# This is a TFSA thread



## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

Howdy all,

I am interested in comparing the progess of TFSAs with others in the forum. On the web the main discussion is always 'RRSP or TFSA?' which is getting stale.

I am interested in hearing how people are doing, what they have in their acct(s) what they have learned, are they happy with company (TDW, Etrade etc) plus whatever people want to share about their TFSAs.

To begin, I am at TDW and have a single investment in mine (yeah I am using it as gambling account) and the book value today is $20,340, which includes the 2010 contribution. My plan is to let this stock soar and then cash in some or all and invest in growth stocks with distributions/dividends. I am also hoping that I will be able to transfer all of my investments into the TFSAs over time.

How about you?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Great thread!

I do have the maximums invested for 2009 and 2010 but I treat the account merely as a holding place for my rainy day cash fund. Right now I've got a few pennies more than $10K there now. This money is fluid and can be accessed by placing a call to RBC. When I set up the account I was surprised that they asked me about investing the money since I had thought that these were simply sheltered cash savings accounts. I don't want to take chances with market funds in this account for the time being. By January 2011 I will have $15K of principle stored there. I'll add $5K per year for the next few years at least, after which point I'll have to re-eavluate where I put my money.

I realize this is a totally elementary approach compared to what many other people are doing. The good news is this is not cast in stone and the cash can easily be moved around, invested later etc.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Most of the questions you have asked are irrelevant to whether or not funds are in a TFSA. (Other than to satisfy your idle curiosity.) A TFSA could hold everything from savings account to stocks, depending on the investor profile.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Yes to what OGG said, and I'm a case in point: my TFSA is fully funded for 2009 and 2010 but I use it as my emergency fund, not a money-making machine. So it's sitting in an ING account. Worth about $10,120 at this point and I'm perfectly happy with that.


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

Max contributions for 2009 and 2010. Have made about $7200 from gains and dividends/distributions.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

brad:



brad said:


> Yes to what OGG said, and I'm a case in point: my TFSA is fully funded for 2009 and 2010 but I use it as my emergency fund, not a money-making machine. So it's sitting in an ING account. Worth about $10,120 at this point and I'm perfectly happy with that.


Do you have a goal for the amount of emergency fund you want to ultimately have? What will you do in future TFSA contribution years once you have achieved your goal?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

lister said:


> Max contributions for 2009 and 2010. Have made about $7200 from gains and dividends/distributions.


That's like a 72%+ return!  What's in your water?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> brad:
> 
> Do you have a goal for the amount of emergency fund you want to ultimately have? What will you do in future TFSA contribution years once you have achieved your goal?


No emergency is too big for me ;-)

Seriously, though, my goal is $50K for emergencies (which I think of as a degree of self-insurance), and I'll also keep contributing to it to provide some "sabbatical" money if I want to take a few months off. It'll take me another 8 years to reach $50K, and at that point I'll be getting close to 60 years old, so will probably just keep socking it in there, treating it as a liquid and secure piggybank that I can tap into as needed as I transition toward semi-retirement.

My approach is full of lost opportunities to make more money, but i don't care. If I were younger I'd probably do it differently but at this stage in my life a healthy emergency fund is a priority for me.


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> That's like a 72%+ return!  What's in your water?


Natural flavours, citric acid, sodium hexametaphosphate, phosphoric acid, sodium benzoate, sodium citrate, sucralose and calcium disodium EDTA.

(Raspberry flavour) 

The largest gain was from WRK.UN. I bought in back when it was yielding over 20% well ahead of the stock split. The stock price has doubled since the purchase. I wish I had more cash available then to have bought more stock. Oh well. Gotta crawl before you can walk then run. The other large gain came from a junior oil company.

I also had WRK.UN in my RRSP but used most of the profits there to bail my *** out of another stock that tanked and hasn't recovered. So I'm no genius. 

I do plan on being back in WRK.UN at some point in the future.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Interesting, brad!

That brings to mind another question: withdrawals. Has anyone tried to WITHDRAW money from their TFSA? How easy was it? I deal with the ROYAL BANK and apparently I can't use online banking to move the money into my savings account, I need to call them during business hours and they will apparently "counsel" me...anyone have more details of what's involved in withdrawing cash from the TFSA?


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Most of the questions you have asked are irrelevant to whether or not funds are in a TFSA. (Other than to satisfy your idle curiosity.) A TFSA could hold everything from savings account to stocks, depending on the investor profile.


I disagree. In other threads people have complained and discussed the issue of costs, services and interest rates (that change) at different institutions. Since we all have the option to move, this is relevant.

What people are using their accounts for (emergency fund/gambling account) is more useful to the forum readers than to satisfy my idle curiosity. 

Additionally, due to the unique nature of the tax-free aspect, investors may choose to carry different or a different mix of investments in their TFSA. The various reasons for this would be relevant to others as well. There are many questions regarding this on the web where people are asking what should be held in a regular account, versus an RRSP, versus a TFSA etc.

Indeed a TFSA can hold many, many types of investments, but not all. 

Maybe you should check in on the thread and see what is being discussed and if it is relevant to you or not?


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> That brings to mind another question: withdrawals. Has anyone tried to WITHDRAW money from their TFSA? How easy was it? ...anyone have more details of what's involved in withdrawing cash from the TFSA?


Not yet. I had planned that once I diversified into distribution and dividend paying investments, I would make monthly withdrawals and put to my mortgage or RRSPs. However at TDW you get one free withdrawal per year and any other incurs a $25 fee! Watch out for this cost.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> That brings to mind another question: withdrawals. Has anyone tried to WITHDRAW money from their TFSA? How easy was it? I deal with the ROYAL BANK and apparently I can't use online banking to move the money into my savings account, I need to call them during business hours and they will apparently "counsel" me...anyone have more details of what's involved in withdrawing cash from the TFSA?


If you check the threads for last year you will find a number of posts from idiots who made frequent withdrawals and re-contributions, sometimes at different institutions, without reading the rules, and wound up in deep doo-doo with CRA. So it's probably sensible of RBC to insist you talk to an agent first.


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## Soils4Peace (Mar 14, 2010)

I am at TDW and since my total is over $100k I can trade for $9.99 and most annual fees are waived. No issues - it is the simplest and littlest investment account I have.

I started the TFSA in the mid January correction with $10k and now it is at $11,242. Not bad for two months. I invested in three income trusts, with a monthly cash flow of just under $100.


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## goertzen (Nov 18, 2009)

*notice of assessment*

My wife got her notice of assessment recently, and interestingly it said she had a $10,000 TFSA limit despite contributions in early 2009 and early 2010 at ING. I can understand the 2010 contribution being too late, but I expected the 2009 contrib to be reflected in the total.

Also, I had no problem removing cash from my TFSA at ING at the end of 2009. As easy as if it were a savings account. I put some back in this year into their Streetwise fund.


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## yupislyr (Nov 16, 2009)

goertzen said:


> My wife got her notice of assessment recently, and interestingly it said she had a $10,000 TFSA limit despite contributions in early 2009 and early 2010 at ING. I can understand the 2010 contribution being too late, but I expected the 2009 contrib to be reflected in the total.


Try looking online using CRA's "My Account" service and you'll probably see more up to date TFSA contrib info. 

Even then though, my tax refund was processed and deposited into my account in February but My Account online was still showing no TFSA contributions up until a few weeks ago.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

The CRA only required financial companies to report TFSA account activity starting this month for 2009 contributions. I definitely would ignore any TFSA info you see on the Notice of Assessment for a while. The one you get in 2011 might be more accurate.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

Today my TFSA is at $27,120.

The Gambler


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## Assetologist (Apr 19, 2009)

DavidJD said:


> Today my TFSA is at $27,120.
> 
> The Gambler


Very nice!!

For me the TFSP(lan) is a 'homerun' account which help to keep my hands off our RRSPs/Taxable accounts etc.

"Know Thyself"

That said I only loaded the funds this month for 2009/2010.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

Assetologist said:


> Very nice!!
> 
> For me the TFSP(lan) is a 'homerun' account which help to keep my hands off our RRSPs/Taxable account.


Indeed!

Before the market opened $30,849 

The Gambler


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

DavidJD said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Before the market opened $30,849
> 
> The Gambler


Since the market opened...$44,070 I think I need a drink.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

quietly & without fanfare, bmo investorline has just announced that its informal de facto policy of zero fees for tax free savings accounts has now become official and permanent. Apparently this means accounts of all sizes, including clients whose sole assets at bmo would be one tfsa with only 10k in it.


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## Ratjelly (May 23, 2009)

*TFSA First Year Return*

About $2,270 increase from dividends/share price on the first $5,000. Just moved my second $5,000 in so stay tuned!


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm very excited putting money in a TFSA. I will be out of debt for the first time in more than 10 years. I will be able to contribute $1000 each month from June 2010. My goal is to buy a house or condo in 2015. Thanks to all of you, I will educate myself on money matters and make a sound decision. Thanks.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Ratjelly said:


> About $2,270 increase from dividends/share price on the first $5,000.


How?


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## Ratjelly (May 23, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> How?


Like a lot of others - high-risk income trusts, but will try and "move up" to some more stable dividend vehicles once I start diversifying in the TFSA. Everybody made money last year - this upcoming year will prove a little more challenging I'm sure. Note the share prices at purchase time. I'm with TDW.

My only regret so far is not jumping into the TFSA in early January...I moved money in throughout the year. Even a little late this year...

Cash Balance (after settlement): $1,828.63 
Securities Market Value: $10,681.00 
Securities Book Value: $8,502.36 
Total Market Value: $12,509.63 
Total Book Value: $10,330.99 

INNVEST REAL EST INVT T/U 500 $6.78 $1,954.96 $3,390.00 

Symbol: INN.UN
Average Cost/Unit: $3.91

RIOCAN R/ESTATE INV T/U 100 $19.41 $1,174.40 $1,941.00 

Symbol: REI.UN
Average Cost/Unit: $11.74

ROGERS SUGAR INC FND T/U 500 $4.92 $2,404.00 $2,460.00 

Symbol: RSI.UN
Average Cost/Unit: $4.81
Loan Value: N/A

TEMPLE REIT T/U 1,000 $2.89 $2,969.00 $2,890.00 

+ Cash $1,828.63 
Totals $12,509.63


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

ING advertize 3%. On their website they're not saying if this is for a limited time only or not. I met with a CIBC rep, and she offered me 1%! Please explain.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

So, has anyone been doing cool things (with results to show for it) like rat mentioned above with their TFSA?

Mine is just simple cash at the moment as that's where I keep my rainy day fund at the moment. But in future years I may start to play around with at least some of the money after learning more from the fine folks at CMF!


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

gambling account.

book value $9,985
market value $36,612

one stock


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

The junior oil play has been doing very well. It recently had a high and is just slightly off of that right now. So coupled with some distributions from various companies and capital gains from WRK.UN (as previously mentioned) and Apple, our TFSAs combined are currently valued at about $65K. I put in the max of $10K each so we've gained about $45K so far. Next year's TFSA and this & next years RRSP contributions will be in different sectors to gain some diversification but will still be fairly aggressive stock choices.

I expect the junior oil play to continue to do well and hopefully in a few years will allow me to retire from my current profession and pursue other things if I choose to do so. There are a few industries I'd like to get into that I have an interest in but that's difficult to do for the line of work that I currently do. We plan to continue contributing to our TFSAs and RRSPs to further enhance our lifestyles down the road.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

DavidJD said:


> gambling account.
> 
> book value $9,985
> market value $36,612
> ...



One stock with market value of $36,612???


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

Taxsaver said:


> One stock with market value of $36,612???


many units/stocks of a single company.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

don't. even. Think. of. trying. to. tell. us. this. was. EIF.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> don't. even. Think. of. trying. to. tell. us. this. was. EIF.


Hah hah! I am laughing out loud and making a smiley face with punctuation

No this is a junior mining exploration company with a story line that is almost too good to be true. I am expecting it to skyrocket any day. Well I have been expecting it to do that for months and months.

They are due to go into production anytime now.

If the above happens I hope to buy. Eif. and. the. like. in. my. TFSA.


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

So the junior oil play got bought and I cashed out (actually sold ahead of time for higher than the purchase share price.) I wasn't really happy about that as I had hoped it would continue higher for a few years. Bottom line though I made some good money from it. I took that money and put it into three mining stocks. Two are doing quite well with a lot of potential to go higher and one is recovering nicely back to what I paid for it. As of this morning my TFSA was worth $74K from the initial $10K invested. If that other stock that is down recovered, the amount would be around $80K.

Add in the spouse's TFSA and we're sitting at about $100K.


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## Assetologist (Apr 19, 2009)

*Tax-Free Investment Account*



lister said:


> Add in the spouse's TFSA and we're sitting at about $100K.


Well played!
This, I believe, is how the TFIA should be used but of course this depends on one's current situation.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

Assetologist said:


> Well played!
> This, I believe, is how the TFIA should be used but of course this depends on one's current situation.


I tend to agree more and more.

I bough some REIT sorely for tax purpose... few months later i came to realize that no investment should be made only for tax implications. Will probably sell the fucker and use TFSA as a "play account"


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Assetologist said:


> Well played!
> This, I believe, is how the TFIA should be used but of course this depends on one's current situation.


I agree that the TFSA is the best place for putting your sky-rocketing stocks.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> I agree that the TFSA is the best place for putting your sky-rocketing stocks.


Yea but 10,000 is way too small a stake in all those skyrocketing stocks!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

lister said:


> As of this morning my TFSA was worth $74K from the initial $10K invested. If that other stock that is down recovered, the amount would be around $80K.
> 
> Add in the spouse's TFSA and we're sitting at about $100K.


That is an awesome record, congratulations!
Given the small amount of capital involved ($10K each), I'd think each and every one of your picks must have turned out to be a 10-bagger.
Are you professionally trained or have some specialized knowledge of mining?
How are you able to pick junior mining stocks with such remarkable success?


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

kcowan said:


> Yea but 10,000 is way too small a stake in all those skyrocketing stocks!


True, but the contrib amount goes up by $5,000 each year.

If you can invest that $5k in a 10-20 bagger everytime....that would be ok.


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## mutzy (Jul 26, 2010)

*smallcaps are hot*

Not all that risky if you kinda understand them.
Sell on news; buy back if it is still a good story.
V.amz-lots of upside
V.roi- doubled but high risk
T.uuu- hanging in for 1.06 div., then who knows, depends on uranium price
T.bxi- huge potential
T.dm.-Polymet mine needs to get permitting then will take off.
t.vtr- bought this stock when it was Birim res., kinda gave up on it, then bang
VTR, good property and gold price.
Also had a little luck.
Love that TFSA
Thanks Harp.


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## lister (Apr 3, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> That is an awesome record, congratulations!
> Given the small amount of capital involved ($10K each), I'd think each and every one of your picks must have turned out to be a 10-bagger.
> Are you professionally trained or have some specialized knowledge of mining?
> How are you able to pick junior mining stocks with such remarkable success?


Not professionally trained nor have any specialized knowledge of mining.

Maybe I'm just lucky though then again I have picked some stagnant stocks too. I just do research on the market, the company, observe the stock performance, find out what's being said about the company (weeding out the pushers and the bashers), try to figure out a good entry point and what the potential of the stock is.

I've also had some success picking oil and REITs.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

What year does the TFSA contribution get indexed to $5500?


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## Pigzfly (Dec 2, 2010)

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/tpcs/tfsa-celi/cntrbtn-eng.html

CRA quote: 
The $5,000 TFSA dollar limit is indexed based on the inflation rate. The indexed amount will be rounded to the nearest $500. For example, assuming that the inflation rate is 2% for 2009 to 2011, the TFSA dollar limit would be $5,000 for 2009, 2010 and 2011, but would increase to $5,500 for 2012.


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## ccuinns (Apr 1, 2010)

*Next additions to TFSA*

Long time lurker, first post

Getting ready to research for 2011 TFSA investment.

I have done well with mine so far, mostly because of luck and good timing.
I started in early 2009 and everything has mostly gone up well. 
In particular I had a good run with CWT.UN which was up about 150% a short while ago, but it has come back a bit in the last month or so. Still great, got in at $9 and took back my original investment and have left the profit in it, still yielding the 13% or more (can't remember exactly). So I have used a bit of the gains to play in junior miner types hoping for a small home run to boost my base for the TFSA. Looking at SD, CUI, SXL plus others.
It is a roller coaster ride for sure. I'll see how those ones do for me, not enough to retire on, but maybe add some fun to the mix.

I want to get some ideas for things that pay a good yield that can take advantage of the tax/gains shelter of TFSA, not just regular blue chips which I am doing in a non registered method with DRIPs.

I know I am not going to find the easy 10% plus yields that were everywhere in 2009 (without alot of extra risk) , but I would like more than 4.5-6% yield, that I can get with my DRIPs. I like the idea of REITs within the TFSA, since it shelters the return of capital and the junior miners etc that I am playing in will be sheltered for big capital gains.

Any good ideas for 7% plus yields?
Are we going to see a bit of an RRSP effect with markets doing well, so people will pour money into things resulting in some nice gains in Jan to March?

Chris


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## Betzy (Feb 7, 2011)

I truly believe the TDSA will be an amazing modest wealth builder for those taking full advantage of it.
We got in this late in the game, Dec 2009 I read one book and have been reading ever since. Took over all our Finances and have not looked back!
Me: Just toped up to full 15k with $16,659 value today (First 5k went in and invested Dec 07-2010) COS,TRP,GBB,GER

Wife: Also just toped up to 12k(no more available cash right now) $12,877.00 Value today (first 5k went in and invested on Feb 10-2011) ABT(feb 10),REI.UN(dec 13-10),BNS(Mar 04-11)

I am be no means an investor, I consider this modest gain in short time to be just good timing, not anticipated at all.

Personally we have a plan for the TFSA providing a great income down the road with DIV Equities and growth. I sure hope the Gov does not change these for at least 10yrs
Even better if they modify to $5500 yearly cont in 2012.

I have made a quick excel SS for those would like to know just how much the TFSA could make them in 10yrs...Glad to share.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> That's like a 72%+ return!  What's in your water?


*shrug* - water, minerals and whatever the municipality pumps into it! *grin*


But seriously, I'm kicking myself for being focused on transferring trust units so that I didn't buy the leveraged bank/piplelines split share that I bought in my non-registered account. It's up 300+%. *sigh*

I can't complain though - when I checked in Dec 2010, I was $200 short of maxing out 2009/2010 but the total balance was about $12K. One of the trusts have now converted to a stock and running at a 30% gain with dividends of 8.4% based on my cost.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Interesting, brad!
> 
> That brings to mind another question: withdrawals. Has anyone tried to WITHDRAW money from their TFSA? How easy was it? I deal with the ROYAL BANK and apparently I can't use online banking to move the money into my savings account, I need to call them during business hours and they will apparently "counsel" me...anyone have more details of what's involved in withdrawing cash from the TFSA?


I transferred out of both the brokerage account and the savings account to pre-pay more of my mortgage in Dec 2010. Saving tax free at 1.5% and 0.5% versus prepaying the 5.8% mortgage didn't seem like a bargain.

First, the brokerage TFSA.

I had to call the brokerage, where the agent mentioned that:
a) I couldn't put the money back until 2011 (being Dec 20 something, no big deal).
b) any additional withdrawals in 2010 would generate a fee so if I had any doubts as to how much I needed, I should withdraw the maximum.
This was about a six minute wait for an agent to come onto the phone and about ten minutes on the phone with the agent.

Second, the savings account TFSA.

I went online, programmed the transfer to my chequing account for the following day and *voila*, it was there on schedule when I looked the next day. This was about five minutes start to finish. 

Note that with all the problems where people over-contributed generating penalties, for the savings account I've noticed that any time I am online and go anywhere near the TFSA, there are warnings about "can't put withdrawals back until next year". 


Cheers


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## lewin (Jan 10, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> Interesting, brad!
> 
> That brings to mind another question: withdrawals. Has anyone tried to WITHDRAW money from their TFSA? How easy was it? I deal with the ROYAL BANK and apparently I can't use online banking to move the money into my savings account, I need to call them during business hours and they will apparently "counsel" me...anyone have more details of what's involved in withdrawing cash from the TFSA?


That's just an RBC thing. They make it easy to contribute or switch investments, but if you want to take money out it involves a phone call... presumably so they have one last chance to talk you out of it. I don't know when you last called, but they recently changed online banking so you *can* withdraw online now. 

(My TV though Bell is the same way. I can upgrade my package online ("enhance" it) but any reduction in services requires a phone call.)


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Thanks lewin. I think you're right. Their marketing makes it sound like I can manage it all online, but experience has shown me that I can do very little there. Seems I have to talk to a person to do most of what needs to be done. Oh well, no big deal, they answer the phone usually on the 1st or 2nd ring so I don't really mind. The people who answer at RBC AM are always sharp and knowledgeable so I don't mind.


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## THE_UNIT (Feb 25, 2011)

lister said:


> So the junior oil play got bought and I cashed out (actually sold ahead of time for higher than the purchase share price.) I wasn't really happy about that as I had hoped it would continue higher for a few years. Bottom line though I made some good money from it. I took that money and put it into three mining stocks. Two are doing quite well with a lot of potential to go higher and one is recovering nicely back to what I paid for it. As of this morning my TFSA was worth $74K from the initial $10K invested. If that other stock that is down recovered, the amount would be around $80K.
> 
> Add in the spouse's TFSA and we're sitting at about $100K.


I am 22 years old and new to investing. I have approximately 12 k invested into a tfsa account at cibc and i'm only getting like 50 cents a day . Can someone explain to me how you invest in these companies cause i am interested in this. When i met with a advisor she didn't explain stocks or anything basically just took my money and put it into this high interest savings account so any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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