# Corporate vs entrepeneur



## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

I was thinking about this, how do you guys perceive the typical corporate career versus the entrepeneur adventurous path in term of time invested in the career for potential wealth success. Granted, both are hard to obtain, but a entrepeneur can make it with a good business versus the almost endless ladder climbing to reach the top of the food chain.

P.s. don`t flame me! I have my flamesuit on ............................ I know you are coming for me Humble Pie  hahahha joke joke you are awesome!


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I think it depends on your personality. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. Not everyone is cut out to be an executive. Sadly, I think most people are trained to be employees all their lives.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

An entrepreneur has unlimited upside, but significant downsides, as you have full responsibility for the outcome.

Slaving away in the corporate world is safer, but relies more on the people around and above you to get to the top.

Is there a reason for this post? Contemplating a career move?


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

Guban said:


> An entrepreneur has unlimited upside, but significant downsides, as you have full responsibility for the outcome.
> 
> Slaving away in the corporate world is safer, but relies more on the people around and above you to get to the top.
> 
> Is there a reason for this post? Contemplating a career move?


Not a career move since I am not even in my career yet, I am still in school (Univeristy). I just had a random thought, I was picturing myself with both outcomes...


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Most entrepreneurs fail miserably, mostly due to bad luck and most corporate execs. muddle along just fine. Entrepreneurs have a chance, albeit very small, at acquiring humungous riches and most corporate execs are lucky to get a good pension when their work life ends.

It's your roll of the dice.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I did the entrepreneur thing for a while, made good money but then switched to employment as I didn't enjoy handling all the business aspects myself. I enjoy my place in the corperate structure and do not want to advance further as I like my work just the way it is now. It really depends on what drives you and what makes you happy.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Just a Guy said:


> Sadly, I think most people are trained to be employees all their lives.


I don't see being an employee as a sad thing unless you're not doing the type of work you want to do.


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## bds (Aug 13, 2013)

There isn't anything wrong with being an employee unless you let your job title define your level of success. For me at this point in my life, being able to leave at 4-5 and not having to care about a single work-related thing until 9AM the next day is where I want to be. Being an entrepreneur or executive does not allow that luxury. Don't get me wrong, I like my job... but I like my life more.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

This choice is more about the type of person you are. In general, if you are a play it safe, take orders from inferiors and tolerate a lot of oversight and control then executive life is for you. 

On the other hand, if risk is something you can manage in exchange for following your passion end the satisfaction and freedom that may come from it, entrepreneurship is the the way.

It also depend on your stage in life. Much easier to strike out on your own and deal with the stress of starting a business when you are single. Its not as easy when you have a wife and kids counting on you at home. Mostly they want a steady paycheck and some certainty.


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## Hugo Reyes (Jun 1, 2012)

This quote from Thomas Edison is one of my favorites, "I have far more respect for the person with a single idea who gets there than for the person with a thousand ideas who does nothing.... ". If you are young and ambitious at least try, if you fail, do so respectably and any smart employer will appreciate your effort and ambition. And yes I am an entrepreneur.


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## Canadian (Sep 19, 2013)

I think it depends on how you want to spend your time. Choosing a career makes it (usually) easier to separate work from home life. Being an entrepreneur is a round-the-clock job that requires patience, dedication, and passion. Also, like cainvest mentioned - being an entrepreneur requires you to be moderately skilled in all areas of the business (untill it's large enough to hire employees) while many successful careers come from specialization.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

cainvest said:


> I don't see being an employee as a sad thing unless you're not doing the type of work you want to do.


If you never experience anything else, you don't know what you're missing I guess...I've been an employee, it wasn't for me.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

bds said:


> There isn't anything wrong with being an employee unless you let your job title define your level of success. For me at this point in my life, being able to leave at 4-5 and not having to care about a single work-related thing until 9AM the next day is where I want to be. Being an entrepreneur or executive does not allow that luxury. Don't get me wrong, I like my job... but I like my life more.


As an entrepreneur, I've always had time to come and go as I please...I go on all my kid's field trips, I don't work when I don't want to...it all depends on if you let your job rule your life, it has nothing to do with being an entrepreneur.

Of course, I also have passive income from my investments, and don't need to accumulate a ton of toys I can't afford...

There's that catchphrase...work smarter, not harder.

My 1st real boss once told me smart people are lazy, they'll figure out the fastest way to get the job done well so they don't have to work as much...

I took that to heart.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Just a Guy said:


> If you never experience anything else, you don't know what you're missing I guess...I've been an employee, it wasn't for me.


I agree that for those inclined, try out both avenues ... being your own boss, accountant, sales person, inventor, etc, etc has many perks but normally comes with a downside as well, sometimes severe. Being an employee you can focus on what you like to do (if you find the right job & people) and generally get more stable pay plus you can still be a small scale entrepreneur after your 9 to 5 is done if you like, I did for that a while too because the extra work was fun.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm making far more money as an employee now, and the work is probably _more_ interesting actually.

But there are certain things I miss so much about being an entrepreneur and business owner. I could just take off and go surfing for a few weeks in some corner of the world. I can't do that any more and it's kind of bummin' me out


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

james4beach said:


> But there are certain things I miss so much about being an entrepreneur and business owner. I could just take off and go surfing for a few weeks in some corner of the world.


That is merely a dreamy fantasy, not reality.
The vast majority of entrepreneurs are not able to do that due to the pressures and demands of running/growing the business, at least for the first several years.

It takes several years to get to a state where an entrepreneur can "just take off and go surfing for a few weeks in some corner of the world".

It is one thing to have some time flexibility during the day as a self-employed or a business owner, such as running errands, picking up/dropping kids/spouse, etc. but "just take off and go surfing for a few weeks in some corner of the world" is glossy magazine fantasy.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

HaroldCrump said:


> That is merely a dreamy fantasy, not reality.
> The vast majority of entrepreneurs are not able to do that due to the pressures and demands of running/growing the business, at least for the first several years.


I would agree this is not the norm, most entrepreneurs I know are success seekers/work-a-holics and rarely take a break. I do however know one that takes the extreme side, often taking off for 6 months to over a year every 3-4 years and has been doing it for quite some time now. When he gets back, he rebuilds his business until the next adventure calls him away, very weird but he likes it.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I'll admit I worked harder in my first years, but getting hurt put things into perspective. I'm lucky that, as long as I'm connected I can work from anywhere and often have.

I've always hired people to do the work I don't like, or don't understand (like accounting)...I found my time was better spent making money doing things I knew how to do instead of trying to save money by doing things I didn't know how to do. This is something a lot of entrepreneurs don't learn. Making a little money off of a lot of other people also adds up to a lot of money.

I've also learned that the world never came to an end if I didn't work for a day, a week or even a month...

Again, I'm not discounting that there are people who work like a dog...but again, it goes back to your personality. I was the type who could figure out how to make money without working like a dog...did I maximize my earning potential, not a chance...am I enjoying life, you bet.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> That is merely a dreamy fantasy, not reality.


It's possible. I was doing it.

Then again I ran a business for over 10 years, and by that time I was good at scheduling my time so that I was busy sometimes, idle other times. But I agree in your first few years, there's no way you can afford to be relaxed like this.


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

SkyFall said:


> I was thinking about this, how do you guys perceive the typical corporate career versus the entrepeneur adventurous path in term of time invested in the career for potential wealth success. Granted, both are hard to obtain, but a entrepeneur can make it with a good business versus the almost endless ladder climbing to reach the top of the food chain.
> 
> P.s. don`t flame me! I have my flamesuit on ............................ I know you are coming for me Humble Pie  hahahha joke joke you are awesome!


Assuming you are equally capable at succeeding in both, here is my take:

I think it goes without saying that your upside is fairly limited in a corporation, though you are pretty well protected on the downside: even if you eventually hit your peak on the corporate ladder, you'll still earn a pretty decent wage. With entrepreneurship, the odds favor the winners and if you are one, you get rich. I think the tax system also favors entrepreneurs, although work-life balance is probably more difficult.

Finally, IMO, a lot more of your success in a corporation depends on factors out of your control. You can make the right moves, build the right relationships, and work your *** off, but still not get that next promotion. As an entrepreneur, you can take back some, but not all, of that control of your own success.


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## Westerncanada (Nov 11, 2013)

Very tough spread here.. I've done both, currently doing corporate but owned 3 separate companies over the course of 7 years and would say this is really swinging on the type of corporate jobs. The majority of corporate executives that I know are very happy, extremely well paid.. and in a position that they could likley retire on the spot if they were let go. But again, I guess it depends what type of corporate executive we are discussing and what type of corporate job. 

If you mean a Sales Job paying 60-75K vs an Entrepenuer bringing in the same then definitely owning a business would be a rewarding a worthwhile opportunity. However.. some of the executives are making 180K a year plus stocks + Bonus's and perks that pay almost equal to their salary.. so have a hard time imagining someone would take a risk business wise when they are in that position?


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

When I was 22 this was a question I had some 38 years ago.

I had the opportunity to strike out on my own I choice to be an employee.

It worked out fine for me because I liked what I did and had all the benefits one could ask for.
I was able to retire at 56 with a good pension after more than 30 years doing something I liked.

Once in a while I do think Hummmm did I sell myself cheap or was this the best decision I will never ever know !!! 
But I am happy because things turned out fine..


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I personally don't think there is a linear 'either' 'or'
Both are complete opposites imo
Most(all?)entrepeneur's are not built for corporate structure and the same generally can be applied from the other end-corporate person built for entrepenuer.
Most entrepenuers i know(i am one)money is not even the driving force
one is mars the other is venus


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Imo-everybody likely on cmf is a entrepenuer at heart.
Managing your own portfolio is being a entrepeneur


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

After a certain point of being an entrepreneur, I realized I had become unemployable...I had too much freedom for too long, to make me sit back and take orders, or respect the hierarchy. 

Funny thing is, I also notice that many employees couldn't solve company issues because they were forced to respect the opinions of those above them...as a consultant, I'm allowed to tell them they are wrong but a staff member couldn't do that without risk of being fired.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Westerncanada said:


> Very tough spread here.. I've done both, currently doing corporate but owned 3 separate companies over the course of 7 years and would say this is really swinging on the type of corporate jobs. The majority of corporate executives that I know are very happy, extremely well paid.. and in a position that they could likley retire on the spot if they were let go. But again, I guess it depends what type of corporate executive we are discussing and what type of corporate job.
> 
> If you mean a Sales Job paying 60-75K vs an Entrepenuer bringing in the same then definitely owning a business would be a rewarding a worthwhile opportunity. However.. some of the executives are making 180K a year plus stocks + Bonus's and perks that pay almost equal to their salary.. so have a hard time imagining someone would take a risk business wise when they are in that position?


I quit a great corporate job (over 10 years with the company) making over $200k to start my business (and my wife was six months pregnant at the time). Best decision I have ever made. Seven years later life is very good, business successful and growing. I am making more but also building wealth within the business. Work life balance is excellent and I have a great team of happy well paid employees with minimal turnover.


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

Ihatetaxes said:


> I quit a great corporate job (over 10 years with the company) making over $200k to start my business (and my wife was six months pregnant at the time). Best decision I have ever made. Seven years later life is very good, business successful and growing. I am making more but also building wealth within the business. Work life balance is excellent and I have a great team of happy well paid employees with minimal turnover.


Care to share your line of business pre- and post-corporate? Thanks


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

donald said:


> Imo-everybody likely on cmf is a entrepenuer at heart.
> Managing your own portfolio is being a entrepeneur


I would tend to disagree. There might be some, but IMO most DIYers (whether its investing or anything else) are extremely cheap (sometimes to a fault) and have only a superficial understanding of their trade, usually from dubious internet sources. They tend to find other, like-minded DIYers, which reinforces their beliefs (whether right or wrong). I wouldn't equate this to entrepreneurialism.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't know Gt-23,When i started my construction business back in 2005(as a 26 yr old)i knew most of the technical aspects but very little of the business side(looking back over the last 9 years is eye opening!I have learnt doing!(objectively how can a mid 20's person know it all?your not suppose to!but...that is one of the chief traits imo of a entrepenuer.You start!with what you have and you take one step at a time and you build off of your experiences(there is a willingness to 'fail' and half of it is experimentation(tweak as you go along)In the first few years a lot of it is fumbling somewhat in the 'dark' but you see it through!
This is my point!what you have wrote is a typical response a corporate person(who craves structure and does not like the unknown and would rather choose 'safety' would say)
If one is to 'wait' until they are 'sure' one would never start---ask any founder of any business or enterprise(and like i was saying up-thread money is usually not the driving force at the start of a business(A NEED to be a 'lone' wolf and a high need to create)


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Ironically(for myself)Struggling in the school system and 'dropping' out was a blessing.
If it wasn't for that i wouldn't be where i am at 35 and i def wouldn't be reading cmf
I own a small business but it is profitable and i thank god i wasn't smart enough for university(i am smart,i have a Iq of over 120)but i couldn't hack it in junior high or high school because i learn 'differently'.(some learning disabilities in reading/writing comprehension,but i 'do' get 'it' just not in the standard way the federal school system teaches)
If my business failed i would rather start a new business around oil drum's in the inner city selling 'goods' than work for a corporation lol


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

Let me spill it out since I started the thread...

I am 23, still in school and working part-time to pay tuitions and other expenses.... my whole life I was always trying to start something... a business, but I couldn't find the right idea or the idea had too many potential downside if something went wrong. I get that entrepreneur needs to take a certain risk.... but on every idea I ran the numbers and it didn't work out so well.... I am the type of person that will make plan A, B, C, D, E, etc.... I will try to think about all the possible outcomes. I am still looking for a good business idea that will fit me and I will believe in it.

Meanwhile, I am still in school and working I start questioning all the steps I need to take just to get somewhere decent....


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

So you suffer from analysis paralysis...

Instead of working out how everything can go wrong, start something and work out how to make it work as you go along.

Subtle difference in thinking.


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

SkyFall said:


> Let me spill it out since I started the thread...
> 
> I am 23, still in school and working part-time to pay tuitions and other expenses.... my whole life I was always trying to start something... a business, but I couldn't find the right idea or the idea had too many potential downside if something went wrong. I get that entrepreneur needs to take a certain risk.... but on every idea I ran the numbers and it didn't work out so well.... I am the type of person that will make plan A, B, C, D, E, etc.... I will try to think about all the possible outcomes. I am still looking for a good business idea that will fit me and I will believe in it.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am still in school and working I start questioning all the steps I need to take just to get somewhere decent....


I will be 28 this year. Like you, I used to do a lot of research into different businesses and ways to make money. In particular, I was pretty hard on myself for not being able to think of some great idea (i.e. Facebook). By the time I finished university (undergrad and masters) I had started and run about 5 different businesses, more if you count the ones I began but abandoned in the early stages. None of these were particularly innovative or game-changing - all were basically just versions of something someone else had already done: my strategy was usually to undercut on price to get in.

Looking back, even where I failed in business, my loss was usually limited to the value of my time, which was worth very little at the time. I would encourage you to take more risk while you can, because it gets a whole lot harder once you accumulate something to lose and your life priorities start to change (there is no way I would work 7am to 10 pm anymore). Also, try not to focus as much on finding that "blue ocean" idea and go with something you think you can do well, even if it seems like an old economy idea with little prospects for growth.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I also wouldn't recommend trying to undercut others as a way to enter a business sector. Provide quality for a fair price. Personally I've never been cheap.

I've seen many competitors try to undercut me, sometimes they even steal my clients, but I've been in business now for decades, while many of my competition flames out since they couldn't make a living by undercutting.

Many of my lost clients return, as they know I'll be here tomorrow for them.

Undercutting is just a race to the bottom. Apple never tried to undercut the competition. 

It takes the same amount of effort to land a $100 client as it does to land a $10,000 one, or even a $100,000 one. Don't focus on the $100 ones.


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

Just a Guy said:


> I also wouldn't recommend trying to undercut others as a way to enter a business sector. Provide quality for a fair price. Personally I've never been cheap.
> 
> I've seen many competitors try to undercut me, sometimes they even steal my clients, but I've been in business now for decades, while many of my competition flames out since they couldn't make a living by undercutting.
> 
> ...


You missed my point altogether. Apple doesn't undercut because they have a product that everybody wants in a brand new market (i.e. a true blue ocean).

I was saying that for boring, low barrier to entry businesses, competing on price is probably the only way to gain a toehold, particularly in the service industry. I also never said I didn't provide quality. If you can provide the same quality product or level of service as your competition at a lower price, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Undercutting your competition and running a profitable business aren't the same thing. You seem to be implying that undercutting automatically leads to negative profitability and flaming out, but that is not true. Perhaps others are just better at controlling costs than you, perhaps their overheads are lower, perhaps they don't pay themselves as much, perhaps they prefer volume over higher margins, etc...

Furthermore, as the person who posted this question is a student, all the more reason he ought to compete on price: he doesn't have all the financial obligations that a "grown-up" in the same business would have. My two most successful business when I was in university prospered because I was the cheapest in town, they ended for me after I finished school and sold both of them, but both remained profitable with next owners. One was a tutoring company. I started tutoring myself, but eventually had eight tutors working for me. We were cheaper than and took market share from the mainstream tutoring franchises and they hated it, they even tried to sue me once. Our repeat business was a testament to the quality of service.

Another was a property management company. I used to rent out 5-10 investment properties a month. The going rate for the property manager is 1-full month of rent, but I charged 1/2 month. It usually worked out to about $750 for 10-12 hours of work, still a lot of money for a student despite being half the "market" rate for professional PMs. I sucked up to Realtors and investors with big portfolios to get them to throw me deals (most Realtors don't like to rent properties because even with a full months rent as commission, they don't make enough money compared to selling homes). The big PM firms also hated it, I was cheaper but provided the exact same service they did.

The point is...competing on price is not the same as taking a loss. Figuring how to provide an existing product or service at a lower cost (and passing some of that on to your customer) can be as much or more rewarding than trying to invent a new product or market from scratch.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Actually, I think you missed my point...low costs don't lead to long term success. You sold your business, so you got out of it. The next people will probably also sell and get out. Short term, yes it can be successful but, if you want a stable, growing business, you usually have to charge more.

The first three years are tough, many businesses fail in that time, and the question always comes up about how long you've been in business...but once you cross that three year mark, live usually gets easier...except, if you don't charge much, it's hard row raise your prices and keep your original clients...

I know many contractors who started off undercutting...they did good work, developed a reputation, got busier...always made money...but as demand improved, they could either work for cut rate (and keep original customers happy) or try and charge more...new clients didn't complain, but old ones sure did...

Of course, they felt some loyalty to the people who made them successful, passed on their name, etc. but they could do the same work for more money...now the original customers bad mouth them...double edged sword.


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

Just a Guy said:


> Actually, I think you missed my point...low costs don't lead to long term success. You sold your business, so you got out of it. The next people will probably also sell and get out. Short term, yes it can be successful but, if you want a stable, growing business, you usually have to charge more.
> 
> The first three years are tough, many businesses fail in that time, and the question always comes up about how long you've been in business...but once you cross that three year mark, live usually gets easier...except, if you don't charge much, it's hard row raise your prices and keep your original clients...
> 
> ...


I am still missing your point...if there even is one. Low costs can and do actually lead to long-term success and the strategy of many large, successful, multi-billion dollar firms is in fact based on being the lowest cost producer in the industry.

Growing a business has nothing to do with the price you charge for a product or service, but rather the size of the market (and its competitive forces) you operate in. If there is any link at all between the price of a product or service and subsequent growth, it is probably a negative correlation, not positive as you seem to suggest (i.e. lower prices lead to higher market share).

Finally, you have no valid argument that 1) the new owners of my businesses will not achieve similar success with them as I did, and 2) that they will be forced to offload them to some other fool. If they continue to run them according to my business plans, and all else being equal, they will likely be profitable. If they change the business plan or strategy, they may find higher levels of sucess or even failure.

I am of course talking about running a business, not a one-man show or sole proprietorship.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Sorry, I guess all my decades of running businesses, and knowing other business owners pales in comparison to your superior knowledge of the subject matter, I bow to your expertise.

I never said that you couldn't run a business in that model, it's just been my experience that a lot more of those models tend to fail.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^pretty much my experience as well. There will always be someone lower. Better to invest in a better widget and/or better service etc for long term success and expect a fir return on it. I lost some customers shorter term to competitors but the most worthwhile customers either stay or come back after seeing the grass really isn't greener elsewhere, and truly recognize why we charge what we do.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

I have built my business from day one we have always charged our customers more than 90% of our competitors. The reality is our customers don't really care because we do excellent work and I believe we are worth every penny we charge. Most of our revenue comes from repeat business and most of the rest is new clients referred by existing clients so we must be doing something right.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Other peoples money & or other peoples time if you can create a way so they are working for you along with your money & time to make you richer. It will be more productive wealth builder then just using your own time & money to build wealth.


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