# Hyundai/Kia quality vs Honda /Toyota?



## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

we've always pretty much been a "Honda or Toyota" family when it comes to cars...
Until my 2004 (I think) Accord started burning more oil than gas & the dealer was zero help. I got rid of it & bought a lo-mileage 2007 Hyundai Elantra, which I just just recently sold, & bought a 2016 Corolla.( mainly because it was a "good deal")
Havent bought "new" in years. I try to look for a "good" late-model used, from private seller , not dealers.
Daughter is in market now for a new "used" car & I'm tempted to steer her towards Hyundai or Kia...there seems to be lots of them on the road.
As always I'd appreciate any comments from my insightful friends here on CMF as to the quality of Hyundai & Kia these days...versus other brands...? Thanks!


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## l1quidfinance (Mar 17, 2017)

One of our cars is currently a 2012 Kia Sportage. 

Just coming up to 130,000km. Has cost nothing other than routine maintentace, brakes, tyres this year, Plugs filters and oil. 
It's been a very good car so far and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. 

It was a rush purchase at the time. My wifes loyal Rav 4 had been rear ended and was worth next to nothing. I had just moved to Canada so we just grabbed it mainly for the 0% finance.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Honda and Toyota. Previous Camry had 425KM. No issues, never burned oil, great car. 2006 Accord has 200K. Never an issue. 2007 Solara rag top has 100K but it is now a summer car only.

Looking at pre-owned:

IF you are considering Hyundai or Kia do a google search on a of their engines. One engine has a significant issue and has been replaced. Older models still out there. Major issues with oil leaking into the rad. Apparently they do not have a fix. Quite a bit of negative publicity stateside.

IF you are looking at used CRV it appear that some of the older ones in Manitoba and East are being recalled and offered buyouts because of underside corrosion at the back end. CBC recently ran a story on this.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

When I looked into them years ago, Hyundai offered more bang for the buck. More safety features, more benefits, cheaper prices, good reliability...it would be hard to pass up on one for the premium pricing of Honda/Toyota.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

kinda my thinking too, JAG...


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Some models/manufacturers appear to have better value on a new purchase. One of two reasons for that: 1) Manufacturer is trying to build volume, and/or 2) Quality is not there yet. My view of Hyundai/Kia is the latter....same reason most Fiat/Chrysler products are 'under priced'. Lots of places for a manufacturer to skip on cost, e.g. carbon steel where an alloy should be used, etc, etc. That sort of thing starts showing up in repairs 5-10 years in. I have no doubt they are getting better but I wouldn't touch them. Significant early depreciation and low resale values attest to it as well.

Right now Hyundai/Kia are in crisis mode with a range of their engines over a range of model years, with no apparent fix available. They've tried to keep it under the radar and have been refusing engine replacements if they can get away with it. No recall notice yet that I know of. Every time I hear of a vehicle fire locally, I wonder if it is a good ol' Hyundia/Kia. Googling will turn up many links.

Anecdote: Maybe not relevant but my not then spouse had a 2005 (?) Kia Sportage in Calgary. It actually had a Mazda engine/tranny power train so that part performed well and took a lot of abuse from lack of maintenance. The rest of it was pure junk. When she moved to BC in 2013, she gave it away since it would have cost a fortune to pass a mechanical inspection for registration.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

IF I were buying new or used, I have done both, I would focus on low mileage Toyota and Honda products. Just remember that you need a timing belt replacement every 100K or so. Expensive so figure that into the cost of used.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

I've owned several Toyotas of different brands and have always been satisfied. We strayed a few years ago and bought a Honda Civic - there is a significant paint peeling problem and the snow in winter builds in the wheel wheels and can dislodge the quarter panel. Never had those problems when we had Corollas. Currently also own a Rav4 - fantastic vehicle.


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

My 2005 Civic has around 203,000 km on it and I don't have any plan to change it for the next five years or until I become a millionaire. I usually check https://www.carcomplaints.com/ prior to buy any car. My brother bought a 2014 Civic last year too.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

ian said:


> IF I were buying new or used, I have done both, I would focus on low mileage Toyota and Honda products. Just remember that you need a timing belt replacement every 100K or so. Expensive so figure that into the cost of used.


A good number of toyotas have a timing chain instead of a belt. No replacement. Worth looking into yourself as the average seller / car salesman will likely not know which is which.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

off.by.10 said:


> A good number of toyotas have a timing chain instead of a belt. No replacement. Worth looking into yourself as the average seller / car salesman will likely not know which is which.


As do some others, particularly with V6 engines.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

ian said:


> IF I were buying new or used, I have done both, I would focus on low mileage Toyota and Honda products. Just remember that you need a timing belt replacement every 100K or so. Expensive so figure that into the cost of used.


This was the case with early users of timing belts but not so on newer cars. Replacement intervals are much longer, in some cases they don't recommend replacing them at all. Consult the maintenance schedule in the owner's manual to be sure. Incidentally if you want your car to have a long trouble free life, follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule. I know people who have driven their cars 300,000 or 400,000 Km trouble free by doing this.

I have heard good things about Mazda but never owned one myself. May worth considering.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> Anecdote: Maybe not relevant but my not then spouse had a 2005 (?) Kia Sportage in Calgary. It actually had a Mazda engine/tranny power train so that part performed well and took a lot of abuse from lack of maintenance. The rest of it was pure junk. When she moved to BC in 2013, she gave it away since it would have cost a fortune to pass a mechanical inspection for registration.


so, she got 8 years or so out of it? with little or no maintenance? back whentheire quality was presumably not
as good as it is now? not too bad....


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

jargey3000 said:


> so, she got 8 years or so out of it? with little or no maintenance? back whentheire quality was presumably not
> as good as it is now? not too bad....


As I mentioned, the Mazda power train is what stood up. A small 4 cylinder in a tank like beast that required it to be wound up much of the time. About 110 km/hr tops on the QE2. The rest of it was.....well, junk. So many things broke and required repair or were left unfixed. Granted this was before the Hyundai buyout, and before even Hyundai started to care about their vehicles too.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

With reports of spontaneous fires on Hyundai/Kia and not very good compnay response, given those alternatives, I would say Honda/Toyota. 

But maybe also look at Subaru. We bought a new Outback in December. They are very well priced once you look at total package and have very good reputation. I traded from a Mercedes. The Outback is not a Mercedes, but it seems a darned good car at the price. Never found anything from Honda/Toyota/Kia/Hyundai or the domestics that was a comparable value. We have only a few months experience, but two friends have owned two each and would buy another.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

> Originally Posted by off.by.10 View Post
> A good number of toyotas have a timing chain instead of a belt. No replacement. Worth looking into yourself as the average seller / car salesman will likely not know which is which.





AltaRed said:


> As do some others, particularly with V6 engines.


Timing chains also have to be changed. Maybe after 100k miles instead of km for belts.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....sheeshhh. I dont recall EVER changing a timing belt or chain, on ANY. car I ever had...( or ever having a timing problem, for that matter....)


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## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

Wife and I are ex Volvo and BMW owners when working. But we got tired of the mid life crisis the Euro cars seem to have. Honda and Toyota are no doubt great, but now we love our Subaru’s. I have a 2016 Outback, she has a 2014 Crosstrek. Owned since new, zero problems so far.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Timing chains also have to be changed. Maybe after 100k miles instead of km for belts.


No indication from the manufacturer nor online forums about the need to change chains on our 2 vehicles (2007 V6 Infiniti and 2013 Nissan Pathfinder). Online forums suggest only if they get rather noisy and start rattling against other parts.

Contrary to Jargey's experience, timing belts do wear and stretch and can break. The biggest issue with a broken belt is on engines where there would be piston/valve interference.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Know a lot of Hyundai/Kia owners. All seem very happy with their cars, but a little embarrassed that they do. I suppose it’s all to do with the status symbol of not owning a Toyota and the old pony days. 

Never heard of any fires, oil leaks into the cooling or any major issues. Many have been driven for years on just regular maintenance...the one I had had to have the manual transmission replaced, but it held up for over 250k and three people learning how to drive a stick for the first time on it (some manual transmissions can’t survive one novice driver).


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

You haven't been paying attention recently. They are disasters. A few links for you.....

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27053460/nhtsa-investigation-hyundai-kia-fires/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...s-over-potential-engine-fire-risk/3013839002/
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/hyundai-finds-new-engine-problem-prompting-another-recall-1.4358104
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-giants-delay-recall-on-engine-known-to-fail-1.5044866


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Limited experience here. My Dad bought a Toyota Corolla new in 1984 and drove it for the rest of his life without any repairs. When he passed in 2000, we sold it to an auto recycler. (In Ontario)

We have a 2008 Nissan Xtrail that we bought in 2012. It has been beat by cobblestone roads and we had the motor mounts replaced plus one wheel bearing. Otherwise no problems. Looks and drives like new. (In PV MX)


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

AltaRed said:


> You haven't been paying attention recently. They are disasters. A few links for you.....
> 
> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27053460/nhtsa-investigation-hyundai-kia-fires/
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...s-over-potential-engine-fire-risk/3013839002/
> ...


Thanks for that info alta.
If you were to stay away from the models and years that have the problems....would you probably be ok? ......


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Probably not. No really good reason other than still biased against products that, IMO, have not yet earned their credentials. Think one should look at websites regarding repair records and/or recalls. Whether Hyundai has disproportionate recalls, I don't really know. What does Consumer Reports say? Others? 

Truth of the matter is I've not bothered to research because I plan to stay in the luxury market.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Just read an article on global news about bmw sunroofs exploding for no reason...guess the luxury market also has its problems.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

well, CR rates the Kia Optima as best overall mid-size sedan for 2017..."move over Camry and Accord"....


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

If its your daughter push her towards a Jeep Wrangler...remove the top, remove the doors,take the boys 4x4'ing. Awesome.

(It does get **** mileage but after 300k on mine it still makes everyone want to party when inside)

I did push my daughter to Mazda 323 to be honest, great cheap ,trouble free car...0% interest.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Jeeps are a very rough ride too...it almost hurts to ride in one.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

actually, i'm thinking of pushing her (and their new baby....) towards one of these.....&#55357;&#56832;&#55357;&#56832;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zyQy8gZUDPU


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> ....sheeshhh. I dont recall EVER changing a timing belt or chain, on ANY. car I ever had...( or ever having a timing problem, for that matter....)


I could probably send you some pictures of what can happen when a timing chain/belt breaks. But in short, the engine gets trashed. Pistons hit valves for example, crankshafts get bent, holes in side of cylinders. You get the picture. It is a must do maintenance item at the timing the manufacturer states,


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> Thanks for that info alta.
> If you were to stay away from the models and years that have the problems....would you probably be ok? ......


There were also instances of poor quality control on their engine blocks. Hopefully those problems have been resolved. But which models are likely to have future problems is anyone's guess. Same is true buying any car. You could get a dud. I would buy a new car with a manufacturer's warranty and keep it for 3-5 years depending on the warranty. These modern cars are so complex, you have to expect problems and you don't want them when out of warranty.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

agent99 said:


> I could probably send you some pictures of what can happen when a timing chain/belt breaks. But in short, the engine gets trashed. Pistons hit valves for example, crankshafts get bent, holes in side of cylinders. You get the picture. It is a must do maintenance item at the timing the manufacturer states,


I agree. A timing belt change based on manufacturer's recommendations is the best value one can get... short of running an engine out of oil or coolant that is.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Got a '13 Hyundai with 130k that's doing fine. Used to have a '01 Honda Civic that broke down all the time.

You can hardly buy a newish Honda or Toyota with low miles that's any cheaper than a brand new one. You're essentially paying for the "fact" that it is more reliable and won't breakdown, which I'm sure is a little bit true, but so what if you have to pay thousands extra.

If I wanted a brand new car though, Honda all the way... I can sell it to some sucker after 5 years for 2/3rds new.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If old compact cars are so reliable and valuable, why are the owners selling them ?

Not a word on safety in this thread. Does nobody consider what happens to them in a collision with a large SUV ?

Hint.......it isn't good for those in the compact car.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Funnily enough, we currently have an '06 Kia Sportage that we bought from new. I have been wrestling lately with whether it is time to buy a new car or not. The thing is, I cannot find any actual NEED that is not being met by our Kia and therefore any advantage buying something newer would give us. That is forcing us to admit that we don't need to buy anything, it becomes a question then of what you want to buy rather than need to buy. No financial justification possible, so annoying. 

With 240k on the odometer, it is still rust free and has never given us any non-expected(normal wear and tear) problems. It really does look like any new car and has averaged under $1000 per year for maintenance including things like timing belts (2x), tires (2x), a radiator this last year. A while back I asked my mechanic about the exhaust system. It just occurred to me one day that I had never put a new exhaust on yet. They have always been a typical 'normal wear and tear' item you needed to replace on an older car. My mechanic told me, 'nope', it's stainless, no reason for you to ever have to replace that item.' 

As for Kia/Hyundai vs. Honda etc. well you can find plenty of owner reviews online quite easily. It really all comes down to individual preference. I've been looking at the New Kia Sportage and just don't like the look of them. I prefer the look of my '06. So I've been looking at the Mazda CX-5 as an alternative. Nice looking car.

The only vehicles I will no longer consider at all are the N. American car companies rust buckets. And as for individual problems and recalls, I don't think there is manufacturer who hasn't had their share of those. Kia recalled my Sportage to increase the underside rust proofing! Try imagining Ford or GM doing that.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> If old compact cars are so reliable and valuable, why are the owners selling them ?
> 
> Not a word on safety in this thread. Does nobody consider what happens to them in a collision with a large SUV ?
> 
> Hint.......it isn't good for those in the compact car.


So what should we do? All buy large SUVS? But if large SUVs hit a transport truck, they will also come off 2nd best. So then should we all drive around in transport trucks 

Even 20 year old cars. Or at least the high end ones, have multiple air bags, crush zones and have high impact safety ratings. Anyone buying a car can check the safety ratings here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings or here: https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/subaru/outback-4-door-wagon (The last link is actually for the 2019 Outback that we bought). More here from Edmunds: https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/how-to-check-car-safety-ratings.html

We should be encouraging use of smaller fuel efficient vehicles, not large SUVs or trucks.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I was going to suggest that Sags with his grave personal concerns about climate change would at least drive something like a Smart car, or smaller. Maybe a Nissan Leaf for perhaps reduced emissions (depending on whether Sags has green power or not).


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

kcowan said:


> Limited experience here. My Dad bought a Toyota Corolla new in 1984 and drove it for the rest of his life without any repairs. When he passed in 2000, we sold it to an auto recycler. (In Ontario)
> 
> We have a 2008 Nissan Xtrail that we bought in 2012. It has been beat by cobblestone roads and we had the motor mounts replaced plus one wheel bearing. Otherwise no problems. Looks and drives like new. (In PV MX)


Nissan quality isn't what it used to be since Renault took over. I would avoid Nissan.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> I was going to suggest that Sags with his grave personal concerns about climate change would at least drive something like a Smart car, or smaller. Maybe a Nissan Leaf for perhaps reduced emissions (depending on whether Sags has green power or not).


Toyota Prius has an excellent record of longevity and reliability. The one expensive replacement is batteries when they get old, $3000 from the dealer. But reconditioned batteries are available for $1000.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

When it comes to fluids (especially rad, trans, and brake) and timing belts etc. we follow the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter. So far it has worked for well for us. Accord goes in for timing belt and water pump just as soon as the Solara gets licensed for the summer. 200K is a decision point for us prior to doing the timing belt. It was either a Rav4 or keep the Accord. Accord won, we like it so much and we are away for most of the bad winter weather.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> I was going to suggest that Sags with his grave personal concerns about climate change would at least drive something like a Smart car, or smaller. Maybe a Nissan Leaf for perhaps reduced emissions (depending on whether Sags has green power or not).


We rarely drive but own a new SUV and a new midsize car and drive the SUV when we have the grandson.

Just because you own a big SUV doesn't mean you have to drive it all the time.


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## Karlhungus (Oct 4, 2013)

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/19/top-10-cars-for-smart-people/


Mr money mustaches take on it. He pored over many consumer reports to come up with his list.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

A good list but a dearth of vehicles from the last 5 years or so, i.e. not overly helpful to someone buying new. There is a trend of course, but Hyundai/Kia latest issues are from newer models than those on the list. All said though, we won't come to a consensus even if we had 40 pages of posts on this topic. 

Jargey will need to try and look at some more recent data and make a judgement, including the reputation of the local dealer. One is pretty much at the mercy of the dealer during the warranty period.


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## Emjay85 (Nov 9, 2014)

jargey3000 said:


> actually, i'm thinking of pushing her (and their new baby....) towards one of these.....����
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zyQy8gZUDPU


Baby involved, changes everything.

Definitely lean toward a small or midsize suv. CRV, santa fe, rav 4, all great choices. Even a hyundai tuscon. Babies come with tons of stuff and getting them in and out of a small car is a true pain in the ***. I just got rid of my 09 civic for a 2012 crv and it has been the best decision yet. Loads of space for strollers, diaper bags, baby seats, toys etc. but still fairly good on gas still.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Emjay85 said:


> Baby involved, changes everything.
> 
> Definitely lean toward a small or midsize suv. CRV, santa fe, rav 4, all great choices. Even a hyundai tuscon. Babies come with tons of stuff and getting them in and out of a small car is a true pain in the ***. I just got rid of my 09 civic for a 2012 crv and it has been the best decision yet. Loads of space for strollers, diaper bags, baby seats, toys etc. but still fairly good on gas still.


sorry, full disclosure....their second vehicle IS an SUV....&#55357;&#56832;
she's getting rid of her 09 civic for the reasons emjay mentions plus, it has no AC....


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

AltaRed said:


> All said though, we won't come to a consensus even if we had 40 pages of posts on this topic.


Can't argue with that 

Surprised no-one mentions Subaru. 5 star safety ratings (CR-V, Rav4, Santa Fe don't), excellent reputation and depending on chosen trim, priced lower than the competition. 5-door hatchback Impreza brand new for under $25k might work? Crosstrek a bit more. Both have all wheel drive - great safety feature for for winter.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

agent99 said:


> Can't argue with that
> 
> Surprised no-one mentions Subaru. 5 star safety ratings (CR-V, Rav4, Santa Fe don't), excellent reputation and depending on chosen trim, priced lower than the competition. 5-door hatchback Impreza brand new for under $25k might work? Crosstrek a bit more. Both have all wheel drive - great safety feature for for winter.


Subaru may have been mentioned already. It is always a contender among the best. I would agree an AWD/4WD 5 dr hatchback would be a great second vehicle to the SUV they already own. But as I already said in post #43, it will often depend on dealer proximity and reputation as well. Certain dealers have terrible reputations and no matter how good the product, they are impossible to deal if/with when the need arises.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

+1

Dealerships are the only reason we have not considered Suburu.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

....they actually had a bad experience with Subaru in the past, & wont go back! lol...


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

Well you do have to deal with people you like and trust. 

In our town, we have smaller dealerships for some models. Some family owned. I had a hard time moving from Mercedes to Subaru because Mercedes dealer is excellent. But so far, and based on other owner's experience, so is the Subaru dealer. I did talk to the GM/Ford/Toyota people. Large dealerships and didn't feel welcome. Other owners confirmed my gut feeling.

So sure - buy from someone who your local friends confirm will give you good service. Most cars are pretty good.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

When I drove a company car I had occasion to deal with two dealerships in my city for lots of warranty issues in the first year.

One dealer's service team was awful. To the point where my SUV was delivered to me, after three weeks in the shop, with the engine light on. The other dealership service team was the complete opposite. 

The dealer, both in the store and in the service area, can make all of the difference especially if you end up with a lemon.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

agent99 said:


> Surprised no-one mentions Subaru. 5 star safety ratings (CR-V, Rav4, Santa Fe don't), excellent reputation and depending on chosen trim, priced lower than the competition. 5-door hatchback Impreza brand new for under $25k might work? Crosstrek a bit more. Both have all wheel drive - great safety feature for for winter.


My turbo hatchback impreza has been great to me so far.. 5 years now. It and the crosstreks always catch my eye. Very practical and versatile. You can still get both in manual which is pretty rare now.

Friends have Legacy/Outback and they are much smoother/quieter ride. I usually despise traction control but Subaru's actually works proper/smooth in the snow, yet the "eyesight" doesn't work well in the winter and it randomly cuts out traction control and lights up the dash at the worst times. The adaptive cruise/automatic braking is nice on dry pavement but again not designed for winter situations imo (I am comfortable driving sideways in winter but not trusting these!) So some of the safety features are still expensive gimmicks imo

I think the Subaru community nowadays is second only to Jeep.. Subaru wave and all. See recent ad made of "brand ambassador" content. They are nailing the instgram-influencer-guerrilla-marketing scheme


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> My turbo hatchback impreza has been great to me so far.. 5 years now. It and the crosstreks always catch my eye. Very practical and versatile. You can still get both in manual which is pretty rare now.
> 
> Friends have Legacy/Outback and they are much smoother/quieter ride.


Our Outback does have a smooth ride. But to me it is a bit like an American car's ride. Our last SUV was a Mercedes GLK. Definitely had superior ride and road handling. But so it should for the extra $20k that one costs over the OB!

Our Eyesight only stopped working once and it was in winter. The windscreen was fogging up where the cameras are . Car was new to us and we hadn't yet learned how the defroster worked! I have been surprised to find it works even in heavy rain. Adaptive cruise is by far the best eyesight feature. Backup camera with anti-collision useful. Blindspot warnings very useful too. Nav system Subaru uses (Tom-Tom, I think) doesn't compare with our portable Garmin. Misdirected us several times and couldn't find our Holiday Inn! You can hook in iphone or Android and use their mapping instead. I didn't want eyesight or NAV, but did want leather seats. So we had to take those because of way cars are packaged. Euro cars use a type of synthetic leather. But Asian and American cars either leather or what to me seems a cheap looking fabric seat material. 

Anyway, we are more than happy with our OB. At least as our long distance/go south vehicle. Lot's of space, comfortable and good gas economy with Reg gas. Won't drive it much in summer. If and when we need to replace one of our daily drivers down the road, I will certainly consider another Subaru. But by then it will probably have to be an EV or Hybrid.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

agent99 said:


> Euro cars use a type of synthetic leather. But Asian and American cars either leather or what to me seems a cheap looking fabric seat material.
> 
> Anyway, we are more than happy with our OB. At least as our long distance/go south vehicle. Lot's of space, comfortable and good gas economy with Reg gas. Won't drive it much in summer. If and when we need to replace one of our daily drivers down the road, I will certainly consider another Subaru. But by then it will probably have to be an EV or Hybrid.


Yea my friend's leather seat has already cracked driver side bolster. I temporary taped it for him with clear gorilla tape and that has held up well.. BMW seats were indeed on another level. He bought it on my recommendation to drive across Canada. Great long distance car (I would not enjoy driving my stiff noisy impreza that far!) Mine is also a winter car and it would be hard to justify the awd otherwise. Summer is for motorbikes!


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

m3s said:


> Summer is for motorbikes!


I got bikes out of my system by the time I was about 22. Was my college transportation until then. Fell off a few time! Nice on sunny days. Not so good in cold and rain (or when confronted by Sag's large SUVs  ) Summer these days is in my old roadster with top down


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> A good list but a dearth of vehicles from the last 5 years or so, i.e. not overly helpful to someone buying new. There is a trend of course, but Hyundai/Kia latest issues are from newer models than those on the list. All said though, we won't come to a consensus even if we had 40 pages of posts on this topic.


The Kia engine problems are definitely concerning, sounds really bad.

I recently drove a 2020 Kia Forte for a while. I was very pleasantly surprised with the driving experience and also the quality of the interior. Considering that it's one of the lowest priced cars out there, I thought it was very impressive. It feels solid (not cheap), good on fuel, handled very nicely on the highway, decent HP, and good size & interior space.

A few cars in this "class" that I have personally enjoyed driving over the years are:

Kia Forte
Hyundai Accent
Hyundai Elantra
Hyundai i30 (not available in Canada), similar to Elantra
Toyota Corolla
It's really hard to beat the pure quality and reliability of Toyota, though. From everything I've heard, these are the cars you just do some routine maintenance on and really never have any other major issues. But I am open minded to trying a Kia or Hyundai ... except ... this information about the engine trouble really give me pause.

That being said, I really did thoroughly enjoy the Hyundai i30 / Elantra and Kia Forte.

Now a year since the original thread, how do people feel about Kia and Hyundai?


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> The Kia engine problems are definitely concerning, sounds really bad.
> 
> I recently drove a 2020 Kia Forte for a while. I was very pleasantly surprised with the driving experience and also the quality of the interior. Considering that it's one of the lowest priced cars out there, I thought it was very impressive. It feels solid (not cheap), good on fuel, handled very nicely on the highway, decent HP, and good size & interior space.
> 
> ...





m3s said:


> My turbo hatchback impreza has been great to me so far.. 5 years now. It and the crosstreks always catch my eye. Very practical and versatile. You can still get both in manual which is pretty rare now.
> 
> Friends have Legacy/Outback and they are much smoother/quieter ride. I usually despise traction control but Subaru's actually works proper/smooth in the snow, yet the "eyesight" doesn't work well in the winter and it randomly cuts out traction control and lights up the dash at the worst times. The adaptive cruise/automatic braking is nice on dry pavement but again not designed for winter situations imo (I am comfortable driving sideways in winter but not trusting these!) So some of the safety features are still expensive gimmicks imo
> 
> I think the Subaru community nowadays is second only to Jeep.. Subaru wave and all. See recent ad made of "brand ambassador" content. They are nailing the instgram-influencer-guerrilla-marketing scheme


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

One other point on the Subaru is their safety. I was alone in our 2011 Legacy and got broadsided on the passenger side at 50 kmh. Air bag went off and car was totaled but I drove it home and suffered ZERO injuries. Bought a new one the next day. The other newer vehicle was a mess and was towed away, presumably to the junk yard.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

If youre really worried about quality, Hyundai offers warranties upwards of 10 years....not any other manufacturers do.


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

What ever model you are considering I'd see what Kilmer has to say about it. He seems to be a one man consumer reports on cars. 









Scotty Kilmer


This is the people's automotive channel! The most honest and funniest car channel on YouTube. Never any sponsored content, just the truth about everything! L...




www.youtube.com


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Pluto said:


> What ever model you are considering I'd see what Kilmer has to say about it. He seems to be a one man consumer reports on cars.


Thanks, I'll check that out. Also curious what other Hyundai, Kia, Toyota owners on the forum think.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I’ve only owned Honda’s......and one Pontiac (Right price, GM points, starting a family). My wife’s only driven Honda’s. 

I can’t recall anything breaking on any of my Honda’s. Regular maintenance...fluids, brakes.
I did replace an O2 sensor once. And there was the odd recall over the years. never even changed a battery or a light bulb.

I was gifted an Acura MDX once...I loved that thing. i think it was about 10 years old when I got it. It had a catastrophic failure. Poor design of the transmission cooler had the transmission fluid and coolant in close proximity so when it failed, the two fluids mixed. Would have required a new tranny and probably a new rad, and countless “flushes” of the engine. Sold it for $2000. have no idea how it was maintained before I got it.

I’m a big Honda fan.....I think they have a great balance of practicality and sportiness. My V6 stick shift Accord is a blast.

Honda’s don't even need motor oil.....


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## spiritwalker2222 (Nov 7, 2017)

My wife has a 2013 Kia Sportage. Never had an issue.

I've never had a Honda, although my wife did have an Acura that it's motor blow, it was 9 years old and maintained per the manual.

Have you sat in the new Honda' Civic? I have, they are big cars on the outside, but small inside. I am skinny and find the drivers seat really cramped, a quick look to the center console shows where all the space went. The Accord was the same thing. They must have used the designer from the CR-V.


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