# I'm having second thoughts about working in US



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

There's a lot I love about the USA, but as I watch the growing insanity leading up the election, I'm having second thoughts about continuing to live and work here. The following quote from an election fairness advocate in this CBC Day 6 episode echoes my sentiments well:



> We are all concerned about the climate. There's more concern about _after_ the election, because the rhetoric of Trump and his movement *will not end with election results*. This has awakened a very ugly part of our country. We're more concerned about this anti-semitic, anti-muslim, anti-african-america, *anti-anything-other-than-white-male* movement that has happened.


I'm concerned about the same thing. It's really ugly and frankly, it's turning me off from being here. And I am a white male.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

I feel the same way. I worked in the US for three years in the 1980s, and loved it. But I was surrounded by principled liberals. In recent years I have even seen some of my relatives becoming more populist. This election is exposing a very nasty side of the US. If Trump wins, I will not be visiting the US for the duration of his term. And whatever happens, I am likely to be more cautious about travelling there. I am a white female, and very glad to be on the Canadian side of the border.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Trump won't win and we shouldn't be too smug about Canada. All the same problems here; there is actually more antisemitism than in the US.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think this is overreaction. I would wait and see how things settle after the election before making any hasty decisions.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Braindead Sheep: Trump is currently leading with white women-it is not just white men that are devils or the problem, it is now white women also.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Nelley said:


> Braindead Sheep: Trump is currently leading with white women-it is not just white men that are devils or the problem, it is now white women also.


Who are you calling Braindead Sheep?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^ It's like...

A: blah-blah-blah.
B: blah-blah-blah.
Braindead Sheep: Trump is awesome, 2 legs bad, blah-blah.


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

As you see America is conflicted and divided.
Divide & conquer method makes weaken the country.
America, middle east, Ukraine, Europe, most of the countries are affecting from this.

The citizen needs step back & see themselves in a big pictures.
If we keep follow the current system that's lead destabilized the country & end up crash it.


- Divide and Conquer 101: America Being Destabilized From Within:
http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/divide-conquer-101-america-destabilized-within/

It is equally important for people to realize that those at the top are intentionally dividing us and turning us against each other. 
This is where we must wake up because we cannot tackle the true problems without being united.
This includes the minority communities uniting with the police, Sanders supporters uniting with Trump supporters, and all people of righteousness coming together. 
They are only going to*increase the chaos, so the time to act is now.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

heyjude said:


> I feel the same way. I worked in the US for three years in the 1980s, and loved it. But I was surrounded by principled liberals. In recent years I have even seen some of my relatives becoming more populist. This election is exposing a very nasty side of the US. If Trump wins, I will not be visiting the US for the duration of his term. And whatever happens, I am likely to be more cautious about travelling there. I am a white female, and very glad to be on the Canadian side of the border.


 Best bet would be to visit political correct Europe embrace multiculturalism Sharia law is wanted by most of the immigrants taking over Europe anyone who is against is labeled racist. Thanks to Merkel Europe is a mess with the radical religion that is taking over Europe. The cycle of globalization is starting to swing to protect boarders. The cycle has swung to far towards globalization. Civil war in Europe is going to be the immigrants with their Sharia law against the citizens of Europe. Hillary & her foundation which receives money from countries that support Isis wants the US to open up its boarders. You want a rape to rise support Hillary with her open boarders & no fly zone which could lead to world war 3


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

I am surprised to see this thread. I have been working in Southern California for over two years and returning back to Ontario this month. Tt is purely because of family reasons. I find no issue living here that I won't face in Canada. In fact, between job opportunities, excellent salary and amazing weather this is a dream place. Most of the time we interact with like minded friends anyways. And whatever ails the society in US today did not become worse in last 12 months. So, to not visit US depending on who gets elected seems over the top reaction. Also, It is not as if US president can change much in terms of institutions. We will find out soon enough. Now, if you were making similar comments about Turkey, I would go along.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Certain posters have said that my decision to avoid the US if Trump is elected is an "overreaction". Objectively, my chances of being murdered there are probably still low. However, in a Trumpian state, misogyny will thrive. Why would I want to subject myself to feeling threatened? I will go where I feel comfortable, because it is my choice. YMMV.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

With Trump you really do have to wait and see what he will do because no one really knows. Hillary like lonewolf says is extremely dangerous and will make America a incredibly dangerous place to live. On the economy it could go down in flames no matter who takes over.

On the inner cities and the deep south i believe they have always been dangerous and the racism has always been dangerous in the US no matter who was in power.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

heyjude said:


> Certain posters have said that my decision to avoid the US if Trump is elected is an "overreaction". Objectively, my chances of being murdered there are probably still low. However, in a Trumpian state, misogyny will thrive. Why would I want to subject myself to feeling threatened? I will go where I feel comfortable, because it is my choice. YMMV.


Trump is unpopular in almost half the country-if you feel threatened you could relocate to one of these areas-LA, most of California, Chicago, Philly, etc.-lots of areas-life is too short to walk around feeling threatened.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Nelley said:


> Trump is unpopular in almost half the country-if you feel threatened you could relocate to one of these areas-LA, most of California, Chicago, Philly, etc.-lots of areas-life is too short to walk around feeling threatened.


I live in Canada. I have no plans to move to the US.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

heyjude said:


> I live in Canada. I have no plans to move to the US.


Good for you-it is way too dangerous for you.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

new dog said:


> Hillary like lonewolf says is extremely dangerous and will make America a incredibly dangerous place to live.



dog sometimes you are as crazy/funny as nellie


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Nelley said:


> Trump is unpopular in almost half the country-if you feel threatened you could relocate to one of these areas-LA, most of California, Chicago, Philly, etc.



iirc did you not say nellie that you yourself are from california


.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The mood has to be ripe war.

Syria government does not want the US flying over its country helping those in its country trying to over throw its government. Syria government wants help from Russia by Russia flying over Syria.

Who the heck does Hillary think she is only wanting the US to fly over Syria imagine if Russia said they were going to put a no fly zone over the US ?

When 52 migrates went to a Russia bar & groped & molested their women the Russian men took them out back & laid a beating on them. When police were called they laid a beating on the migrants. No charges were laid against the Russian men for standing up for their women Charges were laid against the immigrants. 

Russia has the guts to do the right thing stand up for it self. The rest of the world should do the same.

Hillary is the bully who could be backed with a lot of power very dangerous


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

On the bright side, Nelley is going to be gone in about a week.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lonewolf :) said:


> The mood has to be ripe war.
> 
> Syria government does not want the US flying over its country helping those in its country trying to over throw its government. Syria government wants help from Russia by Russia flying over Syria.




wolf you probably should ignore my post here. I'm not really replying to you since evidently you've morphed into yet another roboRussia propaganda machine. I'm just posting to the thread in general, as best i can.

there's a civil war raging in syria. Or rather what's left of syria. No one knows what proportion of surviving syrians the Assad government represents, but the numbers are thought to be extremely small. Russia muscled itself in at the last moment for the sole reason that russia is seeking as many strongholds as possible close to its southern, eastern & western borders.

wolf what part of the word *zone* do you not understand? Clinton asked for a small no-fly *zone* where civilians who are presently trapped in cities like aleppo & deir el zour could escape certain death from russian bombs. That is all she seeks, a *zone.* 

clinton did not speak of ranging US aircraft across the entire syrian state, although if the west moves to recapture Raqqa from ISIL the western coalition will undoubtedly require air support.


btw what on earth does your russian story about thugs beating up migrants have to do with trying to save the lives of trapped syrian civilians who are being bombed to death, in violation of every UN rule for the conduct of war?

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

andrewf said:


> On the bright side, Nelley is going to be gone in about a week.



do you think she's moving back to california ...


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

capricorn said:


> Now, if you were making similar comments about Turkey, I would go along.


Too bad. Istanbul is an amazing city to visit, as are Capadoccia and Effasis. Maybe you have caught SoCalitius?

But I agree that the impending Hillary win will create 4 years of no improvement. So there will be 20 years of bad government to recover from. (And TNN may supplant Fox for the GOP. But OWN proved that it takes more than one person to create a network!)


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> do you think she's moving back to california ...


More likely thrown into the back of the sock drawer and forgotten.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

kcowan said:


> Too bad. Istanbul is an amazing city to visit, as are Capadoccia and Effasis. Maybe you have caught SoCalitius?
> 
> But I agree that the impending Hillary win will create 4 years of no improvement. So there will be 20 years of bad government to recover from. (And TNN may supplant Fox for the GOP. But OWN proved that it takes more than one person to create a network!)


What difference does it make what Ephesus looks like if teachers and judges are being fired en mass and Kurds are being imprisoned or murdered by the Turkish autocratic Islamist government?


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

james4beach said:


> There's a lot I love about the USA, but as I watch the growing insanity leading up the election, I'm having second thoughts about continuing to live and work here. The following quote from an election fairness advocate in this CBC Day 6 episode echoes my sentiments well:
> 
> I'm concerned about the same thing. It's really ugly and frankly, it's turning me off from being here. And I am a white male.


Are you seeing the ugliness first hand, or just reading about it?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kcowan said:


> I agree that the impending Hillary win will create 4 years of no improvement. So there will be 20 years of bad government to recover from.



the old saw says every cloud has a silver lining. 

i look at things this way: the world has heard loud & clear that a small *c* conservative, more libertarian, populist movement is here to stay. The US of A, bernie sanders, donald trump, Brexit voters. In a way, even the arab springs.

it didn't work this time in the US. Not enough lead time for anything serious to develop. Ineffectual leaders. The worst kind of leaders. Talking some of the jargon but still mired way back in the 20th century. One so dumb/dumb that he even boasted to working-class voters how he'd successfully used a tax strategy to avoid paying millions of $$ in personal income taxes for 20 years & he'd apply the same smarts to running the US government.

the way i see it, america will get a caretaker government for the next 4 years. Both the democrats & the GOP can use the time to re-engineer themselves from the ground up. The real contest won't come until 2020.

meanwhile we'll have a ringside seat to see how theresa mays works things out for a downsized, independent, small *c* england. Maybe even an independent scotland.

the way i see it, to prepare for all of the above change & do it good, we absolutely require 4 more years of a familiar caretaker government.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

olivaw said:


> Are you seeing the ugliness first hand, or just reading about it?


I haven't seen it first hand. I'm on the west coast in one of the most liberal places you'll find.

Let's see how the election plays out. Hopefully things simmer down after the election.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I hope things settle down in the U.S. The last year has been quite the show, not in a good way.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

US urgently needs a new party. The free market wing of the old Republican Party that does not care much for guns, gays, Mexicans and abortion banning should join those democrats who are not in the pocket of trade unions and the anti trade, anti business hard left.

Surely there would be support for a free market, pro capitalist, socially liberal party. That's what made America great in the first place.


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

kcowan said:


> Too bad. Istanbul is an amazing city to visit, as are Capadoccia and Effasis. Maybe you have caught SoCalitius?


Turkey indeed is amazing place to visit.
I only gave that as a reference for where an elected leader could actually damage long standing institutions (unlike in USA.).


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

One of the things I worry about for America's sake is destabilization of society. The US (by which I mean the average person) has had it quite rough financially versus Canada and I think that's at the core of much of what we're seeing now.

The gap between rich and poor is more extreme than in Canada. Add to that the decline in home prices (a huge impact!) and the fact that employment never really bounced back after the financial crisis. Yes there are some areas... banking & technology... where employment and salaries are higher than ever before. But overall, the employment situation in the US is pitifully bad.

Anyway, I worry about their country becoming more unstable. This is also bad news for neighbours.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

*Chris Selley: Picture of decline ripe for a populist (National Post)*


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> One of the things I worry about for America's sake is destabilization of society. The US (by which I mean the average person) has had it quite rough financially versus Canada and I think that's at the core of much of what we're seeing now.
> 
> The gap between rich and poor is more extreme than in Canada. Add to that the decline in home prices (a huge impact!) and the fact that employment never really bounced back after the financial crisis. Yes there are some areas... banking & technology... where employment and salaries are higher than ever before. But overall, the employment situation in the US is pitifully bad.
> 
> Anyway, I worry about their country becoming more unstable. This is also bad news for neighbours.


True. The people who are doing REALLY well are no longer in the financial industry. It's the silicone valley. And the people who are struggling big time are the blue colour workers. US is going through the same process as UK went through in the 1980s. They need to liberalize the economy and find alternative employment in the service industry for the coal industry and conveyer belt workers. They have instead been moving in the European direction and we all know how great that's working out.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

olivaw said:


> *Chris Selley: Picture of decline ripe for a populist (National Post)*




olivaw this article was an important read to me because it's written from the ground up & it reflects what i've been thinking re both US presidential candidates - that in grandiosely promising to bring home those lost rust belt jobs, both clinton & trump are looking back to the 1980s. 

as in brunswick, georgia, there aren't going to be jobs. Almost by some accident, this article has a few insightful comments - vermont is going the same direction as small-town georgia says one - plus refreshingly there are no angry bitter comments.

what is north america to do next? one commentator to this article says that a minority of smart young people will graduate university & obtain jobs, all the others are going to become "wards of the state."

people have said we need to plan for the jobless society. All over the internet i see artisan workers - mostly self-employed women - weavers, knitters, woodworkers, cooks, caterers, farmers, bicycle repairers - succeeding barely at earning a living. The truth is many are married to spouses with DB pensions. 


.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

capricorn said:


> Turkey indeed is amazing place to visit.
> I only gave that as a reference for where an elected leader could actually damage long standing institutions (unlike in USA.).


OK. I think there has been damage to long-standing institutions in the US. The VA, for all the good that it is doing, has treated soldiers pretty badly, especially those with PTSD. Confidence in Wall Street is at all time lows. Confidence in many local police forces has been shaken. Granted no troops in the streets.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

mordko said:


> What difference does it make what Ephesus looks like if teachers and judges are being fired en mass and Kurds are being imprisoned or murdered by the Turkish autocratic Islamist government?


+1. Journalists and media outlets critical of the president are routinely sent to prison and shut down. Turkey is just behind Congo Republic in almost last place in the press freedom index. The Turkish president like Trump, is unable to take any criticism and has filed thousands of "insult" lawsuits against journalists, teachers, judges, high school and university students, and even foreigners. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...omplaint-german-comedian-160413050525622.html

2 elections in 2015; president forces the prime minister out of office; several terror attacks; an attempted coup. Not even good for a holiday these days let alone live there.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...opposition-newspaper-zaman-erdogan-government


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

About a year ago I went for a vacation in Turkey and had a great time. I don't regret going and Ankara & Istanbul felt pretty normal to me. I spent most of my time on the Mediterranean coast (which is totally empty/inexpensive now) and never felt in any danger there.

The trip back through Istanbul airport worried me, justifiably. This was before the massive attacks in June. Some of my friends call me a worrier. Well, the kinds of attacks I worried about when I passed through IST last year are exactly what happened a few months later.


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

Regardless of How America Votes, Americans Want a Different Foreign Policy:
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...oreign-policy/

Last month a fascinating poll was conducted by the Center for the National Interest and the Charles Koch Institute. A broad ranging 1,000 Americans were asked a series of questions about US foreign policy and the 15 year “war on terror.”
the poll found that only 14 percent of Americans believe US foreign policy has made them more safe! More than 50 percent of those polled said the next US president should use less force overseas, and 80 percent said the president must get authorization from Congress before taking the country to war.

…...But this election and many recent polls demonstrate that their time has passed. They may not know it yet, but their failures are too obvious and Americans are sick of paying for them.

What is to be done? We must continue to educate ourselves and others. We must resist those who are preaching “interventionism-lite” and calling it a real alternative. Claiming we must protect our “interests” overseas really means using the US military to benefit special interests. 

That is not what the military is for. We must stick to our non-interventionist guns. No more regime change. No more covert destabilization programs overseas.
A solid defense budget, not an imperial military budget. US troops home now. End US military action in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, and so on. Just come home.

Americans want change, no matter who wins. We need to be ready to provide that alternative.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

s123 said:


> - Regardless of How America Votes, Americans Want a Different Foreign Policy:
> http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...es-americans-want-a-different-foreign-policy/
> 
> Last month a fascinating poll was conducted by the Center for the National Interest and the Charles Koch Institute. A broad ranging 1,000 Americans were asked a series of questions about US foreign policy and the 15 year “war on terror.”
> ...



Totally agree this is the right thing to do. This is why I was hoping Rand Paul would have been the republican leader. The US is always selling war of some kind and Syria and Iran are just more of the same. Time to bring the troops home and stop the failed war policies.

War in Vietnam = Fail
War in Korea = Never really ended
War on drugs = Fail
War on terror = Enormous failure of epic proportions
War in Syria = Huge mess so far
War in Iraq = Huge mess so far
War in Afghanistan = Success if you look at opium production greatly rising


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Surely America is a tad safer now than it was on 9/11 2001 when there was no war on terror. 

Ron Paul is another weirdo with a virulently racist history and isolationist credo.

War in Korea is something that millions of South Koreans are very grateful for, not just to the US, but also to Canada. 

War in Syria is indeed a mess, not least because we washed our hands and let them do their worst. 

War in Afghanistan did dislodge the terrorists who attacked us on our soil. 

Of course there were many other actions throughout the years. Like in Panama, which is prospering. And in Yugoslavia, which ended the greatest mass murder in Europe since WW2. And in Siera Leone, which again ended local civil war and saved the country.


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## wisdomlight (Nov 19, 2016)

Would you mind sharing your thoughts and decision now?


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