# Anyone considering or already using a heat pump?



## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Our NG furnace is 12 years old now and isn't going to last forever. The economics are still very much in favour of NG heat, but I am still thinking about a heat pump. I'm in Ottawa and it gets cold. My neighbour used to have an air source heat pump but he had a lot of trouble with it and wound up chucking it out and getting gas. I'm not a fan of air-source. But I live in the city on a (largish) city lot. If I wanted ground source it would have to be vertical/borehole closed loop system. I gather that would be pricey in the extreme.

I'm curious if others have done any detailed analysis of the costs or have experience with HP systems in a climate similar to ours or in a city lot.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I notice the federal carbon tax getting higher and higher on my gas bill. Since a new gas furnace lasts about 20 years, I wonder if getting a new gas furnace would be a money trap in the not too distant future because of this carbon taxing. My furnace is around 20 years old now and I've started getting a bit nervous about it dying and what will I replace it with.

Since there's no carbon tax on electricity, I wonder if an electric furnace would be a possibility? I haven't looked into the numbers. I read that they last at least 30 years though.

I always thought heat pumps weren't that great an idea in very cold climates like Ottawa.

ltr


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

FYI, you might be able to get money from the Fed gov for a heat pump install.
Eligible retrofits and grant amounts


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I live in SK so we aren't there, yet. Here, it would make more sense to stick with gas and improve your insulation and building seal where possible for cost gains.

I've never tried this product but love the idea. It will seal your whole house like a tire sealant. It isn't ideal for people with carpet but maybe carpets can be covered during the application.






The last house I built, I put great energy into sealing it as tight as a jar of pickles and the HVAC costs are comically low. It isn't even insulated all that great (R18 walls / R45 ceiling / insulated basement foundation)


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

An electric furnace will be an energy hog due to the inefficiencies with hot elements. A heat pump doesn't use nearly as much energy running the compressor as it does moving heat from ambient...except at certain low temps. The current rebates and grants are seriously worth looking at. In BC, there is also a provincial (BC Hydro) grant and sales taxes are lower on heat pumps, and higher on NG furnaces. 

Our systems (A/C and NG furnace) are now 22 years old. I am seriously considering replacing both in the next year or so with a heat pump. The one downside is those 10-15 cold days in the winter than can hit -20C from time to time. I would need to get some anecdotal evidence that the system could handle those temps and still keep the house at 18C or better (on those coldest days).


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> The one downside is those 10-15 cold days in the winter than can hit -20C from time to time.


hehe, people from Ottawa need not apply............

ltr


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Here is a link for how current heat pumps work in the cold.
How heat pumps measure up against cold climates in B.C.

From the above link ...
_While typical heat pumps are efficient to lows of -8°C, there are models that can work in temperatures down to -30°C._


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I have a few years old hi eff ng furnace, but a 20 year old r22 a/c that is low on refrigerant. We have a B vented ng storage hot water tank. Air source heat pump for me, less than 6km from climate moderating influence from Lake Ontario would heat for the lions share lot of the heating season. 

So I am considering a heat pump to replace the old a/c and maybe to supplement heating from the ex n/g furnace.

The part I am waiting to become more main stream is models to harvest waste heat from the heat pump to preheat water that will feed the n/g hot water tank. And a/c technicians and plumbers to get over the first units learning curve before I make my steps.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

The new units from Mitsubishi are apparently amazing.



ZUBA | MESCA



we have a heat pump with electric back up. Installed in 2008. our only other option here is propane. When I ran the numbers when we moved in (2017)….the operational costs were slightly above propane (when it was $0.499 litre). Propane now is going for around $0.75-0.85. I’ll be miles ahead against my neighbours.

other points

I believe heat pumps have less maintenance than traditional gas furnaces
they also operate as Ac units. So you’re existing Ac (if any) will need to go
air temperature at the register is much lower than fuel burning furnaces
furnace fan runs much longer than with fuel furnaces. A heat pump tends to “simmer” for long periods of time vs. Fuel furnaces that come on/off with regularity. I believe the heat pump air handler fans run much lower speed vs fuel air handlers
given the long run time, noise csn be a factor on the outside unit, but I think the newer units have solved that. I do recall some municipalities mandating how close the unit could be to a neighbour with the older, noisier units.

if you have nat gas, you could also look at a heat pump with nat gas backup. That would be my ideal setup If you feel the HP can’t handle your temps. I looked into a HP with propane back up in 2018. Total cost was around $12k.

im in Ontario. My home is all electric (heating, hot water, cooking). Our hydro bill was $265 a month from 2017-2022. It’s recently gone up to $300 on equal billing. 4 person home. 2 teens. Approx 2200 sq ft. Bungalow. we get lots of sun from the south which helps in the winter. Built in 1978 with r50 in the attic. Windows and doors bought in 2008.

my neighbours we’re paying about $2500 for propane and $1200-1500 for hydro. With the higher propane costs, I suspect they’ll be well over $4500year for heat and hydr…..while I’m at About $ 3600


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> An electric furnace will be an energy hog due to the inefficiencies with hot elements. A heat pump doesn't use nearly as much energy running the compressor as it does moving heat from ambient...except at certain low temps. The current rebates and grants are seriously worth looking at. In BC, there is also a provincial (BC Hydro) grant and sales taxes are lower on heat pumps, and higher on NG furnaces.
> 
> Our systems (A/C and NG furnace) are now 22 years old. I am seriously considering replacing both in the next year or so with a heat pump. The one downside is those 10-15 cold days in the winter than can hit -20C from time to time. I would need to get some anecdotal evidence that the system could handle those temps and still keep the house at 18C or better (on those coldest days).





ZUBA | MESCA


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Money172375 said:


> im in Ontario. My home is all electric (heating, hot water, cooking). Our hydro bill was $265 a month from 2017-2022. It’s recently gone up to $300 on equal billing. 4 person home. 2 teens. Appeox 2200 sq Td. Bungalow. South facing. Built in 1978 with r50 in the attic. Windows and doors bought in 2008.


That is amazing for electric heat.

We are 2 people in a slightly larger home but our combined gas (heat and hot water) and power probably average out at $225 (I don't know the exact number so consider that a semi-educated guess). If we had two teenagers, you can be sure our bills would easily match yours. Of course, we live in one of the coldest cities in Canada so that is also a factor.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Ponderling said:


> I have a few years old hi eff ng furnace, but a 20 year old r22 a/c that is low on refrigerant. We have a B vented ng storage hot water tank. Air source heat pump for me, less than 6km from climate moderating influence from Lake Ontario would heat for the lions share lot of the heating season.


We have had this discussion before and I've been ignored but you literally have a 4" hole in your roof designed to draw out warm air. That is a massive inefficiency. Electric water heat will not have the operating cost difference you think it will because you are wasting NG heating the outdoors with your chimney.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

TomB16 said:


> That is amazing for electric heat.
> 
> We are 2 people in a slightly larger home but our combined gas (heat and hot water) and power probably average out at $225 (I don't know the exact number so consider that a semi-educated guess). If we had two teenagers, you can be sure our bills would easily match yours. Of course, we live in one of the coldest cities in Canada so that is also a factor.


The first year we lived here, we weren’t on equal billing. Feb bill was $500+. HP are amazing during the should seasons (Oct, Nov, mar, april). Our units is now 14 years old. I presume the units from Mitsu would be amazing, but likely come with a heat price tag to buy.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

By the way, there are also HP hot water heaters and HP clothes driers Now. Downside, is that it makes the room these units are in a little bit colder by sucking out the ambient warm air.

isn’t BC banning the use of nat gas in new homes? I thought I heard Ontario is also trying To do it by 2030.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Select BC municipalities want to (or will) ban new construction with natural gas heat. Vancouver's ban for low rise residential new construction started Jan 1 2022, and I think Victoria is next with 2025? Most of the BC Interior likely won't do so given the higher variability in seasonal temperatures. City councils would be drawn and quartered.

Edited a few times to get language right!


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

AltaRed said:


> Select BC municipalities want to (or will) ban new construction with natural gas heat. Vancouver's ban started Jan 1 2022, and I think Victoria is next with 2025? Most of the BC Interior likely won't do so given the higher variability in seasonal temperatures. City councils would be drawn and quartered.


99% of people are going to hate this and it will be wildly unpopular for a decade at least but this is where it has to go.

Speaking of hate, power will increasingly come from nuclear. Imagine the number of e-bikes that are going to converge on Ottawa and provincial capitols to protest. Lol


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Here is a Feb 2022 CBC article that lends some insight into the "movement". https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/bans-fossil-fuel-heating-homes-1.6327113


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## KevinWaterloo (Mar 5, 2015)

Our ~22 year old central A/C unit sprung a leak a few weeks ago. Since it is a R22 (Freon) unit we needed to replace the unit and and since our furnace was also 22 years old we decided to replace that as well.
After a bunch of research (and the $5K government rebate) we've decided to install a heat pump instead that uses electrical backup. This is for a ~2500 sq foot house in Waterloo so not quite as cold as Ottawa. The technology for heat pumps has improved significantly in the past decade and they are now able to function in temperatures as low as -15. 

With the government rebate the cost was about $3000 more than a basic natural-gas furnace and A/C but the unit is higher quality with a significantly more efficient A/C (20 seer vs 15). I'm not quite convinced that it will be cheaper to run in the short term but I'm hopefully it will still pay for itself over 10 years. However the reduction in greenhouse emissions is significant and was a big factor in our decision.


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

KevinWaterloo said:


> Our ~22 year old central A/C unit sprung a leak a few weeks ago. Since it is a R22 (Freon) unit we needed to replace the unit and and since our furnace was also 22 years old we decided to replace that as well.
> After a bunch of research (and the $5K government rebate) we've decided to install a heat pump instead that uses electrical backup. This is for a ~2500 sq foot house in Waterloo so not quite as cold as Ottawa. The technology for heat pumps has improved significantly in the past decade and they are now able to function in temperatures as low as -15.
> 
> With the government rebate the cost was about $3000 more than a basic natural-gas furnace and A/C but the unit is higher quality with a significantly more efficient A/C (20 seer vs 15). I'm not quite convinced that it will be cheaper to run in the short term but I'm hopefully it will still pay for itself over 10 years. However the reduction in greenhouse emissions is significant and was a big factor in our decision.


Would be interested to know what manufacturer you went with.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Ever since we replaced our furnace and water tank with a heat pump and a tankless gas water heater, I have been getting news articles in Google about new technology heat pumps that work as cold as -15 or -20C. Mine works down to -10C before the furnace turns on as auxiliary heat. Toronto winters and for that matter, most of Ontario and Canada (with the exception of the BC coast) fall way below -10C most of the time. So there may only be a small window in the late fall or early spring when only the heat pump needs to be on. However, our furnce is a new high efficiency furnace replacing our 30 year old one. So whether or not auxiliary heat is on, our NG consumption will decrease.

Plus, we recieved $5600 in federal rebates from the Greener Homes program and $2700 from Enbridge. Yes, I admit those rebates really pushed me to make those changes even when I wanted them for many years but just couldn't muster the cash commitment. It's too bad Ontario had cancelled all its incentive programs.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

So here's a bit of a question/complaint. 
We currently use natural gas for heating (and cooking). We've only somewhat considered looking into getting a heat pump. However, BC Hydro has 2 pricing tiers depending on the amount of electricity you use. So, if I convert to a heat pump for heating, I suspect I would more regularly hit the second and more expensive tier of pricing in the winter months. The rebates would help with the capital costs of installation but my operational costs would likely go up(?). Kind of a disencentive for me unless they raise the threshhold to cross into tier 2 pricing.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

KevinWaterloo said:


> we've decided to install a heat pump instead that uses electrical backup.


Do you also have to upgrade the electrical service to 200 amp to accommodate the electric furnace?

ltr


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

heat pumps & mini-splits(not sure the difference) have been all the rage here in NL the past few years.
We have no nat. gas heating here, all either electric or oil-fired furnaces. 
Units are going in to all new builds, and everyone retro-fitting older homes. Apparently you can get a $5-10k rebate of grant from the feds for doing so. Somebody must be making a killing on that. Wait lists for installation everywhere...


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

We have a heat pump with electric heat backup in the air mover unit. The trick is to make sure you raise the temperature in small increments to avoid the electric "emergency" heat kicking in. We are on a stepped system and it's impossible to avoid going on "step 2" where the rates are much higher. Downside I see is BC Hydro has a monopoly on rates here, which are going nowhere but up as infrastructure demand continues upward.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

We live in Kelowna and my wife and I occupy a 2100 sq ft rancher with a w/o lower level. Had an older heat pump with electric back up and the latter was very costly. Upgraded our heat pump about 10 yrs ago and also switched to a natural gas furnace. Despite having a quality heat pump it has trouble keeping up in the cooler winter and even during the shoulder seasons. Until recently natural gas was cheap so we mainly used the heat pump as an air conditioner but plan to use it more this fall as temperatures decrease. Will probably not use it after temperatures get below freezing. The natural gas modulating fan is great feature in the newer furnaces. Quite pleased with our current setup.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

We had a geothermal system installed in 2011. We're all electric here (near Trenton, ON). Before the geo, we used 1270 kw/month. After the geo, we have averaged 750 kw. The auxiliary heat rarely comes on. It also provides hot water assist. The only maintenance we have is to clean the filter. No regrets.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Retired Peasant said:


> We had a geothermal system installed in 2011. We're all electric here


Since the backup for the heat pump is electric, do you have 200 amp electrical service in your home?

What sort of "hole"? did they have to dig in your yard?

ltr


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes, 200 amp service was already there (because of electric heat with air source heat pump prior to geo). They put a horizontal loop in (6 feet down). We have 20 acres so no shortage of area to dig. It was also easy digging, as it's mostly sand. It provides heat in the winter, and cooling in the summer, as well as supplementing the water heater.

I've been reading lately that many/most new homes are built with 200 amp service in anticipation of electric vehicles.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Retired Peasant said:


> They put a horizontal loop in (6 feet down).


Interesting. So is this sort of installation practical with a standard city 100'x50' lot? Does it require a huge hole with a back hoe?



Retired Peasant said:


> I've been reading lately that many/most new homes are built with 200 amp service in anticipation of electric vehicles.


Most existing houses have 100 amp service since they are heated with fossil fuel and also don't require charging an electric car. I can't imagine the fiasco that we are facing in the next decade with a wholesale switch to electric heating and charging electric cars.
I see in Quebec that by the end of 2023, fossil fuels will no longer be allowed to be used to heat new buildings or be repaired or replaced. The new decree also bans the repair of heating systems running on fuel that are more than 20-years-old and oil-powered water heaters that are more than 10-years-old. 

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> Interesting. So is this sort of installation practical with a standard city 100'x50' lot? Does it require a huge hole with a back hoe?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have 400a service. My electrical room puts the Ghostbusters containment unit to shame.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

like_to_retire said:


> Interesting. So is this sort of installation practical with a standard city 100'x50' lot? Does it require a huge hole with a back hoe?


They dug a trench out and around in a loop, so not a single big hole; yes they used back hoes. I'd estimate an area of about 200'x100'; buried 5 lines in the one trench. I can't see it working on a 100x50 lot. They'd probably have to use vertical loops in the city.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Retired Peasant said:


> They dug a trench out and around in a loop, so not a single big hole; yes they used back hoes. I'd estimate an area of about 200'x100'; buried 5 lines in the one trench. I can't see it working on a 100x50 lot.


OK, so geothermal appears to be a non-starter for city folk. That only leaves simple electric heating as a replacement for gas furnaces.

ltr


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I was curious is anyone considered replacing their AC unit with a heat pump. It does mean you retain your current furnace as backup, but since a heat pump essentially an AC unit that can run in both directions, it seems like it would be worth using a heat pump if your AC is reaching its end of life.


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

A while back, I think I recall reading something about neighbourhood geothermal solutions. I can't recall where though, like North America or Europe?? And yeah, the loops were vertical.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> I was curious is anyone considered replacing their AC unit with a heat pump. It does mean you retain your current furnace as backup, but since a heat pump essentially an AC unit that can run in both directions, it seems like it would be worth using a heat pump if your AC is reaching its end of life.


I would support it. Our heat pump is primarily used as an air conditioner but with increasing natural gas prices will probably use it more during the shoulder seasons. Prefer gas during the cold weather. We live in Kelowna where the winters are cool and the summers are hot. Our home is a 2100 sq ft rancher plus a walk out lower level of the same amount. Electricity and gas costs are around 2800.00 PA.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> OK, so geothermal appears to be a non-starter for city folk. That only leaves simple electric heating as a replacement for gas furnaces.
> 
> ltr


It would make sense to use more district heating as is common in Europe.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

birdman said:


> I would support it. Our heat pump is primarily used as an air conditioner but with increasing natural gas prices will probably use it more during the shoulder seasons. Prefer gas during the cold weather. We live in Kelowna where the winters are cool and the summers are hot. Our home is a 2100 sq ft rancher plus a walk out lower level of the same amount. Electricity and gas costs are around 2800.00 PA.


Sounds good. I'm wondering what kind of thermostat controls you have. We have a Nest and when we do cooling, it turns on the AC, and when heating it'll turn on the furnace. So I was curious on how it handles using the heat pump as heating until you reach the cold season.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> Sounds good. I'm wondering what kind of thermostat controls you have. We have a Nest and when we do cooling, it turns on the AC, and when heating it'll turn on the furnace. So I was curious on how it handles using the heat pump as heating until you reach the cold season.


In ours there are a number of settings on the thermostat. ie You set heat pump or gas. Then you have a thermostat which you set for the time of day and the days of the week you would like the heat pump or furnace to come on. Presently the heat pump is what is doing both our heating and cooling (99.9% cooling) and it is set to cool to 25.5 C during the day and at 9 pm it is set to cool to 24 deg until 6 am when it reverts back to 25.5. Easy peasey. You can set different temperatures for different days and for example we have a ski condo and regularly go up for a number of days and simply set the thermostat to "Vacation Mode" which you set any temperature you want. In the winter ours (actually the furnace goes on but the same applies if it was the HP -heat pump). Our heat is set to 17 C but it is programmed to heat up to 23 deg at the time of our return. The setting would go as follows: Start Vacation date, time, temperature and the end date, time and temperature. The same would apply to cooling and if we went on vacation in the summer for a couple of weeks I would just click on vacation, 14 days, temperature(27 deg). Would also program it to cool to 25.5 deg for when we return.
Now, in regards to the furnace, it ours is set to only come on if the temperature goes to say minus 2 C otherwise the heat pump is in control. You will have to figure out how you run the system but seldom both units are programmed together. In some cases and depending on the price of natural gas, it may be cheeper to run one over the other. The thermostat can also be set to reduce temperatures if you are out of the house for more than 3 hrs?? as it has a sensor in it that shut down if you are not in the house. Never used this feature and not even sure if it works. Zone heating is also available. Another nice feature is the modulating furnace and heat pump?? fan motors as they are modulating. In other words, if it is winter and say we get up at 6:30 am, we would program the thermostat to have the at say 21 C at 6:30. The furnace would on very slowly say 5:30 and you can't even hear it. It self adjusts heat and fan speed to reach the 21 C temp. at 6:30 am. If you wish it a bit warmer you simply press a button to go up to the desired temp. It goes up in .5 deg increments. There is also a temperature up and down button you can press to increase or decrease the temperature to a different level and it will do that right away. We would use this if we went to bed early, got up early, or had company. Really enjoy the modulating furnace.
Thats about it and hope I got it right. Look, I am certainly not an expert on the subject but it works well for us and we are very content. Probably best if you PM me as opposed to my talking away here forever. If you are ever in Kelowna you are welcome to take a look.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

One thing about heat pumps for heating, it’s not recommend to set back the temperature at Night. You’re more likely to trigger the backup system in the morning when it tries to bring the temp back up.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> OK, so geothermal appears to be a non-starter for city folk. That only leaves simple electric heating as a replacement for gas furnaces.
> 
> ltr


Naw they had it in German cities geo thermal was pretty much standard on new builds

Just requires some city planning ahead

They also buried all the electrical and internet cables etc


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

m3s said:


> Naw they had it in German cities geo thermal was pretty much standard on new builds


When I looked at a typical installation for a mid size home it indicated I would need to dig 4 foot trenches about 600 feet in length per ton, and that 3 tons was typical, so I would need to trench about 1800 feet of trenches on my 100 foot city lot.

It would seem only doable for those in the country with a lot of land and open fields.

ltr


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> When I looked at a typical installation for a mid size home it indicated I would need to dig 4 foot trenches about 600 feet in length per ton, and that 3 tons was typical, so I would need to trench about 1800 feet of trenches on my 100 foot city lot.
> 
> It would seem only doable for those in the country with a lot of land and open fields.
> 
> ltr


It's amazing how efficient they are in Europe with far less space

Couldn't tell you how they do it. Probably under the driveways/roads and foundations.

They literally don't even have yards. They also farm the land we would consider ditch


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

birdman said:


> In ours there are a number of settings on the thermostat. ie You set heat pump or gas. Then you have a thermostat which you set for the time of day and the days of the week you would like the heat pump or furnace to come on. Presently the heat pump is what is doing both our heating and cooling (99.9% cooling) and it is set to cool to 25.5 C during the day and at 9 pm it is set to cool to 24 deg until 6 am when it reverts back to 25.5. Easy peasey. You can set different temperatures for different days and for example we have a ski condo and regularly go up for a number of days and simply set the thermostat to "Vacation Mode" which you set any temperature you want. In the winter ours (actually the furnace goes on but the same applies if it was the HP -heat pump). Our heat is set to 17 C but it is programmed to heat up to 23 deg at the time of our return. The setting would go as follows: Start Vacation date, time, temperature and the end date, time and temperature. The same would apply to cooling and if we went on vacation in the summer for a couple of weeks I would just click on vacation, 14 days, temperature(27 deg). Would also program it to cool to 25.5 deg for when we return.
> Now, in regards to the furnace, it ours is set to only come on if the temperature goes to say minus 2 C otherwise the heat pump is in control. You will have to figure out how you run the system but seldom both units are programmed together. In some cases and depending on the price of natural gas, it may be cheeper to run one over the other. The thermostat can also be set to reduce temperatures if you are out of the house for more than 3 hrs?? as it has a sensor in it that shut down if you are not in the house. Never used this feature and not even sure if it works. Zone heating is also available. Another nice feature is the modulating furnace and heat pump?? fan motors as they are modulating. In other words, if it is winter and say we get up at 6:30 am, we would program the thermostat to have the at say 21 C at 6:30. The furnace would on very slowly say 5:30 and you can't even hear it. It self adjusts heat and fan speed to reach the 21 C temp. at 6:30 am. If you wish it a bit warmer you simply press a button to go up to the desired temp. It goes up in .5 deg increments. There is also a temperature up and down button you can press to increase or decrease the temperature to a different level and it will do that right away. We would use this if we went to bed early, got up early, or had company. Really enjoy the modulating furnace.
> Thats about it and hope I got it right. Look, I am certainly not an expert on the subject but it works well for us and we are very content. Probably best if you PM me as opposed to my talking away here forever. If you are ever in Kelowna you are welcome to take a look.


What you wrote was comprehensive enough. Thanks. It sounds like a reasonable option should our AC unit die.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Wow, go away for a couple of days and look at all the discussion. Thanks for all the information and ideas.

My electrical service is only 100A at the minute, so I could likely not have electric back-up heat without first upgrading that. The panel and service entrance are reasonably recent, so that would likely be financially feasible. I guess I should check into that. The most practical approach for me would probably be to replace the A/C with an air source heat pump and keep the gas for backup heat and hot water. That would be only a very minor win, IMO.

Trench installation of ground-source loops would be utterly impractical on a 65x100 lot, but I think the borehole method would work. I understand the boreholes can be under your garage or driveway too. Only getting them drilled is a huge expense.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

TomB16 said:


> 99% of people are going to hate this and it will be wildly unpopular for a decade at least but this is where it has to go.


It doesn't "have" to go that way. Politically it will though regardless of what it costs.

I'm glad I don't live in BC. We have a HE gas furnace and enjoy low heating bills.


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