# stornoway at last ! we must be getting close to sussex drive !



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

not sure if this message will result in a poll or not. I suspect this will fail. However a poll is my goal. Would be grateful to any brave soul who can work this up into a poll.

(EDIT) ok it didn't work.



do you see thomas Mulcair as the prime minister of canada ?

- yes

- no, never

- undecided


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> do you see thomas Mulcair as the prime minister of canada ?


must say, my first reaction was "who" ? After years and years as a bride's maid, the NDP finally got to be the maid of honour, big shoes to fill for sure . . . it will be certainly be interesting to watch . . . by the way, is long time NDP-er Bob Rea still the interim leader of the Liberals ???


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Given that I've never heard of that person, I will vote "no, never".


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Highly unlikely IMO. 


The federal NDP did enjoy a larger sweep of the popular vote in the 2011 election due to
the popularity of Jack Layton, who got 30.67% of the popular vote.
Jack Layton is the only leader of the NDP on a federal level to do so. 

While the NDP has managed to form gov'ts in BC, Sask and once in Ontario, it's a totally different
situation on the federal level. The anomaly was that in 2011 all the new NDP members in Quebec that were elected to
give Jack Layton a sweep over Michael Ignatieff, that he otherwise wouldn't have got.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it is unlikely, but i'm not sure how high the unlikelihood rises.

look at that face full of unholy glee. Look at that strut. Sussex drive is what he's aiming for.

first, he has to get the riven party behind him. Assume that gets done.

then he has to keep all those orange seats in quebec. Assume that gets done. Assume, too, that he recruits all the remaining Bloc seats.

then he has to build a large, strong base in ontario. Not impossible, because here he will pick up many fallen liberals who'll see themselves as temporary defectors because right now they don't have any leadership.

bc has a lot of orange already. I'm not sure how he'll fare in the 3 prairie provinces.

depending on how well mulcair can knit together his supporters & his erstwhile enemies, he could present a real challenge to harper by 2015.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

He's not very likable (but then again, neither is Harper). He has none of the charm that Dippers liked from Jack Layton (I always found his shtick a little insincere and car-salesmany for a university professor).

I hope he's not elected. He's a smug, self-satisfied hot-head. At least he's centrist.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

If we're willing to elect this guy after he decided this outfit was a good idea, anyone's got a chance...


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Mulcair has more in the charisma department than any of the other current leaders, and he's perfectly bilingual. He has the bonus of having quit the Liberals (the Québec Liberals, that is) on a matter of principle when he was environment minister of the province. I actually think he has a good chance.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I think it is unlikely as Mulcair would have to perform an amazing balancing act. For one, he has to be seen as the protector and enhancer of Quebec rights while at the same time not alienating a large part of his base in the ROC. Already the NDP found itself in a very awkward position when such things as seat redistribution arose. According to today's paper, the NDP has taken a strong position against the clarity law that would define the terms of a future Quebec separation. Then he would have to at least hold his support in western Canada and more likely build on it. However, the NDPs position of topics such as energy and the "petrodollar" likely scare the bejusus out of much of the population of Alberta, BC and Saskatchewan. Then he has to balance the varying views in his own party -- many of whom seem fairly militant and quite far to the left of Mulcair.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

it'll be a mighty balancing act for sure. But look how his compatriote from quebec managed to pull it off, more than once.

speaking of the famous name, would someone be willing to put up a poll for the Trudeau/Brazeau fight coming up soon. Too bad we can't send money thru cmf forum otherwise we could have a betting match to raise $$ for charity.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm not so sure. I think the only reason they got all those seats last election was to get rid of the bloc. Many of those MPs were rookies, some can't speak french and some didn't even put much effort into the campaign. Voters typically vote the old party out, not the new one in. This country knows we have to balance the books and Harper is on his way to getting that done. I don't think this country can stomach the tax and spend ndp machine.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> it is unlikely, but i'm not sure how high the unlikelihood rises.
> 
> look at that face full of unholy glee. Look at that strut. Sussex drive is what he's aiming for.
> 
> first, he has to get the riven party behind him. Assume that gets done.


Canada has only 3 PM of Irish heritage that have managed to become PMs, and neither one of the 3 were
NDP. Louis St. Laurent (Irish mother), Lester Pearson, and the infamous Brian M. (no, I did not take those
cash bribes from Karl Heinz Schreiber while I was PM)...

Ed Broadbent, a distinguished professor in law I believe, did not manage to reach the lofty height of leader of
the opposition while devoted NDP representative.

So, the chance of the left (supporting the labour unions) getting a chance at the top post against the "establishment"
in the next election..well we know what happened to "Iggy".




> then he has to keep all those orange seats in quebec. Assume that gets done. Assume, too, that he recruits all the remaining Bloc seats.


That was a fluke in la belle Province. Quebecs were in a rebellious mood because of what Duceppe did or didn't do..they believed that he had sold them out against the Harper gov't and it was basically a protest vote against Duceppe.
This is supported by some of the elected NDP MPs that never lived in the ridings they represent, in fact one (female MP) didn't speak french and was a bartender in a pub at Carleton U in Ottawa...go figure 
how that was "rigged". 
Of course maybe the current PM isn't so lilly white himself since the robo call scandal has emerged either...
so anything in politics is possible.



> then he has to build a large, strong base in ontario. Not impossible, because here he will pick up many fallen liberals who'll see themselves as temporary defectors because right now they don't have any leadership.


That remains to be seen, while "crossing over" occurs occasionally due to disillusionment (or secret bribes), I can't see that a Irish heritage lawyer from Quebec has enough influence to win ALL the Liberal seats he will need to get a minority, or even a majority gov't in the next election. The Harper steamroller is very strong.



> bc has a lot of orange already. I'm not sure how he'll fare in the 3 prairie provinces.


You are talking provincial politics and the track record of NDP provincial gov'ts (with the exception maybe of Sask.
is not very good. There has been a lot of churn in the BC NDP gov'ts and some of us may remember the boondoggle
that Bob Rae (who has crossed the floor in recent years) imposed on Ontario.



> depending on how well mulcair can knit together his supporters & his erstwhile enemies, he could present a real challenge to harper by 2015.


Well, IMO, unless the Grits come up with a dynamic charismatic leader like "True-dough", or the NDP with Jack Layton, the Blue Tory machine will steamroll it's way into a minority gov't at least. 
Canada is too divided regionally to have overwhelming support of the NDP in all provinces at a federal level
..and there is the swing vote to contend with (as we saw in the last federal election in Quebec).


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> he could present a real challenge to harper by 2015.


I have no time now, nor real desire to elaborate, but I hope you're dead wrong on this one!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

andrewf said:


> At least he's centrist.


Is that what you call a guy from Outremont?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

nobody betting on the trudeau/brazeau match ?

all odds are on brazeau. The way trudeau holds up his wrists is, well, limp ...


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

It's hard to bet on a boxer nicknamed "pretty boy". Good on both of them for raising money for charity thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzX_RAmv-MM


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

To be fair, carver, no NDP leader of any descent/ancestry has become PM.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm undecided on Mulcair. The next election is years away and a week is a long time in politics. On one hand, Harper would have been in power for about a decade and voters might tire of the Conservatives. If enough Liberals defect to the NDP, many Ontario ridings could turn Orange. But Mulcair has challenges on his own including keeping the gains made in this election in the next.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

no leader of the opposition has ever eyed sussex drive during such an era of post-fukushima liberal party annihilation. It's the chance not just of a lifetime but of the total span of canadian history since confederation. Is why mulcair wears that look of a cunning pig who sees, incredibly, a chance to triumph in the pork barrels.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

All I want to know is when are the attack ads starting.
Both ways.
I am in it for the entertainment


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

... when you think of it brazeau's name could translate to watery arms.

so canadian. Limp wrists v watery arms, for charity.


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm curious to see what sort of mud Harper will dig up to tarnish him with. Right now he is a blank canvass.

As for the NDP gaining power they will need to move to the center and effectively become the Liberal party. So no the NDP will not gain power as the NDP, but it could as the Liberal party, but it will probably rip itself apart before it does that.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

homes that's what the ndp leader election struggle was all about imho. The centrists won while the classic ndp candidates like messieurs topp-broadbent-dewar got sidelined on the left.

this is the ndp chance. To be elected by 1915 as the born-again liberal party. If they don't look sharp & seize these few years, the liberals will manage to reinvent themselves & take it all away.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

​


andrewf said:


> To be fair, carver, no NDP leader of any descent/ancestry has become PM.


Agreed. Leaving the ancestry out of the equation, the NDP (and their former socialist roots (CCF) under Tommy Douglas, (regarded as the father of Medicare in Canada), was formed from the remnants of the CCF also regarded by some as "communist" in the early days.
While they have come a long way since the CCF days, they have a socialist platform compared to the other two parties. Saskatchewan being the original CCF province under Tommy Douglas, is probably about the only province that continues to maintain a NDP gov't...what's the population representation of SASK compared to the rest of Canada?...1,049,701 compared to about 35 million in total for Canada.
Other than the anomaly of Quebec in the last election and perhaps the industrial heartland of southern Ontario/Toronto, possibly some of BC...the NDP really don't represent the majority of the population of Canada. 

Of course Harper is no more PC than some of his Alliance party members that eagerly embraced the PC banner in order to get a foothold in the rest of Canada.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

The best cure for desiring an NDP government is to _have_ one. Unfortunately with new and younger eligible voters constantly coming on scene the lesson has to be re-learned every so often......rinse & repeat, so to speak.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Nemo2 said:


> The best cure for desiring an NDP government is to _have_ one.


I've heard exactly the same thing said about Conservative governments. Basically it comes down to tax-and-spend versus tax-and-don't spend.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

NDP is tax-and-spend, Conservative is borrow-and-spend.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

^ let's not forget the third stooge - the Liberals.
They are tax + borrow + rob = spend.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

harold i believe i will vote for you as soon as i can figure out what party you might be running for.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

People who've dealt with Mulcair view him as aggressive and extremely protective of Quebec interests. Some of the questions arising in forum-land:

- Will he try to do away with the clarity act? 
- Will he demand that Supreme Court judges be bi-lingual ?
- Will he insist that all federally regulated interests in Quebec be subject to Bill 101 ? 
- Will he demand that Quebec have 25% of the federal seats regardless of population?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> harold i believe i will vote for you as soon as i can figure out what party you might be running for.





> Quoting Harold: ^ let's not forget the third stooge - the Liberals.
> They are* tax + borrow + rob = spend*.



I'm in the same camp as Harold..very disillusioned with all the gov'ts these days. 
I don't care a hoot about the rest of Canada..but what's in it for me?
Just found out that the thousands I spent on making my house wheelchair accessible last year and this year,
and my medical receipts are only allowed as 3% of my taxable income or $2,000 *WHICH EVER IS LESS*! and that's tax credit.... which then you have to number crunch by your effective tax rate to finally come up with the real dollar amount. *This is gov't robbery at it's finest example*..taking advantage of those with medical/disability problems.


Then what they gouge from the infirm, the blind and the lame, they waste it on stupid jets (F35) that still 
don't fly and probably will cost $100million a piece by the time they are ready. Might as well build a museum for them (at taxpayers expense), to house them along with the subs that won't dive. 

Is it any wonder that some of us are disillusioned with the Fiberals or Harper and his cronies, 
and then NDP ...which don't have a clue on how to ruin a country..all they can do is attack the ones that are.

NOTE: the typo in the last sentence is intentional.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> People who've dealt with Mulcair view him as aggressive and extremely protective of Quebec interests. Some of the questions arising in forum-land:
> 
> - Will he try to do away with the clarity act?
> - Will he demand that Supreme Court judges be bi-lingual ?
> ...


He can demand all he wants..Herr Harper is in control and he has stacked the senate to pass only what he wants passed.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think killing the Clarity Act is a non-starter in the Rest of Canada. I certainly would not tolerate it. It is a perfectly sensible law, besides, and will make any future referendums a bit less of a psychodrama. 

I think the NDP's flirtation with Quebec nationalism helped them win many seats in Quebec. When the Rest of Canada realizes that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth (totally different messages in each official language), it will make the next election campaign very awkward for them. The NDP benefited from a late surge that did not allow proper attention to be paid to their positions by the electorate, or their opponents to properly criticize them. They won't have that benefit next time.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> He can demand all he wants..Herr Harper is in control and he has stacked the senate to pass only what he wants passed.


Has _any_ P.M. of _any_ party ever acted differently? And why would _any_ P.M. appoint senators with opposing viewpoints?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It is rare, but Paul Martin appointed a senator from another party.

Harper is going further. He's trying to break the Senate in such a way that we will have a constitutional crisis in the future, which will force us to modify the Senate, most likely abolishing it. If in 2015 the Conservatives lose power, they will have a majority in the Senate for the next mandate and intend to use it to block the legislation of whatever government follows in the House of Commons.

This is a very dangerous strategy. The Senate was never intended to be such an overtly partisan body. It is better used as an internal 'supreme court' that reviews legislation and recommends amendments before they are passed. We have seen the distressing trend of badly written legislation being rammed through the House of Commons without debate, and then being rammed through the Senate. Case in point the 'lawful access' legislation. The Minister responsible didn't even have an understanding of how the bill was worded, and the unintended consequences of that wording. The bill grants the Minister the power to allow anyone (not just police) to demand warrantless access to personally identifiable information from ISPs. That includes the pimple-faced partisan operatives working for the party. Just how long until that power is abused for partisan ends?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> Has _any_ P.M. of _any_ party ever acted differently? And why would _any_ P.M. appoint senators with opposing viewpoints?


It would be nice if the senate actually represented the population rather than a bunch of overpaid rubber stamping "yes" men.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> It is rare, but Paul Martin appointed a senator from another party.


I wish Paul Martin would have won the election. I don't particularily like what I'm seeing with the dictatorial practices of Harper.



> This is a very dangerous strategy. The Senate was never intended to be such an overtly partisan body. It is better used as an internal 'supreme court' that reviews legislation and recommends amendments before they are passed. We have seen the distressing trend of* badly written legislation being rammed through the House of Commons without debate*, and then being rammed through the Senate. Case in point the 'lawful access' legislation. The Minister responsible didn't even have an understanding of how the bill was worded, and the unintended consequences of that wording. The bill grants the Minister the power to allow anyone (not just police) to demand warrantless access to personally identifiable information from ISPs. That includes the pimple-faced partisan operatives working for the party. Just how long until that power is abused for partisan ends?


If it passes, it will give the right for the ARCYMP to break down the door any time of the day or night and cart away your
computer. While I agree that child porn needs to be addressed in a stern fashion to stop the spread, that alone shouldn't be the mandate for the gov't (Vic Toews) to proclaim "you are either with us or with the pornographers".
What about the individuals out there that don't take either side?

What's the next step..similar to wartime Germany, where you can't listen to broadcasts from foreign sources for fear of imprisonment or death? 

"STOP HARPER!"


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> homes that's what the ndp leader election struggle was all about imho. The centrists won while the classic ndp candidates like messieurs topp-broadbent-dewar got sidelined on the left.
> 
> this is the ndp chance. To be elected by 1915 as the born-again liberal party. If they don't look sharp & seize these few years, the liberals will manage to reinvent themselves & take it all away.


Shows you how much media cover the NDP leadership campaign got, or how much the average voter cared.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> It would be nice if the senate actually represented the population rather than a bunch of overpaid rubber stamping "yes" men.


Now you're asking too much! LOL


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

LondonHomes said:


> Shows you how much media cover the NDP leadership campaign got, or how much the average voter cared.


[quoting HP here]
this is the ndp chance. *To be elected by 1915 as the born-again liberal party.* If they don't look sharp & seize these few years, the liberals will manage to reinvent themselves & take it all away. [/quote]

I would say they have gone about as far as they can at this point. Highly unlikely they will merge with the Fiberals or visa vie.
Once Quebec realizes that it wasn't such a good idea to elect a bunch of inexperienced representatives, (some can't even speak french) to Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, it will change again. 

Look what's happing in Alberta with the Wild Rose Party taking on the "PC" establishment.
I'm sure if there was a dog running in Alberta who happened to be Tory Blue, they would vote for him. 

Lets face it, the BLOC once held the majority of seats in Quebec, so they must have done something very gauche to get
Quebecers to vote against them...or was it that Duceppe was just spinning his wheels against Harper...
and not getting anywhere?

It's all going to change again, but first the Fiberals need to get some by-elections running somewhere in order to build up their numbers. Doesn't really matter right now, who's in official opposition status, they are just talking hot air against Harper's majority.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carve they all learned to speak french, it's not that hard of a thing to do


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Carver, for your mental and spiritual stability, I would recommend finding another hobby than politics. A strong NDP fighting for votes with a Bob Rae led Liberal party is probably a Harper wet-dream. (In fact, I can't for the life of me figure why the Conservatives are currently running anti-Rae commercials. If anything, they should be convincing him to hang around for a while.) After all, as the population ages they have a tendency to become more fiscally Conservative. Unless Harper commits murder (literally and not figuratively) and is found with blood spattered all over his clothing, we will probably have a Conservative government for a long time to come.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

_" A strong NDP fighting for votes with a Bob Rae led Liberal party is probably a Harper wet-dream. (In fact, I can't for the life of me figure why the Conservatives are currently running anti-Rae commercials. If anything, they should be convincing him to hang around for a while.) "_

this quote looks modest at first glance, but i think it accurately calls the tone of the whole next 4 years. To the Romans, watching the ndp fight the liberals to the death in the arena will be colosseum entertainment.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> Carver, for your mental and spiritual stability, I would recommend finding another hobby than politics.


It's not a hobby, carving is my hobby. Politics is my passion. I hate <everyone on the current list>, but unfortunately, I can't do anything about
them for the next 3 years. 



> A strong NDP fighting for votes with a Bob Rae led Liberal party is probably a Harper wet-dream. (In fact, I can't for the life of me figure why the Conservatives are currently running anti-Rae commercials. If anything, they should be convincing him to hang around for a while.) After all, as the population ages they have a tendency to become more fiscally Conservative.


Ok,you have a point Spidey. Inasmuch as I don't like Herr Harper, I dislike Rae even worse, for the damage he did while he was NDP premier of Ontario.
Now he has switched colours..who cares! He is a has been. At least Mucklair is a newby in the House of Commons,and we shall soon see if he is
made of the mettle he claims he is and steps up to the plate.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> To the Romans, watching the ndp fight the liberals to the death in the arena will be colosseum entertainment.


??? It ain't gonna happen.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> 1. I can't for the life of me figure why the Conservatives are currently running anti-Rae commercials.
> 2. Unless Harper commits murder (literally and not figuratively) and is found with blood spattered all over his clothing, we will probably have a Conservative government for a long time to come.


1. Hihi, but the commercial is sooooooooo funny; it makes me LMAO.  

"Damn Stephen Harper! He wins either way."
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...iberals-worried-about-the-bob-rae-attack-ads/

2. Could not agree with you more!

*Carverman:* when will you let us see some of your carvings?! Politics is my passion too!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

carverman said:


> ??? It ain't gonna happen.


carve this is exactly what *is* going to happen

spidey was very prescient


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I've been thinking a little more about what the Conservative's have to gain by running Rae ads when we are nowhere close to an election and Rae would make a very vulnerable opponent. I think I've come up with the answer and I suspect that there is a little bit of Machiavellianism in their strategy. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie, "A Christmas Story" where the code of the school yard was that you couldn't back down from a "triple-dog dare" and keep your pride intact. The result being that one of the children couldn't back down when "triple-dog dared" to stick his tong to a metal pole in the middle of winter. Well I think the Liberals have just been "triple-dog dared" to run with Rae.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Well if they (the Grits) choose to do so, it will be at their peril. Too many Ontarioans still around that remember the "Rae Days" and how he and his NDP gov't decided to "spend their way" out of the recession back then. He didn't have a clue on fiscal policy then and he doesn't have a clue on fiscal policy now. Like I said before , Rae is a "has been", he had his chance and he blew it. Of course "Iggy" wasn't a lot better, because being Harvard prof, he would have some weird ideas gleaned from the US on how to run a country. 
The Torys have a sizeable war chest and they will do their dirt to undermine him when the time comes. 

At least Harper, such as he is, does have some kind of track record..so far.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Spidey said:


> stick his tong to a metal pole in the middle of winter.


Was he a Chinese gang _member_?


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Nemo2 said:


> Was he a Chinese gang _member_?



Wow. That was a horrible spelling mistake.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Spidey said:


> I've been thinking a little more about what the Conservative's have to gain by running Rae ads when we are nowhere close to an election and Rae would make a very vulnerable opponent.


Because Rae is a capable politician, he could rebuild the Liberals and have them a real threat. The Liberals are also relatively mainstream.

The NDP success was just a protest vote, they're too far left to be a serious threat, and it isn't like NDP voters are going to swing to the CPC just because they don't like their leader.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> Because Rae is a capable politician, he could rebuild the Liberals and have them a real threat. The Liberals are also relatively mainstream.
> 
> The NDP success was just a protest vote, they're too far left to be a serious threat, and it isn't like NDP voters are going to swing to the CPC just because they don't like their leader.


Despite my leanings in the Conservative direction, I don't think that the current situation with the Liberal party is a healthy one. I believe we get much better governance when there is a strong opposition. I don't believe that Rae can get any traction in the West whatsoever and he carries too much baggage in Ontario. It's the time for the Liberals to pull out all the stops and try to get someone who has wide appeal across Canada. (John Manley would have been gold but these days he sounds more Conservative than Liberal.) It's also time to stop anointing leaders and actually use the democratic process to have a leadership convention. If these things do not happen the Liberals will remain in 3rd place for a long time to come.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

spidey i don't have any leanings in the conservative direction but i think all of your insights into the current liberal predicament are bang on.

but even if the liberals pull out all the stops who can they find as national leader. Trudeau is too young. So sorry but john manley who.

there was a liberal leadership candidate in the ignatieff naming convention named somebody kennedy. A toronto area riding. I thought he had promising eventual leadership possibilities. But his name has since disappeared.

you are right, they have to groom someone. Until then all is lost.

this imho is precisely why mulcair has such a fantastic opportunity. Only 24 hours into the budget & he's already looking good.

it may turn out, over the course of the next couple years, that the liberals could do far worse than marrying the ndp. Especially an ndp that manages to shed its skin as pro-union, heavy ontario, big tax, which process is already well underway.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> Especially an ndp that manages to shed its skin as pro-union, heavy ontario, big tax, which process is already well underway.


I think this is bang-on as well, with the caveat that my understanding of Canadian politics is still rudimentary. The NPD of tomorrow is likely to be nothing like the NPD of yesterday, and Mulcair is the right person to bring about that transition and lead it forward. 

Despite what the pundits and surveys may have said, I still am not convinced that the NPDs wins in the last election were a protest vote; I live in Québec and have a lot of friends here who always voted for the Bloc, and honestly not one of them has ever told me they voted against Duceppe. They voted NPD because they were attracted to Jack and his ideas, and once the groundswell began it just took off. I think Mulcair has a quite a bit of respect here as well, especially since he quit the widely disliked Charest government over a matter of principle (Charest overrode Mulcair's denial of a development permit for a bunch of condos that were to be built on a wetland. The project went forward, Mulcair quit in protest).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Manley was always on the right wing of the Liberal Party. He is my kind of Liberal. A non-ideological fiscal conservative and social libertarian. I would be happy to have him as a Liberal leader and PM.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I have my doubts that the NDP will ever be far enough right and absent soft-headed unionism for them to be palatable to me. They are currently ideological/dogmatic, and shedding that ideology will likely cause an eventual splintering of the party (as happened with PCs and Reform).


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