# Media Hypnosis



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Whether it is the main stream media or the alternative media I feel most people get hypnotized by the message and go with it.

After 9/11 we were told to watch out for muslims be on guard for terrorists and we must go to war against Afghanistan and then Iraq. We were then sold by the government and the media to accept tons of security at airports and everywhere.

Today the media must sell us on the Syrian refugees by showing us the images and of course the majority buy into it in this country and here. The media won't show us the negative images or did you know that boy drowned on the beach was actually the son of the boat driver who was smuggling the refugees in from Syria. I am not saying for sure but that is what I have heard from other sources.

So going back to post 9/11 and the watch out for muslims and be on your guard message, why is it all of a sudden OK to bring them in from Syria to countries all over the world? I am not saying we shouldn't do so to help those in need but why are muslims bad for security and the country before but now bring them in by the thousands.

Another question I ask but many on the forum and elsewhere don't think about is why all of a sudden in the last few years did Egypt, Ukraine, Syria and Libya have to be overthrown and disrupted? Why is ISIS suddenly here and on the scene? Or why is Russia and China suddenly the biggest enemies? The government and the media told you so, or hyped it up so we would believe. I am not saying they are not issues, just that why does the media suddenly bombard us and usually it will be focused over a short time and then they move to the next thing. Like look how big a story Ebola was for a short time then it is ISIS or something and then we sort of forget about Ebola. 

The media also sells us the government job numbers and stats on the economy at face value but never digs into it. They also don't dig or report very deeply into the market manipulations of the central banks and such. Much of the truth I believe they withhold from us to make us see the picture they want us to see. Of course they will bring out a few experts on the other side of the story but it is few and far between so that the main message that government or the Fed wants to send is what gets sold.

From what I understand the mainstream media is owned by just a few corporations who control what comes out of it. I am not saying don't watch the news but I am saying keep an open mind and question what you see or fall victim and accept something that may haunt you down the road. I believe the Ukraine situation is one of those messages that Harper has pushed that could haunt us if it comes to a conflict with Russia. Wouldn't it be terrible if a war of some kind happened and you found out it was really about taking Ukraine gold, growing Monsanto GMO food in Ukraine and to punish Russia for not using the US dollar. I am not saying this is the case but it could be part of it and the mainstream media will never tell you.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

dogcom, did you know that zerohedge, your favourite source of news, is being run by a Bulgarian national? His father was a KGB agent. Rumours are zerohedge was created and is being financed by the Russian secret service. The goal of the site is to spread propaganda that discredits the West.

You tell us that mainstream media brainwashes us. Meanwhile, you get your news from a propaganda site that spreads paranoia. Give you head a shake.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I am not sure if the chicken is coming before the egg here or vice versa but all media outlets are constantly struggling to find out what the people want to see and then trying to provide it. The only hypnosis that I see them providing comes in the form of their commercials. 

Anyway, when you see a story being played out at nausea the real question is "why do the viewers want to see this"? That is where the real mystery is, if you ask me.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

^^


this is 100% false. In wars & in disrupted situations - it looks like half the planet is profoundly disrupted these days - the war correspondents are often braver than the soldiers. Many journalists have been killed while searching for facts & truth. 

journalists are trained to scrupulously report all sides of a story. What they file has nothing to do with what the producers & the network managers decide to show. It's the network nobs who try to please advertisers, but that only some of the time. For the most part we in the west benefit from a free press. 

all of my life, i've been astonished & delighted every single day by the quantities of underground news, the volumes of other-side-of-the-story facts that i see published in lead media such as the ny times & the globe & mail.

the slew of paranoid stories that dogcom has launched, where on earth does he think he got them from? answer: from the media, of course. From the free press that we all enjoy. The same free press that discovered & reported on a couple who were willing to state that the father of the drowned little boy was, in reality, the owner & captain of the rubber dinghy. It may even turn out that this is the truth, although the facts have not been established yet.

both the accredited media & the experienced free-lance are trained to search hard & deep for truth & facts. There's no alternative to the news they present, other than state-owned propaganda the way they do it in china & iran.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

WOW - 100% false. That is quite a high level of wrongness.

If you think CNN does not have an hourly reading on ratings you need to relook at things. If the ratings on a story dropped precipitously that story would be axed within hours. That is how TV works. Their goal is to generate viewership so they can sell advertising at the highest rates possible. At least that is the goal of the people at the top.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> ... how TV works. Their goal is to generate viewership so they can sell advertising at the highest rates possible. At least that is the goal of the people at the top.




exactly. It's a profit-oriented business like any other. What would you like instead, state-owned propaganda machines as in china?

what i know is that professional journalists are trained to get all sides of a story & when they get out in the field, this is what they do. Parts of their reports may later be edited, stories may be killed & story ideas may even be killed before the work is done, because the theme doesn't conform to editorial policy.

but my point is that enough facts easily get through so that anybody with a quarter of a brain can make out what's happening. Or can see when the known facts are still ambiguous.

for example, i knew about the alternative father/captain/drowned boy story, probably long before dogcom. There was never any confusion in my mind. Journos reporting on that story as it unfolded, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, did report accurately.

a few days ago mainstream media reported that a couple had suddenly told reputable journalists that the father of the little boy was actually the owner of the dinghy, to whom they themselves had paid money for passage. Tragically, they had lost 2 of their own children in the capsizing. Anyone can see that there may be merit to this version, but as of now it's impossible to know the truth.

if i saw that story, dogcom could have seen that story, you could have seen that story, there is nothing whatsoever to accuse the media about.

the problem is not the media nor the breadth of their coverage nor the accuracy of their facts. The problem is irresponsible mob psychology addicts who can't be bothered to think for themselves. After all, it's so much easier to blame something nebulous & big instead of taking responsibility for oneself. It's so much easier to blame the media. Blame taxes. Blame this political party, or that political party.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

dog, mainstream media is daily being undermined by social media and all kinds of alternative media
people read their news on facebook or google news or ??
and the big companies that own big media are not that smart or well organized to pull off mass hypnotism of their readers
soory dog, you parrot a completely false but cornerstone meme of the new-world-order-black-helicopter crowd
the rothschilds are *not* actually running the world


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

It'll all change if you....."Don't be a chump, & vote for Trump"!


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> dogcom, did you know that zerohedge, your favourite source of news, is being run by a Bulgarian national? His father was a KGB agent. Rumours are zerohedge was created and is being financed by the Russian secret service. The goal of the site is to spread propaganda that discredits the West.
> 
> You tell us that mainstream media brainwashes us. Meanwhile, you get your news from a propaganda site that spreads paranoia. Give you head a shake.


You are right goldstone you should doubly scrutinize anything you read in the alternative media or the internet. In fact I will give a harder test and find me articles where zerohedge is bullish on the stock market. Zerobull might be a more fitting name for the site. This is why my first sentence warns of the same hypnosis applies to the alternative media.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Fatcat no where do I suggest black helicopters, the message I am trying to send is one of questioning what you see instead of being hypnotized by being with the majority on an issue. Opstyeagle has the most probable handle on this in that the media puts out what the vast majority of viewers want to see to sell adds. At the same time however they form opinion to go a certain way and the crowd follows. 

Still however I ask questions of why now for overthrowing countries that were stable before. Many here or elsewhere don't question it because we are told it is good for democracy or whatever in these countries. Instead it has been a complete disaster and now we have this refuge problem. 

I know I am all over the place here but on the forum on many threads the comments tend to go like 90 percent in favour of what the media says on subjects. This gives me the impression that we are not questioning or challenging what we see on the media.

If for example the mainstream media could bombard us and form arguments against homosexuality almost to the point of hatred and condemnation what would happen on the forum. What I think would happen is the vast majority would support this position if someone brought up the thread and scold those who apposed the view. Some may have set views already on this subject but I am not directing my attention to you but to the ones who don't really have a strong view on the subject.

Humble I agree with you I do try to give alternative stuff on subjects that is out there sometimes. Sometimes I just want to hear what people have to say to stuff to see if there is any truth in it. Also there are journalists who get their hands dirty and do a good job but may not be able to get their message out for reasons you sited or what ostyeagle had to say.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

my 2 cents worth on "the media":
- it all started to change the night they followed OJ Simpson around, up & down the freeway, and the news/soap opera that developed from there.
- then came the nightly video game-like live coverage of the "gulf wars"
- 9/11 - need i say more?
- then there was the "Farrah syndrome". Poor farrah fawcet, for those that don't remember, had the misfortune to die a few days before michael jackson. for a few days, she was being praised & sainted all over the mediums. then, michael jackson died -and it was like "Farrah WHO?". I don't think they even covered her funeral.
- then they made all the news anchors, including the venerable Mansbridge, stand up.
- now, it appears they can't keep any one shot/scene on for a 5-second count before switching to the next shot, for fear they'll test the attention span of today's audience.
-and The President - The President of the United States is "tweeting".
It's all just the slow decline & the general "dumbing down" of society. David Bowie was right!
Oh - I nearly forgot: stakeholders, going forward, in the space, on the ground, no compromise... and the little-heard "sustainability"
"And that's the way it is..."


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh...don't forget...whoever currently promises bringing the most Syrian refugees into Canada will most likely form our government for the next 4 years...that is unless we can stage a picture of something more heart wrenching next week.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Jargey3000 you forgot the most important person in the media of them all Kim Kardashian. I heard a news anchor or something walked off the set because he was so sick of talking about unimportant stories about Km Kardashian.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

I rest my case.
(and what about bruce jenner- good lord!, or just yesterday, the 18-yearold down in florida, out on the back porch, a cowboy bandanna over his face, giving his blow-by-blow to the media frenzy: he'd JUST...SHOT...HIS...FATHER!!)


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

I would totally support this cause (just saw the article in Toronto Star... ): Yemenis under siege in Canada amid civil war back home

“Yemen is experiencing one of the most terrifying and devastating times ever. Thousands of civilians have (lost) and continue to lose their lives every day. We got calls from many of our members here asking for help,” said Al-Serri, whose group represents about 1,500 families in the Greater Toronto Area.

“These students and visitors do not wish to apply for refugee status because they just want to return home after the crisis is over. But some of them have already run out of money. Their status is expiring soon, and they could face removal to Yemen which is still at war.”

...

“The country is in chaos now. The banks and everything are shut down. No one can transfer money out. Right now, the concern is financial,” said the 20-year-old from Sanaa. *“I just hope to be able to find a job to help support myself. All we need is time.”*

Nezar Al-Akwaa, an immigrant from Yemen, said he is worried for the safety of his parents and three sisters back home. *The engineer and others in the Yemeni Canadian community would like Ottawa to allow their loved ones to come to Canada on temporary visas*.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Your right just because they don't get the big media attention doesn't mean we can't help them at this time. If this is true I would support this cause as well if it is handled properly.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

jargey3000 said:


> my 2 cents worth on "the media":
> - it all started to change the night they followed OJ Simpson around, up & down the freeway, and the news/soap opera that developed from there ...
> - 9/11 - need i say more? ...


Whereas I've seen many cases over the years where people just weren't paying attention or were accepting what was written without any questioning.

What's claimed? 
"If triggered, the $6 million severance is the biggest in Canadian business history."

What was in the business section almost ten year before?
"Angry shareholders demand explanation for paying severance of $16 million for *nine* months work as CEO of a Canadian company."


A good chunk of it is a focus on other things (ex. sports results) and little to no attention until coverage or actions make it hard to ignore.


Cheers


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

dogcom said:


> Fatcat no where do I suggest black helicopters, the message I am trying to send is one of questioning what you see instead of being hypnotized by being with the majority on an issue. Opstyeagle has the most probable handle on this in that the media puts out what the vast majority of viewers want to see to sell adds. At the same time however they form opinion to go a certain way and the crowd follows.
> 
> Still however I ask questions of why now for overthrowing countries that were stable before. Many here or elsewhere don't question it because we are told it is good for democracy or whatever in these countries. Instead it has been a complete disaster and now we have this refuge problem.
> 
> ...


but the mainstream media doesn't exist, it's been scattered to the wind, any reasonable intelligent person can now check and read the news in a thousand places while sitting at home in their pj's

facebook is the mainstream media, twitter is the mainstream media, wikileaks is the mainstream media, there are millions of news blogs that are the mainstream media

we see people ditching their cable connections which means that cbc and ctv and cbs are losing their voice of authority

if you say that 90 percent go in favour of what the media says on a subject then that tells me you don't read enough media

there are tens of thousands of alternative media outlets in north america alone both on the left and the right


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

What you describe could be even worse because the alternative media can be even better at hypnotizing people. In fact what we need is a free and open mainstream media that is able to report like they did in the past and not drive people to the alternatives. I believe the money and such has corrupted or is controlling the media like it has congress and the government. it has always been the case to some extent but I believe it has become much worse in the last decade or so.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

dogcom said:


> What you describe could be even worse because the alternative media can be even better at hypnotizing people.


:biggrin: when did we ever have a free and open mainstream media ?

how do you think fdr covered up his polio ? or jfk covered up all his affairs ? my god dog, the media was more controlled by fewer people in 1950 than it is today by a long shot

there was NO alternative media in 1950, none, except for very small left and right wing newsletters and tabloids with circulation to their own people

how are all these policemen now finally being charged with murder for abusing black men dog ? ... that has been going on for 100 years and only now is being finally faced and this is because of alternative media like youtube and live leaks and vimeo


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Sure it has always been directed or coerced in some way for sure. I could be wrong and humble may be a better expert here but back in the day it seemed like they covered the Vietnam war and Watergate pretty well. I don't know if they would run the stuff today to the same extent they went after Nixon back then.

You are also right that there has always been bad stuff happening that wasn't reported before like it is today. On the other hand are we getting the entire story when we see some of these alternative video clips.

Also on another note from what I understand white people being thrashed around are not reported to the same degree as black people getting thrashed around.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Like it or not, Canada has an obligation to bring Syrians to Canada. We are directly involved with bombing and destroying their country, killing civilians, and forcing the citizens to flee. We do this with every bomb that we drop into their country.

If you don't want Canada taking Syrian refugees, then the first thing you should demand is that we stop bombing their country. I can actually understand this position... if someone says, let's STOP our military intervention and STOP taking refugees, that makes some sense.

But bombing them and then refusing to take refugees is about the most callous thing one could do in this situation.

_Summary_: don't want Syrian refugees? Stop bombing and destroying their country, and stay out of their conflict.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Actually I am in the camp of leaving Syria the way it was along with Ukraine, Egypt and Libya. Instead they or the west bomb or disrupt these countries and create ISIS for whatever gain they hope to make. But I can assure you democracy is at the bottom of the list. In saying this have you heard anywhere on the mainstream media a view like this. Maybe a few reporters wanted to report it but it goes against the corporate agenda.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Like it or not, Canada has an obligation to bring Syrians to Canada. We are directly involved with bombing and destroying their country, killing civilians, and forcing the citizens to flee. We do this with every bomb that we drop into their country.
> 
> If you don't want Canada taking Syrian refugees, then the first thing you should demand is that we stop bombing their country. I can actually understand this position... if someone says, let's STOP our military intervention and STOP taking refugees, that makes some sense.
> 
> ...




james don't you think there's a disregard for logic here though? germany, sweden & others are not bombing ISIL targets in iraq & syria but they are accepting syrian refugees willingly. Where do you see any precise correlation between bombing & rescuing?

even if canada & the other coalition members were to withdraw, ISIL would continue slaughtering non-believers with the trademark atrocity & social media coverage that has been designed to terrify. ISIL would continue to kill innocents & hostages in paris, london, amsterdam, new zealand, new delhi & ottawa, canada.

james have you seen the intended caliphate map? it's a gigantic region that stretches from southern russia through the entire middle east, then across north africa from egypt to morocco. Oops.

somewhere between now & that, there has to be a peace table. Somewhere along the way, the rest of the world has to have an effect on radical islam. So far, many in the west speak of ISIL as aliens who are not human, but i don't believe that. I believe they have to have commercial, trade & banking relationships with the rest of the world & sooner or later it's going to be possible to influence these, ie tame down their effects outside their territory. Sooner or later the present ISIL killers will be replaced by Gen2. Even the Khmer Rouge did not last very long.

i'm interested in who the mystery financial supporters of ISIL are, the wealthy individuals or states who are said to be funneling funds to ISIL through Qatar, although the chief culprit is said to not necessarily be the emir or his family. I'm interested because if we know who these persons & states are, we will know better how to leverage them.

eventually the bombing will have to stop & everyone will have to sit down at the peace table. Those future participants are still in shadows - evidently russia has recently decided to join them! - but it's possible to make out a new arab state in the middle east. Possibly 2 new states, al Nusra is not part of ISIL. 

james, you didn't notice the resident cmf soldier - the only person on here who has ever set foot in the actual contested territory - when he posted, very reasonably & pacifically, that the west should prepare to give the arabs back some of their oil? 

the question will be how much oil, which oil wells, where will the boundaries of the new state be drawn.

in the meantime, until we can better identify who are the real funders & the real politico-philosophers of radical ISIL, i for one am not against the controlled bombing that is limited to targetted ISIL military strongholds. I don't believe for one second that the coalition is bombing the countryside or the cities indiscriminately.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

dogcom said:


> ... In fact what we need is a free and open mainstream media that is able to report like they did in the past and not drive people to the alternatives.
> 
> I believe the money and such has corrupted or is controlling the media like it has congress and the government. it has always been the case to some extent but I believe it has become much worse in the last decade or so.


Hmmm ... Hearst owned something like twenty-eight newspapers, he creates a Chicago newspaper at the request of the Democratic National Committee, his papers engage in yellow journalism, he published untrue stories about Spanish atrocities in Cuba which inflames the US public opinion (a major factor in the president's decision) and is praised for his role in creating the Spanish-American war.

It seems the money/misleading has been entrenched for a long time.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ... i'm interested in who the mystery financial supporters of ISIL are, the wealthy individuals or states who are said to be funneling funds to ISIL through Qatar, although the chief culprit is said to not necessarily be the emir or his family. I'm interested because if we know who these persons & states are, we will know better how to leverage them.


Question is ... are they now close to self supporting?
http://www.newsweek.com/isis-islamic-state-baiji-iraq-syria-oil-283524
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/world/meast/isis-funding/index.html


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Eclectic12 said:


> Question is ... are they now close to self supporting?




these links are weak or outdated pieces of journalism imho. The cry that ISIL supports itself by selling oil was raised almost a year ago, surely has been discounted by now.

the topic has been discussed in cmf forum. There are only 2 relatively small fuel pipelines through turkey, north to turkish ports. One pipe carries oil from kurdistan. AFAIK it's still operating. The other transports or used to transport gas from syria, i don't know its state at present.

an ISIL oil industry in northern iraq (imho there is no such industry at present, but that's a different story) would have to export oil via turkey. Certainly could not use existing southern transport which is baghdad, ie US, controlled.

failing the solitary kurdistan pipeline, northern oil export into turkey would have to be driven by trucks. Radar would pick up such convoys. Except that radar isn't picking up any convoys.

one can see the weakness in the CNN video, where the journo tries to claim that clandestine citizen demand for smuggled ISIL oil in southern turkey is mopping up enough oil to substantially fund ISIL operations. That's a stretch imho.

i for one would doubt that, at this point in time, ISIL yet has a corps of engineers who are technically capable of running an oil well/refinery conglomerate. They may develop such a corps in time, but so far there's no evidence they have such manpower. My guess would be that most refineries they do capture - it's clear that both ISIL & al Nusra concentrate on capturing refineries - will be temporarily mothballed due to lack of trained personnel.

re funding in general, i believe the west should investigate & know far more. ISIL has big donors, also obtains funds from seling art & artefacts from the plundered antiquities, also obtains funds from kidnapping ransoms, also obtains funds as local taxes levied upon syrian & iraqui citizens (these might be almost indistinguishable from ransoms,) possibly also obtains funds from selling smuggled oil but not to the extent some overly-imaginative media were claiming a year ago.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I recall as well discussing ISIL selling millions of barrels of oils a year or so ago.
From what I recall, the story originated in a news report by RT and was picked up by ZeroHedge.
From that point on, it took a life of its own and started showing up everywhere.

ISIL cannot be doing this without the active involvement of Turkey.
Why would Turkey support ISIL?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

thankx RT & zerohedge are such impeccable sources each:

i'm skeptical about any video claiming that wild, mountainous, impoverished southeastern turkey is such a rich region that it is able to buy a few truckloads of smuggled oil to sell at $7.50 per gallon & that is the true story behind the funding of ISIL's entire operation, haha.

me i think it's time for the west to stop thinking of ISIL as some sub-human gang of alien hyenas that can conveniently be exterminated. Perhaps we should start thinking that we all live on the planet together & somehow we will all need to sit down at the peace table together. Meanwhile the atrocities are to be stopped.

first, though, we need to know ISIL better. Right now the west seems to have a lot of understandable fear & anger, but imho these are getting in the way of proper perception.

the other day i read this interesting article in the NY Times (most Times stories are interesting) which featured a group of US historians discussing ISIL & they said how just about every revolution is violent in its beginning. The french revolution, russia, china, vietnam, ireland, they all routinely purged their enemies, critics & non-adherents as quickly as they could, in order to consolidate power.

one historian pointed out that the US itself was unique in that it had not massacred millions of its own immediately after 1776.

one tiny factoid i read in the short history of syrian migration to canada resonated with me. The factoid said that the large region called syria had been, prior to conquest by the ottoman turks in the 16th century, extremely prosperous. One thinks of the phoenicians, the commerce of the original ancient Sillk Road which ended in the region. 

but then, under the turks, wealth was siphoned away during the 16th to 20th centuries. The large region, which included today's syria, lebanon, israel, gaze, jordan, iraq, i'm not sure about iran, decayed into poverty.

not to be flippant, but it seems britain, france & the US ended up with the region as booty captured from turkey after WW I. The three western powers then named local strongmen as rulers. We pretty much all know that the mideastern royals of today (syria, jordan, saudi arabia, the late shah of iran) are the descendants of army generals only a couple of generations ago.

so perhaps that 1918 slicing up of the region, which paid no attention to existing religious divisions among the resident peoples, has turned out to be inappropriate & shortsighted, in a word, disastrous.

some cmf members have shown that they have a grip on where ISIL came from. From sadam huddein's ba'ath party. The US invasion of iraq inflamed, made things worse. A likely consequence of the bombing, especially if it goes on too long, is that things will be made worse yet again.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Like it or not, Canada has an obligation to bring Syrians to Canada. We are directly involved with bombing and destroying their country, killing civilians, and forcing the citizens to flee. We do this with every bomb that we drop into their country.
> 
> If you don't want Canada taking Syrian refugees, then the first thing you should demand is that we stop bombing their country. I can actually understand this position... if someone says, let's STOP our military intervention and STOP taking refugees, that makes some sense.
> 
> ...


this spinelessness is a part of the canadian character that i despise ... people are being slaughtered and you want to do nothing ... you want your precious humanitarian mission but no fighting, no blood spilled ... you want everyone else to do the fighting


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

Humble Pie. A voice of reason and insight. 

Yes, the Evil Empire of America, British, and French did collect the riches of the shattered Ottoman Empire. They have done so in many countries. 

One only has to look at Che, the hero or villain in South America/Cuba. He was part of the remaining aristocracy. As a young Doctor, he travelled South America by motor cycle and turned communist after seeing the state of the average person, especially the natives. His goal-to unite South America into one country, kicking out the Americans and British. The Americans and British would only trade in fruit and mining, if they owned the mines, farms and infrastructure (bridges, trains, etc). Hence, the "banana republics". This is likely not news to you. However, western ruthlessness has no limits. Perron tried to kick out the west and trade stopped. A communist leader was elected in Chile and the CIA assassinated him and put in their dictator of choice. Interestingly, Nobel peace prize winner Henry Kissinger was at the helm. The proof of his signing the assassination papers was released on CBC news the evening before 9/11 so few people are aware. The Americans went as far as forming the famous Green Berets to hunt down Che and stop any anti American Revolution or sentiment in central and South America. The CIA, boosted the leaders of other countries.

The wests interference has caused unrest around the world for over 100 years-more with the British. And yes, there will likely be a genocide, eradicating one decenting side before there is peace in the Muslim world, if ever. Pity, but as you stated, it has been the path to statehood for known history. Hopefully peace negotiations will prevail as you say, but I'm not a believer. Too many western interests complicate things and would be lost in the quest for peace. The West will never allow a united Muslim territory.

As far as ISIL being a threat beyond isolated terrorism and regional conflict, only time will tell.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

GPM tis late in the day & my options are calling but may i make a humble suggestion?

newspaper style is to divide thick blocks of text up into numerous paragraphs. 

like so.

it does make for easier reading (i will get to your message later when i have more time, but at first glance it's a bit solid & heavy on the eyes.)

i'm only posting this because you have worthwhile things to say, donc je voudrais les mettre en valeur. each:


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> GPM tis late in the day & my options are calling but may i make a humble suggestion?
> 
> newspaper style is to divide thick blocks of text up into numerous paragraphs.
> 
> ...


Will change. . Actually majored in English briefly, but tend to write most of my replies in a hurry on the bus. I appreciate the compliment and your interest.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

GPM said:


> Will change. . Actually majored in English briefly, but tend to write most of my replies in a hurry on the bus. I appreciate the compliment and your interest.


As per google translator, "donc je voudrais les mettre en valeur" means "so I would highlight them" :smilet-digitalpoint


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

I knew it must be of significance A cool post. Thanks. I am embarrassingly unilingual!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> A communist leader was elected in Chile and the CIA assassinated him and put in their dictator of choice. Interestingly, Nobel peace prize winner Henry Kissinger was at the helm.


 and Guatemala, Nicaragua ? the list is endless ... Invasion of Grenada ....


> total number of U.S. troops reached some 7,000 along with 300 troops from the OAS


 while , even now, ALL Grenada population is barely 100,000


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

rarely agree with Asad, but now he's right



> Syrian President Bashar Assad is blaming Europe for the migration crisis, saying it's a direct result of the West's support for extremists in Syria over the past four years.
> 
> In an interview with Russian media, Assad accused Europe of supporting "terrorism" and providing "protection for terrorists, calling them moderates."
> 
> ...


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

GPM perhaps i could come & be your chauffeur?

you could test speak sentences to me while i'm at the wheel & i'd say things like paragraph or full stop.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

c'est qui, ce voyou dans sa bagnole d'occasion?


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

GPM said:


> I am embarrassingly unilingual!


Just type "translate: [foreign language phrase]" in google search box - and hope that you'll understand what the translation means lol 

The last question from our French lady was "is that this rogue in his hand car?" which didn't make sense, so might try a real translator...


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Posted 2015-09-08, 05:04 PM in "that other thread":



Moneytoo said:


> Sigh... I'm not even political, but why don't we start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria. And instead of feeling sorry for refugees - stop trying to instill the democracy in the countries that are not ready for this? Deal with the cause of most modern wars, not with the after-math.


Only a week ago - feels like ages ago...


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Completely agree moneytoo except that I don't think that democracy is the goal in mind. Gibor I also saw the Assad /Putin story. You could have negotiations with Russia and Syria through the UN to also make sure that Assad treats his citizens properly after the war is over.

However I don't believe the US wants Syria without a puppet government that they can control because if just democracy was a goal they wouldn't have removed the elected leader of Ukraine. 

Of course the media isn't out to trumpet any of this and if they are it is a side mention barely worth noting. So the people of the world are forced to accept refugees when it really isn't necessary if our leaders would do the right job.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> You could have negotiations with Russia and Syria through the UN to also make sure that Assad treats his citizens properly after the war is over.


It's diffucult to expect from Assad to treat properly ISIS terrorists 



> I don't believe the US wants Syria without a puppet government that they can control


 US may want that aliens will come and rule Syria  , there are only 2 choices: or Assad or ISIS (or other terrorists' group)



> Russia's involvement in Syria "could lead to greater violence and are not helpful at all" to international efforts help end the civil war there, according to the White House.


http://www.ibtimes.com/syrian-civil...syria-giving-nato-cause-concern-while-2092371

Like US involvement is extremely helpful :biggrin:


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

It would be best if Russia and Assad stand aside so that we can get a gas pipeline through Syria to Europe and hurt Gasprom. Sure Syria will turn into a nightmare like everywhere else that has been destabilized but at least the west can have better control over everyone in the region.

This is the American dream but not really a reality that countries like Russia want to live under so they feel the need to build up their own military in the region. This is another consequence of western actions in the middle east is to feed the need of countries like Russia and China to build up their military.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> we can get a gas pipeline through Syria to Europe


 To build gas pipeline via Syria, it's like to give grenade to monkey :biggrin:


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

dogcom said:


> Completely agree moneytoo except that I don't think that democracy is the goal in mind.


Yeah maybe I should've put it in quotation marks... 

View attachment 5881


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

dogcom said:


> Jargey3000 you forgot the most important person in the media of them all Kim Kardashian. I heard a news anchor or something walked off the set because he was so sick of talking about unimportant stories about Km Kardashian.


Saw the footage. Was kinda funny. Not sure if he's still employed - looked like a smaller station.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

dogcom said:


> It would be best if Russia and Assad stand aside so that we can get a gas pipeline through Syria to Europe and hurt Gasprom. Sure Syria will turn into a nightmare like everywhere else that has been destabilized but at least the west can have better control over everyone in the region.
> 
> This is the American dream but not really a reality that countries like Russia want to live under so they feel the need to build up their own military in the region. This is another consequence of western actions in the middle east is to feed the need of countries like Russia and China to build up their military.


Who the heck (select favorited foul words) gave the west authority for control oven rthe region? Why should the US control the world. 

We were safer and every other country was when Russia was a super power. Apology to those families who may have lived in persecution in the soviet block. The Russians were a great balance to the evil empire as there were possible consequences to the wests nefarious actions.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I like the idea of walking off but then again you know you are employed to talk about this crap, so you kind of have to take it like you would on any job. It sells so it is saying something about what viewers want unfortunately.

It reminds me of a time years ago I was home sick and had to watch day time TV. I got so tired of seeing people with problems that I never ever wanted to hear a piece of gossip again. I don't know how people can watch that stuff on a daily basis.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

GPM said:


> Who the heck (select favorited foul words) gave the west authority for control oven rthe region? Why should the US control the world.
> 
> .


Many American tell that God gave tham authority :stupid:



> Apology to those families who may have lived in persecution in the soviet block.


McCarthyism wasn't fun too (we called it "witch hunting")


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

humble_pie said:


> GPM perhaps i could come & be your chauffeur?
> 
> you could test speak sentences to me while i'm at the wheel & i'd say things like paragraph or full stop.


Vous semblez très bien informé et n'a pas peur d'exprimer votre opinion sur des sujets extrêmement délicats. Très Bold. Je respecte grandement. Je ris quand vous avez corrigé mon anglais! .
Vous devriez révoquer mon lycée Award Anglais heh heh. Ma paresse est visible à travers. Je l'aurais essayé français à la place peut-être.

I hope this isn't Jiberish. I tried google translate. My French is embarrassingly poor. I maybe should have sent it to my sister who is bilingual. 

It would be be fun to be chauffeured by "a rogue in a handcar" as Moneytoo translated for me. 

Anyhow, I respect how you aren't afraid to school people fearlessly on very controversial subjects! Same with Moneytoo and Gibor.

Passez une bonne soirée!
GPM


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

GPM the US dollar backed by nothing except a promise to print and pay is partly behind it along with the enormous debt in the US. The US will need to print enormous quantities to pay the deficit if they raise rates and may need to anyways when we get to the next recession.

In order to keep up the quality of life and pay with the printed money they need to wage war or disrupt any country who is threatening to not use the dollar for trade. Russia and China are now front and center in this war where other smaller countries were the problem before.

Then there is the problem of losing a lot of their influence in the world as countries don't have to use the dollar anymore.

Lastly there is the need to distract and blame someone else when the economy does crash or fail like blaming the Chinese stock market for the US stock market troubles in August.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

GPM said:


> I hope this isn't Jiberish. I tried google translate. My French is very poor. I maybe should have sent it to my sister who is bilingual.
> 
> It would be be fun to be chauffeured by "a rogue in a handcar" as Moneytoo translated for me.
> 
> ...


Yay I understand your French! lol I hope Très Gras means "very bold", not "very fat" (as translated by Google ) And I figure that "hand car" is second-hand or used car. Few more posts and I can go to Paris! :biggrin:

Don't think HP will appreciate to be in the same (albeit short) paragraph as gibor and me - but thank you, and I loved your très gras posts in the princess generation thread!


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

I changed the word to English - bold. It did say fat on on reverse translate. Yikes! Some people may take that the wrong way. Never thought of second hand. Ahh, handcar is more fun!


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

dogcom said:


> GPM the US dollar backed by nothing except a promise to print and pay is partly behind it along with the enormous debt in the US. The US will need to print enormous quantities to pay the deficit if they raise rates and may need to anyways when we get to the next recession.
> 
> In order to keep up the quality of life and pay with the printed money they need to wage war or disrupt any country who is threatening to not use the dollar for trade. Russia and China are now front and center in this war where other smaller countries were the problem before.
> 
> ...


My understanding exactly. Don't quote me, but I got the impression somewhere that both Iraq and Egypt were circumventing the U.S. dollar to trade directly in Euros. Also, I'm sure I read that the US told Australia they can't join the new world bank being formed. May be junk news, but interesting nonetheless. Never hurts to read some conspiracy theories for fun, if that's what my above comments are.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

deja para aprender español ahora :biggrin:


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

Very Funny! I can barely speak English. Saskatchewan heritage I'm guessing, as I actually won my high school English award! I don't know if I can do the Spanish - my post to humble_pie took about 20 min. Then I thought I should run it backwards. Lucky I did


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

What language do they speak in Saskatchewan?


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

Well, English, but it's very small town, with generally poor grammar. Like Texans have their "English". I still have to watch myself in public, especially around VIP's, to speak with proper grammar! Luckily, I had excellent writing skills in my youth so I rely on that. However, these "skills" are not evident in my posts!


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

I love cheezburger cats... 

View attachment 5889


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

. Exactly. We use "heh?" commonly at the end of statements, not the stereotypical "eh", "and what not" pegs you as prairie folk, as well as "and stuff" to finish sentences. Oh yeh we pronounce Saskatchewan "Saskatchwan" instead of "Sass catch ee waan" like the rest of Canada. A dead give away. Just a few example, heh? Greatest people ever though. Very helpful to everyone, and safe. I think it's the farming background and life threading winters.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

GPM said:


> My understanding exactly. Don't quote me, but I got the impression somewhere that both Iraq and Egypt were circumventing the U.S. dollar to trade directly in Euros. Also, I'm sure I read that the US told Australia they can't join the new world bank being formed. May be junk news, but interesting nonetheless. Never hurts to read some conspiracy theories for fun, if that's what my above comments are.


I have heard of Iraq selling oil for Euro's but not Egypt but it is possible.

Gold and silver however make no sense as to why there is such a great need for the US central bank to get its hands on it. They took both the Ukraine and the Libya gold for so called safe keeping and yet they can't deliver the gold Germany has asked for. Also I don't know why the mainstream media won't report the extremely unusual trading in both metals and how the price drops when demand is high. I am not saying go buy either metal it is just that why doesn't the media report on such an obvious abuse. 

This is not conspiracy theory but fact about the abuse as I posted I think it was in June when the smash would occur and was easily right. No one should be able to make the call I did with such confidence and yet I did. This is one of the good things about manipulation is you can predict it if you see the pattern. Again I don't care if we think gold is worthless but the media should not ignore the extreme abuse of it. By the way Gaddafi did the ultimate sin and wanted to trade gold for oil in a conference in Africa and that is why he got the sword up the you know what.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_gold_dinar

Skip down to Libya and see the gold backed dinar sin. 

It is hard to find this stuff since the mainstream media doesn't want to report it.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

It was Libya I was thinking of not Egypt!. So I wasn't dreaming. Thought it was euros though. Interesting. I've read Fort Knox is empty (conspiracy? - I don't know where I read it) which is why there is no delivery to Germany. I understand Germany is unhappy about this, but may be related to war reparations still. I thought gold prices are set by the Bank of England daily, somewhat arbitrarily. Way out of my area though, so I expect to learn from this statement.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

dogcom said:


> Skip down to Libya and see the gold backed dinar sin.


The Islamic State (ISIS/L) has already proclaimed that they want to go back to gold money.
*Their currency will be gold coins*.
This takes them truly back to days of the Caliphate.

Gold bugs have always advocated for gold backed currency, esp. in the aftermath of the 2008 crisis.
Well, that wish is coming true, albeit not the way they wanted.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

We know gold and silver and anything in short supply is very bad for fiat money if is used as money. The fiat money is based on the confidence that others will accept it for their labor and goods and debasing it massively because of huge debt removes that confidence. So one must manipulate the price of the items in short supply that threatens the scam and flex muscle to keep the fiat money worth what people think it is. This is not conspiracy but something that must be done to keep the confidence. You can see it in real estate, art prices and even stocks what happens but they are not considered an alternative to money.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

On another note can CMF members come up with the worst waste of time on TV or the media.

My candidate has to be Honey BOO BOO. I was watching Anderson Cooper one day and he mentions this program and I was shocked at the degree useless TV that program was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Comes_Honey_Boo_Boo


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't have any use for Anderson Cooper either.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I don't either, someone else was watching it and I watched for a little while. He actually said he likes Honey Boo Boo so that tells me you are right about him. 

Another good one or bad one is Nancy Grace my daughter used to watch her. She could go on for weeks about a young attractive white woman gone wrong or murdered but didn't have the time for any person of color.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

"On another note can CMF members come up with the worst waste of time on TV"
any of those reality, or dancing or talent or survivor type shows! good lord!
and another thing .... why do we need suspenseful background theme music, and movie-like titles ...for news stories?
dumb & dumber.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> The sinister barracks, in a depressed part of Germany that's a far cry from the vibrancy of Berlin, gave the Habashiehs their first inkling that the land of dreams may not be all that they had hoped for.


Very good! Don't like it , go back to Syria! 



> When she found out her family had to leave Berlin for eastern Germany, Khawla Kareem was so worried that she considered tearing apart their papers and filing a new asylum application, in hopes of getting relocated to a better place.


 Did they expect AI resort?! They should be relocated to Magadan area!

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-refugee-family-meets-rude-welcome-german-home-145719190.html
This article is another proof that those so-called "refugees" are economic immigrants! Eastern Germany is still not too good for them, they want Bavaria?!

SYRIANS, GO HOME!!!!

All Syrians "refugees" who comes to ON should be sent to Pickle Lake area!



> Overall, Germany expects as many as a million refugees by the end of this year, with hundreds of thousands coming from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.


 Goodbye Germany! It used to be an excellent country!




> Chemnitz — known as Karl-Marx-Stadt during Communist times — has only three mosques and fewer than 500 Syrians among the city's 14,000 foreign inhabitants.


 Wow! What a disaster :biggrin: Just 3 mosques! 
But no worries, in couple of years there will be 30 mosques and 5000 Syrians!
Poor Germany! Stupid Merkel!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Bravo Putin!


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I agree people should follow the laws of the country they wish to move to.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

So we should be living in teepees and have sentencing circles?


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Yeah, and smoking the peace pipes! :biggrin:


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Muslim Mayor of Rotterdam tells Islamists to “F*** Off” and “pack your bags and leave” on live television.


> Mayor Aboutaleb said: “It is incomprehensible that you can turn against freedom… But if you don’t like freedom, for heaven’s sake pack your bags and leave.”
> 
> “There may be a place in the world where you can be yourself, be honest with yourself and do not go and kill innocent journalists. And if you do not like it here because humorists you do not like make a newspaper, may I then say you can f*** off.”



http://conservativepost.com/muslim-...-pack-your-bags-and-leave-on-live-television/


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

After the Republican debates, there was a lot of criticism of the candidates not talking about substantive issues.

Small wonder, given the questions they were asked by CNN moderator Jake Tapper.

It could have been the Jerry Springer show, for all the dumb questions, as when he asked Carly Fiorina to respond to Trump's comments about her face........etc.

In order to talk about real issues, the candidates need to be asked real questions, with follow up questions if they don't give an answer.

The US media dumbs down the questions hoping for a "gotcha" moments captured on video, and then complains the debates lack substance.

In the Canadian debate, the moderator let everyone know how he personally felt about issues........subtly, but it was there.

Personally, I don't give a hoot what he thinks........but I guess some people would.

I think one problem is there is too much media now, and it allows a specific reporter who is persistent in their questions to get banned.

On CNBC Steve Leishman covers the Fed, and since he is a great admirer of the Fed and supporter of everything they do........he gets to ask the first question at a press conference.

When an anchor points out "our own Steve Leishman was there and asked the first question" he looks like he is about to break out in a happy dance.

I would find it more insightful..........to have Rick Santelli go the press conference and ask some pertinent questions and then to question the answers.

But I doubt he would be invited back.

The truth is that media have to suck up to get the story, because if they don't someone else will get it.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

dogcom said:


> Whether it is the main stream media or the alternative media I feel most people get hypnotized by the message and go with it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

This sounds about right Pluto and a well put explanation. 

I think the mainstream media plays a huge role in helping the Fed and central banks get their message out. You never hear much negative reporting in regards to QE, zero interest rates, false employment numbers, fraud by the banks and so on.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

this stuff about the "mainstream media" and "media manipulation" is baloney

i have been reading and the viewing the "media" for about 50+ years and have never seen a time when it was more diverse and when more different views could be heard ... social media is transforming politics, elections and society in general

the so-called "mainstream media" doesn't even exist, it's an old trope that no one has taken the time to examine

the news was so much more tightly controlled 10-20-30 years ago than today by a very small number of newspaper syndicates and broadcast networks

alternative points of view didn't even exist except in newsletters and pamphlets and small circulation newspapers

the so called mainstream media, newspapers, broadcast tv, tv networks is struggling to survive ... jeff bezos bought the washington post as mercy mission .. rupert murdoch just bought national geographic because it is a fading publication ... i could go on all day

it doesn't matter who asks what at these debates, the story that plays is the one the next day on social media and a 10,000 websites

what are you guys smoking with this "media-manipulation" stuff ? ... you are living in the 60's


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I have some alternative media gems here for you fatcat and you don't have to wait very long to find out if they are right or not. I would think lonewolf would be all over this so we will see. Tomorrow the Marshal guy is 99 percent sure something will happen according to the first article and the other article we have to wait for the mega blood moon near month end.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/marshall-swing-last-2-days-to-acquire-physical/

http://www.silverdoctors.com/the-se...f-fire-and-the-coming-great-japan-earthquake/

So far the Shemitah thing seems to be a bust but we have more to come apparently.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Forum buddies faked out by the media on the refuge crisis should hear what Nigel Farage has to say on the crisis. I like him and he speaks his mind on matters and warns of the destruction this will cause Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udk1ENv1nWg


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

forum buddies will see that the real fake is this piece of rubbish featuring UK Independent Party leader Nigel Farage on yet another neo crypto racist rant. He's been at it since 1993, they say. Britannica for the auld ****** anglo saxon stock. Eff the european union. No more immigrants. 

idk, didn't goebbels & dr mengele talk like that?

as for the footage of refugees spliced in, showing refugees scrimmaging & throwing stones, gibor has already shown us the exact same footage. Evidently there's very little film like this, so every racist bigot has to use the same footage over & over & over again. Yawn.

my favourite part is Farage's description of the mostly-pacific & exhausted refugees that we're seeing in thousands of videos as "radical extremists committing The Most Bestial Acts on a daily basis."

what i do agree is that the 2015 refugee exodus is the world's biggest news story since 9/11. By far the most important story of the century so far. It's only just beginning. No one has the slightest idea how it will turn out. It seems clear that, in the end, it will affect every single human being, no matter where they live.

me i think the media are mostly doing a brilliant job.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Putin Makes Huge Move Against ISIS… Makes Obama Look Like Whimpering Child.
http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/2...-isis-makes-obama-look-like-whimpering-child/


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

dogcom said:


> Whether it is the main stream media or the alternative media I feel most people get hypnotized by the message and go with it.
> ....
> 
> Today the media must sell us on the Syrian refugees by showing us the images and of course the majority buy into it in this country and here. The media won't show us the negative images or did you know that boy drowned on the beach was actually the son of the boat driver who was smuggling the refugees in from Syria. I am not saying for sure but that is what I have heard from other sources....


9 million Syrian refugees since march 2011 is legitimate news, not a creation of media outlets. http://syrianrefugees.eu/

Tens of thousands of refugees (Syrian & African) storming the borders of European countries is legitimate news, not a media myth.

A desperate shortfall in funding for the 4M refugees in UN refugee camps is legitimate news, not a media myth. http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php And it also helps explain why so many are making risky attempts to enter Europe, because the UN has not received enough money from all of us wealthy countries to even provide adequate food and shelter in the camps.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

gibor said:


> Putin Makes Huge Move Against ISIS… Makes Obama Look Like Whimpering Child.
> http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/2...-isis-makes-obama-look-like-whimpering-child/



more fairy tale from this flotsam website.

everybody knows russia has begun building its own air base inside syria. It's not any kind of huge move against ISIL.

as a piece of imitation journalism, this story goes beyond propaganda. It reads & looks like something dreamed up for kindergarten kids. The words "whimpering," "child" & "obama" have nothing to do with russia's pre-emptive move into syria.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i do love seeing old nigel make all those eu mp's (with their fat expense accounts) squirm

he has a point and really isn't a nazi, just a guy who questions the wisdom of mass immigration of people without documents from places that harbor millions of people who want to destroy the west

good on him for having the courage to stand up and say *what huge, massive numbers of europeans are thinking but are afraid to say*

more and more i think it is the europeans who are going to have to face isis because despite what some on this forum would like us to believe, isis will have to be faced in battle on land and air

they are a perpetual refugee making machine and no sane person wants to live under their rule (and i use the word "rule" loosely)

europe will face the brunt of refugees (and we might have our own tidal wave of muslims if the ndp get their way) and they need to recognize that they have a big problem on their hands

i hope the usa sits this one out


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I get the feeling the fix is in...lots of shady people moving into the free world. I don't support pedophilia sodomy or the stoning of women, nor think our society should revise itself to accommodate people who come from this background. Lots of needy refugees before Syrians that didn't try to game the system. How about we bring in 25k Rwandan's ... I doubt they would insist on wearing a mask during citizenship swearing in ceremonies.

(I'm not bigoted but try to form my opinions on available information regardless of mass hysteria)


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

cat the video was obviously cobbled together by someone or some people who juxtaposed footage of the honourable member from belfast speechifying on The Horror, together with that limited, much-used & well-known footage of refugees swarming here & there in europe. It's cobbled together with honourable belfast's approval & possibly his financial subvention, but it remains a pretty crude piece of video propaganda.

i'm also wondering why it's always the old, old, old men who long so ardently to see "battle on land and air." 

if not old old old in years, they're already sclerosed in their minds. Certainly they look to be prematurely bloodthirsty in their minds. Please don't become one of them, cat.

one doesn't see the young & the flexible going straight for battle. They're much more likely to look for other ways to squeeze the enemy first. ISIL for example has networks of friends & supporters but not enough intelligent effort is being made by the west to pry into those networks to find their weak points imho.

where, for example, are the efforts to halt or blow up the arms flow into ISIL hands? they're not making their own weapons, that's for sure. We know that a lot of materiel was confiscated from iraqui soldiers who'd been outfitted by the US but they ran away, abandoning their equipment for ISIL to seize.

however there have to be principal arms outfitters, ISIL isn't just operating on spoils it can scavenge. What are the main weapons conduits into ISIL hands, how can these be blown up, who are the principal arms dealers?

it's certainly possible that these campaigns are being efficiently waged by the west but military security isn't telling. That would be fine by me.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

pie, yes, i'm sure the video was a piece of cobbled together footage, the likes of which you see on thousands of extreme and biased "news" websites that all have an axe to grind

but farage though he is a right winger and xenophobe does actually have a point which is to legitimately question the rightness of immigration especially at this current pace and with a complete lack of secure controls

i have followed him for awhile with delight since he just makes his fellow mp's squirm when he challenges the liberal / pro-union line ... on this he is right, the europeans have been caught with their pants down and their legendary wobbling and wiggling has now thrust this problem on their doorstep

as far as war goes, you can accuse the old men of longing for battle but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes battle is necessary ... weapons litter the middle east and even if they are theoretically de-weaponized (it will never happen, not in the middle east) they will still have to be rounded up on the ground

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...nt-airstrikes-on-islamic-state-to-start-soon-



> *“The key ingredient to degrading Daesh is establishing a large, well-trained, well-armed, resilient and preferably cohesive fighting force,” Skinner said. “This still appears to be a pipe-dream.”*


what isn't a dream is the refugee making machine called isis or daesh or whatever

the europeans (and canadians) are going to one day realize that this responsibility falls on them, to fight, since this is all isis understands or even wants to understand


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

The refugee footage just came with the Nigel speech which I don't think was required. Farage likes to take the EU to task and is one of the very few brave enough to do it and that is why I like him. I think his message for Europe is the right one like it or not because it could mean the end of Europe as we know it.

Eder's message seems to be a good one that I agree with without all the hype and hysteria. One has to wonder why all of a sudden we have ISIS or ISIL going back a few years and now all of a sudden we have a enormous refugee crisis. I think a good part of the refugee crisis is being to open with the message that you will take all comers. This message is what is sending such an enormous extra amount of refugees to Europe.

Look at other countries like Japan and such you don't see them bring in anyone refugees or not. I am not saying we should go that far because we should be helpful and charitable but at the same time I don't want my country to go downhill because we feel bad. We have to remember we have kids and family growing up here who may be at risk if we go to far.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

fatcat said:


> this stuff about the "mainstream media" and "media manipulation" is baloney
> 
> i have been reading and the viewing the "media" for about 50+ years and have never seen a time when it was more diverse and when more different views could be heard ... social media is transforming politics, elections and society in general
> 
> what are you guys smoking with this "media-manipulation" stuff ? ... you are living in the 60's


Well you have a point. The power is revitalized. Now the little guy can be a reporter too. 

But it doesn't mean there is no manipulation. Suppose some big time money management firm is talking don't worry be happy - buy more anytime - to main street via the institutional media, while quietly unloading their own shares to raise cash before the fall. Its obvious manipulation can still happen. Social media doesn't stop the pump and dump stuff and it might actually help it. 


Depends too on where you live. Some guy in China got 10 years for divulging information embarrassing to the government. with those kind of penalties the control and manipulation is still there.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

dogcom it wasn't "all of a sudden" ISIL in 2014.

there are plenty well-written pieces in the internet from media such as the ny times that document the unbroken continuation of ISIL from the ba'ath party of saddam hussein.

in fact in the short term the poison spreads straight back to 2003 with the US invasion of iraq. When jean chretien said No, no, we won't go for canada.

in the long term the poison spreads far back to the sykes-picot agreement of 1916 that divided up the ottoman turkish empire among england, france & the US. They all promptly appointed local warlords & strongmen - mostly army generals - as rulers. Thus we have the various royal families of the middle east today, they are about the 3rd generation down from their warlord ancestors.

none of this helped the local people & eventually overthrow movements with new warlords developed. To add insult to injury, throughout the past century & into the present, the western-controlled oil industry carried off the spoils of oil wealth that are situated in the region.

please forgive this fractured attempt at history. It does have a germ of truth. When one adds in the centuries of syrian, anatolian & arab oppression under the ottoman turks, one can see how ISIL springs from a people who feel profoundly injured & hard done by. Who are determined to reclaim the proud place they once held, a thousand long years ago. Who are using a kind of pseudo religion to do this.

i'm not writing this out of sympathy. I'm writing because i believe it's a total waste of time to rant on with hatred against one's enemy. It's more efficient to understand where that enemy is coming from. In the end, we're all going to have to live together on the planet.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I know ISIL or ISIS is a byproduct of US policy and are used to fight Assad and so on. The degree of their power in the region all at once had me thinking about it. This is all very fishy to me and it should be to the forum buddies as well. We are all being played on the refuge thing just like Hitler used refugees to block roads at the start of WW11. 

At some point Nazis or Hitler must come into the discussion. I said it first so we can put that to rest.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Humble we all do have to live together on one planet but does destroying your country help your family. I know so far this is the Europeans destroying their countries but why should we?

My friend is a Jehovah witness and they don't vote because Jesus didn't vote. So I said if there was 10 Jehovah witnesses and 5 Nazis during an election what would happen?

The Jehovah witnesses wouldn't vote so the Nazis would win by 5 votes. The Nazis would then kill the Jehovah witnesses and they would be in power absolutely.

The point is we can easily prevent these big problems.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

gibor said:


> Putin Makes Huge Move Against ISIS… Makes Obama Look Like Whimpering Child.
> http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/2...-isis-makes-obama-look-like-whimpering-child/


Why doesn't Washington team up with Russia and so on to get rid of ISIS? Maybe the link and the message source is bothersome, but still why not unite the world to get rid of this crap?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

dogcom said:


> Why doesn't Washington team up with Russia and so on to get rid of ISIS? Maybe the link and the message source is bothersome, but still why not unite the world to get rid of this crap?


Or why doesn't Washington make more formal relations with Iran so that they can work more efficiently with the Iranian Shiite militia groups? Easy, politics. 

How do you think it looks when Washington has been condemning Russia over Ukraine, and then trying to work militarily over ISIS? Likewise, their end goals are different. USA's end goal in Syria is to remove Assad, while Russia is more inclined to keep him. Barring that, at least have someone more receptive to the Russians which means getting rid of those USA backed rebel groups.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Another good question is how does it look to the normal Joe if he knew that the US was behind the Ukraine overthrow and supported ISIS to overthrow Assad, primarily to get a pipeline to Europe from Qatar.

If the media was pumping these scandals to the American people they would be very upset I would think. The world is safer and better off if the US stops its empire goals and works with countries big and small to make a safer world.

On another note why is the Pope addressing congress speaking at the UN and talking policy or whatever with Obama. I am catholic, but this doesn't seem right to me that religion is mixing with politics. Sure we should be concerned about our planet and so on but this all seems a bit much to me.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bgc_fan said:


> ow do you think it looks when Washington has been condemning Russia over Ukraine, and then trying to work militarily over ISIS? Likewise, their end goals are different. USA's end goal in Syria is to remove Assad, while Russia is more inclined to keep him. Barring that, at least have someone more receptive to the Russians which means getting rid of those USA backed rebel groups.



i don't see any evidence yet that the US is trying to "work militarily over ISIS" with russia.

what i see is russia building Putin AFB Damascus. Russia is building an air force base for itself because it knows that eventually there will be a new islamic state in the region & it wants to be well established when that happens.

evidently there's russian action already, russian fighters were bombing ISIL near Aleppo this am.

the US hasn't been lucky, allying itself with various remnant rebel groups in syria but the sorties never amount to anything.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> i don't see any evidence yet that the US is trying to "work militarily over ISIS" with russia.
> 
> what i see is russia building Putin AFB Damascus. Russia is building an air force base for itself because it knows that eventually there will be a new islamic state in the region & it wants to be well established when that happens.
> 
> ...


I never said that they were. I was pointing out the fact that they wouldn't work together for various reasons.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Pluto said:


> Well you have a point. The power is revitalized. Now the little guy can be a reporter too.
> 
> But it doesn't mean there is no manipulation. Suppose some big time money management firm is talking don't worry be happy - buy more anytime - to main street via the institutional media, while quietly unloading their own shares to raise cash before the fall. Its obvious manipulation can still happen. Social media doesn't stop the pump and dump stuff and it might actually help it.
> 
> ...


i certainly agree that media manipulation is a reality both for the purposes of profit and propaganda but it occurs here and there and not in any organized way

there is no coordinated effort, there is no conspiracy to sell a particular point of view, the media landscape is simply too large and with the advent of the web and social media, too fractured and too diverse

when one interest group manipulates the media, another will answer back with its own manipulation of the manipulation


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

fatcat said:


> i certainly agree that media manipulation is a reality both for the purposes of profit and propaganda but it occurs here and there and not in any organized way
> 
> there is no coordinated effort, there is no conspiracy to sell a particular point of view, the media landscape is simply too large and with the advent of the web and social media, too fractured and too diverse


Very true, I think.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I think what happens is the Fed, government and such since they are the main story tellers can paint the picture for the media to tell. This is how their truths or untruths get put forward as the overriding story that is most likely to be believed by the masses. Look how George Bush sold the Afghanistan and Iraq wars as a us against them, us against evil, us against terrorists, your with us or against us and so on. The message completely defeated all opponents to the masses and the wars were a done deal.

Look at very important deals like the TPP which no one is allowed to see it and still the media doesn't say much about a deal so important to everyone. I heard they also hide stuff in there like internet surveillance and what not.

https://theintercept.com/2015/05/12/cant-read-tpp-heres-huge-corporations-can/

Something like this should not be hidden or kept secret at all. It should be a criminal act to keep it away from the public.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think Bush went to war because Bin Laden blew up the world trade centre...I think most people think the same. I. for one, was happy he had the stones to go kick some *** and still I apologize to Americans when the subject comes up that our troops were held at bay by Cretin & assoc. A large black eye for us & may have much to do with present pipeline delays & rumors of border walls. I guess I'm still hypnotized.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

Two scenarios:
1. The evil empire finally got what they deserved for farting around in other countries for a hundred plus years, building up 
their "assets" and making sure developing nations stay poor. Oh yeh, Bin Ladin couldn't stand American troops on 
his soil.
2. False flag operation. Was way too easy.


3. Send Canadian troops? The Americans can deal with their own problems. Sign up with them if you want to help them 
out.
4. Chrétien was right. For us or against us? F$$k off was the only correct answer.

No sympathy on this end.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Eder said:


> I think Bush went to war because Bin Laden blew up the world trade centre...I think most people think the same. I. for one, was happy he had the stones to go kick some *** and still I apologize to Americans when the subject comes up that our troops were held at bay by Cretin & assoc. A large black eye for us & may have much to do with present pipeline delays & rumors of border walls. I guess I'm still hypnotized.




?? have you perhaps got your middle east wars mixed up?

canada supported the US of A all the way in afghanistan (the afghan invasion followed immediately after 9/11). Afghan was a NATO commitment & one that was promptly made. Within days, if i recall correctly. Canada never held back.

jean chretien's refusal was a different war & a different story. Chretien refused to send canadian troops to invade iraq in 2003 when US president dubya bush began gabbling about saddam hussein & weapons of mass destruction, in part because the bush family through Crest energy & other companies were & still are oil tycoons with interests in iraq & kurdistan.

this was super smart of Chretien since it would turn out that there were no WMDs, everyday life in iraq was profoundly damaged & ISIL took shape from saddam hussein's ba'ath party, only to grow stronger after the iraqi ruler was executed. 

look at the mess today. It's americans who should be apologizing for the US 2003 invasion of iraq. It's canadians who should be proud of jean chretien.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

False flag or not to me when those buildings fell on live TV and I am not getting this from any later source, it looked exactly like a controlled demolition to me. I am sure many here thought the same way, so I am not so sure about what happened on that day.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

dogcom said:


> Look at very important deals like the TPP which no one is allowed to see it and still the media doesn't say much about a deal so important to everyone. I heard they also hide stuff in there like internet surveillance and what not.
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2015/05/12/cant-read-tpp-heres-huge-corporations-can/
> 
> Something like this should not be hidden or kept secret at all. It should be a criminal act to keep it away from the public.




such fervent language! i'd never heard of TPP so i had to look this link up. It's a US initiative called the trans pacific partnership that does not involve canada in the least.

why should canadian media write about this obscure US trade initiative? why describe it - falsely, imho - as "a deal so important to everyone?"

why attack it as "criminal?"

why would canadian media cover this story, when there are a thousand stories with far greater significance for this country, all competing for attention?

lastly, there's no evidence anything has been hushed up. There's nothing except rumour, innuendo, an unsupported charge of criminal action. In short, a perfect example of bad journalism.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

To be VERY clear, I'm not saying this is a credible source, but former Governor Jesse Ventura was a navy seal demolitions expert and has come forward and said it was a controlled demolition. Also asks why you can't ask questions or get answers about 9/11 as well. Now, he's gone a little crazy since being a governor, but I thought it looked engineered. I also believe governments would do this sort of thing to further their interests. No guilt at all.

Note: I am not a conspiracy theorist, although some are an interesting read. However, it's the way the buildings fell straight down. Both. 114 floors. That's high if you've stood beside them. I have.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...mmerciaux/agr-acc/tpp-ptp/index.aspx?lang=eng

Here is a good link Humble and I am surprised no one has heard of it. Lack of media here for sure and it does concern Canada as you can see.

The criminal thing is concerning the US keeping it from congress and the people except for the name and broad terms.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

thankx dogcom. 

the gummint canada dot ca page you linked to appears to confirm that canada is *not* a TPP member although it would like to be. Page has a link to "Benefits Across Canada" but this link goes to "Page Not Found," at least in the browser i'm using.

so apart from platitudes praising exports for hardworking canadians, TPP as of now doesn't seem to have any role in canadian life.

why therefore would journos pay any attention to it? it's only an item on a gummint wish list. At the present moment, there must be 101,000 more urgent items on canadian gummint wish lists.

i'm sticking to my knitting: words like "criminal" are far too inflammatory for this non-issue.

the only angle i can see is that, deep in the heart of washington, there's probably a good story about why canada was not invited to the TPP party. That's the story to be dug out imho.


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## GPM (Jan 23, 2015)

Agreed. I read about this a while back, but didn't recognize the "TPP". I too am curious as to why we are excluded.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Here are some links of protests that have taken place in Canada and abroad.

http://canadians.org/tpp

http://www.canadianprogressiveworld...on-in-the-tpp/tpp-protest-in-otawa-june-2014/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/protesters-gather-against-tpp-talks-in-hawaii-1.2494580

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/14/TPP-Human-Rights/


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> thankx dogcom.
> 
> the gummint canada dot ca page you linked to appears to confirm that canada is *not* a TPP member although it would like to be. Page has a link to "Benefits Across Canada" but this link goes to "Page Not Found," at least in the browser i'm using.
> 
> ...


from the beginning canada has been intimately, deeply involved in TPP which will affect many areas of our lives ... the current holdup involves dairy quotas which are a real sticking point

there is a talk about copyright and isp's tracking downloaders and so on, the entertainment industry has a large wish list that they want to inflict on canada


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I was listening to interviews and speeches or parts of last week of Putin and Obama along with other western leaders and Putin clearly came out ahead.

I am no Putin backer but his speech certainly sounded better and made more sense to me. On Syria all the western leaders would say is we have to get rid of Assad first. I wondered why now after so many years? It is because he is brutal to the people. Ok but why not get rid of the brutal Saudi regime then if this is the concern? That sounds like hypocrisy to me. 

Then they go on to criticize Putin on his strategy and so on. To me however the west strategy on dealing with the aftermath in Egypt, Libya and Iraq is nothing to write home about. I found even on the mainstream media where I watched everything Obama and other leaders didn't come out looking very good and certainly didn't convince me on their motives in the region.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I see the CNN propaganda machine is hard at work denouncing Russia in every effort. 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/middleeast/russia-syria-isis/index.html

I am not saying it is all untrue but I am sure CNN would not report the same slant against US actions in the area.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Humble I must give credit to The Globe and Mail for putting the foreign worker and the TPP information on their front page today October 15.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...on-temporary-foreign-workers/article26817494/


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