# Td Bond Fund



## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

What do you think of this fund. I have had it over the years and I must say it's a consistent performer with very low risk.

However, I hear now is not the best time to buy bonds (I am wondering if I should buy more). 

WHat are your thoughts on this fund.
Do you think the fund will go down in value?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Is it TDB162?
If so, you could switch to the e-Series version, which is the exact same fund composition but a lower MER (0.50% vs. 1.10%)
Regarding your question about buying : if the main reason you hold bonds is to manage portfolio volatality and/or steady, reliable income then I think it's still valid to buy bonds.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> Is it TDB162?
> If so, you could switch to the e-Series version, which is the exact same fund composition but a lower MER (0.50% vs. 1.10%)
> Regarding your question about buying : if the main reason you hold bonds is to manage portfolio volatality and/or steady, reliable income then I think it's still valid to buy bonds.


Thanks for the advice. I don't know anything about th E series, I will look into it.
What is it about?


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

tdb909 .... it's just a canadian bond fund through td & tdw with a lower mer because it's an e-series fund (only available to buy/sell online) you can buy it directly through tdw but if you go through td bank you need to fill out a form to get your mutual fund account switched to an eseries (found online) Half the bank employees will have no idea about the e-series funds..or play stupid and pitch their higher MER funds.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

For that reason ^^ best to buy it in TDW. No reps, just put code in and buy fund.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

It's not a problem to fill out simple form and can be able to buy those e-series in TD account. Just fill it and mail.
Also TD Income Advantage Portfolio-I look nice, it's mix of difirent bond funds and Income MF, but can be bought only via TDW


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

summer said:


> What do you think of this fund. I have had it over the years and I must say it's a consistent performer with very low risk.
> 
> However, I hear now is not the best time to buy bonds (I am wondering if I should buy more).
> 
> ...


Why its not best time to buy bonds? Interest rate will be staying low in near future. TD Bond fund in 90% of the cases will move opposite TSX index. So, buy bonds when markets are up for several days and bonds are down.
Also you may diversify between different bond funds: very conservative (Short term, mortgage), conservative (can bond, can bond index), more risky (real return, high yield)


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## Dibs (May 26, 2011)

So I think we should clarify that there are actually three bond funds that we are talking about.

TDB162 - TD Canadian Bond (1.11 MER)
TDB966 - TD Canadian Bond Index (0.83 MER)
TDB909 - TD Canadian Bond Index-e (0.51 MER)

Comparison in globe investor

So TDB966 and TDB909 are essentially the same product - they follow the bond index except that the e-series version has a lower MER. In fact, the reported net assets of both funds are _identical _which would suggest that the money from both funds is handled together! 

TDB162 has an even higher MER and seems to be actively managed as opposed to the index funds that will passively follow a bond benchmark.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Dibs said:


> So TDB966 and TDB909 are essentially the same product - they follow the bond index except that the e-series version has a lower MER. In fact, the reported net assets of both funds are _identical _which would suggest that the money from both funds is handled together!


They are the same fund, just that TDB909 does not pay a trailer to the brokerage. It is only available in its own specialized online account to bypass the middleman. There are a lot of mutual funds that are identical except for the 'class'. Another note: If one wants to go from TDB966 to TDB909, do it as a switch rather than buy/sell. It will not be registered as a 'deemed disposition'.


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

So what is better a bond fund or bond index fund?


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## screwjack (Dec 14, 2011)

Just wondering, how does anyone get any return from a bond fund charging 1.11 MER? Unless the fund is a junk bonds fund, i don't see the merit of owning the it.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

screwjack said:


> Just wondering, how does anyone get any return from a bond fund charging 1.11 MER? Unless the fund is a junk bonds fund, i don't see the merit of owning the it.


Not only ... TD Real Return bond has MER 1.5% and YTD return 11.72%


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## screwjack (Dec 14, 2011)

Even Pimco doesn't dare to charge so much for its total return fund. 

The double digit return is largely due to a falling bond yield. Investors who hold these TD bond funds are the ultimate losers in the long run.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

summer said:


> So what is better a bond fund or bond index fund?



I've found the PHN bond funds to be very good and comparable or even superior to ETFs once I factor in trading commissions. Right now, in my PHN account, I have about 1/4 of my fixed income evenly split between:

PHN bond
PHN Inflation protected bond
PHN High Yield bond (now closed to new investors)
PHN ST bond and mortgage

I also hold some of the TD bond "e" and some short term bond ETFs but I generally prefer PHN for fixed income.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

screwjack said:


> Even Pimco doesn't dare to charge so much for its total return fund.
> 
> The double digit return is largely due to a falling bond yield. Investors who hold these TD bond funds are the ultimate losers in the long run.


I don't know what will be in long run, but so far TD real return bond has returns:
1y -15.7%
5y - 30%

and current yield 2.7%


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Spidey said:


> I've found the PHN bond funds to be very good and comparable or even superior to ETFs once I factor in trading commissions. Right now, in my PHN account, I have about 1/4 of my fixed income evenly split between:
> 
> PHN bond
> PHN Inflation protected bond
> ...


PHN Inflation protected bond has similar returns as TD Real return, but for PHN min initial investment 25K, for me it's too much for 1 mutual fund..

Also compared PHN and TD short term bond, sometimes one perform better than other, sometimes opposite, but in 5 years both gave practically identical returns


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

Spidey said:


> I've found the PHN bond funds to be very good and comparable or even superior to ETFs once I factor in trading commissions. Right now, in my PHN account, I have about 1/4 of my fixed income evenly split between:
> 
> PHN bond
> PHN Inflation protected bond
> ...


Thanks for the info, I am looking those fund up right now. I have never heard of PHN before but it seems they have been around forever.


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

PHN has built up an excellent reputation - it's now owned by RBC - another great company.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...fuse-you-heres-a-simple-guide/article2274386/


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. So, I am now looking to buy the PHN110 which is the PHN bond fund.

Do you think this is better than TDB162 TD Bond Fund?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> I've found the PHN bond funds to be very good and comparable or even superior to ETFs once I factor in trading commissions. Right now, in my PHN account, I have about 1/4 of my fixed income evenly split between:
> 
> PHN bond
> PHN Inflation protected bond
> ...


 ditto ... phn outperforms over most time periods for a slighty higher mer (.59 vs .51)

phn is actively managed as well

i believe you can buy phn340 - total return bond fund through td but i forget if you pay a commission

if you already have a td account then the 909 is probably an easier/less hassle way to go with results that are close


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## summer (Jul 7, 2011)

I have RBC for rrsps and TD for my non registered acct.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Just checked My Real Return Bond portfolio , one has paid out 13.3% since Feb 28,2011.


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