# Don't give up your airline seat



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I've heard this many times, especially from US airlines before boarding: "If you agree to give up your seat we'll give you a credit for $X hundred"

Don't fall for it!
Air Canada backtracks on compensation after passenger gives up seat on overcrowded flight



> An air passenger rights advocate says airlines renege on verbal promises, because the airline regulator isn't cracking down when passenger rights are violated, and proposed rules don't address compensation for people who voluntarily give up their seats.
> 
> "I generally recommend passengers not volunteer to give up their seats, because we hear too many cases like this one, where passengers have difficulty in getting compensation they were promised," says Gabor Lukacs, founder of Air Passenger Rights.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Good thing this guy is a business professor AND a lawyer. If AC still doesn't make good on its promise, he should sue and use his case as an example for this class. Win-win here.

Isn't AC supposed to issue his "voucher" (a paper one would be good) at the time he gave up his seat and not some day(s) later via an "email". That way, he would know right away it would be or not be an empty "promise". I would have expected a paper voucher (and no iphone bs) right there and then.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

This is why I avoid Air Canada. Poor customer service and reneging on promises. I’m happy to have a choice - it’s WestJet for me.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The media attacks Trump again.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Huh? Does Trump own shares of AC? 

Or is it that Trump attacking the media with his twats and twits - screaming FAKE NEWS!


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Isn't AC supposed to issue his "voucher" (a paper one would be good) at the time he gave up his seat and not some day(s) later via an "email". That way, he would know right away it would be or not be an empty "promise". I would have expected a paper voucher (and no iphone bs) right there and then.


In my experience once you volunteer they send you to customer service to exchange email and get a confirmation number for the monetary compensation and hotel/meal vouchers if the delay is overnight/meals.

I got a few $800 cash cheques last year from AC and spent the F1 weekend in Montreal on their dime. You want to insist you get cash and not a "voucher". I also negotiated to get upgraded to first class and therefore into the AC lounge.

It's a pretty good deal in my experience you just have to make sure they don't short change you during the agreement and that you get some kind of confirmation number. The cheque gets mailed to you a few weeks later.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> In my experience once you volunteer they send you to customer service to exchange email and get a confirmation number for the monetary compensation and hotel/meal vouchers if the delay is overnight/meals.


 ... okay, the key is getting that "confirmation #" for the compensation so when does that happen and does it have to be via an email? 



> I got a few $800 cash cheques last year from AC and spent the F1 weekend in Montreal on their dime. You want to insist you get cash and not a "voucher". I also negotiated to get upgraded to first class and therefore into the AC lounge.


 ... okay, getting "cash" or "cash cheques", I'm surprised AC would still issue "cheques" or the paper version kind of cheques. And that $800 "cash", can you spend on non-flight related stuff? I would be surprised AC would allow that. 

Re the benefit of using the AC lounge, I would guess for a frequent traveller or at least a business-class traveller, that membership should already have been built into the credit card used to purchase the flight.



> It's a pretty good deal in my experience you just have to make sure they don't short change you during the agreement and that you get some kind of confirmation number. The cheque gets mailed to you a few weeks later.


 ... okay, you answered the paper-cheque question above. But I'm surprised AC would issue and "mail" cheques (via CP I suppose) in this day and age.

I have been asked once to give up my seat for a $400 carrot dangle but no-do due to time constraint for business travel. But reading the CBC story above, I would even be less inclined for double that $$ without time constraints. Don't need that kind of hassle (aka suck-in).


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

The story obviously shakes the confidence in AC's denied boarding compensation procedures but I'd still consider it if the compensation was good enough and had the time to spare. 
At this point, I don't think mistakes in compensation like this is a common occurrence with AC but I'm open to being corrected on that. It says in the story that AC thought he flew on an earlier flight. I'm thinking someone entered that incorrect info and then AC was too lazy to follow up and confirm when he did fly. Instead, someone likely just followed a script to offer an increasing levels of compensation if the details around the complaint was potentially valid. 

The story does says in the end though that the guy got his $800 compensation and a 15% (whoopee) discount on a future flight but likely after a lot of wasted time chasing the issue. While I'm not sure if it would have helped in this case since there was bad information (that the passenger flew earlier), one of the key things to do is not rely on a verbal offer but get a denied boarding compensation card/form from *the gate agent* and any other vouchers you've negotiated (food, lounge, etc). The same article is being discussed on Flyertalk starting at post 92 and a sample of the denied boarding compensation card is shown in post 101.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

What I find amusing is the contention that he did it in order to allow a 'family to be able to be together'. In other words his motivation was altruistic and of course not about the 'money'. Really? 

Quote: "I wanted to do something nice and help a family get home that night. I thought, you know, I should step up and do this."

If that were really the case then giving up his seat without any expectation of compensation would have achieved that. So why complain when he didn't initially receive the compensation he expected? I call BS on his altruism. He did it for the MONEY.

The Flyertalk forum is full of threads on compensation. They all have one motive, to get money from the airline. Yet nearly all of them contend 'it's about the principle'. And sure enough there is a quote from the complainer saying, "It's not about the money, it's just the principle now," he says. "I just really want to see airlines like Air Canada do a better job of handling their passengers." Again I call BS, it's ALL about the MONEY.

This is just another example of how our culture has become more and more focused on trying to get compensation. Suppose the Gate Agents had announced in the departure lounge, 'we have a family trying to get home and one member of the family will not be able to fly on this flight as all seats are sold out. Would anyone be wiling to give up their seat to allow this family to go home together. We cannot offer any compensation for this but will get the volunteer on the next flight out.' How many people do you suppose would have stepped forward including the guy involved in this particular case? He said that was what he was thinking, would he have acted accordingly without an offer of compensation? I think not.

I firmly believe that 'the people get what the people deserve'. Understanding what they deserve though is not always something they want to face up to.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Well LTA, I call BS on your post. You are calling Mr. Tsai a lier in both intent and explanation. Based on?

I find it completely plausable that he saw the problem at the gate, had no compelling need to take that specific flight, and offered up his seat on that basis. He may well have expected some compensation as that is commonly offered. The issue arose when AC told him (showed him at the gate) one thing and later offered him something quite different. 

AC is an abysmal company with regard to customer service. Of all people, you, a so-called "professional" salesman, should appreciate that.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> What I find amusing is the contention that he did it in order to allow a 'family to be able to be together'. In other words his motivation was altruistic and of course not about the 'money'. Really?
> 
> Quote: "I wanted to do something nice and help a family get home that night. I thought, you know, I should step up and do this."
> 
> ...


Probably combination of money+altruism. I think all of the above enters into the decision-making criteria.

Keep in mind, airlines deliberately overbook flights to ensure that the inevitable no-shows don't result in empty seats. It's not perfect, so part of the business model is to compensate passengers who are prevented from flying as planned as a result of too many people showing up for the flight. Airlines have to do this to have a hope of making money. It's a fine system, but don't pretend that the airline should be able to squelch on the contract they entered into when they asked for volunteers to give up their seats.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

“Keep in mind, airlines deliberately overbook flights to ensure that the inevitable no-shows don't result in empty seats. It's not perfect, so part of the business model is to compensate passengers who are prevented from flying as planned as a result of too many people showing up for the flight. Airlines have to do this to have a hope of making money. It's a fine system, but don't pretend that the airline should be able to squelch on the contract they entered into when they asked for volunteers to give up their seats.”
Wrong. WestJet does not overbook.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

This flight was apparently overbooked due to "operational reasons" which is common to all airlines. I've worked in aviation and Westjet is not immune to operational reasons and they also bump people from flights. This can be anything from weather, mechanical, crew issues etc.

The alternative to not overbooking flights is to hold passengers accountable for missing their flights. That means if you have a flat tire or explosive diarrhea whatever lame excuse people seem to often come up with that causes you to miss boarding, you don't get bumped to the next flight for free.

Westjet passengers also miss flights and get bumped for free to the next one which also "overbooks" flights. Westjet deals with it same way by asking for volunteers or bumping the last person without frequent flyer status. Westjet can't claim they don't overbook flights unless they don't give the no-shows a free pass


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

m3s said:


> This flight was apparently overbooked due to "operational reasons" which is common to all airlines. I've worked in aviation and Westjet is not immune to operational reasons and they also bump people from flights. This can be anything from weather, mechanical, crew issues etc.
> 
> The alternative to not overbooking flights is to hold passengers accountable for missing their flights. That means if you have a flat tire or explosive diarrhea whatever lame excuse people seem to often come up with that causes you to miss boarding, you don't get bumped to the next flight for free.
> 
> Westjet passengers also miss flights and get bumped for free to the next one which also "overbooks" flights. Westjet deals with it same way by asking for volunteers or bumping the last person without frequent flyer status. Westjet can't claim they don't overbook flights unless they don't give the no-shows a free pass


I agree that WestJet can have “operational issues” which can result in overbooking. This has happened a few times to friends and family and WestJet has been very accommodating. This is contrary to the experiences of those who were in similar situations with Air Canada. This particular Air Canada situation is appalling and reinforces my views to avoid Air Canada whenever possible.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Well LTA, I call BS on your post. You are calling Mr. Tsai a lier in both intent and explanation. Based on?
> 
> I find it completely plausable that he saw the problem at the gate, had no compelling need to take that specific flight, and offered up his seat on that basis. He may well have expected some compensation as that is commonly offered. The issue arose when AC told him (showed him at the gate) one thing and later offered him something quite different.
> 
> AC is an abysmal company with regard to customer service. Of all people, you, a so-called "professional" salesman, should appreciate that.


LOL, that Air Canada acted badly has nothing whatsoever to do with the motivation of the complainer OnlyMyOpinion. They are two separate things. Whenever someone says, 't's not about the money, it's the principle of the thing', you can bet it is ALL about the money.

I am not defending Air Canada's actions in any way, I'm just calling BS on the complainer's comments.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Numbersman61 said:


> I agree that WestJet can have “operational issues” which can result in overbooking. This has happened a few times to friends and family and WestJet has been very accommodating. This is contrary to the experiences of those who were in similar situations with Air Canada. This particular Air Canada situation is appalling and reinforces my views to avoid Air Canada whenever possible.


WestJet being smaller and younger has always had the better reputation. They were a model business in my early 2000's text books. As WestJet grew from 3 jets in Alberta to international airline half the size of Air Canada it is generally known that less and less separates them from others, and meanwhile Air Canada adapted during the same time to be more like WestJet etc. WestJet had its first labour dispute last year



> Already, the reason some passengers will only fly with one particular airline is much more about collecting points than believing one carrier provides a particularly better experience.


WestJet and Air Canada: How little separates the airlines anymore

I have frequent flyer status with Air Canada because Westjet doesn't go to as many of the places I need to. The guy in the article agreed to $400 and then complained to national news he didn't get $800. If he called and pointed out the error that he didn't get an earlier flight he could have gotten the $400 he agreed to, but he decided to go to national news to get the $800 because Canadians love this kind of drama news


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> ... The guy in the article agreed to $400 and then complained to national news he didn't get $800. If he called and pointed out the error that he didn't get an earlier flight he could have gotten the $400 he agreed to, but he decided to go to national news to get the $800 because Canadians love this kind of drama news


What are you smoking today? 
The article James linked in post#1 says: _Tsai says an agent initially told him he'd get a $600 voucher in exchange for taking a later flight, to which he agreed. As he boarded his rescheduled flight six hours later, he says a gate agent turned her screen to show his file, pointing out a note saying that he would be compensated with an $800 voucher. The next day, instead of the voucher, Tsai got an email from Air Canada offering the 15 per cent discount on a future flight. He wrote back to the airline, pointing out that the deal was for an $800 voucher, and that's what he expected to receive. Air Canada replied, acknowledging that Tsai had indeed been offered an $800 voucher, but claiming he had been "moved to an earlier flight," so the 15 per cent discount stood. Tsai denies he was moved to an earlier flight, and provided his boarding passes, which showed his new flight was scheduled to depart more than six hours later than his original departure time._


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

So he agreed to a $600 voucher (which is different than a $600 cheque.. always hold out for the $800 cheque)

Then he was later "shown a screen with $800" which he equated to a "binding contract" (after he agreed to only $600.. always get a written confirmation of such promises)

Now he demands $800 when he originally agreed to $600 and claims that seeing a screen was a binding verbal contract.

I think the moral here is to always get such agreements in writing. It will save you a lot of time vs playing he said she said


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

This: _Air Canada replied, acknowledging that Tsai had indeed been offered an $800 voucher_

Smoke this while you're still high: App Analysis: Air Canada


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

WestJet was hacked in 2017, that we know of. Verticalscope (CMF) has been hacked a few times, that we know of. Everything is embedded with Chinese spyware. What else is new?

I don't know how the conversation went between Tsai and AC other than his side of the story. I do know people often get the $800 from AC without going to CBC

If he kept the written confirmation card they typically instruct you to hold on to in case of complications, this would be a non-story


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