# So What Do You Think of Your Bitcoins Now?



## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

If I recall, last year at this time you were asked to pay over $20,000 US for a bitcoin and now you only need to overpay with around $3,200 US for that same coin. Surprised they can find someone dumb enough to pay that but this pyramid hopeful, having no actual concrete value, could technically garner any price and it would be hard to argue for or against it. 

I have always found paying anything above 0 a little expensive for things that have no inherent value but that is just me. It appears it is not something others worry about.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Still think its not anything that any intelligent person would invest in.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Feel the same as I have always felt. Absolute garbage.


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## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

I always wonder if people get smarter over time or not. At least tulips looked and smelled nice.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Its primary value seems to have been for tax evaders, terrorist funding, organized crime, and ultra fanatical privacy freaks.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Just like the stock table the bit coin table is going have corruption, have winners & losers with the money leaving most players that will flow to the strong hands.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Bitcoins fall into the theory of free passive income and wealth...........:cocksure:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The bitcoin price is currently sitting just above $3000 USD. It has dropped rapidly from $20,000 and stuck around the $3000 mark for awhile.

The next leg down will be a big one. It looks like all the way down to $700 and after that to $0.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Pluto said:


> Its primary value seems to have been for tax evaders, terrorist funding, organized crime, and ultra fanatical privacy freaks.


 There is a lot of propaganda by governments & central banks that want to control money to bash something that threatens their control over money. An argument could be made that cash leaves less of a trail then Bitcoin. For now the government has the guns & the tanks so they will probably control the form of money used. I still think gold & silver are the best bets to survive a global currency crisis.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> If I recall, last year at this time you were asked to pay over $20,000 US for a bitcoin and now you only need to overpay with around $3,200 US for that same coin. Surprised they can find someone dumb enough to pay that but this pyramid hopeful, having no actual concrete value, could technically garner any price and it would be hard to argue for or against it.
> 
> *I have always found paying anything above 0 a little expensive for things that have no inherent value but that is just me. It appears it is not something others worry about.*


 ... what about 'derivatives' such as options, warrants, etc? Why do those still exist?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Beaver101 said:


> ... what about 'derivatives' such as options, warrants, etc? Why do those still exist?


They usually have some inherent value.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Last year bitcoiners were dining in fine restaurants. Today they are doing the dishes in the kitchen.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

One of the primary rules of investing is to never invest in something you don't understand. Bitcoin is the perfect example which proves this rule. I've seen several explanations of cryptocurrency and crypto mining, and the whole thing never made any sense to me.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

lonewolf :) said:


> There is a lot of propaganda by governments & central banks that want to control money to bash something that threatens their control over money. An argument could be made that cash leaves less of a trail then Bitcoin. For now the government has the guns & the tanks so they will probably control the form of money used. I still think gold & silver are the best bets to survive a global currency crisis.


Yes, there seems to be situations where cash is less traceable, but but try to get many millions in cash out of one country and into another has its logistical problems. I'm not a bitcoin expert, but it seems that international transfers are easier than cash.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

pwm said:


> One of the primary rules of investing is to never invest in something you don't understand. Bitcoin is the perfect example which proves this rule. I've seen several explanations of cryptocurrency and crypto mining, and the whole thing never made any sense to me.


I only had a vague idea about Bitcoins and Cryptocurrencies in general. Then I was looking at subscribing to a VPN and saw that one payment option was Bitcoin. Led me to wonder - Where or how would I even acquire Bitcoins?

Anyway, didn't pursue it, but then while driving last Sunday, I heard this piece on CBC by MIT Prof. Luckily she had ability to explain things clearly.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundaye...yptocurrency-but-were-afraid-to-ask-1.5121540

I now know a little bit more, but still can't see what the attraction is unless you want to buy something anonymously.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> If I recall, last year at this time you were asked to pay over $20,000 US for a bitcoin and now you only need to overpay with around $3,200 US for that same coin. Surprised they can find someone dumb enough to pay that but this pyramid hopeful, having no actual concrete value, could technically garner any price and it would be hard to argue for or against it.
> 
> I have always found paying anything above 0 a little expensive for things that have no inherent value but that is just me. It appears it is not something others worry about.


That $3200 US Bitcoin on 16 December 2018 when this thread was started is now $6360 and surged briefly over $7500. Peak negativity?


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

agent99 said:


> unless you want to buy something anonymously.


Yup, that's the thing. Anonymity may be required for nefarious reasons or for perfectly legitimate privacy reasons. Paying for a VPN is a good example. If you want to pay for a VPN in order to avoid Saudi or Chinese or American government internet snooping, it hardly does any good to have traceable bank payments or credit card payments to a VPN business.

The other main thing I can think of is to facilitate transactions that may be barred by some government. Donating directly to the Iranian Red Crescent Society might be tricky with all the banks kowtowing to the Americans. But crypto currency might allow the transaction. There would be numerous examples where the transaction would be for a nefarious purpose and barred legitimately too, of course.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

> Quote Originally Posted by OptsyEagle View Post
> 
> If I recall, last year at this time you were asked to pay over $20,000 US for a bitcoin and now you only need to overpay with around $3,200 US for that same coin. Surprised they can find someone dumb enough to pay that but this pyramid hopeful, having no actual concrete value, could technically garner any price and it would be hard to argue for or against it.
> 
> I have always found paying anything above 0 a little expensive for things that have no inherent value but that is just me. It appears it is not something others worry about.





doctrine said:


> That $3200 US Bitcoin on 16 December 2018 when this thread was started is now $6360 and surged briefly over $7500. Peak negativity?


Great. So what is its inherent value now?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

agent99 said:


> I now know a little bit more, but still can't see what the attraction is unless you want to buy something anonymously.


In theory also for international transaction and currency exchange (or lack thereof) but it's still too volatile


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> Great. So what is its inherent value now?


I don't have any bitcoin, nor intending to buy any, but the value of anything is what people will pay for it. There is plenty of stupid **** out there that people pay big money for. I did some basic analysis of the underlying value of the transactional / currency exchange side of Bitcoin, which admittedly was a very small portion during the greed rage. But I think its a larger proportion now, given a lot of speculators have moved on.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I bought some bitcoin, not because I thought it was a great investment, but with the thought: "in case this stupid **** takes off, I might as well have a bit of skin in the game". I can't exactly sit by and watch this century's tulip mania slip by without getting involved, somehow.

I originally spent $300, and the coins are now worth $190. Not too surprising or exciting either way.

My coins are at Coinbase. They let me buy them, but Coinbase does not provide any way for Canadians to sell and get the cash out. How does one liquidate coins? Totally unclear. But this whole experience has made me appreciate traditional banks more.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

doctrine said:


> I don't have any bitcoin, nor intending to buy any, but the value of anything is what people will pay for it. There is plenty of stupid **** out there that people pay big money for. I did some basic analysis of the underlying value of the transactional / currency exchange side of Bitcoin, which admittedly was a very small portion during the greed rage. But I think its a larger proportion now, given a lot of speculators have moved on.


You will lose a lot of money using that definition.

My point was that very little has changed with respect to bitcoin, but as you have also indicated, the price of it has been going up and down like a yoyo. I am not sure why anyone would run to that as a safe haven or think that it would have any long term prospects. If crypto currencies become the new wave, I expect the new one with a solid backing, will be the one that wins the favour for most peoples money.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

My spouse can speak more to this than me. We have a little bit doing, a few hundred I think. The cost for us was the cost of a little electricity and the bigger cost if having my spouse lose time picking up another hobby. We have a lot of extra computers around the house, so my spouse wanted to try mining it himself. After the first week, I think we had Under a buck, I calculated the electricity cost and it was more since our computers have slow processing speed. So then my spouse found some way to bypass using our own tech to save on electricity cost, but takes time configuring. So after 6 months, we ended up with a couple of hundred and many hours. So, my so Use said not worth it.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> You will lose a lot of money using that definition.
> 
> My point was that very little has changed with respect to bitcoin, but as you have also indicated, the price of it has been going up and down like a yoyo. I am not sure why anyone would run to that as a safe haven or think that it would have any long term prospects. If crypto currencies become the new wave, I expect the new one with a solid backing, will be the one that wins the favour for most peoples money.


Bitcoin is the one that most closely meets that definition. Most of the rest are trash. I believe money volume in Bitcoin is increasing. I also believe transactionals cost are decreasing. Bitcoin has a level of somewhat legitimate uses in terms of private and some business transactions, as well as currency transfers. In general, I can tell you those uses were far outweighed by greedy speculation a few years ago. Now, not so much as before. Meaning the value may have more backing now. Also, as coins are lost over time, it reduces supply, which also increases value. So, my point is there are some underlying factors at work. One can dismiss Bitcoin outright as fraud/nonsense, one could pay attention to the factors and get involved or not, or one could ignore all of this and carry on with life.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

One problem with bitcoins is you aren't transferring money. You are transferring bitcoins (a string of digits)

Wherever bitcoins are received requires a bank or other third party to convert them to the local currency.

Until there is major merchant adoption of bitcoins, I don't see any future for any crypto that isn't initiated by the banks or government and widely distributed and accepted.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Seldom discussed is that most bitcoins transactions (bought and sold) on the exchanges are for "dust".

These are transactions for micro amounts of a single bitcoin. 

This attracts many "investors" who are speculating with very little money and drives up the price. The bitcoin forums have many posts from people around the world in desperate situations who bought bitcoins hoping to get out of the poverty they live in. They invested everything they had.......and it wasn't much.

Consider what Amazon stock might be worth if people could buy small fractions of the stock. If people had to buy 1 bitcoin demand and the price would plummet.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Am I the only one who still thinks this bitcoin crave has been and always will be a load of BS??


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

There was a caller on BNN yesterday. He said the Dow had dropped by 400 points when he called. But while he was on hold waiting for his moment on BNN. Bitcoins had gone up by $400! Berman's view of Bitcoins was that they worth worth ZERO.


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## Borat (Apr 28, 2017)

How do you even purchase or begin to hold bitcoin?


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Borat said:


> How do you even purchase or begin to hold bitcoin?


Read link in post #15.


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## Kabanga (May 15, 2019)

Don't think we'll reach 20k this year. It's almost impossible. I'll close my long soon. Dont believe in further growth.


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