# Investing options other than stocks/MF etc



## Johnny Cash (Apr 21, 2012)

What other options people use to invest? I am not talking about stocks, MF, ETFs, RRSP, RESP, TFSA, etc. Stock markets can crash and can stay depressed for extended period. What other strategies do people deploy to protect themselves? Do they diversify in cash, real estate, gold? Thanks Johnny


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

A bunker that's off the grid. 

Seriously, if stocks markets are down, solid gold bricks could be up, or they could not be. There are no guarantees. If there were, everyone would be all over it, but that's not the case. Your maybe safest bet would be Canadian savings bonds. But then you are behind inflation. Realistically, you've got to take on some risk to at a minimum maintain your wealth but preferably increase your net wealth.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

online poker's star rises in ontario.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/1...-underground-card-scene-fades-into-obscurity/


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

'If only' GIC's paid a reasonable rate of return versus inflation, I would dump all of my current investments in a heartbeat.

Should retired folks invest their money into something that could suddenly drop significantly in value for any number of reasons and then possibly take years to recover?:hopelessness::beaten::confused2:


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## ban (Nov 1, 2012)

Belguy said:


> 'If only' GIC's paid a reasonable rate of return versus inflation, I would dump all of my current investments in a heartbeat.
> 
> Should retired folks invest their money into something that could suddenly drop significantly in value for any number of reasons and then possibly take years to recover?:hopelessness::beaten::confused2:



It depends on your retirement age, life expectancy and current financial situation. It can go from “hell no” to “sure why not” :encouragement:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

You need this:


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## Snuff_the_Rooster (Oct 26, 2012)

Ben Stein haha

Seriously though, the look of that book reminded me immediately of "The little book that beats the markets" series by Joel Greenblatt.

http://www.amazon.com/Joel-Greenblatt/e/B000APHNTQ/ref=pd_sim_b_bl_4

I have to say I don't really understand this whole preoccupation with the idea that if the market tanks that you're going to get ruined and it may take years and years to recover. I'm not saying everyone thinks that way, but it looks like it's a major concern to a lot of people.

Everyone has access to the same tools. The real problem here is people trying to use a hammer for everything, including cleaning the windows.

It's just nuts and truly unfounded.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Snuff_the_Rooster said:


> Ben Stein haha
> Seriously though, the look of that book reminded me immediately of "The little book that beats the markets" series by Joel Greenblatt.


Yes, it is the same series by Wiley Publishing.
There are at least 8 - 10 titles in that series.
I have read Greenblatt's book as well, that you linked to.

I found the titles in this series easy reads.
These are not meant to be investing bibles, just pointers and general guidance for beginners, and for more experienced investors, they serve as reminders of value investing principles.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Back when I was a young whipper-snapper in my 20's, 30's, and 40's, I wasn't nearly as concerned about major market crashes that subsequently took a matter of years to recover from.

However, just wait until you are in your 70's and 80's and you might feel differently!!:concern::eek-new::uncomfortableness::cower:


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## Snuff_the_Rooster (Oct 26, 2012)

Belguy said:


> Back when I was a young whipper-snapper in my 20's, 30's, and 40's, I wasn't nearly as concerned about major market crashes that subsequently took a matter of years to recover from.


That's the point. Just because markets may take a long time to recover after a crash doesn't at all mean you'd suffer the same fate in magnitude and duration. It doesn't mean that at all.


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## scomac (Aug 22, 2009)

Belguy said:


> 'If only' GIC's paid a reasonable rate of return versus inflation, I would dump all of my current investments in a heartbeat.


What makes you think that they don't given the risk assumed? 

What makes you think that they ever did? Remember the 80's? By the time you deducted taxes and inflation you had lost purchasing power. The situation today maybe more favourable today for GIC's. :greedy_dollars:


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Well, I've seen a few different retirement plants in my (limited) days. I met one Russian fellow who put his life savings into bottles of wine. He listed quite a few that have become very very expensive over the years, but unfortunately the key it to purchase them before the price takes off.

An acquaintance of my father has quite the collection of classic muscle cars. Quite impressive and I admit I drooled a little bit. I'm not sure how I feel about my entire net worth in cars, but it did it for him.

Someone a few days ago on the forum mentioned an older gent who had his savings in mobile homes in his yard. Another interesting "investment".

There's always gold, but I would think that if things got so bad that the value of gold was insane... chocolate bars may do you more good.

Cash is king... prefect for those stock market crashes you speak of. Personally, what you see as the reason not to invest in stocks is where, IMO, the bulk of the money is made. Unfortunately, cash (usually) loses purchasing power overtime. The safety isn't the cash as the investment, but cash as the opportunity. 

One more alternative investment I've really been considering myself is books. With e-books and such, I have a feeling that valuable books, such as famous first editions, will become more so as paper copies become less common in general. I wouldn't put my life savings in them, but it's something I would buy and not consider the money gone.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Digital currency (bitcoin) is verry high risk with a verry high reward.

The goverment does not like digital currency but it is legal & I think in the future the goverment will turn to it to decrease the size of the under world economy i.e., individuals paying contractors under the table to reduce taxes.

The power outage in New York is an example of potential problems with a digital currency. A few differnt digital currency could come & go before one sticks & it to will @ some point die in a future generation.


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## Johnny Cash (Apr 21, 2012)

Other options my be to buy some land and forget about it for 10-15 years until it appreciates in value. Johnny


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

I hear that Florida swamp land is depressed in value at the present time. Maybe you should consider a piece of that!!!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

^ The Walt Disney Company did exactly that in the late 1960s.
Prior to that, the Orlando area was nothing more than swamps and sinkholes, rife with mosquitos and weeds.

The Walt Disney World construction began in the early 1970 - 1971.
And look what it is today.

That is true long term investing, Warren Buffet style.


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## spirit (May 9, 2009)

I have given this topic a lot of thought in the last few years. I have read many interesting posts here and on other forums that I visit. I credit this forum for helping me define what retirement means for me and thanks to all the regulars here for their advice. For my husband and myself, we have some cash and mutual funds...we also have 2 small defined pension plans. No debt. I have no stomach to invest any more money into the stock market in any shape, means, or forms. I am 61 and my retirement plan is to continue working at my profession part time until my 80's (; It helps that I am a part time workaholic, and feel very satisfied with my job. I have been working since I was 16 and love the stability a job provides. My husband has no desire to travel anymore and if I want to travel in the future I can go with my girlfriends.....I have explored other scenarios in my imagination, look at the lifestyles of my retired friends and say nope that is not for me. It's not that I have an easy job that comes with no stress....I have an extremely difficult job teaching at risk students. But the satisfaction I get in teaching kids right from wrong overrides any attempt I would make in hacking at little white balls on the golf course. 
Ok...if I won the Lotto Max this weekend, I would be so out of there.......but......my plan is to extend my career as long as they still think I am relevant in the classroom. So far, touch wood they do.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Johnny Cash said:


> What other options people use to invest? I am not talking about stocks, MF, ETFs, RRSP, RESP, TFSA, etc. Stock markets can crash and can stay depressed for extended period. What other strategies do people deploy to protect themselves? Do they diversify in cash, real estate, gold? Thanks Johnny


I am not talking about stocks, MF, ETFs, RRSP, RESP, TFSA, etc

IF you're holding cash, where do you keep it? Under your mattress?


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

Rolled up in a Cambell's soup can in the pantry. Thank you Sopranos.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

How about agricultural or forest land? My 28 acres was $500 to $1000/acre, depending on how one wants to evaluate the house and out buildings in the mix. This is of course garbage land for agriculture, but the trees do fine.

If the entire world economy collapsed and all my investments went to zero, I could in theory eke out an existence here in perpetuity without outside inputs, if I weren't shot first by a member of the hordes. I don't think any other $14,000 to $28,000 investment can provide this possibility.

What does it do for me now? I have great scenery. Space from neighbours. Ample exercise with the annual firewood cycle. More exercise in my garden, plus some better tasting and more nutritious foods (not economic of course on a cash basis/hour worked, one needs to value the exercise, better taste, nutrition components). Firewood displaces buying about $4000 fuel oil a year. The trees that remain are the high grade ones that some heir will sell for saw or veneer logs. My neighbours get to bow hunt, though with a new 6 month old, they have not been by this year yet. Dog has a good place to run, though the little ***** is caught on the road many times these days. 

All in all, not bad for $14,000 to $28,000.

hboy43


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

HHB you are talking about living your dream. That is great and hopefully provides you with some peace of mind.

For the average urban soul, that represents purgatory. That is the reason the Starbucks does so well. It is also a long trip to the sailboat!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

spirit said:


> I have given this topic a lot of thought in the last few years ... my retirement plan is to continue working at my profession part time until my 80's ... It's not that I have an easy job that comes with no stress....I have an extremely difficult job teaching at risk students. But the satisfaction I get in teaching kids right from wrong overrides any attempt I would make in hacking at little white balls on the golf course.


i each: this statement ! it should be framed & handed out to every geriatric social worker & medical worker across canada as an example of what their clientele should be striving for in terms of a healthy & satisfying old age.

may you win the Lotto as a sidebar present, spirit, but even if you did i'd hope that you would still see fit to carry on teaching at-risk youth in some manner. Who knows, if a person like yourself had billions of $$ you'd probably even know a way to fund a program that would, in the end, make a huge difference to the lives of many young canadians ...

but Lotto or not, you are an inspiration. Chapeaux !


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> You need this:


Bueller . . . Bueller . . .


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## Johnny Cash (Apr 21, 2012)

Spirit: your reply was really good and thought provoking. Why should somebody retire if they are enjoying what they are doing. What will excite you in your retirement is the key and it is a personal preference. Although I am not near retirement yet but I am trying to find an answer for myself. 

Hboy43: I liked your reasons for buying some forest land without expecting ROI right away. Where can you find cheap forest land within 3-6 h of the driving distance from GTA? I read somewhere that a couple from the US bought cheap forestland in 70's in the Bruce area, made hiking trails and donated to a charity after 40 years. 

Johnny


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Johnny Cash said:


> I read somewhere that a couple from the US bought cheap forestland in 70's in the Bruce area, made hiking trails and donated to a charity after 40 years.
> 
> Johnny


I'll bet that they did this because they could not sell it. I know someone who had a forest lot 2 hours NE of the GTA. Had a trailer on it. Tried to sell it for years when the adventurous spirit had worn off. The market is very thin. And such lots are plentiful.


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## Johnny Cash (Apr 21, 2012)

I believe that it was donated for tax reasons.

Also, I am not looking to sell the forest land unless my kids like to do so in the future. But you are right - it may be very difficult to sell just a forest land unless there is something of value in it such as near water, beach, or agricultural land, possible residential zone in 30-40 years, etc.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

kcowan said:


> HHB you are talking about living your dream. That is great and hopefully provides you with some peace of mind.
> 
> For the average urban soul, that represents purgatory. That is the reason the Starbucks does so well. It is also a long trip to the sailboat!


Ha, you are quite right on all fronts.

Still, the dollar amount is so low that I think a case could be made for the right city person to just own the raw land (no buildings other than a shed perhaps) and using it as a rural retreat with a cheap trailer. There must be a few city people left who like a little rural in their lives, cottages seem in high demand.

hboy43


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

lonewolf said:


> Digital currency (bitcoin) is verry high risk with a verry high reward.
> 
> The goverment does not like digital currency but it is legal & I think in the future the goverment will turn to it to decrease the size of the under world economy i.e., individuals paying contractors under the table to reduce taxes.
> 
> The power outage in New York is an example of potential problems with a digital currency. A few differnt digital currency could come & go before one sticks & it to will @ some point die in a future generation.


 I failed to diversify put a small amount on the table to play this one. I doubt if anyone took my post seriously as an investment alternitive to stocks when I posted it before the currency took off. Years before bitcoin came on the market Prechtor said it was coming & recomended putting a very very small amount of money into.


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## Greenback (Mar 16, 2013)

I can tell you what a husband and wife doctor did, as well well as someone else who had some "spare" cash.
They bought "vacation" property. From my new subdivision in a "rural" area. Their investment is rock solid and will hold it's value.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm 15% inMIC's and they yield just over 5% (down from 10% a few yrs ago). Anyways, they add some diversification and I understand where you are coming from.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Surprised no one really talks about rental income. Of course, in the GTA, there really isn't much of an option, but outside there are some great opportunities. 

There's a buddy of mine who is cashing in on the shortage of workers. He rents to Philipino workers. Each one pays around 300-350/month and share a room. He buys big places, with lots of bedrooms. 4-6 people can generate quite the cash flow for a 2-3 bedroom place. 

Nice, clean and respectful tenants that don't cause problems (from what he says).

Personally, I've been doing well picking up cheap real estate. Rents have never been this good, and the leverage makes it very profitable. 

I'd suggest looking at www.easysafemoney.com, for the best way to get started.


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