# 2017 TFSA



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Happy New Year forum.

Ready to max out your 2017 TFSA contribution today? 

If so, what are you buying?

If not, will you be using your TFSA in 2017?


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Yes! Have had the funds parked in a savings just waiting for investment. 
Not sure what I will be buying yet, will have to do more research.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

XIC and XEF, in accordance with overall target allocations.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Did our TFSA's and our grandson's $2500 RESP today. Equity market.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

At this time hold only one stock in my tfsa,will add the 2017 max contribution to this tomorrow


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

$3K only (gotta to pay those cc bills soon) ... in REITs with DRIP.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

Yes, and wishing it was $10,000 rather than $5,500.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Same bobs! Ah well, I'll take the $5,500. That's still very good and a yearly goal to max out both for us.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I do plan to make a TFSA contribution in 2017, but I am torn as to how to invest it. The markets are overpriced and a correction would not be unexpected in the near future. Bonds are producing nothing. Perhaps a HISA for now?


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

Will definitely max out TFSA asap.
TFSA will be the third last vehicle standing as doom stealthily approaches.
(unless there is some kind of fundamental change)
- second last will be cash accounts
- dead last will be all things shiny and precious

This year; less Cdn equity - more US equity
- less exposure to 'materials' - more to consumer wants and needs


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm' going to be indulging my savings bug until tax time. By then I should have my TFSA and RRSP maxed out. RESP will be maxed out tomorrow.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I am going to buy SCU and pray it recovers in 2017 lol


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'll be putting my $5500 into BCE.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Will max out the TFSA, my method is to do auto purchases weekly into the Mawer Balanced Fund - MAW104. I have held this investment for 3 years and it has done fairly good.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Bleh I lied about BCE into tsfa....instead back into Western Forest Products 3800 shares...Trump dump is over rated here, Asian market stable...Canadian peso adds tailwind.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

newfoundlander61 said:


> Will max out the TFSA, my method is to do auto purchases weekly into the Mawer Balanced Fund - MAW104. I have held this investment for 3 years and it has done fairly good.


Can you buy MAW104 without an initial $50k to invest?


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## Soon Forget (Mar 25, 2014)

bobsyouruncle said:


> Can you buy MAW104 without an initial $50k to invest?


Looks like the 50k is if you're transferring to Mawer's brokerage. To buy their funds from a discount brokerage the initial investment minimum is 5k.

http://www.mawer.com/individual-investors/ways-to-invest/


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

Soon Forget said:


> Looks like the 50k is if you're transferring to Mawer's brokerage. To buy their funds from a discount brokerage the initial investment minimum is 5k.
> 
> http://www.mawer.com/individual-investors/ways-to-invest/


Yes. I just realized I can buy a minimum of $5k through Questrade for $9.99.


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## EngPhysGuy (Jul 9, 2015)

I'll be maxing out shortly and plan to get my REIT contribution back up to its target levels.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

5500$ in ZRE this morning


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## EngPhysGuy (Jul 9, 2015)

larry81 said:


> 5500$ in ZRE this morning


Just curious... what was your reasoning behind ZRE as opposed to VRE or the other options out there?


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

Putting the full amount into mine and DW this week.
She wants more of her two holdings (T & PWF). Far be it for me to argue.
I'll be putting mine into more SRU.UN


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I am waffling whether to put CAN$5,500 or ask TD to work out how much $US I can put in-kind via TDB8152. They always use a horrible exchange rate for the calculation, and although I don't actually pay it, it artificially limits how much I can put in.

Would they do that same calculation with in-kind deposit of DLR? How about RY?


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## VLT (Jan 1, 2017)

*Max Power*

Killam Properties Reit, KMP_UN. I just bought $3,600 which is enough to DRIP and I will wait for a market dip to invest the other $1,900 in something (?)


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes it will cost you $5k through any discount broker. I did it with CIBC Investors Edge, it is $50k if buying direct from Mawer.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

Ended up putting it all in VCN to balance my overall portfolio.

I was tempted to go into CAD stocks, but I need to do more research. So I'm sticking with my CCP approach for now.


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## Steve Divi (Jul 14, 2016)

$5500 into cash (HISA) waiting for crash that is long overdue.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

You realize its only been 1 year since the last crash? Or is it going to be the apocalypse this time?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ LOL ... are you trying to scare him?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I predicted a correction/crash last year. Glad I didn't act on it. Would have missed out on +21% CDN equity return.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Already contributed $5500 plus our 2016 withdrawals to each. 

Will use the cash to buy BMOIL HISA AAT770. Minimum purchase is $5000. No problem, but we plan on using this in part to fund our tax installments. Not sure what happens to AAT770 when balance goes below $5000. 

Assuming this works out, following year we will be able to contribute $5500 plus our 2017 withdrawals, which will in time will mean that we can deposit at least enough for our installments at beginning of year, earn a little interest tax-free, and always have the cash we need to pay installments.

Open to better ideas


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Currently holding out on buying until trump's inauguration but I have done my contribution - anyone have an thoughts on holding out to see when trump actually takes office?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Will use the cash to buy BMOIL HISA AAT770. Minimum purchase is $5000. No problem, but we plan on using this in part to fund our tax installments. Not sure what happens to AAT770 when balance goes below $5000.


You cannot keep it. Balance must be over $5k at all times. Been there, done that.


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## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

BIR - birchciff @ $8.50
VII - seven generations @ $27.05
both to-day in my tfsa - $5500 all gone!!


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> You cannot keep it. Balance must be over $5k at all times. Been there, done that.


Thanks for input. What exactly happens if I own say $9000 of AAT770 and then I sell $5000?


That would still work for us. I would sell something else so that we have Estimated Taxes plus $5000 in AAT770.

Another option might be to buy a series of short term bonds with maturities to match the installment dates. There are municipals that would provide a higher yield than AAT770. Maybe I should do that?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Thanks for input. What exactly happens if I own say $9000 of AAT770 and then I sell $5000?


Nope. The system will not let you sell anything that results in a balance of less than $5000.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Looks like there are some corporate and Quebec municipal bonds with maturities approx when needed for Quarterly installments. Most pay just over 1%pa. No big deal but I suppose better than just putting it in regular savings account.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Looks like there are some corporate and Quebec municipal bonds with maturities approx when needed for Quarterly installments. Most pay just over 1%pa. No big deal but I suppose better than just putting it in regular savings account.


This was doable, but decided it did not make sense. I will instead add high yield dividend payers, debentures or REITs (that pay a lot of ROC) into the TFSA. If I keep the funds set aside for taxes in a taxable account, the interest is so low, tax on that will be insignificant compares with the tax saved on higher yielding securities in the TFSA.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

FWIW, just contributed and maxed out TFSA(s). Need to consider what to buy.

Likely more bank, more telco, more utility and more REIT. Same boring plan as last year but that provided 20% gain.

I see the deep pockets here like larry have already gone with (under-valued) ZRE. 

Curious what others are doing. AR? James - don't tell me GICs!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It will be a REIT...when the price is right.


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## VLT (Jan 1, 2017)

My Own Advisor, are you buying any residential REITS?


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## Video_Frank (Aug 2, 2013)

$5.5k XEF, $5.5k XBB as per my investment statement.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

VLT said:


> My Own Advisor, are you buying any residential REITS?


FWIW, a REIT is right for me since I am in retirement, and my TFSA will likely be a legacy. What one has in their TFSA, or portfolio overall, depends on where they are at along the investing journey.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Was thinking about Riocan. 5.25% yield but chance of drop in unit price as interest rates go up. Looking at Conv Debentures instead. Similar yield, some upside potential, little or no downside if held to maturity.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

VLT said:


> My Own Advisor, are you buying any residential REITS?


Yes, over this year, I will in registered accounts. I feel housing is always needed (a foundation in Maslow's hierarchy) and given how much a house costs for many folks (especially in Toronto, Vancouver and even Ottawa), renting is likely the only way to go.

We're not leaving a legacy but we do intend to live off our dividends to a degree within 7-10 years, so, the more assets we have churning out income - the better.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

Transfer the full amount to the brokerage today...will buy ZAG and ZRE equally before the next ex-dividend date.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I was thinking about adding US$ in-kind, but went with $CAN because I can just do it online instead of waiting to talk to someone.

I also rebalanced my TFSA and traded my TDB216 (a TD index fund) for a mix of VDY and ZDV. I am still not certain if going with the dividend theme is the right thing to do.
I traded in all my TDB162 (bond fund) for XQB.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Thoughts about holding some of the ZDV directly gardner?

35% financials (banks, lifecos)
23% energy
14% utilities


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

My Own Advisor said:


> Thoughts about holding some of the ZDV directly gardner?


My non-registered holdings are mostly direct. I am tending to stick with ETFs in my registered accounts. I am uncertain why, exactly these days, but it started with my registered accounts being more important, conservative, and couch-potatoish, vs. unregistered being risk-taking "mad-money". Nowadays my non-registered holdings are almost all dividend stocks and form the greater part of my savings.

TFSA is a tax advantaged place to hold the bond part of my overall portfolio. This means that the equity part is comparatively small, and with a smaller aggregate amount, the ETFs give a lot more diversity than direct holdings of a reasonable number of issues could.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Seems smart, re: non-reg. have direct holdings; TFSA bonds and ETFs. I was just curious.

Over time I'm weighting my TFSA towards CDN REITs (for distributions) and CDN blue-chip stocks (for dividends). I will always keep ETFs but I'm leaning on owning those ETFs only inside the RRSP for U.S. and International exposure. We'll see. 

One thing for sure, the TFSA is still an awesome wealth building tool. Whatta gift...


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

One thing for sure said:


> ....MOA..sssssshhh! dont say that too loud...... someone might be listening!!!....


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## DigginDoc (Sep 17, 2015)

I'm putting the top ups for my wife and I in shortly but waiting also. Currently the regular stocks and a couple of reits. At 70, they will be fun legacies anyway. Just want to see the terrain when Trump takes over. I am also happy to read what others are doing for info. Thanks.
Cheers
Doc


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Will max out soon ,maybe Northwest Co (NWC), a steady Eddy....

Aren't TFSAs over hyped, it is your taxed dollars you are salting away, maybe buy farmland ?

Still any saving plan is wise.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Tax-free income is overhyped? Do share...


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Just that you are putting in net income cash that might down the road pay 5%, so a freebie of $5000 per $100,000 in savings, not exactly the glory land of money returns.

This fund the TFSA has prepaid tax before the cash is contributed, you have paid up at the start but any growth is tax free.

Decent deal but not exactly game changing.....imo


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Islenska said:


> Just that you are putting in net income cash that might down the road pay 5%, so a freebie of $5000 per $100,000 in savings, not exactly the glory land of money returns.
> 
> This fund the TFSA has prepaid tax before the cash is contributed, you have paid up at the start but any growth is tax free.
> 
> Decent deal but not exactly game changing.....imo


Put it this way... It's not unreasonable to see people getting to a million in their TFSAs after 30 years or so. A million dollars invested and accessible outside of the reach of the government's grabby paws is a very big deal.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is reasonable for TFSA capital to grow at 6% per annum with a 60/40 or 70/30 type portfolio. The bigger question is 'when' will the government cap lifetime contribution room, not if. Time will tell.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

My Own Advisor said:


> overhyped? Do share...


My perspective is that TFSAs will likely remain pretty small potatoes compared to RRSPs. Serious savers will have still-greater non-registered investments. As with most here, I am a latecomer to TFSAs since they've not existed that long, but even if they'd been around since I was 18, my TFSA would still be dwarfed by my RRSP. For really rich folks I imagine they're both bubkes.

I'm not knocking the program -- I really like the idea, and I'm glad the Liberals are keeping it in action. Any harbour from taxes is a good one, even if comparatively small.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Kozebubkes or not, would have been huge at $10K/year. Would have dwarfed RRSPs for most people. Even at 5.5K/year it is still an awesome way to get youngsters involved in savings and investment, much more efficient than RRSPs.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I doubt there is a single reason for a young person to contribute to a RRSP before maxing their TSFA...seriously.Much danger of flavour of the day governments dipping their fingers into the large nest egg of RRSP's...


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Eder said:


> I doubt there is a single reason for a young person to contribute to a RRSP before maxing their TSFA...seriously.Much danger of flavour of the day governments dipping their fingers into the large nest egg of RRSP's...


interesting point eder. so, you would rec. topping up tfsa over rrsp, for younger people... even tho' they see the instant grat. of a 'tax refund' with the rrsp?
full disclosure: i'm currently having this conversation with my kids!! (might start a new thread on this...)


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I'd say don't start dumping cash into an RRSP until you start hit tax tier 3. ~46K in BC. That's a wide tax bracket.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I recommend to my kids that if they can do it now (they can), that they max out both TSFAand RRSP.
How long before they hit the higher tax bracket?
Will they have the money available to fill up their contribution room when that time comes, or will they spend many more years with an anemic RRSP balance?
If the money hasn't been growing inside the tax-deferred RRSP where has it been and what has it been earning?
Will they go on mat leave, be between jobs, take time off or buy a house where the RRSP might be helpful? (I strongly discourage touching it though).
Worst case, they retire early like we did.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> interesting point eder. so, you would rec. topping up tfsa over rrsp, for younger people... even tho' they see the instant grat. of a 'tax refund' with the rrsp?
> full disclosure: i'm currently having this conversation with my kids!! (might start a new thread on this...)


I would absolutely recommend maxing out TFSA over RRSP - for most young adults - or any adults for that matter. And if you're really, really, debating it - then do both. End of debate


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> I would absolutely recommend maxing out TFSA over RRSP - for most young adults - or any adults for that matter. And if you're really, really, debating it - then do both. End of debate


would that everyone had the means to do both!


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Well, that's tough for sure, max out both, but when in doubt try and max out TFSA (I mean, tax-free!!!) _and then_ if you have money leftover (which usually means you have a good income) then work on maxing out RRSP.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

We don't know what type of government policies the future brings in 30 years, but I'm sure that both types of retirement savings plans may be closely looked at as a new source of tax revenue. If I was in my 20's I would be more wary of the RRSP plan than an easily exited TSFA plan if I had to choose only one.

Stay liquid my friend!


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## hboy54 (Sep 16, 2016)

Eder said:


> We don't know what type of government policies the future brings in 30 years, but I'm sure that both types of retirement savings plans may be closely looked at as a new source of tax revenue.


Not to mention the inclusion rate on capital gains.

One of my investing working assumptions is that taxes only go up long term. 

I cannot see in 20 years time hundreds of thousands of 7 figure TFSA plans going unmolested. If it were millions of plans, sure, but most people won't be sufficiently on the ball to build any wealth here, so for the small percentage that do, the government inevitably will come with outstretched hand.

A more interesting question is the capital gains inclusion rate. As the average politician is vastly wealthier than the average citizen and likely has large capital gains, will they really differentially tax themselves? Consider that much of their money is made after government with stock options from board seats and similar.

I would think the RRSP pools would be safest. They are after all already in line to be taxed, though there might be moves to tax them sooner rather than later.

I think also that there will be a wealth tax some day. It used to be some 20, 30 years ago that seniors were relatively poor, and the economy was growing with lots of boomers making lots of employment income. So it historically made sense that the most "plucking with the lease hissing" was income tax. Now with seniors being very wealthy and younger people perhaps not doing so well with employment, the time might come to directly tax capital. Is it really fair to leave the $2M house of a 70 year old untaxed, the house that he or she paid $50,000 for 40 years ago, while some 30 year old with 3 kids can barely make ends meet on $50K a year? I expect a combined tide of boomers dying off and young people voting could turn things here some day.

All fun speculation on my part, but who knows? I am still left with the practical question of do I work down my RRSP or take capital gains every year to pay about $10,000 annual income tax (see taxes only goes up, above, so I have decided to get on with it a bit at a time)? I have no good reason to argue either way, but one or the other will likely result in lower lifetime taxation.

hboy54


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Islenska said:


> Just that you are putting in net income cash that *might down the road pay 5%* ...
> Decent deal but not exactly game changing.....imo


Who says one has to wait? Or that it's maybe 5%?

Granted, it helped to transfer in-kind in early 2009 but as soon as the first dividend was paid - 11% income was coming in, monthly. The 60% CG plus a couple of years of 11% income were cashed in then withdrawn to accelerate the retiring of the mortgage ... freeing up after-tax cash flow. No taxes were reducing what was available to pay off the mortgage.

As a side bonus, the CG + income gains became contribution room the year following the withdrawal. 




gardner said:


> My perspective is that TFSAs will likely remain pretty small potatoes compared to RRSPs.


In what way?

I'm not sure one if five with an RRSP have maxed it out, like was reported to be the case for the TFSA. Interestingly when broken down by income level, *all* income levels have some that have maxed out their TFSA, with 60% of the TFSA holders who maxed it out falling at or under $60K of income.




gardner said:


> ... Serious savers will have still-greater non-registered investments. As with most here, I am a latecomer to TFSAs since they've not existed that long, but even if they'd been around since I was 18, my TFSA would still be dwarfed by my RRSP. For really rich folks I imagine they're both bubkes.


If "bubkes" is really "bubkis", meaning almost nothing ... the 2013 numbers have no categories with zero TFSA holders. The category with the most maxed TFSAs is $100K to $150K. By income category, this one comes in third for most number of TFSA holders.


What in your opinion is the downside for a rich person to use a TFSA?




Eder said:


> I doubt there is a single reason for a young person to contribute to a RRSP before maxing their TSFA...seriously.Much danger of flavour of the day governments dipping their fingers into the large nest egg of RRSP's...


I suspect the TFSA has the bigger danger of some sort of restriction being attached to it. After all, any taxes added to the TFSA are fresh revenue. 

RRSPs are taxed at withdrawal. Add in that when the RRSP holder dies without a spouse to roll it over to - the full RRSP is income, possibly driving up the estate tax return income levels to a nice bonus tax level.


Cheers


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

TFSAs will likely remain pretty small potatoes compared to RRSPs because the RRSP contribution limit is currently $26,010 (2017) whereas the TFSA limit is $5,500 (2017). This is nearly five times as high. There is no suggestion that the TFSA program will significantly accelerate faster than the RRSP will -- ATM, they are linked to the same formula for tracking inflation, aren't they? So I am predicting that we will see TFSA limits as ~21% of those for RRSPs going forward.



Eclectic12 said:


> What in your opinion is the downside for a rich person to use a TFSA?


There probably isn't one, other than the hassle of dealing with it. But for folks with $300M net worth, the $70K in a TFSA is noise. They will be much more interested in their off-shore trusts and so forth.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I would hardly think 1 in 5 have a maxed out TFSA. Maybe 1 in 25 at best. I could be totally wrong of course.

It would be interesting to see a study of who has maxed it out - % of high-income earners, modest-middle income earners, some lower-income earners? Surely CRA has the numbers.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... I suspect the TFSA has the bigger danger of some sort of restriction being attached to it. After all, any taxes added to the TFSA are fresh revenue.
> RRSPs are taxed at withdrawal. Add in that when the RRSP holder dies without a spouse to roll it over to - the full RRSP is income, possibly driving up the estate tax return income levels to a nice bonus tax level.
> Cheers


Yes, good points. The TSFA is subject to gov't whims. Didn't it used to be $10k/yr once? 
It used to be that the first $1,000 of Cdn interest income was tax free, but that went away in 1988. 
It used to be that our first $100k of capital gains was tax free, but that went away in 1994 as Paul Martin sought to slay the deficit - hmmm hboy54 ponders changes to the capital gains inclusion rate - deja vu anyone? It's one reason I'm crystalizing offsetting gains/losses on an annual basis when I can. 
I agree that the RRSP seems less likely to be tinkered with. It is after all intended to be the 'third leg' of our retirement, to keep seniors from living in poverty, etc.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> I would hardly think 1 in 5 have a maxed out TFSA. Maybe 1 in 25 at best. I could be totally wrong of course.
> It would be interesting to see a study of who has maxed it out - % of high-income earners, modest-middle income earners, some lower-income earners? Surely CRA has the numbers.


Yup,
From Gary Marr/National Post http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/tfsa/exclusive-canadians-maxing-out-their-tfsas-from-all-walks-of-life?__lsa=748f-4657

View attachment 13577


And at the CRA: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/stts/tfsa-celi/menu-eng.html


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

My Own Advisor said:


> I would hardly think 1 in 5 have a maxed out TFSA. Maybe 1 in 25 at best. I could be totally wrong of course.
> 
> It would be interesting to see a study of who has maxed it out - % of high-income earners, modest-middle income earners, some lower-income earners? Surely CRA has the numbers.


It was 1 in 5 of those who have TFSA as of 2015 (when the contribution room was $10k). 

http://business.financialpost.com/p...-tfsas-from-all-walks-of-life?__lsa=0882-13b9


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> You cannot keep it. Balance must be over $5k at all times. Been there, done that.


Finally received an answer from BMOIL. 



> The initial purchase for this fund is $5,000 Canadian and the minimum for subsequent purchases is $500.
> 
> If you go below the minimum purchase amount then the fund company has the option to liquidate the fund. However this doesn't happen very often.


Not going that way anyway, but sounds a bit iffy anyway.


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## canew90 (Jul 13, 2016)

My Own Advisor said:


> I would hardly think 1 in 5 have a maxed out TFSA. Maybe 1 in 25 at best. I could be totally wrong of course.
> 
> It would be interesting to see a study of who has maxed it out - % of high-income earners, modest-middle income earners, some lower-income earners? Surely CRA has the numbers.


Lucky being Canadian, we can make up the difference later when we have higher earnings. That's one area where we have an advantage over the US.
My wife & I are max'd.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

mordko said:


> It was 1 in 5 of those who have TFSA as of 2015 (when the contribution room was $10k).
> 
> http://business.financialpost.com/p...-tfsas-from-all-walks-of-life?__lsa=0882-13b9


"Of the over 28 million Canadians over 18 according to StatCan, 7% of Canadians eligible for TFSAs have maxed out their room."

OK, makes more sense. Certainly not 1 in 5 but higher than I thought.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

gardner said:


> TFSAs will likely remain pretty small potatoes compared to RRSPs because the RRSP contribution limit is currently $26,010 (2017) whereas the TFSA limit is $5,500 (2017). This is nearly five times as high.


I see ... the potential maximum is more important that what people are being granted or use?

How about those making a low income?
Or how about multiple years where Stats Canada says a whopping 8% of the total RRSP contribution room granted has been used?


It seems to me a more complicated situation than paying attention to the maximum possible RRSP contribution grant.




gardner said:


> There is no suggestion that the TFSA program will significantly accelerate faster than the RRSP will ...


Yet for friends with over $100K of income - they report from 2009 on, their RRSP contribution granted is always lower than the TFSA contribution room grant, with the biggest swing being the year the TFSA grant was $10K.

There will be people that are granted the full amount but there's a mix of those with/without enough income who do not fit the profile.




gardner said:


> ... There probably isn't one, other than the hassle of dealing with it. But for folks with $300M net worth, the $70K in a TFSA is noise. They will be much more interested in their off-shore trusts and so forth.


Maybe ... but where has a manager working on the off shore trusts etc, it would seem a drop in the buck - cost wise, to setup/run the TFSA.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> My Own Advisor said:
> 
> 
> > I would hardly think 1 in 5 have a maxed out TFSA. Maybe 1 in 25 at best. I could be totally wrong of course.
> ...


"Almost 1 in 5" seems a lot closer to "1 in 5" than the suspected "1 in 25". 

Good catch though ... 


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Yes, good points. The TSFA is subject to gov't whims. Didn't it used to be $10k/yr once?
> I agree that the RRSP seems less likely to be tinkered with. It is after all intended to be the 'third leg' of our retirement, to keep seniors from living in poverty, etc.


True ... though as I say, if it's tax revenue they are after with registered accounts as the target, the TFSA seems to me to be clear cut winner as all of the TFSA is Canadian tax free at the moment.

The RRSP likely cuts the retirement tax bill for the gov't for things like OAS.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> "Of the over 28 million Canadians over 18 according to StatCan, 7% of Canadians eligible for TFSAs have maxed out their room."
> OK, makes more sense. Certainly not 1 in 5 but higher than I thought.


Ahh ... I missed including the "of TFSA holders part", which made it looks like I meant all Canadians over 18.

Part of what makes it hard to compare is that there always seems to be different metrics being used. If the median RRSP contribution is given then the TFSA average contribution is given. For RRSPs, there's mention of 8% of the total granted used but the TFSA numbers focus on maxing out.


Cheers


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