# US eliminates TN for specialized nurses



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

TN is a work category under NAFTA that allows Canadian and US workers in certain professions to easily cross the border and work in the other country.

Apparently the US has started rejecting some advanced practice nurses and nurse anesthetists
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/canadian-nurses-working-in-us-rejected-1.4026554

I'm someone who currently works in the US under a different TN status -- engineer. This news makes me nervous that the US may suddenly deny me re-entry, which would make me unable to work. They could eliminate my category as well, or tighten the constraints around it.

How concerned should I be that my job might suddenly end due to US border rules? I think my employer would allow me to work from home (in Canada) for a few months but it would still spell the end of my employment.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I seem to recall that in past threads you were thinking you'd simply go with another type of visa ... though if as the article indicates, visa fast track programs are also cancelled, it may depend on whether your employer is willing to go the "employee in another country" for long enough to get a different visa applied for, processed and accepted.

AFAICT ... it's not the border rules but changes to the NAFTA visa categories.


Key question that would affect how concerned I would be, what discussions I would have with the US employer and any preparations I'd make is if this is confirmed to be a change out of the White House or whether it is a lower official running with what they think is coming.


You could also contact your MP to ask what Canada plans to do if the cancellations are expanded. I am not sure that Canada imports US / Mexican advanced practice nurses and nurse anesthetists so it is not clear if dropping the same categories would have much of an affect.


Interesting times ... glad I'm not using the TN visa program, though not having to file tax returns in two countries is a bonus as well.


Cheers


----------



## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

The recent case of the lady from Toronto who was told she needed a visa to enter the US suggests that *power crazed immigration officials are doing whatever the hell they want, because now they can*. I would certainly be concerned. This would be a good time not to travel, if possible. As for contacting your MP, I think Ottawa is going to be as well prepared as possible to renegotiate NAFTA, and I'm sure they are quite aware of this H1 refusal issue, but the only certainty is that the US government will be very unpredictable.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^

While it may spread to the H-1B visa ... there is nothing in the article to indicate an H-1B visa holder was turned back.

The references are all to TN visa holders under the NAFTA agreement, where the recommendation is to apply for a H-1B visa which is a more time consuming as well as costly process.


As both visas are under NAFTA, there's no guarantee the different flavour won't be disallowed in the future.


Cheers


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I think an important question is whether these are the activities/interpretations of just some border guards (who have lots of discretion) or if it really is an instruction from the top.

When I first went to the US and applied for a TN as an engineer, the border agent held me for about an hour and argued with me. The point he was trying to make is that my job in the US was not eligible under TN. I thought he was wrong, he thought he was right. My lawyer in the US thought he was wrong. But that lawyer can't weigh in on these debates... it's just between you and the border agent.

After threatening me a lot, that agent decided to allow my application. These individual border agents have lots of discretion and they don't have to answer to anyone.

From this article, it's not clear to me whether it's just some border agents being pissy, or whether they have received instructions to disallow this entire nurse category.


----------



## ebonflex (Mar 16, 2017)

That's interesting. Was this policy change publicized?
It kinda sounds like one of those "I am a border official, I make my own rules, hear me roar" things.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I think an important question is whether these are the activities/interpretations of just some border guards (who have lots of discretion) or if it really is an instruction from the top ... From this article, it's not clear to me whether it's just some border agents being pissy, or whether they have received instructions to disallow this entire nurse category.


Agreed ... though if it is a few individual border agents, one wonders why the Michigan's Council of Nurse Practitioners is contacting members for few unlucky nurses. The US employer did not comment in this article on how many but did pull in their immigration expert.

It would seem at least two groups are also wondering but aren't assuming it's a couple of individual agents.




james4beach said:


> When I first went to the US and applied for a TN as an engineer, the border agent held me for about an hour and argued with me. The point he was trying to make is that my job in the US was not eligible under TN. I thought he was wrong, he thought he was right. My lawyer in the US thought he was wrong. But that lawyer can't weigh in on these debates... it's just between you and the border agent.
> 
> After threatening me a lot, that agent decided to allow my application.


Interesting ... despite 90% of our group of consultants working in the US, the few that reported problems were questioned as to whether they were legitimately management consultants as they weren't dressed in what was considered appropriate apparel. The immigration expert advised me to wear suit to match the part then only after being granted the TN visa and well away from the agent approving the application (i.e. the airline gate) should I change into more reasonable traveling clothes.


Cheers


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I encountered problems (pre Trump) even though I was using a very straightforward TN category and I am a legitimate engineer, with a university degree from the Faculty of Engineering. I had the actual, original degree with me at the time. My lawyer was shocked that I encountered this much trouble.

I've been advised to avoid US customs at YVR and YYZ, the two busy airports. I've heard this advice about Toronto in particular going back many years.


----------



## Lost in Space 2 (Jun 28, 2016)

Man oh man it's been like this forever. Going back 20 plus years but we (or the wife) was considering a job in the states and we attended an overflowing semiar on issues crossing the border, guess a few people had been banned due to stupid mistskes and everyone was worried. whilemthis has always been an issue no question Trump has posted a hige "**** Off, you or your money isn't welcome here". For obvious reasons I didn't post that last sentence to FB


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There is no way in hell I am bringing my capital to the US to start a new business, as long as they are acting like this. There is a reason I left all my capital & investments up north.


----------



## Lost in Space 2 (Jun 28, 2016)

Some commenters on The Globe and National Post FB pages are rolling their eyes saying this is nothing new but this article from the New Yorker says otherwise

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...-ban-goes-into-effect-watch-the-border-agents


----------



## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

This Australian author thinks it's new:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-loathed-america-i-loathed-the-entire-country


----------



## yupislyr (Nov 16, 2009)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/canadian-nurses-us-border-work-visa-1.4030179

Work visas restored to specialized Canadian nurses working in U.S.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well it doesn't matter...I'm gonna freak out about some other useless thing anyway!!


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It appears that these TN denials were done in error.


----------

