# "Free Speech" in America has carries a price on your head.



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

*"Free Speech" in America carries a price on your head.*

While the US and Pres. Obama may still think that free speech is allowed in America under the (? amendment to the their constitution),
film makers or cartoonists that mock the Islamic religion now, may go unpunished by their own gov'ts, but more than likely 
will have to live the rest of their lives in hiding with a "price on their heads". Especially in the US where just about anyone
can own a gun and most don't even have licences for them. 

This was the case a few years back with Salaman Rushdie, when he wrote Satanic Verses, which was taken in context as blasphemy 
against Islam and the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran issues a Fatwa and a price on his head. Fatwa, I think means a "bounty" on the blasphemer's head, dead or alive, preferably dead! 

It appears to be happening again..this time it's the amateur film maker of "Innocence of Muslims" where obvious and intentional
blasphemy was perpetrated by this film maker. Maybe he should have known better, ignorance is no excuse though
when it comes to insulting a sensitive religion...now he will pay the ultimate price (his head), unless he disappears
from society , and goes underground to escape the bounty hunters, who will be out in force, no doubt, to behead him. 

"In Pakistan, where fifteen people were killed in protests on Friday, a government minister has offered $100,000 to anyone who kills the maker of the short, amateurish video "The Innocence of Muslims". Calls have increased for a U.N. measure outlawing insults to Islam and blasphemy in general."

read the full story...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/pakistani-bounty-placed-anti-islam-filmmaker-013703560.html?_esi=1


This is so stupid (IMO), ..why do certain individuals do this to incite violence and stir up the Islamic world?:rolleyes2:
It's bad enough already as it is, no need add more "fuel" to the fires.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The guy is an idiot, but the problem is that people want him murdered for things he said. That is incompatible with western liberal democracy.


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Pat Condell explains it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GCXHPKhRCVg


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> The guy is an idiot, but the problem is that* people want him murdered for things he said*. That is incompatible with western liberal democracy.


Yes, it may be incompatible with Western democracies, but Western democracies are just a small part of the overall population of the world these days. and
the internet carries any kind of "journalistic or artistic freedom of expression" throughout the entire world now.
So whatever you say, or show in picture form having anything to do with the Muslim religion, one of the world's most sensitive religions, can be interpreted as blasphemy. In the Islamic Sharia code, blasphemy is right up there with adultery (or perceived adultery), and carries
a very serious penalty in their culture, generally death by some cruel means in full public display. as a warning to others of the faith. 
They don't care what country the citizen accused of blasphemy resides in. 

In this case, with all the foreign aid (from the US and other countries) , the Pakistani Minister (in power?), has the monetary means to issue 
a $100K (US) reward to anyone who kills the film maker.
In Western countries that would be considered premeditated murder and a contract killing, punishable under western laws.

Using US money (given to Pakistan by the US as foreign aid), to order a contract killing on a US citizen, is showing how much little respect the Islamic
nations have now for the US. Burning the American flag and chanting "Death to America", and Death to Israel" just fuels the hatred they have for
the US, no matter how much foreign aid they will receive from them now or in the future.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

While his (Pat Condell) opinions may be shared by many in the western world, most keep their opinions to themselves in private,
lets face it, the "problem" as the western world sees it, is here to stay and growing in intensity by the day. The violence will
continue against themselves, in middle eastern countries and to some degree in the western world where after 9/11 we are
more aware and on top of any further attempts. Yes, freedom of speech in the press and in the media is allowed here and
we cherish these rights, but some parts of the world, which are set back hundreds of years within their cultures drive a 
hard line...no tolerance for anything!


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

The obverse, (or reverse, depending upon your perspective), is the ongoing, and generally self-inflicted, demise of 'The West'; not only do 'we' tolerate the intolerable, 'we' also, through political correctness, et al, promulgate unwarranted 'sensitivity' towards just about everything, regardless of how ridiculous.

Not only do 'we' seem to perpetually apologize at the drop of the proverbial hat, 'we' appear to insidiously promote incremental downgrades to our stature..........one tiny example, I glanced at an article the other day wherein a group was advocating that children's games, (soccer, in this case, IIRC), be 'scoreless', i.e. no winners/no losers. Harmless, at first glance, until one recognizes that there ARE winners, and there ARE losers, in life, and that adopting this advocacy can only result in a future generation of kowtowing jellyfish, ripe for being ground under by those who don't subscribe to such philosophies.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> The obverse, (or reverse, depending upon your perspective), is the ongoing, and generally self-inflicted, demise of 'The West'; *not only do 'we' tolerate the intolerable,* 'we' also, through political correctness, et al, promulgate unwarranted 'sensitivity' towards just about everything, regardless of how ridiculous.


I could not agree more. 

*carverman:* you forgot to mention that coincident with the vicious murder/terror attack of Sept.11/2012, which the WH just recently dared to say that that's what it was [and nothing to do with the anti-Islam video], :rolleyes2: that a fanatic Iranian religious foundation has increased Salman Rushdie's 1989 bounty by $500,000, for a new total of $3.3 million. :rolleyes2: 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...tmare-bounty-upped-amid-mideast-protests.html

From the link you posted: "The protests in the Muslim world must be measured, and *the West should show a determined stance against Islamophobia"* - phobia, from the Greek phóbos = fear/morbid fear, now, how exactly is the West supposed to take a stance against such fear with everything that is going on? I am not afraid to say that I am afraid. 

And it's much more than mere 'protests' going on in the MENA region & beyond; it's murder & terror, so shouldn't that be 'measured' as well 'in the Muslim world'? I don't see that happening much. 

I have little doubt that WWIII is not far.


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> Islamophobia"[/b] - phobia, from the Greek phóbos = fear/morbid fear


I believe the most common current definition of phobia is _irrational_ fear, and I see nothing 'irrational' about it.......perhaps it should be redesignated as 'Islamaversion'.


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

One can attach as many adjectives [and there is no shortage of them], to the word fear, but that's just what it is; the level of it is not really the point IMHO, unless you believe in being little afraid [of the topic at hand or any other for that matter], say extremism.

Islamophobia is not the same as anti-Islam, but many incorrectly quote the former when they mean the latter.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> *carverman:* you forgot to mention that coincident with the vicious murder/terror attack of Sept.11/2012, which the WH just recently dared to say that that's what it was [and nothing to do with the anti-Islam video], :rolleyes2: that a fanatic Iranian religious foundation has increased Salman Rushdie's 1989 bounty by $500,000, for a new total of $3.3 million. :rolleyes2:


Not surprised. They have "oil money" and will use that against the west where ever they can to fund extremists to do their bidding. 
For a Islamic extremist, even $100,000 is LARGE a fortune that they would not other wise ever see in their life, never mind 3.3 million
US bounty on Rushdie's head now. Perhaps the film maker and cartoonist will also have the bounty increased on their heads,
as more extremist ME gov'ts add to it.

Given that all they (the executioner) have to do in most cases is don a suicide bomb vest and walk into a crowd of people, blow themselves to smithereens, taking other innocents with them..it defies the purpose of collecting the bounty..
unless they can find him, and take him out in a more traditional Islamic way..such as a beheading. 

Going after someone who has blasphemed their religion with a sustantial price on their head, it will happen sooner or later.
Rushdie is still in hiding to this day because the Fatwa that Khomeni put on his head was never lifted.Khomeni is long gone,
and no one else dares to lift it. They will continue to add to it until Rushdie is discovered in hiding somewhere and taken out.

(The US managed to finally take out Bin Laden a few years later,who thought he had a secret hiding place and was safe.
The extremists will do likewise...eventually take out their targets, unless the target is placed in complete impenetrable isolation...and what kind of life is that to live?

<from the link you provided>
_*The first suspects in this crime are the Zionists and the U.S. government*,” said Khamenei in a statement. “If they had not supported the former links of this filthy chain, meaning Salman Rushdie, the Danish cartoonist, and the American priests who set the Quran on fire, and i*f they had not ordered dozens of anti-Islam films from companies related to Zionist investors*, today things would not have come to this huge and unforgivable sin.”_ <end>

So what's Iran's position on all this....obviously they have "bone to pick" with the American Jewish industrialists and investors, 
and Israel itself, which is strongly supported by the US Gov't which is composed of American Jewish Industrialists and investors.
Why did the 9/11 terrorists pick the twin towers at the World trade center..because those twin towers represented the
epitome of the American Jewish wealth..and had to be taken down by Al-Queda.



> And it's much more than mere 'protests' going on in the MENA region & beyond; it's murder & terror, so shouldn't that be 'measured' as well 'in the Muslim world'? I don't see that happening much.
> I have little doubt that WWIII is not far.


It's probably all part of their religion..if they are fighting a Jihad (Holy War) against the West and Israel, then it really doesn't
matter to them how many people get killed in the act of fighting this war..innocent Muslims and the "western infidels"..
it's all the same to them in their narrow minded (nothing to lose but their life, which is meanling less and meant for the
greater good of Islam) way of thinking. Pretty much most of them are just "soldiers" recruited by the extremist kingpins.
It doesn't take much brainwashing to get them to obey whatever nasty deeds they are required to do.

WWIII?...Bush has already called it "THE war on terror", and because Al-Queda is global, the US can't declare war formally on insurgents,
like they can against a country like Germany or Japan, but it's still a war, even if it's not official, and will continue for years to come.
The US has, and will continue, to pay a heavy toll for their involvement in the ME. but at this point they have no choice but to protect their foreign interests and that will set their foreign policy in precarious position. 

They have the upper hand in high tech weapons and that will keep the extremists away from their shores, but they won't be able to control what goes on in the ME Islamic countries from now on.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Unfortunately, some people hide behind "freedom of speech" rights to incite hatred or violence.

And then they expect the law to protect them from consequences of their actions.

The people who posted the video shouldn't be afforded "protection" by the state for actions that put them in jeopardy. 

If you want to play the fool..............suffer the consequences.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Middle East has their own culture.

We may not like it........or approve of it.......or condone it..........but it isn't for us to decide.

By the same token, anyone who wants to live in Canada, should abide by our rules and culture.

No exceptions.........end of story.

Don't like it..........don't come.


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

sags said:


> Unfortunately, some people hide behind "freedom of speech" rights to incite hatred or violence.
> 
> And then they expect the law to protect them from consequences of their actions.
> 
> ...


Or if you go to see _Batman_ movies...in Aurora, CO?


----------



## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

sags said:


> Unfortunately, some people hide behind "freedom of speech" rights to incite hatred or violence.
> 
> And then they expect the law to protect them from consequences of their actions.
> 
> ...


How far would you take this? No protection for Salman Rushdie when an Ayatolla puts a price on his head? There are several prominent Muslim women who've received death threats for criticizing some aspects of their religion. No protection for them either?


----------



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

In countries with terrible leaders and high youth unemployment these extreme overreactions are a great tools for these awful leaders. All they need to do is have someone draw some stupid cartoon or something and distract these unemployed youth into using up their energy smashing things burning flags and screaming at someone else instead of them.


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

dogcom said:


> In countries with terrible leaders and high youth unemployment these extreme overreactions are a great tools for these awful leaders. All they need to do is have someone draw some stupid cartoon or something and distract these unemployed youth into using up their energy smashing things burning flags and screaming at someone else instead of them.


Ah, like Occupy Wall Street. :encouragement:


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> There are several *prominent Muslim women* who've received death threats for criticizing some aspects of their religion. No protection for them either?


Prominent and very courageous I might add for it's easier to stay silent than to speak the truth, but when does silence solve anything?

And not only Muslim women, but also Muslim men and non-Muslims as well, have been threatened for trying to help and make a difference in the lives of millions, for example the late Theo van Gogh, who was murdered by a fanatic for making the film 'Submission' in association with Ms. Hirsi Ali, who lives under police protection in Denmark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> Ah, like Occupy Wall Street. :encouragement:


How many of them, men and women, blew themselves up?

Last week, a woman blew herself up in Afghanistan as payback for the anti-Islam film, killing 12, mostly foreigners. Not only are women being recruited as suicide bombers, but also children. I also noticed many of the demonstrators of the last 2 weeks were women.


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> And not only Muslim women, but also Muslim men and non-Muslims as well, have been threatened


I recall listening to Lowell Green when we lived in Ottawa.......a Muslim woman caller mentioned that a local Imam had received a number of threats due to his 'moderate' stance......it doesn't just happen "elsewhere".


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> How many of them, men and women, blew themselves up?


The OWS are just there for the aforementioned "smashing things burning flags and screaming". ;-)



Toronto.gal said:


> Last week, a woman blew herself up in Afghanistan as payback for the anti-Islam film, killing 12, mostly foreigners. Not only are women being recruited as suicide bombers, but also children. I also noticed many of the demonstrators of the last 2 weeks were women.


Shades of the Chechen "Black Widows".


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> it doesn't just happen "elsewhere".


Of course not.

A prominent Canadian, Ms. Irshad Manji, has also received death threats for having the 'moral courage, the willingness to speak up when everyone else wants to shut you up'. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irshad_Manji

I read her book 'The Trouble with Islam' some years ago.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Trouble-Islam-Muslims-Reform/dp/0312326998


----------



## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Toronto.gal said:


> I read her book 'The Trouble with Islam' some years ago.
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Trouble-Islam-Muslims-Reform/dp/0312326998


As did I...also Hirsi Ali's books....(I believe she now lives in the U.S. with husband Niall Ferguson)


----------



## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> Shades of the Chechen "Black Widows".


The # of female suicide bombers there is unbelievable. 

'Reports say that since 2000, Black Widows have been responsible for at least half the suicide attacks in Russia.

Since the Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers pioneered female suicide squads in the 1980s, Palestinian, Lebanese and Kurdish women, as well as Chechens, have turned themselves into human bombs.' 

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/789522--why-chechnya-s-black-widows-are-driven-to-kill

In Afghanistan & other places, the # is very low, but growing.


----------

