# Early Renewal Meeting



## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Bank called me up, they want to talk early renewal. I called around a bit and since my mortgage isn't up for six months, unless I want to break my mortgage and pay the fee, I can't renew elsewhere. Most places I talked to didn't even want to discuss a renewal until the 90 day mark.

Any advice going in? What can I expect? Anybody have any luck getting a bank to match a rate found online at places like ratehub or ratespy?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Interesting...which bank is this if I may ask.
Yes, 90 day is more common for early renewal of a mortgage.

Could it be that they are sensing lower fixed rates coming 6 months down the road, and want to lock you into a higher rate right now?

That would mean they are expecting bond yields to be lower (if you are on a fixed rate), or a rate cut from the BOC (if you are on a variable rate).

Or, maybe, they are just being nice


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Don't let them shake you down for a 'renewal admin' fee. 

In our experience, they will always drop it if you object. Just say no.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Scotia Bank. After an blend and extend we're actually 6.5 years into this mortgage.


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## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

With rates creeping up, I guess it's to the advantage of lenders to market renewals to their clients now under the guise of 'renew now at the available rates because they're going up and you better act now'. The way I look at it is if you voluntarily take a higher rate now, you'd be better off holding off and taking the risk of a higher rate later. 

What I've done in the past when rates were increasing is had them start the paperwork for the renewal to lock in a rate, with it not taking effect until a month or two down the road. In some cases a better rate became available during that period and I was able to avail of it.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Scotiabank always had 6 months early renewal option. I've done 3. I chose one of their special rates, listed on their website. You will not be able to get broker rates unless you switch lenders at rental time.


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

NEVER take the offer they give you up front. There is almost always a better deal to be had. Most lenders count on the fact that a certain % of borrowers will just sign their renewal offer, since it is ultra low-hassle compared to moving the mortgage, so it is typical to make a b.s. posted-rate offer first.

ABSOLUTELY walk in with a list of rates you found elsewhere, and ask them to match. If they don't, then you walk and say that you will think about it, but need to explore your options. 

Renewal departments are not clueless...they know precisely what is out there, so the rep should just be straight with you and advise right away or within a day if a rate can be matched.

There should NEVER be a fee to renew, btw. 

Even if they simply match, it is good for you, since you would need to re-qualify with another lender if you move the mortgage.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Jungle said:


> Scotiabank always had 6 months early renewal option. I've done 3. I chose one of their special rates, listed on their website. You will not be able to get broker rates unless you switch lenders at rental time.


Not true. I walked in to renew at my lender (big bank) with the broker rates and a list of their lenders and had it matched with 5 mins work. It helped to be dealing with a rep that we've known for a few years, but it wasn't a hassle at all.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

We did the same at CIBC. We always got a quarter point better, sometimes as much as a half. 

I was later told by someone that the mortgage officer had the authority to give up a quarter point. He/she had to phone downtown for rest but if the bank was under their mortgage quota there would be no issue with getting it.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Total lunchbag letdown. I walk in. She offers 2.7 on a variable. (same as website) I say: I can get at least 2.5% any day of the week through an online broker.

She says there isn't anything she can do, but she could offer me a travel american express and wave the annual fee. (Where did that come from?)

I say nope. Call me when you can do better.

And I left. 5 minute meeting. Tops.


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

well, at least they didn't waste your time...

now go to a decent broker, and tell them your maturity date - they will get you whatever is available in the market, and can lock-in a rate with a lender a certain period of time before maturity; you just can't actually move the mortgage until maturity, to avoid a penalty, but most lenders offer a rate guarantee period (just not as long as for a purchase).

a mortgage transfer should not cost you a dime, as most lenders pick up the costs to transfer-in a mortgage 'as is'. You only pay fees (legal, appraisal, etc) if you are refinancing (i.e. accessing more funds or rewriting a mortgage).

btw, NEVER pay a broker any sort of brokerage fee - they are ALWAYS compensated directly by the lender for sourcing them new business, but some less-than-reputable brokers charge a fee that is 100% profit ON TOP of what the lender pays them.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Maybe Later said:


> Not true. I walked in to renew at my lender (big bank) with the broker rates and a list of their lenders and had it matched with 5 mins work. It helped to be dealing with a rep that we've known for a few years, but it wasn't a hassle at all.


Well I tried that and Scotia and they said no. It appears Scotia said no to the OP as well. 

Maybe your lender was different, better, able to match, I don't doubt it.


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## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

I've noticed that Scotia have some of the lowest rates around right now. I'm in process of renewing and it seems the only rate with some flexibilty is their variable rate...branch tells me I can get .2% off posted, which would put me at 2.5% (.5% below prime).


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## chantl01 (Mar 17, 2011)

I had an early renewal offer (6 months out) from Scotiabank earlier this year which wasn't competitive so I ignored it. Two months later they sent me a much better early renewal offer, which I shopped around and wasn't able to beat so I took it. Sometimes it pays to just be patient.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

It could also be that the banks are reading this thread and are trying to stay ahead of anyone who knows the game. Very interesting info for sure.


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## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

I just renewed at 2.7% variable and declined the 3 yrs at 2.89% (might bite me later). The posted/in the mail variable rate was 3.10%. Pays to talk to them and negotiate. Next post on here will certainly someone who does better than I did, but I'm happy with it. First I tried to keep the 2.49% fixed I had, but no dice!


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## colossk (May 11, 2011)

northernguy said:


> With rates creeping up,


Huh? since when?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mortgage rates went up 1% and then dropped down a little......so it probably explains why people get different quotes over several months.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

We'll just have to wait and see. Fixed rates did creep up a little over the last six months. In the summer the best 5-year fixed I could find was 2.89. Now it's around 3.25.


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## northernguy (Oct 19, 2013)

colossk said:


> Huh? since when?


Given that two years ago I renewed for two years fixed rate of 2.49% and now the best 1-3 yr rate I could find was 2.89% (most much higher), yes rates are creeping up.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MRT said:


> well, at least they didn't waste your time...


They had the OP come in for a meeting to offer the posted rate?

That's not only wasting their time, it's insulting too.


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

It is insulting in that they made him go in, so you're right. It could have been handled over the phone. 

I meant it more in the vein of them not giving him the song and dance of the risk of waiting (negligible in today's environment), how this is a limited-time offer (so is every rate), how it will cost him money to leave (it won't), etc.

I guess they figured he wasn't among clueless % of borrowers who choose not to educate themselves at all; people who agree with the convenience and risk-avoidance of just signing the initial renewal offer and being done with it.

I suspect that when he goes to move the mortgage as his maturity date approaches, suddenly Scotia will sweeten the offer a bit...but now I would feel zero loyalty and would freely shop around. The real time waster is when the lender says no, lets you run around and find a better offer, then agrees to match.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

Scotia has the so called posted rate, which is a normal rate. Then they have a special rate, which is also posted on the website. So really, no need to come in for a special meeting, just a phone call if you didn't know otherwise. 

For exampe, right now they have a 3 year fixed 2.89%, which isn't that bad. You might be able to beat that with a broker, but you would have to move your mortgage in 6 months. Not sure if brokers can hold rates that long.


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