# Lac Megantic Deja Vu?



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

A CP train with some cars loaded with dangerous goods was left unattended without the handbrakes applied. 



> *CP workers were set to walk off the job at midnight in a strike and company managers were directing crews to park their trains and "tie down" their cargo.*





> some carrying dangerous goods, unattended in the dark on a mountain slope above Revelstoke, B.C., without applying hand brakes — in breach of emergency directives made after the Lac Megantic disaster.





> Train 401 was carrying dangerous goods, the conductor told Transport Canada investigators. Sources familiar with the incident tell CBC News that included more than a dozen tanker cars of flammable fuel oil.
> The conductor and engineer were running out of time before the end of their shift.
> The crew was directed to leave 57 cars on the main track without hand brakes, the warrant asserts.





> Transport Canada investigators assert that the crew left the rail cars without any hand brakes, relying only on secondary air brakes to prevent the train from rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cp-train-left-without-hand-brakes-above-b-c-town-warrant-1.3118752

You have to wonder after what happened to another town not long ago, that the train personnel would have been more concious of safety.

*Fly sitting inside the cab of the Locomotive on Train 401.*.

*First engineer:* Yawn..been a heck of a day...I'm tired, let's leave it here and go into town for a few beers.
*Second backup engineer*: I'm really beat too..but shouldn't we apply the handbrakes on the first 10 cars to make sure it stays where it is parked?
*First engineer*: Naw, the air brakes will keep it from rolling, we'll just keep the diesel running and lock the doors to the cab.
*Second engineer*:Let me check with the dispatcher first then...to find out what are we carrying on this train.
*Dispatcher:* lots of this and that.... and looks like you got 13 cars of fuel oil...and oh yes, the directive is to park the train and 'tie down your
cargo"
*First engineer:* Tie down our cargo? That's not my job!...that should have been done by the loaders...I just drive the train!
*First engineer: * That doesn't sound like a dangerous cargo shipment to me, we should be ok to leave it here, just running with the air brakes applied..
besides I'm dead tired and don't feel like walking the 300 feet each way to apply the handbrakes which will take me about 4 minutes per car..
about half an hour while I could be in town for one last call.
*Second engineer*: Sounds good to me.. I'm too tired to apply those brakes too...


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

What blows my mind: in 2015 there is not some a spring applied brake system that requests human input periodically if someone wants to keep it released with air pressure or other energy source. 

You would think by now, the default would be brakes applied.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

hystat said:


> What blows my mind: in 2015 there is not some a spring applied brake system that requests human input periodically if someone wants to keep it released with air pressure or other energy source.
> 
> You would think by now, the default would be brakes applied.


The ancient railway cars are from the last century. Each car has a hand wheel that turns something to apply the brake pads on the front set of wheels (bogey wheels) and that requires manual intervention to turn the wheel to apply the brakes, and then turn the wheel again to release the brakes before the train is moved.

If this incident occurred around midnight, (like the lac Megantic incident), the crew would be in the dark and would have to have flash lights and two people to apply the brakes for the first 10 cars at least. One to shine the light and the other to climb up and turn the wheel. Now if each car is 50-60 feet long or more..that's about 600 feet they would have to walk to the 10th car of the 47 car train. 

47 cars x 60 feet of length per car is at least 2820 ft (half mile) (or 854 metres..almost 1 kilometer long)..but they would only need to set the first 10 cars behind the locomotive.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Guess CP (and any other railway) hasn't learned anything yet from the Lac Megantic horrific accident and just making too much money... or until the stock(s) tanks.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Guess CP (and any other railway) hasn't learned anything yet from the Lac Megantic horrific accident and just making too much money... or until the stock(s) tanks.


They were very lucky in this incident but should be held accountable for giving out obscure instructions to the train crew. "Parkl the train and ensure loads are secure is not the same as 'apply hand brakes to first 10 cars and confirm back". 

However, there appears to be the beginning of strike action, so some things left out on purpose , (like work to rule with the teachers) can be the difference between just doing a mediocre job and doing a proper job.




> Investigators accuse the company and Superintendent Mark Jackson of *ordering a junior conductor and engineer to leave dozens of rail cars unattended without hand brakes applied, *according to search warrant documents, in violation of edicts from Transport Minister Lisa Raitt.


Ordering to leave dozens of rail cars unattended without hand brakes applied..hmmm that could have led to a disaster worse than lac Megantic, if
the air brakes would have bled off and the train started to move under it's own weight on the 1.5 percent grade downhill into the town of 7,000.
That tragedy could have also taken a few lives if 13 cars loaded with fuel oil exploded inside the town.



> "On a descending grade, what happens is, as brake cylinder pressure drops, gravity eventually overcomes braking force on the train and things start to move," he says.





> The conductor and engineer, both relatively junior employees, questioned the order coming from the radio operator, sources say, but they were overruled.





> They were "informed that the direction came from Mark Jackson, then employed as superintendent, B.C. Interior Division, Canadian Pacific Railway," states the search warrant


.

So the teamsters union is saying that the train crew follow orders given out by the superintendent, even if the orders are not quite correct for the
situation. Ya sure, just leave the train on the main track..it'll be ok. 

As Trump would say.."You're Fired!"


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Lucky no disaster this time but no so lucky next time ... 

*New charges in Lac-Megantic derailment*

*Charges were laid by Transport Canada and Environment Canada for alleged **violations of the Railway Safety Act *and* the Fisheries Act... *




> MONTREAL—The federal government has laid a host of new criminal charges in relation to the deadly 2013 train crash in the Quebec town of Lac-Megantic that killed 47 people.
> 
> The charges were laid by Transport Canada and Environment Canada for alleged violations of the Railway Safety Act and the Fisheries Act.
> 
> An official with Transport Canada told the Star that the charges were filed against *both individuals and companies *with alleged responsibility for the incident. ....


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

hystat said:


> You would think by now, the default would be brakes applied.


Apparently Russian trains were designed to apply the brakes by default (ie needs air pressure to RELEASE the brakes) This is just hearsay from CBC radio though.. I'm not a train engineer myself.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ Lucky no disaster this time but no so lucky next time ...
> 
> *New charges in Lac-Megantic derailment*
> 
> *Charges were laid by Transport Canada and Environment Canada for alleged **violations of the Railway Safety Act *and* the Fisheries Act... *


They can lay all the charges they want. MM&A declared bankruptcy a while ago in 2013. 
Maybe they can toss the engineer who left it unsecured in jail for while..but it's a bit late now. Their assets will not even cover 20% of the claims.
...sounds like Nortel in a way.

However..here is the controversy surrounding that incident...



> A Transportation Safety Board review* found the hand brakes on the train failed as it was parked on a grade, *sending it on path into the town's downtown core. The cars jumped the track, spilling and igniting some six million litres of crude oil.


Did the handbrakes fail? Or the handbrakes set wasn't enough. The locomotive was idling as I recall and caught fire. The firemen came to put the
blaze out on the loco and after that nobody knows what happened..were the the train handbrakes released? Certainly if 10 cars had their handbrakes
set, more than likely it would take tremendous pulling force to overcome them..

.but if only the handbrake on the loco was set and the released..it would make sense that that "failed" to keep the train from rolling down the grade.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ M&M RR may be history now but not CP and others ... provided TC & EC do their job right.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ M&M RR may be history now but not CP and others ... provided TC & EC do their job right.


I think there was some union political sabotage involved with the CP incident. The engineer and the conductor (or whatever they are called), knew that the procedure was to set the hand brakes..but they apparently were told not too?....If this wasdeliberate violation of safety code (especially after lac Megantic, then some heads should roll at CP. since there was some risk to the town.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The engineer and conductor would be a convenient scapegoat, except that the surprise search warrant captured emails and voice conversations between the "inexperienced" train crew and their supervisors.

The crew actually questioned the orders several times, and were finally told the "orders" were coming directly from a senior executive.

The crew was assured it was a "safe" situation and were ordered to proceed.

Failing to follow direct orders could have resulted in their termination, so the employees followed their orders.

Is all the cost cutting of the CEO Hunter Harrison showing the negative effects now ?


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Unless things have changed in the last few years, both the locomotive engineer and the conductor are subject to Board of Transport rules. This is to say that they can be charged. At one time these operating personnel had to re-write Board exams periodically to ensure that their knowledge of the rules was current. 

Good to see Transport Canada flexing their muscles. Now, if only they could do it in other areas....say their abysmal record on dealing with automobile safety and resolution issues.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> The engineer and conductor would be a convenient scapegoat, except that the surprise search warrant captured emails and voice conversations between the "inexperienced" train crew and their supervisors.
> 
> The crew actually questioned the orders several times, and were finally told the "orders" were coming directly from a senior executive.
> 
> ...


Following orders in the military and not questioniong them is what the Nazis did very well, same with our military and the US and so on.
However, CP is a civilian operation and the employees certainly should have a say when their safety comes into play. In this case it was not so much
about their own personal safety, but procedural, and in direct contradiction to the gov'ts "edict" or whatever the Ministry of Transport had laid down as 
procedures after Lac Megantic.

If the nightmare scenario of another runaway train had occurred, obliterating part of Revelstoke, then the witch hunt for the two crewmen would be on, 
and everyone higher up in CP would cover their tracks (no pun intended) .."I never said that'..or... "it was left up to the train crew to ensure their load was secured"...which isn't exactly saying , "put the handbrakes on the first 10 cars"..... sitting on the main line on a downward grade into town.


here is a youtube demo of the train airbrake systems and failsafe modes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFFmQdV9QLU


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fraser said:


> Unless things have changed in the last few years, both the locomotive engineer and the conductor are subject to Board of Transport rules. This is to say that they can be charged. At one time these operating personnel had to re-write Board exams periodically to ensure that their knowledge of the rules was current.
> 
> Good to see Transport Canada flexing their muscles. Now, if only they could do it in other areas....say their abysmal record on dealing with automobile safety and resolution issues.


Yes, poor maintenance and cost cutting measures are certainly starting to show in the major railways these days as they struggle to survive between still making a profit and looking after thousands of kilometers of infrastructure.

I wonder how this got reported to Transport Canada? By the traincrew? But they would have not followed the current procedures, so could lose their certification to operate a locomotive if that is the case...and this case is just as confusing as the Lac Megantic disaster.
The upper management would use them as scapegoats and deny everything except any phone calls to dispatch by the train crew which would
be recorded.

They probably don't observe the new rules that much on level tracks or sidings since it does take a fair bit of time to set the handbrakes on each of the first 10 cars? and then have to release them, and there are train schedules to have the current train moving before the next one comes along..and the diesel's handbrake would be set so the train couldn't move as long as there was enough air in the tanks to keep the brakes on. and the diesel's air compressor
was left running...but OTOH, this does raise an interesting point.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Under Hunter Harrison, CP Rail has laid off thousands of positions, many in the mechanical safety and maintenance areas.

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2013/5/27/CP-Rail-CEO-Harrison-fixing-permissive-culture-.aspx

With the announcement of layoffs, CP Rail share prices went up. Investors liked the news, and Harrison said what he worries about is the share price.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cp-rail-shares-hit-new-high-after-layoffs-announced-1.1200970

Interesting that this latest incident, and apparently there are all kinds of unreported incidents, was in Revelstoke.

Here is a local story about train safety in the area.

http://www.revelstokereview.com/news/216615851.html

Note that CP employees are forbidden to talk to the media about the problems.

_CP Rail staff are prohibited from speaking to the media, risking severe repercussions and even dismissal. We granted anonymity to CP staff who spoke with us because we felt we couldn't get to the core of local concerns without doing so. Their identities are known only to this author and will remain so._

Transport Canada oversight...............pffft

_“They’re not very proactive, let’s put it that way,” said one engineer. Transport Canada and its political masters weigh safety as one concern, but also seek to reduce transportation costs. “As far as the feds are concerned, the more you can keep that transportation cost under control, the more competitive those goods are,” said one engineer about Transport Canada oversight._

_Not all derailments are made public. Minor derailments, like one car skipping a track, fly under the radar. They certainly don't get an official Transportation Safety Board investigation, which is reserved for major incidents. Rail operators don't publicize incidents, large or small._


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The last thing Canada should be doing, especially if we are going to have long, heavy, toxic chemical laden trains running through our populated areas, is cut back on safety, maintenance, and infrastructure.

If ever there was a good time to ramp up the infrastructure to handle the increased loads, it is right now while Canada bumps dangerously close to a recession.

Can the railroads do it alone..........no, Canada should share the costs because we all benefit from the spending.

We have trains travelling on tracks that weren't designed for these heavy loads, especially where they are banked tracks.

The railcars are ancient technology and weren't designed to carry highly corrosive, highly flammable crude oil.

Transportation can be done safely, but not on a ten cent budget.

The same sense of urgency for safety should apply to pipelines as well. If it had, there wouldn't be so many leaks due to poor welding techniques and corroded metal.

It is long past time that Canada got with the times.

Canadians should ask themselves. Is Canadian infrastructure better or worse since Harper took office.

We need jobs.........we need infrastructure for the future........we have money. 

What is the problem ?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Under Hunter Harrison, CP Rail has laid off thousands of positions, many in the mechanical safety and maintenance areas.
> 
> Note that CP employees are forbidden to talk to the media about the problems.
> 
> ...


This is starting to sound a lot like the pre-amble that caused the lac Megantic catastrophe. MM&A decide to cut back on costs by eliminating two engineers to save on salaries and have just one guy looking after these oil trains with catastrophic results. 
The more they cut back on rail safety, repairs and track maintenance, the more likelihood of a major catastrophe coming up if dangerous goods are hauled in the same train that derails.

Looking at the Youtube demonstration of railway braking mechanisms above, it is not clear how the runaway train at lac Megantic got detached from the rest of the oil tankers..
the locomotive was either tampered with/allowed to coast to the spot (with the police car in the picture) or the air line coupling was detached for some reason and the brakes on the locomotiive were disturbed..perhaps due to the engine fire. 

The air hose coupling can be disconnected easily by hand, the same as connecting, so if somebody happened to decide to tamper with the train
sitting on the main line into Revelstoke, it could have happened. 

Once the locomotive got decoupled from the lead tanker car...the air line for the brakes would be disconnected and the cars would not have any brakes applied. 

The grade at lac Megantic was 1.2% grade..same as the one in Revelstoke. 
The difference in the CP case was that the diesel did not get disconnected, so the brake air lines were intact to the rest of the cars in the train.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

If the air line breaks, or the compressor in the diesel engine is shut down (which I believe is what happened in Lac Megantic due to the fire in the engine), the brakes will be automatically applied by pneumatic pressure from air cylinders on each car. But these pneumatic brake systems are not air tight - the pressure will bleed off. (I believe over about 15-30 minutes.) The system is designed to bring the train to a stop if the air line breaks - but not keep it parked unattended for an indefinite period of time. That's what the manual brakes are for.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> If the air line breaks, or the compressor in the diesel engine is shut down (which I believe is what happened in Lac Megantic due to the fire in the engine), the brakes will be automatically applied by pneumatic pressure from air cylinders on each car. But these pneumatic brake systems are not air tight - the pressure will bleed off.
> 
> (I believe over about 15-30 minutes.) The system is designed to bring the train to a stop if the air line breaks - but not keep it parked unattended for an indefinite period of time. That's what the manual brakes are for.


This is apparently what happened. The lone engineer left the old diesel idling, but it developed some kind of fire onboard..obviously a lack of maintenance and it was shut down by the volunteer firemen (or somebody instructed by them to shut it down). Over time, the leaky couplings..somewhere along the train of oil tankers probably lowered the air pressure enough to release the brakes on all of the oil tankers on the train, as it was apparent that the manual brakes where not applied when the lone engineer left his shift that night.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

These oil train derailments seem to be starting to be regular occurrences..yet another environmental disaster..this time fortunately there was no fire...but it's only a matter of time.



> BILLINGS, Mont. - A train that derailed and spilled 35,000 gallons of oil in northeastern Montana was travelling within authorized speed limits, federal officials said Monday as they continued to probe the accident's cause.
> Twenty-two cars on the BNSF train derailed near the small town of Culbertson. Lehner said the tank cars were a model known as the "1232,"which is built under a 2011 industry standard *intended to be more crash-resistant than earlier designs*.





> The spill marked the latest in a series of wrecks across the U.S. and Canada that have highlighted the safety risks of moving crude by rail.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oil-sp...-crude-leaked-in-montana-derailment-1.3158089

It was a paltry 132,000 litres (35,000 gallons) of crude this time and no fires or loss of life....so it's just business as usual.

A US judge has approved payouts of over $435million (US) to Lac Megantic victims...that's a start, but it will never replace the 47 lives lost in that tragic fire.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...s-approve-435m-compensation-package-1.3106289


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Rail tanker spills.......and the Nexen pipeline break was a brand new double hulled pipeline. It has state of the art monitoring equipment and they didn't know it was leaking until somebody walked by it.

The bottom line is there is no way to safely ship this stuff around, and whatever method is used should be located far away from any populated areas.


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