# Energy costs..novel ways to save



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

With energy costs steadily on the rise and taking a BIG chunk out of the
household budget...how are forum users coping with the every increasing
costs?

These are the key areas that take a big bite out of your after tax dollars..
what are you doing to try and save as much as you can without spending
even more to save..

- Home heating (besides buying a new $3,000 furnace)
(besides filter change every month or a setback thermostat)


- Gasoline (Thanks to yet another "middle east war " indirectly related
to oil..we are faced with rising costs almost every week..$1.26 a litre..
that $5 a US gallon..and the way it's going..that soon could rise to
$1.50 a litre by end of the year.

So... How many out there still do the basic service on their vehicle to save even more..(besides wash and wax it yourself) ....basic services such as

-oil and filter changes
- changing your belts/hoses
- changing sparkplugs..etc


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

No, I take the car to the shop to do stuff like that. I have neither the tools, the clothes or the proper facilities to do my own oil changes. But the stuff all still has to be done. Proper car maintenance is critical to safe operation.

We've already had a VERY lengthy thread (titled "energy usage") about electricity consumption. Let's not rehash it here all over again. Everything that needed to be said about that, has been said and argued to death. That thread had hundreds of posts!

Again, we need fuel to power our cars and to heat our homes. The oil companies are very reluctant to loosen their grip on us, but even if you shift to some other fuel there will always be problems, just different ones.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> We've already had a VERY lengthy thread (titled "energy usage") about electricity consumption. Let's not rehash it here all over again. Everything that needed to be said about that, has been said and argued to death. That thread had hundreds of posts!


Fair enough..lets not discuss that subject here then. 



> Again, we need fuel to power our cars and to heat our homes. The oil companies are very reluctant to loosen their grip on us, but even if you shift to some other fuel there will always be problems, just different ones.


Ok, lets examine alternate fuel sources and the cost of conversion.
I've seen vehicles run on propane and nat gas..but these fuels are rising
in cost as well..maybe not as much as oil/gasoline but seem to follow
gasoline based on demand.

So far there isn't that much demand for propane or nat gas powered vehicles,
but I'm sure that if the trend started towards that, additional road taxes
would be heaped onto the cost of each litre of liquid nat gas or propane.
The biggest drawback is the storage of these fuels and the safety concerns
in an accident, although gasoline isn't that safe in an accident in any case.

What about these fuel saving devices that work with your engine management
computer and "lean out" the fuel to air ratio depending on how you are driving? 

My truck designed in the 70s and manufactured with the same engine until
2000 literally drinks gas in the city...5km per liter..but it's reliable and
a very good truck for hauling stuff around and I hate to get rid of it..
so I'm looking for a fuel saver of some sort, because now with Mr. McGinty's
HST and the oil barons raising the price per bbl of oil..that 84 litre tank is
getting very expensive to fill....$105!
Now I can't afford a "gas sipper" these days for obvious reasons, but\
I have to do something if the price per litre keeps rising to approach
European prices.

Here' one that I considered last year for my gas guzzler.almost
bit the bullet and got it...
http://www.gfchips.com/dodgedakota.aspx

and is this one a scam? or is there something to it? 
http://engineionizer.com/


----------



## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

carverman said:


> So... How many out there still do the basic service on their vehicle to save even more..(besides wash and wax it yourself) ....basic services such as
> 
> -oil and filter changes
> - changing your belts/hoses
> - changing sparkplugs..etc


I do this. In addition to saving, it is fun AND most importantly, I don't trust your neighborhood oil change guy. You could end up with re-used oil filters, you definitely get a crappy paper/cardboard filter, possibly re-used engine oil, and worst of all, stripped drain bolt threads!

It ain't tough, doesn't require any special tools, nor much space.


----------



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

The $3000 furnace really did save me money (mostly from lower electric bill). That and government helped pay a big chunk of it. (not withstanding that money was mine to begin with, but let's not start an anti-tax thread here...)


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

slacker said:


> The $3000 furnace really did save me money (mostly from lower electric bill). That and government helped pay a big chunk of it. (not withstanding that money was mine to begin with, but let's not start an anti-tax thread here...)


Interesting. I have a mid efficiency gas furnace (1994), so it's well over 15 years old ..but it's very reliable and I'm not about to replace it with a $3000 new furnace. I don't have a furnace emergency plan for it as I don't believe in
wasting $100 or more a year on a plan that I would rarely, if ever use (frugal here), and the parts for it are readily available at heating-furnace parts place, if I ever need them and I would replace them myself. 

Aabout the only issue I have is the 1/2 horsepower fan motor..(one hp = 740watts), and that does consume a fair amount of electricity when it 's running.

Ok, now I don't want to get back into an electricity usage thread again, but being direct drive motor, I'm not sure if there are any ways to make it more efficient on that front.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sampson said:


> I do this. In addition to saving, it is fun AND most importantly, I don't trust your neighborhood oil change guy. You could end up with re-used oil filters, you definitely get a crappy paper/cardboard filter, possibly re-used engine oil, and worst of all, stripped drain bolt threads!
> 
> It ain't tough, doesn't require any special tools, nor much space.


I change my own oil and filter, air filter, belt, spark plugs and anything else I can repair myself. I used to do my own brake pads/rotors, but with my bad knees, I have a trusted garage do those for me..one that I can trust the mechanic to do the right work and the parts are first grade... Made that mistaken once on brake parts..never do that again!

Now here is the thing about oil filters..you can reuse the filter..but ony once!
I generally take mine off and dump out the excess oil and then keep the filter upside down for a few months on newspaper (now here is one good use for newspaper), and put it back on in 6 months. You can do this with Fram filters or any better quality filter.

And I like to tighten up the filter by hand, as well as ensure the drainplug is on correctly. Take the used oil back to CTYC
and I don't get charged for used oil disposal or any ECO tax by the Ont gov't. 

I also apply some grease to the tie rod ends and for those "life time" lubricated ball joints, that fall apart eventually, and cause the wheel suspension to collapse on you.. I get a grease gun needle from CTC, and inject my own grease into the rubber ball joint boots...frugality here..no major expense replacing suspension parts...and it works for me.. and no squeaky ball joints!


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

carverman said:


> I also apply some grease to the tie rod ends and for those "life time" lubricated ball joints, that fall apart eventually, and cause the wheel suspension to collapse on you.. I get a grease gun needle from CTC, and inject my own grease into the rubber ball joint boots...frugality here..no major expense replacing suspension parts...and it works for me.. and no squeaky ball joints!


LOL I've done that in a past life. Now I pay the $ and get it fixed. I guess that gives me a failing grade in the frugality dept of car stuff.


----------



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

I drive over 70 km a day. I find that by reducing my highway speeds from 120kph to 100kph (where it's safe to do so, yup, it's usually safer to go with the traffic flow), I lower my fuel consumption from about 8.5L/100km to 8.0L/100km. This saves about $300 / year. Not much, but it's still about 5 tanks of gas. My fellow motorists may resent me, and I'm sorry. I try to stay on the right hand lane whenever it's safe to do so.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think it's fair game to talk about saving electricity, without having to get into politics and electricity policy.

I like the power bars with remote switches. They are a great way to cut down on the phantom power your AV setup uses.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> LOL I've done that in a past life. Now I pay the $ and get it fixed. *I guess that gives me a failing grade in the frugality dept of car stuff.
> *


*

Well, I'm not sure if that is considered a failing grade..I mean, how many car owners would actually do that..or think of that. I just hate anything that is considered or called "lubricated for life", because they want you to forget about it,
until it's too late, then you are into hundreds of dollars to replace worn out suspension parts...again the "big sucking sound!"

Years ago, you could even repack wheel bearings..now they are all throw away at $400 or so a pop! Just a little bit of grease makes the world (wheels)] go round..I hate the car factories and dealers for allowing that to happen..because you can't practice frugality when you are held over a barrel by the shops ....and Mr. McGinty/mr Harper too.

All they had to do is install a couple of zerk grease fittings on the upper and lower ball joints..and if greased at regular oil change intervals..they would truly last the lifetime of the vehicle.

I even pop off the dust seals on ball bearings and repack them with chasssis grease. Not going to pay hundreds for some
part which only needs a new bearing..but oh..you just can't buy the bearing anymore..you have to buy the entire and expensive
part.*


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

slacker said:


> I drive over 70 km a day. I find that by reducing my highway speeds from 120kph to 100kph (where it's safe to do so, yup, it's usually safer to go with the traffic flow), I lower my fuel consumption from about 8.5L/100km to 8.0L/100km. This saves about $300 / year. Not much, but it's still about 5 tanks of gas. My fellow motorists may resent me, and I'm sorry. I try to stay on the right hand lane whenever it's safe to do so.


Good for you! ..and my truck (at least in summer months) will drink up those 5 tanks of gas very quickly,
going back and forth to the trailer park. But at least the highway mileage is slightly
better..8km per liter because of overdrive on the automatic transmission.

So what does that work out in 100k,/liter?...12.5 litres per 100km?
Ah ! good old Detroit dinosaur technology...all they did was add a ECU and sequential port fuel injection and some oxygen sensors....gotta get that fuel saving chip?....what do you think? 

I love the Dodge Bros..but they designed these things to American fuel
consumption standards...and because of the auto free trade, we get them
over here..but unlike Pres Obama..Mr. Harper and Mr mcginty add a 25% +
13% fuel surcharge to that litre of gas..if they tried that in the US..they
would have the 2nd American "civil" war..because nobody there would
tolerate $5 a gal going (probably) to $6 a gallon.

Now water we have lots of..someone should design an engine to run on
water..steam or whatever..heck we had steam powered cars many many
years ago..remember the Stanley Steamer? You just throw on a few sticks
of wood and drive right past all those gas stations and thumb your nose
at "Big Oil" and their gouging practices!


----------



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

I plan to downsize my car from my Mazda 3 (2.3L) to a Honda Fit in the near future. Social stigma of driving a subcompact aside, it should lower my fuel consumption to about 6.5L/100km. The hybrids unfortunately still don't make sense economy wise, and there are no cheap diesel cars available on the market.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

What about a diesel? The Fit isn't much car for the money.


----------



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Diesel cars are extremely fuel efficient, close to hybrid territory, but still drive like a real car (for those who cares about that sort of thing).

Yes, the Fit is not cheap for a subcompact, but drives like a real car (again, for those who cares about that sort of thing)


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

slacker said:


> I plan to downsize my car from my Mazda 3 (2.3L) to a Honda Fit in the near future. Social stigma of driving a subcompact aside, it should lower my fuel consumption to about 6.5L/100km. The hybrids unfortunately still don't make sense economy wise, *and there are no cheap diesel cars available on the market.*


Well there is..sort of..the Mercedes-Benz Smart Car. They are a very fuel
efficient 3 cylinder diesel. 
http://www.smart.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-us-content-Site/en_EN/-/USD/Smart_CC-Line
.and it even has a sun roof and coin holder..so you can save all those quarters
that you are not spending on fuel and McGinty's HST!

and the fuel consumption is 40mpg (350 miles/563km on a 7.5 gal /28 litre fillup)
what does that work out in terms of litres/100km...4.8 l/100km
http://hubpages.com/hub/Smart-Car-Gas-Mileage


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Diesel Golf MSRP is ~25k, A Fit you might actually want to buy starts around ~16k, but you'd probably want more like $18k. I guess you can buy a lot of gas for $7-9k. Seems like the fuel savings over a Mazda 3 are marginal.


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Toyota Yaris is also _really good _on gas. I did have a TDI Jetta. It was amazing on fuel consumption. 50 MPG no problems. 1000KM per tank. Expensive car though. Like andrew said, the extra money you pay could pay for a lot of gas.


----------



## Potato (Apr 3, 2009)

slacker said:


> The hybrids unfortunately still don't make sense economy wise


I _KNOW_! Gas would have go to up to like a buck a litre before them newfangled thingamabobs make any sense, and that's not happening any time soon!! 

That said, the math is on an apples-to-apples basis (e.g., Matrix/Mazda 3 sport vs Prius), but if you just need the lowest cost people mover and don't care about size/space/features, then yeah, getting a subcompact saves a lot.

If you've got a lot of highway miles on your commute there aren't a whole lot of other hypermiling tricks to use. Grill-blocking in the winter, and higher tire pressure of course... you can try to lower weight as much as possible, even going so far as to ditch the spare.

To drive the limit and deflect aggro, I like to find a nice, slow truck to follow. Not too close (no need to attempt to draft as well), but being "stuck" behind a truck seems to make people suddenly more accepting of only doing the limit.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Potato said:


> I _KNOW_! Gas would have go to up to like a buck a litre before them newfangled thingamabobs make any sense, and that's not happening any time soon!!


Boy are you out of touch! ..it's already $1.26 a litre here, and expected to go much higher with what is happening in 
the middle-east (and Libya).



> you can try to lower weight as much as possible, even going so far as to ditch the spare.


now that is a real smart way of saving gas //NOT! Any piece of junk on the highway ( or roofing nails falling off the dump truck)
, and all of a sudden you have a dilema..instead of just pulling out the spare, jacking it up, and getting back on your way..you now have to call "CAA" to get it towed to the nearest garage. $150!..
or would you just drive it on the flat at slow speeds and run that $150 tire and $300 rim into the pavement? 



> To drive the limit and deflect aggro, I like to find a nice, slow truck to follow. Not too close (no need to attempt to draft as well), but being "stuck" behind a truck seems to make people suddenly more accepting of only doing the limit.


Not sure how much you would save being in the vortex/slip stream of a SEMI.. most of that vortex would just go above your car and you aren't going to really experience gas saving .....compared to annoying the semi driver and NOT seeing what is ahead..you're just following a moving billboard..and BLIND!


----------



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

The buck a litre comment was sarcasm. 
Also, he already stated he wouln't be following too close to the truck. 

It's not so much the slip stream that increases efficency, it's the buffetting the wind, you can eliminate a headwind and basically ride in the "calm spot" behind the truck, Even at 100 feet you can see an impovement of about 10 percent.

Back to saving money at home, If you have a boiler and hot water heat, you buy a piece of reflective bubble wrap, put it behind the rad against the wall and see a 10% increase in efficency


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

crazyjackcsa said:


> The buck a litre comment was sarcasm.
> Also, he already stated he wouln't be following too close to the truck.
> 
> It's not so much the slip stream that increases efficency, it's the buffetting the wind, you can eliminate a headwind and basically ride in the "calm spot" behind the truck, Even at 100 feet you can see an impovement of about 10 percent.


yES, but suppose the trucker gets pis*sed and radios the cops...cop car pulls up behind him and pulls him over for following too close. Fine + points..and if the trucker is especially nasty and slams on the air brakes..
and he's not paying attention..rear ender! Any fuel saved isn't going to help much there. 



> Back to saving money at home, If you have a boiler and hot water heat, you buy a piece of reflective bubble wrap, put it behind the rad against the wall and see a 10% increase in efficency


Well that's what I'm doing this year. Installing a reflective foil or windshield sun shade in the kitchen window to help
keep the kitchen cooler on those very hot days..when I'm away at the trailer camp for the summer.

I also installed a kitchen ceiling fan to help move the hot air away from the fridge. I'll keep it on low, since the energy consumption
is just a few watts compared to 450 watts for the new fridge..the less it runs, the lower my hydro bill. 
Last summer my old energy hog fridge cost me plenty over the summer months because I had not done that..
and all I had was a couple of CFL lights on 24/7..this year even these will be on a timer.


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

andrewf said:


> I think it's fair game to talk about saving electricity, without having to get into politics and electricity policy.
> 
> I like the power bars with remote switches. They are a great way to cut down on the phantom power your AV setup uses.


I also have the power bar for my TV, PVR and Playstation in the basement.

I would like to have the same thing for the home office upstairs (PC, monitor, and printer). I am planning to program the bar to turn off everything before I go sleep say 11 p.m. and turn on everything before I get home from work say 5 p.m.

My only concern is whether it's a good idea to have a hard shutdown for the PC. Perhaps I can *pre-program* the PC to shut down gracefully prior to the bar turning off. I am sure there is a program out there to do that, if it's not already included in Windows 7 (the O/S I am running on the PC).


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Is your power bar on a timer? Power saver settings can shut your system down at a given time or after a period of inactivity.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

canabiz said:


> My only concern is whether it's a good idea to have *a hard shutdown for the PC*. Perhaps I can *pre-program* the PC to shut down gracefully prior to the bar turning off. I am sure there is a program out there to do that, if it's not already included in Windows 7 (the O/S I am running on the PC).


I shut mine down every night and sometimes in the day when I'm not using it for 4 years now..still boots up reliably each time. However, unless there is a problem with Windows XP, I generally don't do a hard shutdown as there are programs running that need an orderly shutdown...and that is best done from the "START:" window and "power options"...you can program in mins or
hours when you want to turn off the monitor, turn off hard disks, and enter system standby..1 to 5 hr.

Other than some possible s/w snafu because of an unexpected shutdown, the hardware probably doesn't care, because the power supply has a slow decay on the filter caps, and thats enough normally to shut down the hardware reliably.
Besides..if you have a hydro loss.. it is the same as manually flipping the power bar breaker.


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm a shameful waster with heat in our house, I like it at 21 or sometimes 22 in the winter.... and our basement lights are in transition (no switch, direct to the breaker) so we tend to leave them on which is a waste. I dry most of my clothes on the line - outside in the summer, inside in the winter which helps somewhat. It's a goal of mine once we move and I become a SAHM to help my family to become more energy-efficient (including myself of course).

Oh yeah, since gasoline is a form of energy, we use very little during the year - I walk to work, my husband bikes to work (nearly year round and we live in Winnipeg), and we tend to shop at the small stores that are walking distance to our home, stocking up at Costco (often driving, but sometimes cycling and taking the bike trailer with us to stock up) once every month or two.


----------



## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

I found this guide that shows you how to set up the automatic shutdown for different Windows flavours.

http://www.thespinningdonut.com/how-to-automatically-shut-down-your-windows-7-computer/

This will allow your PC to shut down gracefully before the power bar turns off. I will give it a go tonight.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> I'm a shameful waster with heat in our house, I like it at 21 or sometimes 22 in the winter.... and our basement lights are in transition (no switch, direct to the breaker) so we tend to leave them on which is a waste. I dry most of my clothes on the line - outside in the summer, inside in the winter which helps somewhat. It's a goal of mine once we move and I become a SAHM to help my family to become more energy-efficient (including myself of course).


Ok, lets analyze your "wasteful" habits and see where that puts you on the "Frugality Scale"....

and we need to re-iterate here.."if you are not part of the solution... then you are part of the problem!"

HABIT------------- FRUGALITY SCALE (1= SHAMEFUL WASTER! :-( 10= Very Green )

Heat at 21 to 22.: (5), you obviously need more heat in your lifestyle
Solution: turn down 1 degree per day and wear sweaters or fleece pullovers

Basement lights on all the time" (1). waste not, want not!
Solution: get hubby to install light switch and turn on only as required ..tsk! tsk! (there's hope yet!) 

Dry clothes on line (inside or outside) 10! You are as green as green can be..except for the Irish maybe..which are at 11...




> Oh yeah, since gasoline is a form of energy, we use very little during the year - I walk to work, my husband bikes to work (nearly year round and we live in Winnipeg), and we tend to shop at the small stores that are walking distance to our home, stocking up at Costco (often driving, but sometimes cycling and taking the bike trailer with us to stock up) once every month or two.


walk to work: (10) no carbon or greenhouse gas emissions..good for the heart etc 

Husband bikes to work: (10 )again, no carbon or greenhouse gases

Shop at small stores close to home: (10) this is the way it should be..
support yer local merchants and thumb yer nose at the oil barons and
gov't taxes upon taxes on fuel

Stocking up at Costco; driving sometimes but taking bike and bike trailer:
(9) Sorrry but I only gave you nine on this one, because you have to drive sometimes
to get the big grocery orders.

Finally living in Winnepeg.. and surviving those brutal winters!: 10 Bonus points!!!

So lets see, what's your score.. 10 + 10 + 10 + 9 and 5 for the room temp..
and unfortunately a (1 )for wasting power, our precious resources..now this IS something you can do something about..

but wait!..there's the bonus points that need to be added in.. so that more than makes up
for your little wasteful habit...GOOD SCORE!...YOU ARE A 10!...and that is not just in looks either!


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah scores. I didn't realize this was a contest with carverman being the sole judge!


----------



## Sustainable PF (Nov 5, 2010)

We write a daily tip (haven't updated this list for about 2 weeks) 

http://sustainablepersonalfinance/365-sustainability-tips

So far we've covered a few general topics, bathrooms and kitchens. Some of the more popular have been shower with a partner, shower bucket, and frugal trader highlighted 3 ways to air seal your home on his website.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> Yeah scores. I didn't realize this was a contest with carverman being the sole judge!


But!! This IS my thread. I started it all..and I appointed myself judge
and jury...any problems with that? ;-) (wink!)

Ok..getting back to reality and my gas guzzling truck..which I love to hold onto longer... but I keep
seeing the dollar signs spinning faster than the litres going in.

I have decided to go ahead and buy the perfomance/fuel saver chip to put in the engine management computer..it is claimed to be *more frugal *with gas consumption than what the Dodge Bros originally installed..
and I don't have to worry about voiding the warranty..the truck is 13 years old!

Gas is going up every week..probably to $1.50 at some point this year..thats gonna hurt my bottom line, and I don't drive
much anymore..around 4,000km a year..and most of that is to the trailer part and back once a week.


----------

