# Thoughts/advice on my situation? How to move forward.



## Michelle1983 (Jan 7, 2014)

So I'm at a bit of a crossroads right now and am not quite sure the best route to take and was looking for some thoughts/input/advice from others more experienced.  

I'm 30 years old and have worked pretty hard over the last few years to really save and work on getting ahead. Right now I currently own a condo (worth approximately 200k, with equity at 120k, and monthly payments of around 1100 including mortgage/condo fees/taxes. 

In addition to that, I also own a townhouse worth 375k, which has 75k equity in it and has a total payment of 1200 with property taxes - being rented out for $2000. 

My boyfriend and I have been talking about getting engaged lately so sometime within the next year, will likely look at building our own home. I do want to sell one or both of these properties however as I do want the equity out for a down payment (likely the condo property as the townhouse is in a better location and I can earn greater cash flow). 

But, I may try and sell that as well. The house we'd like to buy is around 550k. He doesn't have too much saved for a down payment so it will be me contributing most of it, or us not putting down much and having a higher mortgage. 

which is what I'm not so sure about - whether I should just sell both properties and put down around 300k (I will have more saved by the time we buy) or whether I should put down a lower amount and maybe invest some of the money or keep one rental as I mentioned. Would it be possibly to even think I'd get close to a 4-5% return on a lower risk investment? 

Ideally I think I would prefer to put the money down as having a low mortgage and paying off the house feels really good to me. I just like that and that's what I've worked towards with the other two properties. But then...it's pretty much my life savings in our house... which as much as I hate to say it, does kind of sit a bit funny. 

Any thoughts/advise would be appreciated.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Michelle: There is no way I would harness myself to 3 separate mortgages in my thirties. No way.

Don't you want to take some time off work this decade to have kids? How are you going to do that?

I know that your first rental property is cash-flow positive - will it continue to be if you have to renew the mortgage at a higher rate of interest? How much do interest rates have to go up before you will be forced to subsidise the tenant? And don't forget, in a rising interest rate environment, all three of your mortgages will cost more as they renew, putting more pressure on your cash flow.

I would work at lowering my risk, if I were you.

But let's not put the cart before the horse. Boyfriend hasn't proposed yet - it's a bit early to start looking at floorplans.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Keep the money separate until a lot later on. If you put it all in a shared home, then you have to share it if things don't work out.

If you guys want to buy a house together then tell him you want to 'save for it together' as well. Far more romantic.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

You'd have to take a look at how much risk you are willing to take in your life. I'd do the conservative thing and sell both properties and reduce my mortgage. Do you really want to be leveraged that much? If so, you'd have to take a very close look at cash flow and possible future property value increases.

On a similar risk point. You'd be contributing close to $200k into the downpayment, and he'd be contributing not "too much"? I think that is what Four Pillars is referring to. Think seriously about his advice ... about being far more romantic .. I mean!


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a couple of thoughts. 

1. I would definitely sell one of the properties, having 3 mortgages in an environment where interest rates may go up in a few years seems risky. I would lean towards selling the condo, since condo fees I suspect would make it harder to be profitable as a rental. 
2. I believe that the "marital home" must be split 50/50 in the case of a divorce. If you contribute a huge downpayment and then things don't work out, you'll lose half that downpayment. Just something to consider.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

They're not even engaged, and you are divying up the divorce settlement? :rolleyes2:

These guys are correct, but early... the marital home gets split 50-50, pretty much independent of whose fault the breakup is. Depending on your province, you might already be considered "spouses" if you've lived together for more than 2 years.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

If i were you i would take building a new home off the table.
I would keep the town house as a income property(you say this is more favorable)and live in the condo with your boyfriend.
You seem to be creating a problem when there really shouldn't be.
Think about building a home and sharing risk with your boyfriend/husband when you both are rooted and sure.
If he moves in with you,just have him allocate his relationship share to the non re essentials.....walk before you run!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

wendi1 said:


> They're not even engaged, and you are divying up the divorce settlement? :rolleyes2:


Lol. I know it sounds awful, but the only reason I mentioned it is because she has gathered what I consider to be a massive amount of money for a 30 year old. She should hedge her bets in case things don't work out.

For most younger people (ie 30), this isn't an issue because most of them don't have a lot of assets to worry about. The OP is in a somewhat unique (or rare) circumstance and she has to consider what's best for her and not just do what most people do, because that doesn't apply to her.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Would OP be willing to share how much of that equity was cash she put in or property appreciation?Just curious does not affect my advise to her.I would not sell and invest any of the money into a property right now.Figure out how much time he needs to save his 50% of down payment and just continue living in your condo.Pay your own mortgage payment and expenses ,let him buy the groceries.Never know what will happen down the road.


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

Spudd said:


> I have a couple of thoughts.
> 2. I believe that the "marital home" must be split 50/50 in the case of a divorce. If you contribute a huge downpayment and then things don't work out, you'll lose half that downpayment. Just something to consider.


Agreed. Why not rent a place together for a year or two? Unless you have a little one on the way, you probably don't need a whole house at this stage anyways.

By the way, have you disclosed your net worth to him? Make sure he's not marrying you to get half of a house. I remember when I was dating, I always made sure not to disclose my income or net worth early in the relationship. It's not just the guys that have to worry about gold diggers.

(Yes, I'm cynical...)


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## mahmood (Dec 30, 2013)

A question which pops out to me is what was your purchase price for each of the two properties, compared to the market values you gave us?

If you sell the condo, since you live in it you can designate it as your principal residence and not pay any tax on the gain (say you bought it for $150k, sell it for $200k, you woudl not pay any tax on its sale). But if you sell your rental townhouse for a similar $50k gain, you would have to pay capital gains tax, which is one-half of your normal marginal tax rate. So say your tax bracket is 40%, and you sell the townhouse for $50k more than you bought it for, you would have to pay 40% of $25,000 or $10,000 in tax. However, if you bought the townhouse at a bad time and will be selling it for a loss then there woudl not be any tax payable (you would get the opposite of a capital gain - a capital loss which would offset any future capital gains you incur or any capital gains you incurred over the last year years). This could actually give you more incentive to sell your rental townhouse if you have other capital gains to offset.


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## mahmood (Dec 30, 2013)

Oh and one other tax consideration, if you sell your towhouse and start renting out your condo, you'll get less of an interest deduction from your rental income relative to the deduction you get for your rental townhouse, since the mortgage balance is lower in the condo.


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## alingva (Aug 17, 2013)

I never understood what is wrong with renting? Why do you want to have a HUUUUGE debt? What is the difference if you rent "your" house from your bank which does not care about you or you rent it from someone (and do not have debt)?


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## Michelle1983 (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies to this - I really appreciate it. 

So yes, everyone is right and selling the properties is the best route to go and what I would ideally want to go. I don't want to spread things so thin and as mentioned, when the mortgage renews at a higher rate, that could be problematic. 

The townhouse would sell fairly easily I think due to location and maybe a slight profit or what I paid. The condo is fairly siimlar to when I bought (paid 198,500 and would list around 197-199, so would lose realtor's fees/negotiations). The bigger issue with the condo is that it's under a special assessment right now for some major work to be done on the parcade and it's been said that we may all have to pay 10-20k to have it fixed. The whole process has moved along so slowly and nothing firm has been determined yet, but it's in the condo docs so buyers may be put off. 

I would want to sell the condo though and then the idea would be to move in together, him and I into the townhouse. It's a better place for us and we both are people who like a bit more space so a 1 bedroom condo is a bit tight. Plus i work from home so wouldn't have much of a private work area if he was living in here with me. (he owns a condo too so similar situation). 

The bigger question is what to do when we do buy the house. If we both live in the townhouse for a while, I can put the equity that's in the condo (120k) down on that but when that sells, I either put it down on our house or ?? I feel like it's unfortunate if I don't because then I'm paying so much more interest each month on that mortgage than what I otherwise would have been. The idea of saving together is not bad, but I do want to be in a better house in the next 1-3 years because since I do work from home, a better office would be ideal and the townhouse doesn't even have that. Plus it's just what I've been saving for so hard for so long. Realistically we aren't going to save that much together in a 1-2 year time span though.

So if I took the 300k and put it into investments, would it be reasonable to expect a return that would help offset the additional mortgage fees I'd pay? I guess I'm just not sure what to do with that money if it doesn't go down. 

He doesn't know my full income/net worth but does know that I have a lot down on both of these places. 

Originally it wasn't sitting too badly with me to put more down than him... as long as we were both in the same mindset and saving hard to get ahead and pay off that mortgage. But a few nights ago it came out that he's giving almost 1k a month to his parents. They don't need it (that would be a different story if they did), so I'm just not sure how I feel now. I'm saving so hard for 'us' and he's giving away money that could be used for our future... so that's really sitting not so well with me. It came out at a time that didn't really allow me to get too much more into why he's giving them money and so on, so I think it's something I need to bring up and talk about more. 

I feel almost bad though... do you think it's in my right to bring that up and feel a little upset over it? I know taking care of his parents if something happened and they needed help is vital to him, which is fine and i get, but they don't need help right now, at least from everything I can see. 

So that's kind of what prompted all of this thinking in the first place. If he's not so committed for saving hard for our future, I'm feeling a little hurt I guess that I am and am rethinking how much I should be putting down now. 

Oh and there's nothing wrong with renting for sure, but for the long term, I do want to buy. I want to turn the basement into a studio and it'd be a little hard to do what I want in a rental.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

It sounds like you guys haven't really talked through all the stuff you need to talk about. He doesn't know key info about you, you didn't know about him giving money to his parents.

Unless he was lying about it, I don't think you should be upset - it really sounds like not enough communication has happened yet.

Not really a big deal - but it should happen before you guys start buying houses together or start sharing a house (see previous comments on split ups).


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Oh, honey.

There are two separate problems here. One is a finance question - and the answer is diversification of asset classes. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Once you start looking for a diversified portfolio, you will see lots of examples and note that they do not come with guarantees. (couch potato, couch potato, couch potato....)

The other is that you are already making sacrifices and building a family and a future with this guy in your imagination, and he doesn't seem to have the same vision. Sure, talk to him. 

But I wouldn't bother getting upset right now, consider it a fact-finding mission.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> Keep the money separate until a lot later on. If you put it all in a shared home, then you have to share it if things don't work out.


That's not the way it works (in Ontario). In case of separation, you get back what you put in (ie what you came into the marriage with) first and the reset is split. 

So if spouse 1 puts 100k down on a 500k house and spouse 2 puts down 0, then upon separation, spouse 1 gets back the 100k first. Next there is a 50-50 split of any increased net value of the home. 

Ex: house appreciates to 700k, with a total of net value of 400k (ie 300k in mortgage), then 
- Spouse 1 gets 100k + 50% of the remaining 300k of value = 250k
- Spouse 2 gets 50% of the 300k value = 150k

Complete financial disclosure between two people considering getting married is critical in my mind. Who knows what the other person has (liabilities or asset wise). Could be a big shock to the other spouse.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Xoron said:


> That's not the way it works (in Ontario). In case of separation, you get back what you put in (ie what you came into the marriage with) first and the reset is split.


This is true for most assets, but the matrimonial home is an exception. It gets split evenly.

Here is my example:

Spouse 1 puts $550k cash down on a house they live in and spouse 2 contributes zero. 

House appreciates just enough over two years to pay all the selling costs.

Upon separation, spouse 1 gets $275k and spouse 2 gets $275k.

And a prenup will accomplish nothing to change that.

This is why the OP has to think about what they are doing. If they put in $200k into a shared house, they are literally giving the partner $100k. I'm not saying keep your money separate forever, but give it some time and make sure.

Some of the comments about her paying the rent and he pays for other stuff are nonsense.



Xoron said:


> Complete financial disclosure between two people considering getting married is critical in my mind. Who knows what the other person has (liabilities or asset wise). Could be a big shock to the other spouse.


Absolutely.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree with wendi1's comments herein. Way too much focus on buying up houses. It almost seems like the OP is playing a game of Monopoly LOL. There was another poster on here recently who was doing a similar thing while living with parents. Not sure it's a good idea to badger so much monthly income towards such overpriced assets. The liabilities and cash flow impact are too high. It looks to me like just a big money movement exercise. I do understand there are lots of emotional aspects involved, which is what makes it tough. I still say listen to wendi1.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

wendi1 said:


> But I wouldn't bother getting upset right now, consider it a fact-finding mission.


Agreed; you know nothing about the $1K; maybe that is repayment of a loan from his folks.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

If you can't trust your SO/spouse implicitly when it comes to money......be afraid, be very afraid.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Consider reading Garth Turner's 'Greater Fool' blog regularly.
That will dampen your thoughts of owning more than what you need to live in.

Yes, he is a bit 'chicken little the sky is falling' regarding real estate being overvlued and set for a tumble.
I find he is a nice balance to the crap the newspapers print straight from the mouths of real estate boards without any critical evaluation or editorial balance.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Look at all this lovely (unsolicited) advice, with rational follow-up posts, about separation, trust, and protecting yourself. I'm sure when Michael1983 shows up we'll all be equally calm and helpful in our discussions... :encouragement:


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## mahmood (Dec 30, 2013)

alingva said:


> I never understood what is wrong with renting? Why do you want to have a HUUUUGE debt? What is the difference if you rent "your" house from your bank which does not care about you or you rent it from someone (and do not have debt)?


Because when you "rent" "your" house from the bank you're only paying a 3%, maybe 3.5 % rate of "rent" on the portion of the house that you don't own. However, when you rent in the traditional sense of the word, you're paying more like 7 to 8% of the property's value that you don't own (which would be 100% of it). There are some other factors like the ability to move easier without incurring selling costs, lack of property tax expense, etc. but overall 9 times out of 10 you're in a much better position to have a mortgage long term than rent. I can understand renting only when you're unsure how long you will live in a certain place or if you don't have enough saved for a down payment.


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## Michelle1983 (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks again for the replies. Yeah, we definitely need to have more talks about money I think and I need to find out more about the 1k. It isn't payback for a loan though, but I'm going to talk to him about it more. 



Xoron said:


> That's not the way it works (in Ontario). In case of separation, you get back what you put in (ie what you came into the marriage with) first and the reset is split.
> 
> So if spouse 1 puts 100k down on a 500k house and spouse 2 puts down 0, then upon separation, spouse 1 gets back the 100k first. Next there is a 50-50 split of any increased net value of the home.
> 
> ...


I was talking to my accountant the other day about stuff and he figured this was the case as well as long as proper documents were drawn up before the marriage. But yet I've heard others swear by what Four Pillars said. I think I need to consult a good lawyer perhaps and get that figured out as that would make a big difference. 

As far as diversification, I have heard that before. There are stocks/bonds/mutuals that would offer a return that would benefit close to what I would by putting all that money down? I know the more risk the potential higher the payoff but in a moderate risk fund is that possible? I talk to my dad at times on this and he does a fair amount of stock investing and always tells me nothing will match me putting money down on my mortgage. 

Thanks for that blog mention as well. I'll check it out.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

mahmood, I kind of understand what you are saying above and the part about a *long term* mortgage being better is a good one, as is renting being better if you don't have enough down payment. There is one other aspect to mention as well, that is your numbers assume the rent and mortgage payments are the same. They are not. Owning a house or a condo comes with many added expenses that are typically included in rent so the all-in monthly outlay of cash on typical expensive houses such as those mentioned by the OP means you are on the hook to pay out more money every month than with renting. Plus you lose the opportunity cost of your down payment money as well as the money paid to lawyers and realtors and the govt on land transfer tax. I know you mentioned this point but I feel it needs to be emphasized more strongly. Nobody really knows if they will be able to stay in their mortgage long term when they sign. It's a crapshoot.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Michelle1983 said:


> I need to consult a good lawyer


That's exactly it!


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

Nemo2 said:


> If you can't trust your SO/spouse implicitly when it comes to money......be afraid, be very afraid.


Unfortunately you never know how much you can trust someone until it's tested by serious decisions. Talking about the future is just that, talk.



Ponderling said:


> Consider reading Garth Turner's 'Greater Fool' blog regularly. I find he is a nice balance to the crap the newspapers print straight from the mouths of real estate boards without any critical evaluation or editorial balance.


I save a lot of time and don't read any of it 



mahmood said:


> Because when you "rent" "your" house from the bank you're only paying a 3%, maybe 3.5 % rate of "rent" on the portion of the house that you don't own. However, when you rent in the traditional sense of the word, you're paying more like 7 to 8% of the property's value that you don't own (which would be 100% of it). There are some other factors like the ability to move easier without incurring selling costs, lack of property tax expense, etc. but overall 9 times out of 10 you're in a much better position to have a mortgage long term than rent. I can understand renting only when you're unsure how long you will live in a certain place or if you don't have enough saved for a down payment.


Let's not forget to include property tax (around 1%), insurance (0.25-0.5%), and repairs (1-2%) that all come with ownership. And increase (maybe double) the interest rate since you can't really lock in 3% until it's all paid off. And that's excluding surprises. The ground moves a lot around here so some nice big bills can come out of nowhere. It's also not counting all the time you have to spend managing repairs and renovations. And don't pick the wrong contractor or you'll have to pay for them twice! On top of that, the transaction costs make it a generally bad idea to own a house for less than 5 years which can be hard with a growing family. When you have to buy the house you might need in 5-7 years you're spending a lot on an uncertain future, compared with renting and moving whenever you need to. Many houses are larger than people need and too far away from where they spend a lot of time, adding to the cost. When you're renting there is a wide variety of choices that are cheaper than owning, at least initially. But then if you don't have the discipline to invest all the money you save by renting then you will eventually face higher costs.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

Michelle1983 said:


> I was talking to my accountant the other day about stuff and he figured this was the case as well as long as proper documents were drawn up before the marriage. But yet I've heard others swear by what Four Pillars said. I think I need to consult a good lawyer perhaps and get that figured out as that would make a big difference.


The best predictor of someone's future is their actions today. If you don't even know what they're doing now... well you don't know what you don't know 



Michelle1983 said:


> As far as diversification, I have heard that before. There are stocks/bonds/mutuals that would offer a return that would benefit close to what I would by putting all that money down? I know the more risk the potential higher the payoff but in a moderate risk fund is that possible? I talk to my dad at times on this and he does a fair amount of stock investing and always tells me nothing will match me putting money down on my mortgage.


It's very unusual for mortgage interest rates to be as low as they are today. The yield on typical Canadian bonds was 2.67% yesterday so that's about what you can expect to get from them over the next 5-10 years. On Canadian stocks the dividend yield is 2.67% and the earnings yield (dividends plus the profits that the company keeps to do as it pleases, hopefully to your eventual benefit) is 6.25%. So I would expect that a portfolio that is mostly stocks will do better than paying down a mortgage, if you give it enough time and avoid making any basic mistakes along the way. Whether or not you think you can do that is an individual judgement. It's also a bad idea to invest like that if you expect to use it for a down payment in 5 years. Giving it enough time is really one of the key points. There may also be different taxes applied but in that respect paying down a mortgage works the same way as investing in a TFSA so that's one way to make sure it's comparable.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I am with others. Why not rent for a while. Rent a 3 bedroom if you have too. I'd love to rent to successful ppl like you. I also think you will probably need to live with him for a while before,doing the whole build your own dream house. It might be a dream house, butmthe habits will make it a nightmare.

I've lived with close to about 20 different people in my life. There are certain habits that are destructive to both the house and psyche. No amount of exotic wood or granite can turn carbon into diamond in terms of habits.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Causalien said:


> No amount of exotic wood or granite can turn carbon into diamond in terms of habits.


Hey, that's a pretty good line!


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## financialuproar (Jan 26, 2010)

I fully agree with what Mike said. You and this guy need to have some serious discussions about money. 

Apologies if you already mentioned it, but what does your portfolio look like outside of the real estate? Do you have money in stocks or other investments? 

And if things go badly with your boyfriend, could you afford the payments on this house you're looking at, with or without selling other properties? Being in the situation you're in now is much better than being in the situation where you have to sell.


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## Michelle1983 (Jan 7, 2014)

So him and I talked about this for quite some time today and am feeling much better now after talking. We discussed into far more detail than we have before our financial values/goals, expectations, and so on and it does seem like we do want much of the same type of lifestyle so that really helped put my mind at ease there. 

With the family, he said that it is how he has been brought up and feels like he needs to pay them back in return for raising him but also said he is planning on cutting back and then off those payments once we have our own family, so it seems like it won't be in issue in the future, however its' easy to say he won't pay them, but doing is another thing I suppose. 

This has been good for us though as all this stuff needed to be brought up and discussed more. I think either way the thought of building a house will be shelved for quite a while and I"ll just focus on selling the condo and living in the townhouse together for a while as we save together for a future home one day. 

I might look more into stocks/bonds as well perhaps. I should diversify more and after reading some of the stuff said on owning properties, I see far more drawbacks now and the risk that's there. 



financialuproar said:


> Apologies if you already mentioned it, but what does your portfolio look like outside of the real estate? Do you have money in stocks or other investments?


No problem - yeah, it's pretty much all in real estate (200k) and then savings (50k) basically until I decide what to do with those savings.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm glad that the two of you had the chat, and that you are feeling more enlightened.

His response is surprising to me. I'm not familiar with this payback for bringing me up attitude in the situation where there is no financial need on behalf of the parents. Is this a cultural thing? Or is he living with them? I can't recall if you said this or not.

Continuing to pay them after you are married sounds odd too. Why would having children change things? Does this mean reducing payments when you have one kid, and eliminating when you have two? I am unclear on "cutting back", but so long as you are, and you are happy with this commitment... Buying a house with him and paying off your mortgage with him paying his parents instead of the bank would make things much harder than it needs to be.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Well done, Michelle! Obviously you are not the kind of person who puts difficult conversations off. Absolutely continue the dialog. 

Some reading on portfolios, if you're interested...

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Four Pillars said:


> That's exactly it!


+1 

Also, good on you Michelle to look outside real estate for investments. Diversification is key! Nothing wrong with keeping your savings (50k) in cash until you have a plan. 

Plan first, products next.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

Guban said:


> His response is surprising to me. I'm not familiar with this payback for bringing me up attitude in the situation where there is no financial need on behalf of the parents. Is this a cultural thing? Or is he living with them? I can't recall if you said this or not.
> 
> Continuing to pay them after you are married sounds odd too. Why would having children change things? Does this mean reducing payments when you have one kid, and eliminating when you have two? I am unclear on "cutting back", but so long as you are, and you are happy with this commitment... Buying a house with him and paying off your mortgage with him paying his parents instead of the bank would make things much harder than it needs to be.


It's unfamiliar to me too. I've heard of occasional gifts or helping out when needed but not a full repayment. Do you know if he feels that there is some specific amount that is enough, or will it go on as long as possible? If his family asks other things from him in the future that conflict with your family needs would he resist that?

It's great that you're taking things slower. Once you can make decisions together and both contribute it will be easier.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

There are certain cultures, like Chinese that train all kids to think that way. It's called Filial piety in English. Wiki or google it. Most ancient parents EXPECT some payback / allowance from their kids when they retire. So I am not surprised to hear his action and be prepared that it may continue. What is fair is, if the son's parents are paid then the wife's parents should also be paid the same amount.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My friend's husband is from Pakistan and he sends money every month to his parents and brother , they still remind him even though he is 56 that they helped him get his PHD MANY YEARS AGO...


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## Michelle1983 (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks, yeah, fortunately he does really encourage us to talk about anything bothering us so he's quite open to talking about anything. I saw him today for the first time since the discussion and I definitely feel a little different, less connected almost but I think it's more just coming back down to reality that maybe getting engaged right away isn't such a wise plan. 

Thanks for the couch potato link; I'll definitely look at that more. 



MoreMiles said:


> There are certain cultures, like Chinese that train all kids to think that way. It's called Filial piety in English. Wiki or google it. Most ancient parents EXPECT some payback / allowance from their kids when they retire. So I am not surprised to hear his action and be prepared that it may continue. What is fair is, if the son's parents are paid then the wife's parents should also be paid the same amount.


Yeah, that's exactly what it is and that's a good point. I questioned him tonight if he would raise our kids (if we had them) like that and he said no and wouldn't expect money, which is a bit interesting. 

From what he said to me it's his choice what and how much to pay but from what I read online, it seems the expectations are definitely there and it's definitely for life, so still kind of making me nervous. He told me he'd cut them off when he decides he wants to but it kind of feels like that's going to lead to some pretty serious resentment on my part perhaps. I"m not entirely sure yet how I feel about all that right now.

His parents are 60 and he also said he won't ever let them go to a home but rather pay for care for them, so not sure what that would cost either but that could also be a cost we'd face then by the sounds of it - and he said this was non-negotiable.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

MoreMiles said:


> Most ancient parents EXPECT some payback / allowance from their kids when they retire.


Are ancient parents the ones who are over 200 years old? 



Michelle1983 said:


> His parents are 60 and he also said he won't ever let them go to a home but rather pay for care for them, so not sure what that would cost either but that could also be a cost we'd face then by the sounds of it - and he said this was non-negotiable.


It may be cheaper to have them move in... that doesn't mean it's less expensive though. Definitely good to know all of this since it's not something you would have expected.


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