# $12 million inheritance



## Esco (Aug 8, 2016)

Hi everybody,

So lets say you suddenly got a $12 million inheritance payout. What would be the safest way to invest all this money assuming I want at least a 5 to 10% dividend rate. The investments have to be as diverse and safe as possible. I've been looking at Canadian bank stocks and so far they look very attractive because of the tax break you get. Energy stocks I like as well.

Any advice??


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I think our forum is getting hit with a "posters for hire" biz to drum up activity.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Possibly but I don't think in this case as the OP joined in 2016 - August.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Esco said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> So lets say you suddenly got a $12 million inheritance payout. What would be the safest way to invest all this money assuming I want at least a 5 to 10% dividend rate. The investments have to be as diverse and safe as possible. I've been looking at Canadian bank stocks and so far they look very attractive because of the tax break you get. Energy stocks I like as well.
> 
> Any advice??


 ... I think you need to hire a HNW-adviser to give you *appropriate* advice. Ain't gonna to find it here on a DIY board with a 12,000,000 bucks inheritance.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

^ considering people get paid 1% of assets for advice please send an etransfer to my email address in the amount of 120k.

"10% dividend rate and safe" i think you should obtain more knowledge first based on this quote. 

secondly, you could literally put it into gics and live off the interest forever. assuming 12 mill - pay off house and any other debts, top up registered plans for tax free gains/deferrals, if you have kids get some funds in their RESPs. 

at an average GIC ladder of 3% you are looking at 360k per year in interest income if done will the full amount.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Contradiction in terms..........A "5-10% dividend return" and "diverse and safe".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Put it in GICs and get a steady guaranteed return..............and probably a cake on your birthday.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If it were me, I would buy Berkshire A shares and let Warren Buffet worry about investing it.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

sags said:


> If it were me, I would buy Berkshire A shares and let Warren Buffet worry about investing it.


judging by the OPs posts he probably is either a troll or going to burn through the cash faster then the little doctor destroyed the buggers in Ender's game.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Esco what is your highest value return of capital or return on capital? Playing return of capital will probably give the best returns i.e., speculators in the market on average lose money the commercial hedgers make money.


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## Esco (Aug 8, 2016)

redsgomarching said:


> judging by the OPs posts he probably is either a troll or going to burn through the cash faster then the little doctor destroyed the buggers in Ender's game


Wrong, I tend to live beneath my means



sags said:


> Contradiction in terms..........A "5-10% dividend return" and "diverse and safe"


At 10% I'd say you're right, but around 5% should be doable, no??



sags said:


> Put it in GICs and get a steady guaranteed return..............and probably a cake on your birthday.


Whats the highest paying GIC out there??



lonewolf :) said:


> Esco what is your highest value return of capital or return on capital? Playing return of capital will probably give the best returns i.e., speculators in the market on average lose money the commercial hedgers make money


I dont understand what you mean by this


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## jerryhung (Mar 28, 2011)

I'd Google for other threads where people asked about $2M+ money

12M - ask for wealth advisor and stop working/hanging out on this forum


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Wherever you got the 5%-10% safe and diverse, go back to them - sounds like something Bernie Madoff would have said.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Esco said:


> Wrong, I tend to live beneath my means
> 
> 
> At 10% I'd say you're right, but around 5% should be doable, no??
> ...


1. well it does seem pretty easy to do that when everything is bought for you.
2. like sag said, you are contradicting yourself if you want safe and 5% dividends still - you should do research.
3. i guess there are somethings that 12 million dollars can't fix - do your own research, start contacting the right people. 

thats another 120k fee for my advice, please EMT to the email i PMD you.


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## Esco (Aug 8, 2016)

Wow, lots of negativity on this board :confusion:


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Take 2-3MM buy covered calls, put the rest in HISA. Should give you just about $400k per yr to live on. Can you live on that?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

The skeptism on this board comes from the fact of so many people coming here getting large windfalls, and not having a clue. If one is in such a situation, the situation itself is rather unique, and one should not be coming to an anonymous board to get generic information for their very specific situation.

A generic question is fine to point one out in the right direction, but to be looking for advice on how to invest large amounts of money with certain expectated gains, and not want to either put any work in or pay someone is penny wise, pound foolish. 

In this $12mil example, why 10% or even 5? At five percent, that's $600 k a year. Is there a reason to want to generate that much. Of course more is better, but the ultra wealthy I say at least 9 figures) do not think on the same terms as the most. Even at a two percent return in a GIC you could get $240K. 

In real life I actually know many people in ultra weather class (many sold their businesses) and most don't come to a forum to get key advice. They may ask a couple of questions, but not how to invest. 

There are probably no more than a handful of people here that have dealt with or had to think about managing 9 d
Figure portfolios here's, and fewer that do it without any professional advice. Unless you plan to spend it all before you die, there are always estate questions, and many ways you can set up trust, corpoarates, and many ways you can plan for future generations. NO ONE On here can consult you all the way through.

I also find it ironic, if the people aren't trolling, that they have all this money, that they are too cheap to pay for some good advice, and I assume (right or wrong) it's due to greed (cheapness) or foolishness.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

^+1 :encouragement: Exactly. That someone should find otherwise speaks either of great naivety or trolling.


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## P_I (Dec 2, 2011)

You might want to read Managing a windfall - Bogleheads for some ideas.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I know this is a troll because wealthy people who give inheritances that are large are worried about the benefactor blowing it up in a few years, therefore, they assign it to a trust and a manager and have them invest and dole out the proceeds annually for a period of time until the benefactor reaches a certain age. They dont just drop $12MM on the lap of one of their relatives. Rich people plan like there is no tomorrow. Their biggest worry is losing their fortune.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

tygrus said:


> I know this is a troll because wealthy people who give inheritances that are large are worried about the benefactor blowing it up in a few years, therefore, they assign it to a trust and a manager and have them invest and dole out the proceeds annually for a period of time until the benefactor reaches a certain age. They dont just drop $12MM on the lap of one of their relatives. Rich people plan like there is no tomorrow. Their biggest worry is losing their fortune.


tbh wouldn't be surprised if OP will receive an amount - maybe not 12 mill - but a large enough amount. in his prior posts he boasts about having a fully paid of condo and his attitude towards other poster's suggestions (which he asked for) imply it was bought for him by parents etc. who knows! he could be one lucky ugly duck!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> The skeptism on this board comes from the fact of so many people coming here getting large windfalls, and not having a clue. If one is in such a situation, the situation itself is rather unique, and one should not be coming to an anonymous board to get generic information for their very specific situation.
> 
> A generic question is fine to point one out in the right direction, but to be looking for advice on how to invest large amounts of money with certain expectated gains, and not want to either put any work in or pay someone is penny wise, pound foolish.
> 
> ...




Plug you're absolutely right as onlyMO says.

but you know what? there can be exceptions.

one exception was the $15 million brand new poster who asked what he should do. Folks on here were skeptical until he let on that he'd previously posted here under another username.

i realized that he was for real. He'd had a real estate partnership which he'd wanted to dissolve because he was the rainmaker doing all the work. He wanted to remain friends with his former partners.

flash forward ... new username ... he'd managed to successfully dissolve the partnership & he'd wound up with the $15M. 

one reason why he liked scooting around on here, for a little while, is that he'd also been interviewing the usual ultra-high-net-worth professionals. He complained that they were slavering - drooling & slobbering far too aggressively - after his money. So he found our anonymity & our coolth very refreshing.

he disappeared because at $15M he didn't really have much in common with us poor working peasants. Still, he wrote to me with his real name & yea, he was for real.

as for this OP with the inheritance, i think you & tyg may be right. Coming to an anonymous finance chat forum & asking how to invest $200k doesn't really attract much attention. Do couch potato, a few may yawn in reply.

but coming to an anonymous finance chat forum with 12 million dollars, now that ought to wake em up!


ps Plugging how you coming along with the job decision?

.


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## Esco (Aug 8, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> The skeptism on this board comes from the fact of so many people coming here getting large windfalls, and not having a clue. If one is in such a situation, the situation itself is rather unique, and one should not be coming to an anonymous board to get generic information for their very specific situation.
> 
> A generic question is fine to point one out in the right direction, but to be looking for advice on how to invest large amounts of money with certain expectated gains, and not want to either put any work in or pay someone is penny wise, pound foolish.
> 
> ...


First of all, I believe in gathering as much info and advice as I can. That includes asking questions on internet forums, but will also include getting a financial adviser in the future. If you think I'm going to act on just information in this thread alone you are sorely mistaken. I also plan on buying a few good books on investing, and I will probably also attend a few investment conventions.

Oh and I'm not a troll and the negativity on this forum is astounding


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Esco said:


> First of all, I believe in gathering as much info and advice as I can. That includes asking questions on internet forums, but will also include getting a financial adviser in the future. If you think I'm going to act on just information in this thread alone you are sorely mistaken. I also plan on buying a few good books on investing, and I will probably also attend a few investment conventions.
> 
> Oh and I'm not a troll and the negativity on this forum is astounding


can you prove you arent a troll? only way to do that is pics when you are on the internet unfortunately, or meet up with somebody here since we are all canadian generally shouldnt be too hard. 

but imo your attitude kinda stinks so my guess is you would have a hard time with this.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't think we should assume anyone is a troll. Inheritances and other gifts within family do happen.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

redsgomarching said:


> ^ considering people get paid 1% of assets for advice please send an etransfer to my email address in the amount of 120k.


Good one! These investment advisers/advisors make easy money and don't have to take responsibility if the ROI is not what they quoted. 


> secondly, you could literally put it into gics and live off the interest forever. assuming 12 mill - pay off house and any other debts, top up registered plans for tax free gains/deferrals, if you have kids get some funds in their RESPs.
> 
> at an average GIC ladder of 3% you are looking at 360k per year in interest income if done will the full amount.


This is what I would be doing. While the return is low, it is guaranteed and you can sleep at night knowing your money is safer and no ridicuous management fees or up front load funds.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

carverman said:


> Good one! These investment advisers/advisors make easy money and don't have to take responsibility if the ROI is not what they quoted.
> 
> 
> This is what I would be doing. While the return is low, it is guaranteed and you can sleep at night knowing your money is
> safer and no ridicuous management fees or up front load funds.


that and 360k per year is closing in on executive level salary (not including bonus or stock options) - would be hard to spend that much per year or need more than that.
even in my family my father made that per year with 4 kids and helping out other family + having to buy out his partner he still managed to max rrsps, resps, and take us on atleast 3-4 trips per year. 
honestly i always envy my parents with what they have been able to accomplish with 4 kids and just makes me glad i don't plan on having 4. university tuition for 4 combined is average 60k per, 240k after taxed dollars saved for university less what we made while working and scholarships but all of us ended up doing masters. my sisters first year tuition abroad was our 4 years combined! 

blah!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Esco said:


> First of all, I believe in gathering as much info and advice as I can. That includes asking questions on internet forums, but will also include getting a financial adviser in the future. _*If you think I'm going to act on just information in this thread alone you are sorely mistaken. I also plan on buying a few good books on investing, and I will probably also attend a few investment conventions.*_
> 
> Oh and I'm not a troll and the negativity on this forum is astounding



esko u may not be a troll but you surely are one delicious fellow.

please look at your first post. You're way too naiive to be inheriting $12 million. If by some remote chance it's true, your benefactor has made a serious mistake .each:

in proof of which, here you are again with more evidence that your situation is a little zany.

a) you're unashamedly asking an anonymous forum for free advice & guidance, then you plan to turn up your disrespectful nose & depart with the stolen goods;

b) next, you plan on buying a few books on investing. Green star. You didn't mention whether you'll read em, but at least you'll buy em;

c) next, you will probably bestir yourself to attend a few investment conventions;

d) following which, having transformed yourself into buffett junior in the course of a few short weeks, you will promptly undertake the management of 12 million dollars ...

.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I don't think we should assume anyone is a troll. Inheritances and other gifts within family do happen.



not like this .each:

.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

From now on, all HNW people and trolls alike can just get their financial advice from John Goodman;

https://youtu.be/rJjKP8vYjpQ

Unfortunately, I am more Mark Walberg :smug:


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> but the ultra wealthy I say at least 9 figures) do not think on the same terms as the most.
> 
> In real life I actually know many people in ultra weather class (many sold their businesses) and most don't come to a forum to get key advice. They may ask a couple of questions, but not how to invest.


Well I must say that Plugging moves in a rarefied atmosphere compared to lowly _moi_. Not only do I not personally know "many" in the utra wealthy class (defined by Plugging as $100 million or better, if I calculate 9 figures correctly - $100,000,000), I don't even know a single person in that league.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Mukhang pera said:


> Well I must say that Plugging moves in a rarefied atmosphere compared to lowly _moi_. Not only do I not personally know "many" in the utra wealthy class (defined by Plugging as $100 million or better, if I calculate 9 figures correctly - $100,000,000), I don't even know a single person in that league.


i know a total of 2 families who are at that amount and they live on our street but most of our neighbors and us are in the 10-20 range. our one neighbor just sold sold their family business for 15 million which is still very impressive!

100 million in investible assets is enormous lol, at a 3% GIC ladder its 3 million per year, that is truly insane. i was talking to my family friends about this - how to get into that inner circle in big companies who pay their executives insane amounts after all of these executive pay stories in the news.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

redsgomarching said:


> i know a total of 2 families who are at that amount and they live on our street but most of our neighbors and us are in the 10-20 range. our one neighbor just sold sold their family business for 15 million which is still very impressive!


If you and most of those around you are in the $10+ million range, I'd say you're living on the right side of the tracks. Not all that many ever get there.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Mukhang pera said:


> Well I must say that Plugging moves in a rarefied atmosphere compared to lowly _moi_. Not only do I not personally know "many" in the utra wealthy class (defined by Plugging as $100 million or better, if I calculate 9 figures correctly - $100,000,000), I don't even know a single person in that league.




sea-going wolf u are pretty good with women so i hope you won't mind if i mention how it goes with the one false digit

Plugging is great with the big things. She's a great project manager, a cool business head, a loving mother, a wonderful wife & family matriarch.

she just made a tiny one-digit error on her iPad, is all.

see? in the linear logic male world, one digit would crash NASA
but in the intuitive female world, her message resonates perfectly

.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Gentle hp,

You might be right about that. On the other hand, Plugging might just keep company with the aristocrats and just drops in here once in awhile to see what the plebeians are up to. 

Respectueusement à vous, loup de mer


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I am going to give you the same advice the world's most successful investor, Warren Buffet, would give you. Index it. In fact I copied the idea from Buffet.

When he says index it he means buy a mutual fund like the one from Vanguard, that duplicates the S&P 500 Index. In case you wonder if he really believes this, he recently won a $1,000,000 bet with a hedge fund manager, in which he bet the S&P would beat his hand picked hedge funds over 10 years. It wasn't even close. For more details google Warren Buffet million dollar bet.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bu...ictory-lap-over-million-dollar-bet-2017-02-25

This will pay you about 2% a year in interest plus whatever it goes up.

If you want to do even better, and are willing to work 5 minutes a month here is what you do. Look at a weekly chart of the S&P with a 10 week and 50 week moving average on it. When the 10 week crosses over the 50 week, buy. When the 10 week crosses under the 50 week, sell. If you had done this you would have missed out on the 2000 and 2008 crashes and increased your returns by almost half.


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

Mukhang pera said:


> If you and most of those around you are in the $10+ million range, I'd say you're living on the right side of the tracks. Not all that many ever get there.


haha i am nowhere near that unfortunately, only about 30% to my first mill, been saving up my bonuses and what not and finally bought a condo in a good spot, but i love listening to their success stories how they did it, what they are still doing, and it helps that i make myself available to all of them for any work needed outside etc. need to start utilizing them more to get better jobs.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> Plug you're absolutely right as onlyMO says.
> 
> but you know what? there can be exceptions.
> 
> ...


Yes, I do remember reading the other poster, and that made a lot more sense, busy person working their business, and then sells its. Now, what to do with the sales. That poster posted with more common sense if that makes sense. I can't remember why though. 

Thanks for asking about the job. I am getting through my next major deadline, and will take some time to reflect afterwards to see if I see things getting better or not. I will post once I get my head straight. 




humble_pie said:


> sea-going wolf u are pretty good with women so i hope you won't mind if i mention how it goes with the one false digit
> 
> Plugging is great with the big things. She's a great project manager, a cool business head, a loving mother, a wonderful wife & family matriarch.
> 
> ...


Thanks HP, you do truly get me. My fast/fingers when one digit to the right. 



Mukhang pera said:


> Gentle hp,
> 
> You might be right about that. On the other hand, Plugging might just keep company with the aristocrats and just drops in here once in awhile to see what the plebeians are up to.
> 
> Respectueusement à vous, loup de mer


HP is bang on - Fat fingers on a iPad, while doing things with the family, caused the typo. Also, thanks for the kind words. I meant 8 figures. However, I was visiting the one family I do know in the 9 figure area (started and sold 3 large companies), and they have been preparing for when they do transfer some of their wealth to this kids (which will probably be in the 8 digits) and I gaurentee, their kids Will not be coming on a forum. 

My point is that people that have 8 digit inheritances have enough that they should be getting proper advice, not from an anonymous forum. They have tried to plan some of the future by providing a financial understanding, and a set of advisors to help. 

I definitely am not in the league of the 9 or 8 figure group, but just know a lot of them (8 figures).


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## RussT (Jul 11, 2016)

If you read the OP's posts carefully, he doesn't actually say he inherited $12,000,000. I think he is posting about a hypothetical situation. I don't think he is a troll in the broad sense of the term but I think he is having a bit of fun now that people think he actually claimed to have inherited a fortune.

Regardless, it is a fun thread.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> I was visiting the one family I do know in the 9 figure area (started and sold 3 large companies), and they have been preparing for when they do transfer some of their wealth to this kids (which will probably be in the 8 digits) and I gaurentee, their kids Will not be coming on a forum.
> 
> My point is that people that have 8 digit inheritances have enough that they should be getting proper advice, not from an anonymous forum.




aww _(sorry) (can't resist teasing the Plug)_

your friends won't be coming here?

we're too deplorable?

advice on here is not proper?


each:

.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> My point is that people that have 8 digit inheritances have enough that they should be getting proper advice, not from an anonymous forum. They have tried to plan some of the future by providing a financial understanding, and a set of advisors to help.
> 
> I definitely am not in the league of the 9 or 8 figure group, but just know a lot of them (8 figures).


I don't participate in these type of threads. I live in West Vancouver BC which has many such multi-millionaires. I count a few of them in my social world and none of them participate in internet discussion groups. They all use portfolio managers.

I started on these forums after retirement. I was already investing on my own since the early days of Greenline. I find that it is harder to invest $300k than $3 mill because the latter lets me take asset allocation to a finer level. Would my advice be of use for investing $12 or $15 million? I doubt it. Since I have never been there, I would not know where to start.

Two of my buddies got their immense cash through sale of their businesses and another through inheritance. They do not enjoy discussing investments in depth because they have so little competence and prefer to focus on particular investments that their advisers made on their behalf that have been winners recently.

People love to talk about Buffett but there is absolutely no comparison between him, BRK and the average investor. As a long time investor in Apple stock, I was asked how I felt about his investment. I replied that it might be a sign that the good days are over!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kcowan said:


> I started on these forums after retirement. I was already investing on my own since the early days of Greenline. I find that it is harder to invest $300k than $3 mill because the latter lets me take asset allocation to a finer level. Would my advice be of use for investing $12 or $15 million? I doubt it. Since I have never been there, I would not know where to start.
> 
> Two of my buddies got their immense cash through sale of their businesses and another through inheritance. They do not enjoy discussing investments in depth because they have so little competence and prefer to focus on particular investments that their advisers made on their behalf that have been winners recently.
> 
> People love to talk about Buffett but there is absolutely no comparison between him, BRK and the average investor. As a long time investor in Apple stock, I was asked how I felt about his investment. I replied that it might be a sign that the good days are over!




i believe this forum is enormously enriched by the presence of veterans such as yourself. When you started with greenline, discount brokerage in canada would surely have been in its infancy, so you are a pioneer!

altaRed is another intrepid discountland explorer who apparently never hesitated to take control of his own savings & investment portfolio. 

might i say that contributions on here from both of you are greatly appreciated.

.


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## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

Two of the wisest experienced contributors here and on other forums.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I bought stock once in 1967. Lost all my money. 

I bought stock again in 2005. Sold and made a tiny bit of money. (penny biopharma)

Next time I get a pile of money.........I am buying a convertible :tears_of_joy:


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> aww _(sorry) (can't resist teasing the Plug)_
> 
> your friends won't be coming here?
> 
> ...


Don't think they will be coming this forum. They don't have the time and really the advice isn't applicable. I don't think it's because we are deplorable, however, I have to say I did fell a little bit like peasants when visiting. Their guest house was larger than my first two places, and it was challenging to find my kids in the house who got lost on one of the rooms. They let us in to their world as we helped pick out the colours and look for the Ferrari they are ordering, and said we can drive it when it arrives. Then on the other side (they both grew up without money), they are still having conversations with their kids if they wanted something, they would have to pay it themselves. They made their kids pay for their own movies when they paid for us?


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

sags said:


> Lost all my money.


sags, little tip, buy etfs.


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## crgf1k (Aug 8, 2015)

sags said:


> Put it in GICs and get a steady guaranteed return..............and probably a cake on your birthday.


+1^^^^ Spend the $250,000+ gross income per year, and sleep in every day. If you have kids, make sure you teach them how to do it.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

sags said:


> I bought stock once in 1967. Lost all my money.
> 
> I bought stock again in 2005. Sold and made a tiny bit of money. (penny biopharma)
> 
> Next time I get a pile of money.........I am buying a convertible :tears_of_joy:


Convertible bonds can be a wise investment but not with interest rates at an all time low and the stock market at an all time high.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Convertible bonds can be a wise investment but not with interest rates at an all time low and the stock market at an all time high.


Now I am a curious. I thought he meant a convertable sports car. &#55357;&#56832;


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Embrace the logic....

Having $12 million worth of classic cars in a garage/warehouse would be a lot more fun that having a $12 million entry on a spreadsheet.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Had some pain in my shoulders and neck and thought it might be angina.

Went to the hospital and they checked it out. All tests came back fine.........whew.

I thought I was a goner. A lot of people in the emergency room didn't look so good.

Life is short..............enjoy the "rides" while you can.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Had some pain in my shoulders and neck and thought it might be angina.
> 
> Went to the hospital and they checked it out. All tests came back fine.........whew.
> 
> ...


Good to hear that you are still with us. Otherwise, I would really miss our opinionated exchanges.
I had my close call in Feb 2016...had to get rushed into the Ottawa Heart institute. 
Now i have a pacemaker..so far, so good.

Did you take "two aspirins..they may save your life" as the Bayer TV ad suggests? I don't believe that for a minute.
if you are having a heart attack, by the time the aspiring gets into your system..it may be too late.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Esco said:


> Wow, lots of negativity on this board :confusion:


+1 ... maybe it's jealousy? 
Or maybe it's that some can't believe that anyone would be willing to make it known they had received a windfall. 




Plugging Along said:


> The skeptism on this board comes from the fact of so many people coming here getting large windfalls, and not having a clue.


I'm not sure what having a clue has to do with getting a large windfall .... or why it would matter. I can see where the skepticism may lead on to believe one is wasting their time by providing info. 




Plugging Along said:


> ... If one is in such a situation, the situation itself is rather unique, and one should not be coming to an anonymous board to get generic information for their very specific situation.


With reports of "experts" churning through $2 million plus to their profit and their client's loss - I am not sure why the info other sources could provide should be avoided. It won't be tailored and likely shouldn't be applied blindly but then again, some basic info or questions to ask has made a significant difference for me.




Plugging Along said:


> ... A generic question is fine to point one out in the right direction, but to be looking for advice on how to invest large amounts of money with certain expectated gains, and not want to either put any work in or pay someone is penny wise, pound foolish.


True ... though I'm not sure we know for sure whether the OP is asking to check what current/future advisors suggest or whether they are planning on DIY.




Plugging Along said:


> ... In real life I actually know many people in ultra weather class (many sold their businesses) and most don't come to a forum to get key advice. They may ask a couple of questions, but not how to invest.


And there are write ups of those who could have limited what their expert made off with if they had. 




Plugging Along said:


> ... I also find it ironic, if the people aren't trolling, that they have all this money, that they are too cheap to pay for some good advice, and I assume (right or wrong) it's due to greed (cheapness) or foolishness.


YMMV ... that's the challenge with assumptions.


Cheers


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> Now I am a curious. I thought he meant a convertable sports car. ��


like the convertible Stock sports car that Bond drives?irate:

In my next life, I want to save my pennies, buy Toronto or Vancouver housing, and buy and drive a Lamborghini Diablo sports car. :smug:


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

sags said:


> Had some pain in my shoulders and neck and thought it might be angina.
> 
> Went to the hospital and they checked it out. All tests came back fine.........whew.


An angiogram is the only way to be sure. Was the pain in your left arm?

A friend woke up after a particularly strenuous day with his GCs. He had clearly suffered a stroke. Immediately went to the hospital and passed all tests with flying colours. No treatment recommended.

I have also had symptoms. Battery of tests indicate hardening of the arteries. Treatment is a low dose 81g aspirin every day.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Esco said:


> ... Oh and I'm not a troll and the negativity on this forum is astounding


It's reaching new depths IMO.




redsgomarching said:


> can you prove you arent a troll?


Can you prove you aren't being paid to drive up the post count/activity?

If you truly believe the OP is a troll then move on to more profitable stuff. I'm not sure what the value is to challenge someone to something they likely won't want to do.


Cheers


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> Had some pain in my shoulders and neck and thought it might be angina.
> 
> Went to the hospital and they checked it out. All tests came back fine.........whew.
> 
> ...


I am glad you are okay. Make sure to take care.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> tygrus said:
> 
> 
> > I know this is a troll because wealthy people who give inheritances that are large are worried about the benefactor blowing it up in a few years, therefore, they assign it to a trust and a manager and have them invest and dole out the proceeds annually for a period of time until the benefactor reaches a certain age ...
> ...


LOL ... good to know that live is so cut and dried that benefactors never make a mistake, never are lazy and always make sure they pass on money while the beneficiary is under the age of taking control of the inheritance. :rolleyes2:

What's next? No one skips using registered accounts? No one misses making a will? :eek2:




humble_pie said:


> ... a) you're unashamedly asking an anonymous forum for free advice & guidance, then you plan to turn up your disrespectful nose & depart with the stolen goods; ...


Refresh my memory ... other than the total $$$, how is that different than "I'm seeing an advisor next week, I don't want to be ripped off, what is suggested" threads?
Or here's a list of the MF's to choose from for my company pension/Group RRSP?





humble_pie said:


> ... b) next, you plan on buying a few books on investing. Green star. You didn't mention whether you'll read em, but at least you'll buy em;
> c) next, you will probably bestir yourself to attend a few investment conventions;
> d) following which, having transformed yourself into buffett junior in the course of a few short weeks, you will promptly undertake the management of 12 million dollars ...


Since people were willing to comment on similar threads that didn't include the amount ... it looks to me that people are jealous that is resulting more being speculated about the OP, their benefactor etc. than either moving on or suggestions.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

redsgomarching said:


> ... but i love listening to their success stories how they did it, what they are still doing, and it helps that *i make myself available to all of them for any work needed outside etc.* *need to start utilizing them more to get better jobs.*


It is a good start ... that's one of the things executives go into over drive for (resulting in lots of opportunities) ... network, network, networks. 

Works great for sales types as well.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I am going to give you the same advice the world's most successful investor, Warren Buffet, would give you. Index it. In fact I copied the idea from Buffet.
> 
> When he says index it he means buy a mutual fund like the one from Vanguard, that duplicates the S&P 500 Index.


The speech I saw at US university, he was asked this question in the Q&A after. He said where one has the time/inclination - pick stocks. The majority don't so they should index.

The OP seems to be starting out, so I'd suggest a good chunk in GICs/HISA with another chunk split between a few indexes. Top it off with a lot of learning. I am biased though as I have read too many with $$$ lamenting handing their $$ over to an expert then not keeping tabs/learning about whatever the expert put them in.

Or maybe throw in a balanced fund until the the OP had learned more.

Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> ... My point is that people that have 8 digit inheritances have enough that they should be getting proper advice, not from an anonymous forum. They have tried to plan some of the future by providing a financial understanding, and a set of advisors to help ...


In a perfect world ... absolutely and it's great those you are in contact with have their ducks in a row.

The world is more varied and at times, messier - from what I have observed.




humble_pie said:


> i believe this forum is enormously enriched by the presence of veterans such as yourself. When you started with greenline, discount brokerage in canada would surely have been in its infancy, so you are a pioneer! ...


There are some of that started with discounters early on. Though this reminds me that I should close out my DIY account that pre-dates discount brokerages becoming widely available/popular.


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> Next time I get a pile of money.........I am buying a convertible :tears_of_joy:





i'll be down to get you in a thunderbird honey
convertible top & a floor stick shift
now honey don't be late
i wanna be there
when
the band starts playin

.












.


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

sags said:


> Had some pain in my shoulders and neck and thought it might be angina.
> 
> Went to the hospital and they checked it out. All tests came back fine.........whew.
> 
> ...


You're not allowed to leave without a Union driver.
- your dues paid up and all that?
- swing low sweet chariot, etcetera.


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## CalgaryPotato (Mar 7, 2015)

sags said:


> Had some pain in my shoulders and neck and thought it might be angina.
> 
> Went to the hospital and they checked it out. All tests came back fine.........whew.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear that you are OK!


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

carverman said:


> like the convertible Stock sports car that Bond drives?irate:
> 
> In my next life, I want to save my pennies, buy Toronto or Vancouver housing, and buy and drive a Lamborghini Diablo sports car. :smug:





sags said:


> Embrace the logic....
> 
> Having $12 million worth of classic cars in a garage/warehouse would be a lot more fun that having a $12 million entry on a spreadsheet.


Does it have to be classic cars and convertibles? I learned that a used Ferrari often sells for more than brand new because Ferrari will not sell you a new one unless you have had one already. That would be fun.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Thanks everyone..........all good for now.

The hospital scheduled me for a cardio stress test. I know the routine as I have been through it before.

I have 2 heart stents, and take different meds and the doctor at the hospital called me "low risk" for a heart attack............LOL seriously.

All my vital signs and blood work were good and I recently had an echo cardiogram that was normal..............so maybe that is why.

My family is looked after financially if something happens to me. My wife isn't financially savvy at all, so I have to keep everything simple.

So I know I view things differently than a lot of younger people. Having an ailment gives a different point of view on "saving" and "spending".

I don't want to appear flippant though. I fully understand the difficulty people are having trying to put away enough to retire.

We were lucky.........very lucky, to both have DB pensions with last survivor benefits and we know it.

So all things considered with a big windfall..........I would be buying a car like Humble posted (thanks Humble......that is a work of art).

I would leave the car to my son and grandson, with a name plate on the dash listing all of us.

When my dad passed away he left us a little bit of money each. I wish he had left me with a watch or something instead.

Think about leaving something "special" your kids can hold onto to. It is as important as money.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> Does it have to be classic cars and convertibles? I learned that a used Ferrari often sells for more than brand new because Ferrari will not sell you a new one unless you have had one already. That would be fun.


Exotic cars would work out just fine as well :smug:

I probably wouldn't drive any of them much anyways. I would just enjoy polishing and admiring them.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Here is how I would allocate $12MM

$1 MM home
$1 MM vacation property
$2.5 MM in ETFs
$7 MM in HISA/GIC
$500K fractional jet ownership

Man being able to fly private is just the ultimate.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

How about these winners of $50 million or $100 million dollar lotteries ?

And the reporter always asks............are you going to keep your job at Walmart..............LOL.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Just wanted to say I'd be more than happy to come here for serious advice if I won $12M. I think the forum sells itself short.

Banks and advisors will go to great efforts just to get $10k from my girlfriend (I've guided her back properly into the TFSA Tangerine Balanced fund - She even logs in and makes deposits herself without my prompting!)

I can't even imagine what kind of shenanigans a high net worth wealth advisor would get up to when they see a $12M mark walking through the door...


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## redsgomarching (Mar 6, 2016)

peterk said:


> Just wanted to say I'd be more than happy to come here for serious advice if I won $12M. I think the forum sells itself short.
> 
> Banks and advisors will go to great efforts just to get $10k from my girlfriend (I've guided her back properly into the TFSA Tangerine Balanced fund - She even logs in and makes deposits herself without my prompting!)
> 
> I can't even imagine what kind of shenanigans a high net worth wealth advisor would get up to when they see a $12M mark walking through the door...


I would agree to some point, we are unbiased, and have no self interest.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

peterk said:


> Just wanted to say I'd be more than happy to come here for serious advice if I won $12M. I think the forum sells itself short.
> 
> Banks and advisors will go to great efforts just to get $10k from my girlfriend (I've guided her back properly into the TFSA Tangerine Balanced fund - She even logs in and makes deposits herself without my prompting!)


I agree. And at the very least, you'll get (impartial) pointers to where to start.

That's better than any kind of salesman. Their only answer will be: bring me the money.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Exotic cars would work out just fine as well :smug:
> 
> I probably wouldn't drive any of them much anyways. I would just enjoy polishing and admiring them.


Ever watch that RESTORATION GARAGE tv show on Global on Saturdays at noon?
They can take a rusted out hulk and provided you have enough money turn it back into ALMOST mint shape. 
Some of their restored cars go on the US car auction block for hundreds of thousands.

I think if someone had a large inheritance (not saying 12 million :tickled_pink then perhaps buying one of these vintage cars that are no longer made, as an investment may not be such a bad idea. 
You can polish it, sit and admire it and will it to your children or grandchildren as gifts.
They can either drive them or sell them for a lot more in later years.

In my case, I wanted a big Harley back in the late 90s, when I was still able to ride motorcycles. 
I was fascinated by their idling "potato-potato" exhaust sound, so I was tempted to (almost) put a deposit
down on one, but then got a letter from my divorce lawyer....the long and short of it... I was looking for that bumper
sticker that says.."My lawyer is driving my other car", (which in my case would have been a Harley.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

peterk said:


> Just wanted to say I'd be more than happy to come here for serious advice if I won $12M. I think the forum sells itself short ...


I'm not sure it's the bulk of the forum so much as a few.




peterk said:


> ... Banks and advisors will go to great efforts just to get $10k from my girlfriend (I've guided her back properly into the TFSA Tangerine Balanced fund - She even logs in and makes deposits herself without my prompting!)
> 
> I can't even imagine what kind of shenanigans a high net worth wealth advisor would get up to when they see a $12M mark walking through the door ...


Not much needs to be imagined when one looks at the complaints/lawsuits for ignoring the instructions while churning through the investor's hard earned cash. :eek2:

From the results of a few ... the complaints from those who have posted here have indicated that there was at least something left to move forward with.


Cheers


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

Some great posts in here.

My opinion is to diversify. It's far safer.

Buying both hookers and cocaine is more safe than just buying coke.

It's all laid out in a book titled, "winning with tiger blood" by Charlie sheen.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Latest on active vs passive funds:Index funds beat stock pickers 92% of the time.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/201...kers-a-decade-and-a-half-of-underperformance/


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

What's the net worth level where it makes sense to structure things as an offshore corporation?

$12M I would be thinking should reside in an offshore corp and my wife and kids and I would be directors. We'd get some nominal Canadian income and pay normal tax on it. But maybe we'd rent a nice condo in TO, one in London and one in Turks & Cacaos from the company at quite reasonable rates. We might go on a few business trips to do company business and have some of our business expenses covered by the company. I think I'd drive a company car, for example.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Latest on active vs passive funds:Index funds beat stock pickers 92% of the time.
> 
> https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/201...kers-a-decade-and-a-half-of-underperformance/




no, not quite. The article says that managed mutual funds trailed indexes. Although the rest of the article is behind the paywall, it does not appear to say that individual stock pickers trailed indexes.

years ago, california finance prof terrance o'dean pioneered the urban myth that individual stock pickers fail when compared to indexes. However, o'dean's first study was of mutual fund retail investors who were timing their participation in markets by holding & selling mutual funds. It was the performances of these mutual fund market timers that were compared to index returns. That's a far cry from individual investors who hold curated portfolios of individual securities.

even though o'dean's hallmark study did not include individual stock pickers, nevertheless the o'dean name & the o'dean studies are frequently cited as proof that stock pickers are doomed to failure.

.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> Exotic cars would work out just fine as well :smug:
> 
> I probably wouldn't drive any of them much anyways. I would just enjoy polishing and admiring them.


You could probably get paid to polish someone's expensive vehicle. I also have to share... there's this yellow Ferrari that I see in my area of the city all the time. I am ways stuck going behind them at like 40km when it's 60km and the person always stalls at lights. I have been delayed many times that I avoid the yellow Ferrari. The funniest part though is it's a little old lady who I swear is AT LEAST 80 and she is hunched over driving it around like a jalopy. Maybe it would be better if she just polishes it. It makes me laugh when I see her , it's quite the sight.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It doesn't sound like the little old lady from Pasadena....

"The Little Old Lady From Pasadena"

It's the little old lady from Pasadena
The little old lady from Pasadena
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)
Has a pretty little flower bed of white Gardenias
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)
But parked in a rickety old garage
Is a brand new shiny red super stocked Dodge
And everybody's sayin' that there's nobody meaner
Than the little old lady from Pasadena
She drives real fast and she drives real hard
She's the terror of Colorado Boulevard
It's the little old lady from Pasadena
If you see her on the street don't try to choose her
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)
You might drive a go-er but you'll never lose her
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)
She's gonna get a ticket now sooner or later
Cause she can't keep her foot off the accelerator
And everybody's saying that there's nobody meaner
Than the little old lady from Pasadena
She Drives real fast and she drives real hard
She's the terror of Colorado Boulevard
It's the little old lady from Pasadena
You'll see her all the time just gettin her kicks now
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)
with her four speed stick and a four-two-six now
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)
The guys come to race her from all around
But she'll give em a length then she'll shut em down
And everybody's saying that there's nobody meaner
Than the little old lady from Pasadena
She Drives real fast and she drives real hard
She's the terror of Colorado Boulevard
It's the little old lady from Pasadena
(Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny, Go)


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Reminds me....back in the 50s, 60s, 70s...........there were all kinds of songs about cars in rock, pop, country genres.

Never hear much music about cars anymore. Maybe a Prius or Corolla just don't cut the mustard.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> Reminds me....back in the 50s, 60s, 70s...........there were all kinds of songs about cars in rock, pop, country genres.
> 
> Never hear much music about cars anymore. Maybe a Prius or Corolla just don't cut the mustard.


My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna' drive me to drinkin' / If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Prius." Nope, doesn't quite cut it.

Or how 'bout:

As I was motivatin' over the hill
I saw Maybellene in a coup de ville.
A Prius a-rollin' on the open road,
nothin' will outrun my V4 Corolla.
The Prius doin' bout ninety-five,
she's bumper to bumper rollin' side by side.

Pink in the mirror on top of the hill,
its just like swallowin' up a medicine pill.
First thing I saw that Prius grille
doin' a hundred and ten gallopin' over that hill.
Offhill curve, a downhill stretch,
me and that Prius neck by neck.

Maybellene, why cant you be true?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

LOL...........

Johnnie Cash even wrote a song about working on the GM assembly line building a Cadillac.......One Piece at a Time.

We talked about it at the warehouse, but after starting to add up the cost of the parts individually.............forget about it.

I remember "scrapping" fiberglass tops for old Corvettes...........didn't really want to do that but orders is orders.........


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## AshleyT (May 1, 2009)

I don't know why the advice has to be different than for someone with 1.2M or 120k vs 12 million. We have more than 12 million and invest the same way (low cost 3 ETF passive portfolio) that we did when we first started in 2005 with only 100k. 

We received excellent advice from FWF including the likes of Keith and Altared. We are thankful for these forums and the money we have saved on financial professionals/predators who were circling when we first graduated from residency. We would certainly have a lot less if it wasn't for the internet and financial forums.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AshleyT: that's wonderful to hear! And congrats on the good outcome.

I also don't understand why there's any difference in absolute size. I'd want an expert to look at tax consequences, but actual implementation should be easy in the end.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

AshleyT said:


> why the advice has to be different than for someone with 1.2M or 120k vs 12 million.


With 1.2M you are planning to retire and die broke or close to it. With 12M you are planning a more long term estate and worrying about how to make that sustainable or grow through more than a single generation.
With 1.2M you're not going to bother changing your tax residency. With 12M you might well want to do that.
With 1.2M you're unlikely to be retiring to the French Riviera or a villa in Tuscany. With 12M, you might.

It is not simply a matter of scale in my view, it is huge change in the scope of possibility.


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## AshleyT (May 1, 2009)

gardner said:


> With 1.2M you are planning to retire and die broke or close to it. With 12M you are planning a more long term estate and worrying about how to make that sustainable or grow through more than a single generation.
> With 1.2M you're not going to bother changing your tax residency. With 12M you might well want to do that.
> With 1.2M you're unlikely to be retiring to the French Riviera or a villa in Tuscany. With 12M, you might.
> 
> It is not simply a matter of scale in my view, it is huge change in the scope of possibility.


I think that some assume that there are all kinds of fancy tricks available to people with a lot of money. In reality, there are not really any legal fancy things you can do. Understanding legacy/inheritance issues and minimizing taxes on assets that are passed on to the next generation are not any more difficult than understanding how to invest money. The simplest solutions are generally the most effective and least expensive/time consuming. However, it is in the interest of financial professionals to make you believe that it is so complicated that it requires their assistance and associated fees. 

Change tax residency? This is the first I have ever heard of such a suggestion, but my understanding is that assets are deemed disposed after being out of Canada for greater than 6 months and appropriate taxes apply. Not a great idea from a tax perspective on a passive portfolio that is substantially made up of capital gains.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

I would argue that there is a difference. Wife and I have been debating how to best structure our assets to maximize wealth transfer to future generations. After consulting with tax professionals, we will be going down the path of a holdco/trust structure with assets being *butterflied *into the holdco every 1-2 years. There is a cost associated with this we believe this structure provides us with the greatest flexibility for our assets. If anyone has experience in this, I'd appreciate a PM!


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

gardner said:


> With 1.2M you are planning to retire and die broke or close to it. With 12M you are planning a more long term estate and worrying about how to make that sustainable or grow through more than a single generation.
> With 1.2M you're not going to bother changing your tax residency. With 12M you might well want to do that.
> With 1.2M you're unlikely to be retiring to the French Riviera or a villa in Tuscany. With 12M, you might.
> 
> It is not simply a matter of scale in my view, it is huge change in the scope of possibility.


I agree with Gardner.

That's 10 times the assets. There should be a difference in how you manage that money long-term including all the estate planning that goes with it. 

Let's flip it around. Say you spend $50K per year. (Just a random number.) Are you saying there is no difference in how you spend $500K per year?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

AshleyT said:


> ... Change tax residency? This is the first I have ever heard of such a suggestion ...


If you wander through the Taxation and Retirement sections, there are a few threads on this topic. 
Most want to have some connection to family so are more likely to spend time in warmer climates but remain a Canadian tax resident.




AshleyT said:


> ... but my understanding is that assets are deemed disposed after being out of Canada for greater than 6 months and appropriate taxes apply.


Just being outside Canada does not change one's tax residency. Changing the tax residency plus having CRA agree that one has changed it versus being "deemed" a resident will trigger the deemed disposition on the date one reports leaving.



> Generally, you are an emigrant for income tax purposes if:
> you leave Canada to live in another country; *and*
> you sever your residential ties with Canada.


http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/lvng-eng.html#mgrnt

Now the provincial healthcare system might stop covering one for being away greater than six months straight but just being away on it's own does not change the tax residency.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/rsdncy-eng.html
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/tmprry-eng.html


Cheers


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## AshleyT (May 1, 2009)

atrp2biz said:


> I would argue that there is a difference. Wife and I have been debating how to best structure our assets to maximize wealth transfer to future generations. After consulting with tax professionals, we will be going down the path of a holdco/trust structure with assets being *butterflied *into the holdco every 1-2 years. There is a cost associated with this we believe this structure provides us with the greatest flexibility for our assets. If anyone has experience in this, I'd appreciate a PM!


I can't help you with your specific question, but I would urge you to run your own analysis of these complicated schemes. There is not doubt you can gain some tax savings from a trust, but a lot of what gets proposed to HNW individuals is purposely complex and provides more fees to financial professionals and lawyers than would otherwise have been the case. They are financially biased to propose stuff like this to you, and your interests may not be central to the intent. 

Even the basic CCPC for professionals gets pitched to just about everyone, but there are many who should not set up a CCPC, at least not at the time that they are told to set it up. But why would an accountant lawyer turn away a paying customer with guaranteed yearly revenue with advice like that?

Buyer beware.


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## atrp2biz (Sep 22, 2010)

It's not terribly complicated. Two primary benefits:

1) Time value of money--specifically deferral of taxes (personal rate vs. general corporate rate)
2) Directing income through the trust

The magic number of income required to setup a CCPC has been discussed here a few times. I don't remember what the number is, but incorporation makes sense in our case.


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## AshleyT (May 1, 2009)

I wasn't referring to the CCPC as a complicated structure. It is simple, but oversold. As far as complexity is concerned, I was referring to complex trust/family trust/insurance schemes that are very lucrative for financial professional especially when advising HNW clients. 

I've seen professionals running CCPC's for two decades before they retained a cent in the CCPC because they had two mortgages and kids expenses to pay. They received ridiculous advice to set that up so early, advice that was not in their best interests. 

Time value of money doesn't really play a role. It is a structure that quite simply allows tax deferral, and that has a lot of value....until Justin Trudeau takes it away. 

Rumours are swirling that the Liberal government is going to apply tests to CCPC's for SBD eligibility which will likely include things like number of full time employees (greater than 5?) and ratio of active income to liquid business assets (greater than 1?). The idea is to allow the SBD for only those who are truly running small businesses not investment vehicles. For most professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, IT consultants etc) it is simply an investment vehicle to defer tax. The document outlining their plan of attack is due in the coming months with implementation likely at the next federal budget. If there is anyone out there just initiating the process of setting one up, I would definitely hold off until this document is released as its not cheap to set up a CCPC and the maintenance accounting/legal costs go on forever until it is closed (which also costs money). You will want to know if the CCPC advantage still exists for you.


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