# pnk-shirted lawyers with guns....



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

God knows I havent seen or read all the coverage on this latest story out of bizzarroland (aka The USA)....but have we become so blase that no one else seems to find it disturbing that a middle-aged lawyer in St. Louis would have a high-powered assault rifle lying around the house....?
"Honey, looks like we protestors at 1 o'clock! You grab the pistol, I got the AK-47. Let's roll!"
MAGA.....? some chance!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Look at her trigger finger. No bothering with a gun safety course for her obviously.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Armed thugs smashed down a private gate, trespassed, threatened to kill the couple and their dog, and when they step outside to defend themselves all jargey cares about is how they held their guns.

Just another brainwashed leftist who cherry picks one little insignificant detail and ignores the real crime.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....pguy...i dont think i said a word about "how they held their guns"...
please quote where I did....
or else, pick YOUR cherries accurately please...lol

(ps thank goodness no one actually got shot here)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Good pickup LTA......one stumble and she shoots somebody. She might have had to live in a different gated community but it wouldn't be nearly as nice.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There were reports some of the protestors carried guns as well. Of course, just have everyone wandering around with loaded guns.

What could possibly go wrong ?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> ....pguy...i dont think i said a word about "how they held their guns"...
> please quote where I did....
> or else, pick YOUR cherries accurately please...lol
> 
> (ps thank goodness no one actually got shot here)


I read yours and LTA's post and mixed them up...but my main point remains valid. You're more concerned about them instead of the armed thugs who threatened to kill them and their dog.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

1) Disarm honest citizens
2) Empower looters and rioters
3) Defund and disband police
What could go wrong?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> God knows I havent seen or read all the coverage on this latest story out of bizzarroland (aka The USA)....but have we become so blase that no one else seems to find it disturbing that a middle-aged lawyer in St. Louis would have a high-powered assault rifle lying around the house....?
> "Honey, looks like we protestors at 1 o'clock! You grab the pistol, I got the AK-47. Let's roll!"
> MAGA.....? some chance!
> 
> View attachment 20286


 ... how classy and they're gun-toting "lawyer(s)"? Wow! Did their dog get killed? They look more like Bonnie & Clyde to me.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> 1) Disarm honest citizens
> 2) Empower looters and rioters
> 3) Defund and disband police
> What could go wrong?


 ...nothing. The Americans' "right-to-bear-arms" can all go kill themselves. 

Junior just need to keep our "Canadian" borders closed until the pandemic blows over. Happy July 1st!


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> I read yours and LTA's post and mixed them up...but my main point remains valid. You're more concerned about them instead of the armed thugs who threatened to kill them and their dog.


well...I'll give you credit for admitting you made a boo-boo🤪
but, as far me as being concerned..I really dont give a rat's you-know-what about any of 'em...
just making an observation...


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

It looks a lot like a staged photo; not one taken when they were "in the moment". If the former, then how do we know the weapons were loaded? If they were not, must we care about the niceties of trigger finger position? If they were in the moment, and under imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death, then gun loaded, safety off, and finger on the trigger and not outside the trigger guard, would be entirely appropriate.

The only thing I see "wrong" with the scene is the so-called "assault rifle". That seems to have emerged of late as a pejorative term designed to stir up negative emotions about guns and gun owners. I think the gun owners would do better to yield on that one and give up ownership of such weapons. It's better to bend than to break.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

The crowd threatened to kill them & their dog...many of the instigators carried guns......at that point I'd probably get real aggressive to those on my lawn. Police do nothing in most states to criminals breaking in to loot & burn.

I care little about a pink shirted lawyer but that home needs to be saved from American Taliban.

btw there is a long video taken by one of the criminals showing this encounter...quite different than reports from the media.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> It looks a lot like a staged photo; not one taken when they were "in the moment". If the former, then how do we know the weapons were loaded? If they were not, must we care about the niceties of trigger finger position? If they were in the moment, and under imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death, then gun loaded, safety off, and finger on the trigger and not outside the trigger guard, would be entirely appropriate.
> 
> The only thing I see "wrong" with the scene is the so-called "assault rifle". That seems to have emerged of late as a pejorative term designed to stir up negative emotions about guns and gun owners. I think the gun owners would do better to yield on that one and give up ownership of such weapons. It's better to bend than to break.


It's a snapshot from the cell phone video.
It's a semi auto rifle. 
But when you have mob of hundreds of protestors, some armed, breaking into private property and threatening to kill you. You're more than justified to use force to defend yourself.

I understand the "tear it all down" people. But the average protestor isn't that.

They say "defund the police' and "community teams" for security, are they thinking this through?

Do they really want more situations like George Zimmerman and Ahmaud Arbery?


As far as the political leaders wanting to talk to "community leaders" that's BS.
The elected government IS the community leadership that we agreed to.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

FWIW.....I'll toss this in....


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Thank you MrM


MrMatt said:


> It's a snapshot from the cell phone video.
> It's a semi auto rifle.


I was unschooled as to the provenance of the photo. Almost looks like some kind of re-creation. So, apparently it was taken when this pair felt under siege by some who were armed. In that case, I have no issue with their conduct, assuming they were loaded for bear and ready to fire. 

Yes, I realize the rife is a semi-auto. Would not expect a full-auto (a.k.a. machine gun). But I believe it's of a class that if often referred to as an "assault rifle", not that I am endowed with much knowledge of assault rifles. 

I own a variety of sporting arms and have done a fair amount of hunting, target shooting, trap and skeet, various handguns, etc. I have complied with Canada's gun laws, although they are already more restrictive than need be, in my view.

I have never seen the need for, or wanted, a gun such as that shown in the photo. I think many think they look sinister, scary. I can't really see going afield and potting a deer or moose with one. I think gun owners and fanciers would do well to give those up. They seem to inflame the passions of the anti-gun bigots. Better to pick one's battles I say. Giving them up is a concession I would grant to the anti-gun crowd with alacrity. But for reasons with which I have never been provided, that class of armament seems to be some kind of a symbol of strength to quite a few gun owners. Some kind of thin edge of the wedge argument, I suppose. First you confiscate my assault rifle, then my double-barrel shotgun, then my bolt-action rifle, etc. Maybe that's the thinking. Strikes me as a bit paranoid, but that's just me.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The couple is mixing up their stories and none of them add up to what the video shows.

The protestors weren't on their property. They were on a private road that led through the complex of homes. It is a "gated" community.

This is how the scene was described by a news reporter on the scene.

_Twenty seconds after several protesters made their way through the gate, *the video shows Mark McCloskey exiting his house with a long rifle, yelling at protesters to leave the private street.*_

Their statement to the police.

Once through the gate, the McCloskeys) advised the group that they were "on a private street and trespassing and told them to leave_," according to police. The couple told police the group began yelling obscenities and threatened to harm them._

And now their lawyer is saying a completely different story that the couple went out when they heard the noise, were threatened and then went back to retrieve their weapons to protect themselves. The couple already said they were dining outside.

They also said the gate was broken down by protestors, which it wasn't. The gate is shown fully intact while the couple is on their porch with guns.

The couple are now being called Ken and Karen on social media and are being investigated.

The woman is in more serious trouble by pointing her loaded firearm at someone, and with her finger on the trigger.

In Canada, she would be charged with serious criminal offenses. You don't whip out weapons and point them at people for trespassing.

In the US, maybe Trump will give her a White House visit and a medal.









‘Ken and Karen’: Couple aims guns at protesters passing mansion in St. Louis - National | Globalnews.ca


The protesters were passing through a gated community on their way to the St. Louis mayor's residence.




globalnews.ca


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

It was a private road, not a public road. There several hundred people who were trespassing, were armed, and who threatened to kill the couple....they weren't just "passing the mansion."

Had it been a black couple protecting themselves against a white mob that had threatened them they would have been praised instead of mocked.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> The protestors weren't on their property. They were on a private road that led through the complex of homes. It is a "gated" community.



Lets hope you never have an angry mob coming up your street toward your house. In this case it was a private gated street. I'm sure you would have invited them all in for tea.

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> God knows I havent seen or read all the coverage on this latest story out of bizzarroland (aka The USA)....but have we become so blase that no one else seems to find it disturbing that a middle-aged lawyer in St. Louis would have a high-powered assault rifle lying around the house....?


It all seems cartoonish, but it's for real. Here are some of the things I encountered while living there for a few years:

- More than one coworker at my office occasionally brought a handgun to work. They were all nice people, but the guns still made me very uncomfortable.

- I once went to the wrong address for a social gathering, and the homeowner pulled out a rifle and pointed it at my car. I thought he was going to kill me and I almost floored the gas pedal to run him over and kill him in self defence. Others who knew this neighbour said he was a 'known gun nut' and had an arsenal of automatic weapons and machine guns too.

- I once told an American friend that some birds in my area were getting annoying due to the noise. He told me, completely seriously, that he could lend me one of his guns and it might be fun for me to start shooting them one by one to 'send a message'.

- Minor shootouts in the US are so common that you don't even hear them in the news. Where I was living, there were frequently incidents (fights at a bar, or at someone's house) ending up with shootings. They didn't even make the news - it happens so often.

- You also have to keep in mind that if a burglar ever comes to your home, they are armed with a gun. If someone tries mugging you on the street, they have a gun. I found this massively stressful.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Read the couple's own statements to the police.

They said they heard the ruckus and went out and told the protestors they were on a private street and had to leave. 

They had brought the guns with them, so there were no preceding threats against them.

Their lawyer is now trying to change the story to they talked to the protesters, were threatened, ran back to get their guns and then went back out.

Given all the evidence, this couple are in serious trouble. They should have stayed inside and minded their own business.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Nothing to see here - just an angry mob - don't worry about it - disregard they have smashed and burnt many businesses and taken over a 6 block area of a major city - just stay inside your homes and there won't be any trouble.

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Call the police. In that neighborhood, the whole police force would respond in seconds.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> Nothing to see here - just an angry mob - don't worry about it - disregard they have smashed and burnt many businesses and taken over a 6 block area of a major city - just stay inside your homes and there won't be any trouble.
> 
> ltr


Or.........they could have stayed on their own porch if defending their property was their concern.

I am not buying their story. They got angry at the protestors and wanted to out to yell at them, so they left their porch to do it.

That is Ken and Kathies do.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> That is Ken and Kathies do.


Yeah, for sure whatever that means.

The mobs are such wonderful people. I fully support their illegal activities as I've seen it on the news.

Disregard those that have spent their lives working hard and paying off a home and trying to be sure it's safe from idiots that roam the streets.

ltr


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> Thank you MrM
> 
> I was unschooled as to the provenance of the photo. Almost looks like some kind of re-creation. So, apparently it was taken when this pair felt under siege by some who were armed. In that case, I have no issue with their conduct, assuming they were loaded for bear and ready to fire.
> 
> ...


The ergonomics of modern "assault rifles" are better. 
Plus they gun grabbers won't be happy.

They just prohibited this gun, which is a common "coyote gun", since we can't use AR-15 types.





Ruger Mini-14 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Heck, under the new "assault weapons" gun grab, they're also prohibiting single shot shotguns.

I think Canadian gun laws are overly restrictive, and underenforced.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> It all seems cartoonish, but it's for real. Here are some of the things I encountered while living there for a few years:
> 
> 
> - You also have to keep in mind that if a burglar ever comes to your home, they are armed with a gun. If someone tries mugging you on the street, they have a gun. I found this massively stressful.


Yes, you have to keep in mind that if a burgler comes into your house, or mugs you on the street, they have a gun.

It's really no different in Canada, lots of criminals have illegal guns, and the ones doing home invasions are often armed with guns or other weapons. That's actually the point.

The criminals have guns, the government officials have armed security (if needed), the law abiding citizens don't.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Yes, you have to keep in mind that if a burgler comes into your house, or mugs you on the street, they have a gun.
> 
> It's really no different in Canada, lots of criminals have illegal guns, and the ones doing home invasions are often armed with guns or other weapons. That's actually the point.
> 
> The criminals have guns, the government officials have armed security (if needed), the law abiding citizens don't.


I understand your line of thinking, but as I understand it, Americans (with guns) don't have a lot of success pulling out their own guns to defend themselves during situations like this.

Right wing media always plays up the occasional cases where the gun helped the law abiding citizen, but this is extremely skewed reporting. They aren't reporting the constant accidental shootings, injuries to children, violent emotional attacks, domestic violence involving a gun, intimidation of women, etc.

Yes, it's true that criminals are walking around with guns. But I don't think an average citizen having a gun on them increases the likelihood of a good outcome.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Right wing media always plays up the occasional cases where the gun helped the law abiding citizen, but this is extremely skewed reporting.


The left media reporting is far more skewed. In fact, not only do they ignore when guns save lives, they often falsely claim that a shooter is right wing when it turns out they're left wing.

Let's look at the "reporting" on the St. Louis couple for example...the left media said a white couple pulled guns on peaceful protestors that were just walking past the house. No mention that the protestors were armed or that they threatened to kill them...nope, just a misleading headline designed to fire the flames.

And people like you fall for it and then create topics based on fake news, never once apologizing for being wrong.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I understand your line of thinking, but as I understand it, Americans (with guns) don't have a lot of success pulling out their own guns to defend themselves during situations like this.
> 
> Right wing media always plays up the occasional cases where the gun helped the law abiding citizen, but this is extremely skewed reporting. They aren't reporting the constant accidental shootings, injuries to children, violent emotional attacks, domestic violence involving a gun, intimidation of women, etc.
> 
> Yes, it's true that criminals are walking around with guns. But I don't think an average citizen having a gun on them increases the likelihood of a good outcome.


Most mass shootings take place in gun free zones for a reason.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If the couple in St. Louis hadn't charged out of their house waving guns around to confront the protestors, they would have been just passed quietly by.

But oh no couldn't do that. Bonnie and Clyde had to dash out the door screaming like crazy people and pointing guns at people.

They should have their faces printed on t-shirts advocating for gun control.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Is there any indication that this couple did anything other than stand there in front of their home, pacing, holding their guns in positions pointed off to the side, and speaking loudly to the rioters that they should move along? How is this different than the behaviour of any armed guard situation? They didn't shoot anyone, didn't take aim, they didn't even fire warning shots into the air. They just exhibited regular property defense posture while also holding guns. It did not escalate.

Why is this news?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> If the couple in St. Louis hadn't charged out of their house waving guns around to confront the protestors, they would have been just passed quietly by.
> 
> But oh no couldn't do that. Bonnie and Clyde had to dash out the door screaming like crazy people and pointing guns at people.
> 
> They should have their faces printed on t-shirts advocating for gun control.


 ... I can't imagine what happens if their clients make any protest on their bills with these "lawyers". Very neighbourly too. 

Also, surprised that they didn't pull out the tank from that structure (now seeing it) that they're defending ... it looks more like a prison than a "mansion".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

This couple exhibited "road rage" about protestors on a private road. They pointed guns at the protestors with their fingers on the triggers.

In Canada, the couple would be facing very serious criminal charges. In the US..........who knows, since they are white and affluent.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> *This couple exhibited "road rage" about protestors on a private road. They pointed guns at the protestors with their fingers on the triggers.*
> 
> In Canada, the couple would be facing very serious criminal charges. In the US..........who knows, since they are white and affluent.


 ... they should have taken selfies.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

peterk said:


> Is there any indication that this couple did anything other than stand there in front of their home, pacing, holding their guns in positions pointed off to the side, and speaking loudly to the rioters that they should move along? How is this different than the behaviour of any armed guard situation? They didn't shoot anyone, didn't take aim, they didn't even fire warning shots into the air. They just exhibited regular property defense posture while also holding guns. It did not escalate.
> 
> Why is this news?


It's news because it frames both narratives so well.

From the left, here are some racists pulling guns on a peaceful protest walking down the street.

From the right, here are 2 people scared of a large mob that broken onto and trespassing on private property and threatening the homeowners.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The protestors weren't on the couple's property. They were on the private property owned by all the owners of the enclave.

Those other owners don't seem to be supporting the couple's actions on their behalf.

_A letter released Wednesday by more than three dozen neighbors of the couple condemned “the behavior of anyone who uses threats of violence, especially through the brandishing of firearms, to disrupt peaceful protest, whether it be in this neighborhood or anywhere in the United States.” _


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

It wasn't a peaceful protest.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> It wasn't a peaceful protest.


Of course not, but that's how the media is reporting it.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

sags said:


> If the couple in St. Louis hadn't charged out of their house waving guns around to confront the protestors, they would have been just passed quietly by.
> 
> But oh no couldn't do that. Bonnie and Clyde had to dash out the door screaming like crazy people and pointing guns at people.
> 
> They should have their faces printed on t-shirts advocating for gun control.


But they weren't passing quietly by. They had already kicked in the (locked) front gate and invaded their property. They weren't very quiet about it either.

They warned off the home invaders without firing a shot. I admire their self control and cool handling of a threatening situation.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> But they weren't passing quietly by. They had already kicked in the (locked) front gate and invaded their property. They weren't very quiet about it either.
> 
> They warned off the home invaders without firing a shot. I admire their self control and cool handling of a threatening situation.


I haven't seen any evidence that protesters stepped foot on their property and they did not damage their property. They were on their way to protest the mayor's house. Seems to me that these folks need to take some gun safety courses as they seem to have no idea how to safely handle firearms. You never point a gun at someone you don't intend to kill.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Ya ...guy only busted his *** restoring the house for 32 years...why would he want to protect it from a bunch of armed trespassers. I think I would have done the same thing if a forest of man buns threatened my boat.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

No evidence that the house was being threatened.

Are you saying you would be waving a gun like an idiot with your finger on the trigger? Or wrapping your hand around the barrel of a rifle?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> I haven't seen any evidence that protesters stepped foot on their property and they did not damage their property. They were on their way to protest the mayor's house. Seems to me that these folks need to take some gun safety courses as they seem to have no idea how to safely handle firearms. You never point a gun at someone you don't intend to kill.


They were on the private street, which is shared ownership by the homeowners.
The video is VERY clear that the mob was trespassing on private property..


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

The mob were yelling they were going to kill him , his dog & his wife. I believe you're a millennial...pretty sure it wouldn't take that much to make you feel threatened.
In a normal world these morons would have been in a paddy wagon off to jail for the night...in Atlanta they celebrate destruction and encourage violence. The 8 year old black girl tragically murdered by black BLM protesters yesterday show what this movement is about. Don't read much about that in the news.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds like the lawyers should be hauled off to jail as well. Brandishing a gun like that is apparently illegal, in addition to being very dangerous.

The mob wasn't trespassing (I roll my eyes at that a bit, they were walking on a notionally private sidewalk). They were guests of the mayor. 

The whole gated community concept is pretty toxic. You want to live in South Africa or a country with a functioning civil discourse.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I love how the leftists can pull down statues, smash windows, loot stores, commit robbery intimidation rape and even murder an 8 year old child and that is ok. But if an honest citizen defends his home and family that is terrible. I guess it's true, that if it wasn't for double standards the left would have no standards at all.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Only in a right wing fever dream do you think anyone believes that that is okay. You can't conflate legitimate protest with looting/rioting.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Only in a right wing fever dream do you think anyone believes that that is okay. You can't conflate legitimate protest with looting/rioting.


Trespassing and threatening to kill isn't a legitimate protest, but perhaps you lack the judgement to see the difference. Maybe you could sue your parents as it seems obvious that they failed somewhere in your upbringing. Did they just plop you in front of CNN all day?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm not 80. Who watches cable news, except the infirm who get plunked in front of it in the long term care facility? You must be on the older side if you think younger demos watch cable news. The median age of Fox news viewers is 68. Hilarious.

I didn't see any evidence that anyone threatened the lawyers. They claim someone did, perhaps because they are familiar with the law in their state and know that you have to at least claim to have felt threatened to be waving a gun around like a madman.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

andrewf said:


> Only in a right wing fever dream do you think anyone believes that that is okay. You can't conflate legitimate protest with looting/rioting.


Then how did "protesters" get away with hijacking six blocks of downtown Seattle for 2 weeks and only got rousted when they marched on the mayor's mansion? Until they threatened her they were "peaceful protesters" engaged in a "summer of love" even though stores were wrecked and looted, people intimidated and extorted for money, they put up barricades and there were numerous rapes and assaults, and six murders?

Interesting commentary on the St. Louis incident that should put to rest the question of how many protesters there were, whether they were quiet or noisy and whether they broke down gates to trespass on private property.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Sounds like the lawyers should be hauled off to jail as well. Brandishing a gun like that is apparently illegal, in addition to being very dangerous.
> 
> The mob wasn't trespassing (I roll my eyes at that a bit, they were walking on a notionally private sidewalk). They were guests of the mayor.
> 
> The whole gated community concept is pretty toxic. You want to live in South Africa or a country with a functioning civil discourse.


You seem to be in an alternate reality.

They brandished a firearm when their lives were threatened.
Under what law in that state is that illegal?

They were on private property, they were told to leave. That is trespassing.
I have not heard the claim where the mayor invited the protestors to the property.

My house is a "gated community". I'm sure you have doors which you lock, you might even have a fence.
Nothing wrong with that.
The whole idea of being able to restrict who has access to your property seems completely fine with me.
If anything, an armed violent mob is EVEN MORE reason to have a gated community.

The last comment is most interesting, of COURSE I want to live in a country with a functioning civil discourse!
If you're not interested in civil discourse, why are you even here?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Gated communities are about separating from society (othering). 

You think you can point a gun at anyone who comes on the property of a condo after you tell them to leave?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Communists and leftists just can't understand the concept of private property. Even the ones who live in Canada and the US have a hard time with it.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The problem with gated communities is that they privatize what ought to be public spaces (the street).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

PG seems to have a deep fixation with painting everything with enormous brushes. One person's comment becomes tar and feathers for half the population. Shall I find a white supremacist and attribute all his ideas to the right wing as a whole. It is just so much blathering noise. It isn't original and it isn't relevant to the topic at hand.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> The problem with gated communities is that they privatize what ought to be public spaces (the street).


Why should a road or driveway on my private property be a public space?
It's on my property, to take me from the public street, close to my house.
What I do on my property, ie pave some of it to drive on, is none of your business.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Gated communities are about separating from society (othering).
> 
> You think you can point a gun at anyone who comes on the property of a condo after you tell them to leave?


If they threaten my life, yes.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Only in a right wing fever dream do you think anyone believes that that is okay. You can't conflate legitimate protest with looting/rioting.


Apparently many think you can.
Look at the CHAZ/CHOP, people are still calling that a protest.

Honestly the logic of destroying your own community as a "protest" seems ridiculous.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> If they threaten my life, yes.


Maybe you don't realize that if you point a gun at someone you are threatening their life, and in a much more credible way than saying something from 100 ft away on a sidewalk. Maybe they should have shot the lawyer in self defense.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> PG seems to have a deep fixation with painting everything with enormous brushes. One person's comment becomes tar and feathers for half the population. Shall I find a white supremacist and attribute all his ideas to the right wing as a whole. It is just so much blathering noise. It isn't original and it isn't relevant to the topic at hand.


You've just described how the left thinks. All cops are bad, all white people are racist, etc.

Take 5 minutes to read up on "private property" and what it means instead of posting comments that make you look uneducated. Or maybe you're just trolling...we all know that if a white person in a MAGA hat stepped on your property and threatened you the first thing you'd do after peeing your pants would be to call the cops.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Maybe you don't realize that if you point a gun at someone you are threatening their life, and in a much more credible way than saying something from 100 ft away on a sidewalk. Maybe they should have shot the lawyer in self defense.


Ahh, we get to the heart of the issue.
You have the opinion that the couple did not honestly feel their lives were under threat.

If that were the case, I'd agree, for a simple trespass on private property pulling a gun might be an overreaction, but you have to look at it in context.

1. The couple claim the crowd made threats to kill them. 
2. The couple claim the crowd was armed.
3. Several police officers were shot by "protestors" earlier in the same month.

It is very hard to argue, that with violent mobs roaming the streets, shooting police, that a reasonable person wouldn't take their threats seriously.

It's a good thing that they didn't shoot into the crowd. That would have been a mess, and if there was any return fire, they'd have a pretty strong case for self defence.
When you trespass in a stand your ground state, you're putting your life at risk.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Condos and gated communities aren't the private property of property owners. 

They are "common" property and no one individual owner exerts rights over the property.

The "private property" defense is likely to fall short and I predict the couple will plead out the case.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Andrew is just trolling this thread eliciting the "Woke" dogma thats trendy the last month but I suspect he is smarter than that and having a bit of fun. No harm.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> You've just described how the left thinks. All cops are bad, all white people are racist, etc.


The irony! Go on, tell me how vast groups of people are all the same.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Ahh, we get to the heart of the issue.
> You have the opinion that the couple did not honestly feel their lives were under threat.


As I read it, the couple saw a crowd of 'undesirables' walking down the street near their home. They decided that they would try to threaten the crowd for trespassing rather than letting the professionals deal with it, putting on their comical display of people who have no idea how to use guns. This probably backfired and antagonized the crowd, who were not there for the couple. Maybe some words were exchanged. It is only alleged that the crowd had weapons (lawyers building their defense). No evidence from the video or other witness statements that the crowd had weapons.

I don't think we want a society when every time someone gets hysterical they can get away with waving a gun at someone with their finger on the trigger. That's how people get shot in Costco parking lots over disputed parking spots. Thankfully, in Canada, that kind of behaviour is illegal. I guess we'll see if it is in St Louis as well.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> As I read it, the couple saw a crowd of 'undesirables' walking down the street near their home. They decided that they would try to threaten the crowd for trespassing rather than letting the professionals deal with it, putting on their comical display of people who have no idea how to use guns. This probably backfired and antagonized the crowd, who were not there for the couple. Maybe some words were exchanged. It is only alleged that the crowd had weapons (lawyers building their defense). No evidence from the video or other witness statements that the crowd had weapons.
> 
> I don't think we want a society when every time someone gets hysterical they can get away with waving a gun at someone with their finger on the trigger. That's how people get shot in Costco parking lots over disputed parking spots. Thankfully, in Canada, that kind of behaviour is illegal. I guess we'll see if it is in St Louis as well.


I don't want a society where every time someone gets hysterical they can get away with waving a gun at someone.
However I also don't want a society where people simply disregard the law and act however they want.

The mob was trespassing illegally.

The police were called.
The police did not remove the trespassers.

Quite honestly, the police are simply unable to deal with these large mobs, it's starting to get very scary in the US.

What a lot of people miss is that while there are legitimate points, a small number of agitators simply want to bring down the whole system. That's what's really scary.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Time to keep Bonnie & Clyde busy ... can see a lawsuit heading for the St. Louis cops department next:

St. Louis Cops Seize Gun That Couple Pointed At Black Lives Matter Protesters



> ... “We complied with the search warrant. They took my AR,” Mark McCloskey told the conservative Todd Starnes radio show. “I’m absolutely surprised by this.”
> 
> The couple told police Friday that the pistol Patricia McCloskey brandished was with their lawyer, sources told NBC affiliate KSDK-TV.
> 
> The couple’s attorney, Joel Schwartz, confirmed to the TV station that *a warrant was issued for a search of their home Friday night.* Schwartz said he has no idea where the handgun is. He hopes to meet with a prosecutor next week. ...


With St. Louis' taxpayers loving the spectacle put up by this Bonnie & Clyde pair.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

A mob of 500 people trespasses onto your property, you call the police, they don't come.
Good thing this guy can afford private security.

Remember, this is the city where anti-police protestors were shooting cops.

The US has got some serious problems.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> Time to keep Bonnie & Clyde busy ... can see a lawsuit heading for the St. Louis cops department next:
> 
> With St. Louis' taxpayers loving the spectacle put up by this Bonnie & Clyde pair.


Bonnie and Clyde killed innocent people. BLM kills innocent people. All this couple did was protect their property from a mob and didn't kill anyone. You're not bright enough to know the difference.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I agree you're the brightest Dump lover hiding in Canada.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> I agree you're the brightest Dump lover hiding in Canada.


If any part of my post was inaccurate please enlighten us. Surely you're brighter than me and should have no problem doing so...


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> If any part of my post was inaccurate please enlighten us. Surely you're brighter than me and should have no problem doing so...


 ... not sure why you would require me to "enlighten" "us" when I specifically stated "you" only and the fact that you stated I wasn't bright enough to notice the difference. Then obviously, you're the brightest here and that I can't deny the fact that you do love the Dump from his MAGA USA based on every post of yours beaming in admirations for him.

So now you're admitting you're not the brightest after all - I'll give you a hint on the "accuracy" of your post. Re-read it and tell me "how" does/did BLM kill innocent people? Not that I need to hear your BS spin honestly ... just need to peel the skin abit off your post.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

An 19-year old man was killed in the BLM zone in Seattle a while ago. It made the news...and the president even called the man's father to express condolences.

I don't praise Trump, I just correct misinformation that people post. Surely you're bright enough to know the difference?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Prairie Guy said:


> I don't praise Trump, I just correct misinformation that people post.


Yikes, must be a full time job.

ltr


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> An 19-year old man was killed in the BLM zone in Seattle a while ago. It made the news...and the president even called the man's father to express condolences.
> 
> I don't praise Trump, I just correct misinformation that people post. Surely you're bright enough to know the difference?


Several people were shot, several died, 1 was apparently murdered by "security".
there were untold rapes, asssaults and other violent crimes.

CHOP really was an example of what a police free state looks like.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Chop wasn't really BLM, it was more anarchists and antifa fools. Portland is a **** show when it comes to left wing loonies, and has been for years.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Chop wasn't really BLM, it was more anarchists and antifa fools. Portland is a **** show when it comes to left wing loonies, and has been for years.


Of course, BLM is perfect, but when the groups supporting them go "too far", they're "not really BLM".

Some of what BLM supports is good, but the movement has clearly gone way past reasonable and been hijacked by the far left.

Plus if BL(really)M'd, they'd do something about the broken culture leading to the massive murder rate within that culture.

It's not a race issue, it's a culture problem, and the victim mentality doesn't help.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

MrMatt said:


> Some of what BLM supports is good, but the movement has clearly gone way past reasonable and been hijacked by the far left.



_Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report._

Could you get more further left?

ltr


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

If the St Louis couple apologizes like Trudeau did will sags forgive them? OR does that privilege only apply to Liberal politicians?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Of course, BLM is perfect, but when the groups supporting them go "too far", they're "not really BLM".
> 
> Some of what BLM supports is good, but the movement has clearly gone way past reasonable and been hijacked by the far left.
> 
> ...


I dont support BLM the organization. It has a bit of an Orwellian ring to it. BLM ironically seems to care more about trans issues than race. You can believe any organization does what it says in the tin, just like many right wing outfits. 

Just trying to clarify the situation with chop. Blaming everything on BLM let's anarchists and antifa crazies off the hook.


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