# Obligations to tenant who moved out early, paid in full, stole an appliance



## Amira (Aug 6, 2013)

Hello, hope someone can give me advice as I can't seem to find the answer elsewhere.

My tenant gave me notice to end his month-to-month lease in mid-June. He and I discussed that his notice period took him to Aug 31. Rent paid in full so that's good.

He vacated the premises on July 31 giving me 12 hours notice - i.e. sent me an email July 30 evening and was gone July 31 before my agent could get to the house.

Microwave missing and some damage to walls and flooring.

I don't know where he's moved to. I've followed up with him via email to say I inspected the house after he vacated and want him to return the microwave. (I have no proof he took it because I forgot to list it as an included appliance in the lease, even though I did so with previous tenants. Teaches me the importance of precision.) He denied taking the microwave and replied that he may have moved out but I still need to give him advance notice before entering the premises since his lease isn't technically over. I laughed at this - but he couldn't possibly be right, could he?

More important issue - when giving notice, he had asked that I refund him partial rent if I get a new tenant before Aug 31. The current situation makes me loath to do this; however, am I obligated to do so?

Thanks in advance.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I would say that you need full access in order to repair the damage, clean up the place and re-rent it. If he does not cooperate, then wait until the lease is up. I think you are stuck on the microwave. Was there any damage deposit?


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I had a similar problem tenant. But once they are gone (nothing is there) there is no reason you cannot enter.

But in terms of the MW probably screwed there.

If you are in Ontario, if you do rent the unit early you are obligated to return the difference. Tenant must give 60 days notice, if they leave before that they are liable to pay until the end of the month which the 60 days covers. But if you rent before the 60 days are up, yes you must return the extra money. You cannot collect rent twice for the same period.

And this is another reason why I got out of the business.


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## Amira (Aug 6, 2013)

kcowan, the rental is in Ontario – illegal to collect a damage deposit so I’m on the hook for all clean-up expenses.

jamesbe, yes, the tenant took all his belongings when he left. Would the LTB agree I can therefore enter at will now?

I agree, no hope of resolution re: the microwave.

If I do get the place rented before Aug 31, am I allowed to allocate the rent refund toward the clean-up and damages? The tenant acknowledges responsibility for the damage but isn’t willing to offer compensation.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

At my previous landlord, they claimed that I stole this widget (forgot what it was) and I said, I never had it to begin with. We double-checked the list that we both signed off at beginning of lease and it was not in unit at time and they had no records of them bringing it in at all during the 4 years that I was there although I was supposed to get one (I gave up on it after a year). That checklist was there to protect both of us. It was an honest mistake by landlord but this stresses the need for the documentation. 

As soon as I was fully moved out and handed keys over to landlord before 60 days were up, they had free range to my place although I was still technically renting the place.

I did move out one month after giving 60 days notice and I was fortunate enough that they were able to re-rent my place and they gave me the difference.

This was in Ontario.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Amira, I don't know the nature of the damages, but you have to budget for wear and tear on a rental property. Minor wall and flooring damage is par for the course.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

Does the lease says that tenant is responsible for damages beyond normal wear and tear? That's your answer right there.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Doesn't really matter. You can't take it from the rent you have to get it from the tenant or talk to the board from what I understand.

In 99.999999% of the cases you just have to suck it up. Otherwise there is small claims.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Just buy a new microwave, or don't. You don't have to supply your tenant w one.

How bad was the wall and floor damage? 

Personally I would return a % of rent to the tenant if I found a tenant prior to Aug. 31st, but the chances of that happening are slim at this point.


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## Amira (Aug 6, 2013)

The lease says that damage caused by neglect or carelessness (what I interpret as beyond normal wear and tear) will require that the tenant provide reimbursement for repair costs.

Some of it is minor (holes in walls, damaged hardwood) but other stuff is not (damage to bathtub wall).

The microwave thing bugs me more than anything but nothing I can do there.

Confirmed with the Landlord-Tenant Board that because he paid the rent in full, he's still in possession of the unit, so I need to notify him before entering, but don't need permission to enter for showings. However, because they've vacated, I can't seek redress for damages through the Board; I have to go to small claims court for that.

Also found out the utilities were switched back to my name in advance, but again, the Board says they can't help since the tenants are no longer in residence. This would also have to be pursued through small claims.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Then take photos, notify tenant of when repairs are to be done, keep copies for yourself of everything. Show apartment as necessary. And decide if small claims court is worth it once you figure out what it will cost to do the repairs.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Amira said:


> Confirmed with the Landlord-Tenant Board that because he paid the rent in full, he's still in possession of the unit, so I need to notify him before entering, but don't need permission to enter for showings. However, because they've vacated, I can't seek redress for damages through the Board; I have to go to small claims court for that.


LOL
How dumb is that? So the guy doesn't live there but you have to notify you are entering. But you don't need permission to enter for showings... makes no sense really.

call the guy every hour of the day to tell him you are entering for a showing, then he'll tell you to stop calling him


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

^^^

What caught my eye was the part that the Board won't help with seeking damages once the person has moved out! When the heck else are you going to determine that there's damages? During an inspection that you're not allow to conduct while the tenant occupies???


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

jamesbe said:


> LOL
> How dumb is that? So the guy doesn't live there but you have to notify you are entering.


Seriously? He paid rent - he's still the tenant. The fact that he doesn't live there is irrelevant.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

Four Pillars said:


> Seriously? He paid rent - he's still the tenant. The fact that he doesn't live there is irrelevant.


^^This.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Actually what four pillar says is true but once a tenant has given notice, you are allowed to enter for showings to new potential tenants by trying to contact him. You do not have to make contact. (Email is great) there is no 24 hour notice period. Personally, I'd rent it for Sept 1 and no refund to them. 

If it is short notice or before the end of their lease, you'd be allowed to use the funds you have to "collect" The place is supposed to be broom clean, and obviously no damages. If you do the repairs yourself, you're allowed to claim only the materials and you're limited to actual recovery of damages that you have receipts for. If you use a company then their invoice is fully claimable. As the landlord your labour is free. You are also allowed to collect 

Even if there is no security deposit in Ontario, you would be allowed to deduct this out of their refund of last month's rent. It would be foolish to pay them then go to small claims to collect.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Microwave oven costs about $50 these days. Do you want to pursue this out of principle? It probably costs more just to spend on the filing fee in a small claim court. You don't have any written proof it was provided in the first place anyway. I would not waste hours of my time filing, sitting in court, and waiting.... all just for $50 worth. But that's me... Maybe you see things differently.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

$50? Damn I paid $800 for mine  lol Really depends on the MW now doesn't it.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

jamesbe said:


> $50? Damn I paid $800 for mine  lol Really depends on the MW now doesn't it.


I hope you are joking because no landlord would use top appliances for tenants. Walmart's MW starts at $44 and it's brand new. So I would say a used one is about $20-30....

http://www.walmart.ca/canada-estore...ner.jsp?inputId=32683&categoryName=Microwaves


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## Amira (Aug 6, 2013)

On balance, no, it doesn’t make sense to go to small claims. This was my first “bad tenant” experience, so initially my frustration was high enough to consider it but it isn’t really worth it in the end.

It would seem logical to take the damages out of the last month’s rent, but the Landlord-Tenant Board specifically said I am not allowed to do so; have to go to small claims for that.

The legal service they referred me to - Landlord Self Help 800-730-3218 - said I shouldn’t even make an attempt to repair the damages unless it requires immediate attention, that I should wait till the lease has expired (Sept 1). No rationale for this except “it’s best to do the bare minimum until the lease is up, or you can refund them what’s left of August and then do as you like.” However I don’t want to continue showing the house in its present condition (have taken pictures to document things) so I’ll schedule the repairs and inform the tenant accordingly. I’m beginning to understand why a number of newbie landlords like me choose to give up after a few years. I’ll stick it out until the pros (diversification of assets) stop outweighing the cons (RTA).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

On the other hand, were you paying the tenant interest on the last month's rent? If not, maybe that helps compensate you for the damage.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

You can't really expect a tenant to treat the place like their own, there will be damages. Hope for the best for the future. Just be happy the damages were minimal.

Out of curiosity, how often did you enter the unit to inspect it? And by that I mean did you do an annual check on the furnace, exterior windows, gutters, and have a look around while you were there. I find tenants keep the place in better shape when they know you aren't too far away, and are keeping an eye on the place.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If you think this was a "bad tenant", you ain't seen nothing yet...

You may not be cut out for this type of investing.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

He has to pay rent to the end of the notice period, however he's technically the tenant as long as he pays rent.
You agreed his tenancy ends on Aug31.

He could show up and sit in the apartment for all he wants. There is no requirement that he be physically present with property or on a regular basis to be a legitimate tenant.

He's the tenant, I'd put notices on the door if that is compliant with the law.
http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Law/STDPROD_078964.html


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> If you think this was a "bad tenant", you ain't seen nothing yet...
> 
> You may not be cut out for this type of investing.


+1

I am not sure what the OP is complaining about... most landlords are lucky if their tenants move out without any unpaid rents. Some have the misfortune to get deadbeat tenants refusing to pay and leave. If you have collected all the rents on time up to now, consider yourself lucky... and wish yourself the same luck with the next tenant.

You need to prepare to repaint the whole unit and patch up floor scratches and wall holes after each tenant anyway. It is impossible to expect someone to treat your house like theirs.


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