# Investing vs Business vs Career



## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

I have done all three of these and have the advantage of looking back now I am in my 40s.

Education is expensive and take a long time and doesn't really pay off until you have worked for 5-10 years. All the time you are paying 40% taxes. And the entry to your own business is so hard these days that its only for the most hard headed. 

I think a person would be better to off to take whatever education money that is set aside for them and plow it into the market, contribute regularly and then work a cheesy no stress jobs for 25 years. You could have a million in investments in that time. I know lots of people with good careers who will never get there and people with businesses that flame out within 5 years.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Well, I know plenty of "investors" who've lost everything as well...so I wouldn't say it's that cut and dry.

I think many people are born to be employees and can never be anything else, nor do they want to be.

Your personality will determine the way you choose make money, your ability will determine if that is actually an option.

Personally, I was successful in business and investing, and I'd recommend finding passive income wherever I could, but I also realize that it's not the path for everyone.


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## Taraz (Nov 24, 2013)

You're assuming that everyone has education money set aside for them. That's the case for my kid, but I know lots of people who aren't saving for their little ones' educations at all. You get* $500 FREE* in Alberta for just opening an RESP account, and many haven't even done that. 

*Note:* I've tried to explain to them that it's a good idea to max out the RESP even if you don't think your kid will go to post-secondary, because the government is basically giving you an interest-free investment loan. 

Obviously, some investing (index funds at the very least) is essential if you ever want to be wealthy.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

To be fair, the way most people start a business is equivalent to opening the G&M and putting all your money into the first stock you see. With proper preparation, or at least experience from successive mistakes, the probabilities and rewards go up very fast. At lot faster than raises at a job or even good investments. A good low-risk business that provides enough income to invest can give you all the usual stuff plus a lot more control over your life than the average person has.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Unless you have a real powerful calling your best bet is to get a government job. Security, best working conditions and fringe benefits and a nice pension at the end with no chance of ever being fired or losing your pension.

If you want to invest on the side you can but you will wind up ok even if you blow every cent you make.


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## SkyFall (Jun 19, 2012)

I always thought that it is nearly impossible to get super wealthy by working for someone, what I meant is that if you want not to make high six figures or seven figures salary in a corporation you will have to work your *** off and be there for years to even get there.... doctors, engineer, laywers, etc will make very good living but they aren't the top richest.... that's why I'm always thinking how imma get to the top 1% hahahahah


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

tygrus said:


> Education is expensive and take a long time and doesn't really pay off until you have worked for 5-10 years.


There are some jobs where a university diploma in that related field is a requirement to get a job interview.



> I think a person would be better to off to take whatever education money that is set aside for them and plow it into the market, contribute regularly and then work a cheesy no stress jobs for 25 years.


All sorts of people out there. I know many that have gotten further not doing what you have described and are a lot happier because of it.


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## 2tire2work (Jul 20, 2013)

Done with the career thing 5 years ago. Started business since then. And now trying the investing path now. Spend about 9 years trying to climb the ladder. IMO gorvernment job is the best bet for people like us who are smart with money. 
I gave up a lot of free time just to make the business work. Hardly spend enough time with the kids. No summer vacation. 
Just made the commitment to slow down this year. I grew up poor so making money was a big drive. I think people growing up with wealthy parents don't have the drive to make money early in their lives.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

There are a fair number of people who have no desire to climb any ladder,they work yes, but the end goal has nothing to do with money.
They live with debt,few monies saved ect
They make a median wage(45k single,maybe 80k as a couple)and spend it all each and every year.
A lot of people don't want to save 10/15/20 % a year for the future,they live one day at a time(sometimes i envy these people,lol)
i have a few friends like that,i am sure we all do
interests are not $
I sometimes feel at the core of a investor is a fear of the future or unknown(some people are not like that,majority perhaps)


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## Zeeshanbmerchant (Jan 4, 2014)

Actually a lot of people feel that money at the end of your life is not very useful. I have always felt, and i often offend people, that i dont care about retirement or having money then. It always offends people, but i always say, whats the point. I am not going to mention the obvious reason, 

Business is extremely rewarding because its you taking control of your life. Its much more rewarding to work for yourself, and make your own way. Employment is alright too, however its more of a take it easy kind of path. You choose a career, and settle in day to day.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

donald said:


> I sometimes feel at the core of a investor is a fear of the future or unknown(some people are not like that,majority perhaps)


That resonates with me somewhat. Although, if you said that the core of an investor is greed... well, that also seems to ring true to me too...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I hear what your saying zees.
This is something i am really thinking about.
Something that is seldom talked about is the utility of money.
I have a good chuck invested(all together give or take about half/mill,spread between vacant land/stocks/business acct)with healthy cash flow in my busy season.
All though it is nice to look at a good stock portfolio,sometimes i think:So,the whole point of this is to watch this grow,keep it intact,re-invest the dividends and distributions,weather the gyrations and hit the mid life point and than instead of the accumulation phase move immediately into preservation and reducing tax.

It's like ironically you might spend your life carrying a sack of money around but it never had utility
but than,what's the alternative-it's a quagmire
sometimes it's like this never ending game(and it's a hard one at that,saving/investing/earning ect)
what i might have is saving fatigue,lets all admit it year after year it can get exhausting.
none of the david bach's ect every write about that!and although it is exciting it can be boring
You got to hit the real pay dirt perhaps i dunno


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

its like one is slew footed throughout the entire accumulation/maturation of a portfolio.
feels like this challenging video game and your on a quest to pass each level(levels get harder)maybe the coveted million liquid is saving the ''queen'' and this game takes years......what the hell happens if you do catch the queen?
do you re-set the game and play for the 2nd million?(maybe it is too familiar now?not half as fun,but is the 1st million fun or was it done out of a feeling of necessity)
and than maybe your in your 50's and you look back and wonder,did that makes sense,did i get this right?wait a second i am still middle class!that's what makes me wonder!


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Everybody talks about the opportunity cost to saving and investing for tomorrow vs spending today, but not many talk about the opportunity cost of time. Your net worth may rise and fall, but the clock only ticks forward, never backwards.

Even if your tastes don't run towards material possessions, expensive hobbies or lavish excursions around the world, the pursuit of money may rob you of other things, like time away from loved ones, time to devote to other passions that you may not be able to do when time itself takes its toll on your ability to do these things.

I know, I know. I'm on the wrong message board.

www.CanadianEnjoyYourLifeForum.com is down the hall and to my left...


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

are you agreeing lightcycle or saying to balance out happiness with saving money?
If one starts with not much I do believe it is harder.
I don't have the benefit of age and looking back(maybe generally everybody can agree the 30's/40's seems the hardest to balance everything out?)
Maybe that is generally why people find a peace/happiness more so as they age?
I remember reading Charlie munger(how to build wealth)and he said:get the 1st 100k liquid and than it can finally start really kicking in,think it was a university speech he gave or something(I am in my 30's,so I am not that ''young'' anymore)but I think,O.K Charlie(if I could talk to him)ive done that now,now what?
maybe it is like a rutterless ship-100k is a nice goal(liquid,takes effort but can be achieved,1 million on the other hand not so much!What are you suppose to do between 100k and 1 million(hard to move the needle in between the 2)


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Why are you trying to save all this money? What are you going to do once you have it?

More importantly, can you do what you want without $1MM? or $2MM?

If so, why don't you do it now instead of waiting till you reach some magic number to enjoy the fruits of your labour?

I guess my point is that it seems like some people put up these arbitrary hurdles to delay their own gratification: "Oh, I'll work till I have $xxxx", "I'm going to save $xxxx then I'll enjoy life". They've done the in-depth-life-expectancy-cost-analysis and that's the number they've come up with, but at what cost? Your youth, your relationships, your physical and mental health, etc.

I think you can find a balance if you ask yourself the right questions. Starting with, "Am I really happy right now?" and, "Am I really going to be happy when I have $xxx?"


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I dunno,that's what i am starting to realize.
I'm living in a apartment(below my means)money is at the fore-front constantly with me(think because i did not go to ''uni'')
I think i have this ''class'' inferior(i did horrible in school,didn't really finish,unless you call work experience for credits count)
I had a lot of teacher in the school system growing up branding me that i wouldn't amount to anything(this is not a pity post!!)
started a construction company mid 20's(small but profitable)to be honest out of lack of options.
I sit here at 34 with about half a million liquid net worth and i am not happy.
Maybe i got to leave the online financial blogging community.
I compare and contrast with other's(bloggers that blog about their $)
could be too much toronto centric media.(easy to feel like **** when you read crap in the globe saying you need 5 million ect,feeds into both my competitive nature and my fear)
but the damn thing is if i started spending money i prob would not be happy!lol
I got to start re-evaluating,every since i started reading financial blogs
maybe like a skinny girl look at the tabloids thinking she is fat(but she is not)
I also self learned to build my portf(and that at times tests one because i took a few 100k and built it from scratch)which is great but than i think what the hell am i doing(should just buy index funds)i dunno lightcycle.
investing solo is also a lonely activity in it's own right(no team,such a solo activity and there is a lot on the line)


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## Sammi (Nov 12, 2013)

Im trying to find a balance in life that make me happy and less stress. 

Early on in my life I decided to not pursue something I enjoyed and went with something that felt more natural to me "pesonality-wise". I ended up doing really well in university and now work for the government (which I always knew was an easy path in life since my mom and my 2 aunts and many of my family members worked for the government) making a great salary etc. This allows me a lot of free time and less stress. 

My partner had a busy working life, stressful and worked many hours and have now quit the industry and went back to school to change industries and career for a more balanced career. And I fully support that. We'd rather him make less (he was making a lot before) and have a more balanced approach in life.

We don't plan on having kids but am accumulating wealth quickly even on 1 income because we are frugal. We don't deprive ourselves of things we love, we just find ways to pay less.

Hopefully that continues.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

donald said:


> I remember reading Charlie munger(how to build wealth)and he said:get the 1st 100k liquid and than it can finally start really kicking in,think it was a university speech he gave or something(I am in my 30's,so I am not that ''young'' anymore)but I think,O.K Charlie(if I could talk to him)ive done that now,now what?


I guessed something pretty similar. If you get 100k invested when you're young then you could just forget about it completely and one day you'll wake up with 1m. At that point it just takes time even if you don't make an additional effort. The debate would be a lot different if you could be investing for 40 years before you were 20 years old  Since time is the biggest advantage that most people have their choices will affect them in several decades, not next year. 

When I see an opportunity to do a little work today and save myself from having to do 10x as much work later it's hard to pass that up. It doesn't mean I'll be rich tomorrow but every time I take that deal it makes things a little better. Some people spend a lot of time remodeling their kitchen to get a slightly more pleasing style, searching for new cars to spend time in on the way to a job they don't like, or buying lottery tickets when they know they are throwing away their hard-earned money. None of those is an objective and lasting gain in their relationships, health, and satisfaction. I just like to do something that will either save me a lot of work or give me much better options at some point since I can use that to do things that really matter.

I don't have a specific goal but I know that with reasonable expenses and withdrawal rates I don't need $1m. I also know that I have more freedom now than I did 5 years ago because things that would be a disaster then are a minor speed bump now. I'm already taking advantage of that and plan to keep going in that direction. Since I want to work anyways I might as well have something to show for it and I enjoy the process as well. Some people do it just because they can and then find ways to give it away later. Knowing that you accomplished something really unusual and helped a lot of people at the same time is a good deal.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

donald said:


> Maybe i got to leave the online financial blogging community.
> I compare and contrast with other's(bloggers that blog about their $)[...]
> maybe like a skinny girl look at the tabloids thinking she is fat(but she is not)


I think there's a lot of truth in this statement, at least for me.

When I first joined this forum and other finance message boards, I was struck by how similar the zealotry was to online fitness boards. But instead of "Eat less/better! Work out more!", here you have, "Spend less! Invest!" If you admit that you like to eat chocolate cake very often or skip a workout or five, be prepared for the online "fat-shaming". Same on these types of boards, but here it's "conspicuous-consumption-shaming".

It seems to me that self-worth is too closely aligned to net worth.

I know there are some people that are truly happy in doing the right thing well. They always monitor their intake, never skip a workout, always save down to the last penny, etc. The Internet allows these birds of a feather to flock together very easily and they preen and crow about their dedication and accomplishments, while self-congratulating each other. But not everyone carries the same zeal. I like logging in to fitness boards to check up on interesting exercises, good recipes, but I love chocolate cake and I love being lazy as well and I don't feel any shame about it.

I'm on CMF and other PF blogs to get ideas on how to make money, but for me, that money is there for a reason - to save part of it, but also to spend part of it as well. That makes *ME* happy.



donald said:


> I sit here at 34 with about half a million liquid net worth and i am not happy.


I think you're doing quite well financially. Now go eat some chocolate cake, metaphorically-speaking!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Geez Donald...........

You are successful already. You are the guy who should have failed........according to conventional wisdom.

But instead of failing, you established a business and put away more money than most people dream of having.

My advice...........take some time to enjoy what you have already accomplished.


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## SuperGrover (Oct 24, 2011)

The discussion on whether university is worth it always drives me mental. I have a uni degree, but I also know many others who make far more than myself in a no degree job. Most do require a ticket of some sort. There is not one path to success, but many. And a path that works for one person may send another to ruin. I think the biggest problem is people start down a path (getting a basket weaving degree, slow or saturated industry) thinking that it is a guarantee'd ticket to sucess. 

Lightcycle, where I am, it is a true trade for time vs money. Shift is 12 hrs, 6 days on, 1 off with minimal trips home during the project. It really makes you evaluate whether it is worth it or not. In my case it is (one or two years max, only during winter), but there are guys here who get addicted to the money and end up working in the field for 30 years, divorced at least once sometimes twice. I find it a bit sad. One guy I talked to today worked 334 days (all 12-18 hr days) last year, thats not for me. He will retire early with a boat load of cash but will have given up his 20s and 30s.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

lightcycle said:


> I guess my point is that it seems like some people put up these arbitrary hurdles to delay their own gratification


Delayed gratification has always been considered a virtue, and the mindset of the wise and successful. I think it's only recently that such people have been branded as "suckers" who are "suffering unnecessarily".



donald said:


> I'm living in a apartment(below my means)
> ...
> I sit here at 34 with about half a million liquid net worth and i am not happy.
> ...
> ...


Delayed gratification is hard, that's why most people don't do it.

Hanging out with people who are poor and spend their money will make you want to spend because you are "richer" and can afford it.
Hanging out with people who are rich and spend their money will make you want to spend because you are "poorer" and want to fit in.

Hanging out with people who are well off and don't spend their money will make you want to be one of them. Find those people. I think a financial forum is an excellent place to start.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

peterk said:


> Delayed gratification has always been considered a virtue, and the mindset of the wise and successful. I think it's only recently that such people have been branded as "suckers" who are "suffering unnecessarily".


I never said delayed gratification was a bad thing, but there's got to be a balance.

Everyone understands the time value of money, given compounding and inflation, your money will look very different 40 years from now than it does now.

But what about the time value of time itself, and more specifically youth and health? I see people squander it today on the gamble they can afford to buy it back many years from now.

It's all about balance.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

All about balance for us.

We have debt. We save. We have investments. We spend our money. 

I suppose I could live uber-frugal and be retired. Not sure that would make me happy. 
I suppose I could spend more, travel more, save less. Not sure that would make me happy.

Delaying gratification is fine to a degree but making yourself unhappy in the process is hardly worth it. Just me


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## 2tire2work (Jul 20, 2013)

I wanted to have 250 k by 30. I did
I wanted to have 1/2 mil by 35. I did. 
I wasted all my time trying to achieve financial goals. But I can't buy back 10 years of my youth with a million dollars. 
Right now I just want to concentrate on balancing life. Vacation time with family spend more time with the kids while they are still young 
I worked so much during the last decade I lost all my hobbies.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

lightcycle said:


> But what about the time value of time itself, and more specifically youth and health? I see people squander it today on the gamble they can afford to buy it back many years from now.


That's where diet and exercise come in, but I guess we're on the wrong forum for that 

It appears that some people feel like they were happier in their childhood than they are now, so they see every moment as their last chance to live before it's all taken away from them. I look back and see all the things I couldn't do when I was younger that I can now. That makes aging look a lot better. If you can't stop it, take advantage of it. As Scott Adams says, when something unwanted happens to him he won't let it go before he beats the crap out of it, leaves it bleeding in a dark alley, and steals its wallet.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

It's not necessarily like that peter k for me(hanging out with people who are ect)
My closest friends are all married and all have kid(s)
I get out with them but not like before(obviously everybody is knee deep in the thick of it-I find the last few years actually quite drastic regarding my social life and this is where maybe I am failing in the balance part.
Like I am morphing into a loner almost(this was never me)So easy to just get in a rut,i have opportunities to go and get social but than I think ah I don't want to.(and than the cost analysis to confirm I will just stay home(any given week/a number of day)
Maybe it's a quarter life crisis.
I've never had a problem with anybody influencing me,i am pretty head strong and naturally do my own thing.
what I mean about the blogging is on any given day I will something new and it will be a new thing to think about worry about.
Most posts/blogs are pretty depressing!most of the topics that are covered lean to a negative curve on various subjects,and everybody piles in and its a big depressed feast(look around at some of the topic that are covered in cmf-bank failures/wealth gap and unfair/unions/doom of the market ect ect
You have to admit peter not that many uplifting subjects(highly informative!)
Sometimes you will even see someone taking about so success and people will rip on them or debunk it(I was reading frugals blog about a young lawyer and quite a few of the peanut gallery was critiquing this or that)pf crowd can be tough/cold.....maybe it me?i don't always leave inspired!though obviously I love learning about money,you get the good!Ive learned a **** ton just reading cmf everyday(blogs)sort of a interactive university money degree.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

richard said:


> That's where diet and exercise come in, but I guess we're on the wrong forum for that


Don't make me start a thread about chocolate cake. I'll do it! I'm not afraid!



richard said:


> It appears that some people feel like they were happier in their childhood than they are now, so they see every moment as their last chance to live before it's all taken away from them. I look back and see all the things I couldn't do when I was younger that I can now. That makes aging look a lot better.


As I mentioned before, I truly believe some people are very, very happy just accumulating. I believe they find a home and a community on forums like these. But for others with other goals besides just saving for a rainy afterlife, they may look at this community as if it represents the median. It's not. It's a very skewed representation with very specific goals that don't necessarily represent everyone's needs for happiness in finding their own balance.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

lightcycle said:


> As I mentioned before, I truly believe some people are very, very happy just accumulating. I believe they find a home and a community on forums like these. But for others with other goals besides just saving for a rainy afterlife, they may look at this community as if it represents the median. It's not. It's a very skewed representation with very specific goals that don't necessarily represent everyone's needs for happiness in finding their own balance.


It's definitely not. I don't think everyone was planning business strategies at 10 years old like I did  If they look at that and decide that it's not worth taking any steps to improve their future then they are only hurting themselves. The reason that people here talk about much more complex approaches is that they've already done the simple and easy things that have a big payoff with virtually no cost. Those are what everyone should learn about.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

richard said:


> If they look at that and decide that it's not worth taking any steps to improve their future then they are only hurting themselves.


"Hurt" being a very subjective term. Some people "hurt" when all they do is live for the future at the expense of the present.



richard said:


> The reason that people here talk about much more complex approaches is that they've already done the simple and easy things that have a big payoff with virtually no cost. Those are what everyone should learn about.


I understand what you are saying, and this is the reason why I like CMF. There are a lot of great ideas and good opinions from people who have a lot more experience in these matters. The learning is key for me. There's no dispute about doing things that cost very little to make your situation better. The heart of the debate are the things that do carry a cost today (not even financially, but in time, and mental and physical energy) and what benefits it will bring long-term.

Everyone has to decide what level of sacrifice they want to make today. For some it's an all-in assault, others want a more balanced approach. 

You do what's right for you. But when the most vocal voices on this forum start in on the "fat-shaming", it's easy to start to doubt what is right for you.


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

I got the uni degree, needed to become a professional engineer, and after requisite work expereince got the professional ticket. So for me the money on uni was worth it. 

I have been at professional career for 25 years now; and am getting a bit stale on it, even with having rights to a management bonus pool of funds as an inducement to keep my nose to the grind stone.
A few years ago I got my professional project managers ticket too, but the rush of that pursuit is now fading.

I do have the luxury of working about 7:30 to 5 m-f most years. I have had a number of modestly inexpensive hobbies to pull my mind off of work in the evenings and weekend. Have had the good fortune to have a great long term soul mate. That and the ensuing family makes the grind oh so much more tolerable.

I am between writing propsals at the moment, and a few other road construction projects I have are in limbo with the present GTA winter, and most relevantly, cold crunch. 

So I took the time to run numbers of asset growth and personal rate of return by extracting numbers from long time Quicken records and annotate them with life events we have seen in the last ten years.

The pattern that emerges is that we have never saved at a rate of less than 20% of annual gross income even when mom was home with the young kids. Now that our mortgage has been paid for a few years off we are up to saving more like 40%+ of our gross every year. 

I don't think I would have necessarily been able to get that kind of cash savings going if I was running a business. A business has a good chance of selling for more that I might have grown from my and her career savings, but that would depend on finding thr right buyer from what would still, despite our likely best efforts, would have likely been a small business, dependant on finding the right buyer. That scenario is not too liquid to me.

I know trying to grow a business that I would likely not have had the time to be with my kids to the extent that I did working a regular day job.


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## OurBigFatWallet (Jan 20, 2014)

I think a balance of both is best. If you're not ready or willing to start your own business but curious about it you could always start a small business on the side and grow it over time. I agree though in that not everyone who has a solid education uses it. I know people with education degrees that work as waiters. Not sure why they would do that but personal decision I suppose. They would've been better off spending their tuition money on growth equities


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Starting and running a successful business is pretty rewarding but its a LOT of work and it takes a force of will to make it happen. Sometimes I think just investing in someone else's company is the easier and wiser way to go.


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## ashin1 (Mar 22, 2014)

It depends, honestly IMO

if you are young(early 20s) make the sacrifice now! 
the whole reason you start young is because you will have more time to enjoy the fruits of your labor at an earlier age.
also being smart with money doesn't mean you can have fun with it!
but end of the day you need to do what makes you happy!
save or spend, keep on keepin on. but this is a money forum FYI LOL


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

donald said:


> It's not necessarily like that peter k for me(hanging out with people who are ect)
> My closest friends are all married and all have kid(s)
> I get out with them but not like before(obviously everybody is knee deep in the thick of it-I find the last few years actually quite drastic regarding my social life and this is where maybe I am failing in the balance part.
> Like I am morphing into a loner almost(this was never me)So easy to just get in a rut,i have opportunities to go and get social but than I think ah I don't want to.(and than the cost analysis to confirm I will just stay home(any given week/a number of day)
> ...


You need to come travel with me.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

sags said:


> Geez Donald...........
> You are successful already. You are the guy who should have failed........according to conventional wisdom...


I've never been able to understand or follow what leads to statement such as "not having a degree means one should have failed".

A university degree was typically described to me as opening doors and in the minds of some, incorrectly seen as "a guarantee" of employment.
I don't see how this has any implication for what an individual is able to accomplish.

It only takes a bit of looking around to see that there are many ways of learning what is needed to accomplish what one wants.




sags said:


> ... My advice...........take some time to enjoy what you have already accomplished.


Based on the post, I think it needs to be more than this as there seems to be a focus problem.



> I sit here at 34 with about half a million liquid net worth and i am not happy.
> Maybe i got to leave the online financial blogging community.
> I compare and contrast with other's(bloggers that blog about their $)


If one has enough for what one wants - why compare and does it matter what other's have or say?


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

OurBigFatWallet said:


> ... I know people with education degrees that work as waiters. Not sure why they would do that but personal decision I suppose.
> 
> They would've been better off spending their tuition money on growth equities


In the case of a friend of the family - it boiled down to sticking like glue to unrealistic expectations. He felt that as he finished in the top of his class, it wasn't worth his while to start any lower than a specific spot in a company. His contemporaries who factored in the economy, started at lower position and worked their way up have been working at or above his starting position for years.

He on the other hand, is still working sporadically going on thirty years later. He's dabbled at starting his own business but so far has proved he is not an entrepreneur.


My brother-in-law started out with a similar mind set and was stuck working part-time or in a completely different field. When he started listening to the advice of those in his desired field, he was able to work his way into the position he wanted. He just could have save years if he had been willing to listen earlier.


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

tygrus said:


> Starting and running a successful business is pretty rewarding but its a LOT of work and it takes a force of will to make it happen. Sometimes I think just investing in someone else's company is the easier and wiser way to go.


I've seen it work either way ... a lot depends on the interest, energy and skills of the individual.


Cheers


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

This is a touchy subject because everyone will have a different view based on their own experiences. I think it all depends on what you as an individual want. The definition of 'smart', 'hard work' and 'rich' is very different for everyone. One might hide behind a degree to prove they are smart. One may consistenly do overtime to show they're working hard. And one might drive a Mercedes to show they are rich. Appearances alone are always deceiving.

Finding the right balance in life is key. Money is definately not everything. 
Needs and Wants: define them and choose wisely.


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## llagebs (Feb 24, 2014)

Interesting thread. I've been wondering lately what drives me to save and invest.

I've always naturally been a saver. I'm not sure exactly what compels me to save so much, but peace of mind (not worrying about money) has got to be up there. I'm a salaried employee and I literally don't know when I get paid - is it twice a month, or every 2 weeks? When is my next paycheck? Beats me. I make more money than I spend so I never worry about not having enough money for something (the daily purchase limit on my debit card is the only thing that has ever stopped me in my tracks!). I really like not worrying about money.

I don't think I'm even depriving myself of much either, nor am I sacrificing much time to accumulate money. I guess I have simple desires in life? Some people like to buy new cars, travel the world, etc, but I can honestly say I'm not terribly interested in big ticket expenses like that. I have my hobbies like badminton, UFC, etc. but they're on the cheap side - probably spend around $1000 per year in total on those hobbies. I can barely think of anything I wanted but said "no" to myself due to cost. I did decline a friend's invitation to get into amateur racing, because that can easily run you several thousand dollars a year. It's also about logistics - I didn't even have a garage to park the car or work on it, or a trailer to haul it around.

I had an insight the other day, which is that I treat saving the same way in videogames. I used to play World of Warcraft, which for those not aware is an online role playing game, and your character(s) earn and spend gold on various things throughout the game. I watched most of my friends there spend gold on frivolous things and were perpetually broke, meanwhile I was awash in gold without really trying. Again, like in real life I wasn't depriving myself of any material goods in the game. I enjoyed playing the game as much as anyone. I just liked to see my bank account go up all the time. I'm not sure why! I did spend gold whenever I wanted to, but never enough to really make a dent. Again like in real life, it was nice knowing that IF I wanted to buy something (within reason), I could. By the time I quit playing, I had around 30000 gold, which was a lot back then. All that digital currency is just sitting on a database somewhere, unspent!

I have to admit I like seeing my savings and investments go up in real life, just like in the videogame. There's just something rewarding about growing your wealth, isn't there? Even if there isn't a specific goal in mind. My only goals at the moment are "retirement" (quite a nebulous goal, isn't it?) and a down payment for real estate. I passed the 6 figure mark on the down payment, which ought to be plenty (lots of people buy with virtually zero down), but with the RE market being so bubbly (Vancouver!) it's a terrible time to buy, so I just keep accumulating.

I'm afraid I'll get at the end of my life (like the end of the videogame) with a big pile of cash. And what will have been the point of accumulating it for all those years, only to see it passed on to whoever is in my will? They would probably just spend it all.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Maybe this makes sense to someone else, this desire to accumulate money for the sake of accumulating money, without spending much of it. It's not like I'm a miser - I live pretty well. There just isn't anything compelling to spend it on!


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## Westerncanada (Nov 11, 2013)

CMF.. 


As someone who has been on all three sides of the coin (albeit newer to investing) I would say that there is certain types of people that suit each role the best. Me personally, I love business.. everything about it and loved owning my own companies and being the CEO Of my own destiny so to speak. However, as life went on and your circumstance changes (ie kids) I felt like a corporate career with benefits, paid holidays, pension, life insurance was something that appealed more to me although my heart was still with being an entrepreneur. 

I really believe that if you want something bad enough, you will find a way to get it and get there. 

All the best in whichever path you choose.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

I think that it is very much a function of your personality, your work ethic, the opportunities that come along and your ability to recognize them as such AND take advantage of the right one(s). I was fortunate enough to work in a very lucrative environment for my last 10 working years. It was challenging work with long hours and travel but in many ways it was like running my own business. You do need to be careful. We are in our early sixties, financially secure and enjoying retirement. 

My BIL is in his late sixties and owns his own business. His challenge is that he has no exit strategy. His son does not want to take over, the past few years have not been good, and there is questionable good will value left in the business. It comes down to plant and equipment value. He and his wife are slaves to that place and have the worry of business loans, etc.

There are many things to consider and many opportunities to mine. Plus, you need to be happy with your work...no use spending your working life doing something that you dislike.


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## Abbie Darcy (Apr 10, 2014)

I have seen all post and I realized that a nice combination of Investing and Business and Career. They are all depended with both of all.


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