# Dividend Investors - What are you buying? (or selling)



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

For those of us who focus on a dividend investing strategy, what are you currently buying or selling? I always appreciate hearing comments and suggestions from others.

Taxable Acct
Started positions in CU & GWO in late February.
Added to PPL in early March.
Added to TRP in early April.

TFSA
Started position in Dream Industrial REIT in late February.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I guess you should qualify what you consider a dividend stock?

Myself, any of my stocks with a dividend under 2%, I consider growth, even though they pay a small dividend. Most of their earnings are plowed back in.

For example, CCL.B = 1.2%, DOL = 0.35%, MRU = 1.7%, SAP = 1.77%, ATD.B = 0.84%, CNR = 1.65%, CP = 0.82%.

Do you consider these growth or dividend?

ltr


----------



## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

My most recent dividend stock purchase was Algoma Central, ALC. Shipping company. The fundamentals looked good to me and it pays a nice dividend.


----------



## where's hunter? (Jan 27, 2021)

thinking about selling telus


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

I have been rather active in 2021 (active by my standards) It should be noted that I hold approximately 40 stocks with a portfolio weighting between .25% and 5.1% Current cash is just over 10%. Usually I sit at 5-10%

I sold BPY in January and replaced it with I bought CHP.UN same month (new position)
I sold US Regional Bank PBCT in February on news of being acquired replaced with another Regional PFS in March (new postion)
I bought MMM in February (new position)
I added to my existing position of Telus a few weeks ago making it my 5th largest holding
I trimmed WEF a day or two ago because it was currently overweight and its dividend activities in 2020. will likely sell more if the SP continues to climb and I can find somewhere to reallocate.

I too am looking for suggestions. I have spent the morning looking for a US water utility. I haven't gotten super excited at first glance.

WTRG (don't like the current cashflow and payout do like the dividend growth history but currently yield is at its average)
GWRS (like the concept/ hate the stock)
still have to look at AWK, ARTNA . been a few years since I looked at AWK

May have to look outside the states.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Very happy with BEP, BIP.
Always some banks.

I'm thinking Fortis will make an entry into my TFSA at some point.


----------



## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Fortis, BCE, Telus look good to me. As does BNS, CM, and MFC. Nice that you can still get 4-6% yields. I would also consider TRP.


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

I recently added more Telus after a quick 5% drop in price, not a great buy but decent. Mostly I've been holding my nose as share prices continue to rise every day. Been here before.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Gator13 said:


> For those of us who focus on a dividend investing strategy, what are you currently buying or selling? I always appreciate hearing comments and suggestions from others.
> 
> Taxable Acct
> Started positions in CU & GWO in late February.
> ...


I get regular emails from Dividend Earner. I haven't actually used his stuff much, but he does have some good ideas and ways of choosing dividend stocks.

For example: Retirement Model Portfolio


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I also occasionally look at DividendEarner as well via emails and website for another opinion and ideas, but the individual is too focused on yield in, for example, the Retirement Model Portfolio. Per LTR in post #2, it would be a shame to ignore some excellent Total Return stocks like ATD.B and CNR.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> excellent Total Return stocks like ATD.B and CNR.


Actually, he has both of those in his portfolio. He has different suggestions for accumulation and retirement.





__





Dividend Stocks Portfolio


The goal of this portfolio is to build wealth through stock appreciation while earning a steady dividend income. In other words, a passive income machine.




dividendearner.com


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

AltaRed said:


> Per LTR in post #2, it would be a shame to ignore some excellent Total Return stocks like ATD.B and CNR.


Yep, for sure, and that's why I asked the question in my first post, and you're the only one that even acknowledged that people should look at yield as not being everything, and we should perhaps look at Total Return. Myself, I use a combination of the two.

I look at a darling of the yield proponents in BCE and see that its yield is 6.0%. Then I look at ATD.B and see its yield is 0.84%. The dividend people might just pass it by. Others might take the time to look at the total return between these two stocks and see that yield isn't everything. I wouldn't have to sell too many shares of ATD.B to come out ahead of BCE.











ltr


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Actually, I think he has both of those in his portfolio. He has different suggestions for accumulation and retirement.


I agree there are different things in the different portfolios, with some commonality. The difference is he sees a significant difference between accumulation and retirement as per his quote


> During the accumulation phase, dividend growth and total return is what drives my stock selection process and as such you will see very low yield stocks that I would normally not hold in my retirement years.


I don't subscribe to that change. My retirement portfolio of the past 15 years follows the same principles of dividend growth and total return as in accumulation and will continue to do so for as long as I am competent in managing it.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

For those looking for inspiration, this* April 1st* Edward Jones link offers their recommendations on a selection of Canadian and US stocks. Their Canadian recommendations include mostly dividend stocks. (*It's not a joke  *)



https://www.edwardjones.ca/sites/default/files/acquiadam/2021-04/stock-table-canada-newsletter.pdf


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> I look at a darling of the yield proponents in BCE and see that its yield is 6.0%. Then I look at ATD.B and see its yield is 0.84%. The dividend people might just pass it by. Others might take the time to look at the total return between these two stocks and see that yield isn't everything.


Well the thing is more risk more reward. I have similar results as ATD.B with PBH, both picked due to constant growing dividends.... but I only feel comfortable putting 5-7% in these....whereas I feel just fine having 20% in BCE.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Eder said:


> Well the thing is more risk more reward. I have similar results as ATD.B with PBH, both picked due to constant growing dividends.... but I only feel comfortable putting 5-7% in these....whereas I feel just fine having 20% in BCE.


Yeah, I guess I'm not making my point. There are many people who would own a fairly high risk dividend stock that paid 6 or 7 percent and wouldn't consider one that paid 1 percent even though there was a lot of room for growth.

ltr


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Eder said:


> Well the thing is more risk more reward. I have similar results as ATD.B with PBH, both picked due to constant growing dividends.... but I only feel comfortable putting 5-7% in these....whereas I feel just fine having 20% in BCE.


Agree. Could be a case like Aesop's Tortoise and the Hare. ATD have done well, but are having to rethink their business model as EVs start to take over. They may need restaurants instead of convenience stores? In Norway they are already addressing this: https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/circle-k-loves-norway-we-re-ready--805591037.html

Some of those low dividend companies are no doubt good companies. But they don't provide the steady cash flow us retirees need when markets turn down or even go flat for a while. I have a small amount invested in 1 or 2, but not much and that is in my registered accounts where cash flow is not so important.


----------



## OneSeat (Apr 15, 2020)

Towards the end of last year I was getting concerned about where growth stocks were heading so started thinking about some Hi-Div stocks. In early January I bought a selection of Canadian and US stocks derived from Div Aristos, Div All-Stars, recommendations from this forum and my own simplistic analysis. Bought about six in each market, each with about 5% or higher dividend, intending to hold them for "some time". By early March (that was only 2 months) I was so amazed by the stock price increases on all of them that I decided I did not know what I was doing and got out. The US stocks had appreciated by 40% or more, the Canadian ones by 12% or more. That is without considering the dividends which is what attracted me.

I'll have to withdraw more from my RRIFs next year!


----------



## OneSeat (Apr 15, 2020)

I no longer have a complete list but the ones I remember are XOM and PBCT in the US and MFC in Canada.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

Some great posts. For our scenario, we hope to live off the dividends from our registered and taxable accounts without drawing down on the principal. Given our situation, we are searching for companies whose dividends are average or above, sustainable and increase on a somewhat regular basis. Capital appreciation is secondary.

In addition to US and Global ETF's, small holding in MAW 104 and RBF 1350, our current holdings are: AQN, BNS, BCE, BMO, ZUT, CPX, CNQ, CM, CU, EMA, ENB, GWO, MFC, PPL, RUS, SLF, TRP, T, TD, and RY.

TFSA's are INO, ZRE, CRT.UN and DIR.UN

What would be some good additions? We are looking at ALA, PWO, and FTS as new holdings.

(Right or wrong, dividend investing is the path we are on. We have experienced some reasonable growth on top of the dividends)

Thx. Suggestions appreciated.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Gator - we have been doing something similar for 18 years. We do also have fixed income. I always tried to invest in securities with yields that would cover our withdrawal rate. Doing this, our portfolio has more than doubled. Easily beat balanced funds like mawer. Portfolio does need to grow to cover inflation, if you dont want to spend your capital ( we dont).

I have a lot of the same stocks. FTS, is a good addition. May not grow if interest rates increase, but will keep paying dividends. NA and EIT did well for us. i bought a lot of preferred cheap last year. Capital gains and high yields! Not much of interest on offer now, but you can get some perpetuals at or below par yielding about 5%. I use them as pseudo fixed income. We also have a number of foreign ADRs. They pay divs in US$ - useful for trips South.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> For example, CCL.B = 1.2%, DOL = 0.35%, MRU = 1.7%, SAP = 1.77%, ATD.B = 0.84%, CNR = 1.65%, CP = 0.82%.


I own some of these myself, though I'm not a 'dividend investor'. Here are 15 year annualized returns

12.0% - SAP
12.6% - MRU
13.0% - CNR
14.8% - CP
16.2% - ATD.B
18.1% - CCL.B

Compare to XIC at 6.1%


----------



## peterk (May 16, 2010)

One of the ways I've tricked myself into accepting that "dividends don't matter - Total return matters" (hard to accept for a young saver, I image 10 times harder for a retiree) is just a simple logical statement (which doesn't actually solve the problem, hence the "trick myself")

"If I invest for total return now - then I can buy *more* dividend stocks later"

Just play out a few simple maths of your own and see how if you get 10% total return from one investment vs. 4% gains and 4% dividends from another, then _later_ you can buy *25% more* of the exact same dividend stock and sigh a big relief at that point.

I doesn't really solve the problem, but you can then tell yourself the same thing over and over, until you realize that it's true for all time periods. "If I invest for total return until I'm *dead *- My _kids_ can buy *more* dividend stocks later!!"

It's unfortunate that the problem of "mild yield chasing" gets overshadowed by the arguments that companies need a sensible and robust cash distributing corporate policy (True) and focusing of extreme yield chasing being a problem (True).

The main problem that continues to fly under the radar is people actively comparing 2 investments, and putting HUGE consideration on this bank yielding 4% vs. this bank yielding 3%, or this index ETF yielding 3.1% and that one 2.9%, and that becomes the final deciding factor.

It's like:

<2% - No friggen way, man! Might as well put my money in a savings account.
2-3% - Hmm well I guess I'll consider it, but probably not - Maybe I'll just buy one of these stocks so I can say I'm not a yield chaser. "Index ETFs don't pay enough dividends" is in this range.
3-4% - I need enough of these bread and butter dividend stocks so that I don't feel like an "aggressive" dividend investor.
4-5% - What I really wish that all my 3-4% stocks were yielding (and what I prefer to buy).
5-6% - Ohh baby I sure am scamming the system now! Is everyone blind to this amazing investment?
6%+ - Woah buddy, calm down. I'm not a "yield chaser". I'll still buy a couple of these, but won't tell anybody.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

peterk said:


> One of the ways I've tricked myself into accepting that "dividends don't matter - Total return matters" (hard to accept for a young saver, I image 10 times harder for a retiree) is just a simple logical statement (which doesn't actually solve the problem, hence the "trick myself")
> 
> "If I invest for total return now - then I can buy *more* dividend stocks later"
> 
> Just play out a few simple maths of your own and see how if you get 10% total return from one investment vs. 4% gains and 4% dividends from another, then _later_ you can buy *25% more* of the exact same dividend stock and sigh a big relief at that point.


That's all well and good, except growth companies and dividend companies are different. 
In your example, one company put 100% of profit into reinvestment and growth, the other pays out some, and reinvests some.
The companies employ different management and capital allocation strategies.
Also they tend to be in different industries.
There is a reason that regulated utilities and Banks tend to pay dividends.

That being said, total risk adjusted return matters, not total return.
I think your example, the 4% growth & 4% dividend likely has a lower risk profile than the 10% gainer


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

@james4beach When I first started to DIY, I read and understood that total return is what matters especially in accumulation. I still opted for higher yield(often unsustainable) at the expense of no capital appreciation or limited dividend growth (ie income stocks). Over time I have shifted my analysis, to put greater emphasis on dividend growth and payout ratio.

The 15 yr return of the companies listed above is impressive. Sadly, I do not own a single one. Although the low yield on each was a deterrent in establishing a position, every time I looked at these names my evaluation determined they were two pricey or missed the opportunity to get these names when they want on sale because I had set my order limit to low. the reality is these names rarely go on sale and when they do it is ever so brief. 

I find it interesting that you opted to use XIC as a comparison. Although a valuable comparison, I believe dividend investors are not indexers and more likely stock pickers or dividend ETF owners. A more interesting comparison would be the total return of the 6 names to 6 mid yielding names (perhaps a couple banks and utilities) to high yielders (6%+ with no growth but didn't cut the dividend)

A quick search has (I am too lazy to do the calculations) provided the following links

High Dividend Growth vs High Yield - Which Are the Better Dividend Paying Stocks? (great-option-trading-strategies.com)
Dividend Growth Vs High Yield Investing – Dividend Power Week In Review - Dividend Power
Dividend Yield vs. Dividend Growth (maplemoney.com)

I think the returns of low yield high growth show that they should be included in every dividend investors portfolio. How much weighting they have in portfolio composition is subjective to the needs of the investor.


----------



## peterk (May 16, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> That's all well and good, except growth companies and dividend companies are different.
> In your example, one company put 100% of profit into reinvestment and growth, the other pays out some, and reinvests some.
> The companies employ different management and capital allocation strategies.
> Also they tend to be in different industries.
> ...


Good points but I guess that's the rub aint it? You never know where the risk adjusted return is going to come from. All predictions of that kind are just as valid or invalid as predicting the next market crash or currency fluctuations.

The notion that dividend stocks are "stable" and in a class that are generally not "growth" just reinforces investors ill-conceived thoughts that they _don't want_ growth stocks, and exclude them with prejudice.

Lower dividends and exposure to "risky" growth stocks are 2 main factors that might lead a retiree or dividend investing fan away from total market ETFs, and towards industry-focused mid to high yielding stocks only. Which by all accounts is the wrong decision for pursuing "risk adjusted total return".


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

A lot of theory here. How about real life comparisons from those actually in retirement? 

I posted a real life comparison (in another thread) of our own (mainly Canadian dividend & high yield FI) portfolio with MAW104 which is so often promoted here as a top performer. Over 18 years, I made a lot of mistakes but still beat the MAW balanced/diversified fund hands down using exactly same withdrawals. It's easy to pick a few growth stocks that have done well, but lets see a complete retirement portfolio. I certainly wouldn't do much different if starting over.

Total return is great, but how do you determine Total Return looking forward? Is there a formula for that?  I am sure many would have predicted great future Total Returns for companies like Nortel or even Loblaws. Go back and make a list of the ones that didn't do well, when cherry picking a few that did. You are taking a big risk building a retirement portfolio using that type of stock (or fund) in retirement.

For those who suggest owning low yield growth stocks or funds in retirement. Does it make any sense for an 80-something to have to manage selling off bits and pieces of stocks or funds to provide income? Sometimes at the worst possible time? Life is supposed to become more simple as we age. Dividends just show up in our accounts with no effort on our part. Later we may have to have someone manage the portfolio that produces those dividends. It doesn't change much.

OK - Back to your usual programming 

PS: I recently bought $5k each of MAW104 and XBAL in our RRIFs. I find I learn more by actually owning rather than doing theoretical studies


----------



## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

@agent99 totally agree with your post above. theory is theory and practice is practice. Most of us are aware (or should be) of this in our discussions. I would welcome others here to post real examples of their success and failures as you and many others do from time to time. I have learned a lot in my time on this forum because of the varying and intelligent commentary and debate that goes on. I am content with my results and hope that past mistakes are not repeated but are learning opportunities for me. I have said it here many times that there are many roads to wealth. Someone who has managed to plan, save, invest and maintain a comfortable retirement to the age of 80 does not need advice from anyone on this board. 

Investing is one tiny component to financial planning. Perhaps even less important than saving and investing in one's self. James did provide real examples from his own portfolio with the stocks listed as well as XIC. I have the majority of my retirement covered with an employer pension and my DIY is more for legacy, charity or moving up my retirement. I am hopeful that in retirement I do not have to sell any of my portfolio at an inopportune moment. Not sure if I have stated it in this thread but have elsewhere that my son's RESP is in VEQT and have instructed my wife to convert my portfolio to the same or similar (MAW104 would be suitable as well) should I go well before retirement age. After that its VBAL or equivalent. If I lose interest in investing I would likely set it and forget it. MAW 104 is a great product but can be beaten. That doesn't mean it will be beaten all the time by the same person. At the end of the day, for me it's about accumulating and managing enough to meet my goals.

As for your PS I 100% agree. I had a practice account for quite sometime before I took the plunge into DIY. Although it was useful and helpful in many ways, That knowledge was much different from real investing. That being said I think one will not succeed with out the other. Psychology is a huge part of investing and playing to our strengths while working on our weaknesses helps bring success. My thanks goes out to the OP for starting a thread that has stimulated all kinds of interesting conversation. I look forward to seeing what opportunities will arise from it. Cheers!


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I don't think there's such a wealth of stocks in Canada that I can be picky about whether the yield meets my criteria. I try and just pick the best stocks that meet the sector requirement that I have in place, and I don't fuss with the yield too much.

I have 24 stocks representing 8 sectors with three Canadian stocks per sector. I have all the stocks I mentioned in my first post on page 1 and a bunch of others to make up the 24 total. If you want to represent the sectors, it's tough to find high yield in quite a few of the sectors. I try for large cap if possible. 21 are large cap, 2 mid cap (8.8B, 9.2B) and 1 small cap (fairly close to mid cap at 1.7B).

My overall yield on market is 3.49%. 

ltr


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Over the years I've pared down to only investing in 5 sectors. Works for me.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

We started a position in FTS yesterday. I've updated where we're at.

Also adding to cash reserves.

Taxable Acct
Started positions in CU & GWO in late February.
Added to PPL in early March.
Added to TRP in early April.
Started a position in FTS in late April

TFSA
Started position in Dream Industrial REIT in late February.

Holdings Summary
In addition to US and Global ETF's, small holding in MAW 104 and RBF 1350, our current holdings are: AQN, BNS, BCE, BMO, CPX, CNQ, CM, CU, EMA, ENB, FTS, GWO, MFC, PPL, RUS, SLF, TRP, T, TD, RY and ZUT.

TFSA's are INO, ZRE, CRT.UN and DIR.UN


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm loving financials and Brookfields (BEP/BIP)
Just bought some BAM.


----------



## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

TFSA (x2) and RRSP (x2) maxed. 
Own a few of the "usual suspects" in Canada in both:




__





Dividends - My Own Advisor


Welcome to my Dividends page. Learn how I invest in dividend paying stocks to earn almost $30,000 per year in dividend income.




www.myownadvisor.ca





Looking to add the following this year: more AQN, REI.UN, BLK, CNR and some ATD.B. Not ruling our owning more WCN as well - the latter is recession proof.


----------



## Gator13 (Jan 5, 2020)

I want to start another new position in the next week or two. Can't decide whether to go with ALA or POW.


----------

