# Residential Schools



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Surprised this hasn’t become a thread yet.

any way….I know nothing about the issue. I have some questions. What were the actual living conditions like in these schools? Why are there so many deceased children at these sites? Were deaths rates for children unusually high at these locations? 

I’ve heard the families willingly released their children to these schools? Is that true or were they forcibly taken from their families.

My kids completed grade 10 Canadian history recently….I still don’t think this part of the curriculum.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I'm not surprised.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I always heard the conditions in the schools was not good and thought of it like going to a strict religious school or something like that.

I had no idea that there were thousands of children who died in those schools and were buried on the grounds. It was never discussed in school.

No recording of the deaths ? No funerals or parents told ? Just bury the kids in unmarked graves ?

What kind of people do that ? That is a special kind of evil.

I did some research a couple years ago into mental health hospitals in Ontario....because of some connections I saw to those facilities (more than coincidences could explain) and a rash of murders in our city. Some of the suspects (in my mind) were high level people who worked as doctors and administrators in the hospitals and had connections also to universities. I think the police investigators knew it but couldn't prove it and they couldn't accuse the people because of their high profile in the community.

They were evil places as well and Ontario closed them all down after some scathing articles were written by well known Canadian journalists like Pierre Berton.

Any place where there are defenseless people..........evil tends to lurk close by.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

"it’s almost as if the prime conditions of the outbreak of epidemics had been deliberately created." - medial health officer Dr. Peter Bryce to his superiors at the Department of Indian Affairs.

In 1907, Canada's Chief Medical Health officer, PH Bryce, raised the alarm about death rates of 25% of children in the schools per year due to inequitable health care, poor health practices and lack of ventilation.








This doctor tried to raise alarms about residential schools 100 years ago but was ignored


Dr. Peter H. Bryce tried to sound the alarm on residential schools a century ago but historians say he was silenced by government officials. Indigenous advocates restoring his legacy say much can be learned from his example.




www.ctvnews.ca






Daniel Kennedy (Ochankuga’he) describes his experience at the Qu’Appelle (Lebret) residential school.
"In 1886, at the age of twelve years, I was lassoed, roped and taken to the Government School at Lebret. Six months after I enrolled, I discovered to my chagrin that I had lost my name and an English name had been tagged on me in exchange… “When you were brought here [the school interpreter later told me], for purposes of enrolment, you were asked to give your name and when you did, the Principal remarked that there were no letters in the alphabet to spell this little heathen’s name and no civilized tongue could pronounce it ... "





__





Residential Schools in Canada


Residential schools were government-sponsored religious schools that were established to assimilate Indigenous children into Euro-Canadian culture. Although the...




www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca






As for agreement to send their kids ...

"*An amendment to the Indian Act in 1894, under Prime Minister Mackenzie Bowell, made attendance at day schools, industrial schools, or residential schools compulsory for First Nations children. *

Due to the remote nature of many communities, school locations meant that for some families, residential schools were the only way to comply.

*The schools were intentionally located at substantial distances from Indigenous communities to minimize contact between families and their children*.

Indian Commissioner Hayter Reed argued for schools at greater distances to reduce family visits, which he thought counteracted efforts to assimilate Indigenous children."








Canadian Indian residential school system - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





I did not learn about them from the school curriculum either.


There's also the Sixties Scoop ... Sixties Scoop - Wikipedia


Cheers


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Along with the tearing down of statues, and calls to rename universities, sports teams etc.........there is now a movement to rename Dundas Street in Ontario.

Dundas Street goes hundreds of miles. You can drive on Dundas Street (main street in London) all the way to Toronto, through cities, towns, and villages.

To change the name will cause a huge disruption and headaches for everyone who live or do business on that street.

It seems kind of pointless when hardly anyone even knew who Dundas was. I am 70 and never heard of him before now.

We should stop naming streets and buildings after famous people because who knows what is going to show up from their past.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Not sure why some wiki links and a CTV news link would need review by a moderator before making the post visible. IIRC, none of other messages so tagged were made visible at a later date so here is a synopsis.

To answer the question of whether the residential schools were mandatory, go to the wiki link about them. It lists the 1894 amendment to the Indian Act attendance at day, industrial or residential schools mandatory. Indian commissioner Hayter Reed argued for schools to be at great distances to cut down on family visits. He felt these visits worked against assimilation.

The result was residential schools being located long distance away for the community. It also meant that the residential school was the only way for many families to meet the school requirement.

Some First Nations wanted education to help their community but did not expect it would include separating parents from children.

Daniel Kennedy (Ochankuga’he) describes his experience at the Qu’Appelle (Lebret) residential school in his memoires. He describes how in 1886, at the age of 12 he was lassoed, roped and taken to the residential school.

In a recent interview I heard, one of the Sixties Scoop kids said he was taken in his teens. He had never seen his mother have problems with alcohol or drugs until her seven children were taken from her.


There is also Canada's Chief Medical Health officer, Dr Peter H Bryce who in 1907 wrote in his report to his superiors at the Department of Indian Affairs that from his visits, it is almost like the prime conditions for epidemics were built into the residential schools. His reported to have raised the alarm about death rates of 25% of children in the schools per year due to inequitable health care, poor health practices and lack of ventilation.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

sags said:


> Along with the tearing down of statues, and calls to rename universities, sports teams etc.........there is now a movement to rename Dundas Street in Ontario ...


Sure ... though he kept the UK slave trade going longer, despite it being unpopular in the UK so I'm not sure that First Nations care much about him or why it would be relevant to learning about residential schools.

Cheers


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don't know anything about him, but here is a paragraph from Wikipedia.

Evidently, although he never set food in Canada, as the UK Home Secretary he had influence over the British colony that was Canada.

I don't think it is an indigenous issue to have the name changed, but is part of the overall rethinking of our past connections.

_Given his efforts to delay the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade during the 1790s, *subjugation of First Nations communities in Canada as Home Secretary,*[62] as well as perceptions about the role Dundas played as Secretary of State for War, campaigners have argued against the commemoration or memorialisation of Dundas.[63][64] Following the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020, several cities around the world have made efforts to review the naming of public places and statues commemorating slave traders.__[63]_


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Money172375 said:


> Surprised this hasn’t become a thread yet.
> 
> any way….I know nothing about the issue. I have some questions. What were the actual living conditions like in these schools? Why are there so many deceased children at these sites? Were deaths rates for children unusually high at these locations?


Why surprised? The issue has been well reported in some depth in the last number of weeks and there is little anyone at CMF can add to the conversation. It is a travesty of monumental proportions and the repercussions are only starting. It is going to take years to peel back all the layers of this onion. Residential school living (physical and mental) conditions were horrifying and would border on ethnic cleansing (short of outright murder) in most countries. Far too many disproportionate deaths among the student group, never mind the cleansing of first nations spirituality, culture and language.

A special prosecutor with subpoena privileges will likely be needed to unwind this mess. The evil perpetuated by religious orders, the Catholic Church in particular, and complicity of government and police forces requires an independent third party to be in charge.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

This will end up like most sex abuse scandals involving clergy.

The focus of the Church will never really be on the victims. Rather, the focus will be on money and on financial liability. And on protecting their rather tarnished reputation. As it always has been.

There was a commitment by the Church to fund $25 million in victim restitution years ago. They have funded approx $ 4 million to date. Claiming poverty and no available funds. Wriggling out of every financial commitment they have made to past and current victims is an clear indication of their 'caring'.

Yet the media reports in the same time frame the Church raised $292 Million additional monies for various projects. Zero comment by the Church on this of course.

Individually there may be some sense or responsibility towards the victims. Collectively there will not be.

It is all about the money. Always has been, always will be. It one of the reasons why, IMHO, the Church will make every excuse not to hand over documents or will conceal the most incriminating of them. I would prefer that the authorities make this a criminal matter and issue search and seizure warrants.

Collectively, as an organization, they have no shame whatsoever.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

The focus needs to be on government. 
It wasn't priests who were going kidnapping children and making it mandatory to attend. 
Church was complicit in actions of the government, not the other way around.
And of course it will end up exactly like every single investigation government ever did on itself.
Church really can't do anything at this point. They have no power whatsoever. 
Government still has power to take children away from you and exterminate them, and nobody questions that power.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Yeah, me too, I vote for Canada spending all of its GDP for the next 100 years or so on investigating and paying compensation for past wrongs. I am sure there are many more to come to light. We must leave no stone unturned, and no reason to ignore pre-confederation times. Lots of nastiness perpetrated too by those who went on to be founders of this not-so-great (as we are starting to see) nation.

For example, as reported here: Building the Transcontinental Railroad: How 20,000 Chinese Immigrants Made It Happen
we are told of the Chinese brought over the build Canada's Transcontinental Railroad, the writer there says:

_They toiled through back-breaking labor during both frigid winters and blazing summers. Hundreds died from explosions, landslides, accidents and disease. And even though they made major contributions to the construction of the Transcontinental Railroad, these 15,000 to 20,000 Chinese immigrants have been largely ignored by history._

What a shameful chapter in our history. Enough to give me the vapours and have me reaching for the smelling salts. I am sure we can locate some ancestors in China to whom to pay millions in compensation. 

And there must be many owed much over the Quebec conscription crisis of 1917. 

And leave us not forget the interned Japanese in WWII. Sure, some modest compensation was paid to some, but downright niggardly (can we say that anymore?) by modern standards. I think that matter needs to be reopened, Royal Commissions appointed and special prosecutors brought in with plenary powers to subpoena the dead.

I can come up with a lot more, and I am sure there are countless worthy cases with which I am unfamiliar. Canada has no business addressing trivial issues such as climate change, child poverty, health care, education to make us competitive in the future, etc., not when we have unfinished (barely started) business in identifying and making atonement for our past. That will take time, a lot. And money, a lot more. But it must be done. _Ex debito justitiae._

What follows starting in the next paragraph was written recently by someone else. That individual and I are maybe the only two in Canada who share the same thinking. A cry in the wilderness. I expect some expressions of contempt, but I care not. I no longer feel the need to please anyone. I accept that AltaRed represents the overwhelming majority, who wish for us to devote endless resources and long years "to peel back all the layers of this onion". And all the onions still in the root cellar. 

Because 215 children’s graves were found at the Kamloops Residential School *DOES NOT* constitute genocide. Moreover, it may not indicate much of anything! Of course, the Residential Schools were ill-conceived, seemingly poorly run and maybe even criminally negligent and cruel at times. But 215 children’s deaths over the 88 years of the Kamloops operation with as many as 500 kids in residence at a time when the First Nations were suffering greatly from Tuberculosis is likely close to the normal mortality rate for those unfortunate times. That works out to approximately 2.5 children per year from amongst 500 annually enrolled, underprivileged, unhealthy children. By my poor math that is .5% per year. Coincidentally, the Canadian child mortality rate in *2019* was 4.9 deaths per 1000 children or .5%.

Yes, I know that we can lament and grieve the situation they suffered and that we should. Those kids died separated from their families and were discarded heartlessly. Many of those that survived described the schools as cruel, inhumane and they clearly did not achieve what was intended, namely assimilating, educating and training the students in becoming ‘white’. Residential schools were a mistake.

But even the coldest, cruelest and stupidest of the staff, even the pedophiles (if there were), even the bullies and creeps were *NOT *waging genocide. They were up to all sorts of no good and definitely not enough do-good but they were not engaged in genocide.

Sometimes (most times) this nonsense of handwringing, self-flagellation and exaggerated, misplaced apologies over every perceived wrong done in the past is, at best, a dramatic self-serving (politically) apology of sorts. Sometimes it is merely stating an ugly fact about what our ancestors perpetrated in their ignorance. And maybe that is a necessary component of reconciliation. But, not only is it *not* working, it is making matters worse. If Trudeau admits to someone else’s genocide, then that is tantamount to pleading guilty to murder on a grand scale on behalf of someone long dead. Trudeau is accepting guilt for something he wasn’t even around for and those that were are no longer alive to defend themselves. Not in any way.

A.E Ryerson is considered the ‘father’ of modern education in Ontario and that included the concept and creation of the Residential schools. That his mission failed is fact. But, so far, that seems to be the only fact that I can discern. He did not have a mandate for genocide, he had a mandate for education. He was also a strict Methodist preacher born in 1803 to a well-off family in Ontario and was very likely not so-very-much understanding of the First Nations due to his somewhat removed and privileged place in society and politics. We have had more than our share of those kind of out-of-touch politicians. I probably would be disinclined to like A.E. Ryerson but his life history is not one of murder and cruelty.

Trudeau assuming Ryerson’s guilt (and J.A. McDonald’s) is stupid in itself but, of course, the modern politician also assumes to distribute compensation to the victim’s ancestors. Trudeau will provide money from the taxpayer, not his own pocket (how sincere and heartfelt can that be?). How does giving millions of dollars today make any sense in this matter anyway? Some 35 year old can now get an F-150 to make up for the long lost cousin who died 100 years ago in a Residential school from TB? Maybe, just maybe, some compensation might be justified for any ex-student still alive. Maybe. Sometimes, however, a mistake is just a mistake and it was unfortunate and we should all just do better now that we know better. FULL STOP.

I wouldn’t make this rant if the so-called compensation and acts of contrition weren’t clearly having the opposite effect of the intention. First Nations do not accept all the money and apologies and then say,* “Oh, gee. Thanks for the moolah. Let’s be friends now.”*

Of course not. They do what most people would do, they say, “Hey, you owe me even more money than that last amount. We found more evidence of wrong doing by your ancestors hundreds of years ago and now we want even more money, more apologies and more concessions.” In other words, we are perpetuating the mistake by feeding into ridiculous expectation that also DO NOT HELP the people, First Nations or General Population. This current policy of buying forgiveness is really just a separation pathway that leads to more conflict.

Put another way: I do not blame a *young *German for Hitler. How can anyone? My father was so shot up in the second world war that he had a 100% disability pension. Our family lives were made very difficult as a result of his war injuries. Should I sue Germany? Does Merkel owe me an apology? I think it is time to ease up on the mea culpa craze, don’t you?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

sags said:


> Along with the tearing down of statues, and calls to rename universities, sports teams etc.........there is now a movement to rename Dundas Street in Ontario.
> 
> Dundas Street goes hundreds of miles. You can drive on Dundas Street (main street in London) all the way to Toronto, through cities, towns, and villages.
> 
> ...


I also never heard about Dundas guy 😁... but because of those “rename streets “ movement” , we learn more history 🤣

P.S. I’d suggest rename all related to Mackenzie King


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We can't change the past, but we can shape the future. How we treat indigenous folks today is as relevant and isn't that great.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Or just say Dundas street is now named after Gibor Dundas and be done with it......who ?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I think a special investigation is necessary, if only to: 1) bring clarity and awareness to Canadians of this sordid century and a half of our history, 2) to force public disclosure of all the records, and 3) to get the Catholic Church to cough up the remaining $21 million of unpaid settlement (other denominations have paid out their share of the settlement).

Most Canadians know very little of this chapter of our history and the institutions and players who were front and center. If governments won't let it be taught in our schools, then disclosure must come in other ways. The Catholic Church is especially egregious in its involvement in the residential school system and it cannot seem to find $21 million even though they still raise hundreds of millions for their flashy buildings. It may well bring a true (more balanced) appreciation of the residual effects still present today. We owe it to ourselves.


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## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

Well said Mukhang!

I thought I was the only one that felt that way.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Zipper said:


> Well said Mukhang!
> 
> I thought I was the only one that felt that way.


Nope, y'er not alone. Now I know there are at least 3 of us in Canada who think like that!


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Money172375 said:


> Why are there so many deceased children at these sites? Were deaths rates for children unusually high at these locations?


Hundred years ago “The commission ultimately determined that at least *3,200 *children died while a student at a Residential School.”

And now.

In 2019 an estimated 5.2 million (*5,200,000*) children under 5 years died mostly from preventable and treatable causes. Children aged 1 to 11 months accounted for 1.5 million of these deaths while children aged 1 to 4 years accounted for 1.3 million deaths. Newborns (under 28 days) accounted for the remaining 2.4 million deaths.
An additional *500,000* older children (5 to 9 years) died in 2019.
Leading causes of death in children under-5 years are preterm birth complications, birth asphyxia/trauma, pneumonia, congenital anomalies, diarrhoea and malaria, all of which can be prevented or treated with access to simple, affordable interventions including immunization, adequate nutrition, safe water and food and quality care by a trained health provider when needed.
Older children (5-9 years) had one of the largest declines in mortality since 1990 (61%), due to a decline in infectious diseases. Injuries (including road traffic injuries and drowning) are the leading causes of death among older children.
3.2 k and 5.7 millions.
Honestly I think this topic with residential schools is way overblown by MSM.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Also, how many kids died at the same time while being with their tribes ? How does this number compare with residential schools?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

He was a nice guy, a real community leader and well liked by everyone. Then one day they found 17 bodies in a freezer in his basement.

You can't tell a book by the cover or what people are like by what they say or how they appear. Better to judge them on what they did.

In the tragic tale of residential schools......the government and the churches have much blame to share.


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## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

Now I know there are at least 3 of us in Canada who think like that!

that makes 6 of us - including :saskstu and Zipper


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Ukrainiandude said:


> Also, how many kids died at the same time while being with their tribes ? How does this number compare with residential schools?


For Tuberculosis deaths, during the 1930s and 1940's being at a residential school meant a death rate that is reported to have been something over 11 times higher than being at home on the reserve.

Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Mukhang pera said:


> ... What follows starting in the next paragraph was written recently by someone else. That individual and I are maybe the only two in Canada who share the same thinking. A cry in the wilderness. I expect some expressions of contempt, but I care not. I no longer feel the need to please anyone. I accept that AltaRed represents the overwhelming majority, who wish for us to devote endless resources and long years "to peel back all the layers of this onion". And all the onions still in the root cellar.
> 
> Because 215 children’s graves were found at the Kamloops Residential School *DOES NOT* constitute genocide. Moreover, it may not indicate much of anything! Of course, the Residential Schools were ill-conceived, seemingly poorly run and maybe even criminally negligent and cruel at times. But 215 children’s deaths over the 88 years of the Kamloops operation with as many as 500 kids in residence at a time when the First Nations were suffering greatly from Tuberculosis is likely close to the normal mortality rate for those unfortunate times ...


So it doesn't bother you that Tuberculosis deaths are reported to have been something like eleven times higher in residential schools than amongst the rest of First Nations? 

Interesting that you are quoting a recent author who is arguing it was likely normal. 

Dr. Peter Bryce, the the Chief Medical Officer of the federal Departments of the Interior and Indian Affairs wrote in 1907 that residential school residents were deprived of adequate medical attention and sanitary living conditions. His suppressed report, when eventually published in 1922 was named "_The Story of a National Crime: Being a Record of the Health Conditions of the Indians of Canada from 1904 to 1921_". 

Call me part of the majority if you want but I'm thinking Dr. Bryce had more first hand info than this recent author.




Mukhang pera said:


> ... Put another way: I do not blame a *young *German for Hitler. How can anyone? My father was so shot up in the second world war that he had a 100% disability pension. Our family lives were made very difficult as a result of his war injuries.


I'd think more than your father would have to be impacted to make a better comparison. 

There wasn't just the residential schools but I will leave it here.


Cheers


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## Bananatron (Jan 18, 2021)

At the risk of sounding insensitive, what is the end game with respect to Residential Schools? Is it simply awareness and accountability?


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Bananatron said:


> At the risk of sounding insensitive, what is the end game with respect to Residential Schools? Is it simply awareness and accountability?


Why do you think there is an endgame?
This is political goldmine.
You have media filling out their pages with it, instead of focusing on failures, censorship bill being pushed, and corruption.
Not much coverage for example has been given to the government funneling millions of taxpayer money to the companies of their friends.
Politicians don't want people or media focusing on problems in the country, their corruption, and general lack of ethics. Media being focused on residential schools and burning churches is very comfortable situation.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> And leave us not forget the interned Japanese in WWII. Sure, some modest compensation was paid to some, but downright niggardly (can we say that anymore?) by modern standards. I think that matter needs to be reopened, Royal Commissions appointed and special prosecutors brought in with plenary powers to subpoena the dead.


 For some reason the atrocities by Japanese government during WWll have not drawn as much attention as Nazi German.
Was the compensation paid to Chinese people and other affected? 
But if you interested read up on *Unit 731








Unit 731 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




*


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

sags said:


> We can't change the past, but we can shape the future. How we treat indigenous folks today is as relevant and isn't that great.


 Don’t they all get a monthly cheque and privileges under the treaty act? Which I personally think should be abolished and everyone should be treated equally nowadays.
This is what should be done.
The 1969 White Paper (formally known as the “Statement of the Government of Canada on Indian Policy, 1969”) was a Canadian government policy paper that *attempted to abolish previous legal documents relating to Indigenous peoples in Canada*, including the Indian Act and treaties.

It is old and it’s past. Mistreatment was applied to the people long time dead by the people long time dead. I don’t see any reason why certain people should be treated differently. 
children are not responsible for the crime committed by their parents.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Eclectic21 said:


> So it doesn't bother you that Tuberculosis deaths are reported to have been something like eleven times higher in residential schools than amongst the rest of First Nations?
> 
> Interesting that you are quoting a recent author who is arguing it was likely normal.
> 
> ...


I think you missed the point of the fellow I quoted by a country mile. Or a rural kilometre, or something. The focus of his comments was not TB infection and mortality rates.

And just plain silly for you to make a fatuous statement like "So it doesn't bother you...". Yes, the whole debacle is bothersome, but do we need to flog ourselves for generations to come, to strike Royal Commissions, appoint special prosecutors, set up administrative machinery, all to find ways to say we are sorry yet again and to pay compensation to those largely unaffected? I would rather see the financial and other resources directed to current issues facing the nation and the planet. Do you know the final cost of the IRSSA? Do we need now to spend those billions again, while our healthcare system and other pressing causes are underfunded?

And apparently you did not even give the matter a casual reading in your unbridled haste to express a contrarian view. I said not a word about my father. That was part of the message of the author I quoted.

Cheers


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Bananatron said:


> At the risk of sounding insensitive, what is the end game with respect to Residential Schools? Is it simply awareness and accountability?


To take advantage of voter's irrational emotions to get elected. After all there really is nothing more that can be done. As MP indicated, finding out what people, who have been dead for a century or more, might have done many, many years ago is not going to change much going forward from today.

In my opinion, the quicker we stop calling them aboriginals and start calling them Canadians, and they stop asking for separate status, the quicker we can get rid of any racism that might still prevail. Unfortuneately, that would cost a lot of them a lot of money so I doubt they will find that very appealing.

For example, there has been a Indian drive through booth selling untaxed cigarettes, down the road from my mother's house for years. There are at least 3 cars waiting to buy smokes at all times, most of them non-aboriginal Canadians. If I opened up a booth like that, at the end of my driveway, I would be shut down before the end of the first weekend, along with an appointment to talk to a judge so as to explain my behavior.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Hasn't the "let bygones be bygones" type of attitude towards the past treatment of native people been a dismal failure ?

I think the first step is for the churches to turn over the records of all the children who died there so at least we know their names.

A second step is to ensure all the reserve communities have access to the basics of life.....housing, clean water, internet services, healthcare etc.

Other steps are to encourage economic development on native lands. They occupy some of the best land in Canada for tourist and ag industries.

One step at a time.......


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

sags said:


> A second step is to ensure all the reserve communities have access to the basics of life.....housing, clean water, internet services, healthcare etc.


The easiest solution to that is to do away with reserves entirely. The water coming out of my tap is clean. I have good internet access. I don't recall anyone preventing anyone from living in my neighbourhood.

At some point in time, we should start calling all people that live in Canada, Canadians and move on from this discrimination. Giving an aboriginal extra rights is just as discriminatory as excluding them from something. I just think we should stop that. 

As you said, what we have done in the past has not worked all that well so perhaps we should eliminate all discrimination and see if that helps. To just let one class of person choose what they like and demand changes to what they don't like is never going to work.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Let's get some facts out there -
The children were taken not voluntarily sent, like I was taught at school. Parents hid their children to try to prevent them from being taken. 
The goal of taking the children was to 'Kill the Indian in child' as recommended by Grandin. If they killed the child in the process, then the issue got buried - literally. This was a form of cultural genocide
Hitler's Concentration camps were inspire by Canada's residential schools. 
This was NOT hundreds of years ago, the last school closed in 1997. 

Those that did survive in residential schools ended up abused, with trauma, or having the a part of them killed. 
The generation impacts of the abuse has lasting impacts of future generations that cannot be understood. 
Many turned to alcohol and drugs to numb the pain, as they have not been given supports or taught how to cope. 
For those that weren't forcefully sterilized, many have know idea how to raise a child in a nurturing environment, this continues the cycle. 
There are still parents/grandparents, families that are alive today that do not have confirmation of what has happened to their loved ones. 

This was some of the information I learned since the first discovery. I had no idea because I was not taught the depth of the residential schools, other than these were the schools that Indian families sent their kids so they can learn to adjust. 

Maybe instead of asking them to once again just be Canadian aka assimilate, maybe think why would Indigenous people not want to identify as Canadians. Perhaps, they see colonizers took over their land, killed their way of life, and took and killed their children among of a few of the things. Yet, we asked them to be Canadian. Would expect a Jew to hail Hitler, or see the Nazi's point of view? 


Maybe stop looking at it as 'extra' rights, but the rights the Colonizers took from them, which was their right to live their way of life. None of us can change time, and have them live their life as if colonizers weren't hear. However, we can look past our privilege and recognize that we all benefitted from colonization at the expense of the Indigenous. How about stop asking the Indigenous to get over something that was as recent at 1997 and take our responsibility in helping the healing and reconciliation. How about recognizing that as Canadians we have done very little to reconcile what happened. We need to stop asking Indigenous people to do things we think are right, but ask them what they want, and help them even if it's uncomfortable. 

Provided extra supports to those that we ripped apart is not racism, it's trying to help break the cycle of systemic racism.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Hasn't the "let bygones be bygones" type of attitude towards the past treatment of native people been a dismal failure ?
> 
> I think the first step is for the churches to turn over the records of all the children who died there so at least we know their names.
> 
> ...


They should get records.

All reserve communities have access to those things.
There is NOTHING stopping a native person from these things.
I paid someone to build my house, I pay to get clean water, I pay to get internet, and I pay to get government health care.
Some people don't have nice houses, clean water or good internet, it's because they didn't build them, or pay someone for them.

The problem with development on Native lands is they don't follow the same laws so they don't have the same opportunities.

Think about your mortgage, you don't pay, the bank gets your house.
On a Reserve, you can't seize the property if they don't pay, so they can't get a conventional mortgage.

T


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

As far as endgame it's simple.
The authoritarian left wants to gain a dependant voting block.

They will use this as an excuse to put even more control and dependence on First Nations people, so that they stay poor and dependant on Federal government funding. Ideally with the goal of voting Liberal for all time.

The problem is that white supremacists like Trudeau honestly don't think that First Nations people are capable of taking care of themselves, which is laughable and paternalistic.
They're fully capable, if the government just got out of the way.

It's funny, liberals (like myself) and First Nations want the same thing, the government to stop making things worse.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

My wife attended a one room school in rural Saskatchewan in the 1950s..

There are no mass graves in that school yard, despite children being exposed to the same health dangers as the native children.

We need to know what happened in those schools. The government should make a final demand to the Catholic church to hand over all the records.

If the church refuses, start seizing their property for sale by the crown and direct the proceeds to improve conditions on the reserves.

Let the perpetrators pay. If they don't like it they can "offshore" their churches, as they do with their money.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

sags said:


> The government should make a final demand to the Catholic church.
> 
> If the church refuses, start seizing their property for sale by the crown and direct the proceeds to improve conditions on the reserves.


You do realize the people (governed the church and the government)that have done those things are long time dead? Do you want to prosecute their children and grandchildren? 
If you want to help the reserves you are always welcome to make a donation. 
There are many North American Indians (willing to work) who got off reserves and doing fairly well for themselves and the family. What exactly precludes the rest to follow if they are not happy with their life on reserves? 
If I am not happy in one country I move to another.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

That is their choice to make.

Turn over all the records or everything you own will be seized and sold for reparations.

As noted by others, they should also fulfill the financial commitments they already made.

Sorry, but I have no intention of paying for the breach of responsiblity of a church.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> Let's get some facts out there -
> The children were taken not voluntarily sent, like I was taught at school. Parents hid their children to try to prevent them from being taken.


You were taught wrong, sorry about that.



> Provided extra supports to those that we ripped apart is not racism, it's trying to help break the cycle of systemic racism.


Absolutely.
However there is a VERY important distinction.

Providing support to someone, to whom bad things happened, is one thing. I support this.

To treat people differently because of their race is another, and that's called racism. I do not support racism.

To break the cycle of "systematic racism", we must not engage in creating systematic racism.
That's the problem, the government today is creating systematically racist programs, that BS needs to stop.

The best way to end racism is if people simply "stopped being racist".
Being racist to end racism is counterproductive.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

sags said:


> That is their choice to make.


Then they should not complain about poor living conditions. Getting brand new houses and axing the wall into the bathroom to water the horses.


sags said:


> Turn over all the records or everything you own will be sold for reparations.


If such records exist. 
Under which law the property will be sold?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> Maybe instead of asking them to once again just be Canadian aka assimilate, maybe think why would Indigenous people not want to identify as Canadians. Perhaps, they see colonizers took over their land, killed their way of life, and took and killed their children among of a few of the things. Yet, we asked them to be Canadian. Would expect a Jew to hail Hitler, or see the Nazi's point of view?
> 
> 
> Maybe stop looking at it as 'extra' rights, but the rights the Colonizers took from them, which was their right to live their way of life. None of us can change time, and have them live their life as if colonizers weren't hear. However, we can look past our privilege and recognize that we all benefitted from colonization at the expense of the Indigenous. How about stop asking the Indigenous to get over something that was as recent at 1997 and take our responsibility in helping the healing and reconciliation. How about recognizing that as Canadians we have done very little to reconcile what happened. We need to stop asking Indigenous people to do things we think are right, but ask them what they want, and help them even if it's uncomfortable.
> ...


Anytime one group of people is favoured against another, it is racism.

I have no doubt asking them to become Canadian and give up their culture will be met with resistance but until all Canadians are treated equally there will always be problems.

As for rewarding a group of people because their ancestors many generations ago had something taken is just ridiculous. As for these descendants. They were born here and they are not going anywhere else. I was born here and I am not going anywhere else and I imagine you and your children were born here and I doubt you are going to leave and give them back what was taken. Sooooo, we need to figure out how to bring the two groups together. keeping separate statuses and rights and privileges is not a very good solution for any of the groups that are not going anywhere. You see what I mean.

As for residential schools. Sure, let's find out what happened to all those people that are not with us anymore. Knowing history is useful. But let's not let it overwhelm our common sense. The aboriginal way of life is dead. Trying to keep it alive will just create more hardship, mostly for them. Let's open a museum to remember it, like we do with all dead cultures, and then get on with the way life is.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> My wife attended a one room school in rural Saskatchewan in the 1950s..
> 
> There are no mass graves in that school yard, despite children being exposed to the same health dangers as the native children.
> ...


Was that school a residential school, far from home? If not, no need to bury anyone at school.

Also, your resort to the florid, inflammatory term ‘mass grave’ implies ‘they all died at once’…..thus the leap to genocide.

Someone else (with whom I agree) recently commented:

T_he whole 1st Nations debate is a never ending blame session.
If Canada had never been conquered by Europeans these 1st Nations would still be fighting, enslaving, killing and conquering each other.
As was their history over tens of thousands of years.
As for the “1st nations” moniker….even they conquered the land as occupiers hundreds of thousands of years ago.
The latest debate,/outrage/ apologies comes after the “discovery” of a long forgotten graveyard.
A graveyard that was lost to history.
Canada is full of “lost” graveyards with mass burials due to 500 years of wars, famines, plagues, etc.
I personally know of a graveyard ,literally on the east coast of Canada that is being washed away by the ocean. A few 150 year old headstones remain of people that are long forgotten…even by their families
Far be it for me to suggest that the politicians of this country would seize on a craven opportunity to pander for votes by standing up and “apologizing” for anonymous, long dead, forgotten children.
Crocodile tears come to mind.

A co worker was on Vancouver island yesterday and spent the night at a friends place.
The friend lives next to a Reserve.
While Canada and its taxpayers must apologize again and again and again for wrongs committed 100, 200 and 300 years ago and cancel our National Holiday along with handing out Billions in reparation payments…..
The 1st Nations people on Vancouver Island were obviously over their 3 weeks of “grief” for the Kamloops School graveyard discovery since………. the Fireworks for Indigenous Day were plentiful and loud.
On the bright side.
No churches were burnt._

Another writer commented:

_In my brief stint as an Indian Agent (DIAND -1961) I had occasion to visit a number of Reservations throughout BC. I was amazed at the abundance of trashed boats/engines, chainsaws stuck in trees and GRAVES! i recall wandering along a West Coast beach and observing crypts with exposed bodies. So much for the sanctity of the dead! At least the bodies in Kamloops were buried._

Yet another wrote:

_ I think you provided a well reasoned explanation of the genocide label that is being perpetrated by some. My father was the principal of a residential school in northern Manitoba. Although in his later years he was very remorseful at the attempt at integration. He was the kindest and most humane person I have ever known and I am sure that in the 1940s and 50s the children under his care were treated with the utmost respect and consideration._


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

_Was that school a residential school, far from home? If not, no need to bury anyone at school._

What was the need to bury the kids in unmarked graves on the school grounds ?

_Also, your resort to the florid, inflammatory term ‘mass grave’ implies ‘they all died at once’…..thus the leap to genocide._

No, mass graves means mass graves and implies nothing more than that. 

Of course the presence of the mass graves do raise questions of why they are there ? 

Why did the authorities decide to not send the remains back to their parents and communities for a proper burial ?

After all, they had no problem removing the children from their parents and communities to bring them to the school.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> _Was that school a residential school, far from home? If not, no need to bury anyone at school._
> 
> What was the need to bury the kids in unmarked graves on the school grounds ?
> 
> ...


The need was borne of practical considerations, such as cost and difficulty of shipping home the departed ones.

I would take 'mass grave' to mean all were piled in together in one grave at one time. Do you know that is how it was done? Or were there different sites? Is Vancouver's Mount Pleasant Cemetery (and many like it in cities across Canada) a mass grave? Not that it matters much. We all agree it was a mistake, but how far do we go today in our mea culpas?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> That is their choice to make.
> 
> Turn over all the records or everything you own will be seized and sold for reparations.
> 
> ...


Great idea
Sags, I demand you immediately turn over all the records or everything you own will be seized and sold for reparations.

Refusal to turn over the records is clearly an admission of guilt.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> The need was borne of practical considerations, such as cost and difficulty of shipping home the departed ones.
> 
> I would take 'mass grave' to mean all were piled in together in one grave at one time. Do you know that is how it was done? Or were there different sites? Is Vancouver's Mount Pleasant Cemetery (and many like it in cities across Canada) a mass grave? Not that it matters much. We all agree it was a mistake, but how far do we go today in our mea culpas?


There is no strict definition of the term "mass graves", but the UN defines it as a "location where 3 or more bodies are buried".

Others define it as multiple bodies in a single grave or pit.

I am not sure the definition matters a whole lot but if you prefer......".thousands of *unmarked* graves" is also used to describe the situation.

They didn't even have the decency to put up a cross or otherwise mark the graves as a graveyard, which I think reveals the character of those in charge.

Just dig a hole and throw them in......is not a practice I would want to defend, and I suspect neither does the Catholic church.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Great idea
> Sags, I demand you immediately turn over all the records or everything you own will be seized and sold for reparations.
> 
> Refusal to turn over the records is clearly an admission of guilt.


If the court orders the records be turned over, it could be viewed as criminal obstruction to refuse and punished accordingly.

Law enforcement can obtain all kinds of personal records if the need arises and a judge agrees with the request.

I think a competent prosecutor could make a strong argument that the church benefited from the proceeds of crime and seek a judgement and seizure of assets if it is discovered the children died from criminal neglect or other illegal activity, while those in charge were being paid to administer the schools.

Of course, that is why the government is demanding all the records. As Trudeau has said........they are prepared to go to court to get them.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I wonder how many priests, nuns, teachers, or school administrators are also buried in those unmarked graves........due to monetary constraints.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

sags said:


> I wonder how many priests, nuns, teachers, or school administrators are also buried in those unmarked graves........due to monetary constraints.


Monks in western Ukraine have discovered the remains of about 190 people at a monastery once used by Soviet secret police. 

Photos. The remains include about 70 children, some of them less than a year old.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-grave-discovered-at-ukraine-monastery-1.306844


From July 19 to July 21, while conducting more excavation work on the mass massacre site of civilians, which probably took place in the early years of the soviet regime, in 1919-1921, we managed to exhume the remains of 29 persons. Most of them are young children and women. The number of human remains found since the beginning of our excavation work comes to 173.









Mass graves of victims of communist regime found in Zhytomyr region (photos)


“From July 19 to July 21, while conducting more excavation work on the mass massacre site of civilians, which probably took place in the early years of the soviet regime, in 1919-1921, we managed to exhume the remains of 29 persons. Most of them are young children and women. The number of human...




euromaidanpress.com




Between 1932 and 1933 Ukraine lost from 7 to 10 million people. Whole families were dying, villages were abandoned. Death was not perceived as an extraordinary phenomenon. Exhausted by a long starvation, the peasants had not the strength to bury the members of their families. The Soviet authorities, in order to conceal the extent of death and to prevent the spreading of infections, organized the picking up and burial of corpses of those killed by starvation. For this purpose, large burial pits were created in local cemeteries. Also, the corpses, found on the streets, were brought to the suburban of the cities to the gullies or other natural ditches. Often the bodies of the dead were buried in secret, at night, without coffins, with no traditional rituals. At the mass graves no memorial signs were installed.








GIS "Places of mass burial of Holodomor victims" was presented







holodomormuseum.org.ua






who should Ukraine held accountable for this?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> There is no strict definition of the term "mass graves", but the UN defines it as a "location where 3 or more bodies are buried".
> 
> Others define it as multiple bodies in a single grave or pit.
> 
> ...


Actually, they were maybe ahead of their time. I think the day may be coming to an end when we can carry on creating cemeteries where every body gets a nice piece of real estate and a headstone. And I have visited countries where that was never the practice anyway. Not sure the FNs in Canada had that practice down though the centuries. 

For myself, I would be okay with being tossed into a bit, or the ocean to feed the crabs. I am dead, so how much do I care? Do I want to be placed in a $20,000 coffin and driven to a cemetery in a fine hearse at the head of a procession of slow-moving vehicles? Not so much. Kinda' silly.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We will be cremated, as many others are now choosing to do, but I do hope we have a marker on the stone.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> If the court orders the records be turned over, it could be viewed as criminal obstruction to refuse and punished accordingly.
> 
> Law enforcement can obtain all kinds of personal records if the need arises and a judge agrees with the request.
> 
> ...


If they have the records they can be ordered to turn them over.
However if they don't have the records, they can't.
Just like you are refusing to turn over the records.

The thing is, that "the records" may or may not exist in the form that anyone is expecting.
The perpetrators are most likley long dead.
It isn't like they were murdering kids 20 years ago, these deaths are many decades or even a century ago.

There is nobody left to bring to justice. They're dead.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The churches are still around and can be held accountable.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

As I said before, once you remove your emotions, the residential school issue is simply one of investigation and analysis and a report later. Done. Nothing else can be done that will help anyone. I feel bad for these people, as do we all, but throwing money at their decedents will not help those children.

As for what we do with 1st nations today. From what I have seen, the aboriginals who integrated into Canadian society, on average have prospered as well as any other average Canadian and the ones that are determined to remain on the reservation and hold onto their old way of life have not.

Knowing that, should we force them into Canadian society. I doubt that will go over well and I am not a big fan of forcing anyone to do anything, but continuing to fund a losing program (like reservation life) sounds pretty dumb to me. Either the 1st nations live on their reservations and look after themselves 100%, without any Cdn taxpayer help or they integrate into Canada and benefit and pay equally like any other person born on this land.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> As I said before, once you remove your emotions, the residential school issue is simply one of investigation and analysis and a report later. Done. Nothing else can be done that will help anyone. I feel bad for these people, as do we all, but throwing money at their decedents will not help those children.
> 
> As for what we do with 1st nations today. From what I have seen, the aboriginals who integrated into Canadian society, on average have prospered as well as any other average Canadian and the ones that are determined to remain on the reservation and hold onto their old way of life have not.
> 
> Knowing that, should we force them into Canadian society. I doubt that will go over well and I am not a big fan of forcing anyone to do anything, but continuing to fund a losing program (like reservation life) sounds pretty dumb to me. Either the 1st nations live on their reservations and look after themselves 100%, without any Cdn taxpayer help or they integrate into Canada and benefit and pay equally like any other person born on this land.


I don't think it's integrating into Canadian society as much as interacting with the modern world.
There are many successful first Nations communities that remain quite distinct from Canadian culture, but are still quite successful.

The bad cases are those who simply reject modern society, Canadian society, and fail to take responsibility. But that's not even really a First nations problem, any person or group that rejects society and fails to take personal responsiblity has trouble.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Once the records are released we can determine what was done......right or wrong, and make sure it never happens again.

We can hold the organizations and governments to account. Individuals may be gone but those whom they represented are still around.

T_he records from the Catholic order would include what's known as the Codex Historicus, a daily journal of the operations of the schools*.*

Overall, the records are about day-to-day operations but could also include admittance records, financial statements, human resource records and teachers' profiles. 

It reminds one of the oft-remarked "banality of evil," Frogner said. 

"It's these very hum-drum daily operations of the schools until you recognize what's being operated." 

For example, the records would likely reveal the Western names forced upon some children, and the lack of quality of the curriculum.

And there would be medical documentation about the children — where deaths and grievous injuries were recorded.

"One of the things we're actually trying to do when we get these records is … recognizing that these aren't just the operations of schools, but these are also the documentations of children's lives," Frogner said. 

"We can virtually organize the records around the lives of the students themselves."_


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The church should also pay up what they agreed to. Hiding behind teams of lawyers doesn't show much remorse for what they did.

By this account the Catholic church has only paid $4 million of what they were supposed to pay.

_Meanwhile, NDP MP Charlie Angus, the party's critic for Indigenous youth, says the church has dodged paying survivors compensation.

As part of the IRSSA, Catholic groups were required to pay tens of millions of dollars — $29 million in cash to the now-defunct Aboriginal Healing Foundation, $25 million in "in-kind" services, and to use their "best efforts" to fundraise $25 million for healing programs. However, a controversial court ruling in 2015 let the groups off the hook after they raised only about $4 million of the $25-million goal._


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The church should also pay up what they agreed to. Hiding behind teams of lawyers doesn't show much remorse for what they did.
> 
> By this account the Catholic church has paid $4 million of the $79 million they were supposed to pay.
> 
> ...


I don't get it, do they expect other Churches to fundraise and pay compensation for what some long dead group of other people did?

The thing that is missing here is when they say "Catholic Church" what do they mean?

Don't worry this will never happen again, now the government gives immunity from liability as a standard part of their contract for services.
Think about it, today, if the government seizes your children, like they did for the residential schools, everyone involved is immune from prosecution and liability.








Can Those Wrongfully Investigated by the Children’s Aid Society Sue for Damages?


Being investigated by the Children’s Aid Society (“CAS”) can be an invasive and hurtful process, especially if that investigation is unfounded.




www.tslawyers.ca


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

_I don't get it_

Yes we know that.

_Do they expect other Churches to fund raise and pay compensation for what some long dead group of other people did?_

Yes......or take it out of petty cash.

_The thing that is missing here is when they say "Catholic Church" what do they mean?_

They mean the Catholic church.

_I don't get it._

Yes we know that.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

sags said:


> They mean the Catholic church.


You write a letter to the Pope. Explain the situation and perhaps Vatican will splurge some cash for the chiefs.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Your entire useless rant is based on assumption that records exist.
What if they don't?

And in exactly what way would church benefit financially by working in residential schools? It is not like student's paid tuition? The only way church could have benefited financially is if GOVERNMENT PAID THEM to EXTERMINATE CHILDREN. 

Why should descendants of whoever was hired by the government to exterminate children pay reparations for the government deciding to have aboriginal children exterminated?

You don't blame every single german soldier for holocaust. You blame the german government at the time for ordering them to do so. Same applies here. Government is guilty of extermination.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> _Do they expect other Churches to fund raise and pay compensation for what some long dead group of other people did?_
> 
> Yes......or take it out of petty cash.


Well that's the problem, you think people who weren't involved should pay.
Why not just make Sags pay for all this? You're as responsible as almost everyone else.

You have to remember, all the offenders are dead.
You want retribution, but they're gone.
Their assets are gone.

You're demanding innocent people pay for actions they never committed.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The government and the church were two key principles of the abysmal program, and they are still very much around.

Maybe they are not accountable for more than they have already admitted, but why do they resist release of the documents that would prove that ?

The Catholic church already admitted to responsibility and agreed to pay damages. Then later they reneged on their committment.

More searches and investigations continue. This sad tale isn't going to blow away quietly.

The Catholic church is using the same deny and delay tactics it used in all the child abuse and pedophilia crimes from their past.

It did work to a great degree before and slid into the past, but I don't think they will get away with that tactic today.

The world is in a different place now.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> ...
> You have to remember, all the offenders are dead...


I wouldn't have commented except for the word "all". That's pretty definitive.





4:30


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Tostig said:


> I wouldn't have commented except for the word "all". That's pretty definitive.


The vast majority of those who were actively killing children are most likely dead.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> The vast majority of those who were actively killing children are most likely dead.


You had said "all".

Are you now going into denial of your own post?


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Tostig said:


> 4:30


Some of the priests and nuns who ran residential schools are still alive: Cameron
That would impossible to prove in court that those people were responsible for death. Specifically from what I understand towards the end of schools there was no difference in mortality between tribes and schools.
case closed.
it would be interesting to conduct a survey and see who faired better kids that graduated residential or kids that stayed with their tribes.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Tostig said:


> You had said "all".
> 
> Are you now going into denial of your own post?


Clarification.

When I was referring to offenders, I was referring to the people that were actively committing genocide.
This is a subset of the people running the schools.

We know there are thousands of kids who died at the schools.

I do believe that not very many died in the last few decades, and I don't think the level of abuse was the same.

In short, the people who killed thousands of children are most likely dead, those who worked during the last few decades at the schools did not commit the same crimes.

Do you really think the remaining residential schools of the 90's were still committing a genocide and dumping thousands into unmarked graves?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> it would be interesting to conduct a survey and see who faired better kids that graduated residential or kids that stayed with their tribes.


There are some who say they had good residential school experiences, however this is getting silenced as "hate speech".

It's interesting that the wealthy still use residential schools (boarding schools) for their kids.

Maybe it's simply the unaccountable nature of government that leads to these abuses?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

When the investigators get the records from the Catholic church and government......maybe they will verify your theory.....or maybe not.

Until then, pressure on those responsible is going to continue to mount.

As the chiefs and others have said.....there are a lot more children to find and are all of them are calling out for justice.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> When the investigators get the records from the Catholic church and government......maybe they will verify your theory.....or maybe not.
> 
> Until then, pressure on those responsible is going to continue to mount.
> 
> As the chiefs and others have said.....there are a lot more children to find and are all of them are calling out for justice.


Are you suggesting that the Canadian government forcibly seized children from their parents, and is refusing to turn over the records?
FWIW, under provincial law, the organizations are immune from prosecution, I linked to this above.


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