# When to buy house, kid living with mom



## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

I am 24 Years old

I make 55k/year grad university, like my job, has pension

I'm dealing with Presidents Choice

I have $20,547.18 in their TFSA at 1.5%

$21,706.94 in their Savings Plus at 1.35%

And 7141 ML Fidelity Cdn Large Cap $21,824.87 in RRSPs (manulife)


So if I use my RRSPs and all my money on a downpayment, I'm looking just over 60k Down

I was pre-approved for 260k

(320k house if i wanted)

HERES WHERE I NEED HELP!

I live at home with mom RENT FREE, and I have no major problems, she does laundry, pays all bills including food, and cooks for me
which is all great!
but i'd also like to invite some friends over for some beverages, get a dog, and one day meet a lady



When is the best time to move out????

I live in manitoba, I was looking at some 220k houses, which seem to sell for 250k
and the 260k houses seem to sell for 280k

So I was looking at getting a 280k house, better perceived value to me


I get about 1,500 a paycheque, and my expenses are very limited
my car is paid off
150month/gas(car)
30month/cell
100/month car insurance(paid lump sum to save interest)
50/month nutrition aids

lets say i spend 500 a month, so i still get 2500 cash a month
i honestly never go out, and I train for triathlons, which i already have all the best gear and supplies



So 60k is 20% of 280k is 21%


What would be the right time to buy a house
and of course the fastest way to pay it off?

If I stay at home for another year, I think I will have close to 100k... but I assumee that same 280k house would be worth 300k... but, thats 33% down


Any thoughts of what I should do?


Stay at home until age 30...?? i'd have like over 200k cash
then buy house outright, dump money in rrsps and retire at 40? haha


someone tell me what to do!!!!!!!


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

First off, move out as soon as you can.

Find a rental and rent for at least a year on your own. This is VERY important. First you need to learn what it really costs to live on your OWN, no roommates, definitely no girlfriend, pet would be good (as it will teach you how much work it is to take care of someone else). 

This will teach you how much work it is to take care of yourself. People who've always had someone take care of them at home usually have marital problems later because they expect their spouse to continue taking care of them in the future. It's a lot of work to cook, clean, shop, etc. You will build up your credit rating as you play your own bills on time as well.

After your first year, move to a different rental. Moving gives you experience with different living places. You'll learn what you like/don't like in a house. Many people who buy a place right off the bat find that they soon don't like things about it and start expensive, and never-ending renovations trying to fix the problems. Learn what you like ahead of time before choosing a more permanent place of your own.

Soon after moving out, get a nice gift for your mother (if she still has a mortgage, pay down a SIGNIFICANT amount of it for example). While you've been saving, it's been costing your mother a lot (that you'll soon start to appreciate) of money for you to do it. If she doesn't have a mortgage, a nice trip or something may be good.

After at least two years of independence, you may find your life has changed. You may want to move to a different province, job may change, you may be in a relationship, etc. Re-evaluate then.

You've, so far, led a very sheltered life. Nothing wrong with that, but the world is a lot harder than you think. There is a reason birds push their young out of the nest, it's not because they are mean, it's about survival. Birds who don't get the push are more likely to get eaten in the future.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> Birds who don't get the push are more likely to get eaten in the future.


This whole post is AWESOME but that quoted part is particularly good (says someone who left home at 16).


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

You seem to be doing well for yourself but I think it's well past time to leave the nest.

I completely disagree with using every penny of your savings to buy a house. You should have money saved for a rainy day, in cash as you have now. It would be very irresponsible to put all that money into a house - what if you lose your job the day after? How will you save any further money when all your money will be going to feed middlemen, mortgage etc?

Start out by finding yourself a good quality apartment in a part of the city you enjoy living in. Then continue to save for a new car, down payment etc if that is what you want to do in the future. You should aim to save 20% DP which would be about $50K just for the DP. Then you have all the other expenses such as moving, setup costs, start hydro, buy furniture etc etc. So you'll need to save another $5-10K for that stuff in addition to the DP. All of this needs to be separate from your savings tiers, which are explained in my sig file.

One step at a time. Save the money first before spending it. But do get your own place.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I don't see anything wrong staying home a bit longer, but what is rude IMHO, is that you're working full-time, yet not contributing with any of the expenses nor household chores.

You are not a 'KID' anymore, you're an adult!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

"Just A Guy"'s comment is fantastic. Couldn't agree more.

You are pretty young - do you want to stay in the same city forever? Renting to try out neighbourhoods is never a bad idea.

Definitely rent first.

I wouldn't worry about the timing though - if you move out soon that's fine, but if you stay at home for another year or whatever, no big deal.


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

You should probably have a conversation with your mother with regards to what her expectations are. Maybe she likes doing your laundry and paying for your food and won't mind if you stay another six years.

Then again, maybe not....


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Guigz said:


> You should probably have a conversation with your mother with regards to what her expectations are. Maybe she likes doing your laundry and paying for your food and won't mind if you stay another six years.


Maybe she does his laundry, etc to keep him at home, so she doesn't have to face Empty Nest Syndrome!

Toronto.Gal's right, Shea. Don't want to be offensive, but you seem to be taking advantage. You are perfectly capable of helping out. I'm 22 and I still live at home, but I buy groceries every two weeks or so, do my own laundry, wash dishes (or help wash dishes) most nights, cook or bake sometimes. I'm no saint, but they are doing me a favour by letting me stay, so it is only fair to return the favour or at least do your own share of the household work. Please contribute for the rest of the time you stay with your mom.

I agree with other posts... definitely go rent a place and live on your own for at least a year before buying. You need to experience living on your own before you commit most of your current savings plus a lot of your future income to a house. And when you do reach that point... make absolutely sure that you see yourself living in that place for many years. Otherwise it's not worth it to pay all those closing costs, realtor fees, etc just to sell a couple of years later. And take the risk of losing your shirt if your desire to sell coincides with a housing crash.

Your situation's not all negative though... great job saving all that money! Looks like you've resisted the urge to waste all your extra cash on toys and disposable crap.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

By the way - with regards to the thread title - if you are 24, you are not a kid.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

+1 Definitely not a kid
+1 don't spend all of your savings on a house; you need to have an emergency fund, retirement, etc. 
+1 Do something really nice to your mom. It doesn't at all need to be a significant financial gift, but maybe a spa day, nice dinner out, help out around the house etc.

If you really want a house and to move out how about getting one with a basement suite and living in the basement suite and renting out the rest of the house. You get your house but your cost will be less. Until you have a family of your own, you likely don't need all that space.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> if you are 24, you are not a kid.


I said that already, but glad you're repeating it! 

Maybe next time the OP is hungry, he will buy & pay for the groceries and maybe cook a meal for his mom too! [and perhaps make it a weekly habit from now on!]

No need to wait until you move out to learn to be independent & to behave like an adult [rather than a spoiled 'kid']. 

Fantastic job saving though and at this rate, you're probably looking at freedom 45! :encouragement:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> I said that already, but glad you're repeating it!


Ha - I read your post, but I guess I skipped the 2nd line. Well said!


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Are you Italian by any chance? 

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/mamas-boys-of-the-bronx

If it works for everyone involved, I don't know why there is such a big push to move away from home. I get that part of growing up is leading your own separate life, but while it works, why not make the most of it?

I agree, you should be contributing, but this doesn't necessarily mean financiall *unless it is required*. If your mother is well off financially, it's likely she doesn't want your rent. Maybe do the laundry/cook/clean instead?

Delaying moving out can set you up extremely well financially, so I'm always surprised to see such a push to move out on a financial forum. It's different if you're unemployed, lying around all day waiting for your meals to be brought to you, but it sounds like you've got your affairs together, and are saving $25,000+/year with your living arrangements. 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That being said, Just A Guy had some great advice in his post with respect to when you actually do decide to move out. Would definitely recommend renting prior to buying, among many of the other things he said.


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## caricole (Mar 12, 2012)

> HERES WHERE I NEED HELP!
> but i'd also like to invite some friends over for some beverages, get a dog, and one day meet a lady
> When is the best time to move out????


The time to leave the nest is NOW

You will learn as you go...the coocking, the cleaning, the laundry etc.

At the age of 24 you dont meet «A LADY»...you meet «A GIRL» :encouragement:

After spending an evening at the restaurant, the movies, a show, a concert or anything of interest to both of you, there is only one question left

Where do we go «YOUR PLACE OR MY PLACE»..:02.47-tranquillity:.if you propose «TO MY MOTHERS PLACE» :hopelessness: she most probably will RUN FOR COVER...

After the «GIRL» has a couple of kids of 10, she becomes «A LADY», unless you want to court ROYALTY....

my opinion


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Dmoney said:


> If it works for everyone involved, I don't know why there is such a big push to move away from home. I get that part of growing up is leading your own separate life, but while it works, why not make the most of it?


I don't disagree with your thoughts at all - however the OP did express some motivations for going out on his own.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I agree wih pretty much everything JustaGuy said. Rent, learn to live independently, and learn what you like/dislke in a home before sinking a few hundred grand into one. And if you are lucky in love your lady will have her own ideas about what makes a house a home. (if it weren't for the dog I would suggest apartment living - a house is such a waste of real estate for a single person.)

PS: IMHO your Mom should have had "The Talk" with you about paying rent as soon as you had a steady job and were debt free. But some Moms are soft that way.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Are you guys telling him to move out and/or contribute to his mom because you honestly think it's best for him, or because you're jealous that he gets to live for free and save all his money? I think he has a really good thing going, he has an opportunity to save money that he'll likely never have again. From a purely financial point of view, he should stay put and continue socking away that money. And as for his mom, he's only taking advantage of her if she's poor and struggling to support him, if she's comfortable financially then I wouldn't call it taking advantage of her. At least he's saving his money, many people whose parents let them live rent-free spend all their money on financing a new BMW M3 or something. I would stay put for a few more years.



> So if I use my RRSPs and all my money on a downpayment, I'm looking just over 60k Down
> 
> I was pre-approved for 260k
> 
> (320k house if i wanted)


This is not true at all, just because you have 60k cash and can get a 260k mortgage, does not mean you can afford a 320k house. Yuo have to take into account other considerations. First, there are closing costs associated with buying a house, you need a few thousand for that. Second, you need to consider that mortgage rates have nowhere to go but up. And of course you need to keep a few grand lying around in case your house needs emergency repairs.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Sherlock said:


> Are you guys telling him to move out and/or contribute to his mom because you honestly think it's best for him, or because you're jealous that he gets to live for free and save all his money?


I personally think it's an essential part of growing up that many people don't always face. There is a lot of challenges, dare I say hardships, that need to be faced and overcome. If you never face them, get into a relationship, then get married and move out on your own, for example, think of the stress you'll put on a relationship. Then tell me it won't play a role in the divorce rate.

Many of my friend don't know how to cook, they eat out all the time. Never mind the nutritional issues that raises, think of the financial implications.

Getting into bad relationships is also common...living on your own makes you face insecurities, and may keep you out of destructive codependent relationships...

I could go on, I've known lots of people, with lots of problems that came from not living on their own...I'm not saying those who moved out are perfect by any means, but they developed differently than those who didn't. One thing is they tend to be self resilient rather than expecting someone else to take care of them.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I agree with sherlock-The world has changed for twenty somethings & for the matter thirty somethings in some cases(and it's not from lack of ability or intelligents)-you sound self sucffient- ALL PEOPLE are getting priced out of the market by wealth outside of canada(most cities)Your laying your foundation out right now(view yourself like a corporation)and your in a GOOD spot imo.24 aint old....don't tie a axe to your backside if you don't have to.StaRT DOING YOUR LAUNDRY thou.As far as girl go who cares!(most everyone is poorish in there 20s)When your 30,if you play your cards right you will blow past your peers(a hundred a half thousand or whatever in liquid)and you will have more control moving foward.Good job so far.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Meh, living on your own doesn't guarantee you'll become a great cook. That's an upbringing/cultural thing. Carrying a rent or mortgage will invariably eat at your savings. If you really want to test things out just rent a modest place as long as you can and see how that goes - http://www.padmapper.com/. I wouldn't be house shopping unless you're ready to settle down and plant your roots.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I agree that the world has changed. When I was in school, you couldn't get a job. I had a class where they brought in industry people, their spiel was " we're not hiring, we have no plans to hire, and I may be fired next week".

Somehow, my generation managed to survive, find jobs, and drive the housing market up...each generation will have their own challenges to face. Some of these challenges forced me to learn about investing...

I hope my kids learn enough from me about passive income that they never have to work.

As for being a good cook ddkay, I never said good cook, I said learn to cook. I agree there is a difference, but everyone should learn to cook, it's a dying art...one I think we'll regret losing. Besides, if you become a good cook, women will be more attracted to you. P-)


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Just a guy-You honestly think your generation had it harder than then anyone born after say 1980-85?I disagree.Maybe your specific circumstances but as a whole babybs had it best-better than there parents and likely better than there children imo.satistically.Maybe may vision is cloudy because most of NA is dealing with the great recession right now.There is so many more challenges Now-too many to list-objectively.(morally also)I would bet historians would give your birth group the best odds looking back.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Sherlock said:


> Are you guys telling him to move out and/or contribute to his mom because you honestly think it's best for him, or because you're jealous that he gets to live for free and save all his money? I think he has a really good thing going, he has an opportunity to save money that he'll likely never have again. *From a purely financial point of view, he should stay put and continue socking away that money.* And as for his mom, he's only taking advantage of her if she's poor and struggling to support him, if she's comfortable financially then I wouldn't call it taking advantage of her. At least he's saving his money, many people whose parents let them live rent-free spend all their money on financing a new BMW M3 or something. I would stay put for a few more years.


I thought the advice given by Just A Guy was excellent. I didn't take it as jealousy. It's just about a broader perspective.

From a short-term, purely financial point of view, you're right. But I'd argue in the long-term, it would be better to move out now and gain as much life experience as possible. The OP currently doesn't even include food in their current budget, but they're considering taking on several hundred thousand dollars of debt after cashing in pretty much everything they have?

I do think a lot of the discussion has been about how the OP needs to change and spread their wings and whatnot. But I do also think the OP has a lot to be proud of, for saving up an incredible amount of cash at such a young age and with great savings habits. That's not just from living with mom. It shows great savings habits and the OP definitely deserves a lot of credit.

But I don't think they're ready to take on a house right at this time. It'd be like marrying a girl after your 5th date. I'm not saying it can't work, just that it might be better to wait and learn more and work through some bumps and bruises along the way before making such a major commitment.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Donald,

If you reread my post, you'll see that I never said I had it worse, I said each generation has it's challenges. The same could apply to each province, city or family.

I've got friends who've come from nightmare backgrounds and turned out fine.

Life has nothing to do with you situation, it has to do with how you deal with your circumstances.

Hiding at home, or in school are legitimate ways of dealing with it...


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Some interesting thoughts

I don't feel like renting a house would help me
I know what area I want to reside, and I know where I want to work
I can cook, I can do laundry, I can do those things very easily
and I have a mindset of how much things are going to cost me when I do move out

I said I could get a 320k house, never said I could comfortably afford that, which is why I'm looking more for a 260k house (and likely ending up paying a touch over asking, because every house has a bidding war)

and im not italian, if i had a larger family, i would feel like i were though!

Mom doesn't need any help, she's retired on her pension, and spends all her money spoiling my brothers(age 39) children
He stayed at home until he was 28, bought a house, and everything is great
I have the same job as him, and want to live near him...
Mom is also a very picky eater, she'd never let me cook for her, the only way I can help out, is doing some yard work, which is planned for this summer
I've also lent my mother 10k a couple years ago to finishing paying off the house, bought her a fancy TV a couple of years ago, and a computer. she's paid me back 5k of the 10, but i think she's going to keep the other 5k  she talks about charging me 200 a month, that my 5k would be gone in 2 years, lol... but she's happy, and she likes going on random 2 day trips on no notice 

Maybe I went to the extreme of explaining my situation with mom, but I'm fully aware that I'm milking my mother, but she's happy having me, and I've talked to her about it lots, and she suggests I stay at home as long as I can... she's not kicking me out, ever... but one day I do need to make that step
She actually thinks when I leave, she might stay a couple more years, sell the house and move into an apartment or old folks home (she's 65, she had me at age 41)


Anyways
Once I was committed with a house, I could be the one renting if some kind of plans changed, which they won't
I could always make up extra cash with a roommate... none of my friends have a dollar to their name, they go out get drunk every weekend, still in school, etc... dummies!
I could easily rent my house out for at least 800 a month to a friend... or even 1300+ to a random on the net


Following my brother
my brother is a legend though, he met his girlfriend while still living at home, and they bought a house together in the nicest area of our city 10 years ago, and his house nearly tripled in value, happily married, etc..
he is my role model, and who i want to be, i have his same career, same everything, at a younger age, just not the girl or house... yet 


What interests me the most is financials, how to wisely spend my money

I think having a 100k downpayment (say 35%) would be better than a 60k downpayment (20%) [290k home] So Maybe staying another year at home isn't the worst.. my brother waited long!
I've also heard people doing 1 year mortgage terms, get the lowest rates, and each year, just keep fighting for the lowest rate (at the time)
I heard pay 20% down, then just add extra money on your 1 year anniversity

Should I do 30 year mortgage? 25 year mortgage? 20 year?

Ultimately I want to buy a nice 3 bedroom, house in the area I like, and stay there forever!!! A girl may change those plans, but I will always have that house, and someone to rent it, or sell it 10 years later...
I've been browsing for almost a year, only 1 house has come up on the market that I really liked, listed for 259,990... I offered no conditions at 268,100 with a cheque of 20k... their real estate guy called mine, and said they liked my offer, with the no conditions, but "280k and the house is yours" I was unwilling to go that high just yet, so I said, no my deal is good, obviously they are calling because its good with no conditions, I'll go to 270k, but not 280... someone else got the house after their financing condition cleared, there offer was 278k (the other real estate tried to get 2k extra from me, and my 0 conditions)
so for 8 months, i've walked through over 60 houses, only 1 i really liked that i could afford, and i passed



Anyways money is just sitting in a 1.35% interest savings account

having all that money in bank gives me urges to spend it, which would be really dumb!!
this year, i bought a new bike for 2500, sold my old one for 1200... although extremely happy with that choice
but im thinking of maybe a new car even though i have a nice 2008 g6 with no problems but i want a car to fit my bike! and maybe something a touch lighter on gas


im also thinking of stocks, i want my money to work harder for me


I do like caricole's post... if you propose «TO MY MOTHERS PLACE» she most probably will RUN FOR COVER...
haha

and i know my thoughts are extremely scattered, how about some discussion on "mortgage" and "money" bigger downpayment? 1 year anni contributions? shorter term? save more?

Let say I can afford 1200 a month for mortgage, having a blanket of emerg funds...

do i pay 800 a month at 30 years, save that extra 4800 cash, and put that towards my 1 year anniversity?

how do i pay the least on interest for the mortgage? buy it off the soonest?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I agree 110%.....I just wince when i hear bbs whine(and they wine about everything) that is all.-a lot of them are shell shocked they have to work till 70 now-(they were the me me me generations imo-credit card addictions,divorce ect ect-now gen x and mills are going to foot the bill for there ss,medicare ect and were going to have to take care of them:xers and mills.I honestly feel that way.It's a reversal.The young take care of the old.(They got taking care of at both sides-there parents and now there children)They ran ricksaw through the world.There is some truth to that(not specific people but as a demo)historians will confirm this imo.Im tired of listening and reading about the "poor"bbs-lol-every article i read in the paper or media is about the poor bomers.Suck it up....xers and mils do and have.I'm not against bomers they just seem like the biggest complianers.You know the one that dont have a rrsp by 50 and there realizing nobody is going to take care of them for the first time in there life-the great recession smoked them out(hiding in debt).I think the youth today are smarter,tougher,more creative and will fair way better(handle adversity ect)-i might be ignorant and in the wrong but it seems like that.objective-not flaming...maybe i have'nt have enough coffee yet and im thinking out loud lol


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Donald, how old do you think I am?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't think your a bb-i's guess your generation x?


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Some interesting thoughts

I don't feel like renting a house would help me
I know what area I want to reside, and I know where I want to work
I can cook, I can do laundry, I can do those things very easily
and I have a mindset of how much things are going to cost me when I do move out

I said I could get a 320k house, never said I could comfortably afford that, which is why I'm looking more for a 260k house (and likely ending up paying a touch over asking, because every house has a bidding war)

and im not italian, if i had a larger family, i would feel like i were though!

Mom doesn't need any help, she's retired on her pension, and spends all her money spoiling my brothers(age 39) children
He stayed at home until he was 28, bought a house, and everything is great
I have the same job as him, and want to live near him...
Mom is also a very picky eater, she'd never let me cook for her, the only way I can help out, is doing some yard work, which is planned for this summer
I've also lent my mother 10k a couple years ago to finishing paying off the house, bought her a fancy TV a couple of years ago, and a computer. she's paid me back 5k of the 10, but i think she's going to keep the other 5k  she talks about charging me 200 a month, that my 5k would be gone in 2 years, lol... but she's happy, and she likes going on random 2 day trips on no notice 

Maybe I went to the extreme of explaining my situation with mom, but I'm fully aware that I'm milking my mother, but she's happy having me, and I've talked to her about it lots, and she suggests I stay at home as long as I can... she's not kicking me out, ever... but one day I do need to make that step
She actually thinks when I leave, she might stay a couple more years, sell the house and move into an apartment or old folks home (she's 65, she had me at age 41)


Anyways
Once I was committed with a house, I could be the one renting if some kind of plans changed, which they won't
I could always make up extra cash with a roommate... none of my friends have a dollar to their name, they go out get drunk every weekend, still in school, etc... dummies!
I could easily rent my house out for at least 800 a month to a friend... or even 1300+ to a random on the net


Following my brother
my brother is a legend though, he met his girlfriend while still living at home, and they bought a house together in the nicest area of our city 10 years ago, and his house nearly tripled in value, happily married, etc..
he is my role model, and who i want to be, i have his same career, same everything, at a younger age, just not the girl or house... yet 


What interests me the most is financials, how to wisely spend my money

I think having a 100k downpayment (say 35%) would be better than a 60k downpayment (20%) [290k home] So Maybe staying another year at home isn't the worst.. my brother waited long!
I've also heard people doing 1 year mortgage terms, get the lowest rates, and each year, just keep fighting for the lowest rate (at the time)
I heard pay 20% down, then just add extra money on your 1 year anniversity

Should I do 30 year mortgage? 25 year mortgage? 20 year?

Ultimately I want to buy a nice 3 bedroom, house in the area I like, and stay there forever!!! A girl may change those plans, but I will always have that house, and someone to rent it, or sell it 10 years later...
I've been browsing for almost a year, only 1 house has come up on the market that I really liked, listed for 259,990... I offered no conditions at 268,100 with a cheque of 20k... their real estate guy called mine, and said they liked my offer, with the no conditions, but "280k and the house is yours" I was unwilling to go that high just yet, so I said, no my deal is good, obviously they are calling because its good with no conditions, I'll go to 270k, but not 280... someone else got the house after their financing condition cleared, there offer was 278k (the other real estate tried to get 2k extra from me, and my 0 conditions)
so for 8 months, i've walked through over 60 houses, only 1 i really liked that i could afford, and i passed



Anyways dont worry about my living habbits, or that im just a lost kid, ill figure things out....

i just need to learn more about money
my money is just sitting in a 1.35% interest savings account

having all that money in bank gives me urges to spend it, which would be really dumb!!
this year, i bought a new bike for 2500, sold my old one for 1200... although extremely happy with that choice
but im thinking of maybe a new car even though i have a nice 2008 g6 with no problems but i want a car to fit my bike! and maybe something a touch lighter on gas


im also thinking of stocks, i want my money to work harder for me


I do like caricole's post... if you propose «TO MY MOTHERS PLACE» she most probably will RUN FOR COVER...
haha

and i know my thoughts are extremely scattered, how about some discussion on "mortgage" and "money" bigger downpayment? 1 year anni contributions? shorter term? save more?

Let say I can afford 1200 a month for mortgage, having a blanket of emerg funds...

do i pay 800 a month at 30 years, save that extra 4800 cash, and put that towards my 1 year anniversity?

how do i pay the least on interest for the mortgage? buy it off the soonest?


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

On the money side, a bigger down payment is always better. 

Few questions:

What industry are you in? Is your company stable? Is your pension likely to be around and fully funded in 30+ years when you expect to be able to retire?

If you can buy a house now, and never move you'll save a lot of money in moving expenses, realtor fees etc.
On the other hand, if you stay at home, you'll probably save even more money until you eventually decide to leave.

Unlike some other posters here, I don't see the fact that you are still living at home as that negative. If it helps you get ahead the way it helped your brother, I'm sure your mom is happy to have you there. In many European cultures, kids stay at home into their 30s, often a result of extremely expensive housing markets that make the GTA/Vancouver look cheap. If it makes financial sense, why wouldn't you?

Like any big decision, take everything into account before doing anything. 

I'd equate your situation to my decision not to buy a car. I save ~$15,000/year, but give up some major conveniences. Totally worth it in my books, because the inconvenience is relatively minor in relation to the huge savings.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, I still stand by my original advice. That being said, to answer your questions, higher down payment, shorter amortization. Although, if you ask for a longer amortization and the set your payments as if it was shorter (get 30 years, pay like it was the shortest you could afford say 15-20), it may give you some options if something goes wrong in the future, or if you turn it into a rental and need lower payments.

As a rental, it won't cash flow, so you'll be paying out of pocket if you go that route.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Dmoney said:


> What industry are you in? Is your company stable? Is your pension likely to be around and fully funded in 30+ years when you expect to be able to retire?



I work as a letter carrier for Canada Post, stable, despite what anyone says, they just spent 2 billion dollars on machines that ONLY SORT LETTERMAIL, its fair to say they aren't going anywhere, since they are updating their whole company nation wide, buying each letter carrier a car, and forcing him to do parcels(where the money is)
Where they lose money in letters, they make up for in flyers, some days we have 8 sets of flyers, canada post collects 13 cents each, and the carrier gets paid 2 cents, so they profit 11 cents, and each carrier has say 600 houses

Pension could be questionable right now its indexed, but we are still under 3rd party negociations as we got legistated back to work because the company locked us out, 
I have no fear that the company will still be around for at least 20 years, as its the 3rd lowest stamp in the world, and places that are public have 17 different companies delievering mail, and it's total chaos and no good!
Canada Post has also made a huge profit for the past 16 years (but that streak ended this year due to the strike[fear of mailing] and all the new machines and such)
The CEO of Canada post last year made just over 300k wages, but got a bonus worth more than his wages, putting him ahead of Stephen Harper

I'll give you some history as someone is probably going to knock at it
Winnipeg is the first city to be "modernized" with that, we got 700 cars and a few new buildings

We used to have 125 truck drivers (parcels and pickups)
Now we have 15
We used to have 800 letter carriers, now 700
And inside the plant, 400 workers, now 300
They didnt lay anyone off, just simply didn't hire new people as older people were retiring
So for anyone who says our job is easy, you can see it just got harder, as letter carriers now have longer routes, have to deliever parcels, pick up stuff, etc...

They make half the letter carriers start at 7am sort mail
then the other half comes in at 10am, sorts mail, SHARING a case (real estate is expensive.. less room needed) and now those guys have to clear the red boxes which have 5pm clearance times

like any company, they do what the can to make the most profit


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Dmoney said:


> On the money side, a bigger down payment is always better.
> 
> Few questions:
> 
> ...


I had the same financial income as you at your age without the savings part. So I am guessing you get two checks per month in tunes of $1500 here's how much things costed back then for me on a Condo that costed $200 000:
Mortgage $900/month
All insurances $100/month
Condo fees: ~$300/month
Notary: $1400 buy and sell
Mtg breakup fee: $700
RE agent: ~8% (5% buy and 5% sell)
Appliances and furniture for the first 6 months cost $1200 per month
Food and groceries frugal: $200/month, non frugal: $400/month
Repairs allocation: $100/month
Taxes: ~$2000/year

What's important is this conclusion. After 30% rise in the RE value, I got away with no gain and no loss. Compared with my other investment ROI, this is one of the worst ones. Compared to my previous living arrangement which costs only $400 per month, why the heck did I do this? For science of course.
Now you have the full weight of CMF knowledge at your disposal telling you that owning is a **** deal. Your bro made out like prince charming raping sleeping beauty because he happens to be in the work place at the recovery phase of the economy (I am guessing 2003 ish?) and caught the upswing. You... may not be so fortunate. 

You ARE NOT your brother and the sooner you realize this the better it will be for you.

Next I would like to tackle the situation about living with parents. If your mom is in retirement, I have to agree with you somewhat that living together serves a good purpose. When we are young, we seek independence, but as we get older, what we seek is more interdependence. I come from a very traditional family culture so there's only pressure to stay with your parents and never pressure to move out. I did, fully embrace the western culture and tested my wings at 18 and boy, what a ride it was.

It was the reason why I had no savings when I was at your age. But it was also the greatest baptism by fire because I was forced to live/deal with people of very different values and hence arrived at my own values. If I had never moved out, I'd just be a more refined version of the family values, never knowing what could be wrong with it. This is why most people suggest you move out. 

I suggest you rent a room close to your mom, about a 5 minute drive away, with roommates... if this whole exercise is about testing your wings. The scrooge in you will ask why throw good money away, but the devil in me will tell you that it is never throwing money away if the experience earned outweighs money. This is why, people are telling you to rent. A lot of us has been there, or have siblings that are the opposite of us and we know what is needed for you. But it will not sound right to you because you have never experienced it. I am guessing most of us won't bother trying to explain this because we know that it will be hard to swallow. If you want to change, you'll look for it. Looking at buying a house is a subconscious acknowledgement that it is necessary. What is different from your message and ours is this:
You are saying: "I am going to change... a little while putting a lot of money on the line"
We are telling you to: "Change MORE and put less money on the line"


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

My best friends brother and my brother lived at home. They never left because it was so convenient and cheap. That is why Just a Guy resonated so much wiuth his advice. Of course, your situation is different. Just make sure you are buying a place that will last you at least 5 years and preferrably 10. The costs of moving house are very high. Good luck!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> First off, move out as soon as you can.
> 
> You've, so far, led a very sheltered life. Nothing wrong with that, but the world is a lot harder than you think. There is a reason birds push their young out of the nest, it's not because they are mean, it's about survival. Birds who don't get the push are more likely to get eaten in the future.


I'm probably one of the only one's to disagree with Just a Guy.

Telling the guy to leave home ASAP is probably the worst (financial) advice you could give. Social/Learning/Growth/Actualization advice is not Financial Advice. And this is a financial forum.

Yes, the world is hard. Yes he should be contributing, maybe paying $300 in rent and doing his own laundry and making his own food.

However, it's a big financial mistake to leave home.

I am 21 and will be living on my own in January (definitely not by choice) and I can't tell you how stressed out it's making me feel. I understand how hard life can be, and that's exactly why I don't want to leave. Once I leave, I am screwed. You are a few years older than me (and make $20,000 more than me), so you've had some more time to "save", so in your case it is not so bad. However, I think everyone should stay at home until 25 (which would be one more year for you) in order to save up more capital.

It's a lot better to stay at home and not be naive (ie, realize that there is a world out there that can eat you) so that you can safely save money in a sheltered environment before the wolves come out for a feast.

However, you know what they say...

The one's who can make it in this world get the shitty part of the stick for that reason. Everyone else needs a hand holding. They know you can handle it, so they dump it on you. 

My advice? Stay at home, and for flock sakes, you are only 24. Stay away from the lady friends, too.

Why does everyone feel the need to grow up so fast?

Nothing like increasing liability/responsibility early...

I don't understand.... :confused2:


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> Are you guys telling him to move out and/or contribute to his mom because you honestly think it's best for him, or because you're jealous that he gets to live for free and save all his money? I think he has a really good thing going, he has an opportunity to save money that he'll likely never have again. From a purely financial point of view, he should stay put and continue socking away that money. And as for his mom, he's only taking advantage of her if she's poor and struggling to support him, if she's comfortable financially then I wouldn't call it taking advantage of her. At least he's saving his money, many people whose parents let them live rent-free spend all their money on financing a new BMW M3 or something. I would stay put for a few more years.


This is the post the original poster should be looking at.

I feel like my mother is kicking me out because she knows I have great financial and money management skills. Sometimes it sort of makes me angry. I feel like if I wasn't as diligent with money, I would have got a better hand holding. I never even played sports or did anything costly as a kid - I was simple. It's not like I ate up her extra cash by playing football and needing new clothes. I don't even ask for birthday or Christmas presents. Hell... I still wear clothes that I wore in 9th grade with holes in them. What do I care? Clothes don't make a person. The person makes the person.

What's upsetting is the fact that I strive to save so much and will even refrain from going out with friends in order to save, and will now be kicked out. It's hurtful, stressful, and very disappointing. And as a result, I am staying in _even more_ because I am stressed about the costs of living.

As I said, Shea, my advice to you is to stay at home as long as possible. I get the fact that bringing girls back to your mother's place isn't exactly fun (and yes, some of then _will_ run, that's a fact of life) but hey, they won't always run. Especially if they live at home, themselves. Some girls (yes, as someone said before, girls, not ladies) will run because they only want to use up everything you've got. You don't want one of those chicks, anyway. Those are the one's you take to a hotel and then say "See ya later".

Stay at home. You'll thank Sherlock and I in 10 years.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Reading through this thread really brought back how tough life can be starting out. I admit, I was quite bummed when I turned 40 recently. But thinking about it, I don't think I'd trade where I am today (rapidly appearing grey hairs notwithstanding) at 40 to where I was in my early 20's. I also got the boot from my parents house at 21 - looking back, it was probably the best thing for me. I think I may have had 3k net worth at 21 - the first year out from the "nest" was a tough one - living from paycheque to paycheque builds character I guess? I'm not really sure how the hell I got to where I am now. Worry not, you younguns' have time on your side...


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

KaeJS said:


> I'm probably one of the only one's to disagree with Just a Guy.
> 
> Telling the guy to leave home ASAP is probably the worst (financial) advice you could give. Social/Learning/Growth/Actualization advice is not Financial Advice. And this is a financial forum.


Ahh, but then you haven't lived on your own. Financially it may be the best thing for him. When my company was having trouble is when I turned to investing and made my money. The guy who runs my favourite blog had a debilitating car accident, was self employed and couldn't work for several years...he started investing in real estate to save his family.

I don't know about him, but I certainly wouldn't be where I am financially had I not run into problems. Being self employed, you don't get EI, benefits, or any type of safety net. I don't have wealthy parents to bail me out, it was sink or swim.

Had my business continued to be moderately successful, I'd probably be doing okay today...but because it did, and I had to deal with it, I now have financial freedom to make choices. 

So yes, I think it's also good financial advice.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> So yes, I think it's also good financial advice.


Understand what you're saying, but I still respectfully disagree.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm a young guy who will side with the old guys in this thread. Been living on my own since 19, only way to go. Rent don't own. Stay liquid, stay mobile.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

He should NEVER move out. Then he can save the MOST money. Clearly this is the BEST financial advice. Because saving money by reducing expenses is the ONLY path to financial success. :02.47-tranquillity:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> He should NEVER move out. Then he can save the MOST money. Clearly this is the BEST financial advice. Because saving money by reducing expenses is the ONLY path to financial success. :02.47-tranquillity:



MG as HC likes to joke, whatever have you done with Belguy.

the only advice to add is he should invest in a large BED that's HIGH enough to be comfortable underneath.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I feel like my mother is kicking me out because she knows I have great financial and money management skills. Sometimes it sort of makes me angry. I feel like if I wasn't as diligent with money, I would have got a better hand holding. I never even played sports or did anything costly as a kid - I was simple. It's not like I ate up her extra cash by playing football and needing new clothes. I don't even ask for birthday or Christmas presents. Hell... I still wear clothes that I wore in 9th grade with holes in them. What do I care? Clothes don't make a person. The person makes the person.
> 
> What's upsetting is the fact that I strive to save so much and will even refrain from going out with friends in order to save, and will now be kicked out. It's hurtful, stressful, and very disappointing. And as a result, I am staying in _even more_ because I am stressed about the costs of living.


With all due respect Kae, you sound like a bit of a baby in this post. How about having some gratitude for your mom for raising you (clearly very well) these last 21 years?

Has it occurred to you that she might be doing you a favour by giving you the boot? As MoneyGal notes, the best financial move would be to live at home forever. Maybe your mom is worried you might do just that and wants to help you along (and out).

We often talk here about balance when saving for retirement, being frugal etc. For young people that balance might involve being on their own, even if it isn't the optimum financial strategy.

Be happy that you had a good family and home to live in for the last 21 years and start thinking about the next chapter of your life.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

And I'll respectfully disagree with you FP.

18+ = adult age, we know that, but there is no need to kick one's adult child out, except under certain circumstances. Just because a parent's legal obligation ends at 18 [and I disagree with this too btw] and just because a child [teenager or adult] turns a certain age, it does not mean it's no longer his/her home. I would personally never kick my son out of HIS home, but I know it's a cultural thing to do so here once they reach a certain age. 

Another thing is that many students pay for their own college/university education and I see nothing wrong with that, but I also see nothing wrong with parents helping/paying for their children's education, if they are in a position to pay or lend them the money; in fact, it's the parents' obligation to help with their children's education. Receiving family support after 18 is perfectly normal IMHO. 

Leeching off one's parents/not contributing in any way while old enough & working full-time/not behaving financially responsible, etc., etc., is another matter altogether.

Tough love has its place, I'm not saying it doesn't, but some here really make it sound as though it's so wrong to live at home after the age of 18, 20+ and that that is the only way to become independent. :rolleyes2:


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Look. If it works for mom and for child, who's to say they should do anything differently? But when mom is saying, "time's up," then isn't it time to go? The recent discussion in this thread is not about the abstract best age to leave home. It's about a mom saying, "it is time for you to move on and develop yourself as an adult" and her child saying he wants hand-holding, so that he doesn't have to face the stress of living on his own.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> And I'll respectfully disagree with you FP.


I don't disagree with you. There is nothing wrong with staying at home after high school/college or whatever if the situation works out for all parties. All I'm saying with Kae is that his mom wants him out and he needs to move on with things.


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## Sustainable PF (Nov 5, 2010)

@OP - If Mom wants you to stay, would you consider purchasing a rental property? Then start saving for a down payment on a house all over again?

I would also look at some better savings accounts for your cash - PC is not the best. I would think Ally or People's Choice would be better. Sure you may not be able to access your cash immediately (@ People's for sure, not sure about Ally) but if you can see a 2%, 2.5% or 3% interest rate for parked cash you are much better off than the low rates @ PC.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

With my kids, I expect them to move out and live on their own. That doesn't mean I won't be there to help them if they need it in the future. I expect my kids to stumble when they start out. Like riding a bicycle. My son picked it up very quickly and didn't need much help, my daughter took over a year. I was there to pick them up when they fell and help them both through the process however long it took.

If they didn't move out until later, when I was dead or incapacitated somehow, I certainly wouldn't be able to help them through the process. Being a parent doesn't end when they come of age or move out, it's a lifetime job...with benefits.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

This has been amusing to follow and I disagree with several points being made. I moved out last year at 21 years of age for a job opportunity in a different location. Had the opportunity allowed me to stay at home I would have, and I would be saving more money every month than I do now (as I do like money in my pocket). Moving out hasn't been any different for me, except more cash outflow and having the fun (and expense) of decorating. 

Moving out is only a self-learning process IF you don't know yourself, are not grounded, etc. If you are a self-sufficient, capable, and fully functioning individual then really it won't be any different. At least, that's my perspective and has been my experience. No situation should have one single answer such as: you should move out to grow up. For some this may be valid advice, and others not so much.

My recommendation for the OP is compare/contrast the financial differences against the emotional aspects and see which wins out. He has some great models to look at for advice such as the many CMF posters and his family members. 

And for KaeJ, perhaps your mom wants her independance and it's not about you. Just a thought although of course I don't know the situation at all.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

finally some advice i like to hear!

so basically what i gather is,

financially it's best to stay at home for as long as you are able.
that way you get a bigger downpayment, and have less expenses when you do leave.

try to get your dream house right off the bat, because the more you move, the more fees.


i do like the suggestion of buying a house to rent it out
however, i feel it will be hard going to the bank asking for a second mortgage
knowing myself, i'd probably just dump every dollar into that mortgage fee (i hate any interest I have to pay, even if its 2.99% for 4 years)
so lets say i get 1200 rent
i get 2500 from work
3700 total/month
over 5 years until that sucker was paid off (plus possible delays and other fees)
i dont think i can stay here for 5 years!

Also, i don't think you can use home buyers, if you don't live in your house, so RRSPs wouldnt be eligible for downpayment


I would love to move my money to another account to earn higher than 1.35% but PC is just sssoooooo easy  its money i can see, i know its there, i know i can access it
Ally is only 1.80 which would only get me an extra 100$ per 20k per year
(20k in 1.35 regular savings)
(20k in TFSA 1.5) <--- once i take this out, i can't put back in


at the same time, its best to leave ASAP to develop "life skills" (which i don't believe i need)
i just desire a different lifestyle, but in theory the more i wait, the easier financially it will be... don't get in a rush to find the wrong girl 




I think I'll just wait until a house I really really really like comes up on the market, (in the 8 months of looking i've only seen one, that i lost out on by 6k), so whether that be tomorrow, or 1 year from now, that will be the time to move out
the house i can see myself living in, 20 years from now, obviously needs 3 bedroom, 2 bath (hoping ill have kids) and a nice rec room in the basement... a bungalo for less maintance
1 year would be best i think, but the rates are expected to go up in fall... how much would a .25 increase affect a 200k mortgage? next summer could be .5
can't lock in a rate for 1 year 


i could also get a room-mate for 500+rent/month if i needed



any faults in my views?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> I expect my kids to stumble when they start out.


No, your kids _shouldn't_ stumble when they start out on their own. They should be smart enough, mature enough and developed enough to know what to do and what not to do, to ensure they _do not_ stumble. What can you possibly screw up by moving out?



Young&Ambitious said:


> This has been amusing to follow and I disagree with several points being made. I moved out last year at 21 years of age for a job opportunity in a different location. Had the opportunity allowed me to stay at home I would have, and I would be saving more money every month than I do now (as I do like money in my pocket). Moving out hasn't been any different for me, except more cash outflow and having the fun (and expense) of decorating.
> 
> Moving out is only a self-learning process IF you don't know yourself, are not grounded, etc. If you are a self-sufficient, capable, and fully functioning individual then really it won't be any different. At least, that's my perspective and has been my experience. No situation should have one single answer such as: you should move out to grow up. For some this may be valid advice, and others not so much.
> 
> And for KaeJ, perhaps your mom wants her independance and it's not about you. Just a thought although of course I don't know the situation at all.


I loved your post, *Young&Ambitious*. You hit the nail on the head, I think.

As for my mother's independence - sure. You could say that. But she has a husband, dog, and a 12 year old. What kind of independence is she going to get?

90% of the time, I'm not even at home unless I need to sleep. And even then, sometimes I don't show up for a few days lol.

*Money Gal*, as for hand holding - that's not what I'm asking for. I realize utilities, food, rent, etc all costs money. But listen, my mom isn't going to cut her cable bill because I move out. I have no problem helping out with the finances and doing my own "chores". That's not my concern.

My concern is that 2 can live cheaper than 1, and 3 live cheaper than 2, etc. etc. Smart people know this. So how does it even make sense to give me the boot? As I said upthread, I have a brother and a dog that's not mine. It's not like my mother is going to get peace, solace, serenity and silence when I am gone.

I am not asking for hand-holding, but I look at it as more of a symbiotic relationship that has no need to be destroyed (at this point in time).

*Shea*, stop thinking about NOW and start thinking about THEN.

Don't leave home. It makes no sense, buddy.

Plus, you can always move out, but you can't always move back in. You know?

Take some time. Stay at home a while more. There's no rush. You will kick yourself when the bills start rolling in.

Besides -- looking at your posts, you will have the domino effect. You will get your own place (expenses) which will lead to a dog (expenses) which will also lead to furniture (expenses) etc. etc. etc.

It's not just the house and the moving out. It's everything that comes along with it. You are young. Stay young as long as possible.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> I feel like my mother is kicking me out because she knows I have great financial and money management skills. Sometimes it sort of makes me angry. *I feel like if I wasn't as diligent with money, I would have got a better hand holding*...It's hurtful, stressful, and very disappointing.


Hmmm. I was just responding to what you said, using your words. 

I'm probably your mom's age, BTW. each:

As for symbiosis - I'd suggest yours is a form of inquilinism (a subset of commensalism, which is a form of symbiosis. Undergrad biological sciences degree for the win, here).


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

I'd say stay with what your doing.... keep looking for the right place, and do some work or chip in for food/expenses around the place with your mom for the time being. I lived at home until I was 24....I wanted to move a year earlier just when I got a full time job outside of finishing school. My folks talked me into staying around for another year...mainly due to my dad being on the road most of the time and I looked after the day to day chores around the place. I eventually moved out when I got a job that paid substantially more than what I was making before (had to move for the job) I was in a new area then so rented for a year and then bought a place like you plan on ..3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms ..enough so if i meet somesome I'm in no hurry to move.. I've been in my house for 8 years now and spent 20-30K in expenses/renos....new roof this year and just had a plumber today..ensure you have enough money aside for these expenses which always seem to creep up on you when you own a house....I've also rented space out in my house but mostly to close friends for more of a help out than to make money (only charged 300/month).....After I moved out and had some money I sent my parents on an Alaskan cruise it was something I knew they both wanted to do, it was their anniversary and I wanted to show them my appreciation for all that they had helped me with over the years.

Kae....If I had dropped out of college and had a full time job my folks would have told me to get out as well...I have four older brothers and they were all out of the house after high school once they obtained jobs (I was the only one who went to college)..My one brother was allowed back for a few months when he moved back from Alberta...their reasoning was if your not showing enough initiative while living at home maybe a dose of the real world will wake you up.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> Hmmm. I was just responding to what you said, using your words.
> 
> As for symbiosis - I'd suggest yours is a form of inquilinism (a subset of commensalism, which is a form of symbiosis. Undergrad biological sciences degree for the win, here).


Understood. But I said I feel that I would have received a better hand holding, as in.... naturally (not asked for). Not that I _want_ a hand holding. I don't think paying my share and doing my own chores is hand holding. I think it's just doing me a favour and helping me get ahead.



DanFo said:


> if your not showing enough initiative while living at home maybe a dose of the real world will wake you up.


Yeah, but what about those kids (adults) who are showing initiative?

I know a guy who has to pay for his schooling and work full time, while his loser brother had a baby and lives at home with no job living off of his parents and government credits.

Now, who's getting shafted? The good kid is getting shafted. That's the way it goes a lot of the time...


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I have a friend who wants to sell her house and buy a one bedroom condo so her 23 year old will move out.Her # rule is when she goes to bed and locks the door he needs to be home if he wants to sleep in his bed ,last weekend she waited up til 1:30 for him and locked him out.He slept in the car in drive way until she got up at 7am lol.There comes a time when doing your share around the house and paying rent is not enough .


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I can tell from my experience subletting that living with other people can be plain annoying and often you get people that are also uncivilized and make all sorts of noise and commotion when you need peace and quiet. It depends on the person. If OP wants his own place, he should get his own place. I just don't agree with buying outright. The rental rates in Winnpeg are very cheap compared to Toronto and he has an above average salary.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

KaeJS: I can certainly appreciate that living at home makes more financial sense, and it really does for young people. But you have to be careful that it isn't taken too far, or else it can be very much a short-term financial decision. Yes, you save more while you do it, but you can make that argument until you're in your 40s (and I know some who have). He'll retire early I'm sure, single, childless, comfortable, but not necessarily happy. This may be a financial forum, but wealth is not just measured in numbers.

Moving out can be a huge personal growth thing. It can also be no big deal as Young&Ambitious pointed out. But I do think you need to spread your wings a bit more on your own. I'm not saying that as a mean-spirited thing nor am I trying to attack you, but I think you do need some more balance in your life and more perspective as well. You save at an incredible rate but you never appreciated it because it only made you think you needed to save more. Your personal net worth is significantly high for someone your age, yet instead of appreciating that, you're focusing on how you're nowhere near where you need to be for retirement. You've been denying yourself simple things in life such as going out with friends, and your comment about staying away from the lady friends is concerning as well.

You have saved up a considerable amount of money, you have good financial habits, and you have basically 8 months notice to move out, and you're majorly stressed over what is a big life shift that you have a ton of time to prepare for. Life usually doesn't give you 8 months notice for big things. 

So while I agree fundamentally that living at home can be a good thing for a while, ultimately it can be a bad thing if you rely on it and never develop other parts of your life. And I do think you, right now, could use a bit more of that. I mean that in the nicest way possible.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

financialnoob said:


> [edit - a lot of great advice]


+1


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I keep thinking of 2 wickedly funny movies(step brothers & the one guy in wedding crashers)lol.I don't see what's the big deal,it's not like you can't reach milestones or develop character/personal growth because you don't move out until your mid twenties(i moved out when i was 27,old geezer i know when i did it)I saved a crap load and my first house was a new build(i skipped the small crappy apartment expierence that most of society expects one to go through)....thou im in a rental right now that aint half as nice as was my first home.When i lived @ home i barley spent time there and my parents did''nt mind @ all,and i had girls over(in the basement,@ that time)and it was never a issue(mid twenties)Living @ home till your mid twenties is Normal imo.....besides 30 is the new 20 lol.I think forcing one's self out of the house @ 18 is a old idea...I see the ops situation as Normal.He is ahead of the pack.


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## MikeT (Feb 16, 2010)

You should buy the maximum house you can afford with as much mortgage as possible. Remember, this is Canada. And in Canada real-estate ONLY goes up in value. So you want to be rich like me? You want to have girls like me? You want to have jets and cars and boats like me? Then get the most real estate you can. Don't worry, the bank will give you money. And then just hold it and you will become rich like me in a short amount of time!!

Tom Vu.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

There's two kinds of work in America: hard work and smart work! Which one are you doing now?


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I am a mom with a 19 year old daughter ,She has been away since Sept going to school except weekends.My husband and I almost went nuts just having her on reading week.We rather pay her rent than have her living her while she is a student so if an adult child is asked to leave home , don't make more of it than it is.I love my daughter will always be here for her but just the music ,the tv shows and her habit to bake at night drives us bonkers.She cleans up her room ,helps with her younger sister but sometimes too much hormones under one roof lol


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Haha... there are worse things than baking that she could be doing at night, Marina! But, it is understandable.

I really like financialnoob's post. That was very well written. It's good to stay at home to save up some money, and I'm still in that stage, but at some point you need to grow up and make it on your own. Barring any extreme circumstances, or unless I've just returned from travelling, I won't be at home when I turn 25.

KaeJS, I agree, it does suck when you hear about these loser mooches who do nothing and live with their parents. It's like the guys who choose to only work for the summer season, then go on EI for the winter when there is a lot of work available year round - they are just taking advantage of what is available. Though the guy with the baby - you may have more info on his situation, but we can't be quick to judge, you didn't say what the mother is up to, if he has the skillset to get a decent paying job, etc.

At least you can take solace in the fact that it is because you are responsible and good with finances that you are being pushed out. It's like a twisted form of flattery.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> It's like a twisted form of flattery.


Flattery doesn't matter to me. Money does. :wink:

*financialnoob*, I didn't once think your post was an attack. I enjoyed your post. Thank you for your comments.


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## Saslix (Apr 26, 2012)

Just a Guy said:


> pet would be good (as it will teach you how much work it is to take care of someone else)


Teach you how to take care of someone? I'm sure whoever you end up living with would be glad to know that you learned that from owning a dog...

Aside from the fact that pets are NOT cheap (if you're not being a negligent owner) IMO that is not a reason to get a pet. What are you going to do when you get bored of it or realize you're in over your head? Dump it in a back alley? Eat it?


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Flattery doesn't matter to me. Money does. :wink:
> 
> *financialnoob*, I didn't once think your post was an attack. I enjoyed your post. Thank you for your comments.


Think of moving out as exchanging money for human capital. Though instead of in 8 month you should probably do it now. More rental units come on the market now than in the winter.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Saslix said:


> Teach you how to take care of someone? I'm sure whoever you end up living with would be glad to know that you learned that from owning a dog...
> 
> Aside from the fact that pets are NOT cheap (if you're not being a negligent owner) IMO that is not a reason to get a pet. What are you going to do when you get bored of it or realize you're in over your head? Dump it in a back alley? Eat it?


I think your comment proves my point. I didn't mean you treat others like they were a dog, I meant a relationship is a long term thing, can be costly, and has consequences.

As for KaeJS, first I agree kids shouldn't fail, but I also don't expect them to be perfect right out of the gate, besides people learn more from failure than success.

Second, and don't take this wrong, you need to get over your anxiety and resentment. Life is about living. You're still young, are you saving up so you can "live it up" in the nursing home? I'm not saying be reckless, but you seem to be swinging too far the other way, life is about balance. Enjoy your life a little, otherwise you'll wind up the richest guy in the cemetery. As for others having it better than you, that will always be true, nothing you can do about it, so why be bitter about it?

My daughter suffers from anxiety, so I know how it affects people.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My daughter rented a room from a lady her first year (Sept 2011 -present) that helped her be on her own yet not have the full pressure of being on her own.Now she is ready to have her own place ,with working summers and RESP she can afford a $900 apartment.She has $21,000(after taxes) to pay for school and expenses for entire year so if she can do it I am sure you will be fine .
You need to look minimum 2 months before you need it so keep that in mind.


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