# Accountant fee question



## canadianjameson (Mar 25, 2016)

Hi all,

So I find myself in a little situation that I need advice with.

I am 33 and I recently (January, 2015) started up a small federally incorporated consulting business to channel several contract through (and for a subsidy reason - long story). Anyways, I do all of my own bookeeping (I am the CFO of two not-for-profit organizations in Montreal) but I decided that I didn't trust myself to do my own taxes so i found an accountant who was recommended. We agreed to a flat fee of $1000 for her to do my personal and corporate taxes (both not hard - i had something like 73 debits / credits all year and 50% of them we small bank fees). 

I felt okay with this price, but then she informed me that she will charge me $100 to make up my T4's / RL-1 forms and when i said i would do it myself but i had a question or two she said that she could look at what I did but she would charge me for it. She also wanted to charge me extra for doing my GST / QST reporting / payment but i was able to do that myself (thanks to this forum). Generally her communication seems to be less than friendly, and I am wondering whether I am getting ripped off for what she is actually doing for me. My father owns his own 1-man small business and his accountant does his bookeeping, GST/QST returns, and taxes for him for a flat fee of $40 per hour. His total yearly bill is going to be about $300 less than mine. I have already reached out to my father's accountant but i'd like to know what other people feel about this pricepoint for what I am getting. Also, I have referred two clients to her and when i casually asked if my fees could be adjusted in light of me bringing her new clients she snapped back that it was illegal for her to do that because she's a CPA. That strikes me as odd, but perhaps its true (?). comments?

Thanks in advance,



Jay


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

I paid about $600 last year, in total, but I have been with my accountant a long time, and she knows what I am doing and why. She charges by the hour, makes my payroll and tax remittance calculations, prepares my T4, does bank reconcilliations and gets a CA to prepare my corporate taxes for a small fixed fee. But, I don't talk to her pretty much from February to the end of April - I know she is slammed.

You have to remember that your accountant is in the middle of her busy season, and is probably lacking sleep, and not interested in casual conversations or phone calls with questions, or in bringing you up to speed so that you can do your own accounting work. You might be happier with someone else - it sounds as though you two are not getting along.


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## canadianjameson (Mar 25, 2016)

wendi1 said:


> I paid about $600 last year, in total, but I have been with my accountant a long time, and she knows what I am doing and why. She charges by the hour, makes my payroll and tax remittance calculations, prepares my T4, does bank reconcilliations and gets a CA to prepare my corporate taxes for a small fixed fee. But, I don't talk to her pretty much from February to the end of April - I know she is slammed.
> 
> You have to remember that your accountant is in the middle of her busy season, and is probably lacking sleep, and not interested in casual conversations or phone calls with questions, or in bringing you up to speed so that you can do your own accounting work. You might be happier with someone else - it sounds as though you two are not getting along.


Thanks for your feedback - I do recognize that she is busy, but the general vibe i get is that my business isn't valuable. I haven't been in contact with her more than a handful of times for a few minutes here and there since last February so I don't know that I have been much of a bother. Again, though, the seasonality might be the issue. 

Anyways, thanks. I generally feel that the cost is too high given that I am literally doing most of the work myself and she's really only responsible for the filings.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

If you are not comfortable with the accountant, you should go elsewhere.

$1K for a corporate return and personal does not sound out of line. Even if you do "all the work" yourself. $100 for completing T4s sounds fair too. What does a doctor or lawyer charge you for filling out a form. By "just filing" your accountant is taking some responsibility for it.

You're not going to get a CPA for $40/hour. Go with your dad's accountant if he's doing a good job and can take you on. But, if you're not comfortable with the communication, fee structure etc, of your current deal you should absolutely go elsewhere. You're not doing yourself or your accountant any favors by sticking with her under those circumstances.


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## Micvanlen (Apr 14, 2016)

I agree with others that if you're not comfortable with the working relationship then you should consider a new accountant. That said, $1000 doesn't sound like a high amount. Good luck



canadianjameson said:


> Hi all,
> 
> So I find myself in a little situation that I need advice with.
> 
> ...


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## a66y (Apr 5, 2016)

$1000 is actually cheap compared to what I've seen some accounting firms charge for Corps. I'm not a certified accountant just yet and I charge around $35-40 per hour for bookkeeping and CRA filings (T4s, HST/GST, etc) you will not find a certified accountant that charges that low of an amount and if you do there's generally a good reason for that.


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## modul (Mar 3, 2016)

curious why you don't just do it all yourself?

it doesn't seem all that complicated, and accountants aren't always perfect either


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

If you have a busy small business with a couple of employees, you are looking at $3000 to 5000 for corporation tax filing, including T4 and HST filings. You can get personal taxes done between $100 to $300 depending on the person. But it's like lawyers, some charge $600 per hour so each phone call you make to them is at least $50 charge, and some charge $200 and will chat on the phone for free.

I think it's fair that she charges you on any time you used even just for "a question or two" while you DIY. Would you still ask her those questions if she is not an accountant? If not, you are asking for her professional opinion. Unlike a retail store, a professional (eg, lawyer, accountant, physician) makes their living by offering their professional opinion. They don't just "answer your one or two questions"... this is how they earn their bread and pay their mortgage.


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## Robillard (Apr 11, 2009)

canadianjameson said:


> Also, I have referred two clients to her and when i casually asked if my fees could be adjusted in light of me bringing her new clients she snapped back that it was illegal for her to do that because she's a CPA. That strikes me as odd, but perhaps its true (?). comments?


I suspect that, under the ethical requirements of their order, Canadian CPAs are not allowed to give a quid pro quo discount on professional fees if a client refers other clients to them. That might be considered a kickback, and it could impair the professional relationship between you and them.

You should also understand that small business tax returns, personal tax returns, and GST/HST returns are more or less a commodity business. The prices can vary a lot though, depending on the size of the accounting firm and its reputation, as well as the complexity of the tax return. 

If you need specialised advice, like in international tax, trusts or other tax planning, you might consider going to a higher cost service provider. You get what you pay for. And no accountant can be an expert in all areas of tax.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

^ As a CPA, I can attest to that. We are not allowed to provide discounts, etc for any referral.


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## domelight (Oct 12, 2012)

Decided to Chime in here. I don't think the fee's are unreasonable and other's have commented regarding the fee discount, I would add some accountants want to ensure it's done correctly, It's not unheard of that clients filing their own paperwork screw it up. Then come complaining "you should have told me" 
CRA is getting more aggressive everyday in holding taxpayers to the letter of the act then in years past, and with a higher fee comes a higher level of consultation. 
I think any business owner of any business nature would tell you They will give better attention to the customer who pays regular price as opposed to the customer who is always haggling about price.
If the person your with now is to a higher standard than you require and you believe your return is that simple than likely your father's accountant is for you. Best Wishes with the decision making process.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We look at it from several perspectives. The first is the after tax cost to us. The second is are we comfortable with the relationship. The discussions can/are very personal and it is important to deal with someone you trust and feel confident discussion you affairs with. The third is quality of the work-we tend to look at the bottom line cost vs. the hourly rate.

We have had the same CPA for ten years. She is excellent. Cost is not longer such an issue because the advice and services, and tax savings that she provides far exceed the value of her professional fees. I took the same approach when we needed some legal representation. It worked out very well.

I would focus on value not price.


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