# Smoky summers



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

BC and Alberta air quality has been very bad this summer with the smoke from the fires. Is anyone concerned this will become a persistent pattern rather than a 1 or 2-off event? Smoke is a health hazard and ruins enjoyment of the outdoors. You pretty much have to stop walking, hiking, cycling, and must hide indoors. Outdoor workers have to wear protective equipment or stop working. If someone breathes the smoke year after year, it will cause lung damage.

It's not isolated to BC either. The massive Fort McMurray fire was in 2016, and for the last couple of years now, California and Oregon have had uncontrollable wildfires. Currently the west coast is in a stretch of 3 bad years in a row.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Of course we are concerned! Here in the Okanagan this past weekend we experienced the worst air quality on the planet. Flights were cancelled due to low visibility. The Triathlon was cancelled. I stayed home with my AC and read a book. It has been worse than last year. 

It’s a bit too simplistic to say this is just due to climate change. How we steward our forests is also relevant. Watch this interesting video from a California resident.
https://youtu.be/ajPpP3vbD5c


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I don't think it's going to be a 1 or 2-off event when already you noticed California and Oregon have had 3 bad years in a row ... what's a 4th, 5th bad year? As long as there's enough to burn, then the potential it'll continue. 

I would be more concerned with what further can be done with that lingering poor air quality ... any earth/environmental experts here? Maybe nothing. Nonetheless, the long term health implications haven't surfaced yet.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

heyjude said:


> Of course we are concerned! Here in the Okanagan this past weekend we experienced the worst air quality on the planet. Flights were cancelled due to low visibility. The Triathlon was cancelled. I stayed home with my AC and read a book. It has been worse than last year.


Sorry to hear that. I was in the Okanagan in June, it's so beautiful there.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Yesterday they featured north shore visitors and Squamish gondola riders. They also had interviews with cruisers and other visitors. All very disappointed.

We have our doors closed for the first time since the last wind and rainstorm.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

The *GD* smoke ruined my camping trip last summer, my camping trip this summer, and now most likely my lake trip this fall, not to mention my entire life for 6 week for the evacuation 2 summers ago!

I've had it up to here ^ with these GD fires!

That said, I feel even worse for all those from-far-away vacationers out in the mountains this summer. So many years-in-the-making trips with expensive flights and rental cars and $300/night hotel rooms just to drive around in some smoky stinky air looking at hazy waterfalls. At least I only wasted a few days and few hundred bucks...


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I am looking at it right now while I am typing this. In Richmond here it is bad but not as bad as going inland. This has been going on for the last three years and I don't remember having it like this before.

On the coast here the last few winters and into spring have been colder and very wet. The summers have not been overly hot but they have been dryer then usual.

The smoke is bad for tourism in the interior.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Climate change may well mean we can expect more fires and have to accept it as a 'norm'. Fires have of course always existed. What changes is the proximity of fires to people. For example, in the case of Fort McMurray, which came first the forest or the people? The answer of course is the forest, the people are only there because of oil. Fifty years ago oro whatever, the fires around Fort McMurray would have burned themselves out without affecting anyone.

As the world population grows, it is only common sense to realize that natural disasters of whatever kind will impact more people. As people, their cities and homes cover more and more of the world's surface, the consequences should come as no surprise. Have you noticed that what we call 'natural disasters' only refers to where people are involved? A volcano that blows is not a 'natural disaster' unless some people die or are inconvenienced (flights cancelled due to smoke in the atmosphere). Otherwise it isn't even a small news item.

The real elephant in the room is overpopulation. http://business-ethics.com/2012/09/29/1443-the-impact-of-human-population-growth/


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Better not mention that to Trudeau advisors who have a goal of 100 million people in Canada by the end of the century. It seems climate change is on top of the agenda, while at the same time they want to greatly increase the population.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Definitely bad for tourism. One of my coworkers from Oregon went to BC with his wife on a big road trip. They came back very disappointed, saying it was just smoke and poor air. I'm sad that this is their first experience with BC.

It's amazing how dry everything is. Down south in Oregon (which has similar weather) it's been very hot and dry and I witnessed two random fires pop up. One was under a metal grate outside my office, where leaves and branches had collected. Either a cigarette or electrical spark started a fire, and smoke caused nearby buildings to evacuate.

The other was in the courtyard of my apartment. A garbage can went up in flames, requiring the fire department, again probably due to a cigarette thrown into the bin. Everything is so dry that the smallest spark is all it takes. A few weeks earlier I was walking around the city and passed by a highway off-ramp, where a whole cluster of trees had gone up in flames... fire dept was already on the scene.

To those in BC & AB: keep a fire extinguisher handy, and call 911 if it looks like a fire is getting out of control. When the fire started in the garbage bin, someone tried using a fire extinguisher on it (emptied the whole thing) and the fire roared back to life.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

new dog said:


> Better not mention that to Trudeau advisors who have a goal of 100 million people in Canada by the end of the century. It seems climate change is on top of the agenda, while at the same time they want to greatly increase the population.


The problem is that it is a two edged sword. The world economy is based on population growth. You must have more consumers in order to sell more product and grow an economy. As first world countries face declining birth rates (Canada's is currently 1.6), they must rely on immigration to grow or even to sustain their population.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2014002-eng.htm

If every country decided (and were able to) freeze population growth, where would our immigrants come from to maintain our population?

Just how we (the world) are going to get out of this catch-22, if we are, is a question for which there seems to be no acceptable answer.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> The problem is that it is a two edged sword. The world economy is based on population growth. You must have more consumers in order to sell more product and grow an economy. As first world countries face declining birth rates (Canada's is currently 1.6), they must rely on immigration to grow or even to sustain their population.
> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2014002-eng.htm
> 
> If every country decided (and were able to) freeze population growth, where would our immigrants come from to maintain our population?
> ...


excellent point

the problem is, we are not taking the time to consider possible answers and possible responses

we have a great country, that, if managed well, could attract excellent people and we may well be able to develop a high quality standard of living with a smaller and more well managed population

but trudeau and his idiots are not taking the time to ask the question, they are merely flooding the country with more people in a crass attempt to lock up power forever with loyal Liberal voters


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

IIRC the Club of Rome published a study or simulation in the 70's about the limits of growth. I seem to recall an update around 2000 as well.
Methinks they are on the right path. Countries will have to plan for zero or declining populations. The first world countries cannot keep taking the spill over from countries with high birth rates. Those rates have to come down to sustainable levels. Ie along the lines of China 1 child policy until population reduces and stabilises.( even a 2 child policy would stabilize and reduce population over time).
This could be acheived through education and better living conditions in third world - primarily of females - as education levels go up, birth rates go down.

Climate change may open up vast regions in the north of Canada, Ukraine, Siberia to agriculture to hold off the reality for a while as well as increased yields but at some point, a bad year or further climate change will wreck havoc on food supply.
Nature takes care of her own.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm not following this. How did you guys jump to immigration? Do you think BC forest fires are starting because "too many immigrants"?

Next you'll be telling me that the sky isn't as blue as it used to be because of too many immigrants.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It was very smokey in Calgary this past week. Better now.

I cannot understand what immigration and Trudeau have to do with forest fires caused by lightening strikes (most common) or carelessness.


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## Larry800 (Jun 11, 2018)

The forest fires in California are caused by the record warm temperatures in that state. The climate is changing due to human activity,namely the increase in production of greenhouse gases. 





> It should come as no surprise that California is burning.
> 
> On Wednesday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) reported that July was California's hottest month since record keeping began in 1895.
> 
> ...


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

This thread does not have a climate change message to it, which is good.

So my thinking is the large beetle forest kills over the years has been adding fuel to the fires in the western part of North America. In Vancouver we get a lot of our smoke from Washington state as well.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

It seems the smokey summers are becoming the new normal in BC and a few other places.

I have not done any research, but I suspect what is happening is due perhaps in part to climate change. But I do not profess to know much about so-called "climate change" and how much of a threat it poses to the planet. That's a whole other debate. I also suspect the current wildfire situation to be a corollary of years of effective fire suppression efforts. 

Forest fires are part of the natural cycle. But, anywhere civilization meets forest, we do our best to prevent and extinguish forest fires. We have become pretty good at it. The result is that years of accumulated forest floor debris does not get cleaned up by fire. It just continues to accumulate, providing tinder for starting a roaring blaze. Every year there is no fire, the hazard grows.

As for the suggestion of keeping a fire extinguisher to hand, a bit like taking a knife to a gunfight, I fear. If a forest fire starts in dry conditions, it can grow alarmingly in mere seconds. One must see it first hand to appreciate this.

We probably have on hand about 10 fire extinguishers in the 10-lb. ABC class. We have 2 boats and one is in each. A few in the house and one in each outbuilding. But, if a forest fire is coming toward the house, probably better just to get in the boat and leave if a dry chemical spray is all you have to throw at it. 

For years we have maintained in an outbuilding near the house, with a tank inside containing 1,280 imperial gallons of fresh water. I took comfort in having the ability to pump that onto a fire quite quickly with our little Honda water pump. However, the events in BC in that last couple of years have caused me (and others around me) to rethink. The province put on a 2-day firefighting course last year for us locals. We previously had a course on how to drive and operate our community-owned pumper truck which has a 1,500-gallon tank that can be refilled from our local lake or from a number of ponds. But it can't be everywhere at once and requires time to go anywhere.

The recent course was to teach us to use fire pumps, the Mark-3 in particular. Afterwards, the course facilitators assisted in obtaining a group purchase of pumps and 60-foot rolls of firehose, with forestry-type couplers. So now a number of us on our island own these pumps. Most of us live on the ocean and it makes a lot of sense to have a high capacity pump. Once our fresh water tank is depleted, our little Honda pump would not have enough "lift" capacity to draw water from the ocean and project it onto a fire. But the Mark-3? Boy, that thing can sure pump! In our class, we set one on the dock by the ocean and ran 300 feet of 1.5" firehose up a hill with an 18% grade and from there were able to project a column of water over an impressive distance. 3 hoses could be operated at once, each delivering a lot of water at good pressure. My point is that for those living anywhere in the forest interface zone, if you have a reliable source of water - including a pond or swimming pool - you can do a lot to protect your property. I know that if a fire comes burning down the hill towards our house, and taking into account that we have created a fair fire break between forest and house, we can hold off fire indefinitely. Do I think we can stop our surrounding 60 acres of forest, orchard, etc, from burning? No.

For anyone interested, here's more on the Mk.-3 pump:

http://www.onestopfire.com/mark3.htm


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Mukhang pera said:


> if you have a reliable source of water - including a pond or swimming pool - you can do a lot to protect your property. I know that if a fire comes burning down the hill towards our house, and taking into account that we have created a fair fire break between forest and house, we can hold off fire indefinitely.


What's the quick and dirty strategy here for the best way to ward off the flames? Are you trying to attack and put out the fire that's on the trees closest to the house? Or just soak the house/ground/burnables around the house?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Mukhang pera said:


> It seems the smokey summers are becoming the new normal in BC and a few other places ...
> 
> We probably have on hand about 10 fire extinguishers in the 10-lb. ABC class. We have 2 boats and one is in each. A few in the house and one in each outbuilding. But, if a forest fire is coming toward the house, probably better just to get in the boat and leave if a dry chemical spray is all you have to throw at it ...
> 
> ...



very happy & relieved to hear from you. Also happy to hear that you have got your escape plans well organized.

i was heartbroken to see a fire map of BC the other day. Never before has such a map been seen or even imagined. I was especially shocked to see major out-of-control fires plus many smaller fires in the north end of vancouver island. Farther north than your latitude.

your island - at least on that map - appeared to be safe, thanks be. There were no nearby fires, neither on van island nor on neighbouring islands nor on the mainland coastal region. If only this will hold.

canada is so preoccupied with emergency firefighting & evacuations in BC that the massive tragedy hasn't begun to sink in yet. There will be blow after crippling blow to BC's heartland industries & to tourism. Impacted health for millions of british columbians. Canada should turn its mind, now & upcoming, towards how the ROC can offer help.

take care MP. Stay in touch here. Very best wishes to you, your family & all neighbours on that beautiful island paradise.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

peterk said:


> What's the quick and dirty strategy here for the best way to ward off the flames? Are you trying to attack and put out the fire that's on the trees closest to the house? Or just soak the house/ground/burnables around the house?


Peterk, good question, one deserving of an answer, even though moments ago I mentioned in another thread that I would not post further on cmf. I'll continue to watch for awhile and respond to earnest inquiries such as yours. Courtesy demands it.

I would say that, in most scenarios (and different things can be occurring depending on the lay of the land, the type and location of fuel for the fire, etc.), good strategy is to wet down anything combustible in the immediate area of the house, since the fire will be producing sparks that drift. It can produce a lot and the "drift" can be considerable if wind-driven. 

Next, the focus should be at the base of the flames at the fire line itself, which will be the trees closest to the house in a situation where fire is advancing toward the house. Armed with a garden hose, one would be hard pressed to do any more than seek to stay close to the house and keep wet as much as possible. If there's a serious fire coming, you'll probably be forced by heat to abandon the effort.

The kind of high-capacity pump I have in mind will permit one to not only very quickly and effectively water down the house and immediate vicinity, but actually advance upon the fire and push it back. At the same time, you would want to be wetting down the understory ahead of the fire line, which is where sparks will start new fires if not controlled. You can skip that step perhaps if your wife/gf, hops on the bulldozer/excavator and clears a fire break by pushing aside the understory vegetation ahead of the fire.

BTW, I had nothing to do with organizing our firefighting course. But the province was willing to put it on, at no charge to participants. I suppose it's considered money well spent to have more people trained and equipped to fight fires. So don't be afraid to ask in your community. I am not even too sure of who to ask, but I can inquire of those here who made contact with the right people and managed to induce them to send men and equipment by boat to our small community to provide instruction. PM me if you like and I'll make inquiries and advise accordingly. We had about 15-20 attendees, so that was apparently regarded as a sufficient number to make it worthwhile. 

Small communities like ours are the beneficiaries of all kinds of things like this. We have had government-sponsored first aid courses, firearms instruction, off-grid energy and water system courses, marine radio and navigation courses, and all kinds of stuff brought to us for just asking.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I'm not following this. How did you guys jump to immigration? Do you think BC forest fires are starting because "too many immigrants"?
> 
> Next you'll be telling me that the sky isn't as blue as it used to be because of too many immigrants.


those immigrants are notorious for being a) smokers and b) casually discarding their butts everywhere ... more immigrants = more forest fires

no wait, thats not it at all, its merely that like every thread on cmf, it sooner ... or later ... wanders off in a direction completely unrelated to the original post topic

surely you are not suggesting that we stick the original topic of forest fires james 

if you are then try this one on for size ... beware this video will pucker your bum right up tight ... holleee craaapppp ... these guys (father and son) did not die but came pretty damn close

https://globalnews.ca/news/4397471/wildfire-video-father-son-howe-ridge-glacier/


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Some observations having read prior posts.....

1. There are many more people in many more places that 'interface' with the forests. Hence more 'fires of note' which require active suppression to save property, which causes media attention when there is an evacuation alert or an actual evacuation.

2. Structures can be saved with appropriate 'watering' intervention. In BC, wildfire crews count on municipal fire departments do what they do best... water down and protect structures while wildfire crews develop containment lines to perimeter wildfires.

3. Some municipalities are getting the message that they need to clear interfaces between urban streets and forests of fuels. However, funding is still woefully inadequate stretched out over years, if not decades. Better building codes restricting fuel sensitive materials would also help. More stucco and aluminum. more fire resistant roofing materials. Example: Okanagan stopped use of cedar shakes after the great 2003 fire - many houses burned due to embers falling on cedar shake roofs.

4. Poor forest management through recent decades when fire suppression was top of mind rather than letting forests burn to cleanse themselves of accumulated fuels. Forests have to burn to re-birth themselves with new growth and open spaces for wildlife.

5. Global population growth is a bonafide issue in terms of resources needed to support said population. Fiscal policy for almost every nation counts on increased population to fuel GDP growth to pay accumulated debt. Fiscal deficits could not continue if there was no GDP growth and thus no inflationary growth. Japan?


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Calgary was not as bad as the Okanagen but it was he worst I have ever seen for smoke. This past weekend, a ride for cancer was cut short due to health concerns for the cyclists - and that was after the health advisories had been lifted.

As was said above, climate change may be a factor but forest management may be the primary cause. Forestry experts have been warning about this for decades.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

fatcat said:


> those immigrants are notorious for being a) smokers and b) casually discarding their butts everywhere ... more immigrants = more forest fires


As a nonsmoking immigrant, I resent that! 
FYI, most of the fires in the Okanagan this year were sparked by a big lightning storm. One exception (the Yates Road Fire) was due to local (non immigrant) little boys playing with matches.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> As a nonsmoking immigrant, I resent that!
> FYI, most of the fires in the Okanagan this year were sparked by a big lightning storm. One exception (the Yates Road Fire) was due to local (non immigrant) little boys playing with matches.


I guess Okanagan residents who would like to blame immigrants will also ignore the fact that some years ago, it was a volunteer Oliver firefighter who was starting fires. https://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/32722/Oliver-Firefighter-Charged

It is actually not that unusual for this to happen. I guess it is something like the reason pedos get into things where children are involved like coaching etc. 
https://www.nvfc.org/firefighter-arson/

So if "more immigrants = more forest fires", then maybe we should also be saying, more firefighters = more forest fires and looking at how to get rid of firefighters from our country. Can we deport them? LOL


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

heyjude said:


> As a nonsmoking immigrant, I resent that!
> FYI, most of the fires in the Okanagan this year were sparked by a big lightning storm. One exception (the Yates Road Fire) was due to local (non immigrant) little boys playing with matches.


indeed, lightning pretty much leads the fire starting pack ... butt tossing immigrants are way, way behind i suspect, even behind fire obsessed fire fighters and certainly way behind non-immigrant butt tossers


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I saw a guy in Summerland yesterday flick a butt out of his truck into tinder dry road side grass. Didn't get the license plate as I went to stomp out the idiot's butt but did notice a mullet & muscle shirt . White trash crack head. Is that racist haha.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> I saw a guy in Summerland yesterday flick a butt out of his truck into tinder dry road side grass. Didn't get the license plate as I went to stomp out the idiot's butt but did notice a mullet & muscle shirt . White trash crack head. Is that racist haha.


No, not racist since it does not refer to the person's race. But it certainly qualifies as intolerant or prejudiced. :tongue:

Anyway, what do you expect of people who live around Summerland. :stupid:


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

The smoke has been real bad here a few days. It's always noticeable, but sometimes horrible. The one thing you notice (and we noticed it in the shuswaps this year and last) is how much of a cooling effect the smoke has. High of 32 forecast, but with the smoke, it's closer to 21. I would think that several weeks of smoky haziness might have an impact on crops maturing as well.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

last night in victoria, 4 blocks from the water it was quite literally ... yes, i am using the word literally, well, literally ... like standing next to a campfire, choking and smoky and the smell of woodsmoke was intense

today the air is clear ... weird


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

nobleea said:


> I would think that several weeks of smoky haziness might have an impact on crops maturing as well.


Entirely possible, especially on the prairies when frost can come early, and could have devastating effects on BC's 2018 wine vintage. https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/234533/Smoky-silver-lining


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> Entirely possible, especially on the prairies when frost can come early, and could have devastating effects on BC's 2018 wine vintage. https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/234533/Smoky-silver-lining



OMG the wine

"smoky" "notes of oaken casks" "lingering aftertaste of pine forests" are adjectives sometimes tossed around by wine critics
scary to think how these lighthearted word flourishes could now take on dark meanings

it could be that any crop which ferments, matures or gets stored after harvest this summer will be strongly altered in flavour
more subtly, even the phytochemical manner in which a harvest undergoes fermentation or storage could be altered


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

The wine crush will be fine...no hint of smokiness is expected in the crush although thorough washing of the grapes is necessary to get any hint of ash off. All is good and the more the grapes suffer the better the vintage. The crush will start a bit late and will be a 24/7 harvest to keep up once it starts.
At any rate my rv is getting full of great wines from See Ya Later, Ink'neep,Sumac Ridge.....* hic*


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I should have said it depends on when the grapes are maturing. The taste of some varietals will not be affected but others will be due to changes in chemical reactions. We won't know until at least the Fall of 2019 when some of the 2018 crop will hit the shelves....if the vintner lets certain varietals be bottled that is.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I had dinner in Penticton the other day with a manager of a notable vineyard corp and was just regurgitating his views from the evening. Hopefully he is right and everything will be cool with the vintage.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Its time for the provincial government in BC to step up and put serious money on the table for fire mitigation. Insurance claims from wildfires can be in the billions of dollars yet our government budgets 60 million dollars and then complains that so far they have spent well over 250 million fighting fires.

Up till the mid eighties the forestry employed over 100 thousand people, today its around 25 thousand they did much of the work combating wildfires.The pine beetle infestation is a serious problem so much fuel just waiting to go up. BC is is rugged mountain terrain with fires that can only be fought with helicopters and they can only fly in daytime. Having a realistic budget would be a good starting point say 1 billion a year.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

These are the costs of climate change that people don't want to talk about.

Our insurance company stated at the annual meeting they lost money last year to due high level of claims for "climate change events". 

They are currently conducting audits and considering withdrawing from offering insurance in certain areas. Fort McMurray, Alberta was one area they mentioned by name.

Without insurance, people are going to suffer catastrophic losses and the government will not be able to respond in every instance.

If insurance companies refuse to offer coverage, will the lenders offer mortgages ?

Governments need to figure out how they are going to address the costs of climate change. I thought carbon taxes would have been a good place to start building the funds.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Good view sags its a real complicated issue for many this I know living in BC thankyou for adding to the discussion.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

On July 30 2018 Mars the fire planet was has only been that close to earth twice in 60,000 years. What do you expect it is the fire planet ?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Because of supply chain problems and difficulty finding equipment I think it would be smart to buy your air purifiers and replacement HEPA filters now.

I was looking at the filters used by my machine and just saw that Canadian Tire has jacked up the price... inflation or supply chains, whatever it is. The price has gone up dramatically on Amazon too.

Tonight I located one local store where I can still buy the HEPA filters at the old price so I bought some extra filters, enough to get me through the rest of this year even if there's bad forest fire smoke again from CA, OR, BC.

If you wait for the smoke to begin before buying filters... you're screwed.

Of course they're also useful for reducing COVID contagion risk indoors. If you have guests and can't open the windows, running the HEPA filter is a good idea.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> If you wait for the smoke to begin before buying filters... you're screwed.


For those with forced air systems it's just a new furnace filter.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> For those with forced air systems it's just a new furnace filter.


Depends on the severity of smoke and volume of air. In the really bad conditions I've experienced (once in Oregon and once in BC) those furnace filters just aren't enough.

In Winnipeg for example, I've never seen it get that bad, but I'm talking about places in BC in AB where it can extreme.

In those cases one really needs a local HEPA filter, something you'd put in your immediate room.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Anyone who purchases an air purifier should ALWAYS buy an extra pack of filter(s). Should be common sense since one can't expect the one that came with the unit to last forever. LOL.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Depends on the severity of smoke and volume of air. In the really bad conditions I've experienced (once in Oregon and once in BC) those furnace filters just aren't enough.
> 
> In Winnipeg for example, I've never seen it get that bad, but I'm talking about places in BC in AB where it can extreme.
> 
> In those cases one really needs a local HEPA filter, something you'd put in your immediate room.


We had really bad fire smoke for a few weeks last year, AQHI at 10+.

A few things to consider, filtering level and CFMs. A small in room unit may take a long time to clean the air and they move less air with really high level filters. Having the furnace fan on can really help clean the entire house, not just a single room.

If you want a great cost effective setup, get a large box fan and tape a furnace filter to it. Way cheaper than those small air purifier units, they filter lots of air, the filters are cheaper and always available.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> If you want a great cost effective setup, get a large box fan and tape a furnace filter to it.


No need for a box fan. My apartment has a forced air system that recirculates air within my apartment unit. When I turn on the fan, it draws the room's air through a filter and then pushes it out through vents within the apartment. The property manager has installed some kind minimal filter at the air intake.

This is probably what's already installed. It's only useful for large particles, basically a dust filter and isn't going to do anything for smoke. The fan intake is 30" x 10"

Any recommendations on what kind of filter I should look for, to *tape onto this 30x10 opening? *What kinds of standards or terminology do I need?

Would something like this 25x16 filter work? It's a bit short of the 30" width, but maybe I can tape it in place and cover the remaining 5" with tape, to force air through the filter.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Would something like this 25x16 filter work? It's a bit short of the 30" width, but maybe I can tape it in place and cover the remaining 5" with tape, to force air through the filter.


That should work for an apartment.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> That should work for an apartment.


Thanks! And do you think using duct tape to reduce the opening is feasible? Because the filter is too small for the opening, I have to block other air flow to make this work.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Tape, cardboard, etc to cover the open part should be fine. Maybe try to find two filters of different sizes that fit your vent better. I see 10x20" on the small end with 20x25" the largest size.


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