# Future booked travel



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I’ve posted before about our upcoming large family vacation to the Caribbean. Sorry, the search tool is useless for me.

What do you think will happen with future booked travel? We’re using WestJet and air canada to leave and return. Seems WestJet is stopping international flights for 30 days.

Our trip is just outside that window. I for one, am inclined to rebook but that causes a bunch of issues. Seasonal price fluctuation, existing commitments etc. I think our group will split into 2 or 3 separate trips. I don’t want to be travelling for at least 6 months.

Expedia hasn’t been much help yet...they are advising not to contact them until 7 days before travel. We were able to reach the hotel independently, and they are offering to waive the charges to change and reschedule for 12 months, but we are subject to seasonal price movement. If we choose to go during peak season, they will want more money.

In any event.....two questions....

1. When do you think international airline travel will normalize? 

2. What do you think would happen if CANADA dropped its travel advisories and the airlines returned to their regular schedules on say April 15. would people booked to go on vacation April 16 be expected to go without protection from their travel insurance? Or do you think these large airlines will do everything possible to “make it right” for the consumer?


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Maybe just me, but I see scant prospect of regular schedules by April 15. I expect matters to be a lot worse by then. I already questioned on another thread, wherein lies the magic of April 15? I would like to believe otherwise. I have some international travel I would like to attend to. But then, I am a boomer, and COVID-19 may take the issue permanently out of my hands.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

Money172375 said:


> I’ve posted before about our upcoming large family vacation to the Caribbean. Sorry, the search tool is useless for me.
> 
> What do you think will happen with future booked travel? We’re using WestJet and air canada to leave and return. Seems WestJet is stopping international flights for 30 days.
> 
> ...


I think if you draw parallels with say China and Italy, we're in for a few months.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I have no idea how important this trip is but if it can be planned in a short notice, then stay tuned to events, but if not I would move it to 2021 for sure and even that would be slightly tentative.

Hey, stuff happens. Stay safe.


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> We’re using WestJet and air canada to leave and return. Seems WestJet is stopping international flights for 30 days.


In October I booked Ottawa to Orlando return flights using West Jet for March 21 arrival and April 04 departure. At that time I also bought $98.28 RBC Cancellation and Interruption Insurance. My 6:00am March 21 Ottawa to Orlando flight included a two hour stop over at the Toronto airport and the April 04 flight was the non-stop 9:25 pm Orlando to Ottawa flight. Had I done some research I would have realized Air Canada has a 7:18 am direct flight from Ottawa to Orlando.

As Covid-19 ramped up, I no longer felt safe having to switch planes at the Toronto airport. 

On March 04, I booked the March 21 Air Canada 7:18 am direct flight to Orlando plus I bought $55.00 RBC Cancellation and Interruption Insurance. 

On March 05, I called West Jet to inform them I needed to cancel the Ottawa to Orlando part of my March 21 ticket and wanted to keep the April 04 Orlando to Ottawa portion. Long story short, cancelling the Ottawa to Orlando flight meant my flight home was also null and void. To get home on April 04 using WestJet, I had to have the WestJet agent rebook the same flight home. I was charged the $100 CDN fee to change my booking and now I have $220.12 of West Jet bucks to use over the next 12 months. 

On March 11, I cancelled the Air Canada 7:18 am direct flight to Orlando for $396.89 worth of travel credits and invoked the “Ten Day Look and See” feature to get the $55.00 I paid for the RBC Cancellation and Interruption Insurance refunded back to my credit card. 

I will be BUT have yet to cancel that April 04 non-stop 9:25 pm West Jet Orlando to Ottawa flight. West Jet is saying they will not be flying Canadians out of the country. Instead they will still be flying Canadians home ... so cancelling for West Jet bucks at the $0 fee is not clear. The ticket cost $178 US and under normal circumstances the West Jet fee waiver is $100 CDN/US. 

I have no idea if the 98.28 RBC Cancellation and Interruption Insurance policy I bought on October 19, 2019 will still cover cancellations and interruptions during March 21 to April 04.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Looks like airlines are starting to ground their planes.....Porter not flying at all until June. I guess the decision has been made for me.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I can't believe anyone would even ask this question Money172375. I don't mean to be nasty or rude but you are so far out on the wishful thinking spectrum, you are hardly visible.

No one should be planning to travel anytime in the near or even medium future. This will go on for months at the least and perhaps even longer. You should have already realized you will NOT be travelling in April to anywhere. Nor should you even be thinking about 'rebooking'. 

My advice is to salvage what you can and forget any plan for this group trip. Get what refunds you can or a 'voucher' good for a year etc. Whatever the best you can get is, get it.

At the beginning of the whole virus situation I was saying this is why booking in advance has drawbacks. When things go wrong, you can be left holding the bag and out of pocket. Now you are seeing that. This is also why I never use any third party booking sites like Expedia, etc. You introduce a third party into any equation and it simply becomes one more player you have to try and deal with. It also often results in you being 'ping ponged'. That is, one party blames the other party and tells you it is their fault for whatever and that party in turn blames the one blaming them.

I am not expecting to do any travelling this year at all now. You asking when things might get back to normal is pointless at this point. It might be next year or even the year after if this virus runs through the summer rather than dying down with warmer weather. There is some hope it will die down but that doesn't mean it will disappear. It may flare up again in the fall and go through next winter. People still don't seem to realize the reality of what MIGHT happen. Trying to plan travel now for any point in the future is just futile. BOOKING future travel is just ridiculously stupid.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I wasn’t talking about booking future travel. I was looking for opinions or assistance for the tens of thousands who have booked travel already.
You don’t think the summer European vacations have been booked already? The summer weddings? I’m not stupid enough to want to travel in the short term. I’m looking for options. Not go to China next month. There must be tens of thousands of people who have dropped thousands on trips. You can’t just expect them to walk away without options. Flights to Europe/Asia could easily cost $10,000 for a family.....with no respect given to hotels.

There will be a day when the travel restrictions are lifted......I was just curious on how those trips that are booked for immediately after the lifting of travel restrictions will be handled.

How do you book your trips? Deal with the airlines and the hotel and the car rental separately? Could it not be argued that you are adding players vs. Dealing with one point of contact. Ie. the travel agent


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Money172375 said:


> I wasn’t talking about booking future travel. I was looking for opinions or assistance for the tens of thousands who have booked travel already.
> You don’t think the summer European vacations have been booked already? The summer weddings? I’m not stupid enough to want to travel in the short term. I’m looking for options. Not go to China next month. There must be tens of thousands of people who have dropped thousands on trips. You can’t just expect them to walk away without options. Flights to Europe/Asia could easily cost $10,000 for a family.....with no respect given to hotels.
> 
> There will be a day when the travel restrictions are lifted......I was just curious on how those trips that are booked for immediately after the lifting of travel restrictions will be handled.
> ...


OK Money172385, I will try to explain.

First, you were talking about your already booked trip in April. My advise for that is to cancel it and take your lumps. 

For those who have already booked summer trips, my advice is at present to do nothing. It is simply too soon to know what to do. But my advice when the times comes will be the same if nothing has changed re the virus and the wisdom of travelling. It may be that they will be able to cancel without penalty, I don't know. It may be that they can only get a voucher. It may be they just have to take their lumps. 

Try to understand that a contract has conditions. Any of those thousands of people you are saying have already booked, could have chosen to book CANCELLABLE tickets. But you are really talking about people who cannot cancel or change a ticket without incurring a penalty. In some cases, yes, as much as 10s of thousands of dollars. But THEY made that choice and have to live with that choice. They don't get to cry, 'but if I had only known Covid-19 was coming, I wouldn't have done that.'

So yes, I CAN expect them to walk away if that ends up being their only option. It was the AGREEMENT they made at the time they booked.

How do I book trips you ask. Well, I don't book months ahead to start with, I usually don't book more than 4-6 weeks ahead and sometimes only a few days ahead. Now you are probably thinking that it must cost me more. Sometimes it does and sometimes believe it or not, it is cheaper than someone who booked 3,6,9 months ahead. There is no rule on that you know. By not booking far ahead, I provide myself with more flexibility to change my plans. Those booking far ahead give up that flexibility usually because they BELIEVE they will save money. But that is simply not always the case. 

I never book non-refundable/cancellable anything. Last year I phoned a hotel in Switzerland to make a booking. They quoted me a price per night and said it required a 30 day cancellation or they would charge me the full amount. I simply said, 'no, I won't accept that cancellation clause. I expect to be able to cancel right up until the day before my intended arrival. You can either waive that clause or refuse my booking, your choice.' They waved the cancellation clause. But if you booked with Expedia or any other third party online travel agent, you would not have been able to do that.

I never pay a hotel in advance, I only provide a credit card number to guarantee the reservation and if I 'no show' they can charge ONE night to my card. That's the agreement I have with any hotel I book into.

I have to pay the airlines up front but always book a far with full refund minus a small 'administration fee' clause. I always book directly with the airline. 

Car rentals are the same as hotels. Book direct, 24 hour maximum cancellation clause and 1 day's rental charged for a no show.

You cannot argue that I am adding players. The hotel, the airline, the car rental ARE players, whether you or a travel agent does the booking. The travel agent is the 'adding' that gets done if you use one. When things go awry, you always end up having to try and deal with each of them yourself. The travel agent never says, 'just sit back and I will take care of all this for you.' 

Besides which, I have far more confidence in my own ability to negotiate with a vendor than I do in the ability of some agent of dubious ability and most definitely far less concern for my welfare and pocket than I have.

It all comes down to what you prioritize Money172375. Today, most people prioritize MONEY over every other factor. We do not. We prioritize OUR comfort and convenience and if necessary are willing to pay a bit more to get that. We won't fly Economy anymore for example. Too high a price in lost comfort. If it costs us an extra $1000 to upgrade our seats, then we will pay it. I realize not everyone can afford to travel the way they would really like to but if you can, then money should not be the biggest factor.

But I also know there are people who could afford to pay more but still put money first. It's like a Pavlovian Response. Our society today is CONDITIONED to always look for the cheapest price. They don't realize the difference between 'cheap' and 'frugal'. Frugal means you do not spend MORE than you HAVE to, to get what you WANT. If you want comfort in an airplane seat, you have to spend what you have to spend to get that. You can't compare it to an economy seat and say 'they're equal and one costs less than the other.' They are not equal. Cheap is not always the best VALUE for your money.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> OK Money172385, I will try to explain.
> 
> First, you were talking about your already booked trip in April. My advise for that is to cancel it and take your lumps.
> 
> ...


Thanks. What would you charge to arrange my next trip?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Money172375 said:


> Thanks. What would you charge to arrange my next trip?


The idea is to try to learn how to book your own trips Money172375 and be able to do a better job than any agent can.

Have you ever considered how people put their hard earned 10s of thousands of dollars of vacation money in the hands of some 20 year old kid who has only been in the job for 3 months and has never travelled outside their home country or even their home town. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

Here's a simple example of how your typical tourist actually waste their money on travel. When I lived in a popular tourist destination, every week, twice in the week during the tourist season, plane loads would arrive. They would be bused to their hotels and the next morning their local 'Tour Representative' would hold a 'Welcome Meeting' in a central restaurant or bar. The ostensible reason for this meeting was to impart some local knowledge to them. The real reason was to sell them day trips of various kinds. All of which the tour companies got a commission on.

So they would tell them 'don't drink the water, use bottled water.' Local knowlege right, good to know. Except that all the tap water on the island is from artesian springs and is about as pure as you could get anywhere. False information in other words. The real reason they said to drink bottled water was to limit the tour company's liability from a claim that someone got sick from drinking the water when in fact they got sick from being drunk but couldn't claim for that.

What about who was imparting all this local knowledge and telling them 'this is a good day trip to sign up for.' Well if was quite possibly someone who had arrived on the island only a week before the tourists did. Even in the middle or late in the season that could be the case because that job in that industry is notorious for a very high turnover. The vast majority of them know next to nothing about the place. But hey, 'this is a good day trip to take, you'll really enjoy it.'

People get taken in by these kinds of things when they travel, all the time. Why, because they want someone else to do all the legwork for them rather than do their own research and find out about the place they are going to visit. I've told the story before of tourists who when asked to point to where they were on a map of just Europe, could not point to the island they were on which was clearly marked on the map.

Did you know that less than 50% of Americans could place New York state or Ohio on a map of the USA in a National Geographic poll in 2006. I have no reason to think Canadians would fare any better on such a poll. These are the people someone is depending on to plan their $10k vacation.


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

nortel'd said:


> In October I booked Ottawa to Orlando return flights using West Jet for March 21 arrival and April 04 departure. At that time I also bought $98.28 RBC Cancellation and Interruption Insurance. My 6:00am March 21 Ottawa to Orlando flight included a two hour stop over at the Toronto airport and the April 04 flight was the non-stop 9:25 pm Orlando to Ottawa flight. Had I done some research I would have realized Air Canada has a 7:18 am direct flight from Ottawa to Orlando.
> 
> As Covid-19 ramped up, I no longer felt safe having to switch planes at the Toronto airport.
> 
> ...


The US/Canada Border closed to Canadian shoppers and tourists March 20, 2020 at 11:59pm 
Just thought I would check the March 21, 2020 flight status of the WestJet Ottawa to Orlando flights I booked back in October 2019 and the Air Canada Ottawa to Orlando flight I booked on March 04.
Interesting ....The 6:00am WS353 Ottawa to Toronto flight left on time 
BUT the 9:55am WS1228 Toronto to Orlando has been cancelled.
Hummmm ....If had not rushed the gun, I would have been stopped by US Customs at the Toronto Airport and my Orlando vacation would have ended there. 

The March 21 Air Canada AC1838 7:18 am direct flight Ottawa to Orlando is in the air on its way to Orlando. ????????. Maybe it only has Americans on board.

I have yet to cancel my April 04 non-stop 9:25 pm WS1279 Orlando to Ottawa flight and to add misery to my anxiety, I have no idea if the 98.28 RBC Cancellation and Interruption Insurance policy I bought on October 19, 2019 will still cover cancellations and interruptions during the March 21 to April 04, 2020 period.:05.18-flustered::05.18-flustered::05.18-flustered:


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

One more big issue I have found that is seriously getting in the way of social distancing and consequently saving lives is *people's refusal to endure any reduction in their lifestyle**, from the way they use to live,* for even a short period of time. I suppose this comes down to the definition of short period of time. In my mind, right now, short period of time, means the rest of this year. All of it. Not till April or May, because that right now certainly looks like dreamland to me.

If it works out that this bug is gone by May. Wonderful. But right now there is absolutely no evidence at all of that happening. My dream of 2021 looking better has a lot of wishful thinking in it as well, but with that dream, I have plenty of time to adjust it, and of course, I will.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Good site to track flights live.

https://www.flightradar24.com/AHY4101/243e1ff7

Most flights in Canada appear to be domestic, but one left Calgary this morning for San Jose, and there are incoming flights to Toronto from Dublin, Dubai, and Las Vegas.

Interesting that some flights have the airports they flew out listed but the destination is listed as NA.

I am thinking the flights are moving people back home.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Travel by tourists across our border with the USA has been halted but not ALL travel is halted. So there will still be some flights for 'essential travel'. Cars will still be able to cross the land border for the same reason. The border agents have the authority to decide what is and what is not 'essential travel'.

Flights are coming in full and going out empty to places where Canadians are still trying to get home. There is a flight that went to Morocco yesterday for example to bring people back home. Air Canada is flying it but it is NOT a government repatriation flight, it is a commercial flight put on by AC at the request of the government and for which the passengers are being told they must pay the airfare themselves.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-police-arrest-covid-19-1.5505349


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

sags said:


> Good site to track flights live.
> 
> https://www.flightradar24.com/AHY4101/243e1ff7
> 
> ...


March breakers on their way home. Lots of flights from Florida to Buffalo and Niagara Falls, NY

https://www.buffaloairport.com/flight-info/flight-arrivals

https://www.niagarafallsairport.com/passenger-information/flight-arrivals


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We travel frequently. Just came back from a 7 plus week trip. We seldom book far in advance. We find that the lowest price is certainly not always direct. There is a huge 'it depends' on this. Depends on the vendor, the supplier, the country.

On this last trip we booked air on expedia.ca at a considerably lower price than the airline (Interjet) website. So much lower that I thought there was something amiss. $159 CAD for two of us vs. $289. Cad for the same flight, same options, at the same time. We had both websites up at the same time.

We booked two late booking 5 days AI's through TUI travel in the UK. We have used their site in the past. They buy in bulk and sell packages. Unsold days, minimum of 3, are sold off at reduced reduced rates. Anywhere from 20 percent less to 45 percent less (that we experienced this past fall in Cyprus). The one proviso is we have to pay up front, no refund. But since we are booking last minute, could be 5 days or 2 weeks out, there is little risk for us.

We always prefer not to get locked in on anything. But we do consider it IF the lead time is right and the savings are at least 20 percent. They are often as much as 33 percent.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I have two European trips booked, one for August and one for October. Right now I am not canceling anything, but I think there is a fair chance that one or both will ultimately not take place. 

In the best case scenario, the virus dies down over the summer and we can resume normal travel. The problem is, many travel providers, particularly airlines, will have run out of capital by that time and may no longer be operating. Unless, of course, they are given government bailouts in exchange for nationalization. 

In the worst case scenario, the virus remains active and gradually infects most of us in waves after the restrictions are lifted. There may well be public health advisories affecting old farts like me. 

It would be wonderful, but unlikely, to have a vaccine available before my trips.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

My view is highly likely those trips are at best 50-50. No chance of a mass vaccination program in 2020. Coronaviruses are highly elusive.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Bull markets are associated with inclusion bear markets exclusion. If this is a grand super cycle top we are in for major exclusion. The last correction of super cycle degree was from 1720 - 1784 in British stocks. If we are in a grand super cycle bear going forward for years will be hard down for inclusion regardless of weather or not the Corona virus is settled or not. The cycle going into the top produced historic inclusion with boarders being opened up to migrants & offering them social programs. Even the inclusion of the planet went to the extreme i.e., trying to control climate. If we started a grand super cycle bear market there will be less travel, tighter boarders & less we


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> I have two European trips booked, one for August and one for October. Right now I am not canceling anything, but I think there is a fair chance that one or both will ultimately not take place.
> 
> In the best case scenario, the virus dies down over the summer and we can resume normal travel. The problem is, many travel providers, particularly airlines, will have run out of capital by that time and may no longer be operating. Unless, of course, they are given government bailouts in exchange for nationalization.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't count on those trips at all heyjude but I gather you aren't doing so. The only thing I would say in regards to them is that you may want to reflect on the wisdom of booking so far ahead and presumably having paid for them already. 

When all this started happening, our government was too slow in changing their official travel advisory to 'avoid all unnecessary travel.' As a result, a great many people found themselves in a position of wanting to cancel but facing losing their money if they did so. If our government LIFTS the current travel advisory too soon, you may find yourself in that same position. You may not want to travel if you see it as still too risky but be unable to get a refund because the travel advisory against 'unnecessary travel' has been lifted.

If I were in your position, I think I might consider asking the airline if I can cancel and get a refund right now while the current advisory IS in place. Of course that assumes you bought seats that can be cancelled for a refund to begin with. Now is also when people discover why 'Basic' fares which cannot be changed or refunded at all are not such a good idea.

As for a vaccine, yeah, forget that happening soon enough to help you with your decision.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Do you think the refund/credit details for a flight/package cancelled by the airline will be treated differently that a flight/package cancelled by the customer? I’m wondering if the flight is cancelled by the airline will result in a refund, while one cancelled by the customer will result in a travel credit?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Do you think the refund/credit details for a flight/package cancelled by the airline will be treated differently that a flight/package cancelled by the customer? I’m wondering if the flight is cancelled by the airline will result in a refund, while one cancelled by the customer will result in a travel credit?


Assuming the travel advisory is still in place (probably pretty safe assumption!) then I would not think there would be a difference.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

You also need to factor in the solvency risk of the entities that you are contracting with. Bankrupt companies rarely issue refunds.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

IF the airline or the tour company cancels a flight or a vacation would there be a recourse for someone to challenge the credit card charge (if the purchase was made on a credit card) on the basis that the contract/product was never delivered by the vendor? Assuming of course that the buy is within the card issuers time frame for disputing a charge.

My perspective is that a refund is always better than a future credit.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I don't think it is wise to ASSUME anything going forward. Decisions always have to be made in the NOW and under the conditions that prevail at that point in time. Anyone who has future travel booked NOW can determine what will happen if they cancel now. Down the road, who knows.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

The saga to get my refund/credit is still ongoing.

so far, we’ve received a refund directly from our hotel for the one day extra we had to book with them due to an air canada flight change.
We’ve Been approved by Expedia for a refund for the bulk (remainder) of the hotel costs. Haven’t seen the money yet...Expedia advising it could take 30 days.

Westjet has offered us 2 year travel credit on our departure flight. Haven’t see it yet in our WestJet account. They are advising it could take 45 days.

Our return flight is on Air CANADA (early May). we have a connecting portion through Montreal, onto Toronto. 
funny enough, we got an email this morning saying that the flight time changed for the montreal-toronto leg. No mention of the of the Turks-Montreal portion. I wonder once they cancel the Turks-Montreal portion and hopefully offer us a 2 year credit......will AC still want us to take the Montreal-Toronto leg And not offer a credit? Lol.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We had a return flight booked on Westjet for April 25th and Westjet suspended flights for one month starting March 22 so we left it. Since then it has been reconfirmed for April 29th and now May 6th. With this flight, they have suspended seat selection so they can maintain the 2m between unrelated parties. We shall,see...

Meanwhile we are self-isolating in our new condo. We are ordering in both meals and groceries.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> We had a return flight booked on Westjet for April 25th and Westjet suspended flights for one month starting March 22 so we left it. Since then it has been reconfirmed for April 29th and now May 6th. With this flight, they have suspended seat selection so they can maintain the 2m between unrelated parties. We shall,see...
> 
> Meanwhile we are self-isolating in our new condo. We are ordering in both meals and groceries.


A flight from where to where? I would also not count on them maintaining the 2m distance on a plane. That is simply not possible. Everyone going up an aisle will pass closer than that. Even when all seated do you realize how many empty rows would have to be between you and anyone behind or to the side of you?

Get a tape measure and see how long 2m actually is. You can drive a normal full size car through a 2 metre space. If someone was seated at the window on each side of the average plane, you could seat one person in the middle of the plane and perhaps have 2m between the 3 people. You probably couldn't get anyone less than 3 rows behind or in front of them and have 2m spacing. In other words, the plane would have to be pretty empty indeed.

At this point in time, planning to get on a plane this year is probably not a good idea at all.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Cuba has sealed off their island from all international air and marine traffic.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

LTA.....no sense worrying about the 2 meter rule anymore. Scientists are saying the virus is expelled by talking and breathing and can fill an entire room.

We need protective masks for everyone, not paper, linen, scarves and such. N95 masks (or something even better) are what is needed.

As I said before the virus is sticky. That is how it adheres to the lung tissue. The N95 has special fibers the virus sticks to and cannot escape from.

Companies need direction from the government to build better masks. Companies need the assurance.....you make them and we will buy them all.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

As part of my "we shall see" scepticism, is the fact that the plane will be lightly loaded.

Both the airport and the plane will be sparce when compared to the panic return flight in March. I have COPD so I am managing my risk much more tightly than the government recommends.

Plus it is 81 degrees with humidity in the 60s whereas Vancouver is experiencing February weather...


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> LTA.....no sense worrying about the 2 meter rule anymore. Scientists are saying the virus is expelled by talking and breathing and can fill an entire room.
> 
> We need protective masks for everyone, not paper, linen, scarves and such. N95 masks (or something even better) are what is needed.
> 
> ...


First this is as future travel thread, so you are straying well off topic. Second, it's easy to say everyone should be wearing N95 masks but we live in the real world. In the real world, there will never be enough N95 masks for everyone to wear. Whether they are needed or not is therefore irrelevant.

You are doing what a lot of people are doing right now and that is repeating a statement of an apparent problem for which there is NO solution available. What is the point of that? It is of no help whatsoever.

So, what is the solution to the problem of not enough masks? The BEST AVAILABLE solution is actually pretty simple sags. STAY at home and have the masks that are available and will be available, provided ONLY to front line workers.

We have been self-isolating for 3 weeks now. By self-isolating I mean we have not gone out of the house and been anywhere near anyone at a distance of even greater than 2 metres. We have had ZERO risk of exposure to any other human being. The only risk we have incurred is from a grocery delivery and we disinfected all packages before putting them away as well as washing our hands thoroughly after handling them. We have NO need of masks sags if we maintain that practice. 

Keeping on saying 'we need more masks', whoever says it, is pointless. What matters is what CAN we do, not what can't we do.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> As part of my "we shall see" scepticism, is the fact that the plane will be lightly loaded.
> 
> Both the airport and the plane will be sparce when compared to the panic return flight in March. I have COPD so I am managing my risk much more tightly than the government recommends.
> 
> Plus it is 81 degrees with humidity in the 60s whereas Vancouver is experiencing February weather...


If I were you kcowan, I would be planning to stay right where you are if possible. The reality is that you cannot get home without incurring MORE risk than you seem to currently be facing.

I have chronic bronchitis and am 74, high risk. We have been self-isolating for 3 weeks now and having groceries delivered. Our risk is pretty much Zero as I just wrote. If you got home, you would probably be doing the same so what's the advantage of risking getting home if you would be doing what you are already doing anyway. Hunker down and wait it out.

The only reason I can see for someone in another country to try and get home right now is if they had a financial problem with being able to stay where they are.


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