# Banks Acting Too Much Like Big Brother



## TomF (Jul 26, 2011)

Is it just me, or are banks becoming more onerous to deal with?

Depending what teller you happen to get, they are becoming more invasive about the minutiae of your banking.

I have various services at several banks: RRSPs, day-to-day banking, Invest Direct, etc.
It was bad enough the HSBC nickeled and dimed me with ever-increasing service charges on everything, so I severely cut back on my business with them.

Then we had the introduction of FATCA, whereby the onus is on us to prove we are not American citizens (relating to American investments.) I have some US Dollar mutual funds with a couple discount brokers, and they claim to need a bunch of paperwork or have a 30% withholding tax applied to gains on American investments.

Now they want to document every trivial transaction on my profile.
Seriously.
My kids often need change for school fundraisers, field trips, sports, etc. so I take the $20 bills dispensed from the ATM to the teller to ask for two tens.
At the Royal Bank, they asked for my client card so they could attach the transaction to my profile.
At the CIBC, they asked for my driver's license. It is cash for cash; it should be a 15 second transaction. But I was told there is a new anti money-laundering in effect for all cash transactions. For $20!?!?!

Any one else experience this nonsense? 

It is ridiculous that they should make a trivial transaction into a hassle. These increasing "Big Brother" policies really make me angry. The more they try to look over my shoulder all the time, the more determined I become to get away from them. What is becoming of this country?

</rant>


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Since you have to go to the teller anyway, why not just get the change via a withdrawl from your account at the counter, tell them you need it in 10's, fives, coins whatever? We've had no hassle doing that at our TD branch.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Grocery stores are also good for asking for change (in reasonable amounts).


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

doing all your banking at a small branch where they get to know you works wonders ...

though i get your point, this is only going to get worse until there is maybe a backlash


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There is a growing push towards "cashless" societies. The government likes it because they can trace money and collect all taxes. Corporations and banks like it for enhanced ability to mine private data, plus it alleviates their liquidity risk as they don't have to worry about producing real cash.

Look at places like France, where they've outlawed cash transactions over 1,000 euros! Insanity.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but if you're seeing this kind of behaviour from tellers, they are probably filing suspicion reports about you to FINTRAC. Tellers are supposed to file reports for any cash transaction they find suspicious.

Your body language and demeanour can help the tellers feel at ease. I don't know what else to suggest, other than sticking to the ATM whenever possible. Dealing with tellers for cash transactions is dangerous because the FINTRAC reports will pile up on you. I don't think there is any way to audit or verify your FINTRAC file, but unfortunately this can have big impacts on your life, including your likelihood of getting audited by the CRA and even your experience at the border
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fintrac-collecting-too-much-info-on-innocent-canadians-1.2224595



> Officials say Canadians have no way of knowing if they have erroneously landed in this database of suspected terrorists and money launderers — and, by law, files cannot be erased for at least 10 years.


fatcat's suggestion is also good, to bank at a small branch. If tellers recognize you and are comfortable they are less likely to file a suspicious activity report with FINTRAC.

Personally I'd like Canada to fix this FINTRAC insanity. It's like the no-fly list or something... opaque & unverifiable. You and I all have FINTRAC files and it's impeding on our rights.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

TomF said:


> ...
> Then we had the introduction of FATCA, whereby the onus is on us to prove we are not American citizens (relating to American investments.) I have some US Dollar mutual funds with a couple discount brokers, and they claim to need a bunch of paperwork or have a 30% withholding tax applied to gains on American investments.
> 
> ...


FATCA is not the fault of the Canadian banks - it is US law. If it's too much trouble, sell your US mutual funds, and write a complaint to the US ambassador that it is too much of a pain in the *** for Canadians to invest in the US market.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^

+1 ... though if one looks into FATCA, simply having a green card triggers the reporting so instead of "prove one is not a US citizen", it is more like "prove one is not a US person as defined by FATCA".

http://www.taxindiainternational.com/columnDesc.php?qwer43fcxzt=MjE=
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...us-green-card-holders-also-screwed-fatca.html


Cheers


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

OhGreatGuru said:


> FATCA is not the fault of the Canadian banks - it is US law. If it's too much trouble, sell your US mutual funds, and write a complaint to the US ambassador that it is too much of a pain in the *** for Canadians to invest in the US market.


Tell that to my husband's co-worker. He went into the bank because he had to convert his RRSP to a RIF. No US investments, not a US citizen, not a "US person", no US address. He was required to "prove" he had no US connections. How the hell do you prove a negative. He was not a happy camper.


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Personally I'd like Canada to fix this FINTRAC insanity. It's like the no-fly list or something... opaque & unverifiable. You and I all have FINTRAC files and it's impeding on our rights.


I agree its the Gov't push. Why would the Banks want to do extra work. As a matter of interest how does FINTRAC impede one's rights? I understand they are gathering this info and in effect lurking in the background.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

OhGreatGuru said:


> FATCA is not the fault of the Canadian banks - it is US law. If it's too much trouble, sell your US mutual funds, and write a complaint to the US ambassador that it is too much of a pain in the *** for Canadians to invest in the US market.


But FATCA is against Canadian Chapter of Rights! But who cares?! Btw, not all countries complying to FATCA


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