# What Would a PQ Win Mean for the TSX?



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

From the 'I can't believe it, but here we go again' department, I am wondering what, if anything, a separtist win in the Quebec elections tomorrow would mean to the TSX both short and long term. Such a win would, once again, pose another in the seemingly never ending threat for a referendum to, in effect, split up the nation. Why do they have the power to make this decision while the rest of us do not? Also, why these people are not tried for treason is something that I have never understood but that is a topic for another forum. I am getting mighty tired of this problem coming back every few years. :frown::grumpy::disgust:

Also, would this be an argument for investing in unhedged funds as opposed to funds hedged to the Canadian dollar?

I would appreciate your thoughts.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Quebec actually separating from Canada is bullish for Canada in the short term. Although in 50 years, that might be different as global warming opens up a huge area for Quebec to mine.

It'll be ultra bearish for housing in Quebec though. In the short term, if it dip enough, I might consider going back to buy loft condo I've been looking at, since the argument for the long term is that French speaking people have no where else to move to. Once all the English speaking population moves out, we'll have know for sure what the bottom of housing is.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If Quebec separated it would be a tremendous boon for Canada, not so good for Quebec.

You bring up a good point. Separation is an issue that affects all Canadians. If there is another referendum every Canadian should have a vote. If that happens I'm betting Quebec votes to stay on the gravy train and Canada votes to throw them off.

It's totally a ploy aimed at sucking more money out of Canada while giving nothing in return.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

If, in the future, there is EVER another referendum to determine the future of a united Canada, ALL Canadians should have a vote and it should not be left to a minority of voters in one province!! I wonder what International Law would have to say on all of this. If a minority in one province can cause a breakup of the country, then something is wrong somewhere.

However, that is not to say, as mentioned previously, that, if there was a national referendum to decide whether Quebec can stay in confederation or gets booted out, I wouldn't bet the farm against the side coming out in favour of separating them from the rest of Canada wouldn't win!!!

They already had their referendum and they lost!! What do you do, keep holding referendums ad nauseum until one day you might perhaps win.

Dumb!!

By the way, if I reside anywhere in Quebec, CANADA, would I be free to fly the CANADIAN flag over my property or in my place of business because all that I see down there is the provincial flag everywhere that I look.  Do you see a similar situation anywhere in the UNITED States?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I think one could sell their XIU and/or XIC before the vote, then buy it back cheaper for a day or two thereafter. Anyone willing to bet a good portion of their Cdn allocation on that?


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

why does Quebec want to separate so bad? it'll actually be worse for them, their buying power will shrink like crazy and everything should get more expensive


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

If Quebec separates it wouldn't be as good for Ontario but it would be great for the west. Ontario would lose a large amount of seats that could go with them and the west would have more control over Canada. No longer could the east rip off the west without care. Of course BC will do its best to screw up by voting NDP which will be such a waste.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

If one half, (I hesitate to use the word 'partner'), in a marriage was constantly threatening to leave if their every whim was not catered to.....how long would it be before the other individual would echo Cromwell's exhortation to the Rump Parliament - _"Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"_


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## JimmyAAA (Mar 28, 2011)

Can we only answer the thread question please. If I wanted a political blog, I'd read one.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I wonder what would happen to companies like BCE that have half of their customers in Quebec, or companies operating off federal funding. If all infrastructure projects come to a halt that should send unemployment rates soaring.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

The PQ has been in power before without submitting a referendum; I think it's foolish to assume that a PQ win automatically translates to another referendum.

If the PQ wins they have pledged to test the waters for support for a referendum. If that test reveals that such a referendum is likely to pass, they'd submit the referendum. If it doesn't they won't.

However, stock markets don't function on logic.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

JimmyAAA said:


> Can we only answer the thread question please. If I wanted a political blog, I'd read one.


OK then, I'd speculate that Quebec separation would cause the TSX to immediately plunge, as domestic and international investors would yank their money out for fear of an overall Canadian political collapse, (politics cannot be avoided).

Further complications would emerge over quite justified concerns that a separate Quebec would renege on its share of the national debt, since the sentiment there, (contrary to the reality), is that Quebec is a net contributor rather than a taker.

Creditors might also take the position that they loaned money to 'Canada' not to 'The People's Socialist Republic of Quebec', and demand repayment from 'Canada'.

Quebec separation doesn't (immediately) bode well for the TSX.

But, as Brad notes, PQ election & separation are not necessarily synonymous.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

*vu de l'intérieure*

.

c'mon guys. The dollar might have a little frisson. We're not going to separate.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

JimmyAAA said:


> Can we only answer the thread question please. If I wanted a political blog, I'd read one.


LOL. 

I find it so humorous [to put it politely], how the ones with the least posts/contribution to the forum have the most complaints. :rolleyes2:

Le pays restera uni. :encouragement:


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

We await the results but, after that, I would like to restate the question as to whether this result would have anything to do with deciding whether to purchase the hedged or unhedged version of the same fund. Markets like political stability which goes hand in hand with economic stability. Also, would the election of a separatist government in Quebec have any immediate affect on the Canadian dollar?


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

The currency will likely plunge along with the TSX and bonds as foreign investors trip over themselves to pull money out of Canada


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

ddkay said:


> The currency will likely plunge along with the TSX and bonds as foreign investors trip over themselves to pull money out of Canada


Assuming that market behavior is determined more by fear and ignorance than data and analysis, I'd say this prediction is right on the money.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ddkay said:


> The currency will likely plunge along with the TSX and bonds as foreign investors trip over themselves to pull money out of Canada


??

trip over themselves to pull money out of canada ??

ya'll having a slow morning in the ROC ??

need a little sensationalism to heat the pot ??

they worry so much in toronto
belguy's probbly gone under his bed
but i thought ddkay was made of sterner stuff


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Sorry for the doomsday scenario


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Short Quebec muni debt


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## JimmyAAA (Mar 28, 2011)

Toronto.gal said:


> LOL.
> 
> I find it so humorous [to put it politely], how the ones with the least posts/contribution to the forum have the most complaints. :rolleyes2:
> 
> Le pays restera uni. :encouragement:


And if I had not put that post in - do you want to see where this post would have went. It would have no resemblance to an investing post whatsoever. And the mods would have had to step in for sure.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I've been lately holidaying in Quebec...I see no real separatist momentum here. From Montreal all the way to the tip of Gaspe (Gaspesie as I was corrected by a friendly Francophone) I saw more Canadian flags , a willingness to tolererate my high school French, and a real welcome to this ******* from Alberta.
I don't think La Belle Province will ever go anywhere regardless of unscrupulous politicians and media.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

In the short term, bond yields would rise and our currency would drop as foreign investors wait to see how things play themselves out.

In the long-term, I'm not sure what would happen as I don't know how separation would work. Can anyone remember the details of the 1995 referendum? I remember Quebec wanted a disproportionate amount of the Canadian military's assets, but of more importance to me what were Quebec's views on the following?

- what happens to the currency? Would we share the dollar and the bank of Canada long-term, or did Quebec intend to establish their own central bank?
- How was the debt to be divided between the 2 countries? On a per-capita basis?
- What effect would this have on Canadian shipping? The port of Montreal is one of the biggest ports in the world, and the Saint Lawrence waterway is a major part of the Canadian economy. I imagine Quebec did not want to share this waterway, rather charge Canadian shippers exorbitant fees for the use of the port and waterways.

Any discussion on the above points last time around?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I don't believe there is any chance of an actual separation of Quebec.
Not even Greece is that foolish (separating from Europe, in their case).

If Quebec separation does somehow come to pass, the effects are quite unpredictable and I suspect TSX stocks as well as the CAD will vacillate for several weeks/months until the precise details of the separation are ironed out.
I do not, however, see the CAD weakening as a result.
In fact, the CAD ought to strengthen.

I also doubt that even in the extreme case of a separation, Quebec will print its own currency and maintain a Central Bank of its own.
More likely, it will share the CAD in a similar arrangement as the one proposed by Iceland in sharing the CAD.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> I also doubt that even in the extreme case of a separation, Quebec will print its own currency and maintain a Central Bank of its own.
> More likely, it will share the CAD in a similar arrangement as the one proposed by Iceland in sharing the CAD.


I agree that Quebec will want to share our currency and central bank, but would Canada agree to let them share our currency and central bank? I believe this was one of the draws to the "No" vote in 1995, Quebecers were warned by the "No" side that separation would mean complete independence from Canada, ie no shared institutions, agreements, currencies etc.


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Don't think a PQ win will affect the TSX but since it was asked about the politics of it all ain't gonna happen.
The whiners had their day in the sun and did the true natives/aboriginals of Quebec area have their thoughts voiced.
Out west we are more concerned about getting the crops in right now!


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

As I type this, we are mere hours away from knowing the results.

I have always understood that foreign investors move their money to where they perceive to be the most political and fiscal stability--be that Canada or somewhere else.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Belguy said:


> I have always understood that foreign investors move their money to where they perceive to be the most political and fiscal stability--be that Canada or somewhere else.


The key word here is "perceive." Foreign investors who take the time to research and understand the country where they hold their investments won't budge even if (as is highly likely) the PQ wins, or even if (possibly) they win a majority. Foreign investors who react in knee-jerk fashion based on limited knowledge and understanding might go elsewhere.

My guess is the PQ will win, either with enough for a narrow majority or a minority, and I also think Québec Solidaire will have a surprisingly strong showing. We'll see.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Ethan said:


> I agree that Quebec will want to share our currency and central bank, but would Canada agree to let them share our currency and central bank? I believe this was one of the draws to the "No" vote in 1995, Quebecers were warned by the "No" side that separation would mean complete independence from Canada, ie no shared institutions, agreements, currencies etc.



i would not agree with this version. Although there has always been academic discussion about how to handle the thornier problems of a quebec separation vote, in 1995 quebecers did *not* flinch from a Yes vote nor did they turn to a No vote at the last minute because they were worried about a central bank which most, in fact, had never even heard of.

quebecers were not "warned" that separation would mean no shared institutions, currencies etc. As a matter of fact a striking characteristic of quebec sovereignist groups is that they tend to believe they will continue enjoying the benefits of federal passports, currency & military support for whatever flood, ice storm or disaster befalls them.

people who lived through 1995 referendum day believe that what flunked the referendum was the obtuseness - indeed the ridiculousness - of the printed question that voters found on their ballots.

here it is. Anyone can see why it was doomed from the getgo.

_Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign, after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership, within the scope of the Bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on 12 June 1995?_

the No's, who were the federalist vote, won by the slimmest of margins. Less than one-half of one per cent.


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

What is the largest employer in Quebec? The federal government. Why Quebecers think that they could succeed on their terms and somehow not lose all of the federal employment - not to mention transfer payments - is beyond me.

Oh well - down south of us they think they can somehow reduce their massive deficit and debt by cutting taxes - so self delusion is clearly political reality all around.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Didn't we win on the Plains of Abraham. Maybe it's time to reconquer Quebec.


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## Miser (Apr 24, 2011)

The Greece of Canada......take 15B a year in transfer payments and want to leave??
Let the MF'ers leave and quit the blackmail of the ROC.


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

I read this passgae when reading an article on post eection Quebec - not sure if the author has much credibility - but the author certainly has their opinion! (see below) - orginal article can be found here http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/MacDonald+some+damage/7190112/story.html



"Make no mistake: an era of peace and relative harmony in Ottawa-Quebec relations is coming to an abrupt end.

As for the economy, the one thing markets detest most is political uncertainty. Moreover, investment and jobs will not come to a province whose government is hostile to business.

As of today, there is no incentive for business to locate in Quebec. For example, anyone making more than $250,000 a year would see the top marginal tax rate increased from 48 to 55 per cent, when Quebec residents already pay the highest taxes in the country. The capital gains tax would also be increased from 50 to 75 per cent. Locating a plant in Cornwall, or a high-tech startup in Ottawa, is a complete no-brainer. Re-locating is also an option.


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/MacDonald+some+damage/7190112/story.html#ixzz25ZPjcSa4


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

here is the quebec popular vote for tuesday's election, plus history of the popular vote since 1960.

although provincewide the liberals & the pq seemed to be running almost neck-&-neck in popular support, new this year is the significant increase in emerging party Quebec Solidaire. QS supporters went from 1 to 2 members in the national assembly but we can see here how they garnered 6% of the popular vote.

with a feminist, sovereignist, environmentalist platform, softcore QS are hardcore peace-loving separatists who will back new premier Pauline Marois on every critical vote j'estime.

.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Quebec Solidaire, a platform based on group hugs and puppies.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

this, from one of the most huggable puppies in cmf forum !


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## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm not sure what this vote represents with regard to Canada-Quebec relations. Will The CAQ & SQ support the PQ on a referedum agenda? I'm sure is a long way to go before any speculation/discussion wrt Quebec in Canada - but these numbers (only 31% Liberal support!!!) so, doesn't look good for the federation.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

will the Coalition AQ & QS support sovereignty in a referendum ?

CAQ: non
QS: oui, mais ils ne sont que 2

it's widely believed that mme marois herself does not favour a referendum now, but she needs to appease the hardcore séparatistes within the PQ.

the CAQ holds enormous power, nothing can be done without capturing some of their members' votes ...


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Heard some first hand account on the ground from my anglo friends in Montreal. I didn't know how bad things have turned since I left, people were way chiller when I was there. So glad I got out in time. Must've been my subconscious working its magic again. 75% capital gains tax? You must be kidding me.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

dubmac said:


> but these numbers (only 31% Liberal support!!!) so, doesn't look good for the federation.


Keep in mind that 1) the Liberal party in Québec is not the same party as the federal Liberals, and 2) Jean Charest was not much loved here in Québec, and there were growing accusations of corruption and links to the mob at the highest levels of his government. Many of the votes received by the PQ were probably votes against Charest as opposed to votes for the PQ, but on the other hand I think a lot of the votes that the Liberals did get were from people who "held their nose and voted Liberal" because they didn't want to see the PQ get a majority. There was probably a lot of strategic voting in this election. Québec Solidaire got a lot of votes in part on the strength of the debate performance by their leader Françoise David, who stayed above the fray and talked clearly and compellingly about her party's vision. She impressed a lot of people, including her opponents in the debate.


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## dcaron (Jul 23, 2009)

brad said:


> Keep in mind that 1) the Liberal party in Québec is not the same party as the federal Liberals, and 2) Jean Charest was not much loved here in Québec, and there were growing accusations of corruption and links to the mob at the highest levels of his government. Many of the votes received by the PQ were probably votes against Charest as opposed to votes for the PQ, but on the other hand I think a lot of the votes that the Liberals did get were from people who "held their nose and voted Liberal" because they didn't want to see the PQ get a majority. There was probably a lot of strategic voting in this election. Québec Solidaire got a lot of votes in part on the strength of the debate performance by their leader Françoise David, who stayed above the fray and talked clearly and compellingly about her party's vision. She impressed a lot of people, including her opponents in the debate.


This is the most representative post of this thread, and represents exactly what occured in the Quebec elections.

Voter turnout was impressive at more than 73 per cent, because people wanted to express their frustration, and wanted change.

The liberal's fell because of the corruption, and lousy handling of the student crisis this year.

The CAQ got many votes (almost one third) after only 1 year in power, because people wanted a clean up, did not to want Charest's liberal party be re-elected, and did not want to hand over power over to Marois's PQ party.

In the end PQ won with a minority, because people wanted change, and the CAQ party was not mature enough, and their leader had no negotiation skills. The CAQ and Liberals oppostion will keep them in check, and hopefully, we wont be faced with a referendum "separatist" vote for a third time. See this article about the low odds of this occuring ... 
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/03/separatism-quebec-pq-referendum_n_1851412.html

I also like this article which paints a very likely outcome ... http://rabble.ca/columnists/2012/09/what-pq-minority-rule-will-mean-quebec


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Personally I think if there's any stronger motivation for sovereignty these days it's due to the Harper government. If you consider the strong showing of the NPD in Quebec in the last federal election plus the fact that in this provincial election only 27% of voters supported a party that is to the right of the Liberals, it's clear that conservatives are a minority in Québec. There's just as much animosity toward Harper here as there was toward Charest. Having Harper in power makes people here feel even less connected to Canada than they might have before, because they feel their values aren't reflected in national policy and the country as a whole has a very different vision from that of their province. In that sense, Harper is Marois' unwitting ally in her quest for a referendum.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

In other words Quebec continues to believe that the tail should wag the dog?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

No, I think it just means that Québec feels even more like a "distinct society" from the rest of Canada when the federal leadership's values and priorities are so different from those of the province. If you worked in a company run by a management team whose policies you fundamentally disagreed with, you'd probably start wondering whether you should look for another job....or for a more accurate analogy, start your own business ;-)


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

I seem to recall, but I've never been able to locate online confirmation of it, that at the time of Rene Levesque's installation as PQ Premier he had a contingency plan, (and/or had already made overtures), wherein he'd request the US to grant a separate Quebec some sort of state status............although why he would ever have thought that the Americans would give him a better deal than Canada is beyond me.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

There's long been a secessionist movement in Vermont, whose residents similarly feel alienated/different from the rest of the United States, and I think there's been some (mostly joking) discussion about Vermont and Québec forming a union.

Anyway, it's all academic for the reasons discussed upthread. I haven't spent the 10 years of reading and research it would take to form a truly well-informed opinion on Québec sovereignty and what it might look like, but the prospects of it occurring seem very slim indeed.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

brad said:


> There's long been a secessionist movement in Vermont, whose residents similarly feel alienated/different from the rest of the United States, and I think there's been some (mostly joking) discussion about Vermont and Québec forming a union.


new state to be called le Queue Vert


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Hahah. Québec has already effectively annexed Burlington, Vermont and its airport; there's been a big push in Burlington to make signs bilingual and we even encountered a francophone welcome committee last time we were there. The airport parking lot frequently sports more Québec license plates than Vermont ones.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Thanks to their socialist leanings, Quebec's debt is a blight on Canada's balance sheet:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/03/debt-not-separatists-the-threat-from-quebec

If they ever did separate, they would become like the economic France of North America.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Since we've resumed discussion on the political aspects, (after admonition):

Back to the days of Parizeau, and further to points I'd noted earlier:

Quebec



> The starting point in any negotiations is the fact that federal government debt bears the promise that the Government of Canada, will pay the interest owing and will pay back the principal at maturity. Canadian and foreign investors purchased Government of Canada debt on the basis of the federal government's promise. No investors purchased it expecting to collect a nickel from the Government of Quebec.
> 
> Quebec separatists know that Canada is on the legal hook for the federal debt so they like to say that they will pay their "fair share" on moral grounds, not because they have to.





> Parizeau would prefer to leave the Canadian federal government stuck with financing the public debt and with carrying the debt on its books. This would mean that creditors would only be able to come after us for payment and not Quebec. Such an arrangement would be beneficial for Quebec, but not for Canada. The interest paid to the federal government by Quebec for its share of public debt charges would be regarded as much less secure than the federal government's previous full access to the Quebec taxes. This could jeopardize the Canadian government's credit rating and would make it both more difficult and more costly to raise money.
> 
> Another disadvantage of keeping all federal debt in Canada's name indefinitely is that it would give Quebec a lever over Canada that could be used in subsequent negotiations over unrelated issues. Quebec could always threaten to withhold the interest payments until it got its way on any issue. Indeed, Jacques Parizeau has speculated that in certain circumstances Quebec's "cheques might leave a little later." Economist William Robson of the C.D. Howe Institute has called this "a gun to Ottawa's head."


I doubt that the current group would be any more agreeable.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I suspect that Parti Quebecois election results are too muted to have any noticeable impact on the TSX. However, the recent propensity towards demonstrations, anti-business rhetoric, envy-politics, xenophobia, corruption and even violence cannot be good for the Quebec economy.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spidey said:


> ... the recent propensity towards demonstrations, anti-business rhetoric, envy-politics, xenophobia, corruption and even violence cannot be good for the Quebec economy.



for a minute i thought you were describing canada at large.

quebec doesn't have any greater degree of xenophobia, envy-politics, anti-business rhetoric, etc than any other canadian province.

the may 2012 casseroles marches in montreal were models of civilized peace compared to violent G20 riots in toronto & violent stanley cup riots in vancouver.

i never heard that a pot-banging casserole so much as cracked one store window. Police, too, were admirably gallant. On one evening police sent an email to organizers as the demonstrators gathered at the staging ground in parc emilie gamelin. "Begging you," the police wrote, "we do beg of you to take the first exit off the overpass to the right, in order to leave the main lanes open for traffic." Apparently the marchers complied.

i am truly disappointed & saddened by the hatred for quebec that's coming from some posters in this forum. It makes me all the more grateful for an appreciation one member wrote upthread about the joys & pleasures of travelling in the gaspésie. There he saw how low-key & welcoming the people of quebec really are.

what i think is that the rootstock people of quebec, taken in the mass, are a vital element in preventing the americanization - the plastification, if you please - of canada. In the same way as do newfoundlanders, maritimers, yukoners, prairie farmers & vancouver islanders, most quebecers uphold small-scale social values that are dear to us as a people, although unfortunately they have eroded significantly in the US.

taken in the mass, quebecers tend to be a hardworking, respectful & small-c conservative people. One could even describe them as old-fashioned, as soon as one gets out of the cities & starts travelling down along the lower st-lawrence. A bonus is a native wit & creativity. To me, quebec always seems poised in a good spot between the preservationism of old provincial france & the edgy tear-it-all-down energy of the US.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

> quebec doesn't have any greater degree of xenophobia, envy-politics, anti-business rhetoric, etc than any other canadian province.


By the way, I am fascinated by Quebec and their culture and also enjoy visiting the province. I listen to Quebec radio regularly in my ever ending quest to improve my French language abilities and I do perceive a difference in attitude. There definitely seems to be a greater propensity towards intervention in business and personal affairs (at least what I consider to be such). I don't think any politician in ROC could get elected, even as a minority government, after making similar statements or proposed policies to those of Pauline Marois regarding either business or minorities. I could be wrong.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> 1. the may 2012 casseroles marches in montreal were models of civilized peace compared to violent G20 riots in toronto.......
> 2. quebecers tend to be a hardworking, respectful & small-c conservative people.


1. Excusez-moi, but many of them also came from other provinces and were not just Torontonian anarchists.
2. You forgot that a great # of Olympic champions [present & past], come from there. 

For example:
http://www.globalnews.ca/quebec+wins+big+at+the+london+olympics/6442689315/story.html


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> 2. You forgot that a great # of Olympic champions [present & past], come from there.


And musicians.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> And musicians.


Well, I don't know all the musicians, but I know the divers, speed skaters, etc., etc. :biggrin:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> Well, I don't know all the musicians



Arcade Fire

speaking of harold's picture of céline,

a while ago i was commenting to an ardent souvereigniste friend how, in reality, ms dion is a plain, gangly, totally ordinary-looking quebec woman. The voice is real, that's for sure, & so are the good heart & the thoughtfulness she always has for others. But the hairdos, the false extensions, the makeups, the plastic surgeries, the hollywood costumes ... it's easy to look through these & see the bony, unglamorous girl-next-door.

my séparatist friend gave me a baffled look. But that's exactly why the people of quebec love céline so much, he said. She's just like us. Her hairdos don't matter.

ok i get it. They don't love her because she's a rich, glittering celebrity star. They love her because what they see is a homely girl in a bathrobe, with her hair up in curlers, a girl with a voice to break your heart, who is tucking her children into bed for the night. Now that's a culture with some decent values ...


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> She's just like us. Her hairdos don't matter.
> 
> ok i get it. They don't love her because she's a rich, glittering celebrity star. They love her because what they see is a homely girl in a bathrobe, with her hair up in curlers........... Now that's a culture with some decent values ...


The people up in Cape Breton go one better......they've got Rita MacNeil!


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

I predict Quebec will stay together as long as Montreal keep supplying ROC with poutine bagels and smoked meat sandwiches.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

If Quebec separates eventually I think we need to forcefully preserve a no fly zone to

http://www.schwartzsdeli.com/ 

I will drive 200 miles anytime for 2 of those.


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