# What would you do for happiness? (Don't worry, it is a financial conversation)



## jack cash (Nov 17, 2012)

Thought I'd throw this out here to see what people thought about it.

So here goes...
I have a friend who has fought depression most of her life, she has never really been happy with anyone she has been in a relationship with, and has consistently struggled financially for the 10 years I have known her. She's now dating this guy that she has known for years who probably has less money than a 15 year old boy...maybe even less. I don't think he's kept a job longer than 3 months his entire life and he's been in school off and on for 10 years...but never graduating from anything. So obviously this is the wrong choice for a 30 year old woman who would like to have kids. However, he makes her REALLY happy...I have never seen her so happy in all the time I have known her.

As a friend I just sit back and keep my mouth shut, but it makes me sad that she won't be able to settle down with a house and kids due to lack of money. They don't live together because she can't afford to keep him and he doesn't work enough to pay the bills, so he lives at home with his parents and they pay all of his bills.

So what would you do? What would you do as the friend or as the girl? My wife and I are financially literate and it just hurts us to see this play out...but she's happy.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Not money related ... "One of the four possible ways to cope with any difficult situations is to change your perception of the situation ..." http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201211/learning-the-daisies


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I could imagine her getting pregnant at this point. It's a scene that has been played out many times. Hope she's going to remain smart about it. Not much else you can do but be a friend to her and support her. They're going to do what they want regardless of what you say or do.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

If the genders were reversed, would you have the same concerns?


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> If the genders were reversed, would you have the same concerns?


Yes, but I still wouldn't interfere unless they asked me for advice.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I too have fought depression all my life. So many doors have been closed to me because of it. But I have learned a few things.

Try Sam E. This is a non prescription remedy for depression, it did for me what antidepressants were supposed to do but never did. Try it for 3 weeks or a month. The effects are subtle. I took it for a week and asked myself " Is this stuff working? Do I feel any different?" the answer came back, "No, I just sort of feel normal" " Wait a minute, how long has it been since I felt normal 7 days in a row?". Have been taking it for years and keep getting better and better. Unlike drugs, it has no bad side effects. It is a natural substance we all have in our bodies. Some of us don't seem to have enough. In Europe it has been the #1 cure for depression since the seventies. Full name, S adenosyl L merthionine.

One side effect of the Sam E is that it cured my sore back and sore knees. I have been heavy all my life and eventually my knees and lower back felt the strain. Back aches and sore knees were something to cope with every day. 3 weeks after I started taking the Sam E the back aches and sore knees disappeared never to return. Sam E is the only thing that will regrow worn joints although vitamin c helps. O yes the Sam E also cures liver disease. Nerves, joints and liver are the main things it cures. Although, as a methyl donor it takes part in 35 different chemical reactions in the body.

Along with it I take Vitamin B6, B12 and Folic acid. You need them for the Sam E to work. These will go a long way to curing depression by themselves. If I run out of Sam E just the vitamins will carry me for quite a while.

Another thing I have been using lately is a SOTA Brain Tuner. This is a little electronic device which stimulates the production of beneficial brain chemicals. When you stop laughing you might look up an interview Pete Townsend did in 1983 about how he kicked heroin, cocaine, sleeping pills, Ativan and alcohol addiction in a week using a primitive version.

http://www.thewho.net/articles/penthouse_1983.htm

Then there is diet, and general health habits. Fresh fruit and vegetables good. Bread or anything containing wheat, bad. Especially in my case. Your results may vary. Try going on a diet of fruit, salads and vegetables for one week. Cut out coffee, tea, alcohol, drugs and tobacco if possible. Then add foods back one at a time. I noticed when I did this, the day I added bread I felt real lousy. I never noticed the difference before because I ate bread every day and felt lousy every day so to me this was an eye opener.

Something else that got rid of a number of psychological problems very easily and at no cost, was tapping on acupuncture points with my fingers. Called Emotional Freedom Technique. It sounds goofy but give it a try. I did and was surprised how effective it is for quick, easy and permanent relief. In your friend's case the tapping might be particularly effective in breaking bad habits if you get my drift.

So there are a few things I have learned about. They helped me, I know they have helped others. Give them a try, what do you have to lose?


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

I have to wonder if this happening ?

Is she using an irrational standard to gauge her esteam ? With all the modern technology around which few are responsible for developing which most do not understand I think we live in a time it is very easy to say to ones self "who am I to think & judge ?"

Your "self," your "I," is your mind, i.e., your concepts, ideas, beliefs, in short your philosophy, which determines the extent of your ability to think & judge. When a person has rerelinquished his judgement, deferring that responsibility to others, they have, in effect, sacrificed thenmselfs & ends up literally "selfless, suffering an identity crisis."

It would not surprise me @ all if she is using an irrational standard which could be "what this guy thinks about her" for gauging her esteem. Which is not a rational standard & is effecting all her other value judgements.

Perhaps if you can give her confidence to be independent & understand no substitute can do her thinking, as no pinch hitter can live her life.

This may not seam it has anything to do with money but when a person becomes powerfull money will flow to them easier.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Do you really think that once the infatuation runs off, that the depression will not come back, in spades. He's a loser. 30 years old and lives at home. Anyone that wasn't depressed would have dumped him a long time ago, but perhaps her bar was set a lot lower. The bar will eventually reset itself.

It's a little like drinking a problem away. It works for a little while, but eventually you sober up and all your problems are still there ... plus a headache.

Anyway, I doubt there is anything you can do. She will need to make the decision herself. I don't know much about depression. With me, it is always just temporary (until my stocks go back up.lol.), but I do know that making bad decisions never speeds up the recovery.

Ask yourself, how can what you explained, end well? I think you know the answer to that and it is probably why you posted the question in the first place. Good luck to you and your friend.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Winston Churchill used to call his bouts with depression "The Black Dog"........and although I've never personally suffered from it I've had peripheral exposure by way of my wife's daughter's friend, (whom I _saw_, but never _met_).............an extremely attractive young woman, she'd had it most of her life.......met a guy, doing well, started a business......then something went wrong, (as it apparently so often does in these cases).....O.D.d......dead in her early 30s.

And there was nothing anyone could have done about it, because if not 'then', perhaps 'later'.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

it's not just girls who are depressed, many normal girls are like that, for some reason they love broke *** out of jail type of guys.... there's nothing you can do but to watch that ship wreck sooner or later


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

If I were a Freudian type (which I'm not!), I might wonder whether your friend has such a low sense of self-worth that she subconsciously feels this men is all she deserves.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

By the sounds of it,what makes this women such a catch?To be fair why would a successful guy that's got his shirt and house in order pick her?they sound like a match perhaps.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

donald said:


> By the sounds of it,what makes this women such a catch?To be fair why would a successful guy that's got his shirt and house in order pick her?they sound like a match perhaps.


Maybe's she's hot?

Our society still judges a woman's value by her appearance and men by their financial/career success.


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## Dutch1 (Nov 17, 2012)

MoneyGal said:


> If the genders were reversed, would you have the same concerns?


This isn't a gender vs gender debate. That post handed nothing to this thread. 

to the OP.. 

I`m a person who is interested in money because a few of my main goals and hobbies involve it. I like sports cars, and its my dream to own a super car, I certainly won't get there without some smart financial moves. For others, its a sense of worth that drives them to be rich. For a few, money has NOTHING to do with their happiness, and I think each one of us here has a little envy towards them deep down.

In her situation, as she sounds to not care so much about money, maybe she needs to step back and look at his character.. maybe he is a nice guy that makes her happy, but overall, does she really want a guy who can't even take care of himself let alone a family of their own?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

It was a point of genuine curiosity. I'm a mom, I work, I have two girls, and I think about the fact that amongst my peers, work is sometimes (even "often") considered optional for women, and non-optional for men. I don't know whether that is changing / will change, but I am interested in this.


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## jack cash (Nov 17, 2012)

I find the replies interesting... I went through a lot of the same thoughts...except for the depression advice. She's a good friend but I avoid medical advice, and I also learned a long time ago not to try to convince anyone they're making a bad choice when it comes to love. You will never, ever, make them change their mind. 

MoneyGal, I would feel the same way if she was a guy, but with a guy I would feel more comfortable calling him out if he was dating a girl that wasn't contributing AND they were looking at getting more serious. 

It is a painful situation because I want her to be happy AND economically stable...but that is me putting my definition of happiness on her. At the end of the day people live their own lives...but why can't they save for retirement, be financially responsible, AND happy?


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

It seems there is a lack of motivation within the individual to get to what she wants. It seems he is similar. So they have that in common and make each other happy. If it works for them, then it should be okay with you. But if they want financial stability and kids, they'll need to find the motivation to change what they are currently doing to support that lifestyle.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I fully agree sherlock.Even if she was hot thou........would she likely land a top tier guy?(10 yrs of unemployment ect)I'm a single guy now in my thirties and i have to say ''looks'' do come off the top spot now when looking for someone long term(I don't think a young 30 guy who is building assets/networth)is going to want to date her(looks fade)

In dating and courting usually people seek there own level......Also,Life is long(80 plus yrs)all is not lost......they could/can build wealth/stability.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Depression is something that requires ongoing medical support, maybe this guy is the only one that comes across as being non- judgmental to her. Maybe he is the only one that never speaks of her depression and that's why she likes him. 
Maybe he is as ill as her and they connect for that reason.


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Taking a slightly different tack here - some may be interested in the article by Margaret Wente - G&M Nov 10th on Sexual Economics: Why Guys Won't Grow Up
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/why-wont-guys-grow-up-sexual-economics/article5172942/

I can't help but think that many guys today, perhaps, don't try as hard to win the minds and hearts of women, because, as Wente suggests - they don't have to!
Second paragraph in the article goes like this...
"One widely overlooked factor is the scarcity of men. As buyers in a buyers’ market, they’re on the right side of supply and demand. The price they have to pay for sex – in terms of commitment, time and money – is at a record low. Plus, women are more inclined than ever to say yes. “Today’s young man faces a sex life that probably would have exceeded the most optimistic imagination of most men throughout history,”
I have my concerns, as the father of 2 boys. I sense that being the dad of 2 girls may be equally disconcerting.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Interesting article Dubmac! Makes sense to me... I've always dated up in age because I found guys my age to be far too immature. So many "manchilds" out in the world nowadays...


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

dubmac said:


> Taking a slightly different tack here - some may be interested in the article by Margaret Wente - G&M Nov 10th on Sexual Economics: Why Guys Won't Grow Up
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/why-wont-guys-grow-up-sexual-economics/article5172942/


Interest article, thanks for posting it, but the claims it makes just don't match my own experiences. When I was in university only 5 years ago, if there were more girls than guys, it was definitely not noticeable. I was in comp-sci where a typical class had 50+ guys and about 3 or 4 girls, but in the non-tech electives I took like psychology and history, the ratio seemed roughly 50-50. I've seen statistics saying more women are pursuing higher education than men, but I think those statistics must be from the US because I've noticed no such trend during my academic career here in Canada. Also, just about every female friend/acquiantance I knew had a boyfriend, whereas I'd estimate maybe half of my male friends had girlfriends.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Young&Ambitious said:


> Interesting article Dubmac! Makes sense to me... I've always dated up in age because I found guys my age to be far too immature. So many "manchilds" out in the world nowadays...


Didn't you wonder what was wrong with them if they couldn't get girls their own age? It's not unusual for adults to be in relations with several years (or even many years) of a difference, but I mean in high school if a guy in grade 12 is going out with a girl in grade 10 he's probably not very desirable.


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