# Goals: Debt, Wedding, House.



## sears_sucks (Apr 28, 2009)

I in my early thirties and my fiance is in her late twenties. Our goals are to pay down debt, have a wedding in just over a years time and to purchase a home after that. I am not sure how and if we will get there, but we are going to try.

Gross Income:

Me: Office job 45k
Her: Public Sector job at 57k
Total: 102k

Equity -

Cash: Approximately $1300 combined
Questrade acct holding: XIU $2380 (Non-Registered)

Pension stuff:

RPP(DCPP with matching) - 14k
Public Sector pension: no idea how to calculate

Combined Debt:

M/C 1 Card 0% till end of march 2012 : $3976
M/C 2: $200
Presidents Choice M/C: $0
M/C 3: $914.89
Car Finance charge: $7147 (left) paid down monthly
Debt Consolidation Loan @5.99%: $9325
Student LOC: $12245 @4% (prime +1)
Lifelong learning plan: $8600 has to be paid back in 10 years

Aftertax/deductions income: could fluctuate probably not much

$2450
$2800
*$5250/month*



*Expenses: *
*Fixed-*
Rent: $1250 2bdrm all inclusive 
Parking: $75 2 spots
Monthy Car pmt: $261/month
Loan repayment: $230/month
LOC repayment: $400/month
Insurance: $251/month (2cars tenants)
LLP repayment: ($100/month) via $25 weekly ASP into ING steetwise fund. (RRSP)
Total: $2567/month

*Variable-*
Gas - $550 between 2 vehicles
Food - $300 - estimate
Cell Phones - $110
Cable - $40
Total: $1000
*
Total Expenses: $3567/month*

*Leftover each month $5250 - $3567 = $1683*

Plan:

-Setup joint account to dump pay cheques into.
$300 * 2 = $600 - will go into our own seperate accounts for financial independence. 
$600/month - For additional debt repayment
$500/month or whatever is left goes to TFSA savings account.

Options:

Downsizing to a 1 bedroom apt: Rent goal $950 or less would create a savings of $300 a month or $3600 a year. What do you guys think? Has anyone here ever downsized like this before? The extra bedroom is nice but is it really necessary?

Me finding a better job with more income. Could be possible but I don't want to start for less than what I am making now, even if I could potentially earn more down the road.

Goals:

Pay down Debt
Wedding: Realistic estimate of ($10k-$15k)
Downpayment: Save something or at least get into a habit of saving for one


Now sure how this is going to go, but this is a money diary so I will try to keep updated. If anyone has any advice or has been in a similar situation, feel free to help.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

A few thoughts:

What is the point of the XIU holding? If that is part of an emergency fund/short term savings, it should be invested in something safer. If not, I would use it to pay down debt.

I wouldn't downsize unless you are really committed to knocking off your debts quicker. You aren't in bad financial shape, so I would be hesitant to make such a big change for the sake of a few hundred bucks per month.

It probably goes without saying, but make sure you focus on the credit cards first.

I would also think about just paying the minimum payment for the LLP. There is no (technically) interest on that loan and you are basically repaying yourself.

It looks like you've got something like $40k in debts. Not great, but certainly doable with your salaries and expenses.

The wedding costs will basically have to be added to your debt. You might want to work out different repayment schedules with different wedding cost estimates and see if that motivates you to have a cheaper wedding.

Regarding the house - I would get going on debt repayment and wait until the wedding is over before even analyzing a house purchase.

At that point, you'll be able to nail down how much you owe, how long it will take to pay off, save up down payment etc and then you can decide if downsizing/getting part time job etc would be worthwhile or not.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

If it was at all workable, ditching one of your cars would make a much bigger difference in your bottom line than reducing your rent by the amount you are describing. 

I have to say I'm a tiny bit worried by the amount of debt you are carrying relative to your ages, income, and savings. My concern is not so much that you have debt, but that you have debt with a combined gross income of $100K and no real financial responsibilities (kids and house). 

How long have you had the incomes you have now? 

I hope those questions don't seem too intrusive.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Good break down which should help those tying to help you.
I noticed you estimated $300 a month for food. You should try to track it for the next two months.

I have been for 4 months now, and with never dining out two people we cannot seem to get that bill below $450 a month, so $300 seems very low to me. And you could be spending more than double your estimate.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

When we were just a couple we went from a three bedroom house to a very small one bed apartment and didn't notice any difference (once we pared down our stuff and squeezed the rest in). 

Your money diary will be informative. I suspect you spend more then you think. You're not bad off. I second the consider ditching a car idea. Again -- depends on where you live and your job responsibilities -- but that was something else we did that was surprisingly painless. Also look at paring down cell phone and cable plans. 

FP provided good advise on ordering. I'd pay down the LOC (and cc's) before putting money into TFSAs. And I'd pay minimums on LLP.

And make sure your fiance is on board! (that may be the most important thing ).


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I know weddings are important and most(esp)women more so than men dream about them but....it's sounds like you are both tackling your finances and are committed- what about considering a justice of the piece signing with a few close family and friends?10-15k is a good chunk of $,maybe go on a get-away after even(like a 5k exculsive)or maybe if your lucky enough(if its possiable a backyard wedding?)....You could always do something special later on with a re-newing vows?I know somethings are non negotiale so that may be offside..but an idea.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I really think it depends on how badly you want to get out of debt, and save. If you're willing to take the plunge, I would consider moving into a smaller place to save some money. I would also do a really detailed expense record for a couple of months.

As MoneyGal stated, for your incomes, you do seem to have a lot of consumer debt. I understand the school, and even the vehicles, but the rest of the debt, I would question how that came about. I would try and pay off your debt first. 

For the wedding, I would see if there is really any where you can save or reduce the costs on. It may seem like the most important date, but it is truly just one day. 




jamesbe said:


> I noticed you estimated $300 a month for food. You should try to track it for the next two months.
> 
> I have been for 4 months now, and with never dining out two people we cannot seem to get that bill below $450 a month, so $300 seems very low to me. And you could be spending more than double your estimate.


$450 for two people seems really high. I live in an expensive area, and with 3 adults and 2 kids, I was able to get it down to as low as $400/month (that was with ALOT of effort), even without as much effort now, I'm able to get it for about $600/month.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

No possibility of carpooling, public transit, cycling? 

Two cars is probably the norm. You aren't doing anything unusual. 

The problem I see is that if you rack up debt when you have healthy incomes (but it doesn't sound like you've necessarily done that), it is very difficult to keep your head above water if anything interrupts those incomes. Like if you can't make it work when you are just two people renting an apartment, then life starts to get pretty difficult when you are owning a house and you have one or more children (because now you have way more expenses and reduced income during a maternity leave or two). 

As for food costs: we feed four people - two kids (who basically eat like adults at this point) and two adults, and we spend about $500 a month. I find $450 for two adults really high, personally (we've had this discussion before, though!).

There is - I think - a common trend on this board in that a large fraction of the people here seem to have made the decision that they are willing to do unconventional things in order to meet larger goals, like early financial independence. Whether that looks like taking on serious DIY investing projects or fairly serious frugality measures, you are not going to find a lot of people here saying, "I am going to live a 'regular' lifestyle and expect unusually good financial results." 

What those unconventional behaviours are varies from poster to poster, but I think the existence of unconventional behaviours is correlated with financial success. For example, for a long time I did very meticulous tracking of our spending and I still do pretty close tracking. 

I personally really dislike large regular cash outflows over which I have little control, so we really really minimize car expenses. Although my husband and I both commute 10K-ish to work (his commute is longer than mine), we bought a house about 5 minutes from a 24-hour streetcar and we will not take work situations which require driving (both of us commute by bike, actually). (Our total gas expenses in 2011 were less than $1000.)

I am making this really long and I'm not sure it is adding anything but the message I am trying to get across is that (1) mainstream culture is not really set up to have people succeed financially (hence the prevalence of consumer debt - we live in a society in which people REALLY BELIEVE that money solves problems) and (2) if you want to have anything other than average results in the financial part of your lives, you are going to have to take unusual, non-mainstream actions (or perhaps you will get really, really lucky). The trick is to find which behaviours are going to work for you, and then implement those over time. Good luck!


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## Mensa (Oct 19, 2010)

Kudos to MG for the final paragraph above! Very succinct and on point.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

sears_sucks said:


> Me finding a better job with more income. Could be possible but I don't want to start for less than what I am making now, even if I could potentially earn more down the road.


Why wouldn't you want to do this? 

No offence, but you're not exactly raking it in at your current job.

Are there other things about your job that you really like and would make it hard to leave? Is there potential at that job?

There is only so much you can do on the frugality/budget side of things. Once you get financial situation straightened out, making more income can make a huge difference.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I agree with FP. The most important activity now (other than wedding planning) is to find a well-paying job. Then focus on being employed close to home. Then find way to get rid of one car. Then find a way to eat in more often (joint cooking classes).

If you achieve these 3 things, you will find the path to financial independence much easier.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Don't want to throw this off topic too much. Food must be more expensive in Ottawa or something. My g/f is a coupon freak, only buys stuff on sale and with coupons and we still can't get it below $400 a month.

My co-worker said him and his wife spend $800 a month for the two of them on Groceries (they also never eat at restaurants). A bag of milk these days is $6 and a box of cereal is $6 that's breakfast for me for a week that's $12 just for breakfast! We do buy in bulk though which means most likely we could go a month on what we do have stored away, but we always keep it stocked.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Actually the key point here is that the OP's life seems to be moving faster than his ability to keep up with it financially. They have all this debt and want to get married and move into a house? No emergency fund? Not to take away from the repayment progress they've already made but it's my opinion that they need to slow it down and get their financial house in order (ie. pay ALL debt and establish emergency fund AND save the 20% down payment and save for moving expenses) before even thinking about getting married and buying a house, which will lead to babies, vacations, new cars (ie. more $$$$$$) etc. 

Slow it down and take a few years to get your finances in order before making any further large expenditures.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

kcowan said:


> I agree with FP. The most important activity now (other than wedding planning) is to find a well-paying job.


While I don't necessarily disagree with this, the reality is that the OP's combined household income is already in the top 20% of household incomes in Canada, and there's only two people in the house and no mortgage (plus they are at the outset of their careers - so their employment income can be expected to rise over time, and this comparison is for *all* household incomes in Canada - they are more likely in the top 10% of all households, once you adjust for family size and age). 

So whether the OP gets a better-paying job or not, his expenses are high relative to his earned income. 

IMO, the thing to get under control is that ratio of expenses / earned income. If expenses rise as income rises, the OP is no better off. 

In Millionaire Next Door terms, the OP is an underaccumulator of wealth. 

(OP, I apologize if this sounds harsh.)


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> IMO, the thing to get under control is that ratio of expenses / earned income. If expenses rise as income rises, the OP is no better off.


Agreed. Get a handle and direction on the finances first.

The detailed breakdown of his finances indicates to me that they seem to have a good handle on their current situation.

Now I think they need to figure out a plan which will include their goals - ie do they sacrifice a lot in order to pay off their debts quickly or do they go slower? etc etc. I think help with that is really what the OP came on here for.

It may not be an easy task - especially with two people.


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## Brenner (Jan 17, 2012)

sears_sucks said:


> *Variable-*
> Gas - $550 between 2 vehicles
> Food - $300 - estimate
> Cell Phones - $110
> ...


I think you must be grossly under estimating your variable spending. As others have mentioned, $300/m in food for 2 people is rather low. That's about $5 a day each. This might be possible if you never dinned out, never bought lunch, etc. No entertainment budget? No vacations? Your spouse is a teacher is does nothing all summer long? No hobbies at all that spend money on? We just went through Christmas, did you buy no one gifts? What about birthdays, fathers day, mothers day? I know when I tallied this up for myself I was shocked and I am not a overly generous person. I know you are renting but you still have to clean the apartment and yourself. Household cleaning supplies, personal hygiene products, hair cuts? I could go on and on, but I would say you could easily be underestimating your variable expenses by $300-500. 

You need to be honest about your upcoming wedding. Are you going to receive help from parents? If not you may need to make some compromises. Weddings are not cheap, can easily be $100-150 per guest + $5000. You'll receive gifts, which may be mostly cash in your position, but it wont cover the cost.

The two biggest life changes I think you can make are #1 cutting a car, and #2 downsizing. You may be able to do both at the same time. I would move into either walking distance or easy public transit to one of your places of work and get rid of the second car. A 2nd car in a family of two has very little marginal use other than simply getting you to work. I know this might be easier said than done but look into it. 

Having said that, your seem to be definitely on the right track. I would just keep focusing on paying down debt. I wouldn't even think about buying a house right now, don't get tempted by lower rates. Pay down debt, get married, and see where your finances are in 2-3 years.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> So whether the OP gets a better-paying job or not, his expenses are high relative to his earned income.
> 
> IMO, the thing to get under control is that ratio of expenses / earned income. If expenses rise as income rises, the OP is no better off.
> 
> ...


I agree. I was trying to add to his thought process rather than duplicate what others are suggesting. 

But the best time to try to get into a higher paying career is before wedding and mortgage make his earnings essential to survival.

It will also help to make sure that both of them are on the same page about life. Finding any conflict is better right away than later.


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## Brenner (Jan 17, 2012)

sears_sucks said:


> Pension stuff:
> 
> RPP(direct contribution with matching through sunlife) - 14k
> Teachers pension: no idea how to calculate
> ...


I would stop paying the LLP. You don't actually have to pay it back, what you don't pay will just get added your income for tax purposes over the 10 years. You will have to pay tax on it, but I'd rather put the $100 toward debt retirement. 

I would keep up with your RPP though since your company matches, retirement savings are important. But I would ditch any RRSP outside of that. You seem to be a classic case of the TFSA being a better option if you needed a savings vehicle.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I'd think it comes down to the wedding and house. That's truly the make or break at this point.

Try to come out of the wedding with no additional debt. It can be done if you're careful, and realize that it is one day.

I'm not saying go down to city hall sign a form and that's it. But If you could handle the wedding and the honeymoon for about 10k-15k, it could be doable.

Are there kids in your future? If so, you do kind of have to get moving on the whole thing. 30 and 28 isn't old, but in 10 years, you're kinda past the prime kid having age. Again, not to say it can't be done. But do you want to be 60 years old with a 20 and an 18 year old living at home?

You may want to look at a different job, but I wouldn't be willing to take too much of a hit.

The fact that your girlfriend is a teacher helps a tonne. A good retirement is pretty much certain, so I wouldn't worry about the long term at this point.

I'd just hammer away at the high interest debt, and create some savings over the next 12 months. Sell the XIU and put it to debt.

I'm struggling with the issue of debt vs. savings. Normally I'd pay down debt, but if you want to buy a home, you're going to need a big down payment to avoid mortgage insurance. 

I can't see a clear way out for the next 5-7 years.


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## Saniokca (Sep 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> I am making this really long and I'm not sure it is adding anything but the message I am trying to get across is that (1) mainstream culture is not really set up to have people succeed financially (hence the prevalence of consumer debt - we live in a society in which people REALLY BELIEVE that money solves problems) and (2) if you want to have anything other than average results in the financial part of your lives, you are going to have to take unusual, non-mainstream actions (or perhaps you will get really, really lucky). The trick is to find which behaviours are going to work for you, and then implement those over time. Good luck!


great paragraph. 

On another note, you guys/gals are getting too soft here 
"not too intrusive" "no offence"

This is the one place I don't mind when people call me an idiot and tell me what their opinion is without sugarcoating. Maybe I should start a rant thread about this!

Anyway, while not adding anything new, I'll add my vote:
1) get rid of debt before spending on a wedding. I say it from personal experience. 

2) Incomes are fine for now it's the expenses that are killing you. 2 cars is a huge luxury - especially when you're a renter. Get out of that place and get one close to transit/work. If you cut your cars in half that's $400, if you get the rent down - that's another $300. Now you can get rid of debt in under 2 years.

3) Forget about buying a house before 1&2 are done and you have at least a 20% down payment.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

we were really lousy at budgeting. No idea what we spent on food any other line item. But what we did, that worked for us, was to simply live on one income. The other income was fully banked. Somehow, we live frugally when in college or just starting out but expenses quickly balloon with an increase in income -- without much additional fun. So the rent/car/cable/phones question became, 'can we afford this on one income' rather then 'can we afford it on two.'


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm the big softie. Or, alternately, if you read the Globe and Mail comments, I'm a succubus. 

I'm with you, though. The car expenses are huge relative to their income. 20% of available income is going to car expenses. That's just...insane, as they have to earn (current annual car expenses * 1 + marginal tax rate) to actually pay that each year.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I missed Charlie's post. I actually totally agree with this and it's been the way that we've succeeded financially in my family. 

IMO necessary expenses should only consume 50% of available income, and then you divide the rest between savings and "fun money." 

You can play around with the percentages to find a way that works for you, but ultimately if you "can't afford to save" and you "can't afford fun," you actually can't afford your life. 

Elizabeth Warren's book (with her daughter) The Two-Income Trap and her follow-up book, All Your Worth were very instrumental for me in clarifying and solidifying my views about the "affordability" of middle-class life in a two-income family.


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## Saniokca (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm also with Charlie - that's what me and my gf are essentially doing now. It's also great because when maternity arrives - there's absolutely no stress. You just suspend the savings for a bit.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I think you guys are all in a dream world. 

Sure, it's nice to save 50% of income, but that is pretty much an ideal for a couple that already has their finances in good order and are committed to saving that much.

Most people aren't going to do it. If you tell someone they 'should' be saving 50% or if you tell them they have to pay off their debts, save cash for the wedding, save 25% for the house and establish 187 tiers of savings - they are just going to run away.

It has to be up to the couple (ie both of them) to decide what they want to do. An expensive wedding could mean delaying a house by a couple of years - is that what they want? Too much debt could mean delaying having babies or could result in a shorter mat leave. 

All these things tie together and it's up to the couple to evaluate their situation and make the appropriate plans.

In terms of ratios - they net $5250/month and their expenses are $3567/month which is 68%. You also have to keep in mind that the higher salary has a good pension, so retirement savings are at least partially covered.

They have enough cash flow to reduce and eliminate the debts in a reasonable amount of time. They pay about $1000/month for various debt repayments. If they can eventually pay those off - their expense ratio will go down to $2567 which is 49% and is quite good.

This doesn't include the fact that the cars will have to replaced at some point, but regardless it's not bad at all.

Should they go hard (one car/smaller apt etc) and try to pay it off ASAP? Probably. But, if they don't - they can still end up in a very good financial place as along as they don't bury themselves with a big wedding and house too soon.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Mike - you are totally right. I do actually live in that dream world. 

I don't expect anyone else to do it. I really don't. I said upthread that the OP wasn't doing anything unusual. 

But I have a real, genuine concern about people entering their 30's with very good incomes and a negative net worth (and no unusual circumstances to explain it). 

I just don't see how that is workable, either; just like how you say 187 layers of savings and one car isn't workable (I should note that !contrary to popular wisdom! I do not have any layers of savings as TRM outlines). 

I honestly believe that the dominant conversation [not here] around these issues makes them much more complex than they actually are. You can't say you are going to remain in debt until you are 35 from expenses in your 20s while adding a mortgage, a wedding, and potentially babies and many years of car depreciation and car replacement and escalating gas and insurance costs - it doesn't work. 

Instead, you end up unhappy in your 40's because you *still* aren't where you want to be, and now retirement starts looming as something you need to handle (and maybe PSE for your kids plus their dental work plus your own lifestyle inflation, like now you want to go on cruises every year because you've put in many years in the workforce and "you deserve it") but you haven't handled the debt you acquired in your 30's. 

IMO this is the source of so much angst in the people I know, talk to and see in the "financial facelift" sections of MoneySense and so on. 

I guess my retort back to you is what is really unworkable? The choices I am making or the lifestyle I'm describing in those last few paragraphs? The choices are not as stark as I am making out but thousands of tax returns over the past 10 years tells me that I'm really and truly not far off in what I'm saying.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

@MG

I'm also living the dream. 

I don't think any of the plans anyone has suggested (especially you) are unworkable - but rather, it's the approach that isn't likely to succeed.

Most people don't want to live off one income - if you tell them that they should, they'll likely go elsewhere for help.

Saving 25% for a downpayment is nice, but the reality for most couples is that they can't do it. By "can't", I mean they don't have the patience to save up a big chunk of cash for their down payment.

Obviously this couple has made some financial mistakes in the past, but it's not all bad. Half of their debt (and possibly more) resulted from the decision to return to school. I don't know if that was a good decision, but I'd rather see student loans than unsecured student debt.

People in the real world don't deal with absolutes - they buy houses when they have consumer debt with a small down payment. They have weddings even if it hurts them financially.

In my opinion, constructive advice has to consider the goals of the OP. If they are going to get married next year with a $15k wedding - fine, I'm not going to try to talk them out of it. What I'd rather do is incorporate that expense into their debt repayment plan and move on. Is that ideal? Far from it, but it's workable.

Buying a house anytime soon? No, I don't think that is workable, unless they can cut back a fair bit and skip the wedding.

I'd love to say to this OP to pay off all their debt in less than two years, then save up cash for a wedding, then save for a house etc etc, but I doubt they'll do it and who am I to say that they should follow the optimum path?

In my case, I had about $5k of consumer debt when I bought my house. I have no idea why I couldn't pay it off, but it was there. I also only put down 11% on my first house. 

It probably would have been better for me to pay off that debt and save up the remaining 14% down payment, but at this point I can honestly say it doesn't really matter.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Four Pillars: I certainly agree with the spirit of your post, and I think we do tend to focus on "optimized" solutions that aren't necessarily always a fit for people.

At the same time, I think the alternative viewpoints, even if they may not seem realistic to the OP, are extremely beneficial, even some which may seem a bit radical. It opens up new ideas, and while it may not lead to anything, there's great value in the willingness to re-think certain concepts. The OP is willing to downsize their living space to save $3,600 a year, so they're definitely open to change. 

I certainly value both yours and MG's opinions and you both make very valid points throughout, but I am really concerned about the OP's current situation. It's not that it can't work out; but there's a lot more risk than I'm comfortable with. Again, not my life, but the OP should at least really consider it.

The debt is a major concern. We're talking over $40K, with another $10-$15K coming for a wedding (and my guess is closer to $15 than $10 since these things can balloon pretty quickly), and I'm not totally comfortable with the expense numbers so I'm not sure how much of that debt re-payment is realistic. 

Are there no dinners out, no coffees, or does the $300/month cover all that? Personal care, clothing, entertainment, gifts? 

Oh, and a house down-payment. Sure, 25% may not be possible for many, but right now 5% is a stretch.

So I guess what I'm taking forever to say is that I think there's a lot of benefit in the OP re-considering some of these goals and timelines and not just factoring in that is all they want. The cost of the wedding alone would be enough for a minimum down-payment on a house almost anywhere in Canada*. 

The OP is certainly able to go about their plan and have $30 or $40K in debt when putting a small down-payment on a house, but there are serious risks associated with that, and any small interruption of income could be devastating.

*Offer not valid in Vancouver, Toronto, or any major city.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

This is spot on, in my view (I'm starting to wonder if the OP is going to regret having posted...!)

And to add to what FN has said - it isn't just an interruption in income that is worrisome - it's setting up a lifestyle that depends on two uninterrupted incomes. As in: "we need cars to get to work" versus "we will make it work with one car." 

Because if you DO lose your income, your fixed costs are going to include car payments (if you have them) and car insurance (unless you are willing to shelve the car totally). And parking. And gas. 

It sets up a lifestyle that means its difficult for you to cut back if/when you need to - or when you want to. It's one thing when you're renting, because it's easier to move - but once you own, especially with a small downpayment you are much more restricted in the choices you can make to reduce costs. You can't just move closer to one workplace or to transit.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

@FN & @MG - I don't disagree with your comments. I guess the evaluation of their current situation really depends on what the OP does in the future. If they can minimize the wedding cost, avoid buying a house and focus on their debts - I believe they can be in a good place financially in no time.



MoneyGal said:


> (I'm starting to wonder if the OP is going to regret having posted...!)


I suspect this is fairly common among first time posters here.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Interesting topic. I'm not married yet but have been thinking about the long-term prospects of getting involved with someone and how important finances are. I'm turning 32 this year and I've been with my current gf for over a year. We have very different financial situations. I make roughly double what she makes, and I don't make all that much (80k), but there is potential in her career to make more (she's in financial services). I've never carried debt but she has some due to being a recent graduate from school and a different family situation. I am not sure what the exact amount is, but recently she's talked about how it's been difficult for her to reduce on her current salary. The thought of getting married and spending an "average" amount of $ on engagement, wedding, etc. is scary to me, while she still carries debt. I'm the type of person who hates debt of any kind, even buying a home and carrying a mortgage is something I've avoided even though I could afford it.

I know it's a topic that I should discuss with her, but I find it a delicate topic to touch on, esp. when we've just started talking about a future together and emotions are already entangled...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Logged out: those conversations are easier now, when they are "theoretical," than later, when the stakes are much much higher.


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## RoR (Jan 18, 2012)

Finance is one of the top reasons for divorce. I would get all uncomfortable topics out of the way. Trying to muddle through it after you're married isn't good, or fun. Ask me how I know. We're on the same page now, but it took awhile to get there.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

loggedout: I think you need to have those conversations sooner rather than later. 

Money can seem like an awkward subject, but when you really think about it, what you are really talking about is your future, your common goals, your life together.

It's essential that you can find a way to discuss these types of issues with someone you're planning on spending the rest of your life with.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

financialnoob has it right.

I discussed this with my ex and it became clear very early on that this was going to be a problem. Even if the mgmt of finances came over to me, there was still a spending problem on her side and since she was earning the money why should she do without? It was that sort of thing. I tried to help her out and show her a spreadsheet but I could see she wasn't really interested. Although things ended between us, I am glad we talked about it BEFORE going too far down the road. The issue will resurface at any time if you simply gloss over and ignore it and financial mgmt is far too important to leave to chance. IMO you have to work this out beforehand and if you cannot then you have to make a decision. The earlier you do this, the better.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Thankfully, my wife and I are of "one mind" when it comes to finances. By no means should money management be one of the foundations of a marriage... but... well, maybe it should.


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## Pigzfly (Dec 2, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> I'm the big softie. Or, alternately, if you read the Globe and Mail comments, I'm a succubus.


Ya... but there's a LOT of mud flinging in those comments. Though the ones at the Nat'l Post are a lot more rampant with conspiracy theorists!


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh, I don't even read the online comments. Someone I know pointed out that succubus comment to me and I thought it was hilarious!


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## Pigzfly (Dec 2, 2010)

@MG
Good call... it is often much safer to avoid. Sometimes I succumb to temptation and immediately regret being sucked into reading them!


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I see what you did there, pigs.


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## Pigzfly (Dec 2, 2010)

I second the agree on finances early in the relationship!

@sears - you could also try calling everyone's favourite angry lady on TV - Gail - and have her crack a budget whip at you.
(I jest)

I bet that the cost of relocating, unless it does something like eliminate the need for a second car, isn't terribly justifiable.

If your partner is indeed a schoolteacher, any summer work she could pick up, with the motivation of putting it towards a wedding? Sideline tutoring?

I would recommend making sure you have nice access to a line of credit, then ditch the stock (as long as you're not going to take a huge hit) and everything you can easily liquidate, then put it against your highest cost debt. That should make a good dent in the more expensive stuff and get you to a spot where you're seeing the debt drop a lot more rapidly. Are those monthly use of your CCs or balances you're carrying? If so - pay those off ASAP, then apply that money to the car loan (what's the rate?) or the consolidation loan. 

No internet cost? Included in rent?

What are the chances you could reduce your personal money to $250 from $300? That gives you another $100/month for debt repayment. My rough math is that you have 4 years left on the consolidation loan and you can take more than an entire year off by applying an extra $100/month, while saving almost half of the interest costs.


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