# Security Jitters



## Cake money (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm getting close to working up the nerve to move my investments from my broker to Questrade. I am getting nervous about having everything in one brokerage. Do the DIY invester types here have similar concerns? Should I use a couple of different brokers? Maybe %50 Questrade and for the long-term investments that won't be moved around with someone like TD or CIBC. Is there a max investment amount that you would not feel comfortable having with Questrade?


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I have all of my investments with CIBC Investors Edge and it works perfectly for my needs. I also bank with CIBC.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Cake money said:


> I'm getting close to working up the nerve to move my investments from my broker to Questrade. I am getting nervous about having everything in one brokerage. Do the DIY invester types here have similar concerns? Should I use a couple of different brokers? Maybe %50 Questrade and for the long-term investments that won't be moved around with someone like TD or CIBC. Is there a max investment amount that you would not feel comfortable having with Questrade?


I absolutely have concerns, a handfull of times i've had issues with an institution.
A few times banks have gone outs.
Once they messed up and were unwilling to help, walk across the street to my other bank, and they were eager to help.
Sometimes a credit card network goes out, or a company has trouble with their infrastructure.
Right now both our cell phones are with Fido/Rogers, I'm actually thinking of switching one to Bell due to the outtage.
Not because I think Rogers is worse, but I'd like to have 1 working cell phone in my house.

I bank at 2 banks, my paycheck goes in one, my wifes the other.
RRSP at one bank, LIRA at the other.
1 Visa, 1 MC

I think it just makes sense.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

I guess it makes sense.

We bank with TD and will likely never leave because we're grandfathered into a zero-fee plan.

We have our portfolios in 3 institutions; 
-wife's stuff is all in Waterhouse 
-my RRSP/TFSA with Questrade
-my margin non-registered with IB, although I'd like to migrate that to Questrade eventually.

I don't have much use for IB anymore, I no longer actively trade. Now I only hold ETFs with Q.
And IB's tax reporting is horrendous.


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## Numbersman61 (Jan 26, 2015)

My main banking and investments are with TD. However, I do have accounts (including credit cards) with two other banks - just in case TD‘s network goes down. I never use debit cards at retail establishments as I consider there Is a considerable risk of my pin being stolen.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Numbersman61 said:


> I never use debit cards at retail establishments as I consider there Is a considerable risk of my pin being stolen.


Same here.
Really using debit cards, is just nuts, you're giving people access to your bank account.

Credit cards, you're legally protected from fraud. This also means they love shutting them off when there are suspicious transactions.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I have no issues keeping everything under one roof. I bank with Scotia and they provide everything I need - I especially like their iTrade platform.

Keeping things under one also saves you lots of fees. I pay 0 fees for my banking accounts, 0 for my brokerage accounts, and my credit card offers a hefty cash back - essentially, I am paid to bank with them!

Our banking system in Canada is very different than elsewhere. I have no concerns.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Response to OP questions: 

Good to have a backup account (bank and/or brokerage) if you don't mind dealing with 2 institutions plus multiple accounts at these 2 places. Anything more than that can get out of hand, if not more work.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mortgage u/w said:


> I have no issues keeping everything under one roof. I bank with Scotia and they provide everything I need - I especially like their iTrade platform.
> 
> Keeping things under one also saves you lots of fees. I pay 0 fees for my banking accounts, 0 for my brokerage accounts, and my credit card offers a hefty cash back - essentially, I am paid to bank with them!
> 
> Our banking system in Canada is very different than elsewhere. I have no concerns.


Same benefits here, except I'm dealing with 2 banks. 

When bank 1 has issues, I continue on with bank 2. I have a very low risk tolerance for some things.

I'd estimate on average there is about 1-2 problems with each bank I deal with.
I also remember a few times where the credit card fails to work, it's nice just to pull out a different one.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> Same benefits here, except I'm dealing with 2 banks.
> 
> When bank 1 has issues, I continue on with bank 2. I have a very low risk tolerance for some things.
> 
> ...


In all the years I've banked with the same institution, not once have I encountered a problem. I manage everything online and also, no issues. To be honest, the only time I ever walked into the branch was the odd currency exchange. 

What problems are you encountering that seem to occur every 6 months?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I have don't have problems keep everything under one roof, that was my preference, however I have moved accounts only because I could get a better service or another place met my needs better. I move only what I need to.

My main banking now is TD - it has my main banking accounts and main credit card, my DIY accounts (TSFA, kids in trust investment accounts, and non registered). It used to have one of our first mortgages because that's what my spouse did. We have generally liked their services for the self serve stuff they do

RBC - has my investments managed by my advisor (RESP, RRSPs, LIRAs, and business investments). We moved these over from another advisor. We go here because we trust the advisor, and will leave when we no longer do. RBC also has our corporation account, it was the best at the time when we set up for us, and they haven't ticked us off.

CIBC - has our other mortgages. We went with them because our mortgage broker we will liked was there. He is retiring now, so if we buy more places in the future, we may go elsewhere.

Tangerine - hold our 'savings' accounts. We have large amounts we save before we invest for the kids and us. This has our emergency and cash funds not for day to day banking. They had the best HISA at the time. We know we can move it to get higher, but we like to keep it simple.

So, if there was one bank that did all that we wanted, we we would go with them, instead we are diversified only due to the situation.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mortgage u/w said:


> In all the years I've banked with the same institution, not once have I encountered a problem. I manage everything online and also, no issues. To be honest, the only time I ever walked into the branch was the odd currency exchange.
> 
> What problems are you encountering that seem to occur every 6 months?


Most common is simply a maintainance outage or upgrade.
But I'm in my online banking almost every other day.
If BNS is down, I'll simply pay my hydro bill from TD, no problem.

I pay all bills promptly upon getting them, either that evening, or at the latest the next morning.

Only a few times has there been a serious problem with the bank itself, maybe a handful of times over the decades.
most often it's a Visa or MC network issue, which is why I'll always hold both cards.

As far as how often it actually happens. TD apparently had a major outtage in Feb. I didn't notice, or I just simply shifted to BNS.








TD Bank Suffers Outage; Says Security Not An Issue


TD Bank suffered a major IT systems outage that prevented users from accessing their online accounts, using ATMs and more. The system is now back online.




www.pymnts.com





Like I said, I've got a low risk tolerance for this, so I try not to have a SPOF (Single point of failure).


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Very happy with CIBC for day to day banking. For 40 years. But now, only free senior current account and a safe deposit box. Other deposits with EQ, investments with another financial group.

Very unhappy with CIBC's fee for service investment advisory service. We moved our investments away from them ten years ago. We subsequently learned that we were not alone in doing so and apparently CIBC made changes to the program. It was only after we moved that we began to realize how poor the service really was. The trick is to have the right advisor, the right fee structure, the right advice for your situation, and the right attached services. We shopped around. Spoke to a number of colleagues and to a few advisors.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> Very happy with CIBC for day to day banking. For 40 years. But now, only free senior current account and a safe deposit box. Other deposits with EQ, investments with another financial group.
> 
> Very unhappy with CIBC's fee for service investment advisory service. We moved our investments away from them ten years ago. We subsequently learned that we were not alone in doing so and apparently CIBC made changes to the program. It was only after we moved that we began to realize how poor the service really was. The trick is to have the right advisor, the right fee structure, the right advice for your situation, and the right attached services. We shopped around. Spoke to a number of colleagues and to a few advisors.


CIBC is a cesspool.
I was personally stolen from, I know 2 people who had funds fraudulently withdrawn and were never reimbursed.
I know people who worked there, they left due to the unethical sales practices.

Just to be clear I was about 12, I had a paper route that required direct deposit.
I had a youth account (ie no fees)
Someone decided to change my youth account to a premium high fee account without telling me.
Imagine my surprise after working for months, going to check my bank balance and finding it was overdrawn, and they refused to refund the stolen funds. Back in the 80's losing nearly $100 was a lot to preteen MrMatt, I'll never forgive them.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

I have two brokerage accounts with two major banks, for mostly the same reasons MrMatt already listed.

I would add that they don't have quite the same features so I get access to more stuff. This is true both on the bank side and the brokerage side. It's also easier to shop for a mortgage or some other form of credit when the bank already has you in their system with a long history and a large investment account.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

I have a "paper route" story of my own. I was about 10 years old with a paper route and I walked into the local Royal Bank to open an account. They told me to get lost. "Banks are for grownups".

So I went across the street to Canada Trust. The manger came out, shook my hand and welcomed me warmly. They setup my account, gave me a gift (a little travel alarm clock) and put $2 in my account to get me started. I felt really special as a young kid. 
That was nearly 50 years ago, and I'm still with them. They way they welcomed me clearly paid off.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

dotnet_nerd said:


> I have a "paper route" story of my own. I was about 10 years old with a paper route and I walked into the local Royal Bank to open an account. They told me to get lost. "Banks are for grownups".
> 
> So I went across the street to Canada Trust. The manger came out, shook my hand and welcomed me warmly. They setup my account, gave me a gift (a little travel alarm clock) and put $2 in my account to get me started. I felt really special as a young kid.
> That was nearly 50 years ago, and I'm still with them. They way they welcomed me clearly paid off.


Yeah, my kids get treated very nicely at their bank as well.

Also these days you have a right to a bank account, and I don't think there is an age limit.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

off.by.10 said:


> I have two brokerage accounts with two major banks, for mostly the same reasons MrMatt already listed.
> 
> I would add that they don't have quite the same features so I get access to more stuff. This is true both on the bank side and the brokerage side. It's also easier to shop for a mortgage or some other form of credit when the bank already has you in their system with a long history and a large investment account.


Well actually I have 3 brokerage accounts for that reason.
TD Action list is an excellent report.


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## Fain (Oct 11, 2009)

Cake money said:


> I'm getting close to working up the nerve to move my investments from my broker to Questrade. I am getting nervous about having everything in one brokerage. Do the DIY invester types here have similar concerns? Should I use a couple of different brokers? Maybe %50 Questrade and for the long-term investments that won't be moved around with someone like TD or CIBC. Is there a max investment amount that you would not feel comfortable having with Questrade?


Questrade got into trouble awhile ago and had to borrow money at rates like 12% from lenders. They don't have a large equity cushion in the brokerage.


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## Fain (Oct 11, 2009)

Cake money said:


> I'm getting close to working up the nerve to move my investments from my broker to Questrade. I am getting nervous about having everything in one brokerage. Do the DIY invester types here have similar concerns? Should I use a couple of different brokers? Maybe %50 Questrade and for the long-term investments that won't be moved around with someone like TD or CIBC. Is there a max investment amount that you would not feel comfortable having with Questrade?


Stick with a well-financed broker with a decent amount of equity. Interactive brokers is good, I use PI financial for one of my corporate accounts but only for exercising stock options/shorting/cert deposits.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Between my wife and me, we have accounts with all the big six banks. Many of them hold only the required minimum and we get notices of their dormancy. We hold those for the only purpose that they were required to service the bank mutual fund investments we had long ago.

However, most of our cash is with PC Financial (now Simplii Financial) and Tangerine for their high interest but we still keep TD Canada Trust for the access to tellers for things I don't trust or can't do at the ATM or purely online.

As for brokerage accounts, almost all my securities are with BMO Investorline. When I opened my first brokerage account in the early 1990s, BMO's trading commission was the lowest at $25 per trade compared to others that were charging $35 and $45 per trade. Now all those big bank brokerages are charging $9.95 but through my Engineering Association, I was able to get a better rate at BMO.

So when Questrade came out, I looked at the rates and all those rules and they didn't look anymore appealing to justify moving some of my money there. However, with WealthSimple Trade's zero commission, I would be able to manage small quantity trades in a low balance account. I don't care that it doesn't have any of the features we are so used to at big bank brokerages like research and real-time level II quotes, because I can use BMO's features for those and Yahoo Finance looks pretty good.


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