# Saving on a RRSP fees



## sleepingbeauty (Apr 3, 2009)

Hubby has an Self-Directed RRSP with TD for about 5K. He also has a self-directed LIRA with TD for about 25K. As well, he has a self-directed LIRA with B2B for 30K. The reason that he has accounts in different places is that he lends out money through his RRSP/LIRAs as mortgages. B2B does not allow him to lend to Quebec. So he switched some of his money over to TD. 

The problem is that we are paying a bunch in fees and it is inconvenient having cash building up in 3 different places. Makes lending out our cash difficult as it has to be lent in separate mortgages. 

I would like to put all the money into one place but the mortgages are all staggered.

The TD accounts mortgages come due in March. Hubby believes that they will not renew. 
The B2B account mortgage comes due in November. Hubby believes that they will want to keep paying the mortgage past the due date on a month to month basis.

Questions:

Can a RRSP be transferred into a LIRA?
Can a Self Directed Mortgage be transferred in kind?
Does TD have any programs to reduce TD Waterhouse fees on accounts?

We do not seem to pay fees on his B2B account, but we pay $225 on each of the TD accounts. The $225 eats all of the 5K RRSP's profits.

Thanks!


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

1. "RRSP fees" are a frequent misnomer on this forum. They are usually fees for a discount bokerage account, regarless of whether it is RRSP or not.

_Can a RRSP be transferred into a LIRA?_

Possibly, but I can't imagine why anyone would willingly do it, because LIRA has restrictions on withdrawals. Most people are trying to go the other way, and these LIRAs are small enough that part or all of them may be transerable, depending on the rules in your province.


_The reason that he has accounts in different places is that he lends out money through his RRSP/LIRAs as mortgages. B2B does not allow him to lend to Quebec. So he switched some of his money over to TD. _


Maybe he should transfer it back and stop lending to Quebec?


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## sleepingbeauty (Apr 3, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> 1. "RRSP fees" are a frequent misnomer on this forum. They are usually fees for a discount bokerage account, regarless of whether it is RRSP or not.


Good to know. So a brokerage account can only have one type of Registered vehicle in it. My hubby is getting fees on his RRSP and his LIRA, even though it is all for him alone?



OhGreatGuru said:


> _Can a RRSP be transferred into a LIRA?_
> 
> Possibly, but I can't imagine why anyone would willingly do it, because LIRA has restrictions on withdrawals. Most people are trying to go the other way, and these LIRAs are small enough that part or all of them may be transerable, depending on the rules in your province.


Because the RRSP gets dinged for $225 every year, and that eats up it's gains. If it was in the same account as the LIRA, I would only pay the fees once and that is worth the loss of flexibility. I have no interest in investing in something that has risk, and having my gains eaten up by the bank.



OhGreatGuru said:


> _The reason that he has accounts in different places is that he lends out money through his RRSP/LIRAs as mortgages. B2B does not allow him to lend to Quebec. So he switched some of his money over to TD. _
> 
> 
> Maybe he should transfer it back and stop lending to Quebec?


Lol, hmmm I guess I could save all my fees by putting the money into cash, but that kind of defeats my growth numbers. I would rather not restrict myself from Quebec.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

sleepingbeauty said:


> Can a RRSP be transferred into a LIRA?


No.

Are these mortgages worthwhile? The amounts involved are pretty small - I was under the impression that mortgages had extra legal fees?


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## sleepingbeauty (Apr 3, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> No.
> 
> Are these mortgages worthwhile? The amounts involved are pretty small - I was under the impression that mortgages had extra legal fees?


Yes the amounts are pretty small. We charge 12-15% interest, don't go above 85% LTV (In fact we generally like much lower than that). Occasionally we will go to the 85% LTV mark if we like the story. And the borrower pays all legal fees.

Connie


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

_Because the RRSP gets dinged for $225 every year, and that eats up it's gains. If it was in the same account as the LIRA, I would only pay the fees once and that is worth the loss of flexibility. I have no interest in investing in something that has risk, and having my gains eaten up by the bank._



I really don't understand where this $225 is coming from, when TD Waterhouse says their annual fee for RRSP accounts is $100. http://www.tdwaterhouse.ca/services/rafeatures.jsp

On top of that there would be trading fees for any transactions. Which is why it is uneconomical to open a discount brokerage account with only $5K. So go to the TD Bank(not TD Waterhouse) and open a no-fee RRSP, which can hold TD mutual funds, and ask them to transfer the RRSP from TD Waterhouse.

The same page says there is no annual administration fee for RRSPs or RRIFs with over $25K balance. I would think this would also apply to LIRAs. Another argument for combining the two LIRAs.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

_
OP: The reason that he has accounts in different places is that he lends out money through his RRSP/LIRAs as mortgages. B2B does not allow him to lend to Quebec. So he switched some of his money over to TD.

OGG:Maybe he should transfer it back and stop lending to Quebec?

OP: Lol, hmmm I guess I could save all my fees by putting the money into cash, but that kind of defeats my growth numbers. I would rather not restrict myself from Quebec._

So switch it the other way - move the B2B account to the TD account.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

sleepingbeauty said:


> Good to know. So a brokerage account can only have one type of Registered vehicle in it. My hubby is getting fees on his RRSP and his LIRA, even though it is all for him alone?
> 
> ...


???


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

sleepingbeauty said:


> Good to know. So a brokerage account can only have one type of Registered vehicle in it. My hubby is getting fees on his RRSP and his LIRA, even though it is all for him alone?


Essentially yes - you need separate accounts (they can be with the same brokerage of course) for RRSP, TFSA, and LIRAs. These must be tracked separately as separate accounts as they operate under separate pieces of legislation.

The two LIRAs likely have to stay separate, but they can be transferred to one brokerage. In many cases once you have a certain dollar value of assets for the household, the fee structure is much better.

I don't know TDW's fee structure, but I know I have 4 accounts and my wife has 3 accounts with RBC-DI, and although some of my accounts are small (TFSA and LIRA) I get much lower commissions in all of our accounts because we have over a 50k in assets with RBC-DI in total.

In any case you should call TDW and speak to them about the situation and your options. Ask them if the fee structure for each account changes if you bring a certain total $ amount to them - even if some of the accounts like the LIRA are small.

I'm sure if you look around you can consolidate all of these accounts with one broker and reduce or eliminate the fees. I think you have enough total assets there you should be able to get the fees to 0$.


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