# Terminating a tenancy by issuing an N12 form (Ontario)



## Wishful_Aspirations

Hi Everyone,

I handed the N12 form (Notice To Terminate a Tenancy at the End of the. Term For Landlord's or Purchaser's Own Use) to my tenant a few days back;

I do intend on moving into the property myself, and I have no intentions of renting it out again.

Furthermore, I am able to provide documentation that the place I lived at before has been sold.

I put a 60 day time frame on the notice, therefore requesting it back by Sept 1st.

I also handed her an N11 form (Agreement to end a tenancy), so that once she is in agreement of the move out date, she can sign and hand it back to me.

However I'm not sure if there are any further steps I should take at this point.
Should I file this with the LTB as well? Reading through their site, the steps are quite vague, indicating that 'I can file this request...' do I still need to file the L2 form - or is that an option to take (and pay the $170.00 filing fee)should my tenant not agree to the termination date?


Appreciate any guidance, thanks.




On a side note, i must say that in comparison to other provinces, the LTB process in ON is absolutely archaic, and a complete pita, and intentionally meant to complicate, confuse and inconvenience an individual...but thats just me venting...


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## mcshen

The LTB is a joke. Set you expectation low so you don't get disappointed.

I went thru the same process just now.

Your N12 is defective. The last day has to be the END of the month and at least 60 days after the day you hand the N12 to your tenant. So if you hand it to him today, the end day MUST be Sept 30, which is 60 days away and it's the end of the month. N12 can only be used if the tenancy is month to month, otherwise you are **** out of luck cuz the LTB will screw you and protect the tenant. 

If you tenant is a piece of ****, handing the N12 to him is enough. He'll probably leave. If you want to get a hearing from LTB, make sure you do a affidavit from the LTB stating that you are the owner of the house and you intent to move in. The LTB doesn't tell you to do an affidavit because it wants you to lose the case in the hearing.

If you have a hearing date, there's mediation before the actual hearing. I suggest you pray first before going to the hearing cuz LTB will be on the tenant's side. 

Don't know anything about N11. All I can say is good luck and I hope it works out for you. LTB is a joke. If you need a paralegal to represent you during the hearing, PM me. I'll let you know. He represented me. 

Again good luck.


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## mcshen

I thought I posted something. Where was my post?


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## financialnoob

I don't think the N11 was necessary but like mcshen pointed out, the N12 has to be the last date of the month. You should probably re-issue that.

I've never dealt with an N12 so I would call the tribunal and speak with them for clarification on this form. Generally speaking, in the archaic and crappy system in Ontario, the N form acts as a notification and you can't do anything until the due date passes and the tenant has not done what they were supposed to. Then you file the appropriate L form. But it may be different with this one, though it wouldn't surprise me if it drags out a few extra months. You should discuss and consider a back-up plan if they don't move out on time.

As for your side-note, you're absolutely correct. Ontario's system is atrocious for landlords. Even the name of the legislation governing landlord/tenant items is a dead give-away. It went from the Landlord and Tenant Act to the Tenant Protection Act, and now the Residential Tenancies Act.


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## Wishful_Aspirations

Spoke with my tenant a few days ago, hoping something mutually agreeable to both of us could be reached...
boy was i wrong.... all i got was a confrontational attitude..

I've handed my case off to a paralegal since then.
Will keep you posted on the outcome...might be a while, however if in 3 or 4 months time if i got an interesting story to tell about a sherif, i'll let you all know!


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## mcshen

Just pray every night before you go to sleep. There's soooo many games the tenant can play.


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## chaudi

Hi Everyone,

I handed the N12 form (Notice To Terminate a Tenancy at the End of the. Term For Landlord's or Purchaser's Own Use) to my tenant a few days back;

Did it occur to you to talk to you tenant before you did this, you know like pick up the phone and call them and tell them you wanted move in?


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## Wishful_Aspirations

chaudi said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I handed the N12 form (Notice To Terminate a Tenancy at the End of the. Term For Landlord's or Purchaser's Own Use) to my tenant a few days back;
> 
> Did it occur to you to talk to you tenant before you did this, you know like pick up the phone and call them and tell them you wanted move in?


Yepp thought about it, but knowing my tenant, i thought i'd go all official and hand her the forms instead...


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## Chuck

*Can someone PLEASE advise what the Form N12 actually does. Were we mislead ??*

Hi folks, I'm new to all this and was hoping to get some clarity and advise from real people regarding the N12 or 'request to end tenancy' allowing owner to move into their property upon request. 

My mother has terminal cancer and doesn't have long to go. 
She wants to move into her rented and owned condo as she cannot function in her current house residence with stairs. 
The rental condo she owns is a great place for her and her husband to live out the remainder of their days.

The term of the lease has not yet expired so we called the Landlord Tenancy Board and asked what we can do to terminate lease early. 
They verbally advised that an owner can move into their property long as it become primary residence. 
They told us to submit the N12 form to the tenant and the board for review. 
We read in the description:
The owner has the right to move into their owned property even before lease expiration as long as landlord gives minimal 60 days notice.

So we gave tenants 100 days notice allowing them opportunity to find another residence. 
My parents sold their home with no conditions so they cannot back-out and have a set closing date.

Today (40 days after giving notice) we get a response from the tenants who state they will not be moving out on the requested date and want to retain the property for another year as per the lease agreement.
So I phone the support line again and another representative verbally states that we cannot obtain the property sooner than the last day of the lease expiry date. 

I'm so confused, not sure what and who to believe anymore and my parents are now super stressed thinking they will have nowhere to live come July 31st. 
These are traditional people who have lived their whole life working and saving and can't believe they will soon be homeless. 

Does anyone know what this form N12 actually does ?
If the owner cannot obtain the property before the lease term ends, what's the point of form N12 ????
If we have to wait for the lease to expire, then we plan not to move before the expiration date and just wait it out then don't renew it, simple as that. 

Can anyone suggest a good legal counsel i can discuss this with.


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## james4beach

mcshen said:


> If you tenant is a piece of ****, handing the N12 to him is enough. He'll probably leave. If you want to get a hearing from LTB, make sure you do a affidavit from the LTB stating that you are the owner of the house and you intent to move in. The LTB doesn't tell you to do an affidavit because it wants you to lose the case in the hearing.


It's also possible this "piece of ****" tenant is familiar with the rule of law. There are rules you must follow, so filling the forms in a valid way is required -- it's not optional.



financialnoob said:


> As for your side-note, you're absolutely correct. Ontario's system is atrocious for landlords. Even the name of the legislation governing landlord/tenant items is a dead give-away. It went from the Landlord and Tenant Act to the Tenant Protection Act, and now the Residential Tenancies Act.


It's because of years of abuse from wealthy landlords, some of whom see tenants as pieces of ****.

The rules are biased towards protecting the renters because renters are at a severe disadvantage in the overall equation. They can be made homeless with relatively little notice, disrupting their housing, causing them to scramble to find a new place to live, which might even disrupt their job and family. All of this because they are less wealthy than the landlord.

Laws like this protect people who are intrinsically disadvantaged. If you really can't understand why Ontario's system is tough on landlords, then it sounds like you don't understand the difficult situation that renters have in general.

Thank goodness the laws are there to enforce protections, instead of relying on landlords having empathy for their "piece of ****" tenants.


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## OnlyMyOpinion

James, Chuck is posting for the first time with a new question/concern about the N12 process.
Your reply picks up comments from 6 years ago and does not help him at all. Go back to sleep.
Chuck, there are some knowledgeable landlords on CMF. I'm hoping you hear from some of them.


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## OptsyEagle

I am not an expert but contracts or leases are designed to protect both parties. Your parents were protected by the agreement that the tenant would pay the monthly rents for the time specified within the lease and the tenant is protected by knowing that they will not be asked to leave before the end date specified within the lease.

I suspect the person you talked to about the N12 either did not understand or misunderstood that the tenant had an active lease. They probably thought they were on month to month. My understanding is that the N12 works for month to month tenants to give them notice and a reason for their eviction.

My guess is that your parents are going to need to find some other place to live since they cannot expect another family to become homeless, just so that your parents, who reneged on their agreement, are not.


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## sags

Every time I read one of these similar posts about renting, I wonder why anyone rents from landlords owning one or a couple of places.

There are professional rental companies with many rental units, so there are lots of other choices.


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## Potato

As OptsyEagle says, if they have a lease in place, they have a right to stay. But even if your parents can't _force _them out, everything is negotiable. For $5,000 or $10,000, many tenants would be willing to break the lease and leave early. (and before having a knee-jerk reaction to paying the tenants for their inconvenience, put it in perspective for real estate transaction fees -- how much did the buyers of your mom's place pay in LTT, and how much did your mom pay in realtor's commission to sell?) Or, they can try to lease back the house from the buyer to cover the period between the closing date and when the tenant's lease expires on the condo.


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## Mukhang pera

It's been a long time since I lived in Ontario and I am not familiar with its residential tenancy law, but it's a safe bet, even without taking time to read the legislation, that the underpinning of the law there, like almost everywhere else these days, is the doctrine of "security of tenure" - tenants cannot be the subject of the landlords whims and can only be evicted in limited circumstances.

I cannot for a second imagine anyplace where a L/L and Tnt can enter a contract for a fixed term, yet one party retains the right to back out before the end of term. Why then bother with a lease? It would be a thing writ in water.

Potato is right. Wait for the lease to end or do a buyout. As an aside, in BC, and probably in Ontario, a lease becomes a monthly tenancy at its end. One must still give notice of termination for a valid cause - in this case, owner occupation. Do not just show up with your moving truck on the last day of the lease without notice having been given. The tenants can tell you to pound sand.

The only other possible hole to shoot through in a case like this would be to subject the lease and the circumstances of its execution to microscopic scrutiny, all in hope of finding it somehow void for uncertainty/illegality/failure to adhere to formal requirements, etc. Not too likely, but ya' never know.


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## james4beach

Yes. There's a lease, you can't force them out (except for certain severe violations). That's the whole point of a lease.


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## tavogl

Either respect the contract you agreed/signed or offer them money to move out, they have the right to stay there until the end of the lease. I really feel bad for you/your situation but the tenants are not at fault here.


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