# Wynne's cabinet shuffle.



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Wynne is doing a cabinet shuffle.

Dr. Eric Hoskins to replace Deb Matthews as health minister.

Deb Mathews is into Treasury board. The fox is now in the henhouse! She has absolutely no qualifications for Treasury Board..this is just another political plum appointment.

Matthews, who remains deputy premier, becomes chair of Treasury Board after almost five years at the helm of the government’s most challenging department.


> In 2006, Matthews earned her PhD in social demography at the University of Western Ontario. Her dissertation was entitled "Consequences of immigrant concentration in Canada, 2001–2051




Mitzie Hunter, MPP for Scarborough-Guildwood, will become associate finance minister responsible for the new Ontario Retirement Pension Plan.


> Prior to her election to the legislature, Hunter was CEO of the Greater Toronto CivicAction Alliance, and was previously CAO of Toronto Community Housing.
> Hunter and her family immigrated to Canada from Jamaica in 1975. She grew up in Scarborough, graduated from the University of Toronto (Scarborough Campus) with a BA, and completed her MBA from the Rotman School of Management.


http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2014/ch4.html


Del Duca, one of four newcomers in the 27-member cabinet, w*ill oversee the $15-billion transit investment in the Greater Toronto-Hamilton Area as well as the $14 billion in new transportation infrastructure in the rest of Ontario.*


> Prior to his election, Del Duca was director of public affairs for the Carpenters’ District Council of Ontario. Previously, he was an aide to Dalton McGuinty when he was leader of the opposition.


God's preserve us! I can see some mismanagement coming up in the next 4 years...he doesn't really have any qualifications...another political plum appointment by Wynne/



Duguid, the Scarborough Centre MPP, takes over a reconstituted Ministry of Economic Development, Employment, and Infrastructure. He had served briefly at a smaller economic development department and at the old ministry of energy and infrastructure.


> On January 18, 2010 he was appointed Minister of Energy and Infrastructure.
> 
> In the re-election and subsequent Cabinet shuffle, in October 2011, the Cabinet was dissolved, and the Ministry of Energy and Infrastructure was split into two Ministries.
> The resulting cabinet had a new Minister of Energy appointed.
> In the Cabinet, post election, on October 20, 2011, Brad Duguid was appointed Minister of Economic Development and Innovation.



Gaining new authority is Research and Innovation Minister Reza Moridi,* a nuclear scientist *who will also run Training, Colleges and Universities.


> After his election to the Ontario Parliament in 2007 and 2011, Moridi served as Parliamentary Assistant to the Minsters of Training, Colleges and Universities, Research and Innovation, respectively. Moridi currently sits on the Cabinet Committees on Legislation and Regulations, Northern Ontario and Jobs and the Economy. He has previously served on the Parliamentary Standing Committees on Public Accounts, General Government and Justice Policy.


No one was dumped from cabinet.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

So, um...business as usual?


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## Money We Have (Mar 20, 2014)

I work in media and when we saw this cabinet "shuffle" we were not surprised, it's all basically plum positions for loyal soldiers.

Was pretty surprised that Hunter who is a rookie MPP will get the associate finance minister. The Proposed Ontario Pension plan is destined to fail. I wrote a general FAQ about it here.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Money We Have said:


> I work in media and when we saw this cabinet "shuffle" we were not surprised, it's all basically plum positions for loyal soldiers.
> 
> The Proposed Ontario Pension plan is destined to fail. I wrote a general FAQ about it here.


Not surprised at all..the Province is too deep in debt and Wynne's plan to balance the budget over the next year and a half...well lets say...if you believe that..maybe you might be interested in....

I would be curious as to why you believe it will fail. I have a DB pension plan that is almost failed due to Nortel declaring bankruptcy..but I always thought that gov'ts
can owe in the hundreds of billions with a deficit and it shouldn't affect govt pension plans..unless the govt used the pension fund to pay down the deficit....

OR



> *Will it be fully funded?*
> Hard to say but most experts right now agree that the structure proposed is not good enough. One point that seems to have been lost during all this election coverage *is the fact that the Liberals plan to draw money from this pension fund to help pay for infrastructure and transit.* Obviously this is not a good idea and will *probably lead to a money shortfall somewhere.*





> It’s projected that we will be paid 15% of our income when we retire. This sounds like a defined benefit pension plan but the Liberals have avoided using that term.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm not opposed to an Ontario supplementary pension plan, but I have some serious concerns about how they plan to implement it.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Like turning it into a slush fund for Ontario government infrastructure initiatives, as opposed to a CPP-type fund with an obligation for the long term sustainability of the benefits?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Yup. It should be managed with a similar mandate as used by CPPIB. It should not be subject to the whims of the government of the day.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

It is not a defined benefit pension plan.
It is not even at par with CPP.
At best, it can be considered similar to the "shared risk" model implemented by New Brunswick in 2012.
At best.

However, the slap on the face of the tax-payers is that while the public sector "enjoys" outrageously generous defined benefit pension plans - fully indexed and guaranteed by the tax-payers - they have come up with this "poor man's DBP" for the rest of us riff-raffs.

The LPO has spit on the face of Ontario tax-payers, and everyone has taken this lying down.

If Ms. Wynne's and her unionized public sector lobby group's hearts bleeds so much for the non pensioned serfs, then give us the same pension plan that you have.
Then we can have a fair conversation.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I suspect the Ontario plan will be announced, but implementation will never take place.

Ontario wanted an enhancement of the CPP, but the current Federal Government didn't support any changes.

Ontario then decided to form their own pension plan to address the retirement income issue.

I believe the current Federal government has run it's course and will be replaced by a Liberal majority government next year.

The new government could very well enhance the CPP, which would render a separate Ontario Pension Plan unnecessary.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> I suspect the Ontario plan will be announced, but implementation will never take place.


Why do you feel that way Sags? Wynne is committed to starting up the ORPP if she wants to tap it for cheap loans for infrastructure building. 
The idea is quite clever actually..build up a fund with mandantory deductions from the wages of the "little people" and use that instead of Ontario gov't bonds to finance projects.
Since it will take a few years before some of the payers into the pension plan are old enough to collect on it..."iinvest the money collected in infrastructure projects in the meantime.
It could end up like another "rob Peter to pay Paul" scheme.

In the past we have seen a couple of those...one that comes to mind is the tire recycling tax implemented by Bob Rae after the Hagersville mountain of tires caught fire.
$5 from each tire sale, with the mountain of tires that are sold each year in Ontario, the tax was supposed to go towards finding ways of recycling them efficiently.
In the end it was just another cash grab by the Province, who just pocketed the money as general revenue. 
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2013/06/06/ontario_to_get_rid_of_eco_fees.html



> Tory MPP Michael Harris said the legislation is designed as much to “erase the misery of the last five years or so with the Liberals’ failed eco tax program.” Even so, he gave it guarded approval.





> In June 2005, Ontario Premier *Dalton McGuinty laid to rest any fears about a tax on new tires. "There'll be no tire tax," said the Premier at the time. "Everybody get that one? There will be no tire tax."*
> Using simple math, the new plan will take in an extra $34 million ($5.84 minus $3, times 12 million tires) from consumers. If you need $22 million of that to fund the stewardship, into which bureaucracy does the extra $12 million disappear?






> Ontario wanted an enhancement of the CPP, but the current Federal Government didn't support any changes.


Perhaps they see the ORPP as a flawed plan that could affect their CPP...drag it down more. 
Mitzi Hunter with her BA (MBA).... will... of course, set up a think tank of Ontario's finest minds on how to best manage this new cash cow.....mooo!:tears_of_joy:
Of course, when it comes time to milk it...well we all know about the Ontario Debt Retirement charge on our hydro bills..one of the existing cash cows. 



> I believe the current Federal government has run it's course and will be replaced by a Liberal majority government next year.


Yes and under True-dough...the issue of the day instead of pensions will be..are you "Pro-Choice" or "Pro-Life"?...there will be massed demonstrations on Parliament Hill for that,
and making Marijuana legal..... which will kill the Harper gov'ts "Medical marijuana growers" scheme. True-dough isn't too concerned about any ORPP. 



> The new government could very well enhance the CPP, which would render a separate Ontario Pension Plan unnecessary.


We will have to wait and see...any changes to the CPP will be a major and costly restructuring to the payors and the gov'ts of the day that have to payout.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Governments don't pay out CPP benefits. I have no idea what you're talking about carve.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

andrewf said:


> Governments don't pay out CPP benefits.


If not 'the Government' (via Human Resources and Social Development Canada, a branch of the Federal government), then who?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Just the way the stars have aligned...........Carverman...........following the bouncing ball..........

First the public consultations over the retirement income crisis. Then the recommendation of an enhanced CPP by many experts. The apparent initial support from Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, and the subsequent denial from the Harper government. It became pretty clear that Mr. Flaherty had a more favorable view of the CPP enhancement than Harper did.

Enter Ontario..........planning an election around the corner and a big election platform plank in the creation of the Ontario Pension Plan. 

From the start, Premiere Wynne used the plan as a wedge issue against Hudak.

After the election, the Wynne government can announce the creation of the Ontario Pension Plan as honoring a commitment during the election........but also hope that federal Liberals will include an enhanced CPP in their election platform next year.

The "idea" that Trudeau and Wynne would work smoothly together to create an enhanced CPP is powerful optics for the Liberals in Ontario, which is key to victory for either the Liberals or Conservatives.

Legalization of marijuana...........expansion of the CPP............protection of a woman's right to choose.........would be a powerful basis for an election platform, in the young, well educated, urban voter bases in Ontario.

On those issues, the Liberals are clearly aligning themselves with strong public opinion.

If Trudeau is elected..............Ontario could announce it was no longer necessary to move forward with an Ontario Pension Plan.

Everyone takes home a prize...........except of course the Conservatives.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

How does your True-dough plan to secure the buy-in from the other provinces opposed to CPP expansion?
Drug them with weed brownies, and get them high during the meeting, I suppose...


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> How does your True-dough plan to secure the buy-in from the other provinces opposed to CPP expansion?
> Drug them with weed brownies, and get them high during the meeting, I suppose...


Eloi Nirvana....get 'em while they're hot.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Actually, the Truduea Liberals position on legalizing marijuana is almost identical to that of the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs. Will they be offering brownies as well?

It is a far reach to compare the proposed Ontario Pension plan with public sector plans. For a start many public sector plans have an employee contribution rate of 12 percent of salary. That is over six times as much as the proposed ee contributions for the Ontario Plan. Would anyone really expect the benefits to be similar in any substantive way?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^^ + ^^ *Nemo2 & HaroldCrump *...LOL!! ... unconventional methods for unconventional times.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Governments don't pay out CPP benefits. I have no idea what you're talking about carve.


I'm talking about what the government calls ' benefits' Andrew. Yes, you can say that the CPP is not a benefit, but if you are disabled before age 65, then you can draw a disability benefit even
though you haven't paid in it to age 65. Sorry for the confusion.
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/services/pensions/cpp/combining.shtml


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^^^ + ^^ *Nemo2 & HaroldCrump *...LOL!! ... unconventional methods for unconventional times.


+1.... I find them very good "sparing partners" on CMF discussions. Keeps me here.:biggrin:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

fraser said:


> Actually, the Truduea Liberals position on legalizing marijuana is almost identical to that of the Canadian Association of *Police Chiefs*. Will they be offering brownies as well?


You mean the same police department that ran attack ads in favor of one political party during the recent elections?
*The same police chiefs that are the highest paid in North America?*

What makes you think that the Association for Police Chiefs have the public interest & tax-payer interest in mind?
There is no reason whatsoever to believe so.

Legalizing marijuana will reduce the "workload" (sic) for police officers even further.
There will (obviously) be no concomitant reduction in staffing levels.

It will free up more "officers" to write traffic tickets to drivers doing 105 on a 100 kph highway.

I don't think we should be taking public policy advice from union infested, self-interest driven police departments.



> For a start many public sector plans have an employee contribution rate of 12 percent of salary. That is over six times as much as the proposed ee contributions for the Ontario Plan. Would anyone really expect the benefits to be similar in any substantive way?


No, of course not.
But the features can be similar, no?
Such as the accrual rate. The base used for benefits etc.
However, all of those are moot points because this is not a defined benefit plan at all.

I do not see an iota of advantage of this ORPP.

If Wynne's heart truly bled for unpensioned private sector serfs, the best thing she can do is cut spending, reduce the deficit, and then cut taxes across the board (income taxes as well as retail taxes such as gas tax, the 8% PST share of the HST, health premium,etc.).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Just the way the stars have aligned...........Carverman...........following the bouncing ball..........
> 
> First the public consultations over the retirement income crisis. Then the recommendation of an enhanced CPP by many experts. The apparent initial support from Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, and the subsequent denial from the Harper government. It became pretty clear that Mr. Flaherty had a more favorable view of the CPP enhancement than Harper did.
> 
> ...


Hmm I'm following the bouncing ball but it flew off in some dark corner at this point. You are speculating of course that True-Dough will get in and that is not a given by any stretch of the imagination.

If Harper gets back in and there is nothing to prevent him from running a third term, unlike the US....the enhancement to the ORPP ain't gonna happen..sorry.



> If Trudeau is elected..............Ontario could announce it was no longer necessary to move forward with an Ontario Pension Plan.
> 
> Everyone takes home a prize...........except of course the Conservatives.


What prize are you suggesting..it's back to the same as before.
BTW..Christine Elliot had a tv interview in front of Queens Park. Her sign said "Elliot.ready to Lead". She is very businesslike and accustomed to speaking (because she is a lawyer and probably a very good one
I'm sure, I thinik that if she is successful, you will see some major changes in the next 4 years.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The first thing Christine Eliot would do is dump the old Conservative policies and rhetoric. She would move the PC party more to the centre of the political spectrum......away from the right wing ideology that satisfies the core supporters, but guarantees they won't win.

The "prize" the Liberals get to take home..........is a plank in an election platform that is favored by the voters..........but never has to be actually implemented.

It could go like this.......Trudeau adopts CPP expansion as a policy objective (nothwithstanding the difficulty of enacting the changes).......Trudeau wins the election.........Wynne supports the federal CPP expansion plans and shelves the Ontario Pension............Trudeau attempts (successfully or unsuccessfuly) to gain support from all Provinces for CPP changes. If he doesn't get it.............perhaps the CPP is expanded only for those Provinces in support.........or he abandons the plan.

In any event............both Ontario Liberals and Federal Liberals have a policy objective that is favored by the people. The Conservatives are forced to fight against it and are seen as the "anti-retirement income" party.

Win/win for the Liberals at both levels. Another loss for the Conservatives.

Of course, this is pure speculation as Trudeau hasn't won anything yet.

The polls are indicating that the Liberal lead is widening............and the Harper government seems less likely to form another government.

Especially with Quebec back to supporting the Liberals and Ontario re-electing a Liberal government. The Conservatives sent a couple of high ranking cabinet ministers into the election fray in Ontario.........to diss the Ontario Pension Plan.

The voters ignored them............and voted for the Liberals anyways.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Marijuana legalization is just one of Trudeau's future election policies.

The Liberals are stacking one favorable policy on top of another.........getting their election platform ready.

The Conservatives are being forced to run an election platform against policies that most Canadians support.

That is what Hudak did.............and we can see what the results were.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Christine Eliott would have made a much better leader in 2009, as more of a centrist red tory. Instead the party went with the tea party lite candidate in Hudak (at least not the full tea party option in Rob Hillier), and paid for it at the polls.

I think she could be a very credible contender. Elizabeth Witmer would also be a strong choice.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> The first thing Christine Eliot would do is dump the old Conservative policies and rhetoric. She would move the PC party more to the centre of the political spectrum......away from the right wing ideology that satisfies the core supporters, but guarantees they won't win.
> 
> The polls are indicating that the Liberal lead is widening............and the Harper government seems less likely to form another government.


Ya, and the polls are always right? (not). This is what the polls said when Iggy the outsider was trying to claim the title of 
King of Canada....the Harper machine just steamrolled over him and ran huge and expensive tv ads..something to the effect (if memory serves me) ..
"Michael Ignatieff is out of touch with Canada, he is been in the US too many years". It worked...once the Harper election machine ran those ads..Iggy was finished!



> Especially with Quebec back to supporting the Liberals and Ontario re-electing a Liberal government. The Conservatives sent a couple of high ranking cabinet ministers into the election fray in Ontario.........to diss the Ontario Pension Plan.
> 
> The voters ignored them............and voted for the Liberals anyways.


This election triggered unecessarily backfired on Horwath..she is done like dinner. I can see a fall convention coming up for the NDP to replace her..as she is a LOSER twice now...time to put somebody else in the drivers seat..even if it's a woman driver. ( Just a little sarcastic side joke here CMFers..I have nothing against women that are not my EX. ) :biggrin:


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