# ontario vs california



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

i might have an opportunity to move to the sunshine state (if i want to). should i take it? other than the obvious reason of good weather, are there any other positives? on the other hand, what will i be giving up on by moving out of ontario?


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Too much traffic down there/big city, cost of living too high. That's a very heavy price to pay for good weather. There's also not enough water down there and the gov't is bankrupt. Doesn't sound like any kind of a bargain to me. Some people commute for several hours.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

how about quality of living, kids' education, jobs, taxes etc?


----------



## brad (May 22, 2009)

California's a big state. Can you narrow it down to where you'd be living? Some parts of the state are rural, some are wilderness, others are tiny villages and small towns, others are big cities. Some places are very affordable, others not at all.


----------



## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

Merced, California--I used to do some work down there. Real estate and the cost of living is dirt cheap. But then you would actually have to live there.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/04/15/on-the-front-lines-of-america’s-meltdown/


----------



## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

If you end up in Ontario, California you get the best of both worlds


----------



## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

Actually, the name "Sunshine State" refers to Florida, as confirmed by their Legislature and more importantly, John Sayles. You don't want to get in the middle of the Florida-California feud!

A couple of years ago I drove behind the Sierras and west through Yosemite; I don't remember any longings to visit Merced on the way out. At least it's probably better than Bakersfield...


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

its going to be in the silicon valley. my bad about sunshine state.
TRM, what makes you think the cost of living is high? it used to be so when the real estate was crazy high, but now its probably more affordable than GTA.


----------



## brad (May 22, 2009)

My brother's been living at the border of East Palo Alto and Menlo Park for the past 12 years or so and loves it. He sold his car 10 years ago and gets around by bike and public transit, he has never needed a car. Public transportation in the valley is good, the BART system in San Francisco is excellent; you can easily avoid dealing with the traffic hassles.

It is crowded, but no worse than the GTA. The ocean's not far and it's a lovely drive to Half Moon Bay.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

i have been there twice and stayed for 3 months each time and i absolutely loved that place. however, relocating and living is a lot different than visiting. harsh realities are hidden when you are a visitor.


----------



## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

rookie said:


> its going to be in the silicon valley.


Merced is rather more San Joaquin Valley, not Silicon... 

Would this be just you, or a wife and kids type of deal? Schools and healthcare would be a couple big considerations. You'd have no issues getting a work visa? You'd want to check out tax implications - you won't be able to contribute to your TFSA while non-resident, I think, and I'm not sure if income generated by an existing TFSA might not be taxable by the IRA if you are filing with them. If there is any pension plan with your new employer check out whatever issues there might be for eventual payment or transfer if you return to Canada. California has strict vehicle emissions rules; make sure any vehicle you might bring won't have any registration issues. 

No Tim Hortons...


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

if i move, its going to be the whole family - wife and 2 kids. couple of red lights are that wife will have to quit her current one and look for a job there. secondly, no free education until 5yrs for the kids...

will i still be eligible for OAS and GIS? i need to do some research on those aspects as well.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I just don't understand WHY someone would choose to move to a place with all the problems I mentioned earlier. Those highways and commutes are nasty. There's more to life than sitting in a sardine can. Google all this stuff, don't drink the koolaid.


----------



## brad (May 22, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> I just don't understand WHY someone would choose to move to a place with all the problems I mentioned earlier.


Because it's a beautiful place to live, the weather's fantastic, and most of the problems you mentioned can be avoided. I don't think you mentioned earthquakes, though.  There will be a Big One, and I wouldn't want to be there when it hits.

My brother lived most of his life in the Boston area; he is very happy in Silicon Valley and the only other place he'd consider living at this point is Seattle; and he'd only live there if he can live on a boat.


----------



## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

rookie said:


> if i move, its going to be the whole family - wife and 2 kids. couple of red lights are that wife will have to quit her current one and look for a job there. secondly, no free education until 5yrs for the kids...
> 
> will i still be eligible for OAS and GIS? i need to do some research on those aspects as well.


I assume this is likely only for a few years, and you aren't planning to apply for green cards or anything like that? Certainly would be an interesting experience for kids. I'm pretty clueless about this (never come close to working in the US myself), but check out the work visa situation carefully. I think if your company transfers you, you may be eligible for something called an L1 visa, which may let your wife work as well. The other common one is a TN visa, for various professions covered under the NAFTA agreement, but this one wouldn't qualify your wife to work. She'd have to find a job where she qualified for her own TN status. I'm sure there are a bunch of other scenarios.


----------



## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

brad said:


> Because it's a beautiful place to live, the weather's fantastic, and most of the problems you mentioned can be avoided.


I too would choose the Bay area in a heart beat over the GTA. 

Too crowded, cost of living is too high, HST, commuting times are terrible, far too cold, no ocean, incomes are ridiculously lower.


----------



## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

> No Tim Hortons...


 I'm there.


----------



## Potato (Apr 3, 2009)

NorthernRaven said:


> No Tim Hortons...


One bit of trivia I do have about California is that if you ask for a double-double there, you get a burger, not a coffee.


----------



## jagger (Jan 12, 2011)

I've lived in the Silicon Valley, the cost of living is very ridiculously high. You can't even purchase an old beatup rancher for less than a million bucks. Most jobs are in Information Technology related fields. Being in the US you'll enjoy lower taxes, but then there's gains and loses to living in any country.

In fact I know several people that did computer science degrees here, and then found employment there. A few of them came back to Canada. The US economy is in the tank, and opportunities just aren't as abundant as they used to be.


----------



## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I think the first thing you should do is to talk to a good tax accountant and make sure he/she is one who deals regularly with US/Canada income taxes. I believe that California has one of the highest state taxes in the US - you would want to find out more about that.

Personally, I feel very fortunate to be a Canadian right now, and wouldn't even consider moving to the US with its seemingly insurmountable economic problems, but then I'm not one to take risks if I don't have to.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

If it is for a short time, I would go for it. Life is too short to not take on every experience. You are probably being transferred because you are cheaper than hiring a replacement but make sure to consider all costs. And remember that nay-sayers make up most of the population. Moving to CA when everyone else is moving out might be a good thing. We have friends that live in Monteray CA and they are from Buffalo. They would never move back.


----------



## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

ddkay said:


> If you end up in Ontario, California you get the best of both worlds


lol ... love it!


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

jagger said:


> I've lived in the Silicon Valley, the cost of living is very ridiculously high. You can't even purchase an old beatup rancher for less than a million bucks.


Can't buy a beatup rancher for a million? You can have your pick nowadays for peanuts. Might have to kick the skaters and grafiti artists out of your new jelly bean pool

Some NSFW language but a behind the scenes look http://vimeo.com/9696629



Karen said:


> Personally, I feel very fortunate to be a Canadian right now, and wouldn't even consider moving to the US with its seemingly insurmountable economic problems, but then I'm not one to take risks if I don't have to.


What makes you think Canada is so immune to these "insurmountable" issues? America is preaching not to buy from Canadia, high CAD is bad for exports and our economy relies on theirs, on everyone's really. Even Euro problems can drag Canada down. The word "globalization" is no myth... Canada isn't some safe haven and we certainly aren't self sufficient

What we have right now is an opportunity to sell high in Canada, and buy low in the US.


----------



## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

None of us knows what the future holds, and it's true that Canada's economic problems may become as bad as those in the US, but I don't think there's any doubt that, as of now, we're in much better shape.


----------



## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

mode3sour said:


> Can't buy a beatup rancher for a million? You can have your pick nowadays for peanuts. Might have to kick the skaters and grafiti artists out of your new jelly bean pool
> 
> Some NSFW language but a behind the scenes look http://vimeo.com/9696629


Fresno and the Bay area, very different places.

I have family in Palo Alto, and sure housing dipped for a year or so, but nothing like elsewhere in California.

Here's the first single family house in Palo Alto I could find.

A wonderful 1000 sqft 2 bed 1 bath for $700,000.

There are pockets, like East Palo Alto that are cheaper, but it's amazing what a freeway is able to divide.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Sampson said:


> Fresno and the Bay area, very different places.
> 
> I have family in Palo Alto, and sure housing dipped for a year or so, but nothing like elsewhere in California.


I thought the title of the thread is Ontario vs California. As far as I know, California is always mentioned as one of the worst hit by the RE crash.



Karen said:


> None of us knows what the future holds, and it's true that Canada's economic problems may become as bad as those in the US, but I don't think there's any doubt that, as of now, we're in much better shape.


How so? Because the media said so? Because your house is worth a million CAD today? The US is preaching protectionism when our economy relies heavily on their imports. Sure our economy is "better" than the US according to the media, but where are the fundamental reasons exactly? I think it's ignorant to say we'll stay in much better shape in spite of their "insurmountable troubles".

I wouldn't chose to move based on finances alone, but the OP can move to a warmer climate that's on sale and already has a job waiting. I work with a Californian and the weather here depresses him while I find it amazing compared to Canada. Go figure


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> I just don't understand WHY someone would choose to move to a place with all the problems I mentioned earlier. Those highways and commutes are nasty. There's more to life than sitting in a sardine can. Google all this stuff, don't drink the koolaid.


TRM, i understand your angst but have you given a thought as to why its so crowded despite having twice the number of highways as GTA?



Sampson said:


> Fresno and the Bay area, very different places.
> 
> I have family in Palo Alto, and sure housing dipped for a year or so, but nothing like elsewhere in California.
> 
> ...


palo alto, cupertino, mountain view etc for sure are areas for millionaires. i am sure there are other areas like fremont, san jose where things are more affordable. apparently traffic is not half as bad as what it used to be in the early 2000. 

job scene in my area of work is definitely brighter there. the only problem is that with the visa situation, it might be difficult to switch around. one thought is why to disturb the applecart when everything is going well...


----------



## MoneyMaker (Jun 1, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> I just don't understand WHY someone would choose to move to a place with all the problems I mentioned earlier. Those highways and commutes are nasty. There's more to life than sitting in a sardine can. Google all this stuff, don't drink the koolaid.


It depends where he is presently. If in Toronto, then the commuting times are worse than in LA according to http://digitaljournal.com/article/289794.


----------



## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

rookie said:


> other areas like fremont, san jose where things are more affordable.


Really depends on where your work is, but yeah, San Jose, Milpitas and some of those areas are quite nice and still reasonable.

Traffic around the Bay area is much much better than GTA. You could get from metro San Fran to most anywhere in the Bay area in a "reasonable" time if need be.

I don't know where you are in your life, but view it from an experience standpoint. This is deemed as one of the more interesting/exciting places to be, so what would be the set back if you lived there for a short period of your life just to soak it in. Not everyone has good opportunities to move for work, so if the job is good, then just chalk it up as a unique period in your life.


----------



## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

Sampson said:


> Really depends on where your work is, but yeah, San Jose, Milpitas and some of those areas are quite nice and still reasonable.
> 
> Traffic around the Bay area is much much better than GTA. You could get from metro San Fran to most anywhere in the Bay area in a "reasonable" time if need be.
> 
> I don't know where you are in your life, but view it from an experience standpoint. This is deemed as one of the more interesting/exciting places to be, so what would be the set back if you lived there for a short period of your life just to soak it in. Not everyone has good opportunities to move for work, so if the job is good, then just chalk it up as a unique period in your life.


thats an interesting way to look at it. lot of food for thought...


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)




----------



## brad (May 22, 2009)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/31/gridlock-chronic-in-gta-living-city-report-card/


----------



## calrest (Apr 13, 2011)

+point for California against Ontario: more opportunities and friendly weather., But +point for Ontario against California: bigger safety and better system of justice.


----------

