# Pro-Trump (possibly alt right) in Alberta



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

People chanted "lock her up" at a political rally in Edmonton
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lock-her-up-notley-alexander-edmonton-1.3882845

So there we go. The pro Trump, possibly alt-right supporters are definitely in Alberta. Only fans of Trump would mimic his style of rally. The media outlet that organized this was The Rebel, a platform founded by Ezra Levant. He's a past Reform Party guy, and clearly has a sore spot for race issues and equality. Levant has also said hateful things about gypsies.

Back in 2010, Ezra Levant accused George Soros of having been a child Nazi collaborator, and Sun Media had to apologize to Soros for the slander. Levant continues to accuse Soros of meddling with all kinds of things, like in this article of his.

Is this sounding alt-right enough for you yet? Those chants in Edmonton weren't just superficial imitation of a Trump rally.


 Organized by right-wing media
 Homophobic signs displayed by protesters
 Headed by a guy with a chip on his shoulder about equality and races
 Headed by a guy who is out to get Soros (just like Infowars / Soros-Illuminati obsession)

*Canada, you've got alt-right*.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Love the stop carbon tax signs


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> People chanted "lock her up" at a political rally in Edmonton
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lock-her-up-notley-alexander-edmonton-1.3882845
> 
> So there we go. The pro Trump, possibly alt-right supporters are definitely in Alberta. Only fans of Trump would mimic his style of rally. The media outlet that organized this was The Rebel, a platform founded by Ezra Levant. He's a past Reform Party guy, and clearly has a sore spot for race issues and equality. Levant has also said hateful things about gypsies.
> ...


Jimmy: You better pick somebody else for this one-Ezra Levant is Jewish-which by the PC rules of the day makes Jimmy Beach an ANTI SEMITE.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

While calling to arrest an elected politician is very, very wrong, this is not exactly new to Canada. James, have you published similar accusatory posts when we heard constant calls to arrest PM Harper? I couldn't find them by searching CMF.

https://www.change.org/p/rcmp-commissioner-bob-paulson-arrest-and-charge-stephen-harper-for-treason


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Not to mention anti Harper "songs" popular among progressives with the lyrics like "make him walk the plank". http://harperman.ca/rants/

James, unless you protested the above, do you think you are just being a hypocrite?


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I could only get the second video to play but to me it sounded like they were half joking around mimicking the chants from the US election.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

new dog said:


> I could only get the second video to play but to me it sounded like they were half joking around mimicking the chants from the US election.


Still, it has the markings of a dangerous turn in Canadian politics if the purveyors are not called out on it. And it has nothing to do with political correctness. It is about civility and some respect even if one does not agree. And especially so when Chris Alexander did nothing about it at the time. I'd suggest that shows his true colours. 

Erva Levant is classic Trump style sensationalism. Distort the facts to the point they become 'your' facts.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

The problem isn't the alt-right. The problem is the alt-left's version of reality.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The problem is people who make excuses for the people who hide behind the newly adopted "alt right" moniker, because they know the "white supremacy" label has a distinctly odorous quality to it for the vast majority of people.

But, there is no hiding the truth..........we see them.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

sags said:


> The problem is people who make excuses for the people who hide behind the newly adopted "alt right" moniker, because they know the "white supremacy" label has a distinctly odorous quality to it for the vast majority of people.
> 
> But, there is no hiding the truth..........we see them.


The left has used the term "racist" for so long to taint anyone who disagrees with them that it has lost its effectiveness. So, they came up with "white supremacist" to try to regain headlines.

The intolerant left is failing miserably and are pulling out all the stops to try to hang on to relevance, but no one cares what they say anymore. By next year, they'll be at the same level as the nutbar on the street corner with a "the world is ending" sign.

I should have invested in safe space rentals...


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

bass player said:


> The problem isn't the alt-right. The problem is the alt-left's version of reality.


Perhaps, but there seems to a brand of extremism developing that is pushing beyond even the old Reformers. Reform policy doesn't have a hope in this country, nor should it.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Perhaps, but there seems to a brand of extremism developing that is pushing beyond even the old Reformers. Reform policy doesn't have a hope in this country, nor should it.


Extremism? Like CNN saying all women should wear the hijab? Or TIME magazine saying all Americans that voted for Crooked Hillary should refuse to pay federal income tax? The MSM is at this point just like a SNL skit.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

Does this article remind you of any hysterically obsessed member of this board? http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...t-but-are-living-in-their-alt-left-world.html

LOL @ the climate heroes.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Perhaps, but there seems to a brand of extremism developing that is pushing beyond even the old Reformers. Reform policy doesn't have a hope in this country, nor should it.



Alberta truly is the Texas of Canada. :sorrow: 

Seriously, the economy here is terrible and emotions are running high among those who have suffered. A large number of the unemployed and underemployed blame Rachel Notley. 

I know quite a few folks who are livid with Notley but none of them have ever mused about jailing her. Makes me wonder if participants in the "jail her" chant were expressing frustration and anger rather than an actual policy. 

We're not immune to the draw of populism in Canada. We need to work to ensure that we don't end up with some Canadian version of Donald Trump in the PMO.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

@AltaRed, Olivaw and others who are so upset with a bunch of morons chanting against Notley in Alberta...

Can you all confirm that you were just as vocal when we heard constant calls to jail PM Stephen Harper and when CBC was very supportive of crap songs suggesting that he should "walk the plank"? 

Thank you in advance.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

SMK said:


> Does this article remind you of any hysterically obsessed member of this board? http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016...t-but-are-living-in-their-alt-left-world.html
> 
> LOL @ the climate heroes.


What a great article!

We should start painting these people as alt-left for a laugh.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

mordko said:


> @AltaRed, Olivaw and others who are so upset with a bunch of morons chanting against Notley in Alberta...
> 
> Can you all confirm that you were just as vocal when we heard constant calls to jail PM Stephen Harper and when CBC was very supportive of crap songs suggesting that he should "walk the plank"?
> 
> Thank you in advance.


Not to spoil your cute talking point but I'm not terribly upset. Re-read my post.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mordko, I was just as p*ssed at those that ragged on Harper the same way and pushed back many times. I liked that the Cons were balancing the budget and indeed, I tend to be a fiscal Conservative in most matters but Harper had overstayed his welcome, as did the PC party in Alberta. Alas, the pendulum tends to swing too far when politicians overstay. I fear the federal Liberal win on where it is leading Canada and how it is going about it. But I also fear the far right and what they stand for. Call me a centrist if you wish but that is where I think a civilized society functions best. 

I simply don't buy into the viciousness expressed by 'angry' people that feel they have full license to act and say what they wish without consequences and accountability. Social media is bringing out the worst in those hiding behind their keyboards.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

The alt-left can't be reasoned with, so I'm going to take my own advice and stop trying to reason with them. The correct response to their warped ideology is to laugh at them...and, of course, at the same time ensuring that they are held accountable for their words and actions.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

Is it true the rally lasted 2 hours and the chants 30 seconds? It started innocently enough with "vote her out".


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Alt right try to wrap a piece of coal in Christmas paper and call it a diamond.


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Alt-left steal your diamond and protest that it wasn't big enough.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Alt-right buys its wife a cubic zirconia engagement ring and blames the left when she finds out it isn't real.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

Argonaut said:


> Alt-left steal your diamond and protest that it wasn't big enough.


And they hold a "protest" and loot the local diamond store for more diamonds...


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

sags said:


> Alt right try to wrap a piece of coal in Christmas paper and call it a diamond.


Al Sharpton gets on his soapbox and calls black coal a dog whistle for racists. CNN then states that proves Trump is a racist because he once gave Melania a diamond.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mordko said:


> @AltaRed, Olivaw and others who are so upset with a bunch of morons chanting against Notley in Alberta...
> 
> Can you all confirm that you were just as vocal when we heard constant calls to jail PM Stephen Harper and when CBC was very supportive of crap songs suggesting that he should "walk the plank"?




the above is a grotesque exaggeration.

there were no calls to jail Stephen Harper, let alone "constant" calls. It may be possible to dredge up an extremist or 2 from underneath some internet stone who harboured such a lunatic idea last year, but it certainly was not voiced by mainstream canada.

instead, what we heard during the 2015 election campaign was how close the vote would be, how canadians would be content to settle down under whoever would be elected. Even here in cmf forum, many members posted how, after the election, they'd be cool with any one of the 3 lead candidates.

as for "walking the plank," it's an ancient & common figure of speech. Almost every celebrity or politician at one time or another will be invited to take the same egress from a ship. It means nothing.


.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> the above is a grotesque exaggeration.
> 
> there were no calls to jail Stephen Harper, let alone "constant" calls. It may be possible to dredge up an extremist or 2 from underneath some internet stone who harboured such a lunatic idea last year, but it certainly was not voiced by mainstream canada.
> 
> ...


No calls? An extremist or 2? Here are 10 thousand names based on a 2-second search: https://www.change.org/p/rcmp-commissioner-bob-paulson-arrest-and-charge-stephen-harper-for-treason. 

Let's agree your claim was BS, as per usual. 

And I can accept CBC supporting songs that PM Harper should "walk the plank" as a figure of speech. 

As it happens, "lock her up" is also an ancient figure of speech. As in " 'Well, let's hope they lock him up and throw away the key" or "it would be good to lock him up in some institution where the witch could not get at him".

Everyone's good with figurative speech? Awesome.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

mordko said:


> No calls? An extremist or 2? Here are 10 thousand names based on a 2-second search: https://www.change.org/p/rcmp-commissioner-bob-paulson-arrest-and-charge-stephen-harper-for-treason.
> 
> Let's agree your claim was BS, as per usual.




i'm not making any claim & i certainly do not post "BS as per usual," a fact that you already know very well.

pretending that there were "constant calls" for Stephen Harper to be jailed is a monstrous lie. Face it, i'm the one who called BS on your initial BS.

you see, i already knew that you would be the One who would dredge up your solitary psychotic source, with its thousands of fake names & its tiny handful of freak followers suffering from mental health issues. That is why i was careful to refer to the dredging in advance. I knew that you would dredge. 

& you fell for it! right on cue, you dredged! oh, what a clever little lying dredger you are!


.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

bass player said:


> The left has used the term "racist" for so long to taint anyone who disagrees with them that it has lost its effectiveness. So, they came up with "white supremacist" to try to regain headlines.
> 
> The intolerant left is failing miserably and are pulling out all the stops to try to hang on to relevance, but no one cares what they say anymore. By next year, they'll be at the same level as the nutbar on the street corner with a "the world is ending" sign.
> 
> I should have invested in safe space rentals...


Big news-Angela Merkel has just signed on with the ALT-RIGHT-the tide is turning http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-veil-not-appropriate-astonishing-U-turn.html


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> While calling to arrest an elected politician is very, very wrong, this is not exactly new to Canada. James, have you published similar accusatory posts when we heard constant calls to arrest PM Harper? I couldn't find them by searching CMF.


But this is somewhat different. The chant, and the common themes with the American alt right, shows that this is part of a broader movement. Earlier we had the Reform party, which was already shockingly far-right. And now I fear that some within Alberta are moving even farther right. They're already copying the style of the Americans.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I don't approve of people calling for Harper to be locked up either.
> 
> But this is somewhat different. The chant, and the common themes with the American alt right, shows that this is part of a broader movement.


Shouting "lock her up" is mild compared to the alt-left who call Trump Hitler, who have killed cops, who have pulled white people out of cars and viciously beat them for being white.

The alt-left movement is the one to be worried about. Anyone who denies that is a fool and not worthy of debate.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

james4beach said:


> But this is somewhat different. The chant, and the common themes with the American alt right, shows that this is part of a broader movement. Earlier we had the Reform party, which was already shockingly far-right. And now I fear that some within Alberta are moving even farther right. They're already copying the style of the Americans.


My,my the alt-right are so busy. Why you informed us in another thread that you 'think' they are planning a 'hit' on Mr. George Soros,esq.
What won't they think of next.

Time to start a new thread james,I hear Big Foot has joined the alt-right.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

In both US & Canada, white people are overwhelmingly in positions of power & authority, all the way from police officers, to sheriffs, prosecutors, judges, law makers, politicians, leaders, domestic intelligence.

If you somehow think that black people, hispanics or muslims are anywhere close to control or a real threat -- as you guys seem to -- you are totally disconnected from reality. You have an irrational fear. It's paranoia.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

james4beach said:


> In both US & Canada, white people are overwhelmingly in positions of power & authority, all the way from police officers, to sheriffs, prosecutors, judges, law makers, politicians, leaders, domestic intelligence.


So what? The population is overwhelmingly white, and therefore, white people predominate many industries. Do some simple math instead of making false racist accusations. I'm sick and tired of those who view every single thing though racial or gender filter, and then have the audacity to accuse others of being racist.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

^^

Well it's not just me that said that there is an authoritarian backlash against immigration. I have repeatedly quoted a social psychologist
named Jonathan Haidt who says immigration needs to be controlled. He goes to great lengths to explain that when people feel their way of life is threatened they will react against it and it is facile to call them all racists. 






> If this argument is correct, then it leads to a clear set of policy prescriptions for globalists. *First and foremost: Think carefully about the way your country handles immigration and try to manage it in a way that is less likely to provoke an authoritarian reaction. Pay attention to three key variables: the percentage of foreign-born residents at any given time, the degree of moral difference of each incoming group, and the degree of assimilation being achieved by each group’s children.*
> 
> Legal immigration from morally different cultures is not problematic even with low levels of assimilation if the numbers are kept low; small ethnic enclaves are not a normative threat to any sizable body politic. Moderate levels of immigration by morally different ethnic groups are fine, too, as long as the immigrants are seen as successfully assimilating to the host culture. When immigrants seem eager to embrace the language, values, and customs of their new land, it affirms nationalists’ sense of pride that their nation is good, valuable, and attractive to foreigners. But whenever a country has historically high levels of immigration, from countries with very different moralities, and without a strong and successful assimilationist program, it is virtually certain that there will be an authoritarian counter-reaction, and you can expect many status quo conservatives to support it.


So I give my sources to reinforce my argument.

Of course you thought the *central theme* of Trump's campaign concerned international bankers and Jews.
Go figure.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> In both US & Canada, white people are overwhelmingly in positions of power & authority, all the way from police officers, to sheriffs, prosecutors, judges, law makers, politicians, leaders, domestic intelligence.
> 
> If you somehow think that black people, hispanics or muslims are anywhere close to control or a real threat -- as you guys seem to -- you are totally disconnected from reality. You have an irrational fear. It's paranoia.


Jimmy: I assume you are excluding Jewish persons from this "white people" group you want to purge.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm no longer sure what the central theme of Trump's campaign is.

The central theme of the alt-right, however, is *********** and white supremacy. These are not topics I come up with out of the blue, nor are they fun to me. They are horrific themes to keep thinking about. I post about it because *********** is behind the movement sweeping the US, and I fear it may contaminate Canada too.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I'm no longer sure what the central theme of Trump's campaign is.
> 
> The central theme of the alt-right, however, is *********** and white supremacy. These are not topics I come up with out of the blue, nor are they fun to me. They are horrific themes to keep thinking about. I post about it because *********** is behind the movement sweeping the US, and I fear it may contaminate Canada too.


I am starting to think you are just trolling all of us.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I'm no longer sure what the central theme of Trump's campaign is.
> 
> The central theme of the alt-right, however, is *********** and white supremacy. These are not topics I come up with out of the blue, nor are they fun to me. They are horrific themes to keep thinking about. I post about it because *********** is behind the movement sweeping the US, and I fear it may contaminate Canada too.


The central theme of the alt-left is racism with violence and cop killing tossed in the mix, and they get support from the media, the compliant left, and Obama. That's the difference between the right and the left...the right hate white supremacists, but the left encourage violence, racists, and cops killers.

The left are the deplorable ones.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> But this is somewhat different. The chant, and the common themes with the American alt right, shows that this is part of a broader movement. Earlier we had the Reform party, which was already shockingly far-right. And now I fear that some within Alberta are moving even farther right. They're already copying the style of the Americans.


Here is David Suzuki saying that PM Stephen Harper should be imprisoned. Suzuki has a lot of followers, it's a sizable movement. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/02/david-suzuki-stephen-harper-jailed-climate_n_9143278.html

Was that Ok with you? Would you repeat what you are saying about Ezra in relation to Suzuki? Were CBC promoted "folk" songs for Harper to walk the plank Kosher? 

If you think that the above is usual rough and tumble of politics, then perhaps you should stop squirming and hand wringing about Alberta.

Alright?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't mind it one bit if someone said "I think politician X is guilty of the crime of Y"

What's worrying about the "lock her up chants" is not the criticism of the politician. The worrying part is that the style of the protest is a strong indication of people joining a broader movement rooted in extremism, that has close ties to European and American white supremacy.

Suzuki criticizing Harper, is not part of a global extremism movement. He's not funded by, or influenced, by extremist groups like the KKK and neo nazis. There is no underlying ideology here that is centered around harming people, or calling for a return to times of segregation and apartheid.

But the alt-right _are_ associated with an extremist group. I don't know if Ezra is funded by any of the American alt-right, but he's definitely influenced by their ideology. He praises Breitbart. Alex Jones / Infowars carries articles authored by Ezra... *he is alt-right. He is tied to an extremist group that is centered in white supremacy.*


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

People like James are why Trump was elected...a protest vote against the most brainwashed people in society. It's frightening that some people have such a massive lack of critical thinking.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

I still haven't found out if the chant had lasted just a few seconds, but this opinion seems reasonable enough. http://www.torontosun.com/2016/12/05/media-mocks-peoples-legitimate-tax-worries


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> Would you repeat what you are saying about Ezra in relation to Suzuki?


No, because - unlike Ezra - Suzuki doesn't go around praising wacko sources like Breitbart, nor does he write articles for conspiracy-theory-central Infowars. You know, the place that ran stories saying that Hillary ran a pedophile sex ring (pizzagate).


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

In Richmond BC someone dumb *** distributed a racist flyer and everyone has freaked out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...charged-flyer-surfaces-in-bc-suburb-1.3856495

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/racist-flyers-richmond-1.3875639

This one has nothing to do with Trump or alt-right but people upset over high house prices and Asians. As you can see the reaction is overwhelming and people of all colours white included don't support this. However the same people of all colours Asians included are concerned about being able to own a home.

On another note CNN was showing a white racist convention on TV once again. A young white girl watching it at work said she didn't like the way CNN reports on this and making it look like white people are bad.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I don't mind it one bit if someone said "I think politician X is guilty of the crime of Y"
> 
> [/B]


If you think Suzuki's call to lock PM Harper into prison, thousands of signatures under PM's photo behind bars and songs "Harper should walk the plank" are all cool, then please shut the f-ck up about a protest in Alberta. 

PM Harper lead the country through devastating world crisis and Canada's economy performed best of all developed nations. Notley is destroying the province: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/global-su...ndustry-losing-appeal-for-investors-1.3191880

A little protest seems more than justified, even if slightly uncivil. Particularly so given that liberals have no problem whatsoever being utterly disgusting towards conservatives.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> No, because - unlike Ezra - Suzuki doesn't go around praising wacko sources like Breitbart, nor does he write articles for conspiracy-theory-central Infowars. You know, the place that ran stories saying that Hillary ran a pedophile sex ring (pizzagate).


Suzuki of course is a wacky source all by himself. His anti-science scaremongering idiocy is designed to ruin livelihoods.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko - are you an Albertan right-winger? And I'm an Ontario liberal... even worse, I lived in Toronto... near the gay district!


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I live in Ontario. I am a Canadian Conservative; socially liberal and support economic freedom. That means that I am a real liberal as opposed to Trudeau's lot, not to mention NDP.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

And really James... Your hypocrisy is staggering.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe David Suzuki didn't like Harper peeing on redwood trees.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ays-ex-leader-visited-shadowy-gop-summer-camp

Peeing on trees ? Cavorting naked in the woods ? Cremation of Care........weird.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^ exactly. That is the level of intelligence and civility among our opponents. And then they winge.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Edmonton, Alberta: Suspect in custody after women wearing hijabs threatened with noose at Edmonton LRT station
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-hijab-noose-threat-1.3884501



> According to police, the man, believed to be in his 60s, approached two women wearing hijabs at the University of Alberta LRT station last month, pulled a rope from his pocket, tied a noose and said, "This is for you."


Wow, threatening to kill people. Horrific.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Someone ACTUALLY trying to kill people: http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/12/05...rist-charged-in-threat-to-bomb-police-station

Nothing to see there.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Maybe David Suzuki didn't like Harper peeing on redwood trees.
> http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ays-ex-leader-visited-shadowy-gop-summer-camp
> Peeing on trees ? Cavorting naked in the woods ? Cremation of Care........weird.


Not taking politial sides here. Just pointing out that you better re-read your link. Nothing there about cavorting naked I'm afraid. 
A guy peeing on a tree in the woods. What do you do squat? Now that is weird.:disgust:


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Oh it has a "rich" history all right.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/05/bohemian-grove200905

_Richard Nixon (a member of Cave Man camp), whose 1967 lakeside talk kicked off his successful run for the presidency, was caught on one of his Oval Office tapes describing the Grove as “the most ***** goddamned thing you could ever imagine.”_


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Set aside the cavorting and peeing on the trees if you wish, and there is still worshiping a nine foot Owl, wearing kilts with nothing underneath, performing skits, Druid ceremonies and the Cremation of Care........what is that about ? 

I have been on a lot of fishing and hunting trips and don't remember anyone wearing kilts....and I am pretty sure I would remember that.

Maybe it just isn't my cup of tea........as they say.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> Someone ACTUALLY trying to kill people: http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/12/05...rist-charged-in-threat-to-bomb-police-station
> 
> Nothing to see there.


The thing that keeps surprising me about you mordko is... I would have never thought I would see someone with Jewish heritage be so blase, and dismissive, about an ethnic/religious group being targeted and threatened.

Maybe it's because you think that the racists will only go after muslims, indians, asians, africans, hispanics, and then run out of steam?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^ First of all, the racists target Jews more than any other group. And yes, blacks are targeted too. And gays. I am strongly opposed to any type of racism or homophobia, that should be pretty obvious. 

Secondly, there has been a lot of talk about anti Muslim "racism". I am not seeing actual physical attacks. Like Jews have been knifed, bombed, machine gunned in the west in the last 12 months. Yes, some bigotry against Muslims (which by definition isn't racist). Not great, but so what. You are showing similar bigotry against conservatives. Ideologies can be disliked, even unfairly.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> The thing that keeps surprising me about you mordko is... I would have never thought I would see someone with Jewish heritage be so blase, and dismissive, about an ethnic/religious group being targeted and threatened.
> 
> Maybe it's because you think that the racists will only go after muslims, indians, asians, africans, hispanics, and then run out of steam?


You constantly post your narrative that the only racists are white male (non jewish) racists-no black, chinese, east indian, muslim, jewish or female racists-none at all. Your worldview sounds pretty similar to that of Adolph Hitler-you just have different devils to hate.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

mordko said:


> ^ First of all, the racists target Jews more than any other group. .


In which country? 

Certainly not in the United States. Blacks, gay men, and Jews - are the main victims of hate crime, in that order.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> You are showing similar bigotry against conservatives.


I definitely don't have a problem with conservatives. What we call "conservative" in Canada used to be more moderate, but it took a turn farther right with the Reform Party and Harper. A lot of older, more traditional conservatives in this country are deeply dissatisfied with what is called Conservative today in Canada.



> Yes, some bigotry against Muslims (*which by definition isn't racist*)


That's a very disturbing comment. Mordko, I know that you hate Muslims. You carry a grudge against Muslims that I presume traces to your heritage and upbringing rooted in the old world. I suspect you've brought old world conflict and hatred to Canada...

You would fail the test for Canadian values, mister mordko.

You constantly post anti-Muslim hatred, and have been doing it for a long time on this forum. What's complex about you is that you've found a way to be comfortable with the fact that your own people suffer constant racism, yet you can perpetuate racism towards Muslims.

For example, you've convinced yourself that it isn't racism when you do it against Muslims. _You're still a racist_ and if people aren't telling you that in real life, they're doing you a disservice.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Actually, the bigot between the two of us is you. Here is why:

- you have no problem attacking my heritage. You do have a problem attacking cultures which force women to dress in tents, murder gays and other minorities and feed terrorist gangs. 

- in doing so, you are also demonstrating bigotry to the people you are supposedly defending by applying a different standard to them, as if they are not fully responsible humans.

- while you and me have a very different set of values, it is you who beats himself on the chest and accuses me of "failing Canadian values" (while living in the US and earlier claiming that it is racist to even ask people about values).

As you are intellectually vacuous, let me chew it for you: Muslims are not a race, which is why you can't be racist by being islamophobic. You can change in and out of being a Muslim (except a bunch Muslims will wanna murder you in the latter case).

Here is Richard Dawkins, explaining this point which should be bloody obvious: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IOe5NSGdg-c

Also, the claim that I post "anti-Muslim hate" is pure, unadulterated libel. There are plenty of Muslims who reject these values, but no reasonable person can deny that as an ideology today Islam is a backward movement, which aspires racism, antisemitism, homophobia and misogyny. The evidence is overwhelming. There are 50 Muslim countries, each one exhibiting these virtues. Being opposed to such an ideology is not "hate", just as being opposed to polygamy, communism or nazism isn't "hate".


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

olivaw said:


> In which country?
> 
> Certainly not in the United States. Blacks, gay men, and Jews - are the main victims of hate crime, in that order.


If you read upthread, you will find that while FBI reported three times as many hate attacks against blacks as against Jews, there are 6 times as many blacks in the US. Which means that probability of a Jewish individual of being the victim of hate crime is roughly double. You can repeat this calculation for gays yourself.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Just import enough muslims and then the Jews will rise to the top of the hate list. If I was a Jew, I don't think my goal would be to be on top of that list.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Isn't it interesting how "Liberals" on this board have no qualms about making blatantly racist statements, like "you are bad because of your heritage" or "you don't have Anglo-Saxon blood, so you can't comment on Brexit". 

Instead of judging people individually, based on views/ideology/strength of argument, they go after your wrong blood and heritage all the while screaming that you are racist.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Here is another example... MWC is a progressive website. Yet the level of racism this article is dripping with, is worse than anything I have seen from Alt Right. They list several old Antisemitic tropes, and supposedly they are "anti-Zionist", but claim that anti-Zionist Jews are also inherently bad. http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/62563-zionism.html

What can you do? It's in our blood. It's our heritage.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

The posters who are guilty of saying that individuals are "bad because of their heritage" are Gibor, mordko, wrapther and (to a lesser extent) New Dog. 

Gibor and mordko are the first to accuse others of bigotry. Gibor throws the term antisemite around like confetti at a wedding. Mordko tries to prove his accusations with logic that would embarrass a twelve year old.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

olivaw said:


> The posters who are guilty of saying that individuals are "bad because of their heritage" are Gibor, mordko, wrapther and (to a lesser extent) New Dog.
> 
> Gibor and mordko are the first to accuse others of bigotry. Gibor throws the term antisemite around like confetti at a wedding. Mordko tries to prove his accusations with logic that would embarrass a twelve year old.


That is, of course, demonstrably false. Not once have I accused anyone in my whole life of anything based on his/her heritage. I couldn't care less what your heritage is. What I do care about is the views that are being expressed and ideology that is being supported by each individual. And if an individual claims that someone is bad "because of heritage" then I will make a conclusion about said individual.


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## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

mordko said:


> That is, of course, demonstrably false. Not once have I accused anyone in my whole life of anything based on his/her heritage. I couldn't care less what your heritage is. What I do care about is the views that are being expressed and ideology that is being supported by each individual. And if an individual claims that someone is bad "because of heritage" then I will make a conclusion about said individual.


Diversity to the right means a diversity of character and ideas. The majority of people on the right don't look at things through a gender or colour filter. If Bob is a plumber who happens to be black, he's just Bob the plumber.

Diversity to the left means a diversity of skin colour and gender. If Bob is a plumber who happens to be black, then he's Bob the black plumber.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

> Isn't it interesting how "Liberals" on this board have no qualms about making blatantly racist statements, like "you are bad because of your heritage"


I didn't say you are bad because of your heritage. I said that importing cultural/religious/tribal grudges into Canadian society is bad and unwelcome in Canadian society. Some muslims do this, some Jews do this, some Indians do this, some Irish do this.

In all cases, dragging those old world grudges into Canada is something that hurts our society. Mordko, I don't go around denigrating cultural groups, talking them down and insisting broadly they are a threat, etc. *You do* -- you have a lot of problems with muslims, specifically. And I suspect that you are carrying a grudge, that you have brought into Canada. I say this because your criticism of muslims is so unrelenting, so passionate, so well researched, that it sounds to me like it stems from family values or deep cultural roots.

Canada asks (all of us) to leave our grudges and cultural baggage behind.

(Aside, are some muslims failing to do that? Absolutely.)


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Here is a video on utube, It does come from info-wars but it does give you a nice run down of the nice wonderful migrants in Germany.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-LhfKKgncg


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

new dog, very similar complaints were aired against Italians when they first started immigrating to America. You could literally take this video, change Muslim to Italian, show it to an American audience from 1900, and people would nod and agree, "yeah those damned Italians".

Go research the history of Italian immigration to America, including how they were hated for their crime and strange cultural rituals.

My point is... this story has played out repeatedly through history. It's never because a specific group (Italians, Japanese, or Muslims) *are actually bad or dangerous*. Don't be part of the problem. I don't want my kids to see 'new dog' in the history book, as one of those idiots who is trying to round up the Italians or Japanese.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Italians are Europeans as were the people already here. They were all Christians.They prayed to the same god. The Italian customs regarding women were not dissimilar to the other group . Italian women didn't wear burkas. Italians didn't engage 
in suicidal terrorist attacks. 

There is a great difference between a Mafia hit and a terrorist bombing of a transportation node.

The mafia killed each other for money . There purpose was not intimidation of the larger population.

Italians were part of Western Civilization like the others already here. Muslims are a part of Islamic Civilization and there is a very real clash of civilizations, as Samuel Huntington said. 

There wasn't a war going on in Italy with various factions killing each other as there is now in the Middle East.

Human behaviour is very difficult to predict. What happened in the past with the Italians doesn't necessarily have to happen now with 
the Muslims.

God will look the other way if we restrict immigration.

He will forgive us.

He doesn't ask that we destroy our civilization .

There is a limit to how much we can turn the other cheek.

Liberals enjoy suffering methinks.

Suffering is vastly over-rated.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

That was really good james, new dog the legend, I like the ring of that.

Germany looks toast to me when watching the very nice muslims do their work. Muslims are like fire ants running into countries and hard to get rid of once they are there. Keep the fire ants where they are and you won't have a problem.

White supremacists have always been here and are here, we don't have to import them. The left is importing their destruction and for the life of me can't seem to see it.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> I didn't say you are bad because of your heritage. I said that importing cultural/religious/tribal grudges into Canadian society is bad and unwelcome in Canadian society. Some muslims do this, some Jews do this, some Indians do this, some Irish do this.
> 
> In all cases, dragging those old world grudges into Canada is something that hurts our society. Mordko, I don't go around denigrating cultural groups, talking them down and insisting broadly they are a threat, etc. *You do* -- you have a lot of problems with muslims, specifically. And I suspect that you are carrying a grudge, that you have brought into Canada. I say this because your criticism of muslims is so unrelenting, so passionate, so well researched, that it sounds to me like it stems from family values or deep cultural roots.
> 
> ...


Here is the sequence:

1. I state that anti-Muslim bigotry isn't racism by definition.

2. You state that 1 is "very disturbing", that I carry a "grudge", that it's "uncanadian", that I am a racist and a bigot, etc.

Let's do a simple test. Above I provided a link to Richard Dawkins making exactly the same statement.

Did Richard's statement disturb you? Is he "unbritish", a racist, a bigot, etc? What is it in his background that makes him a bigot and unBritish? Should he have left his bigotry at home?

I would like to understand if your "heritage" slur and patriotic chest thumping is based on some kind of principled logical fallacy or if it is specifically targeted.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Bob Dylan said:


> Come writers and critics
> Who prophesize with your pen
> And keep your eyes wide
> The chance won't come again
> ...


Dylan's words are prophetic. There is a great deal of change occurring. The roulette wheel is still spinning and we don't know the outcome. We don't know if we will win or lose.

james ,you offer the analogy of the Italians with the Muslims. In the end it all worked out and they integrated into society.
History will repeat itself.

But there is another comparison to make. Maybe our post-Christian society will become like the Jews of Europe and will meet roughly the same fate. The European Jews did not have their own country. They were at the mercy of any tough
guy who wanted to abuse them.They were basically non-violent people who were adept at rationalizing defeat
and turning the other cheek and look where their passivity and powerlessness got them. 

Whites' fertility rate is below replacement. Whites are a rapidly aging group. Muslims and Mexicans are much younger populations. We need immigrants to pay taxes to maintain the social safety net. 

We may wake up one day and find we are a minority in out own country and don't control our own destiny just like the Jews of Europe.

The Beatles sang : Love is all you need. It's not true.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

new dog said:


> Here is a video on utube, It does come from info-wars but it does give you a nice run down of the nice wonderful migrants in Germany.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-LhfKKgncg




wondering why you insist on showing the standard garbage from infowars?

dogcom i've asked you this question before but either you never answer or else i've missed the reply. I've asked when you last visited germany - or norway or sweden or denmark - in order to personally update your constant horrifying condemnation of northern europe, instead off relying on krypto rightwing racist propaganda from youtube.

i've also asked you whether you have ever been to europe in your lifetime.

meanwhile, condemning non-white refugees in racist terms is not going to help in the least. What canadians can do is write to their members of parliament to reinforce the careful screening & vetting of refugee families that is actually going on.

have you ever done this, dogcom? have you ever engaged in a reasonable discussion with your local member of parliament on refugee admission standards? please notice that the conservative party of canada is also calling loudly for the immediate admission of yazidi refugees, on an urgent priority basis ahead of all other refugee groups. Have you discussed this with your MP?

.


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## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

new dog said:


> Here is a video on utube, It does come from info-wars but it does give you a nice run down of the nice wonderful migrants in Germany.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-LhfKKgncg


Current 55% approval ratings for Time's 2015 Person of the Year is impressive. If anyone can win a 4th term these days, it's Merkel, though it won't be a near majority as was the case in 2013. http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2015-angela-merkel/


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

People who forecast that Caucasians will be a minority in the future to the detriment of the country, make the assumption that all white people and all people of color are of the same background and culture and agree on political affiliations and beliefs within their groups.

This simply isn't true and never has been.

There are minorities within any group and minorities within the minorities.

That is just the way the world stacks up these days.

Canada always has been and always will be a mosaic of mixed backgrounds and cultures and nothing evil will occur from it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

According to an interview with a former head of immigration security, Canada has done such a terrific job of security vetting that it has caused some problems of it's own.

Among the 35,000 Syrian refugees admitted to Canada, many are young children who are now fully engaged in elementary school, learning English quickly, and adapting easily to life in Canada.

The problem is their older parents, for whom it is more of a struggle to learn English so they can obtain the jobs they desperately desire.

The government needs to adopt a plan that will aid the older parents past the 13th month, at which time all federal support stops.

Support for the older parents needs to continue until they are working and able to be financially independent.

In short.......Canada accepted older immigrants with young children and was careful to avoid the age group that Islamist radicals recruit from.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

What occurs culturally or politically in Europe or even the US, has no bearing or influence on what will occur in Canada.

If we learned anything from the Trump Presidency, Canada and the US are on completely opposite trajectories of culture and politics.

To compare Canada with the other countries is an exercise in futility. We are the masters of our own destiny.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> wondering why you insist on showing the standard garbage from infowars?
> 
> dogcom i've asked you this question before but either you never answer or else i've missed the reply. I've asked when you last visited germany - or norway or sweden or denmark - in order to personally update your constant horrifying condemnation of northern europe, instead off relying on krypto rightwing racist propaganda from youtube.
> 
> ...



This video was a good look at what is happening to the left as they try to wobble around the issue. The video also said Merkel has a 55% approval rating which is impressive as SMK points out.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Alex Jones' infowars are purveyors of conspiracy theories, fake news and skewed argument. Their videos are for entertainment purposes only. Any truths that finds its way into an infowars video is purely coincidental.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

The problem is CNN or mainstream media will not show you what is really happening in Europe so people will continue to welcome the problem into their country. CNN also skews the arguments and does these things everyday. If Hillary got elected with the help of the complicit media she would have completely destroyed the US and no one would know until it was too late. So they only way they would find out is through Alt media even though it has its set of problems as you mentioned.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Here is a case in point for you. I knew about the silver market rigging for years from alt sources and now it is proven true by the mainstream media on Deutsche bank and other banks rigging the silver market.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ds-alleged-to-show-banks-rigged-silver-prices

Never will you see a story like this years before when it was all going down. So the mainstream media will cover the whole story on immigration only after it is far to late.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Infowars/Alex Jones are crazy conspiracy junkies. It is true that PC and spin on CNN, BBC and CBC is pushing more people to really bad sources. 

Anyone counting people with different skin hue is intellectually lazy as well as racist. It's not a real differentiator between people but a dumb shortcut.

Nor is the problem with Muslims per se. The problem is with the ideology of Islamism/political Islam/whatever you want to call it. And with the homophobia, gender apartheid, antisemitism that come along with it. Not all Muslims support it, a few are actively (and bravely) opposed. It's like with communism and other hate ideologies with large numbers of adherents. 

Yet every day we are getting examples of how it brings hate and very real threats to Canada. Here is an example of institutional antisemitism coming to Canadian universities curtesy of Islamists. http://www.israellycool.com/2016/12...leave-during-holocaust-education-week-motion/


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

> Anyone counting people with different skin hue is intellectually lazy as well as racist. It's not a real differentiator between people but a dumb shortcut.


No.

Many reputable sources use race as defined by skin colour as well as cultural descriptions to differentiate groups which behave in measurably different ways or have different physical charateristics .
White ,Black ,Hispanic ,these terms were used thousands of times on CNN over the last year to describe how various groups of Americans
were likely to vote.

Here is an article from Pew Research which routinely uses these terms.



> Trump won *white *voters by a margin almost identical .....
> .....
> 
> *White non-Hispanic* voters preferred Trump over .........
> ...


There is now a new movement called Black Lives Matter . These people are using their own skin colour and background unite themselves. They know what the term means.

NAACP---The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Everyone knows what they are referring to.

Race and ethnicity in the NBA



> The composition of race and ethnicity in the National Basketball Association (NBA) has changed throughout the league's history. The first non-white player to enter the league was Wataru Misaka in 1947.[1] According to racial equality activist Richard Lapchick, the NBA in 2015 was composed of 74.4 percent black players, 23.3 percent white players, 1.8 percent Latino players, and 0.2 percent Asian players.[2] The league has the highest percentage of black players of any major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada.[3]


Most people understand what the above is saying using term like black,white,Latino,Asian .



These terms are used in scientific literature.

Racial Differences in Bone Strength



> The composition of race and ethnicity in the National Basketball Association (NBA) has changed throughout the league's history. The first non-white player to enter the league was Wataru Misaka in 1947.[1] According to racial equality activist Richard Lapchick, the NBA in 2015 was composed of 74.4 percent black players, 23.3 percent white players, 1.8 percent Latino players, and 0.2 percent Asian players.[2] The league has the highest percentage of black players of any major professional sports leagues in the United States and Canada.[3]
> 
> Osteoporosis has been defined as a systemic skeletal disorder characterized by compromised bone strength predisposing to an increased risk of fracture. The clinical consequences of fracture include short- and long-term morbidity as well as increased mortality. Several authors have examined data from the Health Care Financing Administration and noted that fracture risk, particularly risk of hip fracture, is higher in *whites than blacks* in both sexes; the most recent published data reported an age-adjusted annual incidence rate for hip fracture of 10.1 and 4.1 per 1000 in *white and black women*, respectively, and 4.3 and 3.1 per 1000 in *white and black men*, respectively. Other analyses estimated the actuarial risk of hip fracture of persons age 65 by age 90 to be 16.3 and 5.3 percent in *white and black women*, respectively, and 5.5 and 2.6 percent in *white and black men,* respectively. This lower incidence of fractures among *blacks* has generally been explained by greater bone strength among* blacks*, although differences in non-skeletal risk factors for fracture, such as falls, cannot be completely excluded.
> 
> Data from the Study of Osteoporotic Fractures (SOF) and the Baltimore Men's Osteoporosis Study (MOST) show that, in both sexes, *blacks* have higher adjusted bone mineral density than[/b] whites and a slower age-adjusted annual rate of decline in bone mineral density. Genetic, nutritional, lifestyle and hormonal factors may contribute to these ethnic/racial differences in bone strength.


Scientists intellectually lazy?

I don't think so.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Racial Differences in Bone Strength


More than that.... I remember reading science research pointing that Ashkenazi Jews (european) most likely to have certain diseases , and Sepharadi Jews (from Arab countries) most likely to have different diseases. and apparently this is same nation


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

new dog said:


> This video was a good look at what is happening to the left as they try to wobble around the issue.



newdogcom you are the one who keeps trying to wobble around the issue. You keep on posting one libellous condemnation of northern europe after another - europe is ruined, toast, destroyed forever by sub-humanoid refugees you keep on gloating - & then you post white supremacy extremist links such as this trash from inforwars to support your claims.

i did ask if you have ever set foot in europe in your lifetime. By your refusal to answer it seems that the answer is No.

if No, why then are you giving yourself airs as the ultimate judge & arbitor of europe's future? 

no one knows how to help germany in this hour of need, but surely the absolute least we can do is listen respectfully & refrain from taunting or jeering at germany as a destroyed nation. Especially when the taunt is not true. 

.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The same way, the USA is _not_ a wreck. It hasn't been destroyed by terrorism, nor by immigration, nor by refugees -- despite the whining of the ultra right.

The US has been showing some of the lowest violent crime rates in a long time. It is doing much better than Europe. It has suffered very few terrorism-related casualties since 9/11. Canada is doing similarly well.

As far as I can tell, the US and Canadian governments, and intelligence agencies have effectively been keeping the countries safe. They have screened out potentially dangerous foreigners. And given this track record of success, I resent the constant whining and fear mongering of the ultra right. I think they are a dark and unpatriotic bunch of people.

I also think the ultra right are unpatriotic because they continuously rally against some of the most fundamental values of western countries: freedom, right to not be discriminated against due to your beliefs, and civil liberties in general. In my opinion, these far right people don't love their country and don't support western values.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> The same way, the USA is _not_ a wreck. It hasn't been destroyed by terrorism, nor by immigration, nor by refugees -- despite the whining of the ultra right.
> 
> The US has been showing some of the lowest violent crime rates in a long time. It is doing much better than Europe. It has suffered very few terrorism-related casualties since 9/11. Canada is doing similarly well.
> 
> ...


LOL-the "violent crime problem " in Europe is due almost entirely to people like yourself and your cheerleading of the societal destruction.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor365 said:


> More than that.... I remember reading science research pointing that Ashkenazi Jews (european) most likely to have certain diseases , and Sepharadi Jews (from Arab countries) most likely to have different diseases. and apparently this is same nation


Exactly. At the same time Tay–Sachs is more frequent among Ashkenazi Jews and French Canadians; the two groups which are not genetically related to each other.

The point isn't that people don't have genes. Of course they have genes and genetic characteristics. The point is that there are no physically distinguishable races among modern humans. That is exactly what the scientists say: http://www.americananthro.org/ConnectWithAAA/Content.aspx?ItemNumber=2583

Yes, there can be common diseases between people with common ancestry. One isn't "bad" or "good" or "clever" because of pigmentation in his skin. In fact one is dumb if he thinks that something as insignificant as pigmentation has any relation to behaviour, brain, etc...


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> newdogcom you are the one who keeps trying to wobble around the issue. You keep on posting one libellous condemnation of northern europe after another - europe is ruined, toast, destroyed forever by sub-humanoid refugees you keep on gloating - & then you post white supremacy extremist links such as this trash from inforwars to support your claims.
> 
> i did ask if you have ever set foot in europe in your lifetime. By your refusal to answer it seems that the answer is No.
> 
> ...



No I haven't been to Europe and info-wars is not a source I wanted to use but the videos they show about the left are very telling. Of course they go off on their own way like CNN does but their stuff on the pathetic left is pretty good sometimes.

However how on earth is anyone to be informed before it is to late, if the media refuses to properly cover it?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

apart from the planned mass killing sprees such as Paris (twice), Nice, Brussels & Ankara, most of the trouble in northern europe is coming from young males who arrived alone - without family - & are being housed & cared for by the charity of the host country. Other even younger children also arrived alone. From these younger groups, one might also expect similar problems as these children grow older. The circumstances of their growing up will not be easy & in no way is this the fault of any north european host country.

no one has an answer to this problem, let alone a cure or a solution. No country wants to accept a group of uprooted, culturally shocked mostly male teenagers who no longer have any nation-state to call home. Statistically this group is likely to provide the most serious trouble wherever they settle.

no one knows how to help germany with her overload of refugees, but surely the very least we can do is listen respectfully. There must be church groups in canada that are trying to help, i intend to look into what they are doing & saying. Personally i would stop short of expecting canada to offer to take some of the 12-30-year-old male refugee cohort, though.

canada has been very strict about refugee screening, imho. I can remember stories from a year ago, about how experienced immigration officers were sent out from canada to man the refugee applicant desks in the camps in lebanon & jordan.

there were stories about how families that presented themselves with one missing youth or adult male member were automatically removed from qualification. The concern on canada's part was that the "missing" male member - whether a husband or a son - might be hidden because he was a believer and/or a practitioner of radical islam. In every such case, canada would not & did not consider an application from the rest of the family.

.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Clearly, Europe has a problem. As does Turkey. I was in Ankara within a couple days of a giant bombing so yeah, I know.

I'm saying that US and Canada don't have a problem. We have oceans separating us from the war zones and a far superior ability to control our borders. There is no reason for panic and paranoia in the US & Canada.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Also Madrid, Toulouse, New York, Toronto, Buenos Ares and many other mass murders, whether executed or attempted. Assuming that our security is invincible, with services themselves stating that a major attack is just a matter of time, is an impressive leap of faith.

Of course the issue isn't just terrorism. It's the Islamist antisemitism that our children have to face at uniserties and the general creep of totalitarian ideologies. That includes not just Islamism but the growing popularity of the far right and left. That's a reaction to pols ignoring the problem.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> People chanted "lock her up" at a political rally in Edmonton
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lock-her-up-notley-alexander-edmonton-1.3882845
> 
> So there we go. The pro Trump, possibly alt-right supporters are definitely in Alberta. Only fans of Trump would mimic his style of rally. The media outlet that organized this was The Rebel, a platform founded by Ezra Levant. He's a past Reform Party guy, and clearly has a sore spot for race issues and equality. Levant has also said hateful things about gypsies.


More proof of this just came out ... that the "lock her up", alt-right, anti-Muslim movement is also tightly coupled with anti-semitism.

Gavin McInnes, of The Rebel, went on a very serious antisemitic rant that shocked many Canadian liberals and conservatives alike. This is despite others involved with The Rebel being Jewish.

My overall point is: *this is alt-right in Canada*, and they are pushing a wacky agenda. These aren't traditional Canadian conservatives. This group has people that are very anti-muslim, anti-Jewish, and anti-woman.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Let me try a different angle on this subject.

So what do we do about this alt-right in Canada?

How can we push muslim immigration to higher levels without stirring the alt-right?

Are the alt-right more dangerous then the muslims we import?

Can Jews and ever increasing muslims get together to combat the alt-right?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

new dog, the alt-right isn't fundamentally about being anti muslim. You're focusing on the wrong thing with muslims.

They are also anti-Jewish, anti-black, anti-gay, anti-female. Even if you stop muslim immigration completely, it won't satisfy this group.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I don't know if you can paint all alt-right with the same brush but white supremacists are all the same I would think. The more extreme types would of course be against Jews, blacks and whoever you can think. The question is still what do you do about them when they are already citizens of this country?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Well I agree it's hard to label these groups accurately but I am calling Rebel Media an alt-right outlet because their web site looks a lot like Breitbart and Infowars.

It's not a "more extreme" person, but rather a standard journalist at Rebel Media who did the antisemitic rant. The first thing we have to acknowledge is that it is the norm within the alt right circles to talk disparagingly about muslims, Jews, blacks, gays, and women. From that point we can ask ourselves whether this behaviour is acceptable in our society.

And yes, there are circles in which this kind of behaviour is the norm. Where I grew up, there was deep racism against aboriginal people too. When I was in highschool, kids would drive by the area where aboriginal prostitutes worked, and threw handfuls of pocket change at them.

Just because the behaviour exists does not mean it's acceptable, nor that we have to live with it or permit it. There was a time when antisemitism was the norm in Canada too.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

For me it is more about risk and reward. I find muslims a risk that doesn't need to be taken. Lowering the percentage of muslims doing the hate, will lower the alt-right and white supremacists hate capabilities, as a by-product.

I am for getting rid of haters like white supremacists but it seems society doesn't want to deal with it. I am for caning to put a in a quick change to criminal behaviour so that jails aren't the main source of punishment. Of course hard core criminals can't be turned but many will and jail I think is worse then caning.

However that is never going to happen, so something else has to give. Not letting in potential threats is a good and easy step in this direction.

On another note I think bully awareness has made a big difference in our society and gains have been made here and the alt-right I am sure don't like it. Some muslims on the other hand would like to bring back the bullying through terror and they are just waiting to come to our shores.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Bigotry has existed for thousands of years. "Alt-right" is nothing more than a phrase used to describe the latest iteration of the same-old same-old. 

Politicians preying on prejudice isn't new either. Demagoguery is as old as democracy.


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## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Well I agree it's hard to label these groups accurately but I am calling Rebel Media an alt-right outlet because their web site looks a lot like Breitbart and Infowars.
> 
> It's not a "more extreme" person, but rather a standard journalist at Rebel Media who did the antisemitic rant. The first thing we have to acknowledge is that it is the norm within the alt right circles to talk disparagingly about muslims, Jews, blacks, gays, and women. From that point we can ask ourselves whether this behaviour is acceptable in our society.
> 
> ...


Jimmy Beach: You are a racist-you see every problem through a racial lens-maybe you don't do this consciously or maybe you were raised this way and don't know any better but it is what it is. Hitler blamed the Jews for every problem and Jimmy Beach blames white men for every problem.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

The growing political polarization as seen in the States, is definitely being felt here in Canada, as it is all over the world.
It's is exactly what world leaders want: start conflicts from within, to help lay out and promote their agendas (whether it be wars, economical starvation, etc)

A living proof in this thread.

We must find a way to unite our voices and become humans again. Maybe that's too liberal ?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

We don't have a problem in Canada. 

We have a small number of people trying to claim it is a problem. 

I think "highlighting" a specific religion, sexual orientation, or person for "protection" under the law is wrong headed.

We should protect "all" and people will have to accept that hate speech isn't acceptable against anyone or any group.

It isn't hate speech to challenge any doctrine that advocates breaking the law.

Let us not confuse the two.

EG.......if a religion wants to worship on Tuesday and have statues of cows on their front lawn, it isn't of any concern to me.

But if they also advocate marriage with underage children.........I have a problem with that part of their religion.

I think Canadians are smart enough to know the difference.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

sags said:


> It isn't hate speech to challenge any doctrine that advocates breaking the law.


Is it hate speech to say a doctrine advocates breaking the law when it does not?

Hate speech laws are wrongheaded, but hate speech still exists. Falsehoods about a group of people or their religion may promote hatred, even if he the person saying it believes the falsehoods. 

You can, of course, argue actions; i.e. marriage of underage children. Where such arguments fall into nonsense is when arguments about doctrine are made by outsiders who don't understand it. 



> I think "highlighting" a specific religion, sexual orientation, or person for "protection" under the law is wrong headed.


In Canada, we have passed a few _motions_ which acknowledge the existence of specific forms of prejudice. They do not have the force of law and offer no special protection. They are a signal to a minority group that Canada acknowledges that prejudice against them is not a Canadian norm.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Singling out specific groups for protection, sends the message that while they are protected others are not.

Spreading falsehoods about a religion or group cannot be eliminated by criminal statute. The remedies for that are civil proceedings and public scorn.

It isn't and shouldn't be a crime to be ignorant. Education against ignorance is the best and probably only defense against that.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

IMO, hate speech _should not_ be criminalized but some (not all) forms of hate speech _have been_ criminalized in Canada. 

Motions, such as M-103 do not impact criminal law. Motions are the government equivalent of a sympathy card. 

You're right, civil proceedings and public scorn are the best remedies against spreading falsehoods. Education is extremely helpful. Combat bad ideas with words, not coercion.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I grew up in an era when pictures of bikini clad women adorned factory walls, crude jokes were the norm, and people smoked while working.

I even remember my son playing hockey in a rink where people smoked inside and a halo of smoke covered the top of the rink.

Few people would go to work and start putting up the bikini pictures, start telling off color jokes, or light up a smoke.

There was much resistance to all those changes, but they eventually became the standard.

I also remember working on a high platform with only a waist belt and rope lanyard as protection. 

If you fell......you likely would break your back in the fall.

The company/union health committee introduced harnesses and retractable lanyards as mandatory.

Oh......the hue and cry against it, but years later nobody would go that high in the air without the proper protection.

Times change, people change............but there are always a few stragglers left behind, reminiscing about the good old days.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> the alt-right isn't fundamentally about being anti muslim. You're focusing on the wrong thing with muslims. They are also anti-Jewish





james4beach said:


> Well I agree it's hard to label these groups accurately but I am calling Rebel Media an alt-right outlet because their web site looks a lot like Breitbart and Infowars.


It would be stupid to call Rebel Media anti-Jewish


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gibor365 said:


> It would be stupid to call Rebel Media anti-Jewish


Gavin McInnes is a regular personality on Rebel Media, and he was the one with the antisemitic rant
http://www.canadalandshow.com/rebel-media-star-gavin-mcinnes-has-theories-on-jews/



> Gavin McInnes is one of those characters you sometimes find on the far right, whose pseudo-comic riffing just barely conceals the casualness of his bigotry. *The Rebel traffics in such personalities, who appear to be heartily welcomed so long as they primarily direct their anger toward Muslims*. But every now and then, it turns out that — surprise! — someone who makes broad, sweeping generalizations about members of one religious group also has theories about others.


Gavin's antisemitic comments received approving responses from the former head of the KKK and the neo-Nazi founder of the alt-right


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I think some of you guys, like gibor, appreciate the anti-muslim obsession of the alt right and lose sight of the fact that you are encouraging a group of bigots ... many of whom also dislike people like you


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

sags said:


> We don't have a problem in Canada.
> 
> We have a small number of people trying to claim it is a problem.
> 
> ...


Sags...I love your post although most younger people won't get it I think.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Gavin McInnes is a regular personality on Rebel Media, and he was the one with the antisemitic rant
> http://www.canadalandshow.com/rebel-media-star-gavin-mcinnes-has-theories-on-jews/
> 
> 
> ...


Watch Ezra Levant video about it
http://www.therebel.media/for_jews_only_the_truth_about_gavin_mcinnes_israel_and_the_media



> many of whom also dislike people like you


oh, yeah, tell me story that Ezra Levant or Pamela Geller are antesemitics


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I think Olivaw mentioned education and from elementary school and up we should continue to teach inclusion of all types of children. We should also continue the focus on bullying so people whether they are gay or disabled can feel good about the community and schools they are in. 

What we shouldn't be doing is focusing on a group like white people and saying white people owe society because of past racism. Every colour of people is guilty of racism now and in the past. Going after white people is a good way to increase interest in white supremacist groups.

Poor immigration policies like those in Europe is a great way to increase interest in racism and white supremacist groups. The left have done a very good job in increasing interest into racism and antisemitism as a by-product.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

sags said:


> I grew up in an era when pictures of bikini clad women adorned factory walls, crude jokes were the norm, and people smoked while working.


I grew up in an even different era. Never mind bikini-clad women. Having Playboy centrefolds posted was de rigueur.




sags said:


> Times change, people change............but there are always a few stragglers left behind, reminiscing about the good old days.


I sure miss those good old days. Sniff. :sorrow: O tempora! O mores!


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