# How are your O'Leary Funds doing?



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

It often seemed to me that Kevin O'Leary sounded like he actually knew what he was talking about. However, judging by the performance of his funds, perhaps not!!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ad-500-million-in-redemptions/article2442818/

What say you?


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

If I remember correctly, those funds have mer's in the 2-4% range. :S 

Other mutual fund companies are seeing net redemptions go up too.. IGF and AGF.. people are fed up with the crappy returns and volitility. Add a nasty 2%+ mer to that and you're losing money.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Belguy said:


> It often seemed to me that Kevin O'Leary sounded like he actually knew what he was talking about.


Which KO were you watching? That guy is an idiot!


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Jungle said:


> those funds have mer's in the 2-4%


In that regard he knows exactly what he is talking about... Talk a big talk... keep a high profile... and make a nice profit off the sheep that are dumb enough to let him manage their money... Wash... rinse... repeat...

Cheers!


----------



## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Concur with Jungle. I don't think O'Leary is actually managing these funds directly either. He has done quite well on his Dragons Den and Shark Tank deals, but these are not what you're buying with these funds. Mutual funds are on their way out or at least must become cost competitive with ETFs.


----------



## bettyboop (Dec 13, 2011)

there are 81 comments on that :0 

I always find more merit in the comments than the articles themselves.


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

doctrine said:


> I don't think O'Leary is actually managing these funds directly either.


Correct - the fund management is done by another company called Stanton Asset Management.
Kevin O'Leary simply siphons off his fees from the top.
The fund managers must be getting the usual 2.5% MER and he takes the other 1.5% - that explains the 4% fees.

Given how much times he spends doing TV shows, there is no time left to do any real investing.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Seems Kevin pays his employees well enough. :biggrin:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...back-114000-of-loans-with-duffel-bag-of-cash/


----------



## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Seems Kevin pays his employees well enough. :biggrin:
> 
> http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...back-114000-of-loans-with-duffel-bag-of-cash/


LOVE that he did that - must have been very satisfying and pretty damn fun at the same time!! They should just be glad he didn't decide to pay it in pennies.


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Ihatetaxes said:


> LOVE that he did that - must have been very satisfying and pretty damn fun at the same time!! They should just be glad he didn't decide to pay it in pennies.


Seriously? What's there to love? The guy caused a big hassle at two different financial institutions because he thought it would be 'funny'. I can't believe he didn't realize what a problem it would be.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I agree FP. 

I actually found the behaviour rather immature & inconsiderate. Did he seriously pass the bar exam? :rolleyes2:


----------



## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Give me a break. Its his money and the bank is well paid to service their clients. Really how much of a hassle would it be to count out that much cash????? It's not like he needed millions.


----------



## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

KO's website claims he is an "investor extraordinaire". Not if you go by the performance of the funds bearing his name. Mark McQueen who writes the Wellington Fund blog has been tracking O'Leary funds for years and found them to be mediocre at best.

Don't feel bad for KO though. They are still raking in the fees from the $1.5B still left. Those investors are who we should be feeling bad for.

http://www.wellingtonfund.com/blog/...redeemed-500-million-of-oleary-funds-in-2011/


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

It wasn't really his money, otherwise he would not have given it to the bank, right?

And don't forget *Ihatetaxes,* that you were paying for the interest on his loan while he was a full-time student.


----------



## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Ihatetaxes said:


> Give me a break. Its his money and the bank is well paid to service their clients. Really how much of a hassle would it be to count out that much cash????? It's not like he needed millions.


I think it is not only immature but also foolish. Who would walk around with $100Gs in cash even if it is only for 2 blocks? He wouldn't have found it funny if someone had robbed him when walking around with sackfuls of cash. Sounds pretty dumb to me.


----------



## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> It wasn't really his money, otherwise he would not have given it to the bank, right?
> 
> And don't forget *Ihatetaxes,* that you were paying for the interest on his loan while he was a full-time student.


The good news is he will repay me (and you) generously with the taxes he will pay as a high earner. I feel post secondary education should be more heavily subsidised by the taxpayers as studies show University grads earn considerably more than high school grads and therefore pay far more in taxes over their careers, effectively contributing more to society over their careers.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

There is a trade-off. Society benefits from higher education, but so too does the person educated. I think it is fair to expect the individual to pay a non-trivial amount for that benefit. 

Non-'free' university education also ought to help focus the mind for those who are drifting through school. This is a good reason for parents not to entirely bankroll university for their children. You'd be doing them a bigger favour by giving them some of that money for a down payment on a home after graduation than having them spend it on beer while they are in school. A little bit of poverty also helps people grow up a little, I think.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Ihatetaxes said:


> The good news is he will repay me (and you) generously with the taxes he will pay as a high earner. I feel post secondary education should be more heavily subsidised by the taxpayers as studies show University grads earn considerably more than high school grads and therefore pay far more in taxes over their careers, effectively contributing more to society over their careers.


I am not arguing that point at all; I'm all for subsidizing brilliant minds [and not so brilliant too]. I was merely making fun of your username. :chuncky:


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> I was merely making fun of your username. :chuncky:


Nice one T.gal - I missed it the first time.


----------



## tombiosis (Dec 18, 2010)

another article on KO's investors heading for the door...
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/kevin-o-leary-funds-see-115953999.html


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

There are also questions being raised about everyone considering KOL as a billionaire, when there is no real evidence to suggest his net worth is anywhere even close to that number.
KOL himself is unusually silent on this topic.

Following comment was posted by an anonymous Internet poster, masquerading as Kevin O'Leary on the Wellington Fund blog back in 2010:

_I have billions of cubic feet of hot air inside me, so that also makes me a billion"air".
Now if you’ll excuse me, I must get back to ripping off mutual fund investors and belittling entreprenuers for entertainment value._

I found it very funny.


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> There are also questions being raised about everyone considering KOL as a billionaire, when there is no real evidence to suggest his net worth is anywhere even close to that number.
> KOL himself is unusually silent on this topic.
> 
> Following comment was posted by an anonymous Internet poster, masquerading as Kevin O'Leary on the Wellington Fund blog back in 2010:
> ...


Great quote.

How much did he sell his company for? Is that public info or was it a private deal?

He's specifically said on Shark Tank that he's a billionaire.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

He sold The Learning Company to Mattel for 3.5 billion; he said so on The Dragon's Den recently.

Has anyone read his book 'Cold Hard Truth'?


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> He sold The Learning Company to Mattel for 3.5 billion; he said so on The Dragon's Den recently.


He was only a partial owner of that company.
His share of the loot was $6M, before taxes.
The partners also negotiated a golden handshake of $5M each, before taxes as well.

No further information is available on his other alleged investing escapades - I suspect a lot of it is myth and legends.

This is not meant as a slight against him - just stating the facts.



> Has anyone read his book 'Cold Hard Truth'?


Currenly on chapter 5 of 12.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I didn't know the details, just that he told one of the contestants that he sold his company for 3.5 billion and hence more experienced in the educational business, with more contacts in the US than the other Dragons, blah, blah; but maybe he said that he sold a company rather than his.

So, would you recommend the book? That's why I asked.


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> I didn't know the details, just that he told one of the contestants that he sold his company for 3.5 billion and hence more experienced in the educational business, with more contacts in the US than the other Dragons, blah, blah; but maybe he said that he sold a company rather than his.


Ah, the wicked play with words.
He did sell _his_ company for $3.5B, but he didn't say whether _he_ made a billion out of the deal or not.
In fact, he did not.



> So, would you recommend the book? That's why I asked.


I haven't finished it yet, but so far I can say that if you like him or like his style/attitude, you will like the book.
Those that hate his guts or consider him a jerk or whatever, don't bother reading the book.
It is very much an autobiography.
It is not a finance/investing book by any means.

And of course, I didn't buy the book (it's borrowed from the community library).


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> There are also questions being raised about everyone considering KOL as a billionaire, when there is no real evidence to suggest his net worth is anywhere even close to that number.
> KOL himself is unusually silent on this topic.
> 
> [ ... ]


One of the Canadian "For Dummies" books written by Eric Tyson has a review of the gap between the promotion and actual facts about KOL. If I remember to find it ( ... and it's not too long), I might post some of it.


Cheers


----------



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> There are also questions being raised about everyone considering KOL as a billionaire, when there is no real evidence to suggest his net worth is anywhere even close to that number.
> KOL himself is unusually silent on this topic.
> 
> Following comment was posted by an anonymous Internet poster, masquerading as Kevin O'Leary on the Wellington Fund blog back in 2010:
> ...


 had to include that anonymous comment in my quote.

As to why everyone considering KOL a billionaire, I did see one episode of Dragon's Den, where KOL and Jim Treliving were competing against all the other dragons on a bid and Kevin said something like 'why join the millionaire's club, when you can come to this side and join the bill-ion-aire's club', by which I guess he was saying that he and Jim had dealt with amounts in the billions, but was maybe implying that they had billions to play with.


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> He sold The Learning Company to Mattel for 3.5 billion; he said so on The Dragon's Den recently.
> 
> Has anyone read his book 'Cold Hard Truth'?


Yup, very good read. Always borrow from the library.


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I am surprised anyone bought mutual funds from someone who is most interested in promoting himself, rather than focusing on returns for the investor.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I am surprised that no one in this thread addressed belguy's question. Maybe we should start a KO is an ******* thread. I assume that none of the savvy investors here have bought his overpriced, underperforming funds.

Why is belguy asking the question? Is he considering an investment or is it the usual?


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Why is belguy asking the question? Is he considering an investment or is it the usual?


I asked myself the same question, but no, I don't think he's considering investing in KO funds. Probably he just wanted to discuss something other than Europe & btw, that 'BB' comment wasn't very nice. :rolleyes2:

*Harold/Jungle:* thanks for the book recommendation!


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

kcowan said:


> I am surprised that no one in this thread addressed belguy's question. Maybe we should start a KO is an ******* thread. I assume that none of the savvy investors here have bought his overpriced, underperforming funds.
> 
> Why is belguy asking the question? Is he considering an investment or is it the usual?


No one is answering the question? Odd ... earlier up thread: 



andrewf said:


> Which KO were you watching? That guy is an idiot!


and then:



CanadianCapitalist said:


> KO's website claims he is an "investor extraordinaire". Not if you go by the performance of the funds bearing his name.


These might not be as blunt as "He doesn't know what he is talking about" but the way I read them, they do answer Belguy's question.

As well, the parts about being a promoter who bends (if not breaks) the facts seem to me to be implying he knows to make money off of others but not how to invest.

While I can't speak for any others, savvy or otherwise - I certainly don't own any of KOL's funds or have a prospectus. The few bits I've seen of KOL makes me think he knows self-promotion but not investing.


Maybe Belguy's been planning his investments based on what is seen on "The Lang & O'Leary Exchange" and is now questioning his trust in KOL? :eek2:


IAC ... unless I missed it upthread, I'm waiting with baited breath to read where you stand on the question ... :biggrin:

Cheers


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I amend my statement: KO is an idiot _when it comes to business, politics, economics, etc._ He is a self-promotion prodigy. He's collecting 1.5% of $1.5 billion on the back of his skill as a promoter, not an investor.

A classic example of his self-aggrandizement is his implied claim to be a billionaire through his carefully worded claim to have sold The Learning Company for billions.


----------



## venter (Apr 10, 2009)

*Saw a recent presentation by KO.*

I saw him give a presentation about OL Funds recently. He does not do the investing himself. He started the company because he wanted his money managed according to his beliefs (all the different funds were seeded with his own cash I believe). His main point was if the company does not pay a dividend, he will not own it. So this is the mantra of the fund co. The rest of the talk was about how he gets great inside information and insights from corporate big-wigs in the green room before taping shows and other entertaining insights into the shows he does.

He does talk a good game but his performance vs other dividend funds/etfs is not spectacular. I would like to see a comparison of risk adjusted returns vs peers and indexes before passing judgement.


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

venter said:


> but his performance vs other dividend funds/etfs is not spectacular.


Most of his funds/ETFs invest in high yield corporate or govt. debt paying around 6% to 7%.
Once you account for the 3% - 4% MER, the net returns for investors is around 2% to 3% at best.
Most of the investors in his funds would have done just as well buying rolling 5 yr. GICs


----------



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

And so, what does Kevin O'Leary have to say about all of this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...oes-disputes-redemption-value/article2448319/


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Belguy said:


> And so, what does Kevin O'Leary have to say about all of this:
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...oes-disputes-redemption-value/article2448319/


I think the 400+ comments tell the story more than his gobblygook.


----------



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

How are your O'Leary funds looking now?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...a-closer-look-at-oleary-funds/article4570686/

I am considering starting up the Belguy series of index funds and you can pretty much be certain of achieving better long term returns than with Kevin's offerings.


----------



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

More Kevin:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...naire-he-just-plays-one-on-tv/article4564334/


----------

