# new communities in GTA



## akka (Feb 22, 2010)

Hi All

I needed your thoughts,since I am still new to GTA.What are the new & developing citis/communities where I can buy a townhome for 300K,<10 years old and near to Go station.I was looking for 3 Br+1.5,no separate entrance for basement.Appreciate your input.Thanks.

Akhil


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Here is one on Stouffville that comes close to your criteria. Go train nearby.

Townhouse new and asking $309,900

Used should go for less. Nice subdivision and a good community too.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

In that kind of a price range, I would research the end of the various GO lines.

300K sounds like alot of money, but it barely gets you in the RE market now.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

akka, you have been priced out of the GTA market, like so many others.
Not your fault, blame the stupid interest rate policies of the govt.
It will be very hard to find a new(er) townhome in a good neighborhood for 300K.
You may be able to find a smaller townhome like 1500 sq. ft. or so.
Stouffville is a nice area, but it is quite far.
If you work downtown and have a permanent, fixed working hrs. job then it might work for you.
A couple of other places to consider are Cambridge, Guelph and Burlington.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

The parking lots at the ends of GO and TTC lines are jammed up after 6AM.

Live as close to work as possible. Getting to work in the GTA is an awful experience.

If you don't believe me, try getting to/from work at your normal weekday work hours, not on a weekend.

Choose your location as close to work as humanly possible. In one of my GTA jobs I simply walked to work. Great exercise and saved a boatload of $ and commuting stress.


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

I haven't looked too carefully, but Oshawa/Ajax/Pickering may also fulfill that criteria.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Please read this thread and consider carefully the advice that was given:

http://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php?t=2529&page=9


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

It's honestly depressing with how expensive the housing market is right now. Of course I'm in the market for an up size in the near future. There is no cheap place with affordable housing near transit anymore. The thought of having a 500,000k+ mortgage makes me sick.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Jungle said:


> It's honestly depressing with how expensive the housing market is right now. Of course I'm in the market for an up size in the near future. There is no cheap place with affordable housing near transit anymore. The thought of having a 500,000k+ mortgage makes me sick.


I'm in the same boat.
I consider myself fortunate that I was able to buy a home just at the point the market was about to take off (of course, it was a pure chance and not a calculated move).
We'll need to upgrade at some point in the next couple of years, but I feel squeezed out of the market, inspite of a decent appreciation of my current property.
We're looking down the barell of a $300K+ mortgage, at the very least.

Blame the stupid interest rate policy of govt. on both sides of the border that is fuelling this insane speculative market.
Some folks trade houses more often some of us trade stocks !
I wish we could physically relocate some of those vacant houses from the US here into Canada and help bring prices down.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Patience.... 

Inventory is building up in Brampton and Mississauga and 905 region which is what we saw before prices went down in 2008.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

You don't have to go all the way to Stoufville, you can find newer townhouses for under 300k in Scarborough.

Example: http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9967833&PidKey=-41468388


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> You don't have to go all the way to Stoufville, you can find newer townhouses for under 300k in Scarborough.
> 
> Example: http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9967833&PidKey=-41468388


That's one of the worst areas to live in Toronto. Malvern. Your neighbours are gang members and most people are associate with crime. Still to pay 300k for that is nuts.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Always look at a police website crime map (if available) when selecting a location in which to live. Why any non-criminal would choose to live in an area ridden with crime is beyond me. Live somewhere else.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Jungle said:


> That's one of the worst areas to live in Toronto. Malvern. Your neighbours are gang members and most people are associate with crime. Still to pay 300k for that is nuts.


Malvern's not the Bridle Path but it's no Jane/Finch either. There's been a lot of new development there in the last few years and most of the wannabe thugs have left by now because they can't afford to stay there.

In general I think the area around the zoo and southeastern Markham is a good place to find an affordable house.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Always look at a police website crime map (if available) when selecting a location in which to live. Why any non-criminal would choose to live in an area ridden with crime is beyond me. Live somewhere else.


Those maps are useless, they show crime in every single neighborhood. Especially in a place like Toronto where you have wealthy supposedly high-class neighborhoods only a 5 minute drive from poor high-crime neighborhoods. You really think a carjacker or burglar from Jane/Finch can't take a 5 minute drive to Willowdale to commit his crimes? If you're worried about crime then you really shouldn't be in Toronto, move to some small town.


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## davext (Apr 11, 2010)

I know an area where one side of the street is ghetto, low income housing, and the other side are nicer newer homes and townhouses with a green park. One time there was a shooting and the victim ran over to the nicer area to sprawl and die. I decided that I wouldn't live in a nicer area so close to the ghetto.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I am really liking the area around Morningside and Kingston Road for increase in prices. 

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9907599&PidKey=662437081


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Schetchy area. ^^

My co-worker owns in Malvern and once said, "the crime rate keeps my property taxes low."


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

^^ not in malvern, area was bad, clearly transitional now, they built a giant shopping mall right at the corner of Lawrence and Kingston and it's next door to Port Union a very nice area. 

All in all this is one area I expect will appreciate in price because of *gentrification*.


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## qmanrei (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm partial to Pickering, Ajax and Whitby. We purchased our first home in Ajax and now we live in Whitby. I drive into Yonge and Sheppard every day. Takes about 45 minutes one way. I really don't mind the travel, except when there is a snow storm. The area we live in is very family centric and everyone is quite friendly.

There is a new townhouse development by the Pickering go station - I think they were selling for 288K, but I'm not sure. There are also some condo towers there too but I'm not sure what the name of the development is. They are also in the process of beginning to decommission Pickering nuclear starting in 2012.

Take Care


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## akka (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks ll for replies.Lots of useful information.


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## Rob_23 (May 29, 2010)

The town homes in Pickering are http://www.sanfranciscobythebay.com/. They are actually very nice, there just starting to dig for the first of 2 condo towers i believe. The towns might be sold out but they come up on MLS often. Whst is also nice is you are literally 2 mins from the GO train/bus and 10 min walk form the boardwalk.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

And that's about the only thing good about them. ^^

We went to see them twice over the last couple of years. We did a tour with the sales lady on a finished, unoccupied townhome. The unit next to it was occupied and the guy had is stereo on. We noticed the sound was coming right through the wall. It was unreasonably loud. I live in a condo and have lived in a townhouse; I know when the builder cheeped out on wall insulation. The sales lady was quite embarrassed and said she would contact the builder regarding the sound insulation, or lack thereof. 

Also, the builder really cheeped out on everything. The baseboards were the lowest grade, the carpet looked cheap, light fixtures were minimal. Etc. Also to save money, the furnace and air conditioning were rented, not owned. It did not come with ANY appliances. This was a 3 bedroom, no back yard for $325,000.  But they were willing to throw in a free BBQ..

And to anyone reading about Kingston Road and Morningside , stay far, far away. That is the centre of the toilet in Scarborough. You odds of getting mugged there are quite high.


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## Bullseye (Apr 5, 2009)

Plenty of newer townhomes under $300k in Burlington right near Appleby GO station (Fairview and Appleby).


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Bullseye said:


> Plenty of newer townhomes under $300k in Burlington right near Appleby GO station (Fairview and Appleby).


That's madness. Burlington is FAR from downtown Toronto. Ever ridden the GO trains to downtown? Sardine cans and if you get a seat you are always facing two strangers and have that awkward eye-contact problem. Winter time? Frozen track switches and numerous train cancellations and delays. And to pay $300K for the privilege plus the commute costs? No thanks.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

The other issue with Burlington is that the only major highway access is through the QEW, which is a parking lot on the best of days.
Living in Burlington is ok as long as you work in Burlington or Oakville, or maybe Hamilton along the 403.
If you work downtown TO, you are looking at a long day.


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## Bullseye (Apr 5, 2009)

There are LOADS of people who live in Burlington and GO train into Toronto every day, I know plenty of them personally. It's 40 minutes each way, and they read or work on laptops. 

Burlington also has the 407 through it, which makes it easy (although expensive) to get to anywhere in the GTA north of the QEW. My wife works in Mississauga and is there in 15 minutes from Burlington.

I work in Oakville myself, and agree that the QEW is a nightmare. Takes me 20 minutes to go 17km from home to work.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

You would be wise not to count the GO Train commute time. That time can be used productively. But do count the commute to and from the trains and any wait times. 

The train schedules themselves will also be a factor depending on your work environment.


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## canadianbanks (Jun 5, 2009)

Berubeland said:


> Patience....
> 
> Inventory is building up in Brampton and Mississauga and 905 region which is what we saw before prices went down in 2008.


Hi Berubeland,

I'm curious where did you get this information from?



Thanks,

Peter


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

kcowan said:


> You would be wise not to count the GO Train commute time. That time can be used productively. But do count the commute to and from the trains and any wait times.


Why not? It has an impact on your quality of life and productivity.
Not everyone is able to leverage that time efficiently.
At 6:00 am in the morning you could be groggy and barely half awake.
GO trains are usually crowded and not very conducive for doing confidential work.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

For people that think the Go Train is bad the subway is worse. Lower class people, even more crowded. I have had concern for my safety and comfort a few times when some sketched out people on drugs started freaking out. There seems to always be one on the train.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> Why not? It has an impact on your quality of life and productivity.
> Not everyone is able to leverage that time efficiently.
> At 6:00 am in the morning you could be groggy and barely half awake.
> GO trains are usually crowded and not very conducive for doing confidential work.


Based on my observations, nearly everyone finds something productive to do: some catch up on their sleep; some catch up on reading; some catch up with friends chatting; some do knitting, etc.

But yes there are a few who stare into space without thinking, and, for those, it is unproductive time. Also I hate the ones who use the time talking on their cell phones.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Yabbut there's a difference between finding something productive to do in a situation where you HAVE to find something to do with the time or simply squander it; and making choices which don't put you in that position at all.

Personally (and to each their own!) I would find a 2+ hour commute each day really intolerable. I commute to my workplace each day by bike, and also spend 1+ hours each day at the gym. Where would I find the time to add that 2+ hours of exercise in my day if I had to squeeze it in around a 2h commute?


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## Riff Raff (Sep 5, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> Personally (and to each their own!) I would find a 2+ hour commute each day really intolerable. I commute to my workplace each day by bike, and also spend 1+ hours each day at the gym. Where would I find the time to add that 2+ hours of exercise in my day if I had to squeeze it in around a 2h commute?


when I was commuting into Toronto daily (from Peterborough) everything in my life got set aside it seemed. I would be on the road by 5am, get to work around 7. Leave around 3:30, get home (hopefully) by 6pm. Eat supper, do a few chores then crash. It was awful.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I am not recommending it. But some people end up there because of the interaction of work and home priorities. The point is that it is not the end of the world.

And better than a 45 minute commute by car which I did for 5 years.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

The thought of being that close to other people I don't know, people who smell, people who are breathing my air, is so frankly horrific, I would rather ride my bike across downtown Toronto in the winter for two years, from Dufferin to Jarvis. 

I don't like being close to people I don't know. I don't like concerts and crowds either. Public transit is some kind of modern torture device now that thumbscrews have been outlawed. Next time you are on the lovely subway crammed in like a sardine I challenge you to find someone smiling. 

I would gladly pay $20 per day and spend an extra hour driving than be subject to public transit


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> Next time you are on the lovely subway crammed in like a sardine I challenge you to find someone smiling.


I believe this is an effect of the rat race slave culture and rudeness of people in Toronto. 

Everytime I look at someone's miserable mug on the subway it gives me relief that we aim to retire early by ways of paying off debt, saving and investing.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I've given up using public transit (and as a car driver am villified as a result) for the reasons mentioned above. Not to mention that modern low floor buses allow people to wheel on wheelchairs, carts, walking frames and SUV-sized strollers at the expense of 20-50% or more of the seating/space. They want the majority of riders to cram into the back to accomodate these wheeled devices, then when you get to the back you have to listen to someone's blaring ipod or cell phone conversation. 

Then when you get to work you are once again in a crowded downtown area in a crowded area. No thanks. 

Companies should spread out in the cities and towns more. We live in a huge country and most of the people are forced to live like sardines to keep food on the table. Move the good jobs away from crowded downtowns that have us all perpetually competing with each other for an inch of space and breathing room. There are plenty of towns and small cities across the land that NEED the jobs and tax revenue by an employer moving into the area with good jobs. The whole city thing is quite absurd for most pencil pushers who can work anywhere.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The Ontario government tried distributing their functions to smaller communities. I am not sure how it turned out but I am pretty sure that the green types do not approve of it anymore.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Companies should spread out in the cities and towns more. We live in a huge country and most of the people are forced to live like sardines to keep food on the table. Move the good jobs away from crowded downtowns that have us all perpetually competing with each other for an inch of space and breathing room. There are plenty of towns and small cities across the land that NEED the jobs and tax revenue by an employer moving into the area with good jobs. The whole city thing is quite absurd for most pencil pushers who can work anywhere.





kcowan said:


> the green types do not approve of it anymore.


Those guys are full of hot air.
Respectfully, I think they are well-meaning but misdirecting their ammo.
TRM, I'm totally with you.
That is exactly how the population must increase and expand.
The solution, IMHO, is not more public transit or better public transit.
At times like these where all govt. are already over extended and there is too much fiscal stimulus, pouring more and more money into public transit is simply not possible.
We cannot afford public transit.

We have to look for ways to get away from this entire "office" work culture.
The whole concept of going to work in a train/bus/car, an office where everybody comes in work and then leave is so archaic.
We have to move away from this work culture.
The technology and the facilities already exist today for an officeless work environment.
Fast Internet, video conferencing, mobile presence, everything is there.
We have all the ingredients needed for moving towards an officeless and commuteless work culture.
All we need is a shift in our attitudes.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> I've given up using public transit (and as a car driver am villified as a result) for the reasons mentioned above. Not to mention that modern low floor buses allow people to *wheel on wheelchairs, carts, walking frames and SUV-sized strollers* at the expense of 20-50% or more of the seating/space. They want the majority of riders to cram into the back to accomodate these wheeled devices, then when you get to the back you have to listen to someone's blaring ipod or cell phone conversation.


So are you saying that people with wheelchairs, walkers and strollers shouldn't be allowed to use public transit?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Thank you Harold. The whole transit thing is a real money pit. In Winnipeg for instance they are spending $138 million dollars to build a 5.6KM dedicated road for buses in the middle of the city. That is an absurd amount of money to spend for less than 6KM of road.

I think there's a bit of a conspiracy/control thing at play here. By having everyone in a confined space with few transportation options, makes their case stronger to demand the taxpayer foot the bill for expensive busways and bikelanes, citing traffic congestion and villifying cars. I'm no rocket scientist, but the reason downtown areas (and the roads leading to them) are congested and have traffic gridlock is because of all the huge towers in a tiny confined part of the city. They call this "vibrant", "population density" or "revitalized". Nonsense. There's lots of parking, fresh air and all the infrastructure anyone could ever need in the many towns and small cities across this country. There are THOUSANDS of towns like this. If these greenies would leave their cities they would see that. Like the officeless world, we only need to take advantage of what's there.

But that would take away control from the few and give it to the many, something that apparently flies in the face of modern left-leaning ideaology.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> All we need is a shift in our attitudes.


Anything is possible. But progress will come when it becomes acceptable to the various interest group.


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

In an ideal world, we should have built our cities to be much more efficient than they are. I mean, I'd be happy to bike to work every day and back, if I felt it was perfectly safe, and I wouldn't get hit by a car.

However, I also think we're insufficiently pricing the negative externalities of transportation. I mean, if car traffic is so horrendous in cities, why don't we price it so that it's more expensive to get in, through traffic charges, a la London, while increasing city revenue? 

The fact is that the cities are getting more congested, not less over time, worldwide, and in North America. At the end of the day, we're a subset of the population that uses high-tech interactive technology to communicate, but the vast majority of people aren't ... they still want to feel connected to community and cities, and how are you going to move massive amounts of people around?

Unfortunately, the answer is still going to be mass transportation. Our system just plainly sucks. It's slow, it's inefficient, and it plainly fails.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Why should the majority of commuters who need and want to use their cars have to pay more tax just so a minority of users can ride a bus or use a bicycle? I don't agree with that. We pay enough tax. Too much in fact. As I said above, if city congestion is such an issue, then office complexes should locate elsewhere, where their employees and their transportation needs can be properly accomodated.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

GeniusBoy27 said:


> we're a subset of the population that uses high-tech interactive technology to communicate, but the vast majority of people aren't ... they still want to feel connected to community and cities, and how are you going to move massive amounts of people around?
> 
> Unfortunately, the answer is still going to be mass transportation. Our system just plainly sucks. It's slow, it's inefficient, and it plainly fails.


IMHO, the boat of mass, rapid, long-distance transit system has already sailed for us here in US & Canada.
Japan and the USSR were the pioneers in this field. Europe caught up about a decade or so after that.
I feel it's too late for us.
Let's take south western Ontario as an example, with its hub in Toronto.
For us to do something like that, we would need a rapid transit system that can move hundreds of thousands of people between say London on the west to Toronto, and on the east end, from Peterborough/Kingston into Toronto.
And within the city of Toronto, we would need an underground Subway system like New York.
The cost of building all of this will easily run into billions of dollars and we are looking at a minimum of 10 year time frame for all this.

The sooner we abandon this whole office-based and commute based work culture the better it is.
The technology is there, the infrastructure is there.
The social, environmental and financial savings for this will be huge.


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

I didn't say that (or at least, I didn't mean to.) I said a fair market value should be set for the usage of cars downtowns. Big Business, will always want to stay central (the banks, chartered accountant firms, big law firms, finance companies). In fact, that's why satellite cities exist around big metropolitans, because of that issue of convenience.

I'm arguing for a free market system that prices the value of my time and convenience to get to the privilege of the downtown core. One of the interesting things is that you pay a premium for living in Toronto. Your taxes goes to support the value of people coming in from outside Toronto to work in Toronto. Why shouldn't some of the burden be placed on the individuals who "work" in Toronto, but don't live in Toronto?

Return the profit to the property owners in Toronto by lowering their property taxes. I feel like I'm subsidizing the 905 to maintain adequate services in the city. There are costs and burdens associated with building a transportation system, both public and private that go beyond simply putting structure down (and should include the negative externality costs of pollution, traffic congestion and time wasted), and a truly good market system should price this into consideration. 

In short, I think the 416 should ask the 905 to pay a fair share of its burden to maintain the city core, and the transportation charge may be one way to capture it.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

GeniusBoy27 said:


> ...In short, I think the 416 should ask the 905 to pay a fair share of its burden to maintain the city core, and the transportation charge may be one way to capture it.


I think you got your wish. The province finances the GO Train and the TTC.


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