# Sewer pipes backing up



## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

The pipes have backed up a few times. It smells like crap in the house and there is a small pool of sewer water and floating toilet paper in the corner of the basement. I'd say 10L at most. Maybe more like 6L. 

I believe it's clay pipe to the city line and tree roots have got in there or they are just collapsing or something messed up. 

House is in charleswood, Winnipeg
Lots of trees and long driveways to road. 

Anyways, was wondering if I should just call the rooter company every 4months to regularly snake it (my local plumber wont rooter it)

Or buy my own snake

Or if I should try to get them repaired somehow

Open to comments or suggestions on the pipe issue, and whatever's cost effective. 

Unsure of prices right now because stores are closed.

I think it's $180 to rooter it

Maybe $60 to rent the machine from Home Depot


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You need to know what you are dealing with, so you may need to send a camera down and have a look.

Given the description you gave of clay pipes and trees, it is possible the tiles have collapsed and snaking it out won't work.

In that case, it would have to be trenched and replaced.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

100% agree with Sags. 

Do more research with neighbours, companies resolving similar problems. 

If pipe is clay and broken repeated snaking may just break it up and possibly make it worse. From the description of property and problem seems a good chance replacement is necessary. Do it right the first time. 

BTW, I have a sister in your area. 

G/L


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## jaybee (Nov 28, 2014)

Shea, I think you're probably going to need to trench it out, and replace your sewer laterals based on your description. I had this exact same issue with a rental of mine. Thankfully it was a short distance from the house to the street. It's reasonably inexpensive to have someone come in and do a video inspection, so you know what you're dealing with.

Word of advice though. If there is a need to replace the lateral; get as many quotes as you can. My quotes varied widely. The prices were all over the map! Good luck.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Not disagreeing with any of the advice offered here, but aren't sewer lines and water pipes supposed to be below the frost line?

(In Winnipeg, that's probably about 6 feet down. (2 meters according to the website below) and that probably applies for most cities as well.

Tree roots generally run laterally, not 6 feet down, so there may be another issue with the blockage such as clay pipes (if that was what was used during construction) cracking and collapsing inward blocking the sewer run. 

Replacing the sewer line to the street means a lot of digging and probably a couple days without flush toilets. so other arrangements have to be made..neighbour or a "Johnny-on-the-spot" portable rental..
because if ya gotta go..where are you going to go? 

http://www.winnipeg.ca/waterandwaste/sewage/pipeResponsibilities.stm

excerpt from website above...

*About trees, tree roots and sewer pipes
*
*Roots from trees growing near sewer lines do not actively penetrate sewer pipes and cause blockages.*
Roots gain entry through previously cracked portions of sewer pipes.
Sewer pipes inevitably deteriorate through old age or separate and crack due to ground shifting and heaving.
Sewer pipe is laid approximately 2 metres, or more, deep.
The only tree roots at that depth are anchor roots, as the finer and fibrous feeder roots are located within the first metre of soil.
Anchor roots can co-exist with intact sewer pipes indefinitely without causing blockages.
A sewer line leak allows sewage and air to escape into the soil, creating a ratio of air, water and nutrients at that depth that becomes similar to those found near the surface. Anchor roots at the site of the leak produce very fine, opportunistic feeder roots that can enter the sewer pipe.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

This is a job for the experts. 

You can run a new line inside the old one and avoid excavation. 

First thing is to get a company that does this sort of thing over to look at your situation. They might find that most of existing sewer is sound and only have to repair one or two sections. 

This link explains some of the options:

http://mrrooter.ca/residential-plumbing-services/damaged-sewer-lines/trenchless-pipe-repair

It might cost a bit, but it has to be done properly.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

This is a subject for a plumbing forum. My favourite is Terry Love's most excellent one: http://www.terrylove.com/forums/index.php
There are great folks there with tons of experience. You will find old threads there discussing this sort of issue.

I believe I would try to get it camera'd to see what is wrong and, critically also, what the pipe is made of along its length. Then work from there how to deal with it.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Lots of great replies

I saw that yesterday too agent
MrRooter wanted like $360 bucks to drain the line

Where as a smaller name wants $160 

I tried to find a price to in-house replace pipe. 

Would be nice to get it done, but I donno how bad it is. When I was living there a few years ago the camera scope saw nothing. 
I think maybe his scope was just 25 feet

The issue is like 40 feet out of the property (long driveways)

Which has me feeling like digging is the best option



Although if I have to pay $160 twice a year, that's not terrible... Like $1 a day!

I'm not actually sure what a sump pump is or if it would help

But an extra back up vessel to hold the stuff and help identify when it's getting plugged/backed up would be nice 



I'll pay the $160-190 now as it needs to be fixed

It's hard being away from the city so I can't get a good gauge on it, or see what a camera scope would do

This is also a rental and dad is on vacation!


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

It could be a lot of things. It can also be deposits in the pipe that's are holding back debris. 
If it was my house, I would try snaking it myself first to see how dense the blockage is. 
If I couldn't get it free from there, I would get a video inspection done for it. 
From that, you would be able to make a wise decision.
Good luck and let us know what the issue was.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

So he pulled some tree roots out, about 70ft
he went about 100 ft it was clear after the roots were gone

This is the 4th time in 2 years, March or April this year, last october
so it's a pretty major problem

The basement is slanted to corner and there is a tiny hole so it eventually drains down... I got her just to dump 4L of water and some bleach before she heads out, and it should help clean a bit.... so the bottom 2 inches of the drywall is all covered in sewer water

basement isn't developed, floor is actually bare and has large cracks... its a 4 level split, so only a half usable basement, and its really only for laundry

$170 for camera inspection, will probably do this in 2 weeks when my dad is back in town... will update you when the scope is done!

what i'm thinking the options are:

A. Pay $180 twice a year to snake it
after scope
B. See if in - pipe reconstruction is possible... guessing $2,500 cost
C. Dig up and replace pipe, guessing $13,000 cost

D. maybe get some kind of device so it doesnt overflow onto the corner of the unfinished basement, and do option A.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A word of caution here.............

If roots got into the line, there are broken/cracked clay tiles and they need to be repaired as the damage will worsen with time.

Water leaking down around the foundation will cause big problems over time and perhaps the floor and wall cracks are indications the foundation is settling due to water.

I would also check local municipal rules. Some municipalities will replace the sewer lines that are on city property or broken due to city owned tree roots.

PS...........a sump pump isn't a solution. They pump out excess "clean rainwater" from a container under the basement, that is fed by tile lines around the outside of the foundation.

They aren't designed for sewage backups and there would be nowhere to pump the waste anyways.

Sorry to hear you have this problem, but it is rather common in older areas with a lot of trees and old clay tiles.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

B (if practicable) or C. This is no time to fool around. When it isn't blocked, you are leaking sewage into the ground around your building. I won't even go into the contamination inside that you are risking with each blockage. As someone suggested, see if the city will pay for any part of it, but otherwise get it fixed.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Put in a a back up valve so it does not happen again.

I would look into the city fixing/camering when its not prime time for wages. Reason being if the problem is in the cities line ask if they would cover the cost of having them look @ the line. You pay taxes for a reason


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

SheaButters said:


> So he pulled some tree roots out, about 70ft
> he went about 100 ft it was clear after the roots were gone
> 
> The basement is slanted to corner and there is a tiny hole so it eventually drains down... I got her just to dump 4L of water and some bleach before she heads out, and it should help clean a bit.... so the bottom 2 inches of the drywall is all covered in sewer water


You definitely need to get that fixed before there is any thoughts on selling. 


> basement isn't developed, floor is actually bare and has large cracks... its a 4 level split, so only a half usable basement, and its really only for laundry





> $170 for camera inspection, will probably do this in 2 weeks when my dad is back in town... will update you when the scope is done!


Paying $170 for a camera inspection will only tell you where the problem is.



> what i'm thinking the options are:
> 
> A. Pay $180 twice a year to snake it
> after scope
> ...


You really need a couple of estimates from a plumbing company. 


> D. maybe get some kind of device so it doesnt overflow onto the corner of the unfinished basement, and do option A.


Why is the sewer pipe overflowing back into the foundation in the first place...because of an obstruction somewhere in the line out to the sewer in the street.

Putting in a backflow valve isn't going to solve this problem...those are only good if the entire sewer gets overloaded with too much rain or flood waters.

If the raw sewage is coming back and it's not a flash flood or the actual sanitary sewer is not the cause, then you still have to determine the cause
of the problem, and have it fixed, even if it means replacing the entire line in most cases.

If it has clay pipes, no plumbing company will guarantee their work, so it probably all has to be replaced. 
Basement dug up and sewer pipe connected to the toilet stack, and a 6 foot trench dug out to the street sewer and the
city has to do their connection of the sewer pipe to their main sewer trunk line.

If it was my place, I wouldn't be satisfied with just camera inspections with leaking sewage coming into my basement..that could be a serious health hazard.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

A friend of mine sewer pipes runs house to house. 100 ft of her property the pipes have partly collapsed. Her sewer has backed up 4 times in the last year. Rick Purchuck operations manager for The town of Kenora says its not their problem because its on private property & she needs to spend 100,000 to pay for a new line. She does not have a back up valve & sewer from the house next door comes right into her house when it backs up & no paper can be used in toilets. If she was not home for a day or 2 her house could get could get a lot of sewer in it. In a lot of areas in Kenora the sewer pipes are old & need replacing. Instead the town about spends 100,000 a year on flowers to make the town attractive for tourists & another huge amount of coin for fire works so they can attract the tourists from Winnipeg.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Agree with your last post Carverman. Needs a proper fix. 

Good luck Sheabutters.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

I've had this issue with two houses, both with the clay pipes. The simplest solution, if cameras show the pipes to be in good shape, and intact, is to remove the tree(s) from the sewer line area. After the tree is cut down, drill into the remainder of the trunk, and pour in epsom salts (tip from MNR) to kill the tree's roots. This, of course, only works if the tree is on your property. If the tree is on city property, call the city and lay it at their feet.

My neighbourhood (late 40s builds) has been notorious for this issue, but rarely does anyone replace the clay pipes as they often still look like new, except for the intrusion of the very fine roots at the joints. Nothing was used to seal the joints.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

lonewolf said:


> A friend of mine sewer pipes runs house to house. 100 ft of her property the pipes have partly collapsed. Her sewer has backed up 4 times in the last year. The town of Kenora says its not their problem because its on private property & she needs to spend* 100,000 to pay for a new line*. In a lot of areas in Kenora the sewer pipes are old & need replacing. Instead the town about spends 100,000 a year on flowers to make the town attractive for tourists & another huge amount of coin for fire works so they can attract the tourists from Winnipeg.


100ft on her property, that's about 10 sewer pipes. She needs to find reliable people to provide proper estimates, not someone's guess-timate. 

There is no way it should cost that much to replace 10 sewer pipes, unless the trunk line sewer is bad too, in which case it's the town of Kenora that has to find the money.





> The traditional dig-up-and-replace method requires excavating a long, deep trench or trenches to remove the old pipes and install new ones. This method can cost $50-$250 or more a foot, depending on the length and depth of the existing pipes, local rates and the ease of access.
> 
> Replacing an average sewer line from the house to where it connects to the public sewer system typically costs $3,000-$6,000. However, if the project is complex and/or if the connection to the public system is in the middle of the street it can cost $7,000-$25,000 or more.
> 
> CostHelper readers report paying $4,500-$13,000, or $50-$100 per foot traditional replacement of 50'-100' of sewer line, for an average cost of $7,493 or $106 per foot.


So lets say worse case $100 per foot , that's about $10,000.

Planting flowers on the streets to attract visitors isn't going to do much good if there is a stench of sewer everywhere you walk.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

RCB said:


> I've had this issue with two houses, both with the clay pipes. The simplest solution, if cameras show the pipes to be in good shape, and intact, is to remove the tree(s) from the sewer line area. After the tree is cut down, drill into the remainder of the trunk, and pour in epsom salts (tip from MNR) to kill the tree's roots. This, of course, only works if the tree is on your property. If the *tree is on city property, call the city and lay it at their feet. *


Good luck with that. 

I have a 50 year old Norway maple that was damaged in the ice storm back in '98. It was split down the middle and possibly dangerous. 

Called the city of Ottawa (forestry division), several times since then, they have lopped off 1 big limb and cabled the two split sides together above the split, 
but still refuse to cut it down, if it still produces green leaves, and it's not a Ash tree that the Emerald Ash borer beetle has decimated these trees in this area. 

Just trimming the branches cost a fair bit of money these days. I'm having a sugar maple trimmed on my property in the back yard this fall to remove some dead branches..$850 + tax to do that from a tree specialist company. 

A neighbour had what I would call a very tall 80-100 ft and "possibly dangerous" huge silver maple in her back yard. In a wind storm, part of it could broken off and
fallen on her house, or the neighbours causing extensive damage.
She called in the cheapest estimate tree removal company, cost her $5000 to take down the tree, but they still left the huge stump in her back yard. 

Grinding the stump down and clearing out the massive roots would have cost her a lot more, so she just left it at that.


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## GreenAvenue (Dec 28, 2011)

RCB said:


> I've had this issue with two houses, both with the clay pipes. The simplest solution, if cameras show the pipes to be in good shape, and intact, is to remove the tree(s) from the sewer line area. After the tree is cut down, drill into the remainder of the trunk, and pour in epsom salts (tip from MNR) to kill the tree's roots. This, of course, only works if the tree is on your property. If the tree is on city property, call the city and lay it at their feet.
> 
> My neighbourhood (late 40s builds) has been notorious for this issue, but rarely does anyone replace the clay pipes as they often still look like new, except for the intrusion of the very fine roots at the joints. Nothing was used to seal the joints.



Had similair issue like this; the salt on the tree stump (Epson) works like a charm. It takes time but it works. 
Town where I live also said: "Never happens with our sewer system, never heard any complaints", well it happened to us as well, our tenants complained about it all the time. So I called the house inspector for advice and he said: snake it out yourself. And that is what I have been doing, I rent an electric snake every year in March and spent two weekends cleaning up the dirt. Smells like rotten corpses but I've been doing it for 7 years now and haven't had an issue since. I guess every house has it's own issues, when I called the town they also said: "it's not your our fault, you are the owner of those properties, you deal with it". Well I guess you can't rely on them to much.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

lonewolf said:


> Put in a a back up valve so it does not happen again.
> 
> ...


A backup valve isn't going to help. A backup valve keeps an overloaded city sewer from backing up into your home. OP's problem is that his own sewage can't get out to the city sewer due to his blocked main drain.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

The OP could also call a plumbing company that has a Sewer Jetter, which is a pressurized hydraulic jet of water to clear out obstructions such as grease buildup,
if people have been dumping grease down the drains, it ends up in the sewer run eventually and you can get grease buildup on the sewer line that will prevent sewage from flowing out to the main sewer. This is the other common problem besides tree roots.

These machines pressurize water to 3000 psi. Of course the sewer line needs a cleaout hole access to connect the machine.


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