# Canadian arrested in Russian hacking story



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This is quite a story.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/russia-hackers-charged-yahoo-breach-1.4026006

A 22 year old Canadian in Ancaster has been arrested (by RCMP) for his alleged involvement in a Russian-led hacking effort that stole information from Yahoo. I'm not sure how extradition works in cases like this but this young man is in a lot of trouble.

The indictment documents look very serious. He's named as a defendant in a series of charges that include various kinds of computer fraud/abuse, stealing trade secrets, Conspiracy to Commit Economic Espionage, Economic Espionage.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/3517784/Dmitri-Dokuchae-Et-Al-Indictment-Redacted-0.pdf

The first few pages of the indictment are worth a read. They allege that two Russian intelligence officers directed information theft from US computers. They allege that the 22 yo Canadian carried out instructions from the Russian intelligence officers to compromise and steal information from systems, including from US government officials.

The indictment says that when the two Russian agents decided on a target of interest, they would ask the 22 yo Canadian to hack into the target's account. When he was successful, he was paid a bounty of $100. Apparently he used methods such as spear phishing.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Actually upon reading that indictment, the Canadian's role sounds rather minor. He was a hacker for hire getting paid $100 a pop (times 80 accounts means a total haul of $8,000) and the methods he used were simple; these were not sophisticated hacks. And yet, out of all the defendants named, he is likely going to be the only person to face trial. So Russian intelligence outsources the dirty work to a relatively novice young guy (who's stupid enough to flaunt his wealth and draw attention)... and the young guy gets life in prison while the organizers are not touched.

Remember, this guy was 19 years old at the time of this alleged hacking. He was paid something on the order of $8,000. To me it doesn't sound right for a young guy to get massive jail time and have his life ended for carrying out petty thefts _when he was 19 years old_, all because the people who happened to hire him were Russian intelligence officials. The counts against him add up to 40 years in prison.

Here's an analogy: a mafia is going around blackmailing officials, and to do this they need to break into each victim's house. They hire a 19 year old burglar to break into houses and steal paperwork, but don't tell him much else. Then the US Government shows up. The mafia bosses are long gone and fled, so the Feds nail the burglar and the kid is the only person to stand trial and get jail time -- does that seem fair? The 20 year old rots in prison for the next 40 years. Did the kid _orchestrate_ the massive crime?

This Bloomberg article says that a Canadian judge will decide whether to extradite him to the U.S.

The indictment also lists the personal property the US Government is seizing from the Canadian defendant in Ancaster, ON:
- grey Aston Martin DBS
- black Mercedez Benz C54

How exactly does the US government seize property from Canadian jurisdiction? Would this not create a dangerous precedent if it were to occur? For example the US government, believing that various American citizens have violated US tax law (that means many of you CMF'ers since you are not filing US taxes or FBAR) *would come and seize physical property from Canadian soil -- such as your cars and houses*


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Use the full weight of the law and put him away for as long as possible so that the other morons think twice.

Ill gotten bounty absolutely should be confiscated.

Supporting criminals on the basis that CMFers are not filing US tax returns... what?


----------



## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

How did he get an Aston Martin and a Benz if he was only paid $8000? It seems like the reporting of his payment must be incorrect, either that, or both him and some car financing company are complete idiots.


----------



## STech (Jun 7, 2016)

mordko said:


> Use the full weight of the law and put him away for as long as possible so that the other morons think twice.


Yup.

Go easy on him, and you're just begging for millions of copy cats. A 19 year old is an adult. An adult who is fully aware of right and wrong. A 9 year old is a kid, a 19 year old is a man. This man was lured by the fast money and life of crime, and he deserves everything coming to him. If he's a super genius of some sort, then hire him to work on the good side, and reduce his sentence to half a lifetime.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes, undoubtedly they're going full force after him to make a point. But still, look at the 4 defendants: three of them are Russian state actors, professionally trained by the (modern) KGB, and the 4th guy is a 19 year old teenager who is a total novice. They're only going after him because it's possible to nab him in Canada, as opposed to the others hiding out in Russia.

As for the CMF comment I made, here's the logic:

The USA is trying to seize property from this Canadian because he committed crimes in America. There are some CMF members among us who are also (strictly speaking) breaking laws in the US by failing to file US taxes and report their assets in FBAR.

It sounds to me that if it's possible for the USA to seize cars from this hacker, then it's also possible for the USA to seize cars & homes of the CMF'ers who are breaking US tax laws.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Whatever the case, use the Canadian as the basis to bring Russian cyber-hacking out into the open so that the public understands the seriousness of hacking. Too many people dismiss this sort of thing.

Talking about FBAR this US person is in a heap of doo-doo for failure to submit his FBARs


> The U.S. Justice Department is suing a Canadian resident for the equivalent of $1.1 million Cdn, saying he failed to file a form to the U.S. government listing his bank accounts outside the United States.
> 
> Jeffrey Pomerantz, a Vancouver-area resident with dual Canadian-U.S citizenship, filed his income tax returns to the IRS and the CRA during the three years in question but didn't file a second form called the Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR).


There is no excuse for not knowing. It was top and center when I was a US person. Same thing as the T1135 for us Canucks. Don't mess around. CRA and IRS trade data.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Spudd said:


> How did he get an Aston Martin and a Benz if he was only paid $8000? It seems like the reporting of his payment must be incorrect, either that, or both him and some car financing company are complete idiots.



I was thinking the same thing, Spudd. I saw this story on CTV news last night and it mentioned him showing off wealth. I guess that could mean he bought a few beers for his friends. Or it means that Aston Martins and Mercedes are on special right now. I suppose he followed CMF advice and bought used.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed - thanks for posting that example of the US person. I've posted about this for a long time in the Taxation thread; there are very serious penalties for failing to file US taxes or failing to file FBAR. Here's a real example.

And not only can they sue him for $, but perhaps they can seize his property too. For example maybe the US govt seizes his Canadian real estate the same way the US is trying to seize the hacker's cars.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^ 


To avoid double posting in the Taxation section, I'll mention that FBAR story is posted there as well ... no comments so far.


Cheers


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Worth noting that this is anything but "victim-less crime". This guy was helping Russia to access information on specific individuals - Russian and western politicians, journalists and security services personnel. Journalists and politicians not liked by the Russian regime have a tendency to get shot. Others are blackmailed. Yet others have their sex lives exposed on TV by the government channels. 

The Canadian man was an accessory to a massive crime. Wile the masterminds will likely get away scot-free, good to see at least some justice being done.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> How exactly does the US government seize property from Canadian jurisdiction? Would this not create a dangerous precedent if it were to occur?


 Because Canada will do everything US really wants Canada to do ... limited independence 





> Novaya Gazeta also links Dokuchaev to the activities of Shaltai-Boltai (Humpty Dumpty), a group known for hacking the mobile devices and emails of Russian officials and business personalities and then selling the information abroad. The group leaked correspondence of Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, editor-in-chief of the Russian Life TV channel, and Timur Prokopenko, deputy head of Internal Affairs Administration in the Russian Presidency.
> 
> Former CIA intelligence analyst Ron Aledo believes the situation has the signs of a “double agent operation” that went wrong, given that one person is being charged by both the Russian and US governments.
> 
> “That person that worked for the FSB and was arrested by the Russian government on high treason charges, and now is also charged by the US government for hacking into the US corporation – has looks, the appearance of being a double agent,” Aledo told RT.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> Worth noting that this is anything but "victim-less crime". This guy was helping Russia to access information on specific individuals - Russian and western politicians, journalists and security services personnel. . . . The Canadian man was an accessory to a massive crime.


I agree with you here. This was a massive crime, and this guy was helping. If this is proved in court, he should be punished for that.

Still, I have trouble with a relatively small, novice actor taking the entire fall for a massive crime, especially when he was only 19 at the time and the other actors are world-class professionals with training in espionage. *The problem is that throwing this kid in jail for 40 years is not going to do anything to prevent these crimes from occurring again -- it's not a deterrent.*

Because, with such a minor role, he wasn't the one guiding the crimes. The actual hacks he was doing (phishing and some cookie forgery) are simple techniques that are easily learned by anyone. The next time the Russian professionals can just find a 15 year old American to do the same thing, or a 16 year old in Belarus (kids who are too young and naive to understand any consequences of what they're doing). Nailing the Canadian kid will not be a deterrent of any kind.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

I. no evidence that the Canadian was a dupe or innocent. O mean did the Russians encourage his extravagant life style so that he would get caught ? Some people are ultra permissive. and do not understand the importance of authority in the functioning is a society.
th


----------



## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Still, I have trouble with a relatively small, novice actor taking the entire fall for a massive crime, especially when he was only 19 at the time and the other actors are world-class professionals with training in espionage.


If you read the indictment, he's only indicted on a few of the counts, for most of the counts the other 3 Russians are the only ones indicted. I don't know if they are able to arrest / have arrested the Russians, but it's pretty clear that they bear the weight of the charges here.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

On the television show 48/hours they feature homicides which are solved by the detectives. Frequently the perpetrators are 18_19 year old Blacks. The reason for the murder is frequently trivial,a debt of $ 50 or a slight. These young people are routinely given life sentences. These young people never had a chance to live and their lives are gone. An 18 year old taken away in handcuffs at the end of the show.


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

His lawyer's defense so far - Trump's using his client as a scapegoat.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Spudd said:


> If you read the indictment, he's only indicted on a few of the counts, for most of the counts the other 3 Russians are the only ones indicted.


Yes he's only listed on a few counts, but the counts he's listed on still add up to a max 40 years in prison.

Traditionally the US has pursued computer hacking crimes extremely aggressively so I would expect them to keep nearly all those counts and push for close to the 40 year maximum.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

If a Canadian breaks the law while in the US, they stand trial in the US and are incarcerated in the US.

He should have a trial in Canada under Canadian law.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

SMK said:


> His lawyer's defense so far - Trump's using his client as a scapegoat.


Good luck with that.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> If a Canadian breaks the law while in the US, they stand trial in the US and are incarcerated in the US.
> 
> He should have a trial in Canada under Canadian law.


I would agree with that if the target of the crime was primarily Canada/Canadians. 

In recent times there have been a spate of cases involving Canadian criminals defrauding U.S. residents via telemarketing. That all start bawling when they realize that the U.S. actually punishes criminals. They beg to stay here and be sentenced to a week in Vancouver in January. Happily, in B.C. at least, extradition judges don't but it. Here is but one example of many:


EXTRADITION — Committal — • Evidence • Surrender — Judicial review • CHARTER OF RIGHTS — Section 6(1) — United States seeking extradition of fugitive on charges of fraud involving a telemarketing scheme targeting elderly U.S. residents falsely claiming they had won a lottery — Extradition judge finding Record of the Case providing sufficient, reliable, available evidence upon which to justify committal — Appeal court finding no error by extradition judge — Court also dismissing judicial review of minister’s surrender order, finding no breach of accused’s s. 6(1) Charter right to remain in Canada and not finding that surrender would be unjust or oppressive.

http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/CA/11/02/2011BCCA0225.htm


----------

