# Cliffs Natural Resources Inc. (CLF)



## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

i avoid posting anything about stocks per se as much as i can.
nevertheless this particular one caught my attn.
why?
it obviously relates to what they produce....
it operates in NA , Canada, Brazil and Australia.
safe countries.
brazil is not going to have a revolution anytime soon.
it is not Hugo Chavez Venezuela.
this stock had a value peaking at about 95 bux in June /2011.
it is a divvy paying stock.
is it a bargain i ask my fellow cmfers?
please encourage me to buy some..
just like i did with CCO and UUU.
inputs would be appreciated


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

thenegotiator said:


> i avoid posting anything about stocks per se as much as i can.
> nevertheless this particular one caught my attn.
> why?
> it obviously relates to what they produce....
> ...


Its a tough call. I bought some back at $32 and then again at $18.
Its the oldest company on the dow so im sure it will get back up to $50 but maybe a year or so.

The dividend was just cut and it was huge a few months ago. Plus they paid 1.7 Billion too much for a mine (can't remember which one) that they recently took a write down. For those reasons, i think the board of directors are going to run this into the ground.
I would prefer VALE at this point but going to hold long.

I would say to avoid it till iron ore price start climbing again.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

thank you for the reply.
last i heard is that steel has entered a bear mkt also.
therefore iron.
i can definitely check.
i always like to hear someone else's opinion though.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Speaking of steel,im looking @ x right now(united states steel)2007 the stock hit a high of $250.00 shs,now trading @ 16 and change.....is this the def of buy when the blood is in the streets?X obviously has a lot of problems along side the steel business(eternal?)anyways this thing looks dirt cheap!andrew carnegie's company dating back to the old days.....Anybody have a opinion on this?Neogotiator?Mention it because you say steel has entered a bear mrk(steel has been in a bear mrk for a few yrs?)Last time i checked steel aint going anywhere....10 bagger in 10 yrs....2023?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i wonder if i might leave an ignorant & frivolous comment ... metatheta has recently been doh-si-dohing with Walt & Cliff in iron option strategies. Pun is intentional. He said these short-term bromances did not work out, thus forcing him into Lulu's arms where she at least gave him a few dollars for a few nights of fun.

i think i'll have to take another look at the options. What i saw when i first looked at em - the options - were a couple of greying steelworkers quietly nursing their beers at the back of the tavern. But grey hairs or not, they looked fit as fiddles. Biceps bulging. Thighs like ropes. They weren't wasting any energy on the local yobs but sat there in grim muscled silence, apparently waiting for Miss Asia. Over at the next table i glimpsed a big crowd that included peabody & teck.

Walt & Cliff struck me as long-term cyclical relationship guys. Tough & faithful, but cruel if you mess with em at the wrong time. It's way early days in a "recovery cycle" right now. In fact the worst in commodities may be still to come i am thinking. I wouldn't sit at Walt & Cliff's table just yet. If i even sat down in the tavern, it would be near the door. Options are the only drink i'd order.


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## thenegotiator (May 23, 2012)

donald et al....
yes i do have an opinion.
i mentioned a few weeks or months ago ... cannot remember.
what comes down first. equities or commoddities.
i sound like a parrot by repeating it.

well the answer is here right now .
like i originally posted above i wanted some opinions and yes i got 3 answers.
1 answer strikes me as for the usual sarcasm and pun obviously which i always ignore.
but then again i am not an options trader so i am not getting involved into that.
we are in the early stages (IMO) of a major downturn .... in everything.... and please i am not making a call as to how and when.
i am actually looking at solid companies that will not go bankrupt and WLT, CNX Vale and X are the ones for now.
by looking at the short interest on cliffs I would not enter it now.
Vale short interest is much smaller but i would also not enter it now ( thks for bringing VALE up DAddYbig).
i obviously do not look into short interst only because in panic mode all longs will sell everything they can to amass cash.
they sell first and ask questions later.
that is my opinion Donald.
but what do i know .
i am just aregular joe right?
have a great weekend


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

D'oh!
CLIFFS NATURAL RESOURCES INC , $21.48, up 17.9 pct (1255 ET)

Never trust advise on the forum. 
I havent run the numbers yet but i also took some profits today to lower my buy-in price


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## avrex (Nov 14, 2010)

@daddybigbucks. Do you still have your CLF shares? or had you sold before today?


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

avrex said:


> @daddybigbucks. Do you still have your CLF shares? or had you sold before today?


I sold 25% today. Pretty much the ones i bought at $17.8.

I usually don't like selling blue chips for a loss. Because long term, they should all bounce back.
So the rest, ill just forget about.

I won't be buying anymore until management changes.


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## Feruk (Aug 15, 2012)

$3.4 billion debt, made $1.8 million last quarter on revenue of $214 million. Large dividend cut (75%) in February. HUGE dilution recently as well (40 million shares). You can call this a blue chip, but I'd rather call it for what it is; a big fat pig. I'll pass on slopping in the mud.


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

Feruk said:


> $3.4 billion debt, made $1.8 million last quarter on revenue of $214 million. Large dividend cut (75%) in February. HUGE dilution recently as well (40 million shares). You can call this a blue chip, but I'd rather call it for what it is; a big fat pig. I'll pass on slopping in the mud.


Hilarious.

Strong feelings for a company. Are you a RoF shareholder?


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## SpIcEz (Jan 8, 2013)

I can add some info for what its worth.

I have Cliffs as a client, both the Wabush mines (in Labrador) and the Bloom Lake mine (in Fermont, QC).

Made a good profit a few years back on the Consolidated Thompson mien (Bloom Lake), bought at 2$ got bought out at 17$ when Cliffs bought the mine.

That is the mine they seriously overpaid for by 1.7billion.

Now, Cliffs is much bigger than just their Canadian operations, however Bloom Lake is on of the bigger productions in the line up but expansion is on hold.

Quebec is asking for more money from mining companies and both Cliffs, Rio Tinto IOC and ArcelorMittal in that region are playing bluff games with the government slowing down their expansions (to varying degrees) to get them to back off.

Wabush mines is OLD and decrepid. Its falling appart. I think they are at around 30-45% production capacity because major equipment keeps failing and need shutdowns to fix up.

We had about 2-3 projects in the works which where cancelled with them recently. (by them).

Iron (though it just started a bearish trend last month) is still historically VERY high. But production costs at Wabush and overpaying for Bloom lake has seriously affected Cliffs, not to mention the general demand for steel slowing twice in the last 2 years.

If management takes things in charge and make changes, this can bounce back in the long term, for now though Id watch on the sidelines until there is an indication of such.

Iron Ore Prices

By the way, both mines had separate operations next to each other at the port facilities. They are however finaly consolidating those operations (which is about time).


_Disclaimer (Im a stock novice, however since I had some closer knoweledge about this company I thought Id share.)_


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

great post.

I had a chance to look at the numbers and compare this quarter to last.

I use my own formula and found that CLF had a book value of $10.50/share last quarter.
This quarter, their book value is $20.05!
This is mainly due to 2B off of their long term debt.

I will still have to go thru their earnings and such but i might be a buyer again if this PIG goes any lower.


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## Feruk (Aug 15, 2012)

daddybigbucks said:


> Hilarious.
> 
> Strong feelings for a company. Are you a RoF shareholder?


Never held these guys and I've got no clue what RoF is. I just really hate companies that demolish shareholder value with huge unsustainable dividends and insane debt. I've worked for two such pigs. Really grinds my gears.


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

Feruk said:


> Never held these guys and I've got no clue what RoF is. I just really hate companies that demolish shareholder value with huge unsustainable dividends and insane debt. I've worked for two such pigs. Really grinds my gears.


I hear you. 
I've been caught a couple times with those types of companies thinking "They wouldn't be paying out the cash unless they had the cash". But greed is a overwhelming force to some ceo's.


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

Market note:
CLF and VALE have really been on a tear as of lately. Took some profits because i had that feeling " to buy more"


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## nakedput (Jan 2, 2013)

a better option than CLF is a firm called Altius Minerals. I could go on and on about how good the company is (continued share buybacks, superstar management, low valuation, etc) but it is seriously worthwhile for a few of you to look into this company. They are very similar to Cliffs but superior in every way. If uranium and iron ore does as good or better than expected, Altius is headed quite a bit higher. I'm up around 15% already but buying more.


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