# 27 years old, Toronto, squirreling savings away to prepare for starting a family



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

I'm 27 years old. My husband and I live in Toronto. We manage our finances mostly separately, so any figures below reflect only my own numbers. We're planning to start a family within the next year or so. For those who have families - what advice would you give someone starting out?

Here are my assets as of last month:

Cash: $8,614 - mostly sitting in an ING savings account
Non-registered stocks: $76,593 (allocation below)
Bonds in TFSA: $5068 
Non-registered bonds: $386 (I know, I'm just waiting for the e-fund holding period so that I can sell them and reallocate my RRSP)
RRSP: $57,991
GICs: $38,449 - set up as a 5-year ladder with ING, ~$10k sheltered in TFSA
The house is my husband's, so it's not listed here
No debt - MBNA Smart Cash paid off in full each month

Current asset allocation: 66% equity, 12% US equity, 12% international
equity, 9% bonds, all in TD e-funds

Income: $72,664 last year (after tax; includes salary, dividends, interest, and gifts)
Savings rate: about 60-65% of net income

TFSA and RRSP are both maxed out - TFSA currently 66% GICs and 33% bonds, RRSP holds most US equities and bonds, although there are some I still have to shift over from my non-registered portfolio). I'm one of those keeners: I estimate income and RRSP contribution room at the beginning of the year so that I can invest at the start of the RRSP season instead of at the end of it, and I top it up after assessment once I know how far the $2,000 overcontribution room will take me. Someday I might switch my e-funds to index ETFs.

I have a some money set aside in GICs to cover emergency funds, seeing us through starting a family, living expenses for starting a business when I want to, and a possible sabbatical fund (it will be a year of living expenses, saved up over seven years).

I enjoy my work (I'm in IT). I like being frugal, too, so I'm happy to save as much as I can for a potential early retirement - which to me simply means the freedom to work on anything I want to do, whether or not it pays a lot. (As far as I'm concered, my standard of living is already fantastic!) 

We're squirreling away whatever savings we can so that we might have the option of one of us staying home once we start a family. Our relatives don't live close by, so no free babysitting. Oh well! But I think we're in reasonably good shape.

Any advice for someone getting ready to start a family, or heading into her thirties?


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Welcome to the forum!

Wow that's incredible. Not sure what advice I could possibly offer. You have saved an enormous amount of money. I'm jealous of what you have accomplished. Would you care to share how you came into so much wealth? Was there inheritance, lottery win or similar?

What type of dwelling do you have?


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*Good personal finance is boring *

Good personal finance is boring.  No lottery wins, no inheritance, nothing spectacular - just regular savings, living below my means, and learning from as many people as possible. 

It helps to not have any student debt. My parents paid for my schooling, and then I got a scholarship partway through university. Scholarships and research assistantships funded my way through my master's, and I even graduated with some savings. I got a job right away. Since then, I've invested all of my bonuses and refunds, and as much of my earnings as possible.

It also helps that my husband is frugal, and we both like spending time at home. He handles most of the household expenses. I handle groceries and some other expenses, but it's definitely below market rent so that there's no question about his ownership of the house. (This is his second marriage - lessons learned the hard way!) That's spelled out in the marriage contract, too.

We live in a semi-detached house in a decent neighborhood. It's walking distance from a supermarket and a library. We enjoy cooking, and we make practically all of our meals. The chest freezer's definitely a time- and money-saver!

So yeah, it _is_ possible to make it through your quarter-life crisis with decent finances... =)


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

My advice is to....ummm, keep up the good work? 

I'm assuming your hubby has a similar financial profile - if he doesn't, then all your good habits will be wasted.


----------



## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

hi:

Not much to fault here. About all I can add is to present an integrated picture with your husband's finances. After all you are on the same team. 

Also perhaps revisit > $50K sitting around doing SFA in GICs. You have listed good reasons, just check if they are still real.

Also start researching life insurance for when babies start.

hboy43


----------



## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I think you're doing VERY well. Everything looks really good! Have you considered geting some wills done and term life insurance?


----------



## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

Let's review:

Cash: $8,614 (GREAT).

Non-registered stocks: $76,593 (WOW, WOW at 27).

RRSP: $57,991 (WOW at 27).

GICs: $38,449 (Geez, major safety net = AMAZING at 27).

No debt - MBNA Smart Cash paid off in full each month (EXCELLENT at any age).

Do you _really need advice?_

Keep it all going maybe? 

Kidding aside, outstanding work. Most 27-year-olds would be extremely fortunate to be in your shoes. Heck, most 37-year-olds would. 

http://www.myownadvisor.ca/


----------



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Folks, pay attention to the following, this is perhaps the key to success:



inbetweenworlds said:


> Savings rate: about 60-65% of net income


This is indeed an awesome achievement and deserves unqualified praise.
Very well played, hats off to you!


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow.

Do you own cars? How much is your house worth? These two things probably account for the biggest money drain. If you got your house a long time ago and at a bargain, and don't own cars and stay in, I guess that could do it, but saving 60-65% of net income is a remarkable achievement. Seriously. Wait until Addy sees this.


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*the-royal-mail*: Hubby owns a car, I don't. I mostly work from home (hooray for IT!) or take the subway into the office. The weather's starting to warm up, and I'm looking forward to biking to work again. The house is his as well, so I don't consider it part of my net worth. He's doing okay too - fairly frugal, no consumer debt, and making steady progress on a mortgage.

Saving a large portion of one's net income is easy when you don't have a lot of fixed expenses, you don't have ridiculous interest rates from consumer debt, you're a contrarian who doesn't like getting advertised to, and you get your entertainment from the library and the Internet.  Although I do spring for the occasional opera ticket - COC's Opera for a New Age program gives discounts to people younger than 30 years old, and there's community opera too.

I know I'm really lucky to be in this kind of situation, so I'm saving as much as I can in order to take advantage of compounding interest and to prepare for any changes. 

*Jungle, hboy43*: I currently carry minimal insurance, but I'll get term insurance when we've got kids. Hubby has life insurance to cover his daughter, the mortgage, and other things if something happens to him. We'll prepare new wills and redo the marriage contract when we have kids. (Might be a good idea to financially recognize a stay-at-home spouse's contribution, etc.) We self-insure our pets.

*hboy43*: Yup, we're on the same team, but we like keeping our finances separate (at least for now). We're both reasonably good at managing our books, and we split major expenses. Besides, focusing on my numbers alone helps me avoid getting dazzled by combined numbers. =) I can remind myself: "I'm 27, I'm just getting started, I'm going to try to live like a student as long as possible." We've already made some concessions on the student front - recently started buying organic food! - but the more I can resist the hedonic treadmill, the better.

*Four Pillars*: Yup, hubby and I are on the same page. I track my finances more closely than he does, so I do more of our accounting (and I actually enjoy preparing our tax returns - I know, weirdo!). He's better at doing the research to make sure that we get good value. It all works out.

*hboy43*: I used to have 5 years of basic living expenses saved in GICs (starting a family and/or business) plus some capital, and I've moved some of the money to investments instead. If we drop both of our incomes and use those savings to fund all our living expenses, the burn rate would be higher, so I don't mind keeping all that around in something that's only slightly above inflation. I may reallocate once we start a family and figure out what our cashflow/plans are like, so this is more of a temporary holding pattern.

*Financial Cents*: Hey, getting - and actually applying! - all that advice was what got me to where I am now.  I've read a ton of personal finance books (thank you, library), but there are still things that I'm curious about. Parenting is a big cloud of uncertainty, for example. I've been reading about the impact on career/earning potential for women who take time out of the workforce. Scary stuff! But if I manage finances well and maybe even start my own business, it will probably work out. It's annoying that money's such a taboo topic, and it's such a relief to be able to discuss things here. 

I'm still figuring out a lot of things. For example, I like making RRSP contributions as a lump sum at the beginning of the tax year instead of at the end of the tax year or instead of dollar-cost-averaging it in through the year. I remember reading somewhere that the longer time spent compounding tax-free offsets the risk of a lump sum, and I'm DCA-ing my non-registered investments anyway. So - should I DCA my retirement-earmarked savings into e-funds, then sell them near year-end so that I can move the money into registered e-funds or ETFs? Should I keep the earmarked contributions in cash as an extra buffer? I tell myself the difference is probably insignificant, but I'm sure someone out there has thought about the recommended strategies if you've got the ability to do lump-sum investments at the beginning of the tax year. 

It's like that for many other personal finance decisions. I can find plenty of books teaching people how to get out of debt, but there aren't that many books on what's next - and that's what I'm interested in. My favourites are "Your Money or Your Life" and "I Will Teach You to be Rich". I like the life trade-off calculations from "Your Money or Your Life" and the negotiation tips in "I Will Teach You to be Rich". Any other recommendations?


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

inbetweenworlds said:


> I've been reading about the impact on career/earning potential for women who take time out of the workforce. Scary stuff! But if I manage finances well and maybe even start my own business, it will probably work out.


I am very interested in this topic. I am a woman, I have two kids, I had my kids in my mid-30's and beyond, I took a significant time out of the paid work force when my kids were small, and I have maintained career momentum now that I am back in the workforce full-time (my kids are 6 and 9 now). 

You have to realize that the results you are reading about are all generic. However, that said, in my own experience (by watching my peers and talking to lots of different people) - if you relate to work as a binary thing (you are either working or not, especially in an employee context [as opposed to self-employment]) you are more likely to experience career lag. 

That is, the women I've known who took time out from a fairy static career path and then expected to go back without any long-term impact on their latitude and earnings have mostly been disappointed. Things change. People move on. The person who said to you, "there will always be room for you here!" isn't at the company any more. They are only hiring for people with demonstrated social media experience, and you didn't gain any during your five-year hiatus. The work culture doesn't permit you to make your kids' daycare pickup reliably...and so on. 

The best advice I can give with respect to this topic is to (1) keep your hand in the market in some way and (2) be nimble, nimble, nimble. You are more than likely not going to want to go back to whatever job you have now, because the things that made it a good job for you pre-kids are not the things you will be looking for post-kids (if you intend to have a big career, that is). But the world is full of interesting opportunities, including for women, and especially for women in non-traditional careers. I really believe you can make all of this work, without shortchanging yourself, your children, and your ambitions.


----------



## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey inbetweenworlds,

Sounds like you have a lot of stuff floating around in that head of yours! Not a bad thing, just means you're a thinker....

Well, I'm 37 and I'm still figuring out tons of things. 

Regarding the RRSP, I contribute monthly. Why? Helps me budget.
I don't believe there is a magic contribution formula, since your lump-sump contributions will likely vary over time/over the years.

You're right, hard to find some "what's next for your life" books but once you decide what part of your life you want to understand or get better at, there are no shortages of folks who want to offer their perspective on things...including fine folks in this forum 

What in particular do you want to learn or read about?

http://www.myownadvisor.ca/


----------



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Financial Cents: why do you keep copy-pasting that link with all of your posts? Are you spamming us?


----------



## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

You are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY ahead of where I was at your age. 

I am now 39, and its just in the last couple of years that I have achieved a 65% savings rate and feel like things are coming together... to do so at 27 is mind boggling to me. I just wish I had gotten my financial act together in my 20's instead of my mid-30's. 

To the OP, keep it up!!!!


----------



## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

@ the-royal-mail, no, no spam, its my site.

@ Jon Snow - WOW = 65% savings rate??? You're my idol man!


----------



## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

High savings rate is doable if, like us, you have a small mortgage, no kids, no car payments, and are genetically programmed to be frugal!

Two decent incomes helps too...


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*Jon_Snow*: Hah, reading some of the early-twenties posts here makes me wish I'd started earning money sooner (properly joined the workforce at 24, didn't start a lemonade stand chain as a kid). But wishing "If only..." gets in the way of doing awesome things, so I think of the saying: _Best time to plant a tree? Twenty years ago. Second best time? Today._

*MoneyGal*: Thanks for your insights! I hear you on the need to stay involved. I remember reading about some parents who hire occasional babysitters or find help so that they can spend time working on their business, and there are plenty of parent bloggers and freelancers who squeeze their work into the time when their kids are away at school or are napping. I figure it will be a few years of sleep deprivation and zombie brain, but if I can write and learn as much as possible - and perhaps improve my technical skills by contributing to open source or building small websites - then it'll be easier to talk my way into a position using directly relevant or transferable skills, if I decide to go back to the corporate world.

My current company is pretty family-friendly, and that's one of the reasons why I've stuck with it despite, say, the potential for rapid income growth at smaller companies. I like how I've got lots of role models who have kids (babies, young kids, teenagers - the full range!), who've come back after some time away, who've come back after lots of time away, and so on. But hey, if it turns out to not quite be the best fit afterwards, I'm up for making my own opportunities too.

*Financial Cents*: I use envelopes (well, virtual envelopes) for my routine budgeting, so the money gets set aside anyway. I currently keep it in my high-interest savings account, but I see other people sometimes do the accumulate-in-e-fund-then-cash-out-and-buy-ETF strategy. A few things I'm interested in learning about next:

 Parenting: What are some of the costs I should watch out for? What expenses are worth it, and which ones aren't? 
 Work: What's it like for freelancers in IT? What about entrepreneurs? If I decide to explore that someday, what financial preparations will make it easier? If I don't, how can I hack the corporate world while still enjoying life?
 Life: What are some gotchas I should watch out for? How can I help other people learn how to do what I seem to be doing right?


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

inbetweenworlds said:


> *Jon_Snow*:
> Parenting: What are some of the costs I should watch out for? What expenses are worth it, and which ones aren't?
> Work: What's it like for freelancers in IT? What about entrepreneurs? If I decide to explore that someday, what financial preparations will make it easier? If I don't, how can I hack the corporate world while still enjoying life?
> Life: What are some gotchas I should watch out for? How can I help other people learn how to do what I seem to be doing right?


Welcome to the forum! You're doing great, and sound alot like I did at that time. Though, I was not nearly as disciplined. I'm now 37 with a 2 & 5 year old, and all I can say is no matter how good you are in planning, you will most likely be off. Not to say that you shouldn't try. Just be prepared that kids seldomly follow the plans we have set out. 

For parenting, I think this is something that you and your husband need to discuss first in what kind of values you want to instill, and what is important to the two of you. The stuff for the baby is relatively cheap, you don't NEED much, except diapers, and a car seat you can breastfeed, etc, However, there are many things that are out there to make your life easier. I swore I wouldn't buy into the baby material hype. Then our daughter was born, and had pretty much every short term issue possible, which meant we did not sleep more than 20 minutes straight for the first 7 weeks 5 days. Even then, the sleep was still something we never thought we see again. I remember actually doing a cost benefit analysis of buying a sterlizer for $69.99+tax, vs. how much time it would save me by waiting for water to boil (couldn't sleep with the stove on), and then sterilizing for 10 minutes at 3 in the morning, plus the other 2 times in the day where I needed too. I went and bought it the next day. I digress... I think what items you will find worth it will be dependant on your future baby, and the situation. My advice, though you don't need to buy all the baby gear, if you are in the situation you are debating between sleep or a saving a few dollars... spend the money. For us, our first we extremely challenging, and we just wanted to survive, so we were willing to spend on ANYTHING that would save us time or give us more sleep. For our second, she was relatively easy, and we didn't need more of the stuff. 

Chances are that when you have your child, things will have changed, so try and relax...I know, I hated it when people told me that. Thing changed even between my two in 3 years. 

There are many thing to consider for costs. Childcare this is huge! For us, we went with a nanny, as it was a little more expensive for one but cheaper for two. If you will be pursuing your career, daycares are not quite as flexible, and this was one of the best things we did. My husband is an IT consultant and travels alot, and I used to work insane hours at all time. Having a nanny allowed me the least disruption. Education, for us, we always figured our kids would go to public school. However, we are now finding that the public system may not be the best fit. We are preparing for the worst case of paying for private school if we have too. There's another $8-$14k a year. Then if you send one to private school, you need to send the other. So next year, I will have 1 private school full time, 1 in preschool part time (still private school), plus paying a full time nanny. I'm not saying that we have to do it, but when your child doesn't fit into the standard public school mould, and you do have the capability to pay for private school, it becomes a dilema. Also, we're still putting aside money for the University too. Our kids are well over $3k a month for education and childcare. If you want to add activities, that's a whole other catergory too. 

In terms of career, I definately took a slow down. I estimated that the first child would take me about 3 years more to make up in my career, and 5 or 6 in total. After the second, I figure it's probably going to take me 8-9 years to get where I had planned if I didn't have kids. Part of this is once you announce you're pregnant, no matter how great your employer is, they will not be paying for you to go on expensive training courses right before your due date. Then you're gone for the year, and then when you come back, baby brain does hit, but you have to reprove yourself, and that you're serious about your career. Just in time, for the next pregnancy. When I came back from my second, I realized, I just couldn't be the type of parent I wanted, and work the hours I needed. So I moved into a less demanding job, which is still considered really good, but I'm now further a way from Sr. Management. I have found that though I am still very career driven, my priorities have shifted, and it's so much harder to juggle everything.

I did thought I would take one of my professional certifications or courses when my kids slept. It is very challenging to do. Many think that you can work from home, without childcare. If you're in IT, when they are little, this is next to impossible. They may sleep a few hours when needed, but you are on their schedule not your works. You can't keep a baby quiet during a conference call. When they are older (in school full time), I would think it's possible, but don't count on working from home in a professional job during regular work hours. I did keep up with work when I was on maternity leave. I kept my email, still answered emails, and help. I teach at the college occasionally to keep myself in the game. I made sure that I went and visited the office every couple of months.

I had the greatest boss coming back from my first mat leave, so it was great for me. However, second time around, the ecomony downturn, and my contacts were all gone. When I came back, my job that was promised was pulled the week before. My new boss was not on the same wavelength, and I was working up to 80hours/week. I loved my work, but my kids came first, and I moved. I'm at the point right now, that I working at a very flexible family friendly role, that is allowing me to position myself to branch out and start my own company later on. To do this, for me, we're making sure that our mortgages are paid off, and that I do not NEED to work. At time, I'll have a cushion in savings, and will be able to just leave and go out on my own. I am waiting until my youngest is in school full time, so then I will be able to get them off to school, and be here when they are off, but plan my hours, and make more. 

Don't know the point of my post, as I"m starting to get tired.


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I did a fairly exhaustive baby expense series. It mainly looks at specific baby items. 

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/baby-expenses-series/

It won't do you any good now, but if you get pregnant then check it out.

Bottom line is that new babies need almost nothing. Don't go and outfit the baby room while pregnant - just wait until you need something to buy it.

As for working while the child sleeps - forget it. The ONLY way to get stuff done if you have a baby or child is to have them in daycare. Even hiring someone to look after the kid in your own home is challenging. I think if you do it regularly (ie full time nanny), you can make it work, but if it only happens occasionally, the kid(s) will just want to be with you - even with the high-priced help.


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*Four Pillars*: Thanks for writing and sharing such a great blog series! I'm actually glad to hear that most educational toys seem to be hogwash, and we can skip the birthing classes. The parenting industrial complex is even bigger and scarier than the wedding industrial complex, so it's good to build resistance up front.

It's actually a relief to know that sleep deprivation + uncertain schedule = no expectation of work for the first few years. It reinforces my decision to stick with my current company until we have kids and figure out what the new lifestyle is going to be. It would be much harder to start up a company only to get interrupted. (Or go crazy...)

*Plugging Along*: Totally. There's really no such thing as a long term plan, especially when other people are involved. But the groundwork helps! I like thinking of "fire drills", too. Mentally preparing for different situations helps, as long as it doesn't cross over into anxious worrying. 

I'm all for using money to save time, sanity, and relationships - strategically, of course. My husband warns me that sleep deprivation is no joke. I'm sure we'll both have fuzzy brains when we get there, but I'm hoping his past experience will mean he has a slightly less fuzzy brain, and that this preparation (thank you, Canadian Money Forum and the Internet!) will help me have a slightly less fuzzy brain than I might otherwise have.

In terms of education: School's probably going to be below our hopes, but we don't mind supplementing it with lots of additional education at home. We may even consider afterschooling or home schooling, depending on the kids and our circumstances. We both enjoy teaching kids and learning a lot along the way. I might even take courses in early childhood education. Who knows? We'll see how things work out. 

Career-wise, I've looked at some of the career path options and I'm not entirely sure if I'm going to follow the standard routes.  I don't want to be an executive - too much hassle, not enough balance. Living on a small portion of my income shows me that I don't need to earn megabucks. If anything, I'd probably be interested in scaling my work back a little bit - more flexible time even if it means slightly less money. Maybe more independence. Perhaps my priorities will change once we have kids!

It sounds like you're where I want to be in a few years. =) Good luck, and thank you for sharing your insights!

--

So I guess it _might_ be a focus on kids for a couple of years, with _something_ to help me stay intellectually stimulated and professionally relevant. I don't want to end up with all of my conversations being about kids! I think the financial cushion we've been putting together will really pay off - enough to be able to pay for time-saving and sanity-saving devices, avoid getting stressed out by sleep deprivation and work pressures, and get us to the probably calmer shores of school-age childhood.

It's a little strange having this big fuzzy cloud on the horizon (at least it's cumulus, not cumulonimbus!). I can feel the temptation to disengage from work, but I fight it by focusing on still doing the best work I can. I save and invest, but have a harder time spending on things I'm not sure I'll be able to use for long - a new bicycle? new clothes? It's living in between the present and the future, which is usually not a good place to be. Once we get this going, though, things will be clearer and easier to decide.

-- 

In other news: I stopped by Value Village today and refreshed my spring/summer wardrobe with a number of gently-used pieces for $44.01. Yay second-hand stores! I can't stand shopping for clothes in Sears, The Bay, or Eaton Centre knowing that I could probably pick up something similar second-hand. I'd like to make more clothes myself, too, but I'm happy to pick up bargains that cost less than the fabric or notions I'd need to make it myself. I'm slightly annoyed by the thought of buying clothes that I might wear for a couple of seasons, but if I do end up changing sizes afterwards, well, there's always donations or the sewing machine. At $4.99-$9.99 an item, my cost-per-wear will be acceptably low.


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

inbetweenworlds said:


> *Four Pillars*: Thanks for writing and sharing such a great blog series! I'm actually glad to hear that most educational toys seem to be hogwash, and we can skip the birthing classes. The parenting industrial complex is even bigger and scarier than the wedding industrial complex, so it's good to build resistance up front.
> 
> It's actually a relief to know that sleep deprivation + uncertain schedule = no expectation of work for the first few years. It reinforces my decision to stick with my current company until we have kids and figure out what the new lifestyle is going to be. It would be much harder to start up a company only to get interrupted. (Or go crazy...)


Thank you.

This probably doesn't apply to you, but anyone who is planning babies should stick with working for "the man", at least until the babies are all out. The value of the EI payments for one or more mat leaves can't be underestimated. And if the company provides any kind of topup, the total benefits are huge.

My wife quit her job about 6 months before getting pregnant - we ended up having 2 kids, 20 months apart. Had she stuck it out just a bit longer, she could have gotten 100 months of EI and 8 months of topup. 

Oh well...


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> Had she stuck it out just a bit longer, she could have gotten 100 months of EI and 8 months of topup.


Not that you've added it up. 

I did two completely self-funded mat leaves (of varying lengths) because I was self-employed for many years before having kids. 

I personally think the whole sleep deprivation thing is overplayed, but everyone's experience is different. I did the CFP coursework and wrote the exam with an infant and a three-year-old and no daycare (I started the courses while pregnant with kid no. 2 and finished them while she was an infant). That's different than expecting to work, though - my deadlines were essentially my own.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I agree about the mat leave being a huge benefit. My company also had the top up, so that's another reason I suck around there. I do believe now, that you can get Maternity leave if you are self employed, if you choose to pay the premiums. I'm not a 100% sure, as I think that was a change after we had ours.

For the sleep deprivation, I do think it's child by child thing, but it's something not to underestimate. I think you plan for the worst, and hope for the best. We were quite serious about not having another child because we were so sleep deprived. It got to the point that I had to pull over on a road, take a nap for a few minutes, just to drive to the dr's. For the second, she slept almost right from the beginning so, I could see if I had two of her, I could have finished my courses.


----------



## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

We had two children, no one gave us a subsidy nor did we expect it, nor did we hand them over to someone else to raise.

I know, I'm a dinosaur, things are differant today, not sure they are better???.

Children today seem to relate more to their circle of friends than they do to their family, may be as a result of being raised in an endless string of day care centres by a revolving door of strangers.???


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*I'm Howard*: Thumbing our noses at the Joneses helps us keep our expenses down, which means we're more likely to avoid the financial pressures that drive many parents to work. The parental top-ups and EI benefits are nice, but fortunately not essential - we wouldn't plan for kids if those subsidies were essential to our financial well-being.

*Plugging Along, Four Pillars*: Yeah, I checked it out, and work's pretty decent about the parental top-up. Like the EI, there's a minimum work requirement, so if we decide to have two kids right next to each other (could be insane!), I probably won't get the benefits for the second child. That's okay. Anyway, we'll see how things work out. I'll be sure to watch out for those taxes, too!

*MoneyGal*: Happy to hear that, and I hope to have similar experiences to share in a few years. =) Besides, it might be an excellent opportunity to find parenting needs and maybe create things that make life easier. There are plenty of mompreneurs! So I've been investing some pre-parenting time into developing skills like writing and sewing, and seeing what else I can do up front to save time down the road...


----------



## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Very OT: I think lots of adults have poor sleep hygiene, and the broken sleep you get with parenting - when piled on top of poor habits - leads to really suboptimal outcomes (I am *not* referring to anyone in this thread, just speaking generically). 

Both my husband and I were self-employed when our kids were babies, so between the two of us we were able to get sufficient sleep to remain rested, just not all in one go. So if one of us had had a long night of broken sleep, they could generally nap during the day/when the baby or baby + toddler were napping, and then stay up late or get up early or whatever. I did all my CFP coursework studying and exam prep by rigorously getting up at 5 a.m., giving me two solid hours every morning before anyone else was up. 

Anyways! This is just meant to be a post like, you MIGHT be able to "get stuff done" while you have young kids. Don't assume that you will be able to, just don't close the door on it. And just like with investing and financial planning writ large, try to look beyond the conventional answers to find things that work for you, despite any lack of agreement you might get from the wider world.


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*June update*

The market correction means it's going to take a little longer to reach one of my savings milestones. That's okay. I've got time. I'm just going to keep plugging away at investing. If the market goes sideways for the next decade, well, at least I'm trying. =)

We're halfway through the year and I've managed to up my savings rate to 75% for the year. The largest chunks were:
- groceries/house expenses 
- a flight to Europe, which I saved up for in advance - we have another big trip coming up this year, so I'm saving up for that one too
- wedding gifts

So far this year:
~$33,000 net income
~$27,000 contributed to non-registered investments and TFSA (including some GICs that matured and were shifted into investments, because I changed my mind about having so much in GICs)
~$13,500 contributed to registered investments - that's it for the year, I think
~$8,000 expenses

I just got promoted into a higher job category at work, so I'm looking forward to banking the (probably small) increase in pay.

Slowly but (mostly) surely!


----------



## inbetweenworlds (May 13, 2011)

*2011 year-end update*

Two major trips, a new laptop, and miscellaneous expenses later, we've survived the ups and downs of 2011. The stock market wobbles quite a bit, but we're in it for the long run. Who knows, maybe early retirement is even in the horizon. It's discouraging seeing growth end up negative, but the market's probably going to recover someday. I can wait. I'm still 27, so I've got a long way to go.

My husband handles most of the household expenses, which is how I manage to save so much. Numbers below are only for my income/expenses.

Net income for 2011: $69,956.78 (including interests and dividends)
Total expenses: $19,921.23
Total savings: $50,035.55
Savings rate: 72%

Year end balance: 2010 => 2011
Cash: $13,931 => $28,203
Stocks: $54,645 => $79,805
Bonds: $382 => $5,905
Retirement: $46,139 => $59,410
GICs: $48,022 => $31,088
Net worth: $163,119 => $204,431

Net worth growth: $41,312
which is less than what I put in, but you take the crunchy with the smooth when it comes to the market...

Investment mix across RRSPs, TFSAs, and non-registered: 66% TSX index fund, 13% US equity index fund, 11% international equity index fund, 10% bond index funds.

Goals for next year: 

 Spend even less
 Learn how to earn money on the side
 Max out TFSA and RRSP again
 Nudge my bond allocation upwards


----------

