# Schedule 3 Question



## R.A. (Feb 25, 2017)

Schedule 3 question:

My brokerage managed to sell a couple of worthless/near worthless stocks for me for zero proceeds and I have official sales for both. 

They told me that they don't issue a T-5008 for zero proceeds stock sales. Both of the trades do show up on my trading summary. I'm not sure if CRA gets a copy of the trading summary or just the T-5008 - can anyone answer that?

Question: If a T-5008 is not generated by a brokerage for a stock sale, in this case for the above reason, does CRA still want to see these sales? I know common sense says they probably couldn't care less but to keep to the letter of the law for schedule 3 purposes, are those still reportable sales regardless of their zero proceeds? 

Anyway, anyone with any expertise that would care to share your opinion, much appreciated! Thanks!


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

R.A. said:


> Schedule 3 question:
> 
> My brokerage managed to sell a couple of worthless/near worthless stocks for me for zero proceeds and I have official sales for both.
> 
> ...


You want them to be reportable because you can claim the capital loss. I have to think they are reportable; after all, you did lose that money. Just keep the trading summary as proof in case you get questioned about it.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

R.A. said:


> Schedule 3 question:
> 
> My brokerage managed to sell a couple of worthless/near worthless stocks for me for zero proceeds and I have official sales for both.
> 
> They told me that they don't issue a T-5008 for zero proceeds stock sales. Both of the trades do show up on my trading summary. I'm not sure if CRA gets a copy of the trading summary or just the T-5008 - can anyone answer that?


No idea ... but I have reported delisted stocks that still show up on monthly brokerage account reports as being sold for a capital loss. So far, there have been no questions from CRA, who left my loss numbers as-is.

As long as you have the annual trading summary, in a nice backed up way (i.e. paper plus electronic, multiple copies electronically) so that if CRA asks, you can show it to them. You should be fine.


BTW ... up until this year, the annual trading summary that listed buys/sells for each stock through the year used to have in the upper hand corner a note identifying it as a "T5008" form. Other posters have indicated that this year, I will get the annual trading summary with no "T5008" identifier and a separate T5008 slip. I plan to fill out Schedule 3, part 3 from my tracking spreadsheet and use whatever T5008 form for independent verification ... just like any other year.


Cheers


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> ...BTW ... up until this year, the annual trading summary that listed buys/sells for each stock through the year used to have in the upper hand corner a note identifying it as a "T5008" form. Other posters have indicated that this year, I will get the annual trading summary with no "T5008" identifier and a separate T5008 slip. I plan to fill out Schedule 3, part 3 from my tracking spreadsheet and use whatever T5008 form for independent verification ... just like any other year. Cheers


I suppose format may differ depending on issuer. From TDDI, my 2015 _ T5008 Trading Summary_ listed buys & sells and didn't seem to bear much resemblance to a T5008:

View attachment 14169


For 2016 it is called a _T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions_. It contains only sell transaction and identfies the columns consistant with T5008 tax slip box numbers. Cost or Book Value is blank in all cases:

View attachment 14161


As issuers provide more granular capital activity (buy/sell data) to the CRA it will become easier for them to identify errors and omissions.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I suppose format may differ depending on issuer.
> 
> From TDDI, my 2015 _ T5008 Trading Summary_ listed buys & sells and didn't seem to bear much resemblance to a T5008 ...
> For 2016 it is called a _T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions_. It contains only sell transaction and identfies the columns consistant with T5008 tax slip box numbers. Cost or Book Value is blank in all cases.


It may be moving towards the same thing across brokers.

The first I'd heard of the form version of a T5008 was a couple of years ago when a poster using a smaller broker (Questrade?) said they were getting the "T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions". The sample PDF on CRA's web site made it clear that it was completely different from "Trading Summary", which was all I was receiving.


Based on a post trying to figure out why the "T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions" listed a gain where the poster's ACB numbers said a loss, I'm sticking to my spreadsheet, with the T5008 as confirmation and/or a trigger to investigate where it does not match.

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...c-proceeds-amp-cost-are-incorrect-on-my-t5008




OnlyMyOpinion said:


> As issuers provide more granular capital activity (buy/sell data) to the CRA it will become easier for them to identify errors and omissions.


Is it more granular?

I'd have thought the T5008 Annual Summary was being transmitted in the past. It would seem more granular to me than the "T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions" that appears to rollup the info to be less granular.


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't think anything has changed with respect to FI submission of data to CRA. T5008 data always went there. What seems to be changing is how data is provided to the investor. I've always received Annual Trading Summaries from Scotia iTrade and BMO Investorline. I do recall T5008 showing up occasionally at the top of the paperwork at Scotia iTrade but not consistently. In any event, I believe the data that shows up on the Annual Trading Summary gets submitted to CRA. I really should check MyAccount to see if that data matches my Annual Trading Summaries.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Could be ... though as I say, the Annual version is far more complete as well as granular from what I can see.

The form version aka "T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions" is strictly the sells from the annual version but it has added a code for type of investment (ex. shares, MF units etc.) while also dropping the per share price as well as the commission paid. It also dropped the "buy" or "sell" code but at it is all sells, I don't think that is relevant. 

The cost column is blank.


Cheers


*PS*

As I say, I start with my tracking spreadsheet then use the annual trading summary and now have the T5008 "statement of [Sell] transactions" as verification. I'd rather have two sources independently confirm the numbers instead of not catching an issue by using provided numbers.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Eclectic and AltaRed you are both correct. 
Really, my experience is that TDDI is providing more detail to the account holder with their T5008 changes, not the CRA.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

^^^^

You'll have to give me some examples of what this "more detail" that you are seeing in this two document format.

When I compare the two PDFs (i.e. annual trading summary and the "T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions", the only *added info ??!!* info is whether the sold investment was shares or MF units. :wink:


From the checking I have done so far, a separate "sell transaction" form is what's new. In terms of "more detail", I have yet to find anything worthwhile (unless a "sell only" document is critical to some :biggrin: ).


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Eclectic and AltaRed you are both correct.
> Really, my experience is that TDDI is providing more detail to the account holder with their T5008 changes, not the CRA.


I just checked the T5008 info on the CRA site for my BMO Investorline trades. It simply provides the name of the security sold, the type, date of disposition and net proceeds (net of sales commission) and is rounded off to even dollars. It does not list any Buys nor the Cost Basis. I agree that my Annual Trading Summary provides a bit more information.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Ok, here we go. Hopefully the OP doesn't mind the digression... But it does start with the Schedule 3, which is what I've been familiar with and so have tracked all of our investments (and ACB) for years to be able to correctly complete by using 'source' documents - our buy/sell confirmation statements along with monthly statements of drip/roc, etc. amounts.

I'll come clean and admit that while I referred to the multi-page investment income summary and trading summary statements provided by TDDI each year to make sure our records were consistant, I never paid attention to the fact that the trading summary statement was also labeled "T5008/RL18".

So it was only last year while having to complete & submit our tax returns while out of province, away from my usual records, that I realized the CRA (MyAccount) had a separate T5008 'slip' on file for each of the security sales we had made in 2015, complete with T-slip type 'boxes' identifying each field - nearly 30 of these T5008's (60 pages) on the CRA site! (they are actually in a 'page' format not a conventional 'T-slip' format)

There is one T5008 slip for each sell transaction found on the Statement that TDDI sent me. In addition to the security name, quantity sold, date and $ proceeds that are found on TDDI's old format Statement, the slip that the CRA has on record includes boxes with currency, security type, ISIN/CUSIP code.

I have never received this level of information from my TDDI documents. This year their new renamed and reformatted Statement goes part way to matching the data I find in MyAccount by identifying 'boxes' and adding security type code (see images in post #4 of this thread). And I never realized until last year that the securities information was being submitted to the CRA by TDDI in a more complete, 'data-entry' format that the CRA is presumably capturing in their database.

I don't know whether other FI's have been providing more complete information to their account holders over the years, I can only speak to my experience with TDDI.

This is why I had mentioned elsewhere that I now consider it a necessary step before completing our tax returns, to download the data from MyAccount and ensure it is the same as I have from TDDI and in my own records.


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## R.A. (Feb 25, 2017)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Ok, here we go. Hopefully the OP doesn't mind the digression... But it does start with the Schedule 3, which is what I've been familiar with and so have tracked all of our investments (and ACB) for years to be able to correctly complete by using 'source' documents - our buy/sell confirmation statements along with monthly statements of drip/roc, etc. amounts.
> 
> I'll come clean and admit that while I referred to the multi-page investment income summary and trading summary statements provided by TDDI each year to make sure our records were consistant, I never paid attention to the fact that the trading summary statement was also labeled "T5008/RL18".
> 
> ...


Interesting stuff, and thanks everyone for their thoughts on this subject, it's been very enlightening. It makes sense that regardless of the nil proceeds of the sales, they should be reported in Schedule 3 even if (due to nil proceeds) they don't generate a T-5008 (the new one) and CRA apparently won't have any brokerage-provided info on the sales. I guess I should just be prepared with my trading summary (the new standalone TS that, while it shows the SIN # doesn't give any other indication that it is a doc sent to CRA) that does show the sales with nil proceeds, in case they have any questions. Thanks again everyone!


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> I just checked the T5008 info on the CRA site for my BMO Investorline trades. It simply provides the name of the security sold, the type, date of disposition and net proceeds (net of sales commission) and is rounded off to even dollars. It does not list any Buys nor the Cost Basis. I agree that my Annual Trading Summary provides a bit more information.


Interesting. I went and looked at what CRA had on My Account and none of the tax slips that TDDI has in my on-line documents folder are there (yet you say yours are there). 

TDDI e-documents has a T5 Investment Income Slip, a T5008 slip , a Trading Summary, and an Investment Income Summary. 
Also by now, TDDI usually mails the T5 for HISA-TDB8150 (but I've not received it).

CRA has my T4A Pension, T4A(P), T4A(OAS), plus the T5 for HISA-TDB8150 (which TDDI hasn't mailed me yet). 
CRA does not have the T5 Investment Income Slip, T5008 slip , Trading Summary, or Investment Income Summary that TDDI has shown for many weeks.

Weird. These on-line documents haven't made it easier, just more time consuming by having to double check a number of different site and scratch your head about what's going on. 

I use to get them all by mail and when I had them I started my tax return. Seemed easier.

ltr


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Ok, here we go. Hopefully the OP doesn't mind the digression...


I am hoping so as well ...




OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ... I realized the CRA (MyAccount) had a separate T5008 'slip' on file for each of the security sales we had made in 2015, complete with T-slip type 'boxes' identifying each field - nearly 30 of these T5008's (60 pages) on the CRA site! ... There is one T5008 slip for each sell transaction found on the Statement that TDDI sent me. In addition to the security name, quantity sold, date and $ proceeds that are found on TDDI's old format Statement, the slip that the CRA has on record includes boxes with currency, security type, ISIN/CUSIP code.


I can see where the CUSIP etc. are extra. I didn't bother with the autofill so I may have similar on CRA's web site.




OnlyMyOpinion said:


> ...I have never received this level of information from my TDDI documents until this year with their new renamed and reformatted Statement (see images in post #4 of this thread).


This is where I am scratching my head.

I did look at post #4 as well as what I've received this year, where the additional piece is the box like, T5008. It does not have any of the new info like CUSIP, just the annual summary style of "date", "quantity" and "proceeds". 

Maybe it's because it's the first run but for now, the sole "new" thing that is not on the annual summary is the "SHS" or "MFS" code to identify shares or mutual fund units. 



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

R.A. said:


> Interesting stuff, and thanks everyone for their thoughts on this subject, it's been very enlightening ...


Hopefully our exploration of the new T5008 form as well as what's on my Account didn't distract you. :biggrin:




R.A. said:


> ... It makes sense that regardless of the nil proceeds of the sales, they should be reported in Schedule 3 even if (due to nil proceeds) they don't generate a T-5008 (the new one) ...


The point of the process was to get it reported/documented. So the only puzzle here for me is why the broker wouldn't churn out a T5008 entry, regardless of format. You'd think it would be more expensive for the brokerage to be filtering out the info versus automatically processing it.


BTW, in case it ever makes more sense to just manually record the loss without bothering with the broker, here is the tax tips link about it.
http://www.taxtips.ca/stocksandbonds/worthless-shares-or-debt.htm

The only down side I have seen to going this route is that the worthless shares keep being listed in the monthly summaries but I can handle that.


Cheers


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> ... This is where I am scratching my hear.
> I did look at post #4 as well as what I've received this year, where the additional piece is the box like, T5008. It does not have any of the new info like CUSIP, just the annual summary style of "date", "quantity" and "proceeds".
> Cheers


I've edited my earlier post to read, _This year their new renamed and reformatted Statement goes part way to matching the data I find in MyAccount by identifying 'boxes' and adding security type code_


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