# Tariffs, How Much Will Prices Increase?



## canew90 (Jul 13, 2016)

With all the US items being taxed by tariffs, how long do you think it will take before prices begin increasing. What about when other countries do the same, or will we not be included by tariffs from the EU?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Why would we be subject to tariffs from the EU? There is no trade spat between us and the EU. 

The outcome should be obvious. Either prices of affected US products will increase by the amount of the tariff..... or the supplier and/or vendor will squeeze their margins to offset some of the tariff.

I think the more important thing is for Canadian consumers to simply not buy 'Made in US' products whether subject to tariffs or not, if they can fine a European or Asian alternative. That is our plan in our household. Example: Need a new laundry washer? Buy a Bosch right out of Germany (not a Bosch manufactured in the USA) or a Samsung made in Korea. Buy Mexican or Chilean produce, not the **** that comes out of CA or FL. 

Consumers do have some power AND can persuade their retailers to do likewise. We do a lot of our food shopping at Loblaw's Superstore. My plan today is to send an email to them suggesting they source more of their products ex-USA and include that on their pricing signage in their stores. We also plan to avoid a vacation in the USA (including Hawaii) this year. There are many other places to go.

Added: I'd suggest this is what the G6 should be focusing some of their time at Whistler on right now.....and over the next several months. A significant crimp in the US export market should have some effect on Congress.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I don't think Canada should be subject to any tariffs or whatever because of the similar conditions for regulations and worker rights as the US. Probably we have even stronger regulations, oversight and worker rights then the US does come to think of it.

My thinking is Canada is just thrown in to make the US position stronger in negotiations as the US goes after everyone and everything. Probably the US will stand down in the end with some changes being made and we all go back to a normal trading relationship with softwood lumber being thrown under the bus every couple of years.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Hey dog, when Canada imposes a 15% tariff on US goods, guess who pays the higher price?


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

A trade war is bad for everyone involved. But we can't sit by and take it when Trump slaps punitive tariffs on imports from Canada under the authority of a bogus "national security" claim. The Trudeau government has tried to target the countervailing duties on products from states that export a lot to Canada, in hopes they will influence Congress to make the Administration back down.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i assume trudeau is holding off for a bit to let trump get a message or two from his constituents that are going to be targeted and hope trump changes his mind

always a possibility with a man who has the attention span of a single cable news show

i heard on the radio today that in the usa tariffs are going to save 150K steel related jobs and lose 2M based on higher prices and the inability to export


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> Why would we be subject to tariffs from the EU? There is no trade spat between us and the EU.
> 
> The outcome should be obvious. Either prices of affected US products will increase by the amount of the tariff..... or the supplier and/or vendor will squeeze their margins to offset some of the tariff.
> 
> ...




there are some excellent insightful messages already in this thread but i singled out this one because it sets forth a plan of action that every canadian can implement. Namely, how to start searching for replacements for american products & raw materials. In effect, how to boycott the US of A.

cancelling US holiday plans are an obvious. Almost a redundant idea. Here in quebec i've been hearing for more than a year now from folks who in the past would normally hop south for a weekend at the drop of a hat. But over the past year they won't go. Last one to refuse was a young professional woman whose friends organized a casual jaunt to new jersey beaches. In 2016 she would have leaped into the excursion. In april 2018 she wouldn't go. And that was even before the tariffs.

there's also an echo in this post of something that's been mentioned in other threads. The reference to Whistler. How other nations are learning to cooperate better together in the mutual effort to survive in the face of permanent trump chaos.

we're OK with food because summer's coming & the trend is to buy local, fresher, greener, bio, better anyhow. Re california strawberries & washington state pears & apples next fall, i still don't know if these fall under the new canadian tariff regulations (i'd read that canada will be slapping tariffs on imported american hair spray though) (does that affect many cmffers?) (i'm positive we can endure an era of tousled coiffure if it means putting the kibosh on donald trump)

.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Canada and the EU are targeting red states for tariff impositions if they can to squeeze the economies in these states and thus put more pressure on GOP members of Congress. It is a pretty good tactic I think if it can be a material effect. No more Florida OJ but if I have too, I will buy CA OJ since CA is a blue state. Another reason not to buy a Harley either. I agree the food issue really won't hit until this Fall given locally grown product.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^


i like this further refinement of red state/blue state differentiation

great idea boycott red state product to the fullest extent possible


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I have been implementing Altared’s policies since Trump was elected and I’m going to be even more rigorous about it now.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

kcowan said:


> Hey dog, when Canada imposes a 15% tariff on US goods, guess who pays the higher price?


Of course we will pay higher prices if the trade war heats up. I am thinking it won't come to that other then softwood lumber which every administration has gone after.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

my fantasy is to see canada start secret negotiations with maybe the UK, Brazil and Mexico and maybe make a Trans Atlantic trade alliance ... let the Americans know that we are ready and willing to trade right around them ...

ar has a good idea too ... don’t buy their stuff


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fatcat said:


> my fantasy is to see canada start secret negotiations with maybe the UK, Brazil and Mexico and maybe make a Trans Atlantic trade alliance ... let the Americans know that we are ready and willing to trade right around them



^^ this is not a fantasy, it's what's happening in reality

one tiny sub-modification: it's not america that canada is setting up to trade around, it's only donald trump

this country will always walk arm-in-arm with the US
always has, always will
their current mistake of a president, too, will pass ...

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

rousing address from Peter Donolo in the globe saying that canada must walk boldly away from NAFTA.

donolo - long-time liberal party stalwart who served in the PMO under jean chretien - sees donald trump as a predator.




> The only negotiating stance that works against Donald Trump is the ability and willingness to walk away. Mr. Trump sniffs out weakness or desperation – in a friend or a foe – and he pounces without mercy. A defensive crouch is the wrong position, [Donolo says.]


.



> NAFTA – at least as we know it – is dead. Donald Trump just killed it. The reckless and crippling 25-per-cent tariff on steel and 10-per-cent tariff on aluminum that the U.S. President’s administration just used to bludgeon Canada and Mexico (not to mention the entire European Union) is the murder weapon.
> 
> For all those who have spent the last 20 months convincing themselves that Mr. Trump was just posing, that he could be reasoned with or charmed, this will come as a brutal awakening.




my takeaway is that Donolo's piece is a deliberate plant from the trudeau team. Donolo is the advance man with the first early news that canada's foreign policy vis-a-vis the US has profoundly changed. It's hardened to a degree never before seen during the entire past century.

the speed with which Justin Trudeau & Chrystia Freeland appeared to announce details of the new canadian counter tariffs showed that Plan B - which has now become Plan A - had been in the works for months. Trudeau's hard voice, his refusal to meet with the american vice-president, Freeland's clipped emphasis as she repeated the day & the very hour canada will start taxing US imports, were deliberate.

as donolo notes, the same moment is witnessing the launch of the federally-financed transMountain pipeline. It's the strongest possible statement that canada is exporting to asia, that canada & asia are open for business.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> rousing address from Peter Donolo in the globe saying that canada must walk boldly away from NAFTA.
> 
> donolo - long-time liberal party stalwart who served in the PMO under jean chretien - sees donald trump as a predator.
> 
> ...


sheesh, i do hope the above is true pie ... give spanky the finger and look elsewhere, that would wake him the @#$% up ... it would be painful at first but over the years would reap huge rewards to diversify our markets

this is why i am so hopped up by trans mountain ... we need it badly ... to get respect, if nothing else

good on trudeau for his response to trump this coming weekend when he apparently speaks back to him ... i may have to stop calling him big-hair... that will be sad day ... for me at least :hororr:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^ i don't see it so much as giving trump the finger as looking out at all times for canada's best interests, given the cards that are lying on the table.

no one could have laboured more mightily or more loyally on the NAFTA dossier than chrystia freeland. Night & day, she worked her mandate as negotiator-in-chief. Now it's all come to nothing, for no other reason than that a sinister sociopath in the oval office has flipped to what he wants to call "national security" or a "sunset clause."

the silver lining to the US tariffs is that they are serving as a giant wake-up call to the planet. Not a nation now that doesn't know what a predator the white house hotelkeeper really is. Il Duce.


cat isn't it interesting to see how the forum is acting in concert? (for once!)

left or right, progressive or conservative, west or east, english or french, many are saying Boycott red state products. Let's make the best of transMountain, It's our baby now. And most importantly of all, Where & How can we make New Friends.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> ^^ i don't see it so much as giving trump the finger as looking out at all times for canada's best interests, given the cards that are lying on the table.
> 
> no one could have laboured more mightily or more loyally on the NAFTA dossier than chrystia freeland. Night & day, she worked her mandate as negotiator-in-chief. Now it's all come to nothing, for no other reason than that a sinister sociopath in the oval office has flipped to what he wants to call "national security" or a "sunset clause."
> 
> ...


yes, i do hope canadians stick together as the going could get tough ... chrystia is doing a fine job ... i got to know her well on a weekly political podcast she used to do when she was working down in the states before she was elected ... smart girl ... pm material


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

fatcat said:


> yes, i do hope Canadians stick together as the going could get toughl


The U.S wants Canada to drop our supply management to allow more US dairy products. I say do it! ... Then spread the word to not buy any US dairy products.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> i like this further refinement of red state/blue state differentiation
> ...


LOL

whatta dumb idea

What exactly is that going to accomplish? Do you really think the average voter in the red states who voted for Trump will say, "Oh gee Canadians are boycotting our products so for that reason I'll vote for the Democrat candidate next time". Get real!

You people make me laugh.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Earl said:


> LOL
> 
> whatta dumb idea
> 
> ...


Considering that the average voter has no power, it doesn't matter who is elected in those states. The boycotts are meant for the targetted companies to engage lobbyists who then go after the representatives to make sure that US policies are in their favour, i.e. make sure that their export market is as wide as possible.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Earl said:


> LOL
> 
> whatta dumb idea
> 
> ...




as another poster has explained, targeting certain states to slap with countervailing duties is the official canadian response so far. Canada will want to align with other nations attempting to deal with donald trump. It's early days. Plenty of time to tinker with policy.

half the US of A - democrats - will also be attempting to deal with donald trump & his trumped-up trade war. Among the other half - republicans - a strong faction already supports local american producers who need to export.

when it comes to orange juice, you're right, no one can tell whether his litre of fresh-pressed came off the tree in florida or california.

but then there's the strong psychosocial effect. Donald trump is violating canadians' lives, the same way he's violating american lives by muckraking so promiscuously in US export manufacture, US export steel, US export agricultural product. If it helps canadians vent their outrage by quitting OJ cold turkey, or imbibing only california OJ if they can't kick the habit, they should do it.

for some time now there's been a certain school of analysts who say that trump has no politics, all he ever wants to do is create havoc, pandemonium & chaos, with himself at the epicentre. It's a school i intend to observe more closely from now on.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Earl said:


> LOL
> 
> whatta dumb idea
> 
> ...


canada is not alone in targeting its tariffs to red states ... china is doing it as is the european union and everyone else in the g6

spankys red state constituents are going to start to squeal and it won't be a laughing matter to them ...

its a really smart idea ....


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

You gotta laugh at the stupidity-the global elite give a TAX a special name-lets call it a "Tariff" and magically it is evil-it even violates human rights as some especially ignorant poster has commented-"Tariff" revenue goes into the same guv coffers that get your income tax revenue, your beloved carbon tax revenue, your fees for this that and everything else-the HST you love, blah blah blah.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Well that confirms a big kahuna of ignorance with regard to macroeconomics and global trade.
I'm not mentioning this to argue or belittle, simply pointing out the obvious. I suspect many people are clueless on the subject.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fatcat said:


> canada is not alone in targeting its tariffs to red states ... china is doing it as is the european union and everyone else in the g6
> 
> spankys red state constituents are going to start to squeal and it won't be a laughing matter to them ...
> 
> its a really smart idea ....




me i think there's a very slight difference between red state boycott & heavy export state boycott though

red state boycott is easy to understand, every nation affected by trump's new trade war can do it

but export state boycott means each nation that imports from the US will apply new high tariffs to the products they import in greatest quantity. IE if canadian imports from US include high percentage of steel & dairy then canada will tax those products in order to apply pressure to producing states such as michigan, illinois, indiana, ohio, pennsylvania, new york, wisconsin, vermont.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

canada's minister of finance Bill Morneau said he met privately with his US counterpart Steve Mnuchkin the night before the G7 finance minister's meeting in whistler BC.

morneau said he discussed canada's new retaliatory counter tariffs with mnuchkin. Canada won't impose these until july 1st in order to allow the white house time to reconsider, morneau told mnuchkin.

asked by a reporter what was mnuchkin's response, morneau said he wouldn't comment but predicted this week's G7 leaders' meeting in quebec will be "lively."

an unnamed senior canadian official at the same whistler meeting said that the combined counter-tariff response of all 6 G7 partners plus the EU, will negate any argument that canada is too small to intimidate the US on its own.

in fact, said this official, trump appears to have made a tactical error in targeting so many countries all at the same time.

also in whistler, the french finance minister described the new trump trade tariffs as "an attack."


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/...iffs-trump_a_23449120/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Well that confirms a big kahuna of ignorance with regard to macroeconomics and global trade.
> I'm not mentioning this to argue or belittle, simply pointing out the obvious. I suspect many people are clueless on the subject.


I know exactly what your authority figures have told you-believe me it isn't a secret.


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

humble_pie said:


> canada's minister of finance Bill Morneau said he met privately with his US counterpart Steve Mnuchkin the night before the G7 finance minister's meeting in whistler BC.
> 
> morneau said he discussed canada's new retaliatory counter tariffs with mnuchkin. Canada won't impose these until july 1st in order to allow the white house time to reconsider, morneau told mnuchkin.
> 
> ...


I am old enough to remember when all the "experts" guaranteed that a Donald Trump presidency would doom the US economy-not boom it as has happened.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Big Kahuna said:


> I am old enough to remember when all the "experts" guaranteed that a Donald Trump presidency would doom the US economy-not boom it as has happened.




_*tch your memory doesn't go back any earlier than 2016 ?*_


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

LOL... none of the economic boom being enjoyed by the US is due to the Trump presidency. The momentum was in play well before Trump was elected. Simply econ 101. There is always a multi-year lag before business investment decisions show results (positive or negative), albeit consumer responses are more immediate.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> ... in fact, said this official, trump appears to have made a tactical error in targeting so many countries all at the same time.


Yes, it appears Trump forgot the first in his 2-rule playbook: 1. divide and conquer, 2. take no prisoners.

WH economic adviser Larry Kudlow's comments would be humourous if they weren't serious. He tried to characterize it as "a family dispute".
Regarding Trudeau's response and comments, Kudlow said "I think he is overreacting"... that steel and aluminum tariffs on U.S. allies “may go on for a while” or “they may not,” because the matter is subject to negotiation.... and noted that "the United States still would welcome good-faith negotiations"... “and that’s why I regard this as more of a family quarrel. This is a trade dispute, if you will. It can be solved if people work together,” Kudlow said. “To say that it is an attack on Canada is not right.” :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKCN1IZ0L0-OCABS

His comments (good faith, work together) might make sense in the absence of Trump. 

Trump the bully, the 'I win you lose' president has absolutely no good will in the world. There is no world leader who respects or likes him. All those people who got him elected so they could get the red hat (make america great again) must be wondering if frankenstein has an 'off' switch.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Trump the bully, the 'I win you lose' president has absolutely no good will in the world. There is no world leader who respects or likes him. All those people who got him elected so they could get the red hat (make america great again) must be wondering if frankenstein has an 'off' switch.


I think only some who voted for Trump recognize their mistake. Much of his base does not have a clue, e.g. those people in the Rust Belt who believed Trump could bring back manufacturing, coal mining et al.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Yes, it appears Trump forgot the first in his 2-rule playbook: 1. divide and conquer, 2. take no prisoners.
> 
> WH economic adviser Larry Kudlow's comments would be humourous if they weren't serious. He tried to characterize it as "a family dispute".
> Regarding Trudeau's response and comments, Kudlow said "I think he is overreacting"... that steel and aluminum tariffs on U.S. allies “may go on for a while” or “they may not,” because the matter is subject to negotiation.... and noted that "the United States still would welcome good-faith negotiations"... “and that’s why I regard this as more of a family quarrel. This is a trade dispute, if you will. It can be solved if people work together,” Kudlow said. “To say that it is an attack on Canada is not right.” :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKCN1IZ0L0-OCABS
> ...




^^ all so true

kudlow flippity-flopping was a comedy alright

i was thinking the other day how donald trump is morphing into the most despised person the world has known since adolf hitler. I was thinking what a horrible legacy to leave his daughter ivanka & his other children

i mean they will want to carry on with the remnants of their hotel, fashion accessory & related businesses

but who will ever buy anything from the remnants of the trump dynasty?


.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

china just said that any tariffs against them will null and void any deals made in the meantime

spanky is an idiot, which everyone in the world knows full well, but now he is going to find out what his stupidity is going to cost the country

i do hope that the rest of the g7 start to route around the usa and soon ...


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

The sky is falling-hide under your bed-some new taxes will be imposed-and not good wholesome taxes like carbon taxes and income taxes-these are bad, scary taxes.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

G7 leaders plus the heads of the EU & the ECU will gather in la Malbaie quebec from june 8th through june 9th. Justin Trudeau will host the meeting as president of the G7.

what could be lovelier than a day in june in historic la Malbaie! 

once a fashionable summer watering hole for wealthy new yorkers & even wealthier bostonians named Murray Bay, the resort in early summer is a delight of manicured lawns, stately 19th century country manor houses, pine forests, rolling mountains dropping straight down to a blue st-lawrence river sparkling with whitecaps, salt-laden sea breezes, fragrant wild roses & beluga whales spouting offshore. 

the famous ile d'orleans strawberries won't be ready yet, but there'll be fat local asparagus, equally fat saguenay spring lambs, perhaps une crème brulée sirop d'érable, all washed down with memorable quebec artisanal wines.

couldn't have a more elegant setting to take on the awkward thug from the oval office.


.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i am most pleased by the performance of our pm with regards to trans-mountain and especially with regard to his performance today on meet the press (which have not seen but get his point loud and clear)

does he have big hair ? ... yes, he does ... but perhaps there is more happening under that adorable mop than i heretofore was aware of ... nice work T2

and yes pie, let us hope that the g7 minus 1 get their heads together and deliver a message to spanky that will be hard to ignore

ps. i suspect the pm's courage was stiffened by his realization that playing nice with spanky won't work and nafta is dragging along and there ain't much to lose

playing nice with spanky doesn't work because there is no actual spanky, only an endless series of petulant, confused, greedy, lying, ill-informed little spanky's each one new and different from the other and who can negotiate with something like that ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I say the matter gets settled in a "manly" fashion....by manly men in the manly sport of bare knuckles brawling, which apparently was just legalized in Wyoming....bless their little hearts.


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

sags said:


> I say the matter gets settled in a "manly" fashion....by manly men in the manly sport of bare knuckles brawling, which apparently was just legalized in Wyoming....bless their little hearts.


The gloves used in UFC/MMA are just to protect your hand-the guy you are hitting suffers the same damage whether bare knuckles or these gloves.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> I say the matter gets settled in a "manly" fashion....by manly men in the manly sport of bare knuckles brawling, which apparently was just legalized in Wyoming....bless their little hearts.



funny! but let's do a reality check

yesterday donald trump labelled trade with china "stupid trade"

it's a given that trump is going to try to destroy the G7. Extremists are already helping him by saying the G7 is toast.

how long will it be before trump sets out to destroy NATO?

at the end of the day, it's the US that has supreme nuclear strike capability, not any other country. And it's donald trump who holds the codes.

there's a limit to how far any country - even one that supposedly has sided brother-to-brother with washington ever since WW II - there's a limit to how far any country can step out of bounds.

this leaves the most reasonable avenue as the one canada has already taken. Work to influence US lawmakers to amend trump's destructive rampages as best they can. Foreign countries can use trade tariffs as a means to send smoke signals to lawmakers in vulnerable states.

.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

here we have a lovely article from the times about how the tariffs are even right now starting to bite deeply all over trumplandia ... 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/...-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

the tariffs are hitting mitch mcconnell's bourbon, scott walker's wisconsin brewers and steve king's iowa's soybean growers ... 

this will spread all across the land and begin to bite everywhere but mostly where trumpista's congregate who will start calling their congresspeople and bitching to high heaven ...

and there are now more jobs than people to fill them ... what are the hog plants, laundries and slaughterhouses going to do when they can't get anyone to work because all their hispanic labour has been i.c.e.d ?

sweet ...


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

There is very little comprehension of the resolve of Trump's base in this thread.

These are people who double down when wrong. They would beat you up with a club for suggesting their grandmother should receive some sort of subsidy for her chemotherapy.

Kahuna, please explain it to them.

To think these folks can be reasoned with is both endearing and ignorant. I'm envious on both counts.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

By the way, we used to go to the us multiple times per year. That stopped a few years ago.

I support the boycott, have for years. I support our pm and think he is doing a decent job of managing this lousy situation. I support looking for other trade to cut out the us. I embrace the response that is being discussed here.

Where I vary is that I don't believe it will have a significant impact on Trump's base. These people could die of starvation and they would still know they are right. Do not under estimate the resolve of an irrational cult being fed a narrow stream of lies.

We will be hurt badly but we must move on and away from the Banana Republican united states.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Tariffs on autos will push Canada into a recession.

In Ontario, 1 in 5 manufacturing jobs depends on the auto industry, which is one of the main economic GDP drivers in Canada.

Economic ripples will spread through the housing industry, oil industry and retailers to name a few sectors that would be negatively affected.

There isn't much we can do at this point beyond stand our ground. China should be the target of unequal trade............not Canada with whom the US has a trade surplus.

Trump doesn't bother with facts. Everything is a knee jerk reaction that can change at the drop of a hat. Trudeau is taking the right path but it may not be an easy one to follow.

This is a storm we are just going to have to ride out.


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Tariffs on autos will push Canada into a recession.
> 
> In Ontario, 1 in 5 manufacturing jobs depends on the auto industry, which is one of the main economic GDP drivers in Canada.
> 
> ...


China is the main beneficiary of the Paris Accord you love-now you are turning against Communist China? We must protect Communist China at all costs.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

TomB19 said:


> Where I vary is that I don't believe it will have a significant impact on Trump's base. These people could die of starvation and they would still know they are right. Do not under estimate the resolve of an irrational cult being fed a narrow stream of lies.


I believe that Trump did not win the 2016 election solely by the support of his base. Many 'undecideds' didn't want to take a chance with Hillary; didn't like her for one reason or another - despite the fact that she was uniquely qualified for the position given her resume. They decided to give Trump a chance.

I somehow doubt now, those same people would vote the same in the mid-terms, and in 2020 - unless the Dems find another controversial candidate.


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

Userkare said:


> I believe that Trump did not win the 2016 election solely by the support of his base. Many 'undecideds' didn't want to take a chance with Hillary; didn't like her for one reason or another - despite the fact that she was uniquely qualified for the position given her resume. They decided to give Trump a chance.
> 
> I somehow doubt now, those same people would vote the same in the mid-terms, and in 2020 - unless the Dems find another controversial candidate.


You can't be serious-Trump has had a great run so far-the only voters against Trump hate the guy with an irrational passion-overall consumer confidence is the highest since 2005-small business confidence highest since 1984.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Userkare said:


> I believe that Trump did not win the 2016 election solely by the support of his base. Many 'undecideds' didn't want to take a chance with Hillary; didn't like her for one reason or another - despite the fact that she was uniquely qualified for the position given her resume. They decided to give Trump a chance.
> 
> I somehow doubt now, those same people would vote the same in the mid-terms, and in 2020 - unless the Dems find another controversial candidate.




i'd be happy to stand corrected, but in the meantime it's my belief that there'll be no electoral college effect in the mid-terms.

at the time of the 2016 election, some analysts said that significant numbers of middle-class women voters in the surprise states that turned red - ie michigan, ohio, indiana, wisconsin - ie women voters who had previously voted the straight democratic ticket - suddenly turned to trump at the very last minute. 

it was said that the last-minute re-opening of doubt over hillary clinton's e-mails by the FBI plus the fact that clinton had not campaigned sufficiently in those states were the negatives that pushed the electoral college vote into trumpland, although clinton won the popular vote.

i for one don't see how those unique circumstances could be reproduced in the midterms. I'm expecting traditional democrat voters to return to the fold.


.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Big Kahuna said:


> [US] overall consumer confidence is the highest since 2005-small business confidence highest since 1984.



in your dreams


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> i'd be happy to stand corrected, but in the meantime it's my belief that there'll be no electoral college effect in the mid-terms.


Well, that's a pretty safe bet, as there is no participation of the electoral college in the mid-term congressional elections.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Well the trade tiff is hitting Canadian consumer confidence at least for now.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ts-send-canadian-consumer-confidence-plunging


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Canada and the US have reached a deal to end the steel (25%) and aluminum (10%) tariffs, in 2 days.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tariff-steel-aluminum-deal-canada-trump-1.5140031
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/u-s-agrees-to-lift-steel-aluminum-tariffs-on-canada-mexico-1.1260638
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-wor...rneau-on-tariffs-and-nafta-s-future-1.1260805

Good job by Trudeau & team to put an end to this. They've negotiated both NAFTA and these nuisance issues pretty well, I think.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

You can't be serious. Any chimp could have gotten the tariffs removed. USMCA wasn't going anywhere otherwise.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Why not just title every thread with the heading "We hate Trump and everything is his fault"?

Our country is in a mess not because of Trump, but because people voted for an arrogant and incompetent socialist with a nice haircut.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I can't shake the feeling that Mexico did the heavy lifting on this one.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trudeau and his team waited calmly until Trump lost interest and then they swooped in and got a deal. It turned out to be a good strategy to exploit Trump's short attention span.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

kcowan said:


> I can't shake the feeling that Mexico did the heavy lifting on this one.


 I agree with you on this, but am sure the WH was told that Canada and Mexico were United on this.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> I agree with you on this, but am sure the WH was told that Canada and Mexico were United on this.


There is also the domestic angle. The tarrifs were never really popular, and one thing about Trump is that he changes his mind. He had enough people he respected tell him they needed to go, so he backed off.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree there is a growing ground swell in the US against the costs associated with tariffs especially when export markets dry up or when sticker shock shows at the cash register.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

I agree Trump got enough pressure from within his country to lift the tarrifs that made no sense to begin with. 

He also badly needs a win since none of his deals has closed successfully or easily as he claimed. China case in point. Nafta looks like relatively low hanging fruit once tarrifs were out of the way, congress notwithstading.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Canada and the US have reached a deal to end the steel (25%) and aluminum (10%) tariffs, in 2 days.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tariff-steel-aluminum-deal-canada-trump-1.5140031
> https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/u-s-agrees-to-lift-steel-aluminum-tariffs-on-canada-mexico-1.1260638
> ...


Good work by Trudeau?! Are you kidding me? He is blowing it with the US, do you not recall when he went double-talk on Trump within minutes of the G7 ending? Oh, that was a year ago. It has taken a year for that mistake to blow over and it has cost hundreds of millions in tarrifs and subsidies to keep our manufacturers afloat. Yeah, great job Trudeau. Thankfully his tail has been between his legs and it has blown over while he spends his time blowing up our trade relationship with China.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Myself, I'm not a fan of the Liberals, but just like the last time the US imposed tariffs on steel and aluminium, the Liberals responded with retaliatory tariffs aimed to hit Republicans in districts where it hurts. They have my full support.

This time, they appear to be ready to do the same after the US places tariffs on aluminium.






ltr


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

They have an interesting initial list.








Canada consulting on retaliatory tariffs, what's on the list?


The federal government is holding consultations on a long list of potential tariffs Canada may impose of American aluminum products in response to U.S. President Donald Trump’s 10-per-cent tariff on Canadian aluminum imports.



www.ctvnews.ca





I get that they are all aluminium products, but I don't see the rationale for targeting those particular products. I would have thought targeting Kentucky products, namely Mitch McConnell 's district would be ideal considering that the tariffs would benefit his Russian benefactors. 








Executive: Kentucky aluminum plant project still needs $500M


FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) — A company that promised a $1.7 billion aluminum plant in Appalachia still needs a $500 million cash infusion to do the job, the new CEO told Kentucky lawmakers Tuesday, following a corporate management shakeup...




apnews.com





The funny thing is that there is currently an aluminium shortage, so putting tariffs on Canadian aluminium is just ... well, not smart.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

bgc_fan said:


> The funny thing is that there is currently an aluminium shortage, so putting tariffs on Canadian aluminium is just ... well, not smart.


Not smart indeed. It makes no sense and everyone (with a brain) agrees.

Funny coincidence?, that the very Whirlpool washing machine plant where Trump announced the aluminum tariffs, it will be hit hard with new Canadian tariffs on imports of their products to Canada. F--k you USA. 

ltr


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> Funny coincidence?, that the very Whirlpool washing machine plant where Trump announced the aluminum tariffs, it will be hit hard with new Canadian tariffs on imports of their products to Canada. F--k you USA.


I get the feeling Trump heard that Whirlpool uses aluminium so thought it was the best place to announce it. The problem is that with tariffs it will cost more to produce the washing machines... normally you would make an announcement like this at an actual aluminium plant, but Trump being Trump.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> Not smart indeed. It makes no sense and everyone (with a brain) agrees.
> 
> Funny coincidence?, that the very Whirlpool washing machine plant where Trump announced the aluminum tariffs, it will be hit hard with new Canadian tariffs on imports of their products to Canada. *F--k you USA.*
> 
> ltr


 .. some loonie (soon) by the name of Mr. MAGA-NOT! is getting desperate down south and it ain't your average Yankee walking down the street.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

When push comes to shove America has no friends.
American's only have and enjoy "Acquaintances".
Just like Employers and the Hedge Fund Folks.

As the North American economy continues to crumble for the next 2 years at least, a leader must look strong and resolute.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

So much for the tariffs. Timing would suggest that Canadian retaliation would have hurt the US government seeing as they were dropped before Canada announced the counter-tariffs. More than likely, they would have targeted the swing States.









Canada celebrates U.S. abandoning of aluminum tariffs, drops plans to retaliate


The federal government is celebrating the United States' decision to lift its 10 per cent tariff on Canadian aluminum, with Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland calling the tariffs a mistake from the beginning, and 'good news' for aluminum workers on both sides of the border.



www.ctvnews.ca


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Good job by the Canadian government for taking a hard stand on the US tariffs.


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