# Condo vs duplex



## Mtlcouple (Jun 19, 2012)

What are your views of the rental future of older style duplexes in Montreal or Toronto?
More specifically, they are building condos at such a rapid pace, in these cities that I wonder how relevant my old duplexes will be in 20 years. 
If someone has the choice to live in a quiet concrete box with a pool on top of the building versus a squeaky old building, albeit with more square footage, what will they chose?


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Although some may prefer to rent or buy a newer condo rather than an old apartement, you'll have to understand that it comes with a premium. In Montreal for example, a 2 bedroom apt may rent for $700-$800 per month where a similar sized condo will be over $1200. So you have a strong market for both. Its the same reason why people buy used cars vs new.

As an RE investor, you're making more money on a multi-unit - more doors, more income. You might argue that repair costs may be high on an older building but the income is also higher which offsets that. Maintenance costs are required for either or. And don't forget the premium on the condo which you pay through monthly condo fees.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I don't really buy the "premium" cost arguements, the condo fees cover maintenance to the property, and theoretically you get better pricing from volume discounts.

That being said, the first thing to look at is the price. All things being equal. If probably buy a duplex over a condo, as you get land as well...something that can later be sold to a developer who wants to tear it down to build condos for example. With a condo, all you get is your cubicle...

I agree that, from a renter's perspective, there will always be demand for both. Most of my renter's long for having a small yard and a place all to themselves...and are willing to pay a premium for that. It's the younger generation who seem to want the "pool and view"... When you get older you realize that you don't really use the facilities unless you force yourself to because your time is used up elsewhere...especially when you have kids.

Personally, I'd go for land and control over an entire place if all things were equal...but I doubt all things are equal in this economy, so I'd look at the numbers and see which makes better cash flow.


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## Mtlcouple (Jun 19, 2012)

Some good points. 
Thanks for the replies.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm not familiar with the Montreal/Toronto markets but I can speak to the debate here (in Calgary). Condos go for less money because you have the headaches that go along with them. A lot of condos here are mismanaged which results in special assessments, increasing condo fees, etc.

I own a condo and have been lucky so far but some others haven't. I know a guy who got a special assessment in his building (4 years old) for $40k. He doesn't have $40k in his pocket at the moment to pay it and not sure what he will do.

I have another friend who owns a duplex that he rents out. The duplex has two sides, both with a separate entrance, yard, garage etc. While he does have to coordinate with the other half of the building to get common areas fixed (ie.roof) he doesn't have to worry about any huge special assessments or condo fees. Sure, he is more hands on with his investment because he has to do the work and maintenance on the property but he actually enjoys it.

As an investment I think here a duplex would win out every time. As a personal residence I would still prefer a duplex because condo boards can get messy and have 3,000 rules the owners need to follow. Also, as someone else mentioned, with a duplex you get the land. The land is key for personal enjoyment (in my opinion) as well as investment because I think the value in real estate is in the land (well, here at least).


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I would prefer the non condo property, simply for the fact that you get control over your property.


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## gt_23 (Jan 18, 2014)

Mtlcouple said:


> What are your views of the rental future of older style duplexes in Montreal or Toronto?
> More specifically, they are building condos at such a rapid pace, in these cities that I wonder how relevant my old duplexes will be in 20 years.
> If someone has the choice to live in a quiet concrete box with a pool on top of the building versus a squeaky old building, albeit with more square footage, what will they chose?


Condo rentals in Toronto are >$1800 per month, plus util.

The duplex and condo supply serve totally different markets, and IMO there is more risk to deterioration of the condo rental market than old-style apartments, particularly in Ontario, which continues to head down the path of economic incompetence.

The reported vacancy rate is also like 2%, so unless your apartments are in the 5th-percentile or less of all slums in the City, you should be fine for quite a while.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We are having this same discussion now about potentially buying a duplex in Toronto vs a condo.I think the duplex will probably hold the value better although you are putting out much more money to purchase it.I have not spent much more than 2-3 hours looking at prices of condos ,my first observations is the new condos are higher in price than older condos ,
Older buildings seem to have less amenities which seems to equate to a lower monthly maintenance fee.You also seem to get a larger unit in the older buildings ,since when is 524sq ft consider spacious?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

In our city, a normal apartment style 1 bedroom condos are available for $110,000. 

A semi-detached or duplex in the same area would cost $170,000.

More expensive are single family home condos......bungalows attached by a set of garages between each unit. They cost $250,000 and up.

In between are the new 3 story walkup condos.....all brick, normal windows, unique interiors. They cost about $200,000 and up.

It appears to depend on individual affordability and the pecking order for condos seems to be.......

Bungalow condos.... townhouse condos......all brick walk up apartment condos..... luxury apartment condos.......normal apartment condos.......in that order.

I have been in all kinds of buildings, from my delivery business days........and normal apartment condos are just too noisy for me.

Luxury condos are much quieter, wider hallways, no noise or smells emanating from units. They are the least I would consider.

And others of course, prefer to rent regardless..........and all of the above are available as rentals at correlated prices.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

marina628 said:


> Older buildings seem to have less amenities which seems to equate to a lower monthly maintenance fee.You also seem to get a larger unit in the older buildings ,since when is 524sq ft consider spacious?


524sq feet is basically a very large closet. 20 ft x 25 feet = 500sq feet, divide that up into a bedroom10x10 bedroom and a sitting/kitchette .
It's like living in a chicken coop with a bunch of chickens above and below you.:biggrin:

For that, you also have the privilege of paying property taxes and maintenance fees?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is a small size........but it is amazing what can be done with engineering these days.

There are some examples of small apartments condos that transform completely with the push of a few buttons.

They just aren't worth the current cost in some cities...........is my belief.

Especially when adding in the cost of transforming the apartment.


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## Frank_Swinson (Oct 18, 2014)

Useful Thread.


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