# McGuinty Resigns



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

McGuinty announced his resignation as Premier of Ontario today, and prorogued the legislature. Some speculation he may run for the leadership of the federal Liberals.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-premier-dalton-mcguinty-resigns/article4614086/

First off... Congratulations, Harold--I'm sure you're happy today.

I'm curious what will happen. My guess is a temporary leader will be chosen, but once the House resumes sitting, I expect the opposition will pull the plug and vote no confidence in the government. Probably back to the polls inside of 6 months.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Good riddance. He was a disaster.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I wonder if he was "told" to resign ...


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

andrewf said:


> First off... Congratulations, Harold--I'm sure you're happy today.


Thank you, I am indeed happy, and surprised at the suddenness of this.
I have bitter-sweet feelings, though.
I'd have preferred if he'd been ousted by popular vote last Oct, instead of like this.

Secondly, the reason he quit is troubling.
It's got to be the stalemate around the 2 wage freeze bills - the teachers' and the general Public Sector.

Does his resignation mean that his party does not have the mandate and/or the political will to push these legislations through?
If so, the successor has no chance and probably no will to get this done.

That is bad - these bills have to succeed.



> I expect the opposition will pull the plug and vote no confidence in the government. Probably back to the polls inside of 6 months.


That would be the best outcome, IMO.
A week or so ago, when the gas power plants debate was going on, his approval rating had dipped to around 23%.
An election is needed.
We don't have a functional provincial parliament right now.

Overall, I can't say I am unhappy to see him go.
But, sadly, the damage has been done.
It will take many years, if at all, to undo and reverse the damage done by him.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I will credit him with a few things:

-the greenbelt and generally tidying up regional transportation and development planning in the GTA. Not all the way there, but better now
-making our education system one of the best in the world. Objectively speaking, Ontario scores very high in PISA ratings. Kind of shocking when you consider how much our current system has wrong with it
-His tax shift. Lowering corporate tax rates, implementing HST. These were not popular, vote-winning propositions, but they will stand Ontario in good stead over the long run, as they significantly improved Ontario's attractiveness to investment
-Smart meters. Harold hates them, but they are a good idea.

Now the bad (focusing on the things that really matter rather than the scandals of various proportions)
-Letting spending get out of control. He was too lax with public sector pay rises, and belated tried to rein them in.
-The feed-in tariff program. It's a highly inefficient way to promote renewable energy development, and likely to fail in achieving its stated goals of creating a domestic clean energy industry. I would have much preferred a carbon tax with either a reduction in income taxes, or a 'citizen's dividend'. Ie, just divide the revenues by the number of residents and cut each family a checque.
-e-Health. Not much more to say except a great deal of money was wasted for no good reason. This happens from time to time in government procurements, but it is avoidable. Properly executed electronic health records are important, so at least they were stumbling in the right direction. 
-health reform. I don't think he was ambitious enough to change the model in Ontario. He should have been more aggressive with implementing integrated health centres as alternatives to walk-in clinics and hospital ERs. Also, all the problems we have with hospital acquired infections are inexcusable. Skimping on hygiene in hospitals is stupid, yet common practice.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

andrewf said:


> -Smart meters. Harold hates them, but they are a good idea.


They are a good idea for those that don't have to pay for it.
For those that have to pay, not so much.
I hate them because it hurts me...big time.

Back then, I used to post my monthly bills on that thread we had about hydro usage, and demonstrated how low my consumption was (pre and post TOU) yet how my bills jumped significantly after TOU.
So heck yeah, I hate them.

Adding the HST to hydro bills was another master stroke by the king of taxation.



> Now the bad


Ha, don't get me started.
I can fill up pages on this, but the over-arching theme for me has been the reckless taxation-induced spending, and the union coddling.
Which are probably two sides of the same coin.

This theme was set within a year after he was elected for the first time - when he brought in the "health tax".
And it has been steadily downhill from that point on.
There has been an onslaught of taxes upon taxes upon taxes.

Once you account for all the union coddling, it is evident where most of that tax money went...and we are still $14B in deficit.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

There have been too many scandals under McGuilty's rule, we really need someone extraordinary to clean up his mess


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

We're fresh out of extraordinary politicians.

Unfortunately, our alternative is the rather disappointing Hudak. The best thing he has going for him is that he is reasonably sure he's not Dalton McGuinty.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Let's not forget the awful mess McGuinty inherited from the PC Mike Harris government.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

andrewf said:


> Unfortunately, our alternative is the rather disappointing Hudak. The best thing he has going for him is that he is reasonably sure he's not Dalton McGuinty.


Hudak has been an insipid leader.
His best chance was last Oct - I think he blew it by not compaigning aggressively enough and not going after the Liberal's record and policies.

He ought to have supported McGuinty on the recent public sector wage freeze bill, which is sure to be conveniently forgotten now.
Maybe that contributed towards this hasty resignation.

I don't have too many hopes from Hudak.

In the event of an election, the NDP will probably win a minority govt.


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## CuriousReader (Apr 3, 2009)

Good riddance, while he had done well, he also overstayed his welcome.

What the Liberals would be hoping (and betting) for is with McGuinty resigning, voters will forget all the $$$ wasted: eHealth, ORNGE, Power Plant, etc ... 

Now for the scary part is (if) the skeleton that McGuinty been hiding in the closet for 9+ years come out and it could turn really ugly for Ontario


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I don't know how anyone can say that McGuinty had done well. Ontario is in a deep fiscal hole. Not entirely his doing, but he played an important part.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Governments around the world are 'in the hole'. Not least Ottawa. Harper started with a significant surplus, McGuinty inherited a deficit. He could have done better, but I don't think it's reasonable to blame him entirely for Ontario's fiscal trouble.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Sure. That's why I said: _"Not entirely his doing, but he played an important part."_


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Good riddance. One of the worst premiers that province has ever seen. He left the province with a mountain of deficit, debt and taxes.

2003: "I won't raise your taxes, but I won't lower them either"

2004: "Health Care Premium"

Take the high road indeed.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

He was re-elected despite that, so the people probably don't entirely agree with you, TRM.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I'm curious what will happen. My guess is a temporary leader will be chosen, but once the House resumes sitting, I expect the opposition will pull the plug and vote no confidence in the government. Probably back to the polls inside of 6 months.


With the current state of affairs (big mess left by the McGuinty Liberals), I doubt very much if anything is going to get done in the next few months.
If I was a betting man..I would put my money on a spring election so that whichever party wins, gets a majority mandate to do something..and just maybe they might be able to "somehow" clean up the existing mess!!

However, watching the Ottawa TV news last night, there was mixed reaction about seeing him go. 
Some shouted "Hurrah!" others thought he wasn't so bad as premier in his 9 years in office.
Of course McGuinty's constituency ofice is here in Ottawa..so some still like him..

I never did like him right from the start, as I thought he lied "through his teeth" right from the beginning
of his election as premier.
Saying one thing publicly and then doing the opposite.

I still remember his first campaign,w hen asked by a reporter in 2003..
"Read my lips. NO NEW TAXES"...that phrase has stuck in my mind for all these years..so I like to refer
to him as leader of the FIBERALS!

However, He did save the Ottawa Montford (Francophone) hospital from being shut down..and it is doing quite well..but other unpopular decisions like the HST on hydro and heating, cancel any good things he did for the people of Ontario.

I guess, he found out after a year with a minority gov't and the teachers backing him against the wall, he wasn't getting anywhere at this point.

Not to mention the mega power project that his gov't decided to move from Oakville/Mississauga to the old Napanee mothballed generating station.
He deliberately tried to hide the true cost (at first it was publicly announced that it would only cost the Ontario taxpayers 40 million to move
the power generating project (deal with Trans Canada Energy)) but they forgot that the cost of providing tranmission lines over that distance back to the population centers of southern Ontario would end up costing the Ontario Taxpayer..HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS.
NOW THE ESTIMATE IS OVER A HALF BILLION DOLLARS (500 TO 600 MILLION!). 
I'm sure by the time the first megawatt flows over the new transmission lines from Napanee (Lennox& Addington) to Mississauga..it will run close to a BILLION.

_In 2012, Ontario's government announced an additional 900-megawatt TransCanada Energy natural gas plant to be built at the Lennox Generating Station site; the project was originally planned for Oakville, Ontario[10] but that location was abandoned in 2010 due to political opposition.[11] While estimates vary, the additional costs to transport natural gas eastward and generated power westward are expected to represent hundreds of millions of dollars over the lifetime of the new generation plant.[12]
As of 2012, the plant employed 160 people;[2] an additional 25 permanent jobs will be added as a result of the 900MW expansion.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennox_Generating_Station_


Ok, how are we going to pay for all this? 
a) Are they going to increase the already expensive electricity rates and collect MORE HST as a result? 

B) Are they going to add the additional cost to the existing DRC (old debt retirement charge) and
keep it going forever?

Like Ross Perot once said (when he was running for US president a few years ago)..'CAN YOU HEAR THAT GIANT SUCKING SOUND?
THAT'S YOUR TAX DOLLARS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN, FOLKS!"


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

How about a pretty graph from a reputable economics blog.

Eyeball the black line (blue squares) between years 2003 (McGuinty first elected) and 2011 (end of his second term):








Real per capita government spending increased by about $2000. All under his watch.

These are real per capita dollars, so inflation or population growth are not in the picture.

Only a small part of it was 'forced' on him by the economic crisis (GM bailout for example).

The rest was his willful, runaway spending.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Good riddance. One of the worst premiers that province has ever seen. He left the province with a mountain of deficit, debt and taxes.


It all depends on your perspective. Harris can be considered one of the worst too, so was Bob Rae. 

Rumours by some that maybe Rae will come back (since he jumped fence over to the Liberals) and throw his hat in the ring for the liberal leadership,
unless, someone else takes over like Dwight Duncan? 

Too soon to tell yet, but I hope that it's only a rumour about Rae. He also did a lot of damage to Ontario as NDP premier.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

BACK TO THE PLANET OF THE REPTILIAN KITTEN EATERS! :tongue-new:


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

A post, stolen from the Daily Telegraph comments section, that seems apropos:

Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The truth be told.........politicians are up against it.

Take the VP debates........and all the parsing of the words, searching for implied intent or meaning. Did Ryan say he would "cut" Social Security..........oh no...........what he meant was he would cut it for someone else down the road. Did Biden say what he means or mean what he says.........and what exactly did he say.

The problem is that any politicians who stood before a microphone and said......."We are deeply in debt, and the only way to repay the debt is to cut social benefits immediately and raise taxes on everyone"............would be out of the race within 24 hours.

People may know what has to be done..............just not to them. Do it to someone else........but not them.

I was amazed that so many US Tea Party supporters who were marching around protesting for cuts to Medicare and Social Security didn't think it applied to them.........specifically. They looked a little stunned when the reporter asked them how they would survive when their pension or healthcare was cut. That wasn't the plan, apparently.

Here they are in the US.....a matter of a few weeks before the Presidential election...........and can anyone say for sure what exactly Mitt Romney would do about anything? How about Obama...........what is his big plan?

McGuinty was a spender.........because the voters love spenders.

The next one will be a spender too............or he either won't last long...........or won't get elected at all.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

sags said:


> McGuinty was a spender.........because the voters love spenders.


That is, unfortunately, the truth.
Everyone has a pet cause, a pet social program, a pet mission.

In the famous Brit comedy, _Yes, Minister_, the Minister of Administrative Affairs - Jim Hacker - asks his Permanent Secretary Sir Humphrey Appleby, to tell him the truth.
His reply: _You want the truth? You can't *handle* the truth_.

And that's what we have here - everyone asks for austerity, but can't handle austerity.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> everyone asks for austerity, but can't handle austerity.


That's good. Sums up the human condition rather well.

For the record, I support austerity as long as it doesn't affect me in any way.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> In the famous Brit comedy, _Yes, Minister_, the Minister of Administrative Affairs - Jim Hacker - asks his Permanent Secretary Sir Humphrey Appleby, to tell him the truth.
> His reply: _You want the truth? You can't *handle* the truth_.


And he stole that famous quote from the movie with Jack Nickolson, it was called "A few good Men".. 

*You want answers? 
Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to. 
Col. Jessep: *You want answers?* 
Kaffee: *I want the truth!* 
Col. Jessep: *You can't handle the truth!*
*
What the Ontario taxpayer can't handle is GOVERNMENT WASTE OF TAX PAYERS MONEY..
.and the ones left still in the running, haven't got a clue how to turn it around!

Next provincial elections...just who should we vote for????

Fiberals??..can't trust them even with McGuinty out of the picture!
PC??.....what a joke that is! He didn't even a clue in the last election, what makes us think he will be able to govern any better than McGuinty...and it's just more hot air..recycled of course!
NDP??...yes sure, we want another round of carefree socialist spending!

Keep going down the same old path and we'll end up like Grease!:rolleyes2:


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

carverman said:


> And he stole that famous quote from the movie with Jack Nickolson, it was called "A few good Men"..
> 
> *You want answers?
> Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to.
> ...


Um, no. Hacker asked Humphrey, "Humphrey, was there one word of truth in that whole story that you told Lucy?"
Sir Humphrey: Minister, do you really want me to answer that question?
Hacker: [thinks uneasily] No, I don't think I do.
Sir Humphrey: [smiles] Quite so. Perhaps there are some things it is better for a Minister not to know?"

A Few Good Men came out in 1992. Yes, Minister ran from 1980-1987. There's no way Y,M stole from AFGM but Y,M didn't include the line, "you can't handle the truth!" I can't imagine Hacker ever delivering that line anyways.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks, M.G; for the correction to my attempt at a correction, of what people may say when they *don't want to hear the truth.*
Of course, I don't care to hear about the truth at this point.*.I just want my tax money back!* :biggrin:


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

:encouragement:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> A Few Good Men came out in 1992. Yes, Minister ran from 1980-1987. There's no way Y,M stole from AFGM but Y,M didn't include the line, "you can't handle the truth!" I can't imagine Hacker ever delivering that line anyways.


I am pretty sure this line was there.
I have watched every single episode, some several times.
I'll have to dig up my old tapes, or borrow one from the library.

And it wasn't Hacker who said that. It was Sir Humphrey


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Famous Nicholson line, A Few Good Men:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo


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