# what no speaks on the great seducer



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i'm long that he was set up maybe by the le Pen ultra-right but i've got a short put just in case ...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The story is almost too incredible to believe. I'll wait for something resembling fact to fall out of this story.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I dunno it all seems very believable to me: from the articles I read that interviewed past employees and colleagues, he has never been able to control his sexual appetite very well. 

What's interesting (but understandable) is the shock expressed in France over the "perp walk" photos published in the US media and DSK's treatment as a common criminal. The French judge Eva Joly noted that the American justice system "doesn’t distinguish between the director of the I.M.F. and any other suspect." And personally I don't think it should. If you are accused of breaking the law, who you are shouldn't make a difference in how you're treated.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

It's funny how his hearing took place the same morning the US surpassed their debt ceiling. He was also critical of US debt restructuring. Intentional distraction? All the smoke & mirrors in politics makes my head hurt


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

brad said:


> The French judge Eva Joly noted that the American justice system "doesn’t distinguish between the director of the I.M.F. and any other suspect." And personally I don't think it should. If you are accused of breaking the law, who you are shouldn't make a difference in how you're treated.


Ought and is are different. I'm not sure the US justice system is all that egalitarian. There's far too much white-collar crime that goes unpunished in the US. Usually a few scapegoats are put up (like Martha Stewart and her frankly piddling insider trading case), but the vast bulk of the wrongdoing seems to go unremarked upon, much less prosecuted.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it's interesting how the name goldman sachs seems to lie close to the surface in this story.

now goldman was involved in a major greek debt scandal in 2010; and as head of the imf d strauss-kahn was known as mister bailout in the european community. On the very morning of his arrest in nyc he was preparing to fly to meet with angela merkel to discuss yet another major bailout of greece.

suppose, now, that he was set up in the new york sofitel. Brad's right about his history. He would have been easy to set up. All they had to do was send in the "maid."

to get it to work, sofitel would have to collaborate. The "maid" would need a credible background. As a maid. At that hotel.

now who owns sofitel. Why, goldman sachs is a partial owner. Among the loosely-structured owning partnership are french hotel chain accor, goldman sachs through its troubled US commercial real estate fund Whitehall - whitehall is, apparently, a big owner of las vegas gambling casinos - and little-known gem capital of chicago. 

factoids that may or may not be related: as ddkay says, the US was to pass its debt ceiling on monday. And euro banks are said to be severely vulnerable to any failure of greece. Vulnerable as in possible collapse of euro banking network.

turning now to the actual tabloid-style story, what seems out of whack to me is all this stern talk of dsk's violence, a possible 25 year jail sentence, the way the police promenaded him like a bigtime mafia don.

on that very same morning, in the city of new york alone, there must have occurred a thousand similar assaults. What, send all these folks up for 25 years ? in no time at all, one third of the population of gotham would be in the pen. The courts would be perpetually clogged with silver-haired white collars who had, regrettably, lunged at pantyhose.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

From this mornings NY Post 


> France's leading presidential candidate may have pounced on a Manhattan hotel maid -- but she wanted it, his lawyer asserted in court yesterday, hinting at what could be an explosive defense.
> 
> "The evidence, we believe, will not be consistent with a forcible encounter," said Ben Brafman, the high-powered lawyer of IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn, at the suspect's sensational arraignment in a packed criminal courtroom.
> 
> ...


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Honestly would not be surprised if Goldman had a huge short interest on the Eurozone


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

From yesterday night's Financial Times:


> Goldman reshuffles investment bank top ranks
> By Justin Baer in New York
> Published: May 16 2011 18:41 | Last updated: May 17 2011 01:07
> Goldman Sachs has shuffled the senior ranks of its investment banking arm as it seeks to repair client relationships that frayed during the bank’s public battles with regulators and politicians in the wake of the financial crisis.
> ...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> . There's far too much white-collar crime that goes unpunished in the US. Usually a few scapegoats are put up (like Martha Stewart and her frankly piddling insider trading case), but the vast bulk of the wrongdoing seems to go unremarked upon, much less prosecuted.


Name some! AFAIC, this sexual predator (disguished as a foreign gov't
official) deserves to be locked up and they should throw away the key.
He has criminal tendencies and uncontrollable sexual violent urges and there have been other women in the past that he has attacked. Another one has
just come forward and I'm sure there are a lot more that may step forward.

Reminds me of Stanley Kubrick's "A Clockwork Orange"...where they had
to lock up a serial rapist and treat him in such a way that even watching
a porn movie would make him throw up. 

The last 3 paragraphs of this movie description gives some insight into
an experimental treatment plan for sexual-violent deviates and they
thought he was "cured". 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_(film)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

hmmmmn i wonder what london banker richard gnodde gknew ...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Carver, I'm not saying anything about DSK's innocence or guilt. 

How many people have been charged with fraud as a result of the mortgage bubble in the US? Scant few--I can't recall hearing of any. But there was at least some fraud in terms of liar loans. The robosigning issue is probably suggestive of a failure to do any due diligence when bundling these mortgages and marketing them to investors.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

Interesting story for sure.

I wasn't paying much attention to the TV when it first came on, I though it was a promo for a Law & Order: SVU show.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Andrew.we got our signals crossed?
I wasn't referring to the "MerryMac/MiniMae" banking scandals due
to the sub prime mortgage rates fiasco. That WAS their own stupid
fault and they deserve to get what happened..selling
homes to people who couldn't afford them in the first place! They should
be all made to fork over their bonuses as punishment for their greed.

Then there was "superscam artist" Bernie Madoff and his Ponzi scheme that bilked investors out of hundreds of millions..well he got caught and punished under the laws and is serving time as well as giving up all of his possessions.

That's the way it should be for financial fraud artists that deliberately
go out to bilk investors and know full well what they are doing.

I was referring the the French head of the IMF..that horny old goat that
can't keep his shrivelled <censored> in his pants. He should be chemically
castrated in prison...after all we do it to our pets all the time..why not
to serial rapists?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^I think you're forgetting the judicial principle of presumed innocence. As this is the first offense of which I am aware of him being accused, I don't see how the 'serial' applies.

Madoff had nothing to do with mortgage fraud. His was just a straight-up Ponzi scheme.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> ^I think you're forgetting the judicial principle of presumed innocence. As this is the first offense of which I am aware of him being accused, I don't see how the 'serial' applies.


Well good buddy, another woman has come forward accusing him of raping
her..(just in the news yesterday)forget if it was in France..anyway, that's
two and I'm sure there could be more in the coming days.

he's out of control when it comes to his basic urges. I doubt that the
chamber maif/female hotel employee at that fancy hotel (Sofitel?)
he was staying at, did much to encourage him. All he has to see is
some part of the female anatomy and he's ready!

He probably doesn't need much encourage in the right circumstances..
but this is (in a way) similar to our "kernal Williams" and his two faced
life, where he was a colonel above all reproach on his day job and 
a night stalker off the job. The OPP had a hard time catching this guy
because of that personality trait. 

The French IMF guy would probably be termed a habitual offender if the
other woman testifies against him, so there is a good chance he will
serve some time in the US. 

From Wiki:
In Canada, the Habitual Offender Act in Canada dealt with multiple offenders. The law was repealed after a Law Commission Report of 1969 found it to be erratically applied and was often used against non-violent and non-dangerous offenders. In 1977, Part XXIV of the Criminal Code was enacted, providing for indeterminate or determinate sentences for offenders found to be dangerous who would be eligible for parole after three years.




> Madoff had nothing to do with mortgage fraud. His was just a straight-up Ponzi scheme.


I thought I said that. The sub mortgage prime fiasco, was the work of
hundreds/thousands across the US.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

brad said:


> What's interesting (but understandable) is the shock expressed in France over the "perp walk" photos published in the US media and DSK's treatment as a common criminal.


In France it is illegal to publish "perp walk" photos or footage as well as photos or footage of any alleged perpetrator wearing handcuffs or prison garb. This is a relatively new law (last 10 years I believe) that was passed to protect the presumption of innocence. French legislators believe that these images effect our ability to remain unbiased. 

Also, as he is a big deal in France (in the US the other inmates have probably never heard of him) he would be given differential treatment (not preferential) to protect his safety while in custody - I guess they are shocked because they expect the entire country to know who he is and think him as important as they do. 

Other women have started coming forward including a former maid at the same hotel who says she was victimized by him 9 years ago and several in Europe. He has been investigated for similar crimes in the past but not charged. ( I read that on my on-line news feed today). 

Ultimately, he'll have to resign. Sarkozy can breathe easier - this guy was his biggest hurdle to re-election next year.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm more curious about whether this means Carney will be moving on to the IMF. It'd be a shame. He's been a pretty solid central banker, but it might be nice to see a Canadian heading a major international institution.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> this means Carney will be moving on to the IMF.


Why not? Auditor General Sheila Fraser is being wooed by Pres Obama for
the position of auditor to clean up the IMF. So it looks like she may be
leaving her post here and heading down to NYC. Harper is anxious to
replace her with some of his "political appointees" that will play ball with
him, because she won't.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Not to say innocent people haven't been falsely imprisoned before, reminds me of the Assange sex scandal most recently

Or this, non-sex related story but still one very embarrassing to our government, G20 ‘geek’ Byron Sonne granted bail


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ I agree about Assange, and this DSK situation. That whole affair is highly suspicious.


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## ghostryder (Apr 5, 2009)

carverman said:


> Well good buddy, another woman has come forward accusing him of raping
> her..(just in the news yesterday)forget if it was in France..anyway, that's
> two and I'm sure there could be more in the coming days.



Ahhh, the well established law:

Accusations x 2 = absolute guilt



Something bugs me about this case. My wife commented " If some old man tried to stick his **** in my mouth, my teeth trump his limp **** any day. If he survived the blood loss, he'd be pissing through a catheder. " That kinda sums up the nagging skepticism I have. Both my sisters had similar comments.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

ghostryder said:


> Something bugs me about this case. My wife commented " If some old man tried to stick his **** in my mouth, my teeth trump his limp **** any day. *If he survived the blood loss, he'd be pissing through a catheder*. " That kinda sums up the nagging skepticism I have. Both my sisters had similar comments.


Well, I understand what you are saying through a woman's perspective,
but any injury to the perpretrator's "junk"..could be considered assault
under US law. I'm not saying that we should condone this horny old
goat's actions, but at the same time..unless it was a life and death
struggle, a jury would see it otherwise. Someone once said."Two wrongs
don't make a right".."Dubya"??..nevermind.

Generally, accusations need some supporting evidence. Rape kit etc.
If it was just and oral attempt, then it's the woman witness against 
probably a good defence lawyer..and lawyers have ways of tripping up
key witnesses at a trial and discrediting the witness.

Lawyer: "Miss <X>, Describe exactly what my client was supposed to have
done to you in his hotel room bathroom?
Witness:He ripped my uniform and tried to stick his <junk> down my throat!"
Lawyer: "And what were you doing at the time?"
Witness: I was cleaning the toilet".
Lawyer: "You were cleaning the toilet?"
Witness: "Yes"
Lawyer: "Who told you to clean the toilet?"
Witness: "It's part of my job.
Lawyer: So it's part of your job to go into my client's room and clean his
toilet or make his bed while he is present?
Witness: "Uh..I guess so?"
Lawyer: Doesn't the hotel policy state that a guest should not be disturbed
by housecleaning when the guest is present?"
Witness: "Yes..I suppose"
Lawyer: "Yes, you suppose?"
Lawyer: "Did you go into his room on such and such a night on purpose?"
Witness..no!..yes!..I'm confused..what was the question again?"


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## ghostryder (Apr 5, 2009)

carverman said:


> Well, I understand what you are saying through a woman's perspective,
> but any injury to the perpretrator's "junk"..could be considered assault
> under US law. I'm not saying that we should condone this horny old
> goat's actions, but at the same time..unless it was a life and death
> struggle, a jury would see it otherwise.



 Are you for real? 


I doubt you could find a jury that would convict a woman of assault for causing injury to a rapist during the course of an actual rape attempt. 

And frankly it would be a pretty stupid prosecutor who willingly prosecuted such a case. Especially if they had any political aspirations.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

there was another story about hotels & frenchmen. Seems the Meridien hotels used to have an architectural feature whereby 2 single rooms would share one single small vestibule, which in turn would open out into the main hotel corridor.

newspapers, room service, etc would be delivered to/left in the vestibule.

one guest happened to go get his newspaper au naturel, without his clothes, just out of the shower. Alas the inner door to his suite closed behind him. He was trapped naked in the vestibule.

he tried to attract the attention of other guests passing in the hallway by peeking around the vestibule door. Just his head. Sort of one eye. Psst SVP madame, he said to a woman walking by. Pas ce soir, she replied.

eventually he made it a few steps down the hall to a big plant stand, where the story goes that he crouched amidst the vegetation until somebody finally got hotel staff.

in the end the meridien had enuf probs w the vestibules that they eliminated them.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

Apparently the IMF has announced that DSK was not in New York on IMF business but was there privately. The article then went on to say that his contract with the IMF specifically forbade his having any private business dealings, in order to avoid the possibility of conflicts of interest. So I find myself wondering whether his $3000/night hotel suite was billed to the IMF or not.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

This story just gets weirder and weirder.

Information posted on other websites reveal that DSK has been charged with sodomy and is being kept in an area that holds inmates with communicable diseases.

The maid is a recent political refugee from Africa, and lives in a complex that houses people with aids.

He is 62 and 5 foot 8, 200 lbs.......not exactly the athletic type.

She is in her mid 30's. Don't know her height, weight or build though.

I have a hard time picturing a naked 62 year old man forcing a 32 year old woman to do anything, without getting his butt kicked. She could have booted him, bit him, punched him, or just start screaming. As far as I have read, she did none of the above.

I am going to keep an open mind until some actual evidence is presented.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

French newspapers have published the maid's name and picture. She is seeking political asylum in the US and is from Ghana, Africa. She appears young and attractive and has a 15 year old daughter.

One thing I don't get is, I am sure that if he wanted the company of an attractive woman in New York, all he had to do was open the phone book or talk to some hotel, cab or bar employees.

Did he think it was "safer" to sexually assault a hotel maid than call an escort?

Edit.........just read an article that says the incident happened around noon hour, and the maid was taken by EMS from the upscale Sofitel Hotel to the Roosevelt Hotel to be treated for minor injuries.........that is weird.........why would they take her to another hotel?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> Apparently the IMF has announced that DSK was not in New York on IMF business but was there privately. The article then went on to say that his contract with the IMF specifically forbade his having any private business dealings, in order to avoid the possibility of conflicts of interest. So I find myself wondering whether his $3000/night hotel suite was billed to the IMF or not.


Probably not. I think monsieur FSK (or whatever name he goes by) was
at the Sofitel laying down some deal under the table..and probably had
a few too many in his hotel suite. So when a young and attractive hotel
staffer came along to service his room..he thought he might as well get
some "personal service".

It's always the way with anybody that has some power/title in this world
when it comes to men and women. Abuse of that power will happen at
some point.whether its a sexual encounter, or a dirty deal under the table
in exchange for a sum deposited in a secret bank acct, or in this case
attempted rape.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> French newspapers have published the maid's name and picture. She is seeking political asylum in the US and is from Ghana, Africa. She appears young and attractive and has a 15 year old daughter.


Well who knows then...there might have been some "misleading signs" to
the old goat so that he would try an hump her and she would get enough
notariety in the press, that the US authorities might be very sympathetic
in her case. 



> One thing I don't get is, I am sure that if he wanted the company of an attractive woman in New York, all he had to do was open the phone book or talk to some hotel, cab or bar employees.


Well that is the $64,000 question. Chances are, after a few drinks he wasn't
thinking straight and feeling a bit frisky...she comes along perhaps to clean
his room/make his bed..and he says to her "oh BTW..since you're making
my bed..care to join me?" 



> Did he think it was "safer" to sexually assault a hotel maid than call an escort?


Are you kidding?..of course!..street walkers cost $$$$$ in NYC, and he could also get something else out of the bargain that he wasn't counting on.



> Edit.........just read an article that says the incident happened around noon hour, and the maid was taken by EMS from the upscale Sofitel Hotel to the Roosevelt Hotel to be treated for minor injuries.........that is weird.........why would they take her to another hotel?


Probably a management decision to avoid scandal publicity..at least at the beginning of the incident, and to get her out of the Sofitel..to avoid 
further bad publicity for the hotel.... by having cop cars show up...I would
think. 
at the front door.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

no she's not a recent political refugee & she's not from ghana.

sags it's so unlike you to lose your mind. Why don't you check your sources carefully.

as for carver, he seems to have lost his mind long ago, so the lurid ravings can be dismissed.

according to a story filed by sabine cessou in la tribune de genève, the lady married a fellow guinean, followed him to the US several years ago, is now divorced, holds a valid US green card in her own right, has family in nyc.

cessou specializes in reportage from the sous-maghreb, sub-saharan africa.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> no she's not a recent political refugee & she's not from ghana.
> 
> as for carver, *he seems to have lost his mind long ago, so the lurid ravings can be dismissed.*


A mind is a terrible thing to waste! 

BTW..I AM entitled to my own opinion, even if it's based on second hand sources!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think we can all agree that this story doesn't make much sense. We can only hope that more time and light will make it clearer. I think DSK is done as head of the IMF. If this case turns out the be a Assange-style political smear, he might still be a contender for the French presidency.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I stand corrected. The complainant was from Guinea, not Ghana as I said. The news source had it right.........I had the wrong country.

Her lawyer was quoted as saying that she is seeking asylum in the US, but there are other reports that she was working under a "green card" and has permanent resident status, but is not a US citizen. She is also reported to be widowed.

The police gave the impression that he was fleeing from the US, and hurried out of the hotel forgetting his cellphone. The facts are that he had booked the flight weeks ahead and called back to the hotel looking for his cellphone and asking them to bring it to him.

At this point, there is lots of information and disinformation being reported.

I doubt any news source has the complete and true story.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

DNA samples taken in the Dominique Strauss-Kahn case have confirmed traces of sperm on the maid's dress

The plot thickens...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

ddkay said:


> DNA samples taken in the Dominique Strauss-Kahn case have confirmed traces of sperm on the maid's dress
> 
> The plot thickens...


What a maroon! He couldn't wait, so he came all over her dress like
a 12year old pre-pubescent kid? I guess his little head rules!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

No words necessary, eh?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> No words necessary, eh?


Caption??

Thoughts going through the old lechers head..

FSK: "yum! n'est-ces pas?.."bad for me"? to 
hmmm...drool!!!...<censored>........the... First Lady!

Obama: "Whoa there old man! " You are not in the Sofitel anymore!"


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Oh, what's this... Strauss-Kahn Case Seen as in Jeopardy (NYT)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Heads will most definately roll over this one.

Bet they are really happy they made him do the "perp walk" now.

If half of this stuff is true...........this case is over.

Kudos to the police investigators though. They discovered all this stuff, when when they kept digging. They could have just sat back and let the criminal justice system ruin the guy.

Lots of red faces in the press corp as well............I would imagine.

Law suits?....................I am thinking big........really, really, big.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

ddkay said:


> Oh, what's this... Strauss-Kahn Case Seen as in Jeopardy (NYT)


This doesn't appear to be a straight-forward sexual assault case.

1. He was accused of "violent sexual assault" against her.
2. She talked over the phone with another incarcerated "con"? about
pursing sexual assault charges against him. 
3. She has links to criminals with drugs and money laundering.
4. Although there was "some" evidence collected of their sexual encounter,
she is claiming she was subject to "genital mutilation".

Sounds like another US..."go for the gold, while you have some kind of case
situation. "


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Heads will most definately roll over this one.
> 
> Bet they are really happy they made him do the "perp walk" now.
> 
> If half of this stuff is true...........this case is over.


IMO..the criminal portion of this case is over.

She wants to pursue a civil lawsuit against him in the hope of collecting
big bucks so that she doesn't have to work as a maid anymore.

With her "alleged" sexual mutilation, her lawyer could use it for jury fodder,
she may stand a chance of collecting something or nothing! In Ghana or
Ghiana..or wherever she's from...some Muslim cults there do sexually mutilate
their women on purpose, so they can't enjoy it, but if he used objects that
he had no business using in the course of the act, she may have a weak case, but that would require a gynecological exam by a qualified doctor 
and immediately after the alleged attack...not several weeks/months later
when she had the opportunity to do it again with someone else. 

If she blows her case and he is exonerated, he's on his way to the French
presidency..unless of course, there is some other new allegations of impropriety against him.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Don't assume any media report is true. People will say anything and do anything when it's in their best interest, especially to dismiss someones allegations when those allegations can bring down power.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> Don't assume any media report is true. People will say anything and do anything when it's in their best interest, especially to dismiss someones allegations when those allegations can bring down power.


Yes, I know..the US media and the feeding frenzy on high level cases distorts a lot of the real truth behind the case, but this is an interesting subject, since he was the head of the IMF, at least up until these charges were brought against him (for whatever reasons), and because he was a reasonably important person in the scale of things, he's was charged with allegations.

Whether she was a "plant" to extort money from him will become more evident
as time goes on..but this may not be the innocent victim situation as first
believed, with her involvement/boyfriend laundering drug money.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Here is a link to the letter sent from the prosecution to the defence lawyers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...n-the-accuser-of-strauss-kahn/article2083747/

Pretty clear.......she is a liar on many counts, and generally untrustworthy.

She is fraudulently seeking asylum in the US. She lied about the circumstances in her own country, including previous rapes and beatings.

She lied about what she did immediately following the "rape" at the hotel.

She lied on her taxes for the past 2 years. She claimed another person's child as a dependant and lied about her income so she could remain in public housing.

People with known criminal involvement have deposited money into here account totalling over 100,000.

She discussed the advantages of pursuing charges with an inmate. The call was recorded.

She is a liar and a scam artist, and she obviously isn't very good at it.

She should be charged with perjury, but it would be cheaper to deport her.

Civil trial?.........not by her unless she can pursue it from Guinea. Maybe he will, considering the vitriol he had to endure from mainstream media and bloggers. I notice that Fox News had little of their past coverage still accessible on their website...........hmmm.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> ,She should be charged with perjury, but it would be cheaper to deport her.


That's what they should do. The US jails are full. 

If she was truly raped, she wouldn't be cleaning the next room and come
back to clean the room where it allegedly happened. With her track record,
this appears to be a carefully planned and orchestrated "setup" so she could
collect more money..hoping he would pay up rather than face criminal
proceedings, but she forgot about how thorough the US justice system
can be.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I am pleased to see the guy partially exonerated. I mean he is a pervert but not a criminal, at least on these charges.

There were rumours of all kinds about him:
- he uncovered that Fort Knox contained no gold
- that his opponents in France wanted him kneecapped

What chance did he have?


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

So the prosecutors say she's a liar...

this sounds like an actual case of blame the victim...

Initial reports suggested that medical professionals documented that she had vaginal bruising and when they did DNA testing they found his semen...

She's a liar? She's been raped before? She defrauded her taxes? She's a maid? She did what you didn't expect her to do and kept cleaning rooms? 

It doesn't matter. Consider the circumstances in which a sexual act causes observable bruises. Throw his *** in jail with the rest of the sexual deviants. 

It's obscene to me that if a person comes up to me on the street and hits me on the head with a stick and causes bruises there's no questions asked I call the police and they charge him with assault. If the same guy rapes me, they're going to start looking at my income taxes? This doesn't even make sense...


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> It's obscene to me that if a person comes up to me on the street and *hits me on the head with a stick *and causes bruises *there's no questions asked* I call the police and they charge him with assault.


Hmmm.. let's lets break this one into bite size expressions..

1. an Obscene (perceived) situation
2. walking down street
3. perp hits victim on head with stick for no reason
4. Victim sustains bruises on head
5. no questions asked by victim (ie: what for you hit me on head with big stick and who are you?)
6. victim calls police on cell phone
7. police arrest perp and charge him with assault.

Ok...go ahead....



> If the same guy rapes me, they're going to start looking at my income taxes? This doesn't even make sense...


8.perp now accused by victim of rape
9. police look at victims income tax
10. nothing makes sense to police

.....hmmm..police after further scratching their heads....

11. lets look at who else the victim called on cell phone..

12. ah! ha!..victim called boyfriend...and other "friends"... and 
discussed sueing perp for personal injury...victim needs money for
lawyer (lier) to set up case for personal injury..$100,000 deposited
in her account..wait a minute here!..isn't she just making a "cleaning
staff" wage at the Sofitel..what else do we have here????...

..what's this?...false income tax declarations too!!..declaring kids
she doesn't have?...


----------



## ghostryder (Apr 5, 2009)

Berubeland said:


> So the prosecutors say she's a liar...
> 
> this sounds like an actual case of blame the victim...
> 
> Initial reports suggested that medical professionals documented that she had vaginal bruising and when they did DNA testing they found his semen...



Initial reports also suggested that Iraq was being invaded because Saddam had WMD's. Initial reports suggested that Guy Paul Morin murdered Christine Jessop. Initial reports suggested that a pregnant Carol Stuart was murdered and her husband Charles was wounded during a carjacking by a black gunman. Initial reports are not always right.





Berubeland said:


> It doesn't matter.


It absolutely does matter. In the absence of conclusive evidence and witnesses, credibility does matter. Especially if the victim lies to the grand jury.



Berubeland said:


> Consider the circumstances in which a sexual act causes observable bruises.


Bruising can happen even with consentual intercourse. One of my ex-GF's bruised herself repeatedly while masturbating with a "toy". 

Some people are more suseptible to bruising than others, certain medical conditions, drugs, and even vitamin deficiencies can also make one more suseptible to bruising than "normal".

Bruising can indicate a sexual assault. But it is only a possible indicator.




Berubeland said:


> Throw his *** in jail with the rest of the sexual deviants.


No trial or evidence needed. Berubeland knows all. You wouldn't be related to former pathologist "Dr." Charles Smith, by any chance, would you?




Berubeland said:


> It's obscene to me that if a person comes up to me on the street and hits me on the head with a stick and causes bruises there's no questions asked I call the police and they charge him with assault. If the same guy rapes me, they're going to start looking at my income taxes? This doesn't even make sense...



But if you are a chronic lier who has made phony claims of being assaulted in the past, and you report that you have been assaulted and there is no conclusive evidence or credible witnessess that support your assertion that an assault occurred in the first place, and you lie to the grand jury.....


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

ghostryder said:


> It absolutely does matter. In the absence of conclusive evidence and witnesses, credibility does matter. Especially if the victim lies to the grand jury.


*<quote online sources>*"Her lawyer, Kenneth Thompson, said after the hearing his client's story had never wavered and that Strauss-Kahn had bruised her badly and tore a ligament in her shoulder....
They also discovered the woman made a phone call to a jailed man within a day of her encounter with Strauss-Kahn in which she discussed the possible benefits of pursuing the charges against him, the paper said.

The conversation was recorded. *The man was among a number of people who had made multiple cash deposits, totaling around $100,000*, into the woman's bank account over the last two years, The New York Times said.

The attack was so violent, according to the lawyer, that Strauss-Kahn ripped the maid's stockings and tore a ligament in her shoulder.

'That is a medical fact. She now *may need *surgery for the damage he caused to her shoulder,' he added.
'After he finished, she got up and started to run for that door and started spitting Dominique Strauss-Kahn's semen out of her mouth in disgust all over that hotel room.'

In court papers, the DA's office said she admitted lying to the grand jury about what happened in the moments after the alleged attack.

"The complainant has since admitted that after the incident in Suite 2806, she proceeded to clean a nearby room and then returned to Suite 2806 and began to clean that suite before she reported the incident to her supervisor," they said.
*<endquote.*


Ummm? So a ligament was torn..(now I've torn ligaments and that is a lot of
pain after the event), but she quietly went to clean another room? ( and half naked perhaps? as he had allegedly torn the clothes off her in the violent attack) then cleaned that room... and then returned to clean the room they were in.........THEN later on at the end of her shift mentioned the "violent attack" against her to her supervisor.

Hmmm..something fishy here..nes't-ce pas? 

And these are some of the key points that is her undoing..even if the alleged "rape" took place by some indication that it started off as a friendly tete-e-tete conversation about French Giana and the fact that he and she might have hit it off speaking french.


"Fly-on-wall" in $3000 a night suite 2806:

Maid:<knock-knock> Housecleaning messier!
DSK: Come in.
Maid: Do you want me to clean your suite now?
DSK..,noting french maid "uniform"....please..we have lots of time..sit down
where are you from?
Maid: French Guiana
DSK..eyeing her female attributes..oh so you speak french?
Maid: yes
They engage in french conversation.
DSK..would you like some nice french wine..mademoiselle?
Maid: I'm not supposed to drink on the job..but well..one glass isn't going
to hurt me I suppose.

Two glasses later..conversation turns to "alleged rape in French Guiana, and
her humiliation..etc etc...tears about mistreatment..asylum in US...
DSK comforts her and maybe a kiss...

One thing leads to another...

Afterwards: Maid puts on crumpled torn uniform, pulls up torn stockings and
adjusts torn ligament in shoulder...

Maid as she leaves his room" Messier, you were too rough when you flung me
on my back..my shoulder is dislocated..but I must finish my cleaning and
vacumming..is there anything else I can do for you messier?

DSK: non..that will be all..and please come back and clean the mess on the
floor!

Maid: very well messier!




> Bruising can indicate a sexual assault. But it is only a possible indicator.


Is there a doctor in the house?


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

It is a shame to me that the alleged perp has lost his job at the IMF based on allegations made. The prosecuters need to track every one of those deposits to her account and find out which people financed this apparent smear campaign.

The guy is definitely a slease-bag. But is he guilty of rape?


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

kcowan said:


> It is a shame to me that the alleged perp has lost his job at the IMF based on allegations made. The prosecuters need to track every one of those deposits to her account and find out which people financed this apparent smear campaign.


I'm sure if he is actually vindicated, and so far he has been released on
his house arrest and can travel within the US, he will go back to France
and start his campaign for the French presidency. After all with no
criminal record, only allegations of some sexual indiscretion(s), knowing
the French, it will be forgotten quickly. All he has to do is keep his
nose clean from now on..if that's possible with him with his libido.

More investigation needs to take place, so the message is out there
that "staged rapes" or whatever, will not be tolerated by the US Justice
system for monetary gain.

Besides, if the dna evidence was collected off the carpet..how does that
prove rape? He could have been watching a porn movie and relieved himself.



> The guy is definitely a slease-bag. But is he guilty of rape?


Only a jury can make that decision and even then, with the new information,
I doubt they would be able to convict him on rape..perhaps on some other 
lesser charge and he would appeal that and get off on the lesser charge,
and leave the US for France and continue on there.


----------



## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

FWIW a French lady that I know tells me that he would simply be able to get away with this in France. It is still a society where females and especially females of perceived lower status could not usually challenge a male in Kahn's position. Perhaps he thought that the same rules applied in the US. 

Unfortunately if this alleged victim has anything negative whatsoever in her background, Kahn's expert lawyers will make her look like the sister of Satan. Kahn doesn't seem to deny sexual activity. I can't imagine a scenario where a chamber-maid voluntarily offered such services. If it was a setup, I think a different type of person would have been picked than someone with her somewhat unstable background.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> 1. It is still a society where females and especially females of perceived lower status could not usually challenge a male in Kahn's position.
> 
> 2. Unfortunately if this alleged victim has anything negative whatsoever in her background, Kahn's expert lawyers will make her look like the sister of Satan.
> 
> 3. I can't imagine a scenario where a chamber-maid voluntarily offered such services.


1. How Europeans view/treat adultery is one thing, rape is another matter entirely.

*French Penal Code:*

Any act of sexual penetration, whatever its nature, committed against another person by violence, constraint, threat or surprise, is rape. Rape is punished by a maximum of fifteen years' criminal imprisonment.

Rape is punished by a maximum of twenty years' criminal imprisonment in certain aggravating factors (including victim under age of 15).

Rape is punished by a maximum of thirty years' criminal imprisonment where it caused the death of the victim.

Rape is punished by a maximum of imprisonment for life when it is preceded, accompanied or followed by torture or acts of barbarity.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape

2. If what has been written about her is accurate, I would think the appropriate adjective would be *criminal,* rather than mere 'negative'. 

Assessing her credibility, especially in absence of witnesses and sufficient & conclusive evidence, credibility is most definitely crucial. In fact, it is not only key in a case such as rape, but also a very legitimate way in determining the validity of her case. Don't all such cases hinge upon evidence as well as victim's credibility anyway? How do jurors/judge arrive at a verdict?

3. The latest allegations is that she was more than just a maid at the hotel; if true, then perhaps she initiated the act and may have been paid for it as well.

We can joke around here, take sides based on what we read and make biased conclusions even, however, this isn't a laughing matter for the true victim [whoever that ends up to be].


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Assessing her credibility, especially in absence of witnesses and sufficient & conclusive evidence, credibility is most definitely crucial. In fact, it is not only key in a case such as rape, but also a very legitimate way in determining the validity of her case. Don't all such cases hinge upon evidence as well as victim's credibility anyway? *How do jurors/judge arrive at a verdict?*3.


By the FACTUAL AND REAL evidence presented at the trial and key information. and instructions given by a judge, I would expect. 



> The latest allegations is that she was more than just a maid at the hotel; if true, then perhaps she initiated the act and may have been paid for it as well.


Well if she was a muslim employee..wearing a hijab and cleaning his room,
I'm sure he wouldn't have attempted to grope or rape as the case may be,
so obviously, it's a case of "she says" vs "he says" and that is not good
evidence to proceed with the trial. Had she ran down the hall semi-naked
screaming for help and the cops called right away, her story would have
been more credible since a crime would definitely appear to be committed.

But the delays and the additional room cleaning and the background checks
blow her credibility right out the window ..pardon the pun.

If she was subjected to oral sex (as some of the newspaper articles suggest),
then how is it a case of rape? Maybe it was voluntary, and maybe this wasn't
the first time the two of them had met?

If she was on staff, she could have been assigned to cleaning his suite
and this is a "high roller hotel" and perhaps gotten very friendly over a 
period of time to be on a first name basis with him..and maybe there was
more to it than just housecleaning. 
He being a known lecher (don't know where his wife was at the time), would
take certain "hints" or body language as invitation. 

And another thing..how would the act of performing oral sex dislocate or tear one of her shoulder ligaments?
To tear a shoulder ligament,(and there are 4 of them + tendons), the arm or shoulder would have to be twisted severely and very violently, like a fall from a high place.. or a very brutal force that tears the arm out of the socket. 
If that was the case, she would be in a lot of pain, and not doing any room
cleaning afterwards! So that part doesn't hold water IMO. 

http://www.stockmedicalart.com/medicalartlibrary/shoulder-joint-ligaments.html




> We can joke around here, take sides based on what we read and make biased conclusions even, however, this isn't a laughing matter for the true victim [whoever that ends up to be].


Well it HAS turned into a media circus, as a lot of the high profile US cases
do, so we are not laughing in the sense that we find it funny..just that
it turned out to be another bizarre case..like the OJ Simpson trial.
In reality, OJ should have been rotting in jail for the brutal murders of his
wife and her friend (Goldman). He got off on a technicality or two..and
the fact that the cops didn't do their job the way they were supposed to..
so things like fingerprints and blood samples were not taken in time.
He did get sued in civil proceedings by the family, because in civil proceedings, the evidence presented doesn't have to be accurate and factual, but that there is a "preponderance of evidence"..and in OJ's case there definitely was!


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Again, don't believe everything the media feeds you. You have absolutely NO way of knowing if any of this is true. The only way you would know, if you were there at the time it happened or did not happen.

I have no bone in this matter, I could care less if the guy is guilty or not, my point is, don't believe reports in the media as the gospel truth. Even in the case of law, witnesses under oath, seemingly credible (and sometimes credible, just mislead) witnesses can give misleading information, and in turn the public mistakenly takes as the truth.

Don't believe me? There are many many cases which has had the public believing one thing, then more information is found, and the initial reports were found to be false.

I have witnessed things first hand, that, if you went on the story in the media alone you would have no idea they were discussing that same event. 

Case in point, in a recent case I was involved with, the guy who was injured, lying in the hospital, saw a report on a major news channel about his "uncle" telling the world about him. The injured guy had never met the man before.. certainly was not his uncle.





sags said:


> Here is a link to the letter sent from the prosecution to the defence lawyers.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...n-the-accuser-of-strauss-kahn/article2083747/
> 
> ...


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

There are cases that are media trials. In Canada, these cases are generally
move to other cities and a blackout is ordered on daily proceedings until
the trial is over.

One famous case was the Steven Truscott case, where witnesses claimed
"he rode off with the victim on his bicycle". 
This was their opinion and only evidence that tied him was the fact that
he was seen being with her the day of the murder.

Key evidence such as DNA was not available at the time as it is now,
and he was convicted as a juvenile in adult court. Spent time in penitentiary
and in later years was exonerated because of additional evidence not presented at time of trial making his case fall into the "reasonable doubt"
category.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Sadly the media is reality to 99% of people, and the media is trying to sensationalize in anyway possible, not trying to portray an accurate reality at all. Having been interviewed myself, I hate just watching interviews it makes me want to smack the journalists.

Also, in Europe for example, the media is not aloud to snap pictures of the accused walking into court to plaster all over TV like they did with this case.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The "perp walk" is something designed by the police and prosecution to publicly embarass the accused, and bolster public opinion in their favour. Future jurors would probably see and remember the accused entering police custody in handcuffs.

It should be outlawed, as it is in Europe.

High profile cases of any kind, tend to bring out the loony fringe to parade around in front of the courtroom.

For a sickening display of what this media hype causes, check out the Youtube videos of people camping in front of Casey Anthony's parents home, with big signs covered in accusations against them. Some of the losers even accost the parents whenever they are outside.

In one video, a woman even drags her kid along to hurl insults at the parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWPW_z7hAHc&feature=related


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Sadly the media is reality to 99% of people, and the media is trying to sensationalize in anyway possible, not trying to portray an accurate reality at all. Having been interviewed myself, I hate just watching interviews it makes me want to smack the journalists.


I will respectfully disagree with your number [not subject matter] as I don't believe that 99% of us are gullible. 

I would say that many of us read more than just one source; can detect bias, are interested in much more than mere sensational headlines and actually try to learn the facts of the story, though of course it's difficult to at times [if not impossible] as we have to rely on others. I read enough to know that 'some' reporters purposely obscure the truth and at times blatantly lie even, but there is also accurate, compassionate, honest and objective reporting.

The world is full of all kinds of liars and that is the truth!


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> In one video, a woman even drags her kid along to hurl insults at the parents.


Well this is another example of trailer trash..without the trailers.
I find it hard to believe that US "society" has deteriorating to this... concrete jungle mentality...and there are a few media programs that use this as
camera fodder...anyway..getting back to high profile cases...

If I was a betting man, I would put my money on "victim #1"..DSK because
this can be considered a smear campaign against him, and no doubt he
was replaced at the IMF because of the embarrassment it caused.
He's already pleaded NOT GUILTY, so the onus is on the court system to
prove that he is...and that is not going to be easy at this point because
of the media circus surrounding this case. Finding any unbiased juror except maybe in timbuctoo....is going to prove to be difficult now..it's all over the networks.. and the case hasn't even gone to trial yet!

Even if the prosecution decided to take a chance and drag his *** into court, "victim #2" has a lot of 'splaining to do on the witness stand. 
She is not going to come across to any jury as a credible witness, so the judge
could just tell the jury to disregard her testimony.

So then what have we left?..some dna evidence collected off the carpet?
.... and her lawyer/liar is now doing a cover up with new media "spin" to reduce the media damage done to her case to sue him for damages. 

This is assinine when the lawyers fight it out outside the courtroom..that will certainly comprimise any possiblilty of victim #2 winning her case in court.

She might have had some chance at the beginning but she should have:

-called for help/police immediately..not hours later
- gone into a hospital with police to collect dna evidence on her and
- get a mri/xray of the alleged torn shoulder ligament....
- kept her mouth shut.. well...at least on the cell phone..

then she would have had a better chance of collecting damages, even
if she is a media "wh#$e.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Well this is another example of trailer trash..without the trailers.


LOL Carverman. 

Did I ever tell you how much you make me LAFF sometimes?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> I will respectfully disagree with your number [not subject matter] as I don't believe that 99% of us are gullible.
> 
> I would say that many of us read more than just one source; can detect bias, are interested in much more than mere sensational headlines and actually try to learn the facts of the story, though of course it's difficult to at times [if not impossible] *as we have to rely on others*. I read enough to know that 'some' reporters purposely obscure the truth and at times blatantly lie even, but there is also accurate, compassionate, honest and objective reporting.
> 
> The world is full of all kinds of liars and that is the truth!


Yes ok, my actual train of through was that 99% of people rely on second hand info to portray reality to them (they don't see, hear, witness anything themselves besides what happens in their tiny world)

Critical thinkers would lower that number though, I agree. Maybe 80% or so. Even critical thinkers that rely on solely books are bias, unless they find books from many perspectives that is pretty much non existent/carefully controlled


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I just can't believe the number of people that seem willing to condemn the alleged victim (this lady) at this point in time. Defense lawyers can make all sorts of insinuations sound very damning and we've seen how effective this was in the OJ Simpson trial. I've spent quite a bit of time in France and believe that the class system and misogyny is still very much a factor in that society. 

I think, at least, we have to wait until the trial before we can judge the validity of the evidence on both sides. We do pretty well know, however, that a very powerful man had some sort of sexual encounter with a women who would be seen as having a fairly low status in society. That doesn't necessarily automatically make him guilty of a crime, but when the women claims to be a victim I think we have to give her the opportunity to properly present her case without further denigrating her.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

A powerful, but stupid man who disregarded his office and high political status has been brought down. Not the first time this has happened either. 
The "Guvernator" is another one that just couldn't control himself. 

Sad case but enough factual evidence can still be collected, perhaps they
will proceed with the trial.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> I just can't believe the number of people that seem willing to condemn the alleged victim (this lady) at this point in time.


I know your comment was in general, but I merely stated that assessing credibility was a crucial part of the legal process, so I'm not sure how is that condemning anyone.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's hard to say, but apparently this is part of a pattern of behaviour that shamefully went unreported in France. It's a shame that France's elites turn a blind eye to predatory behaviour.


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I have no use for the man, whether he's guilty of rape, or whether he isn't, but what I found most interesting about these latest developments is that they were brought forward by the prosecution, not by his defense counsel. Doesn't that give the allegations against her some added credibility?


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> but what I found most interesting about these latest developments is that they were brought forward by the prosecution, not by his defense counsel. Doesn't that give the allegations against her some added credibility?


<from online sources>
QUESTIONS EMERGE
Prosecutors found issues with her asylum application, tax return and statements to the grand jury investigating the assault case, court documents showed.

Prosecutor Joan Illuzzi-Orbon told the court "the facts of the sexual encounter was and is corroborated" *but some details appear to have changed.*

<end of online sources.

Well, I guess, after all the media hoopla and "she says/he says",
there is still some facts and perhaps circumstantial evidence that he assaulted her.

He may be hauled into court on assault charges, and that has more chance
of getting a jury verdict than the rape accusations at first. If convicted,
and that's a big IF, he could spend some time in a US prison, or face
further legal action for damages by the accuser (victim) in civil court..so
it's not over yet in regards to the assault case, as there are many ways
an assault can take place. 

If he truly wrenched her shoulder in forcing her to comply with his brutal
demands, then there should be evidence presented to the court on that.

He had no business as a hotel guest to assault a hotel employee and on
that basis alone, there is grounds to sue him for assault, both by the hotel
and the victim..whether that happens remains to be be seen.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Perhaps this was the song?

DSK: 
Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Whatever ideas you have in your mind
I’ll show them to you when we start to grind

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Stay, lady, stay, stay with this man for awhile
Until the break of day, let me see you make him smile
His mind is dirty but his hands are clean
And you’re the best thing that he’s ever seen

Stay, lady, stay, stay with me awhile
Why wait any longer for the money to roll in
You can have your <cake> and eat it too
Why wait any longer for the one you think you love
When I'm standing in front of you

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Stay, lady, stay, stay while the night is still ahead
I long to see you in the morning light
I long to reach for you in the night
Stay, lady, stay, stay while the night is still ahead


----------



## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

FLASH: French writer Tristane Banon to file charges against Strauss-Kahn on Tuesday for alleged sexual assault in 2002 - lawyer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristane_Banon#Alleged_sexual_assault_by_Dominique_Strauss-Kahn

Talk about going nowhere fast


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

ddkay said:


> FLASH: French writer Tristane Banon to file charges against Strauss-Kahn on Tuesday for alleged sexual assault in 2002 - lawyer


acted like a chimpanzee in heat...how would they know?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ted-like-chimpanzee-on-heat-woman-claims.html

But... his current wife (#3 Anne Sinclair) is supporting him claiming his "innocence".
.and another strange thing...Wife #2 has now also "stepped forward" to say
that the charges can't be true..."it's not in his character".

DSK was living in a $50K per month luxury townhouse during his house arrest.
Like..the guy is loaded and has no problem attracting..well..you can guess the
rest. 

More media info: Apparently, it was not the first time DSK and "victim" had
"encounters" as more investigation takes place. 
Also the deposits ($100K) in her bank acct(s) were not from those that
were connected to drug sources..so it would seem that these deposits
were in "payment" for some kind of services normally reserved for high
class ladies of the night..typically around $10K. 
As an example, DB (married to a former spice girl) (allegedly) paid $10K for the services of a professional.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

This is a huge mess.

This story doesn't really matter anymore, as DSK is now effectively a nobody.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I doubt the French want to look as foolish as the Americans.

There is a no way to prove or disprove a... he said......she said.....case from 9 years ago. No witnesses, no DNA, no evidence, foggy memories.

She claims he tried to unhook her bra and remove her jeans.

Maybe he did......maybe he didn't, but he doesn't have to prove it didn't happen. To be successful, and not embarrass themselves completely, the prosecution would have to prove it did happen.

How would they do that now?


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> I doubt the French want to look as foolish as the Americans.
> Maybe he did......maybe he didn't, but he doesn't have to prove it didn't happen. To be successful, and not embarrass themselves completely, the prosecution would have to prove it did happen.
> 
> How would they do that now?


Good question. In Canada, the parochial school teachers (priests) have been convicted after 30-40 years, of sexual abuse on students based on former students coming forward and corroborating their stories.
Sure, it's circumstantial evidence after 40 odd years and no dna, but even in Canada's more sane justice system, it has happened..and priests AND sports coaches,teachers, anyone that had a position of responsibility with young children on grounds of
sexual molestation.

There was a case in Cornwall Ont; of this a few years back.

All she (Banon)has to do is make a sworn statement before the court of attempted sexual impropriety against
her as a reporter interviewing him. She was not his GF
or wife, where his actions could have been taken in
a different light. She was a stranger. If a stranger comes to one's home (or office) to interview, and is
attacked or molested, that person (usually a female) has
every right to call police and file charges. In court, the
accused (and his lawyer) would have to convince a judge
and jury that it didn't happen as stated in the sworn statement. Lawyers are trained in using directly specific
lines of questioning and perhaps "leading questions" to extract "truth" out of witnesses, and she and he would be a witness in this case.

Now the media is reporting that he is going to sue Banon for slander...as IF his reputation is squeaky clean at this point.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

why don't we say TGIF - thank god it's france - & leave this poor wornout old bone of a story to the tabloids where it belongs.

carverman what have you got to say on something relevant & serious. Like, how are you voting on the outfits worn each day by the beauteous princess as she continues her triumphal sweep from sea to shining sea ...


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

LOL at the new meaning of TGIF.  

I'm not passing judgment nor condemning anyone here [spidey], but the reality is that these days anyone can sue anybody and some crooks simply use the court system for frivolous lawsuits. 

We have to remember that an accusation does not translate into automatic evidence nor guilt and that a cheater/pervert/philanderer/womanizer or person suffering from Satyriasis, hmmm, of which many politicians appear to be suffering from lately [or for equality sake, nymphomaniacs], does not equal rapist.

For an innocent person, I can't even imagine what it must feel to be accused unjustly [of any crime] and/or be on the receiving end of a frivolous lawsuit and same goes for ALL victims of miscarriages of justice.

I agree with HP, let's give this topic a break until there is more to debate/believe.

************
I'm actually quite sick & tired to hear about what Kate is wearing.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> why don't we say TGIF - thank god it's france - & leave this poor wornout old bone of a story to the tabloids where it belongs.


But it's so "juicy"..and ridiculous. Apparently the NY DA is about ready to
toss the case, based on the credibility of the accuser. The other case against
him is in France..and it may not hold much water now...but stay tuned for the
book by Banon...because, it may even get to the best seller list there once
her case gets tossed out as well. 
Moral of the story...there is no morals..it's all about money! 



> carverman what have you got to say on something relevant & serious. Like, how are you voting on the outfits worn each day by the beauteous princess as she continues her triumphal sweep from sea to shining sea ...


This should be a separate thread, but I'll just make a small point. She is
wearing whatever she wants to wear to set the fashion statement. White
outfits seem to be predominant, but its summer after all. Of all the Royals,
these two seem to have captured the hearts and mind of Canadians..and
that's probably a good thing.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Moral of the story...*there is no morals*..it's all about money!


For many cases, it's so true.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

<from online sources>

*NEW TWIST*:
In yet another twist to a saga that has captivated much of the world, the *accuser* sued the New York Post and five of its journalists on Tuesday for reporting she was a prostitute.

She filed suit in a court in the Bronx, accusing the Post of publishing false and defamatory articles between July 2-4.

The Post reported that the Sofitel housekeeper was a "hooker" who "routinely traded sex for money with male guests" and that after the purported May 14 assault, while under the protection of the District Attorney's office, she "was turning tricks on the taxpayer's dime," the lawsuit said.

The Post said, "We stand by our reporting."

<end of online quote.


Privileged Fly-on-the-wall in the Sofitel:

DSK: alors! mon cheri..what kept you? 
The Maid: <dressed in a fancy french made uniform>
"Relax Dominique"...The traffic was brutal, and the taxi driver insisted on
a "tip"..so I had no choice but..."
DSK: You wasted time on that low life?
The Maid: Forget about it ok? Now do you have that cash I asked you for?..
DSK: yes, there is a roll of 100 Ben Franklins right here in my pants pocket, but you may have to ..
The Maid" Oui! Oui!..I know the drill!


*in other news...*
the Duke and Duchess are enjoying their visit to Yellowknife.
The Duke wore his typical blue suit and the duchess looked stunningly spectacular in her cream dress from a danish designer...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...am-dress-from-danish-designer/article2087564/

Prince William aka the Duke of Cambridge, attempted to score with a hockey stick on a aboriginal goalie..after 3 attempts it was declared a "shutout"

The crowd asked Kate to step up to the "plate" ,and take a shot at the goalie, but she respectfully declined.

*In other news..*

The last space shuttle is landing for good. 

The era of the extravagant "inner" space
missions is over. Costing about 30 billion, (double what it
was to cost when the first one was launched in the 70s), the growing disinterest in shuttle missions, as well the "skyrocketing" US national debt has cast a grim reality on future space missions.

The remaining space shuttles will become museum pieces. One will be destined for a kids playground at McDonalds. When NASA was interviewed whether it was such a good idea to have 4 year olds clambering over an expensive piece of space junk, NASA officials exclaimed that at least taxpayers will get some pleasure from their money to see their kids practice being future astronauts..when the US budget finally gets balanced in 2099..of course. 

"But by then these kids will be nearly 85 years old!" exclaimed the media reporters. 
"Remember Captain Kirk's famous line "Beam me up Scotty?" retorted NASA.
"Well we are working on that..as we speak".


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Strauss-Kahn faces new charges:



> PARIS — A young French author formally accused Dominique Strauss-Kahn of attempted rape on Tuesday and broke her long public silence with a dramatic account of fending off an attacker who ripped at her clothes as they fought on his apartment floor.


http://thechronicleherald.ca/World/1251981.html

Much of the criticism of the chambermaid seems associated with her association with people who have had trouble with the law, her lack of directness with authorities and her mention that she may pursue Strauss-Kahn for monetary damages.

However, it doesn't surprise me in the least that a low-income person of questionable immigration status may have some association with someone in jail or that she may not be totally direct with authorities. However, that doesn't mean that they are "fair game" to be preyed upon. (A circumstance that may well be considered by some perpetrators.) As for her wanting monetary damages, why is this held up as being so damning? If Strauss-Kahn was alleged to have beaten someone to a pulp, nobody would raise an eyebrow if they suggested going after monetary damages. Why should sexual assault be immune? 

Again, it's up to a court to decide Strauss-Kahn's guilt or innocence, but there certainly seems to be a reasonable amount of "smoke" concerning this individual.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> However, it doesn't surprise me in the least that a low-income person of questionable immigration status , that doesn't mean that they are "fair game" to be preyed upon.


we have agreement there. 



> As for her wanting monetary damages, why is this held up as being so damning? If Strauss-Kahn was alleged to have beaten someone to a pulp, nobody would raise an eyebrow if they suggested going after monetary damages. Why should sexual assault be immune?


It depends on the circumstances of how it happened. 



> Again, it's up to a court to decide Strauss-Kahn's guilt or innocence, but there certainly seems to be a reasonable amount of "smoke" concerning this individual.


More like "fog".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Spidey,

We shouldn't understate the importance of victim "credibility" in these kinds of cases.

Because of the way the system has developed to handle these cases whereby a person can be arrested and charged with a serious crime, without any evidence or witnesses, and solely on the statements of the victim........ the victim's credibility becomes a very important issue.

If a person is a perpetual liar, is known to have criminal associations, lied repeatedly including in sworn testimony before a grand jury, is known to be a tax fraud and a low income housing fraudster........there should be some consideration by those charged with enforcing the law, that she may actually be lying..........once again.

I doubt many women who have been raped, almost immediately contemplate the monetary advantages of their situation and discuss it with convicted felons in prison.

If a victim is raped, and her background and character cause problems with the prosecution of charges against the perpetrator......they only have themselves to blame for it.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

sags said:


> We shouldn't understate the importance of victim "credibility" in these kinds of cases.


Glad someone else agrees with this!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> We shouldn't understate the importance of victim "credibility" in these kinds of cases.
> 
> If a victim is raped, and her background and character cause problems with the prosecution of charges against the perpetrator......they only have themselves to blame for it.


can't believe this thread is still going...

In Canada, the fed gov't passed bill C-49 (Rape shield) so that in most
cases previous "history' could not necessary be used as evidence, however
it is not a complete shield, as it is up to the discretion of the court, in only in certain circumstances.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

What's the real story behind the persecution of these French leaders?
After DSK, it is now Lagarde, his replacement (although charges of a different nature).

_French Court to Investigate Lagarde Accusation_
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903366504576487882765895202.html

Has anyone got it in for the French?


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