# United Airlines kicks off mother & crying baby



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

She got kicked off a flight from San Francisco to Vancouver for having a crying baby.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/ID/2668294572/

Oh yeah, she also happens to be a Canadian musician.

You'd think by now United Airlines would know enough to stop messing with our musicians, right? 
For those who missed it here's what happened when United Airlines broke Dave Carroll's guitar, of Sons of Maxwell.. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-UoERHaSQg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45E0uGVyeg

^^^ A hilarious 3-part trilogy.. gotta love it..

I'm so looking forward to a hit by Sarah Blackwood about this, I hope she does it :biggrin:


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

It's hard to believe that an experienced aircrew would toss them off the plane for this on their own initiative. Babies cry on planes. It happens all the time. One wonders if some VIP in Business class demanded that something be done about the effing baby, and the aircrew caved to pressure.


----------



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Dave Carroll speaks in 2010: Lessons from "United Breaks Guitars" 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hd8XI42i2M


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> You'd think by now United Airlines would know enough to stop messing with our musicians, right?
> For those who missed it here's what happened when United Airlines broke Dave Carroll's guitar, of Sons of Maxwell..
> 
> 
> ...


Love that Youtube video..it was featured a while back on this forum..I think. United Airlines..yes..familiar with their treatment of guitars,
but United is not an exclusive airline to breaking guitars. i've travelled with my guitar and had to pay extra to have it stowed safely with
the flight crew's luggage area..but that isn't always possible. 
Great song with great lyrics. Youtube is a powerful medium to get your message across worldwide.



> After 150,000 views, United contacted Dave Carroll and offered payment to make the video go away. He had changed his mind, however. It wasn’t about the money anymore. In fact, he suggested they donate the money to a charity.
> 
> United also discovered that “United Breaks Guitars” wasn’t just a single song. It was part of a trilogy.


\\
and furthermore to this story...



> *Taylor Guitars, the people who made the now famous guitar — and who are referenced in the video — had their own response.
> *
> *They gave Dave a new Taylor Guitar. But that’s not all.*
> 
> ...



well what can we say..these things can happen..preventable...yes

Air Canada OTOH...reacted very quickly because they didn't want a Youtube realized about their mishandling of a guitar...especially on those 
HARD LANDINGS....
http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/Canada/2009/08/23/10574301-sun.html


----------



## fraser (May 15, 2010)

If she doesn't like it then maybe she will go Greyhound next time.


----------



## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

There is more to this story. I highly doubt that an airline would kick a baby off for crying. On the news it said the toddler was running up and down the aisle and would not sit down for take off.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

PrairieGal said:


> There is more to this story. I highly doubt that an airline would kick a baby off for crying. On the news it said the toddler was running up and down the aisle and would not sit down for take off.


It wasn't even a baby. Gotta love sensationalist media.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^ + ^ not a baby crying for 7 minutes or so?... then was she lying in that interview with CBC as per link in post #1?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> She got kicked off a flight from San Francisco to Vancouver for having a crying baby.
> http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/ID/2668294572/
> 
> Oh yeah, she also happens to be a Canadian musician.
> ...


 ... thanks for posting/sharing those links ... I forgot about those. And still kudos to Mr. D. Caroll for providing United Air (or any other airline or large company for that matter) an excellent customer service lesson! :applause:


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^^ + ^ not a baby crying for 7 minutes or so?... then was she lying in that interview with CBC as per link in post #1?


There is more to this story than she is telling CBC. The picture is of a baby, but her son is a 2 yr old toddler..and they can be "holy terrors" when they take a
temper tantrum. She should have booked a half price seat and buckled him in and not let him squirm and run up and down the isle disturbing other passengers.

On take off and landing that is very important because you don't know what can happen in an emergency. 

Obviously "modern mom" couldn't control her brat, so she just let him do whatever he wanted and that would P*ss off other paying passengers..certainly
I would be annoyed if this was going on and the kid was throwing a temper tantrum in the isles...no wonder the crew and captain decided to go back
and turf her off with her brat!


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ In this case, then United Air wasn't being unreasonable as can't have anybody running up and down an aisle on take off (let alone a screaming kid). Now that she has gone public with her version of the story (7 minutes crying baby on her lap), I wonder how United is going to respond to her version.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ In this case, then United Air wasn't being unreasonable as can't have anybody running up and down an aisle on take off (let alone a screaming kid). Now that she has gone public with her version of the story (7 minutes crying baby on her lap),* I wonder how United is going to respond to her version.*


 I thinks "moma's" recollection of what may have happened is downplayed a bit to get some 5 minutes of free publicity/fame on CBC..

How should United react to this interview? 
Give the kid a new guitar..that will keep him busy.and moma being a musician can get the kid started early...who knows..maybe he could even be the next "Kurt Cobain"?...:highly_amused:


----------



## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm always surprised that these corporations really never rebut the complaints if it's from someone getting the spotlight through fame or whatever. I just hope the CBC or other news outlet will give a fellow passenger from that flight some airtime, but that also rarely happens. The media is supported by readers/listeners/viewers who just love to feel those negative emotions and hear the plight of another fellow "victim" of life's harsh treatment. And hey, if it's children under attack, then a lot of momma bears go into cub defense mode.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Are you sure a "guitar" would be good to start him off with? Maybe one of those plastic kiddies' one ... imagine sparing one of yours...  :biggrin:

Btw, I know flying is for quicker travelling but don't bands normally travel by buses or even mini-vans for convenience and flexibility on locations and schedules? Maybe those only happened in the hippies' days.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

fraser said:


> If she doesn't like it then maybe she will go Greyhound next time.


 ... if her version was not it, then I don't think it'll make any difference on a Greyhound ... I can't see the Greyhound going anywhere with a kid running AND screaming at the same time...or maybe multiple stops at MCD might help.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> . And hey, if it's children under attack, then a lot of momma bears go into cub defense mode.


Exactly!.. Oh no! , it wasn't my little "Johnny's fault! It was the big bad airline.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Are you sure a "guitar" would be good to start him off with? Maybe one of those plastic kiddies' one ... imagine sparing one of yours...  :biggrin:
> 
> Btw, I know flying is for quicker travelling but don't bands normally travel by buses or even mini-vans for convenience and flexibility on locations and schedules? Maybe those only happened in the hippies' days.


They still do, but maybe it was too far to drive by bus, and she had a schedule to meet..or maybe the rest of the band didn't want her and her brat to be on the bus for a long trip back home..because if her two year old is used to having his way (temper tantrums, screaming/crying) then they couldn't just boot her off anywhere along the route... even if they wanted to. I don't understand why she didn't hire a nanny and keep the kid at home....just sayin'.


----------



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> It wasn't even a baby. Gotta love sensationalist media.


The kid was under two, I'd consider that a baby, but yeah maybe toddler is more accurate.
Mother says he was sleeping when they landed, supposedly captain said 'for fuel so they can get there quicker' lol.

Two different stories, United Airlines say he was running around, she says he was settled down within about 7 minutes, and sleeping not long after, (passengers say she did do her best to settle him down).
I'm more inclined to believe her, after hearing about Dave Carroll's experience with United Airlines.






fraser said:


> If she doesn't like it then maybe she will go Greyhound next time.


Yeh.. or maybe just use *any* airline other than United Airlines?
Going Greyhound is fine for you and me, but she's knocked up, with a toddler, and on tour for the last two years, so maybe not so great 100% of the time for her.


----------



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

OhGreatGuru said:


> It's hard to believe that an experienced aircrew would toss them off the plane for this on their own initiative. Babies cry on planes. It happens all the time. *One wonders if some VIP in Business class demanded that something be done about the effing baby, and the aircrew caved to pressure.*


^Seems the most probable of how it likely played out, or maybe the cap'n was hung over


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> ^Seems the most probable of how it likely played out, or maybe the cap'n was hung over


Well so far, it's all speculation..but lets hear it from another angle...CTVNEWS..



> In a statement to CTVNews.ca, SkyWest said the flight crew made the "difficult decision" to remove Blackwood and her son from the flight based on "safety concerns."
> "Despite numerous requests, the child was not seated, as required by federal regulation to ensure passenger safety, and was r*epeatedly in the aisle of the aircraft before departure and during taxi," the statement said*.
> "While our crews work to make travelling safe and comfortable for all travellers, particularly families, the crew made the appropriate decision to return to the gate in the interest of safety."


Ok..so the toddler was running around in the isles..and if she was 7 months pregnant, she couldn't hold him for very long squirming on her belly bump. 
She is using /standing by her excuse that she "*didn't have to buy an extra seat because he wasn't 2 yet*"...um he does look pretty close. 

Now the seatbelt issue...something that is required by airline regulation..with a 7 month bellybump..she would have a hard time.
If she was travelling by car, the law requires him to be properly secured in a car seat..you can't have a "practically" two year old bouncing around if there is an
emergency.



> Blackwood was eventually told by a supervisor that she was asked to leave because *she refused to put a seatbelt around her son's lap – a claim she disputes.*
> "If I had the chance to put a seatbelt over him I would," she said, noting that she'd do "anything" so as to not delay the flight.


Hmmmm..if you watch her interview with CTVnews..at 0:18 she confirms "he's just a 2yr old"....

if that is the case, then she should have bought him a half price ticket in a seat next to her where the lap belt could have been...(or maybe not?) put around him during taxi and takeoff...

So the bottom line in this incident, that passengers have gone on social media and are calling United (and it's airline partner that operated this flight)
as unprofessional, unreasonable and unapologetic....did I forget another word that starts with "un"?

*I think we need the guy with the broken guitar back to sing a new song..maybe even a duet with Ms. Blackwood..*

*'UNITED KICKED MY BABY OFF THEIR PLANE"*

if the song goes viral, she can ask for crowd funding and an apology from United, who may or not decide to compensate her with a free seat for
her little boy next time she flies with them..there..I think I did a fair job in settling this controversy?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment...s-kicked-off-flight-over-crying-son-1.2395235


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^


> So the bottom line in this incident, that passengers have gone on social media and are calling United (and it's airline partner that operated this flight)
> as unprofessional, unreasonable and unapologetic....did I forget another word that starts with "un"?
> 
> I think we need the guy with the broken guitar back to sing a new song..maybe even a duet with Ms. Blackwood..
> ...


 ... I was following up on this but the airline SkyWest (alliance with United) is not budging with either an apology or any compensation. 

And regarding the partnering with the guy with the broken guitar and getting crowdsource funding to get compensation, I don't think so ... social media works both ways - and for a starter, changing or lying about your story doesn't help her cause and neither will abusing crowdsource funding. She might just got herself a 10 minutes worth of fame though if there is anything positive that comes out from her side of an inaccurate story.


----------



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

ok, maybe I'm missing something, but where does "changing or lying about your story doesn't help" fit in?
Are we still on about whether he a baby or a toddler lol?
She referred to him as a 2 yr old but iirc he was 1 yr + 10 mths or something.. so, let me get this right, .. you're calling her a liar .. because why?


----------



## Cdnwife (Sep 10, 2013)

There is no discount for toddlers. I understand mom wanting to avoid having to purchase a ticket. I travelled while 5 months pregnant w an 18 month old. Not the best time of my life but flew w WestJet and they were very accommodating. Culture of the airline will make a difference.


----------



## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We may never know. The airline will keep silent on the issue, as they should. The woman in question is obviously talking to everyone who will listen. Who knows whether her perspective is factual or exaggerated. 

I cannot see the airline bringing the plane back to the gate for a minor issue. These planes are busy all day, there is a great deal of pressure to keep to the schedule.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

We flew from Toronto to Saskatchewan on Air Canada, when my son was barely two years old.

The "terrible twos" stalked us that day,...... my friends.

It followed us and without warning struck us a mighty lightning jolt from the heavens.

Our usually quiet young boy turned into a terrible beast........we never witnessed until then.

He thrust and he twitched. He cried and he bitched. He wrestled against us with the strength of ten men.

The plane was full......there was nowhere to roam. The both of us wished we had never left home.

But we somehow survived through the "tut tuts" and stares. We arrived in the Toon with a woeful story to share.

We dreaded our flight home for what would it bring ? But when we had boarded we were tempted to sing.

A praise to the flight attendant or one of the crew. Which one of them arranged it we never knew.

Our seats were in the front row with leg room to spare, and our little guy had a place with his toys to play there.

Someone must have put an X by our name..........and said "Give them all the room you can spare if you want to stay sane."


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mrPPincer said:


> ok, maybe I'm missing something, but where does "changing or lying about your story doesn't help" fit in?
> Are we still on about whether he a baby or a toddler lol?
> She referred to him as a 2 yr old but iirc he was 1 yr + 10 mths or something.. so, let me get this right, .. you're calling her a liar .. because why?


No, IMO, she wasn't exactly lying about her toddler, but in her haste to reply she did mention on camera that he's a two year old VS "he's almost two".

My daughter who lives in AZ, flies once a year to visit my ex and me in Canada, and she has a lot more experience with squirming kids on a long flight.
I will be asking her opinion on what she did when her toddlers were that age. I do remember her telling me that she had to buy extra seats for her
daughter and son and she carried snacks for them to keep them busy.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fraser said:


> We may never know. The airline will keep silent on the issue, as they should. The woman in question is obviously talking to everyone who will listen. Who knows whether her perspective is factual or exaggerated.
> 
> I cannot see the airline bringing the plane back to the gate for a minor issue. These planes are busy all day, there is a great deal of pressure to keep to the schedule.


It all depends on where the airline was in the pre-takeoff procedures I would think. I can't see the captain lying about having to take on more fuel..that is a calculation that is very important in pre takeoff checks. Most of us remember the "Gimli Glider incident" many years ago when a fuel calculation error converting pounds of fuel to liters resulted in the aircraft running out of fuel on a flight from Montreal to Winnipeg..and the captain (hailed a hero to save the plane) remembered there was a a old WWII landing strip in Gimli Manitoba and he came down with NO POWER in a hard landing but saved the plane and the passengers..that was another close call for AC similar to the recent Halifax incident this year.

Now, it IS also possible that after taxi-ing to the apron off the runway waiting for takeoff, that the captain made that decision to turn around and go back to the gate and along with the incident with the toddler misbehaving in the cabin, the captain and fight crew decided to put her off the plane to avoid further disruption... but I don't know..I wasn't there..:biggrin:


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> We flew from Toronto to Saskatchewan on Air Canada, when my son was barely two years old.
> 
> The "terrible twos" stalked us that day,...... my friends.
> 
> ...


Terrible twos....we've all been there..got the t-shirt and maybe "Moma" should have been better prepared? 
BTW..this sounds like the first draft of the lyrics to "UNITED KICKED MY BABY OFF THEIR PLANE!":biggrin:
But searching for rhyming couplets..its' a bit harder to sing.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Terrible twos....we've all been there..got the t-shirt and maybe "Moma" should have been better prepared?
> BTW..this sounds like the first draft of the lyrics to "UNITED KICKED MY BABY OFF THEIR PLANE!":biggrin:
> But searching for rhyming couplets..its' a bit harder to sing.


But then she could have taken the train with "little Johnny"
This brings to mind, a movie (dark comedy) called "THROW MOMMA FROM THE TRAIN"



> Momma: [On the train] I'm getting the hell out of here!
> [Stands up and walks off]
> Momma: Too god damn sultry in here.


and finally..if Paul Simon can sing about "50 ways to leave your lover"...there could have been 50 ways she could have gotten back on..



> Just slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan, Stan
> Don't need to be coy, Roy, just listen to me
> Hop on the bus, Gus, don't need to discuss much
> Just drop off the key, Lee, and get yourself free


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

mrPPincer said:


> ok, maybe I'm missing something, but where does "changing or lying about your story doesn't help" fit in?
> Are we still on about whether he a baby or a toddler lol?
> She referred to him as a 2 yr old but iirc he was 1 yr + 10 mths or something.. so, let me get this right, .. you're calling her a liar .. because why?


 ... not the "exact 2 years old age" of the baby ... she claimed the baby was "crying on her lap" when instead he was screaming and/or running up and down in the aisle. I can picture it as being a waitress for many years, I have seen my share of screaming and running little terrors in a restaurant. Many understandable parents do try their best to calm the crying babies and properly sit their kids (and I do assist whenever I can with toys and colouring books handy) but then there are those instances where it's almost impossible and the parent has to take the baby/kid out of the restaurant for a cool-off. 

So let's be practical, the airline don't take the pleasure of returning to the docks just to kick a woman and her baby off a plane. Their number priority is safety for ALL passengers. Now it's beginning to make sense why SkyWest is adamant on no apology nor refund. It was an unfortunate and unpleasant incident for that woman and her baby/toddler to be kicked off no doubt. If I read further, she did make it to her destination on another flight though so I'm not sure how social media is going to help her with the truth of what really happened out.


----------



## quynn75 (May 31, 2015)

*United Breaks Guiteas*

There´s song 2: ) for everyone who loves it:

UNITED BREAKS GUITARS 2


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> So let's be practical, the airline don't take the pleasure of returning to the docks just to kick a woman and her baby off a plane. * Their number priority is safety for ALL passengers. Now it's beginning to make sense why SkyWest is adamant on no apology nor refund*. It was an unfortunate and unpleasant incident for that woman and her baby/toddler to be kicked off no doubt. If I read further, she did make it to her destination on another flight though so I'm not sure how social media is going to help her with the truth of what really happened out.


 ^^^ True. I think she is still hoping to receive some kind of compensation from Skywest/United for her inconvenience...you know similar to what airlines offer passengers when they are bumped due to overbooking...free flight or major discount or something like that...I doubt that she will get United to refund the cost of her new ticket..but they should refund the cost of her original ticket...unless United rebooked her on another flight?

it's so confusing...I jiust hope she doesn't continue taking her son on her band appearances with her...bad enough with one brat running around the plane.*.can you imagine two of these a 4 yr old and a new 2 yr old.*....if I happened to be unlucky to be a passenger on their plane...I would probably want to get "kicked' off the plane myself.:rolleyes2:

Momma really needs to get her act together with parenting...bring snacks and some kind of amusement for "little Johnny" (pocket video game or somesuch) to keep them occupied..and who knows..maybe the kid isn't diaper trained yet and needed a change at the most inconvenient time as the plane is taxi-ing on the tarmac.

The regulations require you to be buckled up with your seat in the upmost position and listen to the arm waving stewardess........ (whoops!..that may not be politically correct these days?...
...ok flight crew member?) demonstating use of the seat belt and exits..trying to talk over "little Johnny" screaming,crying, kicking and running up and down the isles....good grief!:very_drunk:
and you can't wear headsets or anything to drown out the noise at that time...I know that from experience..everyone HAS to listen to their safety procedures and pay attention.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^


> .. bad enough with one brat running around the plane..can
> you imagine two of these a 4 yr old and a new 2 yr old.....if I happened to be unlucky to be a passenger on their plane*...I would probably want to get "kicked' off the plane myself*.


 ... I bet you would do anything to be kicked off that plane in that situation. :biggrin:


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ ... I bet you would do anything to be kicked off that plane in that situation. :biggrin:


Well, you have to be careful..otherwise you can be charged when they haul you off to the airport police. Arguing, smoking in the washroom, and disobeying the air crew can result in charges being laid and fines and disruption of your flight schedule...

so unless you can feign a medical emergency (*while on the tarmac*..before takeoff) you have to cringe, and grit your teeth,
and wish that there was a law against taking babies on aircraft..

not that I have anything against them (babies and toddlers)..but if they are unruly...they should be charged too..like
the rest of the paying passengers.....

of course "little Johnny" was NOT a paying passenger and a minor..so he got away with the disturbance..scot free.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^


> Well, you have to be careful..otherwise you can be charged when they haul you off to the airport police. Arguing, smoking in the washroom, and disobeying the air crew can result in charges being laid and fines and disruption of your flight schedule...


 ... and I don't blame the airline for imposing these rules ... unlikely chance of anything happening to me as I would be the most well-behaved passenger on the plane since the minute I'm settled in my seat, I'll be getting ready to doze off unless someone is yanking/kicking behind me in which case, I'll give them the angry-eye. :uncomfortableness:



> but if they are unruly...they should be charged too..like the rest of the paying passengers.....


 .. not the kid, parent(s)' responsibility always.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am surprised nobody else on the flight had any ideas on how to amuse the little guy and settle him down a bit.

Maybe it was a plane load of singles. A plane load of grandparents would have had the lad calmed in 30 seconds flat.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> I am surprised nobody else on the flight had any ideas on how to amuse the little guy and settle him down a bit.
> 
> *Maybe it was a plane load of singles*. A plane load of grandparents would have had the lad calmed in 30 seconds flat.


A disguised joke methinks? I doubt that a planeload of singles..would be on this flight they would be going to the singles destinations in Jamaica and other sun spots where they can party all night long.
I think it was a milk run (no pun intended) three dimensional "bus" to her eventual destination and doesn't appear to be a direct subsidairy of United.



> SKYWEST: The airline serves as a feeder airline, operating under contract with various major carriers. It flies as SkyWest Airlines in a partnership with Alaska Airlines, as United Express on behalf of United Airlines, as US Airways Express on behalf of US Airways, as Delta Connection on behalf of Delta Air Lines, and as American Eagle on behalf of American Airlines


----------



## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

sags said:


> I am surprised nobody else on the flight had any ideas on how to amuse the little guy and settle him down a bit....


If you listen to the whole CBC interview, the mother was not traveling alone. The infant's nanny was on board, but the airline didn't seat them together, which the mom says "happens a lot". Maybe not too bright a policy on the airline's part.


----------



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> If you listen to the whole CBC interview, the mother was not traveling alone. The infant's nanny was on board, but the airline didn't seat them together, which the mom says "happens a lot". Maybe not too bright a policy on the airline's part.


Well then....why couldn't the toddler sit on the nanny's lap if they were travelling together but not in adjacent seats? 
Maybe that's what he was kicking and screaming about...he wasn't comfortable with momma and her 7 month baby bump,
and what is a 2 yr old going to see out of the window seat anyway?


----------



## bobsander (Aug 4, 2015)

man, they suck big time! They lost my baggage twice!


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I predict that any airline that eliminates crying babies will see their ticket sales soar overnight.

Or as Robert Benchley put it "there are 2 ways to travel, first class or with children".


----------



## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Obviously you've never travelled first class. IN my experience there are quite a few children there.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Robert Benchley was an American humorist who made the above crack before air travel became common.


----------

