# Bond ETFs Hmmm ...



## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

That time of year again, RRSP, TFSA, investments ... the fun never stops. :encouragement:

So for the first time I'm looking at Bond ETFs which appear a little confusng. 
From what I've read, the YTM is what look at for expected returns from a bond ETF (is that the same as "average YTM"?) minus the MER right?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

As someone who deals heavily with fixed income I can tell you that bond ETFs are generally not a "good deal". The expenses are high... the MERs are very high, relative to the total yield of the bonds.

For instance if a bond is yielding 1.5% (150 basis points) and you're paying an MER of 35 basis points, you are losing 35/150 or nearly a QUARTER of the yield in the form of fees. This is horrible.

You are generally better off in GICs, with the exception that a bond fund gives you good liquidity should you need to take money out.

Yes you should look at YTM, the yield to maturity is the expected forward return if market prices were to stay constant. Subtract the MER, correct.

You'll see that once you do that, you're left with very little yield. In just about every case I've seen, you will get more yield in a GIC.

Remember that GICs are insured (CDIC or credit union guarantee corps) whereas bonds do not have a guaranteed return. You can lose money in a bond fund. You can't lose money in a GIC, especially not with CDIC.

Given that you can't possibly lose money in a GIC, and the yields are higher than a bond fund's YTM-MER, I strongly recommend the GIC route. Something like a 5 year ladder, which... once built up... offers reasonably good liquidity since GICs will be maturing every year or so.

I've loaded up my ladder such that GICs mature every 6 months. I get better returns than a bond ETF with no risk of losing money.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

In a rising interest rate scenario, bond ETF and funds will lose capital big time. If you think interest rates will go down, or stay the same, bond funds and ETFs are a good choice.

If you feel you must buy a bond fund, pick one with short duration bonds, and very low MERs. Myself, I hold individual bonds that I bought a long time ago, and a GIC ladder.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Also I can't get past the feeling that these fund companies are ripping us off on fees, with the bond funds.

Even as a little retail guy, I can buy government bonds at the discount brokerage and incur fees as low as 5 or 6 basis points worth of yield. That's if I buy and hold to maturity, which is what I do. Even if I did a buy and sell, that's still only about 12 basis points of fees.

Yet the bond ETFs charge double to triple those fees, like 30 basis points!

Which is why I think they're ripping off investors. Frankly I think it's because we've had such a long bond bull market (30 years) which always makes investors complacent and less critical of fees. Consider how many billions$ are parked in these bond funds and imagine how much money they're making of us.

MERs on bond ETFs are high, in my opinion


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

BMO InvestorLine Best GIC rates as of today
http://www.bmoinvestorline.com/home/rates-and-fees/il/rates/gic

1 yr 1.55%
2 yr 1.76%
3 yr 2.05%
4 yr 2.35%
5 yr 2.55%

*Average rate: 2.052%*


Vanguard Canadian Aggregate Bond Index ETF (VAB)

YTM: 2.4%
MER: 0.22%

*Effective YTM: 2.18%*


VAB yields more than a GIC ladder, despite its "horrible" MER.

How can that be?

VAB allocates a portion of its bond portfolio to long term bonds and corporate bonds. They boost ETF yield and offset the MER. You get all other ETF features for free: instant liquidity, broad diversification, one stop shopping, etc.

Contrary to what many think, GICs have MERs too. They are buried in the yield and never disclosed. Given illiquid nature of GICs, they should be yielding more than they do. The issuer pockets the illiquidity premium. That's their MER.

The statement that you can't lose money in a GIC ladder is true in nominal terms. It's definitely not true in real terms. If inflation takes off, you will suffer losses in real dollar terms when your GICs mature.

Can you lose money in a bond ETF? Yes you can, if you sell it while its down. Make sure that your holding period is much longer than ETF duration. VAB has average duration of 7.1 years. Plan accordingly.

Bond ETFs can do something that GICs ladders can't. They give you a degree of protection against deflation (which happens to be a real threat at the moment).


The bottom line:

The choice between a bond ETF and a GIC ladder is not black & white. Do your home work.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Cliff Asness:

My Top 10 Investment Peeves

Item #10 is a must read for any bond/GIC shopper. It debunks some of the points made upthread.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yeah these things are tricky to compare.

VAB has an average portfolio maturity of 10 years. The money (in bonds) is loaned out for 10 year periods.
The GIC ladder has an average maturity of just 3 years.

Duration is a different thing, it's a measure of response to interest rates. Term/maturity is the length of the lending period.

The rule is, the longer you lend out money, the more yield you should get. So here with the VAB comparison you're getting just 0.13% more yield by lending out 7 years longer. Personally think the GIC is a better deal, even considering illiquidity of the GICs.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Anyone thinks that bond yields have only one way to go? Up, Up and Up? 

Watch this recent interview with Gundlach. He describes a contrarian scenario where bond yields drop to the new historical lows. Of course, a bond ETF would be a better choice in such a scenario.

Disclaimer: I don't own any bond ETFs myself, but maybe I should!


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

a GIC ladder can be a good idea but has drawbacks

a) it requires a lot more work than buying 1 or 2 bond funds (i have money in GIC's and BMO Short and Mid Bonds funds) ... in order to get good rates you must do serious research and fill out applications (and risk getting your data stolen as i did at people's trust)
b) you have to maintain and build the ladder at workable intervals

a bond fund will provide good diversification so you really don't need to worry about re-payment risk (the BMO Mid fund has 124 holdings)

it's true that a fund will be sensitive to interest rates and principal loss so the answer is money management, place only as much money in the fund as can afford to leave in it to smooth out interest rates hits ... don't need to withdraw from the fund on a regular basis

though, if you do need it the fund does have liquidity which is not a small drawback for GIC's which are locked and you will take a much worse hit if you are able to withdraw money early in a GIC

finally, if you have a decent equity portfolio, the conditions under which a bond fund should see capital loss (rising rates) is usually indicative of a strong equity market so you should get offsetting gains in your equity portfolio

both GIC's and bond funds are useful if you use good money management


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Thanks all, good info to take in.

Looking back at the rates for CBO ETF http://ca.ishares.com/content/stream.jsp?url=/content/en_ca/repository/resource/fact_sheet/FFS_CBO_CA46433Q1028_EN_CA.PDF I see higher returns for 2012 - 3.5, 2011 - 4.6, 2010- 3.8. Why are these annual return values (I gather MER needs to be subtracted?) so much higher than the returns now?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I don't think you buy bond ETFs to make money, you buy them as a strategy to reduce volatility (assuming you're worried about volatility). People who had bond ETFs in their portfolios in 2008 saw their portfolios increase in value, a lot more than people who had GICs did, while people who were 100% in stocks mostly saw losses. 

Take a look through Canadian Couch Potato's really good blog posts on bond ETFs and their place in your portfolio; he has articles comparing bonds vs. bond ETFs and lots of articles about why you should have bond ETFs in your portfolio. It's worth reading these to understand the arguments; he discusses the pros and cons.

See http://canadiancouchpotato.com/category/bonds/ for everything he's posted on bonds and bond ETFs (click on the link to "previous entries" to read them all). But the key ones are:

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/09/05/why-every-portfolio-needs-bonds/

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/03/29/bonds-v-bond-funds/

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2011/05/23/are-bond-index-funds-stupid/

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2012/07/03/how-will-rising-rates-affect-bonds/

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/09/23/how-not-to-prepare-for-a-bear-market-in-bonds/


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Looking back at the rates for CBO ETF http://ca.ishares.com/content/stream.jsp?url=/content/en_ca/repository/resource/fact_sheet/FFS_CBO_CA46433Q1028_EN_CA.PDF I see higher returns for 2012 - 3.5, 2011 - 4.6, 2010- 3.8. Why are these annual return values (I gather MER needs to be subtracted?) so much higher than the returns now?


Nevermind, I believe I found the answer as to why ... the newer bonds replacing the matured bonds are now lower yielding. 



brad said:


> I don't think you buy bond ETFs to make money, you buy them as a strategy to reduce volatility (assuming you're worried about volatility).


I think everyone "wants" to make money on bonds , the little that you do get but yes, volatility protection (preserving capital) is likely the key for most.

The more I look at current GIC or bond rates, the more I feel like just putting it into a HISA and wait for something better to come along.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Once a GIC ladder has been established for 5 years, you are only buying at 5 year rates so the yield is a little better than the example given where the average duration is 3 years.

I dumped my bond ETFs in favour of GIC ladders in our registered accounts and it works for me.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

GoldStone said:


> Anyone thinks that bond yields have only one way to go? Up, Up and Up?
> 
> Watch this recent interview with Gundlach. He describes a contrarian scenario where bond yields drop to the new historical lows. Of course, a bond ETF would be a better choice in such a scenario.
> 
> Disclaimer: I don't own any bond ETFs myself, but maybe I should!


Interesting video, but I think people are generally aware that another economic disaster would cause bond prices to go up. It might be that they see the potential short-term gains in that event as too low to cover the costs of holding bonds. Other than that he seems to be saying that demand for bonds is really high right now except for people who don't like the current yields (and wouldn't buy unless yields were higher). I don't really see that pointing to increased demand in the future. If yields went down you wouldn't need to own a bond fund since individual bonds would increase in value and you could sell those.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Nevermind, I believe I found the answer as to why ... the newer bonds replacing the matured bonds are now lower yielding.


The total return each year is the combination of the yield and the change in price. With declining interest rates bond prices have gone up in recent years (until last year). Most total returns are reported after the MER. Even with yields around 2.55% now, that doesn't mean that the total return will be 2 - 2.5% over the next year. It could be 5% if yields fall, or -5% if they rise. Over the duration of the fund the return you can expect will be close to the current yield.



Ihatetaxes said:


> Once a GIC ladder has been established for 5 years, you are only buying at 5 year rates so the yield is a little better than the example given where the average duration is 3 years.


You would also benefit from higher rates in the past since a ladder takes longer to adjust. If rates are rising then the ladder will pay less for 5 years. A bond fund always pays the current yield on the full amount right now.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It's very difficult to forecast interest rates. We're not talking the Bank of Canada rate, we're talking about bond market rates. It moves independently of the BoC and this market determines both bond ETF prices and GIC yields.

A few years ago, everyone was saying ... these GIC rates are too low, I'll put it in a HISA and wait for rates to rise. Those people are now finding that yields are even lower than they were in 2009. They would have been much better off with those GIC rates that they used to think were unacceptably low.

My point is, don't try to "trade" the bond market. Trading the bond market can mean trying to speculate on bond ETF movements, but it also means guessing that GIC rates will go up and therefore waiting in cash until that time. Both actions are types of speculation, in a market that is very difficult to predict.

Either a standard bond ETF, or a GIC ladder (in which you're eventually only buying 5 year GICs) are both valid strategies. Personally I think that CDIC-insured GICs offer the better deal, after you factor in risk and maturity length.

If you're concerned that rates may rise, then GICs or a short maturity fund is preferable, but just waiting in a HISA is not the best strategy. My dad insisted on a bond fund so I got him into XSB, for example.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

brad, great post, couch potato is an excellent resource
i confess i am a huge fan of the BMO ETF funds, they seem to be ahead of the curve with some interesting products though their new ZDB won't work for me

james, i disagree completely about HISA's in todays environment of rate uncertainty
you can get 1.9% of CDIC insured money that is 100% available in a HISA

a 3-year locked GIC ladder gives you about 2.10% or something averaged out ... this is a poor tradeoff for 20 basis points 

on the other hand if you spend several years working hard and building a GIC ladder over 5 to 6 years then yes, it can work 

though your money will always be locked 

and as has been pointed out a 2008 crash would hit a GIC ladder hard since the money would be locked and would be both unavailable for use as well as losing on rising rates


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> If you're concerned that rates may rise, then GICs or a short maturity fund is preferable, but just waiting in a HISA is not the best strategy.


If I went the GIC route with Scotiabank (don't want to spread out to multiple accounts) which would be my best option? All I see is a 30 month 2.0% which is only 0.75% better than the HISA account. Also, not sure I can even get that as they say it's not available online.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

fatcat said:


> james, i disagree completely about HISA's in todays environment of rate uncertainty
> you can get 1.9% of CDIC insured money that is 100% available in a HISA
> 
> a 3-year locked GIC ladder gives you about 2.10% or something averaged out ... this is a poor tradeoff for 20 basis points
> ...


I'm talking about a filled up ladder, but one has to start filling that at some point so it's inevitably going to be not as great while it gets up and running.

The HISA is just not the same kind of exposure. This is a rate that can change at any moment... for instance, it can drop.

The GIC means you're guaranteed to earn 2.1% over 3 years (or whatever the average)
HISA means, you're earning 1.9% today but no guarantee over 3 years. It could be lower.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cainvest said:


> If I went the GIC route with Scotiabank (don't want to spread out to multiple accounts) which would be my best option? All I see is a 30 month 2.0% which is only 0.75% better than the HISA account. Also, not sure I can even get that as they say it's not available online.


If you're sticking with scotia, are you also using itrade? Some better rate GICs are available through itrade and if you're talking about the HISA at 1.25% then it sounds like this is itrade.

The 30 months @ 2.0% is a good deal (as far as 2.5 year GICs go)
Through itrade you can get at least 2.1% for 4 year, and at least 2.4% for a 5 year. Phone for rates.

Personally I have a mix of HISA, GICs, and individual bonds (not a bond ETF). These are all in a big ladder and the HISA is still a significant part of it, which I call the "0 year GIC"


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> If you're sticking with scotia, are you also using itrade? Some better rate GICs are available through itrade and if you're talking about the HISA at 1.25% then it sounds like this is itrade.
> 
> The 30 months @ 2.0% is a good deal (as far as 2.5 year GICs go)
> Through itrade you can get at least 2.1% for 4 year, and at least 2.4% for a 5 year. Phone for rates.
> ...


Yup, using iTrade and have been parking some cash in DYN1300. 
Given the rates above, the 30 month @ 2% might be an option but I'm not going to lose sleep over 0.75%.  
I'll give them a call though, just to see what options are available.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Just for an update, and these rates can change daily I'm told, here are a couple of the top % GIC offerings via iTrade (CDIC insured).

3 year - 2.15 and 2.05
5 year - 2.7 and 2.6

The 30 month GIC with scotiabank @ 2.0% is not available.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Here's the flip side (a bit extreme) just to illustrate. Say you park money into the 5 year GIC at 2.7%
That's a guaranteed total return, no matter what, of 14.2%

Say you keep it in the HISA instead. It's 1.25% now, but then maybe BoC cuts the rate (likely at this point) and it yields 1.0% or even 0.75% in coming years.

The HISA could give you a total return of just 5%. Versus the 14% in the GICs. (Just to illustrate one scenario)


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I'm talking about a filled up ladder, but one has to start filling that at some point so it's inevitably going to be not as great while it gets up and running.
> 
> The HISA is just not the same kind of exposure. This is a rate that can change at any moment... for instance, it can drop.
> 
> ...


agreed on the ladder, it takes work to get going but once up can be rolled over without too much trouble (except for rate hunting and form filling)

yes, it's true that a hisa can change on a dime except the whole point of our discussion is that we are in an environment where we fear rising rates so a hisa ... at the present time ... is a worthwhile option ... though i get your point, it isn't a long term viable strategy for your fixed income allocation


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Here's the flip side (a bit extreme) just to illustrate. Say you park money into the 5 year GIC at 2.7%
> That's a guaranteed total return, no matter what, of 14.2%
> 
> Say you keep it in the HISA instead. It's 1.25% now, but then maybe BoC cuts the rate (likely at this point) and it yields 1.0% or even 0.75% in coming years.
> ...


Lots of "what if" games one can play ... one thing I do like is liquidity, even at a small penalty.
Now if the HISA heads south I can decide to move into a GIC at that time, likely get a 2.3-2.5 range even after a drop, not a big deal.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Lots of "what if" games one can play ... one thing I do like is liquidity, even at a small penalty.
> Now if the HISA heads south I can decide to move into a GIC at that time, likely get a 2.3-2.5 range even after a drop, not a big deal.


I agree it's a lot of what if's.

One thing I think needs serious consideration under what circumstances is liquidity important when you're speaking of a fixed income portion of an investment portfolio. That may be different for each person but might answer some of the question as to what your choice is.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

RBull said:


> I agree it's a lot of what if's.
> 
> One thing I think needs serious consideration under what circumstances is liquidity important when you're speaking of a fixed income portion of an investment portfolio. That may be different for each person but might answer some of the question as to what your choice is.


Just the ability to shift investments to get a much better return ... of course that may not happen if things stay the same as now.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

RBull said:


> I agree it's a lot of what if's.
> 
> One thing I think needs serious consideration under what circumstances is liquidity important when you're speaking of a fixed income portion of an investment portfolio. That may be different for each person but might answer some of the question as to what your choice is.


Liquidity goes the other way too. If you decide to take money out of equities you can't just add it to a GIC ladder without changing the yield you're getting.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Just the ability to shift investments to get a much better return ... of course that may not happen if things stay the same as now.


Bond funds/ETFs do this automatically. If yields go up, they reinvest coupons and matured bonds at a higher rate. You don't have to do anything special (except ignore temporary capital losses that will eventually take care of themselves).


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## christinad (Apr 30, 2013)

Here is an article from the Globe and Mail on bonds in a rising interest rate environment:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-you-own-bonds-or-bond-funds/article12883772/

I'm not sure what people think of the corporate bond target maturity etfs the writer is recommending.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I just read that article an hour before you posted it. 

I think my end game will be to spread my investment and include bonds. I'll go with a 3yr GIC, 5yr GIC, a short term bond ETF and HISA which will likely be weighted in that order, high to low. Maybe on next years rebalance I'll look at doing a GIC ladder.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yup just spread it around. Add more into the HISA for liquidity management... personally I keep plenty in an interest bearing savings account.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

richard said:


> Liquidity goes the other way too. If you decide to take money out of equities you can't just add it to a GIC ladder without changing the yield you're getting.


Yes, of course. Where I was going was if you think about your goals, time horizon etc and determine your allocation to fixed income and apply it with your investment choice- liquidity may or may not be an important factor.

I'm not following what point you're making about changing the yield or liquidity with equities. Most certainly adding or removing GICS will change the average yield just as adding or selling a given stock would change the average cost basis. If you want to increase your exposure to fixed income from equities just buy another GIC or increase the amount of the next one coming due. Or buy a bond fund or ETF, or deposit to HISA. Simple. 

Cainvest, Goldstone beat me to it with a response to your "much better return".


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

CBO - corporate bonds that are maturing or will be called within 1-5 years, yeilding about 4.4%. Interest rate risk is greatly reduced by the short duration. And you can sell if the equity market drops suddenly in order to buy cheap, which is the whole point of holding bonds in my opinion.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

cainvest said:


> I think my end game will be to spread my investment and include bonds. I'll go with a 3yr GIC, 5yr GIC, a short term bond ETF and HISA which will likely be weighted in that order, high to low. Maybe on next years rebalance I'll look at doing a GIC ladder.


diversification is good, use several vehicles ... as always, money _management_ is the key to investing


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

CPA Candidate said:


> CBO - corporate bonds that are maturing or will be called within 1-5 years, yeilding about 4.4%. Interest rate risk is greatly reduced by the short duration. And you can sell if the equity market drops suddenly in order to buy cheap, which is the whole point of holding bonds in my opinion.


Dear CPA Candidate, I think you may have to study a bit more before writing that CPA exam.

CBO's yield to maturity is only 1.97%. The 4.4% you mention is the distribution yield which is a consequence of coupon payments; those are matched by capital losses. Yield to maturity is the figure you want.

CBO yields 1.97% minus 0.28% MER for a resulting yield of 1.69%


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Dear CPA Candidate, I think you may have to study a bit more before writing that CPA exam.
> 
> CBO's yield to maturity is only 1.97%. The 4.4% you mention is the distribution yield which is a consequence of coupon payments; those are matched by capital losses. Yield to maturity is the figure you want.
> 
> CBO yields 1.97% minus 0.28% MER for a resulting yield of 1.69%


I understand the difference and I was quoting the distribution yield. The important part is that you can sell the bonds in a heartbeat which beats the hell of a illiquid GIC when the market drops 10, 20 or 30%.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Dear CPA Candidate, I think you may have to study a bit more before writing that CPA exam.
> 
> CBO's yield to maturity is only 1.97%. The 4.4% you mention is the distribution yield which is a consequence of coupon payments; those are matched by capital losses. Yield to maturity is the figure you want.
> 
> CBO yields 1.97% minus 0.28% MER for a resulting yield of 1.69%


Actually this brings back another question I had on the previous annual performance of 3.5% for 2012, 4.6% of 2011, from the PDF I linked earlier. Are these the actual yearly returns from CBO? 

Also, isn't the CBO yield 2.21% - 0.28% MER giving you an estimated 2014 return of 1.93%.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

With a yield of 2%, why not use a savings account?


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

andrewf said:


> With a yield of 2%, why not use a savings account?


Where can you get 2% in a saving account?


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Actually this brings back another question I had on the previous annual performance of 3.5% for 2012, 4.6% of 2011, from the PDF I linked earlier. Are these the actual yearly returns from CBO?


Yes. 

The yield to maturity applies if you hold to maturity as the value of the bond returns to par over time. In this case with a bond fund, that would likely mean holding the portfolio of bonds indefinitely. Beacuse most of CBOs bonds are trading at a premium to par, that means that their value will continually decrease to par as they mature. As James explains, the capital loses negate some of the coupon payments. But, over any given holding period, your return could differ. I'm much more concerned with the short term return while I wait to deploy the cash towards an opportunity that pops up.

The current one year return to date is 2.42%. The price on Feb 20, 2013 was 20.16 and one year later it was 19.78, distributions were 0.87.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

People's trust offers 1.8%. There are a few other options out there as well. But are you really being compensated for credit risk, interest rate risk, transaction costs/spreads, and tax inefficiency at 1.97% YTM?


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## christinad (Apr 30, 2013)

People's Trust's esavings is 1.8% Oops you beat me!


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

CPA Candidate said:


> Where can you get 2% in a saving account?


http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Well the short term value is going to be very hard to guess. People use YTM because none of us know whether the bond market is going up or down.

On the ishares page for CBO I still see that YTM is 1.97%. Subtract the MER and it only yields 1.69%.. I think that's the figure you have to look at.

So option 1: yields 1.69% after fees, exposed to corporate paper, 3 year average term, risk of capital loss.
Option 2: totally liquid 1.8% with deposit insurance guarantee, no risk of capital loss.

Seems pretty obvious to me


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> On the ishares page for CBO I still see that YTM is 1.97%. Subtract the MER and it only yields 1.69%.. I think that's the figure you have to look at.


So you use the "Weighted Average Yield to Maturity" (1.97%) and not the "Average Yield to Maturity" (2.21%)?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

cainvest said:


> So you use the "Weighted Average Yield to Maturity" (1.97%) and not the "Average Yield to Maturity" (2.21%)?


Anyone know which of the above is the correct value to use?


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Hope that this wasn't mentioned upthread but is VSB a reasonable choice at this point in time?


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