# Considering my first home in Brooklin, On but trying to understand market



## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

I am considering purchasing a home in Brooklin (North Whitby). I have lived on the western side of the GTA all of my life but took a job in Pickering and my wife is going to start her job in North Oshawa. I have been commuting from Oakville, where we have been renting, and it's killing me. A lot of people have recommended Brooklin to me and it seems like the "it" place in the region but I am trying to understand why after seeing a few homes in the area. I am trying to understand the appeal and why prices are escalating so quickly. Looking at comparables homes (small detached/link homes) that went for 400-430k less than six months ago are now being listed 450-480k, which seems like a really rapid rise in such a short period. I understand that the 407 expansion is coming through but there is a lot of land in between brooklin and say Unionville in Markham, there is all this free land. Why isn't this land being developed?

I am a sky is falling type of person and I feel like the overall GTA market has peaked, and when I buy, there could be a crash/correction precipitated by interest rate hikes.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Looking on MLS, Brooklin prices seem just as high as Whitby prices so I don't see any economic advantage of buying in Brooklin. Have you considered Port Perry? It looks to be much cheaper. It's slightly further away but the roads leading to it are not that congested even during rush hour.

As for the free space between brooklin and markham, they are planning to put a large airport there. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Airport


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

To be fair, both times I've bought a property I've been sick to my stomach assuming the property would dramatically decrease in value and instead of buying in don mills/lawrence I could have bought a mansion in rosedale for the same money if I'd only waited 6 weeks more.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

All Durham Region prices have increased about 10% in last 12 months ,it seems Brooklin and Whitby get mostly bidding wars ,Oshawa is a bit cheaper than Whitby/Brooklin.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

When you buy a home, you roll the dice and take your chances...my mother never bought a place she didn't lose money on, and we moved a lot growing up. Me, I've never bought a place I didnt make money off of...some of it is luck, some timing, some circumstance.

A home is not usually an investment, it's a place where you live, grow, and make memories. 

If you're really worried about the prices, talk to a realtor, get on a list of places that meet your criteria and don't be so picky. There are always people who have to move for some reason and sell below market...it doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. Check out houses that have been listed a long time, then make a lower offer...it doesn't cost you anything. Look for places that have potential, and fix them up...I've rarely known anyone who's moved into a place and not done some renovations (at least painting), yet everyone tries to buy the place that looks "really nice"...if it was so nice, why did you renovate first thing? Buy a place that doesn't look so nice and paint away...

Of course, if you're looking for a specific house on a specific block, you'll pay through the nose most likely...


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> When you buy a home, you roll the dice and take your chances...my mother never bought a place she didn't lose money on, and we moved a lot growing up. Me, I've never bought a place I didnt make money off of...some of it is luck, some timing, some circumstance.
> 
> A home is not usually an investment, it's a place where you live, grow, and make memories.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't really like the sound of taking chances on a major purchase. I don't need my home to a major money maker, but I would like it to be something I don't lose badly on - ever, and a place I would like to live, at least for some time, and close enough to my work that commuting doesn't frustrate me too much (so Port Perry is off of my list, as Brooklin was at my limit). I prefer renting (which is why I've never owned) but the neighborhoods with a lot of rentals in the Durham are not desirable and my wife doesn't want to rent anymore, and she isn't too fond of ajax/pickering, so whitby it probably is. I've been lucky to find a short term rental situation through friends beginning in the middle of January until March or so, so I've afforded myself some time to figure the lay of the land out. I just don't understand the market out on the east side. It seems like there are huge patches of undeveloped land throughout Durham, so I don't understand the rising home prices in certain pockets and what makes one place more attractive over another....there isn't really a lot of volume either out here.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Just for another pov email your question to this guy

[email protected]

You will get an answer but perhaps not the one you want to hear.


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

Eder said:


> Just for another pov email your question to this guy
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> You will get an answer but perhaps not the one you want to hear.


Yeah, the answer will be to put all your money in preferred shares, or as my finance professor says, the shares only their mother could love. His investing advice aside from the platitudes of diversification is extremely suspect. As is his timing, anyone following his advice since his blog premiered in 2008 (almost 7 years ago!) has undoubtedly not profitted from his advice.

This doesn't make me a real estate bear or bull, but a spade is a spade.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well it is another view to consider. Personally I think that homes are worth not more than 2.5x family annual income and sold my last home 2 1/2 years ago. Maybe it is different this time though.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I can't speak to the appeal of a $400k+ place in Brooklyn. A lot of crammed brick homes on prior farmland. But I would second Just a Guy's comments, and add - what is the area, style, size and price range you're looking at? Will this be your long term home (i.e. a place you'd be happy to be 'stuck in' for many years?) Is the commute access good for both of you, are there children (and a school) in the future? Choices narrow down pretty quickly once you do some filtering. Spend some time on MLS looking at what is on the market. Then, as suggested if you are going to shop, contact a realtor and set up some showings.
This is an interesting thread as I've just returned from helping out with a house that's been listed for $389.9k in North Oshawa on Darcy St.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Eder said:


> Well it is another view to consider. Personally I think that homes are worth not more than 2.5x family annual income and sold my last home 2 1/2 years ago. Maybe it is different this time though.


The average family income in the country is 76k, so the average family should only be able to afford a 190k home? That just doesn't seem realistic, considering that 190k won't buy a home in most of Canada.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

$190,000 will buy a nice single family home around here.

Unless people in the bubble areas are earning a whole lot more than the average income............they are grossly overpaying for homes.

A $500,000 one bedroom condo in a concrete building in Toronto.....or a $500,000 mansion in London, Ontario.........what a difference a 2 hour drive makes.


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

sags said:


> $190,000 will buy a nice single family home around here.
> 
> Unless people in the bubble areas are earning a whole lot more than the average income............they are grossly overpaying for homes.
> 
> A $500,000 one bedroom condo in a concrete building in Toronto.....or a $500,000 mansion in London, Ontario.........what a difference a 2 hour drive makes.


And a 4 hour drive to north bay will get you even more. And a 10 hour drive to north of Sudbury gets you a forrest...

The reality is that most people who live in Toronto do so because they want to, and make compromises to make it happen. (disclaimer: that includes me). The sad reality is that a two hour drive out of toronto means you're still in toronto if you leave between 8am - 9am or 4.30pm to 5.30pm.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

sags said:


> $190,000 will buy a nice single family home around here.
> 
> Unless people in the bubble areas are earning a whole lot more than the average income............they are grossly overpaying for homes.
> 
> A $500,000 one bedroom condo in a concrete building in Toronto.....or a $500,000 mansion in London, Ontario.........what a difference a 2 hour drive makes.


They may be overpaying for homes, but I don't really understand what you are saying. Are you talking about living in London and commuting to Toronto? That sounds insane to spend at least 4 hours commuting every day, nearly 400 kms round trip lol At that point, you are not living in your mansion much, as much as you will be living in your car.

I think people live in the GTA because their jobs are in the GTA. A lot of people may not want to "live" in the GTA, but practically have to, because that's where there jobs are and it's difficult to find jobs elsewhere. Then it becomes a question of renting or purchasing, not about moving 200 kms away to purchase.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Thing is in toronto a working couple should be making at least 200k annual to live there so they can afford a one bedroom condo in the ghetto.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Eder said:


> Thing is in toronto a working couple should be making at least 200k annual to live there so they can afford a one bedroom condo in the ghetto.


They can get by with less, if they can commute using public transport or by simply walking. They may not live like kings, but it's far from a "ghetto" slum existence.

Anyway, that's all besides the point. This thread was created to understand the dynamics of the GTA market, especially on the east side of the GTA. I am leaving the more expensive west side of the GTA for cheaper housing on the east end, but before I got there, prices I have have jumped.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

loggedout said:


> I think people live in the GTA because their jobs are in the GTA. A lot of people may not want to "live" in the GTA, but practically have to, because that's where there jobs are and it's difficult to find jobs elsewhere. Then it becomes a question of renting or purchasing, not about moving 200 kms away to purchase.


Bingo. Small towns don't have jobs in my field. I could probably find a job in my field in a mid-sized town like London, but it wouldn't pay nearly what it pays in Toronto, and it would be with a small company (I much prefer working for large companies). I wonder what portion of people in the GTA truly prefer living in the GTA, my guess is a lot less than people think. So if 3x your income is reasonable for a house in one town, might be 6x in another town. If you think 6x your income is too much to pay for a house, but most people think it's not, then you're out of luck (unless you earn significantly more than most people) because the market price will be what most people are willing to pay.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Sorry for the not very useful post here but I seem to recall Brooklin looked like a very nice location... I distinctly remember the Eldorado Golf Club near Brooklin. Several years ago... might be 4 years now... they had some of the most amazing Mexican food I ever had in Canada which I thought was very strange. So strange that it got imprinted on my mind: great Mexican food in Brooklin, ON.

I personally like that area, farther away from the ridiculousness of the 401


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I used to beat up on Toronto a lot too (even while I lived there). Houses and condos are definitely too expensive and yeah, you'd be crazy to buy a condo in Toronto. In hindsight though I think Toronto offers some good compromises for lifestyle, especially downtown, and I miss it. The rest of my post focuses on the downtown experience.

I found cost of living pretty reasonable in Toronto, as a renter. I lived in the downtown core and walked/biked/subwayed everywhere. Rent was high, _but you don't need a car_. Food was affordable. Entertainment was plentiful and very accessible. Living downtown and forgetting about cars is a wonderful lifestyle, and it's not a slum existence. My neighbours, guys doing the same thing, were Bay Street bankers and lawyers earning high salaries. None of us had cars. We'd just occasionally rent one, easy enough.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Toronto is a great city to live in and actually not expensive at all. Subways and Go trains are fantastic. Arts, culture and entertainment options are superb. I travel a lot and being close to the island airport (Porter/AC) plus YYZ was a great.

I've gained some new perspective as I now live in a west coast US city that is considered to be one of the best places in America. You know what?? Toronto offers just as much (and culturally, *more*) for a lower cost of living. Not to mention great cultural diversity and values that I share. Obviously my opinions are coloured by what I place value on, plus I'm probably a bit homesick.


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

@ James4Beach - which city are you in now? Seattle? Portland?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

@NotMe, For privacy I don't post my exact location, but yes it's one of those two cities


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