# filing very late, is a VDP form necessary? or just file the returns?



## modul (Mar 3, 2016)

if you are filing late returns, you are basically voluntarily filing, so is it even necessary to fill out a VDP form (voluntary disclosure program)? 

or should I just file the returns and be caught up once and for all? 



I'm assuming VDP is more for someone that purposely forgot to enter income and is now coming forward, rather than a simple case of being really late catching up with filing altogether, is this right?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

It is not clear to me ... the example at CRA's link for someone who hasn't filed several years worth is a newcomer to Canada.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/voluntarydisclosures/

I have a buddy who didn't file for about ten years and eventually did when enough letters from CRA showed up requiring a return. He sent in the returns. If I recall correctly, a couple of years later he ignored it long enough that CRA issued a NOA with interest plus penalties. He again filed without going through the VDP form and other than arguing with the collections rep. This was around twenty years ago.


Unless it is a long form and tedious, I would fill it out to be safe.


Cheers


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## modul (Mar 3, 2016)

so there is never any negative to submitting a VDP form? other than the few minutes time to fill it out? or can it cause other delays in processing your returns or something?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I wouldn't think so ... the point of the VDP is to allow people to report themselves, which cuts down on cost and effort to go after someone that CRA has identified.

I would hope that worst case would be that it might be reviewed a bit more carefully but there is no incentive to hold onto too long as what little CRA pays in interest starts when they have the info. Delaying the return costs them a bit of interest so unless there is something for them to look into and where likely the person going this route is trying to get things back on track (i.e. not trying to cheat CRA) ... there does not seem to be much to cause a delay.

Without someone on the inside to give the timings ... I am not sure how one would separate the extra time it takes an out of date return to go to the appropriate place versus a run of the mill return. My buddy said that for the ten years worth he filed, part of the delay was that he did not read the CRA letter closely enough to realise that the out dated tax returns were supposed to be sent to a different office than the one he would send a recent tax return to.


Cheers


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## modul (Mar 3, 2016)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... My buddy said that for the ten years worth he filed, part of the delay was that he did not read the CRA letter closely enough to realise that the out dated tax returns were supposed to be sent to a different office than the one he would send a recent tax return to.
> 
> 
> Cheers


thanks for this, I had no idea that there were different addresses, will have to look into this now.... I was hoping to file the last 3 year returns by netfile, and mail the older returns in (actually I was planning on dropping them off in the box at the cra office that is intended for current returns, glad I read your comment as I will now look for this other address that is for old returns)

thanks


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I don't know if Netfile will work ... I thought that one had to be current on the 2012 and earlier tax returns before one could NetFile the 2013+ ones. I could be confusing the requirements for having one's employer reduce the withholding tax on one's employment income.

If you haven't already NetFiled a return, it looks like NetFile will be out of the picture until you do.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/esrvc-srvce/tx/ndvdls/netfile-impotnet/lgblty-eng.html#other


Keep in mind that NetFile did not exist when this guy was filing the outdated returns so a blend paper returns then NetFile the rest (i.e. 2013 + ) may work.

The different address might have been driven by the fact he let it get to the point where CRA ran a NOA based on what they had (which didn't include a lot of stuff) *and* get to the collections dept for the interest/penalties the incomplete info generated.

Since you are coming forward with the returns where CRA has apparently not requested them yet, I would mail the 2012 and older returns to your normal tax centre.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/cntct/t1ddr-eng.html


Cheers


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## modul (Mar 3, 2016)

thank you Eclectic12, your information was very helpful

I have a further question, reading the VDP page, it seems to say that one shouldn't file the VDP form if "...income tax returns with no taxes owing or with refunds expected;"

but a ways above that it says "you did not report an amount of GST/HST (which may include undisclosed liabilities or improperly claimed refunds or rebates or unpaid tax or net tax from a previous reporting period);"


does the first line I quoted, which says "income tax returns" also follow for GST returns? my unfiled gst returns will result in a much larger ITC total than collected GST total, so overall I would have no GST owed overall (there may be a quarter where the GST collected was slightly higher than my ITC's, but the very next quarter the ITC's are much greater than collected GST, and the overall over the number of years sees an ITC-collected GST which should be a large refund towards me).... therefore, a VDP form is unnecessary, correct? or is GST considered differently and even though I am apparently owed a large refund, should I file a VDP anyways in case the second clause takes precedence ("you did not report an amount of GST...")

does common sense prevail and since I am expecting an overall refund of GST, I shouldn't file the VDP? ("Disclosures relating to any of the following are not accepted under the VDP: if "...income tax returns with no taxes owing or with refunds expected;")

so my question is basically, is a late GST filing needing a VDP even if filing them shows a refund expected? 

thank you


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

You can always phone CRA with these questions, Modul. They do not need your SIN or BN to answer a general question.


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