# Ditching Rogers Cable Internet...



## Berubeland

For those of you who download a lot like me, or even those who don't here is my information about my switch over from Rogers to Teksavvy. 

First of all... Since Rogers implemented traffic shaping, they have slowed down encrypted traffic. For me this had the effect of making my VOIP phone and FAX not work well. That is when I was talking on the phone, my speech would be choppy. My Fax would suffer from "line problems" 

Obviously any downloads would be very slow as well. 

Then in spite of these problems which I was suffering with Rogers added insult to injury and started charging me extra for extra usage. I was paying an extra $50 per month. Then there was the incessant phone calls urging me to subscribe to higher speed /higher download limit which would still result in my having to pay the $50 and pay premium price with no effect on speed whatsoever. 

All in all my internet bill was over $100 per month every month. So...

In August I decided to try a highly recommended new Internet Service Provider, Tek Savvy which had what I needed for about $52 per month. 

After waiting over an hour on hold to disconnect my Internet with Rogers I was told that I would have to wait 30 days to cancel my service. So the cross over point was set for September 14th. 

Rogers did everything they could to screw up the transition, they told Tek Savvy this was a business, when I have a home office and I worked that out, then 2 days before the transfer they emailed Teksavvy that I was using their modem, which was not true. I had to call Rogers numerous times, they claimed that they had no idea what I was asking about. Then Tek Savvy had to send them an email to verify that they problem was resolved and they took over 2 days to respond. 

So on the 14th everything worked like a charm, the first thing in the morning of the 15th I had no internet, except my IPhone. 

So the last few days I have spent hours on hold, getting them to try to resolve the problem. Finally early this morning I had internet! And...my husband tells me our download speed is rocking.

My phone is also working very clearly for the first time in over a year and I got to save $50 per month! So even though in spite of my precautions the entire operation was not without Snafus I'm very happy we made the change. 

I would warn people who work online or have blogs who want to change over that they may experience service outages and should include a back up plan.


----------



## m3s

I've heard a lot of good things about Teksavvy. Luckily where I live I have a local unrestricted ISP

Some people say sites like voip.ms and Teksavvy aren't user friendly enough for the average person, but I think they are just used to being bombarded with marketing bs and contracts/fees hidden behind gimmick promotions. If you don't wait on hold for 2 hrs it can't be a real company right?

This internet throttling and poor equipment is what gives voip a bad name

I can watch 720p HD on youtube and people believe that the internet is not good enough to talk on??


----------



## the-royal-mail

The Internet is crap to talk on and the OP has proven it. Only when they stop playing stupid games with voice quality will I ever consider switching. My phone is always on, costs $40 a month for unlimited LD and NEVER has voice quality issues unless the guy at the other end is on a stupid cell or cordless phone.

And the Internet is hardly fast when you have to keep placing phone calls and sitting on hold and waiting for an agent whenever there's a problem. I'll stick with the tried and true thanks.


----------



## Jungle

Thanks for this post. I am getting ready to drop rogers for tech savvy and not looking foward in dealing with Rogers. I'm fed up with how much my bill has increased and my service has decreased.


----------



## Berubeland

Royal, 

My VOIP phone is working perfectly now finally. No one's trying to send me a fax but I'm sure that's over with now too.

The phone worked perfectly until Rogers started up their traffic shaping machines. I pay $300 annually for phone and that includes unlimited long distance. I also pay 15$ extra monthly for a separate fax line. I signed up like 5 years ago when it was cheaper.


----------



## HaroldCrump

I want to second what the-royal-mail said above.
I'm all for technology and using it to improve our experiences.
In the case of internet usage for voice/video, I think that the technology is there, it's mature enough, and can certainly support this kind of content delivery.

However, there are a couple of things at play here that are preventing it's full exploitation:
- The two big monopolies are actively tampering with the technology to prevent its use in this manner.
They wanna prevent the success of smaller companies that can offer these services at lower costs.
This is why both the two big players have tiered services based on bandwidth usage.
To get more bandwidth, you pay more.
They actively throttle bandwidth to prevent this type of usage.
They include clauses in their contracts that prevent you from using these types of services like Skype, etc.
Anyone on one of the capped bandwidth plan has this clause in their contracts - just read through the fine print.

Secondly, the quality of phone calls is awful.
Vonage is relatively better off than the other ones.
But Skype, etc. is terrible and does not compare with even a half-decent cell phone, let alone true land line.
The other day I was talking to someone who has a VOIP phone and Rogers Cable Internet.
While talking to me, he started downloading a large file.
The quality of the call got so bad that it wasn't even funny.

If we want to leverage the technology fully, the first step is to break the monopoly of Big Bell and Rippy Rogers.


----------



## brad

HaroldCrump said:


> Secondly, the quality of phone calls is awful.
> Vonage is relatively better off than the other ones.
> But Skype, etc. is terrible and does not compare with even a half-decent cell phone, let alone true land line.


Well, hold on here. I have an unlimited-bandwidth DSL plan from Bell that I've had since I moved here in 2002. I use Vonage for my work phone and have only rarely experienced dropped calls or voice quality issues -- true, it's usually when I'm uploading or downloading a large file at the same time. But it's rare enough that I am comfortable using it as my professional phone.

Skype is even better, in my experience. I've made some calls on Skype using WiFi and my iPod Touch, and the sound quality is better than anything I've ever heard even on a dedicated land line. It literally sounds like the person is in the room with you. I talked for an hour with a friend of mine in Seattle recently on Skype and the sound quality was amazing, both on his end and mine. I have friends who give music lessons via Skype.

Bell does keep trying to get me to "upgrade" to their fiber-optic service and I keep refusing because that service has bandwidth caps and I don't want to worry about whether I'm going to bump into a cap. I've looked at my monthly usage and it generally works out to between 7 and 10 gigs/month, but because I work at home and need to be able to transfer large files and have long conversations with clients, I don't want my bandwith to be capped.


----------



## m3s

Keep paying Rogers and Bell for you phone then. Some of you remind me of the Xerox bosses who thought the PC and mouse was a joke.

Your friend has throttled internet as explained by Berubeland and obviously doesn't have a QoS router if downloading a file affects voip

During the Olympics I had a dozen or more people streaming the games, downloading who knows what and mostly talking on voip/video chat with their families without a glitch - all on 10Mbps shaw internet. We didn't even hit their dl limit, which they actually tell you about and warn you if you do

Anyways it's only a matter of time before they embrace the technology. Back in the day they used to claim you needed a landline to have DSL. The oligopoly is just stalling until they can market you into a more expensive fiber optic network, then all of a sudden voip will be the latest and greatest thing. Voice doesn't require 1Gbps but I'm fine with that


----------



## m3s

brad said:


> Skype is even better, in my experience. I've made some calls on Skype using WiFi and my iPod Touch, and the sound quality is better than anything I've ever heard even on a dedicated land line. It literally sounds like the person is in the room with you.


I didn't see your post before mine, but I agree 100%. My iPhone on a QoS and 3Mbps (and really limited by 0.8Mbps upload) sounds amazing on VoIP, especially when talking to another person on the same thing. I don't even need WiFi, in fact my home internet is barely any faster than 3G

Reason is the iPhone has a noise cancelling mic and good speaker

I wouldn't worry about your dl cap Brad unless you are downloading a lot of 720p. I downloaded 100GB in a day once because a friend asked for like 20 tv seasons before he left for Darfur. Normally I use about the same as you


----------



## Berubeland

Mode just reminded me of the nightmare I experienced when I told Bell I didn't need a their phone anymore and switched to a VOIP phone. I also had their internet service. This would be called a "dry loop" internet service because it doesn't include a phone line. 

Well as soon as I canceled my phone their internet didn't work, then they told me that if canceled my internet they would charge me $100 even though it wasn't working. 

Believe me, I am a very active unhappy customer, I called Bell several times per day for "updates" They had an endless number of tickets and escalations on the problem, for about a month and a half. Finally one of their customer service reps was kind enough to send me my money for service I had not received and cancel my service without charging me $100. 

Since then I have not paid Bell Canada even 1$ I am so proud. Rogers I have 2 cell phones with one without a contract, one with a contract but really i would rather not send them any more money either.


----------



## the-royal-mail

"I called Bell several times per day for "updates" They had an endless number of tickets and escalations on the problem, for about a month and a half."

See, this is what I mean. I think what a lot of people don't get is that I'm a busy guy and my free time is valuable and prized to me. I don't have the patience to deal with what you are describing. So while people deal with that nonsense, dropped calls, complicated and predatory cell phone "plans", needing to keep the thing charged, throttling, worrying about talking when files download, I simply pick up the phone when it rings and it's always on, never needs to be charged, doesn't involve me fussing with customer service 1-800 numbers and all the other nonsense described above. Through Ice Storm '98 the phone service was rock solid and I didn't have to do a thing. Same thing with Blackout '03. It's much more peaceful here.


----------



## m3s

Yabut..you can save enough money in between the storms to buy a generator, canned food and shotgun


----------



## brad

I do think it's important to keep in mind why people use VOIP: it's to save money, and in some cases considerable sums of money. Saving money often entails a bit of effort or inconvenience, which explains why people are willing to endure these headaches to get their VOIP service.

I have Vonage's relatively expensive "unlimited calling anywhere" plan, but that works perfectly for my case because I'm on the phone with my clients in the US for sometimes three or four hours per day, plus my girlfriend can call her family in France and talk for an hour or more without worrying what it will cost. My clients and colleagues in Washington DC can also dial a local number (and pay nothing) to call me in Montreal.

If I want total reliability, I'll get a landline. And truth be told, we have one here -- it's my girlfriend's number that she's had for 20 years, and she pays for it. I pay for the Vonage and we use it for all our long-distance calling. Her basic phone service comes out to only slightly less than what I pay for Vonage each month, and yet with Vonage I'm making many hours of international calls.


----------



## Berubeland

the-royal-mail said:


> "I called Bell several times per day for "updates" They had an endless number of tickets and escalations on the problem, for about a month and a half."
> 
> See, this is what I mean. I think what a lot of people don't get is that I'm a busy guy and my free time is valuable and prized to me. I don't have the patience to deal with what you are describing. So while people deal with that nonsense, dropped calls, complicated and predatory cell phone "plans", needing to keep the thing charged, throttling, worrying about talking when files download, I simply pick up the phone when it rings and it's always on, never needs to be charged, doesn't involve me fussing with customer service 1-800 numbers and all the other nonsense described above. Through Ice Storm '98 the phone service was rock solid and I didn't have to do a thing. Same thing with Blackout '03. It's much more peaceful here.


Had I known...that Bell was going to be so illegal, and what I was going to have to go through...I might have kept them on. However once I started the process, I just got mad, I wasn't trying to cancel all their services, just the phone line which was costing me about $300 per month, my family lives out of town, my hubby's family lives in the States and their prices were a lot more unreasonable back then. Once I started the process, I got very unhappy in a hurry, so unhappy in fact that years later they still have not accomplished to get one single penny out of me. 

It's the same with Rogers, had they not changed their service, and increased their prices, I would still be a Rogers customer.


----------



## m3s

the-royal-mail said:


> See, this is what I mean. I think what a lot of people don't get is that I'm a busy guy and my free time is valuable and prized to me. I don't have the patience to deal with what you are describing.


This is precisely why competition doesn't work, and why Bell and Rogers can treat us like s$!t and still make obscene profits.

I chose to buy their stocks and get my service elsewhere


----------



## the-royal-mail

I get my service elsewhere too. Haven't been with those companies for several years. Competition is wonderful thing but it doesn't exist when everyone thinks the big-box company is the way to go. Smaller is better.


----------



## Square Root

The phone and cable companies are the worst for service. The Banks love them because in comparison they look so good. Dropped our land line in Toronto a while back. Saved $50/month and all we were getting were marketing calls anyway.


----------



## kcowan

I downgrade our line to POTS without Vmail during the winter. This has eliminated the telemarketing calls. By the time the rediscover us in the summer, we are leaving again.

VOIP is great but you have to be capable of implementing it. It is not for those who are not tech savvy. We are using it now to call from Italy to Canada. We use it in Mexico each winter.


----------



## wheel

I've been using voip for my business for 3+ years, the last year on teksavvy. No problems. Once in a while it gets choppy, but it's the exception. No way would I go back to regular phone line for my business. And given how Bell treated us the last time we tried to move a cell phone over, I'm actively working to move my home phone off them as well.

For a small business, here's the kind of stuff I get with voip:
- we have two incoming lines. But those lines are not 'lines'. Each line is actually 5 lines, so I can have 10 simultaneous inbound/outbound calls. Cost? $2.50/month/line. So I pay $5 a month, for more lines than I can possibly use. I pay a penny a minute North America wide, and I'm on the phone a lot. Dirt cheap.
- We moved our office from downtown back to our house earlier this year. Think about how much effort and cost that would be with Bell. On Voip? I shut down the computer, moved it home, plugged it in, and we were live. Total downtime, 2 minutes to drive from the office. Total cost to move those '10' lines - $0. 
- An american company that advertises heavily on TV has some Canadian bleedover. Their voip system identifies Canadian callers. I've got an arrangement with them that their Canadian callers can press 1, and get redirected to me - my phone rings. When we set this up to try it out, total setup cost for me to have a new line just for those calls? $2.50 and about 20 minutes setup on my computer. Basically it cost us nothing to try it out.


----------



## Ben

I've also heard good things about TekSavvy. For users to transmit larger amounts of data, could be worth looking at.

I'm just switched my phone to Cogeco from Bell, combined with Lite internet - $50.94 + HST. The only way I've seen to do better on phone where I live is using VOIP phone, which would require a faster internet connection. Save on the phone, lose on the internet.


----------



## rookie

Using QoS routers like what mode said can overcome throttling attempts by the big guys. i switched my phone line to voip.ms from rogers and porting is in process. if the voice quality gets bad, i will first try a good router with custom firmware and if that doesnt work, rogers internet will also get the boot. teksavvy is still not available in our area. hoping it will be there soon...


----------



## rookie

also, just worried looking at the way teksavvy is growing. i hope they dont join the big 2 and we will then have to face big 3.


----------



## m3s

rookie said:


> Using QoS routers like what mode said can overcome throttling attempts by the big guys. i switched my phone line to voip.ms


QoS and voip.ms is the way to go. The QoS prioritizes connections like voip and gaming

Even the highest quality of voip will not come close to the limits of high speed. The only reason I even pay voip.ms a few $ per month is to call legacy phone numbers. Most of the time I just talk over the internet for free.

Teksavvy down 5000 kbps / up 800 kbps
Skype audio call 30-50 kbps
VoIP.ms G711 high quality 80 kbps
Low Quality VoIP 24 kbps (cell phone)


Now the big 2 are pushing Fiber with 100 Mbps and 80 GB dl caps? Theoretically you could reach the limit in under 15 minutes? Seems to me they just don't want people finding cheaper/better video entertainment and communication. You can stream HD TV over the same infrastructure without a limit to how much TV you can watch

They are just trying to resist technology and charge you as many times as possible for the same bandwidth. If they just charged a fair amount for the 1-cable-you-can-do-everything-on they would lose all the call display/voice mail/text messaging cash cows. They would charge me $1 for this post if they could


----------



## Jungle

Question: I am currently with Rogers. (cable internet) I own my modem. Can I use my old modem for the Teksavvy cable internet or DSL?

The good news is that Teksavvy has cable in my area, but with a lot more speed and downloading. $27.99. I am paying the same with Rogers right now, but I get charged $5-10 for extra usage.


----------



## Berubeland

I used my old modem with Teksavvy. If you go to their website there is a list of all the kinds that will work. 

Tip: make sure you tell Rogers to "release" the modem. This was apparently the hold up with my situation. I have no idea what this means or why Rogers must be told to do it. 

BTW my husband is very happy with the screaming fast downloads we are getting. He's reported that the shows actually download faster than real time! Usually he would have to wait until the next day for the show to finish.


----------



## K-133

My only comment regarding Teksavvy is that they rent their lines from Bell. Bell has recently 'won' a case with CRTC to cap their rented lines. the only catch is that they would have to do this to their clients as well. Effectively, the days of unlimited downloads with Teksavvy is numbered.

If you live in the Waterloo area, Yak Communications has their own fibre network there, and offer a cheap unlimited service.


----------



## Jungle

Berubeland said:


> I used my old modem with Teksavvy. If you go to their website there is a list of all the kinds that will work.
> 
> Tip: make sure you tell Rogers to "release" the modem. This was apparently the hold up with my situation. I have no idea what this means or why Rogers must be told to do it.
> 
> BTW my husband is very happy with the screaming fast downloads we are getting. He's reported that the shows actually download faster than real time! Usually he would have to wait until the next day for the show to finish.


I'm looking into it some more. if anyone can answer these quesitons that would be great

1. How do I know whether or not I need DSL or dry loop
2. What is a MLPPP $4/month charge, what does it do and why would I need it
3. What is a static IP for $4/ month charge, what does it do and why do I need it


----------



## yupislyr

Jungle said:


> I'm looking into it some more. if anyone can answer these quesitons that would be great
> 1. How do I know whether or not I need DSL or dry loop


Do you have an existing land line that is in use that you want to keep? If yes, then you would get regular DSL. If no, then you would get dry loop dsl.



Jungle said:


> 2. What is a MLPPP $4/month charge, what does it do and why would I need it


Bonding together multiple DSL connections to take advantage of higher speeds and/or as a workaround to Bell's throttling of certain applications (typically peer to peer ones)



Jungle said:


> 3. What is a static IP for $4/ month charge, what does it do and why do I need it


If for some reason you need to have the same IP address constantly. Needed if you want to access Usenet (newsgroups). If you order MLPPP for 4$, you can get the static ip as part of that service, and vice versa.

They have a forum here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/teksavvy


----------



## Jungle

Thank you so much. I believe I would need a dry loop DSL, since we have Roger's Home phone. Now techsavvy charges a hook up fee, so it may not be worth it. We'll see what Roger's retentions says. I'm not looking forward in dealing with them, as they are forcing me to upgrade my tier, ever since they implemented caps.


----------



## Addy

I can't seem to find on Teksavvy's website where to find out if they offer service in my city.... I'll call them Monday if need be, but I was hoping it was available online. Does anyone know if they only offer in major cities currently?


----------



## Sherlock

I don't know about Techsavvy but I'm with Acanac (another cheap DSL provider) and as far as I know they offer service everywhere Bell does because they're just a Bell reseller.


----------



## K-133

Sherlock said:


> I don't know about Techsavvy but I'm with Acanac (another cheap DSL provider) and as far as I know they offer service everywhere Bell does because they're just a Bell reseller.


Take note that all resellers have additional 'Band Rate' fees attached to services for sites which do not have telephone service.

These rates come from the CRTC and range from $7-$23.


----------



## m3s

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/globe-on-technology/crtc-ruling-handcuffs-competitive-market-teksavvy/article1778211/

Bell owns the network so you can't win.. unless you own BCE shares 

Rogers shares went on a bit of a sale lately too


----------



## Sherlock

K-133 said:


> Take note that all resellers have additional 'Band Rate' fees attached to services for sites which do not have telephone service.
> 
> These rates come from the CRTC and range from $7-$23.


Yes it's called a dry loop, I have it. I'm being charged $9/month for it if I remember correctly. But I believe Bell will also charge you this fee if you don't have phone service, so it has nothing to do with whether you go with a reseller or not.


----------



## kcowan

Bell got permission from the CRTC to charge wholesalers like Techsavvy extra for high usage. This may make it attractive to stick with cable suppliers.


----------



## m3s

Bell has the CRTC wrapped around their finger

Bandwidth is what costs money, not usage. It's just like electricity or water, you need a big enough pipe to support the peak usage. The difference is that information bits are free. Bell has convinced the CRTC they need to charge for the information

The reason is that the way things are going everyone would switch to streaming video and talking on the internet. Bell knows it is more profitable for them to charge for cable and phone so they are discouraging heavy internet usage

The pipe is plenty big enough for streaming video and voice. Bell just wants you to pay them for it as many times as possible


----------



## K-133

mode3sour said:


> The pipe is plenty big enough for streaming video and voice. Bell just wants you to pay them for it as many times as possible


In their defense, it is their asset, and it is their investment. It is a goal to make as much money as possible in the interest of their investment. I'm sure some can appreciate this.

That said, the above concern is a symptom of poor market competition.


----------



## kcowan

Bell's idea is that you pay more for high usage. If anything, the costs per unit should decline as usage increases. That would indicate an efficient market.


----------



## m3s

K-133 said:


> In their defense, it is their asset, and it is their investment. It is a goal to make as much money as possible in the interest of their investment. I'm sure some can appreciate this.
> 
> That said, the above concern is a symptom of poor market competition.


In their defense, Canada is a huge country with a spread out population. I can understand why telecom costs more in Canada

That said if there is no competition, the government needs to regulate it or at least encourage competition. Personally I would rather the government regulate things than open up competition to foreigners. Our Canadian telcos would just become Bell-Telefonica and Rogers-ATT etc.

The way it works now is horrible for consumers and does not encourage innovation. Falling behind in technology can't be good for our economy?



> We believe that the damage Canada is incurring because of the lack of competition—and I’m not talking just about the consumers, but applications, technology, ease of use—is counterproductive. It doesn’t push people to excellence because they have the consumer by the balls.


Globalive financier Naguib Sawiris: 'We will make pain, and they will suffer'


----------



## K-133

Ya - I've personally switched to Globalives services simply to ensure that competition survives.


----------



## m3s

Bell-Rogers-CRTC conglomerate have neutralized Teksavvy with this mandatory usage fee and they will neutralize Globalive using their knock-off discount brands (Fido-Rogers, Koodo-Telus, Solo-Bell etc)

The problem with Wind mobile is your calls get cut off when you try to roam on the big 3's networks.. go figure!


----------



## Jungle

3rd year doing retention, this is what I got from Rogers:

35% off Internet Lite (We own our modem)
30% Off Digital VIP, free standard PVR [no digital access fee waived  ]
$10 off per month home phone, NO system access fee! 
1 year contract

I said yes on the phone, I just want to get it done and over with. 
They said $92.xx month including tax. 

What do you think?


----------



## K-133

> The problem with Wind mobile is your calls get cut off when you try to roam on the big 3's networks.. go figure!


Now I understand what he was saying in the interview posted previously. I've never been on the phone while transferring from Home Zone to Away Zone, so I couldn't tell.

If you're in the city most of the time, as I am, service is pretty good. I haven't had any dropped calls, but every now and then I've noticed a loss of service. I think this can be attributed to weak signals.

I'm contemplating dropping Rogers ISP and simply using my smartphone in hotspot mode for Internet. I'm just not sure how much they throttle down (if at all) after you go over the 5 GB.


----------



## CanadianCapitalist

Jungle said:


> 3rd year doing retention, this is what I got from Rogers:
> 
> 35% off Internet Lite (We own our modem)
> 30% Off Digital VIP, free standard PVR [no digital access fee waived  ]
> $10 off per month home phone, NO system access fee!
> 1 year contract
> 
> I said yes on the phone, I just want to get it done and over with.
> They said $92.xx month including tax.
> 
> What do you think?


We only have basic cable from Rogers but even here you can score a discount. I called the other day for an unrelated matter and they offered a 20% discount for being a "long-term customer". The discount is valid for 1 year and I didn't sign a contract.


----------



## m3s

K-133 said:


> I'm contemplating dropping Rogers ISP and simply using my smartphone in hotspot mode for Internet. I'm just not sure how much they throttle down (if at all) after you go over the 5 GB.


How much usage do you get with Wind? Edit: I see 5 GB. That's a lot for a phone!

I think most people who don't dl a lot could live off their smartphone in hotspot mode. I've noticed 3G is surprisingly fast. There is already talk of 4G (HSPA+) being 3 times the speed of my home internet. Netbooks are coming with 3G antennae now

I had a friend who was on the Rogers iPhone 6GB promo plan and she found tethering worked so well she got rid of her net.


----------



## K-133

mode3sour said:


> How much usage do you get with Wind? Edit: I see 5 GB. That's a lot for a phone!
> 
> I think most people who don't dl a lot could live off their smartphone in hotspot mode. I've noticed 3G is surprisingly fast. There is already talk of 4G (HSPA+) being 3 times the speed of my home internet. Netbooks are coming with 3G antennae now
> 
> I had a friend who was on the Rogers iPhone 6GB promo plan and she found tethering worked so well she got rid of her net.


With Wind, its unlimited downloads. The catch is that after 5GB, they will de-prioritize your bandwidth, conceding it to those who have not yet gone over 5GB. This is achieved by lowering your Up/Down speeds depending on overall network congestion. In theory, if congestion is low, you will not be 'punished'.

I think I will spend a month with the Rogers High Speed turned off, to see how she goes.


----------



## carverman

Berubeland said:


> Believe me, I am a very active unhappy customer, I called Bell several times per day for "updates" They had an endless number of tickets and escalations on the problem, for about a month and a half. Finally one of their customer service reps was kind enough to send me my money for service I had not received and cancel my service without charging me $100.
> 
> Since then I have not paid Bell Canada even 1$ I am so proud. Rogers I have 2 cell phones with one without a contract, one with a contract but really i would rather not send them any more money either.


I have had the same problem with Bell TV since they ripped $159.02 twice
off of my CC and refuse to refund the first charge and won't apply it against
the monthly TV charges either. I called serveral times and emailed them as
well, Kept getting different customer support "reps"..almost like tag team
tactics and each one had a different story and different excuse..instead
of reversing the charge against my CC (like normal merchants do), this
multi-billion dollar operation "can't do that"..so then they tell me to call my
bank and arrange for the transfer back..and the bank tells me this is ridiculous!
So I call Bell back and then they tell me that the credit has to go to an
"investigation team" and they should be able to send me a check in the
mail for the $159 overcharge in 6 weeks time.

Because I only have cell phone service, all these calls to Bell TV (1-888 #)
pushed me over my allowed included air time and they had the nerve
to charge ne .20c a minute for calls (Bell or otherwise) because my dispute
with them took a lot of cellphone time.

So now I'm ready to kiss them goodbye. I think they should adopt a new
motto "at Bell we don't care about you the customer..we just want your money!"

carverman


----------

