# advice? what would you do??



## Jaymac83 (Sep 23, 2012)

Hey all,

Here is a scenario we have been faced with and am looking for some unbiased input from others out side of our circle of friends.

My wife has been employed for 2 yrs for a company as a casual employee but maintained full time hours this entire time.
Since she began her employment there have been 2 managers come and go. The 3rd and current manager seems to be trying to possibly push her out the door or so we think.

My wife has been recipient of numerous accolades (15 +) for her positive attitude, work ethic and commitment to the core values of the organization etc. 
She has been working since she was 16 and has received many positive references and never once has been fired, written up etc.

2 weeks ago she was asked to "come into my office for a quick meeting at 3pm"
When she arrived she was faced with her current manager and a representative from HR. Completely blindsided she was provided with a letter of counselling job performance outlining 3 key points where she was being "written up".

1) numerous clerical errors
2) faxing the wrong information to the wrong company 
3) past performance issues within another clerical role.

our point of view
1) yes errors were made and willing to accept responsibility for them. She has acknowledged that she had made mistakes and had requested to have some more training with respect to fixing the errors. This request was made at least 2 times in the past 5 months before this meeting and nothing has been provided.

2) It was never brought to her attention that any paper work was faxed to the wrong location, and nobody can really prove who pressed the "send" button on the fax machine. This is unsubstantiated in our point of view.

3) past performance issues within another clerical role - she was afforded an opportunity to be an admin assistant in a newly developed role. During her time in the role there was minimal training as it was a new addition. There was a short period during a probationary period where there were issues that came up which were remedied. This was a temp position and when the time period was up the job was posted as per policy. The manager told her that she would be an asset to the new position and should apply for the full time permanent position (she didn't). - This role is completely different from the role she was currently doing (apples to oranges)

In the letter the bottom line was "this letter is not disciplinary in nature however if your job performance not improve you will be subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment."

As a casual employee in this organization you float between places (6 places in total that you could potentially be placed in the event that there are coverage requirements.)

She was also told that she would only be allowed to cover 1 of these positions until further notice. This position is currently held by a full time employee and the only hours that would be available would be days that the full timer calls in sick. 

In our opinion #2 and 3 are unsubstantiated and no proof of any wrong doing was brought to her attention prior to this meeting nor were there any incident reports filed for any misconduct. Errors are made by all who work in the department and not just her. 

For this letter not being disciplinary in nature it sure seems that she is being disciplined by not being allowed to work in other locations where she is qualified and trained to do so.

She has since had another meeting where she was fully prepared to rebut the above information with her manager and the same HR rep. Her rebuttal seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Her manager said she would think it over and get back to her.

She responded a few days later stating that the organization does not have to have any incident reports for the errors or missed fax . She went on to explain that in her previous clerical role the manager stated that she was pulled from the position because of her inability to fulfil her clerical duties. She was told that she was being pulled because the successful applicant was transferring in on X date.

So with this letter on your file you are not allowed to apply for any positions for a period of 1 year. This is a non-unionized working environment.

How can an employer make accusations with out having any evidence to support their claim?
How can a manager say one thing to you as an employee and when questioned later by another manager the information provided be so different? If there were issues during her temporary tenure in the previous role shouldn't she have been notified in writing then? Why after 8 months would this surface on a letter of counselling? 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously with the cut in hours she was forced to seek other employment. She walked into her previous employer to ask if they were hiring. She was hired on the spot and was told that they were very sad to see her go as she was one of their best employees.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

In my previous life as a worker I did see this type of scenario play out many times.

Once they decide someone is gone it will happen, in the case of a regular fulltime person they start the document process to justify their end goal.
I've seen people have weekly meetings !!

In your wife's case the fact that she is a casual employee can make it easier for them but I would consult with an employment lawyer.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

A lot of people go through this at some point(i got let go from a contract that i had for with company for seven yrs)
it started with 'violations' and 'meetings'(they were actually trying to adjust prices for my services to a lower rate,renewed on a yearly basis)
Anyways i knew it was inevitable,i was mad as hell they way i was treated in the end but it's part of the business world

Usually it can be a good thing!a fresh start and a better opportunity somewhere else,knowing what she knows and how she is being treated and under valued does she even want to be there?I know when i reflected i didn't and even if she was to stay it seldom gets better

Who knows why the company made the choice,best to move on!the company cast the first stone(get out fast so her self worth doesn't take a hit either)
That paper work was part of the process for the company and i would bet it has been well thought out legally(they basically let her go weeks ago)
On to a new chapter i say!put them in the rear view mirror!move on and don't waste energy on them.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Daniel A. said:


> In my previous life as a worker I did see this type of scenario play out many times.
> 
> *Once they decide someone is gone it will happen*,
> in the case of a regular fulltime person they start the document process to justify their end goal.



+1 ^
Usually with a large company there is a 6 month or yearly performance review. If your job performance is not up to expectations,
you are on their "chopping block" with approval from HR.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If she is really that good, she'll have no trouble finding a job elsewhere.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will put up with crap like this because they are too insecure (or lazy) to look for other opportunities. 

Find a new job and turn in her notice. At that point one of two things will happen, either the company will say nothing (which probably means she was on the way out anyway), or a senior manager will become concerned that a quality employee is leaving. If your wife is one of a pattern, it usually gets noticed and her manager may get into trouble and soon be replaced...

Either way, since she is leaving to in all likelihood a better environment, it won't matter to your wife. It's the company's loss not hers. 

Basic rule of thumb, if you don't like something, look for ways within your control to change it, don't sit around complaining that life's not fair.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

I agree with the previous posters that based on the information you provided it would unfortunately seem that the company could be planting the groundwork for eventual termination. Presumably you are aware that employees (non union) can be dismissed anytime without explanation. The legal terminology is "dismissed with cause" or "dismissed without cause". The only difference with these terminations is that "with cause" you need documented evidence and the company does not have to pay severance and "without cause" means you are still dismissed but the company has to pay severance. The meeting would seem to be a first step to ensuring they have "cause" (this has to be documented) to dismiss the employee, your wife. There is, of course, the chance that these items are simply being documented in case similar things happen again. Unfortunately, when an employee receives one of these they are often quite upset and rightfully so. Furthermore, the employee doesn't really know if they are being monitored closely for eventual dismissal or, if the letter is simply a note and the company is concerned about her performance in a couple of areas. If it is the latter and these errors continue the company cannot dismiss "without cause" unless it is documented. I can't suggest or make recommendations for what your wife should do as I am unaware of the context or nature of the letter. It could be normal practice for the company to deal with performance issues in this matter or there could be a larger issue such as the company does not feel your wife is a good fit going forward.
Unfortunately I have had to deal with these situations many times and they are very uncomfortable for everyone involved and the uncertainty often has the employee walking on glass going forward. I would suggest that your wife has the choice of accepting the letter and try to improve her performance or commence searching for new employment. I don't feel anything would be gained by disputing the contents of the letter.
As an aside, the accolades your wife received were no doubt presented in all honesty and were part of the motivation efforts of the company.
One other point, the change in managers could well have something to do with the matter and I have seen this many times as well. Different managers have different expectations and wants people working for them that they are very comfortable with. Perhaps this could be the case here but no doubt you have heard that "you can't win a fight with the boss".
I am sorry for your circumstances and wish you all the best going forward. You will both be fine regardless of the outcome.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Daniel A. said:


> In my previous life as a worker I did see this type of scenario play out many times.
> 
> Once they decide someone is gone it will happen, in the case of a regular fulltime person they start the document process to justify their end goal.
> I've seen people have weekly meetings !!
> ...


 ... save yourself the aggravation and the $$$ of consulting with an employment lawyer as frase also said - they can terminate you "without cause" meaning "any reason - like the manager fell off the wrong side of bed this morning." ... you can't fight with the boss ... as long as you get a severance here, move on to a better position. Good luck.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Crappy situation, however probably for the best that she found a new/old job so soon. I would think of it as a blessing in disguise.


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