# Need advice for my parents...



## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

Hey everyone,


I wanted to get some outside opinions on what to do about my parents' financial situation. Some simple facts:

- I'm 24, living at home making 55k/year (plan to move out in ~9 months, just paid off my OSAP)
- 2 siblings (27 y/o sister working 20-ish hours a work, 17 y/o brother working 15-ish hours a work)
- Both parents live at home, married, all that good stuff


To put a long history lesson short, my parents are very bad with money. They immigrated to Canada in 1991 and didn't know much of anything, and were introduced to credit. Shortly after, their credit was destroyed. They still have plenty of debts from the 90's that they haven't paid off and don't plan to. Neither of them have careers or education, they've worked odd-jobs over the years (mother mainly in factories and cleaning, father mainly doing personal support work and also many FAILED entrepreneurial endeavors). We've always struggled financially and never had the finer things in life. They've never had a car newer than 10 years old, never been on a vacation, never done anything. I even recall seeing their tax returns a few years ago and seeing that they each made $18k/year in 2010. It's really rough and always has been. My father has always been entrepreneurial, like his father, except neither of them are actually good at it. His businesses always fail, whether it's opening a nightclub, or starting a magazine company, or a printing company, or his current idea, opening a restaurant.

The restaurant is in a shady location and they don't get much sales at all. I'm talking like 5 customers _a day_. It opened about 2 months ago and it's not working out at all. They own the home we live in, which we just moved to a year ago. Before that we lived in another home, which they sold to buy this one. They made 100k in equity and spent 70k of it opening this restaurant, while the other 30k went to home renovations for this house. They did this off a whim with little planning and no idea how to operate a restaurant, so essentially 70k has been flushed down the toilet. 

Ever since I was 17 when I got my first job, I've been helping pay bills. Whether it was the home phone, the internet, the electricity bill, etc. But now that I'm 24 and making good money, they expect even more from me. It's as if they think I'm supposed to fund their stupid decisions and support them, like I don't have my own life to start living. The problem I have with the is that they don't need my money because they're just in a tight situation temporarily, they need it because they put themselves INTO this situation with horrible decision making. 

They have no savings. No retirement. Nothing. Literally nothing. They had to borrow money from our neighbor to pay rent for the restaurant this month. They can barely make mortgage payments, which my sister pays most of. They even owe me $5k that I let them borrow to help open the restaurant (I didn't give them the 5k for the restaurant, I gave it to them for my grandfather's funeral, and they turned around and used it for the restaurant instead). 

I spoke to my mother about this and she doesn't seem to be very fearful. She has a naive and optimistic mentality of "everything will be ok" and "this is how it's always been, we've always struggled and had no money". But what frustrates me is that they've been in this country for 25 years and have NOTHING to show for it. They haven't learned anything, they don't want to pay their old debts, they don't save, they don't invest, they don't do anything but live paycheck to paycheck behind my dad's horrible business ideas. My friend put it into good perspective when he told me, "They're sick. They're financially sick." 


So basically, I wanted to know what people think is the best way for me to go about this. I'm going to move out soon, but that's not going to stop them from asking for money. I worry that they'll have nothing and won't be able to retire in this house. My father is 56 and my mother is 53. Again, they have NO SAVINGS and NO RETIREMENT. No investments. No assets except a house they can barely afford, and an atrociously bad restaurant. What can I do to put myself in the best position? What can I tell them? What are their options? Will CPP and OAS be enough? I know they're going to start mooching off my younger brother any time now, and I don't want him to go through the same stresses of paying house bills at 17 like I did when I was his age. And it would be even harder to watch out for him if I move out (I'd be moving out with my long-time girlfriend). I'd feel like I'm leaving him behind in this financial mess of a house. My sister is not going to be leaving anytime soon, she's a bit of a recluse and just goes along with whatever they need, giving them money when they ask. But it's not okay. I'm worried about where they'll be in 10, 15 years when they can't work anymore.


Any feedback or input would be appreciated. Thanks guys.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Ever hear the expression, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"?

There is nothing you can do to change someone else, the decision has to come from them.

Of course, you are also enabling them to keep repeating mistakes at the same time. If you are 24 and making 55k/year, you shouldn't be living at home, you should have moved out a while ago. While you're living at home, I see no issue with making a significant contribution, you aren't entitled to be a freeloader anymore, neither is your sister. Your brother is still a minor, so that's different, but he'll soon turn 18.

Once you move out, you may discover why your parents don't have new cars, fancy houses, lots of toys etc. $55k may sound like a lot of money, but it really isn't. Once you move out, you probably won't have any money to give/lend them, so your problem, in that respect, will be solved. $55k, when you're living at home, is a lot of money. 

Most likely your parents will be fine. They know what it's like to be poor and how to survive being poor. They somehow managed to raise 3 kids and buy a house with an income below the poverty line. Instead of criticizing them, maybe you need to understand them better. Once you are on your own, you may gain better insight and some respect for them.

While they may not be successful, at least they are trying. That's more than I can say for many people. They haven't given up and aren't living off the system...sounds like they may be more successful than you realize.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

It sounds like they believe that the kids = their retirement fund. That's not right, just as it isn't right when it's the other way around and the kids live off parents. You and your siblings need a life and to establish your own families. You need to save for your house, kids' education, your own retirement. Your younger brother needs an education. 

So... It's not going to be pretty but you need to lay your cards on the table. An honest and serious talk is in order. You may want to talk to your older sister and to your bother before you talk to your parents. What is needed seems quite straightforward:

- Quit stupid enterprises. Try to rescue as much as possible of the $70K.
- Your dad needs to try and find a job. Won't be easy but if he is not fussy then there will be something out there he can do.
- Talk to an independent financial adviser about debts, etc... Establish objectives and carefully plan the path forward; they don't have any time to lose.

You and your sister need to move out and wean them off financial support. Make it very clear how much you will provide and establish a firm deadline, e.g. 1 year. 

The talk will be very painful but once they realize that they have no choice but to put their affairs in order and start relying on themselves, their lives will actually improve. 

Just my opinion...


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

Just a Guy said:


> Ever hear the expression, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"?
> 
> There is nothing you can do to change someone else, the decision has to come from them.
> 
> ...


I see what you're saying, but the two parts I bolded seem somewhat hypocritical. How can I support them with money (that they are financially irresponsible with), and yet not enable them? That's exactly what I've been doing and want to stop doing. They handle their finances childishly is the problem.

I also think it's important to note that a big part of our family's struggles is my dad's pride and inability to work a regular job. Everything he does _has_ to be entrepreneurial. He can never put his pride to the side for more than a a year working a regular job before he quits and tries to open a nightclub in a shady area of the inner city. I don't see that as successful, I see it has financially negligent and repeated poor decision making. They definitely haven't given up and have achieved buying a house after 15 years of moving here, but they threw that away by blowing the equity on yet another horrible financial decision. It's to the point where me and my sister were paying bills and buying groceries for the family while my mother worked and my father sat at home for months and months and months on end, plotting his ned horrible business venture. It's not okay and I can't call it success. 

My dilemma is pulling the plug on helping them financially if it's going to cripple them. Obviously I don't want my parents to suffer, and I would love to help them later on in my life and allow them to enjoy some things in life that they've never had. But it's not healthy to be doing what they're still doing today. They haven't learned. And I just want to make sure they won't sink when they choose to retire.

It's alarming that their 24 year old son has thought more about their retirement than they have. That's just down right bad. That's what I'm getting at. 

But like you said, you can lead a horse to water.....


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

mordko said:


> *It sounds like they believe that the kids = their retirement fund.* That's not right, just as it isn't right when it's the other way around and the kids live off parents. You and your siblings need a life and to establish your own families. You need to save for your house, kids' education, your own retirement. Your younger brother needs an education.
> 
> So... It's not going to be pretty but you need to lay your cards on the table. An honest and serious talk is in order. You may want to talk to your older sister and to your bother before you talk to your parents. What is needed seems quite straightforward:
> 
> ...


I've had somewhat of a talk with my mother and like I mentioned, she doesn't seem too worried or phased by the thought of having no retirement savings. She thinks CPP and OAS will have her living modestly (like she's always lived). Just not sure how accurate her prediction is. Is a strictly CPP/OAS retirement income even possible to pay a $1300 mortgage with?

As for my sister, I can definitely assure she isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Which just makes it that much harder. It's like it's me against everyone in terms of trying to straighten out my parents. My sister is a comfortable enabler with no future prospect of moving out in sight.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Then you will have to become the pariah in the family to kickstart a change, whatever that may be. It is going to be tough and risk a 'break' for some time, but I think you have to move out, get a place of your own, and NOT contribute any more to their expenses. Somewhere along the line, perhaps 10 years from now, there may be a need to contribute something back to keep them from having to use the Food Bank, but they need to be weaned off financial support now...even if they lose everything in the process. I see no alternative other than 'tough love'. Same dilemma a parent finds themselves sometimes with a delinquent child/young adult.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

They won't get full OAS; it will be pro-rated based on how much time they spent in the country. Full OAS is like $500/month per person; your parents might be getting half that amount. CPP depends on earnings as well as time spent working in Canada and paying into CPP. Based on what you are telling me, they will be getting very little. You can estimate CPP/OAS income using this website: https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/retirement-income-calculator.html. It won't be possible to pay off $1300/month mortgage and live off their pension and OAS.

If your sister doesn't want a life outside her parents' home... It's her business. Have you talked to your brother? What does he want? These days you need education to have a future; does not have to be university, but he needs something. 

I would talk to your father and mother formally - both of them, and would try to plan that talk, back it up with numbers on OAS and CPP, suggest a meeting with an independent financial advisor. Discuss your brother's future. And I would make it very clear that you will end your financial commitment within a fixed period of time. That's the key message. In the end, if they want to rely on "everything will turn out OK"... well - it's their life. You and your brother owe it to yourselves and your future families to severe the cord. 

Why are you waiting 9 months to move out?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

DollaWine said:


> I see what you're saying, but the two parts I bolded seem somewhat hypocritical. How can I support them with money (that they are financially irresponsible with), and yet not enable them? That's exactly what I've been doing and want to stop doing. They handle their finances childishly is the problem.
> 
> I also think it's important to note that a big part of our family's struggles is my dad's pride and inability to work a regular job. Everything he does _has_ to be entrepreneurial.


The reason it's not hypocritical is, while you are living there, you are also a burden. You eat food, you use electricity, you use water, you have wear and tear on the building that wouldn't occur if you weren't there... until you've lived on your own I doubt you'll appreciate how much work it is to run a house, take care of yourself, and pay all the bills.

Laundry doesn't wash itself, fridges don't fill themselves, food doesn't cook itself, bathrooms don't clean themselves, etc. Many kids are shocked at how much work is being done that they never realized.

As for your dad, you've obviously never been self employed. Let me tell you, as a self employed person, after a while of running things, you become unemployable. To run a company, you have to have a certain personality, you need to run things, to make decisions, to be in charge...while these are all great traits to have, no company wants hat in an employee. A good employee is not the alpha dog, it's the cog in the machine. Two alpha dogs throw a wrench in the works.

Let me give you an example, one of my companies is a marketing one. I routinely meet with CEOs of companies, I'm the expert who often tells them why their "ideas" are wrong. Now imagine how well that would go over if I were some jr. marketing guy in a small division of a big corporation? I'd be fired the second I opened my mouth (btw, I've seen this in many companies who are my clients). 

While the CEOs love me as an advisor, they'd hate me in their organization which relies on hierarchy.

I understand your concerns, I really do, and I'm not saying they're unfounded however, I'm also saying, at 24, there are a lot of things you don't understand about how the world works (don't worry, you're not alone, I too was 24 once and thought the same way). You need to open your mind and keep learning, the world is a lot more complicated than you think.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

mordko said:


> They won't get full OAS; it will be pro-rated based on how much time they spent in the country. Full OAS is like $500/month per person; your parents might be getting half that amount. CPP depends on earnings as well as time spent working in Canada and paying into CPP. Based on what you are telling me, they will be getting very little. You can estimate CPP/OAS income using this website: https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/retirement-income-calculator.html. It won't be possible to pay off $1300/month mortgage and live off their pension and OAS.
> 
> If your sister doesn't want a life outside her parents' home... It's her business. Have you talked to your brother? What does he want? These days you need education to have a future; does not have to be university, but he needs something.
> 
> ...


I'll definitely show them figures from CPP and OAS, thank you. And my brother is very bright and wants to study computer networking in either college or university. Like me and my sister, he has no money saved for college, so he'll rely on OSAP. I'm definitely going to make sure to talk to him about the importance of saving and paying back that debt. As for your last part, I'm in the tail end of saving up a nice emergency fund for some peace of mind when I leave. I'd rather not struggle and sleep on the floor or eat ramen noodles because I only had enough for first and last. I understand that the longer I'm here the more strain it will cause between me and my parents' mess, but I can bear it just a little longer. I don't have any issues with my parents personally, we get along fine, no arguing or anything of that sort. My issue with them is strictly financial. I work at a start-up company that, to be honest, is probably about to fail within ~3 months. But I have interviews lined up for other positions in my field that should be pay as well if not slightly better. Also waiting on my girlfriend to get more stable financially as she works 3 part time jobs with varying hours. She should have a more solid schedule in the coming months. She's a teacher and as we all know, it's rough to find work in that field right now. But yes I do realize 9 months is probably overkill. I'm going to talk to her about shooting for 3-6 months to move in together.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

Just a Guy said:


> *The reason it's not hypocritical is, while you are living there, you are also a burden. You eat food, you use electricity, you use water, you have wear and tear on the building that wouldn't occur if you weren't there... until you've lived on your own I doubt you'll appreciate how much work it is to run a house, take care of yourself, and pay all the bills.
> 
> Laundry doesn't wash itself, fridges don't fill themselves, food doesn't cook itself, bathrooms don't clean themselves, etc. Many kids are shocked at how much work is being done that they never realized.*
> 
> ...



Again I get what you're saying, but the bolded part is what I'm not sure you're understanding. Not to sound egotistical, but if if I moved, the house wouldn't function nearly as well. I'm quite the opposite of a burden. I _do_ do the laundry. I _do_ pay the electricity. I _do_ clean, pay multiple bills, buy the groceries and I cook for my siblings and I, drive my brother to and from work, etc. They literally do not do those "parental things" anymore, they leave early in the morning and come home at night from their restaurant.

And that would be perfectly fine, by no means am I saying I wish they were here to coddle me, because I don't. But what makes it _not_ perfectly fine is that the restaurant isn't working, like his other dozen business ideas. It's literally my sister and I maintaining the household. They're really never here and they can't afford to pay _any_ bills. It's basically to the point that they come here to sleep, and then leave. It's as if my sister and I own the house and THEY are the children. THAT'S what makes this so strange and wrong.

You may say to yourself "well, if you have the whole house to yourselves and you pay all the bills, then what's the problem? It's as if you own a home". The problem is that if my sister and I were to stop doing this, how would they survive? That's the part that is extremely troubling. The fact that we shouldn't need to be doing this for our parents to avoid homelessness.

Like I said, they had to borrow money from a neighbor to pay rent. Hell I even bought my dad a truck. Our parents don't do anything for us because we hardly ever see them, and we pay the bills. My dad literally told us last week to "Treat this house like we own it, and take care of it", and that's what we do. Nothing is handed to us, we've paid bills for them since we were teenagers. I just wanted to make it clear that by no means am I a child sitting at home with no idea what it takes to maintain a home. I've been helping maintain the home since I was 16 because my father was a stay-at-home dad making no money. 

As for the self-employed part, I have been (and still am, part-time) self-employed. But I do work full-time, and I'm fine at both. At what point is he supposed to throw in the towel and accept that self-employment just doesn't work for him and that he's not taking care of his family? Are we just supposed to accept that and watch my mother struggle because he can't work a regular job because of his "inner burning passion to be his own boss"? For how long? At some point, it needs to be accepted that it doesn't work. It didn't work 25 years ago and it's not working today. And it's affecting his family in a major way because of it. At some point he needs to own that, because he's been trying to stick a round peg in a square hole for a quarter-century and I can't support that anymore.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Since they are not there, then it basically is your house, you are the one using it, not them so, as I said, you should be paying for it. When you move out on will be paying somewhere else. I think you are o caught up in being judgemental that you refuse to look at things from other sides. 

You may see things differently when your older. I know my opinion of my parents changed, there was a lot more to their lives than I understood at the time. 

By the way, I never said inner burning to be his own boss, I said being your own boss for a long time renders you unemployable. Something I know from experience. When I got into an accident I couldn't work for two years. I also looked for jobs, and couldn't get hired. It wasn't a choice, it was the reality of the situation. From that experience, many people I'm sure judged me for being too lazy to get a job, I know my inlaws did, they had no idea of the truth. I learned to invest because I had no other options.

It's easy to judge others, but they are the ones living the life. They know their reality, you don't. Hey got you to this point, and seem to have raised three kids who won't be a burden to society, and they've never beeen one either...of course you can still choose to see them as failures, but they may be doing the best they can with what they have.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

If there is one thing you can learn from CMF, it is the power of a budget. Put together a complete budget for the family enterprise. Then sit down with everyone and review the trouble spots. You will be unpopular. But at least then you will have a common language to deal with the family issues. Tell them it is the last thing you are doing for the family before moving out.

Wait for your GF to have a steady job before moving out. It does not have to be in teaching.


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## hboy54 (Sep 16, 2016)

The thread title is "need advice for parents" but I think all we can and should offer is advice for you. If they want advice, they can ask for it themselves.

It has been my lifelong experience that people are going to do what they are going to do regardless of facts, advice, truth or anything else. So as much as it pains you to watch them live their lives, there is little you can or should do about them.

What you can and should do is work on you. Move out, have a successful career, marry etc. Such that in 20 or 30 years when physical frailty overcomes your parents, you will be in a position to ease the last few years. Like on an airplane, you first have to get the oxygen mask on you, not the baby, because you cannot take care of the baby if you are incapacitated. In the long run, you can best help others from a position of strength.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

I'll agree with most of what has been said here.

If the situation is as dire as you suggest, Dolla, then I think after all these years of artificial life support, your parents must be allowed to crash and burn. Only then will reality set in and will there be any prospect for them taking more responsibility for themselves.

In terms of moving out, yes, I would do so and soon. Moreover, I would give serious consideration to moving out of easy reach. Another province would perhaps provide a suitable buffer.


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## MrsPartridge (May 15, 2016)

There are options for your parents. To their credit, they are hard working but they need to get rid of the restaurant.


1. They can work as a superintendent couple. That means they get a free apartment plus a salary. Brother and sister move in with them and you rent the house or move out and rent it to a family. Sister can pay a bit for room and board. Altogether, they'll have much more money coming in. If they can manage this, pay off the mortgage on the house so when they're 65, with OAS (and GIS maybe?), they can manage their expenses.

2. If not that idea, then sell the house, and buy another with a legal apartment. They live in one part of the house while renting out the other.


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## carol palmer (Jul 12, 2016)

MrsPartridge said:


> There are options for your parents. To their credit, they are hard working but they need to get rid of the restaurant.
> 
> 
> 1. They can work as a superintendent couple. That means they get a free apartment plus a salary. Brother and sister move in with them and you rent the house or move out and rent it to a family. Sister can pay a bit for room and board. Altogether, they'll have much more money coming in. If they can manage this, pay off the mortgage on the house so when they're 65, with OAS (and GIS maybe?), they can manage their expenses.
> ...


I totally agree with you....


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrsPartridge said:


> There are options for your parents. To their credit, they are hard working but they need to get rid of the restaurant.
> 
> 
> 1. They can work as a superintendent couple. That means they get a free apartment plus a salary. Brother and sister move in with them and you rent the house or move out and rent it to a family. Sister can pay a bit for room and board. Altogether, they'll have much more money coming in. If they can manage this, pay off the mortgage on the house so when they're 65, with OAS (and GIS maybe?), they can manage their expenses.
> ...


 ... do they have "superintendent" skills? Not as simple or even easy to implement as suggested but it's an idea.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

DollaWine said:


> I've had somewhat of a talk with my mother and like I mentioned, she doesn't seem too worried or phased by the thought of having no retirement savings. She thinks CPP and OAS will have her living modestly (like she's always lived). Just not sure *how accurate her prediction is. Is a strictly CPP/OAS retirement income even possible to pay a $1300 mortgage with?*


No, it just won't be enough unfortunately, because other costs have to be included as well, (property taxes etc), will steadily rise each year and quickly surpass their retirement income, leaving them with a MONTHLY SHORTFALL. If they collect the average CPP (even at age 60-65) depending on their CPP contributions, and with OAS, they will be lucky to collect $1000+ a month from both gov't pensions. 

I know that as that's pretty much what I'm collecting and I have no mortgage.

Don't forget that it's not just a $1300 mortgage, there are property taxes, somewheres between ($300 and $400 per month) depending on their current assessment, heating costs as high as $120 per month in the coldest months of the winter, electricty costs($80+ per month which are also constantly rising about every 6 months or so ( thanks to the mismanagement of the Ontario Wynne gov't), fire insurance costs, some maintenance, telephone and other minor expenses

*+ food, even at the bare minimum $200 to $300 a month.you still need food to live..and food isn't going to get any cheaper either.*

With a $1300 mortgage + another $600 to $700 more they will need for all the utilities, repairs and incidentals, they need a combined NET income of at least $2500 per month ($30,000 per year) because the
mortgage alone will be $15,600 per year, and there could also be income taxes they have to pay in their senior years,
(but not much). 

In summary, not sure how much your parents can collect in CPP/OAS and even GIS..but don't forget that the GIS is based on Combined income for a married couple and tapers off rather rapidly after a income cap..at $32k combined income for the couple, at that income level, the GIS tapers off to just 0.23c!

*combined income* ................................*OAS+GIS *......... * GIS*
$20,592.00 - $20,639.99.........$246.23.......*$824.76*.......*$246.23*
$25,776.00 - $25,823.99.........$200.03.......*$778.56*...... *$138.23*
$30,960.00 - $31,007.99........ $200.03...... *$778.56.*..... *$30.23*
$32,400.00 - $32,447.99.........$200.03.......*$778.56*.......*$0.23*
https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/old-age-security/payments/tab4-26.html


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## KevinWaterloo (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't respond to a lot of threads but this one caught my attention.

I have a few thoughts of on this. DollaWine, the first and biggest one is that I am really impressed that you seem to have started a solid career and seem to be both financially and emotionally mature. That is worth being proud of especially because it was "in spite of not because of" your parents example. You apparently haven't blown your money on electronics, toys, or cars. 

My second thought is that life can be tough and you need to start worrying about yourself. Your salary is a great start, but it will still be difficult to live on that salary yourself in Toronto while trying to accumulate some savings. It would be one thing if your parents were sick and/or had another unexpected short term financial issue, but that clearly isn't the case. I don't believe it should be the children's responsibility to financially support parents if they are physically capable of working for themselves. Ever.
I was fortunate enough to have parents that taught me how to really understand the value of money which is pretty lacking in today's world. 

I like the idea of coming up with a real budget and numbers and showing that to your parents. Meet with your siblings fist and give them the opportunity to get on-board. Try to help your parents make the right decisions as much as possible and let them know you really care. But let them know that it is time for you to live your own life and that you want to work hard to have a higher quality of life than you had. Maybe let them know that you'd help financially for a fixed and communicated amount of time so that your dad can find a regular job. But then cut them off and let them fail since it is really their responsibility.


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## RussT (Jul 11, 2016)

+1 KevinWaterloo...

OP needs to put limits (time and dollar amount) on continued support.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

Thanks for all the feedback, advice and hope everyone.

I've recently spoken to my mother again, and this time rather than ignoring the shaky situation and maintaining optimism, she crumbled (literally to tears in my arms). She knows it's not working and she knows this whole restaurant thing was a mistake. She's tried, stressed and worn down. 

They're going to try to sell the restaurant and hope to get maybe $50k back from their $70k investment. Not sure if that's realistic/possible or if that's an understatement, but that's what she said. Not sure what types of costs and fees would eat into that. 

So I think they've pretty much settled into reality that this restaurant needs to stop ASAP. They've made $2,800 in the 3 months it's been open. They need to sell, recoup as much as they can and restructure. My concern now is, what work can my mother do? My father is a PSW (probably made around $15/hour before quitting to start yet another entrepreneurial endevour). It's not a lot, but again, *we've lived our entire lives with close to nothing*. So they're already used to it, there's no worry of a downgrade in lifestyle. In 25 years they've never been on a vacation, never had a car newer than 10 years old, etc. But my mom, her work experience is all cleaning hotels/buildings, working on factory lines and some daycare work. She stressed that she physically can't go back to a factory type of environment (she's had knee surgery), she's 53, and I have no interest in seeing her go back to a factory either. Maybe childcare-related work would be best for her. 

I will crunch some numbers and show them the hard facts about CPP/OAS, as well as really hammer home and importance of selling the business ASAP.


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