# Ontario Auto Insurance changes



## Toronto_Boy (Apr 9, 2013)

Hello there,

For drivers in Ontario ... any idea when the Auto Insurance rates changes will kick in? Will that even happen at all? (ie: that 15% reduction from 2013 budget) 

I just received the renewal notice and no changes to the premium from last year; in fact a $50 yearly increase. 

I would be interested in hearing from others on this topic. thanks


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Table 1 (ONTARIO PRIVATE PASSENGER AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE RATE FILINGS APPROVED) should help to answer some of your questions. Individual insurance companies will have different effective dates and different rate changes.

http://fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/rates/Pages/q4-2013.aspx

I doubt the average consumer will realize much of a reduction / discount to their current premiums.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The insurance companies are given great leeway on how they determine premiums.

Lowering premiums isn't on their agenda.........so they will simply add another "risk" factor to the equation.

Are you left handed or right handed? Do you own a smartphone? What colour are your eyes?


----------



## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

The other part is lowering rates will likely mean less coverage in some manner. 

Unless the NDP gets the next mandate, and decides to 'nationalize' and build a one entity provincial car insurance coverage ogranisation as is the model in some other provinces, there is still the concept that private firms are underwriting the programs, and as such are in the business to turn a profit in the long term.

My wife takes calls for broken auto glass and processes those claims at an insurer. 
They have in the last 8-10 years seen a rise in the number of 'catastrophy' (or CAT claims, as they call them).
Deny gloal warming , or whatever, but insurance companies are seeing more environmental volatility resulting in more claims over the last 5 years, which is short term in the big picture, but not in terms of annual underwriting performance results.


----------



## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Ponderling said:


> My wife takes calls for broken auto glass and processes those claims at an insurer.
> They have in the last 8-10 years seen a rise in the number of 'catastrophy' (or CAT claims, as they call them).
> Deny gloal warming , or whatever, but insurance companies are seeing more environmental volatility resulting in more claims over the last 5 years, which is short term in the big picture, but not in terms of annual underwriting performance results.


That is not true. Most claims are pushed into "MIG" minor injury guideline with physio and treatment benefits capped at $3500. Try to recover from an MVA with 15 sessions (ie, around $3500) of physio... that is only 2 months. If you think you can, think again when you are in your 50's or 60's.

They have no choice, accident victims have to either claim Tort or CAT to escape MIG... now we are getting technical. The bottom line is, the insurers will make you believe something on the media, until you find out that first hand if you need a claim. I hope no one ever needs to make an OCF claim but gosh it's horrible to deal with them.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

MoreMiles said:


> They have no choice, accident victims have to either claim Tort or CAT to escape MIG...


That is not accurate. You can escape the MIG for a variety of reasons, outside of claiming CAT or Tort. For instance, a simple spine fracture would not fall under CAT or the Minor Injury Guidelines (MIG). The $cap for such an injury would be $50K, not $3500. Additionally, if you have a pre-existing medical condition you may be able to get out of MIG - if you're able to provide "compelling evidence". Lawyers and insurance companies are currently having a lot of fun with the following. 



> An insured person’s impairment does not come within this Guideline if
> the insured person’s impairment is predominantly a minor injury but, based on compelling evidence provided by his or her health practitioner, the insured person has a pre
> -existing medical condition that will prevent the insured person from achieving maximal recovery from the minor injury if he or she is subject to the $3,500 limit referred to in section 18(1) of the SABS or is limited to the goods and services authorized under this Guideline.
> Compelling evidence should be provided using the Treatment and Assessment Plan (OCF-18)
> ...


Source: http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/autobulletins/2011/documents/a-06-11-1.pdf

In order to be categorized as CAT, one needs to follow the following criteria:



> A. CATASTROPHIC IMPAIRMENT
> 
> "Catastrophic Impairment" has been with us since November 1, 1996. The post September 1, 2010 definition of catastrophic impairment follows:
> 
> 3(2)For the purposes of this Regulation, a catastrophic impairment caused by an accident is, paraplegia or quadriplegia;the amputation or other impairment causing the total and permanent loss of use of an arm or a leg; the total loss of vision in both eyes;subject to subsection (4), brain impairment that, in respect of an accident, results in, a score of 9 or less on the Glasgow Coma Scale as published in Jennett, B. and Teasdale, G., Management of Head Injuries, Contemporary Neurology Series, Volume 20, F.A. Davis Company, Philadelphia, 1981, according to a test administered within a reasonable period of time after the accident by a person trained for that purpose, or a score of 2 (vegetative) or 3 (severe disability) on the Glasgow Outcome Scale, as published in Jennett, B. and Bond, M., Assessment of Outcome After Severe Brain Damage, Lancet i:480, 1975, according to a test administered more than six months after the accident by a person trained for that purpose; subject to subsections (4), (5) and (6), an impairment or combination of impairments that, in accordance with the American Medical Association’s Guides to the Evaluation of Permanent Impairment, 4th edition, 1993, results in 55 per cent or more impairment of the whole person; or subject to subsections (4), (5) and (6), an impairment that, in accordance with the American Medical Association’s Guides to the Evaluation of Permanent Impairment, 4th edition, 1993, results in a class 4 impairment (marked impairment) or class 5 impairment (extreme impairment) due to mental or behavioral disorder.


Source: http://www.thomsonrogers.com/sabs-determining-catastrophic-impairment

Fraud is a big problem within the insurance industry. Additionally, therapy clinics, physicians, lawyers, etc. have been milking the system for years - extravagant assessment fees, excessive & uncessary tx plans, etc. It's a dysfunctional system that needs fixing. In the end it results in higher premiums to the consumer.


----------



## Electric (Jul 19, 2013)

If you live in Scarborough or Brampton, and to a lesser extent Richmond Hill/Markham, you are getting a stiff increase this year. Those are the locations with the highest payouts. For the rest of the city, you won't likely see much of a change, unless you had an "event" last year like an accident or a big traffic ticket.


----------



## Green (Mar 25, 2014)

*looking for a cheap car insurance in Ontario*

We have renewed our auto insurance in April. 21% routine increase, with no changes in policy.
I am looking for a no frill cheap basic insurance. I don’t need an insurance, just the valid slip in case I get stopped by police.
There are many insurance compare websites, but they are run by the insurance companies, and they are price-fixing.
With 140 insurance companies in Ontario, it would take me a year to call all of them.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Green said:


> I don’t need an insurance, just the valid slip in case I get stopped by police


Police are the last of your worries, just wait until you cause an at fault accident and are sued for millions of dollars. You may not want insurance but unfortunately in the world we live in you're going to need it.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Perhaps Green is interested in liability insurance, but no collision coverage. Means the other driver would be protected if Green's fault but Green's car not covered. Maybe that's what he meant.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Synergy said:


> Police are the last of your worries, just wait until you cause an at fault accident and are sued for millions of dollars. You may not want insurance but unfortunately in the world we live in you're going to need it.


Not only the chance of a lawsuit, if the other parties are severely injured, but there is also a MOT imposed fine of $5000.00 for driving without insurance in Ontario.
Even if the accident you get into is not your fault, if they find out you are an uninsured driver, you will be sued. If you get caught without insurance, your chances of
getting any auto insurance at reasonable rates in the future will be next to nil. Insurance companies see this as fraud and once you are convicted it goes against your
licence.

http://www.trafficlawparalegal.com/no_insurance.aspx


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

^ - reply to post #10. 

Could be, and that would be an option to help lower his rates. If he's a member of an organization, association, etc. he could look into group insurance rates.


----------



## Green (Mar 25, 2014)

Synergy said:


> Police are the last of your worries, just wait until you cause an at fault accident and are sued for millions of dollars. You may not want insurance but unfortunately in the world we live in you're going to need it.


I only need an insurance to satisfy legality. I don't use my insurance. I just pay for it. Because insurance is compulsory, the companies are guaranteed sales, and have little incentive to give good rate.
I am retired, and don't have accidents. I drive old clunkers, and if my car was totaled, I can replace it easily. I fix my own car, so the insurance is my highest cost in driving.
I am currently with Johnson's insurance company. They used to be cheaper than the rest, but that is changing. I am looking for the cheapest policy. I don't need their services.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Green said:


> I am looking for the cheapest policy. I don't need their services.


Well, some day you just might welcome their services - liability coverage, accident benefits, etc. If you can save a few hundred dollars on your yearly premium then by all means switch and shop around. There will always be a cheaper rate but if you're only saving $20-40 annually, personally I wouldn't waste my time. Unless you get in with a group plan I can't see the rates varying all that much for a driver with a perfect record, retired discount, etc.


----------



## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Just got my August renewal in the mail for my car insurance. Highlighted was "new 20 star rating and rate reduction applies". Looks like I got a 10% discount from last year - about a $130 in savings. So I guess you could say I was wrong since I did realize a small savings. I'm not impressed how they present rates and discounts on the policies. They don't show you your premium without the discount. Don't they know that everyone like's a deal and this should be clearly stated - example: full premium amount, lets say - $1500, discount 20% (multiple property discount, short commute discount), what you pay: $1200. For some reason my policy doesn't show the pre-discounted premium.


----------



## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Look to see if your employer has any group insurance and try them.

My employer set one up this year and I am very happy. Almost half the price of last year. :biggrin:

Otherwise I doubt there will be any savings to be had other than by the usual calling around different insurers.


----------



## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Green said:


> I am looking for the cheapest policy. I don't need their services.


Nobody "wants to use" an insurance or predict accident occurrence. So it is supposed to save you from unexpected financial disaster. It's the same as if you say, I don't need health insurance because I am careful and I can never get sick or ever need it. Really? Look at those Americans without insurance forcing to declare bankruptcy because of their "invincible" attitude.

I wish we live in a wonderful world where there is no unexpected events ever. Unfortunately, we do not... so don't regret your decision. Auto insurance should be considered mandatory, not for legality reason, but to protect your financial, thus rehab health wellness.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

The difference in cost between the minimum and a good policy is very little.

Lets say you get hit, injured, and can't work for a while. Who will pay your living expenses? Rehab etc?

You can't sue the person who hit you for those expenses, and even if you could, a very large number of serious accidents are caused by uninsured drivers who couldn't pay you anyway.

For me, it's about protecting myself from an event I can't really control.


----------

