# house disaster



## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

I bought this house 2 years ago. It was cheap and there was always some strange feeling like, are you sure you want this house by many people. But i did it anyways. I started renovated and soon after i got allergy problems, it is now so bad i have to move out. The walls floor joists are all infected with dry rot. I turned off the dehumidifier awhile ago which has probably made it so much worse. It is like lately when it snows or rains the humidity sets it off. I never notice it so bad but today the house whole house sort of smells musty. Needless to say i am very angry, sad, frustrated, feeling very bad because this was suppose to be my house. Actually the house is getting rather nice, with vaulted ceiling and skylights. I have put a lot of work and money in it. So what to do?

1). Sue the RE agent, quick search of 'dry rot sue ontario' show that the RE agent can be libel. I wonder is 2 years too long now. What i understand is the longer you are exposed to rot the worse you react. As i now with various 'itious.' Do you think i have good chance, not sure how much i would sue for. Pain and suffering. Also i have to pay rent now and it will take a long time to sell, all houses take a long time up here. 1 hour north of TO.
Now that i remember, she was really nervous of this when i bought the house. I am such an idiot i did not listen to what people were saying, i just though wow so cheap.
2) Sue the home inspector. How would know about the dry rot? well he could have guess. But it is not visible. So i doubt that would work.
3) Insurance claim? I do not really know if the house is savable, all the walls need to be taken out and replaced, which rather major structural issues. I am 150k in the hole with no profit.
4) Sell the house 'as is.' I might break even. The good thing about this is is that i wouldn't be libel to the next guy. But it would have to be sold to a contractor or crazy DIY.
5) Hire guys to finish the house, try to cover and smells etc. I have about $5000 worth of work to be done and the house would be finished and salable to say someone with no sense of smell. Actually in the summer there was no smell. So it is possible that people will not notice. But i am moving back to TO so it means driving back and forth.
Once the house is finished i could probably get a good price and make decent profit, 180-200k. This is probably what i will have to do. I suppose i need to hire an agent to sell it with high commission, they can saddle any law suits.

Needless to say this is one of the worst problem/screw up i've had in my life. Sadly in 2 years i was never able to fully move in because of always renovations i was waiting to get everything done.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Well I guess speaking to the insurance agent would not hurt and I would get an estimate from a contractor to address all the issues rather than do a band aid solution and pass on to the next guy. I have seen those renovation shows where they have to take things back to the studs and replace the wood and come up with a $50,000 -$60,000 price tag to put the house back together ,I suppose it depends on what the new value would be if you went that route.As I see it you are probably too far in to just walk away .


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

marina628 said:


> Well I guess speaking to the insurance agent would not hurt and I would get an estimate from a contractor to address all the issues rather than do a band aid solution and pass on to the next guy. I have seen those renovation shows where they have to take things back to the studs and replace the wood and come up with a $50,000 -$60,000 price tag to put the house back together ,I suppose it depends on what the new value would be if you went that route.As I see it you are probably too far in to just walk away .


Be careful with the sunk cost fallacy; I personally think if you can get out by breaking even with your mental health in check, that might be the best option. Would not recommend trying to hide for the next guy, they will sue you. Sell it as DIY, break even or a small loss, move on with your day.


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## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

I've calmed down a bit now. I am leave this house today, thankfully. The smell is noticeable some times.

I think i can get a guy to take it all out and replace it for $3000, which will have to be done in the spring. Which means i have to stay out of the house until then. It is a home made house with thick walls of wood and concrete. All that wood is dry rotted, so when dampness comes along it flairs up. even when that is all gone i can not take out the frame which dry rot.That should be not to bad that someone can live with.
As it is now is is about 1000 sq feet around me with the dry rot, but is separated with new insulation and vapour barrier but still comes through of course.



> Real Estate Agents
> Real estate agents may be sued for breach of contract, negligence and misrepresentation in respect of property with mould contamination. Real estate agents may also be liable for breach of express warranty if the condition of a building has been specifically warranted.


http://www.mccarthy.ca/article_detail.aspx?id=1428

When i sell i will move to an apartment and keep my address private. That way they will not be able to find me if they think to sue. But what i understand if the RE agent sells it will be their liability, not mine. They have insurance too. Anyways once that 1000sq feet is remove that should make a big difference. I managed to live here for 2 years and it wasn't all bad, but i have had alergies problems mostly at night. But i suppose there have been some good times.
If it sold to a retired person, likely they will not notice or be bothered. Same with maybe a young couple with strong immunity.
I was thinking of calling that RE agent and threaten her with a law suit. Maybe she will just take the house off my hands instead of spending 1000's on legal fees. She must be worried about her reputation, i am thinking to write some serious blogs telling my story and exposing the agent, the lawyer and the house inspector. I have a suspicion they all know each other and i really got scammed. 
The contract never said anything about 'as is.' It just didn't have any conditions.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

If you want to sue, your only recourse is against the previous owner. You can sue for a latent defect. There is no time limit for when to sue for a latent defect - you just need to prove that the problem you found had existed at the time the previous seller occupied the property. Dry rot is a good proof since it takes many years for that to happen.

Don't bother sueing the agent nor the home inspector since they would not have known about the issue which was not visible and located behind closed walls.

If you want to save yourself the headache of being in and out of court for a long period of time, then you can sell 'as is' but you need to disclose the problem. It could actually take you more time to sell than to settle in court unless you sell the home at a huge discount.

My advice is to send an official request (registered mail) to the previous owner advising them of the problem and giving them the oppurtunity to check out the issue and potentially resolve it for you. If they are not receptive within a reasonable delay (10-15 days), then you file for a court case. Gather all the require evidence and build your case.

Good luck!


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## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks, that sounds like decent advice. The wall i can fix fairly easily, like is said for around$2500 (i won't explain unless you are really interested) The other problem is the floor joists, which are about 6 are rather fruity. I guess they can be hacked out, sister up and cover up. Should lower the mold levels to reasonable level.

I spoke to the insurance and they said they don't pay for mold. But they might pay for time out of the house, but they need to send someone over to check the claim first. I'm leaving today closing the whole house up, just drained the water tank. I'll try and stay over there as long as possible, so when i come back i can get the guy to start work and maybe i can live there again or maybe call the insurance and start a claim for temporary accommodations. I guess i'll have to be on the lam for a few years after i sell.... i think renting suits me better anyways. I suppose i have to be careful who i sell to. I am starting to understand the paranoia from the agents in the beginning, she must of thought it was a set up on the old owner that i would turn around and sue the owner, who she was trying to protect. She was trying to be careful who she sold to. It is all making sense now.
I guess they can only sue for a limited amount depending on the severity of the problem anyways. I would assume not more than 5-10k. I have already replace the rotten roof, 8k. Too bad i didn't know about this before.:upset:


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## martin15 (Feb 18, 2014)

chaudi said:


> It was cheap


Gee whiz, what was your first clue ?



> 1). Sue the RE agent,....... I am such an idiot i did not listen to what people were saying, i just though wow so cheap.


Yep, you are getting there.




> 2) Sue the home inspector. How would know about the dry rot? well he could have guess. But it is not visible. So i doubt that would work.


So nobody saw it, but the inspector is supposed to have x ray vision or something ?
If they didn't see it, I guess you didn't either.



> 5) try to cover and smells etc. ............. So it is possible that people will not notice. .... get a good price and make decent profit, 180-200k. This is probably what i will have to do. I suppose i need to hire an agent to sell it with high commission, they can saddle any law suits.



Yeah, guys like you are exactly what we need these days. Thanks.

Please enjoy your trip home, maybe it should be a one way ticket.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I think if you can resolve some issues as you said for $2500 -$3000 the best and most ethical thing to do is disclose the issues.Getting insurance to help with temporary accommodations is positive for sure.Mold can make you very sick and in some cases kill people ,I would be testing to find out what you are dealing with there.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

"It was cheap" sounds to me like you paid less than what you felt it was worth. If that's the case, putting some money into the house shouldn't be a big deal and suing the past owner would seem kinda petty to me. If we are talking major defects and 50-100+k of necessary repairs that you felt had been "hidden" from you by the past owners, then by all means - unleash the hounds!

Option #5 is just wrong.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

> 4) Sell the house 'as is.' I might break even.


Doesn't sound like this was a particularly expensive gamble. Or that you suffered damages other than significant stress.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

How much is the worth of the land compared to the total selling price ?.........the land still has value.

Get an estimate for replacing all the dry rot in the home...........properly.

Hire a lawyer and sue both the previous owner and the real estate agent, their brokerage, and the home inspector.

The buyer failed to disclose a problem that must have been obvious to them, and the realtor and inspector failed to provide due diligence.

Wait to see the results and then you can make an informed decision, depending on the outcome of the lawsuit.

1) Fix the property with the money you are awarded.

2) Disclose the problem and sell for a loss........if you can afford to pay the difference to the bank.

3) Tear down the house and build a new one........incorporating the old debt into the new home. If you have enough property maybe you can convert the old home into a workshop and storage area.........where dry rot is less of an issue. Between the value of the land and the value of an added workshop.......the value of the property may increase closer to what you have invested in it.

With so much dry rot in the home........the humidity levels must have been very high. I would also check local police reports to see if the home was once used as a marijuana grow op.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Good luck 'trying' to sue the real estate agent.
what did your contract and conditions in writing say on your offer?and what was written up from your lawyer that handled the transaction?
I had(have still)a problem with a real estate transaction 18 mth ago re:vacant land(long story)
Anyways.......Litigation is not something that is 'easy' and you will be up against the insurance body of the real estate agents in your province(this not like suing a individual,you are suing a 'group' collectively that has a lot of 'power' and 'resources' and there is no way to predict the outcome(would take yrs likely and the up front costs are 10's of thousands)
I feel your pain!It's about HIGH TIME we as citizens demand accountability and have firm recourse(consumer protection)against real estate agents.
I can't understand why our government lets the real estate boards etc be unregulated(Financial industry is)It is not uncommon to hear 100's and thousands of story's were people have been hurt financially and emotionally from real estate dealings and realtor's go unscathed.
Securities(S.E.C)is a JOKe in this country!sadly you are likely on your own here.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

also note:you can not sue the seller or the sellers agent.
Your recourse is(if you have any)your agent or your lawyer.
The seller is 'far' removed from you in this transaction.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

donald said:


> also note:you can not sue the seller or the sellers agent.
> Your recourse is(if you have any)your agent or your lawyer.
> The seller is 'far' removed from you in this transaction.


I would have to disagree.....look up your civil code in regards to properties and latent defects. If yours is like mine, the seller is responsible for a latent defect so as long as you can prove the defect existed at the time the seller occupied the property - That is assuming you did not forego the legal warranty on title.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

My main point here is the transaction was conducted between 2 brokerage firms and 2 lawyers(acting for both seller and buyer)
Those dozen's of signatures that take place on the offer and the legal papers,protect almost everyone Except the buyer.
Only the op knows what he signed.
Once monies are released from trust account,between the 2 lawyers of both parties,your odds of success are Greatly reduced.
The seller is protected(i would be my life on it)legally once he signed a contract with his selling agent.
If there is any recourse,the op would have o file a lawsuit against whoever acted on his part and obviously if it came to that,the agent in question would notify his insurance(error's and omissions)
The reality is grim for the OP(trust me Mortgage u/w)
It is not easy in the op case.
Ironically if there were not professional agents involved in the transaction the op would have a better chance.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

To sue the agent, I think you would have to prove that they either knew or should have known about the issue. Of course they will either say they fully disclosed it to you or had no idea. You did hire a home inspector after all. Difficult to prove in court. However if you do believe or have information that could show that either the buying or selling agent knew of the rot, then you would have a case. Do you have a good relationship with your buying agent? As they may be able to help your case against the selling agent......but as I type this I am now realizing that you probably did not have a buying agent represent you....

Find out what it would actually cost to fix it properly and weight that against what you think you would get for the property 'as is'.

To sell to an elderly person, or a young family with children without knowingly disclosing issues that could harm their health, I would hope that you get sued afterwards for putting their health at risk.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

donald said:


> My main point here is the transaction was conducted between 2 brokerage firms and 2 lawyers(acting for both seller and buyer)
> Those dozen's of signatures that take place on the offer and the legal papers,protect almost everyone Except the buyer.
> Only the op knows what he signed.
> Once monies are released from trust account,between the 2 lawyers of both parties,your odds of success are Greatly reduced.
> ...


I am not sure how you are supporting your facts but if the seller is always protected, then why shouldn't the OP sell the house 'as is' and not disclose the problem?!? Would you not think someone would come knocking at his door should he commit such a dishonest transaction? I don't know where you are from Donald and/or if the laws in your region are different than mine.....but it seems rather sketchy to be able to sell a home to someone and not be held liable for any hidden defects afterwards. Can you provide some details of the laws in your area to contradict what I am saying?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't know all the facts in the op's case
In any event though....
I would suggest the op goes out and finds legal representation,
Than he can come back here and tell us how he successfully sue'd the seller
A person can litigate on a lot of matters,of course reality is always different!!!
Few cases ever get to the litigation stage anyways,I would bet my life the op' has little teeth in this matter but nobody is stoping him from counsel.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

I doubt he'd come back here.....looks like he's on the lam.
His story seems a little sketchy....and as you say, we don't have all the facts to offer much advice.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Mold can make you very sick and in some cases kill people ,I would be testing to find out what you are dealing with there.


My brother died of COPD complicated by living in a house that had black mold in the basement. He was hospitalized in 2005 and recovered after 5 weeks. I had visited him and stayed in the house. After 5 days, I felt so bad that I moved to a hotel. I recommended that he move to a care facility (on Yonge just north of Bloor). He declined and moved back "home". Four years later he returned to the hospital and after 5 weeks he passed on.

So I believe that the house killed him. When I sold it, it was as a tear down. This is nasty stuff.

And you can do a proper remediation. It will increase your cost basis in the house. But then the house is usable for the purpose you originally bought it. This avoids the substantial frictional costs of trading RE. When your needs change, then you can enter into an expensive trade like normal.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> I think if you can* resolve some issues as you said for $2500 -$3000 *the best and most ethical thing to do is disclose the issues.Getting insurance to help with temporary accommodations is positive for sure. Mold can make you very sick and in some cases kill people ,I would be testing to find out what you are dealing with there.


I read his first post Marina, and wonder if even that is going to work. It all depends on what kind of "dry rot" fungus is present in the house. and how far it has spread. Floor joists and wall studs don't just "dry rot" unless there is a significant amount of moisture getting in from the outside wall, that gets onto the wood and a whiteish fungus invades the wood, and there is sufficient moisture to keep it going. 



> Dry rot is the term given to brown rot decay caused by certain fungi that deteriorate timber in buildings and other wooden construction seemingly without an apparent source of moisture. The term is a misnomer *because all wood decaying fungi need a minimum amount of moisture before decay begins*.
> 
> The decayed wood takes on a dark or browner crumbly appearance, with cubical like cracking or checking, that becomes brittle and can eventually crush the wood into powder. Chemically, wood attacked by dry rot fungi is decayed by the same process as other brown rot fungi. *An outbreak of dry rot within a building can be perceived to be an extremely serious infestation that is hard to eradicate, requiring drastic remedies to correct*. Eventually the decay can cause instability and cause the structure to collapse.


This is critical situation because this fungus has to be completely eliminated either by a company that specializes in fungus/mold removal and disinfecting the entire house (not cheap by any stretch of the imagination), or a major rebuild of all 4 walls because IF a small amount is left unchecked/covered up, it will possibly start up again. 

And the other question is where did all that moisture to start the dry rot come in from? The roof (which
he replaced for $8K, or the walls (concrete block) or the foundation (concrete block?) that was not sealed
properly from the outside with a tar foundation coat and membrane. That also needs to be addressed not just
replacing the inner walls. If the source of the moisture is covered up again..in time it will come back. 

If it's all present in the house, the spores can circulate around from the heating system and find new places to establish it self. The problem for the O/P is that property insurance does not cover mold so it's a major
out of pocket expense to fix it. 



> In certain buildings, particularly those with solid 9 inch (or greater) brickwork and those built using lime *mortar and flintstone, dry rot has been known to travel through and along the wall surface behind plaster *and render. It is therefore recommended, by companies that sell this service, that where dry rot is found, plaster and wall coverings should be stripped back to a metre past the infestation in all directions and the whole area treated. However, given that dry rot attacks only wet timber, common sense should dictate that plaster need not be removed where there is no timber or any timber is dry (outside the zone of wetting that caused the outbreak)
> Identifying the source of water and allowing the affected timbers to dry will kill dry rot, as it is a fungus and requires water as all fungi do.


Black mold is when there is a lot of moisture present, in wet basements where water leaking in.

There may be both types of mold present.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

chaudi said:


> . It is a *home made house with thick walls of wood and concrete. All that wood is dry rotted, so when dampness comes along it flairs up.* even when *that is all gone i can not take out the frame which dry rot*.That should be not to bad that someone can live with.
> 
> As it is now is is about 1000 sq feet around me with the dry rot, but is separated with new insulation and vapour barrier but still comes through of course.


You mention "homemade", that means the house was probably not built properly, especially the ventilation and foundation drainage. 

Is this the *oldstyle cinderblock walls* with 2x4s/drywall on the inside to form the interior walls?
Unless it is ALL removed, (interior wall studs and the cinder block wall sealed properly from the outside, and the drainage and ventilation problem fixed..it will come back. 
Mold starts because moisture is getting in somehow and the building material is not dry or not allowed to dry out. 



> If it sold to a retired person, likely they will not notice or be bothered. Same with maybe a young couple with strong immunity.


That is a very bad assumption...a retired person with health problems will be suing you much faster for NON DISCLOSURE of MOLD!


> I have a suspicion they all know each other and i really got scammed.
> The contract never said anything about 'as is.' It just didn't have any conditions.


You think they played you for a sucker? Talk to a lawyer..that may be your only recourse now.

Just like a newer house that has been used for a "grow-op", this house with dry rot fungi (and possibly black mold) 
is a serious health problem to anyone that lives in it for any length of time. If you cover up the mold by removing it partially and add new insulation, it will more than likely come back. 

You have to determine what the real problem is in the house for the mold to get started..fungus such as 'dry rot" takes years to destroy the wood. If the walls are concrete (not sealed properly) the moisture will pass right
through the cinder block walls making the space inside the 2x4 frame damp..inviting mold. 

It was there before you bought it, and chances are it will continue to spread after you sell it to some unsuspecting
buyer. Even if they hire a house inspector..the house inspector can't always find it, unless walls are taken apart.


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## amitdi (May 31, 2012)

donald said:


> I don't know all the facts in the op's case
> In any event though....
> I would suggest the op goes out and finds legal representation,
> Than he can come back here and tell us how he successfully sue'd the seller
> ...


The seller is "legally liable" for any latent defect as long as the defect existed and the seller was aware of it. awareness is important. if the seller can prove that he wasnt aware, then he can "get away". and i dont think there is a limit on any time period after the sale.


the source of my knowledge is the book - "Put The Pen Down! What Homebuyers And Sellers Need To Know Before Signing On The Dotted Line"
Everyone who is planning to buy/sell should read this book once. The book also mentions a similar case where the seller had smelly basement due to some issues (dont remember) and didnt do anything about it (he just used to spreay room freshener). He was sued and found gulty after few years because the court said the seller should have investigated the smell instead of just ignoring it.


Anyway, what I wanted to say was the OP has some case against the seller.


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## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

Yes it should work when i take all the old wood out. You have to consider how much wood this is, it is 10 inch' blocks of firewood and concrete. That was the problem the concrete absorbs water, it is dry but rotten. So you have 10' high walls all around that is all fungus but _separated by a new wall, insulation and vapour barrier. _It will come out easily. There is a frame that holds the house up. All that wood will probably fill a dumpster. You are right the frame is a bit fruity but solid, it will breath outward. Once the new frame is attached to it with nail guns it will be very strong. Many older houses have wood that is bit water damaged, particularly roofs are often not replace for a long time. So i doubt the little bit of frame will cause any problems.
Since i am a carpenter and know people who will work hard for $30/hr and i can get it all done in 1-2 weeks for 3k or so plus material and dumpage, it will be under 5k for sure.
So, is it worth suing for 5k? Could i get the money for the already replaced roof? probably not.
Since i had to leave the house do think i should fill a insurance claim? I called them already they said they need to send someone there, but i am not around but i could get someone else to let them in. Not sure about the rules but the house is in a state of disrepair maybe they will null the insurance? My guess so. It would be nice to get $1200 a month for rent, but since i am traveling i suspect they want like a rent receipt? I guess i can claim when i come back, but then it will evidence about the house if i sell it...

Cowen, there is no way i would move back into the house, even when it's fixed. That story about your brother was crazy, why on earth would he move back in there? why would the drs allow it? I take it he was a smoker?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

May I offer some suggestions from the viewpoint of someone with 40 years experience as renovator, buyer and seller of houses, and landlord?

First off, it is very difficult and expensive to sue anyone. It can take years and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you probably won't get anything out of it. Especially in this case as it has been two years since you bought the house. If you want to be sure, you could consult a lawyer but having been involved in some real estate law suits, I advise you to keep out of court even if you have a good case, which you don't.

The best suggestion I can offer is to have the house completely inspected by a home inspector, or your local building inspector, and find out what needs to be done to put the house in good condition. Estimate the complete cost, or get an estimate from a contractor.

Now you have to make a decision in the light of all the facts. Do you want to keep the house? Are you willing to do the work, and spend the money to do it right? Is it even possible to make a good house out of it?

It may be that the problem is not as big as you think. It may be that it can be fixed without too much added expense, and proper ventilation will prevent it happening again.

On the other hand, it might be more than the house is worth or you might be fed up and just want out.

In that case I suggest you sell the property for whatever you can get for it. Disclose any problems and make sure the buyer knows about them, and acknowledges them. Your real estate agent will be able to do the disclosure in the proper form, this is standard in real estate deals these days.

It is better to take a loss and move on, do not waste your time and worry yourself to death, or waste your money trying to fix something that cannot be fixed. Or try to cheat someone and end up getting sued yourself.

You have to find out the facts, and make up your mind then either fix the place or get out of it with the least loss you can manage. You say you bought the place cheap, it might be you can break even or get out with a small loss.

We all make mistakes. I have made some beauts. But they don't have to hold you back or ruin your life. Deal with it or dump it and move on, there are plenty of good houses and good deals out there just waiting for you.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

There is one other angle that might be worth looking into. That is, to find a house for sale by a contractor or renovator, and offer your property as a down payment.

The right party might be willing to take the place off your hands even if it needs to be demolished and a new house built on the lot, especially if they have a house for sale that is not moving.

Sometimes this works, could be worth a try. What have you got to lose?


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

chaudi said:


> Cowen, there is no way i would move back into the house, even when it's fixed. That story about your brother was crazy, why on earth would he move back in there? why would the drs allow it? I take it he was a smoker?


Yes he was a pipe smoker. The doctors and other health care workers all recommended a care facility. But they could not force it. The one I found was $1900/mo and had a mens' workshop and a billiard room. Walking distance to Bloor-Yonge subway. I would have been happy there! He did the math on after tax expenses. So it was our tax system that killed him (plus the belief that he could recover each time in the hospital). But he got too weak to undergo the surgery.

I am taking my COPD seriously with two meds. and I am now 3 years older than he was when he died.

On your house insurance, I think you will find that the condition existed when you bought the house and was not declared when they granted coverage.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

kcowan said:


> Yes he was a pipe smoker. The doctors and other health care workers all recommended a care facility. But they could not force it. The one I found was $1900/mo and had a mens' workshop and a billiard room. Walking distance to Bloor-Yonge subway. I would have been happy there! He did the math on after tax expenses. So it was our tax system that killed him (plus the belief that he could recover each time in the hospital). But he got too weak to undergo the surgery.
> 
> I am taking my COPD seriously with two meds. and I am now 3 years older than he was when he died.
> 
> On your house insurance, I think you will find that the condition existed when you bought the house and was not declared when they granted coverage.


Looking after your health costs money but the doctor costs nothing so.....


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## Davis (Nov 11, 2014)

A pipe-smoker choosing to live in a joules contaminating house, and you think the tax system killed him? Would that be the tax system that was paying for his repeated hospital visits?


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I would be curious to hear what the local municipal building inspector gives you feedback on.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Dry rot and black mold are two different things. There are literally millions of kinds of mold and only 80 that are known to cause health issues. 

The first thing to do is to give your head a shake and then get someone in to test your air quality and what kind of mold you have. 

In any case it's not the mold that's dangerous but the spores that are poisonous. So spores are not magical they don't travel through drywall and plaster and vapor barriers. Dry rot is a structural problem. So you need to first identify the mold issue and then resolve it. 

I'm so annoyed by this thread, I can't even believe it. If there is something dangerous in the house you want to sue the seller or sell it to someone else.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

Selling it to someone else, knowing there is a health issue, could have serious financial consequences. Aside from that, how could you live with yourself knowing you were exposing other people (including children) to dangerous mould?


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## CharlesF.Donahue (Jan 7, 2015)

NotMe said:


> Be careful with the sunk cost fallacy; I personally think if you can get out by breaking even with your mental health in check, that might be the best option. Would not recommend trying to hide for the next guy, they will sue you. Sell it as DIY, break even or a small loss, move on with your day.


I think it is a good advice for you, you should sell it as DIY. It is not good to hide it for the next guy as done with you.


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## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, the problem has been solved, the offending wood has been removed Nobody notices any smell when they come into the house, Part of the problem in this story is that i am very allergic to mold. What i have learned is some people are not allergic at all will not have a problem living in the house or even basement apartment which are much worse. It is just old house smell, mustiness in some structure wood, cedar. But not good for someone with allergies.

What i can tell old houses like this are sold every day. My basement is bone dry and does not have any odor, many people rent moldy basement or sell houses with wet basements which obviously have some mold. The problem is in some of the floor joist and roof beams some of the gables upstairs when it rains or get humid you can smell it a bit. It's not a structural hazard but my allergies act up. What i can tell is many old houses are like this, repaired water damage. They don't remove structure lumber unless it is rot, this wood is not rot just musty a type of fungus exists. 

I am thinking of selling the house myself. Obviously there has been extensive renovation done to the house which i will have to explain. Good thing is the market is very low inventory, so i guess i can sell it without any conditions and not sign a disclosure? I'll have to talk to a lawyer. It's a shame because this houses is really nice now, everything is basically new, with open concept, vaulting ceiling, sky lights, new hardwood. i don't see why i shouldn't get full price, good think the market has picked up, so i will have made some money off this house, despite being a royal pain the a$$. 
Then again it is likely that the new owners will move in and after a while,notice something odd and then start a thread on the forum titled "Musty smell in the house we just bought..."


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I believe you still have to disclose. If you don't, and later it can be proved you knew, you can be held liable. 

If you disclose and they accept it, you're fine.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

If you still have a musty smell in the house, it is possible you did not remove all the infected wood. Mold spores are living organisms which will feed off organic matter (wood, paper, etc). Any spores remaining will begin to multiply rapidly and you will be back to square one. 

I hope your repair was done by a competent decontamination company and not just a handy guy. Specialized companies will know exactly what needs to be replaced and what can stay but simply decontaminated (there are special sprays and paints that kill the spores). The company will also provide you a before and after air quality test. If you did not get one, I recommend you do as this is the only way you can prove to others that the mold problem has been solved and is no longer a health hazard. You definitively need to disclose the issue and repairs done, otherwise, you will be liable. I am surprised you did not go after the previous owner since this is clearly a case of latent defect. 

Lastly, I hope you also solved the source of the mold which is usually a water infiltration or high humidity isolated within a poor ventilated space.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> I think if you can resolve some issues as you said for $2500 -$3000 the best and most ethical thing to do is disclose the issues.Getting insurance to help with temporary accommodations is positive for sure.Mold can make you very sick and in some cases kill people ,I would be testing to find out what you are dealing with there.


If it is black mold, it can be quite hazardous to ones health and must be disclosed when attempting to sell. pulling out the drywall, insulation and studs is a major job, and at todays prices can't be done for $2500-$3000. 

That barely covers just finishing a basement recroom these days.

Depending on how bad the dry rot/mold is in that house, it could cost as much as $30,000 to remove it now.
It depends on why the basement has so much moisture in the first place..bad drainage around the foundation and moisture seeping into the brickwork or foundation when it rain would be my guess.



> *Signs of Black Mold*
> To tell if black mold may be growing in your home, just follow your nose. A musty, earthy smell, like dirt and rotting leaves, is a telltale sign of mold's presence. Stachybotrys smells especially strong. All molds need food, water and a dark, stagnant environment with temperatures that neither freeze nor boil to grow. Stachybotrys likes it a little wetter than some, feeding on water-saturated cellulose-based material such as cotton, wicker, drywall, lumber, cardboard and even dust or lint. If your home has flooded or you notice excessive moisture on or around building materials, possibly even dark rings on drywall indicating moisture damage, the conditions are ripe for black mold. The smell almost guarantees mold. But even if you see mold, that's no guarantee that it's black mold.



If the drainage system is bad, that could add another $5,000 or more, to bring it up to code.

Depending on the prices of homes in that area, the new owner could sell "as is" but would have to disclose that the home has "dry rot' or black mold present in the real estate agreement, and reduce the price of the home significantly
because of that. 
It will be hard to find prospective buyers, with that kind of problem present to pay asking price,
because breathing air with black mold spores can endanger your health.


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## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

chaudi said:


> When i sell i will move to an apartment and keep my address private. That way they will not be able to find me if they think to sue.



You sound like an outstanding human being. I have no idea why karma bit you in the ***.


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## amitdi (May 31, 2012)

chaudi said:


> When i sell i will move to an apartment and keep my address private. That way they will not be able to find me if they think to sue.


Way to go and pull over a blanket over your head just to be safe.


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