# Whelers Mill in Stouffville?



## CuriousReader (Apr 3, 2009)

A friend of mine is looking to buy a house, and came across this new development in Stouffville - any opinions?

http://www.mattamyhomes.com/GTA/Communities/Stouffville/Whelers-Mill/Homes-For-Sale.asp

They will be working in downtown TO area btw


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

It depends when you leave, but the traffic is probably 1.5 hours each way during rush hour.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

I have family in the Stouffville area and I find it very convenient. Quiet living just outside of Markham and a few minutes from the bus route. However, I believe the bus ride to downtown is around 45 min and that was during off peak time.


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

FT: To downtown TO? I mean if I had a car, it would taken 10 minutes to the 404, and 30 minutes minimum with absolutely zero traffic. With rush hour, no way to get down that fast. To a subway, my guess is it'd take at least an hour to get to a major subway line, and then another 30-45 minutes downtown.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

One of my siblings lived in that area for a decade, and I commuted very frequently from their place to downtown TO. They are looking at at least 45 minutes (on a very fast day, with a car, no traffic) and should plan for more like an hour each way as a routine "fast" commute and 1.25 hours as a routine "average" commute. 

Also, FWIW, that is a very car-heavy lifestyle in general. Although there are lots of lovely ravine-type walks you can do, there are few sidewalks and fewer walkable destinations. They will drive everywhere, from the corner store to the supermarket to the gym to the dentist to the library...They probably know this, but on the off chance they haven't considered this, they will need cars to do pretty much anything. When my sister was at home with little kids in this area (and I was a very frequent visitor), I personally found it quite isolating. But to each their own!


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Sure, it's a good idea if you want to spend 3 hours or more of each weekday burning gas @$1/litre and looking at brakelights, trucks and rubbernecking accidents on the side of the road. Higher insurance, numerous near-miss accidents with bad drivers who don't yield right of way, slowpokes in the middle and left lane, more oil changes, more tires, more worn out cars. Traffic slows to a crawl and it sucks the life out of you and your car. You will be TIRED on the weekend. When there is freezing rain or a snowstorm coming through your drive can be up to 4 hours long. Doesn't look to me like you are getting away from anything by living so far from work. If you work in S, live in S. If you work in Toronto, live in Toronto. Commuting sucks.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

C'mon Royal, don't hold back....tell us what you really feel!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> C'mon Royal, don't hold back....tell us what you really feel!


Lol - I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I like to present a realistic and practical portrayal of things, no need to sugarcoat everything.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Another way to think about this, for what it's worth, is the concept of the "car mortgage." 

That is, if the house seems "affordable" but requires two cars in good working condition, add the cost of the two cars into the mortgage (I'd add lump sums for car purchases onto the mortgage [just for modelling purposes] plus add depreciation, repairs and average operating costs to your monthly mortgage.)

This will give a truer picture of the cost of living far away from your work. 

The other thing I think about, and I alluded to it in my earlier post, is that if you are a couple who is planning on having kids (and why would you move to such a big space if weren't planning or already had kids?), your lifestyle will require either that your kid(s) spend a huge amount of time in daycare, or that (if you only have one working spouse) the stay-at-home spouse will spend a lot of time alone with their child(ren) - because the other spouse is spending 15 hours a week commuting. 

Just my thoughts...I have no idea what this person or couple's situation actually is. And for what it's worth, I lived on a farm in rural eastern Ontario for over a decade; I know what it is like to live in a semi-isolated setting.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

we bought a brand new home (i ensured the commute to both our work places was < 30mins) and when we were considering moving, both wife and i kind of wanted to go again with a never lived in home. this was last year. but lately, i have begun to get the feeling that the premium new homes demand is probably not worth the benefits. especially now that we have 2 kids, if we move, i would prefer to get a house close to a good school, good neighbourhood, good facilities that we could walk to instead of taking out a car every time.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I completely agree, mg. I went through this analysis a few years ago using a simple spreadsheet with two columns. One column was for lower housing + commute costs and the other for higher housing and NO commute costs. When you add it all up in this manner plus the soft facts you mention, it's amazing how poor the commuting option really is.

I've managed to break out of that whole southern ONT vortex being discussed here and it was the best thing I ever did.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I broke out of the vortex by living close to my work, albeit that both are in downtown Toronto. 

I know this discussion is taking the thread somewhat off-topic, but I am always slightly concerned that people (in aggregate) don't seem to plan long-term for housing purchases. 

I'm thinking particularly of young couples who want children: they need to either budget in relatively enormous daycare costs, or the loss of one spouse's salary for up to 5 years (I know some people have free child care provided by nearby relatives; that's obviously another option.)

Instead, I would see people who stretched to their max to buy a house based on BOTH salaries and no childcare expenses - then they were faced with really unpleasant decisions when mat leave was over and they had to figure out how to live on much less no matter what choice they made about who was going to care for their kids. 

Personally, we bought a house that we knew we could carry on one income, and I was at home with my kids when they were small. I know I have been very lucky in that I have been able to maintain career momentum while taking a relatively long chunk of time out of the workforce. However, I feel very strongly that this was the right choice for my kids and our family. But I digress. Back to talking about commuting and Stouffville! (always pronounced "Stuffville" in my family)


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

Stouffville is on the GO line, so they can commute by train. I think it's rush hour service only, though. Stouffville is a lovely community; a really nice mix of old and new. It has really exploded in popularity over the past 5 years or so. We have several friends who have migrated to that area.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Sure, it's a good idea if you want to spend 3 hours or more of each weekday burning gas @$1/litre and looking at brakelights, trucks and rubbernecking accidents on the side of the road. Higher insurance, numerous near-miss accidents with bad drivers who don't yield right of way, slowpokes in the middle and left lane, more oil changes, more tires, more worn out cars. Traffic slows to a crawl and it sucks the life out of you and your car. You will be TIRED on the weekend. When there is freezing rain or a snowstorm coming through your drive can be up to 4 hours long. Doesn't look to me like you are getting away from anything by living so far from work. If you work in S, live in S. If you work in Toronto, live in Toronto. Commuting sucks.



I am pretty sure that Stouffville has lower property taxes than Markham, as I have lived in both places. Also the Stouffville has a lower car accident rate than Markham in comparison.

There is a GO train during rushhours, and GO bus for after hours. Driving would take at least 1.5 hours during rush hour to get down town for sure.

Not sure why they would want to move to Stouffville if they work downtown, unless they work hours that would definitely be suitable to riding the GO train, and not having to take the GO bus, as that is so much longer. And tht would mean no late nights, or extra hours at work, otherwise you would miss the last train.

As MG mentioned, the auto factor for a car or a second car, if they don't already have one downtown, should be factored.

I think that alot of people that moved further out of the city as they have been priced out of properties, but it does cut into your family time.

Me, personally, I couldn't drive further than 30 mins each way for work, otherwise it would take away from family time.

I had a Mattamy home in Stouffville when I was there, and they had a great customer service team, and treated me great. Having said that...they do build in other areas that are closer to downtown too.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i thought they pronounced it on the louisville kentucky model. LOO ah vill.

STOW ah vill.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

"Stuffville" is a joke; much like we pronounced "Stratford" as "St. Ratford" when I was growing up (to go with St. Mary's, St. Jacob's, and other similar towns nearby). 

It's actually pronounced on the Vermont model, e.g. STOWE-ville.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

yes i know it's a joke.

the native speaker said it same as you wrote - STOWEville - but he had just the correct hint of ontario twang - STOW ah vill.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

For the rural lifestyle with a flea market every Saturday and a reasonable commute, Stouville on the Go Train is a reasonable compromise. You can read the paper or do work on the train and spend the time at home as quality time.

I would think it works best for a young family where the schools are nice. For a couple without kids, I do not see it as an option. A friend lived there, but when the family grew up, he moved to the Bay of Quinte and his wife bought a condo in TO.


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