# Snowbirds...where to start.



## frdm45 (Aug 20, 2010)

Hey all,

I was layed off recently and starting to think about doing some traveling to warmer climates. I have very little experience traveling outside Canada.

I'm looking at either a long road trip through southern U.S. or a couple months further south.

My problem is the high cost of accommodations. Staying at hotels for $100.00/night doesn't make much sense.

So what's my starting point to get decent accommodations at reasonable rates.

If I go with the road trip, I was thinking AirBNB...only problem I could see with this is that you have to stick to a strict schedule (most places offer no refunds unless you cancel 5 days in advance).

If I opt for longer term at 1 specific place outside U.S., what would be the recommended way of getting accommodations? (appt rental, time share rental, bed and breakfast ??) . Any recommendations for web sites?

How did existing snowbirds start out when planning their trips south?

Cheers!


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

We've taken this everywhere from Mexico to PEI to Florida Keys etc for years. No bed bugs,schedule,bad food or limits to your stay. Noisy neighbor? Just start engine & leave.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

frdm45 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I was layed off recently and starting to think about doing some traveling to warmer climates. I have very little experience traveling outside Canada.
> 
> ...


CRAIGSLIST-search furnished apts wherever you want to go for warm weather.


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## naysmitj (Sep 16, 2014)

You don't need a big RV. Look for a small used 22 to 24 foot class C. Fair mileage, comfortable travel and lots of overnight options from free to expensive.

Cheers


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

I would say that what Eder proposes is a lifestyle choice. Some people love the whole RV experience, others don't. Some love it, even if it is not the best choice purely from a cost perspective.

My sister and brother-in-law have a fifth wheel RV they purchased new. I don't know what they paid, but it's fairly high-end and maybe came in at about $100,000. Then add about $70,000 for the big diesel pickup to pull it. Most years, they haul it from Ontario to Florida and park it in quite a nice RV park and have the benefit of what I think RVers call "hookups", internet, etc. They pay about USD1,100/mo. for the privilege.

That RV sees little use for the rest of the year. They pay to store it, insure it and maintain it. They pay for the extra fuel (above passenger car consumption) to haul it. It's a depreciating asset.

I would guess that, taking into account the capital tied up, the depreciation, the operating and "moorage" costs, etc., they could probably fund a 2-month stay in quite nice rental accommodation if they did not have their fifth wheel. But, as I say, the whole RV thing seems to be a lifestyle thing and that's what attracts them. They have the financial means not to care that their choice is an expensive one.

Eder's rig is a bit different, but many of the same principles apply. No truck needed to pull it, but many one sees in southern US and Mexico driven by Canadians have cars pulled behind. Some people do not care to drive a 50-foot bus to the local Publix to pick up a few groceries. It has also struck me that with no car available, if the bus or motorhome needs engine or other service, one is a bit stranded. I some places I guess a rental car is a prospect.


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## bobsyouruncle (Dec 25, 2016)

Or just use Booking.com and select when and where you want to stay on the day. No need to book too far in advance.

For the most part, US is much cheaper than Canada for places like Super 8 and so on (although the conversion rate might nullify that a bit), but it depends how upmarket you want your accommodation to be.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

If you're going for a couple of months you could look into extended stay hotels. These normally have a lower per-night rate if you book longer periods, and they have kitchenettes in the rooms so you don't have to eat out all the time. 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/HotelsList-Florida-Hotels-With-Monthly-Rates-zfp622827.html

Or, on sites like VRBO, there are often longer stays available at a discount. I pasted an example below but there are lots, just put in your dates and sort by price. Or just set a hard ceiling in your filters and sort by whatever you want!

https://www.vrbo.com/707387


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

These are directly from my personal wishlist. I grabbed some rough prices by entering May 1 - May 15. In general look among the known-to-be-cheap countries, like Spain, Portugal (for their islands), and of course the balkans such as Croatia, perhaps Greece

*Idea #1: Canary Islands*

For example, Costa Teguise on Lanzarote. A quick search on booking.com shows Molino de Guatiza, 8 minute walk from the beach, at $803 or $57 per day ... I repeat, fifty-seven dollars a day. I didn't even optimize this search. Weather in May is about 20 to 25 C.

A few years ago I spent a week like this in Lanzarote, in an apartment that cost approx $50/day (the Canadian dollar was higher) or almost what I paid for my apartment in Canada. It was heaven.

*Idea #2: European vacation packages*

I discovered this when I was in London. Just as we here in Canada have incredibly good package vacations to Cuba, Europeans have access to excellent packages to places like I mentioned above, and many others. You could use their web sites like lastminute.com as a starting point.

I searched for hotels on Majorca and (within minutes) found Naika, which are apartments. Buy your own groceries, make your own food, etc. A studio apartment costs ... if I'm not having a stroke ... 343 GBP = $567 or *$41 per day*. I think the weather would be 15 to 20 C.

Always check tripadvisor for the reviews. Both of the properties I mentioned here are decent looking apartments.

So there you go ... take your pick. Two examples, $57/day or $41/day, for apartments located close to the sea, in western countries (and a LOT safer than southern USA)

This is assuming you book far in advance, and there's an art to this, and of course prices will be higher in the ideal seasons with the best weather.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

How I envy you retired people! I'm still at the office at 9 pm (not focusing on work obviously) and you could be planning a trip to somewhere warm. My parents are in Cuba right now ... I'm very happy for them.

In all seriousness, southern US is not a very nice place to go. The US also has some ugly tax rules you must be aware of; if you exceed a certain # of days in the US (substantial presence test) you will have all kinds of tax problems because you will be a "US person"! No joke.

Skip the US. Go somewhere nicer... check out Cuba vacation prices, to start with


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

For long term vacation I would go to Southern Spain/Portugal. You may rent apartment/townhouse for 250 EUR/month... Beautiful, civilized countries and excellent weather


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## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

If you're gonna pay for flights in the US, hotels, taxis and other transportation to get around, then I'd consider the small RV option for sure. You'll have to do the math on costs, but for me having a vehicle at my disposal is well worth paying a bit more for. For showers, most big truck stops you can buy a shower and do laundry on the cheap, and some will include it for free if you buy a certain amount of fuel.

When you're done with the trip, you could sell the RV and get some money back. If you're handy, there are lots of options of converting a cargo van on the cheap. You could also pull a small pop trailer if you have a car capable of towing, but they're not as convenient as get up and go.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The choice of an RV limits you to expensive gas and US/Mexico. A snowbird has 7 months to travel and maintain Canadian Health Insurance. Otherwise expatforum.com is a good source of info.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

james4beach said:


> *In all seriousness, southern US is not a very nice place to go.* The US also has some ugly tax rules you must be aware of; if you exceed a certain # of days in the US (substantial presence test) you will have all kinds of tax problems because you will be a "US person"! No joke.


Lol... based on what ? That might be news to the hundreds of thousands of Canadians that go to Florida and Arizona every year. I myself will be spending half of February in southern Georgia and I can assure you it is a damn fine place to get away from Canadian weather.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Koogie said:


> Lol... based on what ? That might be news to the hundreds of thousands of Canadians that go to Florida and Arizona every year. I myself will be spending half of February in southern Georgia and I can assure you it is a damn fine place to get away from Canadian weather.


Based on the guy's ignorance.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

kcowan said:


> The choice of an RV limits you to expensive gas and US/Mexico. A snowbird has 7 months to travel and maintain Canadian Health Insurance. Otherwise expatforum.com is a good source of info.



The trick is to couple the rv with a sailboat, opens up the world...also, health insurance does not need to be an anchor to prevent maximizing retirement years. Nothing worse than croaking on the couch while watching Price is Right reruns lol.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Koogie said:


> Lol... based on what ? That might be news to the hundreds of thousands of Canadians that go to Florida and Arizona every year. I myself will be spending half of February in southern Georgia and I can assure you it is a damn fine place to get away from Canadian weather.


Southern US states have very high crime rates, so that would be my main hesitation personally.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Nelley said:


> Based on the guy's ignorance.


I live in the US and have coworkers from places like Georgia and Florida.

Nelley, how about you, what's the basis for your US "expertise"?


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I live in the US and have coworkers from places like Georgia and Florida.
> 
> Nelley, how about you, what's the basis for your US "expertise"?


Jeez Snowflake: Do you not understand there are probably hundreds of persons lurking on this forum who have wintered in the southern US like myself? Of those hundreds, maybe thousands IMO not one wintered in the high crime ghettos of the southern USA. That ain't "expertise" that is called common sense-of which you have none.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I actually live in the US, and go to business meetings in different states and cities.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

STech said:


> If you're gonna pay for flights in the US, hotels, taxis and other transportation to get around, then I'd consider the small RV option for sure. You'll have to do the math on costs, but for me having a vehicle at my disposal is well worth paying a bit more for. For showers, most big truck stops you can buy a shower and do laundry on the cheap, and some will include it for free if you buy a certain amount of fuel.
> 
> When you're done with the trip, you could sell the RV and get some money back. If you're handy, there are lots of options of converting a cargo van on the cheap. You could also pull a small pop trailer if you have a car capable of towing, but they're not as convenient as get up and go.


Good suggestions 
No need for even a cargo van, lots of people buy a used Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey or even a Caravan. Pull the seats out and either will fit a 4*8 sheet of plywood. This is enough room to make a 4*6 foot platform bed with room underneath for all your storage.- clothes and camping cooking gear. Leaves 2 feet at back for Porta toilet. Available at Canadian tire for about 50.00 that use special bags and or kitty litter. No odour - empty daily - use for nights or emergency. Have curtains to pull for night time. Some people add a sink with water hookup to a water storage bottle. Cooler for food or buy perishables daily.
As suggested showers in campgrounds or truck stops. Can camp in national forests, on the street, parking lots. Occasional stay in motels to really clean up.

Not for everyone for sure. Look on you tube for how to.

Sprinter van or cargo van is for hedonistic types if you want lots of room. :-D 

I know a pair of career, 50+, school teachers who travel all over North America in a converted Sienna. They have camped on the street in downtown Vancouver in it
When not travelling, the seats go back in and they use it for day to day car.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Southern US states have very high crime rates, so that would be my main hesitation personally.


As do Chicago, Detroit, NYC, etc.. So, that is a pretty slim and pathetic excuse to malign places like Miami Beach, Palm Beach, Scottsdale, etc..

Trust me. If the 5 year olds at Epcot are safe, you can man up and attempt it too.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Good god we are talking about a retired person traveling...not a group of feral hippies. It's not supposed to be punishment. Get a real rv with at least an ice maker ,washer & dryer, 10,000lb cargo capacity and go glamping...don't forget the Harley...you earned it. (dont go to rv parks anywhere they are dumps...think State Parks, UNESCO sites, ocean front kite board areas.)


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Ahh, feral hippies. Those were the days!


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

This is just a thought. When we bought our rentals, we bought a smaller work trailer to carry reno materials, equipment, etc. It cost about $3,300 tax included. The person that owns the business told us about one man buying one the same size as ours (12? 13? feet) with two windows in it. He used it to move his kids back and forth to university in southern Ontario, but also put a bed in it so he never needed a hotel room when travelling. These trailers can be pulled by an appropriate personal vehicle at very little extra cost. Build a bed platform, with storage below, add a few solar panels and a battery or two, you could be good to go. They have both the full back doors that open wide (into a screened gazebo maybe?), a side man door, and interior lights. Exterior is metal, interior is wood..

Could be an inexpensive way to discover if you care for the travelling/RV type retirement, without a $100,000 price tag. It could be parked in your driveway the rest of the year without storage fees or extra insurance. If you decide you don't like it, sell it as a work trailer, every smaller contractor uses them.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Ahh, a shag wagon. Those were the days!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Six months residence on a different cruise ship every year would suit me just fine.

For long motoring trips in the US, I would just drive my car and book motel rooms. They are dirt cheap in small towns.

These days with Welcome Centers and GPS units, you can find suitable accommodation pretty easily along the way.


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

sags said:


> Six months residence on a different cruise ship every year would suit me just fine.


Would that run at least $30k USD for a couple?


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My friend's parents rented a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom condo in a really nice gated community($2500 a month) in Florida for 3 months and they have been having friends come stay with them at a cost of $350 a week for the other bedroom as a way to cut their costs but they are all in same boat not sure how to approach the get away for the winter plans.I probably would rent a place for a couple months in various locations to discover what you enjoy the most.For me if I had a $100,000 RV my husband would still have to drop me at a nice hotel at night so that life is not for everyone.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

You need to try a $400,000 rv...trust me lol.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm with Eder. Wife and I were looking for an RV a few years back after early retiring. Started looking at small ones but we were planning on spending a few months a year in it. Ended up buying a 40' class A. These nice motorhomes have multiple TV's, surround sound, walk in showers, laundry, king size beds, etc etc. Plus great to drive and you can tow a vehicle to use. Just like being at home. Why work your butt off for 40 yrs and then do without if you don't have to ?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

If you decide to go with the USA, please remember that if you exceed the substantial presence test then you will have to start filing US tax returns. There can be huge penalties if you fail to do so, and it's going to be expensive when you find a tax expert to start consulting with.

You are a "US person" with tax obligations if you are physically present in the US at least
a) 31 days during the current year, and
b) 183 days during the 3-year period that includes the current year and the 2 years immediately before that, counting:
All the days you were present in the current year, and
1/3 of the days you were present in the first year before the current year, and
1/6 of the days you were present in the second year before the current year.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/substantial-presence-test

Don't rule out the Caribbean, South America, warm parts of Europe, the balkans


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My friend who is American ought a nice RV in 2014 and paid about $110,000 usd ,she said they can be found on auction sites etc and hers was in the 300k range if anyone is serious about the RV.I am in a wheelchair so fairly confident i will never do the RV thing


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> If you decide to go with the USA, please remember that if you exceed the substantial presence test then you will have to start filing US tax returns. There can be huge penalties if you fail to do so, and it's going to be expensive when you find a tax expert to start consulting with.
> 
> You are a "US person" with tax obligations if you are physically present in the US at least
> a) 31 days during the current year, and
> ...


Not if you are a Canadian taxpayer-in that case you are good for up to less than 6 months a year in the USA-see the bottom of the page-Conditions for Closer Connection.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

That is true that Closer Connection can be invoked, but you still have to file with the IRS every year. It's true that you won't owe any tax, but you must do this annual filing with the US. - http://www.snowbirds.org/tax-forms


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> That is true that Closer Connection can be invoked, but you still have to file with the IRS every year. It's true that you won't owe any tax, but you must do this annual filing with the US. - http://www.snowbirds.org/tax-forms


Correct.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

marina628 said:


> My friend who is American ought a nice RV in 2014 and paid about $110,000 usd ,she said they can be found on auction sites etc and hers was in the 300k range if anyone is serious about the RV.I am in a wheelchair so fairly confident i will never do the RV thing


A freind of mine is confined to a wheelchair...he drives a 1.2 million $ Prevost bus....doesn't seem to be a problem for him....rv's can easily accommodate wheelchair bound owners. A bit customization is all...not unusual.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

james4beach said:


> That is true that Closer Connection can be invoked, but you still have to file with the IRS every year. It's true that you won't owe any tax, but you must do this annual filing with the US. - http://www.snowbirds.org/tax-forms


I just file a closer connection each year...nothing more...takes 1 minute to fill in then mail...I love the US....Florida Keys snorkel/fishing,Utah mountain biking, Texas gulf area kite boarding, Vegas poker rooms, Palm Springs golf/biking, San Diego restaurants,Glacier Park area...all amazing & never been mugged or shot!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eder can you recommend locations for a guy who likes beaches and the ocean? I haven't been to Hawaii yet, so that's next on my list


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Eder can you recommend locations for a guy who likes beaches and the ocean?


 Cuba


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Agreed, Cuba is heaven ... Sunwing shows a two week package vacation to Varadero, for $1200. That works out to $86 a day!! (That's including flights)

It's 24 to 28 C there by the end of this week.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

If you complete the W8BEN before spending over 122 days in the US, they will allow up to 183 days without filing taxes as a US Person.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Eder can you recommend locations for a guy who likes beaches and the ocean? I haven't been to Hawaii yet, so that's next on my list


Hi...I did answer but I think reply went poof...in Hawaii our favorite place is the Pioneer Inn in Lahaina, Maui. Get 2nd floor street side with lanai. Unless you like the ****** herd then resort area is more suitable.
We like it as action all evening in front of us till about 9pm then they roll up the sidewalks...thats it till sun up. Bar is across the street, good cheaper restaurant in house...beach area right there and is good spot for beginner surfers (we took lessons there). You can walk to good snorkeling, but we rent car as world class snorkeling is about 30 minutes down island...no need to join tour boat etc. Also you need car to boot it to Hana, up the volcano etc etc.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Eder said:


> I just file a closer connection each year...nothing more...takes 1 minute to fill in then mail...I love the US....Florida Keys snorkel/fishing,Utah mountain biking, Texas gulf area kite boarding, Vegas poker rooms, Palm Springs golf/biking, San Diego restaurants,Glacier Park area...all amazing & never been mugged or shot!


Statistically, if you avoid the ghetto areas the USA overall has a very low crime rate.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Eder said:


> Hi...I did answer but I think reply went poof...in Hawaii our favorite place is the Pioneer Inn in Lahaina, Maui. Get 2nd floor street side with lanai. Unless you like the ****** herd then resort area is more suitable.
> We like it as action all evening in front of us till about 9pm then they roll up the sidewalks...thats it till sun up. Bar is across the street, good cheaper restaurant in house...beach area right there and is good spot for beginner surfers (we took lessons there). You can walk to good snorkeling, but we rent car as world class snorkeling is about 30 minutes down island...no need to join tour boat etc. Also you need car to boot it to Hana, up the volcano etc etc.


Yeah Lahaina is nice-went whale watching there.


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## Jaberwock (Aug 22, 2012)

I have spent the last four winters in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic. You can get a nice apartment for about $1500 US/month. Less if you stay for longer. Warm weather, golf, beach and a good social life with lots of other Canadians and Americans staying in the area.

The two winters before that I spent in Santiago, Chile. More of a city life, and less English spoken but a lovely place to go for an extended stay, and apartments are about $1,000USD/month. A modern city with a very low crime rate, nice parks and restaurants, zero rainfall in our winter (their summer) and very easy to get around by subway or bus.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

*Snowbirds - Great accommodation and travel destination ideas.*

I love this thread. It has me dreaming. 
There are lots of *good ideas* here for different travel lifestyles.



Eder said:


> We've taken this *Class A* everywhere from Mexico to PEI to Florida Keys etc for years. No bed bugs,schedule,bad food or limits to your stay. Noisy neighbor? Just start engine & leave.





Eder said:


> I love the US....Florida Keys snorkel/fishing,Utah mountain biking, Texas gulf area kite boarding, Vegas poker rooms, Palm Springs golf/biking, San Diego restaurants,Glacier Park area...all amazing.





naysmitj said:


> Look for a small used 22 to 24 foot *Class C*. Fair mileage, comfortable travel and lots of overnight options from free to expensive.





Spudd said:


> If you're going for a couple of months you could look into *extended stay hotels*. These normally have a lower per-night rate if you book longer periods, and they have kitchenettes in the rooms so you don't have to eat out all the time.
> Sites like *VRBO*, there are often longer stays available at a discount.





james4beach said:


> *Canary Islands*
> For example, Costa Teguise on Lanzarote. ....$57 per day.
> *European vacation packages*
> Europeans have access to excellent packages.
> ...





gibor365 said:


> For long term vacation I would go to *Southern Spain/Portugal*. You may rent apartment/townhouse for 250 EUR/month... Beautiful, civilized countries and excellent weather





STech said:


> If you're handy, there are lots of options of converting a *cargo van* on the cheap. You could also pull a small pop trailer if you have a car capable of towing, but they're not as convenient as get up and go.





twa2w said:


> Lots of people buy a used *Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey* or even a Caravan *(Class B?)*. Pull the seats out and either will fit a 4*8 sheet of plywood. This is enough room to make a 4*6 foot platform bed with room underneath for all your storage.- clothes and camping cooking gear.





sags said:


> Six months residence on a different *cruise ship* every year would suit me just fine.
> For *long motoring trips* in the US, I would just drive my car and *book motel rooms*.





Jaberwock said:


> Punta Cana, *Dominican Republic*. You can get a nice apartment for about $1500 US/month. Warm weather, golf, beach and a good social life with lots of other Canadians and Americans staying in the area. The two winters before that I spent in Santiago, Chile. More of a city life, and less English spoken but a lovely place to go for an extended stay, and apartments are about $1,000USD/month.


For travel destinations, I'd like to try everything above. 

For road trips in the US, I see Class A, B, C RVs are all mentioned above.

I'll add another suggestion. When I retire, I would like to try a truck pulling a travel/RV trailer, which I discussed in this thread.
Retirement Travel - Truck and RV Trailer


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## ykphil (Dec 13, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Ahh, feral hippies. Those were the days!


I guess I must be a feral hippy LOL...Almost 60, wife is early 40s, this is how we've been traveling for the past six months throughout the US Southwest and now Mexico, with the goal of reaching Patagonia in December 2018. 







We camp out on secluded beaches, deserts, sierras, small pueblos, and in the most incredible places only accessible via 4x4. Once every couple of weeks, we splurge in a hotel, and if we like a particular location, we look for a cheap place for a few weeks on AirB&B, but I must say that after a few days in a brick and mortar house, I miss climbing up in my rooftop penthouse. While sometimes we wouldn't mind all the bells and whistles of an RV, our set-up is right for the kind of off-the-beaten path travel we do: this is the lifestyle we enjoy, and it has nothing to do with cost. It keeps us busy, challenged, and mentally and physically healthy , and I hope we can continue well into my 60s. In fact, we regularly meet people in their late 60s and 70s who are still overlanding like we do.


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## naysmitj (Sep 16, 2014)

Wow, nice trip. When I type Toronto to Patagonia into google maps and ask for directions, it tells me I can't get there from here by car.

Cheers


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

ykphil said:


> I guess I must be a feral hippy LOL...Almost 60, wife is early 40s, this is how we've been traveling for the past six months throughout the US Southwest and now Mexico, with the goal of reaching Patagonia in December 2018.
> View attachment 13841
> 
> We camp out on secluded beaches, deserts, sierras, small pueblos, and in the most incredible places only accessible via 4x4. Once every couple of weeks, we splurge in a hotel, and if we like a particular location, we look for a cheap place for a few weeks on AirB&B, but I must say that after a few days in a brick and mortar house, I miss climbing up in my rooftop penthouse. While sometimes we wouldn't mind all the bells and whistles of an RV, our set-up is right for the kind of off-the-beaten path travel we do: this is the lifestyle we enjoy, and it has nothing to do with cost. It keeps us busy, challenged, and mentally and physically healthy , and I hope we can continue well into my 60s. In fact, we regularly meet people in their late 60s and 70s who are still overlanding like we do.


Awesome. Are you chronicling this anywhere ?
If you don't already use it, this website would be of particular interest to you. http://www.drivetheamericas.com/

I know some people who drove around the world in a minibus a few years ago. They are planning on doing the PanAm in reverse next year. I am hoping to go with them on a section of it.


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## ykphil (Dec 13, 2009)

naysmitj said:


> Wow, nice trip. When I type Toronto to Patagonia into google maps and ask for directions, it tells me I can't get there from here by car.
> 
> Cheers


Indeed there is a 100-160 km gap in the Pan-American Highway between Panama's Darién Province in Central America and the northern portion of Colombia's Chocó Department in South America, called the Tapón del Darién that can't be crossed overland. It is mostly undeveloped swampland and forest, very costly to build a road, and some insurgent or guerillas apparently roaming the jungle along the way. Not safe to say the least...A few reported cases of successful crossings, but most were unsuccessful, and it is now impossible for anyone to cross that area by land. It begins in Yaviza, Panama and ends in Turbo, Colombia. The usual way to cross it now is to ship the vehicle on a cargo ship, either from Colon in Panama, to Cartagena in Columbia, in a container or RORO, for about $1000 USD. For us, there is an added problem because we are driving a right-hand drive vehicle which are not allowed in Costa Rica, which is right in our way...Our only option is to ship our vehicle via cargo ship from Manzanillo or Veracruz in Mexico, to somewhere in South America. We might also put the vehicle on a flat bed and have it shipped from the Costa Rica border to Panama. Right now, we are delaying Central America for a year to explore Mexico, as we found that this country is so vast and so culturally and geographically diverse that it would be a shame to rush through this incredible country.


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## ykphil (Dec 13, 2009)

Koogie said:


> Awesome. Are you chronicling this anywhere ?
> If you don't already use it, this website would be of particular interest to you. http://www.drivetheamericas.com/
> 
> I know some people who drove around the world in a minibus a few years ago. They are planning on doing the PanAm in reverse next year. I am hoping to go with them on a section of it.


Go meet your friends if you can, overlanding it is a fantastic way to travel, at times very difficult and challenging from the moment you get up to when you climb up to the rooftop tent in the evening (...and at my age, climb down a few times in the middle of the night to take care of business...), but so rewarding. And on road trips like these, the saying "the journey is more important than the destination" takes all its meaning in more ways than one. I've been researching this trip for a few years and found a lot of useful and practical info on the website you mention. We have pretty much "planned" everything that can be planned, thanks to that website and the experience of friends who are preceding us, but as much as we can plan, we are ready for anything on this kind of journey. 

All the best to you and your friends on the road!


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Great idea....savor the trip. Mexico is like 4 or 5 different countries all with special unique things to see & do. I met 2 guys from France at the ****** bar in Mulege that were doing the trip on unicycles...


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