# What's your internal rate of return in 2010? (use XIRR() or IRR() in excel)



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

What's your internal rate of return in 2010?


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

slacker said:


> What's your internal rate of return in 2010?


I'll let you know in about a week.

Year's not over yet.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

26%


----------



## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

I keep a monthly track of risk-adjusted returns of my RRSP portfolio, the S&P 500 and the TSX.

RFR = 2.50%

RRSP: +16.7%, 4.0% monthly standard deviation = 3.55 Sharpe ratio

Best performer = HGU
Worst performer = RIM

S&P 500: +12.5%, 5.5% standard deviation = 1.81 Sharpe ratio

TSX: +13.9%, 3.5% standard deviation = 3.26 Sharpe ratio

I use the XIRR function to take into account contributions I make throughout the year.


----------



## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

I opened my trading account August 4, 2009. Using XIRR my return is 8.71% since that date.


----------



## brad (May 22, 2009)

Because I'm investing for the long term (retirement), I don't bother calculating annual or even decadal returns. They're meaningless for me: I might have a great year this year, or a great 10 years, but if the market crashes three years before I retire and I'm still mostly in equities, I'm toast.

It's not clear to me why it would be useful for me to know my annual rate of return. If it's high, it could lull me into a false sense of security. If it's low, it might tempt me to try chasing after performance.

Virtually all my equity investments are in index funds, a strategy that I'm comfortable sticking with. So if my rate of return is low, it simply means the market as a whole didn't do very well this year. Someone else with a highly managed portfolio of investments might have a better annual return this year, but a worse overall return after 25 years when they're getting ready to start needing the money. So I don't pay attention to year-to-year performance, although I will once I get closer to retirement.


----------



## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My best return was 30% on a power of sale I bought December 2009.I have a tenant there that pays enough rent to cover all costs and a pay a bit extra on the mortgage each month.I took a 5 year fixed on it for 3.69.
My IRR is only 7.2% YTD but like Brad I am playing the safe route as I have long time to go before I will use my investments.I have mutual funds which are split between Canadian Dividend ,Index Funds and Fixed Income.


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

brad said:


> Because I'm investing for the long term (retirement), I don't bother calculating annual or even decadal returns. They're meaningless for me: I might have a great year this year, or a great 10 years, but if the market crashes three years before I retire and I'm still mostly in equities, I'm toast.
> 
> It's not clear to me why it would be useful for me to know my annual rate of return. If it's high, it could lull me into a false sense of security. If it's low, it might tempt me to try chasing after performance.
> 
> Virtually all my equity investments are in index funds, a strategy that I'm comfortable sticking with. So if my rate of return is low, it simply means the market as a whole didn't do very well this year. Someone else with a highly managed portfolio of investments might have a better annual return this year, but a worse overall return after 25 years when they're getting ready to start needing the money. So I don't pay attention to year-to-year performance, although I will once I get closer to retirement.


It's useful so that when someone asks (like this thread) - you can answer. 

Seriously, you make a good point that if you are indexing - there might not be a lot of point in measuring performance.

For active investors - I've suggested in the past that comparing against indexes might help them determine if they are outperforming more passive strategies and if the extra gain (if it's there) is worth the extra time.


----------



## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

brad said:


> Virtually all my equity investments are in index funds, a strategy that I'm comfortable sticking with. So if my rate of return is low, it simply means the market as a whole didn't do very well this year. Someone else with a highly managed portfolio of investments might have a better annual return this year, but a worse overall return after 25 years when they're getting ready to start needing the money. So I don't pay attention to year-to-year performance, although I will once I get closer to retirement.


Likewise. I do compute returns for my benchmark portfolio for the blog and I can say that my rate of return will be +/- 0.50% of the benchmark returns. I haven't done the calculations to year end but YTD Q3 was 9.4%. I'm guessing the final numbers will be within a few percentage points of that.


----------



## jambo411 (Apr 6, 2009)

RRSP 21.31 and TFSA 22.6.


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

jambo411 said:


> RRSP 21.31 and TFSA 22.6.


Very well done!


----------



## plen (Nov 18, 2010)

1.54%!!

Took a hit with DSC charges for moving to e-Series funds from Transamerica plus 3/4 of the year I was paying an average 2.7% MER for those Transamerica funds.

On the bright side my internal rate of knowledge has skyrocketed and the far future will hopefully be a lot more lucrative


----------



## peterk (May 16, 2010)

31% including dividends. But that's using XIRR since I first started investing this June. Actual gains are 9.5%. Mostly thanks to a nice rebound of Manulife, and a lucky bottom pick of Yellow Pages back in August. Would have been even better but I got burned by that COS surprise the other week...


----------



## osc (Oct 17, 2009)

rrsp 13%, tfsa 15%, non-registered -45%.
overall -12%, been hit by the May mini-crash in my high-leverage trading account. The good news, I won't pay taxes on capital gains this year and probably the next one too, lol.


----------



## Soils4Peace (Mar 14, 2010)

Rsp 13.3%
tfsa 35.3%


----------



## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

One thing to keep in mind is that an annual IRR is only a snapshot and will vary greatly depending on where the portfolio was 12 months ago. This is why we have to be very careful when mutual fund companies state their results. I keep a running calculation of IRR on all my family's investments and over the last year it's varied anywhere from 4.83% to 32.65% depending on the given month that the calculation was done. Still have to get results for December but it's looking somewhere in the vicinity of 6-8% for the entire combined portfolios (TFSAs, RRSPs, RESPs, trading accounts, cash accounts).


----------



## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Just did my year end calculations and happily December was a more profitable month than I had guesstimated. Combined IRR from all portfolios (RRSPs, RESP, trading account, cash) was 13.81%.


----------



## Greyhound86 (Feb 21, 2010)

TFSA 90%

Non Registered Personal account 55%

Holding Company account 25%

Weighted average 34%

Energy, materials, utilities, pipelines, high yield bonds, financials make up allmost all of these holdings - I need to rebalance


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

slacker said:


> What's your internal rate of return in 2010?


That depends on the account, but 11.6% for my RRSP.


----------



## tendim (Nov 18, 2010)

*How do you do it?*

Okay, I'll bite; how is everyone using the IRR function to calculate their IRR?

According to this link at Microsoft.com, IRR is used when you have net cash flows. Are you all using your IRRs on the value of your portfolio at the end of each year? E.g.:


```
+---+------+------------------+
|   |  A   |        B         |
+---+------+------------------+
| 1 | Year | Market Value     |
+---+------+------------------+
| 2 | 2008 | $16,580.33       |
+---+------+------------------+
| 3 | 2009 | $17,552.33       |
+---+------+------------------+
| 4 | 2010 | $19,234.11       |
+---+------+------------------+
| 5 |      |                  |
+---+------+------------------+
| 6 | IRR  |=IRR(B2:B4)       |
+---+------+------------------+
```
If so, how are you accounting for cash deposits / withdrawals? I'm currently using a time-weighted calculation to calculate my returns which would likely return different results than a money-weighted (IRR) one.

Thanks!
-10d


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

9.51%

I use the Excel XIRR function. e.g. 
=XIRR(B1:B24,A1:A24,0.5)

(Dates in column A, deposits in column B. First row is Jan 1, 2010 and the opening balance. Last row is Dec 31, 2010 and closing value as a negative)


----------



## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

All accounts all dividends in 2010 XIRR = 14.0%

Cheers.


----------



## anon4040 (Jan 3, 2011)

Over 50%. I just copy TIC.


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I got 7.3% last year.

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/canadian-couch-potato-portfolio-returns/


----------



## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

Its always good , ( and hopefully fun), to take a quick look at your annual returns.

However, I am always surprised how many people will look at say, the TSX which did about 14.5% last year, and be upset that they only did, lets say, "only" 8 %.


You have to use the proper benchmarks and rate your returns by your asset allocation.

Personally I havent done my 2010 gains yet, but I'd say it will be between 10-11%, in a less risky and voliatile portfolio.

This includes bond and preferred share holdings, and cash holdings, equities, and diividend stock holdings I consider less risky, than buying all high tech growth , for instance.
(For me, this is pretty good considering that I have a sizeable $US account , which has basically gone no-where this year due to the strong CAN dollar......but I'm betting , and hoping, that will change in some year soon, and my rate of return in that year will rise nicely because of that.)


Theres always a place in a portfolio for high risk stuff, but with me, it represents a very small part.

How many of you would of put ALL your money into the TSX or the NASDAQ to get that 14.5% or 17.5% return??? Too risky for me.

I am always concerned about the protection of my assets as well as the return on my assets.

To you guys who beat the TSX...well done and congrats to you.

Good luck to all in 2011.


----------



## mrbizi (Dec 19, 2009)

got this number from Quicken's IRR report: 7.1%, this does not include dividends from the last quarter, I hope that will increase my return by .00005 at least 

Had an asset allocation of 80% equities (mostly US index funds) and 20% bonds.


----------



## cardhu (May 26, 2009)

Registered ........ 21.25%
Non-registered .. 33.63%


----------



## tendim (Nov 18, 2010)

I have a few accounts. I started with an IA and let them maintain my RRSP and Non-RRSP, but also have my Questrade account that I play with (and hold my TFSA). 

IA's RRSP: 20.48%
IA's Non-Registered: 12.33%
My Picks Margin Account: 38.82%
My Picks TFSA: 11.03%
My Picks US account: 7.33%

My personal accounts are a mix of index investing (XIC/XBB) and stock picking. The IA accounts are all individual companies.


----------



## briant (Jun 23, 2009)

A rough estimate using this online calculator (http://www.getsmarteraboutmoney.ca/...ent/accountstatement/calculator/default_b.asp)

30% Canadian index
30% US index
30% International index
10% Emerging markets index

Total return: 14.8%

I'm going to check it in excel tonight.


----------

