# Windows XP-No longer to be supported



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

First, let me state that I am no computer whiz--far from it! However, I have heard that Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows XP, which I now use, after the end of April of this year.

What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that my current operating system will no longer work after that date? Does it mean that my current computer will become useless and that I will need to invest in a new one?

I have heard many say that they do not like Windows 8. Will there be a learning curve if I have to switch?

What is involved in getting a new computer? Can I start fresh or do I have to transfer everything from my old computer to a new one?

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Windows 7 is a fairly painless upgrade and learning curve I thought (it keeps all your files and it's mostly XP with eye candy to the user) I just had a network problem so I thought I'd re-install drivers, but after I uninstalled them Windows 7 magically re-installed them itself, it's more automatic. You would have to check if your computer has the required hardware required. I haven't used Windows 8.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Belguy said:


> First, let me state that I am no computer whiz--far from it! However, I have heard that Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows XP, which I now use, after the end of April of this year.
> 
> What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that my current operating system will no longer work after that date? Does it mean that my current computer will become useless and that I will need to invest in a new one?
> 
> ...


XP will still work. However, MS will not longer be supplying security updates, which means you will be more vulnerable to malware. If you have important personal and/or financial information on your computer and are connected to the internet, you should ditch XP. People love win 7. But I think, if I'm not mistaken, it is no longer for sale, or being taken off the market soon. However, it is still being supported. If you don't go on the internet with sensitive financial or other information on your pc, just keep using xp. (Generally people see win 8 as a failure, even though it is probably a really good os. Win 7 is the current darling. Win 9 will be coming out in about a year, maybe) . And then there is always linux mint. The latest version will probably run great on your old machine.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Belguy said:


> First, let me state that I am no computer whiz--far from it! However, I have heard that Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows XP, which I now use, after the end of April of this year.
> 
> What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that my current operating system will no longer work after that date? Does it mean that my current computer will become useless and that I will need to invest in a new one?
> 
> I have heard many say that they do not like Windows 8. Will there be a learning curve if I have to switch?


Windows XP will continue running well after Microsoft stops supporting it with periodic updates. No, you do NOT have to invest in a new PC..just buy the Windows 7 OS,
(that comes with a licence key) and install it into your existing computer. But first!..find out which version of OS your particular computer is running on.

The older PCs are 32 bit and the newer ones are 64 bit. If you buy a 32 bit Windows 7 and try to install it into a 64 bit computer..IT WILL NOT INSTALL.
yOU THEN HAVE TO BUY A 64BIT VERSION OFWINDOWS 7..SO CHECK FIRST!

If you want to protect your computer against hackers as Micrsoft is saying, you may need to switch. 
This is different of course from the anti-virus that will still protect you from virues on XP.

You could stay with XP for a while, but you should consider switching to Windows 7 (not Windows 8..which I don't like). 
I went from XP to Windows 7 about a year and half ago. HOWEVER!...It is NOT A SEAMLESS TRANSITION THOUGH, AS YOU WILL LOSE ALL THE APPLICATIONS ON YOUR XP operating system, so it is best to put all your important files that you don't want to lose on USB 4 to 8 gb data keys, so that when you apply Windows 7,
(either 32 bit or 64 bit version..depending on your computer), you can recover all your files.

Before you do that, go into PROGRAMS and make a note of all the applications that are installed.
Make a list of these because you will need to DOWNLOAD these AGAIN afterWARDS, along with any drivers that will be gone. 

I've done the migrations from XP to Windows 7 (both 32 and 64 bit) and it takes a few hours to get all the applications downloaded and applied after Windows 7 is up and running..including Google or whatever you use for a browser. It's a challenge to do it yourself..but that is the way to learn more about the PC.



> What is involved in getting a new computer? Can I start fresh or do I have to transfer everything from my old computer to a new one?
> Any advice would be appreciated.


Well you could buy a new PC, but they either come with the crappy Windows 8.0 or 8.1...both have a learning curve and hard to find applications.
Going from XP to Windows 7 is much less of a learning curve.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Pluto said:


> But I think, if I'm not mistaken,* it is no longer for sale, or being taken off the market soon*. However, it is still being supported. .


*Still for sale*. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 and 32 bit versions. Here is one supplier that I bought from.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5213932&csid=_61


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I am looking at buying a new laptop too. Puts me off that everything seems to come with windows 8 or 8.1


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Not even sure why they make a 32 bit version of Windows 7. The Athlon 64 came out in 2003 and almost everything since then has been 64 bit. Anything ancient enough to still be 32 bit will not run Win 7 with any degree of speed anyways.

Belguy: How much are you looking to spend? You can buy a perfectly fine 15" laptop for about $350. It won't be super fast but it will run Windows 8 (or 7) no problem. http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...d-4gb-ram-windows-8-1-15-g028ca/10282880.aspx


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

Windows 8 is quite similar to Windows 7 if you set it to start up in desktop mode. I think there's even a way to get back the traditional start menu. Find a computer-y friend or acquaintance and have them configure it for you. 

Probably the most noticable difference between XP and 7/8 for the user is that the start menu is search-based. Most other things you should find quite similar. The newer versions of Office, however, are a big jump. The ribbon is quite different (but really, it's better for the most part once you configure it so all your commonly-used items are in a custom menu).


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> Not even sure why they make a 32 bit version of Windows 7. The Athlon 64 came out in 2003 and almost everything since then has been 64 bit. Anything ancient enough to still be 32 bit will not run Win 7 with any degree of speed anyways.


I got a old HP M000 Media Center (12 years or older) that I used for a while, now it's my backup. 
Yes it's slow compared to my AMD Athalon X64. But I just keep it for a spare..just in case.


As far as the laptops..they come now with Windows 8, which was designed for tablet , not a desktop or laptop. Workable..but a real pain to use compared to W7, and you can never find the all import "START" button to look at files etc.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Taraz said:


> Windows 8 is quite similar to Windows 7 if you set it to start up in desktop mode. I think there's even a way to get back the traditional start menu. Find a computer-y friend or acquaintance and have them configure it for you.


8.0 sucks bigtime. It was designed for tablet use and is another one of MS "bright ideas" that annoys desktop and laptop users.
There are some an online apps that you can buy to configure 8.0 bring up the "Start" menu and emulate W7. 
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/141702-how-to-bring-the-start-menu-and-button-back-to-windows-8


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Belguy said:


> First, let me state that I am no computer whiz--far from it! However, I have heard that Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows XP, which I now use, after the end of April of this year.
> 
> What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that my current operating system will no longer work after that date? Does it mean that my current computer will become useless and that I will need to invest in a new one?
> 
> ...


the obvious answer is that this is a perfect time to switch to a macintosh and thus be using the most secure and sophisticated computer operating system yet known to man ... 

or you could just buy a fresh copy of windows 8 and use the option thingy to make it start up and look just like windows 7 ... 

you can get a non-upgrade fresh win 8 license for cheap and i would highly recommend upgrading since as others have pointed out win xp will be increasingly vulnerable to malware i suspect ... it still has a huge installed user base i believe so bad guys will be targeting it

i personally would clone or copy your hard drive to an external drive and do a fresh install and import your data, it will be a much cleaner os


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I'm not 100% of this but I believe if you buy a new computer from a place like Best Buy you can ask them to give you Win 7 instead of 8.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Mechanic said:


> I am looking at buying a new laptop too. Puts me off that everything seems to come with windows 8 or 8.1


Yes, my friend bought one from Staples with 8.0. His old desktop is XP. Talk about frustration! Took him a long time to get used to looking for the start menu hidden in all that junk on the screen 
with it first comes up.
It's doable..but there are now some after market apps available to make it look more like Windows 7.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Best Buy sells refurbished computers with windows 7 installed for under $200.I would do that before paying $99 for software especially since your computer is much older .


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Microsoft's plan is to force users off XP because nobody is buying XP anymore and they don't want to support it.

It depends on what you want to do with your PC, but you can run XP for a few years more. Just install Malwarebytes (free) to take care of any malware
and leave it be. Migrating from XP to W7 (or w8) is a PITA. Lots of downloading after of applications and drivers compatible with the new s/w.
I'm not sure if a image will even help as the applications that ran on XP have to be downloaded as W7 compatible. Took me a few hours to convert mine.
i've used Malware bytes to get rid of browser bar hijacking which can happen if you pick the wrong site to download an application. They sneak in their
own browsers to track cookies...nasty stuff and takes time to eradicate them.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Best Buy sells refurbished computers with windows 7 installed for under $200.I would do that before paying $99 for software especially since your computer is much older .


Makes perfect sense..if you can find these, because upgrading from XP to W7 is a LONG process. 
When the OS system comes up, the old applications and browsers are GONE. You have to start from scratch again, and that includes any personal files that you didn't save
beforehand on ext drive or a USB flash memory. As I mentioned ..it is doable..but a PITA and very frustrating for anyone that doesn't have some PC experience doing this kind of thing.
OTH..I believe that a migration from W7-> W8 is much smoother..but something I don't want to do, since I don't like W8.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Best Buy sells refurbished computers with windows 7 installed for under $200.I would do that before paying $99 for software especially since your computer is much older .


The problem with buying refurbished is sometimes they install a cloned or "pirated copy" of W7. This happened to me. 
After 30 days of running with W7 Professional, I started to get warnings from MS (as your computer and MS interact from time to
time on updates from MS), and it wanted a SW Key..or buythe s/w from them at an inflated price. 

They also do a nasty of turning off your background to BLACK when that happens, so you are forced to pay their ransom price,
or go for a licenced copy of W7 home premium as I had to do at $99.

So just keep that in mind when of buying second hand or refurbished PC. 
If the seller does not supply you with a GENUINE MS software "key" to send to MS, so they can verify it is a legit copy..MS will start to interfere
and warn you that "You may be running a pirated/illegal copy on your computer." Your computer will still work, but you will get these warning popups
every time you restart or during the day..very annoying!


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Why can't life be more simple? Windows XP works fine for me but Microsoft wants to screw that up. Suppose the car companies stopped making repairs of their vehicles possible after ten years! Something just doesn't seem right with this picture. I could backtrack a nd try to find a computer loaded with Windows 7 but how long before Microsoft unilateraly decides to abandon me again.

How difficult is it to learn how to use a Mac?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Belguy said:


> Why can't life be more simple? Windows XP works fine for me but Microsoft wants to screw that up. Suppose the car companies stopped making repairs of their vehicles possible after ten years! Something just doesn't seem right with this picture. I could backtrack and try to find a computer loaded with Windows 7 but how long before Microsoft universally decides to abandon me again.


Here's a link to Microsoft's lifecycle plan. Windows 7 will be EOL in 2020. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/products/lifecycle

Software is a little different from physical items. Even if software normally doesn't degrade, keeping current with different codebases can be expensive. To use your car analogy, it would be as if one year you release your basic, everyday model. A few years down the road, the manufacturer completely changes it and the parts are no longer recognizable, i.e. carburetor vs fuel injection. You can do your best to stock up on parts, but it doesn't become cost effective to start producing parts for something that you've moved past. The analogy falls apart as the issues with software support deals more with malware... so it would be the equivalent of having burglers trying different techniques to break into your car and then the manufacturer having recalls to trying to defeat the techniques.

As for Macs, well, it depends on what you use your computer. If it's the basics: office, and web browsing, there's probably a bit of getting used to, but nothing major.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

You can buy a brand new Windows 8 laptop for $350. If you want to spend 5 times that then get a Mac.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Sherlock said:


> You can buy a brand new Windows 8 laptop for $350. If you want to spend 5 times that then get a Mac.


well, not quite .. you can buy a refurb apple macbook air for 849 (i usually buy only apple reurbs because they are as good as new, just come in a brown box instead of the fancy apple box, everything else is the same) that will deliver a significantly better product spec-wise and re-sale wise

but belguy is an old dog and i wouldn't seriously suggest he learn new tricks 

he should probably just stick with windows 
doesn't windows 8 now have an option to revert back to the windows seven start menu ?

the answer seems simple to me, if belguy needs a new computer, just buy a new computer which will come with windows 8, if he doesn't need a new computer just buy new full retail copy of win 8 which you can now get for a little over 100 bucks


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

So now we also need to worry about resale value when buying a computer?? Sorry but Macs are ridiculous. If you're buying on the high end, you can spec a Windows based ultrabook with better specs than even the best macbook for less money. If you're buying in the mid-range, again you can find better bang for your buck with an ultrabook. And if you're buying low-end, well Macs don't even have an option for you then. No matter what your budget is, I can't see any argument for going with a mac.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I recently built a new computer with Windows 8.1. I just shun the new tablet interface, and installed a start menu app called Start is Back. Quite similar to Windows 7, which I quite like. My only complaint is that MS took out free cell which is mindless time waster while waiting for things to happen.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Sherlock said:


> You can buy a brand new Windows 8 laptop for $350. *If you want to spend 5 times that then get a Mac.*


and that is the problem. Macs rarely.. if ever... go on sale. I looked a Mac last year as well, but not only would I end up shelling out well over $2k
by the time you add 13% and extended warranty.

I'm a two handed typist, so I like my MS full size keyboard. I didn't like the small keyboard that comes with most Macs,
adding the available external full keyboard to the Mac cost, would end up well over $2K.

Stick with what you got, unless there is a specific reason why you need to change OS. I wouldn't be too concerned about what MS is saying about not supporting
XP. It's been stable for a few years now, with no periodic updates from MS. Just make sure you have a good anti-virus on XP and maybe invest in Malwarebytes
to take care of any trojans, and you can still use it. The important thing here is a good firewall to detect intruders/hackers.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fatcat said:


> but belguy is an old dog and i wouldn't seriously suggest he learn new tricks


Even old dogs like me can learn new tricks..it just takes us a bit longer that's all. :biggrin:



> he should probably just stick with windows
> doesn't windows 8 now have an option to revert back to the windows seven start menu ?


Yes, there are a few options available, but even when the "start" is in the LHS bottom corner, like on XP and W7,there is still the confusing array of blocks that fill the screen that you have to
sort through to bring up a Google window. 



> the answer seems simple to me, if belguy needs a new computer, just buy a new computer which will come with windows 8, if he doesn't need a new computer just buy new full retail copy of win 8 which you can now get for a little over 100 bucks


Well yes, he can buy a retail copy of Windows 8 home premium or whatever they call it. There is also a free an upgrade from MS called 8.1 once you install W8..but the migration from XP to W8
involves a clean C disk and any applications running on your PC have to be downloaded and run again..and this is what takes the time for the upgrade.

So, if a PC user doesn't know how to do this, they may need to take it to a computer tech and have them do it..at a cost.

*The other issue to upgrade from XP to W7/8 is the CURRENT size of Ram memory on the PC. *
If you only have 1GB, it will run as slow as molasses in January, since the processor will be no doubt an older and slower model,
and more than likely W7/8 WILL PROBABLY NOT UPGRADE since any applications that need a lot of memory buffer
will have to run on hard disk..slowing down access.

While 2GB is ok with XP, it may NOT be enough for W7 or W8 and he would have to upgrade the Ram as well
to 3GB or even 4GB at least. Most of the newer PCs are coming out with 8GB. 

here is a blog on this subject: 
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...can-i-upgrade-my-netbook-from-xp-to-windows-7


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

Sherlock said:


> Sorry but Macs are ridiculous.


great point ...

View attachment 434


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Belguy said:


> ... how long before Microsoft unilateraly decides to abandon me again


http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Looks like I have 3 years to switch from my Vista Machine to one of my win 8 units.Thank god I only have email , docs and poker software I use now !


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Does it make sense, when purchasing a new computer, to just start fresh all over again and not transfer anything from your old computer? I do not have any pictures, music etc. on this computer that I care about.

Also, should I destroy the hard drive on my old computer before discarding it. I am concerned about my banking and other personal information.

This computer is over ten years old and so it doesn't owe my anything but my hesitation about buying a new one revolves around the Windows 8 issue. It would seem that I would be buying something that most folks don't much like.

Also, I now own this desktop plus a tablet. Do I buy another desktop so that I can continue to use my perfectly good flat panel screen or do I go with a laptop or all in one?

How much should I spend if I only use my computer for surfing the net and my banking and emails?

Sorry to be so dumb about this but, as mentioned earlier, I am an old timer.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Starting fresh is the way to go. When you buy a new computer it will have a fresh copy of Windows on it.

You don't have to physically destroy your hard drive, you can just format it, which will wipe it clean. Google how to do that, it's simple.

Just about every laptop has a port into which you can plug your flat panel screen into, so you can continue to use that screen if it's bigger/nicer than your laptop screen. You can also buy a usb mouse and plug it into your laptop's usb port, which will probably be easier to use than the laptop's trackpad.

Web browsing and emailing is not very demanding on the computer's resources at all, you should be able to find a laptop for well under $500 that will be able to handle that for many more years. I linked one above for $350.


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## Dave (Apr 5, 2009)

I bought a new laptop a few months ago that came with windows 8 (non professional so can not downgrade to window 7 professinal). At the store, I was told that it is impossible to uninstall. However, I found a way to tear it down and re-install a priated version of windows 7. I disagree that it is easy. They make it very hard probably on purpose, and if you do not know what you are doing, you risk to completely bust your computer (aka delete everything with no way to swich it on afterwards). The problem is that the hardware of my laptop was built for windows 8 so some minor features might not work, but I am happy with the end result.

Dave


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Dave said:


> I bought a new laptop a few months ago that came with windows 8 (non professional so can not downgrade to window 7 professional).
> At the store, I was told that it is impossible to uninstall. However, I found a way to tear it down and re-install a pirated version of windows 7.


Nothing is impossible, but it's definitely not easy unless you run W7 as a virtual machine with the W8 OS.which is a bit of a kludge.
Maybe what he meant was that you can't uninstall unles you scrub the System disk and start clean? However, I think the drivers for W8 are are not backward compatible to W7,
so you would need to find the correct version of the drivers that run on W7, after booting in W7,..... and all the applications... and all the files you need as well. 
It's several hours of work for sure. 



> I disagree that it is easy. They make it very hard probably on purpose, and if you do not know what you are doing, you risk to completely bust your computer (aka delete everything with no way to swich it on afterwards). The problem is that the hardware of my laptop was built for windows 8 so some minor features might not work, but I am happy with the end result.
> Dave


No it is not easy and they do this on purpose. However, if you know a thing or two about MS software and willing to start clean, AFAIK, it is possible. Not sure what you mean by h/w on the laptop. The thing you need to know is what changes they have done to the BI0S, (Basic Input/Output System) which is the firmware that allows the computer to find the boot disk. 

*If the boot disk is partitioned differently in W8 from W7, it may not come up. *

The BIOS would have to changed and the drivers that work on W7. If you have Windows 8 PRO, it is easier, but this is more expensive s/w to begin with, 
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417359,00.asp



> A Few Words of Warning
> Microsoft does offer downgrade rights, complete with support services and a clear downgrade path to Windows 7, but only for systems with Windows 8 Pro. If you've just got plain old Windows 8—and most mainstream systems do—you're on your own. Switching between the two operating systems is still very doable, but you'll be doing it without Microsoft's blessing.


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## rikk (May 28, 2012)

Belguy said:


> ... I do not have any pictures, music etc. on this computer that I care about ... my hesitation about buying a new one revolves around the Windows 8 issue ... Also, I now own this desktop plus a tablet. Do I buy another desktop so that I can continue to use my perfectly good flat panel screen or do I go with a laptop or all in one?


If your current desktop suits you, why not just install win 7 ... e.g. http://www.amazon.ca/Windows-Premiu...UTF8&qid=1392729397&sr=1-3&keywords=windows+7 ... free shipping . One advantage of an old desktop, nobody's gonna steal it, whereas a laptop, well.

I bought an inexpensive win 8 laptop for use as an HTPC (home theater), removed the hard drive with the win 8, put it away, and installed a new disk with a Linux distribution ... I found I really don't like win 8. If you end up with a win 8 laptop, you might consider doing the same ... only with win 7. We have a few win 7 desktops, laptops around the house ... we like them :encouragement:

Or just continue to use your XP ... SP3.


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## dave2012 (Feb 17, 2012)

At last check, about 35% of Windows users are still on XP. Says something about how users feel about Microsoft upgrades...

I had to pay over $220 at Future Shop for an old Windows 7 copy (I run various Windoze / IE combos on my Mac to deal with all their incompatibility issues for websites). Windows 8 is half the price. Kind of backwards don't you think? Think my last XP license was more expensive than Windows 8 as well. They are having a hard time selling users on upgrading to their 'modern' OS versions.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

You really can turn Windows 8 into something barely distinguishable from Windows 7. You just need a free - $3 utility that restores start menu functionality, which also allows you to disable to tile start screen. I would recommend against getting the cheapest computer you can get your hands on, as it will not have the power to run Windows 8 and modern browsers (which are becoming resource hogs) without a serious degradation in the user experience. Aim for more the $600 price range. You also tend to get a chassis that is a bit better put together and a better screen.

And don't buy an all-in-one.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

dave2012 said:


> At last check, about 35% of Windows users are still on XP. Says something about how users feel about Microsoft upgrades...
> 
> I had to pay over $220 at Future Shop for an old Windows 7 copy (I run various Windoze / IE combos on my Mac to deal with all their incompatibility issues for websites). Windows 8 is half the price. Kind of backwards don't you think? Think my last XP license was more expensive than Windows 8 as well. They are having a hard time selling users on upgrading to their 'modern' OS versions.


Win8 was designed with those tiles for tablets and some mobile devices (smart phones) users. I guess MS thought that everyone will be scrapping their desktops and laptops and
rushing out to buy these devices at some point, so they went ahead and came up with Win8. 
Didn't happen that way, lots of desktop/laptop users didn't like the Win 8 interface that makes it hard to use with a mouse and keyboard, since you can't just use your fingers to move tiles on laptop or desktop screen it's a pain to use.

Anybody remember MS Vista? It was released in 2007 and bombed big time. Lots of users who tried it went back to XP. Not saying this will happen with Win8 as they already have workarounds to
emulate Win 7, for users that are not happy with it.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

Belguy said:


> Does it make sense, when purchasing a new computer, to just start fresh all over again and not transfer anything from your old computer? I do not have any pictures, music etc. on this computer that I care about.
> 
> Also, should I destroy the hard drive on my old computer before discarding it. I am concerned about my banking and other personal information.
> 
> ...


1. You should be able to get a laptop an plug your current flat screen into it. Plus, if you like your key board, it should work also by plugging into a lap top. 
2. You should delete personal information from your hard drive, and then *wipe* the free space. CCleaner has a wipe feature. Then, if you are really concerned, take the hard drive out, and smash it with a sledge hammer. 
3. for your purposes you should be able to get a pc/or laptop for less than 500.


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## Mario38 (Feb 11, 2014)

dave2012 said:


> At last check, about 35% of Windows users are still on XP. Says something about how users feel about Microsoft upgrades...
> 
> I had to pay over $220 at Future Shop for an old Windows 7 copy (I run various Windoze / IE combos on my Mac to deal with all their incompatibility issues for websites). Windows 8 is half the price. Kind of backwards don't you think? Think my last XP license was more expensive than Windows 8 as well. They are having a hard time selling users on upgrading to their 'modern' OS versions.


dave, I am in the same situation as you. I run Windows under Mac to maintain legacy websites. Windows runs better under Mac than on its own. I can shut down Windows in 2 seconds by simply quitting the virtual machine program. I can start windows in 5 seconds by starting the virtual machine program. Faster than any Windows only computer.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ Not really a fair comparison as you have to boot into OSX first.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

andrewf said:


> ^ Not really a fair comparison as you have to boot into OSX first.


That's true, but you can boot directly into Windows on a Mac using Boot Camp (which comes free with every Mac), no virtual machine, Windows runs natively. You never have to boot into OSX if you don't want to -- you can set it up as a Windows machine. And it's very fast. I have Windows 7 on my iMac and it boots into Windows faster than it boots into OSX.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Arghhhh with the discontinued support of XP... if it ain't broken, why fix it? Oh, I forgot ... it's from MS, the OS that keeps on taking. 

I thought I was keeping up with technology by getting a tablet with the Android app. ... :grief:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Arghhhh with the discontinued support of XP... if it ain't broken, why fix it? Oh, I forgot ... it's from MS, the OS that keeps on taking.
> 
> I thought I was keeping up with technology by getting a tablet with the Android app. ... :grief:


XP is not broken. It's been very stable for a few years now. But there is no money in it..nobody is buying it, so MS doesn't want to support it anymore. The same thing for Win 7 in 2020 (that's still 7 years away), but by then Win9 will
be out, so Win8,0 or 8.1 or 8.x will be forgotten just like Vista..another "bright idea" from MS.

XP users don't have to hit the panic button just because MS stops supporting it. All you need is a good internet security like Norton or AVG, and a Malware hunter tool. It's not that scary yet.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think you can continue to use XP for a good long time yet. I think it is mostly businesses that are concerned about using an OS that is not receiving support any more.

Since MS is moving to a software as a service model, maybe that should include support in the license fee until date X after the release of the OS then charge a subscription fee for ongoing support after that of perhaps $10 per year.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I bought the MacBook on closeout with Lion (cheaper than my last PC laptop). Got upgraded to Mountain Lion for free since it was so close after I bought.. and then everyone got upgraded to Mavericks for free a few years later. Microsoft even charges $$$ for frivolous upgrades to Office. Each upgrade involved 1 painless click and no learning curve or regrets, but rather real features that make a difference. Now it is integrated with the mobile world and syncs flawlessly to my TV etc. I studied computer science but I don't like wasting my time on Windows when I know OSX is setup better and 3rd party solutions on Windows are always clunky in comparison. The only program I use that isn't on OSX is Quicken.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> XP is not broken. It's been very stable for a few years now. But there is no money in it..nobody is buying it, so MS doesn't want to support it anymore. The same thing for Win 7 in 2020 (that's still 7 years away), but by then Win9 will be out, so Win8,0 or 8.1 or 8.x will be forgotten just like Vista..*another "bright idea" from MS.*
> 
> XP users don't have to hit the panic button just because MS stops supporting it. All you need is a good internet security like Norton or AVG, and a Malware hunter tool. *It's not that scary yet*.


 ... that's why Bill Gates is the richest man (or one of the richest guy) in the world. 

Not that scary yet? ... not according to the link provided by Retired Peasant post#10 http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/17327-TD-Customer-experience used on ATMs. Hmm ... wondering about the 100% guaranteed safe online banking claim?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

mode, That's great. Let me know when Apple starts making entry level laptops and desktops.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

It is the eternal hamster wheel - how else to drive profits? 

I know I am on thin ice with this one, but I have been at it for so long I hate the thought of a different interface: I am still using Quicken 99.


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## Mario38 (Feb 11, 2014)

andrewf said:


> mode, That's great. Let me know when Apple starts making entry level laptops and desktops.


Apple makes entry level laptops and desktops. But if you mean when will they make cheap, throw away crap, then no, that will never happen.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> Hmm ... wondering about the 100% guaranteed safe online banking claim?





> TD’s spokesperson told me that all of their 2,800 ATM machines do indeed run Windows XP, and that the bank “expects to complete the conversion of its Canadian ATM fleet to Windows 7 by the end of 2015.” RBC said it doesn’t give out such information about its machines, only adding: “RBC is well prepared for April and there will be no customer impact.”


Your money will be safe don't worry. MS has to provide security updates for XP until all the ATM machines are on Win 7. In any case, if the bank machine screws up by some remote chance and it's not your own fault
CDIC will reimburse savings accounts holder for any losses up to $100k. MS would get a lot of flack from the big banks if they didn't provide security updates until the transition is made.

If you do online banking and want to stay with XP, you can always get Malwarebytes...its only $29 cdn for a lifetime licence. 
http://www.malwarebytes.org/lp/lp4/?gclid=CKzIuuOQ2bwCFdFAMgodzT0ADA


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Belguy said:


> First, let me state that I am no computer whiz--far from it! However, I have heard that Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows XP, which I now use, after the end of April of this year.
> 
> What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that my current operating system will no longer work after that date? Does it mean that my current computer will become useless and that I will need to invest in a new one?
> 
> ...


How old is your PC? If it's more than 7 or 8 years old, there's a good chance it won't support a newer OS, unless you have a fairly modern video card. I ran into this very issue when I upgraded from XP. You are also unlikely to have enough RAM for Windows 7 to run smoothly.

This gives you two options:

1. Keep using XP as long as you don't mind not getting security upgrades from Microsoft. If you are paranoid about security, invest in a couple of good antivirus programs.

2. Start fresh with a new PC with Windows 7. You can get a USB memory stick for $9.99 that will allow you to save any files from your old computer that you want to transfer over. Don't forget to back up your bookmarks (favourites) onto this.


I don't recommend getting a laptop as it sounds like you are happy with your PC. Laptops have their own set of issues that you don't need to concern yourself with needlessly unless you need the mobility that a laptop allows.
Don't bother getting a Mac if you are happy with Windows.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Mario38 said:


> Apple makes entry level laptops and desktops. But if you mean when will they make cheap, throw away crap, then no, that will never happen.


The cheapest Mac is $1000, and it is a netbook. That is not entry level. A PC with the same hardware (albeit lesser built quality) is more like $400. That's because the specs are ridiculous.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

nathan79 said:


> How old is your PC? If it's more than 7 or 8 years old, there's a good chance it won't support a newer OS, unless you have a fairly modern video card. I ran into this very issue when I upgraded from XP.* You are also unlikely to have enough RAM for Windows 7 to run smoothly.
> *
> This gives you two options:
> 
> 1. Keep using XP as long as you don't mind not getting security upgrades from Microsoft. If you are paranoid about security, invest in a couple of good antivirus programs.


A good antivirus.. such as Norton or AVG. I wouldn't trust that MS and their security updates are going to catch all the the virus (that keep popping up from time to tiime) and all the malware (trojans etc) that are out there if
you surf the internet to visit sites and download an app. It's highly unlikely that you would get infected just visiting, but opening email or downloading may allow a "window" for virus or malware to infect your computer.
So today, regardless of what version of MS s/w your are running, you need a good antivirus/internet security suite and some app that will detect any kind of hijacking of your computer...such as MalwareBytes.

(I also have AVG PC Tuneup to clean up the registry, reclaim space on the disks that has been "orphaned" and get the processor to run the way it was supposed to when new.) 

It's a yearly licence for AVG PC Tuneup, but you can do lots of maintenance with it such as: disable programs, organize startup programs to get the PC to come up faster from Boot or restart, uninstall programs, configure live
optimization, clean up the registry, defrag registry and the hard disk. It's a tool box that I believe everyone using a PC should have and use periodically to keep their PC tuned up.

Don't depend on MS to be the saving grace for everything that may befall your computer. 

Now that you mentioned internal Ram memory, that is something that may make your old PC (and I am assuming an old 32bit Intel processor version) *obsolete* ....and need to be replaced with something newer before
even attempting Win 7, if that is your goal. Most of older 32bit processors MAY NOT HAVE THE extra RAM SLOTS or the RAM addressing capabilty to go beyond 2-3GB.

So even if you find the right Ram (speed and configuration ..ie: DDR2 or DDR3) it is a virtual "jungle out there" to find the correct memory that will run on your PC and be compatible with the memory
accessing h/w on the PC motherboard. 
Yes, you can go into CONTROL PANEL; SYSTEM to find out how much RAM your PC is equipped with but it wont tell you the type of RAM memory it has.
You may have to take the side cover off the PC and examine the plugin RAM memory, and for most PC owners, they would rather leave that to the computer techs.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> XP is not broken. It's been very stable for a few years now. But there is no money in it..nobody is buying it, so MS doesn't want to support it anymore. The same thing for Win 7 in 2020 (that's still 7 years away), but by then Win9 will
> be out, so Win8,0 or 8.1 or 8.x will be forgotten just like Vista..another "bright idea" from MS.
> 
> XP users don't have to hit the panic button just because MS stops supporting it. All you need is a good internet security like Norton or AVG, and a* Malware hunter tool*. It's not that scary yet.


 ... thanks for the Malware link - will check it out when get the chance. Currently have AVG (pre-installed) but not wasn't aware of Malwarebytes.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Upgrading RAM on a ten year old computer is foolish. If you can find the components, they are likely to be expensive. I wouldn't sink any money into upgrading. If you're going to spend a dime, just buy a new PC.


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## Dave (Apr 5, 2009)

carverman,

I agree with AVG for security, that is what I use. Never bothered with microsoft updates. I actually avoid them because they can screw up your pirated software, lol. And I hope too that we will get something better as Windows 9 because the 8 is a disaster. I have Windows 7 right now and XP on a second hard drive that I also use as back up. I have no issues.

Dave


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Upgrading RAM on a ten year old computer is foolish. If you can find the components, they are likely to be expensive. I wouldn't sink any money into upgrading. If you're going to spend a dime, just buy a new PC.


True, if you don't know how to do it yourself. 2GB of DDR2 (533Mhz) is not too expensive to keep the old PC active to run on Win 7. I bought a 2GB stick from MemoryDepot in Mtl (free shipping) for $33.67 cdn
and they offer free shipping. There was a spare RAM slot left on the old HP PC (x32) and it worked fine other than only having 1GB installed new. With the additional Ram($38 + Win 7 Home Premium $113 (TigerDirect)
I was able to upgrade it from XP to Win 7 on the same MS licence, as the license is good for 3 PCs. So with taxes it came to about $151, but I did the mem upgrade and the Win 7 install myself.
If a PC user is unfamiliar with what's inside a PC and doesn't know the installation process for a XP to Win 7 migration...it would be too costly to take it to a PC tech to have it upgraded by the time you add labour
charges and taxes..$300 at least..and for that you can buy a new PC...

Of course all the *new PCs *(desktop or laptop) will come with Win 8 ....unless you find a refurbished at Staples or whereever.
http://www.staples.ca/en/HP-DC7900-...el-Core-2-Duo-4GB/product_285302_2-CA_1_20001


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Dave said:


> carverman,
> 
> I agree with AVG for security, that is what I use. Never bothered with microsoft updates. I actually avoid them because they can screw up your pirated software, lol. And I hope too that we will get something better as Windows 9 because the 8 is a disaster. I have Windows 7 right now and XP on a second hard drive that I also use as back up. I have no issues.
> 
> Dave


I used Norton for a few years and also don't rely on MS and their security updates. But last year I started using AVG Internet security, AVG PC Tuneup
SO MUCH BETTER if you know how to use these effectively. Of course you have to spend some money to renew the license for these every 356 days but they also have support available if you need it.
and Malwarebytes.
Between AVG and Malwarebytes..no hacker or trojan (horse) out there has been able to penetrate my defences.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think $150 is probably too much to sink into a 10 year old PC.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> I think $150 is probably too much to sink into a 10 year old PC.


It's my backup, because I do my banking online as well. If I have problems with my x64 I'm using, I can quickly swap it out to the x32 and keep going while I troubleshoot my X64.
I agree though, that it is questionable to put that much into an old 32 bit desktop.


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## praire_guy (Sep 8, 2011)

fatcat said:


> the obvious answer is that this is a perfect time to switch to a macintosh and thus be using the most secure and sophisticated computer operating system yet known to man ...
> 
> or you could just buy a fresh copy of windows 8 and use the option thingy to make it start up and look just like windows 7 ...
> 
> ...


Best piece of advice. I switched to a mac coming up 8 years Go now. I'm amazed Microsoft is still in business. Such a headache.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Dave said:


> carverman,
> 
> I agree with AVG for security, that is what I use. Never bothered with microsoft updates. I actually avoid them because they can screw up your pirated software, lol. And I hope too that we will get something better as Windows 9 because the 8 is a disaster.* I have Windows 7 right now and XP on a second hard drive that I also use as back up*. I have no issues.
> 
> Dave


Same here.
BTW. as I found out after 30 days (buying a second hand PC with pirated s/w)..Microsoft has built in s/w detectors for that. 
They leave you alone for 30 days, when you first start using it, then start blacking out your background and you get nag popups every few hours telling you "you may be running a non genuine copy" and they supply their link where you can buy a genuine copy (at inflated prices of course) or register with a genuine MS key. And they don't send any security updates if you are running a cloned copy where you haven't supplied the s/w key that comes with each copy from them. Genuine copies with the COA (Certificate of Authenticity) allow for installation on up to 3 computers.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows/help/genuine/faq

Sneaky, but they have built in s/w mechanism to prevent mass pirating, I guess. They don't shut down your computer though.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

praire_guy said:


> Best piece of advice. I switched to a mac coming up 8 years Go now. I'm amazed Microsoft is still in business. *Such a headache.*


yes they are..but PCs are getting really cheap now, and lots of people use them. However they are more expensive to operate for the user with a OS that is very susceptible 
to virus attacks..requiring internet security licence renewals each year.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

There are plenty of good, free antivirus options out there.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> There are plenty of good, free antivirus options out there.


Pretty much all of these "FREE" ANTIVIRUS are free for 30 days. After that, they stop working and nag your for payment.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Pretty much all of these "FREE" ANTIVIRUS are free for 30 days. After that, they stop working and nag your for payment.


I was with Norton for a few years. (Bought each year at Staples when they go on sale). Got tired of Norton nagging me to renew at their inflated on line prices, so I went for AVG, which was
"free" to try for 30 days. Then I either had to buy a 1 year subscription (good for up tp 3 PCs) or it would no longer work.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I've got a few older PCs running XP, not worried at all and will continue to use them, likely till the machines die. Fear will get most people moving to never systems and Win 8.1 doesn't look bad though it's a bit of a learning curve for some. Win 7 has been very good and stable for me and there are still new machines out there that have downgrade rights from 8 to 7 if you prefer. If you *need to* upgrade, which probably isn't a bad idea if your XP machine is greater than 5 years old, then waiting for a good sale for a machine that has 8 to 7 downgrade rights in the next few months would likely be a good idea.

For virus protection probably the best bet is to learn what NOT to do but this generally works only if you have some good general PC knowledge. I personally don't use any anti-virus software, never have and probably never will. I have seen those that do and it can really bog down the system, of course they may not have it setup correctly or they just turned "everything on".


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

carverman said:


> I was with Norton for a few years. (Bought each year at Staples when they go on sale). Got tired of Norton nagging me to renew at their inflated on line prices, so I went for AVG, which was
> "free" to try for 30 days. Then I either had to buy a 1 year subscription (good for up tp 3 PCs) or it would no longer work.


Did AVG change their price? I thought it was free as long as you register the software with an e-mail address. I have been using Avast! these days and that's what they require. Although you have to be careful when updating the software as they push the subscription onto you.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We buy a 3pack Norton anti virus bundle on line. Bought it on line on the Monday after Black Friday. $23. (forget what they call that day). Usually we get it at around that price on Boxing Day. This was better, just did it at home and they sent me the access code.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

AVG is still free, but they strongly suggest you upgrade to paid service. It's not necessary.


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## newtothegame (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm with Shaw, and I use Shaw Secure anti-virus (which is free to Shaw customers). It is essentially McAfee. I'm assuming Telus and the others offers something similar? It seems to work alright.


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## newtothegame (Jan 2, 2014)

And yes... Windows 8 is the biggest POS since Windows Bob, in my opinion. Let's see... We'll design an OS that is meant for touch screen phones, and then install it on PC's.

I will run my Windows 7 system at the very least until Windows 9 is released.

Microsoft seems to have this cycle down:

XP: Good.
Vista: Not so good.
7: Good.
8: Not so good.
9: Hopefully good.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

newtothegame said:


> Microsoft seems to have this cycle down:
> 
> XP: Good.
> Vista: Not so good.
> ...


LOL! Every version of the Windows OS has a 10 year support cycle with MS.
Anyone remember Windows 2000? It first came out in 1999. MS stopped supporting it in 2010. 

Windows XP, their most successful OS came out in 2001, and designed to run Duo-Core amongst other features. Finally this year, after 12 years on the market, MS is withdrawing support. 

And of course, VISTA the "MS failure to launch" successfully. Came out in 2005 and suffered and early death in 2006, because of a big backlash from consumers. 

Windows 7 was released in Oct 2009 and support will be available until around 2022. (about 12 years after first availability on the market) 

Windows 8.0 designed for the touch screen,was released in Oct 2012 ..hard to say how long it will be around but maybe for another 10 years. The 8.1 version is slightly better (Oct 1013)
where the user has the option of resizing the tiles on the start screen.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Ok. I would say that the new start screen is designed for touch screen. And it is just awful to use with a mouse and keyboard. But you can totally ignore it. I have a Windows 8 PC and I only saw the new start screen a handful of times. You can even totally disable it. Once that is done, Windows 8 is essentially the same as Windows 7.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

So, do I understand correctly that, if I have virus protection from my cable company, which is Cogeco, that I should be OK to continue using XP until I decide to purchase a new computer? 

That is the conclusion that I have drawn from all of your comments for which I thank you.


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## newtothegame (Jan 2, 2014)

Belguy said:


> So, do I understand correctly that, if I have virus protection from my cable company, which is Cogeco, that I should be OK to continue using XP until I decide to purchase a new computer?
> That is the conclusion that I have drawn from all of your comments for which I thank you.


Yes. Any reputable Internet Service Provider that I have seen, has offered reputable Anti-Virus/Firewall programs to its subscribers. For instance, Shaw offers McAfee free to subscribers on up to five machines at one time.

Personally, I would keep the XP machine until Windows 9 is released, provided your machine is capable of performing what you need it to do for the time being.

Computers don't go "bad" per se... They lose the ability to keep up with modern programs and functions, and become slow. If this is not a problem for you now, don't worry about it!


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Belguy said:


> So, do I understand correctly that, if I have virus protection from my cable company, which is Cogeco, *that I should be OK to continue using XP until I decide to purchase a new computer? *
> 
> That is the conclusion that I have drawn from all of your comments for which I thank you.


Yes, unless you surf the internet a lot, and go to sites that are not recommended or deemed unsafe, you will be ok with XP. 

Personally speaking, for the few dollars a year for an AVG internet security licence, (that you can buy online from them or get it on sale at Staples who have occasional specials for internet security (usually $20 off the normal price), so why take the risk of using a freebee (basic internet with no virus updates) from a ISP? 
You can even get free 30 day virus protection from AVG and others for evaluation. But that is up to you of course.

AVG and Norton are very effective in stopping viruses from being downloaded when they attach themselves to some app. 
Virus infections through emails are another thing, and any email that sends you a URL to reply to..
you need to be extra cautious..as it could have a virus when you open it ....or it could be a phishing email to get your personal data.

Today, there are just too many cyber crooks out there in internet land wanting to get at your personal information or accounts.

The other thing you have to be careful of is applications that you download (that are bundled with other applications) and labelled as "free download"..
most of those might have either a trojan/spyware or something that is referred to as Malware (undesired s/w) that will
hijack your PC or even cause some grief for you. You definitely need a good firewall to prevent intruders from getting into your computer.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Carver, AVG offers free service.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Carver, AVG offers free service.


It may be free, but those are trial temporary licence and it's very limited. If you subscribe to the complete package you get more capability: anti-rootkit scans, surf shield, online shield, identity
protection, email protection, firewall, and tablet apps, mobile apps, fix PC performance issues, driver updates, and more.

I'm not trying to advocate that PC users have to buy it..just that if you buy a 1 year licence you definitely get a lot more than just a virus scan.

I subscribe to AVG PC Tuneup as well as AVG Internet security 2014..it has tools to cleanup registry files, defrag registry files , uninstall programs, monitor cpu "hogs". defrag the hard disk, and organize startup and shutdown, as well as getting the PC to run without being bogged down with cpu hogs. 
It's well worth the price to me.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Cogeco advertise that their security service is second to none. Do you think that AVG' s full suite service might be better than Cogeco' s for which I currently pay $2 per month?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's not a trial. It's free indefinitely (they just ask you nicely if you want to upgrade). All the other things they try to upsell you on are not necessary.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Belguy said:


> Cogeco advertise that their security service is second to none. Do you think that AVG' s full suite service might be better than Cogeco' s for which I currently pay $2 per month?


I'm not on cable internet, so I can't answer your question. 
Years ago I was on cable internet (Rogers) and *I had some issues with their internet security offered as part of their cable package*..so I bought and installed
Norton, and got rid of the Rodgers free anti-virus. 

If Cogeco, gives you periodic updates on all the new viruses out there that can infect your PC..then at $2 a month ($24 a year), it's not a bad deal, I suppose. 

You won't know for sure how effective their AV is until you have a problem..until then..it's like insurance..you may not need to collect on it..but it's peace of mind to know that you can.
Contrary to what some say..(getting by without any virus protection)...if you never go out on the internet..or download anything..you (probably) don't need any anti-virus. 

Hacker attacks against your computer (not having a firewall) may be a different matter entirely though.


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## PoolAndRapid (Dec 3, 2013)

..


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

One week to go until Microsoft stops supporting Windows XP.

I would be interested in knowing how many of you plan to continue using Windows XP after April 8, your thinking in doing so and any extra precautions that you are taking. Thanks!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

My employer plans to use XP for quite some time yet, so there you have it!


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