# I'm looking to buy my first condo in Montreal, any tips?



## keepathomas (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm 25 and I'm looking into buying a condo for both living and investment purposes. However, I have no experience with real estate and don't know much about it.


Firstly, is it a good time to buy real estate in Montreal right now?

Secondly, for a better return on property (at resale), should I buy a new condo or a pre-owned condo? 

Thirdly, how long should I own the property before considering selling in order to make a profit?

Fourthly, any recommendations on books/websites/material to better familiarize myself with Canadian real estate?

Sorry for sounding ignorant and thank you all for your input.


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## Jay (May 9, 2012)

See the thread about buying a pre-con condo in Ottawa for a lot of related comments...

1. The question should be - is it a good time for you to buy real estate right now given your aims and goals - will you get what you want or could this be the start of a disaster?

2. Depends on the market - how are pre-construction condos selling? What's the re-sale market like? My impression is both are starting to turn downward....but that's just an impression, and it's more based on Ottawa. Some people buy older condos, fix them up and then try to sell them at a profit. A few people did that in my mother's condo, and I have no doubts they regret it as they'll never recover their reno costs on the unit. They arguably also paid too much, as the market has since shifted sideways or downward. You have to be extremely cautious of the financial and physical condition of existing condos - but at least they have a track record that you can examine. You won't have any idea what the future management of a pre-construction condo will be like - but if you're buying in for investment purposes (speculating the market will go up), you probably won't care.

3. This completely depends on market conditions. A few years ago (or even more recently in some places), you could wait a year or two, and sell any old (or new) condo with a profit, because the real estate market was booming at the time. Those are most of the "I bought for X, sold for X+Y" stories you here (though many of those people fail to consider all of their costs). I don't think anyone would describe the current market as booming, though nobody's really sure where it will go. In different times...say the 1990s, the chances of ever selling for a profit would have been small unless you selected very carefully. We may well be headed back to similar times or worse.

4. Some websites that will give different perspectives (Use google):
- Montreal Sky Scraper Page - a very pro-real estate, pro investment page... you'll find many people who've already bought posting here
- Garth Turner's Greater Fool Blog - a housing bear, who believes you'd be crazy to consider a condo an investment in these times. His arguments about real estate are pretty sound IMO...though I'd be more cautious around his non-real estate investment advice.
- Buzz Buzz Home Montreal - lists a lof upcoming projects, and also has resourcees for potential buyers and investors (again, more pro development)

My general advice and opinion is that if you're buying primarily as a place to live, and plan to stay there for 5 years plus - it's more a matter of finding a place you like and then doing a full analysis of your costs (all of your costs), and doing due diligence on the condo board/management or the builder in the case of pre-con. If you're buying for primarily investment purposes - don't act until you feel you know enough about real estate investing and condos to be acting as an 'expert' on this forum...and even then be careful. The days of easy money are over, and it will be a lot easier to get burned going forward (IMO).


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I have noticed that when someone posts they want to buy a condo "as an investment", the comment is usually succeeded by a qualifier that they don't know much about real estate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/02/vancouver-home-sales_n_1933180.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...home-sales-fall-125-in-august/article4522934/

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busi...using+market+lost+momentum/7397508/story.html

<sarcasm> But yeah, invest. </sarcasm>


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Shop around for the maintenance fees, some will cost you as much maybe more than your mortgage payment. We bought a condo in Vancouver that needed work (the carpets stunk for one and the kitchen was awful) but the price was right and the maintenance was very inexpensive compared to most. That said, you need to check into how well the building is maintained and what the monthly maintenance fee includes (gas for the fireplace? Outside snow clearing? Landscaping? Cable tv? etc...).


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You buy a house to live in, investments are usually not the same thing. When you factor in the interest you pay, the maintenance, upgrades, inflation, etc. you probably won't make money on a house. 

If you buy a place that pays for itself at worst, you own an investment.


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## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

Pick up a copy of William Bernstein's "The Investor's Manifesto" or his previous book "The Four Pillars of Investing." The former is much abridged but covers the same material, in less detail.

TL;DR: historically, real estate is not a good long term investment and an especially bad one to allocate capital to during real-estate bubbles such as the one we're in.

Recent article in G&M: http://theglobeandmail.com/globe-in...nt-coming-back/article6929120/?service=mobile


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