# Is CIBC Wood Gundy trying to get clients with a free dinner?



## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Here's something that arrived in the mail today.



> The <a local Investment Advisor firm, who specializes in providing individuals, families and corporations with full-service financial advice, and who appears to be under the umbrella of CIBC managment> along with CIBC Wood Gundy, cordially invite you to attend a special dinner at the <prestigious golf club> featuring:
> 
> <Vice-President of an Investment management company>
> We will be addressing the common questions and concerns affluent investors have in this changing investment environment:
> ...


I am not, and have never been, a client of either CIBC or CIBC Wood Gundy. My questions are:

Why would they send me this invitation, if I'm not a current client of CIBC?
Are they actually trying to convince a small-time guy like myself to move my portfolio over from TDW to CIBC Wood Gundy?
Is this going to be a high-pressure pitch, like that time I got tricked into going to a "timeshare sales" event?
Or am I just over-reacting? ie. Chill. They are just providing knowledge/information.

If I'm not doing anything that evening, I'm almost tempted to RSVP and go enjoy my free roasted beef tenderloin. 
Then I would excuse myself from the table and say, "see ya never. <burp>"

What do you guys think? 
Have you come across similar invitations? 
i.e. Is this a common tactic to get new clients?


----------



## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Maybe you should forward to the email to all of us so we all can go


----------



## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

I've been to a CIBC event where they had a "tax talk" along with appetizers. It was a CIBC sponsored event for CIBC customers with no "sell" pressure at all. However, I'm not sure what the "dinner" will be like, especially since you aren't a client!


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I got this in the mail as well.
I do have some business with CIBC (credit card), but no investment business.

The requirement to participate in this event is $500K in investable assets, it's somewhere there in the fine print.


----------



## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

You should call up your ''contact'' or investment rep @ waterhouse......something like this:So tuesday i'm having dinner with wood gundy,when should i pencil in our steak dinner,i would like a chat(you have a expense acct for things like this right?It's stuffy in the office anyways,let's get to know each other ''joe'')Lol


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

The frugal side of me would go for the free dinner but don't buy any mutual funds  Especially if this is fine dining with alcohol, that's a good free dinner. Any moneyfourm members want to go? We can bash mutual funds at the table. People will think we're crazy


----------



## fraser (May 15, 2010)

A few years ago we dealt with CIBC Imperial Service fee for service investment council. We were not happy. Revolving door advisors who became less knowledgeable as time passed. We never had any dealings with the Wood Gundy folks.

Our new advisory service is head and shoulders above what we had and more professional to boot. 

I would pass on the rubber chicken. The meal won't be worth the drive.


----------



## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

Is it actually addressed to you personally, or to 'homeowner'?

I'm guessing they probably geo-targeted specific postal codes and are hoping to pick up some new clients from what they perceive to be affluent neighborhoods.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My parents would go to several of these dinners a year. The pressure to switch varied according to who was running the dinner.

Personally, I've got too many other things I'd rather be doing but they would go.


Cheers


----------



## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

@none, @donald, @Jungle, love the responses. lol. 

@HaroldCrump. Thanks for confirming that you got this invite as well. 
There is no fine print in my invitation about a $500,000 limit. Just an RSVP card, with a self addressed envelope. nothing else.
Perhaps, I'll see you there.  (I'll change my mind and have the 'Pan-seared Jail Island Atlantic salmon' entree instead)

@Echo. I just looked again. The envelope is addressed to my <first_initial_only> and my last name. 
So even though I have no affiliation with CIBC, they got my 'partial name' and full address from somewhere (i.e. maybe from a magazine subscription or something similar.)
In other words, they really don't know who I am.

@Eclectic12, @FrugalTrader, thanks for your feedback on these events. I probably won't go to this dinner. However, I find this marketing effort to search for new clients interesting. 

Why do they even bother with this method? Are they hoping to convert one or two clients per 100 that they invite to dinner? It doesn't seem worth it.


----------



## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

avrex said:


> Why do they even bother with this method? Are they hoping to convert one or two clients per 100 that they invite to dinner? It doesn't seem worth it.


That's exactly what they're hoping to convert. The direct mail costs them nothing - it's just postage and the cost to produce the mail piece. If they send out 1,000 pieces and get 15 people out to dinner, that would cost them maybe $2,000, plus another $750 to $1,000 for a nice dinner.

What's the lifetime value of converting one wealthy client ($500,000+ portfolio) over to their firm?


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^ +1

Plus some or all of the dinner costs potentially are tax write-offs so unless the results are consistently zero - it's a small risk.


Cheers


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

This is nothing more than a marketing play. They don't know you. If you have a pulse and are willing to attend, that's good enough for them. When you arrive you'll be bombarded with sales pitches in many different forms. I attended a similar "free" event which was touted as "Free Windows95 training" (obviously a long time ago now) and I had to sit there through like 2 hours of sales pitch and PPT slides with a few minutes of screen viewing. I bet this is the same. It's marketing. Expect to be hounded to "sign up" for various contacts, give them your contact details so they can send you more junk mail and such. What's your time worth? There's no free lunch.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> This is nothing more than a marketing play. They don't know you. If you have a pulse and are willing to attend, that's good enough for them. When you arrive you'll be bombarded with sales pitches in many different forms. I attended a similar "free" event which was touted as "*Free Windows95 training*" (obviously a long time ago now) and I had to sit there through like 2 hours of sales pitch and PPT slides with a few minutes of screen viewing. I bet this is the same. It's marketing. Expect to be hounded to "sign up" for various contacts, give them your contact details so they can send you more junk mail and such. What's your time worth? *There's no free lunch*.


 +1 ... and that's how Bill Gates got to be (and remains as) one of the richest man in North America ...lol.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

There is a minimum account balance requirement, however, they are targeting high net worth clients/foundations, etc., and hardly the only bank looking for such clientele, so why is this any news?

What % of millionaires do you suppose are DIY investors? 

*@Jungle*, if you're expecting just mutual fund talk here, you'll be disappointed.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> There is a minimum account balance requirement, however, they are targeting high net worth clients/foundations, etc., and hardly the only bank looking for such clientele, so why is this any news?
> 
> What % of millionaires do you suppose are DIY investors?
> 
> *@Jungle*, if you're expecting just mutual fund talk here, you'll be disappointed.


Yeah but it's so easy to lie about your net worth. I've been invited to about 10 of these dinners and seminars for high net worth clients. This was at a time when my net worth was well under 50K. I just put on a nice suit and tie and pretended I knew what I was talking about--LOL. I just put myself on a lot of mailing lists and called the actual advisors assistants personally asking for more information etc.

Then when a dinner or seminar came up...I was invited to attend.


----------



## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Crowd behavior is always dangerous. I always like to base my money decisions when alone & not influenced by being sorrounded by any number of people. Got to be carefull when the herd is dumber then the dumbest person in it.


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

The letter I had received specifically used the term _investable assets_, not net worth.
They weren't asking people to bring their brokerage statements to the event, but it's clear they knew what they were looking for.
I don't think this is meant to be simply another mutual fund marketing pitch.

I didn't attend that event simply because I don't feel comfortable in high pressure sales situations, so I tend to avoid them.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

lonewolf said:


> Crowd behavior is always dangerous. I always like to base my money decisions when alone & not influenced by being sorrounded by any number of people. Got to be carefull when the herd is dumber then the dumbest person in it.


 However attending these seminars or meeting with decent financial advisors is actually the secret to becoming a good DIY investor. I often requested a sample portfolio from these advisors. Then I would use these sample portfolios to plan out my own DIY strategy. You have to beat these advisors at their own game--LOL.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> The letter I had received specifically used the term _investable assets_, not net worth.
> They weren't asking people to bring their brokerage statements to the event, but it's clear they knew what they were looking for.
> I don't think this is meant to be simply another mutual fund marketing pitch.
> 
> I didn't attend that event simply because I don't feel comfortable in high pressure sales situations, so I tend to avoid them.


Well they can't exactly kick you out of the seminar. IMHO you have absolutely no obligation to disclose anything to these advisors or banks etc.


----------



## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Squash

Disapline is always good when it comes to money, Your one of the wise ones that have aquired it.


----------



## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> There is a minimum account balance requirement, however, they are targeting high net worth clients/foundations, etc., and hardly the only bank looking for such clientele, so why is this any news?


This is news because I'm wondering why they are targeting someone like myself, who as far as they know, has zero $0 investment assets.
My invitation says nothing about a minimum amount. I just RSVP and show up. Their hope to find high net worth clients, in this manner, just seems odd to me.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

lonewolf said:


> Squash
> 
> Disapline is always good when it comes to money, Your one of the wise ones that have aquired it.


 What I noticed about these sample high net worth portfolios (over 500K in investable assets) is that everything in the portfolio is totally individual. Individual stocks, individual bonds and individual debentures. A total active management approach. The advisor wants you to become totally dependent on him/her year after year. Most of these high net worth advisors hate ETFS and for good reason. ETFS seriously threaten these advisors income streams.

Very few HNW investors are going to pay an advisor over $10000/yr (minimum) for a simple ETF portfolio.


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Squash500 said:


> Well they can't exactly kick you out of the seminar. IMHO you have absolutely no obligation to disclose anything to these advisors or banks etc.


I know, but there is obviously _some_ expectation the organizers have from the participants.
If nothing else, at least a foot in the door for further contact in the future and some cross selling opportunities.
No, thanks.
I had no need for such services, therefore, why bother.

If I had 2 hrs. to kill in the evening, I'd rather watch a nice movie.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

avrex said:


> This is news because I'm wondering why they are targeting someone like myself, who as far as they know, has zero $0 investment assets.
> My invitation says nothing about a minimum amount. I just RSVP and show up. Their hope to find high net worth clients, in this manner, just seems odd to me.


 Why? It's just simple marketing 101.


----------



## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Jungle I will take you for the free steak dinner /Lunch to save you the pain of one of these events lol.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> I know, but there is obviously _some_ expectation the organizers have from the participants.
> If nothing else, at least a foot in the door for further contact in the future and some cross selling opportunities.
> No, thanks.
> I had no need for such services, therefore, why bother.
> ...


 Fair enough. However I actually enjoyed meeting these high rollers. When I got pressured with follow up correspondence (phone calls etc)....I just said that I was meeting with 4 or 5 other advisors and I would get back to them if I was interested.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

No, they don't ask you to arrive with your brokerage statement, lol, but at the end of the day, they will only take on the clients that meet their minimum requirements, which depending on the portfolio in question, can be as little as $100K.

I don't know where they get the name list, but I think it's understood that they are looking for millionaires. 

I don't know exactly, but my wild guess would be that around 20%-30% of millionaires are DIY investors [if that], so there are lots of clients out there for all the banks, so as Echo mentioned, even if they signed on few rich clients, their efforts/dinner would have been well covered.


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I also suspect that the presenters/shills in these events may be exclusively commissioned salespeople and not full time employees of CIBC Wood Gundy.
Therefore, the company's expenses are limited to providing a meeting hall and maybe the meal.
All the time, effort and $$ spent for customer acquisition would be the responsibility of these independent salespeople.


----------



## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I would say hnw individuals would have no problem paying the fees.True hnw individuals will have complex scenarios and don't have the time to manage investments(they are knee deep handling their own businesses)paying 30k a yr on a couple million is peanuts and they make up for it in what these wealth firms bring to the table(imagine having a relationship with say gs.to,they would undoubtedly make you richer over time)I wonder what statistically the cutoff is when diys abandon self direct?I bet if you surveyed 10 millionaires(liquid)99 percent of them have a wealth management company for obvious reasons.....maybe you would have the odd outlier.


----------



## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Squash500 said:


> What I noticed about these sample high net worth portfolios (over 500K in investable assets) is that everything in the portfolio is totally individual. Individual stocks, individual bonds and individual debentures. A total active management approach. The advisor wants you to become totally dependent on him/her year after year. Most of these high net worth advisors hate ETFS and for good reason. ETFS seriously threaten these advisors income streams.
> 
> Very few HNW investors are going to pay an advisor over $10000/yr (minimum) for a simple ETF portfolio.


 I can see them loving individual bonds spread out over all differnt maturity in registered accounts. With the 100 dollar transfer fee to another RRSP or TFSA they can trap the unexpected. They can offer a higher rate GICs with the money well spread out with differnt maturity dates but when they come due watch out. The interest might be lower but you might roll over instead of paying those fees.


I often wonder if laddered GICs are really what the experts make them out to be. It would surprise me if history showed that when an investor had a lump sum to invest if they just went with the 5 year & forget the ladder & kept rolling it over every 5 years they would be further ahead. They would save on transfer fees & the larger lump sum more barganing power.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

donald said:


> I would say hnw individuals would have no problem paying the fees.True hnw individuals will have complex scenarios and don't have the time to manage investments(they are knee deep handling their own businesses)paying 30k a yr on a couple million is peanuts and they make up for it in what these wealth firms bring to the table(imagine having a relationship with say gs.to,they would undoubtedly make you richer over time)I wonder what statistically the cutoff is when diys abandon self direct?I bet if you surveyed 10 millionaires(liquid)99 percent of them have a wealth management company for obvious reasons.....maybe you would have the odd outlier.


 Excellent post. However IMHO a lot of millionaires got that way by being frugal in the first place. They could always buy ETFS themselves and hire top tax lawyers and accountants to take care of estate and perhaps succession planning etc.


----------



## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I somewhat agree a lot of millionaires got that way by being frugal BUT their earnings surpass it imo.If you take a classic hnw individual,say owns a small medical device company with 25 employees(and that is his area of expertise)and he is not a numbers guy(very typical of a c.e.o)has a cfo or c.a under his employ,do think it is likely he wants to spend the time/energy/effort/learning curve of diy investing?I doubt it.Being a ceo and building his business came about from outsourcing likely(delegating)it's ingrained in a hnw individual to outsource(in his business or personal,second nature and hiring talent)

The hnw demo is not going to risk fumbling around diy(they never got wealthly that way)They have enough business stress to begin with(they have made ''it'' and they are not going to screw around with etf's/personally imo)That is my take.

Besides,life is different when your drawing 250/350...500k a yr?that would be a typical profile of hnw........is my take out to lunch?


----------



## iherald (Apr 18, 2009)

Every year my boss gets invited to a BMO event, last year it was at the Four Seasons Opera house, they have nice food and you hear some knowledgeable people talk about how they see the economy and stocks going. I always go with him and I always find it very interesting. My thought is that if you can learn one thing it's worthwhile. Last year (about 12 months ago now) they were saying that they thought the US economy would outperform the Canadian and what that meant.


----------



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I like your idea Jungle. Are we invited?


----------

