# Disclosed my SIN number, should I be worried? What can I do now to protect myself?



## kaleb0 (Apr 26, 2011)

So recently my wife got a job offer for a job that's better than my own, in Montreal. So, we've come here to look for apartments and such. In the process of applying for an apartment I filled out an application for one of the apartments that we were possibly interested in.. In the course of doing this, against my best judgement, as a sort of spir-of-the-moment thing I filled in the SIN number on the application.

I've never given out my SIN number except for employment and tax purposes, and I've read it is not required (and even discouraged from disclosing) on rental applications and the like.

Now, I'm a bit paranoid. On the good side, the application was for an apartment in a big building run by a large rental company (the whole thought of "a big company wouldn't commit fraud" is comforting but perhaps not as air-tight as I'd like to think).

They also have my full name, date of birth, current address, phone number, etc. 

What has mostly gotten me paranoid, is that since I've come to Montreal I've had a lot of locals and other people who've moved here alike warning me not to trust anyone here because fraud and scams are common in this city.

What can I do to be cautious now that I've already made the mistake of disclosing that information, and secondly why the heck does a government agency put the "SIN:" field on the official application that everyone uses but then on their own FAQ advises potential tenants to practice caution and avoid disclosing this piece of information.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Why is our security infrastructures everywhere dependent on the knowledge of one's SIN number. That sounds like pretty poor security.

What are the specific dangers of public knowledge of one's SIN number?


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Don't they need your SIN number to perform a credit check on you? I remember filling in my SIN number when I was applying for my apartment. I think you're being overly paranoid.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

slacker said:


> Why is our security infrastructures everywhere dependent on the knowledge of one's SIN number. That sounds like pretty poor security.
> 
> What are the specific dangers of public knowledge of one's SIN number?


By itself, there is nothing someone can do with your SIN (someone correct me if I'm wrong). However, if they have your SIN and some other ID belonging to you (eg your driver's licence) and they look like your licence picture, then they can cause some damage if they're smart, for example apply for credit in your name.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

Sherlock said:


> *Don't they need your SIN number to perform a credit check on you?* I remember filling in my SIN number when I was applying for my apartment. I think you're being overly paranoid.


No, but it helps to make sure the info they recieve is 100% for the right person.


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## Syph007 (May 2, 2011)

I wouldn't be too worried about it. If you are worried about identity theft just make sure to keep an eye on your credit report. It's a good habit to check it once a year anyhow to make sure there is nothing out of the ordinary on it.


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## kaleb0 (Apr 26, 2011)

Just to be on the safe side I've signed up for both Equifax's and Transunion's credit monitoring services. I signed up for the 1 year service with Equifax since it is a bit cheaper than paying month-over-month (they give you a year for the price of 10 months), and the transunion one I've signed up for the monthly plan.

I hate to throw money at this, but peace of mind is priceless. If this were Toronto or something I wouldn't be so worried but Montreal is a huge fraud hub and some of the people involved with the apartment I was checking out did come off as slightly sketchy characters. It's better to be safe than sorry.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

They don't need your SIN for a credit check. I only disclose my SIN to my employer and the government. Anyone else who asks gets told where to go.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> By itself, there is nothing someone can do with your SIN (someone correct me if I'm wrong). However, if they have your SIN and some other ID belonging to you (eg your driver's licence) and they look like your licence picture, then they can cause some damage if they're smart, for example apply for credit in your name.


Hmmmm ... at one time, I changed the address where my tax refund cheque was being sent, based on only on providing my SIN on the phone so I wouldn't be so sure. I also seem to recall that when I applied for unemployment insurance benefits, my SIN was the only "private" piece information that was requested (home address, phone number etc. are pretty easy for a scam artist to get).


IAC, the Canadian Gov't says providing your SIN to those who don't need it opens up your personal information.



> The SIN is a key piece of information that may be used to obtain more of your personal data and invade your privacy. To prevent fraud and to ensure that your personal information remains private, you must protect your SIN from misuse.


URL link:
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/about/reports/sin/cop/section2.shtml


The gov't also explicitly lists "an application to rent a property" as an example of when *NOT* to provide a SIN.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sin/info/yoursin.shtml

Finally, they also say:


> Never use your SIN card as a piece of identification.


 Though gov't benefits or an employer who is paying you are exceptions.


Cheers


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

andrewf said:


> They don't need your SIN for a credit check. I only disclose my SIN to my employer and the government. Anyone else who asks gets told where to go.


You will need to add financial institutions to that list or start saving your money under your matress.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

The reason apartment buildings ask for your SIN to do a credit check is because that is the only 100% method of getting your credit. The credit bureaus claim you can get information without it, unfortunately, it is not 100% depending on how much credit you have. 

Without the SIN I've gotten many "file not founds" and even other people's credit reports and once a combined credit report (two individuals together) 

It's also a way for many apartment companies to measure reasonableness and compliance in a potential tenant. Frankly if you're being a prima donna about this issue, you may be the same way about other issues as well. 

Furthermore, the companies that are member of a credit bureau must comply with a whole host of security requirements as a condition of being allowed to get credit reports. Furthermore buildings are not usually a target for breaches of security, no one really thinks of us as having the amount of private information we do. Even without your SIN number the information contained in the average rental application is sufficient to cause serious problems if accessed by someone who wants to steal your identity. 

For the most part, this information is kept quite securely under lock and key, under video cameras. Any breach would be detected immediately, tenant files are kept in the office. Every office I have worked in has cameras. Even the mechanics of stealing the files would be considerable, most buildings are not digital and paper is heavy. The thief would have to break into an alarmed, cameraed area and remove 500lb filing cabinets without being detected. Most building have secure locking systems as well, so our thief would have to also break two locked doors without being detected. 

Now in real life you now find identity thieves stealing digital information through unsecured computers, hopefully items that are easy to turn into money such as debit and credit cards and passwords. These are stolen from point of sale terminals in places that have a lot of traffic such as gas stations and corner stores. 

If someone broke into my building they could steal only about 150 identities, with no pin numbers or bank cards or easy to monetize items. They have to break into two secured locked doors which are cameraed, the door to the building, the door to the office which has an alarm and move three 500lb cabinets through the building into a cube van without being observed or discovered. Sure once they got your SIN they could apply for a credit card or bank card in your name...but there are much lower hanging fruit to be had IMHO. Someone who has identity theft in mind would be smart enough to avoid stealing the typical tenant's identity anyways. It's not like it would be useful for anything more than stealing a couple hundred bucks. 

When you think of theft protection of any case, it's not a question of making your house impossible to break into, it's a case of making it harder to break into than your neighbour's house. Low hanging fruit again.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

andrewf said:


> They don't need your SIN for a credit check. I only disclose my SIN to my employer and the government. *Anyone else who asks gets told where to go*.


Wow, really? Nice attitude. Don't give me you SIN# when applying to rent my place and the moment you walked out the door I'd throw your application in the trash and tell you one of a thousand other reasons why you didn't get the apartment, if I gave a reason at all.

As a landlord, why should I give you my property worth 250-500k without getting your SIN #, which is the only way to verify your credit with 100% accuracy.

Why should I take the chance that you are not a deadbeat? Why put myself at risk and take the chance you won't pay your rent which will cost me thousands every month on my mortgage, propert tax, utiltity bills, insurance, court costs, eviction costs, not to mention any damage you can do to my property which could easily cost me tens of thousands more.

Let me ask you this: If you had 300k and you were going to lend it to someone would you not want to know everything about thier past credit history before you did? I'm guessing you would (if not, you have some screws loose) and thats exactly what a landlord is doing when he/she wants your SIN as they are lending you their property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Some people are really paranoid over their sin number. I wonder if their names and address are in the phone book.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

colossk said:


> Wow, really? Nice attitude. Don't give me you SIN# when applying to rent my place and the moment you walked out the door I'd throw your application in the trash and tell you one of a thousand other reasons why you didn't get the apartment, if I gave a reason at all.
> 
> As a landlord, why should I give you my property worth 250-500k without getting your SIN #, which is the only way to verify your credit with 100% accuracy.
> 
> [ ... ]


Hmmm ... let's see - the gov't of Canada who *owns* the SIN says



> Never use your SIN card as a piece of identification.


Yet it is the potential tenant's issue that the credit agencies are using the SIN inappropriately?

Since the credit agency is creating their own files - why do they need to use the SIN in the first place?

Or are you saying that the credit agencies need access to the tenant's tax records, gov't benefits etc. to determine credit worthiness?



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Some people are really paranoid over their sin number. I wonder if their names and address are in the phone book.


Really?

I wonder why the gov't of Canada who issues the SIN is paranoid ... 


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

OptsyEagle said:


> You will need to add financial institutions to that list or start saving your money under your matress.


Who says my financial institution isn't my employer ?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> The reason apartment buildings ask for your SIN to do a credit check is because that is the only 100% method of getting your credit. The credit bureaus claim you can get information without it, unfortunately, it is not 100% depending on how much credit you have.
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> ...


Yes ... the SIN is used by the credit agencies. I just wish the gov't would create a new identification number that have less attached to it or legislate that the SIN is illegal for such uses.

As for the privacy requirements on members, is being a member required to get run a credit check? Is this a new requirement? 

The last two landlords I rented didn't appear to have anything like this. The most recent was the grandson of the homeowner so unless he was running the credit checks from his real estate office, I'm doubting he had that kind of security at home. The one before had his office in his apartment so I know that at best, there was an alarm for his apartment/office. Fortunately for me, they didn't insist on having a SIN.


Finally, I'm surprised you'd believe that the typical tenant's identity is only worth a couple of hundred bucks. 

For a BC student, just the bum cheques to purchase stamps ran in the thousands of dollars, never mind the rest.
http://www.insomniacpress.com/resources/978-1-897178-46-1_sampler.pdf

In this other example, two stolen ids (a birth certificate and a SIN) was used to add a fraudulent photo id. The three pieces were all that was required for $170K. 
http://www.canlaw.com/credit/identitytheft2.htm

Bear in mind as well that according to the RCMP, in 2009 for 11,095 Canadian victims of identity theft, the loss that resulted was more than 10 million dollars. 
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/scams-fraudes/id-theft-vol-eng.htm


Of course there is even bigger money, with less risk is in fraudulent mortgages, which a tenant's package would be a gold mine for. 



Cheers


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> Hmmm ... let's see - the gov't of Canada who *owns* the SIN says
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't understand your question regarding tax records, benefits etc. Your talking about something else entirely that has nothing to do with why I want to check your credit.

A sin # is the only way to guarantee that the info I get from a credit check is 100% correct and for the right person. 

Can i do a credit check without your SIN#, yes. Can I be sure it's accurate, no.

Do you think I should lend you an asset worth hundreds of thousands of $$ without knowing if your financially responsible?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

dear colossk while you are huffing & puffing not to blow your precious 300k property down, you are overlooking the fact that the 2 parties whose lack of SINS you are bemoaning are probably the 2 very best potential tenants in the whole of canada.

they are: well-educated, rich enough, employed, steady incomes, responsible, neat as a pin, reasonable, rational, reliable, quiet & utterly desirable. Any potential new landlord could find all this out by checking their prior renting histories & their references.

sometimes obsessing over a file detail while failing to respect a whole person is self-defeating ...


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

colossk said:


> I don't understand your question regarding tax records, benefits etc. Your talking about something else entirely that has nothing to do with why I want to check your credit.
> 
> A sin # is the only way to guarantee that the info I get from a credit check is 100% correct and for the right person.
> 
> ...


Actually, it is the same thing.

You are using the SIN number to be sure the credit report is for the correct tenant. The gov't is using the SIN number to be sure the tenant's tax refund is being mailed to the correct address or that the person on the phone is the tenant and has the right to the requested information.

Here is one example of a stolen SIN number:


> A young secretary spent years trying to clear her name after a tax evader got hold of her SIN card, which the secretary had never received. The imposter used the secretary's name and SIN to move from job to job and collect unemployment insurance, health benefits, and maternity benefits — all without paying any taxes. The secretary was continually harassed by the government to settle "her" unpaid income taxes. Revenue Canada even garnisheed her bank account and earnings. The victim had to travel to each of the thief's six former employers, pleading for written statements to prove to tax officials that she herself had never worked there.


See URL:
http://www.canlaw.com/credit/identitytheft2.htm

Then too - all it took to setup another fraudster to pass bum checks to the tune of $170K was a stolen birth certificate and a stolen SIN.


As for the "lending an asset without knowing the tenant is responsible",
you misunderstand. IMHO, there should be a way of getting an accurate credit check without using such a powerful personal identifier as the SIN.


Think about it this way - say you want to rent an 80" flat screen TV for a year. How happy would you be if the rental shop said "to guarantee the TV is loaded into your car when it is picked up, please hand over your car key so a copy can be made."


Cheers


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> dear colossk while you are huffing & puffing not to blow your precious 300k property down, you are overlooking the fact that the 2 parties whose lack of SINS you are bemoaning are probably the 2 very best potential tenants in the whole of canada.
> 
> they are: well-educated, rich enough, employed, steady incomes, responsible, neat as a pin, reasonable, rational, reliable, quiet & utterly desirable. *Any potential new landlord could find all this out by checking their prior renting histories & their references*.
> 
> ...


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

Eclectic12 said:


> *there should be a way of getting an accurate credit check without using such a powerful personal identifier as the SIN.*
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers



I agree with the bolded statement but the reality is it doesn't exist.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

colossk said:


> References can easily be faked. Past landlords can easily give good references to get rid of a bad tenant. I can give a friend, or family member a great reference with them never have rented from me before. I can get a friend to pose as my employer and tell you I'm employed. There are professional tennants out there, it's an issue.
> 
> You tell me your previous landlord was Mr. X and you have a fantasic reference letter. I call Mr. X to verify, little do I know he's a friend who lying for you.
> 
> ...


WOW...is this what a typical landlord has to deal with on a daily basis?
Thank Goodness, I am not in that business.

So much for the spiel about getting someone else to pay your mortgage, while you relax on a beach sipping martinis and whispering sweet nothings to senoritas.

And apologies to Royal Mail for quoting so much text  but I think what colossk wrote above is very valuable.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

colossk said:


> [ ... ]
> 
> And you are wrong about checking the prior renting histories, it's not that simple
> 
> ...


True about references but to be complete, the credit history can be a fraud as well.

Bear in mind that the SIN plus credit check makes sure the credit history matches the person the SIN belongs to. It does not guarantee the the person presenting the rental application owns the SIN.

A stolen SIN plus the reference faking mentioned likely would pass the test.


I would think it would be an advantage to the thief as the rental provides an easy location for delivery of new Credit Cards as well as whatever is bought using the bogus CC.

Then it - with a bit if digging as well as chatting with neighbours, the thief can likely determine if rental property is a good match for title then mortgage fraud. With the right information and paperwork, the thief can register a bogus sale to their stolen identity of the rental property. A quick competition from the customer hungry lenders and the take has a nice addition of $300K.

I'm expecting the security measures have been improved but I'm not holding my breath. 

The first time I heard about this type of title/mortgage fraud was 30 years ago via a US news show. The show reported that the average time for the thief to register the bogus sale was about ten days - where the average time for the rightful owner to receive title back was two years.

Then about 10 years ago, a Canadian news show reported the same type of fraud happening in Canada with similar timeframes. 

Now title insurance has come out of nowhere so it doesn't sound like the fraud is improving.


At the end of the day - the thief is going to weigh risk/reward and if they have a less risky way, then that's what they will do.


Cheers


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Eclectic12, in the examples you linked to, the fraudster had the SIN as well as some photo ID of the victim. If you give out your SIN on an apartment application, there is no way someone can steal your identity with just the SIN and your name, he would also need a piece of your photo ID.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm with Collusk on this one. Personally I consider landlord references to be worthless. With the advent of cell phones friends and family give references and enable predatory tenants. Even if it is the landlord giving the references, they'll lie to get the bad apple out of their property. The larger landlords are complying with privacy legislation as are the larger employers. Many landlords simply refuse to give any type of reference whatsoever for tenants as their default position. Some do but require signing of a different form they fax you. 

Lots of landlords complain about the Residential Tenancies Act, but in my opinion, privacy legislation is a much larger problem in getting quality information on tenants and screening them before they become your problem. While I don't disagree with privacy laws its been a boon for the predators. 

Furthermore I'm absolutely livid with the credit reporting agencies. Transunion won't even accept judgments against the tenant coming from the Landlord & Tenant Board. Equifax will. However the process is difficult and not well known. This could be an important competitive advantage for them, and they were all proud of themselves and have even come up with a new product for landlords...a product that protects the tenant's privacy more than the standard credit report. In fact going in the exact opposite direction they should be going. Landlords pay for millions of credit reports. We deserve decent service and listing court judgments against people who prey on us would be a good start. 

I can assure you that the losses from bad tenants defrauding landlords are very high. 

I also require photo ID with an application. So far these security measures have not been defeated. No one posing as someone else has rented an apartment.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> Eclectic12, in the examples you linked to, the fraudster had the SIN as well as some photo ID of the victim. If you give out your SIN on an apartment application, there is no way someone can steal your identity with just the SIN and your name, he would also need a piece of your photo ID.


For the second link about the $170K bum check fraud - how do you know? 

The two pieces of id stolen were the birth certificate and SIN. I am not aware of SIN cards having a photo id so I take it you are saying the BC birth certificate has a photo id? That's quite different from my Ontario birth certificate.


As for the not being able to steal the identity with just SIN and name, maybe. If one reads the example in the link directly above the $170K bum check scammer:



> A young secretary spent years trying to clear her name after a tax evader got hold of her SIN card, which the secretary had never received. The imposter used the secretary's name and SIN to move from job to job and collect unemployment insurance, health benefits, and maternity benefits — all without paying any taxes.


Since I've never been asked to produce a SIN card for a job, just the number - for this type of scam, SIN plus name seems enough.


IAC - whether the SIN on it's own is enough is a red herring, IMO. 

The SIN is a major benefit to a scam artist that is used broadly for a lot of items including passports, health card, credit cards, gov't benefits, tax refunds, bank accounts etc.

IMHO - with fraud already a big problem, using the SIN for credit checks seems a risk not worth taking.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> [ ... ]
> 
> I also require photo ID with an application. So far these security measures have not been defeated. No one posing as someone else has rented an apartment.


*shrug* 

There are reports of identity thieves getting photo ID based on a combination of public and stolen info.

Unless there is some sort of sign such as not paying rent or they were arrested in your building, I'm curious as to how you would know?



Cheers


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> IAC - whether the SIN on it's own is enough is a red herring, IMO.


No it isn't. The issue is whether or not disclosing the SIN on a rental application is cause for concern. I have yet to see any evidence that the SIN on its own can be used to steal someone's identity. I'm open to being proven wrong if the evidence exists, it would definitely make me far more careful about who I give out my SIN to. You can't open a bank account with just the SIN, or a trading account, you can't get a loan, you can't rent a car... All those things need photo ID. I do agree that you shouldn't give out your SIN if you can help it, but if it's asked for on a rental application, and you want to rent in that building, then it seems silly to withhold it considering how remote the possibility is that someone could do any damage with it to you.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Since it seems like the landlord really only requires the SIN for their pre-rental credit check screening, if I were asked I would tell them the following: I don't feel comfortable writing this information on my application/lease agreement, however I will supply a separate document with my SIN that is not to be copied or attached to my rental file, and returned to me once you've done your check.
This adds very little hassle to the landlord's work, and would give me much better peace of mind.
I've had one landlord have a space for the SIN on a lease for, which I left blank, and he did not ask any further.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

Huh? That makes no sense at all.

That doesn't protect you in any way. You just gave me your SIN number. What difference does it make if it's on the rental form or some seperate piece of paper?

I now have your SIN # and when I pull your credit file your Sin # is on the file. 

Not to mention a landlord could just say OK I won't do it and then copy it anyway (which wouldn't be needed because your sin # would be on your credit report I just pulled)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'd offer to get the credit check for them if they insisted. They are not getting my SIN.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

andrewf said:


> I'd offer to get the credit check for them if they insisted. They are not getting my SIN.


Thats fine, don't give it. It's your choice and your reasons are valid. I never said they were not.

I understand the reasons for not wanting to give it out. You should be able to understand my reasons for wanting it. You don't have to rent from me and I don't have to rent to you.

Pulling your credit file and then handing it to me won't help you as your SIN # is on the file when you pull it. If you were to "black out" the SIN # on the file you just handed me the entire reason for requesting it is pointless to begin with.

Also how do i know you didn't edit your file before you gave it to me? The only way I know for sure the info is accurate is for me to pull it myself and not get it 2nd hand


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> No it isn't. The issue is whether or not disclosing the SIN on a rental application is cause for concern. I have yet to see any evidence that the SIN on its own can be used to steal someone's identity. I'm open to being proven wrong if the evidence exists, it would definitely make me far more careful about who I give out my SIN to.
> 
> You can't open a bank account with just the SIN, or a trading account, you can't get a loan, you can't rent a car... All those things need photo ID.
> 
> I do agree that you shouldn't give out your SIN if you can help it, but if it's asked for on a rental application, and you want to rent in that building, then it seems silly to withhold it considering how remote the possibility is that someone could do any damage with it to you.


Okay ... let's see if I've got this straight.

If SIN on it's own could be used to open a bank account etc., there would be a concern. 

Where the SIN was only 50% of the info need (i.e. incident using SIN + name), there is no concern? Even though it required years of effort to clear the victim's name? 

Or how about SIN + relatively public info to get a credit card? The most difficult piece of info on the CC application from the local bank is the SIN, with the rest requiring minimal to medium effort to obtain. 


As for rental applications - if you are confident that landlord is following through on the security measures, including any computers or copiers they use - then feel free to include the SIN.

As I mentioned previously - I'm not convinced the last two landlords I rented from were protecting my personal information and I chose not provide my SIN.


As for the remote possibility of harm - I guess it depends on how much time/risk tolerance one has. With reported cases of identity theft victims having to invest a lot of time to keep proving themselves innocent over long periods of time (ex. twenty years), once is too much for my taste.


Come to think about it - I'm trying to avoid identity theft number two. 
Years ago, I received a call from a collection agency, demanding I pay for tapes I hadn't paid for. Trouble was I didn't signup for nor did I receive any tapes. The fraud was based on my name and previous address.


Cheers


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

colossk said:


> Huh? That makes no sense at all.
> 
> That doesn't protect you in any way. You just gave me your SIN number. What difference does it make if it's on the rental form or some seperate piece of paper?
> 
> ...


It doesn't protect you from malicious landlords no, but it keeps your SIN disassociated with the other info provided on an application should that piece of paper fall into the hands of any one else in the next 30 years. I don't know what a landlord does with leases forms in the distant future, maybe he shreds them, maybe they get left behind when he moves or sells his rental or gets divorced and his wife gets the house and her new boyfriend is in the business of stealing identities.
I also see no need for a landlord to keep a credit report on file once he has viewed it, and come to the conclusion that I'm credit worthy. I would ask for that document to be returned as well.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Sherlock. Good post. Agree. Paranoia runs pretty deep around here.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Square Root said:


> Sherlock. Good post. Agree. *Paranoia runs pretty deep around here*.


That's putting it mildly.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ So you are all willing to post your SIN on this forum? After all, it is not sufficient for identity theft.

To me it is about risk management. You cannot eliminate the risk of identity theft, but you can optimize your risk. As a potential tenant, I have very little incentive to hand over my SIN to possibly sketchy landlords (they abound). Everyone else I give it to is governed by privacy legislation. Landlords have no idea that such legislation exists. For all I know they will just toss it in the recycling bin along with the a bunch of other identifying information.

I don't think it's paranoid to take steps to reduce the risk of identity theft. It can be financially devastating.


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

andrewf said:


> ^ So you are all willing to post your SIN on this forum? After all, it is not sufficient for identity theft.
> 
> To me it is about risk management. You cannot eliminate the risk of identity theft, but you can optimize your risk. As a potential tenant, I have very little incentive to hand over my SIN to possibly sketchy landlords (they abound). *Everyone else I give it to is governed by privacy legislation. Landlords have no idea that such legislation exists.* *For all I know they will just toss it in the recycling bin along with the a bunch of other identifying information.*
> I don't think it's paranoid to take steps to reduce the risk of identity theft. It can be financially devastating.



I am bound by the exact same privacy legislation as is every other landlord. 

I can't just get a sin # and then pull a credit file, it's not that simple. I have to apply to the credit bureau to be allowed to access the information, before I am allowed to pull a credit file. it involves filling out forms, proving my identity, agreeing to be bound to the "privacy laws" (if I don't, I face stiff fines and possible jail time) verify I have a reason to pull your file, verify proof of ownership of the rental property, give them countless documents, rental applications etc.

Once that is done then they come to my Home and to a "site Inspection" The site inspection is to verify my identity and the documents they already received. Then they go about making sure I meet certain condiditons, locked designated office, locked file cabinet,locking desk, Shredder etc. Once they have verified that My "office" meets the conditions than I can pull a credit file.

Some landlords don't care about a SIN #, they are your mom and pop landlords you read about in the paper that had 50k in damages done to their property and they couldnt evict the tenant for over a year because they got hit by a "pro tenant". A credit chekc is the best tool a landlord has for avoiding complications down the road


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Regardless of whether they are inspected or not, I expect any DIY landlord to be incompetent and careless with my personal information. Hell, many major corporations are negligent when it comes to protecting the privacy of their customers.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Regardless of whether they are inspected or not, I expect any DIY landlord to be incompetent and careless with my personal information. Hell, many major corporations are negligent when it comes to protecting the privacy of their customers.


I presume you are not a renter? Good thing as you seem pretty skeptical about landlords.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I currently rent and have rented several apartments in the past. I've always declined to give my SIN and it's never been a problem.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

*sim for payment of interest*



Square Root said:


> I presume you are not a renter? Good thing as you seem pretty skeptical about landlords.


Avoid sketchy landlords, tenants are vulnerable. 

As far as SIN, on the application the landlord wants it for a credit heck, which you can refuse. 
However in your file, the landlord may require it as they must pay interest on your last months rent in Ontario. I don't know if they have to report it or not, but that is one loophole. 

Having rented several times, properly managed apartments are worth the extra cash. Sketchy, unprofessional landlords are a problem, identity theft or not.


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