# Are you a customer or a volunteer?



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

*Some SDM staff say they're 'fed up' over pressure to push self-checkout*

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/shoppers-drug-mart-staff-theyre-080000380.html



> Several employees at Loblaws-owned stores said they've been pressured recently to push customers to use self-checkout, driven by a company quest to get more people using the machines.
> 
> "They're trying to get us to force [customers] to go to self-checkout," said a cashier at a Shoppers Drug Mart in Ontario. "They've made cashiers feel like if they don't do this, something bad is going to happen."
> 
> CBC News is keeping employees' names confidential because they fear repercussions from their employer. ...


 ... not that it matters to me as I don't shop at Loblaws. 

But if I see only self-checkout in a store, I'll run to the nearest exit. Bye, bye.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I also don't like being pushed to do self checkout, but I do find some advantages to the self checkout process.

The main advantage for me is double checking prices and fixing improper scans. When I go to a regular cashier, the prices flash by so fast that I can't verify (catch) the incorrect prices. Since I buy a lot of fruits and vegetables it's very easy for the cashier to enter the wrong code and charge me for premium peppers when I'm actually buying pedestrian peppers. Or, if I've grabbed the wrong item off the shelf... which was above the wrong price label for example... I can't catch those at a cashier.

At the self checkout, I take my sweet time without regard to throughput. I scan the item, think about whether I like the price, then bag it. Or cancel the item if I see that it's wrong somehow. I'm confident that this results in cost savings for me. It takes me longer than a cashier checkout but I love having the ability to scrutinize each and every price.

I do catch a lot of mistakes, wrong scans, and items that weren't the price I thought.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^


> ... At the self checkout, I take my sweet time without regard to throughput. I scan the item, think about whether I like the price, then bag it. Or cancel the item if I see that it's wrong somehow. I'm confident that this results in cost savings for me.* It takes me longer than a cashier checkout but I love having the ability to scrutinize each and every price.*


 ... ? does the store you shop at not have the price on display? Also, I thought the idea of "self-checkout" was to speed things up for the customer o/w known as "increased efficiencies" per Loblaws CEO. 



> I do catch a lot of mistakes, wrong scans, and items that weren't the price I thought.


 ... so what do you do about those price "mistakes"?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I prefer the self-checkout, use it about 95% of the time I go shopping as it's way faster for me.

P.S. I think most people should use the cashier though so it keeps the self-checkouts open.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

cainvest said:


> I prefer the self-checkout, use it about 95% of the time I go shopping as it's way faster for me.
> 
> *P.S. I think most people should use the cashier though so it keeps the self-checkouts open*.


 ... and vice-versa. 

I hope everyone uses the self-checkouts so that the cashier line gets shorter as witnessed today at a "renovated with self-checkouts" supermarket. :smiley_simmons:


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I don't use self checkouts because I prefer to keep someone employed. Checkout isn't glamorous work and those who do so have my respect and I'd rather support them than save a few minutes.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Sometimes one, sometimes the other. I'll go to whichever looks like it will get me out of the store faster. I don't do much grocery shopping ( like about zero ); but at Home Depot and Lowes, I find that the self-check is usually the best bet. I was reluctant to use the self-check at first if I had bulky items, but there's usually someone there to scan the item with their hand-held scanner.

And then there's ATM machines. I went into the bank recently for a draft ( financial instrument, not a beer ) and there was a long lineup for the ATM machines, with two unoccupied tellers. People have become so used to the machines, it doesn't seem to occur to them that the tellers can do whatever the machine does, and more.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... and vice-versa.
> 
> I hope everyone uses the self-checkouts so that the cashier line gets shorter as witnessed today at a "renovated with self-checkouts" supermarket. :smiley_simmons:


Watch out for that ... if it happens they'll remove more cashier lines!


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

james4beach said:


> I do catch a lot of mistakes, wrong scans, and items that weren't the price I thought.


You should check if the store has a 'scanning code of practice'. If it scans at the wrong price, you get it for free (up to $10) - at least here in Ontario.

I'm usually price-matching something, and you can't price match at the self-checkout at the local no frills, so I'll be going to a regular checkout.

When I've tried self-checkout, more often than not, there's a problem like

bring a bag and put it down - get a 'you must scan the item first'
bagging area gets full, but as soon as you try to move it off to load another bag... 'leave the item in the bagging area'
I just prefer to keep someone employed.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ ... ? does the store you shop at not have the price on display? Also, I thought the idea of "self-checkout" was to speed things up for the customer o/w known as "increased efficiencies" per Loblaws CEO.


The prices are displayed, but I catch wrong prices often enough. (Same is true at Loblaws/Superstore, which is why you have to keep an eye out, and then invoke the Scanning Code of Practice to get the item for free). At the store I shop at the most, I find that sale items sometimes don't scan through correctly.

The other hiccup is, as I mentioned, using the wrong code on a fruit/vegetable. Whether it's the cashier or myself, both of us can accidentally use the wrong code. The difference is that when I self-checkout scan, I have enough time to catch it. When the cashier does it really fast, I can't catch the mistake.

So in one case, the store has made a mistake, and in the second case, the person scanning the item has made a mistake. Both are worth catching to save $. This happens everywhere I go. On a recent, single grocery shopping trip:

* olive oil on the shelf, sale $4 incorrectly scanned at $5 -- store's mistake
* avocadoes advertised as 2 for $5 scanned through as $6 -- store's mistake

At Loblaws stores under Scanning Code of Practice, I would have had both of those items for free (savings of $9). If you watch out for it, you'll see it happens pretty often in reality. Most people just don't catch these things as you have to retain the prices in your head while you shop, but I have a great memory for numbers. There was a summer in Toronto where I repeatedly got bags of avocadoes for free at the flagship Loblaws store because the store never fixed their computers, so every time I invoked Scanning Code of Practice to get the item free.



> ... so what do you do about those price "mistakes"?


If the scan is wrong and I want the item, I call them out. This sends the employees to go look at the price, and once they verify I'm right, it's solved (save $). If the mistake was mine, and I typed in the wrong code, then I cancel the item, correct the code, and enter it again (save $).

If the item on the shelf was shifted under the wrong price tag, which also happens often enough, I then decide whether I want the more expensive item. Usually the answer is no, so I cancel the item (save $).

In all cases I save money, while taking my sweet time at the self checkout. Stores which have lots of incorrect prices suffer from their own ineptitude as I then take even longer at checkout and cancel, or have them check more items.

*Tip*: whenever you see a sale or temporary mark-down price, memorize or take a photo of the price on the shelf. In my experience these are the most likely to scan incorrectly. If it's at a Loblaws store, insist on Scanning Code of Practice to get the item for free. Point to the policy which is on a sticker near the checkout. Tap it repeatedly if they don't seem to understand.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

At first I would get a lot of error messages until I learnt the mysterious ways of the self checkout machines, but now I am more comfortable with them. My default supermarket has recently introduced wine, which requires going to a human cashier so I (age 61) can prove I am of an age to buy alcohol. But if the cashier is underage, as is frequently the case, they have to call in a manager, which slows things down. So now I have to scan the cashiers to find the ones with grey hair!

Once in a while, when I need a lot of bulky items, I shop online and get my order delivered. Last week they didn’t have the 1L of buttermilk that I ordered, so I got 2L for the price of one. And they didn’t have the 1Kg bag of Lavazza coffee, so I got 4 x 250g bags instead (which will stay fresh for longer). And the store brand frozen raspberries on sale had run out, so they gave me a more expensive brand instead. I saved more than the $7.95 delivery fee, I saved myself a lot of time schlepping groceries, and I kept several people employed.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

If swiping my own items keeps prices low, great.

If I'm ordering a lot, I have them pick it up and deliver it to me in the parking lot. 

Walmart and Loblaws offer this.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I only use self check out if I have a few items, otherwise I prefer the cashier. I alaways get the error because of how I bag. 

I have my bagging down to a system so I find it better that the cashier scanning. I am also able to catch any errors with no problem. 

The other day I had no choic but to use the self scanning. I needed windshield wiper fluid, there was only self scan. The stupid thing wouldn’t allow me to properly because I could set them down properly, the price rang in wrong, then I had to call for SCOP. It would have been so much easier for a cashier to help me.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> The prices are displayed, but I catch wrong prices often enough. (Same is true at Loblaws/Superstore, which is why you have to keep an eye out, and then invoke the Scanning Code of Practice to get the item for free). At the store I shop at the most, I find that sale items sometimes don't scan through correctly.
> 
> The other hiccup is, as I mentioned, using the wrong code on a fruit/vegetable. Whether it's the cashier or myself, both of us can accidentally use the wrong code. The difference is that when I self-checkout scan, I have enough time to catch it. When the cashier does it really fast, I can't catch the mistake.
> 
> ...


 ... isn't this a PITA, if not a waste of time? I'm sure your wage is more than $10 an hour.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Watch out for that ... *if it happens they'll remove more cashier lines!*


 ... they can go self-checkouts full mode for all I care. Like I mentioned, when that happens, I'll head for the exit and go to their competitor.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... they can go self-checkouts full mode for all I care. Like I mentioned, when that happens, I'll head for the exit and go to their competitor.


Unless they all go that route to save money ....

I wonder if the speed of moving customers along is one reason many grocery stores are including more self checkouts. I have noticed that places like Costco move people through much faster then your typical grocery store cashiers.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Speed supposedly was one of the reason for self-checkouts installations but it proved to be hardly that ...see J4B's posts evidencing his sweet time managing that. 

And if this self-checkout mania is all the rage of the future, I find it funny to see this headline:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canadian-tire-self-checkout-cashiers-automation-1.5011981

*Why some stores have pulled their self-checkout machines*

I wonder who end up paying for the installation and then the de-installation of these machines or do they just dismantle by itself since humans are no longer required (except for those brilliant minded executives sitting up at the ivory towers, pushing buttons. Or beans-counting their annual million $ bonuses.)

PS: I'm not against folks who prefer to wholy self-checkouts. But don't force it on folks who don't wish to via pressuring and punishing clerks/cashiers to enforce it.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I wonder if the speed of moving customers along is one reason many grocery stores are including more self checkouts. I have noticed that places like Costco move people through much faster then your typical grocery store cashiers.


Well, sometimes a full cart at Costco only has 8 items.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

This kind of a segue, but related in a way. I have recently heard that mainline banks are changing some (a lot?) of their branches to more or less self-serve: - the one clerk is just there to help you if you have trouble using the ATM machine; or to direct you to a "full-service" branch if you need to deal with a live person.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> But don't force it on folks who don't wish to via pressuring and punishing clerks/cashiers to enforce it.


Well I haven't seen any customer heading for (or in) a cashier line forcefully taken over to self checkouts ... yet. 

Hopefully sooner than later we'll all enjoy the "amazon style" store without cashiers or self-checkouts.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

OhGreatGuru said:


> This kind of a segue, but related in a way. I have recently heard that mainline banks are changing some (a lot?) of their branches to more or less self-serve: - the one clerk is just there to help you if you have trouble using the ATM machine; or to direct you to a "full-service" branch if you need to deal with a live person.


 ... perhaps in a small town. I can't see a metropolitan having only a self-serve branch ... if so, just close the branch completely. Everyone can bank virtually and all the working minions can go collect EI. 

However, there is one positive aspect - by teller-less branches, at least you're not pulled into purchasing useless bank products (aka mutual funds and the likes).


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Well I haven't seen any customer heading for (or in) a cashier line forcefully taken over to self checkouts ... yet.
> 
> *Hopefully sooner than later we'll all enjoy the "amazon style" store without cashiers or self-checkouts.*


 ... yep, more junks for the storage unit.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... if so, just close the branch completely. Everyone can bank virtually...


Not everyone can; estate executors can't bank virtually. Everything must be done in person.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I use whatever will be faster. If I have 25 items or less, generally I'll use the self checkouts, unless I can waltz up to a live cashier who has nothing to do. Superstore has a rule of having all checkouts staffed on weekends, which makes for short or non-existent lines at many times. THe no-frills that I go to don't have self checkouts and the lineups aren't very long anyways. Home depot I'll use whatever's fastest - generally the self checkouts.

The only time when I've had no option to use but the self checkouts has been 10-15 mins before closing. They're usually well staffed in case of issues. I find the self checkout computers are often too slow for me - I can scan and punch in numbers faster than the computer is able to handle it.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

cainvest said:


> ...
> Hopefully sooner than later we'll all enjoy the "amazon style" store without cashiers or self-checkouts.


All of us old fogies without smart phones will be keeping real clerks in jobs for a while.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Both online shopping and self checkout have big problems to solve.

Last I read, Amazon was still losing money on their online retail business. They were earning profit from their streaming and other businesses. Their main problems are the cost of delivery and the amount of customer returns. They receive so many customer returns they have warehouses full of stuff they auction off as pallet loads online. Customers also order different styles and colours of one item and send them back, and they have to be classified as used products. My sister said the same thing happened at the Sears outlet she worked in. Women would buy 3 dresses just before New Years, decide which one they were going to wear and then return all 3.......one of them with sweat stains, and claim a refund.

They will have to change their customer return policy or charge higher prices to account for the cost. The problem is that customers won't like either of those scenarios.

On self checkout, my niece is a manager for a new Walmart superstore. They initially installed self checkout machines but discovered their "shrinkage" (theft) went through the roof. I asked her how people steal and she said they put an item or two in a bag and then remove it from the scale. They put a new bag on the scale and then put an item in it. Then they don't scan items and put them in the first bag that is removed from the scale. They work in teams and have someone distract the cashier working in the area, while they load up. Walmart doesn't ask people to unload their bags to check on the items.
They removed all the self checkout units, and their loss to theft returned back to a normal level.

Notice that in Costco, they check out everything but don't bag everything. Then employees wait at the exit door to check the receipt and items in the cart.

I don't think the retailers have sorted out how to deal with the combination of customer expectations and how to deliver them without going broke.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> OhGreatGuru said:
> 
> 
> > This kind of a segue, but related in a way. I have recently heard that mainline banks are changing some (a lot?) of their branches to more or less self-serve: - the one clerk is just there to help you if you have trouble using the ATM machine; or to direct you to a "full-service" branch if you need to deal with a live person.
> ...


Seems pretty close to only a self-service branch with a common area to show how to bank online and all the offices for /TFSA/RRSP/CC/mortgage types. There's no desk with multiple tellers - though the person behind the info desk was able to take a cheque for a spousal RRSP deposit.

Population is over 300K.




Beaver101 said:


> ... Everyone can bank virtually ...


For some that would be a disaster ... likely fewer and fewer though.




Beaver101 said:


> ... However, there is one positive aspect - by teller-less branches, at least you're not pulled into purchasing useless bank products (aka mutual funds and the likes).


 ... unless you are in the branch to see someone other than a teller. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^


> ... unless you are in the branch to see someone other than a teller.


 ... and just who else will you be seeing in a branch? The CEO? :biggrin: 

On a second thought, I don't think you can even avoid being pushed useless bank products from the teller-desk as they've been instructed (aka pushed) to "sell and upsell" as well. Example "Oh, you have been pre-approved for a LOC or cc. All I have to do is activate it for you." Right, at 7% interest. 
:rolleyes2:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Banking online only slows down the rate of being offered products but does not eliminate it. I am regularly deleting these offers from my answering machine or deleting emails. The source bank account does not have branches :rolleyes2:


Cheers


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... perhaps in a small town. I can't see a metropolitan having only a self-serve branch ... if so, just close the branch completely. Everyone can bank virtually and all the working minions can go collect EI.
> 
> However, there is one positive aspect - by teller-less branches, at least you're not pulled into purchasing useless bank products (aka mutual funds and the likes).


This is in a metropolitan area (Ottawa). I suspect they will eventually replace the "limited service branches" with just ATMs. This is just easing the pain, to discourage people from moving to a competitor.


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