# Remove power steering increase gas mileage ?



## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Power steering I heard increases the amount of gas used by 5% why not remove it ?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The first result when I google 'power steering' is wikipedia.



> Power steering helps drivers steer vehicles by augmenting steering effort of the steering wheel. Hydraulic or electric actuators add controlled energy to the steering mechanism, so the driver needs to provide only modest effort regardless of conditions. Power steering helps considerably when a vehicle is stopped or moving slowly. Also, power steering provides some feedback of forces acting on the front wheels to give an ongoing sense of how the wheels are interacting with the road; this is typically called "rοad feel".


In other words, it makes it easier and more pleasant to drive. Why put A/C in cars?


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Walking reduces gas consumption by 100%...

Wouldn't want to walk 500Km's though


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

You make me giggle lonewolf. Ever driven a car without power steering? Fun times. You're looking at less than a 5hp draw to run a power steering pump. It's why most are still hydraulic pumps, the savings by switching to an electric set up are minimal. 

How about pull the AC? And the heater, who needs windshield wipers anyway? Seats are for losers. Interior panels are dead weight. Window regulators can go to. Air bags, side impact bracing, side view mirrors, hell I can keep going. 

Then what you do is find every single nut and bolt and hacksaw off the threads you don't need. Tear the motor down and pull two pistons out/seal the intake valves shut.

Then you take a look at all the "modifications" you've done. Scrap the car. Buy a bike, or horse.


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## callyhan (Dec 7, 2010)

I had problems with the power steering lines on my camry last year. Even with the power steering at maybe 85% I nearly pulled my shoulder trying to turn corners, parking would cripple you without it.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Some newer cars have electric power steering. My new X3 has it but it tends to deaden the steering feel. Not sure I like it.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Electric power steering is actually becoming pretty common in new cars.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

crazyjackcsa, Iam happy I was able to make you giggle. I think your right its not worth it

I have driven a car without power steering but they were older & designed without power steering & had biger steering wheels. I felt in control just as much as I would with power steering. @ very slow speeds or @ a stop such as parrallel parking the steering wheel was a little more work to turn though.

When I googled remove power steering for better gas mileage I was surprised @ how many are doing it & putting on bigger steering wheels. Some guys are removing the air conditioner fans when the air conditioner is not needed in the cooler weather


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Should have said according to the guys doing it. The fan does not need to be removed. Just take off the blades of the fan for the cool weather then put them back on for when the air conditioner is needed.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

This could become a very long debate on the difference between whether it is possible to make major mechanical alterations to a highly engineered piece of equipment and whether it is wise to do so.

Let's go back to the original post. "_Power steering *I heard* increases the amount of gas used by 5% .._"

Before we go madly off in all directions, please provide substantive evidence of the truthfulness of this rumour.


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

I'll let you all know of some potential benefits soon. I am installing some underdrive pulleys on our BMW. this will mean less engine effort is going to drive the accessories and more to turn the wheels. stay tuned....


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## joncnca (Jul 12, 2009)

lol, this is one of the 'ghettoest' ideas i've seen on this forum in recent memory

this isn't a real criticism. i mean it in good humour.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

heh  I've been driving w/o power steering and air for that reason, does that make me ghetto? ;-)

Drove through an unplowed driveway in a squall a couple years ago and hit a big snowbank, snow came up underneath and the belt flew off.
Looked into it and found that the belt only drives power steering and A/C, so I left it off to save fuel.

Armstrong steering isn't so bad once you get used to it but it could possibly be dangerous if you're not moving and need to get out of the way in a hurry because it's hard to move the steering wheel at a standstill or at low speeds.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

There is no way power steering absorbs that much power.

The typical power steering is hydraulically powered. There is a pump driven by the engine. When the steering is not engaged, the system is not under pressure. The oil simply flows through the system and back to the pump. As the whole system is running in oil, the friction is very minimal. Certainly less than 1 HP.

When you turn the wheel the pressure engages. Even then, the pressure needed to steer is small unless the car is at a dead stop. On some older cars you could hear a squaling or groaning sound from the steering, when cranking the wheel hard with the car stopped. The squealing was caused by the drive belt slipping, the groaning from the pump. Even in these rather rare occasions the power consumption is no more than 1 or 2 HP.

It may be possible to buy a small car without power steering if you really want one. But the fuel saving is negligible. 

You will save more gas by keeping your tires inflated and your windows rolled up ( less rolling resistance and less air resistance respectively).


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> There is no way power steering absorbs that much power.
> 
> The typical power steering is hydraulically powered. There is a pump driven by the engine. When the steering is not engaged, the system is not under pressure. The oil simply flows through the system and back to the pump. As the whole system is running in oil, the friction is very minimal. Certainly less than 1 HP.
> 
> ...


I tried telling them that too Rusty. I've actually read that the typical set up uses about 5 hp, but the point is the same. 

It is true that underdrive pulleys will free up power. Again, about 5 hp worth. And if you underdrive anymore than about 10% you'll start running into cooling problems, alternator problems and a whole lot more.

If you're building a racecar, 10hp for something so easy to do is nice. But from a fuel economy standpoint on a street machine it won't make much of a difference.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I have a old 1-ton truck(dodge)that has no power steering its a biiitch(this is a 1973 truck *work* truck-not personal)4 on the floor also......it is ridiculous how hard it is(i got to brace myself everytime im taking a corner lol)even worse is backing up into a ''tight'' driveway(i do that on residential jobs sites)I have to rotate the wheel @least 8x to make a 90 degree turn(with holding it,so it doesnt coil back)upside-great forearm workout...........never again will i have a truck without power steering(im actually waiting for my truck to die but the thing wont,it just keeps ticking)


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I wouldn't want to modify the steering then get in an accident.

If there was an easy way to save significant fuel (ie more than 0.1L/100km) they'd be all over it, there is NO WAY they'd leave 5% on the table. The benefits are large enough to easily pay for electric power steering.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Donald you need to have a mechanic look at that truck. No way should it be that hard to steer.

First, pump up the tires to the recommended pressure or a little more (5PSI more). If that fixes it, great. If not, have worn parts replaced and an alignment done.

In almost 40 years of hard work there is a good chance something has worn out or got out of alignment.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

For everybody else that wants to save gas - forget about disconnecting the power steering.

First pump up your tires to the recommended pressure in your owner's manual or on the door post. If you want to go farther, do not inflate them more than the max pressure listed on the tire sidewall.

Get your front end checked and a 4 wheel alignment. While you are at it, check the brakes are not dragging and the wheel bearings turn smoothly.

Change your oil to synthetic. Don't forget the transmission and differential if you have a manual trans.

There are lots of ways to save gas by careful driving, the list would be too long to go into here. But there are web sites that specialize in this kind of thing, Ecomodder is one, if you do a search for Hypermiling you will find much food for thought.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

yeah, ofc it makes sense that fully inflated tires and using the brakes less etc make more difference in gas consumption than power steering.

I do though think running w/o power steering makes a little difference, not enough to bother disconnecting for, but in my situation after the belt flew off I also have air conditioning disconnected, and that does make a difference now that the convenience of flipping a switch is gone.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> There is no way power steering absorbs that much power.


This is my gut reaction too. A typical small car cruising on level ground at 80 km/h is probably under 10 HP for the actual travel. The reason we have such large engines is so that we can go up a 10% grade at 120, or accelerate to 100 in seconds. Steady state is but a small fraction of your engine HP.

Another way to know that 5 HP is nonsense is to consider what a human could output to steer a car without power steering. About 1/10 HP would leave you with very sore arms. In these days of ever desired fuel economy, is an auto maker going to install a system that is 50 times less efficient than it should/could be?

hboy43


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Actually hboy, your not allowing for a lot of ancillary items in your calculation. Manual steering boxes have a different ratio than power steering. They require more turns of the steering wheel for a given change at the wheels of the car, also, steering wheels were built a lot bigger in the olden days to help the driver. Some of the really old cars have a knob on the wheel that would help you crank. Also, the 5hp isn't strictly power to the wheel, it's also frictional loss on the belts, the fluid, the bearings and everything else. There are plenty of articles with testing bearing out the 3-5hp number. With a fulcrum and lever large enough, I could do with work of 100 horses.

I agree with you, there is very little savings, and isn't worth it. But there is a savings there.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

As far as air conditioning goes.... Your car will get BETTER mileage with the air conditioning on, and the windows rolled up, than it will with the air off, and the windows down, at 50 MPH. This is due to the air resistance with the windows down.

Air conditioning does not use as much power as people think, or as much gas. When air conditioning first came out in the fifties it made a difference of 1 or 2 MPG but today's systems are far more efficient.


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