# Canadian Tire Tires - Made to CT's specs?



## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

Hi all: 

My father, who was an automotive mechanic for years, always claimed that Canadian Tire's Tires were cheaper knock-offs of the tires you'd buy from other dealers.

In other words, he believes that a Michelin X-Ice 2 from Canadian Tire is a cheaper made tire than the Michelin X-Ice 2 from (for example) Costco.

As such, he'd never buy from there. I've quietly questioned that logic, since I'll freely admit the guy is a little prone to conspiracy theories. But this year, as I'm searching for winter tires for my truck, I noticed something interesting: 

The tire I'm about to buy is a General Tire Arctic Altimax; it is currently on sale at CT for $230 in the size I require. I was looking up specs right on the manufacturers website and it says it has a Load Range (Ply) Rating of E. CT's website says it is a D.

I've noticed some other discrepancies too in other specs.

Has anyone else heard this rumor that CT tires are crappier verisons of the originals?


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

I have 36 years as a mechanic,it is a myth

There is a

Ice tire ,winter tire and an all weather tire,you have to decide what you needs are,they are very different,my preference would be an all weather tire


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks. I'm running an all season 20" tire for most of the year. The tires I'm considering will be dedicated winter 17" tires, so I'm going for snow/ice characteristics.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

An ice tire will only have the first 20% multi cell compound,after that you have a winter tire,buy all 4 and mark them so you can rotate them next year to different position,if you have sensors in original wheel you will get a MIL light on dash,have someone disable it


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

1980z28 said:


> An ice tire will only have the first 20% multi cell compound,after that you have a winter tire,buy all 4 and mark them so you can rotate them next year to different position,if you have sensors in original wheel you will get a MIL light on dash,have someone disable it


Interesting. I have bought Ice tires for years, specifically Michelin X-Ice, but they're also incredible in the snow from day 1. At least the types of snow we get in Newfoundland. Although I drove them in Calgary for the last 2 years and they weren't great in my opinion. They filled up with the dense cold snow very quickly and then were like bald tires.

No way to disable the TPMS error message on my vehicle (unfortunately). I like to store my winter tires right in front of my vehicle for the winter. That way the alarm goes away for the first 10km or so. So for the most part, around the city, I never get the alarm.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't know how it applies to this particular example but many products are specifically made for big box stores and they are made of cheaper components or have less bells and whistles than similar products produced for everyone else, that's why you will have TV sold by Futureshop with a model number you can't find anywhere else, and appliance models sold by Home Depot which you may not find anywhere else, this goes for many items like shovels, tools and so on.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Maj34 said:


> Hi all:
> 
> My father, who was an automotive mechanic for years, always claimed that Canadian Tire's Tires were cheaper knock-offs of the tires you'd buy from other dealers.
> 
> ...


http://www.townfairtire.com/tire-guide/tire-load-range/


I used to buy them CTC brand years ago..had lots of problems with the sidewall distortion , vibration at speed. Switched to Michelins..vibration disappeared. 


and to add to the confusion...


> *Modern load range/ply ratings do not count the number of ply layers inside the tire.* In fact, they indicate an equivalent strength based on early bias ply tires. Light truck tires, even those with heavy duty ratings (10-14 ply rated), actually have two or three fabric body plies, or one steel ply while many radial passenger tires have one or two body plies.



What is the size of your tire that you were interested in?


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Brand name stuff, like the tires mentioned, will all be the same regardless of the store.
Also retail websites are notoriously bad for posting the wrong specs, bad data entry I guess, check the actual makers website for the real info.

If you're running winter rims/tires each year get a set of TPM sensors put in, they're fairly cheap if sourced online depending on the vehicle ... or a piece of black tape to go over the light is even cheaper.


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

cainvest said:


> Brand name stuff, like the tires mentioned, will all be the same regardless of the store.
> Also retail websites are notoriously bad for posting the wrong specs, bad data entry I guess, check the actual makers website for the real info.
> 
> If you're running winter rims/tires each year get a set of TPM sensors put in, they're fairly cheap if sourced online depending on the vehicle ... or a piece of black tape to go over the light is even cheaper.


Yeah, I suspect the bad data entry thing too. But it'd suck to spend $1200 on tires that are subpar, and then for the company to say "we told you" because their website was actually accurate.

TPM sensors are just at the price where I'm too cheap to buy them. Even non-OEM ones on amazon are about $150 for my vehicle. Electric tape it is.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Maj34 said:


> My father, who was an automotive mechanic for years, always claimed that Canadian Tire's Tires were cheaper knock-offs of the tires you'd buy from other dealers.
> ...
> As such, he'd never buy from there. I've quietly questioned that logic, since I'll freely admit the guy is a little prone to conspiracy theories.


I have personally been duped by Canadian Tire many years ago.
Not just with tires, but by poor service to the car.
They sold me very poor quality tires in 2004.
In addition, they damaged the ignition wiring during routine service.

The tires were extremely poor quality.

I have since then never returned to Canadian Tire for any kind of vehicle related matters.
In fact, I seldom go in there for anything.


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> I have personally been duped by Canadian Tire many years ago.
> Not just with tires, but by poor service to the car.
> They sold me very poor quality tires in 2004.
> In addition, they damaged the ignition wiring during routine service.
> ...


Yeah, I think CT sells a lot of crap tires. But so does Good Year, Michelin, and Bridgestone in my opinion. They all have good tires and all have low cost ones that suck. 

I feel like I was duped by Good Year 10 years ago; I heard great things about Good Year Ultra Ice Grip. I bought some and they warped up and wore out quickly. I later heard there are two types of GY Ice Grips. The desirable ones say WRT at the end I think. I got the non-WRT (economy) ones, thinking I was getting the ones everyone said were great. They weren't.

Lessen learned: do your research. But I think the above is/was a terrible long term strategy on Good Years part. I for one won't buy them unless I'm *really* convinced that they're better value and cost than other brands. And that just won't happen; the tire industry is way too competitive.

Service at CT isn't an issue for me - I'm taking the tires and balancing/installing myself.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Maj34 said:


> Interesting. I have bought Ice tires for years, specifically Michelin X-Ice, but they're also incredible in the snow from day 1. At least the types of snow we get in Newfoundland. Although I drove them in Calgary for the last 2 years and they weren't great in my opinion. They filled up with the dense cold snow very quickly and then were like bald tires.
> 
> No way to disable the TPMS error message on my vehicle (unfortunately). I like to store my winter tires right in front of my vehicle for the winter. That way the alarm goes away for the first 10km or so. So for the most part, around the city, I never get the alarm.


I am originally from the rock 

I think full snow would work very well there

I drive a Jeep GC ,I live with Michelin LTX all year,not much snow in Ontario(cambridge) will retire back home in two years,Can`t wait for the RDF


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I have bought tires exclusively at Costco ever since they opened their first Canadian store in Burnaby, BC in the early/mid eighties.

Don't buy much at CT. Find their CT products to be of lesser quality. Plus, I caught their service folks trying to rip my wife off on a brake job. Since that time we avoid their stores.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

1980z28 said:


> I am originally from the rock
> 
> I think full snow would work very well there
> 
> I drive a Jeep GC ,I live with Michelin LTX all year,not much snow in Ontario(cambridge) will retire back home in two years,Can`t wait for the RDF


What..............no 1980 Camaro Z28 ?

I only ask...........because when I saw your forum handle............it reminded me of the 1979 Camaro Z28 I bought brand new..............

Turquoise......fully loaded with navy blue "velour" seats and a glass T-roof, functional hood vents that flooded the 4 barrel with extra air.........$9600 total.

It had it's problems though..........oil kept leaking out of the manifold gaskets and ruining the spark plug wires. They were difficult to change from underneath.

Happened twice and I got rid of the car within a year..........and bought a Caprice Classic Brougham...........quite the change........:rugby:


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

1980z28 said:


> I am originally from the rock
> 
> I think full snow would work very well there
> 
> I drive a Jeep GC ,I live with Michelin LTX all year,not much snow in Ontario(cambridge) will retire back home in two years,Can`t wait for the RDF


I only lived in Alberta for 2 years. I partly moved away because of the RDF, but I've actually enjoyed it since moving back. 




fraser said:


> I have bought tires exclusively at Costco ever since they opened their first Canadian store in Burnaby, BC in the early/mid eighties.
> 
> Don't buy much at CT. Find their CT products to be of lesser quality. Plus, I caught their service folks trying to rip my wife off on a brake job. Since that time we avoid their stores.


So, that was the premis of this thread. Would you think a Michelin X-Ice 2 from Costco to be better quality than X-Ice 2 from Canadian Tire? I think the basic conclusion above is that they'd be the same tire. But I'd be interested to see if you'd say the CT tire would be cheaper made. Because that is still an impression out there I think.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

cainvest said:


> Brand name stuff, like the tires mentioned, will all be the same regardless of the store.
> Also retail websites are notoriously bad for posting the wrong specs, bad data entry I guess, check the actual makers website for the real info.
> 
> If you're running winter rims/tires each year get a set of TPM sensors put in, they're fairly cheap if sourced online depending on the vehicle ... or a piece of black tape to go over the light is even cheaper.


Not true

Big box stores often have "exclusive" products are are watered down versions of what is sold everywhere else. This is absolutely true and common with electronics.

I know of 1 motorcycle tire that became so famous it was always sold out everywhere. The company watered down the compound and now it's known to be a horrible borderline unsafe tire.. but people still buy it in droves thanks only on its (past) reputation !

A lot of car brands are also watered down for certain countries, and priced higher thanks to its "brand appeal" in said country...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Canadians assume that all the 50% sales at Canadian Tire are amazing deals...

Actually if you Google, for example, a lawn mower 50% off at Canadian Tire you may find that its USD MSRP is actually below the Canadian Tire sale price...

That's why Target et al raise all their prices in Canada!!!


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

sags said:


> What..............no 1980 Camaro Z28 ?
> 
> I only ask...........because when I saw your forum handle............it reminded me of the 1979 Camaro Z28 I bought brand new..............
> 
> ...


My 80Z I still have purchase for 13K,T bar car
Modified 0 to 100 4.2 sec 1/4 mile 10.9 sec
Full roller motor 355 geardrive,3000 stall,4.11 at the rear,all black except centerline wheels,appraised at 28k last year for insurance,Hargerty insuranc2
It gets 8 mpg on 94 octane,I only go to car shows


Nice to know that we had fun burning rubber as I remember back then no seat belts used,gas at 18 cents a liter,24 was 9 dollars,


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Maj34 said:


> Yeah, I suspect the bad data entry thing too. But it'd suck to spend $1200 on tires that are subpar, and then for the company to say "we told you" because their website was actually accurate.


Easy to find out. Phone your local CTC store with your tire size and ask what the load rating is on their display tire(s). Most stores will have them on display, so the letter can be read off, or the tire guy working there should give you the answer.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Maj34 said:


> The tire I'm about to buy is a General Tire Arctic Altimax; it is currently on sale at CT for $230 in the size I require.


What size? Quebec has online tire vendors with free delivery that always beats Canadian Tire.. Not sure if there's anything like that in NFLD


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Maj34 said:


> I only lived in Alberta for 2 years. I partly moved away because of the RDF, but I've actually enjoyed it since moving back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What do you mean by "cheaper made"? All tires imported into Canada have to meet the DOT specs for the size and load/speed rating of the tire. 
A lot of tires are made outside of Canada, these days and they would be cheaper for the big box stores to buy, but they still have to meet some kind of DOT specs. 

Load range is the number of plies>
D	8
E	10

However I would think that the Loadindex would be the better measuring stick to determine how much weight each tire is capable of carrying at proper inflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code
General Tire is part of Continental Tire.


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

carverman said:


> Easy to find out. Phone your local CTC store with your tire size and ask what the load rating is on their display tire(s). Most stores will have them on display, so the letter can be read off, or the tire guy working there should give you the answer.


Oh, I wish it was that easy. I've been in 3 Canadian Tires. No one that worked at any of these stores knew how to read the load rating on the tires. The tires are on sale, but not in stock, and not on display in any size close to my truck tires.

The tires say "LT265/70R17 104/118H". According to GT's website, these should be "LT265/70R17 121/118Q".

Now, FYI, the second of the spec (121/118Q) is the load rating (121), the de-rated load rating if using dual wheels (118), and the speed rating (H).

So on CT's website, the load index is off. And if that 104 number is correct, that's really low for a truck.

In all 3 stores, employees just either say "I don't know", or one guy said 104 is the load rating, 118H is the speed rating. It's sad that people selling tires at Canadian Tire know less than I do after 30 minutes research.


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

carverman said:


> What do you mean by "cheaper made"? All tires imported into Canada have to meet the DOT specs for the size and load/speed rating of the tire.
> A lot of tires are made outside of Canada, these days and they would be cheaper for the big box stores to buy, but they still have to meet some kind of DOT specs.
> 
> Load range is the number of plies>
> ...


Yes. By cheaper made, I mean lower ply ratings and lower load ratings. The problem with the Canadian Tire tires - the spec is listed weirdly on their website.

LT265/70R17 104/118*H*

The underlined part is wrong, because it should be bigger number than the one that follows it. The bold part is different than General has listed on their website for their tires.

Point being, I have no idea whether CT's website is wrong, or whether it is a "cheaper, made-for-Canadian-Tire tire".

I've posted the question on the product page, but no answer.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Maj34 said:


> According to GT's website, these should be "LT265/70R17 121/118Q".
> 
> In all 3 stores, employees just either say "I don't know", or one guy said 104 is the load rating, 118H is the speed rating. It's sad that people selling tires at Canadian Tire know less than I do after 30 minutes research.


121/118Q on tirerack are $162USD and pmctire has 121/118Q for $227 CAD. It's probably a typo.. unless they are really old stock (I've heard stories of Canadian Tire selling old dead car batteries, and my neighbours wheel FELL OFF after being changed there..)

People working retail these days generally don't know anything about what they are selling unfortunately.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

US Tire shop: General Tire AltimaxLT265x70R17
Part Number: 04568540000
Service Description: 121 Q

Tire Size: LT265x70R17
Tread Life Warranty:
Sidewall: BW
Load Range: E (10 Ply)

CT lists the same GT partnumber: Product #: 0080297 Manufacturer Part #: 04568540000

I would agree that it is a mistake in CT online catalog. as '104' = 900kg and "121" = 1450kg.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

1980z28 said:


> I am originally from the rock
> 
> I think full snow would work very well there


My father uses studded tires. Now that's traction


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## Maj34 (Oct 7, 2011)

m3s said:


> What size? Quebec has online tire vendors with free delivery that always beats Canadian Tire.. Not sure if there's anything like that in NFLD


No, not in NL that I can find. Most prices I can find on the online discount tire sites charge just enough for shipping to make it not worthwhile. Sometimes it sucks living on an island, and it's easy to get PO'd that people charge more for shipping to us; but I guess if I had a company I wouldn't lose money shipping to people who choose to live at the farthest reaches of the continent.



carverman said:


> US Tire shop: General Tire AltimaxLT265x70R17
> Part Number: 04568540000
> Service Description: 121 Q
> 
> ...


That's great, thanks! Same manufacturer's code is reassuring. I think I'll order some before the sale goes off tomorrow.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I've heard the same thing, about clothing companies making cheaper versions to sell in their Factory Outlet stores.


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## Video_Frank (Aug 2, 2013)

Yup, as per a Moneysense article here.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

OE tires on new cars are often water downed versions of the same tire. I've seen tread wear ratings lower and tire tread depth lower on these than the manufacturers ratings on line. 

I expect the same thing can happen with large retailers that buy in quantity.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Maj34 said:


> ... My father, who was an automotive mechanic for years, always claimed that Canadian Tire's Tires were cheaper knock-offs of the tires you'd buy from other dealers.
> 
> In other words, he believes that a Michelin X-Ice 2 from Canadian Tire is a cheaper made tire than the Michelin X-Ice 2 from (for example) Costco.
> 
> ...


Can't be, in the way you have stated it. If the manufacturer's name (such as Michelin) is on it, it's made to their specs, not Canadian Tire's. They can't be "cheaper knock-offs". Apart from the infringement of copyright, it would be bad for the reputation of the brand-name company. 

It used to be that Canadian Tire sold mostly their brand name, Motomaster, which would have been made to Canadian Tire's specs by a brand-name tire manufacturer. (In fact I'm pretty sure they even had an ad once showing a CTC truck pulling out of a Michelin factory in the dark of night, with the message, why pay more for the brand name, when our Motomaster tires come from the same factory.) It is certainly possible that the Motomaster tires, even if they are made in a Michelin/Goodyear/etc, factory, are not as good, because they would be made to different specs. But you would have to look at the ratings and reviews to see if they are better or worse. (I notice the ad isn't running anymore, so maybe the manufacturers told CTC to stop misrepresenting their Motomaster tires as "the same as" the brand name. )


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## GuzzlinGuinness (Nov 28, 2014)

The only tire I know of that is made specifically for Canadian Tire is the "Goodyear Nordic Winter Tire".

Now how closely it resembles some other Goodyear tire, I don't know.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Not a fan of Canadian Tires auto dept's in general...


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