# Beyond Meat - BYND



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

today the sizzling stock market rage of the year, Beyond Meat, added bacon to its Beast Burger lineup of plant-based meat substitutes.

BYND is this year's most successful IPO, going from $25 to $222.86 in a few months.

no one quite understands why americans are going basilistic for this humdrum california food company. BYND makes fake hamburgers from pea, bean & rice protein isolates, flavoured with apples, herbs & spices. They've partnered with Dunkin Donuts, which is selling their beast burgers & will soon add the bacon product.

reportedly BYND has no earnings yet. 

yawn. The world has had substitute meat products for decades. Why are millennials suddenly mobbing to buy BYND's Burger Beasts? dieticians are saying the saturated fat content is as high as real steer & the fake burgers contain 5 times as much sodium as a real Mac.

to rub salt on the Beast, those fake hamburgers cost more than the real thing.

a friend told me yesterday that BYND's float is so tiny that brokers are now charging shorting fees of 269%, if indeed they can get their hands on any shortable stock at all. He didn't short, he took the option route, much safer.

but he lost $$ as the phoney baloney continued to climb & climb.

my theory is that alexandria ocasio cortez must be behind the fake meat fireworks. AOC is said to be destroying american capital markets by sabotaging the stock exchanes.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> Why are millennials suddenly mobbing to buy BYND's Burger Beasts? dieticians are saying the saturated fat content is as high as real steer & the fake burgers contain 5 times as much sodium as a real Mac.


Of course they do, it's the only way you can make them taste any good. If you want a hamburger taste, have a freaking hamburger. 

Millennials are simply buying into the advertising.



humble_pie said:


> my theory is that alexandria ocasio cortez must be behind the fake meat fireworks. AOC is said to be destroying american capital markets by sabotaging the stock exchanges.


I wouldn't doubt it.

ltr


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## kelaa (Apr 5, 2016)

We tried an Impossible Burger at a community job-training restaurant for the novelty of it. It had a weird taste that's definitely not the same as a meat burger of any kind or quality. It wouldn't be a repeat thing. If one were actually concerned about the health effects of ground beef, one can always choose grilled chicken breast as good alternative. Or even portabello and a slice of cheese is very good. Occasionally you might have the choice of grilled salmon. Lots of options other than an imitation-beef burger.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> If you want a hamburger taste, have a freaking hamburger.


Yeah, just don’t go to McDonald’s, a&w, Burger King, harvey’s Or any similar place which claims to serve “hamburgers”.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Yeah, just don’t go to McDonald’s, a&w, Burger King, harvey’s Or any similar place which claims to serve “hamburgers”.



Personally I really like McDonalds, they consistently provide OK.
If I want good, I go to a real restaurant.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Ha. Phony baloney indeed.

I have a feeling there is some large expected amount of adoption by non-vegans for this product. Certainly there is a fad right now of meat eaters giving it a try, but that's just because it's in the news excessively and there are a lot of TV commercials.

I expect that the amount of people converting to these fake meat products permanently to be near zero. With a tiny amount of "occasional meat substitute for cooking" takers who don't know anything about nutrition.

They are too commercial for vegans to be seen with - not farmer's markety enough... Don't know who would be the demographic that would eat this as a fast food burger-type product, again other than the "fad tryers" at this present moment. 

Still, puts are expensive, $10 for a Sept 2019 150p or $30 for a Jan 2020 100p??? Tempting, but probably a good way to throw away $1000/$3000, and I promised myself I'd stop screwing around with this crap anyways.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Yeah, just don’t go to McDonald’s, a&w, Burger King, harvey’s Or any similar place which claims to serve “hamburgers”.


Funny... I don't have a problem going to any of those places occasionally. Guess I'm not a snob. Not every meal has to be "gourmet".


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Tried them a couple of times... not bad. Not quite a replacement for actual meat, but surprisingly close.

I could see myself having it once in a while. Not convinced enough to actually buy the stock, even though my mom said I should (vegetarian).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kelaa said:


> If one were actually concerned about the health effects of ground beef, one can always choose grilled chicken breast as good alternative. Or even portabello and a slice of cheese is very good. Occasionally you might have the choice of grilled salmon. Lots of options other than an imitation-beef burger.



absolutely. Those alternatives ^^ sound very tempting

most/all on here are saying that BYND will soon be toast not meat substitute, the question is when

glimpsed some video in which the salesmen for the BYND stampede are calling it FoodTech

there's a lot of virtual food around. Functional food. Synthetic food. Derivative food. Representational sampling food. Like ETFs. Next thing you know humans will be able to index food, ie one quick pill or injection wlll replace 24 hours worth of meals. Or humans will lose weight by lending their food out to hedge funds.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> glimpsed some video in which the salesmen for the BYND stampede are calling it FoodTech
> 
> there's a lot of virtual food around. Functional food. Synthetic food. Derivative food. Representational sampling food.


I wonder if this was brought to market by the same kinds of people who supported Soylent, that disgusting brown sludge that was marketed as a high-tech food replacement that frees you from the burden of preparing and cooking food. Everything you need in a brown sludge, brought to you by Silicon Valley.

Beyond Meat is in fact a Silicon Valley effort and it does echo the tech-obsessed arrogance of these people... the idea that everything needs more tech, and that tech will solve everything.

Amazon used to list one of these Soylent coffee flavoured beverages (I just looked but it seems they are no longer sold there). The reviews were incredible. One of the products frequently caused significant intestinal side effects, and you would find these bizarre reviews of people talking about intestinal discomfort and frequent bathroom visits, while also giving it 4/5 stars and saying how much they enjoy the convenience and increase to their productivity due to not having to pause for meals.

I work with a guy who likes this kind of thing. He says he enjoys a certain high protein, high-tech food replacement bar... but also warns everyone it gives incredible gas and bloating. He says all of this with a big smile.

You'd think the bloating, the gas, the raging diarrhea and even hospital visits (yes all of them with Soylent) would be nature's way of telling you this is a bad idea.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

peterk said:


> I expect that the amount of people converting to these fake meat products permanently to be near zero ...
> 
> Still, puts are expensive, $10 for a Sept 2019 150p or $30 for a Jan 2020 100p??? Tempting, but probably a good way to throw away $1000/$3000




buying puts means spending one's own money

if a jan/20 100 put costs $30 out of investor's own pocket, he could reverse the drainage by selling a naked call. That way he'll take dollars in, not pay dollars out.

he'd set an arbitrary framework, something like $30 say. If BYND goes against him & continues to soar, he'd cover his short call by buying back when the loss hits $30.

either way the max loss is $30 but with the naked call setup money comes in the door at the start. There's also a higher probability of keeping that premium if the stock plateaus or trades in a band ... time decay will work in the OTM call seller's favour while it will work against the OTM put buyer.

i have a friend was 25 years in the option brokerage business, now he runs a small hedge fund. Couple weeks ago he e-mailed to say he'd sold a small number of naked calls in BYND at $62 but he covered quickly when stock went the wrong way, he bought back at $74 so his loss was $12 or $1200 per contract.

me i am just a pantry biscuit & a total shivering coward when it comes to crazy stocks that have no value, i would not touch any form of BYND.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I wonder if this was brought to market by the same kinds of people who supported Soylent, that disgusting brown sludge that was marketed as a high-tech food replacement that frees you from the burden of preparing and cooking food. Everything you need in a brown sludge, brought to you by Silicon Valley.
> 
> Beyond Meat is in fact a Silicon Valley effort and it does echo the tech-obsessed arrogance of these people... the idea that everything needs more tech, and that tech will solve everything.
> 
> ...



practically makes one want to become amish or mennonite

no machines no cars maybe no electricity

zero chemical farm, no pesticides, organic vegetables & fruits, free-range chickens & ducks, milk cream & cheese from pastured grass-fed animals


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

this stock is complete hype....reminiscent of 1998 - 1999.
remember drugstore.com?
that thing used to trade at 400x revenue (not EPS...revenue).

i can agree with the theory that there may be some highly political promoters and backers behind the scenes.

the tight float is also part of the reason and the frequent short squeezes...
given those artificial situations, this thing could easily go to $500 or more.

their first earnings report comes out on Monday....could be another short squeeze....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I lived with a vegetarian family back in the 1960s when I was going to school in the US.

There were "meat substitutes" back then, and I mostly remember a company from Loma Linda, California who sold "hamburger patties" and "hot dog weiners" they called Linkettes.

They actually tasted pretty good but nothing at all like real meat. The family also ate a lot of soy based "meat". They had a lump of fake meatloaf with 2 popsicle sticks as a "turkey".

They went a little overboard on the vegetarian and health thing though. 

They decided the big meal should be eaten at breakfast so there I was a hungry teen eating eggplant for breakfast and a bowl of peaches for supper.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

LOL.........so I looked them up on Google to see if there were any historical references to the Loma Linda (Worthingtons) company and they are still in business.

I didn't know the weiners came in a can though. It looks like everything they make is sold in a can. Thinking back I would describe the taste as spicy and tasty mush.

I like the names.......Swiss Stake, FriChik, Tuno, Choplets, Skallops, Linkettes, Redi-Burger and of course the ever popular Nutmeat.........LOL.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lin...KHQ-tAZMQ9QEwAXoECAkQBg#imgrc=SyZQdOaO9h4KwM:


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

peterk said:


> They are too commercial for vegans to be seen with - not farmer's markety enough... Don't know who would be the demographic that would eat this as a fast food burger-type product, again other than the "fad tryers" at this present moment...


We bought 2 of them for grilling. There is no flare up but also no telltale browning. We thought the taste was just fine. But we are going to save money by avoiding imitation meat products.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

SixesAndSevens said:


> their first earnings report comes out on Monday....could be another short squeeze....


 
earnings on monday? no wonder vol has driven those option premiums to the moon

prices likely to slip pfffffft after earnings announcement

iron will be king! iron flies & iron condors that is. i am surprised my hedging friend didn't put on a 4-legged iron spread, he just shorted naked calls in a simple bet that went wrong in the short term, which is unusual for him.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ... no one quite understands why americans are going basilistic for this humdrum california food company. BYND makes fake hamburgers from pea, bean & rice protein isolates, flavoured with apples, herbs & spices. They've partnered with Dunkin Donuts, which is selling their beast burgers & will soon add the bacon product ...


Have they partnered with Dunkin Donuts?
Guess I missed it with the non-stop ads from A&W and Tim Horton's about their BYND products.




humble_pie said:


> ... yawn. The world has had substitute meat products for decades. Why are millennials suddenly mobbing to buy BYND's Burger Beasts? dieticians are saying the saturated fat content is as high as real steer & the fake burgers contain 5 times as much sodium as a real Mac.
> 
> to rub salt on the Beast, those fake hamburgers cost more than the real thing.


Rumour is the taste is a lot better than the previous substitute meat products.





humble_pie said:


> ... my theory is that alexandria ocasio cortez must be behind the fake meat fireworks. AOC is said to be destroying american capital markets by sabotaging the stock exchanes.


Good to know AOC has been able to convince A&W Canada that they are selling enough of these puppies to expand their offerings. I didn't know her reach extended into Canada (or why should would care about Canada). :rolleyes2:

Maybe she was behind Nortel's irrational exuberance then crash.

Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Good to know AOC has been able to convince A&W Canada that they are selling enough of these puppies to expand their offerings. I didn't know her reach extended into Canada (or why should would care about Canada). :rolleyes2:
> 
> Maybe she was behind Nortel's irrational exuberance then crash



AOC was too young for nortel but she could be eyeing us now, with a view to subterfuge


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

.....FWIW...I'm thinking AI on BYND!.....
how can I lose?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

For some reason, products coming from BYND remind me of that old movie Soylent Green <<< shudders >>>


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Beyond Meat's fake burger is by most accounts, surprisingly not bad. There are a lot of non-meat eaters out there. I don't know if that makes BYND a buy at any valuation, but it does give it a solid business case, so it probably isn't going anywhere for a long time. At 1000% growth since the IPO, that is more than fully reflected.

These comments that "meat is healthier" and "these burgers are unhealthy" and "I won't eat this disgusting slop" are fairly narrow. It is doubtful that most of their customers care that you like meat, as they are not eating it regardless of the nutritional comparison. And protein is a known issue for vegetarians, and this is a "surprisingly not bad" fake burger with plenty of protein. Thus the reasons behind their success. A "surprisingly not bad" vegetarian burger has not really existed previous to this one. There may be others coming, but BYND is first to market on scale.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

nathan79 said:


> Funny... I don't have a problem going to any of those places occasionally. Guess I'm not a snob. Not every meal has to be "gourmet".


I admit I’m a food snob, not a gourmet by any means, but it has to at least quality as food.

I can’t even swallow a McDonald’s burger anymore, my stomach says “no way you’re putting that into me” and it shuts down my throat.


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> AOC was too young for nortel but she could be eyeing us now, with a view to subterfuge


in terms of backers, this one has a bunch of strange bedfellows...Tyson foods and PETA are both early investors, so is the Gates Foundation...
james4beach said above that this smells of silicon valley and I tend to agree....
with those kinds of deep pockets, why would this stock ever go down?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

.....wish this thread had started back in april, may....


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

SixesAndSevens said:


> in terms of backers, this one has a bunch of strange bedfellows...Tyson foods and PETA are both early investors, so is the Gates Foundation...
> 
> james4beach said above that this smells of silicon valley and I tend to agree....
> with those kinds of deep pockets, why would this stock ever go down?



evidentlly bill gates & leonardo di caprio & a few other celebs were early backers of beyond

but it's the kids who appear to have the key to beyond burger's astonishing popularity

it's the environment, the kids are saying. Cattle take up too much energy, are making too much methane, they point out. While plant based hamburgers help the environment & don't involve harming even a hair on an animal's hide, let alone killing it, say the kids.

a recent University of Michigan study is getting a lot of attention from ardent beyonders:



> Producing Beyond Burgers uses 99 percent less water, 93 percent less land, creates 90 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions and requires 46 percent less energy than producing beef burgers, according to a September report commissioned by Beyond Meat.
> 
> The report, which measures the environmental impact of a quarter pound Beyond Burger as compared to a quarter pound U.S. beef burger, was conducted by the Center for Sustainable Systems at University of Michigan.
> 
> And of course, plant-based “meat” production does not entail any inhumane treatment of animals, something that plagues factory farming.



http://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/publication/CSS18-10.pdf


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

SixesAndSevens said:


> in terms of backers, this one has a bunch of strange bedfellows...Tyson foods and PETA are both early investors, so is the Gates Foundation ...


There's also Kleiner Perkins, Leonardo DiCaprio and the Humane Society.

Do you have a reference for PETA investing as there are references to PETA naming Beyond Meat as its company of the year for 2013 but so far, nothing says they invested in it.




SixesAndSevens said:


> ... james4beach said above that this smells of silicon valley and I tend to agree ...


Maybe it's the cow pies from when the founder helped out with the family dairy farm in his teens?
https://fortune.com/2014/01/31/10-questions-ethan-brown-ceo-beyond-meat/
https://time.com/5601980/beyond-meat-ceo-ethan-brown-interview/
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/307715

It seems his father is teaching at McGill university in the faculty of agriculture and environmental science.




SixesAndSevens said:


> ... with those kinds of deep pockets, why would this stock ever go down?


If they aren't selling product and eventually having earnings, eventually the money flowing in will stop.

I have no idea whether they will do well in the long term or crash'n burn. 

With well over a decade of those who don't want to eat meat complaining about what the commercial offerings taste like (aka sawdust according to one person I have talked to), I am surprised that so many comments are assuming they will disappear.

Never mind that the Lone Star tick that can cause an allergy to red meat has been migrating up from the US into Canada.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/tick-...rgic-to-red-meat-spotted-in-ontario-1.4486154


Cheers


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Just a Guy said:


> I admit I’m a food snob, not a gourmet by any means, but it has to at least quality as food.
> 
> I can’t even swallow a McDonald’s burger anymore, my stomach says “no way you’re putting that into me” and it shuts down my throat.


Yeah agreed, it got me thinking and wondering the last time I went into a fast food establishment or ate fast food, I would guess about 30 years, so not recently.

I do enjoy standing in line at the grocery store and observing the cart in front of me, to see how much processed and poor quality products in boxes they are purchasing. It boggles the mind what people buy and obviously feed their family. The processed stuff is much more expensive and much less nutritious than whole, single-ingredient foods. Why doesn't our government promote this truth?

I've said it before on this site, but my grocery cart generally contains nothing that doesn't have dirt on it, or hasn't been killed in the last week. And it costs about half of the processed foods in the cart in front of me.

'Beyond Meat', I'm afraid is in the processed category. The fancy new term for these products is plant-based protein. Most of these meat substitutes contain, (but not limited to): protein isolate, refined coconut oil, cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, maltodextrin, yeast extract, vegetable glycerin, dried yeast, gum arabic, succinic acid, modified food starch, annatto.
Generally, the taste comes from coconut oil (think fast food) and salt it seems. But hey, we're young and hip and we are going to save the planet, even if it kills us by eating this crap.

I'll stick to actual meat. It seems so simple, basic, nutritious and inexpensive. And by nature, humans are meat eaters, and our bodies are designed for it. We have incisors for tearing meat, and molars for grinding it. You don't need a lot to be healthy, but searching for processed alternatives is silly.

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Fast food companies have greatly improved their menu from what they used to be.

Salads, chili, baked potatoes, whole wheat veggie subs, soups, tuna sandwiches...........lots of healthy choices today.

A lot of stores have deli sections today as well. We shop at Remark where they have an extensive offering of dinners made there every day.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

young canadian w asian ancestry telling me today that his friend owns a sushi bar, they are already ordering beyond meat beef substitute to incorporate into sushi rolls instead of the real animal, because their customers are asking for it.

yes those beyond sushi rolls will be more expensive he said

he himself orders Beyonds at A & W, says they taste OK, close enough to original hamburger, he knows they have too much salt but says that concern is offset by all the environmental gains from plant based proteins


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> Fast food companies have greatly improved their menu from what they used to be.
> 
> .....lots of healthy choices today.


No, there are no healthy choices at fast food outlets.

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

_Beyond Meat's market cap is bigger than 25% of the S&P 500—and that's 'beyond ridiculous,' says investor. Beyond Meat's run this year is beyond belief. Shares of the fake meat maker have soared over 820% since its initial public offering on May 2, putting Beyond Meat's market capitalization at a whopping $13.85 billion ..._

There is something strange going on with this stock. There aren't that many veggie meat lovers out there.


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## EPS_Investor (Sep 7, 2017)

I always get a good chuckle when these hype large caps show up and everyone thinks they'll be the next apple and they always falter. Tesla is a perfect example, along with all the weed companies.

After 15 years of this I learned that when you keep the principal of investing simple and easy, that's when you make money. Same thing Buffet did. You want to buy companies that are off the radar and make MONEY EVERY SINGLE QUARTER. Large cap to small cap, doesn't matter. You find an EPS play, eventually the cash builds and it has to be turned into a dividend, buyback, acquisition, etc. You buy hype stuff that just shows losses over and over, that's when you get burned. True blue chip companies rarely ever show losses and that's why they get that status.

Point here with the Beyond Meat thread post is to be careful to those who buy at a high and are expecting it to go to the moon. Always look at the numbers and more sales means **** all if they cannot convert revenue into profit. That's my 2 cents.

Beyond Meat might show a monster profit and then the move is justified, but if it's a loss, I would be running to the exit.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the thing is, one can cook absolutely delicious dishes with peas, mung beans, herbs, spices, potatoes, onions, garlic, celery, leeks, carrots, tomatoes ... or any of at least 100 other vegetables ... not to speak of pastas & other grains

there are thousand-year-old cuisines all across the mediterranean & the middle east that feature heavenly variations of the above 

why would anyone want to eat these nutritious, tasty, authentic foodstuffs all chemically smooshed into an imitation hamburger?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

With two of my four kids, I still don’t technically know if they are allergic to penicillin. Only two have ever had it. The doctor was amazed when one was 5 and had it for the first time...now one is 17 and we still don’t know. Not a lot of fast food in the family, the kids don’t like it either, and they all know how to cook from scratch. Probably says something there.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

A lot of negativity in this thread.

I've tried the Tim Horton's offering and while it doesn't taste like meat (does taste like some sort of bean/legume base), it is a lot better than the traditional soy/vegetable options. As for price, I think it was about a dollar more expensive than the meat equivalent, so not really a deal breaker. As for nutrition, I believe it has more salt than regular meat, but does have lower amounts of fat, and equivalent bio-availability of protein.

I doubt that it will displace traditional meat, but would have a niche like almond milk or soy milk. They didn't displace cow milk, but there is a market for them.

Is the stock overpriced? I would say so, but the interest in legume-based meat alternatives is a boon to Canadian farmers who grow these types of crops. Considering that Canada is the world's second larger producer of these crops, and exports 75% of it, greater demand leads to higher prices and better for Canada's balance sheet. http://globeways.com/pulse-facts/

As for missing out on the Beyond Meat stock, we can look at the old Yukon gold rush. Sure the miners may be able to strike it rich, but they could also become broke. The better play was to be the store owners, innkeepers or tavern owners who sold the goods and services to the miners. Likewise you can look at either the producers of the crops, or the processors. For example, one of the largest processing companies in the world is a Canadian company called AGT Food and Ingredients. It is privately owned by Fairfax Holdings. It wouldn't be a bad play if you like Fairfax. https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/agriculture/peas


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bgc_fan said:


> A lot of negativity in this thread




re negativity to the food: there are some excellent cooks in this forum. Everyone can see how they emphasize the best of the freshest ingredients, brief cooking periods so as not to destroy vitamins & enzymes, straight out of the farm or ocean whenever possible.

i am willing to bet a truly interesting amount of money that not one of these cooks is routinely serving frankenfoods to his or her dining table (routinely i mean) (a little experiment now & then does not count)

re negativity to the stock: who wouldn't be negative? it's a fun situation. Here you have all these would-be shorts circling around but there's no float so they can't short. Did i mention my friend whose broker said they could possibly find some shares for him to short but the fee would be 269% of market :biggrin:

it's preposterous stories like the above which provide comic relief from otherwise humdrum recitals re sustained-withdrawal-rates-should-i-buy-hi-dividend-stocks.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> it's preposterous stories like the above which provide comic relief from otherwise humdrum recitals re sustained-withdrawal-rates-should-i-buy-hi-dividend-stocks.


LOL, well said HP!:cocksure:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the lab-culture hamburger chemists are targeting a much bigger consumer population than just vegans

there's another imitation meat company called Impossible Foods. It's a private company so we don't hear about it, but they're almost as big as Beyond Meat & they're selling plant-based hamburgers to Burger King.

Impossible's CEO says that his goal is to convert americans from animal meat to plant-based protein products by 2035. Environmentally speaking this step alone - drastically reducing the population of ruminant cattle & cows - could halt climate change, the anti-animal hamburger disciples are claiming.

https://impossiblefoods.com/food/


this CNN piece offers good background on lab cultured "meat" producers, including an update on Nestle's ambitious plans to move into the plant protein industry in north america, where it will compete fiercely with much smaller Beyond & Impossible.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/business/impossible-burgers-beyond-meat/index.html


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I think I’ll stick with international fragrances and flavours...it’s a company that produces chemicals and spice mixes which the food industry uses to try to make their food actually taste and smell like food as an investment. They’ve done quite well over the years, and with these kind of things coming down the chain, will probably only get bigger.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19534&stc=1&d=1564244643


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> re negativity to the food: there are some excellent cooks in this forum. Everyone can see how they emphasize the best of the freshest ingredients, brief cooking periods so as not to destroy vitamins & enzymes, straight out of the farm or ocean whenever possible.
> 
> i am willing to bet a truly interesting amount of money that not one of these cooks is routinely serving frankenfoods to his or her dining table (routinely i mean) (a little experiment now & then does not count)
> 
> ...


It's not so much being negative about the stock. It's more about the negative attitude about people who would buy these products, i.e. comments about vegans or millennials who would eat these type of meat substitute products.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There is some research going into developing alternate protein sources in order to feed a growing and hungry world population.

One such project involves meal worms, which apparently have very high protein content and are easy to grow in abundance.

Some day, plant based protein may be a much more desirable product than the alternatives.

People should look up what the rest of the world eats. Youtube has videos of "fishing" in the rice patties of Cambodia and Vietnam etc.

They catch and eat anything that moves.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I’m shocked at what starving people will do there Sags, truly shocked. Maybe if you travelled to such places you’d understand the reality.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

sags said:


> People should look up what the rest of the world eats. Youtube has videos of "fishing" in the rice patties of Cambodia and Vietnam etc.
> 
> They catch and eat anything that moves.





Just a Guy said:


> I’m shocked at what starving people will do there Sags, truly shocked. Maybe if you travelled to such places you’d understand the reality.


What a great example of how the best and most ethical energy source, fossil fuels, is also the most environmentally friendly.

When people are allowed to have their productivity and lives improved by cheap, reliable, available fossil fuels, lifting them out of crushing poverty, they stop doing things like destroying delicate marsh ecosystems to catch and eat snakes, trawling the ocean and keeping everything they catch, including endangered species, or burning down the forest for grazing and planting.

But let's keep pretending that plastic straws, hybrid ferries and fake burgers are the real solution to protecting the environment.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bgc_fan said:


> It's not so much being negative about the stock. It's more about the negative attitude about people who would buy these products, i.e. comments about vegans or millennials who would eat these type of meat substitute products.





actually i don't see so many negative comments about vegans or millennials or anyone else who buys & enjoys Beyond burgers.

the point i'd wanted to make is that the nutritional knowledge that legumes (beans) from plants plus grains from plants will make up a complete protein with all necessary amino acids, when eaten together, has been known - effectively if not formally - for thousands of years.

it's the basis of countless national diets: rice-plus-soy (asia), cornflour-plus-beans (latin america), flatbread-plus-beans (middle east & africa). Even peanut butter sandwiches are a variation of this.

me, speaking just as a home cook, i'd want to prepare recipes based on those traditional combos with those traditional ingredients au naturel, i would not choose to re-culture them in a laboratory in order to produce "grilled beef hamburger" smell, for example.

it's a personal thing. I'm a decent cook. Generally i cook from scratch. I prize ultra fresh high quality ingredients. I'm always happy to know my farm & my farmer. I mostly avoid processed & prepared food products.

i'm not a vegetarian, but it's easy for me to put together a tempting vegetarian or vegan meal for someone else, without having to go to the extremes of buying a main course that has been molecularly altered in a laboratory.

another advantage of traditional whole-protein dishes made from beans & grains in traditional combinations, is that these dishes are inexpensive. Uncooked beans & grains might run $2 per kilo, which is a far cry below the cost of Beyond Burgers.

sorry if i sounded negative.


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

sags said:


> There is something strange going on with this stock. There aren't that many veggie meat lovers out there.


^ i agree with this...there is something wrong with this stock, i think too.
I am not much of a smart trader myself to figure out what exactly...maybe the tight float...investors are paying up-front for many decades of growth...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I think people might be overthinking this. The stock market is an irrational place to begin with, with relatively random movements among stocks. It shouldn't be a big surprise the price is going up.

Wall Street always pumps the success stories, publishes articles on it etc because it stokes investor hype and enthusiasm for securities in general. This is part of the whole game of Wall Street. You'll notice for example they spend a lot more time pumping stories of *active movers* as this is the true nature of the game... not the long term successes but active / popular movers.

That's why there's constant media focus on BYND and TSLA. Neither stock is of any consequence but they cause trades and commissions to occur.

The industry does a great job of that, actually. Look at how much attention they can direct towards the fun (going up) stories. It's also part of the industry's self-serving narrative, to draw attention to new listings and drum up hype for the IPO process in general.


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## SixesAndSevens (Dec 4, 2009)

massive beat by beyond meat...raised guidance for the year.


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## kelaa (Apr 5, 2016)

All this plant-based-protein craze has boosted Maple Leaf Foods today, +12%!, for no reason that I can see other than "yes, we are in the imitation meat business too". We can now afford to eat this imitation burger, not that we'd want to eat it based on taste or nutrition. I am however somewhat tempted by the negative 3% margin. It's like Maple Leaf is subsidizing me to eat this; it's hard to turn down a good deal.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kalytera therapeutics (symbol KALY.V), a company working on therapeutic treatments for severe illnesses, is said to be developing a cannabis-derived product to be infused into meatless hamburgers

the kalytera product is said to contain CBDs only, no THC. The treated plant-based hamburgers would be sold for medical use.

lending new meaning to the expression All Dressed. As the ancient proverb said, Let your food be your medicine & let your medicine be your food.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Wow KALY.VN a niche product infused into a niche product. Hang onto your wallets! Speculation will be rampant.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Taken to the extreme, it may make dining out a rather lackluster experience when the waiter drops a bowl of pills on the table and says "help yourself".


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

on the other hand, the story could go in the opposite direction. You go to a pharmacy to pick up your prescription & the pharmacist asks you what flavour of smoothie or what kind of cookie bar he should serve you.

me i would want the gummints to strictly prohibit any form of cannabis in any food or beverage product, although sadly i can see that gummints are not going to do that. I totally believe that, disguised as food or drink, the edible/potable CBD/THC items become far too available & too tempting for children. 

there are regulations regarding the storage of firearms in a household so that children cannot easily find & play with these weapons. But it will be impossible to regulate the storage of food in a home. It will be commonplace for parents to mix up CBD chocolate brownies or THC chocolate brownies with regular chocolate brownies.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Pearls will be clutched everywhere.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

I've had a couple BYD burgers. They are junk food for sure, just like the the burgers they are replacing. And they have the advantage of not having cholesterol and trans fats, but certainly not considered a health food. However, for those who care about the environment, for both CO2 reasons and much more tangible reasons like degradation of soils (and therefore quality of our food supply), ocean dead zones, the #1 destruction of the amazon rain forest is also for the production of beef. Our current rate of livestock production is extremely unsustainable and rapidly damaging our planet, not too mention unhealthy. Its unethical for anyone who can stomach watching the process of farming to slaughter house, and this is coming from an ex hunter.

Many of you pro carbon tax folks should look into just how damaging our current farming practices are, some estimates are that animal agriculture contributes up to 50% of greenhouse gasses. Even if the numbers are half of that, its still far worse than our vehicles.

The BYD stock may come back down to size, but the processed plant meats is likely here to stay, people still want their junk food.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ Yup, agriculture should be subject to carbon tax as well. Glad we agree!


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

andrewf said:


> ^ Yup, agriculture should be subject to carbon tax as well. Glad we agree!


At the very least it shouldn't be subsidized. Basically we're gonna charge everyone carbon tax on fuel, and subsidize activities that pollute even more. Genius.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Interesting that deforestation of the Amazon in Brazil is news because of the speed involved, but tens of thousands of acres of prime agricultural land throughout Ontario's 'golden horseshoe' have been turned over to brick home subdivisions and commercial development over the past 50 years or so. 
Should be no mystery why higher temperatures seem to be occurring. It is now one massive parking lot.

Joni Mitchell warned us back in 1970.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

The speed of the deforestation is certainly ringing alarm bells, but I imagine the reason that amazon deforestation might be more publicized is because of how vital it is for earths eco system and the survival of our species. 

Back to BYND stock, I'd bet the main threat to it is going to come from the rapidly growing competition in the plant based products. Make fun of millennials all one wants, but at least they are starting to get informed enough to realize that plant based processed food, is a better choice than animal based processed food (a class 1 carcinogen- like cigarettes). Paying an extra 50 cents for a plant based junk food (rather than tax payer subsidized meat) should be a no brainer for all those who claim to care about the planet. Food selection makes a bigger difference to the planet than switching to an electric vehicle. 

I think you'll find this category growing with more competition in coming years. As well as a strong campaign from meat, dairy and egg lobbies to stop it and scare people away from it.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

^ A lot of (plant-based) bull **** in there.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ^ A lot of (plant-based) bull **** in there.


Such as?

I get it, back when I was an avid hunter I saw all kinds of studies and documentaries on health/ environment/ nutrition and I thought they were all propaganda as well. Years later, after some health issues and health scares in my family I decided to dig deeper and realized most of it was true and if anything, as more science came in over the years, turned out to be understated. As much as I didn't want it to be true....


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I agree that loss of Amazon rainforest is catastrophic, particularly to native species there. It should be a priority for global bodies like the UN and environmental groups. You say that it's loss will cause our extinction?

If we are talking plant burgers vs meat burgers, we are not talking about the processed meats containing nitrates-nitrites that are classified as Group 1 carginogens (please hold the bacon on that teen burger).

You say meat is tax-payer subsidized. Do you think your plant burger crops, chicken, dairy, etc. are not?

Food and transport. Timely news on that. A bit of a pickle though. Apparently eliminating "_cars, factories and power plants_" is not enough. We also need to eliminate meat and rice production. We need to go back to eating grains and nuts. We must change food production to save the world, says leaked report.
So, either first world countries need to roll back and developing countries need to stop their current development - or we're back to that old too-many-people-on-the-planet issue.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I agree that loss of Amazon rainforest is catastrophic, particularly to native species there. It should be a priority for global bodies like the UN and environmental groups. You say that it's loss will cause our extinction?
> 
> *-Its certainly a possibility, much like the destruction of the ocean. We are just scratching the surface learning about these complicated interconnected eco systems and the destruction of them opens up all kinds of possible environmental disasters.*
> 
> ...


.. edited for technical difficulties


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It sounds like the food people eat is going to change if we like it or not.

The climate change panel released a study on the effects of climate change on food production and it doesn't look good.

Current agricultural practices aren't going to be effective as droughts hit year after year. We will need a different food source in the future.

Perhaps insects........they are high in protein, easy to produce and are resistant to just about anything. 

Want fries with that bug burger ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVYbPPHA6U


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

please correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a Beyond Burger just a tastes-more-like-beef-hamburger except it's made from the same old same old same old plant ingredients that have been known for decades to produce complete proteins when ingested?

ie the Beyond Burger's claim to fame is some fancy molecular taste re-positioning in the laboratory. But otherwise it's just a plain old legume.

me i tend to side with the cooks & nutritionists who say that plant-based or not, Beyonds are still overly-processed foods w too much salt, fat & possibly other lab-induced additives. These old-fashioned cooks & nutritionists are saying easier & cheaper to go with traditional mediterranean grain/legume/vegetable dishes plus a reasonable serving of meat or fresh fish 2-3 time a week.

then there's eggz. Plenty of protein in poultry eggz. Science has recently 180 degree'd on egg yolks, now says they don't increase chances of cardiac disease, in fact egg yolks are good for you.

speaking of eggz here's a new word i learned yesterday. Flaugnarde. For plugging, peterk, rusty & any others who practice Real Cooking, a flaugnarde is a clafoutis - an eggy custard - that's made with any fruit other than cherries. Wild blackberries & other brambles would be delicious. A flaugnarde could even be made w pears or apples.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You make food sound so delicious humble..........so I made up a menu from tonite's dinner that my wife prepared, read it to her and thanked her for it.

Tonights dinner was the perfect summer fare, consisting of golden roasted baby potatoes smothered in an olive oil, garlic and mixed black pepper coating. Nestled beside the potatoes was a perfectly barbequed lean pork chop and a crisp salad of summer greens topped with Italian and herbs dressing. Dessert was a homemade rolled oatmeal pastry laced with sun dried raisins harvested from the finest Italian vines. A steaming cup of Columbian coffee finished the meal which was followed by an ounce of Jamaican rum, a perfect measure of classic Coca Cola, that was chilled by two cubes of ice.

Or.......we had pork chops, potatoes and a salad followed by a cookie, coffee and a drink.

I like your way much better and the results were a smile and a good laugh from my wife.

I have to thank her more often. Thanks for the reminder Humble.....


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

definitely appreciate the ^^ fine gueule menu. Potatoes are to be smothered, BBQ chops are to be lean, salads are to be crisp w green herbs, etc

i do hope missus sags looks in on here from time to time, if only to support the troops as they deflect the slings & arrows of misguided fortune


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I tried it once and didn't really like the taste. Good old regular burgers for me. Not something I would invest in.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

Humble, I’ll be in Montreal in October, where do I crash for dinner?:excitement:


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> same old plant ingredients that have been known for decades to produce complete proteins when ingested?


I don't believe they are complete proteins, last I heard anyways ...


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> please correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a Beyond Burger just a tastes-more-like-beef-hamburger except it's made from the same old same old same old plant ingredients that have been known for decades to produce complete proteins when ingested?
> 
> ie the Beyond Burger's claim to fame is some fancy molecular taste re-positioning in the laboratory. But otherwise it's just a plain old legume.
> 
> ...



The Beyond Burger is junk food, just like a regular hamburger. No, they haven't found some new magical element with which to create it, but they have managed to make it taste very comparable to a beef burger. With a fraction of the environmental damage to the planet. Both Beyond, and a beef burgers are pro inflammatory and are damaging to human arteries and circulatory system. The difference between the two are probably negligible health wise. You do realize that most beef burgers are highly processed with plenty of their own "lab induced" chemicals and flavours too?

The science has not done a 180 on eggs, they are not considered healthy, even according to the USDA (whose job it is to promote and sell them). The science of nutrition has been corrupted by big business, (egg, meat, dairy, nut, olive oil and many others) have paid the majority of the "studies" we see on the media, and the studies are rigged and misinterpreted to favour their products. A quick google of "how the egg industry rigged their studies" might start you down a rabbit hole. All industries do it, and theres 3rd party companies they can hire to perform their studies for them, they promise favourable results if hired. After spending time reading nutritional studies, these ones are often easy to spot, but lately they are getting a lot more clever at hiding they're tracks.

https://www.pcrm.org/news/blog/how-egg-industry-funded-studies-harm-public-health

I'm not sure who these "nutritionists and cooks" are you are referring to, but personally I will follow the what the *independent* studies and science has shown for the last 60 years. That is a whole foods plant based diet, with as little processed food and animal products as possible, for optimal health and dramatic reduction (and even reversal) in most chronic diseases. No other diet has been scientifically proven to do this. This is as per well respected doctors Caldwell Esselstyn, Dean Ornish, Colin Campbell and many others who have been trying to get the word out, only to be drowned out by those with much greater reach and influence - who profit from the status quo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqKNfyUPzoU&t=26s

Judging by the global warming thread, and some folks trying to force carbon tax on others, I would think that those folks would embrace this change and not support one of the most destructive industries to our planet. It really is a simple decision if one chooses to eat these types of junk foods.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

cainvest said:


> I don't believe they are complete proteins, last I heard anyways ...


Yes they are. Not that it matters, unless someone was trying to survive strictly off these burgers.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

5Lgreenback said:


> personally I will follow the what the *independent* studies and science has shown for the last 60 years. That is a whole foods plant based diet, with as little processed food and animal products as possible, for optimal health and dramatic reduction (and even reversal) in most chronic diseases. No other diet has been scientifically proven to do this. This is as per well respected doctors Caldwell Esselstyn, Dean Ornish, Colin Campbell and many others who have been trying to get the word out, only to be drowned out by those with much greater reach and influence - who profit from the status quo.



an interesting trend is the extreme keto diet. Occasionally i drop in on the instaGram account of an ontario medical couple - husband is an MD - who eat nothing but meat & eggs from creatures they raise & slaughter themselves. For breakfast, the husband eats enough meat to feed a regular family of 4 for nearly a week (make that 2 small kids though, not 2 teenagers)

missus keto has attracted a gigantic following of accolytes from all over north america. She says the 100% grassfed bio meat diet has cured her Lyme disease when organized medicine could not.

my rough guess is that keto is expanding faster than veganism right now


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> an interesting trend is the extreme keto diet. Occasionally i drop in on the instaGram account of an ontario medical couple - husband is an MD - who eat nothing but meat & eggs from creatures they raise & slaughter themselves. For breakfast, the husband eats enough meat to feed a regular family of 4 for nearly a week (make that 2 small kids though, not 2 teenagers)
> 
> missus keto has attracted a gigantic following of accolytes from all over north america. She says the 100% grassfed bio meat diet has cured her Lyme disease when organized medicine could not.
> 
> my rough guess is that keto is expanding faster than veganism right now


You are correct it is expanding faster. This diet fad has all the big money behind it and several unqualified "experts" successfully pushing it. I know several people who have done it (strictly for weight loss), and had excellent short term results for both weight and blood profile numbers, but gained back all their weight and then some within a year along with their not so great blood numbers.

Keto has been shown to give really good short term results for weight loss, and even improve certain numbers on blood profiles, but these same numbers improve anytime someone is losing weight- on any diet. The problem is science shows its short term gain for long term pain and the weight will come back. The diet creates severe insulin sensitivity issues and wreaks havoc on ones arteries and heart. Not to mention a drastic increase in cancer and particularly colon cancer in men. Its a modified version of the Atkins diet- Dr. Atkins died of a heart attack.

I can't remember the name of the study, but back int 2013 or 2014 a study was released examining a WFPB diet versus a Keto diet (they didn't call it Keto as Keto wasn't a thing yet- but this was a high fat meat/ dairy diet). As expected by the experts, LDL cholesterol and atherosclerosis progressed rapidly in the "keto" group, as well as a host of other negative health markers. I don't recall what they said about WFPB group- but like most other studies it was probably along the lines of, Type 2 diabetes disappears, blood pressure medication no longer needed, type 1 diabetes insulin requirements drastically cut, less toxins found in the blood and healthy BMI achieved or maintained. 

It's really common sense, keto eliminates the ability to eat the healthiest foods known to man, and replaces them with bacon and eggs and steak. Of course its bad for you. And of course its an easier sell than "eat your veggies". Nobody gets rich writing a book about "The amazing power of Broccoli". But "Get skinny off Bacon" on the other hand....

As for your doctor friends on Keto thats not surprising, doctors aren't educated on nutrition. They are educated to give a pill for symptoms rather than look into the cause. In fact doctors are told that what you eat makes little to no difference, and this is a large part of the problem with healthcare.

Edit- should say drastic increase in cancer *risk**


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ Care to cite the study in question? Most 'high fat' diets in studies are not keto, they are maybe 50% fat instead of 40% fat (by calories), with a high proportion of carbohydrates. Also, a lot of studies rely on 'food frequency questionnaires', which are comically inaccurate for assessing diets (humans are very poor at accurately remembering and relaying their diets). 

Nothing about keto means 'no veggies'. Honestly, it is a lot of salad/leafy greens and broccoli and cauliflower, etc. You can only eat so much protein (hard to exceed 25-30% of calories), and most people are inclined to eat a fair amount of vegetables to replace the bread, etc. they used to eat.

Honestly, it sounds like you are maybe drinking some vegan koolaid. Vegans are highly motivated to find any evidence that supports their conclusion that meat is bad. A critical evaluation of the evidence is more nuanced. Veganism has its own downfalls, such as the need for careful supplementation of vitamins that are not readily found in plant foods, such as B12. You can't be a lazy vegan and maintain good health, and there are a plentitude of animal-free twinkie eating vegans who aren't models of health either. 

I don't know where you get the idea that no one gets rich pushing veganism. What is the title of this thread again? Not to mention cold pressed juice craze, etc. Lots of diet gurus selling supplements, etc.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Also, the claim that only veganism has been shown to reduce chronic illness (obesity, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, etc.) is patently false. Low carb/keto has a fairly robust body of evidence for being effective in this regard. It is being used clinically by Verta Health to dramatically reduce medication, weight, and complications of chronic illness. Show me a vegan outfit achieving the same results at the same scale, with the same level of rigor in demonstrating results. Whole food plant based works for some people, but vegans oversell it as the only path to health.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Certain plant based proteins may indeed contain all 9 essential amino acids and be labelled as "complete" BUT, not all complete proteins are created equal. Most plant based proteins have 1-3 limiting amino acids and must be combined with other foods in order to be considered a "good" source of protein. Plant proteins are also harder to digest, take an additional 10-15% off the bio-availability. Beyond meat does a good job by combining pea and rice protein in order to make an overall good amino acid profile for their burgers. BUT, they are still processed crap, similar to all the other processed crap in the world (animal and plant based) People eat way too much processed animal products so I'm all for creating a little more variety here as I don't think people are going to change their ways.

Problem is, people eat way too much processed crap and way too much food in general.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

I stand corrected, they actually do a "bad" job. There is no rice protein in their burgers. Must be in one of their other products...


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Synergy said:


> Certain plant based proteins may indeed contain all 9 essential amino acids and be labelled as "complete" BUT, not all complete proteins are created equal. Most plant based proteins have 1-3 limiting amino acids and must be combined with other foods in order to be considered a "good" source of protein.


This is what I remember, the majority of plants are not complete, only a very few were.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

andrewf said:


> Also, the claim that only veganism has been shown to reduce chronic illness (obesity, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, etc.) is patently false. Low carb/keto has a fairly robust body of evidence for being effective in this regard. It is being used clinically by Verta Health to dramatically reduce medication, weight, and complications of chronic illness. Show me a vegan outfit achieving the same results at the same scale, with the same level of rigor in demonstrating results. Whole food plant based works for some people, but vegans oversell it as the only path to health.



I have heard this all l before and have experimented with this style diet myself. Its the same rhetoric all over the internet (Perhaps some keto kool-aid?). 

I don't advocate for veganism, I advocate a WFPB diet. If someone doesn't care about their health, but cares about the environment and/or animal ethics then I would say sure go vegan and eat all the Oreos, Pepsi and Beyond burgers you want. And no, there is not much money to be made pushing a WFPB diet, most of the doctors pushing this info aren't making ANY money pushing this and have stellar reputations like the ones mentioned above. The cauliflower industry just doesn't have the money, or resources to push fake science like the dairy, meat and olive oil industries and even the nut industries do (please show me the hundreds- thousands of fake science studies published by big Broccoli?). The same cannot be said for latest the keto fad. My conclusions after much research with an open mind is that the keto diet is glorified "Joe Rogan-bro science" with a largely internet fuelled fad and people trying to capitalize on it like crazy- for fame and money. The long term results are yet to be determined, but the mechanisms on the body of animal product digestion are understood more everyday and it certainly doesn't look good (constricting of arteries, cancer promoting TMAO, inflammation, damage to the endothelial lining, stresses the kidneys etc, increased colon cancer risk- the most common cancer in men). And the science behind "saturated fat is now good for you" is insanity- dangerous insanity. 

Meat-eaters have to watch for b12 deficiencies as well, and the only reason they get B12 is because the majority of livestock is supplemented with it. IE they are supplementing indirectly.
If on a WFPB, eating a wide variety of veggies, fruits, leafy greens, seeds, nuts legumes and grains and spices, B12 is the only supplement I would take, most supplements are nonsense and do more harm than good. Lack of vitamins attack on WFPB is largely supplement industry nonsense and meat/ dairy industry fear mongering- putting out bogus science to scare people, and other people gobbling up this info as convenient confirmation bias. The overwhelming consensus is people following a WFPB diet have the best health markers and longest life expectancy.

I would like to see a Keto diet intervention proving to reverse hypertension- peer reviewed and widely accepted throughout the medical journals? Look up the doctors I mentioned above and you will find those exact studies- but WFPB. As stated, while losing weight on keto it might show cholesterol numbers temporarily improving, but soon enough LDL will get worse (sometimes it does right away) and no, increasing HDL at the same time has not proven counteract the effects of high LDL numbers on heart disease. Keto does NOT reverse type 2 diabetes, it masks symptoms because they are not eating carbs, and makes things worse because they are filling they're muscle cells with fat (which is what causes diabetes in the first place- not sugar) Give those people a sandwich and watch what happens on a glucose tolerance test.

I will look up the Verta Health haven't heard of them, and do some digging to find the study I mentioned earlier.

I am well aware of the issues raised with "questionaries" and "epidemiology" that people try to down play. Epidemiology is valid science and the skepticism about it is largely overplayed. If you have 100's of epidemiology studies showing the same thing, across all different spectrums of people and different scientific methods applied, and they still point to the same common theme in the end? Disregarding that field of science entirely would mean we would still be debating if smoking is healthy. Its a very powerful tool in the field of nutrition that is very difficult to study. But there are plenty of randomized controlled trails pointing to a WFPB diet as well. 


Synergy- I agree, way too much processed food, apparently Americans get 58% of they're calories from processed food. However the protein issue of plants and "incomplete proteins" is again a common but unfounded fear. 0.8 grams of protein per kg of body has been shown to be more than adequate and eating a varied diet will achieve that easily. Theres plenty of WFPB body builders out there proving this. And I've never seen or heard of anyone in North America hospitalized for protein deficiency, have you?

-Side note and anecdotal evidence yes. My Uncle has been calling me crazy for pursuing this "extreme" diet. He has been battling high blood pressure (progressing heart disease) for the last 20 years, he's of a very healthy weight and eats what most would consider a very healthy diet with real food and little to no processed food. But could not get his pressure in check. Reluctantly, he cut out dairy from his diet, and reduced meat/fish eggs down to a 3-4 servings per month total. Low an behold his blood pressure started dropping. Do you honestly think the Keto diet would drop his blood pressure? He was pretty much eating the Mediterranean prior to the change.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Synergy said:


> I stand corrected, they actually [Beyond Burgers] do a "bad" job. There is no rice protein in their burgers. Must be in one of their other products...




i'm also of the school that wonders how Beyond Burgers - derived from peas - offer complete proteins.

what we learned is that legumes lack one or more amino acids while grains lack a different amino acid; but when eaten together humans can metabolize a complete protein.

traditional diets the world over are based on this legume/grain combo. Asia, rice w soybeans. Indigenous peoples in north & south america, corn w beans. Middle east & africa, wheat w beans.

i have no idea what the inventors of Beyond Burgers have done with their peas. All we've read about so far are some fancy laboratory procedures.

is it possible that the "grain" required to form a complete protein together with the "peas" in Beyonds is provided by the hamburger bun? what an expensive joke that would turn out to be.

plant-based Impossible Foods & Nestle's soon-to-debut plant based meat products division are said to be using soybeans. Impossible says that soybeans tweak to produce better beef flavour in laboratories than peas.

as for the missing amino acids, i always remember them by diagonally crossing the letter "L," as in Grains-lack-Lysine-while-Legumes-lack-Methionine


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I know there are other factors, but decades ago people ate food they harvested from chemical free soil and had simple diets without the luxury of processed foods.

They passed away at much younger ages despite their "healthy" diets, perhaps because of illness but despite their diet and propensity for hard work and exercise.

Interesting that in Biblical times it is recorded that people lived for hundreds of years. Their diets would be a balance of grains, vegetables and meat, I would think.

Abraham the Biblical patriarch lived to be 175, according to the Biblical record., and others lived quite a bit longer. Methuslah is reported to have lived to the ripe old age of 969.

_Genesis 25:7:

And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years._

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methuselah

The difference seems to be where they were living. The Mediterranean diet may have a lot of merit.

I believe it is somewhere in Sicily where people have no artery or heart disease, despite a diet that we might believe is wrong.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags would u want to live to the age of 969 years though?

not much SWR life juice left there after the age of 100 i'd say .each:


back to the how-did-they-get-complete-protein-from-peas question, if they can tweak peas in laboratories to deliver complete proteins, surely the next step is that they should be able to tweak any old organic chemical compound.

perhaps recycled paper, for example, could be tweaked into edible food. Possibly even recycled plastics could be tweaked into tasty imitation beef hamburger patties.

outrageous idea but just saying. Sure does make one appreciate genuine good cooks like plugging, peterk & rusty. MP is a pretty good cook too, especially w fresh fish from his prawn traps, when he isn't out cruising the jurisprudence.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> back to the how-did-they-get-complete-protein-from-peas question, if they can tweak peas in laboratories to deliver complete proteins, surely the next step is that they should be able to tweak any old organic chemical compound.


According to this article (from June of this year) it didn't used to be a complete protein but they have tweaked the recipe and now it is, because they are combining rice, peas, and beans.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spudd said:


> According to this article (from June of this year) it didn't used to be a complete protein but they have tweaked the recipe and now it is, because they are combining rice, peas, and beans.




thankx Spudd ... use of rice or other grain would reassure me since i would know that we're still cooking on old-fashioned Grains-lack-Lysine-while-Legumes-lack-Methionine daylight savings time.

in other words ethan brown & his team at Beyond are hopefully not conjuring up entire whole proteins from beans alone in a california laboratory.

still, there are people like Synergy & others who have looked seriously & they're saying that there's no proof of rice or any other grain. Even Spudd's Verge article doesn't offer any solid links to the rice claim, it just says that rice is being used.

still, if they're not combining peas/legumes w a grain like rice to form whole protein, then what exactly are they doing in the frankenLab?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

From Beyond's website, here's the list of ingredients.

Water, Pea Protein Isolate*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Cocoa Butter, Mung Bean Protein, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Pomegranate Fruit Powder, Beet Juice Extract (for color)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Stock is down 19% today. It's getting back near the price it started publicly trading at.

http://schrts.co/ZmknxMrI


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Never bought this or any cannabis stocks.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Looks like it is following in the path of GPRO.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Dangit. Wasn't brave enough to short this like I wanted to try... Guess I didn't eat enough manly beef.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Heres more kindling to help the pea meal burn faster

https://www.ncba.org/newsreleases.aspx?NewsID=7076

The National Cattlemen’s Beef Association (NCBA) today applauded the bipartisan introduction of the Real MEAT (Marketing Edible Artificials Truthfully) Act of 2019 by U.S. Reps. Roger Marshall (R - 1st Dist., Kansas) and Anthony Brindisi (D - 22nd Dist., N.Y.)

“A growing number of fake meat products are clearly trying to mislead consumers about what they’re trying to get them to buy,” said NCBA President and Tennessee cattlewoman Jennifer Houston. “Consumers need to be protected from deceptive marketing practices, and cattle producers need to be able to compete on a fair, level playing field. We want to thank Congressmen Brindisi and Marshall for leading the way on this very important issue.”

Specifically, The Real Meat Act will:

*1.	Codify the Definition of Beef for Labeling Purposes*
•	Establish a federal definition of beef that applies to food labels;
•	Preserve the Congressional Intent of the Beef Promotion and Research Act; *2. Reinforce Existing Misbranding Provisions to Eliminate Consumer Confusion * 
•	FDA has misbranding provisions for false or misleading labels; 
•	Prevent further consumer confusion with alternative protein products; 
•	Clarify the imitation nature of these alternative protein products; 

*3.Enhance the Federal Government’s Ability to Enforce the Law *
•	FDA will have to notify USDA if an imitation meat product is determined to be misbranded; 
•	If FDA fails to undertake enforcement within 30 days of notifying USDA, the Secretary of Agriculture is granted authority to seek enforcement action. 
“Consumers should be able to rely on the information on food labels they see on the shelves to be truthful and not deceptive,” Rep. Marshall said. “For years now, alternative protein products have confused many consumers with misleading packaging and creative names for products. With this bill, consumers can be sure that the meat products they are buying are indeed real meat.”

“American families have a right to know what’s in their food,” Rep. Brindisi said. “Accurate labeling helps consumers make informed decisions and helps ensure families have access to a safe, abundant, affordable food supply. This bill is about safety and transparency, and will make sure that meat-lovers and vegans alike have the transparency and honest labels that can allow customers to make their own decisions.”

Of course Canada will be too stupid to do the same...


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Eder said:


> Of course Canada will be too stupid to do the same...


I suspect that the real motivation of the American regulatory changes is to erect/extend non-tarriff trade barriers, rather than to actually prevent mislabeling of imitation meat. They will do things like make it administratively impossible for the CFIA to issue compliant labeling.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well thats true, but Alberta has the best beef in the world...we wouldn't want stuff made out of peas called a type of beef...after all a lot of money has been spent marketing the product. I think Beyond Beef is beyond palatable so I think they should call it something else. 
Kind of like the margarine/butter thing.
Of course it will never happen ...


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Of course fake meats shouldn't be able to label themselves as real meat. But I have never seen a fake meat that did so. The fakeness is one of the selling points so it is usually trumpeted quite loudly on the label. 

Example, Beyond Meat Burgers label says "Beyond Meat Beyond Burger Plant-Based Burgers Simulated Beef Burgers Uncooked Contains No Meat". 

I would be curious to see if these cattlemen have a problem with the existing Beyond Burgers label or if they are just tilting at windmills.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Up 8.4% today. Come back or dead cat bounce?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> Well thats true, but Alberta has the best beef in the world...we wouldn't want stuff made out of peas called a type of beef...after all a lot of money has been spent marketing the product. I think Beyond Beef is beyond palatable so I think they should call it something else.
> Kind of like the margarine/butter thing.
> Of course it will never happen ...


Speaking of butter, the analogy would be 'I can't believe its not butter'. Seeing as that branding has withstood challenges from the Canadian dairy lobby, I can't see Beyond Meat having any problems.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Spudd said:


> Of course fake meats shouldn't be able to label themselves as real meat. But I have never seen a fake meat that did so. The fakeness is one of the selling points so it is usually trumpeted quite loudly on the label.
> 
> Example, Beyond Meat Burgers label says "Beyond Meat Beyond Burger Plant-Based Burgers Simulated Beef Burgers Uncooked Contains No Meat".
> 
> I would be curious to see if these cattlemen have a problem with the existing Beyond Burgers label or if they are just tilting at windmills.


What about the "lab grown" meat?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Speaking of butter, the analogy would be 'I can't believe its not butter'. Seeing as that branding has withstood challenges from the Canadian dairy lobby, I can't see Beyond Meat having any problems.


I see your point. I can't believe it is not beef seems somehow seems less false than Beyond Meat which implies better than Beef. There is no way these products are better or beyond. But I can't believe that anyone would eat this shite at elevated prices.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

kcowan said:


> I see your point. I can't believe it is not beef seems somehow seems less false than Beyond Meat which implies better than Beef. There is no way these products are better or beyond. But I can't believe that anyone would eat this shite at elevated prices.


It's a matter of perspective. Vegans think meat is poison...


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)




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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ It comes across as people feeling rather threatened but pretending not to be.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beyond Meat Products Pulled From Tim Hortons Canada Restaurants

Sounds like there isn't much interest


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think its more that Burger King is using a different non meat patty and most likely they'll both use the same stuff.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

stk showing surprising strength at $115 & change

at the height of the BYND bubble mania last year, the only broker in the whole of canada that was able to provide shares for shorting was Interactive

their shorting fee? a mere 400% of market


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