# Assessing Finances at 40



## Forebiz

I've read a lot of personal financial evaluations and thought it was time I added mine to the mix. I have been doing a quarterly net worth calc since 2010 and have annual numbers before that until 1998. I'm personally quite pleased with where we sit but always feel I could or should have done better.

*Background:*
Married couple both 40yo.
3 Kids, 12yo, 8yo, and 2yo.
I work as an Independent Consultant and my wife takes care of the bookkeeping and administrative side of the business.

*Goals:*
My short term goal is to hit 2mil in investable assets and 3 mil net worth. Longer term goal is to retire as soon as possible but maybe continue to do the odd job. I feel a 4mil net worth should allow me to retire and feel that I can reach this by 2022 may continue to work until 5mil in 2024.

*Current State:*
Our company has averaged a net of $350K a year for the last 5 years. We take a total salary of around $240K a year but this varies. Money left in the business is invested, I've looked at it as our pension.

*Assets:*
House - $612K
Vehicles - $54K
NRSP - $263K
RRSPs - $545K
TFSAs - $118K
RESPs - $96K
Cash - $54K
Business - $872K

Total Assets - $2,614,000

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $14K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $2,600,000*

I've tried different investment 'strategies' over the years including penny stocks, 2nd mortgages, rental income property, self managed investment accounts, and crypto. I've been lucky enough to not lose on most of those but have decided to let experts manage my money. I still play a bit but 90% of our investments are with professionals. 

I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, or personal wisdom.


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## Forebiz

*July 1st 2018 Quarterly Update.*

*Assets:*
House - $617K
Vehicles - $54K
NRSP - $278K
RRSPs - $554K
TFSAs - $124K
RESPs - $100K
Cash - $59K
Business - $948K

Total Assets - $2,733,000

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $21K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $2,712,000*


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## scorpion_ca

Where do you spend $14k to $21k on a monthly basis? That's a lot of expenses.


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## Forebiz

scorpion_ca said:


> Where do you spend $14k to $21k on a monthly basis? That's a lot of expenses.


I travel to the US for business monthly, usually two weeks. Hotel, flight, car rental adds up quick. I use my personal credit card for this and any other business expenses.


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## scorpion_ca

Thanks. Would you care to share what type of consulting service you provide or what your background is? Your NW is very healthy compare to your age. I am planning to change my career. I may follow your career path...:encouragement:


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## peterk

Congrats on being so rich, with 3 kids, employee wife, no mortgage, and resisting the urge to buy a $2M house with all that money. Sounds like a lovely family.


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## Forebiz

scorpion_ca said:


> Thanks. Would you care to share what type of consulting service you provide or what your background is? Your NW is very healthy compare to your age. I am planning to change my career. I may follow your career path...:encouragement:


My background is electrical engineering. I consult on control system automation mainly specializing in oil and gas. I also do some manufacturing and food/beverage. I spent 12 years working for someone else gaining experience and contacts before I decided I should try and do it alone.


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## james4beach

Forebiz said:


> My background is electrical engineering. I consult on control system automation mainly specializing in oil and gas. I also do some manufacturing and food/beverage. I spent 12 years working for someone else gaining experience and contacts before I decided I should try and do it alone.


Hi Forebiz, I'm curious about methods to shift into independent work. I also have an EE background. Can you share any tips on going from working under an employer to working for yourself? Were you able to use contacts that you met during your previous employment? Or did you have to 'start from scratch' building up new contacts, customers, etc?


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## kcowan

I would say that 90% of your contacts will have no interest in your capabilities, but the other 10% will be loyal and refer you to their friends too. The secret is to separate the wheat from the chaff.


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## OrganicRain

Forebiz said:


> I've read a lot of personal financial evaluations and thought it was time I added mine to the mix. I have been doing a quarterly net worth calc since 2010 and have annual numbers before that until 1998. I'm personally quite pleased with where we sit but always feel I could or should have done better.
> 
> *Background:*
> Married couple both 40yo.
> 3 Kids, 12yo, 8yo, and 2yo.
> I work as an Independent Consultant and my wife takes care of the bookkeeping and administrative side of the business.
> 
> *Goals:*
> My short term goal is to hit 2mil in investable assets and 3 mil net worth. Longer term goal is to retire as soon as possible but maybe continue to do the odd job. I feel a 4mil net worth should allow me to retire and feel that I can reach this by 2022 may continue to work until 5mil in 2024.
> 
> *Current State:*
> Our company has averaged a net of $350K a year for the last 5 years. We take a total salary of around $240K a year but this varies. Money left in the business is invested, I've looked at it as our pension.
> 
> *Assets:*
> House - $612K
> Vehicles - $54K
> NRSP - $263K
> RRSPs - $545K
> TFSAs - $118K
> RESPs - $96K
> Cash - $54K
> Business - $872K
> 
> Total Assets - $2,614,000
> 
> *Liabilities:*
> Credit Cards - $14K (credit cards are payed off every month)
> 
> *Net Worth: $2,600,000*
> 
> I've tried different investment 'strategies' over the years including penny stocks, 2nd mortgages, rental income property, self managed investment accounts, and crypto. I've been lucky enough to not lose on most of those but have decided to let experts manage my money. I still play a bit but 90% of our investments are with professionals.
> 
> I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, or personal wisdom.


Retire today.


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## scorpion_ca

Forebiz said:


> My background is electrical engineering. I consult on control system automation mainly specializing in oil and gas. I also do some manufacturing and food/beverage. I spent 12 years working for someone else gaining experience and contacts before I decided I should try and do it alone.


I also work in the O&G industry where I have seen engineers spend 80-100 hours during FAT or programming. Some of my colleagues are moving to Management where they would be making $200k to $300k yearly and their age is 38 to 40. 

Unfortunately, I am not an engineer and I don't have plan to change my career to engineering. I am getting tired of making peanuts ($120k) compare to what others are making in my age range though I am not jealous of their success. If they can do it, at least I can try to improve my income. I am thinking to complete my MBA and look for a job in the investment industry. There will be always people who will pay 2% to 2.5% MER for their investment.


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## Retiredguy

You invited comments.

When I see these diaries I often see a house listed as an asset and then a mortgage listed as a liability and then I see Non Reg, RRSP, RESP accounts listed and no contingent tax liability. Absent these I don't think it properly reflects NW. I have long held, greatly appreciated stocks in a Non Reg account and I would be deceiving myself thinking my stock portfolio NW is simply todays closing price on the stock exchange. If you cashed in (sold) your 554K RRSP you may well have 225K owing in taxes? 

Vehicles - I would never list vehicles. They are simply depreciating stuff for living . If vehicles, why not furniture, sports equipment, art, jewelry, clothing.

You listed your consulting business at 948K. How is this value arrived at. Absent your brain is it really worth anything? If you died tomorrow is someone going to give your wife 948K for the business? If the 948K is investments left in the business what's the tax liability


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## Jerm

Retiredguy said:


> You invited comments.
> 
> When I see these diaries I often see a house listed as an asset and then a mortgage listed as a liability and then I see Non Reg, RRSP, RESP accounts listed and no contingent tax liability. Absent these I don't think it properly reflects NW. I have long held, greatly appreciated stocks in a Non Reg account and I would be deceiving myself thinking my stock portfolio NW is simply todays closing price on the stock exchange. If you cashed in (sold) your 554K RRSP you may well have 225K owing in taxes?


I wrestled with this one for a while but ultimately decided to do a traditional NW calc without involving tax implications. My thinking was that its true that its not necessarily a true reflection of NW, but it provides a good indication of how you're doing reporting epoch to reporting epoch (month to month, quarter to quarter, etc). As a 35 year old I'm much more concerned with how my NW is trending as opposed to the absolute value of it. If I was planning on selling everything I own in order to make a major purchase then I'd take the tax implications into account but I'm more concerned about the rate of change than anything else.


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## Forebiz

james4beach said:


> Can you share any tips on going from working under an employer to working for yourself? Were you able to use contacts that you met during your previous employment? Or did you have to 'start from scratch' building up new contacts, customers, etc?


I have plenty to share as I’ve learned by making a few mistakes. Here are a few off the top of my head. Don’t use your name in the company name, use a lawyer to initially setup company, get a good accountant, specialize in a narrow field.
I left with the plan to primarily take two clients, I talked to both before hand and they said they had no loyalty to the consulting company I worked for. This is shady at best but I knew the consulting company wouldn’t come after me legally. I currently have 4 customers with one giving me 70% of my income. I have no plans to grow company beyond me and my wife or look for any other customers.


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## Forebiz

scorpion_ca said:


> I am thinking to complete my MBA and look for a job in the investment industry. There will be always people who will pay 2% to 2.5% MER for their investment.


I’ve also thought I’d like to do something else. Financial planning or counselling?, Own a car wash?


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## Forebiz

Retiredguy said:


> You invited comments.
> 
> When I see these diaries I often see a house listed as an asset and then a mortgage listed as a liability and then I see Non Reg, RRSP, RESP accounts listed and no contingent tax liability. Absent these I don't think it properly reflects NW. I have long held, greatly appreciated stocks in a Non Reg account and I would be deceiving myself thinking my stock portfolio NW is simply todays closing price on the stock exchange. If you cashed in (sold) your 554K RRSP you may well have 225K owing in taxes?
> 
> Vehicles - I would never list vehicles. They are simply depreciating stuff for living . If vehicles, why not furniture, sports equipment, art, jewelry, clothing.
> 
> You listed your consulting business at 948K. How is this value arrived at. Absent your brain is it really worth anything? If you died tomorrow is someone going to give your wife 948K for the business? If the 948K is investments left in the business what's the tax liability


You make some great points but Jerm argues the point quite well. I don’t think you’ll see a standard net worth calculation take into account the taxes you will owe, but for the tax reason I may never feel comfortable giving up an income. I have no argument on the car it’s just a significant asset. When I started doing my net worth in 1999 it was my only asset now it’s insignificant but historically important.
The business has that much saved in its investment account. Back to your point on taxes... I don’t need the money now and eventually it may pay out at a rate of about 50k a year, if it is able to be self sustaining what is its worth? The business is not a sellable asset, it’s worth nothing without me. I’d argue that about any consulting company with a small employee count. <30?

Thanks for your comments, I truely appreciate them.


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## nobleea

Great thread and story. I personally think all assets should be included in NW, just like one would do in a real business. Every business depreciates their assets by an appropriate amount, this has tax implications, but for personal NW it doesnt. I think cars should be on the list but one should depreciate them on paper by a logical amount each period. I just sold one of our cars - the sell price was within 4% of what I had listed for depreciated value so I was pretty darn accurate on that and the selling event had no impact on NW.

When you say consulting for automation, I assume you are doing high level consulting, rather than actual programming? To kick out on your own after 12 yrs experience is impressive. I have 17yrs experience now in a very narrow field (also O&G). I'm at the point I could probably go alone and be taken seriously.


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## tdiddy

+1 for net worth before tax implications. its simply too unpredictable to involve taxes and makes the whole exercise too complicated for what its worth imho. Tax rates policies can change pretty significantly election to election, especially for those with higher net worth's.


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## Retiredguy

tdiddy said:


> +1 for net worth before tax implications. its simply too unpredictable to involve taxes and makes the whole exercise too complicated for what its worth imho. Tax rates policies can change pretty significantly election to election, especially for those with higher net worth's.



For my stock portfolio I have a created a excel sheet and can 
determine my tax owing amount and net amount very easily in seconds based on current stock prices. If tax rates change I can change the rate by changing one cell in the sheet. Presently my portfolio holds a tax liability of 17% which I consider very relevant in considering my NW.

There really is no right or wrong it just depends on how accurate one wants to be. I only consider my net portfolio and my house for NW. I ignore cars, boats, other toys etc, even some other RE which is significant. One piece would if sold generate a tax loss.

One of the other posters suggest the trend was the most important …… fair enough.


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## milhouse

Great numbers Forebiz.

--

IMO, how you go about your NW type calculations is about what you're trying to show or analyze. For me, my totals include only assets that I'm hoping to use to generate cashflow for retirement. I then analyze taxes via TaxTip's calculators. 
If I wanted to check how solvent I was, I would include all my assets. But even then so many things are fluid like how much you could truly sell your hard assets for. I would also agree tax analysis at that point would depend on too many variables.


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## tdiddy

Retiredguy said:


> For my stock portfolio I have a created a excel sheet and can
> determine my tax owing amount and net amount very easily in seconds based on current stock prices. If tax rates change I can change the rate by changing one cell in the sheet. Presently my portfolio holds a tax liability of 17% which I consider very relevant in considering my NW.
> 
> There really is no right or wrong it just depends on how accurate one wants to be. I only consider my net portfolio and my house for NW. I ignore cars, boats, other toys etc, even some other RE which is significant. One piece would if sold generate a tax loss.
> 
> One of the other posters suggest the trend was the most important …… fair enough.


If you are planning on taking out all the money in the short term to say, pay a departure tax, buy a retirement house/land or something than your calculation seems valid. But if one wants to calculate how much money they will have for a long retirement, I don't see the point of trying to predict what the after tax value of OPs corporate investments when OP plans to gradually dividend them out during retirement. OAS, corp tax rates, corp tax rules, insurance rules, swap rules, personal tax rates etc etc no way to predict what they will be over the next 20+ years. 

I guess it would be reasonable to multiply TFSA/personal non-reg amounts by 20-30% or so if one wants to be more accurate when calculating asset allocation but beyond that I don't see the point.


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## Forebiz

nobleea said:


> When you say consulting for automation, I assume you are doing high level consulting, rather than actual programming? To kick out on your own after 12 yrs experience is impressive. I have 17yrs experience now in a very narrow field (also O&G). I'm at the point I could probably go alone and be taken seriously.


I do both high level consulting and programming. The main client I work with has a group of about 10 guys which lean on me as being a specialist. Don't get me wrong I'm not indispensable, half the reason I've been able to ride this is the relationships I've made. Funny enough as I typed in how many years I worked before going off on my own I thought to myself "That was stupid" but in the end the consultant I worked for provided no value to me as an employee. I was doing everything from business development to programming to project management to invoicing. It all worked in my favor.


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## tdiddy

I've got a similar financial target for early retirement goal as OP, thanks for sharing. Interesting to see your comments of working another 2 years to go from 4 to 5 mil. Out of curiosity, it that more about the absolute number (ie required for retirement income) or psychologically realizing that you can increase your net worth 25% in just two years?


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## Forebiz

tdiddy said:


> Interesting to see your comments of working another 2 years to go from 4 to 5 mil. Out of curiosity, it that more about the absolute number (ie required for retirement income) or psychologically realizing that you can increase your net worth 25% in just two years?


Between those options I would say its more about the number vs the amount the net worth could increase in two years, 5mil would make me feel very comfortable to retire young. Psychologically my bigger issue is negative perception I would potentially feel from others for quitting work so young not that two years makes much of a difference. I'd like to think that I'll continue to do some sort of work if I retire that young.


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## Forebiz

*Oct 1st 2018 Quarterly Update.*
Not much has changed in life, Net Worth is up about $82K from last quarter. I worked a fixed price job that went significantly over budget so I had to eat some time. Next couple quarters should be pretty busy.

*Assets:*
House - $611K
Vehicles - $53K
NRSP - $288K
RRSPs - $573K
TFSAs - $122K
RESPs - $101K
Cash - $13K
Business - $1046K

Total Assets - $2,796,000

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $11K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $2,796,000*


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## Forebiz

*Jan 1st 2019 Quarterly Update.*
It was a busy few months for me at work which helped negate the horrible market conditions. I've added in an additional asset that until now had never really considered part of my Net Worth. This is a whole life policy that I have been paying on for 19 years. The last payment is due next month. While I know now that this is not a great investment it actually wasn't as bad 20 years ago as one would be today and it is insurance. That being said it is now has a cash value of $32400 (It's a $600K policy and I've paid $34K in premiums for it). 

*Assets:*
House - $589.3K
Vehicles - $55.6K
NRSP - $253.3K
RRSPs - $553K
TFSAs - $107.2K
RESPs - $92.5K
Whole Life Cash Value - $32.4
Cash - $34.2K
Business - $1063.9K

Total Assets - $2,781,300

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $18.4K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $2,763,000*


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## Forebiz

*Mar 1st 2019 Quarterly Update*
Still busy at work and I expect to be busy through at least the rest of the year. With how well the market has been doing I've been eager to post another update as I crossed another major threshold. I was wrong about one more payment to the whole life policy apparently I have now fully paid it out so that saved me a couple thousand dollars. We are planning to do a few things around the house like replacing the shingles, gutters, and some other small updates. There is a chance that we will look at moving in the next few years but would be looking for a house that is in a nice location that is in need of a gut. We have a specific one in mind that someone is looking to downsize from. 

*Assets:*
House - $583.8K
Vehicles - $49.5K
NRSP - $286K
RRSPs - $595.6K
TFSAs - $131.3K
RESPs - $110.8K
Whole Life Cash Value - $38.4
Cash - $20.8K
Business - $1261.2K

Total Assets - $3,077,500

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $8.2K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,069,300*


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## Johnhurson

It all depends on your financial planning. If you have good money to support your finances, mortgage, bills, etc then its a good luck! I will be 40 after 2 years still standing with $60k annual income and paying of liabilities (credit, mortgage and auto loan repayment). My personal experience say never invest on a single place always split your money in different options and keep checking performance of your micro investments.


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## Forebiz

*July 1st 2019 Quarterly Update*
Still busy at work and I expect to be busy through at least the rest of the year. We did some work around the house, replaced the shingles, gutters, and some other small updates, might still do the exterior doors. Spent some significant money on the 20th Wedding Anniversary that I hadn't really though about on previous update. Definitely been spending more lately then I'm used to but times are good so why not.

*Assets:*
House - $597.9K
Vehicles - $47.7K
NRSP - $286.9K
RRSPs - $606.6K
TFSAs - $133.7K
RESPs - $112.7K
Whole Life Cash Value - $38.4
Cash - $17.3K
Business - $1374.2K

Total Assets - $3,215,300

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $25.1K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,190,200*


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## james4beach

Forebiz said:


> Between those options I would say its more about the number vs the amount the net worth could increase in two years, 5mil would make me feel very comfortable to retire young. Psychologically my bigger issue is negative perception I would potentially feel from others for quitting work so young not that two years makes much of a difference. I'd like to think that I'll continue to do some sort of work if I retire that young.


Maybe another way to think of this, instead of retiring young, is to tone down the pace of work. Perhaps allow the workload to reduce to the point where it occupies less of your life. Then you will have more time for family and life, but still would do some work and continue to bring income.

There is a danger in truly retiring when you're young. If you break off from the work world entirely (and let your connections and skills go stale) it would be harder to start up again later. Also, as you mentioned, there's the negative perception from other people.

I'm a bit younger than you and have already started reducing my pace of work. My plan is to continue working for another 40 years, but not at "full steam". I'm being very picky about what work I accept and how many hours of work I sign up for. So far, this feels like a nice way to balance the need to earn income, with the desire to have lots of time available.


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## kcowan

james4beach said:


> I'm a bit younger than you and have already started reducing my pace of work. My plan is to continue working for another 40 years, but not at "full steam". I'm being very picky about what work I accept and how many hours of work I sign up for. So far, this feels like a nice way to balance the need to earn income, with the desire to have lots of time available.


Good luck with that James. In my experience as one, management always knows the good producers and loads them up with extra challenges. It is very tough for the producer to not fall for this challenge. I hope you are the exception!


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## ian

^+1. Could not agree more.

Our finances increased very substantially between age 40 and age 50. And even more so between age 50 and age 59 when I retired early. Why? Because I used my initiative, worked smart, accepted challenge. Pay for performance bonus' and stock option benefit between ages 50 and 59 paved the way for a very secure early retirement. This would not have been possible if I had kept on doing what I was doing in my early 40's. In fact my job would have disappeared as many have in the IT industry. You can go from hero to zero as the clock ticks over to the new fiscal year. In a similar fashion, you may be judged by your performance on the last project AND judged in relation to the performance of others on the project. There is always someone with skill and ambition behind you.

When in comes to promotions, salary increases, downsizing, employers look at high performers, poor performers, and they look at those who are coasting. It is not only about today, it is also about the value that an employer believes that you will provide in the future, ie your willingness to grow, to learn, to accept challenges and responsibility. 

Don't fall into the trap of coasting. You could find yourself coasting into a downsize. It does not take long in the IT industry to fall behind or to viewed as someone who has fallen behind the curve. You need to constantly look ahead, re-invent yourself, update and sharpen your skills. If you are coasting at 45 or 50, chances are there is someone age 25-35 who is just as sharp as you, just as skilled, works for less money, and has ambition. You will be replaced. Employers watch for this.


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## james4beach

My point ian is that if you're financially already in a great spot, you can afford to dial down the work. Forebiz is talking about getting to $5 M. Surely he will have "enough" at some number of $ millions.

Yes of course someone who isn't pushing ahead at full steam won't get the best opportunities and best pay. That part is obvious.

What I'm suggesting is assessing whether you have enough, and then being willing at that point to ease off the work. Obviously this will come along with less pay and less opportunities, being replaced by others, etc. What does it matter? If he's at $5 M (or whatever will be enough) then any small amount of additional income will be enough for the rest of his life.


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## ian

I was never able to coast. Not in my nature so it is difficult for me to understand it. For me it was as much about not getting bored, wanting a change in the for of a new challenge.


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## james4beach

Why are you calling it coasting? You're using that word a lot and I don't understand what you mean by it.

There are so many waking hours in a week, let's say 100 hours. You need to eat, go to the bathroom, probably read a book once in a while, and you might even pursue some hobbies and pleasures. It comes down to a question of what % of those 100 hours a week you can work.

There's a finite amount of time. Needs also vary between individuals as there may be children, health concerns, or who knows what else going on.

I've tried working 60 hours in a week, 40 hours, and less. The work itself can be extremely engaging, challenging, and interesting no matter how many hours are spent working.

When you say 'coasting' it sounds like you mean a kind of disengagement with work where you take it easy and don't work hard. Consider for example 10 hours of work a week. That can be extremely hard, challenging work... it's not coasting just because it's lower than 60.

The OP, at $5 million, could do something like working 10-20 hours a week of the interesting and challenging work he likes. He will have more than enough money to live a great life, will continue to be intellectually challenged, and will probably keep seeing his net worth increase.


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## Forebiz

*Oct 1st 2019 Quarterly Update*
Work is all going to plan for the year. I have work scheduled for the first 6 months of next year and an estimate for another project that sounds promising. I have booked our annual winter vacation but flights were crazy expensive this year, I suspect it was due to reduced schedules with the 737 Max issues. I may look at evaluating spending a little closer, seems we are experiencing some lifestyle creep that I'd like to get under control. 

*Assets:*
House - $574.4K
Vehicles - $48.7K
NRSP - $295.3K
RRSPs - $612.9K
TFSAs - $136.6K
RESPs - $115.3K
Whole Life Cash Value - $38.4
Cash - $20.7K
Business - $1437.6K

Total Assets - $3,279,900

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $18.9K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,261,000*


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## Forebiz

Hey Guys,

At times I already see the writing on the wall for the work I'm doing. I watch certain guys in their 20s and am shocked at some of the things they can do. At this point in my career maintaining my work has more to do with experience and relationships then it does skill. At times I can still outproduce the young guys but it's more about working smarter then harder. When my main client is done with me I may no longer have the ambition to pursue more work in this field. Maybe I'll continue to do small jobs locally, maybe I'll flip houses, maybe I'll mow lawns and shovel snow, maybe I'll hop on a tractor and help out some farm family.


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## scorpion_ca

What is your yearly expenses excluding business expenses?


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## milhouse

Any thoughts around how you'll be using your Whole Life policy? Is it just for estate planning or do you have plans to do something out of the box like leveraging it as collateral for an investment loan or some other business venture?


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## Forebiz

scorpion_ca said:


> What is your yearly expenses excluding business expenses?


I would estimate that our current expenses are $110-120K a year including RESP/RRSP/TFSA investments. Post investment savings in todays dollars I would estimate in retirement if we maintained current lifestyle we would be $70-80K a year.


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## Forebiz

milhouse said:


> Any thoughts around how you'll be using your Whole Life policy? Is it just for estate planning or do you have plans to do something out of the box like leveraging it as collateral for an investment loan or some other business venture?


So the whole life policies are worth $600K as a death benefit. My thoughts would be to eventually leverage it if money is needed late in life but I would guess the kids will be getting it. When I called to ensure I was fully paid up for the policy the agent confirmed I did and encouraged me to cash out. I suspect many people don't fully pay into the policy and it is in their advantage for me to cash out.


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## Forebiz

*Jan 1st 2020 Quarterly Update*
It was my top billable year for work and it looks like this year will continue to be good. Not sure if I can exceed last years work profits as I am more or less capped out. Last year of my current work visa but client has just extended the contract I work through for another 5 years so hopefully my renewal works out when I apply late 2020. Market was pretty good to us this year as well although I'm not happy with my Canadian returns but I guess the US made up for it. Unfortunately I am finding our spending is creeping higher then I'd like, I wish I had the ambition to track it so I could see where we have gone off but I suspect it's not worth the anguish at this point. Maybe as I approach pulling the plug on work and continuing on after I'm no longer working I'll track spending. 

*Assets:*
House - $577.9K
Vehicles - $50.2K
NRSP - $296.1K
RRSPs - $632K
TFSAs - $140.8K
RESPs - $117.4K
Whole Life Cash Value - $38.4
Cash - $43.5K
Business - $1520.1K

*Total Assets - $3,416,400*

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $10.5K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,405,900*


----------



## Forebiz

*April 1st 2020 Quarterly Update*
My work year has started off strong but likely will be worse in the long run because of project cutbacks both due to Covid-19 and oil prices. Although I know markets will eventually bounce back it hurts to see that although I had my best year ever my net-worth went up $9300 this year and with investments falling over $300K in the quarter. This hurts but it could be a lot worse, I still have a job and everyone I know is healthy. I've moved some available cash into investment accounts and I expect my adviser will deploy it shortly. I plan to max my RRSPs for 2020 shortly as well to hopefully take advantage of a weakened market.

*Assets:*
House - $562K
Vehicles - $52.7K
NRSP - $243.2K
RRSPs - $587.8K
TFSAs - $131.3K
RESPs - $103.4K
Whole Life Cash Value - $42K
Cash - $37.7K
Business - $1332.7K

*Total Assets - $3,088,800

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $10.2K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,078,600*
Down $327.3K Previous Quarter
Up $9.3K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*July 1st 2020 Quarterly Update*
I've been one of the lucky in so far that Covid hasn't negatively affected my work. In fact even though I've been working from home this is the best first 6 month stretch I've ever had. I'm a pessimist so I am still expecting some downside. This quarter I will be looking to get an extension of 3 years on my work visa, this is getting harder to do with the current US administration. If I have issues I'm hoping Covid has proven that I don't need to be there physically to be an effective member of the team. 
Thankfully markets mostly recovered but I expect volatility for the rest of the year. I did put some cash into the markets when they dipped (RRSPs and Business Investing Accounts). Wish I had done more but my advisor took a cautious approach and left some cash to take advantage of more potential dips. 

*Assets:*
House - $588.5K
Vehicles - $48.7K
NRSP - $271.2K
RRSPs - $691.1K
TFSAs - $148.7K
RESPs - $110.2K
Whole Life Cash Value - $42K
Cash - $33.3K
Business - $1649K

*Total Assets - $3,582,700

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $6K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,576,700*
Up $498.1K Previous Quarter
Up $386.5K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*Oct 1st 2020 Quarterly Update*
Still lucky so far that Covid hasn't negatively affected my work, It has actually been my best corporate year ever. Started traveling back to the US in August for work and first trip went well. Work Visa was renewed for 3 years, It wasn't as easy as in the past as they requested more information from Lawyers that has never been asked for before but ultimately they granted it. Work is going good and it sounds like a few projects are likely to get funded that will keep me busy for 1-2 years. A house has gone up for sale in the neighborhood that we will likely make an offer on soon, its vintage 70s so we would be putting a lot more into it. I typically have never factored improvements in a property to Net Worth but will likely look into doing that for this one since it will be significant.


*Assets:*
House - $615.3K
Vehicles - $56.7K
NRSP - $280.1K
RRSPs - $722.8K
TFSAs - $154K
RESPs - $114.5K
Whole Life Cash Value - $42K
Cash - $48.7K
Business - $1827.6K

*Total Assets - $3,854,700

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $17.9K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $3,836,800*
Up $300.1K Previous Quarter
Up $575.8K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*Jan 1st 2021 Quarterly Update*
Although COVID didn't negatively affect me financially this year it hit close to home as a Co-Worker of 15+ years passed away Dec 21st from it. He was a great friend and I owe quite a bit to him for the years of promoting me for the work I do. I thanked him several times over the years for his support but I regret that I never got a chance to spend time with him in his home state of Texas where we had planned to watch some SpaceX launches and go fishing. 

It was my best corporate year ever. I only traveled for work 3 times this year but for longer trips partly in order to minimize the amount of times I had to self isolate in Canada. I have never in my career been home this much, it was great. Last update I mentioned that a house has gone up for sale, we made an offer but it instigated two other offers that were better. Ultimately the sale of the house fell through on inspection. They were still not interested in entertaining our offer and we were not willing to increase it at that time. The sellers decided to pull listing and wait until spring so we will see if we take another run at it then. Broke through 4 million!, 10 years ago I would have said this was my number to stop working but I no longer have a clearly defined number (Maybe 5?). My number will largely depend on lifestyle creep and whether I have enough self control to contain it.


*Assets:*
House - $592.2K
Vehicles - $49.0K
NRSP - $297.5K
RRSPs - $773.5K
TFSAs - $164.7K
RESPs - $124.4K
Whole Life Cash Value - $42.0K
Cash - $111.6K
Business - $1946.6K

*Total Assets - $4,101,500

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $5.9K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $4,095,600*
Up $298.8K Previous Quarter
Up $689.7K Previous Year


----------



## milhouse

Congrats on the success of your business. Those numbers are flying.


----------



## afulldeck

Forebiz said:


> *Goals:*
> My short term goal is to hit 2mil in investable assets and 3 mil net worth. Longer term goal is to retire as soon as possible but maybe continue to do the odd job. I feel a 4mil net worth should allow me to retire and feel that I can reach this by 2022 may continue to work until 5mil in 2024.


Congratulations. Looks like you are 1 year ahead of your target.


----------



## Forebiz

afulldeck said:


> Congratulations. Looks like you are 1 year ahead of your target.


Yes I've always been pretty conservative in my estimates but business has done better then expected. I do a new projection once a year and estimate just under 5mil by 2023 now. That projection has me making a similar (less then average amount) in business and a return of about 6% on investments.


----------



## afulldeck

Forebiz said:


> Yes I've always been pretty conservative in my estimates but business has done better then expected. I do a new projection once a year and estimate just under 5mil by 2023 now. That projection has me making a similar (less then average amount) in business and a return of about 6% on investments.


Are your retained earnings also invested or kept as cash?


----------



## Forebiz

afulldeck said:


> Are your retained earnings also invested or kept as cash?


I keep a bit in cash for operations but 80-90% is invested.


----------



## Forebiz

*Apr 1st 2021 Quarterly Update*
One year into Covid now and like everyone else I'm ready for it to be over. Last year was great but I believe I am now seeing the lagging effects on my work. The first three months for the year I've billed only 153 hours with the last two months being the 2 worst months I've ever had. Work is slower but my main issue with work is due to the Canadian government instituting more travel restrictions. I have decided not to travel but only because they have been extremely unclear about exemptions at the border. I believe I should be exempt however others that have travelled in similar situations have had mixed results. It seems strange that an individual border agent can interrupt the rules to suit how they feel at that moment. The fact we don't have a system in place where we can get pre-approved for travel at this point is costing this country money when it needs it most. (Rant over) 

This quarter I put more money into NRSP hoping to take advantage of speculation that the market will have a good year. We will see if that works out over the short term but the money is really there for long term anyways. The YOY increase is exceptional but not consistent with long term and due to the market downturn in the first quarter or 2020. Business assets dropped due to less incoming money but also because of the decrease value in the American dollar. My calculated real estate value is pretty much the highest I've ever had it but I feel its overvalued at the moment.

The best part of this quarter was to have plenty of free time to do what I wanted and to see that my net worth still increased without much work. I feel that this was due mostly to a great quarter in the market and not a sign that I am completely financially independent at current spend rate.

*Assets:*
House - $639.2K
Vehicles - $50.0K
NRSP - $424.9K
RRSPs - $785.5K
TFSAs - $183.0K
RESPs - $141.6K
Whole Life Cash Value - $45.6K
Cash - $67.2K
Business - $1922.8K

*Total Assets - $4,259,800

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $6.5K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $4,253,300*
Up $157.6K Previous Quarter
Up $1,174.7K Previous Year


----------



## My Own Advisor

Wow....well on your way.....

I recall from the start of your thread you were hoping to hit "4mil net worth should allow me to retire..."

With no debt I would hope. Sounds like you should at least be working part-time to stay active. 

Huge congrats but likely a lot of work to get there no doubt. 

How are you invested? Stocks? ETFs? Mix of both? Real estate? Other?


----------



## Forebiz

My Own Advisor said:


> Wow....well on your way.....
> 
> I recall from the start of your thread you were hoping to hit "4mil net worth should allow me to retire..."
> 
> With no debt I would hope. Sounds like you should at least be working part-time to stay active.
> 
> Huge congrats but likely a lot of work to get there no doubt.
> 
> How are you invested? Stocks? ETFs? Mix of both? Real estate? Other?


Thanks, It has been a fair amount of work with time away from family being the biggest sacrifice, There has been some luck involved too.

I am working part time right now but my plan has been to work full time for the next three years at least. Hoping work picks up shortly but no guarantee. 

No debt but have considered upgrading home but only if the right thing comes along as we are not actively looking.

My portfolio has quite a mix, about 5 years ago I moved my RRSPs, Business Investments, and NRSPs to RBC and Scotia Investment Managers. RBC got my RRSPs and Scotia got the rest. I initially did this to pit them against each other (without telling them that) but I've noticed that the returns tend to be similar. RBC is a Managed Portfolio that contains mutual funds, there are constant changes to the holdings which makes it impossible to track myself so I just ignore it. The Scotia account has a majority of stocks but also contains bonds and ETFs, I'm told its around a 65/35 split. I had a rental property for 7 years but I found my return wasn't good enough even before accounting for the effort so the only real estate I have now is my personal house and some corporate stock in that space. My kids RESPs are mostly in Mutual Funds, also have a crappy GIC I was conned into 15 years ago. Our TFSAs I decided to handle myself so I could see if there was any point having others manage our money. I've now moved the TFSAs in to Balanced ETFs as I've basically given up trying to beat the market. We have a couple whole life policies, I know the whole life policy thing is generally a bad idea but it now has a cash value of $10K more then we actually paid, same money invested likely would have made $30K but would we have invested it? I also have some crpto that I took a flyer on, it's quadrupled but I didn't put much.


----------



## peterk

Impressed that you have continued to resist upgrading your 600k home, with a 4M net worth and 3 growing kids!

I think if I were in your shoes I'd be breaking down by now and looking for that $1.5M 3,500sqft house with a big yard, to live so comfortably in -- but that's just me.


----------



## afulldeck

Forebiz said:


> *Apr 1st 2021 Quarterly Update*
> Business - $1922.8K
> 
> *Total Assets - $4,259,800*


Are you concerned that your retained earning are such large part of your Total Asset base?


----------



## nobleea

afulldeck said:


> Are you concerned that your retained earning are such large part of your Total Asset base?


What's the concern? I guess there could be a tax change which might make it inconvenient to have the majority of your retirement assets in a corp. But if not, they should be able to invest the money and flow dividends through the share structure without triggering a tax until its in their hands. I guess there's that passive income limit of $50K.


----------



## afulldeck

nobleea said:


> What's the concern? I guess there could be a tax change which might make it inconvenient to have the majority of your retirement assets in a corp. But if not, they should be able to invest the money and flow dividends through the share structure without triggering a tax until its in their hands. I guess there's that passive income limit of $50K.


Yes. I keep hearing rumblings that there are more changes coming, perhaps lowering the passive income or raising the tax rate further etc.


----------



## Forebiz

afulldeck said:


> Yes. I keep hearing rumblings that there are more changes coming, perhaps lowering the passive income or raising the tax rate further etc.


I'm not very concerned but mostly because my accountant isn't. I've asked him directly about the passive income limit of $50K and he doesn't think it will be a big issue. I figure they will get me one way or the other and right now its better to leave in company. If things change I don't know if they would make it worse off to have retained earnings in company.


----------



## Forebiz

peterk said:


> Impressed that you have continued to resist upgrading your 600k home, with a 4M net worth and 3 growing kids!
> 
> I think if I were in your shoes I'd be breaking down by now and looking for that $1.5M 3,500sqft house with a big yard, to live so comfortably in -- but that's just me.


It has been tempting and we even made an offer last year on a house that after major renovation may have come to that price but I don't find we need more space. In fact the 3000sqft house seems too big, We already have a room that tends to get used twice a year. I also don't want the kids too comfortable or they may never leave. 

I likely undervalue our house, it could be worth 700-750K. We really like the area we are in, it's somewhat secluded and has a huge lot (for city where we are) 12000sqft. House is 2400sqft 4 bedroom plus half finished basement with an additional bedroom. We like the neighbors for the most part and have trails that go through river valley area right outside the crescent. There are houses in the neighborhood that are assessed much higher (up to 3 mil) so in a lot of ways I feel like we are the poor people in the neighborhood. Some of those guys have even starting hiring our kids to do yard cleanup. 

When we initially bought our house we figured that based on lot prices in new areas we paid nearly nothing for the house and really bought a lot that the house happened to be on. Our thought was to someday demolish the house and build what we really wanted for the long term but over the 12 years we've probably put in 70-100K in improvements. Seems like a shame to demolish a perfectly good house.

You likely weren't looking for me justify myself but sometimes I need to justify myself to myself.


----------



## peterk

^ Oh I'm just stirring the pot, really  Sounds like a lovely house that doesn't need upgrading.

Myself I just chose also a 2,200sqft house with a 10,000 sqft lot. I think it's just about right to have the pleasant amenities of a "big" house and property (extra rooms, extra yard), but not so big that one is tempted to hire housekeepers, yard keepers, riding lawnmowers, etc.

And going from a 2-car garage 2-car driveway to those 3-car garage 6-car driveways of the bigger mansions, it seem inevitable that those people buy boats and RVs. Having an adequate yet restrained amount of parking helps in controlling any fleeting urges that float up to go buy big expensive toys.


----------



## Forebiz

peterk said:


> And going from a 2-car garage 2-car driveway to those 3-car garage 6-car driveways of the bigger mansions, it seem inevitable that those people buy boats and RVs. Having an adequate yet restrained amount of parking helps in controlling any fleeting urges that float up to go buy big expensive toys.


Sounds like we are on the same page when it comes to housing. I'd love the three car garage though, I currently have two sheds to store all the kid crap and yard stuff so we can both fit vehicles in garage.


----------



## Forebiz

*Jul 1st 2021 Quarterly Update*
COVID Ending?, Not yet convinced. The second quarter for the year and I've billed only 107 hours but I'm hoping with travel restrictions easing I will now be able to continue traveling back to US. I expect that it will still be a bit slow to ramp up. The cash available within the business is depleting so I've temporarily stopped paying salaries but continue to pay taxes that would otherwise be expected. 

This quarter my investments did quite well as the market continues to have a good year (Up 5% this quarter). My house value is also likely at its highest point ever. 

I've felt semi-retired for the last 6 months, my wife has started giving me the gears to get back to work but I'm somewhat unmotivated when I am still seeing my net worth going up. I still don't feel I'm financial independent and look at these increases in net worth more of a factor of a great year in the market combined with somewhat lower spending due to COVID. 

*Assets:*
House - $650.7K
Vehicles - $49.0K
NRSP - $449.2K
RRSPs - $821.5K
TFSAs - $193.4K
RESPs - $149.6K
Whole Life Cash Value - $45.6K
Cash - $64.9K
Business - $1994.9K

*Total Assets - $4,408,400

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $5.2K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $4,413,600*
Up $160.3K Previous Quarter
Up $876.9K Previous Year


----------



## scorpion_ca

You are already in FatFIRE.


----------



## Forebiz

*Oct 1st 2021 Quarterly Update*
Had my first trip back in 8 months to the US in September for work. Things went well and I expect to get some more work flowing in. I may never get back to my peak corporate income but that has a lot to do with motivation at this point.

Speaking of something to motivate me though, we bought a new (old) house so we are moving this month. My current house sold for about 50K (after fees) more then I estimated it was worth in the breakdown. I always knew it was worth a bit more but was conservative. 

*Assets:*
House - $704K
Vehicles - $49.0K
NRSP - $639.8K
RRSPs - $863.6K
TFSAs - $193.7K
RESPs - $150.2K
Whole Life Cash Value - $45.6K
Cash - $79.8K
Business - $2015.6K

*Total Assets - $4,741,300

Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $6.9K (credit cards are payed off every month)

*Net Worth: $4,734,400*
Up $320.8K Previous Quarter
Up $937.6K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*Jan 1st 2021 Quarterly Update*
I had hoped that my trips back to the US would start to become more regular this year but I'm not so sure now. I had hoped to make two trips in the fourth quarter but only ended up making one. I still hope to make two trips in the first quarter. 

The new to us house (built in 70s) has many of the things we've always wanted. Large attached heated garage, large lot with a view, quiet and private. House was vacant for some time and hasn't been without issues. We were expecting more work and fixes but have had two appliances fail and some dampers, fans, thermostats, hot water tank issues. I spent some time crunching numbers before we purchased (Mortgage, Property Tax, Utility Increases, Maintenance Costs) and we decided that after all the years of saving that it was time to splurge. 

Corporately this year was the worst I've had in the 10 years I've been on my own. Next year won't be breaking any records either but I hope to be about average. This being said the investment returns have been so good it negated the corporate bad year. About 5 years ago I decided to go with two different advisors as my wife and I had different opinions after interviewing them. I gave them full control without meddling in what they did. The conservative very balanced portfolio has now returned 8.1% YOY, the less balanced manager has returned 11.1% YOY, I decided to keep the TFSAs and have done 7.3% YOY. The leader between the two managers has shifted at times when the market has been weak but I have consistently been the weakest link.

Some notes:
-I decided not to state mortgage amount and represented house value as equity.
-NRSP was done significantly in order to increase down payment on home.
-Vehicles went up in value... It's crazy that lack of supply has done this.

*Assets:*
House Equity - $1301.9K
Vehicles - $52.0K
NRSP - $361.5K
RRSPs - $900.4K
TFSAs - $203.2K
RESPs - $160.5K
Whole Life Cash Value - $45.6K
Cash - $112.7K
Business - $2123.6K

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - Credit cards are payed off every month
Mortgage - 1.2% Variable

*Net Worth: $5,251,500*
Up $516.8K Previous Quarter
Up $1155.5K Previous Year


----------



## Jamesdean

I'm guessing you've planned for the big tax hit for drawing down your NRSP ?


----------



## Forebiz

Jamesdean said:


> I'm guessing you've planned for the big tax hit for drawing down your NRSP ?


Not really, A lot of what was taken out was only contributed in the last 9 months. Some of what was pulled was in bonds and some had light gains. I hope I don't own a lot but I guess I'll find out soon.


----------



## peterk

peterk said:


> I think if I were in your shoes I'd be breaking down by now and looking for that $1.5M 3,500sqft house with a big yard, to live so comfortably in -- but that's just me.





Forebiz said:


> It has been tempting





Forebiz said:


> The new to us house has many of the things we've always wanted.... and we decided that after all the years of saving that it was time to splurge.
> 
> *Assets:*
> House Equity - $1301.9K


Muahaha! My work here is done 

That's great though. Things are looking nothing but up for your family! Are you planning on continuing with the dialed back work schedule indefinitely, then, and living with a lower income (and your huge investments)? I sure would be.


----------



## Forebiz

peterk said:


> Muahaha! My work here is done
> 
> That's great though. Things are looking nothing but up for your family! Are you planning on continuing with the dialed back work schedule indefinitely, then, and living with a lower income (and your huge investments)? I sure would be.


I wish we had more self control on the housing but we didn't. I convinced my wife to low ball an offer secretly hoping that they wouldn't even acknowledge it and to my surprise they said offer was fair. 

I'm not entirely sure yet but I would say I'm not trying to scale back much for two years however things may naturally scale back.


----------



## Saintor

It was already mentioned a few years ago, but business $ as an asset that can't be sold without you... is not really an asset.


----------



## Forebiz

Saintor said:


> It was already mentioned a few years ago, but business $ as an asset that can't be sold without you... is not really an asset.


This is investments and cash within the business, not the value of the business which I agree is not an asset.


----------



## Saintor

Forebiz said:


> This is investments and cash within the business, not the value of the business which I agree is not an asset.


Well you even have more my attention now.  Did you enjoy tangible benefits investing through your corporation? I asked this very QUESTION a few days ago. Feel free to answer in my thread if you wish so.


----------



## Forebiz

Saintor said:


> Well you even have more my attention now.  Did you enjoy tangible benefits investing through your corporation? I asked this very QUESTION a few days ago.


I started off investing within the corporation because we didn't need as much money for our lifestyle as we were making. This helped control spending but also allowed us to have some security in case work load decreased (Hello Covid). My longer term goal was to, at some point, retire early while continuing to pull a salary our of the corporation. 

By pulling less out of the company I keep ourselves below the higher tax bracket. I believe my corporate tax rate is significantly lower but I am getting close to the point where the investment earnings may be taxed at a higher rate. So far the accountant has managed to avoid this but tells me it's coming. The money in business investment account has grown by over $600K so I'm pretty sure it's been worth it for me.

I probably didn't quite address your question but if you can figure out how to get that money out of the business tax free to buy your Bentley let me know. Accountant said something about a "Pipeline Strategy" and was going to have me talk to a lawyer. Said it involved selling the company to a numbered company and taking lifetime personal exemption of $800K or so each. Might look into that over the next bit and see if its something worthwhile but for now I'm happy to try and continue growing within business.


----------



## Forebiz

*Apr 1st 2022 Quarterly Update*
I still haven't resumed travelling to the US yet but I have a trip booked for the end of this month. There has been management changes in the company I do the majority of my work for where they have promoted WFH more. Because of this they have also pushed back on some of my travel attempts as they rightfully feel the work can be done without me travelling. My billing has increased significantly from last year but ti now where near the peak I have seen in the past. I expect work to be busy but not craazy the next two years which suits me just fine.

I perhaps didn't do the right thing going into a variable rate mortgage but I'm not going to sweat it. I estimated utilities to double but because of increased rates it's probably closer to triple my old house. I have always struggled with pegging a number to the house in net worth and have ultimately been low on the estimate when the last two properties I have owned have sold. My method has been to peg the property I owned to the average resale in the month I bought and linearly price the property to the current average in the area. I am going to continue to do this for now but seeing how much things have gone up in three months I think I may need to revist this strategy. I don't know if a high value property maintains the same linearity and I suspect with interest rates rising there could be a drop.

One of the charts I made for myself several years ago showed the relationship between my business billing and my net worth increase over the previous year. My thought process was if I saw my net worth increasing by more then my billing that I had hit the point where I wouldn't need to work anymore and my net worth would continue to increase. This is a flawed thought process I'm sure in several ways but it's nice to see that my net worth line has been higher for a year and a half now. 

*Assets:*
House Equity - $1489.9K
Vehicles - $57.0K
NRSP - $355.4K
RRSPs - $848.9K
TFSAs - $212.4K
RESPs - $173.3K
Whole Life Cash Value - $48.6K
Cash - $126.1K
Business - $2184.0K

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $7.4K (Credit cards are payed off every month)
Mortgage - 1.45% Variable

*Net Worth: $5,488,200*
Up $217.0K Previous Quarter
Up $1214.9K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*Jul 1st 2022 Quarterly Update*
Work is back in full swing. Client has decided WFH is not necessarily ideal for themselves and are getting me back to traveling. It was nice being home but being in the clients face ultimately gets me more work. Billing has picked up as expected and work level is what I expected.

Variable rate mortgage keeps going up which is unfortunate but I expect the increases to level off yet this year. I'm seeing a slight drop in property values but oil and gas prices being high and low unemployment should hold prices fairly steady is my guess.

I took a beating like everyone else in the investments so my quarterly net worth is down but my annual is still good. I have high hopes things will turn around yet this year.

*Assets:*
House Equity - $1439.9K
Vehicles - $59.0K
NRSP - $317.8K
RRSPs - $762.2K
TFSAs - $187.8K
RESPs - $156.9K
Whole Life Cash Value - $48.6K
Cash - $156.9K
Business - $1845.9K

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $14.5K (Credit cards are payed off every month)
Mortgage - 1.45% Variable

*Net Worth: $4,949,800*
Down $498.4K Previous Quarter
Up $516.2K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*Oct 1st 2022 Quarterly Update*
Work is steady and likely will be through most of next year. Shaping up to be one of my better years for billables.

Last quarter I said "variable rate mortgage keeps going up which is unfortunate, but I expect the increases to level off yet this year. I'm seeing a slight drop in property values but oil and gas prices being high and low unemployment should hold prices fairly steady is my guess." Prices have dropped a bit YoY but I don't plan to move anytime soon. 

Still taking a beating like everyone else in the investments but not as bad as last quarter. My quarterly net worth is down, and my annual net is flat. I wish the latest rally happened last week. It would have made me feel better a bit better but no use lying to myself and using today's numbers. I read that the last 3 inflation peaks above 6% lead to the S&P 500 being up about 30% in the following 12 months. Let's hope we are at peak inflation and that trend continues.

*Assets:*
House Equity - $1381.2K
Vehicles - $59.0K
NRSP - $313.6K
RRSPs - $751.9K
TFSAs - $185.6K
RESPs - $154.4K
Whole Life Cash Value - $48.6K
Cash - $50.2K
Business - $1858.9K

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $12.2K (Credit cards are paid off every month)
Mortgage - 4.2% Variable (Forgot to update this number in last quarter update 3.45%)

*Net Worth: $4,791,100*
Down $161.2K Previous Quarter
Up $36.8K Previous Year


----------



## Forebiz

*Jan 1st 2023 Quarterly Update*
Work finished strong and was my second highest billable year on record.

Variable rate mortgages continue to go up which is unfortunate for me having one but it sounds like the financial pros fell the interest rates will go up a bit more but not much. House prices have also continue to drop which is negatively affecting my Net Worth.

Investments went up a bit this quarter but also down over the year. I have not contributed much to investments during this down cycle and will not contribute much this year as I've made it a priority to accelerate mortgage payments and have also been advised to consider stopping RRSP contributions. My quarterly net worth is up, and my annual net is down significantly. I'm hoping this year the market recovers and we don't have a recession.

*Assets:*
House Equity - $1227K
Vehicles - $55.0K
NRSP - $325.1K
RRSPs - $790.8K
TFSAs - $194.8K
RESPs - $162.8K
Whole Life Cash Value - $48.6K
Cash - $84.6K
Business - $1987.5K

*Liabilities:*
Credit Cards - $13.3K (Credit cards are paid off every month)
Mortgage - 5.2% Variable (My initial rate was 1.2% Oct 2021)

*Net Worth: $4,862,800*
Up $71.7K Previous Quarter
Down $408.3K Previous Year


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## bigmoneytalks

Forebiz said:


> *Jan 1st 2023 Quarterly Update*
> Work finished strong and was my second highest billable year on record.
> 
> Variable rate mortgages continue to go up which is unfortunate for me having one but it sounds like the financial pros fell the interest rates will go up a bit more but not much. House prices have also continue to drop which is negatively affecting my Net Worth.
> 
> Investments went up a bit this quarter but also down over the year. I have not contributed much to investments during this down cycle and will not contribute much this year as I've made it a priority to accelerate mortgage payments and have also been advised to consider stopping RRSP contributions. My quarterly net worth is up, and my annual net is down significantly. I'm hoping this year the market recovers and we don't have a recession.
> 
> *Assets:*
> House Equity - $1227K
> Vehicles - $55.0K
> NRSP - $325.1K
> RRSPs - $790.8K
> TFSAs - $194.8K
> RESPs - $162.8K
> Whole Life Cash Value - $48.6K
> Cash - $84.6K
> Business - $1987.5K
> 
> *Liabilities:*
> Credit Cards - $13.3K (Credit cards are paid off every month)
> Mortgage - 5.2% Variable (My initial rate was 1.2% Oct 2021)
> 
> *Net Worth: $4,862,800*
> Up $71.7K Previous Quarter
> Down $408.3K Previous Year


I'm surprised you add vehicles to your networth, unless you're driving a classic, I generally don't consider them an appreciating asset which you want in NW calculations


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## nobleea

bigmoneytalks said:


> I'm surprised you add vehicles to your networth, unless you're driving a classic, I generally don't consider them an appreciating asset which you want in NW calculations


Networth doesn't make a distinction between appreciating or depreciating assets. It's a balance sheet. One wouldn't include cash and GICs then since they are depreciating assets in real terms.


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## MrBlackhill

nobleea said:


> Networth doesn't make a distinction between appreciating or depreciating assets. It's a balance sheet. One wouldn't include cash and GICs then since they are depreciating assets in real terms.


On the other end, vehicles aren't equity you'll use to fund your retirement, unless you sell them obviously but if you need them for their utility, then you won't sell them, as opposed to all the other things listed which can be used to fund the retirement. Otherwise, why not include the value of appliances, furniture, computers, TV, clothing, jewelry, etc in the net worth?

In his case, the $55k vs his net worth of nearly $5M doesn't make a difference so I wouldn't bother. But would you say that a 25-year-old kid who owns nothing else than a $50k stock portfolio and a $50k car that he needs everyday for work has a net worth of $100k or $50k? If you say $100k then why not add the $15k worth of appliances and $10k worth of furniture to boost that number to $125k?

I know that some people here add the vehicles in their net worth but I also find it a bit odd.

Sure, if a lender is evaluating your net worth in case you go bankrupt you could list all of your belongings, but I'm personally looking at my net worth to fund my retirement and as a portfolio of assets classes which are stocks, fixed income, cash, precious metals, real estate and alternative investments.


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## Forebiz

I've heard people argue that a house shouldn't be part of net worth either because you always need somewhere to live, obvious arguments against that. My vehicles have been in my Net Worth Calc going back to 1998, they are almost a rounding error now but meant something to me even a little more then 10 years ago. 

Having done my fathers estate the last year I can tell you possessions outside vehicles have almost no resale value and in some cases cost money to just dispose of when they can't be given away for free. The vehicle was quick and easy to sell and for a decent price but the time I spent selling possessions was not worth the time. Speaking of depreciating assets his house still hasn't sold and is pending an offer of 15% less then he paid 10 years ago. Despite what your friendly REA or FA will tell you properties don't always appreciate.


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