# Car Loan (Mistake)



## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi, I made a terrible mistake, I decided to take out a car loan for my now ex boyfriend. It is a mistake because it is a big loan, for a luxury car. Now that we are over, I would like to cut all ties but I cannot afford this loan payment monthly. I have perfect credit and have worked very hard to save a bit of money. I was thinking of returning the car to a car dealership (at a major loss) and then just defaulting on the leftover of the car loan... Unfortunately my ex hasn't taken good care of it so if I sell it privately, I will also lose much money. This does sound irresponsible but seems for now the only viable solution. What will the impact be on my credit rating (Which is now at 9.3)? Thank you so much.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There are a few car experts around here, hopefully somebody will know and can help you out with ideas.

Was it a new car, or used? Unfortunately new cars instantly depreciate the moment they leave the dealer's lot.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Unfortunately, I see this happen quite often, and I never understood "why". NO ONE should EVER be taking out loans for somebody else - regardless their relation.

You have two options: 
1- you get the loan transferred to your ex-boyfriend, or
2- you trade-in the car and have your ex assume any loss (chances are you will be assuming them if he's a deadbeat)

I do have a couple of questions that intrigue me. Did you take the loan on your own or jointly with him? If on your own, why? Is it feasible to simply take the car over? And what do you mean by a credit rating of 9.3? Credit is measured by a Beacon or FICO score, which are usually between 600-900. Anything below 600 is considered poor, but I have never seen a score below 400. I'm assuming your payments are already defaulting?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

To whom is the loan payable? A bank or...? For how long have payments been made and who has made those payments?

I am guessing the car stands as security for the loan and there is a chattel mortgage registered against the car, but that's just a guess.

You mention turning the vehicle in to a dealer. Is it in your possession and is title in your name? 

Like Mortgage u/w, I am curious about a 9.3 credit rating. Out of a possible 10? Who came up with that rating system?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

You can't get out of it by handing the car back to the dealer. If they sell it at a loss they can come after you for the rest of the money. Whose name is the car in? Whose name is the loan in? I don't think you can take out a loan on someone else's car so I should think, both car and loan are in one name? In that case, take back your car (if the loan is in your name) or let him make the payments and keep the car (if it is in his name).


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Unfortunately, I see this happen quite often, and I never understood "why". NO ONE should EVER be taking out loans for somebody else - regardless their relation.
> 
> You have two options:
> 1- you get the loan transferred to your ex-boyfriend, or
> ...



Unfortunately I can't transfer the loan as his credit isn't good... Looking back, I don't know why I did it. 
I took the loan out on my own, but at first I thought it was joint. I think it happened so fast or he lied. 
It is not feasible to take the car as its too much on my own. Perhaps I should just sell it for whatever I get and use up ALL my savings for the loan? 

I saw my credit rating on a lease application and it was 9.3 ... Maybe that was a typo. Regardless, Ive worked very hard at having perfect credit. How damaging is it to have bad credit for a few years? 

Thanks for your answer.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Unfortunately, I see this happen quite often, and I never understood "why". NO ONE should EVER be taking out loans for somebody else - regardless their relation.
> 
> You have two options:
> 1- you get the loan transferred to your ex-boyfriend, or
> ...





james4beach said:


> There are a few car experts around here, hopefully somebody will know and can help you out with ideas.
> 
> Was it a new car, or used? Unfortunately new cars instantly depreciate the moment they leave the dealer's lot.





Rusty O'Toole said:


> You can't get out of it by handing the car back to the dealer. If they sell it at a loss they can come after you for the rest of the money. Whose name is the car in? Whose name is the loan in? I don't think you can take out a loan on someone else's car so I should think, both car and loan are in one name? In that case, take back your car (if the loan is in your name) or let him make the payments and keep the car (if it is in his name).


@James4beach 
It was used (2013) so I would be reselling a used car for a huge loss (ex boyfriend hasn't really kept it in tip top shape).

@Rusty O'Toole
The car is registered in his name, and the loan in mine. We live in Quebec so perhaps this is allowed here? I wish it was all in his name! 
How will they come back for the rest of the money? Can I just default and live with the consequences?


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

*evil genius*



Mukhang pera said:


> To whom is the loan payable? A bank or...? For how long have payments been made and who has made those payments?
> 
> I am guessing the car stands as security for the loan and there is a chattel mortgage registered against the car, but that's just a guess.
> 
> ...



The loan is a bank loan, and the car is registered under his name.

I will verify the rating system and let you know!


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mukhang pera said:


> To whom is the loan payable? A bank or...? For how long have payments been made and who has made those payments?
> 
> I am guessing the car stands as security for the loan and there is a chattel mortgage registered against the car, but that's just a guess.
> 
> ...





Rusty O'Toole said:


> You can't get out of it by handing the car back to the dealer. If they sell it at a loss they can come after you for the rest of the money. Whose name is the car in? Whose name is the loan in? I don't think you can take out a loan on someone else's car so I should think, both car and loan are in one name? In that case, take back your car (if the loan is in your name) or let him make the payments and keep the car (if it is in his name).


The loan is in my name and the car is in his name. Unfortunately I can never guarantee he makes the payments which is a big problem. This is why I was wondering if there is any way I can get out of this mess. 
If the dealers sell it at a loss, what happens if I dont pay the difference?


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> You can't get out of it by handing the car back to the dealer. If they sell it at a loss they can come after you for the rest of the money. Whose name is the car in? Whose name is the loan in? I don't think you can take out a loan on someone else's car so I should think, both car and loan are in one name? In that case, take back your car (if the loan is in your name) or let him make the payments and keep the car (if it is in his name).





Mukhang pera said:


> To whom is the loan payable? A bank or...? For how long have payments been made and who has made those payments?
> 
> I am guessing the car stands as security for the loan and there is a chattel mortgage registered against the car, but that's just a guess.
> 
> ...





james4beach said:


> There are a few car experts around here, hopefully somebody will know and can help you out with ideas.
> 
> Was it a new car, or used? Unfortunately new cars instantly depreciate the moment they leave the dealer's lot.


It was used, 2013...


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## Chica (Jan 19, 2016)

elizabeth, you should watch Judge Judy. Almost every time I watch the show your exact scenario is played out. Boyfriend/girlfriend buy a car and take out a loan and the relationship ends and the person with the car decides not to pay anymore (probably the one who had the bad credit to begin with) or trashes the car and the other person is left stuck making the payments. And one person always takes a hit on their credit rating.

You don't need any ties to him. If you've talked to your bank you'll find out they don't want your used car either. They just want their money. Either sell the car or have the bank take it back. And yes, there will be a difference between the amount the car sold for and the amount you still owe on the loan that you will have to pay.

Then you go after your ex for half the difference. Once you're chasing after him for the difference you should look into applying to the Judge Judy show to get a judgement against him which the show pays, plus pays your travel and hotel. Judge Judy always awards only half the amount that is still owing because of the boyfriend/girlfriend's stupidity of taking out a loan. Probably the judges here in Canada have a similar view.

An expensive mistake but you don't want to drag this on too long having this car between you. If he gets in an accident and it's totaled and he doesn't have collision insurance, you're still stuck paying the amount due on the loan whether or not the car is driveable.

Just wondering how he managed to get the car in his name if the loan is in your name?

You might want to consult a lawyer, most provinces have legal services that you can call for a name of a lawyer who will give you half hour consult for $30 or so.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

You need to talk to a lawyer. See if legal aid will help. Gather up all the paperwork, like loan papers, car registration, sales contract, any receipts etc.

You signed the loan, and that means you owe the money. All of it. If you don't pay it back the bank or loan company has the right to collect the money same as any other loan. There are millions of people who are underwater on car loans who wish they could dump the car and stick the lender for the rest of the money. Too bad, the banks already thought of it and they are not interested in bailing you out.

Your best shot is probably to take the car back, clean it up as best you can without putting any large amount of money into it, and sell it privately. You will get more that way than if you sold it to a dealer. If the bank repossesses it they will add all kinds of fees and expenses then sell it wholesale and you will be worse off.

If there is a balance owing you will have to pay it. If the car is not collateral for the loan then you can make payments, but if the car is collateral you must pay the loan off when you sell it.

We don't know if the value of the car is larger than the loan, in that case you can get out from under without putting more money in .

The whole thing is complicated. Even more complicated as I don't know anything bout Quebec law. Although, I am pretty sure banks aren't giving away free cars there or anywhere else. See a lawyer and don't forget to bring all the paperwork you can find.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Do you have physical posession of car or does ex still have it. Is he willing to return it to you and sign ownership to you.

Assuming he will sign it over to you, you should go talk to your bank. Advise them of the situation and tell them you are trying to sell the car. They may allow you to skip a payment or pay interest only for a month or so to give you a break while you try to sell it.
Detail the car as best you can and get it listed on Kijiji and auto trader. I suggest you have your dad or brother meet prospective purchasers. ( not being sexist, just a safety thing).
Arrange with the bank to release vehicle if they even hold it as security.
Arrange a reduced payment on the deficiency balance.

Consider it an expensive lesson. You could try suing your ex for the deficiency in small claims court but not sure how far you would get. Perhaps a default judgement and garnishee his job.

If you turn the car back to the bank, they will sell it( likely for less than you would get) then go after you for the deficiency and this will destroy your credit.

The dealer is likely not involved in anyway and unless you try to sell the car to them or ask them to sell it for you( they would charge a fee) if you return the car to them, they would turn it over to the bank.
Note. This may vary by province and whether you signed a loan or conditional sales contract.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Sorry to appear pedestrian, elizabeth, but a bit more info please.

The loan is from a bank to you. Title to the car is in his name. Does the bank hold any security for the loan? Ordinarily, the bank would take the car as security, but if the loan is to you and title is with him, I don't see that being the case unless he was party to the loan agreement and pledged title to the car.

I know little about Quebec law, but one angle I am looking at is whether Quebec is a "seize or sue" jurisdiction. That won't matter if the bank does not have the car as security.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> Unfortunately I can't transfer the loan as his credit isn't good... Looking back, I don't know why I did it.
> I took the loan out on my own, but at first I thought it was joint. I think it happened so fast or he lied.
> It is not feasible to take the car as its too much on my own. Perhaps I should just sell it for whatever I get and use up ALL my savings for the loan?
> 
> ...


Please provide more details. What is the make of the car and what is the balance of your loan? Who is making the loan payments? What does your ex have to say about the whole situation? Is he cooperating with you? Willing to sell the car?


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## xtthew (Aug 16, 2017)

Call your lender and ask for a couple of extensions on payments 

Then go to a lawyer and ask for legal advice on what to do next.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> The loan is in my name and the car is in his name.


Ouch. You can't even sell the car if it's not in your name. I bet the loan is not secured against the car either.

Probably small-claims court would be the simplest. Produce all the facts and paperwork for the judge and get her to rule that the boyfriend has to take over the financing and pay you back the loan. Then, most likely, pay the loan back yourself anyway, as the deadbeat ex ignores the ruling and drives around in his free car.

Who paid for insuring it? You might be able to cancel the insurance and get a few bucks back if it's in your name.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

A credit rating is really the result of whether a person does what they promise to do. You promised to pay the bank back their money and now you are thinking about defaulting on that promise. I don't think you need us to tell you what it will do to your credit rating. Credit ratings are designed to separate the people that do what they promise from those that do not.

You mentioned in the original post that you were going to pay for the loan, when your boyfriend was your boyfriend. That tells me that you must have believed that you could afford it then. Is it just a matter of "not wanting" to pay it now that your boyfriend is not your boyfriend. With that being said, why should the bank pay for your dating mistakes. They loaned the money to you in good faith. Were they wrong?

I find it hard to believe that the loan company would not want your boyfriend as a joint debtor if he was the only name on the title for the car. Obviously he must have agreed to put the car up as collateral for the loan but I would have thought the bank would also want him as a debtor as well, just for legal purposes. Not that it matters. Sounds like he is a loser.

Anyway, the best you can garner from this situation is to learn a good lesson. You will be paying for the lesson for a long time whether you pay off the loan or default so don't waste it.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

gardner said:


> Ouch. You can't even sell the car if it's not in your name. I bet the loan is not secured against the car either.
> 
> Probably small-claims court would be the simplest. Produce all the facts and paperwork for the judge and get her to rule that the boyfriend has to take over the financing and pay you back the loan. Then, most likely, pay the loan back yourself anyway, as the deadbeat ex ignores the ruling and drives around in his free car.
> 
> Who paid for insuring it? You might be able to cancel the insurance and get a few bucks back if it's in your name.


So... I dont know much about car loans but what do you mean by securing the loan against the car? Yes, as you can see, I did this loan way too fast. I am currently looking for a lawyer and will see what can happen. The ex pays for insuring it..


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Yes that is what I am doing this week,


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Please provide more details. What is the make of the car and what is the balance of your loan? Who is making the loan payments? What does your ex have to say about the whole situation? Is he cooperating with you? Willing to sell the car?


He is a bit aloof, and saying the car wont sell for much (he didn't upkeep it...). It's a 50K loan, 2013 BMW X5 M series. I for one, prefer my bike. He is making the payments with however much he wants each month, so never the full amount which is why I am pondering of ways to get this loan out of my life. I think at this point, I will lose all my savings, even if I sell the car, but at least I have good credit (is it worth losing all my savings though? ) ...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

OptsyEagle said:


> A credit rating is really the result of whether a person does what they promise to do. You promised to pay the bank back their money and now you are thinking about defaulting on that promise. I don't think you need us to tell you what it will do to your credit rating. Credit ratings are designed to separate the people that do what they promise from those that do not.
> 
> You mentioned in the original post that you were going to pay for the loan, when your boyfriend was your boyfriend. That tells me that you must have believed that you could afford it then. Is it just a matter of "not wanting" to pay it now that your boyfriend is not your boyfriend. With that being said, why should the bank pay for your dating mistakes. They loaned the money to you in good faith. Were they wrong?
> 
> ...


Is having a good credit rating worth losing all your savings? No, I never paid for the loan, well, I paid the remainder of what he didn't but at least I could use the car once in a while. Yes, I suppose I will pay for my dating mistake. 

Yes, the bank did not ask for him as a joint debtor. And yes it is definitely a good lesson...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mukhang pera said:


> Sorry to appear pedestrian, elizabeth, but a bit more info please.
> 
> The loan is from a bank to you. Title to the car is in his name. Does the bank hold any security for the loan? Ordinarily, the bank would take the car as security, but if the loan is to you and title is with him, I don't see that being the case unless he was party to the loan agreement and pledged title to the car.
> 
> I know little about Quebec law, but one angle I am looking at is whether Quebec is a "seize or sue" jurisdiction. That won't matter if the bank does not have the car as security.


I will talk to a lawyer so I get more details...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

No I dont have physical possession of the car, just the loan! 
What do you mean by "Release the vehicule"? 
Thank you for your advice, I will take all of it into consideration. Will have the car registered in my name and sell it... and then pay the leftover balance .. :-( 
I will ask a lawyer about how to proceed...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Chica said:


> elizabeth, you should watch Judge Judy. Almost every time I watch the show your exact scenario is played out. Boyfriend/girlfriend buy a car and take out a loan and the relationship ends and the person with the car decides not to pay anymore (probably the one who had the bad credit to begin with) or trashes the car and the other person is left stuck making the payments. And one person always takes a hit on their credit rating.
> 
> You don't need any ties to him. If you've talked to your bank you'll find out they don't want your used car either. They just want their money. Either sell the car or have the bank take it back. And yes, there will be a difference between the amount the car sold for and the amount you still owe on the loan that you will have to pay.
> 
> ...


Is it illegal to have a car in his name and the loan in mine? I have never owned a car so Im learning a lot now...
About judge judy... Ill give a thought


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The way you explained it, the loan and car are two separate things. You owe for the loan and you have to pay it back, every dollar of it. If you don't the lender can come after you, sue, garnish your wages, attach your bank account and ruin your credit rating.

Or, you can declare bankruptcy. There is no third way. Unless there is something in Quebec law I don't know about.

Your ex boyfriend, on the other hand, owns a BMW free and clear.

That may not be what you want but that is what you have done.

There are 2 ways to handle this 1) Write the bank a check for $50,000 2) Go talk to a lawyer.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The way you explained it, the loan and car are two separate things. You owe for the loan and you have to pay it back, every dollar of it. If you don't the lender can come after you, sue, garnish your wages, attach your bank account and ruin your credit rating.
> 
> Or, you can declare bankruptcy. There is no third way. Unless there is something in Quebec law I don't know about.
> 
> ...


I am in the process of finding a lawyer (and hopefully will secure one by the end of this week) but I have more questions... 
From what I read online, bankruptcy won't erase a car loan ... Unless the car and loan are 2 separate things? 

Thanks again for your reply ...


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The way you tell it you don't have a car loan. You have a loan in your name and a car in your ex boyfriend's name. This doesn't make sense to me but that is your story.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

A 2013 X5 in Montreal is selling for ~$35k. If your loan is $50k, you're definitely losing ~$20k if you try to sell or trade in.

A solution could be for you to take back the car and keep it for yourself. Drive it around until the loan comes down enough for you to trade in for a more reasonable car and minimize your loss. 

It doesn't make sense to leave him the car while you assume the loan. It also does not make much sense to take a loss if you decide to stop paying the loan. The only other solution would be to transfer the loan to his name - but if he already got refused in the past, it is unlikely he'll get approved now. Put pressure on him to find a solution if he wants to keep the car. He can get someone to co-sign with him.

I also understand you don't want to pay for a car he's driving but I also wouldn't ruin my credit for it. You qualified for the loan so you should be able to afford the payments. If he has no solution for you, just take back the car and drive it.


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## jollybear (Jun 28, 2015)

If it`s a "M" series like you say....black book wholesale ranges from $45,600-$55,000. If it just has the "M Sport Package" it`s closer to the $35,000 range. Engine size makes a big difference in these cars as well. Could be a 35i,35D (diesel) or the 50i (adds approx $7000 to value)


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

elizabeth2 said:


> Is having a good credit rating worth losing all your savings? No, I never paid for the loan, well, I paid the remainder of what he didn't but at least I could use the car once in a while. Yes, I suppose I will pay for my dating mistake.
> 
> Yes, the bank did not ask for him as a joint debtor. And yes it is definitely a good lesson...


I have a common saying that I get to use way too much in life. "No good dead goes unpunished". That saying reminds me of the rewards that life actually gives back to me after I help out a friend. It is amazing how quickly others forget how nice you were once the help has been given and it becomes history. It keeps me from making those good intentioned mistakes.

If your ex had the integrity that I would like to see all debtors have we would not even be having this conversation, so good luck to you in whatever you decide to do.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The way you tell it you don't have a car loan. You have a loan in your name and a car in your ex boyfriend's name. This doesn't make sense to me but that is your story.


I don't think the car being registered to the ex prevents the bank from using it as collateral for the loan. Every few years there are stories on TV of used car salesman selling cars without a clear title. It does not seem to prevent registration in any way. The unlucky buyers find out a few months later when the bank comes after them to get the car back.

Besides, I doubt a bank would hand over 50K without some kind of collateral. In any case, it's easy to check in Quebec for 3$ with the VIN: https://www.rdprm.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pages/consultationvehicule.html Of course, the bank will probably tell you for free if you don't actually know what you signed.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

elizabeth2 said:


> No I dont have physical possession of the car, just the loan!
> What do you mean by "Release the vehicule"?
> Thank you for your advice, I will take all of it into consideration. Will have the car registered in my name and sell it... and then pay the leftover balance .. :-(
> I will ask a lawyer about how to proceed...


When a bank holds a vehicle as security, they must agree to release their security interest in the vehicle so the new buyer gets clear title.
If you sold the vehicle and the buyer was dumb enough to purchase without confirming the vehicle was paid, the bank could repossess thst vehicle from the new owner if you did not continue to pay the loan.
Normally what happens is the purchaser does a lien search ( as suggested by another poster) and she would make the cheque for the purchase payable to the bank and the owner of the car. The cheque would be taken to the bank, applied to the loan and the new owner would insist on a letter from the bank releasing their interest in the car.

I suggest you take a look at your loan documents, or ask the bank, to determine who is on the loan. And do a search on the vehicle. How long is the loan - for 3 years, 4 years? And how much time is left?
That is a start.

If your ex is paying most of the payment each month, how is he doing this? Giving you the money? Depositing it to an account?

In the long run if he continues to pay say 75% of the payment, it is possible it is cheaper for you to just pay the difference although I doubt it.
Quebec rules are often different than the rest of the country so you may find you have to verify any advice given.


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

Here is what will realistically happen if you don't get that vehicle in your possession and title in your name. He will continue to drive it and neglect it. You will stress about losing everything you have and never being able to get a credit card, mortgage, or place to rent. He will tell you he is making payments when he actually isn't. You will follow him around and look after the bills. When the bank comes to collect the vehicle, it will be missing. After a couple months, he will disappear with the insurance cheque he didn't tell you about. You will spend the next 5 years paying the bank for nothing or declaring bankruptcy and starting over in 2-5yrs.
Tell him you want to transfer the vehicle in your name to insure it in case something happens to it. Tell him you need to borrow vehicle for insurance inspection or appraisal. Whatever reason you can use to have it in your possession, take it to shop for safety check, tell him you are just getting a service maintenance done. Take paperwork to licence office and transfer it into your name. Next drive it to dealer out of province and take whatever you can get for it. Change your phone number. Call the loan company or meet with your bank and determine best method, perhaps longer to pay off loan or new revised loan or a line of credit, etc...


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

elizabeth2 said:


> So... I dont know much about car loans but what do you mean by securing the loan against the car? Yes, as you can see, I did this loan way too fast. I am currently looking for a lawyer and will see what can happen. The ex pays for insuring it..


 Do not waist time & money with lawyer go straight to small claims court. The lawyer can not change any facts of the story the ruling will be the same with or without the lawyer. If any phone message, email, witness can help prove loan was not a gift bring for evidence


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mortgage u/w said:


> A 2013 X5 in Montreal is selling for ~$35k. If your loan is $50k, you're definitely losing ~$20k if you try to sell or trade in.
> 
> A solution could be for you to take back the car and keep it for yourself. Drive it around until the loan comes down enough for you to trade in for a more reasonable car and minimize your loss.
> 
> ...


Thank you,
It is worth 35K even if it has not been kept up / well taken care of? Well, this week I will put the car in my name, and try to sell it... and move on from this ordeal ... Seems like its the best solution, as ruining my credit is not worth it (from what I read on this forum). Actually, I cant afford the car without going into my savings ...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Ok, will do that


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

jollybear said:


> If it`s a "M" series like you say....black book wholesale ranges from $45,600-$55,000. If it just has the "M Sport Package" it`s closer to the $35,000 range. Engine size makes a big difference in these cars as well. Could be a 35i,35D (diesel) or the 50i (adds approx $7000 to value)





Mortgage u/w said:


> A 2013 X5 in Montreal is selling for ~$35k. If your loan is $50k, you're definitely losing ~$20k if you try to sell or trade in.
> 
> A solution could be for you to take back the car and keep it for yourself. Drive it around until the loan comes down enough for you to trade in for a more reasonable car and minimize your loss.
> 
> ...





Rusty O'Toole said:


> The way you tell it you don't have a car loan. You have a loan in your name and a car in your ex boyfriend's name. This doesn't make sense to me but that is your story.





elizabeth2 said:


> I am in the process of finding a lawyer (and hopefully will secure one by the end of this week) but I have more questions...
> From what I read online, bankruptcy won't erase a car loan ... Unless the car and loan are 2 separate things?
> 
> Thanks again for your reply ...





OptsyEagle said:


> I have a common saying that I get to use way too much in life. "No good dead goes unpunished". That saying reminds me of the rewards that life actually gives back to me after I help out a friend. It is amazing how quickly others forget how nice you were once the help has been given and it becomes history. It keeps me from making those good intentioned mistakes.
> 
> If your ex had the integrity that I would like to see all debtors have we would not even be having this conversation, so good luck to you in whatever you decide to do.





off.by.10 said:


> I don't think the car being registered to the ex prevents the bank from using it as collateral for the loan. Every few years there are stories on TV of used car salesman selling cars without a clear title. It does not seem to prevent registration in any way. The unlucky buyers find out a few months later when the bank comes after them to get the car back.
> 
> Besides, I doubt a bank would hand over 50K without some kind of collateral. In any case, it's easy to check in Quebec for 3$ with the VIN: https://www.rdprm.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pages/consultationvehicule.html Of course, the bank will probably tell you for free if you don't actually know what you signed.


Hi, thank you so much. I found the VIN, and its actually under my name. So this means I am the owner? What is the difference between the VIN and registration? (yes I am very naive when it comes to cars...  )


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi, thank you so much for this information and link. Turns out the VIN is under my name. Does this mean I am the sole owner?


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

I just found that the VIN is under my name. This means it is my car?


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

If the car's in your name, you can get it back. If he doesn't give it back, you can call the cops and indicate it's been stolen.

If it comes back trashed you could probably get him charged for destruction of private property or something similar. The threat alone might be enough to have him hand it over cleanly.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

From my perspective, the facts remain rather fuzzy. We are now told that the VIN is in the OP’s name. I am not familiar with the niceties of the registration of motor vehicles in PQ. But for the moment I’ll take it that the car is registered to her.

It remains unclear about the details of the loan. It would seem likely that title is vested in the OP and that the bank holds a chattel mortgage on the vehicle. Otherwise, it would seem that the bank simply advanced the loan on the OP’s signature. I do not know if the bf has also signed anything as guarantor or indemnitor, so as to also be liable for the debt.

As I alluded to awhile back, I do not know if PQ is a “seize or sue” jurisdiction. In some provinces, if the holder of a chattel mortgage that is in default wants their money, they have a choice. They can either seize the chattel or sue for the debt. They can’t do both. If they take the car, then it must be accepted in complete satisfaction of the debt. 



nobleea said:


> If the car's in your name, you can get it back. If he doesn't give it back, you can call the cops and indicate it's been stolen.
> 
> If it comes back trashed you could probably get him charged for destruction of private property or something similar. The threat alone might be enough to have him hand it over cleanly.


I am not sure I would be too quick to seek to invoke the federal criminal law power. The OP could be the one who ends up being charged with mischief. I think it would be quite wrong to report the car as stolen without full disclosure to the cops.

Theft is generally defined as “a taking without colour of right”. Here, there was no “taking”. The OP handed the car over to the bf. It was intended to be his. Moreover, his acquisition of the car, and perhaps even its retention, can be said to be clothed with a “colour of right”. In sum, this is not a criminal matter. 

Again, I see no room for the operation of the Criminal Code “if the car comes back trashed”. At least not if it simply comes back having been subjected to some rough use. There could possibly be commission of mischief if the bf willfully causes more than trifling damage.

Read with s. 430(1)(a) of the Criminal Code, subsection (4) applies where a person willfully destroys or damages any property:

430 (1) Every one commits mischief who willfully

(a) destroys or damages property …
…
(4) Every one who commits mischief in relation to property, …

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; …

However, it has long been accepted that a person cannot be convicted of mischief for damaging his or her own property providing the damage was done in the absence of an intention to defraud:

429 (2) No person shall be convicted of an offence under sections 430 to 446 where he proves that he acted with legal justification or excuse and with colour of right.

(3) Where it is an offence to destroy or damage anything,
…
(b) the fact that a person has total interest in what is destroyed or damaged does not prevent him from being guilty of the offence if he caused the destruction or damage with intent to defraud.

As I said, reporting the bf as one who has committed a theft opens the door to a charge of public mischief under s. 140:

Public mischief

140 (1) Every one commits public mischief who, with intent to mislead, causes a peace officer to enter on or continue an investigation by

(a) making a false statement that accuses some other person of having committed an offence;

(b) doing anything intended to cause some other person to be suspected of having committed an offence that the other person has not committed, or to divert suspicion from himself;

(c) reporting that an offence has been committed when it has not been committed; or...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Mukhang pera said:


> From my perspective, the facts remain rather fuzzy. We are now told that the VIN is in the OP’s name. I am not familiar with the niceties of the registration of motor vehicles in PQ. But for the moment I’ll take it that the car is registered to her.
> 
> It remains unclear about the details of the loan. It would seem likely that title is vested in the OP and that the bank holds a chattel mortgage on the vehicle. Otherwise, it would seem that the bank simply advanced the loan on the OP’s signature. I do not know if the bf has also signed anything as guarantor or indemnitor, so as to also be liable for the debt.
> 
> ...


Hi, thank you for your detailed message. 
So far, this is what I have come to understand.
VIN is in my name, and it refers to the bank who gave me the loan. 
I called the bank, and they said I have a sales contract for the loan...
And, my ex says the car is registered under his name, and its his plates on the car (I for one, have never gone to register the car myself).

In conclusion, I think I can go to small claims court to get the leftover payments, and also sell the car at a loss... Bankruptcy would "ruin" me for a couple of years. 

This week I will make an action plan as to how to proceed. I also need to get the car verified on its worth ...


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

I see, so in order to sell a car, the loan needs to be cleared. 
I am the sole person on the loan, and I believe it will go for another 5 years.
The ex sends me bank transfers, 
I will verify for Quebec rules...
Thank you


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

nobleea said:


> If the car's in your name, you can get it back. If he doesn't give it back, you can call the cops and indicate it's been stolen.
> 
> If it comes back trashed you could probably get him charged for destruction of private property or something similar. The threat alone might be enough to have him hand it over cleanly.





twa2w said:


> When a bank holds a vehicle as security, they must agree to release their security interest in the vehicle so the new buyer gets clear title.
> If you sold the vehicle and the buyer was dumb enough to purchase without confirming the vehicle was paid, the bank could repossess thst vehicle from the new owner if you did not continue to pay the loan.
> Normally what happens is the purchaser does a lien search ( as suggested by another poster) and she would make the cheque for the purchase payable to the bank and the owner of the car. The cheque would be taken to the bank, applied to the loan and the new owner would insist on a letter from the bank releasing their interest in the car.
> 
> ...


I see, so in order to sell a car, the loan needs to be cleared. 
I am the sole person on the loan, and I believe it will go for another 5 years.
The ex sends me bank transfers, 
I will verify for Quebec rules...
Thank you


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

nobleea said:


> If the car's in your name, you can get it back. If he doesn't give it back, you can call the cops and indicate it's been stolen.
> 
> If it comes back trashed you could probably get him charged for destruction of private property or something similar. The threat alone might be enough to have him hand it over cleanly.





off.by.10 said:


> I don't think the car being registered to the ex prevents the bank from using it as collateral for the loan. Every few years there are stories on TV of used car salesman selling cars without a clear title. It does not seem to prevent registration in any way. The unlucky buyers find out a few months later when the bank comes after them to get the car back.
> 
> Besides, I doubt a bank would hand over 50K without some kind of collateral. In any case, it's easy to check in Quebec for 3$ with the VIN: https://www.rdprm.gouv.qc.ca/fr/pages/consultationvehicule.html Of course, the bank will probably tell you for free if you don't actually know what you signed.


The VIN is under my name, but registration under his... Is this normal?


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Elizabeth, the VIN is just the identification of the car. Usually called a serial number. The VIN is not under anyones name. Can you tell us who told you it is under your name and what they meant.

The registration of the car is what is usually called the ownership. It is a document that shows the make, model, and VIN of the car and who the registered owner of the car is. This would be registered with the Quebec goverment department responsible for motor vehicles and they issue licence plates to the owner to put on the car and drive it.

It sounds like your ex owns the car. If you have a conditional sales contract, this is different than a regular bank loan with a chattel mortgage over the car.

Perhaps mukhang can coment on Quebec law in this instance. Or you can question your lawyer. I would ask your bank for a copy of the contract if you do not have it. Take it to your lawyet. It may mean the bank must seize or sue but I cannot comment as not familiar with Quebec law in regards to consumer credit.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Elizabeth, you may be confused, because something does not add up.

Although you never went to the SAAQ to register the car, it was most likely registered with the dealer when you signed for the car. Did you get a transit sticker or was the car plated already when you picked it up? If it had the plate, that would mean the dealer registered the car for you. If that's the case, it would also mean that the car registration is already in your name. The only way you could have the car in your ex's name is if you took a personal loan rather than a car loan - the personal loan won't have a collateral on the car allowing anyone else to register the plates. If its a car loan with collateral, then the dealer could not have released the car without proper registration and insurance.

Just check the insurance and registration papers - who's name do you see?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

twa2w said:


> Elizabeth, the VIN is just the identification of the car. Usually called a serial number. The VIN is not under anyones name. Can you tell us who told you it is under your name and what they meant.
> 
> The registration of the car is what is usually called the ownership. It is a document that shows the make, model, and VIN of the car and who the registered owner of the car is. This would be registered with the Quebec goverment department responsible for motor vehicles and they issue licence plates to the owner to put on the car and drive it.
> 
> ...


I think twa2w's comments are on point.

I am not schooled in Quebec law and time does not permit me to do proper research. I _do_ think Mme Elizabeth should get a bit of advice from a Quebec lawyer.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> The VIN is under my name, but registration under his... Is this normal?


I'm not sure if it's the same in QC, but in ON a registration has two parts... the vehicle portion and the plate portion. One shows who owns the car, and the other usually who is driving it. It is possible to have a different name on each part. I think that might be the case of a leased vehicle; but I don't know how your situation occurred.

As said here before... talk to a lawyer before doing anything.


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## Nerd Investor (Nov 3, 2015)

Userkare said:


> I'm not sure if it's the same in QC, but in ON a registration has two parts... the vehicle portion and the plate portion. One shows who owns the car, and the other usually who is driving it. It is possible to have a different name on each part. I think that might be the case of a leased vehicle; but I don't know how your situation occurred.
> 
> As said here before... talk to a lawyer before doing anything.


Was thinking something similar after reading through. Maybe the car is registered to her but the plates are his (if it works that way in Quebec).


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Have an appointment on thursday!


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

nobleea said:


> If the car's in your name, you can get it back. If he doesn't give it back, you can call the cops and indicate it's been stolen.
> 
> If it comes back trashed you could probably get him charged for destruction of private property or something similar. The threat alone might be enough to have him hand it over cleanly.





Mortgage u/w said:


> Elizabeth, you may be confused, because something does not add up.
> 
> Although you never went to the SAAQ to register the car, it was most likely registered with the dealer when you signed for the car. Did you get a transit sticker or was the car plated already when you picked it up? If it had the plate, that would mean the dealer registered the car for you. If that's the case, it would also mean that the car registration is already in your name. The only way you could have the car in your ex's name is if you took a personal loan rather than a car loan - the personal loan won't have a collateral on the car allowing anyone else to register the plates. If its a car loan with collateral, then the dealer could not have released the car without proper registration and insurance.
> 
> Just check the insurance and registration papers - who's name do you see?


The insurance papers are under his name, and for sure the registration is in his name as I never did anything to register the car.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Nerd Investor said:


> Was thinking something similar after reading through. Maybe the car is registered to her but the plates are his (if it works that way in Quebec).


I don't think so. I've never heard of anything like that anyway. When you transfer registration after a sale, the SAAQ gives the new owner new plates and that's that.



elizabeth2 said:


> The insurance papers are under his name, and for sure the registration is in his name as I never did anything to register the car.


As I recall, it's just a signature on a plain piece of paper at the dealership, so don't assume you did not do it. It's easy to loose track of it in all the other paperwork. Unless you saw the registration card (the blue-green one you get with the yearly bill which states car model, plate number, VIN, etc) with his name on it, it could still be that the car is actually yours. You may be able to ask the SAAQ if you have a vehicle registered to your name but I'm not certain. The police can certainly find out easily but it is not public information as far as I know. They might check if you ask nicely (ie. "my ex is driving around a car which might be mine and I will need help retrieving it if so") but I really don't know what their policy is on that kind of thing.

Anyway, unless the car is actually registered to you, you'll definitely need some legal advice. I suspect you can ultimately force him to hand back the car through the bank but I'm not certain about the specifics (ie. there could be negative consequences for you as well). But do *not* tell him you intend to do this. If he "owns" the car (minus the loan), the nicest way would probably be to get him to agree to sell it to pay back as much of the loan as possible and for you to eat the loss.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> The insurance papers are under his name, and for sure the registration is in his name as I never did anything to register the car.


Don't assume - check!!
You didn't need to do anything to register the car - it could have been registered by the dealer and you didn't notice with all the papers you signed.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

I just want to say that the BMW X5 is the biggest douchemobile and anyone who would buy that car is a giant douche. (and anyone who would finance it is stupid AND a douche). You did the right thing by dumping him. :applause:

That's all from me.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Earl said:


> the BMW X5 is the biggest douchemobile


It's just an overpriced SUV. I wouldn't call it a douchemobile compared to a Camero or a Z4.



> You did the right thing by dumping him


This I would agree with.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Making harsh judgements about a person's character simply due to a make/model car they drive speaks volumes about the critic rather than the car owner. 

For disclosure I own a Z4M (E86) but also have a Hyundai dd.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

Well cars like the Z4 and Camaro are fun to drive sports cars so they're not douchemobiles. But the X5 has literally no redeeming qualities. It's worse off road than a much cheaper jeep, it's not that roomy for its size, despite its big engine it's not that fast due to its massive weight, and it's not known for reliability. There is no reason to buy that car except for image, which says somethign about the people who drive them.


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

If you do not understand completely the process of a vehicle title search, driver abstract, or licensing department, I suggest you contact a lawyer asap and have them search and prepare a file of documents for you. Your ex only has his interest in mind and will continue to scam you and your credit for as long as possible.


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

Earl said:


> Well cars like the Z4 and Camaro are fun to drive sports cars so they're not douchemobiles. But the X5 has literally no redeeming qualities. It's worse off road than a much cheaper jeep, it's not that roomy for its size, despite its big engine it's not that fast due to its massive weight, and it's not known for reliability. There is no reason to buy that car except for image, which says somethign about the people who drive them.


You just posted 2 large comments stating any owner of a BMW X5 is a douche and stupid, how it lacks quality, is the worse, overpriced, slow vehicle. Lastly no reason to buy except for image. So, perhaps the owner or buyer is not a douche or stupid or concerned about technical qualities, but rather just want a good looking vehicle. 
Obviously the OP was not the only person involved in the selection of this vehicle. If you care to provide some helpful input on how the OP can resolve their current financial dilemma I'm sure they would appreciate it more than the poor assumption of their character.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

nobleea said:


> If the car's in your name, you can get it back. If he doesn't give it back, you can call the cops and indicate it's been stolen.
> 
> If it comes back trashed you could probably get him charged for destruction of private property or something similar. The threat alone might be enough to have him hand it over cleanly.





coptzr said:


> If you do not understand completely the process of a vehicle title search, driver abstract, or licensing department, I suggest you contact a lawyer asap and have them search and prepare a file of documents for you. Your ex only has his interest in mind and will continue to scam you and your credit for as long as possible.


My appointment was rescheduled for this evening, so hopefully I will have a better idea of how to clear this car loan. In the end, I think it will either have to come from my savings


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

Earl said:


> Well cars like the Z4 and Camaro are fun to drive sports cars so they're not douchemobiles. But the X5 has literally no redeeming qualities. It's worse off road than a much cheaper jeep, it's not that roomy for its size, despite its big engine it's not that fast due to its massive weight, and it's not known for reliability. There is no reason to buy that car except for image, which says somethign about the people who drive them.


you remind me of a friend I know, he was saying the same thing about bmws, than he got a well paying job and guess what car he bought right after ? hahaha


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## Lost in Space 2 (Jun 28, 2016)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The way you explained it, the loan and car are two separate things. You owe for the loan and you have to pay it back, every dollar of it. If you don't the lender can come after you, sue, garnish your wages, attach your bank account and ruin your credit rating.
> 
> Or, you can declare bankruptcy. There is no third way. Unless there is something in Quebec law I don't know about.
> 
> .


She can file a  consumer proposal, this would avoid bankrupcy the damage to her credit rating. It will have an effect but not as bad. 

As others have mentioned she needs to sort out the ownership.

Now if the car is in her name she needs to immediately take it back as there is nothing to prevent the boyfriend from damaging the car. It won't affect his insurance as long as he doesn't make a claim.

@elizabeth2 don't let anyone dump on you for making a dumb mistake, we've all been there and done that instead use it as a very expensive learning lesson. Also I would really really encourage you to read Doug Hoyes new book Straight Talk on Money, along with Millionaire Teacher. those two books will set you for life!


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Lost in Space 2 said:


> She can file a  consumer proposal, this would avoid bankrupcy the damage to her credit rating. It will have an effect but not as bad.


On the contrary! A consumer proposal is just as bad as a bankruptcy. In my opinion, its actually worse.

A consumer proposal will remain active on your credit bureau until it is paid off. During this period, no creditor will lend you money. Worse yet, all the creditors your trustee struck a deal with will still lose money so they will give you an R9 rating (identical as if you never paid them under a bankruptcy). So you struggle to make payments for x amount of years just to know that your creditors took the money and ruined your credit rating none-the-less.

Bankruptcy, on the other hand, will clear all your debts (without making payment arrangements). You still get an R9 rating from the creditors but the critical difference is that you get discharged from the BK within 1 year. After which, all lenders are willing to provide you with credit again.

A majority of consumer proposals turn into bankruptcy because most are unable to maintain their initial obligations.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Here is an update, of which the issue is not fully resolved. The ex got into a car accident; and the insurance paid some of it off. However I still owe 13 thousand dollars of which my ex confirmed to me is not paying. Now what if I dont pay this amount? And keep paying everything else off perfectly? Will I seriously be ruined for a long time (in terms of credit rating)? The car loan is with a different banking institution than where I do my main banking... So they wont be able to go after my assets. So I wont be able to buy a house for the next few years; I would rather save the 13K than to burn it .. :-( What is recommended?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mortgage u/w said:


> On the contrary! A consumer proposal is just as bad as a bankruptcy. In my opinion, its actually worse.
> 
> A consumer proposal will remain active on your credit bureau until it is paid off. During this period, no creditor will lend you money. Worse yet, all the creditors your trustee struck a deal with will still lose money so they will give you an R9 rating (identical as if you never paid them under a bankruptcy). So you struggle to make payments for x amount of years just to know that your creditors took the money and ruined your credit rating none-the-less.
> 
> ...


If a person has an income and can afford consumer proposal payments, the trustee won't allow a filing of bankruptcy.

A consumer proposal and bankruptcies remain on a credit record long after they are paid off.

A bankrupt must also make payments based on their income and must provide the trustee with a statement of income and spending every month.

Any inheritance or tax return would belong to the bankruptcy. In a consumer proposal they belong to the person filing.

They are totally different and it would be necessary to consult with a bankruptcy trustee in any event.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

elizabeth2 said:


> Here is an update, of which the issue is not fully resolved. The ex got into a car accident; and the insurance paid some of it off. However I still owe 13 thousand dollars of which my ex confirmed to me is not paying. Now what if I dont pay this amount? And keep paying everything else off perfectly? Will I seriously be ruined for a long time (in terms of credit rating)? The car loan is with a different banking institution than where I do my main banking... So they wont be able to go after my assets. So I wont be able to buy a house for the next few years; I would rather save the 13K than to burn it .. :-( What is recommended?


You would default on the loan and it would affect your credit rating for 6 years. The lender could also obtain a judgement against you.

You would be best to contact the lender and work out a payment schedule with them. Sell the car.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

There is no more car.. It was totaled in the accident (original loan was 55K)... So now I am just burning money in the air... I dont have enough debt (apart a student loan) to warrant bankruptcy but could be an option I suppose ...


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

elizabeth2 said:


> Here is an update, of which the issue is not fully resolved. The ex got into a car accident; and the insurance paid some of it off. However I still owe 13 thousand dollars of which my ex confirmed to me is not paying. Now what if I dont pay this amount?


You could have avoided this situation by purchasing gap insurance or it's equivalent. I had a family member burnt with this just a few years ago - expensive car, rapid depreciation, no down payment, etc. Buyer beware as it can be a waste of money depending on the costs, individual situation, etc. On a new car it's a no brainer to purchase some sort of waiver of depreciation, replacement cost endorsement, etc. but a used car will require a little more number crunching.

If you can afford it, pay off the balance and be more careful next time! Could be a lot worse.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> There is no more car.


I think the way forward is to keep paying the loan. Bankruptcy over $13K is likely not worth it -- probably the lawyers bill will cost that. I *would* recommend going after the deadbeat in small claims court, though. I suspect you would get a judgement and any amount of money from the ex would help. It is far better for him to have the black mark on his credit than you. I wish you the best of luck.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

gardner said:


> I *would* recommend going after the deadbeat in small claims court, though. I suspect you would get a judgement and any amount of money from the ex would help.


On what basis? I don't think he broke any law. She gave him a car and he crashed it. Sad but predictable.

Now it's time to pay and *learn from your mistake*. It's not too bad a price to pay if it will teach you not to blindly trust people. Better that now than 10 times as much 20 years from now when you hear about this "amazing investment opportunity" from a "friend" and decide to put your retirement money in it.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

off.by.10 said:


> On what basis? I don't think he broke any law. She gave him a car and he crashed it. Sad but predictable.


No one says he broke the law, but he and the complainant bought a car together, which he proceeded to neglect to pay his share of. If the loan was in one name and the registration in the other a court could well agree that the underlying intent was joint ownership and that the respondent should have some remaining liability in the matter. It's going to be a he-said she-said story, but the respondent probably won't even show.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

elizabeth2 said:


> Here is an update, of which the issue is not fully resolved. The ex got into a car accident; and the insurance paid some of it off. However I still owe 13 thousand dollars of which my ex confirmed to me is not paying. Now what if I dont pay this amount? And keep paying everything else off perfectly? Will I seriously be ruined for a long time (in terms of credit rating)? The car loan is with a different banking institution than where I do my main banking... So they wont be able to go after my assets. So I wont be able to buy a house for the next few years; I would rather save the 13K than to burn it .. :-( What is recommended?


No lender is going to write off a loan if there is any chance of collecting. They are not going to let go of this. They may dun you for the money, garnish your bank account or pay check, or send it to a collection agency. They are NOT going to laugh it off and give you $13,000 for free. I hope this is clear.

There may be some way to collect from your boyfriend or stick him with the debt. You will need to talk to a lawyer. How many times have I said that? Too bad you don't want to do it. Your alternative is to pay back the $13,000. There are slimy ways to dodge payments, or you could declare bankruptcy but at the cost of ruining your credit rating.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

You seem to have the delusion that you can borrow money from a bank and if you don't feel like paying it back, you don't have to. This is not the way the banking business works. I would have thought anyone over the age of 10 would know that.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

You do need to come to grips with the fact that YOU made this mistake, not the bank. I imagine the bank was very clear about their opinion of your ex boyfriend, right up front, but was willing to let you vouch for him, which you did.

Are you going to make someone else pay every time you make a mistake in life?

Anyway, as Rusty has said, in order to truly walk away from this you will need to do some form of formal bankruptcy or consumer proposal. Simply not paying will make it worse. If you thought your ex boyfriend was the worse scumbag alive it is only because you have not met a collection agent yet. You should try to avoid that.

Anyway, I do feel for you. Guys like your ex can make a pretty good life taking advantage of other people's emotions and in my perfect world they would be treated like any other criminal or con man...but I doubt I will ever see that world. Our jails cold not hold the number of women and men that conduct themselves this way. Since you are now aware of them and if you can succeed in avoiding them in the future, $13,000 will be a small price to pay. I mean, at least you didn't marry him. Can you imagine the price you would have paid for that mistake.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I would have thought anyone over the age of 10 would know that.


You're just showing your age. You see, there's this new thing called entitlement... she needs that house more than the bank needs the money so no need to pay it back. All clear?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I don't think this is an age thing or entitlement expectation. I suspect everyone of us would initially believe that they should not be responsible for a loan that another person wanted and promised to pay back. I know I would think long and hard about the ramifications of defaulting on this one. At the end of the day, I believe I would lean towards making good on the loan but that is a lot easier to say on an anonymous forum then it is to write a cheque for $13,000. Perhaps some of us would move towards the right decision quicker, but I suspect a large number of us reading this thread would decide on default, and the ones leaning towards that would come from all ages, genders and backgrounds. 

This is a crappie deal, but it is her shoe that has stepped in it and her decision to make. I am sure I could come up with reasons to justify going either way, so I think I will stop judging and leave it in her hands.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

OptsyEagle said:


> I don't think this is an age thing or entitlement expectation.


The age thing was supposed to be joke  Sorry if it wasn't obvious enough.

But I think there's definitely entitlement involved. There's the ex for getting a car he could not pay for and her for thinking she should be able to just walk from the loan the signed for just because it's not fair or something.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

elizabeth2 said:


> Here is an update, of which the issue is not fully resolved. The ex got into a car accident; and the insurance paid some of it off. However I still owe 13 thousand dollars of which my ex confirmed to me is not paying. Now what if I dont pay this amount? And keep paying everything else off perfectly? Will I seriously be ruined for a long time (in terms of credit rating)? The car loan is with a different banking institution than where I do my main banking... So they wont be able to go after my assets. So I wont be able to buy a house for the next few years; I would rather save the 13K than to burn it .. :-( What is recommended?


If he totaled the car and won't pay for the loss, you're better off without him.

The fact that there is no car, and HE destroyed it makes it pretty clear who's responsible for the loss.
Though if he won't take responsibility small claims court is likely the best option.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Well, in the end, it was a learning experience.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

off.by.10 said:


> The age thing was supposed to be joke  Sorry if it wasn't obvious enough.
> 
> But I think there's definitely entitlement involved. There's the ex for getting a car he could not pay for and her for thinking she should be able to just walk from the loan the signed for just because it's not fair or something.


Hmmm I guess all the trolls come out on all forums at one point or another. No, I am not entitled whatsoever... Anyway no need to defend myself here (!) The reason I am on the forum is to look at ALL possibilities and make an informed decision using other peoples experience and advice. Just because someone asks - doesn't mean they are going through with it. Its my first car, my first car loan, and yes I didn't make the best decision at all, and from this forum I was able to come to terms to pay off this loan in responsible way. Thanks to those who gave non judgement but concrete answers. 

And yes, I am going to small claims court ... 

Thanks


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Who said I didn't want to?


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> You seem to have the delusion that you can borrow money from a bank and if you don't feel like paying it back, you don't have to. This is not the way the banking business works. I would have thought anyone over the age of 10 would know that.


Yes Rusty O'Toole. That is exactly it... You know me so well from this forum!!


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Synergy said:


> You could have avoided this situation by purchasing gap insurance or it's equivalent. I had a family member burnt with this just a few years ago - expensive car, rapid depreciation, no down payment, etc. Buyer beware as it can be a waste of money depending on the costs, individual situation, etc. On a new car it's a no brainer to purchase some sort of waiver of depreciation, replacement cost endorsement, etc. but a used car will require a little more number crunching.
> 
> If you can afford it, pay off the balance and be more careful next time! Could be a lot worse.


There was replacement insurance, but I am not replacing this car at all! I don't want or need a 50K car in my life. My dead beat ex had a genius idea (sarcasm) of me going to get a 50K car, getting the insurance cheque and then returning this car. This is insurance fraud is it not!? Anyway, I am paying the debt, was a loss and lesson learned thats for sure.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> There was replacement insurance


It might be worth discussing the situation with the insurer and a lawyer in this case. If you or ex paid extra premiums to cover the gap in insurance, it should be possible to claim against that to cover the value gap even if the car isn't being replaced. It will depend on the fine print in the policy, but it would be worth looking into.


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## elizabeth2 (Oct 14, 2017)

gardner said:


> It might be worth discussing the situation with the insurer and a lawyer in this case. If you or ex paid extra premiums to cover the gap in insurance, it should be possible to claim against that to cover the value gap even if the car isn't being replaced. It will depend on the fine print in the policy, but it would be worth looking into.


I have spoken with the insurer and the only way to cover the gap is purchasing a new vehicle..


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

elizabeth2 said:


> There was replacement insurance, but I am not replacing this car at all! I don't want or need a 50K car in my life. My dead beat ex had a genius idea (sarcasm) of me going to get a 50K car, getting the insurance cheque and then returning this car. This is insurance fraud is it not!? Anyway, I am paying the debt, was a loss and lesson learned thats for sure.


If you had waiver of depreciation, or a replacement new car guarantee endorsement the insurer would pay off the loan and right you a big fat cheque for the balance. You could then buy yourself a reasonably priced new car. The settlement for waiver of depreciation vs replacement cost is a little different. I'm pretty sure you do not have to purchase a brand new 50k car or commit fraud:wink:

Your agent or broker needs to give their head a shake if that's what they told you.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

elizabeth2 said:


> Hmmm I guess all the trolls come out on all forums at one point or another. No, I am not entitled whatsoever... Anyway no need to defend myself here (!) The reason I am on the forum is to look at ALL possibilities and make an informed decision using other peoples experience and advice. Just because someone asks - doesn't mean they are going through with it.


You need to read up on what trolling is. Sorry if I got it wrong but you did come across as somewhat entitled. You were told from the start that you can't just weasel out of the loan yet you kept coming back with variations on the "what if I don't pay it back" theme. eg.:


elizabeth2 said:


> Now what if I dont pay this amount? And keep paying everything else off perfectly? Will I seriously be ruined for a long time (in terms of credit rating)? The car loan is with a different banking institution than where I do my main banking... So they wont be able to go after my assets. So I wont be able to buy a house for the next few years; I would rather save the 13K than to burn it .. :-( What is recommended?


Which happens to be where my house comment came from. It seemed pointless to keep going in circles with the same answers, hence the joke I made. And by the way, it really does not help when you write "I don't need to defend myself" *and* then proceed to defend yourself. Pick one or the other.

I'm glad you finally seem to have gotten a grip on the reality of the situation. I wish you the best of luck settling all this and moving on from both the financial and emotional consequences.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I believe the OP means the dealership would blend the old debt into a loan for a new car.

Otherwise, the difference between the insurance payout and the loan balance is due now.


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## KevinWaterloo (Mar 5, 2015)

elizabeth2 said:


> There was replacement insurance, but I am not replacing this car at all! I don't want or need a 50K car in my life. My dead beat ex had a genius idea (sarcasm) of me going to get a 50K car, getting the insurance cheque and then returning this car. This is insurance fraud is it not!? Anyway, I am paying the debt, was a loss and lesson learned thats for sure.


If you have the option to claim the car loss on insurance you really should take it. You (or your ex) were paying for insurance for exactly that reason. The agreement you signed with the insurance company was essentially that they would cover the cost of a replacement vehicle if it was damaged or destroyed in an accident, and in exchange you (or your ex) would pay for the insurance premiums. The fact that you don't have a need for a car now is really irrelevant.

Buying a new car and trying to return it would clearly not be honest and it may be considered fraud since ereturning the car would "undo" the sale. However buying a new or used car, claiming the insurance, and then selling it privately (or back to a dealer) in a separate transaction would be perfectly fine. You would almost certainly have to sell the vehicle at a lower price than what you bought it for and pay the taxes on the vehicle, but you would still walk away with most of the value of the vehicle in cash. I can't see why the insurance company would have a problem with that at all. 

The biggest issue might be that the vehicle write-off will increase your car insurance rates significantly, but that would still be a small fraction of the amount of cash you would receive back.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

When a vehicle is written off it belongs to the insurance company.


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## coptzr (Jan 18, 2013)

Well I wasn't too far off. Car is gone and you are stuck with the bill. Pay it off and move on. The insurance is NOT going to drop off a replacement vehicle for free that you can sell and make money. It will cost you thousands in deductible, taxes, admin, fees, and replacement difference. Do NOT listen to the deadbeat ex boyfriend any more, run away as fast as you can and block his number, change your phone number and move to a different address. Call lender, make payment plan with automatic withdrawl. If that is not possible, call a new lender to do this and pay off original. You trying to run away from this debt is cowardly and will take years to make good if you do.


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## KevinWaterloo (Mar 5, 2015)

The insurance company will do exactly what the contract states. If the policy included vehicle replacement they will definitely pay to replace the vehicle. The fact that the OP doesn't want to keep the vehicle in the long term is completely irrelevant. This is one of the main reasons why you buy insurance in the first place (the other being liability). Clearly the value of the replacement vehicle will be much, much larger than the deductible and any fees.


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