# US unrest.....protest/riots



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It appears almost impossible to hold a peaceful protest or sports celebration in the US anymore without it turning into a riot.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Leftist thugs use incidents like this as an excuse to loot and riot. If you recall...or maybe not because the left media basically ignored it because it didn't fit their agenda, just a few years ago a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white woman in Minneapolis a few years ago. No one rioted. A few people protested peacefully and that was it.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> Leftist thugs use incidents like this as an excuse to loot and riot. If you recall...or maybe not because the left media basically ignored it because it didn't fit their agenda, just a few years ago a black cop shot and killed an unarmed white woman in Minneapolis a few years ago. No one rioted. A few people protested peacefully and that was it.


The shooter of the Australian woman was convicted and sent to prison for 12 years, even though it was established that he was jaded and mistakenly opened fire. Most officers who kill black men don't even get indicted, and some of those killings are very fishy.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Topo said:


> The shooter of the Australian woman was convicted and sent to prison for 12 years, even though it was established that he was jaded and mistakenly opened fire. Most officers who kill black men don't even get indicted, and some of those killings are very fishy.


I know he was convicted, my point was that no one rioted. It's only the leftist thugs who riot in these situations....and they don't wait for the case to make it's way through court.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The Ruling Class never gave the Lower Class anything without the threat of violence.

All the social gains made during the 60's and 70's was because the Ruling Class were under threat.

It is that the dissent became "Organized" which has the Establishment terrified.

Without the threat of violence, the Ruling Class ignores you.

All this "Jibberish" about non-violence is sold to us as a "Religion" and it is all a myth.

Ghandi said
During a prayer speech on June 16, 1947: “If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British.” ~ Gandhi’s “The Last Phase,” Vol. II, p. 326
“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” ~ Gandhi’s “Autobiography,” Part V, Chapter XXVII

Does anybody really think that Roosevelt introduced the "New Deal" because it was "Kind To Animal Week"? There were huge protests and threats/plots to take over the Whitehouse.

"And, it didn't happen because FDR was a great guy. It happened because people in this country were so radicalized, were so determined, were so organized, that he was able to sell the new deal to the elites as a compromise because the alternative was revolution."
--Naomi Klein, National Conference for Media reform, June 07, 2008--

Before the New Deal was introduced, Eisenhower and Patton were sent in to set fire to the unemployed camps.

Both General Douglas MacArthur and Major George S. Patton attacked the homeless at their tent city.








Bonus Army - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





The reason that the RCMP became an important and indispensable asset to the Federal Government was because they "Excelled" at beating unemployed protesters in Winnipeg. Before that they were nobodies.

"Have you ever though about the meaning of the phrase, "law enforcement agency," the phrase used to identify police of various kinds? If you have, you surely realize that it makes no sense. Police do not enforce, that is, make people obey, the law. In fact, police have nothing to do until the law has been broken. A society of lawful people needs no police, and the more police a society needs, the more lawless it is. Police are not agents of order; they are agents of retribution. And lawlessness in a society is not an indictment of people, it is an indictment of government. A well governed, well ordered society needs no police or guard workers."
--Professor John Kozy, Nation of Laws and Lawlessness: America is Policing Itself and the World, April 16, 2010--

America has had 250 years experience when dealing with riots and yet pretends it does not know how to deal with them.

America has had 250 years experience writing cheques and yet would claim that they could not find the proper language and legalese to distribute funds to those corporations being bailed out in order to ensure fairness.

“In the history of secrets, withheld from the American people, this is the biggest secret: that there are classes with different interests in this country. To ignore that — not to know that the history of our country is a history of slaveowner against slave, landlord against tenant, corporation against worker, rich against poor — is to render us helpless before all the lesser lies told to us by people in power.”








Time to Deprogram From the Cult of National Unity


People don’t like seeing their gods blasphemed, and the backlash against Colin Kaepernick’s refusal to stand for the national anthem has revealed the completely religious nature of American patriotism. Tomi Lahren, whose views on racial matters are about what you’d expect from a “conservative...




c4ss.org





"There were two main trends or tendency within the African-American Freedom Movement of the Sixties (and other Freedom Movements inspired by it).
One was the non-violent resistance exemplified by King and Rosa Parks.
The other was the militant, in-your-racist-face resistance of Robert Williams, Malcolm X and the Black Panthers (who, of course, originated in Oakland).
It's interesting but not surprising that the former gets all kinds of validation in the schools and holidays today while the other is scarcely mentioned or honored if at all.
In any case, King and Malcolm, despite their different ideologies and approaches, appreciated the value of each other. They were like a "good-cop"/"bad-cop" routine against the ruling elite, without which the achievements in the ways of Civil Rights during that era would not have come about.
I believe Malcolm said it straight-out in his visit to Selma speaking to the southern racists: "If you don't want to deal with King, you're going to have to deal with people like me."
And his words were already starting to be backed-up by urban rebellions."
--VermontLeftist, Comment, February2012--








The Story Behind 'Alice's Restaurant' - the 50-Year-Old Song that Is Forever Young


Its smirkily subversive message finds new adherents every year, while in its familiar glow longtime acquaintances grow young again.




www.alternet.org





The Black Freedom Movement and Chris Hedges' Misuse of History
By Jay Moore
February 16, 2012








The Black Freedom Movement and Chris Hedges’ Misuse of History | MR Online


"We want freedom now, but we're not going to get it saying 'We Shall Overcome.' We've got to fight until we overcome." -- Malcolm X "A social movement that only moves people is merely a revolt. A movement that changes both people and institutions is a revolution." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr...




mrzine.monthlyreview.org





How Nonviolence Protects the State (e-Book)
Since the civil rights era, the doctrine of nonviolence has enjoyed near-universal acceptance by the US Left. Today protest is normally shaped by cooperation with state authorities-even organizers of rallies against police brutality apply for police permits, and anti-imperialists commonly stop short of supporting self-defense and armed resistance. How Nonviolence Protects the State challenges the belief that nonviolence is the only method to fight for a much better world. In a call bound to stir controversy and lively debate, Peter Gelderloos invites activists to take into account diverse tactics, passionately arguing that exclusive nonviolence normally acts to reinforce the exact same structures of oppression that activists seek to overthrow.
Contemporary movements for social change face lots of hard questions, but occasionally matters of technique and tactics obtain low priority. Numerous North American activists fail to scrutinize the role of nonviolence, never posing important questions:
Is nonviolence effective at ending systems of oppression?
Does nonviolence intersect with white privilege and also the dominance of North over South?
How does pacifism reinforce the exact same power dynamic as patriarchy?
Ultimately, does nonviolence protect the state?
Peter Gelderloos is a radical community organizer. He is the author of Consensus: A New Handbook for Grassroots Political, Social, and Environmental Groups along with a contributor to Letters From Young Activists. He is the co-facilitator of a workshop on the prison system, and is also involved in independent media, copwatching, anti-oppression work, and anarchist organizing.
Semi-Abridged 2nd Edition
By Peter Gelderloos
2007




__





ebooksfreedownload.org






ebooksfreedownload.org





"Stop The Machine" Or How To Demoralize A Movement
By John A. Murphy
October 07, 2011


http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2011/10/...ize-a-movement



Nonviolence: Its Histories and Myths
By Professor Michael Neumann
February 08, 2003








“STOP THE MACHINE” OR HOW TO DEMORALIZE A MOVEMENT


About the author: John Murphy was the independent candidate for House of Representatives in the 16th Congressional District of Pennsylvania in 2006 and 2008. He is one of the founding members of th…




wrongkindofgreen.org





A Conversation About Nonviolence
Eric Stoner responds to Stephen Zunes: Yes, nonviolent movements have achieved important democratic and political reforms. But if they fail to address the divide between rich and poor, are they really success stories?
By Eric Stoner
November 13, 2009


http://yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/a-conversation-about-nonviolence



Militarizing a response to a riot is known to only encourage rioting and that is the intention of the Ruling Class. 

Understanding Riots
By David D. Haddock and Daniel D. Poisby
(PDF Document)


https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/1994/5/cj14n1-13.pdf



The same people who complain about property damage are the same people who just spent 10 trillion to bail out the Ecomomic Terrorists.

The same people who transported skids off dollar bills (2.4 billion) to Iraq and distributed cash to communities and villages in Iraq would pretend that they don't know how to help people in need.








Billions over Baghdad


Between April 2003 and June 2004, $12 billion in U.S. currency—much of it belonging to the Iraqi people—was shipped from the Federal Reserve to Baghdad, where it was dispensed by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Some of the cash went to pay for projects and keep ministries afloat, but...




www.vanityfair.com





The Ruling Class know full well that they are going to be enduring social discontent as the economic system continues to collapse and that Marital Law will need to be introduced.

The Ruling Class have been militarizing every police force in the country.

The Ruling Class are setting up the situation where Martial Law will be welcomed in communities.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> It appears almost impossible to hold a peaceful protest or sports celebration in the US anymore without it turning into a riot.


 ... not surprised that these riots haven't started earlier, like a month or 2 ago. Not like they didn't ever existed. And moreso, won't see them desisting anytime soon, if not more to come, like a contagion. Meanwhile the American Messiah continues to MAGA!!!!


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

It's quite fitting that CNN who have been calling everyone racist and has been lying for years had their building attacked by the very people they incited to violence.

And of course, the same clueless idiots who still haven't figured it out will blame Trump.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> I know he was convicted, my point was that no one rioted. It's only the leftist thugs who riot in these situations....and they don't wait for the case to make it's way through court.


The protests are because of the injustice, which is illustrated in this example of how killing a white woman by a black officer is treated differently from killing a black man by a white officer.

The looting and the arson are not justified, but that is not what the majority of protesters are doing.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Topo said:


> The protests are because of the injustice, which is illustrated in this example of how killing a white woman by a black officer is treated differently from killing a black man by a white officer.
> 
> The looting and the arson are not justified, but that is not what the majority of protesters are doing.


Ah...so it's a different type of "injustice" when a black cop kills a white women. Thanks for clarifying that you've bought into the agenda. Maybe you can be a guest on CNN.

I saw a far more looters, vandalizers, and thugs than protestors. Interestingly, virtually all of the violence is taking place in Democrat run cities. I'm not sure why Americans are so stupid to keep electing them.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> I saw a far more looters, vandalizers, and thugs than protestors. Interestingly, virtually all of the violence is taking place in Democrat run cities. I'm not sure why Americans are so stupid to keep electing them.


Do you think electing Republicans in those cities would solve the problem of "dirty cops"?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Topo said:


> Do you think electing Republicans in those cities would solve the problem of "dirty cops"?


Maybe not, but it might solve the problem of anarchist thugs thinking that they can loot, vandalize, and commit arson without suffering any consequences.

Don't forget that when a black cop killed a white woman in the very same city just a couple years ago no one looted, vandalized, or committed arson.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> Don't forget that when a black cop killed a white woman in the very same city just a couple years ago no one looted, vandalized, or committed arson.


You would see the same reaction if black cops were methodically killing white women. Even the perception would do the job. Remember the "Tulsa race riots"?


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I led my first protest in 1970 in Onaping Ontario.

Protest Parades or marching down the street are things of the past.
Streets act as a tunnel and are great for police when they want to kettle protesters.

Protests must be organized differently today.

No-Knock Protests :

Choose a day ..... and allow the individual protester to choose a time and place of their choosing, but on a specific date or day.

Encourage the protester to commit an act of disobedience on that day and which they feel comfortable with and in an area of the city they choose.

News reports the following day will detail how successful you were.

In no time flat, the Ruling Class will be begging to negotiate.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> I know he was convicted, my point was that no one rioted. It's only the leftist thugs who riot in these situations....and they don't wait for the case to make it's way through court.


Wait until November.

Anyone remember Cliven Bundy?


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Let the Ruling Class deal with these protesters like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan to quell the resistance..

Fly in skids of 100 dollar bills (2.4 Billion) and distribute it within the community.








Billions over Baghdad


Between April 2003 and June 2004, $12 billion in U.S. currency—much of it belonging to the Iraqi people—was shipped from the Federal Reserve to Baghdad, where it was dispensed by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Some of the cash went to pay for projects and keep ministries afloat, but...




www.vanityfair.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is now reported there were white supremacy groups who infiltrated into the protesters and were setting the fires.

There were lots of black people looting the stores though, so they don't get a pass either.

There is both race and class wars in the US. Poverty seems to be the common thread.

You don't see wealthy white people battling in the streets with wealthy black people, and wealthy people don't get shot as often as poor people.

Trump has given a wink and a nod to alt right groups and given them a comfort level to act out that they didn't have before.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Certainly, peaceful protester cannot be blamed for the violence. They have the right to protest and perhaps a patriotic duty to do so. It is either extreme individuals/groups (left and right) that should take the blame or (better even) Derek Chauvin who started all of this.

Made me think: will the word "chauvinism" attain a new meaning going forward?


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

America always blames the stranger for their problems.
Russia, China and other Outsiders.
------
Face it, the Ruling Class chose to allow the protests to get out of control so that Martial Law would be welcomed into the community. America has 250 years experience dealing with protests and the cause of civil unrest. They just play stupid.
------
America has instigated protests around the globe. They know exactly what they are doing.
They protect protesters and looters in Hong Kong and Taiwan but demonize them at home.

The Revolution Business
Journeyman Pictures
May 27, 2011


http://www.journeyman.tv/62012/short-films/the-revolution-business.html


Transcript:


http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=62012&tmpl=transcript










Invasion of the Mind Snatchers - Antiwar.com Original


Nebojsa Malic on the Empire's revolution business - Nebojsa Malic for Antiwar.com Original




original.antiwar.com












Gene Sharp: Author of the nonviolent revolution rulebook


Dr Gene Sharp is the man credited with the strategy behind the toppling of governments from Serbia to Egypt.



www.bbc.co.uk




(PDF Document)


http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations/org/FDTD.pdf


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I have always contended that the rise of Hitler was "Managed" because of "Class Warfare" within societies and not simply because of "Religion".

The population attacked anybody who even smelled of weath and they attacked the most well-educated because they realized that they had been lied to for an eternity.

The Europeans remembered the Roaring 20's and how the Rich Folks flaunted their wealth and then during the early 1930s Europeans were having to take their family heirlooms to a pawnshop just to pay the rent.

I recall the immigration protests in 2006, and where protesters shut down cities by controlling the streets. Within a week Washington introduced a new "Idea" and called it "Comprehensive Immigration Reform". Blocking roadways is very costly because it prevents deliveries to business.

The Ruling Class are quite content having this protest appear to be about racism only and not the inequities of the Capitalist System. That is why they are out there in TV-Land talking about racism and not economic inequlity.

I am reminded of how we deal with cancer and how we view anti-semitism ..... The Ruling Class are always talking about the cure rather than the cause.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> Maybe not, but it might solve the problem of anarchist thugs thinking that they can loot, vandalize, and commit arson without suffering any consequences.
> 
> Don't forget that when a black cop killed a white woman in the very same city just a couple years ago no one looted, vandalized, or committed arson.


Probably because he was actually arrested and sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. Interesting how that works when it's a black cop? Shooting of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

Meanwhile Derek Chauvin had a history of disciplinary issues, and nothing was going to happen if the protests hadn't started. Which is pretty much what happens anytime a white cop kills a black man.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I think that there must of been a zillion protesters on the street last evening.
Lets guess and say that a zillion protesters lit 50 fires and looted 50 stores.

Why are we being bombarded with all this violence talk?
Realizing just how many protesters were out there, I think that we should be complimenting protesters for such a peaceful protest. There should be little talk about violence.
There is no need for such a use of force.
The Ruling Class are controlling the narrative rather than talk about "InJustice" and inequality throughout the system.

If just .0000000000008 percent off the protesters were violent, the non violent should be given the keys to the city.

The city police force has 800 officers, so the chances of an offficer being racist or violent is 1 in every 800. The odds of a protester being violent is about .0000000000008 percent. They should be giving the cops a curfew.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Two monkeys were paid unequally

funny video of how 2 monkeys act when paid unequally. Give the video a view seconds to load & appear. The fed is causing a lot of the problem money is going to the wealthy. Along with the in your face in your wallet authoritarian government.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

:) lonewolf said:


> Two monkeys were paid unequally


I enjoyed that short video.

"One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, 'My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all. One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.
The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.'
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: 'Which wolf wins?'
The old Cherokee simply replied, ‘The one you feed.’"
--The Rev. Kealahou C. Alika, Keawala‘i Congregational Church, United Church of Christ (USA), January 20, 2008--


Keawala'i Congregational Church, Kahu's Mana'o


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> Probably because he was actually arrested and sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. Interesting how that works when it's a black cop? Shooting of Justine Damond - Wikipedia


No one waited for an arrest or conviction in this case...the riots, vandalism, looting, and arson started immediately.



> Meanwhile Derek Chauvin had a history of disciplinary issues, and nothing was going to happen if the protests hadn't started. Which is pretty much what happens anytime a white cop kills a black man.


Riots, arson, vandalism, and looting are not protests.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> It is now reported there were white supremacy groups who infiltrated into the protesters and were setting the fires.


 That doesn't make it factual...but maybe there really were white supremacists, but in most cases they are leftists.



> There were lots of black people looting the stores though, so they don't get a pass either.


Tell that to the media....they're the ones trying to sell this as a protest against racism instead of what it really is.



> Trump has given a wink and a nod to alt right groups and given them a comfort level to act out that they didn't have before.


And yet all the violence is being committed by Antifa and leftist thugs.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

I guess the lockdown is over if "protestors" are allowed to ignore social distancing guidelines. Or, perhaps Covid can;t be spread during a protest?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> No one waited for an arrest or conviction in this case...the riots, vandalism, looting, and arson started immediately.


There is the other factor that the rate of black people being killed by cops is probably a lot higher than white people and just some recent examples in the last few months with no consequences for the cops is probably enough to set off events. Or even something like the Ahmaud Arbery murder was another incident that piled onto the historical mistreatment of blacks in America. Keep in mind in the last incident, it happened in February, and the police did nothing until the video was leaked to the public and it made national news. At which point they start bringing up his criminal past that had no relevance on the fact that he was murdered.

This incident was just a long line of incidents which set off a powder keg that's been building for years.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> There is the other factor that the rate of black people being killed by cops is probably a lot higher than white people.


Incorrect. That's just the lie that you're told. I'm guessing that you never bothered to verify if that was true, and you just accepted it as fact? Even left leaning NPR agrees:









New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects


A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.




www.npr.org





Perhaps some of you could to do some research instead of repeatedly making false claims.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MAGA loves black people ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266797274149146624
In Canada people are retweeting.....I stand with Trudeau.

https://twitter.com/search?q=#iStandWithTrudeau&src=trend_click

Trudeau leads Scheer by 19 points and has an 86% approval rating for handling the pandemic.

It don't get much better than that.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> I guess the lockdown is over if "protestors" are allowed to ignore social distancing guidelines. Or, perhaps Covid can;t be spread during a protest?


Give it a week or two. People attending that big pool party in Missouri are now testing positive.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump couldn't stand it when NFL players "took a knee". He chose instead to give the pot a good stirring. That hasn't worked out well.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> I guess the lockdown is over if "protestors" are allowed to ignore social distancing guidelines. Or, perhaps Covid can;t be spread during a protest?


It also spreads through the police man-handling citizens for trivial reasons, Trump shuttling back and forth between DC and FL, etc.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

calm said:


> I have always contended that the rise of Hitler was "Managed" because of "Class Warfare" within societies and not simply because of "Religion"............


That didn't take long. The thread got Godwined on its first page.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

You mock the content and yet refuse to detail where my comment was not absolute truth.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Looks like protests have spread to Toronto:









Protesters rally against anti-black, Indigenous racism in Toronto


TORONTO — Thousands of protesters took to the streets of downtown Toronto on Saturday, chanting "justice for Regis" as they rallied in the aftermath of high-profile, police-involved deaths in both Canada and the United States.The protest follows the death of Regis Korchinski-Paquet in Toronto




ca.yahoo.com


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

what's with all the backpacks? never seen do many people wearing backpacks...
and....no more social distancing....? gonna be a big spike in cases...


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> Incorrect. That's just the lie that you're told. I'm guessing that you never bothered to verify if that was true, and you just accepted it as fact? Even left leaning NPR agrees:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have a reading comprehension problem. From the first sentence in the transcript.
When you look at the number of police shootings in relation to the population, you find that people of color are shot and killed more often than white people. The reason for that disparity has been intensely debated for years, especially since an unarmed black teenager was shot and killed in Ferguson, Mo. almost five years ago.

The point was whether the police bias changes with the race of the police officer.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

jargey3000 said:


> what's with all the backpacks? never seen do many people wearing backpacks...
> and....no more social distancing....? gonna be a big spike in cases...


Backpacks are typically worn by “professional” protestors. They carry snacks, water, goggles, change of clothes, first aid, headwear. You’ll see some carrying umbrellas too to block out cameras and drones. I saw tweets earlier today that listed things to bring when out protesting. 

We’re seeing peaceful protestors, professional s**t disturbers and out right anarchists this week.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> It appears almost impossible to hold a peaceful protest or sports celebration in the US anymore without it turning into a riot.


Something similar happening to discussions on this forum.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I can't believe I need to point this out, but it's pretty much a given fact that black males are killed at a higher rate than any other cohort: 
What New Research Says About Race and Police Shootings
Here's the study:
Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

An interesting tidbit, it turns out that most of those in the Minneapolis riots were out of state. Plus a few white supremacist groups decided to use the protests as cover to create chaos. Minnesota Officials Link Arrested Looters to White Supremacist Groups


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> I can't believe I need to point this out, but it's pretty much a given fact that black males are killed at a higher rate than any other cohort:
> What New Research Says About Race and Police Shootings
> Here's the study:
> Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex


So, the question is why do blacks commit more crimes? A cop is the US is 18 times more likely to be killed by a black person than by a white person.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> An interesting tidbit, it turns out that most of those in the Minneapolis riots were out of state. Plus a few white supremacist groups decided to use the protests as cover to create chaos. Minnesota Officials Link Arrested Looters to White Supremacist Groups


Leftist protestors are bused in to spur anarchy....Antifa, BLM, and loser white liberals living in their parent's basement all magically show up at the same time to loot, riot, and commit arson. And then Trump gets blamed for their actions.

I guess if I punch you in the face it's your fault for inciting me?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> So, the question is why do blacks commit more crimes? A cop is the US is 18 times more likely to be killed by a black person than by a white person.


You have something to back that up? That still doesn't excuse the fact that police tend to kill unarmed blacks more than any other race. Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

On another note, the LA police seem so incompetent. What looks like a whole battalion have cornered a few peaceful protesters and are one by one arresting them, while there is looting going on in other places of the city, because there is no police around to prevent it!


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> You have something to back that up? That still doesn't excuse the fact that police tend to kill unarmed blacks more than any other race. Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement


Yes, actual stats. Look it up if you're interested in the facts.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Topo said:


> On another note, the LA police seem so incompetent. What looks like a whole battalion have cornered a few peaceful protesters and are one by one arresting them, while there is looting going on in other places of the city, because there is no police around to prevent it!


Police are told to stand down, just like Trudeau lets the natives block rail lines without repercussion.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

It is just amazing how the word "Violence" is being abused.
America was built with violence as the main tool.
America has been manufacturing violence and weapons for 250 years.
America has been prancing the world stage and threatening violence upon the innocent for 250 years.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Leftist protestors are bused in to spur anarchy....Antifa, BLM, and loser white liberals living in their parent's basement all magically show up at the same time to loot, riot, and commit arson. And then Trump gets blamed for their actions.
> 
> I guess if I punch you in the face it's your fault for inciting me?


Antifa/anarchists are not what I would necessarily call left wing, any more than you would want to describe Nazis as right wing. Antifa/anarchists have said "Liberals get the bike lock too", referring to an incident where an antifa person essentially tried to kill someone with a bike lock. They more want to see society burn and don't really fit into the political spectrum.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

We have gone from Covid-19 and herd immunity to police violence with herd impunity.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

List of killings by law enforcement officers in Canada
From Wikipedia





List of killings by law enforcement officers in Canada - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Police riot
From Wikipedia








Police riot - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

surprised to just read somewhere that blacks, or african-americans comprise about 12% of US population. I woulda guessed close to double that, about 20%....


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

jargey3000 said:


> blacks, or african-americans comprise about 12% of US population...


Lets pretend that you got a job at a company in 1999 and this was the work place situation and you wanted to quit but could not afford to.


Sociological Comparisons between African-Americans and Whites
Racial inequality in the United States identifies the social advantages and disparities that affect different races within the United States. These can also be seen as a result of historic oppression, inequality of inheritance, or overall prejudice, especially against minority groups.
1999


https://www.radford.edu/~junnever/bw.htm




Then, 20 years later the work place looked like this


Racial inequality in the United States
Racial inequality in the United States identifies the social advantages and disparities that affect different races within the United States. These can also be seen as a result of historic oppression, inequality of inheritance, or overall prejudice, especially against minority groups.
From Wikipedia
May 31, 2020





Racial inequality in the United States - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Would you hang the company executives and destroy everything they owned?


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

dotnet_nerd said:


> That didn't take long. The thread got Godwined on its first page.


Believe me, I know this topic extremely well. And I will clearly state again that what happened in Germany, started as Class Warfare.

Pawn shops were burned to the ground. And anybody who even smelled of wealth was terrified.

In early 1933, Hitler was not the undisputed leader of Germany, nor did he have full command of the armed forces. Hitler was a major figure in a coalition government, but he was far from being the government himself. That was the result of a process of consolidation which evolved later.

Exact same thing is happening today (social unrest) and Hitler is long dead. So, it is not about Hitler.

When pawn shops were burned and the most well educated attacked ......

Samuel Untermye encouraged a boycott of German products on March 12, 1933. A mere 3 years into Great Depression or after the crash of 1929. "Holy War" is the exact term used by Samuel Untermyer at the time.








Samuel Untermyer - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> Yes, actual stats. Look it up if you're interested in the facts.


Nope, you said it, you prove it. That's how things work.

Otherwise, I just disregard you and your posts.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> Police are told to stand down, just like Trudeau lets the natives block rail lines without repercussion.


That is part of the problem. When businesses are burned or looted, the Police stand down (i.e. run away). When they get their hands on a hand-cuffed suspect, it is open season...


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Here are some examples of what happens when the police don't come with the mindset that it's an us vs them situation to deal with protesters. Not much in way of riots.
In Some Cities, Police Officers Joined Protesters Marching Against Brutality


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

bgc_fan said:


> Here are some examples of what happens when the police don't come with the mindset that it's an us vs them situation to deal with protesters. Not much in way of riots.
> In Some Cities, Police Officers Joined Protesters Marching Against Brutality


It shows that the problem is not necessarily the officers, but the system that allows bad apples to thrive.


----------



## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

Prairie Guy said:


> Yes, actual stats. Look it up if you're interested in the facts.











How Conservatives Use Made-Up And/Or Misleading Nonsense To Justify Police Killings | Current Affairs







www.currentaffairs.org


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Antifa/anarchists are not what I would necessarily call left wing, any more than you would want to describe Nazis as right wing. Antifa/anarchists have said "Liberals get the bike lock too", referring to an incident where an antifa person essentially tried to kill someone with a bike lock. They more want to see society burn and don't really fit into the political spectrum.


It doesn't matter what YOU call Antifa. They have been identified as an alt left terror group. The Nazis were more left wing than right wing....the problem is the left and the media try to convince people otherwise.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

So, for about every 3000 residents of the U.S., there is one Federal agent entitled to carry a firearm to murder them on behalf of their consensual government.




__





Pistol Packing Feds (Fourmilog: None Dare Call It Reason)






www.fourmilab.ch





In a 2005 interview with AlterNet, Ames said the "slave mentality" is stronger in the U.S. than elsewhere, "in part because no other country on earth has so successfully crushed every internal rebellion."


http://www.alternet.org/story/24796/a_brief_history_of_rage%2C_murder_and_rebellion



Slaves in the Caribbean for example rebelled a lot more because their oppressors weren't as good at oppressing as Americans were. America has put down every rebellion, brutally, from the Whiskey Rebellion to the Confederate rebellion to the proletarian rebellions, Black Panthers, white militias ... you name it. This creates a powerful slave mentality, a sense that it's pointless to rebel.

Violence:

".... the US Army flag has 183 campaign ribbons on it, which averages out to approximately 1.3 wars per year. ...."
--Matthis Chiroux, US invents enemies to go to war?, interviewed By Anastasia Churkina, March 08, 2012--


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Minneapolis has a Democrat mayor, Democrat senator, Democrat governor, and a Democrat country prosecutor. They let this happen...not Trump.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> Minneapolis has a Democrat mayor, Democrat senator, Democrat governor, and a Democrat country prosecutor. They let this happen...not Trump.


...And as president, Trump has done nothing helpful. Just playing his fiddle.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Topo said:


> ...And as president, Trump has done nothing helpful. Just playing his fiddle.


Trump didn't create this mess...but now you want him to fix it. I guess that makes perfect sense as the Democrats certainly can't fix it.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump didn't create this mess...but now you want him to fix it.


Yes, because he is the president. I go to the doctor with appendicitis, I expect him/her to fix it, not to tell me "I didn't do this so I'm not going to fix it!"


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Trump has whipped up all of these tensions. It's a good example of how horrible leadership helps destroy a country. I've observed for a long time that Trump is harming America, and now we're seeing some tangible examples.

Trump is partially responsible for the social mood of today. Trump epitomizes the wealthy, *********** structures. He is, quite literally, the fat old white billionaire who works to protect the interests of other rich old white people, showing no concern for the hardships of non-white citizens.

He pretends to show concern for poor whites, but that is of course an act and just part of the Republican play book. If the poor whites catch on that Trump and the Republicans are not really working for them, then the poor whites will also turn on the government.

Trump also pretends to show concern for Christians, but that's also an act (again part of the Republican play book). Mormons have already figured out Trump is a con man, but it will be interesting to see if other Christians catch on.


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

Topo said:


> Yes, because he is the president. I go to the doctor with appendicitis, I expect him/her to fix it, not to tell me "I didn't do this so I'm not going to fix it!"


This would be good anology if you or your friends are not actively sabotaging the efforts of the doctor. 
Today there are pictures circulated of pallets of bricks left at multiple sites to keep the rioting going.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

capricorn said:


> This would be good anology if you or your friends are not actively sabotaging the efforts of the doctor.
> Today there are pictures circulated of pallets of bricks left at multiple sites to keep the rioting going.


Is there anyone sabotaging Trump's efforts to combat racism or police brutality? Do you believe any such effort has been made? Do you think he cares at all? I don't think so. He lives in his own bubble.


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

Topo said:


> Is there anyone sabotaging Trump's efforts to combat racism or police brutality? Do you believe any such effort has been made? Do you think he cares at all? I don't think so. He lives in his own bubble.


I think so. If the Governor is saying that protestors are out of state then they have all the resources to shut it down. Why let the out of state protestors in. Or crack down hard. The state knows how to shut down quick. As they shown during covid-19. Why blame Trump for worsening situation? Sure, he is a loud mouth but not the reason for everything wrong in society.

I do think he cares. Even after multiple prodding by vested interests on all sides he has not started yet another conflict unlike almost every other president in last many decades.


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

capricorn said:


> I think so. If the Governor is saying that protestors are out of state then they have all the resources to shut it down. Why let the out of state protestors in. Or crack down hard. The state knows how to shut down quick. As they shown during covid-19. Why blame Trump for worsening situation? Sure, he is a loud mouth but not the reason for everything wrong in society.


These are all minor details. It is not the main issue.



> Even after multiple prodding by vested interests on all sides he has not started yet another conflict unlike almost every other president in last many decades.


I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment here.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Would anybody care to guess when the Ruling Class will need to admit defeat and answer to the demands of the protesters?

The longer the protests continue, the more bolder the protesters will become.

I think a week at max and the Ruling Class will promise the world just to end the protests.
These protests are bringing the country to it's knees. In a week the Ruling Class will need to take a knee!


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

capricorn said:


> I think so. If the Governor is saying that protestors are out of state then they have all the resources to shut it down.


They are tracking cell phones and know a lot about the people attending these protests.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am hoping that cooler heads prevail and the police don't start using violent tactics, such as has been described in this forum.

If the police do react violently, they will be met with violence and no police officer will be safe in the cities.

There will be a civil war if it gets out of hand. Remember........the people are well armed too.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> It doesn't matter what YOU call Antifa. They have been identified as an alt left terror group. The Nazis were more left wing than right wing....the problem is the left and the media try to convince people otherwise.


Only in conservative fever dreams are Nazis described as left wing.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I remember some attacks on police in Los Angeles a few years ago.

The police were lured into an area and then boxed in by gunfire from different vantage points.

The shooters were military veterans who knew how to set up an ambush. The last thing the US needs is a widespread situation like that.

Trump has to take the kettle off the stove. The water is boiling, the whistle is howling and it is about to boil over.

This is Donald Trump's second Katrina moment, counting the lack of leadership on the COVID pandemic.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

capricorn said:


> I think so. If the Governor is saying that protestors are out of state then they have all the resources to shut it down. Why let the out of state protestors in. Or crack down hard. The state knows how to shut down quick. As they shown during covid-19. Why blame Trump for worsening situation? Sure, he is a loud mouth but not the reason for everything wrong in society.
> 
> I do think he cares. Even after multiple prodding by vested interests on all sides he has not started yet another conflict unlike almost every other president in last many decades.


Are you suggesting they erect borders around the state to control movement?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A reporter was talking with a shop owner, while they looked at his shoe store (looted, emptied and set on fire)... the smoldering ruins of the store.

The shop owner said: "It would have been cheaper if I just gave free shoes to everyone"

Makes you think.


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

andrewf said:


> Are you suggesting they erect borders around the state to control movement?


Nope. Same way they stopped travel to enforce restrictions for covid-19. What PEI is doing.


----------



## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

calm said:


> They are tracking cell phones and know a lot about the people attending these protests.


That is even better. Give an ultimatum for all to leave and pending that track them down and enforce the law. They have no business to be there with all covid-19 restrictions in place.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

james4beach said:


> A reporter was talking with a shop owner, while they looked at his shoe store (looted, emptied and set on fire)... the smoldering ruins of the store.
> 
> The shop owner said: "It would have been cheaper if I just gave free shoes to everyone"
> 
> Makes you think.


Would have been cheaper to buy a gun and fire some warning shots. Many shop owners did this and their stores were fine. 

The police didn't protect them. Makes you think.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

China is enjoying this unrest quite a bit. Maybe the world can back off over their criticism against Hong Kong. Iran is also accusing the US government of setting fire to the vehicles themselves. 

However, I also feel like the scale of this current unrest is overstated compared to some of the massive riots of the 1960s, perhaps due to the rise of camera phones and social media. The summation of every protest in the US in the last two days is likely less than a single civil rights era protest in cities like Detriot in the 1960's.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

An Excellent Interview :

Legitimately stunned that CNN didn’t cut Cornel West’s mic. Maybe someone in the control room was just as enraptured as I am

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266552025740906496


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

[


doctrine said:


> Would have been cheaper to buy a gun and fire some warning shots. Many shop owners did this and their stores were fine.
> 
> The police didn't protect them. Makes you think.


The architects of the scamdemic are hiding behind their paid armies. In the end the power freaks will get their justice as they are hung in streets.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

During the civil unrest of the late 1960's and early '70's, the same kind of "Good Cop - Bad Cop" routine took place.
Black Panther Party leaders kept saying ....... "Negotiate with Martin Luther King or deal with us and more violence"
I kind of admire the looters because it is the looters who are going to force the Ruling Class to negotiate.
It is plain to see that since Ferguson, Peaceful Protest Parades never bring anybody to the negotiating table and changed not one iota.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Fuel truck drives among protesters on I-35 (MN):






This could have been a disaster.

Good news: No one killed. Driver beaten up, but alive and in custody.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)




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## calm (May 26, 2020)




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## calm (May 26, 2020)




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## calm (May 26, 2020)




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## calm (May 26, 2020)




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## calm (May 26, 2020)




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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Nice pics, now show some pics of the thugs and terrorists beating innocent people and looting stores


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)




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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

capricorn said:


> Nope. Same way they stopped travel to enforce restrictions for covid-19. What PEI is doing.


On what grounds? PEI effectively created a border, which is not hard because access is easy to control on an island.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> Nice pics, now show some pics of the thugs and terrorists beating innocent people and looting stores


I post information to express my views.
You can post information which expresses your views.
I am far too busy to post both our views.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266898396339675137


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

calm said:


> I post information to express my views.
> You can post information which expresses your views.
> I am far too busy to post both our views.


89 post in 6 days does show Calm is busy. He/She could be less busy if he/she stopped posting here.
Personally, I am putting Calm on ignore. Others can do same by clicking on his/her name and then on ignore. Poof - no need to read any more of the diatribes. Alternatively, he/she could do the right thing, move on and stop ruining this forum.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Minneapolis police rendered 44 people unconscious with neck restraints in five years
The Minnesota police data showed three-fifths of those subjected to neck restraints and then rendered unconscious were black.
----
Since the beginning of 2015, officers from the Minneapolis Police Department have rendered people unconscious with neck restraints 44 times, according to an NBC News analysis of police records.
Minneapolis police used neck restraints at least 237 times during that span, and in 16 percent of the incidents the suspects and other individuals lost consciousness, the department's use-of-force records show.
----








Minneapolis police made 44 people unconscious with neck restraints


Several police experts said that number appears to be unusually high. "By using this tactic, it's a self-fulfilling tragedy," said one.




www.nbcnews.com


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

agent99 said:


> 89 post in 6 days does show you are busy. You could be less busy if you eliminated all your posting here.


I would think that the owners of this website are quite thankful that I am contributing.
It is contributions that show up in a Google search and refer people to this website.


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

andrewf said:


> On what grounds? PEI effectively created a border, which is not hard because access is easy to control on an island.


I do not have answer to logistics. It is my assumption that resources and mechanics of enforcing the lockdown are not an issue. The lack of intent is the issue. Based on the statements from leaders of these cities I get the impression that they want this to worsen. I might be seeing from biased view.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

"I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return"
–W.H. Auden–








Alice's Adventures in Wonderland - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





A poor black person committed a crime and tried to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. 20 bucks! He never mugged anybody.

20 bucks is like a grain of sand considering just how much sand the Economic Terrorists on Wall Street robbed.

The U.S. Capitalists are being held hostage to the demands of the protesters and they are terrified..

It was only 2 months ago that the U.S. Capitalists held the poor folks hostage and for ransom and demanded a bailout and insisted that the Poor Folks (and their great children) pay for it in taxes.

The Economic Terrorists stole a lot more than $20.00 . The Upper Class stole trillions and the lower class each got 17 bucks a day for 3 months.

Today ..... we are watching Poor Folks holding the Rich Folks hostage.

Poor Folks have "Demands" just like the Economic Terrorists" had just two weeks ago.

It is going to cost the U.S. Capitalists just a bit more than the 20 bucks.

I was 20 years old when Martin Luther King died.

I think the riots lasted about 8 days, if I remember correctly.

In America ......Just after the depression 1933

Franklin Delano Roosevelt did not introduce the "New Deal" because it was "Kind To Animal Week".
There were huge protests and threats/plots to take over the Whitehouse.
"And, it didn't happen because FDR was a great guy. It happened because people in this country were so radicalized, were so determined, were so organized, that he was able to sell the new deal to the elites as a compromise because the alternative was revolution."
--Naomi Klein, National Conference for Media reform, June 07, 2008--
Bonus Army - Wikipedia

Bonus Army - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org

1933 - Europe
Pawn shops were burned to the ground. And anybody who even smelled of wealth was terrified.

In early 1933, Hitler was not the undisputed leader of Germany, nor did he have full command of the armed forces. Hitler was a major figure in a coalition government, but he was far from being the government himself. That was the result of a process of consolidation which evolved later.
Exact same thing is happening today (social unrest) and Hitler is long dead. So, it is not about Hitler.
When pawn shops were burned and the most well educated attacked ......
Samuel Untermye encouraged a boycott of German products on March 12, 1933. A mere 3 years into Great Depression or after the crash of 1929. "Holy War" is the exact term used by Samuel Untermyer at the time.
Samuel Untermyer - Wikipedia

1933 ..... In Russia

During the bitter winter of 1932–33, 25,000 Ukrainians per day were being shot or dying of starvation and cold.

In 1932–33, Stalin unleashed genocide against Ukraine’s independent-minded farmers. Six to seven million Ukrainians were shot or purposely starved to death. Starving Ukrainians even resorted to cannibalism. The man who directed this genocide, Lazar Kaganovitch, the Soviet Eichmann ....








Lazar Kaganovich - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org












Yakov Sverdlov - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





From 1934–1941 alone, some 7 million victims were sent to the system of concentration camps known as the "gulag," including one million Poles, hundreds of thousands Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians, and half the entire Muslim Chechen and Ingush people. Volga Germans, Crimean Tatars, Bashkirs, Kalmyks followed. Stalin’s gulag did not need gas chambers: cold, disease and overwork killed 30% of inmates yearly.

The souls of Stalin's millions of victims still cry out for justice.


https://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3342999,00.html


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

capricorn said:


> I do not have answer to logistics. It is my assumption that resources and mechanics of enforcing the lockdown are not an issue. The lack of intent is the issue. Based on the statements from leaders of these cities I get the impression that they want this to worsen. I might be seeing from biased view.


Freedom of movement is protected. Any curtailment of that right needs to be well justified. Pre-emptively stopping all border crossings to keep out potential protesters is not likely to meet that test. Preventing the spread of a pandemic is (but will likely be challenged in courts anyway).


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

calm said:


> A poor black person committed a crime and tried to pass a counterfeit 20 dollar bill. 20 bucks! He never mugged anybody.


Indeed, it was a non-violent crime that he allegedly committed. Even if it was violent, he was subdued and apparently compliant. Nothing would have justified summary execution/murder on the street--he did not present a threat.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Look at how much class and how much forgiveness that these minorities have.

It that was a video of Osama Bin Laden strangling George Floyd, the country would of went to war to seek revenge.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The Ruling class are getting all the ducks in order .....

Appointed special prosecutor this morning.
Medical examiner called it a homicide.
New prosecutor will up the charge of murder.
Everybody will cheer "Black Lives Matter".

And we will all be reminded that the protesters need to be grateful.
They could of brought in the 21st airborne.
Thanks Be To God!


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

ya wonder just how much of this was going on, all the time...that didn't happen to be captured on someone's cellphone...


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> Look at how much class and how much forgiveness that these minorities have.


Yup...it takes a lot of class to loot, commit arson, and to beat innocent people senseless.



> It that was a video of Osama Bin Laden strangling George Floyd, the country would of went to war to seek revenge.


Justine Diamond. Look her up... the media and Obama were completely silent after she was murdered by a cop. Selective outrage as always. Only some deaths matter...the ones they can use to promote their agenda. The same useful idiots fall for it every time and don't even know they're being played.

And, it's would "have" not would "of". If English is your second language I apologize.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I could care less who is president.
They are all the same.
Only difference might be is that Trump gets his campaign money from Real Estate Folks and Nancy Pelosi and The Clowns get financed by the banking sector.
There should be public financing of elections and Cash is not Free Speech.
All the inequality and the Supreme court says it just fine.
Just look at what both political parties have done. It is a charade.
Police should be forced to live in the community they serve.
Police should not be allowed to work for any private company during the time they are employed as community police.
Police should not be allowed to strike and hold the community up to ransom and wage/benefit increases.
Police union contracts should be made public and including all the addendums.
The same police that beg people to call Crime Stoppers and rat out their neighbours are the same folks who refuse to rat-out one of their own.

For years and years police unions have thratened both politicians and citizens with the withdrawal of services if their demands are not met ...... and today they would beat a citizen who holds the community hostage just like the unionized cops did.

Just 2 months ago the Economic Terrorists on Wall Street held the communities across this country as hostage and demanded a bailout. That threat by Wall Street to shut down the economy if they were not all made whole again, was much more violent then a few protesters.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

whats with all the back packs?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Peaceful protestors in Richmond, Virginia set fire to a house with a child inside and then blocked firefighters access. They had to force their way in.

I wonder how long the alt left on this site will continue to defend terrorists who try to burn children to death.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

jargey3000 said:


> whats with all the back packs?


Professional protestors. It's part of their uniform.

ltr


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267021503100522497

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267520788476956674


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Trump has drawn the line in the sand. This may come to define his presidency.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

It is ironic ..... The cops and fire department put the citizens up against the wall and threaten to abandon the community and let the fires burn and/or ignore the crime unless the citizen meets the demands of cops union ......
They are so good at these threats and done so often, is quite plain when you review their union contracts and all the addendums.
Today the protesters are holding the community up for ransom in the same way as the cops do.


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

wait....oh, he got a bible in his hands...a holy bible....oh, I see...what a great guy!
All is forgiven!


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Just when you yhought the left couldn't make themselves look any worse, Biden and his people and a bunch of Hollywood celebrities are bailing terrorists out of jail and bragging about it.

Yes, they really are that stupid.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Yeh!!! They are that stupid.
And they just agreed to give the State of Israel 38 billion dollars but can't afford to help out American citizens.




__





israel + personal wealth - Google Search






www.google.com












Senate Approves $38 Billion for Israel Amid Historic Economic Downturn


The Senate Foreign Relations Committee quietly passed a bill yesterday to give Israel a minimum of $38 billion over the next ten years.




www.mintpressnews.com


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Prairie Guy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267021503100522497
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267520788476956674


Love the misinformation. 

For the first twitter picture, matthew kaskavitch (the source of the picture), followed up with the fact that the bricks were left over from the mall's landscaping project: https://twitter.com/search?q=matthew kaskavitch&src=typed_query&f=live

For the second twitter picture, they were part of an HOA project as reported by a reporter:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267568508910608384
Amazing what you can find when you just take a second to go to the twitter source and actually look for the answers.

Of course, for the intellectually lazy, it's easier to just find an explanation that fits their worldview.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Riots May Be Destructive, But Abusive Policing Is Tyranny
"Rioting is a form of tyranny," Tucker Carlson said on his Fox News show. He's wrong.
By J.D. Tuccille
June 01, 2020








Riots May Be Destructive, but Abusive Policing Is Tyranny


"Rioting is a form of tyranny," Tucker Carlson said on his Fox News show. He's wrong.




reason.com





I thought that the introduction and the rant about being a policeman was pretty good. The stuff about infiltrators does not interest me. It is just a distracton.

Did Protesters Identify Police Infiltrator Breaking Windows?
The Jimmy Dore Show
Host Jimmy Dore
May 30, 2020




__





Watch – Jimmy Dore Comedy







jimmydorecomedy.com




(YouTube Video)


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

bgc_fan said:


> Of course, for the intellectually lazy, it's easier to just find an explanation that fits their worldview.


No, the conspiracy just goes that deep. The lizardpeople run the HOA too.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> No, the conspiracy just goes that deep. The lizardpeople run the HOA too.


😱 Of course... that explains why they are always concerned about having a nice manicured lawn... they need the lawn like that so they can blend into the surroundings when they take off their disguises. Ingenious.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

It is very important to have the narrative say that the riots are because of police brutality.
When they charge the other 3 officers, the Ruling Class will claim that the protesters have no more reason to protest.

It just can't be Class Warfare.
It just can;t be years of inequality.

It is all about racism and the colour of your skin and not the contents of your wallet.

It just can't be with the latest bank bailout, they saw the unfairness and the greed.
America is just just too perfect a system for it to be anything else.

Every politician claims "American's Are Smarter Than That".

And now they want us to believce that whole country got stupidly angry and continue to be angry because some guy got killed by the police.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

calm said:


> It is very important to have the narrative say that the riots are because of police brutality.
> When they charge the other 3 officers, the Ruling Class will claim that the protesters have no more reason to protest.
> 
> It just can't be Class Warfare.
> ...


Civil Unrest Turning Violent on Schedule | Armstrong Economics


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Is it Time to Throw Every Politician Out of Office Who Imposed Lockdowns? | Armstrong Economics

No wonder the people are up rising


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> Trump also pretends to show concern for Christians, but that's also an act (again part of the Republican play book). Mormons have already figured out Trump is a con man, but it will be interesting to see if other Christians catch on.


We had a good example of this today. Trump used a DC area Church as a prop in one of his appearances. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde (responsible for the region) as well as the head of that particular church, both commented that this was a shocking move by Trump: using the church as a prop. No prior coordination with the church, no permission.

On the news segment I saw, the Bishop can barely find words to describe her outrage at what Trump did.

Trump tries to exploit people with Christian faith. He carried a Bible and posed in front of the church, as a prop.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Trump went to church. Cue the outrage.

Biden bails out terrorists. Pretend it never happened.

The left on this site become more unhinged every day.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> On the news segment I saw, the Bishop can barely find words to describe her outrage at what Trump did.


And she was so upset that she couldn't find the words to express outrage at the rioters who torched and vandalized the church.

She's more upset that Trump went to church than she is at the people that torched it. What a pathetic loser.


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

*delete*


----------



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump went to church. Cue the outrage.
> 
> Biden bails out terrorists. Pretend it never happened.
> 
> The left on this site become more unhinged every day.


Trump 'went to church'? Do you actually believe that? Did you do any research at all before making that statement?

Trump did not 'got to church' as in attend a church service. He went and stood in front of a church holding a borrowed bible, as a PHOTO OP. He didn't even have enough sense to at least pretend to pray when he was there.








Donald Trump, a Bible, and blasphemy - Macleans.ca


Michael Coren: The U.S. president had peaceful protestors tear-gassed so he could pose at a church holding a book that roars love, peace and justice




www.macleans.ca





Have you no sense of how wrong it is Prairie Guy to USE a church for attempted political gain in that way.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> View attachment 20208


 ... the uncanniness.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

There is a whole history of decades of protests, even riots, and things keep getting worse. Why is that? Are the infiltrators and agents provocateurs successful in their goal of changing the subject?


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1267689319843590146


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The sign at the church read......Sunday services online.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump likes to quote from the Corinthian books of the Bible.

As he said in a speech at Liberty University......._.“Two Corinthians, 3:17, that’s the whole ballgame_. (Actually it is _Second_ Corinthians but whatever)

Judging by where the bookmark lay in the Bible, I think this was the passage he had marked for the photo op.

_No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.......Corinthians 2 : 11_

Yup, that is Donald Trump's "whole ballgame" right there.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Will Urban Uprisings Help Trump? Actually, They Could Be His Undoing.
As a historian, I’ve spent a lot of time looking at the fallout from Watts and other rebellions. 
By Rick Perlstein
May 31, 2020








Will urban uprisings help Trump? Actually, they could be his undoing.


As a historian, I've spent a lot of time looking at the fallout from Watts and other rebellions.




www.motherjones.com





The Original ‘Antifa’ Was A Jewish Anti-Nazi Militia
By Mark B. Williams
August 24, 2017








The Original ‘Antifa’ Was A Jewish Anti-Nazi Militia


While watching the recent events in Charlottesville, Virginia – the violence that erupted between marching neo-Nazis and Antifa protesters – I can’t help but think back to what was the original “Antifa”, a group of Jews, whom my father told me about from his childhood, growing up as a poor...




forward.com





Words We're Watching: 'Antifa'
What it means, where it comes from, and how to say it
November 2017








Words We're Watching: 'Antifa'


What it means, where it comes from, and how to say it




www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Longtimeago said:


> Have you no sense of how wrong it is Prairie Guy to USE a church for attempted political gain in that way.


All politicians take photo ops. Obama used black thugs as props to promote racism for political gain and lied about Trayvon Martin on TV. But I guess that's different...


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

When prosecutors are running for the position, do yuh think that the local and community police unions representing rank and file police officers, sheriffs’ deputies, and correctional officers are allowed to contribute to the campaign?
Do you think that the law office and attorneys representing accused officers are allowed to contribute to the campaign?


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Antifa are mostly just agitators who want to be able to engage in anonymous criminality, or want society to burn. I agree with giving them no quarter. They should be rounded up, arrested and charged as appropriate.

The vast majority of protesters have nothing to do with antifa. Antifa is merely taking advantage of legitimate protest as cover for their agenda.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I really don't care to argue about what group/tactic or the attitude of the individuals protesting.
What difference does it really make?

It is a Class War in the "Land Of The Puppet People".
It is all about anger and resentment.

I think that many of the rioters are middle class because poor people have never enjoyed the American Dream.

But those of the middle class who once enjoyed success and the American Dream ..... And then to have lost it, are insanely angry and striking back.

And, it is being sold to us as being Racism in order to divide the population.

Divide and Conquer is the tactic of the Ruling Class.

When citizens are busy fighting amongst themelves, they are too busy to confront the Capitalists.

The U.S. Capitalists are terrified of being strung up on lamp posts, out behind some gas station, or in some sinister dark alley.

"Get off this estate."
"What for?"
"Because it's mine."
"Where did you get it?"
"From my father."
"Where did he get it?"
"From his father."
"And where did he get it?"
"He fought for it."
"Well, I'll fight you for it."
--Carl Sandburg--


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

"the American police system originated from slave patrols, which turned the streets of towns into patrol routes for what was a quasi-military force. From its earliest days the American model was a racist tactic to protect the higher class people from the downtrodden and oppressed. The numbers don’t lie. The system has not largely changed since those early days." 








Our Enemies in Blue


“Should become mandatory reading for all police academy students.”—Damon Woodcock (Ret.), Portland, Oregon, Police Bureau “A well-resear...



www.goodreads.com


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

American history is dark and dismal. They should start over again. A more socialist ideology would be a good place to start.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The Real Looting Of America CNN Won’t Show You.
Comment:
"When you've lost your job, running out of $$$ and your life savings are dwindling to the red,. When your behind on you're rent or mortgage, struggling to pay all your household bills. When you're collecting the loose change to go to the grocery store to buy food for your family or gas for your car. Ect..... you know its time to stop paying your taxes. What's the point?
Why? Because our politicians haven't been working for us and they seem to becoming more wealth along w/ their corporate friends and raping we the minions of what little we have left". 
The Jimmy Dore Show
Host Jimmy Dore interviews Chris Hedges
May 31, 2020




__





Watch – Jimmy Dore Comedy







jimmydorecomedy.com












Chris Hedges - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




(YouTube Video)


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Twitter shuts down fake Antifa account linked to white nationalists, misinformation tied to George Floyd protests spreads


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

bgc_fan said:


> Twitter shuts down fake Antifa account linked to white nationalists, misinformation tied to George Floyd protests spreads


Twitter fact checks Trump, The fact checks can not be trusted. Yet Twitter fails to fact check WHO, CDC, Gates, Fauci the leaders of the fake plandemic scamdemic


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

:) lonewolf said:


> Twitter fact checks Trump, The fact checks can not be trusted. Yet Twitter fails to fact check WHO, CDC, Gates, Fauci the leaders of the fake plandemic scamdemic


Not sure why you should care about Twitter spreading conspiracies, you already have your non-mainstream sources for that. Maybe you should just keep to those.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The Sh?t disturbers are "Outsiders"

The Police Are The Out-Of-Towners Provoking Violence
By Eric Murphy 
June 03, 2020








The Police Are The Out-Of-Towners Provoking Violence


Since protests of the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis began on May 26, authorities at every level have blamed “outsiders” for provoking




www.counterpunch.org


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

In 1982, I got laid off from a job as a mechanical technician. I was married with a year old child and by coincidence my wife was in the hospital having our second child when the layoff happened.

I needed to find a job really fast, but there were about a million other people looking too. I needed to stand out among other applicants. I did not have the funds to buy Employment Wanted advertising.

I sent a telegram to Elliot Trudeau. The same guy who gave every Canadian citizen the middle finger while visiting Salmon Arm, British Columbia in 1979.

In the Telegram, I explained to Prime Minister Trudeau that I had just been laid off from my job.
I stated that there is no doubt that if I had done my job half as bad as the Prime Minister had done his, that I would of been fired and not simply laid off.

I told Trudeau that I would like him to tell my children why I found it impossible to feed them. I told him that I intended to travel to Ottawa and confront him. I scheduled an exact date of my arrival.

I then picked up the phone and called the Toronto Star to advise them about the telegram. Within 2 hours they had a photographer at my doorway. The following morning there were 11 television crews lined up in my apartment building hallway.

Barbara Frum from CBC (The Journal) did her best to discredit me, and asked me, "What would make you use your kids in this manner?"

A week after my wife had been released from the hospital with our new born child, me and my family began the trip to Ottawa. City TV followed us all the way down the 401.

I turned up on the Front Steps of Parliament Hill just before Question Period began. I quickly read my prepared statement and immediately left. I did not want to see Mr. Trudeau. I suspected that he would arrive and pick up one of my children into his arms and everybody in TV-Land would of praised and admired the Prime Minister.

I raced to a taxi and was gone. The radio claimed that Trudeau had stood in the same place I had been, but just 5 minutes later.

The next day I had three offers for a job.

-------------------
In 1968, I was in Trenton, Ontario looking for employment. I did not have money to go and place a newspaper advertisement, so I just mailed my advertisement to the Belleville newspaper.

*EMPLOYMENT WANTED

I came to Trenton, not long ago.
A city as small as small can go.
Now it is morning and soon comes noon,
To find employment, had better be soon.
I have been to welfare to gain their consent;
I thank them for 20 dollars and 50 cents.
I am young and also strong,
I know the difference of right and wrong.
But, must I lie or steal and cheat?
To pay for a bed with clean white sheets?
Is there no one to help a young man?
Is there no one to lend me their hand?
While being ambitious and willing to work,
For a dollar an hour, possibly clerk?

To your equal of an opportunity of employment;
I seek employment with an opportunity.*

I had 22 offers of hire. One woman from Belleville wrote me a note and said that although she could not offer me a job, she could offer me a bed with clean white sheets.

When I visited the newspaper to pay for the advertisement, the editor refused to take my money. He said in all his time working in news media, he had never seen a poem under Employment Wanted.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

@calm Nice story, but not quite sure what your point is or how your employment relates to the riots/protests.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Plugging Along said:


> @calm Nice story, but not quite sure what your point is or how your employment relates to the riots/protests.


Oh! I think I follow these riots from a different viewpoint ....
I see 40 million unemployed people protesting.
I don't think it is about Racism.
The media is selling it to us as Racism and not a Class War.

40 million people need a job.
In contrast, I was just posting how I protested when I needed a job.
I did not riot.
If management asked me to delete the post, I would do it immediately.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

calm said:


> I see 40 million unemployed people protesting.
> I don't think it is about Racism.
> The media is selling it to us as Racism and not a Class War.


I also don't think it's about racism.

I think it's an uprising of the poor. This is disproportionately black people, but many white people are also poor. In both cases they are irrelevant in the modern economy. They will be stuck with sky high unemployment (perhaps for the rest of their lives) and they are, justifiably, very angry.

Angry, disillusioned, unemployed people who recognize they have *no future* do not tend to sit and act calmly. Yes they will do wild and irrational things.

When I was living in the US a year ago, I had a neighbour who was a middle aged man. He had been laid off and was unable to find any new job. Realistically I could tell from his age that he will never work again, unless he's willing to downgrade to a Walmart greeter or something like that.

I recently learned that he had been evicted, had been living out of his car for months. Recently, he took a bunch of pills and killed himself. His body was found in his car, in the parkade of the building he was evicted from.

In America, suicide and pill abuse is rapidly becoming one of the leading causes of death, in the same cluster of things like heart & stroke.

Here's why I mentioned my ex neighbour who killed himself with pills. One should not expect younger men (like in their 20s and 30s) to go quite so calmly and quietly. IMO these are the people who will rise up, and do everything they can, especially when they have the numbers (which they do).

*The economy has left these people behind and has no need for them going forward*. This is a huge problem. The Federal Reserve prints $4 trillion of new money, the US government gives billions of $ to business, and none of this will employ these disadvantaged poor people.

It may be time to seriously look at some alternate wealth division methods like giving members of lower socioeconomic classes significant stock holdings in the stock index. This is a concept I pitched, somewhat as a joke, several years ago.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

james4beach said:


> I also don't think it's about racism
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


I read somewhere that we can expect only 60 percent of the lost jobs to return
That means when I look out my window towards the apartment building across the street, I would know and realize that 4 out of every 10 apartments will have a tenant who is pissed off and desperate.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

calm said:


> I read somewhere that we can expect only 60 percent of the lost jobs to return
> That means when I look out my window towards the apartment building across the street, I would know and realize that 4 out of every 10 apartments will have a tenant who is pissed off and desperate.


I didn't realize this when I was younger, but now I see that many people need some kind of job to add structure to their lives. Otherwise they really just sit at home and drink. Or get depressed and develop bad habits, which in turn creates negative costs for society (health problems & crime).

I think it's time to end all the pretense. The corporate world couldn't do it, so government needs to somehow create jobs for people... even meaningless jobs. I'm talking about the USA here where the situation is more desperate.

Somehow, jobs -- even stupid ones -- need to be created. The combination of _jobs to go work in_, plus extra money (either Federal Reserve money printing or perhaps an S&P 500 public participation system) could go a long way to smoothing over the situation.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The U.S. Capitalists saw this economic collapse happening a long long time ago.

It was Bill Clinton who first introduced what we now know to be the Patriot Act and it was Bill Clinton who appointed a “domestic military czar”.
Presidential Decision Directive 62, Protection Against Unconventional Threats to the Homeland and Overseas, dated May 1998.




__





PDD-62 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





The U.S. government has a ton of futurists working and calculating the financial status of the country.

Just as Britain knew well in advance of it’s decline as a world economic power in 1870 and which did not occur till immediately after World War One, the American’s know too that the writing is on the wall as China takes it’s place upon the world stage.

The United States was not called a “Great Power” until about 1892.

After the Napoleonic Wars in Europe, (1814-15) there was no power on earth which was greater than the British Empire. “As good as Sterling” was the same as the U.S. dollar or “Greenback” is today. Around 1850, is when the British Empire began it’s decline.

Britain introduced Free Trade and allowed (encouraged) the Capitalists to move their wealth out of England and abandoned the British Empire. British wealth financed the industrialization of America just like what is now happening in China.

An Empire Like No Other
National Review
September 1st, 2003


olimu.com



Just as America is doing now, from 1883 to 1913, Britain increased its dependence on imported goods following the introduction of free trade.

About 1870 the German Reich emerged as a new economic player on the map of Continental Europe in the same way that China is doing so at this moment in time. In August 1914, Britain declared war against Germany in an attempt to stop the development of Germany’s economy which was a threat to British hegemony.
Immediately following the end of World War I, Britain collapsed as an “Economic Power” and America became the dominant world power. The Balfour agreement (1917) initiated by the British and giving the Jewish Folks a home in Palestine was in return for Jewish Banking assistance during World War I. Britain’s World War II costs were financed by American banks and Britain did not complete repayment of these American loans until December 2006.

The U.S. - Canada border must be locked down. There will be too many Canadians trying to get to a warmer climate and can't afford heating fuel. In addition, Canadians will want to travel South where fruits and food is growing.

The media is broadcasting “Religious” themed shows because the establishment is trying to sell the Poor Folks a conscience.

The only reason that poor folks did not riot after the 2007 Economic Terrorist bailout was because the visible minorities did not want to destroy the first black president.

All the anti-terror legislation was introduced in order to be prepared for the oncoming collapse of empire.

My only hang-up with the anti-terror legislation is that if they can't find a bale of Mary-Do-Yuh-Wanna (millions of bales) being transported across Canada, then how are they gonna find a terrorist? I would think that a terrorist does hot smell half as bad as a bale of marijuana.

Why would you put more than 900 thousand on a no fly list?
The No-Fly list is to prevent the movement of "Professional" protest organizers. Why would anyone who qualified for the No-Fly list still be allowed to drive a car? One would think that if the threat was great enough to be placed upon the No-Fly list that the individual should be arrested immediately.

The Ruling Class must be able to fly without being harassed. They are given their own special boarding passes and special lines and special lounge areas at the airport. The Airports are being given huge attention because in the future business people and anybody who even smells of wealth will need special protections and priority as they travel.

Why would you continue to allow the most dangerous chemicals to be transported on freight rail tracks which pass through the center of every city in North America?

And if the truth be realized, there is more of a threat with the transportation of hazardous materials within tank cars on the railways then any airport. Every tank car on the train is a potential WMD. 90-ton rail tankers filled with deadly chemicals and other hazardous materials roll slowly through our major cities every day over unprotected and unguarded rails, with no warning to those communities, and we are worried about some airplane. An assault on a chlorine tanker could create a toxic cloud extending up to 15 miles. It is estimated that up to 100,000 people could be killed or injured in less than a half-hour by such an attack.

For the past 20 years, the Upper Class have collected every tiny bit of information about every individual.
If they have a photo of you participating in a protest, they will find your identity with facial regognition.
They will know all your aquaintances and will arrest them in order to press them to become an informant.

Believe me ,,,,, they knew the generational storm was on the horizon as far back as 1980 when Ronnie Ray-Gun introduced Free Trade.

They passed all the anti-terror legislation because the Ruling Class set out to walk away from all the promises made to the working class since the end of WWII. The U.S. Capitalists even walked away and bankrupted the employee pension plans and the government had to pay them because it was the government who insured them.

The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know about America’s Economic Future
What You Need to Know about America’s Economic Future
A word of advice to baby boomers: be very kind to your children. They will quite likely be paying a steep price for your happy golden years. Laurence Kotlikoff says the future is dark indeed for the Social Security system. The fiscal gap between what the federal government expects to take in and what it pays out is so big that the Treasury Department had to censor the number in the federal budget. Kotlikoff’s current figure: $51 trillion. Today’s payouts to retirees for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have already broken the bank, and future expenditures will take us right into an economic catastrophe, says Kotlikoff. Why? Because today there are 33 million people over 65 receiving an average annual Social Security payment of $23k — but in four years there will be 77 million seniors collecting. The equation involves demographics and money: a predominantly old population with extended lifespan requires benefits that far exceed the capacity of young workers to pay for them. And please don’t mention the spiraling costs of health care. Kotlikoff blasts the Bush and Clinton administrations for negligence and cover-ups, and says he doesn’t “see a way out of our fiscal system melting down short of doing something immediately.”
By Laurence J. Kotlikoff
April 28, 2004


http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/202



A National Debt Of $14 Trillion? Try $211 Trillion
NPR - All Things Considered
Host David Greene interviews Laurence Jacob Kotlikoff
August 06, 2011
Transcript:








A National Debt Of $14 Trillion? Try $211 Trillion


The Treasury Department puts the national debt at more than $14 trillion. Laurence Kotlikoff, one of President Reagan's former economic advisers, says that's just the tip of the iceberg.




www.npr.org




A National Debt Of $14 Trillion? Try $211 Trillion

Unfunded Liabilities
-- $13.9 trillion for Social Security;
-- $18.4 trillion for prescription drugs
-- $73.3 trillion for Medicare/Medicaid
Total: $105.7 trillion.


http://www.usdebtclock.org




http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2009/10/obamacare-targets-entitlements.html


--Stephen Lendman, Obamacare Targets Entitlements, October 21, 2009--

U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions
Medicare: $24.8 trillion
Obligation per household: $212,500
-----
Social Security: $21.4 trillion
Obligation per household: $183,400
-----
Federal debt: $9.4 trillion
Obligation per household: $79,900
----
Military retirement/disability benefits: $3.6 trillion
Obligation per household: $31,200
----
Federal employee retirement benefits: $2 trillion
Obligation per household: $17,000
----
State, local government obligations: $5.2 trillion
Obligation per household: $44,800
--Dennis Cauchon, U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions, June 06, 2011--








Government's mountain of debt - USATODAY.com


Medicare, Social Security, other programs gathering ever deeper red ink...



www.usatoday.com





The $1.3 trillion budget deficit would be $4.2 trillion if the change in the current cost of Social Security and Medicare promises during fiscal 2011 were included.
The typical U.S. household has been promised retirement payments totaling $1.2 million, more than 1,200 percent of its median net worth of $96,000.
The current costs of Medicare and Social Security total $33.8 trillion, which is more than 1,400 percent of the federal government’s 2011 revenue.
--Bryan R. Lawrence, The trillions the government doesn’t account for, March 01, 2012--
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-account-for/2012/02/17/gIQABgdZlR_story.html

I have plenty more to add but I don't want to bore yuh!


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

An important thing to understand is that Free Trade is not about jobs. Never was.

Free Trade allowed the Capitalists to move their wealth off shore and not be subjected to the legalities of walking away from all the promises made to the working class without being sued.

Oh! I remember here in Canada and where Mulroney and The Clowns kept chastising Canadians for even thinking or being fearful of not being smart enough to compete against China.

What was not said is that within the Free Trade Agreement there was no hard and fast rule concerning the currency manipulations. Nothing was written in stone.

There is no such thing as Free Trade because it does not control or disallow the devaluation of currencies.

The more competitive North America would become, the more devaluation of competing currencies.

In North America, we could all agree to work for a dollar per hour and only to find that China will do it for 50 cents. The huge and "Modern" manufacturing plants which the U.S. Capitalists financed and built in China can satisfy the American market with just what falls off the assembly lines.

The largest U.S. cereal maker had a manufacturing plant in Toronto Canada.

NAFTA changed the import rules in Canada and where products containing flour and other grains (breakfast cereals) were no longer required to contain Canadian produce.

I read the inter-office memo which detailed the plans for the company to leave Canada and it was written in stone. The American Capitalists set out to shut down and sell off all company assets in Canada and only needed to show that the cost of manufacturing the cereal in Canada was too high and not competitive in order to comply with NAFTA.

Immediately; all top Canadian born executives were given promotions/transfers to Milwaukee and were replaced with American talent.

In 1993, the union began to negotiate a new labor contract and the company deliberately took a very hard line on wage increases, but agreed to build an employee cafeteria, upgrade car parking areas and to invest millions into upgrading equipment already in place, and to introduce a new cereal baking formula or method which was quite revolutionary.

The employees did not see it happening because they thought that no company would be investing so much into plant upgrades and especially new manufacturing equipment if they intended to leave. The complete plant was painted, landscaping completed and brightly painted/lighted parking spots and all new cleaning and maintenance equipment purchased.

By spending millions on building upgrades and on plant equipment, the company was able to show that the cost of producing cereal in Canada as compared to the U.S. was quite prohibitive.

Within 3 years the company was gone.

All the upgrades and complete makeover made to plant facilities increased the actual value and made it easier the company to find a buyer.

The new manufacturing equipment had only been bolted to the floor and were easily packed up and shipped to Milwaukee.
-----
There was no Federal Deficit when Ronnie Ray-Gun signed onto Free Trade.

As the capitalists abandoned North America, the Ruling Class began to run defficits to disguise the damage being done to the economy.

The U.S. Federal debt was $1.142 trillion in 1982.
When George W. Bush took office in 2001, the U.S. debt stood at $5.6 trillion.
The 2009 budget plan calls for raising the ceiling to $15 trillion.
Today it is about 25 Trillion dollars.

A Beggar-Thy-Neighbor Policy.
Dick Armey laughed aloud when he said "If somebody wants to sell us something and accept a piece of paper in return, who are we to say "No"?








Dick Armey - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




----
Canada keeps bragging about how our bank deposits are insured.
The question to be asked is just how long does the government have to make you whole again? In America it is 20 years.
In the U.S., The FDIC insurance covers deposits up to $250,000, but the FDIC fund had only $67.6 billion in it as of June 30, 2015, insuring about $6.35 trillion in deposits.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

The first time I visited Florida (99-2000?) I was shocked to see vacant movie theastres and malls with 75% vacancy. Gulf coast....seminole, largo area.
I figured it was temporary because I had never seen such vacancy in Canada.

i was doubly shocked that as I travelled there each successive year, the vacancies remained and got worse.....an entire mall shut down and was demolished.

I think the ease of obtaining capital and the ease of walking Away contributed to it all.

its such a shame. A country with good natural resources, a diverse work force, a history of innovation....how they let it get to this. My friend married an American....I try to pick her brain to understand the “US thinking”. It’s VERY clear they are raised to believe that they are the best at everything. I bring up violent crime rates, racism, math and science scores, life expectancy......she seems not to believe any evidence and is committed to USA, USA!

The history of America from 1941 to now is simply fascinating to me.....I’d love to find some good books that detail and explain it...(I don’t do tablet reading).


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

$12 Trillion or $211 Trillion, as Peter Schiff told a business audience........do you seriously think the US is going to cut all spending so they can pay back China ?

How far away is Trump right now from telling China.......we won't be paying you back anymore ?

The economic reset won't come now, because of some protests and riots. It isn't the wealthy neighborhoods that are getting torn apart.

It will come when countries like the US default on their debt. A new economy will be forced upon the world.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

When Nixon went off the gold standard it was a default.
America never intended to pay their debt. They intend to inflate their way out of debt.
Any country which may want to have a gold backed currency or to sell their goods for gold will be nuked.


----------



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Re the protests...has anyone made an observation that perhaps at least part of the reason there are such large crowds is that we're in the midst of a pandemics, most places where people normally go are locked down...there isn't a lot else to do...?
I'm just asking a question here.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I am sure you are right Jargey. Same as when beaches were opened. It provided an outlet after being isolated for so long. Not to say though that those protestors don't believe in the cause. There is a lot wrong and it is ingrained.
It will be interesting to see how covid cases change. This is much worse than a pool party.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Either the protesters are so angry that they are willing to ignore the distancing rule and maybe put their lives at risk.... their family at risk ......

Or they don't have much respect, confidence or trust in their government and thus would refuse to believe the virus science,

Each scenario does not bode well for the future.

Don’t understand the protests? What you’re seeing is people pushed to the edge
But African Americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. Racism in America is like dust in the air. It seems invisible — even if you’re choking on it — until you let the sun in. Then you see it’s everywhere. As long as we keep shining that light, we have a chance of cleaning it wherever it lands. But we have to stay vigilant, because it’s always still in the air.
By Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
May 30, 2020








Op-Ed: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Don't understand the protests? What you're seeing is people pushed to the edge


The main concern of black people right now isn’t whether they’re standing three or six feet apart, but whether their sons, husbands, brothers and fathers will be murdered by cops.




www.latimes.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

What we need is more Deferred Prosecutions.

When George Floyd was first arrested he should of been given a deferred prosecution.
He should of been allowed to say I am sorry and then can we just move along.





Deferred prosecution - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## alexincash (May 27, 2020)

sags said:


> American history is dark and dismal. They should start over again. A more socialist ideology would be a good place to start.


All major reforms begin with civil unrest


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

They knew each other .....

A former club owner in south Minneapolis says the now-fired police officer and the black man who died in his custody this week both worked security for her club up to the end of last year.
By Ana Lastra and Eric Rasmussen
May 28, 2020


https://kstp.com/news/george-floyd-fired-officer-overlapped-security-shifts-at-south-minneapolis-club-may-28-2020/5743990



Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First
Calling for a more measured way to express opposition to police brutality, critics slammed demonstrators Thursday for recklessly looting businesses without forming a private equity firm first. “Look, we all have the right to protest, but that doesn’t mean you can just rush in and destroy any business without gathering a group of clandestine investors to purchase it at a severely reduced price and slowly bleed it to death,” said Facebook commenter Amy Mulrain, echoing the sentiments of detractors nationwide who blasted the demonstrators for not hiring a consultant group to take stock of a struggling company’s assets before plundering. “I understand that people are angry, but they shouldn’t just endanger businesses without even a thought to enriching themselves through leveraged buyouts and across-the-board terminations. It’s disgusting to put workers at risk by looting. You do it by chipping away at their health benefits and eventually laying them off. There’s a right way and wrong way to do this.” At press time, critics recommended that protestors hold law enforcement accountable by simply purchasing the Minneapolis police department from taxpayers.
May 28, 2020








Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First


MINNEAPOLIS—Calling for a more measured way to express opposition to police brutality, critics slammed demonstrators Thursday for recklessly looting businesses without forming a private equity firm first. “Look, we all have the right to protest, but that doesn’t mean you can just rush in and...




www.theonion.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I normally dislike listening to Al Sharpton ....

But this eulogy that he is giving at the funeral is just great.

It is all about class warfare and telling the Ruling Class "Take Your Knee Off Our Neck".

Very powerful.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

It's time to put copy/paste "calm" on ignore...


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> It's time to put copy/paste "calm" on ignore...


I have learned that when people write an opinion, the replies always ask for proof.
So, I just made it a habit to provide the proof (copy/paste) when commenting.
I try to post any interesting content I find in Mouse Land which supports my view of things.
I also know that the more links that I place into a post makes it more likely to appear in any Google Search results.
You are free to ignore me. I am not offended. My posts (information) will be in Mouse Land for an eternity and available for any Google search. You are one of 8 billion people.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

The left eventually eat their own. Democrat cities are now collapsing in the US. Might as well let it happen. Eventually the people will wake up and vote for someone right of center to fix it.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)




----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

When The Welfare Turns It's Back On You
By Robert Cray
(YouTube Video)





Welfare Store Blues
By Sonny Boy Williamson (Aka. John Lee Williamson )
(YouTube Video)


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> The left eventually eat their own. Democrat cities are now collapsing in the US. Might as well let it happen. Eventually the people will wake up and vote for someone right of center to fix it.


Hi! I think differently.

I keep saying ..... Ronnie Ray-Gun and the Capitalists have planned this event since 1980.

The U.S. Capitalist abandoned the North American Continent in 1980. (Free Trade.)

What the U.S. Capitalists did was starve the government.
"Smaller Government" was echoed across the land.
They created corridors and hallways of people standing in long line ups trying to apply for a government service.
Because Smaller Government was Great.
The Capitalists knew and recognized the Generational Storm was going to arrive in the mid 1990's...
Conservatives like Mike Harris in Ontario, Canada cut hugely into social programs and even cut health care knowing full well that the Generational Storm was arriving in full force within a very few years.

A government infrastructure so small and inadequate that they are using COBAL computer language and hardware from the time I bought my first Apple IIe in 1983. I had a Zenith Z150 as well and the printer was Daisy Wheel 45 characters a second.

That is why millions are still waiting for the unemployment cheque.

The Capitalists starved the Democratic System of it's life blood.
The Life Blood of any government are the Social Services it provides.
And ..... Grace Be To God.

The Capitalist has bankrupted the very soul of "Community" and called it Good Government.

And as they walked away from the employee pension plans it was the government which had insured them and thus accepted the liability.

And all the while they were transferring the wealth of their Dynasties off shore.
Yes .... Rich People live in North America ..... but the wealth is off shore.

And then introduced the Patriot Act .... Because they Hate Our Freedoms.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

And I want to tell you what the Capitalists called the "Free Market" .....

Bill Gates and every computer/chip manufactuer put a back door into the Computer Operating System and gave the key to the Government. The American Capitalists inspected all computer equipment at customs and added any monitoring gadget they wanted.

Google and MSN, Yahoo and The Clowns travelled all over the globe and stole everything that was not nailed down.

When I had my website Google never asked me if they could enter my website server and copy/steal or download it.

In fact, I was even charged for the bandwidth useage by my ISP provider. They never asked about copyright.

They captured every icon, every nanno sercond and every Klick happening on-Line.

They tapped into all the underground or undersea cables. They had a complete team and office at Verizon.

The U.S. Capitalists stole everything in Mouse Land for the past 20 years. It has been economic terrorism and economic sabotage across the globe. They monitored all conversations and communications and private phones of the Heads of State!

Nobody on this earth has had a private conversation, has had a private e-mail, for the past 20 years.

NSA knew your invention before your mother did.

How could the world compete economically against America and the U.S. Capitalists when they had the Knee On The Neck of all Humanity?

The U.S. Capitalist knew well in advance what you were thinking before the project or invention/patent was looking for financing.

It is called economic espionage.

And today ...... They U.S. Capitalists sold and bargained away the essence of our very being.

NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel
Secret deal places no legal limits on use of data by Israelis
Agency insists it complies with rules governing privacy
Read the NSA and Israel's 'memorandum of understanding'








NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel


• Secret deal places no legal limits on use of data by Israelis• Only official US government communications protected• Agency insists it complies with rules governing privacy




www.theguardian.com





I remember an earlier theft

The Apollo Affair
The Apollo Affair was a 1965 incident in which a US company, Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC), in the Pittsburgh suburbs of Apollo and Parks Township, Pennsylvania was investigated for losing 200–600 pounds (91–272 kg) of highly enriched uranium, with suspicions that it had gone to Israel's nuclear weapons program.
From Wikipedia





The Apollo Affair - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





"Prime Minister, I want to be sure that I understand what you are saying…You are saying that if ever Israel was in danger of being defeated on the battlefield, it would be prepared to take the region and the whole world down with it?’ Without the shortest of pauses for reflection, and in the gravel voice that could charm or intimidate American presidents according to need, Golda replied, “Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.” 
--Alan Hart, Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews: v. 1, September 30, 2009








Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews: v. 1: AlanHart: 9780955020704: Amazon.com: Books


Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews: v. 1 [AlanHart] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews: v. 1



www.amazon.com












Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, Vol. 2: David Becomes Goliath: Hart, Alan: 9780932863669: Books - Amazon


Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, Vol. 2: David Becomes Goliath: Hart, Alan: 9780932863669: Books - Amazon



www.amazon.com








__





Palestine Internationalist www.palint.org






www.palint.org





And still ....... The Ruling Class would arrest a black person for stealing 20 bucks, while the U.S. Capitalists have plundered the world and stole everything in sight.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

And, the latest example of a dastardly rioter being subdued by police.


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

andrewf said:


> And, the latest example of a dastardly rioter being subdued by police.


Very disturbing.

As the protests go on, the police are going to feel the pressure of long shifts, no vacations, and continual conflict. This will lead to frustration and ultimately to bizarre acts and violence.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

There goes habeas corpus. 









Roughed Up And Arrested For Protesting, New Yorkers Spend Hours In "Packed" Cells During Pandemic


“I was freezing and stinging at the same time because pepper spray doesn’t go away. It just stings randomly as you sweat."



gothamist.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Rambo - First Blood
1982
From Wikipedia








First Blood - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Everyone remembers Rambo's much-quoted soliloquy at the end of the film, the one where he complains about "maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting on me, calling me a baby-killer." What isn't quoted as often is a conversation between Teasle and Col. Trautman, the Special Forces officer who trained Rambo. Trautman, played by Richard Crenna, describes his student's immense skills as a fighter, and he suggests the police should defuse the situation by letting Rambo escape, waiting a few days, then putting out a nationwide APB and picking him up later. Teasle refuses.

Trautman: You want a war you can't win?

Teasle: Are you telling me that 200 men against your boy is a no-win situation for us?

Trautman: You send that many, don't forget one thing.

Teasle: What?

Trautman: Plenty of body bags.


http://www.reason.com/news/show/124630.html


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Violence begets violence.

Right wing protestors stormed the Michigan legislature with assault rifles and other weapons. 

These protests are only one incident away from protestors arming themselves for protection against police.

When the protestors start coming dressed in riot gear and with weapons.........then what ?


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Violence begets violence.
> 
> Right wing protestors stormed the Michigan legislature with assault rifles and other weapons.


If you're talking about the lockdown protest, it was a calm with no violence, vandalism, or arson.



> These protests are only one incident away from protestors arming themselves for protection against police.
> 
> When the protestors start coming dressed in riot gear and with weapons.........then what ?


You mean like the Antifa thugs that are currently rioting, committing arson, and beating innocent people senseless? Aer you capable of differentiating between violent anarchy and a peaceful protest?


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Maybe if the right to vote is taken away from anyone arrested for violence, looting, or arson during these riots then the Democrats might get off their butts and actually do something. 

But as long as they can sit back and watch the media blame Trump for decades of their failures then nothing will happen.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> If you're talking about the lockdown protest, it was a calm with no violence, vandalism, or arson.


As are the majority of protests happening now. As was the protest that Trump ordered removed from Lafayette Square with tear gas for his little photo op with a book he knows nothing about. He even had the clergy forced out of their own church.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Check out the front page of Reddit.com.

Scroll down the page and look at all the videos posted of police inciting violence and viciously assaulting people.

Here they are, knowing they are being watched, filmed, and after fellow officers have been charged with murder, and they are doing the same things.

Conclusion.........they just can't help themselves.









reddit


Reddit is a network of communities where people can dive into their interests, hobbies and passions. There's a community for whatever you're interested in on Reddit.




www.reddit.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

All citizens everywhere are watching these protests in TV-Land.

It is really a learning experience and a teachable moment.

It is not gonna end with The Ruling Class telling the world that they are truly sorry for being too greedy ....

What if only 25 percent of these protesters decide to continue protesting after the Tuesday funeral?

25% Protesting for larger "Ideals" could hold the Capitalists hostage and for ransom .... That is the whiff that I see on the horizon.

This feels much like a Bernie Sanders moment.

This is a "Social" Movement Protest.

25% of the Protesters aim to change the complete system.

I think the battle becomes more tense after George Floyd is buried.

Young People are watching these protests and "Learning" and "Studying".

Things could be tense.

When I was 20 years old in 1968, my mother never actively encouraged me to protest.
But today, parents are helping their kids protest. Parents are proud that the kids are protesting.

And there was more respect for law and order in 1968 too.

The Capitalists Play for keeps. They Play to Win. Always.

I remember Operation Northwoods: 1962
A member of the Joint Chief Staff actually needed to fabricate a reason to attack Cuba.
This military person who sits at the highest throne in government and he suggested that the CIA bomb American cities and blame Cuba. You would of thought that this clown was immediately taken out back and shot ....... No, the clown got promoted in later years.








Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Gulf of Tonkin incident
Where America fabricated the evidence to invade Vietnam.
August 02, 1964








Gulf of Tonkin incident - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

These don't look like Antifa beatings to me.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/gxo927


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

People have had enough of these thugs.

People are digging around, identifying the police officers committing the violence, and posting their names on the internet.

The US is on the verge of anarchy.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Police thuggery has a long history; this stuff isn't new. What's new is that cameras are capturing the footage.

Black and indigenous people already know about this. It's only white people who are finally catching on to the reality.

When I was in highschool, a kid who lived in the bad part of town used to tell us that police would come to their parties and beat up the children. We laughed and didn't really believe it... it was such a crazy story. Cops go to parties and beat up children??

He said that sometimes, a few cops would hold down a teen while another cop beat him with a phone book, since it didn't leave marks. This was around 1997 in Canada.

This stuff has been happening a long time -- and it happens to disadvantaged, poor groups. Not to white people.

Additionally there is a strong gang-like culture in police forces, to protect their own.

I know a lawyer who's a Public Defender. She said that police are incredibly dangerous, frequently planted evidence (on poor people who can't afford good defense), and also fabricated stories to pin crimes on whoever they suspect is guilty. She said that women should avoid dating and marrying them, because police can be quite abusive to their wives. In particular, their "gang" (the other cops) cover these things up.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Police thuggery has a long history; this stuff isn't new. What's new is that cameras are capturing the footage.


I remember just how badly the homosexuals were treated by Toronto Police.
I can well imagine how the cops handle black people.
Military teaches "Killology".
It is not natural for a human being to walk past an injured protester on a street.
It is inate in all of us. It is our "Humanity" which forces us to offer help/aid to another human being.
It is "Killology" that we are witnessing.








Grossman on Truth


Welcome to GROSSMAN ON TRUTH! I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts. –Abraham Lincoln LEARN MORE Donate The Truth ON KILLING The Truth ON COMBAT The Truth ON SPIRITUAL COMBAT…




www.killology.com





"On one of my trips to drop off a detainee at the jail, the Senior Interrogator told us not to bring them in any more. 'Just shoot them' he said, I was stunned, I couldn't believe he actually said it. He was not joking around, he was giving us a directive. A few days later a group of Humvees from another unit passed by one of our machine gun positions, and they had the bodies of two dead Iraqi's strapped to their hoods like a couple of deer. One of the bodies had exposed brain matter that had begun to cook onto the hood of the vehicle, it was a gruesome, medieval display. So much of what I experienced seemed out of control, I saw so little respect for the living and almost none for the dead, and there was almost no accountability." 
--Derek Seidman (co-editor of Left Hook) interviews Jim Talib, November 29, 2004--


http://www.lefthook.org/Interviews/SeidmanTalib112904.html










London, twinned with Baghdad


Open access // by Ignacio Ramonet (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, August 2005)



mondediplo.com


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Maybe people don't like Hassan Minhaj, but he has an interesting video on Youtube, if you are so inclined.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

"We Cannot Stay Silent about George Floyd"

No one is saying that people should stay silent...they're saying that the looters, arsonists, and anarchists should stop destroying their country.

If you want a real discussion, stop accusing people of trying to silence the calm protestors when they simply want the destruction to end. If you can't see the difference or choose to ignore the anarchy then you're part of the problem.

I have no interest in discussing anything with people who encourage or dismiss the anarchy. That has nothing to do with George Floyd, he's just the excuse they needed. Stop the riots and then maybe I'll listen.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Police thuggery has a long history; this stuff isn't new. What's new is that cameras are capturing the footage.
> 
> Black and indigenous people already know about this. It's only white people who are finally catching on to the reality.
> 
> ...


Minnesota is a Democrat state, Minneapolis has a Democrat mayor, Democrat prosecutors, Democrat chief of police, and Democrat unions. Trump is not the problem. 

Stop electing Democrats or it will continue.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> "We Cannot Stay Silent about George Floyd"
> 
> No one is saying that people should stay silent...they're saying that the looters, arsonists, and anarchists should stop destroying their country.
> 
> ...


No one is supporting looters and anarchists. Focusing on them is just an attempt to change the channel and avoid talking about police accountability.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> No one is supporting looters and anarchists. Focusing on them is just an attempt to change the channel and avoid talking about police accountability.


Who is changing the channel? There is a Democrat mayor and a Democrat police chief in Democrat city in a Democrat state. I pointed it out before and you ignored it. The media ignores it because they want to pin it on Trump.

This is a Democrat problem due to Democrat policies. The worst run cities in the US are all Democrat run.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

It is not Democrat --- Republican ....

It is The Ruling Clas who own and operate and control the government. (A game of musical chairs.)

When the Supreme Court said that money equals speech, the Ruling Class purchased the government. Cash as speech owns the ballot box itself.

You got no rights except The Right To Complain. That is all. (And furthermore, quit complaining about it.)

I remember the First Nations protests just a few years ago.
They were shamed because they were holding up traffic.

I remember the Occupy movement and the cops beat the protesters because they were slowing down traffic.

I remember the protests within the City of Ferguson in America, and the cops shamed the protesters walking on the street. The protesters were beaten with clubs because they stepped off the sidewalk.

Today, the protesters are being beaten and clubbed because they are committing violence.

The Ruling Class went to visit Pontius Pilot and demand the arrest of the Protester named Jesus and to then name him a threat.

He is not a threat to the Roman's themselves .... but the Ruling Class will successfully lobby Pontius Pilot to crucify the Jesus.

and repeat and rinse


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Who is changing the channel? There is a Democrat mayor and a Democrat police chief in Democrat city in a Democrat state. I pointed it out before and you ignored it. The media ignores it because they want to pin it on Trump.
> 
> This is a Democrat problem due to Democrat policies. The worst run cities in the US are all Democrat run.


Police abuse happens in Republican areas, too. Trump, a Republican, also used law enforcement in an unaccountable way in DC, by using police to violently remove peaceful protesters for a photo op, and deployed secret police to occupy DC.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

calm said:


> I remember the First Nations protests just a few years ago.
> They were shamed because they were holding up traffic.


The Natives shutting down of the railways just before the government shut down the economy helped destroy the economy. Well done


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Police abuse happens in Republican areas, too. Trump, a Republican, also used law enforcement in an unaccountable way in DC, by using police to violently remove peaceful protesters for a photo op, and deployed secret police to occupy DC.


Why can't you just admit that Democrat run places have descended into anarchy? No, you can't answer that so you ignore it and push misinformation.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It is true that police abuse happens in areas controlled by Democrats and Republicans.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The point I keep making is that no matter what the protesters do or act, they will always be said to be "Extremists".
If The Ruling Class were not complaining about holding up traffic, they would be complaining that they were littering the street.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Could be that the Ruling Class recognize that policing is just too expensive an ideal at this time of the collapsing empire. The cost of pensions and other benefits is multiple billions and are bankrupting communities.

Cities are going walk away from the union benefits just like the U.S. Capitalists did with the Working Class.

Could be that the Ruling Class are going to destroy police unions like Ronnie Ray-Gun and The Clowns did with air traffic controllers.

What we now know as policemen will be minimum wage social workers. The National Guard will replace arresting powers.

Social workers don't use force. And minimum wage means 10 times as many people weaved into the community. A "small army" of social workers on every corner.

In their spare time they can check/test for Covid-19.

On the National Scene. the Ruling Class are manufacturing the voter consent to introduce Martial Law.

Everybody and their dog are in TV-Land ruminating against a president who has less than 50% support.

Martial Law can not be introduced with such a small level of support.

They are working overtime to ensure that the November election elevates a new leader with at least 60% support, and thus opening the door to Martial Law.

It will be said that the new leader has an overwhelming and strong mandate to govern while Martial Law is being introduced.

Colin Powell will hold up a small glass capsule (Much like Iraq WMD claims) and say that he is willing to don his uniform and lead.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

John Oliver covers an excerpt of this interview/rant, which is interesting:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269044021969600513
For context:
Tulsa race massacre: Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia
Rosewood massacre: Rosewood massacre - Wikipedia

Interesting that Tulsa was swept under the rug for over 70 years. You'd think that the US bombing its own citizens in the USA would have been hard to cover up, although there seems to be conflicting stories.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The Tusla massacre featured prominently in the recently released Watchmen TV show.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

andrewf said:


> The Tusla massacre featured prominently in the recently released Watchmen TV show.


So I've heard, but I've never watched the show. I don't think that it's an event that is in the minds of most Americans, much less citizens of other countries.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Agreed. It was actually an interesting show, it had a lot to say about race in America. For a show about superheroes, it is not a dumb superhero show.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

bgc_fan said:


> John Oliver covers an excerpt of this interview/rant, which is interesting:


I can't view the show at the moment. Restrictions by HBO Canada.
I did download the complete talk by Kimberly Jones








‘Last Week Tonight’: John Oliver On How Policing Is Entangled With White Supremacy, Reforming The System And Defunding The Police


At the top of Last Week Tonight, John Oliver addressed the George Floyd protests and Donald Trump’s bible photo opp and the excessive force police officers use — specifically against th…




deadline.com




(YouTube Video)





I like your choice or recommended viewing. 
Saga - LAPD Beating
BigFan - Hassan Minhaj

I download them all and save them.
It has been a hobby of mine for 20 years.
Thanks


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)




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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I just checked, and I have 16,376 audio/video collection. (2380 GB)
I could post a copy of the file name tags if you thought you might be interested in viewing a few.
Where possible, I have all the transcripts as well.
Text File - .TXT - NotePad


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

While they talk about defunding the police force, it is more about police reform and restructuring. It looks like it worked well in Camden. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/police-reform-ideas-united-states-george-floyd-1.5601990


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The cost of policing is very huge.
Cities need to cut them which means using the word "Reform" as a means to decertify the police unions and walk away from future pension costs.
The cops will be given a choice ..... join the National Guard or become a minimum wage social worker of sorts.
The National Guard and Social Workers are going to be patrolling the steets.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Israel lobby sees Black Lives Matter as major strategic threat
"BLM is a Jew-hating, white-hating, Israel-hating, conservative Black-hating, violence-promoting, dangerous Soros-funded extremist group of haters,” Klein railed on Twitter.
As well as his anti-Black racism, Klein’s tweet was notable for its anti-Semitism – promoting the common right-wing calumny that Jewish billionaire George Soros is the world’s puppet master.
By Ali Abunimah
June 08, 2020








Israel lobby sees Black Lives Matter as major strategic threat


Unable to thwart the movement, anti-Palestinian racists try to co-opt it.




electronicintifada.net





Alan Dershowitz Thinks ‘Black Lives Matter’ Is Anti-Semitic, Sticks Up For Steve Bannon
Dershowitz has hopped on the crazy bus.
By Joe Patrice
November 16, 2016








Alan Dershowitz Thinks 'Black Lives Matter' Is Anti-Semitic, Sticks Up For Steve Bannon - Above the Law


Dershowitz has hopped on the crazy bus.




abovethelaw.com


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Looks like the police have figured out the appropriate level of implicit bias training:
St. Paul police screen 'Zootopia' as part of anti-bias training


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It shouldn't be that complicated in my mind.

If someone is threatening a police officer, they have to take any action necessary.

If someone is handcuffed and laying on the ground, the police have no need to beat them and put the boots to them.

If someone is suspected of having committed a minor crime and is running away, you don't shoot them.

You fiollow them and arrest them when you can.

How complicated is it really ?


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> It shouldn't be that complicated in my mind.
> 
> If someone is threatening a police officer, they have to take any action necessary.
> 
> ...


Decades of Democrat rule and they still haven't figured it out. So, obviously it's far too complicated for Democrats to handle. 

Almost all of the most violent and dangerous cities in the US are run by Democrats.
Almost all of the most bankrupt states and cities are run by Democrats.

How much more evidence of failure do you need before it sinks in? Is it too complicated for you?


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Almost all the states that drive the US economy and fund the 'heartland' states, are run by democrats.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Almost all the states that drive the US economy and fund the 'heartland' states, are run by democrats.


If true that doesn't explain why Democrats states are the most corrupt.

Perhaps it's the Democrat leadership?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Some will follow Trump right down the swirling drain.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Debt Jubilee :

CounterPunch Radio
Host Eric Draitser interviews Michael Hudson
September 21, 2015
Transcript:




__





Rewriting Economic Thought | Michael Hudson


Prof Michael Hudson on CounterPunch radio discussing how economic theory was rewritten to avoid Killing the Host.




michael-hudson.com





"In antiquity, private individuals obtained labor services by making loans to families in need, and obliging their servant girls, children or even wives to work off the loan in the form of labor service. 
Labor in the Ancient World. 
Creditors (often palace infrastructure managers or collectors) would get people into bondage. When new Bronze Age rulers started their first full year on the throne, it was customary to declare an amnesty to free bond servants and return them to their families, and annul personal debts as well as to return whatever lands were forfeited. So in the Bronze Age, debt serfdom and debt bondage was only temporary. The biblical Jubilee law was a literal translation of Babylonian practice that went back two thousand years."

Google Search Term - Debt Jubilee


Debt Jubilee - Google Search


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

As Diane Francis said in a recent column....the US is wonderful place to live as long as you are not poor, sick, black, or old.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Problem Solved :

Just like back in 2006 and when there were huge immigrant protests and shutting down complete cities. There arrived on the scene a term "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" and the protesters walked away,

Here we are 15 years later with Comprehensive Police Reform .......

And, we lived happily ever after?


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> Problem Solved :
> 
> Just like back in 2006 and when there were huge immigrant protests and shutting down complete cities. There arrived on the scene a term "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" and the protesters walked away,
> 
> ...


Democrat police chief in a Democrat city in a Democrat state. Decades of Democrat rule in several cities and states and they are by far the worst places to live in the US.

It never ends well when Democrats are in charge. I guess some people are just too stupid to figure it out.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

ian said:


> As Diane Francis said in a recent column....the US is wonderful place to live as long as you are not poor, sick, black, or old.


Okay ..... I chased down that article you mentioned.
A nice read,
Thanks.








Diane Francis: This is why America burns


Until this nation creates equal social services that create equal opportunities, the American Dream remains a crock




business.financialpost.com


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

andrewf said:


> Almost all the states that drive the US economy and fund the 'heartland' states, are run by democrats.


Right. And most of the states which are actually good places to live & work (have lots of jobs, good quality of life) have high taxes too, because they fund social services and programs.

The desirable places to live & work, also offering career progression and opportunities to working age people, are:
WA, OR, CA, TX, CO, NY, MA, VT.

America is a strange place this way. In most of these states, it's a lot more like living in Canada than you'd think (and I speak from experience) including the social values. The big Texas cities -- Austin, Houston, Dallas -- are quite a bit more liberal than I imagined.

My accountant, who helps me with taxes for both countries, was surprised: contrary to popular belief, the overall taxes in many of these places is actually comparable to what you'd pay in Canada.

The point is... there are two Americas. There are the areas which have lots of jobs and vibrant economies, and these are overwhelmingly Democrat regions with socially liberal values, and even good social programs. You really might think you're in Canada.

And then there are the rural areas, and other parts of the US... whole different story.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Gordon St. clair
CFRB radio in Toronto
June 05, 1973
The Americans (commentary)
From Wikipedia








The Americans (commentary) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

*I Remember


"Look at you, Society!"
I heard a hippie scream;
"You've failed us all repeatedly,
While portraying a no-where scene".

"You ban the gun, but hug the bomb;
While attending church to sing your psalms".
"What might you think we hippies are"?
"Rejects from the planet Mars"?

Shocked at this, I chose to pause.
Afraid to answer in fear to cause
Identical riots as those obliged
So, I stated this with solemn pride.

"What of you and your youthful scum;
Who eat the cake and waste the crumbs?"
"Yuh got 3 meals and your dowry;
Why impose yourself on life's peaked Calvary?"

Feeling that I had said quite enough
And knowingly sounded extremely rough
I awaited for the hippie replies
To tell me that I spoke of lies.

Moments passed and a young man rose;
To speak his views of slight impose.
"Sir", he said in truth dismay
"I speak for all who are here today."

"Employment is our greatest debt."
"We would work if you would only let
Us stay until the weathers warm
And our love-in childs are born."

Relax! I shouted, and perhaps unheard
But I was getting a bit disturbed
I wanted to call them a bunch of psychotics
But chose the word unpatriotic.

"This is not the time to ask of me;
For any help of any need that be."
It is a war of words that are left unsaid
Maybe you love Saddam instead?

I tried to shame them towards my beliefs
I promised a future of absolute relief
I spoke of pride and opinion polls
And claimed that dissent would take its toll.

Within the crowd whispers began
Another young man decidedly took a stand
His war of words seemed to bend the wind
And he simply asked: "Where is the peace dividend?"*

Calm​


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

MOVE is a black liberation group founded in 1972 in Philadelphia, 
Philadelphia May 13, 1985





MOVE - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





.... a bombing and subsequent blazing inferno that killed 11 people, including five children, and destroyed 61 homes, leaving 250 people homeless.
That horrific May 13, 1985 incident occurred when Philadelphia Police, using a helicopter, dropped a powerful satchel bomb on the rooftop of a house occupied by members of a black radical organization known as MOVE. The bomb sparked a fire, which was the goal of the action, but Philadelphia’s then Police Commissioner ordered fire fighters not to battle the blaze, which roared out of control becoming a destructive inferno.
The Police Commissioner justified his unconscionable order, saying he was using the fire as a ‘tactical weapon’ to force the barricaded radicals out of their fortified row home. However, evidence indicates that police fired upon MOVE members trying to flee the blaze, driving them back inside their home, where temperatures reached 2,000-degrees. 
The lone surviving MOVE adult and one MOVE child who successfully fled the fire, reported hearing gunshots, a contention indignantly rejected by police and prosecutors, including federal prosecutors, who refused requests to pursue civil rights law violation charges for the deaths of the five children trapped in the burning house.
The deaths of those five MOVE children in the inferno were characterized as unjustified homicides by a blue-ribbon, but non-bindin,g citizens’ investigative panel appointed by Philadelphia’s then mayor Wilson Goode.
But that homicide finding was rejected by Philadelphia’s then Republican District Attorney who deliberately distorted legalities to justify not pursuing any charges against any governmental employee involved in that 1985 clash, even against policemen (including the police commissioner) caught lying to a grand jury.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Antifa terrorists have now taken over several blocks of downtown Seattle with no pushback from the local (Democrat) government or the police force. Their list of demands is so ridiculously stupid that I won't list them.

Congratulations Seattle...you got the government you voted for.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> The desirable places to live & work, also offering career progression and opportunities to working age people, are:
> WA, OR, CA, TX, CO, NY, MA, VT.
> 
> The point is... there are two Americas. There are the areas which have lots of jobs and vibrant economies, and these are overwhelmingly Democrat regions with socially liberal values, and even good social programs. You really might think you're in Canada.
> ...


Downtown Seattle (overwhelmingly Democrat) has been taken over by terrorists. But maybe your definition of a desirable place to live differs from everyone else.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

That protest in Seattle seem to be like the T-Party Clowns.

These protesters are like the present chief of the supreme court, and when he was one of the guys hammering on the glass windows and threatening the poll workers as they were inspecting the ballots in Florida.

The media is taking the demands made literally instead of as a political statement,
The media are pretending that they are threatening words, but the truth is, the protesters are screaming "Negotiate",

Why is it that the media never suggests that they are not really demands? ..... It is a negotiating stance.

Should the protesters just get down on their knees and beg? Would that have us all feel better? Maybe the Ruling Class can explain how they negotiate? How do the Ruling Class (Chamber of Commerce members) manage to get all their demands met?

Protesters are not screaming to threaten anybody. They are screaming loudly just to be heard.
They are screaming loudly just to show those at the other side of the negotiating table that the protesters mean "Business" and are determined to accomplish their goals.

Just like any business person does at a stock holders meeting.
Scream loudly and carry a big stick.

Protesters want a meeting with the Upper Class.
And the first business on the agenda needs to be inequality.

The protesters have formed their very own Chamber of Commerce goup and it is called Black Lives Matter. (Subject to a name change without notice.)

Why is that seen as a threat?

It is the Ruling Class who are threatening. They are threatening to hold the country hostage again. Drag the negotiations out - Change the Topic.

The Ruling Class held the world hostage just a short while ago and where they demanded to get bailed out or they would destroy the country. That was when the military should of been called in.

Imagine the nerve ....?

When the virus hit our shores, the Ruling Class was bankrupt overnight.
I was bankrupt too.

I never got completely bailed out. I was not made completely whole again. I got "Assistance" at about 15 bucks a day for 3 months.

The Ruling Class just got bailed out. They were made whole. And worse; everybody and their great-great-great grandchildren) agreed to contribute

Now that the U.S. Capitalists got their trillions and promises for as much as they want.

..... they refuse to negotiate with the same people who first helped them.

The thankless Ruling Class should have given all the people a Debt Jubilee


Debt Jubilee - Google Search



The U.S. Capitalists need to get their candy-*** asses to a negotiating table.

Right now the Ruling Class is sticking to "We Don't Negotiate With Terrorists" game play.

They played that game with Martin Luther King for a very long time.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

PG may be called upon by dear leader to defend the presidency when Trump loses.


Prairie Guy said:


> Downtown Seattle (overwhelmingly Democrat) has been taken over by terrorists. But maybe your definition of a desirable place to live differs from everyone else.


I don't support looney far left politics, either. And yet Seattle is home to several trillionish market cap companies (and many, many somewhat smaller ones).

I think you leave no room for nuance. People are either left or right in your mind. As soon as a conservative criticizes Trump like David Frum or Colin Powell, they become 'far left activists'. Most liberals/democrats don't support the type of left wing lunacy you see in cities like Portland (probably the epicentre) and Seattle. If all liberals/leftish people own the crazies in Seattle, I guess that means you & Trump own David Duke and the KKK.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Young people were raised with the Sesame Street ideals of sharing.
My parents learned about sharing during the depression and contributing used toasters to the war effort.
There was no Sesame Steet when I was young. (I had "Greed Was Good")


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The problem with these protests is there is no national leader, who can condemn bad activity and negotiate for changes.

Someone from the community will have to step forward to lead.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

And just in case anyone thought the situation with police in the US is just a racial problem, it is not, though it is likely racial minorities suffer more because of more frequent interactions.

I am reminded of Daniel Shaver, a young (white) man who was shot by an obviously very poorly trained officer despite being unarmed and having done nothing wrong. The officer was later acquitted. The reality is that this can happen to anyone. This is why my personal MO is to 1) avoid interactions with the police and 2) don't escalate or otherwise give them any reason to perceive you to be a threat. Despite your best efforts, you still may end up dead at the hands of police. Being white helps with 1, and perhaps with 2. Arguing with police or getting animated during an interaction is insane. You can be in the right, but you will still end up dead and the cop will with 99% probability face zero consequences.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

sags said:


> The problem with these protests is there is no national leader, who can condemn bad activity and negotiate for changes.
> 
> Someone from the community will have to step forward to lead.


Right now it is far too dangerous to step out as a national leader.
Occupy Wall Street learned that.

The leaders will step forth when the Ruling Class agree to negotiate.

Until then protesters will continue the glass breaking and looting.

Knowing that it is only when the cost of not negotiating in good faith becomes too high that change will come.

The future leaders or negotiators must play the good cop and bad cop routine.

The Ruling Class know that they can deal with the violent protests or deal with the negotiators at the table.

Their choice.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

andrewf said:


> And just in case anyone thought the situation with police in the US is just a racial problem, it is not, though it is likely racial minorities suffer more because of more frequent interactions.
> 
> I am reminded of Daniel Shaver, a young (white) man who was shot by an obviously very poorly trained officer despite being unarmed and having done nothing wrong. The officer was later acquitted. The reality is that this can happen to anyone. This is why my personal MO is to 1) avoid interactions with the police and 2) don't escalate or otherwise give them any reason to perceive you to be a threat. Despite your best efforts, you still may end up dead at the hands of police. Being white helps with 1, and perhaps with 2. Arguing with police or getting animated during an interaction is insane. You can be in the right, but you will still end up dead and the cop will with 99% probability face zero consequences.


 brutal. Could they not have asked him to lie face down with his arms and legs spread out. then frisked and cuffed him?

a friend of mine is a cop. We We’re good friends in high school and University. Lost touch with him now. when he first got the job, you could feel the fear in his voice when he told us stories. One of his first calls was responding to a domestic at an apartment building. He pulled up to the building and his partner said you can’t park here....park farther away. The residents throw bottles at us when they see us. 

I can’t imagine the feeling going into dangerous situations.,..I know the anxiety I feel when I go paint-balling. 

Tough job.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

They asked for this job.

When I worked underground in a uranium mine and breathed in radioactivity all day, and when I had rock ceilings liable to fall down at a minor undeground shake, I was doing what I could for the defense of our country,

And when the company was found to have falsified the records which detailed just how much radiation I was exposed to, I still continued my contribution to our country.

I am not a hero and the cop is not a hero either.

The cops formed a union and held society up for ransom and threatened to write fewer parking tickets which contribute millions to the city financing.

The cops want to serve the community so badly that they refuse to live in the city which they patrol.

It is because they were born to serve.that they demand exhorbitant salaries and benefits.

There is no real need to pay a cop more than what I got paid as an underground miner working 66 hundred and 20 feet below surface.

When I was a kid a cop would help make sure my sister made it home safely.

Now it is all about the cop making it home safely.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It kind of goes to show the downside of a gun culture. In the US, everyone is armed and capable of deploying deadly force in a second until proven to be safe & unarmed. That has an effect on the mentality of the police. So everyone is paying the price for widespread gun ownership in heightened probability of being killed by police for being suspected of carrying a weapon.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

andrewf said:


> It kind of goes to show the downside of a gun culture. In the US, everyone is armed and capable of deploying deadly force in a second until proven to be safe & unarmed. That has an effect on the mentality of the police. So everyone is paying the price for widespread gun ownership in heightened probability of being killed by police for being suspected of carrying a weapon.


 ... like "shoot first, ask questions later".

Don't think this gun-trigger-happy is resorted to US cops only ... as look no further than TO at the famous ex-cop Forcillo. It took him an additional 6 bullets to flatline a *dead*-body on an empty street-car. Some people are just not meant to be cops, even with proper training.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

When I was working in underground mines, I wrote a poem about it.

THE MINER

The cage stands wait,
For the lone miner is late,
To fullfill his duties today.

Patiently, he dons his rags.
Solemnly, his shoulders sag.
Still questioning why he stays.

I hear his steps upon the ramp,
I see reflections from his lamp.
I smell his clothes of rot and oil,
And scan the face of yearly toil.

A signal chimes, a buzzer sounds,
To speed this man below the ground.
He shudders with cold and only hopes,
There'll be 8 safe hours within the stope.

Again he enters the drenching drifts,
And signals the cage to an upward lift.
Enters his stope while looking for cracks,
Picks up a bar and scales the back.

There are no windows for the sunlight rays,
His eyes are shadowed from darkened days.
He sees only sparkles unpon the walls,
As he chips the ore from age-old stalls.

While searching his prints, the sounds are still.
He marks his breast and prepares to drill.
His machine barks and echoes while pounding rock,
Truly this man is of miner's stock.

I question the years this man will work.
I question the words spoken by the Kirks.
While watching sweat drip from dampened brow
To provide for his kids and beloved spouse.

Again, he leaves this devils depth,
To arrive upon earths surface cleft.
God thank this man with guts of few,
Who awaits for tomorrow, a day of new.

Calm


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

There’s No Way Around It: Spending on Police in the US Is out of Control
Our cities have siphoned money away from public goods like education and social services, and funneled the cash into ever-larger, ever-more-militarized police forces. It's time to reverse that.
---
Basically, our cities have been siphoning money from stuff like education and social services and funneling the cash into ever-larger militarized security forces.

Nationally, the numbers are stark: between 1977 and 2017, America’s population grew by about 50 percent, while state and local spending on police grew by a whopping 173 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars, according to data from the Urban Institute. In other words, the rate of police-spending growth was _triple_ the rate of population growth.

Chicago and New York embody the trends.

The former has been losing population over the last decade. At the same time, Mayor Rahm Emanuel grew the police budget by 27 percent during his eight-year term, to the point where Chicago now spends more than 38 percent of its general fund on police. Those increases coincided with a spate of police brutality scandals, as well as budget cuts that resulted in teacher layoffs and the mass closure of Chicago public schools. And yet Chicago’s new mayor, Lori Lightfoot, has been pushing a new 7 percent increase in the police budget.

By David Sirota 
June 08, 2020








There’s No Way Around It: Spending on Police in the US Is out of Control


Our cities have siphoned money away from public goods like education and social services, and funneled the cash into ever-larger, ever-more-militarized police forces. It's time to reverse that.




jacobinmag.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
--John Ehrlichman 1994--

Legalize It All
How to win the war on drugs
By Dan Baum
April 2016 Issue








Legalize It All, by Dan Baum


How to win the war on drugs




harpers.org





I recall here in Canada, the supreme court had ruled that the police were not allowed to stop and search a vehicle without just cause.

In no time at all, the media invented the Town Drunk.

They began a program called RIDE and began to enforce it at Christmas time.
Next they enforced it along the highways on May 24th.

They are now allowed to stop any vehicle and completely search on some sort of suspicion.

Maybe what they should of done was ban parking lots at booze establishments.

when I was a kid, Society used the police to control me when I was on the street after school.

They used the anti-drug laws to control young people and to stop. harass and search young people.

Today they are using the Anti-Terror laws to control young people. Everyone is a suspect.

With the Patriot Act, there was no need to keep soft drugs illegal.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... like "shoot first, ask questions later".
> 
> Don't think this gun-trigger-happy is resorted to US cops only ... as look no further than TO at the famous ex-cop Forcillo. It took him an additional 6 bullets to flatline a *dead*-body on an empty street-car. Some people are just not meant to be cops, even with proper training.


combination of training (unload your weapon at the torso), militarized order-taking, aggressive personalities.

remind me of...

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for (the deceased). You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that (the deceased’s) death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you _want_ me on that wall. You _need_ me on that wall. We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you", and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a _damn_ what you think you are entitled to!

this sums up the old (current?) school Thinking.......


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

The far left took over downtown Seattle and the first thing they did was create a border to keep specific people out. I guess walls are only racist when Republicans build them.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

calm said:


> I recall here in Canada, the supreme court had ruled that the police were not allowed to stop and search a vehicle without just cause.
> 
> In no time at all, the media invented the Town Drunk.
> 
> ...


Not completely accurate information there calm.

Motor vehicle stops and searches on mere suspicion of something do not pass muster under s. 8 of the Charter. There are hundreds of recent cases out there, but here's one, recent, fairly good example of the thinking in legal circles.:

R. v. Huete S.C., Burke J., 2018 BCSC 637, New Westminster X079545, April 20, 2018 , 31pp.

A barebones summary of the case would be:

CHARTER OF RIGHTS — Sections 8, 9 and 10(b) • Police deciding to stop a rental car in an area known for drug trafficking — One officer claiming to detect marijuana smell, leading to arrest and search of the accused driver and passenger — Search revealing 4.1 g. of marijuana and a loaded gun — Court finding the police used a traffic stop as a ruse to gather intelligence related to drugs and gangs — Court finding breach of accuseds’ ss. 8 and 9 Charter rights, as well as a s. 10(b) breach due to a delay in affording them access to counsel.

Generally speaking, to conduct a lawful search of a motor vehicle requires a lawful arrest of someone in that vehicle. The concept of "search incidental to arrest" is well explained here:

R. v. Aeichele S.C., G.P. Weatherill J., 2020 BCSC 298, Penticton 45595-2, March 3, 2020 , 21pp.

Again, I offer a brief summery:

ARREST — Warrantless arrest — Reasonable and probable grounds • SEARCH & SEIZURE — Search incidental to arrest • CHARTER OF RIGHTS — Sections 8, 9, 10 — Two police officers observing 2 men associated with drugs talking with the 2 unknown occupants of an Explorer motor vehicle in a parking lot — Officers approaching and asking the 4 about their activities — Although suspicious, officers soon telling the 4 they were free to leave — Accused driver starting to drive off, revealing a baggie of apparent cocaine on the ground where the Explorer had been parked — Officers arresting the 2 occupants and conducting a search incidental to arrest — Search revealing more drugs in the vehicle and on the accused passenger — On voir dire, court finding the initial detention was in breach of s. 9 of the Charter and a delay in arranging for one of the accused to contact counsel was a s. 10(b) breach — Court finding the arrest and searches incidental were lawful and the search results admissible.

We can also plumb the depths of what constitutes a "lawful arrest" if you like.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> Not completely accurate information there calm.


It is very nice to meet you.
I am impressed.
Looking forward with glee.

It seems to me that the charter of rights trip is 1982.
I seem to remember RIDE in Toronto before that date.
Am I wrong?
I checked and it says RIDE began in 1977.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Yes, Charter came in in 1982. 

As for RIDE in TO, I grew up there, but moved back to Vancouver not long before 1982, on graduation from university. I recall the RIDE program there, but possibly as a result of many visits to TO over Christmas for quite a few years after leaving. So I can't say for sure when the RIDE program was introduced there.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> Yes, Charter came in in 1982.
> 
> As for RIDE in TO, I grew up there, but moved back to Vancouver not long before 1982, on graduation from university. I recall the RIDE program there, but possibly as a result of many visits to TO over Christmas for quite a few years after leaving. So I can't say for sure when the RIDE program was introduced there.


It was began in 1977.
My time frame for my view was sometime between 1965 thru 1972.
Was there any case held by the court preventing stop and search of drivers on highway 17?
If I recall correctly, the supreme court ruled against stop/search between 1965 and 1972.
And the RIDE happened in 1977.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

calm said:


> It was began in 1977.
> My time frame for my view was sometime between 1965 thru 1972.
> Was it legal to stop a car on highway 17 and search it without just cause during that time frame?
> Was there any case held by the court preventing stop and search of drivers on highway 17?
> ...


You are challenging my historical legal knowledge there calm. I was pretty young in the years 1965-72 and have no direct knowledge of the law in that era upon which to draw. I cannot say if there were any cases then dealing with hwy. 17 in particular, but I would not expect to find any. The law of the day would have been of more general application. 

In the pre-Charter era, there were fewer enshrined guarantees. Prior to 1982, the law of search and seizure was a combination of statutory provisions and common law rules relating to search, seizure and police powers. I am aware that some provinces had liquor legislation in the pre-Charter era that allowed warrantless motor vehicle searches on a cop's subjective suspicion. 

I would doubt it was ever the case - on highway 17 or elsewhere - where completely random stops and searches were sanctioned. At the same time, where such unlawful searches occurred, the courts were softer on the admissibility of illegally-obtained evidence. The highest authority for that proposition is usually seen to be the Supreme Court of Canada judgment in _R_. v. _Wray,_ [1971] S.C.R. 272


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I kept mentioning highway 17 (Provincial Highway) so you would not think City of Toronto.
Thanks.
No need to lose sleep over this.
Lets move along.
Thanks for the info.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

And I mentioned hwy. 17 because you mentioned it. And you mentioned RIDE as a Toronto thing, so why not think of it that way when you asked about when did it start?

Not many things cause me to lose sleep. This discussion ranks low on the list.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> And I mentioned hwy. 17 because you mentioned it. And you mentioned RIDE as a Toronto thing, so why not think of it that way when you asked about when did it start?
> 
> Not many things cause me to lose sleep. This discussion ranks low on the list.


I agree it was my fault for not stating my case properly.
Sorry about that,


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

No problem calm. All's good.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I Can't Breathe ....... I am smothering in debt.

I need a Debt Jubilee just like what the Ruling Class and the Gangsters on Wall Street just got 3 months ago.


Debt Jubilee - Google Search


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Just A Laugh

A Message From Calm
Turn Your Sound On
A Very Short Flash File 
AMessage-FromCalm.swf


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Was Lincoln Really Against Slavery?

DiLorenzo Is Right About Lincoln 
By Walter E. Williams
March 22, 2005








DiLorenzo Is Right About Lincoln - LewRockwell


In 1831, long before the War between the States, South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun said, "Stripped of all its covering, the naked question is, whether ours is a federal or consolidated government; a constitutional or absolute one; a government resting solidly on the basis of the sovereignty...




www.lewrockwell.com





"Abraham Lincoln’s direct statements indicated his support for slavery; He defended slave owners’ right to own their property, saying that "when they remind us of their constitutional rights [to own slaves], I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the claiming of their fugitives" (in indicating support for the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850)." 
----
"Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation was little more than a political gimmick, and he admitted so in a letter to Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase: "The original proclamation has no...legal justification, except as a military measure." Secretary of State William Seward said, "We show our sympathy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free. " Seward was acknowledging the fact that the Emancipation Proclamation applied only to slaves in states in rebellion against the United States and not to slaves in states not in rebellion." 

Myth number seven: Abraham Lincoln was the ******* friend. In his debate with Stephen Douglas, Lincoln said:





Fourth Joint Debate at Charleston. Mr. Lincoln's Speech. Lincoln, Abraham. 1897. Political Debates Between Lincoln and Douglas


Fourth Joint Debate at Charleston. Mr. Lincoln's Speech. Lincoln, Abraham. 1897. Political Debates Between Lincoln and Douglas



www.bartleby.com




"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of *******, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

In his letter to Horace Greeley, the editor of the New York Tribune, dated August 22, 1862, Lincoln said:


http://www.swcivilwar.com/Greeley.html


"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Dave Chappelle Speaks Out on George Floyd’s Death, Blasts Candace Owens in Searing Netflix Special
By Audrey Cleo Yap
June 12, 2020








Dave Chappelle Speaks Out on George Floyd’s Death, Blasts Candace Owens in Searing Netflix Special


Dave Chappelle does not hold back in a new Netflix special titled “8:46,” which the streaming platform surprise debuted for free on its YouTube comedy channel late Thursday evening. In a set rife w…




variety.com




Candace Amber Owens Farmer








Candace Owens - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




----
8:46 - Dave Chappelle
Netflix Is A Joke
From Dave: Normally I wouldn't show you something so unrefined, I hope you understand
Net worth: $50 million
June 11, 2020
(YouTube Video)


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Hey...did you hear about the alt right armed and violent thugs who took over several blocks in downtown Seattle?

Oopsie...they're alt left. Or is it fake news?

Anyway, continuing ignoring the anarchy. If the mainstream media doesn't cover it, it never happened. Maybe next week an alt right thug will do something wrong so you can get outraged.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> Hey...did you hear about the alt right armed and violent thugs who took over several blocks in downtown Seattle?


Maybe if the press talked about Antifa violence all day it would create copycat violence.
Maybe the best thing might be is to ignore it.

There are at least 20 million people protesting.
A few Antifa or whoever turns up to aggitate and commit violence is not a big deal in the larger picture.
If there are 1 million Antifa Folks, that is nothing in the big picture.

There are 19 million other protesters threatening the seat of government.

Being poor must be like walking around with a molar toothache all day. It torments you all day and everyday.

They are demanding some toothache drops.

Our System of government can not continue to ignore the pain of being poor.

Why are you not screaming about just how destitute some people are in our society?

You are screaming about "Rights". People have a right to live without pain.

I don't think that the protesters should allow the Rich Folks to enjoy their wealth. Let the Rich Folks remain at home and count their money, but not ever to enjoy it. See how much pain the Rich Folks can endure?

Rich Folks should be shamed and ridiculed in the same way as Antifa until they begin share the wealth which is earned within the society. The Rich Folks are the most violent class of people I have ever witnessed. Don't worry about Antifa.

It seems to me that you enjoy shaming and ridiculing the actions of Antifa rather than deal with the economic injustice within our society.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

We get it calm...leftist violence is okay and the left will justify it anyway they can. Just be honest enough admit you support it.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I have little problem with protesters causing property damage. I can live with it.
I don't want to encourage it, but know that stuff does happen during any mass protest.

When they stand on the police station property and stick their tongues out at the Ruling Class, they are doing it for Poor People like me.

They are setting up an area like Occupy Wall Street set up. It has a library and professors used to come and give speeches. Kind of like an information center, This is a repeat of that strategy. When Occupy Wall Street was finally removed from the downtown park, it was this (teaching and lecture) area which held out the longest.
Zucotti Park Encampment:








Occupy Wall Street - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Stuff Happens ...... Check out these looters:

Trump Admin. Refuses to Disclose Corporate Recipients of $500 Billion in Coronavirus Bailout Funds"





'Speaking of Looting...': Trump Admin. Refuses to Disclose Corporate Recipients of $500 Billion in Coronavirus Bailout Funds | naked capitalism


The CARES Act enabled unprecedented, unaccountable corporate looting when passed. The Trump administration follows through on that promise.




www.nakedcapitalism.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Those protesters in Seattle know full well that they have no defence.

They just feel so good taunting the Ruling Class.

After 20 years of "Trickle Down Economics" and 20 years of economic pain, a large portion of the community is spitting into the eyes of the Ruling Class.

That community is making a statement.

There are many more "Statements" in the planning.

It took years and years of Martin Luther King to have such a following.

This is 25 times the support and shows how huge the Anti-Government, Anti-System, feeling is within North America.

The people I see in TV-Land don't look too dangerous to me. And they have such a sense of "Mission" .


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Washington Post opinion journalist and "Rise of the Warrior Cop" author Radley Balko joins Bill to discuss the potential changes coming to America's police forces.
HBO - Real Time with Bill Maher
Host Bill Maher interviews Radley Balko
June 12, 2020





Radley Balko on the Future of Policing — Real Time with Bill Maher Blog


Washington Post opinion journalist and "Rise of the Warrior Cop" author Radley Balko joins Bill to discuss the potential changes coming to America's police forces.




www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com




Radley Balko








Radley Balko - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




(YouTube Video)


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Heard/saw a police siren go by today (US) so turned on the scanner

It was a "well being check" on a "paranoid" 48-year old male with 4 registered firearms on the line with 911. The address is to an oceanfront golf/country club type apartment complex. Police report no response at the door - dispatch says he's on the line and seems agitated - meanwhile more sirens go by. Police report door is locked, verbal contact, no compliance. Last thing I heard was staging for forced entry into the bedroom. This all happened within about 15 mins

Radio silence - guess I'll check local news tomorrow


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

This protest is a wellness check of society.
And things are lookin' a bit tense.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> Heard/saw a police siren go by today (US) so turned on the scanner
> 
> It was a "well being check" on a "paranoid" 48-year old male with 4 registered firearms on the line with 911. The address is to an oceanfront golf/country club type apartment complex. Police report no response at the door - dispatch says he's on the line and seems agitated - meanwhile more sirens go by. Police report door is locked, verbal contact, no compliance. Last thing I heard was staging for forced entry into the bedroom. This all happened within about 15 mins
> 
> Radio silence - guess I'll check local news tomorrow


You can still pick these up on a scanner? Don't police use encrypted bands these days?

I would imagine that gangs and drug cartels would listen to the scanner for counter intel.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I would imagine that gangs and drug cartels would listen to the scanner for counter intel.


Yea I assume they use encryption for sensitive situations. I was surprised how much detail I was hearing but then it went silent after they mentioned forced entry. Like they didn't say his name but a person could easily figure it out by the address and I was getting a detailed play-by-play up to that point

Since then I've only heard about all the silly mundane things people call in about in the meantime. Never hear the outcome though. Not sure if they leave the normal dispatch open for transparency or because encryption can be annoying (military still uses clear freqs for a lot of things)


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I found all the local police logs about significant events/arrests are posted online weekly

#remindme next week


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Those lawyers representing Rayshard Brooks for the shooting on Friday night are really-really making a point.

The Occupy Movement never got this kind of free media coverage with many lectures from financial accountants mocking "Capitalism".

American media did not allow Occupy to give a half hour news conference on demand..

Black Lives Matter is getting huge media coverage and free.

The Ruling Class are terrified of "Organized People". Whether it be a union or BLM.

This is getting really serious now.

In one single city, protesters have shut down a 14 lane highway.

And this is going to happen in every city. There are millions of unemployed within cities.

The protesters seem to be totally insulted when the police show up and threaten to use militarized force against them.

Being threatened by police must feel like a slap in the face from the Rich Folks.

The Ruling Class may need to introduce Martial Law if this happens again in the next day or two.

I think that a temporary "Cease Fire" will need to be arranged with all law enforcement.

Congress is promising an "Inquiry" and no commitments.

A Racism Inquiry.
It is not an inquiry into inequality. It is an inquiry into Racism.

The Ruling Class are trying a divide and rule strategy.

I think about 30-40 percent of protesters want to talk about inequality.
Maybe 70% to discuss Racism.

The two "Interests" must survive.

To "Survive" as a political force the protesters need to join forces in "Partnership".

"United We Stand ..... Divided We Fall"


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

People have come together to address several issues that affect their lives.

There is no requirement that a protest only address one issue.

It is the breadth of participation in the protests by all ages, races and genders that make these protests more difficult for authorities to push to the side.

Systemic racism, police practices, confederate flags and statues, wealth and income inequality, are all issues on the table now.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I think Congress is going to introduce some grandiose scheme and call it "Reform" and "Investigations".

Even Cuomo introduced some regulations which need to be reported on in a year. And as soon as Cuomo intrduced the new laws, he started acting as if it was problem solved. See yuh in a year.

Nobody is talking about "Reforming The Capitalists".

After Congress creates a "Special Panel", Congress will retain the exclusive right to use force against the protesters because they are being unreasonable terrorists.

After all, we gave the protesters some TV time in TV-Land. Problem Solved.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The media just asked a prominent Black Lives Matter person .....

"Are You Gonna Work With Republicans To Get This Law Passed"?

We will know when the Protesters can declare victory .......

"Are The Republicans Gonna Work With Black Lives Matter To Get This Law Passed".

Congress is going to pass laws which the Supreme Court will claim is imposing on State's Rights.

Legislation has to take place at the State Level and not Washington.

The Media is playing along with the charade by the Congress.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

About DeFunding Police ......

It should be "Relocate" the police forces.

Just remove this present system of "Force and Violence" off our street.

Take your weapons and military gear with you.
Go and investigate all the Regulation Avoidance or "Mistakes" and Conflicts of interest within the City Wide Capitalist System.

These "Crime Investigators" can find work someplace else in the city.

Leave our community and ride uptown and investigate all the crime happening there. (Regulation Avoidance.)

I am quite sure that the fines imposed by these investigators, and when finding instances of Regulation Avoidance and frauds will easily finance the Relocation. Rather than issuing parking tickets, start issuing a sopoeana for ledgers at the very first office tower you see.

Financial Crime and corruption is huge within our systems of government. Let the police officers continue their careers but just doing different types of crime and investigations.
Investigate financial crimes Only.

I am quite confident that such a huge amount of fraud and corruption will be found by the newly Relocated forces, not only will the Relocation of police be easily financed, there would be little doubt that the costs of putting social workers on the front lines would be easily covered too.

It seems to me the community wants to begin building a new set of infrastructure required to design and implement a new form or method of community and social cohesion.

The Protesters want social workers on the front lines.

Take the cash the police are now using to pay snitches and give it to the community center.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Two black men found hanged in LA-area parks in separate incidents. Police try to pass off as suicides...









Families Challenge Suicide in Deaths of Black Men Found Hanging From Trees (Published 2020)


The bodies of Robert Fuller and Malcolm Harsch were found in California, 10 days and 50 miles apart. Their families are demanding deeper investigations.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Two black men found hanged in LA-area parks in separate incidents. Police try to pass off as suicides...


If not suicide then it's a 90% chance they were killed by other black men based on official statistics. Since Andrew wasn't there he has no idea what happened but he questions the police and we can all be pretty sure he'll be disappointed if they weren't killed by white people.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

It is said that the police have lost all credibility and trust in the community.

Why are they being trusted in the courthouse when they testify against community members?

I believe that the police use the witness stand as a weapon too and make many false claims in order to assure a conviction and a pay raise.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The police waited 12 days to do an autopsy. They just assumed it was a suicide. It is true that most murders are within racial groups, but this method of killing has some historical connotations. Usually it would be guns or knives... 

The disappointing thing is how carelessly the investigation is being conducted.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

.
The Rich are Defunding Our Democracy

They’ve won a settlement that will have public tax dollars renourishing their beloved beachfront with fresh sand through at least the year 2027. 

A smashing triumph for the “blunt force” of “superior economic power.”
The Hamptons rich simply haven’t needed voter support. They’ve taken government officials to court instead and let their generously compensated lawyers spend years litigating their case. That strategy has served the rich well. 








The Rich are Defunding Our Democracy


How can you tell if you’re living in a democracy? The answer can get rather complicated. Simple yardsticks can often confuse more than clarify. Take the




www.counterpunch.org





Dune Road Is Falling Into the Sea—Unless the Billionaires Can Save It
The 13.9-mile-long sand barrier is the geographical beginning of the Hamptons, the playground of America’s financiers and celebrities on eastern Long Island, N.Y.




__





Bloomberg - Are you a robot?






www.bloomberg.com




----
The Place
Former New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning has a home on Dune Road. Calvin Klein and Henry Kravis own property nearby, in a neighborhood called Billionaire’s Lane, as does the fictional hedge fund kingpin Bobby Axelrod on Showtime’s Billions . (That mansion’s real owner: venture capitalist Michael Loeb.)
By Polly Mosendz and Eric Roston
June 08, 2020


https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iD3re67pHubo/v0/1800x-1.jpg


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The media keeps telling us that America is not racist
America has an "Unconscious Bias"
Inequality was an accident of sorts.

It was a strategy .......

G.O.P.'s Southern strategy
_"You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigg, nigg, nigg.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigg”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigg, nigg.”" _
--Lee Atwater, interviewed By Alexander Lamis, explaining the evolution of the G.O.P.'s Southern strategy, 1981--










Exclusive: Lee Atwater’s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy


The 42 minute recording, acquired by James Carter IV, confirms Atwater’s incendiary remarks and places them in context.




www.thenation.com












Opinion | Impossible, Ridiculous, Repugnant (Published 2005)


Bob Herbert Op-Ed column says he is not surprised to hear Republican operative Bill Bennett claim that crime rate would be reduced by aborting every black baby in country; says he has come to expect racial effrontery from big shots in Republican Party; speaks of party's relentless appeal to...




query.nytimes.com


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)




----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

If these protesters are not allowed to vent their anger there will be more hell to pay.

All the protesters are doing in the big picture is sticking their fingers into the eyes of Rich Folks after so many damn years of Trickle Down Economics.

When Rich Folks get angry at a situation they too strike out.
Rich Folks stream money into the political campagin of the opponent and oust the politician.

Poor People can not buy influence .......
They got to act out on Main Street.

America is a huge country, .... So what if some group is annoying us while occupying 1000 sq.ft.? They are occupying a space hardly bigger than an arena. Where is the "continuous" real violence?


----------



## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

I found the documentary 13th on netflix is a good way help understand in a more concrete way what is meant by systemic/ subconscious racism and what BLM is fighting for. Worth a watch.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)




----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

There is a young woman sitting down near the Trump Campaign event.
That image is iconic ....... that female protester will go down in history just like that person standing in front of tanks in China.
There are claims that the protester broke no laws.
Tiananmen Square protests way back when.








1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> There is a young woman sitting down near the Trump Campaign event.
> That image is iconic ....... that female protester will go down in history just like that person standing in front of tanks in China.


Yeah, a protestor at a Trump rally is exactly the same as a man standing in front of tanks in a communist country.

If she really wants to impress me she can protest the anarchy in downtown Seattle.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> Yeah, a protestor at a Trump rally is exactly the same as a man standing in front of tanks in a communist country.
> If she really wants to impress me she can protest the anarchy in downtown Seattle.


.
Yes. I see your point. In my mind it was just a protester making a scene at a Trump Rally.
Because I am not an American citizen, I don't think so much about Republican or Democrat. I do not see any difference between political parties. They just play musical chairs and which gives an illusion of democracy.

Take a peek at the inequality and wealth distribution within the Northern Hemisphere 
...... And the supreme court said it was all legal.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> Take a peek at the inequality and wealth distribution within the Northern Hemisphere
> ...... And the supreme court said it was all legal.


Of course differing levels of wealth is legal. It's legal everywhere except communist countries and dictatorships where no one except the ruling class is allowed to have wealth.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I think that the wealth inequality is shameful ...... almost criminal.
There is absolutely no excuse or sound reasoning for such wealth inequality.

And if I was young again..... (now 72) had life to begin again ..... I would just go and take it!
And if I could not manage to take it, I would make damn sure that Rich Folks did not enjoy the wealth. Let them remain home and count it.
Enough Is Enough!
I tire of the excuses.
I tire of the greed hiding behind a constitution.

CPPIB Spent 3.2 Billion Dollars On Expenses to babysit 392 billion in the pension fund,

Why the man responsible for our national pension plan thinks it’s OK to spend $3.2B on expenses
Mark Machin may not be a household name, but as CEO of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB), the Englishman probably has a greater influence on your retirement plans than any politician, bank executive or stock broker. He’s the guy ultimately responsible for how the $392 billion in our national pension fund is invested, after all.
So far, things seem to be going well. The CPPIB annual results released last week showed the fund had grown by $36 billion in the fiscal year ending March 31, averaging an annual return of 11.1 per cent over the last decade.
After the release Machin — a former Goldman Sachs executive — sat down with the Star to talk about what kind of shape the CPP is in, what keeps him up at night and whether the $3.2 billion the CPPIB spent on expenses this year were worth it.
By Josh Rubin
May 20, 2019








Why the man responsible for our national pension plan thinks it’s OK to spend $3.2B on expenses


Canada Pension Plan Investment Board CEO Mark Machin talks about how the plan made an 11 per cent average annual return over the past decade




www.thestar.com












Mark Machin - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> And if I was young again..... (now 72) had life to begin again ..... I would just go and take it!
> I tire of the greed....


You want to steal what someone else worked hard for but you accuse others of greed. You're the greedy one.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

No ..... I want to recover some of the taxes due under the Fairness Doctrine.
Obviously the Rich Folks gained far too much in comparison to other human beings in the neighbourhood,
A policy mistake was made. Not enough tax has been paid by the Rich Folks.
We just need to hold the Rich Folks for ransom.
Shame them! .... Demand that Rich Folks throw some cash into the pot.

Poor People need to demand a Debt Jubilee


Debt Jubilee - Google Search


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I read some summer weather forecast and it claimed that this summer heat is going to be extremely hot.

How will the police be able to man the barricades on those hot summer days and day upon day breathing in the air filled with tensions?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump people tested positive for COVID at the Tulsa rally. It has all the potential to be a disaster.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Bankruptcy is debt forgiveness, but it won't be the poor who will be mostly involved. It will be middle class home owners, business owners and landlords seeking protection.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Trump could ger real mouthy tonight and may very well start the civil war tonight with some "Dare" or some "Tease" aimed at his opposition. 
He may need to be airlifted out of the arena as the speech continues into hour 2 or 3.
Lots of time for protesters to organize and to arrive to surround the event.
I just can't wait til he takes the stage.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

calm said:


> Mark Machin may not be a household name, but as CEO of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (CPPIB), the Englishman probably has a greater influence on your retirement plans than any politician, bank executive or stock broker. He’s the guy ultimately responsible for how the $392 billion in our national pension fund is invested, after all.


I doubt he has even a trifling impact on the retirement plans of most on cmf. If you had not noticed, the holy grail on this board is to be out of the workforce long before 65. For most, that means not being able to come close to maxing out on CPP. So I think most here do not take CPP into account in planning retirement, since it will be a pittance, perhaps to be seen many years into retirement.

Even for those who hit max, for being so foolish as to work long enough to earn it, it's not exactly an amount on which one can live. For most here, I would expect it to be seen as a bit of gin money. Were it taken away, it would hardly be noticed. 

I fully expect that for many of us, CPP will disappear in the next few years. It will be clawed back. I am already denied the OAS or whatever it's called welfare cheque, being considered rich by Canada. After all the free money dispensed due to C-19, government will be working overtime to recoup. CPP will be an easy target. It will probably be tied to OAS. So, if you make about $120k a year or so in retirement, kiss it goodbye.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

China is eyeing high-tech ‘surprise PEARL HARBOR’ attack on US electric grid… using ‘stolen’ American technology, report claims


Beijing might be plotting a first strike attack on the US, which would target the country’s electric grid with a large electromagnetic pulse (EMP), sending it into a massive blackout, a new report warns.




www.rt.com






Mukhang pera said:


> I doubt he has even a trifling impact on the retirement plans of most on cmf.


.
To charge 3.2 billion in fees to babysit the 392 billion CPP fund is a total rip-off.


----------



## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

calm said:


> China is eyeing high-tech ‘surprise PEARL HARBOR’ attack on US electric grid… using ‘stolen’ American technology, report claims
> 
> 
> Beijing might be plotting a first strike attack on the US, which would target the country’s electric grid with a large electromagnetic pulse (EMP), sending it into a massive blackout, a new report warns.
> ...


Is that the amount paid by CPP for his services for one year? A handsome fee by any standard. Sounds a bit inflationary all right. But still, whether he gets that amount or 10 times that won't make a bit of difference to my bottom line. And that applies, i believe, to most here. 

As I said, CPP is not something to be taken as a serious component of retirement income. Nothing the government controls ever should. Some will say CPP is different because they contributed. I say I have contributed to everything funded by taxes. No difference. I have contributed, a lot, to the OAS and GIS being paid to those who chose not to save for retirement. My CPP will be next to be sacrificed on the same altar.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Mukhang pera said:


> Is that the amount paid by CPP for his services for one year?


.
Yes, fees for one year. Highway robbery and these types of managers are found throughout the U.S. Capitalist System.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Rather than tearing down statues, the protesters should tear down parts of the constitution because .....

"the Constitution is a plan of government created by slaveholders for slaveholders in order to maintain their wealth and perpetuate their grip on power."

The U.S. Capitalist System Charter for modern day slaveholders.

Edit:
George Washington was worth better than half a billion dollars in today’s money








What it was like to be George Washington, who built a fortune off slaves and became one of America's richest presidents


George Washington had an estimated net worth of $525 million, in today's dollars. But Donald Trump is a billionaire.




www.businessinsider.com





And the newly elected government must completely alter the present supreme court and add as many judges required to gain total control of the court.

Good Constitution Info:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1273999020000710657


----------



## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

calm said:


> .
> Yes, fees for one year. Highway robbery and these types of managers are found throughout the U.S. Capitalist System.


No no, according to many here, these are examples people making money fair and square, by working harder than the next guy. The money is theirs, and questioning how they made (legally stole) it, is no ones business.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Right now we got some protests from the "Visible Minority" community.
We are told that they are protesting because of racism.
And it just so happens (with an "Unconscious Bias") that minorities are poor.
It just so happens (with an "Unconscious Bias") that the State is beating and attacking Poor People.
The U.S. Capitalist said (with an "Unconscious Bias") that being black means that you must of made some poor choices.
Nobody's fault but your own.

(The Capitalists said the same thing about me and my friends too.)

Years ago, in Europe, during the great depression poor people attacked and burned pawn shops.
It just so happens (with an "Unconscious Bias") that many pawn shop owners were Gypsies and Jews .

Question:

What needs to be done to have these Poor People walk away while feeling "Richer" ?


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

This article is best research I have read on the topic thus far.

Makes yuh wonder what kind of person would beat Poor People?
Is the economy that bad that somebody would beat people over the head just to pay the rent?
Congress has huge money in the next economic bailout, for "First Responders" and they are going to give Royal Treatment to these "Forces" and promise the families huge "Socialist" benefits of medical, education and life insurance. First Responders will be the Mail Man, the meter reader and a zillion more.) They will all be deputized and paid hansomely.
....

This is not only a time of growing protest against police violence but also against the mistreatment of workers. Over the last two years, there has been a record number of strikers not seen in 35 years. PayDay Report counts more than 500 strikes in the last three weeks with a peak number on Juneteenth at “29 ports across the West Coast” and the UAW stopping production on all assembly lines “for 8 minutes and 46 seconds to honor George Floyd.”
They have tracked more than 800 strikes since March.


https://paydayreport.com/covid-19-strike-wave-interactive-map


----
Repression by the power structure with militarized police and the National Guard has failed to stop the protests. Democrats have failed to divert the movement of the energy into the elections, as Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi have offered inadequate reforms such as more police training. Fundamental changes are needed.
Police will continue to make efforts to shut down the unrest. The FBI and local police have a long history of combatting movements. In addition to the violent response that has been well documented against the current rebellion, we should expect infiltration, surveillance, creation of internal divisions, and other tactics, even murder.

All of these acts against labor, civil rights, peace, environmental, and other movements have happened before and we should expect them again. Documents show a nationwide effort of police and the FBI to defeat the Occupy Movement that included entrapment of activists in crimes.

There has also been aggressive police violence against people protesting pipelines and seeking climate justice.

Black activists continue to be a major focus of the FBI and law enforcement. Media Justice and the ACLU reported last week that one million pages of materials on FBI surveillance were discovered in a FOIA request showing widespread surveillance of black activists.

Police Violence And Racism Have Always Been Tools Of Capitalism
By Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers
June 21, 2020








Police Violence And Racism Have Always Been Tools Of Capitalism - PopularResistance.Org


The system-wide challenges the United States faces with policing are entrenched and deeply rooted. When the historical and current practices of police are examined, it is evident police have been designed to uphold the status quo including racial injustice and class inequality. Whenever...




popularresistance.org




----


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

“If America is the culmination of Western white civilization, as everyone from the Left to the Right declares, then there must be something terribly wrong with Western white civilization. This is a painful truth; few of us want to go that far…. The truth is that Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, Balanchine ballets, et al, don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone—its ideologies and inventions—which eradicates autonomous civilizations wherever it spreads, which has upset the ecological balance of the planet, which now threatens the very existence of life itself.” 








Smashing Culture


At the start of French Revolution, Bertrand Barère declared, “The revolutions of a barbarous people destroy all monuments, and the very trace of the arts seems to be effaced. The revolutions of an enlightened people conserve the fine arts, and embellish them ” Soon after, though, thousands of...



www.unz.com


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

calm said:


> The truth is that Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, Balanchine ballets, et al, don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone—its ideologies and inventions—which eradicates autonomous civilizations wherever it spreads, which has upset the ecological balance of the planet, which now threatens the very existence of life itself.




Damn, I think it's important that everyone takes their meds every day, and on time.

ltr


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Not exactly representing the best the police have to offer.
Fired Wilmington cop: “We are just going to go out and start slaughtering them f—— ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” [Free read] | Port City Daily


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Question: Should people from the oppressor group tell the oppressed people how to conduct their resistance?

Should Jews tell Palestinians what form their resistance to Israeli oppression should take? During World War II should Germans have directed Jewish, Roma, Slavic resistance in the concentration camps?

Nowadays, should whites be telling Blacks how to resist systemic racism — a racism entrenched by segments (and maintained by a plurality) of White society?
--Kim Petersen, June 24th, 2020--


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

A bit of historic background: RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Pentagon has concerns the police are becoming "militarized" and are going to stop the practice of donating their used equipment to the police forces.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

What is most concerning is too often these police officers who got caught on video, have lengthy records of disciplinary problems.

Those officers should have been removed through progressive discipline steps a long time ago. It is the fault of the police chiefs and community boards.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

sags said:


> Those officers should have been removed through progressive discipline steps a long time ago. It is the fault of the police chiefs and community boards.


Actually, it's the fault of police unions and qualified immunity that protects the officers. The police chiefs and community boards actually have no power when it comes to discipline, so let's put the blame where it really lies.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

It isn't the unions. It is the various State laws that need to be changed.



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2020-06-19/black-california-police-chiefs-let-us-quickly-fire-bad-cops


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

sags said:


> It isn't the unions. It is the various State laws that need to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2020-06-19/black-california-police-chiefs-let-us-quickly-fire-bad-cops


I've already mentioned the qualified immunity as an example. The point is that the issue isn't at the police chief or community oversight level. It goes higher and police unions play a large role in it. Basically, all these recent firings are going to see the police officers back on the job thanks to pressure by the police unions.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

bgc_fan said:


> A bit of historic background: RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS.


.

I am a white person, and the topic about racism has always been of interest to me.

I chased that film down that you referenced. I enjoyed it.
I could only find 1 of 3 parts.

Race : The Power Of An Illusion - The Difference Between us
PBS
California Newsreel
Written, Produced and Directed By Christine Herbes-Sommers
Narrated By CCH Pounder
2003


https://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm


Transcript:




__





RACE - The Power of an Illusion . About the Series | PBS






www.pbs.org




(YouTube Video)





I have a large collection of articles and commentary on this topic, and which I have collected over a 20 year period.
(A single .html page of text)

I also have a collection of Police Brutality articles and commentaries.

I always well remember this particular video.

A Class Divided -The Daring Lesson
Jane Elliott divides her 3rd graders into blue and brown-eyed groups. She tells the blue-eyes they are "the better people in this room," gives them privileges and comments on their superiority all day. The brown eyes must wear collars.








A Class Divided | FRONTLINE


The day after Martin Luther King, Jr. was killed, third-grade teacher Jane Elliott gave her class an unforgettable lesson in discrimination.



www.pbs.org


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

sags said:


> It isn't the unions. It is the various State laws that need to be changed.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2020-06-19/black-california-police-chiefs-let-us-quickly-fire-bad-cops


.
The Unions have almost total control over the city budget and politicians are terrified of a police slowdown and writing fewer parking tickets.
Police unions finance Pro-Law/Order council members.
No first responders should be allowed to form a union.

When the State or the Federal Government imposes cuts to social programs, the police are the first to scream for more money because they know that crime is going to increase in poor areas of the city. They cut social programs and then praise and pay raises for the police to beat people's heads in.

Quite the Class Act, eh?

I am all for unions. I was twice elected local union president. I was a charter member with one local.
But first responders must not be allowed to unionize.
It is very expensive.
Cities are forced to hire enough rank and file civil servants and have them sitting on the sidelines and available just in case a first responder goes on strike.
Corportations pay the average security guard minimum wage.
What is the least amount of money a city can pay to hire a person to beat heads with the billy club?


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

College Removes Word ‘Freedom’ From ID Cards Because It Reminds Some Students Of ‘Slavery’
Freedom is slavery
A university in Pennsylvania is to remove the word ‘freedom’ from ID cards after a few students created a petition complaining that the word is offensive to minorities because it reminds them of ‘slavery’.
June 25, 2020








130 people signed and won this petition


Change the name of Robert Morris University's student IDs.




www.change.org


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think a lot of the problems in the US is they don't put vinegar on their fries.


----------



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

sags said:


> I think a lot of the problems in the US is they don't put vinegar on their fries.


And they call “freezies”.....ice pops.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

.
Pew Analysis Shows Only 1 In 6 BLM Protesters Are Black - 46 percent are white.
June 24, 2020








Recent protest attendees are more racially and ethnically diverse, younger than Americans overall


Americans who recently protested are more likely to live in an urban area and to identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party.




www.pewresearch.org


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

A Country Not Salvageable
As a philosophic emollient one may reflect that all empires and civilizations must end, and ours is. America will remain as a place, a military bastion, a large if declining economic force. It will never again be, even by the low standards of humanity in such things, a relatively free and vigorous society. The world will not again credit its charades of moral leadership. The rot, the tens of thousands of derelict people living on the sidewalks, the looting and fire setting, the censorship, are now visible to the entire earth. Oh well. It was a good thing while it lasted.
By Fred Reed
June 24, 2020








A Country Not Salvageable - American Renaissance


Nor, many say quietly, worth saving.




www.amren.com




-
90% of police work is .....
Barney Fife








Barney Fife - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




-
5% of police work is ....
Columbo








Columbo - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




-
5% of police work is ....
RoboCop








RoboCop - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




-


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The Desire to Kill

"To think about reforming the police is to play with daydreams using a language from a different century. The culture of the police (different from the culture of policing) has silenced that ancient language with the cacophony of brutality and racial terrorism. The desire to kill is a cultural construct that goes all the way back to the beginning and the English raids in 1610 on the Chickahominy. Jim Crow is a latter day cultural mindset; it is not an ideology. It can’t be rooted out by training. And to call it “racism” is just a way of individuating what is a cultural structure of racialization.

Do all cops feel this desire to kill? Who knows? Maybe they don’t. But maybe they do. How deep in the culture of the police does this desire lie? A cop can stand idle, as if waiting for a bus, while his buddy finishes killing someone. It is too late to ask if they all do it. In every team effort, when one cop has killed, all others in the team have been accepting of it.

The cops who protested charging Brooks murderer have said, through spokespersons, that by shooting the wrong-doer, society was saved from danger. Are we supposed to respect that statement? That society will be endangered by a man who falls asleep in a Wendy’s drive-thru?

If you don’t know how to stop killing, reform is not an option. Rules, or regulations, or sensitivity training will not work. The culture that obviates listening to the people must be dismantled. There is no other way to deal with it."
----

The Desire to Kill
By Steve Martinot
July 03, 2020








The Desire to Kill


They don’t know how to stop. They just don’t know how. It doesn’t matter how many people march in how many cities calling for the police to stop killing




www.counterpunch.org


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

The same pols and pundits who not long ago were waving the flag for wars and insisting that American-style democracy was so perfectly realized that it made sense to bring it to all the peoples of the world, by force if needed, have now reversed course to tell us our entire history needs to be wiped clean.
--Matt Taibbi, Year Zero, On America's birthday, Celebrating the corporate-sponsored revolution, July 04, 2020--


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

"America is more comfortable with a black person on a pancake box than on a 20 dollar bill."
--DL Hughley, Surrender White People, MSNBC, Morning Joe, July 06, 2020--


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

All the while America is apologizing for racism, they are sending Israel 38 billion dollars. America is praising the anti-Arab racism of Israel.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> All the while America is apologizing for racism, they are sending Israel 38 billion dollars. America is praising the anti-Arab racism of Israel.


If sending an ally money is anti-Arab then it was treason when Obama sent Iran (an enemy of the US) billions.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

PG, you think the US should steal from other countries? The cash was Iran's, and Obama released it.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> PG, you think the US should steal from other countries? The cash was Iran's, and Obama released it.


You can believe that if you want. That only makes you a dupe.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

Prairie Guy said:


> If sending an ally money is anti-Arab then it was treason when Obama sent Iran (an enemy of the US) billions.


I don't think you understood my comment correctly.
Israel is an apartheid state.
We have America supporting/financing racism in Israel while at the same time claiming that they do not support racism at home in America.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The cash was frozen Iranian assets. Tin foil hat all you want. Hilarious that you criticize Obama for this but care not a bit about Trump fawning over Kim Jung Un.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

“Captain Portland”
Christopher David, a 53-year-old disabled Navy veteran, was so angry at the sight of federal officers sweeping up protesters in the last few nights on the streets of Portland, Oregon, that he decided to go and talk to them about it.
“Were any of you enlisted? Why are you not keeping your oath of office?” Mr David shouted at the officers over the noise of the crowd.
“I stood my ground at that point and just stayed there ... I did nothing provocative. They just started whaling on me with batons, and I let them,” Mr David said.
“I probably could’ve taken a lot more baton blows if they had not sprayed pepper spray all over my eyes,” he added.
A Navy vet asked federal officers in Portland to remember their oaths. Then they broke his hand.
They shattered the bones in his hands so badly that he needs surgeries with pins and plates and screws. ⁣
July 20, 2020
(YouTube Video)


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe the military vets should descend on Portland and teach the wannabees how the real military handles things.

The Trump administration versus military vets..........that won't go over well with Americans.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Given the poll numbers, I am surprised Trump hasn't resigned and let VP Pence become President so he can get a pardon for any crimes.

Maybe at this late date, Pence told him not to bother, as he wouldn't be pardoning him because Trump screwed any chance Pence had of winning.

And now, Trump is freaking out and intent on burning down the house with him. Republicans are starting to scatter away from him.

Pray the US military has taken steps to stop any crazy commands from Trump that would launch a war.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> Given the poll numbers, I am surprised Trump hasn't resigned and let VP Pence become President.........


Sounds like the same confidence and exactly what Democrats were saying the last election.

ltr


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

sags said:


> Maybe the military vets should descend on Portland and teach the wannabees how the real military handles things.


In the 1960's I read stories where Goons like these were threatened by the crowds.
Crowds screamed "Water Pistols And Bleach" .... "Blind To Injustice"
Crowds roamed the streets seeking to spray these Goons (and comrades) square in the eyes.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

And "Thank You For Your Service".


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

like_to_retire said:


> Sounds like the same confidence and exactly what Democrats were saying the last election.
> 
> ltr


And the same people are confident that Democrat supported anarchy in Democrat run cities and states will win them more votes. They actually think people will vote in an incompetent and senile Democrat child hair sniffer so they can have more of that after the election.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yea, but this time it is the Republican polls showing bad news for Trump revealing how poorly he is doing.

It is time for Trump to ask of himself.........will I look good in an orange prison jumpsuit ?

And.......he might want to consider laying off the makeup and wigs while he is there.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

OPB (the public broadcaster in Oregon) has a good summary of what's going on with the protests and federal response in Portland.

50 Days Of Protest In Portland. A Violent Police Response. This Is How We Got Here.

Trump is now threatening to send his federal police to other Democrat controlled areas. He's basically using the White House's power to harass and intimidate regions controlled by his political enemies. By doing this, he scores points with his base (especially the far right cult) and also distracts America from the pandemic catastrophe that he's mismanaged.



> (From NYT) The president portrayed the nation’s cities as out of control. “Look at what’s going on — all run by Democrats, all run by very liberal Democrats. All run, really, by radical left,” Mr. Trump said. He added: “If Biden got in, that would be true for the country. The whole country would go to hell. And we’re not going to let it go to hell.”


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Trump is now threatening to send his federal police to other Democrat controlled areas. He's basically using the White House's power to harass and intimidate regions controlled by his political enemies. By doing this, he scores points with his base (especially the far right cult) and also distracts America from the pandemic catastrophe that he's mismanaged.


Surprised that the Republicans aren't having a fit over states rights considering how much they support that. I guess they just don't care.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Some conservatives are upset with this. Judge Napolitano (FOX news contributor) criticized the unconstitutional secret police activity in Portland. I'm surprised more people aren't upset with the gestapo tactics.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

bgc_fan said:


> Surprised that the Republicans aren't having a fit over states rights considering how much they support that. I guess they just don't care.


It's because they're hypocrites who don't actually stand by their core values.

If Trump is allowed to do this, then the next democrat president can (apparently) send in federal police to defend abortion clinics, also clean up the right wing militia menace, etc --- right?

Scenario: it's 2025 and some loud group is doing threatening protests in front of abortion clinics. People are afraid for their lives (there certainly have been enough violent attacks on clinics and deaths over the years to justify this fear). So the White House sends in federal police to round up and arrest everyone protesting in front of the abortion clinics.

Republicans have, lately, become a party which are extremely selective in which American values they stand by, when. They whine about free speech when it's racist or right wing speech.

But if it's left wing free speech, then it's time to send in the gestapo.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

If the Republicans ever want Libertarians to vote R again, they're going to have to put a stop to this.

Trump has been acting more like a federal power freak, and sending in the gestapo against the direct wishes of a state really goes over the top. Remember, Oregon has explicitly asked the White House to withdraw federal police.

Personally I believe that Oregon residents (from what I know of their values) have no fear of federal intimidation. I believe that lives will be lost if this escalates, and I don't just mean protesters.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> It's because they're hypocrites who don't actually stand by their core values.
> 
> If Trump is allowed to do this, then the next democrat president can (apparently) send in federal police to defend abortion clinics, also clean up the right wing militia menace, etc --- right?


Every party has its hypocrites, the Republicans are more obvious than others.

Not too mention, anytime they take a firm stand against something, you know that in the background they are doing exactly that.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I do not have much a a problem if any government uses troops to maintain order.
But, if some trooper beat me senseless just for protesting ..... I would be steaming with the need for revenge.
I keep wondering just how much these troopers need to be paid in order to beat people over the head? Just imagine how these troopers must act on a battlefield? No wonder half the middle east hates them.
They used to claim that soldiers returning from Vietnam were covered with spittle, and if this type of stunt continues, the troops will lose the admiration of the American population.
Trump is destroying all the good will and respect towards the troops since 9-11.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

bgc_fan said:


> Every party has its hypocrites, the Republicans are more obvious than others.
> 
> Not too mention, anytime they take a firm stand against something, you know that in the background they are doing exactly that.


You just described the Democrat party. Every single thing they accused Trump of they are/were actually guilty of doing. 

Colluding with foreign governments, racism, violence and anarchy, spying, election fraud, etc., etc. Not sure why you can't see it...maybe those who lean left do so because they are easily misled? 

Democrats created the KKK and then later spun a lie that everyone suddenly switched parties at exactly the same time, and that everyone who once voted for the racist Democrats all switched their vote to the newly formed racist Republicans who switched teams. And some people are so stupid that they believe that.


----------



## Andysalman67 (Jun 4, 2020)

things may be so complicated when it comes to racism. it's too complicated topic


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

calm said:


> I do not have much a a problem if any government uses troops to maintain order.
> But, if some trooper beat me senseless just for protesting ..... I would be steaming with the need for revenge.


Well now you know what's going on in Portland. The "troops" aren't obeying the laws of the United States. From day one, both local police and other levels of police have been suppressing peaceful protesters. I saw it with my own eyes when I lived there.

Just wait until this generation grows up and takes power. Do you think they are going to forget these massive civil liberties violations by authoritarian-style police?

The heavy handed, right-wing leaning police are creating... before our eyes... a generation of people who will become left leaning and anti authoritarian. Trump is accelerating the process. He is basically "sealing the deal", that once this current wave of right wing insanity [concentrated among *old boomers* by the way] passes, the US will be taking a strong shift left.

If Trump pushes all this too far, the backlash may be more extreme than you think. He's treading on dangerous ground and helping destroy the United States of America.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

I think that the federal troops should remain on federal property and not wander off site and tackle protesters. I got no problem with troops being on federal property.


----------



## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

james4beach said:


> Well now you know what's going on in Portland. The "troops" aren't obeying the laws of the United States. From day one, both local police and other levels of police have been suppressing peaceful protesters. I saw it with my own eyes when I lived there.
> 
> Just wait until this generation grows up and takes power. Do you think they are going to forget these massive civil liberties violations by authoritarian-style police?
> 
> ...


I think its fair to say that both the left and right are currently experiencing waves of insanity. People are being pushed to either the far left or the far right, any middle ground seems to have disappeared. I don't see it ending well for either side.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

"Get off this estate." 
"What for?" 
"Because it's mine." 
"Where did you get it?" 
"From my father." 
"Where did he get it?"
"From his father." 
"And where did he get it?" 
"He fought for it." 
"Well, I'll fight you for it." 
--Carl Sandburg--


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> Well now you know what's going on in Portland. The "troops" aren't obeying the laws of the United States. From day one, both local police and other levels of police have been suppressing peaceful protesters. I saw it with my own eyes when I lived there.


I don't believe you.


----------



## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

I think @calm and @sags would appreciate this old cartoon.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Good cartoon..........reminds me of my union days printing the news letter for the local.

Personally I think Canada has found a nice niche between capitalism and socialism. We love our social programs but recognize that capitalism pays the bills.

It is a fine balance, but we seem to have done pretty darn good over the past 100 plus years in finding that balance.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The concept that unions and socialism hate business doesn't mesh with the reality at all.

As a union leader at times, we were in constant talks with the company to figure out how we can raise the level of benefit for our members, while at the same time ensuring the company would remain profitable and in business. We viewed it as a partnership that should benefit all parties. During good economic times the company agreed to raise benefits and during economic downturns the union agreed to lower benefits to the levels necessary to support the company.

During economic downturns when the company is struggling, it is the union leadership that stands in front of the workers and tells them they will have to give up some benefits to keep the company in business. The workers trust the union and it is a much less contentious issue than if the company simply put out a letter reducing the benefits. I remember when GM was struggling and the union gave up many concessions. Many days vacation and pay were given up. Lower wages and freezing pension cost of living raises were affected. Some of the changes have been permanent since then. The health care benefits was spun off into the ASR Trust which relived the auto makers of that financial responsibility. 

People never been involved with union leadership aren't aware of the constant interaction between the union and company to solve joint problems.

As unions disappeared workers lost their voice at the table. We would do well to encourage more unionism to restore the balance.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> As unions disappeared workers lost their voice at the table. We would do well to encourage more unionism to restore the balance.


Get unions to work with the employers to ensure the mutual success.
As it is North American unions seem intent on sucking the blood out of the employers until they go bankrupt. 

In Germany, unions actually understand the health the the employer is important.


Here Unions killed their employers.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

sags said:


> The concept that unions and socialism hate business doesn't mesh with the reality at all.


I too was elected local union president twice.
The very first line in any union contract ..... "The Employer Retains The Right To Manage".

Are police unions destroying communities in the same way that unions destroy private companies?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Unions only worked with GM when the company was bankrupt and it was a condition of getting their pensions bailed out by the taxpayer.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

calm said:


> I too was elected local union president twice.
> The very first line in any union contract ..... "The Employer Retains The Right To Manage".


Follow-up to that is all residual rights go to management. In other words, management can do what it wants as long as it doesn't conflict with employee rights. The problem occurs when you get union "lawyers" who try to argue certain interpretations which quickly fall apart. That tends to lead to conflict.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

_Unions only worked with GM when the company was bankrupt and it was a condition of getting their pensions bailed out by the taxpayer._

Not true........the Union and GM worked together for decades when GM was the biggest company in the world.

The success of GM was a testament to the strength of that relationship. It was because of their good relationship, that the Union negotiated for substantial wage and benefit cuts, some of which remain permanent more than a decade later.

The taxpayer "bailouts" were loans given to GM, which were repaid in stock. It was the Harper government who decided to sell the stock try to balance their budget.

The government should have retained the stock. GM today is prosperous and employs tens of thousands of Canadians.

The "pensions" provide retirement benefits and mean GM retirees and their spouses never have to make use of government social programs such as GIS.

The auto industry and their employees and retirees provides the largest % of economic GDP in Canada today.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The auto industry provides the largest % of economic GDP in Canada today.


Please source that claim.
I know, you won't, because you made it up, and you likely know it isn't true.

Oil and Gas is larger than the auto industry


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

bgc_fan said:


> Follow-up to that is all residual rights go to management. In other words, management can do what it wants as long as it doesn't conflict with employee rights. The problem occurs when you get union "lawyers" who try to argue certain interpretations which quickly fall apart. That tends to lead to conflict.


That is true. Many hours are spent at contract negotiations arguing over the terminology and words such as "management may" or "management will".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Please source that claim.
> I know, you won't, because you made it up, and you likely know it isn't true.
> 
> Oil and Gas is larger than the auto industry


It looks like the energy sector is way down the list.





__





Gross domestic product (GDP) at basic prices, by industry, monthly, growth rates


Gross Domestic Product (GDP) at basic prices, by various North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) aggregates, by Industry, volume measures, (dollars x 1,000,000), monthly, 5 most recent time periods.




www150.statcan.gc.ca





The contribution of the auto industry to Canada.









Facts - CVMA


Important Facts Canada’s Auto Industry: Driving jobs, investment, and innovation Facts about the automotive industry in Canada: Economic Contribution Auto manufacturing contributes over $16 billion to Canadian GDP. Manufacturing sales of motor vehicles and parts were $74.2 billion in 2020...




www.cvma.ca


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> It looks like the energy sector is way down the list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes, and the Auto Industry is even lower, which was my point.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

When I was union president at Elliot Lake Ontario and found that the company was fraudulently calculating radiation exposure records, I chose not to go to the Ministry Of Labour because I knew that it would bankrupt the company and we would all be unemployed.
I quietly settled the issue or negotiated the issue away and with membership approval.

When I was union president at a pest control company, I noticed that very few technicians had gray hair.
And found technicians were being poisoned by pesticides and were falling asleep while driving around doing service calls, I asked to form a safety and health committee.
When it was refused, I went to the company and told them that either they co-operated or I would destroy them.
I got a hearing in front of the ministry board and detailed all the incidents and which buildings that were having pesticides improperly applied.
All the while, there was a stenographer doing the transcript.
I knew that my week long testimony was going to destroy the company and I set out intentionally to do so.
I knew that the transcript was going to serve as the noose around the company in future years because of the record. It was as though I gave the company a criminal record or a Star of David to wear. (De-Branded.)
The company was owned by a huge conglomerate and I was debating with their top scientist out of Japan.
Needless to say ...... the company is no longer in existence.
And I felt better for it.

It cost the Teamsters union more than a quarter million to back my play.
All the while I was sitting in the hearing room, me and the teamster representative played the word game "Hangman" to idle away the time.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> As unions disappeared workers lost their voice at the table. We would do well to encourage more unionism to restore the balance.


Capitalism has innovated and found ways to avoid unions and regulation. They created a whole new industry which they branded with the cutesy, loving term "sharing economy" 💕 ... in fact, it's just old fashioned capitalism. But this time, the workers have NO protections, no job security, no pensions, no safety oversight, and they are subjected to cold hearted robotic dismissal (rankings & ratings).

In fact the companies barely acknowledge that the workers are employees. They're rebooted capitalism and left labour rights in the dust.

Young people today, the ones doing all these deliveries, driving unregulated taxis, etc, desperately need a union. Amazon warehouse employees desperately need a union.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Capitalism has innovated and found ways to avoid unions and regulation. They created a whole new industry which they branded with the cutesy, loving term "sharing economy" 💕 ... in fact, it's just old fashioned capitalism. But this time, the workers have NO protections, no job security, no pensions, no safety oversight, and they are subjected to cold hearted robotic dismissal (rankings & ratings).
> 
> In fact the companies barely acknowledge that the workers are employees. They're rebooted capitalism and left labour rights in the dust.
> 
> Young people today, the ones doing all these deliveries, driving unregulated taxis, etc, desperately need a union. Amazon warehouse employees desperately need a union.


The thing is they're doing commodity work.
The problem with commodities is there is no way to differentiate, and it ends up being "lowest price"

The only thing they care about is the service being offered.
You seem to think performance (rankings and ratings) is a bad way to decide.
I can't think of a more fair way.

When I buy a GIC, I look for the term creditworthiness and rate.

The thing is unions are just another bit of wasteful overhead and inefficiency. I've worked at union shops, I don't want to work at one again. It was horrible.
The reason unions are dying is they killed their employers. Pretty much the only union workplaces left are government workers, you just have to look at the ballooning deficits to see how that's working out.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Unions perform or allow the same type of "Organized" employee services which the Chamber of Commerce does for employers.

It is a valued service.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

calm said:


> Unions perform or allow the same type of "Organized" employee services which the Chamber of Commerce does for employers.
> 
> It is a valued service.


If it was so valuable people would choose to be in unions, and union membership wouldn't be mandatory.
In fact, mandatory union membership is a clear violation of our constitutional rights. But of course lefties don't care about human rights.

Secondly unions engage in a lot of political activities that are outside the scope of the labour relationship with employers.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Unions were a valued service until they got greedy, forcing manufacturers to move their widget making facilities offshore.

ltr


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> If it was so valuable people would choose to be in unions, and union membership wouldn't be mandatory.


People try to join unions all the time but the employer has huge resources (threats and retaliation) to defend against it.

Why do employer's pay dues to the Chamber of Commerce? Because they know that if they organize as a group to lobby for government handouts they are more powerful.

Unions are the same.

I have some complaints against unions too .....

Union halls are owned by the parent union (Usually American) and not local union which paid for the union hall. When company closes down and the Canadian local union is decertified, the parent union owns the hall and property and not the community where the workers built the union hall.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

like_to_retire said:


> Unions were a valued service until they got greedy, forcing manufacturers to move their widget making facilities offshore.


Because corporations have no conscience, the shareholders decided that they were not going to pay the pensions and other obligations they made to workers since World War II. Corporations got too greedy and found a person in China who would act as slave labour.

When the corporations went off shore they saddled the governments of North America with all the pension obligations which they abandoned prior to the arrival in China. In addition, the corporations saddled North American governments with all the environmental damage and clean up costs on the abandoned factory lands and properties.

Remember the stories and the claims made? ..... "Americans and Canadians are not stupid. We Can compete."

But they allowed China to devalue the currency (Yuan) so that North America was unable to compete.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Mandatory union membership means that those people who are hired after a new contract is signed can not claim to share all the gains made by union negotiations without paying dues or chipping in to cover the cost of negotiations.

My only complaint with dues is that the amount is usually a certain percentage of my gross earnings. If I work overtime I pay more dues. If there is a bonus system and I work really hard for extra money, I pay more dues.

I think that there should be a flat rate for union dues.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Some companies need a union because management does not have the skills and personnel to deal with the work force. Mining companies are notorious for this lack of expertise. People who invest in this type of venture are usually the John Wayne type and need to be tamed.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Sometimes a company demands that all contractors doing work on the property be unionized. That would be mandatory union membership.
Sometimes a company appreciates a union because they save the costs of a huge human resources department.
Sometimes union does a lot of work that normally is an employer responsibilty and the employer likes the union for this reason.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The hardest part about being a union president is when the company fires somebody.

I hated those days. The guy would arrive at my office with his wife and she was probably holding a young child in her arms. I was their last hope. If I could not help them, they had to pack their house up and move out of town. It would be as if it was me who fired them and not the company.

You will never know how many illegal walk outs I orchestrated just because I could not tell the guy that there was nothing I could do for him and his family. One time the walk out was entering the second day and I had to go out and buy 40 large bottles of booze (union funds) and give them away so that the guys were too drunk to even think about work.

Most times these discharges are settled within a few hours. The company agrees to unpaid leave and stuff like that.

The biggest compliment ever paid to me by a union membership was when a company fired me and the workers refused to go to work until I was rehired. It took 3 days and the guys were willing to lose 3 days pay to back my play.

The company fired me because while operating a piece of equipment I damaged it. It was not negligence. It was because the company did not train me properly. I did not know that you should not down-shift while travelling down a hill. (You needed to down shift before starting down the hill and not mid way.)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> Capitalism has innovated and found ways to avoid unions and regulation. They created a whole new industry which they branded with the cutesy, loving term "sharing economy" 💕 ... in fact, it's just old fashioned capitalism. But this time, the workers have NO protections, no job security, no pensions, no safety oversight, and they are subjected to cold hearted robotic dismissal (rankings & ratings).
> 
> In fact the companies barely acknowledge that the workers are employees. They're rebooted capitalism and left labour rights in the dust.
> 
> Young people today, the ones doing all these deliveries, driving unregulated taxis, etc, desperately need a union. Amazon warehouse employees desperately need a union.


Sharing economy came out of the idea to actually rideshare (digital hitchhiking), actually provide 'couch-surfing', etc. The problem is that a reliable service can't run on only scraps, and once there is any real economic incentive to do it, entrepreneurs will systematize it and make it more cost effective. 

I'm not sure how to create a union for gig economy workers unless you essentially ban the business model by making them employees. A lot of the appeal of these jobs is that you can choose your hours. Once you are an employee, your employer can start dictating when and where you work. Some of these gig companies like Instacart do this to an extent already.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> If it was so valuable people would choose to be in unions, and union membership wouldn't be mandatory.
> In fact, mandatory union membership is a clear violation of our constitutional rights. But of course lefties don't care about human rights.
> 
> Secondly unions engage in a lot of political activities that are outside the scope of the labour relationship with employers.


There is an obvious free-rider problem if you can enjoy all the benefits of collective bargaining but not pay the dues. I'm not defending unions, just pointing out that it is not so simple.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> You will never know how many illegal walk outs I orchestrated just because I could not tell the guy that there was nothing I could do for him and his family. One time the walk out was entering the second day and I had to go out and buy 40 large bottles of booze (union funds) and give them away so that the guys were too drunk to even think about work.


You were incapable of performing your job but instead of stepping away and letting someone qualified take over you chose to organize illegal walkouts and then fraudulently use union funds to buy alcohol.

You should have been criminally charged.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I once worked as a safety and health manager at a mine site.
It was during this time that Homer Sequin and the Steelworker union were just beginning to formulate the right to refuse unsafe work in Ontario.

I hated doing vehicle safety checks.
99% of the time the heavy duty equipment would fail a brake test.
It left me no choice but shut it down and reprimand the unionized operator.
With the equipment shut down, the company was not making money. Supervisors threatened me.
Supervisors accused me off being a "Meanie".
It was a unionized shop and yet the workforce felt the need to work in this fashion. The union members were not deliberately out to screw the company.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> There is an obvious free-rider problem if you can enjoy all the benefits of collective bargaining but not pay the dues. I'm not defending unions, just pointing out that it is not so simple.


Sure, but the point remains
1. We have a constitutional right to freedom of association.
2. Unions infringe on this right.
This has been argued that it is a reasonable infringement based on the workplace activities. I'm mixed on this.
3. The government has implemented unions where there was either no vote, or the vote was against the unions.
- It is very hard to get rid of unwanted unions.
4. In some jurisdictions. Ontario for instance, you lose some rights under labour legislation.

You claim a free rider problem. This is only if the non-union member gets treated in accordance with the collective agreement. That typically doesn't happen. In most cases the non-union members negotiate a superior contract, otherwise they'd join the union.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Our son is in construction for a big company. They are unionized, and do large government and commercial projects. All of the companies involved are required to have a unionized workforce to work on those projects. The government (or other entity) wants the assurance that the workers are well trained and qualified. The union ensures their workers at the jobs follow the safety rules and are trained and certified in the necessary areas. He spent last weekend working on the Gardiner Expressway in Toronto. The government doesn't want inexperienced, untrained non union workers on those projects for good reasons.

Our son has training, experience and certification in several skilled trades, but is constantly receiving updated training through the union.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Our son is in construction for a big company. They are unionized, and do large government and commercial projects. All of the companies involved are required to have a unionized workforce to work on those projects. The government (or other entity) wants the assurance that the workers are well trained and qualified. The union ensures their workers at the jobs follow the safety rules and are trained and certified in the necessary areas. He spent last weekend working on the Gardiner Expressway in Toronto. The government doesn't want inexperienced, untrained non union workers on the projects for good reasons.


You're mixing things.
The Ministry of Labour is responsible for ensuring that safety rules are followed.

The government wants to reward the unions who give them money.

The thing is IF those highly skilled union workers were better, they wouldn't need to make it a condition of the contract.

Everyone, even the people hiring them, know that if they had to compete on the open market, the union company would be less efficient, and not get the contract.

Plus the government will get back the money in union donations, either through cash, or work, or "third party" advertising.


To be clear I think you should have the right to join a union if you choose.
Similarly I do not think it is right to be forced to join a union if you do not wish to, nor should a union be imposed on a group unless a majority (50%+1) vote for it in a free election, ie secret ballot.

However I also think unions are political entities, and that it is inappropriate for the government, to support political entities with government funds.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

sags said:


> The government doesn't want inexperienced, untrained non union workers on the projects for good reasons.


When somebody gets hurt or dies and the Ministry of Labour is involved, the company is God awful thankful to have the complete expertise of the union safety and health department to assist the company in defending itself against the onslaught of paperwork.

It is not the employer who helps the worker complete his Workman Compensation application after the injury.

What used to really offend me about corporations .......

A guy sleeps in and then calls in to the company saying that he is sick and will not be reporting for work.

For years and countless years, the company would insist that the guy see a doctor before returning to work. The corporation would insist that they needed some type of assurance that the guy was "Fit" to return to work.
By the time the guy got an appointment to see a doctor and get the "Return To work Slip" was 3 days.

Obviously, the guy did his best to get to bed early so he would not lose 3 days pay.

For a Zillion years employers used OHIP to police/manage the employee absent problem. All the while refusing to negotiate "Sick" Days.

A lot of workers have "Slept-In" over the past 50 years.
Doctors did pretty good too.

Every Ontario resident paid a ransom which the company demanded each time the alarm did not go off.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Also it should be as easy to decertify a union as it is to certify one.
As it is, the union leadership has it really good, and they arguably some of the most corrupt "governments" in the country.
There is a reason they don't want their finances public.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

So let people decide if they want to join a union or not ?

Fine with me. If they choose not to join, they can negotiate their own contract with the company.

I doubt people would fare very well in that scenario. The company could care less if they stayed or not.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> So let people decide if they want to join a union or not ?
> 
> Fine with me. If they choose not to join, they can negotiate their own contract with the company.
> 
> I doubt people would fare very well in that scenario. The company could care less if they stayed or not.


Hahahah, that's why they're fighting against free votes, and pushing to have union membership a mandatory condition for government contracts.
The union knows they're bloodsucking leeches.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Nobody is forcing people to work for unionized companies. If they don't want to there are plenty of people who would happily take their place.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> Also it should be as easy to decertify a union as it is to certify one.
> As it is, the union leadership has it really good, and they arguably some of the most corrupt "governments" in the country.
> There is a reason they don't want their finances public.


When I was a local union president president, my salary was exactly what a 2nd class mechanic would get. I was not paid the highest pay scale, that was for a 1st class mechanic,
I got paid the 2nd highest pay rate in the company contract,

If I attended a meeting and had some union members with me, everybody got paid 2nd class pay rate because we were all doing union work. The union president did not get paid any more than any other person doing union business.

People only go to union meeting when they need help. When I had an opportunity to give a guy a chance to go to a seminar and all expenses paid, and when I asked for volunteers ..... It was always the same ol' crew or gang who found the time to turn up at meetings. The same ol' crew were there to vote on paying for a seminar.

It looked like favoritism, but it was because very few people turned up.

Only time somebody comes to a union hall is during contract negotiations.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Nobody is forcing people to work for unionized companies. If they don't want to there are plenty of people who would happily take their place.


Actually unions pretty much have a monopoly across many areas of government.

I think there is something morally wrong, for a union to come in and take over your workplace, voiding your contract with your employer, even if you and your coworkers don't want them there.

I'm sure the facists think it's just fine.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The union hall has a sign on the front door and tells you when they are open.

Unionism is a Democracy ...... not a perfect democracy.
Union members can attend any meeting or the members can demand a meeting and demand discussion and a vote in most any situation.
It there is something wrong with a union, it is the fault of the union members. I could not spend a dime unless I got permission from the membership and at a meeting and where my Secretary-Treasurer signed off with the minutes of the meeting where the vote was taken.

When you have a group of workers like the Federal government, ...... if the union was not in place, there are so many workers with same things in common that they all would probably join the same Bridge Club just to network with each other. (Just to get an overview of such a large workplace from fellow workers.) A union is just a Bridge Club.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Aftermath of looting in downtown Chicago: 13 cops injured, 2 people shot, more than 100 arrests, Mag Mile trashed
Hundreds of people swept through the Magnificent Mile and other parts of downtown Chicago early Monday, smashing windows, looting stores, confronting police and at one point exchanging gunfire with officers, authorities said.
More than 100 people were arrested as of 9 a.m., according to Chicago police Superintendent David Brown. Thirteen officers were injured during the unrest, including a sergeant who was hit by a bottle. A civilian and private security guard were shot and wounded.
“What occurred in our downtown and surrounding communities was abject crimina
By Paige Fry, Jeremy Gorner and Gregory Pratt
August 10, 2020








Police shooting of Englewood man reignites political debate and looting as Mag Mile trashed, 13 cops injured, 2 people shot


Hundreds of people swept through the Magnificent Mile and other parts of downtown Chicago early Monday, smashing windows, looting stores and clashing with police for hours.




www.chicagotribune.com


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Air Force helicopter shot at from ground while flying over Virginia, crew injured

An Air Force helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing at a Virginia airport Monday after someone shot at it, injuring a member of the crew, local and military officials told McClatchy.
The UH-1N Huey helicopter is assigned to the 1st Helicopter Squadron at Joint Base Andrews. It was flying about 1,000 feet off the ground, about 10 miles northwest of Manassas Regional Airport when the incident occurred, the Air Force said in a statement.
The injured crew member, who was not identified, was treated at a hospital and released.
By Tara Copp
August 12, 2020


https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article244902897.html


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

New Rule: God Is Cancelled Party
HBO - Real Time
Host Bill Maher
August 14, 2020
(YouTube Video)


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Wisconsin Police Shooting Leaves Black Man In 'Serious Condition'

Gov. Tony Evers issued a statement Sunday night naming the man. "Tonight, Jacob Blake was shot in the back multiple times, in broad daylight, in Kenosha, Wisconsin," he said.

"While we do not have all of the details yet, what we know for certain is that he is not the first Black man or person to have been shot or injured or mercilessly killed at the hands of individuals in law enforcement in our state or our country," he said.

Kenosha News reports that several witnesses said the man had tried to break up a fight between the two women and that police had attempted to use a Taser on on him prior to the shooting.
By Emma Bowman
August 24, 2020








Wisconsin Deploys National Guard After Shooting Of Black Man Sparks Protests


A video that appears to show police shooting a man several times at close range has been met with outrage. Gov. Tony Evers on Monday has deployed the state's National Guard.




www.npr.org


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

According to the latest census data, Kenosha, Wisconsin’s population of 169,000 is 76 percent white and only 7 percent black.


https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Kenosha&tid=ACSDP1Y2018.DP05&hidePreview=false



Black newborns more likely to die when looked after by White doctors

The mortality rate of Black newborns in hospital shrunk by between 39% and 58% when Black physicians took charge of the birth, according to the research, which laid bare how shocking racial disparities in human health can affect even the first hours of a person's life.
When cared for by White physicians, Black newborns were about three times more likely to die in the hospital than White newborns, the researchers found. That disparity dropped significantly when the doctor was Black, although Black newborns nonetheless remained more likely than White newborns to die.
By Rob Picheta
August 20, 2020








Black newborns 3 times more likely to die when looked after by White doctors


Black newborn babies in the United States are more likely to survive childbirth if they are cared for by Black doctors, but three times more likely than White Babies to die when looked after by White doctors, a study has found.




www.cnn.com


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