# Tax on dividends on US stocks



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Paul Gardner said today on BNN:
"Tax implication on large-cap US dividend stocks? 1st of all, you have to deal with the Cdn$ and if it gets stronger your investment will get weaker. There is a US 15% withholding tax on your dividends even if it’s in an RRSP, which you don't get back. This is a small negative of the big puzzle."

My understanding that there is no withholding tax on US stocks if you hold it in RRSP... Don't I get something...?


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## loonieca (Dec 6, 2011)

gibor said:


> Paul Gardner said today on BNN:
> "Tax implication on large-cap US dividend stocks? 1st of all, you have to deal with the Cdn$ and if it gets stronger your investment will get weaker. There is a US 15% withholding tax on your dividends even if it’s in an RRSP, which you don't get back. This is a small negative of the big puzzle."
> 
> My understanding that there is no withholding tax on US stocks if you hold it in RRSP... Don't I get something...?


You are right. Tax holdings in RRSP will not be subject to the withholding tax. However, TFSA and RESP are not exempted.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

gibor said:


> My understanding that there is no withholding tax on US stocks if you hold it in RRSP... Don't I get something...?


You are correct. In an RRSP, there is no withholding tax. Now TFSAs are different, the US does withhold tax on dividends in those accounts.

http://blog.taxresource.ca/tfsa-non-resident-withholding-taxes/


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## Uranium101 (Nov 18, 2011)

don't listen to those self proclaimed professionals, not a lot of them are worth listening to.

Here is how it works from personal experiences:
US Companies trading on the American Exchanges (NASDAQ, NYSE, AMEX etc..) do not have withholding taxes if you placed them in your RRSP. There is 15% withholding tax in other accounts including TFSA and RESP. If you didn't fill out the W8BEN, you might be subjected to 30% withholding tax. In registered accounts other than RRSP, you will never be able to get those dividends back.

Another thing he got wrong is that Canadian companies trading on NYSE do not subject to withholding tax whatsoever in whatever account type you want. He said that you will get your taxes withheld.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

One other point, If I remember correctly, is that there is a withholding tax on ADRs trading on the us exchanges, even within your RRSP. It was a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure, maybe someone else can comment on that?

The stock I once owned was ABB (which is a swiss company) and it traded as an ADR on one of the US Exchanges.


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## cardhu (May 26, 2009)

Xoron said:


> there is a withholding tax on ADRs trading on the us exchanges, even within your RRSP.


There shouldn’t be any US withholding, because the IRS withholding rules apply to US-sourced income, which ADR dividends are not ... however, there could be withholdings by whichever country the company is based in ... if there are any tax-treaty provisions that come into play, the relevant treaty would be the one between the company’s home country and the US. Such withholdings are unrecoverable in an RRSP (or any other registered account, for that matter) 



U101 said:


> Another thing he got wrong is that Canadian companies trading on NYSE do not subject to withholding tax whatsoever in whatever account type you want. He said that you will get your taxes withheld.


You're right, there shouldn't be any withholding, but that's not necessarily how brokers and their transfer agents deal with it ... I’ve had incorrect withholdings taken, at Interactive Brokers, for exactly that reason (among others) ... IB’s policy on the matter is that they don’t care.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

cardhu said:


> There shouldn’t be any US withholding, because the IRS withholding rules apply to US-sourced income, which ADR dividends are not ... however, there could be withholdings by whichever country the company is based in ...


I checked back through my old statements and it wasn't an ADR that had the withholding tax. It was another stock that I held at the same time based in Puerto Rico, but traded on the NASDAQ. I did call my brokerage about the withholding tax, but there was nothing they could do about it.

Sorry if I caused any confusion


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I've seen also on TV (BNN Market Call) this guy talking about this tax and host kinda confirmed it.....
It's very wierd...

From what I know, if you holding US listed stock in RRSP/LIRA/RRIF , taxable only dividends from ADR, LP and maybe US REIT


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## cardhu (May 26, 2009)

Xoron said:


> it wasn't an ADR that had the withholding tax. It was another stock that I held at the same time based in Puerto Rico, but traded on the NASDAQ


Was it a Puerto Rico withholding, or a US withholding? ... 10% or 15% 




gibor said:


> if you holding US listed stock in RRSP/LIRA/RRIF ...


Where its listed doesn’t matter ... what matters is where its domiciled.
A Canadian company listed in the US is still a Canadian company.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

cardhu said:


> Was it a Puerto Rico withholding, or a US withholding? ... 10% or 15%


I was paid the DIV as normal, then the next line was the withholding tax. It was 10%, and it was just listed on my statement as "Non-Res Tax Withheld". 


I'm guessing it was a PR tax vs a US tax.


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## nomad (Apr 7, 2010)

But even if taxes are withheld, can't I claim a foreign tax credit with CRA for this?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

nomad said:


> But even if taxes are withheld, can't I claim a foreign tax credit with CRA for this?


Only on Cash account


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## cardhu (May 26, 2009)

xoron said:


> I'm guessing it was a PR tax vs a US tax.


Probably ... PR’s non-resident withholding is 10%, vs 15% for US (if you’ve filed your W8-BEN) ... a legitimate and correct withholding, by the sounds of it ... although PR is a US "territory" (or whatever they call it), they are apparently a separate tax jurisdiction. 



nomad said:


> But even if taxes are withheld, can't I claim a foreign tax credit with CRA for this?


Not in an RRSP (or RRIF, or TFSA, or RDSP, or RESP, etc.)


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## Banalanal (Mar 28, 2011)

Just so I'm clear. If I hold a U.S. dividend stock not in an RRSP, I will be taxed twice. A 15% U.S. based withholding tax, and then the CDN taxation rate once I declare my dividends received when I file my taxes, correct? That would be one fundamental disadvantage when investing in the U.S.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Banalanal said:


> Just so I'm clear. If I hold a U.S. dividend stock not in an RRSP, I will be taxed twice. A 15% U.S. based withholding tax, and then the CDN taxation rate once I declare my dividends received when I file my taxes, correct? That would be one fundamental disadvantage when investing in the U.S.


You would be eligible for a foreign tax credit in non registered (cash) accounts. The intent is that you would not be double taxed but you would not get the preferential tax rate afforded Canadian sourced dividends. In Alberta you would pay max 39% versus dividends at max 18%.


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## Banalanal (Mar 28, 2011)

Ah, thanks. So you are still at a fundamental disadvantage when investing in U.S. stocks, all things being equal. (Of course company performance or exchange rates could make up for that).


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Banalanal said:


> Ah, thanks. So you are still at a fundamental disadvantage when investing in U.S. stocks, all things being equal. (Of course company performance or exchange rates could make up for that).


Agree. Also would have currency risk. That is why I only invest in Canadian equities.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I have a related question - Does a CDN company, traded on the US exchange, still gets preferential tax treatment in all forms of account (RRSP/TFSA/cash), just like it was purchased on the TSX? Or is there a catch?

And the follow up question, the reason I asked the first question, is: Are options traded on the CDN domiciled US listed taxed the same as a canadian option?

Finally, if the above answers are no and yes - If a CDN company is purchased on the TSX, can you sell calls on the US exchange equivalent and still be "covered"?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

peterk said:


> I have a related question - Does a CDN company, traded on the US exchange, still gets preferential tax treatment in all forms of account (RRSP/TFSA/cash), just like it was purchased on the TSX?


tricky question! because there are no tax treatments in rrsp or tfsa, right? the only thing that will happen is that the canadian dividend tax credits will be lost in registered accounts ... however a lifetime of compounding tax-free in rrsp should offset the final rrif blow when withdrawals will be taxed 100%.

re a cash or margin account, ie a non-registered account: the bank-owned brokers will generate accurate T5s for eligible dividends for all canadian companies held in USD accounts. I'm not sure about the small boutique shops since one hears uneasy remarks about their software capabilities in details like these.

when you go to sell such a stock (canadian stock held in USD account) you will be able to choose currency in which you wish to sell it. Choice would depend upon whether you do or do not need USD at time of sale. However, remember to give your broker the usual 3 days to journal stock into the correct currency account if necessary.




> Are options traded on the CDN domiciled US listed taxed the same as a canadian option?


yes, options should be taxed as capital gains/losses. Just remember to close out all positions. Canada & all provinces tax exchange-traded capital gains on a global basis so gains can be taken anywhere.

keep in mind that a US option means possible exercise in USD, therefore a currency play is involved for all canadian option players who go to US markets.




> If a CDN company is purchased on the TSX, can you sell calls on the US exchange equivalent and still be "covered"?


for margin interest calculation purposes - what the broker will charge you on margin - the answer is no, US options are not considered covered by most broker systems even though the underlying stocks are held close by in canadian account.



could i make a suggestion? Keep your stock strictly in the currency in which it pays a dividend. Because otherwise (my favourite rant) the broker is going to charge you a hidden FX fee on the dividend. Yes there are at least 19 prominent canadian large caps that pay their dividends strictly in USD.

then sell your options in US markets if you want. Keep in mind that if any assignment occurs in US option markets while stock is being held long in canadian account, you will probably have to phone the broker to get the stock journalled over to cover.

perhaps another suggestion? cross-trading options is tricky & if i am not mistaken you are a beginner, peterk (in fact i thought recently you said it would be a year or more before u would begin option trading each

so imho it would be an excellent idea to start out with just one stock bought in CAD & held long in CAD or USD account. Then sell its calls in US markets - if call-selling is what you wish to do - & then observe all details carefully as an educational exercise. Yea that's *one* stock plus observe *all.*


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

"...don't listen to those self proclaimed professionals, not a lot of them are worth listening to."

True, they often make mistakes.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

My Own Advisor said:


> "...don't listen to those self proclaimed professionals, not a lot of them are worth listening to."
> 
> True, they often make mistakes.


do u think u might be in the wrong thread?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Nope, just responding to Uranium 101 comments...from, oh, 2011


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

loonieca said:


> You are right. Tax holdings in RRSP will not be subject to the withholding tax. However, TFSA and RESP are not exempted.


You can add to the list Canadian ETFs that hold US domiciled ETFs as an example of withholding taxes being charges.
On first look, the Canadian ETF would suggest there won't be withholding taxes but a closer look says otherwise.
http://www.canadiancapitalist.com/h...fect-the-choice-of-international-investments/
http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/10/18/are-us-listed-etfs-really-cheaper/


Cheers


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Thanks for the excellent detail as usual HP! 



humble_pie said:


> tricky question! because there are no tax treatments in rrsp or tfsa, right? the only thing that will happen is that the canadian dividend tax credits will be lost in registered accounts


So, for example, if I purchase the US listed TD instead of the canadian list TD, in my RRSP, there will be an actual loss due to the dividend tax credit not applying?




> Keep your stock strictly in the currency in which it pays a dividend. Because otherwise (my favourite rant) the broker is going to charge you a hidden FX fee on the dividend. Yes there are at least 19 prominent canadian large caps that pay their dividends strictly in USD.


If I can select the "keep currency in the form it arrives" option with my broker (questrade) does this become a non-issue, or is there something more I'm missing?



> if i am not mistaken you are a beginner, peterk (in fact i thought recently you said it would be a year or more before u would begin option trading each


Indeed! What I'm trying to determine is: if I intend to sell covered calls in the future, on Canadian companies, then should I be building up those positions on the TSX or NYSE? Considering that the US options market is much more substantial/liquid than the Canadian, and it would be foolish to trade Canadian options if the US equivalent exists (Correct?).

I just want to make sure I understand all the consequences of holding CDN companies on the US exchange, tax and options-wise.



> so imho it would be an excellent idea to start out with just one stock bought in CAD & held long in CAD or USD account. Then sell its calls in US markets - if call-selling is what you wish to do - & then observe all details carefully as an educational exercise. Yea that's *one* stock plus observe *all.*


I believe with Questrade I can hold US and CDN currencies simultaneous in an RRSP. (I know I can in my TFSA)


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

> So, for example, if I purchase the US listed TD instead of the canadian list TD, in my RRSP, there will be an actual loss due to the dividend tax credit not applying?


This is the only question in your post that I know the answer to.  There are no dividend tax credits on stocks held in the RRSP (because there are no taxes on the dividends there until withdrawal). It doesn't matter which exchange you hold it on, it's just an RRSP vs non-registered question.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

peterk it's common to hold canadian stocks long while selling their options in US markets.

remember that you can "move" your stocks from canadian to US side at any time. For example, you might buy & pay in canadian $$, then get stock journalled to US side of the account either right away or else later, at some future point in time.

i'll just take up one question at a time since i'm not able to write a marathon manual today! more later.

first detail, numero uno, is above.

numero due, about dividend tax credits, Spudd has already arrived with exactly the right answer! so there you go.

numero tre, re currency of dividend. A huge amount has been posted in cmf forum about this issue, don't you recall reading some of it? here's an article from Canadian Capitalist:

http://www.moneysense.ca/2012/08/22/canadian-stocks-paying-us-dollar-dividends/

bref there are at least 19 canadian companies that pay dividends in US $$ & brokers are charging hidden FX fees on these dividends when canadians hold these stocks in canadian accounts. Generally speaking you don't want to assist the brokers to rob you, so generally you would want to hold these stocks in the currency account of the dividend payment (to avoid the FX fees.)

how to find out? don't even think of relying on the broker. An excellent source is the TMX itself. It clearly displays the currency of every dividend & its information is up-to-date.

u have to do this research yourself ...

i'll come back later with a couple other points ... margin, etc ... but that's it for today's marathon ...

in the meantime perhaps you might consider naming one interlisted stock you believe you will buy? So we could use some concrete examples.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

The link you posted does not work, but perhaps this might:

http://www.moneysense.ca/2012/08/22/canadian-stocks-paying-us-dollar-dividends/


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

t.gal thank you so much for letting me know!

yes your link is the correct one. If you don't mind i'll go & repair my post with it, in case anybody else reads this stuff ...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> If you don't mind i'll go & repair my post with it, in case anybody else reads this stuff ...


The more times it's posted the better, as there are still too many folks clueless about the issue, but isn't there a sticky topic yet on this?

*Signed:*
Fashionista.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

So good example then from that list. I hold Barrick, in my TFSA, on the Canadian exchange. I have the "settle deposits in the currency it arrives" mode selected for my account (that's not the exact wording, but you get the gist). Regular USD American companies, which I hold in the same account, deposit their dividends in USD. I would assume that USD dividends from these sneaky CDN companies will just deposit as USD and I won't get hit with a currency exchange. Unless, does someone know otherwise?

I'm still not quite clear about how it all works with cash accounts, but I've got about 70k worth of registered space to use up before I have to deal with that. That'll be sometime late 2014.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

barrick will be a good test dividend for questrade. Would you be willing to be a guinea pig peterk? everyone would be grateful!

the ABX dividend of USD .20 goes X on 29 may/13 & will be paid on 17 june/13.

would you be able to check your account to see whether you receive (USD .20 x No. of ABX shares) or whether you receive a different amount, indicating that a currency conversion had taken place.

(note to everyone who holds barrick, whether in registered, cash or margin account: ABX is one of the canadian stocks that pay their dividends in USD only. Brokers will charge FX fees on dividends when ABX is held in a canadian account. To avoid the FX fee, investors can hold barrick shares in US account.)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

peterk said:


> ... I'm still not quite clear about how it all works with cash accounts, but I've got about 70k worth of registered space to use up before I have to deal with that.


this is good, because starting out as an options newcomer in registered accounts only means that you won't have to worry about margin so early in the option game. Regulations will limit your option trading to buy-writes (holding stock long while selling calls short) or else simple option buys or sells.

as i mentioned, it's a bit tricky to cross-trade stocks, options, currencies & margin positions, so restrictions that impose limits & controls in the early stages of options experience are actually a blessing in disguise imho!


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> The link you posted does not work, but perhaps this might:
> 
> http://www.moneysense.ca/2012/08/22/canadian-stocks-paying-us-dollar-dividends/


Thanks T.gal and Humble. That was a great article.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> barrick will be a good test dividend for questrade. Would you be willing to be a guinea pig peterk? everyone would be grateful!
> 
> the ABX dividend of USD .20 goes X on 29 may/13 & will be paid on 17 june/13.
> 
> ...


Haven't read all the posts, but I thought ABX declares in USD and pays out in either CAD, USD or AUD depending on where the shares are held.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

Further clarification. 

http://www.barrick.com/investors/share-price-and-dividend/default.aspx


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

atrpdocbiz,

the USD/CAD/AUD remark in the barrick language in your link applies only to registered shareholders. It does *not* apply to the vast majority of retail shareholders who, in canada, are holding their barrick shares in street form at brokers.

barrick shares held in street form in canadian dollar accounts at brokers will be subject to FX fees, charged by the brokers, upon USD dividends for those shares.

barrick should repair their dividend page that you've linked to, as it is misleading.

there are at least 18 other canadian companies whose USD dividends give rise to the same story of broker FX fees on the dividends.

of these 18, 17 are well-known large cap companies such as encana, thomson reuters, potash, agrium, methanex, magna, brookfield, goldcorp, etc. The full list can be found in CC's article in the moneysense link that toronto.gal & i provided upthread.

as for what barrick itself is saying about their USD/CAD/AUD dividends, this applies only to the tiny minority of shareholders whose shares are registered. I would imagine the barrick procedure for reg'd shareholders might be similar to what happens at potash when i checked recently (potash is another canadian company whose dividends are paid in USD only).

potash checks the number of registered shareholders with canadian residence addresses on each record date. It then uses the bank of canada noon rate on that record date to convert the dividend amounts from USD to CAD, bearing incidental costs of such conversion itself. It then delivers the CAD dividend amounts to the registered shareholders. Nothing could be more fair imho.

potash even has a provision that canadian registered shareholders may elect to receive their dividends in the original currency, which is USD!

i can hardly emphasize too much that the majority of potash shareholders who are street holders at brokers do *not* benefit from this equitable treatment. They are, instead, charged hidden FX fees by their brokers.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ... i can hardly emphasize too much that the majority of potash shareholders who are street holders at brokers do *not* benefit from this equitable treatment.
> 
> They are, instead, charged hidden FX fees by their brokers.


True.

Though I noticed when checking the web account activity in my cash account, the Potash dividend line that used to say "POTASH CORP OF SASK ... dividend ... $" now has a second line under the "POTASH" part that says "CONVERT TO CAD @ 0.99250". So the FX conversion is being reported now.

Maybe your comments are being heard and partially addressed? :biggrin:


I haven't had a chance to check if this detail is also reported on the monthly statement. So at this point - I'm not sure if it's a "web only" thing or not. I'll also keep an eye out for the reporting on Agrium and any others I happen to have. More as it happens .... :encouragement:


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> True.
> 
> Though I noticed when checking the web account activity in my cash account, the Potash dividend line that used to say "POTASH CORP OF SASK ... dividend ... $" now has a second line under the "POTASH" part that says "CONVERT TO CAD @ 0.99250". So the FX conversion is being reported now.
> 
> ...



eclectic u are right, at the big green at least the web accounts are showing the FX rate being charged for these dividends. Is this new? i don't know ... because i have my canadian-stocks-that-pay-USD-etc all in USD account, of course.

FX information is not on statements yet, though.

very bright team manager among the reps says why not configure the website so clients can key in which account they want to keep their stocks in themselves? imho this is a genius idea.

the big challenge is going to be the IIROC. Because the problem is all brokers across canada. No reason to expect any one broker to take the lead, although it might be that tdw is, in fact, taking the lead ...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> eclectic u are right, at the big green at least the web accounts are showing the FX rate being charged for these dividends.
> 
> Is this new? i don't know ... because i have my canadian-stocks-that-pay-USD-etc all in USD account, of course...


I'm not sure how new it is either. Though it is interesting that you've dealt with the issue but could so easily confirm what I was seeing though the web. 

Unless you had time to call someone & find out? :biggrin:




humble_pie said:


> very bright team manager among the reps says why not configure the website so clients can key in which account they want to keep their stocks in themselves?
> imho this is a genius idea...


Hmmm so is this a "future" feature or available now?


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

here's a mise à jour on FX fees charged by brokers on USD dividends paid out by 19 canadian companies. Please find below a list of these companies.

first, the good news. It seems that the companies are tentatively discussing with the transfer agents the distribution of their dividends in both CAD & USD. Presumably a shareholder would have to elect one currency or the other. 

no one has any details, so when such a plan might launch is unknown.

the big beneficiaries of this plan would be rrsp & other registered accounts that hold any of the 19 companies' shares at brokers that do not have USD rrsps. These are the majority of brokers. In fact, only bmo, roybank & questrade have no-fee USD rrsps, afaik.

it was not clear, from the vague rumours, that this new plan would extend beyond rrsps to cash & margin accounts.

now the bad news. A reliable source at td waterhouse has told me that the big green is *not* going to debut its long-awaited USD rrsp this summer & there is no schedule for its appearance. If asked, agents will confirm this new delay, but in somewhat opaque & guarded language.

canadian companies with USD dividends:

Encana (ECA)
Talisman Energy Inc. (TLM)
Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan (POT)
Agrium Inc. (AGU)
Methanex Corp. (MX)
Barrick Gold Corp. (ABX)
Goldcorp Inc. (G)
Kinross Gold Corp. (K)
Yamana Gold Inc. (YRI)
IAMGOLD Corp. (IMG)
Inmet Mining Corp. (IMN)
Thomson Reuters Corp. (TRI)
Magna International Inc. (MG)
Brookfield Office Properties Inc. (BPO)
Brookfield Asset Management Inc. (BAM.A)
Brookfield Infrastructure Partners LP (BIP.UN)
Brookfield Renewable Energy Partners LP (BEP.UN)
WaterFurnace Renewable Energy Inc. (WFI)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks humble_pie for this valuable information about the dividends and hidden FX charges. You're shedding light on an important issue!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> ... an important issue!


thanks james4. I have some other bits of news but later. It astonishes me that brokers have gotten away with so many $$ in FX fees on dividends from 19 big companies for so many years without anybody saying Boo.

this morning i was spot-checking a couple full service brokers i know well. How are they handling this issue? perhaps better than the discount brokers?

the first had no clue. The 2nd was pretty amazing. He's a successful broker at a well-known boutique shop with a hi net worth clientele. Racquetball, sailboats, horses, u know the drill.

he knew about some of the US dividends but brushed the situation off. My clients don't care about the 1.50% FX fee, he said, somewhat loftily.

:frog: i said.

here's one, he has 5000 shares of barrick that paid $1000 USD in march, the broker went on. The FX would have been $15. You don't think we'd waste our time talking about that, do you?

:eek2: i said. But what about the client's other companies with the same situation, times 4 dividends a year, over a holding of many years?

all not likely to cost the client much more than $1,000 a year, can't spend any time talking about that, said the broker.

:hopelessness: i thought.

all in all, i have found the discount broker representatives - at least the senior reps - to be noticeably more thoughtful & more conscientious about the FX issue than my nano-sample of 2 full service brokers.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Brokers play lots of games, even at the institutional level. Even mutual funds and pension funds don't get optimal FX treatment, because brokers will play tricks (e.g. translating shares across CA/US ledger at zero cost, while charging the pension fund FX fees for FX that never happened). And I know that one for a fact... think of the millions$ or even billions$ being taken from pension funds in that form.

There are many instances in which brokers charge you (and big clients) FX fees when in fact no buy/sell was ever made in FX markets.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> now the bad news. A reliable source at td waterhouse has told me that the big green is *not* going to debut its long-awaited USD rrsp this summer & there is no schedule for its appearance. If asked, agents will confirm this new delay, but in somewhat opaque & guarded language


gosh.
nobody interested in this?
maybe the agents are being too opaque each:
once more, with feeling
no. USD. rrsp. at. the. big. green. this. summer


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> gosh.
> nobody interested in this?


Maybe because, like some market news, this was already expected by many.
You yourself humble_pie have discussed so often how difficult it might be to build USD feature in registered accounts on the IBM mainframe platform used by TDW.
Those monolithic beasts are not easy to re-program, I believe.

Other brokerages such as Scotia I-Trade were telling their customers that a USD RRSP is "coming soon to a computer near you", but have very conveniently stopped saying so in the last year+.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

dear Harold i beg to disagree

tdw went out of its way in late 2012 to promise the wretched thing by late spring 2013

u saw many posts here in cmf forum throughout spring 2013, all hopefully reporting that the WT was on its way each:

only recently did the td nobs tell the frontline reps that the campaign has run into glitches again so all is now off the radar

PS the reason i kept explaining about the legacy mainframe in wide broker use was to counter the irascibles in this forum who kept complaining tdw & other brokers were stupid, behind the times, ignoring their clients, etc. The fact is that only 3 brokers have got a USD rrsp & apparently the others cannot. Yesterday i heard from a broker whose system i'd never even heard of, but they don't have a USD rrsp either.

meanwhile there are rumous, whispers, portents & entrails suggesting that the brokerage industry is trying to cure at least part of the rrsp problem from the other end. They are trying to get the 18 canadian companies that pay USD dividends to offer - through the transfer agents - a choice of dividends in either USD or CAD. Reportedly the companies will have to pay for this. It's not known whether this is being discussed strictly for rrsps or not, or whether it also involves US companies with their US dividends or not.

vague though the rumours are, they are a faint signal that the organized brokerage industry at least partially understands that it can't keep on grabbing peoples' retirement savings away from them via FX fees on dividends.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> gosh.
> nobody interested in this?
> maybe the agents are being too opaque each:
> once more, with feeling
> no. USD. rrsp. at. the. big. green. this. summer


Yeah, thanks for reposting that h_p.
I did miss your first mention of it upthread.
There had been talk of USD rrsp for first quarter 2013 but that came and went and .. nothing, so no big surprise to me.

I asked in another thread recently if there was any news on this but there was no answer.
This is the one issue that I wish TDW would bump up on their priority list but I guess the clearly unethical absorption of all those hidden double FX fees out of our pockets must be an addiction the big green finds hard to break.

Seems to me that the only thing that will make TDW take notice of this issue at all is more bad press.
Otherwise they'll keep putting it on the back burner and hoping we'll forget they're stealing out of our pockets every single day that they put off correcting this.


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