# How to cross T.O. crosswalks with young kids (and make it to the other side)



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I need advice - I often use a nearby crosswalk with my kids to get to a nearby park. It is the single most dangerous activity we do as a family. While the vast majority of drivers are great - it's fairly common for drivers to either be not paying attention and will drive through the cross walk right in front of us or they will do whatever they can to try to 'beat' you through the crosswalk. I guess they figure that as long as their lane is still open, they have a right to try to make it through. I've even seen drivers move over and drive on the wrong wide of the road to get around us (in front or behind us) rather than stopping or even just slowing down for a few seconds.

Needless to say, this induces great stress in me to the point where I'm thinking that waiting for a good break in traffic and just jaywalking will likely be a lot safer. I don't want to encourage the kids to jaywalk however.

One thing I've seen sometimes is a person will wait on the side of the road until all traffic stops before crossing. I've always thought this was a bit of a waste of time, but I'm wondering if this is a better way to go?

There is a traffic light we can use to cross, but it's an extra block away so the crosswalk is a lot more convenient (if we can make it safe enough).

Any thoughts?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm there with you, at a different crosswalk though. At the beginning of the school year, typically a police officer is posted to the crosswalk to try and curb bad driver behaviour at that particular crosswalk. 

Typically I wait until ALL traffic is clear before I cross with the kids. I've never thought of it as a waste of time particularly when light conditions are changing. 

p.s. I think pedestrians should dress for visibility - just like cyclists. However, I wear cycling "gear" and have lights on my bike...not so with my regular winter jacket! Sometimes I carry a flashlight when walking in the dark.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, I was almost hit by a car that blew a red light fully 5 seconds after I had a WALK signal this morning. I would be dead now if I didn't check the traffic and ensure everyone would stop. This guy didn't slow, brake or anything.

OK so I wasted 5 seconds of my life by waiting for him to run his red. I'm still alive so I figure I'm ahead. 

And to the point about visibility above, I was wearing a reflective safety vest. Essential equipment for walking in darkness. Be seen and walk very carefully. Too much to lose by tangling with motor vehicles regardless of who is "right".


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

If it were me, I'd walk the extra block to the traffic light.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sounds like it's time to petition for a speed bump!

As a pedestrian even crossing at intersections, I won't step into the street until I'm confident that the oncoming traffic is slowing to a stop (maybe not waiting for complete stop, but make sure they are braking and not traveling too fast). I do this because I regularly see people run red lights or overshoot the intersection through the crosswalk. Same goes for right turners. Sometimes they are looking left at oncoming traffic. I wait for eye contact before stepping in front of them.

My approach is: I don't want to die. I may have the right of way, but that's cold comfort if I get mowed down by a distracted driver.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

The reflective tape is a great idea - I notice that a lot of pedestrians are very hard to see in the dusk or dark because of their clothes (dogs, too!).

However, the problem you state is a serious one - I would not use a crosswalk with kids that was causing idiots to risk their lives. Getting police to monitor the crosswalk is not going to work, long-term - they always have something more urgent to do, eventually. I would just use the traffic light.

But my mom - she would have news crews at the scene - she would take pictures (obviously, with flash) of each miscreant, and when she would carry a big stick with which to hammer the hoods of cars. A BIG, BIG stick. She would lunge into the crosswalk with her arms outstretched, and woe betide the person who got out of his car to argue with her.

How much drama do you want in your life? :apathy:


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

@MG - If you wait, does the traffic just keep going through or do they stop? IE do you wait to press the button until traffic is clear? 

By time wasting, I mean wasted time for the drivers.

Visibility is an issue. However, our cross walk is very well lit and the flashing lights should be very visible.

@Royal @Andrew - Yes, I've gotten a lot more cautious at every intersection. You just can't be sure that people are going to stop, even at a red light.

@Retire Peasant - That option is definitely on the table.

@Wendi - I need to borrow your mom.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

I'd take the cross walk, but be damn sure that all traffic is stopped before I start crossing. It takes a few more seconds, but it might save a life.

It's a good lesson for kids to learn early anyway. Just because you have the right of way, don't assume traffic will automatically stop. It's up to you to be sure it's clear to cross. Cross walk or not.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I think you just need to borrow Wendi's mom's stick! "Walk visibly, and carry Wendi's mom's stick." 

No flashing lights at the crosswalk I'm thinking of - four-way stop and unmarked. I wasn't thinking of the flashing lights one. I can say as a driver I kind of hate those crosswalks because in my opinion there's a lot of bad/distracted/overconfident pedestrians at them - traffic is NOT going to halt instantly just because you pressed a button and depending on the lighting conditions, it's possible I'm not even going to see the flashing lights!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

I sometimes find it difficult to understand if the person is just standing there or waiting. What is common in other countries is to reach out your arm to signal that you intend to walk. Wait until you have eye contact and then proceed.

That or carry bricks:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2009/stories/old-man-attacks-red-light-violators-cars-bricks.html


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

Play in the backyard, instead :|


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

4 Pillars, I would lend her to you if she were still alive. :upset: She never minded helping out.

But the point is valid - do you take the low stress avoidance way (like me), arguably increasing the amount of uncivilized behaviour in the city, or do you channel your inner warrior and MAKE THEM STOP!

Your choice, for sure - I can't tell you she never got into fist fights, but the police (when called) seemed oddly reluctant to charge her, even when she had clearly swung first.

The world is less interesting place without her.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> There is a traffic light we can use to cross......


Definitely this one!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

wendi1 said:


> 4 Pillars, I would lend her to you if she were still alive. :upset: She never minded helping out.
> 
> But the point is valid - do you take the low stress avoidance way (like me), arguably increasing the amount of uncivilized behaviour in the city, or do you channel your inner warrior and MAKE THEM STOP!
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear she's not around anymore.

I think the reality is that yelling or confronting someone (or hitting their car with a big stick) probably doesn't really do much in the way of education anyway.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

@Xoron - Yes, I think that is what we will try.

@MG - Good idea! Yes, I should have clarified - this is a full fledge cross walk, not exactly at an intersection. No other traffic lights.

There are some dumb pedestrians out there for sure. Dark rainy night and they have their best dark grey/black outfit and top hat on...

@none - We're supposed to put our arms out here too. We haven't been doing that, but maybe we'll start. Eye contact is hard to make sometimes.

I don't think I'm old enough to do the brick method yet...

@Echo - Once the rink is up and running again, that's just what we'll do. 

@T.Gal - I might try the light, although I'm sure I'll find something to complain about that intersection as well.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Not sure how much people traffic/use at that cross-walk and whether it's close to a school? If it is close to the school, you may want to ask the school to figure something out and if enough kids uses it, try asking parents in the neighbourhood to volunteer to be a cross-walk guard- maybe parents taking turn in the week for a couple hours in the morning and a couple hours after-school?

PS: I would be more careful about boarding/unboarding a TTC streetcar - some drivers (more frequent now) just do NOT stop. They're too fixated in getting through the yellow-light. :frown:


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## 6811 (Jan 1, 2013)

none said:


> I sometimes find it difficult to understand if the person is just standing there or waiting. What is common in other countries is to reach out your arm to signal that you intend to walk. Wait until you have eye contact and then proceed.
> 
> That or carry bricks:
> http://www.chinasmack.com/2009/stories/old-man-attacks-red-light-violators-cars-bricks.html


Back in my navy days in Halifax traffic would come to a stop whenever a pedestrian even looked like they wanted to cross. Don't know if it's still that way there but it certainly is not in Ottawa/Gatineau today.


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