# Suggestions on buying winter tires frugally?



## freshsavings

So I've been asking around with friends and colleagues on how to purchase winter tires frugally.

Suggestions I've heard include:
- Looking for used ones on Craigslist. 
- Driving to the US and buying some (I live in Vancouver). (I know people often buy replacement all seasons down there and leave their old set behind, but I guess that's not possible when you'd like to keep your all seasons.)
- Going to Costco and buying there (mostly because they have an incredible return policy).

What do you suggest?

I'd also need at a bare minimum a new set of basic steel rims too.

Last year, I just decided to keep my all seasons on and during the few weeks of snow, kept the car in the garage and took transit.


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## DanFo

I'd definately check kijiji. If you have a popular car model you shouldn't have too hard of a problem finding a slightly used set.


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## carverman

By frugally..you must mean cheap! cheap! cheap?

Forget about Costco! They have become expensive in the tire dept, so there
is nothing frugal about buying there.
The most frugal way to buy them is second hand, correct size and aspect ratio, mounted on rims that are suitable for your vehicle. 

Autowreckers is a possibility. I got my truck tire snow tires at Canadian Tire on sale and the two rims to mount them on at an auto wreckers for $50 a piece + taxes.
Mounting and balancing another $25 each, so thats another $50 + taxes.

I don't remember exactly what my tires cost at CTC but I believe when I bought them about 5 years ago, they were well under a $100 on sale as
they were end of line.
So lets do the math: $200 for two tires
$57 for the rims
$57 for mounting and balancing
$314 for two truck snow tires that have lasted me 5 years and probably
I can get another 5 years out of them...about $31 a year.


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## andrewf

Going to the US is not a bad idea. If your summer set will fit in your car (mine fit easily in my compact car with the rear seats folded down), then just go down there and declare your tires when you cross the border. You'll pay the same taxes you would pay here, and maybe a small duty depending on where the tires are from. It will still be cheaper.


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> Going to the US is not a bad idea. If your summer set will fit in your car (mine fit easily in my compact car with the rear seats folded down), then just go down there and declare your tires when you cross the border. You'll pay the same taxes you would pay here, and maybe a small duty depending on where the tires are from. It will still be cheaper.


Yes, that is another way, if you have the time and gas to travel to the
US. Especially with the dollar still at par. It's wasn't such a good deal
for me 5 years ago, when the Cdn dollar was at a 25% discount.

*Absolutely declare the tire purchase*, because IF you don't,
and they decide to pull you over and check out your vehicle/ tires...
they can by law seize your vehicle!

As far as the all seasons, which you still need on your car to make the
trip to the US, stop at the Canadian border checkpoint before you cross
over the border and ask what the rules are for buying tires down in the US
and bring back the original tires as well. If you are there for 48 hrs or
more, there is an exemption you can apply to any purchases or repairs
to your vehicle.
Not sure if NEW snow tires are classified as repairs or a purchase. 

Obviously the all seasons will have wear on them, 
upon inspection by the Border guards..and if you carry them back
unmounted, and have a bill of sale for the new snows mounted on the
vehicle , I would think the Border security agency will see those all seasons
as tires necessary to make the trip into the US to buy new tires.
They would only charge you the taxes payable on the new snows/rims.


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## Jungle

I find it hard to beat Walmart's prices, when buying new winter tires. 

But then some will say their "quality" or "design" of tires are poor and better to spend more money on the expensive, name brand tires. 

I've noticed a lot of marketing, advertising, branding, sales pushing and brainwashing ? go into the sales of winter tires.. so take everything with a grain of salt. They all really want your money. 

I used Walmarts winter tires and they were an amazing improvement over all seasons. I saved a few hundred too. 

What I find interesting is this: No matter how good you drive, what tires you have, AWD, 4WD, whatever, you may not be able to help when the guy with bald tires t-bones you, smashes into the back, side or front. 

YOu can only drive so defensively and nobody is a perfect driver _all the time_.

I try not to drive during a snow storm because there are too many bad drivers in the city.


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## m3s

I would stay far far away from no-name brand Chinese tires unless you research them first. Nothing ever comes good of those. Just look at the load and speed ratings if you don't believe me. They can also be poor compound that doesn't grip or wears fast after a year etc. I'm all for being frugal but tires are the most important thing on a vehicle. Walmart tire could be good but I've always heard bad experiences

A lot of brands are just re-brands of the big brand names. Re-brands are perfectly fine. Hankooks are well known as the best bang for the buck tires. They come from South Korea and make the very popular Hankook iPike winters. I use Hankook Ventus on the track as they are great for the price and I can afford to destroy them on the track compared the bigger brands that cost double. I wouldn't trust no-name tires on a track or at 100kmh unless they had a proven track record. I would say Hankooks and some re-brands are the best bang for the buck, or used brand name

If you buy used make sure to check the sidewall date and ratings and for even wear. I find a lot of people ask too much for used tires because they don't realize you can get them online for from the US for the same price. They will usually negotiate very easily though. I got used winters for half the price he was asking at first and buying used saves the tax/mounting/balancing fees etc


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## atrp2biz

I put iPikes on my car last year and they're back on this year--love them. Last year was the first year I used winter tires and they really do make a difference. I originally wanted to go with the General Tire Arctic Altimax, but the place I went to were sold out. The Altimax tires were well priced (I think they have gone up considerably), but I'm happy the way things have turned out.


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## carverman

mode3sour said:


> If you buy used make sure to check the sidewall date and ratings and for even wear. I find a lot of people ask too much for used tires because *they don't realize you can get them online for from the US for the same price. * They will usually negotiate very easily though. I got used winters for half the price he was asking at first and buying used saves the tax/mounting/balancing fees etc


The big problem with buying online is the shipping costs to Canada are
very expensive these days. 
I ran into that with a wheel bearing hub for my truck that failed about
a year ago. 

The hub was cheap to buy, ($85) but the online store "CarStuff" refused to ship directly to Canada. I had to pay shipping from them to a Freight consolidator (Bongo Intl) ($23 shipping+ $5 for opening a single item acct with them), then they charged me by weight to ship it to Canada air freight ($85) where a delivery service here (DHL) charged me for customs clearance, local delivery and HST, (another $45) In the end, I barely saved $100 over buying the bearing hub here. Weight = 10lbs. 
$85 US for the hub 
$28 US shipping
$85 air freight to Ottawa
$45, custom clearance and expedited delivery by DHL to my door + taxes
===
$243 total charges buying the part from online store in US

Cost of part here in Ottawa at the dealer $300 + taxes ($339).


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## Spudd

If you live in Vancouver, why do you need winter tires? I thought it rarely dips below freezing there. Given the small amount of cold/snow days, I wouldn't think it worth it to buy winter tires.


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## m3s

Carver shipping from the US is all in the details. If you ship with a package that includes brokerage fees it is much more reasonable. I've never bought tires from the US but I've bought plenty of large parts. Some companies think they know the cheapest way, but aren't aware of the fees to cross the border. For smaller items you should always ship USPS as it is far cheaper. For large items ship UPS expedited (includes brokerage) otherwise you'll get an atrocious bill at the door. The good sites who deal with Cdns often know this by now, but many do not. I was buying stuff online during the days of dialup, back when eBay sniping programs were all the rage


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## nathan79

Spudd said:


> If you live in Vancouver, why do you need winter tires? I thought it rarely dips below freezing there. Given the small amount of cold/snow days, I wouldn't think it worth it to buy winter tires.


"Rarely" is subjective... according to Environment Canada Vancouver drops below freezing 46 days per year and averages 48 cm of snow.

Some winters there is over 100 cm of snow, such as 2008/09.

And that is at the airport (at sea level, right by the water). The eastern suburbs and higher elevations will often have twice as much snow as the airport.


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## carverman

mode3sour said:


> Carver shipping from the US is all in the details. If you ship with a package that includes brokerage fees it is much more reasonable.


Not all parts places include brokerage fees, most won't even deal if you
if you are not in the 48 contigious states..they just couldn't be bothered
with brokers or filling out custom forms. I've only ordered a bearing hub
that way and learned my lesson. I won't deal with any parts place that
has a roundabout way of shipping. Generally, I deal only with online
parts stores that are willing to ship USPS , not UPS because UPS can also
charge a significant brokerage fee, so depending on the value of the goods,
it may not be worth it. 
I dont think that the post office (US/CP) can handle large packages with
tires in them and they have a weight/girth limitation as well...so the only
other way is usually UPS.

For tires, unless I'm willing to spend a day and gas ($50-$60)travelling down to Odgensburg/Massena or Watertown, NY, I'd rather just look around for
the best deal here. In Ottawa with my half ton truck, slushy/slippery roads,
and -20c winter temps sometimes, I do need snow tires for better traction.

I shopped around to get the best deal and have the store install and
balance the tires bought from them on rims I found elsewhere at a wrecker. 



> I've never bought tires from the US but I've bought plenty of large parts.


I think you would be surprised on how much it costs to ship 1-2 tires
from the US these days. Even at par, it's a break even proposition,
if you consider shipping costs..unless of course, you make a special
trip there to buy the tires and have them installed on your vehicle. 

Tire warranties are another hassle with buying tires in the US, 
you would have to return the defective tire to the same dealer
you bought it from to get any kind of warranty adjustment.
The tire dealers up here won't give you any adjustment on the
tire if it becomes unserviceable. If they see from the bill that 
you bought it in the US ..they will tell you to take it back to
the US..so that would be yet another hassle and trip to get
the tire replaced. Assuming your time is worth nothing.,
there is the gas, bridge crossing fees ($3x two) and perhaps
other expenses involved. 

At CTC, if you buy road hazard protection on the tires, you can get a 
free replacement if you drive over something that cuts the sidewall,
which cannot be patched or plugged. 

I generally don't pay for extra warranties of any kind, preferring just
to take my chances. The Motomaster Roughriders I got on my truck
have huge off road agressive treads,so I'm not too worried about
warranty with those, and they are still good for a few more winters. 



> For smaller items you should always ship USPS as it is far cheaper.


I do that as much as possible for all of my cross border online orders.
Ebay or whatever. This year, Ive been buying my suspension/brake parts
from an online store in Montreal. Free shipping and they add the taxes and
deliver the parts right to my door. 

I may not save as much as some of the on-line stores in the US, 
but I get the parts within 2 days by courier and no hassle exchange.
That is worth a lot more to me than saving a few bucks on the part.

I had a defective sensor they sent. Informed them, returned the
sensor to them (they sent the courier to pickup), and in 2 days I had
another replacement sensor. 

Imagine the hassles trying to return defective parts to an online store 
in the US..you'd be waiting probably a month before you got the replacement. I don't want to wait that long if my vehicle is out of commission!



> For large items ship UPS expedited (includes brokerage) otherwise you'll get an atrocious bill at the door.


Thanks, I will remember that from now. I have a rusted out bumper that I need to have replaced soon (another Dodge "gotcha"),and I found them cheap
on Ebay, but the customs charges by UPS stopped me from proceeding with
it.


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## hystat

the recommendations here for looking to used on kijiji etc are good, but learn how to read date codes if getting used. You don't want someone's 8 year old snows that they remembered were up in the rafters.... On some tires, the rubber seems to cure and harden with age in my experience. 

I just picked up a set of 2 season old Kumho iZen KW19's for my car, on factory rims with the pressure sensors, for less than Walmart was quoting for chinese tires on multifit steelies. I had to drive an hour to get them.


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## carverman

hystat said:


> but learn how to read date codes if getting used. You don't want someone's 8 year old snows that they remembered were up in the rafters.... On some tires, the rubber seems to cure and harden with age in my experience.


Most people have no clue on how to read date codes on tires.

It is true that rubber dries out and hardens with age. If you're driving on
all seasons with cracks inbetween the high part of the treads, that's another
safety issue as well. If the tires are subjected to high heat or UV rays, that
also hardens the rubber compounds and that will happen right on your vehicle
as well for the lifetime of service the tire provides. 

The "grippiness" of any tire compound used in the tread is in the first few millimeters of the tread. After that the softer rubber wears down and 
the harder rubber that forms the tread is still good, but doesn't have the
traction adherance to the road that new tires have.

Some specialty tires have softer rubber right down to the belts practically. It's a tradeoff..the wearability of the tire vs tread grip. 

If people expect their allseasons to last 80,000Km, the manufacturer has to have different rubber compounds to achieve the tread wearability, because once the tread is down to 3/32"..the tire is finished..and even that is taking a risk on wet or slush roads!

Snows have more agressive side lugs molded into the tires for grip and those
lugs provide about 50% of the traction you need to bite into the snow and
get going. Ice tires have a different tread compound and tread for grip on
icy roads. 

Driving around on 2-3 year old allseasons with worn down treads and hardened and sometimes frozen rubber at -10 to -20C is just an accident
waiting to happen. It's bad out there these days with drivers not paying attention to stop signs running redlights and speeding well above road conditions, so at least you need to have traction to stop or get out of
the way if you can. 

And if your luck holds out, you won't get t-boned by some idiot that
is driving too fast for winter conditions on worn out all seasons.


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