# 100 Canadian tourists can't get out of Haiti



## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

In the news today, it was reported that 100 Canadians are stuck inside an all-inclusive resort on Haita and unable to safely get to the airport due to protests going on.

My question is this, why would anyone in their right mind think it was a good idea to go to Haiti on a VACATION in the first place?

Given the situation in Haiti, it's like setting up a fenced compound in the middle of Syria and saying, 'well, what's outside the fence doesn't concern me, the weather inside is nice and warm. Beats winter in Toronto.'


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Longtimeago said:


> My question is this, why would anyone in their right mind think it was a good idea to go to Haiti on a VACATION in the first place?


Simple, they didn't think. They probably looked at the nice pictures and the price.

A lot of people are blissfully unaware of how bad things can get in some places. Or they think the bad things happen only to other people. You get that from living in a nice country like Canada.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

There is a Government of Canada Travel Advisory to avoid all non-essential travel to Haiti due to civil unrest. It is not clear if this is brand new, or just a renewal of a similar one they (and the USA) issued in July, 2018. There doesn't seem to be a convenient history of past advisories. Our good friends at Air Transat also seem to be involved this time - so much for their risk assessment.

It can be a difficult question - Do you want to help an impoverished economy by encouraging it as a tourist destination? Or is the risk too great?

If it drags on too long the Canadian tax payer will probably have to bail out their collective bad judgment by rescuing the tourists.

PS: The USA seems to have repeated a similar warning in December, 2018, and it looks like similar ones have come out every year or two for a little while.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Perhaps these are Canadians who are in Haiti tovisit family. 100 is certainly not meant...not even a plane load.

Certainly would not  be our choice for a vacation spot.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

The resort "Royal Decameron Indigo Beach" reportedly has 400 rooms. But I can't find any internet stories indicating any (or many) others are stuck there. Maybe the Quebec tourists were the only ones who ignored all the travel advisories. As Ian suggests, they may be visiting family - there are a lot of people of Haitian descent in Quebec now. The resort itself is 78km from the International Airport in Port au Prince, so they may have felt they were out of the hazardous areas.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

OhGreatGuru said:


> Maybe the Quebec tourists were the only ones who ignored all the travel advisories. As Ian suggests, they may be visiting family - there are a lot of people of Haitian descent in Quebec now.


And/or people who speak French are more likely to visit a place that speaks French? CBC reported they are from NB as well which also happens to have people who speak French. Air Transat is also based out of Montreal Quebec.

There are travel advisories for pretty much any country outside of Europe and NA.. even some in Europe like France.. Haiti only moved to the highest level today.. Quebec tourists aren't the only ones who ignore those

Sending a CC-150 Airbus or a few CC-130Js would be right up the RCAFs alley. We have to train for that mission anyways might as well do the real thing.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

You didn't provide a link LTA. What are they protesting - bellies hanging over speedos?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> You didn't provide a link LTA. What are they protesting - bellies hanging over speedos?




wondering whether sarcasm is really appropriate here, though

among the trapped in port-au-prince (in addition to the tourists trapped in the hotel) are a significant number of humanitarian workers. Including 2 aid workers from montreal, 8 montreal policemen training haitian security personnel, plus a doctor and "several" nurses from new brunswick.

the protestors are not targeting any of these foreigners, who nevertheless are in a certain degree of danger due to the ongoing violent clashes. Surviving in haiti at the moment must be like living in a war zone. Protestors are protesting haiti's president w burning cars, throwing rocks, rioting & looting.

the situation appears to be under control at the moment. Montreal's mayor & federal global affairs consular services are working to get canadians onto outbound flights from port-au-prince airport. 

air Transat appears particularly to blame as trapped tourists from US & european tour operators have already been airlifted to port-au-prince airport by helicopter. Only Air Transat clients are left still trapped in their hotel, with Air Transat reportedly insisting that their tourists must be evacuated by land transport along the dangerous highway, not helicopter airlift.

no reason given for this bizarre decision; however a possible reason could be that local helicopter company has an appalling safety/accident record (my daughter volunteering w an NGO in el salvador used to entertain her worried mother w accounts of aircraft stuck together w duct tape, of driving highway as passenger in vehicles where she'd look down & see the road surface slipping underneath her feet because no floor in vehicle)

.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Appears to be some nurses attached to relief work among the 100 or so.

Really, I it surprises me that anyone would assume that these are tourists in the true sense of the word. Lots of aid workers in Haiti and of course Canadians visiting Haitian relatives.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ And thus these aid workers would have known what *risks* were involved.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Yes, this morning's newspaper explains why the only tourists still stuck at that 400 room resort are 100 Canadians. The tour operators for other nationals all arranged for their customers to be helicoptered to the airport. Air Transat didn't, and still refuses to do so. Air Transat in the past has demonstrated its inability to think beyond the short-term cash flow bottom line. (eg. last year, 2 return flights from Caribbean that had been diverted from Montreal due to bad weather, sat on the Ottawa tarmac for 6 hours, keeping their passengers prisoner on the planes until the weather cleared in Montreal) This could be the fatally stupid decision for the company.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> You didn't provide a link LTA. What are they protesting - bellies hanging over speedos?


Multiple dead as well as prison breakouts over "bellies"?

I guess Google is not your friend?
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...rray-anti-government-protests-prison-breakout
https://www.france24.com/en/2019021...ronger-death-toll-reaches-7-people-corruption


Cheers


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Eclectic12 said:


> Multiple dead as well as prison breakouts over "bellies"?
> 
> I guess Google is not your friend?
> https://www.theguardian.com/global-...rray-anti-government-protests-prison-breakout
> ...


Thanks for the links Eclectic. I just returned from out of town with no connection to news and chose to look at CMF first to see what was 'new'.
Up to posting, this thread had no description of the issues, and no link to the source(s). 
Obviously I was wrong about the causes. I was also wrong to check out CMF as a source of news.
In the future I'll try to ignore the 'what's happening in the world' threads.
And if I've nsulted any fat, speedo-wearing tourists I aplogize.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

CMF as a source of general news? Interesting idea.

It struck me as a weird suggested cause with the Haiti mentioned as one of the poorest countries in many news reports, the 2010 earthquake, the US Red Cross scandal of $500 million raised to help rebuild where only six homes have been confirmed to have been built, the controversy over the Clinton's involvement/influence for re-construction etc.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/04/red-cross-haiti-report_n_7511080.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37826098


Mind you - I was surprised by this thread that there would be an all-inclusive resort in Haiti in the first place! :rolleyes2: 
Maybe CMF is a general news source ... LOL.


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

CMF is not (and should not be) a source of news. It has the same selective biased postings and news drivel as any social media site. 

OTOH, I can assure you I would never book, or get on, an Air Transat flight. Poor bottom line, more safety issues than other airlines per Transport Canada, contract pilots, leased planes, and no back up. I value my safety and convenience more than cheap fares. OTOH2, the people's airline came within 14m of being the worst aviation disaster in history not so long ago in San Fran, and Canadian rules for pilot hours are below European and US standards. One flies by Canadian dogsled at their peril.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> OTOH2, the people's airline came within 14m of being the worst aviation disaster in history not so long ago in San Fran, and Canadian rules for pilot hours are below European and US standards.


That incident could have been a massive disaster. However, the blame isn't entirely AC's. Some more detail at: https://abc7news.com/travel/air-canada-issues-new-report-on-dramatic-2017-near-miss-at-sfo/4336469/

Due to comments I've heard from a pilot, I avoid SFO as much as possible. I fear there might be a big disaster there at some point and this is not a new concern: https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Pilots-Say-SFO-Runways-Too-Close-for-Comfort-3004249.php


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I understand that, i.e. the issue with construction lighting, having previously read the various articles and reports, but AC's position on this incident is pretty weak and the flight crew wasn't exactly on the ball with their approach procedures. I am not giving AC a pass on this one. 

The point I am making is Canadian regulators are not doing enough to match European and US standards. I find it difficult to fully trust any Canadian airline, and especially the 'shoestring' contract operations.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Since starting this thread, I have been watching the news on these people stuck in Haiti. I've seen some interviews with nurses etc. who are there doing humanitarian work but have not seen any actual mention of 'tourists'. So it seems as though the media is either focusing on humanitarian workers stuck in Haiti and ignoring tourists, or there are no tourists stuck there, only humanitarian workers.

In fact, there were tourists and they were evacuated on Saturday. https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebecer-vacationers-stranded-in-haiti-are-on-their-way-home But even as late as this morning (Monday), watching the CBC Toronto news, this was not mentioned, only an interview with a nurse who finally got home. So WHY is it that the media seems to have ignored the tourists and asking questions as to WHY they were there in the first place? 

Can anyone explain to me why 113 tourists thought Haiti was a good place to vacation in the first place?


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> Since starting this thread, I have been watching the news on these people stuck in Haiti. I've seen some interviews with nurses etc. who are there doing humanitarian work but have not seen any actual mention of 'tourists'. So it seems as though the media is either focusing on humanitarian workers stuck in Haiti and ignoring tourists, or there are no tourists stuck there, only humanitarian workers.
> 
> In fact, there were tourists and they were evacuated on Saturday. https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebecer-vacationers-stranded-in-haiti-are-on-their-way-home But even as late as this morning (Monday), watching the CBC Toronto news, this was not mentioned, only an interview with a nurse who finally got home. So WHY is it that the media seems to have ignored the tourists and asking questions as to WHY they were there in the first place?
> 
> Can anyone explain to me why 113 tourists thought Haiti was a good place to vacation in the first place?


Articles from CBC on February 14 and 16 about the tourists:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-missionaries-airlifted-haiti-rescue-1.5023295
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-missionaries-airlifted-haiti-rescue-1.5023295

The Travel Advisory for Haiti was “avoid all nonessential travel” on February 14 and was changed to “avoid all travel” on February 15. I am not sure what it was months ago when these people booked their vacations, or even what it was when they left Canada. It might have been “exercise a high degree of caution”. Circumstances can change quickly, and if you have paid for a vacation, you are more likely to go, due to the psychology of sunk costs. 

I like to feel safe when travelling and personally would not choose to vacation in Haiti, Jamaica, or India, or certain cities in the US. But I visit Mexico regularly, choosing safe and familiar places. Your personal risk assessment may vary.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Similarly, when we chose a safari in Africa a few years back, we did Botswana and Namibia rather than Kenya et al due to the 'nearness' of the Somalian sh*thole and terrorism that has hit Kenya. There are just too many 'less troubled' places to be.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

heyjude said:


> Articles from CBC on February 14 and 16 about the tourists:
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-missionaries-airlifted-haiti-rescue-1.5023295
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-missionaries-airlifted-haiti-rescue-1.5023295
> 
> ...


No, the article you link is NOT about the tourists heyjude, it is about misssionaries. That's part of my point. I can understand aid workers being there, I can't understand tourists being there and if I were a news REPORTER, I would be asking the tourists what they were doing there in the first place. While coverage has been given to people being stranded in Haiti, I've yet to see anyone questioning why they were there. It doesn't take a genius to know Haiti is not a place for tourists to have been going in the last few years at least and in fact, in the last few decades. It has always been an 'iffy' country in terms of safety.

To me it's like another recent story where people were duped out of their money by an 'investment company' advertising with 'infomercials' on the radio. Apparently 2 guys made of with millions. So we see someone being interviewed and blaming the radio station, the government, etc. etc. but never blaming themselves for allowing their GREED to govern their actions. 

What I would really like to see is a TV news reporter ask people the questions they should be asking them. 'Why are you trying to blame others for your own stupidity?' Or in the case of this Haiti incident, 'why were you there in the first place? If a price is cheap enough, do you make a habit of ignoring common sense? Just how stupid are you?' I'd love to see the answers they would give.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Since starting this thread, I have been watching the news on these people stuck in Haiti. I've seen some interviews with nurses etc. who are there doing humanitarian work but have not seen any actual mention of 'tourists' ... In fact, there were tourists and they were evacuated on Saturday. https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebecer-vacationers-stranded-in-haiti-are-on-their-way-home But even as late as this morning (Monday), watching the CBC Toronto news, this was not mentioned, only an interview with a nurse who finally got home. So WHY is it that the media seems to have ignored the tourists ...


Toronto specific maybe?

I can recall both CBC Newsworld as well as the CTV 24 hour news channel having segments Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday going from "hope to leave" to "on the flight, expected to land" to short interviews with returned tourists. You did have to listen closely because some segments would jump from tourists to aid workers/missionaries without a lot of fanfare.

Here's a CBC article from 7am Saturday ... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-tourists-haiti-1.5022510
Another from 10:30pm Saturday ... https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/02/16/quebec-haiti-tourists_a_23671206/




Longtimeago said:


> ... and asking questions as to WHY they were there in the first place?
> Can anyone explain to me why 113 tourists thought Haiti was a good place to vacation in the first place?


No idea about why there wouldn't be an interview asking why they thought it would be a good place.

OTOH, expressing surprise to a Haitian born colleague had him responding that there are many all-inclusive resorts in Haiti. He thinks that if more people would be tourists in Haiti, the overall economy would improve. 

Dominican Republic, which is the other about two thirds of the same island says that after the sugar market collapsed, switching to tourism created about 400K jobs were created.


Cheers


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Maybe Air Transat wanted them to complete their stay so that no one could ask for a refund? They were never unsafe on the resort. DR advises tourists to stay in the resort.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> .... Can anyone explain to me why 113 tourists thought Haiti was a good place to vacation in the first place?


Probably because it was cheap. Everyone loves a bargain, and not enough people stop and ask themselves "Wait a minute! Why is this so much cheaper than, for example, the Dominican Republic, which is on the other half of the same island?"


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Or in this case because it is a preferentially French speaking island. Note the tourists were mostly Quebecers or New Brunswicker. Sound familiar?


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## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> No, the article you link is NOT about the tourists heyjude, it is about misssionaries.


I apologize, I made a mistake. Here is the article I meant to link.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/haiti-quebec-canada-stranded-1.5019136


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Haitians are pursuing agreements with the Chinese, similar to what the Dominican Republic and Panama have done.

_ "We are looking for alliances, partners who want to come and invest with us. We are not looking for traditional aid, or people who are going to give charity. That's what put Haiti in the situation it is in."_

It will be interesting how the US will react when the Chinese start building military bases in the region.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article211776004.html


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

The Chinese extract a lot of concessions in all these deals. They are doing the same in SE Asia from which I just returned. The Vietnamese people pushed back when their gov't was making a few of these deals because the Chinese want to run their projects as if they are on sovereign soil, e.g. Chinese rules, Chinese workers, Chinese management, etc. The Vietnamese resent being excluded from operations in their own country. Other current examples in both Vietnam and Cambodia: The Chinese build and operate a hotel in Hanoi. It is staffed with Chinese workers and Chinese tourists stay in this hotel and they bring a Chinese tour guide with them to tour Vietnam. These countries should be very wary of making deals with the big bully.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> Toronto specific maybe?
> 
> I can recall both CBC Newsworld as well as the CTV 24 hour news channel having segments Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday going from "hope to leave" to "on the flight, expected to land" to short interviews with returned tourists. You did have to listen closely because some segments would jump from tourists to aid workers/missionaries without a lot of fanfare.
> 
> ...


Tell your Haitian born colleague to do some research into where the money generated with all-inclusive hotels ends up Eclectic12. The majority of the money the tourists pay, ends up NOT in the country they visit.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

To a point. The profits leave the country but most of the labour force and procurement of operational goods and services would be locally based. No different than how almost all multi-nationals work in a host country.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

The Dominican Republic seems heart broken by what they are losing by having more all inclusives ... :rolleyes2:


Cheers


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## *PetePerfectMan* (Jan 24, 2019)

Longtimeago said:


> In the news today, it was reported that 100 Canadians are stuck inside an all-inclusive resort on Haita and unable to safely get to the airport due to protests going on.
> 
> My question is this, why would anyone in their right mind think it was a good idea to go to Haiti on a VACATION in the first place?
> 
> Given the situation in Haiti, it's like setting up a fenced compound in the middle of Syria and saying, 'well, what's outside the fence doesn't concern me, the weather inside is nice and warm. Beats winter in Toronto.'



Going back on this thread, we can't say what are the motives of those people in visiting Haiti. Maybe they want to experience how to be in that situation. We can't tell.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> To a point. The profits leave the country but most of the labour force and procurement of operational goods and services would be locally based. No different than how almost all multi-nationals work in a host country.


Unless you do the actual research to determine just how a given all-inclusive operates AltaRed, some of the suppositions that you might make will turn out to be incorrect. For example, Sandals does attempt to pursue a local friendly business model that sees money stay in the local economy. But they are the exception to the general rule and many others do very little for the local economy and not only will bring in all higher level personnel but will even bring in food and drink from outside the country. Overall, the only real winners with all-inclusives are not the locals or the tourists, but rather the tour companies and corporations that run the resorts.

I have seen first hand how the introduction of all-inclusives can affect a local economy. A bar that had been doing good business for decades saw business drop by 90% in just 2 seasons. A restaurant next door closed after just 2 seasons. This happened when 2 large hotels nearby, which had been providing the bulk of their business, went all-inclusive. Nor did the 2 hotels end up making any more money than before or employing any more locals. As for the visitor, they no longer have a choice of where to eat or drink, those choices have gone out of business. Does that make you think the all-inclusive is likely to provide you with the best in food and drink when that happens?

You will also find there is a correlation between where the majority of all-inclusive resorts are found and countries with high unemployment, low incomes, high crime and corruption. 

It is not that responsible all-inclusive resorts cannot be made available, as I noted Sandals is known to operate that way but the majority do not. Here is a reasoned article on the subject. https://www.responsibletravel.com/copy/should-all-inclusive-holidays-be-banned

Here is another intersting article. https://haljsinger.wordpress.com/20...esorts-suck-and-why-prices-are-a-great-thing/

Then take a look at this article and how they 'spin' it. Note the number of times ROI is mentioned. http://www.amresorts.com/developmen...ing-powerful-results-for-guests-and-investors
You can translate ROI to 'money taken out'. They are not about benefiting the country where they operate, they are ALL about benefiting themselves.

And again, I am not condemning all providers of all-inclusive vacations. It is possible to find a responsible all-inclusive as I have already said, here is another article worth reading. https://uproxx.com/life/how-to-ethical-all-inclusive-resort-travel/3/ But note, they are the exception and you must seek them out. Unfortunately, I'm sure you know as well as I do, that what most people 'seek out' is the lowest price and those are the most unlikely to be operating for the benefit of all parties involved.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Eclectic12 said:


> The Dominican Republic seems heart broken by what they are losing by having more all inclusives ... :rolleyes2:
> 
> 
> Cheers


Why don't you try listening to what a native of the Dominican Republic would like to say to you.
https://uproxx.com/life/how-to-ethi...nabienspanish.com/why-are-all-inclusives-bad/

Here is a broader view. https://www.tourismconcern.org.uk/all-inclusives/


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm pretty sure the native of DR wants to say something different than "404 - Page Not Found" ... :biggrin:


Interesting that the blogger couldn't figure out a way to deal with tipping pool side bar tenders. It didn't seem to be a problem for those I have observed (or myself).


Cheers


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> And again, I am not condemning all providers of all-inclusive vacations. It is possible to find a responsible all-inclusive as I have already said, here is another article worth reading. https://uproxx.com/life/how-to-ethical-all-inclusive-resort-travel/3/ But note, they are the exception and you must seek them out. Unfortunately, I'm sure you know as well as I do, that what most people 'seek out' is the lowest price and those are the most unlikely to be operating for the benefit of all parties involved.


I would not be caught in a 'lowest price' place ever, but I understand some people think it is okay to have just a so-so holiday on their precious time off rather than spending another 10-20% for something they will more likely remember positively. Not many people actually enjoy their below water line cruise cabins next to the engine room either.

I fully recognize most of the big companies are in for maximizing profit and pulling it out back to home office. But all of them benefit the local economy in a number of way, i.e. income taxes, maintenance, at least some local food and the majority of the hospitality grunts. I've been to enough 'all inclusives' in so-so places to see that for myself. Local businesses thrive IF they are prepared to deliver what the tourist wants, because even that 'all inclusive' tourist tires of resort food after awhile, and/or have that shopping gene. If there were no such resorts, they wouldn't have the tourists in the first place. Be careful what one bitches about.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> ... I have seen first hand how the introduction of all-inclusives can affect a local economy. A bar that had been doing good business for decades saw business drop by 90% in just 2 seasons. A restaurant next door closed after just 2 seasons. This happened when 2 large hotels nearby, which had been providing the bulk of their business, went all-inclusive. Nor did the 2 hotels end up making any more money than before or employing any more locals. As for the visitor, they no longer have a choice of where to eat or drink, those choices have gone out of business...


Are you suggesting that your example condemns tourist development via all-inclusive resorts? Even in countries that otherwise lack their own investment capacity and employment opportunities?

Disclosure - I have never myself stayed in an all-inclusive. We have always managed to find and prefer co-existing small local hotels and eateries.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Longtimeago said:


> Unless you do the actual research to determine just how a given all-inclusive operates AltaRed, some of the suppositions that you might make will turn out to be incorrect ...


Agreed ... though I guess I've been lucky as all of the staff I have chatted at various AI resorts have said they are locals. Some said they have long commutes but their pay is higher than what is available closer to home.

Where the aim is allegedly to keep people in the AI resort to maximum the spending ... having a car rental place, cab stands and in one case, a shuttle bus running to the nearest town for a bit more than business hours seems counter productive.


Cheers


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