# How do you buy major appliances?



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Being a military family, we move fairly often. Most moves we bring our appliances with us, but this past move we sold the appliances with the house for a variety of reasons. Soon we will be in the market for a new fridge, stove and microwave. My husband insists on having an ice and water dispenser in the fridge, and since the whole family uses this healthy feature, I'm all for it as well. We are willing to pay more $ for higher end appliances, but not willing to go for the "home commercial" or even commercial versions. Our last fridge was a Whirlpool (Kenmore) side by side fridge which was okay, we had little issues with the operation of it, but I don't care for the freezer in a side by side. I find it too narrow and prefer a wide freezer, but could live with the side by side again if need be.

For the stove, I don't like flat tops, I prefer gas but if there's no gas hookup at this new house (there was an electric stove installed and so we're assuming there's no gas but may look into getting a gas h/u put in), then we go with a higher end electric oven, possibly convection if the price is reasonable compared to the non-convections.

I find Sears is good for service, and their sales are very good, especially if you get a scratch and dent sale. But there prices are probably on the high side compared to others. I'm sure there's other options out there. I quickly checked on sears.ca and nothing caught my eye except for the Bosch refrigerators which were stainless steel or stainless steel "looking", and we don't want stainless.

For a washer and dryer, I know the model and brand (front loading) that is reliable, and easy to fix (DIY) if something does break, so we have no problem buying these second hand for a deal.

After that long babble, my point was to ask other CMF users, how do you go about purchasing major appliances when the time comes?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I shop exclusively at the scratch and dent sales - that usually means Sears Outlets for us. I have upgraded our refrigerator and washing machine in the last few years, and that's where I shopped. My mom thinks it is slightly scandalous that my dryer doesn't "match" my washer but c'mon, no one but me ever looks at it anyways!


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

During our new build, we bought all of our appliances at Futureshop. We waited for their regularly occuring appliance sale and bought the kitchen appliances. Then bought our washer and dryer during their boxing day sale.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I go with places which offer best price, service and *delivery*. I don't have the correct vehicles and manpower to move appliances, so they need to come from somewhere setup to deliver.

If I had to buy a new fridge I would definitely go with the type that has the freezer at the bottom. I hate having to stoop down every time I go into the fridge for common things. The average fridge user uses the top once for every 10 times they use the bottom. I would rather bend down to the freezer once than bend down for the fridge 9 times!


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

+1 for the freezer at the bottom. (Did I add enough words to make this a worthwhile post, TRM?)


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

LOL, freezer at top or bottom depends on age and height of kids.
In our house, a bottom freezer will get raided and all the ice cream plundered before we even know it.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I find appliances kind of have to match the house. High end appliances might be worth it in a high end house you're staying in for good, but being military we move and they'll get dinged up or sold anyways. I bought new 3 years ago and had to sell or store for the posting to Europe. Not worth storing so I sold to a friend. I have amazing quality appliances in Germany (Bosch and Constructa) built of much better material and less gimmicky (just functional useful settings, and solid quality material). I'll be looking for dent sales in Canada until I'm done moving, or used from military. There always seems to be military selling appliances for a good deal like me


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

My random thoughts for appliances...

I usually get most of my appliances at Sears because I have found they have the best selection, service, delivery, and they will match all competitors. The exception for us was the dishwasher, as they did not do the hook up, and home depot had the same model, and did. I have been really happy with Sears, that over the years.

For a washer, we went with front load, it's cheaper in terms of energy efficiency, and we went with one that held the most, as I tend to save up my laundry into a few piles as possible. We didn't need alot of features, and except the sanitize, as for us, we just had a second baby when our washer died. 

For the dryer, we went with a large load, high effiecency, and it was one of the cheaper models. Were told the less bells and whistles you have on a dryer the better and less likely hood of it breaking down. So we went pretty cheap for this, and it's workd fine.

Refridgerater - we did want the water ice function, but it was really expensive to hook up because of where our fridge is. Also, keep in mind if you do get the water/ice feature, this is the one time consumer report recommends getting the extended warrenty because these are a higher likely hood to break down, and they are expensive. We went with size, and effieciency. I don't like the side freezers because of the narrowness, and would have like a botttom freezer drawer, as occasionally I do get pelted by falling frozen goods. However, because we have really young kids, we went with a freezer on top, as the little ones could get their stuff more easily, and less likely of the ice cream a frozen stuff being raided, or thrown out of the freezer. 

Stove - we went pretty basic. However, next time, this is where i would spend more. We would get the flat top (I hate the coil, as I always over flow my cooking), and the convection is a great feature. We would also get the one that has the duel oven, so you can cook two dishes at different temperatures, as we do alot of entertaining. 

If you like Sears, shop around for the best price, and then get them to match it. Also, sometimes you can get a little bit of a deal if you get everything from the same place.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> LOL, freezer at top or bottom depends on age and height of kids.
> In our house, a bottom freezer will get raided and all the ice cream plundered before we even know it.


Lol. I never thought about that.

Our appliances aren't that old, but I'll make sure my kids are good and tall before buying a freezer-on-the-bottom fridge.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

What about kijiji? Some vendors are selling stuff new.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I'm going to need new kitchen appliances soon (stove, fridge, and dishwasher) and my main concern is quality. I've read several different places recently that most appliances aren't being made to last as long as they used to be. I don't mind paying more if I'm getting better quality, but how do we know what brands meet that condition? At my age, and assuming I'm able to stay in my one-level rancher-style house for the rest of my life, I want to buy good quality and know I'll never have to replace them again.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

American consumers have driven state of mainstream appliances - lots of useless features and cheap cheap cheap. There are still high end brands, but will probably be a premium. Another reason appliances don't last anymore is the high efficiency means light fragile parts. High efficiency, low price, low reliability but you can just replace them every 5 years, funny that isn't a concern for the environment? My 2007 Maytag dishwasher had to be replaced because they were burning down houses just to fill the consumer craze for cheap junk. Maytag is not what it used to be


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Do new appliances really not last that long?

I bought our refrigerator, washing machine, and kitchen stove in 2002; they're all still in great shape and I've never had to do a single repair on any of them in the past nine years. The fridge is a high-efficiency Energy Star model from Whirlpool; the stove and washing machine are Frigidaire. All standard models, not premium but not the cheapest of the line either.

As for finding reliable models, I just check Consumer Reports (or the French-language analogue in Québec, Protgez-Vous) and read their reviews.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

From a previous long term relationship where my partner was a commercial appliance repair tech, I learned that, although consumer reviews are helpful, to also either talk to the people who service appliances or check DIY repair websites to find out how often these appliances are needing repair, as well as finding out any recall/defect notices etc. It's what attracted me to a particular brand of front load washer and dryer, no electronics on it at all (avoid electronics if at ALL possible on major appliances!), and DIY repairs are a breeze. Plus parts are relatively inexpensive. We've p;urchased a set for dirt cheap as the lady had them in a storage unit and no one else wanted to buy them without seeing them operating.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

With some appliances, you can actually pay more in electricity costs over the lifetime of the appliance than you do for the appliance itself, so it pays to get energy-efficient models. 

As far as consumer reviews go, I always take those with a grain of salt because some manufacturers will hire people to post favourable comments and reviews; I try to stick with reviews from Consumer Reports, etc., although even those are problematic because the appliances aren't reviewed based on long-term performance but rather short-term tests.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

as it happens i need a new fridge so brad's rec is just great !

he said energy star model from Whirlpool, does that ever save a lot of time.

thanx brad i hope you don't mind sharing or mind somebody piggybacking on your careful research.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Excellent point about reviews brad. Kind of reminds me of digital camera reviews online. They all basically read the same, neutral language, it looks like they are afraid of being sued so they write reviews that are descriptions rather than real reviews. This is getting to be a big problem even with comments sections on websites, where various spin doctors post their rhetoric, which then passes as public opinion even though no actual person said that or had that opinion.

Two ways around this:

1. Talk to people you know and find out what specific types they are using, get their opinions, word of mouth, ask about delivery and take-away of old units etc, service, price, all that stuff. just be careful you're not being "buzzed" -- you want to talk to real people who don't care which brand or type you actually buy.

2. go online and google for problems (ie. "brand x problems" or "problems with brand x item y"), read discussion FORUMS where average unpaid people are talking about actual experience. Average unpaid commenters tend to be a lot more liberal with what they say and aren't as worried about company lawyers as big-name websites.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> thanx brad i hope you don't mind sharing or mind somebody piggybacking on your careful research.


Happy to help, but please keep in mind my "careful research" was conducted in 2002 when I was shopping for my fridge. Nine years have passed since then, and doubtless many things have changed. So if I were you I'd still do some research!


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

When we built we bought all the appliances from Sears on the "don't pay for one year" plan with a 10% discount for getting a Sears card. We set aside the GST rebate on the house and collected the interest/had the use of the money for 6+ months before paying them off in full in the 12th month. Of course if you miss that payment date you can be in for a real shock! I don't think I've used that card in 5 years now. 

We did have a small problem before a long weekend within a month of moving in and they didn't want to send out a tech to fix a $15 ignitor, 10 minute job, for our gas drier because the part wouldn't be in town until Friday afternoon. A possible advantage of buying all at once was that I was able to walk in to the showroom, find the manager and inform them that if we didn't see someone to fix it we would return everything based on the lack of service. We were able to do laundry that weekend. It wasn't Sears, but the independent repair tech they contracted that decided that we could wait. 

Our appliances are simple, we do have energy efficient gas models. No complaints.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

My appliances have just celebrated their one year birthday. I *love* them. I do virtually all the shopping, putting away, preparation, cooking and clean up in my house so my appliances are very important to me and I don't mind paying for quality and for features that make my life easier. 

Our fridge is french door with a bottom mount freezer. Awesome fridge. My son still needs the stool to reach stuff in the fridge, but he adapted and, hopefully, he'll grow. We went with the icemaker but not the water feature. Love the ice maker, keep in mind that if your new house isn't already plumbed for the icemaker/water feature that the basement ceiling needs to be unfinished/accessible to hook it up. 

My range is a double range self-cleaning convection. I use the smaller oven 80% of the time. It also uses less than 1/2 the energy of the full oven, so even though it seems like an expensive feature it pays for itself quickly. 

My d/w is pretty standard - but uber quiet, which is important, because in our house the diswasher is close enough to the family room that if it's not quiet it would be a problem. 

A few months after we bought our appliances, some manufacturers came out with the double drawer dishwasher - a dishwasher with two pull out drawers instead of one big door and two levels. You can wash both drawers or just one at a time. If this had been available when we were looking, I would have gone for it since there are lots of times when I really want to turn the dishwasher on (if we are out of cutlery or something) but it isn't full enough so I wash by hand. This would also be a great feature for young families who have baby bottles to sterilize.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

How quickly do these efficiencies actually pay for themselves? In Canada my energy consumption portion of the bill was like $20/month while a convection oven was like double the price. I have a German convection now that is more "appropriately" sized in my opinion, but when I turn on convection it heats the kitchen so much and I don't get what the benefit is? At least in the winter it could save on heat. I'm sure that efficient appliances are cost effective, but replacing them faster is also bad for the environment/pocketbook. If you don't believe they aren't built like they used to, just take apart an old appliance and see for yourself. All the gee wizz features seem pointless to me, a dishwasher/clothes washer work fine without them. My German dishwasher has 2 settings and a start button and cleans perfect and quietly. Appliances can be simple and quality built, but it's the marketing that makes the ones with features better (although less reliable due to electronics). It's like replacing all your lightbulbs with the new expensive ones, only to have them die faster from switching on and off


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> My German dishwasher has 2 settings and a start button and cleans perfect and quietly.


Yes, but I bet it's very energy-efficient as well. German energy efficiency requirements are set very high. Energy efficiency improvements aren't necessarily responsible for shorter lifetimes of appliances.

Your electricity costs in Canada from appliances were low, but you were living in Québec, which has some of the lowest (if not the lowest) electricity rates in North America. 

Take a look at this graph (a bit old now) from the Lawrence Berkely Lab in California, at the profitability of energy efficiency upgrades -- these returns are very favourable:


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yea I don't argue efficiency is cost effective, but sometimes a good excuse to upgrade and also takes the spotlight off of reliability. I bought programmable thermostats and got a rebate from Quebec and the return on investment was certainly not 30% but I suppose after 10 years maybe so


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Addy considering your situation that you move so often if there is Sear Clearance center near you I would look there first.The Brick has commercial pricing when you buy new homes and need everything , they don't advertise it but they do ,they are probably cheaper than most .


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## Zara Mari (May 19, 2011)

It's always best to buy appliances during Christmas season or during promo sales so you can get good deal out of it. My friends and I do it. Or if there is any factory price promo, mark your calendar as they offer the best deal ever.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Everybody thinks their rates are among the lowest. For years I heard that rhetoric in ON but is there data which actually shows how one province's rates stack up against the others? I'm not convinced until I see such a graph.

If there are 10 utilities and you are in the top 9, then I guess you have among the lowest rates? Even if you're in 9th place?

Put another way, if you're in 9th place you are also among the highest.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

See summary on electric rates toward bottom of this page:

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/eneene/sources/eleele/abofai-eng.php


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

It seems the only Sears Outlet stores in Ontario are in the GTA. We will be in Petawawa, so it's not worth out while to check out the scratch and dent as we would have to check so often (we have such specific wants) that it won't be worth the drive just to "check" what they have 

I've found the regular Sears stores prices, even with their larger sales are higher than Future Shop and the Brick. I can't stand the sales people at the Brick though, the two I've dealt with snicker when I say what I want (WTF is up with that?).

Any suggestions for stores I should check out? We can either buy here in Winnipeg and have the appliances shipped via commercial carrier (at no cost to us), or buy them and have them shipped to our new home.

I can't find the washer and dryer we want used, so I'm considering new but I don't want anything with a bunch of b.s. electronics on it, and we want a front loading washing machine. This leaves us with one option at Sears.

We also want a convection stove without a flat top (for many reasons that I won't get into here because it may upset some people who love their flat tops!), and again, that leaves us with one option at Sears.

These three appliances are imo reasonably priced, so we may go for them. The one I'm having a tough time with is the fridge. We want a bottom freezer, dutch door fridge with ice and water dispenser. The one Sears has is okay, but a very similar model is priced less expensively elsewhere (the Brick), at stores I can't stand the arrogant salespeople.

What to do? What to do???


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I'm surprised you found a convection oven without a flat top at all! I can't believe all electric stoves are changing to glass top suckage.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I prefer glasstop stoves to traditional electrics. They are a snap to clean and provide additional counter space when not in use, which can be handy in small kitchens.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I prefer glasstop stoves to traditional electrics. They are a snap to clean and provide additional counter space when not in use, which can be handy in small kitchens.



I can understand the attraction to glass tops. I love how easy they are to clean, and the extra counter space in small kitchens makes sense, I hadn't thought of that before. 

But the glass is tres expensive to replace; if you drop something on it and it cracks, which happens, you'll buy a new stove most likely. No warranty for dropping something on the glass top and breaking it.

I've also noticed glass top stoves are nearly double the price of their coil counterparts. I think this is simply due to gouging because of the new popularity of glass tops, but I could be wrong, maybe there's a valid reason for the large price difference.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> I find Sears is good for service, and their sales are very good, especially if you get a scratch and dent sale. But there prices are probably on the high side compared to others. I'm sure there's other options out there. I quickly checked on sears.ca and nothing caught my eye except for the Bosch refrigerators which were stainless steel or stainless steel "looking", and we don't want stainless.


Bosch makes good stuff. I have a bosch table saw and router...miles ahead of the other brands in quality. 
Here in Kanata (west end of Ottawa), Lowe's just
opened up this year and they are selling Bosch Appliances.

I bought my energy efficient Fridgedaire (18cuft) at Leons for a really good price in March. Free delivery too. 

I generally shop around when I'm looking to buy major appliances. I have never shopped at the Brick, don't particulary like shopping there, but not for the reasons you mentioned. 

The last fridge/stove I bought was at Colonial
furniture here in Kanata, but they were bought out a few years ago..they seemed to have good prices on appliances. (Stove/Fridge). 

In Ottawa, there is a larger market, so there is a lot more competition..Leons, Sears, H-D. Lowes and a few stores that only sell appliances. In smaller centers
like Petawawa/Pembroke, you don't have as much choice for brand names, but Pembroke (10km or so from Petawawa) and it has a Brick! Also Jim's Appliances
and Home Furniture. Don't know if they offer deals, but its about 100 km from Ottawa (2hrs), so unless you can haul your own, you may have to buy locally.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

In the Lowe's Ottawa flyer, they are selling LG front load washer/dryer set for $1296. 4.0 cu ft "titanium" washer 
($748) and a titanium dryer ($548)

"titanium"?..I always thought that was very expensive metal used mostly for aircraft parts...hmmm..

Whirlpool appliances: extra 15% off when you buy 2 or more whirlpool appliances..guess that extra discount pays for the HST in Ontario

22 Cu ft fridge (stainless French door + bottom freezer) $1298 

Stainless range (spill proof top, *hidden bake, steam clean*, true convection $998 

and "special value" front load laundry pair $996

so if one spends about 3 grand on appliances, you get
and additional $450 off?...not a bad deal and you can
get 6 months to pay off the balance. 



But, I don't understand these new fangled terms..
what is "hidden bake"? .... You can't see it baking through the stove door window?..what?

"Steam clean"..that's a new one! Now you have to hook up a water line to the oven to clean it? 
A new twist on self cleaning oven?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Let me google that for you...

Hidden bake seems to refer to protected electric elements (can't spill food on them).

I'm pretty sure the Titanium appliances are Titanium (TM) and not the metal. Boo to misleading marketing.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I paid $7000 for my titanium wheelchair in 2008 ,fairly certain the fridge is not titanium lol .If you can wait til 2013 I will buy new chair and you can try to make a fridge out my wheelchair carver LOL


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

We finally bought our new fridge, stove, washer and dryer from sears (in store). Sales rep was great, got the prices down fairly, and there's a delivery rebate on right now so thats a nice bonus, plus if you put it on your sears card you get 10'x the points... which I wasn't that interested in until I found out that equals an additional $400 in my pocket!

These were not scratch and dent, but considering we're on a bit of a time crunch, the prices were well worth it.

We went with:

Fridge, 22 cubic foot french doors with water and ice for around $1519 Whirlpool with Kenmore label,
Range, 30" coil convection $719, I forget the manufacturer with Kenmore label,
Washer and Dryer, direct drive $1199, Samsung with Kenmore label.

With the bonuses of free delivery and $400 credit. I figure thats a pretty decent deal. I'm sure we could have done a little better shopping around, but I'm quite content with the deal we received. And we got a free extra 3 yr warranty on the fridge that we get back (even though we didn't pay for it) as cash after it's done.... I find this hard to believe and am not counting on it, but we'll see in four years time!

The only machine we paid for warranty was on the washer as they tend to need work done, although with the direct drive I'm thinking less work than the belt driven, with the added bonus of being very quiet!


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I think you did well Addy. Best time to buy stuff from those big boxes is when stuff is on sale and there are rebates etc. I am not sure you could have done any better. Enjoy!


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## cannon_fodder (Apr 3, 2009)

I go to the outlet centres whether it is Sears or Whirlpool. Huge discounts on brand new items (sometimes they have a scratch when delivery was attempted but couldn't occur, or damaged in transit). I don't mind a scratch on something like a washer/dryer but the appliances we purchased for the kitchen were in pristine condition - all the wrappings still in place. I'd say the we paid no more than 70% of the best price we could find elsewhere. It allows us to get higher end appliances for basic unit prices.


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## travelgeek (Nov 29, 2009)

I bought most of my appliances from the scratch and dent section. Sometimes they aren't even damaged at all, but only that they opened the box and cannot sell it as new again. For my dishwasher, the only scratches were on the side of the unit, so who really cares when it's going to be hidden inside the cabinets.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

The last two-dishwasher and washing machine were from Sears.

Looked at Consumers Reports and narrowed it down to a Sears or Whirlpool model. Checked on line. Called Sears and asked them to send it out.

The saleperson at Sears had a sense of humour. He seemed concerned that we were ordering by phone until I asked him if the washing machine was still square and white. Had it delivered in 2 business days (which is why we did web and then phone order)


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