# Answer For It



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

OK many on this forum would like to call others out and why they bought, traded or invested in whatever whether it be stock or real estate so now is your chance to ask or answer for it if you want to.

For me I use the leveraged products like HGU at times to goose up my returns when I feel gold stocks are very oversold. 

My answer to this is I am lazy and have not learned the options and how to use them like Humble Pie does. I am always to busy to learn how to optimize options and really need to look into them.

Why do I like to trade? I am in constant need of action when it comes to my money so I do like to trade and also the more I trade the better I get feel for the market. Of course I have my holds mainly in ETF's that I rarely sell or trade. 


T.Gal I was wondering about RIM over the past couple of years, if you sold out today and calculated all the trading and holding roughly where would you be in the gain or loss column roughly. If you don't want to answer that is fine because it is your business and you can do whatever you want.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I've used HOU to trade short term oil price changes a couple of times.

I've also used split share corporations where I believe the company had been overly hammered and didn't have enough cash to buy a reasonable number of full shares.


I too need to learn about options but I tend to learn and trade in spurts and I'm in a non-learning/non-trading spurt at the moment.

I like to trade when I see an opportunity or bargain.


Cheers


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Cool thread. Okay question to Marina: how do you manage to trade Groupon profitably? I bought once and got burned so I am curious


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Thanks Electic12 I am glad I am not the only one using these products. I have also used HOU in the past.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

i personally do not see a problem in using any vehicle that u are comfortable with and knowing what and how does it track.
i use direxion, i use horizons u name it.
these instruments are NOT a buy and hold vehicle at all.
an example is TVIX.
it tracks the volatility index and NOT the spot price of the vix.
there is a tremendous differential in the contracts on the vix it is trading atm.
that particular one willl eat u alive.
as for stocks like young and ambitious asked up there I think that marina said she went gambling is it not?
that is the problem with stocks like those.
one day u can be trading those and a halt shows up and u have no idea why.
by the time u find out ur money is gone for whatever reason.
anyway.
GLTA


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Thenegotiator I am as comfortable with them knowing the longer term drawbacks as with any stock. At least I know the drawbacks with these funds but you don't know what the problems are with any stock because of all the potential lying and cheating that could go on.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

absolutely dog.
a stock can also drown u horribly.
now ... do not forget that if u buy good solid companies , chances are that they will recover.
those instruments can be very detrimental.
i use them also and i know what i am trading.
just be very careful.

i am using two of them right now and i could cover but i am just holding.

they both are shorting something which i prefer not to mention in public so a trader that never traded before uses them.
it is like anything else.
nothing goes up forever and nothing goes down forever.
it is not rocket science
cheers


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I will ask you to answer for them then.

A trader that never traded before shouldn't use HOU, HGU or any of these funds just like a stunt man says don't try this at home.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

a trader that never traded before should paper trade first.
read how and what the referred etfs do.
it is not a stunt.
it is a matter of learning how to trade those instruments.
I do not get where are u going with that.
sorry.
what is there for me to answer?


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

I am going to ask you a question dog.
would you buy Rim today after being downgraded with a target of 9 bux .
some targets are 6 bux.
some are 11 bux.
all because of BB10?
oh dear
that is a second downgrade after the upgrade/downgrade game that happened last year.
do u know what the short position is on this particular stock or MFC?
just asking


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Young&Ambitious said:


> Cool thread. Okay question to Marina: how do you manage to trade Groupon profitably? I bought once and got burned so I am curious


you are not alone.
have you lost more than 100k?:rolleyes2:

did u ever lose 100k ?


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The investigation focuses on whether the Company and its executives violated federal securities laws by failing to disclose that: (1) a substantial portion of Groupon's revenue growth was being derived from its non-core, lower-margin Groupon Goods business; (2) Groupon's business was not growing to the extent represented by the Company; and (3) Groupon's revenue stream was shifting in a manner which would lead to lower margins.

On November 8, 2012, Groupon issued a press release announcing its third quarter 2012 earnings results, reporting disappointing revenue results for the third quarter and lowered revenue guidance for the fourth quarter of 2012 below market expectations. In a conference call following the release of Groupon's third quarter results, Groupon acknowledged that the Company's lower margin Groupon Goods business would be a more significant part of its revenues. As a result of this news, Groupon stock dropped $1.16 per share to close at $2.76 per share on November 9, 2012, a one-day decline of nearly 30% and a decline of 78% from the stock's Class Period high.

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SOURCE Faruqi & Faruqi, LLP


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

thenegotiator said:


> a trader that never traded before should paper trade first.
> read how and what the referred etfs do.
> it is not a stunt.
> it is a matter of learning how to trade those instruments.
> ...



That made me laugh thenegotiator, the stunt comment is comparing the danger of leveraged ETF's for beginners to trying stunts you see on TV with no experience. 

The only thing I hoping for you to answer is what are you shorting and don't worry about new traders.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

thenegotiator said:


> I am going to ask you a question dog.
> would you buy Rim today after being downgraded with a target of 9 bux .
> some targets are 6 bux.
> some are 11 bux.
> ...


Buy RIM and hold it no chance, but trade it I might. I have traded RIM a few times in the past and posted it here.

I don't know the short positions on MFC or RIM but if they are big enough they could be used as ammunition for a trade as the shorts scramble to cover.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

ha.
ok:biggrin:
nevertheless please make ur own decision ok?
stocks short position FB at loss which i have been covering.
was going to start a short position on Rim today after the large gap was closed today but i will wait for monday when mkt opens.
i am long the USD index also via ETF this one can be painfully slow.
i think that the Euro will retest at least the 1.347 of last year and i hope it does not retest the high of 1.4.
can happen though.

Chinese index and of coarse started a position against the spx 500.

all via etfs except the stock short position.
my only short position in stocks...... for now :biggrin:


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

dogcom said:


> Buy RIM and hold it no chance, but trade it I might. I have traded RIM a few times in the past and posted it here.
> 
> I don't know the short positions on MFC or RIM but if they are big enough they could be used as ammunition for a trade as the shorts scramble to cover.


u better find a damn good reason then for Rim.
today they closed a gap.
it is as volatile as natural gas atm.
you should find out the short positions at all times.
i bought AMD and did not do my homework on it thinking that i had nailed the bottom .
well the bottom was bellow the bottom:biggrin:
lost 5k
sold at loss .
dead money.
reinvested and got it back.
one would ask why not wait for the stock to recover?
my answer is ... I never stay in a losing trade , specially stocks.
what if by any reason the company goes belly down ( i do not think AMD will or was going to) but there were other macrop events surrounding it.
hope that explains some of my strategies.
cheers

p.s i consider myself a terrible tech trader.
i bought NOK pre report and scalped it on the downturn.
my discipline makes me stay away from stocks before earnings report or any report.
I call it gambling .... specially stocks like those . 
well NOK came back really well and i could have made good coin .
nevertheless i do not consider that a loss.
it is just my discipline.
just like today on PBN 
i waited for the mkt reaction , observed the selloff and volume and daytraded it.
would i hold that company?
no.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Thanks for that negotiator. And don't worry about commenting on me making my own decisions because I hold myself accountable for everything I buy. If I get ticked off because I invested in something recommended on the forum then I should drop the DIY thing and head straight to an advisor.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

ur answer above is great.
discussions like these that we are having are very good and a learning experience .
I am all ears for any hint of a good trade that can be posted but i will not embrace it in full.
as for my positions above u can easily find several instruments to do those trades.
specially shorting stocks.
just call ur broker right?

one thing IMO that you may not be doing is checking short positions.
that I always do.
have a great night brother.
i think u are a gold bug are u not ?
check the GOLD BUGS INDEX -AMEX on stockcharts.symbol HUI
you will thank me later.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

My take on that as long as it stays above the hammer at 372 then everything is fine if not we will find another bottom. Or the 50 day makes its bearish cross under the 200 day moving average which will give us the washout for the big guys to buy into. Still however you can look at the bullish cross of the clear 50 over the 200 in Oct. it did absolutely nothing bullish if you look at the results. I don't follow moving averages much so educate me on what I am looking at. Or you can look at the RSI diverging from the downtrend as well which can be bullish.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

u are lucky i am awake after reading about the java vulnerability lol
and u are right about the 375 line.
take a look at where another possible bottom is if it was to occur.:hopelessness:
i will try to post a better image for ur reading

http://www.seeitmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Gold-Technical-Analysis-January-2013.png

the long term trend since 2009 is intact.
usually and from January on gold TENDS to go higher.
this year we have different macro political and economical headwinds so things are not so easy.
as a strict follower of FIBO , specially long term trends and support lines the chart clearly shows a strong support line at 375.
nevertheless in the beginning of January we were oversold and now we are somewhat neutral.
the mkt is looking for direction and any headwinds from the FED and the Central banks battle from Asia to the USA will have an impact on gold and silver.
as you saw today the spike down on silver and gold was intense , just because the Chinese inflation has increased.
from 9 am till 11 am silver dropped 60 cents on high volume for a Friday when traders usually cover some short positions.
take into account the following factors .
for several days in the past month Asia tanked gold and the and the American mkts had to bring it back up.
it is a silent but nerve wrecking battle happening behind the public scenes.
i could elaborate more but that is for another day.
we definitely do not want the 375 line broken because it will just increase the amount of selling by triggering sell stop losses on the way down ferociously.
I do not think that will happen but i do believe they will try and retest it.
If I am wrong then we saw the lows already and we are going up from here.
It is a hard trade also and I expect even more volatility.
we are in an area of the chart of make it or break it.
remember my post about 100k contracts traded pre market that tanked gold and took another 120k contracts to bring it back up but not completely up?
that is not pocket change brother.
that is money that u and I or any trader here will ever see in our lifetime.
Now i am definitely going to sleep:biggrin:
cheers


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

There is plenty to be concerned about that is for sure. This is a very dangerous market to play in and a ton of manipulation to keep traders away from this area and into something else as we mentioned in another thread.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

dogcom said:


> T.Gal I was wondering about RIM over the past couple of years, if you sold out today and calculated all the trading and holding roughly where would you be in the gain or loss column roughly. If you don't want to answer that is fine because it is your business and you can do whatever you want.


*2011:*

- realized losses = - 27.5%
- invested returned capital in another tech stock
- sold at + 39% [in 2012]

*2012:*

- realized gains = 68.6% [average of booking profits @50%/71%/85%]
- unrealized gains per Friday's close = 93% [2013]

Given the above, should stock go to $0 [I would sell b4 that, lol], I will not lose my skirt. 

*Lessons:*

- not all stocks are good candidates for averaging down 

- tech stocks are not for the faint of heart

- if stock declines continuously, especially a speculative one, that you were not planning on holding for long-term, swallow a small loss, as u could recover said loss by picking it up later at a potentially much cheaper price [like $7],  and/or by investing funds elsewhere

- it's much easier to recover a smaller loss than a bigger one [it was a lesson I learned with this stock]

- careful which stock you label as solid


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

So end the end you got your money back that you lost in 2011. In 2012 those three returns were on the same amount of capital? Ie. 50% on $10k, 71% on $10k and 85% on $10k? Just asking because you averaged the returns. 

Impressive.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

The only thing that was impressive [NOT], was the astonishing/spectacular fall of the stock.

Close enough [answer to 1st q].

RIM is only for those with stomach of steel [i have a much weaker stomach for rudeness & for foreign/new foods]. :biggrin:


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Regarding Grpn ,you traded once and lost.I bought on day one for $26.00 a share and sold out and lost too but if you scan this thread i posted several times what i bought and the price then posted my sells.There were few members concerned for me because at one time i had $30,000 tied up in the stock.I made most of my profits when it was playing in the $10.00 -$12.00 range ,several trades making average 14% ROI. I did it when it was also flipping down to $4.00 and went back to $5.00 that is 25% profit BTW.I will buy GRPN again but it has to get below $4 before I will try again.The longer I held GRPN was 5 weeks and i felt I was going to get stuck at that time so once I got out I scaled back the amount of cash i played with to under $10,000.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

BTW I am a novice trader and never planned to latch on to GRPN like I did but it kept working for me and remember I am a gambler at heart.Another stock I like that has been good to me is Comerica CMA-NYSE ,MY Average price is $23.80 now.Earnings report comes out this week but I plan to hold this one for a while.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I have never touched GRPN, though I was tempted to trade it when it fell below $5, but why, I rather trade the ones I hold long-term and/or the ones I have traded now a long time.

For a novice trader Marina, you sure risked a lot of money on a speculative stock like GRPN, though I realize that you probably were playing with PPs [poker-profits].

You're CMF gambler for sure! 

I would suggest that novice traders first try their luck/skills, or whatever you wish to call them, with inexpensive/safer stocks.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

t.gal you are correct I played my poker winnings on GRPN ,But now I am into Argo 5 pack with my poker winnings but to be fair GRPN was a good stock to me , may have been luck but I still plan to buy WHEN it goes under $4.00 again.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Marina: there are many factors in investing/trading success; luck is just one of them, hence it means that you're utilizing several factors in your entry/exit strategies.

Keep on growing your recycled profits, ie: profit making profit!


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Profits making profits... I've always wondered what people meant by play/speculate with only your "profits". At first, profits may be a very small amount of your capital to risk. Someone close to retirement will hopefully have about 80% of their portfolio consisting of "profits". Wouldn't want to gamble with your "profits" then.

The moment I count my profits is the moment all those profits become my capital. I think I have a strange way of looking at most things compared to others around here. I just don't see how $20 of hard earned money is any more sacred than $20 of gains. Investing is just a way of saying gambling while looking at the odds and vise versa. Stack the odds in your favour (hopefully) and give yourself a margin of error. Whether the odds are based off fundamentals or TA, or momentum or whatever does not matter. The important factor is that the odds are in your favour and you have to room to be wrong.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Thanks for the answer T.Gal you are always a good sport.

Jcgd I am just like you and that is once a gain is in my account at the end of the day then that is where I begin from like it never happened except for the learning part that goes with it.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I would never put all my profits at risk ,that is the difference in poker players and gamblers.I don't mind taking 15-20% and risk that but never anything more.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

dogcom said:


> OK many on this forum would like to call others out and why they bought, traded or invested in whatever whether it be stock or real estate so now is your chance to ask or answer for it if you want to.


Is this supposed to be the 'airing of grievances' thread? 

Speaking of which - whatever happened to Square Root?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> Is this supposed to be the 'airing of grievances' thread?


Festivus was last month!


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> Is this supposed to be the 'airing of grievances' thread?
> 
> Speaking of which - whatever happened to Square Root?


Probably in some tropical destination, enjoying his 400k monthly dividends - that's what I would be doing in his shoes. I certainly wouldn't be hanging around this forum - no offense intended of course. :tongue-new:


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> Is this supposed to be the 'airing of grievances' thread?
> 
> Speaking of which - whatever happened to Square Root?



It partly is I suppose Four Pillars but it is mostly for asking questions that you would like to ask on other threads but don't want to because you don't want to put the thread off topic.

As an example of something I wouldn't want to ask elsewhere is why do you enjoy posting and coming here when you have such a successful blog? My guess is like me you come here to interact on money things with other like minded people that you just can't do at home. My other reason is to learn new things and bounce off ideas.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Dog
been nice knowing ya and the interaction.
my posts here are gone.
it is meaningless and i can clearly see that it means nothing
GL in ur trades.
CIAO


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Good to have you here thenegotiator as well. I don't know what happened to your posts but good luck on your trades as well.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Hey thenegotiator, what you do post on? A mobile of some sort? Just curious about your unique formatting.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

^

like i said Dog .
the above poster is really funny is he not?
do i care about my formatting JCGD?
i care about my bank acct.
how is urs by the way?
lol
go back yo ur trading techniques lol:biggrin:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

dogcom said:


> As an example of something I wouldn't want to ask elsewhere is why do you enjoy posting and coming here when you have such a successful blog? My guess is like me you come here to interact on money things with other like minded people that you just can't do at home. My other reason is to learn new things and bounce off ideas.


You're right - I do like talking about money and this is definitely the place to do it.

As for forums vs blog - I guess the difference is that the forums are a quick way to find some money talk and get involved (or not). Great for spicing up a boring day at work.

The blog has some interactions, but it's more involved - especially with posting. The forums can be quick and easy.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> I do like talking about money and this is definitely the place to do it.


Also likes the forum because good friend MoneyGal is here. 

*TN:* I think jcgd was honestly curious & not trying to be funny in the way u thought.


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## thompsg4416 (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah I think TGAL is right he wasn't trying to be funny.. but TN's reply was funny as hell. Made me laugh.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

He made me laugh as well!

Anyhow, as he's long on uranium, I believe he and his bank account will indeed be smiling 2day.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> He made me laugh as well!
> 
> Anyhow, as he's long on uranium, I believe he and his bank account will indeed be smiling 2day.


:biggrin::biggrin::highly_amused:


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes, yes. I came across wrong but it was a serious. I pmed him after to try to explain myself... Wasn't trying to start anything. I should have pmed in the first place.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

jcgd said:


> Yes, yes. I came across wrong but it was a serious. I pmed him after to try to explain myself... Wasn't trying to start anything. I should have pmed in the first place.


Not sure why you are apologizing as your question was perfectly valid - I was wondering the same thing myself. It was his response that was a bit jerkish in my opinion.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Not sure why you are apologizing as your question was perfectly valid.... It was his response that was a bit jerkish in my opinion.


I agree with the latter part, however, just because words may be technically accurate/polite, it does not mean that there is no room for misinterpretation by others.

In general, it never hurts to clarify/apologize when you believe you have been misunderstood.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^^

Or instead of apologizing, just factually state what one was looking to understand.

At times peoples forget that products change, what people are looking for might be different etc. and on a bad day, can mistake a question/suggestion looking for the benefit as an arrogant attitude that is dictating what should be done.


Unless it is being repeated several times, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt as I've make my share of mistakes in reading, understanding or not keeping up with new possibilities. :rolleyes2: 

Cheers


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

Four Pillars said:


> Not sure why you are apologizing as your question was perfectly valid - I was wondering the same thing myself. It was his response that was a bit jerkish in my opinion.


as jerkish as many of you guys answer.
why do u have a problem with my writing also?
yes he apologized.
apologies accepted JCGD


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> You're right - I do like talking about money and this is definitely the place to do it.
> 
> As for forums vs blog - I guess the difference is that the forums are a quick way to find some money talk and get involved (or not). Great for spicing up a boring day at work.
> 
> The blog has some interactions, but it's more involved - especially with posting. The forums can be quick and easy.


Great when your bored or need a distraction from the markets of the day. The quick part is also great because as you know I like to play around in the market instead of just buy and hold. I think T.Gal probably has the play around the market disease as well. Kaejs is a good example of someone who must get really bored, worse then all of us with his trades to make 20 bucks here a fifty there. So Kaejs what is the reason for your fast trades to make a few bucks? Is it for the fast money, excitement or is it just outride boredom?


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

dogcom said:


> Great when your bored or need a distraction from the markets of the day. The quick part is also great because as you know I like to play around in the market instead of just buy and hold. I think T.Gal probably has the play around the market disease as well. Kaejs is a good example of someone who must get really bored, worse then all of us with his trades to make 20 bucks here a fifty there. So Kaejs what is the reason for your fast trades to make a few bucks? Is it for the fast money, excitement or is it just outride boredom?


the KAEJS part was really funny.
u made me laugh dog.
damn i promised i would stop posting.
thats it .
no more posting.
darn it


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> Probably in some tropical destination, enjoying his 400k monthly dividends - that's what I would be doing in his shoes. I certainly wouldn't be hanging around this forum - no offense intended of course. :tongue-new:


Square Root is a retired banking executive living in Phoenix. I think he has a summer home in Canmore.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

marina628 said:


> BTW I am a novice trader and never planned to latch on to GRPN like I did but it kept working for me and remember I am a gambler at heart.Another stock I like that has been good to me is Comerica CMA-NYSE ,MY Average price is $23.80 now.Earnings report comes out this week but I plan to hold this one for a while.


Going through my investment accounts this morning...CMA is up 300% now and a friend in Michigan put it on my radar.Same friend today told me about CRSP so putting this one in my TFSA in case he is right that it will be next amazon in 10 years lol


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