# Brown shoes



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

So this is a question that has been bugging me for some time now.

My first part-time job while still in high school was in an upmarket menswear store. I was fortunate in that through that job, I learned a lot about men's fashion etc. One of the things I was taught, was which colour belts and shoes go with which colour suits. Now I know there is no law about such things but there is normal accepted practices if you will, which are usually applied to such things. Just like which hand you use to hold a fork (left) and knife (right).

Over the last few years though I have seen increasing numbers of men who you would expect get good advice on what they wear (like our Prime Minister for example probably should) or who would have learned when growing up, what to wear and not wear, are wearing brown shoes with an inappropriate suit colour.

https://theidleman.com/manual/advice/what-colour-shoes-to-wear-with-your-suit/

So my question is, where is this coming from? If I see it enough on TV for it to register in my mind, obviously it is not just one or two guys who don't know what shoes to wear, it's too common for that, it's a trend.

I may be more sensitive to this than most given my background but that doesn't matter. Somehow these guys have gotten the message that it is OK to pick the wrong shoes. Any thoughts?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Dark grey suit, light tan shoes. Wrong.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/prime-minister-trudeau-to-travel-to-india-in-february-1.3769791

Suit still too dark for tan shoes. It needs to be a light grey for brown to work.

https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/05/2...rudeau-meets-emmanuel-macron-president-france

By the way, this is not a politically motivated, 'bash the Liberals and Trudeau' post. Rob Ford in Ontario is just as bad, I just couldn't find any photos of him to link, but I've seen him doing the same thing. I see all kinds of 'newsworthy' men doing so.

For anyone who wants my semi-pro advice on suits and shoes, it's simple. You only ever buy black, grey and navy suits and you only ever wear black shoes and belts with all of them. You can't go wrong at all that way. And you never wear a brown or green suit for one simple reason. Some people don't like those colours and so it has a negative perception when they see a man wearing one. Black, grey and navy are all neutral colours and so they offend no one.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Sags has been there done that: https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/96257-No-shoes-like-brown-shoes?highlight=brown+shoes


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I had a closet full of blue suits when I retired. All slightly different, but all dark blue. Plus black dress shoes- Dacks and Edmonds. All gone now to people who could use them.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Uh fashions and styles change. Trousers used to be baggier and broke over the shoe, then you had to have pleats. Now pleats are out trousers are slimmer and you show your socks. Socks by the way which you used to match to your suit but now are supposed to be unique, along with neon shoelaces.
Black dress shoes are now considered dated. In fact new style for young guys is to wear boots not shoes. Usually some shade of tan, bison, oxblood.
The shoes and belts you are complaining about are actually coming back into style again. The upper class in England, USA wore these not all that long ago.
A proper suit trouser was waisted about 4 inches or so higher than today. Close to your belly button rather than lower on the hips.
Jackets had to be buttoned up unless you were sitting down. You couldn't take your jacket off if there were women in the office
Get with the times
On the other hand I haven't paid any attn to ford or Trudeau. Maybe Trudeau thinks he is a dashing fashion plate on the leading edge like he thinks his father was.
Or maybe he really is a fashion faux pas. I will leave that to the forum to opine on.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

and, when did it become fashionable for men to wear tight-fitting suits, that make everyone look like PeeWee Herman?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Sags has been there done that: https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/96257-No-shoes-like-brown-shoes?highlight=brown+shoes


Well, it's good to know at least one other person has noticed. I guess it's not just me after all. I wasn't around here in 2016 OnlyMyOpinion, so I obviously was not aware Sags had raised the issue.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

twa2w said:


> Uh fashions and styles change. Trousers used to be baggier and broke over the shoe, then you had to have pleats. Now pleats are out trousers are slimmer and you show your socks. Socks by the way which you used to match to your suit but now are supposed to be unique, along with neon shoelaces.
> Black dress shoes are now considered dated. In fact new style for young guys is to wear boots not shoes. Usually some shade of tan, bison, oxblood.
> The shoes and belts you are complaining about are actually coming back into style again. The upper class in England, USA wore these not all that long ago.
> A proper suit trouser was waisted about 4 inches or so higher than today. Close to your belly button rather than lower on the hips.
> ...


All fine other than the comment, 'get with the times' twa2w. Fashions do indeed change but colours do not. I have no problem with fashions changing, I sometimes wear blue jeans with a corduroy sports jacket (navy blue, nearly black). Something that would have been a serious faux pas 30 years ago. But the shoes and belt still have to be black to look right to me. Lapel widths can change, cuffs or no cuffs on pants can come and go, boots can be in rather than shoes, socks or not, pleats, etc. etc. But colours that go together remain the same. 

As it says in the following article on shoes twa2w, "Footwear, like everything else in menswear, has grown less rigid recently – these days you can wear Oxfords with jeans and trainers with a suit. But the key to pulling either off is in colour-matching; get the shade wrong and you can look like a car salesman on a night out". 
https://www.fashionbeans.com/article/best-shoe-colour-combinations-men/

It has nothing to do with 'getting with the times'.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> and, when did it become fashionable for men to wear tight-fitting suits, that make everyone look like PeeWee Herman?


 ... January 1st, 2000. The mini-length of the pants/trousers and no socks phenomenon ... lololololololol


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

You know what they say in London....'never wear brown in town'


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

best to wear colors not based on colors that are in trend instead based on colors that compliment your coloring.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Fashions come and go, and it is inevitable that not everyone will like them. 

Can anyone explain to me why men in suits are constantly fiddling with their jacket buttons, closing them when standing up and opening them when sitting down?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> My first part-time job while still in high school was in an upmarket menswear store. I was fortunate in that through that job, I learned a lot about men's fashion etc.


Times change


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

nice pic.....humble_pie, and Beaver101, isn't it ? ......


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

heyjude said:


> Fashions come and go, and it is inevitable that not everyone will like them.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me why men in suits are constantly fiddling with their jacket buttons, closing them when standing up and opening them when sitting down?


My best guess would be for comfort. Sitting down with your arms extended would cause the jacket to tighten up (uncomfortable around the shoulders), especially with the "slim fit" trend. They just need to add some spandex to the material. Same goes for dress shirts...


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> Fashions come and go, and it is inevitable that not everyone will like them.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me why men in suits are constantly fiddling with their jacket buttons, closing them when standing up and opening them when sitting down?


That's easy heyjude. It's all about stress. Stress on the fabric, not the 'stresses of life.'

Having a suit button/s done up when standing is like having your top button of your shirt done up when wearing a tie. It is simply what is correct 'form'. There is no law that says you cannot leave your suit buttons all undone when standing but it kind of misses the point of wearing a suit. 

Undoing your suit button/s when sitting actually has a more practical reason and is not just good 'form'. It is undone to relieve the stress on the fabric that comes when you sit down.

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/advice/a33367/how-to-button-suit-jacket/


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> nice pic.....humble_pie, and Beaver101, isn't it ? ......


 ... yes, but are the models twins? Noticed how the trousers got longer and the jacket(?) got shorter over the years. But everything is shorter nowadays - guess less fabric means money-saving fashion. Hmmm... I don't see hairy legs so were they wearing stockings then?


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> That's easy heyjude. It's all about stress. Stress on the fabric, not the 'stresses of life.'
> 
> Having a suit button/s done up when standing is like having your top button of your shirt done up when wearing a tie. It is simply what is correct 'form'. There is no law that says you cannot leave your suit buttons all undone when standing but it kind of misses the point of wearing a suit.
> 
> ...


Thanks, stress on the fabric makes sense. The Esquire article also says that a two button jacket should never have the bottom button fastened. So.......why is it there?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... yes, but are the models twins? Noticed how the trousers got longer and the jacket(?) got shorter over the years. But everything is shorter nowadays - guess less fabric means money-saving fashion. Hmmm... I don't see hairy legs so were they wearing stockings then?


at least you're not weating brown shoes !


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Actually brown shoes would be fitting for the mannequin on the right. I find there is nothing wrong with wearing brown shoes - it all depends on how it looks with the rest of the outfit plus the season.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> Thanks, stress on the fabric makes sense. The Esquire article also says that a two button jacket should never have the bottom button fastened. So.......why is it there?


Ah, it's there because of fashion heyjude, nothing to do with practicality. Why does a man's suit have buttons on the cuffs? Answer, so they could roll up their sleeves. Most cuff buttons today can't even actually be used, they're just sewn on. They are there today because of tradition not function. Why does one suit have 3 buttons on the cuffs while another has 4? Answer, the more buttons, the more formal the 'look'. In times past, more buttons (and more buttonholes) obviously indicated more cost and so they were an indication of just how wealthy someone was. They still are to a degree today. Today, if you look carefully, you will sometimes see someone wearing a suit with actual functioning buttons/buttonholes on the cuffs. You can pretty much be sure that is a tailor made suit or at least a more expensive 'off the rack' suit. Simple sewn on (no button holes) buttons found on 'off the rack' suits are easy to move up or down if the sleeves of the suit jacket need to be lengthened or shortened, you can't do that if there are actual button holes, so you generally only find them on tailored suits.
https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/mens-sleeve-buttons-what-for/


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> Ah, it's there because of fashion heyjude, nothing to do with practicality. Why does a man's suit have buttons on the cuffs? Answer, so they could roll up their sleeves. Most cuff buttons today can't even actually be used, they're just sewn on. They are there today because of tradition not function. Why does one suit have 3 buttons on the cuffs while another has 4? Answer, the more buttons, the more formal the 'look'. In times past, more buttons (and more buttonholes) obviously indicated more cost and so they were an indication of just how wealthy someone was. They still are to a degree today. Today, if you look carefully, you will sometimes see someone wearing a suit with actual functioning buttons/buttonholes on the cuffs. You can pretty much be sure that is a tailor made suit or at least a more expensive 'off the rack' suit. Simple sewn on (no button holes) buttons found on 'off the rack' suits are easy to move up or down if the sleeves of the suit jacket need to be lengthened or shortened, you can't do that if there are actual button holes, so you generally only find them on tailored suits.
> https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/mens-sleeve-buttons-what-for/


Very interesting, thanks! 
There are some interesting channels on YouTube that focus on fashion history, but the emphasis is mostly on women’s clothing.


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