# StudioTax



## bettrave (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi,

Do anyone use this software for income taxes?

Thank you.


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## stardancer (Apr 26, 2009)

I have used it and it is okay. Unfortunately whenever it updates the display goes screwy (maybe just my laptop) and I have to uninstall then reinstall. Right now I Am using Simple Tax as I don’t have time to mess around with it


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I have used it for a long time. At first as a check on another tax program, but for some time now as my only tax program. 

Studio Tax has evolved over the years and is quite acceptable but not overly user friendly. The display does not fit my laptop properly unless I change the screen resolution. I don't do that because it messes up other uses, so live with the poor display. 

I used to use Tax Freeway. It's was not bad. Haven't tried Simple Tax. Used to pay $50 for Quicktax or whatever it is called, but haven't done that for years.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

agent99 said:


> ... Used to pay $50 for Quicktax or whatever it is called, but haven't done that for years.


Now called TurboTax. The "Standard" version is all a person needs and can be bought for about $29.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I do 3 returns with UFile @ $19 on sale, but also use Studio Tax for 'what if' analysis. Studio Tax is perfectly fine but likely a bit cumbersome especially for newbies. Turbo Tax and Ufile with their Interview setups work best for newbies....for the cost of a pizza and beer for 2 at BP.

I won't use web based packages like Simple Tax. The software has to reside on my PC.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Studio tax is great for anyone even remotely interested in how the taxes are done and/or the math, and/or playing around with scenarios, as it displays the digitized versions of all the exact CRA forms and you can follow through from one to the other and view how everything is determined by the CRA.

I've never had a single tax return have any adjustment made or reassessment by the CRA since using the netfile and Studio tax. The refund is always exactly what Studio tax says it will be, down to the penny.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Same is true for the UFile and pretty much any tax software I have used.

The few times there has been an adjustment from CRA over the years, about 99% of the time it is something I missed or fat fingered the numbers from my copy of the form. 

The one exception is where the CRA clerk used my pension adjustment reversal (PAR) to replace my existing RRSP contribution room instead of adding to it. This triggered a bogus RRSP over-contribution penalty that ran over multiple years, adding to penalty value.


Cheers


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## canadollar (Mar 18, 2018)

First I tried GenuTax and was annoyed to no end with its neverending sequence of screens, one question at a time.

Then I tried Studio Tax and loved it since it mimics the actual return forms.

Yes, it is not the most user-friendly, but I can live with it.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

StudioTax is great for anyone that has filled out the original forms in the past ... yes, it was once done without the aid of computers!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Strange but true fact ... some that work with computers every day do not use tax software, use a spreadsheet for the math and use the paper forms. :rolleyes2:

A really small number use calculators and the paper forms.


Back on topic ... I have used StudioTax for scenarios but will likely add in doing the download of the forms CRA has.


Cheers


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> Back on topic ... I have used StudioTax for scenarios but will likely add in doing the download of the forms CRA has.


BTW, I used the CRA download data for the first time this year and it worked out fine. It missed a T3 but it wasn't issued yet and I just manually entered it when it arrived a month later. All of other numbers matched up fine with my paper/electronic copies.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> I do 3 returns with UFile @ $19 on sale, but also use Studio Tax for 'what if' analysis. Studio Tax is perfectly fine but likely a bit cumbersome especially for newbies. Turbo Tax and Ufile with their Interview setups work best for newbies....for the cost of a pizza and beer for 2 at BP.


Studio Tax does have the equivalent of an Interview - They call it a Wizard. Doesn't cover everything, but does get user started on their return.

For videos on how to use Studio Tax. https://www.studiotax.com/en/?page=12


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

cainvest said:


> BTW, I used the CRA download data for the first time this year and it worked out fine.


Should be useful for those doing individual returns, but not useful when a couple is splitting investment income.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Used Studio Tax to submit to CRA today. I always check our slips against those listed in our CRA accounts and against what we submitted in the prior year. We cannot do autofill because we split some income. Even prior to doing our own tax I always did a pro forma to ensure that what I gave the acct. was complete. 

I typically do the the tax, let is sit for for a week or so, then revisit it and do the final check, ticking and bopping, prior to our CRA efile. This year is an exception. I pay, DW gets a refund even though we are both required to make installment payments throughout the year. 

Don't mind paying tax. We are truly blessed with the life that we have in Canada. You really notice it when you travel to other less fortunate countries.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

ian said:


> Don't mind paying tax. We are truly blessed with the life that we have in Canada. You really notice it when you travel to other less fortunate countries.


We too feel that way about our Fed/Prov taxes. We get good value for those. 

But not so much for our municipal taxes. We pay $7000 pa and have no sewers or water. Just roads and garbage pick-up (which we pay extra for). Down here is SC where we winter, municipal taxes are a small fraction of what we pay.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

cainvest said:


> BTW, I used the CRA download data for the first time this year and it worked out fine. It missed a T3 but it wasn't issued yet and I just manually entered it when it arrived a month later. All of other numbers matched up fine with my paper/electronic copies.


I plan to use the download CRA forms in Studio Tax as a check on whether I have received everything.

I suppose I may go with the CRA forms, if I decide it's easy enough to reconcile the per company T3 forms that CRA sends to the tax software versus the fewer, rolled up T3 forms the broker publishes. I also have a problem with the 2017 T4 form where version forwarded to CPP has less than the maximum pensionable earnings while the payroll company provided one reports the maximum pensionable earnings.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

agent99 said:


> Should be useful for those doing individual returns, but not useful when a couple is splitting investment income.


??? ... or are you saying that StudioTax does not provide as "what percentage is yours" choice for the T forms?


Cheers


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Now called TurboTax. The "Standard" version is all a person needs and can be bought for about $29.


I wonder why the the "Premier" version is recomended for one with stock investments? Is the standard version just as good for stocks and dividends?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Pluto said:


> I wonder why the the "Premier" version is recomended for one with stock investments? Is the standard version just as good for stocks and dividends?


Because it costs you a lot more. I've used Standard over the years for schedule 3 events, stocks, real estate sales. rental income, etc. 
The only difference according to their own site is, _"Expert guidance on investment income and expenses, and rental property income and expenses"._ So if you can get your guidance somewhere else, Premier is not necessary.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> ??? ... or are you saying that StudioTax does not provide as "what percentage is yours" choice for the T forms?


Sure it does; not sure what agent99 is referring to. I use StudioTax, and we split income. It also has an 'optimizer' to help you do it.


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## habsfan59 (Oct 23, 2012)

I have been a user of TurboTax for quite a while (and still do..!) and quite often over the years, I gave StudioTax a quick try/test just to play with it. I realize that my level of familiarity with StudioTax is minimal (the GUI is quite a challenge) but I could never get the same return number as I get with TurboTax. I suspect that I am not entering the data correctly (especially pension splitting) in StudioTax, but the software is not making it easy to correct/find mistake.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Retired Peasant said:


> Sure it does; not sure what agent99 is referring to. I use StudioTax, and we split income. It also has an 'optimizer' to help you do it.


Thanks ... I haven't had to use either so I wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Retired Peasant said:


> Sure it does; not sure what agent99 is referring to. I use StudioTax, and we split income. It also has an 'optimizer' to help you do it.


I was talking about using the CRA T-slips that are in MyAccount at CRA. Some may be in one spouses name, some in the others. I have not tried using those with StudioTax. Maybe they can be split when doing a joint return? Anyway, I find it easier to just use the paper slips for input.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Looks like StudioTax is now charging $15 for a license for the software. I'm curious if that changes anyone's opinion on it, or their plans to use it for the next year.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> Looks like StudioTax is now charging $15 for a license for the software. I'm curious if that changes anyone's opinion on it, or their plans to use it for the next year.


Yes, it does. I will seek other no-cost versions. 

anybody use any of the products on this page?





__





File your taxes online: Certified tax software - Canada.ca


Listed are the NETFILE-certified software products for the 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 tax years.




www.canada.ca


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

My opinion remains the same but I will certainly look at other options before paying them. I wonder what maintenance they're doing besides keeping up with tax code changes as it has some annoying issues which have been around for years. Acceptable in a free product, less so when asked to pay for it.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> Looks like StudioTax is now charging $15 for a license for the software. I'm curious if that changes anyone's opinion on it, or their plans to use it for the next year.


I would have thought that those who found Studio Tax useful and used it for their tax returns, would have at least made a small contribution after filing?

We did, so the $15 makes little difference and I will continue to use it. I always found it suited us better than the more expensive commercial software like Turbotax, Ufile etc. In the past, I used Taxfreeway. Like Studiotax, you could use it free and just had to pay of you wanted to print or efile your return. You could save $5 by switching to Taxfreeway 

Money posted the government site that lists all free and paid approved tax software:




__





File your taxes online: Certified tax software - Canada.ca


Listed are the NETFILE-certified software products for the 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 tax years.




www.canada.ca





Some of the free offerings are on-line only - Not sure I would want to use those.

For those who use Windows and object to the $15 (or wish to try another donation based offering), Genutax may be worth looking at. A good friend of mine with an accounting background, uses it for personal and small business returns, I believe.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I should have added this to my original posting, but I'm wondering if the fact that Wealthsimple bought StudioTax last year has anything to do with it. There were some changes in the TOS at the time.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

$15 for 20 returns is not a big deal as I used to donate $10. Make sure to find out who has access of your data before looking for a free software.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm OK with paying $15. What's more important is, does the software still run stand-alone, and can it be used offline?

I don't want to use network based systems where everything is entered online on the company's servers (high risk of data theft). One reason I liked StudioTax is that I could run it offline and store the returns in a local file.



bgc_fan said:


> I should have added this to my original posting, but I'm wondering if the fact that Wealthsimple bought StudioTax last year has anything to do with it. There were some changes in the TOS at the time.


That article says SimpleTax, not StudioTax. The StudioTax web site still says 'BHOK IT Consulting' at the bottom, as it did before.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> That article says SimpleTax, not StudioTax. The StudioTax web site still says 'BHOK IT Consulting' at the bottom, as it did before.


Ah, my mistake, that's probably why I didn't think of it in the first place.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

agent99 said:


> I would have thought that those who found Studio Tax useful and used it for their tax returns, would have at least made a small contribution after filing?


I'm sure some never get around to making their contribution and forget about it. 


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I'm OK with paying $15. What's more important is, does the software still run stand-alone, and can it be used offline?


I don't see anything that suggests that part has changed.

There's talk of the OS needed, the .NET framework being used so I suspect the change is requiring a fee be paid to print/netFile.
You should be able to download, install and test that it works offline without paying the fee.


Cheers


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

bgc_fan said:


> I should have added this to my original posting, but I'm wondering if the fact that Wealthsimple bought StudioTax last year has anything to do with it. There were some changes in the TOS at the time.


That link says that Wealthsimple bought Simple Tax. I recall reading about that last year. Where does it say they bought Studio Tax?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

agent99 said:


> That link says that Wealthsimple bought Simple Tax. I recall reading about that last year. Where does it say they bought Studio Tax?


I misread. My mistake.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

i haven’t look at the pay requirement other than to see it allows 20 returns. Do you think it will allow multiple returns on different PCs? I assume you’ll create an account and then it will allow you to switch PCs. I do my parents’ returns and they live in a different city,


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

I have never paid anybody or anything to do my taxes. I have always done my own since the days you picked up the package from the post office or mailed to you.

Then when CRA stopped publishing the package and forced everybody to file electronically, the first thing I thought was that CRA should provide their own free software to file the return instead of making us pay for somebody else's software. Thirty different software packages means potentially thirty types of different mistakes from thirty different sources.

Luckily, I found Studio Tax and except for the glitches I found from year to year, it was good enough for me. After all, it was free.

If Studio Tax is charging money now, they had better have fixed all the bugs that I had found before.

I hope that if I pay for a licence, I can let my sons (who still live with us) to use the licence for their downloads too.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Tostig said:


> I have never paid anybody or anything to do my taxes. I have always done my own since the days you picked up the package from the post office or mailed to you.


If you don't feel Studio Tax or other low cost programs are worth $10-15, why don't you order the package from CRA and do your taxes manually as you said you did before? If you don't have a drop off center nearby, you will presumably have to absorb the cost of postage?





__





Tax packages for all years - Canada.ca


General income tax and benefits packages from 1985 to 2013. Each package includes the guide, the return, and related schedules, and the provincial information and forms.




www.canada.ca


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

agent99 said:


> If you don't feel Studio Tax or other low cost programs are worth $10-15, why don't you order the package from CRA and do your taxes manually as you said you did before? If you don't have a drop off center nearby, you will presumably have to absorb the cost of postage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that misses the point. Why should any Canadian need to pay anything to file taxes, even if the price is modest? Seems to me, as Canadians, we should be demanding simple, straight forward, single page submission at worst.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

afulldeck said:


> I think that misses the point. Why should any Canadian need to pay anything to file taxes, even if the price is modest? Seems to me, as Canadians, we should be demanding simple, straight forward, single page submission at worst.


Yes. Thank you.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

afulldeck said:


> I think that misses the point. Why should any Canadian need to pay anything to file taxes, even if the price is modest? Seems to me, as Canadians, we should be demanding simple, straight forward, single page submission at worst.


I didn't miss the point - You don't have to pay anything at all if you don't want to. Nobody insists that you do. What you are paying for when using 3rd party software, is convenience and accuracy. If you so wish, you can download any one of several tax programs, do your taxes off-line without cost. Then fill the numbers in on a paper return and hand deliver it to a drop off location. Or skip the software step and do the return by hand as we all used to do. So I don't know what the beef is.

I agree it would be beneficial if the tax system was simplified, but that's another subject.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I believe the paper forms are still available at Canada Post offices.

I've used StudioTax for the past 6 years, since I began investing in stocks in 2014. I figured it would simplify things a bit. I had only used the paper forms prior to that.

I like the software. I often send $10 or $15 their way, so this change doesn't bother me.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

agent99 said:


> Then fill the numbers in on a paper return and hand deliver it to a drop off location. Or skip the software step and do the return by hand as we all used to do. So I don't know what the beef is.


The beef is paying for software that is really just a spreadsheet. I'm for a better system, not the status quo.


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## Noob888 (Jun 27, 2018)

Studio Tax isn't the most user friendly application available to do your taxes. Just compare it to the premium and online versions, you'll know what I mean. Besides, most people inherently don't like change so they keep using the same old quasi-junk they have because they're used to it. Studio Tax hasn't changed their interface since it's inception back in 2004.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Noob888 said:


> Studio Tax hasn't changed their interface since it's inception back in 2004?


Have you been using it since then? The interface is not the 'same', maybe 'similar'? I would think that would be a plus for most users. The underlying program has changed quite a bit behind that interface. 

Doesn't hold your hand, if that is what you need. 

I long ago gave up on paying $50 or $60 for Quicktax (predecessor of Turbo tax)


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## Noob888 (Jun 27, 2018)

agent99 said:


> Have you been using it since then? The interface is not the 'same', maybe 'similar'? I would think that would be a plus for most users. The underlying program has changed quite a bit behind that interface.


Of course, I have because it was free. I emailed support on many occasions and they're as belligerent, defensive, aloof, dismissive and unforthcoming as their Team Studio Tax fanboys and McDonald Trump supporters. We live in strange times, indeed.

If one doesn't suffer from confirmation bias, they will notice there is ample feedback and complaints on its interface and non-intuitive application in general.

But I get it, "many" people don't like change, They are accustomed to doing things the way they always have. They ignore the possibility of being closed-minded and failing to realize there might be a simpler and easier way. I find it's so easy to make an error with ST and difficult to check your work. It's not easy on one's eyes.

This pandemic has brought to light how we are very divided and are thinking very differently. There will always be those who love to do things in a complicated way because they're used to it. Take for example Linux users. I tried Linux and my brain was spinning just trying to do something basic.

Applications need updating, not just under the hood. Team Studio Tax are dinosaurs stuck in their world along with their missionaries. There are major reasons why (in most cases) applications rarely stay the same visually and feature-wise. From my experience, Team Studio Tax only believe in changing things under the hood. With their fanbase, they will continue and never modernize. Just maybe...by charging a fee now, this might give them an incentive to modernize their interface because obviously, their donation metric wasn't working.


agent99 said:


> Doesn't hold your hand, if that is what you need.


Excuse me? There are other applications that have a night and day different easy to use interface than ST's non-intuitive clunky one. And their wizards are 100x better than ST's.


agent99 said:


> I long ago gave up on paying $50 or $60 for Quicktax (predecessor of Turbo tax)


There were always free or [much] less expensive options available. If I had to pay $60 for a single return, I'd use H&R Block or a freemium volunteer service.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Noob888 said:


> Of course, I have because it was free.


Seems you have had a long free run with Studio Tax if you have used it since 2004. Took you a long time to decide it was not a good application 

All of your posts CMF so far have been about Studio Tax. May be time to move on and take part in some of the other CMF discussions?

And, let us know which free tax program you choose and how you like it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Noob888 said:


> ... But I get it, "many" people don't like change, They are accustomed to doing things the way they always have. They ignore the possibility of being closed-minded and failing to realize there might be a simpler and easier way.


And if you weren't so focused on how your favorite tax software speeds up whatever it has for you, you might have noticed that for some - changing tax software makes an insignificant difference for their needs. If there's no gain - why would one want to switch?




Noob888 said:


> ... I find it's so easy to make an error with ST and difficult to check your work. It's not easy on one's eyes.


Having switched something like five times, I'd be interested in a more detailed example. I haven't found any of them easy on the eyes where the potential for errors and methods of checking for errors have pretty much been identical.




Noob888 said:


> ... This pandemic has brought to light how we are very divided and are thinking very differently. There will always be those who love to do things in a complicated way because they're used to it.


It took a pandemic to notice that people value different things? Wow.




Noob888 said:


> ... There are major reasons why (in most cases) applications rarely stay the same visually and feature-wise. From my experience, Team Studio Tax only believe in changing things under the hood.


And the most common reason is to be touting new features that only a few use while neglecting all sorts of other efficiencies. It's not like change is only tied to improvements.




Noob888 said:


> ... With their fanbase, they will continue and never modernize. Just maybe...by charging a fee now, this might give them an incentive to modernize their interface because obviously, their donation metric wasn't working.


Their fan base not wanting changes and people wanting to avoid changes is going to mean the change on fees triggers more change?

Doesn't seem logical IMO but whatever.


Cheers


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

agent99 said:


> Seems you have had a long free run with Studio Tax if you have used it since 2004.
> 
> All of your posts CMF so far have been about Studio Tax. May be time to move on and take part in some of the other CMF discussions?
> 
> And, let us know which free tax program you choose and how you like it.


I'm beginning to think Noob888 works for a competitor, and just here to diss StudioTax.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Retired Peasant said:


> I'm beginning to think Noob888 works for a competitor, and just here to diss StudioTax.


If Noob888 is working for a competitor, I hope it's the CRA and there will be a free downloadable tax standardized software package for all to use.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Tostig said:


> If Noob888 is working for a competitor, I hope it's the CRA and there will be a free downloadable tax standardized software package for all to use.


Who knows, CRA may have Phoenix working on one!


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

LoL ... there's an optimist!!


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

afulldeck said:


> The beef is paying for software that is really just a spreadsheet. I'm for a better system, not the status quo.


Well don't pay for it then. Make your own spreadsheet if it's so easy.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

I worked for a while on a contract for the Netherlands tax office. They did a offline tax program based on Adobe PDF forms that was astonishingly sophisticated. Maybe not up to full Studio/Win/Turbo/Can-tax, but able to do the simplified taxes with "standard" deductions. The tax system in the Netherlands is, I think, simpler than here, with virtually everything taxed at source.

Around that time, the South African's had a government authored tax program written in Macromedia Flash.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Well don't pay for it then. Make your own spreadsheet if it's so easy.


I don't know why you want to give CRA a pass for such bad work. We pay them, they don't pay us. They should falling over themselves to make this easier. Its done in other parts of the world why are we stuck in the back waters????


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

afulldeck said:


> I don't know why you want to give CRA a pass for such bad work. We pay them, they don't pay us. They should falling over themselves to make this easier. Its done in other parts of the world why are we stuck in the back waters????


There's definitely room for improvement. But after dealing with the IRS for the last 5 years, I can tell you that the CRA is miles ahead of the IRS. I've showed a couple American colleagues things I can do with the CRA portal that made their jaws drop.

It would be good, though, to have some default automatic tax return. Denmark and Sweden automatically prepare tax returns. If everything purely comes from tax slips, this is possible.

Do you admire Denmark and Sweden for their advanced government services, strong investment in their public service and well paid government employees? Maybe you would happily pay higher taxes to fund rock-solid government services, as they do in these wonderful countries.

I'll also assume you don't plan to vote Conservative any time soon, since this party is committed to aggressively cutting back government services, new programs, and staff.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

gardner said:


> Around that time, the South African's had a government authored tax program written in *Macromedia Flash*.


That likely wasn't a smart move! 

_



Adobe Flash is a discontinued multimedia software platform used for production of animations, Rich web applications, desktop applications, mobile apps, mobile games, and embedded web browser video players. Flash displays text, vector graphics, and raster graphics to provide animations, video games, and applications.

Click to expand...

_


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> It would be good, though, to have some default automatic tax return. Denmark and Sweden automatically prepare tax returns. If everything purely comes from tax slips, this is possible.


I know that some software has autofill by downloading the information from CRA. For most people that will probably satisfy 90% of their needs. In some cases, 100% if all they have is a T4. Things like capital gains and losses need to be done manually since it's personal record-keeping, unless we're talking about reporting from mutual funds or ETFs. There's always going to be some sort of outlier situation. Personally, I don't think that the tax returns are particularly onerous, the only way to really make it easier is simplifying taxes (and I don't mean flat taxes as that's a red herring), but watch for what you wish for. For example, the easiest way would be to count all income the same (dividends, capital gains, work income, etc), so you just add that all up and base your tax calculation on that. But I'm going to bet no one here is going to go for that sort of change.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

james4beach said:


> There's definitely room for improvement. But after dealing with the IRS for the last 5 years, I can tell you that the CRA is miles ahead of the IRS. I've showed a couple American colleagues things I can do with the CRA portal that made their jaws drop.
> 
> It would be good, though, to have some default automatic tax return. Denmark and Sweden automatically prepare tax returns. If everything purely comes from tax slips, this is possible.
> 
> ...


Necessity is the mother of invention. I think the government needs a hair cut. It would improve the service.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

afulldeck said:


> Necessity is the mother of invention. I think the government needs a hair cut. It would improve the service.


Ah I see. So you want to cut back on the staff and funding of these departments, while simultaneously demanding new services and capabilities.

In that case, you're not going to get what they have in Sweden and Denmark.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

agent99 said:


> That likely wasn't a smart move!


Flash only JUST went away. And it long since morphed into Flex and later Air, for this sort of target application. Air is still a thing.









Adobe AIR - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Ah I see. So you want to cut back on the staff and funding of these departments, while simultaneously demanding new services and capabilities.
> 
> In that case, you're not going to get what they have in Sweden and Denmark.


A fatalism, its so sad its so deeply embedded in our country's mind set. Were's the grit, the smarts, the pride, the ingenuity of our people and by extension our public service? Anyone can be a manager with unlimited resources, but the best, the ones who excel, are those that achieve the new goals with their hands tied behind their proverbial "constrained resources" back. Constraint is a prime mover for positive change- not the unlimited resources. When the resources are unlimited there is no need to change. We continue, as is, on our merry way. When resources are *limited-- one is forced to change in order to pursue better. * Under the current GoC ideology with their new MMT unlimited resources there is no reason to change. I say cut back and demand better.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

afulldeck said:


> A fatalism, its so sad its so deeply embedded in our country's mind set. Were's the grit, the smarts, the pride, the ingenuity of our people and by extension our public service? Anyone can be a manager with unlimited resources, but the best, the ones who excel, are those that achieve the new goals with their hands tied behind their proverbial "constrained resources" back. Constraint is a prime mover for positive change- not the unlimited resources. When the resources are unlimited there is no need to change. We continue, as is, on our merry way. When resources are *limited-- one is forced to change in order to pursue better. * Under the current GoC ideology with their new MMT unlimited resources there is no reason to change. I say cut back and demand better.


Translation: you want a fleet of people to do the hard work of adding new capabilities to the system, with all the man-hours that comes with doing that work (and its testing and refinement), but you don't want to pay for any of that.

"Were's the grit, the smarts" - indeed.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Translation: you want a fleet of people to do the hard work of adding new capabilities to the system, with all the man-hours that comes with doing that work (and its testing and refinement), but you don't want to pay for any of that.


No, I think he has a point. The government has too much inertia and needs disruption to improve. covid-19 has shown us that. A great example is access to a doctor around here. For decades it has worked roughly in the same, inefficient way. Now comes the pandemic and in just a few weeks doctors are suddenly able to do appointments over the phone/internet. This greatly improves access for users with little extra cost. Without that major kick in the rear end, we probably wouldn't have had that for another 10-20 years, and several billions. It took longer than that just to get our medical file online and I'm not even sure that works correctly yet.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

off.by.10 said:


> No, I think he has a point. The government has too much inertia and needs disruption to improve. covid-19 has shown us that. A great example is access to a doctor around here. For decades it has worked roughly in the same, inefficient way. Now comes the pandemic and in just a few weeks doctors are suddenly able to do appointments over the phone/internet. This greatly improves access for users with little extra cost. Without that major kick in the rear end, we probably wouldn't have had that for another 10-20 years, and several billions. It took longer than that just to get our medical file online and I'm not even sure that works correctly yet.


Thank you. Your point is well served. Its ridiculous that medical files and solutions are still in distress. It reminds me of the early 80's when commercial email systems had a tough time communicating among disparate commercial systems- only fixed in the late 90's with the adoption of POP, IMAP via vendors through IETF rfc's. This medical file adoption problem should not exist, its a relic of having too much resource in areas that needs to adapt, but the bureaucracy is holding on to the old ways keeping expenses high because change is not required.


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Translation: you want a fleet of people to do the hard work of adding new capabilities to the system, with all the man-hours that comes with doing that work (and its testing and refinement), but you don't want to pay for any of that.
> 
> "Were's the grit, the smarts" - indeed.


No. I want less people doing the work-to which I would be willing to pay. These must be motivated individuals up to the challenge. 

This is a quote from a piece in HBR from 2019 Why Constraints Are Good for Innovation

"...As a simple illustration of the principle, consider GE Healthcare’s MAC 400 Electrocardiograph (ECG), which revolutionized rural access to medical care. The product was the outcome of a formidable set of constraints imposed on GE engineers: develop an ECG device that boasts the latest technology, costs no more than $1 per scan, is ultra portable to reach rural communities (i.e, should be lightweight and fit into a backpack), and is battery operated. The engineers were given just *18 months* and *a budget of $500,000 *– a very modest budget by GE’s standards, given that development of its predecessor cost $5.4 million. Our research suggests that GE engineers were not successful despite these constraints, but _because_ of them. Constraints can foster innovation when they represent a motivating challenge and focus efforts on a more narrowly defined way forward...."

Now with this thread we are only talking about software....


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

off.by.10 said:


> The government has too much inertia and needs disruption to improve. covid-19 has shown us that. A great example is access to a doctor around here. For decades it has worked roughly in the same, inefficient way.


I wouldn't say it's a government thing. It's more of a human nature thing. Think of curb-side pickup, and click-n-pick up type arrangements that stores are offering now. The services are more convenient for the consumers (assuming you just want specific items ahead of time), but it took COVID to add this to retail offerings due to necessity. 

Unless there is an external pressure to change things, people are just going to go ahead with "good enough", until it doesn't work.

As for telehealth and electronic medical data, those have been in the process for years. It's just that events are making them more pertinent.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I wouldn't say it's a government thing. It's more of a human nature thing. Think of curb-side pickup, and click-n-pick up type arrangements that stores are offering now. The services are more convenient for the consumers (assuming you just want specific items ahead of time), but it took COVID to add this to retail offerings due to necessity.
> 
> Unless there is an external pressure to change things, people are just going to go ahead with "good enough", until it doesn't work.
> 
> As for telehealth and electronic medical data, those have been in the process for years. It's just that events are making them more pertinent.


I've been using "curbside pickup" for years at
Best Buy
Home Hardware
Canadian Tire
Walmart.

The only one I hadn't used before lockdown was
Scholars choice
ToysR Us


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Bah, just noticed this thread.. I guess I'll have to suck it up and pay the man. $15 seems the right price though. Pay it and move on.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

peterk said:


> Bah, just noticed this thread.. I guess I'll have to suck it up and pay the man. $15 seems the right price though. Pay it and move on.


You don't have to actually pay until you are ready to do final printing or Netfile. Up until then you can use the program and get your return ready to file.

It seems Studio Tax for 2020 is now ready for download: StudioTax - Canadian Personal Income Tax Software. Can't imagine completing return on phone, but Apple iOS and Android versions are still free.

PS: Just downloaded and installed.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Small Canadian IT company, with a good product that's cheaper than the competition.
I've used it for years.. I'm a big fan.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Small Canadian IT company, with a good product that's cheaper than the competition.
> I've used it for years.. I'm a big fan.


Yup. They've played a good long-game. I've been using them for years for free. I guess I'm stuck now and will have to become a happy customer.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

I don't want an online solution so that leaves few options. Many others in a similar price range do not handle the Quebec return. That probably means I'll put up with the small annoyances once again.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

The 2022 uncertified version is now available for download.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Happy to pay the $15. Money well spent. It works for us...especially the Optimizer.

Early in December I fired up our 2021 Studio Tax edition and did a pro forma tax return in order to understand our respective potential tax liabilities and whether to remit the full installment that the CRA was requesting. Doing pro forma returns in late Nov, early Dec. has been part of our regular tax planning exercise..

It is a tax planning tool as well as a tax reporting tool for us. A great deal of utility for 2 people....$15 total.


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