# Have you ever, or are you thinking now, of selling your primary residence and rent?



## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

I have only owned three homes - 1 with my first wife for 5 years and we ended up buying when the market was going down, but unfortunately it kept going down so we sold it for less than we paid for it, and the 2nd and 3rd ones with my current wife (and my last!). When I met my wife, she had already put a deposit down on a townhome for herself and her 2 children. Thus, when I came into the picture, we realized it would be nice to have the space when all of our kids were with us so we bought a much larger home 13 years ago.

We know we will be moving, and probably next year when my wife retires. There have been some high level discussions about buying our 2nd last home (the last home will probably be a small condo or maybe we just give that idea up and rent an apartment). But, we have also thought it would be nice, for awhile, to rent a condo in downtown TO (just for the different lifestyle while we are still young at heart) or maybe elsewhere in the GTA with lakeviews, if not lakefront. That would also free up a lot of capital for additional investing.

Right now, we are mortgage free and our investment portfolio is about the same value as our home. Our expenses, thus, for home ownership are relatively modest and renting would actually increase that. However, I do have confidence that strategic market investing can produce better after tax returns than continued home ownership. We could also think about renting in an area that would be where we would like to settle down - so try the area before committing to a home purchase there.

A condo would mean we would have to put probably half our furniture/belongings into storage and probably would not be in an area where we would like to settle - it would be all about the access to the vibrancy and excitement of being immersed in the big city. It would also make it easier to leave for a month and spend time in someplace a lot warmer during the harshest winter period.

If we rent a house, then it would most likely be further from the downtown core than where we live now and may not necessarily be in a city that we think could be our home for the next 20 years.

I don't know how difficult it might be to find someone willing to rent with us since we would be unemployed without any pensions whatsoever, even though we would have a better than average NW.

So, I'm posting this to understand if anyone else has done, or is considering this, and what your impressions were and possible issues that may crop up. I haven't articulated all of what we have discussed or factoring into this decision, but there may be other points of which we are unaware.


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

Well ... In 1993 I bought and refurbished an older house and added an addition, the idea being this would be our retirement home down the road. So here we are down the road accepting an offer we just can't refuse. Was a very tough decision emotionally but the rationale is we'll be going through the emotional part eventually anyway. Ok, back on topic ... we've been through the get another house? rent? condo? where? and round and round. Seems we like Ottawa, we're going for an older well funded 2 or 3 bedroom apartment condo ... pool, underground parking, no stairs, an area we like ... less than $300K, less than $1K/month fees plus taxes ... lock and go ... and not a big loss or headache when or should we decide to sell. My philosophy ... never accept less than what you have ... especially when it comes to quality of life.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I have never considered renting and selling my primary residence. I often run scenarios of selling and moving out into the Fraser Valley and have some land and so on but it won't fit our lifestyle at this point. For me the time to sell has always just presented itself and it was never forced.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't think I would ever sell my primary residence and rent. I consider my home as also an investment. I did lose money on one place that I had for 7 yrs and rented but the others have increased in value. The only thing you can be certain of is that the return on investment renting will be a loss.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I have thought about it, but rejected the idea for a number of reasons, including:

1. I live in a well managed condo with moderate fees and no mortgage, and I couldn't find a comparable place to rent without spending a lot more on housing than I do now. 
2. The net proceeds of selling my home would not produce materially significant incremental investment returns even in a strong market. That reflects the fact that my home accounts for only about 8% of my net worth. In other words, I am not house poor. 
3. I don't want to be forced to move if my landlord decides to move in. 

YMMV, especially if you want to downsize.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

We are currently in the same situation as the OP.
Retired, kid living in basement but about to move out.
Looking at options, rent, buy condo, buy smaller house, buy lake property.etc etc
If we sell house say for net of 550,000. This could be invested in dividend paying stocks yeilding say 3% so 15,000+ income plus possible gains on stocks. 
Current basic expenses on house between taxes, utilities, would be around 700 month. This does not include ongoing repairs and maintenance. Plus cost for yard care if we travel.
700*12=8400 plus the new income of 15,000=23,000 for rent.
I can rent a nice condo in Calgary for 1200 to 1500 a month all in. So say 18,000. So I would be ahead of the game and no repairs and yard work. Also allows us to easily up and move to another town.
But I love the handiman, gardening, yard stuff. So if we sell and downsize to small house for 280,000 we bank some money and get the psychic benefits of home ownership etc.
Down the road we could sell the smaller house and buy a small condo for the same price when unable to look after yard.

We looked at a few condos. Wanted a concrete building with some amenities- close to walking trails etc. One was perfect, on the bow river, on a park. Small building but decent amenities.
Almost made an offer. A few weeks later we learned there was going to be a special assessment for 40,000+ per unit to cover building envelope issues. I would have been on the hook for that.
I will not store extra possessions. Those the kid does not want will be sold or given away.
So no decisions yet.
Have sufficient pensions, investments we can easily stay in existing house but would rather make decision now. The possibility of a severe decline in house prices weighs in the back of my mind but I know that is a fools game.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

A dilemma for empty nesters in general, and for retirees specifically. I (68 yrs old) have been ready for a downsized, e.g. 1800 sq ft condo for some time, but my "new" wifey is having too much fun in a 3800 sq ft monster with pool. I hate the ongoing maintenance and operating expenses, and concerns when we travel for extended periods, but I am not going to win this one for some years to come. Ultimately though, maybe 5-10 years from now, we will downsize to that condo (probably new, or next to new), and lastly when health determines it is time (5-10 years after that), selling that condo and moving to a senior's rental independent apartment complex. That is probably overly optimistic health wise and things will change faster than that.

We won't need to downsize to free up capital as we have plenty to live comfortably, but that is the best option for those who could use more capital to enjoy their senior years better. Ultimately for me specifically, I want to unload the burdens of home ownership to at least a condo strata and given the right circumstances, even to a rental unit, e.g. renting someone else's investment condo long term. Lock and leave... and just cutting a rent cheque becomes more attractive each year.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Altared what about a townhouse instead with a bit of a yard?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

new dog said:


> Altared what about a townhouse instead with a bit of a yard?


I'd prefer a townhouse with an attached garage (2 car if possible) but ultimately common sense tells us that a prerequisite is no stairs....since stairs get more difficult with age and wifey already has some joint issues. What we move too must be a bungalow (one level). We currently live in a ranch with walkout basement. Technically we don't ever have to go to the lower level except to deal with the cat box or go to the pool. The downstairs with 3BR is strictly for guests/family.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Yeah that is what I might do in the future and that is get a one level townhouse with a garage and a small yard. I also want to make sure there are enough units in the complex otherwise maintenance fees can get very high.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Early 40s now and not yet mortgage free, but working on it. I like living where we do but my wife wants to move, in the coming years. I don't want to but I won't win this battle like AR either 

We own a 1,800 sq. ft. bungalow just outside the city. 0.5 acre. Nice spot but I suspect we could and will downsize since no kids, just cats.

Unfortunately my wife has a new found appreciation of math (since reading my blog) and realizes conservatively our home sale of $600K, then invested, should yield at least $2,400 per month for a nice rental unit for life.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Time for a beer....


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

rikk2 said:


> Well ... In 1993 I bought and refurbished an older house and added an addition, the idea being this would be our retirement home down the road. So here we are down the road accepting an offer we just can't refuse. Was a very tough decision emotionally but the rationale is we'll be going through the emotional part eventually anyway. Ok, back on topic ... we've been through the get another house? rent? condo? where? and round and round. Seems we like Ottawa, we're going for an older well funded 2 or 3 bedroom apartment condo ... pool, underground parking, no stairs, an area we like ... less than $300K, less than $1K/month fees plus taxes ... lock and go ... and not a big loss or headache when or should we decide to sell. My philosophy ... never accept less than what you have ... especially when it comes to quality of life.


What was the emotional weight for selling up and moving on? I don't think of my wife as very sentimental yet she says she will be sad to leave. Now, until you have something specific to look forward to, I can understand the challenge of leaving it behind.

I'm thinking that when we are in our 70's, we probably would want a low maintenance living arrangement - that will be the last choice we have to make to put a roof over our heads.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

new dog said:


> I have never considered renting and selling my primary residence. I often run scenarios of selling and moving out into the Fraser Valley and have some land and so on but it won't fit our lifestyle at this point. For me the time to sell has always just presented itself and it was never forced.


Marital breakdown forced the sale of my first home. Merging families forced the sale of my second home. When my wife retires and we finally have the last child strong enough to afford her own place , that will allow us to downsize.

We are fortunate that living in the GTA affords us a lot of opportunities to move in lower cost areas yet stay within 90 minutes of all of our children.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

Mechanic said:


> I don't think I would ever sell my primary residence and rent. I consider my home as also an investment. I did lose money on one place that I had for 7 yrs and rented but the others have increased in value. The only thing you can be certain of is that the return on investment renting will be a loss.


I disagree that in all cases you can be certain that renting is throwing money away vs. owning a home. My ex wife and I learned that from our first home.

Of course, buying the home we now live in has greatly increased our NW and when we finally realize those gains, it will be tax free. However, I'm confident I can continue to do better with investing than owning a home. We are lucky we can do both.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

heyjude said:


> I have thought about it, but rejected the idea for a number of reasons, including:
> 
> 1. I live in a well managed condo with moderate fees and no mortgage, and I couldn't find a comparable place to rent without spending a lot more on housing than I do now.
> 2. The net proceeds of selling my home would not produce materially significant incremental investment returns even in a strong market. That reflects the fact that my home accounts for only about 8% of my net worth. In other words, I am not house poor.
> ...


I find your reasoning quite sound and if we were in your position we likely would follow the same course as you have.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

twa2w said:


> We are currently in the same situation as the OP.
> Retired, kid living in basement but about to move out.
> Looking at options, rent, buy condo, buy smaller house, buy lake property.etc etc
> If we sell house say for net of 550,000. This could be invested in dividend paying stocks yeilding say 3% so 15,000+ income plus possible gains on stocks.
> ...


The biggest motivation I have to rent for a few years would be to help our kids now to jumpstart their journey to financial independence. They live in the GTA and, while none of them have a negative NW, it's not much above zero and the combined incomes of the three are less than $120k. 

On their own, it would be a great challenge for any of them to make great strides financially. The youngest is in the best shape and could barely afford her own place without a roommate.

I know that we will be able to help them down the road, but if we could find a way sooner rather than later, it would produce the desired result with less effort and less time.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> A dilemma for empty nesters in general, and for retirees specifically. I (68 yrs old) have been ready for a downsized, e.g. 1800 sq ft condo for some time, but my "new" wifey is having too much fun in a 3800 sq ft monster with pool. I hate the ongoing maintenance and operating expenses, and concerns when we travel for extended periods, but I am not going to win this one for some years to come. Ultimately though, maybe 5-10 years from now, we will downsize to that condo (probably new, or next to new), and lastly when health determines it is time (5-10 years after that), selling that condo and moving to a senior's rental independent apartment complex. That is probably overly optimistic health wise and things will change faster than that.
> 
> We won't need to downsize to free up capital as we have plenty to live comfortably, but that is the best option for those who could use more capital to enjoy their senior years better. Ultimately for me specifically, I want to unload the burdens of home ownership to at least a condo strata and given the right circumstances, even to a rental unit, e.g. renting someone else's investment condo long term. Lock and leave... and just cutting a rent cheque becomes more attractive each year.


Wow! At least my wife agrees that, as much as she loves our 2900 sq ft house on a postage stamp sized lot, it will be too big for our needs. A house as large as yours AND with a pool? You'd need to be retired to keep that running smoothly.

But, maybe by the time we get into our late 60's, we will have an army of robots mowing lawns, shovelling snow, washing windows and mopping floors. And, guarding our home when we vacation in warmer climates for the winter.

I calculate that the seven figures in equity we have in our paid off home can generate more after tax gains with strategic investing in spite of having to rent, than it will by leaving it to appreciate as is, over the next five years.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> Early 40s now and not yet mortgage free, but working on it. I like living where we do but my wife wants to move, in the coming years. I don't want to but I won't win this battle like AR either
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well if she reads your blog, then maybe you can plant ideas in her subconscious with carefully chosen articles that favour staying vs. the costs and risks of moving? 

My wife and I recently spent a weekend at Blue mountain and we fell in love with a neighborhood just a few minutes away from The Village. I think that's the kind of trip you need to avoid with your wife - anything that tempts her to leave where you are now only loosens your grip.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

janus10 said:


> Marital breakdown forced the sale of my first home. Merging families forced the sale of my second home. When my wife retires and we finally have the last child strong enough to afford her own place , that will allow us to downsize.
> 
> We are fortunate that living in the GTA affords us a lot of opportunities to move in lower cost areas yet stay within 90 minutes of all of our children.


To me those are reasons to sell. When I used the word forced I was thinking in terms of where you force it to happen. A good example is just cashing it in like a stock that has gone up and or timing the market, that sort of thing. These forced for money sales could really bite you if you have a family and need a home to live in. I had plenty of opportunity to have done this over the years and rented or something and would have really regretted it. Although prices could drop substantially in the future, I really don't care because I have had low mortgage payments for many years or no mortgage payments in recent years instead of paying rent.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

janus10 said:


> Wow! At least my wife agrees that, as much as she loves our 2900 sq ft house on a postage stamp sized lot, it will be too big for our needs. A house as large as yours AND with a pool? You'd need to be retired to keep that running smoothly.


Tell me about it....:dread: That said, it keeps the kids and grandkids visiting for cheap accommodation in the summer...and keeps them occupied. The reason...she says, I shouldn't complain. LOL


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

The


AltaRed said:


> Tell me about it....:dread: That said, it keeps the kids and grandkids visiting for cheap accommodation in the summer...and keeps them occupied. The reason...she says, I shouldn't complain. LOL


I live in your area and have many friends with large houses with pools "for the grandkids". One couple owns and maintains such a home even though their adult children are in their early 20s with no immediate intentions of "settling down". I suspect that by the time grandkids arrive, this couple may be too old and infirm to enjoy their own McMansion! 

Another phenomenon that I see here is the yearly summer onslaught of visitors who expect to be fed, watered and entertained at the hosts' expense. A lot of this burden falls on the woman of the house. Many of my golfing friends rush home, or cancel their rounds, to change the beds and clean the house before the arrival of the next guests. After a couple of years of continuous summer hosting, they are learning to say "no".


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Judging from watching a lot of tenants over the years, I think it all depends on your personality. There are a lot of benefits to renting, especially at your age...

1) mobility. If you want to move, travel, etc. It's very easy to leave. Put things in storage and travel. No house to worry about, no expenses to silently double the cost (mortgage, insurance, taxes, maintenance, etc.) of travelling. 

2) downsizing. At your age, this may be forced on you quite unexpectedly. What if one of you needs to go into a seniors home, hospital, etc. What if you have mobility access needs, etc. A house may be hard to sell, may be in a down market, may cost a lot to modify, etc.

3) no more "dead money". Many people feel their home is their best investment, then die having never realized the benefits of the money. Sure they may be "millionaires", but you can't really touch that money as it's all locked up in the house. Your beneficiaries will certainly be happy since they're the ones who'll spend the fruits of your labour...while locking up their own net worth for their kids. Great way to transfer wealth through the generations.

4) earning power. On the back of the last point, real estate has had a strong run over the past 20-25 years. The chances of it continuing in the long run seem slim to me, especially if interest rates increase. If the market remains flat, or corrects, your assets could quickly start to disappear. Not all markets are tied together though, as real estate corrects, other investments which grow will probably be around so you have an opportunity to grow your money. 

Now, there are more reasons I could come up with but, to view the flip side, I'd point out:

1) mobility - most people never move very often. True, the typical Canadian moves every 7 years on average, but many of my tenants who say they're only going to stay for a year, tend to wind up staying a lot longer.

2) downsizing is rarely an option people do willingly as they get older, most of them rarely realize that they've passed the point where they should have. They are comfortable emotionally, if not physically, where they are and are often reluctant to move until they are forced to.

3/4) dead money. For the majority of people, the only reason they have a net worth is they were forced to save it in hints that were illiquid like their homes. They wouldn't know how to "invest" it in anything else, so they'd probably quickly spend it rather than grow it.

Having said all this, and even having done the math to show how much better off I could be if I didn't own, I personally still chose to own. Of course, my particular choice of homes wouldn't be easy to rent, especially in the chosen location, but that's not really the reason for my decision. There is something emotionally statisfying and comforting about owning your own place.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Janus, I'll be doing this next month but for a family member. The house I bought for them to live in several years ago is too much for them to maintain now and I live far from it. 
We'll try to find an apt, get cleaning in every 2 weeks or so, and I'll clean up and sell the house. It remains to be seen how much of the capital I'll have to earmark to supplement their abilty to cover the rent. 
Clearly living in the house has been cheaper on a monthly basis while the capital (house) has appreciated, but that is east of Toronto and not necessarily the case everywhere (e.g. just sold a house we had in S. AB for 8 yrs at essentially cost).

Perhaps a smaller, accessable, low maintenance house might be worth considering? 

They are not easy to find though. I've come to realize that there are no freehold, standalone houses built that allow seniors to easily transition as mobilty and maintenance become an issue over the longer term (ages 70's through 80's and possibly beyond). I.e. easy access at front and to rear yard without steps, large doorways and washroom/kitchen area that would allow for a walker or wheelchair, laundry on same level, etc. 
Another consideration wherever one is, is whether there is the need for room if family to come and stay from out of town.
So you are usually faced with trying to renovate/retrofit an existing home. How easy that is should be considered when you shop for a home in your senior years. Of course any place you rent outside of actual senior's apts will face the same challenges.

I expect senior assistance (e.g. CCAC - now LHIN in Ont) will continue to favour home care because it is less costly than a LTCH, but most home's are not well-suited to seniors.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

heyjude said:


> Another phenomenon that I see here is the yearly summer onslaught of visitors who expect to be fed, watered and entertained at the hosts' expense. A lot of this burden falls on the woman of the house. Many of my golfing friends rush home, or cancel their rounds, to change the beds and clean the house before the arrival of the next guests. After a couple of years of continuous summer hosting, they are learning to say "no".


Indeed...the discussion amongst many of us around here. We've been here 5 years now and the vast majority of our guests (not family) do not expect to be fed, watered and entertained 'much'. Indeed, they often buy us lunch or dinner out and contribute to the wine and beer, etc. Still, it is a burden to have the house clean and ready and the pantry stocked pretty good. That said, our deal is that since wifey likes to entertain (for the most part), she knows she is the one that has to take the lead (cause I'd point most of them to the nearest hotel or B&B). Most of them only stay a few nights as part of their travels elsewhere. Never had anyone stay more than 3 nights.

As for family, that is a bigger burden cause they are here typically for 5-12 days, but they too pitch in doing grocery runs AND making meals. Indeed, wifey often says -- there is the kitchen...have at it. They are pretty considerate in that they know they are getting free accomodation in vacation peak season. The pool does help quite a bit as guests/famly can spend a whole afternoon out there and since they have the rund of the lower level, we get to do what we wish if we want too. Still, this can get old fast and I can see us declining more often than not in a few years.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

I prefer owning and will continue to do so as long as health and finances allow me to reasonably continue. I like the control of owning, the freedom to do what I want and not worrying that a landlord will want to end the lease. Long-term I think that owning should be better financially, since with renting there is a landlord taking profits (although real estate can have long cycles, getting out of sync so sometimes renting is financially better). And that analysis is ignoring the possibility of investing the money that otherwise would be in a home. I too would avoid monster homes with associated taxes and other costs, preferring comfortable but not too big. Anyway I prefer owning

Also in a lot of communities, rental apartments, and especially houses tend to be lower end places. Many, perhaps most rental condos are small entry level places that landlords like because they command more rent $ per sq.ft. and per dollar invested. 

Re renting a condo in downtown TO for a trial run. Downtown is amazing. Arts, culture, entertainment, unique stores, restaurants and bars and great public transportation. On the other hand it is dirty, noisy, crowded, traffic is horrible and there is a large cross section of very unique and eclectic individuals (i.e. wierdos). I worked a 10 minute walk from home which was great. Spend some time in your target downtown areas at different times, especially Thursday/Friday/Saturday from late afternoon to early morning. Some areas are incredibly busy and noisy. Consider renting a room for a weekend at a hotel like the Chelsea, Hyatt on King or Le Germain. Also think about how much space you could afford in a condo, and what it would be like living in a typical condo with a 10 x 20 living/dining room, galley kitchen, 2 small bedrooms and a 4' x 8' storage locker. It's not for everyone. I know a lot of people that moved back to the burbs after a year or 2.

There were some articles in the Globe and Mail a couple years ago about a woman that moved from a 'burban house to a city condo, did not like it and moved back. She took a lot of flack for bad planning, but was brave to share her experience in detail.

In retirement I am the opposite of a lot of people, planning a "reverse downsizing" moving from a 2 BR condo to a house. I want more space to putter around, have visitors, easier parking, BBQing, a garage to keep my various bikes, kayak, golf clubs, tent, tools, cooler etc. A multi-level house is a bit of a gamble depending on health and can be a problem for anyone with arthritis, joint problems or heart / respiratory issues. My mother lived in a 3-level backsplit until she was 87 without problems. And I think in the absence of mobility issues, the effort associated with yard care, house cleaning, walking stairs are small things that contribute to keeping fit.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I think a lot of retirees downsizing from a big house in the burbs to a downtown condo would pick something substantial enough, e.g. 1500+ sq ft, to make it feel like a home. Our plan, if it comes to pass, would be to have a 3 bedroom 1800 sq ft condo in Kelowna's Mission district with a full view of the lake. Costly yes, but can use all the money the house brings for that. 

But that is off-topic to the buy vs rent discussion. The big house next door to us has been a rental for about 7 years since the owners have been ex-pats for that length of time. The current tenants love being able to rent a big house with a pool and have rented houses for at least 15 years I think... first Edmonton, then White Rock, now West Kelowna. They like it that way since they get to do what they want and have nothing to worry about with respect to property maintenance, etc. 

I could rent that house for the money they pay, eliminate my own ownership costs, invest the capital, and still have investment income (assuming 4% yield) left over from the capital that would be deployed in the markets. A pretty sweet deal.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

GreatLaker said:


> ... And I think in the absence of mobility issues, the effort associated with yard care, house cleaning, walking stairs are small things that contribute to keeping fit.


VERY important point. My experience with parents has been that it is a fine line between staying active and exposing yourself to fall risk/injury. But you definately want to keep as active as possible. 

"If you don't use it, you lose it" applies in spades to mobility in your senior years.


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> VERY important point. My experience with parents has been that it is a fine line between staying active and exposing yourself to fall risk/injury. But you definately want to keep as active as possible.
> 
> "If you don't use it, you lose it" applies in spades to mobility in your senior years.


Then there are the guys like me ... I'm now at the point where stairs are painful ... new to me starting this past winter. Was taking naproxen that worked ok until the stomach couldn't take it anymore. This morning I did some minor work in the house, down to the basement to get some stuff, back up, do some work, down to cut a few more pieces, back up, do some more work, clean up, put the tools back in the basement. I still look forward to working out ... some weights, the bike ... but that's on my own terms. I'm looking forward to a move to an apartment style condo (and yes, I'm one of the guys that only a year ago was saying condo's are crap, get a house, ...) and the year round pool for swimming when I feel like it, and exercise room with weights and a stair master for when I feel like it ... and walking paths just out the door. My wife acknowledges, as do I, that I just don't enjoy puttering (dry walling, painting, building stuff, fixing stuff, ... ) around a house anymore ... it's become a downhill battle. So to maintain and at this point actually improve my quality of life it'll be an apartment condo. 

A older neighbor from the next block went by on his "scooter" a few days ago ... have you sold yet he asked, half joking ... almost I said ... the offer's been signed. Well I'm not selling he says ... even though we can hardly get out onto the main street in his car with all the traffic he says ... and it's getting worse every day ... and what with that new condo going up it'll just get worse ... we turned the dining room on the main floor into a bedroom for me, every things handy for me he says. And I'm thinking to myself geez, with the offers you've had you could be in a new place, in a quiet location, $$s for travel ... instead of that dark old house ... bunker mentality I guess ... not for me.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

rikk2 said:


> ........ I'm looking forward to a move to an apartment style condo (and yes, I'm one of the guys that only a year ago was saying condo's are crap, get a house, ...) and the year round pool for swimming when I feel like it, and exercise room with weights and a stair master for when I feel like it ... and walking paths just out the door. My wife acknowledges, as do I, that I just don't enjoy puttering around house anymore ... a downhill battle. So to maintain and at this point actually improve my quality of life it'll be an apartment condo.....
> 
> ...... And I'm thinking to myself geez, you could be in a new place, in a quieter location, $$ for travel ... instead of that dark old house ... bunker mentality I guess ... not for me....


Gee, it shows how health plays a huge role in what we see as the best place to live as we age. I'm still in the camp that I love my house, and all it offers in my retirement to entertain me, and how I can't imagine being confined in some horrible apartment condo with nothing to do, you may as well shoot me if I had to do that. But I guess if I didn't have the health to do all the things I enjoy now by owning my home, I may have a different view as rickk2 explains above. For me, I see a move to a rented small condo as a death knell.

ltr


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

^ I've always had a project on the go, I really enjoyed it, it'll be a sad day when we leave ... but there are others things to do, especially now that both my wife and I are retired, like that self-drive tour of New Zealand we have in mind. Just saying, there was no way we could turn down that latest offer especially considering the market uncertainty going forward ... and ... we won't be in that small condo all that much ... lock and go :encouragement:


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

JAG - a lot of great points there. The idea of not just downsizing, but in fact renting for a few years, is really driven by how we can help our kids in the near term, rather than wait. When I compare my daughter at her age to where I was at the same age, we both were 1 year out of university into our first jobs. In non inflation adjusted dollars I earned half of what she did, yet had a brand new car, my own 1 bedroom apartment, no debts and was probably saving 40%+ of my net income. She, OTOH, has a 6 year old vehicle, shares a 2 bedroom apt with her mom (and pays more than her mom), about $10k more OSAP debt than is in her TFSA, and is probably saving 10% of her net income (after company RRSP contributions which I didn't have). The other children (from my wife's previous marriage) are in worse shape.

Ltr - we used to have a gentleman live next to us in a 2+1 split level. He was in his early 80's, suffered from dementia, but otherwise tried to stay active in his garden. Well, his family became very concerned when he had a few incidences and decided he needed to be moved to an assisted living centre so that he would have his own apartment, but someone would take care of some of the basic needs and they wouldn't worry about forgot food on the stove. He seemed to wither away quite quickly once so much of his daily routine and responsibilities were taken away.
OMO - we absolutely are well enough to maintain our home. Especially now that I do most of the housework as my wife still wants to work. We are now saying out loud that she should be planning on retiring no later than Apr 2018. It's all about releasing the large gain in house equity in order to grow capital even faster. It's not even about my belief that the house price increases will start to taper down to more reasonable annual amounts.

heyjude and Altared - ok. Point well taken. NO POOL in next house but if we rent an apartment or condo, then it will be fine. Or we buy shares in beverage, snack and pizza companies to help offset the cost of having family and friends stay over.

GreatLaker - even just the simple fact that we have two cars would make it somewhat a wasted expense to try and rent a condo downtown TO. First, who would have two parking spaces and 2, why would we need 1 car, let alone 2? I think, at this point in our lives, we would be much more likely to rent a large house than anything else. Obviously, there are pros and cons to every choice (downtown condo: near all of the action, walk to restaurants and sights, much, much smaller, more costly and less functional; big house: almost the same amount of maintenance, might be wasting money for the occasional family / friend to drop in, far away from family and friends, higher monthly cost meaning less to invest).

Our health is pretty good - my wife has a gym membership and she goes almost every day during the week; I walk about 75-90 minutes a day plus my shoulder has healed enough I can resume strength training. I'd say we hopefully have a good 15 years (by which time we will be in our late 60's) before we will experience anything that will significantly curtail our physical activity.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

You probably didn't have as big of a tv, internet, a cell phone, cable tv, drink at Starbucks, etc. Either.

Finances are about choices and circumstances more than about income. Trying to compare your life and choices to your daughter's is silly. O me, it sounds like she is doing just fine, she's making ends meet and is overcoming challenges. I don't understand your desire to jump in and rescue someone who doesn't need rescuing, especially at your own expense.

Your daughter will probably be better off doing things herself, finding her own solutions, than if you jump in handing them money. If you're always the solution to the problem, what will happen when you're no longer around to provide the solution. 

Same goes for the other kids, at some point they need to stand on their own two feet and be adults.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We became accidental renters. In fact we move this week to a place we purchased. Signed a six month lease, been here for four years.

We downsized,sold our house in Calgary. The market was good. We came back seven months later and the market was too busy. Did not see what we wanted. Besides, who wants to buy when everyone else is buying? The decision to rent for six months was a place to live. The decision to stay for four years was financial.

We did not plan it, but we are so much further ahead by investing our home equity in the market for four plus years rather than buying. We just bought...at about what we would have paid four years ago, perhaps less. And much more choice with no crazy bidding. Our investment income, net of taxes, paid for our rental plus lots of travel. And we did not have to cut the grass, mow the lawn. Lock and go.

So, we did it by accident but I would highly recommend that others do this....depending of course on the real estate market and your family situation.


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## 319905 (Mar 7, 2016)

^ If all goes according to the agreement we arrived at with the buyer, we'll close within a year freeing up equity and we'll be leasing our old place from the buyer at a very reasonable rate up until June 2019 leaving before then if we choose. Part plan, part coincidence. Selling now at a 50% lift over the mpac assessed value (I know, completely meaningless) without going through the agent/listing process and buying (or not) later was an opportunity I just could not turn down. So ian, we're with you ... sell now when the market's good if it makes sense which it does for us and buy later ... or not ... renting wherever appeals as well. We do like the apartment condo idea, hard to give up the "have to own something" mentality just yet ... we'll see.


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## dougbos (Jun 4, 2012)

Going from owning your own home to renting is certainly an adjustment in lifestyle. Going from a 3500 sq foot home to a 800 sq ft apartment is even more of an adjustment. Husband and wife better be able to like together in a small space!
One thing in my opinion to be very careful of is renting a place that is privately owned. The owners may say that they have no plans to sell but life circumstances change and you may find that one day you are told that they have sold the unit and the new owners will be moving in on closing (assuming you are given the proper notice) or that they have a relative that will be moving in. Unless you can move yourself moving expenses can be high. If you are leaving your long time home and are downsizing how do you get rid of your furniture etc that you will not be able to keep.
If you do decide to rent I would only rent in a building that is rental. You then can avoid the above scenario where you can find yourself with 60 days to find a new residence.
If you are healthy and can afford it keeping your own home is more preferable to renting in my opinion. If you have a second storey and climbing stairs is difficult a stair lift can be put in.
In the end it comes down to preferred lifestyle and how you want to allot your finances.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

ian said:


> We became accidental renters. In fact we move this week to a place we purchased. Signed a six month lease, been here for four years...


We also became accidental renters. We had sold a big property with high maintenance and holed up in a rental apartment with stuff in storage. We searched the city for a suitable place even engaging an agent to search the city to meet our requirements. When the fall came we decided to find a more suitable rental. That was 21 years ago!

Then 10 years ago, DW found a place to buy in PV MX, after many years of renting for progressively longer times. So that has become home base for 6 months and we employ an agent to rent our penthouse up north during our absence.

It has turned out to be a good strategic move in hindsight. The PV purchase was in 2007 just before the market swoon, protecting our cash. And the property, based on USD, was purchased for $1.065 and now valued at in C$74.6, creating an FX gain of 40+%. Wow aren't we great market timers....

Property ownership created much capital wealth during our working lives, but we retired in 2002, and so are very flexible in terms of where we live. Had we been successful in purchasing back in 1997, we would not have had sufficient capital to retire in 2002 without downsizing.

So that is my story and my conclusion is that you need to make the best lifestyle decision that fits your life best. A little luck helps too.


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