# Career thoughts



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I am delayed at the airport and am do some life planning while I wait. Thought I would throw out something for discussion and just looking for different views. This is going to be long be ause I have a long flight delay.

I am mid career and have a really transferable skill set. I am currently working for public sector. My reasons I went into gov was for these reasons, 
-work life balance especially with two young kids at home
- experience in the public sector so I could be more rounded
- wanted to understand public sector and see if I could make a difference in to the public 
- got annoyed with my previous long time employer
- my intent was to stay until my youngest was in school full time (2 more years) and then go into full time consulting, I do part time now, on top of my regular job.

So here's what I have been pondering over...
I didn't think that I would be able to do the things I would really LOVE (like yes, but not love). So figured learn what I could, and then go out on my own. I have been leading a really great project in what I really like doing. The scope and challenges of this project is something that is really rare in my career, so am really happy for that. Being that I am a very long term planner, I am seeing the indications hat I will be able to shape this into a long term career that I would love and be able to grow. It also has the potential to reall make things better for the public and how we do things.

My conundrum is that I could build my vision really ino something that matters, but it will take a long time to see this through (7+ years). It would put a wrench in my plans to consult and also be home with the kids before and after school. It would also pay a lot less than what I could bring home as a consultant.

So here's my questions, would you stay at something that is really fulfilling and that you love, for a less flexible bu good work life balance, or leave to do something that I am sure I would like a lot (I tend to be optimistic and like most things I do), and make alot more money.

Just interested in how people put their priorities


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm not sure that either choice is bad.

I know what I would do, but I would suggest a few thoughts that could be considered:

1) Will you 'love' the current project for the entire seven years? Or will it just become another job after a while.

2) Is consulting really so flexible that you will be consistently available for your kids before and after school?

3) How do you manage things now with the full time job plus consulting on the side?

4) You want to be there for the kids before and after school. Will it really matter that much if that doesn't happen? You can still see them a lot.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

FP. Thanks for the insight. Curious on which one you would do and why. I keep going back and forth. I have a few a years, and know things will change, but I like to think about all the angles.

1. My project will be over, but depending on how I road map the strategy, I can get it to what I love. I just see so much potential, and it's exciting, but is a real time commitment 

2. I am not a 100% sure, but i Always have the option not to take a contract, and I currently get offers hat they want to give me what I want, so I assume this would remain true. 

3. I run a really tight schedule, and have to plan things really carefully. Also our live in nanny is a integral part of keep things together. That's one of the reason. Want to contract, is that she will leave when my youngest goes to school full time, so I want to not worry about child are as much. Right now, take my my bank time, and vacation, and work nights to do my consulting. 

4. This is I portent due to child are


----------



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I would lean towards doing the consulting. If things work out well, it's possible that the work could be pretty rewarding and will help make up for not working on the perfect project you are on now. I like making money, so working part time for a good hourly and being able to participate in the kids lives more would work for me.

As you say, you have at least two years. Even at that time, you could still keep the public job and see how it goes for a while, although that would mean lining up pre-after school care.

I'm a bit biased however - I just can't imagine being that passionate about a work-related project. 

Like I said though - I'm sure you could get either choice to work really well for you and your family.


----------



## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, personally, my goal was to get to the point where I don't have to work...so I looked into passive income streams.

That being said, you could look into the option of "consulting" to the project you are already doing. I know plenty of government employees who went that route. If you get it, you've got job security and your own business.

My question for you though is, do you have the personality to be self employed? It's not as easy as it sounds. I've got relatives who looked at me and thought they could do it. After a year paying rent in an office and sitting there expecting work to flood in, they went and found a job...Self employment isn't for everyone.


----------



## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Its a pretty damn enviable position to be in, PA. To not loathe going to work is something I am not familiar with. :tongue-new:


----------



## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

I have a career that I can take down many different paths. I'm now finding that the ones that offer the most personal satisfaction have the least short term monetary reward. That said, when people start to realize that you are willing to work for something greater than yourself your personal capital with them increases. I can envision doing what I care the most about at my job very well and having that translate into real leadership positions down the road that would be both personally and professionally (and financially) rewarding.

I have to say though, I have a great job and I recognize how fortunate I am (having worked damn hard to get where I am today). I have the option of scaling my work-life balance how I want it, providing I am content to deal with the natural consequences of straying too far either way. 

I think public service for those who are suited to it and can deal with the inevitable bureaucracy can be worth it beyond the paycheque. Just be in it for the right reasons. Making a real contribution to what you honestly believe is for the public good is one of the right reasons. Unfortunately I also see people that gravitate towards it to be a "person of influence", which (I think) is missing the point.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> That being said, you could look into the option of "consulting" to the project you are already doing. I know plenty of government employees who went that route. If you get it, you've got job security and your own business.
> 
> My question for you though is, do you have the personality to be self employed? It's not as easy as it sounds. I've got relatives who looked at me and thought they could do it. After a year paying rent in an office and sitting there expecting work to flood in, they went and found a job...Self employment isn't for everyone.


The option of consulting when I am done with the project wont be possible, as it will be more of a strategic management position for a program. 

My spouse and I have had our consulting firm for more than 10 years. So we I pretty much know the ins and out, and what to expect. I do consult now but just part time. My spouse and I always had a strategy the one would be stable while the other made the bucks consulting. So we at just stabilizing him right now.



Jon_Snow said:


> Its a pretty damn enviable position to be in, PA. To not loathe going to work is something I am not familiar with. :tongue-new:


I am very fortunate. That's why for me it's not a big deal if I retire early or not. The only reason I would not want to work is because the kids are a higher priority.



Maybe Later said:


> I have a career that I can take down many different paths. I'm now finding that the ones that offer the most personal satisfaction have the least short term monetary reward. That said, when people start to realize that you are willing to work for something greater than yourself your personal capital with them increases. I can envision doing what I care the most about at my job very well and having that translate into real leadership positions down the road that would be both personally and professionally (and financially) rewarding.
> 
> I think public service for those who are suited to it and can deal with the inevitable bureaucracy can be worth it beyond the paycheque. Just be in it for the right reasons. Making a real contribution to what you honestly believe is for the public good is one of the right reasons. Unfortunately I also see people that gravitate towards it to be a "person of influence", which (I think) is missing the point.


This is one of the reasons why i am interesting in staying. Before I was focused on the money, but I see in the future I can make a positive difference.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

PA
The fact that you did this because you had idle time seems to indicate to me that you are pretty happy with your current balance. I would stay the course until that is no longer the case...Keith


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

^i was actually just waiting at the airport, which I am now again on my return flight home. I am coming home after a short consulting gig, which i extended days for to me up with a good friend who moved to the US. Great point about the balance, as I was ale to take the vacation time to do this.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

When you want to return to the board as Sailing Along, then you will know you have it made!

Seriously, it is a good thought process. I was always willing to make a change and did so many times.

It is this receptivity to change that enables you to keep moving forward.
Keith


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I am really glad I wrote this a few years ago. Almost 4 years later, and once again I am pondering my career, though not at an airport this time. I thought I would provide an update, more for me and to organize my thoughts, and get some feedback.

So many things didn't go as planned. The original intent was working towards my promotion into the program I was developing and or moving into consulting fulltime when my youngest was in school full time.

In terms of my project/program work, it took a disruption as I was asked to work on another unplanned emergency project. The other project was one of the most demanding but fulfilling projects in my whole career. I had a choice to stay on the newer project which would be short term, or go back to my other project which I had put a lot of sweat and tears into. I went back into my old project because it was the right thing to do, and I was one of the few people who had the experience to pull it off. It was eluded that once the project completed, I would get the program I was wanting. Unfortunately, I learned a lesson that when everyone got shifted into the new project and new people were backfilling, the direction changed, but I didn't realize it. So after I finally completed my project, the acting manager (which should been my position, but I was working the other two), became the new permanent manager, didn't understand the direction anymore. As a result, I was no longer doing what I wanted, and did not see the same purpose. On the other hand, since I was not implementing the second phase. 

I have moved recently into a new position within the corporation. Again, work that I really enjoy. However, I finding the pace absolutely crazy. This group has the reputation of being one of the highest performing area and there is constant improvement in process. This normally would really excite me but I am beginning to question if I can keep up. I have to admit, its humbling for me, as I have always kept up or lead the way. This time I am finding that everyone works really long hours, and is working most of the time. Though work life balance is important, people don't follow it. I still have the ability to pick my hours, and be there for my kids at events 90% of the time, however, I am working twice long in the middle of the night to catch up. I am also on this team for a limited contract, so I find it challenging to see the long term. The only way right now for me to stay on is if I decide to advance my education which I am not sure how to find the time or if I want to get this job. There is a graduate degree requirement which I do not have. In the past, my experience has always made me an exception if it was a requirement. This time, they are saying is mandatory have the graduate degree to stay on. 

So I am starting to question if I can even keep up or want to, though, I still enjoy the work. I am wondering if my challenges in keeping is due to my aging, and losing stamina, or that my home life has become that much more busy.

At home, my girls are getting older, and I am working more. So I try and stay involved as much as possible. I volunteer and run some of their extra curricular activities, so that takes up on average three evenings a week. I also try and volunteer at the school every other month for each of them, or once a month in total. I am still consulting part time every other month too, which I will not give up.

Originally the plan was to move into consulting when my youngest was in school fulltime, and would be on the bus with my oldest. However, due to the school be in constant accommodation, and parents not knowing the configuration of the school and where our kids will go, I have decided that I needed to know what is going on with the school before I no longer needed my nanny (who picks them up and drives them). Realizing that the school can not plan their way out of a paper bag, I think before I determine I don't need afterschool and before school care, I will wait until my youngest can walk home by herself. So now, at least 3 more years when she is 10, I think I will be more comfortable with her walking home alone. 

In terms of consulting, I was thinking about it in when my youngest when full time, but then the school change its mind on the plans. So I waited another year. Then the economy took a down turn and my spouse was laid off. I didn't think I should be finding a less stable job when the economy was so bad. I am in alberta, and so I also thinking going out into consulting is not the right move. So another factor for me to consider is to wait until my youngest is able to stay at home, and for the economy to turn around.

So what am I deciding now? I no longer 'love' my work environment the way I used to. I find the pace takes away from those things most important to me (my family). I am able to manage right now, but it is under a lot more stress. I used to always have the mindset that I could leave and consult, and I see that that is not the right choice right now.

So now I begin to wonder if I should just 'suck it up' and forget about consulting, find a job that gives me balance where I am, (there is not a lot outside due to the economy). I am beginning to think maybe to just stick out for a pension. That is still 13 years. What I mean by that is, to take roles that I enjoy, but don't have quite the challenge that I currently have. Perhaps I am expecting too much. I want meaningful exciting work, but to me that is new challenging projects, at the same time I want work life balance for my family and stability. 

Maybe I should just settle for the latter. Thanks for reading. I may edit my thoughts more again later.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

nice update! i don't have anything to offer by way of a suggestion, only a comment to remark on how you've always been such a star career planner. 

Plugging you've always known how to sit back cooly & objectively, as here, & analyze your career path to date. You've always known how to skirt disappointments & recover from disappointments. You've always been pleasingly ambitious.

i say pleasingly, because you've also always had to balance career with busy wife/motherhood/family roles. This is an extraordinarily challenging pathway for most women. It's easy to write, but very difficult for most women to accomplish in real life. Yet you are one who has always pulled her weight in every department.

Plug i don't know how you will work out the current riddle, but it looks as if you've already identified the principal issues early on & thus you will be able to take all the time you need to make the right decisions. Best wishes.

PS keeping nanny until the littlest one is 2-3 years older is probably a good idea! one thing at a time ...

PPS i do have a small suggestion after all. Can your husband bring home a fine champagne. Brut. Put it on ice. This evening, both of you toast yourselves

.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words. I think my thoughts have come from the fact that right now I am challenged in finding the balance I need. 

I have moved into a higher more demanding position. It's exciting and challenging at the same but the learning curve is steep, and I was expected to hit the ground running before I even started. There have been constant changes to my work and more keeps getting added, while I keep losing resources. Being it's a higher profile position, failing is even less of an option. 

At the same, I lead both of my girls team, we have a new person who is learning the ropes, and is not learning quite as quickly, so I end up picking up the extra work and coach not only the kids but the leader. The other person gets overwhelmed easily. As a result I need to take on more. unfortunately, if I don't, it puts the group at risk for cancellation. Where I would spend maybe up to three nights volunteering, it's now sometimes 5 nights week. I have found other solutions, but it will take time to get the group in order. 

As a result of these two major challenges I am much more short tempered with my kids, and not spending as much quality time. This leads to my last post of perhaps this is unsustainable, or perhaps, I just a little overwhelmed myself. Perhaps with the near purchase or a new home (which I am thankful fell through), and all that is going on, it may not be work, it perhaps it's one of those blips that just seems worst than it really is. 

Thanks for the vent everyone. I think this post helps me put a little more perspective. I will see if I have it under control in the next couple of months. In the new year, hopefully at least the kids activities will calm down and perhaps I will have a better grasp of work.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

So another update, or just a time to reflect. I am nearing the end of a long, much needed vacation. I enjoyed my vacation and time with my family very much. Prior to this, I had been working 70-80 hour weeks, and missing some of my kids activities. I think I lost much of the balance that I strive for. At the same time, I was offered my position permanently, which is actually quite amazing since i didn't have the higher education qualifications. 

I need to make a decision in the next couple of months. I can keep my current position or my old position was held for me. 

A. Take the current position permanently
Pros
- the work is very interesting and I can make a real difference
- the people including boss is great. There is minimal politics, and I really like them all. There isn't a single person I don't trust
- there is much larger potential to be promoted, and it is a highly visible position by senior management. This s considered one of the highest performing teams around. 
Cons
- the pace is insane, I have missed several of my kids things and don't see them at night often. I attributed this to be new and learning, but it's always like this, and I don't see it getting much better.
- it is a stressful job, rewarding but stressful, I question if this is taking my energies away from something more important, my family. 
- I don't seem to have the balance any more.
- Usually, when I leave a vacation, I am excited to get back to work, right now, though I should feel refreshed, I am dreading the amount of work there is.

B. Go back to my old position
pros
- biggest pro is the work life balance. The is probably the only major pro as I get to work 9-5 hours and do my other things.

Cons. 
It pays less, not much less, but I am at the top of this pay grDe, so no raises. So after a year about a ten percent difference. 
the management is much weaker, and there is a lot of politics and infighting. It's a much more negative environment. Like some f the people, but don't trust all of them. 
Less work stress,it more political stress
The work is easy and less fullfilling. Though I tend find the positive in most things I do.
I will become complacent in an average work environment. 


Consulting is always in the horizon, but right now, the economy doesn't lend itself to it as much. 

So what do I do. Take the awesome, stressful, higher paying job, at the lost of time with my family, or go back to the familiar easier job, in an environment I don't like, in order to take care of my family.

IF I didn't have kids, it would be hands down the first job, hard work doesn't bother me, but I find I only have so much energy. 

Thoughts?


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Option A.

I agree work life balance is important but this is something that can be managed yourself, especially if happy and motivated, unlike being forced to live with negative external factors and low morale.

One thing I have learned is unless you are on shift or paid by the hour, you can always get things done in less time. Imagine the boss comes in and moves a deadline to this afternoon.. you drop the small talk and coffee breaks, kick into high gear and get it done, don't you?

Things can always be done in less time, it's just a matter of shaving off the less important time consumers. You can easily spend 80% of your time trying to get the last 20% of perfection that doesn't even matter in the grand scheme.

I would jump on option A and settle in for awhile before trying to introduce my own creative ways to make the team more efficient. I would take it as a personal challenge to achieve the same effects with less time, energy and resources.

I often find that if you want something done fast, you give it to the a busy person like a parent. I don't have kids but I think most respect that family obligations always take priority over work

Never settle for B


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> Things can always be done in less time, it's just a matter of shaving off the less important time consumers. You can easily spend 80% of your time trying to get the last 20% of perfection that doesn't even matter in the grand scheme.


I agree that it can be handled by shaving off corners and doing increasingly sloppy work. However, if you are in a constant time crunch and have to always be trimming more and more, you may get to a situation where you are just dissatisfied with the quality of work you produce -- and that's not good either.

This happened in my last Toronto office. The higher management kept pushing our office to "work faster", so we did ... constantly ignoring more and more details. After about 3 years of that, our product was absolute crap. It was broken, useless, and the higher management fired the lower management and many employees were laid off.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I agree that it can be handled by shaving off corners and doing increasingly sloppy work. However, if you are in a constant time crunch and have to always be trimming more and more, you may get to a situation where you are just dissatisfied with the quality of work you produce -- and that's not good either.
> 
> This happened in my last Toronto office. The higher management kept pushing our office to "work faster", so we did ... constantly ignoring more and more details. After about 3 years of that, our product was absolute crap. It was broken, useless, and the higher management fired the lower management and many employees were laid off.



some people are unusual in that they thrive on deadlines, emergencies, problems, setbacks, disasters & crises. They become more focused, faster, more efficient. Most surprising of all is that they become more accurate. M3s seems to be one of these.

.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> some people are unusual in that they thrive on deadlines, emergencies, problems, setbacks, disasters & crises. They become more focused, faster, more efficient. Most surprising of all is that they become more accurate. M3s seems to be one of these.


Sure, but only up to a point. This cannot be pushed infinitely far. It's hard to compare one person's case to another though.

I just remember hearing this a lot from our upper management as they tried to justify the demand to "work faster". They said there are always ways to be faster and more efficient without compromising on quality.

They were wrong. They destroyed the company.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Option A.

Plug this sounds like the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. They want you so bad they've even waiived the education requirement.

look how you describe your option A co-workers. They are the dream team. You'll probably never find it again. Many/most situations are as draining as what you've described with co-workers under option B.

option A is worth taking just for the experience of being on the dream team. 

among option A optimizers, surely your kids have reached ages where they can manage with less of Mom. Can your husband fill in as Parent-in-chief? some families would actually thrive on this arrangement.

still on the family theme, had you considered the kind of role modelling you'd be setting for your daughters? they are old enough now to know & to cherish their mother's importance to the community.

in another option A optimizer, is there any spot where you could carve out a bit of freeway as a busy mother. Obviously not with time & productivity, but surely there would be grace abounding for a working mother in some sector of the offered new permanent job. I'm saying this because i believe the big nobs deeply desire to put you in this position, so there wlll be some negotiation flexibility when you get to the table. Perhaps an extra week or two of vacation time.

in yet another option A optimizer, m3s suggests Learn to work faster. Be more productive on less time, says mode. He personally would take it as a challenge to meet, he adds.

Plug whatever the choice that you make, mille félicitations to you. It's win/win all the way.


.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I just remember hearing this a lot from our upper management as they tried to justify the demand to "work faster". They said there are always ways to be faster and more efficient without compromising on quality.


I believe this to be true. Imagine your highest state of motivation possible, a literal fire under your a$$, you would suddenly accomplish things faster than you knew was possible. Good leadership and good team creates synergies, but that fire sets the pace.

When you subconciously have more time you will often use it. Once in a habit of working 70-80 hrs it becomes the norm. It's hard to reverse the culture trap of working 70-80 hrs as is typical in NA especially when everyone banks on their overtime premiums.

Achieving more in less time can expend just as much if not more energy though. In that case you probably need to negotiate time off. It certainly seems reasonable especially when you have other priorities and the rest of the team may even want the same


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

m3s said:


> ...When you subconsiously have more time you will often use it. Once in a habit of working 70-80 hrs it becomes the norm. It's hard to reverse the culture trap of working 70-80 hrs as is typical in NA especially when everyone banks on their overtime premiums.
> 
> Achieving more in less time can expend just as much if not more energy though. In that case you probably need to negotiate time off. It certainly seems reasonable especially when you have other priorities and the rest of the team may even want the same


At one stage I was managing a group where overtime was endemic and a morale problem. We established how long it took the best performers to get certain work done (X) and then would say when assigning such work, this is a 1.5X job. We would also leave work on time to set the example. Problem got solved.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for the inputs so far. This is a really tough decision for me, as I have never been one to settle. However, I do need to add more context.

I do think bu keeping job A, I will have to give up a lot of things that I enjoy outside of work, most important my volunteer time with my girls activities, watching their games etc. This work, the deadlines are more than tight, usually when I come up with my first estimate, which I am usually pretty good at, it will get cut by half, and then something gets added into the he scope that we cannot say no to. This leads me working from about 7am to 10 at night at least 3 nights a week, plus me working weekends. I don't have coffee often, unless it's my lunch or meal, and haven't been having meals. I resorted to a mini corock pot at my desk, so I didn't eat vending machine dinners and lunches. I have had to cancel on my kids activities at the last minute. This is all do to sr management meetings and presentations I am trying to be ready. I have tried to cut out less important work, but my boss has had me redo it. I have actually ticked off some VPs because I couldn't deliver what my boss had promised. There has been huge turnover on the team, some stress, some opportunity related. The current situation is extremely stressful, where I have broken down in tears over sheer exhaustion or frustration. 

HOWEVER, I do Believe part of this is because we have been making changes, and I got caught in the transition. The changes we are making, I believe are good changes, but I have been told by my coworkers the team is in a constant state of changes and improvement. I usually like this, except, the changes take time to think thorough, which I don't have because of the work load. I do believe things will settle but it will take another year or two at least. In the meantime, if I take this job, I do think I would have to devote MY whole time to it, with very little left to my family and other activities. I would have to considered resigning from my volunteer work, and have noticed my house is starting to fall apart a little, even with my spouse trying to keep things going. Appointments need to be rescheduled for the kids because we both have a meeting we can't miss. He is also entering a crazy work time for a while. 

So when I put it this way, why would I take job A? I think it comes down to how long am I willing to put my personal life to the side for work. Is interesting, meanful work, more important temporarily than family? For how long? Sorry for the rambling, this is been a really difficult decision, My pride and ego, say suck it up and rise to the challenge, my heart says that my kids though they are handling well, are the ones that are suffering. 

Side note on my kids, my oldest called at 10pm to check on me. She hadn't heard from me and was worried. She told me she tucked I. Her little sister, made sure she bunched and had her stiff ready for school. She packed up all the food and separated a container for me so I could eat as quickly as possible. Her wish was that I would give her a kiss even if she was a sleep. So I know I am doing something right.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> Thanks for the inputs so far. This is a really tough decision for me, as I have never been one to settle. However, I do need to add more context ... this is been a really difficult decision




Plug it's fairly easy to see where you seem to be going with this & like i mentioned, whichever decision you eventually do make will be the most perfect ace decision for yourself. Heads you'll win. Tails you'll win.

but here is another cliche to add to the melting pot. How about having your cake & keeping it too. You could stay with option B but indicate clearly to management that your decision is due to family constraints at the present time & the heavy responsibilities you're carrying for your young children right now. Make sure that management understands that you would be interested in a similar challenging position once your children have grown older. In effect, you would be merely postponing your choice between an option A & an option B, to a time when the girls might be away at college or even (imagine this!) working in another city.

i think the fact that your husband is right now "entering a crazy work time for a while" is an important factor. If he were in a mellow period & could take up the slack at home, the situation would be different. But he isn't. It's too hard on a family for both parents to be professionally stressed 24/7, imho.


.


----------



## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

For Option A, the biggest question for me would be sustainability. There's no way that I would agree to do that for an indefinite period of time. It's one thing if there's end in sight (eg. quarter end, year end), but it's another when it becomes the MO. For them to say it will take a year or two means that it will take 3-4 or never. On a per hour basis, you're probably making less money than option B - never mind the social/family loss. I'd go with option B and look for another job somewhere else or just hold out until an option C appears within the same company.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Some more reflection (so random thoughts) and a little update.


I returned backed to work after a little time off. It has been busy but less crazy. I know I am in the calm before the storm. 
My previous boss (option b) asked to meet with me to see what my intentions are. Especially if I am planning to return. She would like the know soon, as they cannot hold my postition much longer. 

After our conversation, I realize there are still many parts I still enjoy, but will not be growing much in terms of my learning. I am really good at what I did. I still miss parts of it though. The politics are still there, and I know if I go back, it will be my biggest source of stress. It's not to say that everyone is like that, but I am not one for drama. 

For Option A, I have been really trying to evaluate it obejectively. There are actually quite a few parts I don't like, or more accurately it's not my strongest point. I don't think they will change, and I know I could overcome it, However it will take a lot of time. I still think I can learn a lot, but I find even though my hours are currently manageable, that will change in minute. I feel that because I am out of my comfort zone, I am constantly thinking about work even at nights and on weekends. I am constantly on. This would have been a great job for me prekids, but right now, I find I feel guilty leaving at a reasonable hour, which is still much later than option B. I also have realized that one of the reasons I want to stay in this job is strictly to do with ego, Thanks to another thread on here. I have been On Really difficult projects, and have always eventually come through. I have always left when I felt that I was finished. In this case, I feel if I leave then I have failed. That's actually why I don't want to leave. I need to come to grips with this. It's not that I love the work that much more, I would say comparatively it's about the same as as option b, just different. It's the challenge, that I have problems turning after from. I don't know if that makes sense. I honestly am not sure if I can put the time required to conquer this work, but then don't want to leave because my ego will be bruised.

I am salaried, so I do not get paid for any overtime. So hourly is less. Though I am told that I can take some time off if needed, I am always so busy, that I cannot. I am missing events in my kids school and life because of this. 


Rationally, our childcare situation is changing, so I will not have a full time nanny any more, or I will have a new one who will need time to get up to speed. My spouse is super busy, and his work is unstable. I actually think the best choice is B for my family. I am really fortunate that my girls are great and will be fine with whatever option I have but I see that I am not being the parent I intended, and that is more important than my work. 

I have a meeting with option a boss, and will be telling them that I really enjoy the work, but I need to be able to balance my family at this time. I do believe this will close this bridge in this area, but I am okay with that. I had said that I can move outside of the company. 

That's the plan for now.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

So I met with Iption A, and ready to say I am going back, and then he was so good I. Seeing how we could make it work. Listening to how we could make it work, and all the work coming through makes me excited and inspired, but that comes at the cost of time with my family. 

Head or Heart? Or is it Work or Home? Can I have it all?

Do I choose being happy at home (outside of work), and unhappy at work, and just suck it up the feeling of not being able to succeed (my ego)? Will this impact me at home if I am unhappy at work? I have been one of those people where they have always been tied together. Or do I choose being happy at work, and hoping things work out at home? 

Just looking for insights.


----------



## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

No brainer. My opinion is still to go with B and wait for option C or an external opportunity. If I ruined my family life because of work, it would haunt me for life. If I ruined work because of family, I would just get another job and move on. Yes, there may be some short term pain, but it's just a job. Work to live and not live to work.

I should qualify the above in assuming that you make a decent wage at either job and are not at the very beginning of your career. If not, I could see some validity for option A.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I think I am looking for validation. To be very honest, option b seems right, I am having such a hard time giving notice. Cause option a is so awesome.

I am pretty middle/senior in my career, and have paid my dues, but I have in the past truley loved work, hence the conflict, I love my family more. I have never had to choose. Money is also not the issues. 

I need to stop talking myself out of this B. I know my heart wants A, but B makes more sense.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

m3s said:


> I believe this to be true. Imagine your highest state of motivation possible, a literal fire under your a$$, you would suddenly accomplish things faster than you knew was possible. Good leadership and good team creates synergies, but that fire sets the pace.
> 
> When you subconciously have more time you will often use it. Once in a habit of working 70-80 hrs it becomes the norm. It's hard to reverse the culture trap of working 70-80 hrs as is typical in NA especially when everyone banks on their overtime premiums.


Having worked in environments like this, I have never seen it play out well. Employees got exhausted, suffered health consequences, grew resentful and it was not sustainable.

Most people can't work 70-80 hour work weeks over any prolonged period of time. This is ridiculous. _You_ might be able to do it, but most people cannot.


----------



## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I would still take option A. Toe the company line, say you are willing and able to do everything it takes, do the best you can, bla bla bla. Yet whenever work conflicts with family you chose family, because your boss won't likely come see you in your senior home. No one can fault you for that and especially not yourself. Family is a higher priority than work but you don't have to limit your work prospects because of it.

I think I was the one talking about ego in another thread but it is part of the higher level need of esteem according to maslow. If option A gives you more sense of contribution and value than it is indeed worth considering. Family is also on maslow's hierarchy as a fundamental need before esteem, which makes it a higher priority. The trick is to fulfil your esteem without drowning yourself in the company kool aid


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

m3s said:


> I would still take option A. Toe the company line, say you are willing and able to do everything it takes, do the best you can, bla bla bla. Yet whenever work conflicts with family you chose family, because your boss won't likely come see you in your senior home. No one can fault you for that and especially not yourself. Family is a higher priority than work but you don't have to limit your work prospects because of it.
> 
> I think I was the one talking about ego in another thread but it is part of the higher level need of esteem according to maslow. If option A gives you more sense of contribution and value than it is indeed worth considering. Family is also on maslow's hierarchy as a fundamental need before esteem, which makes it a higher priority. The trick is to fulfil your esteem without drowning yourself in the company kool aid


I was really looking for a way to take A, but I have proven to myself time and time again when the company calls, and there is an emergency, the little things for my family get pushed off. The problem is all these little things really up the big things. 

Also, my personality does allow me to perform just part way or average. I love challenge and it f Ives me nuts to know I am just adequate. This is for work and home which is why I am so torn. 


Curious, I teach Maslow theory , and haven't seen quite the same interpretation. Where does family fit in, which level in your version?


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> Do I choose being happy at home (outside of work), and unhappy at work, and just suck it up *the feeling of not being able to succeed*?



this is such a revealing sentence & it has to do with the sense of human advancement to a higher level, profound feelings of self-worth as m3s discusses. Not everyone is cut out to look for or achieve such development, but Plug you are one of the persons who are made like this & so is m3s.


then there is the beckoning nature of the work environment at option A. Unlike option B (stagnant, unhappy) you say the option A team are happy, achieving important goals together, they work as a team. Look how expertly the head of option A woos you. What can I do, he says, to make working with us easier for you? pretty irresistible, no?


Plug at this point i'm left with 2 takeaways. 

the simple one: How old are your girls? they say the mother's job is mostly accomplished by the time the child reaches the age of 7. You've already described an older daughter who sounds incredibly mature for her age (unless she is about 28, which is not the case.) Sure, there's the nanny issue, the husband-is-busy issue. But there will always be issues.

the difficult one: i'm not sure i'll be able to find the words to get this point across. Still, i'll try. You've mentioned that option A involves a lot of learning. It's the learning that preoccupies you night & day, even when you're at home on weekends, you say. Is the well-known Fear of Success syndrome involved here? how much of your work performance at option A will actually depend on the speed with which you can learn? to what degree are you magnifying - feeling daunted or even unnerved by - the demands you believe this learning process is going to place upon your time & your energy?

more importantly, does your new boss understand that the learning issue is the driver issue for you? to what extent can he provide props & supports? will workshop learning sabbaticals away from the job at intervals make the process easier? are there individual issues where a mentor (boss sounds like a good mentor) could extend a crucial helping hand?




> So I met with Iption A, and ready to say I am going back, and then he was so good I. Seeing how we could make it work. Listening to how we could make it work, and all the work coming through makes me excited and inspired, but that comes at the cost of time with my family.



me i don't see why it has to be A or B, black or white, family or work, but never both. Why couldn't you have it all? the girls are probably old enough to live a tiny bit more independently. The husband - busy as he is - can probably make a few extra adjustments to help with the parenting & the family life.

please give this another think-through Plug & don't forget to stay in touch with your fans on here.

.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just wanted to provide thanks and an update. HP, special thanks for your extra thoughtful response. I know how thorough and such a critical thinker you are, it was helpful in my decision to ensure I didn’t miss anything. I had made my decision for Option B prior to your last post. I was ready to tell my current and my returning boss. When I spoke with my current boss to tell him I was planning option B, he came with other options to work with me. After speaking with my current boss again, I was beginning to wonder if once again I can have both, or have it all. The areas that I need to learn, or less about technical skills, or a knowledge, but about working on areas which are not my natural strengths, and in fact, I don’t necessarily enjoy (probably because they are not my natural strength). He was quite amazing in agreeing that they would work with me, and we would find a way for me to off load some of this work. This alone, had me wavering on my decision again. Then I realized that the reason why this is such a hard decision is because my current environment is always going to be changing (it’s the nature of the work), which I really love. If it isn’t this one challenge, I will have another challenge. There will always be a new challenge that I am trying to figure out, which is what also consumes my time. I feel I never leave work at work, and am constantly trying to figure it out even at home. I am never at rest. 

My kids are 8 & 11. They are both very mature and responsibility, don’t need me from a survival stand point, and I am comfortable leaving them at home. That being said, I have also realized because of their maturity that unless it’s critical I will often choose work because work needs me more than my kids at the time. I can be a little bit of a work-alcoholic at times, and know that because my kids don’t NEED me for their survival, I let it slip and miss more things than I would like. They are understanding about it, and then I have realized that it is me that is not performing to the expectation of the type of parent I want to be. I know my kids will be fine, but I also do not want to miss out.

I worried that I would have regrets if I didn’t try staying at my new work vs. going back to something I know I am good at. . I have come to the realization, this may be true, I can’t look at it this way. I may have regrets about not choosing Option A, but I have faith in my abilities and experience that there will be other Option A’s in the future. However, my kids will only be this age once, and I don’t get a redo for them. I think it would worse to have regrets about my kids, because I know I won’t have any more, and that’s what is important. I know I don’t want regrets in the type of parent I am. 

In order to go back to Option B with the best success possible, I have decided on the following:
1. Generally, I am a pretty optimistic person, and I believe that that is why I am usually happy in whatever situation I am in. I will commit to ignoring the things that drained me before, and focus on the positive.
2. With a lesser workload and less stress, I am commitment to use this as an opportunity to reset. I was so stressed and burning out in my current position, I debated on taking a leave or just stopping. In option B, I will do a good job, but my focus will be on the family and myself. I will take the time to ensure that I have reconnected with myself mentally and physically (I haven’t been eating well or exercising due to lack of time)

I write this post in order for me to refer back to on times when I doubt my decision, and to remind me why I made this decision.


----------



## DuanePhillips (May 19, 2017)

Great Thoughts!!


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging i always knew that whatever decision you would make, it would be the perfect decision for you.

what you've modelled here is a superb way to approach many major decisions in life. The slow decision. Trial everything, test out everything, taste everything - while allowing the deepest feelings to surface & make themselves heard.

we can see how, by choosing option B, you have already got the negatives under full control. The reality is, they probably won't even bother you now!

there'll always be an option A waiting for Plugging. Whenever the girls are grown, whenever she decides to follow her rainbow.

.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I thought I would take the time for an update as a means for reflection and to sort out my thoughts at this time. Lot is going on.

I took option B, and recognized that I am not fully engaged nor challenged as I suspected. However, I do believe it was the right choice. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason. Though I am not challenged at my work, nor really enjoy it, it was worth it. I have been never so clear in my life where my priorities lie, and am able to follow through. I am getting home early with my kids and have been spending more time with them. I was able to take time off work to volunteer at my kids school when no other parent was able. If I was in job A, once again the deadline to my old project, and I would hav cancelled on the school and been extremely stressed. My work called me while off, but it was a small request I was easily able to manage. I also see that the stressors at job A are not going to be r solved any time soon. So it makes feel better that it wasn't just me and a learning curve but rather the nature of the work. 

The major event in my life that has also occurred is that my mother had a stroke and has been at the hospital. She required a family member there for assistance and for language translation. Fortunately, my older sibling who are not working, have done the lions share of the work in today, and I am able to help at night, There have been some work conflicts where the hospital needed me and so did work, in my last job, I would have chosen work. This time I was able to choose my family even though there was a major conflict because I just didn't care as much for work. I have to take care of a whole bunch of things for my parents as the POA. These all have to be done during the day, option b has allowed me to do it. So when I am at work, I may not be loving it, but I have concluded this is a good thing because when you love work so much (which in its of is a good thing though rare) it makes it really difficult to choose between two things that need you and you enjoy, 

MY mother will most likely need long term care, so I see a long road ahead and stressful times there. I am glad that I don't have that same stress at work. I wonder if this will change my work ethic and drive, but right now, I don't really care. Just taking some time to document my change In perspective.


----------



## againcome (Oct 17, 2017)

Plugging Along said:


> I am delayed at the airport and am do some life planning while I wait. Thought I would throw out something for discussion and just looking for different views. This is going to be long be ause I have a long flight delay.
> 
> I am mid career and have a really transferable skill set. I am currently working for public sector. My reasons I went into gov was for these reasons,
> -work life balance especially with two young kids at home
> ...


Everything should be balanced, eh.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I always get a little reflective in the new year especially when I have a little time to myself. First, since last year, I am crystal clear where my priorities are, and that is family. As an ambitious female, I have always tried to have it all, take all opportunities that c9me my way, and have managed generally well. Last year was my first major set back, and I would be lying if I didn’t say that I felt like a failure, after I made my decision to step down. It’s the over achieving type A personality of mine. Even months later, I am still recovering from my crazy last year. It was also a year that my oldest matured the most, and I missed a lot of it. 

I used to always enjoy work, and part of me is defined by the work that I do. I always thought I was more than competent at my work and had a reputation for it. I felt last year it was tarnished, and I wasn’t great at being a parent I wanted to be. I worried that that if I ever took a step back or slowed down at work, I would be left be behind or my career would stall. The point of this post is that I have been asked to consider another offer for a high profile area again. I will be turning it down. There was a little hestitantion but not quite the turmoil I felt last time. I am starting to truly see that I don’t need to take every opportunity that comes to me. If I am really good, they will come again, so right now, I choose family.

Let’s see if I stick to that once I have to official give my answer. Hence the reason for this post.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> ... I have been asked to consider another offer for a high profile area again. I will be turning it down. There was a little hestitantion but not quite the turmoil I felt last time. I am starting to truly see that I don’t need to take every opportunity that comes to me. If I am really good, they will come again, so right now, I choose family.




yes, exactly. It might be several years - girls grown up, living on their own - before you have enough extra time to take a challenging new career step forward. Even then, an opportunity might be something you would turn down for a number of reasons that can't even be foreseen at this moment. Sufficient unto the day.

Plug please never feel chagrin that your current choice in life is to branch out in several directions, always nurturing your extended family which IIRC includes your aging parents as well as your children. You are a successful role model for many young women who know that they will have to juggle their careers & their important relationships.


.


----------



## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Trust me, they grow up in the blink of an eye. Enjoy every moment you can. Take those family trips and the memories they provide.
In the end we take nothing with us. If you have family and they are with you at the end you have had a successful life.


----------



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> yes, exactly. It might be several years - girls grown up, living on their own - before you have enough extra time to take a challenging new career step forward. Even then, an opportunity might be something you would turn down for a number of reasons that can't even be foreseen at this moment. Sufficient unto the day.
> 
> Plug please never feel chagrin that your current choice in life is to branch out in several directions, always nurturing your extended family which IIRC includes your aging parents as well as your children. You are a successful role model for many young women who know that they will have to juggle their careers & their important relationships.
> 
> ...


Logically you are right on Humble. I try to not have regrets and think of the past too much. I know i made the right decision, I am trying to reconcile my values. Work has been a major part of the person I am, and proving that I could do anything. This new realization 8s just taking me time to adjust, hence what I have been using this thread to sort out m6 thoughts. I occasionally wonder if I was the other gender, would I have to constant choices. Tha5 I am sure is another thread. 




OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Trust me, they grow up in the blink of an eye. Enjoy every moment you can. Take those family trips and the memories they provide.
> In the end we take nothing with us. If you have family and they are with you at the end you have had a successful life.


Thank you, you are right. I always just thought I could do it all. When push comes to shove it is my family and relationships that matter.


----------



## Danny (Oct 17, 2012)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Trust me, they grow up in the blink of an eye. Enjoy every moment you can. Take those family trips and the memories they provide.
> In the end we take nothing with us. If you have family and they are with you at the end you have had a successful life.


If you have family and they are with you at the end you have had a successful life. Great quote....That pretty well says everything if you really stop and think about it.


----------



## MISAOK (Nov 19, 2017)

PA, it sounds like you have a clear sense of your priorities and your decisions have been consistent with those goals. You may have chosen the path of less career prestige (either temporarily or permanently), but in return you've acheived more personal success and a more well-rounded life.

I may just be justifying my own decisions to prioritize family over striving for ever greater professional success, but I don't think you'll regret putting family first. The work itself will always grow a bit stale no matter how amazing it initially seems. And you have nothing to prove to others either. You can spend the hours working so that strangers and acquaintances will look at you in admiration for being such a good professional, or you can have your kids smile and laugh with you at the park. In 20 years, only your kids will remember.


----------

