# "“in all of us command.”



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...finally!!!!... NOW I can sleep nights!!!!!
God Bless America!


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> ...finally!!!!... NOW I can sleep nights!!!!!
> God Bless America!


Let me guess - you don't like the new wording of the Canadian anthem so you are going to sing an American patriotic song instead?


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

As an immigrant to Canada, I feel excluded by the lyric "our home and native land". I want it changed to "our home where we did land". :^(

If I'm not mistaken, the lyric was changed to "sons" when young men were dying by the thousands in the trenches of WWI Europe - it was not a slight against women; just that there were not all that many Canadian women being slaughtered in that war.

So, with Minnie Mouse getting her own star, and our national anthem changed to remove the sexist reference, I guess the feminist movement is done? 

( I'm being facetious, there's lots more to gender equality than recognizing a cartoon character, and changing words in an anthem ).


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Userkare said:


> As an immigrant to Canada, I feel excluded by the lyric "our home and native land". I want it changed to "our home where we did land". :^(
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, the lyric was changed to "sons" when young men were dying by the thousands in the trenches of WWI Europe - it was not a slight against women; just that there were not all that many Canadian women being slaughtered in that war.
> 
> ...


Maybe "our home and/or native land" ?
Of course that isn't PC because some are homeless and "native land" might be taken a different way .... maybe just have some sort of interpretive dance?


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Userkare said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the lyric was changed to "sons" when young men were dying by the thousands in the trenches of WWI Europe - it was not a slight against women; just that there were not all that many Canadian women being slaughtered in that war.


I don't particularly care either way, but if it was changed once already there's no reason it can't be changed again. We no longer have thousands of men being slaughtered in wars.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm glad our government is concentrating on the important things.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

18 months before the government and no one could figure out that its grammatically incorrect, not to mention it doesn’t flow lyrically. A simple change to correct all the problems would have been to change it to “our” instead of “us”. 

I wonder how many lawsuits will come to the family courts from daughters who grew up with the phrase “alright guys, let’s go”.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

this further lyric change is scheduled for July 1st:
"With glowing spliffs we see thee rise....."


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

nathan79 said:


> I don't particularly care either way, but if it was changed once already there's no reason it can't be changed again. We no longer have thousands of men being slaughtered in wars.


Sure, but at least we were singing about human sacrifice in relatively recent history, not about a inanimate flag that somehow survived an attack in the early 19th century.

So you're against commemorating something in the country's history?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

It's a good thing most Canadians haven't read into the french version's meaning, because it's full of religious triumphalism and nationalist fervour not to mention french is impossible to be gender neutral without completely revamping the language itself. Not that its actually sung in Quebec anyways, but often sung half and half for bilingualisms sake at official events elsewhere.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I've never accepted the change from "O, Canada, glorious and free" to "god keep our land glorious and free". I feel it should be secular and inclusive.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

indexxx said:


> I've never accepted the change from "O, Canada, glorious and free" to "god keep our land glorious and free". I feel it should be secular and inclusive.


Totally agree.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

None of it seems like a big deal to me but i’m an immigrant so what do I know? My other anthem includes a prayer to frustrate the knavish tricks of Her Majesty’s enemies.

Seriously, it’s about how you feel when you sing the anthem. If the anthem better recognizes the contribution of women to our country then I will feel a little prouder the first time I sing the new version.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I don't intend to get worked up over attempts to "modernize" Oh Canada. The lyrics and tune are pedestrian and repetitive. If you want see a really non-PC version check out the French lyrics for Pete's sake. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...olitically-correct-nightmare-but-nobody-cares What we need is a complete new anthem.

I have always thought that someone should write a Canadian version of Bruce Woodley's "I am Australian" (written 1987). The cadence in the refrain is the same, and there could be similar themes to the original in some verses. Any number of verses could be written to reflect the historical experiences of different groups. For Example:

“I Am Canadian”

_(For First Nations)_
I came o’er the Great Salt Sea
To the forests and the plains
I am the ancient heart
The keeper of the flames
I stood upon the rocky shore
I watched the tall ships come
For o’er ten thousand years I've been
the first Canadian

_(For the early settlers)_
I was a ragged immigrant
A settler ship did bring
I cleared the land
Endured the cold
And waited for the spring
As farmer or as voyageur
I followed the setting sun
Opening up the land for all 
I became Canadian

_(For Women)_
My mother was a factor’s wife
‘Twas she that made me bold.
I taught up in the Yukon
While others moiled for gold.
My daughters were all suffragettes
When the cause had just begun
We won fair rights for women 
I am Canadian

_(For all)_
We are one
But we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream
And sing with one voice
I am, you are, we are Canadian

_(For later immigrants)_
I came from o’er the oceans,
Fleeing poverty and strife.
From Depression and repression
I sought a better life.
I found a land of plenty,
With room for everyone.
This is my home for evermore
I am Canadian.


I’m the cold wind from the tundra
I’m the black soil of the plains
I’m the mountains and the valleys
I’m the forest and the rains 
I am the rock - I am the sky
The rivers when they run
The spirit of this great land
I am Canadian

_(For all)_
We are one
But we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream
And sing with one voice
I am, you are, we are Canadian

_(For Vets)_
I‘ve fought for others’ freedom
In Italy and France
On Juno Beach and Vimy Ridge 
And in the Scheldt by chance.
I was a salty sailor 
On the North Atlantic run.
I flew with Billy Bishop, boys!
I am Canadian


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

indexxx said:


> I've never accepted the change from "O, Canada, glorious and free" to "god keep our land glorious and free". I feel it should be secular and inclusive.


I agree also but then we would have to change the Charter of Rights to be secular and inclusive and we both know that will not likely ever happen.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

OhGreatGuru said:


> What we need is a complete new anthem.
> 
> I have always thought that someone should write a Canadian version of Bruce Woodley's "I am Australian" (written 1987). The cadence in the refrain is the same, and there could be similar themes to the original in some verses. Any number of verses could be written to reflect the historical experiences of different groups. For Example:
> 
> ...


Great anthem. Only problem is that by the time it's sung at a hockey game, it would be in overtime.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> It's a good thing most Canadians haven't read into the french version's meaning, because* it's full of religious triumphalism and nationalist fervour *not to mention french is impossible to be gender neutral without completely revamping the language itself. Not that its actually sung in Quebec anyways, but often sung half and half for bilingualisms sake at official events elsewhere.


 ... good point but then why the rest of the non-French speaking country care anyways for a provincially-themed anthem sung/used as a national anthem.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

m3s said:


> It's a good thing most Canadians haven't read into the french version's meaning, because it's full of religious triumphalism and nationalist fervour not to mention french is impossible to be gender neutral without completely revamping the language itself. Not that its actually sung in Quebec anyways, but often sung half and half for bilingualisms sake at official events elsewhere.




of course the lyrics to O Canada are religious & sovereignist. Calixa Lavallée (1842-1891) was a french canadian musician & composer who composed the O Canada music as a commission for the june 1880 meeting of the ultra-nationalist roman catholic Jean Baptiste Society in quebec city.

lavallée was not composing for english canada as we know the nation today. "Canada" was the early name for french canada. The name did not include any other regions. "Les Canadiens" were long-ago generations of les Patriotes in what is now quebec. 

even in their day, they were already recognized as matchless & immortal hockey players .each:


http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/lavallee_calixa_12E.html


.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... good point but then why the rest of the non-French speaking country care anyways for a provincially-themed anthem sung/used as a national anthem.


In all thy sons command has been a topic for years

Meanwhile the french version is full of gender and it's not even questioned. Not to mention the religious and racial connotations

Canada, land of our ancestors, who carries sword and cross, has epic history of brilliant exploits, steeped in faith. Under the eye of God, the Canadian is a proud race.

Double standard?








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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> Double standard?


 ... nothing new here. 

So jargey, as a Canadians race, we move along. Maybe the lyrics will change again, after your sunny-spot trip ... to something of your liking.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Anthems are a necessary expression of pride in country but almost every anthem in the world is pretty silly. (IMHO)

Erran Bareh Cohen satirized anthems in the Borat Movie _Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan_



> Kazakhstan greatest country in the world.
> All other countries are run by little girls.
> Kazakhstan number one exporter of potassium.
> Other countries have inferior potassium.
> ...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

What makes it necessary though? Nationalism is not much better than any other ism IMHO. It's a belief that you're superior for arbitrary reasons..

Nationalism only exists with the relatively recent development of sovereign nations defined by arbitrary lines in the sand. A step up from monarchies and feudalism none the less

With enough travel you tend to see it as a farce. An anthem is basically a form of indoctrination


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Good point, nationalism is silly. To the extent that the anthem is an expression of nationalism then I suppose it is unnecessary. 

But is it nationalistic to be proud of your country? Does pride always denote arrogance?


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

The Canadian version of "This Land is Your Land" is catchy & gender neutral. And the Canadian version is politically neutral - Woody Guthrie's original version had verses that were a Depression-era protest. However it has the weakness that the word "Canada" (or Canadian) does not appear in it. Which may be odd for a national anthem. Although not all national anthems do name the country. Even the Star-Spangled Banner doesn't - but then "United States of America" does not exactly trip off the tongue as a lyric.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

to the extent that nationalism is silly, i'm female & i'm totally happy with In all thy Sons Command

i've always liked the True North Strong and Free


when listening to other nations' anthems, have y'll ever noticed that they always have this majestic, swelling, kind of cliché type music? like all the composers must have worked in advertising at one point in their lives

calixa lavallée, who composed O Canada - strictly for french canada - an alternate name for early french settlers in the new world was les Canadiens - was a prolific composer. Most of his work has been lost. He was known for somewhat unoriginal commissoned & commemorative works.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> The Canadian version of "This Land is Your Land" is catchy & gender neutral. And the Canadian version is politically neutral - Woody Guthrie's original version had verses that were a Depression-era protest. However it has the weakness that the word "Canada" (or Canadian) does not appear in it.




puh-leeese no. This land is your land, this land is my land, from California, to New York island

what would we substitute, from To Fee Noh to Newfoundland island?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

olivaw said:


> Good point, nationalism is silly. To the extent that the anthem is an expression of nationalism then I suppose it is unnecessary.
> 
> But is it nationalistic to be proud of your country? Does pride always denote arrogance?


It does conflict with my feeling of pride but I tend to clarify such conflicts with "what if everyone?" So what if everyone is proud of their arbitrary piece of land? That seems harmless enough. But what if some go further to identify ethnicity/religion/culture/customs with that arbitrary boundary of land? What about those who live within said artificial boundary who don't identify with the popular ethnicity/religion/culture/customs? Do all Canadians say "eh" drink Tim Hortons and wear a tuque to call themselves Canadian or are we all actually very different in reality? Irrational pride in some artificial construct can lead to distaste for something else. If everyone is proud of their arbitrary nation-state I believe it will lead to more bad than good. It can lead to division, competition, conflict and even war.

George Orwell:



> A nationalist is one who thinks solely, or mainly, in terms of competitive prestige. He may be a positive or a negative nationalist—that is, he may use his mental energy either in boosting or in denigrating—but at any rate his thoughts always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. He sees history, especially contemporary history, as the endless rise and decline of great power units and every event that happens seems to him a demonstration that his own side is on the upgrade and some hated rival is on the downgrade. But finally, it is important not to confuse nationalism with mere worship of success. The nationalist does not go on the principle of simply ganging up with the strongest side. On the contrary, having picked his side, he persuades himself that it is the strongest and is able to stick to his belief even when the facts are overwhelmingly against him.


Albert Einstein when asked if he considered himself German or Jew:



> I look upon myself as a man. Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> puh-leeese no. This land is your land, this land is my land, from California, to New York island
> 
> what would we substitute, from To Fee Noh to Newfoundland island?


I said the Canadian version, written by the Travellers in 1955, and popularized by them in the '60's.

This land is your land, this land is my land,
From Bonavista to Vancouver Island;
From the Arctic Circle to the Great Lakes waters,
This land was made for you and me.

See http://education.davidspencer.ca/wiki/This_Land_is_Your_Land_(Canadian_Lyrics_by_The_Travellers_) for example for the complete lyrics. There are also performances of it on U-tube if you care to look.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Re: M3S *post* above. 

I've been trying to wrap my head around the Orwell quote. It rings true for superpowers who can reasonably perceive themselves to be the strongest side. It is hard to fathom how it applies to middle powers like Canada.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I dunno...i just listened to Pink signing the US anthem at super-duper bowl , and although i didn't particularly like her version (what cant they stick to the original beat?) , The Stars & Stripes still gives me a few goosebumps ... (so does the russian anthem, for that matter...)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

olivaw said:


> It is hard to fathom how it applies to middle powers like Canada.


It's a tough question that I have asked myself for awhile. But your question ties it back to my litmus test of "what if everybody"

With tough questions I will ask what I would want everyone else to do. I would not want other arbitrary tribes to encourage blind faith of being the best while ignoring anything that stands against that emotional pride

Patriotism is unfashionable in Germany for obvious reasons, and I found that to be a better model for others to be honest


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> I said the Canadian version, written by the Travellers in 1955, and popularized by them in the '60's.
> 
> This land is your land, this land is my land,
> From Bonavista to Vancouver Island;
> ...





so sorry! you did indeed say the canadian version but i had never heard of it. Nearly 60 years ago, that's a long time.

still i for one think the This-Land musical score is too jitterbuggy for a national anthem. If you listen to the anthems of other countries, they're all solemn, majestic, unoriginal, pompous, a bit on the camp side. Perfect for hockey games, olympic medals, military ceremonies & slow marches. Me i cannot envision a governor general jiggling along to this-land-is-your-land-this-land-is-my-land.


.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the original french version of O Canada is a peaceful lamb-like warble compared to the bloodthirsty national anthem of france, la Marseillaise:


_Calling all children of the motherland,
Our day of glory has arrived!
Against us the bloody flag
Of tyranny has been raised!

Do you hear their fierce soldiers
Roaring in the nearby fields?
They are advancing right up to our forearms
To slit the throats of our sons and comrades!

Citizens! Take up your arms!
Form your battalions!
We are marching! We are marching!
Let the impure blood of our enemies
Serve to water our fields!
_

https://youtu.be/4K1q9Ntcr5g



.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

m3s said:


> Patriotism is unfashionable in Germany for obvious reasons, and I found that to be a better model for others to be honest


Oddly, I find it refreshing that you can express such sentiments in Canada without much response. Post something like that in a US forum and you'd be labelled a "traitor". To me, this differentiates us from the United States - and is a source of pride. 

I do agree that borders are somewhat arbitrary and tribal but I'm thankful that there is a border between us and Trumpland right now.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

The text you posted is a pretty bad translation of la Marseillaise, and doesn't even match the English subtitles given on the youtube video you quote. That quibble aside, it was written as a call to arms in the midst of a bloody revolution, so it doesn't exactly express "feel-good" thoughts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> That's a pretty bad translation of la Marseillaise, and doesn't even match the English subtitles given on the youtube video you quote. That quibble aside, it was written as a call to arms in the midst of a bloody revolution, so it doesn't exactly express "feel-good" thoughts.



yea that particular subtitled version in the video is gross, vulgar, stumpy, jumpy & cheap

i can't underline too often how a national anthem needs Solemn. Needs Grandiose. Needs Noble Rhythmn. Pomp & Circumstance. High Camp.

could somebody please undertake a search for the nation with the most violent national anthem


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> could somebody please undertake a search for the nation with the most violent national anthem


I'd vote Mexico: 

_''War, war without quarter to any who dare
to tarnish the coats of arms of the country!
War, war! Let the national banners
be soaked in waves of blood.''

''O, Fatherland, ere your children, defenseless
bend their neck beneath the yoke,
may your fields be watered with blood,
may their foot be printed in blood.''_

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/lifestyle/war-or-peace-with-anthems-violence-wins/2132/

ETA:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

paradoxically, it seems that rogue states celebrate peace & love in their national anthems


north korea's is reminiscent of the red army chorus singing to the soviet union, with an added hint of zen.

https://youtu.be/MfX0lAqEiqQ


somalia's is almost pure bollywood. It's too bad some of those cute schoolkids will grow up to join al quaeda al Shabaab in east africa.

https://youtu.be/VqZO4MCa3MQ


myanmar's anthem is all about peace & love. Not a word about the Rohyinga genocide.

https://youtu.be/RzZVf19a0Qg


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> ... If you listen to the anthems of other countries, they're all solemn, majestic, unoriginal, pompous, a bit on the camp side. ....


Yes, I lot of the old ones are like that. The French for national anthem is l'hymne nationale. Many were written like hymns. Some don't even have words - or at least none that people actually sing anymore.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

While nothing is perfect, I for one am happy at the change. I have been singing it this way for years.


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