# Help: new to trading



## bettrave (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm new to trading.
Today, I bought and sold HGU.TO
I use Questrade.
Bought 900 shares at 5.37$
Sold 450 at 5.39$ and 450 at 5.42$
I bought at market price.
I placed an order to sell 450 at 5.42$, then changed it to 5.39$ and then sold at 5.39
I placed an order to sell 450 at 5.42$, then sold it a while after.
I gained 31,50$, but in my account I only have 9.27$ more.
They charge me a commission of 9,95$ each time I sold.
So, I should have 11.60$ more, not 9.27$.
I asked on live chat and they response that it was ECN fees.
Can someone explain me ECN fees?
And, it seems that I can avoid those fees, how?
Thank you!


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

http://www.questrade.com/pricing/exchange_ecn_fees.aspx


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## bettrave (Jan 10, 2013)

For exemple:
Bought 900 shares at 5.37$. Fees are 12.15$
Why?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bettrave it bothers me to see a new investor doing this. It's suicide for the account.

one cmf forum member had tiny penny trades down to an art form. Most days he'd manage to collect at least lunch money. Little by little, his tiny grains of sand built up. Last heard from, he had a small sandspit that had surfaced above the waters.

the difference is, he knew what he was doing. Isn't there something you can study that will give you a better grip on the market. Buying blind, selling blind in 2 different lots (2 commish) moments later, then complaining about the broker is time & effort wasted ...


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## bettrave (Jan 10, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> bettrave it bothers me to see a new investor doing this. It's suicide for the account.
> 
> one cmf forum member had tiny penny trades down to an art form. Most days he'd manage to collect at least lunch money. Little by little, his tiny grains of sand built up. Last heard from, he had a small sandspit that had surfaced above the waters.
> 
> the difference is, he knew what he was doing. Isn't there something you can study that will give you a better grip on the market. Buying blind, selling blind in 2 different lots (2 commish) moments later, then complaining about the broker is time & effort wasted ...


Sorry to bother you ...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Just wondering what would you do if stock would go down 2-3% half an hour after you bought it?!

If you like to continue with such trading, move account to CIBC Investor Edge, so pay one 1 time commission 6.95 on all your buys a,d 6.95 on all your sell during the day.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Ethan said:


> http://www.questrade.com/pricing/exchange_ecn_fees.aspx


What the hell is it?! I've never heard about such fees in TDW and Investor Edge


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

take the hint, bettrave. You're in no shape to be fooling around like this.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> I've never heard about such fees in TDW and Investor Edge


They do charge as well, but never so high.

*Bettrave:* why did you buy at market price?! Was there a particular reason why you traded this today? 

I noticed that the ETF started at $5.25, so it seems you were chasing it on the way up; that is dangerous to do for a newbie, especially if you did not have good reasons for trading it, ie: did it blindly. I gather you panicked, and hence you exited 1/2 your position for .2 cents profit in probably as many minutes. 

Have you done any virtual trading before you did it live? Have you read any books about trading? I would start doing these 2 first for a couple of months at the very least.

You invested $4,833 + your trading costs, which is not a small amount of money, *AND* which could have easily gone down a few % points. Look how it opened yesterday @ $5.52 & closed @ $5.18. Had you placed your trade yesterday, you would have ended in the red as the stock did not recover from the open.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

bettrave, HGU is a double leveraged (2X) Gold Bull ETF.
Are you sure you know what that means and how it works?

Day trading for a first time investor is dangerous enough, but your choice of the security makes it particularly rash.
I second humble_pie, Toronto.Gal and others above that are suggesting you learn a little more about trading and investing first.

The fact that you do not understand the commission structure is an additional reg flag.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

The answer you are looking for is TD e-series.

They don't charge ECN fees either.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Add to the fact this poster was previously warned about the broker they are using. The advice was ignored. This follows the pattern of many newbies who only listen to the advice (confirmation bias) that suits what they have already decided to do.

And the $ goes before the amount. It's $5.42, not 5.42$.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

There is no issue with Questrade. I've been using them happily for a couple of years. They don't try and hide the fees either so I'm not sure why the-royal-mail would speak as if this is an issue with the broker.

As for the choice of security to trade. I'm speechless as to why a newbie would try. Is that even worth touching for a professional investor?

For the sake of your money please do not trade this again. There are lots of great contributors to this forum and I would urge you to read through some of the threads. It will save you a lot of money!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

> *the-royal-mail*: Add to the fact this poster was previously warned about the broker they are using. The advice was ignored. This follows the pattern of many newbies who only listen to the advice (confirmation bias) that suits what they have already decided to do.
> 
> *And the $ goes before the amount. It's $5.42, not 5.42$.*


 ... careful, the language police may correct you on that in QC ...lol.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> 1. The advice was ignored. This follows the pattern of many newbies who only listen to the advice (confirmation bias) that suits what they have already decided to do.
> 
> 2. And the $ goes before the amount. It's $5.42, not 5.42$.


1. True enough, but never mind if they ignore the advice or not; it could help others reading, not just the OP.

2. That is the least of his worries; the very high probability of losing twice as fast, is what should be understood here.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> And the $ goes before the amount. It's $5.42, not 5.42$.


juste un ti-mot to royal, one of my favourite members even when he is being crabby.

ere in quebec - wich is were ze beet is from - we ave ze quirkiness to put ze dollar sign after ze amount. With a comma ... 5,42$, comme en france ...


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

OP: The extra fee that you are paying is the least of your worries (though higher in priority than where the $ goes). It's one thing if you are testing the waters, I did that when I first started investing, but you MUST be prepared to lose it all, and consider it a lesson. I suspect you actually hope to make money a few dollars at a time. The risk vs reward for what you are doing is not worth it, once you factor in all the fees. 

Before you start trading (you are not 'investing' by the way), you need to figure out what your actual goals are. 'To make money' is not good enough. Once you define your goals, and your risk tolerance, then you can start looking at investments. Don't forget one of the biggest risks is the actions of the trader. If you are trading on panick, this will be a problem for you.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

T.gal, I just checked my last 2 days ago Buy of TD-T in TDW (for gambit purposes). They charged me exact amount up to 1 penny 

Probably you can do such kind of trading, if I wanted to buy stock for a lng term and than it pops up right away 3% or more, (even though don't beleive phycologically I would do it and I eould be thinking that it will go up more) ... in this case if it even goes down, I'm not worried too much...


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

a very fine thread with some members that i have some discordance .
anyhow .
OP why did u not find out what does HGU trade from horizons if i am not wrong?
why did u not trade with the practice acct if they had one.
an instrument like an ETF has very many factors like erosion and fees . yes fees that u do not really see but they are there.
my history as a newbie (lol was not much different though but boy oh boy did i learn my lessons).
still learning though.
between good and bad trades
good advices here from most members in this thread.
disect this thread stop and start pondering as to where should u start.
u should listen to what has been posted here.
GL


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