# Cholesterol and atorvastatin



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I understand that this is non-medical forum , but still would like to ask CMF members... 
I'm taking atorvastatin (lipitor) for 7-8 years, lately my family doctor couple of times increased the dose ... I started to have some minor side effects (pain in muscles)... So, I several time ago I did research and found out that there are tons of very serious side effects from atorvastatin... several articles stated that better to have high cholesterol that take atorvastatin... some researches stated that 99 out of 100 people who takes it, don't really need it, that there is a lot of scum going on by big pharma companies like PFE... 
Was curious, if anybody has high cholesterol and what he/she is doing about it?


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

There are studies and papers questioning the true efficacy of Lipitor and other statins, while the range of side effects are pretty well-documented. Personally, I think that increasing strenuous exercise, cutting stress, taking anti-oxidants, and modifying diet to a more lean protein/raw veg type (what is termed as a 'paleolithic' diet for those who need to name a trend) could be an answer for some. Some cholesterol production is a stress response- your body produces it as a master anti-oxidant as a protective measure. If you haven't already, I would suggest doing some reading from the library as there are a lot of great science-based books around. I can recommend 'Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers' by Robert Sapolsky, a Stanford professor and likely the world's foremost authority on stress-related diseases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Zebras_Don't_Get_Ulcers

I also really like 'The Palaeolithic Prescription' by Boyd Eaton. From personal experience I found that changing my diet and increasing my exercise, thereby dropping significant weight, took me out of the range of 'needing' statins. Of course, I am not a physician however my GP was surprised at how my numbers came down. I have no idea how active you might be, but my personal belief is that we are designed and evolved to be extremely active creatures- up until extremely recently (on the evolutionary scale...) we were running after prey, hauling water, building shelter, etc etc most of the day. Replicating that through exercise seems to me a reasonable idea.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Statin's (lipitor, crestor, etc) can cause some serious side effects and you need to weight in on that with your doctor. The best thing to do is educate yourself, know your cholesterol scores and what they mean to you. If you've had other complications leading up to you taking a statin (heart attack, stent, etc) these may change your risk factors. Cholesterol is only one of many risk factors to one's health ... weight, exercise and eating proper foods can play a big role.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Statin's (lipitor, crestor, etc) can cause some serious side effects and you need to weight in on that with your doctor. The best thing to do is educate yourself, know your cholesterol scores and what they mean to you. If you've had other complications leading up to you taking a statin (heart attack, stent, etc) these may change your risk factors. Cholesterol is only one of many risk factors to one's health ... weight, exercise and eating proper foods can play a big role.


Agreed- and there are other markers more indicative of risk than high cholesterol.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

indexxx said:


> Agreed- and there are other markers more indicative of risk than high cholesterol.


Yes, there are many factors one can take into account.

In general, and what I tell people in high(er) risk situations, is to start off simple ... follow the Canada food guide and get your BMI in the normal range. 
Two key points on following the guide are,
- eliminate/reduce intake of processed foods (side benefit of much lower sodium intake).
- get to their "active" level of exercise.

I know BMI is a gross approximation but I think it's generally good enough to get people started, especially if one is well over their normal BMI range.

As always, discuss with your doctor if you plan diet/exercise changes and that your goal is to eliminate the need to take certain drugs, if possible.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Or look at moving on to the next gen drugs; PCSK9 inhibitors. Approved in US last year

Only 15% of your cholesterol is attributed to diet, the rest is genetics and it appears a genetic switch in the liver goes off and hinders absorption in the liver. This drug restores that function.

Also evidence statins lead to dementia.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am pretty much the same as you Gibor.

I take a statin, blood thinner and a prescription to control atrial fibrillation. Been taking them for 10 years now.

Sore muscles seems to be a side affect, but I don't know what the alternatives are.

My doctor says diet doesn't have much to do with cholesterol levels, and I am going to a cardiologist to review all the medications as she said they have better drugs available now.

Eat eggs..........don't eat eggs.........eat as many eggs as you like.

Stents are good.........stents are bad.

The truth is that they just don't know everything.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> PCSK9 inhibitors


 Praluent and Repatha are second line treatment (so in addition to Lipitor) and also have bunch of side effects...

I've read good reviews about Kyolic aged garlic, so did experiment  , for 2.5 months stopped taking statins and was taking this Kyolic, and ... Cholesterol/HDL-Ratio significantly increased...



> Only 15% of your cholesterol is attributed to diet, the rest is genetics


 True! Even less is attributed to physical activities (from my own experience)...

Family doctor doesn't want to discuss other options except atorvastatin 
So, there is a big dilemma : high cholesterol or big side effects


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## Karlhungus (Oct 4, 2013)

Cholesterol is very misunderstood. You need it to survive. Cell membrane is made up of cholesterol and it is used for brain function. If you do not get enough of it through diet, your body (liver) will produce more of it for your needs. So what about plague build up you say? Only one type of cholesterol can be harmful, small dense LDL. This builds up in your artery walls due to oxidation from sugar or carbs. More info here, http://eatingacademy.com/

DO NOT follow the canada food guide. It is very outdated and has partly led to the obesity epidemic we now see. I started a high fat, low carb diet and all my blood sugar numbers improved. Triglycerides went down, HDL went up, LDL went down. Blood sugar went down. And i lost 30 pounds. My father, who was pre-diabetic, did the same diet, lost 40 pounds. Without any exercise. He went from a pre diabetic state to non diabetic. No statins. 

If I were you, I would try a high fat, low carb diet for a month just to see what happens with regular visits to your doctor. My guess is that your statin dose will go lower and lower because your cholesterol numbers will improve so much.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I would try a high fat, low carb diet for a month


 Could you please expand on this diet?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

OK, found a link to this diet
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

It's becoming funny already, this diet is complete opposite of "usual" cholesterol reducing diet 

GP, told me that eggs and seafood are the biggest cholesterol "enemies", and as per LCHF it's all opposite


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

I do notice from my pharmacist work statin, use has declined.
Many patients complain of side effects and they are pricey drugs!


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## Karlhungus (Oct 4, 2013)

gibor said:


> OK, found a link to this diet
> http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
> 
> It's becoming funny already, this diet is complete opposite of "usual" cholesterol reducing diet
> ...


Yes it is kind of opposite of what we've been told. However, I would ask, has what we've been told working? If I a GP told you eggs were a cholesterol enemy I would switch GP's, that information is 50 years old. Its stuff from the '70's. I ate a low fat diet for most of my life thinking it was what I should do. Every year I would gain a little weight even though I was active. I was also always hungry. This never sat right with me. A typical day would be; some sort of granola breakfast cereal for breakfast, then an hour or so later being so hungry I could barely take it. Eat a granola bar or something. Sandwhich for lunch. Then at about 3 oclock in the afternoon, crashing hard and being so tired I could sleep anywhere. Regular dinner then be hungry again before bed. What was happening was a blood sugar roller coaster all day. Ive now switched to bacon eggs and cheese for breakfast. Not hungry at all for the rest of the day, skip lunch. Eat dinner. Sometimes even forget to have dinner because im still not hungry. Dinner usually consists of some type of meat, and vegetables. If I have pasta it is made with spaghetti squash. I feel much much better eating this way and all my health numbers improved. When i eat yogurt, its the fattest kind I can find. (when products are low fat, the fat is replaced with bad stuff). Coffee has 35% cream in it. etc. etc. I can tell you more if you're interested. 

Theres a movie on youtube is called FATHEAD. I recommend it. Not the best production value as it is very low budget, as the guy can be a little annoying but the premise of the movie is the guy eats only mcdonald's for a month and loses 12 pounds and his health numbers all improve. Why? he eats high fat and low carb at mcdonalds. 

I would also highly recommend the book, "why we get fat" by Gary Taubes. Very interesting.


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## indexxx (Oct 31, 2011)

Karlhungus said:


> Yes it is kind of opposite of what we've been told. However, I would ask, has what we've been told working? If I a GP told you eggs were a cholesterol enemy I would switch GP's, that information is 50 years old. Its stuff from the '70's. I ate a low fat diet for most of my life thinking it was what I should do. Every year I would gain a little weight even though I was active. I was also always hungry. This never sat right with me. A typical day would be; some sort of granola breakfast cereal for breakfast, then an hour or so later being so hungry I could barely take it. Eat a granola bar or something. Sandwhich for lunch. Then at about 3 oclock in the afternoon, crashing hard and being so tired I could sleep anywhere. Regular dinner then be hungry again before bed. What was happening was a blood sugar roller coaster all day. Ive now switched to bacon eggs and cheese for breakfast. Not hungry at all for the rest of the day, skip lunch. Eat dinner. Sometimes even forget to have dinner because im still not hungry. Dinner usually consists of some type of meat, and vegetables. If I have pasta it is made with spaghetti squash. I feel much much better eating this way and all my health numbers improved. When i eat yogurt, its the fattest kind I can find. (when products are low fat, the fat is replaced with bad stuff). Coffee has 35% cream in it. etc. etc. I can tell you more if you're interested.
> 
> Theres a movie on youtube is called FATHEAD. I recommend it. Not the best production value as it is very low budget, as the guy can be a little annoying but the premise of the movie is the guy eats only mcdonald's for a month and loses 12 pounds and his health numbers all improve. Why? he eats high fat and low carb at mcdonalds.
> 
> I would also highly recommend the book, "why we get fat" by Gary Taubes. Very interesting.


Yes, essentially the Paleo way of eating.


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

The causes of chronic disease are rooted in what we eat, how much we move, how we face stress, how connected we are to our communities and toxic chemicals and metals in our environment.

I'm not much know about how-to-get-off-medications-safely.
If you can find the forum or blogs who has a similar condition and their experience would be a great information to follow. 

You can start anytime to improve your life style toward better. (no bad side effects involve)
Drinking clean water, eat quality food and less junks, look after the digestion systems, exercise, meditation for ease the stress + sunshine (for vitamin D & serotonin ) etc... will improve the health.


-How To Get Off Medications Safely
http://drjohnday.com/how-to-get-off-medications-safely/

The real goal in how to get off medications safely is to change how we view medications in the first place. *Anytime your doctor wants to prescribe a new medication, get him or her to clearly spell out what needs to happen in order for you to safely get off of this medication. *View any medication as just a temporary “crutch,” until you can reverse your underlying medical condition.
Of course, you must never stop a medication on your own. *Stopping a medicine or reducing a medication on your own could have*life-threatening consequences. *Rather, work closely with your physician in helping you to live a healthy enough lifestyle so that medications will no longer be necessary.
If your physician does not believe you can completely turn your life around or that chronic medical conditions can’t be reversed with dramatic lifestyle changes, then look for another physician.


-Hidden costs make low quality food more expensive
http://diginn.com/blog/high-quality-food-cost-less/

Over the long-term, consuming lower quality food has a massive negative impact on our health, leading to diseases like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and even cancer. *And these diseases obviously come with higher healthcare expenses and a lower quality of life.

So this is why we think it’s actually cheaper to purchase high quality food – you may be paying more upfront, but over the long haul, you will experience a much higher quality of life and spend a lot less on healthcare (either directly or indirectly through taxes).


-How We Define "Quality Food"
http://diginn.com/blog/define-quality-food-dig-inn/


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## s123 (May 3, 2015)

Additional info 
It's takes time to detox. It should be aware of experienced some detox symptoms that included headaches, low energy, and strange bowel movements but it’s not permanent.
After move through detox, then start feeling right, good and energized.
Surely I've noticed the improvement of my health with decreasing junk food over the course of time. 

p.s. We need organic, non GMO with products of *Canada*.
--

- What your gut’s telling you: why your digestion holds the key to your health
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...r-digestion-holds-the-key-to-your-health.html

A possible explanation is the fact that the gut is home to some of our key chemicals – 90 to 95 per cent of our serotonin lies in the gut. (The brain has just two to three per cent.) 'Serotonin is the chemical that’s involved with happiness, sex, sleeping, feeding – just about everything that makes life worthwhile,’ says Gershon. 'So if something in your gut is troubling you, you have to wonder what else it’s doing.’ Could it be making you depressed? Forgetful? Lose sleep? 

At present, the thought we give to our eating habits tends to be the effect they have on weight, blood pressure, blood sugar levels, cholesterol… But what about the effect on the gut itself? Can it really be good to starve it for a week then feed it nothing but cabbage soup? What does your gut instinct tell you? 
'Eat a healthy, well-balanced diet,’ advises Gershon. 'Green vegetables and lots of good fibre are positives.’ More than ever, we should listen to our guts. If something disagrees with it, heed the message. Your whole wellbeing may depend on it. 


-Improve Your Digestive Health in Just One Week With These Eating Tips!
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natur...alth-in-just-one-week-with-these-eating-tips/


- What Happens to Your Brain When You Eat Junk Food (And Why We Crave It)
http://jamesclear.com/junk-food-science

Most of us know that junk food is unhealthy. We know that poor nutrition is related to heart problems, high blood pressure, and a host of other health ailments. You might even know that studies show that eating junk food has been linked to increases in depression.


The second factor is the actual macronutrient makeup of the food — the blend of proteins, fats, and carbohydrates that it contains. In the case of junk food, food manufacturers are looking for a perfect combination of salt, sugar, and fat that excites your brain and gets you coming back for more.

The good news is that the research shows that the less junk food you eat, the less you crave it.

Whatever you want to call it, the lesson is the same: if you can find ways to gradually eat healthier, you’ll start to experience the cravings of junk food less and less. 


-Hacking Into Your Happy Chemicals: Dopamine, Serotonin, Endorphins and Oxytocin
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thai-nguyen/hacking-into-your-happy-c_b_6007660.html


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

Following a heart attack ten years ago stress induced one of the drugs I was put on Simvastatin even though my cholesterol has always been lower than the average person.
My specialist was kind of back and forth on it but in the end decided that I should take it because the medical profession recommend it and he should go with general practice.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Eat eggs..........don't eat eggs.........eat as many eggs as you like.
> 
> Stents are good.........stents are bad.
> 
> The truth is that they just don't know everything.


The truth is that they just don't know what each individual requires in specific medication based on their condition.

Usually dosage is based on BIG PHARMA "science",the doctors prescribe a shotgun approach and over medicate. 

My 92 yr old mother with heart/circulation problems had a big concoction of drugs that basically "whacked her out" at the recommended daily dosage.
My middle brother who lives with her, finally trimmed the dosages down where she could still carry on a somewhat normal lifestyle.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> OK, found a link to this diet
> http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
> 
> It's becoming funny already, this diet is complete opposite of "usual" cholesterol reducing diet
> ...


Gibor, You do know that there is two kinds of cholesterol...good and bad.

The Japanese eat a lot of seafood and they one of the healthiest people on the planet....Americans eating fastfood
"fat burgers"..besides obesity clog up their arteries and Big Pharma profits off their bad habits. I saw a episode
of a 500lb woman with huge fat sacks everywhere eating pork roast and German chocolate cake...she won't
be around too much longer...as she won't change her overindulgence excesses with no excercsie to work off the
plaque in her blood. 


> LDL (Bad) Cholesterol
> 
> LDL cholesterol is considered the “bad” cholesterol because it contributes to plaque, a thick, hard deposit that can clog arteries and make them less flexible. This condition is known as atherosclerosis. If a clot forms and blocks a narrowed artery, heart attack or stroke can result. Another condition called peripheral artery disease can develop when plaque buildup narrows an artery supplying blood to the legs.
> 
> ...





> Triglycerides
> 
> Triglycerides are another type of fat, and they’re used to store excess energy from your diet. High levels of triglycerides in the blood are associated with atherosclerosis. Elevated triglycerides can be caused by overweight and obesity, physical inactivity, cigarette smoking, excess alcohol consumption and a diet very high in carbohydrates (more than 60 percent of total calories). Underlying diseases or genetic disorders are sometimes the cause of high triglycerides. People with high triglycerides often have a high total cholesterol level, including a high LDL cholesterol (bad) level and a low HDL cholesterol (good) level. Many people with heart disease or diabetes also have high triglyceride levels.


So it's not as simple as just avoiding eggs..there are other food groups that can affect the LDL/HDL balance in your blood.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Daniel A. said:


> Following a heart attack ten years ago stress induced one of the drugs I was put on Simvastatin even though my cholesterol has always been lower than the average person.
> My specialist was kind of back and forth on it but in the end decided that I should take it because the medical profession recommend it and he should go with general practice.


Kickbacks from Big Pharma probably.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

One thing you should understand is that science is an evolving process, and medical advice often lags what you can find on the internet for good reason: medical advice isn't normally based on emerging science but on a firmer foundation of established knowledge (established through many years' worth of studies, meta-analyses, etc.). New findings emerge every day, but that doesn't mean you should ignore your doctor's advice and jump on whatever new findings appear on the internet. Those new findings could easily turn out to be wrong or might not apply to you. And going your own way without consulting your doctor exposes you to risks because your doctor should have a better sense of the overall context: the other medications you might be taking, your exercise and diet, risky habits such as smoking, etc.

New investment strategies come out every few months as well, promising to beat the market. Do you abandon your existing approach for every new investment strategy that comes along? Probably not. More likely you stick with the tried and true while you wait to see how those new strategies actually pan out in real life. Same goes for medical advice and new findings.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Gibor, You do know that there is two kinds of cholesterol...good and bad.
> 
> The Japanese eat a lot of seafood and they one of the healthiest people on the planet....Americans eating fastfood
> "fat burgers"


Sure , I know it  . Just traditional diet (and if you google , majority of health related websites) will tell that is necessary to consume LOW-FAT products, and LCHF diet telling to consume only HIGH-FAT products 

I wouldn't compare us to Japanese (even though I understand that God created all of us equal ) ... they may have very different health risks , hormones etc.. It's not a secret that specific races/nationalities have different health risks ..

Btw, my GP told me to take Omega-3 and Plant Sterols (just ordered it from UK - there are nothing availbale in Canada) ... was curious if anyone was taking this stuff and what dosages and if it helped?


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I'm a type 2 diabetic who has managed my diabetes for 14 years now with a very low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet (LCHF) and no medications or insulin. My blood glucose levels are perfectly normal (not good for a diabetic, but in the normal range for non diabetics. My last HbA1C, for those familiar with the term, was 5.1.) About 70% of my caloric intake is fat, including lots of saturated fats. And, although weight loss wasn't my purpose in starting this way of eating, I lost 40 pounds within a few months of starting it. My cholesterol levels were never bad, but they dropped significantly when I started eating this way. My endocrinologist tried to put me on a statin drug a few years ago because he said that all diabetics should be on statin drugs. I told him not to waste his time writing the prescription because, not only would I not be filling it, but that under no circumstances would I ever take a statin drug. I have done a fair bit of research on the subject, and I believe that statin drugs do more harm than high cholesterol does. Needless to say, the endo wasn't very pleased with me, but the feeling was mutual.

This was the same endo who told me that I wasn't a diabetic any more when I asked him for a prescription for glucometer test strips. I expressed my shock at that statement, and he said, "Well, how can you say you're diabetic when you've had perfectly normal blood sugars for over ten years." I said, "Because if I were to eat a high-carb meal, my blood sugar would be as high as any of your diabetic patients. He said, "Well perhaps I should say your diabetes is in remission" and I said, "No, you should have said it's well-managed." He didn't answer; I told my family doctor not to ever refer me to this endo again.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

IMHO your better off eating whole foods high in essential fatty acids, plant based sterols, soluble fiber, etc. Beans, peas, oats, certain nuts, ground flax, certain fish, many fruits and vegetables, etc. Skip the supplements and save yourself a lot of money. If you do decide on the supplement route make sure you buy from a quality manufacturer (rancidity issues, heavy metals, etc). Same goes for whole foods - fats can be rancid, full of heavy metals, PCB's, etc. 

Most people can lower their cholesterol down to acceptable levels through diet and lifestyle alone, but they don't so they end up on a concoction of dietary supplements and / or prescription medication. Multi billion dollar industries! If you have Familial Hypercholesterolemia you got some work ahead of you if you plan on trying to lower your levels "naturally" (diet, exercise, etc.). Some success for patients on strict vegetarian diets, but that may not be realistic for many.

The Framington Heart Study, Lyon Diet Heart Study - Mediterranean Diet and more recently one of the studies done by Dr. David Jenkins may be of interest. 

It's been a while but the general consensus in the literature was around 1500 mg essential fatty acids per day - food / supplement combined? Your GP who recommended the products should be up on the latest research and provided dosage recommendations, no?? I'm also pretty sure that bottled plant sterols are readily available in Canada and US.

Nutrition and nutritional supplementation is one crazy industry, good luck :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> Sure , I know it  . Just traditional diet (and if you google , majority of health related websites) will tell that is necessary to consume LOW-FAT products, and LCHF diet telling to consume only HIGH-FAT products
> 
> I wouldn't compare us to Japanese (even though I understand that God created all of us equal ) ... they may have very different health risks , hormones etc.. It's not a secret that specific races/nationalities have different health risks ..
> 
> Btw, my GP told me to take Omega-3 and Plant Sterols (just ordered it from UK - there are nothing availbale in Canada) ... was curious if anyone was taking this stuff and what dosages and if it helped?


You can get Omega 3 fatty acid capsules from WELL.CA . That 's where I get mine. BTW, Krill oil is much more potent than fish oils .


Eastern European diet is best..some Russian/Ukrainian Borscht, a good dill pickle, some garlic and good Jewish rye bread;
Eat that on a regular daily diet and you can be cholesterol healthy. Throw those statins in the garbage..they will upset your system, and possibly an early demise...thanks to Big Pharma that want to make a big profit off you.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Gotta luv a fresh bowl of a Borscht and a side plate of homemade perogies! Combined with a lot of hard work.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

r-Good for you Karen. Most of these specilists have their heads up their butts any way.

How are you doing these days?

Carverman/"tinman"...tick-tock-tick-tock (pacemaker) Should be good for about 9 years, so the doctors tell me.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> You can get Omega 3 fatty acid capsules from WELL.CA . That 's where I get mine.


I just got 2 different producers of Omega 3, both are 1000mg, one tell to take 2 pills a day, other 3 

Also ordered 600 mg Plant sterols from UK.



> Eastern European diet is best..some Russian/Ukrainian Borscht, a good dill pickle, some garlic and good Jewish rye bread;


 I`m eating Borscht 5 times per week  , the best rye bread - it`s Russian style `Borodinsky`` - you can buy it in Yummy Market in GTA (they bake in the store)... Like pickles, but not sure if I should eat them as I also have high-blood pressure and salt is not the best choice for me


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

carverman said:


> r-Good for you Karen. Most of these specilists have their heads up their butts any way.
> 
> How are you doing these days?
> 
> Carverman/"tinman"...tick-tock-tick-tock (pacemaker) Should be good for about 9 years, so the doctors tell me.


I'm doing quite well, carverman. I didn't know you had a pacemaker - that's new since we were last in touch, isn't it? I think your doctor's estimate of nine years is just about right. My first one had to be replaced after eight years, and the replacement has been in for a bit longer - close to ten years - but it's going to need replacing soon.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

gibor said:


> I just got 2 different producers of Omega 3, both are 1000mg, one tell to take 2 pills a day, other 3
> 
> Also ordered 600 mg Plant sterols from UK.
> 
> I`m eating Borscht 5 times per week  , the best rye bread - it`s Russian style `Borodinsky`` - you can buy it in Yummy Market in GTA (they bake in the store)... Like pickles, but not sure if I should eat them as I also have high-blood pressure and salt is not the best choice for me


Good for you. I'm, not supposed to have ordinary salt or sugar (causes high inflammation for me), but I use Himilayan PINK SALT regularly, STEVIA for coffee, and yes, the occasional Montreal kosher pickle (Moishes), available in those big jars. These are in a salt brine with garlic and dill, available at COSTCO. 

When the jar is fresh, it takes like the pickles that my mother used to make. No vinegar..just old country know how...yum!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Karen said:


> I'm doing quite well, carverman. I didn't know you had a pacemaker - that's new since we were last in touch, isn't it? I think your doctor's estimate of nine years is just about right. My first one had to be replaced after eight years, and the replacement has been in for a bit longer - close to ten years - but it's going to need replacing soon.


I was surprised too. In February. I passed out one night from a serious bleeding ulcer, fell off my wheelchair onto the floor.
Had to call 911 for a free lift assist, but when the paramedic hooked up his portable ECG...he exclaimed.."sir did you know your heart beat is only 40? "No, I didn't..so they took me to the Ottawa Heart Institute immediately. 

Spent 10 days there for pacemaker and controlling the bleeding GI. That was a close call, but I made it to my 70th.

With my auto immune disease (Inclusion Body Myositis ongoing, I probably don't have to worry about replacing the batteries
in 9 yrs time..however, I made a "bet" with my PCF bank, that I will be around to spend the last 10K GIC when
I turn 73. I don't gamble normally, but this "bet with the bank... vs my remaining years/ days left, may be worth it.


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