# QAnon terrorist threat



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

QAnon is a far right conspiracy theory movement (or cult) with crazy beliefs. The FBI describes it as a domestic terrorist threat.

Trump praises QAnon, and has retweeted their accounts. Members of the terrorist movement are often seen at his rallies. So Trump supports domestic terrorists (not the first time)

Also see: The Week QAnon Became Everyone’s Problem

A man from Manitoba recently loaded up his truck with weapons, drove to Ottawa and rammed into the Prime Minister's home in an attempt to assassinate him. He was a QAnon follower:

QAnon’s Madness Is Turning Canadians Into Potential Assassins

Canadians, like Americans, tend to ignore this stuff even when it's staring them directly in the face because they are conditioned to expect brown-skinned terrorists; this creates a blind spot. This QAnon terrorist tried to kill the Prime Minister and the RCMP has failed to identify the movement, and is failing to arrest its radicals.

So do your part to keep our communities, and country safe.

If you encounter someone who spreads QAnon messages online (Facebook etc) they have likely been radicalized and could be dangerous. I recommend reporting them to the RCMP's terrorism division or CSIS:

National Security Information Network | Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Reporting National Security Information - Canada.ca
Someone who has been radicalized needs help, and you're not doing them a favour by ignoring it. This stuff happens on the internet in the places YOU hang out.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

If you reported everyone with crazy beliefs you'd be on the phone all day.
I'm worried about the real problems out there, not some crazy satanic sex cult conspiracy.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> If you reported everyone with crazy beliefs you'd be on the phone all day.
> I'm worried about the real problems out there, not some crazy satanic sex cult conspiracy.


The guy tried to kill the PM ... it's a real problem.

In fact, if you go to just about any far-right Canadian Facebook page, you'll find plenty of QAnon content. The language among these people often threatens politicians and even talks about killing Canadian political figures. I consider that to be pretty serious, and it's very widespread.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> The guy tried to kill the PM ... it's a real problem.
> 
> In fact, if you go to just about any far-right Canadian Facebook page, you'll find plenty of QAnon content. It shows up among Yellow Vest people as well. The language among these people often threatens politicians and even talks about killing Canadian political figures.


Well if there are people actually taking action, they should of course pursue that.
I disapprove of violence, which is why I disapprove of the violent riots rocking the US.

I'm not scrolling through Facebook conspiracy groups, or far-right groups.

It's a waste of time, and the extremist elements have no interest to me. There are enough legitimate problems to deal with. No reason to get distracted with ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims. Like those you suggest QAnon is making.
I don't pay any attention to flat earthers either.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Violent rioters from the US do not translate into Canada. There are no violent riots happening in Canada. It's because we don't have cops going out every week and lynching black people.

But violent American extremists (like QAnon and other far-right MAGA groups) *do* influence Canadians and create parallel movements here. They do exist here, obviously in AB and MB at the very least.

You are wasting your time obsessing over these US riots. They are not a Canadian issue. But people radicalized by the American far-right ARE an issue here, and they've already carried out several violent attacks in Canada. They are going to kill more Canadians.

Not only that, but Trump energizes these movements (which cross into Canada). As the elections get closer, the probability of violent right-wing attacks in Canada rises.

In contrast, there is no threat to life in Canada posed by the rioters which you are obsessing over. You have a bizarrely US-centric view of all of this. Chicago residents don't live in Canada.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Violent rioters from the US do not translate into Canada. There are no violent riots happening in Canada. It's because we don't have cops going out every week and lynching black people.
> 
> But violent American extremists (like QAnon and other far-right MAGA groups) *do* influence Canadians and create parallel movements here. They do exist here, obviously in AB and MB at the very least.
> 
> ...


Actually we DO have violent American extremists trying to take hold in Canada.
Look at the number of statues they've torn down.

I agree that the violence is getting worse.
I'm just not blind to the reality that while there are a lot of fine people on both sides, a lot of the violence and damage is being committed by the left.

How much property damage have "right wing extremists" made, how many statues have they torn down?

The people being radicalized by the far left far outweights anything the right is doing.
There are literally mobs of thousands vandalizing across the country, in the name of the left.

And you're stuck pulling up silly Satantic sex cult conspiracies nobody has ever heard of.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

There are fruitcakes and nutbars in every county-including Canada.

Unfortunately they come alive, thrive, and recruit when the economy is poor, unemployment is high, and there is a degree of social unrest on the horizon.

Just this week we had an MP tweeting an article from an extremest paper suggested that our Finance Minister was looking far too cozy when interviewing George Soros ( of Qanon conspiracy theory fame) during her time a a financial reporter years ago. The suggestion was obvious.

Unfortunately, and to his shame IMHO, the Leader of her party did not denounce the tweet.

Just look at some of the ridiculous comments that Derek Sloan made during his leadership bid.

I have a SIL that absolutely believes most of those crazy conspiracy theories, even those that contradict each other. Don't ask me why she believes what she does because I don't have a clue.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> Unfortunately they come alive, thrive, and recruit when the economy is poor, unemployment is high, and there is a degree of social unrest on the horizon.
> 
> Just this week we had an MP tweeting an article from an extremest paper suggested that our Finance Minister was looking far too cozy when interviewing George Soros ( of Qanon conspiracy theory fame) during her time a a financial reporter years ago. The suggestion was obvious.


Wow, didn't catch this one. Who was this?



ian said:


> Unfortunately, and to his shame IMHO, the Leader of her party did not denounce the tweet.


The problem is that the Conservative party in Canada does embrace this stuff, basically following the Republican lead. This is extremely dangerous. Remember, Scheer's campaign manager was a Rebel media guy, and Rebel is basically a far right / conspiracy nut outlet. We saw this stuff begin to pop up under the last campaign.

It's possible Conservatives will follow the Republican playbook and start down this road.

I lived in the US and watched the Trump cult grow and brainwash the population. It happened before my eyes. The same thing can happen here, especially with everyone's addictions to social media *and* the huge US media influence.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

How come the same people who fell for the Russia collusion hoax (among others) are lecturing about conspiracy theories?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Wow, didn't catch this one. Who was this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The problem with the Conservative party is they are basically "Trudeau Bad", it's the exact same problem the Dems have in the US.


The Rebel is just s**t disturbers, haven't seen much conspiracy stuff, but other than the interesting FOIA responses, they're quite boring.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

james...the MP was Kerry Ann Findlay. And it was re-tweeted by Pierre Poilieve.

To my knowledge.. still not one word from O'Toole. Sad.









Conservative MP under fire for tweet with anti-Semitic undertones


Anti-hate groups and Jewish associations say a now-deleted tweet from long-time Conservative MP Kerry-Lynne Findlay spread potentially dangerous anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.



www.ctvnews.ca


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> james...the MP was Kerry Ann Findlay. And it was re-tweeted by Pierre Poilieve.
> 
> To my knowledge.. still not one word from O'Toole. Sad.
> 
> ...


Definitely antisemitic behaviour that is intolerable


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Criticism of Netflix's 'Cuties' isn't about the movie. It's a cynical ploy in the culture war.

QAnon (and some of the nuttier Republicans) have turned against this movie on Netflix.



> It’s legitimately upsetting to see this movie so cynically hijacked. It’s a very witty indie film — impeccably framed and shot — about the tug-of-war between Amy’s Sengalese Muslim heritage (which is brutally subjugating her mother) and her new French friends’ brazenness as they compete with older girls in dance competitions where they borrow choreography from sexy American music videos.
> . . .
> It is, annoyingly, important to state plainly that “Cuties” does not portray child abuse, it does not glorify or countenance pedophilia in any way, and it does not “sexualize” its characters — which is, to put it plainly, *a favorite description of people so disturbed by their own reaction to a piece of art that they have to quickly plant the blame for that reaction on the artist before anyone notices*. Doucouré’s movie is about platonic relationships between women and girls; there is no sexuality to be had anywhere in this movie, which makes the outrage over it seem all the more extraterrestrial.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Criticism of Netflix's 'Cuties' isn't about the movie. It's a cynical ploy in the culture war.
> 
> QAnon (and some of the nuttier Republicans) have turned against this movie on Netflix.


Have you watched the movie?

I don't know of a single person who's watched it and said it's appropriate.
I do know people who have seen it, or clips, and decided it is inappropriate.

Yes it's a cynical ploy in the culture war, the "defense" is that it was directed by an immigrant woman of colour.
Not that it isn't inappropriate in itself.

But hey, lefties seem happy with being part of rape culture, it shouldn't be a suprise.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Any scientist or doctor that speaks against the lies that are being told about Corona is being silenced & being labeled a conspiracy nut job. Yet these guys will not take your freedom & liberty away.

There are law suits for seeding the nursing homes with Covid. Now the CDC well hidden on their website say only 6% of the deaths from Covid were from Covid. Less then 10,000 deaths with 90% being aged. I had started a thread concerning the low death count with a link which I do not see on this site anymore. Maybe it got moved though let the reader do their own thinking instead of hiding or removing that which the sheeple think is not true

Do not take what I say as the truth look it up for yourself. Destroy the sheeple in you be an independent thinker


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Criticism of Netflix's 'Cuties' isn't about the movie. It's a cynical ploy in the culture war.
> 
> QAnon (and some of the nuttier Republicans) have turned against this movie on Netflix.


So if you're against the exploitation of children that's alt-right? I bet you're not even ashamed of yourself for having that opinion.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> So if you're against the exploitation of children that's alt-right? I bet you're not even ashamed of yourself for having that opinion.


They're not ashamed, and that's the problem, they're in such a warped us-them mindset, they reactive object to EVERYTHING the "other side" says.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> They're not ashamed, and that's the problem, they're in such a warped us-them mindset, they reactive object to EVERYTHING the "other side" says.


I honestly can't even understand what you guys are rambling about above.

This is a movie on Netflix. There is no obvious problem with this movie, other than it happens to contain young girls who wear dance costumes. The movie does not exploit children in any way.

If someone sees that as sexual or it turns them on, then THAT person has a problem. It's not the problem of the creator of the movie.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I honestly can't even understand what you guys are rambling about above.
> 
> This is a movie on Netflix. There is no obvious problem with this movie, other than it happens to contain young girls who wear dance costumes. The movie does not exploit children in any way.
> 
> If someone sees that as sexual or it turns them on, then THAT person has a problem. It's not the problem of the creator of the movie.


Some people who have seen it find it offensive.

Have you seen the movie?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I honestly can't even understand what you guys are rambling about above.
> 
> This is a movie on Netflix. There is no obvious problem with this movie, other than it happens to contain young girls who wear dance costumes. The movie does not exploit children in any way.
> 
> If someone sees that as sexual or it turns them on, then THAT person has a problem. It's not the problem of the creator of the movie.


I'm not turned on by young girls in tight outfits dancing like strippers...I'm horrified and disgusted. And I'm disgusted by anyone who defends it.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> So if you're against the exploitation of children that's alt-right? I bet you're not even ashamed of yourself for having that opinion.


It's not being against child exploitation that's alt-right -- it's the particular brand of right-wing paranoia of seeing pedos around every corner.

It reminds me of the satanic panic of the 1980's... they were spouting the exact same kind of conspiracy theories about ritual sexual abuse. The kids were supposedly being brainwashed by playing Dungeons & Dragons and joining satanic cults... what ever happened to that? LOL.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

nathan79 said:


> It's not being against child exploitation that's alt-right -- it's the particular brand of right-wing paranoia of seeing pedos around every corner.


Did you see the movie? Do you think it's appropriate?
I don't know a single person who's said they've seen it, and said it's just fine.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

nathan79 said:


> It reminds me of the satanic panic of the 1980's... they were spouting the exact same kind of conspiracy theories about ritual sexual abuse. The kids were supposedly being brainwashed by playing Dungeons & Dragons and joining satanic cults... what ever happened to that? LOL.


They grew up to be Joe Manganiello and Vin Diesel. And your remembrance of the Satanic panic is on point: Why are right-wing conspiracies so obsessed with pedophilia?

But, in reality the pedophilia aspect of Qanon is just a cover so that if you dare criticize Qanon, they come back with "Well you support pedophilia". Unfortunately, this actually hampers real work to deal with pedophilia as resources are being used to deal with fake cases that get reported. Baseless Wayfair child-trafficking theory spreads online


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I honestly can't even understand what you guys are rambling about above.
> 
> This is a movie on Netflix. There is no obvious problem with this movie, other than it happens to contain young girls who wear dance costumes. The movie does not exploit children in any way.
> 
> If someone sees that as sexual or it turns them on, then THAT person has a problem. It's not the problem of the creator of the movie.


It is quite possible to find it disturbing to see young children being encouraged to code themselves as post-pubescent/sexually available. It's not about being attracted to them, it's about psychological harm done to children by prematurely sexualizing them/making them objects of desire. I found it disturbing to have toddler beauty pageants with kids caked in makeup etc. I felt bad for those children, as I can only imagine the psychological issues parents must be dealing with if they feel compelled to expose their kids to that.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> It is quite possible to find it disturbing to see young children being encouraged to code themselves as post-pubescent/sexually available. It's not about being attracted to them, it's about psychological harm done to children by prematurely sexualizing them/making them objects of desire. I found it disturbing to have toddler beauty pageants with kids caked in makeup etc. I felt bad for those children, as I can only imagine the psychological issues parents must be dealing with if they feel compelled to expose their kids to that.


These are legitimate complaints, but suburban/conservative culture has long enjoyed things such as Dance Moms (another show), Toddlers and Tiaras (puke!!), and of course, beauty pageants of all kinds. You remember the ones? Popular in Texas and the south.

They have all the same characteristics and have been very popular in conservative areas. Why these new complaints and outrage all of a sudden? It doesn't make sense.

I think the QAnon stuff and this new Netflix stuff is just indicating a general societal stress, instability. It doesn't have to do with this Netflix movie.

Maybe MrMatt or one of the resident outraged conservatives can explain why Dance Moms, Toddlers/etc were all OK, but suddenly this movie is a problem. I used to get my hair cut at a salon which constantly showed this stuff on TV and some of it made me queasy. But the portrayals were not only acceptable among conservatives, but celebrated quite a bit - the shows were extremely popular among "suburban moms". Whatever TV channel these were on was showing them back-to-back, endlessly.

I didn't scream like a lunatic that the hairdresser was a pedophile.



nathan79 said:


> It's not being against child exploitation that's alt-right -- it's the particular brand of right-wing paranoia of seeing pedos around every corner.


Exactly. The paranoia.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I found those shows ('Toddlers and Tiaras') disturbing. I haven't seen this Netflix documentary, so I can't comment. I'm generally pretty uncomfortable with kids in mass entertainment like this. It seems awfully exploitative, and those kids can't provide informed consent to the kind of messed up formative years they are signing up to. Same thing goes for the Youtube channels with parents who exploit their kids as 'talent' in their videos. I think it is a really shitty thing for a parent to do to their child.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> I haven't seen this Netflix documentary, so I can't comment.


I haven't seen it, but it isn't a documentary. It's a French film: Cuties - Wikipedia

The interesting thing is that it is actually an indictment of the whole culture of sexualization of children. I imagine the most fervent people who protest against it, haven't actually watched it.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> These are legitimate complaints, but suburban/conservative culture has long enjoyed things such as Dance Moms (another show), Toddlers and Tiaras (puke!!), and of course, beauty pageants of all kinds. You remember the ones? Popular in Texas and the south.
> 
> They have all the same characteristics and have been very popular in conservative areas. Why these new complaints and outrage all of a sudden? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


Ahh, ask questions of me, but never answer yourself.
Have you seen Cuties, do you think it's okay?

All I'm saying is that many people from across the political spectrum think it's inappropriate. 
As far as the other shows, never watched them, and I've never formed an opinion on them being okay or not. 
I don't even have a real opinion on Cuties, other than broad ranging reports that it's inappropriate, even YOU are refusing to say it's appropriate, which I find most telling.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I haven't seen it, but it isn't a documentary. It's a French film: Cuties - Wikipedia
> 
> The interesting thing is that it is actually an indictment of the whole culture of sexualization of children. I imagine the most fervent people who protest against it, haven't actually watched it.


I imagine the most fervent people who defend it, haven't actually watched it.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> I imagine the most fervent people who defend it, haven't actually watched it.


I already said I haven't and neither have you. At least I read some reviews and summary to get an idea what it is about. Unlike some who reflexively scream promotes pedophilia because someone told them it was so.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I already said I haven't and neither have you. At least I read some reviews and summary to get an idea what it is about. Unlike some who reflexively scream promotes pedophilia because someone told them it was so.


I've read some reviews and summaries, and apparently it's a critique of the over sexualization of children, but happens to sexualize children while doing so.
Apparently Netflix has already apologized for some of their promotional materials.

I don't think it's far right to be overtly hostile to this type of content, maybe they're over-reacting.
But again, these right wing "nutters" are the same ones who are glad the police detained someone on an outstanding rape warrant (Jacob Blake).

The problem is that while some might over react against sex crimes, some seem just a little too comfortable with them.
My views conveniently pisses everyone off, since I disagree with both the left and right wing positions.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> I've read some reviews and summaries, and apparently it's a critique of the over sexualization of children, but happens to sexualize children while doing so.
> Apparently Netflix has already apologized for some of their promotional materials.


Here's the thing. When I first saw the promotional material, I would have agreed that it was not appropriate. I personally didn't care to really follow up on it, until I saw this thread. It still doesn't interest me, but the fact that the director was unaware of the promotional material and only found out about it after the controversy would indicate that someone in Netflix really screwed up.

That aside, you have to look at this in context as @james4beach and @andrewf pointed out. TV shows like Toddlers and Tiaras ran for over 5 years and that actually celebrates the culture of pageantry which leads to sexualization of children. There may be some backlash, but considering that it was still on the air for multiple seasons would indicate that people enjoy watching this. Plus, the pageants are still going on in the states, and unlikely to end; whereas in France (where Cuties comes from) actually bans these pageants. The untold truth of childhood beauty pageants

So, it's perfectly reasonable to question why the uproar about a film that condemns this over sexualization in western culture, but support children beauty pageants.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> So, it's perfectly reasonable to question why the uproar about a film that condemns this over sexualization in western culture, but support children beauty pageants.


Yes sounds reasonable, but that's not my point.

My point is 
That there are many who saw the movie and are claiming Cuties is "inappropriate".
People like James are claiming they are wrong, but apparently they haven't seen the movie.
It seems that many people are simply falling back on their political affiliation to determine their opinion on the movie.
I think that's lazy... particularly since there are many leftists (Bernie Sanders supporters) who also think it's inappropriate.
It actually seems that condemnation for this movie crosses political boundaries. 


There are many who oppose children beauty pageants, I'm sure many of them them oppose this movie as well, for similar reasons.

I haven't heard of any pageant supporters who are opposed to this movie, and while there may be similarities, there may also be differences.

Finally I'm pretty much completely ignorant of childrens pageants. I'm not defending them, as I don't know anything about them. 
I'm not even defending or denouncing Cuties, just saying that before you attack those who have concerns with the content of the movie, you should determine if that content actually is problematic. 

I officially have no position on the movie, beyond that many people have said it's not worth watching.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm not inclined to watch it because it holds no appeal to me. I suppose if, as I hear, it is meant as a critique of sexualizing children, I can see how it might have merit over uncritical shows like 'Toddlers and Tiaras'. I suspect though that the critique is too subtle as many seem to be missing it, and perhaps some are enjoying it as more in the same lane as T&T.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> I officially have no position on the movie, beyond that many people have said it's not worth watching.


Here's the thing. People who give generalities like that aren't giving useful opinions. Without saying specifically why it's not worth watching, there's no debate because what it comes down to is, "I don't like it". Great, that's an opinion, but kind of useless to help others figure out whether it is worth watching.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> There are many who oppose children beauty pageants, I'm sure many of them them oppose this movie as well, for similar reasons.


Just a follow-up on this point, people are generally outraged by the movie but aren't outraged by the actual reality. Child beauty pageants are a $5B industry: Inside $5bn Industry Of Child Beauty Pageants. It's not some sort of thing that is hidden in the shadows somewhere. You can say that the same people who are against the movie are also against child beauty pageants, but yet, I haven't heard anything about a backlash against child beauty pageants since this movie became so controversial. 

For example, Ted Cruz has pushed for a DOJ investigation into the movie: Ted Cruz Falsely Claims Netflix’s ‘Cuties’ Shows Child Nudity In Call For DOJ Probe.

There are 3000 pageants based on this paper: https://digitalcommons.georgiasouthern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1471&context=etd
The states identified with the most pageants? California, *Texas*, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia.

Rather than doing something concrete in his state to deal with the actual problem (like banning child beauty pageants in the state he represents), he wants to do some window dressing with the false outrage over the subject. Given that he doesn't seem to care about the pageants themselves, that makes him complicit in accepting and supporting them.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Just a follow-up on this point, people are generally outraged by the movie but aren't outraged by the actual reality. Child beauty pageants are a $5B industry: Inside $5bn Industry Of Child Beauty Pageants. It's not some sort of thing that is hidden in the shadows somewhere. You can say that the same people who are against the movie are also against child beauty pageants, but yet, I haven't heard anything about a backlash against child beauty pageants since this movie became so controversial.
> 
> For example, Ted Cruz has pushed for a DOJ investigation into the movie: Ted Cruz Falsely Claims Netflix’s ‘Cuties’ Shows Child Nudity In Call For DOJ Probe.
> 
> ...


I didn't know that beauty pageants show topless 11yr old girls.

Now there is dispute if this was actually in the film, which is why Ted Cruz is asking for an investigation. Would you prefer that no investigation is done?

As far as pageants in general, if you feel it is exploitative, go ahead, investigate if there are crimes, protest, push for the banning of them. I'm aware some pageants had issues, and there have been investigations, that's a good thing. I'm actually for fighting sexual exploitation everywhere, all the time, as strongly as we can.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> Now there is dispute if this was actually in the film, which is why Ted Cruz is asking for an investigation. Would you prefer that no investigation is done?


Waste DOJ resources for an investigation about underage nudity instead of just watching it and seeing if it exists? It apparently doesn't, which would have been evident if he actually watched it. That's the issue when people start bandwagonning without actually getting some basic facts together.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Waste DOJ resources for an investigation about underage nudity instead of just watching it and seeing if it exists? It apparently doesn't, which would have been evident if he actually watched it. That's the issue when people start bandwagonning without actually getting some basic facts together.


People have watched the movie and claim it does exist, others claim it doesn't exist. That's why they need an investigation. 
If we have 2 people, one says it was underage nudity, and one says it was not, what path should we proceed down? Does it take only 1 persons opinion to make it a crime, or make it not a crime?

Yes, watching the movie would be an "investigation". So pay some FBI agent to watch a few minutes of video, and get clarification that there was no crime committed.
It should be really easy, Cuties can go and say "The clip in question is this person and this is their age", it's really simple.

In addition, you have to remember that in Canada it can be child pornography even if there is no child involved.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> People have watched the movie and claim it does exist, others claim it doesn't exist. That's why they need an investigation.


Why don't you grab some of your conservative buddies, some popcorn, and then have a weekend watching and studying: Cuties, Toddlers and Tiaras, and Dance Moms

Honestly, why do you care so much about this stuff? If you watch any amount of Toddlers and Tiaras ... which is mainstream TV ... you will see stuff just as "shocking" and "disturbing". These shows are popular with conservative, suburban families.









Toddlers and Tiaras: Sexualizing Children | 5 Tips to protect your Child


The TLC Toddlers and Tiaras reality series comes back for a fourth season and creatively highlights the behind the scenes lifestyle of beautiful little girls clawing for the crown…with the assistance




www.totallifecounseling.com





And read the following if you think any of this is new. This thread is from 8 years ago.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/t817z


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Why don't you grab some of your conservative buddies, some popcorn, and then have a weekend watching and studying: Cuties, Toddlers and Tiaras, and Dance Moms
> 
> Honestly, why do you care so much about this stuff? If you watch any amount of Toddlers and Tiaras ... which is mainstream TV ... you will see stuff just as "shocking" and "disturbing". These shows are popular with conservative, suburban families.


I have no interest in watching those shows, I'll leave it to the paid professionals to determine if crimes are being committed.
Why do I care? Because I think child sexual exploitation is wrong.
You claim they're popular with those people, I doubt you'll back that up.
But it doesn't matter who they're popular with, if they're distributing illegal content, they should be prosecuted.

Why are you and bgc so opposed to investigating sex crimes?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I am rendered completely speechless. You might get it if you had kids.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> I have no interest in watching those shows, I'll leave it to the paid professionals to determine if crimes are being committed.
> Why do I care? Because I think child sexual exploitation is wrong.
> You claim they're popular with those people, I doubt you'll back that up.


You have this annoying pattern of ignoring any supporting evidence I link to, and then repeating wording along the lines of "but you don't provide any evidence". Your patterns are very predictable, which shows that you're using a scripted technique -- something you've learned. I can tell that you've been studying right wing propaganda techniques and are mimicking them.

I gave you all the evidence and references. TLC and other TV networks have been running shows for many years which sexualize girls. Those shows have a far greater reach of viewers, so instead of focusing on this Netflix movie, you should go and target those shows as they are a much bigger deal (if you really care about what you say). And keep in mind, you will be attacking shows that are popular with conservative suburban people and southerners.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> You have this annoying pattern of ignoring any supporting evidence I link to, and then repeating wording along the lines of "but you don't provide any evidence". Your patterns are very predictable, which shows that you're using a scripted technique -- something you've learned. I can tell that you've been studying right wing propaganda techniques and are mimicking them.
> 
> I gave you all the evidence and references. TLC and other TV networks have been running shows for many years which sexualize girls. Those shows have a far greater reach of viewers, so instead of focusing on this Netflix movie, you should go and target those shows as they are a much bigger deal (if you really care about what you say). And keep in mind, you will be attacking shows that are popular with conservative suburban people and southerners.


You complained about the opposition to the Netflix film "cuties". It's not clear if you have investigated to determine if the criticism is warranted or not. I'm happy to let professionals investigate, since it's clear that there is some disagreement here.

You then engaged in whataboutism on other shows and events.

I just keep asking for evidence, because you almost never provide it.
Remember the Oregon Secret police? You posted images of uniformed CPB officers, with POLICE and CPB identification clearly visible on the image as "proof".

Just because some people have decided that they are going to attack one single problematic instance isn't an issue.
Just like I don't think that BLM focusing on Floyd Chauvin incident as a single problematic instance is a problem.

It's okay that "both sides" only decided to go after an instance they thought would work.
Rosa Parks wasn't the first, she was just the one they went with.

So yeah, some claim cuties is a problem, it might be. Being concerned about child exploitation shouldn't be a partisan issue. How anyone is opposed to investigating is beyond me. It seems like a no brainer.

The 'reason' the right unites against child sexual exploitation is that it should be a REALLY easy issue to unite behind, just like police brutality and accountability. Everyone should be behind these concepts. They're mostly unifying ideals.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> If we have 2 people, one says it was underage nudity, and one says it was not, what path should we proceed down? Does it take only 1 persons opinion to make it a crime, or make it not a crime?


I'd say the balance of probabilities is that there is no underage nudity and that the people who say that, haven't seen it.

Here are 2 movie review websites that I would say are pretty conservative, and overall.








CUTIES


The lead actress who plays Amy does a convincing job, but the movie’s awful subject matter, foul language and lewd content...




www.movieguide.org




Lists all the nudity and implied nudity in the movie, but doesn't make any mention of of this underage nudity.




__





Cuties Movie Review


Poignant drama is candid about tween sexuality; language. Read Common Sense Media's Cuties review, age rating, and parents guide.




www.commonsensemedia.org




Lots of comments with people talking about specific scenes that they find offensive. Again, no mention of underage nudity, except for one comment who states that there is, based on the IMDB website.

You'd think that if there was underage nudity, that would be one of the more contentious scenes would it not?

Here's another article about the controversy: Wait, What’s Going on With Netflix and Cuties?
Basically, Netflix messed up on the marketing. But the last paragraph is key to this thread:
_At this point, many people have pointed out that the sorts of junior dance teams depicted and commented upon in Paris-based Cuties have long been a part of American pop culture, in everything from Dance Moms to Toddlers & Tiaras. Alas, such an acknowledgment has done little to stymie the #CancelNetflix hashtag or the organized harassment of critics who positively reviewed the film._


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

From anther site.








Cuties (2020) - IMDb


Cuties (2020) Parents Guide and Certifications from around the world.




www.imdb.com





Investigate it, find out the truth, and get over it.

Really if they can investigate, even arrest people for explicitly lawful acts, some FBI agent can watch a darn movie.


Whataboutism isn't a defense to crime.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I'll paraphrase your link...When caught with her cousin's phone, an 11-year-old girl locks herself in the bathroom, pulls down her pants and snaps a picture of her private area before publishing it online. No nudity is actually shown. However, The camera focuses on the child removing her jeans and her underwear and spreading her legs.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> I'll paraphrase your link...When caught with her cousin's phone, an 11-year-old girl locks herself in the bathroom, pulls down her pants and snaps a picture of her private area before publishing it online. No nudity is actually shown. However, The camera focuses on the child removing her jeans and her underwear and spreading her legs.


You didn't even read the second paragraph?
"Entire breast of minor is visible."


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> You didn't even read the second paragraph?
> "Entire breast of minor is visible."


Nice you focused on that. You forgot the fact that no one actually collaborates that's the case, other than an anonymous post. My point is that Ted Cruz cites that as his proof, and Netflix denies it. Ted Cruz Falsely Claims Netflix’s ‘Cuties’ Shows Child Nudity In Call For DOJ Probe
I've pointed out that other sites make no mention of such a scene even though they list all the other examples of nudity or partial nudity. 



Eder said:


> I'll paraphrase your link...When caught with her cousin's phone, an 11-year-old girl locks herself in the bathroom, pulls down her pants and snaps a picture of her private area before publishing it online. *No nudity is actually shown*. However, The camera focuses on the child removing her jeans and her underwear and spreading her legs.


So basically it could be a scene of the girl being videoed from the waist up making movements to take off her pants, or on her feet where you see the pants drop and you see her widen her feet. But the key is that no nudity is actually shown.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> So yeah, some claim cuties is a problem, it might be. Being concerned about child exploitation shouldn't be a partisan issue. How anyone is opposed to investigating is beyond me. It seems like a no brainer.


_Everyone_ is concerned about child exploitation. That includes law enforcement and FBI. I don't see why this is your mission to solve. The Pizzagate gunman thought it was his mission to rescue the children trapped in the pizza restaurant's basement. That's the kind of craziness that QAnon obsessions can lead to and I think it's dangerous.

Law enforcement is very competent. Netflix is a massive company that follows laws. If the movie breaks the law, I'm sure it will be handled. Obviously law enforcement will review and look into this. You don't think anyone at the FBI is going to look into this?

My guess (yes a total guess) is that this is in the same category as Toddlers & Tiaras, Dance Moms, and all the child beauty pageants and dance studios. If there's something actually illegal in this new movie, then I'm confident that law enforcement will do something.

They certainly have enough panicked people phoning their hotline round the clock, we can be sure about that.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

bgc_fan said:


> Basically, Netflix messed up on the marketing. But the last paragraph is key to this thread:
> _At this point, many people have pointed out that the sorts of junior dance teams depicted and commented upon in Paris-based Cuties have long been a part of American pop culture, in everything from Dance Moms to Toddlers & Tiaras. Alas, such an acknowledgment has done little to stymie the #CancelNetflix hashtag or the organized harassment of critics who positively reviewed the film._


Exactly what I've been saying since the start. And I will again remind everyone that conservatives / southerners have been avid viewers of this stuff for a long time. Suburban moms love it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> If you reported everyone with crazy beliefs you'd be on the phone all day.
> *I'm worried about the real problems out there, not some crazy satanic sex cult conspiracy.*


13 days ago you posted this. And now here you are, posting enthusiastically about QAnon's latest crazy pedophile conspiracy... trying to _propagate_ it!

You've helped make my point that the QAnon crazies are a significant force. They're even influencing _your_ behaviour. Earlier you posted another one of their conspiracy theories, that a noteworthy US politician was a pedophile.

Maybe you don't see that you're getting wrapped up in the insanity? Please man, turn off Fox News. Stop spending time on Facebook. Those outlets will drive you nuts over time.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

If you want to talk about real problems....






Yikes.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> 13 days ago you posted this. And now here you are, posting enthusiastically about QAnon's latest crazy pedophile conspiracy... trying to _propagate_ it!
> 
> You've helped make my point that the QAnon crazies are a significant force. They're even influencing _your_ behaviour. Earlier you posted another one of their conspiracy theories, that a noteworthy US politician was a pedophile.
> 
> Maybe you don't see that you're getting wrapped up in the insanity? Please man, turn off Fox News. Stop spending time on Facebook. Those outlets will drive you nuts over time.


Actually my point is that you're "denouncing" their "crazy conspiracy", but I pointed out that you haven't even done the most basic research to see if it's there.

I did not say a noteworth US politician was a pedophile.
I said that a specific politician had, on video, engaged in unwanted, touching of young girls. Specifically hugging and hair sniffing.
The videos are still up.

I'm not propogating that Cuties is anything, I'm simply pointing out that apparently nobody here has even watched it, so we're all ignorant of the actual content.
If anything you're the one going nuts saying there is a billion dollar exploit industry that has invaded mainstream TV through dance moms etc.

Also you keep referring to Fox News, which I guess is another mainstream conspiracy. Maybe you're the right wing nutter chasing conspiracy theories?

FWIW I don't watch Fox news, or go on Facebook for news.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Another example of a tangible threat of violence due to QAnon in Canada. This time centered in Quebec:

Quebec extremists radicalized by COVID-19 conspiracy theories could turn to violence, experts warn

The article talks about a QAnon conspiracy theory believer who has been threatening Premier Legault. He's been arrested and pleaded guilty to uttering death threats. Certainly sounds like a close parallel to the Manitoba man who attacked Trudeau's residence with a truck full of weapons, also a QAnon conspiracy nut.

The number of threats to Quebec politicians has increased dramatically since last year.

​The suspects all have Facebook accounts that promote conspiracy theories about COVID-19, including some that originate from QAnon, a conspiracy movement that began in the U.S. and is now considered a national security threat by the FBI.​​*Experts who monitor extremist groups in Quebec are concerned about the role conspiracy theories are playing in radicalizing online behaviour, and the possibility it could turn into real-world violence. *​​"We've seen it before, and it was called Alexandre Bissonnette," said Martin Geoffroy, who heads an anti-radicalization research centre at Cégep Édouard-Montpetit, a public francophone college in Longueuil.​. . .​​"QAnon is ravaging the mainstream population right now," Geoffroy said. "This is part of the collateral damage of the pandemic."​​


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

The left has to go back many years/decades to Bissonette or McVeigh to find their alt right terrorists. But Antifa terrorists are active today, were active yesterday, the day before, and in fact every day for the last several months.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> The left has to go back many years/decades to Bissonette or McVeigh to find their alt right terrorists. But Antifa terrorists are active today, were active yesterday, the day before, and in fact every day for the last several months.


Uhhhh....









Dylann Roof - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













2019 El Paso shooting - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Pittsburgh synagogue shooting - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Any list you make is a very small percentage of leftist violence.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> Any list you make is a very small percentage of leftist violence.


You know, US intelligence and the DHS actually studies this matter. Their own reports say that domestic terrorism in the US is nearly entirely right wing, with hardly any far left radicals. Basically the left doesn't even make the stats, in comparison to the horrendous number of far right attacks and active groups.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Any list you make is a very small percentage of leftist violence.


Better haul those goal posts. I thought you said all the right wing terror incidents were 90s or earlier?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Any list you make is a very small percentage of leftist violence.


When was the last left-wing terror attack in the US that left 20 people dead?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Apparently, the German far-right loves QAnon too. It seems to have merged with some of the Nazi-related conspiracy theory beliefs. So now, in Germany you'll see far-right rallies that feature Q and Trump symbols, together with Imperial German flags -- carried by neo-Nazis, since precise Nazi symbols can't legally be displayed.

_See_: Bloomberg article on QAnon in Germany

QAnon recycles anti-semitic tropes along the lines of the 'blood libel' and the conspiracy of powerful rich global elites, even picking on Soros (overt antismitism). I don't know about you guys but I can't dismiss this as a bit of internet craziness. This is cult-like conspiracy theory obsession that is also antisemitic, and now being adopted by European neo-Nazis.

First a QAnon terrorist tries to kill our Prime Minister, and now actual German neo-Nazis have joined the cult. This is very dangerous. The German far-right assassinated a politician last year. It's possible that various right wing extremists and neo-nazis are organizing _internationally_ under the QAnon banner.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Ever think maybe they should do something about the violent extremists ?

It isn't their political affiliation that's the problem, it's that they're violent.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> When was the last left-wing terror attack in the US that left 20 people dead?


At least 20 people have been killed in the last 3 months of alt-left terrorist rioting.

I could find many more incidents but really can't be bothered do do your research.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> At least 20 people have been killed in the last 3 months of alt-left terrorist rioting.
> 
> I could find many more incidents but really can't be bothered do do your research.


In other words, there are no such attacks.

You can't call a series of individual murders/deaths a terrorist attack.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> In other words, there are no such attacks.
> 
> You can't call a series of individual murders/deaths a terrorist attack.


Do you know the meaning of the word "terrorism"?

*Terrorism* is *defined* in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives”


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

So it is not sufficient to claim that a crime that was done by 'left wing' individuals was terrorism, you have to demonstrate that the purpose of the crime was intimidation or coercion for political or social objectives. Looting a store is not terrorism. I would also say that while all terrorist acts meet that definition, not all acts that meet that definition would be deemed terrorism. Is a protest outside Queens Park where people force their way into the building by getting past security a terrorist attack? It would seem to meet the definition.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> So it is not sufficient to claim that a crime that was done by 'left wing' individuals was terrorism, you have to demonstrate that the purpose of the crime was intimidation or coercion for political or social objectives. Looting a store is not terrorism. I would also say that while all terrorist acts meet that definition, not all acts that meet that definition would be deemed terrorism. Is a protest outside Queens Park where people force their way into the building by getting past security a terrorist attack? It would seem to meet the definition.


If the intent is to use violence, then yes.

So a large protest that spills out wouldn't be.
But people who use violence as a form of coercion are terrorists.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I guess more racist paedophilia nonsense from fringe alt right groups?

...anyway I hope the logs become public & these deviants get put in jail where cons will give them what they deserve.









Names of everyone who flew on Jeffrey Epstein's planes subpoenaed by U.S. Virgin Islands AG


The flight logs would include records on Epstein's four helicopters and three planes — one of which was dubbed the 'Lolita Express' — spanning from 1998 until…




nationalpost.com





Bye bye Bill....(I hope)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/07/11/us/politics/09dc-trumpspstein1/09dc-trumpspstein1-superJumbo-v2.jpg


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/07/11/us/politics/09dc-trumpspstein1/09dc-trumpspstein1-superJumbo-v2.jpg


You realize that Trump banned Epstein from his property because of his behaviour towards women, right?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

While we're casting aspersions...

Why does Bill Clinton matter at this point? Should we be talking about Reagan and Nixon, too?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> While we're casting aspersions...
> 
> Why does Bill Clinton matter at this point? Should we be talking about Reagan and Nixon, too?


Well Bill shouldn't matter much, he's done a good job of being a nice quiet former president who's generally staying out of politics, like any former leader generally should do. I think supporting your wife isn't a violation of that general principle.

That being said, if he was using his position to exploit women, morally that should be investigated and prosecuted.
From a pragmatic standpoint, they shouldn't bother there is no way anyone will convict Clinton, I doubt they'll even come up with enough to get charges. Also imagine the friends and favours he's owed
That's why former leaders tend to get a free pass to simply go away once they're "out" of politics.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump banned Epstein from Mara Lago after Epstein made a competing bid on a large Florida estate, which enraged Trump.

Trump held a private "calendar girl" contest at Mara Lago that Epstein and Trump were the only attendees.

By his own admission, Trump was a friend of Epstein's for more than 15 years. Two peas in the same pod.

The rich and famous are "shitting" their pants with the investigation now gathering flight logs and interrogating the pilots and island chef.

Anyone involved in this debauchery should go to prison...........ALL of them.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Trump banned Epstein from Mara Lago after Epstein made a competing bid on a large Florida estate, which enraged Trump.
> 
> Trump held a private "calendar girl" contest at Mara Lago that Epstein and Trump were the only attendees.
> 
> ...


Not gonna happen.
They'll never convict them, and I don't think they'll even get enough evidence to charge them, even then, something will happen so they don't spill the beans.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Some people are observing that the MAGA-based QAnon is taking on the characteristics of a new religion.

Some pastors are encountering problems as QAnon challenges their churches. A pastor at a Calgary based church observed many members of the congregation sharing QAnon conspiracy theories, with a religious fervour. The pastor came to see that it's like a religious force.

That would be a perfect way to cap 2020. A new internet-based religion with Trump as a new messiah, with crazed members running off and carrying out extremist attacks.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some QAnon rhetoric is considered hate speech in Canada and they should be tracked down and charged.

The US needs to examine their speech laws. They are over 200 years old and need updating.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Some people are observing that the MAGA-based QAnon is taking on the characteristics of a new religion.
> 
> Some pastors are encountering problems as QAnon challenges their churches. A pastor at a Calgary based church observed many members of the congregation sharing QAnon conspiracy theories, with a religious fervour. The pastor came to see that it's like a religious force.
> 
> That would be a perfect way to cap 2020. A new internet-based religion with Trump as a new messiah, with crazed members running off and carrying out extremist attacks.


I'm much more concerned with mobs of rioters killing dozens, and destroying neighbourhoods.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The Economic Terrorists on Wall Street have done more looting and destruction than a few rioters have caused.




__





JPMorgan Chase | Violation Tracker


Violation Tracker, produced by the Corporate Research Project of Good Jobs First, is a wide-ranging database on misconduct by large and small corporations throughout the United States.




violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Another Q Anon attempted terrorist attack. I also suspect we might start getting MAGA terrorist attacks in coming days and weeks.

Two QAnon men drove to the site of Pennsylvania vote counting (with vote-counting in progress), armed with several illegal weapons. Police were tipped off about an imminent attack and luckily caught the guys.









Armed suspected QAnon supporters arrested over alleged plot to attack Philadelphia Convention Center


The arrests were made in the wake of the president making false and potentially incendiary claims about voter fraud




www.salon.com





Luckily this attack was stopped before there was violence, just like the QAnon attempted assassination of Trudeau.

How many of these nuts are out there?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Another Q Anon attempted terrorist attack. I also suspect we might start getting MAGA terrorist attacks in coming days and weeks.
> 
> Two QAnon men drove to the site of Pennsylvania vote counting (with vote-counting in progress), armed with several illegal weapons. Police were tipped off about an imminent attack and luckily caught the guys.
> 
> ...


Ask the experts.
I'd guess only a few thousand who are independently willing to go be violent.
Lets say you can simmer for 5 years (which I think is too long for an angry impatient person), with incidents so rare it's not many people.
Even that being said, there has been an increase in stressors lately, elections, COVID, economic.
That being said while there are thousands who might become violent, it's not like there are even hundreds a year at this point.

That's distinct from mobs, which are a totally different dynamic, and unfortunately much more common.
The important thing is mob leaders/inciters tend to be careful to not get caught themselves.


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