# Making the leap into retirement



## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

Hey folks, looking for your advice on this one…

Financially, I think I’m pretty well set to retire comfortably in 5 years at age 55, maybe even sooner, however, my wife has recently commented that she might find it hard to “leave money on the table” so to speak, by watching me walk away from a well-paid job at 55. 

Sure, if I did continue to work past 55, then we could splurge on a bigger fancier house, a yacht, a Porsche etc, but do I really need all that stuff, and more importantly, is it worth it in exchange for the extra years I would have to spend sitting in an office? 

My conservative retirement projections show we will have enough money to live a very comfortable retirement, with ample budget for all expected expenses, including travel and other luxuries, while still projecting to leave behind a sizable estate at the end. It seems to me that my heirs are the only ones that will benefit from me working longer. Life is short, and only getting shorter. I personally feel that by age 55 my free time will be worth more than the money I currently make at work. 

In a nutshell:

How much money is enough?
At what point does time become worth more than money?
For you retirees out there, how did you finally make the leap into retirement?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I'm not a retiree (yet) to offer an advice but I think you have the answers to your questions already based on your post:

* How much money is enough? *


> *My conservative retirement projections* show we will have enough money to live a very comfortable retirement, with ample budget for all expected expenses, including travel and other luxuries, *while still projecting to leave behind a sizable estate at the end*.


*At what point does time become worth more than money?*


> ...*Life is short, and only getting shorter. *


 ... and time is worth more than $$$ when you can't take the $$$ with you.


If your wife feels you're leaving $$$ on the table, then let her take over/ or replace your job and she gets to keep the $$$ while you feel so much happier not being in the office being backstabbed or what have you. Be happy and don't worry.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mookie said:


> In a nutshell:
> 
> How much money is enough?
> At what point does time become worth more than money?
> For you retirees out there, how did you finally make the leap into retirement?


The exact same process I went through leading up to my retirement in 2006 at age 57. You answered the first two questions already....
1) When I was going to be very comfortable financially, do what we wanted AND leave a legacy, and for those with a DB pension, that you may already be working on 40 cent dollars (actual wage compared to DB pension payment).
2) When those of your age start dropping off around you and when you realize it's a 2-fer. By that I mean at age 55, you'd had at least 35-40 good years and there may be only 20 good years left to really enjoy all the opportunities that lie before you.

I left when it made no rational sense to stay. Increasing my wealth by perhaps 30%, my pension by similar amounts, and reducing my remaining 'good' time left by at least 5% per year to retire at age 62 or 65 was not sufficient monetary reward. An extra $1 million was not really going to change my life.

Spin forward 12 years and I don't regret leaving for a nanosecond. What we've done in the past 12 years, I wouldn't trade for any amount of money.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I think you already have the answer. When you said _"Life is short, and only getting shorter. I personally feel that by age 55 my free time will be worth more than the money I currently make at work."_ you have come to the right conclusion, as I did. I quit at 55 and it was the best thing for me. I've had 13 years of freedom from office politics and being told what to do every day. How valuable is that? Your time is your most precious commodity. Material possessions don't make happiness. When you hit 55 you will know if it is the right decision.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Unless your wife wants you BOTH to keep working after 55 to build up the nest egg she has no leg to stand on.

Maybe she just needs to see the numbers and how much you guys will have to live on, how much you expect to leave as a legacy, etc, and have a talk with her about time>>money.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Mookie said:


> she might find it hard to “leave money on the table” so to speak


This will always be a consideration as long as you have a marketable skill. Once you have the means to self-sufficiency, the issue should be more about whether you enjoy the job or not. If you're having fun at it, then no problem. But if it's sucking the life out of you, retire.

I think its possible for your wife to have a different perspective -- actuarially chicks live to 108 and dudes are on borrowed time at 60, so her time horizon is longer.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

If your desire is to be the richest person in the care home then by all means keep working until you are 65, or even 67....even if you prefer not to.

I went at 58, albeit with a golden handshake. It was the best thing that ever happened. The thing is none of us know just how long the piece of string is. We have had several friends pass away at retirement age 65 or shortly thereafter. Who knows?

We are very comfortable. We changed our lifestyle, we do what we want, and we travel at least twice a year for a few months at a time. About seven months after retirement I had a stark reminder of my previous life. We were enjoyed a weekend at the Hilton Melbourne Beach in Florida. It was part of a seven month post retirement trip. As we checked in on Friday there was a business meeting gong on in one of the meeting rooms. Lots of suits. That was part of my previous life. My wife leaned over and asked me if I missed those days. The answer was an immediate no.

You cannot put a price on foregone time for you. Don't try. Just go with your gut.


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

Not to take anything away from the OP, Mookie, but I am in the throes of retiring at 61 within three weeks. Folks, your comments above reflect many of the issues I have been concerned about as well. So, thank you for your input and reinforcement of my beliefs.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Mookie said:


> my wife has recently commented that she might find it hard to “leave money on the table” so to speak, by watching me walk away from a well-paid job at 55.
> 
> Sure, if I did continue to work past 55, then we could splurge on a bigger fancier house, a yacht, a Porsche etc, but do I really need all that stuff, and more importantly, is it worth it in exchange for the extra years I would have to spend sitting in an office?


I would work this out with your wife. She seems to be self-empowered to keep you strapped in the saddle in order to support her extra expenses. That is the anathema to early retirement.

You need to establish rules with DW right away. Post-retirement expenses will be a compromise.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

kcowan said:


> I would work this out with your wife. She seems to be self-empowered to keep you strapped in the saddle in order to support her *extra expenses.* That is the anathema to early retirement.
> 
> You need to establish rules with DW right away. Post-retirement expenses will be a compromise.


Per my emphasis, perhaps better stated as "desires". My take is the OP is very comfortable financially, along with a reasonable set of 'toys' to enjoy (albeit everyone has a different view of that). I have found bigger and better brings no further material increase in happiness. I do agree though the OP and spouse need to get on the same page. Time is more precious than money.

Everyone's situation is different but I worked out some math when I got close to 55. I could take my DB pension early, albeit with 5%/year penalty under 60, and it was a 1.6%/year of service plan. So.... every year I stayed beyond 55 (until 60), I could gain 6.6% (5% lower discount + 1.6%) in DB pension, plus whatever gains my portfolio would achieve before tapping into it. OTOH, if I assumed I had 20 good years of retirement (to age 75) to do most of the active things I wanted to do, every year I was decreasing that opportunity by 5% on a compounded basis such by age 60, each year of additional work was now 6.6% loss of time left to do those things. That would accelerate to 10% per year by age 65 - WTF? By age 57, I knew continuing on was bullshit and it was time to walk.

An interesting exercise for everyone would be to make some assumptions about percentage gain in cash flow availability post 55 (or 50) and plot that line against percentage time left to, say 75 (or 80 if you prefer). The visual of that parabolic graph will hit like a cold shower.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you all for your words of wisdom, and support for my goal of retirement at 55.

Despite the fact that my wife has commented about leaving money on the table due to early retirement, she has also told me many times that she’s looking forward to our retirement years, so I’m hoping she will gradually become more comfortable with the idea. Ever since we met, we’ve been focused on building our financial security by earning, saving and investing, so I guess it’s hard to stop. Neither of us have ever been big spenders, which is part of the reason we’ve come this far, but I think we are gradually learning to loosen the purse strings to enjoy the fruits of our labour. She knows we will have enough money – she’s seen the projections, so I think it’s mostly a case of breaking old habits.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Our experience over the past five years of retirement is that our financial resources have grown at a much faster rate than we anticipated. Partly because of series of returns and partly because of my conservative forecasting. Spending has been what we expected in terms of totals but different in terms of categories of spend. We are now only just breaking some old habits. Splurged on business class to Singapore this past January. First time we have ever had to pay for it. In the past if we went business internationally it was an airline points reward flight.

As we approached early retirement there were four very worthwhile things that we did. The first was to work with our accountant to plan a tax strategy going forward. This has helped us to avoid tax. The second was to really understand the workings and the formulas of my pension plan, then double check or audit the numbers that I was provided with. The third was to actually get our wills updated. The fourth was to review our investments-management fees, advisers, etc. with a view to evaluating cost, performance, and consolidation (we made significant changes and fired one bank and it's investment adviser plus a stockbroker).


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Mookie said:


> She knows we will have enough money – she’s seen the projections, so I think it’s mostly a case of breaking old habits.


Yes you might want to try to change some of those habits before you have to! It will be instructive as you plan to pull the trigger. Some will be easier than others.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Mookie said:


> however, my wife has recently commented that she might find it hard to “leave money on the table” so to speak, by watching me walk away from a well-paid job at 55.


Unless you have mandatory retirement, if this was a valid argument then a person should never retire. You are putting time ON the table not leaving money on it, when it is time you are in desperate need of, not money. You need the time, not the money.

When you were young this was not the case, but it becomes the case for all of us eventually and it is the part I think your wife is missing. If you had a terminal illness would she think you should continue to work? Well, here's a news flash. We are all terminally ill.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Mookie...as others have said...you're ready just do it. I retired 8 years ago at 53...time flies. (Oh...make sure you dont owe anything on your sailboat when you do retire)


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> (Oh...make sure you dont owe anything on your sailboat when you do retire)


Yes my good friend decided to upgrade his sailboat from 35' to 46' with 2 years to go so he could pay it off. Needed the bigger boat for longer trips.


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## NotJustDreaming (Oct 20, 2013)

Mookie, 
Five years is a long time in some respects. And some people just don’t put much thought into where they want to be that far out.

I faced a similar challenge with my husband. Not the money on the table part, but just the whole idea of not working. I really didn’t think he’d retire. I planned regardless. He was never interested in finances or even being financially independent so I was on my own there. Though he was always happy to play along with any of my savings goals, target spending etc. 

About a month prior to us setting out for a round the world trip, it finally hit him that he was retiring from a long career. It was mostly due to all the paperwork lol. It was a bit annoying but funny in a way. He asked me questions he should have known the answers to or researched months prior.

We eased into retirement a bit... I took a 20 % paycut the last four years so was technically on sabbatical for this last year with the deferred pay. This was actually done as a compromise about seven years ago when he told me he didn’t think we’d have enough money to early retire. This was even with a sweet and immediate DB for him that actually covers our annual spending, our fairly ample savings and a deferred (or CV) pension for me.

Now he’s all on board. He can’t imagine having to juggle his time and deal with work politics. This is also frustrating because he was offered a contract that he is seriously considering. He doesn’t even see the absurdity of his dilemma. But of course it’s a nice one to have.

My point, I think... when she’s closer to the five years maybe retirement will be less abstract. Regardless, most of us aren’t married to people who read financial forums and make plans as a favourite past time. So they tend to think differently than we do.


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## maylok89 (Jul 12, 2018)

Hi there, 
I am almost in the same situation, I think financially I am OK for retirement soon, not a luxury lifestyle, but comfortably, however myself, I feel kind of doubting when think "leave good money on the table" and the thought of suddenly no salary coming in, if I want to buy or spend something, I have to watch the budget, just scare me! 
And sure if working longer can get me the business tickets for travel or fancy hotels :cocksure:. But the politics at work plus the stress I have lately make me thinking more about retire very soon. My DH is talking about retire also, but I think he will work a little longer than me , and he too, "never interested in finances or even being financially independent " , (I am not the expert either, but I lately, I've done some calculations) . It is funny, I am the one should work longer since I do not have a good pension as he has. But I am really tired of working. Somehow, I think we just know it is about time ! and just hope I make the right decision with no regrets !! 
Thank you again for all the help on this forum !!


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I reached a point in my mid fifties when I finally realized that my retirement was very sound from a financial perspective. My health was good. Work was a challenge but the enjoyment was fading. However, after the realization that I was in good shape financially I took a much different attitude to work. I still worked as hard, as many hours, but I stopped 'taking it home'. I switched from a work work attitude to a let's sit back and see whether I can get one of those packages by hanging on a little. It changed my outlook completely. And a package did come along. Worked out well. But the intervening two or three years were just fine because I had managed to change my outlook, my focus, and my attitude. I could see the light at the end of the short tunnel. We were thrilled.


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## maylok89 (Jul 12, 2018)

Good advice! wow, it is nice that you got a package, that's what I need! Wish I can have it too, but I don't know it would come up that easy at my work though! But at least some of my colleagues are zealous that I could see the light at the end of the very short tunnel !! Thanks


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

There is a saying that I like that is applicable here I think. The saying is, 'you can't see there, from here.' That is true and means it is impossible for anyone to explain to you or your wife how things will differ and change when you retire. For that reason, there is no point in trying to mount a reasoned argument as to how great it will be etc. 

In regards to leaving money on the table, well yes, of course you will. How could you not? That is not a reasoned argument, it is really an emotional response dressed up as a reasoned argument. At what point would anyone not leave money on the table that they could have if they worked just one more day!

Time has been mentioned and what I can tell you is that even as a fit and healthy retiree, I maintain that each year retired someone has before age 65 is worth perhaps 5 years retired after age 65. What I mean by that is that physically, emotionally and psychologically, what you are capable of each year starts to drop dramatically as you approach and pass age 65.

At 55 and assuming you are in good health etc. you can probably quite happily do anything you did at age 45. That is no longer the case at age 65. We just returned from a vacation in Europe. Even though we did everything possible to reduce the stresses of travel, we arrived home almost thinking, never again. Every little thing that annoyed us was something that we would have ignored or not even have noticed 10 years ago. My wife says we simply become less able to 'cope' with age and I agree.

So for that reason alone I would urge anyone to retire as soon as possible, time is one thing we cannot bank.


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## fireseeker (Jul 24, 2017)

Thanks for the insight into your experience, LTA. At 52, I am pondering the 1-for-5 math.
Welcome.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

@Mookie,

You are lucky....so are others in CMF 

Sure, you could work past age 55 but why? 

If you really, really don't need (vs. want) that stuff then pull the plug.

Like you and others in CMF, it seems you know when to shut it down, when for the most part income derived from portfolio and/or ample withdrawals from portfolio > expenses + ample cash savings of 1-2 years worth.


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## Big Kahuna (Apr 30, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> There is a saying that I like that is applicable here I think. The saying is, 'you can't see there, from here.' That is true and means it is impossible for anyone to explain to you or your wife how things will differ and change when you retire. For that reason, there is no point in trying to mount a reasoned argument as to how great it will be etc.
> 
> In regards to leaving money on the table, well yes, of course you will. How could you not? That is not a reasoned argument, it is really an emotional response dressed up as a reasoned argument. At what point would anyone not leave money on the table that they could have if they worked just one more day!
> 
> ...


A lot of it is the MSM pumping out nonsense that young people cannot help but swallow-most people when they think of a life expectancy of 90 years they naturally assume (helped along by the media) they will just sail along as always and die in their 90th year. Anyone that observes knows this is almost never the actual reality-if you could sail along in good physical and mental health until age 78 and then check out you will still have had a better ride than 99% get.


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## Mookie (Feb 29, 2012)

My Own Advisor said:


> @Mookie,
> 
> You are lucky....so are others in CMF
> 
> ...


I definitely feel lucky to have been born in a part of the world where political stability, education and career opportunities have allowed me to get to the point of being able to contemplate just how early I should retire. It's definitely a first-world problem.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We agree. We live in a fabulous country. Just imagine some folks in the US have to delay early retirement because of the health insurance issue. We meet many in our travels who want to retire but cannot because of this one issue. Many Canadians, especially those who have not traveled to less advantaged countries, do not realize how fortunate we are and what an abundance of opportunities we all have.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Totally agree Ian and Mookie, re: healthcare.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Many people have ambitions to do more travelling after they retire. It's easy for anyone to understand that as we get older, health issues tend to increase and so the sooner the better from a physical standpoint. What some may not realize that health issues do not have to be that physically serious for them to have a large *financial impact on travel plans. 

It is not just Americans who have to think about health insurance, Canadians have the same potential problem of unaffordable travel insurance. We don't tend to think about 'pre-existing conditions' when it comes to healthcare. Americans looking at moving to Canada often ask on Immigration forums about it because they cannot find any reference when looking at Provincial Healthcare sites. That's because our healthcare system does not differentiate based on it at all. Move from one Province to another and you will pay the same for healthcare in your new Province as any other resident of that Province. But check just one box on a travel insurance questionnaire before heading to Florida for the annual 5 months and suddenly you find your insurance has gone from $300 to $3000 for example. Travel insurance has no doubt stopped more Canadian Snowbirds than actual physical inabilities. It becomes a financial inability.

On a recent visit to our Family Physician, she referred to my wife and myself as being 'extraordinary'. She meant exactly what the word says, 'out of the ordinary'. That's because neither of us takes any medication at all. When you are in your 40s or early 50s and contemplating early retirement, you may not even consider that factor at all. Another example of 'you can't see there, from here'.

Fireseeker, the 1 for 5 math really is a hard thing to try and explain. It sounds simple enough to understand but if you are sitting at 52 and in good health etc. then again, you can't see there, from here, no matter how much you might try to ponder it. The only way I can think of to try and put it is as my wife says, you just can't cope. It's pretty hard for you to try and ponder just not coping I'd say. The only practical thing you could do is ask people over age 70 if they agree and if the consensus does agree, then accept it on faith, that it will happen, without understanding it. I still don't understand why I can't cope as I did in the past and yet I know I can't.*


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