# revolution650 planters vending machine - scam??



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

i happened to attend a business seminar yesterday. it was hosted by a company called revolution650 who sells franchisees/distributionships for peanut vending machines. i must say, was i impressed!!! although i have not attended a lot of such presentations, i can still confidently say that this will be one of the top. it was a great package put together. they roped in a celebrity, alan frew, to briefly speak, they also gave away a few copies of his book "the action sandwich" in the end. they also threw in a charity angle by involving the cause of canadian fallen fire fighters.

this was briefly how the evening went. they invited about 75 people/couples to sheraton. they broke this group into 3 as the people trickled in, briefly introduced themselves and gave a brief demo of the vending machine and got us seated. they kicked off the presentation, presented the business plan demonstrating about 170% returns on a conservative note etc. then the invited the guest speaker alan to say a few words. he spoke about entrepreneurship and notion of success in general. how people need to take action to achieve their dreams and how this great opportunity has come across their lives. how they need to overcome their fears and lethargy to succeed etc etc. this dramatically changed the mood of the audience from apprehensions of the business and the investments into confidence that this was their great big chance to earn a second source of residual income with very low investment. then they allowed only 15 minutes to grab dinner from a buffet. this was followed by a small talk by their vice president about the benefits of self employment/small business ownership and how they can write off stuff and how they can obtain credit for starting the business. then they made us fill out information forms so they can gather our information to "select a few eligible" distributors while alan crooned a couple of songs. finally, we were made to hand out the forms, book a second meeting and get our free copies of the book signed by alan.

unless someone read between the lines, it is very difficult to call the ruse. i began to suspect planters had nothing to do with this scheme at all. it could have been anything. from condoms to candies to anything on the planet.

here is why i think its a scam. they are selling a simple vending machine for about a 1000 bucks. this is a small manual machine weighing about 20 pounds which accepts only toonies. i checked the costs of similar candy vending machines online and they cost about a 100 bucks. to get a distribution, one needs to buy a minimum of 9 machines and an annual membership from their company for another 1000 bucks (this to enable them to keep track of where the machines are being put and for distributors to order peanuts and other merchandise). so a minimum of 10,000 bucks. the machine dispenses 4 ounces of nuts for a toonie. anyways, what they are doing is basically putting a great show together, motivating people to get involved in the business. even if they get 10 suckers, they get a 100k on one evening. if i were interested, why do i even need to talk to them. i could buy vending machines from any company for 100 bucks, 10 machines for 1 grand, a big package of planters nuts from any retailer and i am ready to go. since 10k is not a big amount for starting any they are basically looking at charging a huge premium for their machines and so called membership.

shouldn't the government do something about such scams/businesses to help unsuspecting individuals???

or does anybody here think there is more to this and it is a legitimate business? am i missing something here??


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Sounds like all the hallmarks of a typical scam.
Are you sure there wasn't an element of MLM involved as well?
That is the only feature missing, otherwise it looks, moves and quacks are like a classical scam.
Say what, if this is returning 170% annually, the US govt. should invest in this.
They can wipe out their $10 Trillion debt within a few years.


----------



## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

I attended a similar seminar, but it was for coffee machines. Guess who the guest celebrity was? ........ Alan Frew who was also promoting his book.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi Rookie, thanks for starting this thread. I love it! Has google turned up anything on this outfit?



rookie said:


> here is why i think its a scam. they are selling a simple vending machine for about a 1000 bucks. this is a small manual machine weighing about 20 pounds which accepts only toonies. i checked the costs of similar candy vending machines online and they cost about a 100 bucks. to get a distribution, one needs to buy a minimum of 9 machines and an annual membership from their company for another 1000 bucks (this to enable them to keep track of where the machines are being put and for distributors to order peanuts and other merchandise). so a minimum of 10,000 bucks. ??


LOL! Ahhh the power of math. My first question was 'why should I pay $1000 for a $100 machine?' lol I love your calculations and am glad you didn't give them anything. Did they get any contact info from you? They may spam you. I normally do not give out contact info or name, much less to this type of "seminar".



rookie said:


> shouldn't the government do something about such scams/businesses to help unsuspecting individuals?????


100% agreed. A good start would be to tell CBC Marketplace and maybe CTV W5. There are victims in the making here. Just try and contact these types of outfits when there is a problem or you want your money back. Erica Johnson to the rescue. That's about the best we'll be able to do, I think. These shows will approach ministers in parking lots anyway.



rookie said:


> or does anybody here think there is more to this and it is a legitimate business? am i missing something here??


No, I think you nailed it. I'm far from being impressed with this outfit. There are so many of these seminars that tend to book in centers near the airport, hotels and such. They do this everywhere, not just in your city. They travel from one to the next, signing up suckers and skip town as soon as the event is over. I'm sure they pay those celebrities well to get them to travel around like that, so they need to recover these costs. The amount of travel and meals and hotels involved suggests to me that there are lots of victims out there ready and it's probably like shooting fish in a barrel. Hopefully no one here at CMF has been suckered in by any of these outfits.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

http://www.alanfrew.com/publicspeaking.aspx

actually you can hire him for any occasion to speak about anything you want. one thing he mentioned was that he hired the inventor of the planters vending machine to manage his music company glass tiger. from their website, i could not figure out if this was true. if it was, then he is more involved in this than just a guest speaker.


----------



## Seth (Aug 16, 2010)

The misses and I attended a Franchise Expo here in Nova Scotia a couple years back. At the expo there was a booth flogging vending machines. They had a 60 minute seminar you could sign up for to attend. 

Those who attended were to recieve a beach cooler backpack with a battery powered radio built in.

Being the frugal devil that I am and actually NEEDING one of these things (we camp every year on a beach and have seen them and lusted over frosty beverages /w rocking FM tunes before) we decided to attend.

It was more like 90 minutes of HARD SELL as opposed to 60 minutes of information... lots of flashy videos and bloated success stories.

When it was all over, those who didn't sign up for the $10,000 program were ostracized for still wanting their free gift.

When I got home, I jumped on Kijiji and within minutes found people selling the exact same machine (after giving up on the program a go and failing) for $2000

My suggestion, find a different business, with less maitenance and more reward.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> 100% agreed. A good start would be to tell CBC Marketplace and maybe CTV W5. There are victims in the making here. Just try and contact these types of outfits when there is a problem or you want your money back. Erica Johnson to the rescue. That's about the best we'll be able to do, I think. These shows will approach ministers in parking lots anyway.


i doubt if we could literally call this scam because:
1) they do not pressurize you to buy anything on the spot
2) their business model is probably similar to getting tiger woods endorse a nike product and sell a 30$ shoe at 300$. they spend some extra money getting celebrities to endorse a product, glamorize it, package it well and present the whole package at a premium. 

i think its bordering near "buyers beware"


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

also, i am sure they can come up with 100 reasons why their vending machines cost that much and why you cannot use just any other candy vending machine. so they have suffecient number of excuses in their defense.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

another important thing they presented was the advantages of running your own business. i do not have the numbers they gave right now, but approximately, they said, you could write off about 10 grand a year. factoring that, you are making close to 0 investment in starting this business. so the catch in what they are saying is, if you are salaried, you are paying 10 grand to the govt anyways. instead of the govt, give it to us and you have a business up and running.

basically, one could come up with any such business idea where you do not have to show any profit, but write off several everyday expenses on the pretext of running a business. i am sure cra has a tight grip on what you can really write off and how much but i am also sure that you can come up with stuff to stick within cra regulations. for example, you can write off 250$ of your monthly gas expense saying you go to your vending locations twice a day to check the stock...


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

rookie said:


> another important thing they presented was the advantages of running your own business. i do not have the numbers they gave right now, but approximately, they said, you could write off about 10 grand a year. factoring that, you are making close to 0 investment in starting this business. so the catch in what they are saying is, if you are salaried, you are paying 10 grand to the govt anyways. instead of the govt, give it to us and you have a business up and running.


How can you write off your salaried (T4) income through business expenses?
Aren't the two entirely unrelated?
Is that possible?



> basically, one could come up with any such business idea where you do not have to show any profit, but write off several everyday expenses on the pretext of running a business. i am sure cra has a tight grip on what you can really write off and how much but i am also sure that you can come up with stuff to stick within cra regulations. for example, you can write off 250$ of your monthly gas expense saying you go to your vending locations twice a day to check the stock...


Isn't that umm...like...tax fraud?


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

not your T4 income, but your everyday expenses like the lease on your car, cell phone, home space for office use etc.

its not legally fraud as long as you have the paperwork to prove that you are running some business. morally, you can call it fraud. but this was one of their sales pitches.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

another of alan frew's quotes:

5% are playing in the band, 5% are watching the band play. the other 90% do not even know that there is a band playing. he cautioned not fall in the 90%. so ironic.


----------



## spirit (May 9, 2009)

*Theft from machine?*

I work in a high school with HUGE vending machines weighing several hundred pounds. Even so our students have managed to tip them and steal the contents. And this is in a highly trafficed area. They wait for a quiet moment and then strike. Lots of loss/damage. And we are a good school with mostly fine students. Finally installed video cameras. So......figure out how anything can be scammed before you buy/invest. At 20 lbs. you can just steal the whole thing!!!!! Easily.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds like another case of buyer beware. There's no law against offering people a crappy deal and convincing them to accept it.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

You could legally deduct the legitimate expenses, but only the fair market value of the machines, not the inflated value you would have to pay the company.

So, they are right in a sense.......but they aren't telling the full story.


----------



## Rico (Jan 27, 2011)

With these seminars I always think to myself "if it's so flippin' great, why are they sharing the idea and not just doing it exclusively themselves?" - if you know what I mean.

Just for fun, I went to Costco.ca and searched "vending" and here's the results:

http://www.costco.ca/Common/Search....e=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-CA

Costco sells bulk chocolate bars, pop, chips - why not just go that route? lol


----------



## Jenniferlaycock (Mar 2, 2011)

Good afternoon everyone!

My name is Jennifer Laycock and I actually serve as the social media manager for the Revolution650 program. One of our team members ran across this discussion and I wanted to take a minute to address a few of your concerns.

While we understand there are (and should) always be questions about whether a business opportunity is a good one or not, I'm a little saddened to see some of the negative words being thrown around in reference to this program, especially when it's so easy to take a few moments to research things to get the answers to your questions.

For example, in the original post, rookie stated: 
"i began to suspect planters had nothing to do with this scheme at all."

If you simply take a moment to go and visit the official Planters Canada web site, you'll see notice right on the front page of their involvement with the Planters Canada program. You'll also find a link to a PDF announcing the creation and expansion of the program.

It's actually quite common for the major food manufacturers to partner up with distribution companies and run programs like this to recruit new distributors. There's nothing unusual or suspicious about it, it's simply part of how the vending industry works.

There's also been some commentary about the supposedly high cost of the machines. One poster stated the machines being sold are only worth around $100 each. Again, research needs to go beyond a simple Google search to accurately make these types of statements. The machines being sold ARE made of the highest quality design and materials and are also made in Canada, not outsourced to cheap labor markets overseas. We believe in keeping jobs here, and that generally means paying higher prices for higher quality.

It's also important to realize that you are not simply buying a machine. You're buying into a brand and an existing business model. One that includes warranties, insurance, training, support and so on. That makes for a very different situation than walking into Costco, buying a machine and loading up a pallet of candy bars...especially for people who have no experience in this industry.

I've been working with this company for nearly a year now and cannot tell you how many times both the general manager and the president have sat down in person or by phone with a new distributor to give them hours worth of input, advice and ideas on how to grow their business. In fact, I've yet to see them turn down a request for advice and assistance from a single vendor in the time I've been working with them. 

It's simply not fair or accurate to represent this as something you can walk into a wholesale store and replicate yourself. There's certainly nothing wrong with starting your own vending business in that manner, but it's important to the bigger picture of how these distributorships differ from truly starting a business on your own. 


As for the "show" of the event, it's important to remember these events serve as an introduction to the business, so of course they want you to enjoy a nice dinner and some good entertainment. That's exactly why they hire someone like Alan Frew who is known as both an entertainer and an inspirational speaker to come in and share his experiences with the crowd...

A final point I'd like to make is about the supposed high-pressure sales. Some of you may find it interesting to learn that you cannot actually sign on to buy machines or become a distributor at these events. They do this for a specific reason...they don't WANT to bring someone on through high pressure sales. At the end of the night, anyone whose interest is sparked can choose to make contact and set up a meeting for another day. 

I should note, the second meeting STILL doesn't allow you to sign up for anything, it's simply a Q&A meeting to go more in depth on how this business runs. It's not until people choose to attend a third meeting that they even have the opportunity to come on board. It's hardly fair to view anything that requires a three step, voluntary meeting process as a "high pressure sales" system.


Is this business for everyone? Certainly not. We all have different ways of working and different environments in which we flourish, but is it fair to a business to make broad sweeping statements and accusations based on one person's observation and a lot of conclusions? No. I would hope the members of this forum would understand the value of due diligence and of taking the time to really research a company, the individuals involved and to understand the full scope of expectations before signing on as part of a new business. 

The management team at Revolution650 are among the most approachable I've ever dealt with as a social media consultant and I'd encourage anyone who has questions or concerns to simply contact them and ask. Due diligence and direct research will give you a far stronger representation of reality than hearsay, assumptions and anecdotal stories.


----------



## rainbow (Mar 28, 2011)

*Scam for sure*

Rookie, thanks for starting this thread. 

I have friends involved into this business, they are very stressful now don't know how to get out of it. 

There have lots of good articles online to explain why this is a scam. Unfortunately my friends didn't do enough research before they sign the contract. I hope people all aware of it, and avoid getting into to it.


----------



## thetruth (Apr 2, 2011)

*Only the truth*

http://thomsonrogers.com/revolution-650

Class action about Revolution 650.


----------



## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

That's just it isn't it...Planters is a multinational company. If there was profit in the vending machine business they wouldn't bother holding seminars to attract investors in hotels. They would just use their own channels to distribute their own peanuts everywhere. 

I really John T Reed's BS detection checklist with 50 items to watch for in real estate scams. The thing is these check list items apply across the board to pretty much any industry.

http://www.johntreed.com/BSchecklist.html


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Selling peanuts, meh

I want to be a social media manager. I could spread BS and scam people from my iPhone on the beach


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Jenniferlaycock said:


> Good afternoon everyone!
> 
> My name is Jennifer Laycock and I actually serve as the social media manager for the Revolution650 program. One of our team members ran across this discussion and I wanted to take a minute to address a few of your concerns.
> 
> ...


I couldn't help but notice you disagreed with the comment about the cost of the machines, yet didn't state a disclaimer that the potential 170% return on investment, should not be expected by all.

You also did not state how many machines you personally own. (hey, I don't want to get personal and know where they are located)

If I had something that would give me a 170% return, I wouldn`t ask others to invest in it. I would hire someone to keep them stocked up though.

Sounds like the cash flows in one direction to me.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> selling peanuts, meh
> 
> i want to be a social media manager. I could spread bs and scam people from my iphone on the beach


lol!


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

hmm... where do i start? or should i at all? waste of time, but i will try to be quick.



Jenniferlaycock said:


> Good afternoon everyone!
> 
> My name is Jennifer Laycock and I actually serve as the social media manager for the Revolution650 program. One of our team members ran across this discussion and I wanted to take a minute to address a few of your concerns.
> 
> ...


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

thetruth said:


> http://thomsonrogers.com/revolution-650
> 
> Class action about Revolution 650.


i did go through the claim statement of the law suite and i should say they have a solid case. i am willing to testify as witness if you will. every statement in the claim is true to the last word. i pity the zwanigas and hundreds of others who fell in to the trap.

there were several things that shocked me in the second meeting as well. i had not posted about this since i thought it was a waste of time. but here is what transpired.

people were ushered into a room in smaller groups. after another repeat of demo on the machine, we were seated for the talk. i had a lot of questions (at this time i was still not totally convinced it was a scam) but the VP completely turned the onus on us. he started off by asking each of us to explain in turns why they should choose us as distributors!!! here i was, wanting to ask why we should chose their business and there they were with their own pressure tactics. not only were we not given a chance for all our questions, even though it is fair for them to choose distributors, we were asked to sell ourselves in front of total strangers. this is where i was beginning to feel pity for those who were selling themselves hard. especially for a particular walmart pharmacy manager who seemed ready to even publish his credit history and family net worth and his whole life and career in front of total strangers.

the final shocker was when we were asked to bring a certified cheque for the third meeting. i felt pity for the old couple who booked the first slot the next morning and said they needed to run to the bank now to get the cheque. hope they were kidding...


----------



## thetruth (Apr 2, 2011)

*Bring it on!*

Spread it to the world. Only way to make the untruthful learn. 

Post, Blog, and Repeat!


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

thetruth said:


> Spread it to the world. Only way to make the untruthful learn.
> 
> Post, Blog, and Repeat!


Agreed. But some will defend the untruthful to the death.


----------



## pgreen (Apr 10, 2011)

*Revolution 650*

Regarding the 'high pressure sales' comments above for the Revolution 650 program...

I also attended one of these seminars over a year ago.

Yes, it is true that they were not taking money from anybody from the first or second meeting. However, potential distributors were kept so busy at the meetings, getting 'application type cover letters' ready for the next day's meeting, reading over the information provided at the seminars, etc., that there was little or no time to do any investigative work into the validity of this program. As well, even if potential distributors were inclined to search for information about the business, they would have been hard pressed to find anything negative about the business, as the Revolution company works hard to make sure that any negative feedback is quickly removed from the website. I've read posts on other forums that had soon after been shut down saying things like 'the person posting the comments was in breach of their contract' etc. Apparently, distributors are forbidden to discuss the details of their business to the general public, thereby making it impossible to warn other potential distributors about the problems.

At the seminar, distributors were also told that after the initial purchase, it could be some time before they would have the opportunity to purchase additional machines for expansion, thereby putting pressure on people to purchase lots now, rather than starting small and testing things out first. They were also told that there was limited availability and if they waited too long (or took the time to have a lawyer review the contract), they might miss their opportunity. Once they met their quota for the area, that was it. 

These are only a few examples of how the seminars were conducted in such a way that even though they claim 'no high pressure', there was indeed pressure placed on potential distributors to buy now, buy fast, and buy lots. If this isn't 'high pressure' in disguise, I don't know what is.

I think it would be a tragedy if the Canadian Government (the judicial system) allows companies like these to get away with ripping off innocent, unsuspecting people the way they have. Hopefully justice will be served in the lawsuit and the victims compensated for their losses.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

this is exactly what i meant in my post. there was a very fine line between presenting a case and pressurising people to commit. revolution650 guys are geniuses. they have done their research very well on psychology as well as sales. i am glad i attended the seminar and still escaped unscathed and my good sense prevailed. and i hope they do lose the lawsuit.


----------



## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

sad. I guess the peanut allergy thing has Planters desperate? weird they would be involved. 

All of these "scams" play on the human emotion and tap into the greed. 

I have friends who fall for every one of these easy money deals.... they work so hard at staying uneducated and looking for the next big easy.

Most places worth having a vending machine, already have a contract in place for food services.


----------

