# Car hoses and lines replacement



## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi, my 2007 Hyundai Tucson is currently 8 years old. I want to drive it for another 5 to 7 years. As preventive actions, I plan to replace all the brake lines and fuel line and coolant and heater hoses in 2017. Is it a good time to change all that if I don't want the chance to stuck on the roadside in winter? How much would all that cost? Thanks.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

I wouldn't think it would be necessary to replace all hoses on a 7yr old vehicle. Why not ensure you inspect them each year and replace as they get worn/soft, etc.?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

namelessone said:


> Hi, my 2007 Hyundai Tucson is currently 8 years old. I want to drive it for another 5 to 7 years. As preventive actions, I plan to replace all the brake lines and fuel line and coolant and heater hoses in 2017. Is it a good time to change all that if I don't want the chance to stuck on the roadside in winter? How much would all that cost? Thanks.


I had two brake line splits happen in 2010/2011 on a 1998 Dakota truck. It was around 12 years old at the time

The truck was oil sprayed every fall, but the lines still split anyway, and I lost pretty much all my brakes on a downhill ramp on the 417 here in Ottawa, when the single front to back line split.

No real warning..driving along and hit the brake pedal to slow down, and all of a sudden the brake light and ABS warning indicator came on. 

Pedal was going down to the floor...ahead of me was a stopped car at the traffic light..I moved the automatic into first and applied the foot emergency
brake and veered off to the right of the car, narrowly rear ending the stopped car that had just moved off when the traffic light turned green.

Crawled along slowly on the St. Laurent and found a garage on a side street that took me in and replaced the front to back line, wheel cylinders and rubber hoses over the axle.
The truck had drum brakes at the back (replaced brake shoes, wheel cylinders, lines and labour cost me around $800 with the tax.

A year later, one of the front lines going to the left front wheel split, and I lost the brakes again on my driveway.. again. Called CAA and they put the truck up on a flat bed and took it into a near by garage.

Replaced master cylinder (it was giving me defective seal indication as sometimes the pedal would go all the way to the floor on startup), new front lines, and new calipers.
With labour, it was a bit over $1000. 
Total cost of the brake lines and other parts (over 2 years) $1800. Never had to replace any radiator hoses though.

Not sure if the line splits were due to the salt in the winter getting on the steel lines, or the lines rusted out from inside out due to water condensation in the brake fluid,
which I never changed..maybe that had something to do with the line split..don't really know.

Sold the truck in 2012. I blame Chrysler for not using stainless steel brake lines.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

You might be a bit premature on the need for this on a 10 year old vehicle, but as a preventative measure not a bad idea. Inspecting them is difficult and not the easiest to determine if replacement is needed. You can expect to have other items needing repair and maintenance during the time you expect to own the vehicle. 
Carverman was kind enough to give you some idea of costs for his work, and some motivation for doing the work. I also suggest going to a reliable independent auto shop to get an idea of the labour costs and call a dealer or aftermarket place to cost out the parts on your own.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Agree with others, 7 years is too early BUT ... you should inspect all hoses and lines to see if any are in bad shape.
Other lines to inspect/maintain (for most cars) include vacuum hoses so keep those in mind as well.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

RBull said:


> You might be a bit premature on the need for this on a 10 year old vehicle, but as a preventative measure not a bad idea.
> 
> *Inspecting them is difficult and not the easiest to determine if replacement is needed.* You can expect to have other items needing repair and maintenance during the time you expect to own the vehicle.


 ^^^^^
This is the main problem. The lines can look good on surface inspection. but there could be a spot of rust where the lines are clipped to the body or frame as in my case. 
The lines runs on hundreds (800) up to maximum pressure force ( up to 2000)thousand pounds per square inch of pressure when the power brakes are applied and
depending on how hard they are applied. A panic stop on all 4 wheels equals maximum line pressure. 

Any rust perforation from inside the line due to water being present in the lines, over time can cause the line to rupture at that that rust spot.
All it takes is a pin hole about the 1/2 to 1 mm in diameter to cause you to lose brake fluid on each application of the brake. 

Apply the brake a couple times and you won't notice anything wrong..apply it a third time, when the master cylinder/proportioning valve fluid reservoir is drained of fluid and sucking air and you got pedal problems, as soon as air is sucked into the lines from the pinhole on return of the brake pedal...the braking system is compromised.
You would have to take the cap off the fluid reservoir on the master cylinder each time you drive to determine if the fluid level is due to wear on the brakes or
a leak somewhere in the system. 

It really depends on the type of vehicle, age of the vehicle, wall thickness of the brake lines used , the amount of rust accumulation, salt, and your luck in owning the vehicle.
Undercoating or oil spray doesn't help as much when trying to protect brake lines. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and attracts moisture from condensation. Where that moisture
comes from, in a sealed system?..maybe the master cylinder reservoir exposed to air, or heating/cooling of the braking system.

I would venture a guess, that a vehicle under 10 years old probably doesn't need the lines replaced as a rule of thumb, but it all depends on your confidence level as a driver, and to some degree where you live. 

Living in dry cold prairie winters vs living in wet slushy winters with a lot of road salt used can make a big difference on the life expectancy of
the vehicle or the brake lines. 

If you never drive the vehicle during the winter, you probably have nothing to worry about.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Cainvest car is 8 years old now and OP plans to get work done in 2017. You're not the first to miss that!


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

carverman said:


> ^^^^^
> This is the main problem. The lines can look good on surface inspection. but there could be a spot of rust where the lines are clipped to the body or frame as in my case.
> The lines runs on hundreds (800) up to maximum pressure force up to 2000 thousand pounds per square inch of pressure when the power brakes are applied.
> Any rust perforation from inside the line due to water being present in the lines, over time can cause the line to rupture at that that rust spot.
> ...


100% agree Carverman. 

Another factor in rusting out is storing in heated garage in winter daily, after being driven out in winter snow/slush/salt.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

RBull said:


> Cainvest car is 8 years old now and OP plans to get work done in 2017. You're not the first to miss that!


Off by one year old, no biggie 
Either way, too early to just "replace all hoses" IMO but inspect for sure. 
From my experience 12-14 years old usually leads to common hose failures but many factors are involved (km's driven, storage location, climate, etc).


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## namelessone (Sep 28, 2012)

@RBull 
Thumbs up for noticing this. Attention to details is very important in everything including investing.

"Another factor in rusting out is storing in heated garage in winter daily, after being driven out in winter snow/slush/salt. "
+1
Higher temperature + winter salt speeds up rust. I've read a case where the guy parks his car in heated parking lot whole year round and had brake lines failure in a very short time (couple years). 
I park outdoor so that will help prolong lifespan of the brake lines and the car as a whole. I wash the car clean as soon as spring comes and the snow melts. 


@carverman
carverman is correct that inspecting the brake lines with naked eyes is not a reliable way to determine the conditions of brake lines.
I've read a post on DSLreports forum that a guy asked mechanic to inspect the brake lines and they said lines were fine. Few months later, the guy had brake lines failure. 
A brake failure is not a fun situaiton to be in.

Not changing the brake fluid for 12 years? Wow! But brake lines lasted 12 years without changing brake fluid is not bad at all. The problems with moisture are lower boiling point and corrosion to caliper and brake lines. 

They say: "After only a year of service, the brake fluid in the average vehicle may contain as much as two percent water. After 18 months, the level of contamination can be as high as three percent. And after several years of service, it is not unusual to find brake fluid that contains as much as seven to eight percent water."

As a frugal person, I am not going to ask the mechanic to bleed the brake lines every 2 years. I am using a lazy DIY way to do it by using fliud extractor (Mityvac 7201) to suck out the fluid in the resevoir and replace with fresh fluid. Drive it for 1 week and do it again. It takes just couple minutes each time. Do this once a year. I think it's sufficient to acheive 70% of effectivenss compared with bleeding the whole brake lines. If the moisture can travel so fast in just 2 year, it won't take long for the moisture to spread to the reservoir and reduce the moisture content in the brake lines. So hopefully, by partially changing the brake fluids, the brake lines have a higher chance of living more than 12 years. 

"Never had to replace any radiator hoses though."
So it seems cold weather is good for the rubber hose. I am also in Ottawa so your truck is very good example for me. The road salt is our biggest enermy here. Then 15 years old car is the oldest I will keep. 

I think spending up to $1000/year for old cars in important maintenance is worth it to keep it for few more years. It's just matter of safety in 10~15+ years old car. 

I wonder if anyone in Ottawa/Toronto who never had to change brake lines and never had brake lines failure for over 12 years and if they changed their brake fluid during that time. 

"Apply the brake a couple times and you won't notice anything wrong.."
I thought the brake line system has dual circuit. If one circuit loses pressure, the second is still temporarily functional? Did you notice a gradual lost of brake power? Is there brake warning light appeared on the driver screen ?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

namelessone said:


> @RBull
> 
> Not changing the brake fluid for 12 years? Wow! But brake lines lasted 12 years without changing brake fluid is not bad at all. The problems with moisture are lower boiling point and corrosion to caliper and brake lines.


it was 98 model, so when the front to back line "split", it was 12 years old. I'm sure the manual said recommended to change the brake fluid every 2-3 years or 30,000Km intervals.
After the warranty expired, I either worked on maintenance items myself, such as brake pad replacement/wheel bearing hub replacement or took it into a local garage only if it
was underneath the truck.
I never changed the brake fluid, so the water contamination after 12 years may have had a lot to do with it...but I was lucky when the front to back steel brake line finally failed,
luckily I wasn't at high speed, just starting to slow down at a off ramp. 




> They say: "After only a year of service, the brake fluid in the average vehicle may contain as much as two percent water. After 18 months, the level of contamination can be as high as three percent. And after several years of service, it is not unusual to find brake fluid that contains as much as seven to eight percent water."


Yes, and here is an article to confirm that and provide more information on that "out of sight'-out of mind" fluid that is ignored, not changed or checked as often as oil, antifreeze, transmission fluid or transaxle/differential fluid. Most owners, such as myself would check the transparent reservoir and add fluid when necessary, but bleeding the lines requires taking it into a service station to do it properly, (traditionally fluid bleeding at each wheel cylinder), or getting a Mityvac and maybe other tools to do it properly. 
http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm



> As a frugal person, I am not going to ask the mechanic to bleed the brake lines every 2 years. I am using a lazy DIY way to do it by using fluid extractor (Mityvac 7201) to suck out the fluid in the reservoir and replace with fresh fluid. Drive it for 1 week and do it again. It takes just couple minutes each time. Do this once a year. I think it's sufficient to achieve 70% of effectiveness compared with bleeding the whole brake lines. If the moisture can travel so fast in just 2 year, it won't take long for the moisture to spread to the reservoir and reduce the moisture content in the brake lines. So hopefully, by partially changing the brake fluids, the *brake lines have a higher chance of living more than 12 years.*


It all depends on the environment that the vehicle is driven in and parked. Heated garages can accelerate brake line rusting in the wintertime when there is road salt underneath and the lines are wet.




> I wonder if anyone in Ottawa/Toronto who never had to change brake lines and never had brake lines failure for over 12 years and if they changed their brake fluid during that time.
> 
> "Apply the brake a couple times and you won't notice anything wrong.."
> I thought the brake line system has dual circuit.* If one circuit loses pressure, the second is still temporarily functional? Did you notice a gradual lost of brake power?* Is there brake warning light appeared on the driver screen ?


Funny that you mention that. 

The OEM Chrysler master cylinder has " reservoir fluid equalizing port" between the front and rear brake systems in the plastic reservoir that sits on the top of 
the metal master cylinder. 

I was always under the impression that if the front brakes failed, I would have the rear brake system to provide some partial brake operation, (or vice versa)...BUT..
this was NOT the case when my front to back brake line split. After the first application of the pedal, pretty much most of the fluid in the reservoir escaped in the split line.
The second application drained ALL the fluid in the Master cylinder and it was sucking air. 

When I managed to stop the vehicle, open the hood, *take the cap off the reservoir..it was EMPTY! * *Both braking systems! * 
This to me was BAD CHRYSLER ENGINEERING to allow this to happen, as I had owned GM vehicles before that had true separate systems reservoirs and not this "brake fluid equalizing design" where fluid from the front system can flow into the back system until the reservoir is empty.


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## AirPro (Mar 31, 2014)

I would stick with regular inspection and replacement as/if required. Follow the manufacturer recommendation for fluid replacements. Brake fluid replacement can be a bit contentious with manufacturers recommending change intervals varying between 2 years and never. I tend replace it when I replace pads/rotors or at least every 5 years. Many vehicles can have places in the lines that are more susceptible to corrosion purely due to positioning and exposure so make sure you inspect the entire length. Google for such "hot spots" on your vehicle.



namelessone said:


> I am using a lazy DIY way to do it by using fliud extractor (Mityvac 7201) to suck out the fluid in the resevoir and replace with fresh fluid. Drive it for 1 week and do it again. It takes just couple minutes each time. Do this once a year. I think it's sufficient to acheive 70% of effectivenss compared with bleeding the whole brake lines.


Are you serious? You've gone to the expense of investing in a fluid extractor so why not put an additional few bucks into the brake bleeder accessory and do it properly? The extra effort required is negligible.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

carverman said:


> ^^^^^
> The lines can look good on surface inspection. but there could be a spot of rust where the lines are clipped to the body or frame as in my case.


This is a key point where the lines fail. I don't know the specific vehicle, but there are different grades of brake line. Some have factory protective coating, some not. In order to inspect, those clips need to removed or moved a bit so the tubing under the clamp can be observed. I did that on one of my much older cars. I cleaned and painted the tubing after cleaning with POR-15 rust preventative paint (CT sells it). At the age of the car, steel lines should not need replacing so soon, but that depends on what materials Hyundai used and on the conditions car has been operated under.

I _would_ replace the flexible brake hoses at each wheel. They should be done when pads are replaced. Or maybe at every second pad change. The hoses may look OK, but the inner liner can deteriorate and block the fluid passage. A fluid flush at same time is also recommended.

You might want to join the forum and read this:
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/lc-2000-2005-accent/133446-rust-belt-owners-inspect-brake-lines.html


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I work as a mechanic,get an opinion for work,most likely will not need anything


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

AirPro said:


> I would stick with regular inspection and replacement as/if required. Follow the manufacturer recommendation for fluid replacements. Brake fluid replacement can be a bit contentious with manufacturers recommending change intervals varying between 2 years and never. I tend replace it when I replace pads/rotors or at least every 5 years. Many vehicles can have places in the lines that are more susceptible to corrosion purely due to positioning and exposure so make sure you inspect the entire length. Google for such "hot spots" on your vehicle.
> 
> 
> Are you serious? You've gone to the expense of investing in a fluid extractor so why not put an additional few bucks into the brake bleeder accessory and do it properly? The extra effort required is negligible.


It depends on the quality of brake lines used on the production vehicles. Some models are better than other. In my case, I'm not sure if it was exterior rust or the inside corrosion
of water in the brakefluid, as water needs also needs air to start corrosion inside steel lines, and that isn't going to happen inside a sealed braking system.

However, I have seen in the past, pitted iron wheel cylinders so there may be other components of DOT3/DOT4 fluid that when heated up to the maximum fluid operating point, 350C, it breaks down and corrodes iron or steel lines. 

Draining at the fluid in each wheel (calipers or wheel cylinders) take a LOT of new brake fluid to replace the old stuff and it's messy. 

It can be a DIY on your driveway with the vehicle jacked up, but hard to get at the bleeding screw/valves,
and in some cases those bleeding screws are seized and not easy to open, requiring changing the caliper or the wheel cylinder.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

carverman said:


> Draining at the fluid in each wheel (calipers or wheel cylinders) take a LOT of new brake fluid to replace the old stuff and it's messy.


Next time try using a hose and catch can!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

No comments yet on heater and coolant hoses but they bear inspection at the 2nd antifreeze flush and refill schedule whenever that is for your vehicle. Some have 4 year cycles, some 5 year cycles. The mechanic doing the flush and refill should be able to see softness, cracks and bulges in the hoses and recommend replacement if there is any material sign of age/weakness. Bear in mind that if not done on the 2nd cycle, it is another 4-5 years to the next flush and refill cycle and that may well be too long on an original set of hoses.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Inspect brake lines, bend them, if they are cracked replace them. While you are under there, inspect the hard lines for rust. If they are rusty they will need replacing sooner or later. Don't overlook the hidden spots, they love to rust out where you can't see them, inside the frame or behind a bracket, that gets packed with wet mud.

Check brake pads and make sure calipers are moving freely. Take off, clean and lube if necessary.

Under the hood inspect for cracked, mummified, or bulging lines hoses and belts. Replace as necessary. Probably won't be necessary until they are more than 10 years old.

If you want rad hoses, heater hoses that last forever use silicone. You can order them from Gates by adding S in front of the part number. Cost about twice as much as standard hoses.

Most important, maintain it by the book. The book I am referring to, is the owner's manual in the glove compartment. It includes factory recommendations for service. Do what it says, and don't let any uninformed person sell you service you don't need.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I bleed my brakes about every 2 years. It takes about a liter of fluid which is cheap (around $15) and with a $15 Lisle brake bleed kit from Princess Auto it is definitely a DIY project. The Jippy Lube places do it too but charge excessively (~$100 I think) for that service along with differential fluid changes. Doing this also ensures the brake calipers don't rust up or pit inside which makes them fail and reduce braking effectiveness. I've never replaced the flexible brake lines - they always looked good (on the outside anyway).

I also change the serpentine belt every 5 years. They do crack and could fail - and I keep the old one in the trunk incase the one in use fails but they do require a ratchet to take the tension off to allow replacement - but also an easy DIY project. I also change the idler pulley bearings. I had one fail once and it tore the belt up and left my wife stranded on the side of the road. They whole pulley can be replaced for more $$ - but all that is needed is the bearing really. I listen for whining of these pulleys and feel for grinding on their bearings when the belt is off.


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