# Trudeau failed victory lap



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Well it's clear to me that Trudeau expected a majority, wanted a victory lap and thanks for all his hard work.

He must be distraught, he ditched the new National Holiday he rushed into being so he could spend time with his family. 
I guess that's how he related to his predecessors ripping children away from their families and abusing and killing them.
Never mind

His heart clearly isn't in politics anymore, he's not even pretending. It's time to step down.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

While I agree, it won't change anything


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Yeah. Don't really see a reason for this.
It doesn't matter.
We know he is a racist. We know he fights indigenous children in court. Why would he reflect on a national holiday?


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey, he won the election. He doesn't really need to pretend that he actually cares or gives a **** anymore. It takes true arrogance to do what he did on the 30th and that is his victory dance.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

All the federal leaders agreed the day was for listening and reflecting upon the past, and they wouldn't indulge in press conferences or photo op situations.

They kept a low profile for the day, including Trudeau who after attending ceremonies the evening before, decided to travel from Ottawa with his family.

This is also the anniversary of the passing of Trudeau's father and younger brother, so there likely was a lot for him to reflect upon.

It looks like it was a last minute decision to go to Tofino, and Trudeau would have been wise to simply spend the day at home in Ottawa.

Most people agree the trip was bad optics for Trudeau and the conservative media has gone wild over it.

There doesn't appear to be the same outrage for Ontario's Premier Ford for popping up for photos after refusing to declare the day as a Provincial holiday.

I also wonder if Canadians will be comfortable with the media chasing the PM and his family everywhere, like the media stalked Princess Diana.

As Peter Mansbridge and his entire panel agreed........somebody in the PMO should have said.......traveling today is not a good idea.

Regardless of the facts, the deed is done and Trudeau will suffer a loss of standing because of it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I also think Trudeau should take a page out of Jean Chretien's handbook and do less public events and spend more time getting legislation passed.

As my dad said......Chretien is like a groundhog. He just pops up once a year or so and then gets back to work.

I think this is Trudeau's last term in office. His kids are growing up and he wants to spend more time with them. It is time to consider passing the torch.

Chrystia Freeland is waiting patiently in the wings.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

IF anyone actually thinks that this type of behavior is limited to Liberal politicians then think again.

It is not about the stripe. It is about the trough. Many of them are/were at it. Harper included. Federal and provincial.









Do as we say, not as we do? Trudeau, Scheer forced to defend family trips - Vancouver Island Free Daily


Scheer flew family to Ottawa, Trudeau joined his for Easter




www.vancouverislandfreedaily.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yes, and interim CPC leader Rona Ambrose tweeting about Trudeau's vacation to the Aga Khan's island, while not bothering to mention that she was on a billionaire's yacht for two weeks even as she tweeted negatively about Trudeau. She never did reveal it.....until it was discovered by the media later.

The river of hypocrisy runs wide and deep in politics.









Rona Ambrose vacations on friend’s yacht during Trudeau vacation scandal - National | Globalnews.ca


A spokesperson for Rona Ambrose has confirmed that the interim Conservative leader took a vacation on a billionaire’s yacht but says there are no ethical violations.




globalnews.ca


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Yes, and interim CPC leader Rona Ambrose tweeting about Trudeau's vacation to the Aga Khan's island, while not bothering to mention that she was on a billionaire's yacht for two weeks even as she tweeted negatively about Trudeau. She never did reveal it.....until it was discovered by the media later.
> 
> The river of hypocrisy runs wide and deep in politics.
> 
> ...


Was she the PM? 
Was she funneling millions in handouts to them?
Was it found to be an ethics violation?

and forget the "not a photo op", that's dumb.
He could have met privately without a photo op, but of course, why do the work if you don't get the credit.

Alternatively he could have done the photo op thing to "raise visibility".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The media chased Trudeau down to walking a beach in Tofino with his daughter. You think they wouldn't be following around to anywhere he went that day ?

If Trudeau had his picture taken anywhere, his haters would be screaming about that. If he stayed home all day....they would be screaming about that.

Some neo-Cons are so angry about losing the election, they are hyper ventilating.

I don't think O'Toole has a chance of remaining leader. He simply isn't hysterical enough for the hard core supporters.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The media chased Trudeau down to walking a beach in Tofino with his daughter. You think they wouldn't be following around to anywhere he went that day ?
> 
> If Trudeau had his picture taken anywhere, his haters would be screaming about that. If he stayed home all day....they would be screaming about that.
> 
> ...


That's only newsworthy because they said "he's not on the beach", but of course, he was on the beach, because well he was on vacation in Tofino.

Of course no matter how bad Trudeau is, he lies about everything, big and small. Really would there was no reason to claim he wasn't on the beach, he rented a BEACH HOUSE!

Actually if he just stayed at home and did nothing, I'd be glad. I think the strongest point in the COVID19 crisis is when Trudeau was under self isolation and not actually "working". So yes, if he was at home, doing nothing, that would be an improvement.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

sags said:


> The media chased Trudeau down to walking a beach in Tofino with his daughter. You think they wouldn't be following around to anywhere he went that day ?
> 
> If Trudeau had his picture taken anywhere, his haters would be screaming about that. If he stayed home all day....they would be screaming about that.
> 
> ...


I do not believe it is an O'Toole issue though some misguided people within the Conservative Party would like to think so because it covers up the real challenge.

The real problem IMHO is that O'Toole was trying his best to be a moderate leader of a party that is not moderate. A Party that is completely out of touch with Canadian voters. He will no doubt be penalized by some for trying to move the Conservative Party slightly to the left in order to give them even a chance at forming Government.

I just read an article this morning. There are 116 urban seats in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. Out of a total of 338 seats.

How many of those seats did the Conservatives win in the election? Eight. That number alone speaks volumes about the federal Conservative Party and how they are perceived.

They actually lost several seats in Vancouver urban ridings.

This is much, much more than just the Leader. They need to start fixing the Party at the ground level.

The other proof point. Just consider how many of the Conservative Party's most talented MP's have departed. Ambrose, Moore, Canon, Baird, Raitt,etc. Moderates who knew how to get the vote out in urban areas. And how many 'star' candidates they attracted over the last two elections. Zero. They are left with the likes of Poilievre, Bergen, Rempel Garner.

Is it really any surprise that the Conservatives have lost the last three elections?? The Liberals do not have to be particularly good in order to beat the Conservatives. They simply have to show up.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Virtue signalling eventually catches up to you when you are insincere. JT has nothing to gain anymore.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> This is much, much more than just the Leader. They need to start fixing the Party at the ground level.
> 
> The other proof point. Just consider how many of the Conservative Party's most talented MP's have departed. Ambrose, Moore, Canon, Baird, Raitt,etc.


But the Liberals got this same exodus, which hihgly talented MP's do they have left?



> Is it really any surprise that the Conservatives have lost the last three elections?? The Liberals do not have to be particularly good in order to beat the Conservatives. They simply have to show up.


Well right now it looks like Trudeau isn't even going to show up.. so maybe they'll have a chance.

The problem with the O'Toole campaign was simply he dropped his principles to get elected, and actual liberal minded conservatives didn't like it. All 3 major national parties have gone big spending central government planning of everything, and that's just a non starter for any liberal, and most moderate conservatives.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Are you kidding ? There is so much talent in the Liberal caucus that Trudeau doesn't know where to put them all. He might have to expand his cabinet.

_There is a strong roster of female MPs to fill the spots of defeated and departed ministers. Conspicuous by her presence at Trudeau's visit to the Kanata clinic was Jenna Sudds, an economist and former deputy mayor of Ottawa.

Sudds' presence may have been a simple consequence of geography (she is the MP-elect for Kanata-Carleton, where the clinic is located). But as a professional mother from the suburbs, Sudds also embodies a core part of the Liberal voting base.

Kanata MP-elect Jenna Sudds is another strong prospect for cabinet. (Natalia Goodwin/CBC)

Helena Jaczek in Markham-Stouffville is a former provincial health minister. Jennifer O'Connell in Pickering-Uxbridge and Pam Damoff in Oakville North-Burlington are parliamentary secretaries who fended off the Conservative push to break into the GTA.

Then there are the newcomers. Leah Taylor Roy is a Harvard-educated businesswoman who defeated the floor-crossing Leona Alleslev in Aurora-Oak Ridges-Richmond Hill. Rechie Valdez in Mississauga-Streetsville has a background in corporate banking and is the first Filipino woman ever elected to the House of Commons.

Valerie Bradford in Kitchener South-Hespeler worked in economic development. Vivian Lapointe in Sudbury held senior positions in the Ontario public service.

In Quebec, union leader Pascal St-Onge (who narrowly won Brome-Missisquoi) was featured in television ads along with prominent ministers such as Melanie Joly, Steven Guilbeault and Pablo Rodriguez.

Before she won Pontiac, Sophie Chatel worked for the federal finance department on international tax policy — including work with the OECD on taxing digital giants._



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-2021-election-cabinet-1.6194431


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The right wing media are unhappy the PMO doesn't publicize the PM's exact whereabouts 24/7.

Maybe they would like the exact coordinates so crackpots could use to track him or his family or send a drone.

Imagine a reporter in the US walking up to the President while he was out for a walk with his family. They would get shot dead before they got close.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Must be time for O'Toole to pull the plug on Trudeau. Take down the government in the next non-confidence vote to trigger a snap election nobody wants.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

We would end up exactly the same spot.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

In the last Parliament the Conservatives had to wait to see how the NDP were going to vote before they cast their votes.

The Cons didn't want to inadvertantly bring down the government. Trudeau didn't get a majority government but he does have a strong minority.

All he needs is support from one of the other parties to pass legislation.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The past Parliament showed that the NDP can be very effective in opposition when they hold the balance of power.

It was NDP leader Singh who demanded the CERB benefits be paid immediately, without a lot of red tape and delay.

It was the NDP who pushed for eliminating waiting times to qualify for EI benefits and to increase payments.

It was the NDP who continually pushed the Liberals for more support for out of work Canadians and small businesses.

Personally, I am happy with the election results. I think a party with a majority doesn't listen to proposals from other parties.

Harper was doing well enough to get re-elected after two minority governments, but his government crashed and burned after he got a majority.

All in all........most Canadians are happy with the Liberals in power and the NDP looking over their shoulder.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I think Trudeau is the worst thing that's happened to Canada. Doesn't matter, seems that most of Canada loves him and has put him in power again. Now he gets to enjoy taxpayer's funds again and continue Canada's downward spiral.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

So we can blame the NDP for the rushed and botched pandemic benefits plans and not the golden boy?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Mechanic said:


> I think Trudeau is the worst thing that's happened to Canada. Doesn't matter, seems that most of Canada loves him and has put him in power again. Now he gets to enjoy taxpayer's funds again and continue Canada's downward spiral.


I do not think that most of Canada loves him. 

I think it is a case of urban voters disliking O'Toole Conservatives more than they dislike Trudeau Liberals.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

ian said:


> I do not think that most of Canada loves him.
> 
> I think it is a case of urban voters disliking O'Toole Conservatives more than they dislike Trudeau Liberals.


Also, you are talking at 32% of votes with quite putrid turnout.
No matter how you do the math, you can't arrive at 'most'


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mechanic said:


> I think Trudeau is the worst thing that's happened to Canada. Doesn't matter, seems that most of Canada loves him and has put him in power again. Now he gets to enjoy taxpayer's funds again and continue Canada's downward spiral.


Trudeaus approval rating has been consistently below 50%.








Trudeau Tracker - Angus Reid Institute







angusreid.org





By what logic is that "most of Canada loves him".?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

That is an old poll.

Trudeau is much more popular now. He is probably at 75% approval now. Everybody loves a winner.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

a) that's not true
b) thought he is not a winner. Didn't you say there is no win unless you get 50%+ of votes and a majority? Clearly Trudeau is a loser


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> That is an old poll.
> 
> Trudeau is much more popular now. He is probably at 75% approval now. Everybody loves a winner.


The most recent data on that is less than 2 weeks old.

Also my point is that he's been below 50% for most of recent history. 

Of course you end your post with another unsubstantiated claim, because you're really bad at facts.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Truly sad to see those willing to defend him on this forum. There is no valid excuse for his recent behavior. I get supporting your party, but this dude needs to step down. Enough is enough already.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

He keeps stepping in it more and more.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some political columnists are writing that Trudeau may be contemplating stepping down and handing over the PM to Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland.

Trudeau could have his pick of ambassador positions and spend more time with his family. Maybe he would like to live in southern France for awhile.

A transfer of power now would give Freeland time to become the entrenched incumbent PM for the next election.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The challenge for the Liberals is that a good many of the people who voted for them were not specifically voting for the Liberal Party or for Justin Trudieau.

They were voting against the Conservative Party and Erin O'Toole.

The Liberal Party could become victims of this if the Conservative Party, with or without O'Toole, get their act together, adapt some new policies and platforms (not to mention consiistent) that appeal to voters, and attract some star candidates in urban riding across Canada. And run a decent election campaign.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I very much doubt that any future Conservative Party contender will campaign on vote suppressing slogans like 'Take Back Canada' or 'True Blue Conservative'. The Liberal election strategists must have been thrilled to see those slogans so close to the election.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Look at the front page of the Sun media and you will understand why voters are unimpressed with the anti-Trudeau attacks and vote Liberal.

Surfer boy ? Congratulating themselves for stalking the PM and his family ?

Calling the PM's RCMP security detail "goons" for protecting the PM from reporters chasing him on a beach ?

This is very distasteful example of journalism to anyone who isn't a hard core conservative.

Many voters don't want to reward or be associated with that kind of personal attacks.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

sags said:


> Many voters don't want to reward or be associated with that kind of personal attacks.


But it's what conservatives do best.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

And it isn't distasteful to lie in official agenda that you will be meeting with aboriginal people all day in Ottawa, while outright rejecting their invitation and instead using day that was supposed to be for mourning and reflection for family vacation at taxpayer's dime?
You seriously have a problem with journalist reporting that PM lied in official schedule and disrespected aboriginal population but don't have a problem with that?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

All the party leaders agreed there would be no press conferences, speeches, or official agenda items.

Trudeau had spent the previous day in meetings and attending an evening ceremony.

Trudeau should have stayed home in Ottawa, but that doesn't mean I would support the media stalking his family to a beach in Tofino.

Apparently, they came running up to him while he was walking on the beach. They are lucky they didn't get shot.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Don't lie on official schedules. Why is that so hard?
Root cause is Trudeau lying. Media isn't the problem. Lying PM is.

Media in Canada doesn't do enough to hold politicians accountable. This is a minor first step. Hopefully that continues and accountability gets stronger


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Trudeau should have stayed home in Ottawa, but that doesn't mean I would support the media stalking his family to a beach in Tofino.


No, he is free to go whereever he wants.
Media reporting that he's lying is newsworthy.



> Apparently, they came running up to him while he was walking on the beach. They are lucky they didn't get shot.


Huh?
It's not legal to shoot someone for walking, on public land.

it's insane that you think guns and violence is the answer to every problem.

PM lies about where he is -> shoot the reporter? What kind of person are you?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sure........just let random people walk up behind the PM and his family.

The official residence is also public land. Maybe you think people should be able to wander around inside anytime they feel like it too.

How does the PM security detail know these journalists weren't wackos with guns.......only a few feet from the PM of Canada ?

Aside from if Trudeau should have remained in Ottawa or not, this was clearly a breach of security by the RCMP.

There is no way random people should be allowed to be that close to the PM.

I am sure they are looking over the video footage and expect there will be some changes made.

If not, maybe Canada needs to bring up some US Secret Service agents to give some instructions on how to protect a world leader.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I listened to conservative Matt Gurney on Canada Talks, and they were talking about a focus group of Liberal voters after the election.

The people weren't necessary Liberal party members but people who did vote for the Liberals. The question was why they voted as they did.

The overwhelming response was the Liberal $10 a day daycare program. The Conservatives tax break was panned completely by the group.

Also interesting, according a recent poll, the covid pandemic is no longer the number one issue for Canadians. It is now second behind the environment.

People wondering why people vote for the Liberals, the choice clearly comes down to policies.

The gaffes and mistakes of party leaders have minimal impact on voter choices.

It is all about policy and if the rumors are correct the CPC caucus told O'Toole to focus on old right wing policies, they will continue to struggle.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

sags said:


> Sure........just let random people walk up behind the PM and his family.
> 
> The official residence is also public land. Maybe you think people should be able to wander around inside anytime they feel like it too.
> 
> ...


Maybe he checked official schedule and thought Trudeau is holding meetings with indigenous leaders in Ottawa as Canadian people were being told?
Was just really excited to find a dopple-ganger so ran up.

After all, official information given to Canadians was that Trudeau is in Ottawa holding meetings with indigenous leaders


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Sure........just let random people walk up behind the PM and his family.


No, that's why they have security.



> The official residence is also public land. Maybe you think people should be able to wander around inside anytime they feel like it too.


There is a difference between open public land, and a government building.



> How does the PM security detail know these journalists weren't wackos with guns.......only a few feet from the PM of Canada ?


By doing their jobs, unless they have a reason to believe there is a threat, use of lethal force isn't justified.
You can't just walk around with a gun shooting people saying "I thought they were a wacko with a gun who is going to shoot me".



> Aside from if Trudeau should have remained in Ottawa or not, this was clearly a breach of security by the RCMP.


Was he at risk?



> There is no way random people should be allowed to be that close to the PM.


Random people, who pose no discernable threat, should be able to travel in a public place without undo harrassment.



> If not, maybe Canada needs to bring up some US Secret Service agents to give some instructions on how to protect a world leader.


Yeah, the US style isn't really appropriate. 
Remember, there was no threat, there was no weapon, it was simply a private citizen openly travelling on public land.

Maybe the RCMP should have blocked down everything as secure zone, but they didn't.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The intruders could have had a gun instead of a cellphone. There was no security between the PM and the intruders.

It was clearly a breach of security protocol that warrants an internal investigation and immediate response.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah let's have an inquiry and waste millions more. Get a grip, this isn't the US.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Ontario nuclear plants have private trained and armed security. They have automatic weapons and will use them if necessary.

The Canadian PM should have the same level of security. The media intruders breached the security of the PM.

_“Many of the officers engaged in that activity are either ex-law enforcement or military,” notes Paul Nadeau, OPG Vice President of Security & Emergency Services. “*The model at our sites incorporate both armed and unarmed officers*. An unarmed officer may be operating scanning and search equipment whereas *an armed officer would respond to a breach.*” _





__





Outside the Fence - Blue Line


Post 9/11, the federal government instituted regulations requiring Canadian nuclear power plants to have an armed presence on site 24/7. Ontario Power Generation (OPG) initially signed a contract with the Durham Regional Police Service (DRPS) to supply armed security to its greater Toronto...




www.blueline.ca


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

diharv said:


> Yeah let's have an inquiry and waste millions more. Get a grip, this isn't the US.


PM Harper had to hide in a closet when a gunman was loose in Parliament just 7 years ago, before the gunman was shot 31 times.

The RCMP performed a complete review of the Parliament Hill shooting incident.





__





RCMP Security Posture, Parliament Hill, October 22, 2014 | Royal Canadian Mounted Police






www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca





I remember an intruder banging on PM Jean Chretien's bedroom door inside the official residence. He had a knife and wanted to kill the PM.

Four RCMP Mounties were suspended due to the breach of security at the Chretien residence.



https://apnews.com/article/ec59402f0e79e52399e4fa69d2f89132



Security for a world leader must be active, robust and capable at all time.........including on a beach in Tofino, BC.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The intruders could have had a gun instead of a cellphone. There was no security between the PM and the intruders.
> 
> It was clearly a breach of security protocol that warrants an internal investigation and immediate response.


There should have been security.
But again no reason to shoot them for doing something completely legal and appropriate, and not presenting a threat.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> PM Harper had to hide in a closet when a gunman was loose in Parliament just 7 years ago, before the gunman was shot 31 times.


Because until that incident we basically didn't have much armed security at parliment.



> I remember an intruder banging on PM Jean Chretien's bedroom door inside the official residence. He had a knife and wanted to kill the PM.
> 
> Four RCMP Mounties were suspended due to the breach of security at the Chretien residence.


Because those officers weren't trained in close protection.
If you don't have officers properly trained, of course you'll have problems.

Oh and you missed the time Joe Clark was punched in the face.




__





PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions


Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.




www.pressreader.com





Honestly I think the lack of security for the PM, and other senior politicians is unacceptable.

I think the PM, deputy PM, leader of the opposition, defence minister and maybe a few others should have 24/7 security, and others as required.
That being said, I don't support randomly shooting people who don't pose a threat.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

All the examples you gave were in official government building or a property that is given for a private use.
There is a difference between that and a public beach.

Nuclear plant is also idiotic example. 
First, it is private property, not a public land.
Second, damaging nuclear facility will hurt hundreds of thousands people.

There is a difference between private land, government buildings, and a private beach.
Give it a rest. Only investigation here should be why Prime Minister can lie on official schedule.
And it is free - because he is a spoiled prick and Canada has no accountability.
200$ max penalty for corruption of Prime Minister is a damn joke


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> All the examples you gave were in official government building or a property that is given for a private use.
> There is a difference between that and a public beach.
> 
> Nuclear plant is also idiotic example.
> ...


Beaches are typically not private, and in most of Canada you can't actually own the water anyway. I don't know exactly where this person was, but they may or may not have been on private property.
In any case, we dont' have the death penalty for trespass anyway.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

I thought sags thinks journalist deserves to die for criticizing Trudeau?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Security experts have been advising Trudeau to have more security to protect against mobs and stalkers.

_Chris Mathers, a retired RCMP officer who served in the protection details of former prime ministers says Trudeau needs to reconsider the political gain of doing such events, because the next time he could face something more dangerous than gravel. _

Evan Balgord, the executive director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, says it is possible that some of those following Trudeau could be fantasizing about using violence against their perceived enemies.

Balgord says the groups that have been stalking Trudeau's campaign across the country are organized and believe in conspiracy theories around COVID-19 pandemic.

"I am actually a little bit surprised that more precautions haven't been taken by the prime minister's entourage in particular, to try to keep him safe," Balgord said.

"An unstable person in that environment might take it upon themselves to act out on everybody's shared fantasy of killing the prime minister."









Security, anti-hate experts urge Trudeau to use caution with campaign 'mobs'


The time has come for Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau to start taking the protests dogging his campaign a little more seriously, a security expert and a member of an anti-hate group say.



www.ctvnews.ca


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## afulldeck (Mar 28, 2012)

sags said:


> Security experts have been advising Trudeau to have more security to protect against mobs and stalkers.
> 
> _Chris Mathers, a retired RCMP officer who served in the protection details of former prime ministers says Trudeau needs to reconsider the political gain of doing such events, because the next time he could face something more dangerous than gravel. _
> 
> Evan Balgord, the executive director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, says it is possible that some of those following Trudeau could be fantasizing about using violence against their perceived enemies.


Or he could resign.....


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

He likely will in due time. He is setting everything up for Chrystia Freeland to take over.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Security experts have been advising Trudeau to have more security to protect against mobs and stalkers.
> 
> _Chris Mathers, a retired RCMP officer who served in the protection details of former prime ministers says Trudeau needs to reconsider the political gain of doing such events, because the next time he could face something more dangerous than gravel. _
> 
> ...


I like how you mixed a professional, then switched to an ignorant hatemonger in the same thread. Really you shouldn't be quoting the Canadian "Southern Poverty Law Center" wannabe in a serious discussion.

Anyway, it isn't "Trudeaus Entourage" who sets security practices, it's the RCMP.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Not impressed with RCMP. Chretien was placed in danger more than once when he was supposed to be covered with protection. One in the PM's official residence as noted before. Anther time in Vancouver when he was physically threated...to the point where he reached out and clocked the individual in order to defend himself.

These are incidents that we know about. Just imagine other close calls that a PM, any of them, has had but were not reported for security reasons.

The threats are more real today. Years ago my spouse and I were walking along a street in Quebec City. She nudged me and said words the the effect that isn't that the Premier. Sure enough, it was Rene Levesque walking towards us, no one else in sight, cigarette hanging from the side of his mouth, hair a mess, wearing an old open overcoat. Quite a sight. We said hello then looked around. No protection in sight...though he probably gave his aides and his protection the slip. He seemed very happy.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The media could have reported this story without stalking Trudeau and his daughter on the beach.

They are actually walking up to him and asking him questions as he walks. Where the heck is the security ?


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

You actually think that reporter ran up to Trudeau on that beach without being checked and searched first? He was probably vetted before he got anywhere near the PM. I'll bet there is security way behind, ahead, and in the trees. You can't see everyone in the frames of the video.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

After a judicial review, the Liberals won another seat in Quebec.

Trudeau becomes the first PM since his father to win the most seats in Quebec in three elections.

The Liberals won 160 seats overall.....3 more than in the 2019 election, but still 10 short of a majority.









Judicial recount gives Trudeau's Liberals one more victory in Quebec


OTTAWA — The federal Liberals have picked up another seat in Quebec after a judicial recount Wednesday.




torontosun.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

diharv said:


> You actually think that reporter ran up to Trudeau on that beach without being checked and searched first? He was probably vetted before he got anywhere near the PM. I'll bet there is security way behind, ahead, and in the trees. You can't see everyone in the frames of the video.


_Trudeau famously pays little to no attention to the mainstream news media, so his surfing holiday was likely undisturbed by any of that —_ _s*ave and except a brave Global News crew who tried to question Trudeau on a Tofino beach, and were chased away by taxpayer-funded security goons. *_









KINSELLA: The silver lining to Trudeau's Tofino trip turmoil


I now think, more than ever before, he wants to leave.




torontosun.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It looks like the Liberal CERB and other support programs are paying off for Canada.

Canada created 157,000 jobs. The US with 10 times the population only created 194,000 jobs.

Employment numbers are back where they were before the pandemic.

When the 2021 budget money starts flowing there will be many more good jobs created all over Canada.

And some people think Trudeau should resign ?



https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-jobs-september-1.6204511


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Cherry-picking data. Canada is literally in recession. Just had the worst quarter since the beginning of the pandemic.
If you want to praise the government, economy is not where you should be going.
Worst economic performance in past 2 years in entire world.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

damian13ster said:


> Cherry-picking data. Canada is literally in recession. Just had the worst quarter since the beginning of the pandemic.
> If you want to praise the government, economy is not where you should be going.
> Worst economic performance in past 2 years in entire world.


The numbers do not support your comments.

Quite the opposite in fact.










GDP - International Comparisons: Key Economic Indicators - House of Commons Library


GDP International Comparisons: data and forecasts for the UK and the world's largest economies.




commonslibrary.parliament.uk













OECD Economic Outlook


Economic and Social Impacts and Policy Implications of the War in Ukraine.




www.oecd.org







https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-jobs-september-1.6204511


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

diharv said:


> You actually think that reporter ran up to Trudeau on that beach without being checked and searched first? He was probably vetted before he got anywhere near the PM. I'll bet there is security way behind, ahead, and in the trees. You can't see everyone in the frames of the video.


I think this is fanciful. PPC anti-vaxxers got close enough to Trudeau to pelt him with gravel.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> It looks like the Liberal CERB and other support programs are paying off for Canada.


How, we have insane inflation coming, this will hurt the lower and middle class families HARD.



> And some people think Trudeau should resign ?


Absolutely, have you seen how bad of a job he's been doing?


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

ian said:


> The numbers do not support your comments.
> 
> Quite the opposite in fact.
> 
> ...


We are last in economic misery index:








Canada has worst pandemic economic performance among comparable nations: MLI’s COVID Misery Index | Macdonald-Laurier Institute


Canada is suffering far more than comparable countries from self-inflicted and disproportionate economic damage due to the pandemic.




www.macdonaldlaurier.ca





We gave our citizens most misery at highest cost:









Government budget deficit 2021


Deficit is the negative difference between revenues and expenditures of the state, ie, expenses are higher than revenues. There is surplus when the difference is positive, ie, revenues exceed expenditures. As in the case of debt, to measure the importance of the deficit in an economy is compared...




countryeconomy.com





Worse unemployments than EU, G20, G7, developed economies:








Unemployment - Unemployment rate - OECD Data


Find, compare and share OECD data by indicator.




data.oecd.org





Highest deficit in the world, highest share of government spending in the world








Jack M. Mintz: In government spending and deficits, we're now No. 1 in the world


Unproductive public spending outstripping economic growth will be our real albatross threatening prosperity in years ahead




financialpost.com


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Unemployment numbers, deficits, and an 'economic misery' are components. 

The notion that Canada's performance is the worst in the world is simply incorrect when measured from a GDP/GDP performance and growth perspective.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> Unemployment numbers, deficits, and an 'economic misery' are components.
> 
> The notion that Canada's performance is the worst in the world is simply incorrect when measured from a GDP/GDP performance and growth perspective.


In many ways Canada is doing well.
But I think that these broader economic issues are not the result of the politicians, they can do little to make things better, and much to make them worse.

The massive spending and pending inflation is one way that things will be bad, but to a large extent I think they were required under the circumstances. They should have done it much more intelligently, but something had to be done, and I'm willing to accept some level of errors considering the timeline.


It's the other stuff, sewing so much division and hate, promoting racism, being double faced to indigenous people.
Like really he pretended to really have focus and care with his rash national holiday, but he couldn't even keep his focus for a few months to actually make a stand. Honestly he told First Nations that he'll use them for political points, but doesn't actually care enough to follow up with real action.

I think that's the worst, he's destroying trust in government. For that reason he should be out.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> How, we have insane inflation coming, this will hurt the lower and middle class families HARD.
> 
> 
> Absolutely, have you seen how bad of a job he's been doing?


Yea sure......Trudeau is doing so bad that Canadians punished him by re-electing him for the third time. 

I think your problem is that your objectives and policies aren't as progressive as most Canadians. You are stuck in "reformer" conservatism limbo land.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Inflation is not unique to Canada at the moment. Commodity prices are based on world market. Just look at what has happened to oil, coffee, some agro products like canola.

UK is going through very significant inflation and shortages. So is the US.

Canada is part of a world economy. The price of shipping a container from China to North America has gone for a few hundred dollars to $2200/$2500. That will be reflected in prices. Same with oil prices. Everything from production costs to transport to market costs. Demand for appliances is outstripping supply. The shortage of imported components and labor issues has caused domestically assembled appliances and other products to increase in price.

Certainly a country's monetary policy impacts inflation. But really, look what is happening in markets and in other countries around the world. The notion that Canada can control inflation or somehow have less inflation that other nations is a pipe dream.

The big number this winter will be fuel and food. It does not look promising for anyone that is struggling to make ends meet. I filled up with gas at the start of last week. $1.23. Again on the weekend @1.25. I noticed gas was up again to $1.29 at Costco yesterday. Only saving grace is that oil, at it's highest price in 7 years, might help our balance of payments and push the value of our dollar up a little to help offset the cost of imported goods.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Yea sure......Trudeau is doing so bad that Canadians punished him by re-electing him for the third time.
> 
> I think your problem is that your objectives and policies aren't as progressive as most Canadians. You are stuck in "reformer" conservatism limbo land.


2/3 of Canadians voted against his party and his approval rating is below 50%.

Yeah I believe in human rights, against racism, You might think it's progressive to deny human rights and be racist, but I think that's progress in the wrong direction.

We should really be working on improving quality of life for Canadians, and ensuring equality and fairness.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The challenge is that we have four political parties. Not much chance of any party getting to 50 points.

A PM's approval rating may be well below 50 percent at any point in time Sometimes people vote against someone or they vote for the least of two evils. I suspect that this happened in many urban ridings. 

I certainly voted for what I believed was the lesser of two evils rather than who I felt confident could provide good Government. And against our local MP.

To me the kind of numbers we had in the recent election are indicative of a poor Government and a very poor, ineffectual Opposition Party. 

I believe that they are as bad as each other....just in different ways.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I live in Western Canada and just might not even bother voting again, since we have no effect here anyway.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Mechanic said:


> I live in Western Canada and just might not even bother voting again, since we have no effect here anyway.


It certainly helped to elect Stephen Harper.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

ian said:


> Unemployment numbers, deficits, and an 'economic misery' are components.
> 
> The notion that Canada's performance is the worst in the world is simply incorrect when measured from a GDP/GDP performance and growth perspective.


Well, I consider fact that more Canadians can't find jobs that in pretty much every other developed country, and the fact that we are most miserable because of economy quite an important metric,
We can agree to disagree.
GDP is an interesting thing to look at, but you must understand it.
Let's look at natural resources. They make up 9.2% of Canada's GDP, over half of it from oil.
Now, if oil, lumber, iron prices go up significantly (which they did) then GDP is going to rise significantly.
Not a single new job was created though, not a single Canadian had higher income.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

damian13ster said:


> Well, I consider fact that more Canadians can't find jobs that in pretty much every other developed country, and the fact that we are most miserable because of economy quite an important metric,
> We can agree to disagree.
> GDP is an interesting thing to look at, but you must understand it.
> Let's look at natural resources. They make up 9.2% of Canada's GDP, over half of it from oil.
> ...


Well, RCMP officers just got a very significant increase. Where we live businesses in the hospitality and restaurant business are increasing wages and working conditions because there is far more demand for staff that there is supply. Post covid, people are shunning these public facing occupations. 

Post covid we will see nursing salaries increase for the very same reason. There was a shortage pre covid, it will be more significant post covid because of nurses leaving the profession. The even bigger issue is the demographics of nurses today vs. the number of people registering or enrolled in nursing programs.

My daughter and SIL are in the construction business. Northern BC, Ft. Mac, Edmonton, and now Calgary. The biggest challenge they face is hiring skilled and in some instances unskilled people. They are paying more to attract even marginal employees. They have walked from some projects because of staffing issues.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> Well, I consider fact that more Canadians can't find jobs that in pretty much every other developed country, and the fact that we are most miserable because of economy quite an important metric,


There are piles of jobs, everyone is hiring.
The people who are unemployed just don't want those jobs.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> There are piles of jobs, everyone is hiring.
> The people who are unemployed just don't want those jobs.


 ... yep, just as the executives don't want those jobs. Post-pandemic (or is it current-pandemic) is gonna to be the era of the Great Resignations.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... yep, just as the executives don't want those jobs. Post-pandemic (or is it current-pandemic) is gonna to be the era of the Great Resignations.


We're in a bit of an adjustment now. 
I think employees are demanding more, and employers will have to offer more. I just hope it doesn't get pushed to making the employers uncompetitive resulting in them going under.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> There are piles of jobs, everyone is hiring.
> The people who are unemployed just don't want those jobs.


Perhaps. Guess it depends where you are. 
I know that for a job I started in July (it was a shitty pay, 22/h but was supposed to be super cool and fast pace of learning) had 350 applications for one spot.
The job that I moved on 3 weeks ago (previous one didn't turn out so cool because of scrapping plans for renewables investment in Edmonton), had 1500 applicants for 4 spots.
Also, official statistics show there is twice as many unemployed as job openings.
In US there is more job openings than unemployed, but not in Canada.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> Perhaps. Guess it depends where you are.
> I know that for a job I started in July (it was a shitty pay, 22/h but was supposed to be super cool and fast pace of learning) had 350 applications for one spot.
> The job that I moved on 3 weeks ago (previous one didn't turn out so cool because of scrapping plans for renewables investment in Edmonton), had 1500 applicants for 4 spots.
> Also, official statistics show there is twice as many unemployed as job openings.
> In US there is more job openings than unemployed, but not in Canada.


$22/hr is pretty good pay, depending on skills and experience.

Also number of applicants is pretty meaningless, lots of jobs get completely unsuitable candidates who are just spamming resumes.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

MrMatt said:


> There are piles of jobs, everyone is hiring.
> The people who are unemployed just don't want those jobs.


There will always be unemployment. Anything under a the 3 percent level is considered to be flux, not unemployment.

There will always be those who lack the basic people skills or job skills/training to obtain a job or to keep a job. As an example, my son in law had a call at 2 in the morning from a prospective hire who wanted him to send this person money so that he could pay for a tow truck. He had not even been hired yet. Guess what...that person was not hired and is probably a EI statistic.

Then there are others who are unemployed or under employed because they will not relocate to where the jobs are. My spouse hails from a small Ontario town. She knows of relatives and friends who are reluctant to move from their high school friends or from under mommy's apron. 

They are the same people who think we are ' lucky' to have had the jobs, positions and the experiences that we have. All it took was some post secondary training or edu,, relocating to where the opportunities happened to be (several times), and putting in 12 hours days with no OT payments from time to time. And a little ambition with an eye to the end game, not the current period.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> There will always be unemployment. Anything under a the 3 percent level is considered to be flux, not unemployment.
> 
> There will always be those who lack the basic people skills or job skills/training to obtain a job or to keep a job. As an example, my son in law had a call at 2 in the morning from a prospective hire who wanted him to send this person money so that he could pay for a tow truck. He had not even been hired yet. Guess what...that person was not hired and is probably a EI statistic.
> 
> ...


Having moved hours away from my hometown, I understand this.
I like where I live, but there are lots of other places I'd rather live, they just don't have the jobs I need to support my family.

Too many people are unwilling to make these trade offs.

You can't afford to live in location X, don't live there, There aren't any jobs where I am, don't be there.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> $22/hr is pretty good pay, depending on skills and experience.
> 
> Also number of applicants is pretty meaningless, lots of jobs get completely unsuitable candidates who are just spamming resumes.


Had to have an engineering degree for it.
But the point is - job market doesn't look particularly well, especially if you start comparing it to other nations.
Economy in Canada is struggling and it seems like every single promise or action taken is to make it struggle even more. Destroying productivity while printing money.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

damian13ster said:


> Had to have an engineering degree for it.
> But the point is - job market doesn't look particularly well, especially if you start comparing it to other nations.
> Economy in Canada is struggling and it seems like every single promise or action taken is to make it struggle even more. Destroying productivity while printing money.


I believe that the job market is always dependent on where you live, your skills, and the market demand for those skills. We have several friends in Calgary who changed their occupations/vocations because of the downturn in the oil patch and the amalgamations. Others who went back to acquire new skills. It is one reason why there has been net migration of young people from Alberta to other provinces over the past year. Especially to BC and to Ontario.

I worked for a multi national IT firm. It was surprising how many senior managers and execs ended up in positions or streams that were very different from the positions they originally hired into based on their then current skills.

I believe the last estimate I saw was expectation that people would have 5-8 employers over their working lives and change their careers, vocations, whatever at least 2-3 times during their working lives.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Flexibility of employees is one problem.
Canada being less friendly for business every single year and having investment dry up is another:








Canada Capital investment, percent of GDP - data, chart | TheGlobalEconomy.com


Canada: Capital investment as percent of GDP: For that indicator, we provide data for Canada from 1961 to 2020. The average value for Canada during that period was 22.7 percent with a minimum of 18.44 percent in 1992 and a maximum of 27.17 percent in 1966. The latest value from 2020 is 22.26...




www.theglobaleconomy.com


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

damian13ster said:


> Flexibility of employees is one problem.
> Canada being less friendly for business every single year and having investment dry up is another:
> 
> 
> ...


The government is actively hostile to employers and businesses so we have a problem attracting them. But look at things like the NDP wanting to further tax investment, attacking jobs is very politically popular.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Our son works on large construction projects and they have projects lined up for years into the future.

I don't know about other Provinces, but Ontario is booming with construction. Many of those projects are going to be filled with employees in the future.

His company is always looking to hire experienced skilled trades, but most young adults don't have the skills or the desire to do the work.

His union told him that his wage and benefit package is worth $130K a year.

Not bad for a kid who was told by his high school VP that he wouldn't amount to much.

Get a skill trade or several, get hired by a big unionized construction company, work for 25 years and retire with a fat DB pension.

That is my advice to young adults today.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

From an FP article: The most recent data from Stats Can shows workplaces have 800000 positions vacant.
From the same article: When the CRB and enhanced EI come to an end, some 1.1 million people will suddenly find themselves without an income.
The dole is so significant that cutting it off will contract GDP 1.7% over the space of just two months , something that could prolong the recovery.
So the rise in household income over the course of the pandemic and the recovery is fuelled by borrowed money printed out of thin air. Lots of jobs available and lots of people to fill them but that would go against the agenda of the current govt to create a welfare state supported by "other people's money", the ultra rich, all 20 or 30 of them. My bet is on the dole being extended again. And again, and again.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

sags said:


> Our son works on large construction projects and they have projects lined up for years into the future.
> 
> I don't know about other Provinces, but Ontario is booming with construction. Many of those projects are going to be filled with employees in the future.
> 
> ...


I was a manager/director in a non union business. Three companies, two mergers. Our benefits were deemed at one time to similar to Gov't beneiftis...but not our company funded DB.

The highest number that I worked with was an overhead uplift of 52/54 percent of salary that was attributable to all company benefits, vacation, training, with the exception of the stock plan and any stock options granted. By the time I left 25 years later that uplift number was down to the mid twenties.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Interesting story on Canada's next PM Chrystia Freeland in the Globe and Mail.









KGB archives show how Chrystia Freeland drew the ire (and respect) of Soviet intelligence services


Chrystia Freeland’s ties to Ukraine are no secret, but KBG archives illuminate her role in the Ukrainian independence movement during her days as a student




www.theglobeandmail.com


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