# The internal struggle in keeping up with the Joneses



## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

I have been thinking about this post for a while. Dont know that the title adequatly or correctly captures exactly what I am trying to say. In essence.......I am doing ok financially, 'better' than most and am 'scared' to spend money, or more accuratley money I dont yet have. Yet I see my friends with toys, big houses, more toys and even bigger houses every 5 years. I know they earn less than me. I know they dont have family money. How do they sleep at night?? I am about to embark on the journey of procreating (sounds dramatic....). So I am working out the details on how much I plan to save while pregnant so that my standard of living while on a short maternity leave is the same as it is now and also doesnt put me behind my current savings level. Yet I scan papers every weekend to see what house I could buy. In realty I have no need for a bigger house. Hence the internal struggle....For all you die hard savers on here, do you EVER feel this internal struggle or tug to consume/spend? I have good days and bad days....on the bad days I will go to the mall, walk around and spend some money. The good days I sit on my couch with a coffee and think about my retirement, enjoy my surroundings and yes, think about the fact that I probably sleep better at night than them. I am lucky in that my husband also feels the same, so no worries there about conflicting views on money. I dont know-maybe I need to see a shrink! So whaddya say forum folks? I cant be the only one. How do you cope? 



_The philosophy of "keeping up with the Joneses" has widespread effects on some societies. According to this philosophy, conspicuous consumption occurs when people care about their standard of living in relation to their peers_.


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

I cope by trying to ignore my wife while she watches HGTV and flips through the Houzz website looking for decorating and reno ideas.

It doesn't work. :|


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

My husband and I do not feel the need to show off our wealth. We are probably the richest in both our families and probably the most frugal too. Some of our siblings have staggering mortgage debts (which we don't) and still spend on toys. We only have 1 car between the 2 of us but they have 2. Come to think of it, maybe they are the smart ones who are living their lives to the fullest - enjoying every day while we are the fools who are always saving for tomorrow that never comes :tongue-new:

Oh well, you'll never be able to change our mental attitude - it's been stuck with us for years now but we are still happy


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

thebomb said:


> I have been thinking about this post for a while. Dont know that the title adequatly or correctly captures exactly what I am trying to say. In essence.......I am doing ok financially, 'better' than most and am 'scared' to spend money, or more accuratley money I dont yet have. Yet I see my friends with toys, big houses, more toys and even bigger houses every 5 years. I know they earn less than me. I know they dont have family money. How do they sleep at night?? I am about to embark on the journey of procreating (sounds dramatic....). So I am working out the details on how much I plan to save while pregnant so that my standard of living while on a short maternity leave is the same as it is now and also doesnt put me behind my current savings level. Yet I scan papers every weekend to see what house I could buy. In realty I have no need for a bigger house. Hence the internal struggle....For all you die hard savers on here, do you EVER feel this internal struggle or tug to consume/spend? I have good days and bad days....on the bad days I will go to the mall, walk around and spend some money. The good days I sit on my couch with a coffee and think about my retirement, enjoy my surroundings and yes, think about the fact that I probably sleep better at night than them. I am lucky in that my husband also feels the same, so no worries there about conflicting views on money. I dont know-maybe I need to see a shrink! So whaddya say forum folks? I cant be the only one. How do you cope?
> 
> 
> 
> _The philosophy of "keeping up with the Joneses" has widespread effects on some societies. According to this philosophy, conspicuous consumption occurs when people care about their standard of living in relation to their peers_.


Me doing my best Jewish mama impression - "We should all have such problems!" But really, this is a load of mashugana! In your bad days you resent the Joneses, so go to the mall to overspend, and in your good days you feel a sense of smug superiority to the Joneses because you sleep better. Read a book called "Green with Envy" by Shira Boss, a book which grapples with the exact feeling you are going through. The Joneses are really just a mirror. What they reflect is the real you.
Good luck and don't be too hard on yourself. You're clearly doing well. Be a good person and a good neighbour and the Joneses will soon start trying to keep up with you.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses - they are the ones with the 164.6% debt to income ratio.
They are the ones on shows like _Till Debt do us part_, _Money Makeover_ etc.

Gone are the idyllic days of suburban bunglows with white picket fences, and a Chevy truck on the driveway.
All that is left behind is a $500K mortgage and an upside down car payment.


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## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses - they are the ones with the 164.6% debt to income ratio.
> They are the ones on shows like _Till Debt do us part_, _Money Makeover_ etc.
> 
> Gone are the idyllic days of suburban bunglows with white picket fences, and a Chevy truck on the driveway.
> All that is left behind is a $500K mortgage and an upside down car payment.


^^^ I love watching "Til Debt Do Us Part".




Will Rogers said:


> Too many people spend money they haven’t earned, to buy things they don’t want, to impress people they don’t like.





Henry David Thoreau said:


> A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.


http://www.globalrichlist.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiTkU9eIFPs

The above give me enough perspective on my life to live humbly out of respect for the billions of people who don't have what I have.

More introspectively: I know that I won't always be as young and healthy as I am now.

I live frugally today so that my future self will have the money needed to live comfortably without having to work.



thebomb said:


> ...I see my friends with toys, big houses, more toys and even bigger houses every 5 years. I know they earn less than me. I know they dont have family money. *How do they sleep at night?*...


Cognitive dissonance.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Let me tell you my story , in 2001 my husband and I bought a brand new 1120 sq ft 2 bedroom /2 bathroom home for $172,000 and we put down $124,000 which still left us $xxx,xxx in the bank(all GIC) .We loved our house yet we all heard the little whispers at parties about how tiny our house was, when family got together it was never at our house for same reason.My husband finished the basement on $22,000 including furniture and we thought we lived in a castle!
In 2009 it got to point I could not answer the door as there were 3 stairs to go down so we decided to look for a new house.The house we wanted was not out there so we bought a piece of land and had one custom made.I won't say what my house cost but it was /is our dream home but when I signed the mortgage in April 2010 ,it was a 5 year loan and the reason we could do this is because of the tiny little house we lived in.BTW we sold that tiny house for $289,000 and the people who questioned our decisions to live in such a small house when we could afford more are 45-50 years old with 30+ years left on their homes.
Keep up with the Jone's?The Jones are broke ,the only way they keep things going is to kite checks and increase credit limits.They will owe more in 5 years than they do now because they never worry about paying down the debt ,as long as they can service the debt is all they care about.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

George Carlin: "Stuff"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

With the proliferation of "luxury" condo apartments for purchase and rent, I think it fulfills the desire of people who want to live in mutli-million dollar surroundings without actually having multi-millions of dollars.

For the price of a condo apartment (purchased or rented)............people can share ownership of a grand lobby, salt water pool, exercise room, library, underground parking, rooftop terrace...................

People like to be surrounded by beautiful things.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I think PA posted something similar recently. It's a common problem!

First of all - I think competition is good. Nothing wrong with comparing yourself to someone else and hopefully be able to motivate yourself to do better, whether it's better finances, more income or faster running or whatever.

For me, the key is measuring the total of the right metrics. If you are just looking at the Jones' visible assets (house + car + cottage? + vacations?), then you don't have the whole picture and shouldn't be making any kind of comparison. 

It's like basing a stock purchase decision on the dividend yield alone without knowing any other information about the company or industry. Just because one company has an unusually high yield doesn't make it a good investment.

If I'm going to compare myself to someone else, I need to know all their financials - all assets, all debts, income, age etc. Those are all key variables that have to be considered.

I would then have to add up all these data and try to determine who is 'winning' and see if in fact I am behind them or if in fact, maybe it is I who is ahead of them if non-visible assets (savings, non-debt) are included.

As for the secondary issue of should you buy that bigger house, I would look at your overall financial goals and see if buying that house will fit within that framework. Yes, some compromise will have to happen, but it's possible that it could work. But it has to be a decision based entirely on what you want from your house as well as the rest of your finances and not some comparison to anyone else.

Good luck with the procreation procedure.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

I think it is all about perception. Living in surroundings of grandeur make one feel successful - even if experiencing this by renting those things, they have the means to experience it. For example, if not buying 100% of an item such as a house or a car for instance, then using debt to leverage the acquisition. However, the perception may not be real, but it sure can be fun although it has it's cons. 

I think we all feel the pressure and it depends on what pressures we are inclined to. Me, I don't want a fancy expensive car like the Jones', my big want item on the Jones' list is the house. Other people I know don't care what my partner and I drive or live in; I find it's me who wants those things more rather than feeling the social pressures. 

So, is it keeping up with the Jones' or keeping up with our dreams?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

The most financially peaceful moment in my life was when I first realized that nobody really cared what material possessions I had (or didn't have) and adjusted my spending accordingly. This had *ZERO* social impact and I still feel good about myself.

Today, I live far below my means with lots of money to spare. Not because I have a higher income, but because I have lower expenses and know how to say 'NO' to most consumer items and am saving my hard-earned money instead.

Let the 164.6 crowd continue to sneer and laugh but I know who'll have the last laugh.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Let the 164.6 crowd continue to sneer and laugh but *I know who'll have the last laugh*.


The government?

:biggrin:


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

I like the Carlin clip. Good one. No, I am not looking to actually buy a bigger house, I dont need one. Young & Ambitious- good point, is it really keeping up with the Joneses or keeping up with my dreams?? Thats probably closer to reality it. Thanks for the cheap couch session everyone.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

thebomb said:


> No, I am not looking to actually buy a bigger house


If you scan the papers each week looking at what houses you can buy, I'd say that a bigger house is definitely on the wish list even if it's not really a plan. Anyway - I didn't specifically mean a house per se, it could refer to anything the Jones have that you desire...


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Wishlist yes....wont lie, I would like a bigger house.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Like Four Pillars wrote, I think a little healthy competition is a great thing. Nothing wrong with comparisons.

Where people struggle, as do I time to time, is being happy with what you have. There will always be people in the world with a little bit, or a lot more. A good reminder for you - there WILL ALWAYS be many others with a lot less. 

Having a big home with tons of debt is a poor comparison to a modest home with little to no debt. I'd much rather have the latter.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

It humours me a lot, I won't lie, to live well below my means. I really have never understood the keeping up with the Jones thought process.

Sometimes I think that people who live their lives like that are weak and undisciplined.


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

Our neighbours are 66 years old and still working. She recently had knee replacement surgery and can barely walk, he is in OK health but hates having to work. Both need to keep working for a few more years. They have less than $30,000 in RRSP(s), and no other savings to speak of, and no pension. Their house is paid off, but they have considerable debt. But the good news is that they have 2 relatively new jeeps in their driveway, and bought a new car for their daughter who still lives at home at 30 years old. I'm sure none of their vehicles are paid off, including their new kitchen, bathroom, brick driveway, etc. I'd be incredibly scared if I was in their situation.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

mind_business - that is nuts....I can't imagine working at age 66 because I had to.


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## Robillard (Apr 11, 2009)

Try to keep up with the Joneses? Don't even bother. Learn to accept that there will always be people smarter, richer, or more "successful" than you. The challenge of life is not to do better than others, but to make the most of the sweat of your labour and the gifts with which God, nature or coincidence has endowed you. Ultimately, you are the judge of your own personal success. 

Of course, it's easy to say that. It is hard to deny human nature and not live life envying others and coveting their stuff.


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## brocko (Apr 20, 2009)

This morning I had the occasion to accompany someone to one of those Bay Street and Yorkville Avenue condo buildings. I was only sitting in the lobby for a short while. The concierge at his desk and folks coming and going. My first observation was I could afford the chair I was sitting in but that was it. Really fancy high end cars being pulled up to the door by the garage man so that the residents could get in and go about their day. Folks were much better dressed coming off the elevators or coming into the building from the street than most people busily wallking along the street. I like to notice shoes and jackets as that tells me alot about people. Anyhow boring story short these are not the Joneses from the burbs so if these are the types of people you are trying to keep up with then your really really rich and you should be happy. But if your from the burbs then really who cares. Keeping up is relative and a waste of time. The rich do not shop at Ikea for the most part while the world of the rich Joneses is just someplace we might visit but only the lobby.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I dont know,i think the cmf community might be WORSE than the general population(we care soo much about money,talk about it every day)remember that is not the norm!(most people dont do a cost by cost basis everyday on all things)

You could take a ''average'' guy that has a little assets and little networth but has:
A family
healthy kids
beautiful wife
family dog
Walks into the door each day and has a son the wraps his arms around his next-''dad's home"-Is THAT guy not wealthy!?
Reminds of the movie (familyman)wth Nic cage,if anybody has seen it.
Just because the jones have $$ dont mean ****----its like the saying-money doesnt buy happiness,most people want to findout thou.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I have had a few rye and cokes tonight(weiser's special blend)The point is:Start being thankful for what you have.Stop THINKING THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER ON THE OTHER_SIDE.....iT AINT IN MOST CASES,but people are to stupid to figure that out.

Take stock in what you have.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^^^ +1 ... your health, your being/life (or everyone's else for that matter) is most important ... your car, your house, your coin-collections, etc are all secondary. Have (or try) a good day.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Robillard said:


> Try to keep up with the Joneses? Don't even bother. Learn to accept that there will always be people smarter, richer, or more "successful" than you. The challenge of life is not to do better than others, but to make the most of the sweat of your labour and the gifts with which God, nature or coincidence has endowed you. Ultimately, you are the judge of your own personal success.
> 
> Of course, it's easy to say that. It is hard to deny human nature and not live life envying others and coveting their stuff.


So true. It really doesn't matter if you have 1 million, or 10 million. As long as you have enough for you and your lifestyle (now and in retirement), then you are good.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

My extended family is dominated by cash-poor, house-toy-rich types. Many of them seem to delight in their recent car purchases or 200k renos. My wife and I live in a shoebox condo (mortgage free at least) and drive a 12 year old vehicle. We have very little "bling" with which to impress the relatives. I can feel actual scorn and pity directed at us due to our apparent "cheapness". At a family gathering recently I was tempted to let slip our montly savings rate or net worth. Or the fact that in a few years my stock dividends will be close to matching my salary thus allowing me to quit work if I choose. I refrained... but it was hard. It actually irritates me that I care this much about what people think of us.


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## scomac (Aug 22, 2009)

Jon_Snow said:


> It actually irritates me that I care this much about what people think of us.


When this is no longer a concern, you will finally be free. I know it sounds cliched, but being of the mind that what others' think is irrelevant is the secret to beating this keep up with the Joneses mentality that seems to afflict so much of our society.

Rather than ever feeling the need to let it slip what my savings rate/net worth is, I take my satisfaction in that perhaps others look at me as Mr. Jones. How have I managed to do what I've done at this age?


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Cal said:


> Sometimes I think that people who live their lives like that are weak and undisciplined.


You're damn right they are...


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

It must be an instrinsic part of our genetic make-up as humans. All through history to now, we see examples of people building extravagent architecturial artpeices for no purpose aside from aesthetic pleasure and well the ability to boast and take pride in such achievements. I'm sure there is a psychology field on this-I guess we don't have any psychologists on the board eh?


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

We much prefer the, relative, anonymity of living in a small condo townhouse, driving a small older car, dressing in jeans....and knowing, (but not revealing), that we possibly (probably?) have more cash money than many of those around us.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I wish I was rich enough to be homeless, like this guy...

The Homeless Billionaire



> After making his billions, Mr. Berggruen, 46, lost interest in acquiring things: They didn’t satisfy him, and in fact had become something of a burden. So he started paring down his material life, selling off his condo in New York, his mansion in Florida and his only car. He hatched plans to leave his fortune to charity and his art collection to a new museum in Berlin.
> 
> For him, wealth is about lasting impact, *not stuff*.
> 
> ...


More here



> ... he keeps what little he owns in storage and *travels light*, carrying just his iPhone, a few pairs of jeans, a fancy suit or two, and some white monogrammed shirts he wears until they are threadbare.


Travellin' light... it's the only way to fly... through the journey of life, that is :encouragement:


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

I don't make friends with Jones's. They are what my real friends would call consumer wh0res.


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

When people are on their deathbeds not having more material things is not a common regret as this site found and many others concur as well.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

^ I'm going to be one of those men in reason #2.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I save like I do so I am NOT one of those men in category #2. No way in hell that is going to me me.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

You're lucky you can save that way.

I make $36k/year, which means I need to put in all the overtime and holidays that are available.

I don't even remember the last time I actually had a "holiday". Maybe like 8 years ago when I was 14. I'll definitely be one of those men, even if I retire at 50.

Money comes at the expense of something else for most people.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My brother has terminal cancer he has sold off all his things and even though he has quite a bit of cash now since the house closed he desires very little ,he spends $20.00 a week on a lobster that is probably the only thing he spends money on and likes to go to Tim Horton's every day.He has one child and he has set things up so she will get no lump sum amounts just $1000 a month until money is gone.He said if he sets her up she won't learn the value of hard work and take everything for granted.She just turned 17 in October.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> You're lucky you can save that way.
> 
> I make $36k/year, which means I need to put in all the overtime and holidays that are available.
> 
> ...


KaeJS, at your age I didn't make what you do. Alot of things can change over time. If you are in your mid 30's still making 36k, that is another matter. You will probably meet a woman whom you may or may not marry - effectively doubling your income. That is a game changer. Like myself, you will probably live on one income, and bank the other...

I only know you from message board postings, but would be very surprised if you will be regretting much about your life on your death bed. For a young guy, you seem to have your **** together.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

Anyone who want to learn about "The Joneses" should read:

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Acting-Rich-Millionaire/dp/1118011570
http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

sags said:


> With the proliferation of "luxury" condo apartments for purchase and rent, I think it fulfills the desire of people who want to live in mutli-million dollar surroundings without actually having multi-millions of dollars.
> 
> For the price of a condo apartment (purchased or rented)............people can share ownership of a grand lobby, salt water pool, exercise room, library, underground parking, rooftop terrace...................
> 
> People like to be surrounded by beautiful things.


Let's just say in most cases the apartment rental stock isn't anything to write home about http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/...00-kiss-my-***-metcap-you-shady-bastards.html


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

scomac said:


> When this ('what others think of you') is no longer a concern, you will finally be free. I know it sounds cliched, but being of the mind that what others' think is irrelevant is the secret to beating this keep up with the Joneses mentality that seems to afflict so much of our society.


+1

Madison Avenue sells by generating incredible insecurity in everyone. When the day comes that you don't care what others think or even take a little pride in your 8 year old Civic or tired old jeans, then you are free. It's great to know what your savings rate, living expenses and net worth are compared to others but who really needs to know and would it really help anyone.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

larry81 said:


> Anyone who want to learn about "The Joneses" should read:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Acting-Rich-Millionaire/dp/1118011570
> http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0671015206


Great books. Definitely encouraged the kids to read these. Hoping to empower them to resist the sirens' call!


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

I have traded,

*"keeping up with the Joneses"*

with​
*"being financially independent, sooner"*


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

avrex said:


> I have traded,
> 
> *"keeping up with the Joneses"*
> 
> ...


IMHO, even when you are financially independent, there no point in spending money to "show off".

Once you reach a certain amount of money, its actually the other way around. You just keep it to yourself and avoid bragging about how much you have in he bank.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

I have never tried to keep up with anyone. I just try to figure out what will make me happy, and then try to spend as little money as possible to acquire it. Doing anything else, and you are not buying the object, you are buying something else: status, self esteem, and related abstractions.

Frankly, at any given time I have so much F'ed up in my life, I don't see how people can even have the time to give a damn about what someone else is doing.

Decide what you want, rethink it every once in a while in case you got it wrong, or something changed, and work towards it.

hboy43


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

uptoolate said:


> +1
> 
> Madison Avenue sells by generating incredible insecurity in everyone. When the day comes that you don't care what others think or even take a little pride in your 8 year old Civic or tired old jeans, then you are free. It's great to know what your savings rate, living expenses and net worth are compared to others but who really needs to know and would it really help anyone.





avrex said:


> I have traded,
> 
> *"keeping up with the Joneses"*
> 
> ...





hboy43 said:


> Hi:
> 
> I have never tried to keep up with anyone. I just try to figure out what will make me happy, and then try to spend as little money as possible to acquire it. Doing anything else, and you are not buying the object, you are buying something else: status, self esteem, and related abstractions.
> 
> ...


+1

Once I started playing by my own rules I started to feel better about my finances.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I can relate to how you feel.

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/12322-When-does-one-actually-Get-There-quot

I am happy with my life. However, I feel that I am often thinking about the future and savings, and feel that I haven't made it yet. I know by most standards I have done well.

My spouse and I are usually quite level headed with finances, and have the right balance for us. However, we both get sucked in when we see others have much larger places than ours, and we want a bigger house, etc. We just remind ourselves how great it is to be mortgage free, and that by not going into debt, we have so many more choices in life. 

We think that because we have no mortgage, and no debt, that it has factored into our careers. We both enjoy our work, and are there by choice. If one of us got sick of it, we could leave without jepordizing our families financial security. It's quite a liberating feeling to know that you are at work because you want to be not because you have to be. I work in a highly political environment, and oftne have to make choices between doing what I think is the right think vs. falling in to politics. I always choose to make the right choice because I have no fear of getting fired or black listed. My strong finances has actually given me a lot of leverage at work. So when I see these larger houses that I want, I always go back to the security I already have.


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## Pennypincher (Dec 3, 2012)

Plugging Along, I completely agree with you with your above statement.

To the OP, having kids changes your outlook a lot. It also changes your ability to earn income, dare I say. My spouse and I have had to make career adjustments after having two kids. One of us works hard, and long hours and the other works to keep their career alive so that when the kids are in elementary school, the potential to earn income is still available. But daycare costs are huge. If you live in a major city, expect to pay $1,200/month for a good daycare. Add another kid to that! Jobs can also be very unstable even when you don't expect it. Making the decision for one parent to stay home is very tough for everyone who has kids. But of course it is all worth it to have kids. You also might wish to trade your car in for a minivan or SUV or whatever. Travelling isn't as easy or cheap with a family.

I compare myself a lot to my friends that I went to University with. It's idiotic of me though, as they all have different circumstances which add to their financial picture now. Some were given a condo when they graduated. Some don't have any kids and both work 12 hours days. Of course they are going to have more. Do I want to switch places with them? Probably not.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

To me as long as you keep a respectable well kept house then you can forget about the Joneses. 

You owe your neighborhood a decent house with the grass cut, not full of garbage, rats and not falling apart. 

After that get smoking deals on stuff to fix your house and that will make the Joneses wish that they did what you did with the same effect without the debt.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

One thing I like about being a snowbird is that there is little Jones' effect. Ex-CEOs and retired postal workers et al all intermingle and are evaluated on what kind of person they are. Anyone driving an expensive new car is looked upon with suspicion (until we get to know them). Taking the local bus is a sign of courage.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

So I had a lovely reminder today about why I save for today and tomorrow....my inlaws called asking for 40 bucks to buy groceries. 66 and 61 yrs old, retired, recently refinanced mortgage, bought a new car 3 weeks ago.....pension cheque doesnt come for 2 more weeks. I guess I dont have to look too far to remind me why keeping up with the Joneses is a sham.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

thebomb said:


> So I had a lovely reminder today about why I save for today and tomorrow....my inlaws called asking for 40 bucks to buy groceries. 66 and 61 yrs old, retired, recently refianced mortgage, bought a new car 3 weeks ago.....pension cheque doesnt come for 2 more weeks. I guess I dont have to look too far to remind me why keeping up with the Joneses is a sham.


Ouch! Hope that their gas tank is full!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I really hope you didn't give them any money.....


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Thebomb you have to start complaining to your inlaws about how broke you are and that you can't afford Christmas presents this year and so on. This should stop them from asking money from you.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Give them the 40 bucks with your blessing.You don't get many chances to be a hero to your inlaws this cheap.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

40 bucks for groceries, 2 more weeks to go before pension cheque arrives. That's $2.85/day for two. I hope that their pantry is not bare... or that they have someone else to call for help (more kids?).


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Ya $40 for two weeks is really tight. This is coming form the unofficial gorcery saving champion.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

ugh....I can go on, but this is a money forum, not a family counselling forum

We have tried all of the above recommendations....it just doesnt matter. Their financial literacy is non-existant. I have tried to educate them or provide assistance in their financial matters, but to no avail (in other words, I was told to mind my own business...) So instead I predict they will lose the house and I anticipate it is just a matter of time before the car is repossessed.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You wonder why some people want to live constantly broke..........but it doesn't seem to bother them enough to change.

But then, some people never watch the news, have no idea what a fiscal cliff is, don't know anything about Iran, or North Korea, and live their life with a permanent smile of bliss and ignorance.

They probably live longer than the rest of us too.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

thebomb said:


> So I had a lovely reminder today about why I save for today and tomorrow....my inlaws called asking for 40 bucks to buy groceries. 66 and 61 yrs old, retired, recently refinanced mortgage, bought a new car 3 weeks ago.....pension cheque doesnt come for 2 more weeks. I guess I dont have to look too far to remind me why keeping up with the Joneses is a sham.


I suspect that for most, only a true encounter with poverty when young gets conservative financial values going. My Dad used to go north to pick wild raspberries for days at a time I believe. (He was never keen on food gardening as an adult!). He was also volunteered to help Grandpa heave rocks and concrete blocks around, he was 13 years old when they built a public monument in the Ottawa valley. Mom was fatherless by age 7 due to untimely death, and Grandma carried on as best she could running a little corner store. They are now well off and I am at no risk of needing to financially support them.

I have a similar problem with a relative with a mental illness or defect or however one wants to label or not label. She receives a disability pension and squanders her resources according to my value judgements. According to hers, prepackaged crap food is a better idea than a bag of carrots. I have to accept that there really is nothing I can do about it. To take a different attitude is an exercise in driving oneself nuts.

hboy43


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

thebomb said:


> I have tried to educate them or provide assistance in their financial matters, but to no avail (in other words, I was told to mind my own business...)


Jeez if they came to me asking for money after telling me that, I'd be inclined to remind them of that, and inform them that sending them money wouldn't be minding my own business.


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## Tornbysaber (Nov 25, 2012)

I have the same problem, just today I was staring at ads for brand new CTS-V, I want one sooooo much haha. I had to keep telling myself it's not a good idea.


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## randomthoughts (May 23, 2010)

I've always felt that it's better to be pitied than envied, so I try to keep a low profile. The illusion is wearing thin, though - no one close to me really believes that I'm as poor as I portray, but most of them are nice enough to not call me on it - but I just don't get offered as many hand-me-downs.

I take genuine pleasure in being shown other people's prized possessions - I love extravagant things, I just don't feel the need to own them... or care for them. I occasionally toy with the idea of purchasing a large house or a fancy car. And then re-consider: do I want to clean it? pay taxes? insure it? make payments? <shudder>

So the way I cope is by being content in knowing that I can have almost anything I truly want, if I'm willing to make the necessary sacrifices. (Except maybe a huge windfall of undeserved money... that would be really nice! Don't know what I'd do with it, but I want it!)


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

To get back to the original question... maybe your condition (expecting a blessed event) has caused a desire to feather your nest.

I get the urge to buy random stuff sometimes. I usually go to a thrift store and buy a small appliance (last one was a veg steamer for $3 bucks) or some clothes. This seems to satisfy the craving cheap.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I retired at 58. We never bother keeping up with the Jones. Still driving our 97 Camry. We travel extensively.

The Jones are still working, still trying to pay off their Visa and Amex balances, making lease payments on both of their new cars, and trying to figure out how to lower the balance of their HELOC.

It all comes down to making good choices and establishing priorities.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

I bought a new truck and a snowmobile in 2012 - guess I am the Jones


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