# Jim Flaherty Passes Away



## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Just hitting the newswires

_*Jim Flaherty, former finance minister, dead at 64*_


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Too young....bummer.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Just read that as well on G&M.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

I thought he did a great job. Too young and just left the politics. Condolences for family and friends.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Oh wow, I knew he was in ill health, I didn't realize how dire it was. RIP Mr. Flaherty.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

He had a skin condition, but reports say he died of a massive heart attack - not, I don't think, the illness that caused him to leave office.


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## liquidfinance (Jan 28, 2011)

RIP. Thoughts go out to the family.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

I admired many things he did over the years - from a purely selfish point of view his policies really helped my wife and I financially.

This is another reminder to myself why I want to fashion the life I want to live in my 40's, and not wait until traditional retirement age to do it - it can all be gone in an instant.


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## Islenska (May 4, 2011)

Seemed to be a real stand-up guy, true Canadian who did his job

Thank-you to Jim and very sorry to the family


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Very sorry to hear of this news. He was a good man who dedicated his life to the public service. Nice to see the generous comments coming in from people across the country.

Jon makes a good point. Be responsible, of course, but don't forget to live for yourself in the moment as well. Find that balance and live your life. It is fragile and short.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

I disagreed with much of his fiscal policy, even though I personally benefitted from a few measures. But I agree with TRM that Flaherty was a good man who dedicated his life to public service. RIP


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

he was on probably high doses of prednisone which does awful things to the body (and the mind) ... he struck as a good guy and this is sad news


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

His last major interview was with CBC's Amanda Lang.
They re-played parts of it this evening on the LOLX.
In retrospect, it was quite telling.
He was visibly emotional.
And he did look quite unwell.

Maybe I am being superstitious, but some of the things he said sounded like a premonition.
It is almost as if he knew somewhere deep down...
Although, by all accounts, he was preparing for a second career in the private sector.

A very sad occurrence indeed.
We need more like him.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

RIP. Agree with comments that he was a dedicated public servant who did his best for Canada. Another who has passed at too early an age and a lesson to all of us to live each day to its fullest.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Very sad to hear. He was a good man and a great public servant. One of the few politicians I truly respected. RIP.


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## martin15 (Feb 18, 2014)

Jon_Snow said:


> I admired many things he did over the years - from a purely selfish point of view his policies really helped my wife and I financially.
> 
> This is another reminder to myself why I want to fashion the life I want to live in my 40's, and not wait until traditional retirement age to do it - it can all be gone in an instant.


This is what I did, finished at 47. If I run out of money and die in the poorhouse in my 60's or 70's, so be it.
All males in my family seem to die before 65 anyway.


RIP Jim Flaherty, and thank you for your service to this country.
Condolences to the family.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

fatcat said:


> he was on probably high doses of prednisone which does *awful things* to the body (*and the mind) *... he struck as a good guy and this is sad news


What is your scientific proof that prednisone does awful things to the mind? I've been on it for 12 years now..and still typing this rebuke.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

GoldStone said:


> Very sad to hear. He was a good man and a great public servant. One of the few politicians I truly respected. RIP.


+1 I would think that he being in the position of finance minister during the "big R" in 2008 and after, with his economic policies helped to steer Canada through the financial morass that would have taken us down along with the US and others. 
Our dollar rode higher than the US for a few years afterwards, now it's back to what it was before the recession, but we emerged relatively unscathed with the Economic Action Plan,
even if some think it was more a publicity thing for the Conservatives.
Having two good men at the helm, Flaherty and Mark Carney (BoC) certainly helped to keep us afloat in those times.
According to local Ottawa CBC, he died of a fatal heart attack.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

carverman said:


> What is your scientific proof that prednisone does awful things to the mind? I've been on it for 12 years now..and still typing this rebuke.


What? It's a well known documented side affect - it's even listed as a side effect on the paperwork you receive (or should receive) from your pharmacist when you replenish your prescription. I was on it for a year and holy HELL never again. Weight gain, psychotic babbling (not over the top, but noticeable to those who knew me well) among other things.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Addy said:


> What? It's a well known documented side affect - it's even listed as a side effect on the paperwork you receive (or should receive) from your pharmacist when you replenish your prescription. I was on it for a year and holy HELL never again. Weight gain, psychotic babbling (not over the top, but noticeable to those who knew me well) among other things.


I don't read those papers from the pharmcists on side effects, its too depressing..oh oh! maybe that is how it affects the mind? :biggrin:

It is a chemical cortisteroid to calm down the immune system to stop inflammation,something that I need with my incurable medical condition.

One major side effect is osteoporisis..and that means the bones get porous and brittle as you get older. Calcium supplements and Vit D help alleviate this side effect to some degree..
but its still better than dealing with severe pain from inflammation. 

OTOH, it can also cause these side effects...
This being the most severe..


> Complete Stoppage of the Heart	Severe


http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-938...id=6007&drugname=prednisone+Oral&pagenumber=6


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

carverman said:


> Having two good men at the helm, Flaherty and Mark Carney (BoC) certainly helped to keep us afloat in those times...


Here is what Carney had to say about him:
Flaherty as financial steady hand


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> What is your *scientific proof* that prednisone does awful things to the mind? I've been on it for 12 years now..and still typing this rebuke.


Doctors in the field are saying that, not fatcat.

It would also depend on the condition being treated/the dosage/length & severity of illness/how the patient responds to treatment, other drug interactions, etc., etc. In some cases, one could have the disease for longer than thought, as the blisters could occur much later. With some, the disease subsides sooner, meaning a shorter treatment time, while others need to take treatment for years. 

When it comes to this type of infection, it can be stubborn to treat, and why stronger than desired dosages are needed, as the actual infection can lead to death [not the actual disease, not these days anyway]. Unfortunately the drugs to combat the disease can also lead to death in some cases.

Doctors say that some of the long-term physical side effects of steroid prednisone may include elevated bp; 'mental' side effects may include anxiety, etc. 

How successfully any drug may work on some [even the simple Tetracycline], does not make it true for all, even when dealing with identical diagnoses & treatments. *Every patient is different, and so are the side effects of treatments.*

A rare skin disease, 'Bullous Pemphigoid is a chronic, autoimmune, subepidermal, blistering skin disorder (unlike pemphigus where the blistering is intra-epidermal).' I imagine that even a mild case of the disease must be awfully painful.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

I was shocked to see the headline and it was the one posted here that I saw. I always liked Flaherty better then Harper and it was the same thing when Paul Martin and Jean Chretien were in office together, I liked Paul Martin much more. It just seemed like Flaherty cared more about the future of the economy and finances so it was sad to see him leave office and now he is gone as well.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

When I received the news alert yesterday, I thought that NO, it could not be true. I was so upset & stunned, and still in disbelief. Feel so sad for his family. 

On The Agenda last night, Mr. Eves called Mr. Flaherty the best finance minister ever. He wasn't just that, but also a truly proud & kind-hearted man.

Some past interviews:
http://theagenda.tvo.org/blog/agenda-blogs/jim-flaherty-1949-2014

"It has been an honour to serve Canada. Thank you for the opportunity." - THANK YOU Mr. Flaherty. RIP.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> On The Agenda last night, Mr. Eves called Mr. Flaherty the best finance minister ever. He wasn't just that, but also a truly proud & kind-hearted man.


Thanks for posting the video link Tgal. I agree with your sentiments, I no longer consider myself a conservative directly because I think their leader is an a-hole, but I always admired Mr. Flaherty. I didn't agree with many of his policies, but he seemed like a likeable personality with a good sense of humour.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Hard to find a genuine good man like Jim Flaherty, especially in politics - what a loss. RIP Mr. J. Flaherty, you'll be missed and remembered.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

carverman said:


> What is your scientific proof that prednisone does awful things to the mind? I've been on it for 12 years now..and still typing this rebuke.


well, i was on it for 10 days once and i felt like i had been sent to inhabit the surface of mars, it made me feel very strange and awful

everyone i have known who has been on prednisone has hated it

the side effects are well known

Increased blood sugar for diabetics
Difficulty controlling emotion
Difficulty in maintaining train of thought
Weight gain
Immunosuppression
Facial swelling. Severe.
Depression, mania, psychosis, or other psychiatric symptoms
Unusual fatigue or weakness
Mental confusion / indecisiveness
Memory and attention dysfunction (Steroid dementia syndrome)
Blurred vision
Abdominal pain
Peptic ulcer
Painful hips or shoulders
Steroid-induced osteoporosis
Stretch marks
Osteonecrosis
Insomnia
Severe joint pain
Cataracts or glaucoma
Anxiety
Black stool
Stomach pain or bloating
Severe swelling
Mouth sores or dry mouth
Avascular necrosis
Hepatic steatosis
Nervousness
Acne
Skin rash
Appetite gain
Hyperactivity
Increased thirst
Frequent urination
Diarrhea
Reduced intestinal flora
Leg pain/cramps
Sensitive teeth

not everyone does badly on prednisone, some ca tolerate it well and there are some who even like the mental effect, but most people really dislike prednisone

ps. i posted without reading all the above replies, let me add that for some people prednisone might be the only option doctors have, it can be a life-saver for some people but it is usually a case of trading one kind of suffering for another


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Garth Turner has an article on Mr. Flaherty on his blog.

http://www.greaterfool.ca/


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

sags said:


> Garth Turner has an article on Mr. Flaherty on his blog.
> "greaterfool.ca"


There is always somebody that can find negative things about something or somebody. 
Never got involved in income trusts..don't even know what they are all about, nor do I care at this point in my life..BUT at least with my TFSA, even if I'm limited to 
contributions of $5500 a year currently , (or last years withdrawals from the TFSA + $5500 in the next year) , I can still have ONE savings account protected
from the taxman grabbing at least 21% of the interest earned. Also people that have disabled children can set up a RDSP for them. 
So not everyone has been hard done by Mr. Flaherty.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Actually, it was Garth Turner who introduced the TFSA when he was Finance Minister, but it wasn't adopted as part of the budget.

Personally, I think it is a little early to judge Mr. Flaherty's lasting legacy........either positive or negative.

He did dedicate his life to the public service of others, and it is very sad that he passed on so young, and didn't have the opportunity to enjoy his retirement years.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Apparently there will be a state funeral for Jim Flaherty in Toronto on Wednesday. The CN tower was supposed to be lit green in his honour yesterday.(friday).
The last state funeral was for Jack Layton, leader of the opposition, who died in office. Flaherty had already resigned, so he was not an official cabinet minister
at the time of his death, which is a bit unusual to have a state funeral, but the decision is up to the Prime Minister and the family.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

He'd been out of office for barely 3 weeks.
IMHO, a state funeral is justified and well deserved.
I mean, come'n seriously, we are going to deny the 2nd longest serving Finance Minister in the history of our country a state funeral for a matter of 3 weeks?

As for Garth Turner's "tribute" on his blog - the less said the better.
I think the Late Jim Flaherty could have done without that glowing eulogy from the sorry excuse of a man that Turner is.
He refers to Flaherty as "F" in his blog...I mean, geez.

Garth Turner's "tribute" is a reflection on him rather than on Jim Flaherty.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Garth Turner could have been a bit more tactful I think. But considering how Harper and Flaherty screwed him over, not an unexpected response. The TFSA's was Garth's baby, and I will always be thankful to him for that.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> 1. Garth Turner could have been a bit more tactful *I think. *
> 2. But considering how Harper and Flaherty *screwed him over*....


*1.* You think?! 

*2.* This self-promoter got kicked out of the CP for no reason, right? He's very honest also it seems. *“Of course I’m upset. It’s always upsetting when you lose your family. Am I angry? No. Life’s too short.” * Yet he still sounds disgruntled IMHO; if not, then he's utterly graceless! 

I was either clueless or had totally forgotten that Turner had anything to do with the creation of the TFSA.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> Garth Turner could have been a bit more tactful I think. But considering how Harper and Flaherty screwed him over, not an unexpected response. The TFSA's was Garth's baby, and I will always be thankful to him for that.


ok, I will give credit where credit is due...but lets have respect for the dead in this thread..ok?


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> 1. Garth Turner's "tribute" is a reflection on him rather than on Jim Flaherty
> 2. He'd been out of office for barely 3 weeks. IMHO, a state funeral is justified and well deserved.


*1.* I had a low opinion of him before, but now........:rolleyes2:
*2.* +1. Though I don't think carverman meant that Mr. Flaherty did not deserve a state funeral.

'It has been the practice for the government of Canada to offer a state funeral to present and former governors general, present and former prime ministers and sitting members of the ministry.' 

That latter list is short indeed. As well, it's been 85 years since a state funeral took place for a finance minister, but Mr. Flaherty was the longest serving in such a key post. But for this, and many other reasons, he certainly deserves such an honour.

And IMHO, no, it's not 'early to judge Mr. Flaherty's lasting legacy..'.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story_print.html?id=9729837


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> ok, I will give credit where credit is due...but lets have respect for the dead in this thread..ok?


At least JS did not post Turner's article.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> Garth Turner's "tribute" is a reflection on him rather than on Jim Flaherty.


Yes, this is my opinion as well. I seriously doubt that Garth Turner will be recognized for his accomplishments while in the CP and his comments (link above) are just sour grapes.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> *1.
> Though I don't think carverman meant that Mr. Flaherty did not deserve a state funeral.
> 
> 'It has been the practice for the government of Canada to offer a state funeral to present and former governors general, present and former prime ministers and sitting members of the ministry. In addition, any eminent Canadian may be offered a state funeral at the discretion of the prime minister.'
> ...


*

No, I never said that Mr. Flaherty didn't deserve a state funeral in recognition of his contributions to Canada as finance minister..I just thought it was unusual , since he was not a head of state (PM or GG), but the PM can make that decision in certain circumstances. 
Beside Jack Laytons state funeral, there was one for a former GG (Romeo Leblanc), but in recent years, no other minister, in office or out of office, AFAIK.*


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> Beside Jack Laytons state funeral, there was one for a *former GG (Romeo Leblanc)...*..


Yes, back in 2009.

Btw, by 'latter list', I meant that of ministers [I highlighted incorrect section, but have since edited it]. Here it is, from the posted link:

*State Funerals - Ministers*

1930 – The Honourable J.A. Robb
1931 – The Right Honourable Sir George E. Foster
1938 – The Right Honourable Sir George Perley
1941 – The Right Honourable Ernest Lapointe
1942 – The Right Honourable Raoul Dandurand
1950 – The Honourable Humphrey Mitchell
1955 – The Honourable Alcide Côté
1959 – The Honourable Sidney Smith
1964 – The Honourable John R. Garland
1980 – The Honourable Daniel J. MacDonald


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It kind of bothers me how we deify people once they die. People suddenly ignored all of Layton's flaws once he passed away, and now again with Flaherty ("best human who ever lived!"). I think Flaherty will go down as a Finance Minister of note, along with Martin. He has said some crazy things in his time. I suspect Harper owes Flaherty a debt in keeping his government in power as long as he has, in a government where most ministers are stuffed shirts who can't be trusted to speak publicly.

I think we dishonor the dead when we pretend they were a different person entirely. He was Jim Flaherty the man, not Jim Flaherty the saint.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

^ You're entitled to disagree with comments made here, but not to call people pretenders.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I think I'm entitled to call them that, too. We all are, at turns.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Toronto.gal said:


> Yes, back in 2009.
> 
> Btw, by 'latter list', I meant that of ministers [I highlighted incorrect section, but have since edited it]. Here it is, from the posted link:


I did mention "recent" years, since 1980. That last one was 34 years ago. Daniel J. Macdonald was a WWII vet and amputee.


> He died in office on September 30, 1980 and was given a state funeral. The eulogy was given by Prime Minister Trudeau


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

carverman said:


> 1. I did mention *"recent" *years, since 1980. That last one was 34 years ago.
> 2. Daniel J. Macdonald was a WWII vet and amputee.


*1.* Yes, I understood what you said. But in comparison to Mr. Flaherty, I was referring to ministers, not GGs, and why I mentioned the 85 years [actually 84], since a finance minister has had a state funeral.
http://pch.gc.ca/eng/1395686546870?CFID=34288611&CFTOKEN=18158424

*2.* And more info. here:
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/second-world-war/macdonald


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Flaherty got off to a bad start with the income trust fiasco. But I think he has rehabilitated his image with all his actions since then. Plus I think we have been robbed of a senior statesman retired and working in the private sector. RIP Jim!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

"T" is clearly disgruntled for having been kicked out of the CP caucus.
However, that was his fault more than anyone else's.
Let's keep in mind that at that time, the Harper administration had a slim minority govt.
"T" was a loose cannon, to say the least.

A leader - any leader - political, business, etc. cannot afford to have such loose cannons in his/her team.

Further evidence of this fact is that not only did "T" get kicked out of the CP caucus, he subsequently got kicked out of two other parties in quick succession, incl. the nascent Green Party.

This thread is about Jim Flaherty, so I'll leave "T" at this.

For the record, I agree with Flaherty's move on income trusts.
I realize he was hated for it.
It affected retirees that were leveraging income trusts for their retirement income.
It hit non pensioned retirees particularly hard (a group that is close to my heart).
I understand that.

However, the income trust tax laws were being abused by corporations.
I think the final nail in the coffin came a few days prior to Flaherty's announcement when BCE said it would convert to an income trust as well.
There were also rumors that the Big 5 Banks were mulling conversion to income trusts as well.

I don't think Flaherty had a choice but to squash income trusts.
It was a classic case of too much of a good thing.


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> For the record, I agree with Flaherty's move on income trusts.
> I realize he was hated for it.
> 
> However, the income trust tax laws were being abused by corporations.
> ...


 And that was the fly in the ointment as they say. Once corporations saw that they could offset a large part of the corporate taxes, they were eager to jump on the
income trust bandwagon leaving the working Canadians to carry the tax brunt. That was clearly unfair to working Canadians, never mind the fact that if the income trust
thing took off, there would be less revenue coming into the tax coffers..and that could carry consequences further down the line. After all it was to do with greed and corporate profits.



> On September 8, 2005, the Canadian Department of Finance issued a white paper[10] suggesting that the trusts had cost it at least C$300 million in tax losses the preceding year, with provincial governments possibly losing another $300 million. The markets barely reacted and on September 13, Gordon Nixon, CEO of the Royal Bank of Canada, mentioned in passing that he was not opposed to Canada's largest bank converting into a trust. One week later on September 19, the Department of Finance announced that it was suspending advance tax rulings – essential for investor confidence – on future trusts.[11]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If Bell/Telus pay no corporate taxes as corporations, what change by converting to an income trust would all of a sudden cause them to voluntarily pay out 2.6 to 3.17 billion in
corporate taxes? Share value going up as everyone starts biuying up shares to collect fat dividend payouts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

don't you think, though, that there seems to be an undefined time frame within which we are to properly & respectfully mourn the dead, with never a whisper that is less than reverential.

but then this hushed period is always followed by the time when history can joyfully fall upon a departed personnage with razors, knives, footnotes, mud-pies, scarlet links & scuttlebutt.

how long is the unspoken time frame of official mourning? longer for national heroes/villains like pierre trudeau? six months? a year? shorter for plain ministers of finance like jim flaherty? a month? three months?

"T's" homily was more an issue of coarse, crude, boorish timing imho. Two years from now "T" could probably write such a message & find level-headed supporters. But to publish it now, when people are feeling they have painfully lost a good neighbour, a dear cousin, a co-worker, is offensive.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Turner's blog post was quite mild compared to the utter garbage that Thomas Walcom published in the Star.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Turner had a burning dislike for Flaherty. I suppose it is more honest of him not to have changed his assessment of the man merely because he died.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

^^ Why compare 'T' to any other writer? To partially defend him or what? 

'T' lacks etiquette & is incapable of writing a balanced commentary. He saw himself as a victim, pure & simple; when in fact, he was/is anything but.

IMO, there can be private as well as public death etiquette. There are exceptions of course, as in the death of certain controversial political figures, but this thread is not about those not deserving honour & respect.

As well, nobody on this forum has called Mr. Flaherty a saint/falsely glorified him/nor given distorted history of any sort, so calling any of us pretenders was the only thing that is false. 

Good article IMO - John Ivison: *Why Jim Flaherty will go down in history as one of Canada’s best finance ministers*
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...ory-as-one-of-canadas-best-finance-ministers/


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

What was wrong with the Walkom piece? He merely disagreed with Flahertys politics, despite acknowledging that he was a good person. Is it only acceptable to remember someone by expressing fawning praise?


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Mr. Flaherty's accomplishments will be judged in the fullness of time. Talk of a legacy is premature at this point.

I am sorry that Mr. Flaherty never had the time to write his autobiography. It certainly would be interesting reading.

As to Garth Turner's blog........Mr. Flaherty was known to read the blog and drop in some comments from time to time.

It appeared as though he somewhat enjoyed the prodding and poking at each other.

Some people who knew him well..........have said that Mr. Flaherty enjoyed engaging in some lively debates from time to time.

Thanks to Mr. Flaherty for his successes, and his contribution to the public service.

His legacy, I think will be easier to judge in the future.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I find it hard to believe the Fin Min would waste time on Garth's blog. At least, I hope he didn't.


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