# The Ideal Retirement Haven You�ve Never Heard Of



## Sherlock

*The Ideal Retirement Haven You’ve Never Heard Of*



> Few places in the world meet all the criteria of an ideal retirement haven. Here’s one place that does that most of the world has never heard of: Hua Hin, Thailand.
> 
> New arrivals to Hua Hin appreciate the cleanliness of the area, the widespread use of English, the lack of corruption, and the low-cost, high standard of living, all of which make this a very attractive destination for retirees on a moderate budget. A couple could live a fully-appointed, rich, and interesting life here on a budget of as little as $1,100 per month.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs...e-ideal-retirement-haven-youve-never-heard-of


So all you need is a portfolio of about 250k that yields 5 or 6% and you can retire. If your networth is over 250k and you're still working, maybe it's time to reevaluate things?


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## brad

These "retirement paradises" always make me wonder, though. What if you get sick? They mention good hospitals in Hua Hin, but are you covered by provincial health insurance? If not, can you afford to pay out of pocket for treatment? My stepmother's chemotherapy bill after a lengthy battle with cancer was $90,000, fortunately all covered by insurance. Those chemicals can't be cheap even in Thailand. How easy is it to become a permanent resident or citizen of Thailand? Are there restrictions on how long you can stay, whether you can buy a house, etc.? It would be interesting to talk to some of these retirees after they've been there 10 years or more to see if life is really as rosy as they thought it would be.


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## spirit

One of our friends has a dream to retire to a gold course. My idea of this is close to this article
Bookmarks Toolbar
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/173227_100001768848057_1268073975_q.jpg


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## spirit

*Did not copy correctly*

Sorry guys, the article is not the one I wanted. Will see if I can find it somewhere else.


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## spirit

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303703004577474563368632088.html

Try this one


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## kcowan

Relocating to Thailand
Best to explore this forum before falling for any pitch by a realtor.


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## Four Pillars

spirit said:


> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303703004577474563368632088.html
> 
> Try this one


Wow - some major price drops.

The idea of a 'golf' community is nice, but the reality is that if a golfer is within a short drive of a course - that's likely good enough.


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## Sherlock

Personally I'd rather retire to South America than Asia. The same website has similar articles about Guatemala and Uruguay. Why stay in cold Canada when you could be lying on a beach somewhere warm?


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## Four Pillars

Sherlock said:


> Personally I'd rather retire to South America than Asia.


Why would you prefer South America to Asia?


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## Sherlock

Mainly because I can relate to Latin American culture better than to any Asian culture. And learning rudimentary Spanish would be a lot easier than learning any Asian language. It's also closer to Canada if I need to come back. Also, those Latin American women... va va va voom! Woof woof! *pant pant pant*


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## dubmac

I'm presently on Grand Cayman Island finishing a 1 week trip (thanks to some in-laws who have helped absorb the cost of accomodation). It's amazing - there are FOR SALE signs everywhere down here. Honestly - it seems like 1/2 the island homes and condos are for sale. I suspect that people from the US are selling, but it's just a suspicion. Maybe this place has somehting to offer retirement haven seekers???


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## indexxx

dubmac said:


> I'm presently on Grand Cayman Island finishing a 1 week trip (thanks to some in-laws who have helped absorb the cost of accomodation). It's amazing - there are FOR SALE signs everywhere down here. Honestly - it seems like 1/2 the island homes and condos are for sale. I suspect that people from the US are selling, but it's just a suspicion. Maybe this place has somehting to offer retirement haven seekers???


I lived in Cayman for five years. The reason so many homes are for sale is that the US economy has a massive impact on the Cayman economy- notice that the dual currency is CI and US dollars? When the economy tanked in 2008, the number of visitors to Cayman dropped by a MASSIVE percentage. I bartended in one of the busiest tourist restaurants on the waterfront in Georgetown, (Breezes by the Bay) and we were PACKED every day with like 5-9 full cruiseships in harbour. Now the place I worked does not even open at night, never opens the second floor, and has about 1/3 the staff and it's the same everywhere there. We eloped to Cayman a year and a half ago and I was astounded at the lack of people in the middle of high season compared to when I lived there. Also, many US citizens have condos on Cayman, so the first thing to go is often one's luxury getaway. It's not cheap to live or stay in Cayman, as I'm sure you've noticed. Ever since Hurricane Ivan in 2004, hurricane insurance alone is about $7,000 Canadian dollars per year, and food and gas and all consumer goods are shipped in- everything is about 2-4 times as expensive to buy as in a large city in North America. There are essentially two industries in Cayman- tourism (transient cruiseships and stay-over diving) and banking, and both took a huge hit in the past few years. So locals and expat residents alike are all hurting these days.

There are very strict regulations about who can live in Cayman- as a tax-free country, they need to protect themselves. Essentially, a work permit allows seven years, after which you must leave for a year but can return after that period. Cayman Status is not available to those with less than eight years of continuous residency, so us working stiffs can't apply- only if you have a "Key Person" clause in your immigration work which allows nine years of working residency, after which you can apply for status, requiring satisfaction of a 'point system' for things like community service, ownership of real estate or a business, and general good character (very religious island, this). It is certainly possible for wealthy persons to live in Cayman- you need $6,000,000 in the bank to be allowed year-round residency and a non-employed income of $150,000 (from investments, business income, etc) to live on Grand Cayman or half that to live on one of the sister islands, but you're not allowed to work. The only other way is to own a business, which by law requires 50% ownership by a local. so you'd need to be connected to people first, know that you can trust them without them suddenly pulling out their money for some reason, and also come up with a viable business in a saturated tourist economy with a currently devastated customer base.

But hey, immigration aside, in some ways Cayman is the wild west with few rules- and if you can put something together it's a fantastic spot. If you're interested, look up Kenneth Dart- he of the Dart Styrofoam coffee cups. He now owns 1% of the land in Cayman, as well as the dump, all the liquor stores, a whole whack of other stuff... and he built the beautiful new town and marina of Camana Bay out of his pocket. The whole tone, buildings, water and power infrastructure, etc.

And do yourself a favor- head to Seymour's Jerk on Shedden Road just behind downtown- it looks sketchy but it's not, and he makes the best chicken you'll ever taste in your life. It's an outdoor Jamaican barbecue place. Incredible. If you're on the East End, go to Miss Viveen's overlooking the Wreck of the Ten Sails- great local restaurant.

I'm jealous man... homesick for the Caribbean!


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## dubmac

indexxx said:


> I'm jealous man... homesick for the Caribbean!


Yes - I suspected as much - your analyses confirmed many of my suspicions. I have also been amazed at how many homes / properties STILL have not been repaired after hurricane IVAN since 2004. One large hotel just outside of Georgetown (along the 7 mile beach road) looks out over the ocean, a nice 5 storey hotel - totally vacant. Several homes appear fine, but closer examination reveals they are boarded up and vacant! We are doing some diving down here - the diving is simply wonderful! We have had a great time, but I can see that this island has and still is expereincing some real troubles from the US economy being down, and the effects of the hurricance. On Tuesday for example, the power went off (on the entire island) for almosty the entire day! Imagine trying the run a business! Apparently, the power comes from a huge diesel power generating plant. The water comes from reverse osmosis of sea water (a very energy demanding process) so the power bills are huge down here. The family whose condo we are in had a home repaired after the hurricane, but couldn't afford the 4K per month in insurnace costs after having filed a claim to repair the place - so they had to..you guessed it - sell it! Lovely temps - very warm, people are very nice, pleasant. Great place to visit and spend time with the kids diving and snorkeling - I'll be back.


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## indexxx

dubmac said:


> Yes - I suspected as much - your analyses confirmed many of my suspicions. I have also been amazed at how many homes / properties STILL have not been repaired after hurricane IVAN since 2004. One large hotel just outside of Georgetown (along the 7 mile beach road) looks out over the ocean, a nice 5 storey hotel - totally vacant. Several homes appear fine, but closer examination reveals they are boarded up and vacant! We are doing some diving down here - the diving is simply wonderful! We have had a great time, but I can see that this island has and still is expereincing some real troubles from the US economy being down, and the effects of the hurricance. On Tuesday for example, the power went off (on the entire island) for almosty the entire day! Imagine trying the run a business! Apparently, the power comes from a huge diesel power generating plant. The water comes from reverse osmosis of sea water (a very energy demanding process) so the power bills are huge down here. The family whose condo we are in had a home repaired after the hurricane, but couldn't afford the 4K per month in insurnace costs after having filed a claim to repair the place - so they had to..you guessed it - sell it! Lovely temps - very warm, people are very nice, pleasant. Great place to visit and spend time with the kids diving and snorkeling - I'll be back.


There are always power outages, even before the hurricane. It's one of the quirks you get used to. We would have 250 people in the restaurant and simply switch to paper plates and cups (dishwashers need power) and hand-written receipts while the kitchen cooked on propane. My house in West Bay was one of the last to get power after Ivan- I was on a generator for four months, enough to run my fridge, A/C, and one lamp. I lost the roof of my house. Yes, you are correct about how the power and water is supplied. Fuels gets shipped in to run the plants. Ridiculous hydro bills- like hundreds of dollars a month for a small condo. Yeah, most people are really great there, but there is some resentment and racism towards foreign workers. You'd have to live there to know about it. And a lot of the young people have been taken over by the gansta mindset from rap videos. No guns really, but lots of drugs and that arrogant attitude.

Ivan damaged over 85% of the buildings. I have shots of cars stacked four high in trees and entire neighbourhoods flattened and buried in sand- the road around East End was gone, washed away. Marshall law was declared and the British Army came in to quell looting. There was a curfew in force for a long time because there were no streetlights or alarms. Grocery stores and restaurants were giving food away because there was no refrigeration, and people were cooking on barbecues. But it was actually really interesting to be in the middle of the ocean for weeks with no power- absolute silence and no lights, so the sky was incredible at night. The locals blame the hurricane on the evil, godless expats who brought down the wrath of the lord with our decadent ways... no joking. When a gay cruiseship arrived there was a huge protest on the dock. 

But man, do I miss diving into the sea with my snorkel every day after work. And those warm, tax-free nights in January... Ya mon!!


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## dubmac

We went farther east yesterday & I drove the highway that passes thru the area with Wreck of the Ten Sails shops and restaurants. Even more places for sale there. Gorgeous area tho. Interesting that you refer to some of the locals as being somewhat fundamentalist and religious in their ways - I have been amazed at the number of churches on the island - often small, but very numerous. They have an interesting habit of putting their cemetaries on the coast - so you end up seeing many cemetaries on coasts with"gorgeous" ocean frontage. There are chickens everywhere- even downtown in parking lots etc. - odd.


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## indexxx

I really like East End, particularly Bodden Town and the ironshore coastline near Pedro's Castle. If you know where to look, there are a couple of small, very old above-ground cemeteries that supposedly contain the graves of pirates. I remember someone telling me that there are more churches per capita than any other country in the world- not surprising given the population of the country is about 52,000 (closer to 60,000 when I was there, many expats had to leave due to the economy). The Rum Point/Cayman Kai area is great too. I love the chickens- it's pretty funny.


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## chaudi

The older you get the less you want to travel, less energy and tolerant to change you have. More important to be medical facilities. Thailand may have good hospitals but how would you like to be in good hospital in completely different country, nobody speaks English. No thanks. The other thing is you have NO rights what so ever in these countries, you, your life, worth nada. You can disappear and nobody will even notice or care. Then food may or may not be what you expect. The climate may seem nice at first but see if your still singing the tune after a few years. Visa problems, most countries don't let you stay their indefinably, land rights. You don't have any. 
What wrong with retiring at the cottage?


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## kcowan

chaudi said:


> What wrong with retiring at the cottage?


Cold and snow. When you get older, you develop an intolerance for discomfort. So summers at the cottage and winter down south.


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## martinv

+1 (had to look this up first!)
The body loves it ( so does our car), summers North and Winters South.
Extreme heat or cold, snow and ice, not so much!


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## Jon_Snow

In due time (when my wife joins me in retirement) we are likely to be 5 months in the Baja and the rest the of the year in the BC gulf islands. You really couldn't pick two more dissimilar environments - but I love them both for their respective differences. 

I find that cold and rain hold lessening appeal for me as well - even at my advanced age of 40.


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## Square Root

kcowan said:


> Cold and snow. When you get older, you develop an intolerance for discomfort. So summers at the cottage and winter down south.


Yep. With time in the mountains as well.


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## Square Root

Jon_Snow said:


> In due time (when my wife joins me in retirement) we are likely to be 5 months in the Baja and the rest the of the year in the BC gulf islands. You really couldn't pick two more dissimilar environments - but I love them both for their respective differences.
> 
> I find that cold and rain hold lessening appeal for me as well - even at my advanced age of 40.


Interesting. This is what we like as well. Very different environments. So lake house in the summer, mountain house for skiing and mountain biking, Arizona house when it gets too cold, Toronto condo for urban experience. Change is fun.


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## Four Pillars

Square Root said:


> Interesting. This is what we like as well. Very different environments. So lake house in the summer, mountain house for skiing and mountain biking, Arizona house when it gets too cold, Toronto condo for urban experience. Change is fun.


What a piker. My plan is to have 12 retirement residences - one for each month of the season. :|


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## Eder

This is why we decided to buy a rather expensive but luxurious motorhome, just finished living waterfront on the fishing highway in BC, gradually moving to ocean front in Nova Scotia for a few months then on to our pre Christmas ocean front spot on Marathon Key before it gets too chilly...house on wheels has many advantages at times.


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## brocko

Thank you for the discussion on Cayman. I visited for the first time in the fall of 2011 and have booked again for this coming October for 2 weeks. Camana Bay is the most exciting development I have ever seen in the islands, even a hospital is planned all paid for by the developer. Nassau and Bermuda had been favorite destinations for me for many years but I now think this is just a great spot. I was there at the beginning of December and one evening we drove around the "really really rich" area and all the mansions had their holiday lights and decorations on display. It all tumbled back to earth for me when got back to the late Canadian fall weather but still nice Christmas lights here too!


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## indexxx

brocko said:


> Thank you for the discussion on Cayman. I visited for the first time in the fall of 2011 and have booked again for this coming October for 2 weeks. Camana Bay is the most exciting development I have ever seen in the islands, even a hospital is planned all paid for by the developer. Nassau and Bermuda had been favorite destinations for me for many years but I now think this is just a great spot. I was there at the beginning of December and one evening we drove around the "really really rich" area and all the mansions had their holiday lights and decorations on display. It all tumbled back to earth for me when got back to the late Canadian fall weather but still nice Christmas lights here too!


If you can use any tips or info please do not hesitate to ask. Have fun!


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## dubmac

I met a litigation lawyer on the plane when we left Cayman - he has been living down there for the past 6-8 yrs. He said the Caymanian gov't was applying a new 10% income tax to residents, but was skeptical on how the authorities would ever have the means/method to collect/supervise/enforce the tax.


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## indexxx

dubmac said:


> I met a litigation lawyer on the plane when we left Cayman - he has been living down there for the past 6-8 yrs. He said the Caymanian gov't was applying a new 10% income tax to residents, but was skeptical on how the authorities would ever have the means/method to collect/supervise/enforce the tax.


Really??? That's mind-blowing. The British Crown relieved Cayman of taxation in perpetuity. Not sure how that can be rescinded at the behest of the Cayman Leader of Government. It would need to come down from the Crown and mandated through the appointed Governor.


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## brocko

This tax I understand is applicable to non status residents only.


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## Addy

chaudi said:


> Thailand may have good hospitals but how would you like to be in good hospital in completely different country, nobody speaks English. No thanks. The other thing is you have NO rights what so ever in these countries, you, your life, worth nada. You can disappear and nobody will even notice or care. Then food may or may not be what you expect. The climate may seem nice at first but see if your still singing the tune after a few years. Visa problems, most countries don't let you stay their indefinably, land rights. You don't have any.
> What wrong with retiring at the cottage?


There's nothing wrong with retiring at the cottage if that's what you like. Your comments above clearly show your ignorance. I just finished watching an unscripted video where JC from retirecheap.asia went to see an ENT specialists at Sriphat Medical Center in Chiang Mai. It was impressive, very inexpensive, no waiting, and the price was $20 to see the specialist who spent a lot of time answering questions, explaining options, etc. And, the doctor, she spoke perfect English.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that you have no rights in "these countries". Have you ever lived in any of the countries you seem to know so much about? Have you lived in Thailand for example?


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## Four Pillars

Addy, there isn't much point in responding to an old thread. As for responding to good ol' Chaudi? Very little point in doing that either.


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## pwm

Get serious. Do you know what my wife would say if I told her: "You won't be seeing your children and grand children any more because we're moving to Thailand"? 

After she stopped laughing it would be: "Send me an email when you get there. I'm not going with you!"


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## fraser

We just got back from Thailand and plan to go back in January.

Would we consider it for a retirement home? No. Would we consider it for two or three months a year during the winter. Absolutely. The only downside for us is the plane trip. We plan to live in Canada but vacation in the winter. Thailand is on the list, as is Costa Rica and a few other locales.


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## m3s

Addy said:


> There's nothing wrong with retiring at the cottage if that's what you like. Your comments above clearly show your ignorance. I just finished watching an unscripted video where JC from retirecheap.asia went to see an ENT specialists at Sriphat Medical Center in Chiang Mai. It was impressive, very inexpensive, no waiting, and the price was $20 to see the specialist who spent a lot of time answering questions, explaining options, etc. And, the doctor, she spoke perfect English.


I've been to Chiang Mai and it's high on my list. Not only is it commonly listed as one of the top places to retire, it's also one of the best places for adventure/nature/exploring etc. It's nothing like what you know of southern Thailand, it attracts an entirely different crowd and the locals view/treat foreigner much differently. Much more laid back and the weather is better with less humidity/cool nights up in the mountains. Even the Thai say Chiang Mai is cheap! The problem, and it is a big one, is the traditional slash and burn agriculture that causes so much smoke every spring. Should be easy to fix, but it's not.


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## HaroldCrump

pwm said:


> Get serious. Do you know what my wife would say if I told her: "You won't be seeing your children and grand children any more because we're moving to Thailand"?
> After she stopped laughing it would be: "Send me an email when you get there. I'm not going with you!"


I am with pwm.
We are a long way from retirement, however, we don't see ourselves being 14 hr. flights away from the kids (and hopefully grandkids, some day).

Not that we want to be in their faces every weekend, but want to be within a reasonable distance.
Say, a few hrs. of driving or couple hrs. of flight.


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## kcowan

One of the reasons we chose PV is the that it is 15 minutes closer to Toronto than Vancouver by direct WestJet flight. Ironically, my Dad and Brother both died in July (2000 and 2009) so it has never been an issue yet. And I visit the grandkids in the summer when the weather is good. And the Westjet flight from Vancouver in longer than from PV.


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## fraser

We would not want to retire to Thailand, nor do we intend to buy any property. But we do plan on spending at least four to six weeks there next Jan-Feb as part of our winter travels. After that..who knows. There are many great places to spend part of the winter that we have not yet discovered.


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## avrex

Perhaps we can cross Thailand off of the list of places to retire.

i.e. Army declares martial law.


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## marina628

avrex said:


> Perhaps we can cross Thailand off of the list of places to retire.
> 
> i.e. Army declares martial law.


Sometimes these 'cheap places to retire' are cheap for a reason


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## fraser

We will not be retiring there.

But we still plan on going just prior to New Years and spending a month on the west coast...then down to Malaysia.


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## AltaRed

HaroldCrump said:


> I am with pwm.
> We are a long way from retirement, however, we don't see ourselves being 14 hr. flights away from the kids (and hopefully grandkids, some day).
> 
> Not that we want to be in their faces every weekend, but want to be within a reasonable distance.
> Say, a few hrs. of driving or couple hrs. of flight.


Nor us. When we retired, we chose to be about 8 hrs away by auto through the mountains, 1 hr away by air at reasonable fares with seat sales. That is far enough away to lead our own lives but close enough for a 3-4 day trip to see the kids and grandkids.

We will do the trip stuff, wintering 6-8 weeks away from Canada in one or two segments, and the odd summer vacation in northerly climes.


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## sags

I think we will stick around......maybe visit Vancouver and a few short US trips.

I have seen too many friends and co-workers make all kinds of plans and then something happens and they are tied up in complicated problems.

I don't like the cold winters........but I dislike unnecessary complications even more.


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## pwm

Now that we have seen a military coup and a curfew imposed, does Thailand still sound like an "ideal retirement haven"?


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## fraser

Actually it is not nearly as bad as you think or envisage. This has happened several times in the past. But, it could escalate in Bangkok.

We still expect to spend a good part of our winter travelling down their west coast. As long as things remain stable it might actually serve to lower some of the beachfront room rates! Would we buy property or move there permanently...no. But we feel the same way about many warmer retirement climates.


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## celishave

When people are contemplating these varied locations, are we talking about renting or buying? I couldn't imagine buying a property in another locale. What do you do with it when you are not there...then you get there and it will invariably require maintenance on your "vacation". Hell no. Plenty of super affordable places on airbnb and vrbo and you can change it up each and every year.


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## gibor365

celishave said:


> Plenty of super affordable places on airbnb and vrbo and you can change it up each and every year.


That what I was thinking about.... rent condo for long term 3-6 month per year during cold months (in order not to loose OHIP)... there are plenty of interesting places like South Spain, France, Croatia....even Ecuador or Columbia... for example, in Malaga/Cordoba/Cadiz area a lot of nice places in 200-300 euro / month area
http://www.thinkspain.com/spanishpr...ang=en&status=4&areasearch=&region=7&numpag=2


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## fraser

We are still looking-but not very hard. It won't be in the USA. We have one way tickets to Thailand/Malaysia for late Dec. Back when winter is over.


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## My Own Advisor

I was thinking Costa Rica or Panama for retirement, for my wife and I. I still figure we need $1 M portfolio churning out income to retire on, excluding paid off home and any government plans. Then, in one of those countries, it's doable I think.


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## fraser

Costa Rica is a place we very much liked. One month in a condo was great. Not certain that we want to spend months at a time there. Lots of expats from Canada and the US.


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## gibor365

From what I heard Costa Rica became too overvalued.... too expensive.... imho, Ecuador, Columbia, Panama are better choices in S. America....


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## celishave

fraser said:


> Costa Rica is a place we very much liked. One month in a condo was great. Not certain that we want to spend months at a time there. Lots of expats from Canada and the US.


Check out AirBNB or VRBO - tonnes of places for around $1000 per month and very nice. I can't imagine how one would come out ahead buying versus doing the short term rental thing. I'd love to see some numbers proving that buying is the way to go


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## fraser

We paid more rent than that but it was for a large condo for the month of Jan. It was a private deal and we had a good rate. We were in Costa Rica for six weeks (Pacific Coast) from New Years day-mid Feb 2013. We drove around quite a bit. Our impression was that real estate had tanked. We saw a number of partially complete/abandoned projects.

I spoke to our insurance agent last week and discovered that she has owned a 2 br condo in Tamarindo for ten years. I asked her about prices. She said that today she could sell her condo for about what she paid for it 10 years ago. Not good from my perspective. Negative real growth in asset value, condo fees, the risks associated with owning a condo, plus an asset that is often difficult to sell in down periods. And the property is only uselful for rental or use 5 months a year. 

We are always looking but so far our travel plans and the math do not seem to work out for vacation condo ownership. And quite frankly, the math here at home does not look financially appealing to us either! But we never know what is around the corner.


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## My Own Advisor

Nothing wrong with renting a place in Central or South America. No liability.

We were in Costa Rica for about 2 weeks a few years ago, loved it. Drove around lots. Like you, I noticed a number of incomplete RE projects when we were there. I suspect little has changed. Likely people investing in RE, thinking they will get rich off real estate and prices will always go up. People have been spoiled with RE in recent years, at least in Canada. It's certainly not the same everywhere else.

I have no desire to buy a place in a foreign land, too much risk. I'd rather have ample cash flow and travel wherever I want with that income, look for deals and long-term stays. That's just me.


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## Jon_Snow

Our family bought a place in Mexico in the 80's... the town was basically a sleepy fishing village frequented occasionally by rich Americans looking for the best Marlin fishing in the world. But my parents were pretty shrewd in that they anticipated the town could very well become the next major Mexican resort area - and that's precisely what happened in Los Cabos.

Buying a place has proved to be a wonderful boon to our entire family for the past 25 years. Really it is a second home for us, and handy to escape Canadian Winter. I'm right in the midst of planning a 1 to 2 month stay right now. :biggrin:


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## My Own Advisor

Great success story Jon, but I wonder how many people are as fortunate? I suspect your parents are an exception to any rule. I could be totally wrong though.


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## gibor365

btw, guys, how is driving in Costa Rica comparing to Canada or Europe? It's on my future trips list and just wondering.... 2 month ago came back from Grenada and would never rent a car there .... so dangerous, no signs, no lights....


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## fraser

Driving was fine for us during the six/seven weeks that we had a car. The drivers were fine. Roads were just ok...you had to watch for potholes. Some secondary roads around Aronnel were not great. Driving in San Jose was not a problem. Pan American highway is being upgraded a little.l


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## My Own Advisor

Driving in Costa Rica can be rough. As fraser said, the roads around Arenal are not great. Think potholes + some gravel roads + hilly with sharp turns and steep cliffs + construction + some blind corners and some single lanes. Not to mention, some locals drive fast.

The Pan American highway is decent but certainly nothing close to Canadian 400-series highways. 

The roads around the Santa Teresa coast are challenging, add in 100% gravel, more potholes and no signs


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## The ruined man

gibor said:


> That what I was thinking about.... rent condo for long term 3-6 month per year during cold months (in order not to loose OHIP)... there are plenty of interesting places like South Spain, France, Croatia....even Ecuador or Columbia... for example, in Malaga/Cordoba/Cadiz area a lot of nice places in 200-300 euro / month area
> http://www.thinkspain.com/spanishpr...ang=en&status=4&areasearch=&region=7&numpag=2


Gibor, both my parents are Spanish immigrants, my mother being from Cadiz. On occasion we have spent our vacations there. 
It´s a nice place to spend spring and autumn months, not too hot and the beaches are less packed. Lot´s of things to do and see, the food is great and the north of Spain is a nice change of scenery if you don´t mind driving 9-10 hours
Spain is still a bargain (even with their new 21% GST/PST) and now is the time to buy if you are inclined, but renting is probably the cheaper option if you are only going to be there X months of the year.


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## fraser

We stayed on Hermosa Beach for a week. It was wonderful. Main road was fine, others very so so. Plan to go back and drive down to Dominical. We are told the roads south of Hermosa can be poor. The roads were actually better than we thought they would be. Glad we had a rental....and that is another story. Lots of ripoffs on the insurance end. You need to understand the rules. In our case we had our insurance agent email details of our coverage directly to the rental agency.


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## gibor365

The ruined man said:


> Gibor, both my parents are Spanish immigrants, my mother being from Cadiz. On occasion we have spent our vacations there.
> It´s a nice place to spend spring and autumn months, not too hot and the beaches are less packed. Lot´s of things to do and see, the food is great and the north of Spain is a nice change of scenery if you don´t mind driving 9-10 hours
> Spain is still a bargain (even with their new 21% GST/PST) and now is the time to buy if you are inclined, but renting is probably the cheaper option if you are only going to be there X months of the year.


This is exactly why I'd like to go for long term vacation in Cadiz/Malaga/Cordoba area.... In winter months I think this is the best weather in Europe , something abot +15-16 C .... and you can go skiing to Sierra Nevada! You can also drive to Portugal ... Train system in Spain is probably the best in the world, so no need to drive for a very long disctance..... The problem that my wife is crazy for figure skating and don't think there are too many skating rinks in Southern Spain


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## The ruined man

gibor said:


> This is exactly why I'd like to go for long term vacation in Cadiz/Malaga/Cordoba area.... In winter months I think this is the best weather in Europe , something abot +15-16 C .... and you can go skiing to Sierra Nevada! You can also drive to Portugal ... Train system in Spain is probably the best in the world, so no need to drive for a very long disctance..... The problem that my wife is crazy for figure skating and don't think there are too many skating rinks in Southern Spain


That´s exactly why i enjoy going, apart from the free room and board 
Tell your wife that if gets antsy for figure skating, she can take a cheap flight to Northern Europe and be back the next day to take you for a walk on the beach.

My brother moved to Spain about 15 years ago and says he won´t come back to Canada. He bought a nice little house and a rental property that he lets out to the English when they come for their Golf vacations.


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## gibor365

The ruined man said:


> That´s exactly why i enjoy going, apart from the free room and board
> Tell your wife that if gets antsy for figure skating, she can take a cheap flight to Northern Europe and be back the next day to take you for a walk on the beach.
> 
> My brother moved to Spain about 15 years ago and says he won´t come back to Canada. He bought a nice little house and a rental property that he lets out to the English when they come for their Golf vacations.


Flights it's to messy  but on other hand if there are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Figure_Skating_Championships , there should be some rinks


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## Markusos

I am thinking of retiring in Cranbrook, BC. Golf in the summer and ski in the winter.


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## Markusos

Hi All,

First post (I keep trying for my first post).

I'm thinking of Crankbrook BC for retirement; golf in the summer and ski in the winter.


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## markus

I'm thinking of Cranbrook BC for retirement - golf in summer and ski in winter!

This is my first post - hi everyone!


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## Markusos

I'd like to retire in Cranbrook BC, and golf in the summer and ski in the winter.


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## gibor365

Markusos said:


> I'd like to retire in Cranbrook BC, and golf in the summer and ski in the winter.


Nice place  close also to nice parks like Glacier park... The problem that you goona stuck there...difficult to fly abroad


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## Plugging Along

Actually Fairmont open up a little regional airport, it's only an hour away from Cranbrook. There is a ton of golfing there and the winters have skiing, so great year round place. We are not too far from there.


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## Itchy54

Lots of nice BC towns/cities that offer both! I live in one but I am not a skier...I run away in the winter. As far as that goes I don't golf either but do hike. Hubby golfs and there are a lot of courses here. We have an airport with daily flights to Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton so getting to Mexico is easy.


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## gibor365

Itchy54 said:


> Lots of nice BC towns/cities that offer both! I live in one but I am not a skier...I run away in the winter. As far as that goes I don't golf either but do hike. Hubby golfs and there are a lot of courses here. We have an airport with daily flights to Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton so getting to Mexico is easy.


So far I don't care about golfing, but like mountains, rivers, waterfalls, hikes etc.... By travelling, I meant more Europe, S. America and Caribbean and it's a little complicated from those small towns... btw , itchy , in which town do you live? How are detached houses prices over there?

probably there are a lot of similar website: http://hotretirementspots.com/british_columbia.htm

Sounds interesting _Okanagan Country, extending into the United States as Okanogan Country. As of 2011, the region's population is approximately 341,818. The primary city is Kelowna. The region is known for its dry, sunny climate, dry landscapes and lakeshore communities and particular lifestyle.
_


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## Itchy54

Bummer, lost my post. We live in Kamloops, house prices are high but not as bad as kelowna I think. Hate the winters here, we get fog....it is grey a lot. Summers, spring and fall are stellar.


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## gibor365

Penticton, BC is sounds nice...a bit warmer weather and good location.. have you been there?


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## Jon_Snow

My retirement haven (and condo) just got smoked by a Category 3 hurricane... looks like I won't be going down there for a month in November as planned. Small potatoes compared to what my Mexican friends in Los Cabos are going through right now.

Perhaps in the Spring of 2015.


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## Daniel A.

It will be awhile for me as well Jon.

Just got an email from the storage place where I keep my car three minutes from the airport.

Considerable damage to cars stored there waiting for the photo's now.


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## indexxx

gibor said:


> Penticton, BC is sounds nice...a bit warmer weather and good location.. have you been there?


I love Penticton- and the whole Okanagan. I spend as many weekends there as possible, camping, hiking, swimming, and shooting photographs. And gorging on fresh fruit... The only thing about the Okanagan is that it's incredibly dead in the off-season, except Kelowna. But I keep thinking of ways to get out of Vancouver and live there at some point. There are lots of nice little towns in and around the valley- Keremeos, Summerland, Peachland, Oliver, Naramata, Okanagan Falls. It's just a gorgeous part of the world, one of my favourite places.


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## Homerhomer

Jon_Snow said:


> My retirement haven (and condo) just got smoked by a Category 3 hurricane... looks like I won't be going down there for a month in November as planned. Small potatoes compared to what my Mexican friends in Los Cabos are going through right now.
> 
> Perhaps in the Spring of 2015.


sorry to hear that, was thinking of you when I heard the news.


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## Mechanic

We are going to spend a bit of time on Van Isle again this winter. I really like it there, even though the weather gets a bit dreary, so much better than -30 to -40 and continuous snow shovelling. I can still get out and fish/golf/walk in moderate temps on the many nice days. Nice thing is I don't mind the 12hr drive to get back home and go see the kids and grandkids. Thought about going south but then it's tougher to make trips back, as we have a large dog and we like to have her with us.


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## steve41

How many places can you fish, golf, walk and downhill ski all in the same day? Very few.


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## My Own Advisor

My wife has been thinking about Saanich, BC.


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## Itchy54

saanich bc, really anywhere around Victoria, is lovely. The weather has to be the best in Canada, nice warm winters and significantly less precipitation than Vancouver or farther north island. I am trying to get hubby to manage a transfer there....just need more money for a house, a little pricey in the nicer areas. I grew up in the comox valley and loved it then but when we go back to visit the inlaws I find it a little moist for my liking, but that may just be because we live in a very arid area now. Maybe we could get used to the damper weather, at least it isn't so ugly in the winter.


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## Jon_Snow

Heh, I'm looking across the water toward the distant hills of Saanich right now. Sun is peeking out... beautiful. I could be in downtown Sidney (biggest town in Saanich) in about 25 minutes in a fast boat.


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## My Own Advisor

My wife likes the pic...thanks for sharing! Might be a great place for us at some point.


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## Jon_Snow

Do it! You are one of the handful of CMF'ers I'd love to sit down and have a beer or two with. If you guys moved out to the coast, this would make such a meeting considerably easier.


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## gibor365

indexxx said:


> I love Penticton- and the whole Okanagan. I spend as many weekends there as possible, camping, hiking, swimming, and shooting photographs. And gorging on fresh fruit... The only thing about the Okanagan is that it's incredibly dead in the off-season, except Kelowna. But I keep thinking of ways to get out of Vancouver and live there at some point. There are lots of nice little towns in and around the valley- Keremeos, Summerland, Peachland, Oliver, Naramata, Okanagan Falls. It's just a gorgeous part of the world, one of my favourite places.


 What do you mean dy dead? From what I see on the map, there are plenty of parks for summer, pleanty of skiing in winter... No crowds? but it's even better... Looks like this place is warmer that any other part of Canada with pleanty of recreational opportunities... I'm wondering how is real estate there comparing to GTA suburbs?


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## steve41

Strip Malls, milfoil and mosquitoes. No thanks.


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## indexxx

gibor said:


> What do you mean dy dead? From what I see on the map, there are plenty of parks for summer, pleanty of skiing in winter... No crowds? but it's even better... Looks like this place is warmer that any other part of Canada with pleanty of recreational opportunities... I'm wondering how is real estate there comparing to GTA suburbs?


I meant that depending on the type of business you are in, for many there is only a window of a few months a year to make any revenue. And outside of Kelowna there is little going on in any of the towns from October-April. Real estate is reasonable depending where you look- Kelowna is pricey. Osoyoos also.


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## indexxx

steve41 said:


> Strip Malls, milfoil and mosquitoes. No thanks.


Well, the thing about Penticton is that it is a great location with good amenities, right in the middle of the valley and quick to get to any other part. Decent real estate prices too. I've never been bothered by mosquitos in the Okanagan at all, (except at sunset in the Haynes Point Wetlands near Osoyoos) and I camp/hike all the time. The lakes are big- milfoil wouldn't keep me from living in a hot, dry, beautiful region surrounded by orchards. Agreed about strip malls- Penticton has a touch of industrial sprawl about it in some areas- I just don't bother with those parts. The beaches in and around Penticton are awesome- superb swimming. Hiking the Bluffs. Cycling the KVR up above Naramata. Photographing the unique desert flora and fauna. Amazing spots; but of course to each their own.


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## My Own Advisor

Kelowna is pricy...this is why we were looking at Saanich, at least my wife was.

We'll see, we're still ~8-10 years away from retirement, that would put us into our late-40s if so. Lots can change, need to keep savings rate up and Saanich prices down


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## kcowan

We are in Osoyoos at The Watermark. We were at Sunset in Kelowna before. Great place to visit. Very scenic. Wonderful vineyards and tastings. Great selection of restaurants.

As for a retirement location, we have no idea. Like any other place, you should rent for a few months before making a choice. Especially in the winter.


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## gibor365

My Own Advisor said:


> Kelowna is pricy...this is why we were looking at Saanich, at least my wife was.
> 
> We'll see, we're still ~8-10 years away from retirement, that would put us into our late-40s if so. Lots can change, need to keep savings rate up and Saanich prices down


I did a quick real estate search, looks like prices in Mississauga and Penticton are comparable... the worst scenario if prices in GTA crush and going up in Okanagan 

_I meant that depending on the type of business you are in_ this won't be important fou if we going to retire there  
_is little going on in any of the towns from October-April._ again, don't care too much about cultural life... but it's very nice that thre are many skiing resorts around... also for winter it's possible to drive to Seattle or even for couple of months to Cali...
One of the problems i forecast....for cold and nasty months I;d like to have long term vacations in South Europe, Central/South America or Carribean ... and it's not easy and expensive from this region


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## Itchy54

Interesting...my neighbour tried to sell his house here but could not (very overpriced) and so he rented it out and is renting a place on penticton, I will let you know of the outcome. I thought it strange he would go for the winter....trust me, the winters are cold and snowy. It is not much different here than the kelowna area BUT there is a threat of a large mine being developed very near the town boundaries here in kamloops. 
I love the scenery in kelowna and surrounding areas but I do not like the city itself, but I do not like big cities.

I would move to southern Vancouver island any day! I hate winter and do not ski, ugggggg. The darn ferry ride SUCKS, one major downfall, but there is an airport.

Waiting for a transfer for hubby....just maybe....and hope " the big one" does not happen in my lifetime...


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## gibor365

Itchy54 said:


> I would move to southern Vancouver island any day! I hate winter and do not ski, ugggggg. The darn ferry ride SUCKS, one major downfall, but there is an airport.
> 
> Waiting for a transfer for hubby....just maybe....and hope " the big one" does not happen in my lifetime...


Isn't real estate over there too expensive?


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## Itchy54

Yes, Victoria property is expensive, especially if you want a view. We would look in the cowichan area OR if the inlaws are still around we could go to the comox valley, a little wetter there but there is some family....Inlaws and my brother, but hubby would have to commute so I don't really like that idea.
I would be happy to really downsize to a condo as long as the fees we not too ugly, or we could rent.
A girl can dream....


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## gibor365

Just out of curiosity googled how much cost new detached house in Saanich, first hit... 3bedrooms, 1851 sq ft -> $484,900
very similar to houses proces in Mississauga


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## indexxx

gibor said:


> I did a quick real estate search, looks like prices in Mississauga and Penticton are comparable... the worst scenario if prices in GTA crush and going up in Okanagan
> 
> _I meant that depending on the type of business you are in_ this won't be important fou if we going to retire there
> _is little going on in any of the towns from October-April._ again, don't care too much about cultural life... but it's very nice that thre are many skiing resorts around... also for winter it's possible to drive to Seattle or even for couple of months to Cali...
> One of the problems i forecast....for cold and nasty months I;d like to have long term vacations in South Europe, Central/South America or Carribean ... and it's not easy and expensive from this region


Vancouver is about a 45 minute flight away, or a 4.5 hour drive. There are airports in Kelowna and Penticton. Easy to catch a cheap flight from the valley to Van and then onward.


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## My Own Advisor

I'm with Itchy, we will likely downsize and live in a 2-bed, 2-bath condo at some point. 

We'll see...the future is always cloudy!


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## fraser

Prior to moving to Alberta 13 years ago, we lived in Vancouver for 20 years.

We considered a retirement move to Vancouver Island but the taxes in BC and the increasing ferry costs put us off. Our tax situation will change next year but I still do not think that we would consider Vancouver Island. We like to be somewhere warmer and sunnier in the winter. Lots of 'spring, summer, fall places in Canada to choose from. Winter is the challenge for us.


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## gibor365

Yeap, cold and snowy winters are a big drawback of retirement in Kelowna or Penticton... The older I become, I hate winters more and more  Ideal would be location like in South Spain or San Diego where winters are warm and on the other hand couple of hours drive brings you to good ski resorts. 
indexxx, I know that there are airports Kelowna and Penticton, but still it's a hassle to change planes several times, also I think it should be pricey, I doubt that you can find flight like I found for my mom from Dublin to Cambridge, UK for $90 or so ...
MOA, I think you live in Oakville, and I doubt that house prices in Saanich is higher than in Oakville...


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## gibor365

fraser, don't know what income you are talking about, but in range of 50 to 100K, taxes in BC are same or lower than in AB
Some numbers
40K AB 8,301 BC 8,658 ON 8,188
60K AB 15,009 BC 14,945 ON 14,910
100K AB 28,293 BC 28,246 ON 29,596
175K AB 56,455 BC 60,341 ON 63,705


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## steve41

Uh...... No sales tax in AB. A big plus.


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## gibor365

steve41 said:


> Uh...... No sales tax in AB. A big plus.


True  as well as in Yukon, Nunavut and NT ... rewards for cold winters


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## fraser

We are very familiar with the combined income tax tables in B.C., Ontario, and Alberta.


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## gibor365

fraser said:


> We are very familiar with the combined income tax tables in B.C., Ontario, and Alberta.


In this case can you please explain your statement "We considered a retirement move to Vancouver Island but the taxes in BC and the increasing ferry costs put us off" ? Do I miss something?


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## fraser

As you move higher up on the taxable income scale the differences become more significant.


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## gibor365

fraser said:


> As you move higher up on the taxable income scale the differences become more significant.


Situation is a little strange as for 40K or 175K taxes in BC higher, but in the middle taxes in AB higher or same 
While we're working for us the best province from taxation would be AB, but in retirement - BC


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## liquidfinance

I'm only about halfway towards my journey for retirement but it would have to be southern Spain. Anywhere from Valencia to Gibraltar would be perfect. On the coast. Gorgeous country. Great food. Great roads. I close my eye and think of myself waking on a wonderful morning turning the key on the motorcycle and enjoying the glorious mountain roads that Spain has to offer. 

Ahhh. One day.


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## indexxx

liquidfinance said:


> I'm only about halfway towards my journey for retirement but it would have to be southern Spain. Anywhere from Valencia to Gibraltar would be perfect. On the coast. Gorgeous country. Great food. Great roads. I close my eye and think of myself waking on a wonderful morning turning the key on the motorcycle and enjoying the glorious mountain roads that Spain has to offer.
> 
> Ahhh. One day.


Pretty much anywhere in the Med or Adriatic for me!


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## My Own Advisor

liquidfinance said:


> I'm only about halfway towards my journey for retirement but it would have to be southern Spain. Ahhh. One day.


Spain is great. 

Same...hopefully...one day...


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## Mechanic

I had been told that corporate and personal taxes would be higher if I moved to BC. As far as not having to pay PST or healthcare premiums in Alberta goes, I have a feeling the writing is on the wall for those


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## fraser

Cannot speak to corporate taxes. Personal income tax depends on income. At higher income levels, 200k plus, Alberta is definately less. 

None of that pesky land transfer tax. No Medicare premiums to pay in Alberta. No sales tax. Wife is paying today in Alberta (just re-newed) what she paid in BC for ICBC auto insurance in 2001.

But, food is more expensive-most especially produce and the produce in the winter is not great. 

Much easier for high school students to get into post secondary institutions in Alberta-university and technical colleges like NAIT and SAIT.

If I had a young family and was living in Ontario or Bcc I would definately consider a move. Great place for children-lots of sports activities.


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## gibor365

Just read book of the best retirement cities within North America.... The highest ranking got Victoria, BC (that is not surprising), but number 2 rating got London, ON (that is really surprising :apathy


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## HaroldCrump

What, no mention of Kingston, ON?
It ranks top #1 or #2 in the Money Sense annual survey every year as top retirement destination.


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## gibor365

HaroldCrump said:


> What, no mention of Kingston, ON?
> It ranks top #1 or #2 in the Money Sense annual survey every year as top retirement destination.


I read book "Retire in style : 60 outstanding places across the USA and Canada " , it's not in front of me now, but Kingston was also ranked very high...top 5...
For me Victoria sounds more appealing because of the weather, ocean and mountains are not too far.... The biggest disadvantage - too far to travel to Europe...


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## Nemo2

HaroldCrump said:


> What, no mention of Kingston, ON?
> It ranks top #1 or #2 in the Money Sense annual survey every year as top retirement destination.


That's only because it's close to Belleville. :biggrin:


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## kcowan

Nemo2 said:


> That's only because it's close to Belleville. :biggrin:


Belleville is preferrable to Kingston in the winter. Those relentless winds off the lake are God awful.


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## Nemo2

kcowan said:


> Belleville is preferrable to Kingston in the winter. Those relentless winds off the lake are God awful.


And also...my wife's family doesn't live in Belleville.......kidding...:biggrin:


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## naysmitj

gibor said:


> I read book "Retire in style : 60 outstanding places across the USA and Canada " , it's not in front of me now, but Kingston was also ranked very high...top 5...
> For me Victoria sounds more appealing because of the weather, ocean and mountains are not too far.... The biggest disadvantage - too far to travel to Europe...


Everyone has a Canadian list. From the Globe and Mail: Want to retire in Canada? Here are seven surprisingly warm spots. Niagara Falls and N.O.T.L. place 1st and 2nd.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ck-out-seven-spots-in-canada/article16755296/


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## gibor365

naysmitj said:


> Everyone has a Canadian list. From the Globe and Mail: Want to retire in Canada? Here are seven surprisingly warm spots. Niagara Falls and N.O.T.L. place 1st and 2nd.
> 
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ck-out-seven-spots-in-canada/article16755296/


" surprisingly warm spots" ?! really?! Over there already below 0  And what to do in those 2 towns?! I wouldn't be ranking then even in first 100


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## HaroldCrump

gibor said:


> " surprisingly warm spots" ?! really?! Over there already below 0  And what to do in those 2 towns?! I wouldn't be ranking then even in first 100


It's not that bad, really.
It's the first week of Nov, so if it's "only" 0, that's not too bad.
The rest of the country is several degrees below, except the west coast.

As for what to do...there is plenty to do in that area.
It's also closer to the Buffalo airport, in case you want to fly to some other destination in the US.

If "warm" and "Canada" are your retirement criteria, choices are fairly limited other than southern Ontario & BC.


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## gibor365

> As for what to do...there is plenty to do in that area.
> It's also closer to the Buffalo airport, in case you want to fly to some other destination in the US.


 i didn't notice that "there is plenty to do in that area."  I live in Mississauga, so I can drive to Buffalo airport 1.5 hours if i want (did it before)...and no real difference in weather between GTA and Niagara towns 



> If "warm" and "Canada" are your retirement criteria, choices are fairly limited other than southern Ontario & BC.


 if i also add mountains, ocean, wildlife ... it's practically limited to Victoria area and South of Vancouver


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