# change esp-the penny



## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

So it happens to me about every 2 weeks,between my 2 coffee stops(a day)-a few bottles of water-grocery shopping-going out on the town with cash ect i end up accumulating dollars and dollars of change.

My truck gets full of change because i always need plenty of nickels,dimes and pennys because i always need them on hand and it drives me nuts!(wish everything was rounded off to atleast 5&10s)

I hate change.Wish canada wouldnt deal with loonies,toonies ect,also feels like you mistakenly spend more because (atleast i do)seem to treat change different than paper.When i lived in grand cayman islands i use to love how ci currency had 1 dollar bills anyways.Exess change=frustration

What do you guys do with all your change?Do you have a system?basic change jars?Do you accumulate then bring it to your bank?Anybody else hate the damn loonies and toonies lol


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

My system is simple. You have to use change to prevent from getting more change. What this means is you need to be ready with your handful of coins so that when the amount comes to $4.27 you hand them $5.02 so you get 3 quarters back. Otherwise you'll end up with two quarters, two dimes and three pennies to add to your collection. My way means I drop two pennies and reduce the change. Over many smaller transactions this certainly adds up. I use all my change.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

IMHO loonies and toonies were the smartest currency move the mint has made in decades. So you wont get sympathy from me there. 

The penny is obsolete and should be done away with.

Pretty soon we will all get implanted debit chips and cash will be dead anyway.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Being in the hobby of metal detecting I love loonies,toonies can't wait for the five. LOL


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I usually try to do that but when your on the go or thinking about other things sometimes i dont even want to bother rifling through my pocket and figuring on the spot.

Why did the canadian government decide on the toonie?im guessing because of the cost of production?Paper is more expensive?USD has paper $1 why do we have our system?I would think society would be better off with paper bills and the least amt of change as possible.(prob doesnt matter because in 20yrs im sure we will be very close to a cashless society)


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Why do you like it greatguru?I think its the shits all these coins.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

donald said:


> Why did the canadian government decide on the toonie?im guessing because of the cost of production?Paper is more expensive?


Not the cost of production, but the lifespan of the currency. I don't know the exact figures, but a Loonie / Toonie can stay in circulation much longer than the $1 and $2 bills they replaced.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The average time in circulation for $1 bills in the US is 21 months. The stuff just gets destroyed. 

I spend my change like TRM because I hate the idea of amassing big buckets of change that you'll eventually spend an hour or two sorting and rolling and going to a bank branch with.

So, yeah, I'd be okay with getting rid of the penny and possibly the nickel and just rounding cash transactions. If we got rid of the nickel you'd also have to replace quarters with 50 cent pieces.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

That system andrew would be beautiful!Id love to have 50c pieces.I think change also has to be one of the dirtest things in the world....imagine the life story a penny fr 1901 could tell?lol....could of been half way around the world multiple times....the changing of pockets...through wars you name it.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

donald said:


> What do you guys do with all your change?Do you have a system?basic change jars?Do you accumulate then bring it to your bank?Anybody else hate the damn loonies and toonies lol


it accumulates in my ashtray of my car

once a week or so, I will encounter a lineup at McD's for my $1.67 coffee/muffin, and that wait time is spent counting up the pennies... sometimes over 50 cents of what I give them will be pennies
no biggie for me.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

donald said:


> What do you guys do with all your change?Do you have a system?basic change jars?Do you accumulate then bring it to your bank?Anybody else hate the damn loonies and toonies lol


I don't mind change at all. I try to do what TRM does, and get rid of my change, however, I do find some of the clerks not the brightest bulbs on the tree. For example, today I bought something for $3.15, I gave her a $5 and 3 nickles. Logic would say I should get a toonie, instead, I get a loonie, and 3 quarters, a dime, and my 3 nickles back.  I didn't even know what to think. I had to count it twice. Normally, it's not this bad though.

Usually I throw my change in my wallet (I have a large coin section). When it gets too full, I drop it in a jar. I use it for allowance for my kidlet, so that works well for her to learn the different denominations. My spouse puts all his change at the end of day in a jar. When the jar gets filled, we roll it up, and then put all the rolls in a shoe box. I was feeling like we had way to many expenditures over a particular month, so we brought the money in. Last time I think I brought in $1400 to the bank, for years worth of coins.


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## petea4 (Dec 24, 2010)

I toss my change into a large jar. All coins.

When it's full, I take it to my local TD branch and dump it in their coin counter/sorter thingy. It spits out the rejects too. The machine kicks out a receipt which can be cashed at the counter or deposited in your account. No extra service fee. 

No sorting or rolling. Easy peasy.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I just leave all my change on the counter. It just seems to disappear.

Must be the "change fairy"................


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Up until a while ago, Tim Hortons was the only place I needed cash. Now even they accept debit. I use debit to avoid carrying a wad of cash, but also so I can easily download my transactions from my bank to Quicken. I hate having to manually enter cash transactions. 

For those rare occasions when I do need cash, I would prefer not having to pick through a bunch of pennies, nickels and dimes.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Change: The bane of people who don't like math! Should the penny go? You can make a lot of good points on why it should, but it's an icon. Well maybe icon is the wrong word, but you get my point, there is a lot of emotion tied up in it. I never have more than 10 cents in pennies on me, it's easy to dump them off, just do a little math at the till.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I'd definitely be in favor of eliminating the penny. Of course the ones in circulation would still be legal tender, but they'd stop making more. And have shops round to the nearest 5c (or go crazy and round to the nearest 10c). A lot of people feel that the shops would "rip them off" if this system was implemented, though. One of my friends is a very smart guy and he's extremely against this because he's sure the stores would always round up. Of course this is not true - it would be legislated that you have to round to the closest, whether that's up or down. And with debit/credit rounding would not be required, only with cash. That's how it works in Sweden, and people there seem happy with the system.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Our local grocery store has 4 auto checkout stations that accept coins. So I go there with my accumulated change and get rid of it all in one fell swoop. Because it is a single queue, there is no one waiting behind me. We also use twoonies for the bus and loonies for the washer/dryer. I buy a roll of loonies for washing.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> I'd definitely be in favor of eliminating the penny. Of course the ones in circulation would still be legal tender, but they'd stop making more. And have shops round to the nearest 5c (or go crazy and round to the nearest 10c). A lot of people feel that the shops would "rip them off" if this system was implemented, though. One of my friends is a very smart guy and he's extremely against this because he's sure the stores would always round up. Of course this is not true - it would be legislated that you have to round to the closest, whether that's up or down. And with debit/credit rounding would not be required, only with cash. That's how it works in Sweden, and people there seem happy with the system.


Sure, and businesses couldn't alter prices to make sure it's always going to get rounded up?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I save all my loonies and toonies in a small wooden chest. Looks like a pirates chest. I save my other change in a change jar. Before the loonie and toonie, I would do the tiresome activity of counting and rolling up my change (they have inexpensive machines for the counting and sorting now). The thing was maybe I would get $100 or $150 in change after a year or so. Not bad.

Now with the loonies and toonies, the last time I rolled it all up it was about *$1,400 *for saving change for maybe a couple of years. That's real money. I took up fishing and have used it to pay for all my boat, motor, fishing gear, lures, etc. It helps that I like fixing up old boats and motors as well and puts an inexpensive budget on the activity (the sky is the limit in this sport like most others).

In any event, the toonie and loonie has certainly given a big boost to the traditional change jar.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

crazyjackcsa said:


> Sure, and businesses couldn't alter prices to make sure it's always going to get rounded up?


Well, for individual items they could. But if you're buying a basket of items at the grocery store I don't see how they could. And really, does it matter if your stereo costs 3 cents more than it would have otherwise?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ You could always pay with debit or credit and pay to the penny.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

donald said:


> What do you guys do with all your change?Do you have a system?


I have a system. It's called a Credit Card.

And for those shops that don't accept credit, it's called a Debit Card.



the-royal-mail said:


> My system is simple. You have to use change to prevent from getting more change. What this means is you need to be ready with your handful of coins so that when the amount comes to $4.27 you hand them $5.02 so you get 3 quarters back. Otherwise you'll end up with two quarters, two dimes and three pennies to add to your collection. My way means I drop two pennies and reduce the change. Over many smaller transactions this certainly adds up. I use all my change.


Wow.  

My system is simpler.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

andrewf said:


> ^ You could always pay with debit or credit and pay to the penny.


Didn't see this post.

But yes, andrewf. You've got it. 

Plus... I get rewards. Change doesn't give you rewards.

Why people still use real money, I will NEVER understand. Ever. It's idiotic.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Didn't see this post.
> 
> But yes, andrewf. You've got it.
> 
> ...


I guess you've never heard: "Cash is King" Far easier to negotiate price with cash, some places "gasp" still only deal in cash (flea markets) I don't know any private citizen that will accept debit card if I buy something from him (kijiji deals and the like) Dealing with change is easy, if you put a little thought into it.

Credit card/debit card machines can go down, PINs can be copied, identity can be stolen. Out in the wilderness? Middle of nowhere? Cash is the thing. 

Why people drive little cars I will NEVER understand. Ever. It's idiotic.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Yep, I use debit/credit whenever I can too. Don't accumulate much change.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

donald said:


> Why do you like it greatguru?I think its the shits all these coins.


1. Life-Cycle cost. I can't find the Canadian figures, but the average lifespan of a US $1 bill is 21 months. I think coins are about 20 years.

2. They're water proof and fire proof. 

3. Inflation. A dollar today is worth what a quarter was around 1975, and what a dime was sometime in the 50's. The other solution would have been to re-value the dollar by a factor of 10. But I don't see that happening unless the US does.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow. As usual, the anti-cash crowd rears its ugly head. Not surprising considering Kae works for a bank.

Cash is quick and convenient. There's a reason Tim Hortons only accepts cash. It is universal and free to use.

If I owe my buddy $10 for something I can't hand him a debit or credit card, Kae.

When I'm in a hurry at lunch time, it does me no good when I have to wait in line behind 5 other people who are all using debit cards to pay for $10 worth of lunch because they were too lazy to go to the bank to get some cash for the week.

Furthermore, the real push for cashlessness is coming from the banks, who fee us to death. They're just wringing their hands in glee at all the fools who think plastic methods are better. Once cash is eliminated they'll have us all over a barrel and will charge us whatever fees they like.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

donald said:


> ...
> 
> Why did the canadian government decide on the toonie?im guessing because of the cost of production?Paper is more expensive?USD has paper $1 why do we have our system?...


Unlike the US, Canada had a long tradition of issuing 2 dollar bills. So when coin became more cost-effective than paper due to inflation, it made sense to replace the $2 bill with a coin as well as the $1 bill.

Most of the Western European countries went to coin in place of small denomination bills a long time ago because of life-cycle cost.


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## Syph007 (May 2, 2011)

I keep $40 in paper money in my wallet, and never use it. Credit card always so I can pay if off biweekly and never pay interest yet get the rewards. Tims used to be the only thing I needed cash for, but now I use that auto reload card they have. I love not 'needing' to use cash. It's dirty and unnecessary for me. When people ask if I can spare some change.. I can't!


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

the-royal-mail said:


> Cash is quick and convenient. There's a reason Tim Hortons only accepts cash. It is universal and free to use.





Syph007 said:


> I keep $40 in paper money in my wallet, and never use it. Credit card always so I can pay if off biweekly and never pay interest yet get the rewards. Tims used to be the only thing I needed cash for, but now I use that auto reload card they have. I love not 'needing' to use cash. It's dirty and unnecessary for me. When people ask if I can spare some change.. I can't!


I'm not sure where you guys live, but here in the Tri-City area (Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo - Ontario), the Tim Horton's have had debit installed for at least a year or more. It makes it a lot more convenient for me to pick one up on the way to work.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I think each of the points above can be made for either the cash-only crowd or the plastic-only crowd. For instance:

@ Speed of payments - there are shoppers that fumble with credit/debit cards, entering the new PIN codes, etc. Similarly, there are people that seem to take an eternity counting pennies and dimes.

@ Bank fees - yes, they want to fee us to death for using plastic. But, at the same time, most of the Big 5 banks these days have limits on how many debit withdrawals you can make in a month. So you either need to withdraw all your cash at one shot and carry it around, increasing your risk, or pay their monthly debit fee per transaction.
There is also a limit to the amount of cash you can withdraw at one time, for security reasons.

Also, as a cash only user, you are overpaying vis-a-vis the plastic users since the reward kickbacks and visa fees are built into the price of goods and services. Therefore, the system is self preserving and ever expanding.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Want to make friends with your corner store? Ask them if they want your change...they have to pay for it at the bank. Plus it saves them some trouble of going to get it and bring it back.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Go to any retailer late in the day and buy their change. Loonies, twoonies and quarters. They need the float at the beginning of the day but never at the end.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

crazyjackcsa said:


> some places "gasp" still only deal in cash (flea markets) I don't know any private citizen that will accept debit card if I buy something from him (kijiji deals and the like)


Obviously you need paper money in these situations, but the original post was about receiving change from stores.



the-royal-mail said:


> Wow. As usual, the anti-cash crowd rears its ugly head. Not surprising considering Kae works for a bank.
> 
> Cash is quick and convenient. There's a reason Tim Hortons only accepts cash. It is universal and free to use.
> 
> ...


I was this way before I worked at a bank, TRM. It just makes sense. 

Tim Hortons accepts debit.

When I owe my buddies money, I usually just buy them something on my credit card of the same value when we go out. But to each their own. If you wanted to actually give him $10, you will need cash.

As for the fees from the banks... As someone has mentioned numerous times, you are paying these fees whether you use cash or not. It's baked into the price of goods. Might as well use a rewards card and get 1% cashback, while earning another 1% on that money for a month before you need to give it up.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I agree with the rewards-i never looked @ it before last month(with rbc)You can even use point to get money to apply to a rrsp(i think its 60k points=$500)


I was checking it you can even get a set of nike clubs,coffee puck machines,tons of stuff)

Plus after 60k(avion)pretty sure you can get round trip to europe,35k-round trip NA excluding alaska....Makes sense.

Hey kae id like to look into BMO there promoting new clients either $500 cash back to switch or 250 free trades on investments accts-Thats alot of freaking free trades 9.99x250-whats the catch on that,do you know?Is it that cut and dry or is there more to the story.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

donald said:


> Hey kae id like to look into BMO there promoting new clients either $500 cash back to switch or 250 free trades on investments accts-Thats alot of freaking free trades 9.99x250-whats the catch on that,do you know?Is it that cut and dry or is there more to the story.


If you're talking about switching to BMO InvestorLine, I believe its only $250 or 250 free trades. Not $500 in cash, only $250.

And as for the catch, I believe you have to open the account with $100,000 worth of assets. Other than that, it's cut and dry. So, if you have $100,000 worth of assets to switch over to BMO... I guess it would be worth it.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

My bad ya i read that wrong....everytime i enter cmf that bmo ad stares me in the face....also 4c cheaper on a trade than rbc if im thinking right 9.95.

Rbc offers nothing like that to attract new clients....seems like a no brainer.


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## jambo411 (Apr 6, 2009)

Local store won't take debit for a coffee, the fee is too high. Also we have two or three major power outages a year here, sometimes lasting days. Cash can be used to buy food at the local store as they have a gen set for store lights but debit machines don't work.

Also try buying a load of firewood with a card.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

crazyjackcsa said:


> Sure, and businesses couldn't alter prices to make sure it's always going to get rounded up?



This is a red herring. Shops will price to compete with their competition. Mind you it makes it lot easier to "round" when the VAT is built into the retail price as it is in Europe. Things are just priced in increments of 5 cents or whatever their smallest coin is.

Try to remember that 5 cents today has the same purchasing power as a penny did in 1973. So why are we agonizing over whether it gets rounded up or down 5 cents?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> This is a red herring. Shops will price to compete with their competition. Mind you it makes it lot easier to "round" when the VAT is built into the retail price as it is in Europe. Things are just priced in increments of 5 cents or whatever their smallest coin is.


Actually they still have pennies and 2cent coins and 5cent coins and 10cent, 20cent, 50cent UGH 1 Euro and 2 Euro. I carry a coin organizer for Euros

The price rounded off with VAT built in is very handy though. Whenever I buy something like a coffee it's a flat rate, none of this penny BS every transaction. There's only certain thrifty stores where you need the pennies

Many places in Europe are still cash only, no merchant fee BS. Electronic transactions are also free


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

The Swiss Franc has been around $1CDN for some time. They continued producing the 1 rappen (equivalent to our penny) coin unil 2006, but it started to go out of use after 1975 according to Wikipedia. (Although their currency is apparently "on par" with our dollar, their cost of living is about double. So their rappen is really only "worth" about half a cent in purchasing power.)

The French 1 centime (~ 0.15 eurocents), rarely circulated (last production stopped around 1982 due to high production cost, and lack of demand due to its very low value).

Because the Euro was set at a higher value compared to US$, the Euro cent is not quite so valueless. Neverthess Wikipedia reports "In order to avoid the use of the two smallest coins, some cash transactions are rounded to the nearest five cents in the Netherlands (by voluntary agreement) and in Finland (by law).[17] It sounds like they are having the same debate over the centt as we are.


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