# Heinz-Kraft merger..will that mean more jobs lost here?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Here we go again....Kellogg's is gone, Heinz stopped operations in Leamington
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...e-ontario-plant-cut-800-jobs/article15442338/


> A merger between H.J. Heinz Co. and Kraft Foods is expected to generate about $1.5 billion in cost savings, but the companies say it's too early to say whether they will shutter any of their Canadian operations.





> 3G Capital, which co-owns Heinz along with *Berkshire Hathaway Inc*, is known for paring down the assets of acquired companies in order to boost profits.





> 3G Capital also owns 51 per cent of Restaurant Brands International Inc, a company formed last year when 3G's Burger King business bought Canadian coffee chain Tim Hortons Inc.
> That merger led to about 350 Tim Hortons employees losing their jobs.


I guess the big American tycoons will trim down "Heinz 57" to "Heinz 5 or 7"....here in Canada.


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## PuckiTwo (Oct 26, 2011)

I am surprised how little interest Carverman's question received. 

This merger seen in context with the other acquistions of Burger King/Tim Hortons + stakes in KO and Inbev as beverage providers could be shaking up the industry. Nestle usually a company not prone to deep swings was down today -1.14%. PG -1.08%, MacD -1.23%, Dunkin Donuts -0.87.
From farmland to food/beverage producing companies Berkshire Hathaway can easily cook up nice tasty soups and distribute them "internationally" through its "Restaurant Brands International" (new name for Burger King+Tim Hortons)...... That's what you would call "using synergies".
Will it blow MacD out of the market? And others? in the Consumer Essential group?
One question is what is meant by "Brands"? Brands as plural. Can we expect more take-overs? 
And what means "Internationally". Buffett has lately been quoted several times that "he has an eye on Europe - and on the hard-working, successfull Mittelstand companies in Germany(something like medium-sized, but often international leaders) 

Back to Carverman's question: Carverman, to me the question is not: are we losing more jobs? The question should be: Why are we losing the jobs?
There is certainly a trend by Americans to "bring jobs home". But... what are we doing against it? Has this problem been recognized or are we trying to stuff holes without looking at the real problem?
Two years ago we visited friends in mid-Canada. American CEO living in US, company in Canada. His mandate was to convince the company to bring the headquarters to the US. That person told us the reasons - can produce cheaper in US, less regulation, less problems with unions


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

PuckiTwo said:


> The question should be: Why are we losing the jobs?
> There is certainly a trend by Americans to "bring jobs home". But... what are we doing against it? Has this problem been recognized or are we trying to stuff holes without looking at the real problem?
> 
> Two years ago we visited friends in mid-Canada. American CEO living in US, company in Canada. His mandate was to convince the company to bring the headquarters to the US. That person told us the reasons - *can produce cheaper in US, less regulation, less problems with unions*


In the US, there are some states which are "right to work" states, where unions are shunned. Using Gibson Guitars as an example; who used to be located in Kalamazoo Michigan, where the Unions are quite strong, decided to dump the old factory, shed the unions in the mid 80s. They relocated to Nashville and Memphis Tennessee , where there are no unions and no strikes. That way Gibson busted up the strong UAW they
were starting to have problems with with demands and strikes. 
(Right to work states)
http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

Tennessee offered them generous grants(an offer they couldn't refuse and tax incentives), to relocate their factories there as well and build newer factories and hire their labour force, to increase production at lower labour costs.

One thing that I suspect will happen (at least for the time being until the final decisions are made on
the Canadian production operations) is that any duplicate/redundant management will be eliminated this year at Heinz-Kraft, (and there is some other company in that conglomerate as well), that will be shedding excess management and perhaps production as well. We saw that last year with the BK-TH acquisition. I think
350 management staff at TH were out of a job.

With free trade across our borders in place, Kraft Dinner and Heinz ketchup can be made and trucked over here to Heinz-Kraft distribution centres for distribution here locally. Heinz, I believe had announced last
year that it had shut down it's Leamington "tomato products" plant and I'm surprised that there wasn't
a bottle of ketchup at that time with a message on it: "*This is the last bottle of Heinz ketchup made in Canada'*
or something similar to Kelloggs..that shut down it's entire plant last December with that kind of message
inside a package liner.

This seems to be the trend these days. It does not look good for Ontario's factory employment future nor the rest of Canada for that fact, when US control is slowly taking over all production and decision making. While those products that we are familiar with on store shelves will still be there, regardless of where they are produced...Ontario will continue to lose jobs.
So far the auto production is still going, here in Oshawa, but being an older factory, there are already
rumours that GM is rethinking maintaining production lines there in 2020. That timing may be also
coincident with more retirement from their work force at the time. If they can retire off a lot of their
workers at that time. there is less impact on the unemployment line. 

Obviously, the current Liberal provincial gov't doesn't seem to see the "forest for the trees' of the trend
of US based companies slowing pulling up roots and moving back to the US to maintain or increase profit
margins. 

Now my personal question: Will I see a packet of Heinz ketchup included with the powdered cheese in my KD soon? :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> ...
> 
> Now my personal question: Will I see a packet of Heinz ketchup included with the powdered cheese in my KD soon? :biggrin:


 ... I'm guessing no, because either 1. the new owners can make an extra loonie (give it time to par down to US$.50 or less) out of that packet of ketchup, 2. no need for new product development (besides ketchup doesn't work well with m-ronis, KD gotta have cheese), or 3. be prepared for a smaller pack of KD in the future - well, maybe the box stays the same size, the content weight will shrink and no more 3 packs for a buck! (even at DOL). :biggrin:




> ... Obviously, the current Liberal provincial gov't doesn't seem to see the "forest for the trees' of the trend of US based companies slowing pulling up roots and moving back to the US to maintain or increase profit margins.


 ... and the current gov't in charge, do they care? Or too busy with war efforts, elsewhere?

I think the average Joe/Jane Canadian can do something - perhaps as insignificant as boycotting buying the products manufactured elsewhere other than Made in Canada. I'm glad at least we still have Bombardier as a global player in the transport manufacturing industry and then there is Canada Goose, for the time being.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> 2. no need for new product development (besides ketchup doesn't work well with m-ronis, KD gotta have cheese),


Some people like ketchup on everything. Lots of pasta products have tomato sauce and ketchup is just a thick tomato sauce product. I happen to still have the original (" Heinz..is there any other kindz?") because they put that "magic ingredient" in it... the same way with Kraft and their powdered cheese sauce. 

Now on my squeeze bottle of "Gen-u-whine Heinz..is there any other kindz?"..it still says "Proudly Prepared in Canada"..but I suspect it was a bottle I bought a year ago at least. 

Now the ingredients: tomato paste (made from fresh ripe tomatoes), liquid sugar, white vinegar, salt, potassium chloride, FLAVOURS, onion powder, SPICES.

the two ingredients they list (in caps) are the "magic ingredients", just like Kraft's KD cheese sauce "natural flavours", which just like the "Colonel's chicken breaded coating made from"12 secret herbs and spices'
which cannot be duplicated, or Coke's original formula.

We have been conditioned to the taste....now we are slaves to the greedy American industrialists that will "milk us" by still allowing us to buy US made products at a discounted Canadian dollar, and shrinking package sizes to maintain their profit margins.

Now, I have tried other brand ketchups and somehow it doesn't taste the same, KD is similar..tried some other store brands..
yuch! That cheese sauce doesn't taste as good..although anyone can manufacture the macaroni...maybe it's the sugar in the sauce?..7g per 56g of the dry ingredients...or maybe it's that yellow dye #5 they put in the cheese powder? 

yes, I eat it regularly with a few additions..broccoli or califlower..love it...it's conditioned in my brain..can't get enough of KD..gotta have it! :biggrin: 



> Pundit Rex Murphy wrote that "Kraft Dinner revolves in that all-but-unobtainable orbit of the Tim Hortons doughnut and the A&W Teen Burger. It is one of that great trinity of quick digestibles that have been enrolled as genuine Canadian cultural icons."





> or 3. *be prepared for a smaller pack of KD in the future* - well, maybe the box stays the same size, the content weight will shrink and no more 3 packs for a buck! (even at DOL). :biggrin:


I think you "nailed it! Kraft KD weight used to be a bit larger 250g..now it's 225grams. Now with the big conglomerate behind it, it may shrink down to 210 grams. That's 15g less of the pasta..and over the billions sold..it represents big profits for 3G-Capital.

Now don't get me started on another fine Kraft product..CheezeWhiz...modified milk ingredients, some cheese and no artificial colours or flavours...how unique is that today?




> I think the average Joe/Jane Canadian can do something - perhaps as insignificant as boycotting buying the products manufactured elsewhere other than Made in Canada.


Try and impress that on all the little kiddies out there that are dependent on these manufactured cheese snacks from Kraft..they are addicted to these products, just like some of us addicted to KD...and Heinz ketchup. :biggrin:
mmmmm....

http://www.kraftbrands.com/kraftstringcheese/#&panel1-2


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Most of what we see today stated with NAFTA in the eighties.
Big US companies closed up many small operations in Canada, I can think of at least six off the top of my head.

In most cases it only takes about a year to see the impact when companies buy out others starting with management.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Daniel A. said:


> *Most of what we see today stated with NAFTA in the eighties.*Big US companies closed up many small operations in Canada, I can think of at least six off the top of my head.
> 
> In most cases it only takes about a year to see the impact when companies buy out others starting with management.


 ... true.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^ 


> *Carverman: *Some people like ketchup on everything.


 ... true, know someone just like ketchup (and only ketchup, lotsa of it!) on 2 slices of bread. Oh girl. 



> Lots of pasta products have tomato sauce and ketchup is just a thick tomato sauce product. *I happen to still have the original *(" Heinz..is there any other kindz?") because they put that "magic ingredient" in it... the same way with Kraft and their powdered cheese sauce.
> 
> Now on my squeeze bottle of "Gen-u-whine Heinz..is there any other kindz?"..it still says "Proudly Prepared in Canada"..but I suspect it was a bottle I bought a year ago at least.


 .. yes ketchup is a tomato-based sauce but I can't see myself substituting pasta sauce with ketchup ... kinda runny on the pasta and I like my pasta sauce chunky! Whew! For a moment I though you had a bottle that was light years old. :biggrin:



> Now the ingredients: tomato paste (made from fresh ripe tomatoes), liquid sugar, white vinegar, salt, potassium chloride, FLAVOURS, onion powder, SPICES.
> 
> the two ingredients they list (in caps) are the "magic ingredients", just like Kraft's KD cheese sauce "natural flavours", which just like the "Colonel's chicken breaded coating made from"12 secret herbs and spices'
> which cannot be duplicated, or Coke's original formula.


 ... I thought KFC's secret coating recipe had "14" herbs and spices? I suspect the FLAVOURS and SPICES in ketchup are something you never suspect would make it so tasty ... eg. Worchestire's sauce - anchovies. No brand beats Lea Perrins (too bad, not Canadian)! 



> Try and impress that on all the little kiddies out there that are dependent on these manufactured cheese snacks from Kraft..t*hey are addicted to these products, just like some of us addicted to KD...and Heinz ketchup*.
> mmmmm....


 ... very true. Kraft's processed-sliced cheese ... perfect for toaster-grilled-cheese-sandwiches! Works and tastes alot better than Cheeze-Whizzy! :biggrin: Mmmm... I'm getting hungry - lunchtime!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> ... very true. Kraft's *processed-sliced cheese* ... perfect for toaster-grilled-cheese-sandwiches! Works and tastes alot better than Cheeze-Whizzy! :biggrin: Mmmm... I'm getting hungry - lunchtime!


Kraft slices..not real cheese slices but pretty close. :biggrin:

I just had my lunch..Kraft CheezWhiz spread on crisp celery sticks..you put generous amounts of it in the concave
part of the celery stick..yumm!
And I still have Kraft peanut butter (they offer it in chunky or smooth)..I like the smooth one. I used to love Skippy,
the one with the peanut on top..but I don't see it anymore in my local store though, and they got rid of the peanut
on top I believe.
Years ago, peanut butter used to be a staple in kid's lunches at school..nowadays, with so many kids with peanut
allergies...your kid can be expelled from school for bringing in anything with peanut butter in it. How times have
changed.



> Skippy is a brand of peanut butter manufactured in the USA. First sold in 1933, Skippy is currently manufactured by Hormel Foods, which bought the brand from Unilever in 2013.
> It is the best-selling brand of peanut butter in China


https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/too-soon-whether-job-cuts-heinz-kraft-merger-162651187.html


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