# Non-smart flat screen TVs



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Just wanted to share that I noticed, since December, many of the older style "dumb" or non-smart flat screen LED or LCD TVs have been on sale. I mean "dumb" as opposed to the fancy "smart" TVs.

As the market shifts to all smart TVs, these simple LCD TVs are being phased out and cleared out. Earlier this month I picked up a 40" generic brand TV for about $250 and it works great. I watch it using a Roku for Netflix.

If you have a regular cable TV subscription with a digital box, you don't need a smart TV. You just hook your cable box's HDMI to any of these regular TVs and you're ready to go.

The smart TVs are supposed to connect to the internet, and let people use streaming services like Netflix and Crave. However (from what I've seen) many of these TVs don't have the best streaming or control interfaces, and you're basically stuck with that software forever. Personally I don't like that. Instead, if you use a non-smart TV, you have more flexibility to connect anything to it.

Things you can connect to a non-smart TV are:

a cable TV box, if it has HDMI output
Roku, for streaming services
Amazon Fire TV stick, for streaming
Chromecast, for streaming and screen sharing


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

To each his/her own. We decided to move up from 2008/2009 technology and went for the home run with LG's OLED technology since we want a fair bit of streaming here along with live sports, etc. The available apps definitely go through updates from time to time via something called WebOS. Hoping to get 10 years out of this setup as well.


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## smihaila (Apr 6, 2009)

james4beach said:


> [...]
> Things you can connect to a non-smart TV are:
> 
> a cable TV box, if it has HDMI output
> ...


... or a "home theater" PC build. That's what I'm using with my 2010-era Sony Bravia 42'' EX5 lcd "dumb" TV. I hope it'll still last on me for several years more.
If a time to get a new one comes, it'll still be a "dumb" TV, for the very same reasons you've just mentioned.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> To each his/her own. We decided to move up from 2008/2009 technology and went for the home run with LG's OLED technology since we want a fair bit of streaming here along with live sports, etc. The available apps definitely go through updates from time to time via something called WebOS. Hoping to get 10 years out of this setup as well.


That works too for sure, if you're happy with the software loaded on the TV. It's just that I've seen a few of these units, among my friends, and in hotels I've stayed at... I just never fell in love with any of them myself.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

There are many ways to do it, in TV or external. If you have any fairly good smart phone (or tablet), load the apps you use and use chromecast, works very well. I was using a friend's Smart TV tonight with voice control ... works well enough, took me right to the show and episode. Also note on the Smart TVs you still download the apps, just like on your phone.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

smihaila said:


> ... or a "home theater" PC build. That's what I'm using with my 2010-era Sony Bravia 42'' EX5 lcd "dumb" TV. I hope it'll still last on me for several years more.
> If a time to get a new one comes, it'll still be a "dumb" TV, for the very same reasons you've just mentioned.


Good option, the PC. Are you using something like an Intel NUC?

Additional side note. These modern TVs that can do at least 1080p can even be pretty amazing as computer monitors. I hooked my 40" up to my laptop and was amazed at how good it looks, just as a computer monitor at 1920x1080. Clearly it's too large for daily use but it's an option to keep in mind for something like gaming perhaps, could be really fun for the right purpose.


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## smihaila (Apr 6, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Good option, the PC. Are you using something like an Intel NUC?


It's a uATX mobo, with a SilverStone low profile case, with win7 (I hate win10 because feels more like a prison, going the same route as apple). Mainly using if for watching movies, and general internet activities. Really nothing special about it, other than an nVidia GT 1030 (bought on ebay) with passive cooling (excellent for hardware-assisted H.264 video decoding via LAV filters) and an Asus Xonar DS for realtime DTS audio conversion. Spinning hdd for plenty of space for my movies (using a small SSD only for win7 boot-up). The CPU is quite ancient (Q9650 quad).


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

I purchased a small non-smart flat screen tv for me when Target was in Ontario, its still running


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

I find the firestick 4k UI is alot better than what's built in in "smart" TVs.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Anyone hook up a fire stick or roku to an older TV without HDMI? I‘ve got a 50” Sony Wega with DVI and Digital Optical audio.

I’ve seen “converters” on YouTube but after buying a converter, the fire stick or roku, I’m probably well on my way towards the cost of a budget smart TV.


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## AlwaysLearning (Dec 8, 2017)

I prefer Chromecast with Google TV. I bought a couple when they came with 6 months free Netflix. Nice to be able to replace the "smarts" for your home entertainment setup. One is connected to a 15 year old 55" sony TV and the other is connected to a receiver that drives my home theatre (projector). I also have an older chromecast device on a TV the kids use to stream shows in their play room which still works great. (but then requires another device phone tablet etc. to control)

You can even side load apps of your own if you have any other streaming options which are not part of the regular google play store.


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## cliffsecord (Jan 10, 2020)

I find the best combination is a dumb tv with CEC and fire stick or chromecast with google tv. Inevitably your smart tv will not update or will become slow. At that point you can update it with a fire stick or chromecast.

On the fire stick and chromecast I installed a YouTube client that removes the ads.


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## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I use multiple devices to stream web content to out TV(s). Home media server, Denon receiver, laptop, iPad, cell phone, etc. Which one I use typically depends on the content and if I want full theatre sound, whole home audio, etc.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> Anyone hook up a fire stick or roku to an older TV without HDMI? I‘ve got a 50” Sony Wega with DVI and Digital Optical audio.
> 
> I’ve seen “converters” on YouTube but after buying a converter, the fire stick or roku, I’m probably well on my way towards the cost of a budget smart TV.


The problem with HDMI to DVI on your TV is no audio. It could work if you had an HDMI AV receiver with RCA audio outputs going to the TV.


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

I don't knock them for trying to add value to their panels. But I buy the panel for picture quality. The new OLEDs are stunning.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

I'm still watching my 20+ year old CRT TV on a rooftop antenna. Works fine.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

james4beach said:


> Just wanted to share that I noticed, since December, many of the older style "dumb" or non-smart flat screen LED or LCD TVs have been on sale. I mean "dumb" as opposed to the fancy "smart" TVs.
> 
> As the market shifts to all smart TVs, these simple LCD TVs are being phased out and cleared out. Earlier this month I picked up a 40" generic brand TV for about $250 and it works great. I watch it using a Roku for Netflix.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have both and the old style TV with Roku is superior.


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## BC Eddie (Feb 2, 2014)

It is not just access to content it is the quality of that content that matters. We switched to LG OLED (but other brands also have HDR) tech about 4 years ago and one of the things that really impressed us was HDR (High Dynamic Response). If you get used to watching such content (Netflix and Amazon Prime both offer at a premium rate) you well not want to go back. 4K and 8K get the news but the rich, accurate colours and light intensity cannot be described; you need to see in "real" life to appreciate it.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

BC Eddie said:


> It is not just access to content it is the quality of that content that matters.


Yeah, I have a "72" semi-smart TV" in my living room that has apps like Netflix and Youtube on it, but I can't update any of those app like the new fully smart TV's can, so when I got Disney+ I had to get a ROKU to stream the Disney+ signal.

I find the ROKU fantastic. Disney+ works great, but when I compare Netfix on ROKU to the Netfix app on the TV, I can see how much better it is on the ROKU.

ltr


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

BC Eddie said:


> It is not just access to content it is the quality of that content that matters. We switched to LG OLED (but other brands also have HDR) tech about 4 years ago and one of the things that really impressed us was HDR (High Dynamic Response). If you get used to watching such content (Netflix and Amazon Prime both offer at a premium rate) you well not want to go back. 4K and 8K get the news but the rich, accurate colours and light intensity cannot be described; you need to see in "real" life to appreciate it.


Streamed some 4k content the other day, it was ok but not much viewing difference (we switched between the two) over 1080p. Would like to see a top of the line 4K HDR movie and compare on a higher end 4K OLED. I did read the surround sound audio quality on streaming is not quite up to par but as long as it's close to disc I'd be happy. My plasma is aging so I'll likely be looking for an OLED panel to replace it in the years ahead, very happy with the plasma picture.


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

My sister was dumping out an old 55” that quit working a few days earlier…. I saw it was gonna go to the dump and grabbed it. I took out the power board, paid a guy $75, he fixed it, and now I have a $75 55” TV !!!! Thats extra, I dont need it but it works and is just sitting behind my couch….

hmmmm


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## kcowan2000 (Mar 24, 2020)

We have 2 Firesticks that we move from PV to VCR twice a year. Netflix, YouTube, CinemaHD and OlaTV. Our Displays are 3x Samsung Smart and an LG WebOS. The Qleds are superior because of our high ambient lighting. We don't use the TV remotes. Going into year four.

I also have Bluestacks on the laptop for when we travel again.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

For me, picture quality is number 1. Our tv's are not smart tvs and whenever I've used smart tvs, scrolling and finding things has been slow and a hastle.
chromecast for us is the most seamless.
I do have some bluetooth headset and transmitter so I can listen at a good volume without waking everyone up at night.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

kcowan2000 said:


> We have 2 Firesticks that we move from PV to VCR twice a year. Netflix, YouTube, CinemaHD and OlaTV. Our Displays are 3x Samsung Smart and an LG WebOS. The Qleds are superior because of our high ambient lighting. We don't use the TV remotes. Going into year four.


Can one use a Firestick without an Amazon account (or without prime)? For example could you use this purely for Netflix without any kind of Amazon sign-on?


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## cliffsecord (Jan 10, 2020)

I don’t have a prime account and it works just fine. My recommendation is to at least get the 4K version, not for the 4K but for the faster CPU. Also be aware that the fire stick has no Bluetooth volume but the google tv does. This is important for people who use ear buds that have no volume control.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

cliffsecord said:


> I don’t have a prime account and it works just fine. My recommendation is to at least get the 4K version, not for the 4K but for the faster CPU. Also be aware that the fire stick has no Bluetooth volume but the google tv does. This is important for people who use ear buds that have no volume control.


Yeah the more powerful CPU makes sense. I bought the more basic Roku (only $25) and it does fine with most video, but when it tries to pump out the highest resolution stuff there some loss in smoothness. Probably because it's not the top end CPU.

I don't really watch high resolution stuff anyway. I only pay $10 per month for "basic" Netflix at the lower resolution. The price hasn't gone up for years. The reality is that from a distance, it all looks the same. And people seem to have forgotten that even DVD quality, which we all loved just a few years ago, is 480p which is not even "HD quality".

I have a whole bunch of bit torrent movie downloads from many years ago, all at 480p from DVD rips. They're perfectly good.

But the industry sure makes a lot of money by convincing people that they need extremely high resolutions, and then supplying all the bandwidth, high-tier streaming services, and equipment to make it happen. All so you can see the individual hairs on James Bond's head?

Truth is, you can have a perfectly good video streaming experience even with rock bottom price internet services (5 Mbps or 10 Mbps), a cheap TV, and Netflix at $10/month.

When you browse the internet and read people's opinion on streaming services, resolution and TVs, you will see endless complaints that images look like crap unless they are at the highest resolution imaginable. Perfect consumer behaviour... eagerly buying up whatever you are told is the latest and greatest. Frankly I would still happily watch movies on old VHS tapes, they look perfectly fine to me.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

^ Except that when 480p was the standard, TVs typically measured 30" or less. At that size, the picture looked perfectly fine from the couch. TVs have gotten a lot bigger since then, but we haven't moved our furniture to compensate. Rooms don't magically grow larger, and besides, who wants to sit further away? Except that now 480p looks like crap on a 50" TV when you sit in the same spot where you used to watch your 30" TV. That said, I still think that 4K is mainly a marketing gimmick unless you have a gigantic TV. 1080p looks great on my 50" plasma. I've looked at 4K sets in stores and you really don't notice the resolution unless you're way closer than you would sit in real life.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> I don't really watch high resolution stuff anyway. I only pay $10 per month for "basic" Netflix at the lower resolution. The price hasn't gone up for years. The reality is that from a distance, it all looks the same.


True, watching on 24' TV from 30 feet away looks pretty much the same. 



james4beach said:


> And people seem to have forgotten that even DVD quality, which we all loved just a few years ago, is 480p which is not even "HD quality".


Just a few years .... HD has been out for over 15 years, actually I didn't realize how long it's been. It's not just the resolution but also the color and sound. I can still enjoy an old DVD movie but given the choice, I'll watch it in HD. Once I got my home theater setup I have not stepped foot into a movie theater.


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## kcowan2000 (Mar 24, 2020)

With CinemHD, I can select quality dynamically and often 480 looks great on a 65" TV because the TV up shifts it. That enables us to select less popular feeds if the 1024?are busy and buffering.


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## HappilyRetired (Nov 14, 2021)

nathan79 said:


> ^ Except that when 480p was the standard, TVs typically measured 30" or less. At that size, the picture looked perfectly fine from the couch. TVs have gotten a lot bigger since then, but we haven't moved our furniture to compensate. Rooms don't magically grow larger, and besides, who wants to sit further away? Except that now 480p looks like crap on a 50" TV when you sit in the same spot where you used to watch your 30" TV. That said, I still think that 4K is mainly a marketing gimmick unless you have a gigantic TV. 1080p looks great on my 50" plasma. I've looked at 4K sets in stores and you really don't notice the resolution unless you're way closer than you would sit in real life.


We sit 8' - 9' away from a 65" TV. Shows in 480 have noticeably poor picture quality. 1080 looks fine and is "good enough" for now. We have friends with 4K and can tell the picture quality difference between that and our 1080.

We'll eventually get a 4K TV but it's not a high priority. I'd like to go to an 80" - 85" but the prices need to come down enough to the point I can justify the purchase price.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

HappilyRetired said:


> We sit 8' - 9' away from a 65" TV. Shows in 480 have noticeably poor picture quality. 1080 looks fine and is "good enough" for now. We have friends with 4K and can tell the picture quality difference between that and our 1080.
> 
> We'll eventually get a 4K TV but it's not a high priority. I'd like to go to an 80" - 85" but the prices need to come down enough to the point I can justify the purchase price.


What programming is available in 4K?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> What programming is available in 4K?


Lots of streaming services offer streaming in 4K. 








Where to Watch the Best 4K Content: Netflix, HBO, Amazon | Digital Trends


Searching for something to watch on your new 4K TV? Look no further. This list highlights the best places to find 4K and HDR content, both on-demand and live.




www.digitaltrends.com





Having said that, we have a 4K TV, but we don't pay for the higher tier of Netflix because we find the quality at the normal tier to be perfectly fine. We don't subscribe to any other streamers.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I thought you really have to go out of your way to find a 'dumb' TV. Some people are concerned about their smart TVs 'phoning home' with advertising and other potentially privacy violating concerns. One way to solve that issue is not give your smart TV network access and use a media centre PC, or other device (fire stick, Roku etc.). I personally have a smart TV where I rarely use the smart features. I use a laptop connected via HDMI as a media centre PC and use a wireless logitech keyboard/trackpad as my 'remote'.


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## BC Eddie (Feb 2, 2014)

I have to stress again the incredible improvement going to HDR makes. To me it was almost like going from standard broadcast to HD. HDR does not mean a change in resolution but the range of colours and light intensity make such a big difference. 

To appreciate the difference you need to see it in real-life. Go to a quality TV showroom and ask for a demonstration. (If it is an LG vendor ask for the Chess demo - it will knock your socks off!) Not sure why the manufacturers don't market it more.

Good site explaining the benefits of HDR








What Is HDR For TVs And Is It Worth It? [Ultimate 2022 Guide]


What exactly is HDR (High Dynamic Range) for TVs and is it worth it? Should you be looking for a TV that features HDR and which type of HDR is best?




www.displayninja.com





Here is site that shows where to find some of this content








How to find 4K HDR content on Netflix and Amazon Prime Video


Finding 4K HDR content on Netflix and Amazon Prime Video isn't straightforward. Here's how to find 4K HDR content on both services




www.trustedreviews.com


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

BC Eddie said:


> I have to stress again the incredible improvement going to HDR makes. To me it was almost like going from standard broadcast to HD. HDR does not mean a change in resolution but the range of colours and light intensity make such a big difference.


Honestly I haven't seen a significant difference yet with HDR. Will be watching another movie tonight. Any common new(er) movies you care to suggest that really show off HDR?



BC Eddie said:


> To appreciate the difference you need to see it in real-life. Go to a quality TV showroom and ask for a demonstration. (If it is an LG vendor ask for the Chess demo - it will knock your socks off!) Not sure why the manufacturers don't market it more.


I'd much rather see the content I watch than a vendor demo. It's the same as for speakers, you need to listen to the music you like and how it sounds. Best to buy from a place where you can return the TV if it doesn't work at home on your own content.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Might as well share my viewing setup in case it's useful to anyone. I watch non-HD content and use Netflix basic, the cheapest one, which is 480p.

Things look fine to me. 40" TV viewed from 7 feet

Sometimes I watch full 1080p content and sure, it looks a bit better, but really not noticeable unless I step closer. Perhaps if I had a much larger TV like you people with the giant houses, I would need higher resolution.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

james4beach said:


> Things look fine to me. 40" TV viewed from 7 feet
> 
> Sometimes I watch full 1080p content and sure, it looks a bit better, but really not noticeable unless I step closer. Perhaps if I had a much larger TV like you people with the giant houses, I would need higher resolution.


Seven feet for a 40" is a bit far, both for higher resolution and field of view, 5' better. The quality of the TV, the source material and how it is setup (video settings) play a big role in seeing the differences. 

Some people don't really care. I know some with expensive big TVs that run them on vivid which makes for totally unrealistic images. I mean would you enjoy the movie Gladiator when it looks like Russel Crowe is wearing a bright shade of lip stick?  

Side note: Watched Free Guy last night and compared HD vs 4K HDR streams. The 4K HDR was much better though the colors were pushed a little too hot in some scenes IMO.


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## kcowan2000 (Mar 24, 2020)

I remember watching Shaw a Direct on a 50" plasma 10"years ago, and our friend was so impressed with the nature show that she went out and bough a smart tv. This was in PV.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

andrewf said:


> I thought you really have to go out of your way to find a 'dumb' TV ...


I can't remember the last time I saw a 'dumb' TV for sale.
Hopefully my 2010 'dumb' TV that does 1080p keeps chugging along for years to come. I think I gave away my 1999 Sony TV around 2017.


Cheers


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## BC Eddie (Feb 2, 2014)

cainvest said:


> Honestly I haven't seen a significant difference yet with HDR. Will be watching another movie tonight. Any common new(er) movies you care to suggest that really show off HDR?
> 
> .



You will not get HDR (at least on Netflix) unless you subscribe to the highest level plan. Amazon Prime does have some HDR content in their standard plan.

I suggest going to a store to view as they will have the demo files that demonstrate the full potential of this tech.

More info re the Netflix plan levels. 





How to watch Netflix in Dolby Vision or HDR10


You can stream Netflix in Dolby Vision or HDR10 on supported devices




help.netflix.com




).


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## BC Eddie (Feb 2, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Might as well share my viewing setup in case it's useful to anyone. I watch non-HD content and use Netflix basic, the cheapest one, which is 480p.
> 
> Things look fine to me. 40" TV viewed from 7 feet
> 
> Sometimes I watch full 1080p content and sure, it looks a bit better, but really not noticeable unless I step closer. Perhaps if I had a much larger TV like you people with the giant houses, I would need higher resolution.



The irony is that the higher the resolution the closer you may want to sit in order to appreciate the detail you can now see.









Perfecting Proximity: Finding The Optimal TV Viewing Distance | Audio Video Unlimited


Is bigger always better? There's always been a sense of pride and accomplishment when purchasing a 50" or larger screen. While larger screens can help you see the image better, it's possible they may be overkill when used in smaller rooms. When shopping for a new TV on sale, it…




www.avu.ca


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

BC Eddie said:


> You will not get HDR (at least on Netflix) unless you subscribe to the highest level plan. Amazon Prime does have some HDR content in their standard plan.
> 
> I suggest going to a store to view as they will have the demo files that demonstrate the full potential of this tech.


Watched on Disney Plus which supports HDR for many shows & movies. Demos are fun to look at but the real test is how it looks with content you regularly watch. As I mentioned in another reply, the movie Free Guy did show some nice improvement in HDR over regular HD.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

BC Eddie said:


> The irony is that the higher the resolution the closer you may want to sit in order to appreciate the detail you can now see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The problem with many sites is they don't consider FOV (field of view), just resolution which is not great IMO. Just like when going to a movie theater you don't want to sit to close or you are moving your head around to take it all in. 

I find the THX recommended screen distance (or slightly father) better to go by, which is optimized for a 36 degree FOV. 
Example:
Your link suggests 4 - 6.5 feet for a 50" TV on 4K.
THX suggests 5.6 feet optimal, 8 feet maximum for a 50" TV.

Of course one watches to how they like it, which it totally fine.


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