# UPS brokerage rip off



## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Unfortunately I ordered something from the USA and UPS was used. They want $65 for 30 seconds of work, that is forwarding HST to the government. I have found techniques on the web to pay the HST in person at a CBSA office, but that would be a 4 hour round trip to the nearest one. I have a an inquiry in with CBSA as to any techniques that don't involve a personal appearance, but am not hopeful.

So they likely have me over a barrel. Best case is to refuse delivery, get a refund and order through another firm that uses the USPS. This of coarse assumes that the company would give a full refund. I actually saw the item at another company at the same price, but shipping was $20 more (USPS!), but that was in hindsight the correct move.

I first fell into this trap some 15 years ago, and am usually awake enough to avoid UPS, but this time I slipped up. I don't know how the same package can get here via USPS without needing a broker, one of those mysteries in life.

So folks, those of you importing Christmas gifts, at all costs avoid shipping via UPS.

hboy43


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

How expensive was the item? I would be inclined to refuse the item if it were a smaller amount.

Like you, I try to stick as far away from UPS as I can.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I got nailed by UPS once too so I really feel for you. Fedex also nabbed me for some taxes (that's cool) plus a fee for their service of collecting the tax (ridiculous). The tax was $10. The fee was $15. Live and learn, right? I find USPS to be the best priced in the long run. Just shipping and duty, but you luck out with a lot of the time on duty. They've overlooked duty for me more times than not which is a nice treat.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Actually you should avoid anything other than USPS, unless the place you shop has all in price upon checkout (hst, duties, broker fee and freight), some do.
If a company doesn't want to use USPS, or there is no all in price I don't order.

I have made this mistake once and got UPS shipment from states, called UPS to complain about their exuberant charges and got all of it back, UPS called it one time good faith refund ;-)

On the other hand quite often when shipped through USPS I don't even get dinged for sales tax.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I wouldn't say you were 'nabbed' for taxes.

You are obligated to pay GST on most items, and depending on the country of manufacture, and the type of item, possibly import taxes. You need to do this regardless of whether you bring the item into the country yourself, or if you have a broker do it for you.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Sampson said:


> I wouldn't say you were 'nabbed' for taxes.
> 
> You are obligated to pay GST on most items, and depending on the country of manufacture, and the type of item, possibly import taxes. You need to do this regardless of whether you bring the item into the country yourself, or if you have a broker do it for you.


No, hst is not a problem, it's the brokerage fee (not even duty tax) that we are pissed off about. Not a tax, a fee UPS chages for putting a stamp on the parcel.


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## ban (Nov 1, 2012)

Sorry to hear that.
http://trueler.com/2010/09/13/ups-brokerage-fees-total-scam-fraud-cheating-avoid-it/


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I understand the basis of the thread and how many people fee 'duped' by the service fees. Not too many choices because it really depends on the vendor, and whether they offer service using other brokerages or directly with USPS.

One has to look for the best deal sometimes. FedEx Intl priority will include brokerage fees, and if the difference in cost is not substantial over UPS, then it can be a better option.

In the end, it still often makes sense to buy from the US and pay those fees. For those living near the border, you can always use post box type services that will hold your package for pickup, but depending on where you are, you have to ask yourself if you want to spend time waiting at the border to save the money.

I order from some vendors that use UPS service exclusively, I don't like the brokerage fee, but in the end, it is still cheaper than buying within Canada.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I hate when shipping exceeds the value of my order, but for rare things, sometimes you don't have a choice...

For common things - Canadian retailers are very stubborn about lowering their prices. They know a minority of people will drive across the border or import from online, and the majority will shop local...


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

ban said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> http://trueler.com/2010/09/13/ups-brokerage-fees-total-scam-fraud-cheating-avoid-it/


Self clearing.. now there's an option. Sounds like a nightmare though. The comments section on that page is filled with arguments and confusion. :cower:


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Generally, should avoid ground services from any of the carriers. They compete on price point for ground services, but gouge on the fees. I only ship USPS, or if no USPS is available, most air shipping services from UPS or even DHL should cover the brokerage fee as part of the service.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Most online companies in the US have no clue about the UPS and Fedex ripoffs. Best to avoid anyone that will not ship USPS.

For small items, Hong Kong will use Royal Mail which is even better than USPS.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Well, the nice young lady called from UPS at 7 this morning, wondering if I would be home, and oh, by the way we want $99. I indicated that I was willing to pay the taxes but I wasn't going to pay the $65. The word extortion was used, because let's be honest, this is what it is. They collect money from you, make a computer entry, and at the end of the month they write a check to the Government for the taxes owing. It either isn't or shouldn't be any more complicated than this. The alternative, making a personal appearance at CBSA isn't a competitive option for anyone at the $100 level, and certainly not for me way out here in the bush. She invited me to call the 1-800 number, but I said I was not going to. I told her I paid for delivery, and I expected the package to come to my house, if need be we can call the 1-800 number from here. Oh, the driver can't waste his time driving all the way out there and then spend time on the phone... The conversation ended with something like "it is not the driver's fault ...". I said I agree it is whatever ****ole at the board level that instituted this policy.

We will see if at this point the package gets kicked back to the retailer, or I get another call. As far as I am concerned, it isn't delivered until it is on my soil. The retailer paid for delivery and it never came. I have no contract with UPS at this point, UPS is contracted with the retailer.

Of coarse the Federal government is a villain here too. Why isn't there a government web page to enter some kind of tracking number, and payment by credit card. All that is happening here is the guaranteeing of HST revenues. Why do we allow UPS to get a windfall?

hboy43


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

I once got burned on the UPS brokerage charges. Never used them again. 
I make it a point that if I'm ordering from the US to ensure the shipper ships by USPS/Canada Post. 

Not only is the CP customs brokerage fee reasonable ,$8, (used to be $5),but most of the time the package (depending on the declaration), gets delivered with only the brokerage fee/taxes. or sometimes it is just dropped off at my door, without any CP charges or taxes owing too. 
I've never been able to figure out why..but hey..I'm not going to look a "gift horse" in the mouth. :biggrin: 

While UPS may be the standard way to ship in the US, and some companies have a agreement with UPS if they specify "free shipping"...that only applies to the US, where there is no additional customs clearance. 

As soon as it comes into Canada..watch out for the hefty UPS customs charges that can exceed the original purchase price in some cases.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I've had this happen to me as well.

There have been a couple of class action lawsuits over these fees, but none have been successful so far (I think one of them is still active)

I agree that the best option is USPS. I often don't even get charged any brokerage or tax at all. Another alternative to UPS, Fedex charges a flat $10 brokerage for ground shipments.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The post office belongs to the same government as customs. Your local post office is a customs office and they can deliver the package or hold it and ask you to come and open it for inspection.

UPS, Fedex etc. do not have this right. They must clear everything thru customs at the border then bring it on from there. This costs them a certain amount of expense and inconvenience but their charges seem excessive. I don't buy anything from outside Canada unless it can be sent by mail or the value of the article negates the expense.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I'm truely amazed at how vehemently opposed to these fees people are. hboy's example is unique because I gather the value of the purchased item is not high, but the brokers cost will be somewhat fixed, in terms of paperwork required compared to a similar, but more expensive item.

Do people really go out of their way not to buy from vendors that use UPS? So would you pay net more just to avoid the service? If you have a choice, sure skip the big brown and talk with your $, but if you had to pay $100 in brokerage fees on a $1000 item vs. $1200 with no fee, would you avoid the broker?


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Sampson, I am not sure what are you trying to prove, the example that hboy is talking about is not unique, because of most imported items are of fairly low value. 
From the consumer point of view it is usually much cheaper to purchase if the sender is using USPS, there are some US vendors that don't ship via USPS, but you know upfront what your total will be upon checkout because they collect all fees and taxes upon purchase. 
If a vendor doesn't offer either of the two options quite often you will end up paying more than if you were to purchase locally (on top of it difficulties with returns and so on).
I quite frankly don't give a damn about their fixed cost, I want to pay as little as possible for the item, and quite often it doesn't make sense to purchase if broker fees are so high.
Not sure what you are amazed about.


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

Sampson said:


> Do people really go out of their way not to buy from vendors that use UPS? So would you pay net more just to avoid the service? If you have a choice, sure skip the big brown and talk with your $, but if you had to pay $100 in brokerage fees on a $1000 item vs. $1200 with no fee, would you avoid the broker?


I just might. Why would I give my hard earned cash to a business whose policies I am completely against? I consider the extra cash a donation towards good customer policies. Another example, why do people shop at Costco? The price is usually not super good (i.e., some places are cheaper). IMO, the customer policies, by themselves, are worth the detour.

Also your example is not as clear cut as it usually is in real life. It is more a question of: would you rather pay 1200$ all inclusive by using USPS or 1150$ or maybe 1300$ by using UPS. UPS just decides randomly (or so it appears) that it will charge you a bunch of money to clear something. 

Besides even if UPS was cheaper, they usually have only one depot/store per city where you can pick up your shipments and this place is usually in the industrial side of the city where it is very inconvenient to pick up your stuff. Since you work for a living and you invariably miss the truck the only time that they try to deliver, you need to go there on Friday night (they are not open Saturday) to stand in line for 40 minutes to get your package. 

Comparatively, Can Post has several pickup locations in my neighboorhood, one of which is within walkable distance from my house.

Yep, I really don't like UPS.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Guigz said:


> Besides even if UPS was cheaper, they usually have only one depot/store per city where you can pick up your shipments and this place is usually in the industrial side of the city where it is very inconvenient to pick up your stuff. .


We actually have one not too far, Fedex on the other hand told me the nearest pick up point is about 40Km away, ;-) that order obviously got cancelled ;-)


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Well, here is the update from CBSA. The short version is that you have to visit your "local" office in person to clear yourself. As if any office in a country the size of Canada is local to more than a handful of people. Completely absurd. They just sent me a canned response as I clearly indicated in my note to them that a personal visit to a CBSA office is not on due to geography.

*You may have the option of refusing the brokerage services offered by the courier company, choosing instead to clear the goods yourself at the local Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) office. 

It is recommended that prior to receiving your shipment you contact the courier company and inform them of your wish to "self-clear" the shipment. The company will explain their procedures to you. 

If you did not advise the courier before the attempted delivery of the shipment, you may refuse delivery and advise the courier of your intention to self-clear. You must record the ‘unique shipment identifier number’, which is the number the courier assigns each shipment. The courier may advise how you can prove that the shipment has been accounted for by the CBSA, or that you have paid any applicable duties and taxes. The shipment may be returned to the courier's warehouse to await your clearance. Please be aware that the courier may refuse this option, and return the shipment to the country of export. 

In either case, you must go to the local CBSA office to account for the goods. You will need to provide the courier's name, the unique shipment identifier number, and an invoice from the exporter that clearly gives both a description of the goods and the value. When you have paid the applicable duties and/or taxes to the CBSA, you will be given a receipt indicating that the goods have been accounted for. The courier company must have a copy of this receipt before they release the goods. 

A list of CBSA inland offices can be found on our Web site at: 
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/listing/indexpages/indextype32-e.html 

Should you require additional assistance with your inquiry, we recommend that you contact the Border Information Service (BIS). You can access the BIS line free of charge throughout Canada by calling 1-800-461-9999. If you are calling from outside Canada, you can access the BIS line by calling either 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064 (long-distance charges will apply). If you call during regular business hours (8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Monday to Friday, except holidays), you can speak to an officer by pressing “0” after you have made a selection of one of the 4 menu options. 

Thank you for contacting the Canada Border Services Agency. *

There you have it. I am officially beat. I'll wait a week or so and see what happens next. My hunch is that the package is already on its way back.

In future, I also intend to avoid UPS for even domestic work.

hboy43


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

Do you have to clear it yourself or can someone clear it in your name?

Maybe there is a CMF member near the office.


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

hboy43 said:


> Hi:
> 
> 
> There you have it. I am officially beat. I'll wait a week or so and see what happens next. My hunch is that the package is already on its way back.
> ...


Just pay it, and be done with it. Every time after this, you will be sure to use usps. We have all payed the ups fee once and learned.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Homerhomer said:


> Sampson, I am not sure what are you trying to prove, the example that hboy is talking about is not unique, because of most imported items are of fairly low value.
> From the consumer point of view it is usually much cheaper to purchase if the sender is using USPS, there are some US vendors that don't ship via USPS, but you know upfront what your total will be upon checkout because they collect all fees and taxes upon purchase.
> If a vendor doesn't offer either of the two options quite often you will end up paying more than if you were to purchase locally (on top of it difficulties with returns and so on).
> I quite frankly don't give a damn about their fixed cost, I want to pay as little as possible for the item, and quite often it doesn't make sense to purchase if broker fees are so high.
> Not sure what you are amazed about.


I'm not trying to prove anything. It's unique because the cost of the brokerage is typically fixed and it is more painfully on the consumer to pay the same fixed brokerage fee on a low ticket item.

What I'm surprise about are all the other posters, neither referring to the OP or yourself that avoid US vendors that only ship UPS.

You claim that you will end up paying more than purchasing locally, this is not true, it depends on what you are buying. There are still many items that are 20% more expensive locally than in the US, camera equipment is often one example. Paying $100 brokerage on a $2000 camera is still less than paying $2400 locally.

Again, the surprise is that people state they avoid vendors that ship only UPS. Those vendors could also be selling at much cheaper so if you avoid it, you end up making a decision to pay more. OF course, this thread is going to attract a very biased crowd that have been stung by those fees. I've paid them myself and been unhappy each time I have to cough up more money, but I still go to those vendors because the bottom line is lower.

The only way is to pressure the vendor to adopt a different service, but they have to be doing enough business with Canadians to make their efforts worthwhile.


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

Sampson- For some, saving 100-200$ is not worth the aggravation. As I stated earlier, for me, using UPS means I need to waste a few hours of my time + drive to a remote location.

I think the point is moot though as most items, you can buy at other stores that do ship with USPS (or at least offer it as an option). So you get the savings and you don't have the aggravation!:biggrin::encouragement:


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Sampson said:


> What I'm surprise about are all the other posters, neither referring to the OP or yourself that avoid US vendors that only ship UPS.
> 
> You claim that you will end up paying more than purchasing locally, this is not true, it depends on what you are buying. There are still many items that are 20% more expensive locally than in the US, camera equipment is often one example. Paying $100 brokerage on a $2000 camera is still less than paying $2400 locally.
> 
> .


To be fair what I said was (and this time I am speaking only for myself ;-):



Homerhomer said:


> Actually you should avoid anything other than USPS, unless the place you shop has all in price upon checkout (hst, duties, broker fee and freight), some do.
> If a company doesn't want to use USPS, or there is no all in price I don't order.
> 
> .


Photography equipment is a perfect example, BHPhoto is shipping via UPS, but they have all in price so you exactly know how much you will pay without any surprises, I have purchased from them on many occassions and have saved a bundle in comparison to shopping locally.

Apart from that for just about any item I wanted to buy that is cheaper in US, if one vendor doesn't use USPS I can always find another one that does, and my overall cost is cheaper than if I were to ship via UPS, I would say that will apply to 90% of what you shop for.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I've been buying just about everything online for over 10 years, and nothing is new with this UPS brokerage fee. In the old days, I used to try to explain to those who didn't offer a USPS option for Canadians (most Americans prefer UPS) and many were not aware of how UPS was screwing over Canadians with this fee

Nowadays, I don't bother anymore because if they haven't figured it out by now they either don't care about Canadian's business or are ignorant/careless of what's going on or are new and inexperienced and regardless not worth my time or money. If I don't see an option for USPS I move along, because I prefer USPS for taxes and delivery as well besides the brokerage fee. I've rarely come across an item I couldn't find somewhere online for just as cheap and shipped via USPS. In one case, there was a product that you could only exclusively and I tried to explain it to them but it turns out they are notoriously snobbish as they have no competition in their market. They refused to ship to me by USPS because "UPS comes to them to pick up the parcels" so basically they were too lazy to go to the post office

It's not like the stores are getting any kickback from UPS for this scam that I know of, UPS is just taking advantage of all the newbie online shoppers. I've seen many sites with warnings to Canadians why they don't ship UPS. This is a mark of a good online retailer, whereas no option for USPS is the opposite


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Here's an example from an Amazon retailer... they carry a niche audio product but are total a-holes about shipping

Canadian Customers

* ALL ORDERS, INCLUDING EXCHANGES AND RETURNS WILL BE SHIPPED VIA UPS AND WILL INCUR ALL DUTIES, TAXES AND BROKERAGE FEES APPLICABLE. THERE IS NO ALTERNATE SHIPPING METHOD AVAILABLE, AND BY SUBMITTING YOUR ORDER YOU HAVE AGREED TO THESE TERMS, CONDITIONS AND ALL ASSOCIATED FEES. PLEASE DO NOT INCLUDE A NOTE REQUESTING ANY SHIPPING METHOD OTHER THAN UPS AS WE WILL BE UNABLE TO HONOR THIS REQUEST. 
* Duties are imposed by the receiving country, independent of our Company. We are not responsible and have no way of knowing what the duty charge will be. BROKERAGE FEES ARE IMPOSED AND COLLECTED BY UPS AND ONCE SHIPPED, YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO FORWARD THIS BROKERAGE FEE DIRECTLY TO UPS.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

ddkay said:


> We are not responsible *and have no way of knowing *what the duty charge will be. BROKERAGE FEES ARE IMPOSED AND COLLECTED BY UPS AND ONCE SHIPPED, YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO FORWARD THIS BROKERAGE FEE DIRECTLY TO UPS.


Which is total BS, the businesses that care about Canadian customers found a way to know, list it upon checkout, or offer alternative shipping.
I am not surprised that some businesess would only do UPS, it may be cheaper for them than dealing with USPS, however if they don't take the effort to offer reasonable solution I will find someone who does.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm pretty sure if you go to the Canadian customs website you can find out what you'll pay for duty fees. Some things, like clothing, have whopping duty charges, other things have no duty. I think sewing machines have no duty :encouragement:. With NAFTA I should add.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Guigz said:


> Also your example is not as clear cut as it usually is in real life. It is more a question of: would you rather pay *1200$ all inclusive by using USPS* or 1150$ or maybe 1300$ by using UPS. UPS just decides randomly (or so it appears) that it will charge you a bunch of money to clear something.


Generally, it's the UPS customs clearance charges that are excessive for small shipments. I bought a SS kitchen sink this year that I couldn't find in my local stores or Home-Depot online. I found it at one
on-line plumbing supply in the US, but they only delivered by UPS, so that was it. Found it in another
on-line plumbing site, a few dollars cheaper, and they did ship it to me by USPS/CP. It was delivered
right to my door, for just a $8 clearance fee, a small shipping fee, and the taxes. 



> Besides even if UPS was cheaper, they usually have only one depot/store per city where you can pick up your shipments and this place is usually in the industrial side of the city where it is very inconvenient to pick up your stuff


This I found out after they tried to deliver twice while I was at work. I had to go drive the east end of the city (about 25km)
to pickup up my package and pay the excessive custom clearance charges, as well as taxes.



> Comparatively, Can Post has several pickup locations in my neighboorhood, one of which is within walkable distance from my house.


CP will only try to deliver the package once, but at least they leave a card in the mailbox at the most convenient location for me, so I find their service is very satisfactory and cheap as far as clearance charges. 

However, UPS are probably ok, for large heavy items that the post office won't take, if you are shipping within Canada..or Purolator.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I don't order anything from the U.S. without requesting that it be shipped via USPS.

If the selling won't do this, then please cancel my order. Period.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

B&H is a good example, but one where they responded to clients. They didn't always ship using alternative methods, and photographic equipment in Canada has only recently come down in price to reflect the strength of the dollar.

I fully accepted brokerage fees of 'unknown' amounts to take advantage of their superior pricing.

The UPS service is overpriced, I agree with this, but they do offer a service, and in some ways, I believe it is up to the consumer to understand what they are getting into.

Most companies are responding to complaints from Canadians as evidenced by the bold disclaimers from the online retailer, and many are adopting USPS as an option, but in the end caveat emptor.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I had a problem with Purolater. They were to ship a free replacement PVR from Shaw in Mississauga. Purolater refused to deliver it saying my address was not in their system. I told them the correct address. They said no it is not in their system. I asked where they got their info. They said Canada Post. I said that we do receive mail all the time.

We had to pick up the PVR from a distribution location, then return the old one to the same location. Pure bullshit!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

here is a related concept that might evolve to alleviate the problem, especially now that google has bought BufferBox. I can see BB taking off with kiosks in major cities, a bit like the Bixi Bike concept.

https://www.bufferbox.com/

a problem with canada post parcel delivery, at least in my area, is that the posties won't touch the parcels. All they will do is leave a postcard stating that a parcel will be available at a nearby canada post depot the following day.

at a canada post depot, it's necessary to stand in line, wait, furnish ID, wait for postal assistant to go get parcel out of storage room, etc.

bufferbox is the same idea, but speeded up because most steps are done online.

still, a human delivery person has to physically stick the delivered parcel into a bufferbox compartment at the designated BB location, though. Using the Bixi bike analogy, i'm wondering what a driver/delivery person does when he finds that all compartments at a designated bufferbox kiosk are already full. This is like riding your Bixi bike to your destination but finding that the bike parking rack there is already full.

a bixi bike rider can usually find a nearby bixi location that has parking space still open. So a BufferBox network might work in dense urban areas that could support a network of closely-located BB kiosks.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Damn those men in stripey clothing stealing parcels!

DHL uses electronic boxes like this in Germany. I can get instant tracking notifications from the DHL app or email, same as Canada Post I believe. The convenience of the electronic box is it's opened 24/7 and location, but they still waste the time/effort going to my house when it could just go straight to the box in the first place like that bufferbox


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mode i knew you'd speak up & tell us about the latest euro appy twist on this tale :biggrin:

isn't DHL uber-expensive though ? i believe in north america & for inter-continental it's expensive but usually the best deal in terms of shipping overseas fast & secure.

but i don't think regular retail buyers would want to pay DHL shipping when cheaper post office rates will do.
.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

DHL in Germany is like Canada Post in Canada though, the de facto parcel shipping for the average retail shopper. I used DHL once in Canada and it was a nightmare, they handed the parcels off to Loomis Express who somehow didn't even know how to look up an address. Those yaks would have been faster

I wouldn't expect DHL to set up their electric boxes in Canada, but why wouldn't Canada Post do it instead of this 3rd party bufferbox? Canada Post should be moving ahead to profit from this online shopping market, not harassing me to use that pointless ePost thing


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Well, I called UPS and complained, but in the end I paid the ransom. There wasn't a practical alternative, and as the internet is full of complaints about this going back decades, there isn't anything realistic to be accomplished by being principled. Best case, if the package went back to the supplier, and they credited the full amount less shipping, and I reordered elsewhere and waited the 2 weeks, I would have saved a grand total of about $15. Worst case, my package would be considered abandoned at the border and I'd be out the full amount.

The UPS guy claimed that there is some kind of court process in play (for 13 years so far) due to USPS having an unfair advantage. I could find no reference to this on the web. He figures they are cheaper than non-USPS competitors, but could bring even better rates is the USPS unfair advantage could be overcome. All milk and honey stuff. Might all be true, but I have my doubts. I asked why a $200 package has a higher fee than $199, you know, what happened at that marginal dollar that caused a marginal $10 rise in cost (or whatever the number is). Didn't get an answer to that one other than blah blah blah.

Good possibility the real villain is the Federal Government. As there is duty on next to nothing these days with free trade, as a practical matter, all the brokerage is doing is forcing the collection of HST. Why can't CBSA set up a mechanism to pay online via credit card? The only way to beat the system is to clear it in yourself at one of the convenient 12 or so CBSA offices throughout this small country.

People have been complaining about this literally for decades. I first fell in this trap 15 or 20 years ago. I just don't order much from the States and the problem slipped my mind. I don't know why such simple things cannot be fixed. It is no wonder modern democracies can't get the hard stuff done.

Instead of wasting more time on UPS, yesterday I laid the groundwork with a potential marine parts supplier that currently ships only via UPS. I told him I have planned expenditures of $7000 to $15,000 on my new to me boat (figures VERY true, unfortunately), why he would lose at least part of my business, and suggested that perhaps he could consider shipping to Canadians once a week or once a month even with USPS. He didn't say yes and he didn't say no but was at least willing to engage in a conversation "send me a list of what you want".

hboy43


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

If USPS is,not an option own a web site, you can always phone and talk to a person. 9 out of 10 times after explaining the broker fees, they agree to ship USPS.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Sampson said:


> I'm truely amazed at how vehemently opposed to these fees people are. hboy's example is unique because I gather the value of the purchased item is not high, but the brokers cost will be somewhat fixed, in terms of paperwork required compared to a similar, but more expensive item.
> 
> Do people really go out of their way not to buy from vendors that use UPS? So would you pay net more just to avoid the service? If you have a choice, sure skip the big brown and talk with your $, but if you had to pay $100 in brokerage fees on a $1000 item vs. $1200 with no fee, would you avoid the broker?


I factor the shipping costs when I buy stuff. I won't reject them out of spite though. If they're the best price including UPS fees, I'll still buy and be happy about the deal.
If it's a $200 purchase, the $50 more that UPS costs may very well make them uncompetative.


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## Elbyron (Apr 3, 2009)

I can understand how people who get surprised by a UPS or Fedex brokerage fee would feel ripped off, but it really should just be a lesson learned and not a reason to boycott these companies. The next time you get something delivered across the border, you'll hopefully have learned about the hidden costs. Usually USPS is the best option because they hand over the parcel to Canada Post and don't do any customs clearance for you. The package does still go through customs clearance, and can potentially be opened, inspected, and taxed. When this happens, you will have to pay Canada Post for the duties, taxes, and a $5 fee imposed by Canada Border Services Agency. Personally, I find that less than 10% of my USPS deliveries have this happen though.

UPS is certainly taking advantage of Canadians who are unaware of their polices, but I have some suggestions on how you can avoid their traps:

1) When choosing shipping options, look for one of these: UPS Worldwide Express Plus, UPS Worldwide Express, UPS Worldwide Express Saver, and UPS Worldwide Expedited. 
All of these services include free customs clearance. If you choose the "Standard" shipping, also referred to as "ground", the clearance fees they charge will often end up making it more expensive than the express options. Check here for up-to-date rates for customs clearance.

Even if you've chosen an express option, and your item has no applicable duties, you still have to pay HST/GST on it. UPS will "post a bond" and advance the funds to Canada Border Services Agency, and then charge you a bond fee for this service. On top of this, they'll add a $4.25 cash-on-delivery fee when they come to collect at your door. But there is a solution:

2) Prepay the taxes and duties. As soon as UPS picks up the package from the shipper and registers it in their system, you can call 1-800-PICK-UPS and tell them you want to pre-pay the taxes and duties. Give them the tracking number (which hopefully the seller sent you), or perhaps they can use other info to locate the item. Give them a credit card number to charge it to, and that's it! No bond fee, no COD fee, no surprises. I've done this several times before and it works perfectly.


Recently I ordered a GoPro HERO3 for which Fedex was my only shipping option (USPS won't deliver lithium batteries anymore). The ground shipping was only $15, and I was worried there could be similar hidden fees, so I called Fedex to find out. They said that their clearance fees, if any, are always paid by the shipper not the recipient. Taxes and duties however will still be charged upon delivery, and like UPS, they will charge you an "advancement" fee if you do not pre-pay. However, it's not quite as simple as a phone call; you must setup a free Fedex account and link a credit card to it. If the shipper can put that account number on the bill of lading, then you're all set. But GoPro said they couldn't do that. So I called Fedex after they had picked up the package, and asked if I could add the account number. I was told it was too late to change it, but that they could add a note with the account #, and also I can give the driver the account # when he arrives. The driver tried to charge me the taxes plus $10, but I just gave him the account # and he said that was fine. The credit card was charged only for the amount of the taxes with no other fee.

Hope this information helps anyone who is considering a U.S. based seller who doesn't offer USPS!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Elbyron said:


> Hope this information helps anyone who is considering a U.S. based seller who doesn't offer USPS!


Thanks. That will really help with US vendors who offer no USPS option.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I ordered something from ToysRus.com that ToysRUs in Canada does not carry (Regular Show figurines, yeah-ah!) I spent $40. They charged me $8 for shipping, including any and all brokerage fees. HST was charged separately. I ordered last week and the parcel came last night (Sunday!). I was really pleased and would not hesitate to order from ToysRUs in the U.S. again.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Good to know MGal.
Most US vendors who have Canadian counterparts don't seem to want to ship to Canada, even if they carry unique products. toys 'r us does seem very Canada friendly. We once used a CAD based gift card in the US, where they took the value at par, despite me knowing it was off by $0.05-$0.10 at that time.


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## Pop Alexandra (May 8, 2018)

MoneyGal said:


> I ordered something from ToysRus.com that ToysRUs in Canada does not carry (Regular Show figurines, yeah-ah!) I spent $40. They charged me $8 for shipping, including any and all brokerage fees. HST was charged separately. I ordered last week and the parcel came last night (Sunday!). I was really pleased and would not hesitate to order from ToysRUs in the U.S. again.


Same here... their shipping services they provide are very professionals.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Isn't ToyRus going bankrupt? Or at closing down all it's US stores? 

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...-r-us-canada-as-parent-company-struggles.html

I had not read Elbyrons post above. It is a good one and I believe still valid. Last year, I bought a major item (several thousand $$) from China. It was quite large and airshipped to me by Fedex. I opened a Fedex account and had shipper add my account to shipping documents. No clearance fees.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Pop Alexandra is 'suspicious' responding to a 2012 thread.......


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