# Hacking and spying



## sags (May 15, 2010)

There were a couple of news documentaries by the CBC concerning the amount of computer hacking and security breaches going on these days.

Several prominent security experts were interviewed and what they had to say was eye opening.

It has been thought that Chinese hacking invaded the Nortel computers and supplied competitors with information that aided in the demise of the company.

The experts know that China and others have managed to infiltrate banks and government computers with trojan horse viruses which can give full control to the hackers once initiated.

In this news today...........that US drone brought down by the Iranians, was thought to have been hacked so controls were taken over by the Iranians and it was landed safely by them. Initially the US denied it.........but the release of camera footage today seems to support the Iranians did land the drone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...an-shows-footage-extracted-from-US-drone.html

One of the many concerns for security experts, is that corporations seeking lower cost alternative work forces are handing over all their secrets to the Chinese. Another concern is that electronic parts that are integral parts of computer systems may contain trojan viruses or other malware that can be controlled by the originating hackers.

The term............unintended consequences comes to mind.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm sure as there are more rogue "computer experts" out there worldwide..hacking is going to be commonplace, unless better encryption and protection of sensitive databases is continued to be developed. Someone got into the Pentagon computers a while ago. Not sure how much sensitive and secret information was lost, but they are spending millions to try and protect themselves. 

Interesting thing I heard a while ago was that the new C130J cargo planes that Canada ordered (from the US) were discovered to have fake Chinese made microelectronics on board. 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/09/f-vp-weston-hercules-counterfeit-chinese-parts.html

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/china-debuts-giant-transport/


and at this point in time..why should Canada spend Billions on the new F-35 when we could order Chinese made stealth fighters at a fraction of the
cost? 
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/10/china-stealth-first-flight/




> We don’t know. Nor do we know the state of the Falcon Eagle’s engine, avionics and weapons development. The origins of the fighter are equally murky, although superficial similarities to the U.S. F-22 and F-35 have fueled speculation in the West that B*eijing based the J-31′s design on blueprints reportedly stolen from the servers of at least six American aerospace subcontractors in 2009*.


So I believe,this is just the tip of the iceberg...if we allow them to use our technology to make goods cheaper for us...they will reverse engineer and build new versions for themselves as well.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

One of the experts said the Chinese hackers are incredibly patient.

They know they can't directly penetrate the security protocols at the top levels, so they start at very low employee levels, install an unnoticed trojan virus and slowly explore relevant documents and email contacts........gradually working around the perimeter and moving up the command chain one step at a time.

It takes years before they get access to what they are really after.........and most times the victims don't even know they are being exploited, until it is too late.

I remember when companies jealously guarded their secrets........and now they just hand them over to save money.

The Chinese are not our friends or allies. They have only one interest and that is the survival of their empire.

Our generation may be known in the history books as the one who handed over the keys to the kingdom.


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## Jim9guitars (May 5, 2012)

It kind of makes the days of paper files in a locked file cabinet look good. Maybe businesses should not have all of their computers connected to the internet.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

The Russians have always been in the spy business. Their embassies around the world, especially in Canada have quite a few "employees" working as spys. Being immune to prosecution and scrutiny, they operate a clandestine business in Canada to obtain industrial and military secrets. Money talks..and if they offer enough cash money to some individuals, they can learn a lot of secret and classified information in spite of our best efforts to keep them out of Russian and Chinese hands.

Our latest spy-traitor (Navy sub-lieutenant) is going to be sentenced today. Crown is asking for 20 years plus a fine of $111k. The $111K is the money that he admitted to receiving from the Russians in exchange for vital Norad secrets. You would think that someone and an officer in our military would be beyond reproach..but his personal life and disatisfaction with his job had a lot to do with it. Not sure how much of the $111K fine the Crown can collect, but if he has any kind of assets, once convicted, those will be seized.

He probably won't need necessities of life like food and shelter serving up to 20 years in a military prison..and when he gets out eventually, he won't be able to resume his career in the military either. I hope he enjoyed his bribes while they lasted, because if he was dissatisfied with his life up to now, it's gonna get a lot harder for him from now on staring at 4 walls for the next 20 years!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

So our navy spy (ex lieutenant) got 20 years and will be required to pay back the $111k in restitution, and his pay from the day he got arrested to his conviction will be docked.
$111k divided by 20 years...wow! that's equivalent to $5500 a year he will be paying back while serving time in Kingston pen.
..and they say that crime doesn't pay... :rolleyes2:

He will be 61 when he gets out....and have to look for a job. No military pension for him and they may be garnishing his CPP/OAS to pay back the $111K fine as well.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Chinese hackers are in the news again.

Apparently, it is the Chinese military this time, and they have invaded computers in companies all over the place.

Of course, we did hand them the keys.

Imagine you are the CEO of a big company and want the Chinese to manufacture goods for you.

You send them the blueprints and specs...........and email addresses for a bunch of engineers and company managers.

The email addresses were the open door. From there the hackers can gain access and move around in the company.

Apple assembles the IPhone in China..............all the parts are made in China...........the engineering for all the parts is in China.

Ergo...........the Chinese could manufacture Iphones identical to Apple's Iphones, without Apple...............but Apple couldn't manufacture anything without China.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Some say to reduce risk it is best to use one computer for banking & not use the computer for anything else.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

More recent reports on hacking and spying allegedly coming from China. A Canadian company Telvent was attacked by what seems to be a Chinese military establishment
(People's Liberation Army), who seem to be blamed in the latest series of attacks.
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/09/...r-intrusion-at-energy-industry-giant-telvent/


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## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

Are you guys seriously naive enough to think that the US and Canada don't do the same thing?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Chinese hackers are in the news again.
> 
> Apparently, it is the Chinese military this time, and they have invaded computers in companies all over the place.
> 
> ...


 ... and does the consumers' not fit somewhere in this equation?


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Find and read 'The Sleuth Investor' by Avner Mandleman, a former TGAM periodic columnist.

You will never look at sleuthing the same way again. Think of it as advantageous 'outsider' trading. 

I do not presently have the time to devote to the methods he has attuned me to, but once I reach my planned early retirement lifesyle in a little while, this is an area I can see me spending some of my time.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... and does the *consumers' not fit somewhere in this equation*?


The consumer represents a market and PROFIT to the multi-nationals. Consumer demand for the product (ie: the rise of the Iphones and the society's evolution 
to use these products in their everyday lives), the cost of production, and the profits to be made from these products drive world demand for them.

Sure the US could manufacture the Iphones themselves, but they would have to *pay more production costs..which would result in less profits overall*.
....less profitss to the stockholders.

If the cost of the products went up realistically to reflect production in NA at the current wages and benefits..that Iphone or Blackberry could cost 2-3 times as much as
if it is made in China at their wage rates. Translation: not as affordable as the product is currently. 
The North American multi-nationals are exploiting this but at the same time causing the Chinese economy to grow while the NA production economy is on the decline.

As the Chinese economy grows due to mass production of consumer goods destined for NA and the world, their living standards are improved and they become an urban
society dependent on oil. The world's oil supplies have already peaked. Any oil being produced now is very expensive oil and will continue to rise as supply and demand
increases. So in reality, we will be paying more for those Iphones in other hidden costs..the price of oil.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lonewolf said:


> Some say to reduce risk it is best to use one computer for banking & not use the computer for anything else.



years ago a prominent online broker manager told me to do this.

he has 5 computers at home. One never even goes online.

he used to wipe the kids' hard drives every month. But now they're teens with advanced IP skills, they each have their own machines & they take much better care.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> years ago a prominent online broker manager told me to do this.
> he has 5 computers at home. One never even goes online.


These days, this problem can be solved by using virtualization.
I have Microsoft Virtual PC 2007.
Each of the virtual "PCs" cost additional licenses and more memory, but the TCO is lower than purchasing and maintaining 5 separate computers.
A virtual machine offers the same level of protection as a separate PC because the virtual PC cannot "see" its host or each other (unless you allow it to).


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> A virtual machine offers the same level of protection as a separate PC because the virtual PC cannot "see" its host or each other (unless you allow it to).


but surely could not nest 5 PCs, unlike those carved eastern european nesting dolls

besides, he told me this "years ago" when we didn't even know you each:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> besides, he told me this "years ago" when we didn't even know you


Yes, indeed, to be fair, I used to have 2 separate PCs at home for my online banking, and general Internet browsing up until about 2005 or so.
The work laptop, on which I used secure financial applications at work, was locked down by the company with an RSA key, USB and CD drive was disabled, etc.
It was pretty much useless for anything else.

Therefore, I had 3 computers at one time.


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