# Furnish living room of Rental Property?



## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Was wondering if any landlord or even people who would think of renting consider furnishing a rental unit a benefit? 

Bought a small property in the GTA. Very small. A condo alternative type place. Detached but just 1 floor. No basement (crawlspace). I want to market it in a way where it will make a potential tenant enticed to rent the unit. I've already decided the deck out back is a key seller so I'll be looking to furnish it with a nice, more expensive patio chair set and nice little bbq (i.e. Weber or Napoleon). Will also look to provide a small dining table for the eat in area. 

However, for the main living room, which again is condo sized, I'm wondering if furnishing with a sofa and coffee table is a good idea? The thinking is it would attract first time renters (downside is inexperienced renter will complain more), or those from out of town the hassle of buying something new in a living space that won't be their forever home. 

Or do tenants always have and prefer their own sofa. And if a 2nd tenant comes in, they would not want to use a 'used' sofa. 

I'm thinking of taking pictures, furnished with a small, light set I have. But then possibility negotiating, if the tenant really wants it furnished, and they plan to stay long-term (beyond a year) I'll buy a set for it. I'm not trying to make huge $$ off this rental. More of a long-term carry and hold, with the notion of downsizing to it in older age. 

Any suggestions or perspectives are welcome :smile:


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Considering hygiene, I'd never want to rent or own a furnished apartment. Especially these days where bugs are such a problem. 

Also, it's just more things for them to break, or steal when they leave. 

Better to have a nice place, with neutral modern colours.


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Just a Guy said:


> Considering hygiene, I'd never want to rent or own a furnished apartment. Especially these days where bugs are such a problem.
> 
> Also, it's just more things for them to break, or steal when they leave.
> 
> Better to have a nice place, with neutral modern colours.


Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll just stick with the patio seating set since people generally don't want to spend alot of $$ on it for a rental as well as bbq.

Since the eating area is quite small, and would be optimized with a certain type of table which I have in mind, I might throw that in as an option once a tenant has been chosen and seems like they would benefit from it.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If you supply a BBQ and a fire were to occur, you may be found liable. If they store the propane inappropriately, you may be found liable. If the chair breaks and they hurt themselves, you may be found liable...

Just a few of the ridiculous ways your "good idea" may have unintended consequences. Not that I've ever heard of this happening, but it is a possibility...


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Just a Guy said:


> If you supply a BBQ and a fire were to occur, you may be found liable. If they store the propane inappropriately, you may be found liable. If the chair breaks and they hurt themselves, you may be found liable...
> 
> Just a few of the ridiculous ways your "good idea" may have unintended consequences. Not that I've ever heard of this happening, but it is a possibility...


So put in a clause that says "no bbq on the premises"? Just looking around, I see many rentals (including vacation rentals, cottage, etc) that include a bbq. Would requiring the seller to sign-off on a waiver help for liability purposes? Maybe I'll build a 'fire' proof encasement to make sure any fire would be contained. 

Thanks for the insight on this though and perspective.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

When something happens, the lawyers sue everyone and the courts have to sort out liability...the fact that you supply something increases the chance you'll be liable...of course technically you allowed the tenant, so you're already probably liable...


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I have had furnished and unfurnished rentals. Furnished tends to attract less responsible, more transient tenants. I went to all unfurnished years ago.

However, I have no experience of 'modern' things like Air B 'n B which may give you a better return.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

I was married to a lawyer for a few years and learned a lot. Primarily, I learned that people's idea of the law comes from TV and our TV is American so people don't have a clue. The idea that you can get rich if someone spills a drink on you is decidedly American. We are in Canada. Canada is a common law country. It's tough to get a frivolous suit past a pre-trial, although it happens occasionally.

If your furniture is in good condition and it is reasonable to think it is safe and appropriate to the task, you will be fine. For someone to successfully sue you, they will have to prove negligence and damages.

The only thing I have stayed away from is renting a house with a hot tub. There are too many opportunities for hot tubs to go rancid. Renters can't be trusted to turn the outdoor hydrants off in the fall, never mind keep pool chemistry under control to keep from killing themselves. I've considered going with executive rental and maintaining the hot tub myself but decided against it, despite my lawyer telling me there are no specific problems. It isn't just about the law. Some ideas are simply not that great. ... so I have a spare hot tub in storage.

Tenants are weird. I had no idea people are so weird until I got a bunch of rentals. This phase of my life will be over in a few years and I'll be glad when that day comes. One guy will think your sofa is fantastic and the next guy will want to burn it in place.

The only thing I know about what renters want is they all want a beautiful home, even if they are crack heads who are moving from their last rental which they completely ruined in 30 days. Have a look at their car when they come to view a house. If the tires are bald and the passenger seat is full of fast food containers, keep looking.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

For the most part, I was thinking about insurance claims when it came to liability and excuses for them to deny coverage not so much the lawsuit aspect of things.


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Just a Guy said:


> When something happens, the lawyers sue everyone and the courts have to sort out liability...the fact that you supply something increases the chance you'll be liable...of course technically you allowed the tenant, so you're already probably liable...


Agreed. Thanks for pointing that out as one of many things to consider. I haven't closed on the house yet, so still lots of time.



Rusty O'Toole said:


> I have had furnished and unfurnished rentals. Furnished tends to attract less responsible, more transient tenants. I went to all unfurnished years ago.
> 
> However, I have no experience of 'modern' things like Air B 'n B which may give you a better return.


That is a worry too as people who don't want their own furniture for a rental are a different type of breed. Since this place is suitable for about 2 people, if it was a young person just moving out or someone from out of town, that seems professional, and responsible, I was just thinking of ways to make it easier on certain items if again, their intent is to stay longer-term. But as noted, if they're serious and desireable renters, they'll be responsible enough to want and get their own coffee/kitchen table, sofa. 



TomB19 said:


> I was married to a lawyer for a few years and learned a lot. Primarily, I learned that people's idea of the law comes from TV and our TV is American so people don't have a clue. The idea that you can get rich if someone spills a drink on you is decidedly American. We are in Canada. Canada is a common law country. It's tough to get a frivolous suit past a pre-trial, although it happens occasionally.
> 
> If your furniture is in good condition and it is reasonable to think it is safe and appropriate to the task, you will be fine. For someone to successfully sue you, they will have to prove negligence and damages.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips on that. That's what my initial perspective was. But at the time, you just never know. Why increase the odds. Since this is a lower cost place, I'm willing to wait for the right tenant. It's not a 3 bedroom house that would attract a family. I'd be looking at it for someone who wants a detach/own space, responsible professional (don't we all want that). In the GTA in general, it's a bit easier to find from my understanding. The house next to us sold last year and is also rented out. We haven't met the renter, but in the driveway, was a company car (some kind of engineering firm) that my wife's company is a client of. Likely has to travel around to different sites. Definitely higher on the pay scale. So I would hopefully be able to target similar, or a public sector worker in the area might find it suitable. I have friends in the area (Durham) and also have one who's friend is at the Pickering Power plant who can post up the ad in their workplace. I'll see how that goes getting the word out. 

Oh yea, anything to do with water, I definitely would not have considered. I'll ask the insurance company as well or do some research on that regarding liability, coverage, etc.,


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Since it's detached I would definitely not furnish it. Anyone looking for detached will have their own furniture (and will be annoyed if a place is furnished).


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Spudd said:


> Since it's detached I would definitely not furnish it. Anyone looking for detached will have their own furniture (and will be annoyed if a place is furnished).


That seems to be the consensus. I'll just make sure to freshly paint it a soft white, get new, fresh feeling window treatments, and take good pictures with good lighting. Might hire the company that listed for the neighbour's as they use a wide angle lens and good flash. The main thing I'll be looking to put in is the patio chairs for the back deck. BBQ will be a later decision based on additional information regarding liability, and if so, make sure it's in a safe, contained space away from the house.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

In my experience, renters have no respect for the property (high end) let alone any furnishings. You will be throwing money away and then will have the problems of disposing of it when the renter moves out.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I used to do blinds and window coverings...they always got trashed and needed replacing. Now I just do curtain rods so that they don't try to put up their own and do more damage.


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

I wouldn't want any furniture in a home I'm renting. For hygienic and taste purposes.


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

When I was a student, my landlord had a furnished house which was a big plus as it meant keeping more money in my pocket and was very much appreciated. We had couches, dining set and even spare pots and pans. We were good tenants. Unfortunately, the tenants downstairs didn't respect it at all and destroyed the furniture which upset my landlord.

If I was to look for a new place, I wouldn't consider a furnished apartment at all given the bedbugs issue and hygiene associated with couches. However, dining table and chairs (wooden, not upholstered) seem to be appreciated by a lot of folks so you can consider that. Blinds and window coverings are always appreciated and I've never seen an apartment for rent without them. Just get the cheaper ones (from wal-mart or something) so that you won't be too far in the hole if you have to replace them!


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

NorthKC said:


> When I was a student, my landlord had a furnished house which was a big plus as it meant keeping more money in my pocket and was very much appreciated. We had couches, dining set and even spare pots and pans. We were good tenants. Unfortunately, the tenants downstairs didn't respect it at all and destroyed the furniture which upset my landlord.
> 
> If I was to look for a new place, I wouldn't consider a furnished apartment at all given the bedbugs issue and hygiene associated with couches. However, dining table and chairs (wooden, not upholstered) seem to be appreciated by a lot of folks so you can consider that. Blinds and window coverings are always appreciated and I've never seen an apartment for rent without them. Just get the cheaper ones (from wal-mart or something) so that you won't be too far in the hole if you have to replace them!


Thanks for the insight on that. Yea, will keep it simple. Might put in the option of a simple kitchen table again, because the space of the layout is a bit tight so an appropriate sized table might be an option.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Is it going to give you any benefits? Are you going to get more rent? Are you going to get tenants faster than your competitors? If not, why are you so determined to do it?

It may turn off tenants who have their own furniture. They will probably treat it poorly. You aren't really attracted by the tenants who may be interested in partially furnished apartment, yet you seem determined to do it.

I don't understand your thinking. Do you just want to subconsciously control your tenants life?


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

Just a Guy said:


> Is it going to give you any benefits? Are you going to get more rent? Are you going to get tenants faster than your competitors? If not, why are you so determined to do it?
> 
> It may turn off tenants who have their own furniture. They will probably treat it poorly. You aren't really attracted by the tenants who may be interested in partially furnished apartment, yet you seem determined to do it.
> 
> I don't understand your thinking. Do you just want to subconsciously control your tenants life?


The hopeful benefit is a 'happier' tenant who will get attracted to a more comfortable place. Provide comfort in the back deck as a big selling point to justify a higher rent. Again, the kitchen table is because it's a smaller space, but that may be more of an option if I develop a good rapport with the potential tenant. I'm not counting pennies here in maximizing profits. 

We currently have a long-term tenant in the basement. We also used to rent out our house which , and guess what, it had a bbq and the tenants loved using it! (go figure). Now it wasn't marketed with it, but it just so happened we were living here, moved out for a few years, and it was just there which we said to go ahead and use it. Whenever I came over to fix something, or look at an issue, it definitely helped being pretty friendly with the tenants. 

The house also doesn't have a dishwasher. Should I also not install one as a benefit in hopes of securing a good tenant? Especially since Tenants treat everything like crap? Is updating curtains so bad? It already has rods and existing ones that are a bit gawdy. 

But since this is my first out of the gate rental in hopes of attracting a professional, long-term tenant, with specific defined rules, my thinking from a marketing and benefit perspective is what's driving my questions. Much like how a person would buy a condo that has some desirable amenities in hopes of attracting a higher paying tenant. Institution owned apartment rentals also consider 'luxury' amenities in the type of rent premium they would charge. 

Now you might be a more experienced landlord, and have come to learn to be a tough, don't give an inch landlord. If so, I'd be interested in hearing a confirmation on that. I'm still a naive, starry-eyed one, hopeful to have a good relationship with the tenant (assuming I can filter out a good one), wishful thinking of the positive side of things. 

In terms of control, you're right. Maybe there is a form of control. Rookie mistake type thing. But a negative covenant such as credit check, employment record is a form of trying to control the person. Why not a positive covenant such as a benefit of 2 patio chairs in the deck with no controlling conditions attached? Other than I'll come before winter to tie it up, much like how a condo building maintenance person will do it.

Again, I appreciate your viewpoint as you are speaking from experience.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I've had plenty of long term tenants over the years. Some places I've bought have left things behind like a picnic table. Sometimes a tenant leaves things behind as well, like a microwave or something. If they moved out and the stuff was no longer good, I threw it out and didn't replace. 

Personally, I haven't noticed that the next tenant stays any longer, or acts any better because of the stuff.

I have noticed a difference in people who are screened, and other landlords who don't bother to screen properly. 

This isn't to say I haven't had bad tenants, but people also don't move because the landlord over there provides a BBQ. Good screening and a good relationship probably gets you better tenants.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

A dishwaser is definitely going to be a plus for renters .I wouldn't overthink the furnishing stuff though.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mossman1 said:


> Agreed. Thanks for pointing that out as one of many things to consider. I haven't closed on the house yet, so still lots of time.
> 
> I'll ask the insurance company as well or do some research on that regarding liability, coverage, etc.,


As JAG and others have pointed out, renting out a house, never mind a furnished house to tenants unknown can be a big risk and responsibility if some happens such as a fire etc.

I would agree with JAG that supplying a bbq and propane tank is definitely not a good idea, not from just the issue of storing the propane tank (which do leak) but MISUSE resulting in burns, eyebrow singe-ing and other things such as smoke coming into the premises. Lets assume here that the tenant has a couple small kids that decided to "play" with the bbq and'are
badly burned as a result. MAJOR LAWSUIT!

Same with upholstered furniture, (beds and sofas) due to the bed bug infestation common in many citiies.

If there was an infestation, not only are *you responsible for disposing of the affected furniture but you would have to call in pest control to fumigate the premises. Same with roaches*.

As far as appliances (other than stove and fridge, that's about all you would need to supply and even there, you would be responsible to repair, if necessary.

Lastly, since you need to report the rental to a insurance company for your protection as a LANDLORD, lots of questions will be raised by the insurance company, before they issue a liability and fire insurance policy to you on the premises.

The tenants will have to have their own SEPARATE tenant contents insurance.

Your premiums will be based on your history as well as wether the tenants are smokers. That's a bit hard to say upfront,and this is something that has to be determined when the LEASE is signed. 

A clause has to be provided in the lease to be checked by the tenant whether ANYONE in the rental unit is a smoker, as most insurance companies will assume they are, and the insurance policy premiums could be higher as the insurance
company has to assume the risk if your place burns down due to careless smokers or kitchen fires due to unattended
pots catching fire on the stove.

After all, you are not the homeowner living in these premises.
Also things like smoke detectors and Carbon Monoxide detectors (if heated by fossilm fuels (nat gas or oil) will be necessary and proper egress available, in case of fire.


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## mossman1 (Feb 22, 2017)

carverman said:


> As JAG and others have pointed out, renting out a house, never mind a furnished house to tenants unknown can be a big risk and responsibility if some happens such as a fire etc.
> 
> I would agree with JAG that supplying a bbq and propane tank is definitely not a good idea, not from just the issue of storing the propane tank (which do leak) but MISUSE resulting in burns, eyebrow singe-ing and other things such as smoke coming into the premises. Lets assume here that the tenant has a couple small kids that decided to "play" with the bbq and'are
> badly burned as a result. MAJOR LAWSUIT!
> ...


Much appreciated in framing it from that perspective as well as the other very helpful information. Definitely true that this isn't a 'game' and all pre-cautions in being proactive and defensive must be taken. As well as making sure the place is clean, painted, basic functioning appliances, meets safety standards, good screening are the requirements for success in the long-run.


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