# Misleading food weight



## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Opened this box of prepared chick tonight and was surprised at how little chicken there was.
figured I‘d weigh them. Box says 800g. I got less than 600g.

box included two small packs of sauce. Do you think they’re including that in the weight? The sauce weighed about 200g. I suppose they’re disclosing the weights as required (Including sauce)? Or was I ripped off?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Money172375, why do you buy anything in a box?

I'm always entertained when I get to the checkout on grocery day. The people in front of me have endless boxes they drop on the conveyor belt. 

Everything in a box is processed and priced accordingly along with its rather poor nutritional value. 

So, to sum up, it cost more, and it's worse for you than real food. Yeah, lets get some of that......

I look down at my cart and everything in there either has dirt on it or it was killed in the last few days. Cheaper and better for you.

Money172375, stop buying this crap.

ltr


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## spiritwalker2222 (Nov 7, 2017)

You also need to weight all the breading. How much actual chicken are you really getting?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Sorry to stay on topic Money172375 but yes, 800g is the total weight of all contents and likely includes the box as well.

Others may now return to their "food shaming" posts.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

cainvest said:


> Others may now return to their "food shaming" posts.


I like to think of it as re-education or saving our youth, or something that will get people to stop buying this garbage. But sure "cainvest", make me out the bad guy.

ltr


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

like_to_retire said:


> I like to think of it as re-education or saving our youth, or something that will get people to stop buying this garbage. But sure "cainvest", make me out the bad guy.
> 
> ltr


Might I suggest a slight different tact in the future like ... if you can answer the question or otherwise provide info related to the question do that first. Once you've done that feel free to add "BTW, I wouldn't eat that crap" or "get off my lawn!"  

BTW, I rarely eat processed food myself.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

It’s not something We do regularly, but with two teens, they need stuff thats quick and easy. We make our own tomato sauce, pizzas, meatballs, lasagnas........so don’t disagree with you. It’s probably a once a month item.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Yes, the weight is all contents in the box, but no the packaging. I have tried to find things that don't have 'sauces' for that reason.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> I like to think of it as re-education or saving our youth, or something that will get people to stop buying this garbage. But sure "cainvest", make me out the bad guy.
> 
> ltr


Not everyone needs to be education or have their children saved. As a parent, I always hated strangers giving me unsolicited advice with out any context. I had some 70+ male tell me that I should be breast feeding my baby instead of given them the poisonous chemicals of formula. I had a difficult time BFing and it was a sore point. The irony was my bottle only had breastmilk. I asked if he would like to try some. My point is many people know what is 'best' they make choices on their individual circumstances. 

On that note, I cook from scratch and my kids eat some processed stuff too. I try to balance out the processed stuff with some clean food. I actually have stocked up on the processed/shelf food for the second wave. I had to isolate this weekend because I had symptoms. If it wasn't for my processed stockpile, my family would have eaten take out more. The 11 year old was able to use a powder cheddar potato soup, add real chicken, bacon, broccoli, left over potatoes and cheese and feed me. Sure not as good as when I make bone broth, and may own base, but I was happy to stay in the my room, and don't think it was awful. They also made similar processed chicken tenders, put it in a sandwich with lettuce, tomato, cheese, homemade greek yogurt dressing and a side salad. 

Everything in moderation or in balance.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> On that note, I cook from scratch and my kids eat some processed stuff too.


Good for you. We've all got a story. As a single parent I brought up two sons on my own and I found that real food was about half as expensive as processed food in a box and twice as nutritious. So that's the route I went. You want chicken without "sauce"? Go to the butcher at Loblaws and get them to give you real chicken. Cheap - no sauce - very good for your family.

I can only recount what I see happening in grocery stores today as I move through the line and see carts full of boxes of processed food. Am I to think they only offer it to their family once a month? Maybe, I don't know. I wish they didn't sell that processed stuff. Obviously from the blowback here, others don't agree.

ltr


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Sorry to stay on topic Money172375 but yes, 800g is the total weight of all contents and likely includes the box as well.
> 
> Others may now return to their "food shaming" posts.


No, net weight on the package is for the food (in this case including sauce and breading) but not packaging. I never really thought that hard about this. I figured these sauces were a 'value-add' but I can see how they are useful for padding out the net weight and probably a big part of the reason why food companies include them.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Some people seem to eat nothing but takeout or pre packaged processed food. I guess they never learned how to cook, or don't care about food and just want to fill their bellies. Or too busy, could be a lot of reasons. Chances are they will pay for it in lost health as they get older but I don't think there is anything you can do about it. I must say people are a lot more health conscious than they were 50 or 60 years ago. I haven't heard the term "health nut" in years, and you hardly ever see anyone smoking anymore. A lot of people who live on junk food will wise up when they start to experience health problems. The good part is there is a lot more information and healthy food available than there used to be. When they do get wise to themselves it won't be hard to find a better way of eating.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I must say people are a lot more health conscious than they were 50 or 60 years ago. I haven't heard the term "health nut" in years, and you hardly ever see anyone smoking anymore.


Not so sure about that, 50-60 years ago there was much less processed food around, don't ever remember seeing it on our dinner table. Also note that obesity rates are still climbing and they project that'll be 1 in 3 adults by 2031. It's not only about eating healthy foods but proper amounts as well.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Smoking is down a lot but still 13% in Ontario. I think it is more socioeconomic now too, more lower-income/working class people who smoke. Maybe a way to cope with crappy jobs. Almost no one in my friend-group smokes, none of my immediate coworkers smoke.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

cainvest said:


> Not so sure about that, 50-60 years ago there was much less processed food around, don't ever remember seeing it on our dinner table. Also note that obesity rates are still climbing and they project that'll be 1 in 3 adults by 2031. It's not only about eating healthy foods but proper amounts as well.


Yeah, I remember in my youth there was no processed food, but they had just invented TV dinners. As a kid, I wanted to get me some of that action, but my mom would hear nothing of it.

I do hear a lot how people can't afford food today. What they're really saying is that they can't afford processed food. Real food is rather cheap. I look at the price of a whole chicken and how inexpensive it is and the quantity of food you get when it's cut up in a matter of minutes. 

ltr


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Opened this box of prepared chick tonight and was surprised at how little chicken there was.
> figured I‘d weigh them. Box says 800g. I got less than 600g.
> 
> box included two small packs of sauce. Do you think they’re including that in the weight? The sauce weighed about 200g. I suppose they’re disclosing the weights as required (Including sauce)? Or was I ripped off?
> View attachment 20891


Of course they included all the "food" in the weight.
You likely got less than a pound of chicken, that 600g was likely half breading and filler.

I bread my own chicken fingers, add a bit of cayenne and paprika to the breading really kicks it up a notch.


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## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

One of the biggest improvements was getting rid of hydrogenated vegetable oils. They were everywhere decades ago.

The tide is slowly turning against high fructose corn sugar, another landmine.

A nightmare for your body would have been fried chicken and frenchfries, 2 litres of coke and a bag of microwave popcorn.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> Yeah, I remember in my youth there was no processed food, but they had just invented TV dinners. As a kid, I wanted to get me some of that action, but my mom would hear nothing of it.
> 
> I do hear a lot how people can't afford food today. What they're really saying is that they can't afford processed food. Real food is rather cheap. I look at the price of a whole chicken and how inexpensive it is and the quantity of food you get when it's cut up in a matter of minutes.
> 
> ltr


During the last recession, there were a lot of shows and documentaries on food scarcity and why people eat so much processed food, especially among the poor. I found it really interesting and it gave me such a different perspective especially now during COVID. I used question if someone didn't have money why would they still get fast food or so much process stuff. A few shows analyzed how buying processed food was cheaper than making the real thing if you really nothing. Many are looking for just something to eat and don't really care about the nutrition to feed hungry bellies. I have an extremely well stock kitchen and pantry along with all the tools that any one could ever need. Many of those in poverty do not have the ability to buy when on sale, and store it. That's a huge problem right now as people are starting to hoard. 

If we compare the chicken strips with doing it yourself. I will use the actual costs in my city as I know them well and will use a flyer app and on line at Loblaws to get the real price. 

Chicken strips are on sale 700 g for $4.97, no sauce, I would guess about 500g of chicken in that box. The strips are already cooked so that 500 g net cooked weight

Cheapest chicken is a whole fryer at $2.79, the poor person will get the smallest if they are budget constrain. So lets say they get a small one for $9 at just over 3 lbs. After they cut it up and debone it, The yield goes down about 25% (that what is often calculated for bone in vs bone out). It's actually lower yield in this case because smaller chickens have a lower meat to bone ratio. So you end up with about just over a kg of chicken (plus bones for soup) Assuming you can debone chicken properly and have a knife sharp enough. It takes me about 20 minutes to debone a chicken (including cleaning the area)
Lets say you can't debone a chicken because you don't have the knowledge, tools, or time. So you buy the chicken that is on sale for $3.98 lb. Keep in mind water loss is about 15% it's about 1.25 lbs to get the same amount of chicken. So $5. 

Now, you have to add breading and seasonings. Perhaps you have some old bread ends from before that you grind up and you add in whatever you have in your kitchen. This isn't a lot. If you have to buy even one ingredient other than the chicken it's more expensive. Then add in the time prep of about 30 minutes to cut up the chicken bread it, and clean up, then you can start baking. If made my kids try to do this from scratch, it would take them an hour of prep, they are much slower than me. 

In this chicken example, it's at best a break even if you have a lot of the ingredients, plus the time, and effort. For sure the homemade strips are better for you and will taste better if done right. However the barrier of enter is having all the supplies on hand and time. I am not saying that this is the case for everyone, but when you run the numbers (which I do all the time), sometime processed is cheaper or the same and definitely more convenient. 

With the lock downs, we didn't get to go to our Stampede where my family gets there annual corn dog. So we tried to do it at home. Fair corn dog is $30 for all of us. I don't like them, but my kids do, so we just we made it at home
Hot dogs $2
Corn meal $3.49 (it was hard to find in the summer)
Oil for fryer $4 
Sticks $6 (we didn't use them all but had to buy a whole pack)
Total: $16 for 12 cheaper than at the Stampede
However, they had frozen corn dogs in the freeze section on sale 10 for $4 

Ours were so good, I question if any corndog is health. However, it definitely isn't cheaper than what you can get in the processed section. 

Time over an hours plus oil clean up (hate it)

They are many barriers to healthy non processed food. Many people no longer no how to cook, they do not have the tools to cook, or they don't have the time. We make assumptions they have a kitchen to work with.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> They are many barriers to healthy non processed food. Many people no longer no how to cook, they do not have the tools to cook, or they don't have the time. We make assumptions they have a kitchen to work with.


I don't know what to say other than we see it differently. Certainly not knowing how to cook is no excuse, but either way, my experience comes from standing in line at the grocery store and observing the cart in front of me that is being pushed by someone who certainly isn't poor and lays out their $200 for a cart full of boxes of junk. I look at my cart and it's full to overflowing and cost about $100. 

They don't process that food and put it in a box for free, compared to processing my own food - no box or labelling. You simply can't convince me that the processed food costs the same to feed people.

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Growing up....anything processed was considered a “treat”.....frozen pizza, pizza pockets, TV dinners, pogos.

I think for a lot of people, they are still deemed treats, and many people think they taste better. I’m often critiquing my friends for the pasta sauces, lasagnas, pizzas that they buy. One, they don’t really know how to cook, two, they like the taste better (probably more fat and salt), three - they’re too busy to do cooking prep, 4 - they want it and think they deserve it.

I liken it to all the other “treats” that todays consumers can’t do without - high end cars, frequent home renovations, big and multiple TVs, $1000 cell phones with $100 month plans......etc etc. I retired in my 40s with a little luck, a lot of savings and a small inheritance..........the small inheritance probably took 10 years off my working career. In any event, I offer some solutions to my friends when they ask how I did it....but they don’t like the answers.

two days I was sent a funny video about a guy whose neighbour asked how he retired in his 50s, and yet the neighbour was still working in his sixties, with a mortgage. The retired guy said something like...”I clean my own gutters, I cut my own grass, I paint my own walls etc etc etc.....you pay someone else for everything”.

for processed foods, it’s the same deal....people are just paying someone else to do the prep.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ You actually weighed the things? LOL ....


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ You actually weighed the things? LOL ....


The box size was concealing how little food was inside.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> The box size was concealing how little food was inside.


Well known marketing tool ...

Take chip bags for example, about half the volume is air pumped into the bag before sealing it.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ You actually weighed the things? LOL ....


I have at times, more for spot checking, scientific experiments or portion control. 

I was trying to figure fresh or frozen for certain meats in terms of cost and yield. Fresh is usually more expensive per lb than frozen for chicken breast. I did a few experiments where I weighed frozen breast and fresh. I trimmed the two the same weight and about the same size/shape as a control, then cooked for the exact same time and temperature. If found that the frozen ones are injected salt water for preservation and it counts as the weight. I did the cooked weight and found up to ~25% reduction of weight on the frozen vs about 7% for the fresh. There was also considerably more sodium in the frozen. I did the same thing with salmon. Since then, I seldom buy frozen chicken or salmon, instead I buy it fresh on sale and freeze as the cost is about the same when accounting for yield. 

I measure a lot of my food for different reasons.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> The box size was concealing how little food was inside.


That really does drive me nuts, these big boxes and packaging with very little food. Some with kids toys


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Getting back to the poor person chicken question. I used to buy bags of chicken legs with thigh attached, the cheapest form of fresh chicken. Get a package of the store brand breading or shake and bake. I would buy 2 bags of chicken which is 6 or 7 legs because that fills a cookie sheet and that way I get max value for what I spend heating the oven.
Boil some potatoes, some fresh or frozen vegetables, a box of stove top stuffing a packet of gravy mix and you have quite a feast for under $5 bucks per person.
With chicken left over for making chicken salad, chicken sandwiches etc.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> for processed foods, it’s the same deal....people are just paying someone else to do the prep.


The trick is know when it's worth paying and when it is not. When we have time, I cook everything from scratch, but sometimes I just don't have time. So getting processed is faster and cheaper than eating out. 

I was doing the meal kits for a while. The ingredients are very fresh and healthy, however pricy for the kit. I did a whole thing where I compared the cost of the ingredients that the supermarket, plus the time it took to get the ingredients (prorated with the rest of my shopping) and the time it took to prep the meals to the same point. I used the hourly wage I paid my nanny who would normally do my food prep, and then it became much clear. For the box, it was about $20 more to have them delivery than to pay my nanny to do it for me, divided by 4 meals, it's it was under $5 a meal as a surcharge. That's how I justified the higher expense of meal kits. However, now that I am working from home, and can pay the click and collect to do the shopping, its mores, so I can't justify it.

Same with shredded cheese, I learned you are paying someone the equivalent of $80 an hour to buy preshredded cheese. That's manual shredding, so no more pre shredded cheese after that. Pogos were much cheaper to buy processed. 

People don't realize how these small things add up. I do this with my kids. We evaluate the cost to make at home vs processed vs going out to eat. We even go over some of the smaller components such as seasoning mixes. There have been some (like the corn dog) we have said for the effort, cost, results, and frequency we eat them, we will just buy it. For others, we just make. 



Rusty O'Toole said:


> Getting back to the poor person chicken question. I used to buy bags of chicken legs with thigh attached, the cheapest form of fresh chicken. Get a package of the store brand breading or shake and bake. I would buy 2 bags of chicken which is 6 or 7 legs because that fills a cookie sheet and that way I get max value for what I spend heating the oven.
> Boil some potatoes, some fresh or frozen vegetables, a box of stove top stuffing a packet of gravy mix and you have quite a feast for under $5 bucks per person.
> With chicken left over for making chicken salad, chicken sandwiches etc.


We answered the chicken question already. We pay for sauce. 

You have a lot of processed stuff or things that could have been done cheaper even in your list, Frozen veggies, stove top, gravy mix, and store bought shake n bake or breading. 

When we were really watching the pennies (I posted about it here years ago), I bought 150 lbs of fresh chicken leg/thigh because there were under a $1 lb. We trimmed them, deboned some and used the bones for stock. We used fresh root veggies on sale (saved the peelings for more stock), potatoes. Even with stove top being $0.77 at the time, we would either bake our own bread and use the end to make stuffing, or I had a found a place stay sold day old bread for 25 cents a loaf, and would make stuffing, and French toast. Gravy was home made with some flour, maybe broth, and fat drippings that I had rendered from something else I cooked. I love Shake n Bake and found a homemade mix that costed out at $.21 for the equivalent of the store bought pouch.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

I can definitely see how cooking could cost more than buying certain things pre-made. I've experienced this myself when making certain things. For example, pizza -- the costs of the ingredients and particularly the cheese, really adds up fast. Also, any recipe that calls for a somewhat uncommon ingredient, where you would have to buy a whole package of that ingredient. That's not a problem if it's something you are going to use several times, but it's not economical if you're only using a small amount and throwing out the rest.

The reason processed food can often be cheap is because the company buys all of the ingredients in bulk, and they make the product in large batches. The scale allows them to sell the product for less than it would cost many people to make from scratch.

If you cook often and have a large pantry and freezer, you will gradually save more money once you have most ingredients on hand. But it still takes time and money to get to that point.

Good point, Rusty. It is always economical to buy a whole chicken or turkey. You can really stretch it out over several meals. And you don't need a lot of ingredients to make a tasty meal, and most of those things can be had cheaply.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

nathan79 said:


> It is always economical to buy a whole chicken or turkey.


Agreed, and the real bonus is the carcass to make stock.

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

nathan79 said:


> I can definitely see how cooking could cost more than buying certain things pre-made. I've experienced this myself when making certain things. For example, pizza -- the costs of the ingredients and particularly the cheese, really adds up fast. Also, any recipe that calls for a somewhat uncommon ingredient, where you would have to buy a whole package of that ingredient. That's not a problem if it's something you are going to use several times, but it's not economical if you're only using a small amount and throwing out the rest.
> 
> The reason processed food can often be cheap is because the company buys all of the ingredients in bulk, and they make the product in large batches. The scale allows them to sell the product for less than it would cost many people to make from scratch.
> 
> ...


You can find large frozen pizzas for $5 or less. A Ball of mozzarella that we use is easily that price on its own


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

cainvest said:


> Well known marketing tool ...
> 
> Take chip bags for example, about half the volume is air pumped into the bag before sealing it.


I think the chips are filled with air to protect the contents


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

No more misleading than a can of pineapple that says Product of Canada on the label simply because it is canned in Canada.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Money172375 said:


> I think the chips are filled with air to protect the contents


Ya ... that's the chip makers story, well ... except pringles.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Money172375 said:


> for processed foods, it’s the same deal....people are just paying someone else to do the prep.


True, but sometimes families have no other choice especially if both parents are working long hours.

For many years, when I was a child, my parents were both working and their hours were quite long. For lunches and dinners, with the limited time my parents had, these were years when I often ate processed foods... chicken nuggets, frozen pizzas, that kind of thing. Sadly they were high in fat and sodium.

It's easy to criticize people but this is the reality. There's only so much time and energy to go around, and sometimes, if your energy is depleted it's really just easiest to go with some processed food. And I suspect many families get fast food takeout for the same reason.

So yeah, preparing your own food might actually be cheaper, but it involves time & energy and not everyone is swimming in that.



Money172375 said:


> You can find large frozen pizzas for $5 or less. A Ball of mozzarella that we use is easily that price on its own


Yes, pizzas can be really cheap. A store near me occasionally had specials on large non-frozen pizzas that were $5. The thing was so huge that I could eat it over 4 meals.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Get a package of the store brand breading or shake and bake.


I just buy corn flakes and put them through the food processor - makes way more than s&b. Add whatever spices you like.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> I have at times, more for spot checking, scientific experiments or portion control.
> 
> I was trying to figure fresh or frozen for certain meats in terms of cost and yield. Fresh is usually more expensive per lb than frozen for chicken breast. I did a few experiments where I weighed frozen breast and fresh. I trimmed the two the same weight and about the same size/shape as a control, then cooked for the exact same time and temperature. If found that the frozen ones are injected salt water for preservation and it counts as the weight. I did the cooked weight and found up to ~25% reduction of weight on the frozen vs about 7% for the fresh. There was also considerably more sodium in the frozen. I did the same thing with salmon. Since then, I seldom buy frozen chicken or salmon, instead I buy it fresh on sale and freeze as the cost is about the same when accounting for yield.
> 
> *I measure a lot of my food for different reasons.*


 ... I don't disagree with that, particularly for certain folks who have certain dietary needs/restrictions.

Just that Money's picture of his scale showed 578g which is quite close to 600g despite the box said 800g of which the sauce was not accounted for. I think he was expecting 800g (approx. 2 lbs) of only chicken (wings or nuggets?) If they're wings, don't forget the bones weigh for something. If nuggets, then the price should be higher even. And even moreso higher if the nuggets are made from 100% white chicken-breast meat.

I can guess Money doesn't usually go for processed (box) foods....still LOL.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Well known marketing tool ...
> 
> Take chip bags for example, about half the volume is air pumped into the bag before sealing it.


They have to do that or most the bag would be crumbs.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> They have to do that or most the bag would be crumbs.


Actually no ... the bags are filled with nitrogen (not air) to stop the chips from spoiling. However, some have measured the increase over time where the bags contain much more nitrogen than before. So the question remains, spoiling issue or marketing?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Answer(easy): Both = win/win ... for the retailer that is.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Actually no ... the bags are filled with nitrogen (not air) to stop the chips from spoiling. However, some have measured the increase over time where the bags contain much more nitrogen than before. So the question remains, spoiling issue or marketing?


The modified atmosphere packaging is to slow oxidation but they could also vacuum pack it to save space (it costs money to move around air in trucks), problem is that the chips would be crumbled to bits. They need to inflate the bags somewhat to prevent the chips from being crushed as they are packed and handled. The bag starts out fairly full but settles through handling from the plant to the store. Pretty sure you would be unhappy with the results if they packed the bag full when they first filled it _crunch crunch_. Chips are sold by weight and really inexpensive to make.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

andrewf said:


> They need to inflate the bags somewhat to prevent the chips from being crushed as they are packed and handled. The bag starts out fairly full but settles through handling from the plant to the store.


But how much of that inflation is "chip protection" vs "marketing tool" ... 50/50 maybe? In any case, we all know that packaging can be a useful marketing tool.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

No doubt that is at play in the food business. Even just the shape of bottles can be used to be quite misleading on the volume of product. Just saying that I don't think there has been meaningful change in the fill rate of chip bags in decades, in my impression.


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