# Electric stove: repair or replace?



## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I have a 13 year old electric stove. Top heat elements work fine. The oven doesn't heat.

I ran a bunch of tests and found that electronic control board doesn't send 120V down to the bake element. I'm pretty sure that ECB has failed.

The ECB is no longer available for sale (the part is too old). My choices are: try to repair the ECB, or buy a new stove.

I found a Canadian business that repairs the ECBs. All-in cost to repair is $230 - $250 (repair/shipping/taxes). Repair warranty is 1 year.

All-in cost to buy a similar new stove is $735.

I can save about $500 by repairing the ECB.

Repair or replace? What would you do?


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

I would replace it - trying to find the most energy efficient unit I could. I don't know how you pay for electricity, but I don't think it will be getting any cheaper anywhere in the predictable future.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Many times with the ovens I've found its actually the element that goes. Once the element it toast, the ecb doesn't send power down to the element. Out of all the ones that have gone (and with my rentals there have been plenty over the years) I've never had a board go. 

Elements are relatively cheap (30-100) and easy to replace (usually 2-4 screws and a couple of quick connects), a five minute job. They can even be found at hardware stores like Home Depot for the common ones.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Userkare said:


> I would replace it - trying to find the most energy efficient unit I could. I don't know how you pay for electricity, but I don't think it will be getting any cheaper anywhere in the predictable future.


Are you saying buy new because they are more energy efficient? Or buy new and look for the most energy efficient model?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> Many times with the ovens I've found its actually the element that goes. Once the element it toast, the ecb doesn't send power down to the element. Out of all the ones that have gone (and with my rentals there have been plenty over the years) I've never had a board go.


I tested the bake element. The resistance is within specs (20 Ohm). The temperature sensor is also within specs (1080 Ohm).

Each side of the bake element is supposed to get 120V. I tested both circuits. One delivers 120V, the other one doesn't. The circuit that failed goes straight to the ECB.

ECB failure is not that uncommon.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> I tested the bake element. The resistance is within specs (20 Ohm). The temperature sensor is also within specs (1080 Ohm).
> 
> Each side of the bake element is supposed to get 120V. I tested both circuits. One delivers 120V, the other one doesn't. The circuit that failed goes straight to the ECB.
> 
> ECB failure is not that uncommon.


Sounds like it could be one of the relay contacts supplying 120v to the bake element is burned. not sure if you can get these relays as a separate part. You may have to replace the entire ECB. Be careful around 240v electric stove circuits..those are lethal voltages!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MriKb4EykO8


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> I have a 13 year old electric stove.
> The ECB is no longer available for sale (the part is too old). My choices are: try to repair the ECB, or buy a new stove.
> 
> I found a Canadian business that repairs the ECBs. All-in cost to repair is $230 - $250 (repair/shipping/taxes). Repair warranty is 1 year.
> ...


If the current ECB has lasted 13 years, then the failure is worth repairing. Chances it will last another 10 years or more.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

From what I know, a new stove won't be any more efficient than an older one. A 2000 watt heating element still takes 2000 watts. Perhaps there could be a bit more insulation in a new oven but I somehow doubt it. I think the older non electronic controls are more robust than the newer electronic ones. Also older stoves have more steel in the panels. The new ones dent if you look at them wrong. Look around on Kijiji for an oven like yours for next to nothing and remove what you need and recycle the rest. Of course that could take some time and an over is not something that you can be without for a while. I bought a small 'toaster' oven that sits on the counter and use it most of the time rather than the big oven. Works great and doesn't use nearly as much power


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Brian K said:


> From what I know, a new stove won't be any more efficient than an older one. A 2000 watt heating element still takes 2000 watts. Perhaps there could be a bit more insulation in a new oven but I somehow doubt it.


I agree. A bake element is a bake element is a bake element. The only way to make it "more efficient" is to under-power it.

The most efficient stoves don't have the self-cleaning feature. Self-cleaning mode is an energy hog. We never use it, even though our oven does have it.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> Each side of the bake element is supposed to get 120V. I tested both circuits. One delivers 120V, the other one doesn't. The circuit that failed goes straight to the ECB..


With no power to the stove ... can you trace the resistance back from the no voltage side to the ECB and see if a certain part has failed?
Might be able to replace the component yourself if you're comfortable with that.

IMO the second option would be to get a new (and cheaper) stove. The newer ones seem to have a much higher failure rate than the "good old day's" ones. Oddly enough I just went through this oven troubleshooting with a friend three days ago.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Trouble shooting a bake element? Also a few days ago my friends stoves' lower bake element failed. He replaced it and it still didn't work. I found that there was a thermal safety snap switch in the upper left of the oven - on the opposite side where the oven thermostat goes into the oven. When checked with my ohm meter it as open - no continuity. We took the device apart and could easily see that the contacts were burnt off. This was in a newer 24" stove with only 1 fuse for the plug and a digital clock. I have never seen one of these thermal switches before. If you have a volt meter you should be able to follow the schematic to see where the problem is. As said before be careful - to voltage to the elements is usually 240vac. 

I don't use the self clean feature either. It gets way too hot and with the fridge right next to it, the fridge would get a work out. I put some Styrofoam between the fridge and the oven and it melted - so you can imagine how hot it gets. (I agree - poor kitchen design but whatcha gonna do? lol)


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

cainvest said:


> With no power to the stove ... can you trace the resistance back from the no voltage side to the ECB and see if a certain part has failed?
> Might be able to replace the component yourself if you're comfortable with that.


The side without voltage is a straight wire from the ECB to the bake element. There are no components in between. I forgot to test the wire resistance - will do it later today. But visually it looked good to me. No burn marks or anything else unusual.

Troubleshooting ECB is beyond my pay grade.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Where are you measuring "without voltage"? If you are measuring the same voltage - the voltage will appear to be zero. I believe you are dealing with 240vac. If you measure to ground or neutral, both will show 120vac but line to line will show 240vac. It could very will be that the contact is not closing in the ECB to put the 240 to the element.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I followed the instructions here:

http://fixitnow.com/wp/2007/11/26/how-to-troubleshoot-an-electric-oven-that-doesnt-heat-up/

1. There are two wires connected to the bake element. Each is supposed to measure 120V to the ground.
2. I disconnected one of the two wires and left it dangling in the air.
3. Turned on the oven.
4. Measured the voltage between the dangling wire and the unpainted metal on the stove body. Got 120V.
5. Measured the voltage between the second wire and the stove body. Got 0V.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Brian K said:


> It could very will be that the contact is not closing in the ECB to put the 240 to the element.


That was my thought, some have separate relay boards or it may be all on one board. 
Could be as simple as a relay not functioning correctly (likely problem) which should be a cheap part to replace.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Here's the wiring diagram just in case you are still curious. 

I marked the two wires I measured green and blue. I disconnected the green one. It measured 120V to the body. Blue measured 0V. The wire goes straight to the bake relay on the ECB (contact E7). The relay must be stuck open.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree - the Bake relay K2 is probably NFG. If you can open up the control module, you can probably replace the relay if it is a solder in type. There are probably numbers on it that specify the model number. You should be able to measure 120vac on the other side of the relay on Terminal E9. Then the voltage from E9 to your green Y-9 should be 240.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Brian K said:


> I agree - the Bake relay K2 is probably NFG. If you can open up the control module, you can probably replace the relay if it is a solder in type.


And if you're really lucky it'll be in a relay socket.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Yeah - LOL and then Murphy shows up! He hasn't been here yet.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Brian K said:


> Yeah - LOL and then Murphy shows up! He hasn't been here yet.


Hello, Murphy.

The relay is soldered. To replace it, you have to open the ECB box.

To open the ECB, you have to remove the overlay that displays the touch buttons. There is no other way around it. The overlay covers the locking tabs.

The overlay is a piece of plastic. It is painted white on the inside surface that adheres to the ECB. 

This is the result. Note that I worked *very* carefully.










The old overlay turned into a piece of garbage. A new one costs $46 USD or $65 CAD, plus shipping. GRRRRRRR.

Found this youtube video shot by a pro repairman. In some cases, the overlay costs more than the board itself. What a racket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLIjn-5H_o


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

But how does it look if you just place the overlay on top again matching up the separated white blotches?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

cainvest said:


> But how does it look if you just place the overlay on top again matching up the separated white blotches?


Looks like garbage. You can see the black outlines around the blotches. They don't blend in.

Anyway, I will worry about this later. Need to repair the board first.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

GoldStone said:


> Are you saying buy new because they are more energy efficient? Or buy new and look for the most energy efficient model?


Both. The newer ones can be more efficient, and you can select additional features that could also save energy.

We replaced our ~20 yr old stove just last year. We went from electro-mechanical analogue controls with the coil stove top elements, to the new electronic controls with the smooth top. The smooth top are apparently more efficient than the old coil type; I would consider an induction type of stove top that are even more energy efficient. We like all the programmable features that can do functions like "keep warm" without periodically checking if the food is still hot, or over-heating and starting to dry out. The old analogue oven control wasn't very precise below 200F. 

If you get a self-cleaning oven model, you don't have to use that feature, but it will be better insulated and the door will make a better seal; some ( ~2% ) energy savings there. If you do a lot of baking, consider a convection model.

I don't think you'll find an Energy Star rated stove; I don't believe they even rate them. I agree, you won't realize a huge savings, but every bit helps; plus, all the new-fangled features are nice.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Userkare, thanks. Our stove meets all your check marks. Smooth top, self-cleaning, convection. The glass top looks almost like new after 13 years of use. 

Frankly, I see little reason to buy a new model. I hope can fix the old one.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Keep us up to date on the progress of the repair. Always interesting to hear success stories.
Maybe some white spray paint on the display to cover the areas where the paint came off. It might look a bit different but better than nothing.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

The bake relay is K2. It supplies 120v to the main contactor (power relay) as the elements are at least 3000 watts, and that would be about 15amps (1500watts) on each leg of the 240 volts phase A and phase B of the 240volts coming in on the 3 pin stove power plug. 

The main relay contactors (BL-9) goes to the NC (Normally Closed) contact that supplies the bake element, and that would come from this relay when not operated. 
One side of the bake element goes to relay K2 (bake relay) which supplys the power for one side of the bake element (k-9).
Perhaps those contacts could be burned/ not making contact, signifying a high impedance on the ohm meter.

Maybe check out the contacts on the DLB relay which seems to supply the 120v power for both the broil element and the bake element. 
Although that contact is not marked on the schematic as NC (normally closed), it would seem then that the contacts would "open" if that relay is operated, so it could be just a delayed operation relay.


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## livewell (Dec 1, 2013)

I am now very interested/keen on you fixing this stove as I think I have the same stove. Slide-in stove with glass top and convection oven, its a nice stove and worth fixing. 

Is it only the bake element that is not working? Does the oven heat up on the convection oven setting? Looking at the schematic the answer to this could narrow down the fault.

(We normally only every use the convection setting, don't think we ever use the bake setting to cook anything in the oven.)


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I took the board out of its box. That was harder than it should be. I had to trim the locking tabs with an utility knife, otherwise they wouldn't open.

Here's the board. It consists of two sandwiched parts. I pried them open to get access to the back of the bake relay. One of the solder joints looks burned out. See the red circle.










The close-up of the bad joint:










My plan is to resolder the joint and retest the board. Hopefully that will do the trick. If that doesn't work, I will order a new relay.

I don't have a soldering iron to do this myself. Waiting to see a friend who does small electronic repairs as a hobby.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

livewell said:


> Does the oven heat up on the convection oven setting?


No.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Nice work and ya, many boards are not "repair friendly" for access.

While it's open might want to test the resistance of the coils, compare K2 to other k# relays which are probably the same.
Sometimes the relay connections are stamped on the cover but you can likely find the coils by elimination.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Well done finding that. And that type of failure is the best - because it is obvious and easily repairable. I have a Bosch dishwasher that had the same problem on the heater circuit. Can you determine if that relay is the K2 relay or part of the bake circuit? If you have an ohmmeter you should be able to see if that is part of that circuit or not. It might me a good idea while you have it apart and access to a soldering gun, to add more solder to other power soldering. And thanks for the picture - as always it is worth a thousand words. You should also take a pic of the relay side too.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Yes, the bad joint is K2 relay.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

You know - fixing this yourself would almost justify buying your soldering gun kit - but nothing like 'free'. Watch for one on sale at Princess Auto. Get the gun type rather than the pencil ones. Oh wait - here I go spending someone else's money again!


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## livewell (Dec 1, 2013)

Way to go you are 80% of the way there to fixing it! 

I had to change the convection oven element on mine a couple of years ago, the element is a combined element with the bake element (4 terminal and the bake element spirals around the convection element which makes it a bit more expensive than a regular element. My plastic control input cover over the control box has a crack in it around the most used button, after seeing the cost of it in the youtube video you posted I don't think I will be replacing it!!


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Have a look at the web site below. The stove knobs in the link are metal and work much better on the Jennair gas stove top. I was replacing the crappy factory plastic ones because guess what - the heat melted them (duhh) and they were about $30 each. Do a search on control knobs or the like and see what turns up. You probably need a 6mm hole to attach the knob. I think 8 mm is a European size so watch the size. 

I have purchased lots of things from Aliexpress with relatively little issues and no problems with the credit card. Shipping takes about a month so you have to be prepared to wait but the prices are great. I have purchased many things - carb's, phone batteries and cords, LED bulbs, toothbrush heads etc. The only disappointment was dimmable LED bulbs. 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Pi...-Switch-Replacement-6mm-Hole/32357742084.html


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> I took the board out of its box. That was harder than it should be. I had to trim the locking tabs with an utility knife, otherwise they wouldn't open.
> 
> Here's the board. It consists of two sandwiched parts. I pried them open to get access to the back of the bake relay. One of the solder joints looks burned out. See the red circle.
> 
> ...


 Good that you have it isolated to that solder joint. 
This often happens when high AC current is used on printed circuit boards and overheats the solder joint.

I had the same problem a few years back on my furnace control board, The printed circuit track that connected the furnace blower fan motor relay to the plug that goes
to the fan motor had opened up with a bad solder connection (similar to this one), and the blower did not work.

I took the control board off, scraped the coating on the pc track between the relay contact and the molex plug solder joint, then reinforced it with a 14 guage piece of copper wire, which I soldered to the overheated connections (relay contact and molex plug contact) with plenty of 63/37 solder and liquid flux.

It hasn't failed yet on me yet, although I did order a new control board for it this past November, just in case.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Did ya get it fixed? We're still waiting to hear!


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

No, not yet. My friend who repairs electronics is on vacation.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I borrowed soldering iron from a friend, re-soldered the joint, and...... we are back in the baking business.

I still need to touch up the control panel. This is what it looks like now:










But that's a project for another weekend.

Thank you everyone for your feedback. You've been very helpful.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Maybe some whiteout or an automotive white-ish touch up pen would make it look better.
Good to hear it's working though, saved a lot over buying a new stove.


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## 6811 (Jan 1, 2013)

My 5 year old Whirlpool glasstop had a burner fail last weekend. Son-in-law suggested watching a troubleshooting video he found on YouTube http://youtu.be/gjC4ubPm2pg - which I did, and ended up ordering a new burner from http://www.partselect.ca/ who delivered in two days. Replaced the burner on Thursday, it took about an hour. All I needed tool-wise was a Philips head screwdriver on my cordless drill, a pair of pliers (for removing wiring plugins) and an ohm meter.


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