# When to change tires - rarely drive



## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

I drive 8000km/year and have separate summer tires and winter tires. so I drive only 4000km/year on each set of tires. It'll be a long time before the threads are worn out so I need to consider when to replace the tires. Do you think 7 years is a good time to buy new tires? I suspect the winter tires will last longer than summer tire because the lack of exposure to summer heat. 

I've read stories about people driving 10 years old tires and losing control of the cars: http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/how-old-and-dangerous-are-your-tires.html



Thanks!


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Tires have a production date on the sidewall of tire

Life of tire is 7 years,because of the rubber and environment

Lots of time when tires are on sale the tire is close to that date,when buying you can check the date

If tire is S rated (speed) I would not drive on highway at speed

I would check for cracking at sidewall close to the rim,if so,replace

Tire cracking will not pass a safety inspection


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Ditto, agree, especially if exposed to hot sun and ultraviolet rays. Maybe even less than 7 years in those conditions.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

+1 on above from 1980Z28 and AR. 

You're spot on namelessone. I'm in a similar situation with a couple of vehicles.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

1980z28 said:


> Tires have a production date on the sidewall of tire
> 
> Life of tire is 7 years,because of the rubber and environment
> 
> ...


Not sure I understood comment correctly, but 'S rated' is just one of a number of speed ratings a tire may have. S doesn't mean 'speed' in this context and is in fact quite a low speed rating. In other words, not a high speed tire.

A link to a table of various speed ratings is at bottom of this post. Tires with speed ratings (and load ratings which are a different thing) matching manufacturer's specifications should always be used. 

Some tire manufacturers suggest changing tires when 6 years old. This is what Michelin says. But those of us who don't drive our cars much may have hardly any tread wear after 6 years. So, some judgement is needed. I keep the tires on my older cars for much longer. But the cars are always garaged so don't see much UV degradation. I also don't tend to drive them at anywhere near the tires speed ratings. In unlikely event that a tire failed at low speed, it wouldn't likely be a problem. But if car is to be highway driven at speed limit, I would change the tires.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Fantastic tread! (that's a little tire joke)

Boy are the tires important. Considering that driving is the most dangerous thing you do on a daily basis, it's absolutely worth spending the money when needed.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I have worked as a mechanic for 38 years,have seen lots of tires(I know speed ratings)


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

I keep tires properly inflated car is in garage out of sun 99% of the time. Use Nitrogen so not exposed to oxygen inside the tire. Replace tires @ 10 year mark from manufactured date & or if tread is worn. Check for bulges (which would feel when driven) & cracking with quick visual but so far never been a problem.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We buy good quality tires. We rotate them every 12-15K. Use nitrogen and check the inflation often.

I think tires and taking care of your tires is extremely important. They are the only thing between me and the road.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

namelessone, you may want to consider all-weather tires next time you get a new set. They're meant to be a compromise between "all-season" and winter tires... they can be driven year-round and while not as good as winter tires, are better than all-seasons in cold temps, on snow and ice.

That's a judgment call on your part. You'd be giving up some of the benefit of winter tires to save some money long-term.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

That is precisely what I will do as well.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Barwelle said:


> namelessone, you may want to consider all-weather tires next time you get a new set. They're meant to be a compromise between "all-season" and winter tires... they can be driven year-round and while not as good as winter tires, are better than all-seasons in cold temps, on snow and ice.
> 
> That's a judgment call on your part. You'd be giving up some of the benefit of winter tires to save some money long-term.


Well, it depends on where in Canada the OP lives. If there is a lot of snow and ice during winter, it may not be worthwhile. Not to mention the fact that Quebec mandates winter tires, and most insurance companies do offer a discount when using winter tires.

That said, if you go that route and actually need winter tire performance in all-season tires, I would recommend the Nokian tires that are winter rated (have the snowflake). At such a low mileage of 8000 km for the year, I suspect that the tires should last a while.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

1980z28 said:


> I have worked as a mechanic for 38 years,have seen lots of tires(I know speed ratings)


and


> *If tire is S rated (speed) I would not drive on highway at speed*



That's a good thing if you are a mechanic 

Why I posted what I did, was because it appeared that you only would not drive at highway speed if tires were S rated. What about if they were T rated or H rated? Would that make a difference? 
My point was that you should use tires with the load & speed rating (whether it be S,T,H or whatever) that the manufacturer recommends. And then use judgement along lines of Michelin' recommendation when they get to 5 or 6 years old.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Barwelle said:


> namelessone, you may want to consider all-weather tires next time you get a new set. They're meant to be a compromise between "all-season" and winter tires... they can be driven year-round and while not as good as winter tires, are better than all-seasons in cold temps, on snow and ice.
> 
> That's a judgment call on your part. You'd be giving up some of the benefit of winter tires to save some money long-term.


Good suggestion. Next time I buy tires for a car that we drive in winter, I will be looking for All-weathers. Unfortunately, the term is not very clear and often mis-understood. And only a very few tire brands have such tires and only in some sizes. THis company has a write-up on all-weather tires. All weather tires do have the snowflake emblem and are permitted, even in Quebec.

I am surprised that some here use nitrogen for inflation. Do you have a supply of nitrogen at home? If not, how do you adjust tire pressure before heading out if your tires are low? And what do you do about the oxygen on the outside of the tires? Forget I asked. This has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

I heard that Calgary police does not use winter tires but they are most of the times on street. I do not understand if the police officer does not need to use winter tires, why we need to use it. However, I purchased four Weathermate winter tires (around $165) from Walamart last year. So far, it's good.

In 2009, I paid around $650 for four Michelin Primacy mxv4 all season tires at Costco. I drove around 68k and I might drive another 5k this summer but the tires are not in good condition. I purchased four Weathermaxx all season tires on last Friday and paid $223. It will cost another $50 to install it. Let's see which one is better in terms of mileage.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

scorpion_ca said:


> I heard that Calgary police does not use winter tires but they are most of the times on street. I do not understand if the police officer does not need to use winter tires, why we need to use it.


I recall this debate being had in Edmonton a few years ago, and the reason was cost - there wasn't room in the EPS budget to have two sets of tires, and change them out 2x a year, for every police vehicle.

A quick google search finds that they switched to all-weather tires in 2011 so that takes the cost of changing them out of the equation.

I remember seeing an Alberta Sheriff cruiser with winter or all-weather tires.

Maybe the Calgary police service doesn't use winter tires because of global warming.... err, I mean, chinooks. :stupid:


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## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Fantastic tread! (that's a little tire joke)
> 
> Boy are the tires important. Considering that driving is the most dangerous thing you do on a daily basis, it's absolutely worth spending the money when needed.



I just noticed I wrote: threads. For a long time, I thought it's thread but it's tread. LOL. English is my second language


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## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

Barwelle said:


> namelessone, you may want to consider all-weather tires next time you get a new set. They're meant to be a compromise between "all-season" and winter tires... they can be driven year-round and while not as good as winter tires, are better than all-seasons in cold temps, on snow and ice.
> 
> That's a judgment call on your part. You'd be giving up some of the benefit of winter tires to save some money long-term.


Excellent suggestion. All weather tire is something new to me. That's what I'll get next time. Currently, I have X-ice Xi 3 winter tires. I wonder how Nokian all weather tires perform compared to Xi 3.
Another benefit is that there's no need to change tires twice a year! It's a big hassle.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

namelessone said:


> Excellent suggestion. All weather tire is something new to me. That's what I'll get next time. Currently, I have X-ice Xi 3 winter tires. I wonder how Nokian all weather tires perform compared to Xi 3.
> Another benefit is that there's no need to change tires twice a year! It's a big hassle.


Not having to change tires is a benefit, but wonder how well those all-weather tires wear when used year round? I suspect not as well as all-season tires. I haven't looked up the data, but tire manufacturers do quote wear information. Anyone researched that?


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## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

agent99 said:


> Not having to change tires is a benefit, but wonder how well those all-weather tires wear when used year round? I suspect not as well as all-season tires. I haven't looked up the data, but tire manufacturers do quote wear information. Anyone researched that?


Around 60k km: http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=75682.0


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

You are correct. Calgary Police Service vehicles use all weather tires. They do not change over to snow tires in winter.

Neither do we-especially since we have been retired and try to get out of Dodge for the winter.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

namelessone said:


> Around 60k km: http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=75682.0


Problem with those figures, is that tires nearing end of life would not have much tread left and probably not make very good winter tires.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

agent99 said:


> what do you do about the oxygen on the outside of the tires?


 Concentration level of oxygen is lower on the outside of the tire compared to the inside of the tire less oxygen less effect


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I live in Montreal and the provincial law obliges winter tires between Dec 15 and March 15. I am sort of glad the law exists because it has improved the overall traffic in the city. I am a firm believer in winter tires and have used them before the law existed. The softer compound provides a much better traction than an all season tire. The cost is not that much more since you use each set of tires twice as long. On one of my cars, the winter tires are on their 9th winter (will be the last) and the traction is still better than an all season tire. The trick with winter tires is to put them on late (end of Nov) and remove them early (end of March). Temperature is what makes the difference. Once temp outside reaches 10 degrees and higher, the rubber on winter tires starts to wear out very fast.


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## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

agent99 said:


> Problem with those figures, is that tires nearing end of life would not have much tread left and probably not make very good winter tires.


Good point. We need margin of safety. 
I drive 8000km/year and next plan is to drive a 3 years old car for up to 10 years. Using one set of all weather tires for 10 years is not safe. Using 1 set of all season and 1 set of winter tires for 10 years presents the same problem. I think I'll do this: use only all weather tires but replace them at 5 years. That's only 40k km for me. I think there's a satisfatory markgin of safety. Cost wise, it's won't make a huge difference but save me lifting 4 SUV tires on the rim from and back to basement twice a year.


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## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

Mortgage u/w said:


> I live in Montreal and the provincial law obliges winter tires between Dec 15 and March 15. I am sort of glad the law exists because it has improved the overall traffic in the city. I am a firm believer in winter tires and have used them before the law existed. The softer compound provides a much better traction than an all season tire. The cost is not that much more since you use each set of tires twice as long. On one of my cars, the winter tires are on their 9th winter (will be the last) and the traction is still better than an all season tire. The trick with winter tires is to put them on late (end of Nov) and remove them early (end of March). Temperature is what makes the difference. Once temp outside reaches 10 degrees and higher, the rubber on winter tires starts to wear out very fast.


All weather tires are different than all season tires. All weather tires are certified for winter driving with snow.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

lonewolf said:


> Concentration level of oxygen is lower on the outside of the tire compared to the inside of the tire less oxygen less effect


Different kind of air inside tires compared with outside??


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

agent99 said:


> Different kind of air inside tires compared with outside??


 Higher air presser = higher level of air within a given volume.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

namelessone said:


> All weather tires are different than all season tires. All weather tires are certified for winter driving with snow.


that will never match the performance of a winter tire. I wouldn't trust those tires for winter driving. Then again, all depends your type of winters.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

lonewolf said:


> Higher air presser = higher level of air within a given volume.


No doubt here is more oxygen (and nitrogen and water vapour) inside a tire when inflated than when it is at atmospheric pressure, but concentrations are the same.

For passenger cars, by far most important thing, is to keep tires at the pressures that are posted inside your gas cap (not the ones on the sidewall). You can buy a home compressor and do this on regular basis. Or you can drive to service station. Either way you get air. 

Main reason to use nitrogen is because it is available DRY in cylinders. Water vapour in air (or nitrogen) causes largest fluctuation in tire pressure. 

If you want to waste money and use nitrogen, look at how they fill your tires. The tires start off filled with air. Then they pump nitrogen in through the valve. What happens to the oxygen that is already in the deflated tire? Some shops may flush the tire several times to eliminate as much oxygen as possible, but many will not. It's really just a way for shops to collect a little more of your hard earned $$$. 

Racing cars and aircraft use nitrogen, but passenger cars don't need it! I would use dry nitrogen if it was available everywhere. But otherwise, just keep tires properly inflated with air using car manufacturers numbers for pressure and temperature and expected load.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Atmospheric air contains 78% nitrogen and 20% oxygen and a few % of other gasses. Whether you compress it into a tire or whatever, the concentrations don't change with pressure changes (remember PV=nRT from high school). I used to fill using only nitrogen but I didn't find it made much difference in losing air when it got cold (which was supposed to be the benefit) and occasionally I had to refill when it got really cold anyway so went back to using the garage air compressor to top up when required. I think Nitrogen filling is a gimmick too to separate you and your money but everyone has their opinion. I use summer and winter tires too mounted on their own rims to avoid yet another cost and change them myself. Yes nitrogen is an inert gas but I have never really heard of tire degradation from the inside (maybe I live a sheltered life) - only from UV rays and ozone from the outside - and usage.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Brian K said:


> Atmospheric air contains 78% nitrogen and 20% oxygen and a few % of other gasses. Whether you compress it into a tire or whatever, the concentrations don't change with pressure changes (remember PV=nRT from high school). I used to fill using only nitrogen but I didn't find it made much difference in losing air when it got cold (which was supposed to be the benefit) and occasionally I had to refill when it got really cold anyway so went back to using the garage air compressor to top up when required. I think Nitrogen filling is a gimmick too to separate you and your money but everyone has their opinion. I use summer and winter tires too mounted on their own rims to avoid yet another cost and change them myself. Yes nitrogen is an inter gas but I have never really heard of tire degradation from the inside (maybe I live a sheltered life) - only from UV rays and ozone from the outside - and usage.


You are right, but hard to convince many. Seeing this is the frugal thread, can't understand why some part with their money for something that provides no obvious benefit.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

This was the first year I've noticed a decrease in performance with my dedicated winter tires (Michelin X-Ice). I also don't drive much...my 2007 Subaru only has 85,000 kms, with about 35k on the winter tires. They have plenty of tread left, but, they're now at least 9 or more likely 10 years old, depending on when they were made. I'll finish the season with them, but will be replacing them by next fall.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Same reason people waste money on hot water tank rentals - the call it "Peace of Mind" and that seems to justify the expense.


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