# CMF demographics - Where do CMF members live?



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Out of pure curiosity.


----------



## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

A geographic location or Province/Territory for those in Canada in the profile certainly helps when choosing to respond to some of the posts. If not in the profile it's nice when posters identify their general location particularly when they are asking for info/help.


----------



## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Retiredguy said:


> A geographic location or Province/Territory for those in Canada in the profile certainly helps when choosing to respond to some of the posts. If not in the profile it's nice when posters identify their general location particularly when they are asking for info/help.


Yeah, I do that when I ask about things I know are regional, like auto-insurance.


----------



## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Or in the case of Ontario, more than just regional. Car insurance is more expensive in Brampton than in Mississauga, but they are right beside each other.


----------



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

From the stats that we have so far, I thought we'd have more people from BC.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Retiredguy said:


> A geographic location or Province/Territory for those in Canada in the profile certainly helps when choosing to respond to some of the posts. If not in the profile it's nice when posters identify their general location particularly when they are asking for info/help.


Maybe Vertical Scope could use provincial flags! By the way, if you travel, those flags can change according to wheer you log on. Depends on your profile. Notice some of those spammers show up with odd flags.


----------



## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> From the stats that we have so far, I thought we'd have more people from BC.


Don't you know that BC stands for "bring cash"?... living here would be financial suicide. Most people with any sense moved away.

Ontario is doing their best BC impression lately, however.


----------



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

nathan79 said:


> Don't you know that BC stands for "bring cash"?... living here would be financial suicide. Most people with any sense moved away.
> 
> Ontario is doing their best BC impression lately, however.


Meanwhile, I live in Montreal, I find it expensive, yet I find Toronto super expensive, so I can't even imagine Vancouver.

But everything is relative, I have a friend who moved from San Francisco to Vancouver.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Big cities are expensive....don't live there.


----------



## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> Meanwhile, I live in Montreal, I find it expensive, yet I find Toronto super expensive, so I can't even imagine Vancouver.
> 
> But everything is relative, I have a friend who moved from San Francisco to Vancouver.


I though Montreal was cheap, but my opinion is likely out of date.

San Francisco is pretty expensive, but they have the salaries to match. Can't say that about Vancouver or Toronto, but especially Vancouver.


----------



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

nathan79 said:


> I though Montreal was cheap, but my opinion is likely out of date.


Cheaper than Toronto and Vancouver but in Quebec we are the most underpaid with Nova Scotia.

People in Quebec make about 20% less than people in Ontario.

We have the highest income tax, while Ontario has the lowest.



> Income tax rates in Quebec are higher than in other provinces and territories because the government of Quebec finances a wide variety of services that other governments do not.







__





Median after-tax income, Canada and provinces, 2014 to 2018


none




www150.statcan.gc.ca








__





9.2.5 Provincial and territorial income tax - Canada.ca


Learn about that different income tax rates and brackets for Quebec and other parts of Canada.




www.canada.ca


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I spend most of the year in Mexico so I answered Central America even though that is not correct.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ It's okay kcowan, we know you're "Canadian" by heart.

Interesting that no one picked NFLD despite living there. But then participation is optional.


----------



## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

MrBlackhill said:


> Cheaper than Toronto and Vancouver but in Quebec we are the most underpaid with Nova Scotia.
> 
> People in Quebec make about 20% less than people in Ontario.
> 
> ...


Ontario lowest? Using taxtips calculator I would pay 42% more tax in Ontario than BC. You also mention Nova Scotia. I would pay 98% more tax there. But I could buy 4 houses in Halifax with proceeds from my Vancouver area house.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

TaxTips addresses the issue. If we exclude the 3 territories, up to about $100k, BC is generally the least, and beyond that AB.


----------



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Retiredguy said:


> Ontario lowest? Using taxtips calculator I would pay 42% more tax in Ontario than BC. You also mention Nova Scotia. I would pay 98% more tax there. But I could buy 4 houses in Halifax with proceeds from my Vancouver area house.


I admit I didn't do a full calculation but just a rough idea. But looking at the tables provided by @AltaRed, I see people in Ontario paying 14% taxes for $30,000 income, which gives a chance to low income people whereas people in Quebec already pay 20% taxes for $30,000 income. And as the income grows, a $60,000 income is taxed about 30% in Quebec compared to 23.7% in Ontario, which is amongst the lowest with BC. Then 31.5% in Quebec vs 25.3% in Ontario for $80,000. And 33.1% in Quebec vs 27.2% in Ontario for $100,000.

I agree that it doesn't take into account every cost of living in BC vs ON vs QC, but from what I read in the table, QC and NS have the highest taxes while ON and BC have the lowest (exception made for NU & cie). But anyways the table I posted about median after-tax income sums it up (Median after-tax income, Canada and provinces, 2014 to 2018) where people in Ontario have 24% higher after-tax income than people in Quebec.

But then housing are much more expensive in BC and ON. I agree that houses are maybe 2x more expensive in Ontario, so even if my after-tax income was 24% higher I wouldn't been able to buy the same kind of property in Ontario. But Quebec may be starting a housing bubble to catch up with Ontario and BC, as our housing just jumped +25% year-on-year. It may still take a decade to catch up the crazy prices in ON and BC.

I'm sorry I didn't want to start a debate about who has the highest cost of living as I don't know. I just know that QC pays the highest taxes, but ON and BC pays much, much more for their housing. And I would argue that people in AB have the highest income and decent housing price. Other than that, I'm no expert about the cost of living in each province.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

BC and ON have high housing prices in certain regions. It's not homogeneous throughout the provinces. 

Overall, AB probably has the lowest cost of living. No PST, essentially no land transfer taxes and essentially no probate fees. Trouble is... they will likely need all 3 in some form to balance the books.... once they get their civil service costs per capita in line with ON and BC (at a minimum).


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> BC and ON have high housing prices in certain regions. It's not homogeneous throughout the provinces.
> 
> Overall, AB probably has the lowest cost of living. No PST, essentially no land transfer taxes and essentially no probate fees. Trouble is... they will likely need all 3 in some form to balance the books.... once they get their civil service costs per capita in line with ON and BC (at a minimum).


The problem that in ON and BC "high housing prices" in regions that have jobs and that are more or less developed! Find professional who wants to live in Thunder bay or Sarnia!!!
AB would be awesome country after they separate from corrupted Canadian Liberals, with BC and SK or not.... not important

P.S. It would be extremey funny if BQ and Maverick get many mandats and form ruling coalition


----------



## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

I have a friend who is a medical specialist and grew up in Vancouver. After getting their specialty at Dalhousie they set up practice in a smaller town in NS with nice medical facilities. Big fish in smaller town I suppose. They said why come back to BC - especially Vancouver where they would make -+ the same money but have to spend 2M on a house when back there they own 1 rental house, plus a very nice house in the small town and another lake front property. Total 1.25M. They know and love BC but are very happy in NS .


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> Meanwhile, I live in Montreal, I find it expensive, yet I find Toronto super expensive, so I can't even imagine Vancouver.
> 
> But everything is relative, I have a friend who moved from San Francisco to Vancouver.


It is very relative to what stage in life you are in and what your needs are. 

My spouse has lived in NY for work on and off. When it's just him, he could rent crappy bachelor's suite for $1600, eat sort of cheap (and lousy), and just work. He didn't worry about healthcare because he would fly home. Add wife and kids, then he didn't choose quite as sketchy places and needed a 2 bedroom. If were were planning to stay, we would have considered schools which is another ball game. This was the same thing in San Fran. It's about 4 times the cost have the same standard of living as we currently do. San Fran/Bay area is as expensive as NY. Toronto is about 2 the cost of living as where we are. 

Childcare, medical, schooling are all huge considerations. Not just tax rate. 

I am in AB, but we have another property in BC. My little >1000 sq ft place in the middle of nowhere cost me the same in property taxes as my house that is double in size. I don't even garbage pick up in my BC place. I think the standard of living in AB is very good, except the opportunities for work are really dwindling with such a high focus on O&G. I don't know what AB future holds though, so it may not be the same for my kids.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

@Plugging Along: Non-BC residents pay a lot more in property taxes in BC than do BC residents so you don't have a fair comparison. On top of that, I get a senior's discount. I pay less in property taxes in the Okanagan on a house twice the size of what I had in Calgary in both square footage and Market Assessment. It is relative and regional. Our food costs here are less than Alberta and also less than the Lower Mainland. Folks who move here from the Lower Mainland are surprised at the lower cost of food...which I suspect is a function of price of real estate (lease costs). The point is there is lots of variation for a variety of reasons.


----------



## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

Manitoba is pretty much the poo hole of the planet, but I was an Air Force brat, and this is where I ended up 50 years ago.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> @Plugging Along: Non-BC residents pay a lot more in property taxes in BC than do BC residents so you don't have a fair comparison. On top of that, I get a senior's discount. I pay less in property taxes in the Okanagan on a house twice the size of what I had in Calgary in both square footage and Market Assessment. It is relative and regional. Our food costs here are less than Alberta and also less than the Lower Mainland. Folks who move here from the Lower Mainland are surprised at the lower cost of food...which I suspect is a function of price of real estate (lease costs). The point is there is lots of variation for a variety of reasons.


That's very fair. My spouse and debated if it was worth declaring that we were BC residents instead of AB for when we retire, but when factored in the differences in our income tax, it wasn't worth the hassle.


----------



## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

Ponderling said:


> Or in the case of Ontario, more than just regional. Car insurance is more expensive in Brampton than in Mississauga, but they are right beside each other.


I live 122 metres from the fire hydrant. Oh... sorry I thought this was an insurance thread.

Golden Horseshoe, Niagara Region


----------



## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> Interesting that no one picked NFLD despite living there. But then participation is optional.


Actually, no one from the Maritimes at all.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> Actually, no one from the Maritimes at all.


 ... 'cause they're shy and very nice folks. If they want to disguise as Ontarians, I'm okay with it.


----------



## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

MrBlackhill said:


> ... I'm sorry I didn't want to start a debate about who has the highest cost of living as I don't know. I just know that QC pays the highest taxes, but ON and BC pays much, much more for their housing ....


And that's the problem with looking at income tax rates in isolation.

The Quebec person looks at the lower income rate with higher pay, thinking Ontario is better. The Ontario person paying anywhere from $1000 to $1700 a month for child care thinks $160 to $400 in Quebec is great. 

Someone taking a job in Ottawa that is going to rent likely figures Quebec rents at $450 less that Ottawa is great.

Both the Quebec and Ontario person likely look at the AB person that isn't paying PST etc. as having an advantage.


At the end of the day, income tax rates are one piece of the puzzle that in isolation, can be deceptive. 


Cheers


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Also Quebec *universities* have the lowest tuition fees in Canada . our daughter is 2nd year Western student and next year she starts Western's *Ivey Business School* .... the tuitions are the killer!


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Ivey is the best in Canada. Worth the price.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

kcowan said:


> Ivey is the best in Canada. Worth the price.


No doubt that Ivey is very good, but McGill also is very good and much much cheaper...


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

gibor365 said:


> No doubt that Ivey is very good, but McGill also is very good and much much cheaper...


Tell me more. My son wants to go to western. $25k just for tuition in year 3 and 4?


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Tell me more. My son wants to go to western. $25k just for tuition in year 3 and 4?


Our daughter starts 3rd year at Ivey in September , so will be able to tell you exact amount later...As per their website, it's 27K, but my wife mentioned much higher amount...


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ It's okay kcowan, we know you're "Canadian" by heart.
> 
> Interesting that no one picked NFLD despite living there. But then participation is optional.


AHEM!


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> Actually, no one from the Maritimes at all.


not that it matters that much, but "The Maritimes" and "The Atlantic Provinces" are two different things.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> AHEM!





Beaver101 said:


> ... 'cause they're shy and very nice folks. If they want to disguise as Ontarians, I'm okay with it.


 ...AHEM! LOL.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> not that it matters that much, but "The Maritimes" and "The Atlantic Provinces" are two different things.


How so?


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Money172375 said:


> How so?


Maritimes consist of NB, NS and PEI. Atlantic Canada (Atlantic provinces) consist of NB, NS, PEI and NF.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> Maritimes consist of NB, NS and PEI. Atlantic Canada (Atlantic provinces) consist of NB, NS, PEI and NF.


I get it now.


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

^^^^^👍👍👍👍^^^^^
(the last one especially!)


----------

