# TDB8150 - TDW error / Free money....?



## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey all,

So I'm kind of an idiot.

On Friday in my TFSA I made an order for $16300 of TDB8150.

I went on my merry way and took a look at my account yesterday morning. When I looked, it was like my order was gone. It wasn't in historical, or activity, and my account showed it all in cash as though no transaction had been made.

I thought 'maybe I didn't enter my trading password for final confirmation'. So I placed the trade again and made sure it showed up in my order status.

Well I saw yesterday at the end of the day the first order status reappeared and said filled, and the second order went up and said open. I called TDW to get it corrected - no luck, the guy said just sell it tomorrow if it gets filled.

So I log on today, and see that I have $32600 in equities, and -$16300 in cash...

The order for TDB8150 says Filled (on the second order).

So question 1: Is this something that TDW will correct you think? I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Question 2: Is this free money? Like am I earning 1.25% with money that I haven't borrowed on any sort of 'margin', and thus am not paying any interest on....?

Question 3: I spoke to the TDW guy who said this will in no way affect my TFSA limits and that the call was recorded and he could guarantee that it won't. Does that seem right?

Thoughts?

Thanks!


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I've often found that he online "status" of my orders is often wrong in the short term, but I can guarantee you that they will correct it and hold you responsible for all the funds...usually within a few days.

I believe that with the stock market, you often have a couple of days to actually have the stocks paid, but everything goes through at the sale price. Of course, if your stocks devalue before you sell, you're on the hook for the difference.

You may be able to call and get the trading fees wiped out for the buy and sell since your screen showed the error though.


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

It's TDB8150, so it's the investment HISA mutual fund.

There shouldn't be any comission fees on this to buy or sell I believe.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

Erome said:


> question 1: Is this something that TDW will correct you think? I guess I'll find out tomorrow.
> 
> Question 2: Is this free money? Like am I earning 1.25% with money that I haven't borrowed on any sort of 'margin', and thus am not paying any interest on....?
> 
> ...


A1: Call TDW. As you can't hold a negative cash balance in a registered account, I presume TD will eventually take action... but... when is the question.
If you end up selling it yourself, you'll want to call TD to ensure you don't accidentally sell at the same time TD does, and end up with two sell transactions.

A2: No. 
As a general rule of thumb in life: if you think you're getting free money from a financial institution: think harder.
Once the settlement date arrives, you are borrowing money from TD. TD may or may not pass the interest charge onto you (maybe it will be so small they won't bother), but you are borrowing money and there is a cost associated with it.

3. Yes.
TFSA contribution rules apply to money going into, and out of, the account. A separate set of rules apply to acceptable holdings and transactions within the account.


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

Ok, thanks for the info!

At the same time I sent another $1200 to my TFSA so it was sitting in cash, and the - value is -$15,100.

So I made an order to sell the $15,100, so it should bring my cash balance to 0 after.

One thing I noticed was a comment about $45 or 3% fee for holding less then 30 days. I suppose if this occurs I will just call TDW to get that waived?


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Also my pet peeve that their orders take a day or two to actually show up in the account online, if you call in they have the up-to the minute info. I have had a dividend payment take over a week to show up online.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Cal said:


> Also my pet peeve that their orders take a day or two to actually show up in the account online, if you call in they have the up-to the minute info. I have had a dividend payment take over a week to show up online.


Call in and talk to a person, their records are complete.
Mutual funds don't have phone commissions, take advantage of that fact.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

this seems to be a case of too many cooks spoil the broth.

me i'd put myself entirely into the hands of TD the broker. Can you get back to the rep who told you the call was recorded & he'd guarantee that your TFSA won't be affected, once the blunder is corrected? he sounds responsible & helpful, did you note his name or extension number?

if not, do find somebody else who seems to be equally responsible & ask him or her to own the problem. What the broker is going to do is 1) clear out the debit, 2) make sure there are no interest calculations or other uproar that is not suitable for a registered account, & 3) make sure you end up with that new $1200 cash contribution in the account.

for your part, i think you should stop fiddling with this account. Stop cold turkey. No more orders for at least 10 days. No more contributions. Just sit tight while the broker works. 

accept the fact that updates take at least 24 hours, occasionally even 48, during which time part of the account may vanish into cyberspace & you will not be able to *see* it. Accept this fact now & forever. Accept it down to the marrow of your bones each:


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

BoringInvestor said:


> A1: Call TDW. *As you can't hold a negative cash balance in a registered account,* I presume TD will eventually take action... but... when is the question.
> If you end up selling it yourself, you'll want to call TD to ensure you don't accidentally sell at the same time TD does, and end up with two sell transactions.
> 
> A2: No.
> ...


You can. I have. Only 4 dollars or so and no charges came about in my case. Can't speak for the OP and his balance. I cleaned it up about 6 weeks later by selling and opening up a little cash. No biggie.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

RBull said:


> You can. I have. Only 4 dollars or so and no charges came about in my case. Can't speak for the OP and his balance. I cleaned it up about 6 weeks later by selling and opening up a little cash. No biggie.


Legally you shouldn't have done so.
Practically: if the amounts are small enough they may go unnoticed/unenforced.

In the OPs case - it's rather large and would have been dealt with by TD.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

RBull said:


> You can [run a negative balance in a registered account]. I have. Only 4 dollars or so and no charges came about in my case. Can't speak for the OP and his balance. I cleaned it up about 6 weeks later by selling and opening up a little cash. No biggie.



bull i beg to differ slightly. *You* can, but other clients (read smaller, newer accounts, probably most accounts) cannot.

these things are decided by hand, by the credit & registered account gnomes in the big green back office in the sky. Some accounts are more gracefully decided in favour of the client, is what it boils down to.

bull i _know_ you'd _never_ want to mislead other tddi clients into thinking that _anybody_ can borrow $$ in rrsp & collect interest & everything will be etsi-ketsi.


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## Erome (Jan 11, 2011)

FYI:

The balance of my account stayed at $32600 of TDB8150 and -$15100 cash for a few days.

I made the sell order to sell TDB8150 for $15100, and the order went through fine.

The account is now at $17500 (as it is supposed to be) and 0 cash balance.

I wonder how long til they would have done something?


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