# What is up with US press conferences ?



## sags (May 15, 2010)

When PM Trudeau gives a press conference, the reporters politely ask questions and when he is finished he smiles and says thank you and starts to walk away, the room is quiet and the reporters begin filing out. Nobody is yelling and screaming to get out.

When President Trump gives a press conference, the reporters shout out questions and when he is finished, a couple of very vocal female assistants start screaming "get out, everybody out, get out now ." They repeat if over and over and over.

The US press conferences sound like they are dispersing a mob compared to Canadian press conferences.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Canadians = complacent ... 
Americans = melo-dramatic ... 

... of which follows the type & style of leadership in both countries.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Speaking of the press, it is rumored that Rupert Murdoch is under pressure to order his Fox Network to start telling the truth about COV19.

Given all that has happened, it is almost criminally negligent to have Fox anchors calling COV19 a Democratic plot to impeach the President.

Just recently, I watched the Fox News anchors compare the COV19 to the normal flu, and suggest it was nothing for people to worry about.

Fox News has more viewers than any other network. Many who watch it believe everything they are hearing and their audience tends to be older high risk people.

Lives could very well be at stake when supplied with false information.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I watched CNN anchors call Trump a Russian spy and am currrently watching liberal media hiding Biden's plainly obvious Alzheimer's. On the other hand, several doctors have said that the fear mongering about Coronavirus is way overblown.

This topic is just another sags "I hate Trump" rant.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Come on PG.........the Trumpster was huffing and puffing like the big bad wolf.

Even on Fox News they are saying it was a terrible press conference.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

The problem is that a lot of reporters in the US think that they're the story. Rather than ask a question they grandstand and attack. If Trudeau was faced with the same attacks from the media that Trump faces he couldn't handle it.

But the media in Canada and the US are mostly leftist so they take it easy on liberals. Trudeau has never faced a tough question in his life from the media, and neither did Obama.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

There is the issue that Americans are more partisan, but Canada is catching up fast.

Canadians are losing faith in the democratic institutions under Trudeau, which will push us into the same tribalism that the US has now.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Have you guys noticed that YOU are the same posters who always post these 'right vs. left' type of comments whenever the slightest opportunity to do so presents itself. I think you need to consider that. 

Canada is not the USA and Canadians are not Americans. Our country is not perfect, nor are our politicians but thank goodness we are a far more civilized culture than exists in the USA. We have a small percentage of extremists of which YOU guys are examples but we have far fewer than the USA and again thank goodness.

Maybe YOU guys need to start your own forum where you can happily spout extremist nonsense to each other and happily keep trying to beat each other over the head with your 'leftist' or 'rightist' viewpoint.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I wish there was a like button on this forum ,Longtimeago you head it on the head .


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

The media is far too biased so it's impossible to avoid left or right comments when discussing them.

Or, you can put your head in the sand and pretend that they report fairly.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Prairie Guy said:


> The media is far too biased so it's impossible to avoid left or right comments when discussing them.
> 
> Or, you can put your head in the sand and pretend that they report fairly.


I have little time for the media or how they 'report' anything Prairie Guy. I recognize bias and ignore it, just as I ignore any bias in anything the politicians of ANY party have to say.  I pick out the actual facts and I discuss the FACTS. 

You guys by contrast, want to spend much more time 'discussing' (that's a joke) your opinions.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Absolutely sickening. Keir Simmons of NBC is now openly spreading Chinese government propaganda:

"China and South Korea may have helped the Western Europe and America by delaying the arrival of the Coronavirus but now they are worrying that they may get re-infected by the Coronavirus by the rest of the world":

https://twitter.com/kjdrennen/status/1240629871585439746


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Prairie Guy said:


> "China and South Korea may have helped the Western Europe and America by delaying the arrival of the Coronavirus but now they are worrying that they may get re-infected by the Coronavirus by the rest of the world"


Is this not a possibility for them?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Is this not a possibility for them?


Wow.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

They delayed the spread and they can get re-infected. It's a true statement. We are all infected with a center of the world bias.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Just a thought......but maybe the US should hold back any criticism of China until after they get back all the manufacturing of medication, face masks, ventilators and pretty much everything else they need.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

m3s said:


> They delayed the spread and they can get re-infected. It's a true statement. We are all infected with a center of the world bias.


No sags. They CAUSED the spread instead of taking steps early to contain it. Stop repeating communist propaganda.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> They CAUSED the spread instead of taking steps early to contain it. Stop repeating communist propaganda.


Any facts to back up that? You are the one repeating propaganda..


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Okay....how that does that go ?

Trump to China......The Chinese virus is all your fault. Oh, and could you sell us all the medicine and equipment we need to fight it ?

China to Trump.....sorry, we are too busy trying to stop the virus you said is our fault.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

m3s said:


> Any facts to back up that? You are the one repeating propaganda..


What propaganda? The virus started in China. If you have other information that no one else has, please share it with us.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Okay....how that does that go ?
> 
> Trump to China......The Chinese virus is all your fault. Oh, and could you sell us all the medicine and equipment we need to fight it ?
> 
> China to Trump.....sorry, we are too busy trying to stop the virus you said is our fault.


Where did the virus begin sags?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Many viral outbreaks have started in Europe, the US, Mexico, India, Africa....and we don't call them the American flu, the Mexican flu, the Indian flu.

Trump doesn't use the term to identify the origin of the outbreak. Everybody already knows that. He uses it to try to blame China for his own lack of preparedness.

Did Trump not notice the virus spreading China. Did he not get daily security briefings on the outbreak ? Did he not know it had spread to South Korea and Japan ?

The question is why Trump is only yesterday invoking measures to stock medical equipment and supplies ? People know the reason.

Trump and his pals at Fox News were denying the virus because they feared how it would affect his election chances. It isn't like the best scientists in the world weren't telling him.

It seems that other high level politicians knew what was coming. Members of Committees who got their briefings sold millions of dollars worth of stock before the crash.

And it involved both Republicans and Democrats who had advance knowledge that described the outbreak as bad as the Spanish flu.

They knew. They just didn't tell anyone so they could benefit. One wonders what financial transactions the Trump family was involved in after the initial briefings.

Don't worry.....the story is alive now and the media will dig out the truth.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Many viral outbreaks have started in Europe, the US, Mexico, India, Africa....and we don't call them the American flu, the Mexican flu, the Indian flu.


That's incorrect.

Ebola - named after Ebola river where it started
MERS - Middle East Respiratory Syndrome
West Nile
Guinea Worm
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Lyme Disease - Lyme, Connecticut
Norovirus - Norwalk, Ohia
Japanese Encephalitis
German Measles - named after German doctor
Spanish Flu - first cases reported in Spain 



> Trump doesn't use the term to identify the origin of the outbreak. Everybody already knows that. He uses it to try to blame China for his own lack of preparedness.


Factually incorrect.

Please stop spreading misinformation. You threaten the credibility of this website with your non-stop conspiracy theories and outright disinformation.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Typhoid, malaria, syphillis. herpes, ringworm, HIV, ......and how about smallpox and thousands of other viruses ? 

Smallpox started in Europe (bring out your dead) and was brought to America's western frontier where it killed thousands of settlers and native Americans.

Smallpox shall forever forth be known as the Euro America flu.

The Spanish flu started in Northern China. The Swine flu started in Mexico...the Mexico Flu ? Legionaires started in Philadelphia....the Philadelphia Flu ?

Silly Trump blamed the "northern and southern" borders for the transmission of the COVID virus in today's press conference.

He gave numbers of illegal aliens crossing each border. He is now blaming China, Mexico and Canada for his failure to lead. 

Trump the draft dodger, self proclaims himself the "wartime" President who will stand in history among the great wartime leaders......Churchill, Eisenhower, Lincoln.

I think it more likely that Trump will be remembered as the Neville Chamberlain of our time.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> That's incorrect.
> 
> Ebola - named after Ebola river where it started
> MERS - Middle East Respiratory Syndrome
> ...


Trump going out of his way to call it the "China virus" when everyone is calling it either COVID-19 or coronavirus is obviously an attempt at branding it. One would imagine at a way of deflecting blame.

The examples you mention, these are the commonly used names for these illnesses. COVID-19 is not commonly known as the China virus or Wuhan virus as FOX has tried to brand it. They are trying to make that a thing, for patently political reasons.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Absolutely sickening. Keir Simmons of NBC is now openly spreading Chinese government propaganda:
> 
> "China and South Korea may have helped the Western Europe and America by delaying the arrival of the Coronavirus but now they are worrying that they may get re-infected by the Coronavirus by the rest of the world":
> 
> https://twitter.com/kjdrennen/status/1240629871585439746


It is true that they may get 'reinfected'.

China could have done more to control the spread in Wuhan, and they could have done more by banning 'wet markets' which are like ticking time bombs (same root causes as SARS). However, once China came around to the seriousness of COVID-19, they took extreme steps to try to contain it. This helped to slow the spread to not only the rest of China but also the rest of the world. I can't say that I'm confident any other country would certainly have done a better job. Witness Italy, even having warning, getting completely flattened by this.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mexico apparently has a terrible response.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> It is true that they may get 'reinfected'.
> 
> China could have done more to control the spread in Wuhan, and they could have done more by banning 'wet markets' which are like ticking time bombs (same root causes as SARS). However, once China came around to the seriousness of COVID-19, they took extreme steps to try to contain it. This helped to slow the spread to not only the rest of China but also the rest of the world. I can't say that I'm confident any other country would certainly have done a better job. Witness Italy, even having warning, getting completely flattened by this.


The first country is always worse off, it always takes time to identify what's going on. By the time you know what's happening the virus escapes with people that have already left.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Trump going out of his way to call it the "China virus" when everyone is calling it either COVID-19 or coronavirus is obviously an attempt at branding it. One would imagine at a way of deflecting blame.
> 
> The examples you mention, these are the commonly used names for these illnesses. COVID-19 is not commonly known as the China virus or Wuhan virus as FOX has tried to brand it. They are trying to make that a thing, for patently political reasons.


You are incorrect. AGAIN.

Everyone called it Wuhan flu or the Chinese flu, including CNN and all of the left media. Then China decided to called it racist and the media immediately adopted the communist party line and made a complete about face. Trump is the only one brave enough not to cave into the Chinese propaganda.

To blame Fox is a blatant lie because only China "changed" the name of the flu. You and a few others should stop spreading communist propaganda...it threatens the credibility of this site.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

NBC reporter asked Trump what he wanted to say to Americans who are scared. Instead of reassuring the public that everything is being done as well as possible, he decides to attack the reporter, calling him a terrible reporter asking a nasty question. What an ***!

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...sage-to-americans-coronavirus-presser-vpx.cnn

As for Presidential press conferences of old, I recall that at some point, someone would say "Thank you Mr. President". That was the cue for the president to leave, and the reports stand up and file out. Very civilized; not like today's **** shows.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Some reporters have been lying ever since the election...those ones don't deserve respect. They made the choice to be dishonest and now they're paying the price for their actions. Too bad.

Trump could have just banned him from press conferences like Trudeau does to media that he doesn't like. Some people here don't care that Trudeau bribes some media and completely bans other accredited media, but if Trump dares to just call out a reporter for being dishonest their heads explode.

The double standard is ridiculous.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Userkare said:


> NBC reporter asked Trump what he wanted to say to Americans who are scared. Instead of reassuring the public that everything is being done as well as possible, he decides to attack the reporter, calling him a terrible reporter asking a nasty question. What an ***!
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...sage-to-americans-coronavirus-presser-vpx.cnn
> 
> As for Presidential press conferences of old, I recall that at some point, someone would say "Thank you Mr. President". That was the cue for the president to leave, and the reports stand up and file out. Very civilized; not like today's **** shows.


I caught a bit of that this morning and have to laugh for a few reasons

First off I don't know why Trump is doing this Q&A everyday, put out written press release or at least have someone else make a statement and leave.

Secondly, I think he is right about the reporter (it was a stupid question) though he should have just ignored him and moved on. Reminded me of the old movie cliche when the reporter comes up after a bad incident and asks "How do you feel now?". Like everyone doesn't already know they are doing everything they can.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

cainvest said:


> I caught a bit of that this morning and have to laugh for a few reasons
> 
> First off I don't know why Trump is doing this Q&A everyday, put out written press release or at least have someone else make a statement and leave.
> 
> Secondly, I think he is right about the reporter (it was a stupid question) though he should have just ignored him and moved on. Reminded me of the old movie cliche when the reporter comes up after a bad incident and asks "How do you feel now?". Like everyone doesn't already know they are doing everything they can.


How was it a "stupid question"?
People are concerned, Trudeau and Ford do the "compassionate" thing pretty well, and neither of them is "very very super smart about this kind of stuff"


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> You are incorrect. AGAIN.
> 
> Everyone called it Wuhan flu or the Chinese flu, including CNN and all of the left media. Then China decided to called it racist and the media immediately adopted the communist party line and made a complete about face ...


While there are reports that Chinese media started out with Wuhan flu ... in my case, this is the first I've seen of "Wuhan flu" or "Chinese flu".
Lots of "cornavirus" or "novel corona virus" with Wuhan in the next three to six words of the report.

Strange that something everyone was using didn't show up in any of the media reports I've seen in Canada, US local coverage I've seen and US newspapers I have.




Prairie Guy said:


> ... Trump is the only one brave enough not to cave into the Chinese propaganda.
> 
> To blame Fox is a blatant lie because only China "changed" the name of the flu. You and a few others should stop spreading communist propaganda...it threatens the credibility of this site.


From my perspective, cornavirus to Wuhan flu is a change .... propaganda or not.


Cheers


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> Speaking of the press, it is rumored that Rupert Murdoch is under pressure to order his Fox Network to start telling the truth about COV19.
> 
> Given all that has happened, it is almost criminally negligent to have Fox anchors calling COV19 a Democratic plot to impeach the President.
> 
> ...


 More people will die from the flu this year then COV19 yet the flu does not shut down the entire glob. What is going on here? Was it a plan to nationalize corporate America so the central banks own everything ? Also eliminate cash so they can control everything. They have lost all credibility when cities start calling state of emergencies for bogus man made global warming. The press is way out of line.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

:) lonewolf said:


> More people will die from the flu this year then COV19 yet the flu does not shut down the entire glob. What is going on here? Was it a plan to nationalize corporate America so the central banks own everything ? Also eliminate cash so they can control everything. They have lost all credibility when cities start calling state of emergencies for bogus man made global warming. The press is way out of line.


It's the 3-8% death rate.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Seriously........the normal flu has a fatality rate of 0.1%.

COVID has a fatality rate from near 0% for kids, to 3% for middle age, to 14% for people over 80 years of age.

The normal flu kills tens of thousands. This flu could kill tens of millions.

It is also highly contagious and remains active on hard surfaces for days or weeks.

If that isn't enough, some scientists say the virus may be mutating as it moves person to person, so every country will have different statistics.

That means if they develop a vaccine or treatment, it may not work if the virus has mutated.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> Seriously........the normal flu has a fatality rate of 0.1%.
> 
> COVID has a fatality rate from near 0% for kids, to 3% for middle age, to 14% for people over 80 years of age.
> 
> The normal flu kills tens of thousands. This flu could kill tens of millions.


 Yearly the flu kills tens of thousands in the US, The flu kills 100s of thousands world wide, In a bad year the flu kills a few million. The cruise ships people were exposed to the virus for days yet what was the percentage of the people that died ? The government & the press can not be trusted. Maybe this Covid is as bad as they say it is or is it being used to create panic to gain control ?


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

In France journalists must now get permission from the government to cover a story source Martin Armstrong March 19 2020 blog


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> It's the 3-8% death rate.


That's only the confirmed cases. 80%+ of people with the virus are showing little or no symptoms and the majority of them haven't been tested. 

Without full testing of those with no symptoms or minor symptoms the death rate isn't known but can be estimated at less than 1%...just like how they guess the flu death rate based on a few tests.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The rate is irrelevant when hospitals get overwhelmed and have to decide who to let die


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

m3s said:


> The rate is irrelevant when hospitals get overwhelmed and have to decide who to let die


The rate is very relevant. Saying it's 8% when it's nowhere near is dishonest and fear mongering. If the hospitals get overwhelmed that's an entirely different issue that has nothing to do with dishonest reporting.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> You are incorrect. AGAIN.
> 
> Everyone called it Wuhan flu or the Chinese flu, including CNN and all of the left media. Then China decided to called it racist and the media immediately adopted the communist party line and made a complete about face. Trump is the only one brave enough not to cave into the Chinese propaganda.
> 
> To blame Fox is a blatant lie because only China "changed" the name of the flu. You and a few others should stop spreading communist propaganda...it threatens the credibility of this site.


I have never heard anyone refer to it as such outside Trump and FOX. You do not see a single mention in Canada of anyone calling it Wuhan flu. FFS, it isn't even influenza!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

:) lonewolf said:


> More people will die from the flu this year then COV19 yet the flu does not shut down the entire glob. What is going on here? Was it a plan to nationalize corporate America so the central banks own everything ? Also eliminate cash so they can control everything. They have lost all credibility when cities start calling state of emergencies for bogus man made global warming. The press is way out of line.


Are you sure? Flu kills perhaps 600k worldwide. I honestly am not sure we won't crest that by end of year with COVID.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> The rate is very relevant. Saying it's 8% when it's nowhere near is dishonest and fear mongering. If the hospitals get overwhelmed that's an entirely different issue that has nothing to do with dishonest reporting.


What we know is dishonest is the claims that this is no big deal and everyone is over-reacting. It is not normal for hospitals to get overwhelmed. They filled convention centres and sports arenas in Wuhan with those sick from this. You have to be a little thick to believe that we shouldn't be reacting to this.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> What we know is dishonest is the claims that this is no big deal and everyone is over-reacting. It is not normal for hospitals to get overwhelmed. They filled convention centres and sports arenas in Wuhan with those sick from this. You have to be a little thick to believe that we shouldn't be reacting to this.


I didn't say that. I said 8% is nowhere near accurate and is fear mongering. You have to be a little thick to not grasp that.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

If you think the death rate is <1%, that means you also believe there are millions of cases assuming a good number of those who will die have not yet died. Just math. I haven't been claiming an 8% death rate (mostly just sags freaking out). I fear 1% might be too low if the health care system is overwhelmed. See the military convoy leaving Milan last night hauling out the dead.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> I didn't say that. I said 8% is nowhere near accurate and is fear mongering. You have to be a little thick to not grasp that.


Global death rate is 11%, China and Korea are reporting 4%.
I think the rate is somewhere between 3-8%, based on current medical resources and treatments.

Do you want to tell italy that 8% is fearmongering?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

There was a poster here that was an MD...he mentioned that the death rate is ~1% to the best of the medical establishments knowledge. Of course he must be wrong & is lying to us right? 
Not too hard to think the stats thru...we only have 1 set of completer data...that is the cruise ship...all the rest of data we have is incomplete.
I also am guessing here...but I bet the average age on the cruise ship was higher than the average age in Italy.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> There was a poster here that was an MD...he mentioned that the death rate is ~1% to the best of the medical establishments knowledge. Of course he must be wrong & is lying to us right?
> Not too hard to think the stats thru...we only have 1 set of completer data...that is the cruise ship...all the rest of data we have is incomplete.
> I also am guessing here...but I bet the average age on the cruise ship was higher than the average age in Italy.


Hopefully they're right.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The best source for minute by minute COVID19 news from around the world.

You won't get it from a US press conference where Trump argues with the most knowledgeable scientist on the planet.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/covid19


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## GGuy (Mar 21, 2018)

marina628 said:


> I wish there was a like button on this forum ,Longtimeago you head it on the head .


I'd rather have a dislike button. :distrust:


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

GGuy said:


> I'd rather have a dislike button. :distrust:


We kind of do ... but it's called "Add to Ignore List".


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## Parkuser (Mar 12, 2014)

sags said:


> ...The Spanish flu started in Northern China...


Then it looks like Kansas is stealing the credit.

https://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/flu-epidemic-of-1918/17805


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## Parkuser (Mar 12, 2014)

Here is some death statistics.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> Global death rate is 11%, China and Korea are reporting 4%.
> I think the rate is somewhere between 3-8%, based on current medical resources and treatments.
> 
> Do you want to tell italy that 8% is fearmongering?


Yes, 8% is fear mongering. 11% is even worse fear mongering. None of those rates take into account people who have contracted it but have not been tested.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Yes, 8% is fear mongering. 11% is even worse fear mongering. None of those rates take into account people who have contracted it but have not been tested.
> 
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-outbreak-diamond-princess-cruise-ship-death-rate


I posted to that link in the other thread. They are much less fearsome numbers. 
Not that 1% is good, but that's far better than ALL the other data is showing.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

So only 3 million Americans and 300,000 Canadians will die from COVID19 ? Well that is a relief. I feel much better now.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> So only 3 million Americans and 300,000 Canadians will die from COVID19 ? Well that is a relief. I feel much better now.


Please apply some common sense. The cruise ship was an example of a crowded space where no one knew about the virus at first and it was impossible to practice proper distancing. Daily crowds in the ship's restaurants and people in close contact all day long. It's a worst case scenario example.

I real life the numbers will be far less.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

How much less, 200k, 100k?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

MrMatt said:


> How much less, 200k, 100k?


"John P.A. Ioannidis is professor of medicine, of epidemiology and population health, of biomedical data science, and of statistics at Stanford University and co-director of Stanford’s Meta-Research Innovation Center."

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17...tE91LOMMitM0w4h2kKU221e00ltNGJO_bd5rtAWSieB8c


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

People and doctors who treat patients or have been infected themselves, say this flu is nothing like they have ever suffered or seen before.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> I real life the numbers will be far less.


Numbers will be far more if the hospitals are overwhelmed like in Italy.

Video I was going to post from inside an Italian hospital has been removed.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

For anyone that has hung out in ICU,any day can be video'd as a horror show. I was unfortunate enough to sleep on a chair beside my wife for a few weeks in ICU....I won't forget the memory soon and video's of people suffering in ICU have no place here or anywhere....pandemic or not.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> Numbers will be far more if the hospitals are overwhelmed like in Italy.
> 
> Video I was going to post from inside an Italian hospital has been removed.


I think this is what the 'what me worry' crowd is missing. It's great that the cruise ship had lower mortality than might be expected given the stats. That was with outside support from a medical system that was not overwhelmed. Wonder what the fatality rate would look like if we had to start pulling ventilators from the people on the ship due to lack of equipment/staff.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Eder said:


> For anyone that has hung out in ICU,any day can be video'd as a horror show. I was unfortunate enough to sleep on a chair beside my wife for a few weeks in ICU....I won't forget the memory soon and video's of people suffering in ICU have no place here or anywhere....pandemic or not.


Female healthcare worker explained in tears the elderly are dying alone. You don't get to sit in a chair beside your wife/parents/grandparents. There is no space for that. There were beds lining the halls outside the ICU.

People breathing in bubbles side by side. They shift the beds around so they have space roll them over to relieve pressure points.

Then they showed the overwhelmed morque. The military comes in at night to take away the bodies and find a place to bury them because the cemeteries are overwhelmed. Funerals are banned now.

The health care workers only go home to sleep and they are recalling healthcare workers from retirement. Several who came out of retirement got infected and died.

Yea just another day in the ICU. We have less than a dozen in local ICU and they are already calling for PPE donations. Meanwhile locals go to Starbucks for their essential services.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

video should not have been banned

there was a photograph on twitter of the military convoy lined up in front of the morgue in Bergamo, northern Italy, to receive the coffins to take away for burial someplace else since the local cemetery was overwhelmed.

there were at least 30 trucks in that convey, waiting for the coffins.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Italy averaged 1765 deaths/day before the virus and amazingly no one felt the need to post. morbid videos of coffins & trucks.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

The thing is a significant portion of those who get sick, need hospitalization, and there is a serious risk of hospital overload.
The cruise ship was pretty much a best case scenario, everyone was under observation and had access to hospital, yet there were still deaths.

When care isn't available, those numbers will skyrocket.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> ... Wonder what the fatality rate would look like if we had to start pulling ventilators from the people on the ship due to lack of equipment/staff.


Did they put any ventilators onto cruise ships?

I thought that those testing positive were removed. It would be more like what was happening in the hospital.


Cheers


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Everyone is over reacting until the hospital is overwhelmed and then everyone is blamed for not preparing soon enough.

Average numbers don't tell the story when outbreaks have an epicenter. If an ICU is overwhelmed by a virus people will likely die for reasons not attributed to virus numbers

Some nearby islands are seeing increase of wealthy elderly looking for safe havens. Now they have community spread and EMT is pissed of the unnecessarily difficult strain this is about to cause


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

*everyone should stop for a moment to pay homage to Italy*

.

the degree of suffering italy has had to bear for many years now - through no fault of its own - has been extreme.

first the refugees. For many years italy took in the lion's share of refugees, mostly arriving by sea from north africa. This stepped up by several magnitudes after ISIL escalated the war in the middle east in 2015. 

in 2015, italian convents, congregations, entire villages & national gummint pitched in to take care of the neverending boatloads of refugees, most in precarious condition.

repeatedly italy asked other countries in the european union to physically accept their share of the refugee crowds that were overwhelming italy; yet no country responded.

today, italy has asked other countries for ventilators; but no country except china has responded. I did read somewhere that china has sent italy 200 ventilators.

undaunted, italy has assigned soldiers to work on the assembly lines at Shiare, italy's principal manufacturer of medical ventilators.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/wor...to-help-ramp-up-production-of-ventilators-as/


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Eder said:


> Italy averaged 1765 deaths/day before the virus and amazingly no one felt the need to post. morbid videos of coffins & trucks.


They had 793 deaths yesterday and the trend is still going up. If we assume they still have their normal 1765 deaths, then that means 31% of their daily deaths yesterday were from coronavirus. Or, put another way, a 45% increase in the death rate. And it's still increasing. I think that is noteworthy.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Most are in the north so if you broke it down to just the north the increase in death rate is well above 100%


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Deleted out of respect for Italians...not for sensationalist reporters.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I have been watching the US press conferences and Senate debates on CSPAN. Americans have got to get it together.

It is a clown show down there.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> It is a clown show down there.


US army started converting hotels into negative pressure ICUs in NYC

People are loading up on guns and running for the hills. Small communities are getting increasingly pissed with the influx because they don't have the medical infrastructure or supplies

Small counties around me are now ordering "shelter-in-place" instead of waiting for the state or fed


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> *everyone should stop for a moment to pay homage to Italy*
> 
> .
> 
> ...


Taking in hundreds of thousands/millions of unvetted migrants has ramifications as we're now seeing in Italy. Combine that with crowding, an aging population of heavy smokers, and often 3 generations living together and it's a recipe for disaster.

Hopefully lessons will be learned. Unfortunately, Trudeau still has no intention to stop the illegal border jumpers at Roxham.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump was complaining that Canada is refusing entry to migrants and returning them to the US. He talked about problems at both Northern and Southern borders.

Given what is going on in the US, and that Trump may re-open everything for business, maybe we should start building a wall. He can call it the Canada Wall.


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