save their own asses for the bonuses), it has become impossible for either the "customer" or the banking rep. to"get to know" either one "a little better" these days. Don't suppose it's the customer's fault for this, is it?



> Whether it’s a restaurant, a bank or a plumber.


 .... no, a banker is different from that of a restaurant or a plumber or a roofer or a barber/hairdresser. Hate to break it to you but my view of bankers have been trained to feel indifferent (so much like ATMs these days) to the "customers" - all they are concerned is the amount of business (whether as sales brought in or retained on the books) whereas the latter either give you the value for your buck as well ensuring that you're satisfied for repeated business (aka customer loyalty). [So much for "knowing" each other better motto. Or one nameless bank here with the irritating slogan "We're Here to Help" BS. Right, to help oneself (other than you).]



> Another example......credit Adjudication decisions are ultimately made centrally but the advisor can choose how much “effort” to put into it.They could advocate on your behalf or they can drop it quick.


 ... well, there you go. And just how much "effort" are they going to put in it if there's really no incentive for doing so or say they really want to help the customer out and go the extra mile, but the central decision-maker overrides that ultimate?



> in any event, I’ll cease commenting on this thread.....I feel we are on different ends of the “banks are evil and should be destroyed” spectrum.


 ... okay. Yes, I would agree for the most part banks are evil as being an evil necessity as they know the customers (btw, shouldn't we be considered "clients"?) are at their mercy for services.



> I need to go and fight my evil cell phone company now.


...you should as you do have the "choice" of not subscribing to their cell-services like I do, fyi.


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