# investing for grown up children



## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

We are in our late 50ies and figure it's time to start investing money for our kids .+ 3 . They are all grown up and on there own but struggle with $$$ and since we do pretty good at investing we opened another investing account with itrade and plan to start investing for them in dividend paying companies and also sell covered calls or sell naked puts . Giving the 3 of them the choice to take monthly income or irregular $$ to help them out . Since the accounting could get complicated i'm looking for help . I consider this like a family investment club and have to keep it fair for all 3 . Might just sit down and invent some kind of spreadsheet . Are any of you doing this for family members ? 

We live off our investments but the kids have no clue how,or what we do . We earn more than enough money for our humble needs . We are not fancy people and never will be . 

All comments are appreciated . Happy investing .


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The only fair way would be to open up three identical accounts and invest them all exactly the same. This way when one screws up their gift, it won't affect the rest. Yes, it costs more, but if you have people who don't understand investing, they are most likely going to eventually sell the seed corn...at least one, if not all of them.

If each has their own, then at least you don't have to try and be fair when one burns through more than their share...

Better idea would be to set up three in trust and don't even give them access until after you die...if they want money, they need to ask for it until then.


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

It's only going to be one account for the 3 of them . So they each start with a 33.3% share . I will make all the investing decisions and the only portion the kids can receive is the income i will generate by investing , the capitol will stay the same or increase if one of them decide to leave the generated income into the account to compound there income for future withdrawals . Hard to explain but i try . Thanks for your comment Just a Guy ..


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Why don't you gift them money towards there own registered accts(rsp or tfsa)assuming they have income(rsp)and have room(tfsa)
And teach them
If that is not something they want buy index funds for them
Sounds messy,3 of them,even messier if there are partners(common or marriage)they way you want to go about it just M.O
Be curious how much your talking about,the amt


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

50K is the amount we start with . Might decide to invest more if thing go good . They are the type that if i just gave them full control they would just buy the latest gadget or blow it on useless stuff . They know nothing about investing . I think it's our way to prove to them before it's too late ( when they reach our age and they are still broke ) that having a financial plan in life is a good thing , They are our kids and good kids and we tried raising them to embrace our prudent way to manage money but it didn't work . We will sit down with them and lay down the rules because we worked hard for this money . By the way none of it is done yet we are just in the planning stage . We find it hard to enjoy our financial success when our kids are barely making end meat . Maybe thats not the right way to go about it i don't know .


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I understand your idea, I'm just saying it'll break down when you start paying out...

What if one kid needs $5000, so you allocate the others have first dibs on the next $10,000. Except it's cut into the earning potential...or inflation decreases the value of the $5000... It'll never be fair...just lead to resentment.

I know, because I've seen it too many times...

The only way to keep it fair is to keep it separate. Even then, when one blows through their share, they'll see it as unfair if the others don't.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Teach them to fish. Don't fish for them.

Seriously, it's not rocket science. I believe this is an important life skill and that you are doing far more for them by teaching them to do it on their own. Otherwise how are they going to learn?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

just a guy has the right idea imho. If these are adult children who are mismanaging because they never learned to look after their finances, then a strong dose of parental control at this late stage is not likely to help, imho. Instead i can see plenty of opportunity for resentment to flourish, especially among the sons-in-law & the daughters-in-law.

options? puts? calls? these are the last thing to teach to unwilling beginners imho. The initial learning curve is steep & a draconian discipline needs to be in place throughout. The only people i would even dream of mentioning options to are those who have already demonstrated strong pro-active interest & are highly motivated to learn.

i think the topic of what to do about adult children who (we think) are mismanaging their financial lives is an excellent topic. But the way to approach is not to set up forced Sunday School at the Church of Big Poppa, who already insists at the get-go that he is going to control everything.

alas if i were a daughter-in-law or a son-in-law in these circumstances, i certainly wouldn't attend the Sunday School sessions. Even worse - sorry, not what you want to hear, but nevertheless true - i'd encourage my mate to rebel & to turn up his or her nose at all this sudden domineering behaviour coming from the parents-in-law!

as the parent of such adult children, my greatest concern would be to provide important benefits for the grandchildren very early in life, so as to protect them from any vicissitudes in their disorganized parents' lives. For example, i know grandparents who are happy to pay Montessori school tuition fees for their 2 small grandchildren instead of making any contributions to RESPs for these same kids. Because, say the grandparents - & i agree with them - the very early years of a child's life, from birth to something like age 10, are so crucially important.

actually in this case the parents are not disorganized & would be paying the Montessori tuitions anyhow. But i think it's a fine illustration of good inter-generational financial assistance, because everybody is pulling in the same direction. The grandkids benefit, the parents receive a lot of family psychological approval plus the helpful financial support, & the grandparents are busting with pride as they see how the little tots thrive.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I am not sure exactly what your goals are, is it to teach your kids financial responsibility and to develop a plan, or is it to help them and give them money now?

I think by just investing YOUR money, and doing ALL the work and then handing it over to the kids will not teach them a thing. They have watched you all their lives, and watching didn't seem to work. If your goal is for them to have it a little easier, then your plan will be fine.

I don't have this experience, but I did see my uncle try to help his kids this way. He invested money for them, set up a good foundation, and then and when he passed on it was handed to each of the kids. ALL 5 blew through what they each recieved,

I think you would be better off coming up with a plan that incent them to try and make it on their own, perhaps, they can make the investment decisions, or a at least be a part the process. Perhaps anything they make in investing, you will match, which is what they get spend or something like that. 

My parents tried to teach me to save as a teen but what ever I had saved up, they would match for my long term goal. Here you could do it based on performance of the investment. If they reinvest thei dividends and amounts then they will make more through your contribution, If they decide to spend the principle, that's it for them. Sort of like a adult marshmallow experiment.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

50k split 3 ways,is that even enough to make a impact?I am not trying to imply 50k is trivial but for it to 'generate' income or gains 3 ways were not talking about anything that would have a impact?
Monthly income split 3 ways?(it's a nice tidy amt to grow and invest for long term but to rely on it for income,i dunno about that???)
You might be asking a bit to much from that amount of capital.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

madelinot said:


> 50K is the amount we start with . Might decide to invest more if thing go good . They are the type that if i just gave them full control they would just buy the latest gadget or blow it on useless stuff . They know nothing about investing . I think it's our way to prove to them before it's too late ( when they reach our age and they are still broke ) that having a financial plan in life is a good thing , They are our kids and good kids and we tried raising them to embrace our prudent way to manage money but it didn't work . We will sit down with them and lay down the rules because we worked hard for this money . By the way none of it is done yet we are just in the planning stage . We find it hard to enjoy our financial success when our kids are barely making end meat . Maybe thats not the right way to go about it i don't know .



my heart goes out to you because you sound like very good people who are perplexed by the non-culture conduct of the next generation.

except that they are adults now & there's no way you can "teach" them anything. You say you will "sit them down and lay down the rules?" i say no way! not gonna happen!

the beds are made & everyone must lie in them for a while. This certainly does not mean that things will be dire, though. Often life has a way of sending wise gurus or just the right life experiences to our dear ones to teach them what they ought to have known in the first place. We - the families who are looking on anxiously & wringing our hands - need to have faith & hope.

i would let them go. They have to find their own path in life. Children *must* individuate from their parents in order to become healthy adults, but the sense i get from your posts is that you still have a longing to exert firm control over everything, as if your adult offspring were still 9-year-olds.

if the adult children want to learn about finances your way, let them come to you & ask on their own initiative. My guess is that they will seek elsewhere, it will be years before they come to you, though. The more you talk about "laying down the rules," the longer they will refrain from approaching, imho.

at all times, my first thought would be to protect the grandchildren. This is where your $50,000 could perhaps be best spent, making sure that the grandchildren have the best launch in life that ever could happen. I don't mean expensive clothes or toys, i mean good schools, unforgettable experiences at summer sports camps (these are expensive,) special medical/dental services if necessary, etc.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

^ very wise words, forget what I posted earlier. 

I hope I will have the wisdom to let go when I have to when my kids are grown and are not on the path that I have wished, but cannot control...


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

I think i am not explaining clearly what i was hoping to achieve here . This 50K will just give them hopefully between $ 50 and $ 100 a month so it's a help . By laying down the rules i just mean that they can't have there share of the 50K just the income it produces . We have a good relationship with them and IF they want to learn how i do this i will show them . 2 of them already said the would like to learn someday but will never be able to accumulate enough money to even start . They are in there late 20 ies and early 30 ies . So no i don't consider myself a control freak but just trying to help them . 

I consider my investing account like owning a business ( for me it is ) and i'm just trying to show my kids ( if they are interested ) what i do and very slowly pass on the business to my kids . All you comments are appreciated and the last thing i want to do is create a wall between us and our children or there spouse . We have a lot to think about . Good discussion so far . I'm new to this forum but there is some smart people here ..


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

@madelinot,

Your heart is in the right place, geez, good on you. Would your kids read a book on investing? A simple one, to get them started, interested?, learning the ropes per se.

I am about to giveaway at least one copy on my site about an upcoming book a friend of mine has written in the next few weeks. 

Just a thought...


On the subject of giving them money, yes, that is nice but absolutely "teach them to fish". I think another respected and very bright commenter wrote that. I didn't have this luxury when I was in my 20s from my parents, bless them, they just don't have lots of financial literacy. I needed to learn on my own. Still learning... 

I'm not saying you need to have "strings attached" to your financial help, but adults like children learn best by doing. A combination of learning, doing, falling down, getting back up, is what they need to do. 

While learning and making some mistakes along the way, get them to follow a few blogs, follow them on Twitter, Facebook, etc. They don't have to be my site, just any site to start the wheels turning. It happened for me many years ago and it could happen to them.

You can email me from my site for more ideas and if you don't, that's OK too.

Good luck!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

OK, I'm going to be the jerk here. Although I know you mean well, you're infantilizing your grown children and I believe will ultimately undermine their ability to take care of themselves.

As for your financial prowess, I don't believe over the long term you will do much better than a simple couch potato portfolio. Maybe you will but really is it worth the extra complexity PARTICULARLY under the circumstances? Absolutely not.

Teach them how to set up a couch potato portfolio. It's simple, effective and something they can INVEST IN THEMSELVES and actually save their own money rather than have their daddy taking care of them. Really, as a fellow parent I find what you're doing ultimately quite offensive. Actions such like these are what keep adults acting like children.

Sorry, I'm a father and I know this is a pretty insulting thing to say but at least in the regard of making your kids into responsible adults (at least financially speaking) you've failed. I'm also telling you that your strategy here to teach them is flawed and will put another parenting fail on your scorecard.

Seriously, if you really want to help your kids - get them to open TFSA's and put 50K/3 in each of them. Buy 4 index funds and let them watch it grow (or ideally have them commit to a savings plan (money taken off their paychecks right into their accounts). There. You're done. You've empowered your kids and given adults who should be able to stand on their own two feet a handout.

I'm calling bullshit here. I've seen too many parents who want to maintain control over their kids WELL past the age they should. They're adults now - quit treating them like children.


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

Thanks for your info " My own Advisor " i found your blog and will spend a good amount of time catching up on some reading you provide . The ultimate goal for our kids IS to teach them how to fish for sure . If we go aheads with this process i see it the same as an investment club and would like to learn how to calculate each kids portion if for example one says i don't need money this month or this year . Or if one decide they want to contribute into it to make the amount grow . Like i said they are good kids that all have jobs ( one is in college right now ) . I plan to buy blue chip shares with the 50k and also slow but easy sell a few naked puts to generate more income . Looking for input and also help doing the accounting for this . Because just like an investment club on a small scale 1 person could end up with a bigger share if they leave there portion in there ( entirely up to them ) Thanks again.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

madelinot .You need to watch to debt do us part princess series.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

but what if kids don't want to learn how to fish... I mean every kid has its own personality, so one kid might be into it, another one will not want to listen... I think to succeed in anything you need to have a desire or a bit of passion... so what I'm saying is, you can try to teach them, show them what you do, tell them how beneficial it is, etc but it will ultimately be up to them to accept this information.. and I disagree with none in the regard of making your kids into responsible adults, sometimes you just can't, no matter what you do/try and telling poster that he failed that's not true (there are million combinations to human thinking process, not that simple)...


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

blin10,

Maybe I was a bit harsh but I just see this controlling lack of empowering attitude from the OP which suggests to me that yes he's failed and simply continuing the behaviour that led to his failure won't fix things.

You know what they say: you get the kids you want and the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result every time.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

How exactly do you plan on teaching them about investments? Do you have a PowerPoint presentation with the fundamentals, and then go onto more advanced principles? Is there hands-on section where they do the research into companies that are good candidates for investing into and then they perform the trade themselves in the account? Do you have experience in adult learning?

Because if you just tell them: I'm setting aside $50K a month and each of you is getting $69/month from the dividends, how is that any different than an allowance? What is incenting them to get involved and actually learn about the process, other than sitting back and accepting the handout just as they've always done the whole of their lives?

I agree with some of the posters above, it's all about incentives. What skin do they have in the game otherwise? Contribution-matching. Dividend matching. Bonuses for researching and picking stocks with good PE ratios, dividend payout ratios, etc. Tie some sort of financial reward to them demonstrating that they understand the principles and are demonstrating it through their own actions in investing.

Your heart is in the right place, but your approach is all wrong. At this point, it's not about teaching somehow to fish, it's about opening their eyes to the benefits of fishing in the first place. Trying to teach them how to invest when there's no motivation will be an arduous, uphill battle for you.


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

I will not even try to change your mind on this subject none . I'm just hoping others will chime in with there imput . I agree 100% with blin10 comments . I am surprised by the turn this thread took about analysing the way we brought up our kids and no the till death do us part princess series does not apply here . We didn't spoil our children and i am not big poppa with all the control issues etc . Just parents with more than enough money to live on looking to give there kids a boost .


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## Chris L (Nov 16, 2011)

I'll take it an invest it. Forget your kids lol


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Yikes! Hopefully my husband and I won't have this problem although I agree with OP that it is difficult to enjoy your retirement when your kids are not doing well. Sigh. Don't worry OP, you are not alone.


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## Butters (Apr 20, 2012)

Encourage them all to start TFSA with questrade. 

Give them a list of 3 ETFs, say VCN, VUN, VEE or something similar (RCD/RUD/RID)
And tell them to stay close to
35% Canada
40% US
25% international

Must start with $1000 min investment. 
Add $50 bucks (or more) weekly to each 3 of their accounts $7,800 yearly cost. 

(questrade allows free ETF purchases and no fees for accounts that make at least 1 trade per quarter or $5000 min balance) 

the questrade app on the phone is super easy to purchase. And you can send money from your bank accounts. 

Let them buy the ETFs, they will learn about dollar cost averaging.

Like wise, you could also say any additional money they add you will top up for a max of $100 a month. 

Set up a fair and equal plan for all 3 and let it compound. 

You won't need to do much on your end. Set up the pay and check on them monthly to ensure they made at least 1 trade. 

They will be less inclined to withdraw $50 a month, but more likely to spend if you have it to them upfront. 

If you hand them a $2000 bill they will likely buy a new laptop. But if you set them up on a long painful growth and make that money in TFSA feel locked it, it will build up. And they will see the power of the growth.


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## canucked_up (Feb 23, 2014)

madelinot said:


> They are the type that if i just gave them full control they would just buy the latest gadget or blow it on useless stuff .


Seems to me this is the biggest problem. With your plan, will they not just have a little more every month for gadgets or useless stuff? They somehow need to learn the value of not trading the bait for magic beans and keeping it to catch fish. Sorry this doesn't address your question, but....

I see our latest soon to be Graduate and wonder how I can reinforce this too. Good luck.


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

Yes PIANO MOM that a big part of the problem . Glad we are not alone . It's hard to enjoy a retirement when you kids are not doing so well .They are not starving or anything and they all have good places to live . Might play with the original amount up but i might invest and only give them 1/2 of the income and reinvest the other 1/2 to show them the power of investing and compounding . Also gradually involve them in the investing decisions if they want to . My goal is not to make it look like a handout or an allowance but more to show them the path we chose and we do so well at this stage of our lives . If they chose to buy Laptops and gadgets it will be there choice but in the meantime the parents will be travelling and enjoying retirement . We are happy and don't consider the way we raised our kids as a fail . They are different than us and good at stuff than we have no clue how to do . Us we are good at investing and financial success .


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Good luck OP. Try not to worry so much about your kids (I know its hard to do) and focus on yourselves instead. You have worked hard for your good retirement. Enjoy it and let your kids make their own retirement. Who knows? They might make it after all


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The biggest incentive I had to learn investing was adversity.

I had a good income, my own company, I had lived mortgage free for a while but just upgraded to a bigger home, had some savings...

And then got injured and couldn't work for many years. Before that, I never really invested anything, I'd just gotten into real estate with one property...but I was smart enough to see the writing on the wall before it was too late.

I got more real estate while my credit was still good, I took some of my savings and bought some stocks and I lived very frugally for several years...it wasn't easy and there were many times I thought of cashing out of my investments...but without my adversity, I'd probably never have gotten into investing and developing passive income like I did. Had my inlaws bailed us out, I may still be broke today...

Sometimes, by helping, we don't help...


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Right on sheabutters. Your plan sounds like empowerment and not maintaining an ultimately destructive parenting style.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

you really didn't read entire thread.... read what he said that he ain't controlling anyone, anyway I don't care either way, not going to write back and forth trying to change your view



none said:


> blin10,
> 
> Maybe I was a bit harsh but I just see this controlling lack of empowering attitude from the OP which suggests to me that yes he's failed and simply continuing the behaviour that led to his failure won't fix things.
> 
> You know what they say: you get the kids you want and the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result every time.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Yeah,sheabutters has a good plan.
Never to late to start.
I don't think all is lost(your kids are still young enough)
The issue is(imo)because you say they all struggle(i am guessing keep on the positive side mth to mth because of bills/rent/mortgage/food/phone bills/list goes on)is going to be kind of hard to stick to your plan(the 60 a mth checks?)If they have bills amounting to several k a mth(we all know how expensive life is)it's kinda hard to accomplish anything.

Example"dad,it's tough,i got my 200 dollar phone bill and my 150 dollar utility bill this mth and my credit card balance is still clipping away at 21% interest on my 4.5 k balance due" but thank the god lord,your saying next yr by this time my dividend check could be 6 bucks higher?"your right dad i never knew how great compounding is"......That's the part that is going to be a tough sell.It's like pain by a thousands cuts(when i am guessing short term needs eclipse anything you could do in reality with what your working with by going with your plan.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

If it were me I would tell the kids if they save $50 a month you will match it for them ,they need to have some skin in the game rather than say I am going to save for you and help you out a bit each month.I have no problem you investing the 50k and forget about it for 10 years and watch it grow but the pulling out the monthly dividend for them to spend it add little value IMO.
I have a 22 year old and 11 year old and a long time ago we started saving for them and when the oldest got to age 18 she got her first bank card and could see her savings account and even had the authority to transfer from it for emergency,there is an invisible wall around that savings account and she has never once touched the money.It seems your adult children lack that discipline and no matter they do they may never be better ahead for it.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I think it's great that you have a great relationship with your kids, and you want to help. 

I do think that the way you are doing it is an allowance or a hand out. I am not judging as that is my observation. If you are giving them money without them having to do anything, and you accept all the downside with our principle, it is a gift, even if you only plan to give 1/2. If you want to give a gift, by all means do so, but don't think that they will learn much. 

If you want to teach them, then they really need to have some stake in the game. Right now, investing YOUR money, and making the investment decisions is NOT going to teach them anything. Of course they say they will want to learn, what is a kid supposed to say to their parent. In your scenario, it is in no way an investment club or a business. Part of learning to handle your money is, actually putting some of your OWN money in. It's always different with other people money. Quite honesty, if you want to be fair, since it's your money, you can make up whatever rules you want. You can say this is for long, and there are no withdrawals until the investment hits X... or whatever else you want.

I see a major problem is not that they don't have money to invest, therefore have not learned to invest. The problem I see is that they have learned how to SAVE. You can teach them how to invest all you want, but if they spend everything they make, they will never get ahead, and when you are gone, the money will eventually run out.

I would see incenting them to save as Marina mentions as a great start. Offer to match what ever money they put in. I would actually keep the accounts separate between them. They will learn better if they know their result are based on their own actions. You can have rules that you match whatever they save, and if you want them to reinvest instead of taking the money and buying toys, match whatever returns they reinvest. Or have it that cannot take out money until they hit a certain goal, and then it's only their portion. The key is teaching them to save. By allowing them to take out even half every month to spend, it doesn't delay gratification, and what is $50 in a month, NOTHING... however, $600 in a year plus returns, now they will see the real beauty of investing. The worst part of letting them take out ANY money to spend, is that you are essentially increasing their budget which they didn't earn, and setting them up for higher spending habit. 

If you want to gift the money, then gift it to the grandkids. A grandparent can do whatever they want when it comes to the money


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

I'd highly recommend having a read of a book called "The millionaire next door" it's a very interesting book about the tendencies of people who are millionaires. One of the big takeaways that I had from reading it was that kids that are given money tend to do worse than their cohorts who are not given money. This really lends credence to the teach a girl to fish saying... Anyway, reading your post it just seemed like it would be right up your alley. 

Change will come about for your children when it needs to and judging by their ages they have lots of time to find this money to invest in their own lives and it will be much more rewarding for them when they come to it on their own.

Good luck, and I sincerely hope you give it a read, I thought it was great.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Need to get the kids on board with Einsteins theory of investing. Those that understand compound interest make it. those that don't understand compound interest pay it. The 2 biggest expenses for the average person over their lifetime in the United States (Canada ?) are taxes & interest.


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

I get what a lot of posters are saying about the kids having " skin in the game " but what if they can't save i mean i know lots of people our age with $ 0 in the bank . Yes life is expensive . All that i learned about investing i learned on the internet over the last 16 years . We had some properties we sold about 12 years ago and invested the major part of the $$$ , made some mistakes , got worried in 2006 ( income trust sleepless nights ) and 2008 . Had about 40K saved when we started in 1998 . First thing i did was with a financial advisor at Dominion securities , she lost 1/2 our principal in 2 years , So when closed that and received my 20K check and opened my self directed investment account i said i can't do worst than her and i can't afford to loose any more . All this to say i understand about skin in the game . 

A lot of the post i read here i have the reaction than posters took it the wrong way or were all negatives because of tv shows or whatever . Still not decided what to do if anything but hopefully life will provide us with some sort of answers . One day i told my son if something happens to us all this will be yours ( meaning house , car , 3 other pieces of land , 4 wheelers etc ) He looked at me and said Dad no amount of money can replace you . We ARE lucky


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

madelinot said:


> One day i told my son if something happens to us all this will be yours ( meaning house , car , 3 other pieces of land , 4 wheelers etc )


 Killing the incentive is part of the problem. 
Sorta like the concept of Suzy Orman if your going to help your kids with school do not tell them give them a bonus after they have finished school, would also apply to inheritance.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

madelinot it's obvious that you want to do this & you have the best goodwill intentions in the world. Why don't you go ahead? 

there will be absolutely no harm, not one centime will be lost, or at least not very many, you will have a good opportunity to sample the kids' reactions, & they will have an opportunity to hear your thoughts in an organized presentation.

the vaccination might not *take* this time but one never knows what communications go on at a profound unconscious level.

you & your wife have obviously had good values & have persisted in a challenging field - finance - to a successful level. I for one believe that it is likely your adult children have internalized some of this, again at a profound unconscious level, many long years ago. When they were much younger, when they were growing up.

one offspring is in the 30s, youngest is still in college, you've mentioned? they say that adolescent rebellion carries on much longer these days, in fact they say that 30 is the new 18 & there are more ways than one to interpret that expression, not all of them favourable.

what i mean is that possibly some of your adult childrens' spendthrift behaviour is lingering rebellion against what they think they remember of their youth ... but this is likely to neutralize itself eventually & all will be well.

wishing you the best in this endeavour


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

Why don't you go ahead? Simple answer : because our kids mean more to us than all the money in the world and we just want to do the right thing .


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

banjopete said:


> I'd highly recommend having a read of a book called "The millionaire next door" it's a very interesting book about the tendencies of people who are millionaires. One of the big takeaways that I had from reading it was that kids that are given money tend to do worse than their cohorts who are not given money. This really lends credence to the teach a girl to fish saying... Anyway, reading your post it just seemed like it would be right up your alley.
> 
> Change will come about for your children when it needs to and judging by their ages they have lots of time to find this money to invest in their own lives and it will be much more rewarding for them when they come to it on their own.
> 
> Good luck, and I sincerely hope you give it a read, I thought it was great.


This is a great book. I second the recommendation, and do recall the authors' conclusions about subsidizing children's lifestyles being a negative to their success.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

Madelinot, have you considered investing inside of RESPs for the grand kids? Not sure if this applies to you, but this would be tax efficient, and more than likely start small. The growth of the RESPs may catch the interest of your children.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Just curious, have you even asked them if they are interested in learning to invest for themselves?

If you get a verbal "no", then you have to realize that it's yourself that's insisting on rolling the boulder uphill.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

madelinot said:


> i'm just trying to show my kids ( *if they are interested* ) what i do.....


You sound like a compassionate/caring parent.

Even if you think your children are not interested/not listening, don't give up & keep talking [without being too loquacious].  It never ceases to amaze me just how much my kid is/was paying attention [in general], when I had actually believed he had been silently laughing off/turning a deaf ear. They just store the knowledge and use it when they need it. 

I know you're not asking for lectures here, but IMO, the biggest help you can give your children for long-term, is guiding/motivating them to learn/develop a strategy/and for them to stay involved. The process is not as difficult as some believe, you just need to find that something that will provoke their interest [could be as simple as a book as mentioned upthread]. But most importantly is making them believe & *understand the eventual payoff* [visual examples I find helpful], like the magic of compounding, which is exponential at their age, and which you've shown to them as u said, but do they believe it?.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

madelinot said:


> I get what a lot of posters are saying about the kids having " skin in the game " but what if they can't save i mean i know lots of people our age with $ 0 in the bank . Yes life is expensive . All this to say i understand about skin in the game .
> 
> One day i told my son if something happens to us all this will be yours ( meaning house , car , 3 other pieces of land , 4 wheelers etc ) He looked at me and said Dad no amount of money can replace you . We ARE lucky


I think one of the problems is the word CANT. This is not the same as won't or can't because it requires some work. I have seldomly found anyone that CAN'T save $50. I would bet that if they posted their budgets here, there would lots of suggestions that would be made. Unless there is a disability or some extraordinary circumstance that all you kids CANT save money, it is more likely they haven't learned how or been incented properly. 

I would bet that if some told them they had to come up with $50 a month (with out incurring debt) to save their life or yours, they would find a way. I see this is where the focus really should be. SAVING an d learning to live below your means while putting something aside. So if something happens to you, and your kids get everything, there's a pretty good chance it will be all spent before they hit retirement. I know many adult children who have interested large Suzes of money 7 - 8 figures, and those who were spenders before were just bigger spenders and many blew through it within 5 to 10 years. 



madelinot said:


> Why don't you go ahead? Simple answer : because our kids mean more to us than all the money in the world and we just want to do the right thing .


as a parent, I can say that I echo your sentiments. My kids mean the world to me. , and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them. I have also know that sometimes the right thing is having them unhappy and struggle so they can grow and learn. I will always be here to guide them but I can't hand them everything because it hurts them more in the long term. My kids are young still, but it is really hard as their friends all come from very influential families. Watching my kids. It get the same things as their friends, not because can't afford it, but because they need to learn life is about choices.


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

madelinot said:


> ... what if they can't save i mean i know lots of people our age with $ 0 in the bank..


I don't buy this. Spend less than you earn and you are saving. That part's very simple, yes life can throw wrenches in the plan but at it's simplest element making your life more affordable is all you really need.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

things getting into the twilight zone here ... i'm talking to my rad friends in finance in this burg about starting a ripple if not a whole new social movement

we going pick up a few homeless hanging in downtown parks & endow em with an aggregate 50k

then by golly we'll _teach_ em

we going teach em about _lean startup_

_lean startup_ has already hit the White House
harvard business school
it'll change the face of downtown canada forever


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I love you humble pie


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> things getting into the twilight zone here ...


I think you meant to pm that to someone...


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

madelinot said:


> 50K is the amount we start with . Might decide to invest more if thing go good . They are the type that if i just gave them full control they would just buy the latest gadget or blow it on useless stuff . They know nothing about investing .


That looks like the crux of the problem. 

Maybe it's time to let them stand on their own two feet and prosper / fail? I agree with @donald. Give them the money and let them do what they please. Try and convince / help / guide as best you can. But ultimately they need to do it.

What happens in 20+ years when you're gone? Who will manage their money for them then? Plus, if they have access to the account (and if they are named on the account, they will have access), what stops them from taking the money out now?

Edit: I know your heart is in the right place, but sometimes it's gotta hurt to be effective.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

madelinot are your kids married ? If they are maybe that's the problem their mate might be bad with money. If one person is good with money & the other person is not good with money the person that is not good with money will most likely make both people poor.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> ... Even if you think your children are not interested/not listening, don't give up & keep talking [without being too loquacious].
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me just how much my kid is/was paying attention [in general], when I had actually believed he had been silently laughing off/turning a deaf ear. They just store the knowledge and use it when they need it...


+1 ... from what I have observed and experienced as a child, if it's repeated in a "non-lecturing" way, it is likely to be absorbed ... in addition to being seen as important.


Cheers


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

To answer the question 1 is happily married 1 separated , and 1 single . I kind of stopped looking at the discussion i started here because things are not as bad as portrayed here . I mean they do alright for themselves . Posters jump on every comment i made and took it to the extreme . We get it and are reconsidering our choices . Still think we had a good idea but failed to explain it correctly here ( reasons etc ) . I mean some posters gave us a fail as parents... imagine that .


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

No good deed goes unpunished.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Isn't it odd..........

Here I sit............a baby boomer...........with the full knowledge that most of my fellow baby boomers are totally screwed financially, despite their own parents imparting reams of knowledge and wisdom upon them that was gained quite literally from living through very tough times.............two world wars, a Great Depression and the big Midwest drought.

If my generation learned nothing from their own parent's struggles.........why do we expect so much more of the next generation ?

I say.........if they are interested talk to them about it. If they are not interested.........set it up so it runs automatically and they can access the money later for now.

Let it sink in for awhile............that thanks to your generosity, they actually have some money put away, that is making "more" money for them.

What would be the point of NOT setting something up now............and waiting to give it to them as an inheritance ?

Believe me that most..........if not all of the parents of adult children I know.......family included, have thrown up their hands in desperation and have a simple plan for their kids.

I have one sister.......whose grown daughter graduated with a degree in Business, has a great job with a huge multinational corporation earning $170,000 a year, and can't save a dime.

She has all the education and practical experience.............but could care less about her personal finances.

Just the way it is............


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

Thanks for your words of wisdom SAGS great example but get ready for comments like i received on your sister like if she spends less than she makes she is savings . I have an idea how my kids will react and witch one will take the monthly income and who will leave it longer to grow . I am hoping than if i start with 33.3 % each and after a while the parts are more 36 % , 32 % ,32% for example the other 2 will understand better the power of investing and compounding . They are interested in learning i'm sure of it.

We were there when they were sick up half the night , when they fell down and cut themselves , when they needed a drive ( had almost 500,000 km on that car ) or even worst when they wanted to learn how to drive , They never stop being your children . 

One of them said to us last year after we bought something expensive ' must be nice to have money' ,, well i want to show them how to start young , and invest and be financialy secure . We are hoping that they will see this and start there own self investing account and put aside some $$$ every paycheque . If they need advise from me i'll be here . We seen them being more and more responsible on other things like having there own kids etc so i think it will be easier than we think . Common sense is common sense ..


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

madelinot what are your kids definition of money ?


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

I am not sure lonewolf , took us 30 years of working to decide we had enough to retire . If we would have stayed with financial advisors we'd still be working and would have half the portfolio we have now .


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Some financial experts say they can tell if a person is going to be in debt or be financially independent by the way they view & talk about money. If someone views money as evil they will never be rich. I view money as a medium of exchange that represents life energy. This view was recommended in a book that studied the way people viewed money & had good results for those that used this view for becoming financially independent.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Some people even have ideas that if a person has a lot of money they are some how evil & wont even make it into a mystical place when they die.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Suzzy Orman always says when someone has a problem with money it is some other problem they are having in their life that is causing them to have money problems.


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

Good point . Since i was young i always like the challenge of making money . I like challenges of all kinds . Without challenges life would be boring . I'm from the generation that loves doing stuff for ourselves , gardening, yard work , car repair , projects , cutting firewood ,etc . I love money .


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## madelinot (Nov 22, 2014)

Just to update this subject . We have started investing for the kids and have earned about $ 1000 so far in option premiums . We plan to keep growing this investing account for 6 months or more . We have not told our kids about it yet . This is just a trial run to see how much we can make with the initial investment of $ 60,000 ( $ 20,000 each ) .


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## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

It'll be interesting for you either way it pans out madelinot. Your kids will benefit, and hopefully you get to pass on some of your knowledge about what made your life easier. Some of your kids will learn, some might not, but at least you gave it a shot and isn't that really all you can do in the end?


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