# Quarantine on return from vacation



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Air Canada etc. have now started selling vacation packages. On another thread someone mentioned someone having returned from a one week vacation in the Caribbean. Here is my question. Of those doing this, how many do you think are actually following the quarantine rules on their return?

I have trouble trying to imagine someone going on a one week vacation and then spending 2 weeks in total quarantine on their return. 









Passengers returning to Canada have been caught ignoring self-isolation rules, official says


International travellers who are required by law to self-isolate after entering Canada have been caught out in public ignoring quarantine rules, Ontario's top doctor says.



toronto.ctvnews.ca





If someone is willing to risk ignoring our government travel advisory to 'avoid all unncessary travel', just to go on vacation for one week, how likely are they to then pay attention to our government telling them they must quarantine for 2 weeks on their return? I would expect that a high percentage of them are not.

I note in the link that the Ministry of Health declined to say how many they have caught breaking quarantine. Why would they be reluctant to tell us do you think?


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Haven't looked/read the link but my answer to your question is "the MOH thinks it is doing or did a fabulous job in containing the pandemic in Canada that the rules can be relaxed (aka fake enforcement)".


----------



## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

They're going to be transitioning to a COVID test to get around the quarantine. Stay in quarantine until your test comes back negative, then it ends. Many countries are already at this point.

We're not considering any vacations outside of the country. I don't know anyone who is either. But maybe when the winter comes people will be getting antsy.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am avoiding contact so if people want to travel it doesn't really affect me. If our grandson returns to school, he won't be able to visit us anymore.

I do hope the Canadian government isn't expected to rescue them if they get trapped in a country that closes it's borders, or they get sick from COVID.

Do you think people understand they likely won't have any health insurance for COVID ?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm not considering any vacation either. We're just about to head into cold & flu season, I can't imagine why anyone would want to travel anywhere right now.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Listened to a local talk show, and families are arguing about all things COVID. Parents arguing with each other on kids going to school, grandparents offering their unwanted opinions, families upset with their parents traveling. One family took a case to family court. Mom wants the kid to return to school and dad says no. The court ruled the mom has custody in such matters. People are losing patience, but what you gonna do ? The COVID is still lurking around and all it takes is one infection to cause much grief.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

nobleea said:


> They're going to be transitioning to a COVID test to get around the quarantine. Stay in quarantine until your test comes back negative, then it ends. Many countries are already at this point.
> 
> We're not considering any vacations outside of the country. I don't know anyone who is either. But maybe when the winter comes people will be getting antsy.


There is a question as to the reliability of a quick test though. The only safe way is a 2 week quarantine. It is the airlines that are pushing for a quick test. Wonder why.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> I am avoiding contact so if people want to travel it doesn't really affect me. If our grandson returns to school, he won't be able to visit us anymore.
> 
> I do hope the Canadian government isn't expected to rescue them if they get trapped in a country that closes it's borders, or they get sick from COVID.
> 
> Do you think people understand they likely won't have any health insurance for COVID ?


You must have missed that Air Canada is offering free insurance with their vacation packages sags. Some countries such as Portugal and Spain are offering free coverage if you visit their countries. Insurance is not necessarily an issue now.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I'm not considering any vacation either. We're just about to head into cold & flu season, I can't imagine why anyone would want to travel anywhere right now.


I agree but the issue is that some people are willing to travel and the question I posed is how many do you think are quarantining on their return? I think if they are the type of person willing to ignore common sense and go on vacation, they are quite likely to be the type of person who will ignore quarantine on their return.

I have difficulty thinking people who will go, will think, 'I'm willing to SPEND 2 weeks in quarantine in return for being able to SPEND 1 week on vacation.' It is in a sense a mathematical equation.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Until the government approves a quick covid test, every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July, I can tell you that it is a pain even with friends helping.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> Until the government approves a quick covid test, every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July, I can tell you that it is a pain even with friends helping.


Which part of 'avoid non-essential travel' was it that you didn't understand in July kcowan? Or why did you think it was essential to go?

When someone chooses to ignore the travel advisory, they are not just endangering themselves. If they were only endangering themselves, that would be up to them and no one would care. But they are endangering others because of their selfish behaviour.

Someone returns from a vacation and ends up positive. When did they start being contagious, before or after they went into isolation? Did they endanger others on the plane, in the airport? When they take up time, attention and space in a hospital, they are endangering others who need that time, attention and space and who did NOT ignore the travel advisory and go on a vacation.

How about this idea. If someone goes on a vacation now, when they return, they will not be eligible for government health coverage. They will have forfeited that right when they chose to ignore the advisory to avoid travel.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

There is a lot of pressure being put on the government by the airlines to reduce the quarantine period. It's all about business, not about what is best for our health.








Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried COVID-positive passengers since February


Nearly 1,000 flights in Canada have carried at least one COVID-positive passenger since February, according to figures CTV News obtained from the Public Health Agency of Canada.




www.ctvnews.ca





Why should an airline be treated any differently than a restaurant? We tell a restaurant to maintain distancing and yet an airline does not have to do so. How come?

We advise people to avoid non-essential travel but allow airlines to take bookings for vacations. How come?


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Which part of 'avoid non-essential travel' was it that you didn't understand in July kcowan? Or why did you think it was essential to go?
> 
> When someone chooses to ignore the travel advisory, they are not just endangering themselves. If they were only endangering themselves, that would be up to them and no one would care. But they are endangering others because of their selfish behaviour.
> 
> ...


I suppose you were not paying attention but we were living in Mexico. We flew there last November. We had our return flight booked on April 26th. Westjet cancelled it. DW decided to have her hip replaced in Mexico and it was done May 24th. Recuperation was complete July 14th and we returned home July 17th, then did our 14 days. I suppose it was non-essential travel. Several other snowbirds stayed until June/July and others are still there.

Being prohibited from hospital care? I think it is a good idea: smokers, drag racers, skiers, pro-sports players. Basically anyone living a dangerous life.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> I suppose you were not paying attention but we were living in Mexico. We flew there last November. We had our return flight booked on April 26th. Westjet cancelled it. DW decided to have her hip replaced in Mexico and it was done May 24th. Recuperation was complete July 14th and we returned home July 17th, then did our 14 days. I suppose it was non-essential travel. Several other snowbirds stayed until June/July and others are still there.
> 
> Being prohibited from hospital care? I think it is a good idea: smokers, drag racers, skiers, pro-sports players. Basically anyone living a dangerous life.


Sometimes what someone intends to communicate is not the message someone reading gets kcowan. We are talking about vacations and you wrote, "_every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July," _So the message you gave as far as I am concerned, was that you went on a vacation in July and then returned to Canada and quarantined.

Perhaps you need to 'pay attention' to how what you write is likely to read to someone else who is not a mind reader who can interpret that what you actually wrote was not actually what you meant to communicate.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Sometimes what someone intends to communicate is not the message someone reading gets kcowan. We are talking about vacations and you wrote, "_every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July," _So the message you gave as far as I am concerned, was that you went on a vacation in July and then returned to Canada and quarantined.
> 
> Perhaps you need to 'pay attention' to how what you write is likely to read to someone else who is not a mind reader who can interpret that what you actually wrote was not actually what you meant to communicate.


No problem. You took one sentence as the context without acknowledging the broader context in which it was written. That is understandable. I guess most participants here so not have the broader context.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

kcowan said:


> No problem. You took one sentence as the context without acknowledging the broader context in which it was written. That is understandable. I guess most participants here so not have the broader context.


No, the broader context you refer to was only in YOUR mind, not in what you wrote. If you had written, 'when we returned to Canada from our winter in Mexico, we quarantined' that would have made sense but when you specifically write, "_every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July," _then your 'broader context' is 'every one week vacation' and your specific context is 'having done it properly in July'. 

You failed to communicate the message you thought you were communicating, it's as simple as that.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> No, the broader context you refer to was only in YOUR mind, not in what you wrote. If you had written, 'when we returned to Canada from our winter in Mexico, we quarantined' that would have made sense but when you specifically write, "_every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July," _then your 'broader context' is 'every one week vacation' and your specific context is 'having done it properly in July'.
> 
> You failed to communicate the message you thought you were communicating, it's as simple as that.


I totally understood the context @kcowan. He did not fail at all. He just assumed that people would rememebr that he was in Mexico for the winter. It Was not an unfair assumption for poster that has been on this forum for the last year. If you have been here longer than a year, you would know he is one of the snowbirds and long time contributor to this forum. As a long time contributor, one would also know that he is a pretty smart and level headed poster. Even as a non long time memeber, one should be able to figure that out. Really no need to ‘school’ him on his travel.

Communications is in context to your known audience. Just as I know some here go one about their early retirment In thier forties to the Greek isles, and there many trips to the swiss alps. i am sure since were a successful sales person, you understand the important of knowing the people you were selling too. I would assume you would remember details about them and tried to bring in history and context to conversations. or did you just take what they said in that one conversation and assume you were all knowing and scolded your clients? 

I appreciate that some members here reconize that there is some intelligence and don’t bother providing a full history every time.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Plugging Along said:


> I totally understood the context @kcowan. He did not fail at all. He just assumed that people would rememebr that he was in Mexico for the winter. It Was not an unfair assumption for poster that has been on this forum for the last year. If you have been here longer than a year, you would know he is one of the snowbirds and long time contributor to this forum. As a long time contributor, one would also know that he is a pretty smart and level headed poster. Even as a non long time memeber, one should be able to figure that out. Really no need to ‘school’ him on his travel.
> 
> Communications is in context to your known audience. Just as I know some here go one about their early retirment In thier forties to the Greek isles, and there many trips to the swiss alps. i am sure since were a successful sales person, you understand the important of knowing the people you were selling too. I would assume you would remember details about them and tried to bring in history and context to conversations. or did you just take what they said in that one conversation and assume you were all knowing and scolded your clients?
> 
> I appreciate that some members here reconize that there is some intelligence and don’t bother providing a full history every time.


I disagree with your assumption that it was clear Plugging Along. I am aware kcowan wintered in Mexico but that was not what he wrote about. He wrote about one week vacations requiring 2 weeks quarantine and THEN wrote, "_having done it properly in July" _

That is a clear connection in English. There is no ambiguity or need for 'assuming' anything when you read that. One follows the other as night follows day.

Why would you ASSUME he was referring to his return from Mexico any more than you would ASSUME he was referring to a separate trip? IF we have to assume anything, then the communication is not clear. Clear communication is about not having to assume because the message is clear to anyone reading it.

Kcowan, wrote what was in fact a clear message. It just wasn't the message he intended to send.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Longtimeago said:


> I disagree with your assumption that it was clear Plugging Along. I am aware kcowan wintered in Mexico but that was not what he wrote about. He wrote about one week vacations requiring 2 weeks quarantine and THEN wrote, "_having done it properly in July" _
> 
> That is a clear connection in English. There is no ambiguity or need for 'assuming' anything when you read that. One follows the other as night follows day.
> 
> ...


The definition of an assumption is something you believe is true without proof. 

I didn’t ASSUME his July trip was a vacation he just took, YOU made this assumption ( which was wrong).


I KNEW that kcowan returned from his long trip. It was not as assumption, it was fact. I read, remember and make connections to people who post a lot or long time members. In several of his posts earlier this year, he said that he was still in Mexico from pre Covid. He even spoke about how his flight was cancelled in April, and he was going stay there for bit. He talked about his wife getting a hip surgery in May and was recovering. when he returned, hetalked about his flight back,and how his friend dropped off his car at the airport to be contactless. That was in direct response to you calling him out on how he was getting home. This was IN JULY.. So if he talks about when he returned IN JULY and then quarentined for two weeks IN JULY. It would be an unlikely assumption that he went on another trip IN JULY and then returned IN JULY to quarantine again for two weeks.

Perhaps I have a better memory than you or I am better at facts and reasoning but I was very clear that kcowan was referring to his long trip from mexico that he returned from in July. I had no need to make any assumption, so his message was communicated very clearly. Perhaps, kcowan only poor assumption was assuming that all had the same memory and reasoning ability as me. However, I also learned that when I am not 100% sure on something and there is an assumption, not to be a condensing know it all and take the time to ask for clarity to validate the assumptions.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> I totally understood the context @kcowan. He did not fail at all. He just assumed that people would rememebr that he was in Mexico for the winter.


I also had no difficulty in understanding kcowan's message. For the sake of convenience, here it is again:



kcowan said:


> Until the government approves a quick covid test, every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine. Having done it properly in July, I can tell you that it is a pain even with friends helping.



Let's break it down into its constituent elements, shall we class? 

First sentence: "Until the government approves a quick covid test, every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine."

The message there does not strike me as opaque of meaning. Go vacation in a warm place and be prepared to quarantine for 2 weeks upon return. One can arrive at that construction of the sentence without any knowledge whatsoever about the author having been in Mexico for any particular period, or at all. The message stands by itself. If there is any ambiguity at all - and I submit there is not - I suppose one could strain the interpretation a bit to take it as meaning that 2 weeks of quarantine will be needed for every week of vacation taken. In that case, a 3-week trip would require 6 weeks of quarantine. I doubt many would take that view of the words.

Next sentence: "Having done it properly in July, I can tell you that it is a pain even with friends helping." Again, seems rather straightforward. What was done properly in July? Quarantining would seem to be what was done, and done properly. As I see it, the background was not particularly relevant to the message being communicated which I clearly took to mean that a short hop abroad will entail a 2-week quarantine and that ain't fun. 

To me, subjecting the short post to a fine parsing and embarking on a forensic analysis of "broader context" and "specific context" seems wholly unnecessary and unwarranted. And, to be honest, I had difficulty in following that part of the analysis. Too sophisticated for me, I suppose. LTA will have to accept that some denizens of cmf are a bit pedestrian and we don't operate at his level.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

@Mukhang pera LTA was scolding kcowan for going on what he assumed was a non essential trip. His condescending scolding wasn’t necessary because LTA assumption was wrong. Here was the short form



Longtimeago said:


> Which part of 'avoid non-essential travel' was it that you didn't understand in July kcowan? Or why did you think it was essential to go?
> 
> When someone chooses to ignore the travel advisory, they are not just endangering themselves. If they were only endangering themselves, that would be up to them and no one would care. But they are endangering others because of their selfish behaviour.


 I was merely explaining the facts that were available in my head which allowed me to say that the communication was fine. It was also fine without any context as you said. 

On a side tangent, I always find it interesting how people focus and interpret different parts of a post so differently. Perhaps the above was not condescending and it was my interpretatio.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Lots of people are in and out of Canada to travel...I'm sure they are not what has been described in this thread...2 of my friends are currently isolating after returning from a fun holiday to New York City for 2 weeks.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Eder said:


> Lots of people are in and out of Canada to travel...I'm sure they are not what has been described in this thread...2 of my friends are currently isolating after returning from a fun holiday to New York City for 2 weeks.


I think the mandatory 14 day quarantine should continue upon return. Otherwise you are putting your entire community at risk just because you wanted to have a fun vacation.

A friend of mine is currently vacationing in Asia and just caught COVID. Same age as me, in his 30s.

He's feeling OK but is frightened. That's not a good situation to be in. No thanks, not going anywhere.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

kcowan said:


> Until the government approves a quick covid test, every one week vacation to a warm spot will necessitate a two-week quarantine ...


Or it could be worse. 

Friends skipped their pre-covid booked trip when they found out they would be landing in a different city for their covid test. If it was negative, there would be another flight to get to their original destination. If it was positive, they'd be spending two weeks of their three week trip in quarantine. The potential of double quarantines with only one week, *if they could move around the country*, made the trip too much of a hassle, in their opinion.




kcowan said:


> .... Having done it properly in July, I can tell you that it is a pain even with friends helping.


I'm interested in what you found to be a pain for the two week quarantine, with friends able to help out.

With internet access, NetFlix etc., the part I thought might be difficult was groceries. Particularly with the delivery services saying their next available slots were three weeks out. Friends and neighbours covered the groceries, making it seem more like a vacation for me.


'Course I've in a mature neighbourhood so there's a big back yard with a big deck to get fresh air in.
I can see it being more difficult for those in a no balcony or postage stamp sized balcony.


Cheers


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Mukhang pera said:


> I also had no difficulty in understanding kcowan's message. For the sake of convenience, here it is again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree the two sentences as written are quite clear. It is the message that is in question. That message based on what was written, is that kcowan was saying that in July he quarantined following a vacation. I do not see how you can interpret it as ONLY referring to the quarantine portion of the first sentence. 

What does IT refer to in the second sentence? Clearly, it refers back to the first sentence, ALL of the first sentence. To refer ONLY to the quarantine portion of the first sentence, it would need to be say so.

IF kcowan had written, 'having quarantined properly in July.......' that would have separated it from the 'vacation' portion of the sentence and indicated his second sentence was only talking about the quarantine period. 

I would have let it slide but kcowan chose to say that it was I who did not understand what he wrote rather than it being HIS failure in communicating the message he intended to give. I had no problem understanding what was written, as written. I made no assumptions and took him at his word, as written.

Clear communication is something that many people have difficulty with. They know what message they intend to send but often fail to do so. That's what kcowan did in this case. In my opinion he should have taken ownership of that and NOT tried instead to put the blame on my part.

As a further example, you need look no farther than kcowan's last sentence in #15 above. "_I guess most participants here so not have the broader context." _Anyone want to assume what that means? It isn't even an actual sentence.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eder said:


> Lots of people are in and out of Canada to travel...I'm sure they are not what has been described in this thread...2 of my friends are currently isolating after returning from a fun holiday to New York City for 2 weeks.


Which part of 'avoid non-essential travel' did they not understand? Every person who goes on a vacation at present is putting not just themselves but others at risk. Suppose they came back with Covid? Could they be sure they would not pass it on to anyone else? Could they assure us that they would not use up medical care that could have been available to others? If they do start to show symptoms, are they going to say, 'OK, this is on me, I will not expect help from our health system since I chose to ignore the advisory to avoid travel.'

Right now, vacation travel is an entirely SELFISH thing for anyone to be doing.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> I totally understood the context @kcowan. He did not fail at all ...


Seemed clear enough to me.

The first sentence was about the two week quarantine requirement, no matter how short the trip. The second sentence was about the hassle of a two week quarantine with no indication of departure date or length.

'Course having seen so many post and having friends who go to warmer places for months in the winter, the idea that is was a more recent trip seemed to me to be a low probability.


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I think the mandatory 14 day quarantine should continue upon return. Otherwise you are putting your entire community at risk just because you wanted to have a fun vacation.
> 
> A friend of mine is currently vacationing in Asia and just caught COVID. Same age as me, in his 30s ...


Not sure there is any suggestion that the fourteen day quarantine for those returning to Canada is going to be dropped anytime soon.

So returning to the original question - do you think your friend when he returns to Canada will properly self-quarantine?
Do you think like LTA suggests - that those willing to go for short vacations will be less likely to properly self-quarantine?


I personally don't know anyone leaving the country for a two or less week vacation. Those who I know did for three weeks or so seem to properly self-quarantined.

I've seen news articles about those who aren't but I suspect these are few in number, regardless of whether it's a recent trip or a return after months away.


Cheers


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> Not sure there is any suggestion that the fourteen day quarantine for those returning to Canada is going to be dropped anytime soon.
> 
> So returning to the original question - do you think your friend when he returns to Canada will properly self-quarantine?
> Do you think like LTA suggests - that those willing to go for short vacations will be less likely to properly self-quarantine?
> ...


I think it is about the kind of mindset some people have. Those likely to take a vacation right now are in fact ignoring the 'avoid non-essential travel' advisory don't forget. People with that kind of mindset are I believe just as likely to ignore the 'self-quarantine for 14 days'.

If you think of it just in terms of 'time cost' and as a mathematical equation, the shorter the vacation time period the higher the relative cost in quarantine time. Someone going somewhere for several months might well say, 'I'm OK with a 2 week quarantine on my return'. It is a reasonable 'cost' in time relative to the total time. But to have to PAY 2 weeks of time in quarantine for 1 week on vacation is not the same thing at all.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

As I am a highly skilled practitioner in the craft of speed reading, and have extraordinarily high mental comprehension and intelligence abilities, immediately upon perusing KCowan's post I internally simplified it down to two words.

Vacation.......quarantine.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Or it could be worse.
> 
> Friends skipped their pre-covid booked trip when they found out they would be landing in a different city for their covid test. If it was negative, there would be another flight to get to their original destination. If it was positive, they'd be spending two weeks of their three week trip in quarantine. The potential of double quarantines with only one week, *if they could move around the country*, made the trip too much of a hassle, in their opinion.
> 
> ...


The pain was related to imposing on friends to do our shopping. They did not buy the stuff we wanted. They got cheese and we could make do with their choice. Also the restocking involved ordering online from Fresh Street market. Great place but they made substitutions that would not have been our choice. But we survived and are thankful for the efforts of friends and Fresh.

Also not being able to go for a walk for two weeks in the good weather was a problem given how few good weeks we get here.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

The other difficulty with quarantine for some is if they live in an apartment. It is difficult enough if you have your own back yard and ample space, but if you have any common areas, you can't go into them. My in laws self isolated when they came back from their trip. Full quarantine was not mandatory at the time (just before things started to shut down here and there was no recommendation to even isolate). We had them isolate, but to bring their groceries, we had to find and pay for parking downtown, then get buzzed in, go upstairs and then drop it off their step. We would also take out their garbage so they didn't have to bring it down their common hallway. 

They were also getting a little stir crazy being locked in their small two bedroom place. Something to thing about for apartment dwellers.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> I think it is about the kind of mindset some people have. Those likely to take a vacation right now are in fact ignoring the 'avoid non-essential travel' advisory don't forget. People with that kind of mindset are I believe just as likely to ignore the 'self-quarantine for 14 days' ...


Possibly ... but then again, I can think of several situations where what seemed likely and logical - turned out to be wrong.


Cheers


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> ...
> 
> They were also getting a little stir crazy being locked in their small two bedroom place. Something to thing about for apartment dwellers.


 ... and condo dwellers plus those renting/sharing the house/unit/pad with other tenants.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

In Ontario, Doug Ford says the quarantine orders are not getting enforced by the Feds and the Feds respond that the OPP can enforce it. 








Ford accuses feds of failing to enforce quarantine orders in Ontario | Globalnews.ca


Ontario Premier Doug Ford says the quarantine system is 'broken' because federal health officers are not charging people ignoring self-isolation orders for COVID-19.




globalnews.ca





The news media tells us of these two responses but I do not see them going out and actively asking for responses from the RCMP or OPP as to why they are not enforcing the law. The media just show us the press conference coverage, where is the INVESTIGATIVE reporting following those news releases by government.

Where is say a reporter buttonholing someone who has ignored the quarantine and asking them to explain their actions?

I'm tired of the news media just reporting to us what is HANDED to them to report and doing no actual work themselves to provide us with information.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

kcowan said:


> The pain was related to imposing on friends to do our shopping. They did not buy the stuff we wanted. They got cheese and we could make do with their choice ... Also not being able to go for a walk for two weeks in the good weather was a problem given how few good weeks we get here.


I'd see these are irritants rather than all that painful or difficult. 

It might be a glass half full POV from knowing people whose version of quarantine was being loaded up on gov't trucks then being at a gov't facility. 


Cheers


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> ... Where is say a reporter buttonholing someone who has ignored the quarantine and asking them to explain their actions?
> 
> I'm tired of the news media just reporting to us what is HANDED to them to report and doing no actual work themselves to provide us with information.


Maybe ... but then again, if the person ignoring quarantine is hanging up on the nurse talking about the quarantine requirements - are they going to want to have a conversation with a reporter?


Cheers


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> Maybe ... but then again, if the person ignoring quarantine is hanging up on the nurse talking about the quarantine requirements - are they going to want to have a conversation with a reporter?
> 
> 
> Cheers


It's not about having a conversation with them. It's about naming and shaming them. 'Mr. Jones, can you tell us why you ignored the quarantine requirement? Smile for the camera Mr. Jones. Do you not want your neighbours to know why you put them at risk by breaking quarantine, they would like to know I think.' All being asked as the culprit tries to hide their face from the camera and get into their car in the parking lot.


----------



## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

I think a fine would be better. They should give them the order to quarantine in writing, explaining what it means and how to do it and on there explain that there may be check ups and if they are deemed to not be complying they may face a fine of whatever amount and possibly charged with criminal negligence, if it is proven that someone they came into contact with, while under quarantine orders, got infected. If that person dies, they may face up to 20 years in prison...which is fair and reasonable.

That would obviously help. Just telling someone to do it and having no check ups or teeth to it will not work. People are born selfish, as all creatures are, and the lions share of us only make changes to our behavior in the interest of a few friends and members of our immediate family. That is not how I want the world to be, it is exactly the way the world I live in, is.

We need to stop wishing things were different and start planning to stop the virus in the real world we live in. This is not complicated stuff.


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> I think a fine would be better. They should give them the order to quarantine in writing, explaining what it means and how to do it and on there explain that there may be check ups and if they are deemed to not be complying they may face a fine of whatever amount and possibly charged with criminal negligence, if it is proven that someone they came into contact with, while under quarantine orders, got infected. If that person dies, they may face up to 20 years in prison...which is fair and reasonable.
> 
> That would obviously help. Just telling someone to do it and having no check ups or teeth to it will not work. People are born selfish, as all creatures are, and the lions share of us only make changes to our behavior in the interest of a few friends and members of our immediate family. That is not how I want the world to be, it is exactly the way the world I live in, is.
> 
> We need to stop wishing things were different and start planning to stop the virus in the real world we live in. This is not complicated stuff.


Did you bother to read anything before posting that comment?

They say there were over 600 KNOWN violations of quarantine in Ontario and only 17 tickets written. They have a law that allows them to fine people but they are not ENFORCING that law obviously. Your comment that you think they should fine them is pointless when they already can and are not doing so.

Why is the media not holding the OPP and RCMP's feet to the fire and buttonholing them for answers rather than just covering press conferences etc. That is what annoys me, where is the investigative reporting and the aggressive chasing of people for answers?


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> It's not about having a conversation with them. It's about naming and shaming them ...


The articles I can recall about individuals breaking quarantine had their names in them. Articles like the one linked that talk about the overall situation seem to be hit and miss as to whether names are attached.


Cheers


----------



## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> Did you bother to read anything before posting that comment?
> 
> They say there were over 600 KNOWN violations of quarantine in Ontario and only 17 tickets written. They have a law that allows them to fine people but they are not ENFORCING that law obviously. Your comment that you think they should fine them is pointless when they already can and are not doing so.
> 
> Why is the media not holding the OPP and RCMP's feet to the fire and buttonholing them for answers rather than just covering press conferences etc. That is what annoys me, where is the investigative reporting and the aggressive chasing of people for answers?


Nothing you said has anything to do with what I said so whether I bothered to read the other posts is irrelevant. Try just stating your opinion instead of always trying to insult others on their opinions.

My point is that just handing out the threat, in writing, would make most of those infractions disappear. I did not say we should or should not fine anyone. I did not say we should or should not charge anyone with criminal negligence. I just said that we should at least do the the easiest thing possible, simply hand them a piece of paper and let them worry about that while they are heading off to the grocery store. They would know that if they are pulled over, for even a tail light malfunction, their name will be in a database and they might be busted. That will keep a lot of those people from breaking their quarantine order and reduce the number of times for the others.

The way it is now most people believe the quarantine order has no teeth and almost no way to be enforced.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Hmmm ... I seem to recall several articles saying fines were levied after a written warning was issued. It may vary by jurisdiction though as the NL woman was arrested where the wording makes it sound like the arrest is needed first.








Newfoundland woman arrested for refusing to self isolate after talking to police | Globalnews.ca


The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary says the 53-year-old woman was arrested Tuesday in Corner Brook for violating public health emergency orders aimed at slowing the spread of COVID-19.




globalnews.ca





Alberta, OTOH seems to have issued a $1,200 ticket plus a warning and then an arrest with the potential of a $750K fine.








Kentucky man faces $750K fine for breaking quarantine rules in Alberta Rockies | Globalnews.ca


Drivers are allowed a reasonable period of stay to make the transit and are limited to travel within Canada using the most direct route to Alaska.




globalnews.ca






Cheers


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

If someone is really sick they will be in the hospital or @ home in bed. To quarantine the healthy is a crime against humanity. There are low life gang stalkers out their to void your freedoms under the guise of keeping the community safe.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Eclectic12 said:


> Hmmm ... I seem to recall several articles saying fines were levied after a written warning was issued. It may vary by jurisdiction though as the NL woman was arrested where the wording makes it sound like the arrest is needed first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 The fines go against human rights. A citizen arrest should be made against those handing out the bogus fines. In the US a federal judge recently ruled that lock downs, limiting size of gatherings & shutting down none essential services are unconstitutional.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

:) lonewolf said:


> If someone is really sick they will be in the hospital or @ home in bed ...


LOL ... lots of people come into work sick all the time. 

Before you say that's pre-covid19, the cleaner in my office building waited until the fifth day of symptoms before deciding maybe it's covid and to get a test (surpise, surprise, he tested positive). That meant he'd been on every floor multiple times while having symptoms.

Plus one is contagious before needing a hospital or bed.


Cheers


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Eclectic12 said:


> LOL ... lots of people come into work sick all the time.
> 
> Before you say that's pre-covid19, the cleaner in my office building waited until the fifth day of symptoms before deciding maybe it's covid and to get a test (surpise, surprise, he tested positive). That meant he'd been on every floor multiple times while having symptoms.
> 
> ...


Who cares if someone has COVID ? If they are really sick they will be on death bed. If Covid is so deadly how come half the people who have it do not even know they have it? The CDC has now says less then 10,000 people have died from COVID alone with 90% being (aged elderly forget the exact word they used but was similar) Though no main stream media will report it. There are more suicides & drug overdoses caused by the government lockdowns then COVID. COVID would not even make the top 10 causes of death yet we do not lock down for other diseases.

Masks are causing bacteria infections destroying gums & teeth are weakening immune system with lower oxygen levels, lower oxygen levels increase risk of heart attacks & increase chance of heat exhaustion on hot days.

They want to vaccinate us all which will kill more people then the virus.

Government is more dangerous then any virus


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Canada does need to join most of the rest of the world as far as tourism quarantines...a tourist arriving with a recent clean Covid test should be more than sufficient.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Eder said:


> Canada does need to join most of the rest of the world as far as tourism quarantines...a tourist arriving with a recent clean Covid test should be more than sufficient.


Get real, The tests cant even be trusted. In one weekend alone something like a dozen NFL players were false positive tested. They & their families had to be in quarantine. There have been people that have signed up to be tested for COVID & left before getting tested because the lines have been to long & they have been notified they had COVID. One president forget name of country sent tests taken from fruit & gave the tests names ages sex to pretend they were people & the tests came back positive for COVID.

The Sheeple are dumber then the dumbest sheeple in herd. The way death certificates are filled out were changed to increase the COVID death counts.

Being a sheeple is a sickness more deadly then COVID


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

:) lonewolf said:


> Who cares if someone has COVID ? If they are really sick they will be on death bed. If Covid is so deadly how come half the people who have it do not even know they have it? The CDC has now says less then 10,000 people have died from COVID alone with 90% being (aged elderly forget the exact word they used but was similar) ...


I'd think the relatives and/or friends of those who had health challenges that were stable, who were alert/fine before exposure to covid meant death in two to ten days would care. 

Cheers


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Well I guess if you are Justin's friends you don't need to quarantine...



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306402113002655744


----------



## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Why are Republican mega-donors considered Justin's friends?


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I wonder how much I need to be worth before I don't need to self quarantine either.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Eder said:


> I wonder how much I need to be worth before I don't need to self quarantine either.


 Some of these billionaires need to be quarantined in a jail cell for their corruption. I do not think anyone should be quarantined because of COVID . Those behind the CON JOB should be jailed


----------

