# Credit Card Tap and Go



## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I imagine most people have heard about and probably used the "tap and go" method of using a credit card to pay for stuff. This is where you bring the card in close proximity to the credit card machine at most retailers and it senses your information and processes the transaction. No PIN numbers are required.

I will admit that it reduces the time involved in processing transactions but it seems to me to be a pretty big security breach. The credit card companies went to all the trouble of instigating PIN numbers for all their credit cards and then they implement this. I am not sure what the maximums are but anything larger then $20 bucks could probably get out of hand pretty quickly in the hands of the wrong person.

Anyway, does anyone know if this "tap and go" payment method is something that a credit card owner can get shut off? Also, do debit cards work the same way?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Had a friend ask this a while back ... the quick answer is no, you can't have it turned off.
It would be worthwhile to ask your CC/debit card company if it can be done though.

I actually like the feature and use it often.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Interesting question, Eagle. I would turn off the feature on my cards, if possible. Like you, tap and go makes me uneasy. I do not use it. I am quite happy to have to use a PIN every time.


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

You can get tap debit cards.There are transaction limits with tap payments which can vary by vendor.I agree it seems crazy to add chip and pin and then let people go around it.But stores and people probably like it because it does speed up the payment transaction.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I absolutely love 'tap and gp'. I use it whenever I can. FWIW, everywhere I go, the tap limit is $100 and might be set by the issuer, e.g. Visa or MC, rather than the POS unit.

Seriously, the world is moving to 'quick pay' systems. Think Apple Pay, Android Pay, etc. I have yet to activate/register for Android Pay on our Androids but I don't see why I would not do that. These systems are as safe as the encryption systems are, and what Alerts one sets up on their accounts. In my case, I have set up text/email alerts on our various bank accounts and credit card accounts to alert me when there are a certain number of transactions per day, transactions over a certain limit, international transactions, etc. There are plenty of ways to limit the damage.....and to be able to alert the provider if fraud is suspected. I sleep well at night as a result.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The maximums in Canada are usually $100 but I've seen $200 somewhere (Costco?) Depends on the merchant and country

I prefer to use my phone with fingerprint scanner (Visa is apparently working on cards with this tech)

The problem with magnetic cards was they could be easily copied and reproduced anywhere without stealing the card. The chip cards still have magnetic strips so they can still be skimmed/shimmed. Anytime someone takes your card with mag stripe out of your sight you should be concerned. Although it won't cost you anything your cards will get cancelled and you'll have to wait for a new one in the mail and update any pre-authorized payments etc. This has happened to me several times.

Chip cards are more secure (if they didn't still have weak mag strips) PIN or not because they use one time codes that can't just be skimmed. They have to physically steal the card. If you leave your wallet where some thief decides to steal your money $100 at a time the card will get locked as soon as you or the fraud bots notice. You lost the card anyways so you need a new card regardless and $100 is just like physical cash in your wallet (skimming fraud is usually much higher)

You could get an RFID blocking wallet if you're paranoid. Has anyone every successfully charged a card in someone's pocket?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

My TD Visa was skimmed/shimmed in Quebec last summer and charged over $7k at a random US Best Buy

I have the TD MySpend app that buzzes me about a microsecond anytime I swipe/tap my TD Visa. So as soon as I saw this I called the 1-800 number. The fraud department was very surprised this got through their automatic system (as was I because they often freeze my card when I bounce around locations even when I tell them I'm travelling and I was clearly nowhere near this Best Buy in the US)

The charge was still pending and never actually made it to my statement. The pain was getting a new card and updating Paypal, pre-auth payments etc

I think it was a restaurant that skimmed my card but magnetic swiping is still common in backcountry Canada


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree the card problem has been the magnetic strip rather than the Chip or Pay-as-you-go feature. People get paranoid at simplifying features rather than understanding them. 

Hint: Card issuers are motivated to reduce fraudulent use so evolving technologies are more likely to increase security than not. It still defies me when using CC cards in the USA which continue to use the magnetic strip and ask for a signature. Talk about the barn door being left open.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Reminds me I have never signed the back of a credit card in about 20 years and no one has ever noticed. I also sign receipts with a quick squiggle line that no one has ever questioned. Kind of a running test that never ended

I don't think Visa or Mastercard are concerned in the least judging by the V and MA charts. The merchant fees more than cover the costs of fraud and Tap and Go probably saves far more money in clerk wages for the merchant


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Yeah, but my point really was that newer technologies like Chip and Pin, and Tap are safer technologies than magnetic strip. I suspect issuers wish they could eliminate* the magnetic strip.

* In reality, I could on all my cards except with my USD credit card and one Canadian credit card as a fallback to merchants who have not gotten with the Chip program.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I have been able to use tap and go in USA with my, soon to be defunct, Amazon Visa card. Just yesterday was last time, at Starbucks.

Most restaurants still take your card away and bring you back a cash register slip for signature. Don't like that!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

While in Hawaii for a month recently, only a very small subset of merchants had Chip + Pin activated and none of them were restaurants. Funny (figuratively, not literally) how we now become uncomfortable when a card leaves our sight.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

When I was in Georgia "Tap and Go" with amazon visa never failed to impress the ladies. They had the NFC readers but most Americans only seem to use it for their phones, whereas amazon visa didn't work with my phone

When I was in Hawaii, California, often in Georgia as well it seemed like every street vendor, market stall and even coffee shops used iPads with square for checkout (magnetic card reader for smart devices..)

A lot of US chain restaurants are putting tablets at tables for both ordering and paying. I believe they used chip payment while the server could still go swipe the old fashion magnetic cards


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks. I suppose if they let me cancel the feature it might start to break down that "keep everyone spending as quickly as they can" system the retailers seem to like.

Being a little fanatical, I keep my credit cards and debit cards in a "metallic "sleeve I made for my wallet. This in hopes to prevent someone from bringing a reader close to my behind and reading all the information off of my credit cards/debit cards through my wallet and pants. That technology is out there so be careful. Not sure if my system prevents it but it cannot hurt. They sell material to protect your cards in this way, but I am sure tin foil would probably work for this if you are interested.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

How do you lock your car, Optsy? Do you push a button that sends an RF signal in all directions? What about your garage door? Is your car worth more than $100?

Technology is out there to record these signals without getting near your behind and then simply re-transmit them when you are probably sitting on a toilet with your pants down.

I know this but I still use wireless transmitters because I like the convenience. I also have theft insurance. You should probably line your tuque with some of that tin foil :sneakiness:


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

OptsyEagle said:


> Thanks. I suppose if they let me cancel the feature it might start to break down that "keep everyone spending as quickly as they can" system the retailers seem to like.
> 
> Being a little fanatical, I keep my credit cards and debit cards in a "metallic "sleeve I made for my wallet. This in hopes to prevent someone from bringing a reader close to my behind and reading all the information off of my credit cards/debit cards through my wallet and pants. That technology is out there so be careful. Not sure if my system prevents it but it cannot hurt. They sell material to protect your cards in this way, but I am sure tin foil would probably work for this if you are interested.


I like the ability to just tap my credit or debit card to make a purchase. The limit is typically $100, but it appears that Costco allows $200. If there's fraudulent use that the bank somehow refuses to reimburse, I won't have to sell the house.

As for security, sure it's a concern. I haven't resorted to the tin-foil yet, but I'll keep my wallet in my front pocket. Anyone putting a device 10 cm in front of me is going to get a swift kick. 

I believe Tap-n-go, using NFC within 10-20 cm, is one of the least intrusive capabilities of the Bluetooth 4 BLE spec; you actually have to overtly use it. "Beacons", on the other hand, are just spying on you without your knowledge. Like, take a short-cut through the ladies underwear section of the department store, then start getting pop-up discount coupons for bras and panties when you use your phone's browser.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Funny (figuratively, not literally) how we now become uncomfortable when a card leaves our sight.


We have good reason! Last year, we stopped in a small town in Pa for diesel on way South. We had to fill up at truck pumps. They required us to leave our card at counter, fill up, then go back and conclude transaction. About 3 months later, we had a call from Mastercard saying they had just prevented a purchase at a Walmart somewhere in mid west. We usually use our Visa in USA, but the gas station did not take it, so I used our M/C. So we knew where card data had been stolen. I hate it when card leaves our sight, but other than use cash, not much choice here. We check our card transactions on-line daily!


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

m3s said:


> How do you lock your car, Optsy? Do you push a button that sends an RF signal in all directions? What about your garage door? Is your car worth more than $100?
> 
> Technology is out there to record these signals without getting near your behind and then simply re-transmit them when you are probably sitting on a toilet with your pants down.
> 
> I know this but I still use wireless transmitters because I like the convenience. I also have theft insurance. You should probably line your tuque with some of that tin foil :sneakiness:


It is just a piece of tinfoil in a wallet. If tinfoil had never been invented I wouldn't bother. It was just a head's up with a suggestion.

Actually I use a piece of thin flexible metal sheeting, that I obtained when I took apart a broken down laptop just to see what's inside it. It was a piece of metal they used to protect the LCD screen from electro magnetic interference. I figured why not protect my credit cards the same way. It is a little better then tinfoil because it is much more durable. One does take the cards in and out of it quite often and tinfoil may not hold up.

I don't think I will need the tinfoil touque, since I doubt anyone really cares what's inside my head enough to bother to try to steal it, but thanks for the suggestion. lol


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Anyway, from what you guys are saying, it sounds like the retailers are the ones who are deciding on the limits for tap and go. That sounds like the credit card companies are leaving it to the retailers to decide if "THEY" want to take the responsibility of any fraud/theft and if so, how much liability are they willing to accept.

I can't be sure about this, but that is what it sounds like to me. If my card was stolen and a retailer accepted tap and go, then I would think that the retailer should be the one held responsible. I am sure they might have a difference in opinion, but that is how I would see it.

In any case, I have lowered the limits on my credit card, that I tend to carry around with me, to a level that it would be a little less costly then one of my stocks coming out with a surprise earnings miss. Sure wish I had some tinfoil that could prevent that. Thanks everyone for your replies.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> I can't be sure about this, but that is what it sounds like to me. If my card was stolen and a retailer accepted tap and go, then I would think that the retailer should be the one held responsible. I am sure they might have a difference in opinion, but that is how I would see it.


Given there is no liability on my part (other than being irresponsible myself), I am indifferent whether it is the retailer or the issuer that takes responsibility for the fraud.

Added: To Agent99's point, I also check our online accounts once a week or so for fraudulent activity. It takes no more than a few minutes while sipping my coffee in the morning to check status of our 4 main accounts.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

According to wikipedia (with no reference)



> Limits are completely at the discretion of the merchant's acquiring bank and the consumer's bank. There is no law limiting the amounts. However financial institutions limit contactless payments to $CA100.


However I believe that's outdated now as I've had at least 1 cashier direct me to use contactless for groceries over $100 (I think it was Costco but can't recall)

Sounds like it is the lesser of your bank's limit or the merchant bank's limit


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

m3s said:


> According to wikipedia (with no reference)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LCBO today max was 100 bucks, still.


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## OutofBounds (Dec 7, 2016)

I have tap and go on my debit card. I only really use it in the drive thru window. Makes the whole line move faster. Now, if we can only get those pesky old farts using cash in the drive thru to bugger off and go inside we could all get our coffee quicker. LOL. 

Where I draw the line is finger printing. It'll be a cold day in hell before I scan my finger print into a phone or credit card machine. Get stuffed. My employer was talking about doing it for clock in/out. I told them right where to put that idea. Guess a bunch of people did too because it was never implemented.


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## spiritwalker2222 (Nov 7, 2017)

I very rarely use my tap and go. Should probably disable it. For a while I used it all the time and my credit card kept being deactivated because of "suspicious activity". There is a big list of retailers that will trigger the "suspicious activity".

The convenience wasn't worth the hassle.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

OptsyEagle said:


> Anyway, does anyone know if this "tap and go" payment method is something that a credit card owner can get shut off? Also, do debit cards work the same way?


The tapping is possible due to an antenna that is wound into the card, under the layer of plastic. You can keep the card inside a shielded sleeve (sold at travel stores) which will prevent any kind of tapping and go'ing


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

The initial thinking on tap and go was that it could only be used for 3 or 4 transactions in a row or to a total of 500.00 in transaction ( can't remember actual numbers) then you would have to use chip and pin one time then it reset your tap and go. This was to limit fraudulent use
This is no longer the case AFAIK. Not sure why except the companies believe their antifraud algorithms are highly effective. BTW Costco limit on their Mastercard has tap and go over 200. Bought glasses the other day for 365 and used tap and go.

At one time you could turn on/off tap and go on some cards but not sure if the case now or whar cards allow it.

Oh BTW re finger printing, not quite the same but RBC has been testing voice recognition software for their Call centres for some years now. They have been doing some retinal scan testing as well.


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## DenisD (Apr 19, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> Anyway, does anyone know if this "tap and go" payment method is something that a credit card owner can get shut off?


I doubt if you can turn it off. But you can get a chip card without tap and go. Home Trust Preferred Visa is chip and PIN. You have to insert the card into the reader and enter the PIN every time. It's discussed extensively at RFD as a replacement for the Amazon Visa card.

http://hometrust.ca/visaonline.aspx


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

See the FAQ by the Canadian Bankers Association (CBA): https://cba.ca/tap-to-pay-card-security-an-faq

The Tap&Go cards have a microchip and an antenna, which make them difficult to counterfeit.

Purchase limits are between $50 and $100 for most retailers, though it sounds from some of the comments that some are now higher.

Quote:
_*Zero liability – Visa, MasterCard and Interac all have zero liability policies for credit and debit card holders. In cases of fraud, you won’t be held responsible and will get your money back.*_


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

m3s said:


> When I was in Hawaii, California, often in Georgia as well it seemed like every street vendor, market stall and even coffee shops used iPads with square for checkout (magnetic card reader for smart devices..)



quite a few pop-up shops & market vendors are using iPads w square card readers here. One required an e-mail addy. I'm uneasy that personal info is shared, or can be shared, with all the merchants (there must be hundreds of thousands) in the square network.

like Optsy, i'm a cautious soul. Before long - 3-4 square charges - i got a new CC & resolved to pay cash at pop-ups in the future.


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## yyz (Aug 11, 2013)

Costco can probably get higher tap limits because unlike other stores they are swiping a membership card,They know who is tapping.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yea I think it was Costco with the $200 tap limit. Will confirm next time. I just remember a being directed to use the Tap and then mentioning I didn't think it works over $100. I wonder if they have to gauge how much tin foil someone is packing before urging customers to use the Tap and speed up the line. Depending on the tin foil ratio this could backfire and slow things down

I just use my "burner card" for the pop-up shops and street vendors which my amazon card was good for. It doesn't need any premium insurance coverage or warranty extension benefits. If it gets shut down by the fraud department the impact to me is minimal as pre-auth payments are on another card. Basically mag swipes and small internet purchases go on the burner card

Major purchases that could benefit from warranty extension (never managed to use this ever before) insurance coverage (car rentals) and pre-auth payments goes on the premium cards. Then an intermediate card is used for small Tap 'n Go phone payments, mostly local gas, groceries, restaurants, home hardware etc


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## livewell (Dec 1, 2013)

I recently got my Home Trust Visa (To replace the Amazon card). I was in LCBO tapping away and it would not work, nor in other stores. I was just about to call Home Trust when I finally worked out the HT Visa does not support tap! (There is not signal strength logo on it.) I am surprised by this - I thought all new credit cards supported it. I will be using my HT Visa card less (And my Costco MC more) because it doesn't.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> ... One required an e-mail addy. I'm uneasy that personal info is shared, or can be shared, with all the merchants (there must be hundreds of thousands) in the square network.


There are more and more stores asking for email addresses. It's for marketing purposes, either by themselves or by 3rd parties to whom they sell the data. Decline if you can, or take your business elsewhere. Now some big retailers are doing it in a more subversive way - at their self-checkouts, the machine asks "Would you like an emailed receipt?" And of course if you say yes, you are giving them your email address, along with a list of what you bought, so they know what products you are interested in. Of course, if you have a "Rewards" card like "PC -Optimum" they are automatically collecting this data already.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

OhGreatGuru said:


> There are more and more stores asking for email addresses. It's for marketing purposes, either by themselves or by 3rd parties to whom they sell the data. Decline if you can, or take your business elsewhere.


If they ask if I want to give my e-mail address, I tell them that I don't have a computer, e-mail, or Internet. I'm at that age where that might just be believable. I love the condescending look of pity I get from them; it's hard to keep a straight face.


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## spiritwalker2222 (Nov 7, 2017)

DenisD said:


> I doubt if you can turn it off. But you can get a chip card without tap and go. Home Trust Preferred Visa is chip and PIN. You have to insert the card into the reader and enter the PIN every time. It's discussed extensively at RFD as a replacement for the Amazon Visa card.
> 
> http://hometrust.ca/visaonline.aspx


Tap and go can be disabled on request.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Here’s my Community service information regarding tap with random informationthat may be helpful

1. They are not as secure as one may think. (Depending on what your u think). It’s is not a conspiracy theory that they can be EASILY stolen 
2. The technology that allows businesses take card infor on their phone can be ‘boosted’ for a longer range. Someone could take your information from you wallet being a few meters away while in a purse in a good wallet.
3. Tin foil will not help much 
4. You can buy sleeves to block they signal, they generally do work, again, depends on the booster and the reader.
5. Banks will NOT diasable, but maybe we have asked the wrong people, but the don’t seem to be able to disable the signal.
6. There is a DIY hack tha involves drilling two tiny holes in the chip in the right places. Thought you could kill your card, and you need a tester.

We have one card each that has the tap enabled, all other cards have been drilled through, as there are some places that don’t take chip, and take tap only.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Do you carry cash? Do you leave the house? Does your bank cover you if you lose cash?

Contactless payment seems pretty low risk to me. The risk is I may have to call the bank to get $100 back.

Now blank cheques seem sketchy af to me, but nobody seems too concerned


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Had a friend ask this a while back ... the quick answer is no, you can't have it turned off.
> It would be worthwhile to ask your CC/debit card company if it can be done though.
> 
> I actually like the feature and use it often.


I'm more worry about cardless payments, like if someone gets your card and tries to spend that online.
You CAN set that to a $0 limit.

Did you actually call the issuer to disable it, or limit it to $0. If they balk, tell them you'll be looking for a card that allows you to disable this security flaw.
Personally I think calling it an unacceptable security flaw is a nice way to get attention.

I remember after I got my new VISA bank card, I had them issue me a non-Visa bank card.
I specifically called having a Visa number linked to my account "insane" among other things. I did have to get it bumped up to the supervisor, and called twice.
And an email, and then I had to point out that their training was lacking since nobody knew how to disable it.
They resumed issueing them due to complaints.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Last time I gassed up at my Canadian Tire gas bar, there was a sign on the pump saying: "coming soon - pump & tap". I pay at the pump, so I'll soon be able to tap instead. I'd rather tap than enter my pin when it's -30.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

pwm said:


> Last time I gassed up at my Canadian Tire gas bar, there was a sign on the pump saying: "coming soon - pump & tap". I pay at the pump, so I'll soon be able to tap instead. I'd rather tap than enter my pin when it's -30.


Is nice no matter what the temperature! I use the Speedpass FOB at Esso and PayPass at Petro-Canada. 

No offence, but I think those that are dragging their heels on the use of the latest technology will be left behind. I am essentially cashless (except for a backup stash of cash locked up at home in case of loss of the electrical grid) and cheque less. Just yesterday, it was so easy to drop my wife off at the airport, buy her a coffee at Timmys for $1.67 using the pay-n-go and pay $1.50 for parking with pay-n-go. Why would I want to do anything else?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I've seen people using speedpass in Canadian since about 2000?.. probably one of the first forms of RFID electronic payment in Canada. I never used speedpass, the first rapid payment system I used was the prepaid TimCards around the same time early 2000s?

I can't remember the first card I had with Paypass or Paywave but it seems like eons ago. I think it was around 2010 but then it took time for store to get the readers? Apple pay came to Canada in 2016 and I used it immediately. I pay for coffee and fast food with my watch as of 2017

The only fraud I've experienced first hand or known anyone personally to experience is the mag strip skimming. Which seems very common and routine to Visa


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

AltaRed said:


> I am essentially cashless (except for a backup stash of cash locked up at home in case of loss of the electrical grid) and cheque less.


I agree; if the technology is there, why not use it. But.... have you ever been in line to pay for your purchases and either the power fails or the electronic payment system is down? 

A few weeks ago, I was in the Post Office to send a package in line behind a couple who were also sending a package. The clerk wasn't able to get the electronic payment system to work, and put in a call to the IT guy to come fix it. She didn't know how long that would take, and asked the couple if they could pay with cash. 

What ensued was a 'discussion' about how the package needed to be sent today, neither had any cash on them at all, they were already late to pick up their kid so didn't have time to go to the nearest ATM, and by the time they picked up the kid, and went to the ATM, the Post Office would be closed.

While they debated their options, entertaining as it was, I didn't want to stick around for more. I went to the counter and used the backup-bills that I keep in my wallet for just such a situation. The only down-side for me, was that now I had a bunch of goddamn metal coins in my pocket that I'll probably never use - other than dump in the next tip or charity box I encounter.

BTW - My solution to their problem would be to ask to leave the package at the P.O. One of them would walk to the ATM and back to the P.O. ( a few blocks ) to pay for the shipping, while the other one drove to pick up the kid, and then circle back to the P.O. Of course, since the concept of 'walking' is as foreign to most people as cash money, I don't know if they came to that solution on their own.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I found the system rather questionable as well, since not long ago, signatures and PINs were vigorously verified to prevent fraud.

That being said, I assume the cc companies have weighed their risks with this system and decided it was a minimal.

For me, I find it super practical. I use it all the time. Am I concerned about fraud? Not more than if I used my signature or PIN. 

To be honest, I really don't care of my credit card gets duplicated - its not my money. The credit card company can take their sweet time to figure it all out. AND, that's the main reason I use my credit card for everything - even for a dollar coffee at MCD! I give 0 chance for anyone to fraud my debit card - cause that links my bank account which is my hard earned money that's at risk.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I haven't used cash for anything in years. I'm guessing that the $20 bill I keep in my wallet has been there since ~ 2008. As for cheques, I write one per year for the guy who pumps my septic tank. All bills are on autopay.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Userkare said:


> I agree; if the technology is there, why not use it. But.... have you ever been in line to pay for your purchases and either the power fails* or the electronic payment system is down? *
> 
> ...


 ... yes, just last week at Dollarama (now that they accept ccs). And the cashier had no idea when it would be back up ... I told her maybe the systems was being hacked like that at Timmie's the week before.

Good thing I had a few bills on me but the fella in front wasn't so lucky and he had to abandon his entire shopping cart (almost filled with mostly food - canned/jars) to get cash as debit cards weren't working either. I got bumped up on the line with a nice long line up behind me.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

m3s said:


> I also sign receipts with a quick squiggle line that no one has ever questioned. Kind of a running test that never ended


I always sign "Wayne Gretzky". Thought I was the only one getting jollies like that haha.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Userkare said:


> While they debated their options, entertaining as it was, I didn't want to stick around for more. I went to the counter and used the backup-bills that I keep in my wallet for just such a situation. The only down-side for me, was that now I had a bunch of goddamn metal coins in my pocket that I'll probably never use - other than dump in the next tip or charity box I encounter.
> 
> BTW - My solution to their problem would be to ask to leave the package at the P.O. One of them would walk to the ATM and back to the P.O. ( a few blocks ) to pay for the shipping, while the other one drove to pick up the kid, and then circle back to the P.O. Of course, since the concept of 'walking' is as foreign to most people as cash money, I don't know if they came to that solution on their own.


And you didn't offer to spot them $10? Pay it forward is a thing in Canadia. You never know when it could happen to you!

This summer I was motorbiking cross country on a single lane "track", when I come to a random gate far from civilization or any electronics. This little old lady must live at this gate and required $12 CAD to open it. I tried to negotiate, but apparently Three Billy Goats Gruff doesn't translate well in French. She wanted me to return hundreds of kms to the nearest ATM. Finally I convinced her to let me through if I promised to return 2 weeks later with $24 CAD

It's only the second time I got caught without cash, first time was worse in Herat. Moral of the story is to keep some emergency cash stashed away


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

We could only use the tap and go feature four times in a row ($119 total ) before payment by the card was declined. 


Shortly after receiving our TD Cash Back Infinite card, a local Shell station offered 5 AIR MILES® Rewards on a minimum 25 litre fuel purchase in a single transaction. So off we went with some empty 20 liter gas cans and the SUV.

To get the most bang and air miles for our buck, we decided to restart the pump after every 25 liters. To keep the people waiting in-line happy and cut down on the refuel time, my husband stayed with the cans and vehicle to do the pumping and I went inside to do the paying. 

While I was at the cash counter trying to sort out the payment dilemma my cell phone rang. It was a TD Visa representative informing me TD Visa had suspended my card for what appeared to be suspicious activity. Once I was able to verify it was me using the card he reactivated it right away.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

nortel'd said:


> We could only use the tap and go feature four times in a row ($119 total ) before payment by the card was declined.
> 
> 
> Shortly after receiving our TD Cash Back Infinite card, a local Shell station offered 5 AIR MILES® Rewards on a minimum 25 litre fuel purchase in a single transaction. So off we went with some empty 20 liter gas cans and the SUV.
> ...


When my wife and I got gas at the same time we'd get that, which was annoying because the credit card had a good rewards % on gas. Drove me crazy.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

m3s said:


> And you didn't offer to spot them $10? Pay it forward is a thing in Canadia. You never know when it could happen to you!


I actually thought about that. If they had $15 and just needed another $5, I would have come to their rescue. But these geniuses left their house without a penny between them ( if there were such a thing as a penny ). Do we want to reward lack of foresight? In any case, I didn't have enough cash on me to pay for both mine and their package - so I chose to send mine.



> This summer I was motorbiking cross country on a single lane "track", when I come to a random gate far from civilization or any electronics. This little old lady must live at this gate and required $12 CAD to open it. I tried to negotiate, but apparently Three Billy Goats Gruff doesn't translate well in French. She wanted me to return hundreds of kms to the nearest ATM. Finally I convinced her to let me through if I promised to return 2 weeks later with $24 CAD


Once, on a very cold winter night, when I lived in a very remote area - miles from the boonies in fact, there came a knock upon my door. A young couple was standing there shivering, dressed in indoor clothes; the woman was actually wearing slippers. They told a sad story about how he was fixing the car, and decided to take it for a test drive; she decided to come along for the ride. Neither thought about the possibility that perhaps it would be a good idea to bring gloves and winter appropriate outdoor clothing. "We ran out of gas a little way after passing your house; we saw that that lights were on, and walked back" they said. "Oh kind sir, may we come in and warm ourselves by your fire?" "Sure", I said. Once they were warm they said... "Oh kind sir, could you please give us a can of gasoline so that we may go back to our home?" "Sure" I said. "Oh thank you, kind sir, we will return tomorrow with your gas-can filled to capacity". I bid them farewell, and never saw them or my gas-can again.


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## joxer (Mar 14, 2018)

Plugging Along said:


> Here’s my Community service information regarding tap with random informationthat may be helpful
> 
> 1. They are not as secure as one may think. (Depending on what your u think). It’s is not a conspiracy theory that they can be EASILY stolen
> 2. The technology that allows businesses take card infor on their phone can be ‘boosted’ for a longer range. Someone could take your information from you wallet being a few meters away while in a purse in a good wallet.


I'm only going to address the iPhone and Apple Watch. What info is going to be stolen at range from these devices in your opinion? Even the merchant is given a one time use/fake card number for that transaction, which has to be initiated from thumbprint (iphone 6s) or double tap of the lower right button (Apple Watch). AFAIK these are more secure ways to pay than chip and pin, even if you trust the retailer with your card number. Which makes a $100 limit for these silly at the LCBO, lumping them in with a card that can simply be stolen and used as cash. In fact, even if your MasterCard is lost or stolen you can continue using ApplePay.


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