# Convincing parents of the benefits of renting.



## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

EDIT: Sorry! I posted in the wrong forum. Can a mod move this to the general section?

Is owning better or is renting better? In my situation, I think renting is better (for now). How do I make a case with my parents?

I'm 23 y/o and still living with my parents but I want to move out. I definitely don't have the money to buy a house so the only option remaining is renting. This doesn't sit well with my parents because they see rent as "throwing money away" (which I'm guessing is what most people think). I live in the GTA and I have a contract job until October $2700/month after-tax. Judging by some Toronto rental /roommate websites, average rent is between $600-$800, which I think is perfectly doable going by the 30% rent/income guideline.

My parents say that buying now is good because after 20-30 years, that house will be yours. But my counter-argument to that would be I don't know what I will be doing after 20 years. And I definitely don't want a mortgage (assuming that banks will even give me one).

What other points can I make to sway their mind? I have a good relationship with my parents. It's just frustrating because they are MY parents. If this was someone else's, I probably would not care.

Buying a house might be better when I'm in my 30s but for now, I don't see that as an option. Am I in the right train of thought?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> Is owning better or is renting better? In my situation, I think renting is better (for now). How do I make a case with my parents?
> 
> Buying a house might be better when I'm in my 30s but for now, I don't see that as an option. Am I in the right train of thought?


It depends on what your are doing and what kind of job you have. If you move from job to job every 2 years or so and that job takes you to a different location in the city or even
elsewhere, being a home owner may require you to sell it. Renting it out has it own set of problems, but beyond discussion here. Your parents are right though..if you stayed in one
place (even if you move around with jobs) and paid say..$800 a month for an apt, in 1 year..that's $9600 that you have spent paying rent or in some cases, someone else's mortgage.

Now in 10 years, assuming that your rent didn't go up, which of course it will..that's $96,000 you have spent on rent and absolutely no equity to show for it..
but at the same time..you do not have to pay property taxes, repairs to the home (which can cost thousands these days) or heat.
A new furnace for instance can set you back up to $5,000, a new roof $10,000 or more, so extraordinary expenses do add up..something that you have to consider.

If you rent, and you are budget minded and don't spend every dollar you make carelessly, but "salt away" up to $5500 a year in a TFSA
you will have $55,000 in 10 years time of real money that you can use for a downpayment on a home later one..if you can still afford the home that is.

Just my opinion. I bought my first home in TO in 1970..sold it again in spring of 1971 when I moved to a new job out of town..
didn't make anything on the home after paying real estate and closing lawyer fees which were taken out of the new sale price of the home.


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

I understand the whole equity thing (and owning would be better in the long term) but the point I'm trying to make is I don't know where I will be in X years. I'll consider buying when I have a solid foundation. Buying and selling a home within 5 years is a pain.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'd also make the points that:

a) by renting, you can investigate other options for cheaper houses to buy once you've decided that the current situation is stable.

b) assuming you are committed to saving/investing for buying in the future, that you will put away what you can to grow (hopefully tax free in a TFSA or tax deferred in an RRSP to the Home Buyer's limit). 


Of course if you want to make the most financial gain - in theory you might be able to save a lot more by staying at home, if your parents are willing.



You say it's a contract job so I'd also cover how it's much easier to move on from a rental, should a job come up outside the GTA. Buying is a lot of work - which if sold in a short time span, might not have any gains to it.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

The other part of the equity equation is what's the point in have 0.001% equity if in a year or two, a job in Vancouver comes up?

Just the fees to sell are going to eat this up so unless what was purchased can be sold for a tidy gain, anything in the short term is likely a losing proposition.


Cheers


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## Sammi (Nov 12, 2013)

If you are on contract, you can tell your parents that by buying a place and my contract ends in Oct, what if I don't have employment? Who will pay for my mortgage?

By renting, you can get out without a lot of pain unlike buying/selling etc.

In addition, you can argue that renting allows you to try out different areas of Toronto (if you even want to live in Toronto). And once you decide where you like, then you will consider buying.

Finally, you can ease them up by saying that you do not plan on renting forever. And that the cost of renting "throwing away money" is allowing you to figure out where you want to live, the freedom to move out and learn how it is to live on your own and to ensure you do not have to deal with the mess of buying/selling and can go to where the jobs are.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

You'll probably not get an answer, but ask your parents what it costs them monthly (less mortgage if they have one), how much it costs to run their home. My house costs me ~$1200 monthly. If you can show them you can rent for less, which I'm sure you can, and that while renting you'd actually be saving towards a house, they might relent.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> It depends on what your are doing and what kind of job you have.


The OP says contract job until October so IMO, it's much better to rent. 

Heck, I had a full time job for five years before buying my first home.




carverman said:


> Your parents are right though..if you stayed in one place (even if you move around with jobs) and paid say..$800 a month for an apt, in 1 year..that's $9600 that you have spent paying rent or in some cases, someone else's mortgage.


I doubt the mortgage would be as low as $9600 but even if it were - without a substantial down payment, there'd be maybe $100 in equity built up in that year?

I'd want to be sure the contract jobs will keep flowing or be reasonably settled in a full time job before taking on long term commitment like a home.




carverman said:


> Now in 10 years, assuming that your rent didn't go up, which of course it will..that's $96,000 you have spent on rent and absolutely no equity to show for it...


I'm not sure the OP plans on renting for ten years but even if so, based on GTA prices and what appears to be little to no down payment - I'd want to look at what the equity would look like before sweating it too much. 




carverman said:


> ... but at the same time..you do not have to pay property taxes, repairs to the home (which can cost thousands these days) or heat. A new furnace for instance can set you back up to $5,000, a new roof $10,000 or more, so extraordinary expenses do add up..something that you have to consider ...


I can agree on the repairs but I'm not sure why people love deluding themselves. 

Any landlord that's going to stay in the rental business in the long run is going to be including the property taxes in their rent. So yes, there isn't a yearly (or a couple of times a year) charge for the property taxes and yes, the rent not go up by the same amount as the property taxes but sooner or later, it is included.


Cheers


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> I can agree on the repairs but I'm not sure why people love deluding themselves.
> 
> Any landlord that's going to stay in the rental business in the long run is going to be including the property taxes in their rent. So yes, there isn't a yearly (or a couple of times a year) charge for the property taxes and yes, the rent not go up by the same amount as the property taxes but sooner or later, it is included.


Interesting discussion. It's not the property tax instalments, that can be easily calculated into the rent.
The problem with renting, especially if the landlord is out of town (as in a new job), is that it could get quite expensive to have things repaired at the house if you end up with bad tenants.
Even with tenant references and a lease, one never knows what can happen during that lease.
Rent checks can bounce, tenants can cause some kind of damage and the last months rent...will that be used to pay the mortgage or spend it on repairs/painting/tidy up of the premises to
rent it out again. Maybe hiring a property manager to look after the premises if one plans to become an "absentee landlord".


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Any landlord that's going to stay in the rental business in the long run is going to be including the property taxes in their rent. So yes, there isn't a yearly (or a couple of times a year) charge for the property taxes and yes, the rent not go up by the same amount as the property taxes but sooner or later, it is included.
> 
> 
> Cheers


I don't understand the point of this comment, and it comes up every time the rent vs buy discussion does. What does the property tax, or any other expense, being "included" in the rent have anything to do with anything? I think the point of this comment is to try and convince the reader that the landlord wouldn't be landlording if he couldn't pass the taxes (and all other expenses) onto the renter?

That is the equivalent of saying "buying stocks is OK because companies make money". A fundamentally "true" statement, but completely irrelevent to the discussion of whether one should buy or rent, in a particular market, at a particular time in their life.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Taking a slightly different tack, here: I'm not sure why you actually need to convince your parents that you are going to make, or not make, any particular decision. (Who in this group likes to be "convinced" of anything?) 

What about simply saying, "I appreciate your point of view, and I understand your advice is based on your love for me and your well-wishes for me, and what worked out really well for you in your own lives. But I'm going to make a different choice right now, and I trust you will respect that."


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Depends on real estate growth in your area. Take the opportunity costs of investing the home equity (adjusted for after tax), add property tax, insurance, mtce, and the differences in utilities cost. Compare that to the cost of renting. And, depending where you move, the advantage downsizing if they have more than one vehicle. The math is straightforward...the rest is entirely emotion based. 

Good luck.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

carverman said:


> ... The problem with renting, especially if the landlord is out of town (as in a new job), is that it could get quite expensive to have things repaired at the house if you end up with bad tenants.


Then we are talking about different things as I was interpreting the statement "... at the same time..you do not have to pay property taxes, repairs to the home ... " as a comparison of the difference between rental versus home ownership.

Whereas your references to being an absentee landlord, tenants and a property management company/person suggest you are looking at what would happen if after the house was purchased then a new job was started elsewhere, what renting the house would work out to.


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think MG has the best advice. I don't think OP is likely to sway what his parents think is best.

I also just wanted to chime in to say OP is making the blindingly obvious correct decision to rent. Contract job for six months should not be the basis for buying a home. As long as OP saves appropriately, renting is a great financial decision. I don't think people can afford very much these days in TO on a 2700 take home. Maybe a 1 bed condo? Then it'd be $400 for condo fees, $250 for property tax, and $1400 mortgage. That's most of OP's income for a $300k condo.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

peterk said:


> I don't understand the point of this comment, and it comes up every time the rent vs buy discussion does.
> 
> What does the property tax, or any other expense, being "included" in the rent have anything to do with anything?


The problem is that in most discussions of renting versus buying, someone makes a statement like this one:


> ... at the same time..you do not have to pay property taxes, ...


.

This implies the renter is avoiding paying property taxes where the home owner does pay them.

The nearest (though not perfect analogy) I can think of is looking at the restaurant bill for a meal, assuming that because the tip line is blank, no tip was included and then reading in the fine print that your group of ten had a 15% gratuity included automatically in the bill.




peterk said:


> That is the equivalent of saying "buying stocks is OK because companies make money".
> A fundamentally "true" statement, but completely irrelevent to the discussion of whether one should buy or rent, in a particular market, at a particular time in their life.


It's not the equivalent as there is no claim of a difference between two situations.


A closer analogy from the financial world is someone claiming "buying a REIT paying 100% ROC for the distributions is better as it is tax free compared to the dividend taxes from a dividend paying stock".

This is not true as the RoC is reducing the ACB and increasing the capital gains tax due when the REIT is sold. It is tax deferred instead of tax free.


Cheers


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## Longwinston (Oct 20, 2013)

you're 23 years old. You don't need your parents permission. Do what you feel is best. 
The important thing is to get out of the house.


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> Taking a slightly different tack, here: I'm not sure why you actually need to convince your parents that you are going to make, or not make, any particular decision. (Who in this group likes to be "convinced" of anything?)
> 
> What about simply saying, "I appreciate your point of view, and I understand your advice is based on your love for me and your well-wishes for me, and what worked out really well for you in your own lives. But I'm going to make a different choice right now, and I trust you will respect that."


That's exactly what I wanted to say, but MG has said it more clearly than I could have. You are an employed adult. Once you leave the parental home, you can make these decisions for yourself. Of course that doesn't stop Mom and Dad from having an opinion. 

A true story:
Friends of mine in Ireland advised all their adult children to buy a house. A few years later, the property market crashed. The value of their houses today is about half of what it was when they bought them. And some of them have lost their jobs.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Ditto what others said - who cares what your parents think about renting?

If they don't like it, tell them to buy a house for you.


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> b) assuming you are committed to saving/investing for buying in the future, that you will put away what you can to grow (hopefully tax free in a TFSA or tax deferred in an RRSP to the Home Buyer's limit).
> 
> 
> Of course if you want to make the most financial gain - in theory you might be able to save a lot more by staying at home, if your parents are willing.
> ...


Right now, I have $15k in my TFSA and $6.5k in RRSP. I also have $11k in my chequing account. I paid off my debt of $31k for university so as of December 2013 I am debt-free except for credit card, which ranges $300-$400/month. This was made possible because I was living at home but now that I don't have any debt I want to move out. My parents are willing to let me stay but I am not willing. I feel like I'm stifled living at home being a 23 y/o adult. I should be "out there" learning for myself, being independent, TED talk by Meg Jay, etc, etc. (This is probably outside the scope of this forum).



andrewf said:


> I think MG has the best advice. I don't think OP is likely to sway what his parents think is best.
> 
> I also just wanted to chime in to say OP is making the blindingly obvious correct decision to rent. Contract job for six months should not be the basis for buying a home. As long as OP saves appropriately, renting is a great financial decision.


Just to clarify, I don't plan on moving out right now. I'm giving myself a deadline of October and once/if I get a FT job, I think that would be the right time. But yes, renting for the next couple of years would be ideal, until I can get a relatively good sense of what I want to do.

Also my brother is coming back from university so I want to spend a bit of time with him first.



Longwinston said:


> you're 23 years old. You don't need your parents permission. Do what you feel is best.
> The important thing is to get out of the house.


I'm not looking for their "permission". I just want to explain to them that rent is not "throwing money away".


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I think MG has the best advice. I don't think OP is likely to sway what his parents think is best.


If they aren't willing to listen to the "it's a contract job" bit, then it's probably time to stick to the "thanks but I'm making my own decision".




andrewf said:


> I also just wanted to chime in to say OP is making the blindingly obvious correct decision to rent...
> As long as OP saves appropriately, renting is a great financial decision...


+1 ...


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> Right now, I have $15k in my TFSA and $6.5k in RRSP. I also have $11k in my chequing account. I paid off my debt of $31k for university so as of December 2013 I am debt-free except for credit card, which ranges $300-$400/month. This was made possible because I was living at home ...


Sounds like you are off to a good start.




GreedIsGood said:


> ... but now that I don't have any debt I want to move out. My parents are willing to let me stay but I am not willing. I feel like I'm stifled living at home being a 23 y/o adult.


Fair enough ... this is why I wrote "in theory" as I'd watched my mom badger my sister while she was going to university (on a break? now is the time to study - then studying? now is the time to take a break by doing some chores) so I knew I had to move out - regardless of the finances. 

Don't get me wrong ... they were great parents. It's just that at a point, smaller doses were better.




GreedIsGood said:


> I'm not looking for their "permission".
> I just want to explain to them that rent is not "throwing money away".


That's the way I read the OP as well, so the "permission" bit seemed a bit off to me.

If your parents are anything like mine, I'd suggest planning on two or three ways of explaining it and leave it at that. Discussions on things they were convinced of, needed silence (or conversations with their friends) before the logic seemed to sink in.

Best of luck ...


Cheers


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Recommend them this blog: http://www.greaterfool.ca (or read a few posts yourself first, like this one: http://www.greaterfool.ca/2014/03/30/risk-on ) 

I surely stopped thinking how to help my 21 year old daughter buy her own first place after reading it - or worse yet, buy an investment condo


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> The problem is that in most discussions of renting versus buying, someone makes a statement like this one:
> .
> This implies the renter is avoiding paying property taxes where the home owner does pay them.
> 
> The nearest (though not perfect analogy) I can think of is looking at the restaurant bill for a meal, assuming that because the tip line is blank, no tip was included and then reading in the fine print that your group of ten had a 15% gratuity included automatically in the bill.


What I was trying to illustrate is that if you own and decided to move out of your principal residence to change your address to be closer to another job...certain expenses stay with the home, such as property taxes, fire insurance, water and sewer and of course the mortgage. You can ignore the cost of these and just rent it out at some "ball park" monthly rent and absorb the some of the costs as rental income expenses on income tax. That's all I was trying to say. 

If I was renting out my house because I had to and not living at the same address...it becomes an issue with the fire insurance/liability and that will go up significantly. 
You can of course, subtract all the monthly costs that the tenant does not pay directly and file those separately as expenses against profits, but CRA is still going to get their 
share once you declare renting out your home for income.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

For better or worse, the info that's there makes it seem like this is "rent saves paying property taxes" instead of the way you meant it.

IAC - most of the threads I've seen where a similar wording has come up, some people genuinely think that as a renter since there's no line item for property taxes, they aren't paying them. 

So I used the statement closest to hand to illustrate this.


Cheers


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eclectic, that depends on the tax incidence of property tax. Some of the tax is borne by tenants by higher rents, and some is borne by the landlord. It depends on the elasticities of supply and demand. If rents are set in terms of supply and demand for housing, then landlords have to eat the property tax out of their gross rent.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Agreed ... but if the landlord is constantly eating the property taxes, there's better be a big capital gain at the end or the landlord is going to get out of the business.

IAC, the thinking tends to be black and white where "I'm renting, I pay no property taxes" - which can't possibly be true across the country.


Cheers


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

The fact that my parents don't understand rent leads me to another question. *How do you feel about family members who don't "understand" money correctly (and may be taken advantage of)?* I feel so helpless and it's frustrating. I asked my dad how much money he has put away for retirement and he says "none", no TFSA or RRSP. All of the money is invested in the house ($15,000 mortgage left) and both my mom and dad will rely on the gov't at retirement... It's not their fault because we immigrated to Canada in 1996 and it's hard for my dad to find a job but I can't help thinking "house rich, cash poor".

Also my younger brother came back from university yesterday and I found out he signed up for Market America (similar to Amway, cutco, etc.). If you do a search on google, it is a multi-level marketing business model and immediately I thought SCAM and pyramid scheme... He's already paid $400 for product and I'm sure there are both monthly and annual fees...


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

You don't need to buy right now - just be frugal, rent, avoid owning a car, move when necessary to advance your career, and invest in equities. Houses can limit your career and relationship opportunities at this early stage.


Who knows, you might find a spouse with a house! :rolleyes2:


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

My experience is that you mention what you can .... if they don't pick up on it, you try a couple of times with different examples and if they still don't pick up on it, you wait until an opportunity presents itself.

As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink".

It's not worth ruining your relationship if they won't listen.


Cheers


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## financialuproar (Jan 26, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> Right now, I have $15k in my TFSA and $6.5k in RRSP. I also have $11k in my chequing account. I paid off my debt of $31k for university so as of December 2013 I am debt-free except for credit card, which ranges $300-$400/month. This was made possible because I was living at home but now that I don't have any debt I want to move out. My parents are willing to let me stay but I am not willing. I feel like I'm stifled living at home being a 23 y/o adult. I should be "out there" learning for myself, being independent, TED talk by Meg Jay, etc, etc. (This is probably outside the scope of this forum).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Am I reading this right? You're sitting on $11k worth of cash and still have credit card debt? If so, I'd immediately take $10k of it and plunk it down on your credit card.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I think he means he revolves $300-400/month on his credit card


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

jcgd said:


> I think he means he revolves $300-400/month on his credit card


This is correct. Oops, I guess in my original sentence my use of commas isn't that great.


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## financialuproar (Jan 26, 2010)

GreedIsGood said:


> This is correct. Oops, I guess in my original sentence my use of commas isn't that great.


Well then, carry on.


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## Siwash (Sep 1, 2013)

I rent and I have a stable very secure and well paying job! So does my wife! People think we are nuts but we save a ton of money by renting... home ownership is expensive... 

Houses are at risk of correcting soon... even more reason to wait


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

Depends on where you live... but for the most part yes... probably


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

Siwash said:


> I rent and I have a stable very secure and well paying job! So does my wife! People think we are nuts but we save a ton of money by renting... home ownership is expensive...
> 
> Houses are at risk of correcting soon... even more reason to wait


Where do you live?

Also what do you mean by correcting soon? There are articles all over about Stephen Poloz saying to expect low interest rates for years to come. I'm probably going to rent for sure but I don't know what to believe...


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Correcting soon since 2000... If you waited, you can no longer afford a house now... welcome to condo / townhouse living. Our presentable detached house in Toronto start around $1 million. These were like $300k a few years ago... even with a 20% correction, you are still at $800k. Wait more? Sure...


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MoreMiles said:


> Correcting soon since 2000... If you waited, you can no longer afford a house now... welcome to condo / townhouse living. Our presentable detached house in Toronto start around $1 million. These were like $300k a few years ago... even with a 20% correction, you are still at $800k. Wait more? Sure...


Do you seriously expect us to believe that your house tripled in value in 'a few' years?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Do you seriously expect us to believe that your house tripled in value in 'a few' years?


If so, this is much quicker than Waterloo which took nine years to go up by 80% ... though it was a small house.


Cheers


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

MoreMiles said:


> Correcting soon since 2000... If you waited, you can no longer afford a house now... welcome to condo / townhouse living. Our presentable detached house in Toronto start around $1 million. These were like $300k a few years ago... even with a 20% correction, you are still at $800k. Wait more? Sure...


I don't understand this post, especially that last sentence. Can you elaborate? Are you saying to wait or not wait to buy?


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

In North York, the bungalows were going around $300k in early 2000. Right now, they have tripled to $900k because investors want the prime lands. They buy, tear down, and rebuild a $1.5 million house on it. 

I think the correction may come but it will unlikely drop a detached house back to $300k level... so you lose more by waiting more. 

I know nothing about Kitchener as the town is highly dependent on just a couple of tech company employer.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

GreedIsGood said:


> I don't understand this post, especially that last sentence. Can you elaborate? Are you saying to wait or not wait to buy?


My interpretation is that the poster is saying..."Yeah, _right_" with facetious overtones.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Also, I would tell the parents that you woudl like to avoid CMHC ins, so you are waiting ot buy, until you at least have your 25% downpayment, and you will continue to rent until then.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

What other points can I make to sway their mind? I have a good relationship with my parents. It's just frustrating because they are MY parents. If this was someone else's, I probably would not care.

Buying a house might be better when I'm in my 30s but for now, I don't see that as an option. Am I in the right train of thought?[/QUOTE]

I have a daughter just one year younger than you and I think in the early years it is more important to establish yourself in your career and to be flexible in case you get opportunities that require relocation.To purchase a home then have to sell it cost several thousand dollars so IMO you never buy a home unless you know 100% you can keep it 5-10 years.And in your case you do not even have job security beyond a few months so why would your parents even push you to buy something.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Everyone has already covered what I was going to say... late to the party 

I can only add "throwing money away" is spending money in mortgage and interest payments you don't have. That's goes for any young aspiring homeowner. The reality with homes are, they cost a bundle more than renting than most people think. Don't underestimate the costs of home-moanership!


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## Tom Dl (Feb 15, 2011)

I have always been conservative about home ownership, not buying more than I could afford... Hasn't worked that well. I own my Pickering home outright, but would be better if I had bought in Toronto, and seen the price balloon. Obviously if homes triple in value standing on the sidelines is not a smart move. But to my way of thinking (so far wrong), there is probably no stronger top of the market, get yourself blown out on your tush indicator than someone in Toronto with a 36K pretax looking to buy a home at an average of 550K. In what world is that a good idea. Canada has the most overvalued real estate market in the world.

The equity home ownership argument is only good if you don't get equity in something at the same time as you pay your rent. Renting is good when you can buy more house for your payment by renting, than you can get with a mortage, and put the difference into some equity item that will give you ownership at the same time. There is a lot more value in the Can stock market at the moment than there is in Toronto houses. And they won't let you take on the margin in the stock market that they will in housing. Equity is a two way street, you get to own the down moves as well as the up.

There is also a demographic logic against getting into housing these days, though they are fighting that reality with immigration levels as hard as they can.


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## GreedIsGood (Dec 4, 2013)

Tom Dl said:


> I have always been conservative about home ownership, not buying more than I could afford... Hasn't worked that well. I own my Pickering home outright, but would be better if I had bought in Toronto, and seen the price balloon. Obviously if homes triple in value standing on the sidelines is not a smart move.
> 
> The equity home ownership argument is only good if you don't get equity in something at the same time as you pay your rent. Renting is good when you can buy more house for your payment by renting, than you can get with a mortage, and put the difference into some equity item that will give you ownership at the same time. There is a lot more value in the Can stock market at the moment than there is in Toronto houses.


If only we can predict the future. :rolleyes2:

I have never thought about buying. It's my parents who don't understand. Right now I plan on renting and saving, whether in TFSA or RRSP. If I still have money left over, I would probably go unregistered but we will see.


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