# Setting the Bar



## michika

I finally finished, or at least fleshed out most of my financial goals.

1) Calculate my net worth on a per check basis. - Started/ In-progress
2) Pay off my personal debt, ETA end of 2009, very early 2010 - Started ETA March 2010
3) Help my partner pay off his debt, ETA mid-late 2010 - Started
4) Institute a financial check up plan with a yearly, or semi-yearly review. Which should include credit history reviews, and some financial reassesment. - Done
5) Max out my RSPs, ETA 2010 - started contributing
6) Pay off my mortgage, current ETA 20 years, goal is less then 10
7) Learn how to invest, and make my money work for me - Started some research - Done/Constantly ongoing
8) Establish a retirement goal, I have a target age of 40-45
9) Start to move my saving methods beyond just high-interest savings accounts, - Done
10) Find the funds to go back to school, starting September 2009 - Done!

So far I'm at a point where I have the budgeting and bill paying stuff down. I've recently started contributing to my RSP, and have also encouraged my partner to do the same. Our biggest financial hurdle currently is paying off debt (school for me, and consumer for him). I'm trying to research and understand how I can best make my money work for me rather then vice versa. 

I suppose it would be fair to say that I'm just starting out with my personal savings & RSPs. I do have a plan, however it is quite detailed in terms of debt replayment, but after that, all I have is save (personal & RSPs) and pay down my mortgage. I'm lost after that at the moment.


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## Rickson9

Great start! Good job!


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## michika

Thank you!

I'd like to add another goal.

11) Develop a passive income replace my working income, although I have no timeline on this yet.


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## michika

1) Calculate my net worth on a per check basis. - Started
7) Learn how to invest, and make my money work for me - Started some research
9) Start to move my saving methods beyond just high-interest savings accounts
10) Find the funds to go back to school, starting September 2009

I've made the most progress on these so far.

1) I've been tracking my net worth on a per check basis like I stated, and so far I'm finding that I'm getting on average a 9% increase every 15 days. The bulk of it is coming from paying down/off my debt aggressively, and the rest is coming from mortgage payments, and my savings contributions.

7) I've been continuing to pick up books from the thread with book recommendations. Its coming along, slowly but surely.

9) So far I'm leaning towards mutual funds and index funds. However I'm more interested in index funds right now. As usual though, more research is needed. I have a much better idea of where I think I want to start going to achieve this goal

10) Depending on my job situtation after the end of my contract, I should be starting back in July actually with a summer term. I was also really happy to find that a large number of credits from my previous degree apply to my new degrees.


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## ethos1

michika said:


> 1) I've been tracking my net worth on a per check basis like I stated, and so far _I'm finding that I'm getting on average a 9% increase every 15 days_. The bulk of it is coming from paying down/off my debt aggressively, and the rest is coming from mortgage payments, and my savings contributions.
> .


take note - this is a very smart approach


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## michika

This time I saw my numbers drop to reflect a decrese by -0.77%. Unfortunately it happens sometimes. This bi-weekly drop as a culmination of the timing of when my bills were generated, along with a few expected expenses and some semi-emergency purchases that we were expecting however, not for at least another month.

Essentially I put off my usual large lump sum debt payments this check in favour of other required purchases for my home, and for myself.


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## FrugalTrader

michika said:


> This time I saw my numbers drop to reflect a decrese by -0.77%. Unfortunately it happens sometimes. This bi-weekly drop as a culmination of the timing of when my bills were generated, along with a few expected expenses and some semi-emergency purchases that we were expecting however, not for at least another month.
> 
> Essentially I put off my usual large lump sum debt payments this check in favour of other required purchases for my home, and for myself.


Michika, you may find that updating your net worth every 2 weeks creates too much noise. I update every month and even that can be a bit much. Remember, it's all about the long term trend. Keep up the great work!


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## moneygardener

I agree with FT and I actually update net worth every 2 months in order to eliminate some of the noise.


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## michika

Right now I find the noise the most beneficial part of this. Watching the numbers on my biggest debt decrease bi-weekly is the best motivator at this point. However, in early July when its paid off I'll look at going to monthly or bi-monthly. Or maybe I'll just track my debt separately to keep its motivating ability, and track my net worth monthly or bi-monthly.

Thank you for the suggestions.


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## moneygardener

Whatever works, because motivation is the key.


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## michika

In regards to #7, I started playing the FP stock challenge, and yesterday went well for me, but I forgot to sell some key stocks at the end of the day, and it hurt me. I like this opportunity to try playing around, yet not having to risk any money. I think its a great hands on learning experience.


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## michika

I had a couple of bumps in the road in June. First we were the recipients of two back to back emergencies which completely depleted my newly topped up emergency fund, the second one forced me to do the unthinkable; dip into my RSP account. The second bump is that when my contract got renewed it got done so at a considerably lower rate of pay. A job is better then no job.

I've changed my time-frame on paying off my personal debt, and going back to school to account for these issues. So my new immediate challenges are rebuilding my emergency account, replenishing the money out of my RSP savings, and taking one course in September (to maintain my registration). I'm also actively looking for new employment or potentially a second job.

In the grand scheme of thing both things can be considered minor, but right now the emergency fund portion of things feel major. I just feel unprotected in case anything unexpected comes up.


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## Cal

Your goal #11 basically ties in to #7......You might find 'the Lazy Investor' a good Read...If I remember that deals w dividend investing.


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## michika

I had to do a whole overhaul due to the pay decrease, and so now assuming everything remains as it is now income wise I will be able to;

- Pay of all my personal debt in 8.5 months, this is up from my original schedule of an early December payout.
- Once again have an emergency cushion
- Continue contributing to my RSPs, replace the money I had to take out
- Reach the $5,000 limit of my TFSA for this year

At the end of this year or early next year I will;
- move my RSPs to a better savings vehicle, savings accounts aren't cutting it
- work my debt repayment money into a new savings scheme after its paid off

I'm going to find a copy of the Lazy Investor to read when I can get the chance. Thank you for the recommendation.

The FP Stock Challenge is working out really well for me. I'm finding I'm learning a lot better with the opportunity to do more hands on learning. I've already surpassed my original goal of not going into the red, and my second goal of making $5,000 on top of the original $100K they give you at the start.


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## specialk

We decided to just go ahead and pay down debt like crazy instead of investing into tfsa and rsp etc etc. Theory being that we can make up for lost ground later without monthly payments, plus the peace of mind/risk factor...but whatever is working for you, good luck!


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## michika

My partner has an employer match program that he is taking advantage of, and while I don't have an employer match, I am no longer contributing quite as much as I was before. It only makes sense for my partner to keep contributing, as he doesn't see any additional money off his net check with or without the RSP deduction, plus money from his employer is free money so why not?

I can definitely see where you are coming from though. What do you do for an emergency fund?


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## krackerjack121

michika said:


> had a couple of bumps in the road in June. First we were the recipients of two back to back emergencies which completely depleted my newly topped up emergency fund


I think that is why you have an emergency fund though. It is better to have that then to wish you had it and now have to dip even more into your RSP. So I must say well done on having it and good luck in getting it rebuilt back up.

Rocky


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## michika

I unfortunately have no luck lately it seems.

I'm now on the hunt for a new job beginning September 1st. My contract here is being concluded, with no extension, on August 31st. My company remains on track with other simlar sized companies in the area, and still regularly laying off large numbers of workers. I definitely don't believe the recession for workers is truly over.

I've barely started to re-stock my emergency fund, so it looks like all the money coming in for the next month is going to savings and staying there while I search for a new opportunity. We're now halting our additional debt repayment plans to further pad our savings.

Win some lose some, its the way it goes. I had a good run here, and I hope that I can transition to another position soon without causing too many large distruptions in our short and longer term plans.


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## michika

I found myself my new job opportunity, so that is one less stress to worry about. I'm also only about a month out from finishing paying off all my consumer debt!

We have less property taxes to pay this year, which amounts to about an extra $120 a month for us to use. We've opted to re-invest it in our mortgage against the principle.

Starting in October we've jointly decided to start tackling my partner's debt. We have created two plans for him, one in which everything gets paid off in three years, and one in which everything is paid off in less then one year. We're aiming for less then one year, but we're using the 3 year plan, as our super-conservative, what if something happens, plan. 

Now I'm just excited to finally be able to contribute heavily to my savings, and possibly start investing. I'm still wary of investing but loved the option to learn more about the stock market by playing the Financial Post Stock Challenge.

I'm planning to close out 2009 on a very high note!


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## Rickson9

michika said:


> I'm still wary of investing but loved the option to learn more about the stock market by playing the Financial Post Stock Challenge


The lessons from the FP stock challenge would be the ones you don't want to learn.

However, congratulations on your progress!


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## michika

Rickson9 said:


> The lessons from the FP stock challenge would be the ones you don't want to learn.
> 
> However, congratulations on your progress!


I mostly just learned how to read charts better then guessing at them. What shouldn't I be learning from it? I'd rather correct bad behavior now then later.

I have also almost finished paying off my own personal consumer debt, and I'm now onto helping my partner with his debt, and figuring out exactly how it is that I want to invest the money in our budget ear marked for savings, and the money I have for wealth accumulation and long-term savings (retirement).

Its nice to see things coming together faster now.


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## Rickson9

michika said:


> I mostly just learned how to read charts better then guessing at them. What shouldn't I be learning from it? I'd rather correct bad behavior now then later.


It cannot be "corrected". 

From my experience how a person invests is ingrained in their personality. It cannot be changed. Warren Buffett experessed this phenomenon best:

“With some, the idea of buying dollar bills for forty cents takes, and with some it doesn’t take. It’s like an inoculation. It’s extraordinary to me. If it doesn’t grab them right away, I find that you can talk to them for years and show them records–and it just doesn’t make any difference. I’ve never seen anyone who became a convert over a ten-year period with this approach. It’s always instant recognition or nothing. Whatever it is, I’ve never understood it.”

For example, if a person believes in technical analysis, then nothing will shake them from that belief. Vice versa for those who believe in fundamental analysis. And in each group there are a million distinctions.

I've read the quote before but continued to talk with friends where the method didn't "immediately take", but the quote turned out to be true.



michika said:


> I have also almost finished paying off my own personal consumer debt, and I'm now onto helping my partner with his debt, and figuring out exactly how it is that I want to invest the money in our budget ear marked for savings, and the money I have for wealth accumulation and long-term savings (retirement).
> 
> Its nice to see things coming together faster now.


Congratulations! That's awesome!


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## michika

I see what you mean!

I thought you were talking about bad habits such as guessing vs. understanding the charts, or making assumptions, like common beginners mistakes.

I think I have decided though that playing the stock market may not be for me. It requires too much daily monitoring (for the stocks I've currently picked), and I can't commit that sort of time. Any investing I do probably has to stay within the realm of DRIPS, etc. as my job no longer provides me the luxury of breaks.


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## tom_ford

It's really a good start to map out your goals. And it's most important to stick to them. I think it's time to list down my own goals as well.


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## michika

I just started moving some of my savings to other vehicles beyond high interest savings accounts. I can check another one off my list above. I feel better knowing that some of my money is now working a little harder for me.

Right now I'm kind of just in a holding pattern, contributing money each paycheck. It feels like I've found the perfect equilibrium in terms of my savings ratio. I'm seeing regular large increases in my accounts, I have a reasonable amount of spending money, and I'm still able to make improvements on my house without any big issues.

Things are good, I just need to continue to be encouraged by the increases I'm seeing after every check, and that should reinforce my continued behavior.


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## dogcom

Rickson9 said "It cannot be "corrected". 

From my experience how a person invests is ingrained in their personality. It cannot be changed. Warren Buffett experessed this phenomenon best:

“With some, the idea of buying dollar bills for forty cents takes, and with some it doesn’t take. It’s like an inoculation. It’s extraordinary to me. If it doesn’t grab them right away, I find that you can talk to them for years and show them records–and it just doesn’t make any difference. I’ve never seen anyone who became a convert over a ten-year period with this approach. It’s always instant recognition or nothing. Whatever it is, I’ve never understood it.”

For example, if a person believes in technical analysis, then nothing will shake them from that belief. Vice versa for those who believe in fundamental analysis. And in each group there are a million distinctions.

I've read the quote before but continued to talk with friends where the method didn't "immediately take", but the quote turned out to be true."

This is very interesting and for the most part true but for me I don't think so. I am very interested in technical analysis but at the same time I am a original value investor following Peter Cundill. 

I am very different I come from a trust no one or anything background and I feel that everyone is a crook and I never trust anyone. So all companies, CEO's, governments and so on I have no trust for. Think about it if you even leave a pen on your desk in school someone will steal it. I feel you are a value investor because you cut through the crap and realize where an investment will go.

I personally enjoy investing in penny stocks because it is all crap all the time and thus it is like the devil you know.


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## michika

Just wanted to say that I temporarily met my 2nd goal of paying off all my personal debt (excluding my mortgage). Long story short, I had to have my wisdom teeth removed, and while originally my insurance company committed to covering the bulk of the cost in the initial pre-determination, they later came back and said they'd done a re-determination and then chose to cover very little.

Unfortunately my personal debt went from $0 right back up to where it was about 4 months ago. It was nice to be debt free for a little while, and soon enough I'm sure I'll be back there.


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## michika

Little bit more of an update;

I'm back on top again, got my medical debt paid off and I've just finished updating my financial goals.

1) Calculate my net worth on a per check basis. - Ongoing
2) Stay out of consumer debt - Ongoing
3) Help my partner pay off his debt, ETA mid-late 2010 - Started and going very well
4) Institute a financial check up plan with a yearly, or semi-yearly review. Which should include credit history reviews, and some financial re-assesment.
5) Max out my TFSA account - Contributing regularly
6) Grow my RSPs regularly - Contributing each paycheque
7) Pay off my mortgage, current ETA 17 years. - We've opted to increase our weekly payments by $50.
8) Learn how to invest, and make my money work for me - Started and working well
9) Get our wills in place - shopping around for someone to do this for us.

This year we're jointly focusing on reducing debt (his), paying off the mortgage faster, and growing our assets. We have a really nice budget set up already which is allowing us to save between 15%-20% of our income. We're just waiting to find out our annual insurance costs on our house, cars, and rider policies.

All in all things are definitely looking much better then they did this time last year. I feel like I've learned quite a bit from reading the posts here. I've been reading on and off about personal finance.


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## michika

Things are working out quite well. I've got most everything under control, and I've been regularly paying down debt and saving religiously. Now I'm at the point where I'm just mostly saving and looking for assets to accumulate. I have just a little bit of debt remaining but I will be paying it off on Friday.

I do need to replace my car in the next 6-8 months, however I am hoping to hold out for another year or so. I'm also planning on taking my first unpaid vacation later this year. I've begun saving already, but am strugging to get the time off.

My next step is starting to research how I want my money to work for me. I think in the future realestate may be for me, but for now I'm leaning towards focusing on quality dividend paying stocks, and other small (less then 10K investments). I wish I knew of more places to do research on such things.


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## the-royal-mail

Don't forget to consume less!

Reducing your consumption is good for the earth and VERY good for your pocket book. Cars do need to be replaced but these days consumers rack up a lot of debt on electronic mobile devices. You do not need a cell phone, ipod, latest MP digital camera, blu ray DVD player, plasma tv, latest computer, monitor etc etc etc. These things are the source of much consumer debt.

The best way to eliminate debt is never to get into it in the first place.


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## michika

Unfortunately my debt isn't consumer debt its a) school debt, and b) medical debt from surgery and the resulting aftercare. I had no choice on the medical debt, as it was pretty much as close to non-emergency emergency surgery as you can get. Just waiting for tomorrow's payday to put the last payment on my debt!

I'm not an overly big consumer of 'stuff'. Yes I do have a nice cellphone (I work three jobs, and require it), same goes for my computer. Everything else though is usually thrifted. I was very lucky though this past holiday season and won a beautiful large television at a company party. I think I do live well within my means.

I do though wish I knew how to address and see the signs of lifestyle creep. I received a raise at one of my jobs, effectively doubling my income. I'm trying very hard to dedicate those extra funds to savings/debt. Anyone else struggle with this?


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## 72camaross

I have struggled with the lifestyle creep. I took a new job a year ago that was a 33% increase in pay. Before I was living cheque to cheque and after I still was.. Only in the last few months have I finally got it sorted out!!


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## michika

How did you end up beating it?

I paid off my debt today....and then I got a call from my other half....one of the seat heaters in our car set the passenger side seat on fire. Thankfully I have a) an awesome insurance broker who is looking into if it is worth claiming the repairs, b) an emergency fund, and c) I'm finally over 25 which means I can drive a rental vehicle.


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## the-royal-mail

Congrats on paying back your debt! Although you are relatively alone (other than us at CMF) in enjoying your success, you should nevertheless savour the moment in time before you right now.

And you have nothing to worry about regarding how you got into that debt in the first place. As I often say, sh-t happens. You deal with it and move on.

Little story for you. I had a set of unfortunate circumstances a few years back that lead to me racking up nearly $30K in debt after exhausting about $12K in rainy day savings. Once I was back on my feet, I setup a simple excel calculator (4 rows; date, amount, payment, balance) to show my debt-repayment plan and EVERY chance I had I would pay down a chunk and then manually update my little calculator. It was a cheap thrill to see the bottom line figure get progressively smaller and I could actually see at what date the debt would be gone. Well, the date came and went (and it was highlighted in red bold with the $0 at the bottom) but I still review that little calculator from time to time and see just how much of a financial hole I had to dig myself out of. Scary but it CEMENTED what I already knew at that time and that was the criticality of keeping a LOT of rainy day cash. You just never know.

All the best michika. Enjoy and savour your success. You've done well.


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## michika

Thank you!

I do something very similar. I use an Excel sheet (well many) to track my networth, investments, etc. I lined up all my debts and wrote out what I would be paying on them every paycheque. I got to watch it all happen, and I got to see huge growth in my networth. I find it really reinforcing to see that big $0 or to watch my numbers go up and up and up.

I'm going home to celebrate in half an hour. I bought a small bottle of champagne to celebrate with! I can fully appreciate the work that went into getting that $0 balance!


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## the-royal-mail

Don't forget to spend some time staring at that $0 on your excel file while sipping the champagne! I know it sounds silly, but those charts we use are CRITICAL to monitoring our success. Whoever invented those is a genius and I think a lot of people underestimate them. 

Go and look at the $0 now again. Savour it.


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## 72camaross

michika said:


> How did you end up beating it?
> 
> I paid off my debt today....and then I got a call from my other half....one of the seat heaters in our car set the passenger side seat on fire. Thankfully I have a) an awesome insurance broker who is looking into if it is worth claiming the repairs, b) an emergency fund, and c) I'm finally over 25 which means I can drive a rental vehicle.


I just told myself I had to. I became frugal and cut down on partying for no reason, buying toys I don't really need. I now just look for ways to spend my free time making money if at all possible instead of buying something to entertain myself. 
Those excel sheets are great, I got a networth sheet and paycheque to paycheque sheet that shows what goes where right out of my cheque so I watch my debt go down and savings go up every 2 weeks. Feels great! Just turned 25 this year and got my credit cards paid off, now onto the student loan haha. hope the champagne was good!


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## michika

Champagne was delcious! I savored that $0 pretty much all weekend long.

Yesterday was a relatity check, my partner had his weekly hours cut from 50+ to less then 15. We started adjusting our budget yesterday, and will be making changes all this week. Unfortunately the income split between us is about 70/30 and the resulting paycut considerably hurts our ability to save much after just covering the basics (food, mortgage, utilities). I'm sad but its part of life, and I'm sure there is something to learn from this.

The hunt has already begun for a new FT day job for him, as well as we're both considering PT evening/weekend jobs. We want to make up the lost income so we don't loose time on our goals. As well there can be benefits to holding a PT job such as retail discounts, etc. I guess we'll see what comes of it all.


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## the-royal-mail

The above post is a classic example of what we mean when we say 'rainy day'. I've been on this earth long enough to have experienced those sorts of nasty surprises on a regular basis. It's why I place such a high importance on following the expert advice to save 6-12 months living expenses in the form of cash.

Anyway, sorry that happened to you, though you are learning good money mgmt skills (plus what you already knew before you came to CMF) and will now need to apply what you learned. Good luck - this too shall pass.


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## michika

I gave up two of my most favorite luxuries as part of our cost cutting measures; dog walking & yard clean-up. Yes I will save, but UGH I loath the idea of having to go out to the yard and do the clean up myself. I also feel terrible for my dogs because they've lost out as well. First luxury back once we're ok again is dog services!

I also ended up receiving a few free plants from a friend who ended up with too many seedlings. I'll have lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, and herbs this year. I do a small garden every year, but with all the free plants I just got, its going to be a much larger garden. Its like free food, and all I have to do is enjoy it!


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## michika

Paring down of the budget is complete now that about 65% of our monthly net income is gone. Yes, there will probably be EI, but we aren't counting on it. We both gave up a lot; our bills now only consist of mortgage, utilities, gas & maintenace, groceries, and the internet. Unfortunately on only my income we can't afford anything beyond that. 

We cut back or completed removed;
- Dog walker/yard cleaning
- We parked 2/3 vehicles leaving only the work truck running
- Bus pass, its cheaper for me to get a ride to and from work
- Entertainment money; only enterainment we have now is the internet!
- Working on cutting our grocery bill
- Cleaning products; we're going to try making our own from now on
- Using the dryer - we'll be hanging most items to dry now
- Organized sports
- Vacations (for now)

To make more cash;
- We're both taking on side jobs
- I'm trying to get more hours at my second job, and am looking for a third
- Selling some electronics we no longer need
- Consigning items we have no use for
- Returned all of our bottles (Yay for $350!)

If this drags on longer then three months we're debating on
- Taking on a renter (which is the absolute last resort)
- Moving into our basement and renting out the main floor of the house
- Selling our house at the end of the summer and returning to renting (very unfavorable option as we are mid-reno in our basement and landscaping)

For now my other half hunts for a job by day, along with walking the dogs, and working on the reno. All and all it sucks, but it happens. The nice thing is that we've been stockpiling reno material for about a year (sales, freebies from other renos, etc.) so he's been working steadily on the house. I come home everyday to some really nice changes. I've also cashed in more AirMiles for hardware store gift certificates incase we need extra items here or there and don't have the cash to lay out for them.

One of the things we'd like to do is really work at reducing the cost of our utilities. I'm sure a lot of it comes from our ancient appliances (think Harvest Gold!). We need to borrow a Kill-a-Watt meter to figure out if upgrading our appliances (think swapping for something newer via Craigslist or Kijiji) would help cut down on those costs.

Its going to be a very frugal summer!


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## Cal

I assume your house has a separate entrance to be able to move into the basement.

It could be a blessing in disguise, to finally get the basement reno'd. Hopefully the tide will turn.

I would consider renting out 1 floor, perhaps only for 1 year. Yes it may suck. But by then I am sure that you will both be working. Just keep telling yourselves it is only 1 year. And think of how much it will help.


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## michika

It certainly could be! First though we'd need to finish the bathroom in the basement, we have most of the pieces, but need to a) do the work, and b) get some more finishing materials. We could probably get it done and into a livable space in about a month or two, with no additional financial outlay. Just need to find me some time!


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## michika

I got paid today, and I didn't have to put a cent of my cheque towards debt. It is an awesome feeling, almost as good as seeing everything at a $0 balance for the first time. It made my day to have that happen.


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## michika

Full-time employment has been had once again! The job starts in a month, and full cheques are still about a month away after that. Something is better then nothing!


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## the-royal-mail

Great! No more riding crowded, seat-less buses and making your own cleaning products!


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## michika

Cal said:


> I assume your house has a separate entrance to be able to move into the basement.
> 
> It could be a blessing in disguise, to finally get the basement reno'd. Hopefully the tide will turn.
> 
> I would consider renting out 1 floor, perhaps only for 1 year. Yes it may suck. But by then I am sure that you will both be working. Just keep telling yourselves it is only 1 year. And think of how much it will help.


There is still talk about doing this starting in the fall. We're just both looking around for landlord tools, and helpful information about selecting tenents and setting a rental price. I think if I could get $800-$1,000 per month (utilities included), we could make some great strides in our financial goals this year. I am however very wary about roommates due to very bad experiences in the past when I was in University.


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## michika

michika said:


> Full-time employment has been had once again! The job starts in a month, and full cheques are still about a month away after that. Something is better then nothing!


No luck. This job fell through in a way, it started, and then due to supply chain issues it has been put on hold. It looks like we'll still be down one income for the rest of the summer.

My other half has been picking up side jobs as they come available, and we're still working on the basement reno to make renting out our main floor an option. I'm sad because I'm really concerned about how we're going to make it through if all the pronostication about a double dip recession comes to pass.

I think the second part of finishing the basement now, along with a few other minor improvements, is that we are also in a way preparing to sell our house if things don't improve in the next few months. I'm at a loss of what else we can be doing to reduce costs, bring in more money, and make each dollar go further. The idea of selling my house is very difficult, I don't have any emotional attachment to the house itself, more so the idea of all the time and effort I put in working to be able to purchase in the first place. I guess it just feels like one giant step back. I have no intentions of letting this whole thing get to the point where we can't cover our basic bills and needs (groceries, etc.), so we set a time limit of August to complete our ongoing renovations and at that point decide if selling the house is in our best interest.

If we sell, do we re-purchase something smaller, or do we go back to renting (which I don't feel suits our lifestyle). Too many questions, too few dollars!


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## rookie

hmm...
hope for the best for you.

have you found out how easy/hard it is to find a good tenant once your basement is finished?


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## michika

It looks like it will be medium-hard to find a good tenant. We're extremely wary about roommates, and to us this is the ultimate last attempt. In the past I've been victim of theft, identify theft, and I had one lady that punished my dog (fed her rawhide which she can't handle) to punish me for asking for her late rent. 

We don't have a separate entrance for a tenant and we'd have to in the least share the kitchen. We can probably rent out just a room, but we're looking at considerably less money.

In the very least our basement is getting finished, and after that we can figure out exactly how tenants might fit into the picture.


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## the-royal-mail

Have you considered advertising with a local college or university, offering room and board or room with kitchen privilege to a student for a nominal fee? You won't get rich but it would be something. Of course you might have to wait 2-3 months but if you advertise now with the college your name will at least be on the list that next year's students will see. Not sure if the deadline has passed. Other than students, I can't think of many other GOOD renters who would be interested in such an arrangement with a non-private entrance.


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## michika

I figured out how to rent out rooms; short term rentals! I have a huge gaggle of friends who are always only in town for business for 3 weeks to a month and complaining about living in a hotel. A few of them and I discussed the option of just having them rent out our room. Their employer pays the costs for room, board, and a vehicle, and so far I've gotten a great response. Starting in the fall it looks like we'll have someone staying with us three-four weeks on, and then three-four weeks off.

We get the income, we know we can trust these people as their values are similar to ours, plus we also get to maintain some of our privacy and see our jet setting friends more frequently. This looks like an optimal arrangement for both parties.

So now that I've acheived a bunch of my big goals for this year; debt free (excluding the mortgage), and have got an ongoing plan in place to contribute to my RSP and TFSA (when room is available), I'm looking for some more options. I want to accumulate more assets, and I want to bring in more income streams. I need help with these two, and am not really sure where to look for information.


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## the-royal-mail

It sounds like you're doing well. I have to ask though (and you may have already answered this), have you implemented the 3-tiers of saving? You might want to do that before you do too much more (if you haven't already done so). I'm making a decent salary and it is still taking me a lot of time to implement this. At the same time I'm taking a closer look at investing (tier-3) now that I'm in relatively good shape on tiers 1-2. Perhaps you could consider something similar for yourself?


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## michika

What are these three tiers? Or where can I learn more about them?


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## the-royal-mail

Search this forum and read the other threads. I've said a lot about this lately.


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## michika

I'll wait and surf when I get home. I do 90% of my forum browsing on my phone on breaks. Thanks!


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## michika

So a quick little mid-year check into some of my immediate 2010 Goals;

1) Want to see at least a 12K improvement in Networth for 2010 - Done in March
2) Want to see a certain dollar value in each TFSA, RSP, and ISA by the end of 2010 - Done April
3) Want to have a certain dollar value in bonds by the end of 2010 - On track to reach this in November
4) Pay off Debt - Done
5) Want to have started to buy for the Couch Potato Portfolio (within my TFSA) - Inappropriate; minimum 10K investment required with each ETF purchasing being a minimum of $3,000 to make it economical
6) Want to have started a passive income, DRIP?, portfolio (inside my TFSA?) - Done June and still ongoing
7) Want to take more financial courses - Done, opting to stick wtih books due to schedule
8) Make at least two extra payments on the mortgage - Haven't had any extra cash on hand.
9) Make a $20K total improvement in Networth for 2010 - Should have no problems with this.
10) Pay into RSPs each month - Done and ongoing

All and all, we're doing well. Just need to keep up with saving/investing, and I think things will be just fine.


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## Cal

Good, solid goals.

I would caution on #1 and #9, as a double dip could erase those gains, however, if you invested wisely, in time you will have them back.

As per #6, what kind of a drip did you set up? In TFSA, RRSP or non registered account?


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## Four Pillars

michika said:


> So a quick little mid-year check into some of my immediate 2010 Goals;
> 
> 1) Want to see at least a 12K improvement in Networth for 2010 - Done in March
> 2) Want to see a certain dollar value in each TFSA, RSP, and ISA by the end of 2010 - Done April
> 3) Want to have a certain dollar value in bonds by the end of 2010 - On track to reach this in November
> 4) Pay off Debt - Done
> 5) Want to have started to buy for the Couch Potato Portfolio (within my TFSA) - Inappropriate; minimum 10K investment required with each ETF purchasing being a minimum of $3,000 to make it economical
> 6) Want to have started a passive income, DRIP?, portfolio (inside my TFSA?) - Done June and still ongoing
> 7) Want to take more financial courses - Done, opting to stick wtih books due to schedule
> 8) Make at least two extra payments on the mortgage - Haven't had any extra cash on hand.
> 9) Make a $20K total improvement in Networth for 2010 - Should have no problems with this.
> 10) Pay into RSPs each month - Done and ongoing
> 
> All and all, we're doing well. Just need to keep up with saving/investing, and I think things will be just fine.


Glad to see things are going well.

I would suggest that you think about setting goals that you have more influence over.

For example, as Cal said - your networth could be influenced by the markets which are out of your control. I would rather set goals like "contribute $N to my abc account, contribute $T to my TFSA" etc.

I did a post on a similar topic a while back:

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/shooting-down-goals/ 

and someone made a great comment:

“A goal without a plan is simply a wish.”


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## michika

Cal said:


> Good, solid goals.
> 
> I would caution on #1 and #9, as a double dip could erase those gains, however, if you invested wisely, in time you will have them back.
> 
> As per #6, what kind of a drip did you set up? In TFSA, RRSP or non registered account?


For #6 I set it up in my RSP and part of my TFSA. Given our recent cash flow issues I'm hesitant about not having enough liquidity in the event something else happens. Eventually I'm hoping to DRIP 100% in my TFSA, and I'm still not sure about my RSP in the long run, but it works for now.


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## michika

A little bit of an update on when life hands you lemons.

So shortly after my other half landed full time work again I got laid off due to lack of work. I picked up a job a day after my layoff with an income ~40% of my old job's income. I worked 12 hours a day 6 days a week just to bring in the basics. While I was lucky enough not to take on any debt, the experience destroyed my savings account, and made us very house poor.

I landed a new job shortly after that, and while the contract was supposed to go on for about 6 months to a year, due to issues beyond my control (weather, industry, markets, etc.) chances are there will be no work in about 6 weeks. So I'm looking again for another job. I'd get out of my industry but I don't have the capital to retrain. On the plus side all the babyboomers are retiring now, and there are very few people younger then 50 in my field, also I generally enjoy the work I do. I'm just trying to ride it out for now.

2010 has not been good to me in terms of jobs. I've been able to keep food on the table, and the mortgage and utilities paid, but beyond that I'm stuck. We can't even sell our house if we wanted to either, we can't rent for cheaper. This year made me feel like I was unable to function financially; everytime I'd save money for an emergency I'd get laid off, or something completely out of my control would occur. I stopped feeling like anything I was doing was helping from about late July onwards, and I still feel that way.

To sum it up, 2010 sucked in terms of jobs, but I am very affirmed in my belief that I'm resourceful and responsive when it comes to financial difficulties. 

On the sunnier side of things I have met all of my financial goals for 2010, excluding my goal to make two extra payments on my mortgage. I've been doing semi-regular reading on personal finance, and I'm happy with that for now. This is a huge contrast to how I feel about personal finance right now, but when I look at the big picture I can tell I'm making a little bit of positive headway.

I need to set some goals for 2011, I'm going to use some different criteria, more so along the lines of what Four Pillars recommended above. I need to think on them long and hard though because right now I'm feeling kind of bleh about personal finance due to this year's terrible job market, and all the changes going on in my industry. In the very least I'm still excited every payday to fill out my spreadsheet and see that even if there is a small change from the months before, its still a change in a positive direction.


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## the-royal-mail

michika said:


> ...everytime I'd save money for an emergency I'd get laid off, or something completely out of my control would occur.


It sounds to me like your emergency funds were there for you when you needed them most! This is a good thing. Can you imagine your financial state right now if you were NOT saving for emergencies like 2010 has been for you?

It is completely normal that your finances be devastated, and you're not out of the woods yet. Just keep at it, do your best and that's about the best you can do. 

Saving money during the good times is about the only "control" any of us have on these crappy situations.


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## michika

You make a very good point. I'd be screwed, and back in debt without my savings. It just sucks that it happened over and over and over. It wears on you, but I'm sure everyone who is working in the last two years has a similar experience, or at least can relate.

I'm looking forwards to the day where I can once again start contributing to my RSP, TFSA, and savings, and just feel a little more secure in both my job and finances.


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## the-royal-mail

Don't lose hope!

But yes, I can definitely relate. I have had my finances devastated no less than three times due to severe life emergencies and even today all 3 tiers of my savings are not yet filled to the optimum level. Recovering from the last crisis has taken me a very long time. I need about one more year to be at a comfortable level.

I am really glad to hear you had a safety cusion set for yourself. It sounds like you were better prepared than most people would have been.


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## Four Pillars

Wow, you haven't been getting too many breaks.

Given all the job problems, just hanging on is a pretty good goal.

Maybe try to set some goals that are more career related? Although, in the short term, that is pretty hard to control.


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## michika

Career wise I just have to sit and wait for more opportunities (Babyboomers to retire). I've maxed out my education options at this point as they relate to my career, I have a reasonable amount of experience, and I take on any extra tasks I can to branch out, but really it just a waiting game. Overall I'm excellently poised because I'm young, I have a lot of experience in my field, and I can hack it (the washout in my field is about 80% after the first two years). Unfortunately my career is tied into Oil & Gas and the markets haven't been great these last two years, they're picking up, but picking up doesn't always translate into more jobs.

Life would be a bit easier if I just had a consistent paycheque coming in, that is the route of it all. I haven't had a consistent cheque this year at all. Consistency and regularity seems to be the keystone to my whole 2010 year.


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## michika

Life is grand....along with the first snow fall of the year comes with many issues. Since yesterday I've now garnered multiple insurance claims with a deductible grand total of $3,000+!

Yesterday someone with their car hit my parked car and a tree in my front yard. Tree came down on my house. My car is totalled, and there is significant damage to my roof. Yay two claims there; one for auto, one for homeowners.

Then, 'cause things just can't stop there, someone in the alley lost control of their car and went through my garage door and into my other vehicles in my garage. 1 car is a write off, the other is damaged enough that you can't drive it, but it is repairable. Insert another couple of auto claims here.

Insurance has advised me it will take them 20-35 business days to sort out what will happen and then I may get a cheque for repairs. I sent my broker to go to war with them because I now have no vehicles, and damage to my house. Also my other half is too tall for the only available rental vehicles, and I'm too short so we're battling with insurance AND a car rental agency because at 6"6' and 5"2' drivers deserve to drive a safe vehicle we can both see out of.

Really 2010, please just end now...


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## MoneyGal

That's a pile of bad luck all at once. Sending you smooth sailing vibes for getting the claims processed quickly and in your favour.


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## the-royal-mail

That's usually how it happens. All or nothing. Good luck.


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## ashby corner

what a crappy pile of luck.

you should write a book!


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## Four Pillars

Good lord - that's a ton of bad luck.

Things can only get better.


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## michika

Thing better be getting better because I'm about done with all this and ready to just sell my house, take a loss, and just rent out some place forever.

So insurance is decidedly unhelpful and trying to screw me out of every penny. After I paid them their multiple deductables they basically tell me on my two write-off cars that I'm getting less for them then the what I paid as a deductable, so I paid them $2,000 in for two cars and I'm getting a cheque for $1,750 for BOTH cars, which means I'm now out two cars AND out $250. I estimate I should have got ~$6,000 for both cars not what insurance is offering/telling me I'm getting. My broker suddenly stopped calling me back when things started going sideways.

The third car that requires repairs is in the $3,000+ range and I'm fighting with insurance over the fact that I don't want to go to their "prefered repair shop". I've booked in our only car now at my shop of choice, and insurance is giving them the run around. 

We lost on the rental car fight, and I can't drive the rental car because I'm too short to see safely out and to shoulder check. At least my other half can drive it to work, but it has crappy tires and rear-wheel drive so its negatively impacting his ability to get to his various job sites. 

I've already replaced my garage door myself because it had to be done urgently to protect a large amount of tools we store in our garage. Then I had the front of the house repaired, and because I now have no money at all it all went on credit cards.

So now, I have no savings, credit card debt, no car, and I'm just not feeling that "Christmas Spirit" everyone keeps telling me to feel. I've pretty much reversed all the hard work I did this year; restoring my cars, and paying off my personal debt.


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## michika

Ugh insurance is still a nightmare. We've now hired a lawyer its just THAT bad. We went from 4 driveable cars to 1, plus house damage and garage damage. Our Broker ended up in the hospital for something unrelated and her replacement is clearly fresh off the farm.

So I compiled all my numbers for 2010 and I started out the year with a net worth of -36,566.80, and at the end I was up to $38,942.86, so its a big swing, but what those numbers don't tell you is that the bulk of that change is property value adjustment, and assets that I used to own, e.g. my cars.

So 2011 has some big goals and thats kind of where I'm leaving it. a) Mortgage re-finance b) pay off my credit card debt (all home repairs from the accidents) and c) don't go insane. I'm just going to try and remain consistent; pay bills, save, etc. and we'll see how it goes from there.


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## rookie

all the best. hang in there and surely good things will come ur way. our best wishes are with you.


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## marina628

Wow I read your bad luck and can't imagine what you have been through ,It could be worst though.One or both of you could have been outside and got hurt by the tree and/or the accident.I am firm believer in positive thinking and this has to be some test for you.Lawsuits can be costly and stressful so I hope you get things resolved quickly.

Marina


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## michika

Still no forward movement on insurance resolutions. We keep getting a new Claim Manager, seems to be the moment we make one step forward with someone at insurance they get re-assigned and we have to start all over again.

The car that was infront of the house is a write off; we're still hagling over what I'm willing to accept. The "write-off" in the garage is a vintage vehicle that I've done a lot of work on. This is where the biggest contention is. I ended up paying out of pocket to repair the third vehicle, I couldn't wait for insurance, and we got tired of fighting with the rental company about a vehicle that only one of us could drive. 

So at this point we have 1 working vehicle, and I've declined the settlement for the others stating that the rate they are offering is too low. We've provided documented proof (black book value, or receipts for parts for my vintage vehicle) that they are low balling. Unfortunately what this seems to keep coming back to is that the Adjustor who came out to look at the damage on the vehicles in the garage knows nothing about cars.

One of those cars I spent quite some time re-building by hand, and I'm taking everything; new engine, transmission, and interior. At the time of the accident I hadn't yet done any work on the exterior and that seems to be all the Adjustor can see. Just because there are a few rust spots, scratches and door dings doesn't make the value of my car nothing. I opened the hood for her, showed her my records for parts, replacements, photos of the process, everything and she still assessed my vehicle for practically nothing. Seriously who sends out an adjustor who knows nothing about cars? The lady just looked at me like I'd grown two heads when I offered her my keys to look at the car with. 

I'm really sad because my vintage vehicle was eyeballed by a trusted friend as having a potential sale value (when the exterior was finished) of around $18-$25K.


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## Guest

michika said:


> I'm really sad because my vintage vehicle was eyeballed by a trusted friend as having a potential sale value (when the exterior was finished) of around $18-$25K.


When a vehicle is written off, the insurance company takes ownership and then sells the vehicle. If it's worth your while, you might arrange with the company to buy the vehicle back ... at a price that's reasonable to you ... say $1 ... and so maybe eventually end up with that vehicle worth around $18-$25K.


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## Four Pillars

michika said:


> Still no forward movement on insurance resolutions. We keep getting a new Claim Manager, seems to be the moment we make one step forward with someone at insurance they get re-assigned and we have to start all over again.
> 
> The car that was infront of the house is a write off; we're still hagling over what I'm willing to accept. The "write-off" in the garage is a vintage vehicle that I've done a lot of work on. This is where the biggest contention is. I ended up paying out of pocket to repair the third vehicle, I couldn't wait for insurance, and we got tired of fighting with the rental company about a vehicle that only one of us could drive.
> 
> So at this point we have 1 working vehicle, and I've declined the settlement for the others stating that the rate they are offering is too low. We've provided documented proof (black book value, or receipts for parts for my vintage vehicle) that they are low balling. Unfortunately what this seems to keep coming back to is that the Adjustor who came out to look at the damage on the vehicles in the garage knows nothing about cars.
> 
> One of those cars I spent quite some time re-building by hand, and I'm taking everything; new engine, transmission, and interior. At the time of the accident I hadn't yet done any work on the exterior and that seems to be all the Adjustor can see. Just because there are a few rust spots, scratches and door dings doesn't make the value of my car nothing. I opened the hood for her, showed her my records for parts, replacements, photos of the process, everything and she still assessed my vehicle for practically nothing. Seriously who sends out an adjustor who knows nothing about cars? The lady just looked at me like I'd grown two heads when I offered her my keys to look at the car with.
> 
> I'm really sad because my vintage vehicle was eyeballed by a trusted friend as having a potential sale value (when the exterior was finished) of around $18-$25K.


I hate to side with the insurance company, but they have to focus on what the car is worth at the point in time it was written off.

The fact that the car might have been worth $20k when finished is irrelevant. The question is how much would it have been worth "as is".

Unfortunately, new parts and labour in a car that doesn't work (or not in good condition) might not add much, if anything to the value.

I've read suggestions that if you have house/car insurance and you have some sort of "special" items - you should talk the insurance company and make sure your special items are covered or get extra insurance for them.

Things like collector cars (vs regular cars) would be on that list. Expensive racing bicycles, rare wine collection etc.

In other words - anything that has an unusually high value.

What kind of car was it?


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## Berubeland

In my friends case, the insurance company did everything they could, and did not pay her even close to market value for a replacement car. They stalled and stalled, refused to pay for a rental car even though they did not pay her the money they owed for the car. 

The car was financed and the company required a proof that the insurance company was insuring the car for the balance of the loan. The insurance company claimed that they had no such record even thought the finance company had the copy of the policy. Then they claimed there was some kind of mistake. 

She is a financial idiot, when she finally did get the check for the car, she had already leased a new car, at this point instead of paying off the finance company she deposited the check made out to both parties in her account. About 6 months later the insurance company bounced the check claiming it was fraud because she was supposed to give the check to the finance company and she didn't. She was making her payments to the finance company but had spent all the money from the insurance and ended up with a huge overdraft. 

The insurance company didn't even pay out 1 red cent for the loss of her vehicle a 2 year old car.They never sent the money to the finance company. 

Of course she never sued them like she should have.


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## Four Pillars

Berubeland said:


> In my friends case, the insurance company did everything they could, and did not pay her even close to market value for a replacement car. They stalled and stalled, refused to pay for a rental car even though they did not pay her the money they owed for the car.
> 
> The car was financed and the company required a proof that the insurance company was insuring the car for the balance of the loan. The insurance company claimed that they had no such record even thought the finance company had the copy of the policy. Then they claimed there was some kind of mistake.
> 
> She is a financial idiot, when she finally did get the check for the car, she had already leased a new car, at this point instead of paying off the finance company she deposited the check made out to both parties in her account. About 6 months later the insurance company bounced the check claiming it was fraud because she was supposed to give the check to the finance company and she didn't. She was making her payments to the finance company but had spent all the money from the insurance and ended up with a huge overdraft.
> 
> The insurance company didn't even pay out 1 red cent for the loss of her vehicle a 2 year old car.They never sent the money to the finance company.
> 
> Of course she never sued them like she should have.


I don't understand - you say the insurance company didn't pay 1 cent, but who gave her the check, which was supposed to go to the leasing company?


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## Berubeland

The insurance company did give her the check but they took it back 6 months later.

See the loan on the car was for $17,000 and the check was for $6000. She would have to continue to pay for the loan any ways so she figured I'll just spend the money and continue my monthly payments.


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## marina628

RACHELLE ,
Your friend made a very big mistake and I can understand the insurance company claiming fraud but she should have pushed for a replacement check and gotten verification from finance company their loan was paid in full.May not be too late even now.
I have my own unfortunate story that occurred April 2010.My husband had a 2010 Shelby GT and we had it stored all winter last year.He took it out on March 30 and he drove it a couple times when April 26 he took it out to drive our daughter to the bank to open up her own savings account. Five minutes from the house a kid tried to beat the light by making a left turn in front of my husband.The kid was in a older sunfire and he hit my husbands car on drivers side.The kid's car nearly fell apart in the intersection and my husband ended up on the side walk about a foot from the bus shelter.All 4 air bags went off ,the car's frame was bent so bad the passenger doors could not open ,the car was filling with smoke from airbags and my husband burned both hands and broke his thumbs from the impact .Thank god they have recovered from their injuries and we now have the 2011 version of the car to replace the old one.
This car was more than a car for us ,it was a car we dreamed about for years and knew we will keep it for years.We took it from Ford and went and did a custom paint job on it the first week ,We had/have custom stitched interior .Every time we spent a dime on these cars we sent a copy of the bill to State Farm Insurance.The 2011 cost a bit more than the 2010 as it came with different engine options and a rear camera but the insurance paid full invoice of the car for us plus full cost of all custom work. The other guy's insurance paid our deductible because the guy admitted fault.
The guy's car was worth $500 but I bet it was worth more to him ,they all walked away although both cars were written off.My husband was upset about his car but the first thing he did was go to driver of other car and said to him that he was lucky he drove the mustang ,He was going to drive the F-250 but at last minute he thought about taking the cover off mustang and driving it.Needless to say the kid would be dead if my husband drove his truck that day.
So please notify your insurance company where you have high valued cars and insure them as such.My brother in law has a 1968 mustang he purchased for $10,000 years ago and has invested $25,000 into it ,he has a special insurance for the car.There are many car clubs out there and these guys would be best to discuss insurance rates with.

Marina


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## michika

rikk said:


> When a vehicle is written off, the insurance company takes ownership and then sells the vehicle. If it's worth your while, you might arrange with the company to buy the vehicle back ... at a price that's reasonable to you ... say $1 ... and so maybe eventually end up with that vehicle worth around $18-$25K.


The value of the car minus the exterior repairs is around $16.5K. The car runs great, it just doesn't look as hot as it sounds and runs. It had been appraised by a recognized vehicle appraiser about 3 months before this occured. For the record its a vintage VW classic car. I am meticulous about maintaining a collection and record of changes, receipts, photos, etc. of the build process. I can prove the value of car which was a 1967 classic. 

I have not accepted any deals from insurance though, so they have no ownership yet in the damaged vehilcles. We're still haggling over a price as I am unwilling to accept a so blatently unfair settlement.

However now I have another issue. I still do not have a vehicle to drive. It takes on average three weeks and 12-15 follow up calls/emails on my part to get in contact with our insurance company. I am now having to look at financing/purchasing yet another car from my own money above and beyond just so I can get around and get on with my life. I wish I could comprehend exactly why this is taking so long, why the constant changes in claims managers, and why nobody competant has been assigned to my case. My lawyer has begun asking us if we would like to take things one step further with insurance.

To date I've paid for the repairs on our damaged, but driveable car, $3,800, had to pay for the rental car we had briefly, which was supposed to be covered by insurance, $1,200 there, and then the damage to the garage, $2,500 in material, and then a 3 course meal and liquor for labour, and then repairs to the house. I have yet to see a dime from insurance even after I promptly paid my deductables in the amound of $3,000. I am also coming up on my last payment for the year, $500 is the remaining balance owing for policies on all cars, only one of which we can drive.

Insurance said to me when this first happened: 1) That they will return my deductables with my settlement cheque as they shouldn't have collected them to begin with, 2) That they will pay for the damages on my drivable car, 3) That they will pay fair value for my written off cars (one 99, one 67) 4) they will pay for my rental car, 5) they will pay for the clean up services we had to have come in to deal with some of the damage restoration and 6) that this will be solved in about a months time.

I have yet to see a dime. I have been patient, respectful, and very forthcoming with receipts, photos, e-mails, and appraisal records on the damaged goods. Insurance is terrible. This is the second claim I've ever had in my life, and it has been a negative experience through and through.


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## marina628

If the insurance accepted the appraisal and insured it as such they should be writing that check to cover the car!Don't settle on that one for sure!


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## petea4

marina628 said:


> If the insurance accepted the appraisal and insured it as such they should be writing that check to cover the car!Don't settle on that one for sure!


You can have an appraisal for $20K, and the insurance company will insure it for book value. If you want to insure it for the appraised value, or a value you both agree on, it needs to be specified on another form. I think it's called a 19A, can't remember.

EDIT found it: http://www.vintagecarconnection.com/opcf_19a_definition.htm

Other options are Silver Wheels, or Custom Wheels to insure hobby cars.


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## iherald

petea4 said:


> You can have an appraisal for $20K, and the insurance company will insure it for book value. If you want to insure it for the appraised value, or a value you both agree on, it needs to be specified on another form. I think it's called a 19A, can't remember.
> 
> EDIT found it: http://www.vintagecarconnection.com/opcf_19a_definition.htm
> 
> Other options are Silver Wheels, or Custom Wheels to insure hobby cars.


Your insurance policy states the car is insured to $X or current value, whichever is less. I have done a few cases where the guy said his car was worth $70,000 and put that on the insurance, but we showed that the true value was $20,000 and that's what the insurance company paid.

As described above, you can have a policy where the value is agreed too, but it's pretty expensive and many insurance companies don't offer it.


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## michika

Bit of an update.

I think I used the wrong terms when I was talking about appraisal of the 67. The car was appraised and the appraisal value was sent to insurance which is what the car was insured for. The '67 was insured for the nearly the appraised value, I think the difference was like $500 give or take.

We had to take this further with our lawyer, but in the end insurance smartened up and paid us the full amounts the vehicles were appraised for, including the vintage 67. Insurance claims our file was in many parts and assigned to multiple people hence the confusion. I don't buy it, we caught them in lie after lie after lie and its all on paper and in emails. I'm out about $2,500 total in personal costs; legal, etc. The time and aggrivation was not worth it. 

The thing that really gets me about this whole thing is that from the start I was upfront with my paperwork. I had all the documents showing values, etc. and even though I could prove it all insurance still felt the need to fight me on every little thing; rental cars, replacement landscaping, paint colour, etc. I would really like to know where insurance companies get off using such a heavy handed approach.


So next up in my financial journey - new insurance provider, mortgage re-finance, vacation planning/saving, and then maybe I'll kick back and cross off a few 2011 goals I've reached.


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