# After warranty auto repairs -- anyone have success with GM Canada



## Baccalieu (Nov 9, 2011)

My 2004 Chev Impala with 89,000 km has developed leaks in the manifold gasket and the repair estimate is $1500. This 
problem seems to occur with many GM products from 1995 to 2003, however it looks like 2004 models are also affected. I'm taking the car to the GM dealer on Monday and if they don't give me a break on the repair price I intend to take it up with GM Canada.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Good luck with that. I doubt you will have any success but certainly let us know how it turns out.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Did you buy the car used?

Those cars did indeed have an intake manifold leak but 2004 is a 7 year old car, way past any warranty period. I doubt the dealer will do anything for you. This needed to be dealt with years ago.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

It's a seven year old car.

You might have better success by shopping around for a better repair cost.


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## Baccalieu (Nov 9, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> Did you buy the car used?
> 
> Those cars did indeed have an intake manifold leak but 2004 is a 7 year old car, way past any warranty period. I doubt the dealer will do anything for you. This needed to be dealt with years ago.


It was new off the lot, I purchased it when the 2005 models arrived on scene.
The dealership should have a GM bulletin relating to those faults
and as GM was aware of the problem I feel its something that should
have been corrected while the warranty was in effect.




> 2000-2004 Chevrolet Impala
> _New upper intake manifold and gasket kits have been released. These new kits will provide the dealer with the ability to get exactly what is necessary for a correct repair. In addition some of the gaskets have been updated to a more robust design. Please reference the part numbers when ordering from GMSPO._


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

GM would go bankrupt if they tried to fix all their problems. Oh wait.. If you go to the car forums, there is usually a list of common problems that manufacturers refuse to acknowledge even during warranty. The worst part is they keep dealers in the dark about these problems so they won't even know how to fix it effectively even if you paid. If it is a common problem, the forums may already have some kind of lawsuit started. Manufacturers have mastered the art of delaying legal battles just like all corporations and you lose by attrition of absurd legal fees. They all have their own team of lawyers who specialize in just this. It comes down to lawyer fees vs $1500 repair (try a good indy shop they can probably fix it for good for half the price)


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## Baccalieu (Nov 9, 2011)

> If it is a common problem, the forums may already have some kind of lawsuit started. Manufacturers have mastered the art of delaying legal battles just like all corporations and you lose by attrition of absurd legal fees.


Yes I am aware of what is being discussed on the auto forums and a class action lawsuit had been launched in Canada regarding the manifold problems with GMs up to 2003 model years.
As yet I dont know the status of that lawsuit, but will keep digging.

[QUOTE_]April 24, 2006: General Motors has been slapped with a class action lawsuit in Canada. The suit comes after this CTV Whistleblower report that revealed problems with a small engine part in millions of GM vehicles. The lawsuit alleges GM is at fault for the failure of intake manifold gaskets in several of its vehicles._ [/QUOTE]


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> GM would go bankrupt if they tried to fix all their problems. Oh wait.. If you go to the car forums, there is usually a list of common problems that manufacturers refuse to acknowledge even during warranty. *The worst part is they keep dealers in the dark about these problems so they won't even know how to fix it effectively even if you paid. *If it is a common problem, the forums may already have some kind of lawsuit started.
> 
> *Manufacturers have mastered the art of delaying legal battles just like all corporations and you lose by attrition of absurd legal fees. They all have their own team of lawyers who specialize in just this. It comes down to lawyer fees vs $1500 repair *(try a good indy shop they can probably fix it for good for half the price)


I am a member of the Dodge dakota forums and we discuss common failure
modes on the Dodge Dakota that I own. Mine is a 1998, and probably the
last dodge I will ever own..anyway....
As far as any manufacturer's goodwill or post warranty repair "breaks on 
repairs"..good luck with that!

I had to replace ALL the ball joints on my truck this year (13 years old), because I was afraid of the upper ball joints breaking off on the road,
front wheel falling off, and having a serious accident as a result..
injuring or killing myself, or even someone else unfortunate to be in 
my way when it happened.

It cost me over a $1200 for top of the line suspension parts installed. 
I bought the parts on line ($450) and had a local garage install them,
for $800 labour and a wheel alignment. The new ones (Moog) came
with grease fittings, so this won't ever be a problem as long as I
still own the truck. 

This is a known "defect" in those years of Dakotas, because they did not
install grease fittings to lubricate them at oil change intervals.

I blame Chrysler for that, but there is no way I could recover anything
from Chrysler for worn out parts, as those are considered wear and tear
items, like brakes. I only had a 3yr/60K warranty back thenand now the truck
is at 110K. 

Some manufacturers have recalls and only notify you as an original purchaser.
Others have secret recalls (or campaigns?) that only apply if you complain
to the manufacturer not the stealerships..which will gladly take your money
and do the repairs at your cost. I agree with the above statment in bold.
In most post warranty issues, unless you are prepared to fight a legal battle
with them, or sign up with a lemon class action suit, (mostly in the US),
you are probably out of luck. 

I would get the parts myself, and shop around for the best mechanics price
to install them and get on with my life.


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## Baccalieu (Nov 9, 2011)

The lawsuit against GM Canada has been settled and the deadline to submit a claim has passed, so it seems Im out of luck. The parts arent overly expensive, its the labour thats driving up the cost. There are two or three other shops in the area that I would trust with my car and I'll check them out for estimates.


http://www.kmlaw.ca/Settled_Completed_Cases/Overview/?rid=91


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

only $400? That was awfully generous of Generous Motors when they were
faced with a class action lawsuit.
I bet that the repairs had to be done in their stealerships to qualify for the
rebate too. Lets see at $100 an hour for labour, a few dollars for the intake
manifold gasket...and 7-8 hours labour..umm lets see..why it is $800+ hst
+ coolant, plus pressure testing on cooling system if required..
$900+ for labour and taxes alone 

You say you got an estimate for $1200?...I would still walk away and find an
indy garage.

here's the steps involved in changing a similar GM intake manifold gasket
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3591


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Wow I wonder how they got away with a deadline on a class action lawsuit! I don't know what I would do without car forums. You certainly can't rely on the dealers to look after you. I have mentioned well known problems and they act as if they're never heard of it lol


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## Baccalieu (Nov 9, 2011)

carverman said:


> only $400? That was awfully generous of Generous Motors when they were
> faced with a class action lawsuit.
> [/url]


Not only that but the amount of settlement may differ depending in which province a person resides. I cant remember how many provinces were involved in this lawsuit but BC, ON and QC for certain.

http://www.apa.ca/readarticle.asp?id=19


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Wow I wonder how they got away with a deadline on a class action lawsuit! *I don't know what I would do without car forums. You certainly can't rely on the dealers to look after you.* I have mentioned well known problems and they act as if they're never heard of it lol


Deakers are in business to line their own pockets and handsomely too. I'm
sure they have a secret arrangement with their respective manufacturer's on
warranty repairs, but after warranty they rub their hands with glee..because
you pay through the nose!

My '98 dakota was only at the dealers once on warranty and that was to
replace a rubber brake hose at the rear axle which would abraid rubbing against the rear axle/diff housing. They installed a 10c clip on the rubber
flexible brake line and said.."your good to go".
12 years later, I had complete brake failure on the rear (drum brakes)..not
only did the rear brake line rust out, but that same rubber hose they put
their 10c plastic clip on HAD IN FACT, ABRAIDED AGAINST THE REAR AXLE!

Had the mechanic who was doing the brake line replacement, not inspected
all the brake lines, I would have had yet another failure in the rear brake
line once the rubber flex hose rubbed in far enough to spring a hydraulic
leak.

Like I'm saying..the stealerships are in business to line their own pockets
and not look after your best interests as a vehicle owner.

The only other time I drove into a stealership was to find out what the
check engine light was about. I had just bought my own OBDII code reader
at the time. It was #1 injector misfiring, but I wasn't sure if it was the
injector or something else. They purged the fuel rail,reset the the PCM. Warned me that it might need a injector replacement.
Charged me $150. On the way home the check engine light came on and
same code. I order a Bosch injector from the dealer. It came in about 3 days
later, but by then the trouble code had cleared itself. So now I have a $120
injector that's a spare in my truck.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Baccalieu said:


> Not only that but the amount of settlement may differ depending in which province a person resides. I cant remember how many provinces were involved in this lawsuit but BC, ON and QC for certain.
> 
> http://www.apa.ca/readarticle.asp?id=19


What a bunch of BS! Generous Motors will only allow $100 in the 6th
year of vehicle ownership to Quebec class action litigants and only $50
for repairs in the 7th year? I guess by then they figure that those vehicles
are pretty much ready for the scrap heap. 
Obviously, for anyone still owning these, the stealerships will pounce on the owners... like lambs ready for a financial slaughter! 

Nylon intake manifold gaskets on a internal combustion engine that can
reach 140degrees C.???? What a "brilliant" piece of engineering on GM's part!

The melting point of nylon is: 428 °F (220 °C) melting point of nylon 6.

Many parts of the engine around the combustion area of the cylinders could
run higher than that, even if there are water jackets in the intake manifold
to cool the manifold and engine block. Most cars have a 195F thermostat
and with 15psi pressurization in the cooling system, the temperatures
can run easily 90-100degrees C.

This is obvious an automotive engineering joke played on innocent and
unsuspecting owners...
to perhaps generate handsome profits in repairing these vehicles at
their stealerships in later years.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Fixing cars is far more profitable than selling them


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Fixing cars is far more profitable than selling them


You can bank on that. I chuckle when I see dealers sucking in the unsuspecting public with their "EPA" rated fuel economy econo-boxes.
Little do they realize that for every 20cents they save on these "more
fuel efficient leaned out" engines, they are going to spend a lot more in repairs over the long run. 
Plastic parts, crappy gaskets, sensors, transmission and suspension problems, all add up once the warranty expires..and the manufacturers pretty much know how long the vehicle will last before things start to break down.

That $25k econo-box, it may last long enough to make the last payment
(biweekly for 7 years?) before things start to fall apart. These are designed to be disposible vehicles..otherwise GM/Ford/Chrysler and perhaps some
of the asian varieties, would go out of business..not to mention the dealers
and the gov't would lose out on the sales tax.

Repairs at $100 an hour + 13% tax add up very quickly on major repairs.
Dealers win, mechanics/technicians have a job and so do all the parts
suppliers.


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