# Windows 10 is a free upgrade



## pwm

I run Windows 8.1 on my desktop, and I've already reserved my free upgrade to Windows 10 at Microsoft. It looks like an excellent free path to a new OS which by all accounts is better than Windows 8.1 and will be supported until the end of life of the PC.

Anyone else in the queue for Windows 10?


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## kcowan

I have Win7 which works fine. No need for the hassle of upgrading until there are some obvious benefits. They are offering the upgrade to even illegal copies of Windows. Buyer beware.


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## KaeJS

Considering Windows gets progressively worse and more difficult to use with each upgrade, I will not be switching until I get a new laptop and it is mandatory.

Whatever happened to Windows 2000 Professional? That was the best platform that ever existed.

Windows 8 is garbage. I can't stand how everything is all bubbly and they try to make it appeal to the "everyday consumer". They have tried to make computers EASIER to use and they have actually become more COMPLICATED. And all of this "Your computer needs an update" is such a hassle. I turn all of that stuff off. What an annoyance.


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## Barwelle

I'm on Win7 on my laptop at home. I probably won't upgrade either, but for a different reason than KaeJS. I'm not against trying something new but I like to play some games from the Windows XP era now and then. I'm sure Win10 will have a compatibility mode just like they have up to 8, but even with that, the further away we go from the original platform, the less likely it is that these programs will work.


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## cainvest

kcowan said:


> I have Win7 which works fine. No need for the hassle of upgrading until there are some obvious benefits.


Same here, if there is no good reason to move to 10 I'll stay with Win 7.


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## Eclectic12

KaeJS said:


> ... Windows 8 is garbage. I can't stand how everything is all bubbly and they try to make it appeal to the "everyday consumer".
> They have tried to make computers EASIER to use and they have actually become more COMPLICATED...


I'm not sure the everyday consume or simplifying was the objective ... it looked more to me like it was aimed to start moving the PC interface into tablet mode.


I can't say comment on Windows 8 as I haven't used it enough as work & home are on Win 7.


Cheers


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## My Own Advisor

pwm said:


> I run Windows 8.1 on my desktop, and I've already reserved my free upgrade to Windows 10 at Microsoft. It looks like an excellent free path to a new OS which by all accounts is better than Windows 8.1 and will be supported until the end of life of the PC.
> 
> Anyone else in the queue for Windows 10?


Where did you request pwm?


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## pwm

If you have windows update active you will get a "fix" that enables the upgrade via the windows update process. If you have the appropriate fix on, then a popup will appear in your system tray that says "get windows 10". If you have this popup, then just follow the instructions.

The patch is KB3035583.


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## humble_pie

wondering if this *fix* will be sent to all of the millions who have windows 7 or 8 w auto updates installed?

or will it only be sent to those who actively enrol for it on m'soft website

it sounds as if the popup can be utilized to decline windows 10, but sometimes such refusals don't work ...


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## cainvest

I'm sure you'll be able to upgrade manually at a later date, they just want to get an idea of how many will update near the release time. Chances are the reserved ones will get first priority for the download and others will have to wait so their servers don't get overloaded.


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## agent99

I would like to do the upgrade. But I would also like to retain Win7 Pro as-is. My laptop has two drives, so maybe I can arrange to have one OS on one and the other on the other. 

It would be best if MS automatically installed Win10 to a new partition and allowed you to retain Win7/8 until you became comfortable with the new system.


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## nathan79

I'll give it a shot. I skipped Windows 8. The rule of thumb with Windows is that every other edition is good...

Windows 98 - good
Windows ME - garbage
Windows XP - awesome
Windows Vista - garbage
Windows 7 - awesome
Windows 8 - garbage
Windows 10 - *fingers crossed*


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## cainvest

agent99 said:


> I would like to do the upgrade. But I would also like to retain Win7 Pro as-is. My laptop has two drives, so maybe I can arrange to have one OS on one and the other on the other.
> 
> It would be best if MS automatically installed Win10 to a new partition and allowed you to retain Win7/8 until you became comfortable with the new system.


Use Macrium Reflect (free) to image your drive before you update, then you can always restore it to what is was before.


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## agent99

cainvest said:


> Use Macrium Reflect (free) to image your drive before you update, then you can always restore it to what is was before.


Could do that, and will just in case something goes wrong. 

But, I think I would rather have both OS live at same time. Play with Win10 until familiar, but continue to use Win7 for everyday work. I am sure I can do this. Just have to choose boot drive at start up. I can actually install 3 physical drives plus an external USB for backup on laptop, so should be no problem. 

This link provides some help for those wanting to do something similar:

http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/


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## pwm

From what I've read, Microsoft will over the course of the next few weeks, pre-install the necessary files for the Windows 10 upgrade if you have reserved it. Then on the release date all you do is flip the switch and your install starts without overloading their servers on D day.


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## Userkare

pwm said:


> Anyone else in the queue for Windows 10?


I have it already installed ( the preview version ) on a removable hard disk drive on one 32 bit desktop computer. I can pop in a HDD for Win XP, Win 7, and now Win 10. I also have Win10 64 bit installed in a VirtualBox VM under Win 7 on another machine. I even loaded the Win10 IoT version on a RaspberryPi II, but haven't done too much with it yet.

So far it's not bad; but as usual, every new version of Windows makes some of my hardware peripherals no longer work. When I went to Win 7, I had to buy a new printer, because my 2 year old HP large format ( 11x17 ) wasn't supported. If I need to print something large, I have to plug in the Win XP HDD.

For this reason, I'm reluctant to jump into Win 10 with both feet until the final release version comes out, and I can see what drivers become available from the hardware vendors. I'll keep it on a removable HDD & as a VM for a while.


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## brad

KaeJS said:


> Considering Windows gets progressively worse and more difficult to use with each upgrade, I will not be switching until I get a new laptop and it is mandatory.


Based on everything I've read (from independent reviewers, not Microsoft!), Windows 10 is the exception -- it's been called the best version of Windows ever, and I'm definitely looking forward to it. The other thing that's great is that the same operating system will work on PCs, tablets, and phones, and the Windows phones will be able to run iOS and Android apps as well. You'll be able to buy a Windows phone, use it as a phone while you're out and about, and then plug it into a dock attached to a monitor, mouse, and keyboard, and use it as a regular computer. Not super powerful, but good enough for most people's uses.

Everyone laughs at Windows phone now (and in fact Microsoft is killing the Windows Phone name for the software), but I don't think they'll be laughing in six months' time. I've never had a smart phone, but with Windows 10 I could see myself buying a Windows phone.


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## Daniel A.

Have been on windows 7 and reserved for windows 10.


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## cainvest

agent99 said:


> Could do that, and will just in case something goes wrong.
> 
> But, I think I would rather have both OS live at same time. Play with Win10 until familiar, but continue to use Win7 for everyday work. I am sure I can do this. Just have to choose boot drive at start up. I can actually install 3 physical drives plus an external USB for backup on laptop, so should be no problem.
> 
> This link provides some help for those wanting to do something similar:
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/197647/how-to-dual-boot-windows-10-with-windows-7-or-8/


Sure, just clone the Win 7 drive to another drive, update one but not the other and you're good to switch between the two of them at boot time.


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## james4beach

Can I get a free upgrade from Windows XP? That's the last version of Windows I had.

Ever since then it's been Linux.


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## pwm

No upgrade from XP. Win 7 or 8.1 only.


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## humble_pie

someone in this thread said that microsoft is upgrading even pirated copies of windows 7?

this seems a little funny to me but if it's true, just go find a windows 7 somewhere


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## Pluto

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/29/windows-10-release-date-new-free-upgrade-rules/2/

What one could do is clone current O/S to another drive, then upgrade the clone to 10. However, there might be some licensing issues. There will probably be some limitation to the effect that upgrading to 10 requires not using 7 or 8 anymore. In that case the clone method would not be in compliance.


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## fraser

I am running 7. It is just fine.

Microsoft has about the worst reputation for quality assurance in the industry. Is there a particular reason why I should upgrade that I am not aware of?

Why would I take a chance on 10 when 7 meets my needs?


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## Beaver101

^


> ... Microsoft has about the worst reputation for quality assurance in the industry....


 ... not just that, but constant $$$ upgrades.

Wouldn't Windows 7 become obsolete at some point in time that user MUST update to whatever Windows Nth version?


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## My Own Advisor

pwm said:


> If you have windows update active you will get a "fix" that enables the upgrade via the windows update process. If you have the appropriate fix on, then a popup will appear in your system tray that says "get windows 10". If you have this popup, then just follow the instructions.
> 
> The patch is KB3035583.


I'll confirm that tonight....thanks!


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## brad

Beaver101 said:


> ^ ... not just that, but constant $$$ upgrades.
> 
> Wouldn't Windows 7 become obsolete at some point in time that user MUST update to whatever Windows Nth version?


Not until 2020. Microsoft will continue to support Windows 7 until January 14, 2020.


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## peterk

I bought one of the cheapest windows 7 laptops I could about 4 years ago ($350) so I doubt my machine will even run Windows 10 smoothly (I'm assuming it has much higher RAM and graphics processing demands than Windows 7). I'll wait till next year and probably go buy a new laptop with 10 preinstalled.


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## brad

peterk said:


> I bought one of the cheapest windows 7 laptops I could about 4 years ago ($350) so I doubt my machine will even run Windows 10 smoothly (I'm assuming it has much higher RAM and graphics processing demands than Windows 7). I'll wait till next year and probably go buy a new laptop with 10 preinstalled.


Actually your laptop might have enough horsepower: Windows 10 has the same requirements as Windows 8.1, which themselves weren't very high. 

Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster

RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)

Free hard disk space: 16 GB

Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver


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## Retired Peasant

I'm on Win7 as well; find it suits my needs just fine. I won't be reserving the upgrade to 10. The free upgrade is good until July 2016. I'll just wait and see, and decide next May/June whether I want to 'upgrade' to 10 or stick with 7 til 2020.


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## james4beach

Those RAM requirements may be the absolute minimums, but to actually have any reasonable experience on Windows you will want at least twice that.

For a 64-bit OS that means you'd better have at least 4 GB RAM. I'd also strongly recommend an SSD (solid state) disk.

Those two things (more RAM, and SSD) are the best bang-for-your-buck for improving your computing experience.


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## cainvest

james4beach said:


> Those two things (more RAM, and SSD) are the best bang-for-your-buck for improving your computing experience.


RAM is cheap and having a little extra won't set you back very much. SSDs are still much more expensive than a good HDD and not worth it unless you're trying to squeeze out every last bit out of a high performance machine. An SSD can be a good power saver for laptops though but again, at a fairly high price.


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## GreenAvenue

There isn't much change from Windows 8.1 with Windows 10. I have it on my laptop for about 2 months now and Windows 10 works fine.


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## JordoR

cainvest said:


> RAM is cheap and having a little extra won't set you back very much. SSDs are still much more expensive than a good HDD and not worth it unless you're trying to squeeze out every last bit out of a high performance machine. An SSD can be a good power saver for laptops though but again, at a fairly high price.


Going with a 120 or 256GB SSD for your OS is probably the single best performance upgrade you can do to a PC. You can get a 256GB SSD at just over $100 currently, which I would say is well worth it considering most people will spend 800-1000 on average for a PC.

I strongly agree with james4beach, it is the best bang-for-your buck currently.


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## cainvest

JordoR said:


> Going with a 120 or 256GB SSD for your OS is probably the single best performance upgrade you can do to a PC.


For the average user (web browsing, online banking, watching youtube, netflix, etc) I don't see much advantage, not to mention most "average" users wouldn't know how to install an SSD to replace their existing HDD OS drive. Then there is the issue of those that fill up their little SSD and run out of space, many users have bad habits when it comes to house cleaning their PC.

I tested out an SSD drive (Samsung 840) a while back when the SSD hype was really high, didn't make much different in my day-to-day operations. Sure, some programs and the OS loads a bit faster but those were trivial time savings IMO. I'd just wait a while longer for the prices to fall, say 1.25-1.5x the cost of a good HDD instead of the 3-5x its sitting at right now. Now I'm sure some will see a real and actual benefit of adding or changing to an SSD, other than just bragging about how fast their OS boots up .


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## JordoR

cainvest said:


> For the average user (web browsing, online banking, watching youtube, netflix, etc) I don't see much advantage, not to mention most "average" users wouldn't know how to install an SSD to replace their existing HDD OS drive. Then there is the issue of those that fill up their little SSD and run out of space, many users have bad habits when it comes to house cleaning their PC.
> 
> I tested out an SSD drive (Samsung 840) a while back when the SSD hype was really high, didn't make much different in my day-to-day operations. Sure, some programs and the OS loads a bit faster but those were trivial time savings IMO. I'd just wait a while longer for the prices to fall, say 1.25-1.5x the cost of a good HDD instead of the 3-5x its sitting at right now. Now I'm sure some will see a real and actual benefit of adding or changing to an SSD, other than just bragging about how fast their OS boots up .


Yeah you are correct, most average users wouldn't know how and would likely fill the drive up to the brim and be SOL without realizing the drive was intended for the OS/Apps and not any storage.

Personally, I build a lot of PC's for family/friends/myseld and wouldn't do a new PC these days without having an SSD in it. But if it's set up correctly from the start with an additional storage drive it can be a great addition 

Anyway, I probably helped steer this conversation a bit away from Windows 10... I think I'll stick with 7 for the time being.


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## Synergy

No harm in trying. I plan to load win7 back onto a portion of my hard drive, upgrade to win10 and dual boot with linux. If I don't like win10 I can easily wipe the partition and go back to linux.


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## Synergy

pwm said:


> No upgrade from XP. Win 7 or 8.1 only.


It looks like win XP or any PC for that matter may be able to upgrade to win 10 for free.
http://lifehacker.com/microsoft-confirms-windows-10-preview-users-will-get-a-1712774167


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## m3s

cainvest said:


> For the average user (web browsing, online banking, watching youtube, netflix, etc) I don't see much advantage, not to mention most "average" users wouldn't know how to install an SSD to replace their existing HDD OS drive. Then there is the issue of those that fill up their little SSD and run out of space, many users have bad habits when it comes to house cleaning their PC.


I put a 256GB Samsung 840 SSD in my PC when one of my RAID drives failed (replaced it with the OS drive) The Samsung drive came with software to clone the drive on to the SSD. It was very easy to do. I didn't buy it when I built the PC because I knew the SSD prices would come way down. It did make a noticeable difference in boot time.. but my PC still lags the same when I open Google Earth.. Maybe next winter when I'm bored I'll replace the RAM and update to Windows 10 (no rush!..)

I recently did the mid-life upgrade on my MacBook Pro that I'd planned since I bought it. It was lagging on massive HD video and RAW DSLR libraries with the new OS. I removed the optical drive that I've never used.. moved the original HDD into the optical drive's void.. and clean installed OS X Yosemite on a 512GB Samsung 840 SSD (room for a Windows partition when I ditch the PC!) and upgraded the RAM. Runs better than new.. which is good because I don't like the new MacBooks


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## pwm

Synergy said:


> It looks like win XP or any PC for that matter may be able to upgrade to win 10 for free.
> http://lifehacker.com/microsoft-confirms-windows-10-preview-users-will-get-a-1712774167


Apparently not. This is the latest from MS:

_Microsoft has managed to confuse us (again) about its Windows 10 upgrade policy. Last week, it said Insider Program preview users would "receive the Windows 10 final release build and remain activated." While testing the buggy preview may feel like work, the offer sounded too good to be true since it meant that virtually anyone who installed it could get a free copy. However, yesterday Microsoft quietly removed the "remain activated" part and clarified that only owners of a genuine Windows 7 or 8.1 copy would get the next version for free when it arrives on July 29th.
_


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## DiazJenkins

Yes Sure, This time windows 10 is free for upgrade with existing windows 8 and 8.1 users. it is officially announced by Microsoft.


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## pwm

Some news today at Forbes suggests Windows 10 may not be such a great deal after all. It suggests that free support now may only last 2 to 4 years. 


http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/10/free-windows-10-charges/


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## brad

I thought you always had to pay Microsoft for Support? Back when I was using XP and earlier versions, I always had to pay for support calls to Microsoft, which is why I rarely called them. ;-)


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## pwm

That's not the support they are referring to. They mean patches and security updates installed via the "Windows Update" process.


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## brad

pwm said:


> That's not the support they are referring to. They mean patches and security updates installed via the "Windows Update" process.


Ah, okay, now I get it. That's odd, since Windows 7 will be supported until 2020.


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## Spudd

I don't know, that article doesn't seem very professional. I will reserve judgement for now.


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## brad

Spudd said:


> I don't know, that article doesn't seem very professional. I will reserve judgement for now.


I agree, although I suppose I could see Microsoft shifting toward the subscription model for its operating system, since it has already been shifting toward a subscription model for Office. Still, doesn't most of the revenue for Windows, the operating system, come from computer manufacturers who have to buy licenses in order to install Windows on the computers they sell? I can't imagine they're losing that much revenue by giving away free upgrades. Apple's been giving away free upgrades to its new operating systems for several years now.


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## cainvest

Spudd said:


> I don't know, that article doesn't seem very professional. I will reserve judgement for now.


Exactly, wait three weeks and all (most anyways) information will be revealed. MS likes to test boundaries and then cave in under pressure when people start to complain so I wouldn't worry to much. Most Win7 users will likely stay put while the opposite is the case for a lot of Win 8.x users I'll bet.


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## pwm

Just did my upgrade this morning. Everything is working fine. The install process took a total of 1:05 on my Win 8.1 desktop PC. So far, I like what I see.


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## andrewf

I will hold off on upgrading until we get more clarity about the revenue model moving forward. I'm assuming the free upgrade will mean paid subscription at some point, and I don't want to surrender my use of my Win 8.1 or Win 7 licenses.

I'm very suspicious given how tight-lipped MSFT seems to be about what this means for those who upgrade.


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## brad

andrewf said:


> I will hold off on upgrading until we get more clarity about the revenue model moving forward. I'm assuming the free upgrade will mean paid subscription at some point, and I don't want to surrender my use of my Win 8.1 or Win 7 licenses.
> 
> I'm very suspicious given how tight-lipped MSFT seems to be about what this means for those who upgrade.


I think I see Linux in my future...

I don't have a problem with the concept of software-as-a-service, or even operating systems as a service, but as more businesses shift to that model the costs to the consumer start to increase dramatically. Any one software-as-service won't affect your budget, but how many people do you know who use only one app in their lives? I was an early adopter of subscription-based software but dropped most of my subscriptions once I saw that together they added up to something like $40/month, which over 5 years works out to $2,400. As someone who often skips upgrades and will keep the same software until it's no longer supported and becomes a security risk, this is way more than I'm used to spending. People like me are why software developers are switching to software as a service, but shifting costs to consumers is going to eventually create resistance and backlash.


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> I'm assuming the free upgrade will mean paid subscription at some point, and I don't want to surrender my use of my Win 8.1 or Win 7 licenses.


I can't see how Win 10 could switch to subscription, if they wanted that pricing model they would have started with it.

In any case, you won't lose use of your Win8.1 or 7, just backup your existing OS or reinstall from disk/HD image. Those who have already moved forward can confirm if MS also includes an uninstall upgrade option.


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> I will hold off on upgrading until we get more clarity about the revenue model moving forward. I'm assuming the free upgrade will mean paid subscription at some point, and I don't want to surrender my use of my Win 8.1 or Win 7 licenses.
> 
> I'm very suspicious given how tight-lipped MSFT seems to be about what this means for those who upgrade.


 Apparently you have to upgrade to Win 10 within 1 year from July 29/15.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2873...a-free-upgrade-for-windows-7-and-8-users.html

I'm on Win 7 and had to pay for a licence as well. I don't mind upgrading to Win 10, if there is some benefit to it, but it has to be a transparent OS upgrade. 

I don't want to spend hours having to download various applications after I upgrade the OS as well as the appropriate compatible device drivers. 

This was not the case with XP to Win7, where it took a long time to get my desktop applications downloaded and initialized to work with Win 7.

here's the other issue...



> Once you’ve claimed the upgrade,* it's permanent*, and Microsoft will keep you updated for the supported lifetime of the device.


This means that you can't go back, unless you start clean again with your previous OS...I don't like that. Obviously, they need more users out there to
debug Win 10 for them, to avoid user backlash like with Win 8.0, so they offer it for free to the first 1 million users?, I believe.


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## My Own Advisor

Already on 10 as of this morning. So far, so good.


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## cainvest

carverman said:


> This means that you can't go back, unless you start clean again with your previous OS...I don't like that.


Sure you can go back to Win7 or 8.1 -> how-to-uninstall-windows-10-and-downgrade-to-windows-7-or-8.1


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## nathan79

I reserved in June but still waiting for it to notify me that I can download it.

More info and possible fix: http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/28/h...tart-downloading-the-windows-10-update-files/


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## carverman

cainvest said:


> Sure you can go back to Win7 or 8.1 -> how-to-uninstall-windows-10-and-downgrade-to-windows-7-or-8.1


 ^ ^ ^


> *If it’s been over a month *— or if you’ve run the DIsk cleanup tool and removed the “Previous Windows installations” files or deleted the C:\Windows.old folder by hand — you’ll no longer see this option. *Windows 10 appears to automatically remove the old Windows installation files after a month to free up space.*


Sneaky! This may explain why the other article sez "permanent".


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## carverman

My Own Advisor said:


> Already on 10 as of this morning. So far, so good.


Was it just a transparent upgrade? No additional downloading of applications or drivers?


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## pwm

For me the upgrade was totally automatic with no intervention required on my part. The PC restarted twice during the install process which took over an hour total time. All my programs and devices work perfectly, although my system is pretty generic. No special hardware with vendor supplied drivers or anything like that.


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## My Own Advisor

pwm said:


> For me the upgrade was totally automatic with no intervention required on my part. The PC restarted twice during the install process which took over an hour total time. All my programs and devices work perfectly, although my system is pretty generic. No special hardware with vendor supplied drivers or anything like that.


Same pwm and caverman. The PC in the morning said to update, so I did!


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## humble_pie

pwm said:


> For me the upgrade was totally automatic with no intervention required on my part.


but you must have pre-enrolled your machine? otherwise it couldn't have been automatic? 

i didn't sign up or enroll, however i got a message that windows 10 had landed something on my machine & was ready to install itself. I'm not taking the invitation up yet, want to wait while others report how fares windows 10.

for its part, whatever the installer thing was, it's laying low very politely & not bothering me at all. You'd think it would buzz & agitate every week or so to get itself installed. But no, it's being a real edwardian gentleman.


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## garreTT

humble_pie said:


> but you must have pre-enrolled your machine? otherwise it couldn't have been automatic?
> 
> i didn't sign up or enroll, however i got a message that windows 10 had landed something on my machine & was ready to install itself. I'm not taking the invitation up yet, want to wait while others report how fares windows 10.
> 
> for its part, whatever the installer thing was, it's laying low very politely & not bothering me at all. You'd think it would buzz & agitate every week or so to get itself installed. But no, it's being a real edwardian gentleman.


Hey Humble,

I just put Windows 10 on my work machine and it's surprisingly better than Windows 7. I find to be much more responsive and less bloated than Windows 7. It depends what you're using it for as everyone uses their computers differently but in my case it's been great. The only issue I had was with an old printer that wasn't communicating to Windows 10 correctly. It wouldn't scan to the networked drive but printing and all other functions were working. 

I'll update any other problems that may occur.


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## Beaver101

*Windows 10 is Here But Microsoft Is Making Users Pay For Classic Game Solitaire*

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/windows-10-microsoft-making-users-112929321.html#gECa3lX... freebie? always a catch of a freebie ... :biggrin:


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## carverman

My Own Advisor said:


> Same pwm and caverman. The PC in the morning said to update, so I did!


Good to know. I remember the hours of downloading applications and drivers to go from XP to Win7. I couldn't believe that MS would be so primitive then, but it's good
to know that they have made a few improvements along the way, although Win 8.0 was not one of them.


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## carverman

Beaver101 said:


> *Windows 10 is Here But Microsoft Is Making Users Pay For Classic Game Solitaire*
> 
> https://ca.news.yahoo.com/windows-10-microsoft-making-users-112929321.html#gECa3lX... freebie? always a catch of a freebie ... :biggrin:





> With the upgrade to Windows 10 itself being offered for free, *it seems that Microsoft is having to seek additional revenue elsewhere*.


Frankly, I'm not surprised, they will come up with some kind of revenue generating gimmicks in the future. 

Heard that they bought SKYPE...it's still free for now, but how long before the bean counters at MS start to think ..hmmm?..maybe we should have a "renewable licence" to use it. Begs the old question.."Is there really a free lunch?"


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## carverman

pwm said:


> For me the upgrade was totally automatic with no intervention required on my part. The PC restarted twice during the install process which took over an hour total time. All my programs and devices work perfectly, although my system is pretty generic. No special hardware with vendor supplied drivers or anything like that.


Well I'm not surprised. MS have complete control of our PC. 
Like the outer Limits TV program many years ago.."do not adjust your set..we will control the vertical, we will control the horizontal".. .just sit back and watch the blinking lights..
this is the Outer Limits.:biggrin:


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## 6811

My PC is telling me to upgrade this morning. Anyone upgraded a Dell (Desktop and Laptop) /Windows 7 Professional yet, and if so any problems?


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## martinv

Completed the upgrade yesterday. I would question calling it an upgrade but that is just me.
Be very careful when you are asked for permissions. The whole idea is to draw you more and more into the microsoft universe and not let you go.
I prefer Google chrome, gmail, picasa etc. I guess I am in the google universe but trying to stay at least a little independent.
Looked at Linux but too daunting for me. Perhaps in the future.
Using windows 10 on a desktop and laptop without touch screen. Not using any of microsoft's apps, just programs.
Now where is that "power off" button? Oh, they moved it again.


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## brad

There are basically three walled garden ecosystems now: Microsoft, Apple, and Google. The walls will only get higher over time -- you just have to choose which garden you most prefer to play in.


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## carverman

martinv said:


> Completed the upgrade yesterday. I would question calling it an upgrade but that is just me.


MS says then that you are "good to go".


> Be very careful when you are asked for permissions. The whole idea is to draw you more and more into the microsoft universe and not let you go.


Ha Ha..that's EXACTLY what they are hoping for with Win 10. After 30 days, they wipe out the old Win7 files so you can't easily go back..unless you start from scratch loading
in Win7 from CD. 


> I prefer Google chrome, gmail, picasa etc. I guess I am in the google universe but trying to stay at least a little independent.


Me too, I don't like their browsers prefer to use Google Chrome, but lately I've had an issue where Google Chrome just freezes on me (Google Chrome not responding) and that is annoying
although it does come back after a couple of minutes. This happens when the Google Chrome is not being used for a while and the screen saver kicks in. Not sure if MS did this
on purpose as they asked me a couple times if I wanted to replace Google Chrome with their browser...I refused. 


> *Using windows 10 on a desktop and laptop without touch screen*. Not using any of microsoft's apps, just programs.
> Now where is that "power off" button? Oh, they moved it again.



They designed Win 8 around touch screens, but there are many users out there that are not using touch screens and didn't like it. I tried it too. So they came out with Win8.1, to put the START feature back in, so that frustrated users could at least still use their old screens. Everytime they make major changes, something pops up that they didn't think of. 

Not sure if this is the BETA version of Win10..it may be, that's probably why it's still free...for now. They want the users out there to debug it for them.


----------



## Beaver101

carverman said:


> Frankly, I'm not surprised, they will come up with some kind of revenue generating gimmicks in the future.
> 
> Heard that they bought SKYPE...it's still free for now, but how long before the bean counters at MS start to think ..hmmm?..maybe we should have a "renewable licence" to use it. Begs the old question.."Is there really a free lunch?"


 ... that can answered by the new question - do you believe in a getting a free lunch? :biggrin: 





> Like the outer Limits TV program many years ago.."do not adjust your set..we will control the vertical, we will control the horizontal".. .just sit back and watch the blinking lights.. * this is the Outer Limits.
> *


 ... just creepy ... aaaaahhhhhh! Windows XP and 7 ain't broken, ain't upgrading.


----------



## Eclectic12

carverman said:


> ... Heard that they bought SKYPE...it's still free for now, but how long before the bean counters at MS start to think ..hmmm?..maybe we should have a "renewable licence" to use it.


Given that they bought in mid-2011, they don't seem to be moving quickly to change the licensing/add new charges.

It may be limited by the competition from Google's free similar programs - Google Talk and Hangouts. Like Skype, these are free computer to computer but where Skype charges to call a POTS, Google's version was free the last I checked.


Until Google changes their model, I suspect Microsoft will view Skype as a nice revenue generator for the POTS calls, as-is.


Cheers


----------



## kcowan

How much does it cost to replace the games and the media player?

How much bandwidth are you willing to give to MS for free?
MS Bandwidth grab

I bet the average users have no clue about these hidden takeaways...


----------



## Eclectic12

I would think there are a lot of open source choices that would work for free.


Cheers


----------



## Sasquatch

I'm quite happy with windows 7 and I will not upgrade to windows 10. 
If they force me to do so at some future date I will look at apple for my computing needs/wants.
Simple as that


----------



## brad

Sasquatch said:


> I'm quite happy with windows 7 and I will not upgrade to windows 10.
> If they force me to do so at some future date I will look at apple for my computing needs/wants.
> Simple as that


It's not that simple. Apple doesn't support its operating systems forever either, and their support cycle tends to be shorter than that of Microsoft. You want to ensure that your computer is still receiving security updates, and if you don't want to update to a newer version of the OS eventually they'll stop providing those updates. You'll be good with Windows 7 until 2020.

I have a 2008 MacBook Pro that is capable of running the current Mac OS (Yosemite), although it's painfully slow. Windows might be better in this regard because the requirements for Windows 10 are the same as for Windows 7: you can run Windows 10 on most older computers that were designed to run Windows 7.


----------



## fatcat

brad said:


> It's not that simple. Apple doesn't support its operating systems forever either, and their support cycle tends to be shorter than that of Microsoft. You want to ensure that your computer is still receiving security updates, and if you don't want to update to a newer version of the OS eventually they'll stop providing those updates. You'll be good with Windows 7 until 2020.
> 
> I have a 2008 MacBook Pro that is capable of running the current Mac OS (Yosemite), although it's painfully slow. Windows might be better in this regard because the requirements for Windows 10 are the same as for Windows 7: you can run Windows 10 on most older computers that were designed to run Windows 7.


apple is much worse for planned obsolescence of their operating systems vis a vis the underlying hardware (operating systems are now free of course) but their typical customer is more willing to spend on technology and so they will upgrade (their hardware) more regularly

windows is much more widely deployed and so microsoft must serve a broader audience who are more reticent about upgrades, also i think apple makes upgrading easier though windows 10 may be changing that

i have been running windows 10 on my mac and i think it's a very good operating system


----------



## kcowan

Brad are you sure that you are just not memory constrained? That is usually why new releases run slower. I always buy way more storage that they require because it is cheap at the time of purchase.


----------



## brad

kcowan said:


> Brad are you sure that you are just not memory constrained? That is usually why new releases run slower. I always buy way more storage that they require because it is cheap at the time of purchase.


That might be it, but my model has a max capacity of 6 GB and that's what I've got in there. My 2011 iMac is a much more powerful machine in general and I've got 12 gigs of RAM in there so it should be good for several more OS updates.


----------



## carverman

fraser said:


> I am running 7. It is just fine.
> 
> Microsoft has about the worst reputation for quality assurance in the industry. Is there a particular reason why I should upgrade that I am not aware of?
> 
> Why would I take a chance on 10 when 7 meets my needs?


Exactly. There seems to be a lot of hype on users "needing" to upgrade to Win 10 spearheaded by MS because of the reluctance of users wanting to switch to newer
versions. There have been some instances in the past where MS has literally flopped with their new offering..like Vista and Win8.0 that was designed mainly for ipads.

Perhaps that they may have learned from their mistakes? ..or perhaps this is just another scheme to get as many users as possible switched over to Win10 to expand their
user base to allow them to continue unrolling their business plan of flooding the market, as the sales of desktops is rapidly dropping off compared to iphones..
and perhaps they see the writing on the wall, that if they don't get users hooked now with Win10, it may be too late for them in the future.

Without a touch screen laptop, I really don't see where Win10 is going to be beneficial to users like myself, who still prefer to type on a keyboard and use a mouse.
But for the new generation out there that just want to use their finger, text or even speak into their iphone...it makes more sense.


----------



## carverman

brad said:


> You'll be good with Windows 7 until 2020.


That doesn't mean that the Win 7 copy of the OS on your laptop or desktop will stop working after that, it just means that they don't plan on supporting it with upgrades after 2020.

That's still another 5 years from now, and they are speculating that by then, most users will have upgraded their laptops/desktops to a better product out there, and they are hoping
that by offering free Win10 (at least for now), they can establish a large enough user base that it won't flop on them. 

Latest I heard is that they have over 14 million users of Win10.

Now if you think of that in terms of that in lieu of licence revenue lost (14 million free copies)...you have to wonder if it's a game of survival first for them.

*EDIT*: With the auto-makers all going to touch screen over the end of this decade, there is a big market for MS and Apple and perhaps other OS vendors
to get a big chunk of that market..but unfortunately, just like home computers, these new features are not hacker proof. 

Recently there was a hacking attempt (as a demonstration that more software security is needed), some Chrysler models were "broken into",
and the hackers took control of the car.
That is scary. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/h...ng-jeep-on-highway-in-security-demo-1.3162944

All Chrysler management could say in their rather naive approach is .."they shouldn't be doing that..that is against the law"....LOL!

*BTW..CBC news reporter mentioned "they can disable the brakes'.*.that is not quite true. The basic hydraulic brakes system in modern vehicles is and must
be independent of the PCM. The ABS controller though, is an addon system (antilock brakes) that can be disabled from the PCM data link bus.
If that should happen, or their is a fault in the ABS system, the ABS light and "brake" light will come on, but you can still stop with the conventional
hydraulic braking system..you just one have the ABS feature.

The hackers can disable the ignition, since it is controlled by the PCM and that could lead to a loss of control, similar to the faulty ignition locks that were
installed on some GM models a while back.


----------



## brad

carverman said:


> That doesn't mean that the Win 7 copy of the OS on your laptop or desktop will stop working after that, it just means that they don't plan on supporting it with upgrades after 2020.


It's not so much the "upgrades" that's a problem, it's the security updates. Unless third-party anti-malware providers can protect your Windows 7 computer after 2020, you'll be entering very risky territory.


----------



## carverman

brad said:


> It's not so much the "upgrades" that's a problem, it's the security updates. Unless third-party anti-malware providers can protect your Windows 7 computer after 2020, you'll be entering very risky territory.


I'm sure the MalwareBytes will be able to protect me. They are charging $30 (Cdn) for a 1 year licence same as the anti-virus vendors. My licensed version checks for updates
each time it runs.


----------



## kcowan

So aside from using your bandwidth without your permission, and harvesting your data for nefarious reasons, and once again forcing you to use their new Edge browser without your permission, have you found anything really bad about MS Win10?

You might want to read Windows 10: Microsoft under attack over privacy
and Windows 10 Is Spying On You
and Windows 10's New Feature Steals Your Internet Bandwidth! :upset:


----------



## fatcat

kcowan said:


> So aside from using your bandwidth without your permission, and harvesting your data for nefarious reasons, and once again forcing you to use their new Edge browser without your permission, have you found anything really bad about MS Win10?
> 
> You might want to read Windows 10: Microsoft under attack over privacy
> and Windows 10 Is Spying On You
> and Windows 10's New Feature Steals Your Internet Bandwidth! :upset:


the guardian article is a little chilling since it attaches a unique id to your email address

this cannot be erased (though apparently this can all be turned off by the user) like cookies which will allow a very complete profile of your interests for the purposes of ad serving


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

You get nothing for nothing in this world. When you get the product (Windows 10) for free, the product is you. In Windows 10 all your information is open to Microsoft and they will sell it.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230455

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230462


----------



## Beaver101

^ Including bank information?!


----------



## carverman

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Including bank information?!


No I don't believe so. When you access your bank accounts, you do on a secure link (HTTPS) the "S" indicates it's a secure link. 

Just don't EVER store your banking passwords on your computer, because if the hackers find it, they will clean you out.


----------



## fraser

I am staying with 7. Have yet to see a convincing argument, given my requirements, on why I would want to upgrade.

7 is working just fine for me. Besides, I am spending more and more time on the ipad. 

Not a Microsoft fan in general....they have a poor record when it comes to QA and bugs.


----------



## OhGreatGuru

When auto manufacturers replace/repair a lemon it's called "recalling a defective product".

When Microsoft does, it's called a "free upgrade".

Spin is everything.


----------



## bobsander

i have also reserved my copy, and now it is available for download


----------



## MrPCMan

I'm in the queue, but waiting to see how it rolls out and performs, before I install. I am a bit of an early adopter when it comes to Technology...I am currently running Win7 Pro which has worked flawlessly for me. But I am curious on how the OS has changed.


----------



## brad

MrPCMan said:


> I'm in the queue, but waiting to see how it rolls out and performs, before I install. I am a bit of an early adopter when it comes to Technology...I am currently running Win7 Pro which has worked flawlessly for me. But I am curious on how the OS has changed.


I'm still in the queue as well. One thing that would make it worthwhile to me: Windows 10 has a built-in PDF creator! Finally. It only took Microsoft 14 years to catch up to the Mac in this regard, which has had a built-in PDF creator since OSX first came out in 2001. 

The security issues can be resolved in about five minutes by changing settings in one menu; there are instructions everywhere now for how to prevent Microsoft from using your computer to serve updates to strangers, etc.


----------



## tygrus

Apparently the new business model for windows is to offer it all free including support and then punish your eyeballs with insidious ads right in the op system apps. Might give google a run for the ad money pot now.


----------



## brad

tygrus said:


> Apparently the new business model for windows is to offer it all free including support and then punish your eyeballs with insidious ads right in the op system apps. Might give google a run for the ad money pot now.


As far as I know the only app that has ads is Solitaire.


----------



## Spudd

I have had Windows 10 for a few days, haven't seen any ads (haven't played Solitaire either, though). 

They did install Candy Crush Saga without my permission, though. I wasn't too impressed by that, but it only took 2 clicks to uninstall.


----------



## kcowan

Nice tutorial to restore privacy:

Restoring Windows 10 Privacy


----------



## brad

I installed it last week -- the installation process was a little rocky (Windows said "you can expect a 10-second verification process" but it took six hours), and then I got caught in an endless reboot due to a BAD_POOL_HEADER error. I tried lots of different things, but the reboots kept happening before the system was fully loaded. After about 60 reboots, I replaced my wireless mouse with a wired mouse and that solved the problem...for a while. The endless reboots are back as of today. I don't think these are due to the Windows 10 automatic update that caused some people's systems to reboot endlessly, but it's hard to diagnose because the reboot starts within 5-6 seconds after I log in.

I had been considering switching from Mac to Windows as my main operating system, because I didn't want to lock myself into a premium ecosystem of products as I get closer to retirement. But after 60+ reboots and arcane error messages, I'm not so sure. :apathy:


----------



## carverman

brad said:


> I installed it last week -- the installation process was a little rocky (Windows said "you can expect a 10-second verification process" *but it took six hours*), and then I got caught in an *endless reboot due to a BAD_POOL_HEADER error.*


6 hrs..that's about what it took me to go from XP to Win7....so I'm not going through that misery again.

Sounds like you got some kind of corruption in your computer.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-1653072/fix-bad-pool-header-error-windows.html



> The endless reboots are back as of today. I don't think these are due to the *Windows 10 automatic update that caused some people's systems to reboot endlessly*, but it's hard to diagnose because the reboot starts within 5-6 seconds after I log in.


Not much time to troubleshoot anything.



> I had been considering switching from Mac to Windows as my main operating system, because I didn't want to lock myself into a premium ecosystem of products as I get closer to retirement. But after 60+ reboots and arcane error messages, I'm not so sure. :apathy:


Sounds like you may have to go back to Win8.1? and start over? What kind of antivirus are you running? 


Microsoft...what can you say? There's a reason they offer it for free.


----------



## nathan79

I gave up trying to install it on my desktop. It kept hanging up at "configuring settings" and reverting back to Windows 7 (a common issue from what I've read). Most likely a hardware issue, so I'll wait a while for a more updated version.

Installed no problem on my six year old netbook -- go figure.


----------



## carverman

nathan79 said:


> I gave up trying to install it on my desktop. It kept hanging up at "configuring settings" and reverting back to Windows 7 (a common issue from what I've read). Most likely a hardware issue, so I'll wait a while for a more updated version.
> 
> Installed no problem on my six year old netbook -- go figure.


You pretty much have to install clean. When you upgrade, any kind of problem that was not apparent with the old OS seems to come out in the forefront with the new upgrade. 
Windows has to replace the old registry with the new registry and rebuild everything on the upgrade. 
Any thing that is not compatible with Win 10 can cause an issue, such as hardware drivers if they are too old and need upgrading as well.

Were you able to go back to Win7?
Did you take an backup image of any critical files first before attempting the upgrade to Win10?


----------



## andrewf

I am a big fan of clean installs of the OS. I experienced 'upgrades' and they never seem to go smoothly. Even with mobile devices, sometimes it is better to do a system restore, then allow the device to upgrade to the latest version before adding any customizations.


----------



## humble_pie

many thankx to all who post here. It's really generous & thoughtful of all who take the time to report their experiences.

there are enough messages re trouble that, for now, i'm planning to stick with the suggestion of the poster who said he'll wait until he buys his next machine, it'll come with windows 10 pre-installed.


----------



## martinv

Just read the following on Forbes. Talk about "Big Brother".

Then again the EULA itself (which customers never read) is so broad it basically gives Microsoft the freedom to do whatever it wants. Notably this section on privacy reads:

“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary”

All of which means Windows 10 has the right to install whatever it wants on your system without notice and to read and disclose all your personal information and files when it sees fit – even with files you place in private folders.

Of course these rules should be in place only for worst case scenarios, but the silent change to Windows app updates shows Microsoft has now set a precedent for doing what it likes when it likes…


----------



## Daniel A.

I uninstalled Windows 10 today.

It would not recognize my security Kaspersky nor would it allow my printer to work, also my uploads from my camera it put them in a new folder that did not allow me to resize with office so I'm done with Windows 10.
Changing back to Windows 7 was easy and all my stuff was there.

And yes all my software is current and up to date.
I just don't have the patience to sit and spend hours trying to get things running that ran fine before. 

Next computer I think I'm going to get an Apple and be done with Windows.


----------



## brad

Daniel A. said:


> Next computer I think I'm going to get an Apple and be done with Windows.


For what it's worth, the last time I had to reboot my Mac due to a system crash was in 2002, in the early days of OSX. There are advantages to the so-called "walled garden" but there are costs as well.


----------



## carverman

martinv said:


> Just read the following on Forbes. Talk about "Big Brother".
> 
> 
> 
> All of which *means Windows 10 has the right to install whatever it wants on your system without notice *and to read and disclose all your personal information and files when it sees fit – even with files you place in private folders.
> 
> Of course these rules should be in place only for worst case scenarios, but the silent change to Windows app updates shows Microsoft has now set a precedent for doing what it likes when it likes…


Microsoft does that all the time to install updates and then do a restart on my computer. About the only way to prevent that is to turn off the computer. If you do,
Microsoft will nag you to do the updates while you are using it..or when ever you decide to turn off the computer. It is basically the "arrangement" between you the licence-see
and them...you own the hardware, they own the OS version that you are using, if they still support it and you don't have much choice in the matter.


----------



## carverman

Daniel A. said:


> I uninstalled Windows 10 today.


Another 'satisfied" user of free Windows 10 :biggrin: ..now you know why they offered it for free. If it was totally debugged to upgrade transparently on user systems, they would be charging for it.
Lots of interaction problems that they can't debug in their development environment, so now somebody came up with the bright idea of giving it out (beta version)for free (for now), and letting the users debug it and get frustrated with all kinds of issues and "blue screens of death" as they call it.



> It would not recognize my security Kaspersky nor would it allow my printer to work, also my uploads from my camera it put them in a new folder that did not allow me to resize with office so I'm done with Windows 10.
> Changing back to Windows 7 was easy and all my stuff was there.


 This is the main issue with these supposedly "seamless upgrades', it all depends on what you have running on your system. kapersky or AVG or Norton or Avast,
then there is the compatibilty issues with installed hardware and the hardware drivers (software) that needs updating and you probably need to buy a $29.99
software tool to upgrade the drivers..and thats only some of the issues.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows/preview-faq

Good that at least you were able to go back without any issues. I take backup images of mine with an external hard drive...in case the computer hard drive or the motherboard bites it where you can't recover any files without having to take it to a specialist. . Haven't had the need to use it but having backup to any critical files, even if they are on USB flash drive, which are really cheap now..16-32GB, is peace of mind. You can find USB 3.0 32GB flash drives now for around $35 in some stores. 



> I just don't have the patience to sit and spend hours trying to get things running that ran fine before.


I remember the saying we used at Nortel.."if it ain't broke..don't fix it!" In spite of extensive lab testing, many bugs (or shortcomings) got out in the field which required
remedial patches and those patches sometimes caused other issues to appear.

If your Win 7 or 8.1 is stable...why mess around with it with "free upgrades" that are bound to cause instability and "blue screens of death"?
These blue screen can be a serious OS issue that may be very hard to debug, as the information given on the blue screen message is very cryptic, and to the user..meaningless.

*here's why.*.

In the updated MS14-045 and other supporting documents, Microsoft said it had removed the patches from its Download Center. *As of Saturday, however, the flawed update was still being pushed by Windows Update, Microsoft's service for delivering patches to PCs.*



> "Microsoft is investigating behavior associated with the installation of this update, and will update this bulletin when more information becomes available," the company said in the revised MS14-045's Update FAQ. "Microsoft recommends that *customers uninstall this update. As an added precaution, Microsoft has removed the download links to the 2982791 security update."*
> 
> Microsoft's advice, however, may not be of any help to those already afflicted. It told users, for example,* to boot using Safe Mode, which many on the support thread said didn't work.*


This is an example of how users can get into trouble with any "free upgrades'..Win 10 is still in development and unstable with " a few bugs" that will surface on your computer.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...to-uninstall-blue-screen-of-death-update.html


----------



## andrewf

In my admittedly limited experience with OSX, it has locked up on me multiple times. This was on iMacs administered as part of my university's network, so maybe they had done something to make them unstable.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

carverman said:


> .."if it ain't broke..don't fix it!"


^+1


----------



## carverman

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ^+1


When it's free.. and you don't have to buy a licence for it..amazing how many people think it will be better than what they already have.

Flawed update patches from MS..naw..how could that be?:barbershop_quartet_


----------



## brad

andrewf said:


> In my admittedly limited experience with OSX, it has locked up on me multiple times. This was on iMacs administered as part of my university's network, so maybe they had done something to make them unstable.


That's probably it -- since Macs run on Unix, a lot of Unix geeks (who mostly work at universities) do a lot of tinkering under the hood; I know Unix people who buy Macs but use the command line exclusively and never interact with the GUI. I work with a lot of Mac users who also use Windows, and I often hear them say that they've never had a system crash on MacOSX (OS9 crashed all the time), but they have to reboot Windows regularly. I've found Windows 7 to be just as stable as OSX, though; I've been using Windows 7 for more than 2 years and have never had a system crash.


----------



## peterk

Good thread. I'm going to hold off. My laptop is 4 years old with Windows 7 and I'm skeptical that everything will go smoothly in the transition. My girlfriend did the free update and it seems to be working fine on her newer Windows 8 machine though.

If oil ever turns around I will use some of my sweet-*** profits to buy a new Windows 10 laptop in 2016. :biggrin:


----------



## sags

Add me to the list who uninstalled Windows 10...........had it for about 2 hours and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

Besides all the stuff that didn't work properly and the generally befuddled design, my sunset version of Money wouldn't open in Windows 10.


----------



## Beaver101

I'm not even going to waste a minute attempting an install - wait until my machine dies and then have no choice ... taking approach similar to the peterk's method. :tranquillity:


----------



## bgc_fan

I am not sure why anyone would rush the upgrade as extended support is available until 2020. Plenty of time for the computer to be replaced if needed. Then again I still have a 10 year old notebook and a 7 year old netbook.


----------



## Beaver101

^ 10 year old notebook? That's pretty long life -what operating systems is it on? and how is the internet connection?


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion

Beaver101 said:


> ^ 10 year old notebook? That's pretty long life -what operating systems is it on? and how is the internet connection?


That is getting 'long on the tooth'. We have an Inspiron 1525 that is 8yrs old, running Vista. Works fine but not our primary laptop now. Gave the SIL our older (perhaps 10yrs?) Inspiron that runs XP. Also have newer Win7 and Win8 laptops but may have reached the end of the road (i.e. not interested in Win10). Oh, and there's the Win95 desktop that get turned on 3 or 4 times a year.


----------



## cashinstinct

Upgrade is free for now, but might not be forever:



> The free upgrade is only available for the first year. Microsoft has yet to announce the software's price for the upgrade after that one-year window


http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-to-deliver-free-windows-10-upgrades/

It could be a reason to do it sooner than later, after doing research on the + / - of Windows 10.

They could change their mind and make it free forever, who knows.


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ^ 10 year old notebook? That's pretty long life -what operating systems is it on? and how is the internet connection?


I don't really use it for anything other than tax software. It's my only MS based computer running XP. As with anything, the responsiveness to web surfing is slow due to all the junk that is being used. Once Ufile stops supporting XP, I'll end up dropping it. I may consider wiping it and installing a Linux flavour to add to the rest of my computers.



cashinstinct said:


> Upgrade is free for now, but might not be forever:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-to-deliver-free-windows-10-upgrades/
> 
> It could be a reason to do it sooner than later, after doing research on the + / - of Windows 10.
> 
> They could change their mind and make it free forever, who knows.


The thing is MS has been somewhat cagey about their revenue plans, i.e. it might end up to be a subscription plan to continue with updates. MS had stated outright that unless you keep installing all future updates, you will stop receiving security patches, it's an all or nothing approach. 

They've also booked the "free" Win10 upgrade as a marketing/promotional thing, so you can be sure that there will be added costs sooner or later. In the meantime, you can stick with Win7 for the regular old support for another 5 years, and then the hardware you have will probably be obsolete, or you can simply install Linux on it.


----------



## Eder

I put W10 on a week ago...installed great,runs everything flawlessly and I like it...guess I'm the only one though.


----------



## 6811

Eder said:


> I put W10 on a week ago...installed great,runs everything flawlessly and I like it...guess I'm the only one though.


Yabbut what did you upgrade from (windows XP, 7, or 8) and what's your HW platform?


----------



## pwm

You're not alone. I've had Win 10 since July 30 and I'm very happy with it. It installed without any problems and it runs faster than Win 8.1. It will be deleting the WINDOWS.OLD folder soon and I'm looking forward to getting the space back on my HD. No reason to ever want to go back to Win 8.1.

I find it amazing that some people will find any reason possible to NOT take advantage of a free OS upgrade.


----------



## 1980z28

I use 7 pro

What will 10 do


----------



## Beaver101

pwm said:


> You're not alone. I've had Win 10 since July 30 and I'm very happy with it. It installed without any problems and it runs faster than Win 8.1. It will be deleting the WINDOWS.OLD folder soon and I'm looking forward to getting the space back on my HD. No reason to ever want to go back to Win 8.1.
> 
> *I find it amazing that some people will find any reason possible to NOT take advantage of a free OS upgrade*.


 ... paying for Solitaire? :biggrin: and what else eventually? and then another upgrade to Win11, then 12, then Win ∞.

Actually, can't afford any downtime for non-nerd.


----------



## sags

As I posted, Windows 10 wouldn't open the Microsoft Money Sunset version.

A lot of people use MM as a simple chequebook type of ledger. It works well for that purpose as it remembers entries and it allows transactions into the future.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a simple alternative software program for Money. 

http://www.tenforums.com/software-apps/8399-microsoft-money-not-working-build-10240-a.html

From what I have read the WINDOWS.OLD file will delete itself automatically 30 days after the Windows 10 install.

Anyone who downloads Windows 10 has those 30 days to uninstall and revert back to their previous OS.


----------



## MrMatt

sags said:


> As I posted, Windows 10 wouldn't open the Microsoft Money Sunset version.
> 
> A lot of people use MM as a simple chequebook type of ledger. It works well for that purpose as it remembers entries and it allows transactions into the future.
> 
> Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a simple alternative software program for Money.
> .


Moneydance


----------



## Eder

6811 said:


> Yabbut what did you upgrade from (windows XP, 7, or 8) and what's your HW platform?


I upgraded from Win7 on a ~2 year old Asus notebook


----------



## pwm

Apparently the windows.old folder will be automatically deleted one month after the upgrade date. I did my upgrade on July 30 and just out of curiosity I thought I would wait to see if it got deleted. As of Sept 01, it's still there, as is the settings option to revert to windows 8.1. I'm wondering how long it will take. I know I can delete it manually by doing a disk cleanup of system files, but just for fun I wanted to see if it would go away by itself. I wonder what constitutes a month. 28 days? 30 days?

For those who have upgraded their PCs to Win 10: Did your windows.old folder go away by itself?


----------



## Ag Driver

Deleted.


----------



## pwm

I know the process, but I wanted to see if it would happen automatically.


----------



## Ag Driver

Deleted.


----------



## pwm

Thanks for the tip Ag Driver. If the old version doesn't go away soon, I'll remove it myself. The reason I want it gone is that I want to create a system image backup and I'd prefer not to include the 16.7 GB in windows.old.


----------



## brad

Ditto on the thanks for the tip! Removing that temp file freed up about 30 gigabytes of space, which I needed.

Despite my early problems with Windows 10 it now seems to be stable and I really like it.


----------



## MrMatt

I did have to uninstall and reinstall my touchpad driver to get 2 finger scrolling to work, but otherwise I'm really liking it.
Edge isn't as good as chrome, but the onenote integration is pretty nice.

I don't quite understand how onenote works though.


----------



## brad

Edge has been pretty unpopular so far, but you can always keep Chrome as your default browser. I spent about 5 minutes using Edge and then went back to Chrome and I think that's probably true for most people based on the statistics I've seen.

OneNote is kind of like Evernote: people assume it's a note-taking app, but that's the least of its abilities. It's really more of an organizing tool and a one-stop shop for things you want to save for future reference. I've been using it at work for years to help keep me organized and would find it hard to work without it: I have tabs set up for each of the projects I work on, with subtabs for key info that I need to refer to regularly or occasionally: budget info, cost assumptions, important emails from clients, meeting notes, snippets of text that I need to refer to or use regularly, etc.


----------



## sags

From what I have been reading, there is a big debate on how intrusive Windows 10 is designed to be.

Some software has been developed that claims to ferret out all the hidden places Microsoft harvests information, but it is not licenced software so buyer beware.

I will wait until the debate is resolved before downloading it again.


----------



## bgc_fan

You may want to look at this article on CBC regarding privacy or lack thereof with Windows 10.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/technology/windows-10-1.3223168


----------



## pwm

Google Chrome has been giving me problems lately. It goes into a "not responding" state and needs to be killed and restarted. It seems to happen mostly when I'm closing a tab. I can't remember this happening before I upgraded to Windows 10. I've done some searches and there are lots of problems with Chrome freezing. For me it seems to be related to Windows because it's never happened to my Chrome browser running under Linux Mint. I have the current version which is 45.0.2454.101 m. Not sure if I have the 32 or 64 bit Chrome as it doesn't tell me anywhere I can see. 

Anyone else running Windows 10 and Chrome? Does it ever go into a "not responding" state?


----------



## Spudd

Mine was running really slowly and occasionally not responding. I ran CCleaner on it, and now it's back to behaving nicely.


----------



## andrewf

pwm said:


> Google Chrome has been giving me problems lately. It goes into a "not responding" state and needs to be killed and restarted. It seems to happen mostly when I'm closing a tab. I can't remember this happening before I upgraded to Windows 10. I've done some searches and there are lots of problems with Chrome freezing. For me it seems to be related to Windows because it's never happened to my Chrome browser running under Linux Mint. I have the current version which is 45.0.2454.101 m. Not sure if I have the 32 or 64 bit Chrome as it doesn't tell me anywhere I can see.
> 
> Anyone else running Windows 10 and Chrome? Does it ever go into a "not responding" state?


I've been experiencing the same thing for the last week or so. Hopefully they patch this quickly.


----------



## brad

andrewf said:


> I've been experiencing the same thing for the last week or so. Hopefully they patch this quickly.


I haven't had any problems with Chrome on my new Surface Pro 3 that came with Windows 10 installed. But I've been having lots of other problems: the computer randomly switches the resolution on my monitor to a very low setting (640 by 480, when the native resolution is 1920 by 1080), some apps repeatedly ask me to reactivate them, other apps fail to launch at all or launch after several minutes, Windows 10 itself keeps asking me to confirm my identity, the Mail app no longer connects to my contacts and I have to copy and paste them by hand into the address bar when composing email messages, and on and on. And this is on a machine that had Windows 10 factory installed; it's not like it was upgraded from an earlier version.

All of this makes me feel like Windows 10 still isn't quite ready for prime time. I'm switching back to my Mac for the next six months or so until things settle down.


----------



## andrewf

Sorry, to clarify, I am still running Windows 8.1 on this machine. I think it is a chrome issue... windows is working just fine. It may even be a extension that is not playing nice, but I've already taken out all but 2 commonly used ones.


----------



## MrMatt

I'm really finding Windows 10 great, if you have 8 it's a no brainer upgrade.


----------



## denik1

I use Windows 10 - this is better than Windows 8, but more worst than Windows 7, rly
This minimalistic desigh cut down


----------



## pwm

Chrome froze 5 times yesterday and again already today. I'm using Edge now to try it out.


----------



## fraser

I am on 7. Have no intention of migrating to 10...unclear of why this is a good thing and very wary of anything 'free' from Microsoft. They are not known for their generousity.


----------



## agent99

fraser said:


> I am on 7. Have no intention of migrating to 10...unclear of why this is a good thing and very wary of anything 'free' from Microsoft. They are not known for their generousity.


I have same feeling. But I am curious enough to try Win10. I have had every other version except for 8/8.1.

What I would like to do, is set up dual booting. My Lenovo laptop has ability to run 2 or even 3 hard drives (if DVD is removed). So thinking about cloning existing Win 7 SSD to almost empty 250gig original internal drive. Then do an upgrade to Win10 on the original drive. 

What I would like is for the two versions to be synchronized. Probably will anyway if my main docs are on cloud and emails use IMAP?


----------



## pwm

I've been following a thread on the Google product forums where people are suggesting that IBM's Trusteer Rapport may be causing Chrome to freeze. I have Rapport installed in Chrome. For those who are getting the "Chrome is not responding" situation: Do you have the Trusteer Rapport extension installed and active in Chrome?


----------



## brad

agent99 said:


> I have same feeling. But I am curious enough to try Win10. I have had every other version except for 8/8.1.
> 
> What I would like to do, is set up dual booting.


You can upgrade to Windows 10 and still revert back to Windows 7 if you do it within a month of the upgrade. That would be simpler than maintaining both and going back and forth. You'll never really get used to Windows 10 if you always have that comfortable Windows 7 to turn back to -- to really know whether you like the new OS you have to use it exclusively for a few weeks and see what issues crop up.

I don't find Windows 10 to be remarkably different from Windows 7 -- the main visual difference is that the start menu includes a section for live tiles, but you can turn that off easily if you don't like it and have a Windows 7-style start menu instead.

Windows 7 has a half-functional windows snapping feature: if you press the Windows key and the left arrow key, your active window will snap to the left of the screen, so you effectively have a split screen. But you can't snap to the right. In Windows 10, it's executed fully: Windows+left arrow snaps a window to the left, and then you click on whatever other open window you want to have snap to the right so you can view a split screen with two windows filling it. And you can adjust the split. This is really handy, it's like having two monitors in one. You can even split it four ways if you want to.

The other big improvement for me in Windows 10, which sounds minor but it's a big deal in my book, is that there's a built-in PDF rendering engine. You don't have to use any third-party PDF creation software. The Mac has had this for 12 years now, but Windows finally added it as well, and it's really useful.

So far the main issues I've found are that the Windows 10 Mail app is very buggy, prone to crashing, and has pretty limited options. I've experienced quite a few bugs in general, but so far I haven't had a system crash. My guess is that stability will improve and bugs will diminish over the next six months. Windows 10 was a rush job and still feels unfinished in spots, but overall I agree with the positive reviews that this is the best version of Windows yet.


----------



## agent99

brad said:


> You can upgrade to Windows 10 and still revert back to Windows 7 if you do it within a month of the upgrade. That would be simpler than maintaining both and going back and forth. You'll never really get used to Windows 10 if you always have that comfortable Windows 7 to turn back to -- to really know whether you like the new OS you have to use it exclusively for a few weeks and see what issues crop up.


I don't see why using it *exclusively *would be better than testing on a dual boot installation.

No way I am going to do an upgrade until I am 100% sure it won't create problems. And I do expect some of my old software will be problematical, so not giving up on Win 7 yet. Having a dual boot situation provides best of both worlds (have dual boot of XP/Linux on my old desktop still) Eventually, if I do go to Win 10, I would rather do a clean install rather than an upgrade anyway.


----------



## kcowan

Maybe you thought you had turned off all the privacy issues?

It seems that MS is determined to make money off of you. Not a completely free upgrade?


----------



## zylon

Michael Rivero talks about his experience with installing Windows 10 onto a donated laptop.

-starts at 1:29
https://youtu.be/WJJGfd8IqTE?t=1h29m6s


----------



## Barwelle

brad said:


> Windows 7 has a half-functional windows snapping feature: if you press the Windows key and the left arrow key, your active window will snap to the left of the screen, so you effectively have a split screen. But you can't snap to the right. In Windows 10, it's executed fully: Windows+left arrow snaps a window to the left, and then you click on whatever other open window you want to have snap to the right so you can view a split screen with two windows filling it. And you can adjust the split. This is really handy, it's like having two monitors in one. You can even split it four ways if you want to.


Thanks for mentioning this brad... I split screens a lot between two documents/spreadsheets, and have been doing it manually - will be handy to have a shortcut for this.

Though it works for me to snap to both left and right of the screen, and I'm on Win 7. I'd suggest maybe your shortcuts got screwed up somehow.


----------



## brad

Barwelle said:


> Thanks for mentioning this brad... I split screens a lot between two documents/spreadsheets, and have been doing it manually - will be handy to have a shortcut for this.
> 
> Though it works for me to snap to both left and right of the screen, and I'm on Win 7. I'd suggest maybe your shortcuts got screwed up somehow.


Oddly enough I think this got fixed at some point in Windows 7: it definitely wasn't working for me for awhile, but now it works perfectly. I don't think you can do a four-way split in Windows 7 like you can in Windows 10, but I don't have any reason to do a four-way split so it's no big deal. The only difference in Windows 10 is that once you snap a window to the left, it shows you all your other windows so you can choose which one to have snapped to the right. In Windows 7 you have to do it more manually.

I really love that shortcut, it saves me a lot of time. Apple copied it in El Capitan (the latest version of OSX) and it's a killer feature on both platforms.


----------



## andrewf

I have Win 7 on the machine I am typing on right now, and it supports start-left and start-right for snapping windows to half screen. Maybe it was a bug that was fixed.


----------



## RBull

I installed it about a week ago and removed it a couple of days later. I'm running windows 7 on a ~5 year old laptop with office 2003 which works fine. 

10 wouldn't let my printer work and removed my calculator amongst other gadgets. I searched and found out how to get back the old calculator. It was also noticeably slower and there seemed to be some compatibility issues with office 2003 since its no longer supported, and I'm sure was designed for this to create forced updates. Even after removing and reinstalling 7 there was no way I could get my printer to work after windows 10 having been on it. I switched it up with another laser from the other computer and both are working now on the different computers. 

I don't like the direction Microsoft is going in with subscriber based and cloud stuff. I want simple, cheap, lower tech with far less features in an operating system and software.


----------



## zylon

RBull said:


> ... Even after removing and reinstalling 7 there was no way I could get my printer to work after windows 10 having been on it. I switched it up with another laser from the other computer and both are working now on the different computers.


Too late for *RBull*, but for anyone else unhappy with windows 10, there is an option to "roll back" to windows 7. The option is only good for 30 days, and according to Rivero it works flawlessly.

The short segment starts at 1:30:40 as linked.
https://youtu.be/LkG8aOYaI5U?t=1h30m33s


----------



## brad

RBull said:


> I don't like the direction Microsoft is going in with subscriber based and cloud stuff. I want simple, cheap, lower tech with far less features in an operating system and software.


You might be interested in Elementary OS, which is Linux with a user-friendly interface: https://elementary.io

It'll run just fine on older PCs.

I wouldn't be able to use something like this now because I rely too heavily on Microsoft Office at work and at home, but someday I'd like to switch to something like this.


----------



## fatcat

brad said:


> You might be interested in Elementary OS, which is Linux with a user-friendly interface: https://elementary.io
> 
> It'll run just fine on older PCs.
> 
> I wouldn't be able to use something like this now because I rely too heavily on Microsoft Office at work and at home, but someday I'd like to switch to something like this.


thanks for that, i am looking at a chromebook and i would like to drop elementary in there and try a dual boot, never heard of this ...


----------



## agent99

zylon said:


> Too late for *RBull*, but for anyone else unhappy with windows 10, there is an option to "roll back" to windows 7. The option is only good for 30 days, and according to Rivero it works flawlessly.


Isn't that what RBull likely did? Short of a total reinstall of all software, how would he have moved back to Win7 and why would it still affect his printer? Maybe he will let us know.

I have Win 10 running on my old laptop and Win 7 on my newer laptop. Really see no plusses for Win10 and several negatives. I was able to get rid of those annoying Win 10 popups telling me I should upgrade. To be honest, I forget which method I used but I don't get them any more.


----------



## RBull

zylon said:


> Too late for *RBull*, but for anyone else unhappy with windows 10, there is an option to "roll back" to windows 7. The option is only good for 30 days, and according to Rivero it works flawlessly.
> 
> The short segment starts at 1:30:40 as linked.
> https://youtu.be/LkG8aOYaI5U?t=1h30m33s


Have another read of my post. It's pretty clear I switched back to windows 7 within a few days.


----------



## RBull

brad said:


> You might be interested in Elementary OS, which is Linux with a user-friendly interface: https://elementary.io
> 
> It'll run just fine on older PCs.
> 
> I wouldn't be able to use something like this now because I rely too heavily on Microsoft Office at work and at home, but someday I'd like to switch to something like this.


Thanks for that. I'll check it out. I'm retired so my needs are generally simple now. The biggest issue for me is compatibility if I want to download a spreadsheet someone has done in newer MS software.


----------



## RBull

agent99 said:


> Isn't that what RBull likely did? Short of a total reinstall of all software, how would he have moved back to Win7 and why would it still affect his printer? Maybe he will let us know.
> 
> I have Win 10 running on my old laptop and Win 7 on my newer laptop. Really see no plusses for Win10 and several negatives. I was able to get rid of those annoying Win 10 popups telling me I should upgrade. To be honest, I forget which method I used but I don't get them any more.


You're correct. 

Our desktop at home couldn't be upgraded anyhow due to the graphics card. 

My W10 notifications have "seemed" to stop and I notice the icon is gone from my desktop. I'm not sure what I did. Tried to drag it to recycle bin and it disappeared somewhere along the way.


----------



## brad

RBull said:


> Thanks for that. I'll check it out. I'm retired so my needs are generally simple now. The biggest issue for me is compatibility if I want to download a spreadsheet someone has done in newer MS software.


Compatibility is the big issue with Linux. Yes, there's Libre Office but compatibility with MS Office is never perfect with anything but MS Office. But it depends on the complexity of the Word doc or Excel file. If it's simple, you'll have no problems -- you can use Libre Office (a free office suite) or you can use Chrome as your browser and import Word and Excel files into Google Docs/Sheets.

I've tried using Google Docs and some of the free office suites, but none of them are good enough for me -- however that's because I use a lot of the advanced features in Word and Excel in my work. My colleagues create complex models and tools using Excel, none of which work in the free suites or Google Docs. And we do a lot of editing and formatting in Word for clients; in Google Docs you can't even add captions to photos without complicated workarounds. 

But if your needs are simple, you can get by with the free alternatives to Office without a problem.


----------



## fraser

We resisted the offer.

Years in the IT business exposed me to Microsoft's poor QA. There seemed to be no benefit to me. We assumed that there was a hidden benefit to Microsoft that would not be to our advantage.

Not sure there will be a next upgrade or new system for us.

We have been using iPADS for three years (after being dragged kicking and screaming by my spouse). When it is time to replace the desktop we will probably purchase an Apple product. As it is, we seldom use our notebook any more.


----------



## marina628

I upgraded it last week my only issue was I also had to install Microsoft 2016 because I use outlook for my email.


----------



## nathan79

I've been using it on my laptop for several months now, but in retrospect I wouldn't bother switching from Windows 7. There are far too many bugs, and I'm not fond of the UI, especially the Start Menu.

I never could get the Mail app to work... I triple-checked every setting but it would never sync. I've set up Outlook Express manually so I know what I'm doing.

OneDrive has a habit of randomly sending my files to the Recycle Bin... luckily I discovered this before they were permanently deleted.

I initially liked the Alarm Clock app -- until I discovered there's a bug which causes the alarm to randomly not "go off". That's the kind of thing you NEED to work... if my beside alarm clock acted flakey, I'd throw it in the trash rather than risk being late for work.

I'll stick with it only because I don't use my laptop for any serious work and I can't be bothered switching back. Maybe they'll fix all of the issues eventually, but if it was my main PC I'd certainly switch back to Windows 7.


----------



## agent99

Instead of dual booting on my current laptop, I resurrected an old laptop that had Win 7 on it and installed Win 10. That was a while ago and I use that machine from time to time. I gave up on Win 10 mail - it uses flat structure - everything goes in same bucket. On WLM, I have mail sorted into folders as it comes in. It works on Win 10. The Edge browser works, but 3rd party add-ons cannot be installed. Show stopper for me because LastPass doesn't work. And MS gets to decide which ads they want you to see. Installed Chrome and Firefox - both work. Malwarebytes works (I have lifetime licence). On installation, I had a problem in that on reboot it wanted my Microsoft account pass word instead of my Windows password. I could not get past that first screen until I tried a series of passwords until I got the right one. I do have my documents and email synching with my main laptop, so doesn't matter which machine I use.

I have spent enough time now on Win 10 to compare with Win 7. Win 10 works. But what does it do better than Win 7? Nothing that I can tell. On top of that it is clear that MS wants to totally control our computer usage. To get the most out of Win 10, you need to be totally under the MS umbrella. Reading some of the security stuff posted earlier does not give me a warm feeling!

So, I decided not to upgrade my main laptop at all. 

But there are still those nags from MS. So how to get rid of them. This web page explains the issue.. Basically it come down to downloading GWX Control Panel. Read the help instructions and after a few mouse clicks the windows 10 icon at bottom right has gone and you won't get any more nagging ! Doesn't stop you going back if you change your mind, but why would you do that if Win 7 works for you? (If you have Win8 then maybe you should upgrade!)

My next OS upgrade will probably come installed on a new computer.


----------



## AltaRed

But that doesn't necessarily stop Windows10 bloat from sitting on your machine uninstalled. Some folks swear by https://www.grc.com/never10.htm


----------



## agent99

AltaRed said:


> But that doesn't necessarily stop Windows10 bloat from sitting on your machine uninstalled. Some folks swear by https://www.grc.com/never10.htm


Actually GWX Control Panel does remove the win10 install files and some other hidden files, if you choose to.



> The Delete Windows 10 Download Folders feature locates and deletes hidden Windows 10 installer files that Microsoft secretly downloads to your computer.
> The Delete Windows 10 Programs feature easily deletes hard-to-remove program files that are known to prepare your computer for Windows 10 upgrades.


----------



## carverman

kcowan said:


> I have Win7 which works fine. No need for the hassle of upgrading until there are some obvious benefits. They are offering the upgrade to even illegal copies of Windows. Buyer beware.


I have to agree.Still running win 7. No real reason for me to upgrade and I really don't want the side effects of converting should there be any.
You have to ask yourself..why would MS offer WIN 10 for free?


----------



## NorthKC

carverman said:


> You have to ask yourself..why would MS offer WIN 10 for free?


So that they can win back customers who've migrated over to the expensive apple computers...


----------



## carverman

NorthKC said:


> So that they can win back customers who've migrated over to the expensive apple computers...


I got an Apple iPad for my 70th b-day last month. What a difference! No anti virus to deal with and it's a lot faster to use. The only thing
that I see different from the PC is that you have to download APPs for just about everything you do on it. Some apps are free, for others
there is a charge.

Now another thing, my friend migrated over to Win10 on his lap top..this morning he tried to print off a temp insurance statement for
MOT. Couldn't do it,even with my HP printer CDROM loaded. Couldn't find the dot exe executable. its hidden somewhere.\
On my Win 7, it shows up in the pgm bar at the bottom as an dot exe and you click on it and run it to load in and activate the application.



> They are stored in C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\ but you most likely won't be able to run it from there.
> Hit windows key + r and type in "shell:AppsFolder" this should open a list of apps and programs installed on the pc.
> 
> From there you should be able to create a shortcut to the app. Hopefully your touchpad program will accept a shortcut.
> 
> PS, be careful in that AppsFolder folder, it's apparently pretty easy to screw something up if you're careless.


MS sucks.


----------



## camrich

carverman said:


> I got an Apple iPad for my 70th b-day last month. What a difference! No anti virus to deal with and it's a lot faster to use. The only thing
> that I see different from the PC is that you have to download APPs for just about everything you do on it. Some apps are free, for others
> there is a charge.
> 
> Now another thing, my friend migrated over to Win10 on his lap top..this morning he tried to print off a temp insurance statement for
> MOT. Couldn't do it,even with my HP printer CDROM loaded. Couldn't find the dot exe executable. its hidden somewhere.\
> On my Win 7, it shows up in the pgm bar at the bottom as an dot exe and you click on it and run it to load in and activate the application.
> 
> 
> 
> MS sucks.


Went to Apple a few years ago and hate using MS stuff now. Far easier to use imo.


----------



## camrich

NorthKC said:


> So that they can win back customers who've migrated over to the expensive apple computers...


Computers that are a couple of years old now are not so expensive, yes more expensive than a windows laptop but things rarely go wrong and have a good shelf life. Worth an investment if it's possible.


----------



## fraser

I use a MS desktop and an ipad. Our MS notebook is now virtually an orphan.

Should our desktop fail a replacement has been identified...an Apple product. We are on year three for one of our ipads. It is mine, a hand me down from my spouse when she went to a smaller ipad. This unit has been fabulous. Well engineered, well built. It puts my Hp notebook to shame.

I have absolutely no intention of moving to Windows 10. Cannot think of a reason why. What I have works.


----------



## Eclectic12

carverman said:


> ... Couldn't do it,even with my HP printer CDROM loaded. Couldn't find the dot exe executable. its hidden somewhere\
> On my Win 7, it shows up in the pgm bar at the bottom as an dot exe and you click on it and run it to load in and activate the application ...


Weird ... I never tried to find the *.exe to load the printer driver as popping the CD out, then in again meant the "How do you want to deal with CD" box that included an install option. After the install was completed, the printer showed up where I have not had to do anything the app to print.

Weird for Win 7 as the difference for it was popping the CD in auto-ran the install automatically. Again, after the install - never needed the apps, just printed to the printer in the printer part (or chose that particular printer from the app like Word, Notepad etc.).


Is the HP printer special somehow?


Cheers


----------



## agent99

fraser said:


> I use a MS desktop and an ipad. Our MS notebook is now virtually an orphan.
> 
> It puts my Hp notebook to shame.


We have a couple of Blackberry Playbooks that we have owned for about 4 years. They too are very well made and have never given any problems. Despite that, they got a deserved bad rap, when released well before operating system was ready (later corrected). We both still use ours every day. We leave them on 24/7. Email come in, just like on a smartphone. An add-on browser works well (Native one, not so good). The compact size makes them good book readers and we use them for that too. High def screen and very good audio. I have an add-on keyboard, but seldom use it.

But having said that, our tablets, no matter how well they work are not a real replacement for a computer with a full size keyboard, screen, hard drive, processor and ability to attach printers and usb devices. The Playbook does have Flash, but I don't think the ipad does (not such a big deal these days). I understand why your wife would want the smaller ipad. The original is kind of large. Nice screen size, but large to lug around or use as reader?

Mind you, a lot of young people seem to get away with just a smartphone these days!


----------



## fraser

We intend to always have a desktop, screen, printer, etc. But if the current one craps out it will be replaced by an Apple desktop.


----------



## carverman

fraser said:


> I use a MS desktop and an ipad. Our MS notebook is now virtually an orphan.
> 
> Should our desktop fail a replacement has been identified...an Apple product. We are on year three for one of our ipads. It is mine, a hand me down from my spouse when she went to a smaller ipad. This unit has been fabulous. Well engineered, well built. It puts my Hp notebook to shame.
> 
> I have absolutely no intention of moving to Windows 10. Cannot think of a reason why. What I have works.


Win 7 is keyboard orientated.

In Win 8.0 MS, started the conversion to touch screen PCs. It more or less bombed because the START button
was not visible, and you had to search for it. Then they decided that there was enough complaints from PC users to re-instate the Start button at the bottom of the active pgms bar. Good for MS.

Not sure if Win 9 was ever released, it may have been a beta s/w release that didn't get very far beyond initial field (selected users) testing.

So now we have the choice of going over to Win 10..and familiarizing ourselves once again to find features that used to be accessible 
and now are hidden in some files.


----------



## AltaRed

FWIW, I am content enough with Win10 since its debut in August last year. I don't find it cumbersome if one tweaks what they want to see and what they don't.


----------



## carverman

Eclectic12 said:


> Weird ... I never tried to find the *.exe to load the printer driver as popping the CD out, then in again meant the "How do you want to deal with CD" box that included an install option. After the install was completed, the printer showed up where I have not had to do anything the app to print.


 I have the HP CD that came with the inkjet printer, and both my HP printers show up when I access the HP printer application
s/w that came on the CDrom in Win 7.

I'm talking about a laptop that my friend uses, that has Win 10 now.

He migrated over to Win 10 from Win 7. From what we discovered, there was no provision to print anything and installing the HP CDRom in the laptop CDdrive just ..well the CD drive was running but no HP icon appeared, so
I would expect we need some kind of app to download in Win 10? 



> Weird for Win 7 as the difference for it was popping the CD in auto-ran the install automatically. Again, after the install - never needed the apps, just printed to the printer in the printer part (or chose that particular printer from the app like Word, Notepad etc.).





> Is the HP printer special somehow?



No, it is a bog standard HP Officejet 4500. However it does need the correct driver. I'm not sure if the HP CDrom that came with the printer
has the drivers built in, but since there was no HP icon to click on, we never got that far. The drivers are different for Win 10. 

Typical of MS with their Win upgrades..it is not transparent obviously..here's what you need to do to get your printers to print
again..



> Part of the Windows 10 upgrade process includes installing important software updates to support full functionality of the computer and connected devices. I*f all updates failed to install, your printer might not work as expected*. Make sure Windows installed all updates on the computer.



http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04714314


----------



## Beaver101

^ Since the WWWorld is going p*p*r-l*ss and cryptics, MS figured WTH - why provide unnecessary and obsolete printing drivers! 



> Part of the Windows 10 upgrade process includes installing important software updates to support full functionality of the computer and connected devices. If all updates failed to install, your printer might not work as expected. *Make sure Windows installed all updates on the computer.*


 ... the last part is ironically funny.


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Since the WWWorld is going p*p*r-l*ss and cryptics, MS figured WTH - why provide unnecessary and obsolete printing drivers!
> 
> ... the last part is ironically funny.


Kind of like the "Keyboard not found" error, press F1 to continue?


----------



## bgc_fan

agent99 said:


> But having said that, our tablets, no matter how well they work are not a real replacement for a computer with a full size keyboard, screen, hard drive, processor and ability to attach printers and usb devices. The Playbook does have Flash, but I don't think the ipad does (not such a big deal these days). I understand why your wife would want the smaller ipad. The original is kind of large. Nice screen size, but large to lug around or use as reader?


For the record, I have a BB Playbook and it is obsolete due to the fact that its flash isn't updated. Certain sites will not work and some apps which basically scraped websites for content (i.e. TV websites), don't work.

However, I also have an HP Touchpad that I bought during the fire sale, $149 for a 32 MB tablet back in 2011. WebOS is not currently being developed, but you can install Android on it, and you've got a great tablet. It may be a little slow at times compared to something newer, but when you consider how old it is, it's pretty good.


----------



## Spudd

carverman said:


> No, it is a bog standard HP Officejet 4500. However it does need the correct driver.


You can download the driver online. 
http://support.hp.com/us-en/product...ter-Series---G5/3919445/model/3919446/drivers


----------



## Beaver101

bgc_fan said:


> Kind of like the "Keyboard not found" error, press F1 to continue?


 ... "keyboard not found" error message even the (physical) keyboard is infront of the user? LOL. And a challenge for pc users pre-Windows 95 or DOS days (when I was a toddler :wink I heard was "where's the return key"? 

Hmmm... thanks for the F1 tip to Help on Windows10 (I'm still on XP Pro) but then who actually reads or want to read instructions?


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ... "keyboard not found" error message even the (physical) keyboard is infront of the user? LOL. And a challenge for pc users pre-Windows 95 or DOS days (when I was a toddler :wink was "where's the return key"?


Well, it was one of those occasions when the computer could not detect the connected keyboard... asking to press F1 when it wouldn't register doesn't make that much sense. I forget if plugging in a keyboard after the fact works. OTOH, these days I don't think it is an issue as the computer will just boot up. 

Hmm, I thought the problem was finding the "any" key. You know, when the program asks you to "Press any key to continue".


----------



## Eclectic12

carverman said:


> I have the HP CD that came with the inkjet printer, and both my HP printers show up when I access the HP printer application s/w that came on the CDrom in Win 7.
> 
> I'm talking about a laptop that my friend uses, that has Win 10 now.


And I'm talking about the same laptop that used to have Win7 and was upgraded to Win10 ... which is why I find needing an app or finding an executable (other than setup.exe to install the driver) strange.




carverman said:


> He migrated over to Win 10 from Win 7.


Same here.




carverman said:


> ..well the CD drive was running but no HP icon appeared, so I would expect we need some kind of app to download in Win 10?


As I say, I hit the "eject" on the CD-ROM, gave it a few seconds with the HP CD visible then popped the CD tray back in. The right corner after a while gave the "how do you want to deal with this? Run explorer, Run Install". Choosing install ran the same driver install as well as added utility as was seen under Win7.

After ejecting the CD, the HP printer was visible under the Printers section. As long as the printer is plugged in and powered up, all apps running under Win 10 have been able to print to it.





carverman said:


> ... it is a bog standard HP Officejet 4500. However it does need the correct driver. I'm not sure if the HP CDrom that came with the printer has the drivers built in, but since there was no HP icon to click on, we never got that far. The drivers are different for Win 10.


I was considering until the retry worked ... but in the past I have downloaded the HP driver from their web site then run the install from the downloaded file (bypassing the CD entirely). 





carverman said:


> ...Typical of MS with their Win upgrades..it is not transparent obviously..here's what you need to do to get your printers to print again..


The printer I installed was a good deal as it sat on a shelf for two years (the owner did not need it then decided to sell it cheap).

So there are lots of puzzles beyond why the first of the CD did nothing. :biggrin:


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic12

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Since the WWWorld is going p*p*r-l*ss and cryptics, MS figured WTH - why provide unnecessary and obsolete printing drivers!


AFAICT ... HP provides the drivers and M$ only bundles what they figure covers the top ones.

I am in the process of finding my recovery disks as HP has decided not to produce a driver for the switched graphics. The posts trying to get a fix say that using the video card maker's Win 10 driver does not work as HP tweaked the driver. HP's support site says the laptop is too old, no drivers will produced.

The HP automatic app to identify and download updated drivers says the Win 10 laptop is up to date.


Cheers


----------



## carverman

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Since the WWWorld is going p*p*r-l*ss and cryptics, MS figured WTH - why provide unnecessary and obsolete printing drivers!
> 
> ... the last part is ironically funny.


Ya, the world is indeed going paperless but old dynasours like me, still like a hard copy for banking and credit card statements. 

I have my own paper filing system and if my PC ever crashes and cant be recovered (then at least I have hard copies to refer to).
You probably mean iphones and ipads..that don't need printers and store stuff in that magical "cloud', that is far beyond the sun and
far beyond the rain...oh oh..I feel a song coming on.."Somewhere over the rainbow..bluebirds fly"and there is a cloud for my data storage.


----------



## carverman

Eclectic12 said:


> As I say, I hit the "eject" on the CD-ROM, gave it a few seconds with the HP CD visible then popped the CD tray back in. The right corner after a while gave the "how do you want to deal with this? Run explorer, Run Install". Choosing install ran the same driver install as well as added utility as was seen under Win7.


This is one of those nuances ( or nuisances) that I find bizarre with PCs and MS software...always some surprise. 



> After ejecting the CD, the HP printer was visible under the Printers section. As long as the printer is plugged in and powered up, all apps running under Win 10 have been able to print to it.





> I was considering until the retry worked ... but in the past I have downloaded the HP driver from their web site then run the install from the downloaded file (bypassing the CD entirely).


Yes, I guess you could do that too..but my friend's laptop never had the HP Printer apps (HP SOLUTION CENTRE) that allows you to scan documents, fax and ink cartridge check, ( installed from the CD rom, so it was a new experience. 



> The printer I installed was a good deal as it sat on a shelf for two years (the owner did not need it then decided to sell it cheap).


These days, most printers sold are a good deal, but they rip you off on the ink cartridges. 

I bought some refill cartridges and not sure what the problem was with them, but the HP printer complained about "incompatible ink cartridge", and flashed an error that I couldn't reset. Probably the chip inside the cartridge was not reset properly. 
Sent these back and order gen-u-whine HP cartridges..almost double the price!



> So there are lots of puzzles beyond why the first of the CD did nothing. :biggrin:


I suspect it was the Toshiba Satellite laptop that wasn't too happy with the CDRom running on Win 10.
I'm still on Win 7 and will stay that way. I really don't have a need for Win 10 on my desktop. I have an iPad now that
serves as my portable.


----------



## sags

My computer has been consistent.

It only seizes up when I am in a hurry  

Dell mini computer is a fussy little fella. Dell laptop power button doesn't work and battery is fried. Dell notepad works sometimes and sometimes not....depends on what kind of mood it is in.

LG smartphone never worked right. Got a recent OS update and it works okay now.

Computers are great when they work............but all these "time saving" devices sure take up a lot of time.

And then you got your wireless router, digital television boxes, and sound system (thanks to Carverman for helping me solve that one) to play around with.

Got Sirius XM in the car..........and it actually works flawlessly, but the cell bluetooth is erratic..........

Meh............technology.


----------



## agent99

bgc_fan said:


> For the record, I have a BB Playbook and it is obsolete due to the fact that its flash isn't updated. Certain sites will not work and some apps which basically scraped websites for content (i.e. TV websites), don't work.
> 
> However, I also have an HP Touchpad that I bought during the fire sale, $149 for a 32 MB tablet back in 2011. WebOS is not currently being developed, but you can install Android on it, and you've got a great tablet. It may be a little slow at times compared to something newer, but when you consider how old it is, it's pretty good.


You are right in that the Playbook is obsolete and some sites and apps no longer work. It does run quite a number of Android apps. And others will work if sideloaded. Bur really only the Geeks are doing that. Whether it is a Playbook or an obsolete HP, if you can browse the web, read your email, read a book, play a silly game or two etc, what more do you want, if you have a laptop as well? I have even used my PB for live streaming foreign sport events. I paid about $120 and my wife's cost $69, I think. Still great devices for our uses. 

I could also do fine with Windows XP, but MS threatens us with lack of support etc. Same with Vista on my wife's laptop. I do still have a desktop machine that runs XP for very specific applications designed to run under XP and that don't work in a virtual machine. Should crank it up and make sure it still works!


----------



## agent99

Spudd said:


> You can download the driver online.
> http://support.hp.com/us-en/product...ter-Series---G5/3919445/model/3919446/drivers


Trying to load drivers off a CD that came with a printer makes no sense. Even a brand new printer probably has obsolete drivers on the CD. 

As you said, you have to go on-line to the manufacturer's site and download the latest drivers. It will know that you have Win 10 and you will get what is needed. In many case, even that will not be necessary because Windows will use it's own drivers and the will work just fine. Most hardware is plug and play.


----------



## carverman

sags said:


> My computer has been consistent.
> 
> It only seizes up when I am in a hurry
> 
> Meh............technology.


Computers and the software to run them..if they were trouble free, I wouldn't have had a job at Nortel for 25 years. I've spent many a long night after many a long day, sitting in front of a server or dialup terminal at work, digging into software and troubleshooting why?..why?..it doesn't work in THIS COMPUTER system BUT it apparently WORKS in other similar computer systems with the SAME SOFTWARE load. (one wrong value bit in it's memory is all it takes)

Now I hate to brag here, but this is what separates the top notch system troubleshooters from the wannabees. 
I had to find a solution! No excuses..the buck stops here..Nortel owned the source code and built the loads, so there wasn't
anyone else to blame.

Now recently back in January, what pissed me off with AVG anti-virus products is that their AVG support didn't fix the problem after nearly `10 HOURS of troubleshooting spanning 2 calendar days. Downloading the AVG antivirus from their AVG download site over and over ad nauseum,
My laptop was out of commission for almost 2 days until I decide to take action myself in anger and desperation.

Even with the debugger he loaded onto my laptop..after 10-12 downloads and restarts, he could not find why there was an the error code that that came from *their AVG anti-virus software*.

What the hell? AVG charged me $90 Cdn to fix my computer's AVG virus application problem and couldn't. They ABANDONED me after the second day, telling me the reason their antivirus would not apply was because of 'SOME CORRUPTION migrating from Win 7 to Win 10 *OR* maybe it had something to do with my laptop Win 10 software and not their antivirus software...
their suggested solution was to reload clean with Win 10 and start all over again...or perhaps buy a new laptop?

Ya sure, I'll throw out another few hundred to prove them right or WRONG as in this case!

MY SOLUTION? Get rid of all traces of AVG anti-virus and load in FREE NORTON INTERNET SECURITY...guess what..it went in without a hitch, initialized and and started working like it should. There WAS NO PROBLEM with the laptop!

I raised a dispute with my CC bank with Staples.ca and AVG tech support. Staples called me a couple times and sent me emails telling me that they don't offer refunds on downloaded software (antivirus) or their anti-virus packages bought in their stores..if opened.

I argued that their downloadable AVG product as advertised on their site..was DEFECTIVE. Eventually they agreed to give me a partial refund.
Still proceeding with the CC charge ($90) from AVG tech support.
I will never use AVG anti-virus again due to AVG sloppy customer support!


----------



## carverman

Lot of mass storage these days is in that "cloud'..that nebulous entity that exists somewhere.
But how safe is it ..storing your personal files on it?





> Why are people concerned with cloud security?
> 
> It’s physically out of your hands. You aren’t saving to a hard drive at your house. You are sending your data to another company, which could be saving your data thousands of miles away, so keeping that information safe is now dependent on them. “Whether data is being sent automatically (think apps that sync to the cloud) or driven by users uploading photos to social media, the end result is that it’s all there somewhere being logged and stored,” says <name>, Senior Security Researcher at Malwarebytes.






> Risks of cloud storage
> 
> Cloud security is tight, but it’s not infallible. Cybercriminals can get into those files, whether by guessing security questions or bypassing passwords. That’s what happened in The Great iCloud Hack of 2014, where nude pictures of celebrities were accessed and published online.
> 
> But the bigger risk with cloud storage is privacy. Even if data isn’t stolen or published, it can still be viewed. Governments can legally request information stored in the cloud, and it’s up to the cloud services provider to deny access. Tens of thousands of requests for user data are sent to Google, Microsoft, and other businesses each year by government agencies. A large percentage of the time, these companies hand over at least some kind of data, even if it’s not the content in full.


----------



## bgc_fan

agent99 said:


> You are right in that the Playbook is obsolete and some sites and apps no longer work. It does run quite a number of Android apps. And others will work if sideloaded.


The amount of Android apps that can run on the Playbook is relatively limited and somewhat buggy. I used to use it to stream video from CTV.ca and whatnot, but as the flash is out of date, I don't do it. I do take it with me on trips as I use it to web browse and an alarm clock, but that's about it. Even web browsing can be buggy.



agent99 said:


> I could also do fine with Windows XP, but MS threatens us with lack of support etc. Same with Vista on my wife's laptop.


Other than the 2 tablets, I have a total of 3 older computers: an old Dell laptop running XP that I only used for UFile, but now that it isn't supported, the laptop is probably going to be sitting on the shelf; an old Asus netbook (the original ones back in 2008) running Lubuntu; and an old Lenovo desktop (bought used a couple of years ago) running Lubuntu. While the netbook is a bit slow, it is usuable for trips. I don't foresee any need for upgrades or moving to the MS environment.

Aside from those, I did buy a couple of Raspberry Pi 3s, for a total of $200 including case, power supply and microSD cards. One is being used as a HTPC running OpenElec (a Kodi-based Linux distribution), and the other is sitting around while I consider installing Raspbian and have a portable computer for travel.


----------



## bgc_fan

carverman said:


> Lot of mass storage these days is in that "cloud'..that nebulous entity that exists somewhere.
> But how safe is it ..storing your personal files on it?


You do recall the whole thing about celebrities iCloud accounts being hacked... really, I question the wisdom of automatically backing up photos to the cloud, particularly intimate pictures. Turns out, it wasn't a big hack job, just a regular phishing scam to get the account information.


----------



## carverman

bgc_fan said:


> You do recall the whole thing about celebrities iCloud accounts being hacked... really, I question the wisdom of automatically backing up photos to the cloud, *particularly intimate pictures.* Turns out, it wasn't a big hack job, just a regular phishing scam to get the account information.


What? They are storing 'boob-a-lishsus" pictures on a cloud? What is this younger generation coming to? Some of these celebrities have to
be the stupidest human beings on the planet.


----------



## Eclectic12

agent99 said:


> Trying to load drivers off a CD that came with a printer makes no sense. Even a brand new printer probably has obsolete drivers on the CD.


That's what I usually find ... so it is puzzling that the CD for a printer that seems to have sat on a shelf from before Win 10 was released worked just fine, once Win 10 gave a choice for what to do with it.




agent99 said:


> As you said, you have to go on-line to the manufacturer's site and download the latest drivers. It will know that you have Win 10 and you will get what is needed ...


As it worked for printer - I didn't need to but would not be surprised for the printer. 

OTOH, I have checked for the HP tweaked graphics, where HP's web site explicitly says they aren't going to release new drivers and that the laptop in question is too old/out of support. From what's been posted on web sites, going directly to the graphics card makers site to get their Win 10 aware drivers is a waste of time because of the tweaks HP made. It seems YMMV.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic12

carverman said:


> What? They are storing 'boob-a-lishsus" pictures on a cloud? What is this younger generation coming to? Some of these celebrities have to be the stupidest human beings on the planet.


Depends ... it took me a while to figure out that the company supplied cell phone was backing up all cell phone photos to the cloud. As it was setup by work where cloud backup is frowned on - it was not something I expected to need to check for.

The one thing that helped was that it was set to only backup through wifi so I didn't end up with huge roaming charges.


Cheers


----------



## agent99

bgc_fan said:


> The amount of Android apps that can run on the Playbook is relatively limited and somewhat buggy. I used to use it to stream video from CTV.ca and whatnot, but as the flash is out of date, I don't do it. I do take it with me on trips as I use it to web browse and an alarm clock, but that's about it. *Even web browsing can be buggy.*


Have you tried the Origami browser? It works great for us. Native PB browser IS buggy.


----------



## bgc_fan

agent99 said:


> Have you tried the Origami browser? It works great for us. Native PB browser IS buggy.


I did try Origami browser for a bit. I didn't find it much of an improvement. I could give it another shot.


----------



## mrPPincer

_*You Will Comply*_

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/121/721/f14.png


----------



## humble_pie

someone is going to show me next week how to remove the files that allow MS to keep dumping its win 10 adware on my machine.

my plan is to buy win 10 on my next machine but not before. In the meantime i think win 10 is already downloaded, it just hasn't had a chance to install itself yet.

win 10 is like a crouching tiger in my life. It's always lurking. I keep having to prevent it from leaping at me with outstretched fangs & claws.

apparently there's something about july 29th, m'soft is trying even harder to force win 10 before july 29th.


----------



## stantistic

My sentiments exactly concerning Win 10. BTW humble pie, the system tells me that your private message allowance is full.


----------



## carverman

humble_pie said:


> someone is going to show me next week how to remove the files that allow MS to keep dumping its win 10 adware on my machine.
> 
> my plan is to buy win 10 on my next machine but not before. In the meantime i think win 10 is already downloaded, it just hasn't had a chance to install itself yet.
> 
> *win 10 is like a crouching tiger in my life*. It's always lurking. I keep having to prevent it from leaping at me with outstretched fangs & claws.
> 
> *apparently there's something about july 29th, m'soft is trying even harder to force win 10 before july 29th.*


But is there a "hidden dragon" (ie MS current ambitions to collect LOTS and LOTS of money from those who have upgraded for "FREE"?

July 29th, is supposed to be MS "dropdead date" for FREE upgrades to Win10. 

Now IF you decide NOT to upgrade your PC by July 29th, 2016, which is ONE YEAR after the official release date of Win 10...you will be committed to burn in MS Hell, for the rest of your computing days..or shredded by the crouching tigers and hidden dragons.:biggrin:

It's hard to say what they will do with Win 10 after that date. Their objective was to have 1 BILLON PCs over the world running on Win 10 a year after it's release last July. Sounds like one of those MS board room objectives..or they have some other sinister objective in mind.



> *Scenario 1*: Microsoft sticks with its deadline and begins charging for Windows 10 upgrades.
> There's plenty of precedent for this, based on past behaviour. For Windows 7 and 8, Microsoft offered significant introductory discounts and then ended them on schedule after a few months, with no extensions. I suppose that could happen here, too. But does it make sense?
> 
> Not really.
> 
> There's no financial reason to pull the plug after one year. Retail upgrades have historically represented a microscopic share of Microsoft's revenue (see the chart in this article), and most customers who might have been willing to pay for an upgrade will have taken advantage of the free offer by then.
> 
> *Asking existing Windows 7 users to pay $99 or more after they've spent a year avoiding the free upgrade seems like a surefire way to guarantee that they never upgrade. *That significantly increases the risk of an XP-style mess come 2020.





> *Scenario 2*: Microsoft extends the free upgrade offer indefinitely.
> The point of imposing an expiration date is to add some urgency to the upgrade decision. Act now! Don't be shut out!
> 
> In theory, the company could get to the end of the free upgrade period, declare that the entire program has been an unbridled success, and just extend it.
> 
> But all that strategy does is provide an excuse for laggards to keep kicking the can down the road for as long as possible. That doesn't align with any of Microsoft's goals, and as a result I consider this scenario also highly unlikely


Sigh! PC users will contunue to get manipulated by MS..do they have a choice?

*Scenario 3*: *A new "free upgrade" offer replaces the current offer.*


> Sometime in the first half of 2016, Microsoft plans to ship the next major feature upgrade to Windows 10, codenamed "Redstone." Members of the Windows Insider program are currently testing preview releases of the first Redstone builds, and the release notes for the latest build, 14251, offers a hint that new features will begin arriving very soon:
> 
> We're at the beginning of a new development cycle for our next feature update to Windows 10, and that means teams will be checking in lots of new code as they integrate their feature payloads.


And finally this possibilty : Win 10 requires upgrades after July 29th...oh you need to download our "Redstone" upgrade
package for Win10. Some of the bugs have been fixed and the rest are features that MS has to charge you something
for....$99 sound good for you PC users?


----------



## humble_pie

carverman said:


> But is there a "hidden dragon" (ie MS current ambitions to collect LOTS and LOTS of money from those who have upgraded for "FREE"?
> 
> July 29th, is supposed to be MS "dropdead date" for FREE upgrades to Win10.
> 
> Now IF you decide NOT to upgrade your PC by July 29th, 2016, which is ONE YEAR after the official release date of Win 10...you will be committed to burn in MS Hell, for the rest of your computing days..or shredded by the crouching tigers and hidden dragons.:biggrin:
> 
> It's hard to say what they will do with Win 10 after that date. Their objective was to have 1 BILLON PCs over the world running on Win 10 a year after it's release last July. Sounds like one of those MS board room objectives..or they have some other sinister objective in mind.
> 
> 
> Sigh! PC users will contunue to get manipulated by MS..do they have a choice?
> 
> *Scenario 3*: *A new "free upgrade" offer replaces the current offer.*
> 
> 
> And finally this possibilty : Win 10 requires upgrades after July 29th...oh you need to download our "Redstone" upgrade
> package for Win10. Some of the bugs have been fixed and the rest are features that MS has to charge you something
> for....$99 sound good for you PC users?





all this is too much for a poor pie. Have you seen the nice warm socks i was thinking to knit for you though. 

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...-forest-fire?p=1151258&viewfull=1#post1151258


although these might do instead.

.


----------



## carverman

humble_pie said:


> all this is too much for a poor pie. Have you seen the nice warm socks i was thinking to knit for you though.
> 
> http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...-forest-fire?p=1151258&viewfull=1#post1151258
> 
> 
> although these might do instead.
> 
> .


 Those socks definitely look cool. But this is summer..does one wear Nordic socks in the summertime? 
I need to wear some socks as my toenails are not very pretty looking and I can't wear sandles anymore.


----------



## stantistic

On reflection, why are we so concerned about Win 10 ? Does it do something that other OS do not ?


----------



## mrPPincer

when everyone is on 10 they will make it like the apple store


----------



## mrPPincer

There are options, gamers are already getting ready to switch to Linux (freeware open source OS), and the gaming industry is responding.

(the gaming industry is where the money is, thus where the inovation is, ie 3D mapping, computer AI, etc. etc., that's where it all, or the majority of it, is funded).


----------



## agent99

stantistic said:


> On reflection, why are we so concerned about Win 10 ? Does it do something that other OS do not ?


I have it on one laptop and Win 7 on another. In general, no difference IF the same applications are used on both. For example, Windows Live mail and Firefox or Chrome. 

The Win 10 mail program and the Edge browser are not up to par. 

There are some improvement in Win 10, but there are also _changes_ in names and locations which adds to confusion when switching. 

But really, next time we buy a laptop, it will come with Win 10 and we won't be unhappy with it. Just so long as aftermarket products are out there like Open Office etc. I made backups (clones) of my Win 7 installations so I can switch back any time in future.


----------



## bgc_fan

agent99 said:


> But really, next time we buy a laptop, it will come with Win 10 and we won't be unhappy with it. Just so long as aftermarket products are out there like Open Office etc. I made backups (clones) of my Win 7 installations so I can switch back any time in future.


Maybe things have changed, but is that even viable? Installing a clone Win 7 installation on a different system that is. IIRC if there is significant hardware differences between what Win 7 had installed on and its current environment, doesn't it require the original Win 7 OS disk to reinstall?


----------



## carverman

stantistic said:


> On reflection, why are we so concerned about Win 10 ? Does it do something that other OS do not ?


It is MS recovery from Win 8 and their decision to get rid of the "START" button menu. Everybody who tried Win 8
hated it., prompting MS to come up with 8.1 to put the start menu back again. Two steps forward and one step
back it seems.

I heard somewheres that it was developed for PCs with that new touchscreen and the iPad and Tablets.



> Best new features in Windows 10: *Cortana*
> As we expected, Cortana is one of the headline features of Windows 10 – at least as far as Microsoft is concerned. The digital assistant, which rivals Siri and Google Now, has been available on Windows Phone for a while will come to PCs and tablets.


_IF you are a XBox owner/player you will like this feat_ure



> Best new features in Windows 10: *Xbox app and streaming*
> There's good news for gamers as not only with the Xbox One get Windows 10 (including Universal apps – see below), Microsoft has introduced some sweet new features. Windows 10 will come with the Xbox app (although there was no mention of Windows 10 for phones getting it) which has features like the ability to control the Xbox One and a DVR capture for any Windows games.
> 
> Furthermore, you'll be able to play multiplayer games cross-platform between Xbox One and PC. As if that wasn't enough, Windows 10 will support the ability to stream games from the Xbox Box – although we don't have details on the technical requirements for this yet. Oh and there's support for DirectX 12.


 _Got it so far? With a intensive develoment like the Xbox app, no wonder they want millions of users out there debugging their Win "beta" 10 version._

Apps..everyone has a few these days in their iphones...


> Best new features in Windows 10:* Universal apps*
> The news of Universal apps is good news for anyone using more than one Windows device. A bundle of apps including Photos, Videos, Music, Maps, People & Messaging and Mail & Calendar (and presumably more in the future) will look and feel the same across different devices and screen sizes. The data will also be saved and sync automatically via OneDrive.


_now if your life isn't complicated enough with these new technological developments...a new kind of browser
_


> Best new features in Windows 10: *Edge browser*
> Microsoft's new web browser is called Edge, formally 'Project Spartan' and will replace Internet Explorer in Windows 10. It's been built with 'interoperability' in mind, according to Microsoft. Features include a reading mode and the ability to annotate, either with a keyboard, pen or a finger. There's also integration with Cortana to provide additional information – for example, when you're on a web page for a restaurant Cortana will make a booking and display information such as opening times.


_enhancements to your life..._



> Best new features in Windows 10: *Enhancements*
> Thanks to the Windows Insider program, Microsoft is making changes suggested by Windows users around the globe. Since Windows 10 runs across all devices, the OS will have unified settings. That means the end of separate control panel and PC settings. There's also the Action Center now provides notifications and is synchronised across devices.
Click to expand...

_and for your smart phones...depending on who's your using..._



> Best new features in Windows 10: *Windows Phone*
> It looks like the death of Windows Phone is near as Windows 10 will arrive on Windows Phone devices when it launches. Microsoft has given no other name for it running on smartphone and small tablet


_getting excited yet?_:biggrin:

_Now remember those holographic images in some of the movies you have seen over the years?_



> Best new features in Windows 10: *HoloLens*
> This one might be somewhat far off and futuristic, but Windows 10 is the first holographic computing platform. A set of APIs will mean developers can create holographic experiences in the real world.
> *It's more like augmented reality to us but it's certainly interesting*. It will work with the HoloLens which Microsoft calls the world’s first untethered holographic computer (it doesn't need to connect to a PC to work).


_and we are "Back to the Future'..in the "time-space continuum"..Great Scott!!!...shall I continue????_::cool2:



> Best new features in Windows 10: *Continuum Mode*
> On 2in1 devices (hybrids and convertibles), *Windows 10 will make life easier with a 'Continuum Mode'*. This means the OS moves easily between laptop (keyboard/mouse) and tablet (touch) usage modes automatically. It will do this if it detects the loss or addition of a keyboard.



What? No more keyboard...I will lose my finger dexterity to tap on things, and have to retrain my fingers to move things around on a screen with no keyboard?.....I thinks they still need to develop a virtual keyboard for those old diehards like me. :hopelessness:


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## carverman

bgc_fan said:


> Maybe things have changed, but is that even viable? Installing a clone Win 7 installation on a different system that is. IIRC if there is significant hardware differences between what Win 7 had installed on and its current environment, doesn't it require the original Win 7 OS disk to reinstall?


You've got a MONTH to go back to Win 7 after the upgrade. . If not, MS erases the files on Win 7 saved on your hard disk,
and then you have to start from scratch again. Obviously their intention is for users of Windows 10 NOT to go back.

I guess it's counter productive for them.


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## kcowan

I don't trust MS. We have four devices: 2 iPhones, an iPad and a Win7 laptop. The first three create no extra work. The last one has forced me to acquire Never 10 to just keep using it. The Borg seems to be on a mission to somehow make my laptop a major issue. I use the laptop because it is familiar and so easy to do spreadsheets. If MS continues on the current path, I will switch to an iPad. It requires some work either way so maybe I will get away from Windows after 30 years.


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## carverman

kcowan said:


> I don't trust MS. We have four devices: 2 iPhones, an iPad and a Win7 laptop. The first three create no extra work. The last one has forced me to acquire Never 10 to just keep using it. The Borg seems to be on a mission to somehow make my laptop a major issue. I use the laptop because it is familiar and so easy to do spreadsheets. If MS continues on the current path, I will switch to an iPad. It requires some work either way so maybe I will get away from Windows after 30 years.


I have converted to an IPad. I found it a bit strange at first because it is different from the Win 7 I'm using.

A couple of features, I had to disable because I didn't like the auto correction built in that attempted to correct my spelling errors while in message mode with the tiny virtual keyboard in SETTINGS. 

Once I did that and the use of the rubber tipped pen provided, it has been a lot easier to send and compose messages to my daughter. 
I also downloaded the banking/CC apps and weather channel app. 

Once you get used to it. it's a lot easier to use than a PC with a keyboard, although composing messages is a bit slower as it becomes basically a "one finger" entry with the special pen..rather than a two hand/several finger keyboard manipulation for composing email/etc and it takes a bit longer.


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## brad

There are lots of instructions online for how to disable the Windows 10 reminder and installation files on a Windows 7 or 8 machine; a Google search for "disable Windows 10" will turn up a few thousand options, any of which will work.

I've been using Windows 10 on a Surface tablet since last summer and don't have any major complaints with it; it has some improvements over Windows 7 and it's easy to disable the settings that have caused privacy concerns. It's easy to ignore the Edge browser; I never use it intentionally although it opens automatically when you want to view a PDF (unless you have Acrobat on your computer). It's weird that they didn't include any software for viewing video, but Windows Media Player is still there for audio, along with Groove (which I find confusing). OneDrive has never worked for me so I don't use it. 

The biggest selling point for me is the built-in PDF creation engine, which Apple has been providing on their computers for at least 10 years now and I was frustrated that it was missing in Windows. I also like the split-screen capabilities in Windows 10, and the built-in email app is really quite good, including the calendar. The app store isn't very useful and is amateurishly implemented; I don't get much software through it.


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## agent99

bgc_fan said:


> Maybe things have changed, but is that even viable? Installing a clone Win 7 installation on a different system that is. IIRC if there is significant hardware differences between what Win 7 had installed on and its current environment, doesn't it require the original Win 7 OS disk to reinstall?


It is possible to restore to different hardware using some commercial backup software. But because Win 10 is tied to the machine, you might have to advise MS. 

But I perhaps mis-stated what I have done. As a safeguard against an upgrade screwup, I made a complete clone backup of my Win 7 machine to a separate removable hard drive before upgrading. Then 'upgraded' the existing hard drive to Win 10. I can at any time put the backup drive back in and it will then boot Win 7 as before. May never need to do that.


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## bgc_fan

agent99 said:


> But I perhaps mis-stated what I have done. As a safeguard against an upgrade screwup, I made a complete clone backup of my Win 7 machine to a separate removable hard drive before upgrading. Then 'upgraded' the existing hard drive to Win 10. I can at any time put the backup drive back in and it will then boot Win 7 as before. May never need to do that.


I misunderstood. I thought you were cloning the harddrive and then if you wanted to get rid of the Win 10 installed on a NEW computer, you would just swap hard drives.


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## stantistic

*To Microsoft*

In reply to your unsolicited offer to install Windows 10, I wish to offer you the most famous comment by a former Canadian prime minister.


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## brad

If you accidentally download Windows 10 due to Microsoft's increasingly aggressive strategies to force you to do it, here are instructions for removing it:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3074...r-8-after-an-unwanted-windows-10-upgrade.html


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## Userkare

I'm starting to get pretty annoyed with Windows 10. I like the new GUI... instead of cluttering the entire screen with icons, having them only appear when clicking the "START" icon, and arranged in groups, is a nice feature. Having the tasking view of multiple screens ( like just about every Linux Distro ) has almost eliminated the need for two monitors.

But... what is making me nuts is the constant "Your computer has encountered a problem and needs to be restarted" messages I get. The descriptions of the issues range from the obscure to the outright bizarre. This morning I got... "Kernel Auto Boost lock acquisition with raised IRQL". OMG no, say it ain't so!!!! Just WTF exactly am I expected to do to correct this problem?

My computer is set up to automatically back up everything every night at 1:00AM. I use Macrium Reflect to create an image of the hard drives. I have enabled the Win 10 option to 'defer' upgrades, but it still does "security updates" whenever it wants; this is set for 4:00AM. Now, when I start my computer in the morning, if it repeatedly gives me the "Your computer has encountered ..." message, attempts to "diagnose the problem", then tells me to go "F myself", because it can't fix it - I just restore the backup from the previous evening and everything is fine - till the next time my computer encounters a problem.

I've used this computer with Win 7, and never encountered any such problems. I would suspect a hardware issue, like faulty memory chips, would cause this type of behaviour, but once the machine is running, it's fine for as long as I don't reboot it. I hate having something turned on 24/7 if I'm not using it, but it's almost worth the cost of the electricity to not deal with running restore backup jobs. I even tried the hibernate feature, but when it wakes up, it decides that I don't have a network card, and can't access anything on my local LAN or the Internet.

I'm starting to seriously consider putting Win 7 back - from the install DVD - to be sure there' nothing left of Win 10.


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## brad

Userkare said:


> But... what is making me nuts is the constant "Your computer has encountered a problem and needs to be restarted" messages I get. The descriptions of the issues range from the obscure to the outright bizarre. This morning I got... "Kernel Auto Boost lock acquisition with raised IRQL". OMG no, say it ain't so!!!! Just WTF exactly am I expected to do to correct this problem?


I haven't had a single crash with Windows 10 since I started using it last summer. But that's probably because it came preinstalled on my computer. I did try installing it as an upgrade on my desktop computer, replacing Windows 7, and it crashed every time I tried to use it so I went back to Windows 7 on that machine. In general, I think upgrading is likely to cause more problems than a bare-metal install or buying a new machine with Windows 10 pre-installed. I had the same problems on my girlfriend's laptop when we tried to upgrade it from Windows 7 to 10...lots of crashes and odd behaviour. In contrast it has been rock-solid on my Surface Tablet that came with Windows 10 already installed.


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## stantistic

*Similar thread*

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/93090-Should-i-move-to-Windows-10


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## carverman

Userkare said:


> But... what is making me nuts is the constant "Your computer has encountered a problem and needs to be restarted" messages I get. The descriptions of the issues range from the obscure to the outright bizarre. This morning I got... "*Kernel Auto Boost lock acquisition with raised IRQL"*. OMG no, say it ain't so!!!! Just WTF exactly am I expected to do to correct this problem?


Zo..you got this cryptic message..and you don't know how to handle it? TSK! TSK!...back to PC skool for you..or is it "No soup for you!" :biggrin:

Kernel :
The role of the kernel. The kernel is the most fundamental part of an operating system. It can be thought of as the program which controls all other programs on the computer. It is responsible for the creation and destruction of memory space which allows software to run.



> Many Windows users have already switched to Windows 10, and although most of them are pleased with it, some are experiencing errors. *One of the errors that some users have reported is the BSOD “Kernel auto boost lock acquisition with raised irql” error*, and today we’re going to show you how to fix it.
> 
> How to fix BSOD Blue Screen of Death) Caused by “Kernel Auto Boost Lock Acquisition With Raised IRQL” in Windows 10
> There are two possible causes for this error, *one is your Bluetooth device and other is your wireless adapter*, so let’s see if we can fix this problem. To fix this, you might have to enter Safe Mode using the Advanced Startup if you can’t access Windows 10.


http://windowsreport.com/bsod-kernel-auto-boost-lock-acquisition-with-raised-irql/

you probably need to disable your Bluetooth adapters/devices?

Windows 10 and Microsoft...little OS real time bugs that they haven't solved yet.


http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...92a-5e61-44aa-894e-c1359e383af2?page=2&auth=1

"Kernel Auto Boost" and "Major Pain"..what a combination!:biggrin:




> My computer is set up to automatically back up everything every night at 1:00AM. I use Macrium Reflect to create an image of the hard drives. I have enabled the Win 10 option to 'defer' upgrades, but it still does "security updates" whenever it wants; this is set for 4:00AM. Now, when I start my computer in the morning, if it repeatedly gives me the *"Your computer has encountered ..." message, attempts to "diagnose the problem", then tells me to go "F myself", because it can't fix it *- I just restore the backup from the previous evening and everything is fine - till the next time my computer encounters a problem.


Ah yes,...a computer with "attitude"..once they were a slave to the master (human)...now the computer is the Master!



> *I've used this computer with Win 7, and never encountered any such problems*. I would suspect a hardware issue, like faulty memory chips, would cause this type of behaviour, but once the machine is running, it's fine for as long as I don't reboot it. I hate having something turned on 24/7 if I'm not using it, but it's almost worth the cost of the electricity to not deal with running restore backup jobs. I even tried the hibernate feature, but when it wakes up, it decides that I don't have a network card, and can't access anything on my local LAN or the Internet.
> 
> I'm starting to seriously consider putting Win 7 back - from the install DVD - to be sure there' nothing left of Win 10.


What have I told you all along with the Win7 to Win10 upgrade? Now I'll start clucking like an old Mother Hen...gather round "children".

FACT: Not every computer out there will work reliably on Win10.
Not only are there "hardware issues" but operational constraints (timing) in the architecture.

Sure you may have an adequate speed processor, enough hard disk space, and enough ram for Win 10 to run MOST of the time..but there are still lots of operational "gotchas" that can surface and cause cryptic errors such as the one mentioned above.;

When you buy an OEM PC/laptop with Win10, the manufacturer has tested out that model to make sure it is as
bug free as possible before it goes on the market. Not so with your 5 or 10 year old PC that was original designed
for XP or even older OS. 

IRQ is an interrupt request by some peripheral device or support chip to the main processing element.
An IRQ L (lock) means that the processor is LOCKED UP by something that has set an interrupt to the processor and won`t release
that request..so your PC has no choice but stop dead in it's tracks and go down to firmware level, and display the BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) of process. Something that some or even most PC users have experienced in an unstable processing environment.


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## martinv

I have a desktop computer and laptop, both running windows 10. ( both "non touch" screens ).
Both were upgraded from windows 8.1 without any problems.
I went online to learn how to disable everything not needed in windows 10, privacy, security etc.
I don't use anything microsoft, ie. their apps, edge, bing, cortana, one drive, their email etc.
I go straight to the desktop and click on the program I want which is usually google chrome.
Just realized that I am down to about 5 programs, chrome, utorrent, vlc media player, ccleaner and studio tax.
Probably could do with a Chromebook but windows 10 does work well just to get me to google.
I use google for pretty much everything. 
I am firmly in the anything but microsoft camp.


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## pwm

I'm running Win 10 on my desktop which I upgraded from 8.1 and a "new to me" used laptop which I just bought. It had Win 7 on it but I insisted that he install Win 10 and he did so free of charge. Why not get the newest OS if you can? Very happy with Win 10 on both machines. My wife's machine still has Win XP on it and I will install Linux Mint when McAfee stops supporting XP. Last word from them is sometime in 2016.


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## BigMonkey

Windows 10 upgrade expiration is coming up soon for those are on the fence. I upgraded my old laptop to Windows 10 from Windows 7, so far it seems to be a pleasure to use in my limited time with it. But it is no longer my primary computer, I made the switch to Mac when Windows 8 came out.


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## Userkare

carverman said:


> Zo..you got this cryptic message..and you don't know how to handle it? TSK! TSK!...back to PC skool for you..or is it "No soup for you!" :biggrin:
> 
> Kernel :
> The role of the kernel. The kernel is the most fundamental part of an operating system. It can be thought of as the program which controls all other programs on the computer. It is responsible for the creation and destruction of memory space which allows software to run.
> 
> 
> you probably need to disable your Bluetooth adapters/devices?
> 
> Windows 10 and Microsoft...little OS real time bugs that they haven't solved yet.
> 
> 
> Ah yes,...a computer with "attitude"..once they were a slave to the master (human)...now the computer is the Master!
> 
> 
> What have I told you all along with the Win7 to Win10 upgrade? Now I'll start clucking like an old Mother Hen...gather round "children".
> 
> FACT: Not every computer out there will work reliably on Win10.
> Not only are there "hardware issues" but operational constraints (timing) in the architecture.
> 
> Sure you may have an adequate speed processor, enough hard disk space, and enough ram for Win 10 to run MOST of the time..but there are still lots of operational "gotchas" that can surface and cause cryptic errors such as the one mentioned above.;
> 
> When you buy an OEM PC/laptop with Win10, the manufacturer has tested out that model to make sure it is as
> bug free as possible before it goes on the market. Not so with your 5 or 10 year old PC that was original designed
> for XP or even older OS.
> 
> IRQ is an interrupt request by some peripheral device or support chip to the main processing element.
> An IRQ L (lock) means that the processor is LOCKED UP by something that has set an interrupt to the processor and won`t release
> that request..so your PC has no choice but stop dead in it's tracks and go down to firmware level, and display the BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) of process. Something that some or even most PC users have experienced in an unstable processing environment.


This happened to me on a morning that I was scheduled to attend a WebEx meeting. I had previously found that using a speakerphone made it hard for me to hear the other parties, so I connected to a BT headset and tested that it was the default audio input and output device. I even used the audio recorder to make sure my mic level was good. Time for the meeting, I start WebEx, and boom I get the BSOD message. Now, I had to wait for the computer to reboot. This time yet another "Your computer encountered a problem" message. Power it off and on; finally it reboots into the O/S and I can start WebEx using a speakerphone. I was relieved at least that it didn't go into its "Diagnosing Problem".... "Starting Automatic Repair"... "too bad, so sad, it's broke" scenario. Still, I was late for the meeting. At the time, I didn't want to start researching the causes for the problem, I just needed to use my computer... now! That's why I have a computer - to use it, not to research and figure out why I can't.

Thank you for pointing me to the articles about that issue; so basically I can't use a BT headset on my desktop computer? I've used BT stereo headphones with it frequently, but I guess adding a mic is just too much for it to handle. Funny, I can pair the same BT headset with my el-cheapo Sony smartphone, and it never crashes. Sure, I understand that the level of complexity between a smartphone and a desktop is not even remotely comparable, but I wouldn't think that using a BT headset should present such a problem. 

I understand that not every computer, especially one that has been re-purposed, is guaranteed to run a new O/S. That's why I used the tool provided by MS to check the computer before installing Win 10; it said there were no issues. Had it said there was an incompatible motherboard or peripheral, I would never have installed it. MS is encouraging people to Win 10 by offering the free upgrade from 7 & 8. Usually, I would wait at least a year before I upgraded to a new O/S, but the free upgrade is time limited. Eventually, if you want to use any new software, you'll have to upgrade to Win 10. I still have an XP based machine; it nags all the time about not being supported, and even Google Chrome says my O/S is no longer supported. Resistance is futile; might as well be assimilated while it's free.


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## agent99

BigMonkey said:


> Windows 10 upgrade expiration is coming up soon for those are on the fence. I upgraded my old laptop to Windows 10 from Windows 7, so far it seems to be a pleasure to use in my limited time with it.


As the upgrade deadline approaches, it is something to think about. To retain the option to convert back to Win7/8, users could make a backup clone of their existing drive. Then switch back if Win10 just does not work for you at any time in future - not limited to 30 days. (I have gone back - I am more comfortable with Win 7 and besides, Win 10 does not come with free card games  ) 

You could even dual boot (have both OS's installed) This can be done, but I read on an MS site that once you upgrade to Win 10 you cannot run both OS's (just one license). I don't recall them saying that when they coerced us into an upgrade!


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## carverman

agent99 said:


> As the upgrade deadline approaches, it is something to think about. To retain the option to convert back to Win7/8, users could make a backup clone of their existing drive. Then switch back if Win10 just does not work for you at any time in future - not limited to 30 days. (I have gone back - I am more comfortable with Win 7 and besides, Win 10 does not come with free card games  )
> 
> You could even dual boot (have both OS's installed) This can be done, but I read on an MS site that once you upgrade to Win 10 you cannot run both OS's (just one license). I don't recall them saying that when they coerced us into an upgrade!


Not sure why you would run dual OS. However, if you want to do that, you must have the authentic MS Win 7 key (which is your license key) to give them if they demand it. 
I ran into this problem with an un-authentic version of Win 7 Ultimate that came with the used computer,
I bought off Kijji. After 30 days MS would nag me to buy their official Win 7 Ultimate for $199. 

They also started to do some nastys like black out my screen to remind me and popups every hour or so..to submit to their
demands and submit a genuine licence or buy their genuine software through their website.

I guess as long as you have the original data key safely stored, you could run both OS, but not at the same time of course.


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## agent99

carverman said:


> I guess as long as you have the original data key safely stored, you could run both OS, but not at the same time of course.


If you clone your Win 7 drive before upgrading, you have the key encrypted in your registry, so if you use that version, should work with no action on your part. (You should have this clone as a backup regardless). If you do the upgrade but want to revert after 30 days is up, you can still go back, but it may be a little more trouble. MS says you can go back any time. 
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...0/3692233e-553d-409e-96ac-2a2992207344?auth=1

So, I covered myself by doing the upgrade to Win 10 using a copy of my Win 7 drive (used separate drive). I used Win 10 briefly, saw no benefit, so reverted to my clone of original unupgraded Win7. I can swap drives and use Win 10 if I so wished but don't see why.


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## Durise

Yes, Windows 10 has some attractive things which are really good for professional use. Especially Cortona is amazing, It helps me in a different way. I suggest to all professionals to upgrade your OS to Windows 10.


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## james4beach

I'm Mac OS at the office, and Linux at home. I just converted my mom to Linux too; now she's running Ubuntu and is happy with it. Faster and more stable than anything she ran before.

In our office of nearly 100 people (most of them computer experts), less than 10% run Windows. We all get to choose what we want to run.

I will never buy another copy of MS Windows


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## humble_pie

another flight of disguised prep-for-windows-10 updates went out this past week. These are disguised as "important" (read critical) windows 7 or windows 8.1 updates, but reading further discloses that they are preparing for windows 10, nothing more.

not all machines that microsoft superficially proclaims to be compatible with windows 10 are, in fact, compatible. I am instructed that a great deal depends on whether or not your OEM has created drivers for your model that will work with windows 10. I'm further instructed that many of the Win 10 upgrade glitches are caused by the lack of proper drivers.

my personal choice is to possibly acquire Win 10 on my next machine. Meanwhile i object to clandestine attempts to worm Win 10 onto my present machine. 

i'm assuming that what cmf member brad suggested is true. Namely, that the ultimate MS Grand Design is to install Win 10 everywhere & then begin charging annual subscription fees. I've seen suggestions ranging as high as $100 USD per annum. With canadian taxes, that would work out to something like $150 CAD. 

all this will be a big change, for sure. Likely very profitable for microsoft, though.


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## james4beach

You're right humble_pie, it is _clandestine_. This process they are following is ethically wrong.


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## nate5

I think it's better than windows 10


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## MrPCMan

I upgraded from win 7 pro to win 10 pro 3 months ago, and knock on wood, no issues to date, in fact I hardly see any difference from my Win 7 Pro version. I recall very bad windows upgrades in the past, so no signs of that, thankfully.


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## zylon

WINDOWS SPYWARE REMOVAL (8 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEeZzYedEE


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## stantistic

*Court victory against Microsoft*

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...ushing-windows-10-in-aggressive-campaign.html


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## ian

I am sticking with 7 until my desktop dies. When it does, I am done with MS. Will replace it with Apple.

Have hardly used our notebook since we both went to Ipads. The latter has delivered wonderful utility to us since we travel often and always with only our ipads. It was difficult for me to move at first because I came from a long career in IT with an alternate technology vendor. The ipad has really grown on me.


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## humble_pie

microsoft sent me another GWX update today.

this one wasn't even disguised. It didn't arrive with a blathering description about how it was essential for internet security, blah blah (those ones you have to look further for the real description).

no, this one just brazenly announced its unwanted self upfront as the Get Windows 10 update.


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## SweetLake

I'm really happy with windows 10, no problems so far on 5 computers


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## agent99

SweetLake said:


> I'm really happy with windows 10, no problems so far on 5 computers


I have Win 10 on my old laptop (Did the upgrade there from Win 7 Pro just as a trial run). Tried it, but found that the new stuff (edge etc) and interface offered no improvement over Win 7 Pro. It also did not allow add-ons like LastPass. 

On my everyday laptop, I took advantage of the free upgrade, but kept a copy of Win 7 on a separate drive. I can now use either, but only use Win 7 Pro. The Win10 drive is essentially my backup (and I do run it once in a while to make sure it is current)

Bigger problem, is my wife's Vista Laptop. It has a low end Celeron processor. Still works fine for her uses, but many apps are no longer supported on XP/Vista. If I had a source for Win 7, I would try an upgrade. But maybe a $400 laptop would make more sense.


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## pwm

Edge now has the LastPass extension at the MS store.


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## Userkare

SweetLake said:


> I'm really happy with windows 10, no problems so far on 5 computers


I've had mixed results...

On one older computer, WIN 10 was working fine since I had installed the insider preview; then an 'update' decided that my video card was no longer supported. It fell back to a generic driver that didn't use the screen's full resolution; basically made the computer unusable for CAD work under Win 10 - I had to revert back to 7.

On two other computers, I've had incidences of... "Windows has found a problem, and needs to reboot your computer" then it does this several times in a row until it finally tells me it can't fix it, and I'm on my own. I have to restore the previous day's back-up. This morning, I powered up this very computer, and all I saw was the twirling balls display for at least 10 minutes - no HDD activity. I pressed the reset button, and luckily it started.

OTOH, my laptop, that the manufacturer does not even list as supporting Win 10, has been working flawlessly since I updated it. Maybe since I don't use it every day, I get the updates after they've been customer tested?


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## pwm

I received and installed via the normal update process, the "Creators Update", (Win 10 V1703) on 2 of my 3 Windows 10 PCs. Everything went well with no problems. The upgrade took about 2 hours total. I'm investigating the new features now. Thank you MS.


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