# Is it that easy to retire?



## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

I read articles in a Quebec media (in French) which has a section looking at real-life cases provided by readers about their retirement situation and I'm often surprised how they conclude that they are doing fine yet the provided numbers seems pretty low. But there's always a reason why it works, I guess in this case is because of the amazing pension plan.

Here's the situation provided:

The woman is 55, she currently makes $67,000, she has literally no savings but they've just sold their house for $463,000.

Oh, and she has a pension that will give her $48,300/year when she's 58 until 65, then $26,800/year after 65.

The man is 50, he currently makes $82,000, he has $180,000 in his RRSP and $13,000 in savings. And nothing else than his part of the house they've sold.

With the money from the house, they will each put $81,500 in their currently empty TFSA and they were wondering what to do with the remaining $300,000.

They plan to retire before 60. At 58 for her and at 55 for him.

They live on $72,000/year and the financial planner comments that they are all good with their retirement plan and shouldn't run out of money until they are respectively 97 and 95.

Wow, never thought it was that easy to retire early. They have a decent salary, but not so high either considering their age.

And they have a pretty low net worth, I'd argue. That's less than $700,000. Well, I guess her pension plan is probably worth over 500,000$, so it's probably equivalent to a net worth north of $1.2M. Amazing pension plan for someone who makes only $67,000 at 55!

Source (French): Train de vie | L’art d’investir dans l’art


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

Something doesn't add up, where are they gonna live now that they've sold their house? They either need to allocate a bunch of capital to the next house or increase their spending substantially to pay rent.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Thal81 said:


> Something doesn't add up, where are they gonna live now that they've sold their house? They either need to allocate a bunch of capital to the next house or increase their spending substantially to pay rent.


They are now renting at $1,750/month. It says they are trying to see if they enjoy condo life for a few years while they watch what happens with the housing market.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Honestly, yes. I am young, but my retirement 'number' is 650k USD
Will feel very comfortable with that


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

MrBlackhill said:


> They plan to retire before 60. At 58 for her and at 55 for him.
> 
> They live on $72,000/year and the financial planner comments that they are all good with their retirement plan and shouldn't run out of money until they are respectively 97 and 95.


My guess (without knowing more) is they won't retire on 72k / yr.
Just basing that off their incomes with so little savings.


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

For me still working full time at age 61 the issue is not finances but what to do all day 7 days a week after working full time since age 18. For now I plan to keep working as it gives me some exercise and money for family related things. My monthly dividend income is almost equal to my take home pay which works out nicely when the time comes.


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## Freedom2022 (Oct 14, 2021)

With income of $67,000 /year, the pension is $48,300/year when she's 58 until 65, then $26,800/year after 65. That is very generous pension. Lucky her.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

I think they're short of income for retirement, even when accounting for CPP/OAS when they turn 65. And that's even before you add the fact that they have to buy a house or pay rent. But more importantly this is a crappy article that focuses on art as an investment, with retirement planning as a poorly done aside.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

You either live within your means or you don't. The amount of income you receive always becomes secondary to that important point.

Most people will get buy with any reasonable amount of income. The things they use to like to do when they had more money will become significantly less important to them when money become shorter. My wife and I spend less then they are going to earn and we support a house and a cottage. It is all about attitude and what is more important to your life...things, experiences you have probably done 10 or 15 times by now, or freedom.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

Thal81 said:


> I think they're short of income for retirement, even when accounting for CPP/OAS when they turn 65. And that's even before you add the fact that they have to buy a house or pay rent. But more importantly this is a crappy article crappy article that focuses on art as an investment, with retirement planning as a poorly done aside.


It doesn't focus on art as a retirement, it's their question and the article is the reply to their question. They wanted to buy a few paintings and were wondering if it was a good idea. They wanted to spend a one-time $15,000 on art and needed advice considering their retirement plan. The advisor said they better be maxing they TFSA and RRSP, and they gave a few advice about things to think about when investing in paintings. After all, it's their choice.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> I read articles in a Quebec media (in French) which has a section looking at real-life cases provided by readers about their retirement situation and I'm often surprised how they conclude that they are doing fine yet the provided numbers seems pretty low. But there's always a reason why it works, I guess in this case is because of the amazing pension plan.
> 
> Here's the situation provided:
> 
> ...


 ... just based on your translated post above, I hope they didn't have to pay that financial planner a cent. Because the financial planner needs to be back to grade-5? school to upgrade their math.

For one, if the financial planner can accurately predict that both of his clients will live for another 40 years (to 97 & 95) from their "age of retirement of 55 / 58", they ain't gonna to be spending $72K/year with $1.46M of absolute "savings" (sold house, RRSP, current $13K of savings). 

Based on my scrap-paper calculations, they would be lucky to subsist on $12K each per year after "living expenses (rental, food, clothing, medicals, etc)". Okay, bump the above up to $15K each since they'll get CPP/OAS on and after age 65.


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## Ukrainiandude (Aug 25, 2020)

Move to cheaper country with friendlier climate make sense to me.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Right and open your own medical clinic too.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If this couple struggle to retire with an eventual income of $28,000 pension, plus CPP X 2, plus OAS x 2, plus $700,000, there is little hope for others.

Monthly it would look something like.....$2,000 pension, $1600 CPP, $1200 OAS = $5800 a month......plus income from $700,000 even in a savings account.

As retirees they would pay low taxes, given the tax deductions from pension income splitting, pension deduction, and age deduction for each of them.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Right and open your own medical clinic too.


It's actually cheaper and faster to get medical care in many other countries 

Free healthcare in Canada is not free unless you make very little income and if you moved around to make income you get no GP in Canada

Healthcare in Canada is broken and all the good doctors are going to warmer countries themselves


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> It's actually cheaper and faster to get medical care in many other countries
> 
> Free healthcare in Canada is not free unless you make very little income and if you moved around to make income you get no GP in Canada
> 
> Healthcare in Canada is broken and all the good doctors are going to warmer countries themselves


 ... so what are you doing here then?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so what are you doing here then?


Reminding the youth that all the logical wealth and professionals have or will leave this country

Maybe once the boomers lose some influence the zoomers will have enough sense to start adding real value to the world to attract the wealth and professionals back

God save the King. You'll own nothing and you'll love it


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

I can't read the source article and thus some of the info is missing:

In the end I would assess as follows. Liability - Take the present value of 40 years spending in either real or nominal terms discounted to today. Present value of assets is 463K+13K+180K*(1-0.40)+PV(of pension). If the PV_Assets>PV_Liablity they might be fine. If less than they are not fine.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Wouldn't you have to discount the spending as they age and spend less ?


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

I just watched a program on Netflix about money. Mr. Money Moustache gives a rule of thumb that says your investments (probably excluding home) should be 25x your annual expenses. He doesn't give a time component but he was speaking to young couples and the FIRE movement.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Tostig said:


> I just watched a program on Netflix about money. Mr. Money Moustache gives a rule of thumb that says your investments (probably excluding home) should be 25x your annual expenses. He doesn't give a time component but he was speaking to young couples and the FIRE movement.


He based that on the 4% withdrawal rate. Just his simpler way to say the same thing (100/4 is 25)


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

m3s said:


> Reminding the youth that all the logical wealth and professionals have or will leave this country
> 
> Maybe once the boomers lose some influence the zoomers will have enough sense to start adding real value to the world to attract the wealth and professionals back.


 ... still doesn't answer the question ... typical of a dodgie pumper.



> God save the King. You'll own nothing and you'll love it


 ... doesn't matter if it's God save the Kings. None of us own anything in the end unless you have a trick up your sleeve in which case don't hesitate to share it with us. Like MP said, don't let us stop you from dying young. Canadians will love you for this.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I always looked at it from four perspectives.

The first was the 'gap'. The gap between our pension incomes and our spending. The second was the inflation gap that occurs over the retirement period and accounting for it. period. The third was what we wanted our retirement to be and what the f'ast cost of that would be. The fourth was simple.....extra wiggle room for just in case error in any of 1-3.

It came down to some basic math. It would be different for everyone based on the first three numbers. No hard and fast rule other than the bottom line should not be red!


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

sags said:


> Wouldn't you have to discount the spending as they age and spend less ?


We are told they will spend $72k/year. This amount would increase each year with inflation which is why we need to know the assumed rate of inflation on their spending.

We could assume they would spend less, but that is not in the fact pattern given. (Although it is typically the case).


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

CPP and OAS would be indexed to inflation, albeit will likely be higher or lower than actual spending on inflation.

Due to our low spending, we gain more from indexing than we spend on inflation.

Others will be in the opposite position.....if they drive a lot, have a large family, travel, dine out, drink alcohol, etc.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

newfoundlander61 said:


> For me still working full time at age 61 the issue is not finances but what to do all day 7 days a week after working full time since age 18. For now I plan to keep working as it gives me some exercise and money for family related things. My monthly dividend income is almost equal to my take home pay which works out nicely when the time comes.


I have been unemployed for a total of 18 months living just off of savings. Best time of my life man.
It just takes some ingenuity and initiative to be able to organize your own time rather than have someone else do it for you. Highly recommend giving it a try if you are financially ready


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

If I were in a similar situation to the couple in the article I would be hesitant to retire. The pensions seem to be the reason as to why it could even be considered. Like most articles, this is intended to capture attention and not provide much actual information. Too many variables. The couple is in better shape than most which may be a reason why the article says retirement is an option. Media does not get much attention if they advise to work till 65 and save more till then. It would create despair to those who read it that are worse off. That would not sell ads or provide hope. 

I find it interesting that the there are differing opinion. There is general sentiment from those already retired range from it is possible to yes they are fine. Most whose retirement is a ways out are saying that this plan is not sustainable. A couple of thoughts. Those that are retired may have realized they spend less than planned. How much of the previous bull market has provided additional gain and security. Do those that do not have healthy pensions and have seen a huge drop in portfolio this year have the same opinion? Are those still in accumulation correct in thinking they will need more? Is it because they want more? Want to retire sooner? Or are they saving at a rate greater than what is needed? Or are they concerned about the recent economic headwinds (inflation, real estate and market correction)? I believe the answers to these questions is personal and subjective. 

I have opted to move to a lower income, less stressful, less time consuming job in the last 6 months. I do have some concerns on how it will affect my retirement but for now I am satisfied with the decision. It may mean I need to adjust my retirement expectations, either less money or work longer. The goal of retirement and financial independence is always a moving target. I think partly due to changes in our expectations over time.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Pierre P told his caucus that CPP is a "payroill tax" and increases to contributions should be halted.

_"Poilievre called on Trudeau to stop increases to payroll taxes like Employment Insurance (EI) premiums and contributions to the Canada Pension Plan." _

He didn't mention that means the employer's contribution would also be lower, and the CPP benefit in retirement would be less.

Good luck to future retirees if Pierre ever gets elected PM.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

sags said:


> Pierre P told his caucus that CPP is a "tax" and contributions should be lowered.
> 
> He didn't mention that means the employer's contribution would also be lowered, and the CPP benefit in retirement would be less.
> 
> Good luck on your future retirement if Pierre ever gets elected PM.


What PP says during a leadership contest, what he says during an election, and what he says or does if he becomes PM are three entirely different things.

After all he is a politician. And a long term member of the Canadian elite. The latter seems to have been lost on many of his supporters.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A record number of Canadians are retiring, notably in the 55 to 64 age category. It is creating huge labor shortages.

The media is calling it.......The Great Retirement.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-jobs-retirement-economy-1.6580000


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrBlackhill said:


> Oh, and she has a pension that will give her $48,300/year when she's 58 until 65, then $26,800/year after 65.


One way to look at this is, note that initial burst of income is pretty short-lived. The weighted average payout over her lifetime is around 31K. Using a 4% SWR rule of thumb, that's equivalent to about 800K of investments.

In other words, someone with 800K liquid securities can do the same thing. Maybe even 700K.

I have found it useful to convert these figures like that so I can think in terms of net worth. On another forum, there was a post from someone with a 80K pension. That's like having $2 million!


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

sags said:


> Monthly it would look something like.....$2,000 pension, $1600 CPP, $1200 OAS = $5800 a month......plus income from $700,000 even in a savings account.


Yeah and they are from Quebec so I guess we should add the QPP also.

So her amazing pension + their CPP+QPP+OAS, yeah that's certainly $5000-$6000 a month in total to them, which is already $60,000-$72,000 a year.

Add to this that $700,000 from which they can certainly withdraw $30,000 a year.

I think they are good. If they are truly able to live on $72,000 a year in total, they should be good.

That would certainly not be enough to us. But to each their own.

-----

Honestly, I'm having such a hard time estimating the government contributions once I'll retire.

Me and my wife will certainly have a net worth around $3M+ in 20 years and we'll be in our 50s. I want us to retire in our 50s. But I feel like we'll need to reach $4M. Inflation-adjusted, that'll maybe like $2M in present dollars. And my wife will have a federal pension if she keeps working for the federal even though she hates it.

It's so hard to tell if that's enough or too much. We really enjoy traveling, which is a very expensive activity, so our standard of living may actually increase during our retirement.

Or maybe I'm stressing out too much on how much is truly needed at retirement and I should spend a bit more in the present. I always think that enjoying the present is very important.

It's pretty hard to make a plan and a projection. I have a plan, but I keep having doubts every single year when I try to review the realism of than plan, the pros and cons.

And I don't think that an advisor would help. Well, maybe with fiscal planning/projections and maybe with government contribution estimations.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

My understanding is she will receive either CPP or QPP but not both. 

If she is living in Quebec at the time she applies, she would apply for QPP but the payout will take into account both QPP and CPP contributions. If outside Quebec, it's CPP where again, both sets of contributions would factor into the payout.


Though I'm not sure there is any indication of contributions to both QPP and CPP or a move outside Quebec.  


Cheers


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

Tostig said:


> I just watched a program on Netflix about money.


Can you share the name of the program? 
I'm always interested in adding stuff to the watch list.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Eclectic21 said:


> My understanding is she will receive either CPP or QPP but not both.
> 
> If she is living in Quebec at the time she applies, she would apply for QPP but the payout will take into account both QPP and CPP contributions. If outside Quebec, it's CPP where again, both sets of contributions would factor into the payout.
> 
> ...


When I moved from Quebec my QPP was transferred seamlessly to CPP. My CPP yearly contributions schedule recognized my QPP number.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The average person has what….$25 k tucked away for retirement….if that much.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> A record number of Canadians are retiring, notably in the 55 to 64 age category. It is creating huge labor shortages.
> 
> The media is calling it.......The Great Retirement.
> 
> ...


 ... that's okay. Now the C-Suite can now and go fill up their own toilet rolls in the washrooms. 

Better yet, tell all remaining staff below them to bring in their own tissues AND hand sanitizers when using the washrooms or don't go to the bathroom - do the numbers at the desk where the chair serves as both a seat to the commode beneath. Just make sure the door is closed to stave off the stench though! 

For those who don't have a closed office, tough. Do the numbers at home BEFORE coming to the office. Be warned! 

Now that's called "innovations" in saving a TON of money for the year end fat entitled annual bonuses, for the fabulous job done for the C-Suite of course.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

MrBlackhill said:


> Yeah and they are from Quebec so I guess we should add the QPP also.
> 
> So her amazing pension + their CPP+QPP+OAS, yeah that's certainly $5000-$6000 a month in total to them, which is already $60,000-$72,000 a year.
> 
> ...


Weren't you preaching minimalistic lifestyle away from consumerism?


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

milhouse said:


> Can you share the name of the program?
> I'm always interested in adding stuff to the watch list.


Might be this….

Seen “Get Smart With Money” on Netflix yet?



https://www.netflix.com/us/title/81312877?s=i&trkid=13747225&vlang=en&clip=81616644


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

damian13ster said:


> Weren't you preaching minimalistic lifestyle away from consumerism?


I am. Yes, I do take an airplane to meet people I can't reach by foot, bike, bus, train or car. Turns out we have family and friends spread around the world.

And we know that simply taking an airplane with a family of four and with the cost of hotel it already sums up to a few thousands. That's the cost of visiting family and I certainly won't refuse this to my wife, that's nonsense.

Don't play that game. You know you'll always find a way to point out I'm consuming until I tell you I live in the woods in survival mode, gathering my own food and living in a cave.

There's no way to refuse all forms of consumption and that's not the goal. I'm simply wishing people would avoid *over*-consumption and luxury materialism, would move _*towards*_ minimalism, would reduce waste and would make all the "quick wins" environmental choices.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Yeah, I plan to travel during retirement too and I have travelled to well over 30 countries already.
Not sure where you rack up costs, but I have never spent more than 32,000 annually (although on my own, with second person it would likely be close to 48-50k).
And that's while living in one of the highest COL expense countries.
Why would anyone even stay in Canada during retirement, especially with family worldwide?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

One reason why one stays approximately half of each year is to maintain residency and avoid 'deemed disposition' of capital holdings that have large unrealized capital gains. Imagine, as an example, someone with $1M of unrealized cap gains paying income taxes on $500k of income?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> One reason why one stays approximately half of each year is to maintain residency and avoid 'deemed disposition' of capital holdings that have large unrealized capital gains. Imagine, as an example, someone with $1M of unrealized cap gains paying income taxes on $500k of income?


We explored this with our accountant when we retired. We had sold our home, our possessions were in storage. We could go anywhere.

Once we worked through the details our understanding was that it was so much easier to say this than it was to accomplish it. 

We were advised that there are lots of potential CRA roadblocks. Deemed dispositions is one thing. Future re-assessments was an even larger potential issue should CRA object or investigate our revised residency status.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

damian13ster said:


> Not sure where you rack up costs, but I have never spent more than 32,000 annually


You're able to live on 32K annually? That's impressive.

Do you own a paid-off home, or does the 32K include rent/mortgage?


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

damian13ster said:


> Not sure where you rack up costs, but I have never spent more than 32,000 annually (although on my own, with second person it would likely be close to 48-50k).


Family of 4, four tickets is at the very least 4x $750, which is already $3,000.

With a family a four, I would take a hotel instead of couch surfing. That's $1,000 a week in Europe.

So if you're gone two weeks, that's already at the very least $5,000. That's for one travel.

How much does it cost you to travel with wife and two teenagers kids? That's no way comparable to when I was single traveling last minute flights with my backpack and couch surfing for free.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Travel costs vary widely. Based on where you travel, how you travel, and when you travel.

We spend far more in the UK or Northern Europe than we do in Turkey, Greece, or even Sicily for that matter.

We spend far less per week in Thailand, Vietnam, and Malaysia during winter trips than we spend when we add few weeks in Australia or our 2 night stopovers in Hawaii on the way home.

Sometimes it comes down to choice. If you want to eat western style food for dinner SE Asia it will cost you far more than dining at a local family restaurant and eating local fare. We love Thai food so this has worked out well for us. Same in Vietnam ,and Malaysia

It also comes down to knowing how to travel and get the most for your money. The seaside condo stay that we had on Zakynthos, Greece in Oct prior to covid was 500 euro on Booking.com. With full payment immediately...two days before our arrival.

We tracked down the owner on the internet and did a cash deal for 250 euro. Took me all of 5 minutes to find him and email. We met him there, viewed the property, and completed the deal.

We will stay in a five star hotel in Bangkok or KL, complete with an amazing international breakfast, for the price of a three star Toronto Airport hotel with a bagel breakfast.

Regional air in South Africa is far more expensive than Canada. Regional air in SE Asia and Europe (and often in Australia) is much less expensive than air in Canada or USA for similar flight durations.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Yep, plus flights out of Canada tend to be expensive, but once one is on the road they are dirt cheap. If you have one week then flights are high cost, if you are retired and trips can be 1-2 months, it is really hard to spend more than one would do in Canada anywhere abroad, other than Benelux countries, Scandinavia, or Australia.

The plan for me is a place in southern Spain, Italy, or Portugal. Including travel about 35% of time, the COL will be around 2,200 USD/month for a couple


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

damian13ster said:


> Yep, plus flights out of Canada tend to be expensive, but once one is on the road they are dirt cheap. If you have one week then flights are high cost, if you are retired and trips can be 1-2 months, it is really hard to spend more than one would do in Canada anywhere abroad, other than Benelux countries, Scandinavia, or Australia.
> 
> The plan for me is a place in southern Spain, Italy, or Portugal. Including travel about 35% of time, the COL will be around 2,200 USD/month for a couple


We recently returned from five weeks in Portugal. It was the first time we have not rented a car. It was $100 less expensive to fly to Madeira from Toronto on TAP than it was to fly to Lisbon...even though we changed planes in Lisbon. 

Our flight back to LIsbon from Madeira was approx 90 minutes. Cost was $50. each on Easyjet, all in. We paid to select our seats. We travel with carry on so no bag charges.

We were amazed at how inexpensive and good the rail service was. Plus half price discounts for seniors and/or special book in advance fares.

Our rail fare from Lisbon-Algarve (Portimao), about 300KM, was 12.25 euro each. That is $16-17CAD.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ian said:


> We recently returned from five weeks in Portugal. It was the first time we have not rented a car. It was $100 less expensive to fly to Madeira on TAP than it was to fly to Lisbon...even though we changed planes in Lisbon. Our flight back to LIsbon was approx 90 minutes. Cost was $50. each on Easyjet, all in. We paid to select our seats. We travel with carry on so no bag charges.
> 
> We were amazed at how inexpensive and good the rail service was. Plus half price discounts for seniors and/or special book five days in advance rail fares. Lisbon-Algarve rail fare was 12.25 euro.


Why didn't you just book the flight to Madeira and not board in Lisbon instead of flying back to Lisbon 

I used to be a frequent flyer/traveler and this was common but haven't been travelling/flying since the pandemic. Not sure if they closed that silly loophole somehow or why it wouldn't work there. One-way trips are always expensive so you just book the cheapest two-way and don't come back. Play stupid games get stupid results

Rail is awesome in Europe. I owned a car in Europe and still used rail whenever I could


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

m3s said:


> Why didn't you just book the flight to Madeira and not board in Lisbon instead of flying back to Lisbon
> 
> I used to be a frequent flyer/traveler and this was common but haven't been travelling/flying since the pandemic. Not sure if they closed that silly loophole somehow or why it wouldn't work there. One-way trips are always expensive so you just book the cheapest two-way and don't come back. Play stupid games get stupid results
> 
> Rail is awesome in Europe. I owned a car in Europe and still used rail whenever I could


We did book Toronto-Madeira on TAP. We changed planes in Lisbon. Our one way flight cost for Madeira was $100. less that the cost of the same flight to Lisbon only. Same day, same time, same flight.

The base cost of our flights from Toronto-Madeira, and Faro-Toronto we close the price of a Toronto-Calgary return ticket. The base fare on our Faro-Toronto fare in late June was $295 CAD. Base one way fare Toronto-Madeira in May was $425. It was considerably more expensive to fly TAP from Faro-Toronto AND it involved changing planes in Lisbon. Transat was direcct. Three days later we paid $260. each one way to fly to Calgary on a late night flight. And we were very lucky to get the fare. Most of the others were 500-600 one way at that time. 

Our flight from Faro-Toronto on Transat was 7 hours late. BUT.....we made a claim for compensation under the EU261 consumer air rules for 600euro each. Transat sent us each a check for $785 CAD each within the prescribed 30 day time from acknowledgement of the claiim.

There are good deal on one way flight. IcelandAir, Transat, TAP. 

We have also bought one way consolidator flights on BA from Toronto-Istanbul for a very attractive price. Failing that we do a return but fly into one city and fly home from another.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ian said:


> We did book Toronto-Madeira on TAP. We changed planes in Lisbon. Our one way flight cost for Madeira was $100. less that the cost of the same flight to Lisbon only. Same day, same time, same flight.


Maybe I misunderstand what you did

I'm saying just leave the airport in Lisbon instead of changing planes and then flying back. This at least used to be a common tactic (no checked luggage of course)

Something to do with they can charge more to major destinations


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

m3s said:


> Maybe I misunderstand what you did
> 
> I'm saying just leave the airport in Lisbon instead of changing planes and then flying back. This at least used to be a common tactic (no checked luggage of course)
> 
> Something to do with they can charge more to major destinations


I've seen them cancel the return leg in the past when doing this. But yes. Very good technique. 

Aside, trains are free in Spain at the moment. Nice way to help people fight inflation and help the enviro causes.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

m3s said:


> Maybe I misunderstand what you did
> 
> I'm saying just leave the airport in Lisbon instead of changing planes and then flying back. This at least used to be a common tactic (no checked luggage of course)
> 
> Something to do with they can charge more to major destinations


Some airlines put you on a blacklist if you do that. But yeah, I seem to remember there being websites that search for deals this way as well


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It is of course always good to plan for retirement but keep in mind things and plans can change. 

Our financial situation changed drastically for the better n the last 7 years prior to retirement at 59. And we had planned on 62.

Our post retirement life changed completely in terms of housing, travel, etc. Right down to our eating habits. We spent considerably less on turning the lights on than planned and much more on travel. Lots of other anticipated expense items did not materialize. And new ones popped up. We decided not to new vehicles. Not because we could not afford to but because our use was so low that it made no sense. And I hate shopping.

So be prepared for changes along the way. Fortunately I worked in a environment that was changing all the time so change was not an issue for me. 

It is an adventure. Just be prepared to bob and weave with change and make the best of it.


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## robfordlives (Sep 18, 2014)

If you have the time, IMO travel becomes much cheaper. In Northern Italy you can find houses for rent for an entire month for $400 Euros. No, you won't find them on airbnb. Most idiots go to Venice and spend $500 per night on a hotel. Why not pay $50 a night for a villa in the hills where Prosecco is made and take a 1 hour train ride to Venice instead? Oh by the way a dozen eggs, the best you will ever have in your life, is 75 cents. Groceries are dirt cheap. Excellent bottle of wine 4 euros. People want to rush on vacation and that costs them.


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## kalie (Jun 19, 2021)

sounds great! Would love to know how to find these places from canada though 🙏


robfordlives said:


> If you have the time, IMO travel becomes much cheaper. In Northern Italy you can find houses for rent for an entire month for $400 Euros. No, you won't find them on airbnb. Most idiots go to Venice and spend $500 per night on a hotel. Why not pay $50 a night for a villa in the hills where Prosecco is made and take a 1 hour train ride to Venice instead? Oh by the way a dozen eggs, the best you will ever have in your life, is 75 cents. Groceries are dirt cheap. Excellent bottle of wine 4 euros. People want to rush on vacation and that costs them.
> [/QUOTEzz


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

kalie said:


> sounds great! Would love to know how to find these places from canada though 🙏


Just look at local rental sites instead of expedias/airbnbs. 
You can still locate them online


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

robfordlives said:


> If you have the time, IMO travel becomes much cheaper. In Northern Italy you can find houses for rent for an entire month for $400 Euros. No, you won't find them on airbnb. Most idiots go to Venice and spend $500 per night on a hotel. Why not pay $50 a night for a villa in the hills where Prosecco is made and take a 1 hour train ride to Venice instead? Oh by the way a dozen eggs, the best you will ever have in your life, is 75 cents. Groceries are dirt cheap. Excellent bottle of wine 4 euros. People want to rush on vacation and that costs them.


Yup I lived and travelled europe for a few years

I remember Slovenia being even cheaper and it borders northern Italy

Lots of hidden gems in Europe pretty much anywhere that isn't tourist infested


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## Johnny199r (May 20, 2014)

robfordlives said:


> If you have the time, IMO travel becomes much cheaper. In Northern Italy you can find houses for rent for an entire month for $400 Euros. No, you won't find them on airbnb. Most idiots go to Venice and spend $500 per night on a hotel. Why not pay $50 a night for a villa in the hills where Prosecco is made and take a 1 hour train ride to Venice instead? Oh by the way a dozen eggs, the best you will ever have in your life, is 75 cents. Groceries are dirt cheap. Excellent bottle of wine 4 euros. People want to rush on vacation and that costs them.


Dont disagree, but how does one set that up if they don’t speak the local language or have any connections to the region?


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

Johnny199r said:


> Dont disagree, but how does one set that up if they don’t speak the local language or have any connections to the region?


pretty much entire Europe (outside of France, but that's not lack of knowledge, but stubbornness) speaks English


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

It doesn't require much effort to pick up some basic phrases and vocabulary of a foreign language. In my experience that little bit of learning tends to go a long way with other language speakers that are fluent in English.


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## damian13ster (Apr 19, 2021)

londoncalling said:


> It doesn't require much effort to pick up some basic phrases and vocabulary of a foreign language. In my experience that little bit of learning tends to go a long way with other language speakers that are fluent in English.


Plus, I read a statistic that higher percentage of Swedes speaks english than percentage of Canadians


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## Gothenburg83 (Dec 30, 2021)

damian13ster said:


> pretty much entire Europe (outside of France, but that's not lack of knowledge, but stubbornness) speaks English


This is not my experience of France. When I used to travel to Paris for work I do recall that people of Paris had attitude just like people in NY NY but to be honest I think Paris is not a destination in France that I'd go to for vacation. France has so many impressive regions to visit and my school boy French usually means I have no insurmountable problems. The Pyrenees region is an area I will never tire of visiting and that area has all kinds of dialects.


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