# What value do you out on education at a young age



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Looking for some opinions on the value of an education for my little ones. 


Here is some background or context..... The school is overcrowded beyond belief, 700 students for k-4, the kids don't get gym very often or any other program such as music or art, computers etc, the extracurricular is on a lottery basis. They school has been under accomindation since we entered, meaning they are looking to move our kids. Every year they come up with a different option, and then some thing happens. Now there are looking at added 6 more classrooms in an already crowded place and this is only temporary as they still don't have a permanent place for the school. 

On top of this, I have a child who has been tested as extremely gifted/exceptional. We picked this school because it provided good challenge, and has a right fit for my family and parenting philosophy. With all the uncertainty, and the change very year, I am beginning to look at other schools. There is only one other one that I really like, and that is a private school. Based on the program next year is the one year we can enter for both kids, based on the intake process and program. The program is great, and the class sizes are small and I know my kids will get a lot out of it. 

The cons are it's back to private school fees, so about another $20k for both kids. Then the other challenge is there is not busing so I would have to keep our nanny that drives so another $40k. Our current school has busing, and no fees.

Just looking for opinions. When I think another about the added expense, is it worth it. I know I went to prublic school and was fine, but I don't think that public school nearly the same as it was when I was a kid. Classes are so much bigger, and the demands on the classroom have grown. Also, being I have two kids with additional needs, this is a big factor.

So how much does one put on the value of the love of learning at a young age.


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## Underworld (Aug 26, 2009)

I have this debate with my wife all the time. I am a keen self educator and my wife is a teacher that is dedicated to her profession.

I always argue that it doesn't really matter what sort of education you get (except for if you become a physician, lawyer or certain engineers - you need a track record of education to get a foot in the door) what matters is your attitude post education. If you are driven you don't need a degree, you will out earn others around you from sheer hard work and perseverance. Drive can't be bought, it either manifests or not. My friends and family that have million dollar businesses don't even have University educations!

I went to Private school for almost half of my education and it wasn't any better quality than my public school experiences. In fact when I hit the public system I had lived a very sheltered life and was very gullible. I was thankful for the change so that I could become more "street smart".

Some benefits that I can think of regarding Private school when they get older is if they go to a very swanky place, you can get good connections for when they leave school. Old Boys Club style.

I'd personally save all that extra money and retire earlier to spend more time with my family.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mostly I think, the education of the kids is largely determined by themselves.

They are hardwired to either have an interest in learning.........or they aren't.

High school seems to be the years of the great divide.......

Several studies have indicated that children advance rapidly with early education.........but it levels out by Grades 5 and 6.

I suspect it is largely a result of the children with early education........forced to "wait" for the others to catch up.

The kids could skip a grade, but that doesn't always work out well either.

My son's girlfriend skipped 2 elementary grades and found herself in Grade 10 at age 13. 

Although a high achiever......she lost interest and dropped out.

After a couple of years of bumming around, she decided to get her GED and go back to college.

She got a diploma in a few months, but is unsatisfied with that, and is now completing her HS diploma online and thinking about university.

She was too young and immature for the position she found herself in.

The ability to do well in school, doesn't mean increased maturity.

Sometimes it just takes self motivation too.

Perhaps you should have a discussion with your kids..........to see if they have any idea what they would prefer ?

Are they getting enough out of the school ? Do they have good friends there ?

Talking with them may help you make the decision.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Personally, I think that gifted kids need to remain challenged or they become bored, think school is easy, then struggle when they encounter something challenging. This is especially true in high school/university, but the stage is set early on.

I think most of education depends on the teacher...a good teacher can make a kid love school and excell, a bad teacher can shut them right down. Not every good teacher is good for everyone and not every bad teacher is bad for everyone, but there are some really bad teachers out there...

I don't think parents do enough research out there to see what's available as options...when my kids started school, I checked out 24 different schools in my area. I found one that was last on our list to check, which had an excellent principle, and program. My kids did very well...but then the principle moved and the school crashed under the new one. Fortunately we moved and we found that there was a school for the gifted very close to my new place...which I'd never heard about before.

This school, even though they finish the regular curriculum by December, doesn't put a lot of pressure on the kids, nor gives them a ton of homework...it encourages them to learn about things that interests them, while teaching them to think and work.

I see a big difference in how they've developed, especially when they switched. My oldest was frustrated the first year because he realized, even though they'd been in a good school, how much they'd been held back.

As they approached high school, I again looked around at the options, eleiminating many because they wouldn't offer the best options for the education of my kids...coming from an advanced program, the worst thing I could do was throw them back into regular courses...bored teens are very dangerous.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

To me education at all ages is very important. My older son started private school in grade 9, he is now in grade 10. I can't say enough good things about it.
My other son is in a grade 8 gifted program and he will start at a private school in grade 9. Not sure if it will be the same school as his brother. 
My older son's school does not have busing and is 30 minutes away. So I only work part time to accommodate the pick ups.
I would absolutely have done private school earlier if I knew it would be so beneficial.

However, I would be reluctant to keep paying for a nanny at that cost. My husband drops my son off and I pick him up. Are you able to do something like that?


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

I recall laying out my qualifications on the topic of gifted kids some years back in excruciatingly personal detail, so will not repeat it here.

I would say that for average kids, private school might be of some benefit, but for exceptional, no school is going to add much value. In general a gifted kid by age 12 or so will know more about their area of interest than any adult in a school with the possible exception of art, history, music and similar - the sorts of degrees that have a representation in teachers. A kid turned on by STEM will in general find no STEM adults at a school because they are all off earning more elsewhere.

Mostly I would say what a gifted kid needs must come from outside the formal education system. A gifted child wants to learn, no NEEDS to learn and the formal school system is just a hindrance. $20K/year can buy much from outside the education system. The pool of adults that can benefit your child is also much deeper outside the education system. Your job is then to find these experiences, resources and people and then get out of the way.

My somewhat tongue in cheek, but also somewhat serious suggestion (for the right bright kid)...

For about $5-7K/year you can own a small sailboat, say about 25 feet. I would argue that there is almost no human endeavour that encompasses more distinct areas of knowledge than owning and running a sailboat. In addition to actually sailing ...

History: so much of human history has a nautical basis, and how many sayings are nautical?
Athleticism: swimming and racing, all round general fitness
Astronomy: old school navigation techniques and equipment
general science and technology: forces and how a boat moves, ropes, blocks, winches, levers ...
Geography: where do you want to go and how do you get there? What are the people about when you get there?
mechanical skills: engines and similar
electrical skills: lighting and equipment
weather: will the weather be conducive to going where I want to go today? Will it be safe to be on the water?
shop skills: fiberglass, woodworking, metalworking, glues, paints, coatings and similar
map (chart) reading and navigation: Get to where you want to go without running aground.
Being a leader and a follower: Captain and crew, knowing the rights and responsibilities of each.
Seamstress: making and repairing sails and other sewn items.
People skills: Giving and taking help from other boat owners. Judging if you can get along with that other person in 100 square feet for 3 weeks.
Economics and money: The whole experience involves spending scarce dollars from among a vast array of possibilities.
Budgeting: not just money, but also energy, food and other resources.
Food: What are you going to eat while away from shore for days at a time? How will you preserve and cook it?
Medical: What should be in your emergency kit? What should you know how to treat yourself?
Law: sailing "rules of the road", requirements when visiting a foreign country
Radio operation: local VHF, long distance shortwave SSB, satellite phones etc.
Volunteering: most clubs are volunteer based, plus some public activities that require volunteers
Making and following plans: see most of the above.
Likely a whole bunch of other things.

Now I am clearly biased, but I cannot see how a bright kid could not find something interesting to do with and around a sailboat. In my youth, I sailed a Laser and an Albacore. At the time, it never occurred to me that I should own a larger boat. I'd be many hundreds of thousands of dollars poorer now if I had, but I suspect would have had a more satisfying life. Better late than never... I discovered the Mecca of sailing in Ontario (if indeed not Canada) this summer: The North Channel.

hboy43


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## cougar (Oct 15, 2014)

I sent both our children to private school from kg to Grade 9( it did not go onto high school) and have no regrets. They had small classes and the teachers genuinely cared about them. I feel the education was superior( it was a Waldorf school). When the school built a new building we had a house built in that new community so the kids could walk back and forth which was especially good come junior high sports after school, hanging out with classmates etc. I agree with the previous poster about trying to find a cheaper transportation option than a $40,000 per year nanny-sharing driving between you and spouse or car pooling or even if you can transport them one way is public transit or a taxi a feasible option home? Is there any option to move closer to the school if your children will be spending many years there? Good luck in whatever you decide.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I like to think that schools are for the most part pretty even in Canada.
The biggest drivers of success for children are how involved their parents are with their learning, and the socioeconomic status of their peers.
It's a chicken and egg thing. Is it the school that creates good learners and thus good reviews? Or is it the parents creating and supporting good learners, which then makes the school look good?
There's no doubt a good principal/admin can make a difference at a school. More so for discipline, spirit, etc rather than for learning.

I've grown up with friends who were called 'gifted' and went through the IB program. They excelled until university. One dropped out, the other barely passed and has a mediocre career.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

nobleea said:


> I've grown up with friends who were called 'gifted' and went through the IB program. They excelled until university. One dropped out, the other barely passed and has a mediocre career.


Sorry , I don't agree with you .... My son 2 years ago graduated from IBT program (business technology), ALL his friend include my son now study in best universities in Canada and US... it's also much easier for them to study than for graduates of regular high schools


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

gibor said:


> Sorry , I don't agree with you .... My son 2 years ago graduated from IBT program (business technology), ALL his friend include my son now study in best universities in Canada and US... it's also much easier for them to study than for graduates of regular high schools


I'm not saying they won't be successful if going through a gifted program. Just that it's no guarantee. They will likely be successful in any program. Again due to the parents, not the school. I had a lot of friends that went through IB, some went to private schools, and a lot who went through regular programs. We all got in to the same schools. There was no difference in marks or success. 15 years on there's no difference in salaries/success/careers with the IB/private kids vs regular stream kids.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Interesting that some of you got to choose the school your kids went to.

In Ontario.........in our area at least..........the kids go to the designated school in the area.

The only choices are Catholic or Public school.

Families can move to change schools, but principals and teachers change every year........so that isn't always a solution.

I have not heard of a "gifted" program in Ontario schools, but have heard of several kids who "skipped" a grade or two along the way.

There are additional educational seminars etc available...............but I haven't heard of separate courses.

I think the most important parts of the equation are the principal and teachers.

I have known some who were just putting in their time until retirement and others who were fully engaged.

Luck of the draw basically.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

There are gifted programs in Ontario. My son's in not at the closest school. Only a handful of school have it so they bus students there.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I have not heard of a "gifted" program in Ontario schools, but have heard of several kids who "skipped" a grade or two along the way.


 I also haven't heard until my wife did research and found out.... There are "gifted" programs and special programs like IBT, IB, science etc.... for example in Peel region there is only 1 such program in Graydon Gordon secondary school ...



> 15 years on there's no difference in salaries/success/careers with the IB/private kids vs regular stream kids.


 this is like to say that there is no difference between Cambridge and Rayerson


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The gifted programs tend not to be talked about...in fact they seem to be a bit of a taboo.

When I found them and changed schools, other parents thought I was some form of an "elitist". 

Funny, kids who go to a remedial school for special needs are readily accepted as a good thing, but when you send your gifted kids to a special needs school, you are frowned upon...

And it truly is a special needs school...there is a lot of mental illness at both ends of the intellectual spectrum.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> The gifted programs tend not to be talked about...in fact they seem to be a bit of a taboo.
> 
> .


Agree! and the funny part that in this IBT program practially weren't any Canadian born child..... everyone is immigrant from India, China, Europe etc.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Have you looked into your local separate school system? I have friends who send their children there because the schools are less crowded, better managed, and they believe they are getting a better education. They are not Catholic.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

To be accepted to gifted programs, children must be in the top 2% IQ over 130. You can't just join the gifted class. I never heard of them before my son went because most schools don't have the program. There is one in my city so kids come from various home schools to attend the gifted program. Ours is through the catholic board.
They used to have a program where they pull you out for 1 week in 6 for enrichment but they did away with that.

High school gifted is different, thats where you have the IB and AP.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Have you looked into your local separate school system? I have friends who send their children there because the schools are less crowded, better managed, and they believe they are getting a better education. They are not Catholic.


I personally don't find catholic schools better at all and my kids and I went to them. They are just as crowded.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

summer said:


> I personally don't find catholic schools better at all and my kids and I went to them. They are just as crowded.


It depends where you live.... in some places Catolic schools are better , in other public... so the best schooll in West Mississauga is St. Aloysius Gonzaga , and close to it Meadowvale Sec school is pretty bad with drugs, bullies etc


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm not too far from there and the catholic schools definitely have drugs, suicide... Sure some Catholic schools are better than public but the opposite is true also.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Usually(i have noticed this)It is often not the brightest kids with the highest iq that succeed anymore than the 'other's'
I am sure we all know a lot of examples(people you grew up with that were not academically smart)but once in adulthood flourished.
I really don't believe 'gifted' kids have some huge advantage and there is nothing wrong with public schools imo
It is shocking looking back to my graduating year(97)and looking back who has succeeded and who has not(most of high Iq kids i grew up surprisingly never amounted to half as much as other kids(so far anyways)
Really school starts after you leave the halls of education.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> The gifted programs tend not to be talked about...in fact they seem to be a bit of a taboo.
> 
> When I found them and changed schools, other parents thought I was some form of an "elitist".
> 
> ...


And yet few criticize parents for moving their kids into more competitive leagues if they excel at hockey. Canada does seem to have 'tall poppy syndrome', but only in certain areas. There's also a bit of an anti-intellectual streak in our society, though not as bad perhaps as other countries.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Interesting you bring up competitive sports Andrew.
Almost with out exception kids that are highly athletic almost always do somewhat better in the market place then kids that only posses intellect.
There is a a direct link it seems
Seems like every ceo always excelled at sports.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Wow, lots of comments, and very interesting views... here some more information I will try to provide more context for all of the relevant comments here.

1. My post has nothing to do about the IQ of kids and how successful there are. I have read on the much of the research, and agree that this is just one factor. In fact, there are more gifted kids that are percentage wise, high school drop outs. A lot is attributed to them being bore. I do not want my kids to fall into the bored category. 

2. As someone said, both my kids have a very strong desire to learn, if they don't get that, they get bored, see point one. 

3. The current school we selected balanced a whole bunch of factors, not just academics. Our challenge is that it is started to fail us in other areas, such as not having room, or anything extra for learning.

4. I am extremely involved with my kids and extra challenges, however, that when I am home with them. I have no concerns that my kids are being highly enriched when I am with them. The other 7 hours a day the school has them, is also very important too. Homeschooling is NOT an option I will take. 

5. We have a gifted school here, it is considered the 'Harvard' of schools here in the public system, and ranks highest in academics in Calgary. My oldest was accepted after tested in the 99% of whatever the giftness test is. We turned them down, as it was not the balance that we looked for. Similar to Donalds comments on smart academic people don't always succeed. Nothing wrong with the program, but it was not the fit for my kids or me.

6. I have looked in the separate system, and in my view, it is not different than the public. So I see no point in switching.

7. HBOY I remember you sending me a very informative detailed note, and appreciate that. A sailboat is something that we have expressed no interest in. Though the cost of the boast is inexpensive, the storage, and everything else (we live no where near water), is not something I feel that we will keep up with. Perhaps if my child brings it up I will consider it. She actually has not expressed a single passion yet. I keep exposing her to things, and am waiting to see what she will show an interest in. So far, she seems to be a jack of all trade, but master of none. Just loves trying different things (we are fine with this). She seemed okay in STEM, but then she would rather just read about EVERYTHING. 

8. Being that my children are 5 & 8, though I have already asked for their opinion, they don't really know what they want. They currently are basing their decision or preference on where their friends are. I as parent need to look at other areas and factors. 

So here are my two choices...

1. Stay in the public school that has an alternative language program.

Pros
- Much more convenient in terms of the transportation and location
- Language program
- Diversity of many different people
- Established friends
- Cost
- Busing will allow for a nanny that doesn't drive 

Cons
- A lot of uncertainty in terms of where the school will be, there are plans of movement, but they have changed their final decision 3 times now, this makes it really hard to plan for the future, my kids may end up being split up 
- No space - over crowding is missing on the extracurricular and programs like gym and stuff
- Every year is a crap shoot with the teacher, we advocate a lot for our child to get some enrichment (this year is great though)

Option 2: Private School - I have already picked the one I want, so it's not any private school, but this particular philosophy
Pros
-Small class size
- It's a blended grade so the kids get to learn what interests them at there level, so it offers a lot of enrichment
- I know the plan for 9 years, and kids stay together

Cons
Cost $18K more per year than public (for both kids)
No transportation - extra $40k for driving nanny. Based on our lifestyles and how busy we are, the nanny will stay. But in this case we need one that drives. I can do one way, but 2 ways is not possible. There is after school care, but I don't want my kids at school that long, and want them in other activities. A nanny is the only way for us to do that right now.
No language
No gymnasium or art program. 

So I guess the question is it crazy to spend an extra $60K a year for two for elementary school to put them in a great program, where they are in an okay program? 

-


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I don't think there is one right answer...I think it's a personal decision. 

Personally, I think high school is where the unchallenged boredom problems become a big factor.

Personally I went through regular classes up to high school...

Then again, I look at how much broader my children's knowledge base is, and I see the value.

I chose a school to give them the best education...for sports, they go other places...they've explored the usual team sports, and had to learn swimming but they also looked into others like fencing, archery, and horseback riding. They all learned music in some form, and I got them into some art programs/camps as well. Then they are involved in all aspects around the house from cooking, making repairs, cleaning, building, etc. I even talk to them about how I invest and run my businesses.

I don't think schools can cover all aspects of development equally. If you can fill in the gaps, it may not matter where you go, at least until high school, then I think you need to keep them challenged...those are the most dangerous years.


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## cougar (Oct 15, 2014)

Plugging along-I am interested to know the name of the school in Calgary that ranks the highest in academics. Thanks


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

While not complete, here is a good starting point. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gifted_and_talented_programmes


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## Sprucegum (Dec 12, 2012)

Step back and take a deep breath  you are working on a 9 year plan for children less than 9 years old who have not yet given a clear signal where their interests lie. When that interest starts to manifest itself - then you need a plan to guide them in that direction. Until then I would keep them in the school where their friends are and be prepared to move them if/when the infrastructure there does fail.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Sprucegum said:


> Step back and take a deep breath  you are working on a 9 year plan for children less than 9 years old who have not yet given a clear signal where their interests lie. When that interest starts to manifest itself - then you need a plan to guide them in that direction. Until then I would keep them in the school where their friends are and be prepared to move them if/when the infrastructure there does fail.


Have to agree. Being in the right school for a 'gifted' student isn't super important until junior high (if at all). I think you've got a few years yet before you have to worry about it.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If your kid was 30 points below "average", would you want them in a program designed for them at an early age, or later on if at all?

What would you feel differently for a child 30 points higher?

Of course, the type of program and teacher plays a big role. I don't think putting pressure on them, or throwing tons of work at them is the best solution, but helping them develop their potential is important.

Also, from what I've seen, there are a lot of issues gifted kids have (anxiety, ocd, dealing with others, etc.) that they need help with.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Just a Guy said:


> Also, from what I've seen, there are a lot of issues gifted kids have (anxiety, ocd, dealing with others, etc.) that they need help with.


Those issues are usually a result of parents placing very high expectations on their kids, forcing schoolwork and studying over playing and growing up. It happens more in certain cultures than others.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

PA,

nahc and I were debating this over lunch. Not sure you're talking about Webber but it certainly is a good school but we wanted a school with good teaching--not necessarily good students. Webber's scores are very good based on the Fraser studies. However, are those scores already self-selected by their admission criteria? The scores are not an indicator of the teaching and in our view not necessarily worth the price of admission. As a result, the key metric in the Fraser studies we look at is the 'Actual rating vs. predicted based on parents' avg. income' rating.

As you know, we were in the real estate market and finally settled on a location with a good public system (Pump Hill >>> Nellie McClung). Our initial area of search was the Scarboro area but nothing came up that caught our eye.

Another thing we discussed was is it better to be the best student in an average class or be in the middle of the pack in a gifted class. Our thought is that being the best in any class ingrains the mentality that not being the best drives one to continuous improvement and that one can become comfortable with being 'average' which could decrease motivation down the road. nahc was in one of those gifted classes and can attest to the toxic environment/culture that it can lead to.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

nobleea said:


> Those issues are usually a result of parents placing very high expectations on their kids, forcing schoolwork and studying over playing and growing up. It happens more in certain cultures than others.


No, mental illness is often observed in people at both extremes of the spectrum...the difference is most high functioning individuals can hide it better.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

cougar said:


> Plugging along-I am interested to know the name of the school in Calgary that ranks the highest in academics. Thanks


Webber is the one currently ranked as number one, but that is a private school, and not the I was referring too. Westmount charter is consider the number one public school in calgary and that's where my child was tested and we turned them down. Neither of these schools actually match my philosophy .




Sprucegum said:


> Step back and take a deep breath  you are working on a 9 year plan for children less than 9 years old who have not yet given a clear signal where their interests lie. When that interest starts to manifest itself - then you need a plan to guide them in that direction. Until then I would keep them in the school where their friends are and be prepared to move them if/when the infrastructure there does fail.


I not quite sure where you get the idea that I am working the 9 year plan. When I replied to HBOY, he suggested finding some my child is really interested in, I. His cause a sailboat and using that to provide enrichment for my child so they don't get bored. I totally agree with finding ways to keep my child interested. My response is that my child hasn't shown a strong interest in any one area so finding ways to enrich her is challenging. If wait till she is 18 to see what she is interested in, she may been bored to death with school by then. I think we are referring to the same thing. I am trying to find an interest for her as a careers, just so she has a passion for something and enjoyment, Hers comes in learning, she isn't getting that from school. 



nobleea said:


> Those issues are usually a result of parents placing very high expectations on their kids, forcing schoolwork and studying over playing and growing up. It happens more in certain cultures than others.


WRONG! That's an assumption. Many gifted kids function on a very different level than kids their age. Not because there is pressure, but they is a high correlation with double coded kid, gifted and learning disabled at the same time. The gifted school here, is exactly that. Often gifted kids tend to function at a higher maturity than their peers, and tend find it hard to relate to their age groups, which then they tend to have social issues.

There is a correlation between gifted ness and perfectionist tendencies and some of the other OCD, traits. This has nothing to with parenting. In fact, I intentionally choose a school that does not provide school work unless it's required, am constantly forcing my child to go and play instead of read, and trying to teach her to lighten up. She has acted like a young adult since she was about 3. I think she is actually more mature than me. 

Also, I came from a culture were there was extremely high expectations and was forced to handle adult issues, and be close to perfect, I have none of those issues, nor was I considered that gifted. 



atrp2biz said:


> PA,
> 
> nahc and I were debating this over lunch. Not sure you're talking about Webber but it certainly is a good school but we wanted a school with good teaching--not necessarily good students. Webber's scores are very good based on the Fraser studies. However, are those scores already self-selected by their admission criteria? The scores are not an indicator of the teaching and in our view not necessarily worth the price of admission. As a result, the key metric in the Fraser studies we look at is the 'Actual rating vs. predicted based on parents' avg. income' rating.
> 
> ...


Wow, those were my thoughts EXACTLY. We looked at Webber because of their ranking, but decided no, because I felt it was too much making the students fit in their mold, and not working with the child's needs. Though my child would have probably fit their mold, they philosophies didn't fit ours.

We turned down Westmount Charter for the reasons you stated. Though that was a much harder decision, I loved how they tailored the learning and small class sizes, the social challenges along with the fact that my oldest can be quirky, would make her less balanced. We felt for our little one it was better for her confidence in being the best in her class. However, the challenge with this is she doesn't have to learn a thing and she is still the best. We focus really on the effort she makes on not the outcome, so she produces great work by her own motivation, which then gets dumbed down. 

The school we are looking at now, is not even ranked but I know and like the philosophy.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I asked my kids today what their thoughts were...considering they are in the program. Two of them still remember being in the "regular", though very good school, the others started from basically the beginning, so they don't have anything to compare to (and are still quite young).

The two older ones initially hated the change, but that was because of the change. They now both really appreciate being in the program. They look back at the old school and realize that they were bored, unchallenged and held back from their potential. They appreciate being encouraged to think about things, especially things their peers at the old school had no interest in. They now research topics because they are interested in them, and discuss things with their friends.

They said, they'd encourage people to start as early as possible...but they also say it's important to pick the right program. While they usually finish the curriculum before December, the school they are in doesn't just pile on more work, expect them to memorize and regurgitate...instead they encourage them to research things of interest to them, and discuss/debate everything.

It's allowing them to be who they are, not restricting them to be the best at a limited topic.

In the old school, my daughter once had to rewrite a test that she got 100% on because the class failed on average...the worst part is, it was the exact same test...not one question was changed. One of her friends actually got a lower mark because she thought the second test had trick questions.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

When i think of the truly gifted i always conjure up a image like Matt Damon in good will hunting
I loved that movie!everything was child play....you just know there are a few out there in real life like that


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

^do you mind sharing your kids current age, and when did they move? 

There is a very high chance that my kids will be split up from some their friends even if we don't change schools, because they have been talking about moving and splitting the school for the last few years. 

My kids have never been in a 'regular' program, it started out as montessori, then we went with a language program for the challenge, and now we are looking at montessori again because it really encourages kids to be them self. I actually am doing everything I can to prevent them being labelled gifted.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Two kids in jr high, two in elementary. Moved about 3-4 years ago.

I wouldn't worry too much about labels, the school mine are in don't treat them as special, don't encourage them to think of themselves as different...but you can't hide what they are by avoiding labels...

Talking to a kid for a few minutes and observing them for a bit and you can spot the kids who are different. It's the same with sports, watch any team, you can quickly spot the talented players...

All kids hate change, they never want to leave their friends...but the reality is, people rarely keep their elementary friends. Jr high/middle school is the first place most break with their friends...two of mine had to do it earlier. As I said, I had them in a fine arts/good academic school before, but they both tell me they would have preferred going to this school earlier looking back. While they feel they've "caught up", they regret missing out.


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## GreenHouse512 (Oct 22, 2014)

Completely agree with you . I agree that labels are obvious and you can not avoid them. 



Just a Guy said:


> Two kids in jr high, two in elementary. Moved about 3-4 years ago.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about labels, the school mine are in don't treat them as special, don't encourage them to think of themselves as different...*but you can't hide what they are by avoiding labels...*
> 
> ...


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