# Moving from Ontario to Quebec



## bounzer

Hi Everyone! I currently live and work in Ontario, and need to move to Quebec for a new position with the same company. What are the tax rules for my 2010 income tax return? I know Quebec pays more taxes and I will see less net on my pay going forward, but what will happen with my income tax return? Can I wait to change my address in 2011, since I lived in Ontario for most of the year? I have a dependant (parent), which I will continue to support. So my household in Ontario will continue to be maintained. Please do not include info about eligible moving expenses, as I'm already aware of what I can claim. I'm more concerned with the bottom line, due to credits I currently claim on my return. Is there anyway around this? Thanks for your help.


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## OhGreatGuru

Neither the federal nor provincial governments are interested in helping a tax payer use one province as a tax haven from another, So you are likely out of luck. Generally speaking your province of residence for tax purposes is the province where you are "ordinarily resident" on Dec.31.

Try reading CRA's several guides and Q&A on residency to see if you can find a loophole. You might be able get away with it for 2011 by fibbing about when you actually changed your residency, since you still own a residence in Ontario. But we don't usually recommend perjuring yourself on this forum. But think about it from Quebec's point of view- if you are a resident of the province, using their services (health care, roads, etc.) why shouldn't you be paying them taxes?


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## MoneyGal

As OGG has said, the general rule is that you pay tax in the province where you are "ordinarily resident" on December 31. 

(True story: I am an Albertan, born and raised; when I was in university in Ontario I dutifully flew home to Alberta so I could be "ordinarily resident" in the province of my birth and save on tax.)

In a challenge, CRA will look to the following factors to determine which province you are located in for tax purposes: 

- the location of your principal residence
- where your bank accounts are held
- where your driver's license is registered
- where you receive your health care benefits

All in all, unless you delay your move until the very end of the year you will find that you will be deemed to be a resident of Quebec for tax purposes. Maintaining another household won't be sufficient...CRA cares about where YOU live and thus where YOU should pay tax.


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## kcowan

Do you own the house in Ontario? Are you buying a house in Quebec? If you are claiming your parent as a dependent, will that change in any way?

You might want to refer to http://www.taxwiki.ca/IT-221+Determination+of+Residence


> In some cases, an individual will be considered to be resident in more than one province on December 31 of a particular taxation year.


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## OhGreatGuru

Keep things in perspective. 2/3 of your income tax bill is federal - it won't change. The main pain in filing Quebec income tax is the necessity to file a separate tax return to the province, and dealing with two tax agencies, instead of doing it on a provincial Schedule with your federal return. But the other provinces have been increasing the length and complexity of their provincial schedules over the years, so the difference may not be as great as it used to be.

Certainly not worth risking a tax audit over.

PS: how do you propose to get on a voter's list in Quebec if you don't tell the government you live there?


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## bbsj

The additional hassle for moving to Quebec is that you will be paying into the Quebec Pension Plan instead of CPP. If you make a decent salary and move midway through the year, would you be paying the full CPP plus full QPP. I am not sure how this works.


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## Square Root

MoneyGal has most of the important factors listed save one- where you are employed. This one would seem to be a problem for you. Pay your tax it's only a few %pts different. You should be able to use this as leverage to get a raise from your employer, right?


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## humble_pie

i like that he's already aware of the work-related moving expenses that he can claim while contemplating keeping the old address in ontario as principal residence ...


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## Square Root

A bit like having your cake and eating it too?


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## m3s

If you are keeping your house in Ontario for a dependant, I would go great lengths to keep that as my primary residence. I would keep my licence and vehicle registered in Ontario. Lots of people have an apartment or place to stay for work while their family lives elsewhere. The QPP, SAAQ and Revenue Quebec are nightmares. Once you sign up with them you will have trouble after you leave. They added a French accent to my name and they don't accept married names etc. I've lived in almost every province.

Edit: I love living and Quebec and love the culture, but their administration is horrendous in my experience compared to all other provinces. It is more or less another country


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## MoneyGal

Yes, but you expose yourself to an entirely different risk if you do this - the risk that after 90 days, any damage to your vehicle in the event of an accident will not be covered by your insurer because you accepted a permanent transfer to another province and did not update your insurance company to allow them to re-price the risk.


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## OhGreatGuru

I agree with MoneyGal. Your health insurance, Vehicle registration, and auto insurance are based on where you are ordinarily resident, not whether you own a "principal residence" in another province. Regading mode3sour's comment, I have heard similar stories/complaints about the Quebec bureacracy but that's an environmental factor you have to take into consideration when deciding to move there.


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## MoneyGal

Gah. I said "damage to your vehicle" when that is likely the least significant risk to which you would be exposed in this circumstance - the real risk is loss of vehicle liability coverage: that is, your coverage for loss or damage to ANOTHER person's vehicle or person, which could run into the millions.


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## humble_pie

i am very fond of revenu québec.

c'est le fisc le plus gentille, le plus amical.

le cra ? un vrai cauchemar.


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## bounzer

Thanks everyone for your replies! This is all food for thought, and unfortunate considering I've sent 75% of the year in Ontario.


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