# Mortgage Maturity Strategy for Multiple mortgages



## daledegagne (Apr 6, 2015)

I have 5 mortgages on different properties. 3 of them are coming due within the month. I have not been given the rate I wanted by my current bank, so I'm a little annoyed.

I have another 2 that come due in a year, that are with another institution.


So here are my thoughts;

Option 1 - Manage them so that they mature in different years. By staggering them, I diversify my risk of interest rate hikes.

Option 2 - I sign the 3 of them to a 1 year, which means they all come due around the same time, giving me flexibility to change institutions and use my account size to get a better deal.


I'll be honest - I'm a little sick of these salesman making me fight for a rate. It makes me feel like I'm not important to them. I would prefer option 2 because I'd love to give them a reminder that the customer is king. But I also don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Thoughts?


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Did you actually talk to the bank, or just get "the letter and phone call"?

If you go into the bank and talk to upper management you usually get a much better rate, especially since they pull up your profile and see that you hold multiple properties.

The other thing to do is to ask for all their rates from 1-10 years. Sometimes they have "sales" in weird years (like 4 or 7) which they don't normally look at, so don't know about. I've seen as much as a 1% difference lower than shorter terms (so 4 years was actually cheaper than 3, or 7 was lower than 5). 

Also, you need to talk to people higher up, the lower level guys aren't authorized to give the maximum discount without approval. If you have a competing rate quote, it also helps...but, all that being said, most branches are limited in how low they can go and are governed by their head offices in Toronto.

As for timing, it may be nice to have them mature all at the same time, but having a lot mature around the same time can be confusing if it's not all of them. I had a bunch mature close together, thought I'd renewed them all, but the bank missed one (thinking they'd done them all). They eventually caught it once it expired, which causes a renewal issue (having to phone into Toronto, make a "catch up" payment and then renewing the mortgage). Not a big problem, but it takes more time. I've been through this a few times because the bank misses one. If they are on different years, and only one, you don't run into this, it usually happens when I have 3-4 all coming due within a couple of months.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Hate to break this to you but no bank cares about your mortgages which they already have. Banks (and their sales-force) focus on bringing in 'new money' rather than retention. So yeah, since they already made money with you, they don't need to retain you anymore and wont force themselves to give a better rate. 'Take it or leave' as they say.

Deal with a broker and let him know you have 5 mortgages......now there, you are king! Broker will be very interested when your renewal comes along because not only will the broker make sure to get you the best rate out there, he will get remunerated as a new deal each time! 

So for that reason, I would choose option 2 so that when you have 5 mortgages to renew at once, your broker will work on your case more than anyone else's.....1% of your total mortgage loans is a nice payout for the broker! You truly will have the upper hand here and could request such perks as extra rate buy-downs or even a cash-back!


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## daledegagne (Apr 6, 2015)

Just a Guy said:


> Did you actually talk to the bank, or just get "the letter and phone call"?
> 
> If you go into the bank and talk to upper management you usually get a much better rate, especially since they pull up your profile and see that you hold multiple properties.
> 
> ...


Yes i did go speak with an advisor. He is a "Senior" advisor, but we all know their titles don't mean jack. At the end of the day he reached out to Toronto and they came back with a set of rates that isn't what I want. Is there a way to go higher than him? He's pushing to have me sign tomorrow because he's going on holidays. The mortgages don't renew for another month.

For the timing thing, is that the biggest downside? Just keeping them all straight?


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## daledegagne (Apr 6, 2015)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Hate to break this to you but no bank cares about your mortgages which they already have. Banks (and their sales-force) focus on bringing in 'new money' rather than retention. So yeah, since they already made money with you, they don't need to retain you anymore and wont force themselves to give a better rate. 'Take it or leave' as they say.
> 
> Deal with a broker and let him know you have 5 mortgages......now there, you are king! Broker will be very interested when your renewal comes along because not only will the broker make sure to get you the best rate out there, he will get remunerated as a new deal each time!
> 
> So for that reason, I would choose option 2 so that when you have 5 mortgages to renew at once, your broker will work on your case more than anyone else's.....1% of your total mortgage loans is a nice payout for the broker! You truly will have the upper hand here and could request such perks as extra rate buy-downs or even a cash-back!


I just did the math. My mortgages would be a very nice 1 month salary for a broker. Are you a broker?


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

daledegagne said:


> I just did the math. My mortgages would be a very nice 1 month salary for a broker. Are you a broker?


No I am not a broker but I work for a large mono-line lender that caters to broker business so mortgages is one thing I know very well.
You have time to renew. I highly advise you seek a reputable mortgage broker. I guarantee you that he can keep your mortgages at your bank and get you a better deal than any 'senior advisor' at the branch. Like I mentioned, the bank already has your business so they don't care if you stay. 

Also, rates have gone up recently so you may have missed the boat if you did not reserve your rates already. Variable rates are down to prime minus 0.35% where 1 month ago they were -0.65%. Remember, you can lock in rates up to 120 days before maturity. If you don't like the rates now, take a short term and see where the rates will be next year. My recommendation has always been to stick with variable. Looks like they will rise slightly but nothing that will break the bank. If your fighting for 5bps, it's really not worth it given our historic record low rates. You should rather worry about your penalty calculations if your with a bank since that's one element that banks are a major fail on - which is another reason to seek a Mortgage Broker.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

Option 3 - go to a mortgage broker and get a far better rate, assuming you have strong credit (you no doubt do)

I just got a renewal at 2.15% I work in a financial institution and that's better than our employee rate.

I don't know if I'm allowed to pitch for Monster Mortgage in here. That's who I went with. I have no affiliation with them, other than being a customer. I've also researched True North Mortgage and several others, including a few local brokers.

It shouldn't take long to make some calls and the choice will be clear.

Having them come up for renewal at similar times can have it's advantages. As you retire mortgages, you will have the opportunity to move the remaining mortgages around as you wish. There are a couple of situations where that is an advantage. We moved our lake house mortgage over to a rental home that was without mortgage so now there is no effort in deducting the interest.


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Deal with a broker and let him know you have 5 mortgages......now there, you are king! Broker will be very interested when your renewal comes along because not only will the broker make sure to get you the best rate out there, he will get remunerated as a new deal each time!


On point!

I am not a big fish but my broker treats me like I am. I literally get more respect from my broker than any other individual in the world of business.

Find a good broker and develop a good relationship with them. If you can get into a situation where you treat each other well, you'll both profit tremendously from the relationship.


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