# Tipping God vs. your waitress



## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Applebee's waitress fired after posting receipt from Alois Bell, no-tip pastor



> A waitress at a St. Louis Applebee's lost her job for posting online the receipt upon which a pastor had declined to leave a tip, with a snarky note saying she gave God 10 percent.
> 
> After her dinner on Jan. 25, Pastor Alois Bell crossed out the automatic 18 percent tip charged for parties of more than eight. "I give God 10% why do you get 18," she wrote above her signature.
> 
> Employee Chelsea Welch — a colleague of the stiffed server — took a picture of the receipt and uploaded it to the online site Reddit. She subsequently lost her job, an Applebee's spokesman confirmed to TheSmokingGun.com, for violating a customer's privacy.


All sorts of stupidity all around. The Pastor for being ridiculous, Applebee's for charging 18% automatic (drives me nuts), the waitress for posting a customer's info online...but give Applebee's bonus stupidity points for how they've "responded" to the negative attention online. :hopelessness:

Applebee’s Overnight Social Media Meltdown: A Photo Essay



> Applebee’s fired the waitress in question, named Chelsea Welch. This created a fury of rage on the Internet, with social media users taking to their weapons of choice and lambasting away, thousands at a time, against the restaurant’s decisions. Numerous “Boycott Applebee’s” groups sprung up on Facebook, along with “Rehire Chelsea Welch” and other similar groups. Applebee’s website has a “What’s the Buzz” widget, that shows what people are saying on Twitter about the company. It’s been non-stop attacks, all publicly displayed on Applebee’s own page:
> 
> But it started to get interesting last night. Earlier in the day, around 3 pm, Applebee’s made a status updated about the controversy:


Let's just say if the waitress deserved to get fired, so does Applebee's entire PR team, starting with whoever is responsible for their social media.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

The article goes on to say ... "Bell told TheSmokingGun that she had left an 18 percent tip in cash, and that she was stunned by the publicity: "My heart is really broken. I've brought embarrassment to my church and ministry." Possibly a misunderstanding it seems ... well at least no military combat weapons involved ... so far.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

She was not obligated to give a tip at all...especially if the service was not up to par. A lot of restaurants assume a tip on the bill of 15 to 20% factored into the total amount of the meal and this is ridiculous.

I know that the servers are probably paid minimum wages and depend on tips..but for the restaurant to expect patrons to subsidize 
the servers low wages with mandantory high tips these days is gouging. She (the patron) was right in refusing to pay the 18% tip. 
The server, OTOH, had no business to take it public contravening her employment rules..so she/he deserved to be terminated.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

She probably gets better service from the waitress than god, so maybe the tip differential is deserved.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> She probably gets better service from the waitress than god, so maybe the tip differential is deserved.


It all depends on your outlook...the server provided food for sustenance her body...God provides the sustenance for her soul.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I read some other stuff and it said that the 18% charge isn't discretional. You can't choose not to pay it, that is the same as not paying for any of the other items. If you don't like the automatic gratuity, you have to go somewhere else. I do agree however, that the charge is rediculous. In my experience it means they can give me terrible service with large parties yet still get a fat tip.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

jcgd said:


> *I read some other stuff and it said that the 18% charge isn't discretional. You can't choose not to pay it, that is the same as not paying for any of the other items.* *If you don't like the automatic gratuity, you have to go somewhere else. * I do agree however, that the charge is rediculous. In my experience it means they can *give me terrible service with large parties yet still get a fat tip.*


When you go as a group, the tip for each patron is automatically added to the total bill, and the server expects that each patron of the party divide up the tip in equal
amounts amongst them along with their portion of the meal and tax applicable. This happens here in Canada as well. I used to go to a local Tex-Mex here (Lonestar)
with my work group and this is how they did it. One bill for the entire party and the 15% gratuity was included automatically and the server
mentioned that at the beginning to the group, so we were all advised.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

If parties of more then 8 are charged 18% just get seperate bills. I havent eaten @ a restaurant for years & most likely will never again. When ever I have eaten @ a restuarant in the past everyone @ the table asked for seperate bills. Mcdonalds does not have on thier bill an area to add a tip yet they are perhaps the most sucessfull restaurant ever.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

A Tempest in a Teapot
The customer actually paid the 18% tip.
The waitress that posted the copy of the bill had not served the table.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

kcowan said:


> A Tempest in a Teapot
> *The customer actually paid the 18% tip.*
> The waitress that posted the copy of the bill had not served the table.


lets analyze this a bit further..



> After her dinner on Jan. 25, Pastor Alois Bell* crossed out the automatic 18 percent tip charged for parties of more than eight*. "I give God 10% why do you get 18," she wrote above her signature.
> 
> Employee Chelsea Welch — *a colleague of the stiffed server* — took a picture of the receipt and uploaded it to the online site Reddit. She subsequently lost her job, an Applebee's spokesman confirmed to TheSmokingGun.com, for violating a customer's privacy.



1. customer crossed out the 18% and scribbled on the receipt. Customer paid bill minus 18% tip.
2. Employee (another waitress or cashier?) of the stiffed waitress took a picture of the receipt and posted in on a website.

So from those statements ..(of course I'm not a lawyer, but would like to play one on TV), it would appear to me 
that the customer actually refused to pay the tip, and the waitress was "stiffed" (denied) from getting a tip.

Now we get into the legalities of this issue.
1. Is the restaurant automatically allowed to charge 18% gratuity on a bill and refusal to pay this gratuity (out of principle..restaurant vs God) legal cause for the restaurant to come after the customer for partial payment?
2. Does the "stiffed" server have legal right to claim the 18% gratuity from their employer?
3. Does posting a receipt on a website constitute a violation of civil rights/privacy of the customer.
4. Should God intervene in this case and convinced the pastor to pay up to 10% of the original tip?


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

carverman said:


> lets analyze this a bit further..
> 1. customer crossed out the 18% and scribbled on the receipt. Customer paid bill minus 18% tip.
> 2. Employee (another waitress or cashier?) of the stiffed waitress took a picture of the receipt and posted in on a website.
> So from those statements ..(of course I'm not a lawyer, but would like to play one on TV), it would appear to me
> ...


What WOULD Jesus do?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

rikk said:


> What WOULD Jesus do?


I think he would refer it to a Higher Power. On the back of each $1 US bill the words "In God we trust" is there to convince us on who we should trust.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...qpvt=uS+dollar+bill+in+god+we+trust&FORM=IGRE


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

carverman said:


> I think he would refer it to a Higher Power. On the back of each $1 US bill the words "In God we trust" is there to convince us on who we should trust.
> 
> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...qpvt=uS+dollar+bill+in+god+we+trust&FORM=IGRE


So for the last supper ... fairly large group ... you're thinking he called home before making the reservation? And just to say, I'm done before I offend anyone ... enjoy the day


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

rikk said:


> What WOULD Jesus do?


Feed 5,000 with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish?


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

andrewf said:


> She probably gets better service from the waitress than god, so maybe the tip differential is deserved.


nailed it.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Nemo2 said:


> Feed 5,000 with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish?


Hmmm ... food for thought ... okokok ... off for major dental work ... putting a stop loss on my Trade O' The Day ... won't be posting the outcome (not risking the wrath of Tgal) ... another retirement benefit, carry over the dental coverage at $16.95/month ... nice.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

carverman said:


> lets analyze this a bit further..
> 1. customer crossed out the 18% and scribbled on the receipt. Customer paid bill minus 18% tip.


Not according to the Pastor. Paid tip in cash according to the claim.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

kcowan said:


> Not according to the Pastor. Paid tip in cash according to the claim.


It's pretty obvious that she is lying. Why would she go to all that trouble to be insulting and then give the tip anyway. Religious people aren't exactly known for their honesty either.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Well, she "gives to God" but she's the pastor. So I'm not really clear on what "giving to God" means in her case anyways.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The clergy tend to be those who most enthusiastically support 'giving to god'. They also enjoy spending god's money on his behalf.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> Well, she "gives to God" but she's the pastor. So I'm not really clear on what "giving to God" means in her case anyways.


It probably means tithing or 10% of what you make to God and his church. In the pastor's case, she was annoyed that she had to give more than
10% to the restaurant server in tips. 

Hmmm..idea just struck me..maybe I should make myself a pastor in the Community Money Forum church and request that all my CMF "followers" donate at least 10% of their wealth to me.:biggrin:


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's the best racket going. Selling imaginary goods, and all sales are final.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Do you accept Canadian pennies? I can send a few pounds your way. :biggrin:

PS: I do not require any services from God or anybody as not religious.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

You could try, carverman, but I think you might have some trouble convincing us!:biggrin:


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## Robillard (Apr 11, 2009)

You might say that an 18% automatic tip is a simply a pre-tax tip. It's a more normal 14.4% after the government gets its cut (assuming that the servers are in a 20% tax bracket). After all, there is a physical record that tip was paid, so the tax authorities could audit the restaurant and figure out that the servers underreported their income. 

I partially sympathise with the penny-pinching pastor. It irks me to find a $20 meal inflated to $26.43 after an 18% automatic tip and 12% HST. If the restaurant has a PBT margin of 10% before tips, then Federal and provincial governments get to collect about $0.60 in corporate tax (assuming a 30% tax rate on $2 in profit, and ignoring any profit earned by the restaurant's suppliers), $0.72 in personal tax (assuming a 20% marginal tax personal rate on the tip, and ignoring the wage income earned), and $2.83 in HST, for a total of $4.15. 

In the grand scheme of things, it would be better to do away with the practice of tipping. Then servers would have to be paid more, and they wouldn't be dodging taxes by underreporting their income. Sadly, tipping ingrained in our culture.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Do you accept Canadian pennies? I can send a few pounds your way. :biggrin:


It would cost you more in postage than they are worth. Besides, most stores don't want to deal with them in large quantities
as it takes too much time to count them. You'll have to get rid of them..a few cents at a time.

PS: I do not require any services from God or anybody as not religious.[/QUOTE]
So you are agnostic then? Even better. It's harder to convert anyone who's deeply religious...
no wonder there are so many religious wars over the centuries.:biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Robillard said:


> I partially sympathise with the penny-pinching pastor. It irks me to find a $20 meal inflated to $26.43 after an 18% automatic tip and 12% HST.


This one was in St.Louis so the HST probably wouldn't apply. However, it works both ways..another waitress in another Applebees got an insulting
remark from a customer who wrote on her receipt and didn't give her any tip.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/soci...ating-btch-receipt-insult-overweight-waitress


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Whenever the friendly people with name badges and black suits knock on my door or try to stop me on the street, I feel like telling them:

"Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here."

Of course, I'm too polite. I just avoid making eye contact or say no-thanks and close the door in their face.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Interesting.

The most shocking I think...people actually eat at Applebee's?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> It would cost you more in postage than they are worth. Besides, most stores don't want to deal with them in large quantities as it takes too much time to count them. * You'll have to get rid of them..a few cents at a time.*
> 
> So you are agnostic then? Even better. It's harder to convert anyone who's deeply religious...
> no wonder there are so many religious wars over the centuries.:biggrin:


 .. that's what I have been trying to do, drop them in donation boxes at TH or whereever that accepts but my change jar just grows as I expend those new flimsy polymer bills! :eek2: 

Me agnostic, IDK? All I know is that I'm just a peace-loving Beaver. :chuncky:


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> Interesting.
> 
> The most shocking I think...people actually eat at Applebee's?


:highly_amused:

Also the min wage in Canada is like 30% more than the States (~$7 vs $10) Min wage in Ontario is like 40% more than St Louis ($7.35 vs $10.25) All things factors in it's probably only like 15% difference but leaving no tip in the States is worse than in Canada imo


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Minimum wage for servers in the U.S. is $3.50 an hour.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> Interesting.
> 
> The most shocking I think...people actually eat at Applebee's?


This.

Then again, it is America...

And I doubt a pastor who crosses out a mandatory tip and leaves a snarky note and calls the restaurant demanding staff be fired over her embarrassment is going to tell the truth about leaving $6 in cash. For one thing, it still is more than she tips God.

I have a serious issue with the original waitress posting something with personal info on it, but then again, so did Applebee's when they posted a nice note from someone else and posted their full name. To fire someone because it is against their policy to post personal information after the company does so on their Facebook seems hypocritical.

I also think firing the waitress was lazy, poor management. She should have been reprimanded, absolutely, but fired? That's just a cop-out from management. It would have been better to use it as a teaching point for the rest of the staff and a lesson for the offending waitress and noted on her record in case she does it again. They could have given a gift certificate to the original woman who probably would have appreciated that more than anything else management could do for her.

But the big takeaway is don't eat at Applebee's.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> Interesting.
> 
> The most shocking I think...people actually eat at Applebee's?


Why not? I ate at Applebee's just a few weeks ago when I was in the US. The thing I ordered was actually really good.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I hate restaurants that add a mandatory tip. Generally speaking I make a point not to go to them.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Applebees is like McDonalds or Walmart, companies that are very successful even though everyone looks down on their products/services.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> .
> 
> Me agnostic, IDK? All I know is that I'm just a peace-loving Beaver. :chuncky:


referring to your statement:


> PS: I do not require any services from God or anybody as not religious.


So you don't know if you are agnostic, but just a pacifist beaver, working religiously in your own pond.


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## Saniokca (Sep 5, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> :highly_amused:
> 
> Also the min wage in Canada is like 30% more than the States (~$7 vs $10) Min wage in Ontario is like 40% more than St Louis ($7.35 vs $10.25) All things factors in it's probably only like 15% difference but leaving no tip in the States is worse than in Canada imo


just because it's a money forum - your math is way way off


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> referring to your statement:
> So you don't know if you are agnostic, but just a pacifist beaver, working religiously in your own pond.


 ... yep, a pacifist Canadian beaver working-my-wagger off in my own pond. :biggrin:


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Interesting side note. In Mexico, a 16% VAT is included in the price of everything. The restaurants add the 15-18% to the total including tax for groups of 6 or 8.

OTOH the standard tip for Mexican diners is 10%.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Saniokca said:


> just because it's a money forum - your math is way way off


Yes I noticed after I posted it. You get the point :tongue-new:

If MoneyGal is right then :eek2: Our servers have it pretty good


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I was wrong. It's actually $2.13 per hour. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/02/minimum-wage-restaurant-workers_n_1515916.html

Tipping is structurally built into the U.S. service economy. As someone who spends a lot of time in the U.S. interacting with various servers, I really, really hate it. Not the tipping: what I perceive as exploitation. I tip well.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> Not the tipping: what I perceive as exploitation. I tip well.





> The fact that the tipped wage has held steady for over 20 years at the federal level and in many states is a testament to the restaurant lobby's effectiveness.


Another example of a society as a whole, that is going down hill. Without the tips, it's almost slave labour...and I thought they abolished slavery after the civil war.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Cal said:


> I hate restaurants that add a mandatory tip. Generally speaking I make a point not to go to them.


I think they only do it for large groups (usually 8 or more), because large groups are a lot harder to serve.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^That's correct - a larger group would have alot more people to service at once. 

I would be more inclined to give a much bigger tip at a smaller restaurant (where you get better attention and service and tips normally go to the waiter/waitress only instead of shared with the restaurant) than I would at a larger chain. 

I wonder what indexx's view on this one.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Robillard said:


> You might say that an 18% automatic tip is a simply a pre-tax tip. It's a more normal 14.4% after the government gets its cut (assuming that the servers are in a 20% tax bracket). After all, there is a physical record that tip was paid, so the tax authorities could audit the restaurant and figure out that the servers underreported their income.
> 
> I partially sympathise with the penny-pinching pastor. It irks me to find a $20 meal inflated to $26.43 after an 18% automatic tip and 12% HST. If the restaurant has a PBT margin of 10% before tips, then Federal and provincial governments get to collect about $0.60 in corporate tax (assuming a 30% tax rate on $2 in profit, and ignoring any profit earned by the restaurant's suppliers), $0.72 in personal tax (assuming a 20% marginal tax personal rate on the tip, and ignoring the wage income earned), and $2.83 in HST, for a total of $4.15.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, it would be better to do away with the practice of tipping. Then servers would have to be paid more, and they wouldn't be dodging taxes by underreporting their income. Sadly, tipping ingrained in our culture.



I really agree with this. It winds me up that a tip is expected and almost demanded. I'm from the UK where a tipping culture is somewhat different. There are many restaurants you go to and you would simply never leave a tip. Or you may choose to for exemplary service. Prices on the menu include tax so you know what you are paying. Yes there are restaurants which are generally more up market where a tip would be more expected and the service more personalized. 

At any UK equivalent of Boston Pizza, Kelseys, Applebys etc you would pretty much never leave a tip.

There are many people in Canada only earning the minimum wage with no opportunity to obtain a tip. If we didn't go out to eat then the restaurant wouldn't be there and the server wouldn't be employed so how is it another 15% can almost be demanded on top?

The US has a much lower wage for servers and cheaper food prices than here in Canada so I can see a bit more reason behind the tipping culture.


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