# Td waterhouse tax doc proceeds & cost are incorrect on my t5008.



## bayst_tycoon (Feb 19, 2017)

Hello everyone i am in the process of doing my taxes & notice their is a error with one stock on my t5008. Last year i traded the stock horizon crude oil bull from January to May & had a loss for $40,834.00. My total proceeds were $223,079.00 for that period but on my trade summary statement it says my cost were $188,164.00. Now according to these figures i should have a profit of $34,915. I have since checked my monthly statements & compared it to my trade summary & notice the trades are not accurate. Anyways if anyone has experience this & can share their advise i would appreciate it.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Could this be a US$ - Cdn$ conversion issue?
Was this a US$ stock that you traded in a Cdn$ account? 
The T5008 will report in US$ while your Cdn$ account statements would be showing converted to Cdn$.
The CRA requires you to use Cdn$ for your tax reporting.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

On my T5008 the cost column is completely blank for both my accounts. It seems strange that yours is filled in; I thought it was standard that TD does not fill in this field. Anyway, if you're certain you read the form correctly (maybe you can post a screenshot without the identifying information?), then I would contact TD to ask about whether they can issue a corrected version.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Spudd, yes that is my experience as well, the T5008 does not provide cost/BV - only proceeds, and in the original currency. 
My suggestion may not explain things, but I have also never seen an error, i.e. "trades are not accurate", so there is something being missed here.
As you suggest, a call to TDDI should solve it.


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## bayst_tycoon (Feb 19, 2017)

yes u are right the cost info is blank on the t5008 but it's on my trade summary statement. My account is only cad funds so it's not a conversion issue. i will be contacting them tomorrow.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

You can also pull the individual trade confirmations and check those to see if they match.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There is something else going on that the OP has not clarified. How many buys/sells for that stock? What does the sum of the buys and the sum of the sells per the Annual Trading Summary / Purchase and Sales Report say (assuming all buys and all sells took place in 2016? Any superficial losses?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Any superficial losses?


Yeah, this is what first crossed my mind when I read the OPs post. Five months trading in a single stock with proceeds of approximately a quarter million, I wondered about the 30 day rule, but didn't know if T5008 concerned itself with such details?

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't think the T5008 cares. I think it is merely a record of transactions.... since Cost Basis/ACB is not included in the first place.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Spudd said:
> 
> 
> > On my T5008 the cost column is completely blank for both my accounts. It seems strange that yours is filled in; I thought it was standard that TD does not fill in this field ...
> ...


Looking at a few of mine ... for the sell transactions - I see proceeds with no cost numbers. 

Where I see cost numbers are for buy transactions.


As I have indicated in other threads, I put the numbers from the confirmation/monthly statements into a spreadsheet that tracks the cost base for me. I typically don't use the T5008 for anything but a second source of transactions to confirm I haven't missed any transactions.


I only get the annual summary listing the buys/sells for the year which is marked "T5008" in the upper corner. I am not sure where it gets used but have have the following link on CRA's web site in the past, which is different.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t5008/README.html


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

bayst_tycoon said:


> yes u are right the cost info is blank on the t5008 but it's on my trade summary statement.


Not sure what you mean ... I get a T5008 with *is* the annual trade summary. 

The only way I know it's a T5008 is that it says so in the upper right hand corner. The body is a table that lists by each security each buy transaction (which has a cost) and each sell transaction (which has proceeds). The column headings are Date, Buy, Sell, Security Description, Price, Cost, Proceeds & Commission.

A buy has the Date, Buy, Security Description, Price, Cost & Commission filled out. A sell has Date, Sell, Security Description, Price, Proceeds & Commission filled out.

An underline separates the groupings of the transactions. Buy twice stock A then sell has the three transactions with the Security Description as "Stock A" then an underline then the stock B transactions.


Cheers

My account is only cad funds so it's not a conversion issue. i will be contacting them tomorrow.[/QUOTE]


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Eclectic12 said:


> Not sure what you mean ... I get a T5008 with *is* the annual trade summary.


TDDI in previous years supplied a Trading Summary as you indicate, and in the upper right hand corner it identified it as a T5008.

Starting this year (2016) they supplied the same Trading Summary, but didn't put the T5008 identifier in the upper right hand corner. 

Instead, in addition to the Trading Summary this year, they supplied an actual T5008 slip with boxes like a normal tax slip that shows only the sales of securities so the customer wouldn't have to sort them out of the Trading Summary (which shows all buys and sells). It makes it much quicker to identify your loses. This is what they are sending CRA now and I suppose it should match what you put on your tax return this year.

ltr


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## DavidW (May 27, 2016)

like_to_retire said:


> ...
> 
> Instead, in addition to the Trading Summary this year, they supplied an actual T5008 slip with boxes like a normal tax slip that shows only the sales of securities so the customer wouldn't have to sort them out of the Trading Summary (which shows all buys and sells). It makes it much quicker to identify your loses. This is what they are sending CRA now and I suppose it should match what you put on your tax return this year.
> 
> ltr


Not necessarily. Superficial losses carried forward may not show up on the tax return if they are still an active holding or were carried into the following year before disposition. Even superficial losses with ending disposition in the same year will tend to disappear.

I'm not sure how this slip will help CRA.


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## bayst_tycoon (Feb 19, 2017)

DavidW said:


> Not necessarily. Superficial losses carried forward may not show up on the tax return if they are still an active holding or were carried into the following year before disposition. Even superficial losses with ending disposition in the same year will tend to disappear.
> 
> I'm not sure how this slip will help CRA.



thank u David ur the only one who said something that made sense, yes it was the disposition not carrying over into the following year but showed as a proceed once i sold it. All i had to do was simply take the book value from 2015 & minus it from the proceed in 2016.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

bayst_tycoon said:


> thank u David ur the only one who said something that made sense, yes it was the disposition not carrying over into the following year but showed as a proceed once i sold it. All i had to do was simply take the book value from 2015 & minus it from the proceed in 2016.


With respect, I suggest this is a good example of why people need to be as clear as possible when posting questions. In replying to this particular post, a lot of replies were offered to try to help OP out, but everyone was really just guessing because of the lack of clarity.

In this post: _"their is a error with one stock on my t5008. Last year i traded the stock horizon crude oil bull from *January to May* & had a loss for $40,834.00. 
My total proceeds were $223,079.00 for that period but on my trade summary statement it says my cost were $188,164.00. 
Now according to these figures i should have a profit of $34,915. 
I have since checked my monthly statements & compared it to my trade summary & notice the trades are not accurate. 
Anyways if anyone has experience this & can share their advise i would appreciate it. _

To summarize:
J-M 2016 purchase at $188k (per trade statement).
J-M 2016 proceeds $223k (per T5008) - this would suggest $35k gain but should be a $41k loss? 

I'm afraid I don't read anything that suggests some position was bought in 2015, which as is pretty fundamental to tracking purchase details. 
Regardless, I guess there is nothing that mitigates losing $41k due to leveraged speculation on commodity (oil) prices.

I believe the lack of knowledge by retail investors and preponderance of related T1 mistakes is a big part of the reason the CRA is forcing brokers to report capital transactions in greater detail. Brokers don't always get it right and this creates its own set of challenges. But I suspect many will never notice - or will think the broker has made a mistake when in fact they haven't.


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## DavidW (May 27, 2016)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ...
> 
> I believe the lack of knowledge by retail investors and preponderance of related T1 mistakes is a big part of the reason the CRA is forcing brokers to report capital transactions in greater detail. Brokers don't always get it right and this creates its own set of challenges. But I suspect many will never notice - or will think the broker has made a mistake when in fact they haven't.


I believe a good portion of the reason for retail investors lacking knowledge is the guarding of knowledge by tribal groups out of both self interest and quid-pro-quo. It is only relatively recently I have seen easily available information on how to track ACB. For years there have been sales pitches encouraging people toward the use of RRSPs - they do have their place in an investors financial plan but have been over emphasized in my opinion. I know not everyone wants to do the work - that is a big practical benefit for encouraging the tax sheltered accounts.

This past week my trading account showed some yearly tax adjustments for the reporting of dividends received and I called complaining about some activity I believed to have never taken place - I was wrong and the broker right because I had forgotten I did have the holding in that account also at that time and my ACB tracking did show the disposition. The required adjustments themselves are not always readily available, some of them like the REITs I know happen each year, a major corporation also had adjustments I was not aware of as it was not expected and there had been no news release - I did find the info on their website though. While investigating this further this weekend I started putting together my numbers for T-1135 which I am required to report this year and while confirming the activity adjustments were correct, discovered that some have not been done yet. I also identified some dividend adjustments the broker may not be aware of and haven't been adjusted in the account, one of which is also a corporation. The adjustments for the US REITs were different than I was used to and while confusing in the activity log I believe are correctly done for a Canadian citizen as I can reconcile them to the US tax information, it was just done in a manner that was new to me.

More importantly I discovered that ongoing tracking of activity for T-1135 purposes is going to be as advisable as ongoing tracking of ACB. All of this can be figured out at tax time, it took me pretty much the whole day yesterday to put together the T-1135 information. The ongoing ACB tracking let's me know where my positions stand with regards to capital gains, the ongoing T-1135 tracking helps enforce me checking the receipt of dividends paid each month. It also results in a gant like picture for the different holdings I might want to make for my Canadian holdings, going to think about that. All my foreign holdings are equities in a trading account so I am happy about being able to use the aggregate reporting method.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> ... Starting this year (2016) they supplied the same Trading Summary, but didn't put the T5008 identifier in the upper right hand corner.
> 
> Instead, in addition to the Trading Summary this year, they supplied an actual T5008 slip with boxes like a normal tax slip that shows only the sales of securities so the customer wouldn't have to sort them out of the Trading Summary (which shows all buys and sells). It makes it much quicker to identify your loses.


Interesting ... I will watch for it but for me at least, it is behind the times as to whether I am selling for a loss or a gain. My spreadsheet tells me that before I pull the trigger on a sale.




like_to_retire said:


> ... This is what they are sending CRA now and I suppose it should match what you put on your tax return this year.


YMMV ... DavidW mentions that likely superficial losses won't be reported correctly. From those who have posted about switching brokers, I seem to recall FMV on the transfer date was used for cost so that may be another source of discrepancies. 


Either way, I use the numbers from the confirmation slips that are entered into my spreadsheet to report the numbers on my tax return. If I see a difference I will ask about it.


Cheers


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Eclectic12 said:


> Either way, I use the numbers from the confirmation slips that are entered into my spreadsheet to report the numbers on my tax return. If I see a difference I will ask about it.Cheers


Yup, same here, I use my own spreadsheet. I also don't use the T5008 to enter it's values into my tax return software's tax-slips as the tax software does a poor job of then populating Schedule 3. I just manually enter the numbers from my own spreadsheet into Schedule 3.

I do take the time though to compare my spreadsheet numbers with the T5008 because I would like them to match so as not to have CRA bug me about it.




bayst_tycoon said:


> thank u David ur the only one who said something that made sense.......


Mmmm, I guess you must have missed where AltaRed mentioned superficial loss in his post earlier.

ltr


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

bayst_tycoon said:


> yes it was the disposition not carrying over into the following year but showed as a proceed once i sold it. All i had to do was simply take the book value from 2015 & minus it from the proceed in 2016.


So, in other words, not all purchases and sales of this investment took place in 2016? If not, that should have been said in the original post and we could all have said then that the T5008 wouldn't provide the total basis on which to enter net purchase and sales data in Schedule 3.


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