# Sewage Backup insurance



## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

I got my Home insurance renewal notice, and the sewage backup insurance that I paid $130 for for $50,000 coverage last year is now $130 for only $15,000 coverage. I'm tempted to drop it, but then the nagging what ifs start. Is this an insane amount to pay? I called them and apparently due to all the flooding this year they are reducing coverage. Will 15 grand even cover basement sewage damage? Any guidance appreciated.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I got a similar notice. Funny how insurance companies stop insuring things as they become more likely to happen. (Actually not funny, and I understand the actuarial reasons. But still.)

You would have to examine your specific location, and the history of storm/sanitary sewer flooding in your immediate area to make an educated guess about whether it is worth having. No, 15K won't likely cover the cleanup costs for sewer backup, unless you have a pretty bare and unfinished basement. If you are in an area at risk, consider having a back-flow preventer installed, and see if your insurance company will give you a discount for having one.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

OhGreatGuru said:


> If you are in an area at risk, consider having a back-flow preventer installed


^^ This.


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

good thought, thanks. I notice a lot of municipalities offer subsidies for backwater valves. It sounds like an expensive job. If I were to have one installed, could I skip the sewage backup insurance all together? Are these valves foolproof?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

In my area it was a requirement to have a back flow valve to get that insurance. Cost probably depends a fair bit on the house, likely over $1000 I'd guess, and they are near foolproof providing they are maintained. Might also be a good idea to get a sump pit put in at the same time.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

underemployedactor said:


> good thought, thanks. I notice a lot of municipalities offer subsidies for backwater valves. It sounds like an expensive job. *If I were to have one installed, could I skip the sewage backup insurance all together? Are these valves foolproof?*


I have one of these valves in my basement drain. Bought it at a local plumbing store for $20. Installed it myself in about 10 minutes.
It is basically a unit that fits inside the sewer pipe of the floor drain..a one way ball valve. It is supposed to stop sewer overflow water from coming into your basement. 
*It does NOT protect against ground water flooding*, such as we are having in Ottawa area near the flood plains of the rivers
during heavy rains or in the spring melt, IF the sewer drain in the basement is also backed up. The water then, has nowhere to go, until the back water in the floor drain
recedes. 

Most insurance companies now insist that for a lower premium, to have one of these installed, but there is no guarantee even with one of these that a spring flood or a heavy downpour, such as the one that happened in Calgary last year or in Toronto can also happen in your area..so to be on the safe side..pay the additional premium. 

If ground water through a sewer backup or coming in from somewhere in the foundation rises inside the basement, the cost of removing the water (pumping it out, (assuming your place does not have a sump pump), then dealing with the moisture in the walls ...(*black mold which makes the house unsaleable and damp*), will far exceed the cost of the premium.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

This thread started with a discussion about reduced coverage specifically for sewer backup. Entry of groundwater is under a different provision of insurance policies. Although the two are often linked as far as cause, because sewer backup most often occurs where storm sewers are not separated from sanitary sewers, and the combined system is overloaded by rain or meltwater.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

carverman said:


> I have one of these valves in my basement drain. Bought it at a local plumbing store for $20. Installed it myself in about 10 minutes.


That's not the back flow valve I was talking about, I'm talking about installing one in the main outlet line. The basement drain models, while adding some level of protection, does not stop sewage from backing up into your weeping tiles or other drains you may have in your lower levels.

I mentioned adding a sump pit eariler as some want protection from ground water flooding as well.

Check if your local insurance companies give rebates on back flow valves and/or sump pits, they may give you something for each of them.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> This thread started with a discussion about reduced coverage specifically for sewer backup. Entry of groundwater is under a different provision of insurance policies. Although the two are often linked as far as cause, because sewer backup most often occurs where storm sewers are not separated from sanitary sewers, and the combined system is overloaded by rain or meltwater.


Yes, this is my understanding. The floor drain in the basement, i believe drains into the sanitary sewer, like the sink water. If the storm sewers get into the sanitary sewer and I don't know how that can happen
as they are supposed to be separate..however..in severe flooding anything can happen.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

cainvest said:


> That's not the back flow valve I was talking about, I'm talking about installing one in the main outlet line. The basement drain models, while adding some level of protection, does not stop sewage from backing up into your weeping tiles or other drains you may have in your lower levels.


If this is what you are talking about, yes the installation by a professional plumber will cost around $1000 (or more). It's good that there is a cleanout port with it because sanitary sewage such as wipes etc, that don't break down, perhaps clog that valve and perhaps prevent it from closing completely requiring a inspection of proper operation from time to time. 

However, what I have installed is a an economical version of this. The retrokit on the floor drain has a ball check valve that allows water to flow out from the basement floor (ie: a leak in the hot water tank) or a washer leaker, it is not directly connected into the sanitary sewer but via the floor drain that drains into the main sewer line. 
I pay an extra $50 a year on my house insurance for the optional sewer backup rider, which would pay for any repairs due to flooding or backwater damage with my standard
deductible ($1000) applying to any claim. If the sewer did back up..there would have to be an environmental cleanup (sanity sewer) coming into your home and that could
be very expensive. 

So its' a crap shoot...pay the $1000 plus for the installation of the backwater valve...or wait until such time as a sewer backup occurs and pay the $1000 deductible on
any claim. 

Now here's the catch (caveat emptor)..

My home insurance company specifies in the Sewer backup Endorsement (for which I pay $50 additional to my home insurance)

*We do not insure (any LOSS or damage); 
*
1)caused by seepage or leakage of water above or below the surface of the ground, including through foundations, walls, basement or other floors, doors, windows or other
openings, or through sidewalks or driveways. 
2) caused by the melting of snow or ice on the exteror of the roof.
3) _caused by escape, back-up or overflow of water from sewers due to the rising of or overflow of streams or other bodies of water. _

So there it is..the insurance company protects themselves from any loss due to flooding in basements EXCEPT actual sanitary sewer backup, where they can sue
the city/municipality to reclaim all or partial payout on any claim. 
BACKWATER VALVE. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV8Wydu9nZQ


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

carverman said:


> ...If the storm sewers get into the sanitary sewer and I don't know how that can happen
> as they are supposed to be separate..however..in severe flooding anything can happen.


Current design practice is to have separate storm & sanitary sewer. But there are a lot of older areas of our cities where they are still combined - and the cost of separating them after the fact is huge. Also, even where they are supposedly separate, mistakes have been made with cross-connections. 

I don't recollect when separating these systems became standard practice. Probably about the same time that cities got serious about treatment of waste water, because rainstorms would exceed the capacity of waste treatment plants and flush untreated sewage into our rivers. I believe we have coastal cities that still flush sewage into their harbours without treatment.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Current design practice is to have separate storm & sanitary sewer. *But there are a lot of older areas of our cities where they are still combined *- and the cost of *separating them after the fact is huge*. Also, even where they are supposedly separate, mistakes have been made with cross-connections.
> 
> I don't recollect when separating these systems became standard practice. Probably about the same time that cities got serious about treatment of waste water, because rainstorms would exceed the capacity of waste treatment plants and flush untreated sewage into our rivers. I believe we have coastal cities that still flush sewage into their harbours without treatment.


This has happened in Ottawa in 2013 from what I can recall. A lot of rainfall comprimised the Ottawa sewer system and a lot of untreated sewage ended up in the Ottawa River.
The city was fined for this and they were supposed to make improvements that it wouldn't happen again. ..but it still might, as the repairs to the older combined sewer system is extremely costly, and in most cases the city just poys the fine to the Ministry of the Environment. 

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/06/03/weekend-storms-cause-40m-litre-sewer-overflow-into-ottawa-river


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Which confirms my point that this is still a common problem due to older infrastructure. Here's a recent article surveying a dozen cities in Ontario:
http://www.canadianconsultingengine...r-combined-sewer-overflows/1002543759/?&er=NA

The detailed report discussed in the article can be found at http://www.ecojustice.ca/publications/the-great-lakes-sewage-report-card-2013/attachment


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

I used to deal with a lot of sewer back ups and other water issues from an environmental health perspective, but but got to know how insurance dealt with these issues. 

Be sure to read your policy carefully, but my experience has caused me to now ensure that I have apple coverage for water damage. It's totally worth it if something happens. Costs add up fast, and you're probably going to be overwhelmed if it happens for the first time and is significant. 

Furthermore, make sure you deal with water damage ASAP or some materials like drywall get moldy within 48 hours. Possible health concerns aside, this will drive costs soooooooo much higher and insurance companies may try to get out of covering these issues. A good contractor with experience dealing with water damage is key, not their regular maintenance guys


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

Thanks all. Backflow valve that goes onto the sewer main was the one I did the research on and this does look like an expensive job. I do have a sump pit and sump pump, but strangely, this seemed to cause more consternation from the insurance rep - not sure why? Perhaps the very existence of a sump pump suggests an area with a higher water table?
Anyway, I think I'll go ahead and pay the sewage backup premium as I like to be insured to the max anyway, and further look into the backflow valve installation.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

underemployedactor said:


> Thanks all. Backflow valve that goes onto the sewer main was the one I did the research on and this does look like an expensive job. I do have a sump pit and sump pump, but strangely, this seemed to cause more consternation from the insurance rep - not sure why?


Problem with sump pumps is that the water coming in can overwhelm the pump in some cases. In other cases, the pump float switch may have a mechanical problem and not start up when the water tables around the basement start to rise. 
Sump pumps offer some protection against water damage in basements, but they won't necessarily eliminate the loss (claim) to the insurance company if there is a lot of rain causing flooding.
The other issue is if you are on a septic tank vs a municipal sewer line. If the septic tank is not checked and pumped out, excess rainwater can get into the tank and cause a sewage
backup..that could get quite nasty as the toilets would not flush properly in that case. This would be separate from the sump pump hole though. 

I once owned a house that had a sump pump hole and a sump pump. One spring it failed and the water came up in the sump hole from somewhere and got the carpets wet in the basement. I repaired the pump and replaced the carpets, there wasn't enough damage to file a claim (under $1000).


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We had an under floor catch basin that would absorb regular rainfall for 4 hours before flooding the basement through the sump hole. We also had a battery alarm on the sump hole to indicate when the catch basin was full. This usually happened when an electrical outage combined with heavy rain. We were flooded twice in 14 years but at least we knew in advance. It is mighty frustrating to sit and watch it happen but we moved all precious stuff to higher ground.

We considered buying a Honda Generator Set each time but decided against it. A 110 v generator on the car might have been a good compromise.


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

Sump pump is supposed to keep water out. Problem is that many people don't understand or maintain them, or they get overwhelmed. Sump pump backups accounted for many of the cases I dealt with. Dirty affair when there's a problem, and will me more expensive and harder to deal with if not handled right initially.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

joncnca said:


> Sump pump is supposed to keep water out. *Problem is that many people don't understand or maintain them, or they get overwhelmed*.


Yes, sump pumps like roofs have to be inspected periodically and checked for proper operation. Unfortunately, they are one of these "out of site-out of mind" items that some (but not all) home owners forget to check periodically. A high water alarm, like KCOWAN suggests is a good idea..but battery alarms are another maintenance item that homeowners may forget about. Most have enough trouble just changing the batteries on their smoke(r)/carbon monoxide alarms every year. 

But you only need to get flooded once to remember to put the monthly check of the sump pump as high priority on your list of maintenance items..especially in the spring, and fall months sometimes.


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## lb71 (Apr 3, 2009)

underemployedactor said:


> Thanks all. Backflow valve that goes onto the sewer main was the one I did the research on and this does look like an expensive job. I do have a sump pit and sump pump, but strangely, this seemed to cause more consternation from the insurance rep - not sure why? Perhaps the very existence of a sump pump suggests an area with a higher water table?


Generally, the sewage backup provision also covers your sump pump in case of failure, and a resulting flood (eg, power goes out, pump dies). Do you have a back up system in place (marine battery with second pump)?

$15,000 is not a lot of coverage for a basement flood. That includes costs for clean up, repair and contents. If you have a finished basement with lots of contents, you may want to consider switching insurer to get your covereage increased.


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