# Car maintenance



## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

Hey,

I was just wondering how many CMF members do there own car maintenance? 

For me I do almost all of my own car maintenance as I have found this has almost always been the most expensive part of owning a car. This was something I started to learn when I was about 19 as I took my truck in at the time for some simple work and was charged $800.00. One of the cool things about working on my own car is that I feel I have in some way built a relationship with it.

One thing I do that keeps me motivated to work on my own car and keep it in good shape is I keep a maintenance log. I write down the parts and how long the dealership estimates it would take to do that work. I bought my current car in on Mary 2013, and I have put just under $700.00 of parts into it, and saved just under $2,000.00 in labor.
(Although I paid much less for them as my girlfriend works at Honda, so I pay cost +10%, total cost of parts $450 )

While my parts list for this year is high, I am a big believer in preventive maintenance, so I changed out a lot of parts that were not broken with new parts. Reason for this is once some of those parts do go, it costs a lot more due to the damages. 

So back to my original question, do you do your own maintenance on your car? why and why not?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I maintain all my vehicles myself except when requiring really specialized tools that I can't easily work around. My last preventive work was to replace both LCA bushings and ball joints along with new springs as one had a piece broken off the end. Next job will be to replace the front brake lines (caliper to metal tubing) and do a full brake fluid change, probably next month. You definitely save lots of cash doing it yourself labour wise and even more if you can purchase the parts online or on sale locally. The other thing about doing it yourself is you know the job was done right and exactly what parts were changed. My daily driver is now 15 years old and riding great, hopefully it'll will last another 5-10 years before I purchase something new again.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

I also do most things not requiring special tools or specialty knowledge not available on a DIY online. I last replaced the rotors and brake pads on our vehicles, along with brake flushes. They don't last here in salt road/air country on the East Coast. It takes me 5x as long as a shop would to do the work but I'm not in a hurry and try make sure its done right with more care than a typical shop would. It definitely saves a lot on labour and you can also shop around for good prices on parts. 

I've got more of this work ahead of me on another vehicle and on my motorcycle when we return home from Texas.


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

I think at this point I can confidently say, that a my Haynes car repair manual is the best investment I have ever bought.
I think I paid $24.00 for it, and it has saved me thousands.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

I used to do all my own maintenance; but that was in the day that you could remove a carburetor, rebuild it, and have it back on the car running in less time than it would take to drive to the closest garage. :biggrin:

Now, I'll do oil changes, air filter, top up fluid levels, and swap the summer/winter wheels myself; but beyond that, I'll leave it to someone who does that for a living - especially in winter when my fingers are frozen and I'm on my back under the car getting dripped on with salty slush. In those situations, I've even let the local garage do the oil changes / top-ups if they have a "promotion".


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## fcyloh82 (Dec 2, 2013)

I also maintain my vehicles (have been doing so for 15 years), now more so to save a bit of money, whereas before, it was more of a hobby.

Proper maintenance of a vehicle may seem daunting, but it's actually not that bad at all. Manufacturers have specifications (located in the owner's manual) for recommended maintenance interval - I follow the recommendations quite strictly with a few exceptions. I think the 4 main types of maintenance I do are:
1. Change fluids
2. Replace parts that designed to wear out (i.e., brake pads, rotors)
3. Grease/lubricate
4. Replace dirty components

The challenging part of the maintaining your own vehicle is the ability to spot components that are about to fail or require replacement in the immediate term. But usually, they're quite easy to understand once one has had the chance to experience so. 

In terms of saving money, yeah, it's HUGE. Typical car owners don't really realize this, but maintenance costs can be slashed by 50% or more.


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

I follow the recommended change intervals for everything except oil.
I change my oil every 10,000 km. When I owned my BMW the recommended oil change interval was every 15,000 miles. Which seemed like far too long, so I would do it every 12,500 km.

I have always used synthetic oil and I have found that stretching it to 10,000 on my Honda has worked well for me. The more I have looked into it, it seems that most oil synthetic oil on the market is pretty good. Generally its the filters that get clogged up long before the oil is no longer able to protect the engine.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

RBull said:


> I've got more of this work ahead of me on another vehicle and on my motorcycle when we return home from Texas.


Yup, then there is the maintenance on the motorcycles ... I enjoy doing that more than the cars usually, generally much easier.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Fraser19 said:


> I follow the recommended change intervals for everything except oil.
> I change my oil every 10,000 km. When I owned my BMW the recommended oil change interval was every 15,000 miles. Which seemed like far too long, so I would do it every 12,500 km.


Normally I don't like to bring up the topic of oil BUT ... If you really want to know if your OCI is too short or long for your vehicle and how you drive get it tested once, it's much better than just guessing.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

I don't do any but the most basic maintenance on our vehicles. In my experience, maintenance costs are significantly less than purchase price, insurance, fuel and tires. Perhaps that's just my experience. I've never owned a car beyond 200k and always reliable entry level Japanese models.


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## fcyloh82 (Dec 2, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Normally I don't like to bring up the topic of oil BUT ... If you really want to know if your OCI is too short or long for your vehicle and how you drive get it tested once, it's much better than just guessing.


If BMW recommends an interval for your type of driving and you're using their oil and filter, I think it's safe to assume that their interval length is not too short. 

Where do you send your oil analysis to?


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## Fraser19 (Aug 23, 2013)

I general join a forum for whatever it is that I own.
There were a few guys that sent there oil out for an analysis and most of them found that 15,000 miles was pushing the limit's. 
While the oil was starting to deteriorate by 15,000 miles, generally the filters were not capable of providing nearly as good filtering abilities. 

This is the good thing about the internet and forums, rarely do I need to do something like sending out oil for an analysis, usually there are several reports done from which I can draw a conclusion. I have done the same thing on my Honda forum, which is why I have decided to use 10,000 km intervals. 

Also I recall MoneySense put out an article about six months ago where they did a review of automobile fluids and how most of the intervals can be stretched out. Although it was not nearly comprehensive enough to satisfy all my questions. Reality is things like transmission fluid and differential fluid don't need to be changed very often so I do those at the recommended intervals.


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

We have never done our own maintenance. 

We just bought a 2015 Honda CRV, trading in our 2008 Honda Civic. We bought the Civic brand new and had every maintenance need done at our local dealership. When we went in to talk about purchasing a new vehicle, we were able to say that their dealership had only been the one to ever touch the car and they would have every scheduled visit in their records. We serviced that thing religiously and when it came time to trade-in, it paid off – The dealership knew us by name and knew we were loyal customers who would continue to get the next car serviced there. My husband bartered for a cash discount, 4 free oil changes and a set of free floor mats. Coupled with the trade-in value, we severed almost $9,000 off the purchase price of the car. 

We have never had a problem with the Service Department at the dealership. The Civic ran 7 years with 187,000 kms by the end, with no issues. We were thinking about driving it until it died, but when my husband took a job out of town, we wanted something with 4-wheel drive, so decided on the CRV. Both the Civic and our new car has a system that tells you what needs maintenance (‘A’ was an oil change, ‘A1’ was oil change and brake fluid change, etc.) We trust the dealership’s work and are willing to pay extra to not have spent the time doing it ourselves. 

I definitely do not judge those who do their own work, though. Service costs can add up and if you have the time or enjoy doing it yourself, it makes sense to go that route.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

fcyloh82 said:


> If BMW recommends an interval for your type of driving and you're using their oil and filter, I think it's safe to assume that their interval length is not too short.
> 
> Where do you send your oil analysis to?


Last time it was done (a number of years back) was by Toromont Cat for $20 I believe.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Fraser19 said:


> I general join a forum for whatever it is that I own.
> There were a few guys that sent there oil out for an analysis and most of them found that 15,000 miles was pushing the limit's.
> While the oil was starting to deteriorate by 15,000 miles, generally the filters were not capable of providing nearly as good filtering abilities.
> 
> This is the good thing about the internet and forums, rarely do I need to do something like sending out oil for an analysis, usually there are several reports done from which I can draw a conclusion. I have done the same thing on my Honda forum, which is why I have decided to use 10,000 km intervals.


It can give you a good idea looking at other peoples UOA reports, not as good as doing your own but likely close enough. Also the results are kind of "open to interpretation" as to say when the oil is spent. Of course if you're under warranty this point is moot as you have to follow their schedule anyways. A few 1000 kms one way or another isn't going to change your cost much so just enjoy the savings of doing it yourself.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I do all the basic maintenance myself and some common DIY fixes that are well documented online. I can't believe the prices dealers are charging for maintenance that I've done. If you can't DIY I would highly recommend finding a good independent mechanic.. Of course if you go that route, you still should know what parts to use (many dealer parts are rebranded) Some things nobody will fix for a reasonable price though. I needed a DRL module for a Honda to pass inspection and it was a $500 part plus labour. It took about 10 mins to remove and another 10 mins to repair with a soldering iron. No mechanic in NA will do these kinds of repairs anymore. They replace.

I keep digital records and receipts for maintenance I've done. It's a myth that doing your own maintenance voids the warranty

Changing the fluids can depend on a number of things besides the recommended mileage. You should consider time, workload, environment (Canadian temps and roads are pretty extreme) I change them more based on workload and time, because I don't actually do a lot of kms (short commute by motorbike for 6 months) Something interesting is that "full synthetic" oil marketed in NA is most often just highly refined mineral oil (not synthetic at all!).. just like "100% all natural" labels on food in NA is anything but. You can still get real group IV PAO "real synthetic oil" for about the same price if you know which is which but chances are you've been buying group III "full synthetic" oil.

Hint: You can find real synthetic PAO group IV Castrol in Canadian Tire. Just look for "Made in Germany" on the back (usually labeled as Euro formula or something)


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## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

I wouldn't drive any car that *I* worked on! And neither should YOU!

The only things I've done are really basic - replace a battery, headlights and fix a broken power window button (popped up the cap, put some folded aluminum foil down to make good contact again, voila!). Oh, and I've even replaced wiper blades.

Dirty Harry said it best when he growled, "A man's got to know his limitations."


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Ok, I'll qualify my previous response to mechanical work. I'll replace bulbs, fix scratches, pop out dings and have replaced side mirrors in the past. It is ridiculous that one can get a remote side mirror for $300 on line and replace it in less than an hour or let the dealer replace it for $1200+HST! Heaven forbid one ever has to assemble a car from its component parts. The mark up on mostly plastic parts is insane.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

janus10 said:


> I wouldn't drive any car that *I* worked on! And neither should YOU!


And you should never operate something you don't understand.

It's a mixed bag for me. I own a classic and do EVERYTHING on it. My daily drivers I do the general maintenance plus a little bit as time allows. Brakes, little front end work, starters, alternators, brake lines, gas lines.

The thing with modern cars is that if you do the basics, rarely do you need to do much more. If I don't think I can have it fixed in a weekend I don't do it on my daily drivers. The wife and I need to get to work. The cars can't be down for long. The old car can sit for months if the need be.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Doing it yourself will usually save you money on labour but it usually takes a lot longer to do yourself and my problem is that I tend to get a little fanatical.

For example, a few years ago I picked up a cheap 15Hp Evinrude outboard made in 1976, for $50. It wasn't working so I figured the parts were worth more then $50 so I bought it. Upon analysis, I diagnosed the problem to corrosion on the ignition points, so I filed and cleaned them up. If all I did was that, it would probably have worked fine, but being a little fanatical, I had that thing almost broken down to the last bolt. No matter how hard you try to save money, when you add another $8 for a gasket here, and $17 dollars for a t-stat there, etc., etc,. etc.,, by the time I was done, I had another $500 in that motor. Now it purrs like a kitten and I don't really regret it, but I could have taken it to a mechanic and he would have cleaned up the points, charged me $100 and I would probably have a fine running motor and be $400 richer...and have a lot of my time back. A '76 15Hp outboard working can probably be bought on ebay for a little over $550.

For me it is more of a hobby then a money saver. If it is all about money saving, I am not so convinced. Plus, on today's cars there are more and more things that an average DIY mechanic just cannot do.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

cainvest said:


> Yup, then there is the maintenance on the motorcycles ... I enjoy doing that more than the cars usually, generally much easier.


Absolutely. Have to change the steering neck bearings which is going to be one of the more challenging things I've done.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I hear what you're saying. I have an old neglected carburetor motorbike that I keep for some reason even tough it's a hassle. Nowadays I'll sell things before they get that old and it seems like we both win (good shape with records for good price but just approaching that age where it won't be worth my time anymore) I definitely save money on maintenance but I also spend it or more on the hobby aspect.

When people say they don't have time though, I ask them how long it takes to drive to their mechanic and whether it takes them 6 trips (2 cars!) or they wait or what? I can change fluids or brake pads or tires etc in a matter of minutes if I want to. I have access to a lift but for anything basic it's faster to use my tools at home with a beer than to drive 10 mins to the lift and air tools. Anything beyond basic maintenance is probably a hobby though.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

RBull said:


> Absolutely. Have to change the steering neck bearings which is going to be one of the more challenging things I've done.


Ohhh, got the old "flat spot" or "notch" in the center of the steering? That job isn't too bad, only done one myself ... thought about changing out to a new tapered bearing kit but just stuck with the OEM instead.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

m3s said:


> I hear what you're saying. I have an old neglected carburetor motorbike that I keep for some reason even tough it's a hassle.


Carbs are ok, just don't ever let them sit with old fuel for long .... man I hate cleaning that mess up.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I do the following myself:
1) engine oil & filter (not Fram) regularly @ 5k;
2) transmission oil and filter every 80K, 
3) change diff fluid (RWD) and transfer case oil every 50K;
3) bleed and flush brake fluid every 2 years,
4) brakes at 100K and rotors if required, 
5) spark plugs at 150K, 
6) Serpentine belt at 100K, (and keep the old one as a spare)
7) Engine Air filter yearly and of course the infamous and dealer money maker "Cabin Air Filter"

These are all pretty easy to do and will save you money if you DIY too. But if you're not comfortable doing these things - then don't. Many people are DIY'ers and are more than competent to perform these "nuts and bolts" maintenance items. Youtube and vehicle forums are great sources of 'how to' and diagnostic information. Lots to learn from others. 

Dealers make lots of $$ on maintenance and repairs. I have an 07 Mustang which has a 2 piece spark plug that can break upon removal (poor design just Google "Ford broken spark plug"). Ford wanted $1200 to replace if they all broke - $600 if none broke. Ford actually designed a "Broken Spark Plug Removal Tool" if you can believe that and have a Technical Service Bulletin on how to remove and replace. I did it myself for about $250 - the cost of a newly designed 1 piece plug which doesn't break. I hate built in design flaws that I have to pay lots to fix. You'd think they'd could design things to last - not just to the end of the warranty period - but why would they? I change my oil more frequently than the manufacturer recommends - so the engine hopefully will last long past when the warranty ends. It's cheaper to change oil than to buy a new car.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

^ That sounds about right

I have a checklist and log that is pretty darn close to that. Although my tranny and LSDs all take Motul 300 so I do them at once. I imagine you inspect your brakes though because it really depends how/where you drive. The last time I went to the dealer was for a handful of oil filters and a cabin air filter haha.. in the past I've bought them online though (surprised no Canadian has really taken up selling parts online.. we seem to have a oligopoly of car part distributors like our telcos)

It's definitely true cars are designed for planned obsolescence today.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

1+ for DIY car maintenance - brakes, fluids, tires, filters, etc.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

just the easy stuff change summer/winter tires, replace burnt out light bulbs & fuses, reset engine light, top up fluids. Use to change own oil but to hard to get rid of used oil now


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I take my used oil to Canadian Tire or Walmart. A friend sometimes uses my old oil to run through his chainsaw.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Fraser19 said:


> So back to my original question, do you do your own maintenance on your car? why and why not?


I do all the family,neighbors and freinds

I have 37 years as a mechanic

Built a large 2 story garage for retirement,fully stocked

Can repair anything on wheels or tracks,have all the tools and diagnostic equipment to do so,I really enjoy repairing things and conversing with friends plus at time maybe a couple of pints ,nice to have a job and a hobby as One


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

uptoolate said:


> ... It is ridiculous that one can get a remote side mirror for $300 on line and replace it in less than an hour or let the dealer replace it for $1200+HST! ...


Never did get the dealer or mechanic quote after finding a YouTube video that showed it was reasonably easy so that I was willing to try the replacement myself.

Local auto parts supplier was saying it was a special order at $109 plus taxes for the mirror. Several online sites had it for $39 but after taxes, shipping etc, it was up to $59. Local wrecker took it off the car and sold it for me for $63 taxes everything in.

Thirty minutes later, it's all working and looking like nothing when it rolled off the car dealer's lot.


I should call and get a dealer quote to see how much they would have wanted for the part + labour.


Cheers


*PS*

Similar model of car where the brake light was burnt out, a neighbour paid $35 on top of regular oil change to get a new bulb put in. It cost me $6 for two bulbs and probably fifteen minutes combined to drive to get bulbs plus replace it. Spare bulb is in the glove box so it will faster next time.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

For those even semi inclined to DIY, Youtube is a great source for information. Local auto wreckers are a good place to find replacement parts too. Yes some can go to dealers, and sometimes that trip is warranted, but be prepared to bend over forward.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Beyond the local wrecker being cheaper than a new part and basically the same price as an online order (supporting local workers), two things appealed to me. 

The first was that the wrecker doesn't allow people into the yard so they pull off the part for the customer.

The second was that a co-worker lives a block from the wrecker so there really wasn't much extra driving needed. :biggrin:


Cheers


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wreckers are okay for some parts.......non mechanic/electrical and with easy access to them.

Parts from wreckers are old parts..........so replacing old mechanical or electrical parts with other old parts might not be a good idea.

The "guarantee" for wrecker parts is only to exchange the part for another. That isn't helpful if you spend a lot of time putting the part on and it doesn't function properly.

I had that happen with a used transmission. What a pain that was.........and had to pay the labor costs twice.

The last old car I tried to keep on the road, a 2002 Ford Taurus piece of junk, cost me enough to make 3 years of new car payments and it was still a piece of junk.

Finally got fed up and sent it where it belonged.............sold it to the wrecker for $125.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

Have you guys really got parts from a wrecker recently?
my experience locally in the last few years is that "wreckers" don't really want to deal with the public any more. Most around here just say "no got" to any inquiries from an individual not saying "from so and so garage" on the phone.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Question ... I have a heavy duty buffer polisher bought for use on the previous fiberglass boat ... I'm thinking a cordless buffer polisher would be ideal for the jeep. Either way, the torn rotator cuff says no more doing it by hand. Any recommendations?


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

rikk said:


> Question ... I have a heavy duty buffer polisher bought for use on the previous fiberglass boat ... I'm thinking a cordless buffer polisher would be ideal for the jeep. Either way, the torn rotator cuff says no more doing it by hand. Any recommendations?


The right products and a little elbow grease is all you need! Can you not use your other arm? If you use a high quality wax you don't have to work all that hard to get a really nice shine. I've had a lot of good results with Meguiars products (clay kit, ulimate liquid wax, color restor, scratch-X, etc). Their quick detailers and quick wax come in quite handy for between major detailing / waxing.

Personally I stay away from any electric buffers for my cars. I would be weary of heady duty buffer for use an any automobile. Mind you I have used an orbital low-med power buffer to polish my windshields in the past.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

hystat said:


> Have you guys really got parts from a wrecker recently?
> my experience locally in the last few years is that "wreckers" don't really want to deal with the public any more. Most around here just say "no got" to any inquiries from an individual not saying "from so and so garage" on the phone.


A lot of the wreckers around here pay $125 or less for the vehicle, take off a few parts if they are in good shape (tires and rims), empty out the gas tanks, and crush them.

It got to the point where liability insurance cost too much to have people wandering around their yard, and the cost of hiring guys to take parts off didn't make sense anymore. They basically crush them with the forklift trucks, pile them on a flatbed truck and send them to the big grinders in Hamilton.

It reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer had the idea for a pizzeria where customers made their own pizza. Jerry said "yea, that is a great idea to have customers stick their arms into a 600 degree oven"...........Same with giving guys a wrench and sending them out into the yard, with cars precariously piled on top of each other. We used to climb around and crawl around to get our parts.......and sometimes the vehicle would shift a little or someone would fall. It was really easy to be cut from a ragged piece of metal. It isn't surprising that insurance companies didn't want any part of that anymore. They were lawsuits waiting to happen.

We used to send steel parts to the same place and security went with the load, as it was all new parts that were discontinued and being scrapped. Originally the company just sent them down the highway, but the parts started showing up at flea markets, so they sent security to make sure they were actually scrapped out.

The security guys told me they watched the grinders turn whole cars into tiny bits and pieces.

Cities and municipalities don't want wrecker yards around anymore. They used to attract a lot of animal pests and compaints, and toxic contaminants were leaking all over.

I doubt a new wrecker could even get a business permit these days.


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## LBCfan (Jan 13, 2011)

rikk said:


> Question ... I have a heavy duty buffer polisher bought for use on the previous fiberglass boat ... I'm thinking a cordless buffer polisher would be ideal for the jeep. Either way, the torn rotator cuff says no more doing it by hand. Any recommendations?


Use it or lose it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> Wreckers are okay for some parts.......non mechanic/electrical and with easy access to them.
> 
> Parts from wreckers are old parts..........so replacing old mechanical or electrical parts with other old parts might not be a good idea.
> 
> The "guarantee" for wrecker parts is only to exchange the part for another. That isn't helpful if you spend a lot of time putting the part on and it doesn't function properly...


YMMV ... in my case, the motor is in a sealed compartment, the electrical connection is plug'n play and the start to finish replacement was quick.




hystat said:


> Have you guys really got parts from a wrecker recently?
> 
> my experience locally in the last few years is that "wreckers" don't really want to deal with the public any more. Most around here just say "no got" to any inquiries from an individual not saying "from so and so garage" on the phone.


Interesting ... all the wrecker web sites I looked at had a database saying where city the part would be coming from. I was surprised that when I called the one my co-worker recommended - the part was onsite.


Cheers


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

> Question ... I have a heavy duty buffer polisher bought for use on the previous fiberglass boat ... I'm thinking a cordless buffer polisher would be ideal for the jeep. Either way, the torn rotator cuff says no more doing it by hand. Any recommendations?





LBCfan said:


> Use it or lose it.


Getting off topic here, but not sure what you mean ... the MRI shows ligaments have torn away from the bone so that particular muscle just isn't attached anymore. I work out regularly, I'm working all the other shoulder muscles every which way to compensate. I'd been signed up for surgery but with the significant arthritis in the shoulder also shown by the MRI, decided I'll just make do. Hey, at 68 (not that that's old), but with other injuries starting to kick in, I'm assuming nothing heavier than a glass of Scotch from here on in ... 

Buffer/polisher ... I've always cleaned, waxed my vehicles by hand, was thinking a cordless buffer/polisher might be an idea ... was just asking if anyone used one, make, model.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

rikk said:


> Buffer/polisher ... I've always cleaned, waxed my vehicles by hand, was thinking a cordless buffer/polisher might be an idea ... was just asking if anyone used one, make, model.


I always wax/buff by hand but have wondered if a electric buffer would make quicker work of it. One thing I have learned is to put wax on in very thin coats as the rest is just removed/wasted when buffed out, also makes it easier to buff to a nice shine.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

rikk said:


> Getting off topic here, but not sure what you mean ... the MRI shows ligaments have torn away from the bone so that particular muscle just isn't attached anymore. I work out regularly, I'm working all the other shoulder muscles every which way to compensate. I'd been signed up for surgery but with the significant arthritis in the shoulder also shown by the MRI, decided I'll just make do. Hey, at 68 (not that that's old), but with other injuries starting to kick in, I'm assuming nothing heavier than a glass of Scotch from here on in ...


FYI - tendon's attach muscles to bone, so it would be a complete tear of a tendon not a ligament, in the case of a rotator cuff injury. The majority of tears involve a portion of the supraspinatus tendon, After surgery there's a high reccurence rate (re-tear) amongst people over a certain age (especially if they are active) so you often see people dealing with their injuries and recovery conservatively (rest, rehab, conditioning, activity modification, etc.).

Use is or lose it has some merit to it. However, you want to avoid activities that flare up the injury while doing your best to work around aggravating movements. Repetitive movemetns such as aggressive car polishing, prolonged raking of the lawn and snow shoveling aren't great movements for an injured shoulder, they will tend to cause more harm then good. Just my opinion based on experience.

Check some of the auto forums (detailing sections), I'm sure you'll be able to get some advice on different options for electric polishers.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

^ You are correct, tendon ... getting by though, I can now drink (lift) a pint of beer by lifting slightly differently ... good enough. Physio, the first step (then ultrasound, x-ray, MRI, family doctor, surgeon) was of course not helpful, as there is just no strength in a detached muscle. I can still carry heavy weights, do pushups, pullups, and pull as in row, no problem ... but enough about that ... as mentioned, declined the surgery, just wasn't willing to put up with the downtime, and I'm sure I would have done something to screw it up :cheerful:


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

rikk said:


> ^ You are correct, tendon ... getting by though, I can now drink (lift) a pint of beer by lifting slightly differently ... good enough. Physio, the first step (then ultrasound, x-ray, MRI, family doctor, surgeon) was of course not helpful, as there is just no strength in a detached muscle. I can still carry heavy weights, do pushups, pullups, and pull as in row, no problem ... but enough about that ... as mentioned, declined the surgery, just wasn't willing to put up with the downtime, and I'm sure I would have done something to screw it up :cheerful:


The other little muscles will eventually compensate for the weakness and pick up some of the slack! It just takes a lot of time and a little patience. Never completely the same but as you've noticed, function does return.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Buffer/polisher ... going with the Wen corded, it's on the way ... http://www.amazon.ca/10PMC-10-Inch-...TF8&qid=1429624537&sr=8-2&keywords=wen+buffer


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Best wishes with your new buffer. If that one doesn't work out this is the one most serious home detailers use. I've had mine for about 11 years and used it professionally for several of those. 

http://www.amazon.ca/PORTER-CABLE-7...0051337&sr=8-1&keywords=porter+cable+polisher


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

^ Thanks for the info ... that one looks much like the one I still have for the fiberglass boat, since sold. Maybe it's a bit lighter duty ... the one I have is a 2-speed, after using it on the boat I thought it might be too heavy duty for my delicate  jeep ... or could be it's just me ... thanks again :encouragement:


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^You're welcome. I was away so didn't see the thread or could have helped you sooner. 

The PC 7424 is the classic for many professionals and serious DIY folks. The wide variable speed range on the PC is great. You can even use it on the lowest speed to apply a thin coat of wax or sealant. Are you doing a 1 step or a multi step polish, with different compounds and different pads? Or are you just applying a finish coat?


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Sounds like you've got a base of experience and are taking nice care of the jeep. Basically its about using the right pad and the right polish (assuming your machine will do the job) so that you heat up and remove a bit of the clear coat and then likely polish with a softer pad and lighter compound to remove any haze, finishing with your final coat of sealant or wax. (I apologize if you already know this.)

Here are 2 places to start if you want to learn some more. I know both people and they do fantastic work. The first link is a great link for step by step detailing info. The second one is a good Canadian detailing forum to view and ask questions, moderated by a friend of mine. Good luck.

http://g35driver.com/forums/care-detailing/141057-detailing-caring-your-ride.html

http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=66488.0


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

^ Thanks very much ... all information is appreciated. I run my vehicles into the ground (well ok, not the boats where maintenance helps a lot with the resale) ... a little preventive maintenance goes a long, long way ... enjoy the day!!!

Those pics (deleted) make it look like the jeep never gets muddy ... must confess, it's more muddy than not ... cleans up nice though :listening_headphone


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^You're welcome.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

DIY car maintenance is something I'm just getting into now. I took my vehicle in for regular maintenance and was quoted a price for "suggested" maintenance that came in at about 50% of the value of the car itself. Needless to say I declined and got a second opinion. I did get some work done but only the stuff that was actually needed. In the future I'm hoping to do at least some of the basics myself so that I don't have to pay crazy high prices from the dealer


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## noobs (Sep 27, 2015)

*223*

I usually do my brakes, rotors as well as suspensions. (except that one time where the bolts were totally stripped, I took it to a garage)
I also do all fluids except (wait for it) oil change and bleeding brake lines because I hate making a mess. I know I can spend 2 hours covered in dirty grease but for some reason I hate flowing liquids all over my hands or garage floor haha


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

RBull I was trying to get into the paint correction business. I did a black Honda Accord for a used car dealership took slightly over 2 hours to wash & do a 6 step process on outside painted metal with one step process on the plastic bumpers.

The dealer paid me $150 for the job & was very happy with the work. He then had me do an SUV which he said would pay me a little more for. Part way through the second step process my buffer died (needed new brushes). I then did the other steps by hand & told the dealer to pay me whatever he wanted to since I never put out the best product. He paid 100 dollars for about 2 hours work. The dealer now wants to see if the product will last on the cars.

They did mention they were very happy with the results were thinking of getting whole inventory done but kinda wondered if product was a cover up & would not last. As well with winter coming snow would be on cars. I was thinking of doing a free be for the head guy so come spring he could see his car still looked good. 

I was thinking of hiring someone to help me & give them $50 a car for washing & putting on compound on paint while I follow behind with buffer to cut my time down to about an hour a car or should I just use his detailers charge him between $87 & $100 a car & do a car in under an hour & it would save the dealer some money.

I had all my products that I used tapped up so no one could see the products I was using Because other wise the dealer could do it themselves. Which is the best way to go hire someone or get the detailers that work for the dealer to help me. I don't want the dealership to be able to get one of their guys to take over my job. If I remove the labels off the compounds & just mark the bottles in code I kinda don't think they would figure it out. What is your thoughts.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Winterized the car and house today as I'm heading out on a trip soon. About as far as the oies blanches snow geese are preparing to fly except in the opposite direction..

Motor oil - infamous "German Castrol" Syntec 0W30 on sale now $8/L at Crappy Tire. This is real group IV synthetic, whereas most "full synthetic" in NA is actually a marketing scam (only the Euro formula is true group IV)
Oil filter - $8 from Subaru and that's about the same as anywhere else as far as I can tell
Air cabin filter - $44 from Subaru.. I'll just buy this online next time like I do most things. Took 5 mins to change and watch a youtube DIY
Coolant - Had the dealer test it for winter temps while buying the filters..
PCV valve - $17 from Subaru. I could clean it, but for $17 why not change it? They told me it was a 30 min job and that I didn't need new clips. Man those little clips are hard to get back on.. maybe 1 hr but I had to walk away for awhile
Winter tires - No cost. Took a leisure 30 mins or so to change, and I had to jack the car up anyways to change the oil filter
Battery - (changed it a month ago when it died) $90 at Costco with a crazy 100 month warranty.. can't beat that
Winter kit - sand, shovel, washer fluid, gloves, blanket, toque

I'm hoping the new PCV will reduce my oil consumption (turbo'd Subarus are expected to burn some oil) If not I'll have to increase the viscosity of the oil. Engine is warrantied for 5 years/100k kms presently at 3 yrs/40k kms


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

lonewolf said:


> RBull I was trying to get into the paint correction business. I did a black Honda Accord for a used car dealership took slightly over 2 hours to wash & do a 6 step process on outside painted metal with one step process on the plastic bumpers.
> 
> The dealer paid me $150 for the job & was very happy with the work. He then had me do an SUV which he said would pay me a little more for. Part way through the second step process my buffer died (needed new brushes). I then did the other steps by hand & told the dealer to pay me whatever he wanted to since I never put out the best product. He paid 100 dollars for about 2 hours work. The dealer now wants to see if the product will last on the cars.
> 
> ...


I missed this post until now. Sounds like you're being very resourceful and smart with not sharing your product info. 

I'm not sure what you mean by a 6 step and how this would take only 2 hours a car. I normally would only do a 1 step on a dealer car and for a friend or my own car a 3 step polish plus application of sealant.

Doing a freebe for the head guy is smart, but have your pricing clear in your head first so you don't get bamboozled by a guy like that trying to grind you down. And if you have confidence in your product. Give yourself some pricing room based on volume rather than just a per car rate- and some exceptions to be agreed on with bad cars, dark colours etc. Also if you hire someone make sure they are very good and do quality control yourself since its your reputation. Paying them a flat rate per car is going to lead to cutting corners otherwise.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

m3s said:


> Winterized the car and house today as I'm heading out on a trip soon. About as far as the oies blanches snow geese are preparing to fly except in the opposite direction..
> 
> Motor oil - infamous "German Castrol" Syntec 0W30 on sale now $8/L at Crappy Tire. This is real group IV synthetic, whereas most "full synthetic" in NA is actually a marketing scam (only the Euro formula is true group IV)
> Oil filter - $8 from Subaru and that's about the same as anywhere else as far as I can tell
> ...



Good job M3S. Another 3-4 weeks and it will be time to do the car winterizing here too. I like to read another person that knows about the German Castrol- real stuff. I use it in my snowblower but that's it. 

We bought one of those batteries last year for my wife's Mazda. 

Have a good trip.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I usually keep my summers on until mid-Nov. Some years I held off longer and got caught in the first snow. It's already dropping below 7 here regularly, yesterday I saw 5 on a sunny afternoon...

I was hesitant to put a Kirkland battery in my engine bay, but it looks like any other battery and it works. For the oil I might switch to Motul 8100 X-Clean 5w40 (also true group IV, but not found at Crappy Tire)


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

This year we'll switch out the all seasons earlier since we'll be away soon, and everything will be good to go for when we return. We're still in double digit highs but saw 5 degrees last night (lowest yet).

Ditto on the Kirkland but the specs, warranty, price won out. 

The STI must be a fun ride. 

For the BMW I use Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Oil. I have read that this BMW Approved product is ester-based (it's a direct competitor to ELF and Motul ester racing oils) while the non-approved formulations are PAO based. I think this means its a group 5. I'm sure you're very familiar with it.

BTW, nice picture. I meant to comment before.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Yup, I don't usually buy overpriced manufacture recommended oil. But I did for the M, as did my German indie mechanic who specialized on M's and Alpina's. Both the M was and my GS is amazingly well dialed in and refined for the real world. For a non-sports car it doesn't really matter what oil you use so long as you change it imo, but those engines have tight tolerances and using the recommended oil does matter.

The STi is like the anti-thesis of an ///M. It's not refined or smooth or understated in any way.. and it needs a lot of work to enjoy its true potential. Once I'm confident the engine will not explode.. I'll get it to stage 2 or 3. The DCCD is a hoot in the snow though.. in Auto- it biases RWD when you steer to induce oversteer, then FWD when you counter-steer, and finally 50-50 torque split when you straighten out  Auto+ biases to FWD for control.. boring!

The traction control is actually good too. Many think that pushing it once deactivates it, but it will still intervene if you really lose control. If you hold it awhile it does completely deactivate.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, proper oil in designated cars needing it. $130 to change oil in the M but once a year with few miles driven is fine. Out DD's get regular dino and more basic but decent filters. 

I can see the STI although not refined will give you plenty of smiles and entertainment. And with more potential you allude to....
Not sure what your GS is...

Neither of my cars are refined or smooth. Z4M is rough, noisy (although my aftermarket cans & suspension mods cause some of this) but fun on the twisties and at the track the couple of times I had it out. The Hyundai Tucson AWD has the opposite kind of drive system your Subie does-simple, crude and somewhat ineffective but it gets me around-fun NOPE. 

The best AWD I had was an '08 Infiniti X with the Attessa system. 90/10r/f bias splitting up to 50/50 IIRC and locking front diff . The traction control was way too invasive but could defeat much of it with switch but no way I knew of to completely off. Probably a good idea for most people including me with less than professional driving skills. 

Although I did have fun in snow with a Jeep Grand Cherokee I owned in early 2000's with the Quadra II drive -locking front & rear diffs. -supposedly would send up to 100% power to any one wheel although my experiments didn't support this.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I change oil when needed as time or mileage come first some times once a year


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Here is an interesting link to some oil filter testing. I usually use Wix filters.
http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

2005 jeep liberty, front wheel bearings were getting noisy at 180K ... replaced with Timken bearings/assemblies ... probably overkill since I'm only expecting to get another 300-400K out of the vehicle :eagerness:

And fwiw, I order parts from these guys ... http://www.thewrenchmonkey.ca/ ... no problems so far, I even screwed up my address once, the parts were shipped back to them, they reshipped for free as advertised.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

My experience trolling the dealer lately.. it's even worse than I imagined!

I bought the PCV valve from them ($17) awhile ago and changed it myself, but after digging into the maintenance book I noticed a few things that _maybe_ I should have the dealer do. Since the PCV valve was scheduled to be inspected just before I noticed it failed and my engine is still under warranty, figured I would let them do these few things (to maintain some kind of relationship for warranty?) I also wanted the $12 oem touch up paint

It's the electronics and the emissions things that cause DIYers the most trouble.. such as my faulty $17 PCV valve that caused oil to get sucked into the intercooler. So I gave them a small list of regularly scheduled preventative maint from their own book: inspect emissions, clean fuel injectors *with Terra Clean?*, inspect drive belt, inspect steering/suspension, inspect coolant (I knew the coolant was slightly low and it's "special" blue Subaru coolant)

So what was the result? They kept the car from 1-5pm, multiple road tests, total cost 2 hrs labour. They didn't have Terra Clean.. even though the maint book specifies Terra Clean and that was really the only reason I came. They didn't top up the coolant (said it's better below the min for cold weather?) They couldn't fully inspect everything because of the "oily rust check"? Then they tried real hard to sell me +$600 brake pads.. I don't think I'll be going back

I'm not sure if the brake pads included tax or what, but I immediately turned that down (my brake pads are fine, I check those myself, maybe down to 25%.. months of hard use left in those) Then they said they would even install them for free! Oh.. I used to swap my brake pads every other weekend for the track. Cost for superior StopTech Street Performance pads? $157 CAD on amazon.ca with free shipping (that's for 4 performance sports car brakes!)

After finding my next brake pads, amazon.ca recommends a blue Subaru oil filter and cabin air filter (the only 2 other things I went to dealer for!)


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

And people wonder why they are affectionately called 'Stealerships'.


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