# Traffic Ticket (moving violation)



## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi all,

Anyone has experience in negotiating a moving violation into a non-moving violation? (ie: negotiate speeding down to parking?)

I calculate that a single moving violation ticket will cost about $650 extra in insurance over 3 years.

Thanks,
Slacker


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

I don't think that is possible unless the moving violation was a city bylaw and not a hta infraction.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

You can't.

You will need to fight it, though. Or at least see the Justice of the Peace.

What's the actual situation? Were you speeding?


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

for only a speeding violation to move your insurance up that much i would wonder how many tickets you have had before?? I had a colleague who argued a reckless driving into leaving the roadway which is solely the reason he can still legallay drive today.. It should be noted he was totally at fault and probably under an influence but lawyers can be worth the cost in certain situations.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Details: DISOBEY STOP SIGN - FAIL TO STOP

Contrary to HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT 136(1)(a)

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK213

I believe this is a 3 demerit point:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/demerit.shtml

Cost: $110 ticket and about $215 increase in insurance for 3 years = $750

I've tried punching in various combinations to the insurance web page, and the only thing that matters to them is non-parking convictions. In other words, even if I negotiate this into something less serious (say seat belt violation, 2 demerit points), the insurance company will still charge me the same increased amount.

The cop seem helpful in that he pointed out that I can probably get the ticket reduced to about $50 if I talked to the prosecutor, but in this case, my goal is to either get no conviction, or at least turn this into a parking conviction. Because that is the one that will save me the most money.

I'll willing to offer up to paying a $400 parking ticket, if that's possible. Otherwise, I'll have to fight the ticket, and hope it gets thrown out.


PS: I otherwise have a perfectly clean record (no convictions in the previous 3 years)


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## DanFo (Apr 9, 2011)

if you only ran a stop sign you might get by without a hit on your insurance...i had a failure to stop about 13 yrs ago but it resulted in an accident and I was at fault so i was screwed....but I know many many people with infractions and when they resulted in no insurance claims they have never resulted in higher insurance rates..risk could very well be dependant on your personal discloslure mind you.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

I think we're talking about two separate things here. The traffic ticket is enforced by a provincial police officer, while a parking ticket is the domain of a municipality parking enforcement agent. That's why most insurance websites specifically mention to exclude parking tickets from the infractions. Some do include it, but just as a way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

For insurance purposes, traffic tickets are categorized into minor, major, and criminal tickets. Yours is a minor violation, but switching to another minor would still be the same for insurance purposes. Quite often, cops or prosecutors talk about how tickets can be talked down from 3 points to 0 points so it won't impact insurance, but that's incorrect. Points are a completely separate thing (for drivers licenses) and don't impact insurance.

If you are planning on fighting the ticket, I would try to get an adjournment. Traffic court seems to set up all of a specific cop's tickets to one block of time in one day for convenience, so quite often you'll see one cop go up for 7 tickets in a row and then leave. Is it likely he'll come back another day in the future just for you? Probably not. This has worked on a few tickets for friends, though it didn't once. I suspect the guy pissed off the cop enough that he was memorable enough for the cop to want to come get him.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

@financialnoob: +1 knowledgable !!


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

If you live in the GTA, all you have to do it fight it. When it takes them over 11 months to get you a court date you claim charter of rights and freedoms

And stop speeding or move to a country without intentional cashgrab limits and outrageous insurance premiums


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Is your driving record otherwise stellar? If so your insurance company is likely to not raise your rates for a first offence.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

mode3sour, any suggestions on such a country?


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

It's hit or miss some countries are worse than Canada in this regard, and many are more reasonable. My bike and sport car insurance are a fraction of what they were in Canada, and even more services (road side assistance here makes CAA a joke). They took into account that I've never made an insurance claim, and ignored the petty tickets. I got a ticket when I first moved.... for $30 and no record!


That is off topic. If you read the auto forums, all the young Canadians are getting away with their tickets nowadays by going to court. Our justice system is becoming more convoluted than the US


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

Slacker: Thanks. I hang out with a lot of bad drivers apparently... 

Sherlock: I'm not sure of every single province, but in Ontario, rates are basically calculated by various formulae involving all sorts of criteria such as tickets. Some companies don't increase rates for one ticket, some do, but it's totally dependent on the company and the rules they've filed with FSCO. Though in my own experience, the majority of them will ding you if they get the opportunity to do so.


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## GAWd (Dec 15, 2010)

Some bad news for you:

For a stop sign violation you wont be able to plead to a lesser charge. You can't change the charge to one that is not relevant to the offence that took place. The reason you sometimes hear about the charge changing is usually due to the fact the orignial charge was Careless Driving or Speeding and the defence agreed to plead guilty to a lesser but still relevant charge. (ie. you had a rear ender and were charged with careless but agreed to plead guilty to follow to close).

No one can reduce the points on a ticket. The ministry controls the points program and the police and the courts have no say in the matter.

The Justice of the Peace can reduce the fine but in most cases you will need a very compelling reason to get him/her to do so.

Betting on the cop not showing up to court is a long shot. Most police officers face disiplinary action by their service if they do not show up to court. You are basically rolling the dice and hoping that the cop just happens to get hung up on another emergency on your court date. It does happen but not as often as the internet would make you think. Even if the cop isn't there the crown can request a remand and then you have to take more time off work at a later date to come back.

Now for the good news:

Just fight the ticket in court the worse that can happen is you lose and have to pay the full amount. Try hiring one of those Points or Ex-copper paralegals they can help a great deal at trial. They know exactly which facts to cast doubt on, and all it takes is some reasonable doubt for the Justice to rule in your favour.

In the future come to a full stop


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I can only speak for AB, but you can go and negotiate the ticket. If you were really not guilty, you can fight it. If you were guilty you can make a plea. You can ask for the ticket to be to the 'registerred owner' which is no demerits and no insurance increase. However, this is rare. They will often give you a reduction of points down to two which is more common, and a little off on the ticket. I used to be reall heavy footed, and got a lot of tickets. I have gotten at least a reduction on every one I have ever fought.


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