# Financial well-being and clutter



## Dave (Apr 5, 2009)

I took some extendend time off lately and have been agressively decluttering my house as part of spring cleaining. I have always been struggling with clutter since I did not have much as a kid and my family was super furgal out of necessity. However, I noticed that now that I have an emergency fund and a substantial amount of savings, I have less difficulty in letting stuff go. I no longer feel the the anxiety that I might one day be deprived or left wanting if I throw away an old t-shirt or mug I have not used for the past 5 years. I no longer feel the implulse to sell everything on kijiji for 2-3$ while it keeps sitting in boxes for months. I no longer feel defined by my high school memorabilia. If I throw away something that I may happen to need in the future, I know that I can go and buy it anytime. That feels liberating. 

What are your insights on clutter on as you progress on your road to financial independence ?

Dave


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi, Dave

There is a reason why Gail on till debt do us part does a quick look around the home, garage & yard & that is to see where the money is going.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

For $2-3 just have a yard sale.

If I don't use something for a year.....generally speaking....its out. Not a fan of clutter or stuff for the most part.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Hey Dave,

Interesting post. 

I don't have a substantial amount of savings yet, working on it, but I can see where you are coming from. As I age, I want less clutter. We're definitely not minimalists around our house but we don't keep tons of "stuff". Our general rule is, if we haven't used it or worn something in the last 5 years, I/we probably never will so I have little issue selling stuff or giving it away to those that are less fortunate.

Keeping only what is used and is essential keeps us organized and more focused, which helps our road to financial independence.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I only throw something away if its utility is exhausted; otherwise it gets donated to one of the local thrift shops. I agree that it's not worth wasting time on Kijiji for the sake of $3, but I hate how everything is viewed as disposable nowadays. The idea that "if I need something later I can just re-buy it" doesn't seem very efficient, but the thrift shop provides another option there as well. I hope people continue to donate their unused stuff rather than throw it out.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

We go through our closets once a year and make a pile to go to the salvation army. 
My wife also uses the "one year rule", we have some heated discussions around that one


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## randomthoughts (May 23, 2010)

I dislike clutter, but I'm a bit bad at throwing things away - so I try not to bring things in. This results in a rather bare house, though. Even that's deceptive because I live alone in a medium sized house... so there's probably more stuff than I realize.


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## Dave (Apr 5, 2009)

Nathan, I acutally haul up everything that is still usable to donation bins for shelters or our church. I wrote ''throw away'' as a matter of semantics, meaning getting it out of the house. There is also freecycle, but I have no time for that.

I find that having less helps me to be more productive because I spend less time cleaning up and looking for items lost in the mess. Also, a space that is not cluttered feels more peaceful and this is priceless. As I said before, I used to be a huge pack rat and this is still a journey in progress. Watching ''Hoarders'' and ''Burried Alive'' gave me a serious kick in the ***, and I promised myself that I did not want to end up there. However, I just find it less anxiety generating to let go of not needed items now when I am more financially secure than when I was a poor student.

D.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

My mother, youngest child of a single parent household raised in the depression, has a ***** of a time parting with things. Most she has she worked hard for an bought new.

We buy used all the time. In her defence there was not a good source of used stuff when she was growing up. People knew what they needed and generall stuck to just that. Hand me downs she got were pretty ratty by the time she got them handed off to her.

We by contrast are awash in excess that flows all around us, gently used ,and usually inexpensive. I say inexpensive because I differentiate that term from plain old cheap.
Value Village/Savers and other thrifts, ebay, craigslist, kijiji, in person estate auctions. Good stuff is largely easily bought, and when no longer has good utility for use, out it goes.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, there are certainly some good points being raised here and I agree with most of them. I try to operate on a clutter-free basis as well. I do not keep old, unused items hanging around for long. I set aside the ewaste until I have enough to truck it down to the depot. AND I try to keep the influx of new stuff to a minimum. This generally means using stuff as long as possible. No, I do not wear ratty clothes but I do use things like electronics as long as possible. Cars have to go at the 10-12 year mark. Hobby items are sold on a regular basis to keep shelf space clear for newer and better stuff and I generally sell 10 hobby items for every 1 new one I bring in.

Be careful with donating stuff though. You wouldn't believe the crapola that people donate to various agencies like Salvation Army and such. Old CRT monitors and 486DX computers, damaged clothes, broken toys, 1980s dot matrix printers and such. "Just give it to the poor people". No. Read the website want/don't want lists and/or contact the agency with details first, before dropping off. Many of these agencies are spending a fortune in dumpster rentals because of people who use them more as a garbage dump than any intent to truly help.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

the-royal-mail said:


> Many of these agencies are spending a fortune in dumpster rentals because of people who use them more as a garbage dump than any intent to truly help.


+1

We wouldn't even consider donating something that we didn't think was worthwhile to 'somebody', even if we (personally) have no further use for it......but garbage goes _in_ the garbage.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I am presently making a list of surplus stuff around our household to truck off to the auction hall next friday. 

Dear wife is adding to the list. I would have never suggested she had too many hand bags, but of her own volition there are now almost 10 very lightly used hand bags that will go to see if someone else wants to bid on them.

The key to keeping the clutter down is to revisit the issue regularly.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

I paid $1 for a box of purses at an auction a couple of years ago (there was one bag in there I wanted). Turns out one of the purses had a twoonie in it - I doubled my money!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Decluttering - we had a major project when we moved from an acreage to an apartment (with no basement or garage). Now we just stay on top of it once a year. Home swapping helps keep us motivated.

Donations - I tried to donate a good used sofa and loveseat to charity and none of them were taking large items. So I advertised it on craigslist for $125 and sold it for $90. It was going to cost me $100 to have it taken to the dump.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Ponderling said:


> Dear wife is adding to the list.


Some how I read this wrong initially and thought you were going to add your dear wife to the list!


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

I always find it hard to get rid of any clutter. 

I moved over here last June and still have my house in the UK. There is quite a lot of stuff still in the house as my sister is living there so I didn't need to clear everything. I shipped some furniture over hear but didn't really bring that much. 

Most of what was left behind I haven't even thought about so when I go back for a visit in October everything of any use will be given to charity and any junk just taken down the tip. I think if you haven't needed something within a year then you probably wont need it again.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

liquidfinance said:


> I think if you haven't needed something within a year then you probably wont need it again.


Worked overseas for four years about thirteen years ago now. Went there with wife and four large duffel bags. Came home with same 4 bags, one large suitcase and our first born son.

Stuff we had been away and stored in parent basement from was picked over on a holiday visit two years in. It is amazingly easy to purge when you have been living with less stuff quite happily, and not used the stuff left in storage.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We downsized from a 3600 sq ft home to a 16X8X8 container.

We had the container delivered and unloaded into our rental condo two weeks ago. Even before we opened the container we knew that there were things that we should not have packed. We are now going through the process again. Fortunately we have some storage room and can take our time. We plan to open every one of those boxes. So far, one trip to Goodwill, another planned, and a number of items tagged to go to our daughter who is moving from a condo to house.

I agree about financial independence/reitirement. That plus a fair amount of travel seems to have changed our attitude towards 'accumulation' and even towards rent vs. buy. We were not marathon shoppers/accumulators but we were surprised at how much we had, how much we really did not need, and how much we discarded. We found the process very liberating. I highly recommend it. 

But I am still NOT getting rid of my almost new skill saw and power drill....


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

fraser said:


> But I am still NOT getting rid of my almost new skill saw and power drill....


I kept the power drill but had to purchase a new circular saw. The 1350 sq.ft patio has wooden planters than need work every couple of years.


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

I have loved reading this thread. A good point in the this day and age.:encouragement:

My clutter seems to be lots of papers, articles and such that I have put on one side to read later...:rolleyes2:
Life was way too busy to sit and read when I was working full time.

Now I am wading my way through old papers and I am able to throw the majority out for recycle but some I am keeping.
Hopefully in a few years they will end up out the door too. 

Clothes, knick knacks and other useful items do go out regularly to the various charities that pick them up at the door.

The tools and such of my late husbands I have not even started on those yet. There are several power drills, band saws, circular saws, compressors, a power washer and other things I do not know what they are. I gave my neighbour the welding equipment as I knew I would never use that.

An interesting thought linking with Financial freedom, so letting go becomes easier.:encouragement:

I am off now to see what else I can let go of. Thank YOU for starting this thread.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i'm so in favour of used, except for machines, hardware, cars. If i knew more about how they worked, ie how to evaluate them, i'd venture into used; but i don't, so i won't.

i can evaluate non-mechanical easily so it's fine to buy used. I much prefer used. Often there's a patina from the previous owner that comes with. Once, he or she loved that salad bowl, garden rake, dress or old silvered barn timber, at least long enough to be its proud owner for a time. Then it becomes my job to steward these items & try to give them a new life.

a while ago i was in a sub-antique store, what they call a vintage store. On a pretty wooden table the merchant had set out an exquisite pair of ladies' opera glasses. They were beyond spectacular. Finely-tooled brass & clad all round with alternating strips of dark grey abalone & palest grey mother-of-pearl. In perfect condition. A jeweller had made them. The metal workings showed they were of french manufacture, sometime between 1850-1890, i thought.

the price was $85.00. They were worth more than a thousand dollars. The vendor said a young girl had just brought them in an hour before. She had told him the opera glasses were a "gift" from her grandmother who didn't want them any longer. He had given her $25.00, he said.

my heart fell. I couldn't help but mention that the glasses probably had been stolen, that they were a valuable museum-quality piece. The vendor looked shocked.

i didn't buy the opera glasses. I left them there & never went back to the store. If the owner had really been the grandmother, in my heart i said a prayer for this poor family & its thieving drug-addict descendent. I bet the vendor marked the price up to $999 & sold them without ever going to the police, though.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Or maybe, just maybe, they actually were a gift from her grandmother.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes I can`t imagine anyone stealing opera glasses. I suspect it was just another diamond in the rough that HP passed up. I admire HP`s principles.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

nah, i'm sticking to my knitting & maintaining that the opera glasses were stolen.

a family prosperous enough to own priceless museum-quality objects like those jewel-encrusted opera glasses, made in Paris 150 years ago, would know their real value precisely.

this was no run-of-the-mill prosperous family. This was a Golden Square Mile family. Its young women of the grandmother's era didn't go to school, they had nannies, governesses, music, math & french teachers who came to the mansion. At the age of 18 they were shipped off, along with their chaperones, to Paris for a year or more.

heirloom jewels were never thrown away to granddaughters or other descendents who'd immediately fence them in the street for $25.00.

$25.00! any true descendent of the family who'd receive the opera glasses as a gift would know what they were worth. Quick call to an antiquaire & the opera glasses would have been out on consignment for $1,200, or perhaps gifted to a museum for a big fat tax receipt.

my betting takes the oliver twist slant. This poor grandmother had dementia, or else she was robbed blind, or else both.

in such a house, opera glasses would be the most perfect item to steal. So easy. All of the grandmother's jewellery & all of the household sterling silver would be locked up 24/7. But opera glasses would have been forgetfully left loose in a drawer. They'd never be missed until their owner set out to search for them, perhaps because she thought she might be going to the opera that evening. Which evening, in the case of our frail matriarch miss Haversham, might never happen.

it would be a year or longer, or possibly forever, before the missing opera glasses would even be noticed.

the fact that our young streetwalker knew to go to a seedy second-hand store, a so-called vintage store where they wouldn't ask questions because they wouldn't even know the value of what she had stolen, is another clue that she knew what she was doing. She knew not to go to a genuine antiquaire from whom she could ask $500.00 in cash, except that he'd bombard her with too many questions about the provenance of the item.

yea, like i said to tiffbou our newly-arrived teacher of literature, finance is chock full of romantic stories ...


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> nah, i'm sticking to my knitting & maintaining that the opera glasses were stolen.
> 
> heirloom jewels were never thrown away to granddaughters or other descendents who'd immediately fence them in the street for $25.00.
> 
> ...


She might have received them from her grandmother, but that grandmother wasn't likely the original owner, if their age is as you say. More likely been handed down from possibly the grandmother's grandmother. The kid may have just received them from her grandmother without knowing they had passed down from a previous generation; i.e. may not have had a clue as to its value or age.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

As we have come to understand and appreciate our financial independence we have noticed that we are definitely not into accumulation and clutter. And this trend grew substantially as our lifestyle changed and we travelled more frequently and for longer periods at a time.

We are no longer reluctant to let unused items go just in case we may need them again at some point in the future. Mind you, that 'some point in the future' is an every diminishing timeframe so this may also have some unknown influence on our change in attitude.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Our commitment to getting rid of stuff is counter-balanced by willingness to repurchase stuff in case it gets needed again (or renting in the case of tools). This happens very seldom and when it does, the choices are so much better now that we have never regretted our lean living style.

When we had a triple-car garage and lots of basement storage, often just trying to find things defeated the purpose of keeping them.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Well, back from a week away backwoods canoeing, and a cheque has arrived from my clean out and sell off at the auction. 

I cleared $475 for stuff that was just weighing us down, mostly either given/donated to us, or bought at yard sales over time.

Now to resist buying more stuff to fill the now vacant spaces.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I love Antiques and have quite the collection of tea cups and Wedgewood Rare Blue .I need to stop buying it now though as I have too many displays filled with my Aynsley ,it's a curse though as I find $75 tea cups that are easily worth $300 lol


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## mcoursd2006 (May 22, 2012)

We live in a small house in a nice neighbourhood so we really don't have space to store things that we might use in two years. Instead of taking on another mortgage to buy a bigger house in this area so we could store more stuff, we decided that if we need something later but do not want to store it, we would spend the money to buy it later when we need it. In effect we spend money to buy space. 

I like the idea of having empty or open spaces.

Actually this is an interesting blog on the subject.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/07/06/man-sells-motorbike-experiences-bliss/.


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## lb71 (Apr 3, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Be careful with donating stuff though. You wouldn't believe the crapola that people donate to various agencies like Salvation Army and such. Old CRT monitors and 486DX computers, damaged clothes, broken toys, 1980s dot matrix printers and such. "Just give it to the poor people". No. Read the website want/don't want lists and/or contact the agency with details first, before dropping off. Many of these agencies are spending a fortune in dumpster rentals because of people who use them more as a garbage dump than any intent to truly help.


You would be surprised what these agencies do take in though. Last spring we were cleaning out the basement. I had packed up the minivan and was headed to the dump. There were a few items that were in good shape and I stopped in at Goodwill to drop them off. I told the staff there about the stuff I was dropping off at the dump, and they told me to bring it in. A busted vacuum ("someone will buy it for parts"), pieces of carpet and worn out mats ("recyclable" - I guess they make money of recyclables), and chairs with the tears ("we love chairs"). They took all my "garbage", except for the baby change table, which was in good shape, but they didn't take baby items "due to liability issues". I saved myself a trip to the dump and ended up putting the table on the curb.


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## ShowMeTheMoney (Apr 12, 2009)

There is a market for these old electronics. I don't understand it. Our city has recycling for them, you put them out on the curb, separate from the garbage but clearly marked. Every time I have done so, the night before garbage day, it's been gone within an hour, taken not by the city, by who? Where does it go?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

ShowMeTheMoney said:


> Every time I have done so, the night before garbage day, it's been gone within an hour, taken not by the city, by who?


Hoarders. I've seen these people who come and take your garbage. Most of them have gone cuckoo.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ShowMeTheMoney said:


> There is a market for these old electronics. I don't understand it. Our city has recycling for them, you put them out on the curb, separate from the garbage but clearly marked. Every time I have done so, the night before garbage day, it's been gone within an hour, taken not by the city, by who? Where does it go?



i believe that parties grabbing old electronics off curbs & sidewalks are probably reselling them to recycling businesses.

motherboards contain some gold. Recyclers are skilled at extracting it. A few years back i was told that older motherboards contain more gold than newer ones. An older mobo was said to be worth $3-5 to a recycler.

i was also told that sometimes recycling companies picking up from municipalities will find that large offices disposing of their old electronics have unknown inside artists who've already ripped out all the motherboards. An office could contract to dispose of 100 old desktops but when the recyclers arrive to pick up, the mobos are gone.

old CRT tvs don't contain any gold, are therefore nothing but a drain on recyclers, i was told. Their screens are ultra-challenging because they contain lead & therefore are not recyclable. Plasma tvs are even worse, apparently, because they contain mercury.


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## lb71 (Apr 3, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> old CRT tvs don't contain any gold, are therefore nothing but a drain on recyclers, i was told. Their screens are ultra-challenging because they contain lead & therefore are not recyclable. Plasma tvs are even worse, apparently, because they contain mercury.


Last week I put out my last CRT TV. 32" Sony Vega bought in 2001. My buddy and I almost killed ourselves hauling it out of my basement. It was gone in a couple of hours, and they didn't bother taking the stand.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

were you putting this out for a special electronics pickup day? of course the pickers are going to sweep the sidewalks the night & early morning before. 

i'd be surprised if your municipality allows electronics to be set out with regular garbage. Mine doesn't. My muni doesn't have electronics recycling pickup. Residents have to take items to a cramped depot in the municipal yard that's difficult to find, let alone drive to.

items left on curbs as regular garbage are ignored. If still left on sidewalk as darkness falls, householder can even be fined! most residents end up paying a dump collector to remove old heavy electronic items directly from the house.

EDIT: i've heard that in switzerland, electronics recycling depots are usually located far from residential communities & residents complain about having to drive their own old stuff to these depots. Plus - here's the pickle - swiss residents caught trying to throw out an old phone in the regular garbage are subject to stiff fines ...


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

lb71 said:


> Last week I put out my last CRT TV. 32" Sony Vega bought in 2001. My buddy and I almost killed ourselves hauling it out of my basement. It was gone in a couple of hours, and they didn't bother taking the stand.


A lot of people still use their CRT TVs and some even prefer them. My mom will use hers until it breaks, and I'm sure she would grab a free one if she could. For many people, there is simply no reason to upgrade... especially when people are giving away perfectly good ones for free.

I can't convince my uncle to part with his 36". He maintains that it has better picture quality than the new ones.


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## lb71 (Apr 3, 2009)

I'm pretty sure the municipality picks up large items every week. They did take the stand. I just happened to put it out last week since I had help. It had been a while that I wanted to throw it out. Just wasn't being used and I wanted it out of the basement. 

The TV was working, but you wouldn't know it unless you plugged it in.


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## RedRose (Aug 2, 2011)

*DAVE,*


> I find that having less helps me to be more productive because I spend less time cleaning up and looking for items lost in the mess. Also, a *space that is not cluttered feels more peaceful and this is priceless.* As I said before, I used to be a huge pack rat and this is still a journey in progress. Watching ''Hoarders'' and ''Buried Alive'' gave me a serious kick in the ***, and I promised myself that I did not want to end up there. However, I just find it less anxiety generating to let go of not needed items now when I am more financially secure than when I was a poor student.


:encouragement:

*I love your statement re peace and priceless! * I guess this is the reward for clearing the clutter!:encouragement:

That is interesting re the motherboards and gold. I believe Home Depot, Lowes and Staples take recycled electronic stuff. I haven't done it yet.
I have taken bags of used batteries in to Home Depot though.

*I have a problem with Books,* all kinds of text books mainly and of course not many places will take those. I feel bad just putting them into the paper recycle.
*Any suggestions what to do with them?* The majority are Nursing books about 80 of them. 
Heavy to move too! I do want them out of the house soon.
I wish I could donate to students but of course the Universities all want to sell their new editions.

Those Pickers that sweep the side walks before garbage day are proving to be a useful way to get stuff hauled away.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

^ I recycled most of my textbooks. They were bought and paid for years ago, I got the education/diploma and then have enjoyed the benefits ever since. It's okay to move on from these old books

As for other things to get rid of, check the websites of the local salvation army etc to see what sorts of donations they might accept.

There's also kijiji to sell stuff that has some value and is worth your time transacting with someone. Good way to sell good quality (ie. *not* particle board/laminate) furniture and other stuff that still has some value.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I have never bought a TV in my life. I always get the same TV everyone else has, just a few years later, when my friends buy new ones. A few years ago I helped a neighbor carry a 32" CRT TV to the curb. I asked him why he was throwing it out, he said "the sound doesn't work" I said "there is an easy way to fix that" he went "Sh-h-h-h!".

I think he wanted a new TV. I took it home and it works fine.

The previous one, also given to me, was an expensive console job. When I got it the picture was completely messed up and unwatchable. I got a mirror and spent 2 minutes adjusting the color etc. from the back of the set and it worked perfect too.

Have had the chance to pick up a couple of big flat screen TVs but didn't bother. The one I have works fine and these new ones are so big they are hard to pick up. It doesn't seem reasonable that I don't want what was once a $2000 TV for nothing but then, throwing one out doesn't make much sense either . Unless you just want a newer, bigger TV and have money to burn, or "free" money on your credit card.


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## mcoursd2006 (May 22, 2012)

We had CRT TV's that worked fine, but our family was growing and we we running out of space. Replacing them with LCD's mounted on a wall or above a fireplace saved a lot of space, so in essence we were buying more space in our home.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

We are looking at replacing the bulky home theater system with some kind of wireless speaker system. No longer a rack of expensive amplifiers et al.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I have thrown some things out, that I came to deeply regret later.

A box full of 700 post cards comes to mind.

I purchased a couple of boxes at an auction for 5 bucks a box and put them all in one box.

The cards were from the 1930s to the 1960s.

They were from around Canada, the US and the world.

I remember one in particular that was sent from Paris, France in the 1930s as Nazi Germany was approaching the city.

It was from a young man to a young lady in New York, and it expresses his fear over what was to come.

There were a lot of them from the Louvre in Paris. They had the art of the Louvre on the front.

I doubt they were worth anything...............but I immediately regretted tossing them out soon after I did it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

When we moved one time, a big box of hockey/baseball programs got discarded somehow.

They were old programs and one was from the day Denny McLain pitched a perfect game for the Detroit Tigers.

Made me almost as angry as when I came home from high school in the US, and discovered my parents had thrown out all my boxes of sports cards when they had moved while I was away.

What would a couple of Mickey Mantle rookie cards.........or Bobby Orr rookie cards be worth today?

We weren't a wealthy family, and most of the time the only thing I got for Christmas or birthdays was some packs of hockey cards.........so I felt like my entire past had been thrown out.

I don't even want to know what the cards are worth today.

Maybe beware throwing out your kids stuff.........you may regret it later.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

When I was a kid, all our family photos were destroyed by a roof leak that went unnoticed for months, by which time it was too late: the great big cardboard box that held the photos was all mouldy and the photos were all fused together. We managed to rescue about five photos out of several hundred; it was painful for a while to lose all those memories but we survived. ;-)

I've been gradually purging my book collection: I used to take books out of the library and if a book really affected me I'd buy one for myself so I could reread it. But as the decades stretched on and I didn't reread those books, I decided to get rid of them. There are a few that I do reread every few years, and some reference books and field guides that I keep, plus a few children's books that I keep for nostalgic reasons, but the rest are going away. I've gone from about 700 books to fewer than 150 and I might be able to whittle it down to 50-60 essentials. However, e-books are a tempting way to increase one's book collection without taking up any physical space. I'm grateful to have the complete works of Shakespeare on my iPad where I can actually read them; the big thick book they replaced was too heavy to read in bed or take with me on trips.

I aspire to having a minimalist life with virtually no possessions, but it's not going to happen.


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