# Not happy with Scotiabank



## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

I've been a longtime Scotiabank customer who once had a sizeable mortgage with Scotiabank. My wife and I still have self directed RRSP accounts with them. Here's my very unpleasant experience with them. 
Background: I called their 1 800 number around the middle of Aug. 2014 to advise of my impending trip to Europe to ensure that I would be able to withdraw funds from ATM's of the Deutsche Bank in Germany, using my Scotiacard.. I was assured that a note had been placed on my file with the dates of my trip and that withdrawals had been authorized from a foreign ATM at a foreign bank. In other words, I was good to go. 
Fast forward to my first attempt to withdraw funds at the Deutsche Bank on 04 Sept. 2014 and I was restricted to a single withdrawal of 100 Euros. Any further attempts were blocked. The Deutsche Bank couldn't help me and advised me to contact Scotiabank, which I did by e-mail that same evening.
I had no response to my e-mail and was quickly running out of money, as you can appreciate. I tried to withdraw money again on 09 Sept. 2014 and this time I was restricted to 200 Euros after which my card was again rejected by the ATM @ Deutsche Bank. 
Fortunately, on a whim, my wife suggested I try our Presidents Choice Financial Bank Card at the ATM and thank heavens it allowed me to withdraw an appropriate sum that I needed. Keep in mind that I had made no prior arrangements with PCF for any foreign withdrawals from my account. To say I was relieved would be an understatement. That same evening I again e-mailed Scotiabank and FINALLY received a response 2 days later. The excuse I was given was that I had failed to increase my daily withdrawal limit at my local Scotiabank branch. It would have been REALLY helpful if I had been made aware of this during my 1-800 call 3 weeks prior to my trip. 
I was very fortunate to have had my PCF card with me along with enough funds in my PCF account to see me through. 
I had made a large deposit into my Scotiabank account to enable me to use these funds during my trip, which was not to be.
Scotiabank also advertises that, since they are affiliated with the Deutsche Bank, fees for foreign withdrawal and foreign exchange are reduced substantially. I can tell you that I paid exactly the same fees for foreign withdrawal and exchange @ Scotiabank as I did with Presidents Choice Financial. 
I am very disappointed with this whole matter . It could've been a lot more embarrassing for us were it not for the fact that I stayed with relatives and had no hotel bill to worry about. 
I am also thankful that I took along my PCF bank card, which saved my skin. On any future international trips I will no longer use Scotiabank services and I will also look into transferring our self directed RRSP accounts to another financial institution with more attention to detail. I just wonder if the other big 4 are any different. 
BTW I wrote to Scotiabank about this and got the standard "we're sorry and we'll make sure it doesn't happen to others" BS answer.......... very disappointing indeed!!


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

You went more than 100km from home without a credit card? Hmm.

I can well imagine your frustration with Scotia on this. I have been using CanadaTrust then TD ATM cards all over the place for decades and have never had any difficulty at all. I have, for many years, made a point of having two ATM cards for different bank accounts (one at CIBC and one at TD) just in case. Your experience tends to recommend that approach. I also NEVER attempt to use my credit card as a bank card at a foreign bank. They will automatically take a credit advance rather than a withdrawal and there's no indication until you're looking at your statement a month later.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree with gardner but would add:

1) Make sure you have appropriate ATM withdrawal limits AND make sure you have a 4 digit PIN.

2) Use credit cards where possible

3) Always carry a 2nd ATM card and 2nd credit card


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## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

Luckily that 2nd debit card saved my skin. I had my Master Card with me but never bothered with a PIN since I never needed one here in Canada. However, unbeknownst to me a PIN was required in Germany and not having one I could not use my credit card. First thing I did upon coming home was getting a PIN


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

I was in Mexico last winter and after 3 months my debit card stopped working.
I was told the card was compromised but no further explanation ?

This is with BMO and they knew I was down there. 
Had to use my credit card for the last month and also didn't have a pin but when I contacted BMO they cleared the card so I could make a pin number from the ATM.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I agree, that's really bad that even though informed them of upcoming travel, they still restricted the card's use. Thanks for the note and I will have to be more careful next time I'm in Europe. I've really enjoyed Scotia's global ATM alliance (you can use it without fees at Barclays, Deutsche Bank, Westpac, and many other global banks) but apparently I should be more careful about relying on this.

But e-mail is not an appropriate way to contact a bank -- ever.

E-mail is an insecure, unreliable, and easy to forge mechanism. I am not aware of any bank that will take serious instructions through e-mail, as a policy. They certainly won't give it priority. You should always phone a bank if you encounter problems like this when travelling. All banks accept collect calls from anywhere in the world.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Or just as good, send a Secure Message via their secure online banking website. They prefer this method and I always use it.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Or just as good,* send a Secure Message via their secure online banking website.* They prefer this method and I always use it.


That is the only way PCF will acknowledge any email from you. There has been too much email phishing.


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## Sasquatch (Jan 28, 2012)

When I said I contacted the bank via e-mail I did so by logging into their secure website and sent them a secure message. I guess e-mail was not the right word...... sorry about that.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I have had the exact opposite experience to the OP. 

This Spring I travelled to Europe with a friend. She had visited her bank (CIBC) before traveling to ensure that she had the right debit card and would be able to withdraw cash in Europe. Well, guess what, she couldn't, for the first three times she tried, with major European banks. Several phone calls to CIBC later, she eventually found a bank machine in Vienna that allowed her to withdraw cash. As an inexperienced traveler, she had assumed that ATMs would freely spit out cash and, foolishly, had not brought local currencies with her. 

I am a longstanding Scotiabank customer. I did not tell Scotiabank about my trip, as I had some local currency and I usually put most purchases on my credit card (then with CIBC). I did tell CIBC about my travel plans before departure. I have twice had my CIBC credit card refused abroad, including one time that they had been informed of all the details of my plans. I now know to be prepared for contingencies.

When my friend had no luck at DeutscheBank at FRA with her CIBC bank card, I offered to try my Scotiabank card. Bingo! Cash on demand. This happened several times. It got tiresome being my friend's cash machine for the first week of the trip, but at least she was not alone. She, of course, was very frustrated with CIBC and made a complaint.

Unfortunately, problems such as the OP's seem to happen with all financial institutions. They are quite capricious and may be related to factors not obvious to the consumer, such as whether the particular bank abroad does or does not have an agreement with your host institution, or incompatible security systems, PIN numbers, Chips, etc. As a long ago immigrant to Canada, I originally chose Scotiabank because it has a global presence. I travel widely and Scotiabank has never yet left me in the lurch. (Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in Scotiabank).

I am sorry to hear that the OP had this problem. My suggestion would be to always have backup plans to access finances when traveling.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Absolutely. We travel with several credit cards and several debit cards. And we do not keep them in the same place in case of theft. Yes, we have had issues from time to time.

Had major issues with our Chase Bank Visa (no admin charges added to fx charges) but these seem to hav been rectified. no more issues since. 

My recommendation would be to never travel with just one type of credit card or one debit card. A security glitch can easily render one of these cards useless.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

fraser said:


> Absolutely. We travel with several credit cards and several debit cards. And we do not keep them in the same place in case of theft. Yes, we have had issues from time to time.
> 
> Had major issues with our Chase Bank Visa (no admin charges added to fx charges) but these seem to hav been rectified. no more issues since.
> 
> My recommendation would be to never travel with just one type of credit card or one debit card. A security glitch can easily render one of these cards useless.


All debit cards have a daily and weekly withdraw limit. I bumped into this with TD and a call promptly solved my problem. It could happen to any card. Since Germany is mostly cash based economy, lots of americans will bunp into this problem as we need more cash instead of using credit cards.

I had trouble with RBC in Africa where withdrawals went through but no money came out. Took 6 months to dispute the charge when I got back.

So far, TD debit card and Visa based credit cards are the best for travelling out of the big 5 banks. I will be getting HSBC premier next year, so I should be able to provide testimony on its world wide ease of use.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Regarding the comment on cash, I always take a substantial amount of cash to Europe for the precise reasons mentioned. This past summer on a river cruise in Europe, we left Canada with 600 Euros (300 each). Very easy to need 50+ Euros just for a significant taxi ride.

Turned out we didn't need to go to an ATM at all over the 3 weeks. There were few places where I couldn't or didn't want to use a credit card.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We use cash as well. Some of the places we stay ask for cash.

And when they do not, we ask for a discount for cash. We find that this works well in Greece, Turkey, and Italy....where we will be next week. Anywhere from a five to ten percent discount.

We also find that notwithstanding our bank's daily limit, there is often a difference between countries and between banks in those countries in terms of how much can be withdrawn at one time from an atm. We are currently in Malta. We can get E500 from BOV which is more than we could get from other banks in Prague or Vienna. The post office banks in Italy allow us to withdraw more at one time than the other banks in Italy seem to.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Turned out we didn't need to go to an ATM at all over the 3 weeks. There were few places where I couldn't or didn't want to use a credit card.


The tourist places will take Visa/Mastercard, but it is definitely not uncommon for places in Europe to not accept credit cards, or to at least warn you if they do it will cost you extra!

In some small towns the gas pumps are on automatic and only accept EU debit cards or cash, but then you are lucky for that as many countries just close the gas pumps after 6.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

heyjude said:


> My suggestion would be to always have backup plans to access finances when traveling.


Ditto that.

While I have only once had a problem, it got us into a mode where we travel with 3 of my debit cards, 2 of my wife's debit cards and a total of 4 credit cards PLUS, being paranoid, a reasonable amount of local cash. The one problem I had was at a hotel in the US, I solved it by going down the street and finding an ATM that was happy to give me cash.

Note that RBC, at least, says you don't have to notify them of your travel plans. I imagine they trust their algorithms but I'd be P*ssed if I didn't call and got blocked.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

LBCfan said:


> Note that RBC, at least, says you don't have to notify them of your travel plans. I imagine they trust their algorithms but I'd be P*ssed if I didn't call and got blocked.


Yes, I saw the same note and will test that with that specific credit card the next time I am International. They say they have sophisticated fraud detection that makes it unncessary, but if it should become an issue, they would contact me. Okay.... but how? Email or my home landline?

I've not seen that same comment from Capital One, CIBC or Amex. I usually fill out travel plans at each site.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Banks tend to be careful with cards in the case of my debit card they are responsible for fraudulent activity over 50.00.

I've only ever had it happen once the pin was compromised and 480.00 was taken from my account I noticed it the same day and called the bank they stepped on the card right away.
This was a Saturday evening.
Must have been a surprise for the thief when they tried on Sunday to get more, I assume the machine likely would have kept the card.

Two days later the money was put back in my account.


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## ChrisR (Jul 13, 2009)

LBCfan said:


> Note that RBC, at least, says you don't have to notify them of your travel plans. I imagine they trust their algorithms but I'd be P*ssed if I didn't call and got blocked.


I also saw that notice, and I actually suspect that most credit card issuers stopped recording travel plans years ago. The first time I traveled with my PC card, I called to let them know, and the guy on the other end was clearly thinking: "so what are you telling me for?" 

For the past 5 years I've traveled without telling anyone, and I've never had a problem with my credit cards, or big bank issued debit cards. (The disclaimer is that over 10 years ago I did have a credit card cancelled, the story of which is outlined in my next post!)


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## ChrisR (Jul 13, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> Yes, I saw the same note and will test that with that specific credit card the next time I am International. They say they have sophisticated fraud detection that makes it unncessary, but if it should become an issue, they would contact me. Okay.... but how? Email or my home landline?


Funny you should ask that! A little over 10 years ago I spent 4 months in Europe. For the first 3.5 months I withdrew cash from ATM's with an RBC debit card regularly, and used my RBC visa at least 20 times. Right at the end of my trip my visa was rejected in a restaurant. Apparently RBC tried calling my *home phone* twice, and because I wasn't home to explain why my card was being used on another continent, they cancelled it. The kicker for me was that over the first 3 months of my trip, I logged into my RBC account many times, and *paid my visa off in full every billing cycle! *Seriously, would I do that if I was tied up in a basement and someone was traveling the world on my credit card?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

ChrisR said:


> Apparently RBC tried calling my *home phone* twice, and because I wasn't home to explain why my card was being used on another continent, they cancelled it. The kicker for me was that over the first 3 months of my trip, I logged into my RBC account many times, and *paid my visa off in full every billing cycle! *Seriously, would I do that if I was tied up in a basement and someone was traveling the world on my credit card?


I have had several problems of this nature with various suppliers: banks and other providers who bill services to my credit cards. I have had to change my "home" number to our VOIP number so I can respond in a day (I get voice files sent to my email plus direct calls to my smartphone whenever wifi is connected). It seems that phone calls seem to be the default method of reaching people.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

kcowan said:


> I have had several problems of this nature with various suppliers: banks and other providers who bill services to my credit cards. I have had to change my "home" number to our VOIP number so I can respond in a day (I get voice files sent to my email plus direct calls to my smartphone whenever wifi is connected). It seems that phone calls seem to be the default method of reaching people.


Same here. It has saved me from headaches many times for just about anything important people call about as I spend most of time on the road. I always tell everyone to email me, because it is so much easier to respond to, but alas voip is the only solution until everyone understands globalization. If I gave them a local number they would say it's "wrong"

I figure that today when you call credit cards with travel plans they make a note of it but they leave the computers in full control anyways.. I suppose for the typical vacation trip the algorithms could handle it but I still trip it up all the time, and it doesn't make any difference if I called ahead or not.

I often have problems with PayPal, and they recently told me they cannot even override the system. It's not 1 thing that trips their security, but a combination of things. I always end up having to verify my ID again and then trick the system with a VPN.. Apparently it's impossible to visit many countries.


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## fersure (Apr 19, 2009)

Doesn't help the original posted, but TD allows their customers to set travel notifications online through Easyweb. It is easier and faster than dealing with a teller / phone agent - and there is a record of your request in case there's a problem during your trip. Service includes ATM and credit cards issued by TD.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

m3s said:


> I often have problems with PayPal, and they recently told me they cannot even override the system. It's not 1 thing that trips their security, but a combination of things. I always end up having to verify my ID again and then trick the system with a VPN.. Apparently it's impossible to visit many countries.


Two years ago I booked a vacation condo in Hawaii whose owners would only accept PayPal or a US certified check. PayPal withdrew the money from my account but held it up for several weeks for reasons I still do not understand. They would not respond to calls or messages. The payment deadline passed and the condo owners threatened to cancel my reservation. It was eventually resolved but PayPal put a surcharge on because the exchange rate had changed while *they* were holding my money hostage. I will no longer use PayPal for any reason.


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