# Heat a room for 15 cents a day.



## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/heat-room-15-cents-day-video/

I don't know if this works but it looks pretty neat.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

If you do the math the guys actually saves about $.20 a dat or something Dumb.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Pollute my indoor air to save pennies? NO THANKS.

A Breath of fresh air? Not with Paraffin Candles!

Candle smoke could be as toxic as cigarettes


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Spidey said:


> http://www.secretsofthefed.com/heat-room-15-cents-day-video/
> 
> I don't know if this works but it looks pretty neat.


How many rooms do you have? How much is your heating bill minus the connection charge.

At $0.15/day/room, I'd be paying more than I am now for a gas furnace.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

To save anyone from having to click through, this is heating with Ikea (or other) candles.

I have to agree on the indoor air quality issue.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Also a fire hazard.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A have a beef with this drive to force us all into the "energy efficient" CFL bulbs. Incandescent bulbs were beautiful heat generators and totally suitable for Canada. I'm concerned they will phase out incandescents completely. Will I still be able to buy them in the future?

I realize this doesn't address the "cost of heating" question (because you still pay for the electricity) but still.

"Waste heat" is a godsend in the Canadian winter. Get a computer in a room and some incandescent bulbs, and there's hundreds of watts of heat being generated... none of it waste. I want that heat, personally.

I find it silly to pay extra money (a lot extra) on fancy CFL bulbs that contain tons of extra electronics, heavy metals, and mercury vapour in them too. While I definitely use them in the summer, I see no need for them in the winter.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

@james
Do you swap light bulbs like you change your car's winter tires? 
Don't forget that the cost of heating can be cheaper using your gas furnace than if you heat your room by electricity (baseboard or 100W bulb). This is posted in the frugality area, after all.

There is also the idea of pollution, and this depends where you live in Canada. In Ontario, most of our electricity is generated by Nuclear and Hydroelectric, so that's not too bad for green house gas emissions, but if you live in Alberta, a lot of electricity there is generated by burning fossil fuels such as coal. Burning coal to generate electricity to heat a home is probably worse for the environment than burning natural gas at home. Quebec generates most of its electricity using hyrdroelectric and uses electric heating as I understand, so your light bulb heating your home vs pretty much the same as using the baseboard electric heat.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I get where you're coming from. I used to leave my computer on and crunch data for SETI and use it as a way to heat my room. You're right using high order energy and simply blowing it to disorder does seem a little silly.

"waste heat' is not a 'god send'. By definition, it's a waste.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't see the math really working. A candle only puts out about 3,000-4,000 btu depending on size. You would need about 3 candles per room to actually heat each 100 square foot room.

As far as "waste heat" Take a look at Quebec. Electricity creation: Nearly 100% Hydro Electric. Most popular heating fuel? Oil. The waste heat was created at next to zero environmental cost, but the heat to replace it? Huge cost!

http://www.heatstick.com/_GlowWarm.htm Same Idea as the candle, but with a lightbulb.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I was thinking more along the lines of using something like this for camping. I couldn't see using it to heat rooms in my house. The idea looked sort of neat but I've also wondered about the BTU thing. Would make a good kids science experiment.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

In the spring and fall I use a couple of electric heaters instead of the oil furnace. The electric heaters cost $1 to $2 a day to run, the furnace at least $5.

It is especially wasteful because the burner has to run for a minute or 2 to heat up the plenum before the blower kicks in. Then, if it is not very cold out, the furnace cuts out after a minute. This means half the heat is wasted every time. In real cold weather the furnace runs longer and the fraction wasted is relatively small. At such times the electric heaters don't put out enough heat anyway.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

It costs us about $2/day to heat our house using a nat gas furnace (in the winter, obviously costs nothing from april-sept). It's pretty cheap. With a super insulated house/windows and properly sited windows you could probably reduce that cost significantly less. Some of the eco homes around here take a few hairdryers to heat the whole home in the dead of winter.

There are a few people that have installed co-gen plants in their garages around here. The plants are sized to fit the electricity load of the house, and then the 'waste' heat is used for infloor heating.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

What about WOOD STOVES? Why don't more houses have wood stoves? The house I grew up in had one and it was great.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Wood stoves have the following drawbacks:

-wood isn't free
-higher home insurance


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Wood stoves have the following drawbacks:
> 
> -wood isn't free
> -higher home insurance


You can add outdoor air pollution and health problems to the list. Save yourself 15c's. Toss on a pair of warm socks, a sweater, and a toque. Then perform jumping jacks until your desired temperature is reached - problem solved! Big house, you'll need more people.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I was thinking about that, but it's not a financial consideration.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Other ideas, brainstorming

1. Improve your window insulation (less heat loss)
2. Place heaters in more effective locations, e.g. closer to people
3. Use a small fan to mix the air more evenly
4. Large animals/pets in the house - more heat
5. Humans are large animals. Get another roommate?


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Programmable thermostats will save a good chunk of money each money. And now they have smart thermostats that will learn your schedule an adjust the heat down at night and when you aren't home. I saved about $20 a month with a $20 programmable thermostat. 

You also shouldnt have incandescent bulbs in your house anymore, or halogen. CFL or LED bulbs will save a lot of energy, but the LEDs are still pricey. You will lose some heat from waste, but the savings and "green" factor are worth it in my opinion.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Also check your attic insulation. If its thin you can lose a lot of heat through there. You can get an audit to see how well (or not) insulated your house is. Probably worth the cost of your house is older.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I disagree with that statement about CFL bulbs. There is no "waste" energy, when the goal is heating the house. CFL efficiency claims are based on the assumption that heat is an unwanted byproduct.

An incandescent bulb that takes in for instance 100 W, has only two outputs: about 5 W of light energy (which then becomes heat) + 95 W of heat energy. If the goal is to get light and heating, then the incandescent bulb is 100% efficient. And it's much safer, and cheaper, than a CFL bulb.

The only reasons I can think of for preferring a CFL bulb is if
a) you don't want any light-based heating (from the top of the room)
b) your electricity costs are much higher than gas heating costs
c) you can get CFL bulbs for free


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Don't push these energy saving ideas too far. One frozen pipe disaster can easily wipe out all your savings.

(speaking from personal experience)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

If your electricity is cheap, than halogens are a great option. Very bright and powerful heating.

I lived in an apartment that had somewhat unreliable heating (the building's heating did not work well). Electricity was included with the rent. I had halogen lamps, at 300 W each, plus a desktop computer also about 300 W. Plenty of heating to keep my apartment cozy.

In contrast, if I had installed those "efficient' CFL bulbs everywhere, my apartment would have been freezing. I would have had to buy several small portable electric heaters.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

andrewf said:


> I was thinking about that, but it's not a financial consideration.


True. But one could argue that down the road a secondary health condition from the indoor / outdoor air pollutants could be costly.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

If your heating method is inefficient or unreliable than yes, incandescent or halogen may help. But if you have a decent heating system you will generally be better off using that for heat and using more efficient lighting to provide lighting only. Incandescents are better heaters than lights. Yet a proper heating system will provide better results (and efficiency) than a bulb high up with no means for dispersing the heat.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jcgd: I agree


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## Koala (Jan 27, 2012)

Synergy said:


> True. But one could argue that down the road a secondary health condition from the indoor / outdoor air pollutants could be costly.


It doesn't even have to be down the road. Allergy meds and inhalers aren't cheap. It could also cause an air purifier to use more energy.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Koala said:


> It doesn't even have to be down the road. Allergy meds and inhalers aren't cheap. It could also cause an air purifier to use more energy.


Agreed. Hidden costs from attempted frugality. If you're lucky enough to have acreage with access to your own wood, you'd have to factor in the energy required to chop, split, pile, etc. and the costs associated with the wear and tare on the body. Higher grocery bills and visits to the physical therapist could add up. On the other hand the exercise could lower ones blood pressure, prevent the risk of stroke, etc.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

Here is another idea. Can't imagine using this but I find it kind of interesting.

http://www.offgridworld.com/heat-your-home-with-240-recycled-aluminum-cans/


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Neat. My dad and i developed something like this when I was in high school. However, rather than directly heating your house it was designed to simply pre-heat your water in your hot water tank. I think the payoff period was something like 8 months over a winter.

When water is coming into you house a degree or two above freezing and you can preheat it even to 30-40C before entering your hot water tank it can make a lot of difference for a family of 5.

I got an A!


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Spidey said:


> Here is another idea. Can't imagine using this but I find it kind of interesting.
> 
> http://www.offgridworld.com/heat-your-home-with-240-recycled-aluminum-cans/


Ah, the popcan furnace. I recall a fellow selling these on the internet quite a few years back. Lots of DIY projects plastered all over the web.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

We are not fans of CFL bulbs for a number of reasons.
In the past month we've acquired what should serve as a 10-15year supply of 40-60-100 incandescents for our home needs.
Look for the house with the warm glow.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Synergy said:


> Agreed. Hidden costs from attempted frugality. If you're lucky enough to have acreage with access to your own wood, you'd have to factor in the energy required to chop, split, pile, etc. and the costs associated with the wear and tare on the body. Higher grocery bills and visits to the physical therapist could add up. On the other hand the exercise could lower ones blood pressure, prevent the risk of stroke, etc.


Wood fires rock- they smell great, look great, and are pleasurable in many ways including the exercise to chop wood. Wear and tear on the body? Our bodies evolved to do lots of intense physical activity.

And the thing about heat with incandescents is only applicable in the colder months- what about the rest of the year? Should we be changing bulbs when we set our clocks for DST?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

_"And the thing about heat with incandescents is only applicable in the colder months- what about the rest of the year? Should we be changing bulbs when we set our clocks for DST?"_ 
Where we live the colder months happen to be when we need the lights on anyway upon getting up or going to bed since sunrise-sunset is 8:30am-4:30am in Dec. During the day they're not so much needed (home is a 4-level split walk out).
On the other hand in June we have sunrise-sunset 5:30am-10:00pm and mostly the lights never go on.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spidey said:


> http://www.secretsofthefed.com/heat-room-15-cents-day-video/
> 
> I don't know if this works but it looks pretty neat.


I'm experimenting with this idea for the next ice storm, whenever that may be. Of course, the candles used you can't buy for 15c anymore...as a matter of fact, the
ones I bought from the dollar store earlier this week, cost $2 each + tax. ($2.26)..so the government eats the 15c a day, that they claim it costs to heat a room.
But putting the cost of the clay pots aside, and the bolt/washers (for the double pot design), it is still an economical idea..but in Canada, I would have to say it
cost $2.26 a day for each candle used up. 

Of course, when you are cold and hungry in an ice storm, cost doesn't matter anymore does it?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

After Ottawa's close call in this past ice storm, I am seriously thinking of investing in one of those portable 1500watt gas generators. 

However, I have been viewing some Youtube ideas on beer can alcohol heaters that you can boil water and paint can/ all metal coffee can heaters where you stuff in a roll of toilet paper to absorb the alcohol and light it for an open flame that should burn for hours. Apparently, with 70% isopropyl alcohol (CTC or the drug stores), there is virtually no carbon monoxide, so
like the wax candles, it makes sense to have these as standby. 

I Also made a 12volt light with a 1141 automotive (21cp) light for the washroom...This is a simple device with a light bulb soldered to a lamp cord with a couple of small battery alligator clips that you can hook to a spare car battery..if you happen to have one..or an older battery that will still take a charge. Rechargable flashlights are great, or even the one that run off alkaline batteries,
but in a prolonged power outage, those will eventually go out. 
The light bulb uses 1.6amps and on a large car battery it will light for a few nights if you have a switch on the lamp cord and use it sparingly.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

carverman said:


> Of course, the candles used you can't buy for 15c anymore...as a matter of fact, the
> ones I bought from the dollar store earlier this week, cost $2 each + tax. ($2.26)..so the government eats the 15c a day, that they claim it costs to heat a room.


They are 4c per candle at IKEA. http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/50097995/

We tried this during the power outage and it seemed to help a bit. We didn't have the right pots, but we made do with what we had.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> They are 4c per candle at IKEA. http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/50097995/
> 
> We tried this during the power outage and it seemed to help a bit. We didn't have the right pots, but we made do with what we had.


Thanks for the tip. We are going to get that. 100 candles for $3.99..can't beat that!

We are going to get the clay pots at Home Hardware too, as they have a 10 inch and and 8 inch clay pots, and we can get the bolts and nut there. 

Anxious to try out this emergency heater to see how long the tea candles work. With 4 tea candles under each 10 inch pot, it should get quite
toasty.
It's great to have lots of people on this forum with great suggestions.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Synergy said:


> Ah, the popcan furnace. I recall a fellow selling these on the internet quite a few years back. Lots of DIY projects plastered all over the web.


Yes, lots of ideas on Youtube..$1 aluminum drink bottles, pop cans...cut with a hacksaw, drill 6 or 8 holes in the outer container, and put the top part of the pot can or drink bottle inverted into the bottom part. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGdJPZXU-Ts

Drill 6 to 8 ..1/16 inch holes in the bottom part (but not with the top part inserted), fill with isopropyl or methyl hydrate (wood alcohol), light it, 
and in about 6 minutes or so, you can boil a small pot on the makeshift stove to make a cup of instant coffee or a teabag tea cup. 
Add some dried soup mix to the hot water and you have a hot soup you can enjoy in the candle light while waiting for the power to come back on. 

As they say..if you plan ahead and prepare (for the next one) ...you can weather it for a few hours.. (my survival kit will include)
1. Terracotta tea candle warmer.
2. Minature alcohol stove to boil water
3. 12 volt battery operated lights
4. Candles in glass for the areas like kitchen or washroom


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Spudd said:


> We tried this during the power outage and it seemed to help a bit. We didn't have the right pots, but we made do with what we had.


Spudd can u elaborate?

(to carverman) so glad u are back & full of marvellous ideas about how individuals can prepare for emergencies. That's the key i think. What can we learn from this so the experience is less toxic next time it happens?

after the montreal ice storm last decade i had all these ideas about community co-generation (co-gen) gas installations that produce electricitiy. I thought that many small cities with a bit of spare land could host them. They'd foster a lot of local autonomy.

at the other end of the scale, re the flower pots. Carver how are you planning to use the nuts & bolts?

i also find myself wondering if increasing or decreasing the volume of space between the flower pots makes any difference. Would a 6" pot inside a 10" pot generate more or less warmth than an 8" pot inside the same 10" pot?

one indelible conclusion from the montreal ice storm: multiple heat sources are best. We had a gas stove so could cook easily. But the furnace required a spark from a transformer to start, so it failed.

best of all was the gas-fired water heater, with its old-fashioned pilot light that worked, as opposed to an electronic ignition which would have quit with the power outage. It was the hot baths that saved the day, along with the relatively merciful winter temperatures outside which hovered around freezing, therefore pipes inside the house did not risk to burst.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> after the montreal ice storm last decade i had all these ideas about community co-generation (co-gen) gas installations that produce electricitiy. * I thought that many small cities with a bit of spare land could host them*. They'd foster a lot of local autonomy.


Not going to happen. The Province and their electrical grid are not going to allow generating for free. The grid connection infrastructure would cost hundreds of thousands for this freebie style of gas generation.



> at the other end of the scale, re the flower pots. Carver how are you planning to use the nuts & bolts?


According to the youtube demo..you take a 5.5 inch long 1/2 diameter bolt and put a large flat washer on it.
1. Insert bolt with washer into hole in bottom of large clay pot.
2. Take another large flat washer (they are called "fender washers") and put that on the threaded bolt so that the washer lands on the bottom of the large clay pot, (turned upside down). 
Then take the appropriate 1/2" diameter nut, tighten the bolt and washers to form a support post for the SECOND SMALLER CLAY POT.
3. slide another large washer on the bolt and then put the smaller clay pot inside the larger one. The nut installed should allow for about a half inch air space between the two pots. 
4. Put another flat washer on the inside of the smaller clay pot and the last nut and finger tighten only in order not to crack the terra cotta clay pot.

Put the mechanically joined pots on either 3 bricks or a square metal pan and slide 3 or so tea candles underneath so that the tea candles are burning inside the two clay pots. 



> i also find myself wondering if increasing or decreasing the volume of space between the flower pots makes any difference. Would a 6" pot inside a 10" pot generate more or less warmth than an 8" pot inside the same 10" pot?


I'm going for a 10inch and an 8 inch pot. The larger the heat radiating surface, the more heat will be radiated from the larger pot. The smaller pot is for heat absorption from the burning candles and the approximate 1/2 air space between the two pots probably acts as a heat sink for heat absorption..which the larger pot surface will then radiate to the room. 



> one indelible conclusion from the montreal ice storm: multiple heat sources are best. We had a gas stove so could cook easily. But the furnace required a spark from a transformer to start, so it failed.


This is the problem with gas furnaces..and the same problem I would have, if Ottawa ever had another prolonged outage experienced in the ice storm in 1998. 
I have been thinking of buying a 1500 watt portable generator sometime in the New Year when they go on sale, that I can place in the open air in my back yard covered partially with a wooden cover to keep the freezing rain and ice off it. The sides have to be open. 
In order to run the gas furnace on a portable gas generator..IT MUST BE ISOLATED FROM THE POWER GRID..IN CASE THE POWER COMES BACK ON SUDDENLY.
If you don't isolate, the phase difference between the utility power sinusoidal sine wave (120VAC) and the gas generator which is NOT synchronized in any way to the electrical panel and grid will result in (probably) SOME damage to the generator, the furnace control board and even the utility power transformer...BIG EXPENSIVE REPAIR BILL.
IF you want to run your gas furnace off a portable generator in an emergency condition, you need to install a disconnect switch at the 120volt ac feed to your furnace.
IE: switch down.....FURNACE OPERATES OFF POWER GRID
switch up (disconnect)....furnace operates off gas generator.
However the disconnect switch, and extra house wiring should be run to an external weatherproof box on the outside of the house, so then you can plug in the heavy duty 14 guage extension cord to the outdoor "generator only" power plug box. The box should have a twist-lock connector in it and the special power cord the matching twist-lok connector (available at specialty electrical stores). The other end of the heavy duty extension cord will be a standard 3 prong plug that fits into the single outlet on the 1500 watt gas generator. That should be enough to run the furnace circuit board, ignitor and of course the circulating fan. 



> best of all was the gas-fired water heater, with its old-fashioned pilot light that worked, as opposed to an electronic ignition which would have quit with the power outage. It was the hot baths that saved the day, along with the relatively merciful winter temperatures outside which hovered around freezing, therefore pipes inside the house did not risk to burst.


That's what I have. I will never install one of these forced draft (motor) hot water tanks..because if the power is off, it doesn't work..and all you have is just the hot water in the tank.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> Spudd can u elaborate?


Well, we had the bread tin, and we had some flower pots, but the flower pots wouldn't fit inside one another and still leave a space, unfortunately. So we set up the bread tin with a flower pot over top, and separately, a flower pot upside-down on its saucer with a few candles on the saucer.

The room seemed a couple of degrees warmer than the rest of the house after it had been going for a few hours.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> Well, we had the bread tin, and we had some flower pots, but the flower pots wouldn't fit inside one another and still leave a space, unfortunately. So we set up the bread tin with a flower pot over top, and separately, a* flower pot upside-down on its saucer with a few candles on the saucer.*


Hmmm..not sure about how effective that would be. Candles need oxygen and some kind of updraft to heat the terra cotta. 
The two pot idea should work quite well, but  of course you need to get these before you need to use them in an emergency situation,
and have them bolted to gether and ready for use.

Note: Scroll down to 'CANDLE POWERED AIR HEATER" demo.

http://www.ask.com/youtube?q=heater+without+electricity&v=LUIzefTSZJA&qsrc=472


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Leaving aside the safety aspects of heating with candles, why would Canadians take heating advice from a Brit when:
a) Interior design temperature in bedrooms in the UK is 17-19 degrees C, (compared to 22C in all living spaces in Canada)
b) exterior design temperature is ~-5C, compared to -25C to -35 C in Canada, depending on location;
c) published studies have shown that a large proportion (if not a majority) of homes in UK do not meet the recommended interior design temperatures, either due to age of construction or because inhabitants cannot afford to turn the thermostat up.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Not sure what you are getting at with Canadian winter temps vs British winter temps and why it is necessary to even think about insulation.
I have now this terra cotta two pot makeshift heater built now using a 10 inch and 8 inch pot inside the larger. I have the 100 tea candles available at Ikea.
Now going to experiment with three tea candles to see how long they burn, how high the temperature of the outside terra cotta planter gets and how long it remains reasonably hot after the candles burn out. There is a metal sheet under the candles in any case, and I am not going to leave the candles unattended and *neither should anyone trying this makeshift heater. * 

In the last Ottawa ice storm (1998) the outside temp was around -1 to +1 where the ice formed on the branches. Of course it did go down to -10 a couple days or so after the ice storm passed through, but that's another issue. 
I have one of these makeshift heaters to be used in my furnace room to (hopefully) keep the water pipes from freezing..if the outside temp
goes down to the point (-10c) where there is danger of the furnance room downstairs (furnace wont't run in a power outage) going below freezing.

Yes, I know that running the cold water taps (on trickle) will also prevent freezing of the pipes. That is my only concern downstairs .


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

carverman said:


> Not sure what you are getting at with Canadian winter temps vs British winter temps and why it is necessary to even think about insulation.
> ....


The effectiveness of the proposed heating method will be affected by the temperature differences and insulation levels.

The Utube video referenced by the OP is from the UK. The author was not promoting it as an "emergency measure" only but as a means to save money. Fire Officials in the UK have publicly condemned it. http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/LatestNewsReleases_Concernoverflowerpotheater.asp#.UsBEB5vwpX4

The UK has already had a lot of fire deaths caused by the fad of people burning tea lights for "atmosphere". Encouraging more people to do this as a substitute for safe heating is just going to kill more. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnCNW4BBUSA


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

re fire/explosions: carverman you did say you would be monitoring & babysitting the candle/flowerpot system very closely, no?

but then you mentioned you are planning the contraption for the basement furnace room! there's no way anybody can sit all day all night in his basement furnace room, babysitting a couple of tea lights flickering inside a flower pot. Especially not during a hydro outage emergency.

if i were to try tealight flowerpot & co, i'd only leave it burning in a room where i was present every minute. Never alone in a basement.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> re fire/explosions: carverman you did say you would be monitoring & babysitting the candle/flowerpot system very closely, no?
> 
> but then you mentioned you are planning the contraption for the basement furnace room! there's no way anybody can sit all day all night in his basement furnace room, babysitting a couple of tea lights flickering inside a flower pot. Especially not during a hydro outage emergency.
> 
> if i were to try tealight flowerpot & co, i'd only leave it burning in a room where i was present every minute. Never alone in a basement.


It should be fine if set up on a cement surface away from combustibles, and as long as there are no children/pets running around that could cause an accident. Obviously there's no 100% guarantee nothing will go wrong, but there's no guarantee that any type of heater won't malfunction and cause a fire.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

nathan79 said:


> It should be fine if set up on a cement surface away from combustibles, and as long as there are no children/pets running around that could cause an accident. Obviously there's no 100% guarantee nothing will go wrong, but there's no guarantee that any type of heater won't malfunction and cause a fire.


These are tea candles, I also have candles in glass containers. I have a big fire extinguisher and a smoke detector and a carbon monoxide detector in my furnace room/combo woodworking shop. 
The 3 tea candles/clay pots will 3 feet off the cement floor on a aluminium table router top on an aluminium plate.The clay pots will be on 3 (4) cement bricks. 

The tea candles are in aluminium containers and when they burn down, they go out. I have no kids and my cat won't bother with them because the metal table is too high. Paraffin wax candles and alcohol burners don't generate any carbon monoxide and very clean burning. 

This is a TEST that we are doing tomorrow. My tenant downstairs will check the burn every hour and record it. Yesterday we tested the alcohol burners
and how long it take to boil 1 cup of water (12 mins) and 2 cups (for soup) (25 mins) of cold tap water. 

I think we will be ok....thanks to everyone for worrying about me. 

Maybe I should have a Ottawa firefighter standing by with a firehose? (Joke)


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> re fire/explosions: carverman you did say you would be monitoring & babysitting the candle/flowerpot system very closely, no?
> 
> but then you mentioned you are planning the contraption for the basement furnace room! there's no way anybody can sit all day all night in his basement furnace room, babysitting a couple of tea lights flickering inside a flower pot. Especially not during a hydro outage emergency.
> if i were to try tealight flowerpot & co, i'd only leave it burning in a room where i was present every minute. Never alone in a basement.


Thanks for your considerate thinking HP.

I Tried the alcohol burners, even spilled some fuel on the cement floor accidently. No explosive fumes...no explosions and the water tank with the pilot light flame was right next to the spilled alcohol. Smoke detector (in basement) didn't go off, the carbon monoxide detector in furnace room didn't go off.....
so no excitement and a pretty boring test for us...we actually got to boil 1 cup and 2 cups of cold tap water. 

Tomorrow , being -12c here in Ottawa, we do the clay pot heater and document that as well and I will report on the results here.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OK; I'm reporting my findings on the double clay pot heater .....with 5 tea lights ( 100 per package purchased from Ikea).
10 inch and 8 inch pot bolted together on 3 bricks with candles inside on an aluminum plate to reflect.

Outside temp -18c steady.
Inside room temperature furnace room, not well insulated with a cement floor (heat sinks) = 65.5 F.

Started the candles at 11:30am (each tea candle burns for 3.5 hrs. Burning finished at 3.30 pm (approx) 
Starting temp of outside of flower pot: 20C or 68F (digital thermometer wasn't that accurate..so we went to a mercury bulb on a metal scale and rubbe banded it to the outside clay pot.

(Pot temperature measured on the outside of the outer clay pot)
Burn for 30 min: temp 27C
Burn for 1 hr : temp 35C
Burn for 1.5hrs: temp 38C
Burn for 3hrsL temp 42 C
Candles burned out after that and needed to be changed if we wanted to continue. but we concluded the experiment with the 5 tea candles for today.

*Furnace, (which has a thermostat control in the basement, didn't run at all for the 3.5 hrs of the test!)*...room temp stayed constant around 68F and the outside temp was -16 this aft. 
Conclusion: 5 candles are enough to keep the pipes from freezing but not enough to feel that much radiant warmth from the makeshift clay pot heater at -18C..but at -1c ..maybe.
If we were to run this heater for 24 hrs, we would need about 6 to 7 candle changes (35 candles used up out of the 100 in the package.

Tomorrow (Dec 31st) we will run the test with 10 candles to see what the rise in temperatures will be with 10. 

Youtube video is telling us that each tea candle is equivalent to the heat of a 40 watt electric heater. so if that is true then 5 candles x 40watts = 200watts and 10 candles x 40 watts = 400 watts of heat.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Based on your first test results (5 candles), for every half an hour, the temperature rose 3 to 4 degrees, that's pretty quick. It will be interesting just high the temperature goes up to with 10 candles ... tomorrow.

Re "*If we were to run this heater for 24 hrs, we would need about 6 to 7 candle changes* (35 candles used up out of the 100 in the package." ... no big deal if you're bunkering down, not going anywhere.

Just a question - would 10 candles produce more smoke? or where does that smoke from the candles go, I'm trying to picture it.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Based on your first test results (5 candles), for every half an hour, the temperature rose 3 to 4 degrees, that's pretty quick. It will be interesting just high the temperature goes up to with 10 candles ... tomorrow.
> 
> Re "*If we were to run this heater for 24 hrs, we would need about 6 to 7 candle changes* (35 candles used up out of the 100 in the package." ... no big deal if you're bunkering down, not going anywhere.
> 
> Just a question - would 10 candles produce more smoke? or where does that smoke from the candles go, I'm trying to picture it.


We did the 10 candle experiement yesterday between 12:30 pm and 5pm. (I had the roofers show up in -18c weather to shovel off my flat mansard roof. Didn't think they would do that so close to NY but they did...great company to deal with.)

Ok, we light 10 tea paraffin candles (from Ikea) inside the double clay warmer. The temp rise was much faster with 10 and within 30 mins it was warm to the touch. Within one hour, it was HOT to the touch.
The digital thermometer on top of the big clay pot settled at 45C. My oven thermometer on the head of the bolt was at 75C. (The metal will always be hotter than clay...which has a more constant heat absorption)
45C = 113F 75C = 167F. 

In the youtube video demo using the double clay pot room warmer he is showing 165F after 25 mins on the digital thermometer which he is hold on the top where the head of the big bolt is. I suspect he was actually reading the
head of the bolt with the digital thermometer which will always store more and give off more heat than the sides of the terra cotta which would be closer to around 45c to 50c. 

The 10 paraffin candles burning under the pots didn't produce any smoke..they are very clean burning. There IS NO Smoke..just heat energy from the flames..hard to believe isn't it.
The carbon monoxide detector did not go off. The pot stayed too hot for about 3.5 hours to hold your hand on it.
Outside temp was around -18c, my furnace room is NOT insulated very well below ground level and has a concrete floor (these absorb heat very well), however in the 4 hr test, the furnace only came on once yesterday.

So we have burned at total of 15 candles in the two tests out of the 100 we got at Ikea. 
5 candles gave us about 4 hr burn and so did the 10. 
*The remaining tea candles in the package (85) if we used at the rate of 5 per hour = 17 burns at 4 hrs per burn=68 hrs of SINGLE room heat at say 68F. *
That's almost 3 continuous days of a power outage. Of course you would have to set an alarm timer to wake you up in the middle of the night to refill and relight. 

btw, The pot gets very hot, so you need SOME KIND of hand protection ,like the" ove' glove" or a pair of oven mitts to remove it off the 3 bricks, that is if you don't want the pot to cool down first. 
Not a big drawback, but something to consider. Even at 10 tea lights per 4 hr burn, the cost of the heat source is 4cents per candle x 10 or 40cents. 

This is the demo on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzKbFzUEWkA

Contrary to one of the comments in this youtube demo is saying, the clay pot heater is a radiant heater. While it may not have enough energy to warm up a room that has already cooled down to 10C (50F),
IMO, it will act as radiant heat source "buffer" to *replace slow heat lost in a reasonably well insulated room at 68F(20c) *, provided of course, that the *outside temp is around the freezing mark as in an ice storm*..
It wont be very good at outside temps of -20c or even colder, but ice storms generally don't cause the outside temp to be that cold. 

IMO, it is still better than no heat source in a prolonged 24->48 hr outage, BUT of course like any candle open flame, extreme caution has to be maintained not to have any combustibles come in contact with the candles underneath. 

Friday, we are going to do the last test using an alcohol burner instead of the candles, using methyl hydrate, which burns smokeless and odorless and with no carbon monoxide that my CO detector can detect.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Thanks for the test results of this 10 candles powered heater - so an additional 5 candles settled at 45c (based on your digital thermometer - is this the maximum detectable temperature?) which is about 3 degrees more than the 5 candles power source. I think it is abit more than that given it was "hot" to touch after 3 hours and that the bolt is the hottest spot - perhaps putting a small pot of water on top of the bolt (ensure no tipping over) can make use to warm up water or just to cover this hot spot?



> btw, The pot gets very hot, so you need SOME KIND of hand protection ,like the" ove' glove" or a pair of oven mitts to remove it off the 3 bricks, that is if you don't want the pot to cool down first. Not a big drawback, but something to consider. Even at 10 tea lights per 4 hr burn, the cost of the heat source is 4cents per candle x 10 or 40cents


 ... I'm thinking about putting the candles in some sort of sliding tray so one doesn't even need to touch the pot heater.

But overall, I think it's a cheap, dependable, "temporary", "indoor" radiant heater so can't wait for the methyl hydrate version results ... Friday. :encouragement:

PS: Did the snow removal guys come in to warm up? If so, what did they say? Warm and toastier than outside ... I bet. :biggrin:


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