# brake repairs - dealer or other??



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

looks like i need to get original brakes replaced on my 2016 Corolla.
The quoted price at the dealership is approx. $100 more than the prices at a couple of what I consider 'reputable' independent places. ($550 range vs $450 range, all-in). Canadian Tire also quoted at the $550 level...
Is it worth it to stick with the Dealership....or save 100 bucks...?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

jargey3000 said:


> looks like i need to get original brakes replaced on my 2016 Corolla.
> The quoted price at the dealership is approx. $100 more than the prices at a couple of what I consider 'reputable' independent places. ($550 range vs $450 range, all-in). Canadian Tire also quoted at the $550 level...
> Is it worth it to stick with the Dealership....or save 100 bucks...?


Brakes are easy.
I'd just go to the reputable place.

I generally have a good opinion of dealers, but I know that Chrysler has screwed me and blatantly lied.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

When I was a younger/poorer soul it was a job I used to do in my driveway . Always a pal on call to be able to hop off to CTC to buy bits as the old ones sometimes are found more bad than you thought as you get in a bit deeper. 

The savings on the first done brake job paid for the four used axle stands and floor jack that made it possible. I used to loan them to other pals for the cost of a mickie of whiskey, so over time they actually made me a bit of other 'income' .

But a messy job, so now I take cars needing brakes or exhaust system or tires/align or battery to an indie shop. Rarely do I go to the dealer- brakes is not such a case.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Compare the quality of the parts when looking at the quote.

For $100 extra, I would get the work done at the dealer.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> Compare the quality of the parts when looking at the quote.
> 
> For $100 extra, I would get the work done at the dealer.


Dealers don't use better parts.. at best they charge more for the exact same parts from the exact same factory only rebadged

If you want better quality brake parts you can get them cheaper online than what a dealer shills


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I worked in the GM warehouse and there is a big difference between OEM parts and other suppliers.

There is a black market for selling "fake" OEM automotive parts.

True, you can upgrade the parts even further from a trusted after market automotive company, but it will cost more for the high performance parts.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I would go to a good independent garage if you know one you can trust. Tell them if there is a choice you want the more expensive parts and will pay extra. The difference is small, and you may find reputable shops never use the real cheap parts anyway.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> I worked in the GM warehouse and there is a big difference between OEM parts and other suppliers.
> 
> There is a black market for selling "fake" OEM automotive parts.


Depends what parts we are talking about

When it comes to brakes.. OEM sources those from the same factories/brands and rebrands them. You can get better brake parts from Rok Auto etc for half the cost of OEM from a dealer

Dealers make their money on parts and service


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

jargey3000, quit messing around. Take the car to the dealer and get original equipment and you're done for 5 years.

ltr


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## milhouse (Nov 16, 2016)

If you have been constantly taking your car to the dealership, there might be some limited value just getting the work done there, particularly since it's only $100 more. They _might_ be more inclined to go to bat for you with Toyota if you run into an issue out of warranty. 

+1 that brakes aren't complex job so going to a _reputable_ independent shop should be ok too. 

Personally, I've had multiple bad experiences with Canadian Tire years ago so I hold a grudge. But YMMV of course.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> *Dealers don't use better parts.*. at best they charge more for the exact same parts from the exact same factory only rebadged


I don't see how you can make such a statement . Dealers do use better parts than some independent or on-line offerings. Sure, you can likely buy the same parts, but it is next to impossible to know who the manufacturer sources their parts from. So how would you know that what you bought for a lower price was identical? You can't.

When it comes to brake pads and rotors, there is a huge range of qualities available. Some of it really bad. Knowledgeable owners learn which brands to buy and which ones to avoid. Shops trying to be competitive or not knowing better may use the cheap stuff. Some of the stuff that CTC sells for brakes is just Chinese junk. I wouldn't use their stuff, especially the rotors. 

I would suggest checking Toyota forums and find out what other owners are using. Do a web search for reviews. Then with newfound knowledge, ask the indy shops what make of pads and rotors they would put on. Or just get the dealer to do it. Most of the $100 would likely be for a higher labour charge. But you would get the proper parts plus a guaranteed reliable job. I hardly ever have dealer work on my cars, but I do often buy parts from them.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

agent99 said:


> I don't see how you can make such a statement . Dealers do use better parts than some independent or on-line offerings. Sure, you can likely buy the same parts, but it is next to impossible to know who the manufacturer sources their parts from. So how would you know that what you bought for a lower price was identical? You can't.
> 
> When it comes to brake pads and rotors, there is a huge range of qualities available. Some of it really bad. Knowledgeable owners learn which brands to buy and which ones to avoid. Shops trying to be competitive or not knowing better may use the cheap stuff. Some of the stuff that CTC sells for brakes is just Chinese junk. I wouldn't use their stuff, especially the rotors.
> 
> I would suggest checking Toyota forums and find out what other owners are using. Do a web search for reviews. Then with newfound knowledge, ask the indy shops what make of pads and rotors they would put on. Or just get the dealer to do it. Most of the $100 would likely be for a higher labour charge. But you would get the proper parts plus a guaranteed reliable job. I hardly ever have dealer work on my cars, but I do often buy parts from them.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The shop I use specializes in Toyota. He uses Toyota parts for brake pads. He says there is a difference. 

One thing for certain....I would never, ever have automobile work done by CT.

Lots of lowballers in the business. You may end up needing rotors and renewing your brake fluid.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

ian said:


> The shop I use specializes in Toyota. He uses Toyota parts for brake pads. He says there is a difference.


Toyota doesn't make brake pads or rotors. They might make the caliper but I really doubt it

You could buy the exact same thing from the brand that makes them for Toyota. You could also buy lower or better quality with some research



agent99 said:


> Sure, you can likely buy the same parts, but it is next to impossible to know who the manufacturer sources their parts from. So how would you know that what you bought for a lower price was identical? You can't.


This is why we need blockchain tech for supply management and transparency

I buy my parts from reputable brands online. I used to race and swap brake parts weekly. I would notice immediately if they were fake or poor quality. Brakes and tires are pushed to the limit on the track

Whenever dealers try to sell me brake parts I ask them why they cost more than X and they usually smirk or joke about unicorn tears etc. They know


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## Retiredguy (Jul 24, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> looks like i need to get original brakes replaced on my 2016 Corolla.
> The quoted price at the dealership is approx. $100 more than the prices at a couple of what I consider 'reputable' independent places. ($550 range vs $450 range, all-in). Canadian Tire also quoted at the $550 level...
> Is it worth it to stick with the Dealership....or save 100 bucks...?


I had never done brakes before. Last year my friend and I did his front and rear brake pads and roters on his 07 Sonata. Very easy - Youtube. All in was 200.00, ceramic pads, clips, roters. Also did my front pads, clips and rotors on my 07 Sante Fe. Again very easy. Mine were a little more $140 all in. Everything ordered via Amazon. 

Rotors are so inexpensive now no one turns them.

When you say all in what does that include? Ceramic brake pads front and rear are about $90.00 with new clips. Depending on mileage you don.t need rotors. If pads and rotors, time wise, a shop, I would say less than 2 hours. I used to think a brake job was complex but their actually ridiculously easy. Even if you go to a shop try doing some youtube searching using your car year and there will likely be a video on what they're going to do so you'll be a better informed consumer.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

If you replace pads before they are completely worn out you don't need to change the rotors. If the rotors are warped, rutted or scored you need new ones. If it is only pads don't forget to lubricate the pins or sliding parts of the caliper and inspect the calipers for cracked or torn boots. Since your car is 5 years old it may need more than just pads. Check your owner's manual and see if the fluid needs to be changed, if you do this as necessary your calipers should never wear out or freeze up.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Retiredguy said:


> I had never done brakes before. Last year my friend and I did his front and rear brake pads and roters on his 07 Sonata. Very easy - Youtube. All in was 200.00, ceramic pads, clips, roters. Also did my front pads, clips and rotors on my 07 Sante Fe. Again very easy. Mine were a little more $140 all in. Everything ordered via Amazon.


my buddy & I would do this ( with no youtube!) back in the early 70's! he knew what he was doing...i just "helped".... too old now, retiredguy...😞


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> Is it worth it to stick with the Dealership....or save 100 bucks...?


For you ... dealership. I say this as "most" dealerships will not use low end parts while other shops might.

If you're willing to call back, get their labour cost and an exact parts list (inc. part #'s) from the others then you can actually start to compare.

Also, how do you know you need brake work done?


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> my buddy & I would do this ( with no youtube!) back in the early 70's! he knew what he was doing...i just "helped".... too old now, retiredguy...😞


Jargey - Get them done by the dealer or at least at a shop that will use Toyota parts. 

Funnily enough, I was recently at our local shop where I was having a starter installed (It was an ACDelco - arrived dead - had to be returned). While there, a guy came in with a box of parts from the Toyota dealer. I guess the local shop uses OE parts 

Retired for 18 years, but I still do my own brakes (and most other jobs). Brakes are important - doing 1 brake job doesn't make someone an expert! The shops should be. Ask them about bedding in the brakes properly when you get car back - not done the same for all pad brands and some shops don't do it for you.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> You could buy the exact same thing from the brand that makes them for Toyota.


Ok, but what brand is that??



m3s said:


> I buy my parts from reputable brands online.


I do too, but that does not always work. 

Many brands are now part of global conglomerates. I recently bought an idler bushing kit made by a Mercedes OEM supplier (Lemfoerder). I installed it, but found that it messed up my steering - would not self-center. Took it apart and measured - made to incorrect dimensions. Replaced with new part from dealer and problem solved. That part was marked as "Lemfoerder Aftermarket" and Made in China. Can't trust even previously reliable brand names.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

agent99 said:


> Ok, but what brand is that??


I usually google to get an idea. On the topic of brakes there's only a few that supply all OEM brake parts and a few more performance brands (the rest are probably junk)



agent99 said:


> Many brands are now part of global conglomerates. I recently bought an idler bushing kit made by a Mercedes OEM supplier (Lemfoerder). I installed it, but found that it messed up my steering - would not self-center.


Yea I've had similar issues with random parts

Supply chain is a mess nowadays with all kinds of scams. Time for a blockchain to authenticate the supply chain (Walmart and others are already on it)


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> Supply chain is a mess nowadays with all kinds of scams. Time for a blockchain to authenticate the supply chain (Walmart and others are already on it)


I understand timing chains, tire chains, anchor chains, bike chains etc, but have no clue about Block chains or how they work. At 81, I probably never will! No Blockchain or Cannabis stocks for me


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## martik777 (Jun 25, 2014)

When I was working, I'd come home early, maybe 16:30 to do my front brakes, was all done and cleaned up for dinner by 18:00. Never spent more than $20. Even today, pads are ~ $20CAD at Rockauto, probably 3x-5x that amount in Canada. Now I drive an EV, no visible wear in 3 years, brakes should last the life of the car.

But if you don't know what you are doing go to a reputable shop (NOT CT!)


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Also, how do you know you need brake work done?


well, at 5 years & 42000 km, i figure its getting time... plus i had them checked when i had winter tires installed in the fall, they used that little green/yellow/red measuring gadget. I was in the yellow zone then. I forget the 16ths measurement at the time ,,, but figured i should think about replacing come the spring..


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> well, at 5 years & 42000 km, i figure its getting time... plus i had them checked when i had winter tires installed in the fall, they used that little green/yellow/red measuring gadget. I was in the yellow zone then. I forget the 16ths measurement at the time ,,, but figured i should think about replacing come the spring..


At only ~8000 kms a year I'd just wait for spring and see what the measurement is then, compare to the last one you just got. BTW, forget about their color coded gadget, use the actual measurement. No sense changing them if they are not worn out, you're just wasting money.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I do whatever i can myself but as I used to own a repair shop, as well as a licensed tech for many years, I have a background of mechanical skills. I do take vehicles in for routine oil changes to avoid having to deal with the disposal etc. I have had a couple of scary estimates in the past from dealers and independent that I have questioned. The one shop just looked at me when I asked why they wanted to replace rotors and calipers because pads were getting low. I bought quality parts from a distributor and just did it myself. Contrary to what many people think, the manufacturers do not make their own brake parts and in fact there are many superior quality products available. Just because it's OE quality doesn't always mean better, although OE is probably minimum you should buy. And if you're paying labour to have the job done, it costs the same to install good quality products that will last as it does to install cheaper, lower quality that will wear out sooner.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

agent99 said:


> I understand timing chains, tire chains, anchor chains, bike chains etc, but have no clue about Block chains or how they work. At 81, I probably never will! No Blockchain or Cannabis stocks for me


Block chain has something to do with Bitcoin. I think it is a chain made out of coins. I don't get it either, maybe cannabis would help. (jk)


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Block chain has something to do with Bitcoin. I think it is a chain made out of coins. I don't get it either, maybe cannabis would help. (jk)


I think it has something to do with eliminating need for banks, insurers, brokerage etc for financial transactions. 

What we really need is a blockchain that would eliminate the need for auto dealerships, repair shops and Crappy Tire.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Blockchain solves double-spending



agent99 said:


> Sure, you can likely buy the same parts, but it is next to impossible to know who the manufacturer sources their parts from. So how would you know that what you bought for a lower price was identical? You can't.


It also happens to solve the problem of counterfeits and authenticity of supply chains. Ie Walmart's use of blockchain


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

I agree with Sags, l_t_r, agent,... et. al. Go with the dealer.

I've had a few Camrys over the years and typically get over 200k on the original factory brakes and dealership replacement brakes. (Yes, 200k. It's all about driving smart; anticipating things like a stale green light and slowing down in advance)

I had an experience once with a "discount" brake shop and only got about 1/3 or about 70k on crap parts. Never again, I get all my servicing done at the Toyota dealer.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

m3s said:


> Blockchain solves double-spending
> 
> 
> 
> It also happens to solve the problem of counterfeits and authenticity of supply chains. Ie Walmart's use of blockchain


But there was a "double spend" not long ago.

One transaction inputted twice went on separate forks of the blockchain. Different amounts.......same bitcoin spend.

It was corrected as miners rejected one of the transactions, strangely the first transaction with a higher fee attached, and the situation was resolved.

But the fact is that it DID happen and revealed that miner's choice of verifying transactions with higher fees first creates delays for lower transactions.

Satoshi warned this could happen in his white papers and advised that transactions should have at least 6 verifications.

Allthough eventually resolved, the rejection of the second transaction would have left the receiver with a payment that disappeared from their account.

Waiting for transactions to be verified by 6 miners, based on a "highest fee" protocol makes the blockchain a poor means of transacting business.









Responding to Antonopoulos on the BTC double-spend analysis


BitMex Research’s ForkMonitor recently detected a split in the BTC chain, where the temporarily leading chain was re-org’d, and therefore 1 block was orphaned.




coingeek.com


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Secondary, I don't believe that when 4 large mining pools control more than 50% of the hashrate, that blockchain can claim to be decentralized anymore.

There is more centralization in the blockchain than in the global banking world.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

That's exactly how blockchains are supposed to work @sags



sags said:


> Secondary, I don't believe that when 4 large mining pools control more than 50% of the hashrate, that blockchain can claim to be decentralized anymore.


Yea I'm not a fan of BTC or mining. This has very little to do with the utility of a blockchain - you are confusing the 2 as being the same


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

So what is the best crypto alternative ?

Secure, fast, cheap............


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> So what is the best crypto alternative ?
> 
> Secure, fast, cheap............


Depends entirely what you want to use it for. There will be as many as there are companies for different uses

My vote is on cardano but it's still launching


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

dotnet_nerd said:


> I agree with Sags, l_t_r, agent,... et. al. Go with the dealer.
> 
> I've had a few Camrys over the years and typically get over 200k on the original factory brakes and dealership replacement brakes. (Yes, 200k. It's all about driving smart; anticipating things like a stale green light and slowing down in advance)
> 
> I had an experience once with a "discount" brake shop and only got about 1/3 or about 70k on crap parts. Never again, I get all my servicing done at the Toyota dealer.


I, too, consider myself a "smart driver" dot , doing as you say & keeping that green "eco" light on to conserve gas too, etc. lol. ( in the old days, i'd "gear down" whenever i could...to save the brakes lol)
But, 200k? that must be mostly, or all, "hiway" driving?
As mentioned, I'm at about 42k on orig. brakes....(mostly all "city" driving....but still) I've got a soft touch, on the brake pedal.
I wonder if the guys who inspected my brakes were, shall we say, being "accurate"?
I'm not really keen to go hauling a wheel off, to have a look myself.


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## dotnet_nerd (Jul 1, 2009)

Yes, I average about 200k. That's mostly highway of course. But that's with factory parts, they make a huge difference.

If pads are too soft, they wear too fast. You can spot cheap brake pads, the rims will be dirty with brake dust.
Too hard and they wear down the rotors too quickly.

Another reason to go factory, they're designed for the vehicle and matched to the rim metallurgy

(My apologies for interrupting this cryptocurrency thread with brake repair mumbo jumbo)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Factory is a good option if you don't want the hassle of googling what to buy. But that would take even less time than waiting to be spoon fed here

The factory buys brake parts from the company who makes brake parts, and adds a premium for the convenience and their cut. Toyota doesn't make brake parts.

You can better better brake pads for cheaper online. You could also buy worse if you don't take the few mins to google


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

dotnet_nerd said:


> Yes, I average about 200k. That's mostly highway of course. But that's with factory parts, they make a huge difference.
> 
> If pads are too soft, they wear too fast. You can spot cheap brake pads, the rims will be dirty with brake dust.
> Too hard and they wear down the rotors too quickly.
> ...


Yep, I have a 2008 Toyota Rav 4 - a good mix of hwy and city driving. The first time I had any brake work done was over 200,000 Km. Now at 268,000 km - still on the original muffler, but the third windshield.

The only big service was 200K when they replaced the spark plugs - some light bulbs started to burn out around that time but some are still original. Other than that, mostly oil changes every 10-12K with synthetic.

Won't hesitate to get another Toyota. Oil Changes are a better price through my dealer than through the local Minute Lube so I don't mind doing the big work at the dealer - the OEM stuff seems to last.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

edit


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

would any of youse guys be 'suspicious' that I was told by garage that I getting close to needing brakes replaced at "only" 42K? (given that I AM soft on the pedal, but also that it IS virtually all city driving)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Brakes depend entirely on how/where you drive. Mileage is not an indicator at all

Brakes will last forever on the highway where you are covering miles at speed without stopping vs in the city where you brake every mile..

I can go through a set of pads in a weekend on the track. I also go through pads fast off roading from mud etc. YMMV


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> would any of youse guys be 'suspicious' that I was told by garage that I getting close to needing brakes replaced at "only" 42K? (given that I AM soft on the pedal, but also that it IS virtually all city driving)


No - 42k is a long time between brake pad/rotor replacements. Rear pads/rotors don't wear as fast, but certainly front could need replacement. If pads are down to 1/4", replace soon. 1/8" go right now!

You can check yourself (video link below) but you should trust the mechanics. If not go have them checked again. Places like Midas may even do it free. *Many places will do a safety inspection incl brakes during a regular service or wheel rotation.*


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> would any of youse guys be 'suspicious' that I was told by garage that I getting close to needing brakes replaced at "only" 42K? (given that I AM soft on the pedal, but also that it IS virtually all city driving)


Why not just get them checked when you get your winter tires taken off?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Why not just get them checked when you get your winter tires taken off?


👍👍👍


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