# Kevin O'Leary and FTX



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Last year, Kevin O'Leary became a paid spokesman for FTX (the crypto exchange). He was also a crypto lobbyist and, according to his interviews on CNBC, was meeting with US government people to represent the interests of FTX.

He had an equity stake in FTX, which has now failed. I wonder how much money he lost? Private equity values for crypto-linked ventures were heavily inflated over the last couple of years, so I'm guessing that Kevin lost a lot of money.

Kevin O'Leary is a loser in general, but now he's also a crypto loser.

Remember though, Kevin was a mouthpiece -- a public face -- for FTX. I'm really curious what he was saying publicly, even while investors were pulling all their money and there was a run on the deposits. I hope he didn't get wrapped up in any criminal activity.

The DOJ and SEC are now investigating potential criminal activity at FTX


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

FTX was heavily involved in sports advertising, including arenas, teams, and major league baseball umpires attire.........too funny.

The baseball umpire.....arbitrator of the rules of the game, decision maker, the authority on the ball diamond.........wearing a uniform plastered with FTX logos.

Gotta hand it to SBF........he had a wicked sense of humor.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

SBF and Gary Gensler are closely connected since MIT days. Alemeda Research also has deep ties with both

They were working on loopholes to give FTX advantages in the US. SBF was one of the largest donors to Joe Biden

Republican Senators are calling for an investigation into Gary Gensler now


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund lost $200 million according to reports.

The Quebec Caisse pension fund lost $150 million in the Celsius debacle.

These aren't temporary losses or swings in asset values. This money is gone....as in vanished forever to China or somewhere.

It is time for a shakeup in these major employee pension funds.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Good.....Gensler did an interview today on CNBC and one of the interview panel remarked that he appeared to do every interview they have with him at his home with his fireplace in the background. One remarked live........doesn't he ever go to the office ?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> They were working on loopholes to give FTX advantages in the US. SBF was one of the largest donors to Joe Biden


And from what I can tell, Kevin O'Leary was helping push FTX's agenda to American politicians


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> One remarked live........doesn't he ever go to the office ?


Most government and public service in Ottawa work from home now.

I've never seen 80% of the people in my building


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Kevin O'Leary is Canada's version of Cathie Wood.

It is too bad Johnnie Carson's sidekick isn't still around. He promoted Alpo dog food as fine dining for decades and would have made a killing pumping crypto.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Kevin O'Leary is Canada's version of Cathie Wood.


Kevin is a bit more crooked. He ran a crappy company during the tech bubble and misrepresented the financial position. It resulted in a hugely overpriced acquisition, and many lawsuits by angry investors. Kevin O'Leary almost destroyed Mattel, the toy company that bought his sham of a company. He settled the lawsuits so we don't really know if he was guilty of the crime or not, but it sure LOOKS like Kevin cheated investors.

Cathie has never cheated and stolen from investors.

I would call Kevin more of a charlatan, slimeball and probably a crook.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I would call Kevin more of a charlatan, slimeball and probably a crook.


Surprising he didn't have more success in politics


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

sags said:


> The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund lost $200 million according to reports.
> 
> The Quebec Caisse pension fund lost $150 million in the Celsius debacle.
> 
> ...


$200 million of $220 some billion is not a big enough loss to bring about a shakeup.

OTPP's net assets total $227.7 billion at mid-year 2021


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)




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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Mike Novogratz on how SBF charmed all the big investors.

Thing is people like Novogratz had Dunning-Kruger effect and fell for the scams that people with far more knowledge tried to warm them about - Solana, Luna, unregulated centralized exchanges are well-known risks where you have to trust a central entity - the opposite of a decentralized blockchain

This guy has a LUNA tattoo but dismissed Cardano (because it didn't pre-sale to VC Billionaires like him) LUNA was the first to crash to 0


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590688126300786689
Lol


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590784204086063104


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I always thought O'Leary was a flake, and that was confirmed when he started pumping crypto.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...and I'm still not convinced he wasn't piloting that boat.....


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> ...and I'm still not convinced he wasn't piloting that boat.....


 ... I can picture O'Leary yelling "my wife did it! my wife did it! my wife did it!!!!! ... okay?!!!!! Now pizz off!!!!"


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

pwm said:


> I always thought O'Leary was a flake, and that was confirmed when he started pumping crypto.


 .. I didn't know he was pumping crypto but always thought he was a flake right at the beginning ... especially starting with that "reality" show called what? Dragon's Den or Shark Tank? Never watched any episode since 15 minutes of the Apprentice already made me puke, starring a similar character (only worser) of you know what - a USA famous EX-POTUS.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> Most government and public service in Ottawa work from home now.
> 
> I've never seen 80% of the people in my building


Service levels from government agencies these days is absolutely brutal. Excruciatingingly slow and inefficient.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

pwm said:


> I always thought O'Leary was a flake, and that was confirmed when he started pumping crypto.


For sure. But I also want to know if he played a role in getting OTPP invested into FTX.

Was Kevin the salesman or agent who made that happen? For a while he was appearing on CNBC all the time and endorsing FTX.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Service levels from government agencies these days is absolutely brutal. Excruciatingingly slow and inefficient.


Thank Trudeau

Hospitals are excruciatingly slow as well


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> Most government and public service in Ottawa work from home now.
> 
> I've never seen 80% of the people in my building





Gator13 said:


> Service levels from government agencies these days is absolutely brutal. Excruciatingingly slow and inefficient.





m3s said:


> Thank Trudeau
> 
> Hospitals are excruciatingly slow as well


Agreed. The Canadian healthcare system is completely broken. Well past the point where throwing money at it will fix it.

Canada has waaaaay too many civil servants. Extreme bloat that is slowly choking the country.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Agreed. The Canadian healthcare system is completely broken. Well past the point where throwing money at it will fix it.
> 
> Canada has waaaaay too many civil servants. Extreme bloat that is slowly choking the country.


Both are worse than I ever imagined. Instead of appointments now they say call back next month or "we'll call you in a few weeks"

I overheard a guy venting the other day about dealing with public servants in Ottawa "It's like if I went to the Canadian Tire parts department and the guy at the desk nods and goes out back. You assume he's getting something for you but you're not entirely sure what he's doing. Then you see him go out the other door to go to lunch or something while you're standing there waiting"

Pretty much this is how Canadian government operates in Ottawa


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

*Crypto Confidence Soars After CEO Defrauds Customers Just Like Real Bank*


https://www.theonion.com/crypto-confidence-soars-after-ceo-defrauds-customers-ju-1849773647


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sam Bankman-Fried donated to both political parties, as industry lobbyists and the wealthy often do to cover their bases and influence politicians.

_If the House flips to Republicans, Rep. Patrick McHenry, the current GOP committee ranking member, will likely become the chairman. *The Crypto Innovation PAC, which is financed in part by a separate group that saw millions in donations from Bankman-Fried, backed McHenry’s successful 2022 reelection campaign.* _*The FTX CEO donated more than $30 million toward the 2022 midterms, according to Federal Election Commission records. *


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Both he and the girl are directly connected to the Democrats and the SEC

Both family connections and professionally through MIT

He was one of the largest donors to Joe Biden - $800M not $30


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

sags said:


> The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund lost $200 million according to reports.
> 
> The Quebec Caisse pension fund lost $150 million in the Celsius debacle.


I believe the operators of these funds should be jailed for derreliction of fiduciary duty and barred from ever managing money again. Crypto is not an investment. These funds would be exposed to less risk if the operators were speculating on the oil markets.

On the other hand, there are a lot of young people who consider speculating to be investing and, two years ago, would have been upset if crypto was not mixed into the pension fund.

The future is not bright. lol!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Bankers and politicians who embrace crypto are only interested in the fees and donations they can get.

We accept bitcoins..........send bitcoin to a third party, who will convert them to cash, and we get the cash.

They would accept dung beetles if a company would convert them to cash.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

If they bought crypto even a few years ago they'd be up over 10x

FTX is not BTC or ETH which the US now considers commodity

Boomers gonna boomer


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

TomB16 said:


> I believe the operators of these funds should be jailed for derreliction of fiduciary duty and barred from ever managing money again. Crypto is not an investment. These funds would be exposed to less risk if the operators were speculating on the oil markets.
> 
> On the other hand, there are a lot of young people who consider speculating to be investing and, two years ago, would have been upset if crypto was not mixed into the pension fund.


There's an awesome documentary from PBS Frontline, I'll post it below. It explains some things about how pensions operate, including the pension board members. Many of them are regular people chosen from among the workers. This is a nice idea, since they are the people the pension represents BUT it makes pensions vulnerable to financial con men and charlatans.

And the salespeople know this, so they prey on pension funds and sweet talk the board members. Pensions are known to be suckers and idiots.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

FTX was hacked (inside job or otherwise) and emails/SMS sent out urging users to log in

$5M fund withdrawn and tracked on ethereum. This was the exchange the US government/SEC was working with to regulate DeFi

There's a lot more to this story than we know yet. What are the chances Joe Biden's biggest donor goes to jail?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

There's a Twitter space with people tracking everything in real time

Lots of big names, exchanges and mainstream media in there.

Elon comes in and just says DOGE to the moon


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

james4beach said:


> There's an awesome documentary from PBS Frontline, I'll post it below. It explains some things about how pensions operate, including the pension board members. Many of them are regular people chosen from among the workers. This is a nice idea, since they are the people the pension represents BUT it makes pensions vulnerable to financial con men and charlatans.
> 
> And the salespeople know this, so they prey on pension funds and sweet talk the board members. Pensions are known to be suckers and idiots.


HOOPP has a pension board comprised of representatives of employers and employees, and they make decisions but they have nothing to do with the investing part of the plan.

Some joint decisions they have made in the past, were to encourage people to retire early by providing bridge benefits when the fund was well funded and the employers wanted to attract younger employees or reduce headcounts. On the other side, when the funding level fell due to stock value declines, they halted cost of living increases, eliminated early retirement bridge benefits, and raised contribution levels. When the fund returned to surplus they reinstated the cost of living benefits and paid all lost benefits retroactively to catch retirees up.

I think all the stakeholders should be involved in the decisions, because it is their money.

They should not be making actual investment decisions though. They hire competent people to do that.





__





Home


The Healthcare of Ontario Pension Plan (HOOPP) provides a lifetime pension plan at retirement. We’re one of the largest defined benefit pension plans in Canada.




hoopp.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

As a result of the GM restructuring, the union took over the healthcare plan for hourly employees. 

The company funded the plan initially and the union took it over.

Since then, the plan has done very well......in fact much better than expected or most health care plans.

The plan is very comprehensive and one of the best existing plans for coverage. It is far superior to most plans because the members decide the benefits.

They have continually expanded coverage and lowered premiums and co-pays, eliminating them completely for retirees. 

They poll members on what benefits should be enhanced. The investment of the fund is done by professionals and it is has performed very well.

Funds can exist and be successful if they are properly funded and managed.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> As a result of the GM restructuring, the union took over the healthcare plan for hourly employees.
> 
> The company funded the plan initially and the union took it over.
> 
> Since then, the plan has done very well......in fact much better than expected or most health care plans.


So the bankruptcy was a good thing?

I suppose it is when the government funds it


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Governments are still collecting taxes from the restructuring......long after the loans were fully recovered.

Everyone knows the loans were a great investment for the government that will pay dividends long into the future.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Governments are still collecting taxes from the restructuring......long after the loans were fully recovered.
> 
> Everyone knows the loans were a great investment for the government that will pay dividends long into the future.


Uh huh saggy. $500M per GM employee for cars that are now built in Korea and Mexico. As Elon would say "Let that sink in!"

"One automotive journalist in favour of the bailout recently argued that such matters should be driven by hardnosed business insight and not ideology. I agree. *No prudent Canadian bank would have loaned GM and Chrysler billions of their depositors money back in 2009.* That only occurred in the softer, political realm with a $5.5 billion loss. Meanwhile, U.S. taxpayers are out $23.8-billion according to a recent U.S. Treasury Department report to Congress."

"For supporters of the bailout, their error was not only mathematical but conceptual: *too many were romantic about particular corporations.* But companies fall and new ones arise to take their place. The critical and useful role for government is to create the policy framework that helps ensure a vibrant economy, not to micro-manage layoffs at a particular corporation."

Sounds like the boomers were in love with a brand and screwed over future generations yet again with their lack of math and logic






The government auto bailout: $474,000 per GM employee: op-ed


With sales and profits up at General Motors, proponents of the 2009 automotive bailout for GM (and Chrysler) now assert the taxpayer-financed rescue was a success. In a visit to Michigan in late January, U.S. president Barack Obama argued the deal saved jobs. Canadian politicians, including...




www.fraserinstitute.org




.









GM Canada: A 100-year history of benefitting from taxpayer dollars - Macleans.ca


Canadians have good reason to feel General Motors owes them. Because it has—many times.




www.macleans.ca







https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/loans-canada-account-finance-auto-sector-bailout-2009-gm-chrysler-1.4722529


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

That is an analysis from the Fraser Institute back in 2010. The Harper government sold their remaining GM shares in 2014 for $3.26 billion US.

Since 2009, the government has reaped the benefits of taxes from the auto maker, employees, and suppliers.

The unpaid debt mentioned in the other article is primarily for Chrysler.

Most economists have concluded the loans were a successful investment for the government.









Canada's sale of GM stock made $3.26B: U.S. regulator document


A filing with the U.S. securities regulator says the Canadian government unloaded its remaining stake in General Motors for about C$3.26 billion.



www.ctvnews.ca


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> Sam Bankman-Fried donated to both political parties, as industry lobbyists and the wealthy often do to cover their bases and influence politicians.


You "forgot" to say that 95% of his funding went to the Democrats:

_Bankman-Fried has supported Republicans during this cycle, primarily through his $2 million contribution to the blockchain and cryptocurrency-focused GMI super PAC. But the bulk of his giving, including $27 million to the Protect Our Future super PAC and $6 million to the House Majority super PAC, has gone to support Democrats. Bankman-Fried told Forbes last month that “much of this was for primaries, rather than D vs R general elections” ($33 million of his contributions were made during the first four months of 2022.) _


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> You "forgot" to say that 95% of his funding went to the Democrats:
> 
> _Bankman-Fried has supported Republicans during this cycle, primarily through his $2 million contribution to the blockchain and cryptocurrency-focused GMI super PAC. But the bulk of his giving, including $27 million to the Protect Our Future super PAC and $6 million to the House Majority super PAC, has gone to support Democrats. Bankman-Fried told Forbes last month that “much of this was for primaries, rather than D vs R general elections” ($33 million of his contributions were made during the first four months of 2022.) _


FTX is very well connected to the SEC and the Dems. SBF is more of the face but not the only one

FTX was given special access to SEC and new regulation were heavily written in FTX favour behind closed doors. When crypto world caught wind they dumped them hence their liquidity issues now

FTX started that whole game as they are the ones who crashed 3AC which brought down Celsius/Voyager (which FTX then acquired)


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

FTX was just another Democrat money laundering operation.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> FTX was just another Democrat money laundering operation.


Yes

There are now allegations that democrate funds were being recycled back through FTX

SBF spends most of his time playing League of Legends online games even today.

He's the perfect scape goat but not the mastermind


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Yes
> 
> There are now allegations that democrate funds were being recycled back through FTX
> 
> ...


 ... I didn't know a gun was held to SBF's head by the Democrats to set up this massive (and hardly elaborate) crypto-scam.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I didn't know a gun was held to SBF's head by the Democrats to set up this massive (and hardly elaborate) crypto-scam.


Of course not

It was definitely elaborate though. We're talking about billions of dollars and very close relationships with US government

Lobbying is just how the US government and regulation works


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto is crap and always has been.

There will be more debacles.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Crypto is crap and always has been.
> 
> There will be more debacles.


These are centralized exchanges doing exactly what legacy banks do. If everyone withdrew their cash or gold from digital accounts they would learn it doesn't actually exist

Crypto itself is not the problem. But we already know you can't understand the concept or the difference between the 2


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You clearly don't understand the monetary system.

If banks had a run, they would get all the dollars they need from the central bank, because they have real assets as collateral.

Crypto has no central bank. SBF tried to pretend he was the central bank for crypto but we can see how that worked out.

The only way crypto could have value is if it was backed 1-1 with USD and that would be rather pointless because you might as well use digital USD.

There is no use case for crypto that makes any sense in the real world.

As one crypto failure follows another, the pumpers are running out of plausible arguments and are left with nonsensical jibber jabber.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Billions of dollars have left FTX through a backdoor opening, which was pre-developed for just such a purpose.

The law is coming for SBF and the others involved. The pumpers and promoters of FTX are in the line of fire.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> You clearly don't understand the monetary system.


Says the highschool dropout who thinks inflation is good for GICs and that wages are a small % cost for most businesses



sags said:


> If banks had a run, they would get all the dollars they need from the central bank, because they have real assets as collateral.


So they would create the money they need out of nowhere



sags said:


> Crypto has no central bank. SBF tried to pretend he was the central bank for crypto but we can see how that worked out.


Yes FTX acted as a central exchange. You still confuse this basic concept which has been explained too many times



sags said:


> The only way crypto could have value is if it was backed 1-1 with USD and that would be rather pointless because you might as well use digital USD.


The same USD that you said the central banks create out of nowhere to give to back the fractional reserve banks?



sags said:


> There is no use case for crypto that makes any sense in the real world.


Probably not during your lifetime. Might as well spend your remaining time trying to convince people so? My grandparent never saw the use case for the internet either.



sags said:


> As one crypto failure follows another, the pumpers are running out of plausible arguments and are left with nonsensical jibber jabber.


Yes yes just like the "jibber jabber" from highschool dropouts like inflation is good for GICs and wages are a small % cost for most businesses


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Billions of dollars have left FTX through a backdoor opening, which was pre-developed for just such a purpose.
> 
> The law is coming for SBF and the others involved. The pumpers and promoters of FTX are in the line of fire.


Hopefully the law is coming. He spent all weekend playing League of Legends online so he doesn't seem concerned

He was the 2nd largest donor to Joe Biden so we can see why the US is not in any rush to arrest him


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

How deeply involved were you in these scams ?

You have often stated you were lending tokens to others for ridiculous interest rates.

You bragged about how much money you were making, and saying that bonds were for suckers.

You said you personally knew the developers and owners, had worked with them doing some testing, and trusted them completely.

How well did you know them and how involved were you in the scams ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It isn't just SBF going down with the ship. The authorities are going after the celebrity pumpers and anyone else who made gains from the scam.

All the donations from FTX for sponsorships or support are subject to be paid back to the bankruptcy court, as it is illegal to give away customer money.

People like Kevin O'Leary, sports like MLBA, politicians, charities, companies .......best get their cheque books out. 

The bankruptcy trustee is going to be demanding the money back soon.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> How deeply involved were you in these scams ?
> 
> You have often stated you were lending tokens to others for ridiculous interest rates.
> 
> ...


I'm talking about DeFi sags

You are confusing centralized exchanges with decentralized financial apps. DeFi is still working fine on truly dementalized blockchains. Solana is failing but it was always criticized as being centralized on FTX/Alemeda VC funding

You're basically criticizing something you have no knowledge or understanding of. Surely you have better things to spend your remaining years on. DeFi will not impact your life just like the internet did not impact my grandparents

Lots of people criticized the internet without having any knowledge of it. These are not intelligent people


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> It isn't just SBF going down with the ship. The authorities are going after the celebrity pumpers and anyone else who made gains from the scam.
> 
> All the donations from FTX for sponsorships or support are subject to be paid back to the bankruptcy court, as it is illegal to give away customer money.
> 
> ...


So does Joe Biden have to pay back the millions the FTX donated to him?

Nothing will happen to SBF. He was meeting with the SEC recently. This is how lobbying in the US works


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Remember though, Kevin was a mouthpiece -- a public face -- for FTX. I'm really curious what he was saying publicly, even while investors were pulling all their money and there was a run on the deposits. I hope he didn't get wrapped up in any criminal activity.


There are also a lot of social media influencers with a lot of subscribers/followers that were paid to promote FTX, that are now saying they were misled after proclaiming to their subscribers/followers how great FTX was. Kind of reminds me of the Fyre Festival debacle which was heavily promoted via influencers. 
Influencers are getting paid to promote something to their followers but how much accountability do they have for promoting products, events, whatever which end up being a fraud?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

milhouse said:


> There are also a lot of social media influencers with a lot of subscribers/followers that were paid to promote FTX, that are now saying they were misled after proclaiming to their subscribers/followers how great FTX was. Kind of reminds me of the Fyre Festival debacle which was heavily promoted via influencers.
> Influencers are getting paid to promote something to their followers but how much accountability do they have for promoting products, events, whatever which end up being a fraud?


Not just social media - mainstream media pushed his narrative as well while ignoring all others

CNBC constantly hyped him up including Jim Cramer. NYT already posted an interview with him that paints him in a sympathetic light. Is that how they covered Bernie Madoff or other criminals?

He is deeply connected to Democrats and SEC through family and MIT who are now using this to push regulations. Elizabeth Warren is already screaming about it - who is connected to his mother.

FTX was also partnered with the WEF.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

milhouse said:


> There are also a lot of social media influencers with a lot of subscribers/followers that were paid to promote FTX, that are now saying they were misled after proclaiming to their subscribers/followers how great FTX was


That's true, but I think Kevin was more than just an influencer. He was pushing the FTX agenda to US government people, so I think he was a lobbyist.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The wealthy believe that having money means you are really smart.

They are such easy prey for cons.






This aged well @Mr. Wonderful @Patrick Kim. #sambankmanfried #cryptocu... | TikTok


1.8K Likes, 122 Comments. TikTok video from Mercer Morrison (@mercermorrison): "This aged well @Mr. Wonderful @Patrick Kim. #sambankmanfried #cryptocurrency #crypto #cryptotok #ftx #cryptocrash #finance #investing #cryptodotcom #didntagewell". original sound - Mr. Wonderful.




vm.tiktok.com


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> Not just social media - mainstream media pushed his narrative as well while ignoring all others
> 
> CNBC constantly hyped him up including Jim Cramer. NYT already posted an interview with him that paints him in a sympathetic light. Is that how they covered Bernie Madoff or other criminals?
> 
> ...


The Democrats laundered money through FTX and Ukraine. This should be the biggest news story of the year but the media is ignoring it. A year from now all the stories will be scrubbed from the internet and most leftists will claim that it never happened or that if it did it was Trump's fault.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy each got over $2 million from FTX.

SBF was spreading money around like it wasn't his own money........oh wait.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy each got over $2 million from FTX.
> 
> SBF was spreading money around like it wasn't his own money........oh wait.


The bulk of it went to Democrats. That's why the media is ignoring it and why you are trying to deflect. We all know how they would have reacted if Trump had been involved.

Did the Big Guy get his 10%?


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## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> The bulk of it went to Democrats. That's why the media is ignoring it and why you are trying to deflect. We all know how they would have reacted if Trump had been involved.
> 
> Did the Big Guy get his 10%?


Riiiiight. The media is conspiring to ignore it, but we should all believe someone named "Happily Retired" on an internet forum.

I've read plenty of media articles about Paul Pelosi's alleged insider trading. That story wasn't ignored. It seems to me that if there was any factual basis to your assertions here, there would be some coverage from some credible media outlets. If there's none, you're summarily dismissed.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Riiiiight. The media is conspiring to ignore it, but we should all believe someone named "Happily Retired" on an internet forum.
> 
> I've read plenty of media articles about Paul Pelosi's alleged insider trading. That story wasn't ignored. It seems to me that if there was any factual basis to your assertions here, there would be some coverage from some credible media outlets. If there's none, you're summarily dismissed.


If you don't think the media has an agenda then your screen name was perfectly chosen. Well done.

But prove me wrong by linking a major media article that shows the close ties of FTX to the Democrat party and Ukraine.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

There is lots of news on FTX ties to politicians, celebrities, sports leagues, arenas.

There will be new revelations for the next year.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> If you don't think the media has an agenda then your screen name was perfectly chosen. Well done.
> 
> But prove me wrong by linking a major media article that shows the close ties of FTX to the Democrat party and Ukraine.


Ha! You want me to do your research for you.

Uninformed individual logs on to forum, espouses some half-baked theories. Gets challenged by another forum member. Then says, "Well, you go find evidence of my baseless claims."

Hilarious! 

Yes, much of the media has an agenda. But not all of the media is the same, with the same agenda. Therefore you should be able to find a few media sources with a shred of credibility to back up the drivel that you're spewing. 

Oh, you can't? It's not because "all media," it's because you're gullible and ill-informed.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Ha! You want me to do your research for you.


No, you made a claim that I know is inaccurate. It's your job to prove it, not mine.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> No, you made a claim that I know is inaccurate. It's your job to prove it, not mine.


You don't _*know*_, you latch on to unsubstantiated suspicions. That's how Trump built his base, people who cling to falsehoods and never look back.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> You don't _*know*_, you latch on to unsubstantiated suspicions. That's how Trump built his base, people who cling to falsehoods and never look back.


Are you referring to falsehoods like Russian collusion, Jussie Smollet, Nascar noose, Covington kids, etc? Or do you think that those things are still true?


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> Are you referring to falsehoods like Russian collusion, Jussie Smollet, Nascar noose, Covington kids, etc? Or do you think that those things are still true?


I don't think Russian collusion is a done deal yet. The others? I never went around on discussion forums popping off about them like some Chicken Little.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> I don't think Russian collusion is a done deal yet. The others? I never went around on discussion forums popping off about them like some Chicken Little.


I'm not popping off like Chicken Little, I'm just giving you some information. All the things I mentioned were heavily pushed by the mainstream media as fact in response to your claim about unsubstantiated suspicions.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> I'm not popping off like Chicken Little, I'm just giving you some information. All the things I mentioned were heavily pushed by the mainstream media as fact in response to your claim about unsubstantiated suspicions.


And I looked at all of those things and many others with a critical eye. I try to reserve judgement until most or all of the facts are at hand. I don't go around crying about the media not reporting on something that fits my narrative because there IS NO BASIS for the media to report the kind of baseless garbage that I espouse on a discussion forum.

See the difference?


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> And I looked at all of those things and many others with a critical eye. I try to reserve judgement until most or all of the facts are at hand. I don't go around crying about the media not reporting on something that fits my narrative because there IS NO BASIS for the media to report the kind of baseless garbage that I espouse on a discussion forum.
> 
> See the difference?


I originally stated that the media will quickly lose interest in this story because it doesn't fit their narrative. It looks like you agree with me abpout their bias. So, why were you arguing?


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> So, why were you arguing?


Good question. It's a lost cause. I shall leave the record of our exchange to speak for itself.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Riiiiight. The media is conspiring to ignore it, but we should all believe someone named "Happily Retired" on an internet forum.


It's mostly being covered on Twitter in real time by citizen journalism

You can roll your eyes at that if you want until your realize 95% of mainstream media is just based on tweets nowadays

The NYT interview with SBF is pretty clear puff piece. SBF is playing video games. There are clearly handlers operating in the background

It's pretty clear that donating funds to US/Bahamas government has benefits


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

m3s said:


> It's mostly being covered on Twitter in real time by citizen journalism
> 
> You can roll your eyes at that if you want until your realize 95% of mainstream media is just based on tweets nowadays
> 
> ...


Here we go again. So you trust Twitter "citizen journalism"??? Okay. That tells me plenty about you right there. 

And 95% of mainstream media being based on tweets, do you have anything to verify such a claim or are you just pulling figures out of your posterior?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Here we go again. So you trust Twitter "citizen journalism"??? Okay. That tells me plenty about you right there.
> 
> And 95% of mainstream media being based on tweets, do you have anything to verify such a claim or are you just pulling figures out of your posterior?


They verify people and information in real time

You realize that all the Ukraine news is coming from Telegram and Twitter right? And if you pay attention the vast majority (maybe more that 95%) of mainstream media is also based on Twitter nowadays. They used to talk all day about a Trump tweet

There is no investigative journalism anymore. Even mainstream companies have been hiring people off instagram etc instead of ones with journalist degrees. Social media just seems to show much more of a person's journalist capability than a degree

You must be living under a rock if this surprises you. Even military intelligence uses a lot of social media information


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

m3s said:


> There is no investigative journalism anymore.


That's just a flat out fabrication. There's not enough investigative journalism these days, but it certainly still exists.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> That's just a flat out fabrication. There's not enough investigative journalism these days, but it certainly still exists.


Twitter is doing a better job

The military is aware of this and call it open source int. Journalists are also aware of this - which is why they were all in the live FTX twitter spaces as verified insiders, prominent industry players and even ex-chiefs of staff from the US gov came to explain what they knew in long form all night spaces.

Not 30-second edited sound bites that everyone under the age of boomer is tired of because it is clearly biased with an agenda. Then the mainstream media chose to paint FTX and SBF is a very different light to the out-of-touch masses


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592358690350583809
Twitter also figured out SBFs cryptic tweets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592351944081047554


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> That's just a flat out fabrication. There's not enough investigative journalism these days, but it certainly still exists.


They'll go back 4 decades to find someone willing to make false rape accusations against Kavanaugh but won't lift a finger to investigate FTX or Hunter Biden. And the person who made false accusations against Kavanaugh changed her story 3 or 4 times. Investigative journalism is dead. A real journalist would have verified the story first and then questioned when it was repeatedly changed.


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

m3s said:


> Twitter is doing a better job
> 
> The military is aware of this and call it open source int. Journalists are also aware of this - which is why they were all in the live FTX twitter spaces as verified insiders, prominent industry players and even ex-chiefs of staff from the US gov came to explain what they knew in long form all night spaces.
> 
> ...


Twitter? The place where "Eli Lilly" was giving away insulin for free last week and it cost the real company billions of dollars?

The place where "Doug Ford" recently tweeted this?



http://imgur.com/RyI0Tf5



And then there's this candid admission:



http://imgur.com/P6osulq



I'll guess that this one had you all slathered up:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590696998944264193


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

^^ Yeah, man, that place is just a hotbed of integrity and truthiness! 

See ya!


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

HappilyRetired said:


> They'll go back 4 decades to find someone willing to make false rape accusations against Kavanaugh but won't lift a finger to investigate FTX or Hunter Biden. And the person who made false accusations against Kavanaugh changed her story 3 or 4 times. Investigative journalism is dead. A real journalist would have verified the story first and then questioned when it was repeatedly changed.


Dude, you forgot to mention Benghazi and Pizzagate. I have a feeling you were screaming those things from the mountaintops for years.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> ^^ Yeah, man, that place is just a hotbed of integrity and truthiness!
> 
> See ya!


Only boomers fall for that stuff

Like how grandmothers fall for phone scams but anyone younger knows it's a scam in 2 seconds. Twitter is probably not safe for boomers - enjoy the mainstream media


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592403915718656000

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591139694666215424
You can verify this information yourself on Elizabeth Warren's own website. Don't expect the mainstream media to cover this for the clueless boomers

"The legislation has been endorsed by dozens of law professors and economists including Austan Goolsbee of the University of Chicago, Emmanuel Saez of the University of California - Berkeley, and *Joe Bankman of Stanford University.* The Act was introduced with original cosponsors Senators Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), and Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.)"









Senator Warren Introduces Bill to Simplify Tax Filing | U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts


The Official U.S. Senate website of Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts



www.warren.senate.gov





Meanwhile SBF was meeting with Gary Gensler to write regulation that heavily favoured FTX. SBF, Gensler, Alemeda Research are all connected from MIT days


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1590717374801809409
This is only scratching the surface but I don't have time to spoon feed everything to the boomers.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> ^^ Yeah, man, that place is just a hotbed of integrity and truthiness!
> 
> See ya!


Please tell us which media you rely on. I'm sure we'll find a lack of integrity no matter who you depend on.

Or, just run away like you're suggesting.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> Dude, you forgot to mention Benghazi and Pizzagate. I have a feeling you were screaming those things from the mountaintops for years.


Wrong again. As I asked before, please tell us where you get your verified news. If you can't then it's obvious that you're just making things up.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592382030385676289


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

^ Wow!


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

FTX donated to both parties.

McConnell and McCarthy got over 2 million each.

SBF sprinkled money to everyone but Sags apparently.

Likely because I have always called crypto crap, which is far nicer than Charlie Munger called it today.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> FTX donated to both parties.
> 
> McConnell and McCarthy got over 2 million each.
> 
> ...


Ah, so if you give a little bit to the other party then it's okay to launder money to try to sway an election in favour of the Democrats?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> FTX donated to both parties.


Ok sags. Your level of critical thought is very low here - as usual. Doesn't take much thought to see a strategy here, but you did very little, if any, critical thinking. Why am I not surprised.

Mother - Founder of a political fundraising and strategy Mind the Gap (received donations from FTX)
Father - Tax law specialist with an interest in lobbying, endorsed Elizabeth Warren
Aunt - WEF member (FTX was a WEF partner until recently)
Brother - Founder of guarding against pandemics which received government funding from Biden administration

This video attempts to string together information about all the government lobbying surrounding SBF - not saying it's the best source but it's easier to link/watch if you haven't been following

It was also running the Ukraine donation website - effectively receiving control of funds from Biden administration


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Ah, so if you give a little bit to the other party then it's okay to launder money to try to sway an election in favour of the Democrats?


Yea that was hard to figure out wasn't it

This rabbit hole goes very deep and people like sags are getting hung up on the very basics


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> Yea that was hard to figure out wasn't it
> 
> This rabbit hole goes very deep and people like sags are getting hung up on the very basics


Easy solution, jail McConnell and McCarthy along with the others.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Just proves my point that crypto is crap and only useful to criminals.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Just proves my point that crypto is crap and only useful to criminals.


Crypto world didn't like SBF

All his VC stuff was not even decentralized. He bought all the crypto media and ignored good projects. Basically all the old tricks probably from his parents

He's a plant to fool saggy simpletons who have no clue what they're talking about


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto World considered SBF as their messiah. They all kissed his ring and begged to snuggle up beside him.

_Fear not_, squealed SBF as he flitted and pranced around the crypto world,_ I will come save you_.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Crypto World considered SBF as their messiah. They all kissed his ring and begged to snuggle up beside him.
> 
> _Fear not_, squealed SBF as he flitted and pranced around the crypto world,_ I will come save you_.


Ok saggy brains

You forgot your meds again


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> FTX donated to both parties.
> 
> McConnell and McCarthy got over 2 million each.


Wow!


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

james4beach said:


> Wow!


If you think that's exciting, guess how much the Democrats got?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

How much ?

It looks like he pledged a lot but then reneged on the pledges.

He gave money to both parties and pet projects.






Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The money was stolen funds.

The trustee should go after all of it to be returned for distribution to creditors.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The trustee in the Bernie Madoff bankruptcy went after people who benefited from the scheme and got 50% of it returned to creditors.

This notion that some say they will donate the remainder to charity isn’t good enough for FTX creditors.

It is not their money to give away.

Return 100% of the donation.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Times tough Kevin ?

Can’t afford a decent home office ?

Mr. Mickey Mouse ?






This is a bottoming process. An event like this will accelerate crypto... | TikTok


42.6K Likes, 2.2K Comments. TikTok video from Mr. Wonderful (@kevinolearytv): "This is a bottoming process. An event like this will accelerate crypto regulation. #crypto #bitcoin #kevinoleary #ftx #sbf #investing". original sound - Mr. Wonderful.




vm.tiktok.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It looks like the trustee already got the bottom half of Kevin’s suit and his shoes.

He got to keep the high tech studio though.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Times tough Kevin ?
> 
> Can’t afford a decent home office ?


He's also on Cameo. You can pay him to record a video for you, e.g. for a nephew's bar mitzvah


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> The money was stolen funds.
> 
> The trustee should go after all of it to be returned for distribution to creditors.


The Democrats never return stolen money.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> The trustee in the Bernie Madoff bankruptcy went after people who benefited from the scheme and got 50% of it returned to creditors.
> 
> This notion that some say they will donate the remainder to charity isn’t good enough for FTX creditors.
> 
> ...


It wasn't the Democrats money in the first place. But no one expects them to be investigated. They are above the law.

This story will fade away in no time just like every other Democrat scandal.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> If you think that's exciting, guess how much the Democrats got?


Looks like there was a few ways money was being laundered/recycled through government donations/grants back to FTX

Nothing will happen. This is evident by how the media is covering it vs a Bernie Madoff. Just like how Ghislaine Maxwell or Hunter Biden was down played and ignored

SBFs family knew how to play that game from being close to the democrats


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I can't handle 8 minutes of Fox but seems they are covering the money laundering allegations


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Times tough Kevin ?
> 
> Can’t afford a decent home office ?
> 
> ...


 ...   ... OMG, pink plastic floppers? Golly, al cheapo. Plus, did he borrow those bottom pj from his wife or his niece? 

Talk about looks as being deceiving, only it's a moment of truth here. Very well done Kevin on being transparent here!


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

The media keep trying to coverup the most blatant money laundering operation in US history. Democracy dies in darkness?? 😁 🤪

"Sam Bankman-Fried, then a 28-year-old cryptocurrency entrepreneur, and his brother Gabe, a 25-year-old congressional staffer, said the pandemic provided them with something else: an opportunity to make a difference.

Harnessing the enormous wealth created by FTX, the cryptocurrency exchange that Sam Bankman-Fried had founded, they undertook a project to spend potentially billions of dollars on pandemic prevention, a long-neglected priority on Capitol Hill even amid the coronavirus crisis. The plan, drawn from the brothers’ adherence to a philosophy called effective altruism, sought to maximize philanthropic giving in ways that can have the most impact." 

FTX collapse dooms founder’s effort to prevent another pandemic - The Washington Post


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> The media keep trying to coverup the most blatant money laundering operation in US history. Democracy dies in darkness?? 😁 🤪
> 
> "Sam Bankman-Fried, then a 28-year-old cryptocurrency entrepreneur, and his brother Gabe, a 25-year-old congressional staffer, said the pandemic provided them with something else: an opportunity to make a difference.
> 
> ...


So SBF donates millions to the democrats and then they give millions to his brother to prevent pandemics 

Look at the Reuters title today. It's clear he lobbied the right people









Breakingviews - Sam Bankman-Fried did financial system a favour


Sam Bankman-Fried has tipped the cryptocurrency industry into crisis. But the spectacular implosion of FTX, the exchange he founded, has done the broader financial system a big favour. The curly-haired kingpin was at the forefront of pushing regulators and politicians to legitimise digital...




www.reuters.com


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592595172709527552


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

He gave money to the Republicans too.

It isn't unusual for wealthy people and lobby groups to pay off both sides, so they always have someone with power.

US politics isn't the shining light of democracy anymore. It is the light for the outhouse.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> He gave money to the Republicans too.
> 
> It isn't unusual for wealthy people and lobby groups to pay off both sides, so they always have someone with power.
> 
> US politics isn't the shining light of democracy anymore. It is the light for the outhouse.


Yeah, we know. But you choose to obsess over the token 2% of donations and ignore the 98% of donations and the money laundering.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It will all be documented. Some of it has already been revealed online.

So far it looks pretty evenly distributed among politicians from both sides and their PAC organizations. 

The Republicans led the fight against any regulation on crypto and railed against Senator Warren and others who demanded it.

That history is also well documented and captured on YouTube.

Everything will come out. There are too many eyes on it now to hide it.

Both leaders of the GOP received millions from FTX.

Corruption all around. There are no good guys in this story.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> It will all be documented. Some of it has already been revealed online.
> 
> So far it looks pretty evenly distributed among politicians from both sides and their PAC organizations.
> 
> ...


You're really bad at math and percentages

Like worse than I thought possible


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> You're really bad at math and percentages
> 
> Like worse than I thought possible


sags isn't bad at math, sags is just lying again.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Money laundering starter pack:


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> sags isn't bad at math, sags is just lying again.


I'm not sure anymore

Not understanding inflation is understandable. It is hard for people to understand a rate of change is different from a percentage of change. But not understanding the difference between basic quantities is a whole different level

He might suffer from the same condition that Trudeau has with numbers


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren is one of the harshest critics of crypto and has lobbied for stiff regulation, while the Republicans opposed her.

The two most powerful Republicans received millions in direct donations from SBF. Many of the Republicans who lost the mid-terms were sponsored by SBF.

McConnell and McCarthy each got over $2 million and their PACs and other Republican PACs got many millions more.

It is no shock that celebrity pumpers of FTX were Republicans......Kevin O'Leary, Tom Brady, Anthony Scaramucci, etc.

Heck.....it even crept into Canadian conservative politics with crypto dude Pierre P extolling the virtues of crypto as a hedge against inflation.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> McConnell and McCarthy each got over $2 million and their PACs and other Republican PACs got many millions more.


More than 10x more was donated to Democrats. GM didn't require highschool education for the assembly line?



sags said:


> Pierre is looking pretty sheepish as Liberals remind Canadians every day they would have lost their money if they listened to Pierre.


They lost purchasing power, equity or money one way or another. It's the same reason your son can never afford to buy a house.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> More than 10x more was donated to Democrats. GM didn't require highschool education for the assembly line?


$38 million went to the Democrats. $2 million went to the Republicans. That's 95% or 20 to 1.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

If sags was a cop they would give a Republican a ticket for jaywalking while ignoring a Democrat committing murder right beside them.

And would sleep comfortably that night with a clear conscious because they thwarted evil.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Sags figures if he posts the same nonsense enough times it will make it true.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

If oxymoronic HappilyRetired trolls enough times on this forum, his followers will jump off the cliff at his command with real pleasure to go with it too.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> If oxymoronic HappilyRetired trolls enough times on this forum, his followers will jump off the cliff at his command with real pleasure to go with it too.


None of them have a shred of evidence to post.....as per usual. My ma called them types....."gum flappers".

First they claimed Biden got $600 milllion himself like that wouldn't be noticed, cause more than half a billion $ donations come in all the time.

Oh wait....it is all in FTT tokens on Hunter Biden's laptop, or on Hillary Clinton's home server, or Nancy Pelosi has them stashed in her purse.

These poodles are always chasing rainbows.....woof, woof.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Government handouts and bailouts are scams


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593254873105301504


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto pumpers are scammers.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Crypto pumpers are scammers.


GM and Bombardier bailouts are taxpayer scams

All the jobs went to Korea and Mexico


----------



## AlwaysMissingTheBoat (8 mo ago)

AlwaysMissingTheBoat said:


> *I don't think Russian collusion is a done deal yet.* The others? I never went around on discussion forums popping off about them like some Chicken Little.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593369072544059392


https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/11/17/benton-trump-russian-vasilenko-guilty/


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

The fix is in. Guess who is chairing the investigation into FTX?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Doubtful with the Republicans in charge of the House. 

All the Democratically led investigations will come to a halt and the Republicans will open up a slew of their own.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> The fix is in. Guess who is chairing the investigation into FTX?


The Epstein investigators?


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> The Epstein investigators?


She was in the pic, Maxine Waters.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> All the Democratically led investigations will come to a halt and the Republicans will open up a slew of their own.


Good. Treat them the same way they were treated.

The Republicans should also go hard on ballot harvesting, too.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I agree. 

They should spend all their time holding hearings to keep them busy.

House committees are toothless tigers anyways. Trump was impeached twice… no big deal.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> The Epstein investigators?





HappilyRetired said:


> She was in the pic, Maxine Waters.


I know, I was joking.
I actually don't think there is much to gain in Epsteining him, the paper trail of who he gave the money to is already out there.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> I agree.
> 
> They should spend all their time holding hearings to keep them busy.
> 
> House committees are toothless tigers anyways. Trump was impeached twice… no big deal.


Trump was impeached for things that he didn't do that Biden actually did and not a single Democrat felt any shame for their show trials.

They're just a bunch of wannabe dictators and nazis.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

‘A paid hack’: Nouriel Roubini just tore into Kevin O'Leary for his ties to bankrupt FTX



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paid-hack-nouriel-roubini-just-162000222.html


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Does anyone want to bet that the Democrats have zero intention of returning their fraudulently obtained FTX money?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> ‘A paid hack’: Nouriel Roubini just tore into Kevin O'Leary for his ties to bankrupt FTX
> 
> 
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paid-hack-nouriel-roubini-just-162000222.html


 ... I wonder how much "real money" Kevin has "invested" in FTX. Would be a laugh if it's more than 50% of his net worth with this money "guru".


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Maxime Waters refused to answer the question if Democrats will return the stolen FTX money that they received.

I wonder how she will run the "hearing", lol.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Maxime Waters refused to answer the question if Democrats will return the stolen FTX money that they received.
> 
> I wonder how she will run the "hearing", lol.


SBF highlights the peak stupidity of both centralized banks without 1:1 reserves and government lobbying

Just that banks and lobbyists so far have not gone to the same extreme - but use the exact same methods


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Ukraine laundered money though FTX which went to the Democrat party. That's foreign interference in an election.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Banks have assets and collateral holdings. Banks have regulation and access to the central bank.

Crypto has worthless tokens and no collateral holdings. Crypto has no regulation and no access to the central bank.

Try borrowing money from a bank using crypto tokens as collateral.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Ukraine laundered money though FTX which went to the Democrat party. That's foreign interference in an election.


No it didn't.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> No it didn't.


Yes, it did.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Not possible.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> Not possible.


This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a known fact. Ukraine money went to FTX that went to the Democrat party. That is money laundering and foreign interference in an election.

You can pretend that it never happened but that doesn't change the facts. Now the Democrats are waffling on whether or not they'll return the illegal money they received. Democrat Maxine Waters who directly benefited is in charge of the investigation so the outcome is predetermined.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Boomer media is biased to hell


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594011763195904002


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> No it didn't.


The possibility of democrats being corrupt is impossible for you which demonstrates complete lack of any critical thought. 

These saggy old men grew up with nothing but mainstream media propaganda and are easily influenced because of lack of education


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Figments of your imagination aren't real. Neither is your crypto.

You should watch Warren Buffet videos for the next year to be rehabilitated from the crypto cult programming.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a known fact. Ukraine money went to FTX that went to the Democrat party. That is money laundering and foreign interference in an election.
> 
> You can pretend that it never happened but that doesn't change the facts. Now the Democrats are waffling on whether or not they'll return the illegal money they received. Democrat Maxine Waters who directly benefited is in charge of the investigation so the outcome is predetermined.


FUD.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> The possibility of democrats being corrupt is impossible for you which demonstrates complete lack of any critical thought.
> 
> These saggy old men grew up with nothing but mainstream media propaganda and are easily influenced because of lack of education


I have house plants smarter than you.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> I have house plants smarter than you.


Uh huh

Did they tell you inflation is good for GICs? And that you can get a PhD from mainstream media?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

US is investigating the FTX donations to Democrats


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> US is investigating the FTX donations to Democrats


Is that the investigation run by Maxime Waters? 🤪 

10 to 1 odds that not a single Democrat is found guilty and not a single Democrat will return the stolen money they received.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

This is a long read - not saying it's all valid but there's a lot to unpack









A Grand Unified Theory of the FTX Disaster


The Wars of Wars: Where the Wars Intersect




roundingtheearth.substack.com


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> SBF highlights the peak stupidity of both centralized banks without 1:1 reserves and government lobbying
> 
> Just that banks and lobbyists so far have not gone to the same extreme - but use the exact same methods


If you have 1:1 reserves, then you can't lend the money back out.
In which case, what does the bank actually do?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> If you have 1:1 reserves, then you can't lend the money back out.
> In which case, what does the bank actually do?


Ask the central banks to print more monopoly money. FTX operated as its own central bank with FTT

They owned 0 BTC. They pumped VC centralized chains and ignored decentralized ones such as Cardano


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Boomer 🤡 world


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595432125922217984

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595552639273472001

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593135939596869632


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Are the Democrats giving back the stolen money? Will there be an investigation for foreign interference in an election?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

What money ?

If you mean political donations to candidates, both parties received them and some Democrats and Republicans have donated the funds to charity already due to the events.

They should give the money back to the bankruptcy trustee instead.

It isn’t their money to donate to charity. It is investor and customer money that was stolen.

SBF is going to prison for the rest of his life as a deterrent to others.

The crypto scam is unravelling and they are all looking to shift the blame away.

All trust has evaporated. 

Crypto is dead.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Even if all the conspiracy theories are true, all it does is confirm that crypto is a playground for criminals and has no future.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> Are the Democrats giving back the stolen money? Will there be an investigation for foreign interference in an election?


Of course not, they stole that money fair and square!


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> If you mean political donations to candidates, both parties received them and some Democrats and Republicans have donated the funds to charity already due to the events.


You keep acting like 98% of the donations to one party makes them equally complicit. The 2% was given to the Republicans just so that they can say they both benefited, and to fool people like you.

Where is your source that it was paid back?


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> SBF is going to prison for the rest of his life as a deterrent to others.


First they have to arrest and charge him. It doesn't look like they're in much of a hurry to do that.


----------



## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

HappilyRetired said:


> You keep acting like 98% of the donations to one party makes them equally complicit. The 2% was given to the Republicans just so that they can say they both benefited, and to fool people like you.











FTX Poured Millions Into Political Campaigns Before Bankruptcy


Former FTX executives contributed significantly to this year's midterm elections in an effort to gain influence in Washington. ...




www.theepochtimes.com







> FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried and two other executives poured more than $70 million into the political parties and groups, making FTX the third largest donor in the 2022 election cycle.
> 
> While Bankman-Fried gave nearly $40 million mainly to Democratic candidates and liberal organizations, his co-CEO Ryan Salame donated about $23 million to Republicans and conservative groups in 2022


It's more on the order of 65% dem and 35% rep support.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

_While SBF donated mostly to Democrats, *a top executive at FTX Digital Markets, Ryan Salame, spent about $20 million to support Republicans *during the same cycle, according to OpenSecrets. Some of those politicians are also returning funds.

A representative for *Rep. Kevin Hern (R-Okla.) *told the Block that a $5,000 contribution from Salame to the Hern Victory Fund, a joint fundraising committee with ties to his campaign, has since been given to an Oklahoma charity called Food on the Move._









Politicians spurn contributions from bankrupt crypto exchange FTX and its former CEO Sam Bankman-Fried


Bankman-Fried donated $40 million to support Democrats during the most recent election cycle.




fortune.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The fallout from FTX.......and the previous collapses of Voyager, Celsius, and other platforms.......with more to come in the future, has institutional investors in crypto scrambling to get out even if they have to declare big losses.

None of these institutions want to end up like the Ontario and Quebec pension funds having to explain to members or investors why they were investing in a sketchy crypto fad. People in these institutions are going to lose their jobs over it.

Exchanges have halted redemptions of the institutions......or many would already be out and the exchanges would be bankrupt.

M3s doesn't seem to fully appreciate what has happened. Crypto has blown up and isn't coming back.

Next up......bitcoins and with it Ether and all the other scams. Sometime in 2023, Bitcoin will go into the final free fall.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

gardner said:


> FTX Poured Millions Into Political Campaigns Before Bankruptcy
> 
> 
> Former FTX executives contributed significantly to this year's midterm elections in an effort to gain influence in Washington. ...
> ...


That's based on opensecrets.org data, funded almost entirely by leftist groups. Do you have an unbaised source?

Open Secrets is a non-profit that is funded through donations. Some notable donors include the Sunlight Foundation, the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, Open Society Foundations, the Joyce Foundation, and the Ford Foundation.

Center for Responsive Politics (Open Secrets) - Media Bias/Fact Check (mediabiasfactcheck.com)


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> M3s doesn't seem to fully appreciate what has happened. Crypto has blown up and isn't coming back.
> 
> Next up......bitcoins and with it Ether and all the other scams. Sometime in 2023, Bitcoin will go into the final free fall.


These are all centralized exchanges but that has been explained to you many times

You don't seem to understand that the dot com bubble did not mean the "internet isn't coming back" The only reason GM ever came back though is through billions in taxpayer bailout. Hopefully the government doesn't bailout these failed centralized exchanges as well because that would be promoting failures

Stay in school kids as there are no more 6 figure union warehouse jobs for highschool dropouts


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

You can pay $2400 to hear from criminal such as Janet Yellen and Sam Bankman-Fried


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595517660561043456


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Doubtful SBF is going to show up.

Quite a list of speakers though. A ticket for $2400 looks pretty cheap.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> Doubtful SBF is going to show up.
> 
> Quite a list of speakers though. A ticket for $2400 looks pretty cheap.


I wouldn't pay 24 cents to hear any of those people speak. At least half of them should be in jail.


----------



## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Keep the thread on-topic.

Off topic posts about conspiracy theories and fringe politics will be moved to Hot Button threads.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I find this scandal both interesting and illuminating. Morgan Stanley has put together a list of companies impacted by the FTX bankruptcy. I want to know what companies invested so I can avoid ever trusting them with my very hard earned money.

I can't find the report unblocked by a pay-wall but here is a partial list on Investopedia.



https://www.investopedia.com/companies-exposed-to-ftx-6830069



I have excruciated to keep my portfolio simple and understandable. As soon as you delve into the area of a black box, sure as guns some joker is using it to siphon money into some fantasy world. Fortunately for these charlatains, there are an infinite number of young gamblers willing to put their money into just about any scheme that promises comical levels of return.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Does anyone else find it ironic that FTX and Alameda took the identical trajectory of every retail crypto investor ever? They claim to be making buckets of cash, they run out of cash, and a little investigation reveals they have never made a cent. I can cite many dozens of people who took this trajectory with a single exception.

This is why I believe every financial institution should be audited. There is so much ego and broken thought process out there. We need our financial institutions to be resilient to single individual corruption.



moderator2 said:


> Off topic posts about conspiracy theories and fringe politics will be moved to Hot Button threads.


Crypto is literally the Rosetta stone of conspiracies. Everyone in crypto is making trucks full of money per minute. Deep fake Elon Musk videos tell of huge crypto giveaways. "Buy crypto... everyone is doing it!" Crypto is more sleazy than time share condominium sales. It is literally a bunch of compulsive gamblers pretending to be investors.


OK... my single exception.

A friend claims to be huge rich from crypto. He doesn't talk about it all that much so it's all good to me.

We have gone for coffee frequently and he is starting to talk about returning to work. Apparently, he is bored. Curiously, when he was working he absolutely hated everything about it and told me many times he couldn't wait to set the building on fire as he walked out.

He talks about waiting for the stock market to lose half it's value so he can get in. He is the biggest market timer I know.

Suffice to say, I don't have high confidence in the financial security of his future. He is a super nice guy so I hope his extremely rare boasting isn't a bunch of garbage, as all other crypto boasting has turned out to be.

Anyway, BitCoin is still up around $16K. That's a lot of virtual wealth. Old guys like me need to accept the idea that crypto may succeed as an alternate currency on the long term. On the other hand, all currency experiences a run at some point and crypto does not have a government to prop it up so it has a single strike at bat. Time will reveal all.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I thought this thread was about O'Leary and his promotion of FTX. Does FTX not have its own thread? If not, create one. 

Otherwise, it belongs to "Cryptocurrency may be a scam". Thanks to sags. However, I would suggest that title be changed to "Crypto-currency is NOTHING BUT A SCAM,including its platform FTX". That's more accurate and up to date of course.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

My perspective on this is narrow. I see crypto as a novelty and it seems to attract all the worst people and behaviours like moths to electric light.

Look at the list of companies impacted by the ftx failure. If you believe Morgan Stanley, there are several precarious crypto companies about to go down and a ton of companies that have significant impact.

It all revolves around the philosophy of BitCoin. Some people see it as a legitimate asset class. Others do not.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> My perspective on this is narrow. I see crypto as a novelty and it seems to attract all the worst people and behaviours like moths to electric light.


No different than Wall Street and the dot com bubble

Underneath there's passionate people building very impressive technology. The speculators just get way ahead of the tech. I was able to buy during the last crash and sell far more than I put in last year. The nodes I run are profitable and the companies I follow that do are profitable as well.

Anyone who got in during the "dot com bubble" is not. If you never used the internet yourself or had any first hand knowledge of it of course the entire dot com bubble would look like a scam through the lens of a sensationalized media. It doesn't mean the internet didn't have potential for people who actually understood it

I said many times during the last run that it was like a dot com bubble. The worst projects were backed by all the VCs and spent lots of money both hyping their own (centralized) projects while paying influencers and controlled the media to constantly discredit the real projects

A young contractor the other day told me he bought LUNA and SOL. Those were the 2 biggest scam chains. Retail who has no real understand just got manipulated by the VCs.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

TomB16 said:


> OK... my single exception.
> 
> A friend claims to be huge rich from crypto. He doesn't talk about it all that much so it's all good to me.
> 
> ...


A few years ago an acquaintance kept telling me to buy some Bitcoin. It was selling for around $1500, he had bought a bunch but I don't know exactly how much. I didn't buy any. This past summer I spoke to a mutual friend and found out that he sold most of it when it was at $48k.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

If the justification for scams is that somebody actually made money from it.......it doesn't mean much. That happens in every ponzi scheme and fraud.

Crypto pumpers like m3s want to keep the scams running because they profit from the greater fools.

When one scam dries up they just start another one.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF was supposed to be the saviour of crypto. He was going to bail out all the defunct crypto companies........then he went down.

Now there is Binance, the exchange that put FTX out of business. The CEO of Binance is a guy known as CZ. He lives in Dubai and can't leave because he is wanted by authorities all over the world. He says he will be the next saviour of crypto and pledges billions in support.

Closer examination reveals that the "billions" consist of a token he made up and assigned a value to, exactly like the FTT token that FTX claimed had value.

Binance has refused to be fully audited. Tether has refused to be fully audited. What are they afraid of ?

Well as soon as their books are opened, they reveal they are full of nothing but worthless tokens.

Regular folks need to understand. Tokens have no inherent value. They represent nothing of value. They are just made up tokens.

Tokens have no comparison to the US dollar. The US dollar is backed by the full faith and assets of the US of America.

The US military and legal systems back up the US dollar. Counterfeiting US dollars is a serious crime for a reason.

Crypto tokens are backed up by nothing.........nada........zip.

These cryptos don't really want your tokens. They already have worthless tokens. 

They want your US dollars they can steal while you fiddle with their tokens..


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

GM stock is the same price it was last decade

But that doesn't account for inflation. Mind you sags considers inflation good for GICs so he probably thinks GM stock is doing great

Oh and it already went bankrupt. What a scam on the taxpayer


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> SBF was supposed to be the saviour of crypto. He was going to bail out all the defunct crypto companies........then he went down.
> 
> Now there is Binance, the exchange that put FTX out of business. The CEO of Binance is a guy known as CZ. He lives in Dubai and can't leave because he is wanted by authorities all over the world. He says he will be the next saviour of crypto and pledges billions in support.
> 
> ...


 ... that's why you need to update that thread you created with title called "Crypto-currency could be a scam" to "Crypto-currencies (any form) IS A SCAM".

Other than the mods, only creators of the thread can modify/update their thread's title. If I had created it, I would have updated it. Put a date on there if needs to.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... that's why you need to update that thread you created with title called "Crypto-currency could be a scam" to "Crypto-currencies (any form) IS A SCAM".
> 
> Other than the mods, only creators of the thread can modify/update their thread's title. If I had created it, I would have updated it. Put a date on there if needs to.


Yes my grandparents thought the internet was a scam. They never used it and never will

Now boomers spend all day on the internet complaining about things they've never used because new things are complicated and scary. They should stick to watching CNBC

And they'll all be dead long before what they claim is dead reaches potential. Tragic


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I don't have to repeat it for the umpteenth time when even AltaRed said "give it up m3s with the boomer bitterness". It's time for you to let your parents give you some love.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Patrick Boyle has been making these incredible videos about FTX. Really worth watching.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

FTX is just another example of all the experts being wrong. How did he fool everyone so easily unless they were willing to be fooled? Didn't anyone do any background on him?

For years we were told that Epstein was a very successful hedge fund manager. But there was no evidence at all to back that up. Who created that myth and why did it fool so many people, many of them experts, for so long?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Bahamas just live streamed their address. Mostly congratulating themselves for quickly freezing FTX assets






There are some YouTube influencers trying to get access to SBF. According to security nobody has tried to arrest him. He will be speaking with Janet Yellen and Mike Pence as planned


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> FTX is just another example of all the experts being wrong. How did he fool everyone so easily unless they were willing to be fooled? Didn't anyone do any background on him?
> 
> For years we were told that Epstein was a very successful hedge fund manager. But there was no evidence at all to back that up. Who created that myth and why did it fool so many people, many of them experts, for so long?


He kind of came out of nowhere and paid all the influencers to spread a crafted narrative.

People were skeptical and didn't want another JP Morgan to recreate the old system, but kind of let it go with all the famous athletes, donations and sponsorships. Insiders are now saying he never made his fortune from trading like the narrative went.

There's definitely smart people behind him. Lawyers, governments, intelligence agencies?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Are venture capitalists stupid people with too much money or do they just attract a lot of stupid people with lots of money ?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Are venture capitalists stupid people with too much money or do they just attract a lot of stupid people with lots of money ?


Well what we're seeing here is VC people being careless. A well run VC firm won't lose all their money because of FTX. It's just one investment among many. So from the VC perspective we're seeing carelessness, but it's not a disaster -- for them.

I interacted with some VC people over the years, when I was working in high tech in Silicon Valley. Basically I think all of this is an indicator of a massive bubble in the US economy and equity markets. When bubbles get out of hand, stupid behaviours emerge. There was so much easy money (and quick riches) in American tech that everyone become stupid.

I personally know a couple people who engaged in start-ups and who made millions. One of them was a totally useless lawyer. The ONLY thing he did well is talk. His entire enterprise was talk and empty promises... talk talk talk about a product that didn't yet exist. They had no sales, no customers, and no revenue.

That guy produced nothing, his team produced nothing, and yet -- just by yapping his mouth -- he made millions of $. The only reason this works is that stupid investors with too much money were willing to buy anything. This goes far beyond crypto, it's about tech in general.

In the last few years, bullsh*tters who talked a lot could talk themselves into millions of dollars of easy money. I think it's a massive bubble in tech. Way too much money and quick riches makes people complacent and reckless.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> He kind of came out of nowhere and paid all the influencers to spread a crafted narrative.
> 
> People were skeptical and didn't want another JP Morgan to recreate the old system, but kind of let it go with all the famous athletes, donations and sponsorships. Insiders are now saying he never made his fortune from trading like the narrative went.
> 
> There's definitely smart people behind him. Lawyers, governments, intelligence agencies?


Taking him down means giving back all the stolen money, they can't afford to return the billions he gave to them, so they're going to pretend it wasn't stolen.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some people believe in the technology, others are convinced there is a world conspiracy of bankers and politicians, but most just have FOMO. 

They buy the sizzle......not the steak.

Lots of money, yachts, mansions, luxury vehicles, and all you gotta do is convince people to buy millions of your Jb4 tokens and then shut down and head out to where the other scammers go to live.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Some people drop out of school and just complain about everything they never tried to do.

Don't be a saggy Wayne Gretzky in life complaining from the stands that your parents gave your hockey cards away. Don't wait for someone to give you a job at a party and complain that society doesn't give enough socialist handouts.

Get over it and get out on the ice. As Wayne says you miss 100% of the shots you don't take


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto dudes today be weeping.

Even the mighty bitcoin be falling.

And they shall shout to the mountains to fall down upon them.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Crypto dudes today be weeping.
> 
> Even the mighty bitcoin be falling.
> 
> And they shall shout to the mountains to fall down upon them.


I've been able to make steady gains this year. Just not at the insane scale as the last few years

People who only criticize from from the sidelines never learn this lesson. If you zoom out 16k BTC is not down at all

If you didn't finish highschool math and only watch CNBC it's easy to get confused


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Are venture capitalists stupid people with too much money or do they just attract a lot of stupid people with lots of money ?


 ... the latter 'cause it's OPM that they (the vcrs) can afford to lose.

You can give MrMatt credit that vcs are "marketers", talking their way into sucking OPMs in.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> If you zoom out 16k BTC is not down at all


Correct me if I am wrong, but Bitcoin hit over $19k in December 2017. 

Now 5 years later, it is down to $16k. That is a loss of 16%.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but Bitcoin hit over $19k in December 2017.
> 
> Now 5 years later, it is down to $16k. That is a loss of 16%.


Sure if you cherry pick a price that only existed for a few minutes with very thin volume

You could also cherry pick that it was under $3k in 2020. More common would be to look at other metrics like moving average

I would guess you don't trade stocks if you cherry pick highs and lows


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> Sure if you cherry pick a price that only existed for a few minutes with very thin volume
> 
> You could also cherry pick that it was under $3k in 2020. More common would be to look at other metrics like moving average
> 
> I would guess you don't trade stocks if you cherry pick highs and lows


Hey, it's just an observation. Illustrates that not everyone is ahead on it.










Not sure what your definition of trading stocks is, but maybe I hold more $ in stocks than you do.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Given the bubble was driven by buyers chasing the ever higher prices, most bitcoin holders are underwater and it is pouring rain.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Given the bubble was driven by buyers chasing the ever higher prices, most bitcoin holders are underwater and it is pouring rain.


I don't think you understand how volume works. In fact I know you don't based on previous comments

Long term holder supply is at all time high based on data. The last to buy are the first to sell (remember when you bought at $70k and sold the next day) All time high supply withdrawn from centralized exchanges as well thanks to FTX (who held 0 BTC to dump)

We probably see a wave of BTC miner capitulation though. Everyone who knows what they're talking about has been calling that all year


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s, given you appear to follow the market closely, what are your predictions for 2023?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> m3s, given you appear to follow the market closely, what are your predictions for 2023?


Looks bad

Central banks have their knee on the markets with the rate increases. The market is forward looking and right now they see rate increases and inflation. They don't want to kill the market so they have to ease up at some point. When central banks blink things could change fast - I can't really predict what a few old folks will do behind closed doors. Central banks are very powerful

I actually prefer the bear market though. This was necessary to wipe out all the excess everything bubble. Strap in for a bumpy ride


----------



## Jericho (Dec 23, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... the latter 'cause it's OPM that they (the vcrs) can afford to lose.
> 
> You can give MrMatt credit that vcs are "marketers", talking their way into sucking OPMs in.


Welcome back. Saw 'banned' instead of 'registered' under your name. We were worried you had left us.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Imagine putting your arm around your future judge. Lobbying works I guess

"Why Isn't Sam Bankman-Fried In Handcuffs Yet?

For a party that seems to absolutely loathe billionaires, Democrats and their friends in the media sure are taking it soft on Bankman-Fried."


















Why Isn't Sam Bankman-Fried In Handcuffs Yet?


For a party that seems to absolutely loathe billionaires, Democrats and their friends in the media sure are taking it soft on Bankman-Fried.




quoththeraven.substack.com


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Jericho said:


> Welcome back. Saw 'banned' instead of 'registered' under your name. We were worried you had left us.


 ... just saw this so I'M BACK (and try to picture the Terminator saying that)! Who is the "we"? And why worry about me since I didn't worry about the cry-baby. So do you want your name added to my "new signature" list as a reminder? Lots of fun coming up with that ...


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF is in hiding in the Bahamas and they are more worried about their much deserved reputation as an offshore haven for criminals than turning him over to the US.

When the US has sufficient evidence to lay criminal charges and hold him in custody, the US will nab him and bring him to the US for trial.

see ……Conrad Black, Marc Emery, and El Chapo. 

SBF could be on the FBI’s 10 most wanted list some day.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Imagine putting your arm around your future judge. Lobbying works I guess


It's not lobbying, it's mutually assured destruction.

He funded the politicians so much that if they convict him, they'll have to return the stolen money, they can't afford to.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Based on what I've seen over the last couple weeks, Bernie Madoff's biggest mistake was not paying off the media and Democrats. The media has recently interviewed SBF but didn't ask him any tough questions.

Even more telling, he was confident enough to appear to these interviews knowing that he wouldn't face either tough questions or the threat of being arrested.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Based on what I've seen over the last couple weeks, Bernie Madoff's biggest mistake was not paying off the media and Democrats. The media has recently interviewed SBF but didn't ask him any tough questions.
> 
> Even more telling, he was confident enough to appear to these interviews knowing that he wouldn't face either tough questions or the threat of being arrested.


Crazy because his parents are lawyers connected to US government and universities

Speaking publicly when you're accused of a crime would normally be ill-advised by any lawyer. Clearly his parents must think he is sufficiently protected.

Laws are for thee but not for me? Corruption in broad daylight


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF did an exclusive interview with CNBC and it didn't go well for him. He is just one of many criminals involved in crypto.

Crypto is a criminal enterprise and nothing more. All the talk of decentralization, defi, web 3 is pure bullshit.

It shouldn't be regulated. It should be considered as counterfeiting with the same criminal penalties.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Crazy because his parents are lawyers connected to US government and universities
> 
> Speaking publicly when you're accused of a crime would normally be ill-advised by any lawyer. Clearly his parents must think he is sufficiently protected.
> 
> Laws are for thee but not for me? Corruption in broad daylight


That's the point, he's making sure he's out there so that if anything happens to him, people will ask questions.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF isn't the only one being investigated. Caroline Ellison is CEO of Alameda Research hedge fund and SBF's girlfriend.









Caroline Ellison reportedly sent a text amid the FTX collapse saying she was 'kinda worried that everyone is gonna quit/take time off'


Ellison's text is just one of the many internal exchanges reviewed by The New York Times that highlights the meltdown at the crypto exchange FTX.




www.businessinsider.com





Apparently, she is a fan of illicit drug use.









Caroline Ellison, one of the central figures behind FTX's collapse, previously tweeted that regularly using amphetamines made the 'non-medicated' life seem 'dumb'


Read the cryptic tweets about amphetamine use from Ellison, the CEO of Alameda Research and FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried's reported ex-girlfriend.




www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> SBF did an exclusive interview with CNBC and it didn't go well for him. He is just one of many criminals involved in crypto.
> 
> Crypto is a criminal enterprise and nothing more. All the talk of decentralization, defi, web 3 is pure bullshit.
> 
> It shouldn't be regulated. It should be considered as counterfeiting with the same criminal penalties.


 ... was the interview this article which is behind a paywall?

It's would be pretty amazing (which wouldn't be surprising) that SBF being so young as he is would just point blank say "_(I) didn't ever try to commit fraud_". Did he blink his eye(s) when he said that? He must have gotten training from his professional parents.

Former CEO of crypto exchange FTX says he ‘didn’t ever try to commit fraud’


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF's right arm was trembling throughout the entire CNBC interview.

He also avoided looking into the camera and was avoiding answering repeated direct questions. He appeared to be looking at a computer screen.

Cypto pumpers are trying to make SBF the fall guy for crypto, but that doesn't work when other crypto businesses have collapsed one after another.

The remaining ones are sketchy and will be investigated. Tether has promised for 5 years to produce a full audit and it still hasn't done so. The CEO of Binance is a guy living in Dubai because he is wanted for crimes in several countries. They also have not allowed a full audit.

When these crypto companies talk of "assets" and "collateral" they misuse normal business terms. When investors hear those words they think in terms of cash, real estate, bonds etc. The crypto pumpers mean "tokens", to which they give a "market price".

SBF personally decided the market value of his FTT token and when asked couldn't give a clear response on he came up with the "market price".

In short........these scammers just make it up. When they are audited they will face the same fate as FTX.

The SBF interviews were available on Youtube in the CNBC channel.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Congressional hearings are set to discuss the collapse of FTX and bring forward regulation.

They should just make it illegal counterfeiting and apply those criminal penalties, which are quite severe and easy to prove and get convictions.

Congressional politicians like to look smart to their voter base, and pretend they understand the latest technology. The reality is they have no clue.

In Washington DC........bullshit baffles brains.


----------



## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

sags said:


> Tether has promised for 5 years to produce a full audit and it still hasn't done so.


I thought Tether was done for when it started to lose its peg last month, but in the last day it has returned again to its peg and seems to be doing alright. But I still predict that the implosion that trims the crypto economy back to BTC alone for 5 years will be Tether.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

At one point in the interview, SBF claimed he had little knowledge about Alameda Research and didn't really know the executives very well.

Then the host said.......but you lived with your girlfriend who was CEO of Alameda Research and other executives of the company.

SBF replied........yea for awhile but then I moved out.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> SBF's right arm was trembling throughout the entire CNBC interview.
> 
> He also avoided looking into the camera and was avoiding answering repeated direct questions. He appeared to be looking at a computer screen.
> 
> ...


You're confusing a lot of very basic things here as usual and it's not worth explaining them all for the thousands time.

You clearly don't understand how a market works. Even the price/value of fiat is set by the market and often manipulated by central banks. Nobody can set a market price sags.. you can ask a market price for your house but the price is what the buyer agrees to pay and you agree to sell. Someone with a lot of houses or a lot of the asset can certainly manipulate but they can't set the price someone will accept

To be clear, nothing decentralized has a CEO by definition


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Crypto is a criminal enterprise and nothing more. All the talk of decentralization, defi, web 3 is pure bullshit.
> 
> It shouldn't be regulated. It should be considered as counterfeiting with the same criminal penalties.


That is to be determined by every country.

China has made it illegal because it is an authoritarian regime run by a crazy boomer. Meanwhile more and more countries are legitimizing it. You have no vote in what other countries decide is illegal. As the boomers fade away more and more democracies will legitimize crypto. Boomers can't live forever thank God

FTX is not decentralized, defi or web3. It basically operated like traditional finance on steroids


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> FTX is not decentralized, defi or web3. It basically operated like traditional finance on steroids


No, it was some guy who had people mail him envelopes of cash. It wasn't even "traditional finance", it was a basic scam.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

gardner said:


> I thought Tether was done for when it started to lose its peg last month, but in the last day it has returned again to its peg and seems to be doing alright. But I still predict that the implosion that trims the crypto economy back to BTC alone for 5 years will be Tether.


Huh?

What do you mean "the crypto economy", and trims it back to BTC?

Bitcoin is the least interesting blockchain, the interesting work is happening elsewhere.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> No, it was some guy who had people mail him envelopes of cash. It wasn't even "traditional finance", it was a basic scam.


JP Morgan and all the US regulated banks are fined for running similar front running and rehypothecation scams all the time. They are just better at keeping the game going and obviously manage risk much better

FTX acted like a fractional reserve central bank printing its own FTT money. This only works if people are willing to trade something of value for their FTT token. They can't set the price the price is set by what people are willing to pay


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Gator13 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but Bitcoin hit over $19k in December 2017.
> 
> Now 5 years later, it is down to $16k. That is a loss of 16%.


True but, as currencies go, that isn't too bad. CAD has swung more in less time.

As get rich quick schemes go, however, it is not ideal. 😬


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> You're confusing a lot of very basic things here as usual and it's not worth explaining them all for the thousands time.
> 
> You clearly don't understand how a market works. Even the price/value of fiat is set by the market and often manipulated by central banks. Nobody can set a market price sags.. you can ask a market price for your house but the price is what the buyer agrees to pay and you agree to sell. Someone with a lot of houses or a lot of the asset can certainly manipulate but they can't set the price someone will accept
> 
> *To be clear, nothing decentralized has a CEO by definition*


 ...then why did SBF made himself CEO of FTX (if not not the scam intent) aka with the spaced-out face saying "_(I) didn't ever try to commit fraud_". Right.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> That is to be determined by every country.
> 
> China has made it illegal because it is an authoritarian regime run by a crazy boomer. Meanwhile more and more countries are legitimizing it. You have no vote in what other countries decide is illegal. As the boomers fade away more and more democracies will legitimize crypto. Boomers can't live forever thank God


 ... I hope you didn't say that to your parents. Sounds like you want the boomers sterilized and that you were blown out from a rock from space who just happened to land in Canada.



> FTX is not decentralized, defi or web3. It basically operated like traditional finance on steroids


 ... of course not, so it can (ie. needed to) extend its digits in capturing suckers' money.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF created FTT coins, gave them an arbitrary value, and counted them as collateral assets.

They were not moving client money around to various trading platforms......oh no, that money was siphoned off and went into the pockets of the scammers.

They were moving FTT and other worthless tokens around. SBF couldn't even say how he arrived at the value of his FTT token.

For someone who professes to know so much about crypto m3s has a pretty dismal record of success and displays a fundamental lack of knowledge.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

BItcoin is no longer decentralized. It is entirely controlled by a handful of huge mining companies.

The exchanges are unregulated and heavily manipulated both on price and volume. 

It is all fictitious accounting and just made up to create the illusion of wealth.

The big bitcoin holders buy a tiny bit of bitcoin at a higher price and that sets the price for the stash of bitcoins they are flogging on the exchange.

If they dumped their stash of bitcoins at once.........the market would collapse because there simply isn't a market for them anymore.

It is classic pump and dump. The institutions are sellers now..........not buyers.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> BItcoin is no longer decentralized. It is entirely controlled by a handful of huge mining companies.
> 
> The exchanges are unregulated and heavily manipulated both on price and volume.
> 
> ...


You should complete high school math before thinking anyone should read what you write

You clearly don't understand how market price, liquidity, volume, or even basic high school math works. It's been explained before. Boomers think they can just say whatever without any substantiation because they grew up in a world where nothing was really verified and people thought mainstream media was truth.

Inflation was not good for GICs and CNBC does not give PhD in Economics


----------



## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

sags said:


> BItcoin is no longer decentralized. It is entirely controlled by a handful of huge mining companies.


That's false. Bitcoin is controlled by all full nodes (a full node is not necessarily a miner). If miners produce an invalid block, nodes will reject it.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

_The concentration of miners is even more profound, data show. NBER found that the top 10% of miners control 90% of the Bitcoin mining capacity, and just 0.1% (about 50 miners) control 50% of mining capacity. 

Such a high concentration could make the Bitcoin network vulnerable to a 51% attack, where a colluding set of miners or one miner is able to take control of a majority of the network. NBER found the concentration also decreases following sharp increases in the Bitcoin price, meaning the probability the network is vulnerable to a 51% attack is higher when Bitcoin’s price drops sharply. 

“Our results suggest that despite the significant attention that Bitcoin has received over the last few years, the Bitcoin ecosystem is still dominated by large and concentrated players, be it large miners, Bitcoin holders or exchanges,” the researchers wrote. “This inherent concentration makes Bitcoin susceptible to systemic risk and also implies that the majority of the gains from further adoption are likely to fall disproportionately to a small set of participants.”









Just 0.1% Bitcoin miners control half of all mining capacity, according to NBER study


The study also shows that one third of all Bitcoin is owned by its top 10,000 investors.




fortune.com




_


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> _The concentration of miners is even more profound, data show. NBER found that the top 10% of miners control 90% of the Bitcoin mining capacity, and just 0.1% (about 50 miners) control 50% of mining capacity.
> 
> Such a high concentration could make the Bitcoin network vulnerable to a 51% attack, where a colluding set of miners or one miner is able to take control of a majority of the network. NBER found the concentration also decreases following sharp increases in the Bitcoin price, meaning the probability the network is vulnerable to a 51% attack is higher when Bitcoin’s price drops sharply.
> 
> ...


You didn't cite your source

So I googled it and it's a copy/paste from 2021. This is like all the boomer Karens on Facebook who quote google searches as "proof"

You have to do a lot more than quoting old mainstream media fud


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The article was from last year and the mining farms have grown larger and have more control than when the article was written.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Mainstream media easily controls the feeble minded boomer who is used to believing FUD

Cardano is currently setup to incentivize the strongest 500 pools. When pools become too large they lose rewards which incentivizes delegates to move to smaller pools. But pools that are too small are also not rewarded because they don't have enough delegation. Too many pools just dilutes rewards too much and slows the network down

It's all based on game theory and math. A few people at Apple have enough power to ban all boomers from their stores. But why would they do that when boomers are giving them money. Same goes for BTC miners. They are incentivized to validate the network and keep it strong. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot?

This is the problem with googling what you want to believe without thinking for yourself.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe MIT is wrong too ?

*4. Miners are hugely concentrated.*
_
*Up until China's crackdown earlier this year, miners — individuals who process and verify Bitcoin transactions and add them to the blockchain ledger — were hugely concentrated, with around 60% –70% located in China.*

For their work, miners are rewarded with newly created Bitcoins. The authors were able to identify individual miners by tracking the distribution of mining rewards from the largest 16 mining pools to the miners that work for them.

Having miners concentrated in one specific country can easily create volatility.

“If a certain country decides it doesn't want to allow mining anymore, it can lead to a lot of upheaval in the Bitcoin ecosystem,” Schoar said — as has happened with China's decision. "Without proper regulation, this is going to be a very dangerous place for many retail investors.”

The authors also found that the concentration of miners actually goes up when the Bitcoin price drops “because it looks like some miners drop out of the game altogether because maybe it's not worth their while or they're not interested anymore, and then the capacity becomes even more concentrated,” Schoar said.ay_


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Maybe MIT is wrong too ?
> 
> *4. Miners are hugely concentrated.*
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong there but it doesn't say anything that is an issue. This is common when "journalists" quote scientific studies but spin it for a boomer audience

China did ban BTC mining and they all "moved" to other pools or found VPNs. It did cause a huge disruption in the hash rates but the network healed itself exactly as intended, even faster than expected. As hash rate declines the rewards go up. US quickly picked up the slack in Texas because of economic incentive

Concentration of miners is just pools. Pooling helps smooth out rewards but you can switch pools whenever. Same way stake pools work. If a pool is malicious you just switch pools. Bottom line is to attack BTC you'd have to either spend +$100B and increasing or convince a pool of that much to support your malicious attack.

So a journalist can quote MIT and make it sound juicy for boomers to quote online but it doesn't mean you understand what MIT said


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Funny a couple of the "sharks" disagree on SBF.

Mark Cuban said SBF stole customer funds and it going to prison. Kevin O'Leary says he believes SBF and it was all just a big honest mistake.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Maxime Waters held the congressional hearing on GME

There are several pictures of her shoulder to shoulder with SBF's arm around her. She invited SBF to the congressional hearing today

Guess it shows if you lobby the government you can get away with anything


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598693811252875264


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

SBF has been lobbying and bribing all kinds of politicians... both Democrats and Republicans.

In a recording that came out, SBF said that he donates openly to Democrats but does dark-money donations to Republicans. Either way, he's bought out all the politicians and there's no political leaning.

That's the norm in corporate America. That's how every big industry operates: pay off all the politicians, to support the corporate agenda.

This is the problem when big corporations run a country.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

'Shark Tank' investor Kevin O'Leary says he will get his money back from FTX and that the exchange needs to be audited before Sam Bankman-Fried can be found guilty



> ...
> _O'Leary was a paid FTX spokesperson and an investor in the exchange, and had corporate accounts on the platform. FTX's fall has roiled crypto markets over the last month, and details of mismanagement and bad governance have steadily trickled out of bankruptcy proceedings.
> 
> *Revelations include the fact that FTX had no in-house accounting department, and reportedly co-mingled customer funds with funds of Alameda Research, Bankman-Fried's crypto trading arm.
> ...


 ... sounds like a desperado in complete denial and with the need to hallucinate in order to suppress the pains coming from all angles. 

Did Kevin go to school even? Where do you start auditing when there's no accounting department to start with (unbelieveable)? And so what if the crypto transactions are recorded in public ledger on the blockchain ... when they are fraudulent ones? I mean lots of people hold millions if not gazillions of Monopoly money in a box collecting dust somewhere on their bookshelves.

Oh yes, Kevin will get back his money alright if he says so ... and provided he doesn't land in some cell partnered with SBF, if both still living then.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> 'Shark Tank' investor Kevin O'Leary says he will get his money back from FTX and that the exchange needs to be audited before Sam Bankman-Fried can be found guilty
> 
> ... sounds like a desperado in complete denial and with the need to hallucinate in order to suppress the pains coming from all angles.
> 
> ...


Centralized exchanges are not on the blockchain. They were selling paper BTC but held 0 BTC on chain for example

Decentralized exchanges are on the blockchain and still work fine. If you trade an asset on a DEX you have custody of it and see the liquidity pools on chain

I imagine Kevin was already paid as a spokesperson. Same with all the politicians and regulators


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Centralized exchanges are not on the blockchain. They were selling paper BTC but held 0 BTC on chain for example
> 
> Decentralized exchanges are on the blockchain and still work fine. If you trade an asset on a DEX you have custody of it and see the liquidity pools on chain
> 
> *I imagine Kevin was already paid as a spokesperson. Same with all the politicians and regulators*


 ... then why is Kevin saying he's getting his money back? As well as requesting an audit be done first which would be even juicier. You think Kevin can take down the regulators as well?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... then why is Kevin saying he's getting his money back? As well as requesting an audit be done first which would be even juicier. You think Kevin can take down the regulators as well?


He doesn't seem genuinely upset to me

He's an entertainer/salesman "investor". Same as CNBC and Jim Cramer are entertainers. Madoff was in jail within days. Caroline is buying coffee in NYC

SBF is on twitter spaces again today. They all seem more concerned with their image than anything


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> He doesn't seem genuinely upset to me
> 
> He's an entertainer/salesman "investor". Same as CNBC and Jim Cramer are entertainers. Madoff was in jail within days. Caroline is buying coffee in NYC
> 
> SBF is on twitter spaces again today. They all seem more concerned with their image than anything


He has no reason to be upset. He gave millions to the Democrats and they'll protect him.

A person is in more danger in the US if they speak up at school board hearings. Then the DOJ will label them domestic terrorists.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> He has no reason to be upset. He gave millions to the Democrats and they'll protect him.
> 
> A person is in more danger in the US if they speak up at school board hearings. Then the DOJ will label them domestic terrorists.


Try selling raw unpasteurized milk in Canada or the US

You'll be in jail faster than the local drug dealer


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> He doesn't seem genuinely upset to me
> 
> He's an entertainer/salesman "investor". Same as CNBC and Jim Cramer are entertainers. Madoff was in jail within days. Caroline is buying coffee in NYC
> 
> SBF is on twitter spaces again today. They all seem more concerned with their image than anything


 ... if he isn't upset at all with no skin in the game, then for all intent and purpose investing in FTX was indeed a (BIG) fool's game. You took your chance and pay to dream of those riches. 

And speaking of SBF being on Twitter space again and he's only concern with his (their) image, that's the typical conman modus operandus. Image is more important than reputation ... LOL. I think that's the last of their worry ... it's just a matter of time before reality sets - most likely done once behind bars.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> He has no reason to be upset. He gave millions to the Democrats and they'll protect him.
> 
> A person is in more danger in the US if they speak up at school board hearings. Then the DOJ will label them domestic terrorists.


 ... yep, just like the GOP will continue rallying for the Dump.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> FTX was indeed a (BIG) fool's game. You took your chance and pay to dream of those riches.


I sold off crypto early in 2021 and never had anything to do with FTX anyways

Regardless how does Enron impact the the stock market? How does the .com bubble impact the internet? Seems like the stock market and internet still exist somehow decades later

Maybe stick to things you know about, which seems to not be money topics


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Seriously crypto dude........

You were still in elementary school when those collapses happened and there was plenty of financial pain for investors.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Seriously crypto dude........
> 
> You were still in elementary school when those collapses happened and there was plenty of financial pain for investors.


Do you trade anything besides hockey cards? Did you finish elementary and/or high school?

What first hand knowledge do you have to share? Let me guess you heard something from Jim Cramer on CNBC last night?

How is it that the stock market and internet still exist after Enron and the .com bubble?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

How is that relative or meaningful ?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> How is that relative or meaningful ?


Does it mean your hockey cards are worthless if you parents throw them away?

Leaving your hockey cards with your parents is the same as leaving your crypto with SBF. Your parents didn't know the hockey cards had any worth.

My grandparents probably didn't think the internet had any worth. At least they didn't think they needed to pretend they knew anything about it


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF exposed the truth about crypto. He did the world a service.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> SBF exposed the truth about crypto. He did the world a service.


Ahh yes

You must get confused by hollywood movie plots too even though they are so predictable

Think a little deeper sags. Don't hurt yourself trying though


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The crypto world is in open civil war now with the bitcoiners versus the buttcoiners taking shots at each other.

It is quite entertaining that they point out the flaws in the other side, and drag each other down in the eyes of the public.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Jamie Dimon called crypto pet rocks and decentralized ponzi schemes, but his bank does have 200 software engineers working on their own private blockchain.

That is what other major companies are doing as well. They dont need any third party tokens or sketchy blockchains created by teenage nerds.









Jamie Dimon Again Slams Crypto, Calls Blockchain 'Real'


The head of the largest U.S. bank by assets spoke during an IIF event Thursday in Washington, D.C.




www.coindesk.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Twinkletoes brothers have lost $900 million in customer funds and are looking for a bailout loan.

Maybe they can just create Winkie tokens, give them a value and hand them out.

There you go…all paid back.









Customers Of Crypto Billionaires Winklevoss’ Gemini Plead For Lost Funds


The Winklevoss twins promised “real return” for Gemini users who signed onto their lending program. Now customers are owed $900 million as the contagion that began with the collapse of Sam Bankman-Fried’s FTX crypto exchange spreads further.




www.forbes.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> Ahh yes
> 
> You must get confused by hollywood movie plots too even though they are so predictable
> 
> Think a little deeper sags. Don't hurt yourself trying though


Were there any of these defunct crypto ponzi schemes you didn’t originally pump ?

Just admit you got fooled by all the hoopla and techno babble and be done with all this crypto rubbish.

You are young and can recover.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Were there any of these defunct crypto ponzi schemes you didn’t originally pump ?
> 
> Just admit you got fooled by all the hoopla and techno babble and be done with all this crypto rubbish.
> 
> You are young and can recover.


 ... see m3s' earlier post:



m3s said:


> I sold off crypto early in 2021 and never had anything to do with FTX anyways
> 
> Regardless how does Enron impact the the stock market? How does the .com bubble impact the internet? Seems like the stock market and internet still exist somehow decades later
> 
> Maybe stick to things you know about, which seems to not be money topics


 ... you see m3s sold off his BTCs, FTX delusions and whole 9 yards of technobabble to the suckers of his gen (and younger) and made gazillions off them so that's why he is here on this forum. To reveal his "secrets". Now he's angry 'cause those secrets have been exposed as the "truths" and he can no longer continue with that conman's job.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

After saying he lost millions in the FTX scam, Kevin O’Leary admitted that the money he lost was part of the $15 million he was paid to be a spokesman for FTX.

He was on the hot seat during an interview on CNBC (on Youtube) and the hosts didn’t believe much of what he said.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> After saying he lost millions in the FTX scam, Kevin O’Leary admitted that the money he lost was part of the $15 million he was paid to be a spokesman for FTX.
> 
> He was on the hot seat during an interview on CNBC (on Youtube) and the hosts didn’t believe much of what he said.


 ... never saw that interview and don't care to.

But just based on your first paragraph and applying simple logic here. If you were to "actually work" like with "blood and/or sweat", wouldn't you be freaking out about that "'loss' ... in millions of hard-earned dollars of some digits "dollars" with 6 zeros behind it? Nope, KOLeary was likely as cool as a cucumber after making that omission. Why's that? Simply cause it's "OPM=OtherPeople'sMoney" meaning it was no sweat off his back. Ie. FTX, BTC and the whole 9 yards of "investors" equate to being "suckers". 

I'm surprised there has been no mention of the Cotton ghost yet or do these so-called investors have such (very) short term memory.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF has been arrested by Bahamian police and is in custody. He was arrested at the request of US prosecutors and the NYT reports he will be charged with the serious felony crimes of fraud and money laundering. He will be facing significant prison time.

It is also reported US prosecutors will be filing similar charges against the owners and some individuals in the next biggest crypto exchange Binance.

Kevin O'Leary, Tom Brady, and other paid celebrity shills for FTX are also being sued in civil court.

Crypto is crap and always was from the beginning. It is nothing but a myriad of ponzi schemes and frauds run by criminals.

Justice is finally catching up to them.

It will be interesting if the IRS gets involved checking the exchanges records and matching up profits with income tax returns.

There will be a lot of nervous people for awhile. They might want to consider trying to catch up with their undeclared taxes before it is too late.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I haven't been following this closely. Can someone tell me why the Bahamas thinks they should confiscate a quarter of a billion dollars worth of ftx property in the Bahamas?

Shouldn't the property be liquidated and the funds returned to the people SBF bilked? Is this a greasy Bahamas government property grab or do they have some sort of legitimate claim?









FTX spent $256 million on Bahamas real estate — now the island's government wants it back


Bahamas regulators appeal to U.S. bankruptcy judge to try to claim ownership over FTX-owned properties in New Providence, Bahamas.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> I haven't been following this closely. Can someone tell me why the Bahamas thinks they should confiscate a quarter of a billion dollars worth of ftx property in the Bahamas?


Because the property is in the Bahamas, and they claim that a Bahamian company owns that property.
Since it is a Bahamian company, US bankruptcy law has no jurisdiction.



> Shouldn't the property be liquidated and the funds returned to the people SBF bilked? Is this a greasy Bahamas government property grab or do they have some sort of legitimate claim?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the US company declaring bankruptcy is to liquidate assets, they should be forced to sell off the Bahamian company.

However a US court shouldn't be able to force a Bahamian company to take any particular action in the Bahamas, as they clearly don't have jurisdiction.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> SBF has been arrested by Bahamian police and is in custody. He was arrested at the request of US prosecutors and the NYT reports he will be charged with the serious felony crimes of fraud and money laundering. He will be facing significant prison time.
> 
> It is also reported US prosecutors will be filing similar charges against the owners and some individuals in the next biggest crypto exchange Binance.
> 
> ...


 ... Former FTX CEO Bankman-Fried arrested in Bahamas after U.S. files charges

currently article above is free (could go behind paywall later.) Anyhow, anyone can see what's going on just by the title.

I bet those who were/are supporting the self-induged and deceitful SBF's and OLeary's scam(s) are gonna to be crying foul!!!! And that the SEC is a left-winged and injust "regulator"! OKAY if you so say!


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... you see m3s sold off his BTCs, FTX delusions and whole 9 yards of technobabble to the suckers of his gen (and younger) and made gazillions off them so that's why he is here on this forum. To reveal his "secrets". Now he's angry 'cause those secrets have been exposed as the "truths" and he can no longer continue with that conman's job.


So when boomers literally sell their RE to directly to suckers and move to Mexico it's different?

Face it beaver and sags have no clue what they're talking about because they don't have anything to sell and clearly don't have real experience with markets

Liquidity is provided by whales by the way but I know you and sags don't understand such words


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Crypto is crap and always was from the beginning. It is nothing but a myriad of ponzi schemes and frauds run by criminals.
> 
> Justice is finally catching up to them.
> 
> ...


You mean like the internet in the 90s? I remember when it was all "scams and criminals" according to old people who weren't smart enough to use computers. Dumb people talk about things they have no actual knowledge of

IRS is already heavily involved with US exchanges, as that is their jurisdiction. You must provide KYC for all US exchanges and I also had to provide source of funds when selling large amounts. In Canada it's called the CRA and they have jurisdiction over Canadian exchanges.

Central exchanges domiciled within a country like how FTX was domiciled in Bahamas and FTX US in the US are distinct from "crypto" We have already established that you talk about things you have no knowledge about.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> So when boomers literally sell their RE to directly to suckers and move to Mexico it's different?
> 
> Face it beaver and sags have no clue what they're talking about because they don't have anything to sell and clearly don't have real experience with markets
> 
> Liquidity is provided by whales by the way but I know you and sags don't understand such words


 ... of course, I don't and you do, scamming others. I can't deny you're an expert scammer and forecaster. Hmmm.... Mexico ... so are you currently living there? Heard it's a lot cheaper and a place to hide out. I'm staying in Ontario, Toronto ... possibly forever.

I'll let sags comment for himself ... I enjoy the entertainment there.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> I'll let sags comment for himself ... I enjoy the entertainment there.


sags got a warehouse job at a party that required no education, no professional development or progress and stayed with it his entire life

These kinds of jobs created unions that required 6 figure salaries for jobs that could be done by anyone off the street in Mexico or China. As a result sags is overconfident in spewing unfounded misinformation because he has no experience with higher education or educating others. He never learned how to stay in his lane or cite sources properly.

Very low value content. Only beaver seems to like it for entertainment. This is not a model for the next generation. At best it's an example of what not to be


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

M3s doesn't follow the news.........so the latest on CNBC reporting is that several regulators are adding their own criminal charges on FTX including the company was never registered to have employees or be able to do business in the US. There are 8 charges from the SNDNY alone. 

It is also alleged that Alameda (a related hedge fund that was also owned by SBF) had an unlimited access to customer funds at FTX, had special provisions preventing them to ever be liquidated on their margin account and did poor accounting for their trades.

More allegations are that SBF used customer funds to buy properties in the Bahamas and other countries, spent customer funds to celebrity endorsements, naming arenas, and political contributions.

As to the Bahamas seizing property, I doubt it is meaningful as they came out awhile ago and claimed they would be doing all the investigations. Since they arrested SBF at the demands of the US DOJ it appears the US has convinced the Bahamians that no............sorry, but you won't be conducting the investigation. The US likely told the Bahamas they would make life miserable for them.......maybe by placing sanctions on them, if they didn't comply with US demands.

At this point, the Bahamanians are doing the bidding of the US or face the music.

In other related news, Binance is huge crypto exchange the DOJ has been investigating for a long time. They will be facing charges soon, but the CEO is in Dubai where there is no extradition treaty.

That may not matter though. I doubt Dubai wants to rile the US by refusing to turn him over.

More crypto exchanges and companies are now in the bullseye.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> *sags got a warehouse job at a party that required no education, no professional development or progress and stayed with it his entire life
> 
> These kinds of jobs created unions that required 6 figure salaries for jobs that could be done by anyone off the street in Mexico or China. As a result sags is overconfident in spewing unfounded misinformation because he has no experience with higher education or educating others. He never learned how to stay in his lane or cite sources properly.
> 
> Very low value content.* Only beaver seems to like it for entertainment. This is not a model for the next generation. At best it's an example of what not to be


 ... if this is not a "personal" attack, then I don't know what it is. 

So I presume your model is an EXCELLENT example for the next generation? So did you or are you gonna tell your kids to get a "PHD from the School of Scammers"? Nah, no need to as I see scamming is a natural for you. Hate to tell you, you're not unique though ... LMAO.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The US government has all the information on customers of these exchanges and the IRS will likely compare the trades to declaration for income taxes.

People who have not been declaring all profitable transactions to the IRS should be contacting a good lawyer to "settle up" before the IRS comes calling.

If the IRS is forced to make the first call, it is too late to avoid all the penalties, including criminal charges of tax evasion.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The CRA are pussies compared to the IRS........just ask Conrad Black how that went for him.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Canadian Marc Emery sold marijuana seeds in the US from Canada through the US postal service.

The US charged him with felony crimes and he spent time in a US prison. The US has long arms if they want to use them.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> M3s doesn't follow the news.........so the latest on CNBC reporting is that several regulators are adding their own criminal charges on FTX including the company was never registered to have employees or be able to do business in the US. There are 8 charges from the SNDNY alone.
> 
> It is also alleged that Alameda (a related hedge fund that was also owned by SBF) had an unlimited access to customer funds at FTX, had special provisions preventing them to ever be liquidated on their margin account and did poor accounting for their trades.
> 
> ...


 ... exactly. And the USA always win! [Look no further than the Huawei fiasco for Canada - every other country is a puppet for the USA.]



> In other related news, Binance is huge crypto exchange the DOJ has been investigating for a long time. They will be facing charges soon, but the CEO is in Dubai where there is no extradition treaty.
> 
> That may not matter though. I doubt Dubai wants to rile the US by refusing to turn him over.
> 
> More crypto exchanges and companies are now in the bullseye.


 ... interesting. I haven't read that yet. 

I think FTX is becoming the krytonite in the crypto-currency space. 

I'm sure OLeary as a Canadian will do just fine. He was only "marketing" ... LMAO.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> M3s doesn't follow the news.........so the latest on CNBC reporting is that several regulators are adding their own criminal charges on FTX including the company was never registered to have employees or be able to do business in the US. There are 8 charges from the SNDNY alone.


Everything about SBF is on twitter long before CNBC

FTX insiders and SBF have been doing interviews on twitter spaces for weeks. CNBC and mainstream are in the spaces but don't talk. CNBC basically get their "news" from twitter and then dumb it down for the boomers. Congress and senators even announce their stance on Twitter - then CNBC quote twitter or contact them

I've said all along SBF should be in jail. Hopefully he doesn't get Epsteined to protect the implicated government agencies and politicians


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

M3s should put his extensive education and understanding of proper grammar and put a period at the end of his sentences. He rarely does and that is Grammar 101.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Everything about SBF is on twitter long before CNBC
> 
> FTX insiders and SBF have been doing interviews on twitter spaces for weeks. CNBC and mainstream are in the spaces but don't talk. CNBC basically get their "news" from twitter and then dumb it down for the boomers. Congress and senators even announce their stance on Twitter - then CNBC quote twitter or contact them


 ... don't read Twit and Twats. And for those who did, I'm not sure what's the point when it's now being free-speech-dictated by Chief Twit.



> *I've said all along SBF should be in jail*. Hopefully he doesn't get Epsteined to protect the implicated government agencies and politicians


 ...sure sure sure. Working like a chameleon. Why don't you tell the US authorities to kid-glove him, unlike Epstein. Afterall, SBF is only like something 30 years old - your gen... before he goes crying to his mamma and dadda. Better yet, he should employ the services of his parents before they get lawyered up too.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I've been told Binance is the best crypto exchange, at the moment.

The DOJ has been investigating them for four years. It sounds like Binance has not done the anti money laundering testing the law requires. I suspect one of the reasons DOJ are hesitating is that knocking out Binance would cause massive loss for the get-rich-quick crowd that thinks crypto is an investment.

If Binance falls, there is always the Chinese exchanges. I'm sure they are honest.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> I've been told Binance is the best crypto exchange, at the moment.
> 
> The DOJ has been investigating them for four years. It sounds like Binance has not done the anti money laundering testing the law requires. I suspect one of the reasons DOJ are hesitating is that knocking out Binance would cause massive loss for the get-rich-quick crowd that thinks crypto is an investment.
> 
> If Binance falls, there is always Zhao.and the Chinese exchanges. I'm sure they are honest.


 ... and so are the exchanges in Dubai where Zhao does his Binance business primarily. Strange isn't it? 

Whether the Chinese exchanges are honest or not, not for you to determine. Its own government will determine that.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

CNBC is covering the story very closely. They are following the Congressional hearing and interviewing US regulators live.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> I've been told Binance is the best crypto exchange, at the moment.
> 
> The DOJ has been investigating them for four years. It sounds like Binance has not done the anti money laundering testing the law requires. I suspect one of the reasons DOJ are hesitating is that knocking out Binance would cause massive loss for the get-rich-quick crowd that thinks crypto is an investment.
> 
> If Binance falls, there is always Zhao.and the Chinese exchanges. I'm sure they are honest.


Zhao is known as CZ and is the CEO of Binance. The company operates out of China, but he is reputed to be living in Dubai as he is sought by several governments.

It is reported that Binance.........and others, are going to face criminal charges and investigations. Crypto is full of all manner of criminal activity.

The hammer is being slammed down.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> I've been told Binance is the best crypto exchange, at the moment.
> 
> The DOJ has been investigating them for four years. It sounds like Binance has not done the anti money laundering testing the law requires. I suspect one of the reasons DOJ are hesitating is that knocking out Binance would cause massive loss for the get-rich-quick crowd that thinks crypto is an investment.
> 
> If Binance falls, there is always Zhao.and the Chinese exchanges. I'm sure they are honest.


Binance and FTX had similar structure (Binance US and FTX US were separate entities for US customers)

Binance also has BNB similar to FTX's FTT. Also Binance dumped FTT which is what caused the panic and collapse of FTX. There is also a lot of data that indicated FTX is what caused earlier collapse of Luna/UST and subsequently 3AC

Kraken is a registered US bank and coinbase is a public traded company in the US. The central exchanges need more regulation but clearly governments would rather see things like FTX


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

US President Biden will be making some public comments on the current economic situation. It will be interesting if he mentions crypto investigations.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> US President Biden will be making some public comments on the situation.


I'm sure he will mention how a criminal was his 2nd largest donor

And how they donated money to Ukraine that was really going back to FTX


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

sags said:


> M3s should put his extensive education and understanding of proper grammar and put a period at the end of his sentences. He rarely does and that is Grammar 101.


Are you and Beaver trying to run off M3S because you don't share his perspective on money management? Perhaps he isn't part of your clique?

Wouldn't it be nice, at a time like this, to have the perspective of a younger person who believes in crypto?

I would appreciate hearing from M3S and the pro-crypto folks with regard to the fall of the exchanges and what it means for crypto trading. Some of the money that leaves crypto could well end up in the markets. It might be nice to get a feel of how much optimism is in the crypto community and you certainly won't get any insight on that from me.

M3S (or any crypto trader), if you are monitoring this thread, I would appreciate if you would share if your perspective on crypto has changed at all, given the turmoil in the world of crypto exchanges.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> M3S (or any crypto trader), if you are monitoring this thread, I would appreciate if you would share if your perspective on crypto has changed at all, given the turmoil in the world of crypto exchanges.


I'm a crypto-tech believer, crypto-coin-investment price skeptic.

The "turmoil" is a bunch of people sent a lot of money to a scammer, who spent all the money.

The "crypto" aspect is just that was the hook, the scam had virtually nothing to do with crypto. Look at the latest "surprise", he bought tens or hundreds of millions in tropical real-estate with the money.
It's not as much a crypto scam as it is a normal everyday scam.

A bunch of "smart" people thought they'd get money for nothing, and of course they got nothing for their money.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> M3S (or any crypto trader), if you are monitoring this thread, I would appreciate if you would share if your perspective on crypto has changed at all, given the turmoil in the world of crypto exchanges.


In the short term it's bad obviously but it's good in the long term.

We are seeing record withdrawals from Binance today. There have been massive withdrawals from all centralized exchanges since the FTX fiasco. This is certainly the largest centralized exchange to collapse but far from the first

FTX was also mixed in with many venture capitalists. They created mostly centralized blockchains such as Solana, Terra/Luna, Avalanche where insiders controlled most of the assets, keys and they controlled the media narrative to disparage more decentralized chains

The last thing crypto needs is people like SBF (FTX/Solana) and CZ (Binance/BNB) centralizing control.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> In the short term it's bad obviously but it's good in the long term.


Nope, it's good short term, and even better long term.

These scams are obvious for anyone looking closely. Critics pointed out the problem.
These ever larger events are a wake up call to everyone else to watch out for scams.

A skeptical investing public, watching for scams is good all around.

Other than the personal misfortune, I hope those who lost money take it as a lesson to do their due diligence and watch for scams.
I really don't see a downside, other than increased scrutiny on "crypto", which is needed anyway.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Are you and Beaver trying to run off M3S because you don't share his perspective on money management? Perhaps he isn't part of your clique?
> 
> *Wouldn't it be nice, at a time like this, to have the perspective of a younger person who believes in crypto?*


It is readily available in past threads on crypto.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Binance has temporarily halted withdrawals on USDC a short while ago.

I understand this is mostly off topic but it may be a run on a block chain caused by news like FTX falling.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)




----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

There is no such thing as a decentralized blockchain or exchange. They are an illusion that don't exist.

The bitcoin blockchain started out as a decentralized exchange with individual miners all over the world, but all the computing power is generated by massive mining farms now.

A couple of big mining farms and pools control the hash rate and make all the decisions.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Binance has temporarily halted withdrawals on USDC a short while ago.
> 
> I understand this is mostly off topic but it may be a run on a block chain caused by news like FTX falling.


Hopefully that raises more questions.
If they actually have the USDC they're trading, it should be a non issue. If not, people should ask why.

These questions need to be asked, and they need to be answered, and we'll be left with a healthier market because of it.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Binance has temporarily halted withdrawals on USDC a short while ago.
> 
> I understand this is mostly off topic but it may be a run on a block chain caused by news like FTX falling.


It would be a run on the exchange.......not a blockchain.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Anyone who wants very good, easy to understand, well presented facts on all the crypto..........there is a Youtuber called Coffeezilla who has great videos on it all.

He also has a Twitter [email protected]_YT


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Hopefully that raises more questions.
> If they actually have the USDC they're trading, it should be a non issue. If not, people should ask why.
> 
> These questions need to be asked, and they need to be answered, and we'll be left with a healthier market because of it.


The CEO is hiding in Dubai. The exchange is in China. Who you gonna ask ?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

NFTs were popular for a brief period. They were the next best thing, according to the pumpers.

Then people started to realize they were paying huge money to own nothing but a hyperlink on the internet that pointed to a file on some computer server somewhere.

If the computer server changed the location of the file or shut down...........the NFT would just get an error message.

The market for NFTs collapsed and nobody talks about them anymore.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Binance has temporarily halted withdrawals on USDC a short while ago.
> 
> I understand this is mostly off topic but it may be a run on a block chain caused by news like FTX falling.


Source? If it's from last night it's probably outdated

It's pretty common for Binance to temporarily halt withdrawals. That said they are seeing massive withdrawals today

Where there is smoke there is fire I wouldn't want to be on Binance or BSC (I've used both but not as a place to store value)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602579499903852544


MrMatt said:


> Hopefully that raises more questions.
> If they actually have the USDC they're trading, it should be a non issue. If not, people should ask why.
> 
> These questions need to be asked, and they need to be answered, and we'll be left with a healthier market because of it.


CZ responded above 9 hrs ago (before US banks opened)

Twitter is the fastest place for this kind of info

CNBC operates on a delayed timeline


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

No withdrawals because the banks in NY are closed ?

What a hoot.........is CZ going to hop on an airplane in Dubai, and fly to NY with a bag of cash to make a deposit physically ?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Are you and Beaver trying to run off M3S because you don't share his perspective on money management? Perhaps he isn't part of your clique?


 ... no, why are we running him off because you believe that we don't share his clique? Do you? Like he shares his clique with "boomers" (a nightmare for him) of which you don't belong to at age 55 I suppose? How farcial is that? If we wanted to run him off, both sags and I could have "reported" him like some crybabies do on this forum ... like being go on the first offense accusation of being "personally" attacked.



> Wouldn't it be nice, at a time like this, to have the perspective of a younger person who believes in crypto?


 ...it has already been done "at length like pages and pages" as sags stated in his post #293. He would know since he created that thread. Have you taken an interest there even?



> I would appreciate hearing from M3S and the pro-crypto folks with regard to the fall of the exchanges and what it means for crypto trading. Some of the money that leaves crypto could well end up in the markets. It might be nice to get a feel of how much optimism is in the crypto community and you certainly won't get any insight on that from me.
> 
> M3S (or any crypto trader), if you are monitoring this thread, I would appreciate if you would share if your perspective on crypto has changed at all, given the turmoil in the world of crypto exchanges.


 ... YAWN. This thread is not about "crypto-currency" per se. It's about OLeary and FTX. SBF owns (or owned) FTX and OLeary was pushing it also. Both are scammers, typical modus operandus of "marketers". Only a blind person with an IQ not belonging to the boomers era (with some exceptions as noted here above) can clearly see that.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Somebody give the Congressman of Minnesota a cookie

A very wise old boomer


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602715577067372544


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> No withdrawals because the banks in NY are closed ?
> 
> What a hoot.........is CZ going to hop on an airplane in Dubai, and fly to NY with a bag of cash to make a deposit physically ?


 ... I read just yesterday that SBF stated he had no problem "testifying" in the USA. Now he's appealing the extradition. Isn't that revealing. 

What SBF is saying "see my lips - I'm saying this = yes here" but I actually meant that or "no there". Again, typical modus operandus of SCAMMERs - a bunch of weasels in the most polite term.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Congressman Brad Sherman got an F from the crypto industry for speaking the truth about crypto.

Today he said........people will try to say SBF is a snake in the crypto garden. The fact is that crypto is a garden of snakes.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> MrMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully that raises more questions.
> ...


That response raises questions.
If I have USDC in my account, why can't I withdraw it?

Why are you bringing up PAX/BUSD, that SHOULD be irrelevant.

If you're reporting I have USDC in my account, but it's really PAX/BUSD, that should be clear and disclosed.

These are all important questions, and it's good that people are asking them publicly and loudly.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I read just yesterday that SBF stated he had no problem "testifying" in the USA. Now he's appealing the extradition. Isn't that revealing.
> 
> What SBF is saying "see my lips - I'm saying this = yes here" but I actually meant that or "no there". Again, typical modus operandus of SCAMMERs - a bunch of weasels in the most polite term.


Your sources are awfully outdated then

He stated himself on Twitter he wouldn't attend because "his schedule was full" lol. That's probably when they moved to extradite him

What you "read yesterday" is clearly irrelevant


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... no, why are we running him off because you believe that we don't share his clique? Do you? Like he shares his clique with "boomers" (a nightmare for him) of which you don't belong to at age 55 I suppose? How farcial is that? If we wanted to run him off, both sags and I could have "reported" him like some crybabies do on this forum ... like being go on the first offense accusation of being "personally" attacked.
> 
> ...it has already been done "at length like pages and pages" as sags stated in his post #293. He would know since he created that thread. Have you taken an interest there even?
> 
> ... YAWN. This thread is not about "crypto-currency" per se. It's about OLeary and FTX. SBF owns (or owned) FTX and OLeary was pushing it also. Both are scammers, typical modus operandus of "marketers". Only a blind person with an IQ not belonging to the boomers era (with some exceptions as noted here above) can clearly see that.


Yup......M3s has proven to be perfectly capable of dishing it out as good as he gets.

I have no problem with his posts, which are often humorous to me. I was young once too.

Besides, if bitcoin crashes enough I might buy a little..........just in case I am wrong and could get rich from it, and will have to ask M3s the best way to store it.

Never say never......is my motto.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> That response raises questions.
> If I have USDC in my account, why can't I withdraw it?
> 
> Why are you bringing up PAX/BUSD, that SHOULD be irrelevant.
> ...


As a user of centralized exchanges including Binance it is pretty common for them to temporarily halt withdrawals

They are an exchange so it is understandable if there are higher volume than normal swapping to USDC and withdraw more than expected. We are seeing record withdrawals as people want to "get off centralized exchanges"

I'm just saying it does happen often that they temporarily halt withdrawals while they adjust/settle assets. Again when there is smoke I wouldn't want to test it myself. Binance has always been considered riskier than say Kraken/coinbase

Kraken has higher fees but they have far less issues like this. About 1.5% fees on Kraken/coinbase for me vs 0.15% on Binance


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> US President Biden will be making some public comments on the current economic situation. It will be interesting if he mentions crypto investigations.


Biden only reads what's put in front of him. He has no clue what's going on.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Your sources are awfully outdated then


 ... how can my sources be outdated when it was stated only "yesterday" on the front page of the G&M of the investment section plus other major Canadian newspapers along with US publications? I guess it's "outdated" when you don't follow Twitter by the second like today.



> He stated himself on Twitter he wouldn't attend because "his schedule was full" lol. That's probably when they moved to extradite him


 ... sure, his schedule is "full". It's gonna to be full alright trying every way to skip the USA. I would like to see just how much talents he "really" have in avoiding "extradition". I can hear the cry of "momma and dadda - HELP!!! " And I haven't read the outdated headline of this morning that momma and dadda better lawyer up too ... too bad, so sad.



> What you "read yesterday" is clearly irrelevant


 ... if you say so ... it's not of your clique.... LMAO.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Yup......M3s has proven to be perfectly capable of dishing it out as good as he gets.
> 
> I have no problem with his posts, which are often humorous to me. I was young once too.
> 
> ...


 ... in Mexico! Surrounded by case load of ammos if not tanks and bazookas. m3s would know best on this based on his other side hustle.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> Biden only reads what's put in front of him. He has no clue what's going on.


That's pretty much what he should do.

He should have a massive staff that does all the heavy lifting for him.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... how can my sources be outdated when it was stated only "yesterday" on the front page of the G&M of the investment section plus other major Canadian newspapers along with US publications? I guess it's "outdated" when you don't follow Twitter by the second like today.
> 
> ... sure, his schedule is "full". It's gonna to be full alright trying every way to skip the USA. I would like to see just how much talents he "really" have in avoiding "extradition". I can hear the cry of "momma and dadda - HELP!!! " And I haven't read the outdated headline of this morning that momma and dadda better lawyer up too ... too bad, so sad.


Maybe G&M will update you tomorrow on what SBF tweeted more recently

He was pretty active in twitter spaces past few weeks which is all recorded on twitter for the G&M "journalists" to quote. Hopefully that's over and he won't have access to internet from jail

His parents apparently have RE in Bahamas. Hopefully that is confiscated as well


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> That's pretty much what he should do.
> 
> He should have a massive staff that does all the heavy lifting for him.


My point was that Biden isn't mentally capable of making any decisions. Someone else makes all the decisions and he just reads what they tell him. The job of president requires a lot more than just reading from a teleprompter.


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> Biden only reads what's put in front of him. He has no clue what's going on.


Don't forget he reads all his prescription pill information leaflets again and again. Oh and his Metamucil and all bran cereal box labels


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> My point was that Biden isn't mentally capable of making any decisions. Someone else makes all the decisions and he just reads what they tell him. The job of president requires a lot more than just reading from a teleprompter.


That's a nice theory, and you could say the same thing about Prime Ministers and other world leaders.

However the democracies of the world disagree. They want someone who tells them what they want to hear.
That's what they vote for.

Also I challenge that reading from a teleprompter is required, I don't think Biden even does that very well.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> His parents apparently have RE in Bahamas. Hopefully that is confiscated as well


Why? 
Are his parents holding the proceeds of a crime?
Have they been charged?

I'm all for throwing the book at him, but going after his family, not cool.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> Why?
> Are his parents holding the proceeds of a crime?
> Have they been charged?
> 
> I'm all for throwing the book at him, but going after his family, not cool.


 ... and do you honestly think both of his parents, being law professors at Stanford Uni have the means to buy "multi-million dollar properties" ... not in the USA strangely but in the Bahamas where they're now located?

Read the latest, his mother laughed at his extradition hearing and his father had his ears plugged. Why? What role model parents. Do they sound like loving? It would not surprise me that they'll not have "their wealth" stolen back by not returning to the USA which means trading their son with those proceeds. What a 6 feet deep sucker.

Sam Bankman-Fried's parents were at his hearing in the Bahamas, and his mother laughed during the proceedings, report says



> _Author Sindhu-Sundar, Dec. 13, 2022
> 
> During the proceedings, Bankman-Fried's mother Barbara Fried laughed when her son was called a "fugitive," according to CoinDesk's report, which described his parents as showing both "dejection and defiance." She also "clenched her jaw and chewed on the frames of her glasses," per the Times.
> 
> ...


 ... I thought it was only boomers who needed to do that and not a 30 year old youngster. Unless, momma and dadda gave the directions ... Stanford Uni professors? Hmmmm....


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

More tidbits...

SBF was indicted by a grand jury last week in New York.

The US and the Bahamas have an extradition treaty.

SBF is facing multiple charges from the DOJ and US. regulators.

SBF was denied bail in a bail hearing in the Bahamas. The judge said he was a "flight risk".

The SDNY AG said that anyone who benefited from the criminal activity would be better to come forward now before the DOJ has to come for them.

He also said the IRS was already involved in tracking the money and gathering tax information to ensure compliance with US law by customers of FTX and Alameda.

Interesting that the CEO of Alameda is not charged yet. She is apparently cooperating with the DOJ.

The parents of SBF were living in a mansion bought by SBF with customer money. They are also facing scrutiny by investigators for any role they may have played.

SBF was issuing loans of customer money where he was both the issuer of the loan and the recipient of the loan.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> More tidbits...
> 
> SBF was indicted by a grand jury last week in New York.
> 
> Interesting that the CEO of Alameda is not charged yet. She is apparently cooperating with the DOJ.


She was spotted in a coffee shop in Manhattan

Someone called the coffee shop to confirm it was Caroline

Maybe she got some kind of plea deal











> Ellison was evidently familiar with the fact that the nature of her work closely resembled wire or securities fraud. Or at least, she was allegedly part of the supposedly poly squad’s Signal group chat, titled “Wirefraud.” She also once soberly advised her Tumblr followers on how to avoid “wire fraud” indictments, and joked on that same Tumblr about putting wire fraud in her dating profile. “How do I signal my genuinely sweet and feminine nature on my dating profile?" Ellison asked on her since-deleted blog. “Should it go before or after the section on wire fraud?”


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Some of you actually think that the people who laundered $40 million (at least) to the Democrat party will really be prosecuted.

Hilarious.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> ... and do you honestly think both of his parents, being law professors at Stanford Uni have the means to buy "multi-million dollar properties" ... not in the USA strangely but in the Bahamas where they're now located?


I honestly think its possible. I haven't revealed my net worth in this forum but I could afford a surprising amount of materialism. This, and I am not an ivy league law professor.

I'm 99.9% confident there are many others in this forum with higher net worth than me so I see no need for incredulity.

So, it is a definite possibility.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> I honestly think its possible. I haven't revealed my net worth in this forum but I could afford a surprising amount of materialism. This, and I am not an ivy league law professor.
> 
> I'm 99.9% confident there are many others in this forum with higher net worth than me so I see no need for incredulity.
> 
> So, it is a definite possibility.


 ... why the Bahamas? You can buy "a" nice house in California, USA which is just as warm and by the beach for US$15M average.

Multiply that by 2 and then 4 and so on .... and declare here on this forum that is a possibility, honestly too ... the sky is the limit with this strategy ... with OP'sM of course.

Besides, how many mansions does a couple need for their 9 kids (if so)? 

I think the "real" test will be to see just how educated these 2 so-called "Law Professors" are to avoid jail. Maybe they can share the same cell with their baby.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Beaver101 said:


> ... why the Bahamas?


Lmao!!!!

My goodness. Why would anyone buy real estate in the Bahamas unless they are up to no good? 😬😬😬

Beaver, you need to skip a couple of weekly meetings of "Housewives against civility" and take a trip to Freeport so you have the first bloody clue what you're talking about.

Really, it will do you a world of good and lower the CMF server load by 10%.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Really, it will do you a world of good and lower the CMF server load by 10%.


Ignore is a wonderful thing


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF bought the properties for his parents using FTX customer funds. There is no doubt about that as there are loans issued by and to SBF for the money.

The sale and distribution of the proceeds from the sale of the Bahamian properties is a point of contention between the Bahamas and the US FTX bankruptcy lawyers.

A week or so ago, the Bahamian AG announced at a press conference they had the regulations and justice system to conduct all the necessary proceedings.

The US response was to demand the arrest, detention, and likely future extradition of SBF to US soil to face US justice.

It appears the US informed the Bahamas who is wearing the big boy pants.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The question of SBFs parents involvement in FTX is being openly discussed on the internet, so I think it highly unlikely US authorities are not investigating any possible ties.

According to expert lawyers, the prevailing concern in these types of court cases is the matter of intent, and is likely why SBF went to great lengths in many interviews to fashion a persona that he was just a dumb kid who made a couple of mistakes, or hired other people who made mistakes and he was too busy to learn about them.

The evidence is overwhelming that claim, as it was SBF who signed for many of the loans from himself to himself.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> The US response was to demand the arrest, detention, and likely future extradition of SBF to US soil to face US justice.


Arrested conveniently just before he was going to testify at a congressional hearing. The coverup is proceeding exactly as planned.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Lmao!!!!
> 
> My goodness. Why would anyone buy real estate in the Bahamas unless they are up to no good? 😬😬😬
> 
> ...


What is the point of your posts ?

Is it your contention that SBF was just a dumb kid with dumb parents who had no idea where all these hundreds of millions of dollars were coming from ?


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

sags said:


> What is the point of your posts?


Surely you can follow the idea that buying a house in the Bahamas is not a smoking gun that SBF's parents are complicit.

If they are dirty, lock them up but owning a vacation home is not a crime, last I checked.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> Arrested conveniently just before he was going to testify at a congressional hearing. The coverup is proceeding exactly as planned.


The SDNY announcement made it very clear that anyone, including politicians and celebrities, who received illegally obtained funds from SBF will be required to repay the funds.

Some politicians have said they will donate the money to charity, but it isn't their money to donate.......so the DOJ wants the money back to distribute to affected customers.

The IRS is already comparing income tax returns for customers who were trading for profit on the SBF exchange and Alameda Research hedge fund for US tax law compliance.

A whole lot of people are going to be writing cheques to the DOJ or IRS because the DOJ clearly warned them .....don't make us come for you.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

The DOJ doesn't prosecute Democrats. They collude with them.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> What is the point of your posts ?
> 
> Is it your contention that SBF was just a dumb kid with dumb parents who had no idea where all these hundreds of millions of dollars were coming from ?


 .. yeah, what is the point of Tom16's posts? To tell me to get off CMF so it can lighten their server by 10% and that dumb suggestion of skipping the HouseWives tv series (god, who watches those gossip witches anyways except the same gossip witches and idiots I guess.). I don't even view Twitter let alone spend a minute watching those crap series.

So what is Tom16 doing on CMF at 8 am in the morning - I thought he was on a "cruise" aka "vacationing" aka "enjoying his time there" aka "enjoying his 2 years craved travelling"....etc., etc.? And in addition, falsely accusing me of bringing up the "subjects of DeSantis and myocarditis". 

Hate to ask you Tom16 this since you provoked me to do so now with those dumb suggestions plus earlier accusations. Did you fall off (or maybe kicked off to) the wrong side of bed this morning?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Surely you can follow the idea that buying a house in the Bahamas is not a smoking gun that SBF's parents are complicit.


 ... ya, you're just repeating what I was saying.



> If they are dirty, lock them up but owning a vacation home is not a crime, last I checked.


 .. no but owning a vacation home (and several at that btw) with proceeds of a crime is a CRIME, no? Hello, law professor(s)????!!!!

Do what father SBF do - stick your fingers in your ears and say "I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing." The typical stupid, dumb and deaf game. Surely all those years getting those PHDs was well worth it!!!!!


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> Ignore is a wonderful thing


 ... so Tom16, do you want to be added to my Signature's List at MrMatt's suggestion? He's helping ya here and I'm offering my civility.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

HappilyRetired said:


> The DOJ doesn't prosecute Democrats. They collude with them.





HappilyRetired said:


> The DOJ doesn't prosecute Democrats. They collude with them.


When the DOJ gives a free pass to the Democrats, I am confident you will point it out.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> When the DOJ gives a free pass to the Democrats, I am confident you will point it out.


Were you sleeping for the entire 3 years of the Russian collusion hoax?

Or when they claimed that Hunter Biden's laptop was fake?

Or, are you just lying again?


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> The DOJ doesn't prosecute Democrats. They collude with them.


So logically we should expect a mass exodus of Republicans suspected of criminality crossing the aisle to disappear from the DOJ any minute now.to save their sleazy asses.

Wait..... that is nonsense ... sorry. They all know the Orange leader will leave the golf course to become king and give them all pardons and medals. 

He can make a speech without the teleprompter....something to show he is a better man than Biden probably along the lines of person, woman, man camera, TV.


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Kevin O’Leary Points Finger At Binance For FTX Crash In Senate Testimony (forbes.com)

I watched some of O'leary's testimony but cannot find a link to the video.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Binance did dump on FTX

But if they weren't leveraging customer deposits it wouldn't have caused them to be insolvent

Not to mention O'Leary was a paid endorsement


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

I've never liked Kevin O'Leary so I am clearly biased but he gives snake oil salesmen a bad name.


----------



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... if this is not a "personal" attack, then I don't know what it is.


If anyone could point out a personal attack, it is definitely you. I think you'd know best.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

londoncalling said:


> Kevin O’Leary Points Finger At Binance For FTX Crash In Senate Testimony (forbes.com)
> 
> I watched some of O'leary's testimony but cannot find a link to the video.


He's just angry he didn't get an endorsement from Binance.

The reality is that FTX didn't actually have the assets they reported to their clients.

it was a simple fraud.


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Gothenburg83 said:


> So logically we should expect a mass exodus of Republicans suspected of criminality crossing the aisle to disappear from the DOJ any minute now.to save their sleazy asses.


By suspected criminality, what you really mean is unsubstantiated leftist lies. You know, like the Russian collusion hoax that the left desperately clung to for 3 full years.

How many times do you have to be lied to before it sinks in?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> If anyone could point out a personal attack, it is definitely you. I think you'd know best.


 ... why don't you ask Tom16 that first and then reflect on what you just falsely alleged. Still feeling sore about being glammed by your PMs to you know who? Poor baby ... LMAO 

Oh, and thanks for reminding me to add your name to my list.


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> By suspected criminality, what you really mean is unsubstantiated leftist lies. You know, like the Russian collusion hoax that the left desperately clung to for 3 full years.
> 
> How many times do you have to be lied to before it sinks in?


No sorry that isn't even close to what I mean. HR shoots.. he misses!

But thanks for the reply and thanks for sharing with us what is front and center in your mind. It helps explain your earlier post about the DOJ and people with a (R) Oh and a lot more besides.

Please go & buy your family some gifts for Xmas and enjoy the look of surprise on their faces.

Perfect Gifts For You and Your Friends

No card of the golden shower.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ He even accepts crypto but it has to be with Wrapped Ether (WETH) but that requires a KYC/AML aka Know Your Client/Anti-Money Laundering. Now watch, there's gonna to be time-limit to these purchases and WETH will be wrapped up by mid-January. 

Look at the answers to the "Sweepstakes" to the Gala, which is basically the same for the MAL CockTail Hour, 18 hole golf etc. with the Dump.



> _The location will be in South Florida. *We will give you at least 30 day's notice to plan your trip*. All costs and expenses associated with the Live Event made available to Digital Trading Card owners including, but not limited to, all federal, state, and local taxes, air and ground transportation, gratuities, airline luggage charges, incidentals, upgrades, insurance, service charges, and other misc. travel *expenses are the sole and exclusive responsibility of those that attend the Gala Dinner* (Black Tie is optional)._


 ... they mean "if" they give you any notice at all.

And here's the answer to the question to the "Individual Zoom call" as well as the group one.



> _Date and time to be determined by Sponsor in its sole discretion but we will give at least 30 days’ notice._


 ... and another one - our site will be down by mid-January once we got enough money collected from the suckers.

And the answer to the question on whether these NFT trading cards are going to the Dump's 2024 Presidential Campaign:



> _NO. These Digital Trading Cards are not political and have nothing to do with any political campaign. NFT INT LLC is not owned, managed or controlled by Donald J. Trump, The Trump Organization, CIC Digital LLC or any of their respective principals or affiliates. NFT INT LLC uses Donald J. Trump's name, likeness and image under paid license from CIC Digital LLC, which license may be terminated or revoked according to its terms._


All above points to one direction -a fool and his/her money will soon part. Or in the famous saying of Donald Trump "I LOVE YOU!!!! (silent word: IDIOT)".


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ He even accepts crypto but it has to be with Wrapped Ether (WETH) but that requires a KYC/AML aka Know Your Client/Anti-Money Laundering. Now watch, there's gonna to be time-limit to these purchases and WETH will be wrapped up by mid-January.
> 
> Look at the answers to the "Sweepstakes" to the Gala, which is basically the same for the MAL CockTail Hour, 18 hole golf etc. with the Dump.
> 
> ...


Here is what I gleamed.
Purchasing a Trump card automatically enters you into a sweepstakes to meet Trump for a cocktail hour or round of golf at his Florida estate. Buying* 45 cards (willl help save the republic of the US of A AND) * forking over $4,500 — gets you invited to a “gala dinner” with Trump *somewhere* in “South Florida.” But as the fine print notes, you are responsible for your own lodging and transportation to and from the event

This grift is from a senoir citizen selling pointless childish cartoons- The man is running for the top job! 

I hope that the targets of this Irresistible offer stop drinking this particular colour of cool -aid.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Trump family just can't help themselves.

They are like a touring circus troupe complete with freak shows, fortune tellers, and stuffed African animals.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gothenburg83 said:


> This grift is from a senoir citizen selling pointless childish cartoons- The man is running for the top job!
> 
> I hope that the targets of this Irresistible offer stop drinking this particular colour of cool -aid.


Seniors are clueless. There should be an age limit on the presidency. Except nobody young wants the clown job

Melania already tried this and it failed. People tracked wash trades on the blockchain (by her amateur team I suppose)

He should get a sponsorship from viagra or metamucil if he needs funds. Sell metamucil metaverse NFTs


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Seniors are clueless. There should be an age limit on the presidency. Except nobody young wants the clown job


Nope

I'd love to screen our elected officials for competence, but those limits can be skewed a number of ways.

The people decided who they wanted, good or bad that's who they get.
Could you imagine the gerrymandering mess on the screening board for who is even allowed to run?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Nope
> 
> I'd love to screen our elected officials for competence, but those limits can be skewed a number of ways.
> 
> ...


There's already a lower age limit

So why can't there be an upper age limit?

Who needs a screening board for age


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Gothenburg83 said:


> Here is what I gleamed.
> Purchasing a Trump card automatically enters you into a sweepstakes to meet Trump for a cocktail hour or round of golf at his Florida estate. Buying* 45 cards (willl help save the republic of the US of A AND) * forking over $4,500 — gets you invited to a “gala dinner” with Trump *somewhere* in “South Florida.” But as the fine print notes, you are responsible for your own lodging and transportation to and from the event


 ... how is purchasing a Dump DTC a guarantee to the sweepstakes when under the question of "Is my sweepstakes entry tied to my Digital Trading Card?" when the answer is,



> _*No. The Trump Digital Trading Card you ultimately receive is randomly generated, and the sweepstakes entry code you receive is also randomly sent*. Receiving a one-of-one Trump Digital Trading card has no bearing on whether your sweepstakes code will be a winner. You have the same chance of winning a prize in the sweepstakes if you enter by purchasing an NFT or by entering without making a purchase._


 ... so this is contrary to the earlier statement that purchasing 45 DTC will "guarantee" you the gala, cocktail, golf round, blah blah blah which is outright fraud right at the beginning. Imagine buying 45 DTCs - all of them are randomly generated - Did you see a Joker card or Wonder Woman there? [I didn't bother to check.] And then your sweepstakes entryis also randomly sent. Imagine buy 45 DTC, get 30 Jokers and 15 Wonder Woman ... and then "beep, zero sweepstake entry 44 times" and then you get REALLY lucky with the last round of 1 sweepstakes entry. HOLY SH1T.



> This grift is from a senoir citizen selling pointless childish cartoons- The man is running for the top job!
> 
> I hope that the targets of this Irresistible offer stop drinking this particular colour of cool -aid.


 ... this con should have looonggg been in jail.


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

HappilyRetired said:


> The DOJ doesn't prosecute Democrats. They collude with them.


Maybe the DoJ is just levelling the playing field for the Dems.

After all the Republicans have a DJT 76 year old orange superhero with massive thighs (yoga and pilates classes I suspect) and laser beam from the eyes ( not Jewish lasers) 

It is a funny world we live in HR, I hope you can have a chuckle from time to time.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> There's already a lower age limit
> 
> So why can't there be an upper age limit?
> 
> Who needs a screening board for age


There could be a skin colour requirement too if you want.
I want as few restrictions as possible.

I think that the only justifiable age limit should be 18, as you're not legally an adult until then.

There is no logical argument for upper age limit.
There is an argument for cognitive ability/decline, but again I don't trust a screening board there.

I'd rather just let people choose whoever they want. Also I've been strongly against Biden as president, because I think he is suffering age related cognitive decline. But even then I think it is up to the people to decide if, even with those cognitive impairments, if he is the best person for the job.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> There could be a skin colour requirement too if you want.
> I want as few restrictions as possible.
> 
> I think that the only justifiable age limit should be 18, as you're not legally an adult until then.


It's 35 in the US. I said nothing about a skin colour restriction

We have lots of age related restrictions and clearly we need upper age limits on driving and commander-in-chief of the largest militaries

Russia for example is suffering because their boomer president cognitive abilities


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Unbelievable level of contagion.

What a tangled web we weave …


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Since O'Leary was a spokesman for FTX and lobbyist, who endorsed FTX's business to government & financial firms, I think there's a good chance *O'Leary might be a conspirator of Bankman-Fried*, and could face criminal charges himself.

Or who knows, maybe O'Leary is already (quietly) cooperating with US prosecutors to save himself.

For example, Bankman-Fried has been charged with violating political campaign finance laws. O'Learly admitted, on CNBC, that he meets with American politicians as a representative of FTX. So maybe O'Leary violated the same campaign finance laws.

Going forward, nobody should ever do business with Kevin O'Leary. Someone who is this closely associated with criminals and charlatans, and who has a history of shady dealings (The Learning Company in 1999 and now FTX), at this point has so many red flags by his name that he should be completely blacklisted from the business world.

You can tell just by the way O'Leary conducts himself that he's a sleazebag. My gut feeling is that he knew FTX and Bankman-Fried were crooks, and knew about the criminal activities. I think he will be lucky if he walks away from this without facing criminal charges. He will definitely face civil lawsuits though.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> It's 35 in the US. I said nothing about a skin colour restriction
> 
> We have lots of age related restrictions and clearly we need upper age limits on driving and commander-in-chief of the largest militaries
> 
> Russia for example is suffering because their boomer president cognitive abilities


It's 18 in Canada.

We shouldn't have age limits except where necessary, and I think that the general rule of 18 to be an adult is a fine one.
Otherwise I think they're unfair and discriminatory, just like discriminating on skin colour.

Why do we need age limits on driving and commander in chief?
You're doing the lazy correlation thing
I know (of) people in their 40's who have suffered enough decline that they shouldn't be driving, I know people in their 70 & 80's who drive better than most

If the problem is one of competence to perform the function, that should be the criteria, not some arbitrary age thing.

Remember, the President of the US was screened and selected by the people, that's who they want.
I don't like the idea of some political appointees screening candidates. That's dangerous.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Remember, the President of the US was screened and selected by the people, that's who they want.
> I don't like the idea of some political appointees screening candidates. That's dangerous.


They were screened and selected by their parties. The people were given 2 bad choices because no competent people want that job

Most militaries have a max age limit and then like most arbitrary limits it can be waived in the military. If you don't have a limit to start with then it isn't assessed. We should also have driver tests for drivers over x age.

You shouldn't be commander-in-chief of a superpower military if you're too old to serve.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> They were screened and selected by their parties. The people were given 2 bad choices because no competent people want that job
> 
> Most militaries have a max age limit and then like most arbitrary limits it can be waived in the military. If you don't have a limit to start with then it isn't assessed. We should also have driver tests for drivers over x age.
> 
> You shouldn't be commander-in-chief of a superpower military if you're too old to serve.


Clearly the age limit was waived by the voters then.

You're clearly ageist. You really should try to understand why you're allowing yourself to discriminate in this manner, unless you really have no interest in being objective.

It's intellectually lazy to just blame age.


The reason they waive the age limit is that in some cases the physical requirements simply aren't there, or they can make them.
My only opposition to Biden as President is that I don't think he's able to due the job, due to his cognitive problems.
Similarly I don't think you're able to do the job due to your cognitive problems.

In both cases I don't think someones opinion should immediately disqualify you.
That is an individual or small group of individuals should not be able to unilaterally disqualify candidates for political office.

That is the job of the voter.

Heck in the case of Biden, I think they specifically chose him BECAUSE of his advanced age and cognitive impairments.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Clearly the age limit was waived by the voters then.
> 
> You're clearly ageist. You really should try to understand why you're allowing yourself to discriminate in this manner, unless you really have no interest in being objective.
> 
> It's intellectually lazy to just blame age.


So if a 70 year old with shaky hands came in to operate on your heart you wouldn't be concerned?

It's just a fact of life that our abilities change with age. There should be checks and balances if people aren't being honest with their abilities

We have lots of lower age limits for a reason and we used to trust people so step down at the upper limits


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> So if a 70 year old with shaky hands came in to operate on your heart you wouldn't be concerned?


Yes, I'd be concerned
But I'd also be concerned if a 60,50,40,30,20 yr old with shaky hands came to operate on my heart.
It's the shaky hands, not the age that concerns me.

It's interesting, I had a consult with a specialist, he was quite old.
He literally handed me off to his replacement as he was retiring in a few months.
The age aspect was mostly irrelevant, the knowledge and experience was VERY valuable.




> It's just a fact of life that our abilities change with age. There should be checks and balances if people aren't being honest with their abilities


Yes, I completely agree.
We should assess the competence of people to perform certain tasks.
That's why we have a whole series of licensing and stuff, and we should assess abilities on a regular basis.

But you're not talking about assessing competence, you're asking for an age limit.



> We have lots of lower age limits for a reason and we used to trust people so step down at the upper limits


Yes, the reason is laziness and age discrimination is still widely accepted by many people.
That is problematic.

I know people in their 60's who are in better shape physically and mentally than people in their 30's, even a few in their 70's and 80s.
I know a fitness instructor pushing 90.
I've known teenagers more mature than adults. Heck I know pre-teens more mature than adults.

Age discrimination is a particularly unfair and bizzare form of discrimination.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Age discrimination is a particularly unfair and bizzare form of discrimination.


Then we should remove all lower age limits

Why should one have to wait to x age to drive a transport truck or get married? The arbitrary age limit is just to trigger assessments.

The outliers can be waived but to think age doesn't have an impact on the majority in silly


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Then we should remove all lower age limits
> 
> Why should one have to wait to x age to drive a transport truck or get married? The arbitrary age limit is just to trigger assessments.
> 
> The outliers can be waived but to think age doesn't have an impact on the majority in silly


Why do you want to marry children?

I'd like to see more assessments in children, but we've decided for legal convenience that children don't have full legal responsibility and rights as their brains are not fully developed.
There is more work to try and figure out how to deal with mature minors.

Also there are mechanisms for minors to get waivers for many things where the competence is proven.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing.
You're arguing an age limit for the President, because you disagree with the voters choice, and want to disqualify him in some other way.
Even if they had an age limit, I'd suggest that 80 million people saying they feel he is competent should be enough to count as a waiver.


Also note, I don't think he's competent, and I've previously called out having him run for office is IMO elder abuse.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Not sure what posts #362 to 368 (thus far) has anything to do with Kevin OLeary and FTX? Shouldn't they belong to the MrMatt's favourite subject/thread of "Politics" elsewhere? Mods/admin?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Also there are mechanisms for minors to get waivers for many things where the competence is proven.
> 
> I'm not even sure what you're arguing.
> 
> Also note, I don't think he's competent, and I've previously called out having him run for office is IMO elder abuse.


I also said there should be a mechanism for waiver, as there are for most such things

If 80% of 70 year old have cognitive decline that makes them unsuitable to command the largest militaries in the world. Maybe we should check on that and make an assessment if they happen to be extraordinary for their age. Look at car insurance. They know damn well age is not just a number

Imagine all the wars we could avoid by not letting 70 year old men control massive militaries when they are on the brink of death


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> I also said there should be a mechanism for waiver, as there are for most such things


And I said that such a waiver was granted by the relevant authority.



> If 80% of 70 year old have cognitive decline that makes them unsuitable to command the largest militaries in the world. Maybe we should check on that and make an assessment if they happen to be extraordinary for their age. Look at car insurance. They know damn well age is not just a number


The relevant authority did so, and determined they were competent.



> Imagine all the wars we could avoid by not letting 70 year old men control massive militaries when they are on the brink of death


What proportion of wars were initiated by men in their 70's?
I actually can't think of one, can you name one?

FYI, Ukraine war wasn't initiated by a 70 yr old man, just in case you were wondering.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Since O'Leary was a spokesman for FTX and lobbyist, who endorsed FTX's business to government & financial firms, I think there's a good chance *O'Leary might be a conspirator of Bankman-Fried*, and could face criminal charges himself.
> 
> Or who knows, maybe O'Leary is already (quietly) cooperating with US prosecutors to save himself.
> 
> ...


As O'Leary alluded to, there were other high profile investors and fund managers who were involved.

One of them was Anthony Scaramucci, who people may remember served as Press Secretary for Trump for about a week before Trump fired him.

Another hedge fund manager said these guys are smart and they comb through a business with a fine tooth comb before they hand over their money.

They were not fooled by a young guy in short and flip flops with big hair.

They knew from the start it was all a mirage, but looked at the profits and thought they could get in and out and makes big dollars before it all came tumbling down.

They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and will come up with all kinds of excuses but never admit they were greedy.

Oh no......it is all about the technology, the idea of crypto, the change to the banking system and the collapse is the fault of Binance, or a lack of regulation.

The lack of regulation is particularly amusing since crypto was created to avoid the regulation that overseas the financial system and when Senators Elizabeth Warren, OAC, and others called for stiff regulation they were attacked by people like Kevin O'Leary and the crypto dudes.

Now......oh, everyone wants regulation. Sure they do. How about they start with disclosing their assets and submitting to a full audit right now.

Binance has been promising a full audit for years and still hasn't produced one. That exchange is just as bad or worse than FTX.

All these made up tokens used for collateral assets to borrow money are worthless and you don't need a PhD in economics to know that.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Another hedge fund manager said these guys are smart and they comb through the business with a fine tooth comb before they hand over their money.
> 
> They were not fooled by a young guy in short and flip flops with big hair. They knew from the start it was all a mirage, but looked at the profits and thought they could get in and out and makes big dollars before it all came tumbling down.
> 
> They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


Venture capital invest in things that don't exist yet. Therefore there is no business to comb through. Look up the definition and you learn something today

FTX did not exist and came out of nowhere with a lot of big names and VC/political connections behind it. Kevin O'Leary recently stated they expect about 80% of such business ventures to fail.

So either the unnamed "another hedge fund" didn't know what they were talking about or you are just making **** up as usual


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Maybe the money (OP'sM of course) and the extravagant invites to cocktails and lunches were too hard to resist.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> As O'Leary alluded to, there were other high profile investors and fund managers who got involved.
> 
> One of them was Anthony Scaramucci, who people may remember served as Press Secretary for Trump for about a week before Trump fired him.
> 
> ...


 ... maybe the money (OPM's of course) and the invites to the cocktails / extravagant lunches were too hard to resist for these hob-nobs piggies.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Now the Twinktoes twins are in big trouble, and that involves publicly traded stocks like Coinbase, Grayscale Trust, and any company or fund that holds bitcoins as asset collateral.....like MicroStrategy and ARKK. Who knows if pension funds hold crypto crap directly as assets or own shares in companies that do ?

The regulation comes too late to save a lot of financial harm to a lot of people. Forget regulation.....the criminals will find loopholes in it.

Governments should have banned crypto as a counterfeit currency years ago.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Now the Twinktoes twins are in big trouble, and that involves publicly traded stocks like Coinbase, Grayscale Trust, and any company or fund that holds bitcoins as asset collateral.....like MicroStrategy and ARKK. Who knows if *pension funds hold crypto crap directly as assets or own shares in companies that do ?*
> 
> The regulation comes too late to save a lot of financial harm to a lot of people. Forget regulation.....the criminals will find loopholes in it.
> 
> Governments should have banned crypto as a counterfeit currency years ago.


 ... what kind of pensions would be holding these crypto-craps? I heard the Teachers' Pension may but I hope CPP doesn't. Sounds more like "private" ones than public.

Here's a start to "revelations" of who the "customers" are:

FTX bankruptcy judge to hear media companies’ request to reveal customer names


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Originally O'Leary kept repeating that he lost his own money in FTX, but during an interview with a panel on CNBC he let it slip that he was paid $15 million dollars by FTX in cash and tokens and that is what he lost. The panel immediately picked up on it and drilled him about it. They said......so, you actually didn't lose your own money to which he said he had received the money in his account and then it vanished. Yea, so the money they were supposed to pay him vanished, but it sounds better for him to say he lost his own money.

What did O'Leary think getting paid $15 million was going to cost him ? His honesty, integrity. morals.....which he obviously didn't care much about.

There are reports that SBF offered Taylor Swift $100 million to be a spokesperson for FTX.

There is a Tik Tok video of SBF at work......cussing about a $500,000 transaction loss and then realizing he isn't even on the right program.

The guy doesn't know dick squat about finance and insiders say there was a lot of drug and alcohol use.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

One lender said SBF came to his office seeking a loan and SBF had his father with him. The lender declined the loan based on the interview.

It proves that SBFs parents were also involved to some extent, and the bankruptcy trustee said they are looking into their activities and connections to FTX and Alameda.

He did state they have documented at least one sizeable transaction of cash to SBFs parents so far, but have millions of transactions to sort through.

SBF kept his financials on Quickbooks.......for goodness sakes.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Like I mentioned before when you can "afford to lose" like that, it has to be OP'sM = Other People's Money. This is the basics of a CON-MAN's modus operandus.

How can SBF's parents NOT know at all when they wouldn't hesitate to be proud owners of multiple vacation properties that were bought NOT on their own salaries. 

One would think SBF's parents as "law professors" would know better than that. Apparently the higher up, the lower the IQ goes like SBF's father - plug his fingers in his ears technique. LMAO ...


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> Venture capital invest in things that don't exist yet. Therefore there is no business to comb through. Look up the definition and you learn something today
> 
> FTX did not exist and came out of nowhere with a lot of big names and VC/political connections behind it. Kevin O'Leary recently stated they expect about 80% of such business ventures to fail.
> 
> So either the unnamed "another hedge fund" didn't know what they were talking about or you are just making **** up as usual


Try applying for a company loan without a comprehensive business plan, replete with projected costs, revenues, markets, suppliers,and a big stack of other necessary data.

Kevin O'Leary asks more questions of people on Shark Tank who want to borrow $50,000 than he claims he did at FTX.

Of course he didn't ask anything at FTX. He wanted the $15 million fee to represent them and didn't care if FTX was crap.

He wasn't investing his own money in it........just telling everyone else to.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Try applying for a company loan without a comprehensive business plan, replete with projected costs, revenues, markets, suppliers,and a big stack of other necessary data.
> 
> Kevin O'Leary asks more questions of people on Shark Tank who want to borrow $50,000 than he claims he did at FTX.
> 
> ...


 ... sounds familiar. Pumpers, dumpers ... buy while you can and as fast as you can ... sadly happening on CMF too.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Try applying for a company loan without a comprehensive business plan, replete with projected costs, revenues, markets, suppliers,and a big stack of other necessary data.
> 
> Kevin O'Leary asks more questions of people on Shark Tank who want to borrow $50,000 than he claims he did at FTX.


So you still don't understand what venture capitalism is and didn't even spend 5 minutes reading. Once again you write about things you clearly don't understand

The entire point of venture capitalism saggy is that it's extremely risky venture that doesn't meet requirements for a typical business loan. A lot of internet companies were funded by venture capitalism and took decades to become profitable if at all

Stay in your lane and contribute things you know about (warehouses?) or at least do some reading. Stop adding low content please or at very least stop posting completely false information

There is first hand knowledge from experience, there is second hand knowledge from reading, and then there are morons writing with no source at all. CNBC does not count by the way


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto 🐳#crypto #sambankmanfried #cryptoexchange #dogofwallst #bitcoi... | TikTok


44.7K Likes, 1.3K Comments. TikTok video from dogofwallst (@dogofwallst): "Crypto 🐳#crypto #sambankmanfried #cryptoexchange #dogofwallst #bitcoin". original sound - dogofwallst.




vm.tiktok.com


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Please stop posting Chinese TikTok links here

The only thing worse than being brainwashed by CNBC is being brainwashed by TikTok

Go read a book for once saggy brains


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It looks like somebody is triggered by the news about the Winklehoes Bros ? 

How much are they gonna lose in their crypto crap businesses ?

And there it was...........gone.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> It looks like somebody is triggered by the news about the Winklehoes Bros ?
> 
> How much are they gonna lose in their crypto crap businesses ?
> 
> And there it was...........gone.


Not at all

I just hate to see stupid people spreading their stupidity. Someone has to call you out for what you are. Go learn something for once saggy man. You're never too old to learn

CNBC and TikTok are not helping you. If you want to be dumb ok but if you want to spread stupidity I will point it out


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

O'Leary testified that SBF couldn't even get a bank to deal with his company, let alone lend him venture capital.

The "dumb" ones are staring at a long time in prison and learning to sleep with one eye open.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> O'Leary testified that SBF couldn't even get a bank to deal with his company, let alone lend him venture capital.
> 
> The "dumb" ones are staring at a long time in prison and learning to sleep with one eye open.


Again you don't understand venture capital and confuse it with bank loans

You described venture capital investments above but then confused it with business loans. Venture capital typically provide seed funding and start-up funding before businesses exist. They are not business loans

5 minutes of google you would learn more than randomly spewing misinformation here



> *Obtaining venture capital is substantially different from raising debt or a loan. *Lenders have a legal right to interest on a loan and repayment of the capital irrespective of the success or failure of a business. Venture capital is invested in exchange for an equity stake in the business. The return of the venture capitalist as a shareholder depends on the growth and profitability of the business. This return is generally earned when the venture capitalist "exits" by selling its shareholdings when the business is sold to another owner.


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

m3s said:


> So if a 70 year old with shaky hands came in to operate on your heart you wouldn't be concerned?
> 
> It's just a fact of life that our abilities change with age. There should be checks and balances if people aren't being honest with their abilities
> 
> We have lots of lower age limits for a reason and we used to trust people so step down at the upper limits


I'm an avaition engineering guy (retired) and I'm not arguing here but your conversation on age reminded me that airline pilot retirement age may go from 65 to 67 in the USA. It has a tenuios link back to some of my previous posts about automation of aircraft and planes. 
Pilot Shortage Solution

As you were, carry on.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gothenburg83 said:


> I'm an avaition engineering guy (retired) and I'm not arguing here but your conversation on age reminded me that airline pilot retirement age may go from 65 to 67 in the USA. It has a tenuios link back to some of my previous posts about automation of aircraft and planes.
> Pilot Shortage Solution
> 
> As you were, carry on.


Personally I would rather not fly in a plane with a 70 year old pilot

If only Vladimir Putin was forced to go enjoy the rest of his life at 65 instead of terrorizing the world when he turned 69 and realized his d!ck doesn't work anymore and he will die soon. Soon Xi Jinping will realize his d!ck doesn't work and he needs to invade Taiwan before he also dies of old age

Let's nip boomer terrorists in the bud


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Personally I would rather not fly in a plane with a 70 year old pilot


That's funny, as I have actually flown with a pilot in his late 60's, and watched another, and they were two of the most competent and skillful fliers I've ever seen.

Secondly if you're referring to commercial air travel, they do annual medical checks.
I think the fact that even if someone meets all the requirements for the job, you'd still rejected them, just because of their age shows how ageist you are.

I have no concerns with flying with any Canadian licensed commercial pilot.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Secondly if you're referring to commercial air travel, they do annual medical checks.
> I think the fact that even if someone meets all the requirements for the job, you'd still rejected them, just because of their age shows how ageist you are.


No we've covered this at least 3 times already

They should be tested and tests should be based on age. As they are. Also as already covered there are age restrictions for many things - for good reason - as well as waivers - again for good reason.

Besides unless you're a qualified/current pilot evaluator you have no qualifications to determine if someone is the "most competent and skillful flyer you've ever seen" (as if a random person has seen that many)

There are many different pilot jobs and they have many different age related requirement. We aren't sending 65 year old fighter pilots to war or on difficult SAR/night missions. Aircrew medical are also very much related to age

Again if you disagree maybe you should tell the insurance company they are wrong


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Now that you mention it, I'm getting on in years.

Perhaps brain atrophy is the reason I am unable to see the value in crypto?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Now that you mention it, I'm getting on in years.
> 
> Perhaps brain atrophy is the reason I am unable to see the value in crypto?


Grandparents never saw the value in internet

They always banked in person and never had even an email address

And here you are online but will never need to use crypto in your lifetime


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

TomB16 said:


> Now that you mention it, I'm getting on in years.
> 
> Perhaps brain atrophy is the reason I am unable to see the value in crypto?


That could be it.

Or maybe a lifetime of existing in the real world has taught you the difference between fake things and real things.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Everyone in my family, of my Mom's generation, are on the Internet every day. They face time and look at medical information, primarily. lol!

My Mom is 82 and she is the youngest of her generation that is still alive.

I'm going to give Mom a call and see if she can set me straight on the value of crypto trading.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Everyone in my family, of my Mom's generation, are on the Internet every day. They face time and look at medical information, primarily. lol!
> 
> My Mom is 82 and she is the youngest of her generation that is still alive.
> 
> I'm going to give Mom a call and see if she can set me straight on the value of crypto trading.


They are now but a decade ago people didn't need the internet. My grandparents died without ever needing a computer, smartphone or email address

Physical banks still exist today. I visited one recently there was 1 other elder man and the teller knew him by name. Nobody goes to the physical bank unless they need to. This will be the same for old people today and crypto. You will be able to get by just fine without it and the teller will be happy to have a job

What you are missing is that things change and always will change, but not necessarily during your time


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> What you are missing is that things change and always will change, but not necessarily during your time


What you are missing is that crypto is a commodity with no intrinsic value. Trading crypto is a lossy redistribution of wealth. Gambling.

Gambling has been around since the beginning of time. Gambling was invented 10 minutes after pan handling.

We have had cards, dice, animal races, and an infinite list of games of chance since long before my grandparents were born. The stock market is a form of gambling for stock traders, as are the currency exchanges and any other short term trade activity. They all work the same: Everyone puts their money in a pot. The game happens. Then money is redistributed to the players in different quantities but not before a cut goes to the house.

Gambling has always brought out the worst in people: Compulsive behaviors, cheating, thuggery.

I invite you to consider the caliber of character at a charity fund raiser and compare that to the caliber of character that hangs out at the casino. There are good people at the casino but the ratio of good/bad is not the same at the casino as it is at the diabetes walkathon.

Please don't misunderstand my position. I have no interest at all in trying to talk you out of playing the crypto game or any other life choice. Go ahead. Put your money on black. Get a profane face tattoo. Stick the needle in your arm. I would fight for your right to make life choice as you wish.

Please have a nice evening, m3s. I need to go and chase some neighborhood children off my lawn.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> What you are missing is that crypto is a commodity with no intrinsic value. Trading crypto is a lossy redistribution of wealth. Gambling.


You are making statements about something you've never used. My grandparents thought the internet and many other things had no intrinsic value. Of course in hindsight it is obvious now it does

I remember when people said google had no intrinsic value. It wasn't even that long ago. It was probably even the same people on this same forum 🤡



TomB16 said:


> Please have a nice evening, m3s. I need to go and chase some neighborhood children off my lawn.


Well I hope it's warm and sunny in Brazil or wherever you are. Luckily your gamble on Saskatchewan real estate worked out and you didn't gamble it all on Ukrainian real estate or something

Lots of people think stocks are a gamble as well. They are always the people who have zero experience with stocks. I would call it speculation

The next generation won't be able to just buy real estate in Regina and retire to Mexico. Things change


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> Well I hope it's warm and sunny in Brazil or wherever you are. Luckily your gamble on Saskatchewan real estate worked out and you didn't gamble it all on Ukrainian real estate or something
> 
> Lots of people think stocks are a gamble as well. They are always the people who have zero experience with stocks. I would call it speculation
> 
> The next generation won't be able to just buy real estate in Regina and retire to Mexico. Things change


This is a fundamental misrepresentation. I suspect you realize that.

I've never flipped property. I buy a property, do any repairs necessary, and then lease it to a person or business. None of that involves luck.

Perhaps your inability to comprehend how a business works is preventing you from understanding the difference between an investment and a speculation?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> Lots of people think stocks are a gamble as well. They are always the people who have zero experience with stocks. I would call it speculation


Very good point and a lot of people have lost a lot of money in stocks.

In fact, I think most people think that "stocks" mean trading and speculation of individual securities. Most people who try it do badly at it.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

james4beach said:


> In fact, I think most people think that "stocks" mean trading and speculation of individual securities. Most people who try it do badly at it.


Anywhere there is a number changing randomly, there are people wagering on it. lol!

The idea of buying a company for the purpose of sharing in the wealth it generates over time should not be as esoteric as it is.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> This is a fundamental misrepresentation. I suspect you realize that.
> 
> I've never flipped property. I buy a property, do any repairs necessary, and then lease it to a person or business. None of that involves luck.
> 
> Perhaps your inability to comprehend how a business works is preventing you from understanding the difference between an investment and a speculation?


Ah yes you should explain your expertise and guaranteed returns to the Ukrainian RE investors then

There's always risk and skill involved. You saying anything about crypto is about as useful as me saying anything about Saskatchewan RE. Canadian RE is speculative asset at this point. It depends on things out of your control like BoC interest rates and the amount of Syrians or Ukrainians dreaming of living in Regina

Also according to the CRA what I do is a business with a lot of income. Could you please call them and tell them it's a hobby so it's taxed more favourably? Even better please tell them it's a religious cult so it's tax free?


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> Ah yes you should explain your expertise and guaranteed returns to the Ukrainian RE investors then


You are trying to pretend that if there are any unforsen factors involved, then it is completely random. This false equivalency is fundamentally dishonest.

I wish you well in whatever you do, m3s. Further exchanges with someone who does not embrace the truth are not a productive use of my time. The well wish is real.

Good evening.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> You are trying to pretend that if there are any unforsen factors involved, then it is completely random. This false equivalency is fundamentally dishonest.


That is the point

If you don't have any experience with something you think it is completely random like a casino

To be successful with RE, stocks or crypto you require some basic knowledge of it


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Another alternative is to collect a government pay cheque and a pension funded off the backs of tax payers.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Another alternative is to collect a government pay cheque and a pension funded off the backs of tax payers.


They are desperate to hire by the way

You get to see the world, use the same equipment as your grandfather, and a pension like your grandfather

And the hairstyles are even relaxed because not enough Canadians are interested


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> No we've covered this at least 3 times already
> 
> They should be tested and tests should be based on age. As they are. Also as already covered there are age restrictions for many things - for good reason - as well as waivers - again for good reason.


Again... no, that's ageist.
They should be tested, and tests should be based on ability to do the job, as they are.



> Besides unless you're a qualified/current pilot evaluator you have no qualifications to determine if someone is the "most competent and skillful flyer you've ever seen" (as if a random person has seen that many)


Which is why we have people to do that job.



> Again if you disagree maybe you should tell the insurance company they are wrong


There is a big difference between actuarial calculations, and how you treat an individual person.
Big difference.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Again... no, that's ageist.
> They should be tested, and tests should be based on ability to do the job, as they are.


I've maintained an aircrew medical for over 20 years. They are indeed based on age Matt. The Dr asks your birthdate every single time for a reason

Here's a source Canadian civil aviation so we don't have to cover it 5th and 6th times

*Figure 2 - Medical Examination Requirement Chart*

Licence or
Permit
TypeMedical CategoryAgeMedical ReportAudiogramAgeElectro-cardiogramAirline Transport
Senior Commercial
Commercial1Under 40Within twelve months of issue or revalidationAt first examination then at 55 years oldUnder 30At first examinationOver 40Within six months of issue or revalidation30-40At first examination and every two years thereafter(Validates all other categories)Over 40At first examination and every year thereafterNOTE: The holder of Medical Category 1 shall be considered fit for any permit or licence for its respective duration of validity unless otherwise specifiedFlight Navigator Flight Engineer
Air Traffic Controller2Under 40Within two years of issue or revalidationAt first examination then at 55 years oldUnder 30At first examinationOver 40Within twelve months of issue or revalidation30-40At first examination and every two years thereafterOver 40At first examination and every year thereafter* Student Pilot
Private Pilot
Gyroplane Pilot
Free Balloon Pilot3Under 40Within five years of issue or revalidation(If clinically indicated)Under 40N.A.Over 40Within two years of issue or revalidationOver 40At first examination and every four years thereafterUltra Light Instructor

Glider Instructor4Within five years of issue or revalidation(If clinically indicated)Under 40N.A.Over 40At first examination and every five years thereafterGlider Pilot
Ultra Light Pilot4Medical Declaration (Full MER only if clinically indicated)(If clinically indicated)N.A.Recreational Pilot
Student Pilot4Medical Declaration or Form 26-0297 counter- signed by a physician(If clinically indicated)Under 40N.A.40-50At first examinationOver 50At first examination and every four years thereafter


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> They are desperate to hire by the way
> 
> You get to see the world, use the same equipment as your grandfather, and a pension like your grandfather
> 
> And the hairstyles are even relaxed because not enough Canadians are interested


I'd feel too guilty living of tax payers .


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> I'd feel too guilty living of tax payers .


No you wouldn't. You seethe jealously so you probably already tried. You could always move to Ukraine if not

...

Binance BNB is looking very similar to FTX. Massive withdrawals have CZ sounding defensive


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603905955305254912
Dylan had very good macro awareness during the bubble. He called the central banks would be forced to raise rates to fight inflation and the economic pain that entails

(while mainstream was still convincing boomers everything was going to the moon and inflation was transitory)


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> No you wouldn't. You seethe jealously so you probably already tried. You could always move to Ukraine if not


Nah, I never tried and yeah, I would feel guilty. I made it on my own. But, it is annoying paying for it. lol

Obviously you are and I hit a nerve. Now it makes sense. That's how you saw the world and lived in all those countries. On someone else's dime, not on your own. haha

Not sure what the Ukraine has to do with it?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> On someone else's dime, not on your own. haha
> 
> Not sure what the Ukraine has to do with it?


Ah yes thank you for your generous tax donations

It could definitely be spent far more efficiently if only Canadians would vote for someone vaguely fiscally minded

We could always defund the police and military and let Russia or Taliban write the rules


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> Ah yes thank you for your generous tax donations
> 
> It could definitely be spent far more efficiently if only Canadians would vote for someone vaguely fiscally minded
> 
> We could always defund the police and military and let Russia or Taliban write the rules


And all this time you've been slagging the boomers while they paid for your education and paid your salary. You should be giving Sags & Beaver a big hug.

Now the Millennials are paying your salary and will have to pay for your pension. Yikes


----------



## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

Gator13 said:


> I'd feel too guilty living of tax payers .


I collect a govt pension and feel no guilt at all. I worked for my money and paid big time into my pension. And I danced for joy the day I retired.

Thanks for your contribution and hopefully you will keep supporting for me for another 2 or 3 decades.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

HappilyRetired said:


> I collect a govt pension and feel no guilt at all. I worked for my money and paid big time into my pension. And I danced for joy the day I retired.
> 
> Thanks for your contribution and hopefully you will keep supporting for me for another 2 or 3 decades.


You're welcome. "Happily Retired" is appropriate.  No animosity as it was part of the comp you signed up for and you are honest about it.

My contributions end in a year or so. The Millennials and Gen Z will have to pay going forward.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

HappilyRetired said:


> I collect a govt pension and feel no guilt at all. I worked for my money and paid big time into my pension.


Out of curiosity, how much did you big time pay into your pension? Is 10% to 12% of your salary in the ball park?


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> What you are missing is that crypto is a commodity with no intrinsic value. Trading crypto is a lossy redistribution of wealth. Gambling.


What you're missing is that crypto isn't a commodity with no intrinsic value anymore than corporate stock is.

Some crypto is worthless with no value, some crypto actually does useful things.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Out of curiosity, how much did you pay into your pension? Is 10% to 12% of your salary in the ball park?


About that in my case. It increases over time and takes most of the RRSP contribution room.

I don't disagree it's an extremely good deal if you can put up with government inefficiencies long enough

I would have done better with a bigger RRSP but don't have to worry about drawdown either

...

This ol gal is extremely intelligent despite the general awareness of her peers

Silvergate bank wired USDs directly to Alameda research when FTX customers deposited USD = wire fraud


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603092980558172161


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> They should be tested and tests *should *be based on age. As they are.





MrMatt said:


> Again... *no, that's ageist.*
> They should be tested, and* tests should be based on ability to do the job*, as they are.





m3s said:


> I've maintained an aircrew medical for over 20 years. They are indeed based on age Matt. The Dr asks your birthdate every single time for a reason


I've added emphasis for clarity.

The way things are, and they way they *SHOULD *be are different.

They should have a performance based criteria, and that should be met.
Age isn't a factor in ones ability to do the job, and should not be a factor, only the required performance characteristics.

If someone can do the job, age *should* be irrelevant.

Using age, when there is no objective reason to do so, is age based discrimination, and it's wrong.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> What you're missing is that crypto isn't a commodity with no intrinsic value anymore than corporate stock is.


You don't think corporations have intrinsic value?

OK, let me clarify. I mean corporations other than FTX.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> About that in my case. It increases over time and takes most of the RRSP contribution room.
> 
> I don't disagree it's an extremely good deal if you can put up with government inefficiencies long enough
> 
> I would have done better with a bigger RRSP but don't have to worry about drawdown either


Takes most of your RRSP room? You mean you get to contribute to a RRSP on top of it? Wow.

Everyone deals with government inefficiencies. You don't have to work for them to experience that joy. lol

Very, very, very few people will do better with a RRSP. 

Unfortunately, younger generations are saddled with paying the price.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> You don't think corporations have intrinsic value?
> 
> OK, let me clarify. I mean corporations other than FTX.


People told me Google had no value. They didn't understand its value because we'd never seen it before

Crypto assets can derive value in many different ways - some that we are familiar with and many that we are not. There exist tokenized RE in some countries - not much different from trading a REIT except p2p on a blockchain with faster settlement and self custody

Blockchains have limited space per block and the fee is paid in a token. Therefore the higher the demand to use a blockchain puts value on the token required to use the blockchain. Proof of stake replaces mining energy/hardware with stake of the same token which makes it similar to earning rent/yield (99% more energy efficient but also not as secure imo)

These blockchains are running anything from new telecommunications networks (worldmobile) to supply chain tracking to finance (lending/trading/borrowing) to immutable timestamps and monkey jpgs. They all have different demands based on security/tech etc

Could be used for things like owning/trading digital assets in video games or social media. Already being used to bootstrap new artists instead of the legacy model where record labels make all the money. The threatened industries are quietly getting involved - like how beer companies bought the microbreweries

Digital identity will be a big thing in coming years. You will be able to control your own identity but will be required to show it to comply with regulations. Blockchain identity and voting is already being tested in universities. Governance and ID has a lot of value

The high security/high demand chains will have higher fees than say lower security/faster chains for less important data


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> Takes most of your RRSP room? You mean you get to contribute to a RRSP on top of it? Wow.
> 
> Everyone deals with government inefficiencies. You don't have to work for them to experience that joy. lol
> 
> ...


Contributions to pension use RRSP room

I have easily beaten pension returns with RRSP but I don't think most could. Pension also acts as a safer allocation. My pension contribution go up while benefits go down. So yes younger generation will pay more for less

Inflation is the real killer though. Income will not keep up


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

m3s said:


> Contributions to pension use RRSP room
> 
> I have easily beaten pension returns with RRSP but I don't think most could. Pension also acts as a safer allocation. My pension contribution go up while benefits go down. So yes younger generation will pay more for less
> 
> Inflation is the real killer though. Income will not keep up


I understand pension adjustment. I am surprised that your PA does not use all your room and only leave you with the token $600 continuation room.

I think you would agree that very, very few could beat a DB pension. DB pensions typically use a 7.5% annual return. Not to mention it is indexed, the pension includes health benefits, etc.

My point is that younger generations (non-public sector employees) are, and will be, saddled with paying for the very generous public service pensions with no hope of ever enjoying such a rich plan or anything remotely close. The burden on tax payers is already staggering.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The concept of placing everyone's private personal information and transactions on an insecure public blockchain is so laughable it isn't worthy of serious debate.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> The concept of placing everyone's private personal information and transactions on an insecure public blockchain is so laughable it isn't worthy of serious debate.


Canadian government already planned pilot project that was delayed from the pandemic. It's already budgeted and in collaboration with other countries

Digital transformation is being pushed a lot more now that the boomers are mostly retiring or half conscious. Solutions are being researched in universities and it's encrypted by design not public or insecure.

Again don't worry you can still bank in person like my grandparents. The rest of the world will adapt slowly as we do


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Gator13 said:


> I understand pension adjustment. I am surprised that your PA does not use all your room and only leave you with the token $600 continuation room.
> 
> I think you would agree that very, very few could beat a DB pension. DB pensions typically use a 7.5% annual return. Not to mention it is indexed, the pension includes health benefits, etc.
> 
> My point is that younger generations (non-public sector employees) are, and will be, saddled with paying for the very generous public service pensions with no hope of ever enjoying such a rich plan or anything remotely close. The burden on tax payers is already staggering.


I have done much better than typical pension returns but I agree that isn't very common. I would much rather have the flexibility of RRSP - pension requires certain number of years and also may disappear or be adjusted during my lifetime the way things are going.

Younger generations are definitely getting screwed in many ways. When cost of living multiplies but income does not it will only get worse for them. Pensions are being watered down and public services are also not funded. Enjoy buying RE from the rich boomers.

Canadian population is only becoming more addicted to government handouts as we have less kids and more immigrants. Unfortunately Canadians are not going to vote for fiscal responsibility so accept it or more to another country.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> What you're missing is that crypto isn't a commodity with no intrinsic value anymore than corporate stock is.
> 
> Some crypto is worthless with no value, some crypto actually does useful things.





TomB16 said:


> You don't think corporations have intrinsic value?
> 
> OK, let me clarify. I mean corporations other than FTX.


I did clarify in my post.

Some crypto is worthless, some DOES have value.
Just like some stocks are worthless and some have value.

The anti-crypto people seem to misunderstand what it actually is.

The pro-crypto-investment people seem unable to provide a logical valuation.

I think crypto is a cool technology, that CAN do things of value, therefore some implementations have value. 

Though I think most crypto investors are like amateur stock investors trying to do technical analysis.


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

Beaver101 said:


> ... how is purchasing a Dump DTC a guarantee to the sweepstakes when under the question of "Is my sweepstakes entry tied to my Digital Trading Card?" when the answer is,
> 
> ... so this is contrary to the earlier statement that purchasing 45 DTC will "guarantee" you the gala, cocktail, golf round, blah blah blah which is outright fraud right at the beginning. Imagine buying 45 DTCs - all of them are randomly generated - Did you see a Joker card or Wonder Woman there? [I didn't bother to check.] And then your sweepstakes entryis also randomly sent. Imagine buy 45 DTC, get 30 Jokers and 15 Wonder Woman ... and then "beep, zero sweepstake entry 44 times" and then you get REALLY lucky with the last round of 1 sweepstakes entry. HOLY SH1T.
> 
> ... this con should have looonggg been in jail.


Story of my life - I poke fun at someting and I am left red faced and feeling rather foolish.
The nft thing was a success and are selling for profits in the marketplace of insanity. 









Donald Trump's NFT Collection Sells Out, Raising $4.45M


Trump's "major announcement" of an NFT collection featuring himself was widely derided. But all 45,000 pieces sold in 12 hours.




www.cnet.com


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Of course it is a "success" when you have either 1. suckers born every minute, and/or 2. hype. Once that novelty wears off, see how much more successful the next round will be.  It works like the same implosion of FTX and the likes ... everything is a "dream" (polite term here).

Never mind what the eventual zero-value of those NFTs will be for the last holders will be - do you think they'll get "a chance" to meet the Dump that they so admire? There's nothing to say about "transfers (aka flipping)" of a sweepstakes entry (if getting one) anywhere.

Btw, even members of the Republic party said this whole NFT sales by the Dump was done in "bad taste" (putting it mildly).


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> The anti-crypto people seem to misunderstand what it actually is.


That is possible but it is far more possible that pro-crypto people misunderstand what crypto is.

You and m3s don't understand speculation versus investment. I have no interest in attempting to change your point of view but perhaps some reader, some day, will benefit from a quick description that differentiates the two.



Hypothetical situation:

Monday morning, you install SuperCoin2000 on your phone from the play store. You configure it to make 1 trade per minute and you give it your entire net worth of $10,000. Wednesday morning, you post on CanadianMoneyForum that you have turned your $10K into 15 billion dollars in two days. Wednesday afternoon, the app stops because you only have $50 in the account which is below the threshold for trading crypto.

OK... you take your $50 net worth and walk through the neighborhood.

Scenario 1: You walk past an alley and see 4 teenage boys, crouched down. Walking closer, you can see they are playing craps. You throw your $50 on the ground and roll the dice. In this scenario, you either end up with $250 or $0. The good news is, you learn your fate in the next couple of minutes.

This scenario is speculation. Gambling. No money is created. You are voluntarily redistributing your money among 4 other people, each of you hoping to get all the money.


Scenario 2: You walk old man Smith's house and notice he has a brand new lawn mower. After a brief chat, you learn his old mower is still working but he got a new one to impress Lady Gertrude two doors down by showing off his pimp Flymo and a perfectly coifed fescue. You offer Mr. Smith 50 dollars for his old mower. Mr. Smith accepts.

Walking home with the mower, you stop at each house that has tall grass and offer to cut it for $10. You have two hours per day to devote to a business. It takes 20 minutes to cut a lawn. One hour is spent walking around, looking for customers. The other hour is spent mowing three lawns.

Now you have $30 per day of gross income. It also costs you $1 per day for fuel to operate the Turfmaster Deluxe. This $29 per day of net income. After the second day, you have earned $58. The mower also has a value of approximately $50 but this cannot be known until the tool is sold.

Let's say you work 4 days per week for 3 months. Your earnings are $13,920.

You decide to sell the mower in the fall. The fall is a depressed market for mowers so you can only get $30 from your initial $50 outlay. This makes a 40% capital loss. This loss is comprised of depreciation and seasonal tool price fluctuations.


The point:

In scenario 1, where did the $250 come from? 50 was yours. The other 200 came from the detox center escapees you won the money from. No money was generated. $250 was on the ground, one person took it. It was a redistribution of wealth.

In scenario 2, where did the $13,920 come from? This is new money from operating your Crypto Lawn GRQ business. People need their lawn cut. You provided a service and generated income.

In scenario 2, you chose to sell the mower at a loss but you could have kept the mower over the winter and perhaps gotten $55 for it in the spring. If you had done that, it would have been speculation.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

This is why a few of us (probably all older people like me) get frustrated with companies that expand with 100% IPO coverage. That is crap. They are trying to get big for the sake of being big. It is a very common mistake and disrespects the owners of the company.

If a business is worth $10B wants to buy another business worth 1B, it will be worth 11B. If the company sells $1B of newly created shares to pay for the acquisition, they have added $0 value to existing shareholders.

This happens all the time. It's something I look for. When I see it, I cut this management team from my portfolio as I do not want them having any control over my nest egg.

Important distinction:

The business is supposed to buy some or all of the expansion. That is the whole point. The company is supposed to be generating income and growing itself. If the company IPOs 800M worth of new issue to cover a 1B acquisition, that is OK because the business is using funds from operations to expand. This is what an investor looks for.

As an investor (not a speculator), I gain wealth by a business generating income. That income is either used to expand the business, in which case my equity valuation should go up, or distribute cash directly to the owners. Combined, these gains need to represent a reasonable return.

The gains I look for are not market gains. The market cap is something that is only loosely connected to the real value gains of the company. I am looking for value from work done by the people of the company.

If you look at a business which is paying a 1.5% distribution and gains 2% per year in intrinsic value, that is a bad business. 3.5% return is not OK. What happens when the market collapses, sales go down, one time costs occur? 3.5% is not enough to cover the risks.

The point is, an investment is about watching all of these factors. I make money from other people's work. I look for honest people who work hard and I need a reasonable return or I do not invest, regardless of what the market might do with the capitalization of the company. I'm looking for real value, not the chance to make a quick buck.


Don't forget to tip the dealer and your waitress.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto is based on the "greater fool" theory, which Trump exploited to sell 45,000 worthless JPEG images for $99 in real money.

I have the same image saved. All you have to do is right click on the image and save.

People paid $99 for a link to a JPEG image on a computer server located somewhere in the world that can vanish in nano second with a mouse click.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> That is possible but it is far more possible that pro-crypto people misunderstand what crypto is.
> 
> You and m3s don't understand speculation versus investment. I have no interest in attempting to change your point of view but perhaps some reader, some day, will benefit from a quick description that differentiates the two.


I'm not going to read that wall of text

I've been on this forum since 2010 (you since 2014) and learned what speculation is long ago. With the benefit of this information highway I've achieved the same financial freedom as you except at a much younger age

Again you won't understand new technology anymore than my grandparents understood the internet that they never interacted with. At least my grandparents didn't lecture the choir about it


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> This is why a few of us (probably all older people like me) get frustrated with companies that expand with 100% IPO coverage. That is crap. They are trying to get big for the sake of being big. It is a very common mistake and disrespects the owners of the company.


The ICO boom was 2017 in crypto. People would just buy any new coin and it would pump for a short time. Obviously that all collapsed

The recent cycle was fueled by VC funding and all their manipulation tricks. They paid influencers/media to discredit the technologies that didn't pre-sale all the tokens to them and instead are building technology slowly. They pumped/dumped their own BS tokens that aren't sustainable

Stocks are all very different. You are basically that person who never learned anything about stocks lecturing people who do that they are all pump/dump scams. All markets have the same greed/fear market psychology and professionals behind it manipulating for their benefit.

The really smart money is getting in quietly now. JP Morgan recently used DeFi for the first time.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Famous people and big banks have a lot of influence on markets

There's been so many examples over the past years where we see big banks publicly saying the opposite of what actions we can see them doing

They know not to endorse something while they are buying. When they start endorsing it they are selling


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1603762966553411584


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Gothenburg83 said:


> Story of my life - I poke fun at someting and I am left red faced and feeling rather foolish.
> The nft thing was a success and are selling for profits in the marketplace of insanity.
> 
> 
> ...


How do we know they actually sold the NFTs and aren't just saying they did to save embarrassment ? Maybe the pillow guy bought them all.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> The really smart money is getting in quietly now. JP Morgan recently used DeFi for the first time.


Jamie Dimon Says Cryptocurrencies Are Like 'Pet Rocks' (businessinsider.com)


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Jamie Dimon Says Cryptocurrencies Are Like 'Pet Rocks' (businessinsider.com)


Yes see my point immediately above

JP Morgan is buying crypto sags. This is confirmed. He is not going to endorse it while they are researching, testing/learning DeFi and acquiring assets. They are smart

This stuff is 3D chess and you are watching checkers for dummies on CNBC (you don't even play yourself)


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> How do we know they actually sold the NFTs and aren't just saying they did to save embarrassment ? Maybe the pillow guy bought them all.


It's very easy to investigate that on chain

I wouldn't buy an NFT on polygon so I'm not following it. Polygon is a L2 of ethereum with poor security (the admins have keys) Like I said Melania already sold NFTs and people easily traced wash trades. Maybe they learned not to do that again we'll see

All transactions are public so people can investigate. It's pretty easy to spot (similar to looking at online user accounts to see if it's a bot or real user)


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

sags said:


> How do we know they actually sold the NFTs and aren't just saying they did to save embarrassment ? Maybe the pillow guy bought them all.


Maybe it was me after a tequila bender and I'm simply to mortified to admit that I'm the one - okay me the pillow guy.He doesn't even return my calls to do a few swaps.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Trump NFTs are up 8x in the first day

There's 45000 of them which is a huge supply and 10% royalties which is much higher than usual 10k supply and 5% royalties

Only 6% listed though which is really low.


----------



## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

m3s said:


> Trump NFTs are up 8x in the first day
> 
> There's 45000 of them which is a huge supply and 10% royalties which is much higher than usual 10k supply and 5% royalties
> 
> ...


bone spurs


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is reported that SBF will surrender himself for extradition to the US on Monday.

Maybe staying at the Bahamian prison convinced him he should leave for the US. I read conditions in that prison are far worse than bad.

Sam Bankman-Fried will now surrender himself for extradition before Bahamian court Monday: Source (cnbc.com)


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump has released the meme Kraken.

He should have known people would have a field day with his idiotic nfts idea.

This one is mild compared to what is posted on social media platforms.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604302264042225664


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Gothenburg83 said:


> bone spurs


 ... you have to add his cries for "dadda, I got bone spurs and can't join the army!!!!" And he portrays himself as a John Wayne character? 

I'm surprised the Fox, Batjac production companies along with Marvel, etc. haven't sued him (yet) for using the likeness of their characters without permission in his con-business.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> The anti-crypto people seem to misunderstand what it actually is.
> The pro-crypto-investment people seem unable to provide a logical valuation.
> 
> I think crypto is a cool technology, that CAN do things of value, therefore some implementations have value.
> ...





TomB16 said:


> That is possible but it is far more possible that pro-crypto people misunderstand what crypto is.


I'm sure there are.



> You and m3s don't understand speculation versus investment. I have no interest in attempting to change your point of view but perhaps some reader, some day, will benefit from a quick description that differentiates the two.


How so, I think crypto is an interesting technology, and I don't see a logical valuation case, and definately not one for the sky high valuations we see today.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> How so, I think crypto is an interesting technology, and I don't see a logical valuation case, and definately not one for the sky high valuations we see today.


What is wrong with the current valuation?

It's a leaky vessel so as long as there is more money flowing in than flowing out, in the amount of the overhead, the price can remain stable at any level. It can literally be $0 to infinity.

Crypto is an arbitrary representation of financial value.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> How so, I think crypto is an interesting technology, and* I don't see a logical valuation case,* and definately not one for the sky high valuations we see today.





TomB16 said:


> What is wrong with the current valuation?


Nothing is wrong with it.
I just haven't seen a justification for it.



> Crypto is an arbitrary representation of financial value.


That's a very limited viewpoint, it misses the actual interesting applications.
Which is my point.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite an example or two of interesting applications?


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> That is possible but it is far more possible that pro-crypto people misunderstand what crypto is.
> 
> You and m3s don't understand speculation versus investment. I have no interest in attempting to change your point of view but perhaps some reader, some day, will benefit from a quick description that differentiates the two.


You then list 2 Hypothetical situation:

Let take a crypto example/hypothetical.
You buy some crypto, you use it to run a distributed app system to facilitate some functionality.
The functionality would have cost $200 on a "conventional" server hosting system.
I would argue that the value of the crypto you purchased was about $200

This is just like many other commodities, and they are valued by their use case.
1. If you don't have a use case, I think the value is pretty much zero.
2. if you do have a use case, I think the value is whatever the value of that use is.

I think the problem is that crypto detractors don't see a use case beyond the ponzi scheme of "cryptocurrency", and value the whole technology accordingly.
I think you fall into this group, because you seem to think that it's just an arbitrary financial value, which is honestly a position I don't hold.

I think cryptocurrency has precisely zero inherent value. However the potential uses of the technology DO add value, exactly how nonzero that value is what's up for debate.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> Perhaps you would be so kind as to cite an example or two of interesting applications?


NFT tickets is one of the easiest to understand.

Imagine a digital ticket to an event like a concert that you can trade freely, can't be duplicated or forged, but can be fully validated by any interested party.

If you've ever gone to buy tickets in the secondary market the value of such a system should be pretty obvious.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> You then list 2 Hypothetical situation:
> 
> Let take a crypto example/hypothetical.
> You buy some crypto, you use it to run a distributed app system to facilitate some functionality.
> ...


You have just described how currency works.

The same thing could be done with a credit card or any sort of "points" system, like AirMiles. I can use 15 billion AirMiles points to buy a 3 piece pack of Wrigley's single mint gum so they have value, as do any of the shopping rewards cards.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> NFT tickets is one of the easiest to understand.
> 
> Imagine a digital ticket to an event like a concert that you can trade freely, can't be duplicated or forged, but can be fully validated by any interested party.
> 
> If you've ever gone to buy tickets in the secondary market the value of such a system should be pretty obvious.


OK, but that isn't currency. That is a digital key and not part of cryptocurrency we are discussing here.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> You have just described how currency works.
> 
> The same thing could be done with a credit card or any sort of "points" system, like AirMiles. I can use 15 billion AirMiles points to buy a 3 piece pack of Wrigley's single mint gum so they have value, as do any of the shopping rewards cards.


No, a currency is traded for a thing of value, in this example a service.
A currency does not itself provide the service.

For example, lets say you run a distributed app on the ethereum network. The eth isn't "traded" to run the service, the eth actually "runs" the app.

Currencies don't work this way.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> You have just described how currency works.
> 
> The same thing could be done with a credit card or any sort of "points" system, like AirMiles. I can use 15 billion AirMiles points to buy a 3 piece pack of Wrigley's single mint gum so they have value, as do any of the shopping rewards cards.


 ... don't forget the fine print that AirMiles have no "cash" value. It has only those instrinsic Wrigley's gums value "only" if Airmiles recognizes it or allow you to trade your Airmiles points for those "gums".


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> OK, but that isn't currency. That is a digital key and not part of cryptocurrency we are discussing here.


That's the point I've been trying to make, this is about crypto & blockchain technology, the whole "cryptocurrency" thing is IMO a silly red herring that people seem oddly obsessed with.
Back to my ticket example, it would cost a lot to make such a ticket tracking system, and it would be vulnerable to all sorts of problems.
It can easily be done on a blockchain, at which point you can make a case to value that crypto token.

It is no longer has an arbitrary valuation, it has a logical supported value, based on the amount of work it can do.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrMatt said:


> NFT tickets is one of the easiest to understand.
> 
> Imagine a digital ticket to an event like a concert that you can trade freely*, can't be duplicated or forged, *but can be fully validated by any interested party.
> 
> If you've ever gone to buy tickets in the secondary market the value of such a system should be pretty obvious.


 ... that's is SO laughable. 

You can ignore sags but he just right-clicked the image and boom! - duplicated the card which he stored in his drive to edit it later. I would put a dino head on top of his body ... and change his clothings later ... LMAO.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

BTC is already considered a commodity by the CFTC which regulates commodities. You can send USD over bitcoin lightning network for very low fees (at least if your country has approved an app that can connect to a bank like in the USA) Canada I'm afraid is far behind

ETH will also be by the same definition however SEC is arguing that it started out more like a security. They need to make new rules because according to the howey test Taylor Swift tickets are a security. What people don't understand is there are tokens that are native to the ethereum network that are very different from ETH itself

ADA should also be a commodity because it is required to use the Cardano network. Then there are 1000s of native assets on Cardano that could be anything from meme tokens, reward tokens, governance tokens, even tokens that are required use other networks such as AI, telecommunications 

It's basically impossible for old people to understand if they haven't actually used it. I've realized that not everyone is good at understanding things by theories alone and that capacity seems to decline with age. It would be impossible to explain the internet to your grandparents in the 90s


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... that's is SO laughable.
> 
> You can ignore sags but he just right-clicked the image and boom! - duplicated the card which he stored in his drive to edit it later. I would put a dino head on top of his body ... and change his clothings later ... LMAO.


The ticket ownership is verified on the distributed network. That's kinda the whole point

There's two distinct types of people. Some are more theoretical and others are more practical. One type has trouble understanding new theories and ideas before they become practical and they can see and use them

Those types thought the internet had no value before they used it. The same people probably don't even remember they thought so - but they did


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> It is no longer has an arbitrary valuation, it has a logical supported value, based on the amount of work it can do.


You have just described currency. It can be exchanged for goods and/or services. That's what currency is. We have had that since the dawn of civilization.

You condemn anti-crypto people as not understanding it and yet you clearly do not understand it.

I don't read anyone criticizing the technical underpinnings of a block chain. I don't even read anyone criticizing the energy resources required to keep a block chain stable.

The beef seems to be that people are exchanging government backed currency for numbers in a block chain and then trading them in an attempt to get rich quickly. This is merely the latest attempt by gamblers to gain money without doing work. This too, has been taking place since the beginning of civilization. I don't think anyone cares if the power company uses a block chain to distribute energy credits among net metering clients or if they use Salada tea coupons. Whatever makes it work. Trading is the juvenile spectacle of skull duggery in which people attempt to get something for nothing and invariably lose a lot.

I doubt many of us believe the crypto traders are making the money they claim. You are all losing money over time. No doubt, you have productive trades but you are occasionally injecting cash into your trading habits to maintain your account balances over time. Crypto attracts charlatains like moths to a flame. SBF is the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> The beef seems to be that people are exchanging government backed currency for numbers in a block chain and then trading them in an attempt to get rich quickly. This is merely the latest attempt by gamblers to gain money without doing work. This too, has been taking place since the beginning of civilization. I don't think anyone cares if the power company uses a block chain to distribute energy credits among net metering clients or if they use Salada tea coupons. Whatever makes it work. Trading is the juvenile spectacle of skull duggery in which people attempt to get something for nothing and invariably lose a lot.


How is that any different from speculating on RE in Saskatchewan so you can obtain financial freedom and go travel to Mexico, Brazil and Portugal while your RE generated income passively off poor young people who can't afford to buy basic shelter

The price of RE is speculation and entirely based on government decisions. If the government decided to help young people afford RE you would be completely screwed. Same if the government completely failed to protect your assets and got invaded like in Ukraine.

Price of RE was inflated just by the central banks keeping rates low. It was by no work of your own by your own definition. RE is not worth 10x more than it was a few decades ago without these policies


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> You have just described currency. It can be exchanged for goods and/or services. That's what currency is. We have had that since the dawn of civilization.


You're missing the point.
The crypto blockchain is actually providing the service.



> You condemn anti-crypto people as not understanding it and yet you clearly do not understand it.


No, I'm saying those who say it has no value as being wrong.
I hold that crypto can do something of value, it has value.

Those who say it's only a currency that can be traded for stuff are ignoring the other cases, like the ticket example.
You can't program a Canadian Dollar to "do something", that's the important difference.

If anything the Canadian Dollar is the arbitrary value, since it doesn't actually "do anything", it can only be traded.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> You're missing the point.
> The crypto blockchain is actually providing the service.


No, I am not. You have just defined cryptocurrency as being a currency.

Please stop playing the game where you type something and then claim your misguided point was exactly what you were trying to say.

Crypto can be used as currency. I share your point of view on that. We have no argument. Cryptocurrency has an identical purpose and use as fiat currency.

Also like fiat currency, crypto can be traded because there are moving numbers making it ideal for people with gambling addictions to mindlessly exchange all day because they are sure they know what the next random number will be, while the exchanges continue to scalp their cut bringing the odds of the trade to under 50% chance of success. The odds of being positive after 10 trades are essentially nil. I won't bother explaining statistics until you get a basic grip on what cryptocurrency is.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> Also like fiat currency, crypto can be traded because there are moving numbers making it ideal for people with gambling addictions to mindlessly exchange all day because they are sure they know what the next random number will be, while the exchanges continue to scalp their cut bringing the odds of the trade to under 50% chance of success. The odds of being positive after 10 trades are essentially nil. I won't bother explaining statistics until you get a basic grip on what cryptocurrency is.


I like providing liquidity to the exchanges with the assets I want to hold

This allows the gamblers to trade more efficiently with very low fees. I earn most of those fees based the on the amount of liquidity I provide and the volume of trades. A small portion of the fees go to the treasury to maintain the protocol. It is far more efficient than a brokerage and settles within minutes instead of days

Ever tried to move your stocks from one brokerage to another? Do you know how liquidity/volume impacts the price you get? If so you would understand why a global protocol is more efficient than 1000 brokerages with overhead and office buildings in every country who have to settle your trades for you days later (you have no self-custody)

It's impossible for some people to understand that things can change and new things can exist. It takes about 3 smart contracts to replace the entire financial industry and sky scrapers of overhead and now they are developing new things that don't/can't exist on COBOL based mainframes from the 70s

It takes a person with the ability to imagine new things. Or you could go look at what things are already operating on blockchain


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> The ticket ownership is verified on the distributed network. That's kinda the whole point
> 
> There's two distinct types of people. Some are more theoretical and others are more practical. One type has trouble understanding new theories and ideas before they become practical and they can see and use them
> 
> Those types thought the internet had no value before they used it. The same people probably don't even remember they thought so - but they did


 ... care to re-read your post before you mouth off about the part of some people who are more theoretical and some are more practical and mocking about one type having trouble understanding new theories and ideas? Basically you're talking about yourself because sure the ticket ownership is verified on the distributed network. But is the distributed network verified? Is it legit? If so, by whom? If not ... scheme and mouth some more "genius con".


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... care to re-read your post before you mouth off about the part of some people who are more theoretical and some are more practical and mocking about one type having trouble understanding new theories and ideas? Basically you're talking about yourself because sure the ticket ownership is verified on the distributed network. But is the distributed network verified? Is it legit? If so, by whom? If not ... scheme and mouth some more "genius con".


Yes everyone has different strengths

You are definitely not a theoretical intuitive type. That's ok we need all types. Everybody's special

A distributed network can be verified by anyone. That's the beauty and that's the point


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> No, I am not. You have just defined cryptocurrency as being a currency.
> 
> Please stop playing the game where you type something and then claim your misguided point was exactly what you were trying to say.
> 
> Crypto can be used as currency. I share your point of view on that. We have no argument. Cryptocurrency has an identical purpose and use as fiat currency.


yes, but a litre of gasoline can ALSO be used as a currency.
I'm not disputing that it CAN be used as a currency.

I'm simply pointing out that the value I see is in it's functional use. 
The trading aspect a secondary interest to me.

I see the value of a litre of gas as how far I can travel.
Or how much electricity I can run through a piece of copper.
I see the value of cryptocoin in how much work it can do for me.

For *ME* the currency aspect is less interesting than the functional use.
You seem focused on the dubious value as a currency, I share that opinion, which is why I don't focus on it, it's not very useful or interesting.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Yes everyone has different strengths
> 
> You are definitely not a theoretical intuitive type. That's ok we need all types. Everybody's special
> 
> A distributed network can be verified by anyone. That's the beauty and that's the point


 ... ye I admit I'm not a theoretical intuitive type that especially goes around scheming and attempting to con other people. I don't have that strength although I can see people (mind you're not the only one) who are "natural" at that. 

So instead of dancing around the point - who verifies the "distributed network" other than "anyone"? Because that basically says "entrust your money in the Messiah (or in the anyone or whoever you worship) and kiss it good-bye". And don't cry about it later , sucker.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> That's the point I've been trying to make, this is about crypto & blockchain technology, the whole "cryptocurrency" thing is IMO a silly red herring that people seem oddly obsessed with.
> Back to my ticket example, it would cost a lot to make such a ticket tracking system, and it would be vulnerable to all sorts of problems.
> It can easily be done on a blockchain, at which point you can make a case to value that crypto token.
> 
> It is no longer has an arbitrary valuation, it has a logical supported value, based on the amount of work it can do.


Except that to verify the ticket at the venue, the ticket collectors would have to wait for multiple confirmations on a decentralized blockchain that can take minutes to hours.

The venue would also have to pay a fee for the confirmations to support the people doing the work of confirmation.

That is not very useful when 60,000 or 300,000 people or more are lined up for a big sports event.

If the blockchain is centralized to speed it up.......then what is the point as that technology already exists.

Our son just bought couple of NBA tickets to a Raptors game. He bought them on a Facebook group and they were processed via Ticketmaster. 

They are now located on his IPhone to be scanned at the venue via the proprietary software they use to verify tickets.

Venue tickets as NFTs is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

The fact is the public aren't interested in NFTs or crypto because it is cumbersome and complicated to use and serves no useful function.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Someone will be along and say......but, but the internet.

Yea, the internet had hiccups but it didn't stagnate for 15 years like bitcoins have. After all this time there is still no end use for crypto that has worked well or had duration.

Everything tried has failed......from retailers adopting and then abandoning the technology, to a store of wealth like gold, to an alternative currency and defi applications.

The mammoth shipping firm Mersk hired programmers to develop their own blockchain for customers and then abandoned the project for security concerns.

Crypto relies on a couple of things for it's existence. It requires the legacy internet system to piggyback onto and fiat money that it can convert into.

Crypto is not a novel concept. There have been tokens in arcades for decades, and in online game apps for a long time.......like Robux tokens.

Slot machines in Las Vegas used tokens back in the 1950s., take cash and buy slot tokens and then convert them back into cash again.

Then they said.....this is stupid and expensive (making the tokens, cleaning the tokens, selling the tokens, buying the tokens, filling machines with tokens, buckets to hold the tokens, and we can just use cash from the start and eliminate the tokens.

Crypto pumpers weren't around for the arcade and slot tokens.......or the early days of the internet. They really have no clue and that is how they sound to me who were.

They propose to go back to the future.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Except that to verify the ticket at the venue, the ticket collectors would have to wait for multiple confirmations on a decentralized blockchain that can take minutes to hours.
> 
> The venue would also have to pay a fee for the confirmations to support the people doing the work of confirmation.
> 
> ...


You're making stuff up that you have no knowledge of

Confirmations are required after a transaction. If someone is holding a ticket the venue only has to verify someone holds the ticket. There are many ways that could be done.

Venue tickets are a huge problem. There are ticketmaster scalpers who get rich simply buying all the rickets are reselling them - now ticketmaster even legally scalps their own tickets

You basically make up problems about any solution you have no knowledge of, as you always do (sags reminds me of a saggy wet blanket - always bringing negativity to everything)

There are innovative people who do find new solutions to problems and there are negative saggy people who just work dead end jobs complaining about their poor luck and how the government doesn't hand out enough socialism



https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/competition-bureau-ticketmaster-tradedesk-probe-1.5000677


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Someone will be along and say......but, but the internet.
> 
> Yea, the internet had hiccups but it didn't stagnate for 15 years like bitcoins have.


The internet took longer than 15 years

You just didn't know about it


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> How is that any different from speculating on RE in Saskatchewan so you can obtain financial freedom and go travel to Mexico, Brazil and Portugal while your RE generated income passively off poor young people who can't afford to buy basic shelter


We've been over this and you weren't smart enough to understand before. I doubt that has changed. I will respond as a courtesy to people who might read your posts and think you have actual information to offer.

Trading crypto is no different than RE speculation. Both are gambling. *These things are entirely different than RE investing.*

RE was down about 8% in my town in 2019 and commercial properties were not moving at all (grossly over priced, IMO). Several people in my family consoled me on my imminent bankruptcy. That isn't a joke. When I looked at my operating accounts, I had the same amount of money coming in every month as I had in previous years, with the exception of the commercial property which is indexed to inflation so it took a little bump. What's more, the basket of property was still deep into capital gains on account of having held it for so many years.

This operating mode is called business. Long term holding an asset that generates cash flow is called an investment.

Adults buy an investment and patiently watch it operate and generate revenue for years. Children buy and sell things with the patience of a 6 year old girl.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Crypto..............back to the future !


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> You're making stuff up that you have no knowledge of
> 
> Confirmations are required after a transaction. If someone is holding a ticket the venue only has to verify someone holds the ticket. There are many ways that could be done.
> 
> ...


Nothing you posted there is remotely relevant.

Ticket scalpers will always scalp tickets regardless of who verifies them at the venue, because there is a big market for scalped tickets.

The venues don't have time to wait around for confirmations. The response must be instant to move the crowd into the venue. Crypto transactions can take days.

Maybe someday someone will come up with something that gives crypto some value, but that day hasn't arrived yet and likely never will.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

"Decentralized" means no security. It means a lack of privacy. It means..........people won't trust or use it.

What part of that don't "decentralize" pumpers understand ?

Every computer attached to a decentralized network is a security risk as an entry point.

The primary source of crypto attacks is an employee sitting in front of their terminal and clicking a phishing email or something that opens the door to the entire system.

Imagine trusting millions of computers located all over the world responsible for the security of your personal information.

Corporations spend billions of dollars every year on security and have a difficult enough time, but some people want to throw the doors wide open.

Sheesh.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> We've been over this and you weren't smart enough to understand before. I doubt that has changed. I will respond as a courtesy to people who might read your posts and think you have actual information to offer.
> 
> Trading crypto is no different than RE speculation. Both are gambling. *These things are entirely different than RE investing.*
> 
> ...


You can generate cash flow from holding crypto without trading it

You are basically the person who says trading stocks is gambling with no experience or concept of how stocks work. I have generated more income from ethereum than it cost to buy by validating and processing the network. The income comes from the fees people pay to use the network but I know you don't understand that concept

RE speculating is a market like anything else. The paper that says you own RE is backed by a government and protected by a military force. That paper means nothing to an invading force. Your RE is kept artificially scarce by a government who control development (we have lots of land in SK to develop more RE if we wanted)

The value of your RE is protected both physically and artificially by government policy and military. Otherwise you would have to protect it yourself like during the feudal system.

RE speculation is no different than any other speculation. How are the RE speculators in Ukraine doing?


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

sags said:


> Maybe someday someone will come up with a reason for crypto exist......but that day hasn't come yet and likely never will.


Oddly, I'm not against the idea of cryptocurrency. I see no fundamental reason to avoid using it. If a company chooses to use it, it's all good with me. If crypto dies and goes away, I also don't care.

My concern is that crypto is a magnet for charlatans, scoundrels, and theives. It is a lesson on what it must have been like to live in the old west. The system is built on too many nodes which are entirely scandalous.

Meanwhile, compulsive gamblers trade crypto like crazed lunatics pumping money into a one armed bandit hoping to get a payout that will pay for their evening meth rails. Let's be honest, if these people weren't trading crypto, they would be trading FX, trading commodities, or trying to pick the lock on the cigarette machine of their local bar. Crypto isn't the problem. The compulsive need to gamble on any fluctuating entity is the problem.

If crypto infrastructure can be transformed into something remotely honest, I would have little problem using crypto as a currency.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think it is dangerous when crypto seeps into the stock markets in companies that are publicly traded........such as Coinbase and Microstrategy.

I am astounded that pension funds like the Ontario Teachers Pension fund or the Quebec pension fund would invest one dime of their member's money into crypto.

That is a problem regulators need to deal with.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> My concern is that crypto is a magnet for charlatans, scoundrels, and theives. It is a lesson on what it must have been like to live in the old west. The system is built on too many nodes which are entirely scandalous.


It is a lot like the wild west. People thought cars were only for bank robbers at first

The internet was the same in the 90s. If you believed the news which only covers the scadalous parts you'd think the internet was all evil people and scams. This is the problem with relying on secondary information that wants to engage your emotions and not getting any first hand knowledge

You use the internet yourself today and probably realized yourself it's not all scams and evil


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

sags said:


> That is a problem regulators need to deal with.


I share your perspective and shock on how many traditional organizations were hit by the FTX scandal, however, what would you have regulators do? No speculation, perhaps?

Stupid people are stripped of their money. It isn't always right but trying to save people from themselves has never been a good idea that turned out well.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

A simple audit requirement would prevent a lot of problems.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> The internet was the same in the 90s.


The depiction of Internet history in this thread is comically wrong.

Everyone knew the Internet was going to change the world but few understood how profound it would be.

In the early 80s, the ability of FTP to exchange text files between a Dec, IBM, and personal computer was a revelation as profound as telling someone you could watch one channel while recording another. All data was in text files. IBM was using EBCDIC, DEC was with ASCII. The interoperability these companies sought to subvert at every turn became a reality and that was a game changer long before retail Internet was a thing and digital interconnects became consumed with all things Star Trek.

Star Trek hung in there for many years, before porn went where every man had gone before. Porn built the Internet. That is a fact. It is an amusing fact but none the less...


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> "Decentralized" means no security. It means a lack of privacy. It means..........people won't trust or use it.
> 
> What part of that don't "decentralize" pumpers understand ?
> 
> ...


If every computer attached to a decentralized network was a security risk that anyone could connect and control the network

This is not true and shows you don't understand the very basics. You'd need to control 51% of the network to form a consensus - you need 75% consensus to finalize an ethereum block. Therefore you only need to trust 25% of validators and they have an economic stake to be honest - that's why we earn fees to process the network

The fact that corporations spend billions of dollars every year on security is exactly why people will pay to use a decentralized network.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

sags said:


> A simple audit requirement would prevent a lot of problems.


Every pension has a legal audit requirement.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> The depiction of Internet history in this thread is comically wrong.
> 
> Everyone knew the Internet was going to change the world but few understood how profound it would be.


That's not true. It's just a bias people have in hindsight

I remember the exact same types of people who are the majority of people (the ones who are poor at theoretical thinking) were very critical of the internet for the exact same reasons. It was all scams and evil. The media called it a fad

Most people didn't see potential of the internet when they already had a telephone and television


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556689555251638272


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> This is not true and shows you don't understand the very basics.


You are embarrassing yourself. Sags just cited a fundamental tenet of digital security.

As I recall, Sags is an older man. Perhaps in his late 60s or early 70s? You were just schooled by someone who is old enough to be your grandfather on digital security.


----------



## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

m3s said:


> That's not true. It's just a bias people have in hindsight
> 
> I remember the exact same types of people who are the majority of people (the ones who are poor at theoretical thinking) were very critical of the internet for the exact same reasons. It was all scams and evil. The media called it a fad
> 
> Most people didn't see potential of the internet when they already had a telephone and television


I don't recall any media source ever calling the Internet a fad.

I recall computers, and later the Internet, being hyped as something parents had to buy for their children or they would be left behind in the propwash of rapidly changing technology.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> I don't recall any media source ever calling the Internet a fad.
> 
> I recall computers, and later the Internet, being hyped as something parents had to buy for their children or they would be left behind in the propwash of rapidly changing technology.


Your bias is showing. In hindsight we remember things very differently of course based on the outcome we know now. Our memory also fades with age of course


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

TomB16 said:


> You are embarrassing yourself. Sags just cited a fundamental tenet of digital security.
> 
> As I recall, Sags is an older man. Perhaps in his late 60s or early 70s? You were just schooled by someone who is old enough to be your grandfather on digital security.


Ok? sags worked in a GM warehouse and we have already confirmed many times has no knowledge of how computer security works

I actually run nodes in the networks I'm talking about and have worked on military networks that developed this technology in the first place (we would never want 1 node to make the entire network vulnerable)

In the 90s the internet required a lot more knowledge and skill to use. Eventually it becomes so developed that the underlying tech is completely transparent to the user


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> My concern is that crypto is a magnet for charlatans, scoundrels, and theives. It is a lesson on what it must have been like to live in the old west.


Yeah, so don't give money to them.



> The system is built on too many nodes which are entirely scandalous.


I'm not sure what you mean by this.



> If crypto infrastructure can be transformed into something remotely honest, I would have little problem using crypto as a currency.


Crypto infrastructure is typically fully disclosed and completely honest.
More honest than most systems in fact.

It's the surrounding actors that are in some cases problematic.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> I would have little problem using crypto as a currency.


I would have no problem using crypto as a currency if it was actually equivalent or superior to current systems in a way that matters to me.
It isn't, so I don't use it as a currency.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> If every computer attached to a decentralized network was a security risk that anyone could connect and control the network
> 
> This is not true and shows you don't understand the very basics. You'd need to control 51% of the network to form a consensus - you need 75% consensus to finalize an ethereum block. Therefore you only need to trust 25% of validators and they have an economic stake to be honest - that's why we earn fees to process the network
> 
> The fact that corporations spend billions of dollars every year on security is exactly why people will pay to use a decentralized network.


That is the theory, but it doesn't work that way in real life.

So while all these validators screw around, the people in the lines at the venue are waiting to get verified just hang out for a couple of days ?

The fees are another problem. The validators process the transactions with the highest fees first because because they want to make the most money from fees they can.

Offer a low fee and enjoy your long wait in the queue to be processed. This stuff is so stupid it isn't even worthy of debate.

Only morons believe the US will hand over their financial powers to a bunch of neckbeards lounging around in their pajamas all day collecting free money.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Central banks are exploring crypto and blockchain technology to see if any part of it is useful for a central bank cryptocurrency.

So far, they don't appear to have discovered anything that propels them forward at a faster pace.

If they find anything worthwhile, they will create their own currency and cut all the pretenders off at the knees.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> Ok? sags worked in a GM warehouse and we have already confirmed many times has no knowledge of how computer security works
> 
> I actually run nodes in the networks I'm talking about and have worked on military networks that developed this technology in the first place (we would never want 1 node to make the entire network vulnerable)
> 
> In the 90s the internet required a lot more knowledge and skill to use. Eventually it becomes so developed that the underlying tech is completely transparent to the user


In the late 1970s I used computer terminals on networks to follow manufactured parts processing in the assembly plant and the inventory system in the warehouse.

In production material control I "paid off" subassembly jobs by handing in computer punch cards for the front office to process as work completed.

Everyone I know was using personal computers in the 1980s. I doubt you were involved in any of it 45 years ago unless you were wearing diapers.

My first home computer was a Tandy desktop in the mid 1980s with no memory, floppy disks, a dot matrix printer, and later dial up internet when it was available.

By then you might have graduated to wearing short pants.

_In December 1983, an executive with Tandy Corporation, maker of TRS-80 computers, said about the new IBM PCjr: "I'm sure a lot of people will be coming out with PCjr look-alikes. The market is big. While preparing the Tandy 2000—the company's first MS-DOS computer—for release in November 1983, Tandy began designing the Tandy 1000, code named "August". Unlike the 2000 it would be PC compatible with the IBM PC, and support the PCjr graphics standard._

Tandy 1000 - Wikipedia


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> As part of my job I used computer terminals on networks to follow manufactured parts processing in the assembly plant and in the inventory system in the warehouse.
> 
> Everyone I know was using personal computers in the 1980s. I doubt you were involved in any of it 45 years ago unless you were wearing diapers.
> 
> ...


Did you graduate from highschool? Was highschool education required for this job?

How is it that the Mexicans and Chinese can replace this job so easily with cheap labour?

If you knew how computers worked why didn't you get a tech based job in Waterloo?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

GM applied for a blockchain patent a few years ago. They seem to be behind the other major automakers though

BMW, Ford, Renault, VW etc already use blockchain for supply chain management. This allows for more transparency in the source of materials

There's lots of fraud in supply chains. It's very easy to forge paperwork in the boomer system to hide child labour and other illegal activities



> Current implementations of blockchain in the Automotive Industry
> Four of the world’s biggest automakers have joined with other technologically advanced companies to integrate blockchain technology, within the comfort of your car. Ford, BMW, Renault and General Motors have expressed their commitment to explore blockchain technology by extending their support to the Mobility Open Blockchain Initiative (MOBI).
> 
> Ford has launched a blockchain pilot to ensure ethical sourcing of cobalt. By tracking the supply chain of cobalt on the blockchain, Ford hopes to ensure that companies are not using child-minded cobalt in lithium-ion batteries.
> ...





https://www.tu-auto.com/industry-voices-what-can-blockchain-do-for-the-automotive-industry/


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> Did you graduate from highschool? Was highschool education required for this job?
> 
> How is it that the Mexicans and Chinese can replace this job so easily with cheap labour?
> 
> If you knew how computers worked why didn't you get a tech based job in Waterloo?


I didn't want to work for a 50% decrease in income and benefits.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> I would have no problem using crypto as a currency if it was actually equivalent or superior to current systems in a way that matters to me.
> It isn't, so I don't use it as a currency.


Here's what lightning network looks like in the US - spending USD over and Bitcoin layer 2 using your own node if you want

In Canada we don't have new FinTech apps yet. We only have Interac via unencrypted email which is a 3rd party and your bank will not be held liable for any issue

Ideally it would be integrated with Apple pay, biometrics, and the secure hardware enclave of the device


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1604542189782155269


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> GM applied for a blockchain patent a few years ago. They seem to be behind the other major automakers though
> 
> BMW, Ford, Renault, VW etc already use blockchain for supply chain management. This allows for more transparency in the source of materials
> 
> ...


Your overuse of "boomer" is distracting, obnoxious and quite frankly juvenile. It really distracts from whatever you're actually trying to say.

Writing down things that happened isn't a "boomer system".
They did it long before boomers, and given the same task, pretty much everyone else would start there as well.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Here's what lightning network looks like in the US - spending USD over and Bitcoin layer 2 using your own node if you want
> 
> In Canada we don't have new FinTech apps yet. We only have Interac via unencrypted email which is a 3rd party and your bank will not be held liable for any issue
> 
> Ideally it would be integrated with Apple pay, biometrics, and the secure hardware enclave of the device


Yeah, I don't trust Apple.
They're the sketchy monopoly exploiting company Microsoft wanted to be in the 80's & 90's.

You might not remember, but they actually pulled garbage like crashing their programs if run with competitors products.





How MS played the incompatibility card against DR-DOS


Real bear-traps, and spurious errors




www.theregister.com





Or the whole "tie web browser to the OS" thing

Apple did one better, and simply banned competing products, and screens every app on their system.
Openly anti-competitive, but they get away with it.


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## TomB16 (Jun 8, 2014)

When can I expect the free crypto from Elon Musk? It was first mentioned some weeks ago. Is he still compiling a list of all Canadians?

I'm a little tight and could really use the dough.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

TomB16 said:


> When can I expect the free crypto from Elon Musk? It was first mentioned some weeks ago. Is he still compiling a list of all Canadians?
> 
> I'm a little tight and could really use the dough.


You can have all the free crypto you want, make a blockchain and there you go.

Now if anyone thinks it's worth something is up to them.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> You can have all the free crypto you want, make a blockchain and there you go.
> 
> Now if anyone thinks it's worth something is up to them.


Looks like Tom Finance is worth a few million fully diluted

Sounds like a Korean/Chinese/Indonesian copycat of things that already exist. Most use the top few because that's where the liquidity and volume is

Basically dot com bubble where there's million things that won't get traction






TOM - Multi-chain based DeFi and NFT platform


TOM - Multi-chain based DeFi and NFT platform




tom.finance


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Bitcoin is the chosen one.

Halvening happening.

POW rules and the rest are a POS.

Laser eyes….HODL…No keys no coin….honey badger.

Stack satoshis for Lambos !


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Laser eyes….HODL…No keys no coin….honey badger.
> 
> Stack satoshis for Lambos !


Shoulda kept the keys to the BTC you mined in 2010

Must keep you up at night eh. That's wife changing money


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> Bitcoin is the chosen one.
> 
> Halvening happening.
> 
> ...


 ... are you practicing millennial / genZ / alpha talk? Sounds alot like yada yada yada yadas to me.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... are you practicing millennial / genZ / alpha talk? Sounds alot like yada yada yada yadas to me.


Don't forget inflation is good for GICs


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Don't forget inflation is good for GICs


 ... you missed one word to complete the understanding of that but then it was too complicated for you.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

That is financial talk for crypto. They mention boomers, the internet, and the end of days a lot too.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> That is financial talk for crypto. They mention boomers, the internet, and the end of days a lot too.


Did CNBC teach you that inflation was good for GICs?

How is it you never learned basic financial terms even though you listen to them all day

And spend 10 years on a financial forum


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... you missed one word to complete the understanding of that but then it was too complicated for you.


He still doesn't understand the relationship between inflation, higher interest rates, and GICs.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> He still doesn't understand the relationship between inflation, higher interest rates, and GICs.


Do I need to quote you from the inflation thread again?

Did you learn what volume, liquidity and market cap is yet?

How about the wages cost for most businesses?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

FTX founder Bankman-Fried sent back to Bahamas jail (cnbc.com)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ His parents must have given him some advice upon visitation as "visitors". Not sure if they will remain as visitors though.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF is reported to be on his way to the US, after waiving his right to fight extradition.

His ex-girlfriend and CEO of Alameda Research hedge fund, owned by SBF plead guilty to 7 criminal charges and faces a sentence of 110 years in prison.

Co-founder of the FTX exchange also pled guilty to 5 criminal charges and is facing 50 years in prison.

They pair are also facing civil charges by the SEC. Both are cooperating with authorities.

The US attorney had a dire warning for anyone else found to be involved.

_Williams emphasized in his video statement that the pair were unlikely to be the last people targeted in the ongoing investigation.

“Let me reiterate a call that I made last week: If you participated in misconduct at FTX or Alameda, now is the time to get ahead of it,” he said. “We are moving quickly, and our patience is not eternal.”_

SBF’s Ex-Girlfriend and FTX Co-Founder Both Cooperating After Guilty Pleas (yahoo.com)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605745361842327552


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Wow, is SBF's ex-gf ever young looking .. like no more than 19. And with the possibility of 110 years in jail - growing up. Oh girl.


Re this statement from one of the arresting authorities:



> _Williams emphasized in his video statement that the pair were unlikely to be the last people targeted in the ongoing investigation._


_ ... _no doubt. 

So who does not go to jail for willfully taking the proceeds of a crime? Who taught that in law school? And which law school?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Wow, is SBF's ex-gf ever young looking .. like no more than 19. And with the possibility of 110 years in jail - growing up. Oh girl.


I see the peanut gallery is concerned about the important things

She's a Stanford grad so I doubt she's 19. Apparently she's 28

Good to see she plead guilty and came back to US instead of hiding out in some haven


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Had no idea she's 28 as don't care. But now you mentioned she's a Stanford Uni grad ... hmmmm ... interesting on a commonality.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF is currently in a New York courtroom at an arraignment and bail hearing.

Ellison and Wang agreed to pleading guilty in a plea deal with prosecutors to cooperate fully with them and would be released on $250,000 bail, surrender their passports and not leave the US.

It is up to the judge if he agrees with the plea deal, or they remain in custody. The main issue would be if SBF is a high flight risk.

CNBC is live at the NY courthouse and reporting in depth on the whole story and crypto in general.

Bankman-Fried execs likely to be freed on bail after FTX fraud pleas (cnbc.com)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Had no idea she's 28 as don't care. But now you mentioned she's a Stanford Uni grad ... hmmmm ... interesting on a commonality.


There are a lot of stories about what was going on in the SBF orbit......including a lot of drug use, which Ellison herself has posted about on social media.

It may explain why even well educated crypto bros like SBF, Ellison and others often appear and sound dumb, dopey, and disconnected from reality.

They remind me of the "flower children and hippies" back in the 1960s who matured as they got older and are boomers now.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> There are a lot of stories about what was going on in the SBF orbit......including a lot of drug use, which Ellison herself has posted about on social media.
> 
> *It may explain why even well educated crypto bros like SBF, Ellison and others often appear and sound dumb, dopey, and disconnected from reality.
> 
> They remind me of the "flower children and hippies" back in the 1960s who matured as they got older and are boomers now.*


 ... seriously and with postings (aka braggings) on social media wrt to that ... ZWOWIE!!!!

I don't follow social media (other than the age old "news") so was not aware of that. Well, then that explains where FTX is at now. 

But what amazes me is how young these so-called "sophisticated" scammers are. Next thing you know, age 18 and below can open "research" companies via their cellphones. And now watch m3s will blame that the crypto-fallout was all the boomers' backings (aka doings) ... well, he's right there with that point with Kevin OLeary though as I don't suppose KOLeary is a millennial or GenX even.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> But what amazes me is how young these so-called "sophisticated" scammers are. Next thing you know, age 18 and below can open "research" companies via their cellphones. And now watch m3s will blame that the crypto-fallout was all the boomers' backings (aka doings) ... well, he's right there with that point with Kevin OLeary though as I don't suppose KOLeary is a millennial or GenX even.


It's mostly market cycle conditions like everything - which is mostly driven by central bank exchange rates and macro environment

No use explaining to someone who is clearly only interested in the soap opera drama and superficial mainstream media clickbait. It gives you exactly what you want because that's what sells the metamucil ads for boomers

I've always said there should be better regulation of centralized companies. Here we had Gary Gensler meeting with FTX on friendly basis just because they donated to government


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

m3s said:


> Good to see she plead guilty and came back to US instead of hiding out in some haven


I expect she has 20m stashed in secret offshore corporations and will serve 6 months on a plea deal before moving to a villa in Nice.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> It's mostly market cycle conditions like everything - which is mostly driven by central bank exchange rates and macro environment
> 
> No use explaining to someone who is clearly only interested in the soap opera drama and superficial mainstream media clickbait. It gives you exactly what you want because that's what sells the metamucil ads for boomers
> 
> I've always said there should be better regulation of centralized companies. Here we had Gary Gensler meeting with FTX on friendly basis just because they donated to government


 .. only you would know best about those metamucil ads to comment on it and strangely enough, you love to correspond on CMF right after my posts. Isn't that clickbaiting too? LMAO ... I gather it is a whole lot easier for you with just not looking into the mirror each morning.

I give a rataxx crap about who Gary Gensler is ... and again, only you would "know" since you're "following this story" ... like a drama ... to see when you can get back into crypto-pushing.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

SEC chairman Gensler turned down all the lobbying for a crypto ETF and he has advocated strong regulations.

The SEC is pursuing civil charges against SBF and the others in concurrent court cases.

It is the "financially woke" conservatives like Kevin O'Leary. Ted Cruz, and Pierre Poilivere who kept pushing for crypto without regulations.

Since when did O'Leary or Poilivere advocate for more government regulations ?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> SEC chairman Gensler turned down all the lobbying for a crypto ETF and he has advocated strong regulations.


That just pushed people to use riskier things like FTX - which he was happy to meet with on friendly terms many times and has personal connections/affiliation from MIT with both SBF and Caroline's father

Canada has better spot BTC ETF that is regulated to hold actual BTC unlike FTX (which held 0 BTC assets its customers were paying for) The regulations that Gensler advocates for clearly benefit financial industry and not the investor. Their mandate is to protect investors not their lobbyist buddies.

US rather has things like GBTC and futures ETFs which is manipulative paper trading that benefits financial lobbyists. Just like buying paper gold in US is not backed by actual gold like Canadian ETFs


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Apparently if you steal billions and give millions to the government - you can bail yourself out of jail for a few million more

Reminds me of US banks getting "penalized" for less than they profited for what they were penalized for


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Caroline Ellison told a judge she's 'truly sorry' for defrauding FTX customers – and 'knew that it was wrong'

Can ex-boyf SBF say the same? Bet not, when he has law professors momma and dadda doing the coaching.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Congress hearing is a hot mess

The new CEO John Ray is a legacy finance expert but has no experience with crypto - seems to believe funds were lost in many different ways by incompetence and amateur mistakes. That could be or could also be anyone at FTX stashing some funds for when this blows over or they get out of jail. This is the problem having a bunch of gray hairs discussing things they don't have basic experience with who are focused on the mirage of tech they don't understand

The simple wire fraud and legacy system itself is the root problem. Why was Gary Gensler meeting with SBF giving him preferential treatment while a US bank was committing wire fraud, money laundering and comingling of customer funds. Of course no one is concerned with the legacy system fraud the money came from. FTX operated like legacy off shore finance on steroids and spent customer funds to market their own centralized crypto - just old fashion fraud

Meanwhile SBF was let out on $250M bail - except they let his parents give them an IOU instead


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

These investigations take time, but they have plenty of resources to ferret out everyone involved.

The US. government has a pretty good record of convicting people at this level of criminal activity.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

sags said:


> These investigations take time, but they have plenty of resources to ferret out everyone involved.
> 
> The US. government has a pretty good record of convicting people at this level of criminal activity.


People that donate heavily to the Democrats don't get jail time.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> These investigations take time, but they have plenty of resources to ferret out everyone involved.
> 
> The US. government has a pretty good record of convicting people at this level of criminal activity.


Subject to politics.

Epstein never made it to trial, and they never even looked for his killer.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> Subject to politics.
> 
> Epstein never made it to trial, and they never even looked for his killer.


And the list of his clients is still a secret.

Also, the same people that demand Trump's tax returns be made public won't demand the same for Biden or Pelosi.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Epstein's killer was found hanging in his cell.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Epstein's killer was found hanging in his cell.


It should be a crime to be this gullible


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

m3s said:


> It should be a crime to be this gullible


That's a law I would fully support.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ The irony ... LMAO.....


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There's another Canadian besides Kevin O'Leary who's involved in FTX. This one looks like he's actually taken some of the stolen client money.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

SBF pleads not guilty.


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

sags said:


> SBF pleads not guilty.


While his defence negotiates .....Later he'll PG for a lessor sentence.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The judge made a change in the bail conditions. It bans SBF from accessing FTX or Alameda Research funds. The change was due to some activity in the accounts last week..

_The amendment follows activity involving Alameda-linked wallets that took place last week. Just days after Bankman-Fried was released on bail, around $1.7 million worth of cryptocurrencies linked to Alameda was transferred to coin mixers—programs often used to obscure trading activity—according to Arkham Intelligence. _


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Retiredguy said:


> While his defence negotiates .....Later he'll PG for a lessor sentence.


 ... but he's adamant he's isn't "criminally" nor "liable". The suckers who invested with him were ... well, plain suckers.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

He's had access to the money all along? Lol.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> He's had access to the money all along? Lol.


 .. 1. who is the "he"? 2. if it was SBF himself and that money was "real" as in OPM's=Other People's Money, only way he ain't "liable" is to return it when asked, and 3. only the truth of the matter is that money aka OPM's has already been spent for ... himself, his parents, his buddies at lunch, and god knows what else. So not only is he liable but criminally so also including those "involved" with him. 

Already Alameda's CEO (his ex too) has pleaded "guilty" (and some) as well as FTX's CFO. Both are looking at 100+ EACH if not a good number of years in jail . But then that's okay as both have plenty of time to count those delusional money in the slammers given how young they are. lol.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

HappilyRetired said:


> He's had access to the money all along? Lol.


He should have used it to pay his bail.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A couple of people pledge collateral for his bail. His lawyers asked the court to keep their names secret so they aren't hassled and the judge agreed.

I wonder if those people came forward with the pledge so they could keep their names out of the news or he doesn't rat them out.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I thought it was his parents who collateralized(sic) their home to bail him out already?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

HappilyRetired said:


> And the list of his clients is still a secret.
> 
> Also, the same people that demand Trump's tax returns be made public won't demand the same for Biden or Pelosi.


Actually....Biden has released 22 years of his tax returns, including 2021.

The 2021 joint return was released on the filing date (April 15/22).

My understanding is that it is common for Presidents, post Nixon, to release their returns prior to their election and for each year they are in office. Trump was the exception.

The Vice President also released her tax return.

My understanding is that it is not common practice for members of the Senate and Congress to release their tax returns.









The President and Vice President release their 2021 tax returns | The White House


Today, the President and First Lady released their 2021 federal income tax return. With this release, the President has shared a total of 24 years of tax




www.whitehouse.gov


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ I thought it was his parents who collateralized(sic) their home to bail him out already?


They did.......but it wasn't nearly enough collateral for the $250,000,000 USD bail.

It most certainly is a couple of people with deep pockets and some motivation prompting them to step up.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If it is SBF cashing $648,000 out of his crypto wallets, it would be a violation of his bail conditions which have a $1,000 limit on financial transactions.

If he is screwing around violating his bail conditions, he will end up in custody. Judges get very grumpy when their bail condition orders are violated.

People violating bail conditions bring the justice system into ridicule which makes the judges look foolish, and they react accordingly.

Post bail release, SBF allegedly cashes out $684k, despite a limit on withdrawals (msn.com)


----------

