# Debtors' prison



## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Companies are using state laws to send debtors to prison. See http://business.financialpost.com/2011/11/22/the-return-of-debtors-prisons/

Yep, people will be able to pay their debts so much more easily after they're in jail or have a prison record. LOL.

It's ironic since some businesses, esp. airlines, use bankruptcy as a business tool to renegotiate contracts or shed pension obligations.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Larry6417 said:


> Companies are using state laws to send debtors to prison. See http://business.financialpost.com/2011/11/22/the-return-of-debtors-prisons/
> 
> Yep, people will be able to pay their debts so much more easily after they're in jail or have a prison record. LOL.
> 
> It's ironic since some businesses, esp. airlines, use bankruptcy as a business tool to renegotiate contracts or shed pension obligations.


Well corporations have more protection to shed their debt obligations,
chapter 11 bankruptcy protection etc.

But individuals, well lets take Wesley Snipes (actor) as an example, who is now in federal prison for 3 years for income tax evasion. The ironic part
is that AMEX is suing him for a 30K unpaid CC bill! 
Kind of ironic because why would you pay any CC bills while serving a
prison sentence? 

I guess, in America, it doesn't matter if you are put in a federal debtors
prison for not paying your taxes, you can still get sued for any debts
outstanding to others. 

So the old debtors prison concept is coming back, in the US at least,
with the proliferation of credit card companies and people using multiple cards to run up the cards they have, before declaring bankruptcy.

I don't know if the debtor's prison concept is being practiced here in
Canada, though. If you owe tax money to CRA that you haven't declared
and want to come clean, you can hire a tax lawyer to negotiate better
terms for you with the CRA, and get off a lot lighter on taxes and any
late filing penalties, than if you were to do it on your own.

Because of lawyer-client privileges, any disclosures between you and your lawyer are protected by Canadian law from being disclosed to third parties.

Of course here in Canada, you could get a prison sentence for not filling
out the census form....maybe that's why Harper wants to build more
superjails..because of overcrowding? 

Heard on one of the TV networks the other day that there are drivers
out in Nova Scotia and other provinces, that have acquired huge unpaid traffic fines levied against them. One driver, (apparently) has run up a
total of $100k in unpaid fines and still caught on occasion driving..
even though legally he doesn't have a licence or get a renewal sticker 
on his car anymore. Go figure! 

Here in Ontario, they will deny you the renewal sticker if there are any
unpaid fines levied against you..but that probably doesn't stop that
type of driver, who more than likely. don't have any licence or insurance.
They just take a chance, until they get caught.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You can't go to jail for owing money in Canada, but you can go to jail for disobeying a court order.......like refusing to pay child support when you could afford to do so. Or, if you committed fraud in the acquisition of the debt, you could be criminally charged.

But for straight up honest debt, the worst that can happen is your credit gets trashed and you can't borrow anywhere, and you are beseiged with credit collection calls for years........and sometimes decades.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> You can't go to jail for owing money in Canada, but you can go to jail for disobeying a court order.......like refusing to pay child support when you could afford to do so. Or, if you committed fraud in the acquisition of the debt, you could be criminally charged.


Well it's nice to know that investment scam artists can still steal millions from
naive senior citizens and get away with it thanks to our gov't.
Most practically get away "scot free".

CTV (W5) has run some stories this year of scam artists either promising to invest your retirement nest egg to get greater returns on investment (10-20%) or offering to arrange financing for business ventures..if the applicant pays him a hefty fee up front...or even insurance (salesman) scam artists that
come to a widow's door, suggesting to the widow to invest the death
benefit with him, rather than put it in the bank, for a "greater return" on investment. Of course in all of these cases..the investors got badly burned and the money was never seen again..and those individuals still
continue doing whatever they are best at to this day..enjoying splitting
up the spoils amongst themselves like a bunch of jackals. 

These scam artist definitely could be filed under FRAUD...but of course,
unless you are defrauding the banks, lending institutions or the gov't, 
in most cases it's harder to prove the intentions..especially with the
investment fraud artists. 

Child support..yes..that is one exception, because the gov'ts don't want to
take on the burden of looking after dead beat dad's kids. ..you made 'em...
you help to pay for 'em....and don't expect any income tax breaks either!




> But for straight up honest debt, the worst that can happen is your credit gets trashed and you can't borrow anywhere, and you are beseiged with credit collection calls for years........and sometimes decades.


 My brother went through that. He had convenience store that he
was part owner with his wife and another partner that had gone bankrupt
running a grocery store business. It was a bad decision on my brother's
part to go into a partnership with this guy in the first place, as well as
going into business with the wife as a third partner that didn't put any
money into it. She convinced him to re-mortgage their mortgage free
house that my mother had helped to pay off and put all the loan money into the business.

For the first 3 years, the business ran reasonably well, but then the
partner started to mess things up for my brother..and my brother's wife decided to go into some kind of extra-marital affair with the partner..and stopped contributing her time spent at the store, because she was
too busy with "other things"....
and was secretly planning to leave him anyway.

My brother ran the store 24/7 (and even slept in the store), while the partner and wife did all the ordering...meanwhile, the unpaid bills and rent kept piling up, until the landlord and suppliers did a reality check on my brother, called the locksmith, and changed the locks on the store on him.

My brother who spend 4 or 5years of his life in that food emporium, had no choice being so far in debt, and had to abandon it as well as arrange for bankruptcy protection.

The double crossing partner and the double crossing ex-wife picked up the business for a few cents on the dollar after bankrupcty, and arranged for a new lease on the same premises. 

The double crossing wife also threw him out of the house, dumped his clothes in a box on the street, and did other nasty things like cancel his car lease, 
so theeasing company came and took his car away so he had no
method of transportation to pickup anything he needed at the store.
Suppliers stopped supplying too.

My brother, who had no place to go at that point, was fortunate enough to be taken in by my mother..where he still lives today.

Bankruptcy proceedings/divorce proceedings..and the bitterness that
lasts a lifetime followed him. He's learned a hard lesson in life. 
Now he has no interests in business.... or women for that matter.

In his case he was hounded by suppliers until he went to a bankruptcy
firm that sheltered him from all the nasty collection phone calls. 
I think he had to wait 7 years after the bankruptcy court finished with him,
before he was allowed any kind of credit, and to this day, he doesn't have or want a credit card...strictly on a cash or debit basis.


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