# Another "advice for buying used car" Thread



## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

Hi all! As the title states, I'm looking to *maybe* purchasing a used car.

Assets:
Cash: $13,000
RRSP: $7,300
TFSA: $41,600

Not going to touch the money in RRSP nor TFSA.

Debt:
None except for credit card which I pay off every month.

Salary: $42,000
24 years old

My daily commute is just a little over one hour each way and so to be a bit more comfortable I'm looking at a Ford Focus Titanium (the one with the touch screen). I checked on autotrader and they are between $14,000 and $18,000 for mileage ranging from 30,000 km to 60,000 km. I've also read that to be financially conscious, cars should only cost a maximum 20% of your salary, which puts my budget at $8,400. But the only cars available at this price is early 2000's and 200,000+ km.

Am I wrong in wanting to purchase the Focus? I don't want this to set myself back too much, if that makes sense. I have never spent money on a purchase this big before.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Cars are more often than not retarded money sucks.

I want an Audi but I don't buy one. Wants almost always exceed needs.

I bike, rent, and use the car share and save about 8K a year which is almost all of my TFSA room. Plus I'm in great shape. Just did a run with 4:45 m/km. Sweet.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

GreedIsGood said:


> I've also read that to be financially conscious, cars should only cost a maximum 20% of your salary, which puts my budget at $8,400. But the only cars available at this price is early 2000's and 200,000+ km.


Where do you live? I can find loads of Focii with way under 200K for $6000-8000.

Just two examples: http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/cto/5031028562.html
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/ctd/5011663582.html


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

none said:


> Cars are more often than not retarded money sucks.
> 
> I want an Audi but I don't buy one. Wants almost always exceed needs.
> 
> I bike, rent, and use the car share and save about 8K a year which is almost all of my TFSA room. Plus I'm in great shape. Just did a run with 4:45 m/km. Sweet.


Is any of this relevant to the question asked? Spare us your self-righteous frugalness.

Older cars are often value traps, especially with the rapid advancement in technology. Safety and fuel efficiency are continually improving which makes newer cars much more attractive. I think it is better value to buy a used car 2-4 years old that you can keep for a decade rather than an older model that will deteriorate rapidly costing a lot of money in repairs.

I have a friend that loves value trap older cars and every 6 months it's another $500 or $1000 to keep it running, not to mention the inconvenience.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

$14-$18K seems like a lot for a Ford Focus. That's an expensive touch screen.

Cars are possibly not a good financial choice for most people who live in cities...but neither are holidays, electronics, more expensive housing, dining out, dating, etc etc. It's a lifestyle thing....and living is important too. So calculate your costs (maint/ins/gas/pkg/etc) and decide if it's something you want to do. From what you've posted, you can afford the going rate.

Not so sure you should limit yourself to $8400 by an arbitrary rule you read, and I suspect you could do better than a Ford Focus for $14-$18K.

Overall you've saved well....so consider if this is the treat you want to give yourself.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> budget at $8,400. But the only cars available at this price is early 2000's and 200,000+ km.


in 2011 we bought a '09 Kia hatchwagon thing. It had 36K, lots of factory warranty and was $8K. Have used cars taken some huge jump?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> I've also read that to be financially conscious, cars should only cost a maximum 20% of your salary, which puts my budget at $8,400.
> 
> Am I wrong in wanting to purchase the Focus? I don't want this to set myself back too much, if that makes sense.


If you believed everything you read, you'd be destined for trouble. Your whole 20% maximum garbage is just some stupid guideline. You need to forget about the guidelines and do what is financially sound for _you._ If you start putting yourself in a box using the guidelines of others, you are never going to surpass other people and you will fail.

You're 24. Nothing wrong with wanting a decent car. My roommate has a 2014 Fiesta ST and he loves it.

What you really need to decide is if it is worth it _to you_ to purchase a car for 14-18k. What is your end goal? A House? Keep in mind that 14-18k is just the current lump sum cost of the car. The car will eat into your cash flow on a consistent basis (insurance, gas, maintenance, tickets, etc).

"If you play now, you're going to suffer later."


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

hystat said:


> in 2011 we bought a '09 Kia hatchwagon thing. It had 36K, lots of factory warranty and was $8K. Have used cars taken some huge jump?


I don't think this is going to appeal to a 24 year old who is inquiring about a Titanium Focus.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

CPA Candidate said:


> Is any of this relevant to the question asked? Spare us your self-righteous frugalness.
> .


Wow, I thought people like you were supposed to be jolly. Go eat another donut.

I was just providing a bit of info that cars are not the necessities that many people think they are. You can live very well (even better) without one.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

none said:


> I was just providing a bit of info that cars are not the necessities that many people think they are. You can live very well (even better) without one.


While this may be true for you, most other people's lives are greatly improved by owning a car, myself included.

Now of course this doesn't mean that you need to go into heavy debt to own one which is a financial issue/problem for many people. Buying a nice 4-5 year old car is a great way to have your cake and eat it too. Look for high volume compact cars (not the high end models) that have good reviews and once you've narrowed that down to a few choices, go look at the forums related to those cars for more detailed information. I bet with a little searching you could easily get into a nice car for 8-9k.

So to recap, *focus "good"* (likely best around the 2010-2011 model years) .... *titanium "bad"*.


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

nathan79 said:


> Where do you live? I can find loads of Focii with way under 200K for $6000-8000.
> 
> Just two examples: http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/cto/5031028562.html
> http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/ctd/5011663582.html


I live 1 hour north of Toronto. The SE is the most basic version of the Focus. The titanium is a trim higher. It is new for $30k so I'm asking if buying a 2-4 year used one is worth it (as opposed to buying the most basic trim of any car). 



KaeJS said:


> You're 24. Nothing wrong with wanting a decent car. My roommate has a 2014 Fiesta ST and he loves it.
> 
> What you really need to decide is if it is worth it _to you_ to purchase a car for 14-18k. What is your end goal? A House? Keep in mind that 14-18k is just the current lump sum cost of the car. The car will eat into your cash flow on a consistent basis (insurance, gas, maintenance, *tickets*, etc).


I don't really have an end goal in mind. If housing prices stay like they are, I'm probably going to be renting for a long time. I live in Newmarket with my parents still (I know, I know) and work in Brampton. I'm planning on moving out within the next year if I can find a job downtown and move closer. So I want to keep my budget in check hence why I started this thread.

Tickets? Me? Never!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

cainvest said:


> While this may be true for you, most other people's lives are greatly improved by owning a car, myself included.


I'm sure that's true. Prior to going car free I just hadn't really considered it. Once i tried it though I found it very liberating with a lot of perks.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

GreedIsGood said:


> I don't really have an end goal in mind. If housing prices stay like they are, I'm probably going to be renting for a long time. I live in Newmarket with my parents still (I know, I know) and work in Brampton. I'm planning on moving out within the next year if I can find a job downtown and move closer. So I want to keep my budget in check hence why I started this thread.
> 
> Tickets? Me? Never!


One option is rent a much nicer place and commute other ways. A car costs about 500-800 a months. that's a lot of rent.

http://caa.ca/car_costs/


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## Terminator (Dec 17, 2014)

I completely understand the argument that the really frugal guys have with car ownership. It usually is somewhat of a money pit and you can probably find cheaper options for transportation.

But with that being said, I think it really comes down to personal preference and what your goals are. I know for me, owning a vehicle and having to pay for related expenses, brings WAY more convenience, joy and practicality than saving 10k/year and having to walk, take a bus or hitch hike around lol  So the pros highly out weigh the cons for me. Same goes for home ownership. I could save WAY more money by living in an apartment, but I love owning my house and all the related things with it (I actually enjoy cutting the grass, doing up keep and keeping my property looking nice. I guess you could say it brings me joy and pride. And I can't really put a price tag on that)

Like my house, having a reliable vehicle is worth a lot to me in my life. I guess it all depends on what your income is and compare it to your debts, investments, etc and then you can make an educated decision if you want and can afford a car. I find sometimes people get so caught up in saving every single penny they earn, they forget to "live" and enjoy the luxuries of life and have fun.

As for car advice, my biggest advice would be to buy a car with remaining warranty. It can save you huge bills down the road and gives you peace of mind. Good luck with your search!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> The SE is the most basic version of the Focus. The titanium is a trim higher.
> 
> I don't really have an end goal in mind. If housing prices stay like they are, I'm probably going to be renting for a long time. I live in Newmarket with my parents still (I know, I know) and work in Brampton. I'm planning on moving out within the next year if I can find a job downtown and move closer. So I want to keep my budget in check hence why I started this thread.
> 
> Tickets? Me? Never!


First of all - I know a ton about cars. If you must get a Focus, then you should get the Titanium version. It is sexier.

Newmarket to Brampton is pretty far. That's at least a 1 hour drive one way. How do you get to work now? It sounds like you already have a car. I don't understand how anyone would get from Newmarket to Brampton without a car. I used to drive from Markham to Missisauga every day for work. You NEED a car.

*If your REAL question to the entire thread is:*

_"I have a car already but I want a new one, should I do it?"_

Then the answer to your thread is *"No."*

Please tell me you don't already have a car. When you say the words "I want to be more comfortable" it makes it seem like you already have a vehicle.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Also, tickets are fact of life.... especially if your name is KaeJS :biggrin:

Seriously - Here's an assumption that you do own a vehicle and are making the commute each day:

1) it probably costs you about $400/month in gasoline

2) you could rent a basement apartment in Mississauga (way better than B-town) for about $900/month. If you took into consideration your gas and time savings, then it isn't so bad, is it?


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I like what Terminator wrote...

It comes down to personal preference and what your goals are.

I like having an older car myself, 15-years old, costs very little to run and maintenance is about $500 per year. People pay more for their iPhones than that.

For me, that cost is worth it.

Having one decent and one older vehicle in our house works for us. Would I like a new car? Sure. But I don't need it. Having an older car is a small luxury I'm willing to pay for. 

If you're buying new, get 0% financing and plan to own the car for at least a decade.

If you're buying used, I'd stay within the 2-5 year-old range.


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## the_apprentice (Jan 31, 2013)

You're clearly pretty good at managing your money if you've managed to save and invest $50,000 by age 24. My suggestion would be to do what makes you happy. I am quite frugal myself and have only purchased new vehicles and do not regret it at all.

Stay within your allocated budget of $14k-18k and get the model you enjoy. Check out the Titanium model and see if those added benefits are worth the additional cost. Sometimes the extra features aren't needed, but heated seats are nice to have with our brutal winters.


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

KaeJS said:


> _"I have a car already but I want a new one, should I do it?"_
> 
> Then the answer to your thread is *"No."*
> 
> Please tell me you don't already have a car. When you say the words "I want to be more comfortable" it makes it seem like you already have a vehicle.


I have access to a car but I do not own it. It belongs to my mom and I've commuted for 3 years so I've put approx 80k on it and feeling guilty because it's not mine.



KaeJS said:


> 2) you could rent a basement apartment in Mississauga (way better than B-town) for about $900/month. If you took into consideration your gas and time savings, then it isn't so bad, is it?


That's actually not a bad idea except my job in Brampton is far from my dream job and I'm planning on moving within a year.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

We could go 50-50 on a townhouse in Mississauga. We can both live there and pay off the mortgage. We will put down $40k each....

I work in Mississauga but I commute from Cambridge. You work in Brampton but commute from Newmarket. It just seems like the right thing to do... Deal?


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

^I'd still need a car. Without a car is similar to house arrest.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

You can drive my truck in the summer and we can carpool in the winter. LOL


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

In a perfect world where you and I had a little bit more money... It would be a perfect scenario (and I would be 100% serious about doing it).


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

A Focus is not an expensive car and you do need something decent for your commute. It would make sense to spend the money and then, maintain the car by the book and run it for 300,000 400,000 km or more. 

This is quite possible to do, I used to work in a garage and we had customers who did this in the eighties. Their secret was, they did their maintenance or rather, paid us to do it. Their cars never broke down, when they needed brakes all they needed was a $35 set of pads not a complete $700 brake job because their rotor were not scored and their calipers were not seized up (benefit of changing brake fluid every 2 years and lubricating the sliders once a year).

We even had a customer who commuted nearly 200 miles a day in a Renault Alliance. They were the crappiest car in the world but he drove his more than 400,000 Km.

So, do your maintenance by the book and after 10 years you will amortize your investment down to where the annual cost is negligible.

PS when I say by the book I mean the owner's manual in the glove compartment. They all contain a maintenance schedule worked out by the company engineers who know your car inside and out but for some reason hardly anyone even looks at it.


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Their cars never broke down, when they needed brakes all they needed was a $35 set of pads not a complete $700 brake job because their rotor were not scored and their calipers were not seized up (benefit of changing brake fluid every 2 years and lubricating the sliders once a year).


Can you explain this part about the rotors? I'm driving my mom's 2011 Fiesta right now and I just paid $460 at the dealership replacing the brakes and rotors, right after 100,000 kms. Should I have done regular maintenance earlier?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

The rotors are circular discs that act as a surface for the brake pad to push against. This creates friction. This friction slows the car down. A caliper is the piece of equipment (part of the overall brake assembly) that essentially holds and applies the pressure from the brake pad to the rotor. Brake pads eventually wear down to essentially nothing. If you do not replace your brake pads in time, then the pins that hold the brake pad in place will end up scoring the rotor and damaging it. This is usually the high pitched squealing sound you hear when cars are coming to a stop. It usually means the pad has been worn to almost nothing and metal is rubbing against metal, thus creating the annoying sound.

If you do not slam on the brakes extremely hard and you always replace your pads when you should, then you almost never need to replace your rotors.

Applying heavy braking or excessive heat can also cause your rotors to warp.

Calipers can also seize if they are not taken care of. If this happens, you may not be able to replace the brake pad without replacing the caliper assembly.

If you paid $460 for pads and rotors, then you probably only got the front brakes done.

Also, the amount of the kilometers on the car has nothing to do with whether or not you need a brake job.


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## KevinWaterloo (Mar 5, 2015)

KaeJS said:


> The rotors are circular discs that act as a surface for the brake pad to push against. This creates friction. This friction slows the car down. A caliper is the piece of equipment (part of the overall brake assembly) that essentially holds and applies the pressure from the brake pad to the rotor. Brake pads eventually wear down to essentially nothing. If you do not replace your brake pads in time, then the pins that hold the brake pad in place will end up scoring the rotor and damaging it. This is usually the high pitched squealing sound you hear when cars are coming to a stop. It usually means the pad has been worn to almost nothing and metal is rubbing against metal, thus creating the annoying sound.
> 
> If you do not slam on the brakes extremely hard and you always replace your pads when you should, then you almost never need to replace your rotors.
> 
> ...


Just my $0.02. The information above is good and mostly true but with a few exceptions

Brake rotors almost never warp. That is a very common belief though. When rotors start to pulse it is usually because there is an uneven build-up of brake pad material on the rotor. You can sometimes fix this by bedding in the pad again. The usual process for this is by accelerating to ~100km/h and then maximal braking to ~20km/h...repeated about 10 times until brake fade occurs. This should be done whenever new pads are installed however very few people actually do this.
Rotors do wear down and should eventually be replaced. There is a minimum thickness of the rotor that is specified by the manufacturer. However it is usually possible to replace the pads at least once (and sometimes twice or more) before the rotors are below the minimum thickness. Some people recommended 'turning' the rotors on a lathe when installing new pads to improve the surface however I don't personally believe that it is really required. 

But I think the main points of the discussion above were that most shops charge $500 or more to do your brakes and it is often overkill. Most mechanics replace the rotors before they are worn, and the recommend brake pad replacement well before it is really required. I've replaced the brakes myself on every car I've owned for a fraction of the cost. And if you DIY you can often find the rotors for 1/2 price at Canadian Tire


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

My experiences, FWIW, with my 15-year-old Mazda.

Never replaced rotors to date.
As of today, now starting my third set of brake pads for the front, on my second for the back.

Back to the OP:
-A new or newer car with 0% financing is a decent way to go.
-If you maintain the car as others say, by the book, you should get a good 10 years out of the car, if not many more.
-Plan on keeping your new or newer car for at least 10-12 years, and you'll likely get your monies worth.

Enjoy the new ride if you go this route!


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## fcyloh82 (Dec 2, 2013)

I think that the cost of car ownership can be largely broken down to three spending categories:

1) Depreciation costs - I'm not sure if there's a way to augment this, other than to buy a vehicle used. Of course, this comes with added risk, but a well maintained used vehicle should not have much catastrophic failures.

2) Maintenance costs - I think this is where one has the highest ability to "hack" car ownership costs. I'll elaborate a bit here: 

- I think having an honest, fair, and capable mechanic is the only way to save (disregarding the DIY scenarios). I say this because great mechanics will offer you choices when it comes to car maintenance, allowing you to determine what's best for you. For example, your engine is leaking oil (from the valve cover) and you have to add 1L of oil during every oil change interval. A great mechanic will tell you that the fix would cost $250, but not fixing it won't cause further damage, or decrease the car's performance / efficiency. So now it becomes a cost calculation. Awesome. Unfavorable mechanics would simply tell you that it's bad for your car and it should be fixed.

I know great mechanics are far and few, since they're in the business of wanting your money, not understanding your financial needs (such is the conflict of interest). Honestly, I treat mechanics are salespeople. Perhaps asking around here could provide some insight.

If finding a great mechanic is not possible, performing maintenance as outlined by the manufacturer will save money in the long run (literature is available on the internet). And asking the right questions after researching on the vehicle's maintenance would help too. 

- I think that purchasing a super reliable vehicle that offers cheaper replacement parts may be a moot point. The reason is because you will paying a premium for its reliability, and given that the market depreciates the value of a car as a percentage, the cost savings related to reliability is negated by the higher depreciation costs. Arghs!

3) Licensing / Insurance / Unexpected events - Licensing fee is a constant, no way around it. You can shop around for insurance, or increase the potential financial risk by lowering coverage. Unexpected events ... well, that's a toughie.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

On brakes and rotors..........the biggest problem is using cheap brake pads.

That "dust" people see on their wheels is from the brake pads. It is corrosive and scores the rotors. 

Rotors are also manufactured today that are too thin to 'turn" on a lathe, which used to be a common practice.

Having worked in an auto parts warehouse, the difference in the quality of parts is readily apparent. 

The cheaper the car..............the cheaper the parts.

That is why parts for a Cadillac cost a lot more than parts for a Chevy Cruze.

Some cheap cars had "leaf springs" made of plastic, front bumpers made of Styrofoam and engines we could lift with one hand.

Use OEM parts or trade up to expensive new ones and they will last a lot longer.

And don't wait until the brakes start squealing or the fan belt starts to vibrate......... before having them changed.

A dollar spent in maintenance is worth a hundred dollars in repairs.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

fcyloh82 said:


> For example, your engine is leaking oil (from the valve cover) and you have to add 1L of oil during every oil change interval. A great mechanic will tell you that the fix would cost $250, but not fixing it won't cause further damage, or decrease the car's performance / efficiency. So now it becomes a cost calculation. Awesome. Unfavorable mechanics would simply tell you that it's bad for your car and it should be fixed.


That would be a pretty poor example I would think.

A leak from a valve cover means the gasket is leaking, which means it has an area that has worn away and will continue to deteriorate. This would not only affect engine performance, but eventually the gasket would erode further and it is possible that all the oil could blow out of the engine at once. Engines don't run well without oil.

It would be lot smarter to replace the gasket than replace the engine.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Whenever discussion on used cars comes up, it invariable is said that used cars don't require a lot of repair costs.

While that may be true in individual cases, by and large the older the car, the higher the mileage.............the more it costs to keep in running order.

Mechanical parts have a shelf life. They break down with use over time.

Think of how many revolutions the engine parts are making as you drive down the road at 120 kph.

The belts, hoses, steel parts, electronics all working in unison to propel the vehicle forward. 

It is truly amazing that cars have advanced as far as they have, considered the complex systems that go into them and the stress and abuse they suffer.

A used car...........a couple of years old and inspected and certified by an OEM dealer who serviced the car............is a good buy.

An older used car on a used car lot, or from somebody on Autotrader is buying a pig in the poke. These are cars the new car dealers didn't want on their lots.

There is a used car auction just up the road from us. They hold regular auctions that are attended by used car dealers and "sidewalk vendors".

They buy old vehicles for $500.........drag them home and fix them up enough to sell them for $5,000.

Unless you put the car up on a hoist, you can't see the suspension, exhaust system, steering system, fuel system, or frame. 

Unless you stress test the car and check the compression levels of the engine, pressure test the cooling system and strip off the wheels to look at the braking system, you won't know where the future problems may be.

Buying a used car from a new car dealer means they did all that inspection...........and are putting their reputation behind the sale.

It isn't a guarantee, but it is better than buying a vehicle and finding about the troubles later.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

My rule of thumb is if it's dripping on the floor, fix it... if it just "sweating" around the gasket, ignore it. It's common for older vehicles to have sweats around most of the engine gaskets. You could spend over $1000 replacing all of them.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Shoot...............all this talk makes me want to buy a house again.............with a 3 car garage in the back...........with a hoist.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Actually, forget the house.................I just want the garage.

I miss my "toys" all shined up and looking back at me...........sniffle, sniffle..............


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## fcyloh82 (Dec 2, 2013)

sags said:


> That would be a pretty poor example I would think.
> 
> A leak from a valve cover means the gasket is leaking, which means it has an area that has worn away and will continue to deteriorate. This would not only affect engine performance, but eventually the gasket would erode further and it is possible that all the oil could blow out of the engine at once. Engines don't run well without oil.
> 
> It would be lot smarter to replace the gasket than replace the engine.


I think your commentary could benefit from a bit more context. The mechanic has already assessed the situation and deemed the fix as non-critical, but will advise the owner to check the oil levels more frequently, and as nathan79 stated, if it ain't dripping on the ground, one can ignore it. 

I fully agree that an older car with higher mileage will inherently cost more to maintain (it's a direct correlation). But let's get back to the OP's concern. Being as objective as possible, I do think that there's an optimum solution (whoa, an optimization problem!?), balancing the age (or mileage) of a vehicle with its associated reliability. Personally, I think there are two sweet spots:

1) A slightly used car (4 years or so) with lower mileage (around 60k) with some period of OEM warranty left. You're saving the massive depreciation costs accrued during its first 4 years of ownership, but you're still benefiting from a relatively new car that requires no major maintenance (assuming the previous owner had great maintenance records). As mentioned by sags, I'd recommend purchasing a used vehicle from Car Dealerships that are certified by the manufacturer. Why? Because they offer extended warranty and are allowed to choose first when leased vehicles are auctioned. Used car dealerships get second, and thus, crappier pickings. 

2) A much older car with very high mileage (around 150k to 200k). There's no warranty left, but the previous owner had already replaced a ton of parts that are "scheduled" to wear out at higher mileages (i.e., timing belt, water pump, bushing / suspension joints, muffler etc.). You're benefiting from a vehicle that has newer wearable parts and shouldn't require any major maintenance in the immediate term. This is a tougher solution since you'd require the know-how's to assess a vehicle's condition, or have a great mechanic to help you with it. 


I hope this helps the OP out.


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## fcyloh82 (Dec 2, 2013)

sags said:


> Shoot...............all this talk makes me want to buy a house again.............with a 3 car garage in the back...........with a hoist.


Yessss !!!

"Garage with a hoist".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I would agree with your number 1 and disagree with number 2

Most people who buy an old used car beat the living daylights out of them and run them into the ground.

Spending money to maintain a beater defeats the purpose of buying one, which is either to save money on transportation costs or because they don't have the money.

I see people driving around in beater cars all the time, with the suspension leaning to one side or the exhaust hanging down.

I have 2 small dings in my new car..........one on each front door. I would be pretty confident it wasn't a guy in a new Cadillac who created them.

Old beaters are what I try to stay away from in parking lots...........but it doesn't always work.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Spending money to maintain a beater defeats the purpose of buying one


Generally not so if you can work on the car yourself, most maintenace parts are pretty cheap, even the quality ones. As an example, my daily driver just got a completely new front suspension for under $400, hate to see what the shop cost would have been.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yea, some people take pride in whatever they own and want their family driving in a safe vehicle.

Many others though.........drive down the street oblivious to the clouds of black smoke, squealing fan belts, and sagging springs.

They are in the "what do you do when you hear a noise.........turn the radio up louder" crowd.

I read awhile ago, that vehicles from U-Haul were the worst maintained vehicles the MTO found in road checks, and a lot of them are stationed at mechanic garages or have access to servicing. They just don't care. There is no money in fixing up the vehicles for them.

Kudos for doing your own work.........as it is not only cheaper but you know it is done right.

A lot of people don't want to get their hands dirty though, and know nothing about vehicles.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I don't know if anyone remembers them, but there used to be "do it yourself" garages around, who supplied the bay, hoist and tools.

People rented the bay by the hour and fixed their own cars. They were quite popular at the time.

But they have gone the way of roller rinks and A&W curb service. People just aren't interested in fixing their own cars anymore.

People are becoming less capable these days.

My son spends some work time fixing fence gate latches..........people can't seem to figure out how to move them up or down.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A good read that people who love cars and garages can relate to...........

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...e-hoist-where-did-it-go-wrong/article4180513/


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