# Yellow Media Inc. (YLO.TO)



## tendim

Did a search but didn't find much useful.

What are folks thoughts on Yellow Media Inc (YLO)?

Their share price has dropped considerably, but they are still paying a consistent dividend (although that has been lessened due to the restructuring from a trust to a corporation). I'm treating this as fixed income, so as long as they continue to pay dividends, I'm not too concerned about their share price.

Thoughts? Any holders? Theoretically now is a _great_ time to buy and top up the position.

Cheers.


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## jamesbe

Sinking ship.

They just sold Trader corp for less than half of what they paid for it 2 years ago.

They haven't figured out how to make money in an age where you aren't the only game in town (phone books).


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## Freedom45

I'm with jamesbe. They're leaders in a dying/dead industry. When was the last time you looked in the Yellow Pages, or their website?

There are other companies that pay healthy dividends that I would pick long before YLO. My $0.02.


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## m3s

I haven't unwrapped a Yellow Pages book in years and I sigh every time they deliver palates of them to work that nobody will ever open in the age of internetz

I used to use their Yellow Pages iPhone app, but Google Places has it beaten handily now

They bought the local classified "LesPacs" in Québec, and it seriously sucks and costs way too much compared to the superior and free Kijiji. They try to call you when you place an ad to push you to pay more for no good reason as well. I think I paid $20 to list a motorbike and found a quick buyer on Kijiji anyways

Redflagdeals is an alright site... so you're investing in a free website imo

Another Dinosaur about to be extinct IMO


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## daddybigbucks

look at the 5 year chart and it becomes painfully clear.

I wouldn't buy YLO even with mode3sour's money.


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## HaroldCrump

Agreed, it's got one leg in the grave.
I hold some of their bonds, maturing in 2015.
As long as they hold off bankruptcy until then, I'm good.
I wouldn't touch their common shares with a 10-ft. pole.
The recent sale of Auto Trader is just another nail in the coffin.

They have gone from a business where they had a near monopoly to a vastly competitive, low margin and fickle minded industry, where they have no skills and no experience.
There's of course a _small_ chance that it could all work out, you never know...but it'll take a long time and it'll be a painful process.


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## m3s

daddybigbucks said:


> I wouldn't buy YLO even with mode3sour's money.






HaroldCrump said:


> There's of course a _small_ chance that it could all work out, you never know...but it'll take a long time and it'll be a painful process.


After seeing what they've done with autrotrader and lespac I can't imagine how. People seem so reluctant to switch from those pay sites and they still screw it up with slow old fashioned quality webdesign among other nuances to practically boot the last ones out the door, and then have the nerve to spam you for more money. Could they at least beat kijiji's service for a fee?


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## HaroldCrump

mode3sour said:


> After seeing what they've done with autrotrader and lespac I can't imagine how. People seem so reluctant to switch from those pay sites and they still screw it up with slow old fashioned quality webdesign among other nuances to practically boot the last ones out the door, and then have the nerve to spam you for more money. Could they at least beat kijiji's service for a fee?


I agree, mode, as I said I wouldn't touch it.
I think this will go the way of many other high yield stocks from the past...the dividends keep flowing in until one fine morning when everything falls apart.
The true players and institutions will time their exits and get out before the s*th hits the fan, wiping out the small investors that didn't see the writing on the wall.


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## Argonaut

For a high yield play, Just Energy (JE) would be a better choice. Not much growth, but good cash flow and no debt problems.


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## webber22

There is very high volume on some days with this stock, anyone have any ideas why?


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## financialuproar

Yeah, YLO is crap. 

Lots of debt combined with very little in tangible assets. I took a look at the preferred shares a few years ago, but I was concerned about a cut in the dividend in the common shares and the damage that would do to the preferreds.

Even my Grandma uses the internet to find out stuff she used to use the yellow pages for. And she's about 2 million years old.


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## Potato

I still hold it, but I'm not nearly as bullish as I was a few years ago.

The positives include the huge swath of negativity you saw in every other response so far: that's real contrarian sentiment! People have been calling for the death of the yellow pages for years, but it's been a slow death. Top-line revenue has been flat, even through the recession, as their online and smartphone revenues offset the declines elsewhere. Bottom-line's been a bit of a different story, but still, a slow death that may already be priced in.

Unfortunately, the negative attitudes have a good basis: lots of debt (I kept hoping they'd use the cash generated to pay off the debt, but instead the seem to keep finding things to buy), and the future of the business doesn't look good. Though their online offerings are growing and making money, online is a far more fickle place than the staid print directory.


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## tendim

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I'm long a small position, but it provides a nice steady stream of income to my TFSA which I am happy to live with. When I did my original analysis on YLO.UN last year, it looked like a good buy. Back then the shares were also trading at over $6.00, so obviously much has changed.

I'd agree with Potato:



Potato said:


> The positives include the huge swath of negativity you saw in every other response so far: that's real contrarian sentiment! People have been calling for the death of the yellow pages for years, but it's been a slow death.


While it may be true that the sale of Trader.com lost money relative to what they paid for it, from what I have read so far the price they received was in excess of the current fair market value. Aside from that, everyone seems to be assuming that Yellow _Media_ Inc. is all about the Yellow _Pages_, but they have moved into other territories as well. A lot of the negative sentiment seems to be based on what their previous business model was -- in a paper world, and they are letting their thoughts cloud judgment on the actual fair value of the stock. I'll have to do a re-analysis of course, but so far from a cursory look things are mixed from a fundamentals perspective (YoY from 2009 to 2010):


P/E has remained nicely below the magic Graham number of 15
EPS, while it took a dive in 2008, has climbed YoY by 35% from 2009 to 2010
Both quick and current ratios have dropped
Debt to equity has stayed relatively consistent over the past 5 years (~.415 +/- 8%)

I guess we'll have to see where things lie on May 5 when they announce the F2011-Q1 results. 

At the end of the day I am holding this as a cash flow, not a capital gains vehicle. So as long as they keep paying dividends, I'll be happy.

Cheers.
-10d


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## m3s

tendim said:


> While it may be true that the sale of Trader.com lost money relative to what they paid for it, from what I have read so far the price they received was in excess of the current fair market value. Aside from that, everyone seems to be assuming that Yellow _Media_ Inc. is all about the Yellow _Pages_, but they have moved into other territories as well. A lot of the negative sentiment seems to be based on what their previous business model was -- in a paper world, and they are letting their thoughts cloud judgment on the actual fair value of the stock. I'll have to do a re-analysis of course, but so far from a cursory look things are mixed from a fundamentals perspective (YoY from 2009 to 2010):


No, you are letting the high yield cloud your judgement! Many have explained they were a good paper company and have no clue what they're doing online. All they've done is pay a lot for a few websites, add a Facebook fan page Twitter account and mobile app. They know paper is done and are clawing for something, and seem to think social media is all they need. They don't know what they're doing online, they've done nothing innovate themselves, they haven't improved the websites at all.

Here's a list of their websites.


YellowPages.ca
Canada411.ca
Canadaplus.ca
AutoTrader.ca
Autos.ca
BuySell.com
HomeTRADER.ca
PriceCanada.com
RedFlagDeals.com
Restaurantica.com
Mediative.ca Deal of the Day
LesPAC.com

The last one, LesPac.com used to be a popular local classified ad site in Québec but many have noticed negative changes since YLO took over. The prices went up, the searches keep glitching out and making you start over, you have to pay to edit your ad and then they call you spamming you for more money. Locals are moving to other sites and LesPac is not as popular as before YLO. Autotrader.ca was popular and they're ruined it as well. This solidifies to me that they are a paper company and know nothing about the internet.

I mean, who actually wants to follow trader.ca and lespac on their FB and twitter? Lespac just posted a pic of their lunch room! The fan pages mostly only have a few thousand followers, besides RFDs which has a whopping 23k. The autotrader fan page has 2 posts and one of them is spam!

LesPac and Autotrader were already good sites, and if they ruined them how are they going to make those other sites popular? How can they afford to pay such high dividends off these sites, when they're paying for them instead of designing them and have no internet innovation skills?


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## kcowan

mode3sour said:


> LesPac and Autotrader were already good sites, and if they ruined them how are they going to make those other sites popular? How can they afford to pay such high dividends off these sites, when they're paying for them instead of designing them and have no internet innovation skills?


This is the best analysis of what is wrong with YP that I have seen. Thank you.


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## Sustainable PF

mode3sour said:


> Here's a list of their websites.
> 
> 
> AutoTrader.ca


They most definitely changed AutoTrader but IMO it may look more "slick" the functionality I loved from the old version is gone and replaced with extremely clunky code.


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## m3s

Sustainable PF said:


> They most definitely changed AutoTrader but IMO it may look more "slick" the functionality I loved from the old version is gone and replaced with extremely clunky code.


Yes I'm not sure what they did to LesPAC but clunky code sounds about right. You can now share ads on your Facebook and see their lunchroom on their Facebook Fan page but when your actually try to search for a vehicle it freezes and shows the wrong vehicle etc. Frustrating to the point most people have discovered/recommending peers to use Kijiji


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## webber22

The short position on this stock has shot up to over 10 million shares in the last 2 weeks. The preferred shares have lost close to 10% during this period as well, not a good sign. The earnings come out on Thursday - maybe now's a good time to sell if you have any


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## kcowan

My convertibles are paying a mere 6.25% until Oct2017. Unless they turn this puppy around soon, I will have to sell them at a loss.


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## HaroldCrump

Question for those of you that hold long positions : what are the chances of the company going belly-up?
How secure are their cash flows?

Reason I ask is after the latest round of sell off earlier this week, their bonds are now trading below par.
Many of the notes are maturing in the 2014 - 2016 timeframe and are trading between 94c. to 98c. on the $.
The yields are in the 6% - 6.8% range for an approx. 4 year holding period.
I believe most of these are unsecured debts, so are slightly superior in the capital structure compared to the units, but will probably get wiped out if the company files bankruptcy.

The RBC analyst recently downgraded the target price (guess he was away on a 6 month fishing trip!) but claims the debt is safe.

Opinions?


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## daddybigbucks

HaroldCrump said:


> Question for those of you that hold long positions : what are the chances of the company going belly-up?
> 
> Opinions?



I cant believe all the insider BUYING being done on YLO right now. 2.5M of shares bought today.


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## kcowan

Most bonds and selling for 8% premium if they deliver 6.5% until 2017. YLO are selling for 2% discount so actually 10% below market. Getting hammered along with the common. I think it is suffering the ugly duckling syndrone right now. Even if it flies, it will still be ugly.


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## Financial Cents

I wouldn't touch it. Sure, a high yield but a very risky reward. Eventually risk burns.


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## HaroldCrump

Yellow Media dropped nearly 20% today.
Stock has now lost > 60% in less than a year.
Is anyone continuing to hold through this carnage?

P.S. I don't have any long/short position in this. 
Simply watching from the sidelines but can't imagine what it's like to be a shareholder during such times


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## CanadianCapitalist

Hard to believe it now but Yellow Pages used to be considered a "blue chip" income trust when it debuted and for many years after. Dividend investors used to love this stock. Goes to show that you have to look at more than just dividends in evaluating a stock. Dividends are cold comfort when a stock loses the bulk of its value.


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## MoreMiles

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Hard to believe it now but Yellow Pages used to be considered a "blue chip" income trust when it debuted and for many years after. Dividend investors used to love this stock. Goes to show that you have to look at more than just dividends in evaluating a stock. Dividends are cold comfort when a stock loses the bulk of its value.


Phone book is like DVD business. Why do people still need it when Google has everything? I think they will end up like Block Buster.


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## m3s

I need to take up short selling


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## HaroldCrump

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Hard to believe it now but Yellow Pages used to be considered a "blue chip" income trust when it debuted and for many years after. Dividend investors used to love this stock.


So YLO must have been the darling of the pension funds and the insurance companies.
Guess they are the first rats to bail from the sinking ship.
That might explain all this selling pressure...they are probably averaging out instead of dumping their large stacks.


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## fersure

MoreMiles said:


> Phone book is like DVD business. Why do people still need it when Google has everything? I think they will end up like Block Buster.


In Canada, Google adwords is driven primarily by the YPG databases.
I've bought on every leg down, including today's debacle. I'll buy even more once the Trader deal closes (knock on wood).

Old news that everyone - including the analysts - seems to forget.
http://www.ypg.com/en/newsroom/166-yellow-pages-group-and-google-expand-strategic-relationship


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## m3s

So why do Canadians pay Yellowpages to get Google hits? Because we're lazy old school suckers in Canada and and keep paying when you can list with Google directly for free?


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## scomac

I am still holding my position in the "B" series of soft retractible preferred shares. I haven't added to the position since the general downdraft in preferred share issues that occurred in 2008-09. With the return to those levels of pricing recently, it has been tempting to add, but this situation is non-systemic and as such there is significant risk to capital until retraction due to the operating company's woes.

As it stands, with the potential for a significant capital gains liability on the horizon as a result of a consummation of the proposed TSX-LSE/Maple merger, my decision will likely be made for me as the YLO preferreds are the only holding I have with a significant unrealized capital loss. As a result, I will likely be selling the position at some point before year end to crystallize the loss. The more interesting question becomes; will I buy back the shares after the 31 day withholding period expires? Historically, I have tended not to be very good at getting that done, usually to my regret at some later date. However, this situation seems to me at least to be more reminiscent of Quebecor World than some of the other short term troubles that have effected other companies that subsequently recovered such as Baxter International most recently.


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## HaroldCrump

The 2016 bond is trading @ 84c and the 2015 @ around 95c.
Looking at shorter maturities, it appears the market believes the company can meet its debt obligations for next 2 - 3 years however beyond that is a roll of dice.


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## humble_pie

why am i getting a 67 penny quote for ylo.db.a.

i believe coupon is 6.25, so yield is in the high 9s.

Q: what could be the diff between this & harold's debentures.
A: must be the convertibility feature, could be bad news now ...


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## HaroldCrump

For sure worth looking at the prospectus.
The conversion price must be a la-la-land price, given how this stock's fallen.

The quotes I'm looking at are a straight unsecured debt, paying a fixed coupon and a fixed maturity date.

83c. is not discount enough for me to buy (yet).
Given the stock's already lost another 12% this morning and continuing downwards, maybe tomorrow.


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## kcowan

I think the stock price reflects the abject failure of management to capitalize on their dominant position a few years ago. Their attempts to diversify into internet businesses have been a complete failure! All their convertibles are under water.

I think we might have another year to look for a turn around/takeover.


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## HaroldCrump

The 2016 has now dropped to 83c. as I write this.
I wonder whether DBRS is going to wake up sometime this century and revaluate the rating.
It's still rated as BBB(H).
Or will they stay true to their reputation of being the last ones to the party.
If the rating is cut, it'll shave off another 10c. from the price, or maybe more depending on how deep the cut is.
That might be my cue to buy a small position.


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## Financial Cents

I predict a major dividend slash, then a takeover.


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## m3s

I hope whoever takes them over knows how to run a half decent web site. I would gladly pay for some of their services when buying/selling a vehicle. Germany has a very nice used vehicle web site, it's not rocket science


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## larry81

Anyone still holding... P/E is <6 !!!


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## Sampson

Keep in mind that is trailing earnings, not future earnings.


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## gibor365

larry81 said:


> Anyone still holding... P/E is <6 !!!


Anyone buying?! P/E = 5, yield more than 30% 
So, it's 2.5% per months, dividends for next months were alreadty declared, so it's guarantee


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## Betzy

Seems like a low return even though, unless you have cash on hand to buy 10000 shares then your div return this month would be $542.00.
Then what if it continues to slum down...if it fell to $2.1058 then you break even -trade costs.
I think this is a short trade for sure, looks like fun and scary AST
Thinking...


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## larry81

2.05 !

Sure, YLO is a shitt company but a P/E of 5 is simply irrational, this stock is beaten by analysts comments.


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## HaroldCrump

larry81 said:


> Sure, YLO is a shitt company but a P/E of 5 is simply irrational, this stock is beaten by analysts comments.


No, there are fundamental reasons for the low valuation.
Whether long-term the company is able to re-invent itself and dig out of this hole is another matter.
You may believe in it, or may not.
But it's not correct to say it's nothing more than the analysts bad mouthing the stock.


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## larry81

As part of standard due diligence, i would be interested to hear them Harold


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## HaroldCrump

larry81 said:


> As part of standard due diligence, i would be interested to hear them Harold


Read the 2 pages of this thread 
Also, have you looked at their balance sheet?
I think the issues are obvious (to me, at least).
Since you appear to be the contrarian here, why don't you tell us why you think the problems are being over-stated by the analysts and how you see this playing out.


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## larry81

I am not really 'pro YLO' and i agree 100% that, in the ages of the internet, this shop is doomed to fail unless the management reinvent its core business.

However, from a 12,000 foot point of view, P/E of 5-6 are supposed to be attractive.


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## kcowan

Larry
I think it is the same as RIM. We are all looking for a sign of life from the management that they have found the magic formula for a turnaround.


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## CanadianCapitalist

larry81 said:


> P/E of 5-6 are supposed to be attractive.


A p/e of 5 or 6 on a stock when the market is trading at mid-teens is an indication that the market is pricing in a bleak outlook for the stock. At these values, the stock is a lottery ticket. If the market is making a wrong call, you can make out like a bandit.


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## HaroldCrump

The bond market is often a good indicator of future valuations.
If you look at YLO bonds before all this began unraveling, the 2015 and 2016 were yielding 5% and change YTM.
These days, those same bonds are sitting at ~ 9%.
So yields have nearly doubled.
And these were BBB+ bonds, so well within investment grade range.

P/E ratios are rear-looking while bond yields are forward-looking.


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## Jayde

As a long term investment I would agree that YLO is far from a winner. 

I couldn't pass up the 8% per month return though. Between dividend and covered calls, it's a cash cow. 

If it can survive another few months, I'll be happy. I'm just riding it until I get stopped out. Make hay while the sun shines and all that...


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## humble_pie

what kind of broker lets you place stop loss orders while running short covered calls on the same stock ...


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## Jayde

I set a stop on the stock and an alert just above the stop. When I get the alert I unwind the call option, then let the stock stop out or not.

I write the calls about 2-3 weeks before expiration, so they lose their time value fairly quickly after I sell them. If I need to unwind, I usually take a bit of a hit on the extra commission, but still make a small profit.

It involves staying a bit closer to the computer than I would normally like, but it's great when it's working.

To be honest though I haven't been writing calls the last couple of months because the stock's been dropping too fast. Lately I've just been buying for the dividend and bailing on the ex-date.


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## HaroldCrump

Stock is now well below the $2.00 support, for the first time ever (at least since the conversion from trust).
However, the bond market seems to have stablized at an yield of just above 9% for the 2015 maturities.
The longer maturities appear stable too since the last few days.
The huge sell off in equities is probably driving more money into bonds, which has benefitted even YLO I assume.
This could very well be the bottom, at least until further changes to the fundamentals.


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## Sampson

HaroldCrump said:


> This could very well be the bottom, at least until further changes to the fundamentals.


I wonder if this is possible? There are so many free sources for the type of information YLO provides now, and new generations EXPECT this to be free.

This company either has to model better advertising companies like google or really shift their business focus and model. Bond holders might have it good if they can turn it around though.

You hold the bonds don't you Harold?


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## HaroldCrump

Sampson said:


> I wonder if this is possible? There are so many free sources for the type of information YLO provides now, and new generations EXPECT this to be free.


A lot of that has already been discounted into the current stock price.
Stock is now trading at less than 70% of its post conversion high...what a bloodbath.
Market is applying a heavy discount to all the intangibles on their balance sheet, essentially indicating that the book value is less than what the financials show.
Of course, it's always possible that things may get even worse from this point on


> Bond holders might have it good if they can turn it around though.
> You hold the bonds don't you Harold?


Yes, I have a small holding of their 2015 maturity, bought several years ago when it was still a trust and a blue-chip one at that 
For all I care, they need to stay solvent for just three more years.
Of course, they will have to stop paying all dividends before they'll be allowed to default on the bonds.

Also, I notice that the yields have dropped below 9% for the first time in months, for all maturities until 2016.
The 2020 is yielding over 9%, but 2020 is a Pluto year as far as I'm concerned.


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## webber22

Dividend cut, stock down 28% so far to $1.38 

http://tmx.quotemedia.com/article.php?newsid=43569530&qm_symbol=YLO


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## Four Pillars

Well that should surprise nobody.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ahses-dividend-to-reduce-debt/article2119350/


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## HaroldCrump

Oh boy...and yes, this was inevitable.
They could have chosen to suspend dividends entirely.
After all, the stock has already lost 80% of its post conversion value.
What's another 5 - 10%?


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## Four Pillars

Exactly. This is a perfect example of the dividend wagging the yellow dog.

They should have cut it to zero - probably a long time ago.

And Greece/Ireland should have defaulted on their bonds...

Financial moves made with "appearances" in mind are not likely to end well.


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## webber22

This is good news for any bond holders for now. It's funny that the yield is still high at 10%, I'm glad I didn't buy any shares ...


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## Sampson

Darn, I was going to post about this risk last night. Something to the effect that don't hold your breath about the bonds being safe, dividend cut coming soon.

It is a curious best YLO, since the balance sheet really does look reasonable. I'm sure there will be resolution after the next few quarters of earnings reports.


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## HaroldCrump

...and here comes the rating downgrade...finally.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/sp-downgrades-yellow-media/article2119350/

I wondered on the post dated 6/28 on when the ratings agencies plan to wake up...apparently, it only took them 3 months


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## Larry6417

*YLO keeps on giving...to short sellers*

I've looked at YLO over the past year, and the financials are deceptive. It has a large number of preferred shares, which are not considered debt. Obviously, the bonds and preferreds rank ahead of common shareholders.


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## Sampson

It might be another lesson in hierarchy of ownership of assets and how low a company will fall. 08/09 showed that preferred shares are meaningless, I don't recall many companies that cut common dividends yet retained preferred payouts. And even bond holders had to and continue to fight in some cases to recover anything.


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## m3s

Financial statements don't mean much when your business becomes obsolete


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## Betzy

So the big question I have with this one, when they reduce their dividend, can they chop the whole thing back to peanuts? Or is this usually a gradual reduction over payout periods yrs? 
The list says 12% div yiedls but on the chart it shows 69%???


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## m3s

The big question is why are people still looking at this train wreck? This stock has fallen from $6 to $1 this year and already cut the dividend from $.65 to .15

That's what I would call peanuts but you can still get 15% yield on $1. This is the epitome of why not to chase yield. There is nothing "media" about Yellow Pages Media, besides buying websites and selling them for a fraction of the cost year later


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## jamesbe

I saw that cut announcement it had to be done. Now I'd be surprised if a big sell off doesn't happen and it tanks further.


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## HaroldCrump

jamesbe said:


> I saw that cut announcement it had to be done. Now I'd be surprised if a big sell off doesn't happen and it tanks further.


The big sell off has already happened...it happened within seconds of the dividend cut announcement.
Stock dropped > 40% within a few minutes.
It is now making its way fast into the elite group of penny stocks.


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## kcowan

Will they make good on their debt? This is the first stinker I have held since the GMAC bond that was junk status in 2009 but paid off in full in November of that year. This one is due in 2017!


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## jamesbe

Ah darn, should have bought some YLO with play money last week. HUGE gains .. percentage wise.


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## ddkay

Standard & Poor's Ratings Services moved four more companies into speculative territory since its last report, pushing the total number of freshly downgraded issuers to 28 this year.

The four new so-called fallen angels--once investment-grade issuers pushed into junk territory--are Yellow Media Inc. (YLO.T, YLWPF), Polkomtel SA , Sunoco Inc. (SUN) and Citic Pacific Ltd. (0267.HK, CTPCY). The tally through Aug. 9 is now twice the number of fallen angels seen the same time last year, S&P said.

This year's fallen angels together accounted for $226.3 billion of rated debt, far more than the $68.1 billion worth tied to the 23 issuers the ratings company upgraded to investment-grade this year.

At the same time, the number of potential fallen angels--those on the verge of junk-status with negative outlooks or credit watches--fell by one to 40 and now accounts for $323.5 billion of rated debt.

-By Drew FitzGerald , Dow Jones Newswires; 212-416-2909; [email protected] dowjones.com

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
08-17-11 1315ET 
Copyright (c) 2011 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.


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## HaroldCrump

....and the other shoe drops.
The dividend is completely suspended.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ye...ructure-2011-09-28-63130?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Next stop : the bankruptcy court?


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## Sampson

HaroldCrump said:


> Next stop : the bankruptcy court?


Agreed. 

Still happy holding the bonds? Or will you consider offloading those at some point too? You're probably safe though, still decent cash on the books, so its not like they will be completely $-less to pay back debt right?


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## CanadianCapitalist

This is a stock that used to pay about 30 cents every quarter as a dividend. Stunning to see how far it has now fallen.


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## Cal

I had wondered a few months ago if something like this would be coming for them. 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...debt-is-only-half-the-problem/article2183141/


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## jamesbe

They are a fish out of water.


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## Argonaut

Argonaut said:


> Silver Wheaton should definitely replace Yellow Media on the TSX 60.


Haha, I see now that my statement came true in short order. What are the odds of that.


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## HaroldCrump

Sampson said:


> Still happy holding the bonds? Or will you consider offloading those at some point too? You're probably safe though, still decent cash on the books, so its not like they will be completely $-less to pay back debt right?


Yep, still holding.
I have received a lot in interest over the years (I have the 7.3% not the 5.4% coupons), so I figure even if they pay back 50c. on the $, I will about break even.
Those maturities are still trading above 70c. discount.

It is going to get worse, of course.
Ad revenue will fall further, so the forward earnings projections will keep getting revised downwards with each quarter.

Their only hope now is to get their necks out of the sand, face realities, and put a plan in place to start winding down the business.
Stop issuing new equity or debt, start paying back existing debt and keep selling assets while they still can.
They should wind down the business and close the shutters around 2015 - 2016.
That would be the sensible thing to do, IMHO


----------



## webber22

Wow the stock fell to .13 cents today, another 50% drop in one day. Somebody on this forum put their entire 15k tfsa into ylo not that long ago ....


----------



## larry81

CIBC’s new price target on Yellow Media: zero

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...e-target-on-yellow-media-zero/article2184500/


----------



## HaroldCrump

It closed at 13.5c.
YLO's unraveling is even more dramatic than RIM's.

The 2016 bonds are now trading below 50c. for the first time.
Usually that's a sign of imminent default.

The 2020 ones are at 20c., which is essentially what the Greek bonds are at.


----------



## larry81

i think greece have a better chance to rebound than YLO...


----------



## Argonaut

Although I'm as capitalist as they come, I can't help but feel bad about this story. A lot of wealth has vanished, and a lot of people are involved in the company just trying to do a job. The only cause for a chuckle is Abha saying that he would be "backing up the truck" for Yellow at $1. Kiss of death right there, but I hope he didn't.


----------



## m3s

Argonaut said:


> Although I'm as capitalist as they come, I can't help but feel bad about this story.


Nothing has fundamentally changed since the start of this thread. They were just as doomed at $6 as they are now a $0.13 I don't feel bad for them at all or anyone who tried to milk the gravy train. YLO could have just bowed out responsibly as their monopoly business diminished.

Trying to carve a new business online is fine, but anyone who knew the first thing about the internet could see they had nothing. They couldn't keep paying an outrageous dividend and outrageous CEO salaries from a saturated online ad business

Even people on forums full of dedicated TA were buying this up as it fell. Seems like people get clouded by past performance and yield and don't even glance into the future at all


----------



## peterk

This stock has been a good lesson for me. That just looking at the numbers is not enough. Just because a company is cheap doesn't necessarily mean it's a good buy. You have to look at the whole picture of a company, not just the numbers.

I somehow got in at 5 and out at 6 on this stock. Horseshoes out my *** at the time I'd say...


----------



## larry81

whats going on with this trashy company ? Up 20% as i speak


----------



## al42

Every Dog has it's day... Don't forget this was way oversold and I think with them cutting the dividend and focusing on paying debt they won't be going bankrupt ant time soon.


----------



## tendim

Glancing the rumour mills some folks have been talking about a buy-out this morning.

But there haven't been any real announcements.


----------



## skiwest

Sold this about a year ago and thank god didn't lose anything. Nice income while it lasted for me any way. Right now its over sold. Of course the the div isn't going to hold if its paying 20%. So why the surprize when the div is gone.

Anyway they still make money but the question is for how long and how much money can they make in the digital age. People still use Yellow pages though not as much.

The common is a crap shoot. I have bought the preffereds and doing well. As long as they pay dividends for the year then I won't be out of pocket even if total crash and burn after that.


----------



## fernandes90

ive been following this stock for awhile and it seems like it has a chance of rebounding a bit more, i only regret not buying more stock when it plummeted. today been trading around $0.37c 

OCT 26 - Went up 30% closed at .495c

OCT 27 - Went down 21% closed at .39c With a high of .61c


----------



## JA2285

Bought at .43.. Saw it get up to 60 at the gym in the early morning.. Around lunch time saw it losing steam, sold at .475 before it dropped to 39.. an 8% gain is better then a 8% lose i suppose!

We've got 1 ex employee at work and 1 spouse of an employee at work and both of them think this thing is heading to 5 or 6 buck.. Not sure why and they cant give me any good reason..


----------



## larry81

JA2285 said:


> We've got 1 ex employee at work and 1 spouse of an employee at work and both of them think this thing is heading to 5 or 6 buck.. Not sure why and they cant give me any good reason..


I heard that as well, i think working for YLO or having relative with YLO affect good judgement.

YLO are so... 90s


----------



## fernandes90

JA2285 said:


> Bought at .43.. Saw it get up to 60 at the gym in the early morning.. Around lunch time saw it losing steam, sold at .475 before it dropped to 39.. an 8% gain is better then a 8% lose i suppose!
> 
> We've got 1 ex employee at work and 1 spouse of an employee at work and both of them think this thing is heading to 5 or 6 buck.. Not sure why and they cant give me any good reason..


i bought at .26, sold at .54. i did fairly well, im thinking about picking back up tomorrow. I see it going to a dollar i cant see them going to 5 or 6 bucks because of all the money they owe and in the time frame. I know they cut their dividends to speed up the process but they are in bad financial shape, although they seem to be a great company. Maybe they think that high cause of a buy out?


----------



## fernandes90

larry81 said:


> I heard that as well, i think working for YLO or having relative with YLO affect good judgement.
> 
> YLO are so... 90s


Whats wrong with the 90s? its a great era...


----------



## JA2285

I'm hoping for some insight before their Q3 results.. Apparently the CEO told them earlier this year that the stock was going to go down big, down to 10 cents.. Well it hit 13 cents and the same CEO is pumping them up. Understandable, if i was a CEO I wouldn't be saying were going down either.

I've pushed them on a potential merger but they don't know anything. The sales reps are busy, they are continuously hiring apparently. 

The whole business model seems like its a dinosaur, but you've seen a change in trying to push this online part of their business. 

I feel like the only logical bet would be an acquisition by a web or technology based company, maybe a search engine or something..


----------



## fernandes90

JA2285 said:


> I'm hoping for some insight before their Q3 results.. Apparently the CEO told them earlier this year that the stock was going to go down big, down to 10 cents.. Well it hit 13 cents and the same CEO is pumping them up. Understandable, if i was a CEO I wouldn't be saying were going down either.
> 
> I've pushed them on a potential merger but they don't know anything. The sales reps are busy, they are continuously hiring apparently.
> 
> The whole business model seems like its a dinosaur, but you've seen a change in trying to push this online part of their business.
> 
> I feel like the only logical bet would be an acquisition by a web or technology based company, maybe a search engine or something..


I was honestly hoping GOOGLE would acquire them. Im debating on buying stock again and sitting on it. November 3 2011 2pm is when they will discuss the 3rd quarter results, so hopefully all these people who say its jumping back up have a reason to it based on knowledge of the results or something.

Re bought at .33 cents today, going to hold till next week hoping for a buyout


----------



## kcowan

$17 to 17 cents

Pretty succinct summary.


----------



## Islenska

I have their bond due in 2014 paying about 6% and currently valued at about $60, wonder if it should be held to maturity.

4


----------



## m3s

YellowPages calls RFD their "crown jewel" Maybe CMF should buy out YLO since they know how to make a better forum

I would like to see everyone dump those books on their doorstep next year if they don't stop distributing those POS


----------



## HaroldCrump

I could be wrong, but this dawg is possibly been the best performer this week.
It's up over 40% since Monday.
Oh, what a travesty.


----------



## fernandes90

> MONTREAL, QUEBEC -- (Marketwire) -- 11/03/11 -- Yellow Media Inc. (TSX:YLO) announced today the approval of the following payments:
> 
> -- Quarterly cash dividend of $0.26563 per First Preferred Shares, Series 1
> (TSX: YLO.PR.A)
> -- Quarterly cash dividend of $0.31250 per First Preferred Shares, Series 2
> (TSX: YLO.PR.B)
> -- Quarterly cash dividend of $0.42188 per First Preferred Shares, Series 3
> (TSX: YLO.PR.C)
> -- Quarterly cash dividend of $0.43125 per First Preferred Shares, Series 5
> (TSX: YLO.PR.D)
> 
> 
> The quarterly cash dividend payments are payable on December 28, 2011 to shareholders of record at the close of business on December 14, 2011.


TSX: YLO.PR.D stocks exploded this morning from prev close at 3.78, it opened at 4.65 and is currently at 4.90 trading. Im glad i swooped up and picked up shares at 3.00.

Common shares are struggling still, it previously closed at .345 and opened at .39 currently hovering around .39-.40 there was decent news Link 1 Link 2
Link 3


----------



## jamesbe

Why the huge increase? Up 32% today!


----------



## Sampson

I suppose people just expect them to continue paying out on preferred shares, but I learned in 2008/09 that preferred share structures mean nothing when a company is falling like this.

I know HaroldC is still confident holding the debt, but that can be equally unsafe.


----------



## HaroldCrump

Sampson said:


> I know HaroldC is still confident holding the debt, but that can be equally unsafe.


I'm hanging on with my fingernails 
As long as they keep paying the pref. dividends, the debt is safe, so this is good news for us.
The suspension of common dividends was the best news.


----------



## fernandes90

its great news, ive been holding on to this stock for awhile and it paid off, made a decent profit especially when people were so doubtful.


----------



## skiwest

fernandes90 said:


> TSX: YLO.PR.D stocks exploded this morning from prev close at 3.78, it opened at 4.65 and is currently at 4.90 trading. Im glad i swooped up and picked up shares at 3.00.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that you a couple of days ago? That was a nice buy. I saw 3.0 and tried to get in but it was already up to 3.6 so decided I already had enough of the D's. I have bought fair sahre of those but average cost is 4.4. Glad loaded up at 2.
Click to expand...


----------



## JA2285

Bought back in yesterday at close for .345... Sold this morning at .38.. 

Have managed to generate 14% profit over 2 trades which isn't bad.. the stock still scares me though..


----------



## HaroldCrump

YLO has dumped LesPAC.com for $72.5M.
The proceeds will be used to reduce the debt.


----------



## humble_pie

ah non pas vrai. I have friends who buy nowhere but thru lesPAC. The ROC will never understand how this worked.


----------



## m3s

lesPAC and autoTrader had lots of potential because they were already established as the more popular place to buy/sell. YLO somehow made both of those sites glitchy and expensive/restrictive enough to drive people away. On the free sites you can add bigger/more pictures and edit your ads as much as you want, with more up-to-date features.. I think YLO figured they could just up the price, hire a "social media" kid, and make easy money


----------



## groceryalerts

The main problem is they are trying to charge in areas where free exists. 

RFD considers even small websites competition and their advertising is drying up.


----------



## Betzy

HaroldCrump said:


> I'm hanging on with my fingernails
> As long as they keep paying the pref. dividends, the debt is safe, so this is good news for us.
> The suspension of common dividends was the best news.


So Does it matter what preferred shares one has? Is there more or less risk in A,B,C,D??
I'm not really sure why they would have 4 types of pref shares?


----------



## HaroldCrump

Betzy said:


> So Does it matter what preferred shares one has? Is there more or less risk in A,B,C,D??
> I'm not really sure why they would have 4 types of pref shares?


I have no idea about their pref. shares.
The letter is the series...usually different year of issue.
The differences would be the features, such as dividend yield, redemption clauses and conditions, fixed rate vs. resets, and general terms and conditions.
You should read the respective prospectus before you buy.
Pref. shares are not easy...I find bonds and commons easier.


----------



## al42

I know that the A's and B's can be converted to common shares at the companies discretion the C's and D's there is no convert to common stipulated.


----------



## scomac

Betzy said:


> So Does it matter what preferred shares one has? Is there more or less risk in A,B,C,D??
> I'm not really sure why they would have 4 types of pref shares?


Yes there are significant differences. James Hymas has written an excellent 13 page research report about the various series of Yellow Pages preferred shares outlining the potential range of returns under various scenarios in the August 2011 edition of PrefLetter. I would encourage anyone who owns YLO preferreds or is considering purchasing them to get a copy of this report. Back issues can be purchased individually.


----------



## skiwest

al42 said:


> I know that the A's and B's can be converted to common shares at the companies discretion the C's and D's there is no convert to common stipulated.


The c and D's are reset prefs with a par value of $25. yes no convert danger I checked that out before I bought the Cs.

I look at it that I bought at $2 so if the can get through a year of paying dividends ( 1.72 plus div tax credit) I'm in for nothing. When things somewhat turnaround, I'm not saying the common will ever be be north of $1 , the upside on the pref could be $25 plus you get paid well to wait.

For the holders of the Cs and Ds , if the convertable pref are converted, which I think the banks will force them to do, there's just money left over to pay interest and div to the holders of Cand Ds.

Look at he price of D vs A. There is more risk in the As which is built into the price.


----------



## Midas

*Yellow Media Inc. (YLO) Dead?*

Think this stock will ever go somewhere again? or is it a fish flapping on the beach?


----------



## gibor365

Midas said:


> Think this stock will ever go somewhere again? or is it a fish flapping on the beach?


Didn't take a look at this disaster for a long time.... but volume are huge 5.2M  

Up today 4%...and I like yield , as per TDW its 120%   (even though I think they stop paying dividends).

P.S. I'm just wondering why this stock is on TSX? Isn't it suppose to be delisted to TSXV?


----------



## newbie

gibor said:


> Didn't take a look at this disaster for a long time.... but volume are huge 5.2M
> Up today 4%...and I like yield , as per TDW its 120% (even though I think they stop paying dividends).
> 
> P.S. I'm just wondering why this stock is on TSX? Isn't it suppose to be delisted to TSXV?


maybe pink sheets?
good for daytrading though, if u have the balls for it


----------



## gibor365

newbie said:


> maybe pink sheets?
> good for daytrading though, if u have the balls for it



No for me  mazal sheli -> hara 

Just took a look at intraday chart.... today it was bounching whole day in 8% range between 12-13 ... but yeaterday more than half day it was bouncing hundreds times between 0.14 - 0.145 -> than suddenly it dropped to 0.125 

and better not to hold it more than one day ...it's like futures ETFs going lower and lower

http://tmx.quotemedia.com/charting.php?qm_page=44848&qm_symbol=YLO

It's freaking rouletta!


----------



## newbie

gibor said:


> No for me  mazal sheli -> hara
> 
> Just took a look at intraday chart.... today it was bounching whole day in 8% range between 12-13 ... but yeaterday more than half day it was bouncing hundreds times between 0.14 - 0.145 -> than suddenly it dropped to 0.125
> 
> and better not to hold it more than one day ...it's like futures ETFs going lower and lower
> 
> http://tmx.quotemedia.com/charting.php?qm_page=44848&qm_symbol=YLO
> 
> It's freaking rouletta!


The glorious russian rouletta
yeah i know.
its the algos dancing in front of ya.
this stock is a real gamble.
Lo Bishfili gam ken.


----------



## kcowan

The think they have one year to rectify the stock price situation, i.e. a reverse split.


----------



## HaroldCrump

To borrow a phrase from Kevin O'Leary : _This is going to ZERO. And Fast_.

Stock has reached a new low at 10c. right now.
Given the unusually high volume, there could be a bankruptcy filing coming on the next few days.

I think the misery is almost over for the shareholders.


----------



## Toronto.gal

I guess those who trade such stocks, are the ones that 'lose their shirts'.

Anyway, I'm sorry for all the affected shareholders.


----------



## HaroldCrump

Toronto.gal said:


> I guess those who trade such stocks are the ones that 'lose their shirts'.


You meant _hold_, not _trade_ right?
It has been an absolute nightmare from hell for buy-and-hold investors.
Traders may have fared slightly better given the wide swings this stock sees between 15c. and over 30c. for last several months.

Fortunately, I have been neither a holder nor a trader of this.

I do have exposure via a bond holding.
The share price see-saw does not affect me personally, but a bankruptcy filing will - esp. if it causes complete or partial write down of debt, which is almost a certainity given their balance sheet condition.


----------



## londoncalling

If this does happen I am interested in how this will affect those that bought the corporate bonds and debentures at a huge discount. I assume the big money managers have this all figured out and is already set into the price of these holdings. With or without specifically using YLO as an example Can anybody offer any wisdom on this? I assume it is quite a risky play but sometimes a guy needs a little excitement and as I don't go to casinos am curious to see what others think. I don't think I would actually buy their debt right now, I am far too risk averse, but am curious to hear others insights.


----------



## Toronto.gal

gibor said:


> It's freaking rouletta!


I agree with you this time! 

Kayn ein hora?  [sprechen sie Deutsch/Jiddisch?]


----------



## Toronto.gal

HaroldCrump said:


> You meant _hold_, not _trade_ right?


I meant both; trading can be dangerous too, if one trades the wrong stock. 

The truly only 'penny' stock I have bought [not traded] is EKDKQ [am up .4 cents btw].


----------



## HaroldCrump

^ agreed, this is highly volatile right now.
It _could_ bounce back to 14c. - 15c. based on news, so there could be a 50% return.
However, a bankruptcy filing is only a matter of time and anyone buying now could be the last fool left holding the bucket.

The unusually high volume and the selling pressure indicates that it is coming soon.

EKDKQ is different because you bought _after_ bankruptcy to participate in the re-structuring and asset sales.


----------



## Toronto.gal

HaroldCrump said:


> EKDKQ is different because you bought _after_ bankruptcy to participate in the re-structuring and asset sales.


Yes, you're right!


----------



## gibor365

Toronto.gal said:


> I agree with you this time!
> 
> Kayn ein hora?  [sprechen sie Deutsch/Jiddisch?]


Nope. My knowledge of Yiddish is extremely limited 
zaj gezund


----------



## jtc

[wrong thread]


----------



## Toronto.gal

gibor said:


> zaj gezund


You mean gezundheit? You too, lol [am so fluent, not!]. 

I meant that you give the rouletta your evil eye.


----------



## newbie

Toronto.gal said:


> You mean gezundheit? You too, lol [am so fluent, not!].
> 
> I meant that you give the rouletta your evil eye.


Tgal
he meant zygzint .
it is something like "all the best"
Gezundheit is German.

irch fastein habisale.
figure that one out.
surprised gibor does not know Yidishe.
he must be younger than i thought.
Gibor ur parents must have spoken Yidishe in mother RUSSIA right?


----------



## gibor365

newbie said:


> Tgal
> he meant zygzint .
> it is something like "all the best"
> Gezundheit is German.
> 
> irch fastein habisale.
> figure that one out.
> surprised gibor does not know Yidishe.
> he must be younger than i thought.
> Gibor ur parents must have spoken Yidishe in mother RUSSIA right?


I meant "Zay gezunt" 

I don't know what you thought about my age, but I'm 45 (not a secret).
No, my parents didn't speak Yidishe... some grands did 

P.S. In USSR, especially in big cities, very small % spoke 
Yidishe


----------



## newbie

gibor said:


> I meant "Zay gezunt"
> 
> I don't know what you thought about my age, but I'm 45 (not a secret).
> No, my parents didn't speak Yidishe... some grands did
> 
> P.S. In USSR, especially in big cities, very small % spoke
> Yidishe


yeah i know 
u say zey gezunt and i say zigzint.
i do not speak but understand some.
my parents are from poland by the way.
small shteitel.
sorry about the age thing , did not mean any harm.
usually the eldest do speak right?
Lo meshane.
Ma she ken Meshane , hasaf shelanu , Ivrit

any chamishim shana ve be 1982 haiti be milchemet halevanon.


----------



## gibor365

newbie said:


> yeah i know
> u say zey gezunt and i say zigzint.
> i do not speak but understand some.
> my parents are from poland by the way.
> small shteitel.
> sorry about the age thing , did not mean any harm.
> usually the eldest do speak right?
> Lo meshane.
> Ma she ken Meshane , hasaf shelanu , Ivrit
> 
> any chamishim shana ve be 1982 haiti be milchemet halevanon.


Usually eldery ppl who lived in "Mestechko" spoke Yidishe. I like Yidishe songs, esp The Barry Sisters.  And for teaching Ivrit in USSR, ppl went to prison (for antisoviet propaganda)...


----------



## newbie

gibor said:


> Usually eldery ppl who lived in "Mestechko" spoke Yidishe. I like Yidishe songs, esp The Barry Sisters.  And for teaching Ivrit in USSR, ppl went to prison (for antisoviet propaganda)...


i am well aware of the russian opression on the jewish people.
i am sure it was not a good time for you while living there .
military service there was mandatory right?
how did that go for ya being Yehudi?


----------



## HaroldCrump

Stock is up nearly 100% on announcement of financial re-structuring.
Full details of financial re-structuring are available at:
http://www.ypg.com/en/newsroom/566-yellow-media-inc-announces-recapitalization-transaction


----------



## Brenner

Nice, I made a small bet that this was not going bankrupt. Stock now up 300%, what does this deal value the company at? 

This deal while massively diluting current common stock holders, seems to take a fair bit of debt.


----------



## Dopplegangerr

wow between the last two posts, a matter of a couple hours it doubled in value. Harold did you buy in this morning?


----------



## HaroldCrump

No, I don't have any interest in the common shares.
I posted in case someone is interested in playing this.

I do have a small holding of their bonds, which are getting re-structured as part of this deal.

Kudos to anyone that bought in on Friday or this morning.
And if you bought after my posting, you owe me 50% of the profits ;o)


----------



## Brenner

My timing wasn't that good, I bought in a few months ago with an ACB of around 7 cents, sold today at 10.5 cents. Still a nice profit but yeah would have been nice to triple if I timed better but at least my patience paid off.

This was a speculation play on this news only, I would not recommend going long on this stock. Declining print sales and slow online sales growth is still a problem.


----------



## kcowan

Brenner said:


> I would not recommend going long on this stock. Declining print sales and slow online sales growth is still a problem.


Plus the common shares are going to be diluted by all the conversions...


----------



## HaroldCrump

^ yep, and just like Greece, they kicked the debt can down the road, and agreed to a higher cost of debt (9%).
The new dates in the re-structuring (2018, 2022, etc.) sound funny to say the least.


----------



## Kaitlyn

How do you guys anticipate the stock will fluctuate over the coming days or weeks? It shot up over 300% today and back down a bit to $0.08. It hadn't hit that in quite some time...


----------



## HaroldCrump

Kaitlyn said:


> How do you guys anticipate the stock will fluctuate over the coming days or weeks? It shot up over 300% today and back down a bit to $0.08. It hadn't hit that in quite some time...


It's highly speculative at this time. There is a 200:1 reverse split, in addition to huge upcoming dilution.
They are handing out warrants like grains of sand in Arabia, but those are exercisable only above $31.


----------



## londoncalling

HaroldCrump said:


> No, I don't have any interest in the common shares.
> I posted in case someone is interested in playing this.
> 
> I do have a small holding of their bonds, which are getting re-structured as part of this deal.
> 
> Kudos to anyone that bought in on Friday or this morning.
> And if you bought after my posting, you owe me 50% of the profits ;o)


A friend holds the convertible. I haven't looked into it to carefully. He bought in at around 50c. We both came to the consensus that this announcement was not so good for him. However, it may be better in regards to risk as it decreases the chances of this one hitting zero. Obviously the warrants are almost useless given their exercise price. I haven't looked at it to closely so would be interested in hearing others thoughts on how this effects the bondholders. Obviously entry price would have the hugest effect on the outcome for the bondholders.


----------



## Islenska

Harold I hold some bonds due Apr 2014 paying 5.7%, wonder if I should keep these or dumping them now would pay 0.45 on the dollar.
Interest payments have been regular to this point...



HaroldCrump said:


> No, I don't have any interest in the common shares.
> I posted in case someone is interested in playing this.
> 
> I do have a small holding of their bonds, which are getting re-structured as part of this deal.
> 
> Kudos to anyone that bought in on Friday or this morning.
> And if you bought after my posting, you owe me 50% of the profits ;o)


----------



## HaroldCrump

Islenska said:


> Harold I hold some bonds due Apr 2014 paying 5.7%, wonder if I should keep these or dumping them now would pay 0.45 on the dollar.
> Interest payments have been regular to this point...


No no no, don't dump them for 45c.
You are getting a rather good deal for those.
I believe the 2014 5.7% notes are getting re-structured as well.
If so, you will be transitioned to the 2018 9% *secured* notes, in addition to the other "stuff" like the 8% convertible debentures and common equity.
There is also a cash payout as part of the re-structuring.
Overall, you are netting well over 45c. as part of this re-structuring deal.

Please don't take any action until you read all the documentation related to this, esp. the PDF Q&A that supplements the news release.


----------



## HaroldCrump

londoncalling said:


> A friend holds the convertible. I haven't looked into it to carefully. He bought in at around 50c. We both came to the consensus that this announcement was not so good for him.


Yes, this deal isn't exactly intended for the holders of the convertibles and the prefs.
The CD holders like your friend are going to lose all accrued interest.
The cumulative pref. holders are not going to get any dividends at all.


----------



## kcowan

londoncalling said:


> A friend holds the convertible. I haven't looked into it to carefully. He bought in at around 50c. We both came to the consensus that this announcement was not so good for him...


Here is an article showing that the CD holders get less than Preferred Share holders in the proposed conversion.
CD holders get screwed
But at least they get something!


----------



## HaroldCrump

The way the voting has been structured, the votes of the CD holders won't matter.
Their only recourse is litigation.
However, both the financial intermediateries (BMO and Canaccord) have given a "fair" opinion to the re-structuring.


----------



## londoncalling

Thanks for the update and links Harold and Keith. I don't hold any interest in the company but have been following the yellow story closely so that I don't put myself into a similar situation (value traps).


----------



## Islenska

Harold Good call, thanks for your insight...


----------



## donald

On the other side of the stock.......Wow,are they soaking ''us''(anyone using there publication)I've noticed in the last couple of years the increases(loose math)they are @least charging 4 times inflation each year!(i can't think of any business right now that is as aggressive)My quaterly invoice is now about 6 hun and change(so roughly 2,500.00)a yr(fair size ad thou).

If any cmfers would chime in id like to see your view point on a ''buyer" side of the yellow pages(i'm trying to decide if i should just scrap it)
-I still recieve about 15% of my total business from it(I always ask,how clients find me)So i probably generate about 30k(85% from my network/referals)

Are ''trade" business still a place you go to the yellow pages for?ielumbers/roofers ect?
Does anybody know how much a website costs to create?....under 2,500 a yr?a professional one?(how much work?do i have to put effort into it constantly?)
Im so on the fence if i shoud scrap my ad or not......the only thing holding me back is to have alittle presence in ''print'' advertising and being a ''traditional" service business.....any insights on my plight?Is a website the way 2 go!?and leave the yellow completely?


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## ddkay

People who are not computer-lit will probably still use a hard copy of the yellow pages. These are the same types that don't use online banking, complain about gadgets all the time etc. Old timers, and maybe the Amish.


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## m3s

donald said:


> If any cmfers would chime in id like to see your view point on a ''buyer" side of the yellow pages(i'm trying to decide if i should just scrap it)
> -I still recieve about 15% of my total business from it(I always ask,how clients find me)So i probably generate about 30k(85% from my network/referals)
> 
> Are ''trade" business still a place you go to the yellow pages for?ielumbers/roofers ect?
> Does anybody know how much a website costs to create?....under 2,500 a yr?a professional one?(how much work?do i have to put effort into it constantly?)
> Im so on the fence if i shoud scrap my ad or not......the only thing holding me back is to have alittle presence in ''print'' advertising and being a ''traditional" service business.....any insights on my plight?Is a website the way 2 go!?and leave the yellow completely?


I wouldn't be surprised that 15% came from yellow pages, but I really doubt much of that came from the actual printed pages? Yellow Pages is online as well, so when you Google you still see the Yellow Pages ads. *You can put your business ad on Google Places for free.* This is what killed Yellow Pages revenue imo. Just google Google Places. It's far more interactive for the end user, and I'm fairly confident it would replace most of that 15% if not generate even more business. I would try googling your business now, and ideally try it on Google Places app as it will may become the de facto new "Yellow Pages" for the non-Amish types. For example, if I search for plumber in Google Places on my iPhone, it automatically looks for the closest ones, telles me if they are open now, and I call call/email in one touch, read reviews, get directions etc etc. You may be able to pay Google to bump you up in the searches I'm not sure. I think money would be far better spent on Google than Yellow Pages. You could make your own website but it won't integrate into Google searches unless you get someone very skilled at SEO. But Google Places is free anyways.


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## tendim

donald said:


> I still recieve about 15% of my total business from it(I always ask,how clients find me)So i probably generate about 30k(85% from my network/referals)


I don't use the YellowPages (print). However, I do use the YellowPages app. Assuming that everything in the print version is also in the app version, many businesses get my business because of that.



mode3sour said:


> You can put your business ad on Google Places for free.


You can sell your first born for free too. Sorry, I'm anti-google. There is always a price to pay for being "free". The price in this case isn't incurred on the vendors, but on the buyers who browse the websites through data harvesting. :distress:

Disclosure: Long YLO; I only keep it in my account as a constant reminder to pull out before it's too late. Down 99%, and it would cost more in brokerage fees to sell it. :beaten:


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## AnimeEd

tendim said:


> You can sell your first born for free too. Sorry, I'm anti-google. There is always a price to pay for being "free". The price in this case isn't incurred on the vendors, but on the buyers who browse the websites through data harvesting. :distress:


That's fine but keep in mind that it's not personal opinion that drives the market but the general public consensus.


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## GOB

AnimeEd said:


> That's fine but keep in mind that it's not personal opinion that drives the market but the general public consensus.


Public consensus can shift quite rapidly, especially in the case of a company like Google, where how they portray themselves is such a stark departure to how they actually do business.

Their motto is "do no evil", yet they are consistently breaching people's privacy and are constantly under investigation from various authorities because of their questionable actions.


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## donald

I'll prob keep it(ylo pages)but might downgrade to the smallest ad(i have the 2nd smallest ad sizing now)just irks me how much they raised there prices(i swear 2 yrs ago i was paying about 15/16 hundred not the 25 hundredish im paying now.

Funny thing is though over 50% of my business is from the demo age group between 45-60(reroofing ect-and alot of them are not ''tech",could be wrong though)problem with the tech demo(under 35)they are not my main buyers(but in future years of course they will be)

In any event i am going to get a website up and running(that is trend,mostly all my competitor's are doing this,it is the en-vouge thing to do.....even maybe a twitter acct(have a facebook business page already)I'm just wondering what it would cost to build a ''personal" company website with menu bars/company profile/picture of work completed/our suppliers/customer testimonies ect ect........thanks for the replies!


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## m3s

Why don't you make a Google Places directory anyways? It's free and it's basically what YLO tries to do online, except Google actually knows how the internet works. Yellow Pages was always notoriously horrid at *SEO* and everything web related but luckily they had such well known brand power all these years. They even managed to ruin perfectly good web sites they bought out with their massive stock pile before going under. Regardless of whether Google is data mining, it's how the majority do and find business right now.. Seems crazy to me to ignore them as a business owner. If someone were to replace Google, I doubt it would cost $2500/year if much either. Making a web site used to require programming but now WP makes it no harder than using a computer program and there are many places to host a simple one for free. The hard part is making your random website show up on Google... that's where Google Places comes in, with a link to you web site and email etc. Old people live without cheques in Europe I'm sure old people can adapt to searching Google as well.


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## donald

Thanks Mode,i am going to look into goggle.The one downside is see being very visable on goggle(in my market,city) is being flooded by ''quote shopper's" or ''low margin" work ie:fixing leaks/random,minor repair work(not after that)But im looking @ the negitive!(which i should'nt be)I want to expand but do it intelligently(im lucky because im rooted with builder's work)

Setting up a visa payment acct is also on my list of things to do(mentioning cheques,lol)I'm a smaller outfit(but growing,gaining traction in my market)so i have to go this route also....some many people ask to pay by visa now(for points and there own payment sechudle)


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## HaroldCrump

Debt re-structuring plan approved by majority shareholders and debt holders:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...restructuring-plan/article4523332/?cmpid=rss1

_The company said it will put the debt restructuring plan in place by the end of this month_.

In the last week or so, the bonds have jumped from the mid 40s to the mid 50s.
The 2015s are trading at 57c. today in the secondary market.


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## kcowan

I don't think this outcome was a surprise. The bondholder lawsuit will be the next event.


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## HaroldCrump

kcowan said:


> The bondholder lawsuit will be the next event.


You mean the convertibles holders?
They are the ones that got screwed over.


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## kcowan

HaroldCrump said:


> You mean the convertibles holders?
> They are the ones that got screwed over.


Yes and the banks. They are good company to have on side.


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## Dibs

What has happened to this stock since the restructuring? The company seems to have changed its listing from TSE:YLO to TSE:Y. TSE:Y is up 122% YTD to 14.65. If someone owned one share of TSE:YLO and held on, how many shares of TSE:Y do they own?


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## youngdad3

^^ 1500 shares of YLO gave me 5 TSE:Y

and yes, I keep them, to remind me of my biggest mistake in investment


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## HaroldCrump

The bond holders got the best deal.
The common share holders got mostly screwed.
The pref. share holders got wiped out.


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## swoop_ds

Just wondering what sort of haircut the bond owners got in the restructuring? I ask because this was a recent event and it interests me to see what would happen to bond owners in this sort of situation.


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