# Financial habits of your partner?



## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm wondering if you all (or anyone in a relationship) have very similar financial views/goals as the person you're with? Is this a requirement for you for dating them? 

I just started seeing a guy a few months ago and we get along really well, but I think we're quite different in our views of money. I'm really all about saving to get ahead and have no issue not buying everything I want now for a better future later. 

He comes from working in a position where he made a very high amount of money and adjusted his lifestyle up to match (spent most of what he earned). He's no longer in that position so took over half a pay cut and is still spending as though he was earning the higher salary. He's openly told me he needs to work on budgeting/managing his money better, but that was three months ago and this month he told me he spent more than he earned. That kind of terrifies me as it's exactly opposite what I stand for. It's so early on in the relationship but I'm starting to wonder if we should be even going forward. How does one discuss this and can a person even change? 

He's also said to me a few times that 'money doesn't matter'...but yet he's out buying all these luxury things.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Run.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I wouldn't say "run," but I would say that if things end up well and you move in together or even get married, you should just keep your finances totally separate until/unless it's clear that he's changed his ways.

There's nothing wrong with letting him sink while you swim, as long as you don't share any of his liabilities or have to bail him out. A lot of people get hung up on the arbitrary notion that couples need to have joint finances (there was a long debate about this elsewhere on the forum), but I know a number of couples who keep their finances separate (we do that ourselves and it has worked brilliantly, we've been together for 13 years now and have never argued about money except a little at the very beginning before we worked out the system we use now). 

I would just be clear with him that his approach to finances makes you nervous and that if he digs a financial hole for himself he's got to be the one who digs himself out -- you're not going to do it for him.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

It became a requirement for me after my first marriage ended for multiple reasons, but a big one was incompatible views on financial issues. 

However I will say this: there is no separate "attitudes about money" that is separate from the person's views on life. You can't, for example, be totally compatible with a partner EXCEPT for their views on money. Their views about money are part of their views about life. 

Does that mean I think that people who have incompatibilities in their views shouldn't have relationships? Not at all. But "views on money" are fundamental, and they aren't limited to money. 

My husband is *more* frugal than I am. It's been a big adjustment for both of us to have the capacity to spend much more as we've transitioned through various earning phases of life, and to not automatically defer or avoid purchases. 

And while I do not think people need to keep their day-to-day finances intermingled, the reality is that marriage and property laws in Canada will mingle them for you if you are legally married (and you split), and increasingly so if you are not legally married but have achieved what your province recognizes as common-law marriage status.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

This doesn't sound very good. I was in a similar situation once and despite my efforts to help her, it just wasn't to be. IMO this is a pretty black and white thing and you cannot expect the person to change or improve. You can stay with them if you like them otherwise but that's just pushing the issue under the rug. It will resurface every time he spends and this will cause arguments between you. Might want to decide now if this is something you can really live with before investing too much time with someone.

One of the top things couples argue about is money.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

p.s. This means that IF you get married (and potentially even if you do not), AND you decide to "let him sink," and then you split up, you're going to end up bailing him out to the tune of half of whatever you accumulated during your relationship, more or less.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> IMO this is a pretty black and white thing and you cannot expect the person to change or improve.


I disagree, especially given what the OP has told us about the guy she's seeing. She said he once made a lot of money and adjusted his lifestyle to match, and now he says he realizes he needs to readjust his lifestyle to match the new reality. He's just not doing it. We don't know if that means "he's not going to do it" or "he's not doing it yet."

It's a lot easier to adjust your ilfestyle upward than downward, and some people stick their head in the sand for a while until they can't ignore it anymore. He might just be one of those people. I do think people can change their views toward money over time; our behaviour toward money isn't necessarily genetically hardwired. For much of my life I "didn't care about money" in the sense that I felt that the purpose of money was to spend it, and I didn't pay much attention to saving or making wise purchases. Now I'm pretty frugal and we live on less than 1/4 of our combined gross income.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

One other point to consider: the fact that he even knows he spent more than he earned is a good thing, in my opinion. You definitely want to avoid getting involved with someone who is irresponsible with money to the extent that they don't keep track of their spending and don't pay bills or don't pay them on time. You need to know you can rely on someone to pull their own weight if you do end up in a long-term relationship. In this case you're talking about someone who's currently iiving beyond his means but recognizes that he needs to change.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

There is, however, quite a vast difference between living-below-your-means as a philosophy and passively acknowledging (under duress) that "something needs to be done", while doing nothing....(a little like the junkie who's always "going to get themselves straight......someday")


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

One's disinterest in properly managing finances can come from many personality traits, all of which are undesirable ... selfishness, compulsion, laziness, etc. When picking a life partner, I'd be discussing this early in the relationship letting them know your expectations of a partner. Money = security ... which is a big part of why people find life partners. Be careful and choosey when it comes to your secure future.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

The first place to start is a conversation with your boyfriend telling him this is a serious concern for you. Money habits are difficult to change but some people surprise you.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

When I read all the relationship horror stories out there, whether they are money related or not, I again realize how damn lucky I am to have found my wife. We are definitely on the same page financially... 

To the OP, like others have said, be CAREFUL....


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Spidey said:


> The first place to start is a conversation with your boyfriend telling him this is a serious concern for you. Money habits are difficult to change but some people surprise you.


I went from one extreme to the other. It can be done if the person has the motivation and wants to change. Being an extreme spender is almost as problematic as being an extreme money hoarder. Different repercussions, but both usually aren't healthy.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I dunno,I myself am starting to lighten up(dating ect,might be because i'm getting older and realize reality)But i don't think you should rule out the guy your dating on solely his views of money.(his current views as a ''single'' man)
If you have a lot of the real ''important'' non financial chemistry going-attraction,sexual,laughter,kind,hard working ect i personally woudn't be in a rush to end it,there is imo things money can't buy!A money blue-print is not fixed(it can be changed)Don't be so quick.
We all have things we need to work on and he is aware he needs to change in re:money-that is a positive(there is likely things he feels you need work on ect)
Don't put money above everything it will let you down(im learning this lesson in my 30's now)


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

donald said:


> But i don't think you should rule out the guy your dating on solely his views of money.


Much of what has been suggested may/could/can be equally applied to other aspects of potential compatibility........not to say that only 'identical twins' should enter relationships, but extreme differences will magnify rather than fade.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Nemo2 said:


> Run.


I would not say 'run' just yet either but I would give him a very definite timeline, e.g. Weeks, in which he must get spending below income. Money incompatibility is the major reason for relationship fights and breakups. As MoneyGal says, the longer this occurs, and once a relationship becomes common law, the more you become entangled legally in his debts.

I am of the camp that finances be kept separate at least for a certain number of years until common values can be assured. Only common household expenses should be shared via joint accounts including a low limit credit card.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I understand what your saying nemo(I have never been married or been in a relationship past a few years,so i can't really preach to the choir)
I know for myself the last 10 years i have had a pretty narrow focus(business/building assets ect)Fall a little out of the normal ''curve'' marriage/children ect(self inflicted)
I took a slight(six figures) hit this spring(unresolved real estate transaction)and it has made me slow-down a bit and re-examine my life and look deeper at a more balanced non financial life priorities.
I'm actually trying to ''work'' on relationships and stop and smell the roses.(enjoy life-business/investing/frugality can be heavy and serious a lot of the time)
All i'm saying is ''we'' all have flaws and life is ever evolving and i think it is a mistake to solely focus on $$.
I ruined a few relationships and i have some regrets.(being to rigid)Being type A or the personality of plotting everything is not all that attractive either(you can't always ''control" life anyways).
Not really sure where i am going with this but maybe you understand what im trying to say.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah, it is good that he realizes it, but he realized it 3 months ago and it seems to be getting worse. I guess what crosses my mind too is that when he came into all that money, he spent it - I don't think he saved much at all, whereas with me, I would have saved the vast majority of it. 

And I can definitely see the point of separate accounts and I'm almost 100% positive I will do this with anyone I marry (and have joint accounts for house, etc), but still, if I'm putting money away for a good retirement and he's saving nothing... what do we do when retirement hits? It's also a lot easier to save money when your partner wishes the same otherwise one will always want to do expensive things and the other doesn't... I mean, I'm not extremely cheap, but for me, making sure I'm saving a decent amount will always take first priority over any luxury spending. That only comes if/when I've saved what I wanted to to reach my goal. 

I'm just not even sure how to talk to him about it though and he can tell me he'll work on it, but how can I really monitor if he's saving money? That's where I'm a bit stuck...it's easy to tell someone you'll get better and focus on saving but unless you see their bank accounts, how do you know? 

And I do really think that much of spending/saving is very habitual and hard to change. 

With him, we are really similar, almost like twins in many regards. There are a few problems that have just presented themselves though, this one is the biggest and the second is he works evening shift, 3-11 at night and he seems pretty firm on keeping it that way for quite some time, which means a lot of lonely nights for me. At first I thought he'd be flexible to change it if our relationship progressed but he's said things that indicate he's pretty much fully against working days unless he absolutely has to.

I am getting older so I just don't want to waste a lot of time with someone when the chances of a good future aren't looking so bright.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

OK, let me come back and say that I do not think different attitudes towards money are always and necessarily a dealbreaker. The challenge is, can you find common ground? Unaddressed financial incompatibility CAN be a big issue and it can grow as the relationship progresses. However, how you address this particular issue will probably tell you how strong your relationship is or can become. 

I know this will likely sound off the hook, but you COULD ask him to see his bank statements. But I wouldn't jump to that right away :soap: (BTW what is that new 'soap' smiley?!). 

Instead, you could just open up a conversation about it and see where it goes. "I've been thinking about our relationship and how it might progress, and I wanted to know if you were open to discussing a couple of things that have been on my mind." 

If he says he's willing to have the conversation (this doesn't have to be a big heavy thing), then you can say (something like) "Financial stability is really important to me, and I've been hoping to have a conversation with you about saving and spending, but I haven't known how to start the conversation...What I've been noticing is that when we talk about money stuff, you tell me that you are spending more than you are earning. When I think about the long-term impact of that behaviour, it concerns me..." or whatever you would say to start to get the conversation out into the open. 

I'd say, don't write off the relationship without seeing if this is something you can discuss openly and frankly -- and whether he is willing to actually change his behaviour to meet you on a middle ground. 

There are gender issues around this stuff too, and I think that is worth contemplating and is worthy of discussion here. If you plan on having kids, there is more than likely going to be a period of several years (how long depends on how many kids you have) where your capacity to earn significant income will be compromised. Part of being a "good provider" for a husband is to overearn and oversave in order to ensure there are funds to draw on if/when kids enter the picture. 

What's really changed in my own relationship compared to, say, my mom's (or my mom's generation) is that women are much more empowered to earn income at rates which approach or surpass those of men. I am more involved in our finances than my husband is - in this way we "break the mold" a little bit compared to our parents - I earn more money and handle all the finances. But even if those particular details were not in place, I have always been extremely straightforward about how I approach money stuff. _I was never going to leave the finances solely to a partner, even if I was not always going to earn as much/more money. _(My husband actually says this is one of the main reasons he thought getting married to me was a good idea.)

Guess I am feeling verbose. I'm in Montreal at a cafe in the Mile End, squeezed between hipsters and Hasidim.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

accidental double post!


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

As Debbie Harry sang "Once had love and it was a gas - soon turned out to be a pain in the ***"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1973e_blondie-heart-of-glass_music

And....as Sgt. Phil Esterhaus, on Hill Street Blues, used to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2QApwtE8zQ

(This, from someone who's _very_ happily married, but who's also been around long enough to 'observe'.)


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

It's all very well for some of you to say that the OP is putting too much emphasis on the boyfriend's irresponsible attitude towards money but, speaking from personal experience, she is not. In fact, she's very wise to be considering this situation very early in their relationship. Like MoneyGal's, my first marriage ended in divorce for a variety of reasons, but financial incompatibility was right up there at the top of the list.

I was married (and widowed) twice after my divorce and both times, I strongly considered financial attitudes and spending habits before I married, and I can't even find the words to explain what a difference that made to my life. I had two very happy marriages, both with men who were far from wealthy but who strongly believed in living within their means and acted accordingly. I live a very comfortable retirement while, ex-husband, at age 73, is living on OAS and GIS and a very small amount of CPP (because he was too irresponsible to pay into it during his many years of self-employment - one of the many things we used to argue about).

MoneyGal is also correct in warning that in many provinces it isn't possible keep your finances separate even in a common-law relationship if the relationship comes to an end. BC's new family law legislation came into effect earlier this year, making the rules about common-law marriages no different from those in legal marriages. 

Yes, it's possible that the OP's boyfriend will change, but, even with good intentions, it's more likely that he will not. I'm with Nemo2 - Run!


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

I agree with you that not saving a significant portion of income when the income first went up is almost as distressing as letting lifesytle creep as income went up and now being unable to bring spending under control now that income is down. Savers v spenders! Compatibility in matters financial is very important for longterm relationship success. It sounds like you are a 'saver' and therefore likely a 'catch'. I don't think that you should seriously be looking at anyone as a life partner that you would feel the need to keep separate finances if you were married. That may just be me though. Good luck!


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I don't necessarily think it is a deal breaker, but rather another challenge for a relationship.

I think whether or not it becomes a shows topper s the couples ability to communicate and come to a happy medium. If he shuts down, becomes defensive, makes excuses, then it probably will become a deal breaker. 

You can't make him change, but if he is willing to communicate about it, the it's workable.

My spouse and tend to be on the same paragraph, or at least chapter at least. We both believed in investing in our careers was the way to go. We both agree that we don't believe in debt however, we both value different things on what we spend our money on. We agree to not go into debt, put only aside for retirement and large purchases, and then hats about it sometimes. We have both come home with purchases tha the other doesn't approve of, but we put some rules such as over $1000 is wha we need to consult on.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

ShannonC said:


> - spent most of what he earned
> - He's no longer in that position so took *over half a pay cut *and is still spending as though he was earning the higher salary.
> - 'money doesn't matter'...but yet he's out buying all these luxury things.
> - That kind of terrifies me


I wonder how old he is, and for how long he's been spending all he earned, and even what he did not earn. You should find this out, and also, why he took 'over half a pay-cut' when he loves to spend? He most likely did not take the cut simply because 'money isn't important to him'.

You have every reason to be terrified. IMHO, if his behaviour has been a pattern for a long time, then it sounds like it's much more than being hugely irresponsible [spending more than earned].

I don't know if the shopping has always been excessive, but if it has, and is, it means he lacks some control, and if so, in what other areas does he suffer from same? Anyway, what I'm trying to say, is that he may have psychological issues, ie: he may be buying those luxury items for more reasons than a mere appreciation/passion for the finer things in life. For example, could he be doing so due to low self-esteem, or to fill something missing, etc.? 

If you're early in the relationship, but already feeling terrified, it can't be fun, so I'm also with Karen and Nemo. Better you feel this way months into the relationship than years.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

my $.02 


ShannonC said:


> a. Yeah, it is good that he realizes it, but he realized it 3 months ago and it seems to be getting worse.
> b. but still, if I'm putting money away for a good retirement and he's saving nothing... what do we do when retirement hits?
> c. I'm just not even sure how to talk to him about it though and he can tell me he'll work on it, but how can I really monitor if he's saving money?
> d. he works evening shift, 3-11 at night and he seems pretty firm on keeping it that way for quite some time, which means a lot of lonely nights for me. At first I thought he'd be flexible to change it if our relationship progressed but he's said things that indicate he's pretty much fully against working days unless he absolutely has to.


a. There are lots of things that can derail a relationship, but it is said that money is the #1 contentious issue in relationships/marriage. I would proceed with caution (if at all). This is an important issue for you, and it doesn't appear that he's serious about changing. (you'll set yourself and your relationship up for failure if you think that you can change your partner)
b. Sounds like you're already resenting the prospect
c. You're not sure how to talk to him? And you don't really trust him, it sounds. Neither is good in a relationship.
d. Again you're trying to change him, he won't (and shouldn't), and you'll end up resenting it.

There are a number of things you've written that indicate future problems (beyond the money).


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

To OP
I would be equally concerned about his desire to work second shift. Especially for half pay!

It would appear that he is an avoider. People who avoid problems are doomed to continue to have them.

If you think running is an avoidance manoeuvre, just start on a fast walk! Good luck!:encouragement:


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

How long is a "few" months anyways?to be fair to the chap your not really giving him a lot of breathing room IMO.Is he transitioning in work(sonds like it)if your in your early 20's or even mid 20's(sounds like a educated guess)Most people are still finding there footing and he has in the past been a high income earner which suggest its likely he could be again.I guess if your goal is husband hunting than yeah I guess cut him loose.Guess that's the difference between men and women(when I was in my 20s I never futured my date 12 weeks in thinking about 20s years down the road)maybe this is why I'm single lol.you don't really sound that interested in the guy regardless of the money equation!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Reality is that the guy has a lot of free time on his hands because of working on opposite shifts which may cause him to shop and spend too.Sit down with him and see what you guys can figure out ,if he is content to save 10% that may still not be enough for you.My husband and I were probably together 5 years before we had any soft of plan , mainly because we were starting out and had high expenses and really low incomes back then.The $1200 we spent to furnish our first apartment may as well been a million dollars back then lol.BTW Our 25th is coming up in few day and I have new Bling ,I had no problem with him spending all his cash on my finger lol


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

donald said:


> How long is a "few" months anyways? *to be fair to the chap your not really giving him a lot of breathing room* IMO.


Recognize these words: *"When I see a label forward woman/well dressed, I just think she might be a little self-centered/arrogant, etc."* (don't know till i meet her though).

So how much 'breathing room' do you give those well-dressed ladies with good sense of style? And don't you also assume they are gold-diggers? 

I know I know, you'll say it's not the same thing. :tongue-new:


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Shannon C and are likely not approaching dating the same(probably polar opposite)I'm not a women sooo i don't have a clock ticking and i don't(from what i'm understanding in the post)place a women's financial values as high(I look for personality and beauty)I'll date a ''label forward women/well dressed''!I just won't choose to likely marry her,and i can tell if she is looking for a husband.(i am starting to ''look'' more serious now,not sure i what to marry,i just don't want to lose my finance position on a quick marriage where i lose half )
T-gal I'm in my ''sweet'' spot right now as far as choices(can date 10 yrs younger and 10 years older)Being a single man in the early 30's is a good place to be!I'm in my prime and as far as finances go i think i'm for sure in a top bracket(own a company,have assets/investments ect ect)
This post proves(it seems)how important a mans wallet is(men covet beauty and youth in a women/women covet a man's wallet)
It's not fair and not right but lets be honest:Life gets better for men with age,not so much for women(as far as mate selection ect) imo,but women had/have there run where they are in a great position 30 and under,not trying to sound rude but we are talking about a mans wallet here.(topic)So yeah it isn't the same imo


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for all the replies here. So we're both just shy of 30 and he worked the higher paying job for 2 years I believe. I can 100% understand and support his reasons for stopping that job so there are zero issues there, it's just adjusting to the pay cut that I'm worried about and his desire to save at least similar to mine. I guess I just feel that it's nice if a couple can do that together...have financial goals for the long term and support each other as you go along. 

He does seem to be very aware of the problem though and has started to show an active effort to start saving, so that's promising. If this issue and the shift schedule issue work out, so far from what I've seen, I could see myself marrying him should we get that far, so I think I'll try and get through this - or at least see what happens over the next little while. I was talking to a few friends today and I do have a tendency to run as soon as I spot something that may be problematic, but he really is so good in so many other regards...I'll try and calm my anxieties, but still pay attention to things as many of you have suggested. I definitely don't want to be divorced due to money, but as long as he keeps up the effort, we're on a good path. It's comforting to know that I'm not the only one who places a high value on this capability though.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

On the other hand you are only few months into relationship and you are already trying to change his behaviour, for all we know he maybe posting relationship questions on another forum and the folks over there may be advising him to run, not walk, from the control freak with anxieties over little things;-)
Just saying,


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