# Moderna or Pfizer?



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Anyone have an opinion on which is better or has less side effects, based on experience or research? I am about to get my first shot and don't know which to choose. 70 year old man with a pacemaker, high blood pressure, on dialysis for kidney failure.

In case you think I am "nuts" for not getting vaccinated, up until a few of months ago I was in better health and lived in the country 1/4 mile from my nearest neighbor. I'm retired, don't have to go anywhere, and go to town for groceries about once a week. And, the small town I go to had almost no Covid cases. So I figured my chances of catching anything were one in a million or less

Now things have changed. I moved to an apartment in town and go to the hospital 3 times a week for dialysis and my doctor recommends vaccination. I asked him about the blood clot issue, as I am already in danger of blood clots due to my heart condition, and he said that was the Johnson and Johnson which is no longer on the market.

It seems the offer a choice of Pfizer or Moderna, which would be my best choice?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Honestly, just go with what your doctor said is ok. If your Dr didn't point you towards either one, flip a coin between the two.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

The best one is the one that is on offer. When I got my first shot it was Astra Zeneca and I got Moderna for the next two. I wouldn't say there was much difference in the reaction I had to any of them -- a few aches and chills the next day.

Astra Zeneca is long gone now, and around here they are keeping the Pfizer for kids making Moderna the only choice for adults.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Anyone have an opinion on which is better or has less side effects, based on experience or research? I am about to get my first shot and don't know which to choose. 70 year old man with a pacemaker, high blood pressure, on dialysis for kidney failure.
> 
> In case you think I am "nuts" for not getting vaccinated, up until a few of months ago I was in better health and lived in the country 1/4 mile from my nearest neighbor. I'm retired, don't have to go anywhere, and go to town for groceries about once a week. And, the small town I go to had almost no Covid cases. So I figured my chances of catching anything were one in a million or less
> 
> ...


 ... either one is fine ... asap/pronto.

I'm no where near 70 and got 2 Pfizer shots last year - didn't even feel a prick, let alone a jab. No reaction at all.

This year - just 2 days ago, got Moderna since Pfizer is reserved for age 30 and below (and I'm no longer that young) here in Toronto. Again, didn't even feel the prick, unlike my jabby flu shot (yes, annually). Just felt abit of soreness in the arm the next day but right now it's disappearing.

So I'm FULLY vaccinated with 3 shots of Pfizer and Moderna, trying to avoid the hospital at all costs. 

PS: I don't own stocks in either Pfizer or Moderna.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Agree with others and I am fully vaccinated at 71 and have heart stents and take some meds for blood pressure, statins, and aspirin daily.

Symptoms weren't worth worrying about. A bit of a tender shoulder. The last dose I didn't even know the lady did it until she said 'all done".

It is no big deal compared to what you are already dealing with.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Pfizer


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## RICARDO (Nov 4, 2021)

Either / or. They are both mRNA vaccines and so would not impede each other.
I guess you don't buy lottery tickets either hoping for that one is a million win! lol


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

HKPRDU (pretty sure that's where you are?), is only giving Pfizer to < 30 years old at their clinics. They aren't giving you a choice. Some are getting shots at pharmacies.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

HKPRDU what is that the gearshift quadrant on a Russian tank? I live in Cobourg now.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Doesn't matter really, if you are over 30. Moderna has a higher mRNA load than Pfizer so could have higher side effects due to the strength of the immune response. But as you get older, the immune response decreases and maybe you actually need the higher mRNA load to stimulate the immune system. If your doctor hasn't recommended a particular brand, then what ever is available works.

Edit: Blood clot issues are a thing of any adenovirus-delivery vaccine, which means J&J, Astra-zeneca, and some of the non-approved ones (Sputnik-Russian, maybe one of the Chinese versions).


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

*Covid-19 pandemic: Frequent boosters can weaken immunity, says EU*
*Repeat booster doses every four months could eventually weaken the immune system and tire out people, it said








Covid-19 pandemic: Frequent boosters can weaken immunity, says EU


Repeat booster doses every four months could eventually weaken the immune system and tire out people, it said




www.business-standard.com




*


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## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

You do realize you will probably get Omicron.

1 shot at this stage will give you limited coverage after a couple of weeks.

You won't have better protection for many more weeks and months to come.

With your medical problems and age does it really matter if it's Pfizer or Moderna?

My advice would be to get either one 6 months ago.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Anyone have an opinion on which is better or has less side effects, based on experience or research?


Rusty, see my post here which has a comparison of the side effects. They aren't too different between Pfizer and Moderna. The only noteworthy side effect relates to "myocarditis" which is heart inflammation, and that's only being reported in younger people. At your age it should make no difference which vaccine you get

See this post









COVID-19 thread for 2022


I thought I would use this thread as a little 'blog' of what we are going through with Covid so far. Over the holidays, people all around us have been getting infected with covid. All of the ones we know, said it was from from a few saying is was mild cold, to most saying it was a really bad...




www.canadianmoneyforum.com


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Ukrainiandude said:


> *Covid-19 pandemic: Frequent boosters can weaken immunity, says EU*
> *Repeat booster doses every four months could eventually weaken the immune system and tire out people, it said*
> ...


 ... this is North America, specifically Canada and we're not following the EU's schedule so don't start your spin to obfuscate (again!)

Reminder: I'm still on your ignore list!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ... this is North America, specifically Canada and we're not following the EU's schedule


Right, I originally posted this article in the covid thread. Canada has been more restrained than Europe and Israel about using the boosters.

There isn't any indication that Canada plans to pump out boosters every 4 months, like the EU is warning about. For example I got my second shot in the summer and I still am not eligible to get my booster... and that's fine.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Ontario is opening 4th shots to immunocomprised any day now. LTC residents were already eligible. Is an age-based approach next? Wouldn’t bet against it.









Ontario to offer fourth COVID-19 vaccine doses to immunocompromised Ontarians


Immunocompromised Ontarians can book appointments for a fourth dose of a COVID-19 vaccine starting tomorrow.




toronto.ctvnews.ca


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

I had 2 shots of Moderna. I had blood clots in my lungs about 5 years ago, nothing happened with the vaccine. I take blood thinners.

The only side effect was is spot where the injection was done was sore a couple days, kind of like a bee sting.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I think the risk of COVID, particularly for someone interacting with people is way higher than the vaccine risk.
I'd grab whatever you can get ASAP.

Most people 60+ who got it were VERY sick, even double vaxxed.

To be fair, my risk tolerance for vaccines is high, I took AZ right before they pulled it off the market.


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## Machu Picchu (Dec 8, 2016)

My parents got Pfizer for their first two shots. However they were recommended to get Moderna for the 3rd because they are over 70. Pfizer maybe less "strong" when compared to Moderna. I would still get whatever you can get ASAP.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Machu Picchu said:


> My parents got Pfizer for their first two shots. However they were recommended to get Moderna for the 3rd because they are over 70. Pfizer maybe less "strong" when compared to Moderna. I would still get whatever you can get ASAP.


That's interesting. FWIW the Moderna booster is actually half strength of the first and second dose, and slightly less than Pfizer.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

bgc_fan said:


> That's interesting. FWIW the Moderna booster is actually half strength of the first and second dose, and slightly less than Pfizer.


Is this the case in all provinces?


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

I had Pfizer for first 2 doses and Moderna for 3rd dose. The side effects on the 3rd dose were so intense it knocked me down for the full day after. Extreme fatigue, muscle pain, unstoppable shivering in the evening of getting the shot (they call it "chills" in the list of side effects, that's putting it mildly!). Makes me want not to get another booster in the future.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Rus', I would suggest you follow the advice of your doctor(s) more so than that found on any internet forum...
But, you asked for opinions, so..... wife & I are both seniors, 69&65. Pharmacies here were mainly giving Moderna. The govt. clinics (with longer wait times for appts.) mainly had Pfizer. We went with Pfizer for all 3 jabs so far...& likely will stay with Pfizer for future boosters ....yuk, yuk....oh dear.....
No noticeable side effects. Both found ourselves a bit 'tired' the next day, but that could be psychosomatic🤨
note: when we got our booster(3rd shot), the clinics were offering both vaccines - seemed like most people were opting for Pfizer


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> HKPRDU what is that the gearshift quadrant on a Russian tank? I live in Cobourg now.


Wasn't me that posted it, but it's the local health unit for Cobourg. Stands for Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit.





COVID-19 Vaccination Clinics – Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit







www.hkpr.on.ca


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Is this the case in all provinces?


If they are using the same 3rd shot booster, then it should be. Pfizer or Moderna: Which COVID-19 booster shot should you get?

I made a mistake, for some reason I thought Moderna first/second shot was 50 mg, but is actually 100 mg, so even the half dose of Moderna is higher than Pfizer.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Why not have one of your health professionals recommend the type of vaccine, vaccine booster for you???

I suspect that their respective knowledge base and patient experience will be deeper and broader than any advice that you will find on a pubic forum.

Not to mention they have access to your complete, up to date medical history, treatment regimes, and current prescription usage.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ian said:


> Why not have one of your health professionals recommend the type of vaccine, vaccine booster for you???
> 
> I suspect that their respective knowledge base and patient experience will be deeper and broader than any advice that you will find on a pubic forum.
> 
> Not to mention they have access to your complete, up to date medical history, treatment regimes, and current prescription usage.


Nonsense ian

CMF is recommended by 9/10 health care professionals

It also replaces google for many senior citizens


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> If they are using the same 3rd shot booster, then it should be. Pfizer or Moderna: Which COVID-19 booster shot should you get?
> 
> I made a mistake, for some reason I thought Moderna first/second shot was 50 mg, but is actually 100 mg, so even the half dose of Moderna is higher than Pfizer.


 ... nope, the Moderna booster I got the other day was only 25mg. Family doctor's feedback on getting Moderna instead of Pfizer was simply "it's better".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Nonsense ian
> 
> CMF is recommended by 9/10 health care professionals
> 
> It also replaces google for many senior citizens


 ... so where do the youngsters get their health advice these days? Can't be from their oldies boomers family doctors?

Their peers or idol followers on Youtube, Instagram, TikTock, + FakeBook (added), etc? LMAO.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so where do the youngsters get their health advice these days? Can't be from their oldies boomers family doctors?
> 
> Their peers or idol followers on Youtube, Instagram, TikTock, etc? LMAO.


You mean it is not true about there being microchips in each covid shot or that somehow the 666 mark of the beast is imprinted within you when one gets the vaccine???

Must be fake news. A few of DW's more 'colourful' relatives are sticking with those original conspiracy theories.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Has anyone seen the Herman Cain awards?

Basically anti-vax conspiracy memes on facebook followed by asking for thoughts and prayers on facebook

Vast majority of Hermain Cain Award winners are boomers. At least the young anti-vaxxers are staying alive


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ No, don't know and don't care.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... nope, the Moderna booster I got the other day was only 25mg. Family doctor's feedback on getting Moderna instead of Pfizer was simply "it's better".


I think I see why I got confused. Supposedly Moderna booster volume is 0.25 mL vs 0.5 mL. https://www.fda.gov/media/144637/download, but when it comes to the amount of mRNA, it is 100 ug vs 50 ug. Moderna COVID booster FAQ: You can mix and match with Pfizer after 5 months


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

We were given the choice once we sat down for either Pfizer or Moderna. They told us that since our first two doses were Pfizer, if we want to travel with no possible hassles, go with the same. So we did.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I think I see why I got confused. Supposedly Moderna booster volume is 0.25 mL vs 0.5 mL. https://www.fda.gov/media/144637/download, but when it comes to the amount of mRNA, it is 100 ug vs 50 ug. Moderna COVID booster FAQ: You can mix and match with Pfizer after 5 months


 ... haven't read your links and I don't think you're the one who is confused. I think I am too (now) but I definitely saw a "25" something (ml or mg - has to be the former volume-wise) for the Moderna shot since it was "posted" at each jabbing station as to what one was getting. 

Just checked my vax cert - it just confirms which lot # of Moderna I received, not the amount.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I live in Cobourg now.


It is the public health unit where you live - Haliburton, Kawartha Lakes, Pineridge Health Unit. I would suggest you go to their website to get local credible information.
Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit – Your Health Partner for Life!
They run clinics in Cobourg - you have to sign up via the provincial system. You can also book at one of 7 pharmacies in Cobourg - scroll down to Cobourg at https://covid-19.ontario.ca/vaccine-locations


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

ian said:


> Why not have one of your health professionals recommend the type of vaccine, vaccine booster for you???
> 
> I suspect that their respective knowledge base and patient experience will be deeper and broader than any advice that you will find on a pubic forum.
> 
> Not to mention they have access to your complete, up to date medical history, treatment regimes, and current prescription usage.


Boy wouldn't that be great.Unfortunately my so called GP is not available and the doc at the dialysis clinic only comes around for a minute every 2 weeks. Last time around I asked all the questions I could think of, including what vaccine to get, and he was very much in favor of me being vaccinated, and it didn't matter what I got as the J&J that caused the blood clots was no longer used. Then turned his back and left without a goodbye the way they always do.


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## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

You are very vulnerable Rusty. Just get either one asap.

This one is on you. 

What else could the GP and Dialysis Doc have done?

It was your decision months ago to not step up.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It appears that you have had advice from you physician-it does not matter which vaccine.

Now...get the shot(s) before it is too late and before you regret not doing so.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> It appears that you have had advice from you physician-it does not matter which vaccine.
> 
> Now...get the shot(s) before it is too late and before you regret not doing so.


I agree @Rusty O'Toole it sounds like you should get either MRNA shot before it's too late.

If you can, wear a good (KN95 or CAN95) mask when you go in.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

bgc_fan said:


> That's interesting. FWIW the Moderna booster is actually half strength of the first and second dose, and slightly less than Pfizer.


Hmm ... I'll have to check with my friend who works at a LTC. IIRC, she said her Pfizer booster was also half strenght.


james4beach said:


> Is this the case in all provinces?


I expect so as US sources say their Moderna boosters are half dose as well.

Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

Thal81 said:


> I had Pfizer for first 2 doses and Moderna for 3rd dose. The side effects on the 3rd dose were so intense it knocked me down for the full day after. Extreme fatigue, muscle pain, unstoppable shivering in the evening of getting the shot (they call it "chills" in the list of side effects, that's putting it mildly!). Makes me want not to get another booster in the future.


Interesting ... first dose was AZ with a headache for about a week, a bit of tiredness but nothing severe. 

Second dose was Moderna with four hours of shivering (a blanket fixed it), fever and fatigue.

Third does was Moderna with some muscle stiffness and some pain when touching the injection site.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

m3s said:


> ... Vast majority of Hermain Cain Award winners are boomers. At least the young anti-vaxxers are staying alive.


I guess the definition of boomers has changed. I've seen articles of people aged 24, 30, 36 and 42 who fit the bill.


Cheers


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... nope, the Moderna booster I got the other day was only 25mg. Family doctor's feedback on getting Moderna instead of Pfizer was simply "it's better".


I thought that both jabs are the "same", equally effective and to get whichever is available first. Now I'm really confused


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Synergy said:


> I thought that both jabs are the "same", equally effective and to get whichever is available first. Now I'm really confused


 ... correct as that's what I think too so I got both of what were then only available to me. I think my family doc's feedback comment was just encouragement that I got the 3rd shot regardless.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> ... correct as that's what I think too so I got both of what were then only available to me. I think my family doc's feedback comment was just encouragement that I got the 3rd shot regardless.


That was a failed attempt at sarcasm!!!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eclectic21 said:


> I guess the definition of boomers has changed. I've seen articles of people aged 24, 30, 36 and 42 who fit the bill.


That's one of the "tricks" unethical debaters use, they argue a point by using a different definition of the word.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

They were handing out Moderna so that is what I got. No reaction at all which is good. Can go back for a second shot in 3 weeks.
Incidentally I had good reasons not to get the shot when it came out, then my circumstances changed, but before I could get vaxed, had some severe health problems that made it inadvisable. Only in the last week or so have been in half way decent shape.
I still support anyone's decision to get vaxed or not, for reasons of their own, Even though I am now among the "vaxed".


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Glad you were able to navigate your way to a decision @Rusty O'Toole. As mentioned upthread, you are going through much more difficult health treatments and I wish you the best of luck with those as well. Great to hear you did not experience any reaction. I hope others on the forum find this thread and make note of the last sentence of your post. It is indeed a very personal decision for each and everyone of us. Take care.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> They were handing out Moderna so that is what I got. No reaction at all which is good. Can go back for a second shot in 3 weeks.
> Incidentally I had good reasons not to get the shot when it came out, then my circumstances changed, but before I could get vaxed, had some severe health problems that made it inadvisable. Only in the last week or so have been in half way decent shape.
> I still support anyone's decision to get vaxed or not, for reasons of their own, Even though I am now among the "vaxed".


Remember to practice the safety precautions. Too many people think that vaccinations are 100% effective even though health professionals have repeated many times that nothing is 100% effective.

Wearing a seatbelt does not prevent collisions, but in a serious collision your chances of survival and reducing injuries are much better than not wearing a seat belt.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

More dialysis patients saw strong antibody response with Moderna vaccine: study


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eclectic21 said:


> Second dose was Moderna with four hours of shivering (a blanket fixed it), fever and fatigue.


The younger you go, the more intense these effects seem to be.

Most of my friends in their 30s (including me) were out of commission for at least 1 or 2 days after the second Moderna shot. It really hit us hard. What I commonly heard, and experienced myself, were intense stiffness almost to the point of not being able to move, for over 24 hours.

Some of my friends also had significant fevers, night sweats, barely could sleep. One guy was out of commission for well over 48 hours, and mine was nearly that long.

I also heard many people with very intense headaches, nausea (which I had myself). Anyway my point is that these Moderna shots seem to hit young people pretty damn hard.

I'm not too comfortable with the amount of intense inflammation occurring after these shots. I've had 2 Moderna shots but am holding off on additional ones for now. The benefit of a third shot *at my age* appears to be minimal, but that's my judgement call based on my overall health and lifestyle. I will absolutely get a booster some time this year, definitely before next winter.

In comparison, my parents (near age 70) felt nothing at all by the way. I have only heard reports like this from people in my age group.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

When the vaccine first came out there was not enough to go around if you recall. They were giving it to first responders (medics, ambulance and firemen) then doctors, nurses and hospital personnel then personal care workers like dentists then people who worked with the public like cashiers and store clerks.

I was retired, lived in the country a quarter mile from my nearest neighbor, and only went to town once or twice a week for groceries. The town was nearly free of covid cases so I figured my chance of catching anything were one in a million.

This changed when I moved to town for health reasons, began dialysis at the hospital 3 times a week, and by this time the vaccine was more available so I got it as soon as I was able.

I still don't think the vaccine is all it was cracked up to be but it is better than nothing. And I still support freedom of choice when it comes to vaccines and a lot of things.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I doubt there is anything age significant with Moderna second shots or boosters.

I think it more likely that by the time people get into their 70s they are used to daily pain somewhere in their body.

Gastro illness, arthritis, sore hips, neck and back problems.......are common problems as the body breaks down due to age.

I think it is more likely that young people haven't become accustomed to aches and pains of life yet.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

james4beach said:


> The younger you go, the more intense these effects seem to be.
> 
> Most of my friends in their 30s (including me) were out of commission for at least 1 or 2 days after the second Moderna shot. It really hit us hard. What I commonly heard, and experienced myself, were intense stiffness almost to the point of not being able to move, for over 24 hours ...
> 
> In comparison, my parents (near age 70) felt nothing at all by the way. I have only heard reports like this from people in my age group.


Interesting as so far, some I know in their '70's report the same as your Moderna in young people results but with Pfizer.

Cheers


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