# Cold and flu season



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I wonder if it's just the circle of people I know in western Canada, mostly Manitoba, but the flu (or bad colds) seem to be hitting people harder this year than last year. Are you seeing this as well?

I've had one close relative have to go to a walk-in clinic due to a particularly bad flu & complications (cough & respiratory trouble), but also have several friends (in their 30s) out sick, which is a bit unusual. Plus at least one of their parents (in their 60s/70s) end up in hospital due to flu & chest trouble.

Myself, I'm taking 500 mg vitamin C daily, 1000 to 2000 IU vitamin D (in liquid softgel form) and occasional ColdFX. And I've really stepped up the hand-washing, and am very careful about touching my nose/face or rubbing my eyes, which I think is a common way to catch these bugs.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I had a hell of a cold or flu in October, the worst I have had in 20 years. It started a couple of days after I went to the hospital for a CAT scan. I asked my specialist if there was a bad cold or flu going around the hospital, he said no. I have an idea it was caused by the CAT scan since it did not feel like a regular cold and did not respond to any of the remedies I tried. Usually I can kick a cold in 3 or 4 days at the most, this time nothing. Which makes me think it was not a virus. It did not last the usual week or 10 days, it hung on for over a month.

I went back for another CAT scan a couple of weeks ago and same thing happened again but milder, more like convalescing from the flu. But then again, not like the flu. Again the doctors denied that a CAT scan could have such an effect.

Maybe I'm just unlucky but I think CAT scans affect me adversely even though I know they are not supposed to.

Incidentaly for the last few years I have had good luck killing off infections with a Bob Beck electromagnetic pulser. Most can be dealt with in 5 or 10 minutes, some need a second or third treatment. Have used it on cuts and scrapes, toothache, inner ear infection, colds and earaches. Never had it fail except the CAT scan cold on which it had no effect at all.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Our emergency rooms are full of people with respiratory problems due to a cold/flu that ends up as bronchitis.

I have been having a difficult time at night. Laying down seems to make it a lot worse. We bought a room humidifier and I have some lozenges to soothe a raspy throat.

Some recommend sleeping elevated or even in a recliner, so the mucus buildup flows out the nose instead of down the throat creating an endless loop of coughing and sore throats.

Bronchitis is prevalent these days, so keep a cautious watch on anyone with respiratory problems or young children.

As far as avoiding a cold or flu, I doubt there is any sure way to avoid it. If there was a magic solution we wouldn't be getting all these ailments every year.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Guess CMFrs haven't read that the H1N1 has returned more prominently this season. But affecting children mostly. Not sure why the middle-age group is getting hit worst this season though.

*Another tough flu season hits Canada, affecting children harder*

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-another-tough-flu-season-hits-canada-affecting-children-harder/



> Canadian pediatric hospitals are seeing a surge in flu-related admissions as H1N1 re-emerges as the dominant strain of influenza this season.
> 
> The number of children admitted to hospital for the viral illness so far this season is more than twice as high as it was at this time last year, and more than three times as high as it was at this point in the 2016-2017 flu season, according to the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC.)
> 
> ...


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

do you all get the flu vaccine shot? i do.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Ouch, yes! Doc's recommendation for asthmatic people.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

we have norovirus on vancouver island at the present time, it is up island and i hope will stay up island

i am absolutely washing my hands and using sanitizer whenever i have the opportunity, i also wash my the tip of nose because i read that you can catch the virus there before it becomes active sometimes

like you james i try not to touch my face with my fingers when i am out but that's hard to do rigorously

i get the flu shot also but in the end i think its the luck of the draw, some years are good and some are bad for me


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

The only people I know this year who got the flu are peoploe who got a flu shot. I'm still not convinced such shots are benificial, except for the company who sells them. I searched for evidence of efficacy and found none. Need a good double blind study before they will convince me. 

Reportedly one way to reduce odds of flu or cold is fresh air, due to the fact the virus is airborne. When I'm driving an infected person who is coughing and hacking I have the dash fresh air flow aimed at my face and I don't hang around with them in poorly ventilated rooms. its counter intuitive in cold weather, but one should have a window open while visiting the infected.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I am always amazed at how many people don't get a flu shot every year. It's free, you walk in to a pharmacy and get it in a few minutes. Even that seems to a case of 'I can't be bothered' though for many people.

I would say to each his own, it's your health and life you are playing with but the fact is that often, they are passing it on to others when they get the flu, so it isn't just confined to themselves.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Our emergency rooms are full of people with respiratory problems due to a cold/flu that ends up as bronchitis.
> 
> I have been having a difficult time at night. Laying down seems to make it a lot worse. We bought a room humidifier and I have some lozenges to soothe a raspy throat.
> 
> ...


Wow, yes this is exactly what's been happening in my family. My mom ended up with bronchitis during her cold, and it's been rough. Very similar to what you describe. She gets a lot of mucous & phlegm, with a very hard time sleeping at night due to a persistent cough, especially when she's laying down. The problem seems to be the mucus buildup.

Have you tried a mucus loosener containing guaifenesin? Readily available, worth it if you haven't tried it yet.


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm an ICU physician. On service currently, 14 bed ICU. Of my 13 mechanically ventilated patients, 6 have influenza A pneumonia or another illness that was triggered by their influenza infection (COPD exacerbation). One is in her 80s, the others range from 40 to 65. None of them were vaccinated.

Anyone looking for the best evidence in support of influenza vaccination should look at the latest Cochrane systematic reviews here: https://www.cochrane.org/news/featu...ws-assessing-effectiveness-influenza-vaccines
The data is most compelling for children and elderly patients, but there does seem to be some benefit for otherwise healthy adults as well.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

So far so good in my neck of the woods - Ontario. Seems to be less illness this year. "The say" that the vaccine had a better match this year.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I wonder if it's just the circle of people I know in western Canada, mostly Manitoba, but the flu (or bad colds) seem to be hitting people harder this year than last year. Are you seeing this as well?
> 
> I've had one close relative have to go to a walk-in clinic due to a particularly bad flu & complications (cough & respiratory trouble), but also have several friends (in their 30s) out sick, which is a bit unusual. Plus at least one of their parents (in their 60s/70s) end up in hospital due to flu & chest trouble.
> 
> Myself, I'm taking 500 mg vitamin C daily, 1000 to 2000 IU vitamin D (in liquid softgel form) and occasional ColdFX. And I've really stepped up the hand-washing, and am very careful about touching my nose/face or rubbing my eyes, which I think is a common way to catch these bugs.


Vitamin C is totally pointless if you eat anything resembling a balanced diet. Most people are getting several times RDI of Vit C. A medium red pepper has 2.5x the RDI of Vit C. 1 cup of broccoli is 1.1x RDI. ColdFx is clinically demonstrated (by their own research) to be pointless. You have to take daily doses for a decade to prevent one flu on average.

Vit D supplementation is a good idea, and handwashing is #1. Getting enough sleep & activity as well.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The benefits of ColdFX were obviously inflated, but it's a safe/harmless drug, and may have a slight positive effect (it does contain a ginseng extract).

http://fortune.com/2016/02/01/cold-fx/



> The 2004 study, conducted by Dr. Gerry Predy who currently serves as Alberta’s senior medical officer of health, showed that Cold-FX doesn’t treat cold or flu symptoms, *though it did work as a preventative measure*. It found that if a person took the supplement every day for two or more months, it reduced the frequency and intensity of respiratory illnesses.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1949084/ gives details of clinical study and the reported decrease in colds, but points out that the result may not be meaningful (inconclusive).

I still use it. Like vitamin C, I consider it harmless and possibly slightly beneficial to me. Cost is about $20 a bottle over 2 months so about $0.33 per day to make myself feel better.



> handwashing is #1. Getting enough sleep & activity as well.


I agree these are the highest importance, though I would also add stress reduction. Sleep & physical activity help with that, anyway.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cheech10 said:


> I'm an ICU physician. On service currently, 14 bed ICU. Of my 13 mechanically ventilated patients, 6 have influenza A pneumonia or another illness that was triggered by their influenza infection (COPD exacerbation). One is in her 80s, the others range from 40 to 65. None of them were vaccinated.
> 
> Anyone looking for the best evidence in support of influenza vaccination should look at the latest Cochrane systematic reviews here: https://www.cochrane.org/news/featu...ws-assessing-effectiveness-influenza-vaccines
> The data is most compelling for children and elderly patients, but there does seem to be some benefit for otherwise healthy adults as well.


Thanks cheech. Wow, I hope you can post more often in this forum.

Relating to vaccination of healthy mid age adults, not seniors: that study you linked shows a decrease in flu instances, but I didn't see much mentioned about negative consequences or even long term risks of routine vaccination every year. What is the current thinking on broader (long term) effects on the body and immune system?

The studies described in this article seem to suggest there could be _higher_ vulnerability to the flu for people who get routine vaccinations:
https://www.statnews.com/2015/11/11/flu-shots-reduce-effectiveness/
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...-more-data-effects-consecutive-year-flu-shots

The article also says that proper research into this question cannot be conducted in the US (and I'm guessing Canada) due to public health recommendations that everyone gets vaccinated. I presume this means we don't have any long term studies that can answer this question.

I understand vaccinating older adults (excellent reward vs risk of vaccine), but I still wonder about vaccinations for *very healthy adults* age 20-50 (minor reward, but still some risk of vaccine). I am not doubting the short term benefit in the immediate year. I'm wondering about potential long term negative consequences, as a factor to consider when weighing reward vs risk.


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

The theory in the articles posted is that if the vaccine is similar from year to year, the body's response will be less robust in the subsequent year and offer less protection. Note that the articles posted compared flu infection rates for those vaccinated or not vaccinated in the previous year, but all the individuals were vaccinated in the current year (eg. those vaccinated in 2015 and 2014 had slightly higher infection rates in 2015 than those vaccinated in 2015 but not in 2014; but all had lower infection rates than those not vaccinated in 2014). This may or may not hold true for a single year, but the observational data is pretty clear that over multiple years the risk of influenza infection will be lower in aggregate for an annually vaccinated individual than an intermittently vaccinated one.

There is no convincing evidence of long term harm from flu vaccination. There was a signal that Guillain-Barre Syndrome might be very weakly associated with vaccination, but it was found that influenza vaccination was even more strongly associated with GBS than the vaccine was.

Even very healthy adults can get severe disease from the flu. I've personally seen 2 healthy 30 year olds die of acute respiratory distress syndrome from the flu, and I've only been practicing 7 years. I know they're just anecdotes, but they were terrible experiences for me, and I've been consistently vaccinated annually ever since then.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for the clarifications on that. That's horrible regarding the healthy 30 yo's, must be very jarring (and shocking) to see an otherwise healthy adult die like that.

It sounds like regular, annual flu vaccinations are worthwhile (nothing to cause hesitations) even if someone is perfectly healthy and in those middle years. If you don't mind me asking, are you somewhat close to your 30s or 40s? I'm in my late 30s and get the flu shot almost every year.



cheech10 said:


> There is no convincing evidence of long term harm from flu vaccination. There was a signal that Guillain-Barre Syndrome might be very weakly associated with vaccination, but it was found that influenza vaccination was even more strongly associated with GBS than the vaccine was.


In the above, did you mean to say that influenza (the actual infection) is more strongly associated with GBS than the vaccine?


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm in my late 30s.

Yes, influenza infection has a stronger correlation with GBS than influenza vaccination does. There's epidemiologic data for this as well. The year that the vaccine-GBS concern came out, vaccination rates dropped, influenza infection rates increased, and GBS rates increased.


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