# Would you pay...



## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

$30,850 (including freight and taxes) for a brand new pearl white 2014 Mazda CX 5 GS? It's a mid level equipped small suv. I managed to get dealer to give $3000. Don't know if we should just do it. Discount include $1,500 cash discount and $1,500 off their mark up as well as free life long oil change


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

This may seem weird considering we have a expensive Shelby Mustang sitting in our garage which we bought with intentions to keep for 25-30 years.I would not purchase a brand new car you are better off to buy something a year old with low km so I would look on auto trader for similar cars.We just traded the car our housekeeper uses on a 2011 ford escape with 50,000 km , it was $13,900 and they gave us 6k for our 2008 Saturn Vue so it was painless purchase with total cash $9282.


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

I know Marina628. I tried to convince my husband to buy a used one. He said why bother then since we already have an old car:rolleyes2:

He reasoned that he deserves a brand new car and he intends to drive it for a long time like we have done with our current 13 year old Honda (which still runs fine).

I just wanted to check with you guys (the experts) whether I have got a good deal or not.

Thanks.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I hate white cars, so definitely not. 

Honestly I have no clue if that's a good deal. But if you get it, I hope you enjoy it!


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

My husband hates white too. He made me call around and I finally located a meteor grey one at another dealership who would match the deal. I remember not getting much of a discount from our Honda civic purchase 13 years ago so I thought maybe $3000 is a good deal??


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## Video_Frank (Aug 2, 2013)

Have you tried carcostcanada? I have bought a few cars that way. The CX5 is fairly popular and the price does seem in the ball park though.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

No, but then the last car I bought cost less than my average monthly spending. 2 years of insurance is equal to the entire cost of the car


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Having no mortgage and looking like our net worth will just keep climbing especially since my husband's pensions will easily cover our monthly expenses, isn't it OK to splurge a little and buy a new car once every 13 years? I guess I am trying to convince myself it is OK to buy although we are very frugal people who don't normally spend easily.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Don't know. The last new car that I bought many years ago was one that I was able to write 60 percent off on my taxes.

I do not like to incur the large amount of depreciation that occurs in the few years.. We buy 3-4 year low mileage old high end Japanese labels-some of which are made in Canada.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

@piano mom, i'd say go for it. From what I've seen, if you keep a new car for the long term (providing it lasts), there isn't a huge advantage of buying used.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Nothing wrong with buying a new car. It's a bit of a myth that you can buy a 1 or 2 year old car in good shape and save big bucks. Doesn't happen.

I think in general, it's cheaper to buy older cars ie buy at 5 years old and keep 5+ years, but you are looking at far more hassle with repairs etc. If you are on a budget, then nothing wrong with that - I did it for a long time. In your case - buy new.

I recommend silver however - it's the cleanest looking colour.


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks guys. Just bought a new Mazda CX-5 GS meteor grey color  Feeling very nervous having spent the money although I know we can afford it. It is this kind of frugality that got us our findependence in the first place


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Piano mom, the fact that you seem to be trying to justify your purchase to a bunch of people on a message board is a bit strange to me. From what I've seen of your situation, there is very little to be sheepish about.

As a young guy in 2000 I bought a pickup for around 34k... 14 years later the truck still looks mint and I will likely drive it for another 14.... Buying a new quality vehicle(do your research!), looking after it well, and keeping it long after the payments were gone has proved to be a great financial decision.

Enjoy the new ride!!!!


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## 30seconds (Jan 11, 2014)

If you got it off the lot for 30,00 after everything, nothing to complain about that. Did the one you get have the 2.5l? I hope so! 

If you keep a vehicle for its whole life nothing wrong with buying it new. You know all the maintenance and abuse so for the couple thousand you would save buying a 1-2 year used car I think its worth it. Plus you might get better financing and the full length of the warranty.

Enjoy the new car smell!


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Jon_Snow said:


> Piano mom, the fact that you seem to be trying to justify your purchase to a bunch of people on a message board is a bit strange to me.


Jon, you have probably seen me in the lower mainland and thought I was a bag lady. Lol. I am a very plain person and buying a brand new car is not my norm. Without intervention, I would probably end up like that homeless old lady who was found dead and over $800,000 in her bank account.:tongue-new:


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

30seconds said:


> Did the one you get have the 2.5l? I hope so!


Yes, it does have 2.5l and felt very powerful compared to my Honda Civic.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

piano mom said:


> Jon, you have probably seen me in the lower mainland and thought I was a bag lady. Lol. I am a very plain person and buying a brand new car is not my norm. Without intervention, I would probably end up like that homeless old lady who was found dead and over $800,000 in her bank account.:tongue-new:


I know of what you speak... we bought a $2000 TV lately. My wife and I experienced a lot of angst over this. In 2013 we saved almost 100k. To become stressed out about spending a couple grand is not rational, and I think about this sometimes. I try to convince myself that this behaviour stems from our desire to save in an extreme manner so that I can quit my meat grinder career... then I read about millionaire hoarders and wonder about the road we are travelling down.:distrust:


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Sure I have bought a new car, yep more than one. I never would have considered it as I used to think it was a waste of money. My spouse wants new cars. If you can afford and to really doesn't take away your ability to purchase something else that you would get more enjoyment out of, then do it.

That's how I make my rational.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

piano mom said:


> $30,850 (including freight and taxes) for a brand new pearl white 2014 Mazda CX 5 GS? *It's a mid level equipped small suv*. I managed to get dealer to give $3000. Don't know if we should just do it. Discount include $1,500 cash discount and $1,500 off their mark up as well as free life long oil change


Ok..the free "lifetime oil change" must be the deal maker.:biggrin:

What taxes? Just the A/C excise tax ($100) or your HST or whatever taxes you pay in your province. 
What is the list of options it comes with..or did you investigate those?

Are you paying $27,850 cash or is this on finance, and what rate and for how long? 5 years, 6 years or 7 years to keep the payments low.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

no- Mazda dealer for 60 km radius, so no. 

If you want an SUV like that, consider a low mileage Mitsubishi - they have 10 year powertrain warr, so you could get one several years old and still have plenty of warranty.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

You would know better than me, whether the car suits you and whether it is a good buy. I will only say this. In this day of low interest rates, special deals from car dealers,and high priced used cars you may well be better off buying a new car. It can actually be cheaper than buying a used car.

The best deal is to buy a new car, break it in carefully and maintain it by the book, and drive it for 10 or 20 years until it is worn out. This gives you the best transportation value over time.


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

For me, a dollar spent on a rapidly depreciating asset is a double whammy because there is lost opportunity for the saved money. But, if someone travels in the US, needing that bumper to bumper factory warranty, or has a marketing job where clients are riding in the car, showing a new one may have positive results.



Four Pillars said:


> Nothing wrong with buying a new car. It's a bit of a myth that you can buy a 1 or 2 year old car in good shape and save big bucks. Doesn't happen.


certainly rare - with the internet, people are much more wise to actual values. However, I _did _buy an 18 month old car for <50% of new, but that was 5 years ago. And, it wasn't a cookie cutter vehicle and I'm not sure that's possible with any car any more.

If one saves $10K by buying used, they actually save $11.3K with tax. (in ON at least, not sure how vehicle taxes work in BC)


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The best deal is to buy a new car, break it in carefully and maintain it by the book, and drive it for 10 or 20 years until it is worn out. This gives you the best transportation value over time.


Ummm..Rusty..the new cars made these days will not last 20 years. 10 maybe, but that isn't without some money spent on repairs after the manufacturer's warranty runs out. 



> All Mazda vehicles except B-Series:
> Any component of your Mazda Vehicle deemed defective is* covered for 36 months or 80,000 km, whichever comes first,* from the earlier date of either retail delivery or first use of the Mazda Vehicle.


So more than likely the manufacturer's warranty will expire before you put 80,000 on it.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We bought a used full load V6 Honda Accord a few years ago. 48K on the clock. We paid 21K. At that time a new one with the identical options was selling for 38K list plus environmental taxes, plus I think PDI. After putting new tires on it, I figured we were ahead about $16K after tax over a new ride. Plus another $100-$150 was saved per year on our automobile insurance. 

We expect to keep the car for 15 years. The money we saved up front by buying used paid for a few very nice vacations. 

The downside...it took us about 2 months to find the 'right' car, ie accident free, right price, right label, right options.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

FrugalTrader said:


> @piano mom, i'd say go for it. From what I've seen, if you keep a new car for the long term (providing it lasts), there isn't a huge advantage of buying used.


As FT mentioned buying new is fine as long as you intend to keep for a long time. When you really start to lose money is by purchasing a new vehicle every 2-4 years. We bought our car new and fully intend to keep it for at least 10 years (or more)


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I think there are some instances where a new car is a good purchase. We wanted to get a Forester, 2009-2013. I looked and looked for a used model, with a preference for a manual transmission. They don't come up for sale very often and when they do, the depreciation is minimal. I did find one (a year ago), a 2009, standard with 60K on it. All in, it would have been just under 24K. Then you look at brand new, and we could get a 2013, with no miles, and full warranty, for just under 28K all in. Why on earth wouldn't you?

The bonus being that we had the cash saved up and due to great financing rates (0.5%) were able to put the cash towards the mortgage instead. We used carcost canada, I came in with a printed letter, signed with the offer. They chatted internally for 3 mins and accepted.

I won't follow a hard and fast rule that you need to keep a new car for X years for it to make sense. I think there's a lot of variability. I look at the cost per month of ownership for the depreciation including major repairs, but not maintenance.
Right now, my 2000 accord (bought in 2009) is running around $78/mo depreciation. I estimate the 2013 forester to be running around $180/mo depreciation. Considering the extra safety, utility, comfort, and confidence that it gives my wife, I think that's a fair cost.
When it comes time to replace my accord later this year, I'll be looking at reliable used car that has had an atrocious depreciation over the first 3-4 years. I am thinking a 2010 or 2011 Hyundai Genesis sedan. Can pick one up for 18-19K.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Most importantly you are looking at the class leader in the small SUV category. GOOD. Buying a new car makes good sense......if you definitely keep the vehicle 6-7 years+. The advantage of a full warranty, a car that you personally know how it's been treated outweighs a small saving you *might* get in a 1-2 year old car. Despite all the hype it's a bit of a myth to get a great deal on a good nearly new car, other than high volume ones in the sedan or basic category used in fleets and rentals like Altima etc. Small foreign SUV- no...no real deals on used. Nobleea has the right idea on considering depreciation cost, which is exactly how I do it too. Basically this varies a lot by vehicle make, model, and category. 

You are also getting a vehicle in the early life of its redesign which has some positive impact on future value, and at the same time you enjoy a better vehicle overall.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

carverman said:


> Ummm..Rusty..the new cars made these days will not last 20 years. 10 maybe, but that isn't without some money spent on repairs after the manufacturer's warranty runs out.
> 
> 
> 
> So more than likely the manufacturer's warranty will expire before you put 80,000 on it.


I have been driving 10 to 20 year old used cars for 50 years and the ones you get today are better and more reliable than ever. I can almost always find a good used car for $1000 or less, if I have a few weeks to look. It`s gotten to the point where I no longer bother doing major repairs. If a car needs work I just junk it and buy a better one.

It is a cinch to get 10 or 20 years out of a car, and drive it for 300,000 or 400,000 Km without major repairs. I saw it when I was in the garage business years ago. Customers who maintained their vehicle by the book, racked up astonishing mileages with reliability and without major repairs. It didn`t seem to matter much what kind of car they bought. Sure, Toyota was at the top of the list but I saw Renaults and Fords go over 400,000 KM without a breakdown too.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I have been driving 10 to 20 year old used cars for 50 years and the ones you get today are better and more reliable than ever. I can almost always find a good used car for $1000 or less, if I have a few weeks to look. It`s gotten to the point where I no longer bother doing major repairs. If a car needs work I just junk it and buy a better one.


Well that's a bit of a hassle isn't it? You buy these junkers (pardon the expression) that may have mechanical issues, go through the hassle of changing ownership and paying HST to the MOT,
(even if it's only $130 for a $1000 vehicle), then have to get the insurance changed over..and pay for the safety check for each vehicle.. and you decided not to do major repairs, like brakes,
suspension or steering. So I guess you only use these to go to the corner store and back? :rolleyes2:



> It is a cinch to get 10 or 20 years out of a car, and drive it for 300,000 or 400,000 Km without major repairs. I saw it when I was in the garage business years ago. Customers who maintained their vehicle by the book, racked up astonishing mileages with reliability and without major repairs. It didn`t seem to matter much what kind of car they bought. Sure, Toyota was at the top of the list but I saw Renaults and Fords go over 400,000 KM without a breakdown too.


 I hope they weren't driving Chryslers..(Dodge)..the 1998 Dakota I bought brand new..was reliable for about 5 years,then started to fall apart mechanically, chewed up rotors 
and seized calipers (twice) as well as rusted brake lines with brake failures on the highway (complete loss of braking!!) ..poor suspension, the ball joints had to be replaced at 85,000 km...it was the worst POS vehicle I had ever owned in my life. 

I spent over $5,000 in repairs and parts for it in the last 3 years that I owned it..and had to make a decision...fix it up.. and maybe get a grand (or two) for it...or call the junk yard to tow it away. I ended up pouring another $2,000 into it to replace all the rusted brake lines, master cylinder and brakes and in the end managed to get about $3,000 for it. My neighbour across the street, who bought it from me is still driving it. It is now 16 years old, but he's had to repair the engine as well.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

jacofan said:


> A good friend of mine (a mechanic too) bought his truck new in 1977, he changed the oil once/year "whether it needed it or not"  and he finally had to rebuild the engine about 10 years ago after over 400,000km. No other major repairs. He said that he saved enough money by doing oil changes this way (every 20-30,000km) that his engine overhaul was free. Yeah, driving a 1977 Ford pickup in 2005 isn't as nice as a modern one for sure but he scoffed at those who changed their oil every 5,000kms.


Well as they say YMMMV (your mileage may vary). 
Vehicles made pre-the computer controlled engine/chassis management era..you could certainly keep going for 20 years or more.
Not as easy these days with electronic sensors up the ying-yang with the newer cars to keep them for 20 years.

In my 1998 Dodge Dakota truck, that has an Engine management computer..it had a lot of sensors to generate engine timing (spark and fuel injection)
as well as oxygen sensors in the exhaust. If the crank/cam sensors failed to function..engine would shut down and not run requiring a tow to the nearest garage. 
The oxygen sensors..(2 of them) had to be replaced as well, because the annoying "check engine" light would come on when they were worn out. 
I also had an electronically controlled automatic transmission that had a rpm shift sensor to get into higher gears to save on fuel..one of those crapped out on me and the transmission would not shift properly. 

In the 70s, I had a 1978 Pontiac Pariesiene and Chev Caprice..great cars..
no sensors, no computers..only electronic ignition which was very reliable...now we have new vehicles with all kinds of sensors and problems created by them.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

jacofan said:


> so true carverman - need a computer guy not a wrench puller these days to work on a car


Yes, and this is the major issue with the newer cars...if you get a check engine light and read it with a OBDII handheld code reader, that you pretty much need to buy and carry
around with you, under certain failures, you can determine which sensor is reporting a problem or failed completely. Then you need to purchase the sensor and figure
out where it goes..so you need a shop manual with a wiring diagram and a sensor location diagram. Then you need to figure out how to remove the sensor and replace it
with a ripoff-priced OEM sensor or an aftermarket kind. Some of the sensors are intermittent, so they work then they don't. The speed sensor (which failed on me and affected
both the speedometer and antil-lock brake controller was located in the differential housing.

Going back to what some posters have mentioned that you can keep a modern vehicle for 10-20 years...well lets say that if you can do all the mechanical and electrical diagnostics,
and parts replacement..maybe it is possible..but at $113 an hour for mechanical work + parts + the surprise element when all of a sudden you are going 80km and the brake pedal
goes down all the way to the floor (brake line rots out and splits, losing ALL the brake fluid in the master cylinder), "brake light comes on" and you HAVE NO BRAKES!!!...
besides the "oh oh! (expletive) exclamation as you are trying to figure out how to come to a stop without rear-ending someone..
you suddenly realize that maybe..just maybe, you kept this vehicle a bit too long! 

Stainless steel brake lines and better brake parts would help..but the manufactures don't care..all they need is make sure that the parts they put on last as
long as the warranty period is in effect, which is based on time in months or km..which ever comes first. After that you are on your own.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

piano mom said:


> Having no mortgage and looking like our net worth will just keep climbing especially since my husband's pensions will easily cover our monthly expenses, isn't it OK to splurge a little and buy a new car once every 13 years? I guess I am trying to convince myself it is OK to buy although we are very frugal people who don't normally spend easily.


We spent $116,000 in one year so I can't preach but we bought a special edition sports car we plan to keep for 25 years. A car we plan to run into the ground and devalue I will buy used any time.Our sports car is 4 years old and only has 11000 km on it.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> We spent $116,000 in one year so I can't preach but we bought a special edition sports car we plan to keep for 25 years. A car we plan to run into the ground and devalue I will buy used any time.Our sports car is 4 years old and only has 11000 km on it.


What does spending $116K on a sports car have to do with frugality? :biggrin:


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I`ve had several Chrysler cars and minivans in the past. My present ride is a 2000 Ford Windstar that cost $600, 3 years ago. I bought it from the original owner and it had 124,000 Km on it. It cost $700 in repairs to get it certified. Now it has 185,000 Km. I expect to get another year or 2 out of it, before it needs major repairs. 

I also had a Dakota like yours. Bought it when it was 12 years old, used it for 4 years doing renovations on properties I own, one of them 100Km from my house. Finally junked it last year.

I know people who spend $600 a month on a car payment. This is fine with me. To each his own.

As I said before, if you have the money and don`t want to worry about a car, buy a new one, maintain it by the book and keep it for as long as you can. This is the best transportation value for the average person. I prefer to do things a little differently.

I will do repairs on my vehicles as necessary but I will not spend big money ($1000) keeping a clunker going when I can sell it and buy a better one. Years ago I would replace or rebuild engines, transmissions etc to keep a car on the road but this is no longer necessary. There are plenty of good used cars going cheap if you know what to look for and are patient.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

carverman said:


> What does spending $116K on a sports car have to do with frugality? :biggrin:


It doesn't have anything to do with it but my point is if you are going to buy a mass produced car that you plan to rack up the miles on a slightly used is way to go  If you want to buy A Lamborghini and keep it in the garage buy new


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Carverman I am not going to get into a thing with you but you have made several statements that any mechanic would know are impossible, and never happened, at least not the way you describe them.

I can look around any supermarket or mall parking lot and see plenty of vehicles 10 to 20 years old. They do not belong to antique car collectors, but to ordinary motorists who would not be driving them if they were as bad as you say.

Do whatever you like, you do not have to justify yourself to us.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Carverman I am not going to get into a thing with you *but you have made several statements that any mechanic would know are impossible,* *and never happened, at least not the way you describe them.*
> 
> 
> But they did happen..in this Dodge truck that I bought new. Ok, some failures are unpredictable, but the brake lines rotting out and bursting (the rear first) and then one of the fronts, that jeopardized my saftey and my life...*I would have never suspected when I bought the truck new*. It was my first Chrysler product in my life and the last one too!





> I can look around any supermarket or mall parking lot and see plenty of vehicles 10 to 20 years old. They do not belong to antique car collectors, but to ordinary motorists who would not be driving them if they were as bad as you say.


You can still drive them, but at 10 years old, the more modern ones reach a state unreliability where mechanical parts and sensors start to go and need to be replaced at very expensive labour rates, if you can't do the repairs yourself.
I did pretty much most of my repairs to my truck (brakes, over the hood and even replacing the shocks) when I was able to....and yes it did serve me 14 years..
1998 to June 2012),when I sold it to my neighbour..btw, he still has it and is still driving it...
but in order to pass the safety to sell it..it cost me $1200 in repairs in the spring before I sold it.

So, if I rationalize what I spent on it new ($28,000 with taxes) to buy it in 1998 and about $6,000 of repairs over the years, which does NOT included any wear and tear items, like tires..
it cost me $32,000 in total or about $2,280 a year of ownership to get those extra years out of it. ..and all those repairs started in year 7 and it got more expensive to repair every year after that.
I forgot to mention that besides the brake lines rotting out, the transmision cooler lines rotted out and sprung a leak..lost most of my transmission fluid. $500 repair job to repair the transmission lines and change fluid and filter on the transmission at 50,000. The front and rear bumpers rusted out from the inside...and it was oil sprayed every year too!



> Do whatever you like, you do not have to justify yourself to us.


Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in this last statement from you? 

As I mentioned..YMMV (your mileage may vary)..it depends on the year, the manufacture and model of your vehicle, the mileage you put on, especially in winter road conditions,
where there is more salt on the streets and highways, and the way the car is put together.

My boarder bought a used 2002 Mazda Protege...it has now over 128,00km on it...engine and transmission are still good, but last year we had to repair the rust around the rear fenders
and on the hood..and in the fall, he discovered that the uni-body floor had rusted out underneath, and the car could have collapsed on him at some point as there was very little strength
in the rusted out members between the engine and the rear wheels. 

It was ready for the junk yard AFTER 11 YEARS...as it was deemed unsafe..but we finally found one garage that had a good welder,and managed to repair (weld new frame members) in 
to make it last another year or two...cost $800..it was a lot of work..but otherwise the car would have gone to the scrapyard.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> It doesn't have anything to do with it but my point is if you are going to buy a mass produced car that you plan to rack up the miles on a slightly used is way to go  If you want to buy A Lamborghini and keep it in the garage buy new


Marina, I fully agree with you. 

Buying used, if you do your research on the vehicle FIRST (Consumers Reports give you a fairly accurate picture of most models from owner polls), 
their reliability, and the repair isues per model year. The other way to protect yourself from a "dud" that could cost you a lot of money on repairs, is to have a independent mechanic you can trust, 
do a complete mechanical check on the used vehicle you are interested in and get his opinion. 
Even though a vehicle has passed a dealer's (or curbside seller's) safety, doesn't mean that there are other things on the vehicle that may cause problems which wouldn't necessarilly
show up on the safety inspection ...or right away. 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/index.htm


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If a car is ready for the junkyard let it go. There are lots more where that one came from. That is my point. After driving old cars for 50 years, my experience tells me new cars are more reliable, long lived and trouble free than ever before. But if they have a major breakdown forget about fixing them. You have nothing to work with. Old cars were made to be repaired and rebuilt during their working life, new cars are made to be scrapped.

Yes it is something of a gamble to pay $1000 or $2000 for a car that may break down in six months or a year (but may not). That is the kind of gamble I can accept if the alternative is to pay $300 to $700 every month in car payments.

Most people do not agree and that is fine with me. I perfectly understand why someone would never touch a used car, and always buys new. I think they are wise to do so. I also think, that if they break in their new car carefully and maintain it by the book, they can look forward to long, trouble free service. And that buying a new car, and keeping it as long as possible is better than trading every year or 2, from a financial standpoint.

I don`t know how I can say it any plainer. If you do not agree that is your privilege.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> If a car is ready for the junkyard let it go. .... new cars are made to be scrapped.
> Yes it is something of a gamble to pay $1000 or $2000 for a car that may break down in six months or a year (but may not).
> That is the kind of gamble I can accept if the alternative is to pay $300 to $700 every month in car payments.


I think we have drifted off from the original topic a bit here Rusty. I don't think that I mentioned paying $25K plus for a new vehicle (including all that tax that goes with the
new car smell) was a good idea for those that are frugal. This is a frugal topic discussion after all..is it not?

The point we are discussing is whether it is worth keeping these newer cars (ones that are made after 2000) more than 10 years and what it would cost in yearly maintenace
and repairs once the mileage goes up to the point where things start to break down. As you say..that is a bridge that you have to cross when you get there..whether the
10 year old vehicle's residual value is worth more in repair cost compared to it's residual value. 
Most dealers on tradein will just give you a flat (wholesale) "crusher price" of $500 on a tradein on a new vehicle at that point. 

Case in point..a friend of mine traded in perfectly good 2000 Taurus wagon with the Yamaha based deluxe V6 engine on a new 2012 Jeep Patriot . 

The Chrysler dealer allowed her $500 tradein in a 12 year old Ford car that was still in perfectly good working order (no rust)..except the air conditioning needed some work..
and that was (according to the Ford dealer estimate of $500 or more) to repair.
She decided that it was time to get a new car..and off she went to dealer to get a Jeep ($26,000) - $500 tradein + taxes and other dealer charges...now she's making monthly payments over 5 years.

It's a suv, she lives in the city, so she really doesn't need a 4 wheel drive but it's the comfort level of having it..she says. 
So , if the design life on the newer cars and SUV's is around 150,000km, and she puts on it 12,000km a year..she could get 18 years out if it..but the last 5 years will be a lot more expensive
for repairs.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

In April 2012 we bought our 2008 Saturn Vue for $10,900 + tx ,we just traded it and got 6k plus the tx savings towards a slightly newer car.It did cost us 3k a year when you think of it on what the trade dropped but it was a decent reliable car.One of my PSW workers drives junkers she pays $1000 for and I figured it out that she lost 7 days last year at work because the car didn't start not including repair bills and she earns $128 a day.Anyway to the OP let us know what you bought


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## piano mom (Jan 18, 2012)

Marina, we bought a 2014 Mazda CX-5 GS. It is a small SUV that has the best gas mileage in its class, at least that is what we were told - will find out soon enough 

Our reason for getting this new car:

My husband's job got a permanent status that means he can retire when HE wants and not a forced one. He plans to retire in 9 years at which point, his two company pensions would be sufficient to pay for our monthly expenses plus the company will also cover our medicals. We still have a small rental income, respectable dividend income and comes age 67, 2 OAS and CPP. Our forecast shows that we would not need to withdraw any money from our own savings and that our net worth would just keep going up. In light of this projection, we thought to ourselves, why not start enjoying a little instead of waiting until we are older? 

We are not big travellors - I am a real homebody, lol. However, we like to do short road trips a couple times a year ( very likely more traveling after kids grown up and husband retired). With this new and more powerful car, we can enjoy our road trips better


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## Tightwad (Mar 28, 2014)

piano mom said:


> Discount include $1,500 cash discount and $1,500 off their mark up as well as free life long oil change


I would not buy a one or two year old car simply because they are never discounted enough compared to what I can get the same car new for after dealing.

A few tips when buying a new car: never take any of the "extras" that dealers love to sell you such as rust-proofing, paint sealants, interior carpet and fabric protection, accessories and that totally useless anti-theft serialized stickers they stick on body parts. By the way, the latter which is usually already installed by the dealer, you do not have to pay for. Its not part of the car as delivered by the manufacturer. These are thousands of dollars in extras that are a HUGE profit for the dealer.

Also, do not buy extended warranties and especially not from third parties sold by dealers. If you absolutely have to, get an extended warranty that is offered by the manufacturer (not the dealer) and read the fine print.

The big discounts that dealers like to make you believe that you got are hardly worth the paper they are printed on when you consider that dealers charge about $1500 for freight and pre-delivery inspection. What, I am paying to make sure there is oil in my new car and that the wheels won't fall off....oh, please!!!

Then there is that administration fee which can run about $400. Pure gravy for the dealer and since they had no such fee 30 years ago, how did they sell cars back then? Besides, if they paid an office clerk $20 and hour, why does it take 20 hours to process a sale. LOL

I'd pay list price less 5 to 8% (depends on the vehicle) + $500 + tax and less any incentives by the manufacturer.


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## the_apprentice (Jan 31, 2013)

Buying used makes sense from a cost perspective, there's no doubt about it (especially in a money forum).

I believe you get what you pay for. Purchases are subjective depending on our necessities, wants, and/or likes. I have purchased both of my vehicles New and do not look back. Although there is an opportunity cost that comes with buying new, having the newest technology/body comes as a bonus. Reliability for a new car is well worth the cost to time ratio in dealerships/mechanics.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Nothing wrong with buying new at 0% financing if you intend to keep the car for at least 10 years. Just my thoughts. Full warranty as well, new toys in the car, etc. The benefits go on.


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## Tightwad (Mar 28, 2014)

the_apprentice said:


> Buying used makes sense from a cost perspective, there's no doubt about it (especially in a money forum).


Not when I was looking at used cars. They were all priced too high in comparison to new.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> Nothing wrong with buying new at 0% financing if you intend to keep the car for at least 10 years. Just my thoughts. Full warranty as well, new toys in the car, etc. The benefits go on.


0% financing is usually not really 0%. They have already factored it in the price. We brought new with 0% financing. We offered cash and got about 8% off.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Plugging Along said:


> 0% financing is usually not really 0%. They have already factored it in the price. We brought new with 0% financing. We offered cash and got about 8% off.


Would it not balance itself out over the 82wks / finance period considering you can keep your money invested? It really come downs to how good of a negotiator you are. Some people are able to get 0% financing and pay pretty close to the price they'd pay if they paid one lump sum in cash.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

We negotiated down the price assuming 0% financing. After we got the lowest price there, then we got another 8% off. 

I don't know how people would know they got the same price as if the paid lump sum unless, the negotiate them down, and they won't go down any further, so they take the 0%

It could balance out over the 82 weeks, wow, do they even finance that long on a car. But I am gaurenteed the amount upfront. I have lost money on my investments too.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Sorry. I meant 84 months (7yrs). I believe Nissan and Mazda has offered this in the recent past if not currently.

Could you not negotiate with multiple dealerships? Once you've got the delearship down to the lowest lump sum cash purchase price (as in your post) you could attempt to get that same price at dealership in another town for 0% financing. I've seen a few scenario's play out similar to this in the past.

So far I've stuck to purchasing used. Normally 4-5 yrs old. I'd be crunching some numbers and checking multiple delearships before I decided between paying cash or taking a 0% financing offer.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Usually the 0% are national ads and dealerships have very little to move on these.The dealership makes their profits off year end numbers and you usually get the discount if you don't take the 0% as they are buying down the rate for you at the bank.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

Plugging Along said:


> We negotiated down the price assuming 0% financing. After we got the lowest price there, then we got another 8% off.
> 
> I don't know how people would know they got the same price as if the paid lump sum unless, the negotiate them down, and they won't go down any further, so they take the 0%
> 
> It could balance out over the 82 weeks, wow, do they even finance that long on a car. But I am gaurenteed the amount upfront. I have lost money on my investments too.


Usually the best bet is to invest in something like carcost canada dealer invoice pricing. When you go into the dealership knowing their cost you can normally buy for 2-5% over invoice if cash, making them aware you are willing to shop if they don't play ball. This normally makes for a lot quicker transaction and very little horse trading. After agreeing on a price then you can look into the financing through dealership/manufacturer vs on your own, if required. That way you know the true best deal on the vehicle and know the true cost of financing. Many people go wrong trying to negotiate on the payment or the rate and everything gets muddied down, which is where the dealer wants you to be. Price first, then financing.

Also the dealer invoice pricing from places like carcost does not include additional discounts/rebates the dealer gets from the manufacturer when the vehicle is sold and warranty registered. This is usually in the 2% range, so they're always doing slightly better than they make you think. 

If you got 8% or more off the list price then you likely did very well. There isn't normally that kind of margin to work with on cars. If you also got true 0% financing then you got an almost unheard of deal. However, manufacturers often subsidize this financing heavily vs. offering rebates/discounts and some depends on model, supply demand etc


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