# RBC increasing banking fees



## protomok (Jul 9, 2012)

Hi all,

Starting June 1st, 2015 RBC is making some major changes to their banking fees, see list of changes here - http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/servicefeechanges/.

Some key changes:

To qualify for multi product discount you now need $500 or more in an investment. Previously simply having $25 cash in a TFSA and a RBC credit card was enough to qualify for multi product discount.
Many accounts such as No Limit Banking will no longer be free. Even after the multi product discount the monthly fee for No Limit Banking will now be $10.95 - $5 = $5.95 / month.

At this point I'm considering either switching to the "Day to Day Banking" account which has no monthly fee but will likely cause fees due to only 12 debit transactions allowed per month, OR switch to Tangerine.

Curious what other folks using RBC are planning to do? Also curious what people's experience of Tangerine has been coming from a traditional bank?

Thanks


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

> At this point I'm considering either switching to the "Day to Day Banking" account which has no monthly fee but will likely cause fees due to only *12 debit transactions allowed per month*, OR switch to Tangerine.


Day to Day Banking:
It used to be that if you paid multiple bills *at the same time*, they would count as *one debit transaction*.

This might no longer be the case, as it's been several months since I took advantage of it.
Worth checking though.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

I think I will just keep buying bank stocks.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

frase said:


> I think I will just keep buying bank stocks.


Excellent idea! Should we expect nice dividend increase?!

In such case I'd probably move accounts to PCF, no fees, no minimum limit, free cheques (got 50 free cheques even though I didn't ask for it, maybe it's only for first 50...), usually higher rates on HISA and you can use CIBC ATM


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

exactly it, i am closing my RBC account because its fairly inactive

keep using my PC account.... tangerine is another free one (scotia ATMs)


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

My fee went down with RBC- from $22.50 to $19.95

I will be staying there given our needs, convenience and the cost. We use this in tandem with Tangerine, primarily for higher interest offers. The interface with Tangerine is simple and seamless.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gibor said:


> ... In such case I'd probably move accounts to PCF, no fees, no minimum limit, free cheques (got 50 free cheques even though I didn't ask for it, maybe it's only for first 50...), usually higher rates on HISA and you can use CIBC ATM


Last I checked (pun intended :biggrin: ) ... PCF was still free for cheques where one can order refills online & Tangerine was the first fifty only free ($12.50 after that).


Cheers


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I plan on bumping my TFSA to $501 with RBC and then using their visa every 90 days just to get around the fees.

Annoying. RBC won't budge from it either. BMO gave me a credit for my account after I complained.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

My major bank CIBC and I had 2 online only account with PT and Tangerine....So , when I needed to trabsfer cash between PT and Tangerine, I should've use CIBC as a "Middleman" Now after I opened PCF accounts, got debit card and cheques....I'm wondering if I can link PCF directly to PT and Tangerine....?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^^

.... not sure about PT but I have PCF & Tangerine linked.

I expect PT should be fine as well.


Cheers


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I expect that these new fees will help offset some of the decreases in profit that the bank is anticipating over the next 12 months due to the struggling Canadian economy. 

It is good for shareholders. There are other options. The question is will people seek out those options.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

fraser said:


> I expect that these new fees will help offset some of the decreases in profit that the bank is anticipating over the next 12 months due to the struggling Canadian economy.
> 
> It is good for shareholders. * There are other options. * The question is will people seek out those options.


... I agree, time for a deep review and send an adios! :biggrin:


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## Centrifugal (May 4, 2015)

Personally I am waiting for systems like Bitcoin(And similar technologies) to become more widely supported. Not necessarily to replace banks, but to supplement them and add more competition. The last figure I heard in regards to fees is that a 50 million dollar equivalent in Bitcoin transactions would only cost about 6 cents in fees. Not to mention a transfer is instant to anywhere in the world. RBC and other banks need to come out of the dark ages and start leveraging lower cost infrastructure.


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## cedebe (Feb 1, 2012)

Long-term RBCer here, but it hasn't been my primary bank since I added ING into the mix. Unfortunately, Tangerine doesn't have LOCs so I can't get rid of a big bank entirely. TD's accounts aren't any better than RBC, and disappointedly, neither is the big credit union in town, Vancity. 

I suspect I'll grudgingly start making $25/month contributions to my token TFSA at RBC in order to maintain my 'free' account. At least until the LOCs are paid off. :/

If anyone has any other suggestions for fee-free savings/chequings with approx. 10 free withdrawals, personal LOC, and student LOC, please post...


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## Financialplannerdude (Apr 30, 2015)

I noticed the same thing, I'm with TD and it used to be a minimum balance of 1500 now it's 2000. Well this got me thinking I'm paying 3.95 a month in fees (don't live in Canada so don't use it much) or 47.40 a year in fees what if I invested that 2000 (actually closer to 3 grand) in some bank stocks. 4% yield on $3,000 would generate $120 a year in income. Only problem is I'd have to wire money over often and that will cost $4 a time, so I'd need to add $24 to the cost, but I'm still ahead.


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## protomok (Jul 9, 2012)

Hey everyone, thanks for the comments.

I spoke with RBC on the phone and asked if they could waive the new monthly fee on my No Limit Banking account but she wouldn't do it and said she didn't have the authority to reduce fees. She did mention that if I book an appointment at a branch they may be able to remove or reduce the fees based on a review of my account. I'll set up an appointment soon, if they say no, I'll switch to Tangerine.



zylon said:


> Day to Day Banking:
> It used to be that if you paid multiple bills *at the same time*, they would count as *one debit transaction*.
> 
> This might no longer be the case, as it's been several months since I took advantage of it.
> Worth checking though.


This is a really good point. RBC confirmed that this is still the case and can be used to reduce the number of debits to remain under the 12 debit maximum. Even still I don't see how I can remain under 12 debits per month. Email money transfers (which cost $1 AND count as a debit!), paying off my Visa (not with RBC), transferring to TFSA (not with RBC). withdrawing money, and any debit transaction all count as debits :|

I'm not convinced this is a good move for RBC, many other banks even TD are now way more competitive and allow free accounts with reasonable number of debits. Will be interesting to see how many people leave RBC.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I started kicking RBC to the curb last year. I've been with them for about 25 years, but their fees are getting ludicrous. I also got a MUCH better mortgage walking in off the street at VanCity credit union, and they also waived almost all my fees when I opened up a couple of accounts to handle my mortgage and direct pay deposit. The only reason I still have anything to do with RBC is that I have a bit of cash debt to a low-interest LOC there. As soon as it's paid off I'm done for good. Their service has always been top-notch to me, but I just really hate feeling chiselled for every dime- like $3.50 to move money online from my credit card into my savings- they view it as a cash advance, which they charge $3.50 for.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

I was quite shocked to see all the fees there. The part that really makes me mad is if students make contributions to the investments, there were going to be charged a few on top of the commission fees. Stunned. 

I am so glad that I'm with PC! 13 years and counting!


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...p-fee-changes-after-backlash/article24576477/


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

I made sure to tell them exactly why i am leaving them after 25 years. I want them to know that they are pissing people off and losing customers by being so greedy. I think large brick and mortar institutions like this need to streamline and take a page from the burgeoning online and low-fee companies.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Last I checked (pun intended :biggrin: ) ... PCF was still free for cheques where one can order refills online & Tangerine was the first fifty only free ($12.50 after that).


Does anyone actually need more than 5 cheques? I haven't even gotten stuck behind a grandma who still pays with cheques in a long time

Tangerine has a pdf "void cheque" which covers 99.9% of my "need" for cheques. Why we don't use SWIFT or IBAN codes instead is beyond me


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We have saved over $1000. in bank fees over the past twelve months simply by understanding the charges and finding ways to avoid them or by dealing with other suppliers. We were amazed when we sat down and analyzed. And we have saved more than that in some past years.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Is this for a business? I can't believe anyone would be paying $1k/yr in bank fees for personal banking.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

*RBC increasing banking fees*

And just how is this news?


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Our saving were on personal accounts. We have cut down so much we only have the 60plus accounts. Moved our investments away from the bank and we even sourced our paper cheques from the printer that the bank uses but for half the price that the bank charges.

We did a lot of travel this year. We saved just under $600 in Visa FX fees and ATM FX fees by using the Chase Visa card instead of our CIBC VIsa card. We saved another $300. when transferring two small TFSA's from the bank. Read the fine print and realized that there was no charge to cash them out but a charge of $150. each if we transferred them. No one at the bank told mentioned this to us when we asked. So we simply emptied then in Dec. and then r-deposited the money in our investment TFSA's two weeks later, in January.

We realized significant on going savings some time ago by getting rid of all those high MER mutuals and by keeping our cash reserves in internet bank HISA's and TD's. We have also kept track from time to time of what we are now earning on our investments vs. what we would have been earning at the bank. Other than day to day money the only amounts left are about 4K in an orphan RRSP which will be withdrawn or moved in a year or so.


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## protomok (Jul 9, 2012)

Here's a brief update and recap of the RBC fee changes:

March/2015 - RBC announces fee changes which include increased fees on several accounts, increasing age of seniors rebate from 60 to 65, the infamous "pay to pay" changes. Here's a document describing the changes - https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/onlinebanking/servicech/pdf/PDA_Account_Disclosure_Booklet.pdf
May/2015 - RBC backs off on the "pay to pay" fees which would have made bill payments such as loan and credit card payments count towards the max # of debits per month (when the limit is reached bill payments would be $2 / payment).
June 1/2015 - New fees take affect.

I also noticed that as of my September statment it looks like some more fees are being rolled back:


> Starting October 28, 2015, the MultiProduct Rebate®
> available on your No Limit Banking Account will change to offer you better savings.
> Following is a summary of the rebates:
> 1. Receive a full rebate of $10.95 and pay no monthly fee if you hold an active credit card, active investment and mortgage.
> ...


One other weird thing - I have a RBC No Limit banking account and I should be paying $10.95 but so far have not been charged the fee once! Has anyone else had this happen? Presumably some kind of error...not sure if I have an obligation to report this error :|


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