# Cheapest Internet/TV/Phone - Ottawa Area



## thompsg4416

I've seen a few other posts here regarding Toronto and I think Alberta but nothing directly for the Ottawa area.

I'm moving home after a quite a few years abroad and I'm looking to get the best deal possible. 

From what I gather Teck savey seems to be the cheapest internet as long as it doesn't break. What about cell phones and TV? 

I may install an open air antenna to catch some free TV and well cell phones seems to be a hard one to pin point. There are a couple new companies I've read about but are they any good int he oTtawa area?

I'd like to avoid the big companies and thier high prices if possible.. I.E Bell/Rogers/Telus unless they've somehow come undone and started offering low prices.

Has anyone tried this company called Acanac?

Edited to add::: I just read a bunch of reports on Acanac. Apparently the customer service is terrible as are the speeds. 

What are you doing?


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## gardner

The cheapest mobile phone is 7-11 SpeakOut -- but you have to send away online for a SIM because 7-11 no longer operates in Ontario. You CAN get an Ontario number, no problem.

The next cheapest, and more convenient is PetroCan mobility. I use this. You can by a SIM from any PetroCan for $5 and you can pay as little as $25 per 4-months to keep an account going.

Both operate on the Rogers network and coverage is good.


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## Spudd

We use start.ca for internet. I think they are Ontario-wide, but you can check availability on their website. We've been very happy with the service and prices. 

For TV, Netflix is only $9/mo and has quite a bit to watch, especially if you have a way to be "American". 

I don't know how much usage you have for cellphone. If you want a full package with data and everything, Wind is pretty good (although coverage is spotty outside the cities). I personally don't use my phone that much so I do pay-go with Rogers for $10/mo.


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## protomok

Internet -> we're using Rogers for Internet. Although I despise them (a lot!), their plans are the cheapest I've found. The only catch is you have to be willing to fight them every year to maintain a retention plan. We're paying $31/month for internet (after taxes) due to our retention plan with them. Also you would likely have to pay full price the first 8 - 12 months before they're willing to give you a retention plan.

TV -> We use OTA + Netflix . I've been really happy with our Antennas Direct DB-4e which I got at a place called FTA Tronix on Carling. Also there's another forum called Digital Home which has an OTA section with lots of Canadians who are Antenna enthusiasts and would be more than willing to help if you have reception issues.

Cell Phone -> I think Wind has pretty competitive prices but definitely shop around.

Home Phone -> We use VOIP, it costs us < $5 /month.


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## carverman

thompsg4416 said:


> I've seen a few other posts here regarding Toronto and I think Alberta but nothing directly for the Ottawa area.
> 
> I'm moving home after a quite a few years abroad and I'm looking to get the best deal possible.
> 
> From what I gather Teck savvy seems to be the cheapest internet as long as it doesn't break. What about cell phones and TV?


Yes they are. I got DSL 7 now and satisfied with their service too.



> I may install an open air antenna to catch some free TV and well cell phones seems to be a hard one to pin point.


Thats what I installed after dumping "bull". Got a nice amplflied OTA antenna (http://www.consumersearch.com/tv-antennas/winegard-ss-3000)
and it works pretty good on most channels..enough that I will never go back to the robbers,
As far as cellphone, I dumped Bell years ago and went with WIND with a $25 a month plan (not available anymore) and converted my cell phone (purchased) to pay-as-you go and
that is the best deal for me since WIND only charges for outgoing calls and I have Tek Savvy VOIP home phone $9,99 a month for pretty much all my calling needs.

I dumped "robbers" a long time ago..and Bell TV last fall, (only had standard tv channels) and those were a ripoff at almost $50. Same commercials ad nauseum but on different channels these
days. 




> Has anyone tried this company called Acanac?
> 
> Edited to add::: I just read a bunch of reports on Acanac. Apparently the customer service is terrible as are the speeds.
> 
> What are you doing?


Never tried Acanac but I tried another Ottawa area internet provider (DISTRIBUTEL) and their service was NON EXISTENT. I went for cable internet with them (old Rogers infrastructure) and I had dropouts almost daily...garbage..lots of frustration. 
Tried calling their support..all I got was recordings almost never got called back and if they did..usually a couple days later when I was not at home, and they would leave a message
to call them back and the delay cycle would repeat again.


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## My Own Advisor

Internet -> Rogers. We pay about $40 per month after my last negotiation, now/should be/better be on a 2-year retention term for that. This term expires May 2016.

TV -> Rogers. I thought about using OTA + Netflix but I don't care for the reception issues nor missing HBO shows. For now, I'm willing to pay my $80 per month for this.

Cell Phone -> Koodo. I negotiated about $50 per month for unlimited everything.

Home Phone -> We use VOIP from Fongo. I just wrote a post about that here and you can keep your home phone number and port it to Fongo:
http://www.myownadvisor.ca/cut-rogers-went-fongo-home-phone/


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## andrewf

I wouldn't bother with cable. DSL is a better value proposition, at least in the GTA. Upload bandwidth for cable is absolutely pathetic. Upload speeds can severely impact performance, so don't just look at the downlink speeds.


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> I wouldn't bother with cable. DSL is a better value proposition, at least in the GTA. Upload bandwidth for cable is absolutely pathetic. Upload speeds can severely impact performance, so don't just look at the downlink speeds.


Also more reliable too. The dry loop connection (usually a former Bell land line) goes directly (through a Bell subscriber interface box in your neighbourhood) to the Bell local digital switching office. 
So you don't have to deal with Rogers cables cable amp issues or rotten buried drop (coax cables) that get saturated with moisture over the years. 

I have the Rogers and Bell terminals just outside my property line since I have a corner lot. 
The Rogers techs are always running new surface cable lines outside my property, because the original buried cable has deteriorated since the places were built 42 years ago.


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## protomok

My Own Advisor said:


> Internet -> Rogers. We pay about $40 per month after my last negotiation, now/should be/better be on a 2-year retention term for that. This term expires May 2016.
> 
> http://www.myownadvisor.ca/cut-rogers-went-fongo-home-phone/


Nice job on getting a 2-year term, I only locked in one year in my last negotiation. Unfortunately it looks like the prices have gone up quite a bit. In addition to the sneaky ~$3-$6 / year price increases it looks like they've restructured their plans to move people into different plans.

For example my plan used to be called "Rogers Express Plan" with 25Mbps down / 2Mbps up / 80 gig cap with an official price of $51.99/month. The $51.99/month plan is now called "Hybrid Fibre 10" but gives you an embarrassing 10Mbps down / 1Mbps up / 25 gig cap. Pretty much impossible to use Netflix with a 25 gig cap  Forces everyone to jump up to the more expensive plan ($61.99/month or more), gahhhh.

end Rogers rant lol.

@andrewf - why so concerned with upload? Aside from uploading torrents or frequent Facebook video uploads I doubt the average user really needs a > 1 or 2Mbps upload speed.


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## doctrine

$61.99 a month? You should look at Teksavvy's prices and see what you get with that much per month.


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## livewell

Internet -> TekSavvy 30Mb/s 300GB per month cable $45 per month - was on TekSavvy DSL but for my location cable is faster. have received good service basically a good pipe to internet no frills works for me.

TV - OTA + Netflix, + apple TV + unblockus and bbc iplayer - use a home-buiit antenna in the loft (Gray-Hoverman design google it if your interested) get about 8 HD channels (Including CBC, CTV, TVO, Omni 1, 2, citytv)

Mobile - Virgin - iphone 400Mbit/month data, free canada calling $40/month

No land line - got fed up with the only people calling us were trying to sell me stuff. Cancelled and haven't missed it


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## My Own Advisor

For sure Teksavvy is cheaper but they use Rogers' lines. If any issues, you're out of luck and must wait until Rogers does something about it. Just a precaution, but overall, I've heard Teksavvy is quite good.

With Teksavvy, up to 30 Mbps for $45 before tax.

With Rogers, Fibre 30, up to 30 Mbps for $62 before tax. I suspect you could negotiate 10% off (if you're an existing customer) which makes it competitive to Teksavvy for the same service.

@protomok, I think I got very lucky with the negotiations. 

Also, the prices have definitely jumped in recent months, since the winter. I used to have the "Express Plan" I recall. I think the $62 plan would be more than fine for Netflix, the issue with that is the 70 GB cap if you're a heavy online user (I'm not).


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## e86s54

carverman said:


> Also more reliable too. The dry loop connection (usually a former Bell land line) goes directly (through a Bell subscriber interface box in your neighbourhood) to the Bell local digital switching office.
> So you don't have to deal with Rogers cables cable amp issues or rotten buried drop (coax cables) that get saturated with moisture over the years.
> 
> I have the Rogers and Bell terminals just outside my property line since I have a corner lot.
> The Rogers techs are always running new surface cable lines outside my property, because the original buried cable has deteriorated since the places were built 42 years ago.


Having worked extensively with both CATV and local loop and long haul transport, I disagree with choosing Bell over Rogers. Cable plant quality largely depends on the exact area. Amp failure in hybrid fiber coax networks is becoming less and less of an issue as fiber goes deeper towards the customer demarc. In most situations, you are not more than 3 amps deep from the fiber node. Finally, Bell twisted pair is less suitable for broadband than coax. Coax can handle much broader spectrum than UTP. Finally, UTP is as much if not more susceptible to problems like water ingress and damage than coax. 

What I would say is that going with the lowest cost provider isn't always the best choice. I would speak with neighbors and see what the consensus best service/cost and terms of service. I have two locations, I use DSL from a 3rd party provider at one and CATV at the other. I had to switch a few times to get the best one. I also no longer have TV services as I download/stream everything and for sports I just have their services (Center Ice and MLBTV).

I have also worked in mobility (cellular) for many years). Most low price carriers are using larger carrier networks (if not owned by them). I have tested a few and I find you get what you pay for. I had a great plan with Virgin once...almost unusable. I have Rogers for my cell.

Finally, no I don't work for any of these companies.


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## livewell

e86s54 said:


> Having worked extensively with both CATV and local loop and long haul transport, I disagree with choosing Bell over Rogers. Cable plant quality largely depends on the exact area. Amp failure in hybrid fiber coax networks is becoming less and less of an issue as fiber goes deeper towards the customer demarc. In most situations, you are not more than 3 amps deep from the fiber node. Finally, Bell twisted pair is less suitable for broadband than coax. Coax can handle much broader spectrum than UTP. Finally, UTP is as much if not more susceptible to problems like water ingress and damage than coax.
> 
> What I would say is that going with the lowest cost provider isn't always the best choice. I would speak with neighbors and see what the consensus best service/cost and terms of service. I have two locations, I use DSL from a 3rd party provider at one and CATV at the other. I had to switch a few times to get the best one. I also no longer have TV services as I download/stream everything and for sports I just have their services (Center Ice and MLBTV).
> 
> I have also worked in mobility (cellular) for many years). Most low price carriers are using larger carrier networks (if not owned by them). I have tested a few and I find you get what you pay for. I had a great plan with Virgin once...almost unusable. I have Rogers for my cell.
> 
> Finally, no I don't work for any of these companies.


 I agree from my experience the performance of DSL vs cable is very location dependent.

Regarding mobile my experience with Virgin in Ottawa has been different to yours. I believe Virgin is owned by Bell and uses Bell network, I get LTE in probably 50%+ locations in Ottawa, and 3G everywhere else. Have been quite impressed with performance (LTE is pretty impressive technology). Only thing with Virgin is having to put up with customer service communicating with you as though your a 15 year old ... really.


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## Eclectic12

My Own Advisor said:


> For sure Teksavvy is cheaper but they use Rogers' lines. If any issues, you're out of luck and must wait until Rogers does something about it. Just a precaution, but overall, I've heard Teksavvy is quite good...


 ... and a post I read a while back from the GTA was complaining that Teksavvy's DSL in the GTA were using Bell lines so that issues had to wait on Bell's techs.

Go figure ....



Cheers


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## carverman

doctrine said:


> $61.99 a month? You should look at Teksavvy's prices and see what you get with that much per month.


+1 

I have Tek Savvy DSL7..(up to 7mpbs) and I watch a lot of Netflix..no problem with streaming videos. Also they have a window between 1 am and 7am where your usage is not counted against the monthly bandwidth. 

TekSavvy has rolled out their new Fiber services from Bell's Fibe for amazing prices. The 7Mbps 300GB at $29.99 is cheaper than the 6Mbps 300Gb that a lot of people were on, and the 15Mbps 300GB is the same price as the 6Mbps at $32.99. There is a $50 activation fee for moving from the 6Mbps internet to any of the new DSL services. Your old modem can still be used up to the 15/1 service. 

http://www.teksavvy.com/en/residential/internet/dsl


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## carverman

e86s54 said:


> Coax can handle much broader spectrum than UTP. Finally, UTP is as much if not more susceptible to problems like water ingress and damage than coax.
> 
> What I would say is that going with the lowest cost provider isn't always the best choice. I would speak with neighbors and see what the consensus best service/cost and terms of service. I have two locations, I use DSL from a 3rd party provider at one and CATV at the other. I had to switch a few times to get the best one. I also no longer have TV services as I download/stream everything and for sports I just have their services (Center Ice and MLBTV).
> 
> 
> Finally, no I don't work for any of these companies.


LoL! ^

YMMV as they say. My neighbour had to have her Rogers cable replaced recently. Another neighbour down the street was experiencing internet dropouts and she was on Rogers cable internet. 
They had to install a signal booster amp at her house. I experienced similar signal dropouts on both Rogers internet that I had for a few months then later on with Distributel.
I went to WIND for a while with the USB datastick antenna (using Cellular HSPA) and experienced the occassional signal droppouts with that too.
Problem with that service was the 10GB per month data cap they imposed and subsequent speed reduction after you exceeded the cap..useless for Netflix..but it was cheap at $25 a month.


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## carverman

My Own Advisor said:


> For sure Teksavvy is *cheaper but they use Rogers' lines*. If any issues, you're out of luck and must wait until Rogers does something about it. Just a precaution, but overall, I've heard Teksavvy is quite good.


Where did you hear that? 

My original dry loop line goes to the Bell terminal box outside my property line. When I had Tek Savvy DSL 7 installed. The BELL TECH (whatever they call themselves
now these days) came to my house to check the buried drop line from the protector block at the electrical panel to the Bell terminal box making sure the signal strength would be acceptable.
Then the TekSavvy tech came into my house with his setup gear to test the internet service.
No Rogers techs came around for DSL.

When I tried cable internet..yes the Rogers techs came around for the installation.


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## My Own Advisor

@Eclectic12 I didn't know that....

Maybe just the Ottawa-area then for Teksavvy?


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## My Own Advisor

@caverman, I was told by Teksavvy here in Ottawa, but could be my area only (south of Ottawa).


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## livewell

Throughout Ontario TekSavvy uses Bell network for DSL and Rogers network for cable. It is essentially the same product as Bell/Rogers but different price point. At one time on TekSavvy DSL I had a technical issue, that ultimately required a Bell technician to resolve, because TekSavvy is sub-contracting to Bell if the the issue is yours and not Bell's then TekSavvy has to pay Bell for the call-out, so you have to agree to pay for the service call if the problem is found to be yours. It is a bit of a potential downside with TekSavvy, but in practice I have not found it to be a real problem, and the lower prices + MUCH bigger caps plenty offset it.


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## carverman

My Own Advisor said:


> @caverman, I was told by Teksavvy here in Ottawa, but could be my area only (south of Ottawa).


I used to work for Bell in Ottawa in the 70s..1A key + residential installation as well. Bell owned the infrastructure then, and I'm sure it still owns the original infrastructure now.
If you are referring to new developments such as Barrhaven-Fallowfield and other place in Ottawa south where fibre has been installed instead of individual copper lines, that
may be the case..I don't know those areas..maybe there is an agreement between Bell and Rogers to provide the infrastructure rather than have TWO service providers install duplicate
infrastructure..which is very expensive.

In any case, once the digital service (internet, digital phone etc) reaches the appropriate Bell switching office to get onto the Public switched telephone network..
The location of the cable and fibre distribution center depends on the type of service, and who is the PRIME service provider for that area. 

It is possible that Rogers may even have their own end office for switching calls/tv/internet and uses digital trunks to then switch any telephone calls over to the appropriate Bell end office,
which then homes in on the Bell Toll office in Ottawa. which is O'CONNOR ST. 

There has been a lot of change in the last few years with infrastructure spending.


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## carverman

livewell said:


> Throughout Ontario TekSavvy uses Bell network for DSL and Rogers network for cable. It is essentially the same product as Bell/Rogers but different price point. At one time on TekSavvy DSL I had a technical issue, that ultimately required a Bell technician to resolve, because TekSavvy is sub-contracting to Bell if the the issue is yours and not Bell's then TekSavvy has to pay Bell for the call-out, so you have to agree to pay for the service call if the problem is found to be yours.


Yes. That is why you need to have Teksavvy help you troubleshoot your internet up to the demarcation point.

If the problem lies with a Bell provided line shared by Teksavvy, then you are not are Bell customer, so you would have to pay for Bell to come to your place and investigate. 

Teksavvy will not investigate any wiring issue inside your house...ie: disconnected/loose connections. 
If you cannot establish continuity to the cable entrance or dry loop entrance (DSL) within your home, you have to arrange for that service and pay out of pocket for it. 



> It is a bit of a potential downside with TekSavvy, but in practice I have not found it to be a real problem, and the lower prices + MUCH bigger caps plenty offset it.


I only had one issue with Teksavvy and it turned out to be a bad DNS server at their end. They switched me over to a new DNS (Domain Name Server) and all is well.


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## e86s54

carverman said:


> LoL! ^
> 
> YMMV as they say. My neighbour had to have her Rogers cable replaced recently. Another neighbour down the street was experiencing internet dropouts and she was on Rogers cable internet.
> They had to install a signal booster amp at her house. I experienced similar signal dropouts on both Rogers internet that I had for a few months then later on with Distributel.
> I went to WIND for a while with the USB datastick antenna (using Cellular HSPA) and experienced the occassional signal droppouts with that too.
> Problem with that service was the 10GB per month data cap they imposed and subsequent speed reduction after you exceeded the cap..useless for Netflix..but it was cheap at $25 a month.


What are "signal drop outs"? Any service impairment aside from a complete outage is essentially an increase in BER (Bit Error Rate). If you don't have a signal strength meter, you have no way of discerning low signal from internet congestion. So its just conjecture as you have no real way of knowing. FYI, CATV service guys routinely add home amps as they don't want to spend the time troubleshooting the real problem (measurements not as designed). If there are bridger problems (residential distribution) that are causing low signal, many customers in the same area would experience the same problems to varying extents. 

Cellular networks are for mobility and not really designed and sold for fixed use. Most of their problems in urban areas, from a signal standpoint, are not signal loss, but co-channel interference (interference from channel reuse).


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## e86s54

carverman said:


> I used to work for Bell in Ottawa in the 70s..1A key + residential installation as well. Bell owned the infrastructure then, and I'm sure it still owns the original infrastructure now.
> If you are referring to new developments such as Barrhaven-Fallowfield and other place in Ottawa south where fibre has been installed instead of individual copper lines, that
> may be the case..I don't know those areas..maybe there is an agreement between Bell and Rogers to provide the infrastructure rather than have TWO service providers install duplicate
> infrastructure..which is very expensive.
> 
> In any case, once the digital service (internet, digital phone etc) reaches the appropriate Bell switching office to get onto the Public switched telephone network..
> The location of the cable and fibre distribution center depends on the type of service, and who is the PRIME service provider for that area.
> 
> It is possible that Rogers may even have their own end office for switching calls/tv/internet and uses digital trunks to then switch any telephone calls over to the appropriate Bell end office,
> which then homes in on the Bell Toll office in Ottawa. which is O'CONNOR ST.
> 
> There has been a lot of change in the last few years with infrastructure spending.


They don't share infrastructure except for perhaps poles and man holes.

Rogers HFC networks would transport services back to the headend. From there they would have a class5 switch (likely a soft switch now) to interconnect with the PSTN (Bell and others) and their own intranet.

Bell's UTP would not necessarily go directly to the central office (CO). It could go to a DSLAM in an a neighborhood. From there telephone services (if not VOIP) would be carried via DS-0 transport to a class 5 switch. The internet service (along with TV) would be carried via ATM/SONET or now perhaps MPLS to the wider web.


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## carverman

e86s54 said:


> They don't share infrastructure except for perhaps poles and man holes.
> 
> Rogers HFC networks would transport services back to the headend. From there they would have a class5 switch (likely a soft switch now) to interconnect with the PSTN (Bell and others) and their own intranet.
> 
> Bell's UTP would not necessarily go directly to the central office (CO). It could go to a DSLAM in an a neighborhood. From there telephone services (if not VOIP) would be carried via DS-0 transport to a class 5 switch. The internet service (along with TV) would be carried via ATM/SONET or now perhaps MPLS to the wider web.


Thanks for the update. I knew there was a lot of changes since I worked at Bell in the early 70s and Nortel on the Digtal network switches (DMS) fro 1980-2002 at Carling.


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## e86s54

carverman said:


> Thanks for the update. I knew there was a lot of changes since I worked at Bell in the early 70s and Nortel on the Digtal network switches (DMS) fro 1980-2002 at Carling.


Yeah...much has changed! Didn't work too much in Ottawa, more in Toronto and Front street, but as a third party carrier.


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## carverman

e86s54 said:


> What are "signal drop outs"? Any service impairment aside from a complete outage is essentially an increase in BER (Bit Error Rate). If you don't have a signal strength meter, you have no way of discerning low signal from internet congestion. So its just conjecture as you have no real way of knowing. FYI, CATV service guys routinely add home amps as they don't want to spend the time troubleshooting the real problem (measurements not as designed). If there are bridger problems (residential distribution) that are causing low signal, many customers in the same area would experience the same problems to varying extents.


Don't know. All I know is that the signal quality on my Rogers cable caused many "errors" (No internet service"), and that was fairly persistent with my ISP and internet cable service.
They never sent anyone to investigate why I had so many incidents of loss of internet with my phone in complaints. 

In the end I got fed up with their lackadaisical support, and switched ISPs to TekSavvy. Since that time (last fall) no more issues with loss of service.


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## doctrine

Okay - this is simple. Teksavvy rents bandwidth from Bell for DSL/fibre optic services. Teksavvy rents bandwidth from Rogers for cable internet services. You can sign up for either depending on your specific location. While you are dealing with a 3rd-party-ish in Teksavvy, which may introduce delays for tech support based on actual hardware faults, you also save 30-50% in costs, especially for higher bandwidth and data transfer limits.


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## carverman

doctrine said:


> Okay - this is simple. Teksavvy rents bandwidth from Bell for DSL/fibre optic services. Teksavvy rents bandwidth from Rogers for cable internet services. You can sign up for either depending on your specific location. While you are dealing with a 3rd-party-ish in Teksavvy, which may introduce delays for tech support based on actual hardware faults, you also save 30-50% in costs, especially for higher bandwidth and data transfer limits.


Agreed. Teksavvy with their DSL 7 service seems to be the best bang for the internet buck. I also have a VOIP home line with them. I bought my own DSL+2 modem and their recommended
Grandstream VOIP adapter (after trying another one that gave me problems) I don't pay out the rental charges per month. 

As far as troubleshooting any "no internet service" issues, you have to know enough about the connections at the back of your computer to the DSL modem and ATA to be able to troubleshoot problems with them. If you call them, ( and they seem to call back within a reasonable time frame with knowledgeable people at their tech support centre) they will work with you until your problem is resolved..I like that) they open a trouble ticket and work with you until your issue is resolved. They can even get into your modem or ATA and
examine it for any errors reported. Each device has its own local IP address for troubleshooting or confirming its firmware. 

Early this year, I had a *no internet issue* that appeared to be my modem issue,(at least at first), but after buying a spare modem, we discovered the problem was with their DNS server, the server that translates a domain name to a internet IP address, and that took a couple of days to resolve..unfortunately,
as initially they were suspecting my OWNED modem. 

They ended up moving me onto another DNS server and I had to datafill the appropriate server parameters in my computer, so that the IP layer knew what DNS server I was using. 

I think it's the IP layer, as the protocols for internet are bit more complex with TCP/IP etc....

http://searchunifiedcommunications.techtarget.com/definition/Internet-Protocol

*What I have saved now is their TEKSAVVY IP address for their website. 206.248.155.70 =www.Teksavvy,com

This is the actual IP address of their website. If you enter these numbers into a blank google browser page that will still come up on your screen but
telling you that the website is unavailable..it will get you to their online website.

If I have any further issues with domain name translation..I can enter the actual IP address to verify if I can get to their website at least.*
AND 
This proves out my modem, ATA and the in house connections as well. 

Had I known this at the beginning of the year, I could have saved myself hours of frustration on my CELL phone (pay as you go charges!) to be able to troubleshoot the issue with
them. Afterwards, I got a rebate for 48 hrs of service disruption, but this did not compensate me for having to buy a spare modem or my cell phone charges.

Everyone that subscribes to third party IP providers needs to be aware of this. They generally will not send a tech to your home to troubleshoot your problem.
*If you really think you need one, then you have to pay out of pocket for this service.*

Rogers old cable infrastructure aside, if there is a dsl problem in the dry loop from the twisted copper protector block near the electrical panel to the outside Bell box, they will send
out a Xpertech serviceman to check out continuity, as contractors can cut through underground drop wires or cables.


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## thompsg4416

Wow I went away on business for a bit and I got so many replies - thanks! Tek Savvy ADSL is def over Bell lines. 

So I've done some research and this is my setup:

Internet : Savvy internet is 15mb down(300 GB/month download) for 43Cad including taxes/month plus $200 setup.

TV: roku tV box $125 including taxes for the box and 7.99/month for netflix if I choose. 

Phone: Fongo VOIP – 4.99/month and a 60 dollar setup fee. International long Distance is free and canadian calls are free.

Total setup fees are around 400 and monthly fee's under 60. 

Any comments? Am I missing something? It almost sounds too good to be true.

G.


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## james4beach

I wasn't aware of Fongo but it sounds it sounds impressive, if the call quality is good. I use callcentric for VoIP. It's more expensive than fongo but the audio quality is excellent and I've found it to be reliable over many years.

It would be nice to hear from others who use Fongo, to see if they have just as good experiences as myownadvisor.

Some notes about 911 (see this link to fongo). Remember that the phone service goes over your internet. So if you have a power outage or internet outage, you don't have telephone and therefore can't dial 911. I personally wouldn't use VoIP unless I have a secondary means of making phone calls, like a cell phone.

With 911 on VoIP, also beware that unlike traditional 911 on a real phone, the emergency operators can't automatically know your location. This is a definite downside for safety purposes. The address associated with your number may be based on a billing address you gave at the time of setup, but it may not actually reflect your true location.

This could be a real problem, so be very careful. You might one day face an emergency where you hastily make a 911 call and are unable to speak and communicate your location.


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## My Own Advisor

Good point about e911 james...although most VOIP providers are similar.

Definitely need a cell phone as a backup for an emergency, or a home generator to keep part of the power grid up and running.

A buddy of mine uses VOIP.ms. No complaints from him.


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## andrewf

I think you can still plug a handset into a phone line without service (such as dry loop) and dial 911. But most people have a cell phone that would serve just as well.


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## cainvest

andrewf said:


> I think you can still plug a handset into a phone line without service (such as dry loop) and dial 911. But most people have a cell phone that would serve just as well.


Interesting point, I'll have to try that and see if I get a dial tone as I still have copper lines running into the house ... would be nice as a second backup for emergencies.

We had a power outage for 6 hours yesterday and I'm on shaw phone (kind of like voip) so having a cell phone is a must if want to stay connected. Even with UPS/backup power, shaw phone/internet is down when the area is without power so keep that in mind. I do wonder if DSL stays active in a power outage, in theory it should providing you have backup power at home.


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## protomok

thompsg4416 said:


> Any comments? Am I missing something? It almost sounds too good to be true.


I guess no OTA then? It's a one time fee, but $0/month after that  There's also an Ottawa based company called Tablo TV that has a pretty cool product that allows you to access your OTA channels via a Roku (or other systems such as Apple TV) which would be an option (http://www.tablotv.com/).

@James4beach
I'm with voip.ms and we pay $1.50 for e911 which allows the dispatcher to get our info if we were to call 911. Voip.ms also provides a way to verify that e911 is working OK, more info here: http://wiki.voip.ms/article/E911.

Hmmm, I've never tried calling 911 through the landline without service. But I wouldn't know how to test this aside from test calling 911 which I don't really want to do. I don't mind paying $1.50 / month for some peace of mind but to each their own.


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> I think you can still plug a handset into a phone line without service (such as dry loop) and dial 911. But most people have a cell phone that would serve just as well.


How are you going to do that on a dry loop with no dial tone provided by the Bell office? 9-1-1 are two distinct DTMF tones that require a DTMF receiver at the Line Module end in a Bell subcriber
(Class 5) office. 

When a digital line is equipped and the line goes off hook, the line card at the other end detects the off hook and connects a DTMF receiver to collect digits. Those digits are routed to
a translater that routes the 911 call. 

If your internet connection is up and the ATA and DSL modem is operational, the DTMF tones and conversation is converted to digital packets by the ATA/MODEM router combo.
No internet..no VOIP phone service..same thing goes for local power outages. That is why you need a emergency cell phone for those situations.


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## My Own Advisor

@protomok,

thanks for the link...I didn't know about the Ottawa-based company (Local) called Tablo TV.

(http://www.tablotv.com/).

The only problem where I live, south of the city, very few OTA HDTV channels.


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## livewell

My Own Advisor said:


> @protomok,
> 
> thanks for the link...I didn't know about the Ottawa-based company (Local) called Tablo TV.
> 
> (http://www.tablotv.com/).
> 
> The only problem where I live, south of the city, very few OTA HDTV channels.


 There are two broadcast locations around Ottawa, one at Camp Fortune to the North and one at Blacks Corner near Manotick. the CF station gives pretty good signal to most areas around Ottawa. If you go to www.tvfool.com and put in your postal code in the interactive TV coverage browser, it gives you information on what stations you can pick up with indoor/attic or roof mounted attennas


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## My Own Advisor

Thanks livewell. Looking at using an indoor OTA in the future. Rogers is getting too expensive for my liking. 

We live not far from Manotick.


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## e86s54

cainvest said:


> Interesting point, I'll have to try that and see if I get a dial tone as I still have copper lines running into the house ... would be nice as a second backup for emergencies.
> .


Once the loop is disconnected (coil pulled in the central office), the pair is dead and so you will not have any service including 911


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## e86s54

carverman said:


> Early this year, I had a *no internet issue* that appeared to be my modem issue,(at least at first), but after buying a spare modem, we discovered the problem was with their DNS server, the server that translates a domain name to a internet IP address, and that took a couple of days to resolve..unfortunately,
> as initially they were suspecting my OWNED modem.
> 
> They ended up moving me onto another DNS server and I had to datafill the appropriate server parameters in my computer, so that the IP layer knew what DNS server I was using.
> 
> I think it's the IP layer, as the protocols for internet are bit more complex with TCP/IP etc....
> 
> http://searchunifiedcommunications.techtarget.com/definition/Internet-Protocol
> 
> *What I have saved now is their TEKSAVVY IP address for their website. 206.248.155.70 =www.Teksavvy,com
> 
> This is the actual IP address of their website. If you enter these numbers into a blank google browser page that will still come up on your screen but
> telling you that the website is unavailable..it will get you to their online website.
> 
> If I have any further issues with domain name translation..I can enter the actual IP address to verify if I can get to their website at least.*
> AND
> This proves out my modem, ATA and the in house connections as well.
> 
> Had I known this at the beginning of the year, I could have saved myself hours of frustration on my CELL phone (pay as you go charges!) to be able to troubleshoot the issue with
> them. Afterwards, I got a rebate for 48 hrs of service disruption, but this did not compensate me for having to buy a spare modem or my cell phone charges.
> 
> Everyone that subscribes to third party IP providers needs to be aware of this. They generally will not send a tech to your home to troubleshoot your problem.
> *If you really think you need one, then you have to pay out of pocket for this service.*
> 
> Rogers old cable infrastructure aside, if there is a dsl problem in the dry loop from the twisted copper protector block near the electrical panel to the outside Bell box, they will send
> out a Xpertech serviceman to check out continuity, as contractors can cut through underground drop wires or cables.


First, the DNS servers are given in the dynamic IP hanshake. But I use Google's DNS servers directly in my router. They are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. End of problems.

If you want to find out where the IP datagrams route is failing, try going to command promt (type cmd) at your start menu. Then type the trace route command 'tracert 8.8.8.8' then you'll see every hop till it gets to the google DNS server. Within your own home the ip address will be something with 192.168.x.x. The beyond that, your on the web. The names you see will give you an idea of the route you are taking to get to Google. If you do a tracert with a name (tracert www.google.com), it will first do the name translation to give you the ip address. If it can do that, then you know its reaching the DNS server.

BTW the service tech will do more than check the drop and he should have some DSL test equipment, Time Domain Reflectometer and other cable impairment test equipment. Level 2 tech support should also be able to run diagnostics to the modem remotely.


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## cainvest

e86s54 said:


> Once the loop is disconnected (coil pulled in the central office), the pair is dead and so you will not have any service including 911


I have voltage on the line so that's a good sign ... still need to find an old extension box to connect up an old phone for testing.


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## e86s54

If you do have dialtone, I would suspect it won't be for long. With most COs unmanned, it can take a bit before work order gets completed. I also believe that the associated number will be taken out of the number pool from the control center and so making calls may be impossible anyway.


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## cainvest

e86s54 said:


> If you do have dialtone, I would suspect it won't be for long. With most COs unmanned, it can take a bit before work order gets completed. I also believe that the associated number will be taken out of the number pool from the control center and so making calls may be impossible anyway.


IIRC it's been about two years since I switched, taking my phone number with me, so I doubt they are that slow .... but maybe. 
Could be they just leave it in case I switch back, like you said, without a number assigned it's not useful except the slight chance of having 911 access which I can't really test anyways.


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## protomok

My Own Advisor said:


> Thanks livewell. Looking at using an indoor OTA in the future. Rogers is getting too expensive for my liking.


Yup, with a good quality antenna like a DB-4e or CM4228 there should be no problem getting the 10 local English stations. And for those of south of the Queensway there is a good chance of getting PBS (3 more channels and you get Nightly Business Report  ) or potentially even Fox and CBS from upstate NY. I just stuck our antenna in the attic and got all the 10 local English channels first try, US channels took a bit more work tho.

The thing that bothered me with Rogers was the _increasing_ prices. Every year the price go up...typically $3 or $6/month increases. Eventually I cut the cord and will never go back  Although I'll happy own a telco and collect dividends courtesy of my neighbors


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## doctrine

Where did you get your antenna, protomok? Any suggestions? If I can get some OTA tv, I'm likely going to get a Tablo TV to go with it.


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## protomok

I got mine at a local store but there's lots of options online, here's a couple examples:

http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/Antennas_Direct_DB4e.asp
http://www.amazon.ca/Antennas-Direc...?ie=UTF8&qid=1404351847&sr=8-1&keywords=db+4e

I have the DB4e and have been really happy with it.

It's not for everyone, but man it saves so much money


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## My Own Advisor

"Eventually I cut the cord and will never go back Although I'll happy own a telco and collect dividends courtesy of my neighbors"



Well, I will definitely consider a DB-4e like you said. I don't mind Rogers now with live sports, HBO, etc., but I'm getting close to my breaking point with the cable fees. 

I already use Fongo for my home phone (VOIP) and I negotiated what I think was a good internet deal with Rogers for the next 2 years so I'm not changing that service at this time. It's just the Rogers cable that's a cash drain....I just wish there was an internet alterative for live sports.

Thanks for the info fellow Ottawan!


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## e86s54

cainvest said:


> IIRC it's been about two years since I switched, taking my phone number with me, so I doubt they are that slow .... but maybe.
> Could be they just leave it in case I switch back, like you said, without a number assigned it's not useful except the slight chance of having 911 access which I can't really test anyways.


What may eventually happen is that the pair you are using, as part of a bundle in a larger cable along the way, will be need and taken, thus disconnecting you from the switch. But as you mentioned, just because you have -48V, doesn't mean you have service.

The two years likely is a reflection of the net subscriber purge Bell is experiencing with everyone going to VoIP, They're just bleeding subs to the point now that Bell Mobility has more subs than the wireline side!


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## livewell

doctrine said:


> Where did you get your antenna, protomok? Any suggestions? If I can get some OTA tv, I'm likely going to get a Tablo TV to go with it.


 FWIW I built a homemade antenna as per this site http://www.diytvantennas.com/sbgh.php Cost me less than $10 in parts and really dead simple to make. Its a Gray-Hoverman, and I did a bit of research and discovered for HD TV it is more efficient than commercial antenna designs. Works fine for an Attic install. For an outdoor antenna I would need a more robust construction.


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## cainvest

livewell said:


> FWIW I built a homemade antenna as per this site http://www.diytvantennas.com/sbgh.php Cost me less than $10 in parts and really dead simple to make. Its a Gray-Hoverman, and I did a bit of research and discovered for HD TV it is more efficient than commercial antenna designs. Works fine for an Attic install. For an outdoor antenna I would need a more robust construction.


I did the same but built three antennas to try out, a simple dipole, 2 bay bowtie and 23" loop. I have some farther away VHF-Hi channels, the 23" loop works best and the UHF here can be easily picked up with just a small piece of copper wire.


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## cainvest

cainvest said:


> We had a power outage for 6 hours yesterday and I'm on shaw phone (kind of like voip) so having a cell phone is a must if want to stay connected. Even with UPS/backup power, shaw phone/internet is down when the area is without power so keep that in mind. I do wonder if DSL stays active in a power outage, in theory it should providing you have backup power at home.


Had another power outage tonight due to a fairly close lightning stike, both shaw phone and internet were working this time. Guess it all depends on which lines are affected but the blockout area was fairly large, much like last time. Guess I'll beef up my UPS system a bit, might have some additional use after all, nice to have internet working when severe weather is around.


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