# I hate our pool ... and I haven't even used it yet



## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

We had moved onto an acreage late last year. When searching for a home, I did NOT want a pool, but my wife said she wouldn't mind one, but that it wasn't a showstopper either way. The acreage we found has a large pool ... of course  

Now that spring is here, we are looking at starting up the pool. At the time of our home inspection, the Inspector said the pool mechanical equipment looked good, but that he couldn't be sure since they had already 'winterized' the pool. So we had a local pool company come down to evaluate our needs. Turns out our pump was dead, and the natural gas heater was on it's last legs. The filter is 'probably' OK.

All in all, this week is going to cost us around $10,000 just to get our mechanical equipment updated and the pool started. The pool has to be drained, cleaned (it's nasty right now), and refilled (water trucked in since we can't use our well water). And that doesn't cover the rest of the summer's maintenance cost, and the cost to 'close' the pool for winter. 

We live near Edmonton, so we really only have June, July and August ... and maybe part of Sept to enjoy the pool. Definitely not worth it!!! I wonder if my wife will notice that I've turned it into a large garden space next spring :biggrin:


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Just because you have something doesn't mean you have to use it. If you live on an acreage, it's not like you need the space. Of course, it's not hard to fill it in either.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

mind_business said:


> Turns out our pump was dead, and the natural gas heater was on it's last legs. The filter is 'probably' OK.


Of course you'll get a second opinion right? Better yet if you know someone with a pool and how the equipment works, ask them. Opening and closing a pool isn't rocket science but you do have to learn how to do it, usually pick it up just by watching them once or on the internet. They are a bit of work but once you learn how to keep them running it can be really worth it. I've only been swimming once this year, late spring in winterpeg, but I'm looking forward to a few pool parties in the weekends ahead.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mind_business said:


> We had moved onto an acreage late last year. When searching for a home, I did NOT want a pool, but my wife said she wouldn't mind one, but that it wasn't a showstopper either way. The acreage we found has a large pool ... of course
> 
> Now that spring is here, we are looking at starting up the pool. At the time of our home inspection, the Inspector said the pool mechanical equipment looked good, but that he couldn't be sure since they had already 'winterized' the pool. So we had a local pool company come down to evaluate our needs. Turns out our pump was dead, and the natural gas heater was on it's last legs. The filter is 'probably' OK.
> 
> ...


I sympathize with you. Before I got divorced, I had a large home with a half acre corner lot. There was a big 20x40 inground pool that came with it.
*Right from the start it was a money pit,* since without a heater the water temp was too cold until about the first week of June and then cooled off by mid September even with a new solar blanket on it at night.

1 Hp pump runnng 24/7 ran up the hydro bill . Chemicals...wow! it just sucked up expensive clorine granular, pucks and stabilizer, ph balancer, algacide and so on...The kids enjoyed it but I had to spend 1/2 an hour each day skimming the leaves and debris floating on the top, and also had to buy a new 'barracuda" bottom ( pool suction) operated cleaner that went around..(except in the corners of course) to clean off the dirt falling in and the algae. I still had to scrub the sides of the pool were the sucker could not reach......what a pain!

Then about 2 years later, one corner of the liner that the UV rays hit all the time..split!..cost of a new liner back then... over$2000 installed. Pump was finished also needed replacement, so was the filter media, another $2000, then it sprang a leak at one of it's jets...that was it! *The end of this money pit for me*.

Drained it and called in the bulldozer/gravel truck to truck in fill and top soil. Planted some trees in it afterwards. In all for 3 years (3 months per season) it cost me nearly $8,000 to maintain it, and another $2000 to fill it in, and about a $1500 for some larger trees to be planted by tree specialists.
This was in 1992..I imagine it would cost a lot more today to fill in a 10,000 gallon (or was it 20,000?) today.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I would rate a swimming pool as the biggest waste of money that has ever been conceived. A boat would be next on the list. The cost/benefit ratio for both is absurd.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

pwm said:


> I would rate a swimming pool as the biggest waste of money that has ever been conceived. A boat would be next on the list. The cost/benefit ratio for both is absurd.


Yes. If you consider the hours of swimming (weekend mostly or 1 hr per day in July/August when its really hot..(say 50 hrs a month on "good sunny days"..not too cold outside, mine cost about $2500/100 hrs for the season..*about $$25 an hour for the times you swam in it.* Of course, if you considered 3 months (90 days) of water temp where you could swim in it .
...it was a bit cheaper, but you can't swim in it 8 hrs a day and the pump runs 24/7, and it uses up the chemicals at an alarming rate whether you swim in it or not.

I had to shock the pool many times to adjust the ph. The sun's UV destroys the chlorine, so you must have a liquid chlorination...expensive big container of bulk chlorine. 

You also have to do daily ph tests on the pool water to make sure the ph is just right..too much chlorine burns your eyes...too little chorine and the algae takes over and the pool turns GREEN!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

pwm said:


> I would rate a swimming pool as the biggest waste of money that has ever been conceived. A boat would be next on the list. The cost/benefit ratio for both is absurd.


I can't disagree. Although I think the boat is less risky financially, since you can always sell it and get some of your original 'investment' back. The pool, you have to pay to make it disappear.

I think you need to have young (but not too young) kids to make a pool worthwhile. They're the ones who will use it the most.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

pwm said:


> I would rate a swimming pool as the biggest waste of money that has ever been conceived.


For most people ... yes ... whereas for my sister, it was the choice between having her daughter & friends where she could keep an eye on them or at the neighbour's pool - where there was little or no adult supervision.

Though big factor as well is that outdoor swimming season near Windsor is a lot longer than a lot of the rest of the country.




pwm said:


> ... A boat would be next on the list....


That's where I figure my relatives in LA have the best deal. 

They belong to a sailing club so for $1200 a year, they have the choice of something over thirty boats. Since they are self employed, there's no problem booking the sailboat of their choice as the weekends are the busy time. If he wants to tinker, there's a repair crew that works during the morning and goes out for an afternoon sail every week. If not, other club members are happy to keep the boats repaired.

As the boats are all sail boats, the only gas to pay is getting in/out of the marina.


Cheers


*PS*

For the boat, the time it was closest to a reasonable cost/benefit was my friend's buddy who decided that for the amount of stuff he wanted to keep, living on a boat in the Vancouver area was far cheaper than buying a house.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

Installed a pool in our former house and the children loved it until they were about 15 yrs old. One new liner and chemicals were our only major expenses. The heater was seldom on as we live in a warm area of the country. I did the maintenance myself (cleaning, opening, closing, winterizing, etc) and believe it or not, it was a major selling point to the people we sold the home to. Presumably it was a detraction to others. After the children stopped using it it received little use, albeit it looked nice in our landscaped yard. I guess my conclusion is that they are good to have with children but after that they are a nuisance. Suggest you fill it in.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

mind_business said:


> All in all, this week is going to cost us around $10,000 just to get our mechanical equipment updated and the pool started. The pool has to be drained, cleaned (it's nasty right now), and refilled (water trucked in since we can't use our well water). And that doesn't cover the rest of the summer's maintenance cost, and the cost to 'close' the pool for winter.


I find $10k excessive.....A heatpump, pool pump and filter should run you no more than $5k. I am unfamiliar with the cost of trucked-in water but I can't see the bill climb up to $10k once all is done.

In any case, if the existing pool requires too much maintenance and repair, I would just fill it in and install a brand new above-ground pool. It will cost you under $10k with the added benefit of less worries due to it being brand new.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Currently own two homes with pools including our vacation rental and I honestly would never own a house without one. Our backyard is an oasis and totally private, quiet with lush gardens and backing onto a ravine. We keep the water at 86+ all summer which means we swim for hours (my two kids were in for at least 4 hours on Sunday).

Total time per week to maintain - less than 15 minutes. High end Polaris pressure side cleaner (a barracuda or creepy crawly is a joke), 250,000 BTU gas heater ($2,500 installed, new this spring replacing an 11 year old one that worked flawlessly for a decade). Salt water system means zero chlorine to add and no red eyes or irritated skin. Underground sprinkler keeps the gardens watered and although a lot of work gets done in the spring to get it beautiful and planted, the rest of the summer is sit back and enjoy.

Like most things in life - spend the money to do it properly if you can afford to and you will get the most enjoyment.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

We have about a 16x32 saltwater pool at the house we bought 2 years ago. I did not want a house with a pool but SO did....and that pretty much sealed it. The pool is now 10 yrs old and we had to replace the heater and the pump this spring. I suspect the liner is next within the next few years, as will the solar blanket. I have no idea what those will cost us to replace and probably do not want to know until it is necessary to know.

I have not added up the average operating costs for each season but it probably runs in the order of $2-2.5k... based on pool opening and closing each season, and bi-weekly servicing by a local pool company. I have no interest in maintaiing it other than water level and skimming debris when necessary. It is a money pit for sure and I would prefer not to have it.... except for the 3-4 hot summer months in the Okanagan valley where I reluctantly admit it brings joy to us and our families (and grandchildren) who come to visit and stay. C'est la vie.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_
I wonder if my wife will notice that I've turned it into a large garden space next spring 
_ ... or turn it into trout pond 
Bur seriously, I'd never buy a house with swimming pool..... even when we shopped for house in California (and we actually wanted house with swimming pool) , in about 8-10 houses we visited with real estate agent, we hated every pool...of it's too shallow, like 0.5 m deep or extremely ugly shape or something else... So, if I'd like to have , I would rather pay for a new one.... however, than problem can arise when you want to sell house, as buyers can think that this you have an ugly or too deep pool 
imho, in canada to have a pool -> it's a waste of money


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_it probably runs in the order of $2-2.5k... _ also , I suppose that your home insurance would be higher, you will pay much more for utilities.... I'd prefer additional winter 1 week AL vacation on Cuba 

P.S. I have on my back yard all weather professional German ping-pong table for 6-7 years... paid about $1,000 and this is really good investment


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

gibor said:


> _
> P.S. I have on my back yard all weather professional German ping-pong table for 6-7 years... paid about $1,000 and this is really good investment _


_

What a great idea...........now, I have to look them up.........lol.

A membership to a private residents club is included in our rent. It has indoor and outdoor pools.

I have been in them 1 time in 8 years.

We owned 3 homes with pools...........nothing but headaches and liability, as far as I am concerned._


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

frase said:


> I guess my conclusion is that they are good to have with children but after that they are a nuisance. Suggest you fill it in.


+1 ^


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I have not added up the average operating costs for each season but it probably runs in the order of $2-2.5k... based on pool opening and closing each season, and bi-weekly servicing by a local pool company. .


Seem about right if you have a pool maintenance. Does that include any parts replaced like the filter system or liner?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> _
> 
> Bur seriously, I'd never buy a house with swimming pool..... even when we shopped for house in California (and we actually wanted house with swimming pool) , in about 8-10 houses we visited with real estate agent, we hated every pool...of it's too shallow, like 0.5 m deep or extremely ugly shape or something else... So, if I'd like to have , I would rather pay for a new one....* however, than problem can arise when you want to sell house, as buyers can think that this you have an ugly or too deep pool*
> imho, in canada to have a pool -> it's a waste of money _


_

A lot of buyers, especially those with small children would feel that way. I remember one house that I bought in '82 that had an above ground pool that came with it.
A day after we moved in, my 4 year old daughter at the time, caught her lying down on the deck splashing the water in the pool with her hand..
we had just taken our eyes off her for no more than "5" minutes and thought she was in the house. 

That convinced me r*ight there and then* that it was probably a matter of time until something happened. Drained it in the next few days and dismantled it.

The other problem that I discovered with the next house we bought (20x40 inground) was the ugly poor cover for most of the year and the sludge that accumulates over
the fall, winter and spring on the top of the pool cover with the rain water and snow melt. Leaves, dead frogs, other stuff..and it's so ugly to look at during
the times it's not in use._


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

carverman said:


> A lot of buyers, especially those with small children would feel that way. .


Exactly  and a lot of buyers with big kids / or without kids will think different way...  and if you would like to replace pool , it probably will cost more than to build a new one... thus when selling home , it can .... reduce value of the home....


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> We have about a 16x32 saltwater pool at the house we bought 2 years ago. I did not want a house with a pool but SO did....and that pretty much sealed it. The pool is now 10 yrs old and we had to replace the heater and the pump this spring. I suspect the liner is next within the next few years, as will the solar blanket. I have no idea what those will cost us to replace and probably do not want to know until it is necessary to know.
> 
> I have not added up the average operating costs for each season but it probably runs in the order of $2-2.5k... based on pool opening and closing each season, and bi-weekly servicing by a local pool company. I have no interest in maintaiing it other than water level and skimming debris when necessary. It is a money pit for sure and I would prefer not to have it.... except for the 3-4 hot summer months in the Okanagan valley where I reluctantly admit it brings joy to us and our families (and grandchildren) who come to visit and stay. C'est la vie.


My parents live in Kelowna where I can see the benefit of a pool. The summers get nasty hot out there.

Thanks for the info on pool maintenance costs. I had budgeted $2K per year for all maintenance, but it might be a bit light. I'm assuming my only hardware costs going forward will be pool covers (our current one has a couple of holes through it where a deer or moose punctured it, but it can be fixed) and replacement cartridges for the filter system. Other than that, I have to buy a few typical cleaning tools.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

gibor said:


> _it probably runs in the order of $2-2.5k... _ also , I suppose that your home insurance would be higher, you will pay much more for utilities.... I'd prefer additional winter 1 week AL vacation on Cuba
> 
> P.S. I have on my back yard all weather professional German ping-pong table for 6-7 years... paid about $1,000 and this is really good investment


I had to laugh when I read this. We're going to be setting up our ping-pong table outdoors as well. We have a very sheltered property with forest all around us, so wind is usually not a problem. It's hard to ever feel even a slight breeze.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

... and it has begun :hopelessness:


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Our pool was installed in the late 70's, so it is very faded ... but no cracks  It hasn't been run since 2012, so it has lots of algae to clean. They're using an acid wash to remove it.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

mind_business said:


> ... and it has begun :hopelessness:
> 
> View attachment 1010
> View attachment 1002


I liked Kae's aquarium shots much better! 

Looks like a nice pool - should be fun.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

OK, a wee bit of a change ... we're going to backfill in our pool :eek2:

I mentioned in an earlier post that there weren't any cracks ... I lied ... well I was misinformed. There are a bunch of cracks that are hard to see until you look. When you press down on them, outside ... yes outside ... water seeps through. These cracks are all over the floor and lower sides of the pool. But that's not the worst part ... we were also informed that there was soil erosion happening under the pool and partially up the sides. The pool had LOTS of eroded area that can easily be felt when walking on the bottom of the pool. Undoubtedly the soil erosion is at least partially caused by water leaking through the cracks from the inside of the pool.

Long story short ... we've decided to cut our losses with the pool company and send them home. There's a small re-stocking fee for the pool equipment that they partially installed, and we have to pay for their labour for this morning, but that's it. 

Now I just need to find a construction company wanting to get rid of backfill material.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry to read about the cracks but it may be for the best. I haven't owned a pool before but from the comments here and everything I've read seems expensive. Our season may well be even shorter than yours.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

mind_business said:


> .. well I was misinformed.


Do you have any recourse, for example with disclosure statements, that'll allow you to recoup some of your purchase price outlay?


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Nemo2 said:


> Do you have any recourse, for example with disclosure statements, that'll allow you to recoup some of your purchase price outlay?


No. It was made clear to us from the start that the pool was old, and they couldn't verify the condition of the pool or equipment. We knew going in that it was a risk. Personally I'm quite happy to fill in the pool. One less big headache for me ... and eliminates a constant money drain.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mind_business said:


> OK, a wee bit of a change ... we're going to backfill in our pool :eek2:
> 
> . The pool had LOTS of eroded area that can easily be felt when walking on the bottom of the pool. Undoubtedly the soil erosion is at least partially caused by water leaking through the cracks from the inside of the pool.
> 
> Now I just need to find a construction company wanting to get rid of backfill material.


If there is soil erosion underneath, the construction company has to bring in a backhoe and bust up the concrete walls and floor. ...
otherwise the backfill will not drain properly and you will end up with a small pool size swamp in no time, not to mention soil settling issues.

I had to call a construction company that had a backhoe to bust up the steel wall in my case and the liner was stripped off and put in the garbage pickup.
The cement deck and floor was busted up and the steel walls were folded into the hole.
It took about 10 (10 cubic yards) dump truck loads to fill with backfill and then 1 or 2 topsoil afterwards. He used a small bulldozer to ride over the backfill back and forth to spread it and compact it.
Back in 1993 prices, it was about $1500..now I would expect closer to $2500 to fill it in.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

carverman said:


> Seem about right if you have a pool maintenance. Does that include any parts replaced like the filter system or liner?


Does not include any reserve for equipment replacement, but does cover operating costs such as hydro (pump) and gas (heat). We've already replaced the pump and heater this spring (10 yrs old). I suspect the filter cartridges, solar blanket and liner will all have to be replaced within the next 3-5 years.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

When we moved from Edmonton to an acreage north of Toronto. the wife and kids did not want to move. So I promised them central air and a large pool. Both the acreage and the pool were a lot of work but I never regretted doing it. DW and I would enjoy sitting by the pool as much as swimming in it. Our dog got upset when we were in the pool so we would put her on an inflatable raft so she could enjoy it with us (20x40). The gas heater would cost us hundreds of dollar during the season. Kids like 88 degrees!

We also had an outside fireplace and I remember sitting with her at night looking at the fire across the pool, with the flames flickering on the water, and enjoying a full moon gleaming in as well. Truly magical!

Yes a pool is an unjustifiable extravagance. Would I do it again. Yes if I had young kids. But not now.

There are certain expenses in life that can never be justified, but when I think back to those years, I would not trade them for anything.
YMMV


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

For some reason I thought most cities/municipalities don't allow pools to be back filled? Carver mentioned having to crack the concrete for drainage, but I thought the pool had to be stripped of all metal, liner, mechanical parts. Does anyone here know the regulations on filling in pools?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> For some reason I thought most cities/municipalities don't allow pools to be back filled? Carver mentioned having to crack the concrete for drainage, but I thought the pool had to be stripped of all metal, liner, mechanical parts. Does anyone here know the regulations on filling in pools?


Addy; *with swimming pools there is as list of regulations with each municipality.* In any municipality you may also need a permit before any pool excavation, as well as plan of survey for your property.

Pools cannot be within "so many feet" of adjoining property lines and sometimes a building inspector comes around (at time of permit) to verify the property owner is not contravening any municipal by-laws.
at the time the pool is installed. 
Once the permit is approved and construction is finished the city tax inspector may also come around to measure and tax the property based on the pool dimensions. Your property insurance underwrite
MUST be informed to provide an extra liability coverage that a pool requires = increased premium. Also any pool lighting (in the sidewall of the pool) requires a licensed electrician and permit to hook up
to the electrical panel. Lights and pool pump. 
http://code.municipalworld.com/brantford/437.pdf


There are municipal restrictions as well to remove an existing pool and usually it requires another permit and inspection by city bylaw that the pool has been filled in satisfactorily. The tax dept is then
notified to (slightly) adjust the property taxes and the homeowner is then required to notify their insurance that the pool has been removed which may require a copy of the permit/work order and
any pictures before and after to satisfy the insurance company.

http://swimpooldemolitionandremoval.com/contactus.html

how they do it..
http://swimpooldemolitionandremoval.com/howwedoit.html

In my pool removal (fill in) case, my property was zoned by the township and not part of the City of Ottawa at that time..it is now. So I would be going through more by-law regulations to remove it and
a permit would be necessary. Yes, you are correct that all concrete and metal parts (if any) must be removed by the contractor, disposed of at a cost to the homeowner, and approved clean fill
and topsoil to restore the area to the same condition as before.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

carverman said:


> Addy; *with swimming pools there is as list of regulations with each municipality.* In any municipality you may also need a permit before any pool excavation, as well as plan of survey for your property.
> 
> Pools cannot be within "so many feet" of adjoining property lines and sometimes a building inspector comes around (at time of permit) to verify the property owner is not contravening any municipal by-laws.
> at the time the pool is installed.
> ...


One more thing to add to your list, the method of fill has to be 'Engineered', including compaction requirements. 

We actually don't have any concrete or metal to dispose of since the construction of the pool is simply fibreglass with compacted soil on the outside. The pool company was amazed at how 'poorly' constructed it was.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mind_business said:


> One more thing to add to your list, the method of fill has to be 'Engineered', including compaction requirements.


Yes, I remember having settling problems a few weeks after it had rained and that caused a depression in the middle. Had to truck in more screened topsoil and that was expensive 10 cu yard truckload..around $40 a cu yard delivered.
Had to shovel and rake it myself then plant grass seed. Still had a lot of weed seeds in the topsoil.

In all with the backhoe work, trucked in fill..it came out to nearly $2000 by the time I had it filled in ready to plant some 10 year old trees..think it was a couple of large crabapples and a blue spruce which was another $1000.
It probably would have been cheaper to replace the torn liner...but by that time I was fed up with the yearly expense and only about 12 weeks of real use with no propane heater..another $1000 + the cost of the large propane
tanks. Pool was just too large and took too much in chemicals and maintenance, but thankfully I was on a well so refilling it with a few thousand gallons of water each time I opened it didn't cost me a fortune in metered water
and sewer charges. Most people that still had pools had a tanker truck in some municpal water at $100 or so per tankful.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

No way is it going to cost you 10k to repair the pool. Your getting hosed. I just replaced my pool pump last week, it cost me $800 including installation, for a mid-high end pump. I had to buy a new gas heater 2 years ago when ours died it cost me $1600 with taxes installed. Those 2 items are $2,400.

You can drain the pool yourself, go buy a pump or rent a pump. I would expect that with the new pump, heater, removal of the water and new water plus initial chemical purchase you shouldn't be paying no more than $3,500.


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