# For Manitobans Opposed To Bi-annual Time Disruption



## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

There is a movement afoot to do away with the twice yearly disruption of DST. 

See www.stoptheswitch.com/ .


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I'm in.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Sounds good to me!


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Early indication*

The Winnipeg Sun has run a poll. With about 1500 replies, about 27% favour status quo and 73% favour abolishing DST. 
My personal opinion is the impulsive first repliers give the results a higher value than the less impulsive majority but still there is hope.
The provincial government that would go against a majority would do so at their peril.


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

In March, this appeared in the Dauphin Herald.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I worked in IT for 35 years, and I can attest to the huge disruption this has on data centre operations. Resetting the TOD clock on the mainframe is a huge disruption, and it happens twice a year. Can't speak for the server farm, but I assume it's the same issue. It's way past time that we did away with this stupid useless waste of time.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

The last time our shop did a lot of testing was when the US changed DST and our jurisdiction adopted the same changes. I say "testing" because the last TOD clock reset/shutdown that I am aware of was about two decades ago.


Cheers


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*A bit of posy*

Time changes are a *****; 
Its time to "Stop the switch." 
So that this time next year 
Nirvana will be here!


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

This initiative is flawed because DST is going nowhere. Why is the only option to stop a time change to abolish DST, why isn't it asking people to stay on DST all year around. Why DST? Because people don't like sunset at 8 pm in the summer. And 6 pm in the spring/fall. The extra hour makes a big difference in quality of life, especially for non-farmers, of whom are now the vast majority of people, even in Manitoba. People work in the summer, they don't harvest and want to get to bed early and want that 3:30 AM sunrise.

And people in the cities write the rules, not farmers. There are initiatives on the west coast to abolish the time change as well, but to remain on DST all year. BC will only do it if Oregon/Washington/California do as well, and that is perhaps what will happen in a few years. Almost every jurisdiction that has tried to abolish DST has had to go back.

We live in the north. Someone is going to be pissed off by either ST or DST all year around. But most polls show 80%+ support for DST over ST as a single time zone.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

We could meet half way and switch by 1/2 hour and be done with it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

doctrine said:


> This initiative is flawed because DST is going nowhere. Why is the only option to stop a time change to abolish DST, why isn't it asking people to stay on DST all year around. Why DST? Because people don't like sunset at 8 pm in the summer. And 6 pm in the spring/fall. The extra hour makes a big difference in quality of life ...


Is this something Manitoba specific?

Most I know that don't like the time change don't care about the extra hour and see DST as the problem. Not that I've done a survey.

There may not be a choice though as it seems the US states that have passed legislation and are pressuring congress to make the change seem to currently be favouring permanent DST but mostly need changes by Congress.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-ne-florida-daylight-savings-time-20181030-story.html
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/06/proposition-7-voters-back-bid-to-end-time-changes/
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-po...nent-daylight-saving-time-congress-ruined-it/
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/411351-daylight-saving-time-costs-more-than-its-worth


It seems that Arizona, unlike Florida - decided on standard time. Interestingly, somewhat northern states Indiana and Michigan have switched between standard time and DST while Hawaii seems to have only had permanent DST during WWII (called "Hawaiian War Time").




doctrine said:


> ... There are initiatives on the west coast to abolish the time change as well, but to remain on DST all year. BC will only do it if Oregon/Washington/California do as well, and that is perhaps what will happen in a few years ...


IMO it is the perceived disruption of being on a different time than big markets like the US that that wanting to keep the time switch going are concerned about.

It seems that parts of BC ignore DST while in Saskatchewan, the city of Lloydminster is the exception that changes it's clocks.




doctrine said:


> ... Almost every jurisdiction that has tried to abolish DST has had to go back.


I can find references to areas that killed bills (Alberta's was a private member's bill) but have yet to find any Canadian jurisdiction that has moved away from DST then changed.

I can also find references to sixty nine countries that no longer use DST, with several confirmed to be using standard time instead of being permanently on DST, like almost all of Saskatchewan is.




doctrine said:


> ... Someone is going to be pissed off by either ST or DST all year around. But most polls show 80%+ support for DST over ST as a single time zone.


Do you have some references to these polls?

So far the 80% references seem to be for the EU, where it seems the countries may be allowed to choose between permanent standard time or permanent DST.
https://qz.com/1375622/eu-citizens-voted-to-abolish-daylight-saving-time-in-a-landslide/

There's a group in the US that wants to stop DST whose poll of 1,147 people says that 84% of Americans want an end to the clock changes and permanent DST.
https://enddaylightsavingtime.org/poll-84-of-americans-see-the-light-and-want-longer-days/

Trouble is ... beyond the small sample size, a 2017 survey says that 55% aren't affected by the change and that the limited high quality polling typically as more Americans in favour or without an opinion.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/10/politics/america-stop-complaining-daylight-saving-time/index.html


Cheers


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Manitoba MLAs take note*

A scholarly post Eclectic12. It gives substance to this thread.

Of less substance to this thread, but maybe more to my sitting MLA, is my determination to vote at the next election (no matter what else), for anyone who promises to implement uniform time year-round. Daylight or standard, it doesn't matter to me.
Otherwise, such prospective MLA should start looking for a different line of work.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

That a fair number of US states are considering or passing legislation seems promising to me. 

With studies showing there are side effects and the original purposes either have dropped to near zero (ex. more daylight hours to collect bug specimens or save energy), the only reason that I can think of to stay business as usual is to avoid business disruptions. The possibility of the US changing as well should make it easy for whatever Canadian justification to make a similar move.

I suppose it is possible that enough voters communicate this issue as their top priority to go before the US does ... but I'm not sure any gov'ts but Saskatchewan are willing to do so.


Cheers


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Retired Peasant said:


> We could meet half way and switch by 1/2 hour and be done with it.


Being a half hour out of sync would create even more problems.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I like daylight savings time. It makes perfect sense to have in Canada, and especially up here in northern Canada, where the sun would rise way too early without DST.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

peterk said:


> I like daylight savings time. It makes perfect sense to have in Canada, and especially up here in northern Canada, where the sun would rise way too early without DST.


Yup, DST better for summer evenings don't really care about the winter, mostly dark anyways.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Prairie Guy said:


> Being a half hour out of sync would create even more problems.


Not if we *all *switched by 1/2 hour.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Retired Peasant said:


> Not if we *all *switched by 1/2 hour.


True. Any change would work if everyone was on board. But, the reality is that we probably won't change unless the US does. Then we'll change to sync up with them.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Yep, just like when George Bush decided to change _when _the time change would happen, and we followed. He missed an opportunity to just do away with it.


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Changes in EU imminent*

https://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/eu-scraps-dst.html


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Amendment defeated*

On Thursday April 11, the Manitoba Legislature defeated an amendment to the Official Time Act which would have eliminated DST in Manitoba by a vote of 34 to 5. Cliff Graydon, who valiantly led an uphill battle against party lines, remains optimistic in the light of a similar move under consideration in Ontario.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Good to hear. Pretty overwhelming numbers.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

With the number of US states moving towards it ... it will happen eventually IMO. :biggrin:

It might wait until enough US feds to change the rules and enough states switch, though. 


Cheers


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Consolation of sorts*

​https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...y-year-round-if-liberal-mpps-bill-passes.html
Story includes Ontario poll results.


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Last kick at the cat*

For those like me, opposed to bi-annual changes, the upcoming provincial election is probably the last chance to get amendments. The polls are predicting a Conservative majority and since they defeated a private members Bill last April, it means status quo for the next four years.

It is now or never ! Lobby your MLA candidate before an election, not after​ .


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

stantistic said:


> For those like me, opposed to bi-annual changes, the upcoming provincial election is probably the last chance to get amendments. The polls are predicting a Conservative majority and since they defeated a private members Bill last April, it means status quo for the next four years.
> 
> It is now or never ! Lobby your MLA candidate before an election, not after​ .


I believe it'll be a total non starter due to the US states below us not changing. If they do down south, manitoba will likely follow.


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## stantistic (Sep 19, 2015)

*Hope lingers*

As predicted by the polls, Manitoba has returned a conservative government which probably means "twice a year time switches" will be imposed for the next four years.
However, I am consolled by flickers of hope eminating from forward thinking BC.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-government-survey-says-its-time-to-move-forward-on-dst-not-fall-back


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Move to BC then if you find it so intolerable.


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