# Sometimes lawmakers are unaware of the consequences



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Dumb laws..everyone probably has heard of one at least..don't feed the Moglai after
midnight because they will turn into Gremlins and that's an ugly car to drive.

There used to be a show on CBC many years ago..probably before some of
you youngsters were born..called "This is the Law". where silly ordinances
and bylaws were enacted in skits for the panel to comment on. 

In Ontario, running red lights is becoming an alarming habit of motorists that
are not in complete control and going to fast to stop for the red lights.

So in Illinois..they pass a traffic law that allows bicycles and motorcylces to
go through red lights because the vehicles are too light to trip the light sensors
on the roadway...duh!!!!!!
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...motorcyclists-drive-red-lights-011851761.html


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## ctardi (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm a long time lurker, but this motivated me to register...finally...

We have a similar law in BC (or at least I've been told we have it...I use it occasionally). How is it a problem? 

Our sensors work on an induction loop. My motorcycle with metal wheels trips them no problem. Carbon fiber wheels? You'll be waiting for a while. Some lights only have one sensor, and if I get there first with my CF wheels, nobody gets to go through the light. This happens to me quite often, as I live on a smaller side street that goes onto a main road. There are rarely pedestrians when I leave for work, and I'm quite often the first or only vehicle there. 

I've not seen this law be abused, but I do get odd looks sometimes, though I think most people figure out why I do it. 

The law in IL doesn't just allow them to go through without stopping. That would be dangerous. 



> ...the law is for motorcyclists to safely proceed when no traffic is present...


How are the law makers unaware of the consequences? What are the consequences? Better traffic flow? Lines of cars not having to wait behind a bike until someone uses the crosswalk to make the lights change?


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Seems like a reasonable thing to me. Of course it would be better if authorities would install infrastructure that actually worked. I have turned left on a red light off of Woodroffe onto Baseline heading south more than once on a bicycle at 2 or 3 in the morning because the damn sensors don't work.

hboy43


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

ctardi said:


> We have a similar law in BC (or at least I've been told we have it...I use it occasionally). How is it a problem?


I used to ride a motorcycle too and I understand the situation with FC wheels, but the engine is still metal, so what I had to do is move up the
bike so that the engine mass is right above the sensor loop and it would trip the traffic light set on demand cycle. So unless he entire motorcycle is made of carbon fiber..possible... but highly unlikely with the production technology of most motorcycles, it shouldn't be a problem.



> I've not seen this law be abused, but I do get odd looks sometimes, though I think most people figure out why I do it.
> 
> The law in IL doesn't just allow them to go through without stopping. That would be dangerous.


Not general abuse, but it can lead to accidents where the conditions are rolling stop and proceed through the red light without really checking that there is a truck or car coming at high speed just past the riders blind spot,
or when motorists turning from a green , don't see the motorcycle (because they are NOT looking for a motorcycle and run into the bike proceeding into the intersection on the red light. In that case the insurance companies would deem that it's the motorcyclists fault for "running a red light".

I practiced SIPDE when I was riding and that kept me out of trouble.
SIPDE helps to indentify threats.

S = Scan the road in front of you (or when turning left (the most dangerous turn) the cross street).
I = Indentify any potential threats that could be a hazard to your health
P = try to predict (or anticipate) what the other driver is going to do
D = Decide on your prediction what the evasive maneuver is going to be for you (swerve or stop)
E = making that decision, Execute it. 



> How are the law makers unaware of the consequences? What are the consequences? Better traffic flow? Lines of cars not having to wait behind a bike until someone uses the crosswalk to make the lights change?


While better traffic flow is the intention, human nature what it is..mistakes can happen leading to injuries and deaths because experience or caution on everyone's part may not be present in every case...ie: the biker has been to a bar, has
a couple of beers on a hot day, proceeds up to a traffic light where the sensor is delayed, gets impatient without looking to ensure intersection is safe and proceeds into it without slowing down enough to check..the other motorist that hits him
would tell the cops that the biker simply ran the red light..even if the other motorist was the one that was careless.
Try to fight that one for compensation for injuries sustained in court!

that would be one but one scenario..there are many others than can result in severe injuries or death due to carelessness or impatience.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hboy43 said:


> Hi:
> 
> Seems like a reasonable thing to me. *Of course it would be better if authorities would install infrastructure that actually worked. * I have turned left on a red light off of Woodroffe onto Baseline heading south more than once on a bicycle at 2 or 3 in the morning because the damn sensors don't work.
> 
> hboy43


This would be a safer solution than the just allowing the traffic to proceed through on red light. In Ontario at least, motorcycles (even if they are two wheel vehicles in most cases) are still motor vehicles and they have
to obey all the traffic rules. We have enough idiots running red lights at the last second now, allowing motorcycles and then other vehicles to go through red lights just opens the flood gates for driver inattention. That just sets the precedence in the driver's mind that it's ok to go through any red light as long as there isn't a vehiole (or pedestrian) in the
intersection.(even at 2 am when it is most tempting). While it may be justified at 2am (as long as there is no
cop around observing to stop you, give you a ticket and a fine/demerit points for going through a red light, ..that precedence would also make the streets even more dangerous than they already are.


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