# Thank god the old Trump is back



## :) lonewolf

The media & WHO should stand trial for the damage they have done. The whole Bogus virus epidemic was it just herd mentality gone wild or was there an agenda behind it i.e., the globalists or to bring marshal law to the masses in Europe as the economy falls apart maybe just blame Corona. Through out history the corrupt always hide behind their army though the masses they have screwed over always put them to death.
Trump finally points out that the flu this season will kill 50,000 in the US this year as well as the number of deaths from auto accidents is higher yet & they do not stop people from driving.


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## :) lonewolf

follow the money trail


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## andrewf

:) lonewolf said:


> The media & WHO should stand trial for the damage they have done. The whole Bogus virus epidemic was it just herd mentality gone wild or was there an agenda behind it i.e., the globalists or to bring marshal law to the masses in Europe as the economy falls apart maybe just blame Corona. Through out history the corrupt always hide behind their army though the masses they have screwed over always put them to death.
> Trump finally points out that the flu this season will kill 50,000 in the US this year as well as the number of deaths from auto accidents is higher yet & they do not stop people from driving.



How many COVID deaths in the US do you think they should be okay with? Is 2M okay? 5M? These are possibilities. Just broadcast fog the population with the virus and get all this over with in a few weeks, one way or another. Then go and find all the bloated corpses in their houses and bury them, and get back to work. Even if the US were to lift quarantine, the remaining population is in no mood to go out and get exposed to the virus, so you'd have to force their hand.


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## cainvest

:) lonewolf said:


> The media & WHO should stand trial for the damage they have done.


The media and WHO didn't do it, Trump did ... he's the one in charge right?


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## nobleea

Republicans have bought in to his misinformation and lies and the states that lean red are not as prepared for this and are not taking it seriously. The death rates will be higher there, hitting older people the hardest. Who happen to be vote more on the right. He is essentially killing his electoral base.


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## sags

Donald will save us. He is a very stable genius. The doctors and scientists are amazed at his depth of knowledge and look upon him as their professional equal.


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## dave2012

:) lonewolf said:


> The media & WHO should stand trial for the damage they have done. The whole Bogus virus epidemic was it just herd mentality gone wild or was there an agenda behind it i.e., the globalists or to bring marshal law to the masses in Europe as the economy falls apart maybe just blame Corona. Through out history the corrupt always hide behind their army though the masses they have screwed over always put them to death.
> Trump finally points out that the flu this season will kill 50,000 in the US this year as well as the number of deaths from auto accidents is higher yet & they do not stop people from driving.


This is in my opinion why the US is doomed to succumb to the full effect of the virus more than any other country in the world. Only 2 weeks ago it was still being called a 'hoax' and just 'the flu' by a major network that 1/3 of the people swear by, even their leader called it 'the flu' on national tv yesterday. And the reference to people dying from driving doesn't help.

0% chance they can get it under control like China (my opinion) when at least 1/3 of the population doesn't believe it and most of those are defiant/in denial or believe some conspiracy. And they figure all will be well in 18 days and everyone will be 'packing the churches'. A good reference (there are a ton)


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## bgc_fan

dave2012 said:


> This is in my opinion why the US is doomed to succumb to the full effect of the virus more than any other country in the world. Only 2 weeks ago it was still being called a 'hoax' and just 'the flu' by a major network that 1/3 of the people swear by, even their leader called it 'the flu' on national tv yesterday. And the reference to people dying from driving doesn't help.


Kind of expected when Trump spent his whole time attacking mainstream media as fake news, so his supporters believe everything is a democratic hoax. 

The funny thing is that everything he has done hurts his supporters the most: trade war with China, and non-responsiveness to COVID19. When you consider the overlap of Trump supporters and those most vulnerable to COVID19, there is a direct overlap. Yet his supporters never waver.


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## dave2012

Oh and kudos goes out big time for the real media and professionals for keep everyone informed on what is really happening and the truth! Unfortunately the damaged done for the last 3 1/2 years by DT calling them fake news 100,000s of times along with this state TV lies will be devastating to all Americans for years to come. And of course everyday he still calls them fake news... beyond sad.


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## Letran

US is in very sad state indeed. And I’m not talking about the coronavirus.
Donald’s actions and word are killing people and putting thousands of people’s live in danger.


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## Longtimeago

The sad thing for America is that there actually are many people who think as the OP of this thread does. The whole world is in on a plot to unseat Donald Trump. Yup, the whole world. They are even dying on purpose as part of the plot, thousands of them. Ordinary little people around the world are voluntarily dying just to unseat Trump.

"_The whole Bogus virus epidemic". _Yup, sure, it's all bogus and the whole world is in on it.


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## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> Kind of expected when Trump spent his whole time attacking mainstream media as fake news, so his supporters believe everything is a democratic hoax.


Let's talk facts. CBC News blatantly lied yesterday (Mar 24) and said "Arizona man dead, woman in critical condition after ingesting chemical touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as potential COVID-19 treatment."

Trump is 100% correct, but it's worse than fake news. It's a deliberate lie from the media. And some people are stupid enough to fall for it every day.


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## :) lonewolf

sags said:


> Donald will save us. He is a very stable genius. The doctors and scientists are amazed at his depth of knowledge and look upon him as their professional equal.


Are they the same scientists that have been saying for years that are trying to cause panic by first saying the ozone hole, then the death of the Marsh lands, acid rain, global warming, now climate change since the cycle change to cooling. I have heard from a pretty good source about doctors in Europe saying they are having to lie to people regarding corona & for some reason all they want is lock down.


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## :) lonewolf

Letran said:


> US is in very sad state indeed. And I’m not talking about the coronavirus.
> Donald’s actions and word are killing people and putting thousands of people’s live in danger.


Europe is a complete mess with opening up its boarders to migrants. Trump is smart enough not to listen to NATO. NATO seams to be on a mission to destroy by wanting countries to take in migrants, to stop burning of all fossil fuels & have us freeze to death. The head of WHO backed by NATO has become the most powerful man in the world. Trump is taking back control.


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## :) lonewolf

The problem is when there is a real black plaque event the media will not be trusted. Judging by the number dead on the cruise ships that were swimming in the virus for weeks on end this is no plaque


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## agent99

It may be time for Trump to get out there and campaign. Shake hands with his many supporters. Show everyone by example that this virus is no worse than flu or car accidents.


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## Prairie Guy

agent99 said:


> It may be time for Trump to get out there and campaign. Shake hands with his many supporters. Show everyone by example that this virus is no worse than flu or car accidents.


Maybe Trudeau can prove how weak the virus is by shaking the hands of the thousands of passengers coming in on flights from China every single day. Or maybe he can personally greet the illegal aliens crossing at Roxham every day.


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## Prairie Guy

:) lonewolf said:


> The problem is when there is a real black plaque event the media will not be trusted.


Based on some of the comments on this site, too many people still believe the media lies.


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## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Let's talk facts. CBC News blatantly lied yesterday (Mar 24) and said "Arizona man dead, woman in critical condition after ingesting chemical touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as potential COVID-19 treatment."
> 
> Trump is 100% correct, but it's worse than fake news. It's a deliberate lie from the media. And some people are stupid enough to fall for it every day.


They didn't die, or they didn't take it on advice from Trump?


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## andrewf

:) lonewolf said:


> The problem is when there is a real black plaque event the media will not be trusted. Judging by the number dead on the cruise ships that were swimming in the virus for weeks on end this is no plaque


Feel free to visit the Covid19 wards and help out if you are so unconcerned about this illness.


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## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> They didn't die, or they didn't take it on advice from Trump?


They died because they took a chemical that wasn't a Coronavirus drug. CBC lied by saying that Trump told people to take it and that led to their death.


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## sags

Finally, the networks cut away from another press conference where Trump was spewing nonsense.

It looks like the networks will no longer give Trump a platform to spew his meandering nonsense.


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## dave2012

Prairie Guy said:


> They died because they took a chemical that wasn't a Coronavirus drug. CBC lied by saying that Trump told people to take it and that led to their death.


They thought is was the same drug. They made a mistake first in listening to Dr Trump then taking something that they thought Dr Trump was recommending people take. Admitted by the wife. Husband died.

see https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-chloroquine-poisoning-death/


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## Prairie Guy

dave2012 said:


> They thought is was the same drug. They made a mistake first in listening to Dr Trump then taking something that they thought Dr Trump was recommending people take. Admitted by the wife. Husband died.
> 
> see https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-chloroquine-poisoning-death/


Someone died because of their own stupidity but some people just can't help themselves and they blame Trump instead of the fool who ate pool cleaner. Rather than report accurately CBC deliberately lied to people and some of you are so full of hatred that you still want to believe it even after the facts are known.

Get a life.


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## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> Finally, the networks cut away from another press conference where Trump was spewing nonsense.
> 
> It looks like the networks will no longer give Trump a platform to spew his meandering nonsense.


Sure...the media will deliberately cut away from Trump because he was looking foolish. After lying about him for 3 straight years and trying to make him look bad every chance they got suddenly they're now covering for him.

Some of you will believe absolutely anything, not matter how stupid it is. :biggrin:


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## Spudd

Prairie Guy said:


> Some of you will believe absolutely anything, not matter how stupid it is. :biggrin:


Indeed.


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## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> Let's talk facts. CBC News blatantly lied yesterday (Mar 24) and said "Arizona man dead, woman in critical condition after ingesting chemical touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as potential COVID-19 treatment."
> 
> Trump is 100% correct, but it's worse than fake news. It's a deliberate lie from the media. And some people are stupid enough to fall for it every day.





Prairie Guy said:


> Someone died because of their own stupidity but some people just can't help themselves and they blame Trump instead of the fool who ate pool cleaner. Rather than report accurately CBC deliberately lied to people and some of you are so full of hatred that you still want to believe it even after the facts are known.
> 
> Get a life.


So what part was the CBC lie? The Arizona couple ingested chloroquine phosphate after hearing Trump talking about the wonders of hydrochloroquine and chloroquine (link to transcript). The couple heard chloroquine and thought it was the same thing. Of course, if Trump never mentioned it, the couple wouldn't have thought to ingest the chemical.


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## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> So what part was the CBC lie? The Arizona couple ingested chloroquine phosphate after hearing Trump talking about the wonders of hydrochloroquine and chloroquine (link to transcript). The couple heard chloroquine and thought it was the same thing. Of course, if Trump never mentioned it, the couple wouldn't have thought to ingest the chemical.


You too? Read the CBC quote. Trump never said that a pool chemical was treatment for Coronavirus yet that is EXACTLY what CBC falsely claimed:

"Arizona man dead, woman in critical condition after ingesting chemical touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as potential COVID-19 treatment."

Some people here are either trolling or they're unable to read a simple sentence and understand it.


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## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> They died because they took a chemical that wasn't a Coronavirus drug. CBC lied by saying that Trump told people to take it and that led to their death.


I saw Trump using his own words to enthuse about chloroquine, that he 'felt very good about it'. He needs to take some responsibility when he is communicating to the public.


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## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> You too? Read the CBC quote. Trump never said that a pool chemical was treatment for Coronavirus yet that is EXACTLY what CBC falsely claimed:
> 
> "Arizona man dead, woman in critical condition after ingesting chemical touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as potential COVID-19 treatment."
> 
> Some people here are either trolling or they're unable to read a simple sentence and understand it.


You have a link or screenshot? Because that's not a CBC quote: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/arizona-chloroquine-death-1.5507775
Let me help you:
The couple took chloroquine phosphate, an ingredient found in anti-malaria medication touted by Trump
or
A Phoenix-area man has died and his wife was in critical condition after the couple took chloroquine phosphate, an additive used to clean fish tanks that is also found in an anti-malaria medication that's been touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as a treatment for COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

Did he say that the aquarium (not pool) cleaner was a treatment for Coronavirus? No. 

Did he say that chloroquine was a treatment for Coronavirus? Yes.

Does an uneducated person not know the difference? Yes.

Granted, CBC isn't a good source of science as the fact that they state the additive is also found in the anti-malaria medication which isn't quite true.


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## agent99

Despite all this Trump's approval ratings are their highest!


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## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> You have a link or screenshot? Because that's not a CBC quote: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/arizona-chloroquine-death-1.5507775
> Let me help you:
> The couple took chloroquine phosphate, an ingredient found in anti-malaria medication touted by Trump
> or
> A Phoenix-area man has died and his wife was in critical condition after the couple took chloroquine phosphate, an additive used to clean fish tanks that is also found in an anti-malaria medication that's been touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as a treatment for COVID-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.
> 
> Did he say that the aquarium (not pool) cleaner was a treatment for Coronavirus? No.
> 
> Did he say that chloroquine was a treatment for Coronavirus? Yes.
> 
> Does an uneducated person not know the difference? Yes.
> 
> Granted, CBC isn't a good source of science as the fact that they state the additive is also found in the anti-malaria medication which isn't quite true.


CBC has since deleted the tweet...no surprise since it was a blatant lie. I should have taken a screen shot, but I did quote it word for word.

Even their correction falsely claims that the pool additive is part of the anti-malaria drug, which is false. Cloroquine phosphate is not cloroquine....just like carbon is not carbon dioxide.


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## dubmac

This is an interesting article - written by a Canadian "escaping" the virus and cavalier attitudes to the virus in Florida. 








Escape from Florida: My 2,400-km drive back to the sanity of Canada - Macleans.ca


Stephen Maher: In Florida, the beaches were open, people filled bars, and many just couldn't seem to grasp 'why everyone is panicking'




www.macleans.ca


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## Letran

Somebody please explain this to me.

How could anyone with half a brain support Donald Trump??? Let alone have the vigor to defend him. Sorry but you have to be completely blind and stupid at this point not to see that Trump only cares about Trump. He is a narcissistic liar, cannot trust what he says.

sad, sad indeed.


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## Beaver101

Letran said:


> Somebody please explain this to me.
> 
> How could anyone with half a brain support Donald Trump??? Let alone have the vigor to defend him. Sorry but you have to be completely blind and stupid at this point not to see that Trump only cares about Trump. He is a narcissistic liar, cannot trust what he says.
> 
> sad, sad indeed.


 ... you see, sofar he's immune to Covid-19. And when it gets to him or one of his "loved (does he have any?) one(s)" and it gets leaked, he'll label it as "FAKE NEWS!!!!". 

The title of this thread should be "Good to see the Old Dump hasn't changed abit!!!!!" 👊


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## Eder

No horse in this discussion but I have observed that comments in various media like this forum, NY Times, G&M etc are generally 90% outraged with the orange guy as president, but when voters hit the polls many must have changed their minds and from the looks of things will again this Fall.


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## agent99

Sad but true.

Unless Biden picks someone like Andrew Cuomo as running mate?









'I'm gonna go to work': How Andrew Cuomo and his press conferences contrast with President Trump


For New Yorkers stuck inside their homes -- and heads -- as the state and country confront the rapid spread of coronavirus, Andrew Cuomo's press conferences have become appointment viewing.




www.cnn.com


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## Rusty O'Toole

Bahrain, Belgium report Coronavirus treatment touted by Trump is working for patients








Bahrain, Belgium report coronavirus treatment touted by Trump is working for patients


Clinical Tests of Hydroxychloroquines to Fight COVID-19 in Bahrain prove successful




justthenews.com




So, Trump was right again. To be fair he did not invent this treatment, it was reported by various sources that it was working in Korea and some other asian countries. He merely pointed out that there is hopeful news of possible cures and this is one of them.
It's too bad some guy in Arizona got hold of the wrong end of things too quickly, and got sick from taking the wrong thing. But you can hardly blame Trump for that. We don't even know for sure that he got the idea from Trump's speech.
We also don't know why the media reported that 3 random guys in Nigeria died from taking chloroquine when it has nothing to do with Trump, or anything else.
This is called bullshit over nothing, or fake news.


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## andrewf

No one should be taking it outside of medical supervision. There are clinical trials underway, we should be waiting for results from that before touting a cure.

This risk of saying 'we have a cure' is that this is not a cure, but a potential treatment. We still need to contain the spread, and any idea that suggests we are not in an emergency is going to lead to people taking dumb risks and getting people (themselves, loved ones or others) killed.


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## Eder

Takes a long time for media to catch up with whats going on...while accusing Trump of killing some trailer trash other countries are already in the 8th inning.


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## agent99

I guess Trump heard about this from some of his "good friends" 



> Dr. Shaikh Mohamed, who leads the National Taskforce for Combating COVID-19, was also quoted by the news agency as saying hydroxychloroquine was administered according to the same regimens as those used in China and South Korea.


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## Prairie Guy

Letran said:


> Somebody please explain this to me.
> 
> How could anyone with half a brain support Donald Trump??? Let alone have the vigor to defend him. Sorry but you have to be completely blind and stupid at this point not to see that Trump only cares about Trump. He is a narcissistic liar, cannot trust what he says.
> 
> sad, sad indeed.


Well, if you were actually reading the comments, people were complaining about the blatant and proven media lies. But, I guess if those lies are about Trump then some people just can't handle it or don't want to hear it.

As I said before...some of you need to get a life. When you choose to defend media lies because you're so full of hatred, then maybe you need to seek some professional help.


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## Plugging Along

Well, it's not really Trumps fault that the person die. It's a catch 22, the average person isn't that smart. It's been proven time and time again, it explains how Trump was elected. That being said, Trump should be proud he is starting to win against China. Checking the world metrics, the USA has more cases than China. Plus they will start opening to their boarders to 'low risk' countries. He should be proud.


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## Prairie Guy

Those who think that official numbers out of China are accurate probably shouldn't question the intelligence of others.


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## andrewf

^ If you think the numbers from China are not accurate, you have to address a couple of points:

-If cases were still rising rapidly, corpses would be piling up and even a totalitarian dictatorship can't hide that very effectively
-If cases in China continued rising rapidly, most of the country would have been infected by now. 

So, you have to be clearer about what you mean by disbelieving the official numbers from China. You mean more are dead? More were infected? Infection is still spreading? I'm open to the idea, but you would see evidence of wide-spread spread of the virus, namely full hospitals and piles of bodies. Even China couldn't hide it.


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## Rusty O'Toole

As for how Trump got elected, you would think the voters had a choice between Trump and Mother Teresa, Einstein and Superman all rolled into one. They didn't. They had a choice between Trump and Hillary Clinton.


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## Rusty O'Toole

Trump's critics are going to ***** if he does something and ***** if he doesn't. No matter what he does they will find a way to ***** about it. He does right by ignoring them and dismissing the media as a bunch of lying whores.


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## capricorn

Even if original infected and dead numbers from China are suspect, the current trend is at least in right direction. That gives hope that in worst case this will be overcome. We just have to get past the stupid leaders who were asking to go and enjoy parade and hug an asian American in NY as recently as 3 weeks ago. They are paying the price. And we in Canada are paying the price for not stopping travel early enough.


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## capricorn

And 2 surgical masks per shift in Ottawa hospital as per CTV news story. Covid-19 is exposing the might of our health care. I did not expect that in yr 2020 a doctor in Canada is asked to see a potentially infectious patient without a N95 mask. And we pat ourselves on the back for sending 16 ton PPE to China mid Feb.


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## Mowan




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## :) lonewolf

In post above mixed up united Nations with NAFTA should have said do not trust United nations


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## MrMatt

Rusty O'Toole said:


> As for how Trump got elected, you would think the voters had a choice between Trump and Mother Teresa, Einstein and Superman all rolled into one. They didn't. They had a choice between Trump and Hillary Clinton.


That's the problem.
The Democrats still aren't pushing a credible candidate. Biden? 
His hair sniffing montages alone freak me out.
At least when Trump was messing around with pornstars, he did it in private and he paid them.

Trump didn't win the election, Clinton lost it.

To be fair, Trump is in a tough position, he's got an impossible problem, and the people want his simple straightforward style. So things like the N95 mask seizures are "obvious".
Sure these actions will seriously damage US credibility and economy long term, but right now everyone is looking at the short term.

“President Trump is a hammer looking for a nail. Sometimes he hits a nail. Sometimes he hits a baby.” -Ben Shapiro


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## sags

Doug Ford is right. We should be making our own PPE right here in Ontario. As Ford said.........never again.

Trudeau and Ford won't take Trump's edict lying down. There will be repercussions and consequences..........to be named later.


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## Longtimeago

I'm now waiting to see how Trump's defenders on this forum explain his decision to order 3M not to provide masks to Canada. That order also applies to other countries as well by the way.


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## Beaver101

^ And the SIL's expertise on MAGA with this:

Wait, Jared Kushner is the coronavirus guru now?



> ...
> 
> Let's go through what Kushner said:
> 1) Asked about states' complaints that they weren't getting the medical supplies they needed from the federal government, Kushner said this: "The notion of the federal stockpile is that it's supposed to be* our stockpile.* *It's not supposed to be states*' stockpiles that they then use." ...


which was conveniently changed to this ????:



> ..That runs directly counter to how the Strategic National Stockpile is described on its own website (bolding is mine):
> _"Strategic National Stockpile is the nation's largest supply of life-saving pharmaceuticals and medical supplies for use in a public health emergency severe enough to cause local supplies to run out. _*When state, local, tribal, and territorial responders request federal assistance to support their response efforts, the stockpile ensures that the right medicines and supplies get to those who need them most during an emergency*_."_


_ ... _OMG.


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## Prairie Guy

Longtimeago said:


> I'm now waiting to see how Trump's defenders on this forum explain his decision to order 3M not to provide masks to Canada. That order also applies to other countries as well by the way.


He's taking care of his citizens first. 

Trudeau sent thousands of our much needed masks to his friend in China, and lets unvetted illegals cross daily at Roxham and lets planes land from China with no medical procedures in place. I'd love to hear you defend those decisions.


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## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ^ And the SIL's expertise on MAGA with this:
> 
> Wait, Jared Kushner is the coronavirus guru now?
> 
> 
> 
> which was conveniently changed to this ????:
> 
> _ ... _OMG.


The US stockpile is so the feds can disperse it to help all of the states that need help when neccesary. I'm not sure why that bothers you? It's not like they're holding it back and refusing to help those that need help.


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## Longtimeago

You remind me of the old proverb Prairie Guy.








A quote by Arabian


He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not,is a fool; shun him.He who knows not,and knows that he knows not, is a student; Teach him.He wh...



www.goodreads.com





I'll leave it to others to decide which category you remind me of.


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## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> I'm now waiting to see how Trump's defenders on this forum explain his decision to order 3M not to provide masks to Canada. That order also applies to other countries as well by the way.


Not that I'm a Trump defender, but he needs masks, so he's going to get masks using every legal tool available.
Now the explanation why?
There is a disease ravaging the planet, having masks will help reduce the spread. Having masks will save lives. As the leader of the executive branch of the US government, it is his job to get the supplies they need to save lives.

He's literally doing his job. That's the explanation.

Now, the cost of these actions, if they're appropriate, if they'll make things better or worse for the US are all points to discussion, but they are all secondary to the simple basic explanation of why he felt he had to do this.


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## Prairie Guy

Longtimeago said:


> You remind me of the old proverb Prairie Guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quote by Arabian
> 
> 
> He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not,is a fool; shun him.He who knows not,and knows that he knows not, is a student; Teach him.He wh...
> 
> 
> 
> www.goodreads.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll leave it to others to decide which category you remind me of.


The media failed to trap Trump with a "gotcha" question, but they sure did suck you in. I explained my answer, unlike you. Perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.


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## Longtimeago

MrMatt said:


> Not that I'm a Trump defender, but he needs masks, so he's going to get masks using every legal tool available.
> Now the explanation why?
> There is a disease ravaging the planet, having masks will help reduce the spread. Having masks will save lives. As the leader of the executive branch of the US government, it is his job to get the supplies they need to save lives.
> 
> He's literally doing his job. That's the explanation.
> 
> Now, the cost of these actions, if they're appropriate, if they'll make things better or worse for the US are all points to discussion, but they are all secondary to the simple basic explanation of why he felt he had to do this.


EVERY country needs masks MrMatt. Are you aware that besides his order to 3M, his government has been HI-JACKING shipments from China intended for other countries?

Canada has now opened it's own warehouse in China for supplies to be shipped to within China and then picked up from there and flown back to Canada by our own airlines directly. Why are we doing that some might ask and adding another step in the process rather than just letting China ship to us directly from their factories.

Masks literally ON the plane and intended to go to France were for all intents and purposes LITERALLY hi-jacked right on the tarmac by buyers from the US waving CASH.








US hijacking mask shipments in rush for coronavirus protection


Fears of shortages are driving many countries to take increasingly devious measures to secure masks and tests




www.theguardian.com





Another example with a shipment meant for Germany





Every country has a need for masks MrMatt and every government has a duty to try and secure the supplies their country needs but NOT in this way.

Should Canada order all Canadian nurses, doctors, etc. who commute across the border into the USA daily to work in US hospitals in places like Detroit, to stop doing so and instead fill the increased need for staff in Canada? Should Canada stop shipping the basic raw materials we do ship into the USA to make N95 masks and only supply companies in Canada making N95 masks? Should every country who provides ANYTHING that is used in combating this virus in any way, stop shipping to the USA?

Do we want to be part of a society that sees everything as Trump sees the world, as 'ME FIRST and to hell with anyone else.' If we did that, we would be saying that two wrongs make a right. What Trump is doing is MORALLY wrong MrMatt and is NOT justifiable in any moral society.


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## Prairie Guy

Did anyone fact check that Guardian story? It seems that most of the anti-Trump stories posted here end up proven false.


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## Longtimeago

Prairie Guy said:


> Did anyone fact check that Guardian story? It seems that most of the anti-Trump stories posted here end up proven false.


Why don't YOU fact check them Prairie Guy and report back to us. You can start here:




__





us hijiacking supplies from china - Google Search






www.google.com





But what will it take for you to believe it Prairie Guy? What do you need to know even beyond the UNDENIABLE fact that 3M has been ORDERED not to ship masks to Canada? Is that not enough for you? That FACT is being reported by every source available. Is there ANY source you will believe or are the words out of Trump's mouth all you will believe?

Should we STOOP to the level of Trump and retaliate in kind?


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## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> EVERY country needs masks MrMatt. Are you aware that besides his order to 3M, his government has been HI-JACKING shipments from China intended for other countries?
> 
> Canada has now opened it's own warehouse in China for supplies to be shipped to within China and then picked up from there and flown back to Canada by our own airlines directly. Why are we doing that some might ask and adding another step in the process rather than just letting China ship to us directly from their factories.
> 
> Masks literally ON the plane and intended to go to France were for all intents and purposes LITERALLY hi-jacked right on the tarmac by buyers from the US waving CASH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US hijacking mask shipments in rush for coronavirus protection
> 
> 
> Fears of shortages are driving many countries to take increasingly devious measures to secure masks and tests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another example with a shipment meant for Germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every country has a need for masks MrMatt and every government has a duty to try and secure the supplies their country needs but NOT in this way.
> 
> Should Canada order all Canadian nurses, doctors, etc. who commute across the border into the USA daily to work in US hospitals in places like Detroit, to stop doing so and instead fill the increased need for staff in Canada? Should Canada stop shipping the basic raw materials we do ship into the USA to make N95 masks and only supply companies in Canada making N95 masks? Should every country who provides ANYTHING that is used in combating this virus in any way, stop shipping to the USA?
> 
> Do we want to be part of a society that sees everything as Trump sees the world, as 'ME FIRST and to hell with anyone else.' If we did that, we would be saying that two wrongs make a right. What Trump is doing is MORALLY wrong MrMatt and is NOT justifiable in any moral society.


What makes you think I'm not aware that everyone needs masks?

I'm not aware of any hijacking. I am aware of reports that US corporations acting in compliance with US law.

What was asked was to explain why he did this, which I did
"We need masks, I get masks, damn the consequences." << That's the whole thought process there.
Morally wrong? I think his actions are bad, but it's hard to argue that it is morally wrong to do his job.
Lets be clear about this, the job of the US President is to take care of the American people.

That's actually something a lot of people tend to forget, our leaders have a responsibility to their citizens. I'm not a globalist, but I'm not a protectionist either. To those who really can't understand Trump, it's in a slogan "America First". It's not only literally his job, but it's also his defining mindset.


Yes I'm aware that this is doing serious long term damage to the US. 

Yes this is a short term decision for the US, yes it will have serious long term negative impacts on the US. 

But he feels he needs masks, so he's getting masks, deal with the consequences later.

That's type of decision is being undertaken everywhere around the world right now to deal with COVID-19.
When you're paniced or scared, you make bad decisions.

As far as retaliation that will hurt the US, I think that's a very bad idea, for the very same reasons it's a bad idea for the US to block masks in the first place.

Lets just look at blocking raw materials for masks, lets block those (assuming we control the supply), so the US has a mask shortage too. Does it hurt the US, yes, does it help Canada? No.

Now if we were to prioritize shipping products to domestic mask manufacturing plants, that would be a bit different.

But in any case retaliation is a losing strategy for Canada, also for the US, but lets be self centered here.

However, look at your food. If the US closes the border with Canada, we will run out of food or other critical supplies.
We closed out last fruit canning plant over 10 years ago. 

That's just a short term problem, long term it's even worse as our economies are highly integrated. The pressure from US border states is one thing that made NAFTA 2 get to where it is today. If we cut off critical supplies to the US now, and people die, Trump will simply tear up NAFTA, and there won't be enough public pressure to stop him.


----------



## Longtimeago

I understand all of that MrMatt but I cannot condone or justify in any way, Trump's actions. I realize you are not doing so either.

His actions should be condemned by every right thinking person in the world. I do not steal from you to feed my family, no matter whether we are starving or not. That is anarchy MrMatt. What's next, cannibalism? Should we start eating our own? Should Ontario refuse to ship supplies to BC? There is no difference.

What should be happening is if my family is starving and your family is starving, we should combine our resources, abilities, etc. and try to find a way to feed both our families. Not steal from each other.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> He's taking care of his citizens first.
> 
> Trudeau sent thousands of our much needed masks to his friend in China, and lets unvetted illegals cross daily at Roxham and lets planes land from China with no medical procedures in place. I'd love to hear you defend those decisions.


Is Trump taking care of his citizens if that means in retaliation Canada stops exports of the wood fibre 3M uses to make the masks and diverts it to companies that will make masks for Canadians, or stops allowing nurses from Windsor to cross the border to take care of Americans in hospitals in Detroit?


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> Not that I'm a Trump defender, but he needs masks, so he's going to get masks using every legal tool available.
> Now the explanation why?
> There is a disease ravaging the planet, having masks will help reduce the spread. Having masks will save lives. As the leader of the executive branch of the US government, it is his job to get the supplies they need to save lives.
> 
> He's literally doing his job. That's the explanation.
> 
> Now, the cost of these actions, if they're appropriate, if they'll make things better or worse for the US are all points to discussion, but they are all secondary to the simple basic explanation of why he felt he had to do this.


What if, as a result, 3M can't get the inputs they need to make the masks?


----------



## andrewf

I was thinking about this a couple of days ago. My employer, a large Canadian company, is working on moving over 3 million masks from China to Canada this weekend. Some are flying direct to Toronto, others are flying into Chicago to be shipped by truck to Canada. Will the US try to steal these masks, too? I was wondering about the wisdom of flying them into Chicago. Things will get very bad very quickly if this is the way Trump decides to play things.


----------



## Longtimeago

andrewf said:


> I was thinking about this a couple of days ago. My employer, a large Canadian company, is working on moving over 3 million masks from China to Canada this weekend. Some are flying direct to Toronto, others are flying into Chicago to be shipped by truck to Canada. Will the US try to steal these masks, too? I was wondering about the wisdom of flying them into Chicago. Things will get very bad very quickly if this is the way Trump decides to play things.


If you have input at all andrewf, I would be raising this question with someone even if you have to phone them at home since it is the weekend. I would be surprised if this possibility is not already being discussed by the appropriate people in your company.

I certainly would not feel comfortable with masks going to Chicago after this announcement by Trump. I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that shipments are being hi-jacked.


----------



## Longtimeago

It would be interesting to hear what happens andrewf. Let us know.


----------



## andrewf

Honestly, my first thought was whether they should be diverted to the health care system. They were procured to protect front-line staff, but given the dire situation it sounds like Quebec is in (and probably across the country), I hope they are being deployed responsibly. I know the company leadership is in regular communication with the government so hopefully decisions at that level are being made appropriately! I know public health/government has been saying that millions more masks are being delivered 'in the coming days' for the health care system. I hope they are not just putting on a brave face to avoid causing panic!


----------



## m3s

Everybody is stockpiling ventilators and masks for themselves. This is why essential services such as healthcare should be managed by a centralized public government rather than distributed private companies competing for profit.

It's a rolling apex like a spreading fire. You want to direct the limited supply and distribution to where it is needed most at this time. Instead it is being directed to the wealthy and the fire will only grow larger before it gets to them

NY needs ventilators now. Oregon offered to lend 140 ventilators to NY. This is how it should work and should be managed by a centralized government (it is not, in the US we see how the states mostly fend for themselves)

When the fire gets to Oregon maybe NY will be able to send them ventilators. In the US the hospitals don't even coordinate with each other because they are all private competing companies. If they were more centralized they would be in much better shape.


----------



## andrewf

I made a couple of calls. Apparently this was already flagged as a concern and we have diverted the freight previously planned to arrive in Chicago to now fly into Vancouver and an unspecified airport in the US. Not sure if we are planning to smuggle them out of the US. Amazing that it has come to this...

Air freight is tough at the moment as the reduction in passenger flights has sharply cut supply.


----------



## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> If you have input at all andrewf, I would be raising this question with someone even if you have to phone them at home since it is the weekend. I would be surprised if this possibility is not already being discussed by the appropriate people in your company.
> 
> I certainly would not feel comfortable with masks going to Chicago after this announcement by Trump. I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that shipments are being hi-jacked.


They're not being hijacked.
The products are just under export restriction.


----------



## m3s

andrewf said:


> Air freight is tough at the moment as the reduction in passenger flights has sharply cut supply.


Many "non essential" sports/entertainment teams/personalities have jets and trucks. For example NE Patriots owner bought masks, sent the Patriots jet to get them from China and ended up diverting it all to NY in the NE Patriots truck.

Military has large fleets of large air cargo available and the central HQ that is used to coordinating mayhem and emergency logistics. Boeing offered the US government their massive Dreamlifter plane that normally transports plane parts

Logistics shouldn't be the bottleneck if only it was centrally coordinated, prioritized and deconflicted. There is massive duplication of effort with everyone fending for themselves and competing against each other


----------



## andrewf

bbc.com/news/world-52161995

Should other countries be nationalizing US health care company operations in their countries to prevent these antics?


----------



## andrewf

m3s said:


> Many "non essential" sports/entertainment teams/personalities have jets and trucks. For example NE Patriots owner bought masks, sent the Patriots jet to get them from China and ended up diverting it all to NY in the NE Patriots truck.
> 
> Military has large fleets of large air cargo available and the central HQ that is used to coordinating mayhem and emergency logistics. Boeing offered the US government their massive Dreamlifter plane that normally transports plane parts
> 
> Logistics shouldn't be the bottleneck if only it was centrally coordinated, prioritized and deconflicted. There is massive duplication of effort with everyone fending for themselves and competing against each other


Apple is still flying iPhones from China. We are not at a place where global logistics resources are being reserved for transport of essential medical goods.


----------



## sags

Come on people. Trump's son in law is now in charge of the medical supply chain. Have some faith.

His vast experience and superior knowledge have led him to his destiny as the US Supply Chain Czar.

After all, he was born into a rich family, married a rich girl, and labors as an errand boy for her father.

What more credentials are necessary ?


----------



## m3s

andrewf said:


> Apple is still flying iPhones from China. We are not at a place where global logistics resources are being reserved for transport of essential medical goods.


All the schools are shut down and the hottest device for home school is the iPad. Apple sales boomed during the lockdown in China because everyone is at home on their iPads and iPhones etc

However with all the entertainment events cancelled there is clearly a massive glut of air transport available. Militaries started to cancel training since Jan so there is a glut of military air cargo

Masks are very small and light for transport. It's more a matter of central prioritization. X regions needs X mask YESTERDAY and Y region needs Y masks TOMORROW and Z needs Z next week etc

Everyone thinks they themselves are the highest priority TODAY. For example US hijacking masks from Germany who had the outbreak before the US. US probably does need masks before Canada to be fair


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> Come on people. Trump's son in law is now in charge of the medical supply chain. Have some faith.
> 
> His vast experience and superior knowledge have led him to his destiny as the US Supply Chain Czar.
> 
> After all, he was born into a rich family, married a rich girl, and labors as an errand boy for her father.
> 
> What more credentials are necessary ?


To be fair, he has more qualifications than Trudeau.


----------



## MrMatt

Prairie Guy said:


> To be fair, he has more qualifications than Trudeau.


Trudeaus Daddy was super duper famous.


----------



## Eder

andrewf said:


> Apple is still flying iPhones from China. We are not at a place where global logistics resources are being reserved for transport of essential medical goods.


As well we are flying thousands of Mexican foreign workers in the next few months as well.


----------



## m3s

There is air transport and air crews available. There's a lack of a coordinated effort and local manufacturing

A lot of the outdoor/hiking companies I follow switched to sewing masks/gowns. Most I know of are USA based

I just googled Arcteryx (based in Vancouver) and indeed they are now making medical grade gowns in Canada


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/arcteryx/comments/fugp1k


----------



## capricorn

Prairie Guy said:


> The media failed to trap Trump with a "gotcha" question, but they sure did suck you in. I explained my answer, unlike you. Perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.


Also, how is this any different than India and China restricting exports of PPE and pharma active ingredients till they felt situation was in control on home turf. 
Trump is practicing "charity begins at home". Taking care of largest infected population needs some unpopular decisions.


----------



## m3s

Considering that NYC alone is about to surpass the whole of Italy and Canada is still far far behind and much less concentrated..

The way Cuomo put it today that we need to pool resources where the fire is today and then move those resources where the fire is tomorrow

I agree Canada might not need those masks today as badly as USA does today. At the same time though a lack of foresight and preparedness one's own fault


----------



## sags

Eder said:


> As well we are flying thousands of Mexican foreign workers in the next few months as well.


That is good if you like eating. The farmers were worried they had no labor to pick the food in the fields.

Foreign workers usually live on the farms and can be self quarantined there, while they work here. They don't want COVID either.

They will be thrilled to work so they can take money home to their families. They will make sure nobody jeopardizes their jobs.


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> That is good if you like eating. The farmers were worried they had no labor to pick the food in the fields.


Are you suggesting that none of the millions/tens of millions of people out of a job would take work in the fields?


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Are you suggesting that none of the millions/tens of millions of people out of a job would take work in the fields?


Nope. Canadians are too good to pick in fields. It is hard work, and Canadians aren't willing to do it. Let's see you work in the fields for a season. You can make whatever noises you want, but none of that is going to get fields planted. All your wishing that waiters and Forever 21 clerks will all of a sudden move to the country and work farms is a bunch of BS that will result in fallow fields and reduced crop yields. Your concerns are duly noted and discarded.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Nope. Canadians are too good to pick in fields. It is hard work, and Canadians aren't willing to do it. Let's see you work in the fields for a season. You can make whatever noises you want, but none of that is going to get fields planted. All your wishing that waiters and Forever 21 clerks will all of a sudden move to the country and work farms is a bunch of BS that will result in fallow fields and reduced crop yields. Your concerns are duly noted and discarded.


I don't have to work in the fields, I'm financially secure and retired. But if I had a family to support I would work in the fields...even if my 58-year old back would protest after the first hour. In fact, when I was 19 I spent an entire summer working on a farm (unpaid) to help my friend's dad who had health issues.

Maybe you would never stoop to menial labour such as farming...obviously it's beneath you and your sense of superiority. But not everyone thinks that they're too good for manual labour or farming, and there are a lot of out of work people that would gladly work if they could find it.


----------



## Longtimeago

Eder said:


> As well we are flying thousands of Mexican foreign workers in the next few months as well.


And why is that Eder? Answer, because Canadians are unwilling to do the work, they'd rather collect EI or their welfare cheques.


----------



## sags

Putting people into the fields who are unable to do the work accomplishes nothing.

The supply chain is challenged, and we need the most experienced and productive workers in the fields.

That would be experienced foreign workers. The farmers know the people who work for them every year and want them back.


----------



## Longtimeago

capricorn said:


> Also, how is this any different than India and China restricting exports of PPE and pharma active ingredients till they felt situation was in control on home turf.
> Trump is practicing "charity begins at home". Taking care of largest infected population needs some unpopular decisions.


In fact many countries have instituted a a version of 'what's made here, stays here' capricorn. France stopped a shipment of masks to the UK for example. Germany stopped a shipment that was just passing through to Switzerland.








Countries race to limit, ban exports of masks, ventilators, other gear


Individual governments are defending decisions to keep medical equipment at home, arguing they must take care of their own first.




www.marketplace.org





But that is not the same as having people show up on the tarmac in OTHER countries, waving cash and buying masks at inflated prices. I don't know of any other countries that are doing that, only the USA. One of the reasons why some countries have banned exports is because the suppliers were being offered inflated prices to sell outside of their own countries and unfortunately, were willing to do so.

If Trump and his government were just banning exports OUT of the USA, they would be no worse than many other countries. But when you start stealing food your neighbour has bought and paid for by intercepting the food before it can get to your neighbour, that is stepping well over the line. That is what is happening.

Imagine if you are self-isolating and order some groceries delivered from your supermarket. The delivery is sent out from the supermarket and on the way to your house, someone steps out from the side of the road and offers the driver an extra $100 to deliver it to their house instead. Would you consider that an HONOURABLE thing for someone to do?

Loyalty to your own family or country is a reason to do many things to protect them but loyalty comes above all else EXCEPT honour. 

'Loyalty above all else except honour' is a phrase that has been used practically forever. Here is how a school teacher explained it to students.

_"What to say when a "friend" says,

if you were really my friend you would shoplift with me, lie for me, have sex with me, commit vandalism with me, cheat for me, smoke dope with me, steal for me ...

I told kids to tell their "friends", if you were my friend, you wouldn't ask me to do something I think is wrong; simply to prove my friendship;"_

In other words, you do not sacrifice your honour for loyalty. Honour comes above loyalty.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> I don't have to work in the fields, I'm financially secure and retired. But if I had a family to support I would work in the fields...even if my 58-year old back would protest after the first hour. In fact, when I was 19 I spent an entire summer working on a farm (unpaid) to help my friend's dad who had health issues.
> 
> Maybe you would never stoop to menial labour such as farming...obviously it's beneath you and your sense of superiority. But not everyone thinks that they're too good for manual labour or farming, and there are a lot of out of work people that would gladly work if they could find it.


I grew up on a family farm. Obviously. We didn't use temporary foreign workers, but saw lots of others who did.

Your wishes and dreams won't get fields planted. So, the government is going to wisely allow TFW to come to Canada to work on farms. Nothing has ever or will ever stop Canadians from applying to work on farms _if they so choose_. The vast majority will find it is not for them if they even try it. My point is that right wing fever dreams of low income Canadians toiling in the fields rather than receiving unemployment in the current circumstances are not useful. This is a serious situation, and only serious solutions can be entertained.


----------



## kcowan

If think that is the problem in the White House. No one has enough commitment to honour.


----------



## MrMatt

Prairie Guy said:


> Are you suggesting that none of the millions/tens of millions of people out of a job would take work in the fields?


No, but the millions out of the job are.
1. Not skilled to do the work.
2. Used to that type of physical labour, and therefore physically not able to do it.
4. Willing to work, when they can get 55% or 75% of their pay to netflix and chill. Why take the pay cut?

Are you actually suggesting a retail store clerk in Toronto will go move to the country, operate heavy equipment, move heavy items, and work long hours for only slightly more than they make sitting at home?

If so, I think you haven't dealt with people lately.


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> Putting people into the fields who are unable to do the work accomplishes nothing.
> 
> The supply chain is challenged, and we need the most experienced and productive workers in the fields.
> 
> That would be experienced foreign workers. The farmers know the people who work for them every year and want them back.


Anyone can learn to plant and pick in a couple hours. Farmers want the foreigners back beause they work for less money, not because they have superior skills.

If a farmer has the choice between paying citizens a little more or letting crops rot in the fields, then they'll pay a little more. People like you might have to pay a little bit more for fruit and veggies but that's better than paying people to stay home unemployed.


----------



## Prairie Guy

MrMatt said:


> No, but the millions out of the job are.
> 1. Not skilled to do the work.
> 2. Used to that type of physical labour, and therefore physically not able to do it.
> 4. Willing to work, when they can get 55% or 75% of their pay to netflix and chill. Why take the pay cut?
> 
> Are you actually suggesting a retail store clerk in Toronto will go move to the country, operate heavy equipment, move heavy items, and work long hours for only slightly more than they make sitting at home?
> 
> If so, I think you haven't dealt with people lately.


Of course they all won't go, but some will. Not everyone is lazy or has a sense of entitlement.


----------



## MrMatt

Prairie Guy said:


> Of course they all won't go, but some will. Not everyone is lazy or has a sense of entitlement.


Sure, but how many of the unemployed do you think have the skills to do the work?
Do you know how to run a tractor?
Do you even know how to set it up and tune it for the various tasks?


----------



## Longtimeago

kcowan said:


> If think that is the problem in the White House. No one has enough commitment to honour.


LOL, Trump wouldn't know what honour was if it bit him in the butt.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Anyone can learn to plant and pick in a couple hours. Farmers want the foreigners back beause they work for less money, not because they have superior skills.
> 
> If a farmer has the choice between paying citizens a little more or letting crops rot in the fields, then they'll pay a little more. People like you might have to pay a little bit more for fruit and veggies but that's better than paying people to stay home unemployed.


Or those farms all go bankrupt and we start importing food from places where they allow TFW. Canada will be so much better off having Mexicans pick the apples we eat in Washington State instead of in Niagara or Okanagan. Farmers can't just charge a bit more--they are selling commodities. They are by and large price takers.


----------



## MrMatt

Prairie Guy said:


> Anyone can learn to plant and pick in a couple hours. Farmers want the foreigners back beause they work for less money, not because they have superior skills.
> 
> If a farmer has the choice between paying citizens a little more or letting crops rot in the fields, then they'll pay a little more. People like you might have to pay a little bit more for fruit and veggies but that's better than paying people to stay home unemployed.


Quite simply, no you can't simply learn how to set up and operate and tune all the equipment in a couple of hours.

Picking is hard work, that most people don't want to do, and they won't because of UBI, aka netflix and chill money.
I've picked fruit for a few hours, it sucks, I'm older now, and now it really sucks.


----------



## andrewf

There is no UBI money. All the programs we have right now are different versions of EI/welfare that require you not to work to earn benefits. So precisely the opposite of UBI.

I will say this every time someone calls it UBI, because it aint UBI. UBI would be a 'citizen dividend' that everyone got as taxable income, regardless of circumstances. Depending on how bad things get, I think this would not be a terrible idea as an alternative to QE. If anything, the carbon tax refunds are closer to UBI than anything else Canada is doing at the moment.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> There is no UBI money. All the programs we have right now are different versions of EI/welfare that require you not to work to earn benefits. So precisely the opposite of UBI.
> 
> I will say this every time someone calls it UBI, because it aint UBI. UBI would be a 'citizen dividend' that everyone got as taxable income, regardless of circumstances. Depending on how bad things get, I think this would not be a terrible idea as an alternative to QE. If anything, the carbon tax refunds are closer to UBI than anything else Canada is doing at the moment.


I actually think a cash handout to citizens would be better than this mishmash of programs. But the government loves their red tape.

Just give everyone $1-2k/month, then if they make over $X this year, claw it back at tax time.
I'd say $100k to $150k in income should be the clawback.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> I actually think a cash handout to citizens would be better than this mishmash of programs. But the government loves their red tape.
> 
> Just give everyone $1-2k/month, then if they make over $X this year, claw it back at tax time.
> I'd say $100k to $150k in income should be the clawback.


I would be less generous. Just treat it as taxable income. For that matter, make it a loan for now, no questions asked. We can decide later what to forgive or request repayment for. People just need liquidity/cash flow to take care of themselves.


----------



## Beaver101

Prairie Guy said:


> The US stockpile is so the feds can disperse it to help all of the states that need help when neccesary. I'm not sure why that bothers you? It's not like they're holding it back and refusing to help those that need help.


 .. really? Have you actually read and "understood" the article? The states as in the United States of America (and not the fake version of M"A"GA) are already screaming that they're running out of medical goods/equipment and in dire need of that "stockpile" (aka back-up) from the Feds in which case the "Our" stockpile belongs to the Dump's family.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> .. really? Have you actually read and "understood" the article? The states as in the United States of America (and not the fake version of M"A"GA) are already screaming that they're running out of medical goods/equipment and in dire need of that "stockpile" (aka back-up) from the Feds in which case the "Our" stockpile belongs to the Dump's family.


Is there anything that you won't believe if it fits your already made up mind?


----------



## Beaver101

Prairie Guy said:


> *Is there anything that you won't believe if it fits your already made up mind?*


 ... same of you.

Trump Admin. Distributed Far Less Than 1% Of N95 Masks It Estimated Was Needed For Pandemic



> Since you're not going to read the article as you have made up your mind already as well, here's MAGA:
> 
> The Department of Health and Human Services said the Trump administration did not distribute supplies from the National Strategic Stockpile to states based on their individual needs during the coronavirus pandemic, according to the House Oversight and Reform Committee.
> 
> HHS also told the oversight committee that there was no more personal protective equipment, or PPE, that could be distributed to the states because the Trump administration had already sent out its last shipments.
> The remaining 10% of PPE is reserved for federal workers and will not be distributed to states, HHS staff told the committee.
> 
> “Now that the national stockpile has been depleted of critical equipment, *it appears that the Administration is leaving states to fend for themselves, to scour the open market for these scarce supplies, and to compete with each other and federal agencies in a chaotic, free-for-all bidding war,”* committee chairwoman Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (D-N.Y.) said in a statement. ...


 ... don't you just love the Dump. Just waiting for the riots to happen in the free-for-all-MAGA.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Nice spin by Huffpo...they distributed less than 1% of the "estimated" needs. What were the actual needs? And why did Obama refuse to replenish the mask stockpile that he depleted during SARS? And why did NY fail to obtain the ventilators they knew they needed years ago instead of putting it off?

Imagine if Trump had listened to the WHO and the Democrats and well into March told people to live normally and not wear a mask. Millions would be dead. But Trump acted quickly and people like Beaver and a couple others keep posting cherry picked facts and outright falsehoods to push their alt-left agenda.


----------



## MrMatt

Prairie Guy said:


> Nice spin by Huffpo...they distributed less than 1% of the "estimated" needs. What were the actual needs? And why did Obama refuse to replenish the mask stockpile that he depleted during SARS? And why did NY fail to obtain the ventilators they knew they needed years ago instead of putting it off?
> 
> Imagine if Trump had listened to the WHO and the Democrats and well into March told people to live normally and not wear a mask. Millions would be dead. But Trump acted quickly and people like Beaver and a couple others keep posting cherry picked facts and outright falsehoods to push their alt-left agenda.


All the experts in infectious diesease and pandemics say "act fast, correct course later"
If you wait for the data, you're acting too late.

I don't like Trump, and I think he's doing some things wrong. But he's acting, and some of his actions are right. Cancelling travel to China was a good call. We should have locked down travel sooner.

I think part of the reason is that he's trying to be positive and hopeful, arguably to the point of misleading, but that's his approach.

I don't think the public in Ontario or much of the US would have accepted cancelling March break travel plans, starting off this whole mass isolation with widespread rejection of the distancing measures would have been bad.
Air travel is much easier to shut down than private vehicles, they should have done that sooner..

I think the current governments in Canada and the US are doing okay, and it's quite apparent that somewhere after SARS, the seemed to stop worrying about pandemics. I don't think it was a political party, it just didn't seem pressing so they didn't focus on it.


----------



## Eder

You get elected by promising "free stuff" not by stockpiling ventilators.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Nice spin by Huffpo...they distributed less than 1% of the "estimated" needs. What were the actual needs? And why did Obama refuse to replenish the mask stockpile that he depleted during SARS? And why did NY fail to obtain the ventilators they knew they needed years ago instead of putting it off?
> 
> Imagine if Trump had listened to the WHO and the Democrats and well into March told people to live normally and not wear a mask. Millions would be dead. But Trump acted quickly and people like Beaver and a couple others keep posting cherry picked facts and outright falsehoods to push their alt-left agenda.


Trump has been president for over 3 years. He can't keep blaming Obama for everything. Trump never takes accountability for anything.


----------



## dave2012

andrewf said:


> Trump has been president for over 3 years. He can't keep blaming Obama for everything. Trump never takes accountability for anything.


Actually he doesn't just blame Obama. He blames China, WHO, the governors in blue states, mayors, ANYBODY but him and he explicitly said that he does not take responsibility when asked. He is more concerned with higher ratings than the Bachelor Finale then peoples lives (he obsessed about that for 2 days lol). He says he banned all flights from China but 430,000 people have traveled from China to the US since the outbreak.

He does dwell on the past a lot. If anything goes wrong he always goes back to the 'I inherited a mess' rerun. He knew in January and did nothing till the end of March while still calling it the flu/dem hoax. Not sure if he has blamed Hillary's emails yet.

I wonder what he will say in todays 6pm word salad...


----------



## Longtimeago

dave2012 said:


> I wonder what he will say in todays 6pm word salad...


LOL, well whatever he says I will bet cold hard cash $1000 to your $1 that it will contain an inordinate amount of superlatives. He often even doubles and even triples them up in just one sentence. I sometimes wonder if he can say a sentence without including, 'the biggest, the greatest, etc.









Examples of Superlative Adjectives


Superlative adjectives are used with multiple nouns to show degrees of comparison. See how superlative examples can show concepts like greatest and least.




examples.yourdictionary.com


----------



## Longtimeago

Now Trumpet is talking about firing Dr. Fauci because he said something Trumpet didn't like hearing.

The USA now has the record for every Covid19 statistic. I'm surprised the Trumpet isn't finding a way to crow about his 'incredibly great' self about that. 

Asked where he was getting the information that made him decide they should start opening things up at the end of this month, he tapped a finger against the side of his head and said, 'right here'. Clearly he knows better than all the experts. It must be wonderful to know you know it all.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Longtimeago said:


> Now Trumpet is talking about firing Dr. Fauci because he said something Trumpet didn't like hearing.


Or maybe because he's been wrong too many times? It was Fauci who said the risk was minimal well after Trump banned travel from China. That was 100% wrong. It was Fauci who said 1.7 million people would die. Etc.


----------



## potato69

Prairie Guy said:


> Or maybe because he's been wrong too many times? It was Fauci who said the risk was minimal well after Trump banned travel from China. That was 100% wrong. It was Fauci who said 1.7 million people would die. Etc.


1.7 million people would die if the economy wasn't shut down and physical distancing orders had not been put in place.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Dr Fauci on Mar 9: "cruises are okay"

Even people on this board knew on March 9 that cruises were a bad idea.


----------



## sags

Carnac the Magnificent.........knows all that can be known.

Carnac the Magnificent says........."lawsuits and criminal charges."

Carnac the Magnificent answers the question......."What happens after Trump is defeated in November ?"


----------



## Longtimeago

So Fauci caved under the threat of losing his job and backtracked yesterday. Rack up another 'win' for the Trumpet and his bullying tactics.

Now Trumpet is talking about withdrawing funding for the WHO because he doesn't like what they are saying. Somehow though I don't think WHO will give in to his bullying at all.

Biden is looking more and more like a landslide victor in their upcoming election to me. If he doesn't win, I will give up all confidence in the American public in general to be able to see the reality of just what Trumpet is and is NOT.


----------



## sags

Biden/Abrams looks like the ticket, and a very powerful one it would be.

_Former Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams says she would be "honored" to be chosen as former Vice President Joe Biden's running mate.
"I would be an excellent running mate," Abrams told Elle magazine in an interview published Wednesday.
"I have the capacity to attract voters by motivating typically ignored communities," Abrams said. "I have a strong history of executive and management experience in the private, public, and nonprofit sectors. I've spent 25 years in independent study of foreign policy. I am ready to help advance an agenda of restoring America's place in the world. If I am selected, I am prepared and excited to serve."_


----------



## Prairie Guy

Longtimeago said:


> So Fauci caved under the threat of losing his job and backtracked yesterday. Rack up another 'win' for the Trumpet and his bullying tactics.


More likely Fauci just corrected more false reporting by the media.



> Now Trumpet is talking about withdrawing funding for the WHO because he doesn't like what they are saying. Somehow though I don't think WHO will give in to his bullying at all.


Good for Trump. The WHO lied about the virus, ignored Taiwan when they told them back in December it was contagious, and they're basically just a mouthpiece for China. Too bad our PM doesn't have enough of a backbone to do the same.



> Biden is looking more and more like a landslide victor in their upcoming election to me. If he doesn't win, I will give up all confidence in the American public in general to be able to see the reality of just what Trumpet is and is NOT.


I can't wait to see Biden in a live debate with Trump. How will the media hide Biden's mental decline? He can't even put together one sentence without stumbling even with the help of a teleprompter. My guess is that they'll refuse to show any debate live so that they can selectively edit Biden.

And of course, the same dupes will fall for it.


----------



## Eder

I agree that Biden will need to overcome a lot, not the least of which will be Tara Reede controversy and the various kids he's been touching/sniffing over the years. Creeps me out. I feel sorry for Americans this election.


----------



## MrMatt

Eder said:


> I agree that Biden will need to overcome a lot, not the least of which will be Tara Reede controversy and the various kids he's been touching/sniffing over the years. Creeps me out. I feel sorry for Americans this election.


At BEST, he's repeatedly harrassed women.

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that it's sexually harrassment to, without consent, sniff a woman (or girls hair) and he's done it a number of times. In public, on camera.

I don't know what the DNC is thinking, last time they put a truly horrible candidate in, and Trump won.
This time they're putting in an even worse candidate. Say what you want about Hilary, but she is intelligent, coherent, and likely not a sex offender.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> At BEST, he's repeatedly harrassed women.
> 
> I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that it's sexually harrassment to, without consent, sniff a woman (or girls hair) and he's done it a number of times. In public, on camera.
> 
> I don't know what the DNC is thinking, last time they put a truly horrible candidate in, and Trump won.
> This time they're putting in an even worse candidate. Say what you want about Hilary, but she is intelligent, coherent, and likely not a sex offender.


Can Trump really attack him on this, given the allegations of much worse against him?


----------



## Money172375

Kelly Anne Conway sort of implied today that the WHO wasn’t be transparent....”c’mon, it’s covid19, not covid1.”

she made it Sound as if the WHO should have learned things through the first 18 iterations of the virus.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> Can Trump really attack him on this, given the allegations of much worse against him?


Trump is bad, but he's lucid.
Biden is senile, and he's creepy as f*Y^(^**.

I wasn't aware of any legitimate rape allegations against Trump. But that's beside the point.

Trump was horrible, and he's detestable in any number of ways. It isn't like there is going to be some sudden news where he'll suddenly become unacceptable to his supporters.

The thing is there were a lot of acceptable candidates running, why they went for Biden is beyond me.


----------



## andrewf

There is a Wikipedia entry on the subject.








Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





I'm shocked that Biden won. I think he was one of the worst candidates the DNC could have picked.


----------



## Eder

I think Biden won because all the new woke lefty candidates ruined the process ...the Dem's are as dumb as our Canadian Con's...no strategy.


----------



## Beaver101

Wow, just wow ... Tension mounts in U.S. over plans to reopen the economy as Trump appears to encourage protests ... exactly who is Dump suggesting Americans be liberated from???? 

I hope JT keep our borders closed for the rest of the year.


----------



## sags

Could Trump be trying to create chaos to create an excuse for declaring martial law and deferring the November election ?

Is there a method to his madness ?


----------



## sags

Biden is building an impressive team, including Timothy Geithner who led the US through the Great Recession.

I am thinking Biden needs a strong black woman candidate who resonates in blue collar States. Stacey Abrams fits the profile perfectly.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> There is a Wikipedia entry on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm shocked that Biden won. I think he was one of the worst candidates the DNC could have picked.


I'm not, they have Trump Derangement Syndrom.
They honestly believe that Trump is so obviously bad, they could run someone like Hilary Clinton, or Creepy Joe Biden, and win.

The same thing with the Liberal-brainwashed, just look here. They've actually got the same "logic".

Biden is a senile old man, who is notorious for sniffing and groping women and girls without their consent, even on camera. Apparently in their world that is just fine, and he's clearly an OK guy who would never do such a thing. 

Contrast that to Kavanaugh, who is arguably the most pro female man ever put forth onto the supreme court.
The accusations against him were enough to almost derail his nomination, despite, no evidence, no witnesses, and an accuser who was found to be blatantly lying. To top it off, on the few details that they claimed, he provided documentation and witnesses that he wasn't there at that time.

The thing is that they have their opinion, and they're suffering from massive confirmation bias.
Trump is bad so everything he says is to be interpreted in the worst possible way.
It doesn't help that he's a loudmouth, and says stupid stuff a lot.
But he is occasionally right 

The same thing is happening with some posters here.
They don't like Ford, so they'll blame him for things the Liberals did.
They love Trudeau, so even when he's caught blatantly lying, or accepting bribes, or violating conflict of interest guidelines, they somehow feel that his behaviour is ok and excusable.

It's a blind spot, one of the most common ones, and they're exploiting it ceaselessly.
It's like all the colleges and universities that will violently protest someone who challenges their world view.

The scariest thing in the world to these guys is an idea that they don't agree with, they don't have the intellectual processes to understand it.


I don't like Trump, I don't think it's prudent to open up the whole US economy, but maybe parts should.
This is EXACTLY the same proposal that Trudeau and the premiers are discussing.
If you can't see the parallels, you're blind.

I do think it is reasonable that some jurisdictions that are unscathed should consider opening up if they can.
For example in Canada Saskatechwan and the terrirtories are considering it, maybe Wyoming or North Dakota should remain open.
Some communities that are clean (reserves for instance) likely can operate more normally. This is just logical.


----------



## james4beach

Beaver101 said:


> Wow, just wow ... Tension mounts in U.S. over plans to reopen the economy as Trump appears to encourage protests ... exactly who is Dump suggesting Americans be liberated from????
> 
> I hope JT keep our borders closed for the rest of the year.



This is just standard American stupidity, and it will cost lives both in US & Canada.

We'd better keep the US border closed for a long time, because those nuts down south are going to keep spreading the disease for a long time.


----------



## MrMatt

Beaver101 said:


> Wow, just wow ... Tension mounts in U.S. over plans to reopen the economy as Trump appears to encourage protests ... exactly who is Dump suggesting Americans be liberated from????
> 
> I hope JT keep our borders closed for the rest of the year.


Some Governors may have gone a bit too far with their restrictions.

In my opinion, if they're leaving the Pot & Liquor stores open, and closing nurseries (ie where you can buy food plants). They've gone too far. 

In terms of common ground, can we agree that it should be legal to buy a tomato plant, or at least lettuce seeds and potting soil?


----------



## Eder

Thx Matt for taking the time to write that lucid post. Unfortunately it is apt to be unpopular as it chafes at preconceptions that have been fertilized in years of BS.


----------



## MrMatt

Eder said:


> Thx Matt for taking the time to write that lucid post. Unfortunately it is apt to be unpopular as it chafes at preconceptions that have been fertilized in years of BS.


Well I honestly think the biggest problem is that nobody wants to actually discuss the issues.

I think the protestor mobs in Michigan are a bad idea.
Bu the Governor did go to far, and there are legitimate grievances.

The problem with blocking hospitals was in all likelihood "collateral damage" of the protest, just like the increase in domestic violence was "collateral damage" from the quarantine measures.
I think for the most part, EVERYONE is doing the best they can, that doesn't mean they're all in agreement every step of the way.

I really don't like how people ascribe ill intent to people honestly doing their best.
However with that I do feel people are trying to take advantage of the situation.. and this is going on across all groups.


----------



## Longtimeago

OK, can anyone try to seriously suggest to me that Trump is not stupid?

His latest idea is to suggest to the medical people that they could investigate injecting disinfectant into patients. His logic is impeccable. Disinfectant kills the virus in a minute. So if you inject it into people it will clean the virus out of their body in minutes. Uh huh, makes sense to Trump.

Now who wants to have a Clorox bleach injecting party? Any takers?


----------



## sags

The makers of Clorox felt compelled to issue a statement.

_"As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstances should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body (through injection, ingestion, or any other route)"_


----------



## Beaver101

Longtimeago said:


> OK, can anyone try to seriously suggest to me that Trump is not stupid?
> ...


 ... his brilliant SIL with the "our" stockpile.


----------



## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> OK, can anyone try to seriously suggest to me that Trump is not stupid?
> 
> His latest idea is to suggest to the medical people that they could investigate injecting disinfectant into patients. His logic is impeccable. Disinfectant kills the virus in a minute. So if you inject it into people it will clean the virus out of their body in minutes. Uh huh, makes sense to Trump.
> 
> Now who wants to have a Clorox bleach injecting party? Any takers?


I'll suggest he isn't stupid.
He won the US presidential election.

As far as injecting disinfectant, that's not quite what he said. Read the transcript.
See the full video and transcript of Trump suggesting disinfectant might be injected as a coronavirus cure

I think it was poorly spoken, but it's absolutely being reported in a somewhat misleading way by the media.

Secondly, it SHOULD be investigated, particularly UV.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3797459/
Ultraviolet Irradiation of Blood: “The Cure That Time Forgot”?

If UV blood cleaning can treat pneumonia, that might be a treatment for COVID19.


Trump likes to talk too much. He should take a lesson from Doug Ford who spends most of the press conferences stepping back to let ministers answer questions.


----------



## Eder

I just used an oral product that contains bleach...(peroxide)...not too uncommon.Most people probably brushed their teeth with a product containing bleach. Of course no media will mention that lol

Research into a nasal spray containing bleach is in progress to combat infections.


----------



## MrMatt

Eder said:


> I just used an oral product that contains bleach...(peroxide)...not too uncommon.Most people probably brushed their teeth with a product containing bleach. Of course no media will mention that lol
> 
> Research into a nasal spray containing bleach is in progress to combat infections.


I'd have thought that chlorine is bad. 

I'm sure they're trying all possible vectors, I've heard that they're trying alcohol vapour, which is a dangerous way to consume alcohol, but apparently Coronaviruses are very vulnerable to alcohol (which is why hand sanitizer works).

Sounds crazy, but the media love to take the most insane interpretation of Trump, which is why they're losing credibility.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Once again the usual suspects are duped by fake news. Not once will they ever read the full transcript first and then make an effort to comprehend it. Nope...that's too hard. They'll just read a headline and get outraged. Of course, the media relies on their laziness and gullibility and they're never disappointed.


----------



## sags

They are having a really difficult time trying to spin the live presentation and video that millions saw........but keep up the good work.


----------



## MrMatt

sags said:


> They are having a really difficult time trying to spin the live presentation and video that millions saw........but keep up the good work.


I don't see how they're having a hard time trying to spin it.
The fake story is all over the media, and even major manufactures have made statements like they think he said injection them with poison.

The gall of these people is amazing.


----------



## sags

Matt Drudge, who owns the very influential conservative Drudge Report and was a strong supporter of Trump has turned against him with a passion.

The latest "lysol injection" escapade is being excoriated on the website. Drudge is going full tilt against Trump and it is showing in the polls.

Trump now trails Biden in strong Republican states. Trump's time is up but Joe Biden may be right. He says Trump may try to cancel the election.





__





DRUDGE REPORT 2023®






www.drudgereport.com


----------



## MrMatt

sags said:


> Matt Drudge, who owns the very influential conservative Drudge Report and was a strong supporter of Trump has turned against him with a passion.
> 
> The latest "lysol injection" escapade is being excoriated on the website. Drudge is going full tilt against Trump and it is showing in the polls.
> 
> Trump now trails Biden in strong Republican states. Trump's time is up but Joe Biden may be right. He says Trump may try to cancel the election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DRUDGE REPORT 2023®
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.drudgereport.com


Lysol injection, you really are too much.


----------



## bgc_fan

Eder said:


> I just used an oral product that contains bleach...(peroxide)...


Hydrogen peroxide is not bleach, or what most people refer to bleach which is a dilute hypochlorite. You are not using hypochlorite in a toothpaste. Hydrogen peroxide is a lot more mild than chlorine based products.


----------



## jargey3000

FWIW..I'm no trump (or ANY politician) booster...he's a buffoon...but im inclined to side with mr matt's comments above. I think he (badly) misspoke here, again, ... "disinfectant" just kinda popped into his head & out his mouth...if he had said, I dunno, "medication" or "reagent" or "drug" or something, it wouldn't have come off so bad. He never did say "Lysol".
And, if only he had come out after, & said "Ok, I misspoke..I meant to say...".
Instead he says he was just being sarcastic.....What a maroon....


----------



## Longtimeago

I watched the press conference and saw and heard Trump with my own eyes and ears, suggest that they look into injecting disinfectant. There were no ifs ands or buts about it and his attempt now to backpedal and say he was being sarcastic simply shows more stupidity in thinking that people will believe that excuse.

He is not intelligent and has little in the way of general knowledge. He has put his foot in his mouth far too many times to try and say 'he mispoke' or words just 'popped into his head and out his mouth'. Try thinking of yourself having those same words just pop out of your mouth.

Think of them popping out of my mouth. New thread on CFM, 'Hey did you hear, Longtimeago wrote that we should try injecting a disinfectant to clean the body of the virus.' How would that play in this forum? You guys still trying to excuse Trump would be all over that like jam on bread.


----------



## sags

Trump didn't say it to mislead the American people. He comes by his stupidity honestly.


----------



## bgc_fan

jargey3000 said:


> FWIW..I'm no trump (or ANY politician) booster...he's a buffoon...but im inclined to side with mr matt's comments above. I think he (badly) misspoke here, again, ... "disinfectant" just kinda popped into his head & out his mouth...if he had said, I dunno, "medication" or "reagent" or "drug" or something, it wouldn't have come off so bad. He never did say "Lysol".
> And, if only he had come out after, & said "Ok, I misspoke..I meant to say...".
> Instead he says he was just being sarcastic.....What a maroon....


The problem is that he was serious. When he saw the public reaction, he said that he was sarcastic and wanted the press to report what he said as a joke, but it was evident from the presser that he meant it. And no, he didn't mean to say anything else. Previously, there was discussion use of bleach and UV light for EXTERNAL disinfection. He basically opened his mouth and mused, "imagine if we could use these for internal disinfection, you know, put it inside yourself".

Obviously he didn't SPECIFICALLY say to inject disinfectant; however, he always leaves his speeches deliberately vague so he can't be pinned down and take responsibility for how people interpret his words, which is ironic because his supporters keep saying that he's a straight shooter and tells it like it is. But when you look at his speeches, they are like a Rorschach test, you take however you want to interpret it. Defenders will say, "He was suggesting that his team investigate the possibility of a treatment like this", haters will say, "He was telling people to ingest bleach".

It's evident that he is incapable of learning, or comprehending things. When he gets a brief, he picks up on "key" words, i.e. words he doesn't understand, but he thinks makes him seem smart if he uses them, and repeats them, along with bigly, stupendous, and great. He then uses them out of context and makes him look stupid as he tries to explain something that he actually doesn't know. You know, a typical BS artist. While it may work at a small scale in private dealings, it doesn't work on a national or global scale. I remember reading an article where a real estate developer dealt with Trump in the past. What he noticed is that Trump doesn't know anything (either that, or he wants people to like him so much, that he thinks that copying or agreeing with others will make them like him). The developer would make up real estate terms and phrases, and Trump would agree and start using them with other people.


----------



## MrMatt

bgc_fan said:


> The problem is that he was serious. When he saw the public reaction, he said that he was sarcastic and wanted the press to report what he said as a joke, but it was evident from the presser that he meant it. And no, he didn't mean to say anything else. Previously, there was discussion use of bleach and UV light for EXTERNAL disinfection. He basically opened his mouth and mused, "imagine if we could use these for internal disinfection, you know, put it inside yourself".
> 
> Obviously he didn't SPECIFICALLY say to inject disinfectant; however, he always leaves his speeches deliberately vague so he can't be pinned down and take responsibility for how people interpret his words, which is ironic because his supporters keep saying that he's a straight shooter and tells it like it is. But when you look at his speeches, they are like a Rorschach test, you take however you want to interpret it. Defenders will say, "He was suggesting that his team investigate the possibility of a treatment like this", haters will say, "He was telling people to ingest bleach".
> 
> It's evident that he is incapable of learning, or comprehending things. When he gets a brief, he picks up on "key" words, i.e. words he doesn't understand, but he thinks makes him seem smart if he uses them, and repeats them, along with bigly, stupendous, and great. He then uses them out of context and makes him look stupid as he tries to explain something that he actually doesn't know. You know, a typical BS artist. While it may work at a small scale in private dealings, it doesn't work on a national or global scale. I remember reading an article where a real estate developer dealt with Trump in the past. What he noticed is that Trump doesn't know anything (either that, or he wants people to like him so much, that he thinks that copying or agreeing with others will make them like him). The developer would make up real estate terms and phrases, and Trump would agree and start using them with other people.


We've actually used UV for "internal disinfection", specifically of blood.
It's a decades old technology, I linked to references.

Trump haters are going to hate.
I don't like the guy, but I'd prefer to demonize someone for what they actually did.


----------



## jargey3000

lol....one week i get crapped on for being a "trump hater"....next week I get flak for expressing my thoughts on his actions...oh well....
(BTW ltimeago... this may come as a surprise to you, and I can't speak for other cmf-ers, but to moi, your posts are no more important than those of any others...I dont wake up each morning dying to see what earth-shattering muses you might have made since my last visit.....)
oops! sorry. I was just being sarcastic!

Couple of other things I've noticed while watching his daily gong shows....

ever watch him, while the doctors or others speak? he tries so hard to look interested & like he's absorbing & analyzing everything said, but it's really like ' the lights on, but nobody's home'.
when he's commenting on the pandemic & the plans , govt programs etc. he's pretty monotone, almost detached... but get him going on trade deals, tariffs, the stock market, politics etc. & he really gets going!
the way he chooses who asks questions...waving his little fingers around til he lands on 'the chosen one' lol. They also need better reporters, ones who would more deftly know how to back him into a corner ( maybe they dont let those types in...I'd like to see him up against Rex Murphy for example)
anyway........if they're going to keep him off-stage from now on, maybe we've "won"?


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> We've actually used UV for "internal disinfection", specifically of blood.
> It's a decades old technology, I linked to references.


A couple of things:
One, it's a treatment that only sees use in Russia, make of that which you will.
Two, the treatment that is traditionally used is similar to kidney dialysis, i.e. you basically have to extract your blood, treat it with UV light, and then feed the blood back. This isn't exactly an easy treatment for those who are the most vulnerable, (i.e. elderly or have other underlying health issues), or a practical solution in a pandemic situation.


----------



## bgc_fan

jargey3000 said:


> lol....one week i get crapped on for being a "trump hater"....next week I get flak for expressing my thoughts on his actions...oh well....
> Couple of other things I've noticed while watching his daily gong shows....
> 
> ever watch him, while the doctors or others speak? he tries so hard to look interested & like he's absorbing & analyzing everything said, but it's really like ' the lights on, but nobody's home'.
> when he's commenting on the pandemic & the plans , govt programs etc. he's pretty monotone, almost detached... but get him going on trade deals, tariffs, the stock market, politics etc. & he really gets going!
> the way he chooses who asks questions...waving his little fingers around til he lands on 'the chosen one' lol. They also need better reporters, ones who would more deftly know how to back him into a corner ( maybe they dont let those types in...I'd like to see him up against Rex Murphy for example)
> anyway........if they're going to keep him off-stage from now on, maybe we've "won"?


I wasn't giving you flak. I was actually agreeing with you for the most part. I was adding some extra information to put Trump in context.


----------



## Prairie Guy

jargey3000 said:


> the way he chooses who asks questions...waving his little fingers around til he lands on 'the chosen one' lol. They also need better reporters, ones who would more deftly know how to back him into a corner ( maybe they dont let those types in...I'd like to see him up against Rex Murphy for example)
> anyway........if they're going to keep him off-stage from now on, maybe we've "won"?


Yes, better reporters are needed. Currently the almost exclusively left leaning reporters spend most of the time trying to trip Trump up with "gotcha" questions instead of asking questions that could provide solid information to the general public. The same press members tongue bathed Obama for 8 years and never once asked him a hard question. The fact that CNN still gets a seat is a disgrace. Trump could just ignore them but he lets them ask questions so they can embarrass themselves daily.


----------



## jargey3000

bgc_fan said:


> I wasn't giving you flak. I was actually agreeing with you for the most part. I was adding some extra information to put Trump in context.


no, I wasnt referring to you bgc😉


----------



## Eder

bgc_fan said:


> Hydrogen peroxide is not bleach, or what most people refer to bleach which is a dilute hypochlorite. You are not using hypochlorite in a toothpaste. Hydrogen peroxide is a lot more mild than chlorine based products.


I beg to differ...

*Hydrogen peroxide* (H2O2) is an oxidizing agent that can be used as laundry *bleach*. ... Just like other oxygen-based bleaches, *hydrogen peroxide* breaks down safely into water and oxygen and is a more environmentally-friendly *bleach* than chlorine *bleach* (sodium hypochlorite).


----------



## bgc_fan

Eder said:


> I beg to differ...
> 
> *Hydrogen peroxide* (H2O2) is an oxidizing agent that can be used as laundry *bleach*. ... Just like other oxygen-based bleaches, *hydrogen peroxide* breaks down safely into water and oxygen and is a more environmentally-friendly *bleach* than chlorine *bleach* (sodium hypochlorite).


Here's the thing. You're trying to twist yourself in knots to justify what Trump implied. In fact, that's what everyone who defends Trump does. When people talk about using bleach for external disinfection, it is primarily going to be chlorine bleach, not hydrogen peroxide. In fact, in context, that's what he's referring to as proceeding his segment, they were talking about using UV and bleach for external disinfection. Yes, you could use hydrogen peroxide, but it is significantly weaker and not going to be used commercially in hospital setting. Particularly the point where he stated, that it takes a minute to disinfect. Using hydrogen peroxide takes a factor of 10 longer exposure.

Oh, and now he says that he was being sarcastic and didn't mean what he said. So what is it? Are you going to defend what he said, or are you going to now say that he was joking and wasn't serious?


----------



## sags

Trump is pretty far gone. I wouldn't be surprised to see him show up at a press briefing without wearing any pants.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> I'll suggest he isn't stupid.
> He won the US presidential election.
> 
> As far as injecting disinfectant, that's not quite what he said. Read the transcript.
> See the full video and transcript of Trump suggesting disinfectant might be injected as a coronavirus cure
> 
> I think it was poorly spoken, but it's absolutely being reported in a somewhat misleading way by the media.
> 
> Secondly, it SHOULD be investigated, particularly UV.
> Ultraviolet Radiation in Wound Care: Sterilization and Stimulation
> Ultraviolet Irradiation of Blood: “The Cure That Time Forgot”?
> 
> If UV blood cleaning can treat pneumonia, that might be a treatment for COVID19.
> 
> 
> Trump likes to talk too much. He should take a lesson from Doug Ford who spends most of the press conferences stepping back to let ministers answer questions.


I'd argue he won the election more through savvy than intelligence. He does have a kind of base showbusiness intelligence of how things will play in the media.


----------



## MrMatt

sags said:


> Trump is pretty far gone. I wouldn't be surprised to see him show up at a press briefing without wearing any pants.


Even then, that would barely make him less competent than Biden.
I don't think Trump ever molested a minor on stage.

Say what you want about Canadian politicians, but I can't think of a politician as universally as distasteful as the guys they're running.
Trump, Hilary Clinton, Joe Biden?
300 million people, and that's the best you can do?


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> Trump likes to talk too much. He should take a lesson from Doug Ford who spends most of the press conferences stepping back to let ministers answer questions.


That's a function of his crippling narcissism. He can't stand for someone else to be hogging the spotlight. Also why all the administration officials have to start their remarks by praising Trump before actually delivering their message, lest he get offended by their performance on TV overshadowing his.


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> I just used an oral product that contains bleach...(peroxide)...not too uncommon.Most people probably brushed their teeth with a product containing bleach. Of course no media will mention that lol
> 
> Research into a nasal spray containing bleach is in progress to combat infections.


Peroxide is NOT bleach. Bleach is sodium hypochorite. Peroxide is also quite toxic if ingested or injected into the body. It is okay for topical applications in low enough concentrations.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> I'd have thought that chlorine is bad.
> 
> I'm sure they're trying all possible vectors, I've heard that they're trying alcohol vapour, which is a dangerous way to consume alcohol, but apparently Coronaviruses are very vulnerable to alcohol (which is why hand sanitizer works).
> 
> Sounds crazy, but the media love to take the most insane interpretation of Trump, which is why they're losing credibility.


Not sure how this could work, as you need alcohol concentration of 60% to kill coronavirus, and most of the virus particles are in contained in cells.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> We've actually used UV for "internal disinfection", specifically of blood.
> It's a decades old technology, I linked to references.
> 
> Trump haters are going to hate.
> I don't like the guy, but I'd prefer to demonize someone for what they actually did.


Instead of cherry-picking sources, try something fairly objective (wikipedia)





__





Blood irradiation therapy - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org







> Low-level laser therapy has been tested for a wide range of conditions, but rigorous double-blinded studies have not yet been performed.[6] Furthermore, it has been claimed that ultraviolet irradiation of blood kills bacteria by DNA damage and also activation of the immune system. However this procedure remains highly controversial.[1]


I don't think it is accurate to imply that this is widely used or accepted as effective. The evidence isn't there.


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> I beg to differ...
> 
> *Hydrogen peroxide* (H2O2) is an oxidizing agent that can be used as laundry *bleach*. ... Just like other oxygen-based bleaches, *hydrogen peroxide* breaks down safely into water and oxygen and is a more environmentally-friendly *bleach* than chlorine *bleach* (sodium hypochlorite).


I beg to differ. When people commonly refer to bleach, they mean sodium hypochlorite. That is why peroxide based products usually have some modifier on it like 'colour safe bleach'. Like 'plant based meat', In that it is NOT commonly referred to as bleach, but could be used as something of a substitute. You can differ, but you are differing from reality.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> I don't think Trump ever molested a minor on stage.


No, he creeps in their dressing rooms.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> No, he creeps in their dressing rooms.


I'm not aware of any credible accusations that Trump ever molested a minor.
I've seen Joe Biden do it.


----------



## sags

Funny to watch Fox News talk about opening everything up while they are all broadcasting safely from their homes.


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> Funny to watch Fox News talk about opening everything up while they are all broadcasting safely from their homes.


So, Fox people are following the rules as set out and are asking that things be opened up. They are being responsible even if they disagree with the rules.

On the other hand CNN's Cuomo breached the quarantine to get in a close contact argument with someone in public. Then he lied on camera 7 days after that and had a 14 day quarantine "coming out" event. CNN let him put that lie on air and never asked him to correct it or to apologize.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> I'm not aware of any credible accusations that Trump ever molested a minor.
> I've seen Joe Biden do it.











Former Miss Arizona says Donald Trump used to 'stroll in' to see naked women in dressing room


Mr Trump said on Howard Stern’s radio show in 2005 that he could ‘get away’ with walking into the dressing room to ‘inspect’ beautiful women




www.independent.co.uk












Teen Beauty Queens Say Trump Walked In On Them Changing


“Don’t worry, ladies, I’ve seen it all before.”




www.buzzfeednews.com





5 contestants from Miss Teen USA recall Trump entering their dressing room. Are you saying all 5 are not credible? What would constitute proof for you?


----------



## Eder

bgc_fan said:


> Here's the thing. You're trying to twist yourself in knots to justify what Trump implied. In fact, that's what everyone who defends Trump does. When people talk about using bleach for external disinfection, it is primarily going to be chlorine bleach, not hydrogen peroxide. In fact, in context, that's what he's referring to as proceeding his segment, they were talking about using UV and bleach for external disinfection. Yes, you could use hydrogen peroxide, but it is significantly weaker and not going to be used commercially in hospital setting. Particularly the point where he stated, that it takes a minute to disinfect. Using hydrogen peroxide takes a factor of 10 longer exposure.
> 
> Oh, and now he says that he was being sarcastic and didn't mean what he said. So what is it? Are you going to defend what he said, or are you going to now say that he was joking and wasn't serious?



Ok I see...when I heard about the bleach thing I just got to thinking do I ingest bleach already. I guess I do. I guess i just like to hear speculation on Covid treatments ....just look at Canada...we just started a hydroxy nation wide clinical trial about a month after people were laughing at the idea. We are just starting to wear masks months after laughing at Korea for doing it.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> Former Miss Arizona says Donald Trump used to 'stroll in' to see naked women in dressing room
> 
> 
> Mr Trump said on Howard Stern’s radio show in 2005 that he could ‘get away’ with walking into the dressing room to ‘inspect’ beautiful women
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.independent.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teen Beauty Queens Say Trump Walked In On Them Changing
> 
> 
> “Don’t worry, ladies, I’ve seen it all before.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.buzzfeednews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 contestants from Miss Teen USA recall Trump entering their dressing room. Are you saying all 5 are not credible? What would constitute proof for you?


Yes it's inappropriate, but that's still not the same as physically touching young children.


----------



## bgc_fan

Eder said:


> Ok I see...when I heard about the bleach thing I just got to thinking do I ingest bleach already. I guess I do. I guess i just like to hear speculation on Covid treatments ....just look at Canada...we just started a hydroxy nation wide clinical trial about a month after people were laughing at the idea. We are just starting to wear masks months after laughing at Korea for doing it.


Dosage is everything. The amount of hydrogen peroxide in toothpaste is minimal. But again, you're trying to put words and intent into Trump's mouth to justify anything that he says. The amount of reaching to find obscure references to justify that Trump is correct is amazing.

As far as hydroxychloroquinone is concerned, no one was laughing about the usage in a clinical TRIAL. The issue was promoting it as a cure-all without evidence. You may not think that's a big deal, but the minute you try to focus on one solution, you tend to overlook other options. That's particularly important considering that current trials have had mixed results (sure, it has great efficiency, when you remove patients who died from the study after the fact). The other problem that develops is that now you've increased the demand for a drug that is used for other, proven usage which means that people who are dependent on it, i.e. have lupus, are now facing shortages.

As for wearing masks, I've already said it was a cultural thing, and how many people were actually laughing that others were wearing masks? If there was any laughing about masks, it was more about the improvised ones coming from China with people using oranges or bras.


----------



## MrMatt

bgc_fan said:


> Dosage is everything. The amount of hydrogen peroxide in toothpaste is minimal. But again, you're trying to put words and intent into Trump's mouth to justify anything that he says. The amount of reaching to find obscure references to justify that Trump is correct is amazing.
> 
> As far as hydroxychloroquinone is concerned, no one was laughing about the usage in a clinical TRIAL. The issue was promoting it as a cure-all without evidence. You may not think that's a big deal, but the minute you try to focus on one solution, you tend to overlook other options. That's particularly important considering that current trials have had mixed results (sure, it has great efficiency, when you remove patients who died from the study after the fact). The other problem that develops is that now you've increased the demand for a drug that is used for other, proven usage which means that people who are dependent on it, i.e. have lupus, are now facing shortages.
> 
> As for wearing masks, I've already said it was a cultural thing, and how many people were actually laughing that others were wearing masks? If there was any laughing about masks, it was more about the improvised ones coming from China with people using oranges or bras.


I don't think they were focused only on that, also the data was promising. 
Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial
Twenty cases were treated in this study and showed a significant reduction of the viral carriage at D6-post inclusion compared to controls, and much lower average carrying duration than reported of untreated patients in the literature. Azithromycin added to hydroxychloroquine was significantly more efficient for virus elimination.


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> I don't think they were focused only on that, also the data was promising.
> Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial
> Twenty cases were treated in this study and showed a significant reduction of the viral carriage at D6-post inclusion compared to controls, and much lower average carrying duration than reported of untreated patients in the literature. Azithromycin added to hydroxychloroquine was significantly more efficient for virus elimination.


Did you actually read and understand it? Did you notice the part where they decided to ignore the fact that for 6 of the people who were treated, they didn't do a follow-up, including 1 that died? Basically 26 people were treated and they decided to remove 6 from the study after the fact. There's a reason why most people with scientific background saw this as a flawed study, particularly the small sample size.

Here's another study where they evaluated 358 US veterans with either HC, HC+Azithromycin, and control. The control group had the lowest death rate. There is a lot to be studied and someone shouldn't be going around promoting the treatment on the basis of one questionable study.


----------



## MrMatt

bgc_fan said:


> Did you actually read and understand it? Did you notice the part where they decided to ignore the fact that for 6 of the people who were treated, they didn't do a follow-up, including 1 that died? Basically 26 people were treated and they decided to remove 6 from the study after the fact. There's a reason why most people with scientific background saw this as a flawed study, particularly the small sample size.
> 
> Here's another study where they evaluated 358 US veterans with either HC, HC+Azithromycin, and control. The control group had the lowest death rate. There is a lot to be studied and someone shouldn't be going around promoting the treatment on the basis of one questionable study.


I read the study, it's preliminary and flawed. 

However the key finding, which other informal studies also echo, is that it reduced viral load.
My point is that there was a published study that suggested this is an area of interest.


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> I read the study, it's preliminary and flawed.
> 
> However the key finding, which other informal studies also echo, is that it reduced viral load.
> My point is that there was a published study that suggested this is an area of interest.


Of course it is an area of interest. The point is that Trump should not be on the record saying, "Take it, what do you have to lose?" when you still have to conduct more rigorous trials. Instead, what happened was that people started a run on HC and decreased the supply for those who really needed it.


----------



## Longtimeago

MrMatt said:


> Yes it's inappropriate, but that's still not the same as physically touching young children.


LOL, can't resist a comment on this one. So what you are saying MrMatt is that it is the 'degree' of inappropriate that should be considered when voting for someone. Is that right?

To me that's in line with being 'a bit pregnant'. If someone is inappropriate in ANY way, I will not be voting for them ever. If you give me two inappropriate candidates to choose from I will not chose either of them. 

What has it come to when someone can get elected because they are 'less inappropriate' than someone else.


----------



## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> LOL, can't resist a comment on this one. So what you are saying MrMatt is that it is the 'degree' of inappropriate that should be considered when voting for someone. Is that right?
> 
> To me that's in line with being 'a bit pregnant'. If someone is inappropriate in ANY way, I will not be voting for them ever. If you give me two inappropriate candidates to choose from I will not chose either of them.
> 
> What has it come to when someone can get elected because they are 'less inappropriate' than someone else.


Well, if any inappropriate behaviour disqualifies you, Truduea is definately out. He's assaulted and groped women. I guess most Canadians disagree with you.


But yes, when you only have 2 choices, you choose the least awful one.
If you were American, would you vote Biden, Trump or abstain?
I'd determine who offers the better hope for the future, and vote for them.

Trump is bad, but a known quantity. Biden is incompetent, it will really matter who the running mate is.


----------



## Money172375

MrMatt said:


> Well, if any inappropriate behaviour disqualifies you, Truduea is definately out. He's assaulted and groped women. I guess most Canadians disagree with you.
> 
> 
> But yes, when you only have 2 choices, you choose the least awful one.
> If you were American, would you vote Biden, Trump or abstain?
> I'd determine who offers the better hope for the future, and vote for them.
> 
> Trump is bad, but a known quantity. Biden is incompetent, it will really matter who the running mate is.


running mates are almost always chosen to balance the ticket or attract battle ground states. Elections since 2000 have all been focused on electoral math. I’d go with Biden......Trump is a disgrace...at least Biden will listen to advisors.


----------



## Eder

I'm for Biden as well...just think of the memes his presidency can generate.


----------



## MrMatt

Eder said:


> I'm for Biden as well...just think of the memes his presidency can generate.


But think about all the comedians who are going to have to start writing their own jokes. For the last 4 years they got off easy, they could just quote the president.


----------



## Prairie Guy

MrMatt said:


> But think about all the comedians who are going to have to start writing their own jokes. For the last 4 years they got off easy, they could just quote the president.


And for 8 years before Trump they wouldn't dare joke about Obama. He was untouchable. They don't really quote Trump either, they take something he says out of context and make up the rest.

What are they going to do about Biden? He's a Democrat and therefore "protected". The brave ones will probably ignore his groping, rape accusations, rapidly declining mental health, and the Chinese business interests.


----------



## MrMatt

Prairie Guy said:


> And for 8 years before Trump they wouldn't dare joke about Obama. He was untouchable. They don't really quote Trump either, they take something he says out of context and make up the rest.
> 
> What are they going to do about Biden? He's a Democrat and therefore "protected". The brave ones will probably ignore his groping, rape accusations, rapidly declining mental health, and the Chinese business interests.


What about the Ukranian corruption issue?

Objectively I don't see how Biden is actually better than Trump.
Several of the other candidates were actually decent.


----------



## Prairie Guy

MrMatt said:


> What about the Ukranian corruption issue?
> 
> Objectively I don't see how Biden is actually better than Trump.
> Several of the other candidates were actually decent.


Maybe they'd make a couple soft Ukrainian jokes. I did read that Hunter is still being paid by a Chinese company.

There were plenty better candidates than Biden, and some of them could even carry on an intelligent conversation. I thought Tulsi Gabbard had a shot after she destroyed Kamala Harris. But they wanted Biden over all the others even though his mental decline has been obvious for months. 

Biden is so far gone now that trotting him out for 30 second teleprompter spots where it's obvious he has no idea where he is or what's going on is bordering on elder abuse. Their only chance is to replace him. Of course the people won't get to decide just like last time when they ran Bernie out of town so Hillary could have a shot. The Democrats are so crooked that they even fix their own leadership races.


----------



## Money172375

It’s sad, but the most capable people of running for office (anywhere) want no part of it. Political parties Are more divisive than ever...when in reality, we probably agree on 85% of issues.


----------



## MrMatt

Money172375 said:


> It’s sad, but the most capable people of running for office (anywhere) want no part of it. Political parties Are more divisive than ever...when in reality, we probably agree on 85% of issues.


I used to think this. But I'm not so sure.
Most politicians I meet seem to want to help people.

Unfortunately they want to help people so bad, they don't seem to care how bad they're hurting people .


----------



## Eder

If Tulsi was the candidate even I would watch the debates(with the sound turned off of course)


----------



## sags

Speaker Nancy Pelosi says the President's recent musing on injecting disinfectant to cure coronavirus is medically called 'embalming'.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> And for 8 years before Trump they wouldn't dare joke about Obama. He was untouchable. They don't really quote Trump either, they take something he says out of context and make up the rest.
> 
> What are they going to do about Biden? He's a Democrat and therefore "protected". The brave ones will probably ignore his groping, rape accusations, rapidly declining mental health, and the Chinese business interests.


The persecution complex is strong with this one.


----------



## andrewf

There have been plenty of jokes made about Biden's creepy behaviour (sniffing hair, groping shoulders, kissing back of the head, etc.). Also lots of jokes about his incoherence. Maybe you haven't noticed because Trump gets lambasted for the same character flaws (creepy comments, like how he said he would want to date his daughter or general incoherence like his 'joke' about injecting disinfectant).


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> his 'joke' about injecting disinfectant).





sags said:


> Speaker Nancy Pelosi says the President's recent musing on injecting disinfectant to cure coronavirus is medically called 'embalming'.


A joke or a medical breakthrough?


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> A joke or a medical breakthrough?
> View attachment 20137


Trump said it was a joke. You callin' him a liar? lol

A company licensed a doo-dad that they designed? Stop the presses! Does it work better than healing crystals? Who cares! It's not like we should wait for properly controlled studies to demonstrate the effectiveness and safety of it. We should immediately enthuse about it instead on national TV. Your doodad is also not an injection of disinfectant. It is a UV light emitter that is proposed to be stuck in a patient's lungs. You know that the surface area of lungs is about that of a tennis court. I don't see how this could be effective. It may kill virus particles, but it could also at the same time have zero effect on the symptoms of the infection. Intubation is no joke, either.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> I don't see how this could be effective


Thanks doctor.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Thanks doctor.


It's called skepticism. It's akin to taking a shower to remove HIV. There will be lots of coronavirus in tissues not in the lungs, so how can a UV light meaningfully treat/cure COVID19 in vivo? They can be effective for sterilizing fomites, but that is an entirely different problem.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> It's called skepticism. It's akin to taking a shower to remove HIV. There will be lots of coronavirus in tissues not in the lungs, so how can a UV light meaningfully treat/cure COVID19 in vivo? They can be effective for sterilizing fomites, but that is an entirely different problem.


If you can expose COVID19 to UV, that could kill it.
If you can do this safely, without too much damage to other cells, it might be a way to zap some of the virus.
If you can reduce the amount of the virus, maybe that can hold it off a bit longer.
Even if it's everywhere in your body, as long as we keep the lungs clear, you can breath, maybe you don't need a ventilator.

The easiest ways are, to put a probe in the lungs, or to apply to blood in dialysis. I know UV on blood and external wounds has been researched. I've posted links
It's also crazy, but what if we had fiber optic needles that could expose more?
Fiber optics are very fine, and accupuncture done properly doesn't seem to cause damage.
- it also has great marketting potential "subdermal illumination therapy", I'm surprised people aren't doing it already actually. Lasers and fiber optics, sounds cool to me!

We use radiation and chemotherapy on cancer, who's to say some of these more radical (risky, dangerous, harmful) procedures might help save lives?


----------



## Retired Peasant

Prairie Guy said:


> A joke or a medical breakthrough?


I never trust a company that can't spell.


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> If you can expose COVID19 to UV, that could kill it.
> If you can do this safely, without too much damage to other cells, it might be a way to zap some of the virus.
> If you can reduce the amount of the virus, maybe that can hold it off a bit longer.
> Even if it's everywhere in your body, as long as we keep the lungs clear, you can breath, maybe you don't need a ventilator.
> 
> The easiest ways are, to put a probe in the lungs, or to apply to blood in dialysis. I know UV on blood and external wounds has been researched. I've posted links
> It's also crazy, but what if we had fiber optic needles that could expose more?
> Fiber optics are very fine, and accupuncture done properly doesn't seem to cause damage.
> - it also has great marketting potential "subdermal illumination therapy", I'm surprised people aren't doing it already actually. Lasers and fiber optics, sounds cool to me!
> 
> We use radiation and chemotherapy on cancer, who's to say some of these more radical (risky, dangerous, harmful) procedures might help save lives?


We use radiation and chemotherapy on cancer because cancerous cells are more vulnerable to these poisons/damage that the rest of the organism. Not something to be done lightly. Viruses are a different thing altogether. They hijack cells to reproduce. To kill the virus you need to kill the cells it has hijacked. That is what the immune system does. And the immune system can actually reach all your tissues, unlike a UV light inserted (briefly, I imagine) into the lungs.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Retired Peasant said:


> I never trust a company that can't spell.


I guess any excuse will do for some.

If they find a cure or successful vaccination and Trump announces it everyone who hates him has to decide to go with the cure and prove him right or risk dying.


----------



## andrewf

Trump blabbing about it on TV in no way grants him any credit for treatments other people are working on. The reason why people are annoyed with him is it seems he is focused on long-shot miracle cures instead of actually doing to the hard work of managing the pandemic.


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> If you can expose COVID19 to UV, that could kill it.
> If you can do this safely, without too much damage to other cells, it might be a way to zap some of the virus.
> If you can reduce the amount of the virus, maybe that can hold it off a bit longer.
> Even if it's everywhere in your body, as long as we keep the lungs clear, you can breath, maybe you don't need a ventilator.
> 
> The easiest ways are, to put a probe in the lungs, or to apply to blood in dialysis. I know UV on blood and external wounds has been researched. I've posted links
> It's also crazy, but what if we had fiber optic needles that could expose more?
> Fiber optics are very fine, and accupuncture done properly doesn't seem to cause damage.
> - it also has great marketting potential "subdermal illumination therapy", I'm surprised people aren't doing it already actually. Lasers and fiber optics, sounds cool to me!
> 
> We use radiation and chemotherapy on cancer, who's to say some of these more radical (risky, dangerous, harmful) procedures might help save lives?


So, a few things. UV light is not a generic term. There are 3 distinct wavelengths of interest, UVA, UVB, and UVC, in increasing power. When you talk about sterilizing quickly with UV light, it's UVC. The small problem is that while it will kill bacteria and virus, it is carcinogenic and damage mammalian tissue. Even prolonged exposure to UVA and UVB is dangerous, why do you think we wear sunscreen? That company who you're advertising is only trialing UVA and the results are invitro only. There's a huge jump towards invivo application.

So yeah, skepticism is required for all these "miracle" treatmens.


----------



## MrMatt

bgc_fan said:


> So, a few things. UV light is not a generic term. There are 3 distinct wavelengths of interest, UVA, UVB, and UVC, in increasing power. When you talk about sterilizing quickly with UV light, it's UVC. The small problem is that while it will kill bacteria and virus, it is carcinogenic and damage mammalian tissue. Even prolonged exposure to UVA and UVB is dangerous, why do you think we wear sunscreen? That company who you're advertising is only trialing UVA and the results are invitro only. There's a huge jump towards invivo application.
> 
> So yeah, skepticism is required for all these "miracle" treatments.


UV is a generic term covering light with wavelengths between 10 to 400nm. The wavelength isn't the "power", it's just how we classify light.

I'm not advertising any company. I'm pointing out that UV has been used on human blood, and on human flesh for disinfectant purposes.

There is a whole lot I'm not saying, like how safe it is, how appropriate etc. I'm just pointing out that this technique has actually been used as a treatment.

Yes we should be skeptical of all these treatments, and vaccines. I'm very skeptical.
There is a big difference between saying "similar technology has been used in the past", and "I think we should do this"


----------



## dotnet_nerd

MrMatt said:


> ...The wavelength isn't the "power", it's just how we classify light.


Yes it is. The wavelength precisely defines the power. It's called the "Photoelectric Effect" for which Einstein won a Nobel prize (not for Relativity as commonly assumed).

Einstein and Max Planck showed how higher frequency photons are more energetic than lower frequency ones. 
UV and X-ray is what is called "ionizing radiation", basically meaning each photon is energetic enough to ionize atoms they collide with, which is why they cause so much damage, like cancer.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Trump blabbing about it on TV in no way grants him any credit for treatments other people are working on. The reason why people are annoyed with him is it seems he is focused on long-shot miracle cures instead of actually doing to the hard work of managing the pandemic.


He mentioned it once or twice then moved on...that's hardly focused. On the other hand, the media ran with it for weeks and so have you.

Now if we make up a timeline of what Trump did and what Trudeau did, Trudeau would be found sorely lacking, and often negligent.


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> UV is a generic term covering light with wavelengths between 10 to 400nm. The wavelength isn't the "power", it's just how we classify light.
> 
> I'm not advertising any company. I'm pointing out that UV has been used on human blood, and on human flesh for disinfectant purposes.
> 
> There is a whole lot I'm not saying, like how safe it is, how appropriate etc. I'm just pointing out that this technique has actually been used as a treatment.
> 
> Yes we should be skeptical of all these treatments, and vaccines. I'm very skeptical.
> There is a big difference between saying "similar technology has been used in the past", and "I think we should do this"


You need to do some reading. Here's a quick equation for you. 
Energy = c*h/wavelength; c is the speed of light, and h is Planck's constant. 
Notice that Energy is inversely proportional to wavelength? The shorter the wavelength, the more energy. And light is in the electromagnetic spectrum. Honestly, this is basic high school stuff.

And let's be clear, UV light might be used for treatment of some skin conditions, but not for disinfection. And again, there is a reason why these blood treatments you are referring to were last studied in the 1940s and only used in Russia.


----------



## MrMatt

bgc_fan said:


> You need to do some reading. Here's a quick equation for you.
> Energy = c*h/wavelength; c is the speed of light, and h is Planck's constant.
> Notice that Energy is inversely proportional to wavelength? The shorter the wavelength, the more energy. And light is in the electromagnetic spectrum. Honestly, this is basic high school stuff.
> 
> And let's be clear, UV light might be used for treatment of some skin conditions, but not for disinfection. And again, there is a reason why these blood treatments you are referring to were last studied in the 1940s and only used in Russia.


You're technically correct, but that's not how people typically refer to light sources.
But if you apply 1W of 10nm, or 1W of 400nm light, it's the same energy.

I've posted the link to more recent studies in this thread. Your claim that it hasn't been studied for 70 is not true.

Just because a technology is old, doesn't mean it's bad.


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> You're technically correct, but that's not how people typically refer to light sources.
> But if you apply 1W of 10nm, or 1W of 400nm light, it's the same energy.
> 
> I've posted the link to more recent studies in this thread. Your claim that it hasn't been studied for 70 is not true.
> 
> Just because a technology is old, doesn't mean it's bad.


Not quite. Watt is a unit of power, not energy, so when you talk about 1W of 10nm, you're talking about a significantly less exposure time than 1W of 400nm.



MrMatt said:


> Secondly, it SHOULD be investigated, particularly UV.
> Ultraviolet Radiation in Wound Care: Sterilization and Stimulation
> Ultraviolet Irradiation of Blood: “The Cure That Time Forgot”?


So... do you actually read what you reference? These are literature reviews. They aren't clinical studies. The UV irradiation of blood is particularly dated seeing as most of the referenced papers are over 20 years old and are primarily talking about antibiotic resistant bacteria. Nothing about the actual procedure and its effectiveness. And by the way, it was geared towards bacteria which is significantly different than a virus.


----------



## dotnet_nerd

MrMatt said:


> But if you apply 1W of 10nm, or 1W of 400nm light, it's the same energy.


The total energy doesn't matter. What matters is the energy of the individual photons.

Here's a simple analogy. I pound on a glass window for a week Bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam. Just hard enough to rattle but not smash it. Nothing happens to the window, it stays intact.
Now, I take a BB gun and shoot one single high-energy particle (a BB) - the windows shatters.

Even though my fist delivered far more energy than the BB


----------



## MrMatt

dotnet_nerd said:


> The total energy doesn't matter. What matters is the energy of the individual photons.
> 
> Here's a simple analogy. I pound on a glass window for a week Bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam. Just hard enough to rattle but not smash it. Nothing happens to the window, it stays intact.
> Now, I take a BB gun and shoot one single high-energy particle (a BB) - the windows shatters.
> 
> Even though my fist delivered far more energy than the BB


But you take a nerf dart (with more total energy) and it bounces harmlessly off.

Different types of radiation have different impacts. Single factor analysis is not appropriate.
I do believe a single 10nm photon would cause less damage than 1e9 photons at 400nm, despite the "higher energy per photon" of the short wave light.

But look at radiation treatment for cancer, as they tune and target it, they're doing less harm to the patient.
I actually think that's a good comparison.
1. We have a diesease that is resistant to treatment.
2. We found apply certain types of radiation, in certain dosages, may harm the diesease more than the host patient.

That IS true for for some cancers, and may be true for COVID19. Which again, was my whole point, it's not completely crazy, and it could be something worth looking into.


----------



## Money172375

dotnet_nerd said:


> Yes it is. The wavelength precisely defines the power. It's called the "Photoelectric Effect" for which Einstein won a Nobel prize (not for Relativity as commonly assumed).
> 
> Einstein and Max Planck showed how higher frequency photons are more energetic than lower frequency ones.
> UV and X-ray is what is called "ionizing radiation", basically meaning each photon is energetic enough to ionize atoms they collide with, which is why they cause so much damage, like cancer.


don’t you mean “Noble” prize. Haha









Trump calls for journalists who covered the Russia investigation to return their 'Noble Prizes' in Twitter rant before deleting it


President Donald Trump misspelled Nobel, but the Nobel Prize is not awarded for journalism. He could have been thinking of the Pulitzer Prize.




www.businessinsider.com





my kid‘s principal sends out a daily update via email. At least twice a week, there’s a retraction or correction of some sort. I shake my head.

How POTUS can do the same thing is inexcusable.....there are certain standards we should all have for what is one of the most influential positions in the world. Can’t he pay somehow to tweet for him?


----------



## MrMatt

Money172375 said:


> don’t you mean “Noble” prize. Haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump calls for journalists who covered the Russia investigation to return their 'Noble Prizes' in Twitter rant before deleting it
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump misspelled Nobel, but the Nobel Prize is not awarded for journalism. He could have been thinking of the Pulitzer Prize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my kid‘s principal sends out a daily update via email. At least twice a week, there’s a retraction or correction of some sort. I shake my head.
> 
> How POTUS can do the same thing is inexcusable.....there are certain standards we should all have for what is one of the most influential positions in the world. Can’t he pay somehow to tweet for him?


Politics is a popularity contest. It is only tangentially related to competence in the skills of running the office.
I mean we HOPE someone who understands and can relate to people is going to make good decisions on our behalf.

That's why the institutions, not the person, is the important part.


----------



## sags

What Mencken (1880-1956) did write, in the Sept. 19, 1926 edition of the Chicago Daily Tribune, was: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”


----------



## Prairie Guy

Money172375 said:


> don’t you mean “Noble” prize. Haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump calls for journalists who covered the Russia investigation to return their 'Noble Prizes' in Twitter rant before deleting it
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump misspelled Nobel, but the Nobel Prize is not awarded for journalism. He could have been thinking of the Pulitzer Prize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.businessinsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my kid‘s principal sends out a daily update via email. At least twice a week, there’s a retraction or correction of some sort. I shake my head.
> 
> How POTUS can do the same thing is inexcusable.....there are certain standards we should all have for what is one of the most influential positions in the world. Can’t he pay somehow to tweet for him?


It's interesting what people consider important.

Trump misspells a word and it's a tragedy...but a "journalist" can win a Pulitzer for a story that proved to be fake and no one cares. In fact, most people knew the story was fake when it was written but the people who award the prize gave it anyway.

To me, a dishonest or incompetent media is far more dangerous than a misspelled word. But, my entire daily life isn't spent looking for a tiny little mistake by Trump so I can scream it to everyone. And, if my kid's principal spent their day sending updates about Trump spelling errors I'd pull them out of school as it's clear that their priorities are out of whack.


----------



## Money172375

Prairie Guy said:


> It's interesting what people consider important.
> 
> Trump misspells a word and it's a tragedy...but a "journalist" can win a Pulitzer for a story that proved to be fake and no one cares. In fact, most people knew the story was fake when it was written but the people who award the prize gave it anyway.
> 
> To me, a dishonest or incompetent media is far more dangerous than a misspelled word. But, my entire daily life isn't spent looking for a tiny little mistake by Trump so I can scream it to everyone. And, if my kid's principal spent their day sending updates about Trump spelling errors I'd pull them out of school as it's clear that their priorities are out of whack.


just to be clear, the principal isn’t sending updates about Trump. He’s sending school related updates with numerous updates and corrections.

I’m not in the camp that says Trump‘s misspelling is a tragedy........but the frequency of it and the general demeanour would be a huge hindrance to most people getting a job these days. Like it or not, the presidency both reflects _and _influences a nation’s culture. Many will look to his spelling and demeanour and figure “well, if the president can do it, so can I”.

I just wish for a slightly higher standard. Personally a fan of both Reagan and Obama, so it’s not party affiliation.


----------



## Longtimeago

Now Trumpet has said he takes 'no responsibility' for anything people are now doing with disinfectant. 

Try and follow me here.

1. Trump says and yes, I'm parsing his words, 'disinfectant kills the virus. Maybe if we take disinfectant internally somehow it would work.'
2. People start doing just that. 
3. Trump takes 'no responsibility'.

How do you not take responsibility for something you caused to happen?

Come on people, even for a Trump lover, there has to be a limit for how much stupidity you can accept from someone who is the President of a country and who HAS responsibility for what he says to the people. That responsibility is PART of his job description for heaven's sake.


----------



## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> Now Trumpet has said he takes 'no responsibility' for anything people are now doing with disinfectant.
> 
> Try and follow me here.
> 
> 1. Trump says and yes, I'm parsing his words, 'disinfectant kills the virus. Maybe if we take disinfectant internally somehow it would work.'
> 2. People start doing just that.
> 3. Trump takes 'no responsibility'.
> 
> How do you not take responsibility for something you caused to happen?
> 
> Come on people, even for a Trump lover, there has to be a limit for how much stupidity you can accept from someone who is the President of a country and who HAS responsibility for what he says to the people. That responsibility is PART of his job description for heaven's sake.


"Maybe there is a disinfectant that works" is a LONG way from "drink bleach"


----------



## Beaver101

Longtimeago said:


> ... That responsibility is PART of his job description for heaven's sake.


 ... yep as CEO/POTUS in his own reality show in MAGA.  ...oops here come the twits "FAKE NEWS!!!!"


----------



## Longtimeago

MrMatt said:


> "Maybe there is a disinfectant that works" is a LONG way from "drink bleach"


Like if you were to say to your low IQ and highly suggestible fellow worker, 'maybe you should shoot the boss' is a long way from 'shoot the boss'. Is that what you mean MrMatt?

Then when he shoots the boss, you get to say, 'I take no responsibility for that happening.'

Come on MrMatt, you're smarter than to believe that kind of disingenuous false logic. Trump made a stupid statement, some people will believe anything and act on that belief. A president of a country is responsible for everything he says to the public and the outcome it results in.

IF Trump were a MAN, he would own up and say, 'I made a stupid comment without thinking about what came out of my mouth. I apologize.'

Instead, he says first it was not meant as a real comment when it obviously was and then he says he accepts no responsibility for any outcome his comment might result in. That's not a MAN MrMatt.


----------



## bgc_fan

MrMatt said:


> "Maybe there is a disinfectant that works" is a LONG way from "drink bleach"


You do realize that even before Trump said that, there were already Youtube videos and websites that promoted drinking bleach for COVID 19? The problem with Trump saying what he said, is that he pretty much legitimized all those quack theories about drinking bleach. Hence the increase of poison control calls.


----------



## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> Like if you were to say to your low IQ and highly suggestible fellow worker, 'maybe you should shoot the boss' is a long way from 'shoot the boss'. Is that what you mean MrMatt?
> 
> Then when he shoots the boss, you get to say, 'I take no responsibility for that happening.'
> 
> Come on MrMatt, you're smarter than to believe that kind of disingenuous false logic. Trump made a stupid statement, some people will believe anything and act on that belief. A president of a country is responsible for everything he says to the public and the outcome it results in.
> 
> IF Trump were a MAN, he would own up and say, 'I made a stupid comment without thinking about what came out of my mouth. I apologize.'
> 
> Instead, he says first it was not meant as a real comment when it obviously was and then he says he accepts no responsibility for any outcome his comment might result in. That's not a MAN MrMatt.


False analogy.
It's more like saying Fentanyl is great when properly administered by a doctor, then the coworker going out and ODing on rat poison.


----------



## sags

LTA.......Trump is so stupid that he doesn't know he is stupid. I think the medical term is "grandiose stupiditis".

Seriously, can people think of one corporation that Trump would even be suitable as a lfoor manager.........let alone the CEO.

In the 1930's, Conservative H.L.Menchken wrote, apparently with great insight into a future Donald Trump Presidency.......

_Mencken could be creatively harsh, on candidates and voters. He thought that candidates of “vigorous mind and stout convictions” were “gradually shouldered out of public life”, leaving the field to “intellectual jellyfish and inner tubes”, so that “*on some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron”. *_


----------



## Prairie Guy

The real idiots are those who continue to believe the media when they lie or take things out of context. I've never seen so many people so willing to believe every single thing they're told when the track record of accuracy is close to 0%.

After 3 full years you would think that some of them might have enough smarts to figure out that they're being played as fools...but you'd be wrong. The same idiots keep falling for it. Every. Single. Time.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

The problem is, some people are incapable of rational thought when it comes to Trump. I listened to his remarks. I heard him rambling on... if I can paraphrase, it went something like this ' we need to look at all possibilities - we know ultraviolet light will kill germs - so will sunlight - maybe there is some way to use that to kill corona virus in the body - there are disinfectants that will kill the virus in one minute - maybe there is some kind of disinfectant that could be used - we need to get scientists and doctors looking into these things'. I know that is not the exact words but I think that is what he was driving at. It makes more sense than 'go out and drink bleach' which I know he never said.


----------



## sags

The words Trump and rational thought shouldn't be in the same sentence together.


----------



## bgc_fan

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The problem is, some people are incapable of rational thought when it comes to Trump. I listened to his remarks. I heard him rambling on... if I can paraphrase, it went something like this ' we need to look at all possibilities - we know ultraviolet light will kill germs - so will sunlight - maybe there is some way to use that to kill corona virus in the body - there are disinfectants that will kill the virus in one minute - maybe there is some kind of disinfectant that could be used - we need to get scientists and doctors looking into these things'. I know that is not the exact words but I think that is what he was driving at. It makes more sense than 'go out and drink bleach' which I know he never said.


I see you decide to omit the "inject" and "shine UV or really powerful light into the body". That kind of puts a huge spin on things. I guess supporters only hear what they want to hear.

Here's the exact transcript:

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. *So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body,* which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.
THE PRESIDENT: Right. *And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning*. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.


----------



## andrewf

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The problem is, some people are incapable of rational thought when it comes to Trump. I listened to his remarks. I heard him rambling on... if I can paraphrase, it went something like this ' we need to look at all possibilities - we know ultraviolet light will kill germs - so will sunlight - maybe there is some way to use that to kill corona virus in the body - there are disinfectants that will kill the virus in one minute - maybe there is some kind of disinfectant that could be used - we need to get scientists and doctors looking into these things'. I know that is not the exact words but I think that is what he was driving at. It makes more sense than 'go out and drink bleach' which I know he never said.


Perhaps, just perhaps, the problem is that supporters hear what they wish Trump thought/said, and not what he actually said. He says patently dumb stuff all the time. Often incoherent rambling. You may get the gist of what he's saying, and maybe correct it to something a bit more logical. But that is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> The real idiots are those who continue to believe the media when they lie or take things out of context. I've never seen so many people so willing to believe every single thing they're told when the track record of accuracy is close to 0%.
> 
> After 3 full years you would think that some of them might have enough smarts to figure out that they're being played as fools...but you'd be wrong. The same idiots keep falling for it. Every. Single. Time.


Even when you put in abundant context what he says often doesn't make sense or is absurd. We posted the full transcript here. You can listen to his remarks unfiltered. The media lens is irrelevant.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Even when you put in abundant context what he says often doesn't make sense or is absurd. We posted the full transcript here. You can listen to his remarks unfiltered. The media lens is irrelevant.


I read the transcript and not once was I tempted to drink bleach or disinfectant or even thought that was suggested based on what Trump said. Had I just read a media headline I might have thought differently....and that was my point all along. Some of you read the media lie and believe it every time.

Trump is not at fault...the media is at fault.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

It all depends on your vision of government. Some people want good government even if the people involved are not perfect, others see government as a racket purely for their own power and enrichment.

If you want good government, and someone less than perfect gets into office, the logical thing to do would be to try and help him do his best and avoid the really bad mistakes. But if you regard government as a racket then the thing to do, if the other party gets elected, is to slam them over the head every 2 minutes and do everything you can to gum things up.

The best analogy I heard, is that the Democrats are like a bunch of passengers on an airplane who hate the pilot because they wanted a different pilot, and are trying to crash the plane to make him look bad.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> I read the transcript and not once was I tempted to drink bleach or disinfectant or even thought that was suggested based on what Trump said. Had I just read a media headline I might have thought differently....and that was my point all along. Some of you read the media lie and believe it every time.
> 
> Trump is not at fault...the media is at fault.


Whether you were tempted is irrelevant. Trump said something stupid & irresponsible. He talked about injecting disinfectant. Trump has a duty to be careful with what he says, as people are listening. He's not just another celebrity musing about the subject. And you have to honest with yourself: if Trudeau had uttered those words, you would not only be lambasting him about it, you would be questioning whether he is losing his mind.


----------



## andrewf

Rusty O'Toole said:


> It all depends on your vision of government. Some people want good government even if the people involved are not perfect, others see government as a racket purely for their own power and enrichment.
> 
> If you want good government, and someone less than perfect gets into office, the logical thing to do would be to try and help him do his best and avoid the really bad mistakes. But if you regard government as a racket then the thing to do, if the other party gets elected, is to slam them over the head every 2 minutes and do everything you can to gum things up.
> 
> The best analogy I heard, is that the Democrats are like a bunch of passengers on an airplane who hate the pilot because they wanted a different pilot, and are trying to crash the plane to make him look bad.


You were around for Mitch McConnell's antics while Obama was president, right? You seriously trying to paint the Democrats as villains and the GOP as angels? McConnell didn't even try to hide the fact that he saw his job as preventing Obama from doing anything. Including dereliction of the Senate's duty to confirm appointments. The Democrats are only aspiring to the level of obstruction of the GOP--they still fall short.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Trump said something stupid & irresponsible. He talked about injecting disinfectant. Trump has a duty to be careful with what he says, as people are listening.


No, YOU perceived that he said something irresponsible, or you listened to the media and trusted them to be accurate. That's your problem to deal with. Either work on your comprehension skills and/or stop trusting the media to be accurate and honest.


----------



## andrewf

So, don't listen to what Trump says? Or do? I am confused. Can you translate what he said into something coherent? He talked about investigating UV/"powerful lights" being used in the body (probably useless but whatever) and his words, injection of disinfectant. How else could one interpret it? You are the one who is twisting what he said into what you wished he had said.


----------



## MrMatt

andrewf said:


> So, don't listen to what Trump says? Or do? I am confused. Can you translate what he said into something coherent? He talked about investigating UV/"powerful lights" being used in the body (probably useless but whatever) and his words, injection of disinfectant. How else could one interpret it? You are the one who is twisting what he said into what you wished he had said.


Exactly as he said it. He never said drink bleach or Lysol etc.
He just said they should look into this stuff. They should look into it, just to communicate that it's a very bad idea.


----------



## Longtimeago

MrMatt said:


> Exactly as he said it. He never said drink bleach or Lysol etc.
> He just said they should look into this stuff. They should look into it, just to communicate that it's a very bad idea.


Umm, are you saying that medical professionals should actually 'look into' injecting disinfectant in order to ascertain that it is a very bad idea? Maybe I'm reading your message incorrectly but that is what I think you are saying.

They don't need to 'look into it' to know that it is a very bad idea. If Trump thinks they do need to look into it to determine that, it just points out Trump's lack of general knowledge yet again. I would expect the average 12 year old to know that injecting disinfectant is a very bad idea.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

According to the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons Hydroxycloroquine has a 90% success rate in helping coronavirus patients especially when used with zinc and azithromycin. In other words Trump was right, but his enemies would rather see thousands get sick and die than admit it.

'
In a letter to Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) presents a frequently updated table of studies that report results of treating COVID-19 with the anti-malaria drugs chloroquine (CQ) and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ, Plaquenil®).

To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.

The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS. HCQ is often very helpful in treating autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

Additional benefits shown in some studies, AAPS states, is to decrease the number of days when a patient is contagious, reduce the need for ventilators, and shorten the time to clinical recovery.'

Full story here Hydroxychloroquine Has about 90 Percent Chance of Helping COVID-19 Patients - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons


----------



## MrMatt

Longtimeago said:


> Umm, are you saying that medical professionals should actually 'look into' injecting disinfectant in order to ascertain that it is a very bad idea? Maybe I'm reading your message incorrectly but that is what I think you are saying.
> 
> They don't need to 'look into it' to know that it is a very bad idea. If Trump thinks they do need to look into it to determine that, it just points out Trump's lack of general knowledge yet again. I would expect the average 12 year old to know that injecting disinfectant is a very bad idea.


Actually they do need to look into it.
We know alcohol based mouthwash is very effective at reducing some infections.

I see cancer treatments, particularly the early attempts as an appropriate analogy.\
You have a disease that will very soon kill you.
We're going to dose you with devastating near lethal doses of various chemical cocktails and radiation, in the hope that it kills the disease, but doesn't completely kill you. Pretend you don't know that radiation can be used to effectively treat cancer, could you imagine approving such a test? I can't imagine what it would take to convince me. I think we're in a similar place with new COVID19 treatments.

When you get to the stage of needing a ventialtor, at which point your odds of death are 4:1, for DEATH, yeah, they should try whatever ideas they think might possibly work. They might be bad on a healthy person, but maybe something will work.

I think this type of stuff is, in general, a bad idea (Alcohol inhalation - Wikipedia)


----------



## andrewf

MrMatt said:


> Exactly as he said it. He never said drink bleach or Lysol etc.
> He just said they should look into this stuff. They should look into it, just to communicate that it's a very bad idea.


His advisor look deeply pained to listen to his stupidity. Could not even make eye contact. A real trooper. I admire the people who serve Trump with expertise and professionalism despite his penchant to fire them capriciously for not being sufficiently obsequious. How many times has Trump hinted he would fire Fauci? How many times has Fauci had to lick the boot to continue to be able to serve the American people?


----------



## andrewf

Rusty O'Toole said:


> According to the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons Hydroxycloroquine has a 90% success rate in helping coronavirus patients especially when used with zinc and azithromycin. In other words Trump was right, but his enemies would rather see thousands get sick and die than admit it.
> 
> '
> In a letter to Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) presents a frequently updated table of studies that report results of treating COVID-19 with the anti-malaria drugs chloroquine (CQ) and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ, Plaquenil®).
> 
> To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.
> 
> The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS. HCQ is often very helpful in treating autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.
> 
> Additional benefits shown in some studies, AAPS states, is to decrease the number of days when a patient is contagious, reduce the need for ventilators, and shorten the time to clinical recovery.'
> 
> Full story here Hydroxychloroquine Has about 90 Percent Chance of Helping COVID-19 Patients - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons


Other studies have shown HCQ to lead to worse results than control. HCQ is no joke and has serious side effects, particularly for people already weakened by COVID19.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

HCQ has been in common use for over 50 years. Its effects, and side effects are well known.It may not be for everyone, that is why it needs to be prescribed by a doctor. But it could save thousands of lives.

If it were really that dangerous it would have been taken off the market long ago.


----------



## Mukhang pera

bgc_fan said:


> I see you decide to omit the "inject" and "shine UV or really powerful light into the body". That kind of puts a huge spin on things. I guess supporters only hear what they want to hear.
> 
> Here's the exact transcript:
> 
> THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. *So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body,* which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.
> ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.
> THE PRESIDENT: Right. *And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning*. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.


----------



## andrewf

Rusty O'Toole said:


> HCQ has been in common use for over 50 years. Its effects, and side effects are well known.It may not be for everyone, that is why it needs to be prescribed by a doctor. But it could save thousands of lives.
> 
> If it were really that dangerous it would have been taken off the market long ago.


Lot's of drugs are safe in some circumstances, and dangerous in others. HCQ has legitimate applications (where benefit : harm ratio makes sense), it does not automatically make it appropriate to use to treat COVID infection. That's why we do properly controlled clinical trials to understand the effectiveness and safety of a treatment, which no one opposes. As it turns out, it sounds like remdesivir has been shown to be effective. I haven't seen any conclusive finding for HCQ. A lot of anecdotes and poorly controlled trials.


----------



## Eder

Its the prophylactic effect that is golden...

_*A team of US doctors has claimed that hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malarial drug termed potential "game-changer" for COVID-19 by President Donald Trump, has improved the survival and recovery odds for about 90 per cent of patients infected with the virus.*_


*In a letter to Arizona Governor Doug Ducey, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) presented a frequently updated table of studies that report results of treating COVID-19 with the chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine drugs.


They presented data on 2,333 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine in China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the US.*


_*It shows 91.6 per cent of those who got the drug fared better after treatmen*_t.

Seems that its harder to get as its popular use is growing fast...wife can only fill a month at a time prescription now.


----------



## sags

So Donald Trump tweeted this oddity today.....

_And then came a Plague, a great and powerful Plague, and the World was never to be the same again ! But America rose from this death and destruction, always remembering its many lost souls, and the lost souls all over the World, and became greater than ever before !_

So like I posted before, Trump is getting all Biblical now and that isn't a particularly good thing.


----------



## bgc_fan

sags said:


> So Donald Trump tweeted this oddity today.....
> 
> _And then came a Plague, a great and powerful Plague, and the World was never to be the same again ! But America rose from this death and destruction, always remembering its many lost souls, and the lost souls all over the World, and became greater than ever before !_
> 
> So like I posted before, Trump is getting all Biblical now and that isn't a particularly good thing.


The funny part of the whole thing is that the fundamentalists support Trump because it signals the coming of end of days... which means that Trump is the antichrist. Could American Evangelicals Spot the Antichrist? Here Are the Biblical Predictions:


----------



## sags

Hmmm..........that is certainly some food for thought.


----------



## Eder

I'm thinking Trump wins after more women coming forward to diss Biden...this from a Dem nominee for lieutenant governor in Nevada. Creepy. How can he expect to win support when this crap is out there for the orange guy to make fun of.

_*As I was taking deep breaths and preparing myself to make my case to the crowd, I felt two hands on my shoulders. I froze. “Why is the vice-president of the United States touchIng me. I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual ****? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?” He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head. My brain couldn’t process what was happening. I was embarrassed. I was shocked. I was confused. There is a Spanish saying, “tragame tierra,” it means, “earth, swallow me whole.” I couldn’t move and I couldn’t say anything. I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me. My name was called and I was never happier to get on stage in front of an audience.

By Lucy Flores *_


----------



## Beaver101

^ Are you sure the Dump ain't doing that continuously? Boy must be hard to be a MAGA POSTUS now, having to answer to the press, particularly women (and those of colours). But then didn't he say "it wasn't worth his efforts" to have daily briefings with the press? Poor 2 year old Dump having to do such a hard hard job.

Trump Storms Out Of Coronavirus Briefing After Female Reporters Challenge Him


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Are you sure the Dump ain't doing that continuously? Boy must be hard to be a MAGA POSTUS now, having to answer to the press, particularly women (and those of colours). But then didn't he say "it wasn't worth his efforts" to have daily briefings with the press? Poor 2 year old Dump having to do such a hard hard job.
> 
> Trump Storms Out Of Coronavirus Briefing After Female Reporters Challenge Him


It has nothing to do with race or gender, but you know that. You're just trolling.

There is no reason for Trump to take questions from a dishonest and hostile media. Maybe he should be more like Trudeau and ban the media he doesn't like and then answer 3 softball questions a day from " government approved" media.

Imagine Trudeau facing a hostile media for an hour day after day, or even for one day.


----------



## Beaver101

Wow, the USA media was "hostile" to him ... baaawaaah ...


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> Wow, the USA media was "hostile" to him ... baaawaaah ...


As I said...imagine Trudeau not banning media he doesn't like and having to answer tough questions for an hour. Trump does so and holds his own. Trudeau can only answer a very few pre-approved questions from partisan media.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> It has nothing to do with race or gender, but you know that. You're just trolling.
> 
> There is no reason for Trump to take questions from a dishonest and hostile media. Maybe he should be more like Trudeau and ban the media he doesn't like and then answer 3 softball questions a day from " government approved" media.
> 
> Imagine Trudeau facing a hostile media for an hour day after day, or even for one day.


And let me guess, you never criticized Harper for keeping press in a small pen at events, and blacklisting ordinary Canadians from being in his presence if not determined to be sufficiently loyal to the party. Anything you would criticize Trudeau for doing you turned a blind eye to in Harper, and will do for whoever the next CPC PM is.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Which media did Harper ban? Please be specific. If you can prove that he banned accredited media I'll criticize him soundly.

If you can't or won't answer the question, maybe go back further to Mulroney. That'll show us!!


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Which media did Harper ban? Please be specific. If you can prove that he banned accredited media I'll criticize him soundly.
> 
> If you can't or won't answer the question, maybe go back further to Mulroney. That'll show us!!


I didn't claim he did. I said he kept them in pens at events. He also banned ordinary Canadians from his appearances (if not determined to be reliably CPC). Stop straw-manning.


----------



## Beaver101

Trump says virus chief's warning 'not acceptable' 

*



Coronavirus: Trump says Dr Fauci's warning 'not acceptable'

Click to expand...

*


> US President Donald Trump has said a sobering warning by his top infectious diseases expert about lifting pandemic restrictions too soon was unacceptable.
> 
> He accused Dr Anthony Fauci of wanting "to play all sides of the equation" in his testimony to lawmakers on Tuesday.
> 
> The president said he was especially dissatisfied with Dr Fauci's caution around reopening schools too quickly.
> Covid-19 has infected nearly 1.4 million people in the US and *killed 84,000*, while ravaging the economy.


... I wonder what would be an acceptable script for his doctor to say ... likely this: "Yeah, I agree with you Donnie. Open up everything, including the White House. And make sure to invite everyone who believes in MAGA over to celebrate the dead, with a free viewing of those buried in mass graves over at Hart Islands".


----------



## Beaver101

Reporters Grill Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany: If Barack Obama Left Medical Stockpile “Empty,” Why Didn’t Donald Trump Replenish It?



> ... McEnany, though, tried to turn the focus to the Trump administration’s efforts this year, which she said were “extraordinary.” She insisted that they “transitioned as quickly as possible and filled the empty cupboards left by President Obama.”
> 
> *The concerns over the administration’s preparedness took on new relevance this week after Rick Bright, a former official at the Department of Health and Human Services, testified before a congressional committee that his warnings in January and February of the need for ventilators, masks and other supplies went unheede*d.


 ... the TDS' Club (members of both sexes) are nothing but a gang (for a lack of a better word).


----------



## Beaver101

Pence's Former Doctor Calls Him Out For Not Wearing A Mask

https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/mike-pence


> *Dr. Jennifer Peña told MSNBC on Friday that "leadership has to come from the top, and we have to lead by example.”*
> 
> Mike Pence’s former personal physician has a special request for the vice president: Start wearing a mask in public.
> 
> Dr. Jennifer Peña served as Pence’s personal doctor during his first two years in office.
> 
> On Friday, Peña appeared on MSNBC and said the* vice president has a duty to set an example of proper pandemic behavior*. ...


 ... I don't think she's going to be successful since she's not his ma or grandma.


----------



## Eder

Most people in North America aren't wearing a mask anywhere. Many doctors recommend not wearing masks if it bothers a person causing them to constantly adjust it. 

Since Pence gets tested daily him not wearing a mask is nothing.
Unfortunately he does fit into demographics which attracts our derision no matter what the topic.


----------



## Eder

Well happy times from our leader!!


*✔* @JustinTrudeau



If you’re heading out for groceries this weekend, buy Canadian. Not only will it taste great, but it’ll help all those who are making sure there’s food in our stores and on our plates. And to them - our fishers, our farmers, and everyone else who’s involved - we say thank you.


Too bad
You raised the carbon tax on Canadian farmers by 50% last month.

Not on foreign food imports. Just on Canadian food.

And you just gave $50,000,000 to fast-track cheap foreign labourers to take Canadian farm jobs, ahead of unemployed Canadians.

Looking out for us!!


----------



## Spudd

What do you mean, "too bad"? You won't buy Canadian because he raised the carbon tax?


----------



## sags

Eder........put a "yes" on your income tax return where it asks if you will be claiming the climate change incentive (carbon tax refund).

My son had $0 income last year while on WSIB and he gets a tax refund of $224 solely from the carbon tax incentive, so it is an actual rebate.


----------



## Eder

Spudd said:


> What do you mean, "too bad"? You won't buy Canadian because he raised the carbon tax?



I guess I feel that what our leader says doesn't correspond to his actions. We should support our farmers to be competitive with the rest of the world yet he talks them up then saddles them with the carbon tax. 

Perhaps only I see the hypocrisy.


----------



## bgc_fan

How Trump sees himself:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1261747580666552320How others see Trump: People Are Photoshopping Trump As a Little Kid Just To Annoy Him


----------



## bgc_fan

Eder said:


> I guess I feel that what our leader says doesn't correspond to his actions. We should support our farmers to be competitive with the rest of the world yet he talks them up then saddles them with the carbon tax.
> 
> Perhaps only I see the hypocrisy.


Kind of like someone who questions other people's loyalty to Canada because they hold dual-citizenship? And when it was public that he has dual-citizenship says that he was in the process of renouncing it?

Yeah, that didn't happen: Scheer didn't follow through on renouncing U.S. citizenship


----------



## sags

LOL..............that website is hilarious.


----------



## Beaver101

^ And putting the Dump's head on President Whitmore's head is injustice even it's from a movie!


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ^ And putting the Dump's head on President Whitmore's head is injustice even it's from a movie!


Basically we have a TV president wishing he was a movie president. Makes sense. There's more money in movies than TV.


----------



## agent99

bgc_fan said:


> How others see Trump: People Are Photoshopping Trump As a Little Kid Just To Annoy Him


From the news today, sounds like the grown ups didn't keep the meds from that kid.


----------



## ian

Lets hope he takes a triple dose and washes it down with a good shot of disinfectant. Might give him something to brag, brag, brag about.


----------



## Prairie Guy

ian said:


> Lets hope he takes a triple dose and washes it down with a good shot of disinfectant. Might give him something to brag, brag, brag about.


Some people proudly display for all to see that they will believe any lie that the media says.


----------



## KonradvonMarburg

Did OP pass away from COVID-19?


----------



## ian

I certainly do not believe the media reports......let alone anything that Trump says.


----------



## Spudd

Prairie Guy said:


> Some people proudly display for all to see that they will believe any lie that the media says.


What lie, specifically?


----------



## andrewf

The 'lie' that Trump suggested that injecting disinfectant was an idea worth investigating. This despite the fact that Trump said exactly this in as much context as you could want. Turns out Trump claimed he was trying to 'trick' the media.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Trump needs to trick the media? That's funny...they either been fooled and have lied every single day since he's been elected.

Or they're just dishonest...you decide.


----------



## andrewf

Media being dishonest and Trump being a moron are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Media being dishonest and Trump being a moron are not mutually exclusive.


True, but you've fallen for many of their lies. Perhaps you should stop calling Trump a moron until you stop being duped.


----------



## kcowan

Prairie Guy said:


> True, but you've fallen for many of their lies. Perhaps you should stop calling Trump a moron until you stop being duped.


Although he was described as a f*cking moron by his trusted sidekick, I think that is a superficial description. His moves are calculated to manipulate people. He is a devious conman.


----------



## bgc_fan

kcowan said:


> Although he was described as a f*cking moron by his trusted sidekick, I think that is a superficial description. His moves are calculated to manipulate people. He is a devious conman.


He's not a particularly good conman. He's the epitome of "big hat, no cattle" syndrome. He talks big, but at the end of the day, delivers nothing. The people who buy into him, are those who buy into his image, which is why he gets triggered easily when you start questioning his image, i.e. small hands, hair, weight. He has nothing of substance and if it wasn't for his father's name, we would never have heard of him. People make a big deal about the money his father gave him, the biggest legacy is the Trump name that he lived on. He just built upon his father's reputation which opened a lot more doors than if his name was Joe Smith.


----------



## Prairie Guy

^^
Let's compare: Hillary was in public service for 30+ years and accomplished absolutely nothing and yet she was pushed as qualified. She also ran on the very well known Clinton name and that still wasn't enough. 

Trump was successful for most of his career and in his very first attempt running for office he became president.


----------



## andrewf

kcowan said:


> Although he was described as a f*cking moron by his trusted sidekick, I think that is a superficial description. His moves are calculated to manipulate people. He is a devious conman.


He can be very savvy in manipulation and propaganda while also being a dullard intellectually. Either he is the greatest actor of all time, or he's not just playing dumb.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump was successful for most of his career and in his very first attempt running for office he became president.


Successful TV personality? His business ventures typically have ended in bankruptcy (if not outright fraud a la Trump University).


----------



## bgc_fan

andrewf said:


> he is the greatest actor of all time, or he's not just playing dumb.


He doesn't have an Oscar... so, I'll go with option B.

The thing is, he is good at saying nonsense so that you can't pin him down and hold him accountable, and he will say what he thinks the audience wants to hear as a way get approval.


----------



## andrewf

He also is a master at the technique of causing so much outrage on a continuous basis that people become inured to it. If he was less of a bald-faced liar, smarter, etc. he would actually be less popular because the remaining controversies would actually get oxygen to breath and stick to him. Baffle them with bullshit, Donny!


----------



## KonradvonMarburg

I love him.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Successful TV personality? His business ventures typically have ended in bankruptcy (if not outright fraud a la Trump University).


He's had far more success than lack of success.

Trump won because he ran against Hillary who has absolutely no qualifications. No one can name a single accomplishment of hers in spite of spending 4 full decades in office. You can't either.

Put up or shut up.


----------



## andrewf

Hillary is a lawyer, so has some passing familiarity with the law. She was also Secretary of State. Trump was a reality TV personality. I guess his main qualification was saying 'you're fired', since his admin has been an absolute shambles and revolving door. He has stabbed almost every person who has supported him in the back. What a leader.


----------



## andrewf

The most successful part of Trump admin has been Mitch McConnell controlling the Senate and packing the courts. Trump has had basically nothing to contribute to that. Mitch gets pretty much all the credit, there.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Hillary is a lawyer, so has some passing familiarity with the law. She was also Secretary of State.


I was right...you can't name a single accomplishment of Hillary's. No one can.


----------



## Beaver101

kcowan said:


> Although he was described as a f*cking moron by his trusted sidekick, I think that is a superficial description. His moves are calculated to manipulate people. *He is a devious conman.*


 ... he's surpassed that now ... he's Evil meaning there's no hope of redemption for this one.


----------



## Money172375

Prairie Guy said:


> I was right...you can't name a single accomplishment of Hillary's. No one can.


How do you define accomplishment?


----------



## Prairie Guy

Money172375 said:


> How do you define accomplishment?


The dictionary explanation works for me. Therefore, being appointed to SoS because of your husband's status is not really an accomplishment. It falls under the same category as Hunter Biden's "accomplishments".

Obviously you can't name any of her accomplishments either or you would have. All the people that wonder why Hillary didn't win don't get it and never will. They somehow think that someone who served in office for 4 decades and accomplished absolutely nothing in that time deserves to be president.


----------



## andrewf

Ten seconds of googling:








14 Hillary Clinton Accomplishments


What has Hillary Clinton done? She has held integral roles such as First Lady, U.S. Senator, and Secretary of State.




www.thebalance.com






> *First Lady*
> 
> Hillary chaired the Task Force on Health Care Reform that drafted the 1993 Health Security Act. Although Congress didn't pass it, it laid the groundwork for the Affordable Care Act. It also cleared the way for the Children's Health Insurance Program.1 She worked with Senators Edward Kennedy and Orrin Hatch who sponsored the bill. It received $24 billion, paid for by a 15-cent tax on cigarettes. She added $1 billion for an outreach program to help states publicize the program and sign up recipients. It provides health care to more than eight million children.
> 
> 
> In 1994, she championed the Violence Against Women Act.2 That provides financial and technical assistance to states to help them develop programs that stop domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking. In 1995, she also helped create the Department of Justice's Office on Violence Against Women.
> She supported the 1997 Adoption and Safe Families Act. Representative Nancy Johnson, a Republican, sponsored the bill. It facilitates the adoption of foster children.3 It also allows states and local agencies greater flexibility on how to spend federal funds.
> 
> 
> She lobbied Congress for the 1999 Foster Care Independence Act.4 Senators John Chafee, R-RI, and Tom DeIay, R-TX, sponsored the bill. The Act almost doubled federal spending for programs that help teenagers leave foster care after they turn 18. The programs help them complete their education, find jobs, and become self-sufficient.
> 
> *U.S. Senator*
> 
> Urged ratification of the START treaty in 2010.5 The treaty limits the United States and Russia to 1,550 strategic deployed nuclear warheads.6 That's down from 2,200. It limits the number of deployed heavy nuclear bombers and missiles to 800. That's down from 1,600. Russia was already within those limits, but the United States was not. The treaty went into effect in 2011, will be fully implemented by 2018, and will remain in force until 2028.
> Introduced the Pediatric Research Equity Act with Senator Mike DeWine, R-OH.7 This law requires drug companies to research how their products affect children. The Act changed drug labeling to disclose safety and dosage for children. That's lowered the danger of over-dosage for children with chronic diseases like epilepsy and asthma.
> 
> 
> Worked with fellow New York Democrat, Senator Chuck Schumer, to get $21 billion in federal aid to help New York rebuild after the 9/11 attacks.8 She wrote the bill to get health care coverage for 9/11 first responders. That included health research related to the attacks. The rescue operations forced many police and firefighters into early retirement with debilitating chronic injuries and illnesses. Her successor, Senator Kirsten Hillibrand, got the bill passed.
> Worked with Republicans to achieve full military health benefits to National Guard members and reservists.9 Expanded Family Medical Leave Act to families with wounded veterans.
> 
> 
> *Secretary of State*
> 
> Took the lead on drafting and negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement. Once ratified, it would increase U.S. exports by $123.5 billion annually by 2025.10 Industries that benefit the most include electrical, autos, plastics, and agriculture.
> Successfully concluded bilateral trade agreements with South Korea, Colombia, and Panama in 2011. The Korea agreement removed almost 80% of tariffs and increased exports by $10 billion. The Colombia agreement expanded U.S. exports by $1.1 billion.
> 
> 
> Negotiated ceasefire between Israel and Hamas in 2012.11
> Called for the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan.12 Sided with CIA Director Leon Panetta who first told her it was possible. Overcame opposition from Vice-President Biden and Defense Secretary Robert Gates who were worried about political backlash if the raid failed.
> Pushed the United Nations to impose sanctions on Iran in 2010. That created a recession in Iran. The economy shrank 6.6% in 2012 and 1.9% in 2013. That's because they cut Iran's oil exports in half. Clinton was personally involved in these diplomatic efforts and pushed them publicly.13 The sanctions made Iran agree to stop building nuclear weapons in 2015.
> 
> 
> Instrumental in negotiating the 2009 Copenhagen Climate Change Accord.1415 The developed and major developing nations agreed to limit global temperature increases to 2 degrees Celsius over the pre-industrial level. They also agreed to pay $100 billion a year by 2020 to assist poor countries affected the most by climate change.
> 
> *Timeline and Additional Accomplishments*
> *1977:* Founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families.16 It did research and educate the public on children's issues. Joined Rose Law Firm. Appointed by President Carter to chair the board of the Legal Services Corporation.
> 
> *1979 to 1982:* First Lady of Arkansas during Governor Clinton's Administration. Became first woman partner of Rose Law Firm.
> 
> *1982 to 1992:* First Lady of Arkansas. Chaired Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, which created new state school standards. Founded Arkansas Home Instruction Program for Pre-School Youth. Helped created Arkansas' first neonatal intensive care unit. On the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital and the Legal Services and Children's Defense Fund. Corporate board member of TCBY and Lafarge. First female board member of Wal-Mart from 1986 to 1992. Chaired American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession from 1987 to 1991. Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983. Arkansas Mother of the Year in 1984.
> 
> *1993 to 2001:* First Lady during the Clinton administration. Chair of the Task Force on National Healthcare Reform. She continued to be a leading advocate for expanding health insurance coverage, ensuring children are properly immunized, and raising public awareness of health issues. She was the first First Lady with a postgraduate degree.
> 
> *2000 to 2008:* U.S. Senator from New York. Senate Committees: Armed Services; Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; Environment and Public Works; Budget; Aging. Member of Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. She also led the charge on the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Act.
> 
> *2009 to 2013:* U.S. Secretary of State in the Obama administration. Opened Chinese markets to U.S. companies.


----------



## Money172375

Prairie Guy said:


> The dictionary explanation works for me. Therefore, being appointed to SoS because of your husband's status is not really an accomplishment. It falls under the same category as Hunter Biden's "accomplishments".
> 
> Obviously you can't name any of her accomplishments either or you would have. All the people that wonder why Hillary didn't win don't get it and never will. They somehow think that someone who served in office for 4 decades and accomplished absolutely nothing in that time deserves to be president.


if my child was elected to any public office, I would consider that an accomplishment. So we obviously have different definitions of “accomplishment”. I like “the successful achievement of a task”. Seems like she has some accomplishments. I suspect you’re looking for “political wins/policy” that she can take credit for. That is a matter of debate.
whether she has achieved “accomplishments” or is considered “accomplished” is not up for debate. Political leanings aside, if she was your child, you’d be proud.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Ten seconds of googling:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 Hillary Clinton Accomplishments
> 
> 
> What has Hillary Clinton done? She has held integral roles such as First Lady, U.S. Senator, and Secretary of State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thebalance.com


I guess marrying a future president is an accomplishment...or lobbying for legislation, or "urging" ratification, or working with fellow Democrats. Hilariously she is also credited with championing the violence against women act and then later went on TV to slander women that credibly accused her husband of sexual assault and rape.

As I stated...no real accomplishments and in many cases credit was given to her for just being there when things got done.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Money172375 said:


> if she was your child, you’d be proud.


Nope. I'd be terrified if my daughter married a rapist.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> I guess marrying a future president is an accomplishment...or lobbying for legislation, or "urging" ratification, or working with fellow Democrats. Hilariously she is also credited with championing the violence against women act and then later went on TV to slander women that credibly accused her husband of sexual assault and rape.
> 
> As I stated...no real accomplishments and in many cases credit was given to her for just being there when things got done.


What has Trump accomplished? Getting divorced twice? Cheating on a sick wife? Got fired from network TV? Riding Mitch McConnell's coattails?

Didn't you just finish bragging that he got elected as President? I thought merely getting elected was not an accomplishment.

Clinton was a Senator. She got elected. She sponsored bills that were enacted into law.


----------



## Eder

Marla, Melania and Ivanna makes the orange guy the biggest winner of all time...can't fix ugly.


----------



## sags

Donald Trump and the Republicans have lost major talking points against Joe Biden in the race for President.

The lies against Biden are starting to come out in the media. Her lawyer just dropped her as a client.

Investigations into the claims of sexual assault by Tara Reade (aka Alexandra McCabe and Alexandra Tara Reade) have revealed a lot.

Not only is her past and statements very questionable, but she falsely claimed to be an expert on sexual violence and testified in many criminal trials.

Prosecutors and defense attorney's are going over all the trials to see what impact her testimony may have had. It involves some people convicted of murder.

It will be interesting to learn why she made the false claims and if somebody paid her to do so.......considering her past financial woes.

One wonders.......did she not think accusing a Presidential nominee of sexual assault would invite intense media scrutiny ?

Weaponizing domestic/sexual assault allegations against someone is incredibly destructive. There should be severe criminal penalties for doing so.









‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances


A number of those who crossed paths with Biden’s accuser say they remember two things: She spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped.




www.politico.com













Court cases where Biden accuser Tara Reade served as an expert witness are under scrutiny amid concerns that she misrepresented her educational credentials


"Had I had the information that I have now, this case, in my mind, would have gone differently," Lawyer Monique Hill told The Times.




www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Topo

Trump has clearly been a miserable failure when it comes to his Covid-19 response. The irony is that he is trying to blame it on China now. What a wuss!


----------



## Eder

I thought response was up to each State? Like each province addressed their own response ...some more successfully than others. Is that why mostly left leaning states are doing the worst? As far as Mr Orange he has already secured 300 million doses of vaccine as a pre emptive response for his citizens...what has little potato done as PM? I know he added wearing a sock on his nose now.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Topo said:


> Trump has clearly been a miserable failure when it comes to his Covid-19 response. The irony is that he is trying to blame it on China now. What a wuss!


Oh, it didn't start in China, who then covered it up? Where did it start then? Please provide evidence to back up your claim.


----------



## Topo

Prairie Guy said:


> Oh, it didn't start in China, who then covered it up? Where did it start then? Please provide evidence to back up your claim.


I didn't say it did not start in China. I am saying it is not China's fault. They missed the boat, because there was no precedent. Trump missed it, even though he had a lot more information to act on.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Topo said:


> I didn't say it did not start in China. I am saying it is not China's fault. They missed the boat, because there was no precedent. Trump missed it, even though he had a lot more information to act on.


Incorrect on both counts. You are repeating the same misinformation that has been debunked long ago.

Taiwan advised the WHO in December it was contagious. The WHO is controlled by China and never passed that information along until months later.

Trump received the same information as everyone else at the same time (other than the WHO) and he acted faster than most countries, especially Canada.


----------



## sags

Trump was fully informed of the virus early. He just doesn't pay attention to intelligence briefings.

Geez......it isn't like the US doesn't have anyone on the ground in China.


----------



## Topo

Prairie Guy said:


> Incorrect on both counts. You are repeating the same misinformation that has been debunked long ago.
> 
> Taiwan advised the WHO in December it was contagious. The WHO is controlled by China and never passed that information along until months later.
> 
> Trump received the same information as everyone else at the same time (other than the WHO) and he acted faster than most countries, especially Canada.


He had enough information early enough. It just happened that he naively thought he can sweep it under the rug so that it would not affect his re-election prospects. Well, a few thousand Americans have paid with their lives so far.

The irony is that a strong, science-based response would have helped him more with the election.


----------



## Topo

Posted under wrong topic


----------



## Prairie Guy

Topo said:


> He had enough information early enough. It just happened that he naively thought he can sweep it under the rug so that it would not affect his re-election prospects. Well, a few thousand Americans have paid with their lives so far.


You've provided no proof to back up your accusations. All you're doing is repeating leftist media talking points that have been proven false.


----------



## Topo

Prairie Guy said:


> You've provided no proof to back up your accusations. All you're doing is repeating leftist media talking points that have been proven false.


There is no need for any talking points or spin. The guy is a treasure trove of misinformation. For a few look into this article:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/26/ingest-bleach-trump-coronavirus/



And please P.G.: Do not, and I mean DO NOT, follow his medical advice.

Politically speaking, it would have been smart for him to toe the line of the experts. If things went well, he could gloat and take credit for his leadership. If it went downhill, blame the experts. But it would be grammatically incorrect to use "Trump" and "smart" in the same sentence.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Now you're posting WashPo lies. You'll believe anything they tell you, won't you?


----------



## Eder

Or anyone depending on the Washington Post for current event news haha. Might as well use Facebook.


----------



## Topo

You can't erase the truth by calling everything lies...

He said it on camera, the "bleach" thing and many more...


----------



## Prairie Guy

Some people believe what they want to believe, even when the direct evidence says otherwise. Some of them can even read people's minds and are convinced that completely innocent comments are really code for something else. Of course those same people have the amazing ability to ignore what their side really said and will lecture us that it's taken out of context.


----------



## Beaver101

It's funny enough that there're no CDC medical experts appointed at WHO regarding this pandemic or have they been silenced by their Master Dump? Can't wait for our expert Dr. Aylward to say something about how an epidemic got full blown to a pandemic when he returns to Canadian soil.


----------



## Topo

Trump wouldn't even qualify as a 3rd rate president in a 3rd world country. What sane person would think injecting bleach is a good idea? or nuking a hurricane?


----------



## Beaver101

Topo said:


> Trump wouldn't even qualify as a 3rd rate president in a 3rd world country. What sane person would think injecting bleach is a good idea? or nuking a hurricane?


  ...in MAGA from day 1 of his royal dictatorship,


----------



## Longtimeago

I think there are some posters in this forum who really should move to the USA. It's a handy place, being just next door, to dump some garbage.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Now you're posting WashPo lies. You'll believe anything they tell you, won't you?


You post Trump lies. You'll believe anything he says, won't you?

Wasn't COVID-19 going to disappear by Easter?


----------



## Beaver101

C.D.C. Test Counting Error Leaves Epidemiologists ‘Really Baffled’

*C.D.C. Test Counting Error Leaves Epidemiologists ‘Really Baffled’*

The Centers for Disease Control has been lumping together tests for active coronavirus with tests for recovered patients, boosting testing totals but muddying the pandemic’s course.



> WASHINGTON — As it tracks the coronavirus’s spread, t*he Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is combining tests that detect active infection with those that detect recovery from Covid-19 — a system that muddies the picture of the pandemic but raises the percentage of Americans tested as President Trump boasts about testing.*
> 
> Now that serology tests, which look for antibodies in the blood of people who have recovered, are more widespread, C.D.C. officials said Friday they would work to separate them from the results of diagnostic tests, which detect active infection. One of the agency’s data tracker websites has been lumping them together.
> 
> Stunned epidemiologists say data from antibody tests and active virus tests should never be mixed because diagnostic testing seeks to quantify the amount of active disease in the population. Serological testing can also be unreliable. And patients who have had both diagnostic and serology tests would be counted twice in the totals.
> 
> “It just doesn’t make any sense; all of us are really baffled,” said Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at the University of Florida. ...


 ... the only thing that makes alot of sense are the testing numbers being inflated so the Dump can boast about it. 

God help the poor Americans now since the "experts" at CDC can't ... even count. 1+1 = 4.


----------



## sags

Outbreaks reported all over the US. Matt Drudge, who is a Republican and past Trump supporter aggregates it on his website.





__





DRUDGE REPORT 2023®






www.drudgereport.com





Los Angeles hot spot, disaster in New Orleans, rural States overrun health care systems, a dozen different strains of virus..........lots there.

And the CDC warns of excessively aggressive rats......and these people.









Pool party at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri draws a packed crowd


Video posted by a reporter shows partiers crowded together in a pool at the Lake of the Ozarks, Mo. on Memorial Day weekend.




www.ctvnews.ca


----------



## sags

Keep the border with the US closed.


----------



## Topo

Looks like War of the Worlds....and Trump is with the Martians because they promise to re-elect him.


----------



## Topo

> COVID gave Trump a chance to be a decent, compassionate human being (or pretending to be). But he couldn't even do that.
> — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) May 24, 2020


https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1264478130766524421?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Even Ann Coulter has turned on him.

"....Where do we go now...." Guns 'N Roses


----------



## bgc_fan

Topo said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264478130766524421
> Even Ann Coulter has turned on him.
> 
> "....Where do we go now...." Guns 'N Roses


Since when did Ann Coulter care about decent, compassionate human beings? Is that a fake twitter account?

I thought she turned on him a long time ago, when he didn't get the funding for the border wall.


----------



## Topo

bgc_fan said:


> Since when did Ann Coulter care about decent, compassionate human beings? Is that a fake twitter account?
> 
> I thought she turned on him a long time ago, when he didn't get the funding for the border wall.


Most people will agree that Ann Coulter is a longtime, true conservative. 

Not an opportunist like Trump.


----------



## sags

Trump and former AG Jeff Sessions are in a Twitter war as well.



https://twitter.com/jeffsessions?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor


----------



## Beaver101

GOP Rep. Warns Trump On Wild Scarborough Murder Claim: 'Just Stop. It Will Destroy Us.'

The TDS' Club comes to fruition here or "Thank god the old Trump is back" , derangedly contained in this thread.


----------



## bgc_fan

Topo said:


> Most people will agree that Ann Coulter is a longtime, true conservative.
> 
> Not an opportunist like Trump.


We know Trump is a RINO, he had accused Mitt Romney of being one. Trump is all about projection; you can be sure if he accuses someone of something, he is either that or did that.

Fun little article: Hitler was incompetent and lazy—and his Nazi government was an absolute clown show | Opinion


----------



## Prairie Guy

And the very best the Democrats could find out of millions of qualified candidates to run against Trump is senile, crooked, and gropey "you ain't black if you don't vote for me" Joe. I can't wait for the debates...although the Dems will probably use the virus as an excuse to keep Biden hidden in the basement away from live speaking events.


----------



## sags

The US badly needs experience in the White House for a few years to right the ship and get it back on course.

"Sleepy Joe" will be a welcome relief to most Americans.

The election is more about the next President in 2024.....Biden's VP choice.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

Trump said "in Hollywood they let you grab them by the *****" and they screamed he was not fit to be President. Joe Biden grabbed Tara Reade by the ***** and all you hear from the left is excuses. How come no one had pointed out this odd coincidence? I guess if it wasn't for double standards the Democrats would have no standards at all.


----------



## sags

Have you not read the news on Tara Reade ? Even her lawyer dropped her as a client.


----------



## andrewf

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Trump said "in Hollywood they let you grab them by the ***" and they screamed he was not fit to be President. Joe Biden grabbed Tara Reade by the *** and all you hear from the left is excuses. How come no one had pointed out this odd coincidence? I guess if it wasn't for double standards the Democrats would have no standards at all.











Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Prairie Guy

Anyone who believes the political accuracy of Wiki probably watches CNN and MSNBC and can't see bias there either.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Wikipeida: 

The page "Clinton rape accusations" does not exist.
The page "Clinton sexual assault" does not exist.
The page "Joe biden sexual allegations" does not exist

We can do this all day long. Any hint of Democrat scandal on Wiki either does not exist or is a called a conspiracy theory.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Wikipeida:
> 
> The page "Clinton rape accusations" does not exist.
> The page "Clinton sexual assault" does not exist.
> The page "Joe biden sexual allegations" does not exist
> 
> We can do this all day long. Any hint of Democrat scandal on Wiki either does not exist or is a called a conspiracy theory.


Please, don't lie--especially when it is trivially disproven by anyone using google for 5 seconds.
Do you actually believe what you say or is it just rhetoric and you hope no one looks too closely?









Bill Clinton sexual assault and misconduct allegations - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Joe Biden sexual assault allegation - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Topo

Prairie Guy said:


> Anyone who believes the political accuracy of Wiki probably watches CNN and MSNBC and can't see bias there either.


There may be bias (it is hard to overcome), but that is completely different than saying everything is a lie. FNC has a bias toward conservatism too, however, most of what they say can be categorized as facts.


----------



## Eder

I do feel sorry for the people of the USA ...their upcoming election really has 2 bad choices again and thats the Dem's & Rep's fault.


----------



## andrewf

Yes. The fact that Biden was nominated is a travesty. Same with Trump in 2016. Their parties are seriously letting the country down.


----------



## sags

Have no fear. Amtrak Joe is just what the Democrats need to win the important blue collar States.

He is also just what America needs after 4 years of the Trump circus. Joe Biden is a man of the people.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

Bill Maher: All the Democrats have to do to win in 2020 is nominate someone less crazy than Trump.

Democrats: Hold my beer and watch this.


----------



## calm

Politics is just a game of musical chairs.
In Canada we brag about democracy when it is the unelected senate which has the real power within our system.
In America, the constitution (1787) gave all the power to elected representatives, but in 1803 a rightwing justice changed the system all by his lonesome (Marbury versus Madison) and which gave all the power to the Supreme Court and said that it could strike down any law passed in congress.

Worse ..... looking at our society, the supreme court allowed it to happen.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Please, don't lie--especially when it is trivially disproven by anyone using google for 5 seconds.
> Do you actually believe what you say or is it just rhetoric and you hope no one looks too closely?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Clinton sexual assault and misconduct allegations - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Biden sexual assault allegation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


No lie. Even the founder of Wikipedia says they've gone too far left:

"Larry Sanger, the co-founder of Wikipedia, published a blog post this month declaring that the online encyclopedia’s “neutral point of view” policy is “dead” due to the rampant left-wing bias of the site."









Wikipedia Co-Founder: Site's Neutrality Is 'Dead' Thanks to Leftist Bias


Larry Sanger, co-founder of Wikipedia, published a blog post earlier this month declaring the online encyclopedia’s “neutral point of view” policy was “dead” due to the rampant left-wing bias of the site’s articles. Noting the article on President Trump, Sanger contrasted its extensive coverage...




www.breitbart.com


----------



## andrewf

calm said:


> Politics is just a game of musical chairs.
> In Canada we brag about democracy when it is the unelected senate which has the real power within our system.
> In America, the constitution (1787) gave all the power to elected representatives, but in 1803 a rightwing justice changed the system all by his lonesome (Marbury versus Madison) and which gave all the power to the Supreme Court and said that it could strike down any law passed in congress.
> 
> Worse ..... looking at our society, the supreme court allowed it to happen.


Senate in Canada has very little power. They rarely make more than cursory amendments to House legislation and if it really comes down to it the House can overrule the Senate. Maybe you are confused with the US Senate.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> No lie. Even the founder of Wikipedia says they've gone too far left:
> 
> "Larry Sanger, the co-founder of Wikipedia, published a blog post this month declaring that the online encyclopedia’s “neutral point of view” policy is “dead” due to the rampant left-wing bias of the site."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wikipedia Co-Founder: Site's Neutrality Is 'Dead' Thanks to Leftist Bias
> 
> 
> Larry Sanger, co-founder of Wikipedia, published a blog post earlier this month declaring the online encyclopedia’s “neutral point of view” policy was “dead” due to the rampant left-wing bias of the site’s articles. Noting the article on President Trump, Sanger contrasted its extensive coverage...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.breitbart.com


It is closer to neutral than any news outlet. I'm sure you can find instances of bias, but mostly it is just statements of fact. You are moving the goal posts though, as you were clearly demonstrated to be making untrue statements about wikipedia censoring content regarding allegations against Biden and Clinton. Admit it--you were trying to mislead people.


----------



## calm

andrewf said:


> Senate in Canada has very little power. They rarely make more than cursory amendments to House legislation and if it really comes down to it the House can overrule the Senate. Maybe you are confused with the US Senate.


The senate can refuse Royal Assent.


----------



## calm

andrewf said:


> It is closer to neutral than any news outlet. I'm sure you can find instances of bias, but mostly it is just statements of fact. You are moving the goal posts though, as you were clearly demonstrated to be making untrue statements about wikipedia censoring content regarding allegations against Biden and Clinton. Admit it--you were trying to mislead people.


Wikipedia – A tool of the ruling elite 
On the latest episode of On Contact, investigative journalist Helen Buyniski exposes Jimmy Wales’ egalitarian Wikipedia as yet another tool of the ruling elite.
RT - On Contact
Host Chris Hedges interviews Helen Buyniski
October 21, 2018








On contact


Author and social critic Chris Hedges hosts a weekly interview show called ‘On Contact,’ which will air “dissident voices” currently missing from the mainstream media. Hedges interviews the black sheep of the establishment, leading discussions that can’t be heard anywhere else.




www.rt.com









Wikipedia: Rotten to the Core


Wikipedia may have begun life as an open-source utopia of free knowledge, but it has devolved into a repressive oligarchy run by unaccountable petty tyrants. It is a punitive system that targets those who refuse to toe the line. Anyone who represents a threat to the establishment can become a...




www.helenofdestroy.com






Wikipedia: Rotten to the Core? - Progressive Radio Network










Caught In The Cross Hairs – Media Lens And The Mystery Of The Wikipedia Editor


In June, the BBC reported that someone operating under the name ‘Philip Cross’ had been extraordinarily active in editing Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit: ‘”Philip Cross” has made hundreds of thousands of edits to Wikipedia pages. But in the process he’s angered anti-war activi




www.medialens.org












EI exclusive: a pro-Israel group's plan to rewrite history on Wikipedia


A pro-Israel pressure group is orchestrating a secret, long-term campaign to infiltrate the popular online encyclopedia Wikipedia to rewrite Palestinian history, pass off crude propaganda as fact, and take over Wikipedia administrative structures to ensure these changes go either undetected or...




electronicintifada.net












ITn'Co Prestataire Informatique pour les Entreprises : IT, Télécom, Sécurité


Sécurisez l'informatique de votre entreprise grace à nos solutions : infogérance, sauvegarde, téléphonie sur IP, sécurité des données



www.mister-info.com








__





Zionist propaganda body seeks volunteers to distort Wikipedia input on Middle East


Palestine News from Palestine and around the Globe...A Different Perspective




windowintopalestine.blogspot.com












Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups


Two Israeli groups set up training courses in Wikipedia editing with aims to 'show the other side' over borders and culture




www.guardian.co.uk












Gilad Atzmon: United Against Knowledge — Gilad Atzmon thoughts and music


The Guardian reported today that two Israeli groups have set up training courses in subversive Wikipedia editing aiming to 'show the other side' of the Jewish State. Those who lend their pen to the Palestinian cause know about Wikipedia Jews , a term that was coined a few y




www.gilad.co.uk












Israeli propagandists taking over Wikipedia?


The Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that operates Wikipedia and other free knowledge projects, has signed an agreement that will allow Israeli propagandists to promote apartheid I…




www.redressonline.com









Now it is official: Israeli campaign to control Wikipedia content







www.friendsoflebanon.org




(Flash Video)








Wikipedia – a tool of the ruling elite


On the latest episode of On Contact, investigative journalist Helen Buyniski exposes Jimmy Wales’ egalitarian Wikipedia as yet another tool of the ruling elite




www.rt.com


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> The senate can refuse Royal Assent.


And the Governor General can dissolve Parliament at any time without input from the current government. There's a lot of things that can happen, but the likelihood is minute.


----------



## calm

bgc_fan said:


> And the Governor General can dissolve Parliament at any time without input from the current government. There's a lot of things that can happen, but the likelihood is minute.


I always think in terms of "When Push Comes To Shove". The Ruling Class will use whatever tool is necessary to maintain the status quo.


----------



## cainvest

calm said:


> The senate can refuse Royal Assent.


Has it ever been refused?


----------



## calm

cainvest said:


> Has it ever been refused?


I don't think so. I did a quick Google Search and only found one in Sask.
If progressives were voted into office and passed a law curtailing free trade, I am sure that the senate would refuse to give it royal assent.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> I always think in terms of "When Push Comes To Shove". The Ruling Class will use whatever tool is necessary to maintain the status quo.


So, who exactly do you think is the ruling class in the Canadian government, particularly when it comes to the Senate? While we probably disagree on the Senate selection, I prefer it as the current situation where anyone can apply and their applications are vetted by the Independent Advisory Board. Then whomever remains, gets their name to the PM for sign off. Personally, I find it better than the old system of the PM picking friends, or the US system of electing, which ends up politicizing the position.


----------



## calm

I think that we should do away with the senate.
I think that parliament should be prominent.
I get angry just thinking about the excuse that the senate is a babysitter of sorts in order to make sure that MP's tow the corporate line. A place of "Sober Thought" makes me cringe.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> I think that we should do away with the senate.
> I think that parliament should be prominent.
> I get angry just thinking about the excuse that the senate is a babysitter of sorts in order to make sure that MP's tow the corporate line. A place of "Sober Thought" makes me cringe.


The Senate is not meant for the MPs to tow the corporate line. It is supposed to be independent of party affiliation. There's obvious characteristics on why the Senate does this: appointment until retirement, and appointment as opposed to elections.


----------



## calm

I first resented the fact that people were going outside without taking precautions with a mask or that people were arguing statistics as though a historian arguing how many Jewish Folks were killed in the holocaust.

But, I now realize I was wrong ..... It seems to me that Trump supporters are the worst offenders. 
I should be encouraging Trump supporters to prance around imitating Trump because there will be multiple deaths and thus fewer Republican voters.


----------



## Eder

There is no point to a mask outside other than propaganda and wishful thinking.


----------



## calm

Outside means anywhere where you are unable to maintain the 6 foot distancing.


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> But, I now realize I was wrong ..... It seems to me that Trump supporters are the worst offenders.
> I should be encouraging Trump supporters to prance around imitating Trump because there will be multiple deaths and thus fewer Republican voters.


Governor Cuomo deliberately sent old people back to the senior homes so that they'd spread the disease and kill the other residents. But once you realize that he's a Democrat and old people tend to vote Republican it all makes sense. 

Now people on this site are wishing more Republicans to die. The left are mentally unstable and a threat to freedom.


----------



## bgc_fan

Someone is upset about being called on conspiracy theories: Trump threatens to shut down social-media platforms after Twitter put a fact-check warning on his false tweets


----------



## calm

I think that people should worry about what Trump might do if he loses the election.
The election is November, but transition is January.


----------



## Beaver101

bgc_fan said:


> Someone is upset about being called on conspiracy theories: Trump threatens to shut down social-media platforms after Twitter put a fact-check warning on his false tweets


 ... the Dump should do that since he's the BIGGEST TWIT of them all, spewing lies, rants, bawlings, etc. poor baby.


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ... the Dump should do that since he's the BIGGEST TWIT of them all, spewing lies, rants, bawlings, etc. poor baby.


It's a hollow threat and everyone knows it... except maybe Trump. Without Twitter, he wouldn't have as big a following as he does now.


----------



## andrewf

bgc_fan said:


> Someone is upset about being called on conspiracy theories: Trump threatens to shut down social-media platforms after Twitter put a fact-check warning on his false tweets


Where are all the free speech advocates defending social media platforms from 'fascist Trump'?

Twitter was forced to choose what to do. When the President uses their platform to falsely accuse someone of murder, they are exposed to libel claims.


----------



## calm

I have been following this "Censorship" problem for a few years now.
Thousands of websites are being discarded from Google Search Results.

Soon, we will need a special licence to view any content outside of North America.
A special broadcasting licence to post any video content.

Each country will have their own Intranet.


----------



## andrewf

There are alternatives if you are concerned. Duckduckgo for search, Bitchute/vimeo for video. Google is not a monopoly.

Much of the whinging about censorship is bunk (not getting paid for advertising against your content is not censorship--advertisers have no obligation to advertise next to your content), I have witnessed some legitimately concerning blacklisting. A youtuber I follow called Thunderf00t (Philip Mason) is apparently blacklisted in Google search results (but not youtube search). He's pretty reasonable (a research scientist who occasionally dabbles in politics/philosophy). He definitely is not churning out misinformation or anything, but reasonable people could disagree with him.


----------



## cainvest

calm said:


> I have been following this "Censorship" problem for a few years now.
> Thousands of websites are being discarded from Google Search Results.


Free speech doesn't mean you have the right to use someone elses megaphone but you are free to use you own.


----------



## calm

What Google and Facebook Are Hiding
The American Deep State Strikes Back
By Ron Unz
May 24, 2020








What Google and Facebook Are Hiding


The American Deep State Strikes Back



www.unz.com


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> I think that people should worry about what Trump might do if he loses the election.
> The election is November, but transition is January.


It can't be any worse than what Hillary did. She still hasn't accepted her loss.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Where are all the free speech advocates defending social media platforms from 'fascist Trump'?
> 
> Twitter was forced to choose what to do. When the President uses their platform to falsely accuse someone of murder, they are exposed to libel claims.


But you can still falsely accuse Trump of being a Russian spy. That's still allowed.

Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook silence opposing views only. You don't care because you support the side that is censoring. When they come for you no one will be left to defend you.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> But you can still falsely accuse Trump of being a Russian spy. That's still allowed.
> 
> Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook silence opposing views only. You don't care because you support the side that is censoring. When they come for you no one will be left to defend you.


I respect VerticalScope's right to decide whether to host anything I might post. Do you want a government gestapo to force Google, Twitter, etc. to engage in compelled speech by hosting such content? Whether you like it or not, that's the reality. You can like it or you can pound sand.


----------



## calm

Someone asked .... How can the dummy solve problems created by the ventriloquist?


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> I respect VerticalScope's right to decide whether to host anything I might post. Do you want a government gestapo to force Google, Twitter, etc. to engage in compelled speech by hosting such content? Whether you like it or not, that's the reality. You can like it or you can pound sand.


Under the terms of their license, Twitter and YouTube HAVE to allow opposing viewpoints. They are licensed as a platform and are not allowed to discriminate and to do so is in direct violation of their license. They knew the rules when they were granted their license and they now choose to break the rules.

It's been the same for decades...the left can't win an argument with facts so they have to censor opposing opinions. You can defend them if you like...it's a free country (so far), but you are defending censorship and that's fascism. And that's okay too...you're allowed to be a fascist, but just be an adult and admit it.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> Under the terms of their license, Twitter and YouTube HAVE to allow opposing viewpoints. They are licensed as a platform and are not allowed to discriminate and to do so is in direct violation of their license. They knew the rules when they were granted their license and they now choose to break the rules.


I'd like you to pull out this license since you're the one making this statement. They don't have to allow anything they don't want to have on their site.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Under the terms of their license, Twitter and YouTube HAVE to allow opposing viewpoints. They are licensed as a platform and are not allowed to discriminate and to do so is in direct violation of their license. They knew the rules when they were granted their license and they now choose to break the rules.
> 
> It's been the same for decades...the left can't win an argument with facts so they have to censor opposing opinions. You can defend them if you like...it's a free country (so far), but you are defending censorship and that's fascism. And that's okay too...you're allowed to be a fascist, but just be an adult and admit it.


Youtube does host opposing viewpoints. They do take down content that is illegal (copyright infringement, child endangerment, etc.) and that violates their community guidelines. There is an absolute mountain of 'conservative' content on youtube. To say they are not allowing 'opposing' viewpoints is plainly wrong. YouTube is not indemnified against copyright claims if they are made aware of disputes--they have to take down content that allegedly violates copyright, which is what happened in this case. Censorship on YT's part in this case is purely imaginary and has no basis in fact. Any video with any message would have been taken down if a copyright claim was made against it. That is how YT works.


----------



## calm

Twitter fact checking is very bad news for Trump.
Because of the virus, Trump intended to kind of run his campaign through Twitter, but now Twitter is gonna Fact Check the guy.
Very bad news for Trump.


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> Twitter fact checking is very bad news for Trump.
> Because of the virus, Trump intended to kind of run his campaign through Twitter, but now Twitter is gonna Fact Check the guy.
> Very bad news for Trump.


Who fact checks Twitter and what are their qualifications? Please be specific.


----------



## calm

Prairie Guy said:


> Who fact checks Twitter and what are their qualifications? Please be specific.


I do not support Twitter fact checking Trump.
I do not support Twitter calling the whole world anti-semites and banning them.

FaceBook says that it is Okay to Fact Check journalists but not politicians.

In February 2003, the Florida Court of Appeals overturned a jury verdict (although not its findings) that found Fox News guilty of distorting and falsifying news accounts essentially okaying the idea that the media can lie to its viewers because "it is not against any promulgated law, rule, or regulation for a licensed broadcaster to deliberately distort the news or lie on the air."

I would rather see a website like this do fact checking.
Bill Moyers used to interview Kathleen Hall Jamieson to do the fact checking.




__





FactCheck.org







www.factcheck.org


----------



## Eder

If you fact check then every politician is full of BS...remember when our potato recently said there was no more money for veterans...then a short time later found billions to pay students not to look for a job.


----------



## calm

I am watching the Trump Justice Department press conference about the police killing .....

The FBI and The Clowns can't say that the police union contract guides any decison to charge any officer.
The Justice Department knows that the union will finance a vigorous defense.
Poor black people keep saying ..... "If that was me, I would be in jail right now."
Left unsaid is that poor black people are in jail in 10 seconds flat, because they do not have the money to complicate and monitor the incident.

The police will protest if there is a rush to judgement. And when it comes to push and shove, it is the police who hold the city for ransom because they know the secret lives of all city politians and can destroy their careers anytime.

The same police that beg people to call and rat-out their neighbourhood for strealing the lawnmower with CrimeStoppers, is the same police that ridicule and shame any officer who steps forward and and rats on the rantk and file. (The Blue Line)

I remember:

“During the 1968 protests of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which drew about 10,000 protesters and was brutally crushed by the police, 1 out of 6 protesters was a federal undercover agent. That’s right, 1/6th of the total protesting population was made up of spooks drawn from various federal agencies. That’s roughly 1,600 people! The stat came from an Army document obtained by CBS News in 1978, a full decade after the protest took place. According to CBS, the infiltrators were not passive observers, monitoring and relaying information to central command, but were involved in violent confrontations with the police.”




__





Provocateur Porn: How Many Spooks Does It Take To Infiltrate A Protest Movement? - By Yasha Levine - The eXiled







exiledonline.com


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Who fact checks Twitter and what are their qualifications? Please be specific.


Are you saying people are too dumb to read both Trump's comment and twitter's fact check and make up their own minds?


----------



## bgc_fan

andrewf said:


> Are you saying people are too dumb to read both Trump's comment and twitter's fact check and make up their own minds?


In all honesty, Trump supporters aren't actually going to check the fact-check link, they'll just mount this false outrage about "freedom of speech", even though Trump isn't being censored, and Twitter is a private corporation, not the government. 

Meanwhile, people who don't support Trump won't bother to follow him, other than those who like watching car crashes.


----------



## calm

It seems to me that Trump got up one morning and knew that the virus had wrestled away any control of world events and America's place in it. Trump knows that history books will name the "Trump Era" as being the collapse of the American Empire.

Trump can hide out in the Oval Office as the walls of empire collapse around him, But has decided to brandish the frontier mythology and prance the world stages as though a John Wayne.

Trump is a Casino Boy and has decided to make a huge bet and act "Defiant" in the same fashion as a Jewish Person does when banging their heads against the Western Wall in Jerusalem while praying for the walls that surround them to collapse.

Open the economy and promise a vaccine within 6 months.

Trump intends to walk this "Defiant" bet with intentional boldness. Looking strong and resolute and well intentioned.

George Bush is now admired for spending 8 trillion "Defiant" U.S. Dollars for wars and mayhem. Trump will be rehabilitated in the same way.


----------



## andrewf

Trump collapsed American influence no thanks to COVID. Abandoning allies tends to do that.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Are you saying people are too dumb to read both Trump's comment and twitter's fact check and make up their own minds?


Twitter's fact check was proven to be false but it appears that the left heartily embraced it. So, I guess you're calling the left too dumb to read and make up their mind...but, we already knew that.


----------



## :) lonewolf

bgc_fan said:


> In all honesty, Trump supporters aren't actually going to check the fact-check link, they'll just mount this false outrage about "freedom of speech", even though Trump isn't being censored, and Twitter is a private corporation, not the government.
> 
> Meanwhile, people who don't support Trump won't bother to follow him, other than those who like watching car crashes.


Facebook Suppressing 1st Amendment & Human Rights Illegally | Armstrong Economics


----------



## bgc_fan

:) lonewolf said:


> Facebook Suppressing 1st Amendment & Human Rights Illegally | Armstrong Economics


1st Amendment rights only apply to government suppression. First Amendment - U.S. Constitution - FindLaw

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So can we agree that Armstrong Economics blog is fake information and has no place on this board?


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Twitter's fact check was proven to be false but it appears that the left heartily embraced it. So, I guess you're calling the left too dumb to read and make up their mind...but, we already knew that.


Proven? I think that is in your perception. I hadn't seen anything and I don't see anything after doing a search claiming the fact check is wrong. Only thing I saw was the distinction between absentee ballots and mail-in ballots.


----------



## andrewf

:) lonewolf said:


> Facebook Suppressing 1st Amendment & Human Rights Illegally | Armstrong Economics


Facebook is a private company and is under no obligation to ensure freedom of speech.

I can demonstrate this to you by finding some conservative forum. I guarantee you I could get banned within 10 posts, simply by posting polite questions. Muh freedumbs!


----------



## :) lonewolf

andrewf said:


> Facebook is a private company and is under no obligation to ensure freedom of speech.
> 
> I can demonstrate this to you by finding some conservative forum. I guarantee you I could get banned within 10 posts, simply by posting polite questions. Muh freedumbs!


 Face book went public in May 2012


----------



## bgc_fan

:) lonewolf said:


> Face book went public in May 2012


You don't understand the difference between a private company is when referenced to a public (i.e. government company)?


----------



## calm

We know that the Federal Reserve is purchasing every stock possible.
Therefore, the Federal Reserve (a privately owned bank) is privatizing all publicly owned corporations.

Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned
Case Reveals Fed's Status as a Private Institution








John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/appellee, 680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982)


John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/appellee, 680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982) case opinion from the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit




law.justia.com





The United States Isn't a Country — It's a Corporation!
By Lisa Guliani
2003




__





The United States Isn’t a Country — It’s a Corporation!


Lisa Guliani's explanation of the fact that the 'United States of America' is actually a corporation which owns all its citizens as its property.



www.serendipity.li





The Federal Reserve is even purchasing junk bonds such as Herbalife.








“It’s Like, ‘Fuck You, America’”: Aided by the Fed’s Cheap Money, Carl Icahn Is Exiting Herbalife and Making a Killing


The legendary investor basically controls Herbalife, which just issued $600 million in junk bonds, enabling it to buy back stock—much of it likely Icahn’s—for a healthy profit in the midst of a pandemic.




www.vanityfair.com


----------



## andrewf

:) lonewolf said:


> Face book went public in May 2012


I don't think that words means what you think it does.

_Dunning Kruger alert!_


----------



## :) lonewolf

calm said:


> We know that the Federal Reserve is purchasing every stock possible.
> Therefore, the Federal Reserve (a privately owned bank) is privatizing all publicly owned corporations.
> 
> Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned
> Case Reveals Fed's Status as a Private Institution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/appellee, 680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982)
> 
> 
> John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/appellee, 680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982) case opinion from the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> law.justia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States Isn't a Country — It's a Corporation!
> By Lisa Guliani
> 2003
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States Isn’t a Country — It’s a Corporation!
> 
> 
> Lisa Guliani's explanation of the fact that the 'United States of America' is actually a corporation which owns all its citizens as its property.
> 
> 
> 
> www.serendipity.li
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Federal Reserve is even purchasing junk bonds such as Herbalife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “It’s Like, ‘Fuck You, America’”: Aided by the Fed’s Cheap Money, Carl Icahn Is Exiting Herbalife and Making a Killing
> 
> 
> The legendary investor basically controls Herbalife, which just issued $600 million in junk bonds, enabling it to buy back stock—much of it likely Icahn’s—for a healthy profit in the midst of a pandemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vanityfair.com


 The Fed buying everything up is part of the scamdemic.


----------



## calm

_“Americans are the only people I know who believe their own propaganda.”_
–Deborah Eisenberg, American writer–

Trump Claims that China stole all the manufacturing and trade secrets. Actually, it was the U.S. Capitalists who abandoned North America. It was the U.S. Capitalists who provided the funds to build such huge manufacturing facilities in China that the Chinese are able to satisfy the American consumer with just what falls off the assembly lines.

America produces 60 thousand engineers per year and China graduates 250 thousand per year.

It is impossible for America to orchestrate the return of manufacturing because it does not have the highway, electrical or shipping infrastructure to do so.

American banks are unable to compete with China. That is why they bailed out and required to be too big to fail. If an American bank refuses to lend, then China will. American banks are forced to lend to consumers with maxed out credit cards and China is lending to a billion consumers with brand new credit cards.

America was bankrupt after the Vietnam War.

The futurists within government realized that there was no way in hell that the "Capitalist System" was going to be able to keep and honour all the promises made to the Working Class since the end of World War II. The promises to the working class was to prevent the rise of unionism and where these promises would be written in stone.

The economists knew well that by 2010, 10 thousand people would be lining up for Medicare each and every day. That 75 million Americans would be lining up for the 20 thousand dollar per year Social Security cheque that was promised to them.

Ronnie Ray-Gun and The Clowns introduced Free Trade just as Britain had done during it's financial collapse between 1870 and 1900.

Beginning in 1980, the Rich Folks began to abandon the North American continent and move their assets off shore. Britain did the exact same thing when the Rich Folks  moved their family dynasties into North America during the collapse of the British Empire.

The Capitalists set out to break every promise made to the Working Class since WWII.

Remember when the chips were down? And, when the economy was crashing through the huge recession of 1980-82-83 .... Where was Ronnie and Nancy to be found? In the arms of a Tarot Card reader! At the table with the astrologers and cosmic demons ....

I watched it all happen in real time.

It was Ronnie Ray-Gun and Oprah Winfrey who took to the airwaves and began to tell everyone that it did not take a village but rather a pillage instead.

The Sesame Street Generation who were raised up with the Sesame Street predominate value of "Sharing" were now being told that greed was good.

Oprah began telling everyone that being poor was our fault and talked endlessly about self-help groups and "Personal Responsibility" because we were all on our own ... That it was my fault that I did not save enough for retirement.

Robin Leach and Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous television series detailed how others were "Deserving" of success and did so on their own.

Since 1984, we have gone from Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous to Pawnshop and Storage Wars and Repo Games.

Prior to WWII, there were 6 empires in the world. Immediately after WWII 100 new sovereign nations came into existence.

If U.S. collapses as an empire in 2030, it would of lasted 85 years.

The Soviet Union was from 1917-1990, 53 years.

Germany controlled the European Continent for 6 years.

Japan, at its peak had the worlds biggest empire in terms of population because it controlled most of China. It only lasted 2 and a half years. 

The British empire from 1815 Waterloo through 1914 and the start of World war I lasted 99 years.

As China takes its place upon the world stage, all NATO members and Associates such as Israel are planning to leave the United Nations. All the recent gifts to Israel such as Jerusalem and the Golan Heights will stand as status quo in the aftermath.


----------



## bgc_fan

Michael De Adder: Trump reacting


----------



## Eder




----------



## andrewf

^ And so? A person we never heard of has opinions!

Eder, what are your thoughts on Trump retweeting a county commissioner who said 'The only good Democrat is a dead Democrat". He later mumbled that he didn't mean it literally. That's an insane thing to retweet, unless you literally are advocating violence.


----------



## Topo

What it Trump doing? (other than playing golf and tweeting). 

An empty suit would have done more to calm his country. Whenever he's had to step up to the plate, he's melted like a piece of butter.


----------



## calm

This is not just a protest about racism, it is a protest with unemployed people, and there are 40 million of them.
The Ruling Class know exactly what they are doing.
They have many more weapons for crowd control but have chosen not to use them at this time.








Sonic weapon - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Martial Law will need to be introduced. But it can not be done with the leader of the country (Trump) having less than 50% support.
Everything is waiting for the results of the November election.
The Ruling Class will/must ensure that the newly elected president has 60% support and where it can be said that he has a "Mandate" to govern.
This is going to be a very disturbing summer.
The Ruling Class will continue dishing out 1 trillion per month all during the summer to keep the pitch fork folks from overtaking the seat of national government.
But in January, the military is going to crush all dissent and use every weapon at their disposal and with fierce determination.


----------



## bgc_fan

andrewf said:


> ^ And so? A person we never heard of has opinions!
> 
> Eder, what are your thoughts on Trump retweeting a county commissioner who said 'The only good Democrat is a dead Democrat". He later mumbled that he didn't mean it literally. That's an insane thing to retweet, unless you literally are advocating violence.


You know how it is. If you can't argue the fact, i.e. Trump lies like a rug on twitter. Try to attack everyone who points out that he is lying.


----------



## Topo

Trump is playing the fiddle while America is burning. What a feckless leader!


----------



## Prairie Guy

Topo said:


> Trump is playing the fiddle while America is burning. What a feckless leader!


And all the Democrat leaders of the rioting states are doing absolutely nothing. But hey...let's blame Trump for failed Democrat cities and states rather than blame those who created the mess in the first place, years before Trump entered politics.


----------



## Topo

Prairie Guy said:


> And all the Democrat leaders of the rioting states are doing absolutely nothing. But hey...let's blame Trump for failed Democrat cities and states rather than blame those who created the mess in the first place, years before Trump entered politics.


Democrats are no angels either. They carry the mantle of social justice, etc then totally forget about it once they get elected.


----------



## bgc_fan

Thought Trump's view on leadership and riots was worth reminding people.


----------



## Topo

bgc_fan said:


> View attachment 20197
> 
> 
> Thought Trump's view on leadership and riots was worth reminding people.


"Weak [or non-existent] Leadership" sums up his presidency nicely.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Still no one has explained why alt left riots are Trump's fault. There were also alt left riots during Obama's time in office and no one blamed him.


----------



## Topo

Prairie Guy said:


> Still no one has explained why alt left riots are Trump's fault. There were also alt left riots during Obama's time in office and no one blamed him.


The riots are not his fault per se. But he can't seem to be able to take a stand for what's right. "Incompetent" describes him best.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> Still no one has explained why alt left riots are Trump's fault. There were also alt left riots during Obama's time in office and no one blamed him.


Trump did, or did you not see the twitter that he posted about the Ferguson riots?.


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> Trump did, or did you not see the twitter that he posted about the Ferguson riots?.


Yup...and I also heard Obama's bald face lies on TV.


----------



## calm

Leadership:

"For there shall arise false mesiahs,
and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible,
they shall deceive the very elect."
--Mathew 24--

“I think God calls all of us to fill different roles at different times, and I think that he wanted Donald Trump to become president and that’s why he’s there. And I think he has done a tremendous job in supporting a lot of the things that people of faith really care about.”
--Michelle Boorstein, Sarah Sanders tells Christian Broadcasting Network: God wanted Trump to be president, January 30, 2019--


https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/01/30/sarah-sanders-tells-christian-broadcasting-network-god-wanted-trump-be-president



Lyndon Johnson told Austrian ambassador Ernst Lemberter in 1966 that the Holy Ghost regularly visited him..."He comes to me about 2 o'clock in the morning," Johnson said, "--when I have to give word to the boys, and I get the word from God whether to bomb or not."
--Ronnie Dugger, The Politician: The Life and Times of Lyndon Johnson, May 1984--

President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals
In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.
Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"
Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."
October 06, 2005




__





BBC - Press Office - George Bush on Elusive Peace


Press Releases



www.bbc.co.uk





The First Lady dabbled in astrology as far back as 1967.
For the Reagan-Gorbachev Washington summit, she cast the charts of both men and determined that 2 p.m. on Dec. 8, 1987, was the most propitious moment for them to sign the intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty. At Nancy's behest, the entire summit was built around that hour.
--Donald T. Regan, For the Record: From Wall Street to Washington, May 1988--


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> Yup...and I also heard Obama's bald face lies on TV.


Care to list them with references?


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> Care to list them with references?


Readily available...look them up yourself.


----------



## sags

Antifa is there to protect the people from the alt right thugs.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> Readily available...look them up yourself.


In other words, you have no clue and just making things up.


----------



## sags

Trump and Pence have lost control of the country. The President of the United States is mocked in every corner of the country and around the world.

They must step down immediately. House Leader Nancy Pelosi will bring sanity and real leadership back to America.


----------



## andrewf

sags said:


> Antifa is there to protect the people from the alt right thugs.


Antifa are cowards that smash things for fun.


----------



## Eder

> BREAKING: The United States will be officially designating Antifa a domestic terrorist organization
> — Jack Posobiec (@JackPosobiec) May 31, 2020


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> In other words, you have no clue and just making things up.


If I post one if his lies you'd just ignore it and blame Trump for alt left violence that is heartedly supported by the Democrats.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> If I post one if his lies you'd just ignore it and blame Trump for alt left violence that is heartedly supported by the Democrats.


Nope, I'd be interested in the source and possibly debating it, but I get you have a fragile mindset and can't take opposing views.


----------



## calm

View attachment 20206


----------



## calm




----------



## calm

Trump wants his Presidential Library, so he is preparing to leave the presidency.
He is biding his time looking strong and resolute with ridiculous statments on Twitter.
Trump will be rehailitated after losing the November election just like George W. Bush was.
Presidential Libraries are only awarded to the rehabilitated.
The dislike of him must be really tense so that the next election brings in a new person with at least 60% support.
No doubt, Martial Law will need to be implemented as the economy continues to crumple.
When the newly elected president announces Martial Law, it will be said he has a mandate.
Martial Law can not be implemented by a president with only a minority of support.


----------



## jargey3000

but....bible....what about the bible?


----------



## sags

I think a Trump Presidential Library would be a big empty space.


----------



## andrewf

Trump is imposing martial law, and will have the military occupy cities with or without local agreement to impose curfews.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> Trump is imposing martial law, and will have the military occupy cities with or without local agreement to impose curfews.


Good, it needs to be done. The anarchists are responsible and the Democrats willfully let it happen. Innocent people will pay the price as always, but maybe this time they'll blame the right people.

Meanwhile Biden and his handlers bail terrorists out of jail so they can beat more innocent people.


----------



## Eder

Too bad this tragedy rather than a catalyst for change has instead devolved into retards stealing tv's from Target. I'm embarrassed to be a human this week.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Good, it needs to be done. The anarchists are responsible and the Democrats willfully let it happen. Innocent people will pay the price as always, but maybe this time they'll blame the right people.
> 
> Meanwhile Biden and his handlers bail terrorists out of jail so they can beat more innocent people.


So when the military are deployed to strip citizens of freedom on movement under threat of force, you think it is a good thing and not fascism?


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> So when the military are deployed to strip citizens of freedom on movement under threat of force, you think it is a good thing and not fascism?


It's to stop the anarchists, arsonists, and people who are beating innocent people. He has to do something...the Democrats are doing nothing. It has nothing to do with the peaceful protestors who are causing no harm.

But you know that, you're just trolling.


----------



## calm

Trump should just turn the lights out and pretend that nobody is home.
If this turmoil were in Iran, Trump would be Cheering on Arsonists and Dreaming of Regime Change"

The election will only be .... a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledummer. There is little difference between the candidates or political parties .... It will be an election of Regime Rotation between the Democrats and Republicans ....and which, in truth, provides only an illusion of a functioning democracy.

During elections, the candidates always brag about "Democracy" and always use the term "Your" government.

Within days, or immediately after an election, you'll not hear the words "Your" government .... instead the media begins to use the term "The Government" .... the voter/leader attachment disappears .... the mandate given by the citizens to the newly elected leader disappears.

"The Government" .... Something out of our "direct control" .... a detachment takes place .... something "Impersonal" .... A "Witness" and not a participant.

After the election, the term "Democracy" becomes the word "Leader" and is most often prefaced with the word "Strong" Leader.

When the "Left" wins an election, the media claims that they are not to be trusted .... A "Leftie" government must not be allowed to make any major changes without first getting tacit approval from the "Right". The Left is told to govern like the Rodney King trip .... "Duh" .... "Can't We All Just Get Along?" Bipartisanship.

The "Left" is always told that "Compromise" is necessary. It is described in the media as "Realistic" Compromise. And that was after getting tacit consent ("Permission") from the "Right".

When the "Right" wins an election, it is called "Morning In America" .... "Contract With America" .... Every "Right" leader is said to have a "Determined" personality. Very Committed to his ideals and ideas.

The Left is not allowed to be "Determined" .... only "Deferential" to the "Right".
A "Leftie" leader is said to be a "Good" Leader and a "Good" politician.
A "Rightie" leader is said to be a "Strong" Leader and "Determined".

Bipartisanland
There’s a constant theme among the Washington ruling class that bipartisanship is an end in itself, that cooperation should be Congress’s prerogative above all else. From a logical perspective, this is a horrible argument, but if that doesn’t convince you, all you have to do is look at the wonderful things the administration has done with the tacit approval of our Democratic Congress.
By Bill Richards
February 28, 2008


http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/#78147


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> It's to stop the anarchists, arsonists, and people who are beating innocent people. He has to do something...the Democrats are doing nothing. It has nothing to do with the peaceful protestors who are causing no harm.
> 
> But you know that, you're just trolling.


Giving up civil liberties is fine as long as you're scared enough? I don't see why there needs to be a curfew in order to arrest people.


----------



## Eder

The curfew is there because Target has only a finite quantity of tv's.


----------



## calm

I want to hear Biden promise to pack the Supreme Court or nothing will change.
The present Supreme Court Okayed and justified the inequality within the system.

Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937
The Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937(frequently called the "court-packing plan") was a legislative initiative proposed by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt to add more justices to the U.S. Supreme Court in order to obtain favorable rulings regarding New Deal legislation that the Court had ruled unconstitutional.
From Wikipedia








Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## andrewf

There is no point disclosing such a plan unless the Democrats take the Senate. If Biden wins, but the GOP holds the senate, any SCOTUS vacancies will be left vacant. The new convention is that the Senate only confirms nominations from Presidents of the same party as the majority.


----------



## calm

Oh! I am quite convinced that the newly elected government will win complete control.
The Ruling Class will arrange it if necessary.
Martial Law will need to be imposed as the economy continues to crumble.
Martial Law can not be implemented with a president wearing less than 60 percent support.


----------



## sags

To save taxpayer dollars President Biden should reduce the Supreme Court by 2 members. The last 2 appointed should be removed.


----------



## calm

Biden needs to explain how he is so different ......

It was his administration (and Eric Holder) who refused to charge the Financial Terrorists after the 2007 economic collapse, even after there was proven fraud and money laundering.

He needs to explain how 38 billion dollars ($10.41 million per day) was just donated to Israel but would claim that they could not help poor Americans because the cookie jar was empty. Americans only got 17 bucks per day for 3 months and Israel is going to get bailed out for 10 years.

"Israel + personal wealth"




__





israel personal wealth - Google Search






go.skimresources.com





US Senate Quietly Approves $38 Billion for Israel Amid Historic Economic Downturn
S.3176 was passed without being named, debated, or even discussed, even though it would set into law the largest such aid package in US history.
By Alison Weir
May 22, 2020








Senate Approves $38 Billion for Israel Amid Historic Economic Downturn


The Senate Foreign Relations Committee quietly passed a bill yesterday to give Israel a minimum of $38 billion over the next ten years.




www.mintpressnews.com


----------



## jargey3000




----------



## Eder

Not a great showing by our weakest group


----------



## calm

What happens if ,,,,,,

George Floyd is buried and the next day Trump and The Clowns decide to stand up and add another 10 or 15 trillion to the national debt and use the cash to do infrastructure projects. The single most cash ever entering the system since time began.

Trump can promise skids of "Sorry Money" to the poor protesters and their communities.

As it is right now. the Federal Reserve has promised to purchase every Toxic Asset in sight and to do so infinitum. (Forever) Printing another 10 trillion for poor protesters would just kind of complete the circle. (Suck and Blow at the same time.)

World banks around the world would welcome the money printing.

With just a quick blurp on a computer screen, the angry protesters gladly return to work and paying the bills.

An icon on the computer monitor and Trump wins the next election.

Everybody will sincerely promise to pay the interest on the money for the next 7 or 8 million years, just like the U.S. Capitalists recently did and everything is kool. In fact, Trump might even decide to print a bit more money just to pay the interest.

Everybody would celebrate the genius of Donnie Trump.

Don't worry about the American Credit Rating:

Especially these three "Privately Owned" Commercial Rating Corporations are gonna make a killing in fees. In the Capitaist System, the Free Market System, there are only three companies allowed to distribute government bonds. This fact alone would explain that Capitalism is for the very few. No competition allwed in this type of work. Hundreds of other companies have asked the SEC to be licenced and the SEC refused. A monopy. Check-Out who owns these three rating agencies.








Credit rating agency - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Rating Agencies are the heart of the U.S. Capitalist System. The very crux of the system itself.

The same people who are running Wall Street are partners, board members, and a vested interest in these 3 Rating Agencies. Not a penny moves in America without these three credit rating agencies getting a cut.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
--Frederic Bastiat, "The Law" (1850)--

DAVID KAY: [Iraq] was really spinning into a vortex of corruption from the very top in which people were lying to Saddam, lying to each other for money; the graft and how much you could get out of the system rather than how much you could produce was a dominant issue.
--Tom Brokaw interviews David Kay, U.S. Weapons Inspector, January 26, 2004--


MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos


----------



## andrewf

Eder said:


> Not a great showing by our weakest group
> View attachment 20209


And who's fault is this? I guess you blame millenials. And not the kleptocratic boomers that currently control the economy?


----------



## calm

andrewf said:


> And not the kleptocratic boomers that currently control the economy?


I sheepishly admit that I am one of those.
I think that my generation (born 1948) will go down in history as the most well educated, the most affluent in the history of mankind.

I protested and fought hard for my social programs ....... to be sure that I would not be left eating dog food for breakfast during my elderly years..

I led my first protest in 1970.

I was told and promised that if I was not greedy and did not join a union that I would enjoy my old age. That I should trust the Capitalists to keep the promise.

I was told not to be greedy and ask for extra money so that I might put it aside for my old age. The Capitalists said that I should leave my financial future in their trusted hands and I accepted a lower salary..

Your generation must do the same. Join a union or protest.

The Capitalists formed a union or an association called the Chamber of Commerce and yet they would refulse you the same rights and purpose.

You too need to form an association and lobby for your future needs.

Here is what I would start with .....

You gotta demand that the SuperClass not be allowed to create charity foundations rather than pay taxes.

You gotta demand that the SuperClass (Gates and Buffett) not be the people who decide who is poor and needy. Those decisions must be made by government.


----------



## Eder

nm not worth it


----------



## bgc_fan




----------



## Beaver101

^ Watch the Dump comes out with a gigantic twit of "FAKE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" commenting that the post is coming out from the biggest eff-faker running the Titanic.


----------



## bgc_fan

Not sure why he just doesn't make a deal with the protesters. He advised Michigan's Governor to do so when armed protesters occupied the State Capitol.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256202305680158720


----------



## calm

Trump and his bible:

The prayer Chaplain Downey offered before the Enola Gay took off from Tinian Island for Hiroshima

Almighty Father, who wilt hear the prayer of those that love thee, we pray thee to be with those who brave heights of thy heaven and who carry the battle to our enemies. Guard and protect them, we pray thee, as they fly the appointed rounds. May they, as well as we, know thy strength and power, and armed with thy might may they bring this war to a rapid end. We pray thee that the end of the war may come soon and once more we may know peace on earth. May the men who fly this night be kept safe in thy care, and may they be returned safely to us. We shall go forward trusting in thee knowing that we are in thy care now and for ever. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Introduced by Edward R. Murrow
August 06, 1945


----------



## Eder

Wheres the new riot?


----------



## bgc_fan

When people kept saying that Hillary would start wars, they voted Trump. I bet they didn't think Trump would start a war with America.
Trump mobilizes military in DC to quell protests as tear gas fired into crowds


----------



## sags

Trump did the perp walk to the church because he was upset the world was calling him "bunker boy".


----------



## andrewf

How many peaceful protesters were subjected to tear gas, etc. to clear his path to that photo op? Is that really a responsible use of force? For him to brandish a borrowed Bible and make 'serious don' faces?


----------



## Eder

I wonder how many police officers were murdered while the peaceful protesters were upgrading their tv's at Target...2 that I saw...both black.


----------



## andrewf

Eder: this is called a false equivalence. How precisely did tear-gasing peaceful protestors in DC so Trump could mug for the cameras do anything to protect the lives of police that were maimed or murdered by rioters? Are you saying that one forgives the other? More cops should get murdered so Trump can do more photo ops?


----------



## capricorn

bgc_fan said:


> When people kept saying that Hillary would start wars, they voted Trump. I bet they didn't think Trump would start a war with America.
> Trump mobilizes military in DC to quell protests as tear gas fired into crowds


It won't happen. Even though vested interests will keep inflaming passions. 

Police is under local govt control. But if you hear media it is all about shortcomings of Trump. So, people in these cities kept electing people who did nothing to sort out police irregularities but when things go bad, blame Trump. 
I wish Trump will keep his mouth shut, give platitudes and let local govt handle it. and provide help when asked. He is easy target now. By people who want him gone.


----------



## bgc_fan

capricorn said:


> Police is under local govt control. But if you hear media it is all about shortcomings of Trump. So, people in these cities kept electing people who did nothing to sort out police irregularities but when things go bad, blame Trump.
> I wish Trump will keep his mouth shut, give platitudes and let local govt handle it. and provide help when asked. He is easy target now. By people who want him gone.


Is Trump responsible for the situation? No. Is he helping to either inflame or at least, not de-escalating the situation? Yes. And that's the problem. He Twitts like a big strong man and hides in the basement, turning out the lights in the White House. Instead of meeting with community leaders to defuse the situation, he posts things like "When the looting starts, the shooting starts", or telling the state governors to "dominate the streets" and if they don't, he'll send in the military. Kind of hard to reach across the aisle to work a peaceful resolution when your immediate reaction is to use force.

Trump tells 'weak' governors to 'dominate' streets amid protests


----------



## capricorn

bgc_fan said:


> Is Trump responsible for the situation? No. Is he helping to either inflame or at least, not de-escalating the situation? Yes. And that's the problem. He Twitts like a big strong man and hides in the basement, turning out the lights in the White House. Instead of meeting with community leaders to defuse the situation, he posts things like "When the looting starts, the shooting starts", or telling the state governors to "dominate the streets" and if they don't, he'll send in the military. Kind of hard to reach across the aisle to work a peaceful resolution when your immediate reaction is to use force.
> 
> Trump tells 'weak' governors to 'dominate' streets amid protests


I agree. It is his own doing. He should keep quiet. The mayors who are responsible for the corrupt police departments should be at receiving end of these protests. But, the whole circus has become about Trump. It is almost as if this is a great deflection by the establishment and media and Trump has only obliged. 
In my view, major media should be hammering all these big city mayors about past and failure to control, instead of wall to wall coverage of Trump. But, they choose easy path.


----------



## bgc_fan

capricorn said:


> In my view, major media should be hammering all these big city mayors about past and failure to control, instead of wall to wall coverage of Trump. But, they choose easy path.


Sure, you can point to all the local government/leadership but this is a national problem. It's too far gone to be dealt with at a local level, given how widespread examples of police brutality are across the country. The fact that it seems to happen everywhere means that you can't say it's a local issue. When it is a national level problem, you look for the national leader for leadership, which is missing.

Think about the COVID situation in Canada. Health is a provincial matter, so does that mean the federal government should wash its hands of it and say, "Provinces, you're on your own"?


----------



## capricorn

bgc_fan said:


> Sure, you can point to all the local government/leadership but this is a national problem. It's too far gone to be dealt with at a local level, given how widespread examples of police brutality are across the country. The fact that it seems to happen everywhere means that you can't say it's a local issue. When it is a national level problem, you look for the national leader for leadership, which is missing.
> 
> Think about the COVID situation in Canada. Health is a provincial matter, so does that mean the federal government should wash its hands of it and say, "Provinces, you're on your own"?


It needs local solution. Police works in same city for long. Problems are systemic in each area. People in power locally can affect real change. 

I see no hope of national solution. The president and governors of populous states could not get along during covid for even simple stuff like open or closing dates, restrictions etc.. The desire to get into power has no chance of reconciliation between parties except on issues that enriches both. 
By contrast the PM and premiers in Canada were working from almost same script in covid-19 response.


----------



## calm

bgc_fan said:


> Sure, you can point to all the local government/leadership but this is a national problem. It's too far gone to be dealt with at a local level, given how widespread examples of police brutality are across the country.


The local politician running for district attorney needs political campaign funds.
Nobody working in any area of the law is tio be allowed to donate to the campaign,
The Union Contracts need to be totally transparent including addendums,
All police must live in the community where they work.
Police not allowed to work at any private functions.
Police designated as "Essential" so the union is unable to hold the city hostage during negotiations.


----------



## calm

Everybody is playing stupid.
Don't know how to solve the problem ....
It is just so complicated .......

No. ----- Pull out the cheque book! Somebody is gonna pay!! The longer they stall the more damage is done.
Do you have any idea just how many crack heads are zoomin' around looking for their next hit? There are a lot of people who used to be comfortabley high and dry.

There are 40 Million people unemployed.

There are 20 million people who just lost the Amerian Dream, At least 20 million are almost ready to kill. The hotter the weather, the hotter the temperment.

Somebody needs to stand up and announce that the Fed is gonna grab another 10 trillion dollars.

There is no choice.

You think that all that anger is just about race? If it is , well it is a race to the bottom.

It does not make any sense to me why they are not opening up the Federal Reserve.
As it appears to me, the Federal Reserve is thinking the price is too high at this time.

Maybe Binden picks a black VP and it is morning in America. 
Binden then makes a case for Federal Reserve intervention.
Congress is called back.
And ..... God Bless.


----------



## bgc_fan

capricorn said:


> It needs local solution. Police works in same city for long. Problems are systemic in each area. People in power locally can affect real change.
> 
> I see no hope of national solution. The president and governors of populous states could not get along during covid for even simple stuff like open or closing dates, restrictions etc.. The desire to get into power has no chance of reconciliation between parties except on issues that enriches both.
> By contrast the PM and premiers in Canada were working from almost same script in covid-19 response.


The thing is, it does require a national solution. However, that requires a strong leader which the USA does not currently have. The problems are systematic throughout all the jurisdictions. In other words, there needs to be a centralized direction coming from the federal level to be executed in a de-centralized fashion at a local level. Whether that means a federal oversight body to ensure that all jurisdictions have a similar level of training standards, or a system that is set up to audit at a state level, there can be something implemented. But, there is another issue, in some places, the chief law enforcement officer is a sheriff which is usually an elected position. You can guess what that means, it means that the majority dictates the rules and minorities will be disadvantaged.

As for working from the same script, it's evident that there is one reason why the COVID 19 response unity doesn't work in the States, and that's due to the current occupant of the White House.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> The local politician running for district attorney needs political campaign funds.
> Nobody working in any area of the law is tio be allowed to donate to the campaign,
> The Union Contracts need to be totally transparent including addendums,
> All police must live in the community where they work.
> Police not allowed to work at any private functions.
> Police designated as "Essential" so the union is unable to hold the city hostage during negotiations.


Unfortunately there is a lot of politics at play. I'm not sure if it is as evident here in Canada, but in the States, elections pretty much occupy their time. In theory it means that people can vote people out, but in reality, most positions run unopposed given that people don't even know what's going on.


----------



## calm

What amazes me ...... The protesters are so angry that they are willing to ignore the distancing rule and maybe put their lives at risk.... their family at risk ...... If they don't believe the virus science, then that alone tells us how much confidence and trust that the people have in their government.


----------



## sags

The Occupy movement was an early indicator of the future that is now the present.

The economic and social conditions in the US are the kind that lead to rebellion and revolution.

Class warfare never ends well for the wealthy and powerful.

Trump has brought the anger and frustration to the surface. He continually stirs the pot of discontent.


----------



## bgc_fan




----------



## bgc_fan

A leader afraid of his own people, following such leaders like Saddam Hussein, and Muammar Gaddafi.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1268560617566240768


----------



## Beaver101

I wonder why he even needs a vice-president, supposingly advising his master or is that just a puppet too? 

Also, where is Dr. A. Fauci these days? ...eerily silenced ... during this American plague.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Fauci?? How many more times does he have to be wrong before he loses credibility? Wear a mask...don't wear a mask, 2 million people will die...or maybe not, it's okay to hook up on Tinder...stay 6 feet apart.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Fauci?? How many more times does he have to be wrong before he loses credibility? Wear a mask...don't wear a mask, 2 million people will die...or maybe not, it's okay to hook up on Tinder...stay 6 feet apart.


By this standard, Trump lost credibility years ago.


----------



## Prairie Guy

andrewf said:


> By this standard, Trump lost credibility years ago.


You avoided the question.


----------



## andrewf

It was clearly rhetorical.

You mentioned 3 things Fauci was supposedly wrong about. Trump manages that many on a good day.


----------



## Beaver101

andrewf said:


> It was clearly rhetorical.
> 
> You mentioned 3 things Fauci was supposedly wrong about. *Trump manages that many on a good day.*


 .. actually many more, doing a great job MAGA!!!!


----------



## calm

Trump's America ..... Land Of The Puppet People:

Serial killers and politicians share traits
Note: The following commentary includes material obtained by the National Association of Chiefs of Police from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Behavioral Analysis Unit.
Psychopathy is a personality disorder manifested in people who use a mixture of charm, manipulation, intimidation, and occasionally violence to control others, in order to satisfy their own selfish needs. Although the concept of psychopathy has been known for centuries, the FBI leads the world in the research effort to develop a series of assessment tools, to evaluate the personality traits and behaviors attributable to psychopaths.
Interpersonal traits include glibness, superficial charm, a grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, and the manipulation of others. The affective traits include a lack of remorse and/or guilt, shallow affect, a lack of empathy, and failure to accept responsibility. The lifestyle behaviors include stimulation-seeking behavior, impulsivity, irresponsibility, parasitic orientation, and a lack of realistic life goals.
June 12, 2010


http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Serial-killers-and-politicians-share-traits



Leaders With No Conscience
By Rand Clifford
June 10, 2008


Leaders With No Conscience By Rand Clifford



“It did not occur to me, ever, that people were good or that a man was capable of change, or that the world could be a better place through one’s taking pleasure in a look or a feeling or a gesture, or receiving another person’s love or kindness. Nothing was affirmative, the term ‘generosity of spirit’ applied to nothing, was a cliché, it was some kind of bad joke. Sex is mathematics. Individuality is no longer an issue. What does intelligence signify? Define reason. Desire is meaningless. Intellect is not a cure. Justice is dead. Fear, recrimination, innocence, sympathy, guilt, waste, failure, and grief, were things, emotions that no one really felt anymore. Reflection is useless, the world is senseless. Evil is its only permanence. God is not alive. Love can’t be trusted. Surface, surface, surface was all that anyone found meaning in . . . this was civilization as I saw it, colossal and jagged . . .”
--Bateman from “American Psycho”--

Official Culture in America: A Natural State of Psychopathy?
By Laura Knight-Jadczyk
July 30, 2003


Official Culture - A Natural State of Psychopathy? by Laura Knight-Jadczyk



First in the World in the Deranged: Insanity in America
The study, led by a Harvard Medical School researcher, found evidence of mental problems in 26.4% of people in the United States, versus, for example, 8.2% of people in Italy.
By John Chuckman
June 03, 2004


http://www.doublestandards.org/chuckman1.html










Prevalence, Severity, and Unmet Need for Treatment of Mental Disorders in the World Health Organization World Mental Health Surveys


Context Little is known about the extent or severity of untreated mental disorders, especially in less-developed countries.Objective To estimate prevalence, severity, and treatment of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV) mental disorders in 14 countries...




jama.ama-assn.org





How An Aging Population And Our Growing Addiction To Pharmaceuticals May Be Poisoning Our Rivers
By Elizabeth Royte
Fall, 2006








Environment Scores a Big Win as Bottled Water Sales Fall


The campaign against bottled water companies is paying off.




www.alternet.org





Pharmaceuticals in Our Water Supply Are Causing Bizarre Mutations to Wildlife
By Greg Peterson
July/August 2007 Issue








The Story Behind 'Alice's Restaurant' - the 50-Year-Old Song that Is Forever Young


Its smirkily subversive message finds new adherents every year, while in its familiar glow longtime acquaintances grow young again.




www.alternet.org





So Young and So Many Pills
More than 25% of Kids and Teens in the U.S. Take Prescriptions on a Regular Basis
By Anna Wilde Mathews
December 28, 2010








Prescription Drug Use in Children and Teens


More than a quarter of children and teens are taking a prescription drug for a chronic ailment on a regular basis.




online.wsj.com





The Psychiatric Drugging of Children
Inventing Disorders
By Evelyn Pringle
April 21, 2010


http://www.counterpunch.org/pringle04212010.html



An American Phenomenon: The Widespread Psychiatric Drugging of Infants and Toddlers
By Evelyn Pringle
April 20, 2010


http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/146551


----------



## calm

Trump wants to Make America Grateful Again.


----------



## james4beach

andrewf said:


> It was clearly rhetorical.
> 
> You mentioned 3 things Fauci was supposedly wrong about. Trump manages that many on a good day.


You're arguing with a troll / Trump cult member.


----------



## Eder

nm...spamming links is stupid


----------



## Prairie Guy

james4beach said:


> You're arguing with a troll / Trump cult member.


So claims the guy who blames Trump for decades of Democrat failures. If anyone is trolling, it's you.


----------



## Beaver101

Donald Trump Tweets Conspiracy Theory About 75-Year-Old Buffalo Protester Shoved By Police: “He Fell Harder Than He Was Pushed”
Coming from the POSTUS' mouth:



> ... Trump on Tuesday tweeted a wild and, to say the least, unsubstantiated and unproven conspiracy theory about the man, Martin Gugino. “Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment. @OANN I watched, *he fell harder than was pushed*. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?”


 ... unbelieveable ... but then I'm surprised he didn't claim "Mr. Gugino attacked the police and felled on his own while doing so."


----------



## calm

Trump is just trying to get his Presidential Library built.
The military industrial complex is very highly paid, and the employees can easily afford the Library entrance fees in the future. (After he has been rehabilitated like they did with George W. Bush. Remember how everybody hated GW Bush?) . When Bush left office he was treated as a leper. You would of thought that Bush had a criminal record because he was shunned so wickedly. They stole all the W's off computer keyboards.

Trump is going to lose so bad that he wants to leave the world stage looking strong and resolute,

Martial Law can not be introduced by Trump because he only has 45 percent support.
So he is toast. The new president will make the Martial Law declaration with 60% support.

The Ruling Class can not allow Trump to impose Martial Law at this time. They know full well that it is necessary, but if Trump is allowed to declare Martial Law, the Ruling Class are too afraid to envision 60 percent of the country ignoring Martial Law.

It must be introduced by the new president because he has 60% support and a mandate to govern.

And, I remember 1968 and when the soldiers returned from Vietnam and some claimed to have been spit upon.
The Police is taking a huge hit right now.
It took a long time for the American soldier to gain respect within our culture,
I think they have decided to decertify police unions and place minimum wage "Social Workers" on the street. Ronnie Ray-Gun did the same with air traffic controllers.
I think the Social Workers will be backed up by the National Guard.
And the huge financial costs of pensions/medical for life disappear too.
The U.S. Capitalists are beginning to eat their own,


----------



## Eder

Beaver101 said:


> ... unbelieveable ... but then I'm surprised he didn't claim "Mr. Gugino attacked the police and felled on his own while doing so."


The guy was being an ***...of course the whole story won't be main stream as it wouldn't fit the anti police outrage. I guess we'll need to listen to one side till the trial.


----------



## calm

The Patriot Act introduced a Country of Suspects to A Country of Victims.
"Unconscious Victims" suffering from an "Unconscious Bias"

It was all unintentional.
Sorry ..... Sorry ..... Sorry.
Can we all just move on.


----------



## Beaver101

Eder said:


> The guy was being an ***...of course the whole story won't be main stream as it wouldn't fit the anti police outrage. I guess we'll need to listen to one side till the trial.


 ... which guy are you referring to as being an @xxZZZZ? 

No need for the whole "story" when you have a video clear as day showing one gung-ho cop "pushing" a non-cop - one lone protestor. Who then happened to land and hit his head on the cement ground with blood spilling. 

And here're a POSTUS with his theory spin saying the protestor "felled harder than he was pushed". Duh, first if the guy wasn't "pushed", how did he fall? Second, "fell harder" than he was "pushed" ... how does the POSTUS know how hard was the guy pushed. Was he there? Was the blood fake? Oh, here it comes next with the fodder twits "FAKE NEWS!!!!"


----------



## bgc_fan

If only the protesters were as non-destructive as the police.

I guess we have to hold regular citizens at a higher standard than police.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1270059322806923264
Wasn't the official police story that the 75 year old man tripped and fell on his own, before the video went public?


----------



## calm

Watch The Republican Geriatric Shuffle




__





Geriatric Shuffle - Google Search






www.google.com


----------



## Beaver101

Pols Tell Trump To Go Back To The Bunker After His Threat To ‘Take Back’ Seattle

Imagine the POSTUS being told to "go back to where he came from" from his fellow colleagues including Republicans. Must be feeling all fuzzy and warm there ...


----------



## Eder

Lol I guess these are the anarchists in Seattle...


----------



## andrewf

^ Smells like fake news. Some people are caricatures, but when you see them on twitter I tend to doubt their veracity.


----------



## Prairie Guy

I imagine the media coverage and outrage would be far different if a group of violent alt right people took over downtown Seattle.

Andrew is so brainwashed he thinks Antifa is non-violent and haven't taken over downtown Seattle. Andrew will believe anything he's told to believe.


----------



## andrewf

Prairie Guy said:


> Andrew is so brainwashed he thinks Antifa is non-violent and haven't taken over downtown Seattle. Andrew will believe anything he's told to believe.


Lies. I said previously that I don't support Antifa, I think they are cowards, and that they should be arrested as appropriate. Don't believe your fever dream hallucinations.

My point is that it would be just so for a sock-puppet account to pose as a lefty asking for birkenstocks and granola. I don't automatically believe what I see on twitter--most of it is lies.


----------



## calm

andrewf said:


> ^ Smells like fake news. Some people are caricatures, but when you see them on twitter I tend to doubt their veracity.


I never click or answer a pleading here in Mouse Land.

I have no enjoyment or feel good moments when I just put 5 bucks in the mail for someone in need.
Do you know that the chairperson of the American Red Cross gets about 2 million a year salary and other benefits.
I vist a community center and where the guy running the Salavation Army gets about 100 thousand.
I get my enjoyment standing outside some community center and putting it right into their hands.
I remember a small hurricane that hit our town and it was the Salavation Army who drove around town witrh big pots and pick up trucks,

The delivered hot soup and bread.


----------



## cainvest

calm said:


> Do you know that the chairperson of the American Red Cross gets about 2 million a year salary and other benefits.


How do you know this?


----------



## Eder

According to the 2016 Form 990 (The most recently published), current *President* and *CEO of* the *Red Cross* is paid $603,564 *annually* with an additional $18,392 in "other compensation from the organization and related organizations."Aug 3, 2018


----------



## calm

Eder said:


> According to the 2016 Form 990 (The most recently published), current *President* and *CEO of* the *Red Cross* is paid $603,564 *annually* with an additional $18,392 in "other compensation from the organization and related organizations."Aug 3, 2018


I guess I exagerated the amount .....
I checked my database for references:

Red Cross:








Red Cross


ProPublica is an independent, non-profit newsroom that produces investigative journalism in the public interest.




www.propublica.org





One charity has stayed above all this for 137 years. The Salvation Army is unique among all U.S. charities for many reasons. Let’s start at the top. Commissioner Todd Bassett receives a salary just $13,000 per year (plus housing) for managing this $2 Billion dollar organization. By comparison, Brian Gallagher, President of the United Way receives a $375,000 base salary (plus numerous expensive benefits) and the Red Cross President Marsha Evans receives $450,000 plus benefits.
2002








Conservative Truth - Obama's Fear of a Woman; Thoughts on a Liar and a Leader - Dr. Tom Barrett - 2008-09-01


In his coronation speech Obama proved that he could lie better than most politicians. The next day his worst fear was realized. John McCain picked a strong Conservative leader with executive experience as his running mate. The news so electrified Conservatives that it totally stole the thunder...



www.conservativetruth.org





Charities who paid execs more than $350,000 in 2009


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/six-figure-salaries-the-norm-at-top-charities/article1533823



Rose Perkins, the CEO of the Children's Cancer Fund, is paid $227,442 a year. Her ex-husband, James Reynolds Sr., is president and CEO of Cancer Fund of America. He gets paid $236,815. And James Reynolds Jr., president and CEO of the Breast Cancer Society, has a salary of $261,609.
June 13, 2013




__





CNN.com - Transcripts






transcripts.cnn.com


----------



## calm

The Ruling Class do not want this election to be about inequality.

They are priming the pump so that the issue is Law and Order and not that Poor People are demanding some cash.
Trump's success in business was because he spent half his life in a courtroom suing and bankrupting his opponents with legal fees.
Trump is quite familiar with law and order.


----------



## calm

I just watched Trump at West Point .....

It sounded to me as if he was telling the recruits to get ready ..... Get Phyched Out ....

Your God is going to demand your skills very soon. And he said America is exceptional.

Thank God Our Leaders Are Completely Different From Saddam Hussein
Thank God Our Leaders Are Completely Different From Osama Bin Laden

Megalomaniacal Psychopath - Esalen Institute - Human Potential Movement - You Are What You Think You Are





Human Potential Movement - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Christian zealotry to justify war
An assumption of divine agency - an association between what the government does and what God approves of.
By Howard Zinn
March 28, 2005


http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/258



In a speech to Latin American and Caribbean bishops at the end of a visit to Brazil, the Pope said the Church had not imposed itself on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
They had welcomed the arrival of European priests at the time of the conquest as they were "silently longing" for Christianity, he said.
--Raymond Colitt, Brazil's Indians offended by Pope comments, May 14, 2007--

It is said that a terrorist believes passionately in something called Paradise. The CIA man believes passionately in something called American Exceptionalism.








Salman Taseer - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Fighting in Panama: The President; A Transcript of Bush's Address on the Decision to Use Force in Panama
December 20, 1989
Last Friday, Noriega declared his military dictatorship to be in a state of war with the United States and publicly threatened the lives of Americans in Panama. The very next day, forces under his command... brutally beat a third American serviceman; and then brutally interrogated his wife, threatening her with sexual abuse. That was enough.
--President George H. W. Bush, December 20, 1989--
More than anything else, it was a rape threat by Pananamian soldiers to a U.S. naval officer's wife that triggered President Bush's decision to oust "Maximum Leader" Manuel Antonio Noriega... She was "sexually harassed" and threatened with rape, the incident that administration officials called the last straw.
--Washington Times, December 21, 2009--








Fighting in Panama: The President; A Transcript of Bush's Address on the Decision to Use Force in Panama (Published 1989)







www.nytimes.com





The Great Incubator Scam Of November 1990
One of the most sensational stories of supposed Iraqi atrocities was the report that Iraqi troops who marched into Kuwait in August 1990 had taken 312 babies out of incubators at a Kuwait City hospital and left them on the floor to die.
The incubator story was a complete hoax. It was cooked up and handled by Hill & Knowlton (H&K), then the largest PR firm in the world, hired by the reactionary oil kingdom of Kuwait.
Sobbing, she claimed that she witnessed first-hand the Iraqi soldiers yanking babies out of incubators at the al-Adden hospital.
Testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti, Niyirah al Sabah, who was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US. was Hill & Knowlton's coup de grace.
A fabricated "incubator baby" story. A story of how Iraqi soldiers had thrown premature babies out of incubators in the Al Adnan hospital in Kuwait city and "left them on the cold floor to die."
The mother of all lies
Senator Faircloth.








Lauch Faircloth - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## calm

Indispensible, Exceptionalism - Manifest Destiny

The imperialist ideology of Manifest Destiny, which is the notion that the U.S. has an obligation to expand in order to spread its form of democracy and freedom. The term “Manifest Destiny” was coined in the nineteenth century when this doctrine was invoked to justify the U.S.’s westward expansion and, of course, it is grounded in the same set of beliefs articulated in captivity narratives—that white and European peoples are superior to Native Americans and that white non-Natives have a moral obligation to impose their values on others, especially uncivilized, dark skinned others.
----
This rich and wonderful country--the progress of which at the present time, is the wonder of the old world--was until recently, inhabited exclusively by the lurking savage and wild beasts of prey. If the rapid progress of the "Great West" has surprised our people, what will those of other countries think of the "Far West," which was destined at an early day, to be the vast granary [grain producing region], as it is now the treasure chamber of our country?...
In the foreground, the central and principal figure, a beautiful and charming Female, is floating westward through the air bearing on her forehead the "Star of Empire...." On the right of the picture is a city, steamships, manufactories, schools and churches over which beams of light are streaming and filling the air--indicative of civilization. The general tone of the picture on the left declares darkness, waste and confusion. From the city proceed the three great continental lines of railway.... Next to these are the transportation wagons, overland stage, hunters, gold seekers, pony express, pioneer emigrant and the warrior dance of the "noble red man." Fleeing from "Progress"...are Indians, buffaloes, wild horses, bears, and other game, moving Westward, ever Westward, the Indians with their squaws, papooses, and "pony lodges," turn their despairing faces towards, as they flee the wondrous vision. The "Star" is too much for them.
...What home, from the miner's humble cabin to the stately marble mansion of the capitalist, should be without this Great National Picture, which illustrates in the most artistic manner all the gigantic results of American Brains and Hands! Who would not have such a beautiful token to remind them of the country's grandeur and enterprise which have caused the mighty wilderness to blossom like the rose!!!


http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/west/gastap.htm


American Progress By John Gast (1872) 








America's Asian Empire - LewRockwell


Once a rational person realizes that our government has lied or bent the truth — as all governments do — in order to look better or to present matters in a more flattering light, then one will begin to see everything differently, including current events. Naturally, the consideration of any...




www.lewrockwell.com





A woman in a white robe is the symbol of America’s “Manifest Destiny” in this classic painting.


----------



## Eder




----------



## sags

Medical experts say Trump had a stroke before he was rushed to Walter Reed Hospital months ago.

His unsteady gait, inability to drink from a glass with one hand, slurring of words, and apparent moments of electric shock, are symptoms of a stroke.

If Trump finds excuses not to attend Presidential debates, it will be more evidence of medical problems.


----------



## calm

I think the press is creating stories because of the uncertainty and unrest in the country today.

They can not bring in Martial Law with Trump as president. The public would not adhere to any Trump imposed curfews.
60% of the country would laugh trump right out of the park if he introduced Martial Law.
I think these stories are put out there by the media who are preparing the ground to remove trump if the civil unrest got out of hand.
Trump knows that the stage is all set for him to lose and lose big in November.
Trump is just trying not to look too much like the loser he is.
Trump is trying to look as if in control while holding the flags of law and order.
He has all the powers of the presidency, but none of the respect that tags along with Presidential powers.


----------



## bgc_fan

sags said:


> Medical experts say Trump had a stroke before he was rushed to Walter Reed Hospital months ago.
> 
> His unsteady gait, inability to drink from a glass with one hand, slurring of words, and apparent moments of electric shock, are symptoms of a stroke.
> 
> If Trump finds excuses not to attend Presidential debates, it will be more evidence of medical problems.


While I hate these type of speculative posts, I figure that it's fair game considering how many "news stories" were out there talking about Hillary Clinton's health.


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> A woman in a white robe is the symbol of America’s “Manifest Destiny” in this classic painting.


White means what ever the left decides will suit their agenda. When Hillary wore white is was a symbol of female power. When Melania wore white the very same people called it a symbol of racism.


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> While I hate these type of speculative posts, I figure that it's fair game considering how many "news stories" were out there talking about Hillary Clinton's health.


We all know Hillary is the picture of health. We've all seen the footage of her being tossed into the special medically equipped van like a slab of beef, or the fact that she can't navigate stairs without help. But, most of her poor health is probably just the years of alcoholism catching up.

Biden suffers from dementia, inappropriately touches young girls, has credible sexual assault charges against him and he's the very best the Democrats have to offer. The Democrats want to extend the lockdown until after the election so Biden doesn't have to appear on camera because he now can't even read a short 30-second prepared speech without faltering.


----------



## andrewf

Trump had a stroke and snorts Adderall. He's on a combination of uppers and downers. That's why he often is seen slurring his speech and speaking erratically.


----------



## Beaver101

The American election can't come soon enough so that Mr. CEO Trump can resume to his reality duties of CEOing his own firms. But not before throwing off the Mother-of-all-RANTs on Twitter and being pried off the lawns of the WH.


----------



## Eder

We may get rid of him, unfortunately Biden gets close to calling his base deplorable more & more. We know what happens then. Dems just need to stfu and they win but I doubt that will be their strategy.


----------



## calm

I am sort of into conspiracy .....
I think that the Supreme Court has deliberately made the water cooler talk until the next election.
They do not want this election being fought along the Bernie Sanders Socialist Agenda.
And that is exactly what is walking and parading down streets in all of North America.
These protests are "Occupy Wall Street" (Bernie Sanders) Idealists.
The Ruling Class needed a reason to ignore the protester demands.
The Supreme Court has always done some controversial "Cultural" issue to the forefront and it being near 4 months til elections.
The Democrats can chant Racism and the Republicans can rant on about queers and transgenders.
There is no center ground to talk about Wealth Inequality.
The Supreme Court decision today created this scenario.
An election about Cultural Values rather than The Values of a Conscience.


----------



## cainvest

calm said:


> I am sort of into conspiracy .....


Just "sort of into conspiracy" huh ...


----------



## cainvest

oh oh ...
_
Separately, the Food and Drug Administration appeared to end a polarizing debate over hydroxychloroquine by yanking its emergency use designation. The drug was once touted as a potential “game changer” by President Donald Trump in the fight against COVID-19, but has since been linked to deadly side effects. 

fda-puts-nail-in-coffin-of-hydroxychloroquine-debate_


----------



## calm

Make no Mistake. Trump is not lying.

He is going to bring the economy back and quicky.

He owns the printing press.
Trump is already talking about printing another trillion dollars next week.

Trump is going to print our way to happiness.
Trump is going to print all the glory that God wants us to enjoy.
Hallelujah


----------



## sags

Trump is crashing in the polls. Kind of sad though. It will be like the circus without a clown.


----------



## calm

Trump said that some people don't even know that they want law and order ......

Silently Longing For Law and Order .....

The pope said that too .......

In a speech to Latin American and Caribbean bishops at the end of a visit to Brazil, the Pope said the Church had not imposed itself on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
They had welcomed the arrival of European priests at the time of the conquest as they were "silently longing" for Christianity, he said.
--Raymond Colitt, Brazil's Indians offended by Pope comments, May 14, 2007--


----------



## Beaver101

The news keep getting better ...

Mary Trump, Donald Trump's niece, dishes on 'toxic family,' 'dark history' in book coming in July


----------



## calm

G.O.P.'s Southern strategy
_"You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigg, nigg, nigg.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigg”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigg, nigg.”" _
--Lee Atwater, interviewed By Alexander Lamis, explaining the evolution of the G.O.P.'s Southern strategy, 1981--









Lee Atwater - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Exclusive: Lee Atwater’s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy


The 42 minute recording, acquired by James Carter IV, confirms Atwater’s incendiary remarks and places them in context.




www.thenation.com












Opinion | Impossible, Ridiculous, Repugnant (Published 2005)


Bob Herbert Op-Ed column says he is not surprised to hear Republican operative Bill Bennett claim that crime rate would be reduced by aborting every black baby in country; says he has come to expect racial effrontery from big shots in Republican Party; speaks of party's relentless appeal to...




query.nytimes.com


----------



## bgc_fan

Well, I don't think Bolton's book doesn't show anything that we didn't already know:
Ten biggest claims in John Bolton's book

In case you're wondering, China would love Trump to get re-elected. Having the USA step away from the international stage means that there's a power vacuum that China is ready to fill. Who would Beijing prefer wins in November?


----------



## calm

Impeachment had Trump sue Bolton so he could not testify.
If trump does not sue Bolton with the publication of his book, then Trump could not sue to keep Bolton from appearing before a committee in congress to explain the book.
In the larger picture, Trump is suing Bolton to prevent Bolton from appearing before congress this time around.


----------



## calm

I understand that the justice department guy who Attorney General Barr just fired is in charge of Jeffrey Epstein Case.








Jeffrey Epstein - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## calm

Watching Trump and his followers parade around without a Mask feels or looks like Trump no longer has the will to live.
Not wearing a mask is really an attempted suicide with a dull blade.

Has Trump been told that this is the collapse of empire?

Jim Jones
.... an American preacher and faith healer turned cult leader who conspired with his inner circle to direct a mass murder-suicide of his followers in his jungle commune at Jonestown, Guyana.
From Wikipedia








Jim Jones - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Eder

You are in a minority...most people care litte about wearing a mask but media likes to point out Trump or Pence without one. Out of the hundreds of people I have seen today I have seen 2 masks...both were employees in a sandwich restaurant. It is pretty lol we put masks in the same importance as distancing & testing. But continue to bash people you don't know & will never meet.


----------



## calm

I usually see people wearing a mask in a store that has a bit of a crowd.
So long as people not wearing a mask can maintain a "comfortable" distance, I can live with that.
I don't wear my mask when I am walking on the sidewalk. I might see 2 people during my walk.
In a store, I wear a mask to show respect and support for those people working in the store.
I find that I seem to beg for more air when I have the mask on. Very uncomfortable for me.


----------



## Topo

How many people have to be sacrificed for Trump to get re-elected?


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## calm

Topo said:


> How many people have to be sacrificed for Trump to get re-elected?


A majority of them are religious freaks too,

He’s the Chosen One to Run America”: Inside the Cult of Trump, His Rallies Are Church and He Is the Gospel
Trump’s rallies—a bizarre mishmash of numerology, tweetology, and white supremacy—are the rituals by which he stamps his name on the American dream. As he prepares to resume them for the first time in months, his followers are ready to receive.
By Jeff Sharlet 
June 18, 2020








“He’s the Chosen One to Run America”: Inside the Cult of Trump, His Rallies Are Church and He Is the Gospel


Trump’s rallies—a bizarre mishmash of numerology, tweetology, and white supremacy—are the rituals by which he stamps his name on the American dream. As he prepares to resume them for the first time in months, his followers are ready to receive.




www.vanityfair.com


----------



## Topo

calm said:


> A majority of them are religious freaks too,
> 
> He’s the Chosen One to Run America”: Inside the Cult of Trump, His Rallies Are Church and He Is the Gospel
> Trump’s rallies—a bizarre mishmash of numerology, tweetology, and white supremacy—are the rituals by which he stamps his name on the American dream. As he prepares to resume them for the first time in months, his followers are ready to receive.
> By Jeff Sharlet
> June 18, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “He’s the Chosen One to Run America”: Inside the Cult of Trump, His Rallies Are Church and He Is the Gospel
> 
> 
> Trump’s rallies—a bizarre mishmash of numerology, tweetology, and white supremacy—are the rituals by which he stamps his name on the American dream. As he prepares to resume them for the first time in months, his followers are ready to receive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vanityfair.com


Well, I hope they survive this one.


----------



## calm

I thought the Trump Campaign event was entertaining.
The Rabid Right attacking the Radical Left.


----------



## sags

The Trump rally was dwarfed by the protests going on in other parks in Tulsa. He made a bad decision to hold the rally there on this day.


----------



## Topo

Looks like Trump got pranked in Tulsa:









Trump trolled by TikTok in Tulsa


TikTok, in the days leading up to Trump's Saturday rally, encouraged people to register online for the free event and not show up.




www.cnn.com


----------



## andrewf

6 people organizing the Tulsa rally were diagnosed with COVID-19. What could go wrong?

It will be interesting to see how many cases arise from this event. I guess TikTok was doing a public service by limiting the crowding in the arena .


----------



## Longtimeago

I heard about the Tik Tokers registering for attendance numerous times and also about a woman in Idaho or Iowa or another I state, who started the same thing but I do not think it could have had any actual effect on how many people attended. 

Trump said, '1 million registered to attend' and I also heard on the news relating to Tik Tok that there were actually around 800,000 registrations to attend with many of them being these bogus registrations. But there was no limit on registrations, so it isn't as if there were only X number of tickets available and they were all gone. Those who wanted to actually register and attend would have had no problem doing so as far as I can tell.

The simple fact is, nowhere near as many wanted to attend as they expected would. The Tik Tok pranking is amusing but irrelevant.


----------



## calm

Tom Petty’s family is none too happy that President Donald Trump played “I Won’t Back Down” at his rally in Tulsa on Saturday and wants to make sure it never happens again. The family said it has sent a formal “cease and desist notice to the Trump campaign” so the song doesn’t get used in the same manner again. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1274527971513004033


----------



## Topo

DJT leaving the Tulsa rally after an attendance of just 6200:


----------



## calm

As a politician, I kind of admire the guy.
He is 2 years older than me and he was able to "Perform" for 2 solid hours.
His act is Populism.
As a performer, he perfomed well. It was a command performance.

No big deal that only 6 or 10 thousand were at the rally, It is TV-Land that counts.
I think that this performance enjoyed huge ratings for the first hour.
He won big with 2 hours of free broadcast media content.


----------



## like_to_retire

I am continually amazed by the resilience of Donald Trump. 

No one has been beaten on and pronounced dead more times than this President. He has been attacked by the media, by the political opposition, by the law, by the lawyers, and even by the losers on forums such as CMF, and it rolls off his back.

He's accomplished quite a bit in his presidency and I expect he'll win the next round and go on to even greater accomplishments.

ltr


----------



## calm

Ronnie Ray-Gun was said to be Teflon President.
Both Trump and Ronnie were trained actors.
Clowns on stage.
Court Jesters.
Like that tune by Roger Waters "Amused To Death"


----------



## Prairie Guy

Trump can pull off a 2 hour event if he wants and Biden can't even handle 30 seconds with help from a teleprompter. How will Biden's handlers hide his mental decline when he eventually has to appear in public?


----------



## calm

Biden can act just like trump but they portray different personalities or delivery systems.

Both are staging a character play.

Biden is quite able to stand on a stage and talk endlessly about the "Steady Ship Of State" while looking presidential-like.

Trump's message is supposedly "Revolution" so Trump has to act like a Revolutionary character.

Both are very good "Ancient" or aging actors on the world stage.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Longtimeago said:


> I heard about the Tik Tokers registering for attendance numerous times and also about a woman in Idaho or Iowa or another I state, who started the same thing but I do not think it could have had any actual effect on how many people attended.
> 
> Trump said, '1 million registered to attend' and I also heard on the news relating to Tik Tok that there were actually around 800,000 registrations to attend with many of them being these bogus registrations. But there was no limit on registrations, so it isn't as if there were only X number of tickets available and they were all gone. Those who wanted to actually register and attend would have had no problem doing so as far as I can tell.
> 
> The simple fact is, nowhere near as many wanted to attend as they expected would. The Tik Tok pranking is amusing but irrelevant.


It shows what the left would do if mail in voting became a reality....millions of fake votes.


----------



## calm

Every U.S. Capitalist or both political parties would prefer that nobody voted.
They both gerrymander and discourage voter turnout

Are we to believe that after 250 years America could not invent and operate a secure and easily accessible voting system?

Make it a holiday and give every voter a 20 million dollar lottery ticket.

The Ruling Class are already talking about defunding the Post Office while talking about mail-in ballots.
Not to worry ..... the Ruling Class will make sure that the post office is unable to handle that amount of mail.

The Ruling Class would prefer that only first responders and the military industrial complex vote.

The Ruling Class definitely do not want Poor People votes to gain any form of success.

The Ruling Class are quite content with a 50 percent voter turnout and no opportunities for 3rd party candidates.

Remember ..... Slaveowners wrote the rules and the rules were written to support slaveowners. Such are the facts and the history of U.S. Capitalism.


----------



## sags

Trump just rambles on incoherently. We have people walking around downtown who do that all day every day.


----------



## Money172375

The fact that these two were chosen as candidates says a lot about the state of the US.
are ”better” and younger candidates not available? My father and FIL both take multiple naps a day.....I’m not sure how much governing Trump or Biden does/will do. I hate to say it, but Advanced age is a factor for me. Aren’t these guys woken up in the middle of the night often? Don’t they have 18 hour days?

Didn’t Ronnie have someone pulling the strings in the 2nd term? With Trump, I don’t think there’s a wizard behind the drapes.

boggles my mind that the Dems choose Biden.

what would a 3rd party candidate do to this race?


----------



## sags

The Democrats are fortunate that Trump is disintegrating on his own.


----------



## jargey3000

who's the "they" Trump is referring to the time.?
know what I mean?
as in "they say it's the biggest ( or insert any other "-est" word) ....etc"
or , "they say the've never seen anything like it"
or, "they say I'm doing s great job"
etc etc etc
who are "they"?


----------



## Beaver101

sags said:


> The Democrats are fortunate that Trump is disintegrating on his own.


 ...


----------



## Beaver101

jargey3000 said:


> who's the "they" Trump is referring to the time.?
> know what I mean?
> as in "they say it's the biggest ( or insert any other "-est" word) ....etc"
> or , "they say the've never seen anything like it"
> or, "they say I'm doing s great job"
> etc etc etc
> who are "they"?


 ... everyone else except "him, himself, he"


----------



## calm

Comedian-In-Chief


https://dissidentvoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/image0-3-791x1024.jpeg


----------



## bgc_fan

I guess this counts as the humour section.
'Walk Of Shame': Deflated Trump's Lonely Helicopter Walk Becomes Biting New Meme


----------



## calm

When I listen to or watch Trump in TV-Land, it seems Trump has kind of just walked away from any attempt to control this virus. No direct involvement.

The economic damage is huge. Trump is acting like some Jesus Freak and thinking "God Will Provide" or that "It Is In God's Hands".

I would think that if Trump really thought that he could rescue the economy, he would be working overtime. Ivanka Trump would be selling designer face masks.

But, I think he knows differently and is just attempting to look Presidential during these times of economic collapse. The most powerful man in the universe is totally weak when it comes to tackling this virus. The house is on fire and Trump is arguing with a prosecutor in New York.

Like Trump, I too see the economic collapse of the American Empire and all I can do is sit on the sidelines and pray.


----------



## sags

Trump has orange makeup smeared all over the collar of his shirt. He wears more pancake makeup than Bozo the Clown..


----------



## andrewf

I hope people don't make the same mistake as Hillary and count Trump out. It's not over until the votes are cast. He can still win...


----------



## calm

When commenting earlier just after the Trump performance, I could not remember exactly who Trump reminded me of.

Martin Luther King was long remembered for the "I Have A Dream" speech and Donald Trump for the "I Have A Scheme" speech.

So, I searched my database and found the guy's name from something I had read about10 years ago.

Charles Edward Coughlin








Charles Coughlin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





His "Performance: is just like this guy in the early 1930's.

Drive The Money-Changers From The Temple
(YouTube Video)


----------



## bgc_fan

andrewf said:


> I hope people don't make the same mistake as Hillary and count Trump out. It's not over until the votes are cast. He can still win...


True. OTOH Hillary was one of the most hated candidate in recent history, but still got more overall votes. Biden also plays better with the blue collar workers in key states so he should have a better showing.


----------



## Prairie Guy

How sad and pathetic is it to be a Democrat? All of their cities are burning in anarchy and the very best they can find to go against Trump is child groping Joe Biden.


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> True. OTOH Hillary was one of the most hated candidate in recent history, but still got more overall votes. Biden also plays better with the blue collar workers in key states so he should have a better showing.


It's not about overall votes, but I guess the loser can claim that "victory"...you know, just like losing the football game and saying you got more touchdowns but you only lost because the other team scored more field goals.


----------



## calm

I am reading the NYT story about how Trump and Justice Department interfiered in prosecutions.
The Ruling Class are setting Trump on fire ... burning him at the stake.
Every day the media is going to throw more kerosene onto the flames.
Trump always planned to stack his campaign stage with Police and Soldiers.
I don't think that any Law and Order person is wanting to stand on stage and praise Trump today.
Trump polling numbers are really going to cave.
The newly elected president will now earn at least a 60% majority.

Biden is going to follow the same foreign policy as Trump.

Biden is going to walk the corporate world while claiming to feel the pain of Poor People like Bill Clinton did.

There was never a weapon of war that Biden did not support?
Biden voted for all the Middle East wars and mayhem,

When the the banking collapse happened in 2007-2008 Biden and Obama did not criminally charge anybody with fraud.

Biden will introduce Martial Law in January next year,


----------



## calm

.
I think this will be Biden's VP choice:

Valdez Venita Demings
From Wikipedia








Val Demings - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## calm

This latest accusation about Trump and the Russian bribes to kill American soldiers is a trip down memory lane for me.

QUESTION: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979.

But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

It was a strategy of provocation, for the gambit had the effect of "drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap.. . .The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the U.S.S.R. its Vietnam War."

QUESTION: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
--Zbigniew Brzezinski, The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan, Interview Le Nouvel Observateur, January 15, 1998--

Zbigniew Brzezinski, visited the Afghanistan border in the late 1970s and delivered this battle cry to the assembled Afghan fighters which later went onto to defeat the Soviet Union:
“We now of the deep belief in God, that we are confident their struggle will precede…your cause is right and God is on your side.”
(YouTube Video)





[The] major world powers, new and old, also face a novel reality: while the lethality of their military might is greater than ever, their capacity to impose control over the politically awakened masses of the world is at a historic low. To put it bluntly: in earlier times, it was easier to control one million people than to physically kill one million people; today, it is infinitely easier to kill one million people than to control one million people."[/I]
--The Global Political Awakening, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Former U.S. National Security Advisor, Co-Founder of the Trilateral Commission, Member, Board of Trustees, Center for Strategic and International Studies, New York Times, December 16, 2008--








Opinion | The global political awakening (Published 2008)







www.nytimes.com





"The Euro-Atlantic governments proclaim their "democracy" as proof of their absolute right to intervene in the affairs of the rest of the world. On the basis of the fallacy that "human rights are necessary for peace", they proclaim their right to make war."
--Diana Johnstone, Encircling Russia, Targeting China, NATO's True Role in US Grand Strategy, November 18, 2010--


http://www.counterpunch.org/johnstone11182010.html



“No society will tolerate it if they knew that they... were responsible for violently killing 12 to 15 million people since WW II and causing the death of hundreds of millions more as their economies were destroyed or those countries were denied the right to restructure to care for their people. Unknown as it is, and recognizing that this has been standard practice throughout colonialism, that is the record of the Western imperial centers of capital from 1945 to 1990.”
--J. W. Smith, Economic Democracy: The Political Struggle of the 21st Century (Arizona: Institute for Economic Democracy, 2003)--





The Hidden Holocaust--Our Civilizational Crisis Part 1: The Holocaust in History


Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed investigates the interconnections of climate change, peak oil, food crisis, economic crisis, terrorism and the police state




nafeez.blogspot.com


----------



## Topo

Interesting thing is that both Taliban and Al-Qaeda were born (with the help of western powers) out of the resistance movement to the Soviet invasion. The Afghan people wanted to try a socialist government after they toppled their monarchy. They have had to endure years of war and destruction ever since. The Soviets left long ago, Nato will leave soon; and the Afghan struggle with fanatic jihadis will go on for decades to come....


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> I am reading the NYT story about how Trump and Justice Department interfiered in prosecutions.


Even people who work at the NYT don't believe their stories.


----------



## calm

Exclusive: Hundreds of George W. Bush administration officials to back Biden, group says
By Tim Reid
July 01, 2020








Exclusive: Hundreds of George W. Bush administration officials to back Biden, group says


Hundreds of officials who worked for former Republican President George W. Bush are set to endorse Democratic White House hopeful Joe Biden, people involved in the effort said, the latest Republican-led group coming out to oppose the re-election of Donald Trump.




www.reuters.com




----
Erin Perrine, a Trump campaign spokeswoman, said of 43 Alumni for Biden: “This is the swamp – yet again – trying to take down the duly elected President of the United States.”
Other Republican groups opposing his re-election include the Lincoln Project, co-founded by George Conway, husband of Trump counselor Kellyanne Conway.
Trump has expressed contempt for Republican and conservative figures who oppose him, saying on Twitter that “Never Trumper” Republicans are “human scum.”


----------



## Beaver101

calm said:


> ...
> *Trump has expressed contempt for Republican and conservative figures who oppose him*, saying on Twitter that “Never Trumper” Republicans are “human scum.”


 ... so which party does the Dump belong to and running for in the upcoming election? His own ... like his own reality MAGA fantasy land? It's time for him to go-back to where he came from.


----------



## calm

The media is branding Biden as the "The Lesser Evil".
350 million Americans and they got a presidential election with this as the major theme.
Very little talk about what he hopes to tackle with policies. All talk about personality.

Biden and Obama had a majority in both the congress and the senate in 2008 and did zilch with that power.

Biden and Obama always said that they needed to get permission from the Republicans first. And in 2 years they became irrelevant when they lost control of the Senate.

Nothing is going to change. But America will congratulate themselves for not committing suicide and voting for the Lesser Evil,


----------



## calm

Trump should say that he deliberately ignored the warnings about Russia killing U.S. Troops.
Trump could claim that he sped up the evacuation of soldiers from Afghanistan and planned to deal with Putin when all troops had left Afghanistan like Trump had promised to do.
If Trump had of confronted Putin with the information, before pulling the troops out as planned, it may of cost more U.S. lives.


----------



## Eder

from the WSJ today...
*Hydroxychloroquine Given Early Helped Coronavirus Patients, Study Finds *

I guess the WHO blew it again...not surprised.

Oh....and...The study, published in the International Society of Infectious Disease, found patients did not suffer heart-related side effects from the drug. 
Who knew lol.


----------



## Beaver101

^ I'm surprised there're no wits news indicating about loading the H-drug up into "Our Stockpile".


----------



## calm

I am watching Trump. Wow .... what a performer.
When he talks about the "Radical Left", he is talking about Poor People.
The Ruling Class are very worried about U.S. Capitalism being strung up on some lamp post.
There are 50 million unemployed.
The Ruling Class know that Poor People want to tear down the Capitalist System itself and not simply knock over a guy on a horse.
Trump is going to deploy teams of Federal troops all over the country under the prentense of protecting monumants and statues,
He wants the Poor People to know that the Rich Folks have Christian and Godly Values while the cops are beating the heads of "Bad and Evil" Poor People.


----------



## bgc_fan

A new ad to celebrate the glory of Trump.


----------



## calm

If It Were So Urgent, Why Didn’t Haspel Demand an Oval Office Meeting?

If this were such an urgent matter that Trump had ignored for more than three months, why hadn’t CIA Director Gina Haspel demanded, in all that time, an immediate Oval Office meeting with Trump to urge him to act? After all, isn’t the CIA’s job supposed to be to protect Americans?
By Joe Lauria.
July 03, 2020








BOUNTYGATE: Why Didn't Haspel Demand an Oval Office Meeting?


The safety of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan does not appear to be the motive in intelligence agency leaks to the media about the alleged Russian “bounties,” says Joe Lauria. By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News The Los Angeles Times reported Thursday night that a complete withdrawal of U.S. tr




consortiumnews.com


----------



## calm

Trump Said:

"We will never allow an angry mob to tear down our statues, erase our history, indoctrinate our children, or trample on our freedoms."








Donald Trump "Salute to America" Speech Transcript


Donald Trump held a "Salute to America" event at the White House on July 4, 2020. Read the full transcript of his speech here.




www.rev.com





He could of went on to describe how "We" are going to hire "Officers" to beat Poor People senseless. (and Thankyou For Your Service.)


----------



## Eder

Global tv is shocked with the crowd Mr T attracted to his Washington outdoor speech and state that Covid will spike worse due to this...of course no mention of looters the previous weeks that is causing the current spike....man we need to defund JT's media.


----------



## :) lonewolf

Trump is the best president we have ever witnessed. He is smart enough to do his own thinking resulting in not falling for the scamdemic/plandemic.


----------



## calm

:) lonewolf said:


> Trump is the best president we have ever witnessed.


I have no right to ask you this question, but I just gotta ask ...... Are you a devout religious person?
(I am not into religion at all.)


----------



## :) lonewolf

Not @ all the standard I use for judging my esteem is mans biological distinguishable trait reason. Since esteem is a value judgement a standard must be used. There can only be one best of anything using mans biological distinguishable trait is the only rational standard. Using how much money, how many pretty girls, how many cars you have compared to someone else will cause your confidence to yo yo since someone will always have more then you. I can always choose to be committed to reason. Few do & will rather take comfort in the herd. 

Trump is going against the herd. It takes a man of strong courage to do so when the media 24/7 attacks him. Those that go against the herd I like to hear what they say since it shows they have been thinking. Then you must do your own thinking weather true or false. Since words are empty containers we put meaning into we often put different meaning into words then truth can be lost.



Esteem is the most important value judgement you can make since it effects all your other value judgements. Esteem is a basic omnipresent psychological need it entails that one is both capable, worthy of living & committed to that which is good & true


Reason judging truth from falsehood by information provided by the senses is the antitheses of faith the blind acceptance of ideas without any sensory evidence. I try to always have a strong commitment to reason never faith.

The bible does have some good info. Gan said it was the best astrology book ever written.


----------



## Beaver101

calm said:


> I have no right to ask you this question, but I just gotta ask ...... Are you a devout religious person?
> (I am not into religion at all.)


 ... you should have asked him if he's in love with that man going against the herd. Sounds like it. 💓 💓 💓 💓


----------



## kcowan

:) lonewolf said:


> Not @ all the standard I use for judging my esteem is mans biological distinguishable trait reason. Since esteem is a value judgement a standard must be used. There can only be one best of anything using mans biological distinguishable trait is the only rational standard. Using how much money, how many pretty girls, how many cars you have compared to someone else will cause your confidence to yo yo since someone will always have more then you. I can always choose to be committed to reason. Few do & will rather take comfort in the herd.
> 
> Trump is going against the herd. It takes a man of strong courage to do so when the media 24/7 attacks him. Those that go against the herd I like to hear what they say since it shows they have been thinking. Then you must do your own thinking weather true or false. Since words are empty containers we put meaning into we often put different meaning into words then truth can be lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Esteem is the most important value judgement you can make since it effects all your other value judgements. Esteem is a basic omnipresent psychological need it entails that one is both capable, worthy of living & committed to that which is good & true
> 
> 
> Reason judging truth from falsehood by information provided by the senses is the antitheses of faith the blind acceptance of ideas without any sensory evidence. I try to always have a strong commitment to reason never faith.
> 
> The bible does have some good info. Gan said it was the best astrology book ever written.


I suppose you excuse his frequent reversals or attacking the dead too? The man has no redeeming qualities, unlike all presidents who preceded him!


----------



## calm

Trump was elected president because he sold himself as a successful businessman,
Business people have psychopathic traits and tendencies.
Why is there any surprise?

The Trick of the Psychopath's Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others
By Henry See
February 01, 2008




__





Ponerology: The Science of Evil: The Trick of the Psychopath's Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others







ponerology.blogspot.com





Serial killers and politicians share traits
By Jim Kouri
June 12, 2010




__





Serial killers and politicians share traits by Jim Kouri, Law Enforcement Examiner






www.thirdworldtraveler.com


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> Trump was elected president because he sold himself as a successful businessman,
> Business people have psychopathic traits and tendencies.
> Why is there any surprise?
> 
> The Trick of the Psychopath's Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others
> By Henry See
> February 01, 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ponerology: The Science of Evil: The Trick of the Psychopath's Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ponerology.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serial killers and politicians share traits
> By Jim Kouri
> June 12, 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serial killers and politicians share traits by Jim Kouri, Law Enforcement Examiner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thirdworldtraveler.com


Speaking of which, Trump is one who is paranoid about loyalty. A Project Lincoln ad plays on that fear: 




I think it is pretty obvious that the Republicans are better at putting together attack ads than Democrats.


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> Trump was elected president because he sold himself as a successful businessman,


I think it's more that Trump is a con man, and knows how to play the media and the public. He's a horrible business man and a phony:









As a Businessman, Trump Was the Biggest Loser of All


Many Americans still believe that the President is a savvy and successful businessman who knows what he is doing. But the actual record suggests the exact opposite.




www.newyorker.com





One thing I learned while living in the US is that Americans have a strange kind of respect for overconfident blowhards. So Trump *does* actually resonate with many Americans in a way that Canadians (and Europeans) can't understand.

Americans have a strange respect for people who are loud, brash, overconfident, and who have no shame. This is one quirk of American culture.

Americans _like_ that kind of thing. Many of them like Trump, and like his style.


----------



## Beaver101

^


> ...
> Americans have a strange respect for people who are loud, brash, overconfident, and who have no shame. This is one quirk of American culture.
> 
> Americans _like_ that kind of thing. Many of them like Trump, and like his style.


 .. it seems a few "Canadians" on this forum like that kind of thing too, MAGA.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ^ .. it seems a few "Canadians" on this forum like that kind of thing too, MAGA.


Those are the very same people on this forum who fully support the most corrupt and incompetent Prime Minister Canada has ever had.


----------



## Beaver101

^ So why're you registered under the Canadian flag on this forum? Playing camouflaging?


----------



## calm

The media is telling us all day that Trump is an idiot, but I just checked his campaign funds and he has 130 million in contributions for the month of June alone.
(Biden got $140 million in June)
How is it possible that a country with 50 million unemployed have the extra bucks to donate to any political campaign?
There must be lots of folks that think that Trump is doing a good job.
Why would anybody give a dime to somebody who seems to have failed at every turn?


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> Why would anybody give a dime to somebody who seems to have failed at every turn?


Trump has been a success compared to the Democrats. The Democrats have a 5 decade history of failing at almost everything and people are stupid enough to keep voting for them.


----------



## bgc_fan

Remember when the Democrats were pushing retraining programs to coal workers, but Trump said their jobs were safe? 

Looks like there is a bit of switch in approach now: White House campaign to help jobless 'find something new'

Here's the link to the companion website: https://findsomethingnew.org/

And here are some of the rising employment opportunities from that website:
Aerospace engineering and operations technician
Broadcast and sound engineering technician
Computer support specialist
_*Contact tracer*_
Diagnostic medical sonographer
Electrician
Elevator installers and repairer
Line installers and repairer
Radiologic/MRI technician
Registered nurse
Web developer
*Wind turbine technician*

Contact tracer is an interesting one, same with Wind turbine technician. I mean why support an industry that causes cancer (according to Trump)?


----------



## calm

Trump is giving a press briefing at 5pm today.
I think he is going to announce that the military will be doing the Test/Trace regime and he will also announce that the Defence Production Act will be used to manufacture the testing equipment.

I am just guessing.

Edit: 5:40pm
Embarrassing, but I was wrong.


----------



## Eder

For those with an open mind heres another casualty of group think. NY Times has hit rock bottom.



https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter


----------



## sags

Trump wanted to sell Puerto Rico, so no amount of dementia induced crazy talk is impossible.


----------



## calm

Trump administration recommends the National Guard as an option to help hospitals report coronavirus data

The Trump administration is asking governors to consider sending the National Guard to hospitals to help improve data collection about novel coronavirus patients, supplies and capacity, according to a letter, internal emails and officials familiar with the plans.

Trump administration recommends the National Guard as an option to help hospitals report coronavirus data
Move eliminates the CDC as a data recipient, raising concerns among public health experts
By Lena H. Sun and Amy Goldstein
July 14, 2020


https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/13/trump-administration-recommend-national-guard-an-option-help-hospitals-report-covid-19-data



Note: The Washington Post is PayWall but if you use this program you can continue without payment.

Tracks Eraser Pro (Free Download)




__





Internet Eraser -Tracks Eraser Pro -erase internet history






www.acesoft.net


----------



## calm

The plan is to have no plan
"There is no genius there, only a damaged human being playing havoc with our lives."
By Jay Rosen
May 04, 2020 (With Updates July 15th)








The plan is to have no plan - PressThink


"There is no genius there, only a damaged human being playing havoc with our lives."




pressthink.org


----------



## Prairie Guy

Eder said:


> For those with an open mind heres another casualty of group think. NY Times has hit rock bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter


Silence from the leftists on this site...they'll continue to quote the NYT going forward as accurate "journalism".


----------



## sags

The NYT gave her a job as an opinion editor and allowed her to publish controversial editorial comment.

Some of the editorials caused a big public outcry, but the NYT refused to bow to pressure and kept her on the payroll.

Unfortunately for her, she couldn't handle the backlash on social media, mostly on Twitter and decided to quit.

She blames the NYT and fellow reporters for not sticking up for her, but she needs to develop a thicker skin or find another career.

They have a business to run and other stories to investigate and print, so they aren't going to defend her after every opinion piece is printed.

If you poke a stick into a hornet's nest, you will likely be stung. It goes with the job.


----------



## Topo

From America's Finest News Source:









Melania Trump Figures It’s Time To Sit Barron Down And Tell Him He Was Bred For His Organs


WASHINGTON—Reflecting that the moment had finally come for the difficult conversation, Melania Trump reportedly took some time Thursday to sit Barron down and tell him he was bred for his organs. “Listen, Barron, now that you’re 14, you’re old enough for me to tell you the truth, which is that...




www.theonion.com







> “You’re a wonderful young man, and your daddy and I don’t love you any less just because if we ever have organ failure, we’re going to harvest you for your liver or, say, one of your kidneys..."


----------



## Prairie Guy

Leftist violence is now openly being supported and encouraged by the New York Times. They are planning to run a story that gives out Tucker Carlson's address. There is no valid journalistic reason for this...they are doing this specifically so a mob will target his family and destroy his home for the crime of disagreeing with them.









Tucker Carlson Closed Monday's Show With a Blistering Word to the New York Times


Fox News Channel’s Tucker Carlson ended Monday night’s broadcast with an angry warning to the New York Times. According to Carlson, the Times is planning to run a story this week that will...




pjmedia.com


----------



## like_to_retire

I have always been amazed and amused at how Trump has the ability to change his story at any time and act as if that was always his position. He is indeed a master of that skill.

Now, he supports wearing masks.

_Trump tweeted an image of himself wearing the face covering on Monday, writing, “Many people say that it is Patriotic to wear a face mask when you can’t socially distance. There is nobody more Patriotic than me, your favorite President!” _

ltr


----------



## Prairie Guy

like_to_retire said:


> I have always been amazed and amused at how Trump has the ability to change his story at any time and act as if that was always his position. He is indeed a master of that skill.
> 
> Now, he supports wearing masks.
> 
> _Trump tweeted an image of himself wearing the face covering on Monday, writing, “Many people say that it is Patriotic to wear a face mask when you can’t socially distance. There is nobody more Patriotic than me, your favorite President!” _
> 
> ltr


Doctors changed their mind on masks too. So did Trudeau.


----------



## like_to_retire

Prairie Guy said:


> Doctors changed their mind on masks too. So did Trudeau.


Can Trudeau change his story at any time and act as if that was always his position. I guess you missed my point.

ltr


----------



## sags

This is real. This is what the President of the United States actually said about his cognitive test.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286675192585093126


----------



## Prairie Guy

When will Biden take a cognitive test?

I can't wait for the debates.


----------



## calm

I think Biden's medical records are being audited in the same way that Trump's taxes are. 
We may never see Biden take a cognitive test til after the medical audit is completed..


----------



## Prairie Guy

Everyone knows Biden can't complete a cognitive test. It has nothing to do with Trump's taxes, that's just a poor attempt at deflection.


----------



## sags

Donald Trump and Joe Biden for President.

Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Grassley.........and on and on.

Why does America end up with all old people holding all the power in government ?

Their top levels of government is like an old folks home.


----------



## calm

I keep saying that there is no difference between the political parties.
They just play musical chairs to give the illusion of a functioning democracy.

"Biden told his Wall Street donors that actually, he is not proposing any new legislation to rein in corporate power or change corporate behavior — and this was reported exactly nowhere, even as his campaign blasted it out to the national press corps. "








Biden Pool Report - 7/20/20 | PDF | Joe Biden


Biden Pool Report -- 7/20/20




www.scribd.com


----------



## sags

Trump/Pence campaign headquarters voicemail greeting won't have to change much for 2020.

They can just add some more extension numbers for information on injecting bleach, forcing people not to wear a mask, and Joe Biden.


----------



## Eder

Well turns out he was right about Hydroxy chloroquine









The key to defeating COVID-19 already exists. We need to start using it | Opinion


Contrary to what you hear, there is clear-cut medical evidence for the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.




www.newsweek.com





To bad effective treatments are politicized .


----------



## calm

I worked at Dome Mines in South Porcupine Ontario as a hoistman in the early 70's and when gold hit the roof.
Dome Mines paid a few cents more per hour as a "bonus" for each dollar that gold increased in value.


----------



## Retired Peasant

calm said:


> I worked at Dome Mines in South Porcupine Ontario as a hoistman in the early 70's and when gold hit the roof.
> Dome Mines paid a few cents more per hour as a "bonus" for each dollar that gold increased in value.


That was kinda random...


----------



## calm

Retired Peasant said:


> That was kinda random...


Sorry .... I posted it in wrong thread. Should of been thread about Gold.


----------



## sags

Farmers that voted for Trump last time are now voting for Biden.

Trump's trade policies have brought the farmers to bankruptcy. The aid packages Trump raves about are peanuts compared to the losses.

Trump has lost the cities and suburbs. Now he is losing rural American. He is facing the most embarrassing defeat in US history.


----------



## calm

The media is trying to bury Trump with stories about withdrawing 12 thousand troops from Europe and thus pleasing Putin and The Clowns.

In truth, these troops will be needed in America as martial law is declared.
In addition; what use is a military that needs to keep distance from fellow warriors while on base or on patrol?
It is near impossible to man an aircraft carrier because of such close quarters.
When martial law is declared, all college and university campuses will house and feed the troops.


----------



## calm

What Trump knows about Canada .....

Tweet:
By Jason Leopold
Via my #FOIA: This is a background paper on Canada DHS prepared for then-director John Kelly in advance of his meeting with govt officials
July 29, 2020

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288492652464201728Image 1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288492652464201728Image 2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288492652464201728


----------



## calm

Trump is acting and talking like a "Corporation"
Corporations are psycopaths. No conscience.

Politicians need to talk like magicians. (MAGA - Magicians Are Great Again)

It takes a special effort for a CEO to worry about human nature.
Trump is calling 1/2 of the country "Terrorists".

Those are not the workds of a politician. He is not using "Magic".

They are the words of a CEO. The words of a Corporation.

No sense of public responsibility or the greater good.
No sense of community involvement. 
A cultish or corporate emvironment.


----------



## sags

The run up to the November election is going to be very entertaining television. Stock up on your popcorn and drinks........LOL.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Didn't he say he was going to have the election postponed? In which case the Orange King Clown is still in charge. Maybe he's hoping his opponent will die before him so he can continue squatting on the throne.


----------



## calm

sags said:


> The run up to the November election is going to be very entertaining television. Stock up on your popcorn and drinks........LOL.


I am a Canadian but I remember how depressed I became when hearing that George W. Bush won his second term. It was the same kind of mind numbness that I got when O.J. Simpson walked out of court.

The polls had George Bush losing big time. Protests were happening everywhere.
John Kerry was advertising the same "Kool" type of personality that Biden now pretends.

It was the same Democracy whereI understood that politicians like Christine O’Donnell used her campaign funds for personal living expenses and it was legal.

If swing voters favor Trump, how can Biden be winning?
Polls show a widening lead for Joe Biden. even in traditional swing states. But in focus groups among actual swing voters, it seems Trump still holds sway.
CNN
Host Michael Smerconish
August 01, 2020








Comment: If swing voters favor Trump, how can Biden be winning? - CNN Video


Polls show a widening lead for former Vice President Joe Biden, even in traditional swing states; but in focus groups among actual swing voters, it seems President Donald Trump still holds sway.




www.cnn.com


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Didn't he say he was going to have the election postponed? In which case the Orange King Clown is still in charge. Maybe he's hoping his opponent will die before him so he can continue squatting on the throne.


Can't happen for a variety of reasons. One, it is the individual states that administer the election process, which is why it is always a mess each election. And the constitution specifies that it is a 4 year term. There is no latitude for extension. So as of January, if he is not reelected, or if there is no election he will be removed. The provision seems to be that the House chooses the président, and the senate picks the vice.


----------



## calm

Remember when Bush challenged the election results and all those supporters banging on the office windows where the ballots were being counted? (John G. Roberts was one of those banging the windows with his fist and was later rewarded with being Supreme Court Justice )

All those Anti-Mask Folks will be banging on Windows.

The tone and the threatening protests are forever seared into my mind.

It may be just the situation that Biden may use to introduce Martial Law.


----------



## sags

If Trump were to refuse to vacate, it gets complicated.

His term runs out on Jan 20 and there is no provision for an extension, so he would be replaced.

Normally the Speaker of the House would take over as President, but during an election year when the Speaker and others are up for election they have their own deadlines and may not be considered members of the House as their term has expired. (if there was no 2020 election).

Hence, only the members of the House NOT up for re-election in 2020 could vote.

The Democrats would still be the majority and the Majority Leader Steny Hoyer would become President.

ONLY the House of Representatives can delay an election and the Democrats are the majority............so it is never going to happen.

The US military has already stated they would follow the Constitution.........so Trump would be removed by force if necessary.


----------



## sags

Joe Biden is said to be announcing his VP nominee soon. That will be an interesting choice.


----------



## calm

It is not about the election. Trump knows he has lost. All Trump is really interested in now is that the Ruling Class pay for and build a presidential library for him. And give him and his family a lifetime of security guards to prevent the delivery of a subpoena.
Nobody will be interested in his tax forms.

And people will pay big bucks for ticket entry just for the experience of being inside a Trump Palace without wearing a mask.

The Ruling Class gave George W. Bush Zillions to "Improve" the ranch in Crawford Texas. (And that was after they stole all the W's off the typewriters.)

It is about "After" the election. After the next president is sworn in.

Trump is building "Insurrection" and the case for Martial Law which Biden will be asked to do.

Failure to deal with the Virus strategically with a National Plan is purposeful and will add to the civil unrest.

In addition, deals are being made to privatize all the testing. All the data and calculations is being funneled through a guy (Thiel) who has invested heavily into Trump and with Mayor Bloomberg in New York.

Any testing results or historic information about the battle against this virus is now in private hands and not subject to the Freedom Of Information Act.

The same Corporate Structures which are financially supporting Trump right now will soon be paying campaign funding and encouraging Biden to impose Martial Law. It will be said that Biden has a mandate because he won the election with 60% of ballots cast.

That the population becomes too busy fighting among themselves and are then too busy to protest government policies.

We will be far too busy tussling about masks.

Biden needs to be able to project "Power" on the day he is elected.
He can not rant and rave on the world stage with Martial Law in Place. The hypocrisy would be too huge. He needs a 60% win margin.

Does anybody really think that all this "Commotion" is not supported by The Ruling Class.

Look at who is contributing to the Trump campaign.
The very same Economic Terrorists who will soon support Biden and The Clowns and facilitate the implementation of Martial Law.

They are playing Musical Chairs and eating cake.

Trump signed off on importing drugs from Canada which will create shortages in Canada and raise the Canadian price structure ..... more discontent.


----------



## sags

I think it more likely Trump will take the escape pod to Russia.


----------



## like_to_retire

sags said:


> Joe Biden is said to be announcing his VP nominee soon. That will be an interesting choice.


Yep, it will, seeing as how if he won, that person would probably be the President.

ltr


----------



## like_to_retire

calm said:


> It is not about the election. Trump knows he has lost.


Yeah, I remember all the smarmy CNN talking heads during the last election recommending Trump to bow out since he'll be so embarrassed by the landslide for Hillary.

We'll see.

ltr


----------



## Topo

Trump is a failed president. A miserable failure.

That is irrespective of the results of the November election.


----------



## calm

I think that Biden will choose Val Demings








 Val Demings - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## calm

We always hear that the business world is ‘dog eat dog’. 

In kindergarden, we learn how to Cooperate only during the time when we play nicely.

Other than that, Talking to somebody or to Colaborate with somebody is cheating.

Saying something different to your friends other than what the teacher has told you, then you are being insubordinate. (Behaviourwise or Intellectually.)

In kindergarden we just regurgitate what we have learned by using these "Kindergarden Tools". (No Socialist Cooperatives.)

That is how we passed to 1st grade because we knew or learned how to do this.

Learned how to be an individual and just to regurgitate.
--Jessica Gordon Nembhard--








Jessica Gordon Nembhard







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Didn't he say he was going to have the election postponed? In which case the Orange King Clown is still in charge. Maybe he's hoping his opponent will die before him so he can continue squatting on the throne.


Nope...he asked if it "should" be postponed specifically to make the Democrats demand that it be held on Nov 4. He knew exactly what he was doing and the Democrats fell for it.

I guess you fell for it too.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Trying to seek attention? Or that you missed me .... ah so sweet of you so I'll reply. 

Ya, I felled for it just as I'm turning blind & deaf from his rancid "FAKE NEWS!!!!" tweets. Happy now?


----------



## calm

I once read that a Congress Person spends at least 5 hours per day on the phone banks begging for money and financing the political office holder.

The media says that Congress is "Working Hard" and trying to arrive at a "Fair" decision about Unemployment Payments and bail-out stuff.

How hard was that? Did everybody just sit at a table and kinda' sweat?
They are giving the dollar away for free. Zero Interest.

The American Dollar is just a blurp on a computer screen at the Federal Reserve. A Klick on a Keyboard in Mouse Land. A Whiff of Magic.

Where is the "Hard Work" in that?

How hard was it to imagine Klicking on the Keyboard 3 Trillion times and creating 3 Trillion Dollars to keep the status quo intact?

I think that Congress needs to be wearing Face Masks 24-7 just to hide the Congressional Smirks upon the faces behind the masks.

Media pretends that Ponzi Schemes and the creation of more free money is very labour intensive. Really Hard Work.

Nobody is really working.... They are just eating a lot of cake.

2020 Congressional Pig Book
_The Congressional Pig Book_ is CAGW's annual compilation of the pork-barrel projects in the federal budget.
A "pork" project is a line-item in an appropriations bill that designates tax dollars for a specific purpose in circumvention of established budgetary procedures.
To qualify as pork, a project must meet one of seven criteria that were developed in 1991 by CAGW and the Congressional Porkbusters Coalition.








2021 Congressional Pig Book







www.cagw.org


----------



## calm

I think Trump's performance was pretty good.
He rattled off numbers like the sounds of popping corn.

If this election is about "Data" and "Numbers"...... Trump Wins! Hands Down.

Trump is not too well with explaining Policy. But rest assured that the numbers are "Stupendous".

Trump is very well rehearsed with putting spin on numbers.
It is numbers that Trump has dealt with his complete life.
Real Estate Empires are built with numbers.
Casino's are owned by the numbers.

Trump is rattling off numbers just like the Climate Control folks do.

Numbers to measure carbon in the air and pathogens of virus in the air.

Trump is going to bury the world with numbers and Statistical Errors.

Trump said he had "Beautiful" numbers. "Fabulous" numbers. "Terrific "
numbers. "Great" Numbers. (Al Capone had a great number printed on his work uniform.)

And the media will be acting like a hostage and Fact Checking the numbers.

The election has now been placed on "Cruise Control".
Problem Solved.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Trying to seek attention? Or that you missed me .... ah so sweet of you so I'll reply.
> 
> Ya, I felled for it just as I'm turning blind & deaf from his rancid "FAKE NEWS!!!!" tweets. Happy now?


Trump doesn't have the authority to change the election date, only Congress has that power. By asking "if" it should be delayed he forced the Democrats to publicly confirm that the election date will not change.

As I previously stated, he knew exactly what he was doing and he got the expected response.

I also didn't expect a mature response from you and I wasn't disappointed.


----------



## sags

What did Trump expect to gain ? All he received was derision from fellow Republicans for another idiotic idea.

Place that one alongside nuking a hurricane, selling Puerto Rico, injecting bleach, and everyone's favorite......building a wall and making Mexico pay for it.


----------



## james4beach

Prairie Guy said:


> Nope...he asked if it "should" be postponed specifically to make the Democrats demand that it be held on Nov 4. He knew exactly what he was doing and the Democrats fell for it.
> 
> I guess you fell for it too.


This is how a cult member thinks. Even when his Dear Leader screws up and does something stupid, it's actually part of his wisdom and master plan.

Haha he showed you! You _thought_ he was being an imbecile but he's actually playing 4 dimensional chess and outsmarting all of you. Dear Leader has outwitted his enemies again, blessed be the Dear Leader.

I'll say it again ... MAGA is a cult (see article).


----------



## Prairie Guy

The NYT is so scared of Trump that they want the presidential debates to be cancelled.

The reality is that Biden is now so incapacitated that he is incapable of forming simple sentences but the Democrats chose him knowing that and now they're stuck with him.


----------



## Beaver101

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump doesn't have the authority to change the election date, only Congress has that power. By asking "if" it should be delayed he forced the Democrats to publicly confirm that the election date will not change.
> 
> As I previously stated, he knew exactly what he was doing and he got the expected response.
> 
> I also didn't expect a mature response from you and I wasn't disappointed.


 ...whatever. 

For all I know the "mature" people in politics are an evil bunch that I don't care to associate with.


----------



## bgc_fan

Speaking of bank fraud in the Meng case. Trump being investigated for bank fraud, prosecutors suggest


----------



## calm

Trump is good with numbers...... The word "Number" appears 9 times in a 14 minute briefing.

Remarks by President Trump in Press Briefing
August 03, 2020








Remarks by President Trump in Press Briefing | August 3, 2020 | The White House


James S. Brady Press Briefing Room 5:36 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: I want to start by providing information on our response to Tropical Storm Isaias. It’s a v




www.whitehouse.gov


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> Speaking of bank fraud in the Meng case. Trump being investigated for bank fraud, prosecutors suggest


So now unverified news reports are proof? The left is getting more and more desperate, and to open another investigation with no proof is a blatant abuse of power.

Of course, they can't be bothered to investigate the real evidence of Clinton's sexual assault of minor children on Epstein's island.


----------



## calm

Prairie Guy said:


> Of course, they can't be bothered to investigate the real evidence of Clinton's sexual assault of minor children on Epstein's island.


I follow the Epstein case very closely and have done so for years.
The case interests me because it might very well involve Mossad and The Boys.
Much like what Russia is being accused of and holding Trump as hostage.
Epstein might be holding people hostage to a storage room of tapes and photos. It seems that all the major players with Epstein were tied to Israel and Mossad.
At one point in history, it was Israel citizens who owned and operated most all the porn sites in North America.




__





honey pot + spy - Google Search






www.google.com


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> So now unverified news reports are proof? The left is getting more and more desperate, and to open another investigation with no proof is a blatant abuse of power.
> 
> Of course, they can't be bothered to investigate the real evidence of Clinton's sexual assault of minor children on Epstein's island.


Not sure what you are saying. It's proof that he is being investigated.

Nice deflection, but then again Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old. https://www.newsweek.com/trump-teen-rape-allegation-national-enquirer-ronan-farrow-jane-doe-1465652


----------



## Prairie Guy

There are lots of accusations made against Trump...they've all been prove to be false. On the other hand Clinton's trips to Einstein's pedo island are logged and documented as secret service were on some of the flights.

Your failure to get upset about Clinton could suggest that you approve of his behaviour.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> There are lots of accusations made against Trump...they've all been prove to be false. On the other hand Clinton's trips to Einstein's pedo island are logged and documented as secret service were on some of the flights.
> 
> Your failure to get upset about Clinton could suggest that you approve of his behaviour.


Projecting much? Actually, the accusations haven't been proven false, most accusers have been threatened to drop the cases.

I don't care about Clinton and if he was part of it, so be it. But there hasn't been much in the way of proof that he flew to the island. You make the assertion, you provide the proof. Otherwise you're just noise in the background.


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> I don't care about Clinton and if he was part of it, so be it. But there hasn't been much in the way of proof that he flew to the island. You make the assertion, you provide the proof. Otherwise you're just noise in the background.


There's lots of evidence...secret service records of flights to the island is just one example.

But I get that you don't care about Clinton...he's a Democrat and therefore the rules are different. What Clinton DID is far less important that what someone has falsely accused Trump of doing.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> There's lots of evidence...secret service records of flights to the island is just one example.
> 
> But I get that you don't care about Clinton...he's a Democrat and therefore the rules are different. What Clinton DID is far less important that what someone has falsely accused Trump of doing.


You haven't shown any evidence, have a link?


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> You haven't shown any evidence, have a link?


It's been widely reported, no need to do so again. The information is readily available if you choose to look.

But you won't do that. Perhaps you can accuse me of projecting again instead of doing 30 seconds of research.


----------



## calm

Trump is performing the "Number Act" again.

..... "32 Thousand Percent" ....


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> It's been widely reported, no need to do so again. The information is readily available if you choose to look.
> 
> But you won't do that. Perhaps you can accuse me of projecting again instead of doing 30 seconds of research.


No, because it's on you to prove because you brought it up. Kind of the point. Otherwise you haven't proven a thing, and like everything else you post, is just untruth.

But thanks for the illustration of the right-wing gish gallop technique of argument:

My original post:



bgc_fan said:


> Speaking of bank fraud in the Meng case. Trump being investigated for bank fraud, prosecutors suggest


Followed by responses unrelated to Trump being investigated for bank fraud.



Prairie Guy said:


> Of course, they can't be bothered to investigate the real evidence of Clinton's sexual assault of minor children on Epstein's island.





Prairie Guy said:


> There are lots of accusations made against Trump...they've all been prove to be false. On the other hand Clinton's trips to Einstein's pedo island are logged and documented as secret service were on some of the flights.
> 
> Your failure to get upset about Clinton could suggest that you approve of his behaviour.


Instead of debating the issue, you start deflecting and changing the topic. 

And then of course, refuse to back up with any facts. @Longtimeago If you are wondering why there are no constructive debates, this is pretty much an example why.


----------



## sags

The releases from Epstein's accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell are revealing names and who knows what. She has "the goods" on everyone.

Anyone involved should be brought to the full weight of justice. I don't care who they are.

Names mentioned so far........Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Alan Dershowitz, Prince Harry, and I am sure there will be others.

They all knew Epstein and what he did and was doing. There may be some in the Justice Department that are brought down as well.

I say let them all face their accusers, and if Trump isn't among them I will be surprised.


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> And then of course, refuse to back up with any facts. @Longtimeago If you are wondering why there are no constructive debates, this is pretty much an example why.


We know why. You and a couple others refuse to debate when the facts disagree with your preconceived thoughts and instead attack those who point out when you are wrong.


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> We know why. You and a couple others refuse to debate when the facts disagree with your preconceived thoughts and instead attack those who point out when you are wrong.


Right. I already posted the sequence of events where I mentioned Trump being investigated and how you derailed it in the first response. I think that is pretty obvious who doesn't have a clue.

Still waiting for some proof. Otherwise we can just chalk you up as Lonewolf who likes spewing conspiracy theories. You have the same credibility.


----------



## calm

Trump knows he is not going to win.

He is Okay with any and all stimulus that the Republican's will get credit for before the election.

No money for the Individual States because it will not affect the economy til after the election.

Why would Trump give money to State Governments and having it used by Democrats to investigate Trump?

When the Democrat's win, it will be the People's Party that will need to sell the world a huge increase in deficit spending. Democrats will be responsible for all the deficit spending which was delayed by Trump.

I estimate an additional 20 Trillion Dollars in spending within the the next 18 months.

It will cost tons and skids of dollar bills to "Repair" the economy.

The Republican's got to the slop bucket first and bailed out the Ruling Class and allowed them to keep their bonus and share values.

It will be Democrats that will need to cut social programs because it will be said that the country can not afford to make taxpayers whole again. Only the Economic Terrorists qualify for bonus money. The unemployed don't deserve any bonus money.

When Trump called the Democrats "Radical Terrorists" it gave the democrats permission to call Wall Street "Economic Terrorists". (Trump made a huge error of judgement.)

Biden will win with a huge majority in both houses of congress and with a huge mandate to govern,

The Republican's will win control of the Senate again in 2022 because the "Radical Terrorists" are being too reckless with taxpayer's money.

The game of musical chairs continues.


----------



## calm

I think that this show is an example of what American Intelligence Agencies are claiming to be Russian interference in American elections.

Both are American born, but not allowed much within American media.

Voter fraud, stealing elections
Chris Hedges discusses the potential for voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election with investigative journalist Greg Palast.
RT - On Contact
Host Chris Hedges interviews Gregory Allyn "Greg" Palast
August 09, 2020








On contact


Author and social critic Chris Hedges hosts a weekly interview show called ‘On Contact,’ which will air “dissident voices” currently missing from the mainstream media. Hedges interviews the black sheep of the establishment, leading discussions that can’t be heard anywhere else.




www.rt.com












Greg Palast - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




(Flash Video)








On Contact: Voter fraud, stealing elections


Chris Hedges discusses the potential for voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election with investigative journalist Greg Palast




www.rt.com


----------



## calm

Every time I hear Trump badmouth Obama, I remember the comedy sketch that Obama performed

“The President’s Speech” at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner
Transcript:
May 01, 2011








“The President’s Speech” at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner


President Obama speaks at the 2011 White House Correspondents’ Dinner, offering a sneak peak of a sequel to the film the King’s Speech that touches close to home.




obamawhitehouse.archives.gov





Watch Obama dig into Trump at the 2011 White House Correspondents’ Dinner.
In 2011, Hawaii released President Obama's birth certificate after much prodding from Donald Trump and the 'Birther Movement.' Obama took the opportunity to crack some jokes about it at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
(YouTube Video)


----------



## Prairie Guy

I remember that too. That was probably the moment that Trump decided to run for president. You can thank Obama for him being elected.


----------



## calm

Disloyal, The Foreword: The Real Real Donald Trump
By Michael Cohen
March 11, 2020








Complete Forward from Cohen Book on Trump


Here is the complete forward to Michael Cohen’s New Book. Thought everyone would like to see it. Sorry I can’t site it, but the book’s website crashed...I’m sure it will be available tomorrow. DISLOYAL, THE FOREWORD: THE REAL REAL DONALD TRUMP...




www.dailykos.com


----------



## jargey3000

calm said:


> Disloyal, The Foreword: The Real Real Donald Trump
> By Michael Cohen
> March 11, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Complete Forward from Cohen Book on Trump
> 
> 
> Here is the complete forward to Michael Cohen’s New Book. Thought everyone would like to see it. Sorry I can’t site it, but the book’s website crashed...I’m sure it will be available tomorrow. DISLOYAL, THE FOREWORD: THE REAL REAL DONALD TRUMP...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailykos.com


"From golden showers in a sex club in Vegas......" ???


----------



## bgc_fan

Is it this night? 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/971773517325881345


----------



## Eder

Looks like a professor from Yale agrees with Trump on Hydroxy use...

*"Whatever the reason for the FDA’s stonewalling on hydroxychloroquine, this much is certain: Americans are dying unnecessarily, "*









Hydroxychloroquine works in high-risk patients, and saying otherwise is dangerous


As of Wednesday, some 165,000 people in the United States have died from COVID-19. I have made the case in the American Journal of Epidemiology and in Newsweek that people who have a medical need to be treated can be treated early and successfully with hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and antibiotics such…




www.washingtonexaminer.com


----------



## bgc_fan

Everyone can have an opinion and it doesn't mean he's right, but here is a rebuttal:
Yale Doc Backing HCQ Cites Questionable Data - Basically he cites 5 questionable studies and ignores the ones that have negative effects.
Statement from Yale Faculty on Hydroxychloroquine and its Use in COVID-19 - some of his Yale colleagues

His field of research is cancer research which doesn't make him an expert in infectious diseases.

You'll probably pull out America's Frontline Doctors which is another group of doctors with questionable credentials: No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'


----------



## calm

QAnon is conspiratorial, dangerous, and growing. And we're talking about it all wrong.
By Brian Stelter
August 14, 2020

It's more than a 'conspiracy'

cKew made the case to me that when Q is "just labeled 'a conspiracy' — which is usually correct in categorizing the quality of its content — this in effect diminishes the scope and scale of the danger." She said "it is important to talk about how it is an extremist ideology linked to violent attacks. It is important to talk about not just the cartoonish-seeming beliefs about cannibalism and fighting super-pedophiles, but to explain that it glorifies the military and militant actors as a means of recruiting believers; that it is also intertwined with incredibly extreme interpretations of Christian beliefs — so much so that some Christian preachers have issued warnings about QAnon. 'Conspiracist' conjures images of Alex Jones-like hysteria paired with the hawking of vitamin supplements and doomsday equipment. 'Extremist ideology' and 'radicalized followers' are more accurate terms to express the danger of QAnon. No, we don't want to inflate its importance. But when it will have a caucus in Congress, potentially, the horse will be out of the barn there."








Analysis: QAnon is conspiratorial, dangerous, and growing. And we're talking about it all wrong.


A version of this article first appeared in the "Reliable Sources" newsletter. You can sign up for free right here.




www.cnn.com


----------



## calm

KNKX boots weather guru Mass over his comparison of Seattle protests to Nazi Germany

Tacoma public radio station KNKX dropped weather commentator Cliff Mass Thursday after the University of Washington meteorology professor compared recent violent incidents during Seattle civil rights protests to Kristallnacht, or the “Night of Broken Glass,” during the Nazi Germany era.
Mass made the comparison on his immensely popular weather blog Wednesday. Since then, outrage has bellowed across the social media landscape.
By Craig Sailor
August 07, 2020








Jewish Weatherman Fired for Comparing Riots to Kristallnacht on His Blog | Blog Posts


From the Tacoma News Tribune: KNKX boots weath...




vdare.com


----------



## jargey3000

soooo....if they go ahead with mail-in voting. which himself says is crooked & ripe for fraud etc., and he wins....what does he say then...?


----------



## bgc_fan

jargey3000 said:


> soooo....if they go ahead with mail-in voting. which himself says is crooked & ripe for fraud etc., and he wins....what does he say then...?


He'd say that he won in spite of all the dirty tricks and fraud. Leading up to the 2016 election he was saying the same thing about voter fraud and implying that if he lost it's because it was fixed.

He's just providing an excuse in case he loses. If he wins, no issue.


----------



## Eder

It does seem Hydroxy is a suitable treatment for Covid...sucks that things get political. At any rate Trump does seem to have some smart people giving him tidbits of wisdom that he then goes on to butcher lol.


----------



## calm

Eder said:


> It does seem Hydroxy is a suitable treatment for Covid...


I was always under the impression that Hydroxy was no good for anything.
Did harm in some cases.
Seems to me that I heard some MSM detail some government report, maybe 2 weeks ago?
It was not that important to me, so I never studied the issue.


----------



## jargey3000

also.....can he walk any s-l-o-w-e-r.....?🧐


----------



## calm

Who walks slowly?


----------



## sags

Many medical experts watching Trump have concluded he suffered a stroke on his right side and continues to have mini-strokes.

They say the medications he is taking, his difficulty walking, talking, mental confusion, and weakness in arms, legs, and hands all indicate a stroke.

He may also be receiving medication through an IV juncture in his scalp under his hair. Recent photos have shown a patch there and bruising on his hands from blood draws. At his age it can be difficult to draw blood or start IVs and they have to go somewhere else on the body. My wife was an RN and says they can use the scalp, and in fact often do with babies.

I think Trump is not well, but refuses to step down out of fear of imprisonment.

Trump is quoted as saying the worst day of his life was the day he walked down the Trump Tower stairs and announced he would run for President.

I think there is little doubt that the legacy of the Presidency for him is all negative. He never thought he could win and never actually wanted the job.


----------



## calm

Oh! I understand.
Very funny comment.


----------



## jargey3000

Tim Conway walked faster, FFS!


----------



## jargey3000




----------



## calm

Trump is actively working to undermine the Postal Service — and every major U.S. institution

Today, as we struggle with social upheaval, soaring debt, record unemployment, a runaway pandemic, and rising threats from China and Russia, President Trump is actively working to undermine every major institution in this country. He has planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of many Americans that our institutions aren’t functioning properly. And, if the president doesn’t trust the intelligence community, law enforcement, the press, the military, the Supreme Court, the medical professionals, election officials and the postal workers, then why should we? And if Americans stop believing in the system of institutions, then what is left but chaos and who can bring order out of chaos: only Trump. It is the theme of every autocrat who ever seized power or tried to hold onto it.
By William H. McRaven
August 16, 2020


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-countrys-future-could-hinge-on-postal-workers/2020/08/16/c0f7b97e-dfca-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html


----------



## calm

Jena Griswald a former Colorado Secretary of State with Mail-In voting says that Russia can not interfere with paper mail-in ballots.


----------



## jargey3000

I never cud understand.Could someone please explain to me, in simple terms, how Russia made Trump win the last election?


----------



## calm

jargey3000 said:


> I never cud understand.Could someone please explain to me, in simple terms, how Russia made Trump win the last election?


.
I have followed the gist of this story quite intently.

Simple Terms:
American media outlets do not allow "Radical Socialist" viewpoints in TV-Land.
Russia owned media such as RT allows these Radical Socialists to have their own programs. Russia Today (RT) is the most popular media outlet in the world because of this. Russian media is in direct competition with American media and is winning hearts and minds.
America has been doing exactly what RT is doing today since WWII.
America attempts to undermine governments with Radio America, and many other channels.
America is setting the table to shut access to RT in the very near future because it is interfering in the American voting system by winning the hearts and minds of Americans with socialist viewpoints.








National Endowment for Democracy - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




----
Claims are that WikiLeaks and Russia hacked Hillary computers and computers owned by the Democratic Party.
I believe that a guy named Seth Rich (A DNC employee) downloaded the files and then gave them to WikiLeaks.




__





Murder of Seth Rich - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




----
Debbie Wasserman Shultz hired a Pakistani computer wizard and he may of added to the leaks.








Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the Pakistani IT Scammers | National Review


A Pakistani family managed to fill several high-paid jobs as congressional IT staffers and made off with cash and data.




www.nationalreview.com





What is never mentioned is that the CIA placed back doors into every operating system in the world. The CIA and the NSA stole everything that was not nailed down in MouseLand. The CIA itself may very well of leaked the contents.

NSA has been collecting every communication that has ever happened in MouseLand since 1998. NSA is collecting so much data that they needed to build a collection storage center. 2 million gallons of water per year just to cool the computers.








Utah Data Center - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## bgc_fan

jargey3000 said:


> I never cud understand.Could someone please explain to me, in simple terms, how Russia made Trump win the last election?


There are a couple of ways:
1. Promote dissension among the Democrats: With the Wikileaks only publishing the Democratic e-mails (even though they also had the Republican), the e-mails confirmed that the party was favouring Clinton instead of Sanders, so you get the Sanders supporters refusing to vote for Clinton. Instead they stayed home or voted for Trump. 
2. Promoting Trump over Clinton in targeted ads. Basically free advertising for Trump. Exposing Russia’s Effort to Sow Discord Online: The Internet Research Agency and Advertisements | Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence

There's a bit more here, including timing of the Wikileaks release to distract from the Trump Access Hollywood tape: How Russia Helped Swing the Election for Trump 
Here's the Senate Report on Russia's use of social media: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume2.pdf


----------



## calm

I am a socialist. I would never wish Donald Trump any success.
I have never seen absolute proof that Trump actively worked with Russia to grab and release computer hacks in order win the election.
It seems to me that it is all suspicion and conjecture and no real tangible evidence.
All I have read is that "It appears to be true".

Was the Trump campaign in contact with Russia? Yes.
But every campaign since time began had contacts with Russia during a campaign. It is called "Politics" with a possible transition in mind.

I believe that if there was "Real" tangible proof supplied by an unbiased source to prove that Trump "Arranged" with WikiLeaks to release the computer materials, then Trump would be locked up. This is not like Bill Clinton where they had DNA.
This is several government agencies making charges without hard proof equivalent to DNA.
There is no proof that Russia gave WikiLeaks anything.

There is only suspicion, or if Trump lied about something then he lied about everything.
Just like the CIA when they make claims .... Lied about something, lied about everything.

I am always haunted by what Pompeo claimed ...
(YouTube Video)


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> I have never seen absolute proof that Trump actively worked with Russia to grab and release computer hacks in order win the election.
> It seems to me that it is all suspicion and conjecture and no real tangible evidence.
> All I have read is that "It appears to be true".
> 
> Was the Trump campaign in contact with Russia? Yes.
> But every campaign since time began had contacts with Russia during a campaign. It is called "Politics" with a possible transition in mind.


I don't believe Trump organized or coordinated with Russia with regards to Wikileaks. He just happened to benefit from it.

One of the things about the Mueller report is the fact that the Trump campaign had no qualms about colluding with Russia, they just were incompetent. Which is kind of a weird way to get exonerated, but that's pretty much the case.

As for every campaign, I highly doubt it. There are reasons why you don't contact foreign powers because the only reason why foreign powers would be interested in a particular campaign is if they can benefit from it and help elect which is against US law.


----------



## calm

I think that anybody campaigning to be president would have his people schmoozing with the embassy personnel of every foreign government.
And, all foreign embassy staff are spies.
There are receptions where embassy staff from many embassies are present and where a candidate or his representatives discuss policy.


----------



## sags

The Democrats are making me nervous.

They spent a whole lot of valuable air time on all the networks, having speeches by old white men who don't matter anymore.

They don't seem to have any focus under Biden's leadership. It is all about...Trump is a bad man...vote for me and we will go back to the good old days.

Trump is gaining on Biden. The popular vote is meaningless, as we saw with Hillary Clinton. 

Trump could very easily be re-elected by electoral votes if Biden continues to stumble along as he has been.

I am very concerned the Democrats are trying very hard to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again. They seem to be self destructive that way.

A lineup of 80 year old white men telling war stories from the past, isn't going to resonate with people with no jobs, no income, no healthcare etc.

If the Dems want to win.........they best get back to policy and how they will change American lives for the better.

Because if they don't.........in my opinion, Biden doesn't look a whole lot better than Trump to them, so why bother to vote at all.

The fact is that Trump's supporters WILL show up to vote, and the Democrats have to get all their support out to defeat him.


----------



## calm

I am a political junkie and I just can't handle this election cycle with Biden and the Clowns. I don't watch it. 

It is just a house party for the friends of Biden and a chance to get their mugshots in TV-Land.
I don't want to hear Biden's history. I want to hear what he is going to do to solve the issues within American society.
All I get are people who when asked by the media what Biden is gonna do always reply with "I Think". I don't want to hear what people "Think" Biden is going to do ..... I want to hear Biden give specific facts and plans.
But that is not going to happen.

I might of missed something ..... but all I hear is that Biden likes all American citizens and promises to always like American citizens. And his love for the constitution is exceptionally strong. And his admiration of first responders is overwhelming.

Mostly ..... Biden is a fighter. Biden is strong. Biden is on your side. Biden's wife said that Biden has strong shoulders. And he will act as a preacher on the American scene to bring peace and love within the fractured American society. Arguments to vote for the lesser evil candidate.

Protesters are not seeking peace and love. You can't eat that.

However; Biden is a busy man, in fact so busy that he really can't find the time to fully explain what his plans are if he becomes president.

This is not an election, it is a house warming party and where Biden shares his dreams but not any actual policies.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> I think that anybody campaigning to be president would have his people schmoozing with the embassy personnel of every foreign government.


Except for Biden who is restricting foreign contact: Biden campaign restricts contacts with foreign officials

But yes, it looks like it was the policy in the past.


----------



## calm

Somebody has explained that at Christmas time there are a billion or more Xmas cards delivered on time so there is really no truth to the post office being unable to deliver paper ballots.


----------



## james4beach

Trump is a con man who pretends to love middle America. I stumbled across this great segment from Bill Maher. One can't help but feel bad for rural America and the heartland. Trump is an obnoxious billionaire elite who does nothing but deceive and con gullible Americans.


----------



## Eder

This is starting to sound familiar haha

_*Obama assailed his successor as "unfit" for the office he holds, and a direct threat to the country and its founding principles, while also repudiating Trump's supporters as Americans who truly don't care about preserving American Democratic principles. *_


----------



## calm

I don't admire Obama much. But I must say that his speech last night was pretty well delivered. He sure can hold the attention of the masses.

In 2008, Obama managed to grab control of Congress and the Senate and he did not "Fight" like both he and Biden claimed they would do. (I am so damn tired hearing how the Deomocrats are going to "Fight".)

Obama/Biden stalled around for two years claiming to need bipartisanship. Begging the Republicans for "Consent" to govern. The "Can't We All Just Get Along" trip. Pretending that they did not know that when Republican's are elected, they play for keeps.
In two years, Obama/Biden lost control off the Senate for purposely acting Tweedle-Dum. (Or Dumber)

Biden and Harris are going to do the exact same scenario.
America is a corporation. Not a country.
Corporations do not have a conscience and are psychopaths.

Biden and Harris are going to sit back and bathe in the adoration of winning while Republicans are going to grab control of the senate with the 2022 midterms.

It has always been about the game of musical chairs.


----------



## james4beach

james4beach said:


> Trump is a con man who pretends to love middle America. I stumbled across this great segment from Bill Maher. One can't help but feel bad for rural America and the heartland. Trump is an obnoxious billionaire elite who does nothing but deceive and con gullible Americans.


Great example in the news today! Trump's campaign chief and former White House strategist Steve Bannon was arrested today. He's charged with defrauding donors to a crowd-funded 'build the wall' campaign, using the money for personal use, forging invoices, etc.

Perfect example, because this is how Trump and his gang trick gullible conservative Americans... they are the fools who buy into the con. You hate foreigners right? Let's build a wall! (And I'll enrich myself and my friends of course). I think something like 7 or 8 people in Trump's circle have been arrested and charged with various crimes.

These people have no real desire to govern. Remember, they were anti-government people from the start. Being in power is just a way to get things they want. Some of them are legal (tax cuts for the elites) and some are illegal, like Bannon's scam.

This is Trump's circle, the people he surrounds himself with. Like Trump himself, they are cheats, con men, and borderline criminals. *Trump & gang ARE the swamp*.


----------



## jargey3000

There's also this:
_Trump is the first US president in more than 100 years not to have a dog in the White House_


----------



## sags

Trump said he wasn't familiar with the group that Bannon was using to raise money. He said he didn't like the idea of using private money to build the wall.

It has now been reported that Trump directed the Department of Homeland Security to give Bannon's group $400 million dollars.

The inspector general of the DHS has been investigating where the money went. The walls are closing in on Donald Trump.


----------



## Beaver101

jargey3000 said:


> There's also this:
> _Trump is the first US president in more than 100 years not to have a dog in the White House_


 ... maybe he has a snake as a pet. Besides, he doesn't need a pet when he has Pence attached to him.


----------



## bgc_fan

jargey3000 said:


> There's also this:
> _Trump is the first US president in more than 100 years not to have a dog in the White House_


Who can trust a person who a dog can't even trust?



Beaver101 said:


> ... maybe he has a snake as a pet. Besides, he doesn't need a pet when he has Pence attached to him.


Well, he does have Stephen Miller, but I'll give you Pence.


----------



## sags

Here is what Daniel Goldman, the brilliant lawyer for the Democrats during the impeachment trial says on Twitter......

_The Bannon scheme is amateur hour, which caused silly misteps to assuage victims.

And SDNY has the goods - texts and emails - and also damning evidence of a cover up which proves they knew what they were doing was wrong.

It's a race to get in the door first to cooperate._

It will be interesting to see who is talking to the prosecutors first. Will Bannon take the Manafort route and go to prison for Trump ? I am thinking........not likely.


----------



## calm

I don't think Bannon's sudden death would be either unexpected or inexplicable


----------



## sags

Yea, never thought of that.

Better put him in with Ghislaine Maxwell to keep them safe so they can spill the beans.


----------



## calm

People are now asking about the Clinton Foundation and that Bill and Hillary did the same thing as Bannon is accused of doing.


----------



## calm

New Rule: Think Like a True QAnon
Bill re-reveals his true identity as "Q" and revels in the embrace of his conspiracy theories by President Trump and other politicians.
HBO - Real Time
Host Bill Maher
August 21, 2020
(YouTube Video)


----------



## calm

How Congress Manufactured a Postal Crisis — And How to Fix it

An unprecedented congressional mandate threatens the Postal Service's ability to continue to provide good jobs and universal service.

In 2006, Congress passed a law that imposed extraordinary costs on the U.S. Postal Service. The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA) required the USPS to create a $72 billion fund to pay for the cost of its post-retirement health care costs, 75 years into the future. This burden applies to no other federal agency or private corporation.

If the costs of this retiree health care mandate were removed from the USPS financial statements, the Post Office would have reported operating profits in each of the last six years. This extraordinary mandate created a financial “crisis” that has been used to justify harmful service cuts and even calls for postal privatization. Additional cuts in service and privatization would be devastating for millions of postal workers and customers.
By Sarah Anderson, Scott Klinger and Brian Wakamo
July 15, 2019








How Congress Manufactured a Postal Crisis — And How to Fix it


An unprecedented congressional mandate threatens the Postal Service's ability to continue to provide good jobs and universal service.




ips-dc.org


----------



## calm

Holy Jeeze ..... that guy Trump is such a good performer.
He has his act down pat and delivers it with such a Personality of Pursuasion.
I was impressed with his appearance in TV-Land today.

The guy even wants people living on Mars and hopefully by Christmas time. Maybe building prisons on Mars to house the numerous unruly protesters.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Oh, that confirms it ... the guy wants the locks / combination to his bunker changed so only he has the keys/codes.


----------



## bgc_fan

For a successful businessman, he's pretty bad. While it's Kushner pulling the deal, you can bet Trump isn't far behind the support:
1. Give the Russians $660k for 45 unusable ventilators and useless "medical supplies" like household cleaning gloves in April: Jared Kushner made a deal with Russia for ventilators during the COVID-19 crisis, but every single machine was faulty, report says
2. Give the Russians 200 ventilators a month later for free: US sends 200 ventilators to Russia as crisis deepens, hopes for 'better relationship'

Kind of interesting how Russia benefits.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Confirmation of comment (underline & bold) from post #686:


> ... This is Trump's circle, the people he surrounds himself with. Like Trump himself, they are cheats, con men, and borderline criminals. *Trump & gang ARE the swamp*.


 ... in this case, A Family of Cons.


----------



## calm

Russian Folks see themselves as Europeans.
They even believe in the same Christian God.

Russian Folks don't see themselves as being Orientals.

I think it is very stupid to demonize Russia and kind of force Russia to seek closer bonds with China.

We should not be encouraging a geopolitical situation where China and Russia form an alliance. Perhaps an alliance like U.S. / Canada.

American Capitalists refuse to negotiate an alliance with a bunch of Russian Socialists.


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ... in this case, A Family of Cons.


Who always hire the best... for example, a Postmaster General who doesn't know how much it costs to mail a postcard.






I mean, not asking a lot, but should have some basic idea of the products your organization provides and charges given that the prices are mandated by Congress.

And a bit more about the fact that if he is found to be in conflict of interest, he isn't going to step down.
Watch Louis DeJoy Admit He Doesn’t Know the Price of a Postcard

And some more Q&A:
Rep. Katie Porter Exposes the Dangerous Ignorance of Postmaster General Louis DeJoy


----------



## Beaver101

^


> Who always hire the best. ...


 ... of course, likes attract likes.


----------



## james4beach

bgc_fan said:


> I mean, not asking a lot, but should have some basic idea of the products your organization provides and charges given that the prices are mandated by Congress.


Trump and team are not pro-government. They are people who really don't like government at all, and couldn't care less if it's functioning well, providing services to citizens, or keeping citizens safe.

Unfortunately this is a view shared by many Americans (anti-government).


----------



## calm

It seems to me that Trump and The Boys are telling everybody that when it comes to "Protesters" Trump will Never-Ever negotiate.

The Financial Class have told the protesters to piss off. 

The Upper Class are telling the Lower Class to shut their pie holes and relent. Get Back To Work.

By electing Trump we can be sure the protests will multiply. The more that Trump refuses to negotiate, the more violent the protests will become.

Trump is telling the voters ..... "Vote for me and I am prepared to shoot the protesters on sight."

Biden is quite prepared to kill and maim citizens in the same fashion as Trump, except Biden does not brag about it.


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> The Financial Class have told the protesters to piss off.
> 
> The Upper Class are telling the Lower Class to shut their pie holes and relent. Get Back To Work.


Agree. Very literally, the fat billionaire has told the people to "shut up and get back to work", while _hundreds of thousands_ of them die.

The aristocracy in the USA had better hope that the lower classes don't turn on them. I believe they will continue to use the divide and conquer method, which is what's been used in the last few years to prevent the lower classes from realizing their common aim, and organizing into a single force that turns on the ultra rich.


----------



## calm

james4beach said:


> The aristocracy in the USA had better hope that the lower classes don't turn on them.


I think that the Lower Class are already turning on the aristocracy.

Right now they are burning down local neighbourhoods.
Tomorrow elsewhere.

The only possible way to avoid this confrontation is to print trillions more Dollars and distribute it to the Lower Class. (A trillion dollars per month at a minimum just to maintain the status quo.)


----------



## Eder

Then he landed one of his most powerful lines: “I take it as a personal insult that people would think I would have a 37-year friendship with a racist,” Walker said. “Growing up in the Deep South, I have seen racism up close. I know what it is. And it isn’t Donald Trump.”

Not what the virtue signalers wanted to hear.


----------



## sags

Will Jerry Falwell Jr. give his scheduled speech at the GOP convention, after the breaking scandal of him watching his wife doing the pool boy for years ?


----------



## calm

If it is shown that the guy who is said to have shot 2 or 3 protesters is known as a Trump Supporter .....Could be a pretty tense election for Trump.


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> If it is shown that the guy who is said to have shot 2 or 3 protesters is known as a Trump Supporter .....Could be a pretty tense election for Trump.


Definitely a Trump supporter. Here's a reputable source, regarding Kyle Rittenhouse (the suspected terrorist)

What We Know About Kyle Rittenhouse, The 17-Year-Old Charged In The Kenosha Shootings



> Rittenhouse attended a rally for president Donald Trump in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 30., according to a TikTok he posted from the event, _BuzzFeed News_ first reported.
> 
> Court records list his occupation as a YMCA lifeguard, according to_ CBS News_, and in his now-deleted Facebook profile, Rittenhouse posted several photos supporting Blue Lives Matter as well as a banner photo of himself holding an assault weapon.


Buzzfeed News reports that Rittenhouse was actually in the front row of a Trump rally

Of course he's a Trump / MAGA nut. Did you think he was a feminist or a queer activist or something? How many feminists show up at public demonstrations carrying semiautomatic weapons?

The entire M.O. is that of a Trump cult member and right-wing extremist.


----------



## james4beach

It's no accident that this shooting happened while the Trump people are stoking fears about "law and order" in their Republican convention. Absolutely not an accident that immediately after they gave passionate speeches about how order needs to be brought back to the streets, that the young radical (Rittenhouse), who is pro-Trump and pro-police, picks up his gun, then goes and shoots into a crowded street.

"I'm bringing law and order to 'murica!" - thinks the MAGA moron, as he murders people in the streets.

The Republicans use the law and order storyline as a way to motivate their fearful voter base to show up and vote. Kind of an old trick, started by Nixon and Reagan.

Trump has blood on his hands. He's going to spur more people to commit acts of violence, too. We already know he doesn't care about American lives, otherwise, well, he would be trying to stop the disease outbreak. 180,000 Americans dead. I'm convinced that he has no concern at all for the lives of citizens. I think he'd rather encourage gun fights in the streets (militia attacks) due to the excitement and propaganda it will yield, than risk losing the election.


----------



## calm

The Trump Explanation ....

"We need to protect American citizens from the Radical Terrorists who demand that our politicians enact laws to distribute and share the wealth generated by our society more responsibly and equitably."


----------



## bgc_fan

james4beach said:


> The Republicans use the law and order storyline as a way to motivate their fearful voter base to show up and vote. Kind of an old trick, started by Nixon and Reagan.


The ironic part of the whole campaign is that the Republicans are using the current situation saying that this is what is going to happen if Biden gets elected president... um, did you forget that it is going on now while Trump is president?


----------



## Prairie Guy

There is video evidence that Kyle was shot at first by at least one of the 3 attackers. He was defending himself against an armed mob. Once again only part of the story is told by the far left on this site.

Why is james allowed to call Trump a murdering moron (post #712) with impunity and no sanctions from CMF but other people are not allowed to say that Biden engages in appropriate behaviour when there is actual video evidence of his actions? Video evidence from C-span and several mainstream media outlets?


----------



## Eder

The truth takes time to come out...its taken this long to find out how George Floyd actually died.

Solid work by the New York Times’Christiaan Triebert on what really happened. Perhaps go to the thread to watch all the video.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1298839097923063809


----------



## Prairie Guy

Even far left NYT says he was chased by several people and other shots were fired. At least they admitted that he turned himself in after. Clearly those are not the actions of a murdering thug, but those of a scared teenager forced to defend himself against an armed attack.

One has to wonder why doesn't NYT track any Antifa or BLM thugs that have shot people, many of them innocent?


----------



## calm

Prairie Guy said:


> .


I don't think that this shooter intended to hurt anybody.

I think he just dressed up like John Wayne and he meant to do good with a "Show of Force" only. I don't think the guy ever dreamed that he would actually shoot the weapon on a downtown street.

People need to get just as angry about racism and inequality within our society as the Capitalist's loud complaints about property destruction..
----
President Putin has already said in the recent past that negotiating with Team Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon: the demented bird walks all over the chessboard, shits indiscriminately, knocks over pieces, declares victory, then runs away.


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> I don't think that this shooter intended to hurt anybody.


Yeah, I don't know. He took an illegal firearm, with lots of ammo, to a large public gathering.

Also interesting to see our resident radical @Prairie Guy immediately defending the extremist who just murdered two people. PG is, by the way, a MAGA cult member - so that gives you some insight into the warped sense of reality of the Trump supporters.


----------



## calm

A Republican Pledge of Allegiance

Upon hearing that the Republican Convention this year would have no actual platform, just a pledge of loyalty and support to the whims and person of Donald J. Trump…
I pledge allegiance
To the Trump,
And his polarized states of America.
And to all the lackeys
Enabling his reign:
One hustle, under Don,
Unindictable,
With fraudulence
And cruelty
For all.
By Hugh Iglarsh
August 27, 2020


----------



## Eder

Actually the gun is fine to own and carry openly in the US. It would be illegal now in Canada.

Imo the fools chasing a guy with a gun show little regard for their own lives in an effort to try assault a kid. Unfortunately Kenosha is not Portland... people were out armed & in force to protect property. Police made a mistake isolating the kid from his friends making it open season on him.

Unless some law & order is restored this is most likely the tip of the start of vigilantism and will play into extremists hands. 

Thank God we have RCMP in Canada.


----------



## Eder

Oh...bit more news...the guy the kid wounded had a gun in his hand about to off the kid...turns out he is a felon & previously banned from owning firearms.


----------



## sags

The kid was underage and not allowed to "open carry" a weapon, but what is a law among NRA friends ?

Give a bunch of people weapons and people get shot..........who would have thought it possible ?


----------



## sags

I hope Trump ends the convention by singing "My Way".........._"And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain"._


----------



## calm

Tweet:
By Anne Coulter
"I want Karl Rittenhouse for President"
"A bodyguard"
August 26, 2020


https://uziiw38pmyg1ai60732c4011-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/dropzone/2020/08/EgY3UzvWAAEmlhL-768x463.jpg


----------



## sags

Kyle Rittenhouse isn't going anywhere.

The defense that he was protecting himself or someone else might be interesting, if there was any evidence that it were true.

The police are reporting that Rittenhouse called a friend and said he shot someone.....and then went on to shoot two others.

That blows the defense theory right out of the water.

The facts are that he was in illegal possession of a weapon and had crossed state lines and shot people. Then he crossed state lines and returned home.

There appear to be a bunch of felonies mixed up in all that, including first degree felonies for intentional murder.

Rittenhouse will soon be discarded by the "law and order" alt right when he is no longer useful to them.

He best hope he gets sent back to Wisconsin for trial where the death penalty was been abolished in 1853.

Indiana, where he is currently detained retains the death penalty, with their last execution held in 2009.

Rittenhouse is going to spend the rest of his natural life in prison.


----------



## sags

calm said:


> Tweet:
> By Anne Coulter
> "I want Karl Rittenhouse for President"
> "A bodyguard"
> August 26, 2020
> 
> 
> https://uziiw38pmyg1ai60732c4011-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/dropzone/2020/08/EgY3UzvWAAEmlhL-768x463.jpg


How sad that Rittenhouse is just a joke to the alt right.


----------



## james4beach

sags said:


> Kyle Rittenhouse isn't going anywhere.
> 
> The defense that he was protecting himself or someone else might be interesting, if there was any evidence that it were true.
> 
> The police are reporting that Rittenhouse called a friend and said he shot someone.....and then went on to shoot two others.
> 
> That blows the defense theory right out of the water.
> 
> *The facts are that he was in illegal possession of a weapon and had crossed state lines and shot people. Then he crossed state lines and returned home.*


He's a domestic extremist / terrorist, just like all those before him who carried out similar, ideological murders for far-right causes.



sags said:


> How sad that Rittenhouse is just a joke to the alt right.


It's because many of them have been radicalized and are firmly in the "extremist" camp.

An extremist has such an ideologically driven, warped sense of reality that he can watch a man with a semiautomatic gun blast away people in public and still rationalize it.

These are dangerous people. If you know someone who defends far-right violence and shows signs of radicalization, you should report him to the RCMP. We've had some devastating far-right terrorist attacks in Canada/US/New Zealand, and just last month one of these guys tried to assassinate the Prime Minister. There is an immediate, present-day threat from these guys, and they are fed by the dangerous American influence. Be vigilant and report people who are radicalized:

Link to RCMP: National Security Information Network | Royal Canadian Mounted Police


----------



## sags

One of the guys that Rittenhouse shot (wounded in the arm) was holding a gun, according to police.

The wounded guy's lawyer on CNN refused to answer the question if he had a gun.

Even as a "victim" he already has a lawyer so I suspect it is because he is in serious trouble of his own for illegal gun possession.

Nevertheless, Rittenhouse killed a guy before encountering that man, and killed another one after he shot and wounded the man........so the timeline isn't good for Rittenhouse.

The last guy Rittenhouse killed tried to knock him out with a skateboard but Rittenhouse shot and killed him. Fox News has been ridiculously stupid on the fact the guy had a skateboard with some actually saying a skateboard is a weapon which in the hands of a trained assassin could cut someone's head off.

I don't see much of a viable defense for Rittenhouse, and he will likely try to work a plea deal. I doubt the DA will agree to one though.

About the only bargaining power that Rittenhouse has is to agree to a plea guilty in exchange for being put in a prison close to his family.


----------



## calm

Another "Bad Apple" story.


----------



## james4beach

sags said:


> One of the guys that Rittenhouse shot (wounded in the arm) was holding a gun, according to police.


Who cares? A lot of people own guns in the US.

Imagine you're on a public street. You own a handgun for protection (your right as an American). You see this wild-eyed terrorist carrying a semiautomatic weapon, and he's just shot and killed someone. Remember, people were screaming that this man just shot someone.

The terrorist is coming down the street with his weapon aimed at the public, on a shooting rampage. He's coming towards you.

This is a no-brainer. What do gun advocates *always* say? What do Republicans *always* say? You take out your handgun and stop the terrorist!

People like @Eder lack all critical thinking, brainwashed by Fox News's extremist propaganda. You see a shooter on the rampage and you are about to be killed. Of course you smack him with your skateboard! You try to shoot him, hit him, stab him, you do whatever you can to stop the terrorist.

In fact it would be great if a crowd swarmed him to try and pin down and disarm the terrorist. Which is exactly what this crowd tried to do.












> About the only bargaining power that Rittenhouse has is to agree to a plea guilty in exchange for being put in a prison close to his family


He'll be fine. He's white, and has connections to police ... that's usually a free pass. Remember, the police let him just walk past them fresh after he killed two people.


----------



## james4beach

And a good article on the huge difference (in the US) when society looks at a white radical like Rittenhouse versus say a brown/black radical.

Vigilante, volunteer, terrorist: how the US media covers Kyle Rittenhouse

Having actually worked with law enforcement, including the DHS myself, I can tell you that there's a massive blind spot for white extremists. Because most of the people in charge are right-leaning old white men, they have a strong tendency to ignore white extremist threats. It's literally a blind spot: *they don't even see* the guys. It's a problem in the RCMP as well.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Rittenhouse was being chased and shot at by 3 thugs, at least one of which was armed and shooting at him. He was forced to defend himself. The video evidence shows this very clearly. james doesn't like the facts so he melts down and calls Fox news extremist propaganda for being factually accurate.

Just like a beaten wife who defends her husband, james will be lied to every day by the media and defend them until his last dying breath.


----------



## james4beach

Prairie Guy said:


> If this is true, the attack on Rittenhouse was a deliberate attempt to murder him:


No wonder you're losing your mind, PG. This web site you linked to (Summit News) appears to be round-the-clock MAGA, anti-liberal coverage. It's a far right conspiracy theory web site and is believed to be authored by Paul Joseph Watson.

Basically, you're consuming extremist content which is radicalizing you.


----------



## Prairie Guy

The footage is very clear. Rittenhouse was attacked by armed and violent thugs. You could watch the footage with an open mind but instead you attack the media source. You're the one who has lost their mind, not me.


----------



## sags

Which footage ? There is a lot of video that has surfaced and has been examined by experts, notably at the New York Times paper.

It appears that this is how it all started.

Some people started a fire in a dumpster and were pushing it towards the auto garage. Rittenhouse arrived with a fire extinguisher and put out the fire.
Some protestors were angry he put out the fire, and one guy starts chasing Rittenhouse. He is a faster runner than Rittenhouse and nearly catches him.
When he gets close, somebody nearby fires a shot from a pistol into the air (the muzzle flash is seen on video), and Rittenhouse reacts and turns and starts firing at the guy. He then runs away while calling a friend on his cellphone and says that he killed someone.

According to autopsy reports, the guy was hit by multiple bullets.

After that people start chasing Rittenhouse as "a shooter" and the rest is seen on video.

Was this self defense ? I think the laws of Wisconsin, which are more than a little vague are going to be the key issues.

The past of the victims has been examined and now there is video of Rittenhouse assaulting a young girl.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/iiz38q

There is a reporter, who has worked extensively in war zones following Rittenhouse, as he was in the midst of an interview with him when Rittenhouse was told by a fellow militia member to go with him because there was a problem. The reporter followed the whole chain of events and can be seen in the videos.

If nothing else, it shows the dangers of having untrained militia members milling around and acting as quasi-law enforcement.

It also reveals that everyone running around with guns does NOT create a safer environment, as the NRA has often claimed.


----------



## calm

I think that Trudeau recognizes that huge civil unrest is going to arrive here in Canada.
Trudeau is going to call an election with the hopes of gaining a majority. It would be near impossible to hold an election in the middle of countrywide riots or to deal with the riots with a minority government.

I think the angst across America against Trump is just tremendous and if ever it appears Trump might win the election in November, (through Gerrymandering and vote suppression) all of Trump's tax documents will be leaked in order to crush Trump.

Just like in Canada ..... The military will not (can not) be called onto the streets while any leader enjoys less than majority popular support.


----------



## sags

Someone made an interesting comment on the video of Rittenhouse attacking the girl and then getting beaten up. His glasses were damaged in the melee.

Note that he wasn't wearing glasses in the video in Kenosha. Was the fight video the same day or thereabouts and that is why he didn't have his glasses ?

What is his vision without his glasses ? Maybe he couldn't even see what he was shooting at ?


----------



## sags

The gap between Biden and Trump is closing. Harry Enten, who is pretty good at data analysis......says Trump could very well win the electoral vote.

It all depends on who wins Florida.

If Biden wins Florida, he has a 95% chance of winning the election. If Biden loses Florida, he has less than a 50% chance of winning the election.

All eyes on Florida...........


----------



## Eder

I tend to agree...the Democrats are acting like our Conservatives & Sheer...losing an election in spite of the other leaders obvious incompetence,corruption,and nepotism.

*the overwhelming majority of Americans, including Black voters, are opposed to the organized anarchy – looting, vandalism, mayhem, and murdering of innocent people – explicitly and implicitly cheered on by a considerable cabal of Democratic politicians, while an even large number simply turned a blind eye *










US election 2020: Trump handed huge boost as Biden makes major mistake - Exclusive poll


DONALD TRUMP is on course for a clear victory in the US Presidential election after he opened up a three point lead over Joe Biden in an exclusive poll for the Sunday Express.




www.express.co.uk


----------



## Eder

james4beach said:


> And a good article on the huge difference (in the US) when society looks at a white radical like Rittenhouse versus say a brown/black radical.
> 
> Vigilante, volunteer, terrorist: how the US media covers Kyle Rittenhouse
> 
> Having actually worked with law enforcement, including the DHS myself, I can tell you that there's a massive blind spot for white extremists. Because most of the people in charge are right-leaning old white men, they have a strong tendency to ignore white extremist threats. It's literally a blind spot: *they don't even see* the guys. It's a problem in the RCMP as well.


I guess this BLM activist murdered someone today in Portland...how bout an explanation? or more pure BS.









I won't link to the murder video but this guy with a black accomplice hunted down & murdered a Trump supporter.


----------



## james4beach

Eder said:


> I won't link to the murder video but this guy with a black accomplice hunted down & murdered a Trump supporter.


I don't think reddit or twitter are the appropriate places to find suspects in crimes, but the police should absolutely locate and charge anyone who has killed a person!


----------



## sags

Social media is efficient though.

Look at all the video coming out of the latest cop incidents and gun shootings in the US.

People can't hide anymore. Post a picture of a suspect and somebody knows who they are.

Which makes me wonder why nobody has found that guy who owned the Vancouver bitcoin exchange.

If he is somewhere, or his wife or buddy are with him........social media can find them.


----------



## Eder

james4beach said:


> I don't think reddit or twitter are the appropriate places to find suspects in crimes, but the police should absolutely locate and charge anyone who has killed a person!


*A family member also identified him as a man captured in photos and video seen leaving the shooting scene shortly before 9 p.m. Saturday.
Aaron Danielson, a supporter of the conservative group Patriot Prayer, was shot in the chest and died in the street.*

The murderer was previously arrested during BLM protests for various charges but they were dropped for no reason. Oh...and it was sleuths on 4chan that nabbed the guy that prompted police to begin investigating or he most likely would have walked again.

Hope that helps...










Man under investigation in fatal shooting after pro-Trump rally allegedly took loaded gun to earlier Portland protest


Michael Reinoehl was accused of carrying a loaded gun to an earlier Portland protest.




www.oregonlive.com


----------



## calm

Are Trump supporters going to start attacking mail delivery trucks? The mail trucks are Crime Labs.

George W. Bush had shamed most of America when it had to admit to torture and W still won a 2nd term.


----------



## bgc_fan

Well, we know who is responsible for inducing people to do voter fraud:

"They are going to have to check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way because if it tabulates, then they won't be able to do that," Trump said, apparently urging residents to test their state's mail-in voting system. "So let them send it in, and let them go vote. And if their system is as good as they say it is, then obviously they won't be able to vote [on Election Day]. If it isn't tabulated, they will be able to vote. So that's the way it is, and that's what they should do."

"I'm not happy about it," the president said of expansions of mail-in voting during the coronavirus pandemic. "At the same time, we're in court with a lot of it. We're going to see if it can be stopped. But send your ballots, send them in strong, whether it's solicited or unsolicited. The absentees are fine. But go to vote and if they haven't counted it, you can vote. That's the way I view it."









'The President Just Committed a Felony': Trump Tells NC Residents to Vote Twice, Openly Encouraging Voter Fraud


"Voter fraud is nearly nonexistent. And the only one encouraging it is Donald Trump, in a desperate attempt to create chaos and sow doubt."




www.commondreams.org





It's pretty hard to spin this, he's telling people to use the mail-in ballots and then go to the polls and vote just in case the mail-in ballots aren't counted.


----------



## calm

I think that if the American People were honest with themselves, they would need to admit that the policies which they are interested in are not being discussed.
All this outrageous commentary by Trump and Biden is to chew off another day of election coverage where nothing substantive is being discussed.


----------



## bgc_fan

Here's Fox News criticizing Trump... I mean Obama.


----------



## calm

bgc_fan said:


> Here's Fox News criticizing Trump... I mean Obama.
> .


I caught a few interviews this past week and where Roland S. Martin gave his opinion on the protests. The guy was pretty sharp. 
I remember him when he had a show on CNN.

Trump is screaming about Law and Order and then yesterday imposed sanctions on the two top officials at the International Criminal Court in retaliation for the Hague-based ICC's ongoing investigation into war crimes allegedly committed by U.S. forces and others in Afghanistan during the so-called War on Terror.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> Trump is screaming about Law and Order and then yesterday imposed sanctions on the two top officials at the International Criminal Court in retaliation for the Hague-based ICC's ongoing investigation into war crimes allegedly committed by U.S. forces and others in Afghanistan during the so-called War on Terror.


Well... that's kind of ongoing, regardless of who is the President. Americans don't feel that they should play by any rules that others have. It's why they have never signed on the ICC is don't recognize their power.


----------



## calm

Conspiracy & Class Power
Another great lecture by Michael Parenti telling us about the "mythical" conspiracy that no one today dare say out loud for fear of being accused of wearing 'tinfoil" hats. That guy JFK said there were conspiracies? That guy Eisenhower said there were conspiracies? Ah, what the **** did they know anyway? I watch FOX and MSNBC and they tell us all that only "nuts" and "fruits" believe in conspiracies. I wouldn't believe in conspiracies either, especially if I was part of it! Parenti is no "lefty" lover either, he didn't trust Bush, remember "let us not entertain conspiracy theories" about 911, and he doesn't trust Obama either, "what the banks did was unfortunately legal". Oh yeah smart ***? When is "fraud" legal? When is laundering drug money legal? Oh sure he doesn't like banks so he gave everyone who got foreclosed on illegally 2000 bucks to go blow at SlaveMart on some slave labor produced Chinese goods. It's so terrible how they treat those people, but hey, we'll be happy to buy your goods. Left or Right, they both sicken me and make me want to puke my guts up when I hear people apologize for one side or the other, Disgusting vermin.
----
Parenti says, “conspiracy is a very real thing, in fact it’s a concept IN LAW. People go to jail for it! Conspiracy means ‘planning of acting together in secret, esp. for an unlawful, or harmful purpose, often with the use of illegal means.” And it just gets better and better! 
Berkeley, CA
By Michael John Parenti
April 02, 1993








Conspiracy & Class Power — Alternative Radio


Class and power are closely correlated, That societies have a ruling class is derided as passe Marxist rhetoric. But to deny its existence is folly. Class can be measured by one’s income and savings, and ownership of stocks, bonds and property. Power is more difficult to calibrate. It is the...




www.alternativeradio.org












Michael Parenti - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




(YouTube Video)


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> It's pretty hard to spin this, he's telling people to use the mail-in ballots and then go to the polls and vote just in case the mail-in ballots aren't counted.


Trump will win the election, then magically thousands of mail in ballots will show up over the next week or so in close states changing the results from Republican to Democrat. Just like how Al Franken stole his seat and got away with it.









Exclusive: Bloomberg group warns Trump will appear to win big on election night


Way more Democrats will vote by mail than Republicans given partisan differences about fears of the coronavirus.




 www.axios.com


----------



## calm

You would think that after 400 years that America would of figured out how to have a secure election.


----------



## like_to_retire

calm said:


> You would think that after 400 years that America would of figured out how to have a secure election.


Why do you think that? Things change and we are always having to adapt. The method of voting by mail is a brand new twist.

Think about mail, it was only 160 years ago that we delivered mail by pony express. Eventually that was closed because we invented the telegraph. Now that was a transition.

ltr


----------



## Eder

It seems that Trump wants the mail in states tested to ensure voters can't vote twice. I would be leery as hell if my vote went thru twice, hopefully there are safeguards in place for mail in including preventing dead people,illegals & pets from affecting outcomes.


----------



## calm

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’
By Jeffrey Goldberg
September 03, 2020








Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’


The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.




www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Eder

Eder said:


> I guess this BLM activist murdered someone today in Portland...how bout an explanation? or more pure BS.
> View attachment 20568
> 
> 
> I won't link to the murder video but this guy with a black accomplice hunted down & murdered a Trump supporter.











Portland shooting suspect killed during attempted arrest by U.S. federal task force


Michael Reinoehl, 48, was the prime suspect in the killing of Patriot Prayer supporter Aaron ’Jay’ Danielson on Saturday




www.theglobeandmail.com


----------



## sags

I think people should provide ID and vote in person. If they have to spread out the election over a few days........what is the rush?

The transfer of power doesn't take place into late January anyways. If people can't be bothered to secure ID and get out and vote that is their choice.

Personally, I think going to the polling station and seeing fellow Canadians also voting, promotes a feeling of democracy in action.

I don't think that can be replaced by mail-in or online voting. Not everything needs to change.


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> I think people should provide ID and vote in person. If they have to spread out the election over a few days........what is the rush?
> 
> The transfer of power doesn't take place into late January anyways. If people can't be bothered to secure ID and get out and vote that is their choice.
> 
> Personally, I think going to the polling station and seeing fellow Canadians also voting, promotes a feeling of democracy in action.
> 
> I don't think that can be replaced by mail-in or online voting. Not everything needs to change.


I agree. If you can go to Walmart, buy groceries, or engage in a protest then you can vote in person. But there's no need to spread it out over a few days...just open a few more polling booths if required.


----------



## sags

I can't believe the two candidates running for President of the US.

Trump is going around saying stupid stuff about veterans and Joe Biden was in Kenosha and quipped....."they are going to shoot me".

Two senile old men battling for the most powerful position in the world..........unbelievable.


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’


It's really unbelievable that society permits a billionaire to saunter around, calling other Americans losers. These are the people he represents!


----------



## calm

Lots of stuff happening in foreign policy and military.

I am quite convinced that America is going to abandon the United Nations completely and declare that NATO members will police the world.

75 years of legalities and understandings swept away ....

Breaking international law (UN World Court) by moving embassy to Jerusalem.
Breaking international law giving Golan Heights to Israel.
Breaking international law annexing the West Bank.

Walked away from funding the World Health Organization.

Walked away from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) and United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in October 2017 and June 2018 respectively.

Sanctioning the ICC.

Before the final collapse of empire Israel must become the NATO of the Middle East.

Iran must be bombed back to the Stone Age, like all countries surrounding the Jewish State after WWII.


----------



## Beaver101

james4beach said:


> It's really unbelievable that society permits a billionaire to saunter around, calling other Americans losers. These are the people he represents!


 .. at this point, you should realize the Dump doesn't represent anyone except himself. Comes November, he'll be considered America's EPIC LOSER.


----------



## calm

Foreign Influence and Interference of American Elections ......

When you hear the media chatter on about how this race is going to depend on Florida ..... President Trump needs 30 or 35 percent of Jewish vote in Florida.

If Trump can get 30 percent of Jewish vote, Biden will lose — GOP strategist

.... 90 percent of American Jews are devoted to a Jewish state and Donald Trump wants a White House signing ceremony for the UAE-Israel deal as close to the election as he can get it.

President Trump will increase his share of the Jewish vote over 2016, I absolutely guarantee that. That’s why the RJC is spending $10 million for the largest outreach effort ever undertaken in the Jewish community…
----
Trump is beating Biden on Latino outreach, owns the Cuban vote, as well the formidable Jewish vote in crucial Florida.
----
It’s impossible for the Democrats to win a close election if we’re getting 30 to 35 percent of the Jewish vote. We saw it with Governor De Santis and I think we’re going to see it again in 2020.
.... Kamala Harris had a conference call with 1800 Jewish Democratic donors and assured them Biden-Harris will show “unwavering support” for Israel.
----
The Democratic leadership is terrified by the Israel question because they are afraid it will alienate Jewish donors, and yes, also Jewish voters in Florida (where Jews make up 3 percent of the population) or Pennsylvania (2.3 percent). Though it’s hard to believe Jewish voters would make a difference in Ohio (1.3 percent), and Michigan (0.9).
----
44% of American Jews are liberal, much higher than the overall 25% among the total population, making Jews the most liberal of any major religious group we identify. Another 36% of Jews are moderates, with 20% describing themselves as conservative — compared with 37% of the total population…
Our aggregate from January through August [2019] shows a 29% Trump job approval rating among Jews, with 69% disapproval. Over this same period, Trump’s overall job approval rating was 42%….
By Philip Weiss
September 02, 2020








If Trump can get 30 percent of Jewish vote, Biden will lose — GOP strategist


There’s a reason Joe Biden is running so far right on Israel. He fears Trump upping share of Jewish vote in battleground states and winning them.




mondoweiss.net


----------



## calm

Respect For The Military .....

In 1964, a Democratic president lied America into a war ......

The Gulf of Tonkin incident resulted in the passage by US Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted US President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.

United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that the August 04 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened.

And worse ..... Five Years later, in 1969, the CIA knew that the war was unwinnable.

US did not withdraw the troops until 1975.

For 10 years America treated it's military like suckers and losers. The war began with a lie and continued for another 5 years after knowing the war could not be won.


----------



## james4beach

Here are some insightful comments from notable Republicans

Lindsey Graham, speaking to Trump's supporters in 2015:

"I don't know who you are and I don't know why you like this guy. I think what you like about him, he appears to be strong and the rest of us are weak. He's a very successful businessman and he's gonna make everything great. He's gonna take all the problems of the world and put 'em in a box and make your life better. That's what he's selling. Here's what you're buying. He's a race-baiting, xenophobic religious bigot. He doesn't represent my party. He doesn't represent the values that the men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for... He's the ISIL man of the year."

Mitt Romney talking about Trump in 2016:

"If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished . . . Think of Donald Trump’s personal qualities. The bullying, the greed, the showing off, the misogyny, the absurd third grade theatrics . . . There’s plenty of evidence that Mr. Trump is a con man, a fake."


----------



## james4beach

Eder said:


> I guess this BLM activist murdered someone today in Portland...how bout an explanation? or more pure BS.


It looks like your right wing extremist buddies are stalking and threatening the suspect's family members:

"We woke up to death threats, that's how we found out. We received messages all day yesterday. Some said 'blood for blood,' another said our whole family was in danger and that 'someone's gotta die.'" Among the texts was one to the family member's spouse with "*a photo of me and the text, 'Patriot Prayer says hello*,'" the family member said.​​A good illustration of how the Patriot Prayer gang and other MAGA gangsters threaten America. These are death threats from Trump's goons. The police don't stop them and the president actually encourages them, almost daily.

Eder, what do you say about Patriot Prayer threatening to kill this family? You said the country needs law & order. But let me guess... in your twisted version of of "law and order", the right wing extremists get to do anything they want.

Eder's "law and order" means that armed gangsters (as long as they are white right wingers) can harass, intimidate, and launch attacks as they see fit.


----------



## sags

Trump hired a fake Obama so he could berate him in a video. Trump has been nuts for a long time.

It is time the "Generals" that worked for Trump step up and tell Americans what they know as fact.

They don't step up to defend him, which is an indication they don't disagree........but they need to put it all out into the media.

Americans would be crazy to re-elect Trump. They would be better off with an empty chair behind the Resolute desk in the Oval Office.


----------



## Eder

Yes...murder on either side is wrong of course, both groups are morons but it was Antifa that executed an innocent guy in cold blood...I think BLM is winning the body count...especially if you count executed cops. But carry on change the theme to a more empathetic light towards murderers.


----------



## calm

Vehicle dumping the mail was not a USPS vehicle .....

Surveillance video shows bags of USPS mail being dumped in Glendale spa parking lot
By Rick Chambers
September 03, 2020








Surveillance video shows bags of USPS mail being dumped in Glendale spa parking lot


Piles of mail were found in two separate locations in Glendale Thursday morning, including one incident where a rented truck was captured on surveillance video dumping bags of unopened letters and …




ktla.com


----------



## calm

Trump is Toast .... His orange crop of hair was to camouflage an Ostrich head in the sand

'Play it down': Trump admits to concealing the true threat of coronavirus in new Woodward book
By Jamie Gangel, Jeremy Herb and Elizabeth Stuart
September 09, 2020








'Play it down': Trump admits to concealing the true threat of coronavirus in new Woodward book


President Donald Trump admitted he knew weeks before the first confirmed US coronavirus death that the virus was dangerous, airborne, highly contagious and "more deadly than even your strenuous flus," and that he repeatedly played it down publicly, according to legendary journalist Bob Woodward...




www.cnn.com


----------



## calm

FOX News is saying that maybe Biden was getting National Security Briefings because he was Democratic candidate.
This would suggest that Biden was getting the same Intelligence briefings as Trump was getting?


----------



## sags

The Woodward tapes are unbelievable. What was Trump thinking talking to Woodward ?

Some people who know him well say it was to stroke his massive ego, and that Woodward was crafty to talk to Trump privately after hours when no staff was around to stop him. He is totally off his rocker when he is alone.

Now Trump will try to spin it that he was preventing panic, but he held large political rallies with his followers, made fun of wearing masks, and was continually pushing to re-open economies while criticizing Democratic governors and mayors for shutting down businesses and large events. He even lobbied for college sports to start up again. He talked nonsense about quick cures and the virus being no worse than the flu.

Think of the motorcycle rally in Sturgis from which there have been 200,000 infections. Would that rally have been held if Trump leveled with the people ?

If Trump wanted to prevent panic he could have told people the government was taking all necessary precautions and to heed the medical expert advice.

The Woodward book reveals many other things as well. General Mattis said Trump was unhinged and unfit to lead. He said he used to go to the Cathedral to pray Trump didn't start a war. Dr. Fauci said Trump's attention span was negative......below zero. There is much more to be released to the public.

One question though.....if Bob Woodward knew all this, why did he keep it quiet for so long while 200,000 Americans died and millions were infected and perhaps permanently injured ?

What times we live in...........


----------



## sags

calm said:


> FOX News is saying that maybe Biden was getting National Security Briefings because he was Democratic candidate.
> This would suggest that Biden was getting the same Intelligence briefings as Trump was getting?


They don't get full briefings until they are elected. Until then, the nominee will get some partial briefings. The Presidential briefings are for the President only.

Those daily Presidential briefings are top level classified briefings. I suspect most people would be eager to read them to see what is really going on.

Odd that Trump showed no interest and wouldn't even read them. The security aides had to give him a brief verbal summary and even then he didn't listen.

I think historians will have to note that Americans actually voted in a President with a grade 5 level of intelligence.

Yes it's true Virginia.........anyone can really be the President.

p.s. Don't forget that 4 years ago Biden was the VP, so he is probably fairly up to date on a lot of the intelligence anyways.


----------



## sags

Oh boy......Fox News is saying that Trump revealed the highly classified information that the US has developed a top secret weapons system unlike the world has ever seen before.

Fox News obtained confirmation from other sources, who expressed concern and dismay the President would reveal national secrets.

One can bet the Chinese and Russians will be hard at work now trying to find out the details.


----------



## calm

Bob Woodward had this information last January and said nothing to the public.
Meaning that Woodward (The Free Press) joined the government with the fraud.
I guess Bob Woodward is a CIA agent or operative.


----------



## sags

He wouldn't have known back then how it was going to play out. At that time there were a few thousand infections and a few hundred deaths.

Perhaps he should have come out earlier than he has though. Two hundred thousand dead Americans...........maybe some could have been prevented.

Still doesn't excuse Trump though. He knew and still went ahead with rallies etc.


----------



## sags

Trump divulging a new top secret weapon creates a very dangerous situation for the world.

America's enemies will now be forced to consider a "pre-emptive" first strike, as their defences may be unable to stop an attack underway against them.

The "first strike" policy has been debated for many years, as many experts consider it and a miscalculation by one side to be the most likely cause of a global nuclear war.


----------



## sags

It is a conundrum.

If Trump resigns he can say he didn't lose the election and would have won if he had stayed.

On the other hand, if Trump resigns the Republicans might replace him with someone who could actually win.

I don't know if I should wish he resigns or not.


----------



## james4beach

Trump admitting everything on tape won't change anything. It's hardly news that this guy betrays his country, fails to protect America, etc. He harms America _virtually every month_.

Trump's followers are a cult. These cults are not rational and they take the word of the dear leader above anything else. My point is, this doesn't really change anything.

If you're the kind of person who doesn't care that Trump abuses his power to reward his friends, doesn't care that he endorses terrorist movements and dangerous radicals, and doesn't care that he openly invites foreign powers to interfere in the election... then you're NOT going to care that he deliberately downplayed the virus and caused thousands of people to die unnecessarily.


----------



## calm

In perspective ..... Trump got his first intelligence briefing on Covid-19 January 28th.
China travel restrictions on January 31st.
March 29th, shutdown.

During this time, Trump held six rallies when knowing the virus was airborne.

Trump says that he did not want to panic the public, and chose instead to give everybody a false sense of security in a matter of life and death.

At the same time, Trump uses panic of the public to win the upcoming election with rants of anarchists coming to the suburbs.

Bob Woodward is with CBS 60 minutes this weekend I think.


----------



## Prairie Guy

james4beach said:


> then you're NOT going to care that he deliberately downplayed the virus and caused thousands of people to die unnecessarily.


Trump downplayed it to prevent panic. New York officials publicly said it was safe, lectured people to go out in public, and then sent thousands of Covid positive people back to care homes to infect the entire home. As a result, 10's of thousands died unnecessarily. that's not Trump's fault.

You fall for every lie you're told.


----------



## bgc_fan

james4beach said:


> Trump admitting everything on tape won't change anything. It's hardly news that this guy betrays his country, fails to protect America, etc. He harms America _virtually every month_.
> 
> Trump's followers are a cult. These cults are not rational and they take the word of the dear leader above anything else. My point is, this doesn't really change anything.


That's the funniest(?) part of the whole thing. Instead of concentrating on the fact that Trump willfully lied about the situation, you have all his defenders going:

1. It's all Woodward's fault for not publishing this immediately - as if that matters, what would have happened if he did? Trump would simply keep lying.
2. Blame Lindsay Graham for allowing the interviews to occur - because we all know Trump lies and if he isn't kept under wraps, he will say stupid things. Fox's Tucker Carlson blames Lindsey Graham for Trump's Bob Woodward interview, suggests sabotage 
3. He is downplaying to avoid panic - yeah, that's his style, someone who kept talking about caravans of migrants invading America and having MS-13 members move into the suburbs is someone who wants to calm the American people.

In other words, completely avoiding the fact that Trump knew about the severity, did nothing about it for months, and told the American people, don't worry, it will go away by April, I hope. And the fact that he made it political since it was initially affecting states that had Democratic governors, and letting it go so that they can shoulder the blame. Of course, virus doesn't exactly respect geographic boundaries and now the states with the biggest growth are the ones with Republican governors. Coronavirus Maps: How Severe Is Your State's Outbreak?


----------



## Eder

Lying is pathetic...how bout this wopper..."the budget will balance itself" Hate to live in a country where my leader lies to me.


----------



## james4beach

Eder said:


> Lying is pathetic.


Lying is bad. But dismantling democracy and then being so delinquent that you cause tens of thousands of people to die -- is unforgivable.

There's still a good chance that Trump won't leave office, if he loses the election. Trump is not a fan of democracy.

Trump is the worst thing to happen to the USA in a long time. Just the damage he's doing to their government institutions is going to take decades to recover.


----------



## calm

We were all told that Russia helped elect Trump.

I think that Trump has caused more damage to the country then Putin and The Boys could ever dream of.

There is a pandemic and the leader can not be trusted.
What a predicament?

Would it not be funny to see Donald Trump and Edward Snowden as Russian neighbours?


----------



## bgc_fan

Eder said:


> Lying is pathetic...how bout this wopper..."the budget will balance itself" Hate to live in a country where my leader lies to me.


Well you love living in a country where you take things out of context to prove your point. Let's go with the full quote:
"The commitment needs to be a commitment to grow the economy and the budget will balance itself," 

So if you grow the economy you get increased tax revenue which CAN lead to the budget to balance itself.

But hey, it must be a Liberal thing, and no self-respecting Conservative would ever say that right?

Oh wait: One thing Justin Trudeau and Stephen Harper agree on
“If you look out into the medium term, the effect is okay so that we can balance the budget in the medium term—and that is around 2014-2015 or so, *depending on the degree of economic growth*,” Flaherty said.

I mean you could go even further back to the paragon of Conservatives like Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan spent much of 1981 and 1982 claiming that economic growth would balance the budget.


----------



## james4beach

bgc_fan said:


> Well you love living in a country where you take things out of context to prove your point.


These guys (@Eder @Prairie Guy and @MrMatt ) mimic the techniques of the Republicans / far right.

At this point I could probably code up a robot that talks exactly like these guys. It's extremely predictable. Criticize anything that aligns with their camp, and they will immediately throw out a non sequitur. It's either a deliberate deflection technique, or shows that they are so obsessed with their gripes about lefties that they can't follow any train of thought without whining about the left.

This is a Republican and far-right technique


----------



## MrMatt

james4beach said:


> These guys (@Eder @Prairie Guy and @MrMatt ) mimic the techniques of the Republicans / far right.
> 
> At this point I could probably code up a robot that talks exactly like these guys. It's extremely predictable. Criticize anything that aligns with their camp, and they will immediately throw out a non sequitur. It's either a deliberate deflection technique, or shows that they are so obsessed with their gripes about lefties that they can't follow any train of thought without whining about the left.
> 
> This is a Republican and far-right technique


Except I'm not republic or far right. What's my camp?

The anti racist, anti violence, anti rape, anti sexist camp, isn't that one we should ALL strive for?

Just because I think the racism, violence and rape culture of the modern left is morally repugnant doesn't make me "far right".


----------



## Eder

Dismantling democracy sounds like a Trudeau thing...shut down parliament to escape corruption allegations. 

At any rate pigeon hole me where ever you like, I know where I've pigeon holed you ...thank God my kids and grandkids are normal.


----------



## james4beach

MrMatt said:


> Just because I think the racism, violence and rape culture of the modern left is morally repugnant doesn't make me "far right".


You are far right. You are strongly opposed to modern liberal values. You can't even write a sentence without loading it with your propaganda.

One giveaway that you're far right is that you constantly accuse the liberals of the same things your movement is known for; you're projecting. Look at what you just did. The far right has a serious problem with racism, violence, and misogyny and so you project it back at your enemies (the liberals).

Then a moment later @Eder replied with the same schtick ("Dismantling democracy sounds like a Trudeau thing"). Exact same style, as is often found among Trump people and Fox News and which has been adopted by the far right in Canada as well.

You're definitely far right, @MrMatt and you know it.


----------



## Eder

I was quoting you James. Do you think shutting down parliament is democratic now?


----------



## MrMatt

james4beach said:


> You are far right. You are strongly opposed to modern liberal values. You can't even write a sentence without loading it with your propaganda.
> 
> One giveaway that you're far right is that you constantly accuse the liberals of the same things your movement is known for; you're projecting. Look at what you just did. The far right has a serious problem with racism, violence, and misogyny and so you project it back at your enemies (the liberals).
> 
> Then a moment later @Eder replied with the same schtick ("Dismantling democracy sounds like a Trudeau thing"). Exact same style, as is often found among Trump people and Fox News and which has been adopted by the far right in Canada as well.
> 
> You're definitely far right, @MrMatt and you know it.


You can't seem to articulate a single value that I actually hold that puts me "far right".
Yes, I've "got a problem" with racism, violence and misogyny, I think we should all be working to eradicate them. 

Opposing racism isn't a giveaway that I'm far right. 
I simply don't think race matters, doesn't matter if you read Steven Pinker or Thomas Sowell, it's their ideas that matter, not the colour of their skin. BTW, i suggest you read both, they are phenomenally intelligent, articulate and entertaining. They're also conveniently left/right, white/black, Canadian/American, but at the end data driven.

Everyone knows that the extremists have a problem with racism, violence etc.
It's the mainstream acceptance of racism and even the active promotion of racism that's a problem. 
The problem with the Liberals specifically is they're the governing party of the country. The fact that they are openly racist is a problem. The fact that so many people think this is okay is an even bigger problem.

I think having an actively racist government is one of the greatest threats to our society.


----------



## MrMatt

james4beach said:


> You are far right. You are strongly opposed to modern liberal values. You can't even write a sentence without loading it with your propaganda.
> 
> One giveaway that you're far right is that you constantly accuse the liberals of the same things your movement is known for; you're projecting. Look at what you just did. The far right has a serious problem with racism, violence, and misogyny and so you project it back at your enemies (the liberals).
> 
> Then a moment later @Eder replied with the same schtick ("Dismantling democracy sounds like a Trudeau thing"). Exact same style, as is often found among Trump people and Fox News and which has been adopted by the far right in Canada as well.
> 
> You're definitely far right, @MrMatt and you know it.


Oh and it's nice circular logic.
You're proof that I'm "far right" is that I call out bad behaviour in group A, instead of group B, so I _must_ be in group B.

You can't even define far-right, or a single value or opinion that would put me there.

Heck I'm even pro abortion in many circumstances, I'm sure that must somehow confirm that I'm a religous extremist in your mind.


----------



## james4beach

MrMatt said:


> Oh and it's nice circular logic.
> You're proof that I'm "far right" is that I call out bad behaviour in group A, instead of group B, so I _must_ be in group B.


There is virtually nobody on this board who is as persistent as you are in defending and making excuses for the far right, including far right radicals.


----------



## sags

Race matters to those who are systemically discriminated against their whole lives. 

Instead of agreeing that black lives matter (a slogan representing the systemic racism), the right mocks and tries to neutralize it by saying "all lives matter".

All lives matter would be appropriate in other subject matters, but not when the subject is racism against people of color.


----------



## MrMatt

james4beach said:


> There is virtually nobody on this board who is as persistent as you are in defending and making excuses for the far right, including far right radicals.


Ok
You haven't defined far right, I literally don't know what that means, as far as I can tell it's some nonsensical slur.

To the best of my knowledge I have never defended a "far right radical", though not knowing your definition Jack Layton could very well have been a far right radical. I believe he, like Milo Yiannopolous, was for gay rights, and against racism.

I've been systematically discriminated against my whole life, so what? 
That's why I stand against racism and sexism, and I have my whole life.


----------



## calm

"Trump said he was a Cheer Leader. Cheer Leaders are Okay for kids.
Adults wanted a leader."

I would really like to know who else got a copy of the Intelligence briefing on January 28?

I would think that half of Washington got briefed on the seriousness of Covid-19.

No government employee gave the citizens any truth, trust or honesty. These same employees brag about it being a "Duty" to serve the citizenry.

I find it hard to believe that Nancy Pelosi would not be briefed in January as well as Trump.

On January 28th, Trump would know that every hotel he owned would be bankrupt overnight. Did Trump sell any shares or obtain new loans in February or March? (Before the shutdown March 29th.)

On February 13th, maybe it was Trump who told Senators Richard Burr and Kelly Loeffler and they sold shares before the crash?

People would ask why was it Okay for Trump to tell Bob Wardward the dangerous facts about Covid-19 but not tell my Mom?

Did Bob Woodward sell any shares? Did Bob Woodward tell any of his friends just how dangerous Covid-19 was?


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> People would ask why was it Okay for Trump to tell Bob Wardward the dangerous facts about Covid-19 but not tell my Mom?


Trump doesn't care about your mom or anyone else's mom. Trump cares about Trump.


----------



## MrMatt

From the COVID Thread


james4beach said:


> Wrong. The reason I think you are alt-right / far right is not because you said that criminals should be charged. I agree that people who commit violent attacks should be charged - always.
> 
> The reason I think you are far right is that you fit the pattern. For many years, you have made apologies for the right wing extremists (Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, etc) even while they committed acts of violence. You always tried to deflect attention away from them, even while their activities keep increasing and becoming more violent and threatening to society.
> 
> You showed sympathy for right wing terrorists and extremists by always downplaying, or trying to deflect, whenever there was news of another one of their attacks.
> 
> You made misogynist statements. For example, you showed contempt for men you thought were feminine, showing a contempt for females and a belief in the superiority of masculinity.
> 
> You talked about your interest in weapons/guns. Combined with your appreciation for vigilante gangs, and sympathy for violent right wing attackers like Rittenhouse and the armed convoy which attacked Portland, you are nearly a perfect fit for the "far right" persona.
> 
> These are not normal positions to have. They are radical ideologies.


Wow I've got it.
You've decided that these groups are bad, so anyone who ever said anything positive about them is bad.

You've gone full partisan, and don't understand that some people believe their are shades of grey.
It seems that anyone who ever disagrees with you has "radical ideology", I think that in itself is a radical ideology. I think it's completely possible to see the same event and have a different opinion or conclusion. It's dangerous to label all disagreement as extremists. I don't think you're a left wing extremist (yet). I think you've just come to some incorrect conclusions.

Sympathy for Right wing terrorists, don't believe I've ever done that. I'm against terrorism of all types, I actually still hold out hope for democracy. That's why the ongoing violence troubles me.

I've don't believe I've made any misogynist statement, but you won't source it.
I have pointed out the misogyny of others.

Rittenhouse if you look at the evidence it's pretty clear that Rittenhouse was acting in self defence.
I'm actually against an armed convoy attacking anyone, I even mentioned that I'm glad it didn't escalate to violence.
I respect the right for peaceful protestors to protest.

So the simple fact that I disagree with you makes me an extremist. That's the problem with people like you, you're like sort of deranged George W Bush "you're with us or against us".
That's the problem, you seem literally unable to understand differing opinions, except to ascribe them to some sort of imaginary enemy. 

I think, looking at the reality of the world there is lots of common ground we can move forward on.

I actually understand why people might want to reform aspects of the police, there are valid concerns.
But I don't understand why they would want to leave violent rapists on the street.
There is a leap of logic I'm simply not following there.

I would have thought we could both agree that the Floyd case could have been handled better, and the Blake case the officers were pretty much out of options.

But the agitators see no benefit to that, so that gets buried, to the detriment of all.


----------



## sags

The Rittenhouse "defense" is riddled with holes.

Bottom line..........his intention was to go to Kenosha and shoot people if he deemed it necessary.

He was not authorized to act as law enforcement and had no property in Kenosha to protect.

There may be a longshot hope that he may get a couple of sympathetic jurors and end up with a hung jury.

Otherwise, his only hope is to get a life sentence reduced. I feel some sympathy for the kid because his life is now destroyed.


----------



## sags

Trump's "defense" is riddled with holes.

He knew about the danger of the virus, and continued to downplay it. He even said that China was "hiding" information on it from US intelligence.

Many knew that couldn't be true. The US has intelligence all over the world and the President would have been advised from the very onset of the virus.

Bottom line........Americans can't trust their President to tell the truth or protect their lives and he has to go.


----------



## sags

Trudeau's "defense" is strong.

He made mistakes and admitted to making them. He was doing what he thought best for Canadians. His mistakes didn't cost either lives or money.

Bottom line.......the PM deserves re-election based on his list of accomplishments.


----------



## sags

james4beach said:


> Trump doesn't care about your mom or anyone else's mom. Trump cares about Trump.


I am not even sure about that.

He is suffering from severe heart disease and mental degradation. He has suffered multiple strokes and has permanent damage. 

He should resign and take care of his health.


----------



## Beaver101

sags said:


> Trump's "defense" is riddled with holes.
> 
> He knew about the danger of the virus, and continued to downplay it. He even said that China was "hiding" information on it from US intelligence.
> 
> Many knew that couldn't be true. The US has intelligence all over the world and the President would have been advised from the very onset of the virus.
> 
> Bottom line........Americans can't trust their President to tell the truth or protect their lives and *he has to go.*


 ... don't forget, he got the WH bunkers' locks changed so he can continue squatting there.


----------



## dotnet_nerd

Beaver101 said:


> ... don't forget, he got the WH bunkers' locks changed so he can continue squatting there.


That's a joke, right???


----------



## Beaver101

^ Why?


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ... don't forget, he got the WH bunkers' locks changed so he can continue squatting there.


To continue squatting you would have to have squatted in the first place. Trump was fairly elected.

So far, the only person that hasn't accepted the results of a fair and democratic election is Hillary Clinton. Four years now and she is still bitter.


----------



## Eder

Looks like he's nominated for his second nobel peace prize...actually he has been the most peace loving president of modern times...who knew?









Trump nominated for second Nobel Peace Prize following Serbia-Kosovo deal


In a Friday morning tweet, Magnus Jacobsson, a member of the Swedish Parliament, announced he was nominating the Trump administration and the two European nations.




nypost.com


----------



## Prairie Guy

Eder said:


> Looks like he's nominated for his second nobel peace prize...actually he has been the most peace loving president of modern times...who knew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump nominated for second Nobel Peace Prize following Serbia-Kosovo deal
> 
> 
> In a Friday morning tweet, Magnus Jacobsson, a member of the Swedish Parliament, announced he was nominating the Trump administration and the two European nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nypost.com


And unlike Obama, he actually accomplished something to warrant nomination.


----------



## Beaver101

Prairie Guy said:


> To continue squatting you would have to have squatted in the first place. Trump was fairly elected.
> 
> So far, the only person that hasn't accepted the results of a fair and democratic election is Hillary Clinton. Four years now and she is still bitter.


 ... title of this thread is *Thank god the old Trump is back *so stick with the subject. The Dump continues to squat there.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ... title of this thread is *Thank god the old Trump is back *so stick with the subject. The Dump continues to squat there.


What does squatting have to do with the subject?


----------



## Beaver101

Deciphering for you: Dump=Trump=squatting


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> Deciphering for you: Dump=Trump=squatting


That's not accurate, not funny, and it has nothing to do with the topic title. 

It's time to grow up and accept the results of the election.


----------



## Beaver101

Prairie Guy said:


> That's not accurate, not funny, and it has nothing to do with the topic title.


 ... really? And Hilary does?



> It's time to grow up and accept the results of the election.


...that's yesteryears (ah, like 4 years ago?) so it's about time for you to grow up.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Beaver101 said:


> ... really? And Hilary does?


In response to your silly squatting comment. Hillary still thinks she won the election and refuses to go away. That's a form of squatting.



Beaver101 said:


> ...that's yesteryears (ah, like 4 years ago?) so it's about time for you to grow up.


Yes, it was 4 years ago. Unlike you, I accepted the results of the election on election night. You seem to have a problem with it almost 4 years later and are claiming that Trump is a squatter. I'm not the one who needs to grow up.


----------



## Spudd

I have no idea how anyone could think Clinton refuses to accept the results of the election and "refuses to go away". She phoned Trump on election night and conceded. I have barely seen her in the media since then.

On the other side, Trump is not a squatter at the moment, he was democratically elected and rightfully won his place in the WH. Post-election, if he loses and refuses to concede, then at that point we might start discussing squatting.


----------



## calm

If I was Trump, I would be out inhaling all the air I could so that I could become infected with Covid-19.

It could be said that Trump died peacefully in his sleep because he did not want to cause a panic.


----------



## calm

A couple of days ago I listened to an explanation about who votes for Trump and The Boys.

It was said that that people admire Trump because he does not talk like a college educated person. Plain language.

Not intellectually, but socially, his supporters have always felt inept with anybody having more than a high school education.

Much like "putting on airs" for the air heads.


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> A couple of days ago I listened to an explanation about who votes for Trump and The Boys.
> 
> It was said that that people admire Trump because he does not talk like a college educated person. Plain language.
> 
> Not intellectually, but socially, his supporters have always felt inept with anybody having more than a high school education.
> 
> Much like "putting on airs" for the air heads.


Many university grads talk down to anyone who doesn't have their level of education and regular people find that insulting. I've always found it hilarious that someone with a liberal arts degree can believe that they're better than a mere plumber or electrician.

The plumber might be making $80,000 a year while the liberal arts major asks: "Do you want fries with that?"


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> A couple of days ago I listened to an explanation about who votes for Trump and The Boys.
> 
> It was said that that people admire Trump because he does not talk like a college educated person. Plain language.
> 
> Not intellectually, but socially, his supporters have always felt inept with anybody having more than a high school education.
> 
> Much like "putting on airs" for the air heads.


Right. A key demographic of supporters is white, non college educated people.

There's more to it though, which I learned when I was immersed in American culture. Many Americans respect the abrasive, arrogant loudmouth -- it's seen as a kind of bold American character.

Even more interesting, a good number of Americans also respect the hustler and tricky business man. The idea of a scrappy guy who tricks and cons people, therefore "outsmarting" his foes. Many Americans see it as an admirable skill.

All of this applies to Trump and it appeals to a lot of people. When Trump is deceptive, or sly with his words, or trolls and baits people into doing something, many of his base cheer. The fact he has a crooked business history does not reflect badly on him.

Really, Trump is giving you a view of the kinds of things many Americans respect and value. Pretty terrible isn't it?


----------



## calm

"Calling a Republican a 'hypocrite' is like calling a midget 'short'"


----------



## Eder

I enjoyed reading this ...not for those that suffer from TDS though...whats going on in Quebec, they love the US?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304888589373902848
more here

*100,000 in Montreal Canada March for Freedom — They Chant ‘USA-USA-USA,’ Fly ‘Trump 2020’ Flags & Protest Overbearing COVID-19 Policies*








100,000 in Montreal Canada March for Freedom — Trade Guru


Demonstrators Chant ‘USA-USA-USA,’ Fly ‘Trump 2020’ Flags & Protest Overbearing COVID-19 Policies The number of people marching and chanting ‘USA-USA-USA’ in Montreal absolutely stun onlookers. Watch: Organizers estimate 100,000 people rallied in Montreal Canada on Saturday, Sept. 12, 2020 to...




www.toptradeguru.com





CBC trying to do damage control calling protesters all Q anon ...



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/anti-mask-protest-montreal-1.5722033


----------



## Beaver101

^ oui, imbéciles.


----------



## calm

It is said that Trump knew the virus was airborne in January and everybody was running around looking for hand sanitizer and not face masks until early April.

Trump: Nothing more could have been done on Covid-19
CNN's Jamie Gangel reports on additional clips released ahead of journalist Bob Woodward's book on President Trump.
CNN - Newsroom
Host John King interviews Jamie Gangel
September 14, 2020








Trump to Bob Woodward: Nothing more could have been done on Covid-19 - CNN Video


CNN's Jamie Gangel reports on additional clips released ahead of journalist Bob Woodward's book on President Trump, titled "Rage".




www.cnn.com


----------



## bgc_fan

Beaver101 said:


> ^ oui, imbéciles.


It's kind of sad that people are being influenced by QAnon conspiracies. I mean who would really take a pig farmer in the Philippines with a love of Japanese pornography seriously as a source of all these deep state conspiracies? Could Q really be a pig farmer named Jim Watkins?, Who is Jim Watkins, the pig farmer who took over one of the web's most notorious hate sites?. Or a New Jersey software developer? QAnon Website Shuts Down After N.J. Man Identified as Operator - BNN Bloomberg

But then, you can't try to convince followers that what they are reading is a scam to make money, as they believe the theories are the truth. Who is behind the Qanon conspiracy? We've traced it to three people


----------



## Prairie Guy

I didn't fall for the Russian collusion hoax that many people here did. Even after it was disproven some of you still think it's true.


----------



## sags

Qanon are 2020's version of this







which has always attracted and made money from the gullible.

_Step right up folks and observe the Snake Lady. Only a dime, one thin dime, one tenth of a dollar.

She walks, she talks,.......... she crawlssssss on her belly like a reptile._


----------



## sags

Prairie Guy said:


> I didn't fall for the Russian collusion hoax that many people here did. Even after it was disproven some of you still think it's true.


There was no collusion. Putin is the boss and Trump does what he is told.


----------



## calm

CNN just said that Trump is just throwing "Bodies" at the covid-19 problems.


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> There was no collusion. Putin is the boss and Trump does what he is told.


That's an outright lie. A 3-year investigation stacked with 17 Democrat lawyers found absolutely no collusion.

You're not allowed to make up your own facts. I was banned for saying what Biden did even though it can be verified from several sources of national TV footage. If you can't provide proof of your claims you should be banned too.

Mods...is there a double standard?


----------



## calm

HHS Spox Michael Caputo Tells Trump Supporters: ‘If You Carry Guns, Buy Ammunition’ Because ‘Shooting Will Begin’ When President Refuses to Stand Down

“The drills that you’ve seen are nothing,” Caputo said amid a mass of conspiracy drivel. “If you carry guns, buy ammunition, ladies and gentlemen, because it’s going to be hard to get.”

“Caputo, 58, the assistant secretary of public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services, said without evidence that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was harboring a “resistance unit” determined to undermine President Trump.

Caputo also said that his “mental health has definitely failed,” adding “I don’t like being alone in Washington….shadows on the ceiling in my apartment, there alone, shadows are so long.”

September 14, 2020








Trump Health Aide Pushes Bizarre Conspiracies and Warns of Armed Revolt (Published 2020)


Michael R. Caputo told a Facebook audience without evidence that left-wing hit squads were being trained for insurrection and accused C.D.C. scientists of “sedition.”




www.nytimes.com


----------



## calm

People are wondering if Trump is really a pro-life candidate because of Trump having all those political rallies without masks,


----------



## sags

Trump's mental decline has been swift.


----------



## calm

sags said:


> Trump's mental decline has been swift.


The Decline of Civility has been just as swift.
----
I am thinking that there is something fishy happening with this virus story. Maybe it is far worse than what we are being told?

It just seems so odd to me that Trump feels comfortable to prance around in crowds.
I don't think Trump is suicidal. But he might be squeezing into End Of Times beliefs and thus fatalistic.

Maybe Trump knows that he can't dodge an airborne virus forever. Maybe Trump knows that there are multiple types and thus making vaccine futile?

I know it is kind of like a conspiracy story. I won't tell anybody this story if you don't.


----------



## bgc_fan

It looks like the Trump campaign is getting a bit lazy, using stock Russian imagery to support the troops:








Trump ad asks people to support the troops. But it uses a picture of Russian jets.


The Trump Make America Great Again Committee is run by both the Republican National Committee and the campaign.




www.politico.com





Stock photo: Military Silhouettes Soldiers Airforce Against Backdrop Stock Photo (Edit Now) 400783420

Here's the twitter account of the photo source: https://twitter.com/Agent36i


----------



## Prairie Guy

politico and twitter...it must be true!!


----------



## calm

Bob Woodward now claims that when Trump was in TV-Land praying that people would go to church on Easter Sunday (April 12), Trump was privately calling the virus a "Plague".


----------



## sags

Trump is really busy right now. He has a lot to think about.

COVID ?.......nope. Wildfires in the west ?.......nah. Hurricane hitting Louisiana ?......no. What then ?..........Hillary Clinton's emails.

Trump's brain has locked up with the same 2016 memories going round and round in an eternal loop. My grandfather was like that. It is dementia.

Even if he wins the election, Trump won't complete the term. VP Pence will take over at some point.

Why does Pence always look like he is peering into the sun or like he has to go poop ?


----------



## calm

sags said:


> Trump is really busy right now.


As I am typing this reply I am listening to CNN - Anderson Cooper and Woodward.

Trump is totally into the election. There will come a time that he might recognize that he has little or no chance of winning. Right now Trump is into Election mode.

When a hurricane or forest fire happens, all the politicians want to be seen in TV Land wearing a heavy heart. But that is all. Government arrives buys a few nails to rebuild and repair, but it is a joke.

It reminds me of a time years and years ago, I was watching the Journal on CBC with Barbra Frum. The story was about a home for battered women opening up and it would house 9-12 women. There were more than 20 thousand women standing in line for housing and Barbra Frum is so confident in her mannerisms, that one would think it was problem solved. And, on to the next story.

I'm thinking that if Trump shows a upward swing of support, his Tax Returns will be front page news.

The Ruling Class need Biden to win by 60 %.

The political elite have already walked away. His campaign is broke. They will destroy him if necessary. 

Trump "Played" with money for 3 solid years and waltzed away with his friends, but The Ruling Class play for keeps.


----------



## Beaver101

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/*scientific-american-magazine-issues-first-presidential-endorsement-in-175-year-history-by-backing-biden*-1.5106070

Who's Dump? 

Reminds me of the upcoming verse to apply:

_Dumpity dumpity sat on the wall ... Dumpity dumpity had a great fall ....and all the king's asses and ... _


----------



## Prairie Guy

So Scientific Magazine decides to ignore the science of advanced dementia to endorse Biden?


----------



## Prairie Guy

Scientific American is owned by Springer Nature, 53% German owned and based out of Stuttgart. What we have here is foreign interference in a US election.


----------



## sags

Biden is extending his lead in key States Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan.....The electoral race puts Biden crushing Trump.


----------



## calm

+ A multi-billion dollar private equity firm, whose subsidiary was awarded two special permits by the Trump Administration to haul hazardous liquified natural gas (LNG), including by rail along Florida’s east coast, apparently forgave more than $100 million in debt owed by Trump….








Fortress forgave huge Trump loan, got US permits to transport LNG by rail


By Ann Henson Feltgen, FloridaBulldog.org - Fortress Investments forgave a huge loan to Trump, later got US permits to transport LNG by rail




www.floridabulldog.org


----------



## sags

Is this the same type of LNG that ships around Canada ?

So if one of those big LNG storage tanks blew up.........BC would be a crater seen from space ?

_On Dec. 5, 2019, the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration issued another special permit to Energy Transport Solutions authorizing the shipment of mixed freight with up to 100 LNG tank cars to make the 175-mile run between Wyalusing, PA and Gibbstown, NJ.

*“It would only take 22 tank cars to hold the equivalent energy of the Hiroshima bomb,*” said Jordan Luebkemann, an attorney with the nonprofit public interest organization Earthjustice._


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> + A multi-billion dollar private equity firm, whose subsidiary was awarded two special permits by the Trump Administration to haul hazardous liquified natural gas (LNG), including by rail along Florida’s east coast, apparently forgave more than $100 million in debt owed by Trump….


One thing that makes Trump so amazing his his ability to con his supporters. He campaigned on "draining the swap" but he is, of course, a crooked billionaire elite who thrives in the swamp.

There is no end to the frauds and abuses of power this guy is involved in. Pardoning his buddy Roger Stone, for example and rigging various parts of the government to serve the needs of him and his gang.

Again... he's a master con artist, master crook. He's so good at understanding human behaviour and manipulating others that he can make his MAGA people dance like puppets. People like @Prairie Guy fall for it and can't even understand that they are the puppets. Trump tells them exactly what he knows will drive them.

And look how Trump shifts with the winds of social/popular mood, reading public sentiment. First we hated muslims for a while but notice that's eased off quite a bit (that was sooo 2018). Then some hate for hispanics, also eased off. What's really hot right now is playing up fears of black people, socialists, and radical leftists. He's also toying with fear and hatred for Chinese and I could see this becoming a hot new fashion.

The guy understands the psychology of Deplorables and fearful conservatives. He manipulates and plays them, because Deplorables will keep him in power, and emotions are a powerful motivator.


----------



## sags

Trump says to his supporters like PG.......I can do anything I want and you will still support me.


----------



## calm

Somebody said:

Trump supporters are not “anti-state.” They want a State big enough and violent enough to crush the Deep State and all of its leftwing opponents….
----
Trump is a religion. He is like the Pope. (Infallible.)
Imagine the fools who believe that Jesus was born of a virgin? Or like Mitt Romney believing that some Mormon fool spoke to God as he walked through the Utah bush with his 55 wives?

It reminds me when I was a kid.
I was a Catholic Altar Boy and discouraged from playing on the Anglican Church property.


----------



## fstamand

LOL thanks for the chuckle.

This thread is hilarious. It boggles my mind why there are still trump supporters out there. And for him to be losing in polls by Sleepy Joe, wow! The only reason why trump would win is the same as last elections. Dems can't come out with a solid candidate.


----------



## Beaver101

sags said:


> Trump says to his supporters like PG.......I can do anything I want and you will still support me.


 ... the "Cult".

I just read saw a headline that even Robert DiNiro labels this group of Dump-supporters as a "cult".


----------



## calm

I am thinking that if Trump grabs only 40 percent of the vote, his supporters will be committing political sabotage over the next year in order to ensure that Trump remains relevant. (Like Newt Gingrich did)
His supporters will find it very difficult to walk away from the political battles and they can commit a lot of damage.
Trump's political fever and adoration will not disappear but will be directed to winning the the mid term elections of 2022.


----------



## calm

The President's Taxes
Long-Concealed Records Show trump's Chronic Losses And Years Of Tax Avoidance.
The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.

Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.

By Russ Buettner, Susanne Craig and Mike McIntire
September 27, 2020








Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance (Published 2020)


The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## james4beach

calm said:


> Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.
> 
> He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.


No wonder he was hiding his tax returns. A billionnaire elite who pays no tax and who brought in even more tax cuts for the rich, and big corporations.


----------



## Eder

If anyone other than Hillary could lose to Trump I think Joe can. On a happier note...









Trump approves $22-billion railway between Alaska and Alberta


A2A Rail vice chair Mead Treadwell said the so-called A2A Railway will succeed where others have failed, because markets are hungry for resources that Canada produces




www.westernstandardonline.com





Will be very useful if Arctic ice actually does reduce & we have a northern seaway to Europe.


----------



## calm

Trump is going to stall out long enough with appeals for the next few years and hope he dies before paying any penalties.

Remember Kenneth Lay (Enron) had his conviction overturned due to abatement ab initio, a legal doctrine which says the death of a defendant during an appeal results in a vacated judgment.

The Trump Estate will not ever owe or pay a dime in taxes.


----------



## calm

sags said:


> Is this the same type of LNG that ships around Canada ?


An assault on a chlorine railway tanker car could create a toxic cloud extending up to 15 miles. It is estimated that up to 100,000 people could be killed or injured in less than a half-hour by such an attack.

And the railway tanker cars move through the very center of every city in North America.


----------



## Beaver101

calm said:


> The President's Taxes
> Long-Concealed Records Show trump's Chronic Losses And Years Of Tax Avoidance.
> The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.
> 
> Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.
> 
> He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.
> 
> As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.
> 
> By Russ Buettner, Susanne Craig and Mike McIntire
> September 27, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump’s Taxes Show Chronic Losses and Years of Income Tax Avoidance (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


 ... amazing. No wonder members of the "MAGA Cult" just loves him or rather love paying homage et al to him.


----------



## james4beach

Beaver101 said:


> ... amazing. No wonder members of the "MAGA Cult" just loves him or rather love paying homage et al to him.


Apparently they don't all love him. His campaign manager of 2+ years tried to kill himself this weekend. The SWAT team had to come to his house.

This tax info is interesting because it shows one of two things (and neither is good for Trump): he's either a tax cheat who uses huge, improper deductions, OR the losses are genuine and he's terrible at business -- doesn't make any money.


----------



## bgc_fan

james4beach said:


> This tax info is interesting because it shows one of two things (and neither is good for Trump): he's either a tax cheat who uses huge, improper deductions, OR the losses are genuine and he's terrible at business -- doesn't make any money.


The bigger issue is the following from the article:

_This time around, he is personally responsible for loans and other debts totaling *$421 million, with most of it coming due within four years*. Should he win re-election, his lenders could be placed in the unprecedented position of weighing whether to foreclose on a sitting president.

There is, however, a tax benefit for Mr. Trump. While business owners can use losses to avoid taxes, they can do so only up to the amount invested in the business. But by t*aking personal responsibility for that $421 million in debt, Mr. Trump would be able to declare that amount in losses in future years.*

The balances on those loans had not been paid down by the end of 2018. And the businesses carrying the bulk of the debt — the Doral golf resort ($125 million) and the Washington hotel ($160 million) — are struggling, which could make it difficult to find a lender willing to refinance it._

So, by being able to offset the losses related to the debt to his personal taxes, he can write down a lot of it. So some of it is accounting, aside from the fact that his business are losing money. 
The reason why the loans are a bigger issue, is that normally, people like this would NEVER pass any sort of security screening because they are vulnerable to compromise. Particularly when you consider that most of the funds are from Deutsche Bank, with known Russian money-laundering activities.


----------



## james4beach

james4beach said:


> His campaign manager of 2+ years tried to kill himself this weekend. The SWAT team had to come to his house.


I forgot to mention that the Trump campaign manager was forcibly committed to a psychiatric hospital.

I hope Giuliani doesn't have to suffer a similar fate. We watched him deteriorate for several years, and I hope he gets the care he needs as well.


----------



## Beaver101

^ Surprising, his sidekick Pence is awfully quiet these days ... where's Mike? Include Guliani, that would be 3 peas in a pod. 

Add: I wonder if the Dump's lawyers will ever get paid in fighting the IRS for him ... or will they go by the way of that Avenatti guy? The Fatal Attraction phenomenon with MAGA Cult members ...


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.


Trump followed tax laws passed by the Obama administration.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Bombshell NYT story on Trump tax returns shows that he received a $3.5 million wire transfer from a corrupt Russian tied to Vladimir Putin. 

Oh wait, no, that was Hunter Biden.


----------



## Retired Peasant

Am I the only one that understands the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion?


----------



## calm

Retired Peasant said:


> Am I the only one that understands the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion?


Illegal - Tax evasion means concealing income or information from tax authorities.
Legal - Tax avoidance means legally reducing your taxable income.

Is Trump legal or illegal?


----------



## james4beach

Retired Peasant said:


> Am I the only one that understands the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion?


No, you're not the only one who understands the difference. What Trump did might be legal, if those expenses are legitimate. So tell us, which do you think it is?

Is he a horrible businessman who is incapable of making money?

Or is he a tax cheat who steals from the American people?


----------



## Eder

Most commercial real estate developers deduct large interest payments on their debts from taxable income, thereby lowering their tax bills. Typically, they also often avoid capital gains taxes by plowing profits from the sale of one building into the purchase of another. 

But carry on, the orange guy is special.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Eder said:


> But carry on, the orange guy is special.


Joe Biden is even more special. His son collected $3.5 million from Russian interests and millions from China but all the media and half of this board care about are Trump's legitimate tax losses.

It reeks of desperation.


----------



## sags

Hunter Biden is a grown adult and can answer for himself.

What Trump did may have been legal, depending on if the deductions were valid........like paying his daughter Ivanka $750,000 in consulting fees while she was a paid employee of the Trump organization or deducting $70,000 for his hair care. The IRS will determine if it was tax avoidance or tax evasion.

But if Trump inflated his losses to the IRS while inflating his assets to the lenders, that is bank fraud. That is why Paul Manafort is in prison.

_*"Bank fraud is considered by the Government to be one of its most serious criminal offenses; more serious than armed bank robbery, in fact. An individual who writes a single “bad check” on a bank can receive up to 30 years in prison while an individual who robs a bank with an AK-47 can receive up to 20 years in prison."*_









Understanding Bank Fraud Charges – State and Federal


With the struggling economy, bank fraud is becoming a more common and easy crime to commit. Bad economic times produce financial desperation, and financial desperation can result in terrible life choices. In 2013, 60 percent of banking organizations were exposed to actual or attempted payment...




www.johntfloyd.com





The courts will sort that all out but defending against bank fraud charges is difficult because the evidence is in signed documents.

Investigators and the IRS will now be expanding their net and talking to Trump's accountants, lawyers, and banks that he dealt with.

They will likely start talking and making deals to avoid prosecution themselves.

The NYT says there is much more to come out........so we shall see.


----------



## sags

Regardless of the outcome, Trump's claims of being a "successful" businessman were lies. According to him all his businesses were losing money.

He is facing a $70 million dollar case with IRS, and pending $100 million dollar loan against Trump Tower, and $300 million in other loans coming due and he has no money and the "Trump" name brand is worthless. Hotels and buildings were already removing his name from their businesses.

It looks to most financial experts that Trump is bankrupt, and has been for a long time.


----------



## Retired Peasant

calm said:


> Illegal - Tax evasion means concealing income or information from tax authorities.
> Legal - Tax avoidance means legally reducing your taxable income.
> 
> Is Trump legal or illegal?


We don't know yet


----------



## Prairie Guy

Retired Peasant said:


> We don't know yet


That's not stopping the false accusations from the alt-left on this site. Guilty until proven innocent...and even when proven wrong they won't change their mind.

So far all Trump is guilty of is losing money and legitimately claiming losses on his income tax. Hunter Biden is guilty of accepting millions from Russia and China interests while his dad was VP and the media won't even report that.

As I stated earlier, it reeks of desperation.


----------



## Retired Peasant

james4beach said:


> No, you're not the only one who understands the difference. What Trump did might be legal, if those expenses are legitimate. So tell us, which do you think it is?
> 
> Is he a horrible businessman who is incapable of making money?
> 
> Or is he a tax cheat who steals from the American people?


We don't know yet. I prefer to wait and see. So far, everyone is calling it avoidance. Time will tell whether it's avoidance or evasion.


----------



## Retired Peasant

Odd, I couldn't post that without removing the words 'illegal' and 'not'


----------



## like_to_retire

sags said:


> Regardless of the outcome, Trump's claims of being a "successful" businessman were lies. According to him all his businesses were losing money.
> ........
> It looks to most financial experts that Trump is bankrupt, and has been for a long time.


And yet you feel he should pay more tax? He made quite a lot selling his image from the TV show “The Apprentice” and firms paid rights to use his name. On the other hand his businesses, especially the golf courses did poorly. So he deducted the losses and doesn't owe taxes. Isn't that normally accepted? If I lose money on a stock I deduct the loss against my income - I don't think they consider it tax evasion. 

And everyone is all up in arms about deducting hair care for his TV show. If my work requires boots or special equipment that I have to purchase I'm allowed to deduct it.

When will the left stop this - they keep trying and trying and seeing what will stick, and eventually they might actually find something. Sore losers.

ltr


----------



## calm

I really am not into his guilt or non guilt.
It must be nice to prance around globe with a private jet and 10 thousand dollar suits while not paying taxes on the money used to purchase the jet and suits.
I am just interested on his election chances after these revelations.


----------



## Eder

Actually building infrastructure like hotels etc is crack for economies even if they are not a constant source of taxes...just like rich people building huge yachts they never use...much better than donating the money to a charity.
Canada needs to start building things as well rather than putting the kaibosh on every idea in the name of Greta.


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> I really am not into his guilt or non guilt.
> It must be nice to prance around globe with a private jet and 10 thousand dollar suits while not paying taxes on the money used to purchase the jet and suits.
> I am just interested on his election chances after these revelations.


The information regarding Hunter Biden's millions from Russia and China while his dad was VP is more of a revelation than legitimate tax write offs. Well, unless you're al-t-left, but in that case your mind was already made up.


----------



## sags

It just shows the kind of schemes the wealthy use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. No wonder people want to "tax the rich".


----------



## sags

calm said:


> I really am not into his guilt or non guilt.
> It must be nice to prance around globe with a private jet and 10 thousand dollar suits while not paying taxes on the money used to purchase the jet and suits.
> I am just interested on his election chances after these revelations.


Yup......losing hundreds of millions but living like a king. He is living on someone else's money. 

The big question is whose money is it and what do they demand in return.


----------



## james4beach

sags said:


> It just shows the kind of schemes the wealthy use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. No wonder people want to "tax the rich".


Exactly. He demonstrates exactly why we need to aggressively tax the rich and close the loopholes.

If we're assuming he actually is good at business and not a total loser, then someone as rich as him should be paying far more than $750 in taxes.

I recently cut a cheque for $22,000 to the IRS meaning I pay $21,250 more in tax than Trump does.

This is what we mean when we talk about the rich having to pay their "fair share". How much more clear can it get? This guy doesn't pay his fair share of taxes.


----------



## fstamand

sags said:


> He is living on someone else's money.


Exactly what cons despises. Except it's ok for king trump.


----------



## Prairie Guy

fstamand said:


> Exactly what cons despises. Except it's ok for king trump.


Clinton Foundation.


----------



## bgc_fan

james4beach said:


> Exactly. He demonstrates exactly why we need to aggressively tax the rich and close the loopholes.
> 
> If we're assuming he actually is good at business and not a total loser, then someone as rich as him should be paying far more than $750 in taxes.
> 
> I recently cut a cheque for $22,000 to the IRS meaning I pay $21,250 more in tax than Trump does.
> 
> This is what we mean when we talk about the rich having to pay their "fair share". How much more clear can it get? This guy doesn't pay his fair share of taxes.


He is paying what he owed. Although apparently there some dispute over $72.9M tax refund he received, so he could owe that. The brief story I understand is that one of his businesses went bankrupt, so there was a tax deduction if it was a total loss and didn't retain any ownership. But, he decided to retain 5% of the subsequent entity, so he isn't entitled to it.

The problem is that his taxes are conflating personal and corporate activities. Most of what he deducts as personal business expenses wouldn't fly for just about anyone. The tax code is messed up, the fact that you could claim real estate depreciation from your businesses on your personal taxes is really bad. But of course, that loophole will never get closed up.


----------



## like_to_retire

sags said:


> It just shows the kind of schemes the wealthy use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. No wonder people want to "tax the rich".


And yet the top 10 percent of income earners pay almost 70 percent of federal income taxes. Go figure. Take money from those that earn it and give it to those that don't - fair share indeed - the Marxist credo.

ltr


----------



## Rusty O'Toole

Is Donald Trump a bum who never made any money and went bankrupt 6 times? In that case how could he owe any taxes?

Is he a self made billionaire who pays the minimum legal tax? That makes him a smart businessman.

You can't have it both ways. 

One thing we do know, there is no Russian collusion and no illegal tax avoidance. If there was they would have found it by now.


----------



## sags

Trump should have used his $400 million inheritance to buy REITs.


----------



## Eder

One year I paid almost $250,000 income taxes...since retiring I carefully manipulate my income so I have been paying only a few k/year but am richer than when I was dinged 1/4 mill. Lots of tax payers just like me.


----------



## fstamand

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Is Donald Trump a bum who never made any money and went bankrupt 6 times? In that case how could he owe any taxes?
> 
> Is he a self made billionaire who pays the minimum legal tax? That makes him a smart businessman.
> 
> You can't have it both ways.
> 
> One thing we do know, there is no Russian collusion and no illegal tax avoidance. If there was they would have found it by now.


A smart businessman would not go bankrupt 6 times


----------



## fstamand

Prairie Guy said:


> Clinton Foundation.


Funny how cons always brings out the past. the clintons are done, obama is gone. Move on


----------



## Prairie Guy

fstamand said:


> Funny how cons always brings out the past. the clintons are done, obama is gone. Move on


The Clinton Foundation is currently being criminally investigated as well as Obama's role in the fake Russian collusion hoax. Trump's bankruptcies were in the past.


----------



## like_to_retire

fstamand said:


> Move on


Really - Move on? If it would only happen - the Dems just can't accept the Hillary loss.

I agree - MOVE ON.............

ltr


----------



## fstamand

like_to_retire said:


> Really - Move on? If it would only happen - the Dems just can't accept the Hillary loss.
> 
> I agree - MOVE ON.............
> 
> ltr


I think the dems accepted it a long time ago, the cons think that they haven't.
Here's to 4 years of Biden bickering! 🍷🍷


----------



## fstamand

Prairie Guy said:


> The Clinton Foundation is currently being criminally investigated as well as Obama's role in the fake Russian collusion hoax. Trump's bankruptcies were in the past.


That's great, investigate all you want. Are they in charge now? Trump got his 4 years. So who cares what happens to Clinton or Obama... I personally don't care at all. If they messed up, they need to pay for their actions. 

Seems like some people just need to spread their hate, since Trump is losing polls.


----------



## like_to_retire

fstamand said:


> I think the dems accepted it a long time ago, the cons think that they haven't.


Hilarious, you and sags should get along great.

ltr


----------



## bgc_fan

fstamand said:


> That's great, investigate all you want. Are they in charge now? Trump got his 4 years. So who cares what happens to Clinton or Obama... I personally don't care at all. If they messed up, they need to pay for their actions.
> 
> Seems like some people just need to spread their hate, since Trump is losing polls.


I think this pretty much sums it up.


----------



## james4beach

fstamand said:


> Funny how cons always brings out the past. the clintons are done, obama is gone. Move on


It's more of a deflection / diversion technique that the MAGA people have picked up. Trump trained them how to do it.


----------



## fstamand

like_to_retire said:


> Hilarious, you and sags should get along great.
> 
> ltr


Great comeback !


----------



## fstamand

It's strange to me how Obama comes back to the table. Don't recall him ever shelling out 130k to shut up a porn star (call it fake news all you want, it was confirmed by king trump).

ANDDD it's very sad that Trump is currently losing polls to a pedophile dead corpse. A door stopper could have done fine too!


----------



## fstamand

james4beach said:


> It's more of a deflection / diversion technique that the MAGA people have picked up. Trump trained them how to do it.


I think it's more like they have nothing else to grasp on.


----------



## Prairie Guy

fstamand said:


> It's strange to me how Obama comes back to the table. Don't recall him ever shelling out 130k to shut up a porn star (call it fake news all you want, it was confirmed by king trump).


Clinton paid $750k to a woman he sexually assaulted. Trump paid $130k to a porn star for consensual sex. Advantage Trump.


> ANDDD it's very sad that Trump is currently losing polls to a pedophile dead corpse. A door stopper could have done fine too!


It's easy to win a poll when they over-represent Democrats in polling. First criminal Hillary, now senile Biden with corrupt Kamala. Is that the very best the Democrats have to offer?


----------



## sags

Fake news source.


----------



## moderator2

Removed a post in the thread, linked to conspiracy theory web site.


----------



## fstamand

Prairie Guy said:


> Clinton paid $750k to a woman he sexually assaulted. Trump paid $130k to a porn star for consensual sex. Advantage Trump.
> 
> It's easy to win a poll when they over-represent Democrats in polling. First criminal Hillary, now senile Biden with corrupt Kamala. Is that the very best the Democrats have to offer?


Clinton was a clown, just like Dobbya. I quoted Obama here

I saw on fox news that trump was leading by 100% !


----------



## fstamand

Prairie Guy said:


> It's easy to win a poll when they over-represent Democrats in polling. First criminal Hillary, now senile Biden with corrupt Kamala. Is that the very best the Democrats have to offer?


Kinda sad that trump will lose to them nitwits, I agree!


----------



## Eder

Well I guess this won't comply with the agenda lol

*Joe Biden Used Tax-Code Loophole Obama Tried to Plug*
Looks like he & his family avoided $500k similar to the orange guy









Joe Biden Used Tax-Code Loophole Obama Tried to Plug


Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden used a tax loophole that the Obama administration tried and failed to close, substantially lowering his tax bill.




www.wsj.com


----------



## james4beach

Eder said:


> Well I guess this won't comply with the agenda lol


And what was the net result? How much federal tax did he pay in the end?

Turns out Biden pays around $3.7 million in taxes, and $1.5 million the previous year. *Trump pays nil*. Even Bernie Sanders pays $343,882 in taxes.

That was a nice attempt at distraction though. But why do you feel such an overwhelming desire to defend the crooked billionnaire?


----------



## james4beach

As if it wasn't bad enough that Trump pays no taxes, there's more questions being raised about these massive debts of his.

It's a national security concern. A politician who owes this much money can be easily swayed or blackmailed by an external entity. That's why people with profiles like Trump's can't ever get security clearances. Neither can their family... they are just too dangerous to the nation. Trump _personally_ owes more than $400 million to someone.

This author observes that Trump's debts make him a national security threat. The source cited there says Trump's debts are more like $1 billion.


----------



## bgc_fan

james4beach said:


> Trump _personally_ owes more than $400 million to someone.


To be fair, he doesn't personally owe the money, he personally guaranteed the money. There's a slight distinction. 
But it is a measure of how untrustworthy and how bad a track record he has, in that he won't get a business loan unless he personally guarantees it. But yes, it is a security issue.

There are some dodgy issues, like paying Ivanka a consultant fee even though she is an employee.


----------



## calm

This tax stuff is just going to infuriate the millions of unemployed who have not received help from the Federal government since July.
Imagine not being able to pay your rent and being threatened with eviction by the same Clowns that support Trump?
I am thinking that the Ruling Class will need to step up and soothe the anger very quickly or there will be huge damage done to civil society.
The Ruling Class only need to soothe the population until after the new president takes office in January.
Martial Law will be in place shortly.

I keep thinking that this virus will have most everybody hibernating for the next 18 months.

Will the world stand by and watch America print a trillion dollars per month? Increasing the deficit to 40 or 50 Trillion? I don't think so. America would lose it's Reserve Currency status

The Ruling Class will not be able to reduce the trillion dollar payments to the unemployed without putting troops on the streets.

The Service Sector is what showed up after all the manufacturing jobs went offshore. The loss of tourism and hospitality sectors is equivalent to losing the total and complete manufacturing sector in the 1980's.

European Banking is in really bad shape and they will drag the North American enconomy because they have a large presence here.


----------



## sags

Bank fraud and tax evasion are serious felonies in the US. Conviction means substantial prison time.

The current Justice Department under Barr may choose not to investigate, but if Biden is elected there will be a new AG.

One tax expert on CNN said Ivanka Trump could also be charged for participating in a tax evasion scheme.


----------



## calm

sags said:


> Bank fraud and tax evasion are serious felonies in the US. Conviction means substantial prison time.


Trump has a plan just like Ken Lay did. He got convicted (10 counts securities fraud) and then appealed while remaining free. Then he died 3 months before sentencing while vacationing at his home in Aspen, The conviction was overturned due to abatement ab initio, a legal doctrine which says the death of a defendant during an appeal results in a vacated judgment.
Trump's family dynasty will survive quite nicely.


----------



## bgc_fan

If you have the time, there's an old documentary about Trump that may provide some insight.


----------



## calm

Do you think Trump would get a sympathy vote if he has been infected with Covid-19?


----------



## calm

Eugene Gu, MD: “Trump kept telling us to take hydroxychloroquine and inject bleach into our veins to cure the coronavirus. Yet when he got infected, he took the most advanced monoclonal antibody cocktail *made from fetal tissue obtained from abortions *and never even once took hydroxychloroquine.”​


----------



## Beaver101

BARF!!!


----------



## Prairie Guy

calm said:


> Eugene Gu, MD: “Trump kept telling us to take hydroxychloroquine and inject bleach into our veins to cure the coronavirus. Yet when he got infected, he took the most advanced monoclonal antibody cocktail *made from fetal tissue obtained from abortions *and never even once took hydroxychloroquine.”​


Eugene Gu has a very checkered past and has no first hand knowledge of Trump's medical treatment.

But I guess any lie will do if it serves the purpose?


----------



## Beaver101

^ Hey, everyone is trying to learn from the BIGGEST, EXPERT LIAR DUMP ... and you're welcomed.


----------



## calm

I thought that Trump and The Clowns were against abortions?

COVID treatment Trump touted as a "cure" was developed using cells derived from aborted fetal tissue.








COVID treatment Trump touted as a "cure" was developed using cells derived from aborted fetal tissue


The antibody cocktail President Trump took and praised was developed using cells derived from kidney tissue of a fetus aborted in the Netherlands in the 1970s.




www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Beaver101

calm said:


> *I thought that Trump and The Clowns were against abortions?*
> 
> COVID treatment Trump touted as a "cure" was developed using cells derived from aborted fetal tissue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID treatment Trump touted as a "cure" was developed using cells derived from aborted fetal tissue
> 
> 
> The antibody cocktail President Trump took and praised was developed using cells derived from kidney tissue of a fetus aborted in the Netherlands in the 1970s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com


 .. his mouth is with words coming out that hole being emptier than air particles. * But his soul isn't.*


----------



## calm

I am beginning to think that a huge majority of those people attending Trump rallies are those Born Again Christians, The End Times and Rapture Folks.

The more support Trump gave Israel, like moving the embassy to Jerusalem and the more lands that Israel grabs, and the more peace treaties, the Christian Zionists see this as a sign that Jesus is going to arrive in Jerusalem very soon.
Christian Zionists believe that Jesus is going to return and destroy the Arab Mosque which now sits on top of a Jewish Synagogue in Jerusalem. (The Wailing Wall.) That is why many Jews bang their heads against the Wailing Wall and pray for the walls that surround them to collapse.

Trump is the messiah.
The more times Trump talked about Israel in the Oval Office, the more convinced the Rapture Folks became and saw Trump as a sign to hurry up and get ready for heaven. Trump has talked about Israel a lot leading into this election season.

The Born Again are praying that Jesus arrive today.
They are kind of suicidal when praying for the End Times.
No Masks at a Trump rally is a sign of faith in the messiah named Trump.

I have studied this history a lot.

Christian Zionists believe that Jesus is not coming to save the Jewish Folks. Jesus is coming back to save and rescue Christians. (One hundred and forty-four thousand to be exact.)
That is why there are many many instances of Jewish Folks spitting on Christian preachers in Jerusalem.
In Israel, it is illegal for Christian preachers to proselytize, convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another because Christians believe that only Christians are going to be saved at End Times.

These are the people at Trump Events.


----------



## calm

Religion is the battlefield where power and influence is rooted.
In ancient times, (before the birth of Christ) when tribes would go to war, Jewish Folks loaded up their camels and headed out to the nearest highway or well traveled path and sold to anybody passing by.
They never cared which tribe won the battle because the warriors were not of the same religion as the Jewish Folks. (The warriors were Non-Jews.)
After the war, the wealth earned because of trading with all sides of the conflict, Jewish Folks were placed at the throne of power because of the debts owed and the accumulation of wealth.
.


----------



## bgc_fan

Who would have thought that Fox News would criticize Trump?




__





tuckbot.tv
 





tuckbot.tv


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> Who would have thought that Fox News would criticize Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tuckbot.tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tuckbot.tv


Fox has been moving left for years. Juan Williams, Chris Wallace, Donna Brazille, etc...


----------



## bgc_fan

Prairie Guy said:


> Fox has been moving left for years. Juan Williams, Chris Wallace, Donna Brazille, etc...


Either you didn't watch the link or it just went right over your head.


----------



## Spudd

bgc_fan said:


> Either you didn't watch the link or it just went right over your head.


That was the best thing I've seen all day, LOL. (The response, although, the video was pretty good too.)


----------



## calm

"Those Who Do Not Learn From History are Condemned to reTweet It"
--Mitchel Cohen, October 13, 2020--


----------



## calm

Trump claims that he did not tell the American People the truth about Covid-19 because he did not want to cause panic ....

But, he told all his Money-Friends the truth .....

Did any of Canadian Money Forum members get a copy of that memo or were you all hit with a market crash and without a memo?

Do you think that because Trump and The Clowns pulled this kind of Sh?t off that he deserves to remain leader of a Capitalist Nation? Trump should be hung by the eyelids and kicked in the the gonads until he blinks.

50 million Poor People are beginning to panic (they never got a memo) and unable to pay their rent and untility bills.

The Federal Reserve is offering 7 bucks a day

Do you think that the protesters now on the streets should just march right up to the front door of the billionaires and just take everything they own?

The U.S, Capitalists who gained financially should never-ever be allowed to enjoy their wealth again.

Let them count their wealth, but not ever to enjoy it.

In a tweet posted on the afternoon of February 24 Trump declared that the virus was “under control” in the US and that the “Stock market [is] starting to look very good to me!”

A memo was written by William Callanan, a member of the Overseers, located at Stanford University, and then relayed to billionaire David Tepper, founder of Appaloosa Management and owner of the Carolina Panthers of the National Football League, on February 26. Tepper has an estimated net worth of over $12 billion.

The contents of the memo were quickly disseminated within Appaloosa and then to two unnamed outside investors. Within 24 hours the memo was delivered to at least seven investors in at least four separate money-management and trading firms, prompting a drop of nearly 300 points in the stock market compared to the previous week’s high.

It’s clear that officials within the US government tipped off their donors allowing them to divest themselves or short millions of dollars in stock before prices plunged.


----------



## calm

Because I wrote a small blurp about religion, power and money, I thought that this would be a good place to paste this info.... I just liked reading about the Olden Days or Ancient Times ..... the history.

Forgive them their debts: Lending, Foreclosure and Redemption — From Bronze Age Finance to the Jubilee Year.’ They discuss the new – or not-so-new – reality of creditor jubilees in which investors’ bad investment decisions are made whole and why it has, instead, always been the debtor who has rightfully been given a clean slate.
By Michael Hudson
April 26, 2018




__





Jesus: the economic activist | Michael Hudson


Prof Michael Hudson provides an extraordinary insight into some of Jesus most prominent statements. Was he really an economic activist?




michael-hudson.com


----------



## james4beach

I think there is a very good chance Trump will win this election. Or at least get close enough that, once he challenges his fictitious 'fake ballots' and sends things to the courts, that there will be enough public support as he seizes power. This could be very similar to 2000 when Bush stole the election from Gore, another time Republicans corrupted democracy.

Trump, like any authoritarian, is inherently more aggressive than his opponents. This means that in any public battle (media or courts) he is likely to win.

Today I was texting with a couple American friends. One man responded with a whole bunch of insanity about pedophile democrats and elaborate conspiracies. It reminded me: a lot of Americans really are stupid or gullible enough to believe this nonsense. Even educated and (seemingly) properly functioning adults.

The Republicans have flooded the conservative base for years with conspiracy theories and political junk to brainwash them. It's worked. Fox News and perhaps more importantly, social media propaganda machines (Facebook and Youtube) have done a great job pushing fictional narratives.

The end result is that a lot of people believe Trump's lies. And remember, he's an _expert_ con man. He just knows how to manipulate people... but all of this is assisted by the massive right wing media machinery.


----------



## calm

According to Pat Robertson, if you don't want the end of the world to happen vote Biden.


Pat Robertson Prophesies That Trump Will Win Reelection, Then the End Times Will Begin

“…The next thing is the election that's coming up in just a few weeks, at which time, according to what I believe the Lord told me, the president is going to be re-elected,” Robertson prophesized during his show on Tuesday. The preacher then added that Trump's victory is “going to lead to civil unrest, and then a war against Israel and so forth…”

By Kyle Mantyla
October 20, 2020








Pat Robertson Prophesies That Trump Will Win Reelection, Then the End Times Will Begin | Right Wing Watch


Televangelist Pat Robertson reported on "The 700 Club" today that he had been told by God that President Donald Trump will be reelected ... and his




www.rightwingwatch.org


----------



## Beaver101

The majority of Americans should pray for their country should the Dump continue as the POSTUS.


----------



## calm

james4beach said:


> I think there is a very good chance Trump will win this election.


Because I am not an American citizen, I worry more about me being shown as an idiot with my views and forecasts on this election which has Trump losing handily.
I have always claimed (beginning early spring) that Biden is going to win by 60 percent popular vote.
I have suggested that the Ruling Class will manufacture the election of Biden with such a huge majority so that he can introduce martial law without much opposition from government.
I also believe that Trudeau is attempting to call an election so that he too has a majority in order to introduce the military into Canadian cities.
I just hope that Trump loses just so I don't look much like an idiot with my projections of election night.


----------



## calm

Pat Robertson Prophesies Winner of Election Followed by These End Times Events
CBN Founder Pat Robertson believes God has shown him that Donald Trump will win reelection – an event which will be followed by a series of earth-shaking events, including massive civil unrest across the US.
He also believes the near future will bring some fulfillment to End Times prophecy, including a war against Israel as foretold in Ezekiel 38 in which God will come to Israel's defense in a powerful way. Watch the video below for the entire description.
Robertson also cited the following scriptures in pointing to a Biblical timeline of events that could follow:
----
CBN News
By Pat Robertson
October 20, 2020


https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2020/october/pat-robertson-prophesies-trump-to-win-election-then-end-times-prophecies-will-unfold


(YouTube Video)


----------



## calm

I always thought that this article or commentary was pretty good ...

Part III of III
Expelling the Demons of the Opiate
Into the Mind and Ego

In the beginning, when humankind first thought of its place in the known world, living in environments virgin, bountiful and pristine, setting foot in a paradise never to be seen again, journeying far and wide both for survival and a home, in time splitting up again and again, branching out in diversity and to different destinies, a loneliness of existence began setting in. A fear of the unknown, of traversing lands alien and uncomfortable, of confronting threats both human and natural, was spawned from inside a primitive brain not understanding of how Earth and its many complexities worked.

Without the power of the collective brain or the accumulated knowledge gathered over many centuries, without a grasp both of science and the learned understanding of the many laws of nature, lacking sophisticated enlightenment and the ever-important growing awareness of self, our ancestors saw a world foreboding in character and frightful in existence. They saw an environment full of obstacles and dangers. They felt alone in the world as their thinking minds wondered on their origins and reason for living. Slowly but surely human curiosity blended with imaginations, forming an ego that helped explain, in primitive ways, an existence that encompassed early man.

Afraid of loneliness and fearful of the world around them, early humans developed beliefs that would better control the ever-insecure human thought process. In order to understand what was then unknown early man developed entities, known as gods, and stories, myths and fables that explained, in very primitive ways, the world they inhabited. The fear of primitive thought was controlled by stories of how man had been created, helping to restore the human ego's questions on origin and reason for existence. Gods were created, based on the imagination and observation of nature, to help explain the unexplained and the paradigms of fear the natural world conveyed.

By introducing the concept of gods, early humans were able to find meaning in their world. They were at once able to differentiate themselves from animals and the natural world surrounding them. Questions that arose were answered easily enough through stories and myths created out of human ingenuity and imagination, and soon nature itself became a series of gods, as did anything not understood that needed explaining, such as the sun, moon, rain, wind, water, fire, the seasons, soil, harvest and the animal world. The concept of being alone in the world was erased as stories of creation and of metaphysical entities made man the foundation of existence, placing us at the throne of Earth and helping, in many ways, to squash the incessant fears early man had of the world it inhabited. Thus, questions were answered, the ego was satisfied, and the idea of religion was born.

The Evolution of Revolution
By Manuel Valenzuela
February 24, 2005








Expelling the Demons of the Opiate


Manuel Valenzuela writes: The human brain, like the human body, is a fragile wonderment of evolution, formed with the arrival of life on Earth, layered through the ceaseless continuation of mutation, growing and adapting over the course of Earth history, ...




www.scoop.co.nz


----------



## calm

About a 2 months ago, here in these forums I suggested that The Republican Party knows it has lost the confidence of the American Peoples.
That the Republican Party is already planning for the Mid-Term elections of 2022.

It will take Joe Biden a year just to get his feet wet and the Republican's will take control of the Senate in 2022 and hold Biden Ransom again.

The cities are going to explode.
The collapse of North America will begin with the cities
Biden needs to "Manage The Decline"

Biden will need to create and spend/borrow 10 trillion during the first 12 months just to remain in neutral gear.

Republicans plan to spend the bare minimum and then blame Joe Biden for increasing the Federal Deficit. The 2022 Mid-Term talking points.

We got lobster fisherman in Nova Scotia needing to make a living and that is small town Nova Scotia. People are "On The Move".

Think about all those workers who operated within the service industry in major cities in North America. They too are "On The Move"

This decision by Mitch McConnell and no stimulous spending is all about setting a path for the Republicans to enter the Mid-Term season (2022) with the bogie man of Deficit and Communist spending. The Tea Party mantra.

Can the U.S. Afford Covid-19?


----------



## like_to_retire

Whew, it's really hard to keep up with your genius _Calm_.........

ltr


----------



## sags

Let's just start with a Joe Biden victory and go from there.


----------



## calm

I was thinking that maybe the reason for cutting the microphone when one guy was talking for 2 minutes is because Biden will lose his train of thought with constant interruptions from Trump.
Thus confirming Trump's assessment that Biden has dementia.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> I was thinking that maybe the reason for cutting the microphone when one guy was talking for 2 minutes is because Biden will lose his train of thought with constant interruptions from Trump.
> Thus confirming Trump's assessment that Biden has dementia.


Nope, it's because Biden concentrates on controlling his stuttering, and the interruptions don't help.

I mean, Trump does pretty well to lose his train of thought without any help:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1318526476837359622


----------



## sags

Oh..........Trump had another really bad day today.

Former President Obama delivered a fiery speech in Pennsylvania, and he totally unloaded on Trump. It was an epic takedown by Obama.

Then a new story starting filtering around the media.. 

It seems that the new film by Borat that is coming out on Prime Video has some footage of Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani that isn't very good.

People can Google it for themselves.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Borat himself said is was a set up joke. But I guess you know better sags??


----------



## calm

Sheldon and Miriam Adelson poured $75 million in September into a new super PAC that supports Donald Trump.

Bloomberg is giving Biden 100 million.

It seems to me that it is these people who are controlling the U.S. election and now have purchased a seat next to the throne of power.

Eli Clifton was blunt about his reasons: “three billionaires paved the way,” including Adelson, Bernard Marcus, and Paul Singer, all Israel supporters. A recent NY Times retrospective on the 2016 campaign was also more frank about Adelson’s interest: “gambling magnate, Republican megadonor and strident voice for Israel.” "

Yes, it is a Middle East country, and it is certainly not Iran. 

There are only 6 million Jewish Folks living in Israel.
America gave Israel 38 billion dollars just a few months ago.


----------



## potato69

batman endorses biden


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320016907182002177


----------



## sags

Prairie Guy said:


> Borat himself said is was a set up joke. But I guess you know better sags??


Borat says......


----------



## calm

Stephen Harper:


----------



## potato69

sags said:


> Borat says......


Let's see how prarieguy twists this to fit his objectively wrong world view. I believe he can do it. He has to. Cognitive dissonance is too painful for some.


----------



## Prairie Guy

Even far left Slate finds it dubious and selectively edited:









A Shot-by-Shot Analysis of the New Borat’s Giuliani Scene


Rudy Giuliani claims he was just “tucking in [his] shirt.” What does the footage say?




slate.com





That being said, Giuliani isn't running for president and this was released as a distraction from corrupt Biden and Hunter.


----------



## calm

Quite interesting descriptions of American history.
"Cities being run by gangs" as an example.
How the Shay's Rebellion began.

Radical Hamilton

On the show this week, Chris Hedges talks to Christian Parenti about Alexander Hamilton, the first treasury secretary of the United States, who has been called the founding father of US capitalism and imperialism.
In his new book ‘Radical Hamilton; Economic Lessons from a Misunderstood Founder,’ Parenti argues that his ideas for the US economy were distorted or ignored by the capitalist elites.
RT - On Contact:
Host Chris Hedges interviews Christian Parenti
October 25, 2020
(Flash Video)








On Contact: Radical Hamilton with Christian Parenti


On the show this week, Chris Hedges talks to Christian Parenti about Alexander Hamilton, the first treasury secretary of the United States, who has been called the founding father of US capitalism and imperialism




www.rt.com


----------



## fstamand

Prairie Guy said:


> Even far left Slate finds it dubious and selectively edited:
> 
> It was a spectacular stunt.


----------



## Prairie Guy

The video did serve the one purpose that was intended...it distracted the easily led from Biden's massive corruption.


----------



## sags

Good thing Borat broke into the room before Giulani really got going. It could have been psychologically damaging to the viewers.


----------



## Prairie Guy

sags said:


> Good thing Borat broke into the room before Giulani really got going. It could have been psychologically damaging to the viewers.


They tried to set up Giuliani with a 24-year old woman and failed. 

Hunter and Joe Biden's criminal actions get a free pass from you while you chase fake news stories.

The NY Post is still locked out of Twitter after more than a week after posting unflattering story about the Bidens. Twitter is guilty of election interference.


----------



## Prairie Guy

The best they can do is use idiot Sasha Cohen to try to discredit Giuliana in a poorly disguised set up.

The media went all the way back to Kavanaugh's high school yearbook but have absolutely no interest in Hunter Biden's laptop.

And some of you think that's okay.


----------



## calm

It is the establishment or the Ruling Class who are guiding or hiding the Biden corruption story line.
It is not Democrat or Republican.
The battle is between Banking and Real Estate and not Democrat or Republican.
It is the Ruling Class, The Elite, and The Superclass who are manufacturing the consent required to place Joe Biden onto the seat of power.
Just look at the money being poured into Biden's campaign and look who is supporting his campaign.
This is quite normal. This kind of stuff was happening long before Trump and The Boys showed up on the scene.
The Ruling Class (Real Estate) got their tax cuts and corporate protections within the courts.
A new sales person is required to ride the storm and they are abandoning Trump who represented property wealth and the replacement is Biden representing Wall Street.


----------



## bgc_fan

sags said:


> Good thing Borat broke into the room before Giulani really got going. It could have been psychologically damaging to the viewers.


Out of all places, Entertainment Tonight brought up a more interesting question: In a hotel interview, how often do the interviewees simply follow the interviewer into the bedroom instead of just taking off the microphone and leaving the suite on the conclusion of the interview? In other words, he didn't hesitate to follow the "reporter" into the bedroom which means that either he is used to this treatment, or expects it. It's also a bit creepy that he asks for phone number and address while in the hotel bedroom. Basically he's a dirty old man who can be easily blackmailed by placing himself in a compromising position, which should be a security concern based on his close ties to the President. That's all aside from the question on what he was doing with his hands.


----------



## Prairie Guy

bgc_fan said:


> Basically he's a dirty old man who can be easily blackmailed by placing himself in a compromising position


Hunter Biden can easily be blackmailed putting the potential future president in a compromising position....that's far more serious.

But, the media told you to focus on Giuliani because they have decided that the Biden's are off limits and you jumped to comply.


----------



## calm

The complete system is corrupt. Totally Corrupt.

Not charging Biden is normal. Get used to it.
Trump and his family are going to walk away too.

Not one banker went to jail after the 2008 economic collapse.
Look at that oxycontin deal just concluded with Purdue.
The Purdue family killed lots of kids and they are walking away
Look at the tobacco companies when they lied for a thousand years? (And killed my parents.)

The 2008 financial crisis happened because the rating companies lied and pretended innocence.

The complete banking system has been laundering all the drug money since Prohibition. Bank directors and shareholders earn a zillion bucks committing crime and get to keep at least 25 percent of the profits and agree to give the U.S. Treasury 75% in penalties. It has been going on since time began.
JPMorgan Chase has a 20-year long RAP sheet that includes at least 80 major legal actions. ($39 billion in fines.)

Biden and The Clowns cashing in with a smirk on his face is not new.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> Not charging Biden is normal. Get used to it


So here's the serious question, charge him for what?


----------



## calm

bgc_fan said:


> So here's the serious question, charge him for what?


They are unable to prove "Intent" so Biden walks.

But in real truth we know that the "Family" raised funding using the success and access to the father.
Just like a mafia family.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> They are unable to prove "Intent" so Biden walks.
> 
> But in real truth we know that the "Family" raised funding using the success and access to the father.
> Just like a mafia family.


Do you mind being more specific, like a concrete action that either Hunter or Joe Biden is doing something illegal? Because this is just like "Obamagate", Trump just says that there is something, but never outright says anything, because at the end of the day, there's nothing.


----------



## calm

It is not illegal because "Criminal Intent" can not be shown.

It is about a "Standard of Proof" being used to defend Rich Folks which is not the same when it is applied against Poor Folks.

Common sense explains that it had to be a pay to play scheme.

In most cases ...... just the circumstantial evidence that Hunter was not qualified to run a bubble gum stand and yet lucked out with Burisma would be enough.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> In most cases ...... just the circumstantial evidence that Hunter was not qualified to run a bubble gum stand and yet lucked out with Burisma would be enough.


Is it though? He graduated from Yale Law and has done a number of things like being a lobbyist, and was appointed onto the Board of Directors of Amtrak by President Bush. But he dropped both when Biden became Vice-President, probably due to optics. He has cofounded a couple of firms, so he has corporate and legal experience (was a counsel for the firm Boies Schiller Flexner LLP). He was hired by Burisma for his name (not denying that), but he was hired to deal with corporate governance. That's something generic that anyone with corporate high-level experience can do, and doesn't require intimate knowledge of the energy sector.


----------



## calm

Drug dealers do the same thing as Hunter.
They launder the money as consultant fees to other partners in crime.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> Drug dealers do the same thing as Hunter.
> They launder the money as consultant fees to other partners in crime.


You're moving goalposts around and again, nothing concrete here. First it was that he was unqualified to work for Burisma or that he was hired for his name, and that's illegal. Now it's saying that he is laundering money. Interesting accusation with what proof? Given that this is a Trump thread, I'll point out that he's been laundering Russian money for decades. How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business


----------



## calm

bgc_fan said:


> You're moving goalposts around and again,


Hunter knew next to nothing about oil and gas in Ukraine.
And it was pay to play.
Joe Biden and his family acted like the mafia and living off the avails of crime.
That is my "Opinion".
I think that the FBI should be working overtime on this, but they deliberately have chosen not to.
And the reason being that the FBI is using a standard of proof which allows people like the Biden Family to walk because of not being able to show criminal intent.

I know I am biased, but I have seen too much white collar crime without punishment.


----------



## bgc_fan

calm said:


> Hunter knew next to nothing about oil and gas in Ukraine.
> And it was pay to play.


Again, I already mentioned that oil and gas is a red herring if he was hired to deal with corporate governance. Burisma had issues with allegations of corruption, so hiring someone to establish best practices for corporate governance doesn't require knowing anything about the actual sector. 

As for the FBI, there's nothing to investigate. If you think that hiring people on board of directors due to "connections" is illegal, then I'm sure that more than half of the board of directors in Fortune 500 companies would be in jail.


----------



## calm

See you in court.


----------



## Prairie Guy

The Democrats was to change 150 years of precedent and pack the Supreme Court. Limiting a president to 2 terms has only been around for 70 years...maybe that should be changed first. Trump 2020 and 2024!!


----------



## bgc_fan

Given that the Trump campaign can't organise a rally without sending people to the hospital, I have some doubts on their plan to distribute the vaccine.








Trump supporters stuck in cold when buses couldn't reach Nebraska rally


Campaign rally attendees waited for hours in the cold for buses to take them 3.5 miles down a private road to their parked cars.




www.fox61.com


----------



## sags

The Trump campaign is running out of money and had to cut the return buses.


Prairie Guy said:


> The Democrats was to change 150 years of precedent and pack the Supreme Court. Limiting a president to 2 terms has only been around for 70 years...maybe that should be changed first. Trump 2020 and 2024!!


Obama would still be President.


----------



## fstamand

bgc_fan said:


> Given that the Trump campaign can't organise a rally without sending people to the hospital, I have some doubts on their plan to distribute the vaccine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump supporters stuck in cold when buses couldn't reach Nebraska rally
> 
> 
> Campaign rally attendees waited for hours in the cold for buses to take them 3.5 miles down a private road to their parked cars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fox61.com


The trump campaign is a dumpster fire. Case in point: markets already factored in his loss to Sleepy Joe, the pedophile with crack addict son.


----------



## james4beach

fstamand said:


> The trump campaign is a dumpster fire. Case in point: markets already factored in his loss to Sleepy Joe, the pedophile with crack addict son.


I think it's worth pointing out that you're trying to be funny / ironic with this line.

Sadly this has to be pointed out, because MAGA people (including some on this board) have come up with all kinds of crazy stories about Trump's political enemies, and actually believe the nonsense.

My suggestion is to not joke about these things, because quite a few people can no longer distinguish tabloid garbage from reality. A large percent of Americans believe wild conspiracy theories so deranged that they probably need professional help.


----------



## fstamand

james4beach said:


> I think it's worth pointing out that you're trying to be funny / ironic with this line.
> 
> Sadly this has to be pointed out, because MAGA people (including some on this board) have come up with all kinds of crazy stories about Trump's political enemies, and actually believe the nonsense.
> 
> My suggestion is to not joke about these things, because quite a few people can no longer distinguish tabloid garbage from reality. A large percent of Americans believe wild conspiracy theories so deranged that they probably need professional help.


Yes of course. You're correct I shouldn't joke about it. I always forget that MAGA people on this site don't share the same sense of humor (or have one?)


----------



## like_to_retire

fstamand said:


> Yes of course. You're correct I shouldn't joke about it. I always forget that MAGA people on this site don't share the same sense of humor (or have one?)


Interesting, I always felt the socially liberal, left woke mob were the overly sensitive and couldn't take a joke. Now you tell us it's the conservative right. Who knew.

ltr


----------



## bgc_fan

Ever thought you can get a combination of Meng Wenzhou and Hunter Biden stories? Here's one which stars Trump:

Trump Quashed Probe Into Crimes by Bank in Turkey, Which Is Paying Trump 

1) The Justice Department was prosecuting financial crimes by a Turkish bank.
2) Turkey’s president asked President Trump to quash the investigation.
3) Trump has personally received more than $1 million in payments from business in Turkey while serving as president.
4) Two attorneys general loyal to Trump, Matthew Whitaker and William Barr, both pressured federal prosecutors to go easy on the Turkish bank.

What was the financial crime? Violating U.S. sanctions law by funneling billions of dollars of gold and cash to Iran.









Turkish Bank Case Showed Erdogan’s Influence With Trump (Published 2020)


New details of the Justice Department’s handling of the accusations against Halkbank reveal how Turkey’s leader pressured the president, prompting concern from top White House aides.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Prairie Guy

Nothing Trump has done comes close to that of Beijing Joe.


----------



## calm

Both Trump and Biden are Political Gangsters.


----------



## calm

Manufacturing Consent:

I am very surprised to learn what lengths the New York Times went to in order to destroy the very "Persona" of the Trump presidency.

"Anonymous" was said to be a high level staffer.
And, meanwhile the guy was a nobody and a low-level guy with a good imagination.

The anonymous op-ed column told of a "resistance" within the Trump Administration, who've questioned his fitness for office.

In my mind I thought it was his chief of staff or defense department who leaked the information. The New York Times made Trump mistrust all his closest advisors, and effectively destroyed the brand Trump.

I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration
I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.
September 05, 2018








Opinion | I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration (Published 2018)


I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## calm

US passports must show 'Jerusalem' not 'Israel', Supreme Court says
June 09, 2015








US passports must show 'Jerusalem' not 'Israel', Supreme Court says


American Supreme Court yesterday struck down part of a federal statute that allowed Americans born in Jerusalem to record their place of birth as 'Israel' on their passport, American media reported. T...




www.middleeastmonitor.com





Trump says no.....

US to allow Americans born in Jerusalem to list ‘Israel’ on their passports
The Trump administration has announced that Americans born in Jerusalem can request to have Israel listed on their US passports as their place of birth
October 29, 2020








US to allow Americans born in Jerusalem to list 'Israel' on their passports


The Trump administration has announced that Americans born in Jerusalem can request to have Israel listed on their US passports as their place of birth...




www.middleeastmonitor.com


----------



## fstamand

He's right you know


----------



## calm

Many of Trump supporters insist judges are not allowed to "Interpret" the constituion.

Are these same supporters allowed to "Interpret" the bible or is it still an eye for an eye?


----------



## bgc_fan

For those who love conspiracy theories and wonder why Trump had never been prosecuted for mob ties, or Russian money laundering, here's the theory that he was a CI.








Tinker, Tailor, Mobster, Trump


What happens when a Confidential Informant becomes President?




gregolear.substack.com


----------



## Eder

Eder said:


> It does seem Hydroxy is a suitable treatment for Covid...sucks that things get political. At any rate Trump does seem to have some smart people giving him tidbits of wisdom that he then goes on to butcher lol.



Well I hate to bring up this thread but it seems the American Journal of Medicine has now published peer reviewed paper advocating use of Hydroxychloroquine as a suitable treatment for people over 50 in early stages of Covid. 

_*"A typical HCQ regimen is 200 mg bid for 5 days and extended to 30 days for continued symptoms. A minimal sufficient dose of HCQ should be used, because in excessive doses the drug can interfere with early immune response to the virus. "*_

Who knew!!



DEFINE_ME


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## james4beach

Well it turns out that Alex Jones, a notorious Trump a** kisser, actually couldn't stand Trump. He got sick of him back in 2019.

Other people who support Trump should take note. Trump is nothing but a selfish con man and crook, who screws everyone he ever associates with. Even the people who work with him can't stand him.

Alex Jones was lying to you. So is Trump. Don't let these kinds of people _make a sucker_ out of you.


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## gibor365

Trump is an amazing man and was the best POTUS in decades. Only for historical peace negotiation between Israel , UAE and Bahrain she should;ve got Nobel price


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## james4beach

gibor365 said:


> Trump is an amazing man and was the best POTUS in decades. Only for historical peace negotiation between Israel , UAE and Bahrain she should;ve got Nobel price


Nope. He's a con man and criminal, and he tricked you... just like he tricked a lot of people. He does not care about Israel in the least.


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## Beaver101

^ When did the old Trump became a "she"? Or are we talking about Ivanka or Melania Trump... on getting a Nobel price? For what IDK though.


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## sags

War is brewing in the middle east, but main media is not covering it yet.

Missile and drone attacks on Saudi's Aramco oil reservoirs over the weekend. It looks like they are coming from Iran. Russian and Israeli bombing in Syria.

Russia and Ukraine are lobbing artillery at each other. The Ukrainians are preparing for an assault into Crimea.

Ethiopia and the Sudan are preparing for war. Egypt may get involved.

China is warning the US to back off on Taiwan and claiming ownership over the South China Sea.

Reports are that the US is going to launch a retaliatory cyber attack against Russia.

They say it will be enough to get Putin's attention and teach them a lesson.

Yea.........there is peace in the valley thanks to Trump.


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## james4beach

sags said:


> Yea.........there is peace in the valley thanks to Trump.


Trump, out of nowhere (probably to please the war mongering Republicans) executed a top Iranian govt official near the end of his term. Let's not forget that the fallout from Trump's action resulted in a passenger jet of innocent civilians shot out of the sky ... many of them, students in Canada. This was one of the greatest air disasters affecting Canada in recent times, but eclipsed by the pandemic.

On top of it we've had 4 years of Trump completely ignoring intelligence reports. The military people & intelligence come to him with reports, and this a-hole refused to read ANY of them! So this has been years and years of foreign developments where the US was completely absent and clueless.


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## sags

And now China has hacked Microsoft business software and is in the crosshairs for US retaliation.

The bad actors are going to discover the hard way there is a new boss in the White House,.... and the Patsy President is gone.


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## james4beach

sags said:


> And now China has hacked Microsoft business software and is in the crosshairs for US retaliation.
> 
> The bad actors are going to discover the hard way there is a new boss in the White House,.... and the Patsy President is gone.


In case anyone wonders why the Russian state specifically backed Trump during the previous election.

What boggles my mind is that conservatives used to go crazy about the threat of Russia. Now they... are just cool with Russia, and love it?


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## gibor365

james4beach said:


> In case anyone wonders why the Russian state specifically backed Trump during the previous election.
> 
> What boggles my mind is that conservatives used to go crazy about the threat of Russia. Now they... are just cool with Russia, and love it?


They used "to go crazy about the threat" of USSR, not Russia. They realize now that Russia is democratic capitalistic country and superpower with whom better to live in peace


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## james4beach

gibor365 said:


> They used "to go crazy about the threat" of USSR, not Russia. They realize now that Russia is democratic capitalistic country and superpower with whom better to live in peace


Democracy? Capitalist? Bull****. Putin is a dictator who has stolen the public's money. There are some estimates that Putin is worth over $100 billion, maybe even higher.

A dictator, who murders politicians who stands in his way. What an amazing democracy!!

The dictator also built himself this huge palace, with money he stole from the Russian public (he probably stole it from gibor too). Really amazing... you've got to watch this. Putin tried to poison the man who made this documentary.


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