# Wealthy Barber Returns



## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Is this book worth a read, came across it online today at work.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

http://www.amazon.ca/product-reviews/0968394744/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

I read it about a year ago its OK plenty of good information.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Great book.
http://www.myownadvisor.ca/2012/02/my-favourite-takeaways-the-wealthy-barber-returns-part-1-of-2/


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Absolutely- his first book 20 odd years ago is what got me interested in personal finance, and the new version is better. He addresses some issues from the first version that have turned out to be inaccurate.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

When I read his first book, years ago, I thought he glossed over a lot of important details like how to buy real estate, but overall I liked his book. 

The new one however basically boils down to live within your means. 

He's more about cutting costs than giving good advice about ways of increasing your income. I was disappointed and think it's just a money grab based on his reputation.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

If it is the one I am thinking of I read it n probably a day over the summer.

It is a book sparse on words but the words in it have much weight.

If people could follow hsi advise en masse the whole economy would likely tip into recession. I sometimes wonder on how we can sustain our current paths.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Ponderling said:


> If people could follow hsi advise en masse the whole economy would likely tip into recession. I sometimes wonder on how we can sustain our current paths.


1+ If everyone was frugal we'd be in trouble...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Ponderling said:


> If people could follow his advise en masse the whole economy would likely tip into recession.


I think his key message is about adjusting spending habits. I don't spend just for the sake of spending as many folks seem to do for x,y,z reasons, ie: upgrade too early, etc., etc. However, I'm pretty sure that I help the economy in many, many ways. :encouragement: 

“One of the big pushes I have in the book is instead of dwelling on how bad we are as savers, it might be more productive to think of how fantastic we are as spenders. Then I start breaking it down to see why we are so good. Why do we want to spend so much? I look at it from every angle – our DNA, our prehistoric roots, the psychological and philosophical aspects, even from the angle of how our brains light up when we spend certain amounts of money. And I always try to wrap it in humour and short stories. I think that’s why the book is going over well.

You don’t have to change your spending habits by very much to increase your savings rate dramatically. *Cutting back your spending by five, six, or seven per cent can raise your savings rate by 100 or 200 per cent.”*


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I thought _Returns_ was a better read than the original. Dave and I chatted a lot when he was writing the book, so perhaps, I'm biased here. Here's an excerpt from the book:

http://www.thestar.com/business/per...after_21_yearsthe_wealthy_barber_returns.html


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Yes, that's called the paradox of thrift. If everyone tried to save at the same time, everyone's income would fall and they'd be no farther ahead.

But if people were to use less consumer debt, we could eventually get to another steady state where there is lower consumer debt and as much consumption as today. People would just save up for their consumption instead of financing it. On the other hand, consumption patterns might change if people saved first. People might be less likely to buy crap that doesn't add much value to their lives.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Just a Guy said:


> When I read his first book, years ago, I thought he glossed over a lot of important details like how to buy real estate, but overall I liked his book.
> 
> The new one however basically boils down to live within your means.
> 
> He's more about cutting costs than giving good advice about ways of increasing your income. I was disappointed and think it's just a money grab based on his reputation.


I liked both books (and have left the second one out where my husband can read it). It is pretty basic, but then some of us need to be reminded of the basics.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If you took all the personal debt and subtracted the interest and extra charges that have been piled on......the picture probably would look a lot brighter.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

For every debt, there is a borrower and a lender. All interest payments are someone else's income.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

How true andrewf. Like the stocks you buy, if you're buying, someone else is selling.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If we're talking fluff books, then I prefer Kiyosaki's idea that if you want something, figure out a way to increase your income enough to pay for it rather than cut spending. However I think both authors raise some good points, but are very basic with no real meat.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Actually, I felt that one of the most important concepts in the book is the futility of trying to beat the market, or paying advisors to try to do so. Extremely valuable advice for most people. And of course, that is his target market- the average person with little or no financial planning knowledge. So on that front, it's worth the price of admission and a good starting point for those intimidated by the world of money. So fluff?... well, depends on how one looks at it. Fluff to someone who trades options, solid and straightforward wisdom for the majority of people.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, then you should read the investing book by that professional wrestler J.B.L. It's no worse, in fact, for a beginner it may be better, since it tells you to...wait for it...live within your means and buy a well diversified portfolio of stocks, bonds and mutual funds, and don't worry about trying to beat the market. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0743466330

Now, I'm not trashing either book really, I just want to point out that there is nothing special about either of them. None of them really reveal how to make money if you don't have a fairly good paycheque to begin with. Anyone could probably write a book like this.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

These books are all the same.Your better off buying the globe and mail everyday for that matter and following the finance section or for that matter any major newspaper and or blogs ects,something tangible where you can follow investing/personal finance ect.(on a daily/weekly/mthly basis)
There is nothing new in any personal finance book imo-it is all the same.
Guess how much a year's worth of lattes add up to be-how exciting lol


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Well, then you should read the investing book by that professional wrestler J.B.L. It's no worse, in fact, for a beginner it may be better, since it tells you to...wait for it...live within your means and buy a well diversified portfolio of stocks, bonds and mutual funds, and don't worry about trying to beat the market.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0743466330
> 
> Now, I'm not trashing either book really, I just want to point out that there is nothing special about either of them. None of them really reveal how to make money if you don't have a fairly good paycheque to begin with. Anyone could probably write a book like this.


My post says nothing about my personal take on investing - just stating that there is indeed an important message in Chilton's advice for the average person.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Reading the newspaper finance section is a terrible idea. It's full of reasonable-sounding nonsense designed to confuse readers and make them change their investing strategy every other week.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Really!How do you andrew follow what is happening?(general economy)If i read 15 articles regarding say ''investing in bonds/fixed income in this environment-2013" i have a vast load of information to compare/weigh and also watch if the market is in agreement.
How is it that you follow?
AS far as structuring a portfolio or building a simple portfolio model(taxes/what vechile/allocation/sectors/holdings/cad/us % ect ect),i'll listen up when reading the daily newspaper in the investing/portfolio sections-for a general concensus)
A book is past tense-newspaper is current events unfolding in real time.


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Reading the newspaper finance section is a terrible idea. It's full of reasonable-sounding nonsense designed to confuse readers and make them change their investing strategy every other week.


careful now! the more consumption, the more our dividends keep paying and stock keeps increasing. I recommend spending your money now and becoming an early adopter for everyone!

as for Barber, we followed pay yourself first. Really what he meant was retire first among your peers...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

donald said:


> Really!How do you andrew follow what is happening?(general economy)If i read 15 articles regarding say ''investing in bonds/fixed income in this environment-2013" i have a vast load of information to compare/weigh and also watch if the market is in agreement.
> How is it that you follow?
> AS far as structuring a portfolio or building a simple portfolio model(taxes/what vechile/allocation/sectors/holdings/cad/us % ect ect),i'll listen up when reading the daily newspaper in the investing/portfolio sections-for a general concensus)
> A book is past tense-newspaper is current events unfolding in real time.


Expert predictions are pretty useless. They are often wrong.

As far as general personal finance, the only way the paper can continue publishing stories is if they are different. They end up contradicting themselves. Sensible general information doesn't change every few weeks.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

donald said:


> AS far as structuring a portfolio or building a simple portfolio model(taxes/what vechile/allocation/sectors/holdings/cad/us % ect ect),i'll listen up when reading the daily newspaper in the investing/portfolio sections-for a general concensus)


But that's exactly what gets most investors into trouble, at least long-term ones. As usual here, we're using the word "investments" without indicating the time horizon, which is crucial. If you're living off your investments now or investing for a near-term goal, it makes sense to pay attention to what the market's doing today. If you're investing for a far-off goal (e.g., if you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, or 50s and plan to retire around 67), paying attention to current market behaviour is usually counterproductive and a waste of time anyway.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I have read both the "Wealthy Barber" and the recent "Returns".
They are both good books and yes it is true that the sequel draws on Chilton's popularity as a public speaker and now a TV show host (Dragon's Den & LOLX, mainly).
The second book is a much lighter read, filled with self-deprecating humor.

I'd say the target market for the second book is not the typical CMF member here.
Which is why some of us are not finding it very useful.
The target market is those with a very low level of financial awareness, let alone investment skills.
He has advice related to home buying, mortgages, insurance, and other basic day-to-day financial aspects.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Expert predictions are pretty useless. They are often wrong.


Sure there's lots of chaff ... but then again, I've followed up some of the "here's some overly beatup stocks" and done well with them or read some of the fund managers picks so that in the future, I've been able to pick them up when out of favour. Like everything else - one has to do their due diligence as just jumping on whatever is more likely to setup profits for others.

As long as it's viewed as one of many sources instead of the a be-all, end-all source - it's useful, IMO.




andrewf said:


> As far as general personal finance, the only way the paper can continue publishing stories is if they are different. They end up contradicting themselves. Sensible general information doesn't change every few weeks.


That's the key - general. 

Once the general info is mastered - more detail for things like split shares or other newer possibilities that I've read in the newspaper came in handy. Part of the issue is that most either think they have mastered more than they have or don't get beyond the first bit that's hard to understand.


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I never expected it to be useful for myself. Making something most people find terribly boring (personal finance) interesting or at least palatable is a laudable goal.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I have some stock in a non reg. portfolio,that i invest with.I like keeping informed and at the very least be aware of what is happening ect,maybe besides researching on my rbcDI i don't know where else to find current info(it is up to the individual to form own opinion)
I'm going to say it is almost required to read the business sector if your a diy.That is just how i like to follow the markets.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Read it this past weekend, overall not a bad book good for a newbie just starting out for sure.


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## smihaila (Apr 6, 2009)

The title of this thread is a bit misleading. Initially I thought that the OP is asking whether it's possible to get those investment returns which the book is mentioning about (10%) - or the original version at least. That would capture my interest


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Keep in mind the context of when the book was written. 10% nominal stock returns is not too unreasonable when inflation is 5%+.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

andrewf said:


> I never expected it to be useful for myself. Making something most people find terribly boring (personal finance) interesting or at least palatable is a laudable goal.


precisely.

I went to the talk for the book launch and it was loads of fun, and he's a great speaker. I found nothing useful from the book [my copy is signed BTW ]. but from the conversations I overheard during the coffee break, it will be useful for many. this book is far less exploitative that other popular Canadian finance books.

Personally, I find the Schweser notes more useful to help my investing strategy but I would hazard that most CMFErs would not agree.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

^^ I agree & really admire him for all that he's trying to do, and for his modesty! 

From Maclean's interview:

*Q:* What made you decide, after such a long time, to come back and write another personal finance book?

*A:* It was really about frustration. In 2007 and 2008, and before the credit crisis by the way, I had been looking at so many people’s personal finances—people email them to me every day—and saw the amount of debt they were taking on. The very low savings rates just drove me crazy. I couldn’t believe how many people were headed toward retirement in not good shape at all, including fairly affluent people. So I said, “You know what? I want to come back at this and try one more time.” And I knew how I was going to do it right away. I knew that the first half of the book was going to concentrate on saving and spending from every angle I could think of, while the second half I was going to put in some random thoughts.


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## smihaila (Apr 6, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Keep in mind the context of when the book was written. 10% nominal stock returns is not too unreasonable when inflation is 5%+.


Maybe my memory doesn't serve me well, but the book was alluding to safer / guaranteed forms of investment, or it may have been stock based but focusing on dividends. Anyways, I really appreciate the key point of the book - which is that the main source of capital is you and saving as much as you can out of your employment income is the winning strategy. And I really managed to do that, by saving as much as 50% and with only me the breadwinner, of a family of four. 

Now, only if I could PRESERVE this excess, to conserve its value over time. I'm not looking for getting rich out of nothing/without work, or to speculate. I've got very disappointed in stock market and that saying from W. Buffet about stock market being 'short term voting machine and long-term asset producing machine' is just B.S. What can we say about those pensioners who let's say were in the market for 25-30 years and until 2008 they were able to get un-crystalized / paper profits of let's say 300-400%, just to see in the end, how some merciless, unscrupulous profiteers would "bring" the market at the prices they wanted ('fire sales'), just for them to enter the market and grab all the profits? Where is the 'asset producing' machine in their case?

I've read Richard Ney's book - "The Wall Street Gang" - may seem outdated and out of context, but it was truly an eye opener to me.
Perhaps there is some hope for stocks, but only when investing in local comunities/businesses and you know those private business owners well 
and you actually get to become engaged into their activity. Not this 'public trading' stuff.

So, where are those 'grandma jars' that I could use to store my hard-earned capital, in order to preserve its value and be able to consume it when I will be old?


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

smihaila said:


> Maybe my memory doesn't serve me well, but the book was alluding to safer / guaranteed forms of investment, or it may have been stock based but focusing on dividends.


Chilton is inclined to recommend indexing for the majority of people.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

A long time ago I got some good advice from someone. I was told, "never invest in things you don't understand". 

I'm always amazed at all the people who "buy a well balanced mix of mutual funds/bonds" and then complain about their returns (having never even read the perspectus). 

I've done the stupid thing of picking stocks my entire life, individual ones at that to make it worse
. The way I chose them? I understood the company, I used their products/services and I researched their management/company policy. So far, this has served me quite well, even over the past few years. 

When I deviated from this approach (listened to other people's advice or abdicated my responsibilities by buying a mutual fund/etf, leaving the picking to "experts") I've had disappointing results. 

Now, I don't consider myself an expert investor, but I only get paid if I succeed, whereas my broker/mutual fund manager gets paid reguardless of his success.

Maybe if more people took an interest in the subject beyond the basics preached in such books (buy mutual funds and everything will be alright...), maybe someone other than these authors could retire. 

Did these authors make their money in mutual funds, or by cutting his expenses? 

I don't spend hours a day watching stocks and doing research, I probably only buy 2-5 times a year (oh, I'm also an stupid buy and hold investor which doesn't work anymore). I don't read the news, as it's out of date and thrives on sensationalism, but I do keep an ear out for bad news. 

Things like the financial meltdown (when I bought Canadian banks at half price and got a 10%+ dividend) or maple leaf food contamination. The Tylenol tampering of the 80's, Black Friday, stock crashes...those are buying opportunities. Quality on the outs with the bath water. 

Tell you what, if this strategy works for you, you can send me $20, if it doesn't you can keep it. That's a better deal and a quicker read than any investment book, and it's how I actually make money (along with real estate, but there is a good book out there which says what I would have written).


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## alingva (Aug 17, 2013)

newfoundlander61 said:


> Is this book worth a read, came across it online today at work.


 I found a similar question on another financial forum http://moneyinside.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Free as an ebook at Tangerine's site. Credit to Arby at FWF.
https://www.tangerine.ca/en/landing-page/wealthybarberreturns/clients/index.html


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ And thanks for passing it on here. Got his first edition (autographed) but could always read a refresher/update with the second edition. :encouragement:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> ^^ I agree & really admire him for all that he's trying to do, and for his modesty!


Good to 'see' you're back.:eagerness:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ TO.gal's posting was from 2013 and it's unlikely she's returning to this forum. :distant:


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

It is an old thread, but I liked this post:

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...Barber-Returns?p=201305&viewfull=1#post201305

Especially this part:



> I've done the stupid thing of picking stocks my entire life, individual ones at that to make it worse
> . The way I chose them? I understood the company, I used their products/services and I researched their management/company policy. So far, this has served me quite well, even over the past few years.
> 
> When I deviated from this approach (listened to other people's advice or abdicated my responsibilities by buying a mutual fund/etf, leaving the picking to "experts") I've had disappointing results.
> ...


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Tangerine has a free download of the book today.

https://www.tangerine.ca/en/landing-page/wealthybarberreturns/clients/index.html


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## GalacticPineapple (Feb 28, 2013)

Great book if you'e looking for a bunch of generalities about personal finance. Not a great book if you're looking for something more substantial.


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