# Putin answering questions



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Interesting article... I wish JT will do the same


> Mixing wry jokes with economic statistics, Russian President Vladimir Putin sought to reassure the nation during his annual marathon call-in TV show Thursday, promising that its troubled economy will rebound and vowing to make other countries take account of Russia's interests.
> 
> Putin answered questions from adults and children from around the country during the highly scripted event, which he used to burnish his image as a strong leader who protects Russia from foreign threats and cares about ordinary people's needs.
> 
> ...


http://www.barchart.com/headlines/s...-to-charm-insists-russian-economy-on-the-mend


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Same as Putin? As in kill journalists and opposition and invade our southern neibour? Really?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Same as Putin? As in kill journalists and opposition and invade our southern neibour? Really?


I meant "_Putin answered questions from adults and children from around the country during the highly scripted event_"... and who told you that Putin kills "journalists and opposition and invade our southern neibour"?!



> He said Russia's air campaign in Syria, which began on Sept. 30, helped advertise the latest Russian weapons to international customers, with accumulated foreign orders currently at about $50 billion. The demand for air defense systems, in particular, was so high that it was necessary to build three new factories to produce them, he said.


 Exactly what I said when Russia brought C 400 and new TU s.

And this is key point _"He said the United States must abandon what he described as its "imperial ambitions" and learn to respect Russia's legitimate interests.

"If they talk to us in a respectful way, we will always be able to find solutions that will satisfy everyone," he said. "They must simply work with Russia as an equal partner."_


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Says the sheep in wolf's clothing. Nothing more than a scripted show controlled by 'controlled' state media. The so called live questions were highly pre-selected from the millions originally put forward. Putin's pyscho assessment would be sociopath....the ability to charm and be personable while being absolutely evil and ruthless at the same time. I see he now is going to put together an army of 'brown shirts', sorry, I mean National Guard.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

"who told you that Putin kills "journalists and opposition and invade our southern neibour"

This is factual information: 

- On Putin's say-so Russia invaded Ukraine. Assume you are aware of this; it's hard not to be. 

- Multiple opposition leaders and journalists have been murdered. Nezavisimaya Gazeta alone had 6 of its journalists murdered. While Putin's courts didn't bring charges against Putin (great surprise), nobody else had the authority to murder Nemtzov next to Kremlin's walls or to authorize the use of Polonium-210 to murder Litvinenko in London. Putin's senior officials issue direct open murder threats to opposition all the time, like Kadyrov did when he published Kasyanov's photo through a gun target. 

^^AltaRed is correct regarding the show itself but its kind of irrelevant when talking about a mass murderer. Still, it was interesting that Putin accepted that $2 billion made it's way to his musician-pal accounts in Panama. He then proceeded to claim that the money is now gone because it was used to purchase 4 really expensive musical instruments. Apparently Stradivari was a native of Panama - who knew?


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

don't _fiddle_ with Vlad...


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> On Putin's say-so Russia invaded Ukraine. Assume you are aware of this; it's hard not to be.


 BS! Crimea had referendum and with almost 90% decided to join Russia



> nobody else had the authority to murder Nemtzov next to Kremlin's walls


 sure!


> Several suspects have been implicated in the assassination, all of which are Chechens. The alleged shooter is a former officer in the security force of Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> BS! Crimea had referendum and with almost 90% decided to join Russia


Sure. Sudentland had "elections" and >90% voted for the Nazis while being occupied and Austria had a "referendum" after the Anschluss. How does this change the fact of invasion? 

Kadyrov was appointed by Putin and is a senior official reporting to Putin. Wouldn't you hold a mafia boss responsible for the murders committed by his footsoldiers?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Sure. Sudentland had "elections" and >90% voted for the Nazis while being occupied and Austria had a "referendum" after the Anschluss


 yes, sure! Only referendums in US or Canada are valid :stupid:
My uncle family lived in Crimea , I visited him for a long time ... Crimea was always pro-Russian.

and btw, i won't be surprised if 890% of Austria supported Anschluss..

Is Gallup also Putin's marionette?! :biggrin: or maybe Forbes?!



> In June 2014, a Gallup poll with the Broadcasting Board of Governors asked Crimeans if the results in the March 16, 2014 referendum to secede reflected the views of the people. A total of 82.8% of Crimeans said yes. When broken down by ethnicity, 93.6% of ethnic Russians said they believed the vote to secede was legitimate, while 68.4% of Ukrainians felt so. Moreover, when asked if joining Russia will ultimately make life better for them and their family, 73.9% said yes while 5.5% said no


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...ea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#3ad4b8205951

Read more our state propoganda, they will explain you why referendums in Scotland or Venice are legal, recognising of Kosovo without any referendum is legal, but Crimea ones is illegal :stupid:


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

We can discuss referendum on the moon, or what would happen if Sweden invaded Peterburg and offered the locals Swedish pensions for a vote but none of it is relevant to the basic point that there was Russian invasion and annexation of a part of Ukraine. Following the invasion Crimean Tartars were persecuted some killed and many expelled. And Crimea wasn't the only part of Ukraine subjected to the invasion. 

This is textbook imperialism by Tsar Putin.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

And by the way if you like independence referendums so much, I assume you support the independence of Tatarstan. That referendum wasn't organized in 2 days, there were no neo-nazi observers and it wasn't conducted immediately after an armed invasion.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> We can discuss referendum on the moon


 we can discuss everything on the moon, but discuss something with brainwashed people is a waste of time.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> we can discuss everything on the moon, but discuss something with brainwashed people is a waste of time.


Quite. Like with anyone who was capable of coming up with an idea of quoting Putin's show as an example of democracy we should follow in Canada. Thank god it wasn't Stalin's show trials but then there is always the next post.


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> Says the sheep in wolf's clothing. Nothing more than a scripted show controlled by 'controlled' state media. The so called live questions were highly pre-selected from the millions originally put forward. Putin's pyscho assessment would be sociopath....the ability to charm and be personable while being absolutely evil and ruthless at the same time. I see he now is going to put together an army of 'brown shirts', sorry, I mean National Guard.


Sounds exactly like the mainstream media show in the US. Also you probably noticed how they are trying to rig Trump out go of the nomination. In the US you have a choice between picked candidates that you can then elect, with the mainstream media completely behind it, so no democracy there.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Can we please get in touch with reality for 1 minute? US has a range of media sources, privately owned with different editorial policies. Most of them are not overly fond of Trump, but that's just a coincidence because educated people generally don't like misogynists who spread crazy conspiracy theories. 

Putin's government had all Russian private TV companies annihilated and taken over by the government, journalists fired and opposition banned from appearing on TV. 

It's NOTHING like the US.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Putin's government had all Russian private TV companies annihilated and taken over by the government, journalists fired and opposition banned from appearing on TV.


 Just don't bullshit people here. I watch different Russian channels almost every day and there are much more critics against Putin than against JT in Canada. Also, everyone in Russia can watch a lot of foreign channels..
Just yesterday I watch Stand-Up on THT where Putin and his politics were harshly criticized...

P.S. Can you tell me how many of US "independent" TV channels criticized US invasion into Grenada?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Gibor, not sure what your love of Putin is all about.... but perhaps you would prefer to live there? There seems to be a strong acceptance on your part of his bullying antics. Just because there may be significant weightings of ethnic Russians in a region does not make it acceptable for Russia to annex it. The Kurds certainly are not going anywhere fast for a Kurdistan they would like to have out of certain regions of Turkey, Syria and Iraq (perhaps Iran too).

The risk of an autocratic Russia is there is no strong opposition allowed to challenge him or perhaps even have a no confidence vote over him. When was the last time the Russian Parliament rejected Putin's wishes? Or the justice system for that matter? The problem is there is no equally weighted 3 legged stool in Russia for true checks and balances against wingnuts in power. I don't think much of the USA myself (for many reasons), but it does have a strong Legislative Branch and a Justice Branch to counter the Administrative (i.e. the White House) branch. And oh yeah, I agree some of those US military antics were questionable at best.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> The risk of an autocratic Russia is there is no strong opposition allowed to challenge him or perhaps even have a no confidence vote over him


 Simply because vast majority of Russians strongly support Putin... especially after American puppy Eltzin who destroyed country. Or you think that NATO should decide who will be Russian President?!



> Gibor, not sure what your love of Putin is all about


 I don't say that I love Putin , but he's the best choice for Russia. 
P.S. Same way as I never said I like Harper, i just prefer him over JT



> there may be significant weightings of ethnic Russians in a region does not make it acceptable for Russia to annex it. The Kurds certainly are not going anywhere fast for a Kurdistan they would like to have out of certain regions of Turkey, Syria and Iraq (perhaps Iran too).


 Altared, just read some history about Crimea as part of Russia ... No doubt that if there were country as Kurdistan, some regions of Kurdish populated countries would do a lot in order to join Kurdistan.

P.S. If US won't organized anti government putsch in Kiev, nothing would happened


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

I'm with gibor on this one.

The whole Q&A thing.

Putin excels at this and I have enjoyed watching the last one and plan to watch this one at some point when I have the time.

This is not to say that he can't accurately be described with some 5-dollar word ending in 'path', but it can equally be argued that we and our southern neighbours could have our respective previous leaders decribed similarly, or at the very least with a 4-dollar word ending in 'path'.

The whole Q&A thing I think would play very well here, I think, but we don't need it, we don't need to keep a huge diverse nation, threatened on all sides, strong through unification via a strong leader.

They do.
Just due to geography, past history of invasions, etc. (they have very good reasons to be suspicious of neighbouring powers based on their history for the last 1000 years), pressure of impeding expansion by the nato nations (against their post WW11 pledge btw).

Something some of the posters here seem to be forgetting, is that 

1. the Ukraine had a military coup, supported by the west, displacing their democratically elected leader, (nvm for now that he may have been corrupt as sh-t, really how many of them aren't, east or west), so, in actuality, russia has a very solid argument that any actions they took was in the in the interest of democracy.

2. Crimea was not invaded, the russians were already there, they have a base there that is critical to the defence of their nation, and as well it was historically part of Russia, but was handed over to Ukraine, same as Alaska was given to the US.
___

I really don't have much of an opinion one way or another, I don't know much, though I would guess our friends here on CMF gibor and MoneyToo, & possibly some others no doubt left there to come here for very good reasons.

But I do find that corner of the world entertaining.

Sometimes I go to liveleak and watch some stuff from there.
all the vehicles have cams so there's tons of footage of roadrage & other antics, some crazy skillful combat unloads of fully loaded trucks etc. (combat unloads is a military term for backing up a truck and braking to unload quickly), 
back to the roadrage, funny is when somebody is getting all ready for a fistfight, & dude in suit, just shows other guy the pistol and guy quickly makes himself not there,
also on liveleak, lots of wild vodka-fueled fistfights, often with women dishing it out as good as any man, 
people doing crazy experiments, like using a broken microwave as some kind of laze-cannon (without regard to personal protection)

From my admittedly limited viewpoint, Putin is exactly the perfect leader for the place, the glue to hold that crazy-*** place together and maybe make it stronger. 

It seems to me they very much want to be at one with the west and I don't understand why there is still so much resistance.
The whole 'commie' thing from the 1950's days of McCarthyism seems to be a stain impossible to erase from the collective psyche doesn't it, even though the wall already went down during the Reagan era.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

"I watch different Russian channels almost every day"

Explains a lot. A few questions:

- Please tell me when was it that Navalny got interviewed by a major TV channel for the last time? And then name a democratic country that would ban opposition leaders from TV. 

- When will be the next show by Shenderovich on one of the Russian channels? Because he was real popular up until the point he made a bit of fun of Putin and got banned altogether. 

- Did you enjoy Russian state TV showing FSB film with naked Kasyanov having sex? Is this proper use of taxpayers money? Which other government can do this to an opposition politician, former Prime Minister without those responsible being sacked? 

- What do you think about recently screened fabrication about Navalny supposedly working for MI6? Did you enjoy the letters allegedly written by the Brits and full of obvious errors? Navlny is going to court but it happens to be stuffed by Putin so we kind of know the outcome. 

- Do you agree that it was right to throw in prison that poor worker who asked Putin about the non-payment of salaries? Is this what you would like to see in Canada?

- Was it right to arrest world chess champion Kasparov for giving an interview? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-19300149

Re Granada - there is no parallel with the invasion of Ukraine because last time I checked US did not annex Granada. And US TV was not claiming that it wasn't US army taking over Granada - or that it was just odd people who purchased military fatigues in a shop. Putin did that with Crimea and every single Russian news channel parroted the blatant lie for a loooong time. 

Re "Putch in Kiev" - US did not organize Maidan that's pure conspiratorial idiocy. And if there were a protest in Russia leading to the change of government it does not give Sweden any right to annex St Petersburg. 

Re Crimean history... Yes, that is interesting. It was conquered by Russia in 1780s. t was transferred to Ukraine in the 1950s. In the 1990s there was a real referendum and Crimea voted to stay an autonomous part of Ukraine. In the 1940s native inhabitants were half murdered and half expelled/imprisoned by the Soviets. I. Those who managed to survive and return were not pleased with the latest invasion. They are now persecuted again. 

Re criticism of Trudeau - it's early days. Give him 4 years. It's not good when CBC clearly supports one party because that party promises lots of $s. So yes, there is genuine conflict of interest for CBC (also state-owned but luckily we also have mass media that is not controlled by the government). But this does not begin to compare with complete takeover of all major broadcasters by Putin's regime and the banishment of opposition and even comedians from Russian TV screens. It does not begin to compare to Kiselev, Putin's propagandist in chief, threatening nuclear war from the TV screens.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

mrPPincer said:


> From my admittedly limited viewpoint, Putin is exactly the perfect leader for the place, the glue to hold that crazy-*** place together and maybe make it stronger.


A very impressive understanding!  I gave up arguing with the first world-ers on the subject (especially since I don't follow the news -.and don't even know most of the names mentioned earlier), and I think it's the first time I read a similar to mine (limited) point of view here... so ditto - and thank you!


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

If Putin is so bad, then why do the majority of Russians support him? It's not as if they don't have access to alternative news sources now in the days of the internet. I think he is great for Russia. That doesn't mean he is great for Canada or Ukraine or Poland or whatever, as countries often have competing interests. But you can't deny that Putin has greatly improved that country economically, militarily, and thanks to him Russia has a lot more political clout than it had in the early 90s. If I lived in Russia I would probably vote for Putin.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks very much Moneytoo 
That means a lot coming from somebody who has actually lived there.

I should admit that I got a lot of insight from a dude on the internet who publishes something called CaspianReport

below is a link to one of his 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jHhzj08yQ


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Moneytoo said:


> A very impressive understanding!  I gave up arguing with the first world-ers on the subject (especially since I don't follow the news -.and don't even know most of the names mentioned earlier), and I think it's the first time I read a similar to mine (limited) point of view here... so ditto - and thank you!


Completely agree with this statement about mrPPincer  as well as with Earls's.



> I don't know much, though I would guess our friends here on CMF gibor and MoneyToo, & possibly some others no doubt left there to come here for very good reasons.


 we left not Russia, but USSR in 1990 ... and not to Canada, but to Israel . I'm not certain if I would leave Russia today.

Also, you cannot compare Crimea with Alaska! Alaska was sold to different country, US. Crimea was handed to be under jurisdiction of UkraineSSR ,that was integral part of USSR. It was just formality and nobody in the world would even imagine that Ukraine will separate. This was political act of Khrushev when USSR celebrated 300 years when Russia agreed accept Ukraine as part of their territory , when Poles were constantly kicking Ukrainian asses


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> A few questions


 yeah, yeah.... mordko, you forgot to mention "famous" pank-bank "***** Riot" :stupid:

and I bet that you have ukranian background


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I am from the Urals, Russia, have no Ukrainian background. And nobody knows the real level of Putins support. Just like we don't know how popular is the dear leader in N Korea.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

How come Vladimir Putin rides a motorcycle with training wheels? :biggrin:


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

> you cannot compare Crimea with Alaska! Alaska was sold to different country, US. Crimea was handed to be under jurisdiction of UkraineSSR ,that was integral part of USSR. It was just formality and nobody in the world would even imagine that Ukraine will separate. This was political act of Khrushev when USSR celebrated 300 years when Russia agreed accept Ukraine as part of their territory , when Poles were constantly kicking Ukrainian asses


ok, didn't know those actual details on that, just said it was something similar, that a territory was handed over in friendly terms, so this is a lead for me to a greater understanding, hard for me to think of Poles as aggressors actually, because they were for thousand(s) of years busy defending their borders on all sides as i understand it (semi-landlocked), but ofc it makes sense if a nation can hold it's borders it has to be able to push.

All I know is I know almost nothing.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

mrPPincer said:


> I should admit that I got a lot of insight from a dude on the internet who publishes something called CaspianReport
> 
> below is a link to one of his
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jHhzj08yQ


Thank you, will watch it later  Do you watch House of Cards? I loved their Putin-Petrov character:






(And as a Russian-speaking half-Russian/half Ukrainian Canadian from Eastern Ukraine - I'd never go back to either country; in fact, last time we visited was exactly 20 years ago - I cried happily when I saw CN Tower from the plane )


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> I am from the Urals, Russia, have no Ukrainian background. And nobody knows the real level of Putins support. Just like we don't know how popular is the dear leader in N Korea.


Than it's just funny how you talk about Kasparov, who is "Russian Bobby Fisher"  . He usually speaks in Engliah as his talks oriented for Western media... no one in Russia gives sh*t about him 

btw, my dad's family from Ukraine and I know very well who those Uktanian neo-nazis are!
Shenderovich is a popular?! Gime me a break! Popular now the guys from Comedy Club.
"Nowadays Shenderovich is a columnist of The New Times" :biggrin:
And you won't see his "program" becuase he's not popular!

btw, have no idea who is Navalny and why major TV channel should interview him. Maybe it's like to ask why Paul Robeson wasn't interviewed by najor US TV channels?!


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

Moneytoo said:


> Thank you, will watch it later  Do you watch House of Cards? I loved their Putin-Petrov character:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't have tv, but I sometimes do the marathon thing and watch entire seasons of shows if I get into them, have not seen any house of cards yet, will check it out sometime possibly, but my guess is what's happening south of the 49th parallel right now is probably wilder than the tv-series could have even imagined.

Glad to hear it re. flying back in to Canada


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Than it's just funny how you talk about Kasparov, who is "Russian Bobby Fisher"  . He usually speaks in Engliah as his talks oriented for Western media... no one in Russia gives sh*t about him
> 
> btw, my dad's family from Ukraine and I know very well who those Uktanian neo-nazis are!
> Shenderovich is a popular?! Gime me a break! Popular now the guys from Comedy Club.
> ...


Wow... Stunning. Anyone who really knows something about Russian politics knows Navalny. Certainly any Russian in Russia knows Navalny. He is the leader of the only opposition party, pretty popular. Which is actually amazing, given that he is banned from the screens. He started as a fighter against corruption. And given that you claim that you watch Russian TV, you should know who Navalny is for the simple reason that he is being regularly slandered while not been allowed to speak. At one point he ran for the Mayor of Moscow and got a third of the vote even though he was not allowed to campaign. 

Shenderovich WAS popular. His Kukly was the most popular political satire in late 90s early 2000s. Then he was banned from the screens - 15 year absence tends to reduce popularity somewhat. He is also one of the best modern writers in Russia. His latest books and theater productions have been banned as well. 

Kasparov is NOTHING like Bobby Fisher. Bobby Fisher was a crazy anti-Semite. Kasparov is neither. 

"no one in Russia gives sh*t about him" Don't think you can speak for everyone in Russia, but his popularity is irrelevant. This is the bit I don't get about you... Suppose Kasparov wasn't popular. Does that justify police arresting him and beating him up just because he gave an interview??? Really?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Also... Do you support arrest of the worker who asked Putin a question on why workers salaries are not being paid?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

This a fairly typical Russian position, from an old acquaintance of mine:

"...Clearly you cannot believe polls. Even I would have said that I love VVP (Vladimir Putin). What else can you say? They know your phone. Once again we have not exactly fear but we know we have to be careful... I live among people and I know their mood. Most don't understand what is going on. They think this crisis will pass. Things are getting worse all the time but slowly and not equally for everyone. Right now situation deteriorated most for the pensioners, for single people and for families with children. Others haven't felt major deterioration yet."

Do we really want to promote a regime that makes people scared to talk to opinion pollsters as an example for Canada?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Navalny is nationalist and far-right and that resulted in his expulsion from Yabloko, the oldest Liberal party in modern Russia.


> On June 23, 2007, Navalny co-founded a new political movement, named "People", which upheld the positions of "democratic nationalism", defined as a fight for democracy and rights of ethnic Russians;[32] according to a Navalny's biographer, Navalny differentiates the ethnic and social aspects of the term, highlighting the latter.[36] (In Russian, "nation" is commonly defined as a social term, while "nationality" is seen as related to ethnicity.)
> In June 2008, the movement joined forces with two other Russian nationalist movements, Movement Against Illegal Immigration (MAII) and Great Russia, to form a new coalition, Russian National Movement. Navalny declared the movement would participate in the next parliamentary elections, planning to get a great share of votes; he added, "up to 60% of the population upholds spontaneous nationalism, but it is not legally effectuated".[37] Later the same month, the MAII and People signed a cooperation agreement; at the procedure, he defined the "new political nationalism" as democratic, "fundamentally and statistically", adding, "we can teach blatant liberals a thing or two".


Do you really think that this nationalist can replace Putin?! What other alternatives?! Zyuganov ?! Kasparov?! give me a break 



> This a fairly typical Russian position


Really?! I'd say that this is position of your old friend  
So she's telling that you cannot fully trust surveys  Than what should you trust?! Personal opinion of one of your friends?!


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

mordko said:


> This a fairly typical Russian position, from an old acquaintance of mine:
> 
> "...Clearly you cannot believe polls. Even I would have said that I love VVP (Vladimir Putin). What else can you say? They know your phone. Once again we have not exactly fear but we know we have to be careful..."


Two Putin-haters from Russia whom I enjoyed reading posted under their real names with phone numbers easily available - one of them sometimes retwits Kermlin Russia (wonder how that account survived )

I think you're a smart guy (liked most of your posts in other threads), so posting this just for argument's sake 



> Here is a man, a professional sociologist , has gone to the city Elec, talked to people. His conclusion : the elderly support power, because they never lived so well in their life ( and this is true ) , *middle-aged people are afraid to speak out* , but express their attitude " non-verbally " ( I do not know what they were doing - lips pursed , eyes rolled, sighs - arsenal of formally saying one thing , while showing that you think differently , is very large ) , the youth - " hurl abuses ." The sample is small, but fully coincides with my impressions.



(c) https://spektr.press/tochka-otscheta-borba-s-unyniem-metodom-ot-protivnogo/

(via https://mobile.twitter.com/KermlinRussia/status/717471979092254724)


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

@Gibor:

Navalny is a politician and a populist. At one point in time he flirted with Russian nationalists. His position has developed quite a bit. He is certainly not far right; his team is full of Jews and other minorities. Again... This is irrelevant. The point is that we have a leader of opposition who is not permitted to speak on TV. Which is why you can't compare Putin's Russia to any free country. 

And if you have issues with the far right... What do you think about Putin quoting fabrications by Andrei Dikiy about Jews? Here is an example: 

http://forum-msk.org/material/politic/11513734.html

And here is wiki about Dikiy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Dikiy


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

@Moneytoo:

1. Президент Роисси - It's a satirical twitter account. It does not say "Russia" it says "Ruissa". Why wouldn't this account survive? 

2. Indeed, there are people who speak up there mind. Lyudmila Petronovskaya is a jounralist - and a brave person. There were brave people like this even under the Soviets. They are excluded from major mass media outlets. There is a radio station (Echo Moskvy) and one persecuted cable channel (Dozhd) that allow these people on air. There is also Nezavisimaya Gazeta, which had 6 of its journalists murdered and is no longer able to publish other than via the internet (it's pro-putin competitors are heavily subsidized by the state). And the screws are tightening fast; even internet outlets have been blocked (e.g. Grani.ru and Kasparov.ru).

The system of intimidation works by:

- Picking on prominent individuals and hustling them. Like with Kasparov. So that others, less famous people would be scared.
- Firing those who criticize, like Shenderovich and the whole TV channel stuff from several channels like NTV. 
- Same happened with many other non-TV media outlets such as Lenta.ru. 
- Putting them into prison. Like this poor worker who dared to ask Putin an unscripted question: http://9tv.co.il/news/2016/04/14/224385.html 
- Threatening murder or murdering opponents of the regime, like with Kasianov or Nemtzov.

As a result the vast majority of population are scared to speak out. Even when talking on Skype with my relatives they are afraid because they think talks might be monitored. And there will always be brave oddball heroes who can't be intimidated.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

@Moneytoo:

Please have a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVlegssFI90

This man has been recently condemned to 3 years' prison for protesting. All he did was stand in the street by himself with a slogan condemning prison sentences given to participants of Bolotnaya demonstrations. 

This is how he now gets to see his girlfriend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGQUHHRAf5E

Now put yourself in his place for a second... Wouldn't you think twice before criticizing Putin?


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

mordko said:


> 1. Президент Роисси - It's a satirical twitter account. It does not say "Russia" it says "Ruissa". Why wouldn't this account survive?


Ummm... because it criticizes and makes fun of the President?  But obviously likes Trudeau lol: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...aterloo-perimeter-institute-physics-1.3537098 (a link via their latest twit - the Facebook page somehow doesn't work in the morning, guess it was banned )



> 2. Indeed, there are people who speak up there mind. Lyudmila Petronovskaya is a jounralist - and a brave person. There were brave people like this even under the Soviets.
> 
> The system of intimidation works by:
> ...
> ...


Frankly, I don't see how it's different from when I was growing up (between Brezhnev and Yeltsin) A popular joke of my youth was about a guy who asked a question during party caucus why there's no meat in Donbass. The next day another guy raises his arm, and when asked if he also wants to inquire about meat - answers no-no, we don't need no meat, but please return our friend.

I remember people who seemed paranoid ("KGB is everywhere!") - the scarecrow of the times was to be hidden in a nuthouse, where family and friends won't find you. 

So, what's so different now? A new freedom-loving generation grew up, but their grandparents keep voting for the status quo while their parents quietly drink vodka in the kitchens, scared to be jailed or murdered if they say what they think?


----------



## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

mordko said:


> Now put yourself in his place for a second... Wouldn't you think twice before criticizing Putin?


I would - and that's why I'm not there, but here. I guess we're arguing about different things. But, then again, it's not like I agree with the OP - I was just surprised that you expressed what looked like a very western opinion. Unless you left relatively recently - and my view that the majority of Russian population feel better under cruel tsar is outdated...


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

@Moneytoo

- President Roissii is a Twitter account. Putin does not control Twitter. 

- If you are saying that Putin's regime is not dissimilar to the 80s as far as the freedom of speech is concerned... Well that's true. There are different methods; in some respects it is easier to access the information if you really want to but they control what the majority is exposed to. One of regime's inventions is that the propaganda isn't designed to claim that the regime is perfect. Like they don't really deny stealing billions from state companies and then siphoning them off to Panama or that they persecute for free speech. They just claim that it's normal and everyone else is just as corrupt and persecutes for opposing the government, which is a lie. 

- I left in 94/95 for work in the UK then moved on to Canada. I have been visiting Russia regularly with work up until 2012, at one point even got some bribe offers from Putin's officials. Also in touch with the locals. 

- What happened in Russia was kinda similar to Weimar Republic. They were moving towards democracy, had freedom of speech in the 90s. At that point in time oil prices were $10. Then Putin came along and started getting things back to "normal". Oil prices went north of $100. So, many felt that Putin brought relative prosperity... Then stagnation started as Putin centralized economy once again so that it's all controlled by his mafia friends. It started before Crimea and popularity went down... Right now oil is $40, Russians are cutting down on food, losing savings and jobs, doctors are being fired en mass and truck drivers are protesting, so the level of support is not exactly 90% as opinion polls claim.


----------



## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

@Mordko, "this too shall pass"


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> @Gibor:
> 
> Navalny is a politician and a populist. At one point in time he flirted with Russian nationalists. His position has developed quite a bit. He is certainly not far right; his team is full of Jews and other minorities. Again... This is irrelevant. The point is that we have a leader of opposition who is not permitted to speak on TV. Which is why you can't compare Putin's Russia to any free country.
> 
> ...


On the opposite, Putin is well-respected in Jewish/Israeli media
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/5...ful-leaders-jewish-world/#JGfRWWbm2TtWHo1G.97

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/204688#.VxJvq0yDGko



> In fact, Putin has surrounded himself with rich and successful Jews, such as Moshe Kantor (net worth $2.3 billion), Lev Leviev (net worth $1.5 billion), Roman Abramovich (net worth $9.1 billion) and Victor Vekselberg (net worth $13.6 billion). They are all close friends and confidantes of the Russian president, and they are all quite openly Jewish.
> 
> On the Jewish New Year, celebrated in September, Putin sent a holiday greeting to Rabbi Lazar, wishing the Russian Jewish community a “sweet and happy New Year.”
> 
> “For centuries, Jewish values inspired lofty ideals,” Putin wrote. He said that these values enhanced “relations among different peoples…through charity and education, all in the interest of the public good.” In a direct manner, he pledged “fierce opposition to any manifestation of anti-Semitism and xenophobia.”


Reading about Navalny ... he was and he is Russian nationalist


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Do you really think Navalny should be President?!


> At a political level Navalny’s arrogance and poor judgement have lost him much of the sympathy he once had when he was known simply as an anti-corruption campaigner.
> 
> Navalny’s involvement with the ultra-nationalist far right has - for completely understandable reasons - lost him the support of many liberals. Boris Nemtsov, before he was killed, was strongly critical of Navalny because of it.
> 
> ...


http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/navalny-crook-and-racist-and-loser-not-winner/ri8636


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Newsflash: there is no such thing as a "Jewish media" with a single point of view. 

Here is your "respect": http://www.jewishpress.com/news/bre...lie-of-first-soviet-mostly-jewish/2013/06/20/

Nor do many journalist "respect" supply of modern anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, I am sure you can google for what Israeli media thinks about it.

And Israel formally advises against travel of its citizens to Crimea: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.714235

And some Israeli journalists are not that happy with Putin supporting the claim that Temple Mount has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism: http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...n-ignoring-Jewish-ties-to-Temple-Mount-451346

Anyway, that's not relevant to the obvious fact that there is no freedom of speech in Russia which puts a bit of a damper on your original post.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Worth noting that Israeli media wasn't exactly ecstatic when Hamas murdered kids riding a schoolbus using Putin-supplied modern laser-guided anti-tank missile ПТРК "Корнет".


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

By the way, "Russia-insider" is an FSB-run website with a neo-nazi editor. Did you know that when you decided to quote from it?


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> By the way, "Russia-insider" is an FSB-run website with a neo-nazi editor. Did you know that when you decided to quote from it?


Sure, everything that against yours point of view are FSB and neo-Nazi 

What about Arutz 7?! Also FSB?! (just FYI I know very good who they are as I not only lived in Israel, but also 8 years worked in Police) 

So, you would disagree that " Putin has surrounded himself with rich and successful Jews" , that his very good friends brothers Rotenberg from his childhood?

Another article from reputable Israeli source


> Putin is the closest thing to a friend Israel has ever had in Moscow
> Analysis: Israel and Russia share a common fear of terrorism, and in 2014 Putin was one of the few world leaders to support Operation Protective Edge and was in 2005 the first Russian president to visit Israel.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4752828,00.html
Also FSB?! Or neo-nazis?!
P.S. imho, Israel will do everything that Putin )or Putin-like) will stay as a President... for sure will be against Navalny-like guys... who "transformed" from far-right and nationalist to "liberal"


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Worth noting that Israeli media wasn't exactly ecstatic when Hamas murdered kids riding a schoolbus using Putin-supplied modern laser-guided anti-tank missile ПТРК "Корнет".


Give me a break! So if some terrorists using AK-47 it also will be Putin responsibility... btw, Kornet was used also by ISIL -> also Putin's responsibility?!


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Give me a break! So if some terrorists using AK-47 it also will be Putin responsibility... btw, Kornet was used also by ISIL -> also Putin's responsibility?!


Congrats, you have mastered the straw man technique. Now try to figure out how to respond to what I have actually said. In a nutshell:

- Putin supplies modern weapons to Iran and Syria. Any fool can anticipate these going directly to Hamas and Hezbollah. So when IDF had to face Russian laser guided anti-tank missiles in several conflicts and when Kornet is fired at school buses, it was not accidental. That's how most losses were incurred on IDF soliders in several conflicts.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Sure, everything that against yours point of view are FSB and neo-Nazi
> 
> What about Arutz 7?! Also FSB?! (just FYI I know very good who they are as I not only lived in Israel, but also 8 years worked in Police)
> 
> ...


Like I said, there are many journalists in Israel, some of them are just as misguided as you are. Many are not. Who cares? Support for Navalny in Israel is utterly irrelevant to the issue of free speech which is lacking in Russia. 

And this is a little backgrounder on your favourite "Russia Insider": http://www.stopfake.org/en/is-russi...arch-with-the-ties-to-the-european-far-right/ 

By the way, Russia Insider regularly publishes "Israel Shamir", another pro-Russian, "anti-Zionist" neo-nazi (the name is fake). Bet you'd enjoy his articles as well.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Putin supplies modern weapons to Iran and Syria


 Russia (as well as Israel) sells weapon to different countries.... this is just business.... 
And look at US military aid... 2 biggest receivers are the "best friends" Israel and Egypt



> are just as misguided as you are


 maybe it's you who misguided?!



> By the way, Russia Insider regularly publishes "Israel Shamir", another pro-Russian, "anti-Zionist" neo-nazi (the name is fake).


 Israel Shamir is not a "fake", but real guy who lived in Israel and even was fighting in Iom Kippiur war. I know his views and don't agree with him, but if Russian Insider sometimes publishes his atricles, it soesn't make it FSB and neo-nazi ...
Maybe you favorite http://www.stopfake.org/ funded by Ukraine?!

P.S. You can say whatever you want about Putin, but there is no any alternative to him. Navalny is just a joke and you won't hear about him in couple of years.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Russia (as well as Israel) sells weapon to different countries.... this is just business....
> And look at US military aid... 2 biggest receivers are the "best friends" Israel and Egypt
> 
> P.S. You can say whatever you want about Putin, but there is no any alternative to him. Navalny is just a joke and you won't hear about him in couple of years.


Selling weapons to Iran and Syria is just a tad different from Israel's and American clients. 

As for Navalny in a couple of years... You could be right. Chances are he'll be murdered.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Selling weapons to Iran and Syria is just a tad different from Israel's and American clients.
> 
> As for Navalny in a couple of years... You could be right. Chances are he'll be murdered.


Or really?! 2nd biggest US weapon receiver is Egypt, than Iraq ... Israel sells weapon to South Sudan , Rwanda . even to Iran
...
Every country doing business....

Navalny can be murdered ... by another neo-nazi or far right guys


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Israel Shamir is a neo-nazi FSB agent; the name is fake; he has several passports for several names, so does his son. "You don't agree with his views"? That's a blessing. How about some of his views? How about Holocaust Denial he keeps pushing?


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Israel Shamir is a neo-nazi FSB agent; the name is fake; he has several passports for several names, so does his son. "You don't agree with his views"? That's a blessing. How about some of his views? How about Holocaust Denial he keeps pushing?


For you everyone who doesn't share your views is "FSB agent" :stupid: . Do you sleep at nights or hiding from FSB agents?! He's a real person....he may have several passport with different names, so what?! Half of the USSR immigrants to Israel changed their names and have different passport with different names. I said that I don't agree with his view and please don't twist my words , I've never said that "I agree with some of his views" include Holocaust denial...
If so so big fighter for "free speech". why you deny that people like Shamir can publish his views?!

P.S. How he can be FSB agent if for the first time I've heard about him long time ago FSB was created?! in 1990 there were a lot of articles about him in Israeli media.... and he was a good translator...he translated many books of Shmuel Yosef Agnon


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

btw, Navalny is Mi6 and CIA agent :biggrin: just google it


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I don't need to. If you go up this very thread you will see me referring to this particular propaganda piece that got aired on Russian state TV. And if you google you will discover fake MI6 memos they presented as a "proof", written in poor English and all.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> For you everyone who doesn't share your views is "FSB agent" :stupid: . Do you sleep at nights or hiding from FSB agents?! He's a real person....he may have several passport with different names, so what?! Half of the USSR immigrants to Israel changed their names and have different passport with different names. I said that I don't agree with his view and please don't twist my words , I've never said that "I agree with some of his views" include Holocaust denial...
> If so so big fighter for "free speech". why you deny that people like Shamir can publish his views?!
> 
> P.S. How he can be FSB agent if for the first time I've heard about him long time ago FSB was created?! in 1990 there were a lot of articles about him in Israeli media.... and he was a good translator...he translated many books of Shmuel Yosef Agnon


Eh... Because he was a KGB agent first? Israel had more than one implanted by the Soviets. 

I do have a bit of an issue with Neo Nazi Holocaust deniers like "Shamir" or David Irving being promoted by the Russian state funded media While banning Shenderovich or Makarevich. Then again, we all have our preferences. Yours are pretty clear.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

And I do wonder how many other people have passports in over half a dozen different names... But perhaps it's normal, just like you say.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Russian state funded media


 is not promoting Israel Shamir .... and Russia Insider is not


> Russian state funded media


 and you know it very well... Israel Shamir had his articles published also by Israeli media...doesn't it mean tjey were "promoting" him?!

I have issue with Holocaust deniers , but I support "free speech" , you are for ""free speech" only when you agree with this speech 

about Makarevich ... I advise you to read book of Petr Podgorodetskiy (sure you know who is he)...
Shenderovich's Kukly is a Kitsch, no wonder why nobody wants to see him on TV... he's not Zhvanetsky


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> And I do wonder how many other people have passports in over half a dozen different names... But perhaps it's normal, just like you say.


really?! half a dozen?! As far as I know he has 3, Israeli, Swedish and Russian...
I have 2 , could've easily to get 3rd one (and all of them have different names in different languages)) and even 4th one .... so many other immigrants from USSR ...


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

1. Your opinion about Shenderovich says a lot about you and nothing about Shenderovich. It is false that nobody wants to see him. He is banned. 

2. I am familiar with gossip about Makarevich but not sure how it justifies persecution.

3. Zhvanetsky recently said what he thought about Russian TV during an award ceremeny. Oops... The whole monologue has been cut out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9R_tt4ZaHw


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

"Israel Shamir" also goes under aliases Israeil Schmerlin, Robert David, Vassili Krasevsky, Jöran Jerma, HRH Prince Max and Adam Ermash and has several passports in these names. He has Russian and Swedish nationalities. He lived in Israel for a short period of time but never received Israeli citizenship, he is Russian Orthodox and is not Jewish. He claimed to be a correspondent for Haaretz but never has been; he did publish a small number of freelance articles before he became known as a Holocaust denier. 

Are you seriously telling me any of this is normal??? 

He is routinely promoted by the Russian media, including RT, Komsomolskaya Pravda, Zavtra, Russia Insider, Русское Агенство Новостей, Pravda etc. RT, as a propaganda arm of the Russian state, also promotes several other Holocaust Deniers, and fans of blood libel such as David Irving or Ryan Dawson: http://www.interpretermag.com/ryan-...aust-denier-whos-friends-with-hate-criminals/


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> 1. Your opinion about Shenderovich says a lot about you and nothing about Shenderovich. It is false that nobody wants to see him. He is banned.
> 
> 2. I am familiar with gossip about Makarevich but not sure how it justify persecution.
> 
> 3. Zhvanetsky recently said what he thought about Russian TV during an award ceremeny. Oops... The whole monologue has been cut out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9R_tt4ZaHw


And everyone was banned by Putin! ... you are funny :biggrin:


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

You are sad. Keep watching Putin TV.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> He lived in Israel for a short period of time but never received Israeli citizenship, he is Russian Orthodox and is not Jewish


 did you made it up?! Shamir is ethnic Jew born in Novosibirsk who converted to Orthodox Christianity in 2004. He immigrated in Israel in 1969 and got Israeli citizenship in Airport ,on the spot , as every Jewish immigrant.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> You are sad. Keep watching Putin TV.


I'm not watching Putin TV...I download via torrent programs that I'm interested in from different Russian channels.
You, keep reading far right nationalist Navalny bloq and local brained washed propaganda..

btw, you are talking about Holocaust... in your opinion, do Canadians PMs responsible that in Canada lived and still living thousands on Nazi criminals , include the No. 2 on the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s list of most wanted Nazi war criminals Vladimir Katriuk (who peacefully died in QC in 2014)?!

You are probably enjoying neo-nazi free Ukraine


> At the rally far-right leader Oleh Tyahnybok, who heads the Svoboda party, urged the authorities to return "Hero of Ukraine" status to Bandera.
> Many Russians revile Bandera, born on 1 January 1909. President Vladimir Putin has called him "Hitler's accomplice".
> Russia says it supports separatists in eastern Ukraine because of a neo-Nazi threat to ethnic Russians.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30655184


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> did you made it up?! Shamir is ethnic Jew born in Novosibirsk who converted to Orthodox Christianity in 2004. He immigrated in Israel in 1969 and got Israeli citizenship in Airport ,on the spot , as every Jewish immigrant.


You are basing it on the information which "Shamir" placed into his own CV. All of it is false. "Israel Shamir" first appeared in the Swedish census in 1984. At that time Shamir himself claims that he was in Israel. In 1989 he wrote from his Stockholm address trying to sell Himmler’s war diary to David Irving. The correspondence is still on Irving’s website. He was also using various aliases to attack Sakharov in the press as a "zionist agent" during the Soviet era. At the same time he was attacking Solzhenitzyn in Israeli press as "enemy of the Jewish people". He has always worked for KGB/FSB. None of the information "Shamir" provides about himself is accurate, not one word.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> I'm not watching Putin TV...I download via torrent programs that I'm interested in from different Russian channels.
> You, keep reading far right nationalist Navalny bloq and local brained washed propaganda..
> 
> btw, you are talking about Holocaust... in your opinion, do Canadians PMs responsible that in Canada lived and still living thousands on Nazi criminals , include the No. 2 on the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s list of most wanted Nazi war criminals Vladimir Katriuk (who peacefully died in QC in 2014)?!
> ...


There are neo-nazis everywhere. The point is that in Russia they are promoted as part of their state-funded propaganda on RT. At the same time people like Shenderovich, Zvhanetsky, Makarevich are being censored, Nemtsov murdered and Kasparov expelled. And the leader of the opposition is banned from Russian TV. Is this really the example you want us to follow???


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Shamir immigrated to Israel in 1969, what you are talking about happened much later


> At the same time he was attacking Solzhenitzyn in Israeli press as "enemy of the Jewish people"


Here I'm completely agree with Shamir. Solzhenitzyn IS "enemy of the Jewish people"! Did you read his book "200 years together"?!


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> And the leader of the opposition is banned from Russian TV


 Leader of opposition , Zuganov, and he's not banned from anywhere.... Another famous "oppositioner" Yavlinsky , also not banned, but who needs him if his party last 2 elections got 0 seats 
Your favorite Navalny - same story....he's a joke... 



> Is this really the example you want us to follow???


 What example ?! What are you talking about?! I've said that annual marathon call-in TV show is a good idea and I'd like to see it in Canada! 
And than you started anti-Putin propoganda


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jargey3000 said:


> don't _fiddle_ with Vlad...


The guy was high ranking KGB, 16 years.

If you value your life you don't ask Putin _nothing_


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Leader of opposition , Zuganov, and he's not banned from anywhere.... Another famous "oppositioner" Yavlinsky , also not banned, but who needs him if his party last 2 elections got 0 seats
> Your favorite Navalny - same story....he's a joke...
> 
> What example ?! What are you talking about?! I've said that annual marathon call-in TV show is a good idea and I'd like to see it in Canada!
> And than you started anti-Putin propoganda


I am aware of Solzhenitzyns views. That's not the point. The point is that Shamir is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Neither Yavlinski nor Zhirinovski or Zyuganov are opposition. Don't make me laugh. They are Kremlins projects and do what they are told. Navalny, Kasyanov actually oppose the government. So did Nemtzov.

And if you fancy Putin call-in shows in Canada, should we include arrests for asking awkward questions?


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> The guy was high ranking KGB, 16 years.


 So what?! KGB is not KKK, some of the departments did useful and necessary job. Or you think that high ranking CIA can be POTUS and high ranking KGB cannot?!


> Putin resigned with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel on 20 August 1991,[38] on the second day of the KGB-supported abortive putsch against Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev.[39] Putin said: "As soon as the coup began, I immediately decided which side I was on", although he also noted that the choice was hard because he had spent the best part of his life with "the organs". In 1999, Putin described Communism as "a blind alley, far away from the mainstream of civilization"





> And if you fancy Putin call-in shows in Canada, should we include arrests for asking awkward questions?


 Sorry,, but you are delusional


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

"Worker arrested after last years question..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/14/vladimir-putins-phone-in-with-russia/


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Yes, KGB is one hell of a wonderful organization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnApdY-Y594


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> "Worker arrested after last years question..."
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/14/vladimir-putins-phone-in-with-russia/


Who was arrested and for what?! 
I've seen only link to russian article saying that one of the workers complained to Putin that CEO don't pay salary for 2 months and as a result investigation of this CEO started. Don't see anything bad in it


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Yes, KGB is one hell of a wonderful organization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnApdY-Y594


There was something good and something bad in KGB as in all similar organization like CIA



> I am aware of Solzhenitzyns views. That's not the point.


 yes, it was ...you said how bad was Shanir that he even talked bad about Solzhenitzyns views.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> There was something good and something bad in KGB as in all similar organization like CIA
> 
> yes, it was ...you said how bad was Shanir that he even talked bad about Solzhenitzyns views.


Yep. Something good about KGB. Also about Gestapo.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Who was arrested and for what?!
> I've seen only link to russian article saying that one of the workers complained to Putin that CEO don't pay salary for 2 months and as a result investigation of this CEO started. Don't see anything bad in it


That's called "reading comprehension problems". 

Here: 11:12am
Worker arrested after last year's question about pay
The construction worker who was detained after he asked an awkward question about his unpaid wages has been identified by Russian media as Anton Tyurshev, a builder who was working on Russia's new Vostochny Cosmodrome in the Far East. He asked Mr Putin about controversial delays with paying workers on the project last year. 

He was arrested yesterday and is facing five days in jail, Novaya Gazeta reported. The paper says the arrest appears to be connected with plans to organise a demonstration to coincide with the phone in.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> He was arrested yesterday and is facing five days in jail, Novaya Gazeta reported. The paper says the arrest appears to be connected with plans to organise a demonstration to coincide with the phone in.


 And you are telling that there is no freedom of speech in Russia  Wake up!


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## dogcom (May 23, 2009)

How about this.

https://theintercept.com/2016/04/12/democracy-spring-media-coverage/

I am sure if even one protester was arrested at a Trump rally it would get around the clock coverage from the mainstream media.

Everyone is being duped from the western media including the forum. Of course Russia is a pile of crap but they do have to pay their debts or default on them unlike the US.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...ring-protest-praises-how-police-acted-w203070
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cracy-spring-protesters-arrested-dc/83123326/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...ed-democracy-spring-protest-article-1.2603234
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/apr/15/rosario-dawson-arrested-us-capitol-demonstrations
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/politics/democracy-spring-arrests-protests-washington/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...c13df0-0037-11e6-9d36-33d198ea26c5_story.html
http://m.voanews.com/a/hundreds-of-protesters-arrested-at-us-capitol/3280334.html

... Yep. They are trying to keep it a secret.


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Not only myself didn't really hear about Navalny.... I asked about Navalny my University friend (who still lives in Novosibirsk) ... Both of us used to be politically active....attended illegal meetings of "Demokraticheskij Sojuz"etc...He replied: 


> про Навального у меня информация минимальна


Than what can you expect from average Russian?!
So looks like except some parts of Moscow and immigrants like you, not many people even aware of him


----------



## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

dogcom said:


> How about this.
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2016/04/12/democracy-spring-media-coverage/
> 
> ...


Just read 1st paragraph


> THE DEMOCRACY SPRING, a protest movement calling on Congress to “end the corruption of big money in our politics” and “ensure free and fair elections,” converged on Capitol Hill on Monday, staging a nonviolent sit-in that resulted in over 400 arrests — a massive number by Washington sit-in standards.


 if you replace Congress , Capitol Hill and Washington by Parlament, Red Square and Moscow , you gonna get exactly what mordko is talking about Russia


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Just read 1st paragraph if you replace Congress , Capitol Hill and Washington by Parlament, Red Square and Moscow , you gonna get exactly what mordko is talking about Russia


Bullshit. These people are deliberately crossing police lines in front of Congerss to try and get as many arrested as possible for a political cause. They were arrested and let off straight away.

Poor worker in Russia asked Putin a question because government didn't pay his salary for the job he did. He was planning a protest in Chelyabinsk, a loooong way from the Red Square. Didn't actually do anything. Got arrested for 5 days.

People who crossed police lines on Bolotnaya in Moscow got years in prison. And all they wanted was democracy and for Presidents to change every now and then.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Not only myself didn't really hear about Navalny.... I asked about Navalny my University friend (who still lives in Novosibirsk) ... Both of us used to be politically active....attended illegal meetings of "Demokraticheskij Sojuz"etc...He replied:
> 
> Than what can you expect from average Russian?!
> So looks like except some parts of Moscow and immigrants like you, not many people even aware of him


Lie.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Putin works very hard to keep Navalny out. He even demanded Facebooks sites in support of Navalny to bre blocked. Yet he is certainly known, for one thing he is slandered on federal channels every day.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Putin works very hard to keep Navalny out. He even demanded Facebooks sites in support of Navalny to bre blocked. Yet he is certainly known, for one thing he is slandered on federal channels every day.


Lie. Putin doesn't give a [email protected] about Navalny....Navalny is zero, "nada" :biggrin:


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Sure. That's why Navalny's websites are being blocked, Federal TV attacks him all the time and even his family is being persecuted. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...for-anti-Kremlin-activist-Alexei-Navalny.html


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

http://www.bbc.com/russian/news/2016/04/160413_navalny_fsb_appeal
http://www.rferl.mobi/a/russia-opposition-mocks-state-tv-navalny-expose/27667901.html


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gibor said:


> So what?! KGB is not KKK, some of the departments did useful and necessary job. Or you think that high ranking CIA can be POTUS and high ranking KGB cannot?!


They do many useful functions, but people with that mindset are not fit to be leaders in a democracy.

I _never_ want a career spy/intelligence agent in charge of my country. No way!

If a guy like Hayden became president, I'd (#1) puke, (#2) flee the US


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

Does it matter? Who believes anything that Putin says? Just another crooked Russian politician out to maintain power so he can continue to steal billions from the country.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

fraser said:


> Does it matter? Who believes anything that Putin says? Just another crooked Russian politician out to maintain power so he can continue to steal billions from the country.


Exactly.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> They do many useful functions, but people with that mindset are not fit to be leaders in a democracy.
> 
> I _never_ want a career spy/intelligence agent in charge of my country. No way!
> 
> If a guy like Hayden became president, I'd (#1) puke, (#2) flee the US



james, and what about Dick?!
btw, you can check KGB structure...sure "They did many useful functions"... they did a lot fighting corruption in 80s (as militia was corrupted by itself) or releasing Soviet hostages ... even though obviously they di a lot of bad stuff  .. my point that you cannot paint all KGB officers in one colour
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Комит...BB.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D1.8F_.D0.9A.D0.93.D0.91


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

fraser said:


> Does it matter? Who believes anything that Putin says? Just another crooked Russian politician out to maintain power so he can continue to steal billions from the country.


fraser, I'm not arguing if he's good or bad guy, my point that Russia doesn't have any alternative and with any other President situation in Russia would be much worse


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

He is a thief, a bully, a murderer, and a liar. 

Surely someone as good, or hopefully better, could come out of the wilderness. Russia is better than Putin.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Nobody can come up while Putin is in charge, just like in N Korea or Cuba.


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## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

I have exactly one Russian friend . She loves Putin and thinks he is going to return Russia to its former glory. (She's probably wrong, but pointless to tell her that). 

She didn't like Yeltsin. She worked against his campaign. Interestingly, she said she was threatened by local police and decided to flee the country. Maybe Russian democracy wasn't 100% fair under Boris Yeltsin either.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

There was no democracy in Russia since the days of the Interim government in 1917. 

There was however freedom of speech under Yeltzin, with the satirists permitted to make fun of the government (rather than stupid Americans as they do today), a variety of privately owned TV channels and the newspapers supporting various political forces.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

olivaw said:


> I have exactly one Russian friend . She loves Putin and thinks he is going to return Russia to its former glory. (She's probably wrong, but pointless to tell her that).
> 
> She didn't like Yeltsin. She worked against his campaign. Interestingly, she said she was threatened by local police and decided to flee the country. Maybe Russian democracy wasn't 100% fair under Boris Yeltsin either.


I left CCCP in 1990, so wasn't there when Eltzin started ruling... At the beginning I supported him, but very fast realized that he's populist and corrupted and he was very successful in destroying country


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Another my school friend replied on my question about Navalny and Putin.



> В политику я стараюсь не лезть. Всё это очень грязно,и что думает народ не знаю. Но свою точку зрения высказать попробую. Кто такой Навальный? По моему,"мутный" тип. Откуда взялся не понятно. Откуда деньги,тоже не понятно. И чем занимается? По большому,пытается"укусить"побольнее. А ведь ни чего дельного ещё не предложил. Да и почему все свои"сходки" проводят за границей? Подражают Ленину?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

gibor said:


> Another my school friend replied on my question about Navalny and Putin.


Yes, all he knows is from channel one, which is the exact opposite of the truth. Navalny is in Russia, even though he is persecuted as is his family. All the meetings take place in Russia, starting from Bolotnaya. He is not wealthy, unlike Putin and his friends who stole billions.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Yes, all he knows is from channel one


 I posted exactly what my 2 friends , who are just regular Russian citizens (even though with degrees) wrote. 
What you can expect from "simple" people ?! That what I said before, except small % of Moscow and some Russian who live abroad , nobody watching "Dozhd'" and don't give a **** about Navalny.
was curious and watch on some programs where Navalny talks/argues with Pozner. Definitely wouldn't vote now for Navalny , but could've if I was again in my 20's.. ...
One mafia wants to replace another mafia  Very doubt that a new one will be better


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

and tell the truth, are you really so strong support candidate who "


> On June 23, 2007, Navalny co-founded a new political movement, named "People", which upheld the positions of "democratic nationalism", defined as a fight for democracy and rights of ethnic Russians


" 



> he BBC noted in a profile of Navalny that his endorsement of a political campaign called "Stop feeding the Caucasus" and his willingness to speak at ultra-nationalist events "have caused concern among liberals". He also has been a co-organizer of the "Russian March",[164] which Radio Free Europe describes as "a parade uniting Russian nationalist groups of all stripes",[165] and has appeared as a speaker alongside Russian neo-Nazis.[166]
> Navalny is agitating on behalf of aggressive anti-immigration policies.[167]
> Navalny once compared dark-skinned Caucasus militants with cockroaches and made a video about it.[168] "Cockroaches can be killed with a slipper, but as for humans, I recommend a pistol." Navalny's defenders suggested the comment was simply a joke. *It has also been debated whether or not Navalny's ethnic nationalism is a populist strategy or arises from his real convictions*


The last question what I;d really like to know


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