# Trumps test positive?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

...obviously "fake news", no?


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

No both him and the wife, markets set to drop at open. This could be an opportunity to pick up a few shares on some of our watch lists. There have been several world leaders that have caught COVID but my my guess is this will unsettle markets a little more especially with an election around the corner. This will pass but may be a good opportunity to top up some quality shares for the long term. The big unkown is at his age does he have any underlying medical conditions?


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

But, this is good new, why is the market dropping?


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## newfoundlander61 (Feb 6, 2011)

Its the most serious health threat to a sitting American president in decades.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Thal81 said:


> But, this is good new, why is the market dropping?


How is this good news?
Do you think Pence will do better than Trump?

If Trump beats COVID that's a HUGE political win for him, enough to sway the election.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

guess this puts a damper on the next 2 debates? hmmmmm...?


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I wish him well, and I expect he'll be back at work just like Erin O'Toole. Trump will claim the virus is no worse than a mild flu and he knew that all along and the US people will begin to believe him.

ltr


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I think that Trump will need to encourage mask wearing and other precautions.
I think that Trump will be mocked for his past history of "Nothing To Worry About".
It is almost criminal that with full knowledge that his closest aid had been infected, Trump still chose to attend a fund raising event on Thursday.
I think he will lose support among the electorate.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> How is this good news?
> Do you think Pence will do better than Trump?
> 
> If Trump beats COVID that's a HUGE political win for him, enough to sway the election.


He really shouldn't get any credit for being careless enough to catch COVID. Maybe he should have asked sleepy Joe if he had any extra masks for his aides.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Did Trump give his aid the virus or did Hope Hicks give Trump the virus?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ According to the news... the latter as she came down with the symptoms first (Wednesday) which alerted her boss to get tested. Now her boss can give her a medal for the freebie.


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## Juggernaut92 (Aug 9, 2020)

At this point if he still wins I would not be surprised...


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> He really shouldn't get any credit for being careless enough to catch COVID. Maybe he should have asked sleepy Joe if he had any extra masks for his aides.


You're right, but if he beats it, he'll be the tough old ******* who will fight and win against anything.

Politics is an interesting game, and I realized watching T&T that the reaction doesn't match what "should" happen.

I kept getting angry that Trudeau can break laws, and violate ethics guidelines, and people still support him.
They SHOULD be outraged at his behaviour, but they're not.

That's what all these people (including myself) don't realize, or take forever to realize.

For better or worse, Trump supporters appreciate his peace agreements, his law and order, anti-racist policies, MAGA platform. 
People dicker about how much of jerk he is, but that's beside the point.

He's standing up and protecting Americans, and he's shown that no matter the pressure people try to apply, he won't give up. That's something his supports DO get behind.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't think Trump getting the virus and recovering will make a material difference in voting. Whether he gets hospitalized and recovers, or doesn't get hospitalized at all may get him some sympathy vote and less loss of votes due to his craziness such as blowing another debate, but on the other hand, it crimps (perhaps stops) his rallies and campaigning with more of his campaign team also under isolation and unable to visually rally the base. 

It is simply too early to tell because we don't know if Pence will also test positive, or half of the WH staff, cabinet and aides, nor do we know if Biden might test positive because of proximity to Trump on Tuesday night. There is a lot more to unfold here over the next week and we have no idea what the breadth of this yet will be.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I think it is about the motivation to vote and all his No Mask Libertarian followers are crestfallen.
When Trump said the virus would disappear, it seems that his political support has disappeared instead.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Perhaps he will self medicate. After all, in the past he has listed a litany of options to fight covid.


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

jargey3000 said:


> ...obviously "fake news", no?


Well, it is not fake news but perhaps whole thing is fake ?

Just think of it. He is behind the poll badly. This could be a great strategy to get some vote.

Do not need to debate under less friendly moderator like fox news Wallace.
Do not need to face all the hostile reporters at press to answer any questions.
All he needs is just keep twitting.

In 2 weeks, he will come out .... Well, somebody here have already said it here.

Sorry, for the speculation


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

future quote from Trump:
"The doctors all said they'd never seen anything like it! It was probably the greatest recovery by anyone ...of all time!"


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Benting said:


> Well, it is not fake news but perhaps whole thing is fake ?
> Sorry, for the speculation


What if Putin sent an infected agent into the Oval Office?
What if the Deep State contaminated Trump's Kleenex stash?

I did read about a truckload of virus samples that was stolen off a hijacked truck in Africa about 2 months ago.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

He'll need to isolate 10 days minimum and has a 95% chance of survival...he'll have immunity after so that problem will be solved. Hope Biden is OK and escapes the virus.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

calm said:


> What if Putin sent an infected agent into the Oval Office?
> What if the Deep State contaminated Trump's Kleenex stash?
> 
> I did read about a truckload of virus samples that was stolen off a hijacked truck in Africa about 2 months ago.


That sounds kind of far fetched.
China and Russia already have massive stockpiles of viruses.

If you want to get all conspiracy theory, stuff like this is much more interesting.


https://news.yahoo.com/suspected-sars-virus-and-flu-found-in-luggage-fbi-report-describes-chinas-biosecurity-risk-144526820.html


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> He'll need to isolate 10 days minimum and has a 95% chance of survival...he'll have immunity after so that problem will be solved. Hope Biden is OK and escapes the virus.


There is evidence there might be a short term immunity.

I don't wish Biden ill, but he won't be president long anyway, at best he's just a stepping stone for Harris.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

More people testing positive in the WH. The situation is dire, chaotic and spinning out of control.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> More people testing positive in the WH. The situation is dire, chaotic and spinning out of control.


The situation has been dire, chaotic and spinning out of control since Trump took office.

Maybe with Trump in isolation they'll get a better government.
We sure did when Trudeau had his COVID19 isolation.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

I think it's more likely that the WH is trying to cover up the extent of the spread than that it's a hoax by Trump. They all were very lax at COVID precautions in the WH, AF1, and at events and rallies.

Barack Obama: "Hope is contagious."
Donald Trump: "Now he tells me."


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Biden, Pence, and Harris have all tested negative.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Spudd said:


> Biden, Pence, and Harris have all tested negative.


Encouraging but those tests will have to be continually repeated. The test is only valid for that instant in time. A lot can change in 24 hours, or 48 hours, etc. It can take multiple days for a positive test to develop.

A key positive message for Americans in general would be if a significant portion of Trump's campaign team and WH contingent tests positive. Given that Trump's team has mostly disregarded the use of masks, having a significant percentage of the team testing positive could do more for the benefits of masking than any other single activity. Could quiet down some of his more obnoxious followers.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Every few minutes more people are announcing they have been infected from being at a Trump event.

Senator Mike Lee, head of Notre Dame University, reporters and staff.........it is snowballing. Donors who met with Trump are freaking out.

It will take days or weeks to find out who is going to be infected and how well they do in treatment.

The "testing" the WH uses has a 30% rate of failure, but the WH and Republicans continue to show their unwillingness to follow proper protocols.

All contacts should be quarantined. It takes days or weeks to reveal infections and then weeks to reach the full impact of symptoms.

The continued denials of the threat will only make it worse. Testing doesn't prevent infection.

I think that unless some of them start dropping dead or being very sick.........they will not change.

They forgot all about Herman Cain pretty pretty quickly.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Pence was extensively in close proximity to Trump with neither of them wearing a mask shortly before the President's positive diagnosis. Yet the WH says Pence tested negative so he does not have to quarantine.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

A negative test doesn't mean you won't develop an infection. It just means the infection, if there, is not detectable yet.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Benting said:


> Do not need to debate under less friendly moderator like fox news Wallace.


Wallace has been a registered Democrat for decades. His one-sided performance in the debate should have clued you in to that fact.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump is now reported to have had a fever all day, and is being given an experimental drug.

I am thinking they wouldn't be giving the President of the US an experimental drug if there wasn't a good reason to do so.

I wonder if he is in worse shape than they say.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

News changing fast. Trump is now on the way to Walter Reed Hospital.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

I am wondering if he walks to the helicopter or is in a stretcher?
I gotta be honest and say as much as I totally disliked Trump policies, I feel sorry for the guy knowing he and his wife both have Covid-19.
Maybe they stalled this move until after the markets closed for the weekend.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

If you do not think you have a virus in you think again ? When I googled how many viruses in average human one source said 380 trillion. So what if someone has COVID it does not even make the top 10 for deaths. Never before have people been locked down the healthy over a virus. The in your face in your wallet dictator politicians could have us locked in our homes forever for having a virus.


They need to stop testing for COVID, contact tracing & Locking people in their homes. If someone is sick enough they go to the hospital.



Chief medical officer Pfizer says Second wave faked on false positive COVID tests Pandemic is over. For some reason site would not let me down load a link concerning chief medical officer of Pfizer so you will have to google it. Though will have to do it before it is removed from internet as they are censoring everything.

Just like this site where my posts were first deleted for going against the Sheeple then were hidden & still are under Not main stream Covid ?

If people act this way on this site calling for fines & jail time for those that do not follow tyrants orders do you really trust the power hungry politicians which attracts power tripping people. They will not care about your freedom & rights & want to control you even more.


Human nature is human nature & stays the same which is reflected in price charts of the markets over the years. How many on this site were calling for & still calling for masks, contact tracing & lock downs over a virus that was intentionally hyped up to kill the economy. The politicians & some billionaires love the power & control & you might be calling for people to wear masks based on bogus science or locking down the healthy but @ some point it is going to effect you i.e., getting planted with a micro chip or forced vaccination with who knows what ? then you will care when it effects you. Just like Nazi Germany none (very few) cared till it effected them.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Looks like Trump got treated with Regeneron's anti-body's and off to military hospital.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I wonder if he has experienced some side effects from the cocktail of drugs.......or maybe they are worried that he might.

The tweet by his son Eric was a little ominous by asking for people to pray.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Giving an experimental drug to the POTUS seems like a bad idea unless he is in quite bad shape.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump has had a fever all day. It means inflammation has started and isn't a good sign.

They will be able to monitor and control the fever better in the hospital. He may be getting steroids intravenously to reduce it.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

andrewf said:


> Giving an experimental drug to the POTUS seems like a bad idea unless he is in quite bad shape.


 They all ready have a drug that works for Covid & will keep more money in our pocket instead of giving money to big Pharma. No need to give big pharma money & immunity for developing a dangerous vaccine.

Hydroxychloroquine has been around for years the doctors that come out & says it works have all been censored by face book, you tube & google.

CNN cuts down anything Trump says weather it is true or false, good or evil


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Doesn't seem too bad yet. Antibodies is pretty standard treatment.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312158400352972800


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

In hospital now under abundance of caution,


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Eder said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312158400352972800


Trump's lips are moving in that video, but if you listen closely it is actually Vladimir Putin's voice.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> Doesn't seem too bad yet. Antibodies is pretty standard treatment.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312158400352972800


"pretty standard treatment"

As in experimental and not approved for use = standard?
They're taking some risks, and being very aggressive, it's nowhere near "normal" treatment.

To be fair, he is the President of the US, they should be pulling out all the stops to keep him alive.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> A key positive message for Americans in general would be if a significant portion of Trump's campaign team and WH contingent tests positive. Given that Trump's team has mostly disregarded the use of masks, having a significant percentage of the team testing positive could do more for the benefits of masking than any other single activity. Could quiet down some of his more obnoxious followers.


Could do the whole world some good, actually, for people to realize that this is a real threat.

I hope Trump recovers.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Kellyanne Conway positive Covid-19.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

james4beach said:


> Could do the whole world some good, actually, for people to realize that this is a real threat.
> 
> I hope Trump recovers.


 The pandemic in poverty kills more people then the virus


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Latest bulletin says Trump has been given Remdesivir by his doctor and is resting comfortably at Walter Reed hospital. He had not been given oxygen. Has been sending out Tweets as usual.

According to Global News the experimental treatment he was given earlier, was a mix of 2 antibodies, in effect a vaccine only faster. It was made by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals.

This should put to rest all the baloney about Trump not believing in science and advocating unconventional treatments.









Here’s what we know so far about Trump’s experimental coronavirus treatment - National | Globalnews.ca


Trump was given the experimental drug at the White House on Friday before he was taken to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.




globalnews.ca


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

:) lonewolf said:


> The pandemic* in poverty* kills more people then the virus


 .. now you just realize this?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It sounds like Trump was deteriorating rapidly and the doctors have poured everything they can at him.

The US government never revealed to the public how sick Franklin D. Roosevelt was.

This is the last picture of him, taken the day before he died. A watercolor portrait of him was left unfinished.

_The *Unfinished Portrait* is a watercolor of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt by Elizabeth Shoumatoff. Shoumatoff was commissioned to paint a portrait of President Roosevelt and started her work around noon on April 12, 1945. At lunch, Roosevelt complained of a headache and subsequently collapsed. The President, who had suffered a cerebral hemorrhage (stroke), died later that day.
Shoumatoff never finished the portrait, but she later painted a new, largely identical one, based on memory. The Unfinished Portrait hangs at Roosevelt's retreat, the Little White House, in Warm Springs, Georgia, with its finished counterpart beside it._


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> This should put to rest all the baloney about Trump not believing in science and advocating unconventional treatments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trump believes only in himself. He will do whatever it takes to get reelected. He knows that him getting the virus could really cost him the election, so he will do anything to make sure it can be beaten. His strength of conviction goes only as far as what will move him forward.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

GreatLaker said:


> Pence was extensively in close proximity to Trump with neither of them wearing a mask shortly before the President's positive diagnosis. Yet the WH says Pence tested negative so he does not have to quarantine.


Yes if you have been exposed to the virus, you are supposed to quarantine for 10 days or until you test negative.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Understand what your seeing. The headlines Trump is doing better on these drugs. The people are going to want these drugs. POTUS is advertising theses drugs. These drugs stocks are going to rally.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

:) lonewolf said:


> Understand what your seeing. The headlines Trump is doing better on these drugs. The people are going to want these drugs. *POTUS is advertising theses drugs.* These drugs stocks are going to rally.


 ... so have you stockpiled them yet? Hope you do realize that the Dump owns shares (or interests) in the company(s) that manufacture these Covid-free miracle drugs.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so have you stockpiled them yet? Hope you do realize that the Dump owns shares (or interests) in the company(s) that manufacture these Covid-free miracle drugs.


How much does he have invested?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

kcowan said:


> Yes if you have been exposed to the virus, you are supposed to quarantine for 10 days or until you test negative.


He gets tested 2x / day...no need to quarantine. Same with Biden.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... so have you stockpiled them yet? Hope you do realize that the Dump owns shares (or interests) in the company(s) that manufacture these Covid-free miracle drugs.


So do most people saving for retirement.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> How much does he have invested?


 ... according to this article, minimum $99 worth with maximum wide-net open, considering the list of who's who's.

Trump’s personal stake in the malaria-drug maker Sanofi could be as small as $99


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

nobleea said:


> Trump believes only in himself. He will do whatever it takes to get reelected. He knows that him getting the virus could really cost him the election, so he will do anything to make sure it can be beaten. His strength of conviction goes only as far as what will move him forward.


In other words he is human and does not want to die?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Eder said:


> So do most people saving for retirement.


 .. except for poor retirees.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> It sounds like Trump was deteriorating rapidly and the doctors have poured everything they can at him.


They haven't even given him supplemental Oxygen according to his doctor. How is that "poured everything they can at him"

You're just making up stuff. I'd ask you to substantiate your claims, but you won't.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

An experimental unproven cocktail of drugs and the maximum dose of another unproven drug would be considered intensive therapy, I would think.

Doctors interviewed don't believe the WH doctors. They say oxygen therapy would be the first thing they would give to someone with breathing problems.

It is only a non-invasive tube under your nostril to provide oxygen, so why wouldn't they give it ?

Don't believe everything Trump's doctors say. According to them, Trump is a svelte man in unusually perfect health.

His test results show he takes medication for high blood pressure, hardening of the arteries, high cholestorol, and is moderately obese.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Latest is he has no fever...cough & congestion improving...walking around the hospital suite telling staff he feels ready to leave. I follow with interest as a delayed election is in no investors interest.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> An experimental unproven cocktail of drugs and the maximum dose of another unproven drug would be considered intensive therapy, I would think.
> 
> Doctors on the TV don't believe the WH doctors. They say oxygen therapy would be the first thing they would give to someone with breathing problems.
> 
> Why wouldn't they ?


1. It's not unproven, it's unapproved.
2. There are no reports that he has breathing problems, so why would they give him oxygen?
If his O2 saturation fell, Oxygen would make sense, but further reports say his vitals are fine.

I have to seriously question the competence of any "TV Doctor" who would prescribe supplemental oxygen for someone with a fever and fatigue, but otherwise clear vitals.

My point is that according to all published data they are not "pouring everything" at him, nor is that even appropriate, based on the currently available data.

The fact that you won't back up your claim suggests you're more interested in spreading your false information than seeking the truth, or holding an honest discussion.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You go ahead and believe the same doctors who said Trump is some kind of health Superhero......when all the evidence says otherwise.

These are the same doctors who told everyone at the WH they didn't need to wear masks. Great medical advice there.


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

2 political parties, one with mask on and the other without mask around public. Go check how many are infected in each group.
Latest, campaign manager Bill Stepien who travelled with the debate team has tested positive.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> You go ahead and believe the same doctors who said Trump is some kind of health Superhero......when all the evidence says otherwise.
> 
> These are the same doctors who told everyone at the WH they didn't need to wear masks. Great medical advice there.



Back to my initial point. 
You made a claim that they were doing everything, there is no data to suggest they are doing everything.
It's a false claim, you're back to just making s$# up.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

You are right. They haven't put him on a ventilator yet that we know of.

Unless you know of some other therapy they haven't tried yet. I would think they have already given him blood thinners and steroids.

A one-day miracle is highly unlikely. The virus takes days to settle into the tissues and blood cells. It manifests itself fully days or weeks later.

ER doctors say........the patient is fine one minute and on a ventilator the next.

On the drugs he is taking....they are unproven for COVID. Anecdotal evidence is not proof and doesn't replace long term studies.

Trump's doctors had to get special approval to give him the drug cocktail from the FDA. Permission is reserved for the most dire life and death situations.


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## Benting (Dec 21, 2016)

Hope he'll be fully recovered.
Just like to see if his team will be wearing mask from now on !


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A one day miracle would feed into all the "hoax" theories.

It would more likely be a false positive from a test that has a 30% failure rate.

Maybe he only had a cold or small amount of bronchitis, if that were the case.

But that would mean his doctors went into full panic mode. That isn't good either.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

From CNN.

"The President's vitals over last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care. We are still not on a clear path to a full recovery," the source told White House pool reporters after the briefing from his doctors. 

Another "unnamed source", I guess we'll get the truth in a few days.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I watched the doctor briefing...none of this was said.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> I watched the doctor briefing...none of this was said.


That's the point, there are "unnamed" sources spreading false information, which others are repeating.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Reports were that Trump was administered oxygen twice overnight for dangerously low oxygen levels.

The doctors declined to answer the direct question, so it can be safely assumed that Trump received oxygen.

Many of the experts think Trump is sicker than they are saying publicly.

Kellyanne Conway contracted the virus. Her daughter was on Tik Tok saying her mother was 'coughing all over the house".

Hope Hicks was reported to be very ill. It seems the virus is more virulent in this event which could be related to high levels of virus loading.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the "infected" ending up in the hospital.

GOP donors are reported to be very upset with Trump exposing them to the virus. The WH sent them an email telling them to seek medical advice.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Reports were that Trump was administered oxygen twice overnight for dangerously low oxygen levels.
> 
> The doctors declined to answer the direct question, so it can be safely assumed that Trump received oxygen.
> 
> ...


Please substantiate these claims.

Reports are that sags is making crap up, and quoting unnamed sources because he's a Russian plant.


You're assuming that he was put on oxygen for a medically valid reason. But no evidence at all that is the case.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The media has their own trustworthy sources built up after years of Trump adminstration lies.

It was media reporting by Bloomberg that revealed Hope Hicks was infected. Most of the news is coming out "before" it is announced by the WH.

The Trump administration is playing catch up with news sources, which apparently are very good since they are so consistently accurate.

A lot of news is being posted live and anonymously on Twitter by people who still work in the Trump administration.

The news media went around the news embargo by the Trump administration by verifying each other's stories with their own sources.

It is a ground up system that ensures the quality and accuracy of the reporting. Very clever actually.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Sorry I responded to you...I have Sags on ignore so wasn't aware.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The media has their own trustworthy sources built up after years of Trump adminstration lies.
> 
> It was media reporting by Bloomberg that revealed Hope Hicks was infected. Most of the news is coming out "before" it is announced by the WH.
> 
> ...


Now do you understand why we're so fearful of Trudeaus push to censor the media?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Chris Christie just announced he tested positive today. He led the debate preparations for Trump in the small room. It appears most in attendance were infected. It could have started there and spread out to the Rose Garden ceremony and then all over the place by now.

Senator Chuck Grassley is 87 and was exposed to the virus but he refuses to take a test. One wonders why.......

Well......the Senate Judiciary Committee has to be "present" to vote on the SCOTUS nomination.

The Judicial Committee has 12 Republicans and 10 Democrats on it.

Already 2 Republicans from the Committee announced they have COVID so the count is now 10 Republicans and 10 Democrats.

If Chuck Grassley were to test positive for COVID, the Committee would be 9 Republicans and 10 Democrats.

Some think RBG is playing around with the Republicans from the "upper room".

Wonder how Mitch McConnell will handle this situation.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump's doctor said he has been infected for 72 hours. The initial statements were he was infected for 36 hours. That means he was actually infected Wednesday AM.

Chris Wallace said that Trump arrived late to the debate and they didn't test him or his family as per the rules. They relied on the "honor" system.

Video from the debate shows Trump's family didn't wear masks and refused a Cleveland Clinic doctor who asked them to put on masks and offered them to the family. Only Melania was wearing a mask.

What did they know and when did they know it ? It matters because of contact tracing. The Trump administration is being very sneaky about information.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> Now do you understand why we're so fearful of Trudeaus push to censor the media?


You are continually posting old news. Your post on the doctors comments were a day old. You should try Twitter to get the latest news on an evolving situation.

On Twitter, you can curate all the news sources that you trust. Personally, I include news sources, insiders and experts I know are valid.

When Trudeau starts controlling personal Twitter feeds from all over the world, I will start to worry.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Trump's doctor said he has been infected for 72 hours. The initial statements were he was infected for 36 hours. That means he was actually infected Wednesday AM.
> 
> Chris Wallace said that Trump arrived late to the debate and they didn't test him or his family. They relied on the "honor" system.
> 
> ...



Yeah, Trump administration is pretty bad.

but when the other option is worse....

Remember Biden was the one slamming travel restrictions when this all started.

I think they should just throw out ballots and randomly pick someone else.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> You are continually posting old news. Your post on the doctors comments were a day old. You should try Twitter to get the latest news on an evolving situation.
> 
> On Twitter, you can curate all the news sources that you trust. Personally, I include news sources, insiders and experts.


What old news?
Was it "old" a the time I posted it?

Again, unsupported accusations.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yes, it was a day old when you posted it.

Trump's doctors were in a picture at the news conference today. There are 7 doctors in the picture. 

Kind of a lot of doctors for a mild cough, don't you think ?


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Eder said:


> Sorry I responded to you...I have Sags on ignore so wasn't aware.


Good.......I have you on "Trudeau conspiracy nut" 🥔


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> Sorry I responded to you...I have Sags on ignore so wasn't aware.


I put him on ignore too, again...

I thought there might be value, but there isn't. He just posts random crap that he got from "somewhere", it's a waste of time engaging with thim.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

It is just as important, maybe more so, what is not said rather than what is said. The doctors simply refused to answer the media question on whether Trump had been on oxygen at all. The only response was no oxygen at Walter Reed. That most likely means he was briefly given oxygen at the WH which would make sense along with it being reported he had been having some trouble breathing...and hence the decision to go to WR.

It has always been that way with every POTUS. As little is said as is possible to avoid little things 'like a spot of oxygen' being turned into something a lot more dramatic and potentially erroneous. I don't care if he had been given oxygen as a precaution in the WH. I will accept that he has not been on oxygen while at WR so far.. We should want him to return to his POTUS duties in due course....but not until he has been given a real life scare for several days. He needs to feel some pain given how he has trashed the US pandemic response.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

MrMatt said:


> I put him on ignore too, again...


Placing members on ignore is a terrible option. I don't feel it should exist at all. It removes you from the conversation.

If a member is so consistently posting objectionable material, then reporting them will result in a ban. 

Alternatively, if it simply goes against someone's opinion, then step up and argue your position.

If I banned everyone who's opinion was different than mine on this forum, I would be the sole member. I guess I could argue with myself.

ltr


----------



## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

Let the chips fall where they may, me thinks 150 Americans of all ages and ailments were unknowingly invited to a White House COVID-19 Lawn party on September 26, 2020 where masks and social distancing were not allowed but hugs and handshakes were.

Now, not like the average American that catches COVID-19, the attendees and their contacts who test positive will be entitled to the best care and treatments currently available for only a few. 

Hopefully President Trump and his beautiful Melania will quickly recover with no side effects and if need be, the interventions of REGENERON'S REGN-COV2 ANTIBODY COCKTAIL, plus zinc, vitamin D, aspirin, melatonin, an antacid called famotidine an the antiviral Remdesivir ... all thought to help fight COVID-19 will work.

Since REGENERON'S REGN-COV2 ANTIBODY COCKTAIL offers greatest improvements in patients who had not mounted their own effective immune response prior to treatment .... results from testing must be available within hours of the first symptoms.
Regeneron's REGN-COV2 Antibody Cocktail Reduced Viral Levels and Improved Symptoms in Non-Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients | Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

nortel'd said:


> ........ aspirin, ......, an antacid ......... all thought to help fight COVID-19....


Well, I take aspirin when I get a headache after reading nonsense on this forum, and I also add antacids when it's really bad, so are you saying that's the cure for COVID-19?

If that's the case, I'm golden.

ltr


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> Placing members on ignore is a terrible option. I don't feel it should exist at all. It removes you from the conversation.
> 
> If a member is so consistently posting objectionable material, then reporting them will result in a ban.
> 
> ...


It's not the different opinion.
It's the repeated, unfounded statements. There are certain users who will say things that are not true, and they pretty much never back up their claim with any data or evidence. 

It's easy enough to chuckle and walk past a flat earther on the street, ignore is the tune them out equivalent here. 

I do want to understand the points of those who disagree, but if you're not going to engage in an honest discussion, it's a waste of everyones time.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> I put him on ignore too, again...
> 
> I thought there might be value, but there isn't. He just posts random crap that he got from "somewhere", it's a waste of time engaging with thim.


Good....it is pointless to debate with anyone who believes all main stream media are corrupt and there is an evil Trudeau plot for censorship afoot.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is also a topic of conversation on the internet that Trump paid no income taxes but enjoys top level care from taxpayer funded health care. 

I think Americans are as angry as hornets and the political tide for Trump is going out.


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## curioso (Nov 22, 2018)

Hummmmm


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

.....hmmmm...this covid news seems to have taken the spotlight off his income taxes....hmmmmm..


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

All administrations are sneaky about information. It is part a politicians stock in trade. This one a bit more and much more loose and easy with the truth.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

CNN is reporting that Trump did not want to go to the hospital because he does not like them and going could make him look weak and sick, which he wants to avoid. But his doctors made him go because better to have him there if necessary than to have to rush him if his condition got worse. So Trump is now saying the doctors wanted him to stay at the WH, but he insisted on going to the hospital to face the virus head on.

The doctor this afternoon was clearly avoiding answering the question of whether Trump was ever on oxygen; Reporter: was the President ever on oxygen since the diagnosis? Doctor: the President is not on oxygen. Reporter: was the President on ever on oxygen since the diagnosis? Doctor: the President was not on oxygen since being admitted to Walter Reed Hospital. (Later it was reported that the President was on oxygen at the WH.) Reporter: when was the President's last negative test? Doctor: leaves quickly.

Obvious attempts to avoid telling the truth.

Meanwhile VP Pence is still planning campaign rallies and the risks that entails, despite the fact that if the President takes a turn for the worse the VP may have to assume the role of President.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Trump this afternoon, thanking the doctors at Walter Reed Hospital and thanking the public for their support and good wishes. He seems to be in good shape and expects to be back at work soon.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> Trump's doctor said he has been infected for 72 hours. The initial statements were he was infected for 36 hours. That means he was actually infected Wednesday AM.
> 
> Chris Wallace said that Trump arrived late to the debate and they didn't test him or his family as per the rules. They relied on the "honor" system.
> 
> ...


If someone has COVID wearing a mask will make it worse. Since it lowers oxygen levels the complete opposite of oxygen therapy

Here is a video showing how they are using bogus science on purpose to get false data so the sheeple wear masks go to the 9 minute mark to see how they conducted the experiment to make it look like masks work.

www.financialsurvivalnetwork.com/2020/10/covid-19-induced-poverty-with-dr-ted-noel/


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It gets kind of tiring seeing 70 year old sellouts battling each other. I include Hillary Clinton when I say that... she was 69 years old in the last election.

Justin Trudeau was 44 years old when he became PM.
Joe Clark (another excellent PM) was only 39 years old.
New Zealand's Jacinda Ardern was just 37 years old when elected as PM... youngest in the world.
Obama was 47 years old
JFK was only 43 years old
Bill Clinton was 46 years old

Trump is actually the oldest man ever elected as President


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

james4beach said:


> It gets kind of tiring seeing 70 year old sellouts battling each other. I include Hillary Clinton when I say that... she was 69 years old in the last election.
> 
> Justin Trudeau was 44 years old when he became PM.
> Joe Clark (another excellent PM) was only 40 years old.
> ...


 Lets hope the US has another election. What comes after Trump scares me. The unelected United Nations wants to control everything.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Interesting Trump video.

He is in the hospital getting emergency care and treatments and they say he is having his vital signs constantly monitored and there he is sitting with no IV bag, no monitor wires.....wearing a long sleeve white shirt with cufflinks and a suit jacket.

I was in the hospital emergency or for surgery maybe 10 times in the past 3 years and the first thing they do is have you undress and wear a gown so they can attend to you quickly if necessary. People know the ones........with the back wide open. Then they hook you up to the monitors and start an IV in case they need to inject meds quickly. I have been poked so much that now I am a "hard poke" and they always have trouble getting one started or drawing blood. Sometimes it takes several nurses or calling the specialist IV nurses in to get it done. That takes time that might mean life or death.......and is why they do it before there is an emergency situation.

A closeup also shows that he is signing a blank piece of paper. I guess they will fill in the details after he signs it.

This situation is just getting more weird as time passes.

Meanwhile more announcements of people getting COVID from the Amy Coney Barrett party.

Her kids were there sitting next to Melania Trump and in front of Kellyanne Conway who are both infected. The kids weren't wearing masks either.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> This situation is just getting more weird as time passes.


I'm pretty sure they would want to avoid alarming the public and probably don't want him to look the same way a typical patient does.

However, it could all be a ruse. I'm not convinced he actually has COVID. It's very hard to know with this guy, and he also has a history of finding doctors to go along with him (even releasing outlandish statements about his health). Both Trump and the White House staff have a very poor track record on truth and transparency.

Trump is a master at manipulating the public. A professional con man.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

There are claims that Trump's doctors are "Spin Doctors".


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

calm said:


> There are claims that Trump's doctors are "Spin Doctors".


The left makes a lot of false claims about Trump. Interestingly though, they have absolutely no interest in Biden's plainly obvious and rapidly declining health.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

These doctor press briefings remind me of video games that have "easter eggs" buried in them. Solve a puzzle and find the egg for a reward.

The doctors are so carefully parsing their words, that they are leaving the media trying to solve the puzzle to find out the truth.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> The left makes a lot of false claims about Trump. Interestingly though, they have absolutely no interest in Biden's plainly obvious and rapidly declining health.


The left wouldn't be terribly disappointed if Biden stepped down and Kamala Harris took over the Presidency. That is actually the eventual plan anyways.

But right now, Biden is "the man of the hour". He is crushing Trump all over the US and may win the Presidency and the Senate.

Honest Joe....Good old Joe....Blue Collar Joe...may achieve what no other candidate, including Harris from progressive California, could have done.

That alone will be a job well done and merit a special addition to Mount Rushmore.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

The argument we are hearing is that the media is demanding truth.
Hour after hour the media is attempting to seed a sense of trust onto the American Scene. Attempts at scooping up some credibility during this crisis.

What is the truth of why America is sanctioning Venezuela?

What is the truth about what America is doing in Nicarauga on this very day?

The media is using this incident (as they do in many instances) to preach about how lucky the viewers are to know the truth is being protected.

The media is presently watching the collapse of American Empire and the truth is not in sight.

Common sense shows us that there is no way that America can survive this crisis for another 18 months at least and have the Greenback remain as the World's Reserve Currency.

We need more truth.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

calm said:


> The argument we are hearing is that the media is demanding truth.
> Hour after hour the media is attempting to seed a sense of trust onto the American Scene. Attempts at scooping up some credibility during this crisis.
> 
> What is the truth of why America is sanctioning Venezuela?
> ...


The media is pushing their agenda. They aren't seeking truth.

As far as the Greenback as the reserve currency, I doubt it.
Gold, Bitcoin and privacy crypto are much more likely.

XMR has been climbing lately.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

_What is the truth of why America is sanctioning Venezuela?_

Venezuela has the biggest oil reserves in the world. They were paying for socialist programs for their people with the oil revenues.

Applying sanctions on the oil, the US destroyed Venezuela's economy and funding for their social programs and then pointed to them as a "socialist" failure.

Why does the US continue to pick on Cuba ? Maybe because the Cubans threw out the US mafia and corrupt businesses ? 

The capitalists who control America don't want socialism to gain any traction in the US. They need boogey men to point to.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> ...If I banned everyone who's opinion was different than mine on this forum, I would be the sole member. I guess I could argue with myself.
> 
> ltr


It is not his opinion that has him on my ignore, it he posts unsubstatiated stuff and that add nothing to the dialog. A waste of space.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> Venezuela has the biggest oil reserves in the world. They were paying for socialist programs for their people with the oil revenues.


And even with the largest oil reserves in the world people were eating their pets so they wouldn't starve. Socialism never works.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

sags said:


> The left wouldn't be terribly disappointed if Biden stepped down and Kamala Harris took over the Presidency. That is actually the eventual plan anyways.


Of course that's the plan. Harris couldn't secure the nomination on her own merit but the people who make the decisions wanted her. The only way for that to happen was to make her VP for someone with one foot in the grave.

The Democrats are so crooked that they even cheat in their own leadership race.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> The Democrats are so crooked that they even cheat in their own leadership race.


Nobody comes close to touching the level of crookedness of the Trump whitehouse.

Pardoning his friends from crimes, running shady tax schemes, obstructing justice by stopping FBI investigations into his own wrongdoings, inviting foreign powers to interfere with elections... this guy and his swamp-mates are some of the most crooked politicians you'll find anywhere.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> The media is pushing their agenda. They aren't seeking truth.


I think I did not explain myself properly.

There is no trust in MSM. I think the media is using this crisis to talk about trust and imply that the media is on Your Side.

I'm thinking that if the economy crashes, there will be no internet. No government wants anybody to spread rumours except the government.
There will always be TV and radio.

How do people cash-in the BitCoin without internet?


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Some update from his doc.

_*U.S. President Donald Trump’s medical team says he could be discharged from Walter Reed National Military Medical Center as soon as Monday.*_

_*Trump was admitted to the center Friday after having been diagnosed with COVID-19 on Thursday. Doctors say he is doing well, and that if his state remains as good as it is, he could be out of the treatment center tomorrow.*_


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

kcowan said:


> It is not his opinion that has him on my ignore, it he posts unsubstantiated stuff and that add nothing to the dialog. A waste of space.


Aww, come on kcowan, you're missing out on great stuff.

OK, as long as you don't have _me_ banned (a distinct possibility), I'll reveal below the text of the post directly above yours that you may have missed with your ban. Seriously, this is golden. You can't make this stuff up.
-----
_"Venezuela has the biggest oil reserves in the world. They were paying for socialist programs for their people with the oil revenues.
Applying sanctions on the oil, the US destroyed Venezuela's economy and funding for their social programs and then pointed to them as a "socialist" failure.
Why does the US continue to pick on Cuba ? Maybe because the Cubans threw out the US mafia and corrupt businesses ?
The capitalists who control America don't want socialism to gain any traction in the US. They need boogey men to point to"._
-----
How can you not get a kick out of this post that reads like the standard Communist Party line? It's funny stuff.

Myself, I feel the need to read all posts. Perhaps it harkens back to the old phrase, "Know thine enemy". 

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Here are some facts, referred to by the ignorant as "fake news".

If the US imposed an embargo on Alberta oil......what do you think their budget would look like ?

*Fact:*

*Venezuela* holds 299,953,000,000 barrels of proven *oil reserves* as of 2016, *ranking 1st in the world and accounting for about 18.2% of the world's total oil reserves *of 1,650,585,140,000 barrels. *Venezuela* has proven *reserves* equivalent to 1,374.2 times its annual consumption.









Venezuela Oil Reserves, Production and Consumption Statistics - Worldometer


Current and historical Reserves, Production, and Consumption of Oil in Venezuela. Global rank and share of world's total. Data, Statistics and Charts.




www.worldometers.info





*Fact:*

On 28 January, the United States imposed sanctions on the Venezuelan state-owned oil and natural gas company PDVSA to pressure Maduro to resign during the 2019 Venezuelan presidential crisis. ...* Bolton estimated the expected loss to the Venezuelan economy at more than $11 billion in 2019*.









International sanctions during the Venezuelan crisis - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





*Fact:*

The US sponsored an invasion of Cuba, after Castro threw out the Americans after defeating the US puppet government of dictator Batista.

_The Cuban Revolution (Spanish: Revolución cubana) was an armed revolt conducted by Fidel Castro's revolutionary 26th of July Movement and its allies *against the military dictatorship of Cuban President Fulgencio Batista. *_






The Bay of Pigs Invasion — Central Intelligence Agency


The Bay of Pigs Invasion



www.cia.gov





*Fact:*

Trump tightened sanctions on Cuba for Americans. Interesting though, that over 1 million Canadians visit terrible "commie" Cuba every year.









Trump Administration Adds to American Travel Restrictions in Cuba (Published 2020)


Among other measures, Americans will no longer be able to import Cuban cigars or stay in hotels owned by the Cuban government.




www.nytimes.com


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

LTR, like Keith I have much better things to do than waste time with unsubstantiated rubbish, faux news, exaggeration, pretenders, narcissists, braggarts, extreme left and right propaganda, etc in a financial forum. The noise pattern from certain individuals shows itself in spades eventually and when the signal to noise ratio gets well below 50%, it is time to turn off the mic.

That is different than well supported differences in opinion from credible sources, which is how I continue to learn and challenge my own biases.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

A week ago the left was accusing Trump of ignoring the science and not taking Covid seriously.
Now that he has it, they are acting like there is no such thing as Covid and the whole thing is a scam.
I find this hilarious on so many levels.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

^ as defined by kcowan.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> Placing members on ignore is a terrible option. I don't feel it should exist at all. It removes you from the conversation.
> 
> If a member is so consistently posting objectionable material, then reporting them will result in a ban.
> 
> ...


Some people are so tiresome and post the same stuff over and over they need to go on ignore. They might not be breaking forum rules so can't be banned. But nothing says you have to undertake the emotional labour of reading and thinking about what they say. I had lonewolf on ignore for several months before he was banned because I could not bring myself to read and not get drawn into his baiting conspiracy-theory promulgation.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> I'm pretty sure they would want to avoid alarming the public and probably don't want him to look the same way a typical patient does.
> 
> However, it could all be a ruse. I'm not convinced he actually has COVID. It's very hard to know with this guy, and he also has a history of finding doctors to go along with him (even releasing outlandish statements about his health). Both Trump and the White House staff have a very poor track record on truth and transparency.
> 
> Trump is a master at manipulating the public. A professional con man.


I'm not sure he could get a team of doctors to go along with a ruse that he has COVID. He may be a pathological liar but most doctors have too much integrity to be drawn into representing that someone has a fraudulent illness.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Meanwhile back in Washington. Trump drives around in the hermetically sealed SUV with his secret service agents and waves at the crowd. Then he returns to the hospital. Fortunately, they do appear to be fully "protected" but Trump is only wearing a cloth mask and he is the carrier of the virus.

Imagine all the work involved in setting that up, and the fact that the Secret Service agents have to now quarantine themselves for 14 days.

Many doctors are publicly questioning if the medications are clouding Trump's judgement. It is a side effect they sometimes have.

I wonder if the hospital has brought in extra staff or are they running short with other patients to cover all of Trump's movements and treatment needs.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> I'm not sure he could get a team of doctors to go along with a ruse that he has COVID. He may be a pathological liar but most doctors have too much integrity to be drawn into representing that someone has a fraudulent illness.


You don't need most, you just need a few.
Quite honestly in politics there are people that will lie about anything if it makes an advantage.

Trump, Republics and the DNC and their allies have shown this again and again.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> Myself, I feel the need to read all posts. Perhaps it harkens back to the old phrase, "Know thine enemy".


1. They're not really my enemy.
2. I'd be thrilled to find anyone who can intelligently articulate their position and logic. Please send someone.

The best source I've found is Joe Rogan, where Andrew Yang explained how UBI could work in an intelligent manner.
Lesyln Lewis provided an interpretation of "systematic racism" that isn't immediately offensive, but she's hardly "left".

I know I too easily get drawn into "discussions", that don't end up well. Maybe I'm missing out, but the reality is that I don't think so.
I've ignored 2 people here, and 1 on facebook.
I blocked them because they add no value, even if they did have a point, they're unable/unwilling to support/explain it in a way that I can understand.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Interesting to compare Trump's cavalier attitude towards the COVID with that of Putin.

Putin has isolated himself and wears protective gear everywhere he goes. Putin is a former high level KGB intelligence officer.

If COVID was a hoax, Putin would know about it. Trump simply didn't listen to US intelligence reports and briefings.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

sags said:


> Meanwhile back in Washington. Trump drives around in the hermetically sealed SUV with his secret service agents and waves at the crowd.


I think that if I found out that I had Covid-19 my mental state would change in so many ways and from one second to the next. Especially the first week.
Trump should step aside and let Pence and The Clowns take control. This decision to go on cruise control can not have been made with a mature mind.


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

About this left and right .....

When I first started touring around Mouse Land, I was really surprised to find that there were zillions of people who shared identical ideology on many topics and expectations as I did. Before Mouse Land, I had thought that my views were a minority view.

All my life I was told that the country was Center-Right. The internet showed me that the country was Left-Center and always was.

Corporations spent tons of money and the media explained that the country was Center-Right.

All my life I understood the country of Israel was a Loving People. As a country it did not interest me at all. I had huge sympathy for what Hitler did to their People.
It was not until 2006 that I read an article detailing the creation of the State of Israel. I learned that Israel was a Crime Scene - A holocaust against the Palestinian People.
I was so utterly shocked to learn the History of the Jewish People. I found it so stunning or so opposite that I had been taught in school and in media. It was just unbelievable. So I spent 20 years reading everything I could find about Israel.

I was born in 1948 and realized that this Holocaust against the Palestinian People happened during my lifetime and on my Watch.

And worse ...... I had no idea.

I am very thankful to learn of all views because living in Mouse Land is a "Learning" experience.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

andrewf said:


> . I had lonewolf on ignore for several months before he was banned because I could not bring myself to read and not get drawn into his baiting conspiracy-theory promulgation.


 The sheeple listen to their dictators. To avoid answering questions & or debate they are promoting those that go against their agenda conspiracy nut jobs. I am not that nieve. It was not that long ago they had kids practicing in school hiding under desks to be protected against an atom bomb. Believe in your government wear your mask. Never before have they deliberately killed the economy & quarantine the healthy. This is not even a pandemic & they shut everything down


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

calm said:


> About this left and right .....
> 
> When I first started touring around Mouse Land, I was really surprised to find that there were zillions of people who shared identical ideology on many topics and expectations as I did. Before Mouse Land, I had thought that my views were a minority view.
> 
> ...


You need to be careful about reading books, especially old books. The Bible says the truth will set you free, but nowhere does it say it will make you popular. You are better off socially to watch the main stream media on TV and parrot whatever they say. Try not to remember that they said the opposite 6 months ago.


----------



## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> Interesting to compare Trump's cavalier attitude towards the COVID with that of Putin.
> 
> Putin has isolated himself and wears protective gear everywhere he goes. Putin is a former high level KGB intelligence officer.
> 
> If COVID was a hoax, Putin would know about it. Trump simply didn't listen to US intelligence reports and briefings.


I have a lot of respect for Putin for banning Gates & micro Soft from Russia. Trump I have a lot of respect for stopping payments to the WHO. Now the WHO gets most of their money from Gates the guy that wants to lock us all in our homes till were vaccinated. Who is going to make money on that & gets his wish to reduce the population ?


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The Bible also says not to wear mixed fabrics. Not exactly a reliable source of guidance.


----------



## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> 1. They're not really my enemy.
> 2. I'd be thrilled to find anyone who can intelligently articulate their position and logic. Please send someone.
> 
> The best source I've found is Joe Rogan, where Andrew Yang explained how UBI could work in an intelligent manner.
> ...


I even put a long term friend (since 1962) on ignore (in the real world) because he would spout theories and when I asked him to explain why he felt that way, he would point to sites that were composed of academics and activists, not a real world person in sight. Of course that described him too.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

kcowan said:


> I even put a long term friend (since 1962) on ignore (in the real world) because he would spout theories and when I asked him to explain why he felt that way, he would point to sites that were composed of academics and activists, not a real world person in sight. Of course that described him too.


Well there is that saying
_You have_ to be highly _educated to be that stupid_."

The thing is there are academics and activists who do have good ideas and good data.
It's the one who spout insane [email protected]#$ that annoy me.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

:) lonewolf said:


> It was not that long ago they had kids practicing in school hiding under desks to be protected against an atom bomb. Believe in your government wear your mask. Never before have they deliberately killed the economy & quarantine the healthy. This is not even a pandemic & they shut everything down


I sure remember being scared when those air-raid sirens would go off and we all had to get under our desks. I still think it was real though. 

We had to put our hands over our ears too. I don't know what these kids are doing - I guess they can't follow simple instructions - just like all the mask wearers today. It's such a simple task.











ltr


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> A week ago the left was accusing Trump of ignoring the science and not taking Covid seriously.
> Now that he has it, they are acting like there is no such thing as Covid and the whole thing is a scam.
> I find this hilarious on so many levels.


 ... hilarious for those who believes the Dump is their Messiah.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Trump's stunt motorcade trip around the block was highly irresponsible. At least two secret service agents were in the limousine with him wearing an N95 mask. But the vehicle is designed to be sealed against chemical attack and thus the risk to those agents was very high. Medical staff would be wearing full PPE (gowns, gloves, eye protection, etc.) in such a situation. All for a complete unnecessary trip.


----------



## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Watch the Dump followers will say all done in the "line of duty". If the Dump tells them to jump off the cliff, they wouldn't hesitate ... it's their Messiah.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Trump's stunt motorcade trip around the block was highly irresponsible. At least two secret service agents were in the limousine with him wearing an N95 mask. But the vehicle is designed to be sealed against chemical attack and thus the risk to those agents was very high. Medical staff would be wearing full PPE (gowns, gloves, eye protection, etc.) in such a situation. All for a complete unnecessary trip.


@andrewf, are you going to start on the unsupported allegation train too?

The secret Service agents were wearing "full PPE". It actually looks very similar to the staff at COVD19 testing centers in Ontario.
It looks like Trump was wearing a "normal" black cloth mask, definitely not any N95 mask I'm familiar with.
Source, the below video








Trump leaves hospital room to wave at supporters outside from motorcade


President Trump on Sunday greeted supporters outside Walter Reed National Military Medical Center from his motorcade, leaving his hospital suite to make a “surprise” visit des…




thehill.com





Unnecessary, likely, but with some in media and online (including this forum) suggesting he's in serious medical difficultly, obviously someone thought it was important to show that he's not doing too bad for an old guy with COVID.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Perhaps it was a way to show he was still vertical, but I think it was simply a selfish stunt by a narcissit who cannot stand to be away from being 'front and center' all the time. It always has been 'all about me' for him.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

The guy thinks he's still in The Apprentice show.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

"The President is feeling good".....no doubt given all the drugs he is taking, some of which is directly through IV. That doesn't mean he is fine though.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> @andrewf, are you going to start on the unsupported allegation train too?
> 
> The secret Service agents were wearing "full PPE". It actually looks very similar to the staff at COVD19 testing centers in Ontario.
> It looks like Trump was wearing a "normal" black cloth mask, definitely not any N95 mask I'm familiar with.
> ...


Unnecessary, certainly. He returned to the hospital immediately after. It doesn't take much to sit in a car and wave, I thought the video was more persuasive. 

Maybe the way I phrased it was unclear, I meant the agents were wearing N95s, but not full PPE.

From the article you linked:


> James Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed, tweeted that the drive-by photo op was "insanity."
> "Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential 'drive-by' just now has to be quarantined for 14 days," he tweeted. "They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. This is insanity."


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Many doctors examining the chain of events and drugs administered say that Trump is or was in serious condition.

Feeling euphoria is a side effect of these drugs.......notably the heavy steroid drug, which controls the inflammation well but doesn't cure the root cause.

On the "joy ride", a COVID patient in a hospital is put into a negative pressure room so the airborne virus droplets can't float around.

My wife worked as an RN in the "burn unit" with badly burned patients in negative pressure rooms to prevent infection in the wounds. She was in full PPE.

The rooms add another level of protection for the fully PPE wearing doctors and nurses attending them against airborne viruses and bacteria.

The PPE worn in the hospital setting is considered "safe" is conjunction with the patient being in a negative pressure room.

Doctors and nurses have become sick and some have died after treating COVID patients, likely contaminated outside of the room but wearing PPE.

COVID is a highly contagious virus and being confined in a hermetically sealed vehicle means the infected person is shedding virus with every breath.

It will be a miracle if the Secret Service agents don't get infected.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Personally I hope Trump gets better quickly and can complete his election campaign. Americans can decide his future, not the COVID virus.

But I also think Trump has cost millions of lives to be lost due to his arrogance and refusal to believe the experts. 

To say now that he "gets it" after 9 months and 205,000 deaths, unknown number of people sick, hospitalized, with lingering or permanent condition......is unbelievably stupid.

Not to mention the economic toll on people who lost their jobs and savings. Trump needs to survive to answer for what he has done.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Unnecessary, certainly. He returned to the hospital immediately after. It doesn't take much to sit in a car and wave, I thought the video was more persuasive.
> 
> Maybe the way I phrased it was unclear, I meant the agents were wearing N95s, but not full PPE.
> 
> From the article you linked:


Please support your claim that the agents were not wearing full PPE.
I posted a link to a video of the act in question, it appears they were wearing masks, face shields and gowns. Which is what most consider "full PPE". 
I pointed out that this is the same PPE as worn at the Ontario COVID19 testing sites.

This is part of the problem, you made unsupported statements, that I believe are false.
I pointed out the facts I felt were incorrect, and provided video evidence of what actually happened.
You then made the claim a second time, again without evidence.

It isn't that you phrased it unclear, it's that the actual statement you made, both times, was not true.
This is the problem with "fake news", everyone knows they're biased and distorting the truth, if not flat out lying.

That's why it is important for Trump to show he's doing ok, the way some were talking, he was near death.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Trump's stunt motorcade trip around the block was highly irresponsible.



Actually he had the blessing of his medical staff, but he failed to get the blessing of the media lol. It served its purpose though.

This just in...

He just sent the people who there to support him outside Walter Reed about a hundred pizzas…while he's a patient.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump's press secretary Kayleigh McEnany has tested positive. She has been interracting with the media without wearing a mask.

Two of McEnany's staff members have tested positive as well.

The Trump administration proves over and over how incapable they are of making the most basic good judgement decisions.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Eder said:


> Actually he had the blessing of his medical staff, but he failed to get the blessing of the media lol. It served its purpose though.
> 
> This just in...
> 
> He just sent the people who there to support him outside Walter Reed about a hundred pizzas…while he's a patient.


I think it's quite apparent, facts don't matter.
Even when there is literal video evidence of exactly what happened, they'll ignore that. 
That's the problem, if you can't get them to agree with the literal image in front of their eyes, how can you discuss anything of complexity?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Sorry, I didn't see the zoomed in shot, just the video which at a quick glimpse didn't see the gown. Regardless of the PPE, it was an unnecessary discretionary trip that put the agents at unjustified risk. Trump did a much better job showing that he is doing well with his video.



Eder said:


> Actually he had the blessing of his medical staff, but he failed to get the blessing of the media lol. It served its purpose though.


It sounds like his attending physician doesn't agree. He wasn't discharged--why did he leave the hospital?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Trump tweets that he will be discharged today at 6:30. Also tells people "Don't be afraid of Covid". A few hundred thousand Americans might disagree, if they weren't also dead. The hundreds of thousands more with severe cases at least are still alive to disagree.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

CNN's Jake Tapper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta are saying Trump's doctors are lying and trying to hide how bad his condition is. This whole story keeps getting funnier and funnier 

Mainstream media: You have to listen to the scientists and believe what the doctors say.

Doctors: Trump is doing fine.

Mainstream media: Except for those ones! It's a big conspiracy!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> CNN's Jake Tapper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta are saying Trump's doctors are lying and trying to hide how bad his condition is. This whole story keeps getting funnier and funnier
> 
> Mainstream media: You have to listen to the scientists and believe what the doctors say.
> 
> ...


The problem Rusty is that Trump's doctors have put out false information before, some of it dictated (or commanded) by Trump. That's why Trump's doctors have no credibility - wacky stuff, straight out of Soviet days.

Early in his presidency they put out some bizarre statements about Trump being one of the healthiest men alive, and that he could live to age 200 due to his amazing genetics.

Not to mention his doctors lied about his obesity and have also concealed his heart condition. Most doctors are reliable. *Trump's* doctors are not reliable, and have been dishonest in the past.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> CNN's Jake Tapper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta are saying Trump's doctors are lying and trying to hide how bad his condition is. This whole story keeps getting funnier and funnier
> 
> Mainstream media: You have to listen to the scientists and believe what the doctors say.
> 
> ...


I think it became completely obvious to everyone that they were lying when they stood in the middle of a riot, with burning buildings behind them talking about "mostly peaceful" process.
It's 1984, live on CNN.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> The problem Rusty is that Trump's doctors have put out false information before, some of it dictated (or commanded) by Trump. That's why Trump's doctors have no credibility - wacky stuff, straight out of Soviet days.
> 
> Early in his presidency they put out some bizarre statements about Trump being one of the healthiest men alive, and that he could live to age 200 due to his amazing genetics.
> 
> Not to mention his doctors lied about his obesity and have also concealed his heart condition. Most doctors are reliable. *His* doctors are not.


Really?
The white house doctor said he could live to 200, and is the healthiest man alive?
Care to back that up with any sort of reference? I mean if it's an official White house brief/interview there should be some record somewhere.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Really?
> The white house doctor said he could live to 200, and is the healthiest man alive?
> Care to back that up with any sort of reference? I mean if it's an official White house brief/interview there should be some record somewhere.


Go search for it yourself smart guy. There's only about 20 million references to it in the public records. His doc, Ronny Jackson, said that if his diet was better, he could have lived to 200 years.

Previous to Ronny Jackson, a previous doctor (Harold Bornstein) also made bizarre claims about Trump, saying "If elected, Mr Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency"

Ridiculous! His doctors are quacks.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

How healthy is Trump? Years of misinformation make it difficult to know


The president’s doctors have been prone to hyperbole, even as concern has grown over his weight and a secretive hospital visit




www.theguardian.com


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> CNN's Jake Tapper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta are saying Trump's doctors are lying and trying to hide how bad his condition is. This whole story keeps getting funnier and funnier
> 
> Mainstream media: You have to listen to the scientists and believe what the doctors say.
> 
> ...


Well, the doctor leading the press conferences has been caught dissembling... trying to avoid saying that Trump was ever on oxygen. Perhaps that was at the request of the patient. I don't get why--no one would begrudge Trump receiving oxygen or other treatment.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Go search for it yourself smart guy. There's only about 20 million references to it in the public records. His doc, Ronny Jackson, said that if his diet was better, he could have lived to 200 years.
> 
> Previous to Ronny Jackson, a previous doctor (Harold Bornstein) also made bizarre claims about Trump, saying "If elected, Mr Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency"
> 
> Ridiculous! His doctors are quacks.


Why search for something that isn't there? I'm not wasting time on your made up claims.
You're the one posting made up claims that he's going to live 200 years.

I think your pattern is obvious, you make an outlandish claim you can't support, then back up to less ridiculous claims, thats a very Trump style debating/negotiating tactic. Never took you for a fan.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

LOL...........good point James on calling out Mr.Matt. He should learn how to Google.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Biden has pulled further ahead of Trump in the latest polls.

_A Reuters/Ipsos poll released Sunday found Biden ahead of Trump by 10 percentage points (51%-41%) among likely voters, a 1-point jump from a poll Sept. 30. That increase falls within the survey's margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points. 

An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll conducted before Trump became ill found Biden had surged to a 14-point lead among registered voters, a 6-point jump from a NBC/WSJ survey Sept. 20. _

Biden can just stay home and let Trump self destruct with his bizarre tweets and behaviour. Trump is getting no sympathy votes from a lot of Americans.









Poll: Biden up 10 points after Trump contracts coronavirus, 59% say postpone Oct. 15 debate until he recovers


The Trump campaign announced plans to resume in-person campaigning, but more than two-thirds say in a poll that candidates should stop holding such events.



www.usatoday.com


----------



## calm (May 26, 2020)

"1995: BQ leader Lucien Bouchard returns to work after losing leg". He nearly died, and his seemingly miraculous return to politics did wonders for his political popularity, as if his survival was a divine stamp of approval. He still lost the separation referendum, but his survival helped to make it close.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump returns to the White House a conquering hero over the mighty COVID. A new national holiday is declared for October 5 every year........Trump Day.

Okay....... it isn't a Nobel Peace Prize or having his likeness mounted on Mount Rushmore...........but it is something.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Anyway its nice to see someone manning up in this age of tenth place ribbons. He may be an *** but a ***** he's not.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Need I remind you that Herman Cain was 'manning up' until a few days before he died. Trump should be getting the care he needs--not worrying about appearances. It will be cold comfort if he ends up dying.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Need I remind you that Herman Cain was 'manning up' until a few days before he died. Trump should be getting the care he needs--not worrying about appearances. It will be cold comfort if he ends up dying.


He could end up like the vast majority of COVID19 cases, and only ever have minor symptoms.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Well, he could but he is not limited to minor symptoms. He's had oxygen deficiencies at least twice along with the best care in the world. That said, he could very well be over the worst of it now and back to former self in 5-10 days.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> He could end up like the vast majority of COVID19 cases, and only ever have minor symptoms.


Vast majority don't get pumped with a drug cocktail like Trump has.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

andrewf said:


> Vast majority don't get pumped with a drug cocktail like Trump has.


Probably free medical care with 14 doctors. He will say "don't worry covid is just a cold".


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Just watched Biden on Global...wearing a mask below his nose dissing the president returning to work lol. Can't make this stuff up.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> Just watched Biden on Global...wearing a mask below his nose dissing the president returning to work lol. Can't make this stuff up.


I imagine he was speaking well away from others. COVID ripped through the ranks of Trump admin and GOP senate because people were being lax.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

Just watched Melania say F* Christmas. Can't make this stuff up.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

james4beach said:


> The problem Rusty is that Trump's doctors have put out false information before, some of it dictated (or commanded) by Trump. That's why Trump's doctors have no credibility - wacky stuff, straight out of Soviet days.
> 
> Early in his presidency they put out some bizarre statements about Trump being one of the healthiest men alive, and that he could live to age 200 due to his amazing genetics.
> 
> Not to mention his doctors lied about his obesity and have also concealed his heart condition. Most doctors are reliable. *Trump's* doctors are not reliable, and have been dishonest in the past.


They are not Trump's doctors. The are doctors of the Walter Reid hospital. Under the circumstances you can't blame them for down playing the news and trying to avoid a panic in the media. Considering the way the media reacted to Trump's mild illness can you blame them?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

calm said:


> "1995: BQ leader Lucien Bouchard returns to work after losing leg". He nearly died, and his seemingly miraculous return to politics did wonders for his political popularity, as if his survival was a divine stamp of approval. He still lost the separation referendum, but his survival helped to make it close.


I always wanted to ask him how his leg is doing since it voted separatist.


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

fstamand said:


> Just watched Melania say F* Christmas. Can't make this stuff up.


I heard that recording (not a video) too. She was complaining that no matter how hard she worked to put on a nice Christmas display and celebration, the media did nothing but rag on her and find fault with everything she did. It was F the media not Christmas. By the way, this was a private conversation with a so called "friend" that was never supposed to be made public. Why this "friend" chose to record it and release it, I leave to you.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

fstamand said:


> Just watched Melania say F* Christmas. Can't make this stuff up.


Pretty face, but foul mouth it seems. It might be interesting to listen in on her and Donald having a little domestic disagreement. Might learn a few new words. Lack of class in WH these days.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I heard that recording (not a video) too. She was complaining that no matter how hard she worked to put on a nice Christmas display and celebration, the media did nothing but rag on her and find fault with everything she did. It was F the media not Christmas. By the way, this was a private conversation with a so called "friend" that was never supposed to be made public. Why this "friend" chose to record it and release it, I leave to you.


Actually, she said she doesn't care about Christmas.

She said:


> I work my *** off on Christmas stuff, that you know--who gives a f*** about Christmas and decoration? But I need to it, right?


Nice try to spin that she loves decorating for Christmas but the evil liberal media won't cover it. She is clearly saying that she does not appreciate that she has to be seen caring about Christmas decorations, etc. I agree that it is BS that the FL is expected to play that role. She doesn't care about it really, and no one else does.

Nothing new about leaks from the Trump presidency. It has been a never ending cavalcade of people leaving the administration and writing tell-all books. I don't blame people for doing it to Donald--he has shown no personal loyalty to anyone and is quite ready to stab people in the back. Melania is not a saint but I don't think she deserves it as much. I find it a bit bizarre that she is so lacking in empathy for migrants, given that she is one.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

CNN says ..... Trump is a Covidiot. With Lie-Abilities.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

If Trump walks away from this infection (only 3 days into treatment) and, unscathed, the doctors who treated Trump will be a first man on the moon moment in history.

Across the universe, America will gain such huge admiration for the American Know How.
The scientists and doctors are heaven sent.
However; the world will still see Trump as a covidiot.

Nobody was going to finance the Republican Party when the leader is at death's door. Trump needs to look spry and confident.

And the most echoed words from Biden supporters will be "Fake News" ..... Trump was never infected. It was a campaign stunt and an October Surprise.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Millions have walked away unscathed. For most people the corona virus is no worse than a cold or flu. For a few, especially old people with serious health conditions, it can be deadly. But most of the deaths put down to covid were due to other causes. In one case a man killed in a motorcycle crash tested positive and his name went down on the covid list. Even counting questionable cases, the death rate in the US is about 1/10 of what was predicted.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump made a second video on the balcony after the first one showed him wheezing and struggling to breathe.

Many doctors say he does not look good and should still be in the hospital.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Millions have walked away unscathed. For most people the corona virus is no worse than a cold or flu. For a few, especially old people with serious health conditions, it can be deadly. But most of the deaths put down to covid were due to other causes. In one case a man killed in a motorcycle crash tested positive and his name went down on the covid list. Even counting questionable cases, the death rate in the US is about 1/10 of what was predicted.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Millions have walked away unscathed. For most people the corona virus is no worse than a cold or flu. For a few, especially old people with serious health conditions, it can be deadly. But most of the deaths put down to covid were due to other causes. In one case a man killed in a motorcycle crash tested positive and his name went down on the covid list. Even counting questionable cases, the death rate in the US is about 1/10 of what was predicted.


I dont know where you read that nonsense. I guess the whole world is posting wrong numbers and the rubbish you read and believe iss right?


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

For comparison's sake, we can look at the timeline for Herman Cain:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/13132037645354025056/24: Attends Trump rally, maskless
7/2: Tests positive for Covid-19
7/10: Says he’s improving
7/15: Says his doctors seem happy
7/27: Says he’s really getting better
7/30: Dies

The point being that someone who was undergoing the treatments for severe symptoms like Trump was undergoing does not just walk away after a few days. The thing about taking Dexmathasone is that you can feel fine in the short term, but it can mask the seriousness of the illness.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

agent99 said:


> I dont know where you read that nonsense. I guess the whole world is posting wrong numbers and the rubbish you read and believe iss right?


Agent 99 open your eyes you are being scammed
Now Priests are Starting to Come Out Against the COVID Scam | Armstrong Economics


----------



## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

agent99 said:


> I dont know where you read that nonsense. I guess the whole world is posting wrong numbers and the rubbish you read and believe iss right?


I read it in the mainstream media in March when they predicted millions would die. Actual death toll, 215,932. Large numbers were old people in nursing homes who succumbed after Covid cases were put into the nursing homes. Others had co morbidities. If you follow the figures the death rate has been dropping for months. The peak was at the end of July. Actual death rate of those testing positive, less than 3%. This is not nothing but it is not much worse than the seasonal flu that comes around regularly. Worth taking precautions but not worth dropping a neutron bomb on the economy.
Biden has promised to lock down the country for 3 months. This would mean a depression like you have never seen. Already the side effects of unemployment and business failures are a severe blow to the economy.
Medical and scientific experts agree such a lockdown would slow the spread of the virus but would not stop it. In the end, the disease has to run its course no matter what anyone does.Unemployment and poverty kill people and ruin their lives too. There are no easy answers. Ignoring reality won't help.

Canada's death rate has been less than half that of the US. We must be doing something right.

World wide Covid statistics, scroll down for country by country breakdown








Coronavirus Update (Live): 123,042,823 Cases and 2,715,771 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer


Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...




www.worldometers.info


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

So a disease with a mortality rate at least 10x seasonal flu is 'no big deal'? If this spread unchecked every season, the health care system would collapse under the hospitalizations. It often struggles with just the flu! Never mind something that causes more than 10x the severe cases! That idea is what won't penetrate thick skulls. 

And letting the disease run its course implies that there is some long term immunity to be conferred here. Typically immunity to coronaviruses lasts months to a couple years. This likely won't run its course and go away.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

andrewf said:


> And letting the disease run its course implies that there is some long term immunity to be conferred here. Typically immunity to coronaviruses lasts months to a couple years. This likely won't run its course and go away.


Funny because it might affect votes as cons generally don't want to wear masks (typical egoistic mentality from the right).


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> So a disease with a mortality rate at least 10x seasonal flu is 'no big deal'? If this spread unchecked every season, the health care system would collapse under the hospitalizations. It often struggles with just the flu! Never mind something that causes more than 10x the severe cases! That idea is what won't penetrate thick skulls.
> 
> And letting the disease run its course implies that there is some long term immunity to be conferred here. Typically immunity to coronaviruses lasts months to a couple years. This likely won't run its course and go away.


Uhh are you still under the impression that the typical person understands statistics? Or even cares about facts.
In this thread there were people posting obviously false information, even when called on it, they don't seem to care. You can call it thick skulls or whatever you want, but that's where "political" discourse is.

That's the problem, people are rejection logic and rational thought, and reverting to tribalism. Some politicians understand this, that's why their behaviour is so infuriating to everyone outside their club.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> So a disease with a mortality rate at least 10x seasonal flu is 'no big deal'? If this spread unchecked every season, the health care system would collapse under the hospitalizations. It often struggles with just the flu! Never mind something that causes more than 10x the severe cases! That idea is what won't penetrate thick skulls.
> 
> And letting the disease run its course implies that there is some long term immunity to be conferred here. Typically immunity to coronaviruses lasts months to a couple years. This likely won't run its course and go away.


The WHO now says up to 750 million people have been affected (1/10 of the world's population). There have been 1.03 million deaths, a fatality rate of 0.13%. That's equivalent to the flu, not 10 times higher.

Does that basic elementary school level math penetrate your thick skull or are the thick skulls people who don't agree with your fake math?


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Did you use WHO's estimate of mortality rate, or are you using two disparate numbers to coming to an incorrect conclusion as to the mortality rate. Sounds like highly motivated reasoning. The US has had over 200k COVID deaths. If mortality was only 0.13%, then 50% of the US must have been infected to result in those deaths. According to CDC (below), no state in the US is near that level (highest is New York, at around 20-25%, most states are <10%). If you want to use WHO estimates to conclude that IFR is only 0.13%, use their estimate of IFR and don't do your own back of the napkin math.





__





COVID Data Tracker


CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



covid.cdc.gov





Really remarkable then, too, that the infection fatality rate on the Diamond Princess was 2.3%. What are the chances, statistically, that you would get that outcome when the true IFR is only 0.13%? 

In other words, your math is wrong.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Nevermind that even getting another disease that is 'only' as deadly as the flu will also crater the health care system if spread unchecked. The system often struggles under the strain of just one illness. Double that burden and see what happens!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Did you use WHO's estimate of mortality rate, or are you using two disparate numbers to coming to an incorrect conclusion as to the mortality rate. Sounds like highly motivated reasoning. The US has had over 200k COVID deaths. If mortality was only 0.13%, then 50% of the US must have been infected to result in those deaths. According to CDC (below), no state in the US is near that level (highest is New York, at around 20-25%, most states are <10%). If you want to use WHO estimates to conclude that IFR is only 0.13%, use their estimate of IFR and don't do your own back of the napkin math.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The age and health distribution of the Diamond Princess isn't the same as the general population.

Old data, but table 1 shows why this matters.


https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/2020/06/covid19-epi-case-identification-age-only-template.pdf?la=en


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The personal economic cost of the virus is also tragic, and Trump has abandoned Americans who have no resources during this crisis.

CNN interviewed a woman who out of work, behind on all her bills and rent. They survive on a small "box" of food from the Salvation Army.

There are tens of millions of Americans like her, and instead passing a law to provide support, Trump spends his time looking like Kim Jong Un.

The only thing missing in that "joy ride" was Secret Security running beside the SUV. Trump did manage the "balcony" photo op though.


----------



## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Did you use WHO's estimate of mortality rate, or are you using two disparate numbers to coming to an incorrect conclusion as to the mortality rate. Sounds like highly motivated reasoning. The US has had over 200k COVID deaths. If mortality was only 0.13%, then 50% of the US must have been infected to result in those deaths. According to CDC (below), no state in the US is near that level (highest is New York, at around 20-25%, most states are <10%). If you want to use WHO estimates to conclude that IFR is only 0.13%, use their estimate of IFR and don't do your own back of the napkin math.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The fatality rate is from the WHO numbers, not me. And of course, you have to factor in the Covid deaths where people died from something else but it was counted as Covid because they were positive. As to "napkin math", a simple percentage can be calculated either on a napkin or using a calculator and the result is the same. If the true fatality rate is 0.13% then there are either 10's of thousands of fatalities in the US falsely attributed to Covid or millions more who are positive that haven't been tested.



> Really remarkable then, too, that the infection fatality rate on the Diamond Princess was 2.3%. What are the chances, statistically, that you would get that outcome when the true IFR is only 0.13%?
> 
> In other words, your math is wrong.


2.3% is not remarkable because the Diamond Princess had a very high percentage old people, the most at risk group. Had the ship been full of people 50 and under there probably would have been no fatalities.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

If everyone were college athletes, no one would have sarcopenia.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The highest levels of US military command are now infected or working from home.

Despite all the safety precautions they took, the virus still managed to infiltrate the leadership ranks.

All it takes is one person to disregard the protocols for the virus to take hold and spread.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Trump is going to infect everyone in the top tiers of government, if he hasn't already.

What a disaster. And no, unfortunately, not everyone in the US (not even rich people) have access to the same level of healthcare and drugs that Trump has access to.

Already the effect of this recklessness and stupidity is seen in Republican states, with higher levels of infection / rapid spread. Trump and the Republicans are quite literally killing citizens, _especially_ their supporters. It's a failure to govern and a *failure to keep the public safe*.

That would be like having an insane amount of terrorist attacks, about 70 attacks of a 9/11 scale, and the government sitting by and shrugging, saying it's no big deal. The government has failed Americans, disastrously.

If America ever comes to their senses after all of this, this could be the end of the Republican party.

Can you imagine having _seventy_ x 9/11 terrorist attacks, and the government doing virtually nothing about it? Insane! They have no mandate to govern -- he should be impeached and removed from office. The Trump government has failed in the basic duty to govern.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> All it takes is one person to disregard the protocols for the virus to take hold and spread.


 All it takes is order followers to follow orders to cause a pandemic in poverty which kills more people then a virus no worse then the flu


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The web site I linked to gives US total deaths from Covid at 215,506 out of 7,706,285 total cases. If you do the math this works out to a death rate of 2.79%.
The Center for Disease Control estimates 24,000 to 62,000 deaths from flu between October 1 2019 and April 4 2020 a period of 6 months vs 9 months of Covid. This is out of 39 million to 56 million flu illnesses. This works out to a death rate of .06% to .11%.
On the positive side we know a lot more about treating Covid than we did just a few months ago, and the death rate has been falling world wide since July.








Coronavirus Update (Live): 123,042,823 Cases and 2,715,771 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer


Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...




www.worldometers.info












Preliminary In-Season 2019-2020 Flu Burden Estimates


CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.




www.cdc.gov


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The web site I linked to gives US total deaths from Covid at 215,506 out of 7,706,285 total cases. If you do the math this works out to a death rate of 2.79%.
> The Center for Disease Control estimates 24,000 to 62,000 deaths from flu between October 1 2019 and April 4 2020 a period of 6 months vs 9 months of Covid. This is out of 39 million to 56 million flu illnesses. This works out to a death rate of .06% to .11%.
> On the positive side we know a lot more about treating Covid than we did just a few months ago, and the death rate has been falling world wide since July.
> 
> ...


I never looked on CDC site to confirm this though recently a number of sources have come out & said the following.( The numbers are probably a bit higher now).


"After charges were laid for seeding nursing homes with COVID. Hidden on CDC site now has posted a number that is less then 10,000 that died of COVID alone in the US." COVID does not even make the top 10 causes of death.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The web site I linked to gives US total deaths from Covid at 215,506 out of 7,706,285 total cases. If you do the math this works out to a death rate of 2.79%.
> The Center for Disease Control estimates 24,000 to 62,000 deaths from flu between October 1 2019 and April 4 2020 a period of 6 months vs 9 months of Covid. This is out of 39 million to 56 million flu illnesses. This works out to a death rate of .06% to .11%.
> On the positive side we know a lot more about treating Covid than we did just a few months ago, and the death rate has been falling world wide since July.
> 
> ...











Healthcare Workers


COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.




www.cdc.gov




Table 1, Scenario 5.
it seems the CDC thinks the IFR is 0.5% for those under 70, and 0.02% for those under 50 ( less if you include kids.

So yes, it appears that the CDC data and projections are much lower than earlier estimates, quite possibly within the range of the seasonal flu.


So it's now to the point that they're censoring or warning about data from the CDC, if Trump says it?
Trump Derangement Syndrome has gone too far.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The web site I linked to gives US total deaths from Covid at 215,506 out of 7,706,285 total cases. If you do the math this works out to a death rate of 2.79%.
> The Center for Disease Control estimates 24,000 to 62,000 deaths from flu between October 1 2019 and April 4 2020 a period of 6 months vs 9 months of Covid. This is out of 39 million to 56 million flu illnesses. This works out to a death rate of .06% to .11%.


However, because Covid is new no one knows how many positive Covid people without symptoms have never been tested. The flu is an known annual event that's been going on for hundreds of years so the scientists and doctors have a good idea how many people contract it each year.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Trump announces he is ending stimulus talks when stock markets are open. The markets tank and business people question his mental stability.

The drugs are having an impact on his brain function. Remember.........Trump didn't have any excess brain cells to start with.

He was functionally illiterate and has declined to "monkey level" status. Soon.......he will be eating bananas and throwing poop at his aides.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> The drugs are having an impact on his brain function. Remember.........Trump didn't have any excess brain cells to start with.
> 
> He was functionally illiterate and has declined to "monkey level" status. Soon.......he will be eating bananas and throwing poop at his aides.


Verification please.....

ltr


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Trump takes off his mask when he's back at the White house and not near anyone. Mensa candidate Joe Biden wears a mask when he's alone in his basement.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> Trump announces he is ending stimulus talks when stock markets are open. The markets tank and business people question his mental stability.


Shoot - Is that what did it??? I had put in a bid at what I thought was well below asking price to buy some more POW. Well it filled and then dropped - I had no idea why until I saw your post and then went and checked. I paid $27  Maybe it will bounce back tomorrow.
Maybe he did that on purpose! Lot's of money to be made if you can control the markets!

PS: I posted a chart of POW yesterday, but now I don't see it. No big deal anyway.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

like_to_retire said:


> Verification please.....
> 
> ltr


His actions speak louder than words.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> However, because Covid is new no one knows how many positive Covid people without symptoms have never been tested. The flu is an known annual event that's been going on for hundreds of years so the scientists and doctors have a good idea how many people contract it each year.


That's why I used the CDC projections, which I linked to.
It also shows the IFR/CFR by age because for COVID19, the age is a HUGE factor, by several orders of magnitude.

For those asking for "verification", please indicate which users data you are questioning. I really do try to ensure my data is reputably sourced.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

sags said:


> Trump announces he is ending stimulus talks when stock markets are open. The markets tank and business people question his mental stability.
> 
> The drugs are having an impact on his brain function. Remember.........Trump didn't have any excess brain cells to start with.
> 
> He was functionally illiterate and has declined to "monkey level" status. Soon.......he will be eating bananas and throwing poop at his aides.


The SPY closed at 334.93 after opening at 339.91 for a drop of 5 points or 1.49%. This takes it all the way down to where it was on October second, 2 trading days ago. Big deal.
Trump offered 1.6 trillion dollars in additional stimulus money but Pelosi stonewalled and demanded an unacceptable 2.4 trillion in an effort to discredit the President at the expense of the public. Trump just called her bluff, ending negotiations temporarily. He says he will have a new, better stimulus bill ready after the new supreme court justice is approved and after the election. That means the ball is now in the Democrats' court. Let's see if they will continue holding America for ransom for political gain.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The SPY closed at 334.93 after opening at 339.91 for a drop of 5 points or 1.49%. they will continue holding America for ransom for political gain.


It may be a big deal for some. Trump opens his mouth and poof, the annual dividend return of SPY is blown away.


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Really remarkable then, too, that the infection fatality rate on the Diamond Princess was 2.3%. What are the chances, statistically, that you would get that outcome when the true IFR is only 0.13%?
> 
> In other words, your math is wrong.


The cruise ships average age was quite high skewing the results..not hart to see.

Oops I see I'm not the only one here that can see the obvious lol.

At any rate for those with TDS the president is doing what all other Covid victims with slight symptoms are supposed to be doing...isolate at home. Its too bad the focus of the media is on Trump & not the issues as usual.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

agent99 said:


> It may be a big deal for some. Trump opens his mouth and poof, the annual dividend return of SPY is blown away.


He opened his mouth to say they won't dump billions/trillions in stock market stimulus right in the middle of the election.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

agent99 said:


> It may be a big deal for some. Trump opens his mouth and poof, the annual dividend return of SPY is blown away.


 The market can not get a sling shot move to the upside without a decline


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

MrMatt said:


> He opened his mouth to say they won't dump billions/trillions in stock market stimulus right in the middle of the election.


It's the economy that would get the stimulus, not the stock market. 

And that happens when they distribute the $1200 per person, bail out almost bankrupt state governments, fund unemployment, fund covid testing, fund schools (because of additional covid costs). Some people are in dire straits now the first stimulus ran out. 

The stock market wouldn't necessarily gain from the stimulus package (gain likely already built in) but it sure as hell will tank if the economy tanks, as it will according the head of their Fed (Powel)


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The web site I linked to gives US total deaths from Covid at 215,506 out of 7,706,285 total cases. If you do the math this works out to a death rate of 2.79%.
> The Center for Disease Control estimates 24,000 to 62,000 deaths from flu between October 1 2019 and April 4 2020 a period of 6 months vs 9 months of Covid. This is out of 39 million to 56 million flu illnesses. This works out to a death rate of .06% to .11%.
> On the positive side we know a lot more about treating Covid than we did just a few months ago, and the death rate has been falling world wide since July.
> 
> ...


Yes, the mortality rate of COVID has been and will continue to fall as we gain experience and standard of care improves. But as you say, it is much, much deadlier than seasonal flu. It is just wrong to call it 'just a flu'. And yes, we need to continue to function as a society to some degree despite the fact that we are dealing with a much deadlier illness. But that doesn't mean we should be cavalier about the risks or just 'let it play out'. That would be a catastrophe and the bodies would be piled high (not to mention the mortality rate would increase as medical care becomes stretched with too many hospitalizations).


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The SPY closed at 334.93 after opening at 339.91 for a drop of 5 points or 1.49%. This takes it all the way down to where it was on October second, 2 trading days ago. Big deal.
> Trump offered 1.6 trillion dollars in additional stimulus money but Pelosi stonewalled and demanded an unacceptable 2.4 trillion in an effort to discredit the President at the expense of the public. Trump just called her bluff, ending negotiations temporarily. He says he will have a new, better stimulus bill ready after the new supreme court justice is approved and after the election. That means the ball is now in the Democrats' court. Let's see if they will continue holding America for ransom for political gain.


Trump is going to lose. I guess he may broker a deal in the lame duck.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

MrMatt said:


> Healthcare Workers
> 
> 
> COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.
> ...


In the international laws suits being prepared for the corona scandal around around 19 minutes 30seconds on the video it mentions around the world money was paid to put Covid on the death certificateInternational Lawsuits Being Prepared Against The Corona Scam | Armstrong Economics


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> However, because Covid is new no one knows how many positive Covid people without symptoms have never been tested. The flu is an known annual event that's been going on for hundreds of years so the scientists and doctors have a good idea how many people contract it each year.


CDC has serology testing. There is no way that the US infection fatality ratio is 0.13%. For that, half the population would have to have been infected and resolved. Almost all states are estimated in the single digits based on blood sample testing.


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## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

Eder said:


> Heres one I think James will like
> ...


This post linking to a conspiracy theory web site has been removed

Please stick to reputable media sources if linking to external sites


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

In my link above #219 autopsies have been done & no Corona have been fond. RKI in Germany the equivalent of the CDC recommended no autopsies be preformed. The video as well as one of the Corbett videos i posted said they changed the rules few years back regarding what is a pandemic. The motive? many are saying was to make money on vaccines. The vaccines have harmed people


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> CDC has serology testing. There is no way that the US infection fatality ratio is 0.13%. For that, half the population would have to have been infected and resolved. Almost all states are estimated in the single digits based on blood sample testing.


You say that, based on what?




https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf










Healthcare Workers


COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.




www.cdc.gov





Age groups are different, but from the Census and the CDC

Best Estimate IFRCensus0-19 years: 0.000030.00003Under 1825.70%0.00%20-49 years: 0.00020.000218-4439.90%0.01%50-69 years: 0.0050.00545-6522.00%0.11%70+ years: 0.0540.05465+12.40%0.67%Average IFR0.0148075IFR0.20%

Since the Census groups are slightly lower than the CDC groups this estimate for for IFR is high.
All my calculations put more people into the older age groups.

0.13% seems a bit low, but I'd assume someone at the CDC does a much better job than I did, or has more accurate information. But this still put's it at maybe double the fatality rate of the flu.

I'd love to see a hole in my logic, but it seems the CDC is saying an IFR <0.20%. 
It would seem they think there are massive numbers of undetected cases.

The easy way to say I'm wrong is to claim the CDC is wrong, but if they're wrong, which expert do you think is right?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

That is just a model, Matt, with IFR assumptons applied. My comment stands. 200k deaths / 0.13% IFR = 154M infections. That is nearly half the US population. CDC serology data I linked to earlier does not support infection rates anywhere approaching that level. Therefore, IFR of 0.13% is too low an estimate to explain the deaths the US has seen. It is likely a lot closer to 1%.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> That is just a model, Matt, with IFR assumptons applied. My comment stands. 200k deaths / 0.13% IFR = 154M infections. That is nearly half the US population. CDC serology data I linked to earlier does not support infection rates anywhere approaching that level. Therefore, IFR of 0.13% is too low an estimate to explain the deaths the US has seen. It is likely a lot closer to 1%.


You're arguing against the CDC estimates with your own back of the envelope calculation?
I think for COVID any analysis that doesn't consider age is going to be WAY off.
Just look at the data, the IFR for the highest risk group is almost 2000x, (200,000%) higher than the lowest risk group.

I'm not saying the CDC is right, I'm saying that it is concerning when a fact becomes "controversial' just because Trump says it.

In fact, you're actively denying the CDC estimates of IFR. 
Now I think you're wrong, but I'm glad you're putting out a contrary view, so we can discuss and determine what is real or at least plausible, and what doesn't make sense.


The scary thing is that there are those who want to censor "disinformation", and they're already trying to do this.
But what's the "disinformation", the CDC IFR estimate? Your conclusion that their estimate isn't very plausible?
I'd rather have the discussion than have someone shut it down.
I think you're wrong, but I'd rather it be out in the open so someone else can understand WHY and make their own decision. 

FYI, earlier I was looking at the data and seeing the 3-7% fatality rate,and freaking out until the more nuanced data came out, now I'm less concerned.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

andrewf said:


> That is just a model, Matt, with IFR assumptons applied. My comment stands. 200k deaths / 0.13% IFR = 154M infections. That is nearly half the US population. CDC serology data I linked to earlier does not support infection rates anywhere approaching that level. Therefore, IFR of 0.13% is too low an estimate to explain the deaths the US has seen. It is likely a lot closer to 1%.


I think your argument is quite sound. 200,000 divided by 0.0013 does equal a total infections number for the United States to be close to 154 million.

So unless we want to argue the math that gets us to that final number, we must then argue about the other inputted numbers. I don't think there is any dispute pertaining to the population of the United States so the only remaining number to be in error MUST BE the fatality rate, which they say is only 0.13%.

I am not sure why this is even being debated anymore. The fatality rate must be much higher. The only thing we don't know for sure is how much higher...or we are very very close to herd immunity and if that was the case we would not be getting such a rise in infections. If we ever get to herd immunity the infection rates will decrease before they go to zero. So we also know that is not the case either.

So the CDC's number is wrong. That is all we really know for sure. Thanks Andrewf.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> You're arguing against the CDC estimates with your own back of the envelope calculation?
> I think for COVID any analysis that doesn't consider age is going to be WAY off.
> Just look at the data, the IFR for the highest risk group is almost 2000x, (200,000%) higher than the lowest risk group.
> 
> ...


I saw that myself earlier. I don't see anywhere where the CDC claim that is their estimate of IFR. How do you explain 200k deaths? Are you suggesting that most states have fairly low infection rates (single digit %) but the vast majority of those infected are 65+, driving up the deaths? I don't see how an IFR of 0.2% and population infection rate of <10% explains the 200k dead. Something doesn't add up.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> I think your argument is quite sound. 200,000 divided by 0.0013 does equal a total infections number for the United States to be close to 154 million.
> 
> So unless we want to argue the math that gets us to that final number, we must then argue about the other inputted numbers. I don't think there is any dispute pertaining to the population of the United States so the only remaining number to be in error MUST BE the fatality rate, which they say is only 0.13%.
> 
> ...


Which CDC number? You realize that depending how you analyse them the numbers contradict each other. which is exactly why we shouldn't be censoring this type of discussion.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> I saw that myself earlier. *I don't see anywhere where the CDC claim that is their estimate of IFR.* How do you explain 200k deaths? Are you suggesting that most states have fairly low infection rates (single digit %) but the vast majority of those infected are 65+, driving up the deaths? I don't see how an IFR of 0.2% and population infection rate of <10% explains the 200k dead. Something doesn't add up.


It literally says
"Scenario 5: Current Best Estimate"


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> So the CDC's number is wrong. That is all we really know for sure. Thanks Andrewf.


I think there is some confusion about the WHO estimate being 10% of the population. They made some assumptions that it is being underreported and I haven't seen the exact methodology. However, the WHO's dashboard actually states 35.5M confirmed cases and 1M deaths. WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard

Which comes out to 2.8% fatality rate.

Keep in mind, even with the assumption that cases are being underreported, the same assumption would be that deaths are underreported. As well these assumptions are based on countries that may not have as rigorous a reporting regime as in the US. So applying what was being said by WHO to the US would be faulty logic.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> I think there is some confusion about the WHO estimate being 10% of the population. They made some assumptions that it is being underreported and I haven't seen the exact methodology. However, the WHO's dashboard actually states 35.5M confirmed cases and 1M deaths. WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard
> 
> Which comes out to 2.8% fatality rate.
> 
> Keep in mind, even with the assumption that cases are being underreported, the same assumption would be that deaths are underreported. As well these assumptions are based on countries that may not have as rigorous a reporting regime as in the US. So applying what was being said by WHO to the US would be faulty logic.


I think the focus on the older population, and in some places, ie Sweden, they aren't as concerned with young people.
Really, looking at CDC reported IFR, there is really limited risk to those under 50.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Meanwhile back at the WH.........the chaos continues.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

bgc_fan said:


> I think there is some confusion about the WHO estimate being 10% of the population. They made some assumptions that it is being underreported and I haven't seen the exact methodology. However, the WHO's dashboard actually states 35.5M confirmed cases and 1M deaths. WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard
> 
> Which comes out to 2.8% fatality rate.


I have no idea how the WHO came up with the 10% number but I assumed that it might have come from some antibody testing that we don't seem to be updated on by any agencies, including our own government agencies. That in itself makes me wonder why.

Anyway, the 10% number kind of coincides with my own view of viral transmissions that I have held from the beginning. Mostly all based on the initial dose of infections that people get. The amount of initial dose would vary from infection to infection but it would be far easier to get a low or almost insignificant dose of Covid-19, then it would be to get a high and very dangerous dose, if only because the higher dose usually requires more time exposed. and there are so many shorter times inside every longer time. These changes of initial infection doses would not be small percentage differences or even doubles or triples, but more magnitudes of 10 times and 100 times in their differences.

So if we assume that we know about 35 million infections, most of which would come from very sick people, then a simple magnitude of 20 times, gets us to 700 million or 10% of the population having much lower dose infections. That just sounds about right, if you ask me. Certainly, in the hot spots like the US, 10% of the population infected, would be a minimum, in my guestimate.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

OptsyEagle said:


> Certainly, in the hot spots like the US, 10% of the population infected, would be a minimum, in my guestimate.


What you have to consider is the testing rates. The higher the testing rate, the likelihood of accounting for those who are infected, which means less of the guesswork of accounting those who may be infected, but don't appear in the official numbers.

For example, from this data, you can see the comparative test rate by country: Total COVID-19 tests per 1,000 people

Denmark is the highest with around 700 tests/1000 people, and US is second at 360 tests/1000 (based on last data point). So that means a good percentage of infected would be accounted for in the official counts. However, Indonesia is at the bottom with 8 tests/1000, meaning that there is probably a lot of unaccounted infected.

All this to say, that you can't use 20x factor for every country to estimate the "real" infection rate. In countries where most of the population is tested the unknown numbers of infected is less than in countries where there is negligible testing rate. So, as an example, maybe the "real" infection rate in the US is 2 or 3 times the reported rate, whereas in Indonesia, it's more like 100, (just numbers to illustrate what I was getting at).


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> I think your argument is quite sound. 200,000 divided by 0.0013 does equal a total infections number for the United States to be close to 154 million.
> 
> So unless we want to argue the math that gets us to that final number, we must then argue about the other inputted numbers. I don't think there is any dispute pertaining to the population of the United States so* the only remaining number to be in error MUST BE the fatality rate,* which they say is only 0.13%.
> 
> ...


Actually number of deaths due to COVID19 could also be wrong.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

From the web site I linked to earlier, Covid deaths in the US, 216,160 out of 7,738,707 cases as of today. That works out to a death rate of 2.8%. This includes people who may have died of something else or who had other health problems. It seems many people who get Covid get it in a mild form, like Trump.
We were also told from the beginning that masks, hand sanitizers etc will not stop the disease. The idea was to slow down the spread of infection so hospitals would not be overwhelmed. This turned out to be true. People have been diligent in avoiding infection, the rate of infection and hospitalization has been much less than initially feared, but the disease continues to spread.
What usually happens in these cases is that the infectious agent keeps getting weaker and weaker until it is no longer a problem. This may take 1 to 2 years, sometimes longer but these things always blow over in the end.
We are doing about as well as can be expected until a vaccine is developed. In the meantime it makes sense to take precautions but not panic or over react. A panicky reaction could do more harm than good.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

out of 10 sheeple


Rusty O'Toole said:


> ke Trump.
> We were also told from the beginning that masks, hand sanitizers etc will not stop the disease.


 Read the box I was debating to buy a T shirt that said "read the box" with a picture of a mask box with the words Something along the line "the mask will not stop the virus" blown up. I ended up getting a picture of a sheep wearing a mask


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> What you have to consider is the testing rates. The higher the testing rate, the likelihood of accounting for those who are infected, which means less of the guesswork of accounting those who may be infected, but don't appear in the official numbers.


To determine fatalities only testing for antibodies would give an accurate picture. We test for active Covid but rarely for antibodies.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> Meanwhile back at the WH.........the chaos continues.


What happened now? How much of the administration has he infected?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Only some names were released to the public. There are additional unnamed WH staffers infected.

Trump is prancing around the WH making videos and creating chaos all over. People have to follow him around in decon suits spraying everything down.

Trump says he feels "great". Of course he does. He is all jacked up on steroids and has access to his own private stash of Adderall now.

If he wasn't the President he would be handcuffed to a hospital bed.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

This is Trump's official video from today.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313959702104023047
Look at the amount of makeup and the right side of his face.......around his right eye, eyebrow and a lump on his right cheek bone.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313964020353781761
The right side of his face is drooping and something white flies out of his nose at 3:12 into the video.

(That has happened before in other videos and people think it is chunks of dried Adderall in his nasal passages)

Some wonder if he had a stroke and fell. He might feel great but he doesn't look good.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> The right side of his face is drooping and something white flies out of his nose at 3:12 into the video.
> 
> (That has happened before in other videos and people think it is chunks of dried Adderall in his nasal passages)


Snot fair to point things like that out sags.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

"His" docs say he's fine, so he's fine. What's the big deal, it's just a flu for him.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Beaver101 said:


> "His" docs say he's fine, so he's fine. What's the big deal, it's just a flu for him.


Trump with Covid is in far better shape than Biden.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

agent99 said:


> Snot fair to point things like that out sags.


who can complete this old kids' rhyme?:
"Ev'rybody's doin' it............."


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> Ev'rybody's doin' it


 I grew up in a different part of the world, so never heard that one. It mentions "candy" and we never had that. 

Google found it, but that is cheating.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

agent99 said:


> Snot fair to point things like that out sags.


I see.......the Commander in Chief initiated the launch of a boogie missile


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Eder said:


> To determine fatalities only testing for antibodies would give an accurate picture. We test for active Covid but rarely for antibodies.


That's what the CDC serology data helps us see. It is only practical to test a sample of the population.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

sags said:


> This is Trump's official video from today.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313959702104023047
> ...


This reminds me of the Hillary conspiracy theories in 2016 with a mysterious man in black injecting Hillary with mysterious substances. He usually is wearing makeup; not unusual when appearing on camera--but a bit heavy on the bronzer.

I am doubtful Trump snorts Adderall.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

sags said:


> \.
> People have to follow him around in decon suits spraying everything down


 The dangerous viruses can not be killed with soap & water or antibiotics. COVID is a weak virus which can be killed by washing your hands. There is no 50% kill rate with COVID


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Latest word is Trump has completely recovered, is virus free, so is now immune to the virus and can't spread it to anyone else.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Repeating my post (#243) from 3 days ago:



> _*"His" docs* say he's fine, so he's fine. What's the big deal, it's just a flu for him._


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Trump has said he feels like he's not contagious. I would prefer to see consecutive negative tests before being in his presence.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Trump has said he feels like he's not contagious. I would prefer to see consecutive negative tests before being in his presence.


Trump is tested daily and the White House doctors have said that he's not contagious. Are you denying the science?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump is tested daily and the White House doctors have said that he's not contagious. Are you denying the science?


It's not about science. That's just a smear when they disagree with you.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Prairie Guy said:


> Trump is tested daily and the White House doctors have said that he's not contagious. Are you denying the science?


Please provide a source for the claim that Trump has been testing negative. All the reports I have seen is that they are dodging the question.


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Please provide a source for the claim that Trump has been testing negative. All the reports I have seen is that they are dodging the question.


I didn't say he tested negative, I said that the doctors have said that he's not contagious. There's a difference.

What are your medical qualifications?


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

There's no point testing recovered virus patients as typically they are RNA shedding for a few weeks up to 40 days after they have recovered, no testing required and the patient would be considered virus free after 10 days. But I'm sure most people know that...the media obviously is hoping most don't though lol.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Prairie Guy said:


> I didn't say he tested negative, I said that the doctors have said that he's not contagious. There's a difference.
> 
> What are your medical qualifications?


There are certain people who will ask you to prove things that you don't claim, while refusing to prove the things they claim.
That's why so many of my posts say "I am NOT saying this".

I'm not sure if they honestly lack the reading comprehension to understand, or if they're intentionally misrepresenting peoples claims.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Is that Trump's captive doctor, who mislead America about his medical care?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

andrewf said:


> Is that Trump's captive doctor, who mislead America about his medical care?


You dodged the question by making a ridiculous claim.

Everyone of your arguments falls apart when you are asked to provide proof. Maybe you will believe anything you are told but some of us are not that gullible.


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## calm (May 26, 2020)

Trump and Superman reminded me of a story I read years ago.

Superman Renounces U.S. Citizenship in 'Action Comics' #900
By Laura Hudson
April 27, 2011








Superman Renounces U.S. Citizenship in 'Action Comics' #900







comicsalliance.com





I saved the graphics to my drive at the time.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Funny Calm......Trump actually wanted to leave the hospital with a Superman t-shirt under his dress shirt and then rip it open to show the Superman logo.

Unfortunately, Trump's aides talked him out of it. I wish they hadn't. It would have been a display of his epic stupidity.









Trump reportedly wanted to rip open his button-down to reveal a Superman T-shirt to surprise people when he left the hospital


Upon leaving the hospital, Trump would rip open a button-down dress shirt to reveal a t-shirt with the Superman logo.




www.businessinsider.com


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