# Living near Toronto



## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

Hey all,

Might have to move to Toronto area in the near future. We can't afford anything that touches Toronto so we have been looking at Barrie, Kitchener/Waterloo, Hamilton, and St Catharine's. 
Looking for input in regards to which places are nice, nice people, things to do, future potential of city, potential of real estate market, current affordability, and personal views of each.
Other cities are welcome, but I want to stay less than 100km from Toronto.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Are you planning on commuting? Will there be more than one person commuting in the household? If you need to commute into the city, I suspect the biggest factor will be the availability of reliable commuting options.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Those are awfully long commutes.

Rent.


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

You might want to express how close you want to live in commuting time, rather than kilometres. I've said this so many times I'm actually tired of saying it, but the commute in time in Toronto is nothing like most places on earth (possibly LA excluded). Rather than saying you want to live <100 kms from toronto (and remember, Toronto itself is very large, you might want to say something like the intersection of bay/bloor versus Toronto) you probably want to say you want to have a commute of less than 90 minutes one way.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Densest traffic and worst commute in North America is in the Washington DC area. Having been there 4x over the last few months for work I can confirm the Washington commute makes a GTA commute look like...like nothing. 

Here's an interesting and provocative piece on "the true cost of commuting:" http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-commuting/


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Life is too short.

But if you must...IMO everyone considering this should spend at least a week doing the actual commute *during rush hour, both ways*, before making any commitments to buy the property. 

IMO, choosing to commute is insanity. But I also understand the unaffordability of decent housing for most people these days. RE prices are insane, which is what forces people away.

Try another part of the country? LOL


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

And quoting from that article: 

_The alternative I would have recommended to this couple, if they had asked my opinion, would be to make sure their house is within biking distance of both jobs, immediately sell both borrowed cars and replace them with a single ten-year-old manual transmission hatchback, and finally, let the good times roll. Setting aside $10k to keep the new car on the road, they will certainly enjoy their $115,000 of extra cash after ten short years, and if they combine this trick with a few of the other MMM classics, they’ll be able to move to historic old-town Longmont as EARLY RETIREES within ten years, instead of being broke wage slaves still commuting out of here every morning when the year 2021 rolls around.
_

I'm probably quoting this for the smug factor alone. We drive a 12-year-old hatchback that we repair ourselves and we *will not* work in jobs that can't be reached by bike (preferable) AND transit (backup). However, this is all moot because we bought our Toronto house more than 10 years ago, when it was still "affordable."


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> ... Washington DC area. Having been there 4x over the last few months for work ...






MoneyGal said:


> ..
> 
> we *will not* work in jobs that can't be reached by bike (preferable) AND transit (backup)
> 
> ..


Are you saying you rode your bike or took the TTC to Washington?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Lol. When other people are paying the freight, I will work anywhere (apparently).

Oh! but I will add I *love* the DC metro system.


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## boba (Feb 3, 2011)

Like the others asked, are you going to comute ? If yes do you know in each part of Toronto are you going to work ? If it's somwhere north chose Barrie (from your list). If it's downtown ar west chose something on the west side (Hamilton). StCatherine is way to far for commuting. I would include Burlington on your list, prices are lower than Oakbille Mississauga and you have easy access to Go (if you need to go Downtown). You can also look to smaller areas around like Waterdown for example. Also Milton could be an option.If you move from another province and are not used with Toronto and area, I would rent first get used with area and buy later.


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## Sustainable PF (Nov 5, 2010)

Consider living east of T.O. Oshawa (while not a place I want to live) does have a Go-Train stop that you can use instead of driving in and out daily. If you are willing to drive then take the train Port Hope or Peterborough are affordable choices.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

In order to have any kind of a reasonable commute from the suburbs, you need to be either close to a GO Train station or the 407 ETR toll road.
However, the 407 doesn't work for downtown Toronto.
So if you will be working downtown Toronto, your only choice is to be close to a GO Transit station.

However, keep in mind that GO rides from far flung suburbs like Hamilton, Barrie, Kitchener, Milton, Unionville, etc. that were suggested above are long, long, and slow.
Plan for anywhere between 90 mins. to 2 hrs. _each way_, every day.
Add between 10% to 20% more for winter delays on the GO lines.

Peterborough on the east is a _long_ drive, too.

Sorry, I don't have a better answer.

I'll have to second the suggestion above for renting for a while until you can get a lay of the land and get your bearings.
It is very dangerous to buy a house in this kind of insane, overvalued, RE market without knowing what you are getting into.


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

and include the cost in your math. Many of my coworkers find commuting very expensive, once you factor in:

cost of gas/mainteannce on car trip to and from go station (unless you live in walking distance, unlikely)
parking at go station (some stations are so busy, they pay extra for a guaranteed parking spot)
the go train pass itself
unless you work at union station or closeby, you'll be getting a ttc metropass

I think it can very easily add up to $400/month for one person with little cost saving if there's two of you. However, I'm a lifelong Torontonian who has never taken the go train so don't trust my numbers exactly but trust my message: check the math.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

How hard have you looked inside Toronto? Satellite cities and commuter towns will generally never have the same economic resilience as a properly diversified city. RE prices are supported by the local job market. Figure out what industries are located where you want to live and if they can continue infinite growth in your life time. Most southwestern Ontario towns have depressed real estate because Ontario's manufacturing sector is still in a recession. As others said defining a maximum commute time will also narrow your search.


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## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

OK, 
Further clarification would include commuting to the airport (yyz). And I would like to keep it around 1 hour drive. I will do this drive about 6 times per month...


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

OK, that opens up quite a few options for you.
The YYZ airport is well connected to all the major highways, including the 407 toll road, 401, 403 and the QEW.
You do not need to be close to a GO line for this.
Approx. driving time from some of the cities suggested above (off peak to peak):

Kitchener/Waterloo - 40 mins. - 1 hr.
St. Catherine's - 1 hr. - 2 hrs.
Barrie - 1 hr. to 2 hrs.
Milton - 20 mins. to 1 hr.
Hamilton - 1 hr. - 1.5 hrs.
Peterborough - 2 hrs. - 2.5 hrs.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

We need more clarification on what you would consider affordable housing. For example 500k for a detached house might be considered very affordable for someone used to Toronto prices, but very expensive for someone from Windsor.

We also need more details about what part of the GTA you will need to be close to, since it takes more than an hour in rush hour to go from one side to the other. For example if you are working in the westernmost part of the GTA you could probably live somewhere like Acton. For the easternmost part of the GTA, you'd want to look at Oshawa. If you work in the north central part of the GTA, look for a house in Keswick.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

We need more people like moneygal doing their part to save the planet ,another reason to live close to your work .http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...2012/04/02/nl-bonavista-bear-402.html?cmp=rss


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If you don't mind the commute, I would suggest London, Ontario

A beautiful, well treed city with all the amenities including world class University and 3 hospitals.

Close enough to the Festival in Stratford, Great Lakes Huron and Erie, an hour to US shopping, all the major restaurants and food services, theatres, Fanshawe College, great minor sports programs, numerous indoor malls including the large Westmount and Masonville Malls and all other amenities.

A one bedroom condo for 120,000 or so, 50ish bungalow here is about 200,000 and a McMansion could be had for 300,00 plus.

For the price of a one bedroom condo in TO.........you can buy a penthouse suite in an upscale building here.....and have change left over.

Sorry........didn't notice your post about the airport. To drive.........401 to 407.....depending on traffic 2-3 hours.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I would suggest Oshawa or Hamilton, you can still get cheap housing there.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

Jungle said:


> I would suggest Oshawa or Hamilton, you can still get cheap housing there.


Oshawa has the highest property taxes in the country (or at least in ON), so that eliminates much of the savings from less expensive real estate.

As for the rest of the thread I see poeple are trying their best to offer suggestion but with so little info given by OP it seems like trying to complete a puzzle with missing pieces.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

Franky Jr said:


> OK,
> Further clarification would include commuting to the airport (yyz). And I would like to keep it around 1 hour drive. I will do this drive about 6 times per month...


So you want N/E of Toronto . . . Orangeville and the surrounds . . . depending on price point . . . Shelbourne, Fergus, Tottenham, Beeton, Erin, Bradford, Barrie is do-able, so is Guelph, Acton, and Milton . . . also consider what time of day you need to commute . . . early morning, night shift, or 9 to 5 . . . did this commute from Beeton to YYZ for about 10 years . . . got worse and worse each year . . . moved !


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## dsaljurator (Jan 12, 2012)

Homerhomer said:


> Oshawa has the highest property taxes in the country (or at least in ON), so that eliminates much of the savings from less expensive real estate.


Oshawa is also on the wrong side of the city to commute to the airport IMO. driving across the full length of the 401 every day is not my idea of a fun commute. All Mall Guy said, i'd be looking at the smaller communities north east of the city.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

We still don't know OPs price range. You have to take in account the cost of your commute too when you live in rural nowhere. If you a close enough to a station to use the GO monthly pass you'll probably save like $4-8K/yr in gas (Barrie is definitely in the upper range)

A quick look at Milton shows 3 bedroom homes selling for 350-400K, same prices as Brampton/Mississauga or an "affordable" neighbourhood in Toronto, just more remote. Maybe they give you a bit bigger lot though.

Mall guy that sounds like a nightmare commute, how did you do it?!? I could only do that once in awhile and taking the scenic route. There are some pretty great winding sidestreets and landscapes to be seen in Caledon.


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## JustAGuy (Feb 5, 2012)

I also vote for the rent option instead of buying... I rented there for 8 years... and when I finally started biking to work instead of taking transit I found that not only did it cost less, I got there faster, and lost a little weight.

If you're going to commute by car better to be on the east side... driving twice a day with the sun in your eyes isn't fun. Otherwise, I wouldn't recommend taking a train any further away than Oakville... spare time is precious... sure you can kill a couple hours a day reading, but if you've got family? I'm sure you'd like to spend some time with them.

Just my 5 cents (figure that without pennies I'd better get used to changing that expression)


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## TorontoRentals (Apr 5, 2012)

I find a little bit inconvenient for me to commute but it all depends on the person. Some people think having a car is less stress but you'll going to spend money on that too. anyway, if you have no choice commute is the easiest way.


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## JustAGuy (Feb 5, 2012)

Parking in Toronto isn't exactly cheap.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

ddkay said:


> Mall guy that sounds like a nightmare commute, how did you do it?!? I could only do that once in awhile and taking the scenic route. There are some pretty great winding sidestreets and landscapes to be seen in Caledon.


At the time, most of it was rural (no longer the case), and to the airport area it was 45 minutes, and I only hit 5 traffic lights. The killer was commuting from Hockley Valley to Yonge & St. Clair . . . 75 minutes on the best day . . . moved . . . now 4 kms to work in a small town Canada.

Many who worked on the west side of DT TO lived up Hwy 50 & 27. . .


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

Oh, and to the whole thing, I would add the words of of a Canadian comedian (that I can picture but just can't remember the name) . . . "if you drive 2 hours out of Toronto, your still in Toronto !"


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Brampton or North Mississauga. I'd go with an older townhouse. A couple landlords I know have found a couple for under $200K and did some renos. Maintenance Fees are about $200-$300 per month.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

my daughter lives in Etobicoke and rents room in a townhouse, her landlord is selling at $180,000 AFTER she finishes the basement and does all new paint ,carpets and a new bathroom.Probably they go for $150,000 without updates.That is very close to airport.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I have a 6 year old detached house in Oshawa on a 45x150 ft lot ,house is 1500 sq ft and my property taxes are $3300 for 2012 ,this is one of my investment properties and tax assessment is $238,000.My friend in whitby pays $3800 for similar home.I believe once you go up in the $350,000+ range Oshawa taxes go nuts ,my friend has a Jeffery built home Up in North Oshawa and she paid $7000 last year for a 2600 sq foot home on a ravine lot 60x130 ft.Her value was about $440,000.


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