# CMF - High School Curriculum



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think CMF should be part of the high school curriculum.

It would be interesting for the kids to read up on all kinds of subjects, and could ask questions on what they don't understand.

They could hold discussions on what they think of various topics, or specific companies like Apple for example.

Think of the broad knowledge they would obtain.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

I think we could all agree that high school curriculums need to be better suited for the real world.

If more teachers/parents knew about this forum it would help many young adults with questions. 

Im very glad to have found this forum and tell people about it all the time. I wish I found it 3 years ago.. id be far better off do to some of my young foolish mistakes following the wrong advice. 

I think high schools also need to be a little more influential when talking about careers. This whole do what makes you happy doesn't help some one who is going to dedicate tons of money to school then come out thinking they can be for example be artists/musician ect and travel the world. 

Some how exposing students to different careers that will actually take them some where imo would be a useful course. Ontario youth apprenticeship program does a good job of this where available but thats more so trade related. Co ops should incorporated more


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I agree.I have honestly learned more from cmf(esp specific/tangible/transferable)skills than in high school math(leaving the basics out of it)
I would way rather learn via this format than have a 60 yr old miserable math teacher with bad body odor and chronic coffee breath telling me in a authoritative way and trying to convince me if or if not i am good in math(this was the jackass that taught me)
For the most part(no offence to teachers!)i couldn't stand them!some of the female teachers where nice(and gym teachers)but the nearly all my male high school teachers i could not stand
I'm not jaded though lol


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Well..... at least I can tell that your English teacher sure knew her stuff.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

who cares what you think steve?i don't.your a opinion is a zero factor.That is how it works outside of the halls of education.
In all seriousness if i seen my math teacher in sobey's i prob would tell him off.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

If they could properly teach kids about *exponentials* we'd solve a lot of financial literacy problems.

I've had this theory for a while that the human brain doesn't easily comprehend the exponential concept... we are built to understand linear things. Even though I was a strong math student, I think it took much longer (2 years into an engineering degree) before the exponential mind set really clicked in for me. Luckily in engineering you get exposed to log scales and all kinds of great stuff. But it's hard, and the brain needs a lot of training to get this "simple" concept.

If someone doesn't understant exponentials, they're guaranteed to get ripped off in finance


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

don't ya'll think, though, that cmf is too chaotic for a brand-new beginner in high school?

perhaps only in the winter term, after fall term learning what a stock is, what a bond is, what are mutual funds & etfs & why they are different.

there are a number of very young persons already here in the forum & they are awesomely talented. In fact they are amazing. My hope is that they serve as seed persons, showing sibs & friends how finance may be tricky but it's certainly do-able.

in practical terms i think what cmf needs are a few more human resources experts. We have The Bomb of course, but different kinds of persons who are knowledgeable about training & first jobs - especially training for the practical trades - would be great.

then we have to persuade the big bank brokers to work out special low New Investor fees. Brokers are getting the drift but far too slowly imho. Lowering all commish to flat rate $9.99, as some did recently, is a step in the right direction but it's not enough.

couple days ago we had a longtime youth member who'd just opened his first rrsp, age 23. But the big bank broker had somehow signed him up for an rrsp plan that had a fee of $100. It was a terrible mistake that should not have happened.

the forum managed to get his fee down to $25 but even that, i feel, is too much for anyone under the age of, say, 25. I strongly believe this cohort should have rrsps & tfsas for free.

i also believe the under-25s should be given 5-10 free trades every year in rrsp or tfsa, so they can buy & balance etfs - or even stocks - without cost. At least to a basic degree. This would be an initiative similar to questrade's offer to buy etfs without commish. What i'm assuming here is that, from an administrative point of view, it's much easier for a big bank broker to say OK 5 Free Trades Per Year, than it is for the same big bank broker to organize a universe of cooperating etfs.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

sags said:


> 1. I think CMF should be part of the high school curriculum.
> 2. hold discussions on what they think of *various topics,* or specific companies like Apple for example.


*1.* Not for beginners with zero knowledge. Need to learn the lingo first, so books can't be replaced.

This is always a good start; it's 1,2,3, not 3,2,1.
http://www.amazon.ca/Dummies-Guides-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=263003011

*2.* And about unions/the 1%, et al, right?


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## HomeChef (Jan 14, 2014)

donald said:


> a 60 yr old miserable math teacher with bad body odor and chronic coffee breath telling me in a authoritative way and trying to convince me if or if not i am good in math(this was the jackass that taught me)


Did we have the same math teacher??? Lol. Mine had a layer of cigarette stink along with the coffee breath.... :disgust:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

2. And about unions/the 1%, et al, right?.........LOL


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

HomeChef said:


> Did we have the same math teacher??? Lol. Mine had a layer of cigarette stink along with the coffee breath.... :disgust:


Seems like Donald and you were sitting in front row; hmmmmm, were you assigned those seats, if so, I wonder why? :biggrin:

I always sat in the center and had no such problems, LOL.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I'd never let my kids on here. Way too many crazies and way too much mis-information.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

actually, there's fabulous financial information on here.

because of the high post volume, there are more expert tips & insights on here than any investor could ever obtain from any single hired investment counsel no matter how fancy.

it's fairly easy to distinguish the wheat from the chaff.

as for recognizing a crazy, pillars, do you remember Roxanne, the nasty immigration fraudster from malaysia a few years ago? you were so smitten with her faked-up story that you were ready to hire her as your own research assistant lol


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

OK, Time for a 'me auld Mom' vignette. My Mother went to high school in Vancouver in the early 30s. Years ago she showed me one of her old text books. Half of it was taken up with tables.... present value, annuity, sinking fund. The remainder of the book was examples and questions such as...

"You have currently saved $x, your salary is $y and you plan to retire at a certain age. In order to accumulate enough money to fund a pension of $z, how much should you be putting aside each year to fund it?"

Remember.... this was the 1930s, no calculators, no computers, just these 3 tables. Here's the punchline..... the text book was Grade 11 Home Economics.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> donald said:
> 
> 
> > who cares what you think steve?i don't.your a opinion is a zero factor.That is how it works outside of the halls of education.
> ...


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I couldn't agree with you more Four Pillars.

You think CMF should be part of the curriculum? I think you're trolling or using sarcasm to prove a point (which is escaping me).

On the broader issue, of COURSE a money based forum would think that money should be better taught in school An automotive forum would think the same, a woodworking forum, likewise. 

High school has become a place to go for kids to wait until they're old enough for post secondary education. Give them a smattering of everything to try to help them figure out what they like and are good at, and ship them out the door.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> actually, there's fabulous financial information on here.


Agreed.



humble_pie said:


> it's fairly easy to distinguish the wheat from the chaff.


Not for someone who isn't very knowledgeable.



humble_pie said:


> as for recognizing a crazy, pillars, do you remember Roxanne, the nasty immigration fraudster from malaysia a few years ago? you were so smitten with her faked-up story that you were ready to hire her as your own research assistant lol


I'm pretty sure I've never considered hiring anyone in here for anything. You'll have to refresh my memory about that particular nut, although I think there is a very vague memory floating around my head...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i've helped a lot of young people in this forum & it's nice to see that many members here take seriously their obligation to do everything in their power to steer young people towards safe investments while they start up what will hopefully be a lifelong learning adventure.

upthread i mentioned how brokers could & should help with the cohort of the very young investor, from age 18 to about age 25, by offering low-fee or no-fee rrsp & tfsa.

students are not taught anything in school so in general, if their parents don't happen to have the knowledge to share with them, one has to wonder how exactly they are supposed to learn? it's great that some come to cmf forum. Almost without exception, they receive far better suggestions here than they will ever receive from the neighbourhood branch bank mutual fund salesman.

the way i see it, long-term the gummint of canada should channel some $$ to the securities authorities who could in turn mete it out as subventions to brokers who do develop special low-fee or no-fee rrsp programs for the ultra-young.

the idea would be to help build a cohort of future canadians who won't be broke or dependent at the end of their lives. In the long run it could save gummints a ton of social aid money.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> [re being able to distinguish cmf wheat from cmf chaff] Not for someone who isn't very knowledgeable


you're so right! is why cmf is not for high school students as several have stated above.

interestingly, what i've noticed among the young people who do come here, is that they above all others usually tend to be extremely good at identifying wheat & chaff!


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I sat in the back T,think it was grade 11 when i got expelled out of math class.
It was a sunny winter day and i had why back to a nice big window and was leaning back.
Mr math teacher ask me if i was enjoying myself back there.
I said the sun felt great on the back of my neck and it helps with my sad(seasonal affective disorder)he flipped out and told me to leave and never come lol
there were other things but i guess that was what broke the straw on the ol camel's back.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

High School never did any project, never handed anything in. I hardly ever showed up until review for exams.

Then I would get 98% on the exam just to piss the geek off. My final mark 48%.

I think high school should have monitory financial class.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

As well as a monetary financial (and a spelling) class.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Steve, does the Thatch Pub have a stand-up comedy night? :rolleyes2:


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

They don't, however they might consider me as a headliner.... with my walker, of course. This is 'off-season' at the Thatch. Thursday and Friday only.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

So, maybe _sit down_, rather than stand up, comedy?


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hey come on!..... it's a walker not a wheelchair.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)




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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

steve41 said:


> Hey come on!..... it's a walker not a wheelchair.


Well it worked for Tim Conway. :wink:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> I think CMF should be part of the high school curriculum ...


First off, it's more like adding it back as previous threads along this line have indicated examples such as:

a) when I went to high school, the non-university math class was covering topics such as tax returns as part of their curriculum while the advanced course were covering interest/compound interest/loans etc. 

b) I also recall someone posting a quotes from a home economics book that covered the same material.


Secondly - I think there's too much noise to use CMF as the pattern.


Thirdly - we'll have to see how it translates to the curriculum but Ontario has added Financial Literacy to elementary and secondary education.
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/surveyliteracy.html




sags said:


> ... Think of the broad knowledge they would obtain.


Problem is back when I went to school and kids were actually kicked out - there were lots who ignored the curriculum so as much as I like the idea in theory - it's not a panacea.


Cheers


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Kinda off-topic, but one of my peeves is the phenomenum called 'up-marking'. In order to preserve little Johnnie's feeling of self worth, the school system throws around 80%s and 90%s like candy.

When I graduated in 1959, our entire grad class numbered 150 students. At our final assembly, they called up 7 (count em, 7) students who had achieved an average of greater than B+ during the last 3 years of high school. 7 out of 150!

Could you imagine a school getting away with that these days?


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Steve, maybe you are cranky because your island pub is so lame - I mean, open two days a week? I'm stayin' the hell away from Hornby! :biggrin:


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Hey.... it was closed for all of Jan! Two days is a luxury. Our population goes from 7-800 to 4 or 5 thousand in the summer. Rather hard to forecast staffing, hours of operation, etc.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I guess my island has more alcoholics. *shrugs*


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

steve41 said:


> Hey.... it was closed for all of Jan! Two days is a luxury. Our population goes from 7-800 to 4 or 5 thousand in the summer. Rather hard to forecast staffing, hours of operation, etc.


You should try Saturna..... ~350 residents.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

I wonder what the critical mass is for cable, internet and a liquor store? 350 sounds low. Our curse is the frickin sandy beaches. In the summer, every teenager from Nanaimo to Campbell River (along with a couple cases of beer each) descend on Hornby like a plague of locusts. I can hear them getting ready now.... Crap, June is only 3 months away!


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

steve41 said:


> I wonder what the critical mass is for cable, internet and a liquor store? 350 sounds low. Our curse is the frickin sandy beaches. In the summer, every teenager from Nanaimo to Campbell River (along with a couple cases of beer each) descend on Hornby like a plague of locusts. I can hear them getting ready now.... Crap, June is only 3 months away!


First time I went to Saturna, (which we could see from our SSI place), we went via ferry.......Fulford to Swartz Bay, (wait and wait and wait)....Swartz Bay to Saturna (we were the only car on the ferry, and when the guy waved us off I pointed to myself and mouthed "Us?")..........after driving around the island our neighbor's lady said "Anywhere this difficult to get to should be better than this".

Next time we sailed and went to the lamb BBQ......busy, busy.

With abject apologies for hijacking we now return to regular programming........


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

The 1959 graduating class would struggle in grade 7 in today's world.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I lived most of my life in Vancouver, I know the larger islands but none of the smaller islands. Are there any that still have great deals for property? I imagine only the ones without ferry access?


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Adding a post to keep on topic - I remember in grade 9 taking a course on personal finance, maybe it was a part of consumer math, but I remember it was helpful and I wish it was repeated as part of math every year. Not just the math part, but really budgeting, common sense stuff that not all parents teach or even know about in order to pass along to their children.

My husband and I are somewhat knowledgeable about finances, self taught, but really we could do with knowing a lot more. Our daughter is six and I feel we should be teaching her more about comprimises as far as spending or saving money.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Remember, the ALR was invoked throughout the Gulf Islands. At that time, there were some small-lot subdivisions in place, but once the ALR came, everything was bundled into 5 and 10 acre chunks. Apart from waterfront, these acreages are still pricey, but like most recreational realestate, prices have come down. Oh, and without ferry access, forget it.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Oldroe said:


> The 1959 graduating class would struggle in grade 7 in today's world.


 Tell that to a college educator. They are seeing kids who don't know basic english nor math. I raised three kids and (so far) one granddaughter. I am, in no way impressed with the current curriculum


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

steve41 said:


> Remember, the ALR was invoked throughout the Gulf Islands. At that time, there were some small-lot subdivisions in place, but once the ALR came, everything was bundled into 5 and 10 acre chunks. Apart from waterfront, these acreages are still pricey, but like most recreational realestate, prices have come down. Oh, and without ferry access, forget it.


And when MacBlo got out of Galiano the Islands Trust wouldn't allow smaller parcels to be sold.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

Basic math can be bought at the buck store for $2 it's called a calculator. 

Get yourself some math questions from any gr 10 student see how you do.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Math is still pretty much math. I can still do my Gr 11 daughter's math with her. And in my high school probably 50% of students did all 3 senior maths - functions, algebra and calculus. That seems very rare in my children's friends and they go to a highly regarded high school. Marking and teaching the best of the best university students I am still sometimes amazed by gaps in math and even moreso in composition skills.


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