# Macbeth is saying that the housing bubble is going to burst in Canada soon



## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Another "the sky is falling" prediction by Hilliard Macbeth, who wrote a book, (When the bubble bursts), mentions that when it happens,there could be a market correction of up to 40 to 50% drop in real estate prices, especially condos, and a recession that may follow. 



> In the interview, MacBeth explained why we’re heading for a pop: “Bubbles have characteristics that are very common – a period of rapidly rising prices, people telling each other stories as to why it makes sense, people feel regret for missing out, and the media gets involved in writing stories about the bubble. We tick all four boxes in this bubble.”





> The recent housing crash in the United States corrected prices back to the trend line, but MacBeth warns the same can’t be said for Canada. In order for prices to return to the trend line, they’d have to drop up to 50 per cent.





> Debt is also big part of the problem. His advice for people who have a lot of debt attached to their home is to sell and rent. His views on condos were even harsher. Here’s what he said:
> 
> “The number one advice would be to sell the condo, because *condos are a terrible investment, they’re not even an investment at all*. The houses are going to correct obviously, perhaps even more than condos, but there’s always a market for single-family homes – at some price you can always find a buyer for any single-family home in Toronto or Edmonton or Calgary because there’s always going to be a shortage of those. You might not like the price, but you could sell. *But condos, literally, I could see a situation where you just can’t find a buyer.*”


"He believes that if you own a house over an extended period of time, one aspect, the value of the land, will rise over time at the rate of inflation. However, that doesn’t happen with condos."


http://news.buzzbuzzhome.com/2014/09/canadian-housing-market-crash-pediction.html


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble!


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ LOL ... to buy or not to buy, to flip or not to flip. :biggrin:


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Spudd said:


> Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble!


"Fair is foul and foul is fair".
Hover through the fog and filthy air"........Act 1, scene 1. (..the witches philosophy on life)

and if it SHOULD happen...will the condo owners who bought at overinflated prices?..exclaim ...

'TO BE OR NOT TO BE"....*THAT* IS THE QUESTION.
whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The *slings and arrows of outrageous fortune*,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. "

"To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:"


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ LOL ... *to buy or not to buy, to flip or not to flip*. :biggrin:


LoL! A new twist on "Macbeth"...but you forgot to add.."that is the question"....


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Another prediction of a market correction as much as 25% in Canada's hottest housing markets.


> “After a decade-long boom, the so-called soft landing appears to be underway in most regions. We expect it to continue.”


http://business.financialpost.com/2...n-are-home-prices-headed-depends-who-you-ask/


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I could easily see a 50% correction, but I also think, after you factor in all the true costs, that home ownership is usually a very poor investment to begin with. Because of the leverage, people moving every 7 years on average, and paying in after tax dollars, people rarely even break even in a normal interest rate environment.

The only real benefit to a house is it's a forced savings plan, something illiquid (so they can't spend it) so it's better than most people would do on their own in terms of an investment.

For a true real estate investor, where they get others to pay for the asset, real estate is a great investment if they purchase properties at the right price, in the right location for the right investment strategy. Buying a condo, to flip, has it's risks...buying a condo across from a university to rent has a lot less. 

Personally, I'm looking for properties that are well below market values to protect myself against just such a correction...the fact that I'm finding them makes me think the correction could be even worse.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

carverman said:


> Another prediction of a market correction as much as 25% in Canada's hottest housing markets.
> 
> http://business.financialpost.com/2...n-are-home-prices-headed-depends-who-you-ask/


This article is from Jan 2013.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

carverman said:


> LoL! A new twist on "Macbeth"...but you forgot to add.."that is the question"....


 ... we know the answer so no need for the question ... :biggrin:


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## the_apprentice (Jan 31, 2013)

More noise is all.


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## Ethan (Aug 8, 2010)

Housing is ridiculous here in Saskatchewan. We have a record amount of listings on MLS, there are empty new houses all over the place (most of which aren't on MLS), and new condo buildings that will have 2 or 3 units listed on MLS despite having many times that many units in inventory. Prices are down a little bit and a few home builders have closed up shop. The crazy thing is the remaining home builders are still building at near record rates. There is such a shortage of labour that it is impossible as an individual to get a contractor out to quote on things like landscaping, deck building, shingle replacement etc. They'd rather deal with the homebuilders that can give them 20 houses at a time instead of an individual customer.

I need some work done at my house, we need a fence, landscaping and a new deck. I'm hoping for a correction to slow down the homebuilders so I can get some contractors hired in the spring. I have 40% down on my house and plan to live there for several decades, so a correction in housing prices won't affect me that much.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Great, now I have to watch a production of Macbeth.

I know, I know.........you all got it in high school.

I didn't. I went to high school in the US............and we memorized the US Presidents and the Constitution instead.

Did I say that I could recite all the US States in alphabetical order ? You never know when that can come in handy.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

In Southwestern Ontario, the only thing that went a little nutty.........were brand new homes and upscale apartment condos.

Used homes and normal condos.........didn't go up that much in price.

You can still buy a 1 bedroom condo in a nice building for $110,000 or a 1950s bungalow for $200,000.

We found out when we sold our last home..........buyers preferred a new home and are willing to pay more for less to get it.

I expect a housing correction around here.........will see new and newly built homes will lose the most value.

Unfortunately, that will affect the most indebted and those with the least equity built up, the most.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Ethan said:


> Housing is ridiculous here in Saskatchewan. We have a record amount of listings on MLS, there are empty new houses all over the place (most of which aren't on MLS), and new condo buildings that will have 2 or 3 units listed on MLS despite having many times that many units in inventory. Prices are down a little bit and a few home builders have closed up shop. The crazy thing is the remaining home builders are still building at near record rates. There is such a shortage of labour that it is impossible as an individual to get a contractor out to quote on things like landscaping, deck building, shingle replacement etc. They'd rather deal with the homebuilders that can give them 20 houses at a time instead of an individual customer.
> 
> I need some work done at my house, we need a fence, landscaping and a new deck. I'm hoping for a correction to slow down the homebuilders so I can get some contractors hired in the spring. I have 40% down on my house and plan to live there for several decades, so a correction in housing prices won't affect me that much.


Happened in the US as well.

Even though home sales were tanking, the developers were on the hook for the land and development costs, so they could either keep building and hoping to sell the units or walk away and owe a pile of debt.

They kept building right to the bitter end, as witnessed by half completed homes in half completed subdivisions.

It looked like the workers went out for lunch.........and never came back.


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## CPA Candidate (Dec 15, 2013)

The biggest threat to housing is interest rates and employment (or unemployment). The trigger for the US housing crash was interest rates increasing on sub-prime mortgages.

I really don't see interest rates increasing in any meaningful way despite the endless chatter on the topic. Inflation is muted, employment is merely decent and there is too much debt on the collective balance sheet of the nation. The last thing the central bankers are going to do is cause a crisis, so they will err on the side of caution for the foreseeable future.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

here in victoria, you can buy a starter condo for 175K and a nice newer 1-bedroom for 250K
that is *not* bubble territory when you look at the cost of labor, materials and the energy to move them


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> I
> You can still buy a 1 bedroom condo in a nice building for $110,000* or a 1950s bungalow for $200,000.*
> 
> We found out when we sold our last home..........*buyers preferred a new home and are willing to pay more for less to get it.*
> ...


Older homes do require a LOT of maintenance. 
I own a 43yr old home built in the early 70s with aluminium wiring and spent over $23K this year on:
1. new roof
2. new insulation (original insulation was inadequate)
3. New driveway asphalt
Last year:
New garage cement floor
Previous year:
New complete A/C
before that ..modernize an old 42 year old bathroom and kitchen to some extent
coming up: probably a new furnace as well..

and all of the other small maintenance issues..that you don't get in a new home..such as
squeaky floors,
replacing carpets/flooring
repainting the inside
painting any woodwork on the outside

With the cost of renovations these days, even if some it c an be done as DIY, the monthly cost of mortgage + renovations is getting to be just too much expense for most people.

The other thing I find more common these days, is that the insurance companies, ask you up front,
(when you decide to shop around for a better price on house insurance premiums);
What kind of roof, and how old is it?
What type of wiring?
What type of plumbing , and when was the last time it was updated?
A raft of questions pertaining to the age of the house...can determine if they even want to offer insurance on your older home, and I'm sure it is the same for any home buyers out there that buy an older resale built in the 50s to 80s.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

CPA Candidate said:


> The biggest threat to housing is interest rates and employment (*or unemployment*). The trigger for the US housing crash was interest rates increasing on sub-prime mortgages.
> 
> I really don't see interest rates increasing in any meaningful way despite the endless chatter on the topic. Inflation is muted, employment is merely decent and there is too much debt on the collective balance sheet of the nation. *The last thing the central bankers are going to do is cause a crisis, so they will err on the side of caution for the foreseeable future*.


The banks haven't always erred on the side of caution in the past.. and sometimes they do "misinterpret the economic /political climate of the day, OR what is happening in the US, or even elsewhere in the globally connected economy. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession 
Have all recessions in Canada in the past been triggered by central banks? Of course "not"! :rolleyes2:

I do remember one in the early 80s where real estate prices were very high, and the interest rates went up at the same time as a mini-recession hit. Some that had "overbought" their houses in an inflated market, and perhaps lost jobs at the same time found out that their homes were now worth less than what they paid for them, or their mortgage, still on the books.

Having no recourse to make the mortgage payments while looking for new work, some ended up "just walking away" from their homes. The banks had to take over through power of sale driving real estate prices down even further. But what
is one man's poison (loss of the family home), became another man's feast..with real estate speculators buying these
power of sale homes from the banks at "fire sale prices" to the large number of defaults..for sometimes even less than the mortgage owing, due to depressed markets, leaving the banks the option to go after (sue) the people that defaulted for their shortfall. 

From Wiki:


> During the early 1980s Canada experienced higher inflation, interest rates and underemployment than the United States.
> T*he bank of Canada rate hit 21% in August 1981,* and the *inflation rate averaged more than 12%*. During this inflationary period, *Canadians sought to protect themselves through investment in the housing market.*
> 
> Some saw an advantage to high interest rates through speculation in real estate and other assets. This increase in transactions was financed through borrowing and ultimately caused debt levels to rise. *Canadian firms, preoccupied with prospective investment opportunities due to high inflation, no longer focused on innovation and productivity improvements*.
> ...


This is an example of what can happen..not saying that it will happen (very high interest rates) but today, with so much productivity exported to China, and the lower Canadian dollar, the fallout from all this can be resting on the precipice of some other financial crisis.
And ...as we have found out in the past, these do occur from time to time..as market corrections etc.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Carverman,

Real estate doesn't react, usually, as a single market. Each house is an individual unit, in a varied marketplace so, while overall it may have a pattern, there can always be exceptions to the rule...unlike the stock market where the price of a stock is govern ended by the market.

I always get my realtor to pull the history of properties I buy and I can tell you that the scenario you describe of the 80's is happening today...just not to the same extent, and not caused by interest rate...yet.

The last 5 places I bought last year all sold for more than double about 2007 ish. The banks financed them high (an example would be 178k for a 1 bedroom apartment, a price that, while current market at the time, I thought was utterly ridiculous). The irrational exuberance of the time period certainly was driving up prices. 

Then in 2008 we all know what happened in the USA and the canadian market, while not correcting, certainly slowed down with a sudden jerk...and lending became significantly tighter. When these places came up for renewal around 2012, they suddenly must have been reappraised, and the financing was altered...the owners finding themselves underwater walked away...(many had some "creative financing" going on like putting the mortgage into the names of people who didn't really own them to get higher LTVs I suspect). Regardless, the owners walked away and the banks foreclosed.

Then the fire sales began...these apartments, which realtors had been pumping as "starter homes", were recognized by the market as really apartments, combine that with tiht lending, they sat on the market, and prices dropped.

There were entire buildings (not a lot, as the market was still hot, but developers tried to flip a building in a condo conversion and got caught by bad timing) that basically went into foreclosure and people wouldn't touch them. Investors weren't looking to buy as prices had been ridiculous for years.

This is where I came in, offering low bids on already low prices...and the banks blinked first wanting the properties off their books.

I'll admit that there isn't a ton of properties that fit this scenario, but there are some, even in this overpriced market. People think of real estate as home buyers, but there are also many speculators and gamblers out there...making costly mistakes. I try to talk many people out of buying overpriced "investments" on this board, but many simply ignore the advice...in the long run, they are the ones who'll supply people like me.

If interest rates rise, you can be assured, many properties will flood the market and prices will drop like a stone. Even buying 50% below market or more, I've set up an aggressive pay down of the mortgage...something I don't normally do with rentals, because I want that principle much lower for long term safety.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Just a Guy said:


> Carverman,
> 
> Real estate doesn't react, usually, as a single market. Each house is an individual unit, in a varied marketplace so, while overall it may have a pattern, there can always be exceptions to the rule...unlike the stock market where the price of a stock is govern ended by the market.
> 
> ...


I did mention that is the 'one man's famine (foreclosure) is another man's opportunity (picking up bank foreclosures at fire sale prices..in some cases. Banks don't want to be in the business of owning property..too many maintenance headaches for them as well as property taxes that they must pay in that case..(at least I think so and municipal taxes can only be delinquent for a couple of years before the county starts informing the owner (in this case the bank)
that unless the back taxes are paid up, the property can be sold at auction? or a tax lien is imposed on the property.

Renting the properties out, isn't always the best solution for the banks, as renters can create another set of problems and the the banks are not rental landlords to manage these problems.



> I'll admit that there isn't a ton of properties that fit this scenario, but there are some, even in this overpriced market. People think of real estate as home buyers, but there are also many speculators and gamblers out there...making costly mistakes. I try to talk many people out of buying overpriced "investments" on this board, but many simply ignore the advice...in the long run, they are the ones who'll supply people like me.


Of course. In any game, and real estate can be considered one, there are losers..and winners. :biggrin:



> If interest rates rise, you can be assured, many properties will flood the market and prices will drop like a stone. Even buying 50% below market or more, I've set up an aggressive pay down of the mortgage...something I don't normally do with rentals, because I want that principle much lower for long term safety.


As an investor, you seem to be more savvy and prepared than most. 

I was referring to the over extended couples with one or two kinds or the double income-no kids, that have acquired tons of debt, and perhaps go out to buy homes (or condos) that they can afford only as long as interest rates are low , and both are working to feed their debt and mortgage. In an unpredictable economic situation, and they have overextended themselves, reality bites where all it takes is for one to get laid off due to downsizing or the plant closing and personal bankruptcy becomes an option.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

The other thing that may trigger it is a special assessment for places that have "low condo fees" as a selling point. I expect that several units will become available in the building where we just had a 200k assessment. The nice thing is, the bank will probably have to pay the assessment as part of the sale as the seller is responsible for all outstanding fees. 

I know that several units are owned by "investors", as they approached me about buying their places. They however needed to sell at double what I came in for. I can see this assessment pushing them over the edge and into foreclosure.

Banks usually evict any tenants as they aren't prepared to handle tenants.

They will also usually pay any back taxes as they have more to lose than the price of the taxes. Also, if the place is CMHC insured, they really have nothing to lose.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I doubt very much there would be a 40-50% crash in housing across Canada. More likely a very prolonged time of no increases, and maybe a gradual decline up to 25% at the bottom in the most over heated cities. The market is high, but a sudden crash is improbable. People buying now are going to have to wait many many years to see their property value double like it did during the recent 15 years or so. Wouldn't surprise me if house prices were about the same in 5-10 years as they are now. So the crash, won't look like a crash.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

I think US housing prices had a national drop of around 30%, peak-to-trough. Of course, there were certain cities that were worse than this (I think Phoenix/Vegas/SanFran/Miami were more like 50%. But presumably the US had a worse low-end with subprime - I'd think adjustable rate ARMs, actual and effective fraud and so on would have created a larger vulnerable group than Canada has.

As for Ireland and Spain, both had huge amounts of GDP generated by construction towards the end (I think Ireland was up to near 20%, where Canada/US were much less), so housing bust not only killed prices, but fed much more into unemployment and recession than it might here.

When looking at the Manitoba credit unions I came across a paper which tried to model a Canadian housing crash (PDF); one of the scenarios was to transpose the US drop onto Canada. The 6 cities used ranged from around 15-40%.

There's an interesting paper by Morgan Kelly (and another), the Irish economist who predicted their crash very early. He had looked at a bunch of other bubbles and came up with some fairly prescient crash numbers based on prices, rents, and so on.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Pluto said:


> I doubt very much there would be a 40-50% crash in housing across Canada. More likely a very prolonged time of no increases, and maybe a gradual decline up to 25% at the bottom in the most over heated cities. The market is high, but a sudden crash is improbable. People buying now are going to have to wait many many years to see their property value double like it did during the recent 15 years or so. Wouldn't surprise me if house prices were about the same in 5-10 years as they are now. So the crash, won't look like a crash.


Yeah, I don't see a crash either. I guess that word just gets headlines.

Gradual decline is a better phrase IMO. Canadian banks won't be as panicky as the US ones as we have CMHC. The US basically cut off lending at its worst. Also, as weak as our employment data is, I don't see it getting as bad as it did in the US 5 years ago. The US FED ending their bond buying program soon, and potentially raising rates (maybe) next year, and how the bond market responds to these events will also influence mortgage rates here.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Two other key factors that I suspect that makes direct comparisons to the US less feasible:

1) I'm not aware of the Canadian gov't leaning on lenders to lower underwriting criteria so there's enough "affordable housing". Whereas when the bank CEO's were arguing they needed to merge to compete with the big boys in the US & Europe, the Canadian gov't said no.

2) There is incentive to pay off one's mortgage as it is not tax deductible as it is in the US.


Cheers


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

If it crashes on the East Coast i'm moving there!!!!!!!!! its already cheap there and a 50% off sale would make it ridonkulous!!


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Do you have a mortgage? or is your house paid for?
A couple of those things are optional right? the roof you need to do but the driveway? does it need to be done immediately? Even the roof - you generally have a pretty good advance warning of when your roof needs replacing - lots of time to watch for sale on shingles and if you could always buy the shingles one year and do the roof the next year.

If you were paying 1500/month in rent - it would cost you 18000 per year - so in two years you would pay 36k. If you spread out your 3 reno projects into 2 years - the cost could be potentially less than what you pay in rent (11500 versus 18000)
And then don't do any renos the third year whereas if you were renting you would have pay to 18000. There is some flexibility when you own your home outright IMO. You can make a plan for each year within your budget. To many people get caught up in the aesthetics (fancy counter tops, perfect lawns)







carverman said:


> Older homes do require a LOT of maintenance.
> I own a 43yr old home built in the early 70s with aluminium wiring and spent over $23K this year on:
> 1. new roof
> 2. new insulation (original insulation was inadequate)
> ...


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

What bubble? Where I live prices have not gone up in 2 years.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Two other key factors that I suspect that makes direct comparisons to the US less feasible:
> 
> 1) I'm not aware of the Canadian gov't leaning on lenders to lower underwriting criteria so there's enough "affordable housing". Whereas when the bank CEO's were arguing they needed to merge to compete with the big boys in the US & Europe, the Canadian gov't said no.
> 
> ...


Well they did extend the mortgage terms to 40 years and introduced 5% down payments.......and in some cases 0% down payments. They also allowed "borrowing" from RRSP savings for a down payment. But they have tightened back up a little the last year or so.

I don't think there will be a big Canada wide crash.......but a slow grind down in sales in a handful of areas......which will slow down the markets and could cause some price reductions. Many people will simply not put their homes up for sale in a declining market......but there are always those who are forced to sell. Divorces, estate sales, relocation for work, job losses etc.

That would be a bad enough scenario........with real estate and construction activity inevitably slowing down.

Around here, I think the only homes affected would be new homes in the higher price range.....$250,000 and up.

They are basically the suburb tract homes that young couples with families buy.

A full out crash..........would cause a depression.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Hawkdog said:


> Do you have a mortgage? or is your house paid for?
> A couple of those things are optional right? the roof you need to do but the driveway? does it need to be done immediately? Even the roof - you generally have a pretty good advance warning of when your roof needs replacing - lots of time to watch for sale on shingles and if you could always buy the shingles one year and do the roof the next year.


Can't do the roof myself. I hired a roofer that is good and paid him what he estimated. i didn't want any roofers to cut corners after last winter, where the drafts were so bad, the furnace was working overtime. it's been like this for 42 years since it was built..a $13k home back in 73,
so that tells you the quality of construction..very poor with very poor.. friction fit batts in the walls. some falling out. 
*This year was the year to do it*..no mortgage now for over 10 years, and had the money in my TFSA to do the job right. 

In the end, still had to spend a month myself on the leaking windows, with caulking and spray foam..the installers that installed them should have been shot on the spot for being careless and sloppy!



> If you were paying 1500/month in rent - it would cost you 18000 per year - so in two years you would pay 36k. If you spread out your 3 reno projects into 2 years - the cost could be potentially less than what you pay in rent (11500 versus 18000)
> And then don't do any renos the third year whereas if you were renting you would have pay to 18000. There is some flexibility when you own your home outright IMO. You can make a plan for each year within your budget. To many people get caught up in the aesthetics (fancy counter tops, perfect lawns)


I am disalbled now, and depend on a power wheelchair to get around. I have two power chairs, one upstairs and one in the
garage for Para transpo. I also have a scooter for shopping locally and enjoying the fresh air/sunshine in my back yard
or on the nature trails next to me..so the garage floor being redone was a necessity to be done this year, with the second
wheelchair. The interlock wasn't though, but I had a grading issue with the driveway, it wasn't graded properly, so water was
coming into the garage, and in the winter freezing underneath and heaving it. Driveway was a mess, and I use the driveway
with my wheelchair.

Overall, I spent about $22K on my place this year..but now, it is in much better shape than my 88 yr old widow neighbours, and when I go to sell it someday, it will be in better shape than letting it run down over 42-50 years. 

I would say to rent a house like mine these days in Ottawa, it costs about $1500 a month...that is $18k for one year as you say in paying rent.
I've lived here for 18 years now. Haven't done any major renovations except replacing the flat roof ($5K) about 10 years ago and some painting on the outside. (Cost me $121K to buy in May 1996.) Estimated value in today's real estate market here in my area..aorund $250K+ if I were to list it today. 

The rents have gone up since 1996.
Then I was paying $800 a month for a hole in the wall 2 bedroom apt in Kanata , before I found my place, but even if you take an average of $1000 a month for a two bedroom decent apartment over the years, that is $12K per year x 18 years..$216k, I would have paid out on rent by now..vs mortgage of $80K paid off in 7 years ($575 a month) with
the final payoff in 2003. 

I may have paid a lot of interest in the first 7 years of a 15 year mortgage, but even with 72 payments
over 6 years at $500 interest per payment, that's only $36K in interest (and maybe $5.000 in principle paid off which reduced the final mortgage payment by $5400 at least.

So, if I look at the actual cost of renting an apartment for 18 years *$216K) vs living in my own home $216K - $36K = $180K minus property taxes over 18 years..average $200) per year ($43,200), the net result is 137k that would have been paid out in rent otherwise.

Where did the $137K difference go?..well I didn't save all of it, some of it I spent on the process of living...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Times........they are changing though.

Rising home prices in the past were supported with rising incomes.

It wasn't unusual to receive quarterly cost of living increases plus a yearly general wage increase.

Talk to people today..........and they can't remember when they got their last raise.


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

In 2015 rates will rise at least a half a point. Then we will see what people are made of.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Times........they are changing though.
> 
> Rising home prices in the past were supported with rising incomes.
> 
> ...


So true..and the cost of goods and services keeps rising, requiring extending credit limits and more indebtedness.
Just go into a grocery store these days..for $100 depending on what you buy, you *may* be able to fill your reusable bag
but what is somebody with a larger family going to do? Inflation is eating away at their table too.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

carverman said:


> So true..and the cost of goods and services keeps rising, requiring extending credit limits and more indebtedness.
> Just go into a grocery store these days..for $100 depending on what you buy, you *may* be able to fill your reusable bag
> but what is somebody with a larger family going to do? Inflation is eating away at their table too.


Whatever happened to cost of living increases anyways ?

There was a time when many people received them every 3 months.

The UAW/CAW workers were among the first to negotiate for them........back in the 1970s.

Today, even they no longer receive them.

They were probably a victim of the "trickle down" economics...."cut corporate taxes to create jobs" theories....that have failed miserably.

The economists and experts that I pay attention to...........acknowledge the lack of wage growth as a major problem in the economy.

The ones who think further wage cut backs are a good thing...........are just blowing smoke, as far as I am concerned.

Corporations aren't hurting for cash...........but a lot of their employees are.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Whatever happened to cost of living increases anyways ?
> 
> Corporations aren't hurting for cash...........but a lot of their employees are.


 Corporations aren't hurting for cash, but they are not going to share it with employees either....corporate culture shift these days is part timers with no benefits...

"here is the work, this is what we will pay you. if you don't like it, you are welcome to look somewhere else, because there is someone else standing behind you that will take it.


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## Misch (Oct 18, 2014)

Ethan said:


> Housing is ridiculous here in Saskatchewan. We have a record amount of listings on MLS, there are empty new houses all over the place (most of which aren't on MLS), and new condo buildings that will have 2 or 3 units listed on MLS despite having many times that many units in inventory. Prices are down a little bit and a few home builders have closed up shop. The crazy thing is the remaining home builders are still building at near record rates. There is such a shortage of labour that it is impossible as an individual to get a contractor out to quote on things like landscaping, deck building, shingle replacement etc. They'd rather deal with the homebuilders that can give them 20 houses at a time instead of an individual customer.
> 
> I need some work done at my house, we need a fence, landscaping and a new deck. I'm hoping for a correction to slow down the homebuilders so I can get some contractors hired in the spring. I have 40% down on my house and plan to live there for several decades, so a correction in housing prices won't affect me that much.


Hi there, another Sask guy here, Saskatoon to be precise.

Maybe you are looking for an all in one contrator, but I've had no problem getting people out to quote for shingles, siding and the like. All within a week to do the quote and generally being able to come in within a couple of months to do the work. Though some thing like landscaping and desk my wife and I do ourselves.

That being said seems to be a slowdown in highend housing. My wife works for a residential drafting firm and said that in one area with million dollar homes, about 90% are unsold. Builders seem to be doing mostly spec homes and individual client jobs has dropped off as well. But that's all anecdotal... 

Another thing I noticed on MLS listings is a large number of million+ dollar homes for sale that I did not see last year....


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