# Rememberance day a stat holiday enough already



## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Canada needs to get rid of stat holidays not get more of them. Where does all the money come from to pay the government employees to cover the stat holiday pay? Independent workers in the private sector that get no benefits end up paying for the free lunch for the stat holiday of the government employees. Workers get a free lunch from productive business men that supply workers with a job. There are no free lunches someone has to pay the piper. The country needs to get rid of stat holidays or people should not get paid extra for stat holidays & perhaps given a choice if they want day off without pay or work the day. The free hand outs on the backs of the productive of this country needs to end.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Let me guess ... you're retired! 

I'll have to disagree, we need more stat holidays ... one per month would be enough for me, well .... and two at xmas.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

lonewolf said:


> Canada needs to get rid of stat holidays not get more of them. Where does all the money come from to pay the government employees to cover the stat holiday pay? Independent workers in the private sector that get no benefits end up paying for the free lunch for the stat holiday of the government employees. Workers get a free lunch from productive business men that supply workers with a job. There are no free lunches someone has to pay the piper. The country needs to get rid of stat holidays or people should not get paid extra for stat holidays & perhaps given a choice if they want day off without pay or work the day. The free hand outs on the backs of the productive of this country needs to end.


 ... fat chance that stat holidays will be reduced for the public sector. Perhaps Remembrance Day should NOT be made a stat "holiday" - what is there to celebrate?


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Can u provide any support for this?

As far as I have been reading is that Sweden is lowering the hours worked in a week suggesting their employees will have more productivity. 
Not to mention the increased moral and time with their family (support system)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Let me guess ... you're retired!
> 
> I'll have to disagree, we need more stat holidays ... *one per month would be enough for me*, well .... and two at xmas.


 ... fat chance too ... :biggrin: Btw, you're getting 2 stats holi-days at Christmas + Boxing day.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am retired.........but more time off for those who work please..............

What shall we do..........work to live.....or live to work.....?

It should be noted that many public service workers are on duty on all holidays.

Police, fire, hospitals, military, to name a few..........


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I both agree & disagree with lonewolf.
It is a proven fact that more downtime helps with productivity, and reduces work-related illnesses, etc.
It is also a proven fact that Canada has one of the lowest downtimes in the G8, above only the US.

However, it is also true that the _net_ effect of this will be simply more holidays for our already over-paid, skiving public sector.
Most private sector employers, esp. small businesses, will react negatively to this and simply end up cutting regular vacation or other PTO allowances for employees.
When Ontario introduced the _Family Day_, in 2009, many small businesses & companies reacted by reducing 1 vacation day or sick day allowance.
Same is going to happen this time around.

The firm I work for is headquartered in the US.
Our American management is strongly resentful of the higher number of stat holidays we have in Canada.
But the truth is that most of that is myth & misperception.

Canada has only 2 stat holidays more than the US (depending on which ones you count).
I believe if you count, Martin Luther Day and/or President's Day, that advantage goes away.

Yet, there is common misperception and resentment among American employees (of cross-border firms) that their Canadian counter-parts enjoy dozens of extra holidays.

Where many companies have been cutting sick days and personal vacation time allowances in the private sector since 2008, the trend is the exact opposite in the Canadian public sector.
Average number of sick days now number between 15 and 20 (i.e. 3 to 4 weeks), with teachers getting the highest - in addition to nearly 3 months off regular time because of Summer, Spring, and Winter breaks.
Screaming unfairness, most other public sector unions have negotiated to bump up their sick day allowances.

Many other types of PTOs have been invented and piled on top of this, such as WLBs, floater days, flex religious days, etc.
Essentially, it is layers upon layers of time off in the public sector - precisely lonewolf's point above.

No wonder public sector compensation costs are so high and bankrupting public coffers at all levels of govt.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

SheaButters said:


> Can u provide any support for this?
> 
> As far as I have been reading is that Sweden is lowering the hours worked in a week suggesting their employees will have more productivity.
> Not to mention the increased moral and time with their family (support system)


We should be copying successful Nordic/Scandinavian examples more and the failing US examples less, in my opinion.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

More stat holidays means more handouts and that will mean higher cost of goods and services for everyone.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Agree with you Harold, on the layering on of "holidays" or days from work.

But, it happens in the private sector as well.

In the auto industry, we had so many days off.........it was ridiculous.

For someone with 25 years service..........5 weeks holidays,.... all the stat holidays,.... Dec 24 to Jan 2,.... 9 personal paid holidays.........

There were so many people choosing to work holidays for the extra money........the company had to force people to take 2 weeks of holidays, the last two weeks of the year to comply with Provincial legislation. I remember the company "walking people out" who were told not to come in and still came in.

It made it hard for the union to justify the holidays to GM.........when so many were choosing to work for money instead of taking the time.

When hard times hit and the union had to give up concessions, a bunch of holidays were taken away, and most of the concerns I heard wasn't about that.........it was about keeping our pensions.

People aren't entirely stupid..........but they will get away with whatever they can.

In my mind, it is up to the employer to say no. You can't expect the people to refuse something that is offered to them.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I recently had one of my friends in the public sector (an Ontario provincial agency) tally up the total PTO he is allowed to officially take.
Here is what he came up with:

- 11 Stat Holidays (NY Day, Family Day, Good Friday, Easter Monday, Victoria Day, Canada Day, Civic Holiday, Labor Day, ThanksGiving, Christmas, Boxing Day)
- 25 days vacation (i.e. 5 weeks)
- 20 sick days (i.e. 4 weeks)
- 6 WLB days (i.e. once every other month)
- 2 Floater Days

Total = 64 days.

He is waiting for the completion of 10 yrs. (in 1.5 years time) when he will get an additional 1 week of vacation, bringing the total to 69 days.
That is over _3 months _off per year.

Anecdotal evidence, of course, but this is, give or take, pretty standard among provincial public sector and crown corps.

Note that this is official PTO.
In addition, there is virtually unlimited AWOL time.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

For me I do not take holidays,for most another day off is ok

Have not taken a day off in many years,that said I work 3 days a week so 4 off

Started my retirement plans in my 20`s,now 54,will stop working in 2016,at that time I will enjoy the rest,,,,


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... fat chance too ... :biggrin: Btw, you're getting 2 stats holi-days at Christmas + Boxing day.


Just wanted to state two at xmas after the one a month, didn't want them moving one away to some other time!
We already scored a new holiday in Feb ... only two more to go, one in June and the other in the none easter month.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... fat chance that stat holidays will be reduced for the public sector. Perhaps Remembrance Day should NOT be made a stat "holiday" - what is there to celebrate?


I don't see why they should make it a full day holiday. Only the Federal gov't and banks get it off now, maybe the libraries. Most business may open after 12;30pm as courtesy. 

After 12pm, the Rememberance ceremony is over , if everyone gets the day off, how many will observe it?..
or perhaps use it as another shopping day...then it could lose it's meaning over the years. Then somebody
will want to rename it because they are new immigrants and have no ties to the past.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

carverman said:


> I don't see why they should make it a full day holiday. Only the Federal gov't and banks get it off now, maybe the libraries. Most business may open after 12;30pm as courtesy.
> 
> After 12pm, the Rememberance ceremony is over , if everyone gets the day off, how many will observe it?..
> or perhaps use it as another shopping day...then it could lose it's meaning over the years. Then somebody
> will want to rename it because they are new immigrants and have no ties to the past.


Not a bad idea Carverman,

The 1/2 day holiday would stand out from the rest, and hopefully people would remember why they are off work.

School kids could attend Rememberance Day ceremonies with their parents, and then return to school to talk about it.

Shutting down the country for 1/2 day to remember.........is a small price to pay.

Perhaps even take 1/2 a day from Family Day...........the afternoon............to make it the same cost over the year ?

I agree with Jon Stewart, who has given some recent interviews.........that the military is held up in high esteem when they are needed during times of trouble, but after the action dies down.........5 years later, the veterans are suffering and forgotten.

We need to honor our veterans........and to never forget.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Lol Norway...a socialist welfare state....income tax of almost 50% inspite of all their petro revenue (some of which is taxed up to 75%)...no thanks, Canada is much better.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

sags said:


> ......that the military is held up in high esteem when they are needed during times of trouble, but after the action dies down.........5 years later, the veterans are suffering and forgotten.


Tommy http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

carverman said:


> Only the Federal gov't and banks get it off now, maybe the libraries. Most business may open after 12;30pm as courtesy.


And oil companies :biggrin:


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## gimme_divies (Feb 12, 2011)

I'll gladly trade in my day off next Tuesday for Family Day which I do not get off as a Federal public servant.

BTW, PeterK, the Oil companies ARE the Federal Gov't, hence why they also get it off :biggrin:


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

lonewolf said:


> Canada needs to get rid of stat holidays not get more of them. Where does all the money come from to pay the government employees to cover the stat holiday pay? Independent workers in the private sector that get no benefits end up paying for the free lunch for the stat holiday of the government employees. Workers get a free lunch from productive business men that supply workers with a job. There are no free lunches someone has to pay the piper. The country needs to get rid of stat holidays or people should not get paid extra for stat holidays & perhaps given a choice if they want day off without pay or work the day. The free hand outs on the backs of the productive of this country needs to end.


The spirit of Ebenezer Scrooge is alive and well I see.

Remembrance Day is already a statutory holiday in the federal jurisdiction, and in 6 of 10 provinces. So most "government employees" outside of the jurisdiction of Ontario and Quebec already have the holiday, and have nothing to gain from this proposal. As noted by another poster, government employees have quite generous leave benefits, even in provinces where Nov.11 is not a Stat. holiday. In the current economic climate it is quite likely that Remembrance Day would simply be substituted for one of their current "extra" leave days if it was declared a Stat. holiday, at no difference in cost to the employer.

It's the poor private sector worker who would benefit most. Though his grasping, heartless employer might not like it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> Tommy http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html


Amazing poem that says it all.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The recent treatment of veterans in Canada has been disgraceful.

The Royal Canadian Legion, Veterans Canada website, federal ombudsman, numerous reporters.........have all shed light on the subject. 

Deny, ignore and delay.............are the highlights of our treatment of veterans.

Good thing the veterans didn't "deny, ignore and delay" when they were called to put their lives on the line for this country.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I had no idea it was _not_ a stat holiday in Ontario. It's always been a stat in BC. I don't think that having one stat holiday per month is unreasonable, so I fail to see what the fuss is about. As mentioned, Canada already has one of the lowest rates of time off in the developed world.


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## AudiS4 (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't think saying country X has more holidays so we should is reasonable thinking. It just isn't that simple, population size, taxes, economy, population density, debt need to be considered. and who is worrying about the productivity of countries like the U.S. or Norway etc. That might be looking a bit too much in the rear view mirror. Of course this is just another faceless poster's opinion.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Your english is terrible. Please organize your thoughts.


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## martin15 (Feb 18, 2014)

carverman said:


> I don't see why they should make it a full day holiday. Only the Federal gov't and banks get it off now, maybe the libraries. Most business may open after 12;30pm as courtesy.
> 
> After 12pm, the Rememberance ceremony is over , if everyone gets the day off, how many will observe it?..
> or perhaps use it as another shopping day...then it could lose it's meaning over the years. Then somebody
> will want to rename it because they are new immigrants and have no ties to the past.


Yes, a half day stat would work best.
And strongly encourage people to be somewhere at a commemoration 11am.


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## AudiS4 (Sep 11, 2013)

Slacker, I have a disability, thank you for your help.


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## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

I think each province is different, and the Federal government differs too, but here in Alberta Remembrance Day is a stat holiday (as it should be), but Boxing Day and Easter Monday are not.

My boss gave us the option of working Remembrance Day and taking January 2 off in lieu. Uh ... no thanks!

I also think that the months with no stat seem very long, but I'm not sure it's fair to make small businesses pay for two more stat days. Now as for government employees ... don't even get me started.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

martin15 said:


> Yes, a half day stat would work best.
> And strongly encourage people to be somewhere at a commemoration 11am.


I'm old enough to remember when that was the norm, even in the federal jurisdiction. So now you would like to set the labour standards clock back about 40 years? (Actually, I suspect that would appeal to some of our members. In fact why stop at 40? Let's roll it back a 100 years. Times were so much better when employees had no such things as "rights" or "benefits".) 

And 40 years ago provincial or municipal laws commonly required stores not to open until after 11:00. But God forbid that merchants should lose a minute of pre-Christmas sales!


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

There are people still walking around with pieces of shrapnel stuck in them from the experience of war.
My great-grandfather died in Italy in 1944 after leaving my great-grandmother and grandfather in 1940 to serve. He was 30 years old. My great-grandmother got a telegraph informing her of his death and received his medals. THAT was her “closure”. She never even got to visit his grave, which is located at a Canadian War Memorial in Italy.

Working in a bank, I used to get Rememberance Day off. If I couldn’t make it to a Rememberance Day service, I would turn on the radio at home and listen to it. And when they played the moment of silence, I stood there, alone in my house, and I reflected on and gave thanks for those who gave me the freedom to do that.
This year, I work for a company who it is not a stat holiday for. I am hoping they will let me go the service. If they don’t, I will step aside for a few minutes at 11:00 and, by myself, honour those who deserve it.

People should be able to have the choice to attend Rememberance Day services. It is a shame that Family Day was established as a holiday in Ontario before a day to honour our veterans.

Forget the economics and number of holidays we already have. Almost everyone has a story of a relative who served in war. It should not be forgotten. I like the idea of a ½ day if need be…Memorial service at 11:00, lunch at 12:00 and businesses back up at 1:00. Not a bad compromise.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

AudiS4 said:


> Slacker, I have a disability, thank you for your help.


I strongly suspect he was referring to the original poster and not to you. Your post's English seems fine to me.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I'm just disappointed that the OP didn't update us on how Jupiter's and Saturn's parallel orbit's have increased the likelihood that Remembrance Day will in fact be made into a stat holiday.


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## Woz (Sep 5, 2013)

Seems like a non-factor to me. One extra day off per year is less than a 0.5% raise.

Also isn’t it the norm for stat days to be paid time off in public and private companies. I’ve worked for 6 companies, 5 private, and 1 public. All of them had stat days as paid time off except for one which was double pay.


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