# The iPad Mini



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Apple today introduced the new iPad Mini. Would you consider buying this tablet? If so, why? If not, why not?

Which alternate tablet would you potentially prefer and why?

Do you own a tablet now? How do you like it? Would you purchase another tablet in the future?

As Christmas is fast approaching, and tablets are expected to be a hot item this year, any thoughts and opinions on this topic would likely be helpful to other forum members.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/tech...-light-smooth-and-quite-shiny/article4632907/


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm happy with my google Nexus 7. 
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_16gb


> Nexus 7 (16GB) CA$259.00



The Ipad mini is more expensive.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/...es-new-imac-new-macbook-pro-and-new-mac-mini/



> The entry level iPad Mini, a 16 GB WiFi version starts at $329, with 32 GB at $429 and 64 GB at $529.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

My iPad 2 just collected dust on my coffee table until I gave it away to my little cousin. Reading in bed gave me eye strain lol. My Sony e-reader suffered the same fate. I'm over all handheld gizmos except smartphones. The only place I can read comfortably/ergonomically is at a desk on a laptop/desktop.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Also, you can get an 8 gb Nexus 7 for $209. If you aren't using the device to store media, 8gb is plenty. $209 sure is less than $329.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

My iPad2 is a frisbee. I do like my Galaxy. I think Samsung will be Apple's biggest nightmare.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Just bought an Ipad 3... love it.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Replying to this thread on my iPad (the first one) and thinking of a mini for my wife. She likes this one, but wants something with a smaller form factor.


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## dave2012 (Feb 17, 2012)

We're still using our original iPad which is indispensable. About time we get a new one though, especially considering all the $$'s we've made with AAPL. We'll pick up the new iPad 4. Mini should be great for some, but I want more screen real-estate.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Apple did a side-by-side comparison of the iPad Mini and the Nexus 7 during the product launch yesterday, and the Nexus 7 came out looking pretty lame (which of course is to be expected because it was Apple doing the comparison). But apart from the much better build quality and materials, and the more effective aspect ratio, the iPad has about 5,000 real tablet apps available; the Nexus 7 uses stretched phone apps. I think it's going to be one of those situations where once people get them in their hands, many of them will conclude that the iPad mini is a better machine and a better experience, and thus worth the extra money. Whether they'll be willing to plunk down the extra money remains to be seen. The original iPod was more expensive than pretty much any other MP3 player on the market, including Microsoft's Zune, but you don't see many of those these days.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

^^ The most recent Simpsons' episode had a whole Zune storyline.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Didn't the late Mr. Jobs say that the smaller devices [than the initial iPad] were 'tweeners' & hence 'dead on arrival'?

I'm surprised at your interest Belguy. :encouragement:


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

I think the price of the iPad Mini just reinforces the great value of the Nexus 7, the new Google nexus products announced later this week will probably make the Nexus product line even more compelling.

For most people the Nexus 7 will probably do everything they want to it. However, I would expect the iPad Mini to sell like hot cakes since it will be viewed more as a status symbol.

The sleeper story however, is the iPad 4 and what iPad 3 owners are going to be thinking about their recent purchase.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Good point, Brad. I would make the counterpoint that Zune never caught on or got critical mass. I think it's safe to say that Android has, as a platform.

I haven't see the comparison you refer to. The apps seem like a rather tenuous advantage. Important things like web browsing are well-tailored to the form factor. Tablet versions of other apps are a priority for Google, and should not be far off. Nexus 7 supports full-blown multitasking, which iPad still does not. Android 4.0 allows developers to create apps that will scale appropriately to phone or tablet screens. 

Let's unpack some of the differences:
-Nexus 7 has a smaller screen, but significantly higher resolution and especially pixel density than iPad Mini (216 vs 163 ppi). Arguably, the point of a 7 inch tablet is to be a 7 inch tablet--I'm not sure smaller size is a disadvantage. There is a huge gulf in Apple-land between 4 inch iPhone/iPod and 8 inch iPad mini. Apple was trying to argue that their aspect ratio makes more sense and claiming that it is easy to hold in one hand--the Nexus 7 is strictly easier to hold, being narrower. iPad mini being 5.3 inches wide would make it challenging to hold one handed for those without larger than average hands.
-Nexus 7 sports a quadcore Tegra 3 processor, while iPad mini is still using the dual core A5.
-Nexus 7 is only available in 8 gb and 16 gb wifi models currently--if you want something bigger or with mobile data, you'll either have to wait or get an iPad mini. On the other hand, it is rumoured that Google/Asus will replace the 16gb model with a 32 gb model at the $249 price point (in the US). The comparison would then be between $249 Nexus 7 and $429 iPad mini. The price difference is not small.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Didn't the late Mr. Jobs say that the smaller devices [than the initial iPad] were 'tweeners' & hence 'dead on arrival'?
> 
> I'm surprised at your interest Belguy. :encouragement:


Yes. How long until we see an iPhone with a wider screen? According to Steve, anything wider is hard to use one handed.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Yes. How long until we see an iPhone with a wider screen? According to Steve, anything wider is hard to use one handed.


Actually the new iPhone has a narrower screen; they decided that narrower and taller was better than wider.

Pocketability is key in a cellphone, so I doubt they'd ever come out with a wider-screen iPhone. Same with the iPod: they've maintained pocketability as a constraint on size. That's obviously not an issue with a tablet.

I don't really see the market for the iPad mini myself; the ability to hold it in one hand seems overblown because I use my standard-size iPad with one hand all the time....is there really such an advantage to holding something IN one hand versus holding it WITH one hand? I think the only time I use my iPad with two hands is when I'm lying in bed reading. The mini does seem simply like a response to the popularity of smaller tablets, but it doesn't feel like Apple poured their heart and soul into designing it. Maybe they want to see whether it has legs, and if so they'll give it more attention.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sure, 'pocketability' is important for some, but tens of millions of people have bought wider, even much wider phones. So, assuming those consumers aren't wrong/stupid, there is a significant market that Apple is abandoning: people who want a phone that's big enough that they don't have to haul around a tablet too.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Yes, but Apple is all about avoiding markets they're not interested in, no matter how potentially lucrative. There was an interview with Tim Cook a few years ago where he discussed how they turn down good product and feature ideas every day, because they want to focus tightly on a relatively small and manageable number of products. He said something like "everything we make can fit on one table, and together they bring in $40 billion a year. How many companies can say that?"


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I currently own the first IPAD that came out and can say its a usefull device. It gets used daily and if I did not currently own one the newest IPAD Mini would be on my list to buy.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I don't own a smartphone. I don't even own a cellphone. However, I do have a portable phone and so I did step up from a corded phone. The only computer that I own is a 2003 desktop running Windows XP but my 'high speed' internet has become very slow.

Do those of you who own a tablet also have either a desktop or a laptop computer as well?

If you were to have only one type of computer in your home, what would it be?


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Belguy said:


> If you were to have only one type of computer in your home, what would it be?


Tablets aren't computers, they are consumption devices and will probably be for a long time. I like my laptop but there's a lot of wear & tear from carrying it all over the place and I've had to replace laptops frequently. If I was only allowed to own one computer it would be a desktop. PC desktops are pretty generous with upgrade options as well.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Not buying. We have a Google Nexus and love it. Other than that, laptops work


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

ddkay said:


> Tablets aren't computers, they are consumption devices and will probably be for a long time. I like my laptop but there's a lot of wear & tear from carrying it all over the place and I've had to replace laptops frequently. If I was only allowed to own one computer it would be a desktop. PC desktops are pretty generous with upgrade options as well.


-prolly wouldn't have had to keep replacing a Macbook... just sayin' :biggrin:


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I actually use my iPad as a personal laptop replacement, and it works for me. I can't use it to replace my work laptop (even though there are Windows emulators available for the iPad that allow you to run the full Office suite, but you have to be online with a fast connection), but I can check my work email, read Word and Excel documents, and even mark up PDFs with comments using the iPad. I used to bring my MacBook with me on personal trips but now it's the iPad. The usable life of an iPad should be the same or longer than a laptop -- 5 to 7 years or so, which is how long I typically keep my laptops. The technology for tablets is evolving more quickly, though, so I may be forced to upgrade earlier once Apple stops supporting my model (iPad2).


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## Jim9guitars (May 5, 2012)

ddkay said:


> My iPad 2 just collected dust on my coffee table until I gave it away to my little cousin. Reading in bed gave me eye strain lol. My Sony e-reader suffered the same fate. I'm over all handheld gizmos except smartphones. The only place I can read comfortably/ergonomically is at a desk on a laptop/desktop.


Not to endorse one product over another, or hi-jack the thread, but, I recently got a Kobo Touch e-reader with some kind of new ink-screen technology that uses no back lighting and I love it. You have to have a light on to read it, just like a real paper book and you can read it clearly in the sunshine.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

brad said:


> even mark up PDFs with comments using the iPad.


Do you have an app that lets you do that? I knit from PDFs on my iPad and sometimes it would be really useful to be able to mark them up.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Spudd said:


> Do you have an app that lets you do that? I knit from PDFs on my iPad and sometimes it would be really useful to be able to mark them up.


The Adobe Reader app does that. It's free.

As for the iPad vs the competition, there's a spec breakdown here:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2012954/how-apples-ipad-mini-compares-with-android-tablets.html

Bottom line: "While Apple's new 7-inch tablet entry will likely find buyers because of the iPad name and the strength of the iOS app ecosystem, the iPad mini's specs and pricing are in many cases uncompetitive with those of other tablets its size."

Another interesting perspective (with perhaps a bit of Apple-biased spin) here: http://www.macworld.com/article/2013001/apple-and-its-competitors-the-circle-game.html


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Spudd said:


> Do you have an app that lets you do that? I knit from PDFs on my iPad and sometimes it would be really useful to be able to mark them up.


I like iAnnotate PDF. It allows markup and also is a storage system and allows multiple PDFs on tabs. Great for meetings (agenda, minutes, reports, etc).


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

brad said:


> Bottom line: "While Apple's new 7-inch tablet entry will likely find buyers because of the iPad name and the strength of the iOS app ecosystem, the iPad mini's specs and pricing are in many cases uncompetitive with those of other tablets its size."


I get the impression that the Ipad mini is soon going to be known as the "I PAID".


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I expect Apple to release a refreshed iPad mini in the first half of next year. Some of their choices, like 512 mb of RAM and a dual core processor, won't stand up for a long time. They would probably also go with a better screen.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Shouldn't this discussion be moved to the AAPL thread?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I expect Apple to release a refreshed iPad mini in the first half of next year. Some of their choices, like 512 mb of RAM and a dual core processor, won't stand up for a long time. They would probably also go with a better screen.


They probably have planned in something ahead for incremental upgrades, it's business. There is a lot more to the processor than dual core for example though, since Intel refused to build Jobs what he wanted for the iPhone, Apple is designing their own custom ARM architecture in that processor. The hardware specs in a vacuum are one thing, and how the device actually works together is an entirely other. The Ax processors are designed specifically and uniquely to work with other components and software for example, which they claim makes a difference in everything from photo quality to actual real world performance combined with efficient software.

I think it will be a hot seller for kids gifts and it just happens to be the most commercial season of the year. It's a popular ecosystem, refined simple software user experience and hassle free updates, with quality material to most shoppers who don't care about every mb of RAM and CPU spec. I've seen a lot of horror stories trying to update non Apple devices after a year or so, and while many people are still searching for used iPads online nobody can even remember what non Mac devices were sold before to search. What was that HP tablet that everyone was buying on clearance called? It's pretty easy to offload any Mac junk quickly in the classifieds.

I use other people's tablets a lot and I would find it handy as a portable reader. We used to carry a lot of books and documents for work but now everyone loads them on all their e-Readers and tablets, along with the entire wikipedia encyclopedia and some google maps. I still get along between an iPhone and the unibody MacBook Pro (both of which are easily repairable by the way according to iFixit) The new retina MacBooks/Airs and these iPads however are virtually unrepairable. Unrepairable devices is probably the way of the future but the iPad form factor doesn't do much for me besides reading.

I still need a big HDD and keyboard for travel and the iPhone is just easier to pocket/use in one hand. I've seen people replace a laptop with a 10" tablet but I don't think I'd replace a phone with a 7-8" one, and carrying around 3 devices just defeats the purpose to me.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The OS updates don't apply to Nexus 7, which will be receiving OS updates as they are available directly from Google--no carriers or OEMs to get in the way.

We'll have to wait for apples to apples benchmarking when the mini is available. But charging 60% more for inferior specs requires really making the most of the hardware you are using.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

A few years back, I gave my niece a smartphone for Christmas but she wasn't too thrilled to receive it as I had purchased the October model and she wanted the December model.

No sooner do you purchase one of these modern new gizmos than they are olde and obsolete.

I am too olde to try to keep up with the constant new introductions. Anyway, people got along without these contraptions through all of history and so I guess that I can get along without them now--aside from my nine-year-old desktop and my portable phone.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

andrewf said:


> The OS updates don't apply to Nexus 7, which will be receiving OS updates as they are available directly from Google--no carriers or OEMs to get in the way.
> 
> We'll have to wait for apples to apples benchmarking when the mini is available. But charging 60% more for inferior specs requires really making the most of the hardware you are using.


If I were to buy an Android in the future, it would have to be a Nexus for sure. You'd think a Samsung Galaxy S II from *just last year* would still be supported by Google seeing as it was one of the most popular Android devices right? Sold 28 million originally on Android 2.3 and there are widespread issues upgrading, and most just end up back on 2.3 or some custom rom (Android is up to what 4.1 now?) Apparently over half of Android devices are still running 2.3, because it's just too glitchy to upgrade. This is why usage traffic tells a better tale than sales, because people are replacing Android devices much faster and upgrading them less.

I agree 60% more is a bit much, but I think Androids are first sold at very low margins if not subsidized by the free OS (which is paid for how by the way? data mining and ads or the goodness of their hearts?) Then Apple are still sold at a premium after you factor in better materials, better support, longer lifespan, and better resale etc. If the lower specs don't actually make it slower, then you're paying for more efficient software design and energy savings etc. There can be more to it than specs is all I'm trying to portray. People seem to justify paying a premium for many other things anyways, if you enjoy using it everyday it's not really a big deal imo

According to the stats there are lots of Android users running to upgrade every time something new comes out, while laughing at the Apple lines. There are far more original iPads and iPhones actually still being used, upgraded and resold today.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Belguy said:


> Anyway, people got along without these contraptions through all of history and so I guess that I can get along without them now


It's not about the gizmo, it's what you can do with the gizmo.

If you never travel and you aren't curious by nature, you probably wouldn't have a reason to get one of these things. But imagine sitting in the airport or on a train, and having 50 years' worth of reading material and music available to you in a light, thin tablet that also gives you access to the internet, email, and apps that can help simplify your life so you can spend more time on the things that really matter.

We all got along just fine before microwaves, dishwashers, central heating, television, automobiles, and other gizmos. We can live without them. But in most cases living with them makes things possible that weren't possible before, or it saves us time, or it opens doors to new worlds.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

If you are spending a significant amount of your time on a smartphone or a tablet, it is hard for me to see where it is freeing up your time to spend on the more important things in life.

Few spend as much time with their microwaves, automatic dishwashers etc. etc. as they do with these electronic devices.

Also, where do the poor folks find the money to spend on data and cellphone plans which can cost a small fortune?

Despite the internet and all of these new gizmos, I really question whether the world is any better now than when I was a youngster back in the 'Leave it to Beaver' days of the 50's and 60's which seem, in retrospect, to be simpler and happier times than are the modern days for today's teens and 20's.

However, for the young folks of today, one day, these will likely be their 'good old days'.

I'm just grateful that I grew up in a simpler time when we had less but seemed happier.eaceful::untroubled::calm::joyous:


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## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

BELGUY, I second that (e)motion.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Belguy may be on to something there.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I heard somewhere today that the only reason why Apple has introduced the iPad Mini is to see if some people will buy ANYTHING that they bring out at whatever price!!:stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid:


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Belguy said:


> I heard somewhere today that the only reason why Apple has introduced the iPad Mini is to see if some people will buy ANYTHING that they bring out at whatever price!!:stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid:


Along with your cordless phone and XP desktop do you own a TV? A VCR maybe? If not, I can understand if you are on the extreme end of luddites, but if so, how much did a VCR cost 20 years ago, adjusted for inflation? Or any other hundreds of gadgets just 5 years ago that these new devices can now replace all of at once? Many of them cost more than a $330 iPad and and accomplished only 1 of its many many useful functions. Cable TV is very expensive recurring bill as well while a tablet can work fine on home wifi and free wifi just about anywhere... Technology is cheaper than it ever was before (well besides maybe in Canada, 3G is far cheaper elsewhere)

I would probably give up tech long before the vast majority and I totally agree about the simpler way of life. But if I could keep one gadget it would be a smartphone or tablet, for all that they do with so little power and cost. An a/c or clothes dryer use a lot of power for what they actually accomplish. I always thought people who watch television all day everyday are as bad as the new generation who stare at smartphones all day. Just because you own a smartphone doesn't mean you have to waste all your time starring at it either, and they do far more useful things than a TV. No need to paint anyone who buys these as :stupid ::stupid ::stupid ::stupid : 

I agree in general but is it really much different than people starring at the TV all night before these devices? The average person seems to have a lot more extra curricular activities now if you ask me, maybe too many. Going back to the simpler times would probably be long before the "Leave it to Beaver Days" really


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

So, Google announced today their HSPA+ device: 32 GB at $299. Comparable iPad runs $559. Yikes.

Given that carriers generally do not subsidize tablets like they do with phones, I think this price differential will have an impact.


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## Dibs (May 26, 2011)

Here is more info on the new products Google is offering. 

http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2012/10/nexus-best-of-google-now-in-three-sizes.html


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Also, the Nexus 10 (at $399), which is competitive with new iPad 32 gb (at $599), might be interesting. But then, the people buying 'new' iPad may not mind paying premium prices. I think the 7 inch space is going to end up being more price sensitive.


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## GOB (Feb 15, 2011)

I got a chance to play around with an iPad Mini today. I've also used a Nexus 7 before. 

Let's go over why *most* people would want a 7" tablet and then discuss the pros and cons of an iPad Mini vs. a Nexus 7. 

- Cost
- Portability
- Durability
- Mail/Casual browsing
- Communication
- Apps
- Movies
- Photos/Videos?

*Cost*
Not much to say here. The iPad is priced higher, in typical Apple style. However, it will certainly hold greater value as all Apple products do, but likely not enough to make it more attractive purely on cost.
Advantage: *Nexus 7*

*Portability*
The iPad Mini has slightly larger dimensions than the Nexus 7, but that's because it has a bigger screen. Despite the size increase, the iPad Mini is both thinner and lighter than the Nexus 7. It fit inside my jacket pocket and I could barely notice it was there. Since neither fit in a pants pocket, portability is roughly equal, but the iPad Mini is thinner and lighter. 
Advantage: *iPad Mini*

*Durability*
The iPad Mini is extremely well built. This is stark in comparison to the flexible plastic on the Nexus 7. The iPad is certainly more durable (initial drop tests show this) and this is important because if used daily and while commuting wear and tear is inevitable. 
Advantage: *iPad Mini*

*Mail/Casual browsing*
The iPad Mini's larger screen makes a huge difference here. It is much more usable than a widescreen 7" tablet. If you take out the requisite menu bars and headings, browsing space is about 50% greater on the iPad Mini - a staggering amount for devices of comparable size. In terms of resolution the Nexus 7 is clearly better and after using an iPhone 5 the low resolution of the iPad Mini was quite evident while browsing. However, apps and video still look good - it's just text that is noticeable. On the whole, the larger display more than makes up for the lower resolution - for me, anyway. Additionally, the 4:3 ratio works better for this rather than widescreen. 
Advantage: *iPad Mini*

*Communication*
iPad Mini is Facetime compatible which makes communication a breeze. Both tablets have front facing cameras are capable of video chats, but Apple's implementation make the iPad Mini much easier to use.
Advantage: *iPad Mini*

*Apps*
No contest here. The iPad Mini offers 275,000 fully featured tablet apps while the Nexus 7 only a handful. Most apps on the Nexus 7 will be stretched out smartphone apps which ironically negate the usefulness of the high-res display. 
Advantage: *iPad Mini*

*Movies*
The resolution and widescreen of the Nexus 7 will make it a better device for watching video.
Advantage: *Nexus 7*

*Photos/Videos*
Not completely sure if this is all that important for tablets, but the iPad Mini does have a rear facing camera and is also capable of 1080p video. The Nexus 7 has no camera. iPhoto is also very easy and probably the best quick photo/video editing option for the casual user
Advantage: *iPad Mini*


Some people will say I've cherry picked the categories that favour the iPad. Indeed, I have, but I did it because these are the things most people care about (likely most of you as well). Some things such as processing power and multitasking have been mentioned as advantages for the Nexus 7. But really, how many people would actually take advantage of these things on a small tablet? Certainly not me, and certainly not anybody I know - and that spans a wide range of age, interests and technological capabilities. I'd be willing to bet at least 75% of 7" tablet users have no idea what processor they're using and have no interest in anything but simple multitasking - they simply don't care. I see them as advantages to the people that need it, but that number is so minute that it's not really worth talking about. The A5 on the Mini is extremely smooth and quick and benchmarks show similar performance to the iPad 3 - and nobody was complaining about the power on that. I also neglected to mention integration and customer service which are clear advantages to the Mini, but not really something most people would initially think about. 

In my mind there's no question what the better option is. The main decision most customers will face is if the extra cost justifies getting an iPad Mini over a Nexus 7. I think in many cases it will. Initial sales are great, and almost every review of the iPad Mini is excellent. Both the pros and cons seem to echo my initial impressions as well.

A lot of comments are based on the cost, but they are really not comparable. I know a lot on this forum a frugal and penny pinchers. I am myself, but I also believe in a lot of cases, especially with technology, you get what you pay for.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

You're right you're not exactly an objective reviewer. The iPad mini does have some advantages even beyond what you mentioned such as stereo speakers for watching video. I do think that price is still a very big factor for many consumers. Asus has indicated that the nexus 7 had been selling pretty well at over a million units per month. Of course nexus 7 won't appeal to all consumers, for the reasons you mention, but it doesn't have to. Other makers are nipping at Apple's heels in tablets, and Apple doesn't seen to be trying too hard to stay ahead. Apple was unusually defensive about nexus and Kindle fire at the announcement.


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