# What tax software is best?



## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I had someone else prepare my taxes for years. But now things are more simple and might do it myself. What software do you reccomend? Fairly simple return: employment and pension income, dividends, cap gains/losses.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

simpletax.ca ... i have used it for many years now and usually donate $20 but you don't have to donate anything ... a nice clean interface and easy to use


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

For free software, I would use Studio Tax simply because it is a program that resides on one's computer and isn't server based (like Simple Tax is) where your tax information would be stored in some other database. Like Simple Tax, it operates on a donation basis IF you choose to do so. There are also the Online versions of UFile and TurboTax but again, I wouldn't use anything that resides in third party databases. 

I have used the 'paid' version of UFile for years, while others have used the 'paid' version of TurboTax for years. They use 'interview' type interfaces to make it easier for the retail investor to determine which pages/forms need to be filled in. But not necessary in my view for people with pretty simple tax returns.

P.S. I have used Studio Tax every year to run 'what if' scenarios for tax planning, etc.


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

I use the Turbo tax standard version ~ $34. Will cover all your needs. Has a nice 'Easy step' feature with simple questions to guide you through inputting all your income , deductions, credits etc for the year. Has other tools as you go along too like RRSP and charitable donation etc optimizers. Full review for errors, checks then net file. Print all your forms to pdf. Very easy to use.

Imports your data from previous years too to save time and update RRSP room and other ongoing tax data.


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## *PetePerfectMan* (Jan 24, 2019)

I used Turbotax in computing my taxes. I used this for a year now and I don't have issue at all. Yuo can check out here https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tax-resources/canada-income-tax-calculator.jsp


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## Onagoth (May 12, 2017)

Turbo tax for me for over 10 years.

I like the forms method on it.

Personally, I do not trust a free software provider with that kind of information.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Forget what I've used many moons ago ... used TurboTax once, until I noticed that UFile covered everything I needed for less $$.

If it gets too expensive, I'll switch to StudioTax that I'm using to download what forms CRA has, run scenarios and double check the numbers.


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree UFile does everything TurboTax does for considerably less money (I used to be a Intuit Tax user). That said, we are jostling over the price of a 'lunch for one'. The amount is immaterial, especially if doing more than one tax return (I do 3).


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

StudioTax is what I recommend to people.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I agree UFile does everything TurboTax does for considerably less money (I used to be a Intuit Tax user). That said, we are jostling over the price of a 'lunch for one'. The amount is immaterial, especially if doing more than one tax return (I do 3).


I switched to UFile from TurboTax.. 7 seasons ago because it could no longer handle my international situations. Had some issues the first year that auto-fill feature was added but manual works fine (haven't tried that auto-fill since)

I also use Studio Tax to run a comparison. UFile typically runs a promo around cyber monday/early Dec and I just pay then


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## RussT (Jul 11, 2016)

I have used Ufile for years and I'm satisfied with price and performance. I do about a dozen returns. I'm very familiar with the interface and see no reason to change.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

greedyrates just completed this comparison
Conclusions


> Experiencing information overload due to the sheer number of income tax programs available? You’re not alone. Although we encourage you to consider the features of each program, if you’re overwhelmed and anxious to choose a well-rounded tax software, TurboTax is generally a safe bet. It’s Canada’s best-selling tax software for good reason: the interface is sleek and easy to use, whether you’ve been filing your taxes on your own for many years or it’s your first time.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Duplicate


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

soo.... to branch off a little, I'd like to ask "what FREE tax software is best?"
I see a couple of votes for Studio Tax. any other comments?


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## l1quidfinance (Mar 17, 2017)

I would go with Studio tax. Certainally not as intuitive as using Turbo Tax but it is very good. 

Turbo tax just gives us the edge on convenience and so we pay the premium for that.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Studio Tax as well though I have never looked* under the hood enough to see if it optimizes (iterates) how to maximize tax refunds by allocating pension income, donations, etc. between spouses. Without a doubt, it is perfect for an individual but others would have to jump in here to say whether Studio Tax optimizes between spouses.

Example: For seniors, there is an age credit but that is clawed back as income increases. So depending on the MTR of the higher income spouse, and the lower income spouse, it may NOT be optimal to split a full 50% of pension income. Indeed, for spouses in the middle tax bracket, it could be that the lower income spouse should split pension income with the higher income spouse so that the lower income spouse gets more age credit. It is not necessarily intuitive. Same with charitable/political donations. If Studio Tax does not do this, taxpayer and spouse could be paying more tax than necessary, if they don't optimize manually.

* I use Studio Tax during the year for some tax planning but never have used it to optimize between spouses. When I use UFile, it goes through a MaxBack optimization routine that takes many seconds where it iterates between spouses.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I use FutureTax which costs $8 for one return


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

kcowan said:


> greedyrates just completed this comparison
> Conclusions
> 
> 
> > ... TurboTax is generally a safe bet. It’s Canada’s best-selling tax software for good reason: the interface is sleek and easy to use, whether you’ve been filing your taxes on your own for many years or it’s your first time.


Interesting as I seem to recall I found TurboTax's interface more confusing than what I was using at the time as well as UFile that I switched to. It was long ago so maybe they have improved it since. With UFile covering what I need, I'm not about to spend the extra to see what's changed.


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree that without testing TurboTax again, we are speculating on one versus the other. I am happy with UFile and that is all that matters for me, for the 3 returns I do.


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

They are all probably pretty good. It just depends which one you started w. Lots of inertia to change, ability to import past returns etc.


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## undersc0re (Oct 7, 2017)

I gave simpletax a try, I get an error as follows...you received too many t5008's to report through auto fill, we recommend using your trading summary to report capital gains and losses. I assume software would not auto calculate and adjust the acb...

Do the other tax software packages autofill say 100 t5008's or do they all have a maximum? Also any suggestions on what is the best autofill tax software....I feel as though I am sounding lazy now, I remember doing it on paper and mailing it in not too many years ago, it will be the first time reporting with a small amount of trading canadian securities in a non registered account this time though.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I have used Studio Tax for the past three years. Happy with it. I run it on my desktop.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Studio Tax as well though I have never looked* under the hood enough to see if it optimizes (iterates) how to maximize tax refunds by allocating pension income, donations, etc. between spouses. Without a doubt, it is perfect for an individual but others would have to jump in here to say whether Studio Tax optimizes between spouses.


It does optimize between spouses. - been using it for 11 years.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

undersc0re said:


> Do the other tax software packages autofill say 100 t5008's or do they all have a maximum? Also any suggestions on what is the best autofill tax software....I feel as though I am sounding lazy now, I remember doing it on paper and mailing it in not too many years ago, it will be the first time reporting with a small amount of trading canadian securities in a non registered account this time though.


I don't know how one can have 100 T5008s. AFAIK, each brokerage only issues one, which of course can have multiple 'sales' entries on Schedule 3.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

TDDI issues one summary T5008 to me, but they submit them to the CRA individually (and that is what we download). Even each HISA transaction gets its own CRA-T5008. So there can be a large number of them.

I don't/won't use auto-fill so can't speak to any Turbotax limits. But the op should know that ACB isn't going to be populated for them. They will still need to do that calculation themselves.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Ahhh! Guess Auto-fill still isn't ready for prime time yet. No way HISA transactions should be there in my opinion, and 'same day' partial fill transactions on everything else should be consolidated into one. I tried auto-fill when it first came out in 2014? and it was a disaster. It didn't even differentiate between CAD and USD transactions, on anything including T3s and T5s. I have avoided it ever since.


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## undersc0re (Oct 7, 2017)

I gave free studio tax a shot and it autofilled all my t5008 just nicely, was only 33 of them so not sure if studio tax has a limit on those. I think it might have done the acb on a stock i bought at 2 different times then sold all at once all 3 transactions in the same year, does cibc do this for you if it is same year transactions? Thinking I should do the math to double check it autofilled the acb correctly...but studio tax is the best of 3 free softwares I have tried now.

Too bad there is not a vote at the beginning of the thread we can vote on and that people can watch on maybe the top 5 softwares or something of that nature.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There should be NO auto-fill of ANY ACB data at any time. No one, not even CIBC, can actually know what your ACB is. Neither BMOIL nor Scotia iTrade fill in any ACB data on the T5008.


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## undersc0re (Oct 7, 2017)

AltaRed said:


> There should be NO auto-fill of ANY ACB data at any time. No one, not even CIBC, can actually know what your ACB is. Neither BMOIL nor Scotia iTrade fill in any ACB data on the T5008.


 Is this just because they don't know if you trade elsewhere? This day and age you would think if you deal with just the one institution they could acb the autofill assuming you only deal with them, especially if necessary info per transaction is saved for this purpose. My only broker is cibc, so I would assume my acb would be very simple. I will definetely calculate my own acb when I have access to the computer i did my taxes on again and compare! I only have 2 stocks that should have acb done with them so should not be too bad.

Is acb something the cra always does a red flag double check on?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Only you know you trade at only one institution. CIBC can't possibly validate that and would be stretching short of you signing a legal affidavit affirming that. Further, you might be the only one that would know about 'superficial losses', i.e. I wouldn't trust any institution to have the algorithms in place to flag that. Investors have to take responsibility for their own data.

I don't think CRA does much in the way of validating one's ACBs of Schedule 3 entries BUT if they were doing their job right, they should at least reject any FI T5008 data that has the ACB box filled in.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Don't forget to donate to Studio Tax if you like it. I have been using it since 2010...never had any issue so far.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i always continue to recommend again www.adjustedcostbase.ca as a great site to track your acb

simple and quick to register, easy to use and the basic and quite robust functions are completely free

i enter all my transactions and make the foreign exchange if necessary so i keep a running account of everything in canada dollars and then just fill in line by line in my tax software


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> I use FutureTax which costs $8 for one return


Warning! I retract my recommendation. This failed for me this year, the software does not proceed through NETFILE. It just hangs and now I don't know if my taxes have been filed.

I'm going to try Studio Tax now


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

undersc0re said:


> I gave free studio tax a shot and it autofilled all my t5008 just nicely, was only 33 of them so not sure if studio tax has a limit on those. I think it might have done the acb on a stock i bought at 2 different times then sold all at once all 3 transactions in the same year, does cibc do this for you if it is same year transactions? Thinking I should do the math to double check it autofilled the acb correctly...but studio tax is the best of 3 free softwares I have tried now.


I have used Studio Tax for some time. Never used the auto-fill, because we split our investments. I also can not see how it could do acbs. Some of our holdings were bought years ago at a FSB and them moved to on-line brokerage. Then some were transferred from BMOIL to RBCDI and then back again. Others added to by transfers in-kind from RRIFs. I just could not see how CRA would have the records we have used to keep track of our acbs.

While using Studio Tax this year, I was thinking about how easy it would be for a new user. 
It does have a rudimentary Interview (Wizard). But that only collects basic information. 
It does do returns for couples and does have an optimizer that handles pension split, medical and donations
If you want to split T-slips, you have to know to click on a button after entering each one so that the data will also appear in spouse's return. 
When it comes to Capital Gains/Losses, it does not do the splits. You must calculate and split those yourself and enter in each spouse's return. 
I had to go find Medical & Donations in upper menu bar before entering them. Thought the entry forms would have come up in Wizard. Maybe I missed them at that point.
It did automatically claim the Climate Change Incentive.
Those are just off top of head comments some time after actually doing return.

I keep using Studio Tax, because it works for our relatively simple returns and it imports data from previous years return. 

Haven't net-filed yet, but have in past with no problems. CRA never found any errors.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Switching to Studio Tax from other software, what are carry-forward amounts I should be watching out for or manually transferring? The obvious ones to me are RRSP unused contributions from last year, and T936 (Cumulative Net Investment Loss) which tracks cumulative income and expenses over many years. I believe this is how CRA checks that you aren't doing ridiculous losses that wipe out all investment income.

Is there anything else I should manually carry into from my old tax software?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Loss carryfowards IF you have losses of other years (as noted by your latest NOA, for example).


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> Loss carryfowards IF you have losses of other years (as noted by your latest NOA, for example).


Yes I do have some carry forward loss (as per NoA). Is there a place in Studio Tax I should track the current balance of that? I'm not claiming any loss for this year, though.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Yes I do have some carry forward loss (as per NoA). Is there a place in Studio Tax I should track the current balance of that? I'm not claiming any loss for this year, though.


No, I don't think you need to do anything until you use your losses. I think there are forms that will, for example allow you carry a current loss back to offset previous capital gains (3 yr limit). I used that in past Something like Request for Loss carryback. You can carry losses forward indefinitely. I believe those just show up in your online CRA My Account for future use.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Yes I do have some carry forward loss (as per NoA). Is there a place in Studio Tax I should track the current balance of that? I'm not claiming any loss for this year, though.


There probably is a place to populate that (simply because anyone starting with a new file like you would want to input that number) but am not familiar enough with ST to know where that goes, i.e. normally the software would carry forward a number and then you would elect to use however much of it you might want in the current year. I might take a look myself out of curiousity later today.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks agent99 and AltaRed. I'm feeling a bit thrown off having to re-enter all my (complicated) taxes in new software when I thought I was ready to file and call it done last night 

I take some big foreign tax credits and I need to make sure those are done right to end up with nil taxes due.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

NETFILE'd using Studio Tax. Something I didn't realize before is that immediately after submitting, you can log into My Account at CRA, go to Tax Returns, and click the new filing. On mine this showed 2018 as "Assessed" right after I filed, and I can see the values of different parts of the return. It's not the NoA but it's a nice way to see the data was transferred successfully.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

AltaRed said:


> Guess Auto-fill still isn't ready for prime time yet.


My wife and I use turbo-tax and when my wife used it she started by auto-filling. It took in the T5008 info, but we had to nuke all that info and fill out Schedule 3 correctly. When she net-filed it apparently re-did the auto-fill and simultaneously did the net-file with the bogus T5008 info, all with 0 ACB. It's a total nightmare now since the netfile shows she made a 3/4 million and owes $200K. She spoke to the CRA and received the advice that she has to wait to do a correction.

Personally, I am dubious about the T5008 handling, and in any event, I always print and submit on paper with receipts.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear that gardner. I hate those T5008s... just about useless. I can't believe they would try to automate T5008 and ACBs, it can't work.

When she NETFILE'd, did the system interpret this as a big capital gain and add this to income?


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Switching to Studio Tax from other software, what are carry-forward amounts I should be watching out for or manually transferring?


 perhaps unused donations


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

james4beach said:


> When she NETFILE'd, did the system interpret this as a big capital gain and add this to income?


Yes, exactly. She had a large CG to begin with, but adding all the T5008 line items on top, all accounted for as $0 ACB, put her in the stratosphere.

It wouldn't even be so bad if TT put T5008 items into Schedule 3 as line items, but it doesn't -- it puts the line items into one of those horizontal-scrolling receipt tables like it does for T3s and T5s. This U/I is really awful for 10 or 12 T5s, but for dozens of T5008 line items, it is hopeless. Then there is a total CG from receipts box that it fills out from the bogus T5008 data.

I really feel like TT has failed on T5008 handling. There should at least be a validation that the ACB can't be zero unless you specifically override it to 0. And the U/I sucks.

I'd be curious if any of the other tax packages do T5008 handling any more clearly. I have a long list of complaints about TT and I will switch to something else next year, but I am not sure what. At this point I mainly use TT because it's what I used last year and I have to use SOMETHING in order to report in the format that the CRA wants.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I tried auto-fill on Ufile when it first came out.

I ended up with anomalies without any warnings or prompts and couldn't find any way to solve it. Eventually I googled it and found out the only solution was to delete it and start over without auto-fill

Haven't touched auto-fill ever since


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Gardner, IMO this is not a TT problem. The problem is that the T5008 slip info is never complete, cost being the most glaring missing data. The CRA requires companies to issue a T5008 for (nearly) all securities sold that year. Some are not even reportable as far as CG's.
I ignore the T5008 slips and simply fill in Sched 3 with relevant securities. I do check that my proceeds number aligns with that reported on the T5008 for those that need Sched 3 reporting.
As others have noted, I never use auto-fill either.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

gardner said:


> I really feel like TT has failed on T5008 handling. There should at least be a validation that the ACB can't be zero unless you specifically override it to 0. And the U/I sucks.
> 
> I'd be curious if any of the other tax packages do T5008 handling any more clearly. I have a long list of complaints about TT and I will switch to something else next year, but I am not sure what. At this point I mainly use TT because it's what I used last year and I have to use SOMETHING in order to report in the format that the CRA wants.


Like OMO, I don't think this is a TT problem. UFile did the same thing a few years back when I tried auto-fill...and may still be the same (don't know since I only every attempted auto-fill that one time). I think the software could actually have a warning flag when ACB is zero, but not to prohibit it. Don't know what the solution is for T5008 construction and data outputs...given frequent traders and the need to catch superficial losses. All I can say is thank goodness that my Schedule 3 entries are next to nothing and I rely on my own data.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Do any of the tax packages handle currency conversion? I get some T5s and T3s in $US. Desktop TurboTax doesn't have any provision for helping with this. I feel like the tax software should know the CRA/BOC official rates for the tax year in question and allow you to enter the actual number from the T5, choose the currency, and calculate the $C value. Instead I have to go through the form and manually convert all the values before entering them.

I believe a complete feature would have the software know the yearly average rate for several years and maybe the daily noon rate for every day in the tax year for $US, EUR, Sterling and maybe CHF, then let me choose the currency, maybe choose a date or year and finally, let me enter an actual conversion rate, if other than the BOC one.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

AltaRed said:


> I don't think this is a TT problem.


I disagree. It is a simple fact that the T5008 is necessarily incomplete and inaccurate and this, of course, is not TT's fault. It is the way that TT handles the T5008 data as if it is complete and accurate that is a serious bug. It should not be submitting $0 ACBs unless the user has manually confirmed that the ACB is $0.

I spent some time on the (terrible) Turbotax help forum and it looks like others have been caught out by T5008 problems. People complain about the cost basis being $0, about the gains being incorrectly attributed as income vs. CG. The CRA guidance on T5008 is quite explicit that the data could well be incorrect or incomplete, but the Turbotax handling and the help info is not geared for this. It does not, for instance, have a simple validation that the ACB has been entered or a check-for-errors function that flags this.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

gardner said:


> Do any of the tax packages handle currency conversion? I get some T5s and T3s in $US. Desktop TurboTax doesn't have any provision for helping with this. I feel like the tax software should know the CRA/BOC official rates for the tax year in question and allow you to enter the actual number from the T5, choose the currency, and calculate the $C value. Instead I have to go through the form and manually convert all the values before entering them.
> 
> I believe a complete feature would have the software know the yearly average rate for several years and maybe the daily noon rate for every day in the tax year for $US, EUR, Sterling and maybe CHF, then let me choose the currency, maybe choose a date or year and finally, let me enter an actual conversion rate, if other than the BOC one.


I don't know of any tax software that gives you all that you want, nor do I think it is necessary or even appropriate as it would most likely be used erroneously by most. 

UFile has a data entry box on T5 input for a foreign currency conversion factor that the taxpayer fills in. The UFile T5 entry form does provide the USD annual average rate as a customer service so the taxpayer doesn't have to look it up, which is the appropriate CRA measure for 'annual recurring income' but they can't possibly have a database for dozens of currencies for dozens of years. 

It would erroneous for software to provide any other currency data points, e.g. on Schedule 3 for example, since the software has no way of knowing your ACB in a foreign currency (could be several acquisition dates, all with different CAD equivalent rates). As for T3 tax slips, they already come in CAD (never seen a foreign currency on a T3 tax slip, nor is there a box for stating foreign currency on the T3 tax slip, i.e. all trusts have to conduct their business in CAD equivalent and thus pass through their income in CAD.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

gardner said:


> I disagree. It is a simple fact that the T5008 is necessarily incomplete and inaccurate and this, of course, is not TT's fault. It is the way that TT handles the T5008 data as if it is complete and accurate that is a serious bug. It should not be submitting $0 ACBs unless the user has manually confirmed that the ACB is $0.
> 
> I spent some time on the (terrible) Turbotax help forum and it looks like others have been caught out by T5008 problems. People complain about the cost basis being $0, about the gains being incorrectly attributed as income vs. CG. The CRA guidance on T5008 is quite explicit that the data could well be incorrect or incomplete, but the Turbotax handling and the help info is not geared for this. It does not, for instance, have a simple validation that the ACB has been entered or a check-for-errors function that flags this.


Gardiner, can you speak to which tax software does handle the issue better?

I'm concerned that the CRA will eventually require brokers to complete the T5008, incl cost base to 'the best of their ability', and require the T1 to capture actual T5008 data (right or wrong), then require us to explain/support any differences in the value we carry.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

gardner said:


> I disagree. It is a simple fact that the T5008 is necessarily incomplete and inaccurate and this, of course, is not TT's fault. It is the way that TT handles the T5008 data as if it is complete and accurate that is a serious bug. It should not be submitting $0 ACBs unless the user has manually confirmed that the ACB is $0.
> 
> I spent some time on the (terrible) Turbotax help forum and it looks like others have been caught out by T5008 problems. People complain about the cost basis being $0, about the gains being incorrectly attributed as income vs. CG. The CRA guidance on T5008 is quite explicit that the data could well be incorrect or incomplete, but the Turbotax handling and the help info is not geared for this. It does not, for instance, have a simple validation that the ACB has been entered or a check-for-errors function that flags this.


If T5008 format is indeed a TT problem, then other tax software like UFile has the same problem, and yes, I have provided responses to people in the UFile Community (forum) on the same issues you speak of. I know the issue I had with UFile 3? years ago was the T5008 data populating both Schedule 3 and Schedule 4.... income AND cap gains. There does not seem to be an 'industry' standard for T5008 identification or format. 

FWIW, I agree tax software should at least flag $0 ACB as a warning (but not as a hard override). One can indeed have a 0$ ACB in a long held REIT for example.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I've always somewhat ignored T5008 and just entered my capital gains and losses and cost base directly into the schedule from my spreadsheets that I maintain through the year. I do look at the T5008 as sort of a crosscheck against my spreadsheet in case I might have made a mistake through the year, but so far they always seem to match up.

I've always used Turbo Tax and haven't entertained any auto fill or interview type entry. It always seemed like it was open to a lot of problems, so I avoid it.

I hope they don't ever force people to do this auto fill. It sounds like it doesn't work out too good.

ltr


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Gardiner, can you speak to which tax software does handle the issue better?


Nope. AltaRed's comments indicate that UFile is at least as bad -- maybe worse. But just because many, even all, software packages get the feature wrong does not make it okay.



> I'm concerned that the CRA will eventually require brokers to complete the T5008, incl cost base to 'the best of their ability', and require the T1 to capture actual T5008 data (right or wrong), then require us to explain/support any differences in the value we carry.


I see that day coming too, and it gives me the willies. This year 100% of my T5008 transactions were TDB815x and DLR. The ISA ones are not capital transactions at all, and the DLR ones result in currency gain/loss that I have to calculate and report in section 5. My actual gain/loss was in an eTrade account that did not issue a T5008 at all. It seems that the CRA *must* be aware of the limitations of the T5008 -- it's hard to believe that they would seriously trust it any time soon. But they make stupid policy decisions every day, so who am I to judge.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

gardner said:


> Nope. AltaRed's comments indicate that UFile is at least as bad -- maybe worse. But just because many, even all, software packages get the feature wrong does not make it okay.


Not sure I'd say 'maybe worse'. There are issues per the UFile community, as in $0 ACB, but my experience with 'income' was 3 or so years ago. Don't know if that is still an issue. Either way, the T5008 is not ready for prime time.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

AltaRed said:


> UFile has a data entry box on T5 input for a foreign currency conversion factor that the taxpayer fills in. The UFile T5 entry form does provide the USD annual average rate


That is a good basic feature. It would be better if it knew Sterling and Euros too, but for my use, $US is the one I care about most.



> they can't possibly have a database for dozens of currencies for dozens of years.


Why not? It's just a few hundred numbers. The BoC has the info. By the time the tax software is being used it's all just a bunch of historical data that could easily be baked into a table that the software uses. There is no technical difficulty with this.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

gardner said:


> ... I see that day coming too, and it gives me the willies. This year 100% of my T5008 transactions were TDB815x and DLR. The ISA ones are not capital transactions at all, and the DLR ones result in currency gain/loss that I have to calculate and report in section 5. My actual gain/loss was in an eTrade account that did not issue a T5008 at all. It seems that the CRA *must* be aware of the limitations of the T5008 -- it's hard to believe that they would seriously trust it any time soon. But they make stupid policy decisions every day, so who am I to judge.


Odd, I know that TDDI generated T5008's out the wazoo for the CRA in 2017 for each sale of TDB8150 (ISA MF) I made (while their T5008 to me was a summary table). But I noticed that for 2018 they did not generate them. They did still generate them for other security 'sales' that don't result in a Sched 3 reportable event (CG or CL), such as the issuance of WN shares to L shareholders last year, and strip bonds that have matured. Neither require any Sched 3 reporting or action for 2018.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm also afraid that CRA will get the idea to take T5008s seriously. I really hope they don't start doing this.

In my current filing I have nearly half million$ of proceeds from trades, partly due to gambits (tons of $ volume) plus currency conversion which is something the broker will not ever be able to capture properly, since I know my "cost" of the foreign currency and the broker doesn't (and can't ever know). I always track these on my own spreadsheet where it's crystal clear what cost, proceeds, and gain was.

It's possible T5008 is used as a kind of sanity check. Perhaps CRA applies a heuristic to make sure numbers reported on Schedule 3 look kind of right. When you do a NETFILE, the sum of all your proceeds is sent in one of the electronic fields. Since CRA also gets T5008s, perhaps at this stage they compare the total proceeds as per T5008 against total proceeds you wrote on Schedule 3. If there's a large discrepancy, maybe that's when they take a closer look? This would make sense and wouldn't be a terrible use of T5008s as long as they are not taken literally.

Even though my Schedule 3 (including FX and gambits) is pretty complicated, for this year's filing I took a look at the hidden NETFILE total proceeds field. It was actually pretty close to the proceeds off T5008. You can find the field if you log into your CRA account and look at the "Assessment" link for a breakdown of all the transmitted fields.


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## DenisD (Apr 19, 2009)

Every year, I auto-fill my return with every tax form except the T5008s. This year, SimpleTax didn't even offer me the T5008s. Turns out they won't download more than 25. Instead, they suggested I just enter a summary of my gains/losses. This is what I've been doing for years. I've been assuming that CRA still just gets the summary via NetFile. Glad to have it confirmed.



SimpleTax Help said:


> I have too many T5008s to import through Auto-fill, what should I do?
> 
> If you have more than 25 T5008 slips, it’s much easier to use the Capital Gains & Losses section to report your dispositions. Accordingly, we will not import them through Auto-fill for you.
> 
> ...


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Odd, I know that TDDI generated T5008's out the wazoo for the CRA in 2017 for each sale of TDB8150 (ISA MF) I made (while their T5008 to me was a summary table). But I noticed that for 2018 they did not generate them. They did still generate them for other security 'sales' that don't result in a Sched 3 reportable event (CG or CL), such as the issuance of WN shares to L shareholders last year, and strip bonds that have matured. Neither require any Sched 3 reporting or action for 2018.


Yeah, I noticed that this year. Every year past TDDI have filled my T5008 with HISA sales that had me scratching my head because it never creates gains or loses, so why put it on the form, but this year it wasn't there. They finally figured it out.

ltr


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Odd, I know that TDDI generated T5008's out the wazoo for the CRA in 2017 for each sale of TDB8150 (ISA MF) [ ... ] But I noticed that for 2018 they did not generate them.


... for Canadian dollars. I have a slew of line items for TDB8152 ($US).


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

gardner said:


> ... for Canadian dollars. I have a slew of line items for TDB8152 ($US).


They should not have done that either. I believe that is a USD deposit account, i.e. ISA. There is no cap gains/losses triggered by moving back and forth between brokerage USD cash in account and ISA USD cash. I'd ignore them.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> They should not have done that either. I believe that is a USD deposit account, i.e. ISA. There is no cap gains/losses triggered by moving back and forth between brokerage USD cash in account and ISA USD cash. I'd ignore them.


I remember way back we discussed TDB8150 transaction being reported on T5008's. When TDDI started putting it on the T5008 everyone wondered if it wasn't entered on schedule 3, if CRA would question it (even though it can never produce a capital gain or loss on sale). I've never entered it and just ignored the T5008 entries and I have never been questioned about it. Now this year, TDDI stopped logging those sales on the T5008, so that case is closed for me.

But I think we also discussed the $US situation. I don't remember the result. I know that they say on the AdjustedCostBase web site: _"When you convert Canadian dollars into a foreign currency, the adjusted cost base is established in Canadian dollars. When the funds are later converted back into Canadian dollars, a capital gain or loss will be realized if the exchange rate has fluctuated"._ 

But in that article I link if you look down the page there's a question from someone about TDB8152. They ask, _"In my taxable US dollar account with a Canadian brokerage, I often move cash in and out of a high interest savings account at a bank such as TDB8152 which trades at a price of $10. Am I correct that this is still considered US cash (the same capital property) and that simply moving the money between the brokerage and the bank fund does not constitute a capital transaction?"_

The site doesn't seem to give a definitive answer.

ltr


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

AltaRed said:


> I'd ignore them.


Yup. It's just noise.

Interesting though, since I was looking at my T5008 just now I saw that it shows TDB8152 being disposed of in my C$ account. This had me puzzled until I realised it was an in-kind contribution I had made to my $US RRSP. And then I realized that I had failed to account for that in calculating my $US currency gains for the year. Turns out that particular RRSP contribution generated a loss of $38. Just goes to show you how important the T5008 really is! But I don't think I'm going to re-file for the $6 in recovered tax.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

like_to_retire said:


> Am I correct that this is still considered US cash (the same capital property) and that simply moving the money between the brokerage and the bank fund does not constitute a capital transaction?


This article is "archived" but I think it is still accurate:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...r/archived-foreign-exchange-gains-losses.html

Section 13 includes...



> Foreign currency funds on deposit are not considered to be disposed of until they are converted into another currency or are used to purchase a negotiable instrument or some other asset, i.e. foreign funds on deposit may be moved from one form of deposit to another as long as such funds can continue to be viewed as "on deposit". Term deposits, guaranteed investment certificates and other similar deposits which are in fact not negotiable, are considered funds on deposit.


My reading is that transferring in and out of an investment savings account does not trigger a gain or loss.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree completely. Just remember a MMF is not considered a deposit account. it theoretically can break $10 a unit, and issues a T3 tax slip, not a T5 like a brokerage ISA.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> I agree completely. Just remember a MMF is not considered a deposit account. it theoretically can break $10 a unit, and issues a T3 tax slip, not a T5 like a brokerage ISA.


It is kind of weird that the ISA things are not mutual funds at all. They are savings account deposit vehicles that are just traded, for convenience, using the mutual fund order system. So while they are bought and sold using the mutual fund infrastructure, they are not mutual funds at all.

The way the banks chose to implement this does make the ISAs look like mutual funds/money market funds, which is confusing.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Yes, it is confusing, but they needed some kind of vehicle to facilitate transactions. Maybe could have used the bond system with no bid/ask spread, or GIC system, but unwieldy as well.


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

I thought for 2020 with tax season approaching I would find out what people are planning to use for this years tax season ? 

I have always used TurboTax, but I was looking and Simple Tax (ST) looks good and free too. ST seems to have been bought out by Wealth Simple and their site doesnt have the 2020 season/year for an option - only 2019 and presumably older years. I dont know if the 2020 year will open up or if its now within Wealth Simple for their clients.

Looking for you opinions and info.....


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

hfp75 said:


> I thought for 2020 with tax season approaching I would find out what people are planning to use for this years tax season ?
> 
> I have always used TurboTax, but I was looking and Simple Tax (ST) looks good and free too. ST seems to have been bought out by Wealth Simple and their site doesnt have the 2020 season/year for an option - only 2019 and presumably older years. I dont know if the 2020 year will open up or if its now within Wealth Simple for their clients.
> 
> Looking for you opinions and info.....


Check the Studio Tax thread - lots of discussion there.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I do my taxes online with TurboTax via a Mac, its straight forward to do and no issues for the several years i have been using it. I remember doing taxes back in the 90's on the blue paper forms and pencil.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I have used Ufile for quite a number of years now. It has done the job quite nicely and is around $20.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Double tap


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

Apparently SimpleTax will have their 2020 version ready in the next week.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

hfp75 said:


> Apparently SimpleTax will have their 2020 version ready in the next week.


From what I read on the Studio Tax thread, Simple Tax is an on-line program vs Studio Tax, Turbo Tax and some others that run on your own computer. Some seemed uneasy about having their personal tax info up on a cloud!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

SimpleTax is definitely online only and seems to have a "Start Your 2020 Tax Return" button available today.

StudioTax is local install only.


Others like TurboTax and UFile have both so that the customer can choose.which they are comfortable with.



Cheers


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

agent99 said:


> From what I read on the Studio Tax thread, Simple Tax is an on-line program vs Studio Tax, Turbo Tax and some others that run on your own computer. Some seemed uneasy about having their personal tax info up on a cloud!


I'm going to try GenuTax this year. It's downloadable.

Does anybody have feedback about GenuTax?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I suspect you'll have to provide the feedback. 
I can recall it from the wiki article but I don't recall anyone posting they used it.


Cheers


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Tostig said:


> I'm going to try GenuTax this year. It's downloadable.
> 
> Does anybody have feedback about GenuTax?


I have friend who does a number of returns using Genutax including one or two small businesses. I recall him having some problems with the software, but probably because it did not handle something he needed correctly. I will ask hime for an update.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Some of the restrictions that jump out, considering who is likely posting on CMF are the paper driven T1135 and the lack of a Quebec provincial return.

'Course if your friend is doing small business returns for more than their own small business, I'd expect the "personal use only" to potentially be a problem. YMMV though.


Restrictions - GenuTax Standard




Cheers


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Tostig said:


> I'm going to try GenuTax this year. It's downloadable.
> 
> Does anybody have feedback about GenuTax?


Checked with someone who has used it for years and his experience has been good. I may try running it in parallel with Studio Tax. Genutax is not available for download until near the end of February. Studio Tax available now.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Checked with someone who has used it for years and his experience has been good. I may try running it in parallel with Studio Tax. Genutax is not available for download until near the end of February. Studio Tax available now.


I posted this in another thread. But so far, my experience with Genutax is not that good. I used the comprehensive interview, and it was a pain. I had my wife type in all the donations and medical expenses. It doesn't have the optimizers that Studio Tax has for split pension and medical/donation expenses. I never found where I should enter the accrued tax that I had paid when buying bonds. Can't look at the equivalents of the paper return until you have printed the return (I printed to a pdf)

I did use the auto-fill option. That helps, but ST has that too. I don't know whether it is a CRA or Genutax issue, but all entries from the T5008s are truncated to whole numbers. For example, $10.99 becomes $10.00.

Probably OK for some, but most people don't need the extensive interview that the program recommends. Personally, I prefer the minimal interview that ST uses.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

It makes too much sense if CRA produces their own tax software so that everybody inputs and submits their tax returns consistently.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I have filed via the TurboTax website for many years and have never had an issue of any kind.


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

I use Turbotax too and it has worked well. It is user friendly with easy steps to guide you through the process and netfiling is always reliable and fast. You can import last year's data to the current year return which is also convenient. Once you get familiar w one program there is inertia to change to another.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

newfoundlander61 said:


> I have filed via the TurboTax website for many years and have never had an issue of any kind.


Nothing to hide, but I would rather have my tax records on my own computer (and backup drive), rather than on Intuits or anyone else's servers. That and the $$ I otherwise had to pay for the CD version. 

Before I retired, I used Turbotax (off-line) and it's predecessor. I gave up on it because it could not handle one part of my return after CRA made some changes (change in business year end)Same problem when I tried U-file.

I don't know if there are other programs like Studio Tax where you can actually pull up facsimiles of the actual paper return forms during input, just as they would appear if you mailed in your return. The others are like doing your taxes looking through a keyhole 

Jimmy said: _"Once you get familiar with one program there is inertia to change to another. "_

I am not hesitant to try different software. Started with Quicktax/Turbotax (both on/off line), Taxfreeway, Studiotax. Have test run U-File and now tried Genutax. Will most likely just use Studio Tax again. At $15, it is still a best buy for me


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Yes. I'm staying with Studio Tax.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Just had a problem auto-filling! I thought I did it correctly. Proper bank account number and password. But it said Oops - something went wrong! Then I got locked out of BMO. Luckily they have a way of changing password on-line. In doing that, I found the problem by clicking on the 👁️‍🗨️ (displays password) - The capslock was on . Not hard to do while entering other items in caps and then switching to log into the partner site to autofill. Learned something! Now CRA says their site is down and to check back later!


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

StudioTax costs money now for personal use, $15 for up to 20 tax returns. First time they've charged, but I'm intending on using them again.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Just had a problem auto-filling! I thought I did it correctly. Proper bank account number and password. But it said Oops - something went wrong! Then I got locked out of BMO. Luckily they have a way of changing password on-line. In doing that, I found the problem by clicking on the 👁️‍🗨️ (displays password) - The capslock was on . Not hard to do while entering other items in caps and then switching to log into the partner site to autofill. Learned something! Now CRA says their site is down and to check back later!


I tried autofill earlier last week, and it would just hang at the downloading documents part... after 20 mins, I figure I'ld quit and just do it by hand. The only reason why I'd want to do the autofill is if something was submitted to CRA before I got my slip. I'm still missing out on a couple of T3s which are always late.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Didn't CRA lock out 80,000 accounts due to suspected hacking?


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> I tried autofill earlier last week, and it would just hang at the downloading documents part... after 20 mins, I figure I'ld quit and just do it by hand. The only reason why I'd want to do the autofill is if something was submitted to CRA before I got my slip. I'm still missing out on a couple of T3s which are always late.


I went to autofill mainly for the T5008s. I usually entered trades manually, but last year I did a lot of rearranging of portfolio. On Genutax, you have to enter trades one at a time - would be a slow process. Maybe their shorter interview would be different - I will have to check. Regardless, you still have to check every acb the autofill used and correct them. More than 1/2 of mine were wrong. One plus for Genutax, was that it allowed % owned for gains/losses. Studio Tax, if it has not been updated, only did that for T3/T5s.

I will use Autofill with Studio Tax for all slips. It saves a lot of typing.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Tostig said:


> Didn't CRA lock out 80,000 accounts due to suspected hacking?


It didn't appear that mine was affected. I was able to log in no problem. It was the downloading part that didn't seem to work.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I have run into problems with Studio Tax. This when doing linked returns for wife & myself. 

*First Issue:*
I used autofill for both of our returns. For T3s and T5s, ST has the option to choose % ownership but doesn't use it until it is transferred and entered in the other account. It allows you to transfer each entry to the spouses return.

In our case, we have two joint accounts and receive T3,5,5008s for both. When you transfer, for example T5(1), it overwrites the T5(1) in spouses return (which is there because it too was autofilled). Autofill apparently doesn't overwrite, so I could autofill my return, then transfer T5s to wife's return. Then autofill hers. Then, I may be able to copy her autofilled T5s to my return provided they were added in columns not used on my return.

I see nothing in their write ups on how to combine 

*Second Issue*
ST now allows you specify % ownership on T5008s. They can be autofilled on an individual return. But here there is no option to transfer to spouses return. So you are faced with manually entering all of the T5008 data,

For both of the above issues, Genutax handles the linked returns much better. But I still prefer the ability to jump around between different schedules and forms that Studio Tax has. 

Not sure which way to go now  If I stay with ST, I will have to do a lot more manual entries.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

agent99 said:


> I have run into problems with Studio Tax. This when doing linked returns for wife & myself.
> 
> *First Issue:*
> I used autofill for both of our returns. For T3s and T5s, ST has the option to choose % ownership but doesn't use it until it is transferred and entered in the other account. It allows you to transfer each entry to the spouses return.
> ...


You should submit feedback to StudioTax right away. If we're going to pay money for it now, it had better run without bugs and errors.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Tostig said:


> You should submit feedback to StudioTax right away. If we're going to pay money for it now, it had better run without bugs and errors.


I might do that. I will have to explain it better than I did above  (Comments sent to ST) I will still complete the returns on ST just to complete the comparison.

Right now, I am favouring Genutax when using autofill for a couple with linked returns. When I print a return to a pdf, it all looks correct. I learned things by using Genutax that I needed when using ST. For example, T5008 items that were coupons that matured in 2020. Even although on a T5008, they have to be shown to be investment income rather than capital gains entries. I tried the more simple interview option on Genutax and that helped a bit.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

For anyone with same requirements who may be interested:

I ended up first autofilling our individual returns. Then I added the spouses T5s & T5008s manually so I now had all slips from both joint accounts entered in both returns. Added the % allocation for each. Studio Tax has a T-slips Batch Edit under tools that makes t-slip entry much quicker. I did a screen print off each set of T5008s to make it easier to enter the numbers because there were quite a number last year.

Studio Tax did get back to me very quickly! This was their response to my question (below):

_There is no workaround for this type of scenario. You have to do it manually. The only thing about T5008 is that you do not need fill the T5008 on the spouse return. You can copy the T5008 result from your schedule 3 and enter that manually on one of schedule 3 of the spouse. Only line 13199 and 13200 are filed with the return.

StudioTax Support Team ([email protected])_

My email to StudioTax:

*Subject:* Using autofill with linked spousal returns

_I found a problem when attempting to use Autofill while entering our investment info into StudioTax._
_We have two joint accounts. One with me as primary and the other with my wife as primary.
I autofilled both returns. Then entered the % applicable in T5s (later T3s) and T5008.

When I use the copy to spouses account button for say T5(1) in my return, it overwrites the autofiled T5(1) in my wife's return. This is of course not good! 

The T5008 entries now require the full amount to be entered and a % allocated. Although transactions from each account can be autofilled, there is no way to share these without entering them manually._

_Please let me know if there is a workaround for this. _


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

I used Turbo Tax for 13 years and i am a satisfied user. Over the past year I changed my phone number and my email. I forgot to change my profile so I had problems logging in. I solved it by just starting a new account and everything worked great except for the payment I have to give the mother country called Eastern Canada. I tried ufile and just didn't like it so I quit early and went back to Turbo. As time passes usernames and passwords are becoming a pain. Still no complaint. Two returns cost $40.00 . In my pre-retirement days I recall paying accountants a $1000 to prepare our tax returns I believe my Turbo returns are more complete then the returns prepared by professionals. I am am also much more familiar with tax matters.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

T3's and T5013 showed up today on BMOIL and presumably also on CRA site. So, I can now complete returns!


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## balexis (Apr 4, 2009)

zinfit said:


> I used Turbo Tax for 13 years and i am a satisfied user. Over the past year I changed my phone number and my email. I forgot to change my profile so I had problems logging in. I solved it by just starting a new account and everything worked great except for the payment I have to give the mother country called Eastern Canada. I tried ufile and just didn't like it so I quit early and went back to Turbo. As time passes usernames and passwords are becoming a pain. Still no complaint. Two returns cost $40.00 . In my pre-retirement days I recall paying accountants a $1000 to prepare our tax returns I believe my Turbo returns are more complete then the returns prepared by professionals. I am am also much more familiar with tax matters.


Keeping an inactive/abandoned account at Turbo Tax is not a good idea. Imagine an attacker getting ahold of the old email address you no longer use, they are likely to be able to gain access to your old account and all the oh-so-sensitive information it contains.
I suggest you call TurboTax support to address this when you have a chance.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

agent99 said:


> ... I don't know if there are other programs like Studio Tax where you can actually pull up facsimiles of the actual paper return forms during input, just as they would appear if you mailed in your return. The others are like doing your taxes looking through a keyhole


I have nothing against those that want to do data entry on an exact replica of the paper forms. 

I just don't follow why clicking on the blank T3/T4/T5 slip or Schedule 3 or Schedule 7 that the carry forward process created for me and scrolling through the box numbers for data entry is like a keyhole?

AFAICT, direction is the only difference or for Schedule 3, dealing with one row at a time.


Cheers


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

agent99 said:


> Nothing to hide, but I would rather have my tax records on my own computer (and backup drive), rather than on Intuits or anyone else's servers. That and the $$ I otherwise had to pay for the CD version.
> 
> Before I retired, I used Turbotax (off-line) and it's predecessor. I gave up on it because it could not handle one part of my return after CRA made some changes (change in business year end)Same problem when I tried U-file.
> 
> ...


I have been storing my tax returns with Turbo Tax for years


balexis said:


> Keeping an inactive/abandoned account at Turbo Tax is not a good idea. Imagine an attacker getting ahold of the old email address you no longer use, they are likely to be able to gain access to your old account and all the oh-so-sensitive information it contains.
> I suggest you call TurboTax support to address this when you have a chance.


thank you


balexis said:


> Keeping an inactive/abandoned account at Turbo Tax is not a good idea. Imagine an attacker getting ahold of the old email address you no longer use, they are likely to be able to gain access to your old account and all the oh-so-sensitive information it contains.
> I suggest you call TurboTax support to address this when you have a chance.


On second thought not likely. A second tier of security to access the account is a code that is sent your telephone by text or your email.the code is needed. Since the email and the phone line no younger exist I think this is highly unlikely. They also need my password which is a complex password. Thanks just the same it is always good to backaches and to be sure


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> I have nothing against those that want to do data entry on an exact replica of the paper forms.
> 
> I just don't follow why clicking on the blank T3/T4/T5 slip or Schedule 3 or Schedule 7 that the carry forward process created for me and scrolling through the box numbers for data entry is like a keyhole?
> 
> ...


I don't understand just what you said. That last sentence doesn't make sense to me. 

I was comparing Genutax with StudioTax. Quite different approaches. Genutax interview driven. ST a hybrid between interview and direct input - more like having your paper return in front of you. ST much more flexible on input and review. Both will get your taxes done. I like both.

Carry on and write your own review if you have run your taxes side by side on both.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

I have submitted my return and now realize I over stated my income by about 20k. I duplicated a T4. I figure the best procedure is to wait for the notice of assessment them amend my return through my on line CRA account. As this also involved pension splitting I will have to amend my spouses return as well.? reliable advice would be appreciated.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

zinfit said:


> I have submitted my return and now realize I over stated my income by about 20k. I duplicated a T4. I figure the best procedure is to wait for the notice of assessment them amend my return through my on line CRA account. As this also involved pension splitting I will have to amend my spouses return as well.? reliable advice would be appreciated.


If qualifying income for pension splitting isn't the one that changes, i.e. you mentioned a T4 rather than a T4A, and your spouse is already taking the 50% maximum, then the pension income splitting amount on spouse's return should not change and there is no reason to change the spousal return.

Regardless, run both files again in Turbotax with the correct amount and see whether spouse's return changes from what was submitted.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... AFAICT, direction is the only difference or for Schedule 3, dealing with one row at a time.





agent99 said:


> I don't understand just what you said. That last sentence doesn't make sense to me ...


Take the T5 slip ... the PDF copy that matches the paper one that would have been mailed has boxes 24 through 26, from right to left in a single line.

Tax software that that reproduces the exact T5 form presumably has the same layout for entering the values. It's what I thought you were happy to pull up for data entry in ST.
My tax software on the carry forward creates the same number of blank T5 slips as last year, where box 24 is at the top each slip, box 25 beneath it and box 26 next below.

Same thing for Schedule 3, Part 3 where the tax form puts the columns left to right but my tax software has the same items top to bottom.

From my perspective - direction is the difference between using an exact replica slip input or an input screen.




agent99 said:


> ... I was comparing Genutax with StudioTax. Quite different approaches. Genutax interview driven. ST a hybrid between interview and direct input ..


Talking about "the others" read to me that it was broader than just a Genutax to ST comparison.

Cheers


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> If qualifying income for pension splitting isn't the one that changes, i.e. you mentioned a T4 rather than a T4A, and your spouse is already taking the 50% maximum, then the pension income splitting amount on spouse's return should not change and there is no reason to change the spousal return.
> 
> Regardless, run both files again in Turbotax with the correct amount and see whether spouse's return changes from what was submitted.


It was a RRIF that was duplicated . I had pension income including my RRIF in the region of 90k . I stated total pension income of 112k on my return. So it looks like both returns will be adjusted. Thanks for your comments.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

zinfit said:


> It was a RRIF that was duplicated . I had pension income including my RRIF in the region of 90k . I stated total pension income of 112k on my return. So it looks like both returns will be adjusted. Thanks for your comments.





zinfit said:


> It was a RRIF that was duplicated . I had pension income including my RRIF in the region of 90k . I stated total pension income of 112k on my return. So it looks like both returns will be adjusted. Thanks for your comments.


If I change my return with the reduced pension income and adjusted pension split and refile I assume that will automatically change my spouses return. I guess I can proceed on that basis and then check her return.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

UFile would automatically make the adjustment to reduce pension splitting amount down on spouse's return and I assume Turbo Tax does optimizations the same way. Then just ReFILE both.
ReFILE


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> UFile would automatically make the adjustment to reduce pension splitting amount down on spouse's return and I assume Turbo Tax does optimizations the same way. Then just ReFILE both.
> ReFILE


i can do that on my CRA account. I can just change the wrong entrees after I receive the notice of assessment and refile through their site.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

agent99 said:


> T3's and T5013 showed up today on BMOIL and presumably also on CRA site. So, I can now complete returns!


Unless more, or revised, T-slips show up, I think I am done! 

In the end, Genutax and StudioTax came up with same numbers (within 1c). Not surprising really because I used ST's optimization number in Genutax for the pension split (Genutax doesn't optimize). I let the programs decide who should claim donations and medical. 

There are plusses and minuses for both programs. I like fact that it is easy to go directly to T1 or schedules in ST while checking. Genutax handled the Autofill for a couple better. ST has a summary that includes both of our key numbers for past 3 years. Easy to see if anything is out of whack. 

I will file using Studio Tax. Continuity part of reason. Cost is really about same $15 for ST or equivalent donation to Genutax.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

For those of you switching between tax programs, what do you do about Form 936 - CNIL?

Shouldn't be a problem if you have always kept track of your investment expenses (line 15). 

Not sure exactly what they use this for, but it doesn't appear to affect current tax return. I don't recall Genutax even asking for that number. Studio Tax brought in the 2019 number.

This is what one site says :









T936: Calculation of Cumulative Net Investment Loss (CNIL)


The T936 form is used to calculate your cumulative net investment loss (CNIL) for the investment income or investment expenses you had this year. Your CNIL is how much more your investment expenses...




help.hrblockonline.ca




.

This is what CRA says: What is the capital gains deduction limit? - Canada.ca

Doesn't seem to apply to most of us. So why must we include it in return? I am sticking with Studio Tax and it has kept track of this over the years.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Is anyone still using Studio Tax?

I have found it very useful in the past. I even used it for a rather complex return and my accountant was impressed I was able to do it with this software. I like that it uses the actual tax form structure and isn't wizard-driven.

I think it now requires payment (and I'm happy to pay) but just wanted to ask if others are still using it this year.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Is anyone still using Studio Tax?
> 
> I have found it very useful in the past. I even used it for a rather complex return and my accountant was impressed I was able to do it with this software. I like that it uses the actual tax form structure and isn't wizard-driven.
> 
> I think it now requires payment (and I'm happy to pay) but just wanted to ask if others are still using it this year.


I just downloaded StudioTax 2021. However, I still say that CRA should issue one standardized downloadable version for everybody to use instead of the hundreds of different versions that are out there.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

CRA doesn't want to spend the investment dollars. They'd rather private companies jockey for the space spending their own money and just get it cleared/sanctioned by CRA. This is a good case of leveraging the private sector instead of taxpayer dollars NOT being used, even if it costs us $5-10/return or so to do it..

UFile cost me $16 after discounts and I do 3 returns. Not the least bit concerned about that.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Is anyone still using Studio Tax?
> 
> I have found it very useful in the past. I even used it for a rather complex return and my accountant was impressed I was able to do it with this software. I like that it uses the actual tax form structure and isn't wizard-driven.
> 
> I think it now requires payment (and I'm happy to pay) but just wanted to ask if others are still using it this year.


Yup, I will continue to use it even with the small cost now.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

I have used Turbo Tax since 2009. I have zero issues . I think it costs me something like 39.99. It might seem high but I recall paying around $1500 per year to have a CA file my returns. In this inflationary climate Turbo Tax might be one best deals out there.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Is anyone still using Studio Tax?
> 
> I have found it very useful in the past. I even used it for a rather complex return and my accountant was impressed I was able to do it with this software. I like that it uses the actual tax form structure and isn't wizard-driven.
> 
> I think it now requires payment (and I'm happy to pay) but just wanted to ask if others are still using it this year.


Yes, I use Studio Tax and don't mind paying $15 plus GST. I am glad that my data is on my computer instead of cloud with free programs where there could be a potential data breach in future.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I used to use TurboTax, but when Intuit moved their large support and development office out of Edmonton, I switched to UFile. Been using it for at least a decade.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

People tend to continue using what they are familiar with which is obviously no big deal one way or the other. They all get the job done. My only line in the sand about tax software is not to use the online Web versions where one's data is stored in some 3rd party server.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Studio Tax for me again this year. I've already sent them the $15.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

nobleea said:


> I used to use TurboTax, but when Intuit moved their large support and development office out of Edmonton, I switched to UFile. Been using it for at least a decade.


I tried Ufile last year and backed out and went back to Turbo Tax. I just had a feeling of more confidence in Turbo Tax.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> People tend to continue using what they are familiar with which is obviously no big deal one way or the other. They all get the job done. My only line in the sand about tax software is not to use the online Web versions where one's data is stored in some 3rd party server.


Te storage of data in the cloud is here to stay. I am not in a position to say if this is a major issue. At lot bigger entities then myself are using this type of service.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

This is not about storage of data in the cloud. Many of us store data or backup our computer data files in the cloud. I do it too.

I am talking about web based online tax returns that are prepared (data input), and calculated/completed on 3rd party servers like WealthSimple rather than through software apps on one's PC.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> I am talking about web based online tax returns that are prepared (data input), and calculated/completed on 3rd party servers like WealthSimple rather than through software apps on one's PC.


I agree. There's so much data theft and loss from businesses, I also wouldn't want my data stored on company servers.

Much safer to run a desktop version on your computer.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> I agree. There's so much data theft and loss from businesses, I also wouldn't want my data stored on company servers.
> 
> Much safer to run a desktop version on your computer.


Exactly. Having valiable info on a companies servers invites attacks. I'd much rather keep my tax info locally and stored offline.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

zinfit said:


> I have used Turbo Tax since 2009. I have zero issues . I think it costs me something like 39.99. It might seem high but I recall paying around $1500 per year to have a CA file my returns. In this inflationary climate Turbo Tax might be one best deals out there.


I've used at least four different company's tax software with zero issues.
LoL ... maybe that statement will mean a problem in this or next year!!

In my case, it's been UFile with the last couple of years being $15 or so.

It's a bargain IMO.


If you prefer TT feel free but I've never looked back from when they raised their prices.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

zinfit said:


> I tried Ufile last year and backed out and went back to Turbo Tax. I just had a feeling of more confidence in Turbo Tax.


Just curious ... what gave the additional confidence?
Form layout? Calls made to the call centre?

Use what you prefer but in my case, it's zero calls or problems with UFile going back to 2008 for sure but IIRC, 2004.


Cheers


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

Eclectic21 said:


> Just curious ... what gave the additional confidence?
> Form layout? Calls made to the call centre?
> 
> Use what you prefer but in my case, it's zero calls or problems with UFile going back to 2008 for sure but IIRC, 2004.
> ...


it was awhile ago. I figure TT was better for inputting data. I thought their guidance and review functions were solid and friendly. I just got the impression they were a more professional package. Probably more to with my personal bias then any substantive matter.Yes it costs 39 but that is a lot better then the 1000 plus I used to spend on tax accountants. At this level cost is not a factor for me.


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## BC Eddie (Feb 2, 2014)

I volunteer to do personal tax returns for our local charity. In order to do this you need to be vetted by the police and do the CRA training. You also need to download and use the package approved by the CRA. That package - Ufile.

But I do prefer the format of the old Simpletax (Now WealthSimple).


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gardner said:


> Studio Tax for me again this year. I've already sent them the $15.


Same here. The online payment was smooth and I just entered my activation code.

Currently playing around with Studio Tax today and working on my return. I really do like storing my data on my computer, and not using a "web" version.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

zinfit said:


> it was awhile ago. I figure TT was better for inputting data. I thought their guidance and review functions were solid and friendly. I just got the impression they were a more professional package. Probably more to with my personal bias then any substantive matter ...


Thanks ... I was wondering if it might be something to watch out for but it sounds unlikely to apply to me.




zinfit said:


> ... Yes it costs 39 but that is a lot better then the 1000 plus I used to spend on tax accountants. At this level cost is not a factor for me.


Sure ... though YMMV.

In my case, the one time I would have needed a tax accountant for filing a US return, the company provided it, as part of the package sending me to the US.

That makes my comparison expensive point the TT higher price.


Cheers


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