# CIBC Pooled funds vs. self-managed (couch potato) with ETF's etc.



## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

So I'm in the early stages of _considering _firing my "advisor" (teller-with-an-office) and managing my own registered and non-registered products. 

Here's the preliminary teeter totter I'm riding. I read all these articles (and watched a recent CBC thing - Marketplace maybe) about the bad banks charging us for nothing -threads here that say DIY is a faster road to retirement. 

Do these couch potato portfolios do any better? Where's the proof? 

The Pooled or "Managed Portfolio" products my teller-with-an-office is putting me in seem to have a 5 year history of earning 3 to 6% with medium amounts of risk (I can list the actual ones I'm in if anyone wants to know) Those returns are after the 1.75 to 2.25% fees, no? 

I'm looking at this article "Global Couch Potato 10 year report card" http://www.moneysense.ca/2011/05/13/could-you-have-picked-the-winning-funds/
Am I reading that right? A couch potato fund averages 4%? 

Looking at this post by Dana who used to work for CIBC: http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...anaged-Portfolio?p=41674&viewfull=1#post41674
one would think there's a huge benefit to the bank, but that doesn't make me bitter if the returns are there. Should it? Am I in the dark about something. I want to have my money working its hardest for me, but I don't want to endure unnecessary stress for no additional gain.


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## kyboch (Dec 23, 2011)

hystat said:


> So I'm in the early stages of _considering _firing my "advisor" (teller-with-an-office) and managing my own registered and non-registered products.
> 
> Here's the preliminary teeter totter I'm riding. I read all these articles (and watched a recent CBC thing - Marketplace maybe) about the bad banks charging us for nothing -threads here that say DIY is a faster road to retirement.
> 
> ...


Almost exactly one year ago I was in these CIBC pooled funds going through the same concerns as you are right now. After a lot of research and just fighting with myself about taking the plunge I finally did. But let me tell you the bank won't let you go without a fight, I mean they will fill you FULL of FUD man! I even got a call from the bank manager telling me that I didn't know what I was doing yada yada yada. The pooled funds are a joke. They are just a really crappy investment product that underperforms.

I pulled out my money and started a couch potato strategy at TD Waterhouse. The worst thing was thinking about doing it, I mean there is a learning curve but it's nothing most motivated people can't handle. I did CP for about 6 months messing around with different ETFs until I got a mix that I was happy with, and then I decided that I wanted to put 25% of my portfolio into dividend growth stocks. What I did was to sell my Canadian index etf XIC and used the proceeds to buy Canadian dividend stocks. My thinking is that the TSX is just SO weighted to financials and energy stocks it makes a very unbalanced index. So I just picked my own mix of pipelines, telcos, utilities, rails, media, industrials, banks, consumer, reits and a couple others including a couple of oil stocks. 

Making the move was the best thing I ever did. In my first year I am up a little under 10%. With CIBC I was paying so much in fees it was killing me. They had no reits, no high yeild bonds, no US exposure. I have all of the above and the funny thing is that I have CIBC in my portfolio and since I bought it it is up 11% including dividends! Like they say if you want to make money don't buy the shitty investment products from the bank, buy the bank instead. Never a truer word ever spoken.

Just go for it, you'll be so happy that you did, you'll be like me and kicking yourself for not doing it sooner!


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Global Couch Potato is:

40% Canadian Bonds
20% Canadian Equity
20% US Equity
20% International Equity

Find CIBC managed fund that matches this asset allocation as closely as possible.

Compare performance over the same time frame. 5yrs vs 5yrs. Or, better, 10yrs vs. 10yrs. Start and end dates must be the same. They matter a lot.

That's the only way to meaningfully compare performance.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

*CIBC Managed Balanced Portfolio*
https://www.cibc.com/ca/mutual-funds/managed-portfolios/mngd-blnced-prtflio.html

Asset allocation is very close to Global Couch Potato. Roughly 40/20/20/20.

10 year performance as of December 31, 2012:

CIBC Managed Balanced: *3.1%*

Global Couch Potato: *5.87%*

Notes:
1. CIBC performance is after MER.
2. Potato number doesn't account for fees. Subtract whatever you feel is a fair MER for a bunch of low-cost ETFs or index funds.

q.e.d.


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## kyboch (Dec 23, 2011)

Here is a google Finance chart that I made comparing my portfolio which is currently made up of VUS 25%_VEF 10%_ZRE 10%_CHB 10%_XBB 20% the remaining 25% consists of 26 Canadian dividend stocks to the CIBC Managed Monthly Income Balanced fund which I found is a pretty good representation of the pooled funds at CIBC. I started on Feb. 21, 2012 with the ETFs including XIC, then around September I sold XIC and bought most of the stocks. A picture says a thousand words. Needless to say I'm very happy with the results and so glad to get that bloody bank off my back! None of these returns include dividends. The dividend stocks pay a weighted average of about 5%.










This one includes CM. Of course there is more volatility in the bank stock, but look at the difference in returns compared to their shitty mutual fund! Don't buy those bank mutual funds, buy the bank! Remember these charts do not include the dividends of which CM pays around 4.5%.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

ok, I think this thread is just what I needed. Thanks. 
I think I will use Dana's terminology and tell them i want to be a self-serve or order only account. 
I can't handle the pitch for credit cards and "insurance" nonsense at every turn. 

CIBC:


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