# How do I kick out tenant?



## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

They agreed to leave Feb 28th, I go today to do some work and they haven't left.

They said, oh tomorrow. Really? Are you kidding me? Guy thinks he knows all the laws, said I can't do a thing.

I was going to change the lock but not sure I can, the rules say you can after eviction but he wasn't evicted.... But they should be gone.

ARGH!


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'll stick to REITs. Saw my father deal with enough of these clowns over the years


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

It is common for tenants to move on the weekends so you can only hope they are out by Monday. If not, you'll have to start filing an L3 application:

http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/Forms/STEL02_111309.html

I guess you could file for money owed, but I haven't heard of anyone winning that case for a few days. Maybe berubeland has more insight on it, but usually it is more effort than it is worth.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Weekend or weekday -- they agreed to leave on the 28th, not the 2nd. Lucky it wasn't rented yet.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I'd chill out about this man. It's a short month afterall, and ended on a thursday. They were being foolish for not leaving on time nor telling you, but if you knew you were showing up on the 1st to do some renos perhaps you should have called last week to make sure they would actually be out on the 28th.

Demanding 2 days rent was bold, and asking for trouble. I hope you haven't inadvertently started something, because it sounds like they were intending on moving out this weekend without hassle.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I asked them on Wednesday and Thursday. It's not like I showed up out of the blue. They started a big thing about how they had all the rights so I said then pay me for the month since it is past the first. They weren't even packed but said they were ready to go on Wednesday!

Do you have tenants? What do you do if you have trades scheduled and paid for to come in and do work to repair things? This was all scheduled so this is costing me a lot of money and time.

Hopefully they are out today, totally messed up my weekend and my week coming up.

Place is now for sale, I really don't have time to deal with degenerates.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

jamesbe said:


> Do you have tenants? What do you do if you have trades scheduled and paid for to come in and do work to repair things? This was all scheduled so this is costing me a lot of money and time.


In Alberta it is legal to get access to your unit if 24 h notice is provided. Just because the tenant is there doesn't mean you can't send workers in.

Find better tenants. Success rate to rent my place is 1-3%.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Do you have a signed letter of them informing you or agreeing to leave by a certain date?

Also depending upon what the work was to be done, I would have had the workers come in and work regardless.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I called my tenant left a message I was going in to show the place. She came while I was there waiting. Said she done but her cousin wasn't. Her cousin called me said I stole his TV and he was going to show up with the cops.

I called the cops they told me if your tenant is out he is not on the lease then he will have to coordinate with me if he wants his stuff.

So she said she was officially. He doesn't have a leg to stand on. Too bad the tenant board isn't open on the weekend.

Anyways he can try all sorts of things he obviously is just trying to be difficult. He must have a boring life.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

hahahaha

This is so fun now. Talked to the neighbour, they aren't cousins, she lied to me. They were a couple and now broke up.

So this is why he is being difficult.

When I went in today he threatened all kinds of actions against me because I entered illegally. But they already left the unit! How can one enter a unit illegally if they are already gone? 

When I entered the unit there was lots of garbage etc, it seemed to me that they left. Then I found furniture in the basement, nothing of much value, except maybe a bunk bed which they may want.

So reading up on the laws I still don't think I can do anything like change the lock. Ontario rules are such BS. 

So I'm going to do nothing on Sunday and on Monday call the board immediately first thing in the morning to have them evicted or find out if I can change the lock etc and give them 30 days to pick up their stuff.


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## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

This is what I would do....just keep the crap safe and change the locks. Put a note on the door in case they want their crap. If they said they'd leave and it looks vacant, than it is. If they charge you for the bunk bed, charge them for the garbage and disposal of the bunk bed.

People like this don't take the effort to sue.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Thanks, I think that is good advice.

I'm working today (worked all weekend now to keep busy while I wait for free time to deal with these people). After work today I plan on going to the unit. Hopefully they have cleared out the remainder of their junk.

If they have not I will post a note like you say and I will change the lock. Posting a note should be reasonable notice that I intend to scrap the contents in 30 days (which is the law). I have no other means of getting a hold of them as they have left and won't return my calls. I will also leave a voice mail with them. I think that is reasonable effort in the eyes of the Landlord and tenant board. I'll keep their stuff in the place packed away for 30 days. Anything unsanitary I can dispose of (not sure if that includes mattresses or not.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

you should probably take pictures of all the stuff, and maybe have a neighbor witness this.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Yes for sure. I'm actually going to take video. I'll start my video before unlocking and walking into the unit. State the date / time etc. And walk in and video what is in the unit.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Did some more digging:
http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/csc/@ltb/documents/resourcelist/173763.pdf

This states that I can turf their stuff immediately following the end of tenancy.


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## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

You've got it. Just do your video, build a case AGAINST them, damages, repairs, etc. If the place is MOSTLY empty and they don't return calls, etc, then they have vacated, end of story. These people are just playing victim. It's a game and it ends when the effort it takes on their part doesn't match the reward. Tenants habitually leave crap and garbage behind so they probably didn't want the bunk bed (no room to pack it).


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

They didnt return. Left a note changed the lock and tomorrow i clean up


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

jamesbe said:


> They didnt return. Left a note changed the lock and tomorrow i clean up


Your story inspired a blog post  http://landlordrescue.ca/deal-abandoned-property-apartments/


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Good post and exactly what I figured out when reading.

But I kept missing the PDF that I posted above. If they gave notice to leave and they leave but there is still lots of junk behind then you can it says "in most cases" dispose of the stuff immediately.

But in my case they are not abandoning the unit. 

Anyways, can you believe this. I went in today to clean up and do some work. Well not much work got done. I spent the ENTIRE day from 9 am until 8pm collecting trash and disposing of it, sweeping the floor etc etc.

I threw out a pickup truck load of garbage! Heck they left close to half of that just in bags alone in the house. A full pickup truck load!

Then, we sorted out the non-trash but at least donateable stuff. That included kids toys, shoes some clothes and pots and pans and dishes. We fill an entire truck of that, to the brim! 

This doesn't include all the dishes we didn't yet pack away (most seemed chipped) or the office chair and other junk. Some little girl is going to miss her teddy bear, we donated about 10 of them, one was human sized.

Unbelievable! 

Oh and bonus for me, $23 in empties.


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## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

$23 for your day! I feel sorry for you and now you miss at least a months rent as it's vacant. What did disposal cost? Let's drive the price of rentals down, because putting up with this crap isn't worth it.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Ah don't feel sorry for me the day wasn't a total waste at least, paid for my lunch LOL.

Disposal was free, the unit is served by a dumpster and it was all garbage so I'm good there.

Also as a bonus under the stairs were 5 BRAND NEW gallons of paint! They must have been there when we bought the unit originally but I never went into the crawl space as there was always tenants there. We took the paint to a store, they tinted it for me and I have free paint to paint the entire unit!

Woot that saved me at least $200!


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Guess it wasn't so bad after all. 
Now if you could only put their names on a "do not rent" list..


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Oh there was also a brand new hot water tank insulating blanket in the bag. I'm going to install that on my tank, will pay me back for years


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I would like to be able to say that your unit being filled with garbage is unusual but it really isn't and I wish the worst pox on the people who invented those shiny words that stick to the walls (available at every stinking Dollarama) sometimes I think my head will explode if I see "faith or love" posted on the walls of another trashed apartment.

Curiously I have noticed that the poorer the people, the more valuables they leave behind. After an eviction I'll go in a pick up 2-3 dollars worth of pennies on the floor. It's simply weird. I wonder what they'll leave behind now that pennies are eliminated


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> After an eviction I'll go in a pick up 2-3 dollars worth of pennies on the floor. It's simply weird. *I wonder what they'll leave behind *now that pennies are eliminated


Trailer trash. Probably the empties, as they are too lazy to take them back to the beer store at 10c a bottle. 

My friend had a next door neighbor that were renters.. The landlord made a mistake of taking in welfare cases as he felt sorry for the mother with 5 kids. 
In the space of several months on the year's lease, they trashed the place and made all sorts of noises inside the unit. 

Lots of strangers showed up at odd hours of the night and you could smell the MJ they were smoking. 
Eldest son got involved with a gang of street racers/druggies and they showed up at all hours of the night, squealing tires. 
One day, a crashed car (not sure if it was the eldest son's or a friend of his)was parked on the driveway of their rental unit in front of the garage.
Not sure if they were trying to turn it into a grow-op, but I felt sorry for the two little autistic (twin boys) of hers to put up with that. 

Finally with a lot of effort, he got them to move...they didn't pay a months rent, but he was glad to get rid of them..as he had to file an insurance claim to repair the insides of his unit..it was very badly trashed and infested with bugs. 
Apparently, it was found out that the mother and her brood' reputation were "well known" to former landlords in the area. 

He (the owner) learned his lesson..and decided to sell it after that.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Another long day, didn't get much done but was there all day, still cleaning up. Filling holes in the walls, fixing flooring that was damaged.

Got my carpet guy in to patch a spot and his uncle is a painter, quoted me on the spot to do the entire unit floor to ceiling baseboards everything for only $1600. Done deal, not worth my time, going to take me a week or more.

So productivity to start Thursday!


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

You gotta find better tenants if you continue in this.

Was this damage from the tenant? and is it classifiable as wear in tear? What happened to the damage deposit?


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

This is Ontario, damage deposit is not allowed ... and that is the issue.

I'm out, I'm going to sell the place it's not worth my time. And the laws are skewed too far to the tenants.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

jamesbe said:


> This is Ontario, damage deposit is not allowed ... and that is the issue.
> 
> I'm out, I'm going to sell the place it's not worth my time. And the laws are skewed too far to the tenants.


Good call.

I honestly think the only "successful" landlords in Ontario are landlords that don't value their time and don't understand math (ie opportunity cost, ROI etc).


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

There is 0 damage deposit allowed? Yikes...

At least here, when people skip town, you have that 1 month buffer from DD, helps reduce the blow.


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## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

jamesbe said:


> This is Ontario, damage deposit is not allowed ... and that is the issue.
> 
> I'm out, I'm going to sell the place it's not worth my time. And the laws are skewed too far to the tenants.


Congrats!


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Well over a week later and about $2500 into the place it looks like a million bucks. Seriously! I had a pro painter paint the place top to bottom, had the bathroom floors done with ceramic (They were 1980's vinyl).

We painted all the 1980's melamine fake oak cabinets high gloss white. Changed all the plugs and switches to white ones, cleaned, vacuumed etc etc. A LOT of work. Today was the last day I wanted to work and we were there from 8:30am till 11pm getting it all complete.

Listing agent came in and we signed the papers should be on MLS Tuesday (wanted to make sure we were done) Picture day is tomorrow.

I'll get some pictures or fire off the MLS, the amount of work we put into this place in a week was amazing really. Too bad I don't really have any before pictures, but basically think like it was a slum and now a high end condo. LOL


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Good call.
> 
> I honestly think the only "successful" landlords in Ontario are landlords that don't value their time and don't understand math (ie opportunity cost, ROI etc).


... I'll pretend you aren't serious.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Good call.
> 
> I honestly think the only "successful" landlords in Ontario are landlords that don't value their time and don't understand math (ie opportunity cost, ROI etc).


I owe $600,000 on $2,300,000 worth of real estate (rentals) some of us do make money on rentals.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Everybody that wasn't completely incompetent made a killing on rentals over the last decade.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

marina628 said:


> I owe $600,000 on $2,300,000 worth of real estate (rentals) some of us do make money on rentals.


?? What does that have to do with anything? I owe $zero on my house - does that mean I make a good purchase?


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

none said:


> Everybody that wasn't completely incompetent made a killing on rentals over the last decade.


Where you are located would influence that.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

RBull said:


> Where you are located would influence that.


Barely.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Dear Four Pillars 
you said I honestly think the only "successful" landlords in Ontario are landlords that don't value their time and don't understand math (ie opportunity cost, ROI etc).
I had to respond to this because we all don't fit a blanket statement like this.You have paid your house off assuming with your own money while other people have paid mine off.I know there are many examples of bad landlords out there or I should say bad investors such as a condo with electric Heat.Most tenants wont be able to afford the bill in the winter months and the condo fees are ridiculous in most cases,you will get more ROI spending more money to get newer and freehold.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

marina628 said:


> Dear Four Pillars
> you said I honestly think the only "successful" landlords in Ontario are landlords that don't value their time and don't understand math (ie opportunity cost, ROI etc).
> I had to respond to this because we all don't fit a blanket statement like this.You have paid your house off assuming with your own money while other people have paid mine off.I know there are many examples of bad landlords out there or I should say bad investors such as a condo with electric Heat.Most tenants wont be able to afford the bill in the winter months and the condo fees are ridiculous in most cases,you will get more ROI spending more money to get newer and freehold.


http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/tenants-paying-my-mortgage/


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I read your blog post and I can't speak for anyone else but my first rental I bought was with 5% down and 5% cash back ,total cash was $2400 and we rented the house for $500 over the costs and used this money to pay the mortgage down than take it in our hands.We had to pay $200 for a set of taps in the 5 years we had the house .We sold this house in 2012 for a $86,000 profit so one way of looking at it is my $2400 turned into $83000 over 5 years.This is very exceptional I know,another 5% down /5% cash back resulted in $28,000 net on a $3600 investment(Sold this one as well in 2010).
From 2009 -2011 we purchased 4 other homes but we used 20% -35% cash down. But we are buying in the Oshawa/Whitby Border and all 4 of the homes we bought has appreciated about 30% and we recently sold one and within 3 days we got over asking price .When we look at what the tenant has paid down on the mortgage in the past 4 years our total cash investment in this house is $112,000 and we walked away with $80,000 profit.
We only buy single family homes and less than 5 years old with unfinished basements.My husband can finish a basement for $18,000 and increase the values by $50,000 within 2-3 months .I have friends who bought older cheaper homes and they may cover their expenses but they will sell their homes for cost not much more.And I know the time factor is going to come up so I will add that my husband got paid $53,000 last year from the rental properties which is not bad considering we still pay mortgages .
Generally the people who fail at being landlords are poorly funded or get into it for wrong reason ,for example they need to move so rather than just selling they talk themselves into being a landlord and then they just take whatever tenant they can find .
Investing in real estate requires as much study as you would do if you are buying a stock and it depends on a persons starting point where /when they should buy if at all.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Sounds like you are flipping, most landlords aren't finishing basements or doing any work at all.

It really depends on your area and the market. It's getting harder and harder to find a good deal in my area that's for sure.


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