# VPN anyone ?



## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Just got myself a Firestick streaming device from Amazon when it was 20% off 2 weeks ago. Mainly to get Netflix with this. Found a lot of advises on line that I should get VPN with this. Also my Norton Security on my computer keep telling me to get their VPN suscription for safe browsing. Is this necessary ? Any of you use VPN service ? If yes, which one ? Thanks.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I use Hotspot Shield from Mexico to show I am in Canada when I chat with Shaw Direct. I will also use it once in a while with Netflix to get better selection of shows. It is free for those uses.


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## Emjay85 (Nov 9, 2014)

Nord VPN is top rated. That is what I would go with if I was in the market for a VPN


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## MillionDollarJourney (Apr 3, 2009)

And if you decide on NordVPN, make sure to check out eBates which offers additional cash back.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I have been looking at VPNs. I too have Firestick. No real need for VPN (yet!) except for switching location. So far, I am using the free version of Windscribe. It is based in Toronto. https://www.reddit.com/r/Windscribe/ It can be installed direct from app store on Firestick. I have not done that - just using it on computer so far.

Paid versions of Windscribe and others like NORDVPN are not exactly low cost if you only need to use them occasionally.

This site has a comparison of VPNs. Not totally up to date, but lot's of info.

Looking for cheapest pay VPN? I so far have looked at this list:
Fastestvpn https://fastestvpn.com/buy-vpn?a_aid=5b80030f787a0
Surfshark https://surfshark.com/
PIA https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/
PureVPN https://www.purevpn.com/order-now.php?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=aff-35741-vpnservicepro.com
Cyberghost https://www.cyberghostvpn.com
NordVPN https://join.nordvpn.com/order/?menu=pricing
Ivacy https://www.ivacy.com/buy-ivacy-vpn/?utm_source=aff-22035&utm_medium=Affiliate
IPVanish https://www.ipvanish.com/

There are of course hundreds more! 

Seems location or jurisdiction of company is important for some (are they likely to be "audited" )
Also method of payment may provide a trail to user.

Just something to research until golf weather returns  If anyone finds THE best deal, please post


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I use private internet access. They seem reputable and have a pretty reliable service.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

MillionDollarJourney said:


> And if you decide on NordVPN, make sure to check out eBates which offers additional cash back.


NordVPN and Surfshark offer extra 20% in cashback of their multiyear deals if you join and buy through ebates.

Regarding Norton - https://www.pcmag.com/review/354003/norton-wifi-privacy-vpn


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## Onagoth (May 12, 2017)

I've used PIA for years...no complaints.

Keep meaning to look at Nord but then PIA renews and I forget about it for another year. Meh. I'm sure both do the same thing.


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

*May the Fourth with you all !

*Thank you all for the replies. 

I am still contemplating if I need this for normal use. Getting more selection of videos on Netflix is not important to me, The Firestick is mainly for YouTube. I often like to check out the travelling videos there. So I can watch it from my TV instead of the computer. Movies and TV I always get them from my local library. Will take a free one month trial with Netflix and Amazon Prime first and then decide.

A99, do you find the speed ot the internet slow down when you use VPN with the Firestick ?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Benting said:


> I am still contemplating if I need this for normal use. Getting more selection of videos on Netflix is not important to me, The Firestick is mainly for YouTube. I often like to check out the travelling videos there. So I can watch it from my TV instead of the computer. Movies and TV I always get them from my local library. Will take a free one month trial with Netflix and Amazon Prime first and then decide.
> 
> A99, do you find the speed ot the internet slow down when you use VPN with the Firestick ?


If you don't have a specific reason for a VPN (geoblocking, etc) you don't really need it. 

VPNs do slow down the connection but for most low bandwidth/slow activities (web browsing, emails, etc) you'll likely not notice it.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Benting said:


> *
> A99, do you find the speed ot the internet slow down when you use VPN with the Firestick ?*


*

Benting, I only installed Windscribe on my laptop, just to learn a bit more about VPNs. I don't have high speed internet (14Mbps) but I haven't noticed any difference in speed on video sites. Windscribe is close to home. I suppose the VPNs located further afield might be more prone to slowdown. 

From what I read, those who don't want authorities nosing into their on-line usage, prefer not to use VPNs in countries where laws allow that sort of prying. 

Doesn't sound like you need a VPN yet. So far, I only turn mine on if I want to access country specific sites. Countries are limited on the free Windscribe(10) and you get just 10Gb/month. I only so far used Canada/USA/UK and only 0.5Gb . Haven't decided yet which VPN to install on the Firestick.*


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Thank you A99 and cainvest. Guess I'll go ahead without the VPN for now.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Netflix doesn't allow VPNs to bypass geoblocking (can only access through non-VPN connections).

I use it to less than fully legally acquire content that is not easily and cheaply available to me, while avoiding any copyright complaints from rightsholders through the ISP.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> If you don't have a specific reason for a VPN (geoblocking, etc) you don't really need it.
> 
> VPNs do slow down the connection but for most low bandwidth/slow activities (web browsing, emails, etc) you'll likely not notice it.


I can game on NordVPN. Some VPNs actually market themselves to lower ping for gaming. I can do the same by chosing a VPN server close to the game server to tunnels all traffic directly from there. Sometimes it lowers the ping and sometimes it doesn't, it's pratically negligible in my experience.

It's the free ones that slow down your internet or cheap ones without enough server location options. I wouldn't buy a VPN for the sake of reducing ping but a good one certainly doesn't necessarily hurt it either. Sometimes a server gets bogged down and you just need to switch to another


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I recently noticed that despite using a VPN, the sites I accessed still knew I was in Canada. Checking into this, I found that one of the possible reasons was because browsers like Chrome, Firefox and others default to providing sites with your location. They 'may' ask you first if it is OK. However, you can turn this off. This article describes the problem and how to turn off geolocation:

https://proprivacy.com/privacy-service/guides/disable-geolocation-in-browsers

There are other ways sites can determine your location, but for now this hopefully cured the problem I had noticed. Won't know for sure until I am out of Canada.


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## matthew01 (Apr 6, 2020)

Regardless if you're getting a pop up regarding needing a VPN for your fire device I'd still suggest you go for one. I've been using Surfshark for a while now on my Firestick and haven't had any issue with it. I even use it on my phone. The VPN is cheap plus allows unlimited multi-logins.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm not sure what security benefits a VPN really has, so your ISP doesn't know what IP you're connected to, but the VPN provider knows this.
Also several VPN providers sell this data.

So you're basically giving some third party, that you don't know, the information you're trying to hide from your ISP.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> Also several VPN providers sell this data.


Really? Source? The paid VPNs are selling my data? (I use Nord)



MrMatt said:


> So you're basically giving some third party, that you don't know, the information you're trying to hide from your ISP.


Exactly. A third party domiciled in another country that doesn't keep logs and has no interest in revealing my details.
As opposed to Rogers, Bell, Shaw, etc who would turn over my records in a heartbeat.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....sigh....I wish I understood any of this....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Rogers Cable is now giving customers free access to the Hollywood Suite of movies.

It can be accessed through the guide or channel number, but is also available on the voice control on the Ignite remote control.

Example........If you want to watch western movies just say "western movies" and all the movies from Hollywood Suite will come up along with Netflix, Amazon Prime, HBO and Disney.

We have all the packages so it is a handy way to see all the movies available in one place, rather than searching through all the programs.

Hollywood Suite offers tons of movies from the past eras, so there is lots of good content available.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> ....sigh....I wish I understood any of this....


He goes Jargey, lets use mailing a regular letter as an example.

Regular mail ...

You mail a letter to an specific address, say 123 box street, Gander, NL.
Canada post sends the letter directly to 123 box street, Gander, NL.
If they send reply mail it goes directly back to you home address.

VPN mail ...

You place your letter to 123 box street, Gander, NL. inside another letter.
The outer letter is address is 456 virtual street Chicago, IL, USA.
Canada post sees the Chicago, IL address and the letter goes there.
At Chicago, IL, they open it, change the inner letter return address to Chicago, IL.
They then mail your inside letter to 123 box street Gander, NL.
If they send reply mail, it goes back to Chicago, IL.
Chicago, IL then mails the return letter to your home address.

So the entire point of VPN being ...

It looks like, to Canada Post, you only send letters to 456 virtual street Chicago, IL, USA.
The final recipients of every letter you send all think they came from 456 virtual street Chicago, IL, USA.
The final recipients don't know your home address.

Make sense?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

dotnet_nerd said:


> Really? Source? The paid VPNs are selling my data? (I use Nord)
> 
> 
> Exactly. A third party domiciled in another country that doesn't keep logs and has no interest in revealing my details.
> As opposed to Rogers, Bell, Shaw, etc who would turn over my records in a heartbeat.


It is known that some VPNs are selling data. 
I'm not claiming Nord does, they seem reputable, but I don't know about any third party audits.
I do know that Nord has been hacked in the past.

You don't know that the third party is not keeping logs.
You don't know if an intelligence service is monitoring.
In Russia you can only use "approved VPN services" I'm sure that means they're being tracked by Russian intelligence.

I know that Rogers & friends will turn over the records in a heartbeat.
I do know that my ISP (Teksavvy) fought to keep customer records private.

If you're using a VPN for privacy and security, I think you're fooling yourself.

If you're trying to avoid region locked content, that might work, but arguably you're violating the TOS, and therefore copyright, of the site that you're accessing. Oh, and don't start the "streaming isn't making a copy", because it absolutely IS.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

cainvest said:


> He goes Jargey, lets use mailing a regular letter as an example.
> 
> Regular mail ...
> 
> ...


thanks cain...makes enough sense for me to know i dont want or need it


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> thanks cain...makes enough sense for me to know i dont want or need it


I sort of decided the same. But I did subscribe to free version of Windscribe - It is Toronto based. You get 50Gb per month at no cost. Limited number of countries, but enough. I use it occasionally to make it look like I am in a different place. Mainly so I can receive TV broadcasts that might be geo locked where I am.

BTW - Welcome back


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I use it to avoid hearing from my ISP when obtaining things on the high seas. 

Some legitimate uses can be to spoof your location when shopping for things like airfare, as pricing can be strongly dependent on your location.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> So the entire point of VPN being ...
> 
> It looks like, to Canada Post, you only send letters to 456 virtual street Chicago, IL, USA.
> The final recipients of every letter you send all think they came from 456 virtual street Chicago, IL, USA.
> ...


Most good VPN service add a layer of encryption as well

Regular

Most of the time it's like sending post cards that anyone can easily read if they want to
Some is scrambled to look like gibberish that can be unscrambled by the recipient such as online banking
VPN

All the information you put on the postcard is scrambled to look like gibberish
All that information is then unscrambled at the VPN server (Chicago)
The point is that if someone is snooping your information between you and Chicago it will be unreadable. They could still try to snoop between Chicago and the final recipient, but this avoids bad actors with control of local equipment targeting local traffic

DNS server is another topic. You should always just go manually change your DNS settings away from the default because it's very easy and free. Certain bad actors manipulate and track the default DNS servers especially in certain countries


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Most good VPN service add a layer of encryption as well
> 
> Regular
> 
> ...


Most websites are enryped (ie the envelope). Google downranks unencrypted websites.
Look at your open tabs, how many of those sites are unencrypted?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> If you're using a VPN for privacy and security, I think you're fooling yourself.


It's like locking your door or anything else. I could say "dO yOu tHink LoCking YoUr DoOr MaKeS YUo sAFe pUnk?" Hah I can just use a crowbar

Just like anything else a layer of security and privacy is just that. It can always be breached with additional effort but busting down a door or opening a letter is also much different than walking though a wide open door or reading an open post card



MrMatt said:


> If you're trying to avoid region locked content, that might work, but arguably you're violating the TOS, and therefore copyright, of the site that you're accessing. Oh, and don't start the "streaming isn't making a copy", because it absolutely IS.


A lot of sports seem to be region locked. CBC streams HNIC and the Olympics etc to Canadian devices but not to devices outside the country. So a soldier in Afghanistan or a traveler in RandomCounty has no option to watch hockey or whatever geo locked sport in RandomCountry that doesn't even watch hockey

CBC, and many other broadcasters around the world, stream for free. For example no service in Canada streams the Dakar rally because most Canadians have never heard of it. In certain countries every YouTube video with music is blocked because the music is copywritten and they read the rules. Who wants that BS? Nobody but lawyers

You may not even know what part of the internet you're missing if it's been blocked or filtered out by your ISP, government, lawyers, or search engine etc. The whole region lock on sports was setup before the internet and globalization and makes zero sense today.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> Most good VPN service add a layer of encryption as well


https is already encrypted, almost nobody uses plain http anymore so VPN encryption isn't really needed.



m3s said:


> DNS server is another topic. You should always just go manually change your DNS settings away from the default because it's very easy and free. Certain bad actors manipulate and track the default DNS servers especially in certain countries


I don't see an issue with your ISP's DNS at home but if you're away on public Wifi, I guess you could change it. Of course I wouldn't be doing anything "secure" over public wifi anyways.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Most websites are enryped (ie the envelope). Google downranks unencrypted websites.
> Look at your open tabs, how many of those sites are unencrypted?


Your email

Your DNS

Your location

I can tell a lot about you from those three wide open doors


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Your email
> 
> Your DNS
> 
> ...


My email access to is over HTTPS or POP/TLS. 
DNS, Yes, they know the server I'm contacting. This is why governments are trying to block DNS over HTTPS.

You do realize that the VPN provider has all this information. 
You're just changing who you're trusting. That's my point, you're trusting X-VPN, and you don't really know who that is. Many VPNs are really just resellers.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> In Russia you can only use "approved VPN services" I'm sure that means they're being tracked by Russian intelligence.


So you're saying Russia doesn't like "unapproved VPN services" Why do you think that is?

NATO soldiers on the Russian border are instructed to use a VPN service on all their devices. You can google some of the things that happened to those who didn't. For people living in China or other authoritative regimes, a VPN service is the only way to access much of the internet. China and Russia want to create their own segregated internet so VPNs don't work anymore

You can say a locked door can be defeated.. it still has a purpose. People still lock things in a safe behind the locked door. A VPN clouds the address to the door.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> So you're saying Russia doesn't like "unapproved VPN services" Why do you think that is?
> 
> NATO soldiers on the Russian border are instructed to use a VPN service on all their devices. You can google some of the things that happened to those who didn't. For people living in China or other authoritative regimes, a VPN service is the only way to access much of the internet. China and Russia want to create their own segregated internet so VPNs don't work anymore
> 
> You can say a locked door can be defeated.. it still has a purpose. People still lock things in a safe behind the locked door. A VPN clouds the address to the door.


I think the reason Russia doesn't like "unapproved VPN services" is because they've infiltrated all the approved ones. 

Which is exactly my point. You need to have a VPN service you can trust. They must also be secure. 

Do you have any data that indicates any particular VPN service is both secure and trustworthy?
There is data to suggest some VPN services should not be trusted for privacy.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Anyone looked at Brave browser? It apparently does some of what vpns do. Also has built in ad blocking and security.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Just thought I'd raise this.
If you're using a VPN for privacy, I think you're fooling yourself.









VPN with 'strict no-logs policy' exposed millions of user log files including account passwords


An unprotected database belonging to the VPN service UFO VPN was exposed online for more than two weeks. Contained within the database were more than 20 million logs including user passwords stored in plain text.




betanews.com






"No Logs"
Then when the logs were posted it took 2 weeks for them to hide them.

I have no idea how they would have even gotten passwords, that's nuts.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mozilla (Firefox) is promoting their VPN service. I have never used VPN before except a long time ago with work laptops when away from the office.

Any techie gurus have comments on Mozilla's offering?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I would say Mozilla is one of the must trustworthy organizations out there.

They are also all open source, so any tech minded people can go see exactly what code is being run.
https://github.com/mozilla-services/guardian-vpn-windows


They're also pushing some of the privacy standards.
Firefox DNS-over-HTTPS | Firefox Help
FYI, that got them into trouble with some governments, because they like to be able to snoop your network traffic.


Firefox DNS-over-HTTPS | Firefox Help.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Just to revive this thread.
I've started using Brave occasionally. They have a Tor session available in the desktop version, which is an alternative not quite VPN solution to privacy.
Very easy to use.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

My better half had issues watching BBC with ExpressVPN. The problems started in August and are still not resolved. Luckily the subscription has expired and she is using Sharksurf. So far so good. It's easy to use and it's very inexpensive compared to ExpressVPN. It's a new VPN services and at the current price it's worth a flyer.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I use Private Internet Access. No real complaints.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> I use Private Internet Access. No real complaints.


This one?








Private Internet Access: The #1 Best VPN Service For 10+ Years


PIA VPN is 2022's top-rated VPN service – with ultra-fast speeds, worldwide streaming servers, and 100% open-source software. Try PIA risk free for 30 days.




www.privateinternetaccess.com





Does it work well for using bittorrent?


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

I use SharkSurf. I switched from ExpressVPN because they have had issues with UK servers since August. 
Here is a PCMag review


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## estersxa (Nov 2, 2020)

nord vpn, ivacy


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

james4beach said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ditto, and yes.


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