# Shopping in the US and Inflation



## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Just went to Washington State for two days for the wife to shop and to get deals. To my surprise other then cheese, milk and gas the deals are not there anymore except for maybe the dollar store. I found that prices were actually higher or the same as Canada for most items. Even hotels and restaurants offered no better prices. I don't think the inflation numbers in the states have any truth to them at all. Even years ago when the Canadian dollar was at 60 plus cents I could still find many great deals but not today. Of course you buy your booze and for some cigs before you leave the US. 

Maybe it is different out in Eastern Canada going into the US but out here the deals are gone and the poor are a lot more visible then they were before.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Here we go again on official inflation numbers :biggrin:
My views on that are well know ;o)

Anyhow, yes we have noticed that as well on our trips to the US in the last year or so (both business & personal trips).
IMO, the price gap started closing early 2013 onwards.

Several reasons I can think of:
- CAD$ is no longer attractively priced for cross-border shopping. And as Canadian monetary policy continues to drive the CAD$ down, cross-border shopping will become increasingly unattractive
- Inflation in the US, per se
- Increasing gas prices on both sides of the border making driving trips less worthwhile
- Uptick in the US economy leading to higher hotel prices for overnight shopping trips

The products you mention (dairy, gasoline, booze, cigs) are still attractively priced for entirely different reasons (protection racket and excessive taxation in Canada).
The EU deal may (or may not) alleviate the dairy prices here, but gasoline, alcohol, and cigs will continue to be priced punitively in Canada.

After all, we are "nice" people - we don't consume "sin".


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

I am not much of a shopaholic but on our recent trip we have had the same experiences. I think it also depends where one goes. We went to couple of outlet malls and found few deals, mostly clothing but definitely not as much as we had hoped for, and sometimes local sales are on par or better than what we have found. 
I am guessing when they have huge sales down there than it's still worth it if one is inclined to go mostly for shopping.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Don't know anymore. I used to buy my suits, dress shirts, and still buy my casual shoes in the US. Price and selection was/is much better. 

We were in Osoyoos on the weekend and buzzed 5 miles down to the US border to fill up our empty gas tank. Worked out to about 1.06 litre vs the 1.35 that they were charging in Osoyoos and Vernon at the time. We brought home cheese from Washington State last summer...it was about 30-35 percent less than the Canadian prices. Dollar has dropped so the savings on food may have disappeared. 

One thing for sure....there will be lots of cross border shoppers for back to school clothes and supplies. And I do not blame them.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

An overabundance of retailers in our immediate area keeps prices down, as they compete with each other.

I suspect there will be a "shaking out" of retailers in the future.

We have a consumer spending driven economy................with the consumers up to their eyeballs in credit card debt.

People can spend money they don't have...........until the lenders cut them off.

I suspect that day is coming soon as well.

My sisters used to do a lot of cross border shopping in Port Huron, Michigan.........but they said they don't bother anymore, as prices are about the same as in Ontario.

There is always the hassle at the border to deal with as well.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

sags said:


> I suspect there will be a "shaking out" of retailers in the future.


That process is well underway - has been for at least 2 years now.
Sobeys buying up Safeway and closing 50+ stores.
Metro closing out A&P stores.
Home-grown retailer Zellers disappeared almost entirely.
Loblaws buying Shoppers.

Just this week, Benix, Bowring, and Bombay Co. filed for bankruptcy.

Shaking out is well underway...question is, where is the bottom.

Competition may be slowing down the rate of price increase, but prices are increasing nevertheless.
At an alarming rate, IMHO.


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## cedebe (Feb 1, 2012)

I may be the anomaly then... I find pretty much everything I need is cheaper in the States. Organic butter at Trader Joe's, for example, is HALF the cost in Vancouver. Most purchases are made online then picked up at a mailbox place near the border, so I can't comment too much about in-store goods.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Dairy, however, is a completely separate story in Canada (protection racket).
Trader Joe's is indeed a very good grocery store - I have been there and love it.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

As with Homerunner I found few deals at the big Seattle outlet mall but I did find bargains in the old outlet malls that don't gather the same attention which makes some sense.

I agree with much you say Harold except for the uptick in the US economy. From what I saw the US economy doesn't look so great but then again back east it may look different.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

You need to be careful with the outlet malls. We read an article in Consumers Reports in which is was reported that many of the so called outlet stores are not outlet stores. They sell brand merchandise but the vast majority of it is NOT what you find in their other retail stores. Look a likes with differences in cloth, sewing etc.

We did in fact test this on two clothing items that we buy regularly-a shirt and some slacks. Sure enough, the outlet store shirt looked identical but when we had a good look we found the cotton cloth to be different and the sewing to be different. We don't even bother stopping at them anymore-especially since there seems to be one every two hundred miles or so on the interstates.


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

Wish there is a really well stocked health food grocery store like Trader Joe's in TO. 

Whole Foods is an alternative but its range here is still limited vs in the US. Maybe it is a regulatory issue....

I save buying supplements online from the USA even after accounting for taxes and shipping. I find good quality supplements significantly cheaper in US than here even for those of the same brand and dosage. My only gripe is some brands/dosage not allowed into Canada. 

End of the day inflation is still better than deflation for the general populace - but this is another discussion altogether.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

bayview said:


> Wish there is a really well stocked health food grocery store like Trader Joe's in TO.
> Whole Foods is an alternative but its range here is still limited vs in the US. Maybe it is a regulatory issue....


I prefer Trader Joe's to Whole Foods, both in Canada and the US.
I consider Whole Foods to be the Starbucks of grocery shopping - you pay for the "experience", but not much else.

Produce quality is not inherently superior to organic produce sold by other chains, but the prices are higher.

Whole Foods is a symbolism of the whole granola-munching, Starbucks latte sipping, Apple iPad carrying urban elite.
Not typecasting too much, I hope :biggrin:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

dogcom said:


> I agree with much you say Harold except for the uptick in the US economy.
> From what I saw the US economy doesn't look so great but then again back east it may look different.


Fair enough.
I meant there has been an uptick in travel & hotel occupancies, whatever may be the reason for it.
I suspect it is a factor of rising home prices off the 2009 bottom, job creation in some regions/sectors, etc.
There is generally better optimism than say during the same time in 2009.

But yes, large swaths of the US lower/middle class is still reeling under the recession with no jobs or poor jobs, stagnant wages, and rampant food inflation.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes this is absolutely true that groceries in the USA are more expensive.

I'm living in the USA now, in the pacific north-west. Groceries are MUCH more expensive here (even at places like Safeway). Basic fruits like apples and oranges were only around $1/lb in Canada (including Vancouver) but cost me a minimum of $2 US/lb here in America. If I walk into the stores today here is what I'll see. Cherries at $4/lb. Avocados for $2 EACH. Apples at $2 to $3/lb. And they're in the same terrible shape that you'll find in Canada, we're not talking high end groceries.

Same in California by the way.

Staples like rice noodles that I could buy at Superstore or Loblaws anywhere across Canada, packages of noodles that may cost under $1 in Canada are sold here for more like $3 as if they're some kind of specialty item. That's the same as Safeway, Whole Foods, and Fred Meyers which is supposed to be the "discount" location.

My average monthly grocery bill in Toronto was $386 CAD. Here in a northwest US city, my monthly groceries are around $420 CAD and the quality of produce and fresh items is no better. In fact in the US, I'm eating much less variety and less exotic fruits and vegetables than I bought in Canada. A No Frills store in Toronto will get you everything you need, excellent quality, global variety and lower prices than you'll find in the USA. *You should be thankful that you have stores as great as No Frills and Superstore.*

You know what's cheap here in America? Meat and candy. Any of the good stuff, which I actually buy, are more expensive in the US.


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

I've notice that the Outlets near the borders aren't that much of a bargain, the more you go far from the borders the better it is for the outlets (in terms of prices). But gas is still cheap for me compare to here.... I have to put 91 octane so everytime I go to NYC I am always amaze how a $20 can give me way more than here  and also scotch whiskey, actually all alcohol..... here in Quebec, its so freaking expensive for nothing the same bottle I buy here at $100 is around $55 in the US so I love shopping there.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Whereabouts in the northwest are you james4. If I did live in the US I do like the north west and would probably live there.

Harold I think you hit the nail on the head saying it is the low to middle class that we see the pain. Hotels and such can get the higher prices from the upper middle class and above who are being helped by the what the Fed and so on has done. You read about it but if you go down there you can see it. 

Skyfall the gas and alcohol is much cheaper because of taxes as Harold has mentioned. 

The one funny thing you do notice even though the population of the US is much higher then Canada is the home prices and what you get for the price. When you watch Canadian real estate shows the couple is looking for a 60 by 100 lot or something with 3 bedrooms and the price is north of $500,000 and that is their max budget. However you watch the US shows and people are looking at huge lots even acres with 4 bedrooms and their budget is $180,000. Last night I saw where a couple in Texas bought a solid but wrecked 1927 home for $25,000 that needed a ton of work and their all in budget was $125,000 which the contractor was able to do all the work with. You watch love it or list it Canada and you barely renovate the kitchen and the upstairs bath and bedrooms for a $100,000 and the house is worth $750,000 with a small yard.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

A friend of mine retired last year. He sold his house in Surrey, BC (White Rock) for $800K plus and purchased a similar home in the Blaine, WA area in the mid $350's. That is a move of about 20 miles or so.

His wife is American and has full healthcare benefits. For them, it was like winning the lottery. He is actually now entitled to US social security since his wife spent her working life in the US. Go figure.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

fraser said:


> For them, it was like winning the lottery. He is actually now entitled to US social security since his wife spent her working life in the US. Go figure.


I am not sure social security entitlement in the US qualifies as winning the lottery :rolleyes2:
There are grave issues with US SS.
IMHO, one would be far better off betting on Canadian CPP & OAS than US SS.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We visited friends in Erie PA last year for 1 weeks and we could not believe how much cheaper groceries were there but not just that the variety of things they have in USA is much more than Canada. Florida seems even cheaper but when we went to California the prices were much higher. My other shopping experience is Las Vegas and was limited to Walgreens but things like sunblock ,aspirin ,etc is much cheaper than here.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

My experience is the similar to Marina's.
Groceries are a lot cheaper in the south and south-east.

James4B, you are simply on the wrong coast, from a shopping and taxation perspective.
We have discussed this before, haven't we.

California's situation is somewhat unique given its massive consumer tax burden (carbon taxes, income taxes, sales taxes, etc.)
It is also reeling under a *man-made drought *for the last several years, which is supposed to be the worst drought there in decades.
All their food and water is being imported.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm in Oregon in a big city but I don't think it's just the coast issue. How do you explain that Vancouver has _cheaper_ groceries? It's on the same coast and even farther from the US shipping point. If anything, you'd expect Vancouver to be more expensive.

We can easily do a little experiment, I can just grab the online flyer for No Frills downtown Vancouver. Then I can compare to my Safeway, which is the cheapest grocery store available downtown.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

Fraser I prefer Lynden WA but Blaine is nice to and yes much cheaper for homes. Marina speaking of Las Vegas reminds me of how cheap it can be to fly within the US. When I fly to Las Vegas I fly out of Bellingham Washington. Las Vegas real estate is cheap but like the map Harold posted above they are running out of water from lake Mead and that will cause a lot of problems in the future.

James I would guess Portland for you since you said Oregon. Oregon has no sales tax and just across the river Vancouver Washington which you could say is connected to Portland the sales tax is 8 percent I believe. However I believe Vancouver Washington is better to live in because of lower income and property taxes.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

What I meant is that groceries in Oregon are more expensive than in Vancouver, BC, Canada

If "expensiveness" was a coastal issue, then I would think they would be equally expensive in BC but they're not. This stuff is cheaper in Canada!


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We have friends who live in Mesa, AZ for four-five months per year. They swear that their grocery cost is considerably lower in Mesa than at home in Canada. We have never shopped for food there so we do not really know.


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