# Traveling solo



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

As everybody knows  , I'm at early retirement stage . My wife is still working and has only 4 weeks vacation + 3 personal days that is not enough . She is advising me to travel solo..... never done it before, so curious if somebody here travelling solo? I want to go for 1 week in November.
After original research i consider options below:
1. Cuba, Varadero , never been there and I like that it's close to Havana that I'd like to visit
2. Cuba, Santa Maria (visited this place maybe 15 times)
3. Madrid
4. Lisbon
Last 2 have rather cheap air fares for November.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Well I enjoy travelling solo or with my wife. It all depends on the individual and there is no way to know if you will enjoy it obviously, until you have tried it. So I would say, sure, give it a try and see what happens. 

When you travel solo, there is no need to consider anyone else's needs or interests. That may sound selfish and it is, but selfish is not actually a negative word, we are just used to using it that way. Being free to do exactly what you want to do at any given moment in time without having to consider anyone else is a form of freedom. Travelling with a companion on the other hand allows you to 'share' things that matter to you. It might be just a beautiful sunset or scenery for example which you see together and enjoy a shared moment.

Where to try it is another matter. That all depends on your interests and you have said nothing about those at all. I certainly never travel to anywhere based on air fare costs other than that they are affordable. I don't fly to somewhere because the air fare is 'rather cheap' if it is not a place that interests me. For example, I personally have no interest whatsoever in Cuba, but to each his own.

I think it would be fair to say that the more interesting you find a place, the more likely you are to enjoy the trip. So concentrate on asking yourself just what it is you would like to do in a place rather than the cost of getting there.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Gibor, from what I remember you like good food. Cuba, the food is not good. It can be okay/serviceable, but never good. If I had to pick from your list I would choose Portugal.


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## Larry800 (Jun 11, 2018)

On a cruise you will have to pay 1.5 to 2 times the cost of each person in a double occupancy cabin. Even though you will eat less food than 2 people. In a hotel room the price for 1 or 2 people in a room is usually the same.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Gibor, from what I remember you like good food. Cuba, the food is not good. It can be okay/serviceable, but never good. If I had to pick from your list I would choose Portugal.


I like good food, good drinks , good beaches, attractive cities and fun . Agree, food at Cuba is mediocre. On the other hand all other things are rather good. Also, I've never been to Havana and should be interesting.... 
AI resorts, IMHO, should be better for solo traveller..... I just cannot imagine going alone to restaurant or eating alone at rented place


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Wow, gibor, I'm jealous. I'd just love to go spend a few weeks by the ocean but I'm stuck working at least for the next few months.

I do a lot of solo travel and it's great. I don't think you can go wrong with any of those destinations... all-inclusive is really fun, worth doing.

Are you starting your travel from Canada or Europe?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

From Canada .... just 2 days ago came back from Ireland and it was a blast .
James, let's go together  or any other volunteers?!, adults only secluded resort with excellent reviews, the cheapest prices for 1 person in room in Nov :
nov 5, 6 - $1065
nov 28, 29 - $1085

Imho, late Nov is better than early Nov, as rainy season ends in Nov


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

It’s really a personality thing. I prefer not to travel alone because I am extremely extroverted. That being said, I used to travel all the time for work by myself, and would make the best of it by taking in the sites and touring myself. The first time I ate alone, it was odd, it took me a couple of times of take out in my hotel. Then I just did it, and it wasn’t too bad. I would pick a pace where I could people watch and I was pretty good making conversation. 

I toured Europe by myself, I was on a tour and loved it. I met so many people along the way. However, my preference is still to travel with someone.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gibor365 said:


> James, let's go together  or any other volunteers?!


I can't make it, I already used all my travel time.

Are you considering any other destinations?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I can't make it, I already used all my travel time.
> 
> Are you considering any other destinations?


see post #1 

our favorite place in Cuba is Cayo Santa Maria , but I'd like to go to Varadero mostly because I want to go to Havana or 1 day...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Some of my best travelling experiences have been meeting other travelers in locations you mentioned, and I find you always meet people when travelling solo. If all the locals are speaking another language, then it's easy to talk to other travelers who speak English etc. Time to find a retirement hobby and then you'll base your vacations on the best seasons and locations for that hobby. Bonus you are guaranteed to meet others there for the same hobby. If you're retired then it's not like you need a relaxing vacation away from work. If you like beaches maybe take up surfing or something and meet other surfers. Worst case sit at the bar eat tapas and talk to the bartender


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I did research on tripadvisor for best resorts for solo travellers.... Decided to go to Be Live Adults Only Los Cactus, Oct 29 for $915


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Is your wife testing you


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

lonewolf :) said:


> Is your wife testing you


How she can test me?! She won't be there . She trusts me and trust her.... btw she has business trip to Vegas in October


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)




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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

november is Free Melania month


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Free Melania for a month? Count on me...lol


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Huh, it appears there are no independent travellers who have responsed. From my perspective which certainly seems to be a minority one here on this subject, package vacations, cruises, AI and places like the one you have chosen gibor365 are to be avoided at all costs by the independent traveller. 

If you have this *opportunity* to try solo travel with your wife's blessing, why not try something new and not something you would do with your wife. What I mean is going to that resort you have picked is probably somewhere you would go as a couple. The only thing 'new' about it will be an empty space on the other side of the bed. It's not 'new', it's just 'half' of what you would normally do.

We don't learn by staying in our comfort zone as much as possible, we learn by going outside of our comfort zone. 
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/leon-logothetis/traveling-out-of-your-com_b_8399490.html 
Read some other links on travelling outside your comfort.

Pack a change of clothes and your toothbrush in a small bag, book a flight to a place that interests you and take it from there. Step off the plane with no hotel booked and see what happens. Dare to have an adventure gibor365. To be an adventure requires two things, risk and the unknown. Do you really think a week in Los Cactus is going to be an adventure? You have an opportunity, use it.

If budget is an issue you could try flying to (as an example) to Cabo San Lucas for around $500 return and then stay in a hostel. Ever stayed in one? A lot different than an AI.
I like the hostel on this list, called the Cabo Inn. Used to be a brothel. https://www.hostelworld.com/findabed.php/ChosenCity.Cabo-San-Lucas/ChosenCountry.Mexico That should make for some interesting dinner party conversation when you return home.

Like good food, become an expert on Los Cabos tacos. https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2012-06-18/best-tacos-cabo-san-lucas-mexcian-food
Two tacos, two dollars CAD. Tell your dinner party guests about eating in El Ahorcado (the 'hangman') and how much you liked the beef tongue in mustard sauce. Or Asi y Asado where they have 14 kinds of tacos including the 'Vampiros', yup that means vampire. Not your average Taco Bell in Canada is it. https://www.chowhound.com/food-news/5101/tacos-vampiros/

Go on gibor365, I dare you.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

I spent most of my working life traveling alone on business throughout Canada mainly, but also some trips to the US, Europe, the Caribbean and Hawaii, so I’m quite comfortable. I’m lucky however, to have a wife who is a perfect travel companion for me, so it’s much more fun to be with her.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I did a one month trip to southern africa solo. Had a great time. Vegas too, for a conference. Amsterdam. Vienna, Miami as stopovers on work trips. I think an AI would be boring AF alone. Kind of depressing too with all the families and couples having fun together. Most AI places that cater to singles are catering to the singles that want 'to mingle' if-ya-know-what-i-mean. Or if they don't outwardly advertise it, cater to the gay crowd.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> If you have this opportunity to try solo travel with your wife's blessing, why not try something new and not something you would do with your wife. What I mean is going to that resort you have picked is probably somewhere you would go as a couple. The only thing 'new' about it will be an empty space on the other side of the bed. It's not 'new', it's just 'half' of what you would normally do.



Maybe you are right, maybe wrong . I've never travelled alone in my life (except when I immigrated from USSR ). So, only an experience will be new for me... I also picked this resort as I want to go to Havana.... Havana is not Madrid, but still should be interesting. I doubt that I'd go with my wife to Varadero at all.... usually we're going to Europe or more "fun" places at Caribbean 



> Kind of depressing too with all the families and couples having fun together.


 With "free" buzz?! Don't think so . I'm easy going guy and have a lot of friends among Cuban resorts stuff , I also speak a bit Spanish that make communication more fun. Imagine that on one of the Cuban resorts, I met resort employee who studied in my University in Siberia in mid 80's! We were drinking and talking for hours.... 

in any case, if I won't like it, next time will do different trip.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

I'm likely going to be in a similar situation as the missus won't retire until about 5 years after me. However, I probably try to limit my solo travel as my wife has a lot of vacation time and I a few friends with also a lot of vacation time or have a lot of flexibility (they have their own business). 

I've traveled solo a few times due to work trips. Some were during extended assignments overseas and some were a few days to a week+ tacked onto the end of a business trip. I typically do not _prefer_ to travel alone as I like the companionship to chat about the trip and stuff in general. Sure, you get more flexibility in doing what you want to do but everyone I've traveled with has been pretty accommodating so it's generally not an issue for me. 

I think it also really helps if you can meet people easily, which isn't my forte. While I don't mind chatting with people in the right situation, I hate "forcing" conversations. However, it is fantastic when it just clicks. 
I'm kind jealous of my friend who can easily just strike up a natural conversation with someone beside him almost anywhere.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

gibor365 said:


> Maybe you are right, maybe wrong . I've never travelled alone in my life (except when I immigrated from USSR ). So, only an experience will be new for me... I also picked this resort as I want to go to Havana.... Havana is not Madrid, but still should be interesting. I doubt that I'd go with my wife to Varadero at all.... usually we're going to Europe or more "fun" places at Caribbean
> 
> With "free" buzz?! Don't think so . I'm easy going guy and have a lot of friends among Cuban resorts stuff , I also speak a bit Spanish that make communication more fun. Imagine that on one of the Cuban resorts, I met resort employee who studied in my University in Siberia in mid 80's! We were drinking and talking for hours....
> 
> in any case, if I won't like it, next time will do different trip.


One of the things I found helpful when being able to travel alone, is being to eat alone in a restaurant. For me, that was one of my biggest mental blocks. I don't know why. I didn't do it at home, and I always ordered take out when I first started travelling by myself. I recommend going to a restaurant at home, (if you don't already do this), and order a nice meal, and people watch. 

I think drinking alone is much easier on a resort. So I am sure you don't need to practice that at home.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Plugging Along said:


> One of the things I found helpful when being able to travel alone, is being to eat alone in a restaurant. For me, that was one of my biggest mental blocks. I don't know why. I didn't do it at home, and I always ordered take out when I first started travelling by myself. I recommend going to a restaurant at home, (if you don't already do this), and order a nice meal, and people watch.
> 
> I think drinking alone is much easier on a resort. So I am sure you don't need to practice that at home.


Well first, we need to acknowledge that this is generally a woman's issue more often than it is a man's issue. As a man, I cannot speak to the point from a woman's perspective obviously. But since the OP is a man, I can speak to that in regards to eating alone. The short answer is that most men don't find it a problem at all.

For those that do, you can find lots of sites with advice on how to eat alone. Here are a couple.
http://thehappypassport.com/solo-travel-challenge-eat-alone/

https://grrrltraveler.com/solo-travel-tips-eating-alone/

While I personally have no problem with eating alone, I do have a couple of things I tend to do in that regard. First, I don't go to Michelin starred restaurants on my own. I find the more upmarket the restaurant is, the more 'stuffy' the atmosphere and that makes being relaxed more difficult if you are on your own. Second, I look for a restaurant/bar combination and *always* sit at the bar.

When I travel, I want to meet local people and learn about the culture etc. I cannot do that if I *isolate* myself at a table. It's like being on a desert island by yourself. I sit at the bar, order a drink and relax. Hopefully, I get into conversation with someone sitting beside me or with the bartender. I see it as an opportunity to meet people, not as an 'eating alone' ordeal to be suffered through. When I am ready to eat something, I order it at the bar and often eat it there or if they insist, I move to a table while I eat and then return to the bar when I am finished. Sometimes, I end up at a table with a person who was sitting beside me at the bar and is also 'eating alone'.

If you are staying more than just one night in a place, I try to find a bar/restaurant that I like on my first day and then frequent that same place every night for dinner. It only takes 2-3 nights before you become a 'local' to a degree and if you are doing it right, are greeted by name when you come in and your favourite drink is placed in front of you without you having to say anything. That doesn't happen if you pick a different restaurant every night. When you are on a first name basis with the bartender and wait person, you will no longer feel 'alone' when you are there. 

What's more, they will generally watch out for you if you are a single woman who doesn't want to be hit on. You're their customer, they won't tolerate anyone driving you away when you are a 'regular'. Having lived in a popular tourist destination, I know that bar/restaurant staff see a 'regular' as anyone who comes in on a third night in a row. They are used to a high 1-2 week turnover of people obviously and their view is based on that reality. 

One thing is for sure, no one can grow their comfort zone in regards to eating alone, by eating in their room. Like anything else, the more you do it, the more comfortable you become at doing it and the more experienced you become at not actually being 'alone' at all.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

On a somewhat related note to eating alone, is my favourite way of finding a room in a new place. This is for small villages, not cities. I tend to avoid cities when I travel, much preferring small villages as places to visit.

Suppose I arrive in a small village sometime in the afternoon. I find a bar/restaurant that looks interesting and take a seat at the bar. I order a drink, wait a few minutes and then start a conversation with the bartender or wait person. Exchange some general conversation and then ask about a place to stay in the village for a few days and mention a few criteria. Almost always, they will suggest a place or quite often, will make a phone call. Next thing you know, someone shows up to take you to see their little 'pension'/room that they have available for rent.

You go and see it and if it is suitable, agree on a price. You left your bag at the bar/restaurant and so return to the bar/restaurant where you started from. Time for another drink after that. Then you head back to your room with your bag, unpack and take a short siesta. (You do this with your bag so that you are less committed and can simply say something like, 'sorry, this room isn't what I was looking for' if that's the case. If that happens you return to the bar/restaurant and start over.) Come dinner time, you return to what is now 'your local' bar/restaurant for dinner. You probably know the owner's first name by now and are greeted as a friend on arrival. A pre-dinner drink, dinner and an after dinner drink, round out your day and it's off to your room for a good night's sleep.

Tomorrow is another day and after breakfast, off you go to explore the area. Perhaps visiting somewhere someone you met last night suggested you visit. Sometime in the late afternoon, you return to your village, have a drink at your bar/restaurant where you are greeted by name and then go to your room for a short siesta before dinner. See how a pattern is beginning to emerge? By the third day, you are a known quantity and a 'regular'.

It is much harder to fit in to a place like this if you are staying in a big hotel in the city. There, you are just another tourist.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I can imagine you LTA, spending a lot of time drinking alone at a bar in some small foreign village. Then traveling alone to the next village bar. Bon Voyage!


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I can imagine you LTA, spending a lot of time drinking alone at a bar in some small foreign village. Then traveling alone to the next village bar. Bon Voyage!


Obviously, you missed the point OMO. I never drink alone in a bar beyond my first drink in a new bar. But then, I don't sit there and attempt to insult others. 

Hmm, isn't OMO a laundry detergent?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Obviously.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I tend to avoid cities when I travel, much preferring small villages as places to visit.


 I agree. I'm the same.... I always book accommodation outside of big cities. It's much more interesting. Also much easier to get out to see different attractions (we always rent a car in Europe). It's much cheaper and tourist trap free . For example , I really enjoyed some family run places in small towns of Czech republic, amazing food and ... beer and 2-3 times cheaper than in Prague .



> I can imagine you LTA, spending a lot of time drinking alone at a bar in some small foreign village.


 Why not?! My wife likes drinking too (part of her job title ) , and when abroad , we always trying to drink local stuff that you cannot buy here . I just came from Ireland and believe me, Guiness there and here is two big differences


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

_I think drinking alone is much easier on a resort._ You never drink alone at resort . In the worst case, at 3 or 4 am,you drink with bartender or receptionist , esp in Cuba , they have our, Russian, mentality ...
I travelled half a world , but Cuba experience is different.... where else could you meet bartenders with PhD in math or history?!


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

As i will be solo cruising i enjoyed reading this thread. I particularly enjoyed the articles on solo dining as i was not looking forward to it. The article reminded me how great it is to play on your phone while eating and i'll definitely get an internet package which i was initially feeling to cheap to ge t.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

latebuyer said:


> As i will be solo cruising i enjoyed reading this thread. I particularly enjoyed the articles on solo dining as i was not looking forward to it. The article reminded me how great it is to play on your phone while eating and i'll definitely get an internet package which i was initially feeling to cheap to ge t.


Oh boy, my idea of a bad idea latebuyer is to sit alone at a table and bury your head in your smartphone. I don't see that as a way to make dining alone enjoyable, only as a way to make it bearable. 

I would rather look for ways to make dining enjoyable and that to me usually means conversation with others, even if it is only the bartender/waiter. As I wrote her earlier, I usually sit at the bar and strike up a conversation with someone whenever possible. It gets easier, the more you try doing it. But sticking your head in your smartphone will never change anything.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

I enjoy surfing the net so i'll know i enjoy it. I know the site suggested reading but that seems obtrusive. I wouldn't think of going to the bar but I could try it out. I'm an introvert and enjoy spending time myself. This doesn't make me a bad person.

Has anyone been on the Royal Caribbean? I'm not sure what to expect at dinner if they would sit me with someone or sit me alone. Hence the internet.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

latebuyer said:


> I enjoy surfing the net so i'll know i enjoy it. I know the site suggested reading but that seems obtrusive. I wouldn't think of going to the bar but I could try it out. I'm an introvert and enjoy spending time myself. This doesn't make me a bad person.
> 
> Has anyone been on the Royal Caribbean? I'm not sure what to expect at dinner if they would sit me with someone or sit me alone. Hence the internet.


I have been on Royal Caribbean, not as a solo, we were with a large family, so always together. However, I remember that there were people put with out people. 

Nothing wrong with being an introvert, but if travelling solo is something you want to do, then as LTA suggested take the opportunity to push yourself out of your comfort zone. I have had some really interesting conversation with people while alone. Perhaps set some stretch limits for yourself, like not picking up your phone for the first 45 minutes, smiling or a little wave/nod as people walk by, try to make small talk with anyone else that seems to be travelling alone, or if you hear something interesting. 

As an extreme extrovert, I have no problems making conversation. Yet, it made me nervous when I travelled for work by myself, and when I went to Europe by myself. Then someone told me, everyone feels nervous, so most people are relieved when someone else strikes up the conversation.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks. Yes I found out with Royal Caribbean you can request a set time and they will sit you with other people. Any other royal caribbean tips?

Just a comment though that people don't seem to get the distinction between being shy and being an introvert. You can be an introvert without being shy and just prefer spending time yourself. I could probable manage a 7 day cruise without much people interaction, I just happen to have a hang up about eating by myself.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

latebuyer said:


> Thanks. Yes I found out with Royal Caribbean you can request a set time and they will sit you with other people. Any other royal caribbean tips?
> 
> Just a comment though that people don't seem to get the distinction between being shy and being an introvert. You can be an introvert without being shy and just prefer spending time yourself. I could probable manage a 7 day cruise without much people interaction, I just happen to have a hang up about eating by myself.


 I do know the differences between introvesion and shy. I misunderstood your post, I thought you were lookilooking for tips for travelling solo in general not just eating. I am quite fine eating in by myself now in a restaurant. I usually will just dost act myself, do my work, read or go on the phone. I have also found sitt No in a nic coffee shop people watching really helped me get over it. That may also be that I got some quiet fm the little people in my house, so I learned to treasure more alone time. 

Tips on royal or cruising in general? 

Royal has a very cool wave rider. Hard as heck but fun.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Here is a useful website for solo travellers.
https://solotravelerworld.com

I travel solo all the time and I love it. I am cautious about safety, but I love the independence. I’m an introvert, and comfortable in my own skin, but sometimes I will strike up a conversation with a local or a fellow traveller just for the heck of it. I am travelling now and just finished a wonderful meal at a nice restaurant. It’s been a great evening!


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

Fwiw ... CAA includes a "solo travellers club" ... http://caaneo.ca/travel/solo-traveller-club


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I have never traveled solo however I am seriously considering doing a solo escorted tour (16-21 days) to India later in the yer Planned to do it last year but events intervened. DW has no interest in going. Looking at OAT or Gate 1 tours but leaning towards OAT since they do a great deal of solo travel and their price matrix is based on solo travel. Both often have late booking offers at very attractive rates.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

As someone who lived in a very busy tourist area for years, a word of warning regarding 'group solo travel' companies and tours. One major company I am familiar with puts groups of solos together from the UK. Funnily enough, the name of that company is 'Solo's Holiday Ltd.' How imaginative is that!

So they put together a package vacation to say a 'sun and sand' destination and avoid 'single supplements' by pairing up two solo travellers in a double room and as part of a larger group of solo travellers. Whether a company does this 2 in a room or separate rooms really isn't that important, it's just part of what this particular company happens to do. The important part is what kind of group of solo travellers do you end up spending your time with.

I expect I will get some grief from some for what is to follow but please try not to shoot the messenger.

These 'Solo's' groups were a bit of a laughing point with local tourist businesses. I had a friend who owned a bar that happened to be next door to a hotel that they stayed at. A couple of times each week, the Tour Company Rep would drag them in to this bar 'clubbing' after dinner. The only reason my friend accepted them was because the bar was fairly big and it helped make it look busy (busy looking bars always attract more 'walking by' customers than empty looking bars). Few of them ever bought more than 1 drink, so they weren't exactly good customers for a bar. 

What you saw if you happened to be in the bar when they were there, was a group of 10-15 solo people acting as if they were solo. One with a nose in a book, one with a smartphone in their face, one staring at the wall, one who looked like they were dressed for a formal ball, one picking pimples on their face, etc. etc. I've never seen such a number of socially inept people all in one place at one time anywhere else.

Now, I am not saying every single (solo) traveller is a social misfit but I am saying that many such groups do contain a larger than normal number of such social misfits and IF you join such a group you may want to set your expectations as to the 'group' accordingly. 

I agree that there is indeed a difference between someone who is simply an introvert vs. someone who is shy but also think you need to add to that someone who is a social misfit. They do exist and they do go on vacations with 'solo groups'. I'm sorry if that sounds 'unkind' but I just tend to tell it like it is. I should add that I saw multiple groups fro this company over a period of several years and they were consistently groups I would not have wanted to be a part of. I should also add that they were groups of all solo travellers, not mixed groups with some couples, families and some solos.

If you think about it, someone who tends to be 'solo' is still likely to act as someone who is solo whether they join a group or not. Spending a couple of weeks in the company of such a group every day is not something I would want to do. My advice is if you want to travel solo, then travel SOLO.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I am not too worried about joining an OAT seniors solo tour for India.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> ...
> If you think about it, someone who tends to be 'solo' is still likely to act as someone who is solo whether they join a group or not. Spending a couple of weeks in the company of such a group every day is not something I would want to do. My advice is if you want to travel solo, then travel SOLO.


 ... I think the whole point of travelling as a "solo" in a "group" setting is due to costs and for safety-reasons. 

And in regards to:


> What you saw if you happened to be in the bar when they were there, was a group of 10-15 solo people acting as if they were solo. One with a nose in a book, one with a smartphone in their face, one staring at the wall, one who looked like they were dressed for a formal ball, one picking pimples on their face, etc. etc. I've never seen such a number of socially inept people all in one place at one time anywhere else.


 ... no different than a bunch (maybe not as a "group" per se) of riders on the TTC, seen everyday. Okay, the one dressed in formal ball would be going to a Halloween party. This scenario doesn't bother me as much as a "group" of employees all staring down at their smartphones (or previously their blackberry, presumably having to need to answer all those work emails asap!!!!) during a Xmas lunch outing or supposedly a conference session.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

It's just a warning based on first hand observation. I would not want to be travelling in such a group as those I saw. 

Interesting thought Beaver101 regarding 'cost and safety'. I would never have considered either of them in asking myself, 'do you want to travel as part of a group.' I can see how someone might think those were important factors and believe that being in a group would provide some answer to them I guess. Whether it actually does or not is another question. I don't even get past the word 'group' before answering NO.

I personally would never travel in a group, I value my independence far too much for that. I've travelled solo quite a lot as well as with my wife. Being a couple allows you to 'share' things while travelling solo allows you to do exactly as you wish without having to take anyone else's preferences into consideration. My wife for example wouldn't stay in quite a few of the places I have stayed in as a solo traveller. ie. a hostel or a tent.

I suppose if I think about it from a cost and safety perspective at all, my answer would be that I don't believe either is enhanced by being part of a group. Anywhere a group tour will take you I believe I can go as cheaply or cheaper than since I am not paying a tour company (middle man) who has to add a profit to the cost. As for safety, being in a group just makes you a bigger target.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

ian said:


> I am not too worried about joining an OAT seniors solo tour for India.


Reviews seem quite polarized ian. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/overseas_adventure.html

I don't put a lot of faith in other people's reviews of anything but I do look at them sometimes and when I do, I look for consistency and try reading between the lines for those who rate something at the max or minimum. This company seems to get either max or minimum in their reviews with little in between. There isn't any consistency in the reviews at all. 

I read one comment with a max rating where a woman writes, "When I was struck with altitude sickness in Peru our guide could not have been more helpful. He did exactly what was necessary to get me the proper treatment so that I could recover quickly and rejoin the tour in less than a half hour." That's hilarious. 

One review I did take as credible was this one:

"My husband and I have traveled with OAT 11 times. We love their tours- especially the small size and the superb guides. Their air service, however, is mediocre at best. We have just had a most unpleasant experience with them on our travel home from Australia. This trip, I think, is the first time we have used their service and I would hesitate before ever using their air service again. Below I highlight just two of our problems as a warning about OAT air service. Our poor opinion of OAT air service started months ago. I didn’t keep the details because I did not anticipate future problems. For some reason I called OAT air services and found out that the time had changed between our arrival in The United States and making a very tight departure home. The OAT person told me that if I wanted to keep abreast of these changes I needed to be in contact with the airline directly.

Our most serious complaint occurred when we were in Australia. A little over a week before our return flight, we received an email from our superb Australian guide saying there were issues with our flight. The message she sent on to us said the only flight available for us to get home on our booked date was an ECONOMY flight back that night even though we had booked BUSINESS class tickets. The Bangkok office which handled bookings was closed for the weekend and an extra day for a national holiday. Our guide then decided not to wait three days for making a change but worked with the home office in Australia and then a special contact in New York to rebook us on another BUSINESS flight home with a stop in Melbourne on the day we originally requested.

When I got home I wrote and talked to OAT. I learned most disturbing information. SEATS MAY BE AVAILABLE ON THE FLIGHT YOU WANT BUT OAT DOES NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THESE SEATS. The carrier determines what access OAT has depending on OAT’s arrangement with the carrier. This also means that you can not get on the phone and deal directly with the airline; you must go thru OAT. There is more to this story; bottom line - Beware of unpleasant consequences if you book air travel with OAT."
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Seems like an intelligent review by someone who has had significant experience with them but warns to stay away from booking your air travel with them. This one to me taken in concert with all the bad reviews that mostly seem to be caused by similar problems with air travel, not the tours themselves, seems credible. It sounds to me like if things go as planned, no problem but if they don't serious hassle may ensue.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Good advice LTA. When we did a VBT bike and barge trip down the Moselle from Metz. By avoiding the included air travel, we were able to take in Luxembourg and Cologne in the same timeframe.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

That air advice is solid. Our experience with many cruises, 20 or more, is that their air may or may not be more attractive in price or in routing. We have only used it twice.

Another issue with including air with a package is fare code. You never know what you will be getting, quite often it will be consolidator bottom of the barrel fare code. This fare code may determine how a flight interruption is handled and how you are re-assigned by the airline. You will only find out when there is an issue. A few years ago we had an interrupted flight home from Puerto Rico. Winter storm. The airline scheduled out the following day. We were fortunate to have a higher priority fare code AND have carry on only. They put us on a plane leaving for SFO and then connected us home. Had we had a consolidator ticket we would not have been able to get the last two seats on that flight out of DC.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> It's just a warning based on first hand observation. I would not want to be travelling *in such a group as those I saw*.


 ... but then you don't get to "pick" those people. 




> I personally would never travel in a group, I value my independence far too much for that. I've travelled solo quite a lot as well as with my wife. Being a couple allows you to 'share' things while travelling solo allows you to do exactly as you wish without having to take anyone else's preferences into consideration. *My wife for example wouldn't stay in quite a few of the places I have stayed in as a solo traveller.* ie. a hostel or a tent.


 ... I would think travelling with your wife is considered travelling as a "group". 

And there you have that some folks would not want to travel completely solo because they are not comfortable being on their own completely. If they have questions or need guidance, who do they turn to ask? Just ask your wife if she would ever consider travelling "just by herself". No hubby and no buddy (work). 



> I suppose if I think about it from a cost and safety perspective at all, my answer would be that I don't believe either is enhanced by being part of a group. Anywhere a group tour will take you I believe I can go as cheaply or cheaper than since I am not paying a tour company (middle man) who has to add a profit to the cost.


 ... well, that's part of the cost but that cost can be spread amongst the members of the group. 



> As for safety, being in a group just makes you a bigger target.


 ... I'm not following, bigger target from what? Mugging? Terrorism? I guess for a guy, especially who is 6'plus tall, weighing 250lbs with biceps a foot across, no worries from anything. Travelling truly solo is the way to travel. No nagging wife, no slow down, no need to answer to anyone. It is truly independence and freedom.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ...Travelling truly solo is the way to travel. No nagging wife, no slow down, no need to answer to anyone. It is truly independence and freedom.


It's a preference, not 'the' way to travel Beaver101. As I wrote, I do both and both have benefits/drawbacks. Solo provides 'freedom' yes, but travelling with a companion provides opportunities for 'sharing' experiences. There is no single 'best way'. You may prefer solo travel but I doubt very much there has never been a moment when you thought, 'I wish X was here to share this moment with me.' 

All I would say is that in GENERAL, if having to choose between travelling entirely solo or as part of a group of strangers, I would choose to travel solo. 

I think that it is more a question of 'comfort zone' than anything. People may feel more comfortable as part of a group rather than being totally solo. But the problem with that is you can't grow your comfort zone by always staying within it.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Okee, dokee. :encouragement:


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