# EV vehicles and news



## sags (May 15, 2010)

A thread to discuss all the new models by all manufacturers, and other developments in EV vehicles.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Fast charges every 50 miles on the US Interstate highways, with this joint effort with service centres.









General Motors will build a network of EV fast chargers at Pilot travel centers along U.S. highways


GM and EVgo will install EV fast chargers at 500 Pilot and Flying J locations along U.S. highways, enabling coast-to-coast travel.




www.cnbc.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wow.....that is a nice looking vehicle. Unfortunately, I have no access to home charge an EV vehicle yet.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Another EV announcement in Ontario, which is rapidly becoming a major EV economic hub.









Trudeau announces deal for new electric-vehicle battery component plant in Ontario


Ottawa and Ontario have reached a deal with a global materials technology and recycling group to build a new battery componentfacility in the province's Loyalist Township that will supply parts for electric vehicles.




www.ctvnews.ca


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The automotive industry ratings and Youtube reviews are excellent for the Ford Mustang Mach-E.

_The Mustang Mach-E replaced the Tesla Model 3 as Consumer Reports’ Top Pick in February 2022. It was named the Top Car in the Automobile Association of America (AAA) Car Guide in May. Car and Driver awarded it the magazine’s first EV of the Year award in June 2021.

It was named the Utility of the Year at the 2021 North American Car and Truck of the Year awards — one of the most prestigious awards in the automotive industry._









Ford's Mustang Mach-E electric crossover is a hit with industry insiders — that could help it take on Tesla


Ford's first real attempt at an electric vehicle has been quite a hit with critics.




www.cnbc.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The GM CAMI plant in Ingersoll, Ontario will soon begin the first production of EV delivery cargo vans.

Production will ramp up to 3 full shifts. It is the first "full assembly" EV plant in Canada.









GM's CAMI Plant Will Switch to EV Production Sooner


GM will move the Chevrolet Equinox out and bring the BrightDrop electric EV600 delivery cargo van in sooner than expected at Ingersoll’s CAMI plant. BrightDrop is GM’s new venture in light commercial vehicles. And according to the manufacturer, it aims to bring zero-emission solutions to the...




www.guideautoweb.com


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Until someone makes a good low price sub-compact EV with reasonable range I'll be sitting on the sidelines for a new EV purchase.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Wow.....that is a nice looking vehicle. Unfortunately, I have no access to home charge an EV vehicle yet.


Talk to your electric company, maybe you can get 220v to your household!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We rent a townhouse with the parking lot in front of the house and the landlord will have to put in the chargers. 

Since we get a lot of news in Ontario about EVs with a steady stream of announcements, I am interested to hear what is happening in the rest of Canada.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Well there you go ... talk to your landlord and say you'll be wanting a charger for your new GM EV.


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

Until just about every manufacture makes 1-2 vehicles in the 30-40k price bracket, EV's will never take off like people think they will. Until the charging network becomes much larger, EV's will never take off like people think they will. We are 8-10 years from EV prime time.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There are some pretty slick looking EV models coming out, and I have to wonder why they couldn't have put that much thought into design of ICE vehicles.

I think you are right on the time line though, and wonder if some of the automakers are getting ahead of themselves and will swing into full production only to end up with a lot of unsold vehicles. Maybe future bargains there in unsold inventory.

I heard today that Tesla sells 1 out every 3 of their cars to people in California, a bunch more in Texas and Florida. It appears their EV sales are heavily concentrated in warm weather climates, and Tesla sales have declined in 29 other US states.

When the CAMI plant assembled the original Suzuki Sidekicks and GM Tracker vehicles, all of the production went to California because they weren't popular anywhere else. The security guards at the GM warehouse used to escort the recycling to Hamilton and drove a GM Tracker following the trucks.......and blew all over the road on windy days. They eventually refused to drive them at all. A buddy of mine bought 2 of them used for "bush trucks" during black fly season.

They were tall and narrow and got buffeted pretty hard in the wind. Lots of fun on the back trails and logging roads though.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> There are some pretty slick looking EV models coming out


Sadly no ... there are not many good EV (or PHEV) vehicles. Sure hope this changes a few years down the road.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

cainvest said:


> Sadly no ... there are not many good EV (or PHEV) vehicles. Sure hope this changes a few years down the road.


You don't like the Hyundai EV6 or Ioniq 5?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Until someone makes a good low price sub-compact EV with reasonable range I'll be sitting on the sidelines for a new EV purchase.


You can pick up a used Nissan Leaf pretty cheap. They don't have great range yet.

Not sure how cheap it needs to be, if you're saving $2000/year on energy cost.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> I heard today that Tesla sells 1 out every 3 of their cars to people in California, a bunch more in Texas and Florida. It appears their EV sales are heavily concentrated in warm weather climates, and Tesla sales have declined in 29 other US states.


Source this. I highly doubt it. I don't like Trump-style "I'm hearing..." statements.

Norway is a huge market for Tesla, and it's much colder than the US.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> You can pick up a used Nissan Leaf pretty cheap. They don't have great range yet.


Read up on the story of the guy who tried to get his leaf battery replaced.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

like_to_retire said:


> You don't like the Hyundai EV6 or Ioniq 5?


Not at $50K I don't.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Not sure how cheap it needs to be, if you're saving $2000/year on energy cost.


Certainly not saving $2k year vs my TDI.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Certainly not saving $2k year vs my TDI.


With diesel at $2/L?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> With diesel at $2/L?


Yup, even with prices this high.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I guess you drive a lot less than the average car owner.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Source this. I highly doubt it. I don't like Trump-style "I'm hearing..." statements.
> 
> Norway is a huge market for Tesla, and it's much colder than the US.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547530373244112898


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> I guess you drive a lot less than the average car owner.


Probably be around the average this year as I'm driving a bit less and cycling more.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

andrewf said:


> Source this. I highly doubt it. I don't like Trump-style "I'm hearing..." statements.
> 
> Norway is a huge market for Tesla, and it's much colder than the US.


Hmm, Norway is certainly colder than California but it is a relatively mild climate. The reason Teslas have sold so well there is ICE vehicles are heavily taxed - EVs avoid the 25% VAT and other taxes and fees applied to ICE. Effectively a massive subsidy. It was cheaper to buy a Tesla than a Honda Accord for awhile. Norway also gives EVs lower tolls, parking fees, insurance and lower financing rates.

Norway also only has a population of about 5 million so even though 50% of car sales are EVs, it does not equate to a large number of vehicles. Especially since many Norwegians do not own vehicles. I believe the car ownership rate is about 50% versus someplace like Canada at about 80+%. The number of electric cars is only about 650,000(includes hybrids). But still better than Canada at about 300,000 - mostly in Que and BC.

The market in Norway is changing and EV sales are slowing IIRC. They use Oil and gas revenues to pay for the tax breaks given on EVs.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547530373244112898


Losing share and declining sales are very different things. I knew not to take that claim at face value.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Probably be around the average this year as I'm driving a bit less and cycling more.


Avg distance at avg economy at average of $2/L is around $4k per year.


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## AlwaysLearning (Dec 8, 2017)

Check out Fisker (www.fiskerinc.com, fsr) They have the Ocean built by Magna (Magna also has a 6% stake in the company) rolling off the line in November. For future compact with long range look at the Pear...

I reserved a place in line for the Ocean but not willing to pay the price for the Ocean One right now... Looking at the Ultra when available.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Nice......interesting to see different auto models being developed. The SUVs will be popular,and the Ford pickup is getting excellent reviews.

I think a two seat E-roadster would be pretty cool. It would be like driving a go cart with a jet engine.........


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Avg distance at avg economy at average of $2/L is around $4k per year.


TDI is getting about 5.2L/100km, far better than average.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I find it interesting how companies are using the rules for mobility scooters to turn them from basically a motorized wheelchair to scooters that look like a motorcycle or a small car. I think we will see a lot new innovation on how people transport themselves around.

Anything classified as a mobility scooter....requires no license, no insurance, no helmet, and legally ride on sidewalks......and they can clip right along.

The innovators are going to keep the regulators busy keeping up.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> ...the Ford pickup is getting excellent reviews.


Just don't plan to tow anything far with it. IIRC TFL only got 1 mile per 1% of battery.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Oh really..........not much good for farmers or construction then.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Avg distance at avg economy at average of $2/L is around $4k per year.


That's weird, using average CDN data points I get $2705/year.


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

Big news for people in the north. Yellowknife to High Level, AB is 700km. Currently 2 very run down and possibly not open for whatever reason gas stations in between. 









NWT receives cash toward dozens of new EV charging stations by 2024


Ottawa is giving the NWT cash to help build charging stations between Yellowknife and Alberta. But charging isn't the only obstacle to widespread EV adoption.




cabinradio.ca


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MK7GTI said:


> Big news for people in the north. Yellowknife to High Level, AB is 700km. Currently 2 very run down and possibly not open for whatever reason gas stations in between.


Odd, google maps shows a number of gas stations on or very near to the hwy ...


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

cainvest said:


> Odd, google maps shows a number of gas stations on or very near to the hwy ...


Fort Providence and Enterprise are the only two options available for regular traffic. The others(only 2 I believe?) are for transport trucks and service equipment. Hay River is 40km NE of Enterprise but 80km round trip for gas is less than ideal.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Looks like Fort Providence has three gas stations alone, a Petro-Can, a Shell and one might be trucks only, not sure. Still, more than maybe just "two run down stations" on the entire route right?


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

cainvest said:


> Looks like Fort Providence has three gas stations alone, a Petro-Can, a Shell and one might be trucks only, not sure. Still, more than maybe just "two run down stations" on the entire route right?


People don't drive into Fort Providence for reasons I wont mention. Actually no, there are two run down gas stations in that 700km stretch. I've made the drive south and back dozens of times.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yikes…..


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Shoddy construction work by weekend warriors and fly by night handymen is nothing new.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MK7GTI said:


> People don't drive into Fort Providence for reasons I wont mention. Actually no, there are two run down gas stations in that 700km stretch. I've made the drive south and back dozens of times.


So I gather not a place you want to be stuck for a while recharging your EV either.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The CITY story demonstrates that charging infrastructure has been an afterthought in the transition to EV story.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549181368558559232
Don't judge EV on high carbon footprint for next 150 years

Of course, EVs has been around 180 years ago, before gas-powered car, but who cares about facts


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I was watching a live feed from Venice Beach, California the other day and was struck at how many people get around on some kind of EV unit.

While we think of EVs largely as full size cars or trucks, the reality is the EV universe is almost unlimited.

I think a lot of people will be "getting around" without the need of a full size vehicle or public transportation in the future.

Governments will have to be more receptive to e-transporation models of all types though.

Some bylaw restrictions about not being able to ride on sidewalks or trails make no sense at all.

I don't care what our city bylaws say......I have no intention of riding on the roads with anything that isn't a full size vehicle.

I will just pay the fine if they can catch me.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> Some bylaw restrictions about not being able to ride on sidewalks or trails make no sense at all.


They make sense when you find out that many who ride these battery powered devices (scooters, bikes, etc) do so at breakneck and dangerous speeds on the sidewalks and trails. It's a danger to both walkers and regular bicyclists.

ltr


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

damian13ster said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1549181368558559232
> Don't judge EV on high carbon footprint for next 150 years
> 
> Of course, EVs has been around 180 years ago, before gas-powered car, but who cares about facts


EVs don't have a high carbon footprint. They generally pay back their embodied carbon in the first 10-20% of their typical lifespan.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Takes about 30,000km to make up for increased greenhouse gas emissions in manufacturing process.
There is another problem though - mining practices. Sadly they are environmental disaster due to contamination and freshwater usage, not CO2 emissions. Neither the above, nor the 30,000km account for that.
EVs are not the golden ticket to stopping environmental apocalypse like EU and tax recipients want you to believe.
Technology simply isn't there yet.
Until technology gets there, artificially increasing the demand will have disastrous effect on environment - you will see it in third world countries though and not in San Francisco so people don't care


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

^ Very interesting. If this is accurate, why is there not more transparency?


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Gator13 said:


> ^ Very interesting. If this is accurate, why is there not more transparency?


Money. Look at the taxes, subsidies, unions. Why do you think there is such a hate for nuclear power? - just follow the massive amount of taxpayer money going into subsidies for wind/solar panel


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Instead of engaging in handwringing concern trolling about the impact of EV batteries, maybe we should address the specific concerns about mineral extraction instead of justifying why we continue burning carcinogenic and smog producing fossil fuels.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Gator13 said:


> ^ Very interesting. If this is accurate, why is there not more transparency?


30k km to make up for the greenhouse delta for manufacturing. In other words about 2 - 3 years of regular driving, so unless you plan on buying a new car on an annual basis, I don't think it's exactly a solid case against EVs. And this has been well-known that the initial footprint due to manufacturing is higher because of the batteries, so that's not exactly a secret.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

andrewf said:


> Instead of engaging in handwringing concern trolling about the impact of EV batteries, maybe we should address the specific concerns about mineral extraction instead of justifying why we continue burning carcinogenic and smog producing fossil fuels.


Undoubtedly.
Until that is addressed though, the artificial lift in demand is hurtful.
Because that just forces carcinogenic substances into drinking water in 3rd world countries - hardly a better option than CO2 released, but then again. That happens in 3rd world countries so voters don't give a ****.

Until better technology is developed in which damaging mineral extraction is not necessary to such extent - the EVs aren't better for the planet overall. Might be better for downtown SF, but Chileans are paying the price


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Looks like there is a semi-solid battery on its way: NIO reaffirms 150-kWh solid-state battery for delivery in Q4, with flexible upgrades for users

Probably need more testing to see its longetivity, but with a 360 Wh/kg energy density vs 125 Wh/kg for LPF, it can reduce weight, or increase range.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

damian13ster said:


> .
> 
> 
> Until better technology is developed in which damaging mineral extraction is not necessary to such extent - the EVs aren't better for the planet overall. Might be better for downtown SF, but Chileans are paying the price


What about all the people passing the price for fossil fuel extraction and combustion?

Your conclusion is not really based in evidence.


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