# Buyers commission



## Allen Ginsing (Aug 30, 2017)

I sold my house FSBO, now there is a small balance of the commission to the buyers agent, the deposit has already been taken. I understand that if i don't pay it the buyer will have to pay it. Is it a big deal if i just ignore paying the balance?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm surprised the lawyer released the funds before paying outstanding balances.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

To me it's not clear if the funds have been released (i.e that closing has occurred). Buyer says they have the deposit at this point.
There must be a P&S agreement between buyer and seller. It would normally oblige the seller to pay the commission(s).
Assuming you have signed such a legal agreement, I would say yes, it is a big deal, and no you can't "just" ignore it.
The cheapness of some people amazes me.


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## Allen Ginsing (Aug 30, 2017)

Yes i have the funds. The way i see it is the buyer has yet to pay the agent for commission and if he doesn't get it from me he will just tack it onto the bill for the buyer. The buyer signed some agreement that if commission is not paid by the seller they would pay it. I don't see how they can collect from me i've moved out of province.

The other issue is that had the deal gone south, the deposit was in trust, i would have not likely gotten any of the deposit money, so i learned.
I know it sounds cheap but if the buyer is just going to pay the balance and then it is done so why should i bother? I will agree with you i don't know why the lawyer just didn't pay the commission, i thought that is how it goes when i signed off on it. Agents are pretty unscrupulous i am sure he would do the same.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Go by the agreement you signed with the selling agent. You don't owe the buyer's agent anything unless you agreed to it. In most cases the seller's agent splits the commission with the buyer's agent. In some cases buyers hire their own agents and pay them.

The lawyer is supposed to sort this out. Normally your lawyer would pay your agent as agreed and he would pay the other agent.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

If the purchase and sale agreement says that you are obligated to pay the buyer agent, which most standard ones do, then if you do not pay the agent the agent can sue you in small claims court, in the city and province where the sale took place, or go after the buyer for the money. At that point the buyer will then sue you for the money in small claims court, in the city and province where the sale took place.

That is the legal situation. The moral one is that you owe that agent money and therefore you should pay it or ask yourself how you would feel when some scumbag (which is what you will effectively be) burns you for what is morally and legally yours.

I will let you decide what to do. If everyone was concerned about ethics and morals then we would rarely need the legal system, so I will let you decide which one of the above motivates you to do the right thing. Each of us gets to make those decisions for ourselves.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If your lawyer missed this, it makes you wonder what else they missed...


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

He stated this was an FSBO, so there was no listing/sellers agent. If you had a discussion with the buyers agent, verbally or otherwise where you talked about commissions and agreed to it, then you have to pay it. If you did not have a discussion, and there is nothing in the purchase contract, then you don't have to pay. Usually there is something in the contract but if it's not spelled out what it would be in terms of % or dollar value, then I don't see how you can pay this.

It's not a scumbag move. Unless there was some agreement between the seller and the buyers agent (verbal or written), then there is no reason to pay. You don't know what kind of agreement the buyers have with their agent.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

This story sounds sketchy to me.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I had an offer on an agent listed property where the buyers agent put in a condition that he get extra commission over what had been negotiated with my selling agent. I countered the offer with a higher sale price than the offer to cover the extra commission and they agreed. Never sign an exclusive representation agreement because if you find a FSBO listing yourself, you will end up paying your buyer agent yourself. I'm not a big fan of these high real estate commissions that people are paying, realtors make a lot for a listing


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## tavogl (Oct 1, 2014)

Allen Ginsing said:


> I sold my house FSBO, now there is a small balance of the commission to the buyers agent, the deposit has already been taken. I understand that if i don't pay it the buyer will have to pay it. Is it a big deal if i just ignore paying the balance?


You should be ashamed of posting this in a public forum.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

nobleea said:


> It's not a scumbag move. Unless there was some agreement between the seller and the buyers agent (verbal or written), then there is no reason to pay. You don't know what kind of agreement the buyers have with their agent.


Huh? Why should you pay anything based on a verbal agreement? Do you think an agent would do something for you based on a verbal agreement if there was nothing in it for him? Ever dealt with a car salesman? These are professionals dealing with a large transaction, not friends to whom you owe some beer money. If it's not written into the contract then you have nothing to pay.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

off.by.10 said:


> Huh? Why should you pay anything based on a verbal agreement? Do you think an agent would do something for you based on a verbal agreement if there was nothing in it for him? Ever dealt with a car salesman? These are professionals dealing with a large transaction, not friends to whom you owe some beer money. If it's not written into the contract then you have nothing to pay.


Because they're legally enforceable in most jurisdictions, particularly if there was a witness or evidence of the agreement taking place (call logs, etc). Not generally in the case of real estate (though it's done all the time), but we are talking commissions, not RE.

It's pretty clear there's a huge range of opinions on this thread. Most of it stems from the fact that the OP has not given enough details about what was in the contract.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

nobleea said:


> It's pretty clear there's a huge range of opinions on this thread. Most of it stems from the fact that the OP has not given enough details about what was in the contract.


Agreed, we don't know what kind of agreement was reached. We don't even know that he was actually asked for the money yet.


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## Allen Ginsing (Aug 30, 2017)

What i am asking is if the standard buyers' representation agreement states that if commission is not paid for some reason from the seller then the buyer will pick up the tab?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

In short, yes. 
But I can't believe you and the buyer are making real estate transactions without having something as fundamental as the commission clearly agreed to.
Below is from perhaps a 'standard' buyer's representation agreement. See in particular, the very last sentence.
The question remains, how was the commission handled in the P&S agreement? You must know?

_2. COMMISSION: 
In consideration of the Brokerage undertaking to assist the Buyer, the Buyer agrees to pay commission to the Brokerage as follows: 
If, during the currency of this Agreement, the Buyer enters into an agreement to purchase or lease a real property of the general description indicated above, the Buyer agrees the Brokerage is entitled to receive and retain any commission offered by a listing brokerage or by the seller. 
The Buyer understands that the amount of commission offered by a listing brokerage or by the seller may be greater or less than the commission stated below. 
The Buyer understands that the Brokerage will inform the Buyer of the amount of commission to be paid to the Brokerage by the listing brokerage or the seller at the earliest practical opportunity. 
The Buyer acknowledges that the payment of any commission by the listing brokerage or the seller will not make the Brokerage either the agent or sub-agent of the listing brokerage or the seller.
If, during the currency of this Agreement, the Buyer enters into an agreement to purchase any property of the general description indicated above, the Buyer agrees that the Brokerage is entitled to be paid a commission of....% of the sale price of the property or ....... or for a lease, a commission of ......... 
The Buyer agrees to pay directly to the Brokerage any deficiency between this amount and the amount, if any, to be paid to the Brokerage by a listing brokerage or by the seller. 
*The Buyer understands that if the Brokerage is not to be paid any commission by a listing brokerage or by the seller, the Buyer will pay the Brokerage the full amount of commission indicated above*._

http://www.lstar.ca/sites/default/files/pdfs/PLForm_300.pdf


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## tavogl (Oct 1, 2014)

Mechanic said:


> I had an offer on an agent listed property where the buyers agent put in a condition that he get extra commission over what had been negotiated with my selling agent. I countered the offer with a higher sale price than the offer to cover the extra commission and they agreed. Never sign an exclusive representation agreement because if you find a FSBO listing yourself, you will end up paying your buyer agent yourself. I'm not a big fan of these high real estate commissions that people are paying, realtors make a lot for a listing


While I agree that realtors make a lot of money from each listing, that has nothing to do with the fact that the OP knows he owes this person money and he is looking to get out of it. Pay whatever amount of money you owe this person and get done with it, unless like others said we are missing something here and you are not telling the full story.


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## Allen Ginsing (Aug 30, 2017)

Sounds like that clause releases me from liability. Maybe the lawyer was just helping me. And why didn't the agent just suggest a higher deposit to cover his commission in the beginning?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

As a buyer I have never paid a commission to an agent, although they have often conducted the searches and negotiations for us.

There is a listing agent and a selling agent. If my agent sells me a house they get a split of commission from the listing agent.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Allen Ginsing said:


> Sounds like that clause releases me from liability. Maybe the lawyer was just helping me. And why didn't the agent just suggest a higher deposit to cover his commission in the beginning?


But that is a clause from an internet example that may or may not apply to your buyer's situation.
Frankly, since you have not provided any additional clarification of the terms of your transaction, I remain convinced that you don't really know WTF is going on.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Allen Ginsing said:


> Sounds like that clause releases me from liability. Maybe the lawyer was just helping me. And why didn't the agent just suggest a higher deposit to cover his commission in the beginning?


You seem to be under the impression that if there is a clause that states that IF you do not pay, the buyer will have to pay, that a clause like that somehow releases you from your legal responsibility to pay this obligation. It does not. That clause just gives the agent two parties to go after for the money that is owed to them.

Even if the buyer pays this amount I cannot imagine that they will not sue you for that amount plus any additional costs accrued. Small claims court is not expensive and with a contract like I believe you probably have, I doubt they would lose. Who the agent decides to sue would be interesting but if it was me I would direct the lawsuit at the person who ultimately is responsible, which would be you, and if I could I would probably sue you both and let the judge decide. The judge will put the cost on you since it sounds like it is your obligation.

Remember, lawsuits are conducted in the city where the dispute took place. You will be required to travel to the city where the home was sold or pretty much guarantee a full loss of the lawsuit. If you win, the plaintiff will cover your travel costs, but I doubt the odds are in your favour. I suspect you would be covering everyone else's costs., but who knows. I have not read your contract.

As for the down payment. The amount of the down payment deposit is not to ensure the agent collects what is owed to them, it is determined by the amount one thinks shows that the buyer is truly interested. I have often asked why they even bother with it, but that is another thread. So you can't blame the agent for not getting their commission out of that amount. They rarely ever do. They get their commissions from sellers meeting their obligations. If your contract states that you pay them, then you should. They did bring you a buyer, which is why you would have agreed to pay it in the first place. Yes, they bring you a lot of grief after that but it comes with the buyer, not the agent. It is just the agent informing you of the grief and of course advising their buyer when to insert more grief into your life. Anyway, you are paying for the buyer, not their service to you.


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

Has it been established that the OP owes the buyer's agent anything? Given that it's a FSBO, unless the OP agreed specifically to pay the buyer's agent, it would be the buyer's responsibility to pay the commission.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

cheech10 said:


> Has it been established that the OP owes the buyer's agent anything? Given that it's a FSBO, unless the OP agreed specifically to pay the buyer's agent, it would be the buyer's responsibility to pay the commission.


No it hasn't. But given that the seller has posted here multiple times and not clarified this, one could probably assume that he did agree to it on the purchase agreement.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

cheech10 said:


> Has it been established that the OP owes the buyer's agent anything? Given that it's a FSBO, unless the OP agreed specifically to pay the buyer's agent, it would be the buyer's responsibility to pay the commission.


I doubt the buyer's agent missed that point, but the OP has not confirmed it yet. Is sounds to me that the OP is simply reading that the buyer agent can go after the buyer if the seller does not pay and he really wants that to mean that he is now not obligated to make that payment...even though he probably agreed in writing to do so. 

I really cannot imagine that if the amount he owes is higher then $1000 that he does not find himself in court. The buyer did not assume he/she would be paying this amount when he/she made the offer to the seller, so to assume that they would be happy to pay for this service, is ridiculous. They would have reduced their offer had they known the seller was going to default on their obligation.

As I said before, if everyone did what they agreed to do in the first place we would not need the court system but this is precisely why it exists.


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## cheech10 (Dec 31, 2010)

Seems pretty simple then. Check the APS and see if there's a clause that seller agrees to pay buyer's agent. If there is, and seller doesn't pay, then he will be responsible for that amount. The agreement between the buyer and buyer's agent doesn't free him from that obligation. Seller can take his chances and not pay, I guess, but agree he will find himself in court pretty quickly in that situation.

If there's no such clause, then the buyer is responsible for paying their agent.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Some good points made on this thread and I agree it seems the seller is looking for a way out of paying what is probably owed. There is a statement (highlighted below) made I don't think anyone has commented on that has importance IMO. To my knowledge small claims courts rulings are not enforceable on people living in another Province. 



> Yes i have the funds. The way i see it is the buyer has yet to pay the agent for commission and if he doesn't get it from me he will just tack it onto the bill for the buyer. The buyer signed some agreement that if commission is not paid by the seller they would pay it.* I don't see how they can collect from me i've moved out of province.*
> 
> The other issue is that had the deal gone south, the deposit was in trust, i would have not likely gotten any of the deposit money, so i learned.
> I know it sounds cheap but if the buyer is just going to pay the balance and then it is done so why should i bother? I will agree with you i don't know why the lawyer just didn't pay the commission, i thought that is how it goes when i signed off on it. Agents are pretty unscrupulous i am sure he would do the same.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

RBull said:


> Some good points made on this thread and I agree it seems the seller is looking for a way out of paying what is probably owed. There is a statement (highlighted below) made I don't think anyone has commented on that has importance IMO. To my knowledge small claims courts rulings are not enforceable on people living in another Province.


In these days of high mobility, provincial legislatures have passed laws that make it relatively simple for the courts in one province to enforce the judgments of _all_ courts and most administrative tribunals given in another province. In B.C. the legislation is the Enforcement of Canadian Judgments and Decrees Act.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Mukhang pera said:


> In these days of high mobility, provincial legislatures have passed laws that make it relatively simple for the courts in one province to enforce the judgments of _all_ courts and most administrative tribunals given in another province. In B.C. the legislation is the Enforcement of Canadian Judgments and Decrees Act.


Thanks for that information. My statement came from personal experience quite a few years ago.


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## BK14 (Jul 24, 2017)

Your moral compass is pointed in the wrong direction.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

BK14 said:


> Your moral compass is pointed in the wrong direction.


And you must be a real-estate agent.

Personally I cannot make any conclusion about the OP's compass since I cannot read any of the contracts he signed. If it were me, I would have my sale-by-owner contract spell out the amount due to me, and the estate agent could pound sand.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

gardner said:


> Personally I cannot make any conclusion about the OP's compass since I cannot read any of the contracts he signed.


A refreshingly sensible comment. The OP has not come back to this thread lo these many days, yet the thread has taken on a life of its own. From the outset, there was little point in responding to the OP since we have not been provided with the contractual documents signed by said OP. For greater certainty, I would prefer to see what was signed by both parties to get a grip on what would have been the parties' legitimate expectations. Even then, there could be collateral contracts and oral warranties/representations that might have a bearing on who is liable to whom, for what.

All the same, perhaps it's been awhile since the OP has undertaken what most sailors make an annual event - swinging the compass. The OP might want to carry out that operation soon, perhaps to show that BK14 is wrong on that score.


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