# Sizing ice tires, how does that work again?



## wheel (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm in the market for some ice tires for a 215/60R17 for the wagon. Turns out those are an odd size and they want like almost a grand for four ice tires. 

I understand there's some sort of resizing people do on winter tires, smaller or larger or something, that then actually makes it better for winter driving? I'm wondering if doing so might put me into a common tire size, give me better traction, and save me $400.

Anyone able to explain how that works?


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

google up "miata tire calculator", and you can compare other sizes/profiles.

Some go one size narrower for the winter, which would be a 205 in your case, and then adjust the aspect ratio to find a tire with same overall circumference.

There just aren't "common" sizes anymore on newer cars like yours when you have low profile 40 series. Big rims and skinny tires are great for Florida, but dumb for winter driving. However, dumb is in, because low profile tires make cars look like racing cars and that sells. 

On some cars, one can go down an inch in rim diameter, which would be 16 inches for your wagon, but that's not an option if the brake caliper is big and fits close to the original rim... would have to ask the dealer if that's possible on your vehicle.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

You want the smallest footprint on the ground in the winter - more weight per inch and cuts through slush better

It's usually a good idea to go with a inch smaller rim (16" in your case) because you can fit a narrower and higher profile tire with the same overall circumference using the calculator hysat mentioned

Although your tires are already 60 profile, which is not really low profile.. I run 45 profile summer and 55 winter. You could use a 205/70/16 with the same circumference but check with a mechanic for brake clearance and if 70 is not ridiculous (sounds like a truck tire to me) I would probably try to get a narrower steel 17" rim and 205/65/17 tires etc. I play around on tire rack to find cheaper/common sizes

People I tell scoff at used tires, but I care about having good tires and find it too easy to find good used winter tires for half price. Just inspect for even wear and get them balanced if they're not. Lots of people change vehicles and sell the winter tires separate


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

ditto on used deals... but learn how to read date codes. don't want 10 year old tires. The soft compounds for winter tires tend to harden after 4 or 5 years in my experience.


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

craigslist.com for cheap tires and rims. i understand that all rubber hardens after 5-6 yrs. since you are getting a deal used, buy name brand. Michelin also makes bf goodrich and uniroyal and are available at costco.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> You want the smallest footprint on the ground in the winter - more weight per inch and cuts through slush better
> ...


According to that theory, dune buggies & ATV's should have tiny little wagon wheels. We're talking snow & ice tires here. You want as much rubber in contact with the road as possible to gain traction.


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## furgy (Apr 20, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> According to that theory, dune buggies & ATV's should have tiny little wagon wheels. We're talking snow & ice tires here. You want as much rubber in contact with the road as possible to gain traction.


No , you've got it backwards , Mode3 is right , a thinner profile will cut thru snow and slush much better and translate into more weight per square inch , kind of like putting sandbags in your trunk.

Dune buggies need lots of surface area to avoid churning up the sand and sinking the wheels into it , so fatter tires are better.

There is also a process called "siping" tires , it is done on highway semi truck tires all the time , it is where the tires are sliced with a very fine knife to about 1/4 deep at a 45% all along the tread face , it allows the rubber to flex more in cold teperatures , it is fairly cheap to have done , and increases traction on ice , ask your local tire shop , the results are incredible.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Dune buggies and ATVs are for off road. You generally want a large surface for various reasons off roading such as flotation and more tread surface. With large enough tires, you can actually drive on top of snow off road with very low tire pressure. Off roading you don't want to sink into the sand/mud/snow

There are many factors though, such as the large treads on ATVs and dune buggies. It would be the same for the studs on winter tires however a narrower tire is still better imo. As an avid snowmobiler, I know that huge treads on a narrow track is the way to go unless I only want to float on powder at slow speeds. The performance and MPG drag of a wider track is much more obvious on snowmobiles. Snowmobiles are off road and want to float, cars do not want to float. The added treads/studs are negated by the weight/inch and less flotation

You generally want a small footprint for road driving especially on ice without studs to put more weight/square inch. In fact a smaller foot print tire will even stop you faster in the summer! Yes a bigger tire offers more treads but it is countered with less weight on the tread. There are many additional benefits to a smaller wheel such as not floating/hydroplaning on snow/water. For the same reason those in the know increase their tire pressure for road driving even above the suggested pressure - the downside being comfort and road noise

Low profile tires are mainly for show. Sadly the marketing department overrules the engineers nowadays. Smaller rims actually offer better acceleration, deceleration, MPG and comfort. It takes more torque to turn a larger heavier rim. You will notice the "street racers" increase their rim size but if you go to a track they are doing the opposite.


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## wheel (Jun 22, 2010)

Funny you should mention ATV's. We're going up north in about 2-3 weeks for our final ride of the year and I'm impatiently watching the forecast for snow. ATV tires do NOT do good in snow, even very small amounts. With the large tires they simply float on top of the snow. You can't get any traction or steer.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

In Chicoutimi they actually have winter trails for ATVs that you could get around with mud tires. Some of the racers put snow tires on and the utility's put tracks on. They can get around no problem but a Ski Doo with a good track will go anywhere and a lot faster in snow

In Iceland they drive trucks on top of snow with giant tires. They lower the air pressure down and just float. They drove to the North and South Poles and around Greenland, Iceland etc. They trucks have to be geared way down for off road and large tires - you lose power and speed with bigger tires


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