# CDC goes maskless for fully vaccinated



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

When allowed by law, no masks required says CDC ...









COVID-19 Vaccination


COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




www.cdc.gov


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ CDC are supposedly the health "experts". Note the 2nd bullet:



> ...​_> Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, *state, local, *tribal, or territorial laws, *rules, and regulations, ...*_​​​


... so if your local Costco requires masks to be worn and you point out the CDC "rules", you STILL cannot enter without a mask. Confusing enough? LOL.​


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so if your local Costco requires masks to be worn and you point out the CDC "rules", you STILL cannot enter without a mask. Confusing enough? LOL.


Remember, CDC makes "recommendations", not rules or laws.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ CDC are supposedly the health "experts". Note the 2nd bullet:
> 
> 
> ... so if your local Costco requires masks to be worn and you point out the CDC "rules", you STILL cannot enter without a mask. Confusing enough? LOL.​


I don't find it confusing at all. CDC are the experts and make the health RECOMMENDATION, but they don't make the laws. It's up government to make the laws. These laws are also the minimum required. Private business can choose a higher standard if it makes sense and does not contravene health measures.

I know many organization right now that their safety requirements are higher than what is the minimum requirement. For example, my mom's home has been acting in a higher standard much earlier than anything CDC or any recommended. They had people isolating and restricting visitors almost 2 weeks before any lock down or anything official. Now, they are opening the restrictions in our province to allow more visitors and my mom's home is choosing to go slower than what is legally allowed. People need to keep in mind these recommendations are the minimum required. I posted another thread about my friends dad in ICU after being fully vaccinated.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> I don't find it confusing at all. CDC are the experts and make the health RECOMMENDATION, but they don't make the laws. It's up government to make the laws. These laws are also the minimum required. Private business can choose a higher standard if it makes sense and does not contravene health measures.
> ...


 ... you as a Canadian might not find it confusing at all but for some Americans, it is VERY confusing for them (plus some Canadians, hopefully a few). 

I don't have time ATM to dig out the latest example but there is a dispute between the CDC "Recommendations" versus a state's versus a local business requirement for masks. And yes, it involved a Costco. Imagine if you were a customer there and there was no mask rule, just how do you know who's been vaccinated or not or able to potentially pass the virus on? Maybe you don't care as long as you're vaccinated, IDK.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... you as a Canadian might not find it confusing at all but for some Americans, it is VERY confusing for them (plus some Canadians, hopefully a few).
> 
> I don't have time ATM to dig out the latest example but there is a dispute between the CDC "Recommendations" versus a state's versus a local business requirement for masks. And yes, it involved a Costco. Imagine if you were a customer there and there was no mask rule, just how do you know who's been vaccinated or not or able to potentially pass the virus on? Maybe you don't care as long as you're vaccinated, IDK.


I have to constantly remind myself the average iq is about 100, and that means 50% are lower than that. 

The vaccination argument was used in my mom's home. Some people want to visit their loved ones in their rooms (which is understandable). However, the home cannot restrict based on who is vaccinated, not everyone has their own room, so it was a vote was taken by the the families, and decided that we would not allow people to visit in rooms.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... you as a Canadian might not find it confusing at all but for some Americans, it is VERY confusing for them (plus some Canadians, hopefully a few).


I don't think it's a question of confusing, I think it is more of a question, "how can I interpret the recommendations to best benefit me individually".


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ CDC are supposedly the health "experts". Note the 2nd bullet:
> 
> 
> ... so if your local Costco requires masks to be worn and you point out the CDC "rules", you STILL cannot enter without a mask. Confusing enough? LOL.​


Confusing if you want it to be confusing.A good incentive to get anti-maskrrs vaccinated


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

zinfit said:


> Confusing if you want it to be confusing.A good incentive to get anti-maskrrs vaccinated


 ... I was just being polite over there with the "confusion" claim.

CDC's "recommendations" now does nothing for anti-maskers other than encouraging them ... to become anti-vaxxers because they never believed in this Covid- thing. The only incentive for them now with the CDC's announcement is their claim that they've always been right about "no-mask" is/was necessary ... it's all in the heads of the mask-wearers.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I don't think it's a question of confusing, I think it is more of a question, "how can I interpret the recommendations to best benefit me individually".


 ... that question has always been the case but that recommendation is now an opportunity for those who still don't believe in the pandemic to make their case.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> I have to constantly remind myself the average iq is about 100, and that means 50% are lower than that.


 ... I don't have to go to that extent. The lack of common sense from that person already tells me something.



> The vaccination argument was used in my mom's home. Some people want to visit their loved ones in their rooms (which is understandable). However, the home cannot restrict based on who is vaccinated, not everyone has their own room, so it was a vote was taken by the the families, and decided that we would not allow people to visit in rooms.


 ... a senior's home (or the hospital) is an entirely different environment from that of the supermarket or the likes of Costco, Walmart or name-your-favourite-retailer. For one, those institutions know who is going in or going out these days. And there're severe controls in place to prevent a spread.

But at a retailer, how do you track who is going in & out, still infected, vaccinated or not? You don't, so without the mask, no amount of distancings is going to prevent the virus from spreading via aerosols and/or surface contaminations.


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

This is a step in the right direction. I've been fully vaccinated since mid March but yet I need to wear a mask to go into stores? Pretty stupid.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MK7GTI said:


> I've been fully vaccinated since mid March but yet I need to wear a mask to go into stores?


Till the numbers drop to near zero ... yes.
Or till nobody left wants the vaccine anymore ... that works too.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> When allowed by law, no masks required says CDC ...


It should be noted that this advice is for Americans, and is relevant only to the US. The guidance does not transfer over to Canada. We have different levels of vaccination, we have a very small number of fully vaccinated people, and we still have very serious outbreaks in the country.

*The CDC guidance is irrelevant to Canadians.*



MK7GTI said:


> This is a step in the right direction. I've been fully vaccinated since mid March but yet I need to wear a mask to go into stores? Pretty stupid.


Yes you need to continue wearing a mask.

Requiring masks for everyone is the correct public health policy decision at the moment. We still have very serious outbreaks happening (most recently in BC, AB, MB, ON) and with the situation as bad as it is right now, requiring that everyone wears masks is the right thing to do. It reduces the chances of unnecessary spread.

There are many good reasons why you still need to wear a mask. If you think it's stupid, this shows that you don't understand the factors in community disease spread, which is exactly why we can't just trust people to decide on an individual basis.

Things will change if the # of cases and outbreaks reduces, and there's large % of people *fully* vaccinated. The US is almost there, but Canada is not yet.

It does not matter if just @MK7GTI @Eder @zinfit are fully vaccinated. There are other people in society, and public health guidelines consider everyone's health & safety.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

MK7GTI said:


> This is a step in the right direction. I've been fully vaccinated since mid March but yet I need to wear a mask to go into stores? Pretty stupid.


Our family is half-vaccinated and we think that a long time ago Canada should lift those useless lockdowns, stay-at-home orders etc



> It does not matter if just @MK7GTI @Eder @zinfit are fully vaccinated.


 Why the hell it doesn't matter?! They are fully vaccinated and cannot be more vaccinated! Do you advise that they should suffer until everyone will be fully vaccinated?! But it won't happen any way.... in the best scenario only up to 60% of population is going to be vaccinated



> *The CDC guidance is irrelevant to Canadians.*


 Yeah, sure ....Canada is extremely specific and different country LOL ... Usually Health Canada approve vaccines 1-2 weeks after CDC does (kinda pretend doing work). The only vaccine Health Canada approved before CDC, was AZ (1-2 weeks after EU approved ) and it caused a big mess...when guidance was changed 5-6 times


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... that question has always been the case but that recommendation is now an opportunity for those who still don't believe in the pandemic to make their case.


Facts don't matter to them. Only if it makes their case. For instance, when the CDC recommended wearing masks, they will make a big fuss over the fact that it's only a recommendation, so they shouldn't have to wear masks. Now that CDC gives the recommendation that vaccinated people don't have to wear masks, they'll make a big fuss that CDC recommends it.

Despite all this, it's the owners of the shop that decide the policy and if it is in-line with the law, then law enforcement can enforce. Of course, using the honour system is just ridiculous as there isn't much in the way of official/standardized documentation that states whether someone is vaccinated... as even then, there's a business of selling fake vaccination documents. Fake Vaccine Cards On The Rise: CVS Employee Arrested For Stealing Them


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

gibor365 said:


> Do you advise that they should suffer until everyone will be fully vaccinated?!


I certainly do and I'll gladly wait for the time in the not so distant future.

Wait until the numbers drop to near zero or nobody wants the vaccine shot anymore.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

cainvest said:


> I certainly do and I'll gladly wait for the time in the not so distant future.
> 
> Wait until the numbers drop to near zero or nobody wants the vaccine shot anymore.


Even if nobody would like to take a vaccine anymore, there will be new cases and new death (like with flu), so you think we should continue masks/lockdown madness for eternity ?!


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

gibor365 said:


> Even if nobody would like to take a vaccine anymore, there will be new cases and new death (like with flu), so you think we should continue masks/lockdown madness for eternity ?!


Of course not ... last summer we had really low numbers without any vaccines! So if the vaccines are really that good it should be no problem dropping those numbers waaaaay down right? At the very least, take the pressure off the hospitals so they can get back to scheduling needed procedures.


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

cainvest said:


> Till the numbers drop to near zero ... yes.
> Or till nobody left wants the vaccine anymore ... that works too.


Numbers will not go near zero for years. I'm will to bet 30% of the population wont get the vaccine. So what is your plan of attack then? It's time for people to stop listening to our energy sucking useless politicians and so called public health experts. They have been telling people to listen to the science for 15 months now. Well, the science has said that once you are fully vaccinated you have very little to be worried about. It has also said that transmission of the virus outside is damn near impossible yet we still have these 'experts' recommending you wear a mask outside. The level of fear for a good chunk of the population is still high thanks to the media. It's sad really.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> gibor365 said:
> Do you advise that they should suffer until everyone will be fully vaccinated?!


 ... talk about the most self-centered post. WAAAH!!!! The only "they" are suffering and everyone else ain't.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MK7GTI said:


> Numbers will not go near zero for years. I'm will to bet 30% of the population wont get the vaccine. So what is your plan of attack then? It's time for people to stop listening to our energy sucking useless politicians and so called public health experts. They have been telling people to listen to the science for 15 months now. Well, the science has said that once you are fully vaccinated you have very little to be worried about. It has also said that transmission of the virus outside is damn near impossible yet we still have these 'experts' recommending you wear a mask outside. The level of fear for a good chunk of the population is still high thanks to the media. It's sad really.


 ... how about the earlier of when the "Canadian" Fed and Provincial Public Health Experts say so or a declaration of the pandemic is over? 

As for the "science" you're referring to, no need to provide back up.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

gibor365 said:


> Even if nobody would like to take a vaccine anymore, there will be new cases and new death (like with flu), so you think we should *continue masks/lockdown madness for eternity ?!*


 ... a possibility if the ICUs continue to be overloaded.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MK7GTI said:


> Numbers will not go near zero for years. I'm will to bet 30% of the population wont get the vaccine. So what is your plan of attack then?


We'll see soon enough how many will get vaccinated when the number of first shots peak out. We're running about 6k new cases a day, definitely not the time to drop our restrictions.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> We'll see soon enough how many will get vaccinated when the number of first shots peak out. We're running about 6k new cases a day, definitely not the time to drop our restrictions.


Once there is a large % of fully vaccinated people, and we see cases hover around low levels, we can relax restrictions.

Currently there is no way we can stop wearing masks. If you start telling people "fully vaccinated people don't need masks", here is what would happen

1. partially vaccinated people would incorrectly stop wearing masks
2. people who hate all restrictions would stop wearing masks
3. ALL people would change their behaviours and relax about covid

Group 1 is misinterpreting the rules. Group 2 will continue spreading and catching covid. Group 3 can, just through behaviour, increase COVID risk everywhere in society.

This is why it's a country by country situation. In the US, with higher % of population fully vaccinated, you might be able to get away with some of this (even then it might be a very bad idea for them). In Canada we absolutely cannot risk it right now.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

The difference that US is still a free country , in Canada we got authoritarian system


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

gibor365 said:


> The difference that US is still a free country , in Canada we got authoritarian system


 ... so when are you planning to leave for the USA since it's alot better there than here, Canada. In your opinion of course.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

gibor365 said:


> The difference that US is still a free country , in Canada we got authoritarian system


I guess that means you're not going to vote for Trudeau again right? 

I do think Canada has done a better job protecting it's people from covid though.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

cainvest said:


> I guess that means you're not going to vote for Trudeau again right?
> 
> I do think Canada has done a better job protecting it's people from covid though.


Never in my life voted for Trudeau and Liberal party .... those destroyed every country they are getting power


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

The US could vaccinate 100% of their population tomorrow and supply the rest of the world with vaccines, and I still wouldn’t consider their pandemic response a success.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> The US could vaccinate 100% of their population tomorrow and supply the rest of the world with vaccines, and I still wouldn’t consider their pandemic response a success


Yeah sometimes it's easy to forget the big picture stats here. Canada has protected its population much better than our "peer" countries.

The US death rate is 1,807 per million pop and the UK is similar. Horrendous.
Europe averages 1,500 deaths per million pop.

Canadian death rate is 658 per million pop. That's *one third of the American deaths* and about 1/2 of the European deaths.

Canada has done well so far. We have to stay focused and keep taking this seriously, but we're doing OK.

The big picture goal here is to minimize deaths (duh).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The US is still seeing a similar daily rate of new per capita death as Canada, despite their advantage in vaccinations.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> The US is still seeing a similar daily rate of new per capita death as Canada, despite their advantage in vaccinations.


Let's also keep in mind that Israel, even with their amazing early vaccination, still has an overall death rate of 695 deaths per 1M pop.

More people have died in Israel than in Canada. More people died in Russia too (and that's not even accounting for the strong likelihood their government is suppressing the true numbers).

Throughout the pandemic, Israel, America and Russia were all more dangerous places to be. More deaths.

@gibor365 is truly lucky to be living in Canada, where the federal and provincial governments have kept him safe from harm.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> lucky to be living in Canada, where the federal and provincial governments have kept him safe from harm.


Yeah, right! In Israel everyone my age got fully vaccinated back in February! Majority of Covid cases/death were in Arab and Ultra Ortodox communities who was very reluctant to get vaccine....
Last week Israel has on average 20 new case per day 

I also for more than 1 year wasn't able to see in person my family doctor and 3 other specialists whom I was visiting every 4-6 month.... I'm not even talking about my mom...

Also, Canada just cares about Covid numbers (fake news is our specialty), but the number of death from Covid is higher (and will be significantly higher) than from Covid (where average age of deaths is 85 ! and majority of them are extremely sick already)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> The US is still seeing a similar daily rate of new per capita death as Canada, despite their advantage in vaccinations.


It's not similar even close...!
For last week Canada has 1.5 higher new cases number that US per capita. US 98 cases per 1M, Canada 145, and Israel 2.6! (55 times less than in Canada)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

....And Israel fully vaccinated 58.9% of the population and 62.8% got at least one dose.....so, I don't get what 75% our local jokers are talking about...LOL

P.S. The funny part that poor Palestine has death rate per 1M exactly like in Canada and less than in Israel  Probably Allah is saving them LOL


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I have to keep reminding myself of the response from the bottom of post #4786 from MrMatt. That's one part that I'm in total agreement from MrMatt.



> .. you might want to convince the CMF member in post #4783
> 
> _Not worth the energy, _*he's partisan hack, no reasoning with him.*


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

In my honest opinion, I think CDC's "guidelines" announcement of going maskless is just a play with people's lives. And now Quebec's hurry-up to return to business-as-usual:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-announcing-lifting-of-covid-measures-1.6030812



> _Quebec's premier says life will start returning to normal gradually, with the curfew lifting across the province on May 28 and masks no longer mandatory in most situations by the end of August.
> 
> "This is a big day. A big step," François Legault said with a smile on Tuesday, not hiding his excitement as he announced his long-awaited plan to scale back public health restrictions.
> 
> ...


We'll see just how successful this lift-up by keeping an eye out on the ICU admissions. Good luck.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Yeah sometimes it's easy to forget the big picture stats here. Canada has protected its population much better than our "peer" countries.
> 
> *The US death rate is 1,807 per million pop and the UK is similar. Horrendous.*
> Europe averages 1,500 deaths per million pop.
> ...


 ... the bolded part was already evidenced last year (2020) early on with the mass graves burials over at Hart's Island. The USA a "first world-country"with first world mass burial sites - who knew?!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> It's not similar even close...!
> For last week Canada has 1.5 higher new cases number that US per capita. US 98 cases per 1M, Canada 145, and Israel 2.6! (55 times less than in Canada)


Deaths, gibor. Deaths. US had ~3x the overall death rate, but now they are down to keeping pace with Canada for new deaths. They had 733 deaths yesterday, Canada had 35 (so about half the rate). Two days ago was 384 US, 35 Canada.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Deaths, gibor. Deaths. US had ~3x the overall death rate, but now they are down to keeping pace with Canada for new deaths. They had 733 deaths yesterday, Canada had 35 (so about half the rate). Two days ago was 384 US, 35 Canada.


andrewf, by many reports ive read the deaths from lockdowns (that we have over 14 months) is higher than deaths from Covid.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

gibor365 said:


> andrewf, by many reports ive read the deaths from lockdowns (that we have over 14 months) is higher than deaths from Covid.


There was lots of speculation about suicides, etc. Not borne out by evidence. Suicide is down or flat since the pandemic began.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

gibor365 said:


> andrewf, by many reports ive read the deaths from lockdowns (that we have over 14 months) is higher than deaths from Covid.


Not sure what reports (twitter?) you are talking about but here is an article on a study ...
https://sunnybrook.ca/media/item.asp?c=1&i=2306&f=covid-19-suicide-study

Related to Canada ...
_The available Canadian data showed statistically significant decreases in suicide rates of 20 per cent in Alberta and 24 per cent in British Columbia as well as a 19 per cent reduction in Manitoba that approached significance. _


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Was listening to a podcast that stated the PCR test new standard was to test NONE vaccinated @ a setting of 40 with the vaccinated the setting @ 26. Of course the higher setting will produce more false positives as well as a higher death count. Breaking news CNN sky diver forgets parachute jumps from plane dies of Covid.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> There was lots of speculation about suicides, etc. Not borne out by evidence. Suicide is down or flat since the pandemic began.


Many office workers are reporting quite a bit of satisfaction, not having to schlep into the office each morning, or go through brutal commutes. On the other hand of course for some it's been very difficult working at home, when there are children to look after. A mixed bag for sure and very individual.

I have kept in touch with friends and colleagues in both the US & Canada, have talked with them throughout the pandemic and more than half have told me that they really like the new lifestyle. They mostly don't want to return to the office. A couple of them have been able to move to locations they like more and are closer to their families than they used to be.


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