# Mo Money Mo Bettah Mo Problems



## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

My first post. and certainly i hope to be the first of many. Lot's of great ideas and knowledge on this site.

Please take the time to consider my situation and share your wisdom with me. 

Some background, 

- I'm 25 
- Graduated @ UBC in 2008. 
- I'm a contractor in Oil and Gas project management, been working for one year. 
- I gross ~360K a year
- I manage to save around 200K a year after all is said and done.
- I was gifted a condo worth ~400k in Vancouver
- My longtime girlfriend is a flight attendant and grosses ~ 24K/Year, covers me completely under her health care.
- Approximate liquid net worth excluding my condo is ~ 280K

Now most of you are probably thinking what the hell i need advice on. That i should just shut the hell up and make the most of my opportunity. 

Here is the dark side of my life, 

- I've work 75+ hours EVERY week for the past year (with the exception of Christmas and New Years) with no signs of slowing down. 
- I travel extensively due to work, I probably spent a total of 15 days at "home" in Vancouver last year.
- Due to this my health is failing in various areas (@ 25 years old!), I used to be a nationally ranked swimmer now I am lucky to find time for a single workout a week. Let alone cooking healthy foods for myself.
- I have great interest in investing, however i have no time to pursue it in the slightest. 90% of my portfolio is just sitting there in a money market fund. 
- My relationships outside my family and gf have almost become almost meaningless. The only reason my girlfriend and I haven't broken up is because of our 5 year history and her ability to fly to wherever i am on her days off and spend it with me.
- I HATE my work, the politics, the travel, pretty much everyone i work with.
- I think I'm battling depression and am slightly suicidal (only in the mornings haha)
- The self imposed pressure i feel that accompanies this type of income is heavy. The (self imposed) burden of building the security/nest egg for myself and and my future family is overwhelming.

I'm not delusional, I know I can't keep up this pace forever. Everyday i think of quitting. I know there is more to life than money and I have so many careers and interests that i want to pursue (some of which may someday be just as lucrative). 

I've tried to pinpoint my number that i would feel comfortable resigning with and it's not coming to me. I can't factor in the cost of perhaps going back to school, getting married, kids in the future and balance that all with my current situation. I don't want to regret any of my decisions and as far as life altering ones go this might be the largest one.

So what am i left with? Many paths and no clarity on which one to take. Everyday I wait for an epiphany but none have come. 

Thank you reading my ramblings. All the best to all you in your journey's.


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## Mensa (Oct 19, 2010)

At 25, you have a net worth higher than many Canadians - especially since you have excluded your gifted condo.

It appears that you have many options open to you, but I know how crippling too much choice can be...It sounds as though it would be helpful for you to break things down into smaller chunks to try to come up with your answers.

You've said that your health and your relationships are beginning to break down because of your work hours, the amount of traveling you do and the pressure that you put yourself under. This is not a good thing! While I do believe everyone needs some pressure and needs to push him/herself to some extent there is a point where the stress outweighs the value. 

As this site is primarily financial, let's look at that aspect first:

1. You are doing amazingly well in terms of your net worth. I'm assuming you have a business degree? I know it would be hard to search for a new career while you're away so much, but lots of opportunities can be researched online. Why not look into what else is out there for you?

2. You've said that 90% of your liquidity is sitting in a money market account because you're too busy to deal with it. I would suggest finding someone else to put this money to work for you (for the nonce, anyway until you are in a different position where you have the time to do it yourself) - a fee based F.A. might suit - the amount you'll make will likely FAR outweigh what you'd pay to have your money managed. 

Now, as far as your personal life goes - only you can answer what is more important to you - money or life. Maybe you could give yourself a time frame to work within...ie - give yourself a year (or 6 months, or whatever) to continue at your present pace and accumulate as much money as you can before you find a new career that will not affect you so negatively. In the meantime, find a way to balance work with looking after yourself - work out in the hotel gym first thing in the morning, take healthy snacks to work - even if you're away from home, it's not hard to find an apple...

While we all want to plan for the future, I'm not convinced that sacrificing your health, relationships and well-being are particularly conducive to achieving a future. You're too young!

Best of luck!


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow. If you're feeling this way now, I don't think you'll be able to sustain this. I've been in your situation before and about all you can do is devise your exit plan. What else can you do? Being a suicidal PM isn't useful to anyone, much less your own mental peace of mind.

The good news is there are lots of jobs out there for experienced PMs. You may have to take a cut in pay, but no matter where you work, the job is different. Some of them are more relaxed than others. I think you should make job-hunting your priority. ASAP. Seriously. Stick your resume on workopolis and see what happens.

Yes, you can do the whole stress leave thing but it's not really that great.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

$360k per year is far more than you need to live a very comfortable life. Saving $200k per year you could practically retire at 30 or so. I would keep the savings liquid while you figure out who you are, with that kind of money you have many options to start your own business or passive income

I would stay with the job as long as you're gaining valuable experience and seeing the world and start making your exit plan. Obviously you can't keep that up forever. Is it possible to ask for a job share? Work for 75 hrs per week for 6 months and 180k and then vacation for 6 months! Most of that income is going to taxes anyways


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

> - I think I'm battling depression and am slightly suicidal (only in the mornings haha)


Yikes. I think you need to seriously consider whether this high income is worth compromising not only your physical health but your mental health. Is there any way you could slow down your work (work a more manageable 50 or 60 hours a week, and take a week off here and there) even at the expense of some of your income? Money is just money, and isn't worth a thing without your health.

It seems to me that if you can slow down a bit, you might be able to stay in such a high paying career longer before burning out.

As far as your investments, keeping your financial portfolio fairly safe might make sense from a personal balance sheet perspective. If your human capital is more 'equity-like' (as it sounds to me--risky and uncertain), it makes sense to manage that risk with relatively safe financial assets. You could probably increase your yield a bit over MMFs by looking at HISAs or GICs. You might also want to look into disability insurance, given that your human capital is so valuable.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I take it since you said you're a PM contractor, that you're on contract, and cannot do a job share or take a leave, as that would mean terminating your contract. Also, based on your age, this is one of your first contracts. Please tell me if these assumptions are wrong. If they are wrong, and you are a full time employee or have a different arrangement, please tell, much of my thoughts won't be relevant.

My spouse (we were dating/engaged at the time) has been through a similar situation as you, with similar income, a few more hours a week, similar age, and further away, in a different countries though. At first he was excited, and it was very novel, but that grew old pretty quickly. 


You have been given an opportunity that most people will not get, and that is to earn a lot of money before you get tied down with 'life' eg. mortgages, marriage, kids, requiring stability, etc. We've past that stage, and now are married and with 2 kids. Here are some things that we learned from that time. Some we would do the same, some differently:
- Try to make the best of it, if you do really hate it, and your mental and physical health is suffering, then it's time to move on or change something in your contract. 
- Don't blow all the money, even if you are stressed, tired, etc. We thought we were living the high life (we were in a way) and spent crazy amounts of money on useless things to keep us entertained. Our reasoning was, that we worked so hard and had little free time, that we could go and blow hundreds of dollars on dinners, entertainment, toys, really whatever we wanted. We had some discipline to save a little, that had a down payment on our house, some investments, and RRSPs etc, however, if we were frugal about it, we would have a much bigger house paid off, and be able to retire with kids, and lead the lifestyle we want now without work. Though we had fun at the time, we spent it in lieu of our future.
- Work is not more important than the rest of your life. One of our final straws was that work wanted my spouse (fiance at the time) to get a project finished and work just a little longer, postpone vacation, and fly in the night before our wedding. He put his foot down, and the company just accepted no. So don't be afraid to say no. If you're that good, which based on your income, then they will work around it. This is one of the hardest things to do.
- Contracting can be feast or famine. THere is a lot of unstability, so make sure you more around and get a good client base, and reputation. 

I assume that because you're a consultant, you're getting an hourly consultant wage. If that's the case, there are some things that you can do. The next time your contract is up for renewal, you can put clauses in for scheduled vacation blocks, and max hours (or at least at a higher premium) like no more than 60 hours a week. You can work condensed weeks, to allow to fly back to see your friends and family. My husband had in his contracts that on the weeks he flew back (max every other week, but min once a month), he would work a condensed week, and then from home (if your work allows you to). If not, see if you can negotiate a project documentation updating time. 

If this is one of your first contracts, then you may be hesitant to end contracts. You didn't meantion how long you've been on this contract. Has it been since you graduated, or just last year? If it's newer, then it makes sense to get the experience, try and put some boundaries. If you've been there for a few years, then it's great experience for a consultant to move through different clients. This gives you more exposure. Right now, PM's in Oil & Gas are in hot demand, I'm in Project Management too, and can pretty much get a job anywhere I want. I won't make as much as you on an annual basis, but would only work 1/2 the time you do. 

Though you don't get paid stress leave, as a contractor, remember that you are supposed to have more control over your hours. So taking a well deserved and needed leave is important. Do not think about the money.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I understand what you're saying PA, but most of those pressure-cooker PM jobs are not so flexible as to allow what you are suggesting. It's not that easy to simply leave, as there are resources and tasks that depend on you pushing for them to get done. Only the PM has the project level overview to know that if task A slips, all the ones that follow it will also be delayed. It's a lot of pressure he is under, and if he's working those types of excessive hours he may be a bit of a workaholic. Some people thrive on the challenge.

Another thing to keep in mind is that for some people in this field, finding work is very difficult due to all the competition. For instance, a PM in industry A may have a better chance at a job in his own industry than a PM applying from industry B. You also need to be careful that in your haste and high emotion, that you do not put yourself in a new job that is 10x worst. That can easily happen if it's difficult to find a new job and you are desperate to save yourself and get out of the old one.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

All I can say is that the oil and gas industry must be seriously starved of talent if they're putting a 25 year old in that kind of role. No matter how talented you are, experience is invaluable in a PM role.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

...and experience is the thing that will help you weather the storms which are inevitable in both the O&G industry AND the PM role. It is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though: older PMs have experience; that's how they get to be older PMs. 

I will say that I earned a lot of money in my 20's and it was kind of destabilizing, because I didn't know anyone else in the same position and I could hardly complain to anyone. In fact, I felt like I couldn't talk about it to anyone. And then I got divorced and I was one of those few women who was sued for alimony by her husband (uh, his suit was unsuccessful). 

I guess I don't really have advice, only empathy. I recently returned to a PM role and it is really interesting this second time 'round. The stress of my 20's has largely evaporated - I think I'm just much more confident about defining my boundaries.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> but most of those pressure-cooker PM jobs are not so flexible as to allow what you are suggesting. It's not that easy to simply leave, as there are resources and tasks that depend on you pushing for them to get done. Only the PM has the project level overview to know that if task A slips, all the ones that follow it will also be delayed. QUOTE]
> 
> What I am trying to say, is PM jobs can be high pressure, but they don't have to be as the OP described. If you are a contractor (vs employee), you actually have much more flexibility than an employee. It's a matter of setting proper boundries. PMs should not be the only one who understands the critial path, and the dependancies. He/she needs to manage it, but there should be others that can help if properly set up. What if the PM gets hit by a bus? Also, research already shows that projects will lose a major resource every 90-180 days, this could include a PM.
> 
> ...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I have been there and believe me, you can adjust your work life to acomplish your goals. When I was a contractor, there was one hour a day to maintain my network. These were call outs and callbacks to people who could develop more business for me. They accepted it. So the contract was for 7 productive hours. 

I also had a defined vacation schedule. They knew it and we all worked around it.

Then there is the issue of reframing. You are in a fabulous position and you should be enjoying it. If you are not, then you need some psychological help. This does not mean you need a shrink. You just need to establish a balance in your life.

Congratulations...


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Great post, PA, you make a lot of excellent points. Only thing I might say is that many contract PM jobs do not have the flexibility you allude to. One contract I worked dictated all of the terms and you had to do things their way, work at their site, their hours etc. The label contractor simply means they didn't have to pay you any benefits. It by no means afforded any level of freedom or control. I'm not saying all jobs are like that, but a lot are, and maybe the OP is in a similar situation. Establishing boundaries, even with the best approach, can often get you in trouble if the contract merely means employee with no benefits. Just my thoughts, I realize we've all had different experiences.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

If the contract merely means employee with no benefits, you may want to put a call in to Revenue Canada. Or clarify with your employer that you must retain flexibility over your work schedule, or they owe a bunch of payroll taxes to CRA.


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## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

Thank you all very much for sharing. I really value those of you who have been in similar situations and shared your lessons and hindsight. As MoneyGal has stated, it can be a very isolating situation to be in, there simply is no advice for those in my shoes. 


Mensa - A time will come when I'm more comfortable with my experience and financial nest egg where i will consider more career options seriously. 

I'm very leery of financial advisers, I grew up on the financial principle that "No one cares about your money more than yourself" so it's very hard for me to let go of that control. Also i think finding a good FA would require an interviewing and screening process i don't really have time for. Thoughts?


The Royal Mail - I'll certainly explore other similar career options that may be less stressful. However, i feel binded as oil and gas project management is actually a very small community (at least within Canada), which leads to the concern that if i jump ship to another job within my industry, my reputation may follow me. Thank you for your advice to be patient and calculating in decisions, i can certainly vouch for the importance of that. You're certainly a voice of reason.


Mode3sour - I wish it were that flexible to choose to work for 6months and take the other 6 off, my contracts are based around projects which run anywhere from 1-5 years. Also I'm taxed as corporation (small buisness), so I shield a large portion of my income within my company, and so no the majority of my income does not go to income taxes.


AndrewWF - I have no problem being so liquid at this point. I agree with you that being in cash is not a bad position to be in with my inherently high risk profession. Also in regards to your comment about the O&G industry, yes they are starved for talented educated people, this is the nature of the industry in boom times and why it is inherently risky.


Pluggin Along - Thank you very much for sharing your story, I especially appreciated the part where you caution on blowing money. I do spend quite lavishly on days off (avg about 2-3 days/month), I could perhaps look at cutting back a bit. One of my major problems is I simply have no set financial goals. I have no debt, I have no mortgage and i am completely liquid, my only goal is to save for the future.

You are correct most your assumptions. I am on contract, this is my first contract (since Dec 2008) and I am not setting clear boundaries due to my lack of experience. My contract is on day rate (12hours/day) which is industry standard as far as i can see among my colleagues. Although my contract stipulates the amount of hours i work in a day, everyone on my team and upper management treat that as just a formality, we all put in min 14hours a day. I would love to ask for some of the concessions and boundaries that you have alluded to, perhaps a few years down the road though. As far as I can see, nobody in my organization has that type of flexibility.

What I hate about my job isn't the PM part, it's definitely the workload and and bureaucracy of my current position, i guess that is the nature of working on a project involving a thousand companies and a multi-billion dollar budget. My perspective on Oil and Gas is that because there is so much money flowing in the industries these companies never have an incentive to improve anything, so it just becomes like a pyramid of power and politics. 

Love that you touched on the trinity of PM (Cost, Schedule, Quality). Funny i never considered applying that to my actual life even though i live professionally by that theory everyday.


MoneyGal - I'm glad someone understands the frustrations of being both blessed and isolated with a great opportunity.


Kcowan - Thank you for your thoughts, however I am not aware of anyone that can frame my lifestyle in a favorable light, unless money is that person considers favorable. Projects with the scope of the one I'm working on don't have the flexibility "work around" my time. I will certainly take your advice to remember that networking is critical at any point in any career.


So I see a few central themes from the forum,

-Put my foot down and set some minor boundaries up to keep me sane enough. 
-Keep on this path for as long as I can hold out, dedicate time and resources to finding a "better" positions while gaining experience


and a few questions,

-For those of you who have been in similar situations, what would you have done differently? Where should you have drawn the line? 
-Do any of you have PM experience in crossing industries? 
-Can any of you speak to financial goals in my position? 
-What are your thoughts on of having a FA manage your investments? How do you find a quality one?
-Does anybody ever regret "overworking"?


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

OP: How did you get yourself in such a situation to be paid so well? How can you have experience of more than 12-24 months of co-op/internship in junior PM, and maybe some basic construction work experience. No insult to your achievement intended, I'm interested in hearing a bit more about your background.
I'll be graduating an engineering program next year and will be likely working in the oil sector. It's seems like I have the choice of working in edmonton/calgary for ~70k or taking a lifestyle hit and going to fort mcmurray to bring in ~120k
It would be interesting to know how you seem to have "skipped" over 10 years of career experience to arrive where you are...


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## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

peterk said:


> OP: How did you get yourself in such a situation to be paid so well? How can you have experience of more than 12-24 months of co-op/internship in junior PM, and maybe some basic construction work experience. No insult to your achievement intended, I'm interested in hearing a bit more about your background.
> I'll be graduating an engineering program next year and will be likely working in the oil sector. It's seems like I have the choice of working in edmonton/calgary for ~70k or taking a lifestyle hit and going to fort mcmurray to bring in ~120k
> It would be interesting to know how you seem to have "skipped" over 10 years of career experience to arrive where you are...


No insult taken. I certainly have "skipped" over a traditional career rise to where I am. 

My old man is also in the industry, although he works overseas these days his network is large and he helped me land summer jobs in Oil and Gas companies when i was still in High School. 

In university I interned at the company i currently contract with expanded my network like it was my only priority in life. My extensive network includes a few executives which i reached out to during my internship. 

As I've said in an earlier post, the project i work on is a multibillion dollar project. I've found a niche within a niche on the project management team, I am also the lowest paid member of my team with the exception of our secretaries and other admin staff. 

Within the oil and gas industry, the trend for the big companies since the late 90s was to outsource EVERYTHING. The O&G companies these days consists little more than upper management and business development units. I've seen companies contract out their entire HR departments! If you can find your niche and have the right contacts you could be doing better than I. The company that supplies on site medics/ambulances to my project (and many others) is a 5 year old company who is run and owned by a 32 year guy who just saw the niche and pounced, that company generated over 6 million in revenue last year with a net profit of just under 1 million.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

kcowan said:


> I have been there and believe me, you can adjust your work life to acomplish your goals. When I was a contractor, there was one hour a day to maintain my network. These were call outs and callbacks to people who could develop more business for me. They accepted it. So the contract was for 7 productive hours.
> 
> I also had a defined vacation schedule. They knew it and we all worked around it.
> 
> ...


+1... look at this as an opportunity that many will never have, and later on in life, you may not be able to continue doing it.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> If the contract merely means employee with no benefits, you may want to put a call in to Revenue Canada. Or clarify with your employer that you must retain flexibility over your work schedule, or they owe a bunch of payroll taxes to CRA.


Very interesting. I never considered the CRA angle, but I did get into that argument with a past contract and they wouldn't budge. They basically told me that these were the terms of a job, we're all a team here, we all work the same hours, team work blah blah blah and that they are paying me well blah blah blah. They were a terrible company to work for and fired contractors at whim and hired new ones. And it's not the only company. Many companies these days hire employees under this term. I've had several contracts and none of them had flexibility when it came to work hours, location and other terms being discussed here. Thus my expression employee with no benefits.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

MoMoney said:


> I'm very leery of financial advisers, I grew up on the financial principle that "No one cares about your money more than yourself" so it's very hard for me to let go of that control. Also i think finding a good FA would require an interviewing and screening process i don't really have time for. Thoughts?


I'm pretty sure I will be in the minority for my view, but it has worked for me so far. I know many people here are DIY investors and do not like FA advisor fees. Many will recommend a fee only advisor which is good too. My theory goes back to the triple constraint and your situation. I could be wrong, but based on your posts, your key driver out of the triple constraint is time. You don't have any to spare, any 'spare' time you may have, is going towards your work, and what little time you have for enjoyment in life. You can afford to pay someone to at least start you out in your investments. The time it will take you to be comfortable in investing, and managing your own investments will taken away from your billable hours. When you factor that in, for now, it may be worth hiring an advisor, until you find more time. You can also just throw some money in the couch potatoe, but are you comfortable doing it before taking time to understand it better? This does make a large assumption that you can find an advisor you trust. 

I really trust my advisor, but he has been dealing with my friends and family for a very long time. 



MoMoney said:


> i feel binded as oil and gas project management is actually a very small community (at least within Canada), which leads to the concern that if i jump ship to another job within my industry, my reputation may follow me.


The industry is small in Canada, but not that small in Alberta. There are many O&G PM jobs. You have been there over 2 years which is not too bad. I do agree this is the time you should be getting experience, and it sounds like this project is unbelievable in those terms. You definately don't want to leave anyone high and dry, as that will catch up with you, but its not unreasonable to leave after a particular phase. What is the projected project end date? When is your contract up for renewal? Are you able to disclose what your schooling background is? Are you an PEng, etc, that will make a difference in your mobility in the industry. 



MoMoney said:


> Thank you very much for sharing your story, I especially appreciated the part where you caution on blowing money. I do spend quite lavishly on days off (avg about 2-3 days/month), I could perhaps look at cutting back a bit. One of my major problems is I simply have no set financial goals. I have no debt, I have no mortgage and i am completely liquid, my only goal is to save for the future.


Please don't take it as don't spend on yourself, you definately do deserve it. I was not as smart as many of the posters here, and it took me a shake up before I realized how my spending when I was younger has limited some of my options now. (I'm not complaining, I just have less options). When you are spending money, just ask yourself, is this currently making your life easier (anything that will take stress off your life right now may be worth it), increasing the quality of your life now, or is this something once you spend, you think 'Oh boy, was that a waste' or is forgotten easily. At your age, I had no debt, some (small) savings, great income, etc, but also no concrete goals. I always figured I was still saving more than my friends, so was doing great, but really, I could have saved so much more. Your goals for the future are great. It's hard at 25. Think about what kind of options you want to have 10 years from now, wife, kids, time with family, no mortgage, security, etc. I think just saving for your major purchases in the next 5-10 years (house, car, emergency funds, etc), and get discplined in putting money aside for retirement, you'll do great. The best thing I did was right when I started working I started my RRSP at 21. 



MoMoney said:


> I am on contract, this is my first contract (since Dec 2008) and I am not setting clear boundaries due to my lack of experience. My contract is on day rate (12hours/day) which is industry standard as far as i can see among my colleagues. Although my contract stipulates the amount of hours i work in a day, everyone on my team and upper management treat that as just a formality, we all put in min 14hours a day. I would love to ask for some of the concessions and boundaries that you have alluded to, perhaps a few years down the road though. As far as I can see, nobody in my organization has that type of flexibility.


This is a really tough one when you're first starting out. When my spouse first started contracting, he did the same thing. He learned pretty quickly at renewal time to put some boundaries. This is a very fine balance. You are supposed to have more flexibility, but we both know that the client pays your invoices. The first contracts are about getting your experience, and getting your name out there, and most importantly, gaining your self confidence. One of the first steps my spouse did was put a clause that charged a 2X overtime rate past 50/hours a week. When they paid that with no problem, and he was still stressed, he started to put planned time off, etc. As a contractor, corporations expect you to do things like this, it's a part of the negotation. Don't short change yourself, but don't be too demanding. It's taken a while, but now my husband has been doing this long enough, if the terms aren't reasonable, he'll just find another job (don't do this in a bad economy). Based on your post, you may get too stressed out to make it a couple of years. Ask for a couple of smaller things at your next renewal. 



MoMoney said:


> What I hate about my job isn't the PM part, it's definitely the workload and and bureaucracy of my current position, i guess that is the nature of working on a project involving a thousand companies and a multi-billion dollar budget. My perspective on Oil and Gas is that because there is so much money flowing in the industries these companies never have an incentive to improve anything, so it just becomes like a pyramid of power and politics.
> 
> Love that you touched on the trinity of PM (Cost, Schedule, Quality). Funny i never considered applying that to my actual life even though i live professionally by that theory everyday.


I'm glad it's not the PM stuff. The workload as I suggested, can be managed. you just need to be confident to do it. Unfortunately, the bureaucracy of the PM is huge, this is at most PM positions, that's because 90% of your role is communication and managing stakeholders. So don't think that the bureaucracy is any better in any industry. The best pm's know how to manage their stakeholders to get through it. 

The priority triangle, trinity, whatever you want to call it, DOES work in real life too. I use it all the time, and when I teach PM, I use real life examples to see how it applies to almost everything. 



MoMoney said:


> Thank you for your thoughts, however I am not aware of anyone that can frame my lifestyle in a favorable light, unless money is that person considers favorable. Projects with the scope of the one I'm working on don't have the flexibility "work around" my time. I will certainly take your advice to remember that networking is critical at any point in any career.


Let me see if I could provide some framing :
Wow, I'm getting an opportunity to manage some major projects that once I gain the experience, I will be able to write my own paychecks (or a least pick less stressful projects later)
At the ripe age of 25, I have no dependants, or anyone really depending on me (wife, kids, etc), that I can put the time in to make incredible amounts of money, that if I play right, will give me many opportunities later in life, that others are just working for.
You can't question money is not favorable, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum. Stop looking at money as something just to buy stuff, look at it as money provides options (not happiness). If you don't have money, then it will limit what you can do when it comes to tougher situations in life later on. If you do have money, you can buy yourself more options to get through various situations. 

In terms of scope, I agree there can't be the big work arounds. Are you telling me you are the only person that can do this and that most of the people MUST work these hours until the end of the project? What is the risk plan for this? A key resource will be changed or moved every 90-180 days. This is pretty much standard. What if you get hit by a bus?




MoMoney said:


> So I see a few central themes from the forum,
> 
> -Keep on this path for as long as I can hold out, dedicate time and resources to finding a "better" positions while gaining experience


I agree except the hold out part... you should be coming up with a risk mitigation plan before you can no longer hold out.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Wow, my response was so long I had to split it into two 



MoMoney said:


> -For those of you who have been in similar situations, what would you have done differently? Where should you have drawn the line?
> -Do any of you have PM experience in crossing industries?
> -Can any of you speak to financial goals in my position?
> -What are your thoughts on of having a FA manage your investments? How do you find a quality one?
> -Does anybody ever regret "overworking"?



For what I would have done differently, I would have been less crazy with my frivolous spending, and found this forum 14 years ago (was it even around then). I drew the line when they wanted my fiance to miss our wedding rehearsal and fly in the morning or night before our wedding. That definately HE would have regretted if he didn't draw the line . I think setting boundaries is one of the hardest things to do. We do it well now because we have 2 young kids. Where you draw the line really comes down to what is important to you at that point in your life. At this time, you're young, no dependants, and really do have the flexibility, so your focus can be about qulaity (experience), instead of money or time (if you choose) 

I'm a PM Consultant (but working as a full time employee right now), I also teach PM at one of the local institutions. I have not managed O&G projects, but have consulted with PM's, and deal with alot of O&G people. I have worked in many different industries of PM. Your mobility will depend on your experience, credentials, and education. PMs with PMP's are desirable, but in O&G it's not the defining factor. If you could say where your degree is in, this would help. Honestly, PM is complementary skill set to other harder skills. I personally think it is highly transferrable, but I think it's difficult to cross industry until you prove yourself. It's not too bad, once you've done many different kinds. 

In terms of goals, think about a house, family, car for a short/mid term goal. Think about if you do want to have a family later on in life, will you really want to have to work these crazy hours? That was why my spouse and I made the choice to switch companies, and put boundaries around our work now. These are some of the choices that I was talking about. Also, think about retirement in terms of financial security or freedom, rather than stopping work. 

Sure, someone can regret overworking. People used to comment that I was a workaholic. I never regretted working too much when I was younger, I was gaining great experience, decent money, and I liked what I did, most importantly, I was still enjoying my life, and didn't feel like anything was suffereing. Fast forward 2 kids later, I was working even less hours than my peak, but still lots, made great money, loved my work even more, but my time was my family was not what it should be. Hence, I got a new job, it pays okay, it's stuff I already know, I like, not love, but I get to have more balance with the things more important to me.

I think you need to really sit down and think about what your vision is for the life you want is, and what is it that is most important to you. Figure out your triple constraint drivers right now and long term.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

+1, 2
Great contributions PA!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i would like to focus solely on the advisor issue. 

first, can not your father recommend his or another advisor.

second, someone with the time restriction you have should have an investment counsel imho, not a stockbroker or a financial planner. The ICs - and the name is morphing into variations of private investment counsel, etc - are CFAs, always manage on a discretionary basis, and have the highest ethical standards of all. There are exceptions, but generally speaking investment counsel are the princes & cardinals of the investment advisor biz.

my personal opinion is that the vast hosts of other advisors such as stockbrokers & financial planners are not monitored sufficiently by their managers; are rewarded on a fast sales basis (as stephen jarislowsky has complained in his bestseller The Investment Zoo); and thus there is more room for hanky-panky when a client is either absent or too busy to keep an eye on his financial affairs.

the problem in your case is that investment counsel usually begin with 2M, which you don't quite have yet. Nevertheless i feel that one or more may be interested in having you as a client because of the likelihood that a disciplined savings program will turn you into one of their profiled millionnaire clients in less than a decade.

there is an investment counsel association & its director katie walmsley could possibly draw up a short list of calgary ICs - or even toronto ICs - who handle starter or sub-2M cases such as yours. In other words, such firms would take on promising starter millionairelets w high-risk jobs, who therefore should hold fairly conservative investments as a counter-poise, and who require ultra-trustworthy advisors.

please note that the association is presently morphing its name into portfolio management. This is part of the industry trend to replace the expression investment counsel. One often sees the word private, as in private investment management, etc.

http://www.portfoliomanagement.org/

i know of one prominent investment counsel firm that fits the required profile to a tee. For various reasons they are not members of investment counsel dot org. This firm is renowned for both value investing & astonishingly low cost IC services. And they service smaller investors as well, offering a tiny family of 3 basic mutual funds - bond, balanced & equity - which have astounding rock-bottom MERS of only .60-.65%. These MERs are comparable to some etfs advocated by some couch potato formulas.

although i personally only know of this one specific firm, i would imagine that there are other forward-thinking investment counsel who would be able to nurture a promising young client into the multi-millionnaire that he should become, through a combination of funds or pooled funds now, plus bespoke portfolios later when the assets have grown.

.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

If I was in your position, I would first get a few financial ducks in order and then consider asking for a leave of absence. If they refuse it, I would consider quitting. Usually this would be a risky move but if you're in such demand that you're working 7 days a week, you should have no trouble being rehired. You need to set priorities regarding health, relationships, money, family and work and then ensure that the life you're living matches the priorities you have set, in their proper order of importance. You may want consider reading Stephen Covey's book "First Things First".

I would take a few months off and consider my options. Consider what would be the worst that could logically happen by taking this step, and if you can live with those consequences, I would do it. Possibly you and your girlfriend could do something like taking a trip to Europe or Fiji. 

Life is short.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

The only problem with a leave, is he's not an employee, and is not entitled to one. He is a contractor that has not protection, and by leaving, this is effectively early termination of his contract. As he said before, he's new to this, and doesn't want to burn his bridges. Before he does this, as TRM said, he really shouldn't be hasty. The worst that could happen is that the company doesn't want to hire him back, he burns a bridge where there was a personal family connection, he gets black balled, and will not find such a lucrative contract elsewhere. I'm not saying this would happen, but he does need to think things through before acting. 


Also, based on the information that he provided, he's getting about a 25-40% premium on what he would get in the regular market with his experience and industry. This still isn't too bad, because he would still be making 6 figures, and less hours if he were to leave. He needs to take the time to get everything in order, and figure out what he wants. A low six figure income at that age is still great.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

so what did you end up doing? I'm interested because I'm in a similar situation myself, not earning as much but still with the long hours and neglecting my personal life.. 

I'm working 50 hour weeks, I get to go home every 2 weeks. I do have a bit more free time than you described, but that is likely to change if I decide to stick with this career path and move up to a PM position (currently a project engineer). I've been hesitant about advancing my career for the very reasons you talk about, I know there is more pay out there but also a lot more stress and long hours. 

Right now I'm making roughly $150k a year on my schedule. The problem is I can no longer see an end in sight, I've lost my long term career goals. It's starting to become more of a marathon, I'm slugging along putting away my paychecks but I don't know how much longer I'll last before I burn out. The only plan I have is once I get sick of this, I'll probably move back home and take a desk job making the more typical 60-75k a year for awhile. We'll see how that goes, but its not easy taking a paycut that size.


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## 72camaross (Apr 26, 2010)

I graduated the same year as you, only on the other side of the country. I would say make yourself sane and work the job as long as possible. Retire at 35. Enjoy life.

ps. I'll take a job that pays in that range. No problem. 

Congrats and good luck.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Lol @ make yourself sane. You can't buy your health back.


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## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

Just an update to all those who have lent my situation their care and wisdom,

Only a few changes since the original post, These are the few things keeping me sane. 


I asked for 2 raises within 6 months and received one, with my VP implying that i would receive another one in the new year. 


Got back into the gym, hitting the weights heavy... one of the few things keeping me sane. 


I take time every other day to read and develop my personal investment strategies and core principles. It's not easy with my hours, but I do it with the hope that it will accelerate my retirement schedule. 

It's the politics that kill me, everything on my job is smoke and mirrors since we are headed to litigation. I can honestly say outside of shooting the breeze with co-workers, time at the gym, and chatting with the fam and the girl before bed, that not a single minute of my day is "free". 

Hope this pays off.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

so.. which contractor do you work for? You sound like a number of guys I work with!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

MoMoney said:


> I take time every other day to read and develop my personal investment strategies and core principles. It's not easy with my hours, but I do it with the hope that it will accelerate my retirement schedule.


Spending some time every day on your personal core principals will pay large dividends. It is what set me apart long before I had money to invest.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

Mm


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## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

twowheeled said:


> so.. which contractor do you work for? You sound like a number of guys I work with!


We're one of the only ones based out of Vancouver. EDIT: I'm Client Side



praire_guy said:


> Mm (Reason: Don't want to start a fight)


Good call.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

Are you guys hiring? 

Seriously though, it seems like you are asking for life advice just as much as you are asking for financial advice. You are making a LOT of money. You already have the condo, so to what end are you doing this for if you don't enjoy it? I know where you are coming from, since I'm in the same industry. Rolling out of bed at 4AM every morning for a 12 hour shift is not fun, neither is losing relationships with family and friends back home. 

I think you need to set yourself a goal ASAP. You need to plan on how much longer you are going to do this for, otherwise you will dig yourself deeper into this depression. (for me, the second I pay off my first house, or even most of it, I'm out of here) It's tough for me too, what if I have kids, what if I get married, what if I want a ferrari. I could just work x years longer and have all that. Consider that these things are all obtainable on the average persons salary. Well maybe not the ferrari but you get the picture. 

We joke about suicidal thoughts..but there have definately been some long shifts in the past where I've been in very dark and gloomy places. Even this year there was a suicide here which has been very hush hush. Your health (mental and physical) is not worth sacrificing. It sounds like you have a great girlfriend, no debt, and a nest egg built up. Why not get a leave of absence like suggested, or ask for a transfer back to BC, take some time off with the lady and travel. Have some fun and take the time to re-energize? It sounds to me like the only reason you are still at this job is money. Yet your financial situation indicates you are in awesome shape and retirement is in your horizon already. Did I mention there are proven studies linking shift work to lower life expectancy? Do you need any more motivation?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Early in my career I was working side-by-side with some shift workers, and they have a different mentality about work. I decided then to work at setting myself apart. Lessons need to be learned not taught.


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