# f****'n' Westjet again...



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Wife & I booked a little trip to Flarida in May awhile back, just to get somewhere warm.
Chose WJ because they had a nice, convenient non-stop return flight from tampa to yyt, one day a week, sundays., leave 8am arrive 2pm.
Woke up today to get an email from wj...guess what ? scheduling change, the direct flight has been cancelled! called them & now on another flight, later departure, 3 1/2 hour layover in toronto, get home around 1am mon.
about 10+hr trip, vs 4hr direct!
I'll get after them, but thought I'd post here for any comment, suggestions?
The flight change will cost me money: meals in TO airport, an extra night's boarding charge for our dog, and because we arrive 1am, now have to get taxi instead of sister picking us up at airport. I figure about $200.
Do I have any options for getting compensation from wj? for these expenses?
or is it a "good luck with THAT" situation? any comments?
bast***ds!


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

You wont get any compensation out of them. Their policy is if they change your flight from your point of origin, there is no compensation. Happened to us in Halifax over Christmas this year. Flew from Yellowknife to Halifax for 2.5 weeks. They cancelled and moved our flight back home to the next day as everyone was waiting in the check in line and we got nothing as well. We argued that it's not our place of origin, we don't live here. Yeah, they don't care. We made it home after 3 flights and 18 hours of travel but our bags didn't. Four days later they arrived. 

Westjet and Air Canada seem to cancel 15-20% of their flights every month now. Perhaps that will change with restrictions being lifted and warmer weather on the way.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

from what I could tell, this particular flight was sold out, or just about sold out. why would they cancel it now?

how come the airlines can seem to get away with doing whatever they want - without penalty;
yet, if a passenger tries to change one little thing, they don't allow it OR you're penalized & have to pay thru the nose or lose money for making changes!?

and their "over-booking" should be outlawed!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> from what I could tell, this particular flight was sold out, or just about sold out. why would they cancel it now?
> 
> how come the airlines can seem to get away with doing whatever they want - without penalty;
> yet, if a passenger tries to change one little thing, they don't allow it OR you're penalized & have to pay thru the nose or lose money for making changes!?
> ...


Because they're near monopolies.
If they want to act this way, that's fine, but no government bailouts, and no government bans on competition.
For other regulated industries where the government bans competition, they typically have regulations regarding customer treatment.

Also by screwing over customers, they save money to keep their prices low. Which honestly is our fault, since many of us "sort by price".


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

jargey3000 said:


> Wife & I booked a little trip to Flarida in May awhile back, just to get somewhere warm.
> Chose WJ because they had a nice, convenient non-stop return flight from tampa to yyt, one day a week, sundays., leave 8am arrive 2pm.
> Woke up today to get an email from wj...guess what ? scheduling change, the direct flight has been cancelled! called them & now on another flight, later departure, 3 1/2 hour layover in toronto, get home around 1am mon.
> about 10+hr trip, vs 4hr direct!
> ...


Two suggestions 1. Can you cancel the ticket and get a full refund, then book on something more convenient? Your cancellation policy will be the terms in effect when you paid for the ticket. Not what's posted now. 
2. Check your travel insurance and credit card benefits.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

When I ran into similar situation with Spirit (they refused to put me on morning flight after cancellation a day before, costing me a day of business), I was told they are obliged to get me to destination within 24h of scheduled time before I am eligible for any compensation. They got me there in 23h15m


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

That happened to me with a Sunwing flight several years ago. I specifically chose them because they had a direct flight at an ideal time. About a month prior to flying, they changed the booking, adding a connecting flight.

When I complained, their reply was that they are allowed to do that because these are chartered flights.

I asked how I can book an un-chartered flight to avoid this in the future........crickets.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> how come the airlines can seem to get away with doing whatever they want - without penalty;


When you buy anything else in the whole world, which retailers do you expect "penalty" for when it turns out your item isn't available as first advertised, isn't as good as you thought it would be, or arrives late?

It boggles my mind how it's become such a ubiquitous hobby for Canadians to complain about airlines and create their lists of grievances and outrageous expectations for service and perfection to be provided by the airlines, at rock bottom prices.

It's got to be one of the most complex operations in all of industry to pull off successfully. Stringent and complex mechanical and safety requirements, licensure and strict operating rules for the pilots, interacting with the real world planet, globally, for weather & navigation issues, as well as all the different world government requirements and border security whims, airport authorities. etc. And a lovely service with food and beverage, no delays, and arrival across the entire world, in comfort, in a half-day, for <$1000, is the general expectation of the customer...It's a miracle it ever goes smoothly. Sure it would be great if nothing went wrong ever, and we could all teleport around the world for free... but get real.

If you don't like it, then go ahead and drive for 2 days to your nearest port, take a ship across the ocean for 12 days, and pay $10,000 for your grueling and arduous journey.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

By the way. Westjet only canceled the flight for you. They did not cancel the flight for them. They just repriced it. You see when they priced the flight back in May, the fuel price they expected to pay to get that airplane to where you wanted it to go was a lot cheaper. Since those fuel prices have risen dramatically lately they figured out a way to not lose money on flying you to Florida. They just cancel your flight and then scheduled that plane for new flights, at higher rates. 

That is what happened. I won't get into whether it is right or wrong because, lets face it, it is wrong. But knowing how this works can sometimes be helpful in the future.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

peterk said:


> When you buy anything else in the whole world, which retailers do you expect "penalty" for when it turns out your item isn't available as first advertised, isn't as good as you thought it would be, or arrives late?
> 
> It boggles my mind how it's become such a ubiquitous hobby for Canadians to complain about airlines and create their lists of grievances and outrageous expectations for service and perfection to be provided by the airlines, at rock bottom prices.
> 
> ...


If you book a hotel and when you get there its no longer available, you accept it and happily look for another one? What about when the car you rent is no longer available? And best of all, you manage to get on a plane only to be escorted out because the flight was oversold.

Call it whatever you want but an airline's first mandate is to book flights and honor them. It sure is complicated which is why we don't just book our own flights directly with a pilot.

Maybe you work in the airline industry and wish to defend it. I get that. But proper service is expected from any industry. So yeah, if you allow me to pick and choose which flight I want to be on, the expectation is that I end up on that flight.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> Wife & I booked a little trip to Flarida in May awhile back, just to get somewhere warm.
> Chose WJ because they had a nice, convenient non-stop return flight from tampa to yyt, one day a week, sundays., leave 8am arrive 2pm.
> Woke up today to get an email from wj...guess what ? scheduling change, the direct flight has been cancelled! called them & now on another flight, later departure, 3 1/2 hour layover in toronto, get home around 1am mon.
> about 10+hr trip, vs 4hr direct!
> ...


You can try calling your credit company and requesting a chargeback. The service provider wasn’t able to deliver what you agreed to.

Thats how I got $10,000+ back from flights that were cancelled when COVID first hit. Not the same situation, but you can try the chargeback route.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

As of now, I dont really want to cancel the trip. After I called, they did put us on other flights, as I mentioned.
My query is: are there any remedies for getting reimbursed for these additional expenses I will incur as a result of their arbitrary cancellation?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Suing?


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Similar story as everyone else here.

My wife found discount flights to mexico. 1 stop. Pulled the trigger. Mentioned it to me and I pushed her to get direct flights. No problem. Paid a few hundred more. Good to go.

Guess how it turned out? Lol!

No direct. No refund.

WJ had some other undesirable behaviours, also.

I'm still OK with WJ but I think AC is as good, now that they have stopped being assholes.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I'm sitting in a diner, waiting on a buddy to show for lunch. Figured I would share a slightly negative WJ story on CMF (above) to kill some time.

Meanwhile, two guys in the next booth are talking about how lousy WJ has become. Holy cow, one of the guys is really worked up about a reservation problem.

Lol.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Mortgage u/w said:


> *If you book a hotel and when you get there its no longer available, you accept it and happily look for another one? What about when the car you rent is no longer available?* And best of all, you manage to get on a plane only to be escorted out because the flight was oversold.
> 
> Call it whatever you want but an airline's first mandate is to book flights and honor them. It sure is complicated which is why we don't just book our own flights directly with a pilot.
> 
> Maybe you work in the airline industry and wish to defend it. I get that. But proper service is expected from any industry. So yeah, if you allow me to pick and choose which flight I want to be on, the expectation is that I end up on that flight.


But that's not what happens... It would be like your hotel emailing you, way ahead of time, and saying "very sorry but this location is unexpectedly and temporarily shut down during your stay, but we'll accommodate you at our nearest other location as best we can". So yes I would just move on and happily look for another one, or take their alternative arrangement offer.

I'll give it to you that overbooking is sleazy. Bumping people off the plane at the airport is not the same as plenty-of-notice communications that they can't provide the flight.

No I don't work in the airline industry.

My point is is that I find it odd and funny that it seems to be the airline industry that gets the most flack, while trying to provide one of the most complex services imaginable, which still far, far exceeds the efficiency and low cost of any other transportation method out there no matter how bad the service is. And many people's first reaction is that government intervention with "passenger right", fines, etc, will solve all the problems... People are delusional about how a functioning advanced industrial society operates, and it shows when they complain about needing to sit at the airport for 3 unexpected hours and buy themselves a $50 lunch, thinking that their MP needs to intervene and rectify this injustice that they've just been subjected to...

All that said, to be both more optimistic and pessimistic, I think that the widespread complaining about airlines is actually quite the piece manufactured media outrage. Probably the sentiment bemoaning airlines is not so naturally widespread among the populace. But politicians sure do love their media opportunities to say that they're "representing" the people and our grievances against big business, and will gladly put on a show to slam the airlines to solicit your future vote.


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## MrsPartridge (May 15, 2016)

Check out the Passenger Bill of Rights and see if there's something you can do. Passenger Rights.


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## Fisherman30 (Dec 5, 2018)

peterk said:


> But that's not what happens... It would be like your hotel emailing you, way ahead of time, and saying "very sorry but this location is unexpectedly and temporarily shut down during your stay, but we'll accommodate you at our nearest other location as best we can". So yes I would just move on and happily look for another one, or take their alternative arrangement offer.
> 
> I'll give it to you that overbooking is sleazy. Bumping people off the plane at the airport is not the same as plenty-of-notice communications that they can't provide the flight.
> 
> ...


Let's not forget that pretty much zero help was given to airlines by the government while on a whim, the government imposed insurmountable restrictions on the entire industry with almost no notice at all on numerous occasions. This led to airlines in many cases having to lay off upto 80% of their staff, while still operating at huge losses just to be able to maintain some level of service. Now, as restrictions ease, airlines are trying very hard to get the necessary staff back to handle the demand, and be able to operate all of these flights. It's an extreme challenge. Again, all while having effectively no assistance from the government. In the US, the CARES act basically allowed airlines in the US to be able to scrape by enough that they didn't have to completely slash their entire operation during covid, that so when demand returned, they were fairly easily able to ramp back up to pre-covid levels of operations. 

I do absolutely empathize with your situation though. Just trying to highlight some of the challenges the industry has been faced with over the last 2 years.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> By the way. Westjet only canceled the flight for you. They did not cancel the flight for them. They just repriced it. You see when they priced the flight back in May, the fuel price they expected to pay to get that airplane to where you wanted it to go was a lot cheaper. Since those fuel prices have risen dramatically lately they figured out a way to not lose money on flying you to Florida. They just cancel your flight and then scheduled that plane for new flights, at higher rates.
> 
> That is what happened. I won't get into whether it is right or wrong because, lets face it, it is wrong. But knowing how this works can sometimes be helpful in the future.


How do you figure? The OP already paid for the original flight. WJ didn't ask him for more money for the rebooked flights. His extra costs are outside the flights incurred because of the rebooking/schedule change.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

diharv said:


> How do you figure? The OP already paid for the original flight. WJ didn't ask him for more money for the rebooked flights. His extra costs are outside the flights incurred because of the rebooking/schedule change.


If they had of asked Jargey for $100 more per ticket, what do you think his reaction would have been?

I can't say for sure what is going on but I doubt Westjet cancelled those flights and plan to just leave their jets empty on the runway. There are a lot of people wanting to travel these days.

So if you ran an airline and you were faced with this dilemma. You could keep the scheduled flight and lose "X" amount of dollars because of the ridiculously high cost of fuel these days. You are not going to get any extra money out of Jargey, so you do the next best thing. You cancel the flight. Reschedule the plane to another route. Open up your bookings and fill that bird with higher paying customers. Problem solved.

Since all airlines are cancelling flights these days there is probably little long term damage done but Westjet will deal with that later. Right now they got a business to run and making money is a big part of that job.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I travel a lot even during the pandemic I was flying domestically. As such I have had opportunity to talk to various airline staff (ticket agents, pilots, flight attendants, ground crew etc.) It has been quite a tumultuous period for this industry. Many staff have been laid off, left the industry etc. Uncertainty over travel restriction has resulted in operating with uncertainty. Many people thought that as soon as restriction were lifted things would immediately return to status quo (which had these same issues just to a lesser degeree). During the past two years I have had the majority of my flights rescheduled and could share similar experiences to the ones on this thread. There are numerous reasons for rescheduling. Many airlines needed to cut costs significantly. Imagine loosing 90% of your business for two years while still trying to operate. A lot of airlines did not renew leases on aircraft, laid off staff etc. One would think that planning as far out as May would be easy to navigate but it may not. Just like every other industry there may be supply chain issues. As mentioned elsewhere, there is a lot of regulation and safety checks that need to be done. I would prefer to know in advance rather than the day of travel or days before. From talking to other frequent flyers and those in the industry, I have come to the conclusion you either accept the change and additional costs or you cancel your trip and rebook. It's not the desired outcome you are seeking Jargey but for now it is our reality. Hopefully, in time these things do not occur as frequently but my expectation is air travel will be different post pandemic for a lot of reasons. We will see fewer flights, higher prices and continued interruptions while the industry restablizes.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> Since all airlines are cancelling flights these days there is probably little long term damage done but Westjet will deal with that later. Right now they got a business to run and making money is a big part of that job.


That is probably so but WJ seems to be the one making the most news about this kind of thing the last couple of years, inflamed by the no refund fiasco. I think they had a reputation for not keeping to schedules even before the pandemic so I have basically tried to avoid booking with them as much as possible.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

My neighbour recently sat in a plane on the tarmac for over an hour….until they noticed that they didn’t have an available pilot. Everybody off and rebooked. 

flights are also getting crazy expensive. We booked a trip about a month ago. Price has gone up 50% this week.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

In the past I did a great deal of travel in Westjet's prime patch at the time....western Canada. As did many of the people I worked with.

The only time I found Westjet fares to be less expensive than AC was during the first year of start up. After that they were the same or more.

Strangest thing that every happened to me on Westjet was a Winnipeg gate clerk suggesting after a flight delay to Calgary that I fly to Toronto and then fly back to Calgary.

I did not bother with the geography lesson. I selected the soon to depart Regina flight that went on to Calgary. Besides that I had come from Toronto the day before and a huge snowstorm was poised to dump on the GTA at the same time she was recommending that route.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

What the airlines tell you and what they are legally required to do are often different.
Know your rights and the legal requirements and you can call BS on them when applicable.






Flight Delays and Cancellations: A Guide | Canadian Transportation Agency


New refund regulations are now in effect for flights that are cancelled or have long delays due to a situation outside the airline’s control. The new regulations apply to flights taken on or after September 8, 2022. Airport congestion and flight issues What passengers need to know about delays...




otc-cta.gc.ca


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## Faramir (11 mo ago)

Funny I just talked to my mom who is back from Palm Springs and she said she would never do WJ again. They had to run to get their connecting flights.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

nobleea said:


> What the airlines tell you and what they are legally required to do are often different.
> Know your rights and the legal requirements and you can call BS on them when applicable.
> 
> 
> ...


a lot of this this refers to what happens when the airline notifies you of a cancellation within "14 days or less" of the scheduled departure date. Is there any remedy if they notify you more than 15 days out?
or are you then just out of luck, even though they've failed to deliver the service you've paid for, and you'll incur extra expenses as a result (as in my case)?


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Check out this site. They helped clarify things for me when COVID first hit. I emailed them and the founder responded. I’ve seen him on local news outlets, so I think he’s quite knowledagble. He’ll give you some advice I’m sure.









Gábor Lukács | Air Passenger Rights


Gábor is a Canadian air passenger rights advocate, who volunteers his time and expertise for the benefit of the travelling public. Since 2008, Gábor h...




airpassengerrights.ca


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

thanks money 👍


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

@jargey3000 Please update us of your pregress.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I've got to endorse Air Canada for their performance during the pandemic -- based on my trips with them anyway. Perhaps I just got lucky with the routes I was on.

I had 9 domestic AC flights so far in 2020 and 2021, including during the worst points of pandemic. I currently have 4 more flights booked this summer with them. I really think the airline did a good job, despite the short staffing and uncertainty. In cases where the flight situation went haywire (which happened twice for me so far) AC did a good job communicating to me. In the most recent one, early December with the new border chaos, the call center discouraged me from taking the flight. The agent was very straight with me about what I was getting into.

During some of the worst times, my flight was re-booked or consolidated (twice) as the airline cancelled empty flights and swapped in smaller aircraft. Air Canada communicated quite well during this and seemed to go out of their way to make sure I wasn't inconvenienced.

_Note however, that because I recognize we're travelling in uncertain times, I have also been VERY proactive about checking my flight status, logging in and checking up on my booking, etc._

Obviously I do have my complaints about AC like everyone else but I've gone out of my way *to only book with AC* during the pandemic, just because after the first couple of flights, I was really impressed with their expert handling during these bizarre situations. I also like how well the flight attendants manage the situation on the aircraft, make sure masks are properly being worn, etc.

So far, I've spent > $3,000 on Air Canada flights during the pandemic. Can't say I ever felt "locked down" by the way.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Also can I suggest, even for WestJet: cut them some slack. This has been a very tough environment for airlines. They've had layoffs and it's very hard for them to adapt to rapidly changing loads.

If you're flying during the pandemic, try to be flexible and keep in mind that you're choosing to travel during sub-optimal conditions. The airline and airport situation *is not normal*.

That's just the reality of the current day. It won't be like this forever, but it's an unstable situation right now.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

Air Canada, once the whipping boy of the Canadian airline industry has more than adequately been supplanted by Westjet. They are the Singapore Airlines of Canada now. Our March 2020 cancellation of a vacation package was handled almost perfectly after three hours on hold. Full refund. We are booked for Spain in September, with AC.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I just booke $700. plus on AC. Slightly more expensive that West but I could not get through to WJ to have a question answered. Less than 5M and I was speaking to an AC agent.

Plan to book the return flights on AC tomorrow when the dates are firm.

WJ desperately needs to upgrade their customer service.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

WestJet used to be so good. Using them was a pleasure. After landing, the bags would be on the carousel by the time you got there. The halcyon days.

Suffice to say, WJ has gone down a lot but still OK. Just OK.

Meanwhile, AC has gotten way, way better. We have found baggage has regularly been available on the carousel in way less time than WJ and the rest of their program has been brought up to a pretty good standard.

IMO, AC > WJ but not by a lot.

Interesting stories in here. Great thread.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I also made reservations on TAP Airlines An hour later.

Had to call them for their cancel/rebook info.

Less than a five minute hold time, got my specific question answered immediately. Then booked.

Painless. Call centres know the score. They can pull off hourly stats on call wait times, calls abandoned, time to resolve, subject, etc. Plus the usual after call customer surveys.

Calls abandoned stat is a killer on customer sat and lost business. It comes down to what parameters the management sets.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

WestJet is probably deteriorating after Onex (private equity) bought them in 2019. The new ownership probably started to influence WestJet in 2020.

It's an age old story. It's ruined so many good companies over the years.

As soon as I heard Onex bought WestJet, I knew it was going to harm the airline.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I have platinum status with WJ and elite with Air Canada. As most of my travel was Western Canadian departure I opted for WJ (more routes better flight times) but used AC enough as well. I will admit that I have seen delays with baggage with WJ even though I am supposed to have priority baggage on the past few flights. I didn't pay much attention as I saw other flights with baggage delays as well. I haven't had any issues with delays (beyond 10 -15 mins) in the past year and a half but did experience a lot of rescheduling with both carriers. Aside from one instance(trying to book a companion flight last fall) customer service wait times and service have been about the same. I think that the overall decline in service is applicable to the entire hospitality industry. People in general have mentioned a decline in service in all areas. I am not sure if it is because of covid hangover, a shortage of workers and additional stress as a result or if customers have also been more difficult in recent times. On a totally unrelated but positive note our family went out to a local restaurant on the weekend where we frequented a lot pre-pandemic. During Covid, we opted for takeout to support the business as well as enjoy the cuisine. The place was bustling but wait times were normal and the service was amazing! The cost had gone up but that is to be expected. It was great to get out and see some familiar faces. Back on topic I will be watching the service from both providers over the next while to see if there is any noticeable differences. My past experience with AC was that they treated their elite and super elite remarkably but not so much for less frequent travelers. I am not complaining as I wish my other service providers did more for regular customers than they do chasing new clientele.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Things are getting back to normal where we live. We have been to two of our favourite restaurants. We needed a reservation for one and there was a line-up. We have booked a spring trip to Portugal and have made tentative reservations for next winter in Thailand should that country open up. We will go somewhere in Sept/Oct if all is well..not certain where though.


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