# Parking money after Tangerine/PCF promotions end



## gibor365

Just curious where you planning to keep your cash after Tangerine 3% and PCF 2.6% promotions end? 
Regular rates in both sux ...just 0.8% on HISA, even People Trust gives only 1.45% ... Also both Tang and PCF may have new promo only on new money ....
Tangerine, after promotion ends, usually offers special GIC offer at 2% for 1 year ... maybe one of the options to lock some money.....


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## peterk

Back into CDF for me @ 1.5%. Going to start pulling monies out of Tangerine tomorrow.


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## gibor365

peterk said:


> Back into CDF for me @ 1.5%. Going to start pulling monies out of Tangerine tomorrow.


Why so early? My 3% promo until Dec 20.....

Oh oh ... just check CIBC and they have "Limited time offer: earn 1.75%* interest on new deposits when your balance is $5,000 or more." until Feb 29 ... it's very likely that I'll move all my cash there and will be waiting for Tang or PCF promotions


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## peterk

Nov. 30th for me.

I think I got the regular 3% promo and not the special 3% promo that you had to ask for or get invited to?


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## gibor365

peterk said:


> Nov. 30th for me.
> 
> I think I got the regular 3% promo and not the special 3% promo that you had to ask for or get invited to?


I just called in and they gave me 3% for 6 months ... it ends Dec 20


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## AMABILE

thanks gibor on the heads up on cibc
i have a HUGE amount with tangerine
@ 3% ending dec 20- but i believe
that they will extend or provide a
new promotion to keep me as a 
high worth customer.


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## gibor365

AMABILE said:


> thanks gibor on the heads up on cibc
> i have a HUGE amount with tangerine
> @ 3% ending dec 20- but i believe
> that they will extend or provide a
> new promotion to keep me as a
> high worth customer.


I don't know what amount you have... I have around 200K and don't think they gonna extend this promotion ... after previous promotions , I was talking to Tang managers and in best case they offered me GIC, but than interest was less than PT was offering just for HISA.
In any case, if you will be able to negotiate new promotion, please let me know....
My problem that on Dec 19 we're going to Cuba and I won't be able to talk to Tangerine until we come back.... so if I will leave money there, I will be losing more than $5 daily comparing to moving to CIBC


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## AMABILE

500k


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## Itchy54

My 3% offer is good until late December but we are also leaving for a holiday and won't be able (willing actually) to move it around until we get home in mid January. I will move mine to Hubert financial at 1.8% until new deals come open. They have a quarterly term deposit, total one year duration that starts at 1.9% in the first quarter and goes up from there. You can withdraw money at the end of each quarter with no penalty. Average interest for the entire year is 2.05.


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## AMABILE

gibor and itchy - can you not call tangerine from abroad @ their # 1 888 826-4374


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## mrPPincer

Was planning to move it to Hubert @1.8% regular rate, 100% insured by the Deposit Guarantee Corporation of Manitoba (no 100K limit), but just checked and found some new competition..

There's the Zag Bank promo to hold you over until PCF and Tangerine fire up their next promos.
https://www.zagbank.ca/FinePrint/Fall2015

I might open an account with them.
They are cidc insured. Works for me, I only keep about 100K in cash atm (which actually is a lot for me, but maybe not so much compared to other CMFers).


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## gibor365

AMABILE said:


> gibor and itchy - can you not call tangerine from abroad @ their # 1 888 826-4374


from Cuba ?!  1 888 are mostly only NA free numbers


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## gibor365

> There's the Zag Bank promo to hold you over until PCF and Tangerine fire up their next promos.


Looks interesting :0 , but I already have too many accounts: Tangerine, CIBC, PT and PCF .... not sure if i want to open another one in Zag...

btw, did you open already?! Just wondering how simple it is and if you can easily link it to CIBC? ...a dn that there is no any fees


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## mrPPincer

Found out about them just now, they are a small bank that was bought by the Desjarden's group, still trying to find the fine print about fees and such..


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## Itchy54

I will wait until we get home. I just won't do banking out of country.
I looked into zag bank but saw some bad reviews. Maybe they are getting better as I see them advertising a lot. They could just as easily drop their rates in a month too. I dread opening yet another account. Maybe if the rates are still good in the new year.....

Their website (zag)is not the best to navigate. They mention "no unnecessary fees" but that is vague. Looks like they link to other accounts.


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## mrPPincer

Itchy54 said:


> They mention "no unnecessary fees" but that is vague.


Yeah I saw that too, but still no page that shows fees.

Looks like maybe I may have to start the process of opening an account to see the terms & conditions.. I hate it when they do that.

They are still too new to have made it onto the services chart over at 
https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/comparison-of-services-offered-by-high-interest-savings-banks/
although they are on the rate comparison chart 
https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/


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## AMABILE

hey gibor - just called tangerine
when in cuba, just call them on their
INTERNATIONAL COLLECT CALL # 416 758-3139


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## mrPPincer

https://www.zagbank.ca/Security/ElectronicServicesTermsandConditions


> Fees and Limits
> 
> Transactions you complete though our Electronic Services may be subject to fees from Zag or its partners and/or subsidiaries. Zag will notify you of the nature of the fees that you will be charged either during the transaction or in the Product Agreement, giving you the option to complete the transaction or not. We do not have any control over third-party fees.
> 
> Fees may change at any time. By confirming a transaction through our Electronic Services, you accept these fees and authorize Zag to deduct said fees from your account(s). Some transactions may also be subject to daily withdrawal limits. If you would like to review and change your withdrawal limits, please contact Client Services at 1-844-ZAG-BANK (1-844-924-2265) and speak with a Zag Representative. Our fees and limits are detailed at ZagBank.ca.


They say "Our fees and limits are detailed at ZagBank.ca'', right on the zagbankdotca site.. looks like they could use the services of a website design professional lol

.. also definitely don't like the idea of any daily withdrawal limit on electronic transfers.


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## gibor365

AMABILE said:


> hey gibor - just called tangerine
> when in cuba, just call them on their
> INTERNATIONAL COLLECT CALL # 416 758-3139


Thanks  , however when in Cuba , I'm drunk 24/7 , so doubt I'll have time /willingness to call Tangerine


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## peterk

Zag looks good to me. Think I'll open an account next week and test it out.


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## gibor365

peterk said:


> Zag looks good to me. Think I'll open an account next week and test it out.


please let us know who it's going on


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## peterk

Account setup was easy and all online. Took less than 10 minutes. The internet magically pulled some history from my SIN number I guess. To verify my identity I had to confirm an old address from like 8 years ago. No idea how it got this info, especially at midnight on a Friday lol

Had to write out a cheque, and then take a photo of the cheque with my phone. Transfer should take place in a couple days.


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## scorpion_ca

peterk said:


> No idea how it got this info, especially at midnight on a Friday lol


I think they are linked with TransUnion.....it generates questions based on your credit file.


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## peterk

doth mine eyes deceive me??

The zag bank link up thread now says:

"Which is why we're offering 2.5% interest on all Zag Savings accounts until March 20, 2016 if you reach a minimum balance of $1,000 into your Zag Savings account by November 27, 2015 (midnight EST)."

I swear yesterday this said "by December 31, 2015".

Navigating through their homepage I can find NO reference to a 2.5% promotion anywhere... What the HELL???

What is going on with these shady online bank websites??? Retroactively changing promotions (ZAG), dubiously unclear fine print with misleading interest rates published (PCF) and weird *** invite-only promotions, unless you call, but then it's slightly different promotion (Tangerine).

Are these fucking BANKS or what that we're transferring hundreds of thousands of dollars around between??? I have more confidence in shopping from Beyondtherack.com than I do in these screwed up websites posing as banks!


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## mrPPincer

^looks like zag is indeed changing their promo on the fly, 

but I did crunch the numbers on a PCF promo in one of the threads here, and found that they are not misleading, they do pay the annualized rate they advertise, even though it's paid at the end of the promo; I found is was the correct amount annualized, to the penny, so in other words, no compounding was lost, except possibly the few days between when after the promo was over and the day the interest landed in the account.

Overall I agree perterk, the tangerine thing was kinda wierd too, but I'm happy because I phoned in and got the special six-month deal


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## mrPPincer

The most recent Zag promo, where they said we had until Dec 31 to register.. lasted only one week before they changed it lol


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## mrPPincer

I see nothing on the Zag site about a promo at all now, now the rate is 0.80%, looks like I will be moving to Hubert after all when the Tangerine promo is done.


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## peterk

I actually recall a few weeks ago seeing a Zag commercial on TV for the 2.5%, the first I've heard of Zag. When I went to the website, the date that the TV promotion expired was the day before. So they were actually advertising on TV for a promotion that had already ended. Now last week it said December 31st, now this week it says Nov 27, and that it's ended. Holy hell.

Just tried to login to Zag to see if I can cancel my transaction and close the account. Login doesn't work. lol


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## gibor365

mrPPincer said:


> I see nothing on the Zag site about a promo at all now, now the rate is 0.80%, looks like I will be moving to Hubert after all when the Tangerine promo is done.


 I will be moving to CIBC ... it's just 1.75%, but it's a solid bank without Zaq tricks


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## Beaver101

Is Zag a bank? If so, given the sleezy tactic of changing rates on a fly despite the advertised good-to-date, would it not warrant a complaint to the bank ombudsman or such? Food for thought.


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## cougar

I am sure everyone is aware of CDIC insurance limits of $100,000 per account or joint account at each bank for insurable amounts in several different categories(eg individual savings, joint savings, TFSA, RRSP, RESP etc). We just recently noticed that we were over this on one account at Peoples and switched some GIC's into a joint account. Not that I think the bank is about to fail, but if insurance protection is there we decided we should take advantage of it. We had been transferring a bit too much to individual accounts at Peoples to take advantage of the interest rates.


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## gibor365

In PT I try never have more than 100K on the acoount, but in big banks like CIBC, on smaller one that belong to big banks like Tangerine (BNS) or PCF (CIBC), I don't mind to have more than 100K on singe account


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## AMABILE

hey gibor, when are you transferring your
money from tangerine to cibc ?


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## gibor365

OK, I'm not transferring to CIBC... Tangerine offered me new promo 2% for 180 days  better than 1.75% in CIBC


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## 0xCC

I saw over on RedFlagDeals that people were getting that 2% offer. How did you get it gibor?

Oh, and is it on the full balance or new deposits only?

I wonder if Tangerine will do the same thing they did last time. People that get the offer before the new year will get the high interest rate on the full balance and then on Jan 1, they will offer the 2% rate to everyone on new deposits only.


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## gibor365

On both, existing balance and new deposits....
I asked to talk to manager, who did it for me. 
idk if it depends on amount you currently have there ...I have more than 200K....


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## Ihatetaxes

I got 2% until June 7th on both my account and my wife's. Just call and ask for a "retention promo" rate and mention Zag bank. I also got a promo rate on my business account which has never happened before. Only 1.5% but beats 0.5%.


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## gibor365

> I got 2% until June 7th on both my account and my wife's. Just call and ask for a "retention promo" rate and mention Zag bank


 I didn't even mentioned any other bank.... right away after i got transfered to manager , he said about 2%....
Now if PCF gonna do better promo, will move money there ....


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## peterk

Zag Bank account finally set up after all the shenanigans. Says 2.5% on the account info page. Only putting 30k in there for now as I don't fully trust it...


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## humble_pie

tangerine seems determined not to reveal this, but it appears that the bank has very recently developed a house tool that the representatives are now using to generate what's called a "retention rate" for existing clients whose hi-interest promotions are ending these days.

reps enter certain client details - they're not willing to state which details - into the tool. Obviously dollar amount of the account whose promotion is to be renewed has got to be a critical factor.

the tool spits out an interest rate which the rep relays by phone. A current useful thumbnail is indeed 2% for 6 months, with flexibility of the account, ie clients are free to withdraw & also to deposit additional amounts at any time, which lattter will also earn the 2% rate during the 6 months of the offer. However the 2% rate may be only for larger accounts.

an interesting feature of the tool is that it is obviously running off money-centre bank rates, which is why the reps tell clients that the spat-out interest offer "must" be accepted during that same phone call.

although true money-centre rates adjust every minute, my guess is that there may be smoothing algos programmed into the tangerine tool.

another interesting feature is that most of the representatives are, so far, doing a noticeably poor job of explaining this retention tool. It's almost as if they want to conceal its existence.

yet it was developed by tangerine management after the chaos of the last big promotion in june 2015, which saw clients bombarding the phone call centre & repesentatives having to appeal so frequently to live human supervisors for so many promotion eligibility decisions.

all this uproar has been stopped by *the tool.* Clients will get a take-it-or-leave-it offer from the machine. There will be no appeal to managers.

Addition: for new clients, tangerine is offering 2.40%. Also for new clients, one sees ads for PC Financial offering 2.60% to new clients.


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## gibor365

now it's also huge volume of calls as all those june promotions ends in December .... waited about 30 min on the phone.... my problem that promo 3% ends on Dec 20, and we headimg to Cuba on 19th.... so only manager could've give us 2%


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## AMABILE

thanks gibor - i just received 2% for 180 days ( june 13 )
from the representative, after telling him that i would move
my money to cibc @ 1.75%
i had to take it to-day ( not dec 20) as a retention promotion.


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## mrPPincer

was gonna wait till monday, as my 3% promo ends sunday night, but turns out I gotta do a job starting monday, so, maybe I'll call in tomorrow morning, thanks for the heads up gibor


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## mrPPincer

Just got off the phone with them, (was on hold for 30 minutes, so they must be quite busy right now), asked for the 180-day 2% deal, she checked for me and came back and offered 1.6% for 3 months, I said no thanks, she said I'm welcome to call back and try again in a couple days when my current 3% deal ends, so I'll do that.

I only have 80K with them at the moment, maybe that's why, or maybe they have enough cash on the books for now, with other people phoning in before me.


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## humble_pie

mrPPincer said:


> asked for the 180-day 2% deal, she checked for me and came back and offered 1.6% for 3 months, I said no thanks, she said I'm welcome to call back and try again in a couple days when my current 3% deal ends, so I'll do that.
> 
> I only have 80K with them at the moment, maybe that's why, or maybe they have enough cash on the books for now, with other people phoning in before me.



i believe we're glimpsing - from our side - a little bit more about how the tangerine retention tool was built. It observes account amounts, that's for sure. What i don't know is whether the tool knows account histories, ie whether it can distinguish how stable account balances have historically been. Certainly from now on, it will be accumulating account stability profiles.

put another way, it's obvious that tangerine management is aiming to retain hi-value clients & prevent the kind of promotion-seeking skipping that's been going on the past couple of years.

what will happen now? what will the tool do? will 2 fundamental tiers of tangerine clients develop, a) the loyals who are offered better rates in corner suites & b) the transients who are offered basic accommodation only?

fun to watch each:


EDIT: another factor that could have slightly reduced today's offerings would have been interest rates, ie did short-term rates (canadian treasury bill yields) drop today. I've mentioned previously that i believe the tangerine retention tool is running on money centre rates from bank treasury floors, so there may have been a slight drop from prior 2 days.


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## gibor365

> I only have 80K with them at the moment, maybe that's why, or maybe they have enough cash on the books for now, with other people phoning in before me.


 My mom has less than 80K and she got 2% for 180 days (even though I was talking to Tangerine supervisor)


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## Karen

Scotiabank has a special GIC rate in effect now, but there is a warning on their website that it is only in effect for a short period. They call it a holiday GIC and it pays 2% locked in for 29 months. Not great, but better than most of their GICs in recent months.


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## DividendLuvr

Just called Tangerine and asked for a retention promotion. They offered me 1.2% for a year. I asked for 2% for 6 months and advised that I knew they were offering this to other customers. Also advised that I would transfer all funds out immediately if they could not offer this to me. Secured the 2% rate. Total account balances just under $20k but stable and growing.


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## birdman

Just opened and acct with BNS and tsfrd wifes RSP's for the 2% rate. They also have a 1.5% savings account rate for balances over $5,000. as long as the funds are left in for 90 days. Looks interesting. I normally use Achieva for savings and they pay 1.7%.


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## gibor365

> They call it a holiday GIC and it pays 2% locked in for 29 months. Not great, but better than most of their GICs in recent months.


 I'm going to buy some GIC in Peoples Trust. 2.05% for 1 year and 2.3% for 2 years


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## RBull

Thanks for the heads up on Tangerine. I called a day or so after last promo ended and mentioned the retention rate which they promptly offered- 2% for 6mths. Not great but a lot more than the *.8*% otherwise. I've got to look seriously at some of the GIC offers.


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## 0xCC

RBull said:


> Thanks for the heads up on Tangerine. I called a day or so after last promo ended and mentioned the retention rate which they promptly offered- 2% for 6mths. Not great but a lot more than the .08% otherwise. I've got to look seriously at some of the GIC offers.


I think you meant that 2% is better than *0.80%*.

I have had a hard time figuring out the GIC market in comparison to these special rates. From what I have seen I can't get better than 2.3% or so on a 5 year GIC (Tangerine's 5 year rate seems to be 1.9% right now) To me it isn't worth the small amount of extra interest to have the cash locked up for 5 years. I'm not totally clear on what happens with cashable GICs though, do you lose all accrued interest if you cash it in? Looking at Tangerine's GIC fine print it says that the interest is calculated daily and paid at maturity. For that privilege you get a 0.10% reduction in the interest rate over their current special offer (although for 5 years instead of 6 months).


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## gibor365

Peoples Trust offers 2.45% for 5 years GIC, but it's too long for me , wil be buying 2 y GIC at 2.3%


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## RBull

0xCC said:


> *I think you meant that 2% is better than 0.80%.*
> 
> I have had a hard time figuring out the GIC market in comparison to these special rates. From what I have seen I can't get better than 2.3% or so on a 5 year GIC (Tangerine's 5 year rate seems to be 1.9% right now) To me it isn't worth the small amount of extra interest to have the cash locked up for 5 years. I'm not totally clear on what happens with cashable GICs though, do you lose all accrued interest if you cash it in? Looking at Tangerine's GIC fine print it says that the interest is calculated daily and paid at maturity. For that privilege you get a 0.10% reduction in the interest rate over their current special offer (although for 5 years instead of 6 months).


Lol, yes. Good to see you figured it out. 

I hear you on the GIC market options available. I'm looking at 5 yr rates for registered money and 1-2 yr rates for unregistered and better alternative to HISA promos. Years ago I would never have thought I would be chasing ~2% savings rates.


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## DividendLuvr

I'm very happy to shop around for whatever HISA promo is going to pay me the maximum rate rather than lock myself into GIC's. Yes, it's a bit of work every 6-12 months, but no different from the work I already do each year to get the best deal on insurance and internet (although that is now taken care of, as Rogers has locked in my price point for 8 years so I don't have to keep calling them). If 30 minutes on the phone is going to get me an extra 1-2% per year, I'm good with that. It's amazing what you can get simply by stating your case and asking, politely but assertively.


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## 0xCC

PC Financial now has a 2.5% special rate for new money deposited *to registered accounts* from Jan 1, 2016 to March 31, 2016. That beats Tangerine's 2% but it is only for 3 months instead of 6 and it is only on new deposits and only for TFSA and RRSP accounts.

Details here:
https://www.txn.banking.pcfinancial.../web/60446476100/604_Terms_and_conditions.pdf

I got a sign-up message when I logged into my account on their online banking website.

Edit: It also looks like they have included TFSA and RRSP accounts in the special offer this time around.

Edit2: The offer is only for registered accounts. Non-registered accounts still get the 0.80% "regular" rate.


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## gibor365

0xCC said:


> PC Financial now has a 2.5% special rate for new money deposited from Jan 1, 2016 to March 31, 2016. That beats Tangerine's 2% but it is only for 3 months instead of 6 and it is only on new deposits.
> 
> Details here:
> https://www.txn.banking.pcfinancial.../web/60446476100/604_Terms_and_conditions.pdf
> 
> I got a sign-up message when I logged into my account on their online banking website.
> 
> Edit: It also looks like they have included TFSA and RRSP accounts in the special offer this time around.


My understanding that this offer is only for RRSP and TFSA.... not for non-registered accounts

_Between January 1 and March 31, 2016 you can enrol to earn 2.5%* interest on new deposits made into these TFSA & RRSP savings accounts:

Tax-Free Interest PlusTM Savings Account
Interest PlusTM RRSP_


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## 0xCC

Ah, it looks like you are correct. I just looked at the offer quickly and didn't notice that it was only for registered accounts.

I updated my previous post...


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## mrPPincer

^yep, just phoned in and it's only for registered products


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## gibor365

mrPPincer said:


> ^yep, just phoned in and it's only for registered products


thanks for update  as I also wanted to call them....


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## mrPPincer

wasn't worth the time on hold listening to them say"your call is important to us" every 5 seconds for a half an hour :apathy:
If I would have refreshed this page I could of hung up the phone


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## 0xCC

Sorry for wasting half an hour of your time.


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## mrPPincer

no problem 

Actually I did have other business to take care of there as well.

Last month I transferred some money in and wrote a cheque to TDDI for a purchase.
The money took longer than usual to get there and although it looks like the money went in before the cheque came out, they dinged me $3 interest for it (could have been worse if they'd dinged me for NSF).

I asked for a one-time reversal, and they agreed, so the time wasn't completely wasted 

Also applied for overdraft protection, but it looks like the limit will be too low to be of any use if something similar happens.

Next time I'll use a chequing acct with a bank that recognizes the incoming funds more quickly than PCF does.


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## Barwelle

Zag is running a promo (or extending an old one?) - 2.5% interest in their HISA for all account types (non-registered, TFSA, RRSP) until June 1, 2016. Good for new and existing accounts, for new and existing accounts.

Much better deal than Tangerine's current 0.80% rate on existing plus 2.0% or whatever* on new deposits. I've usually resisted hopping around for small increases in interest but I think I'll actually go for this.

They're also having a promo for 2-year GICs at 2.5%, again all account types.

https://www.zagbank.ca/FinePrint/PromotionWinter2016

*seems there's a range of offers from Tangerine between 1.6% and 2.4% but it only applies to new deposits as far as I've seen.


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## gibor365

I got 6 mo 2% from Tangerine for both existing and new money... Don't see sense to open account in Zag that looks as fishy place... If you want 2.% on registered account, PCF is much better choice...
For GIC, I'm going with 2 years 2.35% in PT


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## ONoob

Moved out of Tangerine to CT Financial (1.5%) when my 3% promo ended before Christmas. Called back after Christmas and they only offer 2% for 2 months. Didn't bother!


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## gibor365

ONoob said:


> Moved out of Tangerine to CT Financial (1.5%) when my 3% promo ended before Christmas. Called back after Christmas and they only offer 2% for 2 months. Didn't bother!


Strange that thet give you 2% offer only for 2 months.... we and my mom got 2% for 6months... in your case I would move $$$ to CIBC who gives 1.75%


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## ONoob

gibor said:


> Strange that thet give you 2% offer only for 2 months.... we and my mom got 2% for 6months... in your case I would move $$$ to CIBC who gives 1.75%


I guess it depends on who you get on the line at time, I've heard people offered different rate other than the 2% .
I took a look at CIBC, I think you get 1.75% for amount above $5000 till Feb 29. I am not going to keep moving $$$ around for .25% for 2 months. Too lazy for that, but thanks for the suggestion.


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## peterk

Just got a Tangerine offer in my inbox last week of 2.34% until March 31st. Transferring fund in now...


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## 0xCC

I have heard of people getting a 2.5% offer (not that 0.16% is enough to be concerned about).

My wife and I had a strange experience trying to get the 2% for 6 months offer with Tangerine.

Between Christmas and New Year's I used the "Chat with us" button when I was logged into my Tangerine account (I was traveling and I didn't want to call in). I asked if I could have the 2% for 6 month offer. The CSR asked if I would be moving my money elsewhere if I didn't get the 2% offer. I said yes (obviously). My 3% for 180 days offer expired on Christmas so I hadn't moved any of my cash out of Tangerine yet, the total I had with Tangerine was mid-5 figures. The CSR asked me to wait for a moment and a couple of minutes later confirmed that they could give me the 2% for 6 months rate.

After New Year's my wife used the "Chat with us" button and asked about getting the same 2% for 6 months that I got. She didn't get the 3% for 180 days offer that I did back in July, she only got the 3% until the end of November offer so when PC Financial had the 2.5% until the end of the year on new deposits until the end of October she moved most of her cash over to PC Financial. The CSR told her that she was not eligible for any special offers. She asked if she transferred some money into her account if she would be eligible. The CSR said that that the offers were based on a variety of factors and that adding more cash to her account would not help her get a better rate at this time but she should pay attention to emails coming out in the next week or so. Since my wife had most of her money out of PC Financial and not making any interest at all she decided to do a 5-figure transfer to Tangerine and once that transfer was complete see what offer she could get. So she waited a day for the cash to show up in her Tangerine account and then did a chat again. This time she was offered 1.6% for 3 months. She asked if she would be able to get 2% for 180 days if she transferred more money in. The CSR asked her to hold on while she checked something out and after a few minutes the CSR came back and said that since I had the 2% offer and since we shared a home address she could get the 2% offer as well.

Really strange experience overall but I think it was worth the extra 15-20 minutes or so to get the extra 0.4% or 1.2% interest for 3-6 months.


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## peterk

Yes, very strange, silly, frustrating, unprofessional and un-bank-like in my opinion. Unfortunately the generous interest paid on my BMO "premium rate" saving account :rolleyes2: is a whopping 0.05%, so I'm stuck leapfrogging my money around all these trashy online banks at their whim to try and make an extra little bit per month.


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## Barwelle

peterk, was this 2.34% on new money only, or new and existing?


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## AltaRed

peterk said:


> Unfortunately the generous interest paid on my BMO "premium rate" saving account :rolleyes2: is a whopping 0.05%, so I'm stuck leapfrogging my money around all these trashy online banks at their whim to try and make an extra little bit per month.


Then you have not seen BMO's Builder Savings Account which I believe currently pays 1.3% as long as you add at least $200 each month, i.e. grow the account. I am guessing each of the big Five have something similar. Obviously not as good as the 'trashy' online banks but better than the plain vanilla ones.


----------



## GreatLaker

Barwelle said:


> peterk, was this 2.34% on new money only, or new and existing?


I also got an offer from Tangerine for 2.34% on new deposits until March 31. Just after I opened an account with Oaken for 1.75% and moved almost all of my funds out of Tangerine. I did not get an email, but it is a message on the My Accounts page. I won't be immediately transferring the money back from Oaken to Tangerine, but have new funds that I will deposit in Tangerine.

"Offer rate will apply to net new deposits to Applicable Accounts each time the sum of the daily balances in each Applicable Account Type, to a maximum of $500,000 per Applicable Account Type, exceeds the sum of Applicable Account Type balances as at January 5, 2016."


----------



## Barwelle

GreatLaker hopefully you had moved your money out before Jan 5?



gibor said:


> I got 6 mo 2% from Tangerine for both existing and new money... Don't see sense to open account in Zag that looks as fishy place...


Zag is CDIC insured, and ownership traces back to Desjardins. Sounds fine to me.


----------



## peterk

Just on new money Barwelle, the standard "funds above the balance on a certain date" fine print. I've never seen a Tangerine special promotion that was anything else, actually.

I didn't realize that AltaRed! I guess it's better than nothing. Just kind of miffed that something called a "premium rate savings account" which used to pay something like 1% interest a few year ago (after '08) has somehow just poof vanished away as an interest bearing savings account over the last few year. Last I checked it was paying 0.25%. I stopped using it long ago when it dropped below 0.75%. Now it's inexplicably 0.05%.

I wonder how many retirees with a lot of cash just sitting in a high interest savings account at BMO (premium rate account) noticed that their money isn't making any interest anymore like the bank rep told them it was many years ago. Did they get the memo that Premium Rate is out and Building Savings is in? I wonder if other big banks do this as well. Seem pretty trashy too, to me. :biggrin:


----------



## Barwelle

peterk said:


> Just on new money Barwelle, the standard "funds above the balance on a certain date" fine print. I've never seen a Tangerine special promotion that was anything else, actually.


agreed. Gibor says the promo he got applies to existing money... gibor is it possible you misread the terms? I just went through tangerine chat and they were pretty clear about not having a promo like that.


----------



## 0xCC

The 2% for 180 days that I talked about was for existing and new deposits. I think that the 2.5% for 3 month offer is only for new deposits.


----------



## humble_pie

it's interesting how rapidly Tangerine has developed a suite of electronic tools that their representatives are using these days to determine the terms to be offered to each customer.

less than a year ago, tangerine was offering higher promotions by e-mail via a process of random selection. Many clients protested. There were far too many referrals to managers. Confusion reigned.

presto, the tools. The one used for the current 2% retention offer at tangerine is known as the Super Spot Rate Tool. In goes a client's profile. Out comes a rate for a period of time, up to 6 months. The procedure is fairly black & white, although posts in this thread do indicate that some tweaking can be done.

what goes into the pinkly-glowing tangerine SSRT blender? data such as size of account, longevity of account, stability of account, plus the CORRA, i imagine. This latter acronym is the Canadian Overnight Repo Rate Average. It used to be published daily by the Bank of Canada, is now published by thomson reuters. CORRA fluctuates more frequently than the key BOC rate itself. There are no doubt other ultra-short-term interest rate feeds for professional use, presumably one or more of these is part of the tangerine tool.

ie the recipe for tangerine smoothie is you, your personal history plus a heaping tablespoon of short-term/overnight interest rates, all pulsed together in the big orange blender.

evidently there are also Tangerine tools for customers whose histories show that they stray frequently. IE these customers have held deposits at tangerine in the past, but they have also rotated those deposits out to other institutions that were offering higher promo rates.

something is suggesting to me that peterk, with his 2.34 tangerine promo rate for 3 months, may have locked into one of these promos-with-conditions. The basic rate for new tangerine accounts is 2.40%, there has to be a reason for the Tool to offer peterk 2.34%.

AFAIK tangerine is leading the pack with its sophisticated suite of profiling Tools. But surely other online savings banks will develop similar systems. These might lead to the creation, eventually, of different classes of short-term cash savers. Paid the highest will be larger accounts with faithful histories. Paid the lowest will be accounts that jump frequently from institution to institution.


----------



## Barwelle

0xCC said:


> The 2% for 180 days that I talked about was for existing and new deposits.


Hmm I guess I'll have to give it another shot. Thanks.


----------



## humble_pie

Barwelle said:


> agreed. Gibor says the promo he got applies to existing money... gibor is it possible you misread the terms? I just went through tangerine chat and they were pretty clear about not having a promo like that.




afaik existing clients with value profiles will be offered 2%, although the rate might vary slightly due to interest rate fluctuations on the day.

afaik new clients at tangerine are to be offered 2.40%.

clients with prior histories who have frequently come & gone - ie rotated their accounts out of tangerine towards other promos, then seeking to rotate back in for a "new" account promo - will perhaps not be offered the 2.40% for new accounts.

long-term, the purpose of the new tangerine super spot rate tool is to a) identify & retain higher value clients, & b) attract new clients.


----------



## peterk

To be honest I don't know why they would want to offer me anything above the base rate. For the last few years I have always rotated out of Tangerine the moment the promo rates expired. Only bringing money back in for a new promo.

Perhaps it's my previous history? I've had an ING account for 10-11 year now, ever since my lawn mowing days. I remember having a 3% regular savings account with them then and also bought some 1-year GICs @ 4.5% back in 2005. That was my college fund from all the mowed lawns and construction work... had about 10k saved up by the end of high school with ING.


----------



## humble_pie

^^

exactly. Is why i thought the orange SSRT tool was offering you a rate a teensy tad below the 2.40% offered to truly brand-new tangerine clients.

we'll never, ever know exactly how the tangerine profiling tool operates or what criteria it uses. It appears that, in your case, your loyal history for more than a decade was only nicked - ever so slightly - by having flown around some with the deposits.


----------



## NorthernRaven

peterk said:


> Just on new money Barwelle, the standard "funds above the balance on a certain date" fine print. I've never seen a Tangerine special promotion that was anything else, actually.


Actually, not quite accurate. I had some money over at Tangerine in their last promo which ended Nov 30. Unsolicited, I got an email Dec 2 indicating I had been given a 2.4% bonus rate through Feb 29 (3 months), on both new and existing amounts, as long as my balance remained at or above what it had been as of Nov 30.


----------



## AltaRed

peterk said:


> I wonder how many retirees with a lot of cash just sitting in a high interest savings account at BMO (premium rate account) noticed that their money isn't making any interest anymore like the bank rep told them it was many years ago. Did they get the memo that Premium Rate is out and Building Savings is in? I wonder if other big banks do this as well. Seem pretty trashy too, to me. :biggrin:


Many I suspect are not aware. Does seem trashy IF that nice teller does not tell that nice senior there are better options available. Scotia did a somewhat similar thing. A few years back, they had a Power Savings account that paid well (as a promo) and then it went to ****. I moved money out. Now Scotia has a Momentum Savings account that pays 1.5% provided there is a minimum balance of $5k and there are no withdrawals for 90 days. These banks are all inventing products when they are looking for money BUT then don't tell anyone when that 'new' product turns to ****, to be replaced by yet something else. One has to stay on top of prevailing rates and account types.


----------



## peterk

Yeah that's some pretty shady account churning, I'll call it, by the big banks. From an online bank I wouldn't be surprised or upset. Nobody opened a Tangerine account by accident, they were seeking something out, so buyer beware. But from the big 5 banks to invalidate hundreds of thousands or millions of peoples savings account by phasing it out and phasing in a new account over a number of years, that's pretty rotten.


----------



## humble_pie

AltaRed said:


> ... One has to stay on top of prevailing rates and account types.



so true. I briefly had a BMO Savings Builder account during their introductory promo period, which IIRC was last march through 30 june/15, at which moment everybody was lured away by the 3% offer then coming from tangerine.

i'm not heavily into these inter-bank capers so i didn't WD the savings from BMO - in order to transfer the funds to tangerine - until sometime around july 12th. When next i looked at the BMO SB account, it had paid zip piffle in interest at the end of july, even though it had held an amount comfortably in the 6 figures from 1 jul/15 to 12 jul/15.

eventually it dawned on me that i'd failed to make the mandatory $200 per month deposit for the month of june that Savings Builder requires. Thus my neglected account had defaulted back to the base interest rate & i'd lost the promotional extra interest rate layers. The base rate had been something like .80%. This was what had generated the zip piffle.

another thing to slightly complain about re the big banks: they're not as expertly set up to handle online customers as is a granddaddy of the internet like tangerine. At both bmo & td, i find that if one asks anything out of the ordinary at the call centres, the representatives promptly tell the customer to visit the branch. 

of course, the branches don't want this transient business either. The only solution is for the big banks to invest more $$ in training their online staff, thus leaving the branches to survive on their hi-value clients plus whoever walks in off the street.

par contre, the appealing thing about tangerine is that they've always been an online bank. Their staff seem able to look after a much wider range of customer queries & needs.


----------



## gibor365

> The 2% for 180 days that I talked about was for existing and new deposits.


 Exactly what i got.... I talked to manager over the phone and he setup 2% and said it's for new and existing money


----------



## Itchy54

Didn't see these posts until just now, but earlier today I called tangerine to let them know I was moving my money to other banks due to the interest rates and asked if they had any customer retention rates. I immediately got the 2% for six months on existing and new deposits. I left my money there, that was easy.


----------



## gibor365

Just finished live chat with tangerine... and got confirmation that 2% also applies on existing money.... also asked about 2.43% on new deposits, rep said that ppl who got 2.43% on new $, get regular 0.8% on existing...
so my offer is better for me


----------



## gibor365

Was anyone able to open account in Equitable Bank for 3% HISA? 
I tried to fill out application, but got error "Sorry, we're currently having difficulties with our service. Please try again in a few minutes."


----------



## Kim

From reading the thread it sounds like people have multiple banking accounts. Did you have to get credit checks done every time you opened a new account. Which leads to my next question ...doesn't that negatively effect your credit score? Do you close them once the promotion ends and you move on to the next deal? Only to re-apply when they have another promotion?


----------



## NorthKC

It's been my experience the banks don't do credit checks for personal banking accounts but they do for business accounts. If you're also applying for credits at the bank, they do the credit check then.


----------



## 0xCC

These are deposit accounts, not credit accounts so I don't think they trigger any credit checks. Personally I only have Tangerine and PC Financial accounts and I opened them many years ago, so I'm not really concerned about credit report impacts (if any).


----------



## AltaRed

Kim said:


> From reading the thread it sounds like people have multiple banking accounts. Did you have to get credit checks done every time you opened a new account. Which leads to my next question ...doesn't that negatively effect your credit score? Do you close them once the promotion ends and you move on to the next deal? Only to re-apply when they have another promotion?


I believe accounts of this nature are 'soft' checks for verification/validation and do not show up on credit reports (and thus no effect on credit score). I've kept the accounts open....for now in the event another promotion comes along. Most have 'no minimum balance' which means theoretically you can have zero funds in it, but I always leave a dollar or two. With computer technology these days, it costs nothing for the company to administer such accounts. OTOH, it would be a PITA for someone's executor to deal with all this mess......so I tend to avoid proliferation of accounts.

Example: I am just now opening a Zag account. I will close my PT account for good since they've done nothing lately to compete.


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## RBull

I read about the 3% in the financial post this am. Equitable bank pays only 1.3%. 

It's their online bank division -EQ Bank that is paying 3% right now on HISAs.


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## gibor365

> doesn't that negatively effect your credit score


 credit score is our last concern  We paid our mortgage long time ago and not planning to take any loans ... paying always hard cash


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## Barwelle

gibor said:


> Was anyone able to open account in Equitable Bank for 3% HISA?
> I tried to fill out application, but got error "Sorry, we're currently having difficulties with our service. Please try again in a few minutes."


I opened one last night without any issues.


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## gibor365

Barwelle said:


> I opened one last night without any issues.


Did you transfer money already?


----------



## Barwelle

I deposited a cheque via their mobile app. I can log in, but there is a 5-day waiting period before they activate the account.


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## AMABILE

when i called tangerine to-day, i was advised to call back
on tuesday- i'm sure they will match or offer a promotion
to stem the flow of money to equitable.


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## mrPPincer

^interesting.. looking forward see what happens


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## gibor365

right now I'm with Tang rep on live chat..... she cannot match 3%, now some manager should call me back to discuss....


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## gibor365

Barwelle said:


> I deposited a cheque via their mobile app. I can log in, but there is a 5-day waiting period before they activate the account.


Can I just mail cheque? don't use mobile apps....


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## Barwelle

Yes you can mail the cheque. I used the app to save time and postage, that's all.


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## mymoney

*Cheque photo does not work on iPad tablet*



Barwelle said:


> Yes you can mail the cheque. I used the app to save time and postage, that's all.


Agent said phones work but tablets have problems.


----------



## Synergy

Thanks for the heads up the 3% EQ Bank deal. I'll be contacting tangerine tomorrow. I doubt they will match the 3% rate with no limited time period. I'm happy to switch. After pulling out over 100K from tangerine back in 2015 it was like pulling teeth to get the 2% deal. All their case by case deals and computer algorithms are starting to piss me off a little (pardon my french!).


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## Synergy

Are there any fees to transfer TFSA money from Tangerine to PCF? Are we able to play these promo's with TFSA's?


----------



## gibor365

Synergy said:


> Are there any fees to transfer TFSA money from Tangerine to PCF? Are we able to play these promo's with TFSA's?


No fees.... but PCF has a limited promo offer of 2.5%, so until you move money, promo will expire  ... I'm just keeping TFSA in PT with 2% on HISA and 2.2% on GIC 2 years...

btw, looks like PT believe that BoC will cut interest rates next week (like it gonna help dying Canada )....2 y interest went doen from 2.35 to 2.2%


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## Synergy

Thanks gibor, interesting times. I'm sure glad I got a good cash position, decent US allocation and many years of earnings, savings and investing ahead of me.


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## gibor365

> interesting times.


 I'd say tough times....


----------



## birdman

frase said:


> Just opened and acct with BNS and tsfrd wifes RSP's for the 2% rate. They also have a 1.5% savings account rate for balances over $5,000. as long as the funds are left in for 90 days. Looks interesting. I normally use Achieva for savings and they pay 1.7%.


Just as a matter of information I advise that I applied to transfer about 220,000. to the BNS for the 2% rate and the advisor committed to holding the rate until the transfer came in. Shortly thereafter I asked if they would hold the rate if I transfer an additonal $150,000. and again they said they would. This is also confirmed in writing. Well, there was a documentation error by the BNS and the day we were going to correct it the rate was discontinued. They called me at home 30 mins before our appointment time and advised that the rate was no longer valid and there was nothing they could do. They did offer to sell me some mutual funds. The holding of the rate was confirmed by email by the BNS. I escalated the situation to the Office of the President of the BNS who apologized but after investigation said there was nothing they could do and that the employee should not have committed to holding the rate. Certainly no more BNS for me and now I have 3 choices: File a complaint with the ombudsman, go to small claims court, or forget about it. The interest rate differential between the 2% and current rates would amount to over $7500.00. Any thoughts?


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## gibor365

> The interest rate differential between the 2% and current rates would amount to over $7500.00. Any thoughts?


 just forget about it. Call Tangerine and negotiate 2% on HISA and open EQ bank account with 3% interest


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## Spudd

Or if it's a joint account, go to Zag for 2.5%.


----------



## dogleg

It really is none of my business but I believe some trust Tangerine a lot more than I do. I had my account hacked into and money stolen also when you close or move funds from one account to another all on-line access to those records disappear. No more Tangerine for me.


----------



## Eclectic12

dogleg said:


> It really is none of my business but I believe some trust Tangerine a lot more than I do.
> I had my account hacked into and money stolen ...


From what the bank told my co-worker when his account was cleaned out, it's at least one account per branch per day for the big five so unless Tangerine refused to replace it, I'm not sure there's a lot of difference to be had by changing institutions.

Until they all stop using the "which costs more" model, I suspect there won't be a lot of improvement.


I can recall thinking it was silly that a crook in the US could go to an office supply store, get the forms for buying a property, research an empty lot, fill out the forms and within two weeks, be registered as owning the property. When the actual owner found out then set about fixing it, the reversal took one to three years to complete.

Then articles started showing up where the same or similar happened here in Canada.




dogleg said:


> ... also when you close or move funds from one account to another all on-line access to those records disappear. No more Tangerine for me.


Will *any* financial institution leave on-line access to records available *after* an account closure?

I've always thought I'd have to have my own copy.


Cheers


----------



## gibor365

> also when you close or move funds from one account to another all on-line access to those records disappear


 I believe it's the same for all big banks


----------



## AltaRed

I believe every financial institution closes off online access once an account is closed. Never close an account until you download all the historical monthly statements.


----------



## dogleg

Not in investors edge it doesn't. If you move funds from one account to another and that account goes to zero you can still access it and review its activity.


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## AltaRed

dogleg said:


> Not in investors edge it doesn't. If you move funds from one account to another and that account goes to zero you can still access it and review its activity.


I should have said, leaving the institution entirely. As long as you have one account in an institution, it will show zero balances in dormant accounts.


----------



## gibor365

Not in TD or TDW, in order to redeem my son RESP money, I transfer $$ from my daughter RESP and then redeem from my son RESP, when 1 time I redeem All, my son RESP was closed and I couldn't see it at all (I was just removed), so I needed to go to branch to open new account and wait several days until it was activated.
Also when I transferred out my RRSP account from TDW to IE, I couldn't even access TDW website even though had 4-5 accounts in TD


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## AltaRed

In your last statement, TD is not TDW. So if you close your last account in TDW, you lose all access to TDW, but not TD. They are different companies but for convenience will show all accounts from all companies on one page.

Another example. I happen to have a few bank accounts with Royal Bank (Visa and an estate bank account) and an RBC DI RRSP that is in the process of being transferred out. I fully expect that once the RBC DI account is transferred out, I will no longer have access to the RBC DI website but will of course still have access to Royal Bank.


----------



## mrPPincer

Yeah it sucks but luckily I left a few stocks in my non-r acct with TDDI when I moved all the rest (reg, tfsa, non-r) to CIBC IE, so I still have access to my records in the non-r acct for when I finally get around to doing my taxes.

Pretty sure I left something there for that reason, don't remember for sure right now, but what I do know is that access to my online records with TDDI for the TFSA and RSP vanished immediately, even though I still had a running account with TDDI.

Which just goes to show that TDDI doesn't give a flying frig about customer support once you leave the door.


----------



## gibor365

> Which just goes to show that TDDI doesn't give a flying frig about customer support once you leave the door.


 True! AFAIR when I transferred out my RRSP from TDW to CIBC IE, I still should've get many dividend payments include DRIPs and 1 GIC wasn't mature, but I couldn't even login into TDW website.... I remember calling many times to TDW requesting to transfer dividend money and shares to CIBC


----------



## dogleg

Yes these banks are a piece of work. I have a managed portfolio in a CIBC TFSA. I don't want the earnings to DRIP but they won't let earnings stay in cash in the account. And they won't transfer the earnings into another TFSA with Investors Edge. So I have to withdraw them then reinvest. Go figure.


----------



## peterk

Barwelle said:


> I deposited a cheque via their mobile app. I can log in, but there is a 5-day waiting period before they activate the account.


Been almost 2 weeks for me now and it's still not processed nor the account open. I guess they got way more applications than they could handle for a 5 day turn around.


----------



## Synergy

peterk said:


> Been almost 2 weeks for me now and it's still not processed nor the account open. I guess they got way more applications than they could handle for a 5 day turn around.


Still waiting as well. I sent an email on Monday and still haven't heard back from them yet. They must be busy!


----------



## gibor365

Synergy said:


> Still waiting as well. I sent an email on Monday and still haven't heard back from them yet. They must be busy!


same here ...sent cheques last Tue


----------



## RBull

ditto.


----------



## peterk

When I log in to the EQ account it says "Thank you you're almost there!" and tells me what my account number _will be_.

I guess they're just busy.

Good thing I didn't transfer my money out of Tangerine yet nor have it all just sitting in BMO chequing making no interest!


----------



## gibor365

If they process manually tens thousands of accounts, it can take months


----------



## peterk

Update: EQ just took my cheque out yesterday. They say the account will be active 5 days after the cheque clears.


----------



## AMABILE

my cheque cleared yesterday also but
no e-mail as yet from them


----------



## Synergy

Our instincts are correct:



> We've experienced an overwhelming response over the past few weeks. Unfortunately that has led to delays as we securely bring on all our new customers. If you've opened a Savings Plus account please bear with us - ‎you'll receive your welcome email soon‎.


----------



## peterk

Hrmm. Greater than expected customers leads me to think they will implement sooner than expected reductions in their 3% savings rate... We'll have to keep an eye on this one closely.


----------



## Synergy

peterk said:


> Hrmm. Greater than expected customers leads me to think they will implement sooner than expected reductions in their 3% savings rate... We'll have to keep an eye on this one closely.


They can lose a customer just as fast as they acquired one. I'm sure they will be careful.


----------



## donald

Anybody thinking of buying Eq stock symbol
just a fad though i guess


----------



## gardner

Synergy said:


> They can lose a customer just as fast as they acquired one. I'm sure they will be careful.


Faster. I've been waiting over a week to get in. I could get out in under an hour.


----------



## NorthernRaven

peterk said:


> Hrmm. Greater than expected customers leads me to think they will implement sooner than expected reductions in their 3% savings rate... We'll have to keep an eye on this one closely.


It might just mean that the demand came earlier than they thought. So they might still eventually expect X # of customers or deposits after six months, but they thought it would take longer for the flood to start. Or they might have made a simple mistake in the rate that their staff could process applications, or there could be a glitch in the process (for instance unexpected problems clearing imaged cheques).

If they are seeing big multiples of their projections they might alter whatever their internal plans are, but this sounds more like an early wave of popularity and logistical issues. They've likely decided they can afford a certain amount of interest costs in building up the customer base, and they won't want to take the PR hit of sinking the rate before they planned unless it is causing a significant hit.

For comparison, Zag Bank appears to have built up an initial $200 million in unregistered HISA deposits in six months - it certainly seems reasonable that EQ can do something similar with 3%. Let's say EQ assumed they'd ramp up to $200 million in six months, after which they were going to reduce to 2.5%. If they actually get there in 5 months, and hit $250 million after six months, that extra $50 million in the sixth month would cost them about 20K in extra interest, probably not worth changing their plans.

Of course, we don't know their plans, which may be somewhat contingent anyway. Zag has gone with a 2.5% rate from their June 2015 launch for an entire year at least, to the end of their current promotion in June 2016. I'd be surprised if EQ dropped their rate before that, at least below 2.5% or so. After that, it depends how aggressive they want to be and what the promo market is doing. The interesting thing about Zag is that the 2.5% is clearly shown as a promo, with a base rate of 0.8% - Tangerine/ING levels. Presumably Zag is going to keep doing promos for quite some time (perhaps not quite as high, or only new money), since I can't see them attracting much enough new business at those rates.


----------



## Barwelle

I too am still awaiting for my EQ account to open. 2 weeks now. 

Funny thing... Earlier this month, on the 12th, I contacted Tangerine to see if I could get the 2% promo rate. When the answer was no, I moved out most of what I had there. 

Today I log in to my account... Hey guess what! I now have the 2% promo! But it's only applicable on new deposits after Jan 6th... so even if I moved those savings back, I wouldn't get the promo rate until I added more yet.


----------



## AMABILE

e q bank said i might not get a welcome e-mail
my cheque was cashed jan 27
f/u in 5 business days by logging into my account
and it will be activated when it shows my deposit


----------



## Synergy

I just received an email promo from Tangerine. 3% interest until the end of June on new deposits. Let the games continue.:biggrin:

They want some of the money back!!


----------



## NorthernRaven

From the chatter over at RFD, the emails they are sending out are giving a variety of rates (2.76%, 2.85%, 3%, 2.22%). They are obviously doing various algorithmic things with their data-mining.


----------



## mrPPincer

Lucky you Synergy 

Thanks for letting us know.
Logged in and guess what, Tangerine is offering me 2.64% until the end of June, as of today April 5th.

I guess some of us are more equal than others :chargrined:

I'm going for it anyways; might phone in to ask for the 3%.


----------



## Synergy

I don't particular like Tangerines secretive algorithms but I will take advantage of their rates.


----------



## mrPPincer

PS I didn't get an e-mail either :smilet-digitalpoint


----------



## mrPPincer

Phoned in and got a no on the 3% but she said to stay tuned because they are offering different promos with differing rates & conditions to different people, and I could be targeted in the future with and even better rate next time than my friends.

meh, 2.64% ain't bad for now.


----------



## Synergy

Try asking them what will it take to get the best rate! How much money would you like in my account, how many accounts do you want me to have, etc. Help me play your games


> Oh, I don't know sir, all I do is press a button


----------



## mrPPincer

^I'm starting to have a mild case of rate-hopper's fatigue, maybe that is part of their grand strategy :apathy:


----------



## gibor365

I also called and was told that bexause I'm on existing 2% promo until mid-June, I cannot get any otger promo with higher rate 
this ing is mafia , sticking for now with 3% EQ


----------



## Userkare

gibor said:


> I also called and was told that bexause I'm on existing 2% promo until mid-June, I cannot get any otger promo with higher rate
> this ing is mafia , sticking for now with 3% EQ


Surely, unless you've already put $100K into EQ and are nervous about exceeding CDIC limits, why even consider anybody else's pathetic 3% on new deposits for a time limited 2 or 3 month period?


----------



## AltaRed

Except I think EQ's 3% is only good for another 2-3 months as well. It isn't going to stay at that level or they will go out of business. They can't make money on essentially zero spread.


----------



## gibor365

Userkare said:


> Surely, unless you've already put $100K into EQ and are nervous about exceeding CDIC limits, why even consider anybody else's pathetic 3% on new deposits for a time limited 2 or 3 month period?


We already maxed up EQ to 200K (2 accounts) , have some GICs in PT in range 2.2-2.45%, just wanted to get higher interest on a liitle bit additional cash 



> Except I think EQ's 3% is only good for another 2-3 months as well. It isn't going to stay at that level or they will go out of business.


 very possible, but imho they will reduce rate gradually


----------



## humble_pie

AltaRed said:


> Except I think EQ's 3% is only good for another 2-3 months as well. It isn't going to stay at that level or they will go out of business. They can't make money on essentially zero spread.



there is that interview with the EQ CEO where he says they anticipate being able to continue the 3% offer for a long time.

at 3% EQ would surely benefit from their spread, which would be greater than zero. Their borrowers are mostly sub-prime, are they not? what would these borrowers be paying, 4-5-6%?

a bank operation can run a long time on metrics like that. The risk would be a financial collapse serious enough to impair the ability of the borrowers to keep paying on their loans. Even in such circumstances, EQ depositors could look to the CDIC to make whole their deposits.

would i move $$ to EQ? no, with stories like we've seen about the difficulties of opening accounts & moving funds into the bank, i think it would be prudent to wait & hear how it goes when the time comes to move $100k out of the bank . each:


----------



## NorthernRaven

AltaRed said:


> Except I think EQ's 3% is only good for another 2-3 months as well. It isn't going to stay at that level or they will go out of business. They can't make money on essentially zero spread.


While EQ's rate will undoubtedly come down (as even they admit), they have a non-prime alt mortgage business where the rates are going to be well in excess of 3%, so they can put this money to work and still make something. But they have cheaper forms of financing, and the 3% can be chalked up to marketing, and establishing a stable deposit base for the future. Doing 3% instead of 2% to start probably costs them no more than $1 million for a few months, and they spent much more than that in promotional advertising, I think.


----------



## humble_pie

mrPPincer said:


> Phoned in and got a no on the 3% but she said to stay tuned because they are offering different promos with differing rates & conditions to different people, and I could be targeted in the future with and even better rate next time than my friends.





NorthernRaven said:


> From the chatter over at RFD, the emails they are sending out are giving a variety of rates (2.76%, 2.85%, 3%, 2.22%). They are obviously doing various algorithmic things with their data-mining.




one has to admit, there is a certain rakish casino-like charm.

it's difficult to crack the house rules, but one thing we can all be sure of is that the house is going to win.


EDIT: the above quotes are about Tangerine ...


----------



## AltaRed

NorthernRaven said:


> While EQ's rate will undoubtedly come down (as even they admit), they have a non-prime alt mortgage business where the rates are going to be well in excess of 3%, so they can put this money to work and still make something. But they have cheaper forms of financing, and the 3% can be chalked up to marketing, and establishing a stable deposit base for the future. Doing 3% instead of 2% to start probably costs them no more than $1 million for a few months, and they spent much more than that in promotional advertising, I think.


I recognize their mortgage business is sub-prime at healthy interest rates, but much, if not most, of that interest rate bump is (should be) due to credit quality, is it not? Higher risk of delinquent loans is what I am getting at. Same as the difference between a AA bond and a BBB bond, no? Many can play the higher risk game for a long time and not get burned....and then Wham! It hits like a brick through a plate glass storefront.

I just don't think they can pay 3% for very long.....and they sure are not going to telegraph that in a big way. I expect them to fall to at least 2.5% aka Zag...which by the way is not promising 2.5% past June either IIRC.


----------



## NorthernRaven

humble_pie said:


> there is that interview with the EQ CEO where he says they anticipate being able to continue the 3% offer for a long time.
> 
> at 3% EQ would surely benefit from their spread, which would be greater than zero. Their borrowers are mostly sub-prime, are they not? what would these borrowers be paying, 4-5-6%?
> 
> a bank operation can run a long time on metrics like that. The risk would be a financial collapse serious enough to impair the ability of the borrowers to keep paying on their loans. Even in such circumstances, EQ depositors could look to the CDIC to make whole their deposits.
> 
> would i move $$ to EQ? no, with stories like we've seen about the difficulties of opening accounts & moving funds into the bank, i think it would be prudent to wait & hear how it goes when the time comes to move $100k out of the bank . each:


Equitable actually has a fairly significant prime mortgage line as well now - I think I remember they were each around $5-8 billion when I scanned their annual report. They've got a $150 million deposit note issue from a couple years ago they are paying 2.6% on for another year. A few hundred million at 3% until the summer or fall or whenever they drop the rate won't kill them. OSFI also shows them with a bunch of brokerage deposits costing them probably 1.3%, and $6 billion of presumably GICs.


----------



## humble_pie

^^

good on you with the details, the Raven has an eagle eye!

i suppose Equitable is fully underwriting EQ bank, though ... or is it?


----------



## NorthernRaven

humble_pie said:


> ^^
> 
> good on you with the details, the Raven has an eagle eye!
> 
> i suppose Equitable is fully underwriting EQ bank, though ... or is it?


Yup, "EQ" is just a branding thing for their retail banking - fully owned by Equitable. The Equitable name is used for the brokerage channel and deposit broker stuff. Equitable is the only legal entity for CDIC.


----------



## gibor365

> would i move $$ to EQ? no


 anyway EQ is non-eligible in Quebec :biggrin:
btw, no any problem to transferring money IN EQ (I transferred in 100K in 5 minutes) , and I didn't have any problem transferring out (even though I didn't transfer out 100K yet)


----------



## gibor365

NorthernRaven said:


> Yup, "EQ" is just a branding thing for their retail banking - fully owned by Equitable. The Equitable name is used for the brokerage channel and deposit broker stuff. Equitable is the only legal entity for CDIC.


Equitable is also big segregated funds firm, they are one of our clients


----------



## NorthernRaven

gibor said:


> Equitable is also big segregated funds firm, they are one of our clients


I think that's Equitable Life Insurance Company, not Equitable Bank. I don't believe there's any relationship between the two.


----------



## gibor365

Wow...Tangerine is so wierd :cower:
My mother-in-law opened new account, she supposed to get 2.4% promo rate for 6 months. When she logged into her account, it was written that she gets 2.4% until Feb 1, 17 even though she can deposit money only after Aug 11 when her cheque is cleared... and cheque deposit appears on Tangerine system Aug 4.
She went to chat asking why promo until Feb 1, and not Fer 4 or Feb 11, hence she cannot deposit $ until Aug 11?!
The rep said that actually she gonna get some "special" rate 3.1%, but only until Sep 30 :biggrin: 
and after Sep 30 she can get another promo rate depends on ACTIVITIES ON ACCOUNT  .... and rep doesn't know whar activities should be to get better rate.... btw, anybody has any idea about those Activities?!
I did some calculations and figured that 2.4% for 6 months is better that 3.1% for 50 days, unless her rate after Sept 30 will be bigger 2.2%, but who know what will be the rate....
When my mother in law asked why she doesn't see 3.1% promo, but sees 2.4% promo, rep said that she needs to click "directly on the account to see it". After chat ended, my mother in law loggined back and clicked and got again 2.4% :biggrin: . Ridiculous!


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> Wow...Tangerine is so wierd :cower:
> My mother-in-law opened new account, she supposed to get 2.4% promo rate for 6 months. When she logged into her account, it was written that she gets 2.4% until Feb 1, 17 even though she can deposit money only after Aug 11 when her cheque is cleared... and cheque deposit appears on Tangerine system Aug 4.


Had the same problem. Tied up my TFSA savings in the PCF checking acct for 7 days without depositing into my Tang savings acct.
The initial check that I wrote to open my acct with Tang took about 7 days to "clear"..or ensure of my identity they claim.
I had $5K tied up in "limbo" and no interest on it for 7 days. *Not happy about that
*
As a suggestion to any other forum members moving money in this new nutshell game to get higher interest.
*DO NOT OPEN A TANGERINE ACCT INITIALLY WITH MORE THAN $100.* That should be enough to establish your identity opening a new Tangerine acct.

They also freeze your funds for about 7 days on money transfers EFT as well. Not happy about that as I had $20k that sat in Limbo for 7 days. I finally was forced to call them and plead to get them to *pay daily interest at 2.4% on that 20K from the day it was taken out of my PCF checking acct. *



> She went to chat asking why promo until Feb 1, and not Fer 4 or Feb 11, hence she cannot deposit $ until Aug 11?!
> The rep said that actually she gonna get some "special" rate 3.1%, but only until Sep 30 :biggrin:


So they are playing games again with the new deposits? 3.1% for 50 days..well that sucks..they never told me about that a couple of weeks ago in July. 


> and *after Sep 30 she can get another promo rate depends on ACTIVITIES ON ACCOUNT*  .... and rep doesn't know what activities should be to get better rate.... btw, anybody has any idea about those Activities?!


What a lot of hogwash! Top secret?..just deposit yer cash with us and we can play this game of "special activities"...maybe pull your money back out? and we will try and convince you to keep it there by paying 0.5% more.
That's the way I see their "special activities"....there is no special activities with savings acct..either you leave ALL your money in the acct for a given time (6 months)...or move it somewhere else.



> I did some calculations and figured that 2.4% for 6 months is better that 3.1% for 50 days, unless her rate after Sept 30 will be bigger 2.2%, but who know what will be the rate....
> When my mother in law asked why she doesn't see 3.1% promo, but sees 2.4% promo, rep said that she needs to click "directly on the account to see it". After chat ended, my mother in law loggined back and clicked and got again 2.4% :biggrin: . Ridiculous!


They are playing games. Just call them up and tell them to pay 2.4% immediately and stop playing games..it's her money and she can move it into another bank if need be... unless they stop playing these "temporary interest increase" promotions games!


----------



## gibor365

Yesterday in the evening my mother-in-law called Tangerine and autorized me to talk . The rep confirmed that she would get 2.4% until Feb 1. I asked why another rep Darlene on chat told about 3.1% summer special until Sep 30 ... the rep said that it was mistake and he will make note to the manager about misleading info (like I care ).
Than I asked why 2.4% rate will be until Feb 1 and not Feb 11 (6mo from Aug 11 when 100$ cheque will be cleared or at least Feb 4 = 6 mo from day when cheque was cashed). The rep said that this is regular practice for everyone and nobody in the world of tangerine can change Feb 1 date . The problem is that my mother in law has big amount she transfered from abroad and it's just sitting in CIBC checking getting 0% interest.

Those "targeted promo" looks like just a roulette style random lottery.... I have Tang accout, my wife, my som, my mom ....everyone is doing completely different activities...so all of us should cover all range of possible activities, but no one got special offer ...they just continued 2% old offer..

Also rep said that $50 bonus, my mother in law and myself (she used my orange key) will get after cheque is cleared... carverman , did you get $50 bonus? I didn't


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> Yesterday in the evening my mother-in-law called Tangerine and autorized me to talk . The rep confirmed that she would get 2.4% until Feb 1. I asked why another rep Darlene on chat told about 3.1% summer special until Sep 30 ... the rep said that it was mistake and he will make note to the manager about misleading info (like I care ).
> 
> Than I asked why 2.4% rate will be until Feb 1 and not Feb 11 (6mo from Aug 11 when 100$ cheque will be cleared or at least Feb 4 = 6 mo from day when cheque was cashed). The rep said that this is regular practice for everyone and nobody in the world of tangerine can change Feb 1 date . The problem is that my mother in law has big amount she transfered from abroad and it's just sitting in CIBC checking getting 0% interest.


Yup, I hear your and your mother-in-law dis-satisfaction. Fund transfer is computerized and EFT, so they have ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, to tie up your funds for X days after you have proved your identity. Except, the only thing I can think of is that they are notifying a gov't agency to check into any funds transfer over $10k in case it happens to be money laundering by someone. I learned that if you don't want these excessive delays, always to transfer funds under $10k, that way the banks are not obligated to inform the gov't agencies.



> For transfer in the same currency and within the same country and under $10,000 USD, one business day should be the norm however the banks often advise that it could take up to three, just in the event that they need to perform checks. For large amounts, I was also informed that the branches should be notified in advance (not sure why seeing that no physical currency needs to be deposited on site however that can add a day to the time it takes if they aren't notified before).
> 
> It seems that at the end of the day, the delay is down to the Bank's due diligence policies and not a limitation of computerization.





> Those "targeted promo" looks like just a roulette style random lottery.... I have Tang accout, my wife, my son, my mom ....everyone is doing completely different activities...so all of us should cover all range of possible activities, but no one got special offer ...they just continued 2% old offer..
> 
> Also rep said that $50 bonus, my mother in law and myself (she used my orange key) will get after cheque is cleared... carverman , did you get $50 bonus? I didn't


Yes I got it. So is it their oversight that you didn't get yours? or they don't know how my true identity/acct relates to your orange key possibly? 
It's a bit bizarre in my estimation on how they do these bonuses, because if someone uses your key
to get that $50 bonus by supplying your number..... it should reflect back on you to get yours.

Perhaps you need my orange key to collect yours? PM me.


----------



## carverman

Gibor; here is my suggestion for what it's worth (FWIW) about Tangerine "inadvertently denying" your mother-in-law that 2.4% interest on money still parked in her CIBC/PCF checking acct. 

I had the same thing happen to me AFTER I HAD OPENED the Tangerine savings and TFSA accounts.

I tried to "move my money" (the command line) when you log into your Tang account from CIBC/PCF to my Savings/TFSA. 

It wouldn't let me..telling me my account was "not ready for use" or something to that effect.

I had $20K sitting in my CIBC/PCF checking acct earning 0% interest per day...bummer!
This went on for 4 or 5 days, (don't remember exactly how many days), but I was not going to just take it and let them get away with not allowing me to move that $20K into my Tangerine account where it would be earning at least 2.4% per day during their promotion.

So I gave them a call and complained. The female telephone respondent said, ok, we understand that your funds haven't been transferred and there is no interest earned, so she calculated the interest on that $20k for 6 days at 2.4% and told me the dollar figure and told me it would show up in my account a*s soon as those funds were transferred (takes up to 7 days apparently)* and they were true to their word.

When the funds were finally transferred that $6 or 7 dollars of interest showed up in my savings acct as well.

So I would suggest this..ask your mother-in-law to do the same. 

Provided her account is open already for use, and she knows the exact amount sitting in the CIBC checking acct, if online it won't let her move those funds by EFT, 

*INSIST* that Tangerine pays her the calculated interest on those funds *for the days it is sitting in limbo* and Tangerine is blocking her from moving those funds to her account. by (Move my money) .

In the "move my money" field there should be 3 accts..her CIBC checking acct and her Tangerine accts.


----------



## peterk

The 3.25% ended Sept 30 and I emptied my Tangerine accounts at the end of the month. Now I'm offered 2.23% from Oct 6 to Dec 31st so I'm moving all the money back in.

Seems like Tangerine will continue to reward disloyal interest rate hoppers.


----------



## humble_pie

peterk said:


> The 3.25% ended Sept 30 and I emptied my Tangerine accounts at the end of the month. Now I'm offered 2.23% from Oct 6 to Dec 31st so I'm moving all the money back in.
> 
> Seems like Tangerine will continue to reward disloyal interest rate hoppers.



it must be your aura

me i'm super loyal - i'm an original ING united empire loyalist grub staker - & i'm only getting 2%


----------



## AMABILE

I'm also a loyal client with a huge amount of money
only getting 2% -should i waste my time contacting 
them for the extra .23% ?- has anyone tried ?


----------



## 0xCC

This latest promotion from Tangerine is targeted and variable (and if you paid attention to the PC Financial thread I started about optimizing a joint account you would have had a hint that balances on October 4 would be used for a promotion starting October 5  ). The range of special offer interest rates seems to be from 2%-3%.

Personally my wife and I got 2.34% after we both pulled the majority of our deposits out around September 20, leaving less than $10 total in the accounts.

There have been reports of people calling in and getting their special offer rate bumped to 3%. There have also been reports of people either not getting any special offer rate at all or being denied a bump from the rate they were offered.


----------



## gibor365

AMABILE said:


> I'm also a loyal client with a huge amount of money
> only getting 2% -should i waste my time contacting
> them for the extra .23% ?- has anyone tried ?


I tried.... it's a waste of time.... transfered a;; available cash to PCF 2.25%


----------



## mrPPincer

^yep, ditto, moved 100K to PCF as soon as the account was open, a day or two after the offer.

Tried Tang with a phone call or two in the interim, no luck.

I don't understand why they do it this way, but if they want to spend the dollars on phone crews while keeping clients in the dark & on edge, that's fine, I'll watch their model with interest.

But if zero loyalty is what they're selling, I'm already their #1 customer


----------



## gibor365

mrPPincer said:


> ^yep, ditto, moved 100K to PCF as soon as the account was open, a day or two after the offer.
> 
> Tried Tang with a phone call or two in the interim, no luck.
> 
> I don't understand why they do it this way, but if they want to spend the dollars on phone crews while keeping clients in the dark & on edge, that's fine, I'll watch their model with interest.
> 
> But if zero loyalty is what they're selling, I'm already their #1 customer


I had discussion about it with one of hte Tangerine managers (Martin V.). I understood that nobody over there has any control on those "promos", except one back office department that dealing with some "algorithms"... 
And I never could've understand this logic, as myself, my son, my mom etc have accounts there that I manage,... we have completely different situations of money movement on those accounts and nobody gets rate higher than 2% for last couple of years


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> I had discussion about it with one of hte Tangerine managers (Martin V.). I understood that nobody over there has any control on those "promos", except one back office department that dealing with some "algorithms"...


Sigh! It's back to the nutshell game again for me after Jan 15th. My special promo Jul18 to Jan 15, 2017 ((6 months @2.4%) on $32K in savings and TFSA will expire then, and I'll have to be move that money back to after that back to PCF, hoping for another promotion early next year with Tang.

I'm undecided what to do..whether to just park it with Tang at 0.8% after Jan15th, or ETF back to PCF, which is easy enough to do for me.
I just hate having to do this every few months just to get a wee bit more interest on what I have in true savings.

I haven't bothered to open up a checking or any other acct with Tang because of this. 
Currently there is no Tangerine ATM close by where I live.
I prefer to write checks from just one checking acct (PCF) since my pensions and other benefits are deposited directly into that account.

it just doesn't make sense to me to open up another checking acct with Tang.


----------



## 0xCC

carverman said:


> Currently there is no Tangerine ATM close by where I live.


Is there a Scotiabank ATM close to you? Tangerine transactions at a Scotiabank ATM are free. This is what I do, I have a Scotiabank ATM less than 300m from my front door, my closest "regular" bank is about 4km away.


----------



## gibor365

> I just hate having to do this every few months just to get a wee bit more interest on what I have in true savings


 I hate it too! Mot like you....I also manage those accounts for myself, my wife, my son, my mother and my mother-in-low.... My MIL 2,4% promo expires beginning of Feb..., if they don't give her at least 2%, will move 100K to her EQ bank account


----------



## carverman

0xCC said:


> Is there a Scotiabank ATM close to you? Tangerine transactions at a Scotiabank ATM are free. This is what I do, I have a Scotiabank ATM less than 300m from my front door, my closest "regular" bank is about 4km away.


Yes, there is, within 0.6km of my house and within wheelchair distance. I called the bank, but they didn't seem to know if there is Tangerine access at their ATM. I listed all the Scotia bank branches in Ottawa on my Tang account, where there is ATM access for Tangerine customers but this particular branch is not listed as one of them. 

No use getting an ATM access card if I can't get to the branch easily that has access. 

At least with PCF, I can access the ATM in my local Loblaws or the CIBC right next to me.


----------



## Eclectic12

I'm not sure why Tangerine would negotiate only partial access to the Scotiabank ATM network. The setups I've read about in the past are all or nothing so I'd be surprised if the close Scotiabank ATM didn't work.

I'd also trust Tangerine's ATM locater more than what the local Scotiabank staff knows.


Cheers


----------



## gibor365

Eclectic12 said:


> I'm not sure why Tangerine would negotiate only partial access to the Scotiabank ATM network. The setups I've read about in the past are all or nothing so I'd be surprised if the close Scotiabank ATM didn't work.
> 
> I'd also trust Tangerine's ATM locater more than what the local Scotiabank staff knows.
> 
> 
> Cheers


It can happen. Last year I tried to use CIBC ATM for PCF card and had issues...I was told that old machines don't work with PCF cards, only new ones


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> It can happen. Last year I tried to use CIBC ATM for PCF card and had issues...I was told that old machines don't work with PCF cards, only new ones


Didn't know about that. It seems that PCF definitely has an advantage in having multiple locations of access, even in gas stations where there is a CIBC machine,
Here is an example I found online:



> Petro-Canada Gas Station
> 690 Hunt Club Road
> Ottawa, ON K1V1C3
> Location Type
> *CIBC ABM
> *
> if its a Loblaws or Loblaws affliate grocery store, they have their own PCF ATM location inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your Independent Grocers
> 2241 Riverside Drive
> Ottawa, ON K1H7X6
> Get Directions
> Location Type
> *ABM*
Click to expand...

Maybe Tangerine is too new on the scene to have made arrangements with every Scotia Bank (ATM) location, but they need to get their act together if they want
to grow. Nobody wants to drive across town to specific locations to get at their money. I only counted 15 Tangerine ATM locations in Ottawa, so far.
They don't seem to have a search engine where you can specify your postal code to find the nearest location either.

They claim over 4000 locations including convenience stores..where are these when you go to list them online by area you live in? 

They just give you a selection of cities, and when you select the city, you get the ABM locations.

If I select Ottawa, I only see 15 locations and none those are not in my area of Ottawa West/Kanata, unlike PCF.

https://secure.tangerine.ca/web/Tangerine.html?command=displayAbmLocator

I think Tangerine better soon get their act together and have more accessible ATMs in each ScotiaBank branch at least..otherwise they are just an online bank.


----------



## Eclectic12

gibor365 said:


> It can happen. Last year I tried to use CIBC ATM for PCF card and had issues...I was told that old machines don't work with PCF cards, only new ones


It sounds more like a technology issue than a contract issue. I have had own bank cards have problems where the card was issued by the source bank. 

Then too, if old machines with presumably newer ATMs can be an issue - it makes me wonder why my approximately 13+ year old PCF card has had zero issues across three provinces, despite the age range of machines in the mix. It's also had no issues for those rare times I'm paid the fee for using non-CIBC ATMs.


Regardless of what technology wrinkles potentially affect whether it works or not - I suspect the contract is for the network.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic12

carverman said:


> Didn't know about that. It seems that PCF definitely has an advantage in having multiple locations of access, even in gas stations where there is a CIBC machine ...


They were at one point trying to be the backend behind US grocery store banks, similar to their deal with Loblaws. Maybe they still like the lower income but increased income from outbidding the white label ATMs in gas stations etc.

Certainly more locations that are free to use is more beneficial to the card holder.


The Loblaws locations have a different label than the CIBC locations but I am pretty sure it's CIBC that is installing/managing the ATM, as they do in the gas station.




carverman said:


> ... Maybe Tangerine is too new on the scene to have made arrangements with every Scotia Bank (ATM) location, but they need to get their act together if they want to grow.


Tangerine that is *owned* by Scotiabank is negotiating on a per ATM location basis instead of on a network basis?

If so, then management is crazy to not talk to CIBC (or their Scotia owners are interfering).




carverman said:


> ... Nobody wants to drive across town to specific locations to get at their money. I only counted 15Tangerine ATM locations in Ottawa, so far.
> They don't seem to have a search engine where you can specify your postal code to find the nearest location either ...


I think it's their crappy search engine. I did notice that when one scrolls further down from the search engine, it says Tangerine customers get free access to their money though the Scotiabank ATM network.




carverman said:


> ... I think Tangerine better soon get their act together and have more accessible ATMs in each ScotiaBank branch at least..otherwise they are just an online bank.


My guess would be that a Tangerine customer can use any Scotiabank ATM, regardless of where it is located. Some may not work due to technical issues but that's happened to me for a regular bank account.

I can remember before Scotiabank bought when there was something like ten ATM locations total.


If you are concerned - can you not link the Tangerine account to your PCF account?
There would be the delay for the transfer from Tangerine to PCF but after that, all the CIBC ATMs would then be available for withdrawals/deposits.


Cheers


----------



## Spudd

carverman said:


> If I select Ottawa, I only see 15 locations and none those are not in my area of Ottawa West/Kanata, unlike PCF.
> 
> https://secure.tangerine.ca/web/Tangerine.html?command=displayAbmLocator
> 
> I think Tangerine better soon get their act together and have more accessible ATMs in each ScotiaBank branch at least..otherwise they are just an online bank.


I'm pretty sure you can get money from your Tangerine account at any ScotiaBank ATM. ScotiaBank owns them, so I don't know why it wouldn't be the case. Also, you can enter your postal code in the ABM locator, I just tried it and it worked perfectly.


----------



## carverman

Thanks Spudd for your suggestion using a postal code on the ABM locator. 

Using my Postal code gave me the nearest two ScotiaBanks, and one of these is accessible by wheelchair without me having to get on the bus.
I'll go ahead then and apply for a ATM card.


----------



## yupislyr

gibor365 said:


> It can happen. Last year I tried to use CIBC ATM for PCF card and had issues...I was told that old machines don't work with PCF cards, only new ones


As someone who works with ATMs, and CIBC and PCF ones in particular, I can tell you that this is false. There was probably some actual hardware error with that particular machine at the time you used it or some other PCF/CIBC network issue or an issue with your account. PCF cards should work at all PCF and CIBC machines, regardless of age or technology in use.

The card readers are exactly the same in most cases. The software is basically the same, for the most part. About the only glaring differences you'll notice from day to day use is that some have touch screens and some don't. Some can take envelopeless deposits and there's still some that don't.


----------



## yupislyr

Eclectic12 said:


> They were at one point trying to be the backend behind US grocery store banks, similar to their deal with Loblaws. Maybe they still like the lower income but increased income from outbidding the white label ATMs in gas stations etc.
> 
> Certainly more locations that are free to use is more beneficial to the card holder.
> 
> 
> The Loblaws locations have a different label than the CIBC locations but I am pretty sure it's CIBC that is installing/managing the ATM, as they do in the gas station.


This is pretty much true. There are some in gas stations that are actually running through a company called Cardtronics (by coincidence, they run all those Scotiabank ATMs in 7-11's now too), but it's all essentially the same from the end customer's stand point.


----------



## gibor365

yupislyr said:


> As someone who works with ATMs, and CIBC and PCF ones in particular, I can tell you that this is false. There was probably some actual hardware error with that particular machine at the time you used it or some other PCF/CIBC network issue or an issue with your account. PCF cards should work at all PCF and CIBC machines, regardless of age or technology in use.
> 
> The card readers are exactly the same in most cases. The software is basically the same, for the most part. About the only glaring differences you'll notice from day to day use is that some have touch screens and some don't. Some can take envelopeless deposits and there's still some that don't.


Nothing was wrong with my account, I was told that this was issue with particular ATM machine in the branch by branch staff... and AFAIR CIBC really were changing ATM machines... for example, when I deposited cash, some ATM requested that I put money in envelope and deposit , others, the new one, requested that I won;t use envelope and deposit bills that were counted right away


----------



## Eclectic12

^^^^

It is possible ... but then again, is this an easy answer that sends you on your way?


Thinking back, across several bank account using all sorts of ATMs (old, new, white label), across several provinces and at least two countries ... I don't recall a single time the card hasn't been read.

Yet somehow, a PCF plus the age of the ATM stopped your transaction.


Maybe I'm just lucky? 
I don't know but it seems weird.


Cheers


----------



## gibor365

AFAIR, it "read" my card, but didn't displayed any info about my accounts, so I couldn't deposit money.... so drove to RCSS where PCF has own machines.... It happens only once, I just withdraw cash from TD and wanted to deposit in CIBC ATM as they are located ot the same plaza... RCSS is much closer to my home, so never tried to do it via CIBC ATM again


----------



## peterk

Like clockwork.

Remove funds from Tangerine 1-3 days before the promotion ends, wait a few days. New promotional offer arrives.

This time 2.59% from Jan 5 - March 31st.









Just wish I didn't have to keep bouncing funds around. 6-7 days is about 10% of the business days every 3 months for these rolling promotions. So reduce 2.59% to about 2.35% for the net rate after all is said and done.


----------



## Synergy

Just received a new promo from Tangerine - 3.25% on new deposits until March 31st. I don't like the games these guys are playing but I might as well play along.


----------



## peterk

Synergy said:


> Just received a new promo from Tangerine - *3.25%* on new deposits until March 31st. I don't like the games these guys are playing but I might as well play along.


Woa-hoh, big money! I guess they don't like me so much anymore.

Edit: You neither AMABILE. So many macho headgames with the big orange.


----------



## AMABILE

i am so darn mad !!!!
i've been with tangerine since 1999 - i have 400k with them
after seeing peterk offered 2.59% and synergy 3.25%
they will not give me more than 2% for another 90 days 
i'm really upset, but will wait until i cool down tomorrow
before contemplating a move.


----------



## peterk

Synergy said:


> Just received a new promo from Tangerine - 3.25% on new deposits until March 31st. I don't like the games these guys are playing but I might as well play along.


What was your deposit status on Dec 31st? Did you just empty your account shortly before?


----------



## AMABILE

that's the problem- i don't ever move the money around
they are paying me 2% to retain me as a customer
these new promotions are for new deposits only


----------



## peterk

Amabile - Since it's too late for Jan 5th, try waiting until end of March, empty your accounts, and see what offer comes in first week of April.


----------



## gibor365

peterk said:


> Amabile - Since it's too late for Jan 5th, try waiting until end of March, empty your accounts, and see what offer comes in first week of April.


I'm mad too !!!! I got only 1.6% (from 2%) for next 90 days .... and I withdrew money before end of December promo... I just cannot figure out this stupid promos "algorithm"



> but will wait until i cool down tomorrow
> before contemplating a move.


 so what are you planning to do?

P.S. PT lowered GIC 2y rate from 2.2% to 2.05%


----------



## gibor365

Synergy said:


> Just received a new promo from Tangerine - 3.25% on new deposits until March 31st. I don't like the games these guys are playing but I might as well play along.


Did you get it to your email or when logged into your account?


----------



## gibor365

This is really stupid  ... My mom had $1 on Tangerine account for ages and she got 3.25% promo! My son in the same situation gets 0.8%. Looks like Tangerine just select randomly...


----------



## Beaver101

^ Randomly select? $1 x 3.25% = xx cents payout versus you/your son's $$$K x 3.25% = $$$ ... if you do the business math.


----------



## PrairieGal

I got an offer for 3.13%. Why such a random number? What is weird is that the email was promoting their RRSP loans, and the 3.13% on new savings was barely mentioned.


----------



## AMABILE

my promo goes til april 2nd ( at 2% )
i'll leave it there, then call april 1st
transfer everything to eq bank
then wait and see if they will offer me a new promo


----------



## gibor365

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Randomly select? $1 x 3.25% = xx cents payout versus you/your son's $$$K x 3.25% = $$$ ... if you do the business math.


First of all , promo is only for a new money.
Secondly, my son has $2 on Tangerine account for ages.

So, yes, it's RANDOM, rates are also random in range from 0.8 to 3.25%... no other way to explain rates 2.59 0r 3.13%


----------



## Synergy

gibor365 said:


> Did you get it to your email or when logged into your account?


Email. Haven't had the chance to log into my account yet.


----------



## mrPPincer

I was lucky got the 3.25% this time. 
Saw it on login, and received an e-mail as well, but I have been checking https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/ every day too, so I had already heard about it before I logged in on Jan. 5th.


Last couple times I phoned in to Tangerine to try and get a better deal with no luck.
At one point last year they gave me 1.6% but I didn't use it; before that I got a pretty decent deal from Tang.

No idea how they decide who gets what.
This time I had my account at zero balance, and was only using the account to pay my Tangerine credit card.


----------



## peterk

Seems like everyone with the >3% offer had $0 or near $0 on January 4th?

Myself I had >$100k on Dec 28th, several withdrawals up to Jan 3, interest payments on Jan 1. Minimum balance was some $150 on Jan 3 due to interest payments. Next time I will make an effort to reduce the account to near 0 by the 4th of April.


----------



## gibor365

> This time I had my account at zero balance, and was only using the account to pay my Tangerine credit card.


 Exactly my case! but I didn't get 3.25%.... my 2% offer ended mid-December and I called and they gave me only 1.6%.



> Seems like everyone with the >3% offer had $0 or near $0 on January 4th?


 As I mentioned earlier, my mom had near $0 and got 3.25%, my son in exact same situation got nothing

btw,I'm secondary joint owner on my mom's account (so I can see it on my cust id). Wondering if my mom gonna get 3.25% on money that I will transfer from my tangerine account to hers?


----------



## Synergy

They use an algorithm that examines multiple factors. It's not random. I had a complaint that I escalated to the ombudsman. In the end at least I got a chance to voice my opinions!


----------



## gibor365

Synergy said:


> They use an algorithm that examines multiple factors. It's not random. I had a complaint that I escalated to the ombudsman. In the end at least I got a chance to voice my opinions!


It should be very robust algorithm , as our family has 4 different cust ids with multiple accounts and I've never was able to figure out how promos are targeted


----------



## carverman

Ok, so my Tang promotion (0.8% regular on savings and TFSA), and 1.6% promotion on a new account that I opened with them for 6 months from July 15th, ends on Jan 15th. 

I don't want to park my money there at 0.8% interest after Jan 16th.

Any other deals out there for NEW accounts? 
I suppose I could move my money back to PCF, but it won't be a new account, so it's probably the
same 0.8% rate they are paying right now.

I just hate playing these nutshell games every few months.


----------



## Synergy

gibor365 said:


> I've never was able to figure out how promos are targeted


I'm sure that's part of their goal:grumpy:


----------



## Synergy

carverman said:


> Ok, so my Tang promotion (0.8% regular on savings and TFSA), and 1.6% promotion on a new account that I opened with them for 6 months from July 15th, ends on Jan 15th.
> 
> I don't want to park my money there at 0.8% interest after Jan 16th.
> 
> Any other deals out there for NEW accounts?
> I suppose I could move my money back to PCF, but it won't be a new account, so it's probably the
> same 0.8% rate they are paying right now.
> 
> I just hate playing these nutshell games every few months.


Try EQ bank. 2%, no games.


----------



## gibor365

at beginning Feb my MIL will be in the same situation...


> Any other deals out there for NEW accounts?


 I don't think so ....

You can try couple of things:
- withdraw everything from Tangerine account 1-2 days prior to your promo ends (as some suggested in this thread) and hope Tangerine will offer you good interest rate
- keep money in Tangerine until last day and call them on the last day asking for a new promo.

If they won't give you more than 2%, you may transfer your money to EQ bank to get 2% or move to CIBC (if you have account there) - they give 1.75% on Saving now


----------



## Mechanic

EQ works for wifey and me too


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> at beginning Feb my MIL will be in the same situation...
> I don't think so ....
> 
> You can try couple of things:
> - withdraw everything from Tangerine account 1-2 days prior to your promo ends (as some suggested in this thread) and hope Tangerine will offer you good interest rate
> - keep money in Tangerine until last day and call them on the last day asking for a new promo.
> 
> If they won't give you more than 2%, you may transfer your money to EQ bank to get 2% or move to CIBC (if you have account there) - they give 1.75% on Saving now



Thanks. i'll call Tang first and if they won't match PCF at 1.75% , I'll move the entire Savings account to PCF on Jan 16th.


----------



## gibor365

carverman said:


> Thanks. i'll call Tang first and if they won't match PCF at 1.75% , I'll move the entire Savings account to PCF on Jan 16th.


From their website PCF has 0.8% now...
Tangerine won't give you new rate before your current 2.4% promo is expired...
I'm thinking to withdraw all cash from my MIL 1-2 days before her promo ends and call Tangerine 1 day after promo ends


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> From their website PCF has 0.8% now...
> Tangerine won't give you new rate before your current 2.4% promo is expired...
> I'm thinking to withdraw all cash from my MIL 1-2 days before her promo ends and call Tangerine 1 day after promo ends


Yes, I know. I can't do much with Tang right now. I don't have any pension deposits or gov't additional deposits (HST rebate or Trillium monthly deposit) going into my Tang checking acct, and I don't pay bills from my Tang checking acct.

Apparently PCF has a promotion now on their TFSA on new deposits to March 31st, for exisiting accounts..so I will be shuffling all my savings with Tang into the PCF TFSA on Jan 16th. 2.25% is almost as good as the 2.4% that Tang is currently paying.

PCF current promotiion:
*From November 1, 2016 to March 31, 2017, your savings can earn a great rate of 2.25% on new deposits.*

I don't want to start messing around with bill paying or deposits with another bank in the current nutshell game.


----------



## gibor365

but it's only for TFSA


----------



## Mechanic

I was going to move to tangerine for a promo when EQ wouldn't match. But then I figured why play games when I can still get 2% and have access with no penalty if I need it, so I left it. Interest rates are low on all HISA right now and its just basically emergency funds.


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> but it's only for TFSA


Yes, I know,but according to my CRA account as of yesterday, I can put in up to $37,210 into my TFSA.
This includes the 2017 $5500 contribution room.

I can put $30K+ of my Tang savings and TFSA back into my PCF TFSA, and leave some more contribution room for this year.
Better to get 2.25% over the 0,8% with Tang on my TFSA and Savings account.

I'll still leave something in both the Tang savings and TFSA so that if they come up with another promotion this
year (which I'm sure they will), I can shuffle it back again through ETF.

2.25% is still better than 0.8%.


----------



## mrPPincer

^Carverman, do you know that the CRA site will likely not have the up to date numbers for your TFSA room if you have made contributions or withdrawals in 2016?

The CRA site should not be counted on to have the current TFSA contribution room, lots of people have been dinged with overcontribution fees not realizing that.

Also are you aware of the rules for moving money in and out of a TFSA? 
If you are maxed out and withdraw, you cannot put it back in without penalty until the following year.


----------



## carverman

mrPPincer said:


> ^Carverman, do you know that the CRA site will likely not have the up to date numbers for your TFSA room if you have made contributions or withdrawals in 2016?


Yes I know about the actual contribution room number. I keep a runny tally on my monthly budget that is checked and correllated against my bank accounts on nearly a daily basis. Unlike some people out there, I manage my money very well. The CRA should be updated by the end of February..usually. 
anyway.. as a side note; If CRA are telling me that is my contribution room and it's wrong, I have a case
for not paying the penalty for over contributing. They are supposed to be up on those numbers. 

Last year, I had nearly 30K in the PCF TFSA. I moved pretty much all of it to Tang to get the 2.4% promo rate because PCF was only paying 0.8%. and I only had 5K of contribution room left last year from the
previous year (2014). 

I originally deposited $10k into the Tang TFSA, but after I checked that I had forgotten to include one $4k contributiion early in the year (Tax return), I had Tang backdate it about a day after I moved it, and moved $5K out of Tang TFSA into my Tang savings to avoud the over contribution penalty (1%)

This year, I can pretty much move the $30k out of the Tang savings and maybe even the Tang TFSA into the PCF TFSA if Tang won't match the PCF promotion of 2.25%..so in essence
I'm restoring the "withdrawals" by ETF from PCF to Tang I did last year.



> The CRA site should not be counted on to have the current TFSA contribution room, lots of people have been dinged with overcontribution fees not realizing that.


Oh I am fully aware of that too. However, in my case, it does seem to track what my current contribution
limit is for this year. 



> Also are you aware of the rules for moving money in and out of a TFSA?
> If you are maxed out and withdraw, you cannot put it back in without penalty until the following year.


Yes, absolutely. I keep track of my contributions and withdrawals and total them up as I go on to my next months budget that I keep on my computer.


----------



## peterk

Like clockwork, a new 3 month cycle begins today at Tangerine. April 5 - June 30.

Withdrew everything last week, and am re-depositing this week...I got offered a whopping 3.21% this time!


----------



## Spudd

I was too lazy to withdraw so I'm stuck with 2%. On the bright side, I plan to spend most of it in the next couple of months anyways, so it shouldn't make too much difference in the long run.


----------



## peterk

Ya I wouldn't normally be too worked up over it but I've got well over 100k in cash at the moment so keeping close tabs on it is worth it. +/-1% is about $100/month for me.


----------



## Spudd

peterk said:


> Ya I wouldn't normally be too worked up over it but I've got well over 100k in cash at the moment so keeping close tabs on it is worth it. +/-1% is about $100/month for me.


Well worth it!


----------



## humble_pie

peterk said:


> Like clockwork, a new 3 month cycle begins today at Tangerine. April 5 - June 30.
> 
> Withdrew everything last week, and am re-depositing this week...I got offered a whopping 3.21% this time!





well, that didn't take you long to figure out

but peterk don't you know that the first rule of successful code crackers is Never Divulge?

if you start a tsunami of tangerine depositors all stampeding for the exit during the last week of may, it won't take them long to figure out a mechanism for checking histories. Next thing, they'll block high rates for re-entry clients.

if you'd said nothing you'd have stood a better chance of repeatedly outwitting the big citrus over the log term .each:

.


----------



## gibor365

peterk said:


> Like clockwork, a new 3 month cycle begins today at Tangerine. April 5 - June 30.
> 
> Withdrew everything last week, and am re-depositing this week...I got offered a whopping 3.21% this time!


Withdrew next day after previous promo got finished and today got a new one at 2.97% , starting moving all money back 



> if you start a tsunami of tangerine depositors all stampeding for the exit during the last week of may, it won't take them long to figure out a mechanism for checking histories. Next thing, they'll block high rates for re-entry clients.


 What a stupid comment  .... until they "figure out a mechanism" we are earning thousands of $$$


----------



## peterk

Considering it seems to be only the same 10 people in this thread, I'm not super concerned. Besides, gotta keep my peeps in the know... Hook a CMF homeboy up. each:


----------



## mordko

gibor365 said:


> Withdrew next day after previous promo got finished and today got a new one at 2.97% , starting moving all money back


3.21%. Which is nice given that I have the full $500K to move in. Would love to know their algorithm for coming up with these percentage fractions, but one has to assume an element of randomization.


----------



## gibor365

mordko said:


> 3.21%. Which is nice given that I have the full $500K to move in. Would love to know their algorithm for coming up with these percentage fractions, but one has to assume an element of randomization.


I will send you pm


----------



## mrPPincer

I'm playing the same game, (also got 3.21% this time around).
Previous promo was 3.25% for me, withdrew all the day after as well, but because I pulled it from an external insitution, it didn't actually exit until April 4 (the day they are using for their 'new money' calculations).

The phone rep assured me they are using closing balance for their calculations but couldn't send me an e-mail to confirm.
Will move it all back in on friday, we'll see if she was right or not when the first bonus interest is due on May 1.


----------



## gibor365

> I'm playing the same game, (also got 3.21% this time around).
> Previous promo was 3.25% for me, withdrew all the day after as well


 you should be OK, I was told that they took snapshot on Mar 5 morning...
. It's also mistery forme how they come up with such rates: 3.21%, 2.97% etc... So, we did exat same action, but got different rates


----------



## carverman

gibor365 said:


> Withdrew next day after previous promo got finished and today got a new one at 2.97% , starting moving all money back
> 
> What a stupid comment  .... until they "figure out a mechanism" we are earning thousands of $$$


just got an email from Tang this morning, they are offering me 2.81 on savings and TFSA.
I wish they would have replied to me back at the middle of January, when I could have left my TFSA and Savings with them instead of
having to move it all over to PCF and have the TFSA promotion expire there at end of March. 

Now, I can't move the TFSA back to the Tang TFSA I opened up this year, so I will have to wait now until next year..what a pain with this stupid nutshell game of having to move your money between banks every 3 months.

Well at least, I can put it into tang savings..better than the lousy 0.8% PCF is paying now.


----------



## PrairieGal

3.23% for me this time. Unfortunately, I didn't move my money out in time, so no real opportunity to benefit from it. I'll move it over to EQ and hope for an offer on the next round.


----------



## Karlou

I must be the poorest member of CMF  I just got 2.6% this time, but it's better than the 2.3% I got at La Capitale Swiss account ending March 31st
In three months, I'll make sure to transfer my money elsewhere in order to profit the most from this promotion. Thanks for the tip!!!


----------



## carverman

I think there must be some collusion between these virtual banks. Last year Tang was offering around 2.25% on new accounts.
That expired on Jan 15th for me. I sent them email and tried to call them to find out when they were
going to run their next promotion, (you end up with music on hold for ages, and nobody comes to the line), so I gave up and moved my savings/TFSA over to PCF that were offering 2.24% on TFSA only.

That has expired as well, so now Tang is offering anywheres from 2.6 to 3.23 on new deposits.

It's becoming a PITA just to have the money around from bank to bank, but left with no choice. 
At least, I can move it myself without any service charges involved.


----------



## gibor365

> Last year Tang was offering around 2.25% on new accounts.


 actually 2.4%  (I opened this is one to my MIL same time as you), when this promo finished, MIL got only 2% until end of April, Now, I wouldn't contact Tangerine, but next day after 2% promo ends will move almostall her cash (except saome that covers Tang MC)to CIBC. Will wait couple of week , if Tang gonna offer another promo


----------



## nathan79

I finally got a new offer from PCF today. It took them long enough!


> Now is a great time to have a President’s Choice Financial® Interest PlusTM Savings Account (IPSA). Enrol to take advantage of 2.5%* interest on all new deposits until August 31, 2017.


----------



## Mechanic

What does the interest drop to after Aug 31 ?


----------



## Synergy

nathan79 said:


> I finally got a new offer from PCF today. It took them long enough!


Same here but I only got 2%:frown-new:


----------



## james4beach

carverman said:


> It's becoming a PITA just to have the money around from bank to bank, but left with no choice.


Just don't get tempted by high cash rates at one of the sketchy mortgage banks. Personally I would never deposit with Home Trust's subsidiaries, Peoples Trust, Equitable, etc.

Instead what if you relied more heavily on a GIC ladder? By always buying 5 year GICs (in a brokerage) you will pretty much get the best yield, all in one place, and you can stagger them so that a GIC is always maturing every couple months.

For example, every 2 months buy another 5 year GIC. Repeat.

And keep some cash sitting in a HISA somewhere, but if the GIC ladder is doing the bulk of your return than the HISA becomes much less important.


----------



## gibor365

> Personally I would never deposit with Home Trust's subsidiaries, Peoples Trust, Equitable, etc.


 Even within CDIC limits?


----------



## gibor365

nathan79 said:


> I finally got a new offer from PCF today. It took them long enough!


I didn't . Did you get it on your email or when logged into bank? I don't really need it now as I have higher rate with Tangerine until Jun 30, but after it can be the best rate offered...

Did they start copying Tangerine offering targeted promos?!


----------



## nathan79

gibor365 said:


> I didn't . Did you get it on your email or when logged into bank? I don't really need it now as I have higher rate with Tangerine until Jun 30, but after it can be the best rate offered...
> 
> Did they start copying Tangerine offering targeted promos?!


I got it by email. You have to click on a link in the email to enrol.


----------



## gibor365

nathan79 said:


> I got it by email. You have to click on a link in the email to enrol.


Who was the sender?


----------



## james4beach

gibor365 said:


> Who was the sender?


Do not click links in emails. This is too easy to forge by a scammer... don't ever click links in emails.


----------



## james4beach

gibor365 said:


> Personally I would never deposit with Home Trust's subsidiaries, Peoples Trust, Equitable, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Even within CDIC limits?
Click to expand...

Me personally - no I would not deposit with them, even within CDIC limits. I would prefer to deposit with big banks and big credit unions as I consider those safer.

Others will see it differently.


----------



## nathan79

james4beach said:


> Do not click links in emails. This is too easy to forge by a scammer... don't ever click links in emails.


The emails comes from PCF (it's the same address they always use) and the link directs to a CIBC address.

Yes, never click any links in emails if you're not 100% sure of its authenticity.


----------



## Synergy

gibor365 said:


> Even within CDIC limits?


CDIC is CDIC, regardless of the institution. Stay within the limit and take advantage of the rates available.


----------



## Eclectic12

nathan79 said:


> I got it by email. You have to click on a link in the email to enrol.


That's one way to enroll ... though I never risk it.
The other ways listed are to visit a PCF in store pavilion or calling 1-866-674-5610. 

The fine print says that the offer is for the original recipient of the email and is non-transferrable. It also repeats these methods then adds a fourth method - accepting the online offer through online banking. 


Cheers


*PS*

I didn't risk calling back the phone number allegedly left by CRA ... until I had called a number I knew was CRA and had them verify it.


----------



## Eclectic12

Synergy said:


> CDIC is CDIC, regardless of the institution. Stay within the limit and take advantage of the rates available.


I prefer to have enough to cover any foreseeable issues in a bigger FI and limit what may be held up, should CDIC need to be involved.
If I had direct experience with a CDIC payout, I might change this but for now, the spread isn't worth having too much at a lesser FI.

To each their own ...



Cheers


----------



## james4beach

nathan79 said:


> The emails comes from PCF (it's the same address they always use) and the link directs to a CIBC address.
> 
> Yes, never click any links in emails if you're not 100% sure of its authenticity.


There is no way to be 100% sure of authenticity of any email. They are very easy to forge. Just looking at the address it "came from" is not enough, as anyone can send an email that looks like it comes from the regular PCF address.

Same with the hyperlinks, they can be crafted to appear like the go to one site, but actually take you to another. So even if the address looks like the usual PC Financial address, it's still not safe to click.

The safe way to handle a PC promo email is to read it, but go to the web site yourself the usual way you do -- follow a bookmark that you made. This way you know you are going to the correct site and are not being redirected to a fake site.


----------



## gibor365

> The safe way to handle a PC promo email is to read it, but go to the web site yourself the usual way you do -- follow a bookmark that you made. This way you know you are going to the correct site and are not being redirected to a fake site.


 When I go next time to our local RCSS, I wiil visit PCF pavilion and talk with some Indian guy/girl 
Interestingly , all PCF reps I've ever met are Indian immigrants  ( and I don't even live in Brampton)


----------



## nathan79

james4beach said:


> There is no way to be 100% sure of authenticity of any email. They are very easy to forge. Just looking at the address it "came from" is not enough, as anyone can send an email that looks like it comes from the regular PCF address.
> 
> Same with the hyperlinks, they can be crafted to appear like the go to one site, but actually take you to another. So even if the address looks like the usual PC Financial address, it's still not safe to click.
> 
> The safe way to handle a PC promo email is to read it, but go to the web site yourself the usual way you do -- follow a bookmark that you made. This way you know you are going to the correct site and are not being redirected to a fake site.


Can't be too safe, I guess. I was personally satisfied that the chance of it being fake was near zero (I've seen hundreds of scam emails and know everything to look for). Even if it did lead to a fake site, I would never enter personal info/password without making sure it matched the site in my bookmarks.

Probably should also mention to never call any phone number in an email, because that could also be fake. Go to the bank's website and find the phone number manually.


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## james4beach

One thing with PCF is, I would like to get absolute confirmation that these accounts are in fact CIBC accounts, from the perspective of "which bank's solvency should I be concerned about?"

Does anyone know who I would contact to get clarification on this? The PC bank accounts are listed under CIBC's statement of CDIC insured accounts, so I'm about 90% sure they are on CIBC's balance sheet, but still want to check.


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## nathan79

james4beach said:


> One thing with PCF is, I would like to get absolute confirmation that these accounts are in fact CIBC accounts, from the perspective of "which bank's solvency should I be concerned about?"
> 
> Does anyone know who I would contact to get clarification on this? The PC bank accounts are listed under CIBC's statement of CDIC insured accounts, so I'm about 90% sure they are on CIBC's balance sheet, but still want to check.


When I link the account to Tangerine, it shows up as CIBC rather than PCF.


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## AltaRed

james4beach said:


> One thing with PCF is, I would like to get absolute confirmation that these accounts are in fact CIBC accounts, from the perspective of "which bank's solvency should I be concerned about?"
> 
> Does anyone know who I would contact to get clarification on this? The PC bank accounts are listed under CIBC's statement of CDIC insured accounts, so I'm about 90% sure they are on CIBC's balance sheet, but still want to check.


PCF is included in CIBC's CDIC insurance coverage. The T5 says payee is "CIBC Direct Banking Division". Note "division". Not CIBC 'something' Ltd.


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## andrewf

james4beach said:


> One thing with PCF is, I would like to get absolute confirmation that these accounts are in fact CIBC accounts, from the perspective of "which bank's solvency should I be concerned about?"
> 
> Does anyone know who I would contact to get clarification on this? The PC bank accounts are listed under CIBC's statement of CDIC insured accounts, so I'm about 90% sure they are on CIBC's balance sheet, but still want to check.


Personally think it is more likely that CIBC would go down suddenly than Loblaw. PCF is relatively small part of Loblaw.


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## james4beach

When I do a bill payment from PCF to a TDDI account, the activity shows an incoming transfer from CIBC


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## james4beach

AltaRed said:


> PCF is included in CIBC's CDIC insurance coverage. The T5 says payee is "CIBC Direct Banking Division". Note "division". Not CIBC 'something' Ltd.


Do you think this means the account itself exists on CIBC's balance sheet? I'm just trying to track down which corporation has a liability to me. When I deposit into a PCF account, does CIBC owe me money, or does Loblaws?

I'm thinking that the inclusion of PCF accounts within CIBC's CDIC coverage is the proof that CIBC is the entity that owes me money.


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## Bechard

I know it isn't amazing but you can call and complain and they will bump up your interest rate. My promo period has been done for quite some time but I keep calling. Today I called and they put me back up to 1.6% which is better than 0.8% but I did threaten to leave and go to PCF and they didn't seem to care lol.

Good luck all.


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## Eclectic12

james4beach said:


> There is no way to be 100% sure of authenticity of any email ...
> The safe way to handle a PC promo email is to read it, but go to the web site yourself the usual way you do -- follow a bookmark that you made. This way you know you are going to the correct site and are not being redirected to a fake site.


Not sure why showing up at a pavilion in a Loblaws store or calling the number on the back of one's chip card would be a problem ... 




james4beach said:


> One thing with PCF is, I would like to get absolute confirmation that these accounts are in fact CIBC accounts, from the perspective of "which bank's solvency should I be concerned about?"
> 
> Does anyone know who I would contact to get clarification on this? The PC bank accounts are listed under CIBC's statement of CDIC insured accounts, so I'm about 90% sure they are on CIBC's balance sheet, but still want to check.


Only as an operation of CIBC direct banking - *not ownership*, which has been posted several times as Loblaws.



> The *joint venture between Loblaws and CIBC* started in 1996.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Choice_Financial

It was announced in 1996 as being owned by Loblaws.

Without anything to indicate it has changed, at best - CIBC might have a bit of ownership. CIBC's responsibility as far as deposits go will be limited to whatever they own (if anything) plus whatever special coverage Loblaws contracted for.

CIBC may choose to provide more than that as I suspect it would be a hit to their credibility to be running all the ATMs, chip debit cards etc. then have deposit problems (unless CIBC has documented proof Loblaws over rode their advice/plans).




AltaRed said:


> PCF is included in CIBC's CDIC insurance coverage. The T5 says payee is "CIBC Direct Banking Division". Note "division". Not CIBC 'something' Ltd.


+1 ... there have been many reference right from day one in 1996 that Loblaws is the owner with CIBC providing the back office stuff.


After all the digging that has been done around the bank leverage positions - I am not clear on why this simple fact that has been repeated in at least a couple of threads seems to be hard to follow.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12

james4beach said:


> When I do a bill payment from PCF to a TDDI account, the activity shows an incoming transfer from CIBC


So what?

CIBC is the banking provider ... or have you forgotten their direct banking division was rebranded as "Amicus" in support of the Safeway/Winn Dixie grocery store banks in the US?



> Within Canada, Amicus Bank was primarily responsible for operating President's Choice Financial ... Amicus had an American unit, Amicus FSB (Amicus Federal Savings Bank), which was formed in 2000 and has since ceased operations due to cancellation of *joint ventures south of the border*.
> 
> Amicus FSB partnered with Safeway grocery stores in western US states (California, Colorado) and Florida, doing business as *Safeway SELECT Bank* ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicus_Bank


For someone who digs out hard to find info, the fact that CIBC at one point saw a chunk of their future growth as being through being the outsourcing agency for bank services seems to have escaped you.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12

james4beach said:


> Do you think this means the account itself exists on CIBC's balance sheet? I'm just trying to track down which corporation has a liability to me. When I deposit into a PCF account, does CIBC owe me money, or does Loblaws?


As owner, I would expect Loblaws owes you the money but will send you to CIBC as they handle the back office, which would include apprising CDIC as well as meeting any CDIC requirements for the PCF deposit accounts.

Bell or Rogers is responsible but the last I checked, the techs showing up to do the work were independent contractors with an "agent of ... " on the side of their vans.


Cheers


*PS*

Didn't the questions to CDIC about Home Trust etc. say it would be automatic without needing to contact CDIC and presumably PCF or Loblaws?


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## humble_pie

Bechard said:


> I know it isn't amazing but you can call and complain and they will bump up your interest rate. My promo period has been done for quite some time but I keep calling. Today I called and they put me back up to 1.6% which is better than 0.8% but I did threaten to leave and go to PCF and they didn't seem to care lol.




i can't figure out tangerine's business plan. It looks morbid to me, but until i could know better what they are up to, i'm assuming they know what they are doing ...

according to this & other threads, the big citrus has clients who don't keep a permanent centime in the house. They waltz their deposits out, then lurk in the woods until the next 3-month promo starts. Then they swing back in & the bank gives them "new client" promo rates north of 3%.

there's even a tangerine rep quoted on here who confided to a cmffer exactly when the big citrus takes its picture of client accounts. Not too long before the start of each 3-month promo, apparently. So waves of orange clients have learned to skidaddle in the nick of time, then lurk, then march up to the front door on the first day of each calendar quarter & announce their recycled money as "new money."

it's not the clients i'm questioning. Me i say if the loophole exists, go for it. 

rather, it's the competence of the bank i'm questioning. Have the big orange nobs discovered that they can attract more new money by offering a 3.++% rate to a select number of clients in a lottery but .80% to the rest, than they can by offering a slow 'n steady average low rate to all of the people all of the time?

meanwhile it's evident that the big banks are having none of this. This leaves me wondering what are tangerine's covenants with the bank of nova scotia.

.


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## Eclectic12

gibor365 said:


> When I go next time to our local RCSS, I wiil visit PCF pavilion and talk with some Indian guy/girl
> Interestingly , all PCF reps I've ever met are Indian immigrants  ( and I don't even live in Brampton)


Interesting ... never been in a large city pavilion (or at least Toronto's size), where the ones I have spoken to are Caucasian.




nathan79 said:


> When I link the account to Tangerine, it shows up as CIBC rather than PCF.


Interesting ... it seems the data was left as-is when BNS bought ING Direct out as the Tangerine transfer pick list shows the account as Amicus. I'll ask the next time I call the mortgage company for a HELOC payment but I believe they also have PCF as Amicus.

The nickname on a newer online bank is "PCF" but I don't recall whether that was my nickname or what the void cheque automatically setup.


Cheers


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## Ihatetaxes

humble_pie said:


> i can't figure out tangerine's business plan. It looks morbid to me, but until i could know better what they are up to, i'm assuming they know what they are doing ...
> 
> according to this & other threads, the big citrus has clients who don't keep a permanent centime in the house. They waltz their deposits out, then lurk in the woods until the next 3-month promo starts. Then they swing back in & the bank gives them "new client" promo rates north of 3%.
> 
> there's even a tangerine rep quoted on here who confided to a cmffer exactly when the big citrus takes its picture of client accounts. Not too long before the start of each 3-month promo, apparently. So waves of orange clients have learned to skidaddle in the nick of time, then lurk, then march up to the front door on the first day of each calendar quarter & announce their recycled money as "new money."
> 
> it's not the clients i'm questioning. Me i say if the loophole exists, go for it.
> 
> rather, it's the competence of the bank i'm questioning. Have the big orange nobs discovered that they can attract more new money by offering a 3.++% rate to a select number of clients in a lottery but .80% to the rest, than they can by offering a slow 'n steady average low rate to all of the people all of the time?
> 
> meanwhile it's evident that the big banks are having none of this. This leaves me wondering what are tangerine's covenants with the bank of nova scotia.
> 
> .


Tangerine is ridiculous with these quarterly promo's and letting clients use the loophole as you mention. It works though since a lot of us jump through the hoops. Just got a business account promo yesterday of 2.55% until the end of July and within 5 minutes had moved several hundred grand over from another business HISA account paying 0.6%. August 1st the money will be out of there waiting for another promo.


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## al42

Got this from PCF yesterday. Targeted though

Now is a great time to have a President’s Choice Financial® Interest PlusTM Savings Account (IPSA). Enrol to take advantage of 2.5%* interest on all new deposits until August 31, 2017. 
Make new deposits into your account, stash a little cash and watch it grow.


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## mrPPincer

My 3.21% rate at Tangerine expired friday.
I phoned in today, asked for a retention rate or I'd be moving it out, and the gave me 2.5% for another 90 days.

I suspect their summer 'new money' promo may be better, but I'm happy with 2.5% as opposed to running the promo lottery again.
The 'new money' promos lately have been targeted, and it's been hit and miss whether you get a good deal or not.


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## james4beach

mrPPincer said:


> I phoned in today, asked for a retention rate or I'd be moving it out, and the gave me 2.5% for another 90 days.


I guess they're trying to be competitive with each other. I'm on a current PC promotion and saw this notice, also 2.5% for 90 days:

Great news. You’re already enrolled and are currently enjoying 2%* interest on 
new deposits into your President’s Choice Financial^® Interest Plus^TM savings 
account until August 31, 2017. As an added benefit, you will earn 2.5%* interest 
on those deposits plus any new deposits from September 1 until October 31, 2017.​
So it sounds like anything deposited from now to October 31 will earn 2.5% interest.


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## peterk

My July-Sept Promo offer went down a little to 3.1%, from 3.21% in the May-July promo.

The start dates seem to have changed from the 1st of the month to the 5th a while back. I still take my money out on the 29th-31st though, just in case and to stay consistent with my method, but it seem I could probably wait until the 2-4th to withdraw. I'm thinking of trying that at the end of the Sept promo, but also don't want to risk upsetting the Tangerine promo gods.


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## gibor365

> My July-Sept Promo offer went down a little to 3.1%, from 3.21% in the May-July promo.


 You're lucky you got this rate! Looks like Tangerine reduce rate by notch every 3 mo promo period. One of the our accounts used to have 3.25%, then it was reduced to 2.97% and recently to 2.5%. So, I moved majority of cash to Oaken and opened several GICs 2.95% for 2 years and 3.05% for 3 years.



> I still take my money out on the 29th-31st though, just in case and to stay consistent with my method, but it seem I could probably wait until the 2-4th to withdraw.


 Not sure this strategy is working (maybe just coincedence for you ). I did the same with my MIL money,waited for about 3 weeks and didn't get any new promo....so called them and got just 2%


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## RBull

I had 3.21% from Tangerine Mar-June, pulled my money at end of June and next day had same offer July-Oct. Moved it all back so we'll see what happens in a few months.


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## Ihatetaxes

Also down to 2.5 from 3.21. My business account down from 2.25 to 1.25.


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## redsgomarching

is this just your emergency fund that you rate shop with? what amounts do most of you switch around? can't imagine that anything less than 50-100k is worth doing this much work for.


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## gibor365

redsgomarching said:


> is this just your emergency fund that you rate shop with? what amounts do most of you switch around? can't imagine that anything less than 50-100k is worth doing this much work for.


I'm switching around more than 600K,it's not only ours, but also my mom and my MIL cash


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## AMABILE

my 2% promo just ended with tangerine

called in to-day and was given 2.5% for 90 days


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## RBull

^thanks for the info. Will have to call in myself as my 3.21% expires end of month. 

There seems to be little rhyme or reason on their rates and who gets what.


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## gibor365

AMABILE said:


> my 2% promo just ended with tangerine
> 
> called in to-day and was given 2.5% for 90 days


same here


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