# Do you buy *Made in Canada* products or do you go where the lowest price is ?



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

On some blogs and forums, i have seen people questioning why folks continue to patronize Wal-Mart, Zellers, Giant Tiger etc where majority of products are made in China/overseas and the quality/standard _might_ be questionable. 

Yes it would be nice if we can all buy Canadian-made products but it's a Catch-22, especially in these challenging economic times where the old adage *a dollar saved is a dollar earned* never rings any truer.

Should this be a time to lend more support to our economy and buy *Canadian* and do you strive to buy Canadian products when you can or do you simply go where the savings are ?


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## mfd (Apr 3, 2009)

I find that if I have the option between two stores for the same product I'll choose the Canadian option.

Now I will always pay a premium for Canadian made items as long as the quality warrants that premium. I'm not going to hand over my hard earn income simply for a made in Canada label.


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

mfd said:


> I find that if I have the option between two stores for the same product I'll choose the Canadian option.
> 
> Now I will always pay a premium for Canadian made items as long as the quality warrants that premium. I'm not going to hand over my hard earn income simply for a made in Canada label.


mfd, do you have any problems with *ambiguous* labeling i.e. something along the line of *designed in Canada but assembled in Mexico*...do you still consider that a made-in-Canada product ? 

On the other hand, would people have the same mentality over products made in Japan, U.S.A. or any other developed countries...just because they are not Canadian...even though the standards are supposedly higher than those made in China or India ?


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## Hazelnut (Apr 10, 2009)

I'll be brutally honest - I don't even check labels but I will investigate brand names online for major purchases to reassure myself about the quality. For me price is always a factor.


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## Financial Highway (Apr 3, 2009)

Hazelnut said:


> I'll be brutally honest - I don't even check labels but I will investigate brand names online for major purchases to reassure myself about the quality. For me price is always a factor.


Pretty much samething, these days it's hare to find thing made in Canada or even things not made in china. 

I look at:
1. Price
2. Quality

dnt mind a slight premium for better quality, if it is a long-term purchase.


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## UpNorth (Apr 3, 2009)

I would like to buy Canadian more than I actually do. One major purchase recently was my partner's engagement ring; I insisted on Canadian diamonds. A bit more pricey but it was worth to know I was making an ethical purchase. It was also probably the only time I'll buy diamonds in my life so I didn't mind paying a bit more.


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## maelstrom (Apr 10, 2009)

I try and buy local for groceries as much as possible.


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## Rickson9 (Apr 9, 2009)

canabiz said:


> On some blogs and forums, i have seen people questioning why folks continue to patronize Wal-Mart, Zellers, Giant Tiger etc where majority of products are made in China/overseas and the quality/standard _might_ be questionable.
> 
> Yes it would be nice if we can all buy Canadian-made products but it's a Catch-22, especially in these challenging economic times where the old adage *a dollar saved is a dollar earned* never rings any truer.
> 
> Should this be a time to lend more support to our economy and buy *Canadian* and do you strive to buy Canadian products when you can or do you simply go where the savings are ?


It depends on what "made in Canada" means. I'm still unclear.


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## junkyardbottles (Apr 3, 2009)

maelstrom said:


> I try and buy local for groceries as much as possible.


Same here. Prefer local groceries (fresh, frozen and canned). Everything else...not so much.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Do I buy "Made in Canada"?

Nope.
We don't manufacture much here, so its a bit of a null point for most items.


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Rickson9 said:


> It depends on what "made in Canada" means. I'm still unclear.


Rickson, a very simple question: Would you buy a Canadian-made or Canadian-assembled BBQ for $799 when a BBQ with similar specs but is made in China can be had for $599 ?


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## Mockingbird (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm frugal. Always look for the best bang for my buck. 
The only product I don't support is IF the company is known to use child labour.

I've never been a supporter of protectionism or anything close resembling one. Also due to that ambiguity in labeling, you never know if the products are indeed fully made/produced/manufactured in Canada. As far as I'm concerned, if the item is being sold by Canadian, then obviously he/she is somehow benefiting from that monetary transaction despite where it is truly made.


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## Rickson9 (Apr 9, 2009)

canabiz said:


> Rickson, a very simple question: Would you buy a Canadian-made or Canadian-assembled BBQ for $799 when a BBQ with similar specs but is made in China can be had for $599 ?


No.


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## Phalene (Apr 3, 2009)

It's not so much that I try to 'buy Canadian' as it is that I try to support my small local businesses. I find a lot of Walmart's business practises abhorrent, and personally would rather pay a few more dollars and support entrepeneurs in my own community. Of course, when you're paying more for items, you tend to buy less, which is also great for curbing consumerism.


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## yun (Apr 4, 2009)

Although I forget to notice often enough, I do regularly notice where things are produced.

As previously mentioned, Canada is not a tremendous producer of manufactured goods. Therefore, "buying Canadian" is often impossible.

However, this is a political decision where we vote with our dollars. We have a standard of living in Canada that comes, at least in part, from our regulations on labour and the environment. When we decide to buy products from businesses that manufacture in countries with labour and environmental standards that we wouldn't tolerate in our own country, we are being hypocrites. 

So, I'm a hypocrite sometimes. Is it worse to be a hypocrite in ignorance or in full knowledge?

When possible, I try to buy goods produced in (ranked in order of most prefered):
1) Canada
2) United States 
3) European Union countries

Unfortunately, I usually don't even get the chance to be a knowing hypocrite because my only options are from China and like countries.


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## stardancer (Apr 26, 2009)

I look at price, depending on what the item is. For basics like shampoo etc, I go to the lowest priced store (currently Wal Mart). For furniture, appliances, I support the local businesses in my small town. I doubt if all their products are made in Canada, but at least it's a local small business. For winter coat/jackets and boots, I always buy Canadian no matter the price. At -30, quality outweighs price.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Its getting hard to find products that are made in Canada anymore. A case in point -- my youngest daughter and I love smoked oysters (the rest of the family wont touch them), but the only product I can find is from China. Given the type of creatures that oysters are and with all the pollution and quality control problems in China, I'm reluctant to buy them. We've got lots of oysters in Canada -- why don't we produce smoked oysters? I would willingly pay double for a Canadian product in this case.


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

Spidey said:


> Its getting hard to find products that are made in Canada anymore. A case in point -- my youngest daughter and I love smoked oysters (the rest of the family wont touch them), but the only product I can find is from China. Given the type of creatures that oysters are and with all the pollution and quality control problems in China, I'm reluctant to buy them. We've got lots of oysters in Canada -- why don't we produce smoked oysters? I would willingly pay double for a Canadian product in this case.


Spidey, you raised an interesting example. When you talk about smoked oysters, do you mean the ones you get in a can or are you talking about fresh oysters that you buy at the local produce depot and smoke them yourself with your own recipes ?

If it is the former and the can is labeled *Made in Canada*, who is to say the oysters do not come from China themselves but got put in a can in Canada and thus qualify for a *Made in Canada* label ? 

If it is the latter and the oysters are supposedly *fresh*, how can you tell if the oysters come from our coast or from other more exotic locales i.e. Mexico ? Does that make a difference to you ?

There was an interesting article in the Toronto Star not too long ago where a lot of sushi restaurants passed off tilapia as the more expensive red snapper. I am not a sushi or marine expert and I certainly can't tell the difference but it is definitely a worrying trend, all in the name of the Benjamins, obviously.

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/631705


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

That is another dilemma Canabiz -- Does made in Canada really mean that the products were produced in Canada? By the way, I was talking about the canned oysters. We like them on a cracker with a thin slice of cheese (Canadian cheddar).


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## mesaana14 (Apr 4, 2009)

canabiz said:


> If it is the former and the can is labeled *Made in Canada*, who is to say the oysters do not come from China themselves but got put in a can in Canada and thus qualify for a *Made in Canada* label ?
> http://www.thestar.com/living/article/631705


Actually, under the new "Product of Canada" rules that came into effect on December 31st, that's not possible anymore. It's either "Product of Canada" which means the ingredients are actually from Canada (except for a very small percentage of additives) or it can be "Made in Canada" but it has to have a qualifier like "from foreign ingredients" or "from Canadian and foreign ingredients".  Or the label could say "Smoked in Canada" for example. It's a bit more complicated, but it's more precise.

The info is on the CFIA website, if anyone is interested.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/labeti/prodcan/prodcane.shtml


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

I appologize in advance if I'm covering ground that has already been discussed being that I havn't read all the posts. From what I understand "Product of Canada" is a label used mostly for food. In order to use this label 98% of the ingredients have to be made in Canada. 
The "Made in Canada" label is used for everything else and 51% of the manufacturing costs must come from Canada. For example: the Toyota Matrix is "Made in Canada" even though most of the parts are foreign however more than 51% of the manufacturing costs are from Canada.
If anyone is having a hard time finding Canadian made products I would recommend visiting a site called "BUYCANADIANFIRST.CA". They have tons of products made in Canada from several different industries. It's pretty cool site, I hope this makes your local shopping easier. Buying locally really makes a difference to our economy, every bit counts.


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## high octane (Jul 21, 2009)

For the things I buy at Walmart, I find better deals and quality and it's convenient. I won't shop around for little things when it's hard to find better deal/quality elsewhere

I will buy things made in Canada such as Ski Doo, Paradigm, Blackberry because the quality/price is comparable or better. Sad thing is this stuff is cheaper in the States


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Lowest price.


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## Trex (Apr 6, 2009)

Spidey said:


> Its getting hard to find products that are made in Canada anymore. A case in point -- my youngest daughter and I love smoked oysters (the rest of the family wont touch them), but the only product I can find is from China. Given the type of creatures that oysters are and with all the pollution and quality control problems in China, I'm reluctant to buy them. We've got lots of oysters in Canada -- why don't we produce smoked oysters? I would willingly pay double for a Canadian product in this case.


Better late than never:
http://www.stjeans.com


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

If possible I will stay away from made in China even if I save money. I saw a tube of toothpaste for 50 cents with Chinese writing on it I and I can just imagine the company seeing old drywall and paint lying around then grinding and mixing it to make that toothpaste.

Or a good example is that toxic Chinese drywall I read builders used in Florida. Can you imagine saving money on drywall thinking you got a good deal and have this happen. 

Buying made in Canada is hard to do so I try to buy made in the US because Canada benefits when the US does well. 

On electronics like a TV I will buy made in Korea or Japan if possible because thier quality is so much better. I have found in the world today quality is alot more important then price.


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## SavingMaster (Aug 1, 2009)

My formula is fairly simple. Quality over price. If that means Canadian, cool. If not, oh well.

I will say that I do find it interesting that we automatically assume products made in Canada are of higher quality than those made in Mexico or China.


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

Can you give us a few examples that would make us think otherwise regarding higher quality products made in China. You might have a hard time with that one considering the labour standards are night and day between Canada and China but then again some people like the taste of melamine.


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## faq (Apr 29, 2009)

Canadian Buyer said:


> Can you give us a few examples that would make us think otherwise regarding higher quality products made in China. You might have a hard time with that one considering the labour standards are night and day between Canada and China but then again some people like the taste of melamine.




iphone ...

it's the company who is cheap on the QA and let it go to the market -- but wait a sec, isn't the market driven by the consumer ...


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm pretty sure electronics are the only exception to the case but I could be wrong.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Canadian Buyer said:


> Can you give us a few examples that would make us think otherwise regarding higher quality products made in China. You might have a hard time with that one considering the labour standards are night and day between Canada and China but then again some people like the taste of melamine.


Actually, I have a recording of a talk by Yvon Chouinard, the founder of Patagonia, in which he states that the quality of fabric workers in China is higher than anywhere else in the world. Over the past 20-30 years he has used workers in North America, Europe, and a number of other countries to make Patagonia clothing, but finally settled on China on the basis of their quality alone. Patagonia puts a lot of effort into ensuring fair wages for its workers, including factory workers in China, so I don't think he was just looking for cheap labour. He said the quality of work and the work ethic of the people he could hire in China was superior than anything he'd been able to find elsewhere.


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

The average wage for a factory worker in the U.S. in 2002 was $21.11 compared to China's 64 cents. I'm sure he went there for work quality. I'm happy for Yvon that he made 270 million dollars last year but the labour standards in China remain the same..poor at best.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Canadian Buyer said:


> The average wage for a factory worker in the U.S. in 2002 was $21.11 compared to China's 64 cents. I'm sure he went there for work quality. I'm happy for Yvon that he made 270 million dollars last year but the labour standards in China remain the same..poor at best.


Well yes, I could have predicted that response and it's a logical assumption, but I've been following Chouinard's work for 20 years and it's really not just about the money.

Have a look here for details on Patagonia's work in China and other Asian countries, and their work on corporate social responsibility:

http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/patagonia.go?assetid=37493

Here in Canada, MEC shares the same philosophy and approach.

I know that many Chinese factories clean up their act when they know an auditor is coming in, and I've read the interviews with workers who describe how their bosses give them scripted replies that they're supposed to use to answer auditors' questions. It's not a perfect system by a long shot, but there's a lot of work underway to improve it. 

I'm willing to support efforts to improve things rather than just boycotting and walking away. On the other hand, I do buy local-made clothes whenever I can -- my next winter coat, for example, will be a Kanuk (even though they're twice the price and not the same quality as Patagonia), I also found a great Québec-based maker of organic hemp and cotton clothing (http://www.abaka.ca/index.html) and have bought a few items from them recently.


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks for the link Brad, I learn something new everyday. I tend to put China under a bad cloud considering the only news you hear is bad news (as is most of the news for anything else for that matter). I should have put a bit more thought into it considering that China has more than 38 million factory workers, I guess it's a bit ignorant to think that they're all run the same way. I tend to have tunnel vision sometimes. Thanks again for the link and thanks for also supporting our local economy at the same time. Every bit counts and makes a difference.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Canadian Buyer said:


> Thanks for the link Brad, I learn something new everyday. I tend to put China under a bad cloud considering the only news you hear is bad news (as is most of the news for anything else for that matter). I should have put a bit more thought into it considering that China has more than 38 million factory workers, I guess it's a bit ignorant to think that they're all run the same way. I tend to have tunnel vision sometimes. Thanks again for the link and thanks for also supporting our local economy at the same time. Every bit counts and makes a difference.


No problem! There was a long and depressing story in Granta magazine a couple of years ago about factory conditions in China that was a real eye-opener for me; I knew things were bad there but didn't realize they were that bad. But I am glad there are companies like Patagonia and MEC (which share some of the same factories) that are trying to improve things and are even going so far as to publish their factory lists in an effort to be transparent and raise accountability. That's pretty brave.


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## SavingMaster (Aug 1, 2009)

Canadian Buyer said:


> Can you give us a few examples that would make us think otherwise regarding higher quality products made in China. You might have a hard time with that one considering the labour standards are night and day between Canada and China but then again some people like the taste of melamine.


Yes, yes, your smugness aside we can all agree that tainted dog food and toxic dry wall is not a good thing. That said, considering the sheer volume of things made in China that have replaced things made in other parts of the world, and without a corresponding fall in quality (which is relative, of course, to other periods of time), one can't simply declare everything made in China to be of inferior quality just because it's made in China.


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

brad said:


> No problem! There was a long and depressing story in Granta magazine a couple of years ago about factory conditions in China that was a real eye-opener for me; I knew things were bad there but didn't realize they were that bad. But I am glad there are companies like Patagonia and MEC (which share some of the same factories) that are trying to improve things and are even going so far as to publish their factory lists in an effort to be transparent and raise accountability. That's pretty brave.


It is pretty brave, change has to start somewhere though and I'm glad there are companies out there making steps in the right direction.


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

SavingMaster said:


> Yes, yes, your smugness aside we can all agree that tainted dog food and toxic dry wall is not a good thing. That said, considering the sheer volume of things made in China that have replaced things made in other parts of the world, and without a corresponding fall in quality (which is relative, of course, to other periods of time), one can't simply declare everything made in China to be of inferior quality just because it's made in China.


First off I apologize for my smugness I hope I don't do it again. No not everything is of inferior quality but it's still the majority. Big companies increase their profit margins by decreasing their payroll by upwards of 3000%. If a company has 100 employees that works for $21/hour and 40 hours a week the payroll for the week is $84,000. In China you would pay $0.64/hour bringing your payroll down to $2,560 and saving you over 4 million per year. That's pretty substantial and a big reason why China has more than 38 million factory workers. As Brad pointed out there are companies making steps in the right direction to remove the poor quality image China holds but this is still a work in progress and by no means close to a coin flip between quality products and lack there of. If only there were more companies like Padagonia and MEC we would slowly put a dent in the sweatshops and lack of labour standards.


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## SavingMaster (Aug 1, 2009)

First, let me apologize for calling you smug. I must have been in a mood yesterday. You have a legitimate point of view and I shouldn't have characterized your opinion.

On this we can certainly agree. If I sounded like I was blindly championing China -- which for ideological reasons alone I couldn't do -- I do apologize. There is room for improvement on both sides of the equation, labour input and final product.

That said, as Thomas Barnett pointed out in his most recent book _Great Powers_, the same sins that we're accusing China of committing were committed by the U.S. and Canada a century ago. I don't want to give them a pass by saying their current practices are a transitory step towards a more North American style of labour and consumer protection but past history seems to suggest that most countries have to pass through where China is now.

Of course, one could be quite right in arguing that China could have learned from our excesses in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

How about that...I argued all sides in one post.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

How about buying stuff made in India, I don't hear to much about paint in baby food or whatever there or I could be wrong about that. At the moment though I would much rather play on the safe side regarding China. I find it is alot more expensive correcting problems or having to keep buying the same product because the cheap one you bought breaks down. And let us not forget the trips to the dump to get rid of the crap.


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## Canadian Buyer (Aug 17, 2009)

SavingMaster said:


> First, let me apologize for calling you smug. I must have been in a mood yesterday. You have a legitimate point of view and I shouldn't have characterized your opinion.
> 
> On this we can certainly agree. If I sounded like I was blindly championing China -- which for ideological reasons alone I couldn't do -- I do apologize. There is room for improvement on both sides of the equation, labour input and final product.
> 
> ...


There's no need to apologize for calling me smug when that's indeed what I was. I appreciate it though. 

I'm glad that through these posts I could acquire knowledge and references of books I haven't heard of that could further educate me on these topics. Thank you for that. I will continue to learn so that I could try and share all this knowledge with others that are not aware of these problems we face.


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## canadianbanks (Jun 5, 2009)

I buy quality and I don't really care where was the product made, besides there are not many things made in Canada anymore...


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