# Ipad pro is out.



## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

The good news is that the screen is the same size as the original ipad.
The bad news is that its double the price of ipad air 2 and 3 times the price of the original.

I really cant believe that the new ipad pro has a price tag of $1100 in Canada.
It just seems completely out of whack. Does anyone think the price will come down if sales numbers don't match?

http://www.apple.com/ca/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-pro


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## DollaWine (Aug 4, 2015)

I didn't know it uses a power adapter. The fact that it does means it definitely packs power, I didn't know it was powerful enough to run AutoCAD. Very impressive. 

But I'll stick with my iPad Mini from 2012.... all I do is read eBooks on it anyway


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

daddybigbucks said:


> Ipad pro is out.


...and the Surface Pro is in! BAM!


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i have been thinking about getting a surface pro but the problem is that windows 10 is not quite ready to be a tablet os
but both the surface pro 3 and 4 are very nice
i didn't like surface book nearly as much for the money though technically it is interesting

the ipad pro (and all ipads) have the opposite problem which is that they are not quite powerful enough to be laptops
no way i am going to spend like 1300 all in for the keyboard and pencil and then lug that thing around

i don't get the market
it's too big to hold for reading and too bulky and too much work to haul around all the components

it's technically marvelous, great sound, great screen, the best engineered tablet on the market but i cannot figure out who will buy it ?

reviews have been lukewarm and there are plenty in stores

i would buy a surface pro 4 over an ipad pro at this point
i see the use case for it where i don't for the ipad pro


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

fatcat said:


> it's technically marvelous, great sound, great screen, the best engineered tablet on the market but i cannot figure out who will buy it ?


Maybe the elderly with poor vision (or not) who want a bigger screen. There are plenty of them out there who are using tablets but have never touched a regular laptop and never will.

Otherwise I tend to agree... it's too large as a pure tablet and iOS makes it a poor laptop replacement, at least for now. On a related note, I wish MS had kept the modern (tablet mode) IE from windows 8.1 in 10 :-( It was so much better than everything else.


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## Melicoy (Nov 15, 2015)

APPLE going down hill again???


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

What's the appeal of these things? I just don't get it. Can someone explain to me why a tablet toy is worth $1,000 ?

I bought an Acer tablet for a little over $100 and it's been great. And I have a smart phone that I got for under $100 second hand. My primary computer is a desktop style based on an Intel NUC and it cost me around $600 and is very powerful.

Yet people have thousand $ iPhones and iPads. They all sounds like hygiene products to me. Again, what's the appeal?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's a pretty niche product. In this price range you can buy a good laptop or a Surface Pro, which features a full fledged operating system, not a mobile OS. This won't be moving the needle for AAPL. It is squeezed between iPad and macbook in AAPLs product lineup.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

james4beach said:


> What's the appeal of these things? I just don't get it. Can someone explain to me why a tablet toy is worth $1,000 ?


They're pretty far from toys: lots of professionals use them; iPads are in wide use in medical and science professions (some of my colleagues are on projects that use hundreds of iPads for field data collection), and Apple is hoping to break into the "creative" professional world with the iPad Pro. There's a lawyer in California who switched to an iPad as his main computer, getting rid of his laptop and desktop machine (he wrote a book or two on how to use an iPad at work). Personally I couldn't do it as there are too many programs I use that don't run on iOS, plus I find the touch interface a lot more awkward than a mouse or trackpad.

I think the main reason you see people using iPads as opposed to windows or android tablets is the apps and the functionality. Windows tablet mode is really nothing more than Windows with a touch interface, and there aren't a lot of tablet-optimized Windows apps available. Plus when you're in tablet mode, there's no distinction between apps that work well in tablet mode versus those that don't, so you have to remember which apps you can work with. A lot of good iOS and Android tablet apps are not available for Windows. I haven't used an Android tablet, but haven't heard much good about them; most independent reviews I've read say that the iPad is the best tablet if you want a tablet.

I did buy a Surface Pro 3 a couple of months ago with the idea of abandoning the Mac platform after 30 years; I use Windows at work and Windows 10 seemed very promising, so I figured this would be good time to jump ship. Instead of multiple devices, I figured the Surface could work as my desktop machine (I bought a dock, keyboard, mouse, and monitor), laptop, and tablet. Even though the Surface is more expensive than an iPad or even a comparably speced MacBook Air, I figured I'd save money in the long run since I'd only need one device, not a separate laptop and tablet.

So far, though, it's been pretty disappointing: the hardware is excellent, but Windows 10 is still a work in progress and I keep encountering bugs and stupid usability oversights in Windows that have prevented me from relying on it as my only computer. I've been keeping a list, and it's several pages long, but the upshot is that Microsoft just doesn't pay as much attention to detail as Apple does, and in the end the details wear you down. How could you design a mail app, for example, that doesn't allow you to select all the emails in a particular folder and delete them in one operation? With Microsoft's mail app, you have to select them one by one, which is death when you're trying to empty a junk mail folder that has accumulated hundreds of messages. Outlook lets you select a group of messages and delete them all at once, but the mail app that comes with Windows 10 does not. It's one of Microsoft's ways to upsell you to paying for Office (which I already did, but Outlook is overkill for my personal email). Windows built-in photos app doesn't import raw images and doesn't do non-destructive editing. Even Apple's free Photos app does both of those things and has a lot more functionality.

With my Mac and iPad, everything worked; I never have to reboot except after a system update, everything's stable and generally well thought out. With Windows 10 I feel like it's still barely out of beta and there are lots of rough edges. I'm keeping the Surface and will keep trying every few months to see if enough improvements have been added and bug fixes made to Windows 10 that I can live with it and make the switch. But for now, I'm back to the Mac.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I've been in the computer industry for years. For the most part, I'm considered a legitimate power user and have a high end system that I actually use and push to it's limits when I do projects.

Most of my clients have high end systems too, but they are mainly used for such high end computations such as email, word processing, spreadsheets, solitaire, web surfing, Facebook, and other similar things.

When the iPad first came out, I realized that my choice of work may be in danger. The iPad is perfectly capable of doing all of the above tasks, which accounts for the majority of the marketplace. I fear that computer manufacturers will stop producing high end systems at their current (relatively) cheap prices as demand wanes. Software manufacturers who produce high end software will also start to charge more as demand decreases and systems become more rare.

I cannot physically do my work with my desktop machine but that being said, since getting an iPad, I spend a lot less time behind the desk because I can now check emails, surf the web, provide remote access support, enter data, run simulations, do quick mock ups, etc. from anywhere on either my phone or iPad. I even use it to listen to music (rarely do I use a radio anymore), and watch movies/tv shows when/where I want. I don't watch a lot of tv shows, and often need to pause a movie because I don't have uninterrupted time, the iPad has replaced the tv and radio for me as well as getting me away from the computer.

While it's not powerful enough to do my work, I realize it is powerful enough to replace a computer for the MAJORITY of computer users. It's not a CAD, Photoshop, video editing, data mining machine but it is fully capable of replacing machines for those who don't do power computing.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> While it's not powerful enough to do my work, I realize it is powerful enough to replace a computer for the MAJORITY of computer users. It's not a CAD, Photoshop, video editing, data mining machine but it is fully capable of replacing machines for those who don't do power computing.


This is true, but you could say the same for a Chromebook, which costs about $250. And contrary to popular wisdom, you don't have to be always online to be able to use a Chromebook, and some of them now come in 2-in-one format (laptop and tablet).


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## Melicoy (Nov 15, 2015)

UNBELIEVABLE....

Are you guys listening to yourself. The power you are talking about is MILISeconds. Go add some Ram to speed it up... ops sorry can't do that... maxed at the highest ever for a ipad at 4gigs

Anyways if you have the money and can justify the means to an end then so be it.

WHY IS THIS IN FRUGALITY?


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## BC Eddie (Feb 2, 2014)

brad said:


> They're pretty far from toys: lots of professionals use them; iPads are in wide use in medical and science professions (some of my colleagues are on projects that use hundreds of iPads for field data collection), and Apple is hoping to break into the "creative" professional world with the iPad Pro. There's a lawyer in California who switched to an iPad as his main computer, getting rid of his laptop and desktop machine (he wrote a book or two on how to use an iPad at work). Personally I couldn't do it as there are too many programs I use that don't run on iOS, plus I find the touch interface a lot more awkward than a mouse or trackpad.
> 
> I think the main reason you see people using iPads as opposed to windows or android tablets is the apps and the functionality. Windows tablet mode is really nothing more than Windows with a touch interface, and there aren't a lot of tablet-optimized Windows apps available. Plus when you're in tablet mode, there's no distinction between apps that work well in tablet mode versus those that don't, so you have to remember which apps you can work with. A lot of good iOS and Android tablet apps are not available for Windows. I haven't used an Android tablet, but haven't heard much good about them; most independent reviews I've read say that the iPad is the best tablet if you want a tablet.
> 
> ...


I have a different take on The Surface. I have had a Surface Pro 3 (I5 processor 256 GB) for over a year now and I think it is the best computer I have ever owned. I have worked in IT since the early 80's and have owned a lot of hardware. I liked Thinkpad and then Lenovo because I traveled a lot. Over the years I was often tempted by Apple products but in the IT industry the PC was king. Two years ago I almost bought Apple because of the Retina display and power. However my buddy who had switched to Apple several years earlier talked me out of it because of all the issue he had going from PC to Apple. Plus he told me that the Apple mail product was inferior to Outlook and Intuit's Quicken Apple version was flawed (I have my life in Quicken). My buddy (also a systems consultant) has since dumped his Apple and gone back to a Windows based machine cause he was tired of living with the problems.

The Surface is lightening fast (due to the solid state drive and a fast CPU). I have had only one problem with it and that was due to a hung windows upgrade but that was quickly fixed. It is a very well designed and constructed computer. (PS I almost never use it in tablet mode as it has totally replaced my previous laptops and desktop machines).

Brad - I was not of fan of Windows 8 but I think 8.1 and now 10 have come a long way and I am pretty happy with it now. (I am not an Apple hater - I love my iPhone 6 and could not live without it). I think the example you gave to complain about Windows though is poorly chosen as you are really complaining about the particular mail product. That is not a Windows problem but the APP. Outlook is excellent (My buddy thought the Apple mail product to be far inferior to Outlook). I agree Outlook is not cheap but it is the best mail product I have ever used.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

BC Eddie said:


> II think the example you gave to complain about Windows though is poorly chosen as you are really complaining about the particular mail product. That is not a Windows problem but the APP. Outlook is excellent (My buddy thought the Apple mail product to be far inferior to Outlook). I agree Outlook is not cheap but it is the best mail product I have ever used.


Sure, but this is Microsoft's own email app that comes with Windows 10. If you compare it with Apple's free email app, the Microsoft mail app is very limited and buggy (the November software update this week seems to have fixed stability; it was crashing on me constantly and lots of other users reported the same problem). The issue I see is that people complain how expensive Macs are compared with comparable Windows machines, but to achieve the same level of functionality in the apps you end up having to spend more on a Windows machine to buy a decent email app, for example, and I had to spend $150 on Lightroom in order to get a photo management app that can import and edit raw images (which Apple's free app can do just fine).

I really want to love Windows 10, as it's got a lot of good features and is well designed, but I keep running into glitches.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

apple, google and msft are all trying to find the next step in how people want to access the internet
how many devices do we want to own and what form factors do we want ?

there seems to be some kind of agreement that we want something flexible that does tablet stuff and also allows us to use a keyboard

the ipad is short on real operating system power
the windows tablets are not as intuitive or natural or easy to use since you are pushing around a full operating system

google is reportedly trying to come up with a hybrid of chrome (i just bought yet another chromebook) and android

everyone is trying to find the perfect balance point of power, simplicity, battery life and so on

is think a technology etf is a good bet right now since i think we are looking at new classes of devices coming out and we are likely to see more tech spending from both business and individuals


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## FI40 (Apr 6, 2015)

I won't be buying one! Desktops are awesome.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

brad said:


> I really want to love Windows 10, as it's got a lot of good features and is well designed, but I keep running into glitches.


I wanted to. I have had almost every other version of Windows since ver II on an Apple ][e. I skipped Windows 8/8.1.

Rather than "upgrade" my main laptop, I pulled an old one out that has a flaky wifi card. Plugged in a USB wifi adapter and did the update from Windows 7 home. Been playing with Win 10 for a while. So many things don't work properly. The Mail program is awful. Funnily, it was able to sync my Gmail and ISP mail accounts, but would not bring in my Outlook.com mail. But without asking it eliminated my windows log-on name and password and substituted the one for Microsoft Account (which I never use and had to look up). The browser Edge works. But does not allow add-ons. Therefore adblock won't work. And Lastpass where I have my web passwords doesn't work either. Many other problems. Lot's of ads and security issues. My main laptop won't be getting an update. Windows 7 Pro works perfectly so why change?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

agent99 said:


> So many things don't work properly. The Mail program is awful. Funnily, it was able to sync my Gmail and ISP mail accounts, but would not bring in my Outlook.com mail. But without asking it eliminated my windows log-on name and password and substituted the one for Microsoft Account (which I never use and had to look up). The browser Edge works. But does not allow add-ons. Therefore adblock won't work. And Lastpass where I have my web passwords doesn't work either. Many other problems. Lot's of ads and security issues. My main laptop won't be getting an update. Windows 7 Pro works perfectly so why change?


The mail program seemed great at first, and I still love the calendar, but the mail program has built-in limitations that I think are put there deliberately to make you buy Outlook instead. Or you could use webmail, I suppose. As for the browser, it's easy enough to just use Chrome instead -- it's free and you can easily set it as your default browser (and set Google instead of Bing as your default search engine). PDFs still open up in Edge, but that's okay.

There was a huge update to Windows 10 last week that fixed a lot of the early problems; it's more stable now and I'm finding it much better. But still not better enough to switch.

The Microsoft account thing is indeed an issue. You can set it up to run on a local account, but if you want to use OneNote or Cortana you pretty much have to log in with a Microsoft account. And then you have to keep verifying your identity -- in the first month it was asking me to re-enter my PIN about five times a day, totally randomly (it's not like I logged out or shut down the machine). And when I tried to buy something on the Windows store I had to re-verify my identiy with both PIN and password 8 times before it would allow me to make my purchase. And then to register my credit card, Microsoft set all of the fields as "required," including Address 2, which should never be required -- I ended up having to type "N/A" in Address 2 in order to complete my billing. It really felt like amateur hour.

I imagine all these bugs and oversights will be fixed in the months and years ahead, but my overall impression is that Windows 10 was released while still in beta.

Windows 7 will continue to be supported with security updates until 2020, so you're good for a while if you want to stick with it.


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## the_apprentice (Jan 31, 2013)

I purchased the Surface Pro 4 this week as a replacement for my MacBook Pro. I think the Surface Pro and the MacBook Pro are equally impressive, but portability was the main selling feature for me and the reason I chose the Surface Pro.

If I were to compare the iPad Pro to the Surface Pro, I feel as if they aren't catered to the same market; hands down Windows has the better product here because of the full fledged OS. Not sure why Apple decided to not have OS X installed on the iPad Pro. Maybe Apple feared it would cannibalize Air/Book products? It would be more fair to compare the Surface Pro to the MacBook and the Surface to the iPad Pro.


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## The_Tosser (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm going to wait for the Islamo-pad Pro(gressive) model myself. 

I hear the battery lasts forever and comes in all languages including "Jinn".


P.S: You guys seemed like you needed some action in this thread, lol.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

The_Tosser said:


> I'm going to wait for the Islamo-pad Pro(gressive) model myself.
> 
> I hear the battery lasts forever and comes in all languages including "Jinn".


Gee, man, you're so yesterday! My daughter's Surface already has Jinn! But, then again, she's The_Progressor


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

the_apprentice said:


> Not sure why Apple decided to not have OS X installed on the iPad Pro. Maybe Apple feared it would cannibalize Air/Book products? It would be more fair to compare the Surface Pro to the MacBook and the Surface to the iPad Pro.


Yes, I think the Surface Pro should be compared with the MacBook, not the iPad Pro. The Surface Pro is actually a little more expensive than a MacBook with comparable specs, but if you think about it you're getting two machines in one: a laptop and a tablet. iOS is actually a form of OSX, but the reason Apple doesn't put MacOSX on its tablets is because they want to use an operating system that's optimized for tablets. If you try using your Surface in tablet mode, you'll see that really it's just Windows with a touch interface, there's nothing tablet-optimized about it. Some apps are designed for touch, but if you compare Windows tablet mode to an iPad the iPad is far more useful. 

Apple doesn't care about cannabilization because as long as people are buying an Apple product it's all good: if they buy an iPad Pro instead of a MacBook, at least they're still buying an Apple product. Tim Cook has explicitly pointed this out, they don't worry about it. And he also said that Apple doesn't plan to merge OSX and iOS into one operating system, nor will they put OSX on an iPad: they want to use an OS that's optimized for the device.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

But is iOS really optimized for the use case of a 'pro' tablet that is large in size and designed for use with a keyboard? It's a bit of a toy operating system, which ties the users hands in the pursuit of simplicity. Seems like a questionable fit for a 'pro' device.

To me, iPad Pro is better marketed as iPad Plus. It is by all accounts a great tablet experience. As a professional tool, I think the argument is a bit shakey. The professionals this is marketed at already have specialized tools that are equivalent or better. Graphic artists with drafting tablets, etc. not using stripped down versions of desktop software.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

andrewf said:


> But is iOS really optimized for the use case of a 'pro' tablet that is large in size and designed for use with a keyboard? It's a bit of a toy operating system, which ties the users hands in the pursuit of simplicity. Seems like a questionable fit for a 'pro' device.
> 
> To me, iPad Pro is better marketed as iPad Plus. It is by all accounts a great tablet experience. As a professional tool, I think the argument is a bit shakey. The professionals this is marketed at already have specialized tools that are equivalent or better. Graphic artists with drafting tablets, etc. not using stripped down versions of desktop software.


I'm not sure if you've seen some of the graphic design software that's been developed specifically for the iPad Pro, but it's well beyond what can be done with drafting tablets currently on the market; Adobe gave a few demonstrations during the iPad Pro launch and some of the designers I worked with were ready to ditch their existing tablets and buy one of these on the spot. See http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/adobes-creative-cloud-is-optimized-for-apples-ipad-pro/ for details.


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## the_apprentice (Jan 31, 2013)

Thanks for that informative post brad.

As the iPad Pro had a comparable price tag to the surface I was under the impression they would be competing directly against each other. How wrong I was since the iPad Pro is for the professional user (such as designers) who seek simplicity in an operating system. iPad Pro users will still need a MacBook meanwhile the Surface Pro will replace my MacBook.

To each his own.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

the_apprentice said:


> As the iPad Pro had a comparable price tag to the surface I was under the impression they would be competing directly against each other. How wrong I was since the iPad Pro is for the professional user (such as designers) who seek simplicity in an operating system. iPad Pro users will still need a MacBook meanwhile the Surface Pro will replace my MacBook.


I don't think most iPad Pro users will be using MacBooks for their work; more likely they're using large-screen iMacs or Mac Pros (these are primarily graphic designers we're talking about). In their case the iPad Pro isn't necessarily a mobile computing device, it's something they'd use at their desk for drawing, rendering and retouching photos, etc., where using a pen on a tablet is far more efficient than a mouse or trackpad. The integration with Adobe's other products and Creative Cloud is the selling point here.

I bought a Surface Pro myself as an eventual replacement for my desktop machine and my tablet (an iPad), and to eliminate any need for a separate laptop. But I'm not a graphic designer: my needs are really different. I need a full-fledged portable computer and desktop for my personal work, a Windows machine that can serve as a backup for my Windows work computer, and a tablet for reading books and a few other tablet-related tasks.

My main gripe with tablet mode on the Surface is that most of my favorite iOS apps are not available in Windows versions, and the ones that are available for Windows are pretty poor in comparison. As a Windows tablet user I feel exactly the way I used to feel as a Mac user in the 1990s: like a second-class citizen, because the Mac accounted for about 1% of the computer market, few people were developing for it. And because Windows Mobile is such a tiny percentage of the mobile OS market, the same thing is happening there.

On the other hand I absolutely love the Surface as a laptop and desktop replacement. Once Windows 10 graduates out of beta mode, I'm hoping to use it fulltime.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I have the feeling that Microsoft are attempting to copy Apple's business model. In other words, leave not much room for 3rd party applications or add-ons. But they got where they are by doing the opposite.

In comparing one website (that I use a lot) using Edge vs Firefox, I found that Firefox was bogging down on Win 10. Same site on Windows 7 doesn't do that. Almost like something in Firefox doesn't work well with Win 10. Could be add-ons like Adblocker. Or maybe MS have built in annoyances like that so you will move to Edge?

I actually had high hopes that Edge would be great and improved browser. It will be over IE, but it doesn't compare with FF or Chrome running on Win7. And those two have their own problems.

Really disappointed that MS would put out WIN10 in the form it is after all the hype.

Will keep playing with it. Lucky to have a spare laptop. I wouldn't recommend anyone using Win 7 to "upgrade". Win 8/8.1 owners may want to.


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## Grover (Jun 3, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong but a few months ago I was searching for a tablet like device, but the main criteria I wanted was 3G/cell data available on the product.

At the time, Apple has had products since inception that had this feature (available in Canada), and MS product has it too but not available in Canada (from retail stores anyhow).

Being able to connect to the internet without a wifi hotspot was my main concern and want.... But not available from a non-apple device (not android either).


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

I needed an iPad replacement. Looked at the iPad pro. It is too large for a tablet, and there is no way it's worth a grand. 

Fail by Apple and I can hear Steve turning as we speak. 

Even the iPad Air 2 was too much. I,went,with the,original iPad Air, 32 gig. 489. More reasonably priced. 

I can't see them selling many iPad pros


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

ipad pro is a giant fail ... reviews have been mediocre (though most agree that it is well made and technically beautiful)
everyone is asking "who is going to buy this other than graphic designers" 
they don't constitute a big enough market
it's just too expensive and too big for everyday users


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

fatcat said:


> ipad pro is a giant fail ... reviews have been mediocre (though most agree that it is well made and technically beautiful)


Haha, let's just wait to see the sales figures....


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