# Health Insurance while in the States???



## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

What is reasonable to pay?

I am over 65 now and my Visa and Am Ex cards don't cover now.

I started to look around and did an online RBC questionnaire. The quote was $505 for a month in Florida.
That is more than my airfare return.

Anyone have experience with buying health insurance? Any tips and suggestions very welcome.:encouragement:


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

I guess the first question is "How's your health and what, if any, medications are you on?".................at 71, ISTM that I pay waaaay less...perhaps 1/4 of that...(we use Medipac)


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

*Thank YOU Nemo2* for your prompt reply. What is ISTM?

Actually I am not on any meds, thank goodness and I am very grateful for that.

But, I did have a brush with breast Cancer this year so I added that. 
But a lumpectomy surgery has completely removed it.
So this in my only strike at the moment.

My heart is strong as an OX and BP too.

I am very grateful to be Healthy but may have to fly without health insurance.
I believe OHIP partially kicks in for anything if needed. Anyone know anything about that?


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

Mine is free until age 75 with my CU Platinum Mastercard.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We are under 65 but we have bought travel insurance lately.

We found that the easier it is to buy on line, ie from the banks, etc, the more expensive it is and the poorer the coverage is.

We finally found and travel insurance company and dealt directly with them. You can in fact get a one year policy that covers you for multiple trips of X days. We found the coverage to be better and we were able to select a deductible. I think we selected 5K as a deductible. It reduced our premium by about 30 percent. We were primarily concerned about large dollar claims. We dealt with Travel Underwriters in Richmond, BC. They were very good. Last year we needed 5 months of out of country medical insurance.

A number of years ago I took my father on a cruise. At that time he was in his 70's. Our travel agent, a very good one, would not sell him travel insurance because she thought that it was too expensive. She recommended very quietly that we 'shop around'. This was for a two week trip. He had Blue Cross as he was a CN Pensioner. We drove over to BC Blue Cross in Burnaby. He got a ONE YEAR policy(multiple trips up to 21 days) for the same price as the TA's two week offering. Not certain if it was because he was already a Blue Cross member. May not be the same now but if you do have any Blue Cross benefits it might be worth looking into.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

RedRose said:


> *Thank YOU Nemo2* for your prompt reply. What is ISTM?
> 
> Actually I am not on any meds, thank goodness and I am very grateful for that.
> 
> ...


ISTM = It Seems To Me.

OHIP.....AFAIK (As Far As I Know), but others will probably have much more info, the hospital, etc, rates that OHIP will fund, (especially if you're in the US), are minuscule compared to the charges you might face.

Here's a link to Medipac, (they're affiliated with Canadian Snowbirds Assoc), where you can get a quick online quote:

http://www.medipac.com/quickquote

(I should add that I/we have never had to submit claims so I can't comment on that side of it.)


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

try CARP
and make sure you think about the questions on the form and answer them truthfully
if something goes really bad while in the states, the bills will start to pile up fast and the insurance company will go over your application with a fine tooth comb


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We actually found CARP promoted insurance to be expensive compared to others on the market.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

fraser said:


> We actually found CARP promoted insurance to be expensive compared to others on the market.


could be, the problem is in the fine print ... there is a LOT in the fine print

and it's hard to suss out

i would pay the extra for having CARP done the work of vetting the policy

you pay a few dollars more but i would say it is well worth it


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

This is hard to answer, other than "shop around", because the best rates seem to be with various "affinity" group packages, rather than specific insurance companies. If you are a member of CAA, an alumni association; a professional association; see if they have an associated travel insurance plan.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

My parents are in the late 70s and use ama for their travel insurance. They even have yearly rates.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I should add that my spouse and I have an annual travel health insurance plan, that includes trip cancellation insurance. If you are going to be traveling regularly it may be cheaper than buying health and trip cancellation insurance on a per-trip basis. But the cost of all the heath insurance plans does go up significantly with age after 65.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> Here's a link to Medipac, (they're affiliated with Canadian Snowbirds Assoc), where you can get a quick online quote:
> 
> http://www.medipac.com/quickquote
> 
> (I should add that I/we have never had to submit claims so I can't comment on that side of it.)


We use Medipac for the 212 days we can spend out of BC each year. The insurance for the whole period is less than you quote. I had 2 claims for the first time ever and they paid them promptly. My only beef was that they mailed a cheque to my home.

My only pre-existing condition is high blood pressure and it is controlled with medication.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

kcowan said:


> The insurance for the whole period is less than you quote.


But, but....I didn't provide a quote. :wink: 

Just looking at the past two trips........each over three weeks, (so we probably took out a one month policy), and mine were ~$125.........my lady's were less since she's younger by a decade.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I don't have a reference for you but my parents at age 71 and 71 paid about $700 each for 3 months coverage.I do not know how much the cancer risk raises your rate but imagine it could be a factor.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> This is hard to answer, other than "shop around", because the best rates seem to be with various "affinity" group packages, rather than specific insurance companies. If you are a member of CAA, an alumni association; a professional association; see if they have an associated travel insurance plan.


and if you just shop for the best rate you are making a _big_ mistake ... policies differs considerably and that can make a _huge_ difference for older people with pre-exisiting conditions


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## houska (Feb 6, 2010)

Am curious - is there *long-term* medical travel insurance one can sign up for?

I have one set of elderly relatives who though one of them has had a number of health issues (multiple bouts of cancer, stroke, etc) still has nice coverage through a grandfathered employer health plan that includes travel medical. I have another set of relatives in their early 60s, thinking of becoming regular snowbirds, but without such a plan and scared what would happen to their travel health insurance afterwards if/when they might have a health event. Can one sign up somewhere with underwriting as to one's current health, but rates and coveraged fixed (or just escalating with age) in successive years? Of course it would be more expensive than without this protection (since the insured pool needs to cover the risk that some of those insured will have their health degenerate over time), but it would be predicable.

To be clear, by *long term* here I mean premiums and coverage fixed or predictable for several years into the future, not length of individual trip. Their individual trips would be a couple of months each.


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## Cdnwife (Sep 10, 2013)

fatcat said:


> and if you just shop for the best rate you are making a _big_ mistake ... policies differs considerably and that can make a _huge_ difference for older people with pre-exisiting conditions


I agree with fatcat. My BIL, his father was air lifted back to Canada after suffering a stroke. Insurance company took on the cost as the daily costs of hospital care were going to be greater than an air ambulance. So yes, costs can be huge. Be sure you are covered sufficiently. You will think the extra $100 premium is a bargain if a big claim ever needs to be made and you are sufficiently covered.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> But, but....I didn't provide a quote. :wink: ...


Yes I should have said OP not you. Sorry for not being more clear.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

houska said:


> Am curious - is there *long-term* medical travel insurance one can sign up for?


Perhaps this would be best suited for a new thread? Anyway, talk to a Travel Health agent. There are different types of coverages - 1) Short Term or One Trip Coverage, 2) Long Term One Trip Coverage, 3) Frequent Travellers Annual Plan, 4) Expatriate Insurance, etc. #3 would provide coverage for any number of trips in a 1 yr period - with a typical duration from 3-90 days. I'm not familiar with any plans that would provide coverage for "multiple yrs". Talk to a travel agent, ins agent or broker, Financial planner, etc. and they should be able to inform you on the types of coverages available.


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

*Thank YOU...ALL*

*A BIG Thank YOU to ALL* for your input and experiences.

I am actively researching now as I need coverage starting next Wednesday.
Some great leads there.

Cheers Everyone! You are a terrific group.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Please let us know the results of your inquiries. Premiums, coverage change over time.


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## lmcfaden (Apr 4, 2011)

We do not have a separate "medical travel insurance", however after retirement we transferred into a medical/health insurance plan that includes out of Province/Country trips. My thoughts were, as I age, travel insurance would increase dramatically, and having an annual Plan would lessen the increases.

When my wife and I retired, one now 62 and one to be 58 this year, our annual plan cost (80% drugs, etc...etc...but multi trip up to 60 days each per year) was $2200, now around $2800 after 5 years. This seems like a lot, however it is available until age 80. Out of Province and Country is Medical is 60 days per trip, and must return to Province of residence for 24 hours, 72 hours after age 80.

It seems expensive, however it ties into a whole health care plan for us.


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

Thank YOU All for sharing your experiences and I hope this helps others that are in the same boat as me.

So far:- 

RBC has quoted $505, TD $440.79

Medipac $299 or $466 for the whole year.

I ran out of steam today with other travel stuff.

I need to get a quote from CARP and then make my decision.
Looks like Medipac right now. * Cheers Nemo2.* for the link.

Thanks again to ALL for this.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

RedRose said:


> Thank YOU All for sharing your experiences and I hope this helps others that are in the same boat as me.
> 
> So far:-
> 
> ...


one bit of advice, you are over 65 and probably have pre-existing conditions

1) read the pre-existing language carefully
2) think carefully about how you answer the health questions


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## PrairieGal (Apr 2, 2011)

*Do not* go to the U.S. without medical insurance. No-one ever thinks something is going to happen to them, but it can. My husband had a stroke while we were in Las Vegas, and the total bill, including air ambulance back home once he was stable would have been over $200,000 if we didn't have insurance. Thank God we were covered through his work health insurance.

You can go to www.insuremytrip.com and compare quotes from various companies.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

These numbers are similar to our experience last year. Additionally, we found that the bank and Manulife on line policies were the highest in terms of price and the lowest in terms of coverage amounts. The auto club prices were also high.


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

Wow! Thanks again for the advice and links.

This stuff is getting quite confusing at this point.:cower:

Thanks again ALL for your support, it is much appreciated. :encouragement:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fatcat said:


> and if you just shop for the best rate you are making a _big_ mistake ... *policies differs considerably and that can make a huge difference for older people with pre-exisiting conditions*


Yes, that is something that you need to consider when applying for travel insurance. Most insurance companies use pre-existing conditions as a way to weasel out of paying the exhorbitant
US medical costs and in some cases you could be on your own after OHIP (or whatever provincial health insurance you have) pays the US hospitals what they would pay in Ontario.

History of breast cancer (lumpectomy) is probably considered to be a pre-existing condition, even if you don't have the symptoms at the time you apply. If you have to be hospitalized because
in the month or so, you are down there, you get pains and have to be hospitalized, they could consider that a pre-existing condition. Same with high blood pressure/angina etc that could
lead to a mild heart attack while there.

I remember back in the nineties, my daughter flew to Porto Rico (US) to visit a friend and developed a abdominal problem (blockage) that was due to previous surgery at the Toronto Sick Kids.
The travel insurance we took out would not pay for the entire cost of air ambulance back to Sick Kids in Toronto. And I don't remember if OHIP paid anything. We had to file a claim with
my Nortel employee health insurance provider which then split the costs with the travel insurance company for the air ambulance. Thank goodness that they didn't attempt surgery
on an existing condition because that would have pushed the costs of treatment tremendously...it was only the cost of air ambulance from Porto Rico to Toronto.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Health, dental Insurers (ManuLife et al) tend to have all sorts of exclusion and limitation clauses in their policies, especially for seniors.
About 3 years ago after Nortel went bankrupt, my pensioner life.medical and dental insurance ceased.
I examined a couple of the medical dental insurance schemes for those over 65 and found out that not only the premiums are excessively high, but they have limitations on the maximum amount
they would pay out in a given year. Not only that, but in dental, the max amount they would pay for the first 2 years with a policy with them would be slightly under the premiums they collected
from you. About $1500 a year in my case. So I have no life or dental or health insurance..except for OHIP. So far I have saved $4500 by not enrolling in their "cover me" insurance scheme.
Last year I had to have a molar implant which ended up costing me nearly $5000 out of pocket. The dental insurance if I had gone for it would cover $0 as they don't cover implants.


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

Good point *Carverman* thanks for sharing. I too have no health plan only OHIP.
I lost it with Manulife when my husband died 3 years ago.

So far, so good with no plan in place.
Even with the recent surgery I was not out of pocket at all.
I get two cleanings and check ups a year at my Dentist for under $400 and Rx I have none.
I may end up on Tamoxifen in about another month so that will be my only script.

But, I do feel I need to get some Travel Health coverage as I will be staying with my son and I wouldn't want him in an awkward position for the sake of $500.

I love coming here I have learned so much from you guys. Thanks Again!


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Please let us know what your decision was and what were the key factors in that decision. 

We travel frequently and are always interested in this and in how others fared with their decision. 
Like others, we would not go stateside without insurance. We always ensure that the program includes emergency evacuation as we cruise fairly often. 

We hope that we never have to make a claim.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

RedRose said:


> Good point *Carverman* thanks for sharing. I too have no health plan only OHIP.
> 
> But, I do feel I need to get some Travel Health coverage as I will be staying with my son and I wouldn't want him in an awkward position for the sake of $500.
> 
> I love coming here I have learned so much from you guys. Thanks Again!


Yes RedRose (like the tea by the same name?)... "What's in a name? that which we call a rose .By any other name would smell as sweet"; (From Shakespeare Romeo&Juliet ActII scene 2..
but I digress...

Yes, you need some kind of travel insurance..even if you don`t get sick physically while there..any accident could happen and you have to have at least some insurance to protect
yourself or fly you back home in an air ambulance if the condition is very severe.. so ask lots of questions and choose carefully...once you pays your money...you need to know what
the coverage is.


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## Emma (May 18, 2013)

FYI, my friend had a seizure while in California this January. Four hours in Emerg then discharged. Cost $16000 plus $1200 for the ambulance. Tests only no treatment. Diagnosis mild dehydration. Fortunately he has coverage as part of his retirement package. Personally I use Medipac. They have a 90 stability clause which is one of the best. A change of medication affects the stability clause so review your policy carefully. If in doubt go over the questionnaire with your Doctor.


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## celishave (May 8, 2010)

Just curious, but what happens in a case where you get sick in us,are treated but have no insurance? The hospital cannot turn someone away. You will be left with a big bill,but what are the consequences?? They cant lien your house nor garnishee your wages nor cite as reason for reentry to usa in future. It will go to collection....so what? Just ditch your number!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Good question Celishave ,wonder can they put liens on property in Canada? Our friends are going through this now with almost $300,000 and they are worried since they have their home paid off if one day they can put a lien on the house. They figure they can never go back to USA as for sure he will never get insurance again.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Good question Celishave ,wonder can they put liens on property in Canada? Our friends are going through this now with almost $300,000 and they are worried since they have their home paid off if one day they can put a lien on the house. They figure they can never go back to USA as for sure he will never get insurance again.


AFAIK, a US Hospital or doctor cannot put a lien on Canadian property from the US. If there is some provision in international law that they could, they would first have to go to a
Canadian court and get a judgement, which isn't easy when it's for medical treatment. However, the hospital can put the unpaid medical bill into collection and the collectors can hound you until the statute of limitations applies. As you mentioned, they better not set foot in the US, because if there is a judgement by some US court against them , it could have some effect on perhaps being refused entry? ..and if travelling through Georgia, don't get stopped for speeding!..because you will be thrown in their jails and require thousands of dollars to
pay the local judge to get out of jail...very nasty local laws down there. 

Insurance?, you can always get travel insurance..for what good it will do you..it they decide not to pay. Rule of thumb, when travelling in the US, don't get sick or get in an accident.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

celishave said:


> Just curious, but what happens in a case where you get sick in us,are treated but have no insurance? The hospital cannot turn someone away. You will be left with a big bill,but what are the consequences?? They cant lien your house nor garnishee your wages nor cite as reason for reentry to usa in future. It will go to collection....so what? Just ditch your number!


AFAIK, if you have no insurance and no CC large enough to pay their estimated bill, they will only treat you ONLY if it's a matter of life and death. (heart attack)..for anything else, you better be prepared to cut your vacation short and either drive back or get on the next plane home.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The big problem in the US has been that the uninsured would go to emergency where they cannot be refused treatment. Sure the bill goes to collections but never gets collected.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

kcowan said:


> The big problem in the US has been that the uninsured would go to emergency where they cannot be refused treatment. Sure the bill goes to collections but never gets collected.


My married daughter is an RN and has been living in the Phoenix area of AZ for 4 years now. She has had some experience in this regard although not as a emerg nurse. She told me that while
most hospitals by state law have to take in emergency patients with no insurance or not having any way to pay, they can refuse treatment at their discretion IF the emergency dept has
too many patients already at the time and they have no emergency beds available (at $10K+) per day, so they will send the paramedics that are transporting you to another hospital and if
that hospital has the same situation..to another hospital. It's bit like musical chairs. The hospitals will NOT accept OHIP as a form of payment. It has to be either an insurance plan
or AMex, VISA, MC etc. Most of the hospitals down there are privately run by a company.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

Not sure if they are warranted or not but CBC recently did a horror story about a couple who bought health insurance through AMA and they weren't covered for something they thought they were. It cost them $105k out of pocket


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OurBigFatWallet said:


> Not sure if they are warranted or not but CBC recently did a horror story about a couple who bought health insurance through AMA and they weren't covered for something they thought they were. It cost them $105k out of pocket


We are starting to hear these stories coming up more and more. I think some ONLINE CHAT LINE (in Canada like CARP (Canadian Association of Retired Persons) should be set up for travellers to the US to consult *first* before spending money on a travel plan, only to find out during a health crisis in the US that you will not be covered due to a "Pre-existing Condition.
http://www.travelguard.ca/chartisint/internet/CA/en/files/CT 222100 P1 0812_tcm2011-450843.pdf
See warinings:

*Pre-Existing Condition Medical Exclusion Identifier ME#2 *


> If Your exclusion identifier is ME#2 Your Emergency Medical and Dental Coverage is subject to all of the exclusions set out in the General Exclusions Section of this Policy and the following exclusion:
> *ME#2. We do not cover any loss or expense related directly or
> indirectly to: *
> a. Your Medical Condition or any related condition if in the 180-day period immediately preceding Your Departure Date that condition has not been Stable and Controlled;
> ...



There are more exclusions to the policy, but this will illustrate the point that if you are TAKING ANY DRUGS or have been prescribed any drugs by a physcian (even if you decided not to
fill the prescription) BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL BEFORE ASSUMING YOU ARE COVERED 100% BY YOUR TRAVEL INSURANCE.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Talked to the couple I posted about and here is what they say.He had a stroke many years ago and the cause of his stroke was from a blood clot in a vein in the neck that went to his brain.He was so lucky they caught it early and treated him and he really had no side effects after couple month or so.Well they say that vein is connected to his heart so therefore he had a prior heart problem.His illness in florida was a virus that developed into pneumonia and he got the virus in a valve or lining around the heart.Not a doctor so trying to explain as best I can but that is the situation oh and the bill is $202578 TO DATE.May be more coming but they filed the appeal papers and will see what happens.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I got sick in Vegas in 2012 and we flew home not realizing how sick I was.Within 14 hours at home I was in diabetic shock and spent a week in hospital.We had no EXTRA insurance as I use to fly to Vegas for 5-6 days to play poker then come home other than what my visa card provides ,really feeling lucky I made it home then .If I even get a fever when away I will just book my flight home because I am sure I will have every condition on the list if they ever look at my accident and the hardware in my body lol


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Agree that you have to be extremely careful even if you've purchased health insurance. Insurance companies are in the business of refusing claims, not paying out every claim that comes their way.

I'm temporarily in the US right now, and even though I have extra health insurance, if I get seriously sick/injured the first thing I'll try to do is get home to Canada (where I'm still a resident). This conversation even came up when I visited a US doctor recently. She agreed with me that if anything serious happens, my best course of action is to get back to Canada ASAP.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> I got sick in Vegas in 2012 and we flew home not realizing how sick I was.Within 14 hours at home I was in diabetic shock and spent a week in hospital.We had no EXTRA insurance as I use to fly to Vegas for 5-6 days to play poker then come home other than what my visa card provides ,*really feeling lucky I made it home then *.If I even get a fever when away I will just book my flight home because I am sure I will have every condition on the list if they ever look at my accident and the hardware in my body lol


MY Gosh! Marina!..but you like to " live life on the edge" as they say. Good thing you made it home. Did you win anything at the Casinos? I can just imagine the hospital costs in Vegas (Baby). In a city where gambling is their main source of income and they are used to pampering the high rollers from other countries, I'm sure that the hotel staff have an arrangement with the private hospitals down there, to "take care of their clients". Any hospitals with arrangements with the big casinos will be more modest in their daily exorbitant charges. 

After all they want the "business" as they say. I've only been to Vegas once back in the early 90s on my way to visit a friend in AZ, and 2 days/3 nights was more than plenty for me. We watched the magic act at the Mirage with Seigfried & Roy...they had an elephant on stage that was having a hard time with it's act..(crossing it's knees if you know what I mean :biggrin We were sitting at a table next to the catwalk where they bring in the performers/animals..and when Siegfried realized what was about to happen, he hurriedly tried to lead the elephant off stage..but unfortunately..it was too late! A deluge of elephant dung came down following the elephant and splashed some of the patrons sitting to close to the stage.

We laughed for years about that..somebody even mentioned it was "good luck sign" and we should have tried our hands at the Blackjack tables, which I like to play....reminds me of
the Mary Poppins song "Chim-chimney-chim-chim-cheroo--good luck will rub off when an elephant dumps on you" . :surprise:

I have always bought travel insurance when visiting the US, even for a day driving into NY state, in the event of a traffic accident, fortunately, I have never had the misfortune of
having to collect on the insurance..so I guess..I am the type of customer that these insurance scam artists like to sell policies to.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I play poker in Vegas and some blackjack but not so much the casino stuff.I did win about $13000 on that trip and stayed for free a week and had some great meals too.My husband figured a trick to max his comps ,apparently he was depositing 100 in a slot game would cash it out at $130+ and put 100 in , the comps are granted on the deposits plus wagers so while I was playing poker he managed to get up to gold status lol.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

carverman said:


> Your Medical Condition or any related condition if in the 180-day period immediately preceding Your Departure Date that condition has not been Stable and Controlled;


this is what happens, people read "stable and controlled" and think "oh yeah, i feel good, no change in meds" and go ahead and just say "yeah, everything is good"

what is "stable" ? ... what is "controlled" ?

it certainly is always worth a trip to your doctor (assuming you have one that knows your medical history well enough to answer) and pay them to help you fill out the form or clarify any confusing areas

as i always say, usually (but not always thankfully) he who the most lawyers and deepest pockets wins ... think ... the insurance company

yes, always get home if possible

though as we have said earlier, a 200K bill might be settled for 50K

hospitals in the usa and canada have no choice (usually) but to treat really sick people when they come in
they are used to sending people huge bills that the recipient has no means of paying (or would effectively wipe out their life savings which is almost the same thing)


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fatcat said:


> t
> 
> though as we have said earlier, a 200K bill might be settled for 50K
> 
> ...


Well that's why we as travellers take out travel insurance...which may also scam us.

Here is an idea of what it costs per day to be in a hospital bed in the 50 states.
Note that in the US there are 3 classifications of hospitals: State/local hospitals
Non-profit
and of course FOR PROFIT the largest number will be in this category.

http://www.beckershospitalreview.co...r-inpatient-day-across-50-states-in-2010.html

Still doesn't explain a $100K hospital bill like that Alberta couple got. Lets see now..at $3,170 per day FOR 5 days in the FOR-PROFIT hospital..it's still only $15,850.
but I suppose the rest of the $16,830 they charged per day must have been for:
the $1000 bandages and $2000 IV, $300 a day for breakfast/lunch and dinner and $100 a day colour tv must add up the rest?:biggrin:
Still doesn't add up...still only $17,000 
so even if those were the riduculous charges..$32,850..the rest of the money ($67,150) was charged by the doctors and diagnostic services, I guess.
So if you extrapolate that to an hourly charge...that 5 day (120hrs) stay averaged out to $534.58 US per hour. For a few dollars more, you can fly home to get treatment
here in Canada..alhough to be fair..they were travelling in a motor home, so that would be 5 days on the road back to Canada from Arizona. 
What a SCAM!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Well that's why we as travellers take out travel insurance...which may also scam us. ...
> 
> Still doesn't explain a $100K hospital bill like that Alberta couple got. Lets see now..at $3,170 per day FOR 5 days in the FOR-PROFIT hospital..it's still only $15,850.
> but I suppose the rest of the $16,830 they charged per day must have been for:
> ...


 ... no matter how you slice and dice it, it's a scam. 

Side note* (joke): *So travellers to the States will need "the Mary Poppins song "Chim-chimney-chim-chim-cheroo--good luck will rub off when an elephant <<doo-doo>> dumps on you" not to sick first?!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

There is indeed a word that describes the US travel insurance scam - _supercalifragilisticexpialidocious_


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## Jaberwock (Aug 22, 2012)

Credit union platinum Mastercard covers up to 30 days out of the country, up to age 75


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... no matter how you slice and dice it, it's a scam.


Well here's the Alberta couples experience in a nutshell...

I


> n December 2012, Donna McShane developed a severe cough while the couple was staying in Arizona.
> 
> A local doctor recommended she be admitted to hospital pending approval from the McShanes’ insurer.
> 
> ...


Ok, we have all developed some kind of bronchitis at one point or other...a severe cough.
They decide to go to a local doctor to get some meds and some kind of prognosis on her cough.
The local doctor finds out they have insurance and recommends.."this thing you have is very serious, I strongly recommend you go to THIS hospital for further analysis...you shouldn't be
travelling in your condition..I'll order an ambulance for you...there is a friend that runs the ambulance service here in town."
Alberta couple growing up in environment where medical problems are covered by the province and so are the doctors take his advice and are driven in with sirens awailing and lights aflashing.

Emerg staff at WARMC rush out with a gurney and wheel her into admitting, When WARMC find out they are visitors and not US citizens and have insurance...well that's their lucky jackpot
and they decide to admit her for further testing and observation. They call in their doctors who own the hospital.
First doctor (heart and lung specialist).."cough please!"...hack.hack..hack...."hmmm this is not good...I sense (mutters some strange medical term for desert fever contracted while in their
motor home)...and I will need to call another specialist for you..an virologist to determine your condition...in the meantime, you better stay with us for overnight observation...Nurse..
take Mrs () into emerg and put her in an oxygen tent in a isolation ward...this is getting pretty bad..hack! hack! hack!. I will consult with my collegues to determine what we need to do next?
Xray scans, CAT scans, biopsys, blood/uriine tests, liver and kidney fucnctions, heart monitoring,,,(Mrs () trussed up in a isolation ward bed with tubes and wires coming off here.

Rest comfortably Mrs (), we will consult and come back with a diagnosis..in.....5 days..we have a Golf tournament we have to attend in California, but we will be back..don't you worry.

5 days past..doctors arrive back after playing golf and entertaining wives and friends,,,

"What shall we tell Mrs()..we don't know what it is..and we haven't had time to study the results..

"Ah just tell her it could be "tubercolosis" and we will have to keep her in for at least a month..that should pay for our golf tournament and pay off our Pick one...<Porshes, Cadillacs, Mercedes).

Meanwhile after 5 days...Mrs () is feeling well enough to leave the hospital. "Goodbye Mrs ()..hope you had a nice stay with us..we will send in the bill to your insurance..have a good day!"


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... no matter how you slice and dice it, it's a scam.


Well here's the Alberta couples experience in a nutshell...



I


> n December 2012, Donna McShane developed a severe cough while the couple was staying in Arizona.
> 
> *A local doctor recommended she be admitted to hospital pending approval from the McShanes’ insurer.*
> 
> ...


Ok, we have all developed some kind of bronchitis at one point or other...a severe cough.koff!..koff!..hack!..koff!

So they decide to go to a local doctor to get some meds and some kind of prognosis on her cough.

The local doctor finds out they have insurance and recommends.."this thing you have is very serious, I strongly recommend you go to THIS hospital for further analysis...you shouldn't be
travelling in your condition..I'll order an ambulance for you...there is a friend that runs the ambulance service here in town."

Alberta couple growing up in environment, where medical problems are covered by the province and so are the doctors, take his advice and are driven into the hospital emerg with sirens awailing and lights aflashing.

Emerg staff at WARMC rush out with a gurney and wheel her into admitting, When WARMC find out they are visitors and not US citizens and have insurance...*well that's their lucky jackpot*
and they decide to admit her for further testing and observation. They call in their doctors who own the hospital.

First doctor (heart and lung specialist).."cough please!"...hack.hack..hack...."hmmm this is not good...I sense (mutters some strange medical term for desert fever contracted while in their
motor home)...and I will need to call another specialist for you....an viro-ologist to determine your condition...in the meantime, you better stay with us for overnight observation...Nurse..
take Mrs () into emerg and put her in an oxygen tent in a isolation ward...this is getting pretty bad.. hack! hack! hack!. I will consult with my collegues to determine what we need to do next.
*Xray scans, CAT scans, biopsys, blood/uriine tests, liver and kidney fucnctions, heart monitoring,,,(Mrs () trussed up in a isolation ward bed with tubes and wires coming off her.*

"Rest comfortably Mrs (), we will consult and come back with a diagnosis for you..in about.....5 days..we have a Golf tournament we have to attend in California, but we will be back..don't you worry."

*5 days past..doctors arrive back after playing golf and entertaining wives and friends,,,
*
"What shall we tell Mrs()..we don't know what it is..and we haven't had time to study the results..

"Ah just tell her it could be "tubercolosis" and we will have to keep her in for at least a month..that should pay for our golf tournament and pay off our Pick one...<Porshes, Cadillacs, Mercedes)."

Meanwhile after 5 days...Mrs () is feeling well enough to leave the hospital. "Goodbye Mrs ()..hope you had a nice stay with us..we will send in the bill to your insurance..have a good day!"


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

haroldcrump said:


> there is indeed a word that describes the us travel insurance scam - *supercalifragilisticexpialidocious*


 ... L ... O ... L ...!!!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Well here's the Alberta couples experience in a nutshell...
> 
> The local doctor finds out they have insurance and recommends.."this thing you have is very serious, I strongly recommend you go to THIS hospital for further analysis...you shouldn't be travelling in your condition..I'll order an ambulance for you...there is a friend that runs the ambulance service here in town." ...Emerg staff at WARMC rush out with a gurney and wheel her into admitting, When WARMC find out they are visitors and not US citizens and have insurance...*well that's their lucky jackpot*
> and they decide to admit her for further testing and observation. They call in their doctors who own the hospital.
> ...


 ... that's why it's so lucrative to be an MD (particularly a specialist) in the US. 

Actually, citizens with "Medicaid" are considered worthwhile "ca$h-cow$" by health practitioners In the USA - they're not frowned on at all.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i believe that they have already erected barriers between doctors sending patients for diagnostic tests to facilities that the doctors have a monetary interest in
hospitals should certainly be on the list of forbidden referrals

but you have to understand, many of the most important and complex bills in the us congress are actually written by lobbyists
the hospital and doctor lobbies are very, very big and influential

when the doc said "this is serious", she should have gotten her iphone out of her pocket and dialed the airlines


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> Actually, citizens with "Medicaid" are considered worthwhile "ca$h-cow$" by health practitioners In the USA - they're not frowned on at all.


Similarly, citizens in CAN with "private health insurance" are often regarded as "worthwhile - cash cows" by a variety of practitioners in Canada.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My understanding is that doctors' incomes are dropping in the US.

The health system has bled the population dry. Many US companies have been dropping, or reducing their insurance plans and as a result fewer people can afford to pay for expensive medical procedures.

I went to a clinic here in the US, it was a Friday afternoon after work... and the giant clinic (4 floors) was _empty_. Without insurance paying these exorbitant bills, there isn't much money to make. Clinics and hospitals have to mark down service costs by 50% or more when billing regular people with regular means to pay.

Same with dentists. Incomes are dropping, and there are lots of new dentist grads finding it's not the wintergreen-fresh business they thought it would be! Again it's because there's less insurance around willing to pay those sky high bills.

Remember, US unemployment is quite high and companies are reducing their benefits. No regular person has the money to pay for these procedures.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> The health system has bled the population dry. Many US companies have been dropping, or reducing their insurance plans and as a result fewer people can afford to pay for expensive medical procedures.


of course, the system is too expensive ...it is selling a product nobody can afford any longer .... it's all predictable if you spend any time in the system

the average canadian major city will have just enough mri's and cat scanners to get by

the average major american city will have far more mri's and cat scanners than they need because you will have for-profit hospitals competing for patients

you would think with hospitals competing for patients that prices would respond to the market but they don't because the system is rigged, patients can't understand the pricing and it is paid by the insurers who are in bed with the hospitals


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