# My tax problem



## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

I have to start a new thread. The old one requires someone to read from start to finish before they can give relevant information so it's just turning into a driveby where people reply to other peoples' mistaken replies.

I hadn't filed taxes in 3 years. I have chronic depression and anxiety disorder so it's difficult to work steadily and I move around a lot etc. I have no assets, no credit history, no responsibilities really. 
A few months ago CRA sent me a notice that I needed to file for 3 years of taxes. During those three years I worked on various construction jobs where I was paid as a subcontractor and I think I had one 6 month stint working in an office with deductions. 
It would be nearly impossible for me to round up all my information as I'm very bad at record keeping and it would be very difficult to even remember what companies I worked for doing construction over the years.
I waited for the CRA's assessment and they say I owe $12,000.00. The assessments were late getting to me so I also received a letter reminding me I need to pay that $12,000 before someone finally gave me the actual assessments. 

I thought I would get all the information they had on file with the assessments but it just looks like final numbers. I'm not even sure what jobs I held in each year. 
So I guess I need to do my own taxes now and see if their assessment is accurate before I figure out what to do. Can I get this information online now that I've got the assessments?
If anyone knows how CRA does these assessments of delinquent filers and can shed some light on the process I'd like to hear it. 
I'm curious to know if they intentionally leave out any operations that would work out in your favor and if so which ones?

And also what's the best solution for someone who is going to be unable to pay $12,000 or make payments for at least a few months (should that turn out to be close to accurate) and does not want a frozen bank account or interest adding more and more to the debt.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

JohnnyT said:


> I thought I would get all the information they had on file with the assessments but it just looks like final numbers. I'm not even sure what jobs I held in each year.
> So I guess I need to do my own taxes now and see if their assessment is accurate before I figure out what to do. Can I get this information online now that I've got the assessments?


Here's some information I found: http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/employers/roew.shtml#employees

It looks like you will need to sign up for a Service Canada account. I'm not sure what that entails.

Edit: if you've been on EI before, then you should already have an account... I think.


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks, I tried to register the other day but it asked a question about what number is on what line of something and I didn't have the documents at the time. Come to think of it I should already have an account though since I've been on EI. Now I just have to figure out my login. 

Does anyone know if you can actually get detailed information in there? Like what employers sent in documents about me etc. I've only ever really used the stuff pertaining to EI on that site.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

It seems like they've changed their system since I was on EI. I was able to sign in through what they call a "Sign-In Partner" using my Scotiabank account, then it asked for my SIN and personal access code for EI (it was a 4 digit number in my case). I can confirm that yes it does display the records that previous employers filed, going back to 2006 in my case. They show your earnings and hours worked, etc.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

call CRA. If you have a number on the demands to pay call that one. Possibly that's a collections number and they'll refer you elsewhere, but that's a good place to start. Or call the personal tax info line from the CRA website. Calling them puts you on record as having made contact. That's critical. Right now they think (correctly?) that you're ignoring them. They hate that.

Explain your situation...that you've moved around a lot, lost your stuff, and ask for what they have on file. They'll send it to you. You then check if it's right, or if there's something missing.

If you were self employed, $12K for three years including interest and penalties and CPP may be right. But I have no way of knowing. If they've hit you hard with penalties you may get some relief under their fairness program. Same with interest, but rarely for taxes. But you have to ask and apply through their programs. And you'll need your info first. Talk to them. They do help.

And be polite. Try not be be as abrasive as you've been on this forum. Don't delay. As it goes up the collections ladder things will get more uncomfortable.

Good luck.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Yep, JT.... get all of your paperwork, track down as much information as you can. Take it to an accoutant and file your taxes. Also the accoutant will be able to help you and provide you with the professional advice to the questions that you are seeking. The accountant may also be able to help you in tracking down some of the previous work history information that you seek.

I assume that you live with a family member or rent, as your previous posts on the other thread mention no concern about a lean against your home, you seem more concerned about trying to take out a few $ and having your bank accounts frozen.

The other thread, despite your efforts to deny it, does sound like you are considering bankruptcy to avoid paying taxes. I give you the benefit of the doubt, we are not English majors on here, so sometimes our best efforts to articulate something, does not always get the proper message accross.

You also said in the other thread that you didn't want sympathy....so get your butt in gear. Your original post about all of this started in Nov. 2012, we are closing in on June 2013, how much have you accomplished since then? Go see an accountant.

You did give thanks for the Ontario link, but still haven't answered as to where you are. If you do that, perhaps someone could recommend an accountant to get you started.

I do think you have been given some really good free advice, but you won't get alot of sympathy regarding not paying your taxes from people who do pay their taxes. Especially if you don't do anything about it.


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

Cal said:


> Yep, JT.... get all of your paperwork, track down as much information as you can. Take it to an accoutant and file your taxes. Also the accoutant will be able to help you and provide you with the professional advice to the questions that you are seeking. The accountant may also be able to help you in tracking down some of the previous work history information that you seek.
> 
> I assume that you live with a family member or rent, as your previous posts on the other thread mention no concern about a lean against your home, you seem more concerned about trying to take out a few $ and having your bank accounts frozen.
> 
> ...




ONCE AGAIN! *I AM thinking of declaring bankruptcy to avoid PAYING the taxes! I am NOT thinking of declaring bankruptcy to avoid FILING the taxes.* I started a new thread because someone kept replying as though I was thinking of going bankrupt so I wouldn't have to FILE the taxes (in other words do the paperwork) and just kept up with that assumption even when I tried to clarify it several times in plain english. Then others would post based on those false assumptions without reading. 
That thread was originally started months ago and I merely updated it as the situation had changed. The last half of the thread is based on the fact that I now have an assessment and I now have some things to do and decide, the first of which is to do my own taxes. 

Plus I was also told (by the same person) that CRA debts can't be discharged with bankruptcy which I politely took issue with and that seems to be how the thread ended up going all over the bloody map and back as people don't like to admit when they're wrong and would rather just change the subject or reinvent what they said!
If you want to post about that crap then please put it in the old thread! This thread represents the actual issue I need help with!


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Perhaps you should consider changing your attitude. I cannot think of any reason why I would be inclined to help someone shirk their responsibility and avoid paying income tax. 

We live in a great country. Paying taxes is part of the equation. 

There are already too many bums and cretins in this country who don't pay their fair share. We don't need yet another one.

Have you considered emigrating to another country?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

JohnnyT said:


> Plus I was also told (by the same person) that CRA debts can't be discharged with bankruptcy which I politely took issue with and that seems to be how the thread ended up going all over the bloody map and back as people don't like to admit when they're wrong and would rather just change the subject or reinvent what they said!


To respond to your bankruptcy question, I am not any kind of an expert, but I doubt bankruptcy would result in you being able to clear (void) paying past due taxes. CRA could always have your future wages garnished to collect over time. But it might cause CRA to settle for a compromise. I would suggest asking a good tax accountant/attorney for an opinion on this, perhaps seek out community based credit counselling experts who may have referrals for just these purposes, and/or google for information. 

To me, bankruptcy should be a last resort. It is quite possible that you do not owe anywhere close to $12000 in taxes over the past 3 years. I would recommend working with CRA and get that sorted out first before proceeding down the bankruptcy route.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

JohnnyT said:


> ONCE AGAIN! *I AM thinking of declaring bankruptcy to avoid PAYING the taxes! I am NOT thinking of declaring bankruptcy to avoid FILING the taxes.* I started a new thread because someone kept replying as though I was thinking of going bankrupt so I wouldn't have to FILE the taxes (in other words do the paperwork) and just kept up with that assumption even when I tried to clarify it several times in plain english. Then others would post based on those false assumptions without reading.
> That thread was originally started months ago and I merely updated it as the situation had changed. The last half of the thread is based on the fact that I now have an assessment and I now have some things to do and decide, the first of which is to do my own taxes.
> 
> Plus I was also told (by the same person) that CRA debts can't be discharged with bankruptcy which I politely took issue with and that seems to be how the thread ended up going all over the bloody map and back as people don't like to admit when they're wrong and would rather just change the subject or reinvent what they said!
> If you want to post about that crap then please put it in the old thread! This thread represents the actual issue I need help with!


1. I'm not wrong. In your circumstances, it is infinitesimally unlikely that you will be able to declare bankruptcy over your unpaid tax bill (based on what you've told us about your assets and debts, age and other circumstances).

2. Do you really think that clarifying that your position that it isn't that you don't want to FILE your taxes, you just don't want to PAY them, is going to win you sympathizers here? 

3. Word to the wise: most people use the phrase "filing taxes" to mean "dealing with every aspect of my taxes, including paying any outstanding taxes due."


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

MoneyGal said:


> 1. I'm not wrong. In your circumstances, it is infinitesimally unlikely that you will be able to declare bankruptcy over your unpaid tax bill (based on what you've told us about your assets and debts, age and other circumstances).
> 
> 2. Do you really think that clarifying that your position that it isn't that you don't want to FILE your taxes, you just don't want to PAY them, is going to win you sympathizers here?
> 
> 3. Word to the wise: most people use the phrase "filing taxes" to mean "dealing with every aspect of my taxes, including paying any outstanding taxes due."


1. You are wrong so deal with it.

2. I'm clarifying it so people have accurate information if they choose to discuss it. Why the holy hell would someone come to an anonymous forum for "sympathy"? Does it make you feel better to insinuate that I'm looking for sympathy? Is this the tone of someone who's looking for sympathy? I'm looking for information. Reliable and accurate information. 

3.You clearly thought I didn't want to have to do the paperwork and that is quite evident from your posts. For instance your smartass reply about my possibly declaring bankruptcy after I find out if their assessment was correct was "How do you think you would find out if their deemed assessment is correct?". What you failed to read is that in the same bloody post you were replying to I also said "I'm not considering bankruptcy in order to get out of filing." in a failed attempt to perhaps finally rectify the misunderstanding. Didn't work though did it!

And BTW, the reality is I owe $12,000 in taxes that will go towards things that YOU use and I for the most part do not! So if you really want to get into the whole 'who's not doing their part' thing........


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I hear that Kandahar is nice at this time of year. 

And they do not have income tax.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

JohnnyT said:


> 3.You clearly thought I didn't want to have to do the paperwork and that is quite evident from your posts. *For instance your smartass reply about my possibly declaring bankruptcy after I find out if their assessment was correct was "How do you think you would find out if their deemed assessment is correct?". *What you failed to read is that in the same bloody post you were replying to I also said "I'm not considering bankruptcy in order to get out of filing." in a failed attempt to perhaps finally rectify the misunderstanding. Didn't work though did it!
> 
> And BTW, the reality is I owe $12,000 in taxes that will go towards things that YOU use and I for the most part do not! So if you really want to get into the whole 'who's not doing their part' thing........


It really wasn't intended to be a smartass reply. I thought I might go with the rhetorical question approach, because you didn't seem to be taking direct advice. _How you would find out how much you owe is filing your taxes_. And isn't it actually true that you don't want to "have to do the paperwork" of filing your taxes? 

If you really want to go there, I'm a net contributor to Canada's tax base, as are the majority of people on this site, I would warrant.


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

fraser said:


> I hear that Kandahar is nice at this time of year.
> 
> And they do not have income tax.


Why would they need income taxes in Kandahar. Your income taxes are paying for everything that goes on there.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

JohnnyT said:


> ONCE AGAIN! *I AM thinking of declaring bankruptcy to avoid PAYING the taxes! I am NOT thinking of declaring bankruptcy to avoid FILING the taxes.* I started a new thread because someone kept replying as though I was thinking of going bankrupt so I wouldn't have to FILE the taxes (in other words do the paperwork) and just kept up with that assumption even when I tried to clarify it several times in plain english. Then others would post based on those false assumptions without reading.
> That thread was originally started months ago and I merely updated it as the situation had changed. The last half of the thread is based on the fact that I now have an assessment and I now have some things to do and decide, the first of which is to do my own taxes.
> 
> Plus I was also told (by the same person) that CRA debts can't be discharged with bankruptcy which I politely took issue with and that seems to be how the thread ended up going all over the bloody map and back as people don't like to admit when they're wrong and would rather just change the subject or reinvent what they said!
> If you want to post about that crap then please put it in the old thread! This thread represents the actual issue I need help with!


Not sure why you are yelling. I did type that it does appear that you were considering bankruptcy to avoid paying taxes. Which you again re iterated.

I didn't say that you were avoiding paying taxes. I just said that it has been about 7 months and you haven't really done anything yet.

I find people help me more when I don't yell at them.

Also, I have politely asked 2x where you are located, in the attempts for us to provide more specific answers, information, help and maybe even a referral to an accountant for you. Again, you haven't responded to that, and have again done nothing to help yourself.

Yes, we are up to speed, CRA has given you an assessment that you owe $12,000. And you have no intention of not filing your taxes, you simply haven't done so in the last 7 months (or couple years for that matter), nor have you retained professional help for your situation over that period as well. Got it.

I used google and came up with this in 30 seconds from a bankruptcy trustees website. "If the CRA reviews your financial history and decides that you are filing for bankruptcy solely as a means to avoid paying taxes, it may challenge your bankruptcy". http://www.surgesoncarson.com/resources/index.htm

Given your attitude here, and the efforts that you have made on this matter, I am doubtful CRA will show much sympathy either.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

" And BTW, the reality is I owe $12,000 in taxes that will go towards things that YOU use and I for the most part do not! So if you really want to get into the whole 'who's not doing their part' thing........ "

The OP first claimed that he was depressed and anxious, implying that he was disabled... then he had all these energies to insult people that try to help him, not just with 1 thread, but 2 threads of messages!

He then made this type "I paid for your expenses" attitude... ruining the community spirit of a forum. Is he genuine in asking for help, or just trolling? The reader has to decide. 

I find his personal attacks here are uncalled for. I think people should just ignore him or even vote for him to get banned.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

horrors Cal please don't even think of referring him to an accountant

you wouldn't wish him on anybody not even an accountant, right


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

This is turning into an Abbott and Costello routine.....in an episode of the Twilight Zone. 
*despite your efforts to deny it* <-- That is the reason for the caps.

I am literally on a money forum asking for advice on bankruptcy because I have a tax debt I can't pay. You are misunderstanding the misunderstanding. Adding more posts to this abortion of a topic is clearly not going to help. 

You politely asked 2x where I live and I'm politely trying to not tell you. I do appreciate your link in the other thread. No offence but I live in a small town so it's pointless as I would probably have to travel a ways to find someone anyway but moreover it would also be quite easy for anyone at the CRA to figure out who I am with the information I've given so far if I were to provide that last piece of the puzzle. 

Here's the FULL quote in the FAQ:


> I'm declaring bankruptcy because of taxes. Is this allowed?
> 
> The Canada Revenue Agency may fight your bankruptcy discharge if it believes that you are declaring bankruptcy primarily as a way to avoid paying taxes. On the other hand, if the bankruptcy judge sees that you are genuinely insolvent and are unable to pay your tax debt, the debt may still be discharged. In this situation, it is important to be frank with your trustee, who may then choose to recommend a tax lawyer who specializes in situations like yours.


 What this appears to mean is that if you're some rich prick who simply wants to feign insolvency in order to save money by declaring bankruptcy on your tax debt they will possibly challenge it. If you are able to pay your debt and still live your life then you will not be allowed to declare bankruptcy. If you are "insolvent" (which I definitely am) then there is nothing they can do. I am not trying to avoid paying taxes because I want to keep the money. I am in a situation in which I know for certain I will not be able to make payments on anything in the immediate future and I definitely have no money to pay off this debt. I am already loaded to the gils with enough stress and problems right now with various other issues that if I told you about you would understand but I don't want to because it's personal. 

Now I'm not sure why some of you start talking about sympathy every time you get your nose bent out of joint on here but I'm not looking for sympathy and if I were it wouldn't be from any of you or the CRA as I'm well aware that they couldn't care less. All they understand is what they can and can not get away with and all I care about is what's best for me! If you don't like it then simply don't offer your help. 

If I thought for a second I could tell the government that I will pay it in full in 6 months if they stopped the interest from accumulating and left me alone until then I would gladly do it. But they don't work that way. Even if they did agree to those terms in some fantasy world they would still harass me for the next 6 months because they're incompetent.


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

MoreMiles said:


> " And BTW, the reality is I owe $12,000 in taxes that will go towards things that YOU use and I for the most part do not! So if you really want to get into the whole 'who's not doing their part' thing........ "
> 
> The OP first claimed that he was depressed and anxious, implying that he was disabled... then he had all these energies to insult people that try to help him, not just with 1 thread, but 2 threads of messages!
> 
> ...


"OMG we should like totally ignore him. Then like.... tell on him. Is he for real? I am so offended!"

Dude just keep walking. You are literally the last thing this thread needs at this point.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

JohnnyT said:


> "OMG we should like totally ignore him. Then like.... tell on him. Is he for real? I am so offended!"
> 
> Dude just keep walking. You are literally the last thing this thread needs at this point.


Ignore +1

Hey others, feel free to join me.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi, JohnnyT
Is there a goverment agency that help people to declare bankruptcy & work togeather with CRA to get the problem solved?Not knowing how to proceed would cause anyone a lot of stress. What about contacting your member of parliment & ask them how to proceed if CRA is not giving you the info you need ?


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

lonewolf said:


> Hi, JohnnyT
> Is there a goverment agency that help people to declare bankruptcy & work togeather with CRA to get the problem solved?Not knowing how to proceed would cause anyone a lot of stress. What about contacting your member of parliment & ask them how to proceed if CRA is not giving you the info you need ?




I have to get the information that CRA has first and do my taxes or take them somewhere. I'm preparing myself for the reality that the debt will probably be close to $10,000 regardless.
I actually did get some sort of advocate to do my taxes once a number of years back and I think that was after getting assessments then too. 

Stuff like this is very tough for me to get done as it requires multiple steps and each one is a major headache. Things have improved in the last couple weeks but I'm still stuck out of town with no car. I can't stand talking on the phone. I would literally rather pay $500 then have to talk to some government worker at a call center. It's a nightmare. Last time I tried (about something the mistakenly billed me for) I couldn't even begin the damn conversation because I couldn't verify a piece of information they had on file that was actually a mistake on their part and I ended up hanging up. It feels nearly impossible to just accomplish the actual task of getting the information they have mailed to me so I can do my taxes myself. 
Anyway, I'll try and then I'll either take a stab at doing my taxes myself or taking them somewhere. 

Is there anything I can do right now to halt the process? For instance it says on the assessment that I can file an objection online or something. Has anyone done that and what does that accomplish? Does it give me time to do them myself?


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

If you cant find a family member, friend & the CRA or goverment agency is not any help & you need help. If I was in your shoes I would try a church & ask them if they could help you figure out what to do. One of thier members might help you with your taxes.They like to help people & it would give them a chance to help someone.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

JohnnyT said:


> ... I thought I would get all the information they had on file with the assessments but it just looks like final numbers. I'm not even sure what jobs I held in each year. So I guess I need to do my own taxes now and see if their assessment is accurate before I figure out what to do ...


There is a good chance that CRA's assessment will be high. 

When they issue an assessment, it is based on the info that was sent to them plus the deductions that everyone gets. If you have any tax deductible expenses such as a safety deposit box, medical expenses, tools expenses or other deductions such as charitable donations, these are not included which makes the $12K incorrect.




JohnnyT said:


> ... Can I get this information online now that I've got the assessments? ...


The CRA "my account" online access is supposed to provide more info than the notice of assessment (NOA), which provides summary numbers.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/myaccount/




JohnnyT said:


> ... If anyone knows how CRA does these assessments of delinquent filers and can shed some light on the process I'd like to hear it. I'm curious to know if they intentionally leave out any operations that would work out in your favor and if so which ones?


They run the numbers based on what they have and what everyone is allowed. They don't leave anything out (unless they make a mistake) but most of the deductions come from receipts or slips that they won't have or be aware of (ex. medical expenses).

They send you the assessment and the clock starts ticking for the payment and the late payment penalties.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/pymnts/n-flng-eng.html
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/pay-day-/beware-tax-penalties-cra-151904395.html


If you call them and explain that you need what they have on file as well as time, they usually work something out.

Even if you can't pay your taxes, talking to them and arranging a payment schedule is the best way to go. The penalty for being silent and not arranging a payment schedule is usually a lot more than if a schedule is arranged.

http://www.taxpayersadvocate.ca/wik...oney_to_the_CRA_but_can't_pay,_what_can_I_do? 




JohnnyT said:


> ... And also what's the best solution for someone who is going to be unable to pay $12,000 or make payments for at least a few months (should that turn out to be close to accurate) and does not want a frozen bank account or interest adding more and more to the debt.


From CRA's web site at URL http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/ncm-tx/ntrst/menu-eng.html:



> If you owe tax for 2012 and do not file your return for 2012 on time, we will charge you a late-filing penalty. The penalty is 5% of your 2012 balance owing, plus 1% of your balance owing for each full month that your return is late, to a maximum of 12 months.
> 
> If we charged a late-filing penalty on your return for 2009, 2010, or 2011 your late-filing penalty for 2012 may be 10% of your 2012 balance owing, plus 2% of your 2012 balance owing for each full month that your return is late, to a maximum of 20 months.
> 
> ...



Bottom line is the first step is to talk to CRA and the second step is to get slips & info that you can to file the returns.


Cheers


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank you Lonewolf. I will definitely try and find someone. 


Eclectic12 in one post you've cleared up pretty much everything. Thanks!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

JohnnyT said:


> Eclectic12 in one post you've cleared up pretty much everything. Thanks!


No problem.

I forgot to mention that when they did similar to me many years ago, there were a several letters asking for the specific returns to be be filed and finally they sent the assessment with a warning that I needed to update the return if I disagreed, with the owing amount interest as well as the penalties started.

Another suggestion is to start brainstorming as many sources of info that you can check as possible. I asked CRA to mail to me copies of what they had, which the person I was talking to said they would do. I'm not sure if it was CRA or Canada Post but I never received the info. Fortunately, by that time I'd signed up for electronic records with my financial institutions so that just about everything I needed was available online, in PDF format.

Also, you might find this link helpful:
http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail.asp?faq_id=4000150


Cheers


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## JohnnyT (Nov 29, 2012)

Eclectic12 said:


> No problem.
> I asked CRA to mail to me copies of what they had, which the person I was talking to said they would do. I'm not sure if it was CRA or Canada Post but I never received the info.


 That is really half the battle. I have enough trouble with stuff like that but it's so much worse because I've been around long enough to know that even if I do try to take care of this and extend the proverbial olive branch I'm likely just going to end up with twice as much work and frustration. Too many things these days are run in an impersonal manner where they play the odds and the only people who get fair treatment are those who fight for it. The telecom companies work that way. They create a climate where mistakes are made in their favor and invite people to call in to an overcrowded and incompetent customer service center knowing that many people will either hang up and pay rather then wait 20 minutes or else give up in frustration after talking to a completely incompetent customer service representative who's only objective is to convince you the bill is accurate or else come up with an excuse to delay resolving the issue. 
I don't know much about CRA but I'm not holding my breath that they'll be overly helpful. Maybe I'm wrong. 

In this case I didn't file the taxes so some might say I shouldn't complain but the reality is that it's so hard and so much of a headache anyone prone to frustration isn't going to want to bother. 
Either way, sometimes you need to talk to someone who's been through it and will actually understand what you're going through in order to get meaningful answers.
Cheers!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

JohnnyT said:


> I have enough trouble with stuff like that but it's so much worse because I've been around long enough to know that even if I do try to take care of this and extend the proverbial olive branch I'm likely just going to end up with twice as much work and frustration ... I don't know much about CRA but I'm not holding my breath ...


If you are blowing off steam - fine. I've done this myself at times. :biggrin:


The danger is that if this thinking creeps in while talking to CRA - at best, you might settle for less than CRA is willing to offer and at worst, the wrong comment or reaction could burn up any good will the person you are talking to was willing to give. I've seen too many people let their thinking affect their words/actions so that they kill any chance of getting what they wanted. So be careful to stay focussed on the facts, what the challenges are and what is workable.


As for CRA - unless the way you present yourself & what you want rubs them the wrong way, I don't see any reason they won't discuss a reasonable schedule, like they did for me and others here on CMF. It's not like they discovered your hidden Swiss bank account with millions in it! :chuncky:


The flip side of the coin is that the earlier you start - the earlier you will be done. Like breathing or eating or getting a tooth pulled - it's almost impossible to avoid so why drag out the process by dreading day after day instead of starting?




JohnnyT said:


> That is really half the battle ... but the reality is that it's so hard and so much of a headache anyone prone to frustration isn't going to want to bother.


At the same time, don't let yourself lose perspective. 

The current assessment plus filing the outstanding returns to hopefully reduce what is owed is the immediate task. At the end of the day - 80% of the work is that you don't have the slips to make filing returns manageable. I write this not to depress you but to remind you that even if everything goes peachy smooth for the immediate task - there is also the second task of making sure you are collecting the needed info to make future tax returns easier.

This is a task that if ignored, has the potential to keep on giving problems, year after year in the future. Without making some decision about what slips or info needs to be collected, how it will kept so that it is easily available, who will fill out future tax returns and what is a workable system for you - no much is going to change going forward.


From what you've described - the main challenge is not having the needed information easily at hand. So any effort that avoids this stress and/or work will be well worth it. (Not to mention profitable if you ensure you are taking advantage of all the tax deductions available to you!) If it helps, think of it as a game to make sure you pay the minimum amount.




JohnnyT said:


> Either way, sometimes you need to talk to someone who's been through it and will actually understand what you're going through in order to get meaningful answers.


I understand the work & stress of trying to patchwork something out of almost no information. 

The first bit of good news is that if you present yourself reasonably well, my experience is that CRA with be flexible. 
The second is that no matter how bad it look looks, starting is the hardest part.


Cheers


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

JohnnyT

Best of luck getting everything settled. I dont know anyone that like doing taxes. I think after you get everything settled your going to have a lot of stress & frustration removed from your life.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I was tardy submitting my quarterly GST filings. They finally made an arbitrary assessment to get my attention. After that, I shifted to annual filings after taxes were due as this simplified the work for me. They were very flexible but just were being hassled by their superiors to get filers current.


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