# $700 to replace furnace draft induce motor!?



## hedgehog885 (Dec 13, 2014)

Hello,

Today I found out my furnace stopped working after walking into a unusually cold house. After inspecting the furnace I identified the "draft induce motor" was not spinning but just buzzing loudly when its turned on. As I couldn't live in a cold house for the weekend(worse time also as the temperatures were below zero) I called in a HVAC technician to have a look at it. He final price to replacement the part...$700!!! Seriously, or is that what it actually is? He blames it was a higher model with warranty for 1 year so for that it was priced with labour, delivery, and travel time. Prior to calling the technician I researched online to find that those motors go for 250-300 plus shipping locally. The work doesn't look too complicated as its just basically a swap and connecting a couple pipes and wires. So I would like to ask if anyone have any experience with this, is $700 worth the replacement in your opinion?

Thank you!


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

hedgehog885 said:


> So I would like to ask if anyone have any experience with this, is $700 worth the replacement in your opinion?
> 
> Thank you!


Since you're asking if it's worth it, to me it sure as heck would be, I wouldn't want to be without heat in this cold.

If you're asking if it's worth installing yourself, search youtube on how to replace "draft induce motor" on furnace. I'm sure you'll find some helpful DIY videos.


----------



## hedgehog885 (Dec 13, 2014)

I guess what I'm really asking is if the price is worth the installation.


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

hedgehog885 said:


> I guess what I'm really asking is if the price is worth the installation.


How old is the unit? And what brand/model? I'm not familiar with what good brands are, but I do know a lot of brands of furnaces are made all by one company and slapped with different brand names (same for appliances). So maybe researching the unit you have will help, especially asking on HVAC forums or DIY forums. This is how I determine if an appliance is worth fixing (or buying).


----------



## hedgehog885 (Dec 13, 2014)

Appreciate your response.

Already done before posting here. Don't know any canadian hvac forums so I thought I test my luck in hopes someone may have experience what I went through. Just $700 seem pretty steep, but then again I'm not expert hence why I'm here to ask.


----------



## KLR650 (Sep 12, 2010)

You left out some info...does 700 include tax? Does it include both service visits? 

Even though it appears like a simple install, do you realize that if done improperly carbon monoxide could enter your home? $700 doesnt sound unreasonable at all.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

KLR650 said:


> You left out some info...does 700 include tax? Does it include both service visits? Even though it appears like a simple install, do you realize that if done improperly carbon monoxide could enter your home? $700 doesnt sound unreasonable at all.


++^
I think a key consideration in these instances - make sure that you use a reputable company who will stand behind their work and parts and be there if you have any future problems. They may not be the 'cheapest', but I wouldn't have any regrets having paid $700 for an emergency fix involving parts that cost $350.


----------



## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

2 trips to the house, parts, labour, taxes. 
Any repair like that will be $700. 

Might just be the starting capacitor that failed (if it's cap start)- but that might not be a replaceable part on your motor - dunno. The cap on my sump pump motor failed and it was a few dollars, but I replaced the whole pump due to age and importance.


----------



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ++^
> I think a key consideration in these instances - make sure that you use a reputable company who will stand behind their work and parts and be there if you have any future problems. They may not be the 'cheapest', but I wouldn't have any regrets having paid $700 for an emergency fix involving parts that cost $350.


+1


----------



## hedgehog885 (Dec 13, 2014)

KLR650 said:


> You left out some info...does 700 include tax? Does it include both service visits?
> 
> Even though it appears like a simple install, do you realize that if done improperly carbon monoxide could enter your home? $700 doesnt sound unreasonable at all.


Very true points! I didn't even consider these risk but was too blinded by the money and savings. The evil of money sometimes. Thank you!

And thank you to those of the following posts.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hedgehog885 said:


> Very true points! I didn't even consider these risk but was too blinded by the money and savings. The evil of money sometimes. Thank you!
> 
> And thank you to those of the following posts.


I've some some modifications to my 20+ year gas furnace which is an 80 efficient Miller-Nordyne, very reliable for the last 17 years, except for a ignitor which failed a couple of winters ago . I was unprepared for that and I had to call in an emergency HVAC tech to replace a $34 part. That that was costly for me.
Last year I ordered a spare ignitor from a US distributor of parts for my furnace.

My furnace also has an inducer draft motor with the attached squirrel cage that provides the venting function to the chimney on the roof, but it has bronze bearings and as long as you oil them each heating season it is fine. 
I checked last fall on the price and availabilty and it is $120 US + shipping or about $180 shipped directly to my door.


if I need to replace it. (easy DIY) I can order it and replace it. I haven't ordered it as a spare yet because as long as the bearings are oiled on it t works fine, so I still pondering whether to order it this year as a spare
part, just in case. 

As far as whether $700 is a reasonable repair, the way I see it, with labour and part costs, if the inducer
motor is a $150 item, the repairman will double the cost of his part, plus the callout, so it may end
up as a $500 repair by the time he is done.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> 2 trips to the house, parts, labour, taxes.
> Any repair like that will be $700.
> 
> Might just be the starting capacitor that failed (if it's cap start)- but that might not be a replaceable part on your motor - dunno. The cap on my sump pump motor failed and it was a few dollars, but I replaced the whole pump due to age and importance.


Based on my furnace, only the fan motor is a* split phase cap start*, but the inducer motor is just a regular 115vac minature fractional horsepower motor with a squirrel cage fan attached to it as one unit. I didn't see any capacitor attached to the inducer motor, but there could be one on the control board... I don't know..somehow I doubt it.


----------



## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

I have a draft inducer motor (Tjernlund power ventor) on my furnace and had to replace the squirrel cage on the motor this past january. It was making weird noises and had started to vibrate excessively. I noticed that some of the individual blades were just about to brak off from the round rim of the cage. That was due to corrosion after 19 years of running. I was able to buy a new cage assembly locally for my motor for $ 100.- I just about sh*t. 
I pull the motor every 3 years or so to clean the cage of combustion deposits and had noticed the weakened joints then, but was in no panic to replace it at that time.
BTW, my motor uses a start capacitor and the OP's non start condition was very likely due to a bad capacitor if his motor has one. $ 700.- for a new motor inclusive of installation seems kind of high but then again if it's cold out and you need heat, you can't go order things on line and wait for a week or more. That's why I bought my cage locally (in stock) rather than order it cheaper on line.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sasquatch said:


> I have a draft inducer motor (Tjernlund power ventor) on my furnace and had to replace the squirrel cage on the motor this past january. It was making weird noises and had started to vibrate excessively. I noticed that some of the individual blades were just about to brak off from the round rim of the cage. That was due to corrosion after 19 years of running. I was able to buy a new cage assembly locally for my motor for $ 100.


Yes, I hear you. I'm seriously thinking of ordering a spare inducer motor/fan assembly this year. Cheap insurance even if I never use it.


----------



## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

carverman said:


> Yes, I hear you. I'm seriously thinking of ordering a spare inducer motor/fan assembly this year. Cheap insurance even if I never use it.


I have to keep restraining myself from accumulating too many spares for all the stuff I have. If I would remove all restraints, my garage would consist of floor to bottom shelves with nothing but spares from furnace to snowblower to lawnmower to computers to......... etc. etc............. please hold me back !!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sasquatch said:


> I have to keep restraining myself from accumulating too many spares for all the stuff I have. If I would remove all restraints, my garage would consist of floor to bottom shelves with nothing but spares from furnace to snowblower to lawnmower to computers to......... etc. etc............. please hold me back !!


The way I see it is..these things only fail when you need them the most..middle of the winter or on a holiday weekend (like Christmas -New Years) when you can't
find a emergency repairman or parts for these things...and you have to rely on space heaters to keep yourself and the pipes from freezing. Sure you can open
the taps and let the water run and put up with a larger water bill..but unless you have a couple electric space heaters, the house will cool down very quickly
at -20C. 

So there are spares and there are *essential spares*. On my 20 yrs old gas furnace, the two things that could fail is the ignitor and the draft inducer motor.
I had to get the ignitor replaced in January a couple winters ago on an emergency basis..cost me over $230 for a $30 part that I could have changed myself..its on a plug after all.

The draft inducer on mine has a stainless steel fan/squirrel cage, but in the last two winters it has been making some noise on startup...not the bearings as I oil them.
Problem is that a tech has already told me they can't get the parts *locally* for this furnace any more.. so I have to order any parts for it from the US.

If my 20 yr old furnace should fail, the gas tech would just *redtag the furnace* and that would be that. 

$2500 to replace it, and then there is probably the extra modifications to the heating plenum (above the furnace) where the AC coils sit *at extra cost*. By the time, it's all done..this would also mean 2-3 days without heat in the winter....not a good time to do it.


For a $130 USD (peace of mind) part..I think I will go for the spare part and order it, even if I never use it. After all, I'm not paying for a yearly maintenance plan because they don't do much for that money, and will find ways to condemn a 20 year old furnace, so they can sell you a new one.


----------



## hedgehog885 (Dec 13, 2014)

If anyone know, is there a specific type of oil used for the draft induce motor? With the new motor running smoothly right now it would be great to know and probably should oil each winter to ensure it continues to run smoothly. I believe my furnace has pass its 10 year mark. The maintenance I perform, such as vacuuming around and inside the furnace I feel may not be enough. I have never oiled any motor before but I believe I should be and soon.


----------



## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

I can imagine that any general purpose oil such as 3in1 would be ok for motor bushings, not sure.
My motor has sealed ball bearings which don't require lubrication.
When I had it apart to replace the cage, I replaced the ball bearings even though the old ones ran smoothly with no rough spots. For the minimal cost it's good insurance


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hedgehog885 said:


> If anyone know, is there a specific type of oil used for the draft induce motor? With the new motor running smoothly right now it would be great to know and probably should oil each winter to ensure it continues to run smoothly. I believe my furnace has pass its 10 year mark. The maintenance I perform, such as vacuuming around and inside the furnace I feel may not be enough. I have never oiled any motor before but I believe I should be and soon.


 The presumption here is that these small fractional horsepower draft inducer motors have bronze sleeve bearings. These bearings have a much longer life than ball bearings which would dry out due to the temperature in the environment that the fan side of the motor is operating in. 
So..if yours has ball bearings, you can't "oil' a ball bearing motor, the bearings would have to be replaced and depending on bearing availabilty and
knowledge of how to do this, it is usually better just to replace the motor for reliability. 

I have (in the past on other house items sch as a vacumn cleaner) pulled off the grease seal on one side from dried out ball bearings, washed them out in varsol, and repacked with bearing grease, then pushed the grease seals back on, but it is difficult to do this on the tiny bearings.. the bearing size has to be large enough to do this. 

I just use 10/30 motor oil in one of those CTC squirt oil cans. What you need is an oil that has enough thickness to get drawn into the bearing and motor shaft to provide adequate lubrication. Don't use WD40 spray can oils, as they dry out, then you are back to the same problem again very quickly. 

I can get at the back (bronze) bearing easily, but the front bearing near the rotating fan is tricky to gain access to, as I have to undo 3 nuts and pull the motor out slightly to get at the bronze bearing.
To improve longevity and trouble free performance of the motor itself, it should be done twice a heating season (every 2 or 3 months), I do mine in November and again in January, but even oiling once a year will be sufficient.

Of course, if the squirrel cage/blower fan is not made of a high grade stainless steel, it will corrode/rust over the years and that could cause problems where the entire motor has to be replaced in any case.

When you have a maintenance contract, this is an item that the service techs should pay special attention to for preventative maintenance...but this is from a bygone era, when people actually cared about their work. Now, most of them are just parts swappers...."we'll take your money and if it fails we will either replace the part, or sell you a new furnace".


----------



## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I've changed 3 of these induced draft fans (also called 'inducers' or other complicated term designed to make them sound more complicated than they are) on friends furnaces. It is pretty easy to do if you have any amount of techy ability - unplug (or cut the wires if there is no connector) and a couple of nuts or screws and it comes out. There is a fiberglass gasket behind the fan so be careful not to destroy it. Sometimes a new fan comes with this gasket. Sometimes, the flue needs to be removed to wiggle the fan out once its screws are removed. The ones I've changed were not capacitor start - all fractional HP 120vac motors. One friend said a repair technician told them not to oil it - but clearly stamped on the motor was "oil regularly" so it's worthwhile checking. I use 10W30 not the 3in1 type of oil and not WD40. Occasionally, the pressure switch needed to be replaced too because they put the 'pressure tap' in a different location on the fan housing - I assume to be more reliable than the original location - and a change in the pressure (actually vacuum) setting. This uses a high temperature tube. Be careful with the tube - it can be brittle. The cost of the one with the new pressure switch was about $250 - so the OP cost of $700 delivered and installed with 2 service calls would be about right if the pressure needed to be replaced also (although painful). Others were $120 without the pressure switch. From what I have experienced (which is only 3 of these) is that they typically last 10-15 years then they either start slowing down and not drawing the correct amount of draft from the heat exchanger; they get noisy on their way to failure as the bearings start to stiffen; or they just seize up and stop altogether. When checking on the problem with a furnace, I try spinning it by hand and see how easily it turns. This unit along with the flame sensor probe (~ $30) and ignitor are the most typical failure items with these furnaces. Having a spare around would be a worthwhile investment if your furnace is over $10 years old I think to get you warm again. (yes you can accumulate too many spares - I have that problem too)


----------



## dorian01 (Dec 29, 2014)

$700 is about about right from any reputable HVAC service company.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I keep a small oil can filled with synthetic 5W30 motor oil for just such jobs. You can buy a liter of oil and an oil can at Canadian Tire or hardware stores for $10 or $15. Be sure to get a good name brand oil. The synthetic oil will last longer and reduce friction more than regular oil and for all the difference in cost, is well worth it.

Since you only need a couple of drops for each bearing a liter will last a lifetime. Or you can use the rest of the liter in your car or lawn mower if you have a 4 stroke lawn mower.

One thing I did lately was take apart all the electric fans in the house, clean them, and oil the bearings. By doing this every year or 2 they will run perfectly and last forever. In fact a couple of the fans are ones I picked up for free. They only needed to be cleaned and oiled but some people throw them away and buy new ones every 2 or 3 years. This seems sinfully wasteful to me but that is what they do.


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I have heard anecdotal reports that Canadians are really being dinged on "country pricing" for furnace replacement parts, most of which come from the US. So it can be worthwhile doing some internet searching to see if you can order a part from the US.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> I have heard anecdotal reports that Canadians are really being dinged on "country pricing" for furnace replacement parts, most of which come from the US. So it can be worthwhile doing some internet searching to see if you can order a part from the US.


The problem is with the strict rules now on servicing gas furnaces, you have to call the tech to install the part, even if you order from the US parts online. 

Depending on the age of the furnace, the HVAC tech can determine that there is more wrong with it than just the motor bearings, and shut down it's operation by red tagging the furnace..if they think that the heat exchanger "is cracked"...
...once that is done, it has to have either a MORE EXPENSIVE repair if still possible to get the parts, or the entire furnace replaced with a manufacturer's warranty + a yearly maintenance
plan warranty which you may have to pay for as well.

Exhaust gases can have dangerous levels of carbon monoxide, and they won't take any chances. A lot of still serviceable gas furnaces get thrown out because of this.

I oil the sleeve bearings on my 20 yr old furnace twice every heating season just like Rusty mentioned. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to squirt some engine oil on the bearings and you are good to go, if that is all that's wrong with it.

If I called a HVAC tech to do it..my furnace would have been replaced by now. 
The furnace sellers don't like to see furnaces lasting 20 years. They prefer that they don't last much more than 10 years, then they can sell you a new furnace plus AC as well. 

There is no money to be made by squirting a few drops of oil on the bearings.


----------



## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I haven't run across a requirement of having to have a Gas Tech service the furnace - yet. Just yesterday I bought a High Temperature limit switch from Arpi's in Calgary ($20) and a few months ago a flame sensor (also $20) and the parts guy was very helpful and was happy to sell me the parts - and surprisingly they were quite reasonably priced. I also bought an "inducer fan" from them - again no problems or 'attitude' but that was $240 - but no service calls to diagnose then replace it.
He did try to sell me a new furnace though! $4500 - ouch!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Brian K said:


> I haven't run across a requirement of having to have a Gas Tech service the furnace - yet. Just yesterday I bought a High Temperature limit switch from Arpi's in Calgary ($20) and a few months ago a flame sensor (also $20) and the parts guy was very helpful and was happy to sell me the parts - and surprisingly they were quite reasonably priced. I also bought an "inducer fan" from them - again no problems or 'attitude' but that was $240 - but no service calls to diagnose then replace it.
> He did try to sell me a new furnace though! $4500 - ouch!


I have no problems buying parts for my 20 yr old medium efficiency furnace. A couple of years ago, I replaced the split phase 1/2hp fan motor with a dc commutated motor to increase the efficiency for power consumption.

Normally I can read furnace schematics, and troubleshoot any issue myself with a digital meter, but however with the replacement motor
being new, and not a direct plugin, there was some extra connections to the furnace control circuit board, 
so I called in a freelance HVAC tech who did it for a reasonable charge. I didn't want to make a mistake and fry the circuit board.

This was the only time, besides being caught in the middle of a January cold spell a couple years ago when the ignitor burned out and I had no spare ignitor, (which I ordered last year, ) after the 1 year service agreement with the emergency repair people expired.

Most people don't have a clue on how to go about troubleshooting or even understanding gas furnace operational specifics so they have to call in the service guys that (usually) rip them off, and try to sell them new furnaces..because that is where they make the most from each customer..selling and installing furnaces.hwt and of course, the yearly maintenance plans.

They are not interested in doing any real preventative maintenance such as oiling bearings...no money in that for them..after all they can charge $700 for a
replacement draft inducer motor..or as you say, tell you that your 10 year old (plus) furnace is finished, can't get parts for it and you are better off to
spend the money on a newer higher efficiency microprocessor controlled state of the art-wifi diagnostics, etc etc furnace. 

That's the way it seems to be going these days.


----------



## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree 100%. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't or couldn't fix this stuff my self. 

My next 'project' is to replace the bearings and a seal on a front load 5 year old washing machine. The seal is not normally available as a consumer part - but I found one with an internet search. The manufacturers do sell the whole drum for about $350 with the bearings and seal installed - but I only need the seal and 2 bearings - $120 with expensive shipping from the US but my labour is 'free'. So screw them. Moral (or lack of it) of the story - manufacturers would rather sell a whole new device that only lasts till the warranty is over, then you buy another because the parts and labour to install is just about the cost of a new one with a warranty.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Brian K said:


> I agree 100%. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't or couldn't fix this stuff my self.
> 
> My next 'project' is to replace the bearings and a seal on a front load 5 year old washing machine. The seal is not normally available as a consumer part - but I found one with an internet search. The manufacturers do sell the whole drum for about $350 with the bearings and seal installed - but I only need the seal and 2 bearings - $120 with expensive shipping from the US but my labour is 'free'. So screw them. Moral (or lack of it) of the story - manufacturers would rather sell a whole new device that only lasts till the warranty is over, then you buy another because the parts and labour to install is just about the cost of a new one with a warranty.


I hear ya. I have a 20 yr old GE Heavy Duty washer and a dryer about the same age. I don't have heavy loads or do my laundry every week like some families,
(wear my underwear inside out:redface:..just kidding)..and so far no problems with either one of them. My friend has a high tech front load washer and dryer she bought
from H-D, and she's had the service guys come in twice in the 3 years she has owned the pair for Microprocessor board replacement..out of warranty
of course!

I don't have that kind of complexity on my old laundry pair.it's still motor operated timers..crank the timer and pull out the knob and you're good to go.
Simple is better in some cases, but of course, I can't preprogram the washer to come on from my wi-fi smart phone (is there an app for that?) either..LOL!. :biggrin:


----------

