# Why I left Goldman Sachs...



## rusty23 (Jan 25, 2012)

why i left goldman sachs http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/opinion/why-i-am-leaving-goldman-sachs.html?_r=1

Wow finally seeing an advisor whose had enough. Haven been in sales (futureshop) when i was in school i always i hated been to be told which products to sell vs selling what is the right one for the consumer. One of also the reason i'm scared of trying for a FA job possibly in the future (can't make too much selling index funds all day lol).

I've always lived by this line " If clients don’t trust you they will eventually stop doing business with you. It doesn’t matter how smart you are."


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I think he was pretty brave to trot all this out in the open, especially given that Goldman will likely sue him for it.

But I have to wonder how much of what he observed is specific to the financial services industry, as opposed to publicly traded companies in general. The company I worked for went public a few years back, and it's definitely not the same place anymore, the values and priorities have changed.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Some perspective, the average salary at GS is ~$400k/year. In 12 years, this guy probably made millions doing exactly what he tells NYT readers he's against. He'll probably never need to work again. A little hard to believe the words are genuine...

Love people's reactions though lol "Goldman Sachs used to be cool, but now it's all about the MONEY, man." -Hipster bank exec


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I believe the words are geniune. A lot of us endure things for years that make us uncomfortable but we stick it out because we're making good money or the job market is uncertain, whatever. Eventually things may reach a point at which the balance tips and you decide you can't take it any more.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Midlife crisis.. he chose the wrong profession... all plausible. well, I guess, on the bright side, he never needs to work again


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## rusty23 (Jan 25, 2012)

brad said:


> I think he was pretty brave to trot all this out in the open, especially given that Goldman will likely sue him for it.
> 
> But I have to wonder how much of what he observed is specific to the financial services industry, as opposed to publicly traded companies in general. The company I worked for went public a few years back, and it's definitely not the same place anymore, the values and priorities have changed.


same here i notice that we need to go after "big whales" i promptly replied i don't think clients would like to hear that


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

What I find most surprising is that so many are shocked that this is the way investment firms usually operate. When the compensation scheme is extremely vulnerable to conflict of interest, it should not be surprising that conflict of interest often occurs. However, I would be reluctant to make too much of a hero out of this fellow. He probably didn't work there that long as a manager or earn that kind of salary without participating in some of the practices he now exposes.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Spidey said:


> He probably didn't work there that long as a manager or earn that kind of salary without participating in some of the practices he now exposes.


Certainly he did, but some people take on the role of good soldier, sticking it out and doing the job for whatever reasons (money, loyalty, job security) until they can't take it anymore. Think of Al Gore under Bill Clinton. It must have been excruciating for him, and he did drop hints afterward that he spend a good part of those 8 years biting his tongue and keeping his head down while his boss made decisions he didn't agree with or failed to pursue the issues that Gore felt were priorities. 

I don't care what the Goldman guy did there, the fact that he exposed it is a good thing, and he will doubtless be a few hundred million poorer after the lawsuit (it'll be very easy for Goldman to demonstrate how much business they lost, in easily quantifiable terms, due to his public trotting-out of their dirty laundry). He must have decided it was worth the risk.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

This morning Reuters found another person that left GS after being shamed to work there, he has a job he actually loves now 

http://uk.reuters.com/video/2012/03...dom-revoluti?videoId=231744346&videoChannel=1


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

Financial Post's Terence Corcoran thinks the Goldman Banker's rant doesnt add up.

Usually the truth is somewhere in between.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/03/14/terence-corcoran-goldman-rant-light-on-logic/


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Yes I agree, usually the truth is somewhere in between. Terence Corcoran mentions an internal GS survey of employees, 'Mr. Blankfein said a survey of the firm’s 30,000 employees found that 89% of them believed they were providing “exceptional service” to clients.' What a shock!! Upton Sinclair had it right, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” It is human nature to 'believe' that you are doing a great job even if you aren't, how else could you continue to work there. I'm sure the survey was totally anonymous and uncrackable as well. If I were making a million a year in that environment I would definitely be criticizing management. I am sure Mr Smith considered all of his options before resigning and will not be out on the street begging anytime soon.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

GS is two companies. One trades its own book and cares less about clients. The other handles client portfolios. There is an inherent conflict between these two businesses. Blankfein knows that but ignores it in publc statements. They were fined and paid the SEC so the conflict is in the public record.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

More on today's developments from the NY Times:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/03/14/public-rebuke-of-culture-at-goldman-opens-debate/


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## Tom Dl (Feb 15, 2011)

Terrence Corcoran is playing the muppet in that response. The basic idea that an advisor at Goldman is not acting in the customer interest is just stunningly understating it. The more out there claims are that Goldman starves people to death in order to make a profit on commodities. Admittedly not a know your client/suitability problem. 

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/27/how_goldman_sachs_created_the_food_crisis

In Canada the point at which banking and dealer cultures met was another example of this kind of thing. The retail banking fee culture, and the comish culture needed to be blended in a defensible way. A lot of this was an attempt to create a customer centered culture, but it was done with enormous profits squarely in sight. Smart people, Goldman or here don't let you know they are sticking the knife in, they make you feel they are patting you on the back. So sure, if they are smart, they are going to make their phone calls sound like they are selling a benefit. And if they are super smart they will create a culture that segments various functions in an appropriate way, and prints a lot of money.

It isn't really clear who this guy Smith is. A guy who has hedgefund clients but is playing paddy cake with interns doesn't sound like all that much of a star. There is a major scandal on wall street every few years, and a major book. Michael Lewis has made a partial career of it. So what this was all about is hard to say. But that it is understated is the one thing you can count on.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

Whistle blower or troll?.. This one is from inside JPM: http://comments.cftc.gov/PublicComments/ViewComment.aspx?id=57019&SearchText


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## Tom Dl (Feb 15, 2011)

Well, you never know, but for an investment banker he sure is wordy... Typical guy makes a lot of pitches, so they get the point across, very clearly, and briefly. Most of them can't write, so that part is OK.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Goldman Sachs is no different then any other company. Do you not think that Starbucks ponders how much their customer saps will pay for a cup of coffee and is not desperately trying to figure out ways to get them to pay more. It probably doesn't cost them more then $0.20 to produce it. Does Lululemon management give a crud about their customers when they charge 5 times what it cost them to make the products they sell them. Has anyone ever bought a car lately and felt that the salesman was actually working in your interest.

I feel sorry that Goldman Sachs has to take the brunt of the people's anger towards capitalism.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> Goldman Sachs is no different then any other company. Do you not think that Starbucks ponders how much their customer saps will pay for a cup of coffee and is not desperately trying to figure out ways to get them to pay more. It probably doesn't cost them more then $0.20 to produce it. Does Lululemon management give a crud about their customers when they charge 5 times what it cost them to make the products they sell them. Has anyone ever bought a car lately and felt that the salesman was actually working in your interest.
> 
> I feel sorry that Goldman Sachs has to take the brunt of the people's anger towards capitalism.



I think the difference is that a company like Starbucks has a more clear-cut business model - you can see exactly what you are paying for. The trouble that arises with investment companies is that people are lead to believe that they are paying for a consultant and instead often get a salesman. I'm just not sure that a commission structure is the best model in a situation involving a person's life savings. A straight consulting fee would be much more appropriate, but also not likely to be initiated as it would be far less profitable as it would lead to the sale of lower expense investments. (And admittedly much of this problem is also due to the general financial ignorance of the general public.)


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Spidey said:


> (And admittedly much of this problem is also due to the general financial ignorance of the general public.)


like when people call their stock broker a financial advisor? That is like calling your car salesman a transportation advisor! Maybe we should start calling GS a fund advisor...


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## Echo (Apr 1, 2011)

I preferred this take on Smith's resignation - http://deadspin.com/5893181/bronze-medal-ping-pong-god-bravely-resigns-from-goldman-sachs


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

It was painful for me to read that article.

At $400k/year, you're nuts to leave any job. Sorry.

And what's all this talk about "not having time to enjoy life"?

If you make $400k/year for 10 years.... how are you going to tell me you don't have enough time to enjoy life? You could retire if you wanted.


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## bayview (Nov 6, 2011)

@kaeJ. It depends although the money looks good. But i have seen marriages broken and lives lost because invt banking in firms like Goldman can kill, literally. It is 24/7 and hi stress. One may not lived long enough to enjoy the hi payout


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

There are provable ethical failures that have happened at GS during a long and storied history. This is not one of them. This appears to be nothing more than an outbound employee bad mouthing his employer. It's not uncommon. 

Perhaps Mr. Smith is a relatively young man who is prone to thinking in absolutes. Perhaps not. It will be interesting to see if Mr. Smith seeks a book deal or a paid gig on a news netork.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5007&Itemid=81

Funny parody


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

Ethan said:


> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5007&Itemid=81
> 
> Funny parody


Darth Vader leaving the empire, very funny!


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## houska (Feb 6, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> It was painful for me to read that article.
> At $400k/year, you're nuts to leave any job. Sorry.
> And what's all this talk about "not having time to enjoy life"?
> If you make $400k/year for 10 years.... how are you going to tell me you don't have enough time to enjoy life? You could retire if you wanted.


Based on people I know in that profession, the feelings he describes, including the gradual disillusionment and realization over time that you're just moving smoke and mirrors, are commonplace. The public airing isn't. And indeed you don't have time to enjoy life while you are on the treadmill. 

BTW, he has been doing this for 12 years (not all at 400k of course), so based on how much he has been able to save up and what type of lifestyle he desires, he may well be able to retire right now. That's maybe why all the talk about how he's burned his bridges and will never have another job on Wall Street may be rather irrelevant. Maybe he wants to become an author or journalist. Maybe he wants to start a winery or whatever....but I doubt he has any desire to jump from the frying pan to the fire.


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## rookie (Mar 19, 2010)

more bad news on goldman:

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-...founders-file-complaint-against-Goldman-Sachs


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

houska said:


> Based on people I know in that profession, the feelings he describes, including the gradual disillusionment and realization over time that you're just moving smoke and mirrors, are commonplace.


Isn't the whole world smoke and mirrors, anyway?

I'm jaded. What can I say...


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

KaeJS, money isn't the end all be all. As much as I like money I'd choose happiness over wealth any day.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

jcgd said:


> KaeJS, money isn't the end all be all. As much as I like money I'd choose happiness over wealth any day.


Agreed, but it's pretty damn close.

At my age, it's different. I have no family. Most of the friends I did have are gone and changed.

You can always make new friends. A family is a different story.


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## rusty23 (Jan 25, 2012)

KaeJS said:


> It was painful for me to read that article.
> 
> At $400k/year, you're nuts to leave any job. Sorry.
> 
> ...


It's possible, check out "Monkey Business" those guys quit after a few years the hours and workload added up.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Really good to see Greg Smith making an ethical stand like that.
Also really liked the Darth Vader parody, hilarious!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

rusty23 said:


> It's possible, check out "Monkey Business" those guys quit after a few years the hours and workload added up.


Still don't buy it.

I'd jump at the chance to make even 1/4 of that at $100,000/year, even if I had to work 80 hour weeks.

I used to work 105 hours a week at $11.50 an hour.


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