# Suze Orman's Money Class on PBS



## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I saw her excellent presentation to the crowd last night and as usual was really impressed by this sharp shooter. Bang on. Live below your means but within your needs. Find the new American Dream. She is urging everyone to have 8 months' emergency fund. I like her presentations. I think more people need to listen to her excellent money advice.

http://www.pbs.org/about/news/archive/2011/suze-orman-money-class/

This was on last night. Did anyone catch it? Comments?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Comments?


For a counter-opinon, check out this article:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.co...CreateaPlan/stop-listening-to-suze-orman.aspx

I guess I prefer to get my financial advice from someone like Andy Tobias, a millionaire investor who walks his talk, driving an old beat-up car and shopping at Costco.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Everyone has their detractors. I think she offers excellent advice. Do I take ALL of it? No. But no one is expected to. I think we should hear her out. If people and gov'ts took her advice then we would be in this financial mess. It's never hard to find someone with an axe to grind when you are famous.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

I am not a big Suze Orman fan. I lost some respect for her when I learned that she is on FICOs payroll. She mentions FICO constantly and I think that she had an obligation to divulge her affiliation with them - which she did not, she was outed by a financial journalist in the US.


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## Larry6417 (Jan 27, 2010)

Different people have different tastes, but I find Orman creepy and cultish. Of the American money gurus, my favourite is Clark Howard. In addition to the FICO fiasco, Orman has also been a shill for GM. See http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-3519117/Credible-pitchwoman-or-sellout-planner.html


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Is there an equivalent media character to Orman in Canada? I haven't noticed anyone quite so pervasive, beyond what's been posted on websites.


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## Dana (Nov 17, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Is there an equivalent media character to Orman in Canada? I haven't noticed anyone quite so pervasive, beyond what's been posted on websites.


Gail Vaz Oxlade? Alison Griffiths? Neither are as prominently featured as Orman, but they are the two I can think of off the top of my head.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I watch Suze every week and already bought her money class book the first day it came out.I think it is common sense that she is earning money off all her products she is selling from her website.I don't think she hides that and the past year she has tied alot of excess weight to debt so I expect one day soon for her to hook up with Jenny Craig or some weight loss product.
That does not discredit her in my opinion nor does the fact she was a waitress many many years ago .
The part I enjoy of her show is the 'can I afford it " and how am i doing section ,it is amazing what people do with their money.I love Suze and I think it would be great to see Gail Vaz Oxlade do a show based on this format which applies to Canada.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Dana said:


> I am not a big Suze Orman fan. I lost some respect for her when I learned that she is on FICOs payroll. She mentions FICO constantly and I think that she had an obligation to divulge her affiliation with them - which she did not, she was outed by a financial journalist in the US.


Dana
Fico runs an affiliate program so anyone with a website can promote them and get a % .I believe it is 15% of sales.I am an affiliate ,the Suze Orman kit also includes some Suze advise and if you sell that kit the commission is a bit more. http://www.allaffiliateprograms.com/myfico/.I think any show discussing personal finance would have to mention Fico as it is an important thing .


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Larry6417 said:


> Different people have different tastes, but I find Orman creepy and cultish. Of the American money gurus, my favourite is Clark Howard. In addition to the FICO fiasco, Orman has also been a shill for GM.


Clark Howard is my absolute hero.
He is a true gentleman and a consumer activist trouper.
I had the good fortune of meeting him twice in the US - once when he was doing a live show and another time when he casually shopping with his family.
I think one would be hard pressed to find someone that is such an impartial consumer activist as him.

Regarding Suze Orman, I have watched that show on PBS.
While I believe that _any_ type of financial education is good for most ordinary Americans in times like these, I find her (and the show) quite tacky and self-serving.
Right in the middle of the show, there was at least a 20 min. self promoting section comprising of a hard sell of her books, CDs, DVDs, etc.
I read a couple of her books in the past and they were _ok_, again, quite patronizing and self-serving.

I'd pick Gail any day for her common sense down to earth financial advice.
But Clark Howard, I take my hat off to.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

The money class is set up like a QVC type sell ,I bought the book before I seen the show.I know watching Suze has helped me understand the current housing crisis there ,about 16 months ago we thought we had to buy quickly down in USA but probably I will wait a year + before looking at our Florida/Arizona Investment purchase.Last night's show I thought was interesting to hear Suze say she and some other powerful people are trying to get laws changed so people can declare bankruptcy on student loans.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Although I did ask for and appreciate all the comments, I am a bit surprised that folks here are coming down so hard on Suze. Yes of course she needs to make money. Why are we villifying her for that? Most of the financial websites out there hammer visitors with ads and spyware, far in excess of her salespitches. I don't begrudge her a 5 minute plug for her books in the course of 90 min speech. Let's not be distracted by this and instead listen to what she is actually saying, like marina seems to be doing. Whether or not you agree with her approach or product pitches, her message is very clear and needs to be understood by the masses. People are not saving enough for their own retirement and rainy days, instead choosing to spend money they don't have and making lifestyle choices they can't afford. I see a strong woman giving people a good dose of badly-needed reality check.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I watched a bit of it this afternoon. I was left thinking: "Are people really that much dumber than me that they are willing to be talked down to in such a manner?"

I can't really complain about the content, but the delivery left me wanting.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Calling out Suze is like calling out CMF for running ads in the header.I read that article and really is bad taste to refer to her former waitress .There are some people that have many degrees that are complete Idiots as well.I do not know all Suze's background but she has to know something about money to have all these books and TV shows.
I follow Suze's show with my friend ,it is our saturday night thing we do .My friend has made quite a bit of changes in her life thanks to Suze .Over three years she had paid off $19,000 in credit card debt ,started her retirement goals and her emergency fund while trying to put kids through school.
The article about Suze is 7 years ago and if we want to read the entire article we have to pay lol 
http://www.clarkhoward.com/clarksdeal/ and http://www.clarkhoward.com/ads/ also shows commercial deals that he is doing.If any of us had the vehicle that Suze does we would all be pumping the commercial endorsements so why should she be any different.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Suze Orman recommended people buy homes all the way through the home price implosion, which turned out to be a big mistake for anyone who listened to her advice.

She has focused her advice more narrowly and cautiously now, but the water is under the bridge already.

She is okay for day to day budgetting and simple financial matters, but certainly isn't someone who should be taken seriously for more intensive financial matters.

Spend less than you earn?.............pretty well textbook advice.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

The smartest thing she preaches was posted in a video long ago.

http://vimeo.com/3993848


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## whitby (Nov 17, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Although I did ask for and appreciate all the comments, I am a bit surprised that folks here are coming down so hard on Suze. Yes of course she needs to make money. Why are we villifying her for that? Most of the financial websites out there hammer visitors with ads and spyware, far in excess of her salespitches. I don't begrudge her a 5 minute plug for her books in the course of 90 min speech. Let's not be distracted by this and instead listen to what she is actually saying, like marina seems to be doing. Whether or not you agree with her approach or product pitches, her message is very clear and needs to be understood by the masses. People are not saving enough for their own retirement and rainy days, instead choosing to spend money they don't have and making lifestyle choices they can't afford. I see a strong woman giving people a good dose of badly-needed reality check.


I have to agree with you.

Our fellow posters seem to very upset with her message and her delivery.

She tells it like it is and yes she was once a waitress but she also has a degree from the University of Illinois and she has used her talent to create a vast financial empire. Her net worth is reportedly well over $100 million.

Perhaps her comments are hitting too close to home for some posters.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

sags said:


> She is okay for day to day budgetting and simple financial matters, but certainly isn't someone who should be taken seriously for more intensive financial matters.
> 
> Spend less than you earn?.............pretty well textbook advice.


I agree! 

She is popular because many people need that 'simple' advice that she delivers; they don't go to her for stock picking advice & I happen to agree with a lot of what she says. 

I also agree with TRM that some of the criticism is too harsh & no doubt motivated by jealousy [by those in the field]. It's human nature!


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

I have no problem with her. As long as you realize that she is above all, an entertainer.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

square root has it nailed, she's an entertainer.

i tried to remember her parents' take-out chicken establishment from when i used to live near the U of chicago, but i couldn't.

community had several weird eateries including a joint once labelled See Your Food Eat Your Food.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

I think she and other entertainment-style money gurus such as Dave Ramsey have helped a lot of people get control over their finances and eliminate debt. But apart from my personal distaste for her hard-sell style, I guess it just bothers me that she is so overtly "do as I say, not as I do." She encourages people to invest in the stock market, but only keeps $1 million of her own $32 million fortune in the stock market and the rest of it is in bonds; when asked why she says she wouldn't miss $1 million if she lost it all, so clearly she doesn't view the stock market as a good place to put her own investments.

Granted she doesn't need to be frugal, and she doesn't need to live like the rest of us; I suppose if I had $32 million I could justify spending $500K/year flying private jets, but there are better things she could do with half a million bucks.

You can get a lot of the same advice from people like JD Roth at Get Rich Slowly (who wrote "Your Money: The Missing Manual") or Andrew Tobias, etc., without all the glitz, merchandise, and show business. But I have to remember that millions of people watch shows like Oprah, and Suse Orman's approach is probably the best way to reach them.


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

she is way too American for me...


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I once went to see David Bach and it was like going to a rock concert, without all the noise. Thousands of people were hanging on to his every word and all he kept saying was essentially "spend less than you make". Sure he and Suze are raking in millions telling others to pinch their pennies but where's the harm in that?

I do agree with Brad that there is a bit of "do as I say" in the advice Suze doles out. It's easy telling everyone to hang on to their stocks when all you own is T-bills. Or how to raise "financially smart" kids when she doesn't have any of her own.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

I've been to a David Bach show in Toronto and completely agree.
I felt disappointed.

I've nothing against Suze (or any other) profiting from their success and from helping others.
I'd think most of the financial advice they give is sound in general and without getting into specific details about everyone's situation.

I just think there comes a point where it becomes more about the "show" rather than about the advice and the help.
I think Suze has turned that corner, rather turned that corner some time ago.

That whole segment with her call centre taking constant incoming calls for ordering her books and DVDs was just too overtly tacky for me.
It seemed like I was watching the late-night shopping channel rather than a financial advice show for those few minutes.

I also find it ironical that all this advice and pomp and show was missing between 2004 - 2007 and now once everything has fallen apart, all of a sudden, she has a new book and scores of new DVDs ready to be bought by those that are already struggling financially.


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## GeniusBoy27 (Jun 11, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> square root has it nailed, she's an entertainer.
> 
> i tried to remember her parents' take-out chicken establishment from when i used to live near the U of chicago, but i couldn't.
> 
> community had several weird eateries including a joint once labelled See Your Food Eat Your Food.


*laughing out loud* ... that's too funny!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

It's all about motivation.

People who are deep in debt won't benefit from reading about asset allocation - they need coaching, motivation, a kick in the butt - whatever you want to call it.

These people who have as much unsecured debt as they have annual income need help. They can't help themselves (or they would), professional financial advisors can't make money from them - so they turn to the gurus.

Regardless of their flaws (and they have lots), Gurus are motivators that can reach the common person and they do help a lot of people. Ramsey, for example has a huge cult following in the US even though his investment advice isn't very good.

I read this article last week by an advisor about the fact that the "gurus" reach far more people than all the financial advisors combined.

http://www.kitces.com/blog/archives...To-Learn-From-Suze-Orman-and-Dave-Ramsey.html


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I would like to hear Orman or Ramsey or one of the financial "gurus" explain their solution to systemic unemployment and stagnant wages. 

Then I would be able to fully appreciate their financial acumen.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

sags said:


> I would like to hear Orman or Ramsey or one of the financial "gurus" explain their solution to systemic unemployment and stagnant wages.


But that's not really relevant to their area of expertise, which is personal (i.e. family) finances. Expecting them to be up on macroeconomics would be like expecting a brain surgeon to be able to provide nutritional advice just because she's a doctor.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

brad said:


> I think she and other entertainment-style money gurus such as Dave Ramsey have helped a lot of people get control over their finances and eliminate debt. But apart from my personal distaste for her hard-sell style, I guess it just bothers me that she is so overtly "do as I say, not as I do." She encourages people to invest in the stock market, but only keeps $1 million of her own $32 million fortune in the stock market and the rest of it is in bonds; when asked why she says she wouldn't miss $1 million if she lost it all, so clearly she doesn't view the stock market as a good place to put her own investments.
> 
> Granted she doesn't need to be frugal, and she doesn't need to live like the rest of us; I suppose if I had $32 million I could justify spending $500K/year flying private jets, but there are better things she could do with half a million bucks.
> 
> You can get a lot of the same advice from people like JD Roth at Get Rich Slowly (who wrote "Your Money: The Missing Manual") or Andrew Tobias, etc., without all the glitz, merchandise, and show business. But I have to remember that millions of people watch shows like Oprah, and Suse Orman's approach is probably the best way to reach them.


Suze is 60 years old and probably investing for somebody in her age group.As for private jets ,I am not worth 32 million dollars but I spend about the same percentage of my net worth each year on Business class tickets as Ms.Orman does on private Jets.Her spending $500,000 is probably the same as most people spending $1000.
If you watch the shows you will see many people in really bad shape due to job loss and being under water with their homes , they need somebody to guide them and for that Suze does a great job.
Also many people call in and ask can they afford early retirement ,when Suze shows them how much social security they will have to work an extra couple years most people decide to work these couple years.Maybe their own financial adviser does not make it as black and white as she does.
Avon just hooked up with Suze and many of these people are low income so don't have much.Having somebody like Suze show you what a few dollars over time will achieve is probably what many of them need to boost their self esteem and want for a better life.


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## DavidJD (Sep 27, 2009)

Why is this entertaining? 

For some people it is downright enlightening to hear that you cannot spend as you please indefinately. Others (few on this forum need such advice) enjoy seeing kids get told by a maternal figure what to do about getting the business sorted out. Seriously jars with cash? Each of her shows has the same message and even the same sound track. When she looks at the couple and tells them that if they don't shape up their debt will be $1.4 M in 3 years, the music gets lower and they are expected to squirm for the camera. That is the entertaining bit for us (as a NAmerican society - not clever Money Forum readers). Also the struggle they have to go through the rest of the show is easier than us going through it (saving and doing without out our new motorcycle). Or we enjoy others, who are spenders, having to live the way we do - frugally and within our means?

Same thing as the Biggest Loser shows. We want some fit guy to tell obese people they will die sooner than they expect because they are lazy, unhealthy slobs who eat too much. We are entertained. Then we sit on the sofa drinking cokes and eating cheezies while we watch highlights of them working out and bawling in pain. 

All of these choices and knowledge are understood by everyone, it is nothing new for anyone.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I checked out Gail's website last night and watched a couple clips where she goes back to the families to get update.One couple went bankrupt ,two got divorced ,one as soon as debt was paid off ,the other went $44,000 in the hole to get the divorce.What got me was a couple 9 months later who had only paid off $5000 of their debt and were still on same course.They were in nice house and wearing nice clothes as if they were somebody yet they didn't own the clothes on their back.
I have a friend who lives in a townhouse ,she is a beautiful girl , model like beautiful and a size 4 or 6 .She buys all her clothes at value village ,her home is beautiful ,she has bought stuff at yard sales and cleaned them up or made covers for her furniture and her own pillows and duvet covers.She just had her 40th birthday ,never been married although had a few close calls.She has never earned more than $35,000 in her life yet she pays her mortgage goes on a yearly trip to Florida and always has money when she needs it.I look at these forums and the shows and always think of her and what she would do and could accomplish if she had a $50,000 a year income.How do people make $100,000+ a year and spend $8000 a month more than they make?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

marina628 said:


> How do people make $100,000+ a year and spend $8000 a month more than they make?


I think there's a sort of psychological transformation that happens to many people once they pass $100,000 in annual income -- it's as if they view themselves as having entered the ranks of the wealthy and have permission to spend freely. And that gets them into trouble. 

I think it's actually easier to live within your means at a moderate income than at a high income, because a high income lulls you into a sense that there are no limits. Hence the strategy practiced by some high-income people who want to don't want to fall into this trap: divert most of your paycheque into savings/investments, paying off the mortgage, etc., leaving behind just enough to live on until your next paycheque.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think there is a lot of social/peer pressure to have expensive cars, go on elaborate trips, oversized houses with $50k kitchens. All these conspicuous consumption items need to be replaced continuously and do an excellent job of keeping someone making six figures from getting ahead.

I feel it myself already, and I don't even make six figures. Everyone around me at work, when I was talking about car shopping, was recommending I buy a car that costs my annual gross salary or more. I managed to keep my jaw off the floor, but just barely. I take modest vacations, and I can tell people think it's odd that I'm not spending 5 grand touring Europe or something. You have to be okay with not fitting the mould, I guess.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> I would like to hear Orman or Ramsey or one of the financial "gurus" explain their solution to systemic unemployment and stagnant wages.
> 
> Then I would be able to fully appreciate their financial acumen.


I think the problem is you would be one of the few people who would be interested or understand what they are talking about. The majority of the population wants something entertaining, and quick that can motivate them. Not alot of the information is new, but most people need it presented to them in a simple, easy to understand manner, and multiple times. 

These people don't have to miser or not spend their money to be an expert. The fact that they managed to make the money themselves is what makes them more credible. I always find forums interesting, when people ask for advice, but often we do not know if they've made it or not, or have any experience in the area. 



marina628 said:


> .How do people make $100,000+ a year and spend $8000 a month more than they make?


I don't necessary think it has to do with how much you make. The ability to make money is one skill, the ability to save money is another. To be successful, you need to have the ability to balance the two.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

DavidJD: You got it. It's a little sick but entertaining none the less.


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