# Al Quaida is now clamining to be the winner in Iraq?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Al-Quaida is having a field day in the Arab world by declaring a "moral victory"
over the US in Iraq and their pullout after 9 years.
Here's what Al-Quaida have to say about it...

<from online sources>
BAGHDAD (AP) — T*he U.S. pulled its troops out of Iraq because its economy is collapsing and it needed to save money, an al-Qaida front group said in a message posted on its website Wednesday,* its first online comment since the U.S. completed its pullout last month after nine years of war.

Al-Qaida was one of the main U.S. enemies in Iraq. It was behind some of the deadliest attacks on U.S. soldiers, Iraqi security forces and American-backed government institutions.* Since the U.S. pullout, al-Qaida and other Sunni militants have stepped up attacks on Shiites, killing more than 170 people since the beginning of the year and raising concern that the surge in violence and an escalating political crisis might deteriorate into a civil war.[/B}

In an audio message, a spokesman for al-Qaida's Islamic State of Iraq who identified himself as Abu Mohammed al-Adnani said "America has been defeated in Iraq."
"They pulled out because its economic and human losses were unbearable," al-Adnani said. "America's bankruptcy and collapse is imminent. This is the real reason behind the withdrawal." . 
<end quote>

Vietnam all over again...after nearly ten years of struggle and tens of thousands of US lives lost, not to mention millions
of Vietnamese lives lost..they hightailed it out of there with their tails between their legs. No amount of bombing
or technology is going to win a war where the people are not wanting to adopt foreign influence of power or
ideals. 

and so it continues, just like Vietnam and other places that the US has tried to instill their sense of freedom and the "American Way" on a population that are just interested in.... surviving from day to day.

Afghan is next....Canada has already pulled out..while the US is still there the next president will no doubt..be pulling their troops out of there because of the state of the economy....and the struggle there will continue
until the Taliban and Al-Quaida return...chants and slogans everywhere..."Death to America!"

Al-Quaida: "You blinked first America! We will continue our struggle against you!"
Lesson for America: Don't get involved in fights that you can't possibly win!

as the saying goes.."as much as things change, some things remain the same."*


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

In other words,

America is SNAFU.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> In other words,
> 
> America is SNAFU.


I didn't say that. 

What I was trying to imply that after 9/11 'Dubya" went gunning for anyone connected with Bin Laden to blame the whole senseless 9/11 tragedy on Al-Quaida *to take the heat off themselves*...their lax airline security and gov't depts that *didn't co-operate with each other when the warnings came clearly in August of 2001*....warnings that this was going to happen..but at the time, the CIA/FBI didn't know where..so instead of stepping up airline security and ensuring carry on baggage and passengers were screen better..they just ignored the warnings and continued on with business as usual.

This also happened in Pearl Harbour, when the Navy Intelligence learned of a Japanese task force heading in the direction of
the Hawaian islands...and history tells us what happened there...asleep at the switch again.

Some of the airports in Europe had much tighter security than the Americans in 1985, when I travelled to Turkey on business for Nortel. At the Turkish airport in Istanbul, *they screened me twice and my luggage*...once by x-ray
and then by a personal pat down and there you couldn't tell them "don't touch my junk"..because they would hustle you off to the a Turkish police station. very quickly! (The women passengers were taken to a separate booth with a curtain and
patted down with female security attendant..so nobody could sneak through with bomb belt.

They found a swiss army knife (3 inch collapsible blade) and took that away from me. 
When I inquired what was going to happen to my knife..the Turkish security guard said "capitan capitan" because he couldn't
speak english..what he meant was that any sharp objects found on your person or luggage would be tagged to your ticket and handed over to the airline captain's security locker., then handed over to the airport police at your destination. 
In Rome, I had to go over to the airport police to give my name, address and passport info and then they gave me my swiss army knife back....(This was 1985!) now .compare that to the US where the hi-jackers got on with box cutters
and "imitation bomb belts".

Dubya and his Republican "boys club"..Dick Cheney (btw don't go quail hunting with him!) rigged up the "WMD' fear mongering to get into Iraq and kick Saddam out so they could capitalize on the rebuilding of Iraq (after the bombing) with US capitalists that were hungry to exploit Iraq and their oil..under the pretense of operation "Iraqi Freedom"..they did manage
to get rid of Saddam..but now there is a void and a power striggle between the Arab factions and the bombings and murders go on. 

Nothing politically has been solved in Iraq after 9 years and 4 trillion dollars of debt added to the US national debt! The US is broke and the Arabs are laughing to themselves!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

carverman said:


> I didn't say that.
> 
> Nothing politically has been solved in Iraq after 9 years and 4 trillion dollars of debt added to the US national debt! The US is broke and the Arabs are laughing to themselves!


Exactly. They made a big boo-boo. 

They pissed away money just to get terrorized at a future date in time. They hate the Americans. It's not over.

FUBAR.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

carverman said:


> Nothing politically has been solved in Iraq after 9 years and 4 trillion dollars of debt added to the US national debt! The US is broke and the Arabs are laughing to themselves!


This seems to be the essence of achieving victory in Asymmetric Warfare.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

LondonHomes said:


> This seems to be the essence of achieving victory in Asymmetric Warfare.


Yup..and the violence continues in Iraq. Today on the news, 26 people killed in a sucide bombing and 60 iinjured..and this is almost a daily occurance these days I guess "Operation Iraqi Freedom" comes at a high cost to everyone..US and Iraqis...just goes to show what happens when a super power meddles in the affairs of a country that doesn't want to be conquered or converted to western ways..the "American Dream" if you will. 

These countries have functioned quite well by themselves with dictators for hundreds of years, with brutal punishment to those that disobeyed the edicts of the dictators. Saddam , although he was a brutal dictator..he did keep the peace, because the alternative was a nasty death to those that tried to change "the way of life" there.
Now there is a power void..and the infiltrators are causing a lot of havoc because they want to turn it into an Islamic fundamentalist state..similar to Iran. 

The same thing is going to happen in Afghanistan...as soon as the US has had enough and pull out...Karzai and his pro-western supporters will be executed brutally by the Taliban and Al-Quaida, and life there will return
to the way it was..the Russians tried to change them in the 80s, but failed and pulled out.

You can't change people and an ideology that doesn't want to be changed.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> 1. Today on the news, 26 people killed in a sucide bombing and 60 iinjured..and this is almost a daily occurance these days
> 
> 2. they want to turn it into an Islamic fundamentalist state..similar to Iran.
> 
> 3. You can't change people and an ideology that doesn't want to be changed.


1. I can't understand this kind of carnage. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/w...omber-attacks-funeral-procession-in-iraq.html

2. Indeed & that is what the Arab Spring seems to have been all about. 

3. No argument there & I'll say no more.

The latest is that anti-Assad Syrians have broken into Cairo embassy. 

Another thing, there was more outrage from the public worldwide [Muslims and non-Muslims], about the soldiers urinating on dead Taliban terrorists than about the innocent men/women/children being blown-up everyday in the ME region.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> 1. I can't understand this kind of carnage.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/w...omber-attacks-funeral-procession-in-iraq.html


There always was violence and killing in Iraq even during the reign of Saddam.

Saddam being from the Sunni tribe took it out on the Shiites (which are closer tied to Iran). In fact the 6 year war between Iraq and Iran was over border disputes (initially) and other political differences (and maybe some religious views thrown in as well, since Khomeni and Saddam were enemies.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/iran-iraq.htm

Whether the Islamic religion allows this brutal violence amongst Moslems..it doesn't seem to matter these
days, as in their upbringing, they will stop their bombing and shooting, face Mecca and pray when the hour requires it...
then resume hostilities.

It has gotten so idealistic and complicated that no-one understands what is going on anymore. 
Saddam took it out on the Kurds, gassing them to try out his WMDs (at that time) and then massacre-ing the Shiiites in the
swamp area around Basra. It didn't matter if you were young or old, man or women..entire familes were slaughtered in the most brutal and sadistic ways. In fact, the Nazis had nothing over Saddam and his henchmen.

However, Saddam did build up Bagdad and the Sunni provinces to make them as modern as possible and improve the living standards of the Sunni Arabs at the expense of the others.

What is happening now..with the US pulling out, is that the old hostilities between the various factions continues at an accelerated pace.. and neither the US trained Iraqi army or police can stop suicide attacks. There are just many of them to create fear and disruption to any public event.

So after 9 years of US occupation, there is no "freedom" there..it was all an illusion created by "Dubya" to get Saddam, because George Bush Sr. wanted to..but couldn't in '91, because the UN mandate then was to kick Saddam out of Kuwait..
which the US needs for their oil supply. 
Saddam took a gamble then in order to take control of their oil fields stating that Kuwait USED to be a province
of the old area before Iraq was created by the British way back when.

Historically speaking, he was right, but a lot of sand had blown in the desert since those days, and he miscalculated
the US position on Kuwait and those massive oil fields, should belong to him. He miscalculated that he would have
to take on the US and Britain and other countres...and was kicked out in spite of his large arsenal of Russian made tanks and weapons.... and those famous SCUD missiles that he lobbed at Israel to terrorize the poplulation, similar tactics to Hitler's V1 (buzz bombs) and V2s







> 2. Indeed & that is what the Arab Spring seems to have been all about.


Arab Spring is just an rhetorical "buzz word" for a politcal power struggle..it has nothing to do with allowing more freedom
(or democracy as we call it)...one dictator just gets replaced by another dictator through a lot of violence.



> The latest is that anti-Assad Syrians have broken into Cairo embassy.


Well this is just the tip of the iceberg..I think in the coming months there will be a lot of politcal unrest there
and more killing just like in Syria, where scores are gunned down every day in a struggle to maintain power..b
but not necessarily law and order. 

It was once said that WWIII could in fact start in the middle east. Let's hope that cooler heads prevail for
all our sakes....

(Lyrics from Sting)
In Europe and America, there's a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the Russians love their children too

How can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer's deadly toy
There is no monopoly in common sense
On either side of the political fence
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the Russians love their children too

There is no historical precedent
To put the words in the mouth of the President
There's no such thing as a winnable war
It's a lie we don't believe anymore
Mr. Reagan says we will protect you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the Russians love their children too"



> Another thing, there was more outrage from the public worldwide [Muslims and non-Muslims], about the soldiers urinating on dead Taliban terrorists than about the innocent men/women/children being blown-up everyday in the ME region.


One is more of a anti-US political protest (Death to America!) than what is going on between themselves..because they
think that killing each other, blowing up women and children is part of their heavenly given quest.."jihad" whether it
be on foreign enemies or their own amongst themselves. The US Marines didn't realize what an insult that would be
to the Arab world and that is in some ways the same as pe*ing on your grandfather's grave..it probably carries a big penalty 
for any further US-ARAB relations.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just heard that the French are pulling all their forces out of Afghan.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the state of the EU economy and the main reason is that in 9 years of occupation,
there doesn't seem to be that much progress over there. 
Did they ever think that they could turn Afghanistan into another cheap labour manufacturing economy like China?

So now, Canada, France and other countries that were part of the UN mandate to change the lifestyle of the people there from Taliban rule have pulled out..leaving the British and US to "hold the fort" against the onslaught of the Taliban, determined to reclaim what they think is their destiny in Afghanistan.


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