# RIM climbing



## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Up over 6% today as of right now. Apparently some takeover rumours are floating around that Samsung is looking at Rim.

I bought in at $15.95 last Wednesday but might sell for a quick profit.


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

Make sure you sell before any of the following occur:
(1) quarterly earnings call
(2) either CEO talks to the press
(3) any stock analyst says anything about RIM


I'm being factious but my point is that the only time stock jumps is when there are rumours of change (takeovers, management shakeups). Any official information from the company makes the share price drop.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Sell order is in but price is dropping again and I was at $18.20. Maybe tomorrow!


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

just saw this:
Shares of Research In Motion jumped more than 8 percent on Tuesday after a tech blog said the BlackBerry maker was actively seeking to sell itself to South Korean smartphone rival Samsung Electronics. 

this is a contradiction to what the CEO of RIM said last month though.
one more red flag.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Actively seeking to sell itself = CEO speech for "uh oh, we have a big problem that we haven't disclosed and are desperate to sell ourselves so that the problems will go on someone else's book as goodwill"


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

My Blackberry 9900 died today, it's the never-ending reboot issue, cause unknown, solution unknown.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Safe mode and restore.

1. boot info is shot
2. your SSD is shot.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I also bought it like Ihatetaxes for $15.68 and I am purely playing it for a quick profit as well. I will continue to hold here as long as it keeps going up, I think everyone expects the bad news so no one is surprised by anything at this point so everything is baked into the price.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

My notification light just blinks on and off about every 15 seconds and the screen stays blank, and if I plug it into my computer I hear the device connect/disconnect sound. Safe mode, backup battery, OS reinstall no worky, pretty sure it's a paperweight now. Apparently this is only effecting a small number of users but it is a well known issue for the 9900, I'm bummed mine only lasted 8 weeks. If I can swap my BB with a new one I will probably end up reselling that and slum the next 6-12 months on a Nokia E73. I can't say I'm big fan of any current gen Android phones. Even the Galaxy Nexus has got random shutdown issues.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Firmware restore?

It's a boot loader issue, so what you did won't help.

Interestingly, I had the same problem with my iPhone. It turns out that PC installing iPhone firmware = bad. MAC installing iPhone firmware = fix.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Samsung just denied wanting to buy RIM. Drop tomorrow. Typical pump and dump.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Ihatetaxes said:


> Up over 6% today as of right now. Apparently some takeover rumours are floating around that Samsung is looking at Rim.
> 
> I bought in at $15.95 last Wednesday but might sell for a quick profit.


Inevitably, there will be few rumours like that. As Causalien said, "Typical pump and dump", hence the reason I don't let an increase like the above evaporate completely; no need to sell all, but book some profits and keep for the dump days at these prices.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

The reality will set in once everyone denied the buyout rumor. Then people will start to wonder: "Why? What did they see?"

At the moment, it's important for those playing this to look at their cash reserve and extrapolate how long RIM can burn their cash. Because all buyers are aware of this and will tease and lull until that date, when RIM absolutely must sell or declare bankruptcy. A week before that date. You buy RIM volatility.

I've watched so many tech companies burn that this is becoming too predictable.


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

interesting article in the globe and mail today - apparently Prem Watsa (CEO of Fairfax Financial) is busy buying much RIM these days. Prem has a reputation of having some good foresight in things financial as he was noted as being accurate in his predictions on the credit crisis etc...

I don't know why he is buying the shares, but if *he's* buying, then, this should all be quite interesting....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-watsa-at-heart-of-rim-revamp/article2311530/


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

RIM another 3% down.... Anyone bought?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's encouraging the Prem sees value. I won't buy RIM, though!


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

I always say I should short it every time it's hopped up to $18. Maybe I will next time


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

doctrine said:


> I always say I should short it every time it's hopped up to $18. Maybe I will next time


Hell.....but now it's $15  $2 lower BV...so tempting , but so scary


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

rimm shares are dead money unless someone buys them out... to get back to $100 stock they need to compete with apple and android and they will never do that... I know never say never but in this situation it's never for sure


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

blin10 said:


> rimm shares are dead money unless someone buys them out... to get back to $100 stock they need to compete with apple and android and they will never do that... I know never say never but in this situation it's never for sure


Not even "unless someone buys them out", but every rumor and speculation about potential buyer will have positive influence on stock price


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

So many think RIM is a useless/worthless/outdated & soon to be bankrupt company, but it isn't a dead company just yet.


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## Betzy (Feb 7, 2011)

Amen, not done yet


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## King Tut (May 3, 2009)

T. Gal, I agree with you... it is not dead yet!


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> So many think RIM is a useless/worthless/outdated & soon to be bankrupt company, but it isn't a dead company just yet.


T.Gal
that is exactly what a trader has to have.
conviction.
i am sure u will be fine in the long run.
if not long run , during this run then


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Short-run, I'm fine; long run, someone will buy it. 

Not a fair comparison, but if GND jumped 120% or something like that, surely RIM would get a decent premium too. Not worried.


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## MikeT (Feb 16, 2010)

Rim is a dying company. The longer this death takes, the less valuable their IP becomes. Yes there is still value, but it is salvage value only at this point. Management is asleep at the wheel heading for the waterfall, and they appointed their clone to head guy thinking we wouldn't notice.

I would go no where near this stock. Yes there is takeover potential, but these two are too emotionally involved to make the right decisions. This will either end up as a bankruptcy or hostile bid. 

If I was Samsung, I'd wait for the auctioning off of the ip after the bankruptcy.

If you don't think I'm right, go down to Costco and have a gander at the best blackberry you can find. Piece of crap in comparison to iPhone4s. Better yet, fiddle around with a playbook. Wow, useless.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

I am not a huge fan of RIMM as some might have gathered from other threads (though I took a small position for the hell of it), but I disagree about the Playbook sucking. With a price point of $199, you get a tablet that is technically superior to the iPad 2 in many ways for less than 40% of the cost.

The biggest issues with the Playbook will be resolved in February with an update to allow for native email and access to the Android app store. It's not as large as Apple's, but it's still a huge jump.

Or consider that the 16-gig Playbook now goes for as much as a Kobo Vox eReader with some tablet functionality. 

Of course investors are probably not thrilled that the previously-$500 device is selling for $200, and there were massive write-downs because of that. I'm not suggesting the Playbook development and introduction to the market was done well either.

I'm simply saying for a $200 tablet, it is a very impressive piece of hardware whose major limitations are soon to be addressed. If I had to pay $500 for it, I might feel otherwise, but it's not really fair or accurate to call it "useless."


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

financialnoob said:


> but it's not really fair or accurate to call it "useless."


I agree with a lot on both sides of the argument, but to call this company useless and crappy [and some have labelled their products as garbage], it just isn't correct IMHO. 

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/01/27/fairfax-raises-its-bet-on-rim/


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## MikeT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well the market place disagrees. They couldn't sell playbooks until they gave away their profit margin. Currently, they are NOT CAPABLE of competeing head to head with apple. And yet you have clone boy saying all they need is some PR and magically they will blow apple out of the water with the same crap products they continue to try to pawn off as innovative.

I think I read something about some DND execs asking if they could take a gander through their headquarters to pick out their new offices early.

Honestly, have you ever owned an iPhone/iPad?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I remember back in the day when IBM was producing the most expensive but under performing pc's ... Dell was eating it's lunch


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

These days, Apple is on top to stay. It's the end of history in tech.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I played with the playbook today and it is surprisingly smooth, but really lacks in the ease of use department. I am also waiting until I hear the announcement of two awesomer products that has better screens around March so that it will be easier on my eyes.

Ipad 3 and Asus Transformer Prime 2.


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## jtc (Oct 1, 2011)

Causalien said:


> I played with the playbook today and it is surprisingly smooth, but really lacks in the ease of use department.


I agree. I was quite impressed when I played with one at the office a few weeks ago. Did they release it way too early? Absolutely. Is it a bad device? Not at all. QNX should be very interesting when it eventually makes its way to phones. 

Other thoughts: _[coming from a twenty something know-it-all CS grad ]_

1) This stock wouldn't be trading under 40 in a good economy.
2) Google will eventually dominate this market. This will be beneficial for RIM(well, more so than Apple dominating anyway) since they will have access to a huge repository of apps if they allow access to run them. They will have the whole corporate security thing going along with the huge app repository once they get the OS down. They will dominate the corporate world for years to come.
*3) Don't bet against Waterloo grads. EVER!*


More food for thought: Do you honestly believe you'll make more money holding Apple or RIM over the next ten years? =-0


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I just got my brickberry replaced with a blackberry, all is well. I also tried the playbook iPad thing when it came out and it really is super snappy compared to the iPad 2, almost felt like I was on a full blown PC. I only wish there was a 10" version as well, maybe they are saving that for the next iteration out this spring.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I didn't notice any difference between snappiness of Ipad2 and playbook. And, sorry, no 10 inch = no buy from me. I want a tablet for my eye, otherwise I'd just stick to a phone. Then again, I am probably not the demographic that RIMM is targeting.


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## somecanuck (Dec 23, 2011)

The Kindle Fire really puts the nail in the coffin for Playbooks in the US. It's virtually identical hardware but with a much better OS and way more features & uses as a result.

I still think RIM would be better off splitting into hardware and software divisions, and migrating their entire platform to Android. The hardware division could provide hardened Android phones with tighter platform integration. The software division could migrate everything to Android and enhance the current platform to bring more security features over. It'd be like Palm did, but hopefully without the crashing and burning.


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## GOB (Feb 15, 2011)

jtc said:


> 2) Google will eventually dominate this market. This will be beneficial for RIM(well, more so than Apple dominating anyway) since they will have access to a huge repository of apps if they allow access to run them. They will have the whole corporate security thing going along with the huge app repository once they get the OS down. They will dominate the corporate world for years to come.


What's your basis for this? iOS is being adopted much faster in the corporate than Android for obvious reasons. Imagine an IT department having to configure 100s of different phones/tablets with various versions of Android running on them. It would be a nightmare compared to the ease that Apple offers. Just look at iPad numbers in enterprise. Android has had over a year now and their tablet share is minuscule. We also all know how hard it is to change corporate philosophy. If they are using Apple and it's working they are going to stick with them, just as many still do with RIMM when it's clearly no longer even the best option.




andrewf said:


> These days, Apple is on top to stay. It's the end of history in tech.


Glad to see you're coming around . In all seriousness there is no reason to believe Apple won't be the dominant tech player for at least the next several years. They have the growth numbers, the dominance, the innovation, the security and a unique business model that no other company has. Why wouldn't you expect them to lead?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

GOB said:


> Glad to see you're coming around


You did understand the sarcasm, right?  I'm with you; at least for the next 3 to 5 years [Mr. Jobs saw to that].


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## somecanuck (Dec 23, 2011)

GOB said:


> What's your basis for this? iOS is being adopted much faster in the corporate than Android for obvious reasons. Imagine an IT department having to configure 100s of different phones/tablets with various versions of Android running on them.


Eh, I don't know about that line of reasoning. iMacs could be a single model in the corporate too, and they're not popular. Any corporation could enforce a single model of Android phone if that was their concern. FWIW, we have ~3,000 workstations, ~300+ servers, and some crazy number of Blackberries at my workplace. Android and iPhones connect fine to the network as well.


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## GOB (Feb 15, 2011)

Toronto.gal said:


> You did understand the sarcasm, right?  I'm with you; at least for the next 3 to 5 years [Mr. Jobs saw to that].


I certainly did...hence the "in all seriousness"


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## GOB (Feb 15, 2011)

somecanuck said:


> Eh, I don't know about that line of reasoning. iMacs could be a single model in the corporate too, and they're not popular. Any corporation could enforce a single model of Android phone if that was their concern. FWIW, we have ~3,000 workstations, ~300+ servers, and some crazy number of Blackberries at my workplace. Android and iPhones connect fine to the network as well.


Studies have shown that Macs are more cost-effective in enterprise. The reasons may be varied but it makes sense to me that supporting a single model is easier than supporting multiple models and this is more true on phones which while a bunch of them all run Android, they are not the same in terms of interface, security etc. Each OEM can take Android and make modifications. 

The reason Macs aren't popular (yet) stems from my point that companies like to stick with the status quo and what they're familiar with. Most companies are even reluctant to upgrade Windows, many still sticking with XP. Mac share in the enterprise is steadily growing though as people are starting to bring their own machines to work, forcing companies to support them. 

My company allows email to be linked into personal iPhones and iPads, and the company phone they provide is a Blackberry. Android is not supported. This is due to one or both of the following, I would assume:

1. Too few people have Androids to make it worthwhile supporting them (I am aware of the market share statistics but my observations are that professionals use either Blackberries or iPhones - rarely do I see Androids)
2. It is too much of a challenge to provide support to Androids

If a company deploys a single model to solve this problem, why not stick with Blackberry or iPhone? Both are far more secure and still easier to integrate.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

MikeT said:


> Honestly, have you ever owned an iPhone/iPad?


OMG ITS BETTER THAN SEX!!!!!!111eleven


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## somecanuck (Dec 23, 2011)

GOB said:


> Studies have shown that Macs are more cost-effective in enterprise. The reasons may be varied but it makes sense to me that supporting a single model is easier than supporting multiple models and this is more true on phones which while a bunch of them all run Android, they are not the same in terms of interface, security etc. Each OEM can take Android and make modifications.


I'd like to see the studies, although I suspect they're self-serving in that the sponsor sells Macs or something. We use PCs and they're all the same model, or maybe two or three at most as machines are replaced every 3 years on lease. Same with the phones, one model is purchased.



GOB said:


> Mac share in the enterprise is steadily growing though as people are starting to bring their own machines to work, forcing companies to support them.


Unless you're an executive, that approach doesn't work. Good luck with legally mandated security policies, or connecting to the network without having your MAC address allowed through the switches, or joining the domain.



GOB said:


> My company allows email to be linked into personal iPhones and iPads, and the company phone they provide is a Blackberry. Android is not supported.


Unless you mean that your company actually services the devices, it'd be the same for an Android phone as it is for iPhones. Assuming that your company uses Outlook, both iPhones and Android phones connect to it via MS Exchange with ActiveSync.



GOB said:


> If a company deploys a single model to solve this problem, why not stick with Blackberry or iPhone? Both are far more secure and still easier to integrate.


Baseless unless you can provide evidence. I'm not seeing it.


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## Mr.Good.Vibes (Jan 30, 2012)

*RIM call options*

Any feedback on 2yr long term RIM call options with a strike of $20? It HAS to come back, doesn't it???


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## MikeT (Feb 16, 2010)

No it doesn't. Nortel went to zero and so will rim. 

Change those to puts and you'll make yourself some cash.

If you have any doubts just look at rim's latest superheroes and tell me if you think they are capable of saving the day.


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## MikeT (Feb 16, 2010)

Jtc: Didn't Nortel employ alot of Waterloo grads? Apple probably does too. You'll soon figure out that what school you went to stops mattering after about 3 years or so.

Bottom line: it doesn't matter how well you execute the wrong plan.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'd be shocked if RIM went to zero. They'd be bought out for their IP long before that.

And yes, there are tonnes of Waterloo grads at Apple. Same as with Google, MSFT, Amazon, etc. etc.


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## buhhy (Nov 23, 2011)

It seems unlikely that RIM would go bankrupt. At the same time, I can't see the Canadian government letting go of Canada's symbol of innovation so easily, especially to a foreign party.

Really, all of RIM's hopes depend on BB10, a little PB OS2 success can't hurt either.


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## jtc (Oct 1, 2011)

MikeT said:


> No it doesn't. Nortel went to zero and so will rim.


How is this even remotely comparible? Nortel was swimming in debt. RIM has always been responsible financially.

RIM does have some major problems. The most honest accord I have read regarding the internals at RIM come from a OS coop student can be found in the following blog: 

http://ndickson.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/research-in-motion-maintenance-in-stagnation


You almost have to *try * to be this bad. RIM underestimated the competition and assumed it wouldn't be replaced by competitors. From what I can see, from the playbook functionality and a few RIM employees I have spoken to, things seem to be getting better. I don't believe they will be ousted from the cooperate market anytime soon, especially after we start seeing Google dominate the consumer market. (3-5 years IMO)

Like I said, RIM will be able to profit from this since they will have the option of running Android apps. Also, it would be extremely easy for Android developers to natively convert applications to run on the BB OS.(Both Android and QNX run java)


[email protected]$1100 or [email protected]$40? I know where I'll be putting my money.


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## mgr1397 (Feb 21, 2012)

Well RIM is really doing well -.-!


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## SlowandSteady60 (Feb 19, 2012)

This company baffles me to no end. Unfortunately for me, I've rode the elevator all the way down and hoping to ride it back up again. My problem is with the media and their mudslinging towards this company every time someone there burps. There have been companies in the red that have pulled off far worse things than RIM that have lived to tell about it and make a profit in the end. It seems the media wants Apple to be the darlings and RIM to fail. I just don't get it. But for anyone who has a few minutes to read, perhaps give this article a look over and see just how powerful this phone is. And remember that RIM has been playing in the black all along. Maybe somehow the company can slowly get some support back. Time will tell. Support our Canadian companies.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...-not-to-give-up-on-blackberry/article2354189/


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## killuminati (Mar 14, 2011)

Looks like its close to the all-time low again. Trading under 4 times p/e.

Just need the bad press to stop!

I don't own any but I'm strongly debating.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

No BB10 devices until 2013, nothing new to show at MWC 2012 

They can't be this slow, they are ending themselves...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ddkay said:


> No BB10 devices until 2013, nothing new to show at MWC 2012
> 
> They can't be this slow, they are ending themselves...



No kidding. I heard the playbook just got email support?

I was calling them out long before the media jumped all over them. Sure they could be underrated now thanks to media and bounce back someday, Apple did. 2013 is way too slow.. I wouldn't be too worried about missing the upside anytime soon


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Is there people on this thread that still like RIM and are taking a chance? I see no hope in this company and for the 4th/umpteeth time, recommend shorting this stock if it sees anything above $18 as every time it's jumped up, it comes back down. This company is probably only a year or so away from actual earnings losses, because revenue decreases are accelerating.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

PlayBook 2.0 got .apk support with Android app player, native e-mail and native PIM (calendar and contacts), basically everything except BBM. No idea why BBM was left out?

I don't understand how Microsoft can redesign Windows from scratch every 3 years and RIM can't even add native app support in the same period. Obviously bad management is still in town. :|


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

When the founder come back in 2 years, they'd have more clout to move the company ram over the institutional imperative and put out a new product. OH wait, they didn't get fired.


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