# Ontario schools sex ed - warning for parents



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Some changes have been announced to the Ontario public schools sexual education curriculum
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/new-ontario-sex-ed-curriculum-ready-for-september-1.2967315

My post is directed at those of you who have school age sons.

One of the focus areas of the new curriculum is an emphasis on "consent". Children are now going to start hearing, from a young age, that explicit consent and invitation is necessary before initiating any kind of sexual activity or touching. On the surface this sounds perfectly reasonable. Of course there _should_ always be consent and mutual willingness.

However -- as is already the case in many schools -- this will be presented in a comical way. Boys will be taught that they should ovirtly ask before doing anything with a girl. For instance, boys should ask permission before so much as kissing a girl or touching her hand.

If you have a son, *especially a mild or well-behaved son*, be careful that he doesn't take this curriculum too literally. When you watch romantic movies that are popular with women, how many times do men meekly ask "may I kiss you?" before acting? The public schools are indoctrinating young men with behaviors that make them entirely unattractive to women (both young and old).

I am sharing this out of personal experience. As a polite and well behaved young man, I foolishly learned and obeyed these rules of ultra-cautiousness towards women. As a result, I missed out on opportunities with girls. Is this what you want for your son? The same girls I missed out on chose to date plenty of bolder, more forward guys (of course). By the time I realized I had been a fool for believing the sex ed agenda, I was well into my 20s.

These days I understand the dynamics much better. Women, almost universally, prefer confident, gentlemanly-but-forward, and somewhat bold men. This has been true in every country I've lived in. The school curriculum would lead an impressionable young man to believe something totally different. Don't let your son become a sucker, like I was in my teenage years.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I also had the same experience and enlightenment.

Take the red pill.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I have had relations with many girls/women dating way back to junior high(delicate flower would not be the words i would use lol)
Why the notion that men are the horny one's jacked on testosterone and women are these 'innocent' flowers is beyond me
My advice would be don't follow anything being taught and certainly don't follow the wussy crap out of hollywood
Women love a challenge James and they are like dogs(dogs can smell fear)if you are deep down not confident you can't fake it
My thoughts anyways----they got that six sense
Women esp young women always love the bad boy/player that could give a ****(extra points if her parents don't like him either)lol
If i had a son i would drill it in his head that he is a catch and the women should work hard for him!otherwise forget it,unless he is just having a good time and not wanting a relationship........emotionally dangerous to put any women above one's self


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

donald said:


> If i had a son i would drill it in his head that he is a catch and the women should work hard for him!otherwise forget it,unless he is just having a good time and not wanting a relationship........emotionally dangerous to put any women above one's self


My kids are married with children of their own. In my school days, there was none of this "s*x" education taught in the primary schools. You were considered "too young" in grade school to learn about "the bird and bees" and human behaviour when it comes to the opposite s*x. When it came to school yard bullying abuse, we may have just called each other a few names..and perhaps settled it with fisticuffs...
... in some cases (from a young boy's perspective). 


We learned about "it" the same way as most generations before us, (and maybe a few after us) ...
...before this age of "enlightenment."

It seems that now, with the onset of the "social media generation", and the availability of the 'family plan" smart phones is resulting in lot more of various abuses that can happen between kids of this school age generation, it has pushed the new generation "over the edge" of human sexuality, and we are starting to see the dark side of that coming in very strong where our school system has to "over react", thinking that this is becoming an "epidemic".

Cyberbulling and "Sexting" seems to be more an more prevalent these days..it's sad that it is coming to this,
but being old school, I always thought that the s*x education should have been done at home...not in the classrooms as it will be done now in future generations.

Texting while driving has replaced DUI as the cause of some car accidents. 
It has become so prevalent in most cities now, that the police are installing plains clothes cops on some 
key intersections to observe what the drivers are doing in their cars....and handing out tickets with stiff fines on the spot, if the driver is caught taking his eyes off the intersection lights and hands of the wheel, while looking down at his smart phone.

I recently saw a ad on TV, a view from inside a car, where the driver is texting while their car is
still moving up to a stopped car in front...and then there is an audible "crash" (rear ended),
and the screen goes black at the end of the ad.

I guess this will be now replacing the MADD TV ad with the 4 or 5 glasses of beer being clinked against other, and an "out of focus "windshield perception of the road ahead, followed by loud screeching of tires sound, and a "BANG!" ...as the driver collides with something. 


The age of... BIG BROTHER WATCHING..has now certainly arrived! 

As Bob Dylan once sang.."The times they are "a-changing"...and the "Five Man Electrical Band"
singing in their hit of the 60s "Signs"..."do this, don't do that..can't you read the signs?":biggrin:


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

Teaching about consent is about protecting your daughters from other people's sons. Rape and date rape are still real problems. Your sons may "lose opportunities", but your daughters may lose their self-worth, their health, their lives. I think that is the bigger concern.

In the 1970s and 1980s when we were growing up, no one was concerned about someone slipping a roofie into your drink (Google it if you don't know) because they didn't exist. As carverman points out, there was a whole world of cellphone and internet sex that we didn't have to worry about.

some parents believe that they are able to keep up with all of these technological, pharmaceutical and social changes and teach their kids to take care themselves. Good for them. But their kids are going to school with, hanging out with, and going to parties with other kids whose parents may not be so well equipped to deal with these issues. I think they should want to make sure that their kids' friends and classmates are educated on these matters.

The countries that are most advanced in sx education, like the Netherlands, have the lowest teen pregnancy rates. The US, where sx education is often limited to teaching abstinence, leads the league in teen pregnancies.

In the age of AIDS, and drugs and the Internet, keeping kids in the dark puts them at risk. Knowledge is power.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Davis said:


> In the age of AIDS, and drugs and the Internet, *keeping kids in the dark puts them at risk. Knowledge is power.*


That's all there is to it, we live in an information age! 

It's certainly sad [despairing for some] all that children need to absorb at relatively young ages, but there is no choice given the times, and parents need to take an active role in the education that should continue at home [but that often does not happen].

Nearly 2 decades to update such a curriculum [1998/Sept.2015] was simply too long already. 

'The revision of the Health and Physical Education curriculum is the result of work done through the curriculum consultation, which began in 2007. *The review was the most extensive curriculum consultation process ever undertaken by the ministry* and involved parents, students, teachers, faculties of education, universities, colleges and numerous stakeholder groups including the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, The Ontario Public Health Association and the Ontario Healthy Schools Coalition. More than 70 health-related organizations submitted reports for consideration and thousands of people provided feedback.'
http://news.ontario.ca/edu/en/2015/...al-education-curriculum-parent-resources.html

*J4B:* Many people are plain shy/self-conscious/polite, which is perfectly normal. Others may suffer from more severe social awkwardness & phobias, but these can occur for a myriad of reasons, probably the most common being the heritable type.

I would not jump to conclusions to blame your nerves/anticipation fears [of what response u would get from girls], etc., on the 'ultra-cautious sex agenda' of your time.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

^ smrt


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Since we are having a frank discussion on the issue............

I hope that the curriculum will include young girls/women having respect for themselves as well as the consent issues.

Today, many young women have a rather unwholesome view of relationships.

I am not sure boys/men have changed attitudes as much as girls/women have over the years.

It seems to me that females have adopted a more "savoir faire" attitude towards sex and relationships.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Dame Edna discusses bullying and sex............and towards the end of the video.........vajazzilling ?


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## chantl01 (Mar 17, 2011)

Speaking from the female perspective, I've had experience with the spectrum of male approaches. From a guy who so confidently thought he could kiss me, uninvited, and then believed that should and would lead to further sexual interaction until I literally had to threaten to yell for help to get him to back off (and thank god I was in a location within hearing range of many other people) through to a man who politely asked if he could kiss me, even though the chemistry between us was palpable. The first one resulted in me warning every mutual female acquaintance we had to beware the danger posed by this lech. The latter one I married. 

I believe the updated sex ed curriculum is long overdue, and talking about issues like consent will make students of both genders more aware of their own rights and responsibilities. I applaud the initiative.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm not saying teaching "consent" is a bad idea. I think these are great things to teach. I'm just cautioning that some boys might walk away with the wrong idea after this kind of education and I encourage parents to stay actively involved, so that they are aware of the message their kids are hearing at school.



> The first one resulted in me warning every mutual female acquaintance we had to beware the danger posed by this lech. The latter one I married.


I would argue that the first guy (who behaved inappropriately and without concern for your wants) would do the same even if the school curriculum taught him it was bad. It's not like they're going to shift the school curriculum, and suddenly nobody will be committing date-rape any more. Men who just don't care about this stuff are going to do the same things anyway.

On the other hand, the guy you married was polite with you and probably _did pay attention_ to those kinds of messages from school. If messages from school had made him overly polite or overly cautious, he may have never pursued you out of fear of crossing unwelcome boundaries. You may have never married him and you would be missing out now.

Consider if the man you married had not received a no-means-no/ask-for-consent education in school. Do you think void of this direction, he would be going around groping women and forcing sex on victims? Obviously not. He's not the kind of guy that would do these things.

Do you see what I'm saying? The bad guys won't follow the rules anyway, and will still be dangerous to women. The good guys do follow the rules and the modern agenda makes them less successful and less desirable to women. This is not in the best interest of women at all. If anything, I think it means your daughters will inevitably end up dating (and being abused by) more bad characters. Girls won't be attracted to overly-polite "good" boys who are products of the feminist school system, and the aggressive "bad" men who swoop in will look far more attractive to your daughters.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I wouldn't be concerned about the school teachings in this matter, they'll have little to no effect IMO. The kids will be who they are and guidelines set out by the school will basically be ignored. And as far as outright asking for consent as in, "may I hold your hand?" etc ... I really don't see any point of doing that.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Do you see what I'm saying? The bad guys won't follow the rules anyway, and will still be dangerous to women. The good guys do follow the rules and the modern agenda makes them less successful and less desirable to women.


Obviously you believe this, but I think all kids take sex education with a grain of salt. When I was in high school, we all knew that sex education was a required course, and most of us figured we weren't going to learn anything we didn't already know since sex education happened in junior or senior year and by then there were very few virgins left in class anyway. I don't know many "good guys" who follow recommendations literally. Anyone with even a modicum of intelligence can figure out how to fulfill the requirement of ensuring consent without following awkward or overly formal protocols recommended in sex-education classes.

I find your statement "products of the feminist school system" offensive. The school system isn't "feminist," it's merely acknowledging the need to educate young men about the need to treat women as human beings rather than objects. How is that "feminist?"


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

James: if education doesn't influence children, then what is the point of it? Of course kids don't believe or do all of the things they are taught. But some or many do go to school to learn, and if they learn how to treat each other with respect, then some good will have been achieved. Will it end rape? Of course not. But it may _reduce_ rape, which would be a good thing.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> I hope that the curriculum will include young girls/women having respect for themselves as well as the consent issues.
> 
> Today, many young women have a rather unwholesome view of relationships.


You mean indoctrinate them with your personal beliefs and values? I think that should be left to the families or Sunday schooling. Public schooling should include the facts and risks of sexual relationships. Your judgement of these unwholesome women might be considered modern day equality to others.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

it seems to me that men who are sensitive (by virtue of innate "talent" or social conditioning) to the effect they are having on women (for good or ill) probably don't need to be told to ask for consent, by which i mean they will know from the signals the woman is sending whether of not they should lean in for a kiss

there are plenty of well meaning men who just are not good at reading signals or who are shy or awkward and end up doing the wrong thing even though they mean well toward the woman they are with

i do agree that it will be a buzzkill if the effect of the instruction is to send out a robot army of young men who are always asking their women 
"may i touch you now" or "may i kiss you now" ... that will not fly with most women who want men to know how to read the signals, not to constantly ask permission ... 

i learned this from the covers of all those romance novels :biggrin:

maybe the instruction should be less about consent and more about teaching young men to understand how and why women send the signals they do and what women might want in return

or ... maybe women should start sweeping *us* off *our* feet :biggrin:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> You mean indoctrinate them with your personal beliefs and values? I think that should be left to the families or Sunday schooling. Public schooling should include the facts and risks of sexual relationships. Your judgement of these unwholesome women might be considered modern day equality to others.


If the clinical details are all that are necessary...........just hand them a diagram.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

all so complicated. Girls don't have to ask guys for any permission?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

sags said:


> If the clinical details are all that are necessary...........just hand them a diagram/Dame Edna discusses bullying and sex.


In that case, your previous post should have made mention of boys/young men, too! 

Btw, Dame Edna is coming to Toronto in April for the 'Dame Edna's Glorious Goodbye - The Farewell Tour'


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

hystat said:


> all so complicated. Girls don't have to ask guys for any permission?


According to the curriculum, both "people" need to say yes. Silence does not count










Obviously it needs to be explicitly taught that silence does not imply consent when someone is intoxicated or unconscious, but otherwise reading body language is far more realistic than constantly asking for verbal consent. It seems like a loud minority are pushing theories that do not work in practice and that the majority think is a farce. Why are so many women into 50 shades of gray?

The rest of the curriculum looks light years ahead of what it used to be.


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## chantl01 (Mar 17, 2011)

Davis said:


> James: if education doesn't influence children, then what is the point of it? Of course kids don't believe or do all of the things they are taught. But some or many do go to school to learn, and if they learn how to treat each other with respect, then some good will have been achieved. Will it end rape? Of course not. But it may _reduce_ rape, which would be a good thing.


+1

I actually believe that much of what is taught in school does influence the student's behaviour in later life. There are a lot more life lessons than reading, writing and arithmetic ingrained during one's school years. That's why schools are now actively addressing the bullying issue.


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