# Canada's New Healthcare Plan



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Canada's New Healthcare Plan

From the "forgive me if I don't think about monetary policy" prime minister


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

m3s said:


> Canada's New Healthcare Plan


hehe, funny video. Loved it. Who knew socialism and healthcare wouldn't work together?

The combination of ramping up medically assisted suicide, along with getting rid of all those pesky boomers who can't get a family doctor that results in a lack of screening for fatal conditions, I think we can ensure a lot less pressure on our healthcare system in the future.

ltr


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> The combination of ramping up medically assisted suicide, along with getting rid of all those pesky boomers who can't get a family doctor that results in a lack of screening for fatal conditions, I think we can ensure a lot less pressure on our healthcare system in the future.


Shouldn't most of the boomers already have family doctors? A lot of them worked the same jobs for their careers and could stay in one place

In Ontario they aren't doing any preventative medicine for now. Meanwhile Ryan Reynolds is doing colonoscopy YouTube videos so I guess the wealthy are still covered


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

m3s said:


> Shouldn't most of the boomers already have family doctors? A lot of them worked the same jobs for their careers and could stay in one place


Unfortunately, many boomers had a doctor who was their same age when they were 30 or 40 years old, but now those doctors are all retiring. This leaves boomers like myself without a family doctor, and no hope of ever getting one it seems. All those screenings they use to get are no more. They will eventually show up in emergency with a problem that could have been caught early, but they didn't have a family doctor.

Myself, I await my demise in that regard. Your curious loath for my generation will eventually be realized. 

ltr


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> Myself, I await my demise in that regard. Your curious loath for my generation will eventually be realized.
> 
> ltr


This all seems very predictable and avoidable.

For example LTC will also have problems from a sudden surge of boomer clients - but nobody seems to realize or do anything to prepare. Such a demographic shift will have massive impacts in many aspects and yet there is no awareness or preparations. Seems like the boomers lack basic logic and planning.

We can only hope nature will find a way to repair itself in time


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## MK7GTI (Mar 4, 2019)

My family recently got a family doctor due to the birth of our son. I've never bothered to try and get one for myself. Seems like a hopeless endeavor.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> Shouldn't most of the boomers already have family doctors? A lot of them worked the same jobs for their careers and could stay in one place
> 
> In Ontario they aren't doing any preventative medicine for now. Meanwhile Ryan Reynolds is doing colonoscopy YouTube videos so I guess the wealthy are still covered


Colonoscopies are readily available in Ontario, the private clinics are fast and efficient.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Colonoscopies are readily available in Ontario, the private clinics are fast and efficient.


There's private clinics? What do you do self-referral and pay for it? I suppose Ryan Reynolds can afford it

I'm due for preventative health assessments but they aren't doing them due to backlog

An older person in Ontario said they denied him a colonoscopy - maybe you just have to be older than before


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

m3s said:


> This all seems very predictable and avoidable.
> 
> For example LTC will also have problems from a sudden surge of boomer clients - but nobody seems to realize or do anything to prepare. Such a demographic shift will have massive impacts in many aspects and yet there is no awareness or preparations. *Seems like the boomers lack basic logic and planning.*
> 
> We can only hope nature will find a way to repair itself in time


It's the politicians that lack basic logic and planning. And most of the politicians are younger than boomers. Boomers are just aging, like most people eventually do.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

MrMatt said:


> Colonoscopies are readily available in Ontario, the private clinics are fast and efficient.


A colonoscopy requires a referral. If you don't have a family doctor, there's no referral. You can't just phone up and make an appointment.

ltr


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

GreatLaker said:


> It's the politicians that lack basic logic and planning. And most of the politicians are younger than boomers. Boomers are just aging, like most people eventually do.


The boomers planned the issues we face now

Healthcare and public infrastructure is falling apart due to lack of planning

Everything is based on the election cycle


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> There's private clinics? What do you do self-referral and pay for it? I suppose Ryan Reynolds can afford it
> 
> I'm due for preventative health assessments but they aren't doing them due to backlog
> 
> An older person in Ontario said they denied him a colonoscopy - maybe you just have to be older than before


Yeah, lots of them.
I had one like a month ago.
I'm "middle age", it was an insured service.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Yeah, lots of them.
> I had one like a month ago.
> I'm "middle age", it was an insured service.


So like dental?

I didn't know Canada was already privatizing healthcare

Why are taxes so high then


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If people knew how bad it is they would be protesting in the streets.

I heard a bunch of sirens going off yesterday and opened the police scanner app.

They were fire trucks for a low income building, so I switched over to the ambulance channel.

A call immediately came from the dispatcher telling a unit to go to an LTC home where someone had fallen and was injured. She said the call was 2 hours old.

Go to the local hospital and there are ambulances parked out front and the paramedics are all standing around. What kind of system is that we are paying for ?

Drop the patients off in one area that has a nurse or two keeping an eye on them, until they can see a doctor..........and let the paramedics do their job.

What hospitals need is an emergency care clinic adjacent to the emergency room. Patients should be assessed in the clinic before going to the ER.

I suspect that many of the patients could be treated quickly. As a city with a big university and college population we often had young people in the ERs for minor reasons.

These kids are from out of town mostly, and have no family doctor in our city......so they go to the ER for sprained ankles or other minor issues.

Maybe the university should provide a family clinic for them.


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## Jericho (Dec 23, 2011)

m3s said:


> Shouldn't most of the boomers already have family doctors? A lot of them worked the same jobs for their careers and could stay in one place
> 
> In Ontario they aren't doing any preventative medicine for now. Meanwhile Ryan Reynolds is doing colonoscopy YouTube videos so I guess the wealthy are still covered


Some places like in the east, when doctors retire, they're not being replaced, leaving an ever aging boomer population to flood hospital emergency rooms.


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## Jericho (Dec 23, 2011)

m3s said:


> There's private clinics? What do you do self-referral and pay for it? I suppose Ryan Reynolds can afford it
> 
> I'm due for preventative health assessments but they aren't doing them due to backlog
> 
> An older person in Ontario said they denied him a colonoscopy - maybe you just have to be older than before











Private Colonoscopy in Canada · Health Vantis


The wait list for colonoscopy is high in most Provinces across Canada. Considering a private colonoscopy in Canada can be an option.



www.healthvantis.ca





Looks like $1500 ish as of 4 years ago for one.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> So like dental?


No, like a doctors office or walk in clinic.
You go, they do the service and bill the government.



> I didn't know Canada was already privatizing healthcare


Why not?

It's funny when I talk to my US friends.
To them "health care" includes all the stuff we have in supplementary insurance.
You know, PSA tests, eye exams, dental, drugs, physiotherapy, hospital room fees, crutches, slings etc. << all paid out of pocket.

I'd say the vast majority of my healthcare is privately provided, even if a good portion of that is Provincially insured.




> Why are taxes so high then


Because the government wastes huge amounts of money on non-essential things?

There is no drive to efficiency, many groups operate on a "use it or lose it" budget principal.

They also don't actually track healthcare spending very well, the departments are underfunded, and understaffed.
Not an inside knowledge example.. but here goes.
I know it doesn't sound good, but lets say your purchasing department has half the people it needs, they're dramatically overworked, and turnover is high. 
Do you think it's even possible for them to shop around or negotiate better prices? Plan ahead? No they call the supplier that can rush deliver those emergency supplies easiest.

Then when the public talks, they're all about "nurses and front line", not the support staff. 
Which is silly, the logistics and infrastructure is ALSO very important.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Anecdote from recent visits to Canadian healthcare -

They are understaffed and overworked and yet bogged down by archaic process such as fax machines and computer system/networks that freeze up just trying to input basic information. It's not that we don't spend enough he said they pay more for the computers than a gaming rig and get a crap computer and then don't cycle or maintain it, and the backend server seems to be crap. Probably another Phoenix Pay system type of contract

So just something as simple as improving their workflow, admin and processes would free up an extremely limited skillset to be far more productive and efficient

The way we manage healthcare records is a nightmare. US is ahead in digitizing healthcare but maybe we're letting them find the best solution first


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

m3s said:


> The way we manage healthcare records is a nightmare. US is ahead in digitizing healthcare but maybe we're letting them find the best solution first


Big problem in Ontario is that the previous government spent a lot of money paying their friends who never created the electronic health records.

My doctor uses electronic records, and gets electronic reports from the labs & testing centers... of course they're all privately run clinics.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

m3s said:


> There's private clinics? What do you do self-referral and pay for it? I suppose Ryan Reynolds can afford it
> 
> I'm due for preventative health assessments but they aren't doing them due to backlog
> 
> An older person in Ontario said they denied him a colonoscopy - maybe you just have to be older than before


In Ontario the standard of care for prevention is fecal occult test now, instead of colonoscopy. They will do colonoscopy if you are considered high risk. I know someone who has colon cancer in their family so they get colonoscopies but I got fecal occult test when I turned 50 because I am low risk.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

m3s said:


> Anecdote from recent visits to Canadian healthcare -
> 
> They are understaffed and overworked and yet bogged down by archaic process such as fax machines and computer system/networks that freeze up just trying to input basic information. It's not that we don't spend enough he said they pay more for the computers than a gaming rig and get a crap computer and then don't cycle or maintain it, and the backend server seems to be crap. Probably another Phoenix Pay system type of contract
> 
> ...


Digitizing healthcare……but, but, but, but, what about my privacy!

I remember at one time there was talk about putting your photo on your bank cards. The bank thought it might be a way to help fraud. The focus group testers freaked out!

of course, people have no problem putting their face on a gym membership card or Canada’s wonderland pass…….but the bank…..hell no!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Digitizing healthcare……but, but, but, but, what about my privacy!
> 
> I remember at one time there was talk about putting your photo on your bank cards. The bank thought it might be a way to help fraud. The focus group testers freaked out!
> 
> of course, people have no problem putting their face on a gym membership card or Canada’s wonderland pass…….but the bank…..hell no!


 ... I never once heard (at least in Canada) about the banks suggesting photos on bank cards. If this was "thought of" by some overzealously innovative banker, then there's the question - who pays for it? Don't suppose the banks are going to pick up the tabs for getting your photo (and where?0 on your debit cards that renews every 3 or so years?

And speaking of "privacy", there is no such thing as being 100% proof. I would be ever so happy that the banks would make-good (aka honour) their guarantee that their online banking systems is 100% secured/safe though.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Spudd said:


> In Ontario the standard of care* for prevention *is fecal occult test now, instead of colonoscopy. They will do colonoscopy if you are considered high risk. I know someone who has colon cancer in their family so they get colonoscopies but I got fecal occult test when I turned 50 because I am low risk.


That's simply wrong.

fecal occult testing has *zero* prevention ability.

There is an argument that fecal occult testing is more appropriate than a colonoscopy for screening and detection of some things. Whereas a colonoscopy may be more appropriate for other things.
It's a pretty good argument, considering that it is far more convenient and much cheaper.

But it is a different test/procedure, with different trade offs.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Money172375 said:


> Digitizing healthcare……but, but, but, but, what about my privacy!
> 
> I remember at one time there was talk about putting your photo on your bank cards. The bank thought it might be a way to help fraud. The focus group testers freaked out!
> 
> of course, people have no problem putting their face on a gym membership card or Canada’s wonderland pass…….but the bank…..hell no!


The only time anyone looks at my credit card is when I show it to the greeter to get into costco (My card is also my Costco membership)


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Money172375 said:


> Digitizing healthcare……but, but, but, but, what about my privacy!
> 
> I remember at one time there was talk about putting your photo on your bank cards. The bank thought it might be a way to help fraud. The focus group testers freaked out!
> 
> of course, people have no problem putting their face on a gym membership card or Canada’s wonderland pass…….but the bank…..hell no!


By people do you mean boomers?

I have my picture on my Costco card and didn't freak out

Credit cards are basically designed to collect/sell data on your spending habits by the way


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## Faramir (11 mo ago)

like_to_retire said:


> hehe, funny video. Loved it. Who knew socialism and healthcare wouldn't work together?
> 
> The combination of ramping up medically assisted suicide, along with getting rid of all those pesky boomers who can't get a family doctor that results in a lack of screening for fatal conditions, I think we can ensure a lot less pressure on our healthcare system in the future.
> 
> ltr


This is basically the news Americans are getting a glimpse of from Canada. Rationing and medically assisted suicide.


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## Faramir (11 mo ago)

MrMatt said:


> No, like a doctors office or walk in clinic.
> You go, they do the service and bill the government.
> 
> 
> ...


My wife is American and she was surprised when she found out so many things were not included. She got the impression from left wing news sources that in Canada you get everything paid for. And in some cases you do. I remember arguing with an Albertan who told me CPAP machines are covered. No they are NOT covered. Maybe in Alberta but not BC. You can get EXTENDED insurance that will cover it, but not MSP. She was really surprised how hard it is to get appointments with a pediatrician. And that dental is not covered. And neither is seeing the podiatrist, or optical, ect....


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Faramir said:


> My wife is American and she was surprised when she found out so many things were not included. She got the impression from left wing news sources that in Canada you get everything paid for. And in some cases you do. I remember arguing with an Albertan who told me CPAP machines are covered. No they are NOT covered. Maybe in Alberta but not BC. You can get EXTENDED insurance that will cover it, but not MSP. She was really surprised how hard it is to get appointments with a pediatrician. And that dental is not covered. And neither is seeing the podiatrist, or optical, ect....


Or physio for many injuries


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## Farouk (8 mo ago)

m3s said:


> An older person in Ontario said they denied him a colonoscopy - maybe you just have to be older than before


Guidelines on procedures can change with time as more data becomes available. Beyond a certain age colonoscopy is not recommended. The same applies for breast cancer screening.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Farouk said:


> Guidelines on procedures can change with time as more data becomes available. Beyond a certain age colonoscopy is not recommended. The same applies for breast cancer screening.


If you ask a privatized dentist they will say you need a cleaning/check every 6 months

If you ask a public dentist they will say 1.5yrs is ok but because we're busy/short staffed we'll call you next year


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Our healthcare situation in Alberta has been greatly harmed by our Provincial Governments.

Alberta was already loosing family physicians when our Health Minister decided to rip up the existing pay contract agreement with physicians before end of term with a view to reducing the compensation.

That action demoralized medical practitioners and served to increase the number of professionals who were leaving the province. It was counter productive inasmuch as it caused a big uptick in the number of rural health professions who we moving.....to points outside of the the province or country. These rural ridings were the backbone of the Government Party.

Next...just prior to resuming bargaining with the nurses union our health minister announced his opening bargaining position. No wage increase, a five percent wage cut, and pending layoffs. This caused numerous very experienced nursing professions to either leave the profession or take early retirement. Some took retirement, then switched to more lucrative casual agency employment. Others opted for different careers.

All this just months before covid.

Since them Albertans have been suffering from a heightened serious health professional resourcing challenge. To the point where some rural health centers are force to close on weekends, and in some cased during after hours weekdays, because of staffing issues. The impact on our emergency services...the ambulance folks, has been the same. Not low morale...no morale. The result...thousands of unmanned shifts each month and week after week of 'red' days with greatly delayed response times.

There is no quick fix for us. Alberta has justly deserved a terrible reputation in these professions and it has become almost impossible to attract talent from other provinces. The word has been our for some time. It is not just the pay scales. It is the overwork, and the incredible inconsistency in the Government's attitude toward the professions.

It will take years to counter the impact of these actions by Governments.

So, our healthcare issues extend well beyond Federal funding. For Albertans there is something much more basic at the root of our healthcare challenges. Mismanagement at the provincial level.


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## Jericho (Dec 23, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I never once heard (at least in Canada) about the banks suggesting photos on bank cards. If this was "thought of" by some overzealously innovative banker, then there's the question - who pays for it? Don't suppose the banks are going to pick up the tabs for getting your photo (and where?0 on your debit cards that renews every 3 or so years?
> 
> And speaking of "privacy", there is no such thing as being 100% proof. I would be ever so happy that the banks would make-good (aka honour) their guarantee that their online banking systems is 100% secured/safe though.


Photos would be great, with regards to fraud/theft losses.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ You can have anything you want as long as you're willing to pay for it.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

ian said:


> Our healthcare situation in Alberta has been greatly harmed by our Provincial Governments.
> 
> Alberta was already loosing family physicians when our Health Minister decided to rip up the existing pay contract agreement with physicians before end of term with a view to reducing the compensation.
> 
> ...


Having political govn'ts in power, that are inconsistent and hostile to our provincial health care system and workers, isn't helping long term. It has been the UCP causing this in the last 2.5 yrs. I have no faith the current political leader in power will improve anything. She is just interested in political survival.

Ordinary layperson has no clue the level of personal risk during covid, when at the municipal level, leadership in emergency planning in our city had to announce several times / month covid measures with our bylaw ..AHEAD of the province by 1 wk. it started. There were security threats to the leadership trying to keep public health safe. 

There is no excuse, no reason to ever threaten harm to a public govn't member trying to communicate and ensure enforcement for public health against covid.


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## Jericho (Dec 23, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ You can have anything you want as long as you're willing to pay for it.


As false as any statement I've ever read.


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## selfpropelledyyc (8 mo ago)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I never once heard (at least in Canada) about the banks suggesting photos on bank cards. If this was "thought of" by some overzealously innovative banker, then there's the question - who pays for it? Don't suppose the banks are going to pick up the tabs for getting your photo (and where?0 on your debit cards that renews every 3 or so years?
> 
> And speaking of "privacy", there is no such thing as being 100% proof. I would be ever so happy that the banks would make-good (aka honour) their guarantee that their online banking systems is 100% secured/safe though.


Well, one of the big banks did this for a while, a number of years ago- can't remember if it was Scotia or RBC. They took your picture in the branch and had it printed on your card when it was mailed to you That was before technology made it easy so it was not the smoothest process and it was dropped within about 3 years or so as a cost-cutting measure. I don't recall any client issues over it other than the time to get a card issued.
Tech makes it super easy today other than the time to visit and get a picture every so often.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Jericho said:


> As false as any statement I've ever read.


 ... I didn't see this reply until now. So what's so "false" about my statement, let alone "as false as any" ... which I guess only occurs to "you".


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

selfpropelledyyc said:


> Well, one of the big banks did this for a while, a number of years ago- can't remember if it was Scotia or RBC. They took your picture in the branch and had it printed on your card when it was mailed to you That was before technology made it easy so it was not the smoothest process and it was dropped within about 3 years or so as a cost-cutting measure. I don't recall any client issues over it other than the time to get a card issued.


 ... I can't recall either as I'm a client of both (still) ... for decades. So what "number of years ago" are you referring to? Can't be more than 50 years ago ... and chances of it being dropped was likely 99.9% 'cause it was just an "idea" pushed by some overzealous bank marketer... think of the "cost-cutting" measures taken that I don't dispute at all. Banks are notorious for that ... great example is the "paperless" statement in the name of saving some trees or more like ink for you. They want you to pay at least a piddly (for you) $2 per month (can't remember this includes tax or not) and yet pathetic of them... to this day.



> Tech makes it super easy today other than the time to visit and get a picture every so often.


 ... of course tech makes it easy - you can take a selfie and send it to the branch but is the branch gonna to accept that? So who's gonna to "take" your picture, let alone have it processed - likely by a 3rd party that won't be free to the bank either meaning chargeable to you.


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## selfpropelledyyc (8 mo ago)

Beaver101 said:


> ... I can't recall either as I'm a client of both (still) ... for decades. So what "number of years ago" are you referring to? Can't be more than 50 years ago ... and chances of it being dropped was likely 99.9% 'cause it was just an "idea" pushed by some overzealous bank marketer... think of the "cost-cutting" measures taken that I don't dispute at all. Banks are notorious for that ... just look at paperless statement - they want you to pay at least $2 per month (can't remember this includes tax or not) ... to this day.
> 
> ... of course tech makes it easy - you can take a selfie and send it to the branch but is the branch gonna to accept that? So who's gonna to "take" your picture, let alone have it processed - likely by a 3rd party that won't be free to the bank either meaning chargeable to you.


I don't recall how long ago it was - likely 30 years ago. In thinking about it, I am not 100% sure it was nationwide- at one time the RBC had 3 processing centers - which did not talk to each other. So it may have been done in one of their pocessing regions but not the others.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

That probably explains it. 3 processing centers that didn't talk to one another and concept was regionalized ... LOL. I can't imagine RBC issuing a picture id bank card for their Ontario clients ... even 30 years ago with its lower population numbers.

Look at how long it took (and still taking) OHIP to convert the red/white cards to the green picture ID version ... LOL.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

I realize this is no longer a thread about healthcare, it’s about photos on credit cards and other such niceties, but I’ll post here anyway.

A large problem with healthcare as I see it, at least in BC, is the gross overuse of medical resources because they are “free”. 

A recent BC Supreme Court judgment that crossed my desk contained this passage:

_[130] She has been practicing family medicine since 2008. Between August 2010 and September 2015, she had about 177 visits with the complainant. In addition to this large number of visits, she allocated 20 to 30 minutes for the complainant's appointments, in contrast to the usual 10 minutes that is allocated, and instructed her staff to book appointments of that length with her._

The case is about a woman suing her husband for damages for assault/sexual assault. Nothing unusual. Nothing unusual about the above passage either. Very routine. What do you suppose those 177 visits in 5 years cost the plan? Medical practitioners in BC have a “billing number” with MSP and they’ll get paid for an unlimited number of visits, so no reason to ever tell a patient they do not really need to come back. I say that, recognizing there have been a few BC lawsuits or petition proceedings where the issue was about MSP questioning a doctor about billing for more visits than could possibly be booked in a day. 

At one time, I had the occasion to view a large number of WCB files spanning a number of years. One thing that stood out was that many of these files contained complete copies of physicians’ patients charts. The notes of every visit over years. To see 20 or more visits in a year by a patient with no real medical issues was common. In fact, normal. The notes would show the patient came in for relief from a cold, from a headache, from a bit of menstrual pain, from a muscle strain, etc. All things about which a physician can do little and most would (or should) know that and not even think of seeing a doctor. But that’s not what happens.

As for the work-related (or allegedly so) injuries that led to a particular WCB file being opened, they all contained an F8 (first medical report) and a stack of F11s (physician’s progress reports). Typical would be a worker who said they hurt their back lifting. Simple and common back strain. Not much to be done but to give it some time, keep mobilized and maybe have the patient take some analgesic and/or muscle relaxant meds. Usually not even prescription stuff needed. But, of course, the patient would have to return every week or so, for a progress report. Also, of course, the patient does not really want to go back to pulling boards on the green chain (or whatever job) and so the patient will always attend and say “my back still hurts”. The doctor wants to (a) support the patient and (b) keep up an income stream by filing many F11s, so these things tend to go on for a long time, until finally a claims adjudicator asks the patient to come in and be seen by a Board Medical Advisor, who will report to the CA that the patient can and should go back to work.

I recognize, as well, the WCB set itself up to pay a lot of medical visit costs because it’s the old squeaky wheel getting the grease. A worker who does not make repeated medical visits will likely get cut off wage loss benefits. If they appeal, they’ll be told “Well, you cannot have been hurting all that much because you were not going for regular visits with your doctor.” Not relevant that said doctor could really do nothing to fix a sore back. 

Yes, all this WCB-sponsored medical treatment and attention does not come out of the provincial MSP purse. It’s paid out of the “Accident Fund”, funded by employers. But, in the end, it’s a cost to be borne by us all. 

I do not pretend to have a solution to all of this, which embraces not only cost issues, but must also have an effect on physician shortage issues, with the squeaky wheels sucking up an inordinate amount of professional time. Maybe a user fee of $25 a throw? Or maybe it’s only me seeing any problem with these things.

For the sake of completeness, and because I usually support what I say with references, where appropriate, the BC court judgment to which I have made reference is here:

2022 BCSC 1973 R. v. M.A.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> I realize this is no longer a thread about healthcare, it’s about photos on credit cards and other such niceties, but I’ll post here anyway.
> ...


 ... no, my last post was was the start of health-care cost-related as see last sentence about replacing the OHIP red/white card with the green photo-ID one that requires a renewal every 5 years for the purpose of preventing "fraud", thus, keeping health-care costs down for the province. I can't help that other posters started talking about IDing bank cards.

IIRC, that red/white to green photo conversion project was supposed to take 3 years but look how long it took - a decade? And I'm aware there're folks who still have that red/white card despite they have all the opportunities (ie. speak perfect English, know the health systems inside out, etc.) to get the green-ID OHIP card but don't. At this point, I can only "speculate" their refusal to convert to the green card is along the line of thinking as that special group of FreeDumb Convoyers if nothing else.

And then there're licensed healthcare specialists that can manage to see patients 24/7 a year like billing the healthcare systems (OHIP) more than $2M + a year. No wonder healthcare costs end up being so damn expensive....for everyone.

As healthcare costs-related to the WSIB's side, that's a whole can of worms. Your perspective is from a WSIB lawyer's POV. That's all I going to say for now as I'm sure another forum members (sags) would have first hand insight based on his son's experience with WSIB. Never mind about the continuous horror stories and treatments received by the claimants aka patients themselves as published in major newspapers/new channels that we read every day.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mukhang pera said:


> A large problem with healthcare as I see it, at least in BC, is the gross overuse of medical resources because they are “free”.


That is a problem, but cost is a real/perceived obstacle to some.

I know of people who didn't seek care, or delayed in calling an ambulance because of the cost.


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