# Great Water heater "upgrade" scam of 2011



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Unbelievable!!! I gave a sign in my gate that guards the entrance to my front door. 
On the sign on mY GATE...in plain english it says "PRIVATE..no soliciting of any kind!" 

This guy from 'NATIONAL HOME SERVICE" walks through the gate and rings my door bell. I open the door and see his "badge" and ask him "what do you want from me?" He replies "I'm here to check your water heater and see what "upgrades it needs"!"

This is the second guy from National H.S. that has come to my door..never mind the Rogers cable guy 
coming around trying to scam me into another "deal" with them!

I told the National "scam artist" to get off my property! He started to fire off insults at me because I was shutting the door on him!
I opened the door again and told him to get off my property or else!!! I was going to call the cops.
He left still firing off some <expletives> at me!

Dont even let these scam artists step in your door..all they want is to remove your existing water heater,
and sell one of theirs with a contract "signed in blood" for 15 years at elevated rental charges!
..some reports of them changing over your existing heater before the customary 10 days are up to get out of any contract you have signed.

THIS IS A SCAM! DON'T LET THESE SCAM ARTISTS in your door!

We have enough of these on Parliament hill already!


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Yup scammers. But calm down, you're blood pressure is high


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Uh..... you rent your water heater?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

steve41 said:


> Uh..... you rent your water heater?


Many people do, I do too.
Not because we can't buy it, but because of the maintenance/repair service.
If you buy out the equipment, you still need a contract for the maintenance and repair.
So one way or another you have to pay a monthly fee.
Unless of course you are qualified enough to fix water heaters on your own without any damage to yourself or the equipment.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

You don't fix water heaters (they break every 20 years on average ... I don't know pulled that out of my A**). But they rarely break.

Then you buy new ones.

Electric $300 (do the math), gas force vented $1000, gas non-forced about $600.

On a related note, I called the gas company about buying out the rental in my new place before I move in. It is 5 years old, they said I could have it for FREE! Don't ask you don't get. Otherwise would have been $30 a month!


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Steves: I was surprised when I moved from AB to ON. The convention in ON is to rent water heaters. ...it is a mystery.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

steve41 said:


> Uh..... you rent your water heater?


It's very common here in Ontario to rent water heaters. Almost everyone does.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> It's very common here in Ontario to rent water heaters. Almost everyone does.


Because everyone is very mis-informed and scammed into thinking there is some piece of mind. 

OMG if my tank breaks they will come replace it! Or I could venture to home depot and stuff one in my trunk for $300 (10 months rental), unscrew 2 pipes and away I go....


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

jamesbe said:


> Because everyone is very mis-informed and scammed into thinking there is some piece of mind.
> 
> OMG if my tank breaks they will come replace it! Or I could venture to home depot and stuff one in my trunk for $300 (10 months rental), unscrew 2 pipes and away I go....


Agree. We initially rented ours as well and now we just own it. It doesn't make much financial sense to rent. Our heater even broke once and we had it replaced over the weekend. Even with the extra charges, it is much cheaper to own in the long run. Yes, you might have to pay for occasional repairs but that's what an emergency fund is for.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

i have investigated several times whether to buy it out or continue to rent. or even to switch to the new tankless ones. what stopped me was the prospect of moving. the cost of the water heater is not reflected in the sale price of the home. so unless you plan to live in the same home for over 5 years, it doesnt make sense to buy.

and the last time i called direct energy (who owns my water heater), the cost was close to 1000 for my 3 year new water heater.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

We own our water heater. Two years ago a diptube or some such thing cracked and the repair guy/gas fitter who came to fix it advised us to purchase a new water heater instead of make the repair because he found other problems with it while he was looking. 

He gave us another piece of advice. He told us to call Enbridge and rent a new water heater. They would come and install it for for free and in a few months we could purchase it from them. He suggested we do this because in Ontario Enbridge has exclusive contracts with some of the best manufacturers in the industry - as long as Enbridge distributes their product all over Ontario (they have HUGE market share here) the manufacturers are not allowed to sell the product anywhere else (Home Depot, etc.). He said it gives Enbridge and unfair advantage, but it is the best way to pay the least for the best water heater. We took his advice and have had no problems with our current water heater. 

Ontario Water heater rental revenues are spun off into an income trust: cwi.un.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

rookie said:


> and the last time i called direct energy (who owns my water heater), the cost was close to 1000 for my 3 year new water heater.


Yes because they have a great SCAM going and do not wish you to break it.

They even told me that they would charge ME to remove the old tank if I didn't want it. Really? I never signed a contract (did you?), most do not. They put one in the house and you just start paying. So IMO, if I don't feel like paying for it, I don't have to pay for it. Which means they will come and get it because I am not paying. Charge me LOL.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

I called, my Rental Unit cost me $10 to buy outright.

Water Heaters start to leak, that is the time to replace them and, although more expensive, next one will be On Demand type, sick of the noise from those exhaust fans.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I'm Howard said:


> Water Heaters start to leak, that is the time to replace them


If you replace the sacrificial annode every 5 years they can last almost forever!


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I was at my rental property and these guys came to the door. I told them "no thanks," as the rental heater was just replaced last year. I also understand how pushy they are, they've come right in the back yard, uninvited, through a gate and fence too. No need to yell or have a swearing match, just tell them no a few times and shut your door. They'll get the message. 

The high calcium levels in the water ruins the tanks fast. And I just had it repaired 3 years ago as the drain was leaking water..So yes, renting does make a little sense. There is now a brand new tank in there and it works great!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

steve41 said:


> Uh..... you rent your water heater?


No way! I bought my own from H-Depot back in 2000, removed the
Enbridge rental and put it outside and installed my own..copper plumbing,(threaded stubs),
connected up the gas and lit it. No big deal to install a standard gas
water heater. For the venter motor type, it just takes a duplex plug near the water heater..easy to run one in yourself and a ABS pipe exhaust hole out the foundation somewheres in the basement..again not a big installation
problem.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

jamesbe said:


> If you replace the sacrificial annode every 5 years they can last almost forever!


Yes, i need to do that to my 11 year old hwt..its not leaking but I will have
to check it out.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

jamesbe said:


> Yes because they have a great SCAM going and do not wish you to break it.
> 
> They even told me that they would charge ME to remove the old tank if I didn't want it. Really? I never signed a contract (did you?), most do not. They put one in the house and you just start paying. So IMO, if I don't feel like paying for it, I don't have to pay for it. Which means they will come and get it because I am not paying. Charge me LOL.


Just remove their tank and put it outside your house, call them to come and get it. I did that,
nocharges because as you say, the hwt came with the house..I never signed
a contract with Endbridge..so there was no contract to be terminate.

If you don't have the signed contract on paper (with all the fine print)..
it's not a contract..it's just an assumed monthly rental.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Dana said:


> We own our water heater.
> He gave us another piece of advice. He told us to call Enbridge and rent a new water heater. They would come and install it for for free and in a few months we could purchase it from them. He suggested we do this because in Ontario Enbridge has exclusive contracts with some of the best manufacturers in the industry - as long as Enbridge distributes their product all over Ontario (they have HUGE market share here)* the manufacturers are not allowed to sell the product anywhere else (Home Depot, etc*.). He said it gives Enbridge and unfair advantage, but it is the best way to pay the least for the best water heater. We took his advice and have had no problems with our current water heater.
> 
> Ontario Water heater rental revenues are spun off into an income trust: cwi.un.


Maybe he gets a cut from Enbridge for every tank he recommends?

Ok, maybe the particular brand that Enbridge has..BUT Home-Depot does sell gas fired hwt. 
I bought a GE glass line self cleaning tank from H-D ,even brought it home in my truck. 

I installed it myself, called Enbridge to come and inspect it. They told me if I trusted my own connections to go ahead and light it..
I did, and it's been working fine ever since.

Enbridge finally came around about a year later and inspected it..it passed. 


Cost of GE tank (in year 2000 dollars) $369 + tax..

saving over renting a tank from Enbridge..around $1500 over the last 11 years. 
Tank has a 9yr prorated warranty..still going strong.

Gas valves are very reliable..about the only thing to go wrong is the thermostat that goes from the gas valve into the tank..that can also be replaced, and so can the sacrificial anode.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Jungle said:


> I was at my rental property and these guys came to the door. I told them "no thanks," as the rental heater was just replaced last year. I also understand how pushy they are, they've come right in the back yard, uninvited, through a gate and fence too. No need to yell or have a swearing match, just tell them no a few times and shut your door. They'll get the message. [/QUOTE}
> 
> Well this guy WAS pushy, so he pissed me off and I called him a scam artist.
> He came through a latched gate that clearly had a sign "PRIVATE, no soliciting of any kind!:..so he was trespassing on MY PROPERTY as far as I'm concerned. GRRRRRRR!!! I HATE SCAM ARTISTS!!!!!!!
> ...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I bought my water heater out. It was new when I purchased the home. So I am confident it will end up to be less expensive than renting.

I somehow years ago, had a Direct Energy rep sign me up on their plan. I didn't even notice for several months, as the gas bill for Direct Energy comes on your regular Enbridge Gas bill. Yes, they did change it back, when they concluded that they did not have anything signed by myself, and admitted to a clerical error on their part.

Honestly, I completely understand how Carverman felt with the aforementioned sales rep. It will probably be the same when they show up at my door...


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

for those in ontario who are still renting, can any of you guys do me a favour? can you check your gas bill and see if they have a seperate charge for the rental from direct energy? i used to see a seperate charge in my bill until a few months ago but i havent seen it lately. so i am wondering if they have just integrated the charge into my gas bill.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

rookie said:


> for those in ontario who are still renting, can any of you guys do me a favour? can you check your gas bill and see if they have a seperate charge for the rental from direct energy? i used to see a seperate charge in my bill until a few months ago but i havent seen it lately. so i am wondering if they have just integrated the charge into my gas bill.


Mine is separate but then I'm not with Direct Energy or Enbridge either.
My rental is $20 a month right now and the buy-out price is just not compelling enough to switch.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

The cost of buying and installing a tank is cheaper than paying for the rental, and yes they rarely fail. This after managing many many properties. 

What makes me laugh is the guys who come to sign me up for gas. I don't even have gas at my house. 

I have a high efficiency oil furnace, costs me about $800 per year.

Enbridge gas are are a bunch of scammers. I used to have an industrial shop and we used to make all kinds of wood related things, kitchens and display cabinets etc. Well we had one of those ceiling mounted gas furnaces for the shop. 

So... the dust would get into it and it would whoosh explode every once in a while. Not really a big deal in the winter when it ran constantly but a big deal in the fall and spring when the furnace only turned on a couple times per day. Then we'd get an ash rainfall which would completely ruin any finishing we were working on. 

So as soon as spring/fall hit we'd shut the gas off at the meter to keep this from happening.(The pilot's enough to explode dust)

In comes the Enbridge bill, 50-60 bucks a month finally in the middle of July I get a bill for $80 and I call them...I tell them the gas is shut off at the meter how can this even happen? Well this is how much you're using they tell me. They keep sending me bills until I finally call them and cancel the service entirely. 

After that they tried to bill me for 6 months of "customer" charge when I have got them to turn it on again, then a hook up fee. I refused to pay for any of it and that's how we went Enbridge and I. 

All things considered, I would rather burn wood than allow their service in my house. I also don't understand why people think gas is cheaper than oil. With all the surcharges and bull.hit, it's more expensive as far as I can tell. I won't even consider a delivery service for oil either for the same reason. I call them twice per year and watch how much they put in the tank and pay it. 

It's hard to be this suspicious but it saves a lot of money.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

well, do we really have a choice? what if i do not want enbridge, what are my options in the GTA?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

rookie said:


> well, do we really have a choice? what if i do not want enbridge, what are my options in the GTA?


Each of the large gas companies like Enbridge, Union Gas have carved up the southern Ontario area amongst themselves.
If you are a "market rate" customer, I don't think you have a choice if your area is serviced by Enbridge.
And it doesn't matter...if you are at market rate, your bill will be the same regardless of provider.
The choice you do have is to go with one of the retail gas marketer companies that re-sell natural gas at a fixed rate to you.
You have a wider choice there.
However, given what a big rip off the fixed rate marketers are (much worse than water heater rentals), just stay with Enbridge.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

jamesbe said:


> If you replace the sacrificial annode every 5 years they can last almost forever!


+1

Seems nobody knows this anymore

5 mins of maint and your water heater will last for 10 years. Even completely untouched in hard water full of minerals they usually last for 15 years. All you need to do is check the annode and drain the minerals from the bottom every 5 years if you have hard water and they should last 20+ years and beyond

$400/20 years = ~$1.5 per month. How does renting possibly win..


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

I'd never heard of renting hot water heaters until I read about it on this forum. I don't think you could rent one in B.C. even if you wanted to.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

rookie said:


> well, do we really have a choice? what if i do not want enbridge, what are my options in the GTA?


Well with oil there are many different companies who compete with each other. Almost every time I fill my tank I shop around.

With wood heat, you can pick up firewood from people cutting down trees or order from different companies

With Enbridge you bend over. So you do have choices between fuel types. In fact a person could make a decent argument that having more than one way to heat your house is a good idea. This way you pick the more economical one according to market conditions.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> *Enbridge gas are are a bunch of scammers*. I used to have an industrial shop and we used to make all kinds of wood related things, kitchens and display cabinets etc. Well we had one of those ceiling mounted gas furnaces for the shop.


Yes, they are and you have to be constantly on your toes with them.

They have scammed many equal billing customers over the past 2 years, with "catch up bills" of several hundred dollars above what the customers were paying on equal billing. A lot of customers complained about this, but they are a monopoly and it seems given carte blanche by the Ont gov't to do as they please.

I pay as I go..but I always check my meter after receiving my monthly bill. I have a mid efficiency furnace and an owned water tank, so my heating/hot water costs this past fall/winter have been $840 so far , and that's also because of McGinty's Fiberals scamming us by adding HST on heating costs. A lot of people are complaing about that also..
but we are now starting to get used to getting screwed and scammed by gov't on all fronts..so heating and electricity are just part of the overall grabbing us by the shorthairs on all fronts!




> In comes the Enbridge bill, 50-60 bucks a month finally in the middle of July I get a bill for $80 and I call them...I tell them the gas is shut off at the meter how can this even happen? Well this is how much you're using they tell me. They keep sending me bills until I finally call them and cancel the service entirely.
> 
> After that they tried to bill me for 6 months of "customer" charge when I have got them to turn it on again, then a hook up fee. I refused to pay for any of it and that's how we went... Enbridge and I.


A lot of people have complained about " Enrage" and their bizarre billing practices. There is someone I know that for months didn't get a gas bill, from them, then all of a sudden got a $2500 "catchup" gas bill. When he called "Enrage" they told him over the phone that according to them, *HE was another customer with the same name*, and they determined from meter readings that he had consumed that much. He was shocked and asked how this could have happened?

"Well sir, you moved from house X to house y in Picton Ontario and this is now a settlement of account on your previous residence." they tell him.

"But I have never moved and never lived in Picton..I live in OTTAWA! he tells them."

The "Enrage" guy on the phone pauses with a silence, then says to (Ottawa gas customer by the same name as the Picton customer) ..that they will investigate to straighten out the matter.

Several weeks, then months go by , the Ottawa customer with the same name as the Picton customer doesn't get any monthly statements. So now it is presumed that the Picton customer with the same name is getting shafted with overbilling for gas
consumption from both accounts. 

The Ottawa customer with the same name expcts to get a huge "catchup" bill. 

In the meantime he is taking monthly gas readings to document HIS consumption.... in case he gets billed for (the other guy by the same name ), and has to take Enrage to small claims court. 

Now you would think that with different addresses in Ont and different gas accounts this should not happen?

The computer is mightier... than the brains that operate it!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Berubeland said:


> With Enbridge you bend over. So you do have choices between fuel types. In fact a person could make a decent argument that having more than one way to heat your house is a good idea. This way you pick the more economical one according to market conditions.


Good point "B"..but if the only source of heating & hot water is gas..
you are powerless to make those decisions, other than sign up with a gas marketer. I've done that to lock in over 5 years and I pay as I go...no choice in the matter for me , as I have a furnace, fireplace and hwt on gas.

So far I've been lucky..but if Enrage ever tangle with me over billing (like Bell TV did), they will quickly learn that I am one tough customer! However with Bell, I fought them over a bill where I had given them control to deduct from my MC...I will never
do that again or trust any utility or ISP/TV provider completely. Bell ended up paying me an extra $20 on the extra and
erroneous deduction from my MC and now I pay them online..when I want to. 

BTW..I've bent over several times in the last 15 years to get reamed out for a new assh*le by lawyers and judges and the succubus and her vulture-in-robes..so I've got a much tougher skin now.


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## KLR650 (Sep 12, 2010)

carverman said:


> Unbelievable!!! I gave a sign in my gate that guards the entrance to my front door.
> On the sign on mY GATE...in plain english it says "PRIVATE..no soliciting of any kind!"
> 
> This guy from 'NATIONAL HOME SERVICE" walks through the gate and rings my door bell. I open the door and see his "badge" and ask him "what do you want from me?" He replies "I'm here to check your water heater and see what "upgrades it needs"!"
> ...


Here's my experience with National Home Services. A very smooth talking guy from NHS came to the door and managed, in a weak moment of mine, to convince me to sign up for a water htr rental. The monthly fee would be slightly higher than our current rental from Reliance, however the new heater from NHS was supposed to be Energy Star rated and would be more efficient. The next weekend the installers came, looked at our water heater and told us that the new heater would be exactly the same as our current unit, which is only 2 yrs old. Thankfully they were honest so we said "no thanks". 

A month or two later another clown from NHS came to the door and tried again to convince me to sign up, but I was wise this time. He said that we were currently with Direct Energy, which is BAD because they are owned by BP. I said no, we're with Reliance and his response was "Worse! They're American". I asked him if there was anything wrong with American companies and shut the door. 

National Home Services are SCAM ARTISTS!

We won't be living here too much longer so will continue to rent. Next house however, we will own the water heater. I don't care if it breaks on Christmas Day...I'll fix it or replace it myself.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

KLR650 said:


> Here's my experience with National Home Services. A very smooth talking guy from NHS came to the door and managed, in a weak moment of mine, to convince me to sign up for a water htr rental. The monthly fee would be slightly higher than our current rental from Reliance, however the new heater from NHS was supposed to be Energy Star rated and would be more efficient. The next weekend the installers came, looked at our water heater and told us that the new heater would be exactly the same as our current unit, which is only 2 yrs old. Thankfully they were honest so we said "no thanks".
> 
> We won't be living here too much longer so will continue to rent. Next house however, we will own the water heater. I don't care if it breaks on Christmas Day...*I'll fix it or replace it myself*.


Yes, a lot of people are fooled by these scam artists.. They try and convince
you to sign up with them, thinking there is something wrong with your
current hwt..and then lock you into 15 year contracts...

here's what the Toronto Star had to say about them...

http://www.thestar.com/article/463378


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

What do you advise we do in our case? We are moving from Manitoba to Ontario and I am pretty sure the new house will have a rented tank. Should we write in the house sale agreement we don't want the tank? The house will probably be five years old max, so most likely the tank will be the same. My husband has little issues with installing a home depot ( or plumbing supply co as he gets a discount) himself. I am just not sure how to work out the logistics of removing the current tank... without anyone being without hot water for a few days.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Addy said:


> What do you advise we do in our case? We are moving from Manitoba to Ontario


Don't


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Addy said:


> What do you advise we do in our case? We are moving from Manitoba to Ontario and I am pretty sure the new house will have a rented tank. Should we write in the house sale agreement we don't want the tank? The house will probably be five years old max, so most likely the tank will be the same. My husband has little issues with installing a home depot ( or plumbing supply co as he gets a discount) himself. I am just not sure how to work out the logistics of removing the current tank... without anyone being without hot water for a few days.


Aside from the helpful advice already provided, you can always terminate your rental and have the rental company pick up their tank, usually free of charge.

If it's a gas heater, I'm not sure how insurance feels about self-installed heaters wrt fire insurance. A lot of people do penny-wise, pound-foolish things that end up invalidating their insurance.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Aside from the helpful advice already provided, you can always terminate your rental and have the rental company pick up their tank, usually free of charge.
> 
> If it's a gas heater, I'm not sure how insurance feels about self-installed heaters wrt fire insurance. A lot of people do penny-wise, pound-foolish things that end up invalidating their insurance.


Yes, that is correct Andrew. When I bought my place in '96, there was
an Enbridge rental tank and I was paying $12 to $13 a month..I forget.
I continued with the tank rental until 2000, when I decided it was crazy
to continue paying $180 a year for a convential 40 (US gal) tank (36 Imperial)
when the cost of the gas hwt at Home-Depot was around $369 at the time.

Removal procedure (Gas hwt)
=============
1. Close off the gas valve and let the pilot light use up any gas in the
stub between the valve and the tank.

2.Empty the tank into a drain using a garden hose fitted onto the plastic
drain valve at the bottom of the tank

3. Using a pipe wrench loosen the "disconnect/connect" union at the
bottom of the vertical gas pipe..it looks like a rather large nut. The
pipe into it and out of it is threaded. I forget now if one thread is LH
and the other RH..but anyway, it comes apart there FIRST.

Then all that's left as far as the gas pipe is to unscrew the stub at the top
and bottom of the T where it goes into the hwt gas valve and then unscrew
the remaining piece of pipe out of the gas valve. If there is enough height,
you can unscrew that T-stub without taking it completely apart.

4. cut the copper pipes (just above the tank) with pipe cutter, 

Now, the empty tank is free to roll out into your garage or outside for
Enbridge or whomever owns the tank to pick it up.

I went to H-D and picked up a GE "Smart tank"..self cleaning, glass lined,
and with a 9 yr prorated warranty. H-D helped me load it onto my truck.
Got it home, unpacked and rolled it into the spot where the rental tank was.

Installation procedure (Gas hwt)
================
1. Installed 2 threaded stubs into the tank. These need to be purchased
separately as they are steel threaded stubs about 4 inches in length.
Once those are tightened (use pipe compound available from H-D) with
a pipe wrench, screw on the brass fittings onto them that accept either
3/4 inch or 1/2 " copper pipe. Again it is absolutely necessarily to use
a good teflon compound pipe thread compound to ensure no leaks under
pressure..and you only have to do the job once!

2. Now you have reconnect the gas pipe FIRST, before re-attaching the 
copper hot and cold pipes on the tank. 

Use fresh teflon thread compound on the threads of the stub that goes
into the hwt's gas valve body, and any threaded junctions that have
been taken apart. Clean the old gunk off with a wire brush and put liberal
amounts of fresh pipe thread compound on the threads.


3. Reconnect the gas pipe (pieces) in the same order as you removed them.


4. Using brass 1 inch to 1/2" threaded fittings (2 req'd) and copper pipe joiners (2)m and a small chunk of new copper pipe (2 feet should do), dry fit the new copper pipe and pipe joiners between the brass adapters on the steel threaded stubs and the existing old copper pipe for a good fit. You will need a pipe
cutter for this..but you should already have one from the removal procedure.

5. Using some emery cloth clean the old copper pipe at the pipe joiner.

6. When all the copper pieces have been dry fitted..take them apart again
and smear some soldering paste onto the pipe.

7. Using a propane torch and 50/50 solder (or that new leadless solder)
heat up each joint on the fitting and allow the solder to flow into the
joint.

8. Do not overheat the copper..it will turn red and oxidize..much harder
to get the solder to stick.

9, Using a wet cloth rub the excess solder around each "sweated" copper 
joint and ensure that the solder has filled the joint with no voids.

10. Now you are ready for the gas connection inspection..
using ordinary household dish detergent..make a thick solution of it in
a container and using a paint brush..or spray bottle..brush it on each
gas fitting that was disturbed by you. If the pipe with the new joint
compound is sealing..there should be no soap bubbles when you turn on
the gas valve.

IF THERE IS..turn off the gas valve IMMEDIATELY and find out why there
is a leak!

11. If no gas leaks are detected, you are ready to turn on the water shut off taps above the tank. IF YOUR TANK DOES NOT HAVE TWO..YOU MAY HAVE
PROBLEMS INSTALLING THE NEW TANK..UNLESS YOU USE THE METER VALVE
TO SHUT OFF THE WATER. 

12. Turn on the shut off taps and let the tank fill. Let the air escape out
of the tank by opening laundry tub taps etc...until the water comes running
out and no hissing air escaping.

SO SIMPLE, Even a CAVEMAN..er CARVERMAN can do it!

13. Once the hwt is filled. your are ready to light it.

Call Enbridge for an inspection. If it's immediate..they will charge you for
an inspection..otherwise it will be a random one (N/C) several days, weeks
or even months before they come around. I being very frugal 
asked for a random inspection.

Now the decision to light (or start up the tank) is based on your confidence
level and whether you are sure there is no gas or water leaks from your
handy work...light the tank and enjoy the savings of owning your own HWT.


*For fire insurance purposes, the new tank (self installed) has to be inspected
by Enbridge and a inspection sticker attached to it. You also have to have
a tag attached to the gas pipe somewhere indicating it is 'self installed"
AND the date of installation. The tank also requires a pressure release valve
plastic pipe attached to the pressure relief valve to pass inspection..*..

....that's about it. I had no problems passing my inspection. 

Mine is 11 years old..figured I saved about $1500 so far by not renting.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> What do you advise we do in our case? We are moving from Manitoba to Ontario and I am pretty sure the new house will have a rented tank. Should we write in the house sale agreement we don't want the tank?


No, I don't believe you can do that on the sales agreement. That has to
be done separately between the tank rental company and yourselves.



> The house will probably be five years old max, so most likely the tank will be the same. *My husband has little issues with installing a home depot ( or plumbing supply co as he gets a discount) himself.*


It also depends on his confidence level dealing with nat gas. See my 
self installed instructions in a previous post to Andrewf. 



> I am just not sure how to work out the logistics of removing the current tank... without anyone being without hot water for a few days.


You really can't be without hot water and why should you?

IF your hubby thinks he can install the tank himself (read my suggested procedure that I used)
then go to H-D buy the new tank, 1" steel stub pipes, brass threaded
adapters (1 inch to 1/2 inch) a couple of copper pipe joiners, solder
paste, and if the current installed tank doesn't have shutoff valves on
both the hot/cold runs into the tank, you will also need to buy and install
these valves above the tank as well. 

Remove the old tank and install new one as per my suggested procedure.

If hubby is good at plumbing..the most it should take is 4 hrs..if hubby
has to redo a few copper leaks..it will take longer and he may need a
different procedure,because there is water in the pipes at that point..
and solder will NOT stick to the copper pipes then. The pipes/tank will 
have to be emptied again at least to the point of the leaky joint.
Timeto redo.??? several hours. Do the joints right the first time!


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## sonofab (Jan 20, 2011)

*Reason people end up renting*

The reason that in Ontario that we rent is this. When a new home is built one of these agencies provides to the builder free of charge a hot water heater. It was actually specified as a line item in the purchase agreement. I suppose if you ask the builder to not install the rental one that they would up the price to cover the purchase of a hot water tank. The builder saves hundreds for each house they build and the agency gets money monthly. When I called to try to buy out my hot water heater after 2 years they said it would cost me $1000, the same as buying new and they gave me a spiel that theirs is better because the manufacturer cannot sell them to retail.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sonofab said:


> When I called to try to buy out my hot water heater after 2 years they said it would cost me $1000, the same as buying new and they gave me a spiel that *theirs is better because the manufacturer cannot sell them to retail.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> That is pure bunk! Sure they have sweetheart deals with certain manufacturers only to provide them with that particular brand name..
> I can't think of it right now..RHEEM??
> ...


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## Sustainable PF (Nov 5, 2010)

That's when I tell my 105lb Newfie who is standing by the door on guard (ready to pounce, and .... lick ):

Freya, BALLS.

I then let her wedge her massive head between my hip and the door frame as she lunges toward the fool on the porch. She is absolutely ready to be loved - but they don't know that.

They run pretty quick but the cursing is no longer at me ....


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Thanks for the thread revival, reminded me to call to buyout my rental. $110 not bad.


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