# Downtown areas of Hamilton



## Darisha (Feb 11, 2012)

Looking at moving to Hamilton. Can I get some recommendations on what areas of the downtown (can be slightly west of downtown) is reasonable to live in? Something for a first time homeowner, inexpensive but reasonably safe.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Anything south of Barton is good. Hamilton real estate is hugely undervalued at the moment, so you're smart to buy there right now and with the Go train station there and a new one going in along North James your house is sure to go up in value. Have you found a Realtor? I don't have any suggestions, just curious.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

South of Barton is a good generalization, but If you move west of downtown, I'd try to stay south of King. If you cross over the 403/6 Everything is pretty good.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

To be honest you have to be careful where you buy in 'downtown' Hammer. I've lived here my whole life so I think I have the cred to speak on this. There are pockets of good right next to pockets of not so much...Once you get too west you will be paying higher prices as plenty of investors have income properties due to McMaster University (guilty here) being close by. You can try somewhat in the Locke St area but again....not sure what your budget is but its more expensive but a better area. Do you mind sharing your budget?


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## Darisha (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks guys. My budget is $140,000 but if possible keeping closer to $100,000 is ideal. Something with a rental suite would be amazing. My family is mostly tradespeople so a fixxer upper is no problem.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

GOOD NIGHT NURSE! 100k in Hamilton? For a house? With a rental suite? You're dreaming in technicolour!

I spent 30 years in Hamilton, and while it's cheaper than other places, it isn't 100k in a good neighbourhood with a rental suite good.

Here's what your going to get for about 140k:

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=11521529&PidKey=538516759
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=11566291&PidKey=2072991126

And for 100k? Nothing you want to live in.

You're going to need at least 250k to end up in something in a decent neighbourhood with a rental suite.


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## Darisha (Feb 11, 2012)

Really? A fair number of people have told me different. There are two homes I am going to see tonight, both in reasonable areas. They may be crap but I'll see shortly. Dont forget what I said about a fixxer upper; as long as the bones are good i can have it renovated for an extremely good price. Plus I dont expect a pretty house for my budget.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi Darisha - I'm sorry but I'm with crazyjacks on this one. Not sure what people have told you different, but perhaps its the perception of what is considered a 'good' neighbourhood thats different. For 100k make sure you are locking your doors at night. For 140 a major fixer upper in an 'ok' neighbouhood (maybe- but a huge stretch). Dont get me wrong. There are lots of nice places in Hamilton, and I certainly didnt grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth- I was raised in a rough part of town that my parents still live in, but even their house would go for 180 min. Good luck!


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck Darisha. Let us know. I agree with thebomb too, what is a "good" neighbourhood? My wife's parents live on Parkdale, about a stones throw from Queenstone. A decent little neighbourhood, but they are on a very busy road.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Hi Darisha- ya- sorry, I do wish you the best of luck. Just skeptical thats all. Didnt mean to rain on your parade. I suppose we should be commending you on not getting in over your head and overspending.


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## MundellSells (Apr 14, 2012)

Hey Darisha,

Curious as to where the properties are that you are/have viewed in Hamilton. I live in and sell real estate in Hamilton, have lived here my 43 years and been buying and selling for family use and for investment purposes for 10 plus years. Fell free to ask away should you have any questions...

Mark


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## Darisha (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone. My brother looked at 102 Victoria, misunderstanding about it not being detatched so he's not intetested. 65 Clyde seemed ok but worried about a sauna and hot tub in the basement, could have issues. We may have to up our budget as suggested, but we're still hoping to keep it low, $160k max. and single family may be ok if theres enough bedrooms tp rent two out and an extra bath. The search continues!


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Darisha- that is one interesting part of town.... have you taken a trip down there at night? I dont know the area very well but I know of the area. Are you moving to Hamilton from out of town? Or are you looking for a rental property? Wise choice moving the budget up.....


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## Darisha (Feb 11, 2012)

I've been in the area at night but not often enough to really know what it's like. My brother lives in Oakville and will be moving into the house, I may or may not end up buying it with him, not sure yet.

Considering I considered buying a house two houses from Pigeon Park in Vancouver and lived downtown (West End) Winnipeg for 7 years, I am used to sketchy neighbourhoods so I don't mind them myself, I know generally when to go out and when to not go out. I've always found areas were considered worse than they were by people who didn't actually live there, which I think is a fair general comment (not to know anyone's opinion here, please continue giving them because the more opinions the better!). My brother however will be coming home occasionally using transit after the supper hour, and in winter that can mean coming home in the dark. My brother also knows he won't get a pristine area for this price range we're looking at. It's interesting because the crime maps show most of the crimes occurring closer to downtown, but a few more serious/violent crimes occurring just south of Baron along Kenliworth or along Barton near Gage. The rest of the crimes reported occurred west, between Wentworth and Bay, anywhere between Main and Burlington.

A bit off the point, but the house I had the chance to purchase for $100K near Pigeon Park recently sold for over $500,000  

What about the area along Barton the further East you go? Say around Paling or Strathearne? Does it get better generally the more east you go?


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Re: the crime reports- sounds bang on from what I know of the area. To put it in perspective for you, I grew up near Barton and Kenilworth and yup- not the greatest part of town. I would say that moving east vs. west (unless you get beyond James St) is a better bet. There are some nice war time homes east near Paling. I admit I would feel safer there than the other side of town near Wentworth or Wellington. Good luck again.


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

My wife lived on Parkdale for 20+ years. I'd live in that area. My sister lived on Barton and Sherman for a while, West Ave at Barton for awhile. There is no way I'd live in that area. I'd take my chances in a tent in the woods. It comes down to what you're used to though.

Using Barton as an example, the further east, the better. As a great big Hamilton generalization? Everything from Barton and the Red Hill to the lake: Really no good. Then add everything from Main and Ottawa: No good.

I really mean it. There are nice pockets, especially up against the mountain but everybody that could get out of the city did, and now they live in Dundas, Burlington, Stoney Creek or the Mountain.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Wow, a house for $250k... Am I the only one thinking this is super cheap?


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

You can certainly get a nice place in Hamilton for 250. I work in Toronto and always get grief from everyone when I say I live in Hamilton and do that commute each day. I also own a home on a court with a nice yard and in a good neghbourhood, double garage, on the mountain etc. It has certainly gone up in value since we bought it, but even now it would sell for about 310-320. I dont know that I can get a good condo for that price in Toronto. You must be from out western Canada or the GTA??


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

I could get you a 6 bedroom, 2 bath century home with almost an acre within walking distance to Lake Erie for 250K.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Causalien said:


> Wow, a house for $250k... Am I the only one thinking this is super cheap?


It's Hamilton, Cause.
As you know : location, location, location.
No offense to Hamilton-ians.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

$250k gets you a nice condo in Montreal, not a house.

So curious. What's wrong with Hamilton besides proximity to Detroit?
I looked at the rent and it's the same as other areas of the country. So a rental unit is very attractive. Why isn't everyone flocking to this?


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> It's Hamilton, Cause.
> As you know : location, location, location.
> No offense to Hamilton-ians.


Lol. No offense taken Harold. We're actually happy to have people just to go on thinking what they think of Hamilton. As you say, location, location, location. And there's a good reason it's called Cootes Paradise.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Causalien said:


> So curious. What's wrong with Hamilton besides proximity to Detroit?


Hamilton is not close to Detroit - you are probably thinking of Windsor.
Hamilton is close to Niagara Falls.
Not far from the US border though - maybe about a 45 min. drive to the Queenston Lewiston bridge to Buffalo.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> Hamilton is not close to Detroit - you are probably thinking of Windsor.
> Hamilton is close to Niagara Falls.
> Not far from the US border though - maybe about a 45 min. drive to the Queenston Lewiston bridge to Buffalo.


Yeah Windsor, so if this is not Windsor, then there's even less reason why housing should be cheap when applying east coast valuation. I brought up the map and compare distance to Toronto with the length of Montreal just to make sure I am geographically not too far. Every indicator, from an outsider's point of view, says it should not be this cheap. There's also none of these "crossing the moat" problem with Montreal where RE drops by a lot if you have to cross the river due to the daily hour long congestion.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Causalien said:


> Every indicator, from an outsider's point of view, says it should not be this cheap. There's also none of these "crossing the moat" problem with Montreal where RE drops by a lot if you have to cross the river due to the daily hour long congestion.


Well, if you have to drive from Hamilton to Toronto as you suggested, during the rush hours - it is not a pleasant drive at all.
You are looking at nearly 2 hrs. of teeth grinding, hair pulling, nail biting, middle finger exercises, and refined French speaking.
There is the GO Train and/or VIA Rail, but that is your typical hour and half of cramped, commuter train journey.

As for Hamilton itself, I am not a RE agent and I don't live there so can't give you specific reasons for the apparently cheap valuations, but Hamilton is (or was) a primarily manufacturing town.
Therefore, the decline of manufacturing, closing of factories, and lack of other alternative local jobs, has hit it hard.
Property taxes are high.
Many of the houses are dated, in need of maintenance, etc. and not a lot of new construction coming up.

A better alternative would be Waterdown, which is close to Hamilton but has better property values (i.e. more expensive).

If you are interested in a property within $250K, you can also consider Stoney Creek, which is between Hamilton and Niagara Falls.

All of the above is from the POV of living.
If you are primarily interested in investing, I don't have a clue


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

It's mainly for investing. The fact that it has a university is what did it. Speaking of which I should probably look up Queens university area.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

You could also look into Brock university in St Catharines


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## Darisha (Feb 11, 2012)

Paling just a block south of Barton.... sketchy or not too bad?


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Causalien said:


> It's mainly for investing. The fact that it has a university is what did it.


Right, but the university has been there for a long, long time.
Nothing has changed, and is not expected to in the next little while.
Therefore, inspite of the univ. and other pre-existing factors, if a particular area's RE is being discounted relative to nearby areas, there have to be strong reasons for it.
Consider, for instance, the town of Burlington.
Just a few mins. drive from Hamilton.
Yet, a completely different RE profile.

All I am saying is there are usually valid reasons for RE that appears cheap.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

And that's why I am scratching my head. If the rental income flow is steady (enough students), I don't care if the prices don't appreciate. 
In any case, it sounds like a good spot that I should add to my investigation when I visit next time.


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## Andrej (Feb 25, 2010)

I have a house for sale near Hamilton General Hospital for $125k. 3 bed, 1 bath in good shape. From first glance the neighbourhood is troubled but you couldn't ask for better neighbours. It's time for us to move on. Shoot me a PM if you'd like more info or if you'd like to come have a look.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Causalien said:


> And that's why I am scratching my head. If the rental income flow is steady (enough students), I don't care if the prices don't appreciate.
> In any case, it sounds like a good spot that I should add to my investigation when I visit next time.


Yeah, you are welcome to check it out in person.
I guess I just don't see the screaming bargains that you think are there.

As I said above, there are plenty of good reasons why the valuations are what they are.

The RE market in these parts is pretty efficient, so such market mis-pricings don't last very long, if they even arise in the first place.
If anything, this entire segment from Whitby/Oshawa in the east to Cambridge/Kitchener/Waterloo on the West is way over-priced.

caveat emptor


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## crooked beat (Jan 19, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> Well, if you have to drive from Hamilton to Toronto as you suggested, during the rush hours - it is not a pleasant drive at all.
> ......
> Property taxes are high.
> Many of the houses are dated, in need of maintenance, etc. and not a lot of new construction coming up.


Take a look at the south mountain, south of Rymal Road. Plenty of new houses going up. No that far from the LINC.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Darisha said:


> Paling just a block south of Barton.... sketchy or not too bad?


Dependant on my budget and circumstances I might consider Paling. All the streets around there are hit or miss.


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## thebomb (Feb 3, 2012)

Causalien said:


> It's mainly for investing. The fact that it has a university is what did it. Speaking of which I should probably look up Queens university area.


I have no idea how to do multipe quotes in 1 reply. Anyways I have an investement property in Westdale (West Hamilton) rented to McMaster University students. Cant beat it. Always rented, make a little profit each year. Part of the retirement portfolio....lots of good properties there. They also recently moved an engineering arm of the federal goverment close by from Ottawa. So lots of employees relocating. I believe its called CANMET. I would easily buy another if I had time to manage 2 rentals there.


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