# Model Home Horror



## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

There is a new builder in our city whose model homes opened yesterday. We live in a semi currently, and while we are not looking to purchase any time soon, we were interested in what the builder had to offer for detached homes if we ever considered it in the future.

This builder had already given me a bad first impression with their Customer Service early on - E-mailed inquiries were not answered, and if they were, it was several months later. While this was off-putting, we didn't want to write them off, as it is the product that most is important in the end.

Oh, what a product they built.... :disillusionment:

I wrote a lengthy e-mail yesterday, but am unsure if to send it or not. It explains all the problems we saw. The thing is, I don't know if I want to send it because I don't want the builder to fix any of the issues! We want other people to have a chance to see the garbage work they do and avoid buying.

Also, have any of you had an experience with shoddy work in new homes? I'd be interested to hear stories!

Here is the e-mail:
(I have blanked out the names to avoid any accusations of slander)



> Please direct this e-mail to the builder. Thank you.
> 
> To whom it may concern,
> 
> ...


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

You have way too much time on your hands.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Four Pillars said:


> You have way too much time on your hands.


But, if no-one demands quality workmanship, doesn't sloppiness become the accepted norm by default?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

You get what you pay for.
This pretty par for the course of track mass model builders.
Your expectations are likely to high.
Track homes are full of defects but they are affordable to the mass----most of your problems are inferior workmanship and or cheap materials/hardware ect(this is why they are priced so much lower than ''custom'' homes.
No different than inspecting a base model kia or something and wondering why it does not compare to a bmw.
I'd say your wasting your time sending that email,whoever receives it will promptly hit the delete button.
I agree with 4 pillars-spend your time doing something productive.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Nemo2 said:


> But, if no-one demands quality workmanship, doesn't sloppiness become the accepted norm by default?


Sending an email is not 'demand'. Buying the house (or not) would indicate demand. 

The reality is that a lot of people won't or can't pay for top quality workmanship and they settle for something less.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Four Pillars said:


> Sending an email is not 'demand'. Buying the house (or not) would indicate demand.


And DayTek is doing, (or not doing, if you prefer), both.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Nemo2 said:


> But, if no-one demands quality workmanship, doesn't sloppiness become the accepted norm by default?


Sending an email is not 'demand'. Buying the house (or not) would indicate demand. 

The reality is that a lot of people won't or can't pay for top quality workmanship and they settle for something less.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Some people don't mind to drive cars with dents and scratches, with stained interior seats. Some insist on premium workmanship with perfection... So why do you care about the others? As long as all the building codes are followed, there is no issue. Is that your home? It is not, right? 

So stop being a world police trying to get everyone in the world to follow your expectation and standard Are you an American?


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

send away, but why? - I doubt they'll read it. If you seek the therepeutic aspect of a back and forth and vows to improve and thanks for your input, don't hold your breath. 

But thanks for sharing the observations here- seems to be pretty typical in Ontario.

I'm never moving from my 1980's custom built home. Real wood framing. Copper pipes and real wires. I feel for these folks having these "sub-par-division "crapbpxes their dream homes.


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

A home is one of the most important and expensive purchases the majority of people will make in their lifetime. If you are buying *brand new*, there is the expectation that everything is done right. I don't care if it's only up to "code", if you're trying to make an example of the product you want to offer, you better pull out all the stops. As I said in my letter, if the little visible things can not be done right, what else have they given the shaft?

And* @donald*, I don't care if it's a Kia or a BMW...I don't expect a dent in either as a first impression.

By the way, it's the weekend and my house is clean. What I do with the rest of my time is mine. So if I want to spend my downtime writing an e-mail, I'll write one.  And if you want to spend your downtime on this Forum, that's up to you. So howabouts we save the judgement and get back to the topic at hand?


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

List the spec/details sheet(features/materials) daytek along with the sq ft and than what the price is for these models.(so one can figure out what price per sq ft is going for on these models)
sloppy paint jobs/cheap closet hangers/poor chaulking jobs are cheap workmanship and cheap materials ect
shifting above doors are ''normal'' this is where ''settling'' shows and can be easily fixed-no it's not acceptable but it is not a ''true'' alarming defect(wood ''moves'')


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Our last home was a model home the builder had used as a showplace for a couple of years.

We thought that everything would be settled and fixed by the time we bought it........but no.

A couple years after we moved in.........a big crack in the foundation, a crack in the poured concrete sidewalk, popping drywall screws, twisted framing, and a bath tub that pulled up with the rubber bath mat.

We had a good builder and he fixed everything to our satisfaction, but that isn't always the case.

I think the reputation of the builder for fixing future problems is a very important factor in buying a new home.

Personally, I would avoid buying a brand new home for many reasons....and would rather purchase a 20 year old home that had all the problems fixed already.

As far as sending a letter to the builder..........I am sure he already knows the problems his homes are developing.

If he doesn't answer email questions when trying to sell..............good luck getting him back to fix anything.

It would be a waste of time telling him what he already knows.......but doesn't care about.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Without judgement, my question is what is the purpose of sending the letter?

If it is to say that you took a moral ground and pointed something, and will make you feel better at night, then send the letter. It may not do anything, but you can say you did something. It won't hurt , as you already said you have nothing better to do with your time. 

If it's to get the builder to change, your letter will most likely just be read and discarded. You are not a customer, You have no intent to buy, therefore you have no weight or collateral with the builder. 

If you want to get some real change, the you can try and launch a campaign. If you want to save future owners from their own lack of research or experience, then you could start sending the letter to the media and consumer groups, you could also campaign outside the show home, or stay their and point out the defects to potential buyers. This would most likely get more of the change you want. 

So should you send the letter, you have already written it, so why not. I would just not get your hopes up in getting a response as they didn't give one when you had inquired as a buyer before. I see people on here (not you), where they are so intent on punishing or buying right or bringing justice, it seems to be unhealthy. 

Me, I would have not taken the time to write the letter. It takes me a long time to decide if I post here, I like this forum more than a bunch of strangers that may buy a house.


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## DayTek (Sep 26, 2013)

To give you an idea of one of the builder's standard specs for this model:

$280,000. 1752 Square feet. 2 Storey. 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath. Exterior is brick and siding. Base coat asphalt driveway. California spayed ceilings. Colonial baseboards and doors. Brushed nickel hardware on doors. Oak pickets and railings. Ceramic flooring in kitchen, foyer and baths. Oak standard hardwood in living room. Arborite or formica counter tops. Basement 2 peice rough-in. Central vac rough-in. Soaker tub.

Upgrades that were done included the kitchen, fireplace in the living room, flooring, carpeting, shower in master bedroom, etc. Total upgrades brought the home to $320,000. 

We purchased our 1200-sq ft, 2 storey, 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath, semi-detached home in 2006 for $184,000. NOT luxury. Standard carpet, laminate floors, laminate counter tops. No ensuite, no walk-in closet, no soaker tub. We upgraded to maple in the kitchen. Everything else is similar to this models base specs. The model home for our place was flawless and we bought the same design. 

So if we're going by price per sq ft, who's model should have been presented with more care?

I've decided to not send the e-mail. I don't think that it will change this builder in anyway. But I got it out in writing, I vented. It felt good and I'll move on! 

A customer shops, a client buys. So in the housing market, I am customer with the potential to be a client. I don't wish to slander this company. I'm not a lobbyist, I'm not going to loose sleep over any of this. Hubby and I will just be honest if people talk to us about that division. Word of mouth is powerful.

Maybe this builder does do quality work at the core of his homes. Is that evident from the care he has put in his "show homes"? I do not believe so.

In this market, people are already over-paying. And over-paying *badly*. To me, as a home owner (and experienced _new_ home owner), people should be getting the very best because they are paying more now than ever _for _the very best. Homes like mine don't exist anymore. Our sub-division with homes similar to ours sold well because people saw a good value in a liveable home. Ever since interest rates plummeted after we bought our home, builders only build the biggest and best now, so that's all people think they need. Don't get me wrong, I love the architecture of new, large homes. But no matter the size, the job should always be done right, irregardless of how much time or effort it takes. Guess I just don't want that sentiment to get dead and buried under all the square-footage.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Glad you feel better. Sometimes a little vent in writing it my down is all it takes. I totally agree with your word of mouth approach. 

I am not disagreeing that the quality isn't there and people may be over paying, but i always pick the hill that you are going to die on. There are some many things in this world that are not quite right people could drive themselves nuts with the injustices.

I have believed that one should speak out on injustices and live to with a clear conscience. I also believe pick your battles wisely, and make sure that the ones you pick are the ones you are willing to follow through in win on. So they better be worth it.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

My view is... it's none of your business.

It's like seeing your friend dating a bad boy, and you feel there is a strong urge to speak out how wrong that guy is. However, your friend does not seem to care. You then point, as the title says, "it's a horror!" Then as a someone who had such relationship (ie, your view as homeowner), you feel it is your obligation to speak up and write a complain letter to vent your sentiment.

Well, let the others make bad choices. I don't see why you feel there is an absolute need to speak up or do something. If people want to make a bad choice, so be it. There is no need to be a world police.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

My initial reaction was - sure, send it. If consumers don't complain about shoddy workmanship, what motive is there for the builder to improve? But on reflection I don't think writing to the builder will do any good - if he takes so little care over workmanship in his "show" home, he's not going to pay any attention to you.

Your observations might be of more interest to whoever writes reviews of new homes in your local newspaper, with a suggestion that they look into these quality issues for themselves. Unfortunately these "reviewers" are often boosters for the real estate industry, not critics, and all they write about is the positive features of the designs.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

You already know how they respond to emails now don't you?

If it takes months to reply when they are trying to sell you something what do you think will happen to the above email? My guess is they will delete it before they read the second paragraph.

Go ahead and send it, if it will make you feel better. It won't make any difference to the builder. He will never see it.

By the way congratulations on investigating the builder before you invest your money. There are other builders out there, now you can pick one that suits you better.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

These track builders make their 20% by using somewhat sub-par materials and cheap unskilled labour aka hack subcontractors.
I know 1st hand what model builders pay for sub work and working for them can lead a guy to the poor house.
The reason the workmanship is so poor is because of this-it's all based on time and production(no room to put ''proper'' care into any detailed/ meticulous work)I know that doesn't sound good but it's the truth.
slap em up and sell them like hot cakes,no different than any other service/product that is a ''value'' buy.
280k for nearly 1800 sq ft is a economical package.
These guys can't afford workmanship because it eats into the profits.
Their competitors that are in the same space are the same,that's what you get when you deal with these type of builders.


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## jacofan (Apr 17, 2013)

They won't care about your email. They're obviously in the business of selling substandard buildings. For every one of you there's likely 99 others who won't notice the defects. Then we'll see it on Holmes on Homes later on.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We bought a builder model home in Durham region for investment and I can tell you that the work in the model home was amazing in some areas like tiles ,granite etc but the baseboards and paint looked like they were done by a blind person.The color was smeared on the baseboards I could not believe this was their model home.They used excuse they had used it for over two years and lots of wear and tear.They gave us a $9000 credit for the cost to get it repainted and we got all the window coverings and some furniture that was probably worth another $10,000 but thank god we did.We had some bay windows and Literally you could look under them and see the bottom of the dining room floor in one area.They used flashing to cut out in shape of the window and used this to cover the opening , no insulation or anything.My husband spent a full month fixing little things and the big thing was there was no plumbing installed for the washer and dryer ,the hose was there and looked like it was done but of course we are not going to do a load of laundry on inspection.They actually went through trouble to make it appear to be connected.Issue with most new builds is probably 10% are inspected so builders take alot of short cuts along the way.The last two homes we have for personal use have been custom built and it is not so much about the materials being used but the tradesmen themselves who do the work.I spent almost a day watching a man staining my handmade staircase and it was artwork for him and he took so much pride.In the mass builder homes it is all piecework and they want to get out as fast as possible.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Our family friend use to Frame houses for a big Builder in GTA and one day the clean up guy accidentally removed some support strings and the same day they delivered the shingles and put them on the roof.The house went a big loppy from the weight and their way to fix it was pull it with the forklift and nail it all together.My friend said he would hate to be the homeowner because there was not going to be a straight wall in that house.The builder would not pay the $2000 for my friend to take it apart and fix it the proper way.Another thing this builder did was change the space between the wall boards save on wood ,same friend said if ever a big guy leaned against the wall in the 'right ' place he would go right through the wall.Our nephew bought house from same builder and one return air vent upstairs for a 2000 sq ft home , the air flow was non existent.Builders count on people to look at cosmetics and not the mechanics of the homes or workmanship ,obviously if they are slapping together a house in a couple months you know how well it is being made when they are doing thousands of them.


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## Video_Frank (Aug 2, 2013)

My wife and I went through many model homes in 1993 / 1994 when we looking to up-size. The things we saw in some model homes were mind numbing. One model had a diagonal crack in the exterior brickwork large enough to put a fist into, and this covered the whole side of the house. The master bedroom floor was humped quite badly and everyone was literally stumbling walking through. The furnace in the basement has a continuous stream of water pouring out of it into the floor drain. We couldn't believe that this was what the builder wanted to show prospective buyers.

Another builder's model was so bad that you could see daylight looking up out of the basement. Either the foundation or the house was out of square and the sill plate was not resting on the foundation at one corner. How it passed inspection is completely beyond me.

In the end we found a quality builder and we were on site nearly every day, talking to the foreman and the framers, bringing them coffee and other beverages. I think, as Marina says above, that builders count on you to worry about tiles and carpet colours more than on the structure itself.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

^yeah, pretty much how I see it.


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## MRT (Apr 8, 2013)

Daytek, send it...but send it to the developer's main office. I guarantee anyone in the site/sales office will just shred or delete it and it will never reach anyone of consequence (assuming there is someone higher up who gives a damn). Consider press/review sites, other forums, and places where home buyers would be looking. 

Price points should reflect 'good', 'better', 'best' (the scale should not start with 'sloppy'). It is perfectly reasonable to expect to pay a premium for specialized workmanship and higher quality materials...you ought not have to pay more for something to be done "right" though.

While I doubt you will get a response, I trust that it not your purpose for writing. Hopefully you will send it to the right people. Keep spreading the word to anyone you know who is home shopping too...that is more important than telling a builder what they likely already know (though I doubt the folks at the very top have even walked through that model, never mind have a CLUE about the workmanship their people are doing).


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