# My TFSA is in the red



## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

My TFSA now has less than the $25,500 I put into it. I'd be better off if I put my money in a simple HISA. :grumpy:

I think part of it has to do with the fact that I started putting money in it in 2011 after I became debt-free so I missed the big gains stocks experienced from mid-2009 and on. But even ignoring that, I should be better off than I am.

Please console me and tell me I'm not a bad investor, just an unlucky one.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Sherlock said:


> My TFSA now has less than the $25,500 I put into it. I'd be better off if I put my money in a simple HISA. :grumpy:
> 
> I think part of it has to do with the fact that I started putting money in it in 2011 after I became debt-free so I missed the big gains stocks experienced from mid-2009 and on. But even ignoring that, I should be better off than I am.
> 
> Please console me and tell me I'm not a bad investor, just an unlucky one.


All right, I will make you feel better.

I see TFSA as "play / speculation account" and RRSP as "retirement account" So every year, I gamble $5000 on penny stock and 3x leveraged ETF. If I win it big, it's all tax fee. Oh well, my balance went from $20,000 to $3,000. hehehe...


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

There were some pretty good stock gains even from 2011, especially near the end but it depends on what you invested in.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Why not just gamble?

I think the odds of winning at roulette are probably higher than penny stocks and 3X leveraged ETFs.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

MoreMiles said:


> Oh well, my balance went from $20,000 to $3,000. hehehe...


Is this true, or are you just trying to make him feel better?


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

But my RRSP is soaring majestically! Mostly US blue chippers in there though. If only I hadn't sold TSLA at $34 IIRC.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

No biggie, hang in there.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

It might be down today. But don't be so near sighted. If you bought good companies I have no doubts they will continue to make profits, which will translate into higher share prices for you in the future.

Please don't change your investing strategy based on the entire TSX getting its @ss kicked today.


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

MoreMiles said:


> I see TFSA as "play / speculation account" and RRSP as "retirement account".


To some degree, I do the same thing. 

When I retire, the ratio of my TFSA to the remainder of my portfolio will be small. 
Therefore, I've decided to take some more risks with my TFSA, in the hope that I can make some big gains.

@Sherlock. To make you feel better, I held RIM for a portion of 2011, as it imploded (i.e. catching a falling knife.)
Early this year, I got my TFSA back to break even. However, I'm now back in the red again.

Luckily, my wife's TFSA has rebounded nicely and is well into positive territory.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

Yes you are bad investor.

You don't know what you are in you don't no why you are in it. You don't know if it's general market conditions that has your investments down. You don't the volatility of your investments. Many more.

Yes you are a bad investor. Now don't panic and sell. Start answering these ? Make informed decisions


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I'm confused by what you mean, can you elaborate by what you mean by "You don't know what you are in you don't no why you are in it."? Are you suggesting I don't know what stocks I'm holding in my TFSA? I definitely know every stock in there, why I bought it, and how it fits into my whole portfolio. Prior to adding any stock to my portfolio, I evaluate the company's fundamentals, I do a technical analysis, and I research what experts are saying about it. So I'm interested to see why you think I'm not aware of what stocks I hold or why I hold them.


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## Damien (May 30, 2013)

Are the reasons that you bought the stock for no longer there? If they are, just sit and wait and eventually you'll reap the rewards. Alot of the stocks that jumped this year jumped due to people feeling more secure about the economy and moving out of bonds and into blue chips. The blue chips became EXTREMELY overvalued. You may have missed on that opportunity but that's not really investing. 
I too am currently sitting on about 8% loss in my tfsa, I lost a huge chunk of it on getting into gold too late. It was a stupid speculative play and I paid for it. Cut my losses before it became as worse as it is today. Also, lost on another speculative play of a tech company. However, the catalyst event still has yet to come for them and I'm clenching my butt cheeks in the hopes that they wont disappoint. Although at this point I really can't lose that much more on them. My other investments, are valued today as they were when I invested in them in late 2011 early 2012. I'm getting ok dividends on them while I wait for the value to be unlocked.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm sure you have no idea what or why you are in these stocks.

If you did know you would know why they are down, have a reasonable idea if they will preform better in the near future. And you wouldn't make rookie post.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

And what makes you think I don't know why my stocks are down and if they will perform better soon? You're making a lot of assumptions about me.


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

Yes ask on open forum


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The prevailing "theory" was that a TFSA should hold stocks that offer the best opportunity for oversized returns, or what could be called "more speculative" investments", as an investor would want the greatest gains in the untaxable TFSA.

The long term "retirement" types of holdings were to be put into the RRSP and should therefore be of the more conservative variety.

Given the theory, what has happened is exactly what could have been predicted.

The greatest gains and deepest losses are both based on higher risk investments, so I don't know if it is fair to assume one person was right and another wrong.........based on returns or highly speculative investments. It would be more likely that one benefited from more luck than the other.

Today, the rhetoric seems to have changed...........perhaps because with each passing year, there is more allowance available for the TFSA and therefore they contain a significant amount more money. Some predict TFSA will replace RRSP as the main savings vehicle for retirement.

If they do.............a "rethink" will be necessary on the amount of risk an investor should take on the TFSA funds if designated towards their future retirement needs.

Times they are a'changing.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

sags said:


> The prevailing "theory" was that a TFSA should hold stocks that offer the best opportunity for oversized returns, or what could be called "more speculative" investments", as an investor would want the greatest gains in the untaxable TFSA.
> 
> The long term "retirement" types of holdings were to be put into the RRSP and should therefore be of the more conservative variety.


I guess I must be an exception. I treated it like my retirement fund and did keep an emergency cash fund in TFSA as well. Unlike almost everyone else in this forum who seems to continuously pick winners I tend to have losses and when speculating I prefer using non-registered accounts where I can at least get something out of it.


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## kaleb0 (Apr 26, 2011)

My TFSA is just about break-even at 25400 right now (This is after hitting a high of about 32k at one point). I did sell a few positions at a profit before they dropped down 5-8% but one of my largest positions is currently down 12.4% in the red. I am considering liquidating everything and sitting in cash at 25500 (we'll call it a fresh start? as it would be the same cash amount as someone coming in new to the game) and waiting for bigger and better buying opportunities once the markets _really_ freak out when the QE taps get turned off _or_ China's credit bubble pops _or_ central bank's interest rates rise.


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## cannew (Jun 19, 2011)

Slow & Steady usually wins the race. As with all my investments I've stuck with stocks which pay dividends & have a history of raising their dividends. The Connolly Report strategy!! 

It may not provide the largest gains or the best, but I'm up 32% and the dividends re-invested each quarter keep growing.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Sherlock said:


> My TFSA now has less than the $25,500 I put into it. I'd be better off if I put my money in a simple HISA. :grumpy:
> 
> I think part of it has to do with the fact that I started putting money in it in 2011 after I became debt-free so I missed the big gains stocks experienced from mid-2009 and on. But even ignoring that, I should be better off than I am.
> 
> Please console me and tell me I'm not a bad investor, just an unlucky one.


 Take comfort in being part of the herd. The average investor will lose money.
Are you sure you want to take comfort ?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> The prevailing "theory" was that a TFSA should hold stocks that offer the best opportunity for oversized returns, or what could be called "more speculative" investments", as an investor would want the greatest gains in the untaxable TFSA ...
> 
> Given the theory, what has happened is exactly what could have been predicted.


Hmmm .. maybe that should be "prevailing theory in some circles" instead?

The lion's share of the media coverage I've read have had a prevailing theory that given that capital losses are of no benefit, speculative investments should be avoided.

Some here on CMF have advocated for the highly speculative investment approach, some have advocated for emergency funds and some have advocated to stick with whatever one knows well.


Now for someone who bought into the speculative approach, especially where the required knowledge/experience to minimise risk effectively - a loss is fairly predictable.


Cheers


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## Dibs (May 26, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I guess I must be an exception. I treated it like my retirement fund and did keep an emergency cash fund in TFSA as well. Unlike almost everyone else in this forum who seems to continuously pick winners I tend to have losses and when speculating I prefer using non-registered accounts where I can at least get something out of it.


Beware of selection bias - for every winning pick that you read about in this forum there is likely a bad pick that is not talked about. For those who posted in the TFSA thread doing really well, there are probably many others who did not post. People are more likely to talk about their successes than their failures.


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## DesignerDee (Apr 10, 2013)

Dibs said:


> Beware of selection bias - for every winning pick that you read about in this forum there is likely a bad pick that is not talked about. For those who posted in the TFSA thread doing really well, there are probably many others who did not post. People are more likely to talk about their successes than their failures.


I can honestly say that as of this morning, mine is within 20$ of going into the red. I was a late contributor (February '13), but at least I have something aside!


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

Sherlock said:


> My TFSA now has less than the $25,500 I put into it. I'd be better off if I put my money in a simple HISA. :grumpy:
> 
> I think part of it has to do with the fact that I started putting money in it in 2011 after I became debt-free so I missed the big gains stocks experienced from mid-2009 and on. But even ignoring that, I should be better off than I am.
> 
> Please console me and tell me I'm not a bad investor, just an unlucky one.



Why did you buy your current holdings?
Have any of the fundamentals changed with those companies?
Would you still purchase them today based on the current price?


If the answer to the last question is no then you should probably consider selling and starting again.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Dibs said:


> Beware of selection bias - for every winning pick that you read about in this forum there is likely a bad pick that is not talked about. For those who posted in the TFSA thread doing really well, there are probably many others who did not post. People are more likely to talk about their successes than their failures.


Oh I was just being self-deprecating. I am sure there are those who do have losses, but if you were to judge by the majority of the posts you would think that everyone had $1M portfolios built from scratch within 5 years. I'm exaggerating of course.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

My contribution limit is probably around $25000, but my TFSA is nearly empty. Lost about a grand or more on Mako Surgical, made $600-700 on GM and STARZ to bring it back up a bit. Mako was one of my first, and worst picks to date, but I've found the rising tide has lifted most stocks . I don't yet have enough money to utilize my TFSA. My company matches keep most of my contributions going into my RRSP.


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