# Class action law suit for useless degrees



## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The fraud in education is totally out of control. Lend money to kids that have no understanding what they are getting into @ close to zero risk is big business. The cost of education is out of control with all the money thrown @. Where is the accountability for putting kids in debt prison for pretty much useless degrees ? Learning on the internet @ a fraction of the cost makes sense. Class action law suit could happen in the future.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Liberal arts degrees have always been around, no lawsuits yet...


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Governments are slowly recognizing online education as equivalent or better than bricks and mortar education.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

Not only are many of these degrees useless, some of them are outright propaganda and you'll actually leave far worse off than before you started. 

IMO this starts in grade school where we no longer teach youth about the real world and personal responsibility for choices and actions but instead cater to peoples feelings and promote socialist ideologies. Parents play a role in this of course too.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I remember when I was in school, I was in a high tech stream. The problem was that, by the time a prof taught himself the material, then created the curriculum and the course materials, they were all out of date. I, on the other hand, had been reading the latest papers before going to school. 

By taking the courses, I had to stop reading the current materials and study the course materials, putting me behind in the field. The material I leaned, to get qualified, was out of date. Of course the paper said I was now an "expert", but I knew more than my profs going in.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

5Lgreenback said:


> IMO this starts in grade school where we no longer teach youth about the real world and personal responsibility for choices and actions but instead cater to peoples feelings and *promote socialist ideologies. Parents play a role in this of course too.*


And grandparents who never studied math: http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/114706-Universal-basic-income


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> IMO this starts in grade school where we no longer teach youth about the real world and personal responsibility for choices and actions but instead cater to peoples feelings and promote socialist ideologies. Parents play a role in this of course too.


 Depends on parents , however , agree about schools... a lot of brainwashing and propoganda


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

My experience with online education is this. For many students it works great. For many other students it works like this. The less motivated students (there are many) are the sheep. The in class instructor is the dog. The task of being herded into a pen is the educational experience. I think you get the picture I am painting. It is the same with fitness. Many people can do it alone others need a trainer. Not one size fits all. So we need to offer both brick and motor education and online education.


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## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

sags said:


> Governments are slowly recognizing online education as equivalent or better than bricks and mortar education.


In their late teens,early twenties ,humans are at the height of their breeding potential. So putting young men and women together could be viewed as a breeding experiment. Crossing smart with smart in order to produce smart offspring. 

Also friendships and business connections are made. Facebook got started on campus at Harvard. Mark Zuckerberg more or less took the idea from the Winklevoss 
twins when it was just a dating site for one university and ran with it. He also met his wife at Harvard.


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

Moneytoo said:


> And grandparents who never studied math: http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/114706-Universal-basic-income


Its a dangerous path we're on, heck even on an investment forum we have people calling for (more) socialism! You should hear the moans and entitlement of many of my friends I grew up with who went to college and university for film school and gender studies degrees. They are having troubles finding work and making a living, but its not their fault, some invisible ghost is responsible for their place in life. Theirs no point in trying to better oneself, something called "patriarchy" is holding them down. So the government should just step in and make everything better by doing what they do best, taking money from those who've earned it, using half of it to pay government admin wages and pensions, then redistributing whats left of it.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

5Lgreenback said:


> You should hear the moans and entitlement of many of my friends I grew up with who went to college and university for film school and gender studies degrees. They are having troubles finding work


I showed your post to my daughter (2nd year med school student), she shared her thoughts on why grade 13th should be brought back and gave examples from a recent gettogether with her high school friends who've graduated from different programs and now realizing it's not easy to find jobs. I never thought it's that common for young people (and/or their parents) to pay thousands of dollars for degrees with a slim chance of getting a job that will justify the expense...


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## 5Lgreenback (Mar 21, 2015)

Moneytoo said:


> I showed your post to my daughter (2nd year med school student), she shared her thoughts on why grade 13th should be brought back and gave examples from a recent gettogether with her high school friends who've graduated from different programs and now realizing it's not easy to find jobs. I never thought it's that common for young people (and/or their parents) to pay thousands of dollars for degrees with a slim chance of getting a job that will justify the expense...


As the saying goes, I wish I knew back then what I know now. Schools aren't preparing kids for the real world, they weren't 12 years ago when I last had the pleasure of attending, and they definitely aren't now. It sounds like your daughter may have had some outside influence to take such a wise path!


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

5Lgreenback said:


> It sounds like your daughter may have had some outside influence to take such a wise path!


My husband and I are both in IT, but my mother-in-law was a doctor back home - and, funnily enough, her main inspiration was Dr. Foreman from the popular House show that she watched with us  So she made a plan in Grade 9 what she'll need to do to become a doctor, had neuroscience as a major in the undergrad, made it into the med school from the first try - so "personal responsibilities for choices" really resonate with her, as her friends sometimes call her opinions "harsh"...


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## Jaberwock (Aug 22, 2012)

I don't understand why we pay for all kids to finish school up to grade 12, irrespective of their abilities and future prospects. Then we take the brightest and best amongst them, the ones who provide the best opportunity to contribute in a meaningful way to society, and we expect them to pay for own education.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Maybe it's like UBI. We give you enough to survive, if you need to go further to get more, it's up to you.

Anything more would be elitist and unfair to those who couldn't do better.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Jaberwock said:


> hen we take the brightest and best amongst them, the ones who provide the best opportunity to contribute in a meaningful way to society, and we expect them to pay for own education.


The brightest & best never have a problem paying for their education.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Eder said:


> The brightest & best never have a problem paying for their education.


I'm not sure that is true. 



> The 2012 Quebec student protests were a series of student demonstrations led by student unions such as the Association pour une solidarité syndicale étudiante, the Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec, and the Fédération étudiante collégiale du Québec against a proposal by the Quebec Cabinet, headed by Liberal Premier Jean Charest, to raise university tuition from $2,168 to $3,793 between 2012 and 2018.[1] As part of the protest movement, a series of widespread student strikes were organized, involving half of Quebec's student population by April 2012.[2] A third of Quebec students continued to participate in the strike by its 100th day,[3] while a quarter million had participated during its peak.[4] Other students continued to attend their courses.[5]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests

Even a centre-left liberal like me found that protest to be inappropriate.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Moneytoo said:


> I showed your post to my daughter (2nd year med school student), she shared her thoughts on why grade 13th should be brought back and gave examples from a recent gettogether with her high school friends who've graduated from different programs and now realizing it's not easy to find jobs. I never thought it's that common for young people (and/or their parents) to pay thousands of dollars for degrees with a slim chance of getting a job that will justify the expense...


When I was in school, the Govt introduced 'acceleration'. For grade 9 (I think) gifted students went into acceleration, that is they skipped an entire grade... straight to grade 11. This didn't catch on , needless to say.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Imagine that after all these years of parental angst and concern about our son, the shock to learn that he was far ahead of us all along.

In Grade 9 he told his teachers he wanted to be a transit driver. 

They laughed and laughed and said it was a "no brain" occupation.

Today the same teachers write letters to the editor complaining about how much public service transit drivers earn.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Our grandson's mom skipped two grades in elementary school. She was in Grade 11 at 13 years old. She quit school at 14 years old.

My brother's daughter was designated as "gifted". She attended special classes and educational camps.

She had a bright future all mapped out for her and then one day she ran off with a guy who joined the Canadian army....and that was that.

The education field is littered with the broken hearts of parents..............LOL.

At least if education was offered online for free, broken dreams wouldn't come with a student loan as a keepsake.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Or responsibility.

Many people I grew up with hid from the real world in university for years. Some graduated with multiple useless degrees, but they knew it was better than having to deal with the real world. 

I agree that the truly gifted can get their education paid for, lots of scholarships out there, but I also know there's multiple forms of intelligence. "Book smarts" is very different than "street smarts". 

My kids all go through a gifted program but, instead of having them skip grades leading to social issues as they get pulled out of their peer group and face being ostracized, I opted to have them get a broader education doing lateral enhancement. 

I encourage them to explore new areas to keep stimulated and interested. If that meant they took a welding option or small engine repair, i never blinked an eye. We also encouraged them to try sports (any sport they wanted from traditional to more remote). The sports we've done include hockey, football, volleyball, basketball, rugby, Aussie rules football, touch football, track, horseback riding, swimming...they were limited to only two sports at one time.

My girls have played traditionally "boys" sports, all of them are expected to finish a season if they begin. They may not be the best, sometimes they are, sometimes they are terrible, but they do it to have fun. They've quit many due to the politics that comes with parents and coaches, but there is always something else to try (instead of complaining that they don't like playing that one sport). 

My kids can operate heavy equipment, can deal with large animals, do basic vehicle maintenance, patch a tire, wire a house, frame a wall, can cook better than most adults, and don't see any barriers to doing what they want.

I would also point out that the government gives some very generous grant should you want to actually take advantage of them. As for the poor, they could use the child tax credit as the basis (the money is supposed to be for the kids after all) for the $2500/year resp to maximize the grants. It's what I did even when I was dead broke. 18 years of $3000 plus interest (before scholarships) should be more than enough for post secondary education, they may not go to oxford, but they could get a local post secondary education.

Of course, it's probably easier to complain about the high cost of education and ask the government for more "free money" than it is to actually save using the existing programs. Just like teaching your kids to ask the government for more money is easier than teaching them to overcome any barrier.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

sags said:


> At least if education was offered online for free, broken dreams wouldn't come with a student loan as a keepsake.


I guess as with other things in life, only in theory "anyone can do it" - but in reality, you really have to be special (in the original meaning of the word )


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## KaoruChiwa (May 21, 2017)

haha.. i love that part. i am always for that $1.50 charge. my sis was gonna pay 150k for a PHD...


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