# Repair or Replace?



## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

In the "old" days, this used to be a no-brainier question for me. I'd often try to repair things when they broke.

Today, however, with planned obsolescence, lack of parts, expensive repair techs, computerized parts that even techs don't repair, it's often cheaper in terms of time and money to replace.

As a landlord, a repair is a tax write off, as opposed to a depreciating asset...but that doesn't matter much to me in the long run. Tenants get grouchy if their stuff is broken too long, and are happier with new stuff.

Of course, being a landlord, I encounter broken stuff more often than others...

Wondering how others view it...


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I always try to Repair first.

If I can't do it - A tech probably can't either. Then, I get a new one.

You'd be surprised how much you can learn. I can now build and dismantle an entire gas water heater. Saved me from buying a new one!

If I ever need parts I try to buy from a wholesaler instead of retailer.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

I recall taking a large microwave oven, (with convection/microwave or a mix capabilities IIRC), into a repair shop........guy said that for what it would cost us to have him take the back off it (never mind trying to ascertain the problem) wouldn't be worth our while.

OTOH, my wife & I purchased and replaced a lid switch on our washing machine last year, (which entailed dismantling the unit), and it (still) works perfectly.....(we took the laptop down to the basement and watched a 'how to' vid while we worked).


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I used to "replace" but now I try to "repair" first. A few months back, our 12-year-old oven's thermostat died. I looked online and found instructions, but couldn't find a new part. But then I found a repair service nearby; they fixed for $75. Much cheaper than buying a new oven, and I assume this oven will keep going for at least another 12 years. 

If you like doing things yourself, check out ifixit.com -- it's a sort of crowd-sourced repair instruction site for lots of products.

When I buy shoes, I now try to buy shoes that can be resoled. My dress shoes are from 1984 and I've resoled them many times over the years; the uppers look good as new. That's probably saved me at least $1,000 over the years.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm a mechanic. Repairing things is in my DNA. Especially when it needs troubleshooting and someone is going to throw away an expensive thing when the solution is just turning a screw or changing a 50 cent o-ring. 
I glued the sole on an old pair of shoes yesterday. lol. 
However, I'm the first to tell someone when a repair isn't going to be the best solution. 
Every situation is unique. 
I spent 1/3 of my time on the shop floor quoting repairs. Each situation has to be evaluated.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

brad said:


> When I buy shoes, I now try to buy shoes that can be resoled. My dress shoes are from 1984 and I've resoled them many times over the years; the uppers look good as new. That's probably saved me at least $1,000 over the years.


Awesome. What brand are your dress shoes? How can you tell if a pair of shoes are resoleable or not?


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Always try to repair if it is within my scope of competence or if I can learn it. KaeJS is right about how much can be learned and done by oneself. I try to impart this to the kids as we definitely live in a disposable society. Today I tried to fire up the pool heater for the first time (actually the Union Gas guy did as he was here installing a new gas meter as ours was apparently dangerously old!) but no power so he couldn't get it going and since he was just doing me a favour, I thanked him and he went on his way. After he left I took it apart and my suspicion that mice had made a winter home in it was confirmed. Control area was full of nesting material and they had chewed though 4 wires in two compartments. So wire strippers and wire nuts and twenty minutes and a good cleaning and the thing fire up fine. I'm still keeping an eye on it but no smoke so far! This is the third time that mice have defeated it. A couple of years ago it needed a new mother board. I find it hard to believe that a company can't design a mouse resistant pool heater as the majority of these things are installed outdoors. I think next winter the mother board and front panels come off and go into the garage to make it a less attractive home!


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Mothballs in an open container should do the trick ... campers, boats, cars stored for the winter can suffer the same fate ... google is your friend eaceful:


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

It's a function of "how much is my time worth"? If I can do the job myself and it doesn't take much time, I will do the repair.

If I'm unsure about the repair or it will consume a bunch of my time, I hire others. 

If you're a landlord, in this case, even better - hire somebody and claim the tax expense. Just my $0.05.


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

REPAIR

After 5 years of separation, my husband and I reunited. To celebrate we bought a cheap but well built two story with single car attached garage $145K older house with a million dollar south-east frontal view of the St Lawrence and a million dollar north back view of a local farmer’s hay field. 

Problem: The water line installed in 1956 to the house sprung a leak at the street. 

We had the city shut the water off. For water, our neighbor let us use their water supply by connecting a garden hose from their outside water line valve to our outside water line valve. 

A repair near the city’s main line had been done to the line 20 years ago by a local plumber. To our amazement, the local plumbers did not want the job of repairing just the leak. They wanted to bring in a back hoe, dig up our front yard, remove our maple tree as well as remove parts of our deck to install a brand new copper line from the city's main line to our house at a minimum cost of $3500. We did not want to lose our maple tree and part of our deck, so we dug up the area with a round nosed shovel and located two frost damage leaks at the copper joints located between the mainline and our galvanized line. 

We went online to learn how to repair it ourselves and the local public works superintendent brought us over a roll of LLFA Compression Tape and said good luck.

We used that LLFA Compression Tape plus hose clamps (as added security) and WOW ...we actually stopped those leaks.

BTW, in our past lives as horticulture crop farmers, we successfully repaired frost damaged leaks on aluminum irrigation pipe using hose clamps to hold pieces of rubber tubing acting as a gasket between the pipe and an additional piece of aluminum pipe. These repairs are still withstanding pressures of 40 psi 25 years later.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

peterk said:


> Awesome. What brand are your dress shoes? How can you tell if a pair of shoes are resoleable or not?


My dress shoes are Rockports; I bought them at the factory outlet in Massachusetts for about $20. They're the only dress shoes I've owned in the past 30 years, and I expect they'll last me the rest of my life.

I'm not sure how to tell if shoes are resoleable, but in general if they have leather uppers there's a good chance you can resole them. I also have a pair of Teva sandals that I bought specifically because they were advertised as resoleable (they don't make them anymore, unfortunately, but I've resoled them a few times). My regular sandals were made by a cobbler in BC and I've resoled them a few times as well. They look like Birkenstocks but aren't. Things like running shoes, non-leather hiking boots, etc. aren't generally resoleable. A lot of LL Bean's shoes are resoleable, including their "Maine Hunting Shoe" boots; you can get them resoled locally or send them back to LL Bean for resoleing.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Okay, to throw a twist into things, what if you replace with used items?


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> Okay, to throw a twist into things, what if you replace with used items?


often the used item has the same weak point that caused the failed thing to go south. 
I like used tires and things like that I can visually inspect.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

No black or white answer. Sometimes replace if not possible or too expensive to repair. Sometimes repair, sometimes replace with used. I buy and sell plenty on Kijiji.

Lots of factors come into play:

financial, ability to do repair(skill and tools), durability and longevity of repair, cosmetic appeal, quality of replacement item. My time and amount of work isn't normally a big consideration as I am far from lazy and have lots of time being retired.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

No black and white answer. I always look to DIY repair first. I take the view of, "It's broken right now, so I can't really make it more broken,"

If you're going to get a tech to do the repair for you though, I've found you're better off buying new. If it's mechanical, fix it, if it's electronic I usually pitch it.

When something does break, I take it apart and see what's what. Even if I can't fix it, I can learn about it. That could come in handy again.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

In my past we repatriated to Canada, and moved to Mississauaga with two young kids in tow and bought a house, with Mom full time at home.

Cash flow was tight, and furnishings were sparse at first. 

Oakville at the time had Junk Weeks - official garbage picking season, on a neighbourhood by neighbourhood basis, in the spring.

I would troll with my truck likely 15 nights per year for a few years to furnish the house with cast off young kids things, and other bits we needed.

Often I would find something broken that we could use, but know I would find another of the same thing later, broken in a different way.
So bring both home, make one good one, and return the totally useless broken left over bits back to the curb on the next round.

It was maniac, as you only do when you are young and have no free money to apply to the situation - so you apply your energy and ingenuity. 

End of first year and second year held a garage sale to sell off the stuff fixed and did not need more of. Made about $750, so covered my gas costs, and the stuff we kept was then free, and I had a pretty good idea of what was in most thing it if it went wrong again.


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

My car needs new rotors.. I was thinking of doing it my self till I talked to my buddy who's a mechanic. Kind of talked me out of it. I have no interest in cars and seems like it can turn into a headache so ill take it to a mechanic.

On the other hand stuff around the house I'd rather do my self like renos, small projects.. built a table for the back yard recently. I enjoy this type of work so even if the time/cost value was better to have some one else do it I'd do it for the experience and satisfaction.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

30seconds said:


> My car needs new rotors.. I was thinking of doing it my self till I talked to my buddy who's a mechanic. Kind of talked me out of it.


Normally disc brakes/pads are one of the easiest jobs to do, especially if you're replacing the rotors. Depending on the car you have you might even find a complete walkthrough with video/pictures of the actual work to be done. Be careful if you have rear discs as they usually require a special tool to push the caliper piston back (due to the e-brake) but not all do.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Toughest part of doing your own brake rotors is they are often seized on and difficult to remove.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

If I have the time, energy and interest, I try and repair. On my own, I pulled apart my brothers front load washing machine and replaced the bearings in it. It was a lot of work, taking apart the drum and other stuff I had never in my life seen before, but with the help of You Tube and DIY sites, it wasn't that difficult, and was actually a bit fun. And gives me, a 40-something mom a bit of bragging rights when young virile males ask for someone to repair their washing machine 

If I'm not interested or if the part is expensive to buy, I replace. Or return in some cases - I don't like planned obsolescence when the time frame is ridiculous. If I buy a cordless phone and the rechargeable batteries don't last more than a year, that phone goes back to Costco. Bloody hell if I'm paying to buy 5 or 6 new batteries at at least $10 a pop (for decent batteries) that soon after purchase.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

brad said:


> My dress shoes are Rockports; I bought them at the factory outlet in Massachusetts for about $20. They're the only dress shoes I've owned in the past 30 years, and I expect they'll last me the rest of my life.
> 
> I'm not sure how to tell if shoes are resoleable, but in general if they have leather uppers there's a good chance you can resole them. I also have a pair of Teva sandals that I bought specifically because they were advertised as resoleable (they don't make them anymore, unfortunately, but I've resoled them a few times). My regular sandals were made by a cobbler in BC and I've resoled them a few times as well. They look like Birkenstocks but aren't. Things like running shoes, non-leather hiking boots, etc. aren't generally resoleable. A lot of LL Bean's shoes are resoleable, including their "Maine Hunting Shoe" boots; you can get them resoled locally or send them back to LL Bean for resoleing.


Thanks for this post, I love quality shoes - to the point I will buy second hand thrift if they are high quality. I can't find a local cobbler to make me shoes in the small town I live in, and it's a pain to get measured in a big city when I'm not sure when the next time I'll be back to try them on for fit (don't want delivery without trying them on if any adjustments are needed).

I've found Rockport has taken a nose dive in quality over the past 10 years. I like John Fluvog (sp?) shoes but would want him to make them and I don't get to Vancouver often enough. I'm not far from Ottawa, about a 2 hr drive, would love to find a shoe maker there but haven't really tried very hard.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Addy said:


> I've found Rockport has taken a nose dive in quality over the past 10 years. I like John Fluvog (sp?) shoes but would want him to make them and I don't get to Vancouver often enough. I'm not far from Ottawa, about a 2 hr drive, would love to find a shoe maker there but haven't really tried very hard.


I'm not surprised about Rockport; I imagine all their stuff is made overseas now, although that doesn't necessarily translate to lower quality. Some of the best-made clothing in the world is made in China; they have a highly skilled textile workforce and if you're looking for quality clothing it's a big mistake to avoid Chinese-made clothes. Quality really depends on the manufacturer's priorities: if they want to make stuff that lasts or just stuff that sells.

I have my sandals custom-made because one of my legs is shorter than the other so I need a lift built into the sandal; it's easier to do that from the start than to add it on later. I use Marc's in BC: http://www.orthopedicsandals.com I live in Québec and did everything through the mail with no problem.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Even Bostonians have injection-molded plastic soles now. I haven't seen an old-school sewn-on-sole Rockport for 20 years. I have found repairs to plastic (PVC, urethane) soles to be quite short lived and of little use.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

gardner said:


> Even Bostonians have injection-molded plastic soles now. I haven't seen an old-school sewn-on-sole Rockport for 20 years. I have found repairs to plastic (PVC, urethane) soles to be quite short lived and of little use.


Well, that makes sense given that my Rockports are about 30 years old now. SOMEBODY must be making good-quality old-school shoes. I bet if you check out www.putthison.com there might be some links -- they have a knack for finding sources for old-school quality men's clothes and shoes, and they also link to lots of eBay specials on quality used clothing. Most of it's expensive as hell, but if it lasts 30 years you could amortize the cost. ;-)


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## 6811 (Jan 1, 2013)

brad said:


> Well, that makes sense given that my Rockports are about 30 years old now. SOMEBODY must be making good-quality old-school shoes. I bet if you check out www.putthison.com there might be some links -- they have a knack for finding sources for old-school quality men's clothes and shoes, and they also link to lots of eBay specials on quality used clothing. Most of it's expensive as hell, but if it lasts 30 years you could amortize the cost. ;-)


LL Bean makes a shoe to match my Avator that can be resoled. http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/19405?feat=592-GN1&page=men-s-classic-penny-loafers . I have a pair of same style Sebago's penny loafers that I bought over ten years ago but just don't dress up enough to put any wear on them. Also have a pair of Bostonians that were resoled over ten years ago, and a newer pair of Dockers (oxford style lace-ups) that I've had re-heeled (don't think they can be re-soled but they sure are comfortable).


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Its always a judgment call. If the thing is quality to begin with, then I usually repair. I had a tenant complain about their stove. When I looked at it it was the cheapest most poorly engineered stove one could imagine. So I replaced it with a brand having a good reliability record. It cost me more money upfront, but I assume it will reduce repair frequency which means saved time and effort. I repair quality stuff, and get rid of the junk that I'll likely be frequently repairing. It frees up my time for more fruitful activities.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

It's usually a ... can I fix it myself? do I feel like fixing it myself? will it be fun to do? ... e.g. resistor pack in jeep heater control, youtube shows how, pick up pack, did it myself; If I decide I don't want to fix it myself is it worth while having someone else do it? ... e.g. replace jeep 4 rotors and pads ... hmmm, used to do that sort of thing, but not anymore ... I'll just have that done; and finally, it's not worth fixing, I'll replace it ... e.g., I've repaired that 25 year old dryer maybe 3 times ... I'll just replace it ... or ... I just don't need the functionality anymore, forget about it ... e.g. CD player.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

I much rather repair stuff than buy new. I have a Bosch DW (that is crap) and recently I found a similar one on Kijiji for free. I got it and replaced the parts on mine that were worn out. Let's see- on the Bosch, I resoldered the mother board after the heater trace burned off because it was too light to handle the current making it just run and run trying to warm the water up, replaced the inlet solenoid because it stuck open and flooded the floor, replace the pump out pump (repair guy said it was because we rinsed our dishes off prior to dishwashing and the pump needed the crap from the dishes to lube it (load of crap since we don't rinse off before), the assemble that directs water to the top sprayer cracked (replaced that with the Kijiji parts), the control board had failed plastic springs so the buttons on the front wouldn't work, and finally the soap dispenser failed and I used the one I got from Kijiji. So - I'll never buy another Bosch product. People seem to like "Euro" stuff but their electrical designs are based on "just strong enough for a while" and therefore burn out quicker from what I have seen. 

Yes - brakes and rotors are a DIY job as well as all fluid changes - transmission, rear diff, brake fluid and rad, and of course oil with decent filters (aka not Fram). 
Oven element burned out on our 1983 vintage stove - easily replaced and part found at HD. Downside is we never get new appliances! LOL.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I am MUCH less likely to repair things these days, for these reasons

1) Everything is so cheap. If a TV cost $300 in 1970, that was a month's pay. You can buy one today that is better, for $89, and that is not even a day's pay. So why bother to fix the old one, buy a new one. This goes for all kinds of appliances and tools. I am amazed at the tools and power tools you can buy today. I wanted a Milwaukee Sawzall for years but they were too expensive, now I have 2 of the cheap versions. They work fine and both together cost a fraction of what 1 Sawzall cost 30 years ago, adjusted for inflation.

2)Everything is so cheap. You used to be able to fix things, now you have nothing to work with. You try to take something apart and either it falls apart in your hands or it is glued, swaged or welded together with no screws, you can't get parts, etc.

3) I value my time different, I have more money than I did 40 years ago but less time to spend. I would rather spend $49 on a new whatever, than spend half a day fixing the old one.

Having said that, I do still repair things if they are worth the time and trouble. A few days ago I picked up a floor model electric fan for nothing. It only needed to be cleaned and oiled and it is as good as new. Savings, $69 for an hour's work. That is ok by me. But if it had anything serious wrong I would not have bothered with it.


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

It is fun to be 'cheap' because I want to - not because I have to.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Brian K said:


> It is fun to be 'cheap' because I want to - not because I have to.


+1


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

https://www.facebook.com/repaircafeptbo or http://www.greenup.on.ca/repair-cafe/

Pretty cool idea imho!


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

Repair Café - a great idea. 

What really annoys me in Calgary (well one of the things anyway), once something is 'in the garbage' it's a bylaw infraction to take it out (of someone else's bins). I've been to the landfills occasionally - it is a shame what is thrown out and many of those things could be enjoyed again. I guess stuff is too cheap these days. Most manufacturing is done in China - and our garbage is shipped back to them to be recycled.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Brian K said:


> Repair Café - a great idea.
> 
> What really annoys me in Calgary (well one of the things anyway), once something is 'in the garbage' it's a bylaw infraction to take it out (of someone else's bins). I've been to the landfills occasionally - it is a shame what is thrown out and many of those things could be enjoyed again. I guess stuff is too cheap these days.* Most manufacturing is done in China - and our garbage is shipped back to them to be recycled.*


The Chinese are smart.they get us TWICE and laugh all the way to their banks.
We ship them old crushed cars, bailed tin cans, aluminum cans, used newsprint...we get back new car metal that rusts out faster because of all those impurities, can openers that wont, 
DVD players with defects right out of the box, Mastercraft wrenches that don't fit anything, batteries that only last half as long as expected, and shelving (sold by H-D) from recycled newsprint called MDF..

It's so much an accepted thing that practically everything nowadays consumer is made in China...that we are pleasantly surprised if we see Made in Canada ..or made in USA.

Ok about that repair cafe...I would be willin' to offer my suggestions on this and that and the wherefore and why..Who is going to open up this topic so people can ask questions?


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Brian K said:


> Repair Café - a great idea.
> 
> What really annoys me in Calgary (well one of the things anyway), once something is 'in the garbage' it's a bylaw infraction to take it out (of someone else's bins). I've been to the landfills occasionally - it is a shame what is thrown out and many of those things could be enjoyed again. I guess stuff is too cheap these days. Most manufacturing is done in China - and our garbage is shipped back to them to be recycled.


Weird admission from my childhood - where I grew up there was a garbage incinerator down at the end of the road. As children my brothers and I, along with our friends, would wander to the landfill and come back with some of the coolest stuff ever! The guys that worked there never minded, never chased us away and we knew well enough where not to go (back to the "big stinky open pit" where they dumped sewage collected from people's septic tanks for example!!! Or anywhere where the heavy equipment was working moving garbage around to be incinerated.

I have fond memories of the hours spent scavenging for our finds there.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Like any product, Chinese stuff can be good or bad and you get what you pay for still generally applies.

Consumer electronics (complex ones) are normally not worth the time to repair unless there is an obvious failure, as in a burned/destroyed component visible. Even simple electronics don't pay sometimes, like coffee makers where the heating element dies. The new heating element part can cost 80-200% of the full purchase price not including the time to repair it.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Like any product, Chinese stuff can be good or bad and you get what you pay for still generally applies.
> 
> Consumer electronics (complex ones) are normally not worth the time to repair unless there is an obvious failure, as in a burned/destroyed component visible. Even simple electronics don't pay sometimes, like coffee makers where the heating element dies. The new heating element part can cost 80-200% of the full purchase price not including the time to repair it.


I wasn't saying that ALL Chinese made products are bad..if they were ..boy would we be in trouble!

I was referring to some of the cheaper brands of Chinese made products that CTC (and other big box stores) seems to selling lot of these days.

For instance..I bought a caulking gun from CTC..made where?..In China of course! 

Took it home, tried to use it on a cartridge of caulking compound..it would not ratchet properly to squeeze the product out of the tube..click! slip! Click! slip!...took it back thinking it was just my luck to get a defective one..got another in exchange..not much choice at the store (they only had MIC caulking guns) and I didn't want to go to a paint store to find
another brand made in NA, since I had already bought it at CTC..
But I found out immediately that the replacement does the same thing..looks good in chrome..hanging on my garage wall though.

Another example: CTC had a set of nicely chromed Mastercraft wrenches (open and box end) on sale for 40% off.
Bought both sets, the SAE and Metric set. They looked very nice.

Opened up the first Metric set and tried to loosen a 10mm nut...*the new Mastercraft 10mm wrench would NOT fit the 10mm nut*! WTH?

Tried another 13 mm from the new Mastercraft set..same thing! 

Found an old set in my mechanics tool box..10mm and 13mm..used them to loosen the nuts. 

Took both sets back and exchanged them for a STANLEY name brand (MIC ) open/box end set..these all worked!

Just saying..that you have to shop around and *ensure that what you are buying has a name brand reputation if it is made in China.*


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I had the same issue a while back with a caulking gun, the metal was sooo thin and the construction was very poor that it didn't work ... just like yours click, click, click without moving. Brought it back to CT and paid something like $3 more at Home Depot for a sturdy one, also made in China ... works like a charm.

Name brand or not, you can still have QC issues, although it's usually less likely with high(er) quality stuff. Mastercraft has two lines I believe, regular and maximum, which I'm sure are made to different standards in both construction and QC. Again, it's get what you pay for, sometimes you win and save some cash, other times it's just junk. Lately I've been buying cheap (1/4 to 1/3 the cost of CT equiv.), low end tools from Princess Auto (impact sockets, brake bleeders, special brake/suspension tools, etc) and 99% of the time they work just fine with the 1% getting exchanged/returned. 

I ran into a socket size issue when changing over some winter to summer tires for a friend ... turns out, after checking with my high quality craftstman socket and then measuring with a digital caliper, the nut on the brand new car was the wrong size! Good thing I changed the tires out as I found another bad one and both of these wouldn't even fit inside the supplied tire wrench, so in case of a flat, a roadside swap would have been impossible. BTW, the car was "made in the USA".


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

cainvest said:


> I had the same issue a while back with a caulking gun, the metal was sooo thin and the construction was very poor that it didn't work ... just like yours click, click, click without moving. Brought it back to CT and paid something like $3 more at Home Depot for a sturdy one, also made in China ... works like a charm.


Yes, I guess I will try H-D and get one that actually works. Problem is that unless I take a half used tube of caulk, I won't know if the caulking gun works or not..until I get it home..and I'm disabled, so CTC is the only H/W store near me..otherwise I have to arrange for a ride to Kanata or Ottawa Baseline road, with my wheelchair on OCTRANSPO..and THAT IS A LOT OF HASSLE for a caulking gun..especially if I have to bring it back...again. 



> Name brand or not, you can still have QC issues, although it's usually less likely with high(er) quality stuff. Mastercraft has two lines I believe, regular and maximum, which I'm sure are made to different standards in both construction and QC. Again, it's get what you pay for, sometimes you win and save some cash, other times it's just junk. Lately I've been buying cheap (1/4 to 1/3 the cost of CT equiv.), low end tools from Princess Auto (impact sockets, brake bleeders, special brake/suspension tools, etc) and 99% of the time they work just fine with the 1% getting exchanged/returned.


Princess Auto is way on the other side of town for me..not convenient at all to shop personally, although I have ordered stuff from their online store. 



> I ran into a socket size issue when changing over some winter to summer tires for a friend ... turns out, after checking with my high quality craftstman socket and then measuring with a digital caliper, the nut on the brand new car was the wrong size! Good thing I changed the tires out as I found another bad one and both of these wouldn't even fit inside the supplied tire wrench, so in case of a flat, a roadside swap would have been impossible. BTW, the car was "made in the USA".


You have to be careful here..vehicles can have SAE (USA sizes such a 7/16, 1/2, 5/8. 9/16, 3/4 etc
And.... depending on where the sub assembly is made (China or Europe or even Mexico) some nuts can be metric...not all SAE wrenches will fit metric nuts and not all Metric fit SAE nuts...some may actually with a little persuasion, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway... even on a "field stripped nut" (one that has been taken off and tightened a few times)..

In my case,,I knew the mm size of the nut..this "old coot" after wrenching Motorcycles, bicycles and vehicles for many years can guestimate what size the nut should be..in the "nice Mastercraft set on sale" case, I estimated.."oh this is a 10mm"..and I took the 10mm out of the nicely packaged set with the wrenches held in a graduated fashion and marked accordingly. 

These were *NOT the high end Mastercraft wrenches *(ie: Maximum) which were a LOT more money than this "special on sale set ".... $29,99 reg "$69.99" ..they looked nice and very well chromed.
I wonder if anybody at CTC actually tried to verify the quality before distributing them to the Ottawa stores...these sets are NO longer sold..for obvious reasons.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

I have one of these Euro-Shark handheld vacuum cleaner (the Seen-on-TV type) that hasn't been working for a long time and I haven't got around to either fixing it or chucking it (bought at the height of its popularity). It stopped working when it started smoking up so I think the motor got killed ... would it be worthwhile to take it apart and attempt a fix? Anyone knows or had this problem before? Thanks if so,


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

carverman said:


> You have to be careful here..vehicles can have SAE (USA sizes such a 7/16, 1/2, 5/8. 9/16, 3/4 etc
> And.... depending on where the sub assembly is made (China or Europe or even Mexico) some nuts can be metric...not all SAE wrenches will fit metric nuts and not all Metric fit SAE nuts...some may actually with a little persuasion, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway... even on a "field stripped nut" (one that has been taken off and tightened a few times)..


I think you missed my point here, either they have really bad manufacturing/QC on their wheel nuts or someone in assembly put the wrong ones on the car. It was not an SAE vs metric issue, as mentioned, the automakers tire wrench didn't work with them.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Beaver101 said:


> It stopped working when it started smoking up so I think the motor got killed ... would it be worthwhile to take it apart and attempt a fix? Anyone knows or had this problem before? Thanks if so,


A number of things can stop working correctly when they "started smoking up", keep an eye on Colorado for evidence of this! 

But seriously, you won't know until you take it apart. If the motor windings are gone it's toast but maybe its another component that can be replaced and identified through a visual inspection.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

cainvest said:


> A number of things can stop working correctly when they "started smoking up", keep an eye on Colorado for evidence of this!


:biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> I have one of these Euro-Shark handheld vacuum cleaner (the Seen-on-TV type) that hasn't been working for a long time and I haven't got around to either fixing it or chucking it (bought at the height of its popularity). It stopped working when* it started smoking up so I think the motor *got killed ... would it be worthwhile to take it apart and attempt a fix? Anyone knows or had this problem before? Thanks if so,


Keep it until JT gets into power, then it can smoke up all it wants.:biggrin:

Of course it doesn't hurt to take it apart, what do you have to lose.if it's "dead" already?

I bought a MIC canister vac from Sears (Kenmore brand) a couple of years ago..and it worked fine until it just stopped dead. 

I had two choices..take it to my local recycle or take it apart and see what's inside that's causing it to not work.
My electrical knowlege curiosity kicked in and I had to have a go at it first to see what I could do.

Mine never smoked though...*it was much too young to start smoking *LOL!

I found that a push on connection from the on-off switch to the motor winding had come loose..no power to the motor. A quick reconnect and a bit a solder to be sure..to be sure (Irish joke sort of) and it is working like a charm!

Smoking usually means the motor bearings (ball bearing or bronze sleeve type) have dried out and causing a severe load on the motor windings turning.

I had this problem with a SHOPVAC and was able to fix it by taking the motor apart, popping off the dust shield from ball bearing on the load end of the motor..the vacumn fan, 
washing out the ball bearing with varsol, and repacking it with a good bearing grease..then pressing the dust shield back on the bearing..works like charm to this day.

Smoking can be caused by some other component besides the motor..the on-off switches,or a diode component..that sort of thing.

Sometimes it is hard to find these parts though.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

cainvest said:


> I think you missed my point here, either they have really bad manufacturing/QC on their wheel nuts or someone in assembly put the wrong ones on the car. It was not an SAE vs metric issue, as mentioned, the automakers tire wrench didn't work with them.


I hated those auto-maker useless tire wrenches..always bought a CTC crosswrench and a small hydraulic jack..I believe in "belts and suspenders" philosophy.
Wrenched my Dodge truck, motorcycles as much as I could..saved me THOUSANDS in repair costs over the years.

It was only in my last 3 years of owning the truck that I joined CAA..my legs were too weak to change a flat on my driveway or on the road.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Keep it until JT gets into power, then it can smoke up all it wants.:biggrin:
> 
> Of course it doesn't hurt to take it apart, *what do you have to lose.if it's "dead" already?*
> 
> I bought a MIC canister vac from Sears (Kenmore brand) a couple of years ago..and it worked fine until it just stopped dead.


 ... very true but I don't want to spend unncessary time taking the thing apart if it's assessed to be hopeless. But I'll give it a try ... eventually ... when I have all my instructions together or figure out what's what ... ball bearings, etc... - that's mechano/techno-speak to me. 

Btw, when are you planning to open the non-profit Repair Café or your version of (Carverman's Repair Shop) here? ride:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... very true but I don't want to spend unncessary time taking the thing apart if it's assessed to be hopeless. But I'll give it a try ... eventually ... when I have all my instructions together or figure out what's what ... ball bearings, etc... - that's mechano/techno-speak to me.


Of course, I understand Beav...but one must learn somehow. 

Too bad we are just virtual entities on CMF, because if you lived in the Ottawa area, I would repair it for free for you. I do that anyway to my local friends.


> Btw, when are you planning to open the non-profit Repair Café or your version of (Carverman's Repair Shop) here? ride:


I guess anytime the Mods decide it is a worthwhile permanent topic on CMF. If it ever happens, it wouldn't be just me..but other's who have a knowlege base of all things electrical, electronic and
mechanical,.besides, woodworking, plumbing, house electrical and home improvements. I wouldn't use my online identity though as the main title..what happens if I should get thrown under the bus.
{or run over by a bus} while in my wheelchair? 

Maybe it could be called "* Got this problem can anyone help me fix it?*

Of course, in matters of the heart, these would not be part of the discussion, only inanimate objects,
that require some discussion on:
1. Is it even worthwhile
2. What do you think it will end up costing me
3. Is it better to just toss it and buy new
4. Do I get "greenie points" for fixing it rather than have it end up in landfill


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Of course, I understand Beav...*but one must learn somehow*.
> 
> Too bad we are just virtual entities on CMF, because if you lived in the Ottawa area, I would repair it for free for you. I do that anyway to my local friends.
> 
> ...


 ... I'm 100% in agreement with you on the learning part so it's also a good thing I don't live in/near Ottwa. :biggrin:

Re why does it have to be the Mods who decides if it's a worthwhile permanent topic? Does it have to be dedicated section? How about a thread - and no, I wouldn't use your generic title, someone might think it's a thread for a quick fix on their portfolio or home-budget and not home-repairs. :biggrin: We need a title that's more specific, special or eye-catching ... your moniker seemed to be a good starter/owner for this repair shop so slim chances of you getting thrown under the bus (again). And if you don't speed with your BoomerHoggy V (I thought this stood for Vroom instead of Roman 5) and obey the traffic signal, the chances of getting run over by the bus is nil. 

Of course, this repair shop is open to any who wants to contribute - it's all voluntary. What do you say, is my A-B-C business plan good?

Re those 4 points listed - I think it makes a good checklist for the question of "to-fix this treasure or not-to-fix this junk." :encouragement:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ..
> 
> : We need a title that's more specific, special or eye-catching ... your moniker seemed to be a good starter/owner for this repair shop so slim chances of you getting thrown under the bus (again). And if you don't speed with your* BoomerHoggy V* (I thought this stood for Vroom instead of Roman 5) and obey the traffic signal, the *chances of getting run over by the bus is nil*.


Funny that you would mention it Beav, but I ALMOST GOT RUN OVER by a big delivery truck turning right and I had pressed the "Walk" signal and "technically" had the "right away", but vehicles can still turn right on this green light + "walk" signal.
I was lucky he heard me scream stop! stop!.... otherwise Carverman could have ended up run over by the 20 ton delivery truck..it can happen!



> 1:Of course, this repair shop is open to any who wants to contribute - it's all voluntary. What do you say, is my A-B-C business plan good?
> 
> 2:Re those 4 points listed - I think it makes a good checklist for the question of "to-fix this treasure or not-to-fix this junk." :encouragement:


Yes to 1 and 2. Lets face it Beav..one man's (or woman's) treasure is another man/woman's junk. There is just 'JUNK" and there is good "JUNQUE"...I'm sure you may have seen the reality series..American and Canadian Pickers that go through attics and old barns looking for that nostalgic valuable "treasure". 
or these Picker Sisters (babes),,yowsa!!!! arooohooo! I'm in love!... "why is this tractor part worth more than THAT tractor part? We have to make a choice between
buying tractor parts..or shoes?" yes gurls..that IS a tough choice! ..LOL! 

Why is it that there is always an old coot selling this junk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1xtUu77OTE

I used to watch "Pawnstars" another clever name for these wheeler-dealers that buy low and sell high.
Saw a couple Gibson guitars on that show..that were worth something but definitely not as much as the owner thought.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I remember, back in school, my electronics teacher told me that all electronics is based on smoke. If you let the smoke out of the system, the electronics wouldn't work anymore.

It's impossible to get the smoke back in once you let it out of a component.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> Funny that you would mention it Beav, but I ALMOST GOT RUN OVER by a big delivery truck turning right and I had pressed the "Walk" signal and "technically" had the "right away", but vehicles can still turn right on this green light + "walk" signal.
> I was lucky he heard me scream stop! stop!.... otherwise Carverman could have ended up run over by the 20 ton delivery truck..it can happen!
> 
> Yes to 1 and 2. Lets face it Beav..one man's (or woman's) treasure is another man/woman's junk. There is just 'JUNK" and there is good "JUNQUE"...I'm sure you may have seen the reality series..American and Canadian Pickers that go through attics and old barns looking for that nostalgic valuable "treasure".
> ...


 ...... well, don't let it happen - your repair shop hasn't even opened yet! Btw, do they give you a refresher driving course or a manual when you get a new scooter? With the incident that you have described, I think there is a potential visual problem for large vehicles driver (height) -not to able to see you on turning the corner on green light. You might need a marker - flag pole? to be mounted on your scooter so those drivers can take quicker notice of you. JMO. Also, do you have a horn on your scooter - you may want to consider sprucing up the decibels.

Re the reality shows - please calm down or do you need a tranquilizer? :biggrin: No, I haven't watched those Junk/Treasures/Garage/Warehouse Auctions(?) tv series - I heard about them and it is pretty amazing on how the buyer can be so spot on in buying at such low prices and then getting merchandises (aka treasures) that are valued at 10, 20 or 30x more than what they paid for.... too real to be true .. besides, I haven't watched tv for a long time (finally got rid of the Robbers) and the "reality" series would be the last thing I would want to watch. I would rather watch a commercial than reality tv while falling asleep. :sleeping:

Re your question - I like to ask why is it that only the 'smart" babes that are doing the buying? :biggrin:


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> I remember, back in school, my electronics teacher told me that all electronics is based on smoke. If you let the smoke out of the system, the electronics wouldn't work anymore.
> 
> It's impossible to get the smoke back in once you let it out of a component.


 ... ... not a problem - I'm still going to take apart my unit, get a visual and tinker with it - might learn a thing or two .. nothing to lose per cainvest and Carverman's points above.


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