# I had a long chat with a TD rep yesterday (poor girl)...



## dBII (Mar 12, 2013)

She and her supervisor were actually relatively understanding and seemed to agree with me.

I have a TD All-Inclusive chequing account and have maintained the minimum balance for over five years, thus I never seen a bank fee charge. Well, last month, TD increased their monthly fees and lo and behold, there was a $1.95 bank charge on my US dollar borderless account, since it seems the increase isn't fully covered by the rebate any longer. I wasn't in dispute about the increase in fees, but I am in dispute about the fact that they call the account "All-Inclusive" when it is actually no longer "All-Inclusive". That seems to me to be more than a change in service fees, that is a change in the terms of our original contract.

I would like to know if anyone else feels the same way.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

dBII said:


> She and her supervisor were actually relatively understanding and seemed to agree with me.
> 
> I have a TD All-Inclusive chequing account and have maintained the minimum balance for over five years, thus I never seen a bank fee charge. Well, last month, TD increased their monthly fees and lo and behold, there was a $1.95 bank charge on my US dollar borderless account, since it seems the increase isn't fully covered by the rebate any longer. I wasn't in dispute about the increase in fees, but I am in dispute about the fact that they call the account "All-Inclusive" when it is actually no longer "All-Inclusive". That seems to me to be more than a change in service fees, that is a change in the terms of our original contract.
> 
> I would like to know if anyone else feels the same way.


 I feel the same way. TD is just going for a cash grab. *I have an old fashioned TD value account.* I've been a TD customer since the mid 1990's. The value account used to be $3.95/month if you didn't keep a $1500 balance all month in your account. As of March 2/2015, they raised this to $2000 balance per month needed, in order to avoid paying the $3.95/month fee.

*This in my opinion, is a bad deal for the consumer, because you get absolutely Zero interest on this $2000.*

Therefore, TD is making $47.40/year off of me for basically doing nothing. Also in TDDirect discount brokerage, their only paying 1% on TDB 8150.

I guess TD has to make extra money somewhere? I actually complained to my local branch manager about the balance increase, (from $1500 to $2000), and got my account fees waived for 3 months. I saved myself $11.85 for speaking up---LOL


----------



## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

I closed my TD chequing a/c in March and opened TD savings a/c (1 free transaction per month, no fee, no minimum balance required). The reason I need to keep a TD a/c is to get my TDW money. There are lot of online banks, where you would get unlimited transactions.


----------



## bds (Aug 13, 2013)

Yep, I was annoyed with this too. The rep refunded the charge when I closed the account because of it (I very rarely used it).

That put me one step closer to going with Tangerine(or similar). I need to calculate how much I'm actually getting for maintaining the minimum "all-inclusive" balance, then decide.


----------



## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

I pay zero fees, and I always wonder why people do. In fact, my credit union pays ME to give them my money.

Look elsewhere!


----------



## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Changing your bank is a collosal pain. I took me almost two months to get automatic deposits and withdrawals switched over. But IMHO, it is so worth it not to have to pay these mysterious and ever-changing fees.


----------



## dBII (Mar 12, 2013)

That's why I really don't want to leave TD. In general, I've been happy with them. My point isn't about the $1.95. My point is, how can TD continue to call this an "All-Inclusive" account when they can arbitrarily decide to no longer be all-inclusive? It is also a slippery slope, since it sets a future precedent that allows them to do this on other account perks later. I understand fully that TD has a right to increase fees, but they don't have the right to change the overall terms of the account that was the basis for me signing up in the first place.


----------



## tendim (Nov 18, 2010)

Squash500 said:


> *This in my opinion, is a bad deal for the consumer, because you get absolutely Zero interest on this $2000.*
> 
> Therefore, TD is making $47.40/y


But that is the wrong way to look at it; if you look at it in terms of opportunity costs, it is better. I am in a similar situation with BMO: I have to keep $1,500 in the account, or get hit with a $11.95 service charge. Options:


Leave $1,500 in there; save the $11.95, and gain no interest
Invest the money in a HISA, receive 1-2% interest, and pay $11.95

1-2% interest on $1,500 is only $30 (at 2%) _per year_. But that $11.95 is costing me $143.40 per year, which means my net income is -$113.40. I would rather have a gain of $0.00 vs. a loss of $113.40.

Banks have to make the money somehow. $1,500 per account over, say, 1,000 customers is $1,500,000; the bank will invest that at the overnight rate and make some money in the overnight market, to fund everything else. I'm happy to have it sit there and be paid implicit interest through dividends. Obviously it would be better to not have to do this at all (i.e., you don't need to keep the $1,500 in there), but if choosing between two available options, I'll take the dividends.


----------



## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Life is too short to get worked up about account term changes.

I flipped my TD US$ account type from Borderless to regular chequing. I did it online with a few mouse clicks. Took me less than a minute to do it. Regular chequing account doesn't have a monthly fee. OTOH, it charges per-transactions fees. This is fine with me because I rarely use this account.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

tendim said:


> But that is the wrong way to look at it; if you look at it in terms of opportunity costs, it is better. I am in a similar situation with BMO: I have to keep $1,500 in the account, or get hit with a $11.95 service charge. Options:
> 
> 
> Leave $1,500 in there; save the $11.95, and gain no interest
> ...


Excellent post. This makes me realize that TD and BMO will never go broke. They will always make money somehow. Let's say that TD has 6 Million customers in Canada (just as an example). TD will make a fortune investing this money. $2000 (at a minimum) x 6 million accounts. My TD savings account is the cheapest one they have. I can just imagine the profit that TD makes on the more expensive savings accounts that they offer.

Wendi1 is also 100% correct, that's it's a total pain to change bank accounts (due to direct deposits etc). I'm also generally happy with TD as well.


----------



## Squash500 (May 16, 2009)

dBII said:


> That's why I really don't want to leave TD. In general, I've been happy with them. My point isn't about the $1.95. *My point is, how can TD continue to call this an "All-Inclusive" account when they can arbitrarily decide to no longer be all-inclusive? It is also a slippery slope, since it sets a future precedent that allows them to do this on other account perks later. I understand fully that TD has a right to increase fees, but they don't have the right to change the overall terms of the account that was the basis for me signing up in the first place.*


*
*

That's a good point. I guess TD is hoping that most customers won't even notice what they're doing.


----------



## Getafix (Dec 29, 2014)

I've got $5k in my all inclusive and $3k in my borderless account, i figure it's a good thing to have some cash lying around for emergencies. The rest is all invested.


----------



## janus10 (Nov 7, 2013)

I wouldn't put up with it. I'd give them an opportunity to address my concerns, but take my business elsewhere should they be unable.

I have gone to All Inclusive vacation resorts and not once has everything been included. If halfway through the vacation they changed the rules (I am sorry, but there is now a daily charge for pool towels) I would be upset by the principle, more than the additional cost.

Oh, and whenever I run into a customer service rep, I always make sure to tell them that I am not upset with them, it is the company policy and I know that they can't make changes to the policy. I'm sure they're not thrilled having to listen to complaints many times a day.


----------



## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> Life is too short to get worked up about account term changes.
> 
> I flipped my TD US$ account type from Borderless to regular chequing. I did it online with a few mouse clicks. Took me less than a minute to do it. Regular chequing account doesn't have a monthly fee. OTOH, it charges per-transactions fees. This is fine with me because I rarely use this account.


give me some instruction please !


----------



## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

larry81 said:


> give me some instruction please !


In EasyWeb:

Select Borderless account to view account activity.
Look in the box on the left hand side, under Personal Accounts.
There should be a link there called "Change Account Type".
Click the link.
Fill out the form.

ADDED: the new account type you want to select is called "US$ Daily Interest Chequing Account". Daily Interest!!! LOL.


----------



## banjopete (Feb 4, 2014)

scorpion_ca said:


> I closed my TD chequing a/c in March and opened TD savings a/c (1 free transaction per month, no fee, no minimum balance required). The reason I need to keep a TD a/c is to get my TDW money. There are lot of online banks, where you would get unlimited transactions.


I opened an account just to use TDDI after being told this was required by the nice lady at the bank. Turns out you don't, I bank elsewhere to avoid fees but i started out with their e-series stuff so opened a TDDI account with them a few years back. I can send money in and out with my other bank, so TD gets no fees from me other than those associated with my investments.


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Squash500 said:


> [/B]That's a good point. I guess TD is hoping that most customers won't even notice what they're doing.


I am sure they had to notify all customers with this account of the upcoming changes ahead of time. If they didn't, that is what would really piss me off.


----------



## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> ADDED: the new account type you want to select is called "US$ Daily Interest Chequing Account". Daily Interest!!! LOL.


Thanks GoldStone, i switched account type today !


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> That put me one step closer to going with Tangerine(or similar). I need to calculate how much I'm actually getting for maintaining the minimum "all-inclusive" balance, then decide.


 We don't pay any fees at all as we have staff account... but I don't understand why people don't switch for example to PCF... free cheques, no any minimum balance and much higher rates 



> TD has a right to increase fees


 sure, higher rate, higher dividends 

Long TD


----------



## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

larry81 said:


> Thanks GoldStone, i switched account type today !


Just keep in mind, they charge $1.25 for each debit transaction.


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> Just keep in mind, they charge $1.25 for each debit transaction.


I thought that was waived if you had over $1500 balance....


----------

