# what is Japan doing with 11 nuclear reactors



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

11 have been closed down so far. Have no idea how many may still be operating.

and i always thought post-hiroshima-post-nagasake japan was a non-nuclear nation.


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## twowheeled (Jan 15, 2011)

nuclear weapons are different from nuclear reactors. how do you expect such a small country with few natural resources to power such a huge grid?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Nope. In fact, several of the leading manufacturers of reactors are Japanese.

Japan is heavily dependent on energy imports, so I'd say nuclear makes a great deal of sense.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

not discussing weapons. Fission is fission.

damaged reactors are dangerous. Chernobyl, 3-mile island.

no word whatsoever that any of the shut-down reactors were disabled in any way. However the full wreckage report from this am's disaster has not even remotely begun to appear. Will take days. Reactor damage would be one of the last items to be discussed.


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## hypo (Aug 11, 2010)

Practically all countries make heavy use of nuclear reactors for electricity generation, it is the US that is the anomaly due to the 3 mile Island accident. It is a large reason why the Europeans and Japanese emit so much less pollutants than the US.

Japan heavily uses nuclear reactors primarily because it knows its security and economy are extremely vulnerable to oil shocks. Approximately 50% of domestic energy consumption is now provided by these reactors. Practically all its oil is imported from the Middle East and must be shipped through the Straits of Malacca. A shutdown of those straits due to war or accident would grind the nation of Japan to a halt within days, and unlike China, Japan does not have significant reserves of coal it can use in cases of emergency.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the issue of which nations utilize nuclear energy heavily & why has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of assessing damage caused by a century-severe earthquake that occurred this am.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

I work in the industry and I can tell you Nuclear power is designed to be as safe as possible. 

A tremendous amount of effort and investment goes into ensuring that Nuclear Power Plants can *safely* shutdown following an earthquake and not have any releases of radioactive material. Failing a safe shutdown they are designed such that even with a core meltdown, the probability of any radioactive release has to be extremely low.

The emergency w/ the plant where the backup generators failed is that this resulted in the coolant pumps losing power. However the plant design is such that the core could sit uncooled for a couple of weeks, which is more than enough time to get a backup generator working again. In the meantime, there's enough concrete to ensure that any potential for radioactive release is highly unlikely (as mandated by international regulations), and that the potential for any major radioactive release is even less likely.

The evacuation is SOP.

I agree with you that it is curious why a country with such a high rate of seismic activity would have nuclear reactors, but I'm sure they assessed the risk to benefit ratio, and determined it was in their interests to have them. One thing that is important to know is that the seismic design standards that a nuclear reactor has to meet and exceed are based on its location, therefore that higher risk of seismic activity is taken into account.


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## 72camaross (Apr 26, 2010)

I also am in the nuclear power plant industry and logged out hit the nail on the head.

I don't know why we're not building more of them... but that's just my opinion and a topic for another day.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

thank you loggedout. I am aware that safety precautions are so extensive that it would take volumes more than your post to adequately describe them.

what would draw one's attention is an earthquake that could be powerful enough to crack a core chamber. Eight point nine is a helluva quake.

meanwhile, whether the pro-nukes in this forum approve or not, editors around the globe have already assigned reporters to double-check the status of all japanese reactors as a routine part of their quake follow-up stories.

ny times already reports that one reactor emergency has surfaced in fukushima prefecture, where the emergency generators that you mention, logged, have evidently failed. Crews are working to mobilize additional generators.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/world/asia/12nuclear.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

you'll notice that major damage follow-up stories are only beginning to be filed in the media. All we know is that airports are shut down, harbours are closed & rail lines are not operating. Japan has not been this crippled since WW II.


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

There was no shortage of Japanese photographers that's for sure. Better buy your Sony or Toyota today before the shortages start.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> thank you loggedout. I am aware that safety precautions are so extensive that it would take volumes more than your post to adequately describe them.
> 
> what would draw one's attention is an earthquake that could be powerful enough to crack a core chamber. Eight point nine is a helluva quake.
> 
> ...


For the record I am not pro-nuclear, however it is my job to assess these risks, so I'm aware of what goes into their design and what the risk limit requirements are and how they are met. I'm not a decision maker on whether plants should be built or not, I just give the numbers!

This is a massive earthquake and there is definitely an increased potential for radioactive release, as I believe this earthquake exceeds what was reasonably expected as the most severe earthquake possible in the area. Still given the defense in depth approach and knowing roughly the probability numbers, I would brace for the worst but not expect it.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> 11 have been closed down so far. Have no idea how many may still be operating.
> 
> and i always thought post-hiroshima-post-nagasake japan was a non-nuclear nation.


What was their alternative?

No hydroelectric potential.
No natural gas (Notice the huge fires in imported LNG storage facilities?)
No oil. (They fought and lost WW2 largely over trying to secure oil supplies.)
No coal. 

I suppose they could have imported mountains of coal from China (or from us), and let all the pollution blow out to sea. But today they would be treated as environmental pariahs for doing it.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

and it's also the job of the editors & journalists who constitute the world's free press to assess the risks & report the news. The fifth estate has a public duty as communicators. Some may not like em, but a working free press is still the best system we've got.

your last paragraph "exceeds what was reasonably expected" is ominous. A Black Swan event might be possible.

what is heartbreaking is that this might happen to a nation that understands radiation damage better than all others. I found stories of japanese milling in the streets of tokyo this morning, with no way out & nowhere to go & no way to contact their families, to be very sad. May we all send our thoughts & prayers. Later we will learn what international help will have to be mobilized.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> not discussing weapons. Fission is fission.
> 
> damaged reactors are dangerous. Chernobyl, 3-mile island.
> 
> no word whatsoever that any of the shut-down reactors were disabled in any way. However the full wreckage report from this am's disaster has not even remotely begun to appear. Will take days. Reactor damage would be one of the last items to be discussed.


Nukular is bad and scary.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> and it's also the job of the editors & journalists who constitute the world's free press to assess the risks & report the news. The fifth estate has a public duty as communicators. Some may not like em, but a working free press is still the best system we've got.


Why do you keep talking about the free press? Is anyone here asking for their censorship? I would never so I don't understand?

I'm just providing some more context.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Reports on the news now stating some radioactive pressure will be released in the atmosphere to prevent a meltdown. 

I'm sure it will be alright, but everyone knows how potentially dangerous and helpless you are once a melt down occurs. Scary stuff.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

At least 3 nuclear plants damaged. One has a fire, another is leaking water, and the third has lost all coolant for the core...........not a good scenario when the earthquakes are continuing.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am thinking about a lot of brave people who will be working close to the reactors trying to solve the problems......and risking their lives to do so.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

logged look at your remarks.

you signed on here today at 1:29 pm with standard pro-industry nukespeak about how safe everything is. I-can-tell-you-Nuclear-power-is-designed-to-be-as-safe-as-possible, you glowed. Pun is intentional. You did not utter one single word about post-earthquake risk in japan.

45 minutes later, at 2:14 pm, you added a veiled reference to japan as a country with high rate of seismic activity.

by 2:37pm you were willing to allow that "this earthquake exceeds what was reasonably expected."

meanwhile, i had totally gotten it. So did every other journalist on the planet. At 11:52 this am i posted here about the reactor risk. Don't you dare go after me as a working scribe.

latest from globe & mail/associated press describes how grave the situation is. USAF planes already despatched carrying emergency coolant to fukushima. Apparently there are 6 reactors on this site, not just one; and 3 are damaged, with the most critical being the one that has lost its cooling system.

globe article cites excellent communication from japanese authorities. These folks in japan are *not* dishing out nukespeak pablum.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...aged-japanese-nuclear-reactor/article1938199/


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> logged look at your remarks.
> 
> you signed on here today at 1:29 pm with standard pro-industry nukespeak about how safe everything is. I-can-tell-you-Nuclear-power-is-designed-to-be-as-safe-as-possible, you glowed. Pun is intentional. You did not utter one single word about post-earthquake risk in japan.
> 
> ...


I think you're out of line and putting your own spin on my words and intentions. I simply added what I knew about the situation, as it happened (based on media reports), and my opinion on the matter based on my work experience/knowledge in the area. I said reactors are designed to be as safe as possible, I did not say at any time that this eliminates all risk or that the worst case scenario can never happen. I did not know what design basis earthquake for the seismic design for Japanese reactors was, until I looked into it, so how I could speak on it without knowing?

I never said anything about hushing or going after "scribes". Sorry but you're just being combative for no reason.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

The destructive power of nature is beyond belief.

The devastation & suffering is just incomprehensible from where we are & so hard to watch those tsunami waves swallow everything in its path; 'apocalyptic' images indeed. If I remember correctly, the Indian Ocean earthquake/tsunami of 2004, also measured 8.9 on the Richter Scale. 

There are evacuations as far away as Easter Island. 

I read in various global papers that their respective rescue delegations are due to arrive in Japan tomorrow, but that the schedule will depend on air traffic to and from Japan.

My prayers and sympathies go to all those who have been affected. Very sad day.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

zerohedge (mentioned here a few days ago) released a screenshot of a GS report showing what Japan's energy production consists of and the capacity disrupted


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## canabiz (Apr 4, 2009)

I am sure the damage would be much worse if this were to happen in another country. 

Here is a Youtube video showing how well the buildings were built to withstand this kind of shock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8s0T4BoSCQ&feature=player_embedded

I know the U.S. has already deployed naval vessels to assist with evacuation and relief efforts. I am curious what we can/will do to lend a hand.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> There was no shortage of Japanese photographers that's for sure. Better buy your Sony or Toyota today before the shortages start.


i don't think they make them in japan anymore do they ? i think all the toyotas are made in alabama and the "sonys" are made in vietnam or something ? 


> Japan is heavily dependent on energy imports, so I'd say nuclear makes a great deal of sense.


 andrew, it only makes sense until one of them blows .. the industry swears it will never happen ... until it does ... in the meantime, the industry that swears it will never happen, never stops it's efforts to limit responsibility for damages or find ways to shift it to the taxpayers ...

they are just as untrustworthy as the natural gas frackers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i stand by my posts on this matter. By every word. The nuclear crisis in japan is dangerous tonight.

truth means a lot to me, as it does to every scribe.

parties claiming to be nuclear industry experts but pontificating at 1:30 this afternoon about bland safety of the nuclear industry - when every editor on the planet was scrambling to assign reporters to cover the damaged japanese reactors - were misleading the public. Perhaps not deliberately, but in such very grave matters it would be better imho to refrain from preaching & pontificating.

it is heartbreaking that the possible victims in japan have nowhere to flee. The reactor is now being cooled on battery power. Thankfully the US & presumably other nations are standing by ready to ship additional coolant & batteries as soon as proud japan agrees to accept the aid.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

There is not enough clean safe energy resources to replace nuclear power without reducing our lavish lifestyles. An 8.9 earthquake is unfortunately beyond the level of risk we accept to have this lifestyle

Everybody complains about the cost of power, well safety costs money. In general nuclear power is safer than people think. The only real alternative is to consume less energy

Everyone knows that nuclear plants are dangerous, and I tend to agree the media will exaggerate anything that gets an audience, but they don't really have to exaggerate this risk. You just can't be 100% prepared for that kind of disaster

If they are not accepting aid though that is just wrong


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

OK.... now for the really serious discussion....

The phrase/movie "the China Syndrome" referred to a core meltdown which resulted in the nuclear core getting so hot that it melted its way through the center of the Earth and ended up in China. OK, so the question is, do the Japanese refer to this eventuality as the "American Syndrome?" Enquiring minds want to know.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Obviously, Japan has not figured out what McGuinty already knows--that power from windmills and solar panels is the way to go!!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mode you are knowledgeable about these matters.

japanese pm has said the nation will accept aid. Reuters story is saying 5 reactors are damaged, 2 are only hours away from a core meltdown.

meanwhile the US air bases are apparently still operating. Yokota AFB is not even that far from the quake region. Would you know any reason why the US can not get enuf generators & fuel in there to power the reactors through the cooling process. This business of trying to run em on batteries sounds terrifying.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yokota is an airlift base but I don't know if they'd have mobile generators on standby for Japan's benefit. Any readiness units would likely be flown into Yokota though. Airlift is always in high demand and you can only move so much. What would go first generators or medical supplies and aid for casualties? Obviously the reactors are on the short list, they are literally always "on our radar" but the automatic knee jerk response is the disaster assistance personnel and supplies


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Caesium is leaking from Fukushima no. 1.. NHK advised people to remain calm, the repairs are not going so well

3 simultaneous Japanese news feeds are streaming at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8248054/view.html



> METI's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency at 2 pm July 12 at TEPCO's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant No. 1 "might meltdown has progressed," said on Wednesday. From the area around the power plant, fission of the fuel due to cesium found more ... (14:18)


 from the front page of http://www.nikkei.com/


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It's hard to believe they wouldn't have massive diesel generators hooked into the power system to commence when the power is disrupted.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

They had redundant power and cooling (water pumps) but the backup failed.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Then it looks like they may be screwed. Meltdown is reported to be occurring in several different reactors now. 

From some of the press releases, the authorities appear to be in a state of shock and basically mumbling out "nothing more can be done" statements that will surely raise panic levels in Japan.

A state of emergency has been declared and evacuations of tens of thousands of people is underway.

Another site reports the jet stream would carry a radioactive cloud to the US West coast in 36 hours.

There isn't much on the possible affects of such an occurrence.

There is still the last line of defence, the concrete containment unit.

Let's hope it holds.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Apparently the emergency generators flooded

You would think their own military would have mobile generators big enough if not the US. We have generators the size of sea containers on the backs of trucks, it's not that uncommon. Then again if the roads are out and who knows what other obstacles..


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

sags said:


> Another site reports the jet stream would carry a radioactive cloud to the US West coast in 36 hours.


I wouldn't believe this for a moment; probably the same people who said the BP oil spill would wash up on the shores of Italy.

They always talk about the "big one" that is going to rock Vancouver Island and its surroundings some day. I think this terrible disaster in Japan is proof that it's not a question of if but when. I'm certainly not in a hurry to buy a house around here.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

explosion apparently destroyed the concrete containment structure. Media reports say all that's left standing is a metal skeleton structure. No need to fill in. It will melt soon.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Apparently the emergency generators flooded
> 
> You would think their own military would have mobile generators big enough if not the US. We have generators the size of sea containers on the backs of trucks, it's not that uncommon. Then again if the roads are out and who knows what other obstacles..


The company I work for has about a dozen of them, too. There are probably quite a number in Japan.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

andrew it's nice your company has a dozen sea-container-size generators on flatbed trucks in case something goes wrong with your electric pencil sharpener.

one observes that mode also posted such trucks probably can't get to dai-ichi or anywhere else in japan because all roads are impassable.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

it's hard to trust the japanese officials saying that they have it under control...kinda like the russians with chernobyl, i get the sense they're not being as open and transparent as they need to be, to save face. i hope i am wrong, and gotta hope for the best and that the radioactive release is minimized to negligible amounts ... it's definitely a scary situation because this earthquake was so massive that as I stated before it exceeds the site specific design basis earthquake(DBE) (an earthquake so big that it would be expected to occur only once in the life of a plant) ... which means that while yes the plant is designed such that it can experience extensive damage without containment of radiation being compromised, that was for a seismic event of a lesser magnitude (i've read the requirement in japan for DBE was something in the order of 7.5 on the richter scale).

the public should be aware that regulatory requirements around the world with respect to nukes take a risk-based approach where the goal is to reduce the nuclear risk to an "acceptable" level. this is not "pro-nuke" speak to say there is absolutely no risk, it's the facts. i am of a view that a rational case can be made that the acceptable risk is 0 risk and that no plants should be built, and all should be closed BUT those are policy decisions, which are complicated by economic and other risks beyond nuclear safety. as others have pointed out Japan has nuclear power as a part of its energy mix because it knows its security and economy are vulnerable to being too dependent on oil. It's why China, its neighbor, is building so many building plants. Right or wrong, agree or not, that's the rationale.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Everything is designed with an acceptable level of risk, or we'd all go bankrupt. There are not enough wind or corn fields to possibly replace our current Nuclear usage.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

> In a race against time, the power company and the Japanese military are flying in more than a dozen emergency generators. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton announced yesterday that the U.S. Air Force has provided cooling water for the troubled reactors. Complicating matters, Japan's Meteorological Agency has declared the area to be at high risk of being hit by a tsunami.





> Unfortunately, a large explosion destroyed the reactor building at unit 1, which might be due to the generation of hydrogen from overheated fuel cladding. Significantly, higher radiation levels are also being reported at the plant boundary -- large enough to prompt a major evacuation over a large area in the U.S. The presences of cesium-137, is clear evidence that radioactive fuel debris is escaping into the environment. These events point strongly to a reactor core melt. Radiation levels at the site are about 10,000 times above normal.


Apparently it would take 48 hrs to stabilize the reactors even without the power shortage, and there's no confirmation the cooling system isn't damaged as well


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Maybe Japan is interested in relocating their country to a safer region in the world.. I recommend the southern half of present NWT


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Not to belabor the point but perhaps the Japanese government should set up a meeting with Ontario's Premier, the world's resident expert on solar and wind power, and look into those two options.

Of course, these solutions will result in much higher hydro rates for Japanese consumers but, if Ontarians can afford it, then surely so can the Japanese.

Or, maybe their government researches these things thoroughly first before jumping into it head first. Or, maybe their government actually cares about keeping hydro rates low while McGuinty feels no such compulsion.

I wish the Japanese people all the best in this their time of trial and tribulation. Our thoughts are with you!!


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

It's all really sad to see....... To top it off, Japan has the highest debt in the world projected to be about 12 TRILLION USD dollars  This could be the last nail in the financial coffin. 

They said the cause of the overheating was due to a sticking pedal made by Toyota . . .. No, this is a just a bad joke.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ny times reports a 2nd reactor is nearing meltdown w damaged cooling systems.

altogether reports since yesterday have confirmed at least 5 damaged reactors, or perhaps the figures should be read as the 2 critically injured reactors at dai-ichi & dainii plus another 5 more.

somewhere upthread sags writes of the courageous workers attempting to stabilize the reactors round-the-clock. Those of us who pray could pray for them as it is a near-suicide mission (the 3 who were injured already have radiation sickness, says ny times) (which means, as far as i know, that they will die soon when they develop it this fast). And those who don't pray could send a moment of concerned thought, from their hearts, out into space.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Heres a video of the explosion at the nuclear power plant today: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM3FWIKxWDs


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

If I understood correctly, NBC Nightly News reported that all three reactors at one of the nuclear sites was now in trouble. They are desperately pumping sea water into all three reactors in an effort to cool them but if they still end up in a meltdown and the cement casing doesn't hold them, then they will have a full-fledged Chernobal on their hands.

These folks need all of our prayers.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

the concrete containment shed at one reactor has already exploded in an unusual & unexpected sub-accident. In fact this happened yesterday.

ny times has a detailed explanation. Something to do with hydrogen in the turbine hall.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I think at this point, there are conflicting reports regarding the meltdown. 

The Japanese director of international affairs is reporting that there is a possibility of a meltdown will occur. 

However, Japan's ambassador to the US said there is no evidence that a meltdown is happening. 

CNN reports that 9 people have been treated for radiation poisoning. 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-japan-quake-meltdown-20110312,0,2889362.story


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ambassador is not telling the truth. It's common in dire catastrophic emergencies for authorities to fudge the truth so as not to panic the people.

deciding when & how to admit the truth to a vast trapped population must be an excruciating decision for political leaders to have to make. It's already overwhelming to imagine how they will care for all those who need homes, water, heat, food & medical care. Task will be so much more difficult if there is widespread panic.

i'm not sure i'm willing to believe this story of "a small meltdown" at dai-ichi. Since yesterday i've wondered if a core meltdown may actually be underway. The presence of caesium outside the reactor tells a bad story. Another reactor at dainii is close to this point.

media doing a good job in chaotic situation. Apparently the nearest western reporters are reuters but they're being kept 40 miles away from dai-ichi reactor.


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## Ambit Energy (Mar 13, 2011)

For your queries the two nuclear reactor plant are now in devastating situation due to Tsunami last Friday.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

This is currently classified as a level 4 problem but I have heard several experts say tonight that the International Nuclear Energy Commission is downplaying the problem since they are in the business of promoting nuclear energy.

These experts say that it is more like a level 5 and even possibly a level 6 or the worst possible--a level 7.

The next few hours should tell us more.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news.html


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## ILT (Jan 31, 2011)

There is still problems with refrigeration of the reactor. I assume that it´s a big problem for Japanese experts of atomic physics. I try to believe the Japanese workmanship


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

factoids. One snippet buried deep in yesterday's roundup ny times article on the reactors said fuel rods at dai-ichi no 1 reactor are now 3 metres above the water level. 

3 metres that's a meltdown. But how do they know this. It's hard to imagine any detection devices within the reactor vessel that would still be working.

another worrisome detail comes from a nuclear expert now teaching at princeton. He visited the aging 40-year-old japanese reactors several times in the 1980s. He's worried now about the spent fuel rod pools, which are housed with the reactors. These rods remain radioactive, of course, so they slumber underwater, even at pickering ontario.

princeton prof is worried that safety water covering the spent fuel rods in the pools has boiled away.

and then there was one beyond nightmarish detail. One sentence said that, in the design of these japanese reactors, the spent. rod. pools. are. built. on. the. rooftops. That's right, on the roofs. And now at least one building has exploded.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Belguy said:


> Not to belabor the point but perhaps the Japanese government should set up a meeting with Ontario's Premier, the world's resident expert on solar and wind power, and look into those two options.
> 
> Of course, these solutions will result in much higher hydro rates for Japanese consumers but, if Ontarians can afford it, then surely so can the Japanese.
> 
> Or, maybe their government researches these things thoroughly first before jumping into it head first. Or, maybe their government actually cares about keeping hydro rates low while McGuinty feels no such compulsion.


+++1
Good one, BG


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> However, Japan's ambassador to the US said there is no evidence that a meltdown is happening.


 oh ? well then ... i'm certain everything's fine

if the government says everything is fine, i'm sure it is .....


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

All of this nuclear stuff is hard to comprehend; all I can think about is the eventual death toll & human suffering.

"So powerful was the quake—off the coast of Japan and 24km under water—that Italy's National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology said the Earth's axis shifted 25 centimeters as a result, and the US Geological Survey said the main island of Japan had shifted 2.4 meters."


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

What? The Earth's axis isn't supposed to shift until 2012!


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## Beleriand (Jan 31, 2011)

Fresh news are very bad with the reactor in Fukushima.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I think that the next 24 hours is going to tell us a lot but, I heard on the TV news tonight that a Chernobyl like scenario is "not likely" when all is said and done.

I think that McGuinty is starting to look like a genious with his solar panels and windmills!! Maybe he will get my vote after all---NOT!!!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I would never dreamed that this news would get so personal, but my sister in law (married to my brother) daughter lives in Japan. She is married to a Japanese fellow and they have one child. 

The live 40 kilometers from the nuclear plant.

She and the child have left the area. All transportation is down, but she managed to hire a taxi and is now in a town 140 kms away. It took 12 hours to go 100 kms. The good news is that the roads must be somewhat passable, although very crowded.

She is going to try to get to Tokyo and get a flight home to Canada.

Her husband is staying there to be with his parents and family.

Internet and cellphone use is sketchy. Sometimes it works and sometimes not.

Very stressful for my sister in law and brother, until they get back to Canada, but things are looking better now.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

It's difficult to understand that, with a 9.0 earthquake that many of the roads remained usable even near the epicentre.

Glad that your family is safe, sags!!!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Nikkei is down ~6%.

Wow.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

It'll be interesting to see if this spreads to some other markets or is confined to Tokyo.

Monday will be another interesting day on the markets!!!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yea, that was a bit of good news about the road, but "passable" may mean driving around a lot of breaks in the road and debris.

The bad news is that there is no public transport of any kind, so most people are stuck there.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yes, there will be news on the markets, and Japan of course, but it pushed Libya off the news.

Ghaddafi is slaughtering people and has a clear path to the freedom fighters now. They are poorly armed and have no military strategy. In short, they are sitting ducks.

The US dithered too long. They should have dropped a couple of bombs in the near vicinity of his troops (without doing any real damage) just as a warning to stop or else.

So much going on, how does the market digest all this?

Up.....down.....sideways.......hard to tell.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

sags said:


> Up.....down.....sideways.......hard to tell.


I dont even want to look at the markets tomorrow.
Probably gonna lose some money.

Although, with American markets slightly up on Friday, hopefully it will stay contained within Japanese markets. I wouldn't count on it, though.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I was just reading the Australian news [given they are 15/16 hours ahead of us] and the markets are down 1% thus far, but it is still only early afternoon there; not surprising, uranium stocks are the hardest hit.

*sags:* glad your family is safe and I agree with your comments with respect to Libya. 

At this difficult time, we should cherish what we have.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Belguy said:


> I think that the next 24 hours is going to tell us a lot but, I heard on the TV news tonight that a Chernobyl like scenario is "not likely" when all is said and done.


Chernobyl was the only Level 7, Three Mile Island was a Level 5, this is currently a Level 4 "Minor release of radioactive material" Realistically it sounds more like a Level 5 or possibly Level 6 if things get worse... A Level 6 is classified as "significant release of radioactive material" which is a disaster in itself, but not as bad as Chernolyl. They didn't even have containment shelters back then

From what I've read about Chernobyl they were actually trying to devise a system that would use the coasting turbine to power the cooling system during the 1 minute it takes the backup generators to kick in. 45 seconds without cooling was considered unacceptable in Chernobyl, and now in Japan we have reactors with no backup generators at all! Both Chernobyl and Three Mile are classic examples of cumulative human error on night shift etc, nothing like a 9 magnitude Earthquake! I would say they've done very well in spite of the situation to not have a Chernobyl level situation


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Good time to invest in Japan?

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110314x2.html


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Belguy said:


> Good time to invest in Japan?
> 
> http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110314x2.html


Count me out of that one.

Although, I would love to own a brand new, 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X...
If I buy one, am helping the Japanese economy? Is that justified?


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

The family of our favorite Sushi Restaurant lives very close to Sendai and have not heard from any of their extended family of aunts,uncles and cousins.They are expecting many causalities in their family but still worked yesterday .It really put things in perceptive how fortunate we are.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

As of the last word, our sister in law's daughter is making her way to Narita airport, as she is being passed from one friend of a friend's vehicle to another friend of a friend's vehicle as they progress. Given the shortage of gasoline, these people who really don't know her, are being more than generous and considerate.

The Japanese are showing they are an amazingly resilient and kind people.

Unfortunately, food shortages are starting to show up. I hope the aid gets there quickly.

In a funny twist, although Americans make fun of Ramen noodles, in some places that is all they have to eat, and are very grateful for it. The packages are being rationed to 5 at a time.

Fortunately, the other coast of Japan is largely unaffected. People who live there say it is like watching another country. At least, people will have a safe place to move to, once they get organized enough to transport people. The local areas will be uninhabitable for a long time.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Belguy said:


> Good time to invest in Japan?
> 
> http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110314x2.html


I was going to mention that as well. People are saying this is horrible for a country in stagnation, but a disaster can actually jump start an economy.. I just wouldn't want to be an insurance company!



KaeJS said:


> Count me out of that one.
> 
> Although, I would love to own a brand new, 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X...
> If I buy one, am helping the Japanese economy? Is that justified?


I'll take a 2011 Subaru STi myself. There's been photos of entire lots of new cars destroyed


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

cameco 32.80 in US premarket down 12.25%


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

3rd explosion at no 2 reactor.

the most serious by far.

about 3 hours ago.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I read last night that a partial meltdown may be occurring inside the reactor(s). 

One interesting note, when Katrina hit New Orleans, the Americans looted business. In Japan, they said there is no looting going on.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I have been watching much of the nuclear plant coverage on the various TV networks. This has led me to the conclusion that, out of 7 danger levels for nuclear plant failures, the average rating from the experts is around 2 or 3 out of 7 for the current problems in Japan.

However, the average rating for the news correspondents on the scene is around 10 out of 7!!

That's one of the ways that they hold onto their viewers. 

I'm not trying to underestimate what undoubtedly are serious problems but I'd rather listen to the experts than to the news folks.

Is it too late to sell my uranium investments?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

belguy the same "experts" you are listening to are the ones that keep pumping out buy hold & prosper ...

a obvious lot of "experts" are lying to prevent panic.

try picking up globe's mckinnon twittering from the scene. Or any good newsman.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

fwiw my money says a full meltdown has been underway in no 2 reactor since this am EST


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> a obvious lot of "experts" are lying to prevent panic.


 every single time i hear about a disaster that involves radiation or chemicals or whatever, i hear the government telling me, "everything is fine" and it's never fine

this is just their job, i guess, lie to the little people so they don't get upset

i hope i live to see the end of governments....


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

cat we have to have governments. But long live the 5th estate.

ABC news journo Akiko tweets from quake zone:

http://twitter.com/AkikoFujita


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Here's the best explanation of the incident I've seen so far:

http://mitnse.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/

An update:

http://mitnse.com/2011/03/15/status...on-of-electric-power-companies-of-japan-fepc/

mitnse = MIT Nuclear Science and Engineering


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Nice article here, I tend to agree.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...docId=CNG.da1e9b2de27d71e69945d51f7da49dbe.a1


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

High levels of radiation have been detected after a fire was put out at a 4th reactor. The PM released a public annoucment warning people to stay indoors:

"It is likely that the level of radiation increased sharply due to a fire at Unit 4," Edano said. "*Now we are talking about levels that can damage human health. *These are readings taken near the area where we believe the releases are happening. Far away, the levels should be lower," he said.

"Please do not go outside. Please stay indoors. Please close windows and make your homes airtight. Don't turn on ventilators. Please hang your laundry indoors," he said.

"These are figures that potentially affect health. There is no mistake about that," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/15/japan-radiation-leak-nuclear-crisis

I have read other news reports stated the radiation detected is 8000+ micros now.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

another big earthquake hits japan minutes ago. Tokyo shaking.

details will be in media soon or try this tweet.

http://twitter.com/markmackinnon


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## greeny (Jan 31, 2011)

Nice explanation in articles guys. The current info say about the danger of Tokyo from the Fukushima´s reactor.


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

clearly, TMFP!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

cluster of significant quakes & aftershocks this am EST. A 6.4 w epicentre under mt fuji, ie not far from tokyo.

narita airport must be busting with folks trying to fly out.

agence france presse ordering its reporters out of the country, or what ?

globe's asia correspondent tweets:

http://twitter.com/markmackinnon


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> cat we have to have governments. But long live the 5th estate.


 no way pie, they're going ... we're gonna do everything on the internet from now on


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## dcaron (Jul 23, 2009)

*Chernobyl clean-up expert slams Japan, IAEA*

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011...n-up-expert-slams-japan-idUSTRE72E7AL20110315


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

fatcat said:


> every single time i hear about a disaster that involves radiation or chemicals or whatever, i hear the government telling me, "everything is fine" and it's never fine
> 
> this is just their job, i guess, lie to the little people so they don't get upset
> 
> i hope i live to see the end of governments....


Do parents tell their kids they're all going to die?! The analogy is quite suiting actually, as kids don't understand why their parents tell them they can't eat candy all the time and why they should wear safety equipment etc

How exactly do you think Nuclear plants would be safer without government regulations? If we let "competition" rule the Nuclear plants, do you think the companies with the cheapest energy would would go bankrupt, or the ones with the most safety and environmental concerns??


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> Do parents tell their kids they're all going to die?! The analogy is quite suiting actually, as kids don't understand why their parents tell them they can't eat candy all the time and why they should wear safety equipment etc
> 
> How exactly do you think Nuclear plants would be safer without government regulations? If we let "competition" rule the Nuclear plants, do you think the companies with the cheapest energy would would go bankrupt, or the ones with the most safety and environmental concerns??


 mode, i think you read my post wrong (at least in terms of what i was meaning to say) first, we re not children and the government is not our parent so i don't accept your analogy.....

i think nuclear technology is a dead end, a dangerous waste of time and money that serves only to divert us from the real problem of leaving a somewhat lighter footprint on the world .. we waste a tremendous amount of energy

i am against building any more nuclear plants anywhere period ever ...

the free market would never even build them without government regulation anyway because the "free market" would hold out it's hand for cheap construction loans and then would want almost complete liability from any adverse consequence

the free market is the LAST entity that i would put in charge of building nuclear if i even believed they should be built..


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

People like relatively cheap nuclear energy so that they can use it with reckless abandon.

Most other forms of man-made power are much more expensive and would require more conservation or much higher hydro rates.

I think that this crisis in Japan will be largely behind us by the weekend.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

A second fire has broke out now at reator # 4 : Radiation levels reported 10X higer in Tokyo..

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...n-quake-reactor-fire-20110316,0,7859671.story


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

fatcat said:


> mode, i think you read my post wrong (at least in terms of what i was meaning to say) first, we re not children and the government is not our parent so i don't accept your analogy.....


The analogy is that you don't understand what the gov is doing to look after you and the environment. Without regulations there is no financial incentive for a private company to do so at all. Take away the parents and we just eat candy

I agree that we waste a tremendous amount of power and leave a foul footprint with Nuclear disaters such as Fukushima. The radiation pollution will be the longest lasting legacy of our generation.

What I don't agree with is that government is to blame. The masses will always chose cheap power over the environment, as seen on other threads here. How would a private wind power company not go bankrupt? If we cover the globe with wind turbines, there won't be a single bird left. I'm sure that has no affect on our footprint?


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

We want cheap power!!!!!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

media tweets are now referring to the 50 workers who returned to the reactors, after having been taken out by managers, as on a suicide mission.

some day i want to read about each one of them. Engineers all, nothing could have driven them to such sacrifice except the altruistic hope of sparing mankind.

perhaps what happened is that the 50 know they will not survive the radiation they've already endured, so they are volunteering to fight the catastrophe as long as life & strength shall be left.

perhaps a collective nobel peace prize for all. Even more heartbreaking because so few will be able to collect it.

what i'd rather not even think about is how the valves had to be opened manually, if at all. That must have meant heavily-garbed engineers crawling out in radioactive steam directly above the reactor chamber ...

somewhere on a US site i read another poster w obvious technical experience who wrote that the likely end will be a dirty bomb type of fission, with a deadly radioactive plume blowing in the prevailing winds. One should keep in mind that this will not be a single-event eruption. The plume will spew for weeks, perhaps months.

he asked for a moment of silence.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Agreed. The hero word gets overused to the point of cliche, but these people are genuinely heroic.


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## webber22 (Mar 6, 2011)

Maybe the name of the nuclear plant says it all - FUK U shima


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

It now appears that restoring electricity is the only viable solution.
Once electricity has been restored, the normal cooling systems will come back up.
But that is a huge challenge for the electricians involved.
The workers involved in this whole situation are true heros.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

It's hard to believe that it has been exactly one year since the Fukushima tragedy that left thousands dead and thousands still missing.

One truly has to marvel at the behaviour/character and determination of the Japanese people.

*"Last year’s triple disaster—earthquake, tsunami and nuclear meltdown—has shattered Japanese faith in many of the country’s institutions"*

http://www.economist.com/node/21549917 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/09/japan-tsunami-and-earthquake-then-and-now/


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