# Converting RRSP to a RRIF



## ttibsen (Sep 27, 2015)

I turned 71 this year so I have to do the conversion by the end of this year. I have my rrsp with TD. Can the conversion to a rrif be done online or do I have to visit my branch to fill out a paper form?


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

When I last worked there, it couldn’t be done online. If you do Nothing , it will be done automatically for you but still good to visit a branch to confirm the details either before or after conversion (ie. payment frequency, payment account, beneficiary)


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Are you referring to TD as TD Bank? TD Asset Management? TD Direct Investing? Ask them!

Some (all?) discount brokerages will automatically start the process for you before the end of the calendar year if you have not initiated the process on your own. Generally speaking, a signed RRIF application has to be completed along with a request to transfer the contents of the RRSP to the RRIF.

Spouse initiated herself in 2019 with RBC Direct Investing. It was a multi-page online fillable PDF she accessed from her online RBC DI account which was electronically submitted except for the signature page which had to be mailed in.

I will be doing one this year via Scotia iTrade. They said they would initiate on their own and just send me selected pages that I needed to complete the data input on, e.g. (how I wanted to make withdrawals in terms of frequency and dates, how much to withdraw such as annual minimum, where the withdrawals would be sent too, and how much tax I want withheld) and the signature page.


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## ttibsen (Sep 27, 2015)

Thanks so much for the responses - that is very helpful. My RRSP is with TD Direct Investing. I haven't asked them anything because you can't get through to these folks at this time - they're completely tied up. But that's OK because, thanks to your answers, I know what I have to do next. I'll give it a week or two then go down to my branch to pick up the rrif application form.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

ttibsen said:


> Thanks so much for the responses - that is very helpful. My RRSP is with TD Direct Investing. I haven't asked them anything because you can't get through to these folks at this time - they're completely tied up. But that's OK because, thanks to your answers, I know what I have to do next. I'll give it a week or two then go down to my branch to pick up the rrif application form.


why not just wait? No action is necessary until at least Nov/dec. they’re swamped there helping customers with mortgage deferrals, credit restructuring etc. It’s probably chaos In the back offices. from what I recall, the process occurs involves sitting down with an advisor for about 30 mins. Why not wait and let them get Back on their feet. TDDI is working through turbulent times and tax season which also place stresses on the system.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I would agree with waiting another 6 months or so. TDDI may initiate on their own by Sept or so if you don't take action. TDDI needs to make sure you have an active RRIF before the end of December per legistation, and so they calculate your 2021 minimum annual withdraw amount based on the market value of your RRIF as of Dec 31st. 2020.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

In two years when I have to address this situation, I hoped that TDDI would allow a date of something like Dec 15 to withdraw the minimum for the year. 

My intention would be to have already withdrawn that amount through the year when a GIC came due from my ladder. These GIC maturity dates might occur at any time through the year, and when they do I plan to remove the minimum withdrawal for the year and then re-invest the remainder in a new GIC for the ladder.

Then when the Dec 15 date arrives TDDI would see that the funds had already been withdrawn and they would close the case for the year.

Does this seem reasonable?

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

From what I recall for a branch based RIF account......when the RIF payment is due, the payment is made from the lowest rate GIC. the GIC wasn’t cashed in full, rather the principal of the GIC was reduced by the payment amount. Not 100% certain on this.......my last 2 branches have very little RIF clientele.

Not sure if a GIC in a TDDI account is handled the same. If it is handled the same, you be better off reinvesting the whole amount at maturity and allow the TD system to withdraw from the lowest rate GIC.....all depends on the rate environment and the rates Held in your portfolio.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with a Dec 15th date for withdrawal of the annual minimum although some brokerages may not want a date later than Dec 1st (my speculation). I plan to do the same to ensure GICs and/or bonds that mature throughout the year mature before withdrawal date so I can set aside the funds too.

@Money: discount brokerages are order takers. It is better to control this oneself. One can always buy a new GIC with the proceeds not needed for the withdrawal, and then to take out the annual minimum if one wants too right away and put it in an online HISA like EQ Bank.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> I see nothing wrong with a Dec 15th date for withdrawal of the annual minimum although some brokerages may not want a date later than Dec 1st (my speculation). I plan to do the same to ensure GICs and/or bonds that mature throughout the year mature before withdrawal date so I can set aside the funds too.
> 
> @Money: discount brokerages are order takers. It is better to control this oneself. One can always buy a new GIC with the proceeds not needed for the withdrawal, and then to take out the annual minimum if one wants too right away and put it in an online HISA like EQ Bank.


what’s the typical rate difference in HISA between EQ And major banks? Likely wouldn’t be worth it for Me. I view HISA as very short term in nature.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There is a range of online banks with HISAs. EQ happens to be 2% currently but it doesn't matter. Once the minimum has been withdrawn, it can spent or re-invested in anything one wants. The issue here is how to manage RRIF withdrawals when one's RRIF is a multi-year bond/GIC ladder.

If I have a GIC or bond mature in my RRIF in February, I take out what I need for my annual withdrawal and roll over the rest in to a new bond or GIC. The minimum can either sit in the RRIF in a brokerage ISA/MMF (currently 0.2-1%), or withdrawn early and put to use elsewhee.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> If I have a GIC or bond mature in my RRIF in February, I take out what I need for my annual withdrawal and roll over the rest in to a new bond or GIC. The minimum can either sit in the RRIF in a brokerage ISA/MMF (currently 0.2-1%), or withdrawn early and put to use elsewhere.


Yes, this was the essence of my post above. My RRSP consists solely of a GIC ladder. Each year a GIC or two comes due at random times, anywhere from January to December. When one comes due I want to immediately re-invest into another GIC to keep the ladder alive and producing maximum return.

But this new cash that's now sitting in the RRSP waiting to be taken to satisfy minimum withdrawal requirements can't be invested in anything except for an HISA (to guarantee its survival). If the withdrawal date was set at the broker to December, that cash could be sitting waiting for up to a year almost. That's a cash drag.

That's why I was questioning if the brokers allows the removal of that arranged minimum at any time through the year and then when that date actually arrives do they simply do nothing since that amount has already been removed at some time through the year?

I also hoped they would allow as late a date as possible (i.e. Dec 30), so if a GIC came due in December, then I would be able to have the cash ready. I certainly wouldn't want them to break up my ladder by taking the payment from the lowest yielding GIC in the ladder (as Money17 indicates above) instead of the 5 year GIC that is about to come due in December?

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

My recollection isn’t the best and it solely relates to branch based RIF accounts. I do believe in those accounts, that if a manual minimum withdrawal was requested prior to the scheduled payment date, then the scheduled payment would be skipped. I believe once it sees the AMP being made, it stops any future automated payments that year. Again, I could be wrong....haven’t touched a RIF account in 10 years.
I would hope the same flexibility applies to TDDI accounts.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I believe there is a final date for the withdrawal that is some time in early to mid december, depending on the brokerage. This likely is to give them time to do the final end of year accounting for RRIF accounts. 
At BMOIL, when my withdrawal amount is posted in my account, the withdrawal date shown is that final date. However, I can withdraw any time prior to that date. I withdraw the full amount in January - usually in-kind shares plus some cash in C$ and US$. If I wanted to split the withdrawals, I could and would have to advise them of the schedule. 

It's been a while since my wife & I converted from RRSPs. We had however already opened small RRIF accounts several years earlier (so withdrawals would be considered pension income) . You can do that prior to when you are 71. Not sure, but our RRSP holdings may have just been moved into the existing RRIFs. I suppose we did fill in some forms at some point If so, they would likely have been obtained off the BMOIL site. No need to go to a branch, but I think we did just to make use of the interbank courier service!

As said above. Contact TDDI. Are they really that busy? I have been able to talk to BMOIL after acceptable wait time. But don't see that it is that urgent to do that right now.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I do believe latest withdrawal dates are either Dec 1st or 15th, but one has to check with their own brokerage.

Likewise, my understanding is ANY brokerage allows a withdrawal at any time before the scheduled annual withdrawal date but I don't know if they then need to be told NOT to do another minimum annual withdrawal on the scheduled date. My understanding is it is the brokerage's computers that do the scheduled withdrawal, so a human would have to intervene to cancel or modify it for that year.

In my specific case, my first RRIF withdrawal is 2021 and I will program the system for a Dec 1st date each year to accommodate the latest of my maturity dates. However, it just so happens that I have only one maturing GIC that year and it is Febuary. So the plan is to withdraw my minimum then and ask them (Scotia) to cancel the scheduled withdrawal for Dec 1st. I don't know yet what the mechanism is for doing that.... Will know late this year after I set up the RRIF.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> Likewise, my understanding is ANY brokerage allows a withdrawal at any time before the scheduled annual withdrawal date but I don't know if they then need to be told NOT to do another minimum annual withdrawal on the scheduled date.


At BMOIL, I don't have to tell them anything. They by default show the final date and if I withdraw earlier (I always do), it doesn't result in a second withdrawal, because they already know I have made the minimum withdrawal. Been doing it this way for years.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

agent99 said:


> At BMOIL, I don't have to tell them anything. They by default show the final date and if I withdraw earlier (I always do), it doesn't result in a second withdrawal, because they already know I have made the minimum withdrawal. Been doing it this way for years.


That's hopefully the way it is at TDDI.

So if someone had a ladder and there was a GIC maturing Dec 15 and the mandatory withdrawal date was Dec 1, there would be no cash available to withdraw. I would hope they would allow you to tell them which GIC to draw down the principle on.

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

It seems there are differing approaches from different FIs. I‘ve found ones that will take the AMP from the lowest rate GIC, while others will take from the GIC with the nearest maturity date. I too am curious how TDDI does it.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

So Money, which discount brokerages will take from the lowest rate GIC?

I've heard anecdotal info on another forum that RBC Direct Investing does that, but as LTR said, that is not what those of us in ladders want. We want it taken from the GIC with the closest upcoming maturity date.

LTR - I hope you would get a courtesy call to ask first before they act, or if they were actually logical, they'd take it from the GIC maturing 15 days later......


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I didn’t take the time to write down which ones do what......just a quick google search showed there are a variety of methods. I‘m decades away from RIFing. Let me know what you find out. 

ps. Another way to contact TD is through the Communications tool bar within Easyweb. Not sure if they will answer TDDI questions though. I’ve also had success reaching them through Twitter DMs.....their phones still seem backed up/broken.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Money172375 said:


> I’ve also had success reaching them through Twitter DMs.....their phones still seem backed up/broken.


OMG, Twitter? 

As I said earlier in the thread, I still have a year and a half before I have to go down this road, but since I don't have neither a Twitter or Facebook account, that just doesn't work for me and many others I'm afraid.

Hopefully I'll have figured this all out by then and I don't have to resort to freaking Twitter.

ltr


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Hey...it’s an option and probably one of the least busiest channels.


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