# Fav CDN Telecom Stock?



## Banalanal (Mar 28, 2011)

Rogers. Telus. Bell.

All have a nice dividend growth history. BCE and RCI have considerably more debt than T. What is your favourite company among the three and why?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

1. BCE
2. SJR.B
3. RCI.B
4. T

Reasoning:

Can't argue with Bell, and it has the second biggest yield right now (Shaw with the most). They've obviously been around forever.

I like Shaw as a second choice for its high dividend and possible growth, especially in the more western provinces.

Rogers is my third choice, for no other reason than its share price is lower than Telus, and I think Telus is garbage.

I only own 100 BCE. I would consider 100 Shaw, but will probably never purchase RCI.B or T.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> 1. BCE
> 2. SJR.B
> 3. RCI.B
> 4. T


I agree that BCE is number 1, it's like Canadian T-N. RCI.B I like more than SJR, RCI has better growth potential and dividend growth rate. RCI is almost monopoly in Ontario.
I wouldn't say that Telus is garbage, but I didn't buy it as I hold BCE (the biggest holding ), RCI and SJR

Just wanted to add that those 3 are several of only few stocks where I'm in plus YTD and I'm kicking myself for not buying more of those instead of buying commodity oriented and financial stocks and ETFs...


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Are you guys concerned about what might happen to those companies as the new entrants like Wind Mobile and Mobilicity continue to get larger and expand across Canada? The big three have already been forced to lower their prices in the markets where the entrants operate. Then from the other side, there is Netflix and other similar services taking away a lot of their TV customers.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

You can try playing new entrants like Wind/Globalive through the companies that partly own them, in the case of Wind, VimpelCom (VIP-N)

Unfortunately the majority of ownership in Canadian companies is private, Mobilicity and Public are also private. Massive pension funds like cPP, OMERS hold monopolies on them.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Last I heard Bell is aggressively trying to go private by creating a nice "package" for prospective buyers, the constantly increasing dividends is part of that effort.

Their heart was broken when OTPP LBO deal fell through so I wouldn't count on them being around as a "dividend genie" for retail investors another century. They have zero ambitious plans for expansion outside the country. If all goes well they'll probably receive an offer of $35-50/share, likely the lower end of that range, there isn't much upside for "long term investors" IMO.

Right now (also during the planned OTPP purchase) their biggest issue is interest expense.



> Interest expense of $226 million in the second quarter of 2011 and $417 million on a year-to-date basis represented increases of $56 million, or 32.9%, and $75 million, or 21.9%, respectively, compared to $170 million in Q2 2010 and $342 million on a year-to-date basis in 2010. The increases resulted from higher average debt levels related to the CTV acquisition and the cessation, in 2011, of capitalization of interest expense on our spectrum licences, partly offset by lower average interest rates.


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

BCE. Last month Bell billed me an extra $85 that was automatically charged to my credit card the day *before* I got my bill. I called and they don't refund, only credit to next month. This is probably their sixth billing mistake in 2 years. With such a clever way of receiving interest-free financing for a month a a time, how could they not continue to make money?

Bell: Hate them as a client, love them as an investor.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

lewin said:


> Bell: Hate them as a client, love them as an investor.


I can say exactly the same about Rogers


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

I like BCE and Telus more than Rogers or Shaw (and own them). Everyone hates Bell, but they do provide good nationwide coverage and are rolling out fiber optic.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

ddkay said:


> there isn't much upside for "long term investors" IMO.


I heard this a couple years ago....I bought anyway and added since...I really don't know how much I've made inc dividends but I guess there was "upside" haha.

Personally I'm glad BCE has no aspirations of going multi national....Canada is the sweet spot for telecom/media and that is unlikely to change.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> Are you guys concerned about what might happen to those companies as the new entrants like Wind Mobile and Mobilicity continue to get larger and expand across Canada?


I'm worried about this like I'm worried about PC Financial or ING taking over Royal and TD Bank.

All those small time companies are garbage. I don't even count those on my list. As far as I'm concerned, there are 3 companies. Bell, Telus and Rogers.

I am happy to pay $90/month for my phone bill. Why? Cause it works. I get service everywhere I go, including 3G data.

Try getting that with WIND mobile.


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## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

My rank is:

BCE
T
RCI.B
SJR.B

Currently own 2/4. Will eventually own all 4 and let them DRIP synthetically until retirement days and get the cash instead.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Data has to be the biggest money making machine since the invention of cell phones

Landline and TV subs may wash away but telcos will always make up their bottom line through the wireless businesses with everyone owning a cellphone and data plans that bring in multiple times more ARPU lol

It's really tough to cut costs as a consumer in telecom, this is what my expenses look like including tax:

TV: $0/month (Antenna)
Internet: $31.60/month (TekSavvy Lite cable)
Landline: $5.60/month (voip.ms)
Mobile: $28.25/month (Rogers price/feature matched to Wind, voice only)

Total $65.45


Rogers ARPU as of Q2'11 is $70.07, so I still feel like I'm losing


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

ARPU = ???

Average Revenue Per Unit?


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Yeah, we preferably say user, more humanising


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks.

Never heard of ARPU before being expressed as an acronym. Just tried to make sense of it in my head. 

I was pretty close.


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## Betzy (Feb 7, 2011)

ddkay said:


> It's really tough to cut costs as a consumer in telecom, this is what my expenses look like including tax:
> 
> TV: $0/month (Antenna)
> Internet: $31.60/month (TekSavvy Lite cable)
> ...


That is pretty amazing that you can keep all these services so cheap, good job! i wish i didn't live in the country so all these were available to us...instead i am stuck with bell for everything!


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

A friend of mine recently travelled between Sault Ste Marie and Thunderbay, that's like 9 hours. No Bell coverage. Rogers worked fine though. Rogers covers all Northern Ontario provincial highways and have the best network roaming agreements. Rogers also works miles in the middle of nowhere Alberta. Ergo, Rogers has the best wireless network coverage in the country, and are very competitive on price with retention deals for existing customers. <3

Just don't buy cable TV / internet / home phone from them, those are a rip off.


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## Betzy (Feb 7, 2011)

ddkay said:


> A friend of mine recently travelled between Sault Ste Marie and Thunderbay, that's like 9 hours. No Bell coverage. Rogers worked fine though. Rogers covers all Northern Ontario provincial highways and have the best network roaming agreements.


that's funny, i live 1 hour north of Toronto and am with bell, live, work in a steel building and bell is the only service we get here, all our friends with Rogers have to stand by the window or go outside to get any signal. Iphones all around, so just service is different...now I want to go northern Ontario and Manitoba just to see...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

ddkay said:


> TV: $0/month (Antenna)
> Internet: $31.60/month (TekSavvy Lite cable)
> Landline: $5.60/month (voip.ms)
> Mobile: $28.25/month (Rogers price/feature matched to Wind, voice only)
> ...


I pay more that your total just for cable


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

gibor said:


> I pay more that your total just for cable


Yes I think it is very untypically low.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

The answer is Telus.

Those dogging on T obviously live out east. Out west, Telus is cutting into Shaw's market share like a guillotine in Revolutionary France. Their products are superior, their customer service is better, and they have unique advertising. All technicals and fundamentals for the stock itself are sound. I'm a happy client and shareholder.

1. Telus
2. BCE
3. Rogers
4. Shaw

I wouldn't even buy Shaw with your money.


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## drip99 (Aug 27, 2009)

Argonaut said:


> The answer is Telus.
> 
> Those dogging on T obviously live out east. Out west, Telus is cutting into Shaw's market share like a guillotine in Revolutionary France. Their products are superior, their customer service is better, and they have unique advertising. All technicals and fundamentals for the stock itself are sound. I'm a happy client and shareholder.
> 
> ...


True...Shaw needs to watch their market share. Not sure what is going on with them....Laid off 500 people, switched CEO's, withdrew from the cellphone market.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Shaw CS used to be excellent. Now wait times of 60 minutes plus are standard.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I'm worried about this like I'm worried about PC Financial or ING taking over Royal and TD Bank.
> 
> All those small time companies are garbage. I don't even count those on my list. As far as I'm concerned, there are 3 companies. Bell, Telus and Rogers.
> 
> ...


Well Wind just uses Rogers's network when you're not in a Wind zone, so wherever Rogers users have access, Wind users have access, it's just that roaming chargers apply when on Rogers network. But I have never had my phone tell me I wasn't in a Wind zone anywhere I've gone in the GTA.

You could be paying $30/month for unlimited talk, text AND data with wind, and their data plan has no cap whereas Bell I think is something like 6 gb/month. But enjoy paying $90.


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## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

gibor said:


> I pay more that your total just for cable


Same!

I won't give up HBO Canada... too many good shows. Oh yeah, and the golf channel.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> You could be paying $30/month for unlimited talk, text AND data with wind, and their data plan has no cap whereas Bell I think is something like 6 gb/month. But enjoy paying $90.


Duly noted.

However, I travel too much outside of the GTA to be tied down.

For instance - This weekend I will be 2.5 hours away from the GTA.... that's no good for me.


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## Dibs (May 26, 2011)

Here is a new article on BCE vs Telus. 
http://www.thedividendguyblog.com/bce-vs-telus/


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Telus's dividend yield is lower, but I am a huge fan of their non-voting shares, which yield 10% more and cuts in half the difference between BCE with the promise of higher dividend growth. I'm never going to vote, I'm just in it for the money. Also they raised their dividend in the latest quarter from $0.55 to $0.58, which was not widely reported.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree, I have no idea why the average investor would buy the voting shares, we wouldn't accumulate enough shares for our votes to make a difference..

The non voting has the same payout, and thus a better yield.


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