# Bad or Dumb Ways to Save Money



## dogcom

What are some bad or dumb ways to save money?

Not buying car insurance I would consider to be dumb.

Is it better to pay more for certain electronic like iPhones, TV's or tablets then just paying the least amount of money.

I think if they offer you a good enough deal on a product warranty it would be a good idea. As we know usually an extended warranty is a bad idea.

I think it is better to put the more costly blue drywall in areas not necessarily the kitchen or bathroom where moisture is possible then save and buy the regular kind. 

Is it better to pay more for longer lasting roofing shingles then just get the cheapest kind. Assuming we are to live in the house over the long term.

How about professionals should we save here or pay more for someone else whether it be the home or the car.

How about appliances or water heaters? On the new 100 percent efficient furnaces I heard they were crap and one is better of keeping your old furnace then looking for efficiencies here. Also I heard the on demand water heaters while they save a lot on nat gas are very expensive to maintain let alone the higher price that you pay for it.


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## brad

I knew a guy who would obsessively drive all around town looking for the cheapest gasoline. He wasted a lot more money on gasoline by driving around looking for a better price than he saved by filling up with the cheaper gas, especially because a few times his tank ran dry while he was driving around looking for the best price and he had to get towed.


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## Janus

I think it's dumb to forgo living life while young in the name of saving money. Avoiding a social life and living in a basement just to have some extra capital seems like the thing one would regret. I'd rather enjoy life and save my money on bigger ticket items like not owning a car.


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## CPA Candidate

The focus of purchases should be on value, not lowest cost. I have often found buying the cheapest solution often means going back to buy another item when the first fails.


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## dogcom

Thanks for some of the dumb ideas here Ha Ha. The gas one is a good one and I know people who also do this. 

Your right CPA it would be great for others here if we know of products that cost us more but save us much in the long run. It is hard to know what is value and what is not.

Look at new vehicle costs today they are beyond to much to ridiculous. I hear it is because of americans coming up and buying vehicles.


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## sags

My dad advised me to always buy good quality furniture when I started out.

He always bought cheap stuff and had to keep replacing it. His sister bought solid wood dining tables etc...........and still has them 50 years later.

Solid wood furniture cost a fortune these days, but you can get some if you think outside the box.

A neighbour had an vintage bedroom dresser in mint condition, solid cherry wood, 9 drawers and heavy as a truck. Nobody else wanted it when she went to the nursing home so I took it for free. 

It has made a beautiful extra dining room buffet. All that storage and a low profile with a long top to put stuff on.

Just saying...............solid wood is better. Everything seems to come in a box these days.


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## OptsyEagle

Janus said:


> I think it's dumb to forgo living life while young in the name of saving money. Avoiding a social life and living in a basement just to have some extra capital seems like the thing one would regret. I'd rather enjoy life and save my money on bigger ticket items like not owning a car.


I suspect most of those things that one spends money on today will be a big regret when they become a very distant memory and have left you indebted and broke.

Just my opinion of course.


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## Moneytoo

My personal dumbest way to save money is to "spend more to save more". 

For example, I usually buy clothes online. So I like this jacket that costs $100, but decide to wait 'till it goes on sale. A few weeks later there're only a few left and are selling @ 50% discount. And, luckily, my size is still available. But, just as I sign in to buy it, I see a promo code - "save additional $40 for the next 24 hrs!" And of course the offer applies only to purchases of more than $200. So I spend a few hours trying to find a few more things that I don't need so I can save 40 bucks... And I'm actually good at math! :hopelessness:


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## dogcom

I agree with this I tell the wife make sure whatever you need to buy at Shoppers Drug Mart is a good deal and on sale no matter if you can make lots of points.

Sags my parents have an old furniture set sold wood and yes it is ageless. Of course it is very heavy to move.


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## lonewolf

Not buying winter tires in winter

Removing power steering & power brakes to increase gas milage


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## sags

dogcom said:


> I agree with this I tell the wife make sure whatever you need to buy at Shoppers Drug Mart is a good deal and on sale no matter if you can make lots of points.
> 
> Sags my parents have an old furniture set sold wood and yes it is ageless. Of course it is very heavy to move.


I waited until the movers came to clear out her place, and paid them $50 cash to move it across the parking lot from her place to ours.

Best $50 I ever spent...........


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## Eclectic12

dogcom said:


> What are some bad or dumb ways to save money?
> Not buying car insurance I would consider to be dumb...


In a lot of places, skipping car insurance is illegal ... so yes, it's dumb.


Cheers


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## lonewolf

Buying clutter just because it is on sale.


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## andrewf

Not keeping vehicles in a good state of repair. Oil changes, tires, brakes, etc.


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## NorthKC

Driving all over town just because one grocery store carries a cheaper product is dumb. Talk about a waste of gas. It's even dumber when shoppers don't know that they can actually price match at their favourite grocery stores by showing them the flyers of other stores.

Dumb for only paying minimum payment on their credit card, barring any legitimate reasons, of course such as paying medical costs out of pocket.

Dumb for agreeing to those insurance payments on their credit card by saying that they can help pay minimum payment during job loss. What the people don't read is that if they collect EI, this insurance won't pay the amount on credit card.


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## Just a Guy

Buying lower quality food, fast food, etc. There are studies out there showing the poor development in children from bad diets. Even when I was dead broke and in debt up to my ears, I didn't skimp on the quality of food. My kids are all well developed and healthy. Half of them have never had penicillin in their lives, the others only once or twice, something the doctor even commented on as being highly unusual. 

Now, we're not health food nuts or anything like that, we eat junk food too, but we're definitely food snobs. Miss vicky's chips are different from no name brands (and not that bad on price if you wait until they're on sale). I may not buy everything at regular price, but I won't skimp on quality. Good time to stock up on turkeys for example.


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## My Own Advisor

NorthKC said:


> Driving all over town just because one grocery store carries a cheaper product is dumb. Talk about a waste of gas.


+1

We usually look at the flyers, go to the one or two stores with deals and price match.


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## Ag Driver

Deleted.


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## donald

Home reno's diy
Case in point:had a friend do(more like attempt)recently his own roof
Had to spend a few weekends ripping up half his chimney and valleys because it was leaking like a sieve(mold forming)
Not to mention his shingles were crooked beyond believe and he had exposed nails all over the place(looked like ****)
Bought a 600k home(asset)and because he didn't want to spend 12k he thought it was wise to do it himself
nearly a 3rd of my service/repair work is diy homeowners who are trying to be mike Homes or they go and google 'roofing' and think it i easy and half way into the project they cry uncle and spend double the amt repairing .


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## Eder

I just spent almost $700 US going to Costco to pick up 2 flats of water and a package of rib eyes. That was dumb.


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## sags

donald said:


> Home reno's diy
> Case in point:had a friend do(more like attempt)recently his own roof
> Had to spend a few weekends ripping up half his chimney and valleys because it was leaking like a sieve(mold forming)
> Not to mention his shingles were crooked beyond believe and he had exposed nails all over the place(looked like ****)
> Bought a 600k home(asset)and because he didn't want to spend 12k he thought it was wise to do it himself
> nearly a 3rd of my service/repair work is diy homeowners who are trying to be mike Homes or they go and google 'roofing' and think it i easy and half way into the project they cry uncle and spend double the amt repairing .


Yea, that is a big one due to the cost. It isn't like spending a hundred bucks on something useless. Bad home renovations can cost tens of thousands to fix or drop the value of the home.

It can also be unsafe when they get into electrical wiring etc.


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## Ag Driver

Deleted


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## dogcom

I am glad to hear from donald I am sure he has heard of many dumb ways to save money.

For me when I moved into a new house, making sure the roof was sound was the first priority and then hiring a good roofer to re-roof. Also making sure water is not an issue anywhere in the home is important. 

Northkc for sure the credit card insurance is a dumb one. Also saving money buying TV's or whatever and then not being able to pay off the credit cards for a long time paying big interest.


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## Eder

Ag Driver said:


> I also agree. Paying for bottled water is dumb and another waste of money IMO.


If you've tasted Vegas water you might change your mind lol.


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## carverman

sags said:


> M
> 
> 
> Just saying...............solid wood is better. Everything seems to come in a box these days.


Solid wood furniture like Gibbards in Napanee used to make, or Knectels in Hanover is hard to find, as these factories are no longer in business .
Good walnut, red cherry or red oak is a high premium these days. The mature good furniture producing trees that were plentiful 70 years ago have been cut down.
It takes over a hundred years to get a hardwood tree to grown in our climate. 
Pretty much all the furniture these days is particle core wood veneer for reasons of economy and only on the top that shows, or even a plastic finish on a photo-grain. 

But you can still find solid wood bedroom or dining sets with hutch and side board,at the antique furniture dealers, sometimes situated alongside the flea markets, 
but even these are getting scarce. The furnitures sets are very heavy to move, and the styles are not in with modern living, but they will outlast the owners
several times over. Some people just go to Ikea and get the knockdown furniture that they can assemble themselves..Cheap to buy and they don't care how
long it lasts as long as the furniture lasts enough for them to use.


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## Davis

Buying more or differently in order to get points. Unless you know the dollar value of the points and know that you will be able to redeem them in a reasonable time, points can be a distraction from getting the best value. I have rarely redeemed my Air Miles and Aeroplan points, so I have been careful not to let them sway my decision-making.


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## dogcom

When you look at all the sales through the year that the asians flock to buying every deal they can get their hands on you wonder what happens to it. If you go in their houses there is little clutter so where does it all go. Are they just buying stuff cause it is a good deal whether they need it or not.

Another one is when you are in the grocery store and the customer in front of you is complaining about something even getting the manager over 25 cents or something. I remember being in line one day and handing the 25 cents to the complainer and then telling them to get lost. To me these small savings are stupid and instead of wasting time I just tell the clerk to take it back if I don't want to pay the little extra.


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## wendi1

Poor quality "fashion" clothes that become out of fashion even before they wear out. Cheap bras (I know some of you don't have this requirement).

Especially poor quality shoes - I never stint on good leather shoes and high quality boots. The money you save on cheap shoes goes towards physio.

Cheap sheets, pillows and bedding - the good quality ones last longer and are more comfortable.

Snow tires - they are safety equipment, so we always buy good quality.


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## protomok

Switching to LED bulbs but not using the $5 off (per individual bulb!) coupons (https://saveonenergy.ca/Consumer/Programs/Instant-Rebates/Printable-COUPONS.aspx). I didn't even know about these coupons until recently


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## NorthKC

protomok said:


> Switching to LED bulbs but not using the $5 off (per individual bulb!) coupons (https://saveonenergy.ca/Consumer/Programs/Instant-Rebates/Printable-COUPONS.aspx). I didn't even know about these coupons until recently


Wow! I didn't even know about this either. Thanks for sharing!


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## cainvest

protomok said:


> Switching to LED bulbs but not using the $5 off (per individual bulb!) coupons (https://saveonenergy.ca/Consumer/Programs/Instant-Rebates/Printable-COUPONS.aspx). I didn't even know about these coupons until recently


Don't know if LEDs are a money saver due to their high cost right now, they save very little electricity vs CFLs which are much lower cost.


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## protomok

I should clarify that the coupon for Energy Star LED bulbs is only valid in Ontario (not sure if other provinces do this?). Also the coupon is per item...so 5 individually wrapped LEDs = $5 x 5 discount, but a pack of 5 LED bulbs = $5 x 1 discount.

@cainvest - We're just replacing our incandescent bulbs and keeping our CFLs for now. Once the CFLs die we'll switch those to LEDs. But point taken...switching a house full of CFLs to LEDs doesn't make much financial sense. Although I know some folks who are uncomfortable with mercury in CFLs which prompted them to switch to LED.


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## mcoursd2006

dogcom said:


> When you look at all the sales through the year that the asians flock to buying every deal they can get their hands on you wonder what happens to it. If you go in their houses there is little clutter so where does it all go. Are they just buying stuff cause it is a good deal whether they need it or not.


Wait, what?? That's the most bigoted comment I've seen on these boards in long time. What does this have to do with the OP? 

Is it 2015 or 1915?


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## dogcom

Really this is one of the most bigoted thing you have ever seen on these boards. It sounds bigoted and probably is, but it is a true observation. Of course I can't lump every asian in this, but obviously you have never been to a sale in Richmond bc before. I also have mostly asian friends and they make the same comments or observations. You also probably don't know that coastal asians like Hong Kong don't like mainland Chinese people and say not very nice things about them.


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## mcoursd2006

No, saying it in front of you Asian friends is fine because they are your friends. Saying it on a public forum makes you sound like an ignorant, racist DB.

BTW, what Asians say about other Asians is one thing, but unless you are one yourself, it ain't all right for you to do it. Kinda like blacks calling other blacks the N-word.


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## dogcom

Sounds like you are a little over sensitive to me. You must win awards in being politically correct. Taking it to the N-word is just ridiculous.


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## mcoursd2006

I'll revise my initial post and say that it just makes you sound ignorant. And if using unoffensive language is deemed politically correctness, then fine, that's what it is.

Do you not think that some Asians would find your comment about sales and hoarding offensive? I'm just calling you out.


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## dogcom

Some probably would, but I think it is Ok for people to say stuff and if people don't like it they can debate it. For example if an asian person said it seems only white people flock to buy the top of the line snow gear and pay way to much for it. I wouldn't be offended by that and it is their right to say it. I may debate the point or something if I felt that I should for some reason.


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## Moneytoo

Looks like this thread is on its way to the Hot Button dungeon, but googled out of curiosity "asian hoarders" and found this:

*Stuff Asian People Like: #28 Hoarding*
_Written By Asians, About Asians_.

Will ask my young Asian cubicle neighbour who lives with her parents if it's true, as we usually talk about travel and Buddhism and cultural differences and she loves making fun of my stereotypical Russian traits lol


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## donald

+1 dog
I can't stand everyone getting bent out of shape!can't stand the way society is(generation of cry babies)
I happened to be half italian(have dark complexion etc)
My buddies call me a *** all the time(i don't care)
What the hell is wrong with people
Mcoursd-grow a set!


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## mcoursd2006

donald said:


> +1 dog
> I can't stand everyone getting bent out of shape!can't stand the way society is(generation of cry babies)
> I happened to be half italian(have dark complexion etc)
> My buddies call me a *** all the time(i don't care)
> What the hell is wrong with people
> Mcoursd-grow a set!


Hardly, dude. Calling each other names when you're close friends is one thing. Oh wait, I wrote that on an earlier post already, but I guess you missed it. But doing it on a public forum is completely different. And in your case, it makes you sound like an ignorant schmuck as well.

Your friends call you a derogatory ethnic epithet does not mean that it's racism. You've obviously never been on the receiving end of real discrimination and prejudice because of your half-Italian blood. 

Perhaps you're the one who needs to grow a pair.


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## fraser

We buy non commodity items on value. We buy household and personal care consumables on price-and most often at Costco. Plus lots of other things.

I was in school when we got married. Everything was second hand or hand me down furniture. Our first real furniture purchase came a number of years later. It was a bedroom set. American Drew solid cherry wood. We still have it thirty five years later and it still looks like new. Looking back, that purchase was a bargain. We have done the same with all of our larger ticket furniture items..

Gave our son our 1997 Camry last year. Only has 325K on it and runs like a top. It was the last new car we have purchased. The next one was a four year old, low mileage, top of the line import. Took three months to find the right product but the price was just about half that of a new one.

We never, ever buy extended warranties.


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## none

Eder said:


> and a package of rib eyes. That was dumb.



Dry age those bad boys!


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## jj12345

mcoursd2006 said:


> Hardly, dude. Calling each other names when you're close friends is one thing. Oh wait, I wrote that on an earlier post already, but I guess you missed it. But doing it on a public forum is completely different. And in your case, it makes you sound like an ignorant schmuck as well.
> 
> Your friends call you a derogatory ethnic epithet does not mean that it's racism. You've obviously never been on the receiving end of real discrimination and prejudice because of your half-Italian blood.
> 
> Perhaps you're the one who needs to grow a pair.


Not to continue this flare up, but I am personally getting really tired of the PC, woe-is-me, I'm-a-victim crowd. Nothing hateful was said. Mcoursd2006, you need to be a little less sensitive and grow up already.


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## Joe Black

jj12345 said:


> Not to continue this flare up, but I am personally getting really tired of the PC, woe-is-me, I'm-a-victim crowd. Nothing hateful was said. Mcoursd2006, you need to be a little less sensitive and grow up already.


Well, since you DID continue this flare up, I'm with mcoursd2006 on this. Making a broad-sweeping generalization about an entire race is right-on-the-nose, textbook racism, which doesn't require an extreme PC stance to recognize. I.e., It's not like overly-PC rules such as no Chirstmas trees in a public space.

As a white Anglo-Saxon male, I'm not claiming victim status here. I'm just saying it is what it is.


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## dogcom

Of course I agree with donald and jj12345 as nothing hateful was said. 

Joe Black we are all racists in some small ways and we are liars if we say we are not. I can tell you that racism is much greater amongst other races then whites it is just whites are the ones labeled with this like muslims are with terrorism. I can tell you if any non white makes a general comment like I did at white people nothing would be said about it because white people are seen to have thick skin and are supposed to take it.

Fraser you seem like someone who gets quality and makes the absolute most with it. Spend the money once and done and getting a good deal is a good money saver. I have a friend who is good at buying stuff for a good deal using it and getting back more then he pays for it on e-bay or something like that.


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## fraser

Shopping is not a leisure activity for me. I do not like it. I am lazy and want to go to the horrible mall as few times as possible. So I buy my deodorant in five packs from Costco when they have a dollars off sale. I get five for what about what two would cost me elsewhere. And in shopping terms, it reduces my activity for that item by 4/5. Same for toothpast...the lot in fact.

So when I buy I buy in bulk or I buy something of good quality that will last. Spouse is a little different. She likes to look. Not me. If I am not going to buy, I won't look. And I don't look if I don't need it. Nothing to do with being frugal...probably sheer laziness. More power to her...she goes alone and it probably happier without me looking at my watch asking her if she is ready to go home.

I buy my shorts and summer shirts in the fall...when I am thinking about what I need for our winter trip. I buy my winter shirts in the spring when we return.

I now buy as much as possible on the web. Not just because of price and selection but because it saves time-much less time going aimlessly around the malls hoping to find a clerk who knows something about the product I want to buy or better yet someone to actually ring it up on the cash.


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## dogcom

Saving time, money and travel even smarter.

I like this short you tube video of shaming shoppers waiting in line at Best Buy. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMR54Df2x2M


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## donald

I am not a ignorant schmuck Mcoursd(I disagree with you and more importantly felt the need to stick up for Dog)
You misinterpreted Dogcom(if anything actually he might of been complimenting Asians for being money smart perhaps?)

It's a public forum you shouldn't be shocked if people don't see a issue the same way as you.
I have seen Dog post many times over the years and he comes across online as a solid/fair person and he is one who is also Kind(imagine that)

I am a gen x grow up pre Pc movement and feminized culture
Personally I am sick of how one in society can barely say fu%k all anymore just in case they insult someone(it's like walking around land mines all day)
This bullshit of P.C creates a society where everyone consumed and nervous just in case someone views their comments as racism or whatever!
It's bullshit!

We all have 'minority' issues if you think about it(shape/color/sex/orientation/ethnicities/social class ect..........could create a list a mile long!
Why go along in life looking to get 'offended'?it's bullshit

I have zero against you was stating how I feel(suspect I am not alone)
anyways happy new year to all!


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## donald

Ps:i have a so called 'learning' disability (reading/writing)so I have been discriminated against(ie: public school system)has zero to do with my Iq
if we are being personal.


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## dogcom

Thanks for the good words donald. I also have problems with the reading and writing as people can probably notice here. However one of the reasons I am on the forum is to get better at it and to handle situations like we had here, as it helps me learn more about myself. Of course doing better financially is the main goal.


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## ykphil

Asians LOL...my wife is "Asian". So is our neighbour from Delhi, and my colleague from Beijing, and my buddy from Ulan Bator...


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## peterk

Not putting any effort, thought, or money into your wardrobe/haircut/appearance is a bad way to save money. Mostly the excuses "buying fancy clothes is a waste of money" or "I don't care what people think of me" are used... The real reason for looking like crap is that they're lazy, afraid to admit they have no style and need help, or afraid of people talking negatively about any "change" they might make to their appearance. Spending many hundreds of dollars or even a couple thousand per year on your clothes and appearance is definitely not a waste of money. 



ykphil said:


> Asians LOL...my wife is "Asian". So is our neighbour from Delhi, and my colleague from Beijing, and my buddy from Ulan Bator...


Yeah but, if he had said "Orientals" then mcoursd's mind probably would've probably exploded in some sort of PC meltdown... :biggrin:


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## donald

I don't know about that Peter(lazy/afraid)
I know a lot guys(mostly my married friends)
that really don't care a whole hell of a lot
Not that they are dressed like bums but lets just say maybe they get 3 pairs of jeans and some shirts from Costco or some other 'warehouse' outlet(kill 2 birds with one stone)
though maybe a guy does look like crap in Kirkland jeans or whatever is another story lol

I really believe most men don't care that much(personal leisure clothes)?
a lot of men shop for simply/quick 'good' enough
As a man I focus more on being in shape/clean and well groomed over high priced fashion
shopping for high end clothes is a damn chore(customizing/multiple trips to a changing room etc-kill me-rather scratch my eyes out lol)


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## Just a Guy

When I first started out, I needed to wear a suit every day...hated it. I made money, and started my own business partially to avoid having to wear such clothes ever again. Of course, I still have a couple of suits (for weddings and funerals primarily). I much prefer comfortable clothes, and I haven't seen it have any influence in my lifestyle or success.

People seem to respect me for my knowledge and what I bring to the company, not for the fancy packaging.


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## peterk

I don't mean fancy and/or expensive clothes are a requisite. I meant that effort to identify and cultivate a style that maximizes your appearance to the people that influence your life is not to be neglected. This takes effort, thought and some money to achieve. This may not involve suits and high-end brands, perhaps just jeans and t-shirts, but it has to be the right jeans and t-shirt, of which 99% are not for any particular person.

Often the excuse "buying fancy clothes is a waste of money" is used by those who won't admit the effort and discomfort it might take to improve their appearance. Instead settling to wear crappy looking jeans and running shoes, 5 year old t-shirts and dress shirts that are way too large and never looked good in the first place.

Hence I think cheaping out on your appearance (with both money and effort) is a "bad or dumb way to save money".

This coming from a guy who was very poorly dressed by his mom until much too old an age, and even after that continued for many years to neglect my style and appearance, thinking "I don't care what people think" "waste of money". In hindsight this was a poor choice.


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## Just a Guy

What exactly are "the benefits"? 

It's foolish to judge people on how they look...the same as it's foolish to buy products based on their packaging. The "nice packaging" often has nothing to do with the quality of the contents...I see this a lot in real estate too, many people do superficial repairs, looks nice, building falling down...maybe it's why I've been successful, I look beneath, find the quality.

I not a fan of "lipstick on a pig".


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## Siwash

Janus said:


> I think it's dumb to forgo living life while young in the name of saving money. Avoiding a social life and living in a basement just to have some extra capital seems like the thing one would regret. I'd rather enjoy life and save my money on bigger ticket items like not owning a car.


Or buying a solid used car... that's the best way to save on big ticket... why people spend 40K on a new car is beyond me... i'm talking about middle income earners.


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## Eclectic12

dogcom said:


> Of course I agree with donald and jj12345 as nothing hateful was said.


This is relevant and can be discussed.




dogcom said:


> I can tell you that racism is much greater amongst other races then whites it is just whites are the ones labeled with this like muslims are with terrorism.


So?

The Ukrainian who was told to take the farming job instead of applying to the office job "because Toronto Hydro won't hire you" should console themselves that "other races are more racist & have it tougher"?

Or the engineering student that the prof called in to say "you are wasting your money training for engineering ... no Canadian engineering firm will hire your ethnicity"?

Or the woman told by her uncle "your fiance is from a different ethnicity ... if you insist on marrying him - I will kill you"?


It does not seem much consolation to me.




dogcom said:


> Fraser you seem like someone who gets quality and makes the absolute most with it. Spend the money once and done and getting a good deal is a good money saver. I have a friend who is good at buying stuff for a good deal using it and getting back more then he pays for it on e-bay or something like that.


That's were both spouses being on the same page as well as having storage capacity can help. 


Cheers


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## Rusty O'Toole

The Ukrainian who was told to take the farming job instead of applying to the office job "because Toronto Hydro won't hire you" should console themselves that "other races are more racist & have it tougher"?

Or the engineering student that the prof called in to say "you are wasting your money training for engineering ... no Canadian engineering firm will hire your ethnicity"?

Or the woman told by her uncle "your fiance is from a different ethnicity ... if you insist on marrying him - I will kill yo



Those would be terrible if they were true. But in fact there are plenty of Ukrainians working for Toronto Hydro in office jobs and plenty of engineers of all ethnicities. I don't believe either of those conversations unless you mean 50 to 100 years ago.

The one about being killed for marrying an outsider, that one I can believe because I have seen it in the newspapers but it's not white Canadians who are responsible.


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## Eclectic12

Rusty O'Toole said:


> ... Those would be terrible if they were true ...
> I don't believe either of those conversations unless you mean 50 to 100 years ago.


There's no "if" ... and yes it was a long time ago.




Rusty O'Toole said:


> ... The one about being killed for marrying an outsider, that one I can believe because I have seen it in the newspapers but it's not white Canadians who are responsible.


All parties where white ... I've either met or seen pictures of all the direct parties. My mother's uncle said it to my mother and *meant* it. Fortunately for her, her father was of a different mind so her response that "if you kill me, my father will kill you" put an end to this.

That side of the family boycotted the wedding and refused contact for a long time after.


Regardless of when ... my point is where one is directly impacted - I doubt one cares if a different group is "worse".


If you prefer a more recent incident, when applying for a rental in late 90's, a bunch of white kids ran by the office. The super was quick to say "all the kids in the building were born in the building". In other words, families with kids applying for a rental were being told there was nothing available or someone else had beat them to it.


Cheers


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## Just a Guy

So, you admit things have changed, yet you still brush people with the same stroke...isn't that...racist?


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## dogcom

Eclectic crap happens all the time to everyone at some point in time and still nothing hateful was said here. 

If you want to pick the nicest people, I would say Japanese people are at the top of my list. Yet during the war they were sent to camps up north and crap was done to them.

When it comes to clothing peterk got me on that because I am lazy when it comes to shopping for clothes. I spend very little on clothing through the year and the most expensive item is shoes. It is not a good idea to cheap out on shoes because that is the lowest point on your body and you can hurt your knees, back and everything starting from the feet.


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## Rusty O'Toole

"if you kill me, my father will kill you" put an end to this.
Yeah that rings a bell. Honor killing. Get a good old vendetta going. That used to be the kind of thing people moved to Canada to get away from.


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## dogcom

Another good one is they people lining up around the block for powerball tickets. To me it is the amount combined with the odds of winning that matters. The powerball makes sense if you have enough people in it to bring down the odds. Just buying tickets and wasting money out of the blue and waiting in line just because of a big number is crazy.

Wasting money on lotteries is crazy anyways except if you put a bit in group or just spend a few bucks each week just incase you get lucky but not counting on it like some people seem to do. The funny thing is people who win the lottery on many occasions spend it in a few years with maybe a house to show for it.

I should say I mention this because this is the saving plan for many people is to win the lottery.


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## peterk

Just a Guy said:


> What exactly are "the benefits"?
> 
> It's foolish to judge people on how they look...the same as it's foolish to buy products based on their packaging. The "nice packaging" often has nothing to do with the quality of the contents...I see this a lot in real estate too, many people do superficial repairs, looks nice, building falling down...maybe it's why I've been successful, I look beneath, find the quality.
> 
> I not a fan of "lipstick on a pig".


Perhaps it's less of a concern to you more well seasoned members who have already chosen and established your careers & families, no longer are interested/able/allowed to date, and are generally content with what you have in life. 

For young folks though, neglecting to present yourself in the most appealing manner you can to your colleagues, friends, women, and the world, in some ill-conceived pursuit of frugality, is probably one of the most expensive mistakes you could possibly make.

It doesn't matter whether some consider it foolish, superficial, or low quality, it is the way of the world. Of course it's not everything, you need to have substance and brains, "quality" as it were... But take two twins who say and do the same things in life, dress one up and teach him about style and looking good, and he'll be better off in nearly every aspect of life than the other twin, 99.9% of the time. 

Trying to run your life like the rest of world cares only about profound and noble things such as: wisdom, passion, intelligence, truth and quality is a lesson one needs to learn is false as soon as possible. Perception IS reality, and one of the easiest and cheapest ways to bend the world's perception to your reality is to present the best image of yourself that you can though your good appearances.


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## cainvest

peterk said:


> Perhaps it's less of a concern to you more well seasoned members who have already chosen and established your careers & families, no longer are interested/able/allowed to date, and are generally content with what you have in life.
> 
> For young folks though, neglecting to present yourself in the most appealing manner you can to your colleagues, friends, women, and the world, in some ill-conceived pursuit of frugality, is probably one of the most expensive mistakes you could possibly make.
> 
> It doesn't matter whether some consider it foolish, superficial, or low quality, it is the way of the world. Of course it's not everything, you need to have substance and brains, "quality" as it were... But take two twins who say and do the same things in life, dress one up and teach him about style and looking good, and he'll be better off in nearly every aspect of life than the other twin, 99.9% of the time.
> 
> Trying to run your life like the rest of world cares only about profound and noble things such as: wisdom, passion, intelligence, truth and quality is a lesson one needs to learn is false as soon as possible. Perception IS reality, and one of the easiest and cheapest ways to bend the world's perception to your reality is to present the best image of yourself that you can though your good appearances.


IMO, peterk is correct ... many people in the world put a significant value on one's appearance whether you're young or old, people need to understand that. Of course once the majority of people understand that, everyone can help find a way to get rid of it.


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## Eder

dogcom said:


> If you want to pick the nicest people, I would say Japanese people are at the top of my list. Yet during the war they were sent to camps up north and crap was done to them.


I'm not sure the Chinese would agree since you brought up the war.


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## dogcom

I think your right Eder. Chinese and Japanese are still having problems today over territory and things.

Canniest and peterk are correct about appearance because after all we do have to sell ourselves first before we move forward. Of course you need the correct outfit to fit the situation you find yourself in, so a suit is not always the right thing to wear. In fact a suit could make a costumer feel uncomfortable and your just trying to get a sale where something more casual would make you seem more approachable to talk to.


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## donald

I get what Peter is saying though after a certain point i am not sure the 'return' is worth it
I am not saying to dress like a bum but i can't see how much more effective a pair of jeans north of 150 bucks is much different than a 60 dollar pair type thing(or insert slacks)
clean hair/clean teeth/fit body/clean clothes a smile etc is the ticket more so(that will beat clothes generally almost always imo)*the intangibles*


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## Just a Guy

peterk said:


> Perhaps it's less of a concern to you more well seasoned members who have already chosen and established your careers & families, no longer are interested/able/allowed to date, and are generally content with what you have in life.
> 
> For young folks though, neglecting to present yourself in the most appealing manner you can to your colleagues, friends, women, and the world, in some ill-conceived pursuit of frugality, is probably one of the most expensive mistakes you could possibly make.
> 
> It doesn't matter whether some consider it foolish, superficial, or low quality, it is the way of the world. Of course it's not everything, you need to have substance and brains, "quality" as it were... But take two twins who say and do the same things in life, dress one up and teach him about style and looking good, and he'll be better off in nearly every aspect of life than the other twin, 99.9% of the time.
> 
> Trying to run your life like the rest of world cares only about profound and noble things such as: wisdom, passion, intelligence, truth and quality is a lesson one needs to learn is false as soon as possible. Perception IS reality, and one of the easiest and cheapest ways to bend the world's perception to your reality is to present the best image of yourself that you can though your good appearances.


My sister-in-law was/is very concerned about appearance. In fact her entire life revolved around it.

She married a professional sports guy, very good looking, who became a banker, she's a doctor. They lived in a big house, in a good neighbourhood, had three kids, new cars...

The first few years I knew them, I'd never seen them look "less than perfect", always well groomed in public (even when their kids were sick and throwing up earlier in the day)...

They were, of course, the "family favourites" from the parent's point of view...my wife and I were looked down upon, especially since we didn't do anything "the correct way" like being a doctor/lawyer/banker...being self employed was definitely the wrong career path. 

Of course, living like that isn't easy...especially when the truth came out, it wasn't pretty. To be fair, it's hard to live under the pressure of always being "perfect". 

Long story short, my sister-in-law is now on her second divorce, one of her kids hates her and her father, one is "glad to be away from them", and one still talks to them. Her siblings (including my wife) for the most part can tolerate her for family dinners and the inlaws have come to learn that maybe the "appearance" wasn't the best way to judge people.

Sure, they "looked" the part, even had the trappings of "success" but, in my view, failed miserably at life.

I guess it's all in what you consider "success". My inlaws still can't comprehend the idea that I'm doing well financially as I "don't even have a job" and never really have.


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## coptzr

Just a Guy said:


> When I first started out, I needed to wear a suit every day...hated it. I made money, and started my own business partially to avoid having to wear such clothes ever again. Of course, I still have a couple of suits (for weddings and funerals primarily). I much prefer comfortable clothes, and I haven't seen it have any influence in my lifestyle or success.
> People seem to respect me for my knowledge and what I bring to the company, not for the fancy packaging.


This is what I have dealt with for a long time. Shopping mall retail store sales person spends hundred of dollars to dress fashionable everyday for the customer, on their 5th job and making just over minimum wage plus commission. The government/tech/financial industry around Ottawa dress clean and well kept, but still must meet a specific appearance, make above average salary with all the perks. Than you have myself and some buddies who probably shave once per week, have a rotation of 3-4 of the same uniform, but make above average hourly rates. I've gotten to the point, most people ask me if I even own a suit anymore. I gave up trying to keep up to date each month, now I just by as I need for the occasion. Simple, less stressful, cost efficient, and still up to date. 20yrs later, those retail people are still single, buying $5k watches, $700 iphones, and $40k car on 10yr payments to fit in.


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## Joe Black

My experience has been that the slickest "you could be a model" types usually can't handle the big problems. The ones who really save your *** are usually "business casual" at best. People who are swayed by looks are poor decision makers, in my opinion.


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## Eclectic12

Just a Guy said:


> So, you admit things have changed, yet you still brush people with the same stroke...isn't that...racist?


What brush?

The idea expressed was that "white are less racist than other cultures and get bad rap" where I gave serious examples of white racism in Canada. 


I have no idea how much it has changed but it clearly hasn't gone away. It took two years for my friend to get his Asian wife to tell him that what had upset her several times when they were dating was his white friends grilling her about whether she loved him. Somehow it wasn't an issue until her.


I am interested in how my examples are racist yet somehow there does not seem to be an issue with ...


> The one about being killed for marrying an outsider, that one I can believe because I have seen it in the newspapers but it's not white Canadians who are responsible.





dogcom said:


> Eclectic crap happens all the time to everyone at some point in time and still nothing hateful was said here.
> 
> If you want to pick the nicest people, I would say Japanese people are at the top of my list. Yet during the war they were sent to camps up north and crap was done to them.


So if you met a Japanese or Italian guy who was put in a Canadian internment camp where the family lost their business - are you going to tell them "crap happens" and "racism is much greater amongst other races then whites it is just whites are the ones labeled with this"?

Somehow I doubt he/she is going to care about who is better or worse ... for that matter, would you?




dogcom said:


> When it comes to clothing peterk got me on that because I am lazy when it comes to shopping for clothes. I spend very little on clothing through the year and the most expensive item is shoes. It is not a good idea to cheap out on shoes because that is the lowest point on your body and you can hurt your knees, back and everything starting from the feet.


True about the shoes. Then too, some types of clothes you can tell on rack that they won't last more than once or twice.




Rusty O'Toole said:


> "if you kill me, my father will kill you" put an end to this.
> Yeah that rings a bell. Honor killing. Get a good old vendetta going. That used to be the kind of thing people moved to Canada to get away from.


 ... which no race seems to have a monopoly on.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12

Just a Guy said:


> What exactly are "the benefits"?
> 
> It's foolish to judge people on how they look...
> I not a fan of "lipstick on a pig".


For me, the benefit was getting my TN1 visa granted by US immigration/customs with minimal questions and plenty of time left to catch my flight. My co-worker who ignored the advice to dress appropriately was grilled while the flight left. Eventually it was granted but there was the process of re-booking the flight.

The US at the time, had just removed the appeal process so if the US agent had decided there was lying going on, he had the power to bar my colleague from entering the US for five years.


Cheers


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## Just a Guy

Eclectic12 you live in a more interesting version of Canada and the world than I do obviously.

I've never had issues at the border for the USA or any other country that I've travelled to, and I never wear a suit when travelling both on business and for pleasure.

Also, Japanese internment happened 80 years ago (you're blaming me for decisions made by people who were long dead before I was probably born) not to mention I've never heard of any "white Canadian honor killings"...I have heard of Canadian immigrant honor killings, but that's more them bringing their culture with them, so I wouldn't really call them "Canadian" since those ones tend to be new to the country and brought up with different beliefs. 

The one thing I see with Canadians is the majority of them are rather apathetic, especially when it comes to race. I was brought up to judge people on who they are, not what they look like, my kids don't even notice race, neither do their friends.

Judging from your examples, I think you need to wake up to the fact that the world has come a long way in the past 80 years even if your thinking of it hasn't. You probably would have liked to be an IBM salesman from the 50's as well...


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## donald

Speaking of clothes and 'image'
anybody else notice JT wore jeans in photos of him at davos
I bet he was the only world leader that did that
looked like he was dressed for a night out at keg lol
Lets hope he is not being judged(looked like a bum to be honest and he the salesman for canada.


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## Just a Guy

Wasn't suit wearing Harper the reason we "weren't being taken seriously on the world stage as a country" according to the Canadian press during the election...that's why people were "calling for change". 

Since the election, I've read how things have changed and "Canada can now have a seat at the negotiating table". Must have been the selfies.


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## donald

2 bad he isn't sitting with the big boys that matter though(iebama and Putin)
not sure i like the idea of us not getting the call re:Isis recently
My read was Harper was more respected!
but than again i am not Liberal
I am a Conservative.


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## Eclectic12

Just a Guy said:


> Eclectic12 you live in a more interesting version of Canada and the world than I do obviously.


I was living life, reading books/newspapers/web sites and talking to people. Now that I am aware there are versions, I'm going searching for the one where I'm a multi-millionaire, I had a doting gorgeous wife/kids and there's peace, prosperity and no racism. 




Just a Guy said:


> I've never had issues at the border for the USA or any other country that I've travelled to, and I never wear a suit when travelling both on business and for pleasure.


Welcome to the club ... clearly not all Canadians belong to it.





Just a Guy said:


> Also, Japanese internment happened 80 years ago (you're blaming me for decisions made by people who were long dead before I was probably born) ...


Are you feeling guilty about it?

Someone else mentioned it where I asked what reaction the poster thought they'd get to telling them "crap happens" and "racism is much greater amongst other races then whites it is just whites are the ones labeled with this".

Unless you've got a reason to feel guilty ... I don't see why you are taking it personally.




Just a Guy said:


> ... not to mention I've never heard of any "white Canadian honor killings"... I have heard of Canadian immigrant honor killings, but that's more them bringing their culture with them, so I wouldn't really call them "Canadian" since those ones tend to be new to the country and brought up with different beliefs.


Again ... I think that's a distinction that is irrelevant.

Had my Canadian mom broken up with my Canadian dad or her immigrant uncle killed her ... do you think my dad would care?




Just a Guy said:


> ... Judging from your examples, I think you need to wake up to the fact that the world has come a long way in the past 80 years even if your thinking of it hasn't.


See my next post as the more recent examples I've googled will make this post too long.




Just a Guy said:


> ... You probably would have liked to be an IBM salesman from the 50's as well ...


_ < insert game show buzzer sound here followed by announcer's voice > 

Sorry ... both answers are wrong. 
You are down to your final guess._


LOL ... couldn't resist the urge to throw in a personal comment that is irrelevant, eh?
Full marks for the logical consistency though.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12

As I've been painted as living the past and pining for it ... (like I'd prefer a time when racism was far more open and sweeping), I googled a few more recent incidents.

From 2009 ... 


> Three men have now been charged with assault in an attack on Vancouver Island that appears to have been racially motivated. The accused, aged 19 to 25, were arrested after Jay Phillips, 38, was punched and kicked in the parking lot of a Courtenay ... *Beside the racial epithets, they threatened him and his family with violence.
> 
> "Get the hell out of town, we're going to come back and lynch you," Phillips recalled the men screaming.*


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/apparent-b-c-hate-crime-leads-to-3-arrests-1.804962




> The Ontario Parole Board has denied Trevor Middleton early parole for his role in a night of racist attacks on Asian Canadian anglers near Keswick that left one man with permanent brain damage.
> 
> Middleton, a professional motocross racer from Georgina, was found guilty in 2009 ... after Newmarket court heard he repeatedly rammed his Ford F-150 truck into a Honda Civic driven by Shayne Berwick, who had been fishing in Lake Simcoe with a group of friends that included two Asian Canadians in the early hours of September 16, 2007 when a gang of locals attacked.
> 
> Court heard that *Berwick and his friends attempted to flee the area of the Mossington Park Bridge in a Honda Civic, while Middleton gave chase at high speeds in his Ford F-150 truck ...
> 
> Berwick, a former apprentice electrician, suffered permanent brain damage when his car spun off the road during the high speed chase and smashed into a tree. *


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/02/05/early_parole_denied_for_man_in_niptipping_trial.html


Apparently the local slang is “nipper-tipping” or “nip-tipping,” for attacks on Asian fishermen. 

Once the tax payer finishes paying for locking up this guy, depending on how bad the brain damage is, there could be decades of medical expenses and possibly the loss of income taxes.


From 2014 ...


> A black student was beaten in a York Region schoolyard as onlookers yelled racial slurs — the same high school that last year had to ban teens from wearing items adorned with the controversial Confederate flag.
> 
> Four youths and one adult have been charged with assault in the April incident at Sutton District High School, filmed by several students who watched the morning attack of punches and kicks as one onlooker yelled “pound the n-----.”
> 
> Others then taunt a white student after he falls, saying “you’re losing to the black kid,” followed by: “Get the n-----, get pounding.” ...
> 
> the family was upset to only learn of the assault at 8 p.m. at night, when it occurred in the morning as teens got off the bus ...


http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/...urs_as_teen_beaten_at_sutton_high_school.html


There may not be the broad, sweeping racism there used to be in Canada but it seems clear that people are being hurt and the tax payer is paying a price for it ... regardless of what my "thinking" is or my "version".


Cheers


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## dogcom

Racism is here to stay in Canada in all forms, white to black, black to white, asian to black and on and on. Just like people still go to the store to steal, it will never change. However it is going down in Canada as people are being educated to being more accepting and old attitudes are going away. But it will always be there in some form no matter what we do


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## Joe Black

donald said:


> Speaking of clothes and 'image'
> anybody else notice JT wore jeans in photos of him at davos
> I bet he was the only world leader that did that
> looked like he was dressed for a night out at keg lol
> Lets hope he is not being judged(looked like a bum to be honest and he the salesman for canada.


Can the anti-Justin people at least be consistent in their criticism? During the election the conservative message was "experience over looks", "nice hair, though", etc. Now you are criticizing because he doesn't have the "right look". So, are we supposed to judge him on his looks or not?

I'm not loyal to any particular party. I might have voted conservative except I couldn't support a party with such clownish repertoire as "vote Liberal and there will be a brothel in every neighbourhood" or "barbaric practices hotline".


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## Just a Guy

You know 80 years ago we didn't have the Internet, or very good global media. Yet reports of lynchings in the south, segregation, and acts of violence against races were common knowledge. 

There are 35-40 million people in Canada, we have global communication and still the best you can do is a few reports over several years. With 35-40 million people, something as uncommon as a 1 in a million shot, will happen between 35-40 times. One or two cases, oh heck let's say it's 10,000 times worst, is still statistically irrelevant. We're never going to eliminate it completely, but we've come a long way since it was common, where it happened everywhere.

If you look hard enough, I'm sure you'll find evidence of anything you want...especially in a world of 7-8 billion.


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## donald

Joe:Think the 'looks' was more related to face and hair(i am a man obviously but can see why women think he is hot,no doubt the guy is nice looking,half the young females demo in this country think it's cool i am sure to have a hot Pm)
I am just of the mindset that if your going to sit at a table with men like Mr Soros etc put on a bloody pair of suit slacks-you really think it is appropriate attire?
He couldn't get away with dressing like that at a standard local country club in this country lol
I know he prob wants to project cool and hip for the young demo but c'mon
It's davos.


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## Eclectic12

dogcom said:


> Racism is here to stay in Canada in all forms, white to black, black to white, asian to black and on and on... But it will always be there in some form no matter what we do


That's where this can be either good or bad.

If it keeps one from losing hope ... then it is good. 
If it means one turns a blind eye to what's going on ... it is bad.


Cheers


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## MrMatt

Not considering the value of your time.
When I am working overtime I'm pressed, it makes no sense to skip out of work early for a few dollars in savings, or spent an hour running an errand.

Bite the bullet and pay a few dollars more.


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## dogcom

Its funny MrMatt I remember in school people wanting to skip out and I couldn't see any value in doing so. I figured the mall will still be there at 3PM so why be in a rush and skip out at 1 or 2PM just to get to the mall faster. The other one was smoking I couldn't see any value in doing it except to cost me money and make me sick so I never tried it. I think this is where the stupidity is started and carried on to adult life.


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## smihaila

Bad or Dumb Ways to Save Money:
- "Investing" spare cash while still holding a mortgage and not paying the Banskster off first.
- Renting depreciating assets like water heaters (what's next? Fridges, TV sets, Furniture LOL).
- Reading any mainstream books on investing  (it's all propaganda from the Walstreet gang of crooks folks  )
- Not considering energy efficiency in a house seriously and deciding to go the cheaper way instead (i.e. windows, furnance, crappy roof, crappy house aka "wood barracks"  )
- Rationalization / Compartmentalization of money income / payments ("his" vs. "her" money).
- Treating your 1st, 2nd or even 3rd-grade relatives as strangers, money-wise.


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## cutchemist42

The problem of being cheap price/cheap quality vs higher-price/better quality is that the two dont always matchup. You can possibly waste money buying something that is both high price and bad quality, but there might not be a way to know of that before you buy.


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## ThinkingCapital

Generally speaking, not planning leads to wasting money. For example, as someone mentioned, driving around to get the cheapest gas prices is often a waste of money. So is grocery shopping without a plan and driving to two or three different stores to pick up different things. By having a plan, you can hit the stores you need in the most economical way.

And, yes, as others noted, things like not paying for insurance can really come back to hurt you.


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## dogcom

Speaking of insurance I talked to someone yesterday who said it is very hard to get insurance on wood frame condo's. He said you have to buy it from a european company or something. He said he knows but I wonder if this is really true. They are cheaper of course then concrete but is this a false economy and also a dumb way to save money in buying one of these.


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## Just a Guy

I've never had any issues buying insurance on wood framed condo buildings, I just called my broker. Pretty darn cheap to, I think it's around $120/year. Of course, this is a landlord package, and I may get a bulk discount...in fact, I just added a three new ones to my account, I think two at least were wood frame.


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## Arelius

While it's important to save money, don't do it by living like a hermit. If I had to give up vacation, socializing with friends and dining out just to save a few hundred bucks more a month, then life would be quite miserable. That being said, keep to these few simple rules

- Keep a detailed budget and stick to it.
- Think of saving as a primary mandatory expense, not whatever is left over.
- Never carry credit card debt for more than two weeks to avoid interest payments.
- Don't buy luxury vehicles as cars are always losing value.
- Pick the cheaper basement instead of renting that high rise condo
- Invest your money instead of letting it sit in the bank.


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