# Most Spendthrifty Thing You've Ever Done



## brad (May 22, 2009)

Okay, in response to humble's challenge, let's list our biggest splurges.

I actually just came off the biggest spending spree I've had in years, but none of it was particularly exciting (e.g., new toilet, new desk for the office, iPad, new bicycle...the only drag was that it was all in one month so I spent $7,000 in March).

I think the biggest real splurge I did was when I was working for a publishing firm that had profit-sharing, and my boss told me I'd just received a $2,000 bonus. We decided to spend it on a weekend at a spa. Hard for me to imagine blowing $2,000 in a weekend (I know some people do it on a single meal, but that's a different world), but we managed to find a way.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

By splurge, I guess that excludes cars and houses? 

After that stuff, most of what I spend is small potatoes. $1300 here and there for a vacation every 1-2 years, that's about it. Most of the non-essential hobby items I buy rarely exceed $250 and are mostly $110 or less. And those only happen a few times a year.

Glad to see brad is keeping the economy moving with his splurges though haha.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Glad to see brad is keeping the economy moving with his splurges though haha.


They're very infrequent, though. I think what happens is that I hold back for 5 or 6 years and then spend a whole bunch of money; the shock of it then causes me to slip back into frugality for another 5 years by which time I'm feeling deprived again.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Maybe not all in one go...

But over the past few years, I've accumulated about $7000-$9000 worth of camera gear ($7k is what I tell my wife, $8k is what I tell myself when I feel guilty, and well, the last number )

It all great deals, I almost always buy second hand, either through Kijiji, or from the States.

Other that that... the only thing we 'blow' our money on is mortgage prepayments, and lump-sum investments.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i bet the new bike is one mean machine.

myself i won't forget the 1k or so i spent for an exquisite watered-silk silvery-blue tea gown for my mother, when she was quite frail. It had amber-and-honey-coloured leaves floating here & there, so the effect was floor-length japanese kimono. She was tall & proud, with white hair. Gone now, but she looked magnificent in it.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> i bet the new bike is one mean machine.


I don't know what kind of bike brad has, but going rate for a good mountain bike these days is close to that.

I remember a time as a student where my friend's bikes were worth more than I. At the time, I even had an old Subaru, but his 3 bikes were easily worth $15-$20k.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> i bet the new bike is one mean machine.


It's my new city bike, it's excellent but cost less than $1,000. I learned my lesson after buying a couple of cheap bikes that didn't last (cheap bikes usually have cheap wheels and hubs, and it costs almost as much to have good new wheels built as it would cost to buy a new bike). It's a fine line between spending enough to get a bike that will last and spending too much on something that's more likely to get stolen. 

The $1K for your mother's gown sounds like money well spent.


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

Not including car, condo and utilitarian things like two more storage lockers:

Biggest splurge was many years ago shortly after I started working nearly 20 years ago. I bought an $8000+ computer. Biggest splurge in the past seven years is a HDTV CRT for $4800.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I use to buy 5000 speakers or $3000 receivers too often to admit, no longer.

I bought a car on a whim last year, we didn't really need it, intent was to resell it but can't bring myself to.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> Okay, in response to humble's challenge, let's list our biggest splurges.
> 
> I actually just came off the biggest spending spree I've had in years, but none of it was particularly exciting..


SNIP! SNIP! CUT! cut!.....

Hmmph! I n't this rather counter productive to the nature of this forum?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

carverman said:


> SNIP! SNIP! CUT! cut!.....
> 
> Hmmph! I n't this rather counter productive to the nature of this forum?


I actually see myself as a generally frugal person, but I do let myself go once in a while and I think that's healthy. And I save up for these spending sprees; I don't go into debt for them. I haven't carried a balance on my credit card in nearly 10 years now.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> i bet the new bike is one mean machine.
> 
> myself i won't forget the 1k or so i spent for an exquisite watered-silk silvery-blue tea gown for my mother, when she was quite frail. It had amber-and-honey-coloured leaves floating here & there, so the effect was floor-length japanese kimono. She was tall & proud, with white hair. Gone now, but she looked magnificent in it.


You do have a heart  I hope you got to take many photos of your mom wearing it .That is very sweet and money well spent .


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

The first big thing i bought for myself was in 2001 I bought a Chaise lounge at Lazboy ,it was $2490 + tax even with the discount.I am happy to say in 2011 it looks like day I bought it and I enjoy it very much.I knew when I bought it that it will out live me so I went with Neutral Solid Fabric knowing I can buy new pillow for it every few years.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

As I've said, I'm kind of extreme in my frugality and spending... I'm can be really frugal, in order to offset my spendthriftyness 

Many, (not all) of these were when I was younger, and has less responsibilities (aka kids)

- When looking for an imitation designer purse in NYC, when that wasn't successful, I went to the actual designer boutique and spent a couple of thousand $ for a purse
- Did the same thing as Tiffanies for a some jewerly, actually on the same weekend
- Had a family dinner at the Ritz Carleton in CA at the chefs table, and the adults had a crazy expensive chefs meal (I think it was $250 plus wine each adult) and ordered lobster pizzas for the kids (that's what they wanted)
- Took my two best friends out as a celebration for helping me get through a bad breakup, dinner was over $600 (that was 15 years ago)
- Can't describe how many pairs of shoes and purses I have (many were on sale)
- Bought a 1/2 case of wine at $250 a bottle
- Take our parents on a cruise (both sides, different times)
- Sent my parents away on a trip, and refurnish my parents house with all new appliances and furniture

- I think most of most expensive things were really expensive meals. We still do that on occasion when we are with the rest of my family, but not very often with the kids now. Many of these really extravagent things we do with our parents, as they would not spend it themselves. 

This is where I have said many times, I should have been smarter with my money when I was younger, other than some of the memories, most of those things don't mean much to me now.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> The first big thing i bought for myself was in 2001 I bought a Chaise lounge at Lazboy ,it was $2490 + tax even with the discount.I am happy to say in 2011 it looks like day I bought it and I enjoy it very much.I knew when I bought it that it will out live me so I went with Neutral Solid Fabric knowing I can buy new pillow for it every few years.


I'm a "material girl" living in a material world......


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> As I've said, I'm kind of extreme in my frugality and spending... I'm can be really frugal, in order to offset my spendthriftyness
> 
> - Bought a 1/2 case of wine at *$250 a bottle*


OK THAT did it for me...

Personally, tasting wine is all in your head..the only difference between a 
good bottle of California's (or Niagara's) exclusive vintages at say $10 a bottle and a overpriced $250 bottle of wine..is the label and maybe the
bottle's shape.

[QUOTE}
.... most of those things don't mean much to me now.[/QUOTE]

Isn't always the way. That night of reckless spending/passions is a distant
memory to be forgotten if it happened to be with your ex. 
But if human nature has it's way..we live for today and not tomorrow..

Now here's a thought to tickle your fancy..and in keeping with this thread.
*Marina will kick in..I'm sure...*

IF you happen to win big with that Lottery ticket,.that you weren't sure you were
going to buy..because your so damn frugal (wink!) ..and WON a million or more...
what would YOU do???
pinch pennies and freeze bags of chicken in the freezer
or
go out and buy that $50,000 diamond ring..because:
a) you gots the money now..
b) you may not live long enough to spend it in the years left
c) it looks good on you
d) your close friends will be so envious
e) you can throw out all thoughts of being frugal Out the window!


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## Rico (Jan 27, 2011)

About 4 years ago my wife and I took a 30-day trip across Canada and the USA. While I used some Airmiles and coupons, and stayed with family where possible, the trip cost about $10,000 all told. We used trains, planes, and automobiles; it was very memorable and I don't regret it (except maybe the 3-day via rail trip from Edmonton to Toronto in the cheap seats . . . 7 hours late by the end I might add).

On a side note, I'm currently in graduate school studying counselling psychology and I saw an interesting article a few months back about satisfaction of spending money on "things" versus "experiences". According to the researchers, most people rated being more satisfied having spent their money on experiences over 'things' (when asked much later from when the money was spent).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> I actually see myself as a generally frugal person, but I do let myself go once in a while and I think that's healthy. And I save up for these spending sprees; I don't go into debt for them. I haven't carried a balance on my credit card in nearly 10 years now.


Bonus frugal points -> Brad


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rico said:


> About 4 years ago my wife and I took a 30-day trip across Canada and the USA. While I used some Airmiles and coupons, and stayed with family where possible, the trip cost about $10,000 all told. We used *trains, planes, and automobiles; *it was very memorable and I don't regret it (except maybe the 3-day via rail trip from Edmonton to Toronto in the cheap seats . . . 7 hours late by the end I might add).


Saw the movie too..John Candy was hilarious.I really miss him on Uncle
Buck and remember him as johnny laRue on Second City..
"pttuii! Gypsys..I hate Gypsys! " (Johnny Larue said that..not me,btw)

the train...
been there, done that and maybe got the t-shirt..been so long, I can't 
remember..it was in '67 (Centennial year) and I wanted to take the train
to Vancouver and see the Rockies too...too cheap (& frugal!!!) to buy a 
berth..sleep in the train seat for 3 nights and 3 days..and when I arrive
in Vancouver..it felt more like 40 days..but it only cost me $40 for the
seat then..and no gst or hst!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ack!..something about thinking inside the box and square pegs don't always fit into round holes..unless
you use a sledgehammer!


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Sleeping in a seat for 3 nights to save a few pennies isn't really what I consider frugal. Frugality in that case is opting for a berth instead of the private bedroom. You need to rest your body properly after a fun-filled day aboard the train. That would be like sleeping in your car to save on hotels, drinking water to save on meals etc. That's more like cruel and unusual punishment and goes way beyond simple frugality. No thanks.


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## Rico (Jan 27, 2011)

carverman said:


> Saw the movie too..John Candy was hilarious.I really miss him on Uncle
> Buck and remember him as johnny laRue on Second City..
> "pttuii! Gypsys..I hate Gypsys! " (Johnny Larue said that..not me,btw)
> 
> ...


Haha, Uncle Buck . . . still one of my favourite movies of all time: "Take this quarter, go downtown, and have a rat gnaw that thing off your face!" lol


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## Rico (Jan 27, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> Sleeping in a seat for 3 nights to save a few pennies isn't really what I consider frugal. Frugality in that case is opting for a berth instead of the private bedroom. You need to rest your body properly after a fun-filled day aboard the train. That would be like sleeping in your car to save on hotels, drinking water to save on meals etc. That's more like cruel and unusual punishment and goes way beyond simple frugality. No thanks.


Having never ridden the train before I didn't know better. Plus, the cost difference was in the hundreds of dollars range. I rationalized it with "oh, it's at the start of the trip so it won't be so bad". Haha, yeah right.

Here's the kicker: they gave me $900 in credits for being 7 hours late. I thought maybe my wife and I could go to Vancouver from Edmonton and use the berths this time. Cost = $1160 ONE WAY (less $900 credit) , 24 hour trip. I'm thinking "no".


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

carverman said:


> Personally, tasting wine is all in your head..the only difference between a
> good bottle of California's (or Niagara's) exclusive vintages at say $10 a bottle and a overpriced $250 bottle of wine..is the label and maybe the
> bottle's shape.


No, that's not true, but I do think there's a much bigger difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle of wine than there is between a $30 bottle of wine and a $250 bottle of wine.

You can find some good wines for $10-$15/bottle, but your odds are much better between $20 and $30. I've tried some very expensive wines (not bought by me) and the differences between the most expensive wines and those that cost $30 or $40 can be very subtle.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I just got back from 10 days in the Caribbean and we ordered a bottle of $94 wine ,tasted badly and we immediately ordered a coke each.I think you have to drink quite a bit of wine to appreciate it.I do like Ice Wine and we usually buy a few bottles at Xmas


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

see how lively everybody becomes when talking about the memorable expenditures.

biking ... nookie in showers ... finger exercises to support digits encrusted with blazing jewels ... tiny kids ordering lobster in 5-star restaurants ... wine @ 250 is not even un grand cru classé at today's prices ... premier ne puis, seconde je deigne, cmf je reste ... board lights up ... colours come alive ... can't you hear the harley calling ...

pls no more, at least for a while, about cleaning w vinegared water in old windex bots.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Like $50K doing up cars. Nothing to show for it today, except a custom licence plate I paid over $200 for.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Jungle said:


> ...custom licence plate I paid over $200 for.


Which is worth between two and five dollars in the collector market today.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My mom is 72 years old and born on a island with no electricity ,they had to boil water to get a bath and made their own soap.They had a wood strove to keep the house warm and at night everyone got a junk of wood from the oven and wrapped in a towel and took it to bed with them to keep warm .My mom would not do some of these things posted here .She reuses her bounce sheets but doubt they ever shared the shower, I shower with my husband often but we are never thinking about saving money when doing it lol.We have done it to save TIME a couple times or at a hotel one time where there was no heat and very little running water ,it was so tiny we washed each other , he held the soap i had the facecloth ,forget dropping the soap as you would have to get out of shower to get it lol.It was literally a 2ftx2ft shower ,fun times!


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

carverman said:


> OK THAT did it for me...
> 
> Personally, tasting wine is all in your head..the only difference between a
> good bottle of California's (or Niagara's) exclusive vintages at say $10 a bottle and a overpriced $250 bottle of wine..is the label and maybe the
> bottle's shape.


As someone said, there is a difference. I've had many $10 wines, and the mid price points are generally better. As Brad said, the 20-30 price point is better... I actually find about the $40-60 price point what I get for special occasions. We don't drink very often any more, so when I have wine, I like a really good wine. I have had a variety of $200 - $1000 wines (not paid by me), and have been able to taste the difference, however, I definately don't think that a $200 wine is 4-5X better than a $40 wine. 

Why did I buy it then? A few reasons... wine is one of those things that can become an experience, if you think about that the grapes that your buying were around the year you're celebrating, it brings back memories of the year. We bought the wine to commerate a special year in our life, and we knew we would not spend crazy like that after kids. A more expensive first growth wine ages differently than a cheap wine, it will keep. We bought the wines t drink on our milestone anniversaries and some other special events. 

Do I get frugal points that the wine was a great deal even at that price, and right now is sold on wine markets for $400 - $600 a bottle? Not a bad investment, until you drink it. 

I seldomly drink now, so it's a moot point. 



carverman said:


> IF you happen to win big with that Lottery ticket,.that you weren't sure you were
> going to buy..because your so damn frugal (wink!) ..and WON a million or more...
> what would YOU do???
> pinch pennies and freeze bags of chicken in the freezer
> ...



Why can't I do a combination? Honestly, I would still pinch pennies & freeze bags of chicken. I may not vegetable peelings, because that's a lot more work. I would probably buy a larger freezer though (energy efficient of course) I don't think my frugal ways would really change that much, because right now, I'm frugal because I want to be, not because it's a neccessity.

Then I would buy diamond earrings, (this way I would get TWO diamonds instead of one). I would buy it for reasons F) It would bring enjoyment to me. None of the other reasons really matter except C, because it would need to look good.

Seriously though. I had opportunity to buy some really nice, expensive earrings last year on a trip. We had the money, but choose not to, as there was better things that I would get more enjoyment for $35K. I would rather make a lump sum on my mortgage, cabin, etc. When ever I look at expensive things, even if we have the cash available, I take a look as how much enjoyment it would bring me, and is there something that will give me more enjoyment for the same less. Though I want to get the earrings, I will not do so until I am able to meet my other goals first (see my other thread in money diaries)

Now, if the lottery was more like $10 MIL, then all of my other goals were met, and I decided the $50K earrings were what I wanted, THEN I would probably get them. As I've aged, my spendthriftness has been tamed by my practicality. I'm much less fun, than I was before. 






Rico said:


> On a side note, I'm currently in graduate school studying counselling psychology and I saw an interesting article a few months back about satisfaction of spending money on "things" versus "experiences". According to the researchers, most people rated being more satisfied having spent their money on experiences over 'things' (when asked much later from when the money was spent).


I totally agree with the experiences vs things. I used to want expensive things all the time, now, it's all about the experiences. When I think back to my more extravagent spendings, the ones that bring me the most memories are the ones with the experiences. My husband and I, and our families still talk about that meal at the Ritz, and some of the places we've eaten. I will spend money on tickets, and events for my kids, though not on material things.


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## travelgeek (Nov 29, 2009)

For a trip to Sydney Australia..... spent an additional $2800 over the cheapest economy fare for one that was upgradeable to business class with certificates. The flight was 21 hours each way (via Vancouver).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rico said:


> Having never ridden the train before I didn't know better. Plus, the cost difference was in the hundreds of dollars range. I rationalized it with "oh, it's at the start of the trip so it won't be so bad". Haha, yeah right.


Years later, when working, I went over to Turkey on business for my employer, (a telecommunications company..now bankrupt), 
to provide training..and within the same time frame, I decided to take a vacation in Europe by train. 

Learning from 3 sleepless nights on the train (in a seat) , in my younger years, this time I decided to book a bunk bed/berth on the train from Venice to Switzerland, as it went through the various mountain ranges between the countries over night. 

guess what?... *It was still a sleepless night*. I kept waking up...as the train lurched, steel wheels screeched
on the curves, frequent stops,..you can't sleep on a train either..
and the same in a 747 going over to Europe or coming back..jet lag, people bumping the seats...and hunched over in that seat in a sitting position, because if you recline the seat..the people sitting in the back of your seat will *kick the seat *and the people in the front will *drop their seat into yourlap..*....even sardines manage to stretch out inside their can...LOL!



> Here's the kicker: they gave me $900 in credits for being 7 hours late. I thought maybe my wife and I could go to Vancouver from Edmonton and use the berths this time. Cost = $1160 ONE WAY (less $900 credit) , 24 hour trip. I'm thinking "no".


Are you a drinker?
Well, iF you bring some good single malt scotch (or what your prefer), and quietly sneak that into your booth..take a few and you might pass out (after a while), enough to actually manage some shut eye..and not hear the screech of the brakes on the steel wheels, doors slamming between cars, stops, whistle blows, etc....and the same applies for your wife.

The only way you can get any restful sleep on a train IS when you are so tired, you just need a place to crash..or the alcohol numbs your brain..


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> No, that's not true, but I do think there's a much bigger difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle of wine than there is between a $30 bottle of wine and a $250 bottle of wine.


Sure, on your CC...it's the first taste on your taste buds...then after a while, your taste buds become used to any wine..$10 or $250.
Just ask the winos on the street....walking around drunk most of the time.



> You can find some good wines for $10-$15/bottle, but your odds are much better between $20 and $30. I've tried some very expensive wines (not bought by me) and the differences between the most expensive wines and those that cost $30 or $40 can be very subtle.


Ok, in the interest of frugality, (and obviously this thread is opened so we can discuss our spendthrift habits..the opposite side of the coin...
I being VERY frugal these days due to a shrinking Nortel pension :-( , will go into the LCBO to get a bottle of wine for sunday homemade dinner with my friend and look for a nice wine at what I consider a reasonable price for the quality of the wine. 

I've tried the Ontario VQA and other wines from other countries..and to me (with the odd exception) , 
some of them seem to be *overpriced for my tastebuds*....and I have a problem with that. 

I like a smooth merlot or white, not too sweet and not too sharp with no after taste. (I am a non-smoker, so I still have most of my tastebuds..even in my "not-so-golden" years.)

Believe or not..LCBO offers a California vintner's offering at a very reasonable and very frugal $8 a bottle..Gray Fox...tried several bottles of it in different varieties of grape..all very good for my palate...and guess what?..
...at the end of the month, *I get my MC and I can still manage to pay it off *without any interest because...I don't go out and buy $250 bottles of wine, that I'm sure the LCBO has for those with the means...


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

carverman said:


> ...at the end of the month, *I get my MC and I can still manage to pay it off *without any interest because...I don't go out and buy $250 bottles of wine, that I'm sure the LCBO has for those with the means...


I also can pay my credit cards without interest, even if I do buy $250 bottle of wine. I wouldn't buy if I had to pay interest in it (my house, and investments excluded) Even when I did buy these bottle years ago, I didn't carry a credit card balance. 

I wouldn't even buy an $8 bottle if I had a credit balance.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> I also can pay my credit cards without interest, even if I do buy $250 bottle of wine. I wouldn't buy if I had to pay interest in it (my house, and investments excluded) Even when I did buy these bottle years ago, I didn't carry a credit card balance.
> 
> *I wouldn't even buy an $8 bottle if I had a credit balance*.


I use my PC Mastercard for that..

and I wouldn't buy a $250 bottle of wine if it was the last bottle of wine on earth and my life depended on it!

Touche! my dear P.A. ;-0


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

carverman said:


> and I wouldn't buy a $250 bottle of wine if it was the last bottle of wine on earth and my life depended on it!


As a woodcarver, though, I bet you can tell the difference between a cheap set of plastic-handled linoleum block chisels and a good set of carbon-steel woodcarving chisels and gouges made by a company like Marples. Good tools make a difference, they hold an edge better, they sit better in the hand.

It's the same with wine. If you drink wine just to get a buzz, then any cheap wine will do. But if you take time to learn about wine and start to appreciate the subtleties you will start to be able to tell the difference between an $8 bottle of wine and an $80 bottle of wine. The cheaper bottles are table wines that are usually made from a blend of grapes harvested from many different vineyards. You don't get the kind of depth and complexity in those wines that you get with wines that are even one step up the price scale.

I'm not arguing for conoisseurship as a general practice, I'm just saying that in every field of interest, there are scales of quality and craftmanship that may not be apparent to someone who just skims the surface or has a casual knowledge of the topic.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Jungle said:


> Like $50K doing up cars. Nothing to show for it today, except a custom licence plate I paid over $200 for.


I refuse to think about how much I've blown on cars. I've learned to buy them either the way I like stock, or done up by the owner. The upgrades never do anything for the resale value. I've managed to sell most of my vehicles for more than paid, but that's a combination of getting a good deal and selling at the right time.



jamesbe said:


> I use to buy 5000 speakers or $3000 receivers too often to admit, no longer.


Another big purchase of mine. I hope my Paradigm speakers last as they are my favourite splurge to date, and I'm proud they're Canadian made. I don't think I could live without them honestly. I buy last year's receivers when the new models come in



Plugging Along said:


> As I've said, I'm kind of extreme in my frugality and spending... I'm can be really frugal, in order to offset my spendthriftyness


+1

And for those talking about wine, I'm no wine-connaisseur, but it's similar to scotch which I like to splurge on. I find there's a sweet spot in the price range and then you're just paying for rarity. A good 18 year single malt is exponentially better than the cheap blend, but a $200 bottle is just different imo


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

My most spendthrifty purchases are motorcycles. I purchased a new motorcycle in 2009 and another new motorcycle in 2010. My wife won't even mind if I buy a new motorcycle in 2011 . Trouble is, she wants me to get rid of one of my other bikes first.  Women can be so unreasonable; I keep telling her that there'd be plenty of room for motorcycles in the garage if she'd just park her car in the driveway.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I just sold a 6 year old motorbike for more than I paid, about equal with accessories. The older Japanese bikes hold their value and I only ever had to change oil and tires. Hassle free EFI and 5L/100km driving like I stole it, I consider it a bargain really. Free parking, HOV lanes, no waiting for ferries etc and saves KMs on the car


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> As a woodcarver, though, I bet you can tell the difference between a cheap set of plastic-handled linoleum block chisels and a good set of carbon-steel woodcarving chisels and gouges made by a company like Marples. Good tools make a difference, they hold an edge better, they sit better in the hand.


Brad, you don't need to tell me about good tools and the steel that goes into a carving tool. 
I do power carving mostly, but I do have good carving knifes (for wood not turkeys ) and I sharpen them and keep them sharp..

BUT there is a difference here Brad..If I buy that $100 carving tool (or any other tool for that matter) from Lee Valley, it should last me a LIFETIME..and that is my money well spent..not on some $250 bottle of wine for some ambience and perhaps a "buzz on"..after a few glasses....
It just doesn't make any frugal sense to me to spend that kind of money on something that you pi*s away..literally!



> It's the same with wine. If you drink wine just to get a buzz, then any cheap wine will do. But if you take time to learn about wine and start to appreciate the subtleties you will start to be able to tell the difference between an $8 bottle of wine and an $80 bottle of wine.


Yer "barking up the wrong "wino" here Brad. My frugality (my sixth sense) kicks in once the wine is more than $15! 
I just happen to like the Gray Fox Califernia wine..it's very drinkable, it easy on my budget these days..and it fits my lifestyle..what more can I say?




> The cheaper bottles are table wines that are usually made from a blend of grapes harvested from many different vineyards. You don't get the kind of depth and complexity in those wines that you get with wines that are even one step up the price scale. [/QUOTE}
> 
> well I guess, I will have to educate my taste buds someday, Brad..but ...right now,..lookout tonsils, lookout gums..just pour it in..here it comes!
> 
> ...


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

carverman said:


> If I buy that $100 carving tool (or any other tool for that matter) from Lee Valley, it should last me a LIFETIME..and that is my money well spent..not on some $250 bottle of wine for some ambience and perhaps a "buzz on"..after a few glasses....


Yes, but remember that experiences can last a lifetime, and I would put a good bottle of wine in the same league as a concert, front-row tickets to a professional hockey game, a vacation, or some similar experience. You have nothing tangible to show for it afterwards, but the memories will stay with you. For a person who appreciates good wine, a nice bottle will bring just as much pleasure and lasting memories as the same money spent on concert tickets, a trip to the beach...anyway you get the idea.

Like you I wouldn't spend $250 on a bottle of wine; my palate isn't that refined. The most I've spent on a bottle of wine was $60 and to be honest it wasn't much better than some of the $25 or $30 bottles we keep in our cellar -- and that wasn't just my opinion but also that of my girlfriend, who's from France and really knows wine.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

olivaw said:


> ( Women can be so unreasonable; I keep telling her that there'd be plenty of room for motorcycles in the garage if she'd just park her car in the driveway.


I hope your wife doesn't frequent this forum..yes..speaking from a male
perspective, and one that has owned 4 cruiser style motorcycles in the
last 15 years, I agree with your point of view. A motorcycle is more than
a vehicle with 2 wheels..it is part of your soul, your spirit and personifies
what you are when you are riding.

As the Harley boys would say "if ya gotta ask...then you don't understand!"


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Hassle free EFI and 5L/100km driving like I stole it, I consider it a bargain really. Free parking, *HOV lanes*, no waiting for ferries etc and saves KMs on the car


Interesting! Why is that? A motorcycle rider is still a single person in/on
a single vehicle. Now if you have a passenger, then I can see that being
a valid reason for occupying the HOV lane.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

And don't forget friend (carver), that I don't share your appreciation for motorcycles. I hit the open road all the time and don't need the noise and safety problems associated with bikes. My car has a/c, I can put the window down if I want, it's super quiet and won't make my hair go grey everytime I pass a truck on the road. It can be used in all types of weather and doesn't make unnecessary foolish inconsiderate noise. My point is you don't need a mc to do the 'open road' thing. I can and do pull over and stop just as easily with my car. So see, that's something you've chosen that means something to you, just like marina's jewelry and the expensive wine by others. And others don't care for my lifestyle either, and I'm at peace with that. Different strokes I guess.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> And don't forget friend (carver), that I don't share your appreciation for motorcycles. I hit the open road all the time and don't need the noise and safety problems associated with bikes. My car has a/c, I can put the window down if I want, it's super quiet and won't make my hair go grey everytime I pass a truck on the road. It can be used in all types of weather and doesn't make unnecessary foolish inconsiderate noise. My point is you don't need a mc to do the 'open road' thing. I can and do pull over and stop just as easily with my car. So see, that's something you've chosen that means something to you, just like marina's jewelry and the expensive wine by others. And others don't care for my lifestyle either, and I'm at peace with that. Different strokes I guess.


Yes, differn't strokes. I enjoy living dangerously, but at the same time, I am cautious to a point.. 
but I do enjoy the Man-machine interface.

(BTW..For yas forumites of the female persuasion, that think this is yet another of my sexist-chauvanistic comments..
this terminology is taken IN CONTEXT from the Nortel s/w interface between human and machine (big system computers)..
...we were grilled about that..but decided to keep the naming convention.)

Motorcycles..love them...although back in '95, I took out a very powerful V4 touring bike that had the V-Max engine and went a bit "hot" into a curve on a curvy road. What is it about curves?..whoops... Needless to say, I fought the bike and the bike
won..it crossed the double line and I bailed off as it slid down and embankment and smashed some very expensive plastic..as I found out later..but I picked myself up, dust myself off and start all over again...felt my limbs to make sure I was in one piece 
and went down to see how "my baby" was doing. 

Started it up and rode out of the ditch and home..more humble after one of my life's lessons..
but that didn't deter me from buying another one and doing the same thing over and over..
and the next time, I was in control of the machine...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

carverman said:


> Interesting! Why is that? A motorcycle rider is still a single person in/on
> a single vehicle. Now if you have a passenger, then I can see that being
> a valid reason for occupying the HOV lane.


They don't cause traffic congestion and they are always fuel efficient.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> They don't cause traffic congestion and they are always fuel efficient.


Well true..how many cagers ride in formation?


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> Sure, on your CC...it's the first taste on your taste buds...then after a while, your taste buds become used to any wine..$10 or $250.
> Just ask the winos on the street....walking around drunk most of the time.
> 
> 
> ...


Pffft! 8$ the bottle?!?!?! That's Crazy!!

I make my own Merlot, and, after all is accounted for, it costs just under 3$ the bottle.

- 3 frugality points (FP)-> Caverman


As for me, my biggest splurge has not happened yet but is on the verge of happening. I am considering buying a new car *GASP*


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Guigz said:


> Pffft! 8$ the bottle?!?!?! That's Crazy!!
> 
> I make my own Merlot, and, after all is accounted for, it costs just under 3$ the bottle.
> 
> - 3 frugality points (FP)-> Caverman


Ya, I definitely deserve minus points for my spendthrift habits..but
you know Guigz, I tried making it at home once..from a wine kit and
it was awful..poured it into the laundry tubs. 
Then a few years later, I joined a "wine exchange arrangement" to get
around Ont liquor laws..you have to make it "yourself".....
You buy a membership ($50) and donate your time to compensate
for your lack of vintner knowledge, by getting a batch ready for primary
fermentation, siphoning, specific gravity of alcohol content, and corking.

For my efforts, the proprietor of said establishment allowed me to choose a
case of wine that other "vintners" like meself had made. I eagerly chose 
this and that ....and took home a case of 12 bottles...yummy!

Started drinking the first bottle..ptuuuiii! I had to spit it out, tasted like
well...swill!! Uncorked the next bottle from a different batch and grape
type...ptuuii...another bottle of swill! Ok, so I had ten bottles left and
by this time, I didn't feel like any more of this Home brew (Brew-bayou)
stuff that passes off as wine. 

Put the case in the basement and promptly forgot about it until
10 months later around Thanksgiving. Went down to fetch a nice merlot
for T-Giving dinner..Opened it and sniffed it..yuk! Age did not improve
it's bouquet nor the taste..spit! spit ! Spit..and flush mouth with water!

Solution to the rest of the case..uncork, pour down drain and throw empties
into recycle. Never went back to said establishment. Out $50 (that's 4 almost
6.25 bottles of california's finest. ;-( wasted money down the drain!
Oh well, kick myself for being suckered into it. 

So, moral of sad story..I splurge on some things even though I'm "Mr Frugal"
in just about anything else..but no thanks...no more brew yer own for
me. At least if the $8 wine (California's finest, I might add) turns out to be
rotgut..I can take the rest of the bottle back to LCBO and get another
or my money back..now that at least satisfies my frugal nature.





> As for me, my biggest splurge has not happened yet but is on the verge of happening. I am considering buying a new car *GASP*


So I see, you make yer own wine and with the money you saved, you can
afford to buy that new car that will depreciate 30% in the first year and
on top of that you help to sustain two levels of gov't wasteful/spendthrift habits with the 13% tax you pay on the new car. 
Now in 5 years, the car is only worth about 30-40% of what you paid for it. 
In 5-10 years it is worth practically nothing!!! 

<substitute real dollar figures here in thousands and do the math yourself.

$25K + $3,250 + undercoat ($300) + extended warranty..another $2k = $30K
minus first year depreciation..or just as soon as you drive it off the lot = 
$10,000 ...can you hear the "giant sucking sound"??????..you could buy at least
40 bottles of the $250 better quality swill and enjoy that ...not
just have $10k of your hard earned after tax money vaporize before your eyes!

-200 frugal points ->Guiqz..actually I was going to give you more minus points
but I took pity on you because of your wine making frugality. 

but..hey! you are saving $5 on each bottle of wine you make yourself.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Making wine can be very costly, especially if you don't know what you're doing. I've had enough bad homemade wines, I would rather just drink water.

I did have one person who was particularily good at it, and he actually made the wine for my wedding. Since he had all the stuff, the deal was, I would supply the kit, and he would put the work into it, and we would split. It used to cost me about $80 and would get I can't remember how many bottles (at least 12 or 18). He stopped doing it, as he was running out of room, but I do have to admit his wine was as good as some of the $50 wines I had drank.

Now, since he's stopped, I just don't want to have to go through trying so many awful home brews for the few times I drink. I'll save my money for the more expensive bottle I have about once every year or two.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

You know you can buy a new car, and still be frugal. You don't need to buy the extender warrenty and all that extra stuff.

My last vehicle was brand new, but it was cheaper than an used one. I bought mine from the US, and saved about 23%. That was cheaper than what I would get a newer used car here, so why would I buy older?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> That was cheaper than what I would get a newer used car here, so why would I buy older?


But you could have bought a used car in the States and saved even more! 

If you buy a new car off the lot and try to sell it used the next day, you can see what a premium is put on new cars -- it's usually a few thousand bucks.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I was waiting for someone to make the comment about the used car (I expected Carve to)

The depreciation is less in the US from a new car to a used car, and there are more regulations to bring in the used car. Also, there is a higher risk of something going wrong with an used car in the US because it's more difficult to get it checked out. We have actully brought in (for our selves and family) many used cars, but those we either got a great deal and you cannot buy them here, or were able to get them from a relative who sells used cars down there. 

If we are just buying on the open market, the risk of my main vehicle that I'm driving my kids in is too big to just do it on line. 

Plus all the cars we have been able to purchase from the US we would have been able to sell as soon as we came back for more than what we purchased them for.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> Making wine can be very costly, especially if you don't know what you're doing. I've had enough bad homemade wines, I would rather just drink water.


Yup! I've even had a couple of what you could call "experienced" wine making
friends help me..still turned out like sh**..well swill!



> He stopped doing it, as he was running out of room, but I do have to admit his wine was as good as some of the $50 wines I had drank.


Nice of you to admit that P.A. I would have thought after being spoiled by
those "$250 a bottle creme de creme of the wine world, your taste buds would never come down to admitting that there are a LOT cheaper wines
out there that taste as good..and you know something..I bet that after a glass or two or three..
ya start to get a "buzz" on, and after that it ALL tastes the same..whether
it's a "less than $3 make yer own" or that $250..umm what was it?

Now, why deprive yourself..if you are going to throw Harper's money out the window..get the $500 "special reserve" that Adolf Hitler stored in cool dark caves in his Salzberg redoubt...I saw some of that in a restaurant in Koblenz Germany..and it
even had a swastika on the label..der Feuhrer's spezial reserzve..allemagne.

or something like that..hell!! I can't read German..but that bottle certainly had a
lot of history, and if you just consider the period from 1939-1945, it was
worth..well priceless (millions paid for it), and as they say and I don't think you could find a platinum Visa/MC or even Amex to buy it..after all it was part of THEIR history!



> Now, since he's stopped, I just don't want to have to go through trying so many awful home brews for the few times I drink. I'll save my money for the more expensive bottle I have about once every year or two.


And so you should. But I really don't think that a $50 bottle is worth bothering your wine taste buds..or even a $100 bottle..but if you happened
to get a nice refund from mr.Harper..go for the most expensive wine on the
planet..after all you only live once...unless you are in the James Bond movie..
"You only live twice..once for the gov'ts and once for yourself!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> I was waiting for someone to make the comment about the used car (I expected Carve to)


What did you want me to comment on?...I am mechanically inclined at
troubleshooting just about anything (except marriages of course), and
I do fix my detroit iron Dodge Bros Dakota..so....what advice are ye
seeking? 



> The depreciation is less in the US from a new car to a used car, and there are more regulations to bring in the used car. *Also, there is a higher risk of something going wrong with an used car in the US because it's more difficult to get it checked out.*


'splain please..what there are no mechanics in the US???




> [/B] We have actully brought in (for our selves and family) many used cars, but those *we either got a great deal and you cannot buy them here, or were able to get them from a relative who sells used cars down there*.


P.A..this statement defeats your previous statement..now I'm really confused?



> If we are just buying on the open market, the risk of my main vehicle that I'm driving my kids in is too big to just do it on line.


You can get lemons in new cars as well..US OR Canada! 
Perhaps the tranny won't fail on the way home in a new car, but some are real crap, and you really have to do your homework online on whatever model you are interested in..
like this one..(Phil Edmonston) there are others as well..

http://www.lemonaidcars.com/



> Plus all the cars we have been able to purchase from the US* we would have been able to sell as soon as we came back for more than what we purchased them for.*


Well ok, the dealer market is larger in the US, so the dealers can sell for less
and still make a profit. However, unless it's a vintage 1970s Mustang Mach 1
or similar, you better be sure that the car meets ALL the current standards
required in Canada. 

A couple years ago, some people bought new Hondas down there and could NOT get the ownership changed over by MOT...something to do with safety issues. It took many months and SEVERAL HUNDRED DOLLARS of the buyers money, to modify those late model Hondas to Cdn standards and those new cars sat in their driveways because
they could NOT get plates for them! 

Yes, you can get some good deals, but there will be lots of paperwork and you still
end up paying ALL taxes at the MOT as if you bought it here....

and here's the kicker...IF you have warranty issues, most dealers WILL NOT
honour any warranty repairs (AFAIK) on cars bought in the US. 

If this is the case, within the warranty period..you are on your own and
you will pay through the nose...negating any savings you may have realized
in the first place..you just better hope you are not buying a lemon with lots
of recalls and warranty issues!


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> Yup! I've even had a couple of what you could call "experienced" wine making
> friends help me..still turned out like sh**..well swill!


I guess it all depends on your taste buds. I personally can't stand Gray Fox, wines like these is partially why I turned to making my own (I dont make it make it, I have it made make it ). 

I can spend 8$ to buy cheap wine that tastes like crap (to me) or I can make my own crappy wine for 2-4$ per bottle. 



carverman said:


> -200 frugal points ->Guiqz..actually I was going to give you more minus points
> but I took pity on you because of your wine making frugality.


The points... they hurt don't they? 



Re: the new car, I plan to drive it into its (hopefully not early) grave. The model I was looking for, I could either pay 15-17 $K for a 3 year old car with 60,000-80,000 KM with no or little warranty and a definite element of uncertainty or 25K (including taxes) for a new car with full warranty, more features, better fuel economy and *new*. 

To me, the choice is pretty clear.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Guigz said:


> I guess it all depends on your taste buds. I* personally can't stand Gray Fox*, wines like these is partially why I turned to making my own (I dont make it make it, I have it made make it ).
> 
> I can spend 8$ to buy cheap wine that tastes like crap (to me) or I can make my own crappy wine for 2-4$ per bottle.


I like Gray Fox, it's one of the better swills..and I've tasted more expensive
$12-15 bottles from Italy or South America that were worse.
..and theres some from down under Aussie land.."cats pee on a gooseberry bush"

and it definitely tastes like it too! 
Well lets just call it a draw and stay friends ok? My taste buds are more
beer friendly..although I sometimes get a single malt scotch from my friends
for favors received...troubleshooting/fixing etc.




> The points... they hurt don't they?


Naw..you're good..they are a figment of your imagination....




> Re: the new car, I plan to drive it into its (hopefully not early) grave. The model I was looking for, I could either pay 15-17 $K for a 3 year old car with 60,000-80,000 KM with no or little warranty and a definite element of uncertainty or 25K (including taxes) for a new car with full warranty, more features, better fuel economy and *new*.
> To me, the choice is pretty clear.


I've never been a big fan of warranties..generally, unless your engine blows
apart or the tranny explodes on you, good luck on collecting any relief on
new car warranties..there are so many exclusions (wear & tear) it would make
your head spin! Tires, brakes, belts, hoses, sparkplugs, wheel bearings, any
bearings, A/C parts, light bulbs, geneator, starter, electrical parts, steering wheel, doors hinges, door locks..do I need to go on..or do you get my point?....are EXCLUDED!

The extended warranty is a SCAM! The dealer gets a bonus for selling you
something that you can only collect on if the engine, tranny or drive train
fall apart and then good luck trying to prove to them that it wasn't because
of your neglect! 

Look if I was looking for a 3 yr old vehicle, I certainly would not put the
warranty on my priority list. Any used vehicle has to undergo a complete
mechanical test..includes lights, tire tread/sidewall, bearings, suspension
parts, brakes, and other components that allow the vehicle to be operated
safely on public highways.

Besides the standard safety certificate, you can ask the mechanic (at extra
charge) to check out the battery condition, charging system and even the
starter. What's left..rad + pressure cap, hoses, belts and if you get these
checked an no problems found..you are good to go and your can rest assured
that you found a good one..ok?


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> Look if I was looking for a 3 yr old vehicle, I certainly would not put the
> warranty on my priority list. Any used vehicle has to undergo a complete
> mechanical test..includes lights, tire tread/sidewall, bearings, suspension
> parts, brakes, and other components that allow the vehicle to be operated
> safely on public highways.


Not in Quebec  

Although I could try to find a mechanic I trust to do it and pay for the inspection. 

Having experienced only used cars (and their problems), I feel like its time to experience a new car (and its problems). 


Its raining outside, will you get wet if you walk outside without an umbrella? Probably! However, some people need to experience it themselves to be sure.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I've never said there aren't good wines that are less expensive. The thread was what was the spendthrifty things we've done. Your posts insinuate that I throw all my money down on expensive wines, and am spoiled by the taste of them. I don't always buy expensive wine. I am do get the luxery of tasting many expensive wines when out with certain people I know (they usually pay, as they have more of the wallet, and the taste). So I am spoiled there. However, I enjoyed purchasing that 1/2 case, have enjoyed drinking the bottles, and will enjoy drinking the rest of them over the years. 

I enjoy many different wines (just don't get to drink them very often anymore  ) So right now, I have a selection of wine in my basement ranging from $10 - $250+, when I have guest over, I'll serve them what I think they'll enjoy, and when it's been a really special occasion and special guest, I may pull out something more expensive. As long as it's good. 

As for after the first 3 glasses, I seldom waste my money any more on over indulging on alcohal. That wouldn't be very frugal now would it. Waste of money after the first 3 (like you said it does start to taste the same after), also my recover is much much longer than before. I remember when I was younger, we would start with the most expensive bottle and work our way down as a group. There was one bottle that was sooooooooooo bad, even after 6 or 7 bottles none of us could drink it. Oh to be young again... 



carverman said:


> What did you want me to comment on?...
> 
> 'splain please..what there are no mechanics in the US???
> 
> ...


I knew you would comment based on your frugal monitoring =)

In terms of the cars used vs. new in the US. For us, we have a relative that we trust that we have purchased some of our used cars from. He does the full mechanical inspection before we decide to buy, and most importantly we trust him. So I have no problems buying used from him. For just calling any mechanic in the US, there is a big logistics issue. You don't want to fly all the way there just to pick up a car, to have the mechanic inspect it to find out its a dud. It's difficult when you're not in the US to get a person to bring get an impartial mechanic in to inspect the car, pay them, etc for a vehicle that you haven't purchased (not sure if I'm explaining that correctly). That's one of the biggest risks. 

In terms of the rules and regulations, you definately need to know what you are doing, and understand everything required. However, once you've done it a few times, it's actually pretty easy. You have to make sure that you paper work is inorder, your car has all the requirements, etc. It's all available on the sites. My spouse is the one that has done it, and we've been working an e-book or site for it. He was one of the first to buy from the dealer in Canada, and walked the dealer through it. We were able to give him 8 more sales of our friends and family with in a week, so he gave us a further discount. 

Even with the taxes, flight, accomodations at the city, gas to drive back, vehicle inspections, everything, we still saved about ~23% net from the best Canadian price we were able to negotiate. That was still cheaper than buying used here. Also, there are only certain cars that make sense in terms of importing into Canada. For some of the other vehicles that we shipped back, we were still able to save a substantial amount of money (partial because our relative gives us the vehicle at cost)

In terms of warrenty, this one is trickier. There are some that will honor the warrenty in Canada, but not many. My other really close relative is our mechanic, hence why I never worry about the cost of repairs. We've always been lucky this way. He's a master mechanic, and specializes in specific vehicles. We tend to stick only with those vehicles makes. Also as a back up, if there were any major recalls on the new vehicle, we would drive it back to where we got it. We did that once for our first free oil change, only because we were driving near that state for a family vacation anyways.

I would buy used from my relative all the time if we could, but they live very far away from us, and the time to drive it back makes it much more difficult.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> As for after the first 3 glasses, I seldom waste my money any more on over indulging on alcohal. That wouldn't be very frugal now would it. Waste of money after the first 3 (like you said it does start to taste the same after), also my recover is much much longer than before. I remember when I was younger, we would start with the most expensive bottle and work our way down as a group. *There was one bottle that was sooooooooooo bad, even after 6 or 7 bottles none of us could drink it*. Oh to be young again...
> 
> Obviously a "mature vintage"? I rest my case.
> 
> ...


----------



## travelgeek (Nov 29, 2009)

I'm also one who purchased my current car in the US at considerable savings. With a $14000 difference, I figure I can 'self warranty' any repair item that comes up. Fortunately the warranty carried across the border, the only issue is that you have to pay up front and then submit the receipt to the US head office for reimbursement.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

travelgeek said:


> I'm also one who purchased my current car in the US at considerable savings. With a $14000 difference, I figure I can 'self warranty' any repair item that comes up. Fortunately the warranty carried across the border, the only issue is that you have to pay up front and then submit the receipt to the US head office for reimbursement.


You were lucky then. I guess there are extenuating circumstances in every
case.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

The warrenty really does depend on the manufactuer. There a many companies that do honor them in Canada. Ours did not, but we knew that ahead of time, and my relative specializes in that make. There is also an option to go with a third party insurer. It costs for most vehicles $2-3k for the warrenty, depending on car, etc. The thing is that you need to know this ahead of time.

In terms of insurance, yes, you get temporary insurance and need the vin. This is why it's a higher risk in buying a used car. We have the seller send us the vin, often the vehicle has been unseen (hence no mechanical inspection). You could do this while you're there buying the car, buy those times, the purpose of the trip wasn't to buy a car, but a deal just happened. That has been the case my in laws went to visit their relatives and just 'ended up' with a vehicle, which we would have to import back for them. So you get temporary insurance, which is pretty easy, and then if it's a used car, you will get the plates from the seller, if it's a new car the dealer will give you a temporary sticker good for 30 days. I know this is legit, as we did get pulled over once while going through the inspection process in Canada.

Our relative in the US owns an used car dealership, so our family has been able to get some really good deals. So not one of the gone in 60 sec deals. I actually understand why my spouse doesn't get more used vehicles from them. He's definately not very frugal with vehicles. He's the one that always wants the new vehicle, not me. I would rather get them used. Buying them in the US was his solution and compromise to me not wanting to lose on depreciation. I have bought one new vehicle in Canada because of my spouse, but did get family pricing. It's 12 years old, and I'm trying to keep it going as long as I can. The other new vehicle was from the US. We tend to drive them until they break/no longer safe, no longer serve their purpose (spouse had get rid of the two seater when the kids came), or have new needs.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> The warrenty really does depend on the manufactuer. There a many companies that do honor them in Canada. Ours did not, but we knew that ahead of time, and my relative specializes in that make. *There is also an option to go with a third party insurer. * It costs for most vehicles $2-3k for the warrenty, depending on car, etc. The thing is that you need to know this ahead of time.


I would strongly advise against that. A friend of mine got scammed by an
extended warranty "provider" that took his money and then "went out of
business"..and this was through a dealer too. When my friend found out that
his rather expensive third party warranty was worthless..he went to the dealer for regress and the dealer shrugged his shoulders and said "nothing we
can do"....but it's your money of course! 



> In terms of insurance, yes,* you get temporary insurance *and need the vin. This is why it's a higher risk in buying a used car. We have the seller send us the vin, often the vehicle has been unseen (hence no mechanical inspection). You could do this while you're there buying the car, buy those times, the purpose of the trip wasn't to buy a car, but a deal just happened.


This sounds like a lot of hassle and unless you can stay with relatives to make
those phone calls to your insurance company and then waiting to get a policy binder plus faxed documentation that you have some form of vehicle
insurance, you are under a lot of stress. 
And folks remember that at least in Ont, if you get stopped by the cops, you
only have 48 hrs to produce a insurance pink slip with a valid policy #..otherwise you may be liable for insurance fraud fines of $5K or even more! 



> That has been the case my in laws went to visit their relatives and just 'ended up' with a vehicle, which we would have to import back for them. So you get temporary insurance, which is pretty easy, and then if it's a used car, *you will get the plates from the seller*, if it's a new car the dealer will give you a temporary sticker good for 30 days. I know this is legit, as we did get pulled over once while going through the inspection process in Canada.


So what happens if you are in an accident on the way back across the border? With the ownership not changed over yet, plates from the US
(and not Ontario or any other province) and you get into a serious accident?
Do you legally own this vehicle or does the seller that gave you the plates
for transit until the ownership gets changed over in Canada?



> I have bought one new vehicle in Canada because of my spouse, but did get family pricing. It's 12 years old, and I'm trying to keep it going as long as I can. The other new vehicle was from the US. *We tend to drive them until they break/no longer safe, no longer serve their purpose *(spouse had get rid of the two seater when the kids came), or have new needs.




So I see..you don't believe in maintaining your vehicle(s)..just drive them into the ground?


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## travelgeek (Nov 29, 2009)

In terms of insurance, my dealer would not release the car without verification of the insurance slip. So they provided the VIN in advance, which was then forwarded to my insurer, who then issued a 30 day temporary proof of insurance. When the car was delivered, it had a 10 day temporary license 'plate' on taped to the rear window.

As far as ownership, the NY state registration had my name and address on it.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Honestly, importing a car is not as difficult as you make it sound and stressful. I do agree that you have to do your homework and make sure you know what you're doing. I figure if my spouse, who is not a detailed type of guy and doesn't handle stress or planning very well, then most people can do it =D I know I had these concerns the first two times we did it, and I guess we've just become used to it. My theory is that on large purchases like vechicles, this is the time to be frugal. You have to cut out a lot $8 wine or whatever small thing you're doingr to save $15K.

In terms of the 3 party insurance. Again, you have to perform your due diligence, for us we didn't get it because we have my relative who fixes my cars, but one of my friends who also bought their car right after us did do it, and have no problems. They've had no problems with the car, so think next time they won't buy the warrenty either. 

I find you do need to plan to stay over night at the place you're picking the vehicle. Mostly because it's hard to get the logistics of getting from the airport (if you're flying) to the pick up on the vehicle in the same day. When we bought the new car the dealer picked up hubby from the airport, because my husband helped him so much, but he still stayed over night, so he cold start his drive home fresh. I calculate the cost of the hotel, and flight in with my net savings too. The insurance is probably the easiest part. If you purchased the car before you arrive to the US, you just call your insurance before you get there, and they will fax it too you. If you are there and just happen to pick up a car, then you call them there, and they are pretty quick. The harder part is that the border needs the paper 48 hours in advance. This is why we don't go to the US just to buy a car, unless we're there on vacation or will be there for a while. 

Ownership is changed before you hit the border. It's part of the paper work, but I don't know the details of that. If you get into an accident, which we have done personal, but do know someone who did, it's just like any insurance claim.

I think you know what I meant about driving them till they break. Of course we maintain them, well, we bring them to my relative. There does get to a point, where the reliability or safety may be questioned, even though you are putting in the maintainance. Cars don't last forever anymore (I know you're probably a vehicle older than me that you bought with your pop bottle money that you collect on your walk both ways up the hill to school in -50 weather ) We just put a lot of money (that's at cost with hardly any labour charge) this year into our 11 yr vehicle. I think this year we did new tires, tranny, rotor, brakes, and something else, over $2 or 3K. We will still feel the car is safe and reliable, so will continue to put in the money until it makes no more sense.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> My theory is that on large purchases like vechicles, this is the time to be frugal. *You have to cut out a lot $8 wine *or whatever small thing you're doingr to save $15K.


Good point there P.A. But with my current declining pension income, I can
only dream of saving 15K..that is almost 3/4 of my yearly pension income,
so there is no way that I can afford the next vehicle, used, new or even
imported from the US. I'm not a big wine drinker, so the $8 a bottle for
Gray Fox (Californicatia finest), once a month..whoa??? that's about 8 x 12=
$96 dollars I can save per year. Gotta think about that, now if I can cut
out cola, pop, juice and drink tap water..I can save even more...and just
eat Ramen noodles 3 times a day (49c each). I like KD, but damn..even
that is getting too expensive for me. I go and buy stale bread or anything
that's 50% off. 



> Ownership is changed before you hit the border. It's part of the paper work, but I don't know the details of that. If you get into an accident, which we have done personal, but do know someone who did, it's just like any insurance claim.


Good to know...thanks. 



> Cars don't last forever anymore (I know you're probably a vehicle older than me that you bought with your pop bottle money that you collect on your walk both ways up the hill to school in -50 weather )


.ha!..ha! I wish! BTW..I never had to walk to school at -50..yow! I just
can't imagine anybody walking outside at those temps. Now I did walk to
a country school 3/4 of a mile in my childhood days..but being a private
road, there just wasn't any pop or beer bottles to cash in. Being young
and stupid, one never thought about growing old and having to deal
with the increased cost of living. We as kids, just enjoyed and shared what
we had and lived for today. 



> We just put a lot of money (that's at cost with hardly any labour charge) this year into our 11 yr vehicle. I think this year we did new tires, tranny, rotor, brakes, and something else, over $2 or 3K. We will still feel the car is safe and reliable, so will continue to put in the money until it makes no more sense.


Well, I am glad that you are doing maintenance. Body rust aside, that will
keep the vehicle going much longer than even the car companies hope for.
I plan on keeping mine until I can no longer drive..I just need to get that
gas saving chip for it..because it's now costing me $110 to fill my tank and
with my income shrinking even more this year...I'll soon have to cut out
those extravagant $8 bottles of wine!


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

Caverman, by the way, you made me buy a bottle of Gray Fox... 

I had to give it a fair chance again after telling you I dont like it. Maybe my taste buds have matured...

I will have to report back.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

back to the question of the thread...

Flew return to Eastern Europe first class.

It was amazing and so were the services in the exclusive lounges in Heathrow, Frankfurt, Munich etc.

I think everyone should fly across the ocean in a bed and have people wait on them constantly with delicious food and drink.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Guigz said:


> Caverman, by the way, you made me buy a bottle of Gray Fox...
> 
> I had to give it a fair chance again after telling you I dont like it. Maybe my taste buds have matured...
> 
> I will have to report back.


Maybe you've been drinking too much of that $250 a bottle stuff??? 

Which variety of grape did you buy? 

*GRAY FOX CABERNET SAUVIGNON *LCBO 527515 | 750 mL bottle Price: $ 7.95 Wine, Red Wine 13.0% Alcohol/Vol. Sugar Content : 1 Made in: , USA Tasting Note
Medium-light burgundy colour; aromas of light smoke and cassis; ripe flavours of sweet cassis.
Serving Suggestion
*serve with pizza*

Now this is a Frugal wine..serve with a nice frozen pizza (under $5) and
for $13, you have a meal..and still have a few bucks left over for frozen
cheesecake at Loblaws. 10 -> frugality points. 


*and of course for those of us... that prefer a white under $250 a bottle...*
*GRAY FOX CHARDONNAY LCBO 614271 | 750 mL bottle *Price: $ 7.95 Wine, White Wine 12.1% Alcohol/Vol.
Sugar Content : 1 Made in: , USA Tasting Note
Soft and fruity with spiced apple and pear, *serve chilled with grilled pork chops.*Serving Suggestion
*serve with pork chops with apple* Please note: "pok" chops..not lobster here. Still a nice meal and you can relax knowing that you saved all that money that would otherwise go down the toilet 

and.. if you go to yer freezer ( now? who was that lady that freezes 100lbs of chicken legs on special?),,, and there is no "pok chops" or frozen pizza, or chicken legs to chew on..maybe there is still a frozen burger in there? 


*GRAY FOX MERLOT LCBO 527507 | 750 mL bottle *Price: $ 7.95 Wine, Red Wine 12.5% Alcohol/Vol.
Sugar Content : 1 
Tasting Note
Medium-ruby colour; plums, cherry and subtle smoke aromas; dry, medium-body, round plum and cherry flavours with notes of old oak, medium length finish.
Serving Suggestion
*Burgers*


ACk!! My (your) freezer is now empty..empty!!

What to do? What to do? Ok, well there is a lifesaver..(a hobo's banquet)..
a can of beans somewheres back in the cupboard from 2-3 years ago..
aged to perfection..ok the "pok" bits may not be good anymore...but beans
never go to waste..and since I leave alone..I don't have to worry about
bothering anyone with the "music" beans produce...
.. and maybe I can buy a package of Schneiders ALL Beef weiners.
and I'll cut up an old wrinkly spud (growing eyes) and that will be enough
for me..a dinner d'elegance!

100 frugality points -> for ole carve.

Now to find an old candle, half burned during the last power outage and a
linen tablecloth..there!..voila as they say in French...ambience!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

*Ho Hum!!*

This thread is either getting stale or very boring to most. I miss the
responses by the lovely ladies (I'm a material girl in a material world..Madonnas)...so gals....what's happening?? 

I miss your responses to.... my rather "one sided way" of thinking.

Carve (trolls "R" us)


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Sorry Carve But some of us have to work to pay for these expensive things  Went to bed 4am and was back at the computer 9:30am.I want to have the entire Easter weekend off with family so have so much to do in next couple days


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Sorry Carve But some of us have to work to pay for these expensive things  *Went to bed 4am and was back at the computer 9:30am*.I want to have the entire Easter weekend off with family so have so much to do in next couple days


I was up most of the night too..playing my geetars and typing up 
some more info, I got from manufacturers/guitar forum sites, as
I have to part with a couple of my "babies"..I've got a few, so
i've decided to downsize a couple and put them up for sale on KiJJi.

So far 95% are tire kickers, but I got one firm bite today on my Les Paul
Custom. A nice dad is buying it for his 11 year old son..and the amp that
goes with it. What a nice dad to do that! I wish my dad had bought me
a Les Paul when I was 11...by now I would be on "Broadway"

Here's the Lyrics to George Benson's On Broadway..
he plays a class axe (thats musician lingo for a nice guitar)


THEY SAY THE NEON LIGHTS ARE BRIGHT ON BROADWAY
THEY SAY THERE'S ALWAYS MAGIC IN THE AIR
BUT WHEN YOU'RE WALKIN' DOWN THE STREET
AND YOU AIN'T HAD ENOUGH TO EAT
THE GLITTER RUBS RIGHT OFF AND YOU'RE NOWHERE
============================================
I was genius..I could have been a star..but they told me
they had all they could use...
============================================
THEY SAY THE WOMEN TREAT YOU FINE ON BROADWAY
BUT LOOKIN' AT THEM JUST GIVES ME THE BLUES
'CAUSE HOW YA GONNA MAKE SOME TIME
WHEN ALL YOU GOT IS ONE THIN DIME
AND ONE THIN DIME WON'T EVEN SHINE YOUR SHOES
=========================================
(ain't that right?...babes? 
=========================================
THEY SAY THAT I WON'T LAST TOO LONG ON BROADWAY
I'LL CATCH A GREY HOUND BUS FOR HOME THEY ALL SAY
BUT THEY'RE DEAD WRONG I KNOW THEY ARE
'CAUSE I CAN PLAY THIS HERE GUITAR
AND I WON'T QUIT TILL I'M A STAR ON BROADWAY


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

carverman said:


> I miss the
> responses by the lovely ladies (I'm a material girl in a material world..Madonnas)...so gals....what's happening??
> 
> I miss your responses to.... my rather "one sided way" of thinking.
> ...


Ahhhh... you missed us... have been busy working and preparing for the long weekend... did try to respond 3 times, and lost all 3 posts, so I figured it was a sign... but I'll play 




carverman said:


> Now this is a Frugal wine..serve with a nice frozen pizza (under $5) and
> for $13, you have a meal..and still have a few bucks left over for frozen
> cheesecake at Loblaws. 10 -> frugality points.
> 
> ...


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I make my own baked beans from scratch with loads of Onions and we put bacon and wieners in them as well.Some like molasses others like tomato style in our house, with home made bread that is a feast.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along;60918 [B said:


> First, I don't like whites and they don't generally last as long in storage so, $250 a bottle isn't worth it


Ze rhine vine ..und tafelwine, gewurztraminer or Lieframilch (that's dear lady's milk in German btw....
) have an nice taste to my palate..and I drove along the Rhine valley a 
few years ago..so these bottles brings back memories. Why would I want to
put a good bottle of $12 "Cherman vine" in storage after decorking?....hmmm?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewürztraminer



> Second, you might get 1 frugality point, not 10.


Ach de Liebre mine fraulein...ze is so cruel to only allow von point(s). :-(




> Why are you buying prepackaged foods, it's more money. I would make 2 pizzas for the $5 (and it would be healthier). Then you're drinking a whole bottle of wine. That's not very frugal at all, but I do see your point if you are going to drink a whole bottle, then $8 is enough to spend.


It's a "Happy meal" for me..I just pop a frozen pizza in da oven and uncork
a californicator white..or the Cherman varieties, vich I love..Winzertanz,
Blue nun...but these are getting too expensive for my budget, so I
just buy the cheapest that go with whatever. 



> I* could nicely buy a $40, drink one glass, and spend the $8 per serving, and make it an experience I could remember . *


Ze ist all in your head, mine fraulein...



> I would also make my own cheesecake for about $12 for 12 servings, making it cheaper than the $3/serving you buy frozen. I would also plan it so I can bake it almost at the same time as my pizza, so I could save on electricity.


The frozen ones are crap. I tried one those PC Loblaws ones..just awful! 
Well I do make my own cheesecake from time to time..I just like the Costco
ones for a real treat..but at $16..they are getting too expensive for me.
So I found a recipe for Bannana/toasted coconut cheesecake and I have
3 spring form pans ...so..I think I'm making that this weekend for Easter Sunday dinner. 




> 10 points for eating the old beans, but only 10, but -20 for having to put even yourself through the aromatic music of eating old beans. I would have given you more points if you like me, have dried beans, that never go bad.


Ya I got those and frozen varieties of beans, kidney beans, lima beans, black
beans..and even chick peas which I like in a greek salad..which is one of my
favs. I do make a bean salad from time to time..but it takes a lot of cooking
for beans..so sometimes the old can opener (hand crank) comes in handy
to just open a can of beans and be done with it. 



> They cost about 1/10 of canned beans, and if soaked properly, you can eliminate some of the music. You could argue the music like my kids and spouse do is entertainment, but they have learned that I too can be just as aromatic if not more so then they.


Well beans are what they call "musical fruit"..or veggies?..anyway I got
Beano for the worst case situations..as I have to take pity on my cat. 



> Also, why are you letting your spuds get wrinkle -10 points. You could par boil them, and then shred or cube them, put them on a freezer sheet, and they have fast potatoes without eyes for another day. Shame on you for wasting.


Well they are from last winter (before Xmas) so lying around in a cool place
in the basement they get dehydrated, like I do sometimes...and they have
better eyes now than I do. I do cube them and either boil or put them in
my mock chicken soup..the Lipton one..which this yellow dye salty tasting
blob..its similar to KD with that artificial cheese dust..but my tastebuds
have gotten use to all this carcinogenic chemicals they put in these fast
foods we have gotten used to. 

Carve ( Red red wine
Stay close to me
Don't let me be alone
It's tearing apart
My blue blue heart) ..UB 40 ???


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> I make my own baked beans from scratch with loads of Onions and we put bacon and wieners in them as well.Some like molasses others like tomato style in our house, with home made bread that is a feast.


That's it! Marina..I'm coming over to your place for Easter Dinner. Just include
an extra chair for me...I'll be a ghost at your table...


"If you could read my mind love,
what a tale my thoughts could tell.
Just like an old time movie
about a ghost from a wishing well.
In a castle dark or a fortress strong
with chains upon my feet.
You know that ghost is me
and I will never be set free
as long as I'm a ghost that you can't see."

clank!..clank! .clank!...it's these chains upon my feet.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Carver Easter Dinner is going to be Turkey ,my kids get upset if I don't make Turkey for Easter and Xmas! I would be happy with homemade baked beans any day of the week.I do all the important stuff with the cooking and leave the tasks like cutting and peeling to other people.I make the best stuffing according to EVERYONE that ever tastes it.It starts with sauteed onions and carrot in Margarine *not butter* then I put a full pack of stove top and a can of cream of celery soup in my fresh bread crumbs that i make.mix it all together add savory(not sage!) and salt then stuff that darn turkey.I have to make extra on the side as my family go nuts for it .BTW I wanted to post Turkey in the What are you buying section LOL .Should buy some butter ball stocks lol
By the way we also have 'jigg's dinner with the turkey ,here is a photo i found on google http://cookinwithcarolyn.ca/blog/?page_id=2 but I will do the turnip,carrot ,spinach, salt beef,potatoes ,'pie crust' which is great covered with gravy and peas pudding which is steamed in pudding bags as you cook the veggies and salt beef .So it is like two big meals together .I also make cranberry sauce from scratch,homemade pickles ,beets etc.I recently tried pickled turnips as the persian restaurant we go to serves them and so salty so i made my own!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Carver Easter Dinner is going to be Turkey ,my kids get upset if I don't make Turkey for Easter and Xmas! I would be happy with homemade baked beans any day of the week.I do all the important stuff with the cooking and leave the tasks like cutting and peeling to other people.*I make the best stuffing according to EVERYONE that ever tastes it.It starts with sauteed onions and carrot in Margarine *not butter* then I put a full pack of stove top and a can of cream of celery soup in my fresh bread crumbs that i make.mix it all together add savory(not sage!) and salt then stuff that darn turkey.I have to make extra on the side as my family go nuts *for it .BTW I wanted to post Turkey in the What are you buying section LOL .Should buy some butter ball stocks lol


So she is from Lush's Blight?..isn't that naming convention a bit strange..
I mean..a lush is another name for an alcohol -hic! and blight, as everyone
knows is not a pretty thing when it hits yer crop of whatever your "grow-op"
is producin'.

Rowwfff! My mouth is drooling..<'scuse me"> < Carve whips drool from corner
of mouth...LOL!...as if he isn't this way most of the time...and carve is nuts alreadyl, so a little bit of Marina's stuffin' n' such..would make me very happy!..I could even uncork one of my finest wines..the $8 California special"..what kind of wine do you serve with a turkey?..white? 




> By the way we also have 'jigg's dinner with the turkey ,here is a photo i found on google http://cookinwithcarolyn.ca/blog/?page_id=2 but I will do the turnip,carrot ,spinach, salt beef,potatoes ,'pie crust' which is great covered with gravy and peas pudding which is steamed in pudding bags as you cook the veggies and salt beef .So it is like two big meals together .I also make cranberry sauce from scratch,homemade pickles ,beets etc.I recently tried pickled turnips as the persian restaurant we go to serves them and so salty so i made my own!


*Stop it! Stop it !* I'm going nuts here with all your talk of fine food...
and I'll just havta warm up that left over frozen pizza, I had last night and
dream of what might have been...

BTW, Marina..you are a mighty fine cook, if I may say so, from your description. I hope *Addy* doesn't rap me across the knuckes..again for
saying this...ahem!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We really do not drink much alcohol ,we had to give away last summer beer before it went bad lol.


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

Ah, easily, our wedding. But as they say, you hopefully only do it once.


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## donaldhumiston (Apr 26, 2011)

Spending audio set in my car I guess? Well, how I see it, it is not spending too much, but to my wife-- it is! 
Maybe it differs on whom you ask.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

We typically buy a "value" BBQ but this year, we decided to splurge a little and picked up a Weber.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

I hope you mean a kettle, and not one of those crappy nat gas / propane models.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Sampson said:


> I hope you mean a kettle, and not one of those crappy nat gas / propane models.


Hahah! While it's true that most of the serious grill chefs use wood and wouldn't go near a propane grill, the propane ones really aren't so bad. I used charcoal for years, switched to propane, then switched back to wood/charcoal...now I'm ready to switch back to propane. There are propane grills available now that get just as hot as a wood fire, but there's a lot less smoke and you don't have to deal with the ashes. Plus you can regulate the temperature a lot better.

My charcoal grill has two grill positions: too close to the flames and too far away. When I decided to celebrate my 50th birthday (in January) a few years ago with a couple of grilled steaks, my neighbours smelled the smoke and called the fire department; I guess it never occurred to them that someone might be grilling at night when it was 15 below zero.

The only issue I have with propane grills is longevity. My charcoal grill lives outside all year 'round, and it's 15 years old. I've never had a gas grill that lasted longer than 5 years.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

but brad.... you know that its not only about the heat...

I use this beautiful hardwood charcoal out of quebec, and I'm smacking my lips just thinking about the flavor... 

this weekend's activities, SET!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

brad said:


> The only issue I have with propane grills is longevity. My charcoal grill lives outside all year 'round, and it's 15 years old. I've never had a gas grill that lasted longer than 5 years.


Tell me about it!..and those crappy stainless steel burners only last about
less than 2 years, and you have to get new ones..that cost almost half
as much as the grill..and don't you hate those piezo starters....push!
push! push! and still the grill doesn't start..so you open the top and look
in while the gas is still coming into the burners..press the starter one more
time and W-H-O-O-S-H!!! You just singed your eybrows..now you have
to use your wife's eyebrown pencil until they grow back!


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## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

Spent $7,000 this past fall on a 3-week trip to Argentina. I wouldn't trade the memories for anything. We had an amazing time. 

Frugality is good for the most part, but life is for the living.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

Are propane BBQ's considered crappy? That's all I see around here!


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

FrugalTrader said:


> Are propane BBQ's considered crappy? That's all I see around here!


That's all you generally see anywhere (except the southern US, where they have true BBQs (which are slow-cookers...what we call BBQs are more accurately called "grills").

Propane grills are much more convenient, easier to cook on, and actually better for the environment despite the fact that they use fossil fuels, because wood or charcoal burn much less cleanly than propane does.

But most standard propane grills don't reach the high temperatures you can achieve with a good bed of coals, nor do you get that smoky flavour you can get from a wood or hardwood-charcoal grill. So most serious grill chefs use wood or hardwood charcoal.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

FrugalTrader said:


> Are propane BBQ's considered crappy? That's all I see around here!


Don't get me wrong FT, I'm a little snobby when it comes to the 'Q. 

brad is 100% right on the differences. My experience is that it comes down to heat, evenness of that heat, and flavor.

Burning propane or nat gas doesn't impart any flavor onto the food, but if you have a nice Weber gas model, you can buy inserts and use charcoal in those also, or just make a smoke pouch using tin foil. It's certainly much easier to use a propane/gas grill, even for 'true BBQ' - the slow indirect heat used for ribs, roasts, and all the other goodies that take 3+ hours to finish. The big downside is that it can take a while to set up, 10-15 min to get the first coals going, another 10-15 min to get to temperature, so simple things like burgers, steak and any other classic grill items aren't worth it unless you a firing them up for a big crowd.

Maybe I'm just snooty cuz I can't afford one of those nice grills


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

I have reluctantly switched from my Weber Charcoal to a Napoleon Gas B.B.Q, that was bought for me.

The taste is not the same, but the convenience, no more mess, predicatbility, make up for that.

Mine is not Propane, but Natural Gas.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

often in the state parks on national holidays in both the US & canada you see families who've hauled out what appears to be a cooker made from a big oil drum. They always have it up on some kind of homemade leg frame. The thing goes all day while the kids & young adults play, I suppose the victuals are inside ? wrapped in tin foil i hope ? 

that reminds me of a country restaurant where we once stopped for a light lunch. They couldn't serve us as they were about to start their fully-booked sunday prix fixe buffet brunch.

they were offering plenty of charcoal-grilled dishes. But the parking lot was near the back of the restaurant. Just outside the kitchen door one could see the pile of lumber waiting to be taken in to be burned in the grills & ovens; and in fact a kitchen employee came out to pick up 2 big pieces.

it was all heavily-painted scrap lumber, lumber that came from hundreds of old demolished sheds, barns, fences, porches & lean-tos in the district. Most of the paint, at least the earlier coats, would have been lead-based. Smoke particles carrying lead & other toxic chemicals from these ancient paints would have wafted up & into the ribs & pizzas being cooked just above the embers. Oh, dear. Modern life is so complicated.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> that reminds me of a country restaurant where we once stopped for a light lunch. They couldn't serve us as they were about to start their fully-booked sunday prix fixe buffet brunch.
> 
> ...they were offering plenty of charcoal-grilled dishes. it was all heavily-painted scrap lumber, lumber that came from hundreds of old demolished sheds, barns, fences, porches & lean-tos in the district. Most of the paint, at least the earlier coats, would have been lead-based. *Smoke particles carrying lead & other toxic chemicals from these ancient paints would have wafted up & into the ribs & pizzas being cooked just above the embers*. Oh, dear. Modern life is so complicated.


They would have used scrap lumber because it is readily available for nothing
and once ignited, burns very hot, as the paint, chemicals, toxins will burn off..
but..some will be left behind to impart a rather unique flavour on the meat.

UMmmm! Tasty ..just the thing you need for a Pigpicking (pulled pork) LUAI
BBQ. Hawaian music (Don Ho), hula dancers, toxic smoke...
,,and me and you, of course!


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