# New Leader of the Conservative Party



## AMABILE (Apr 3, 2009)

My initial feeling is that Jean Charest will win the leadership

He's  the only candidate that can beat Justin Trudeau.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

We've already tried and failed a couple times fielding a Liberal and it hasn't worked, so no, I don't think Charest will win the leadership.

ltr


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I am hoping for Pierre P.......also known as Crypto Dude.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-bitcoin-policy-1.6399986


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

No idea.

But for certain the Conservatives are at a crossroads. Three leaders, three election losses in 5-6 years. Absolutely abysmal performance in Canada's urban ridings. A Party that is divided in so many ways that they cannot develop , let alone enunciate, a cohesive party platform that has broad voter appeal.

We need a strong Opposition Party.

Lets hope they have learned from the past and select a new leader very carefully. And let's hope that they can attract some star candidates that they so desperately need.

I am not very hopeful based on what I have seen so far.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

sags said:


> I am hoping for Pierre P.......also known as Crypto Dude.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-bitcoin-policy-1.6399986


 ... says alot about the promoter and not the product. The triple "P" effect ... Pierre P, the <fill-in-your-choice> Promoter.



> _ ... Bitcoin has also been criticized by some large investors like Warren Buffett, the billionaire chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, and his business partner, Charlie Munger. They maintain these sorts of financial tools have the potential to collapse, wiping out tens of billions of dollars in wealth for casual buyers.
> 
> Buffett and Munger argue bitcoin's value is purely the product of speculation.
> 
> ...


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

ian said:


> No idea.
> 
> But for certain the Conservatives are at a crossroads. Three leaders, three election losses in 5-6 years. Absolutely abysmal performance in Canada's urban ridings. A Party that is divided in so many ways that they cannot develop , let alone enunciate, a cohesive party platform that has broad voter appeal.
> 
> ...


 ... they already got some "star" candidates. Only that you don't like those stars ... LMAO.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> ... they already got some "star" candidates. Only that you don't like those stars ... LMAO.


I meant strong star candidates in the next Federal election. They need people like Moore, Baird, Ambrose, Rait, etc.

Heavy hitters, vote getters.....all of whom have walked away from the Party because of the incessant in fighting, backstabbing, and focus on social conservative issues. And zero chance in the past two elections of their Party actually forming a Government.

This is a Party that actually voted for Andrew Scheer as Leader. With Maxime Bernier as a runner up. This alone speaks volumes about this Party and why some of their top talent left town. Not much has changed since then as O'Toole discovered the hard way. Same old, same old.

There might be some entertainment on the horizon.

Jenni Byrne (of the Barbaric Practices Hotline and Nijab fame in Harper's last campaign) is PP's campaign manager. Wonder if she has loaded up on bitcoin yet?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

ian said:


> I meant strong star candidates in the next Federal election. They need people like Moore, Baird, Ambrose, Rait, etc.
> 
> *Heavy hitters, vote getters.....all of whom have walked away from the Party because of the incessant in fighting, backstabbing, and focus on social conservative issues. * And zero chance in the past two elections of their Party actually forming a Government.


 ... there you have it. Lack of respect for its leader to start with.


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## Gumball (Dec 22, 2011)

I am really impressed with Leslyn Lewis and hope she is the future leader of the party.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Gumball said:


> I am really impressed with Leslyn Lewis and hope she is the future leader of the party.


I'm really impressed with her as well, but she's too much of a social conservative.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> This is a Party that actually voted for Andrew Scheer as Leader. With Maxime Bernier as a runner up. This alone speaks volumes about this Party and why some of their top talent left town.


Yup, when Scheer sold out to the dairy farmers to win, I'd walk away too.



> Jenni Byrne (of the Barbaric Practices Hotline and Nijab fame in Harper's last campaign) is PP's campaign manager. Wonder if she has loaded up on bitcoin yet?


The fact that anyone has issues with the barbaric practices hotline is beyond me.
How much of a woman hater do you have to be to stand with the practices they were trying to stop?

Yes cutting off someones genitals is barbaric, this shouldn't even be a discussion. 
I think an understanding and supportive tip line to help addressed gendered violence is a GOOD THING.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

ian said:


> No idea.
> 
> But for certain the Conservatives are at a crossroads. Three leaders, three election losses in 5-6 years. Absolutely abysmal performance in Canada's urban ridings. A Party that is divided in so many ways that they cannot develop , let alone enunciate, a cohesive party platform that has broad voter appeal.
> 
> ...


no one is attracting star candidates. In the age of the social media no one who is highly successful would consider subjecting themselves, friends and families to the nasty critiques and scrutiny that is part and parcel of the internet age. Trudeau's cabinet is very weak compared to previous cabinets over the past 50 years. I doubt whether very many would geld key positions in the Chretien or Harper cabinets. Everyone has some skeleton's in their closet and we live in an era were forgiveness is a rare commodity.


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## zinfit (Mar 21, 2021)

MrMatt said:


> Yup, when Scheer sold out to the dairy farmers to win, I'd walk away too.
> 
> 
> The fact that anyone has issues with the barbaric practices hotline is beyond me.
> ...


I guess the ultimate barbaric practice was honour killings. Fortunately the criminal code dwelt with that barbaric practice. I can name things under Sharia law that are alien to a free and democratic society. The mistake that the CPC encountered was the description or labeling of their proposed law.


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## dougbos (Jun 4, 2012)

Is it the party or the choice of leader? Trudeau is effective at campaigning and they saw wedge issues to throw at the Conservatives. They attacked Scheer because of his dual citizenship and the his insurance credentials. Instead of addressing the issue dead on Scheer's team let it linger for several weeks. This made him look weak and wavering. OToole was not much better. He campaigned on tossing the carbon tax and then did a 180 which lost some of the base to the PPC. Then he waffled on gun issues and vaccines. Under fire both of then looked weak instead of taking control of the issues.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The Barbaric Practices Hotline never exisited! Other than in the not so creative minds of the then Conservative Election team.

It was nothing more that an dog whistle for then Conservative base. It actually had the opposite effect. Long time Conservatives were disgusted by the ploy.

The RCMP were supposed to be managing it. When asked.....the RCMP publicly stated that they knew absolutely nothing about it, had not been asked to set it up. Ministers Alexander and Leitch could not even provide a 1 800 number or any details when questioned by the media. They all but admitted it was a political ploy. It was a sham. When asked why the current RCMP 1 800 numbers could not do the job by the media it was umma umma umma.

Alexander commented after the election that he regretted doing it. He knew it was wrong a the time but acceded to the campaign request. It essentially ended his political career and that of Kelli Leitch.

The Conservative election team at that time started off by f'casting a small majority Government. Then it changed to a minority Government based on their internal polling.. Shortly after the ill fated hotline announcement that minority projection changed to a loss projection based again, on their internal polling numbers. Those numbers held true through to the vote counting. It was a fiasco.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> I am hoping for Pierre P.......also known as Crypto Dude.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-bitcoin-policy-1.6399986


Considering Joe Biden already signed an executive order to drive U.S. competitiveness and leadership in leveraging digital asset technologies.. the EU/UK have similar policies while Canada doesn't even acknowledge the emerging advantages or need for regulatory clarity, other than the CRA vagueness who is happy to collect the tax windfall

That article was clearly liberal biased and poorly researched as usual. Just more clickbait for the financially illiterate who think inflation is good for their GICs and vote for whoever will give them a small rebate on something with no long term benefit. Pierre P is a rare Canadian politician who is actually open to new ideas that will engage younger generations


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> The Barbaric Practices Hotline never exisited! Other than in the not so creative minds of the then Conservative Election team.
> 
> It was nothing more that an dog whistle for then Conservative base. It actually had the opposite effect. Long time Conservatives were disgusted by the ploy.


The only people I heard criticize it were apologists who say stupid crap like "all cultures are equal", or "who are we to criticize their culture"

The worst real criticism I heard was
1. A tipline isn't effective
2. They lost control of the messaging.

I don't know a single person who supports honor killings or genital mutilation or forced marriage. Those barbaric practices are totally offside with mainstream Canadian values.

I'd support any measure to try and end them both within Canada, and on Canadian citizens trafficked to other countries for those reasons.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

PP wants Canada to become a haven for so called "defi" crypto and his timing could not have been worse.

A defi "play to earn" company called Axi Infinity had their Ronin blockchain hacked and lost $625,000,000. That is right..........$625 million gone.

Their security for the blockchain was 6 individual nodes to validate transactions........6 nodes.

Someone hacked into the 6 individual computers and took over complete control over transactions.

Or, it is an elaborate scam and they are only claiming to have been hacked.

All this defi nonsense is amateur hour, and shouldn't be promoted by someone who wants to be Canada's PM.









Axie Infinity’s Ronin Network Suffers $625M Exploit


It may be the largest exploit in DeFi history.




www.coindesk.com


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> A defi "play to earn" company called Axi Infinity had their blockchain hacked and lost $650,000,000. That is right..........$650 million.
> 
> Their security for the blockchain was 6 nodes to validate transactions............6 nodes. Someone inflitrated the individual computers and gave themselves all the money.
> 
> Security is a big problem for defi crypto because individual computers don't have high levels of security..........like say a bank does.


That's not DeFi at all. It's a centralized game. DeFi does not refer to games.

That's like saying banks have poor security because some Saggyman Banks rUS sold $600M in a GIC with rates "better than inflation"


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is being called the largest hack in "defi" history, and it was the Ethereum based sidechain Ronin used in the game that was hacked.

It is decentralized and also illuminates the security flaws of blockchains.

_The Ronin Network, an Ethereum-based sidechain that supports the popular Axie Infinity game created by Sky Mavis announced it suffered what appears to be the largest security exploit in DeFi history.

According to a blog post published on Tuesday, Ronin confirmed its project was hacked last week, resulting in the loss of $625 million, which equates to about 173,500 ether and 25.5 million USDC tokens. The exploit affected the validator nodes of the Ronin Network, the publisher of the popular Axie Infinity game,* as well as the Axie decentralized autonomous organization (DAO).*_









Axie Infinity Suffers Largest Hack in DeFi History


The Ronin Network, an Ethereum-based sidechain that supports the popular Axie Infinity game created by Sky Mavis announced it suffered




thedeepdive.ca


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

sags said:


> It is being called the largest hack in "defi" history, and it was the Ethereum based sidechain Ronin used in the game that was hacked.
> 
> It is decentralized and also illuminates the security flaws of blockchains.
> 
> ...


6 nodes that 1 person controls is not decentralized.

There are many chains that are based on copies of ethereum. That doesn't mean they have the security of ethereum. Again you could sell Saggyman GICs but that doesn't mean they beat inflation

Suckers are born everyday and they get scammed by Epic Alliance and everything else all the time. Some people need the government to tell them to wear their seatbelts and bicycle helmets. Some people believe blog posts

It doesn't illuminate any security flaws of blockchain.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The hack surpasses the previous record hack in August 2021 of $621 million from another "defi" network.









DeFi Platform Poly Network Hacked, More Than $600 Million in Cryptocurrencies Stolen


Hackers attacked DeFi platform Poly Network on Tuesday, stealing more than $600 million in various cryptocurrency tokens. On Tuesday, Poly




thedeepdive.ca


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The last thing the Canadian government should want is Canadians losing their money because of weak blockchains security protocols.

Sorry PP.........it is a really bad idea.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

There lots of risk sags I agree. That doesn't mean the technology doesn't bring new opportunity

Imagine it is the 1800s. Some people are going west looking for new opportunity even though you might die of dysentery or get robbed by some drunk cowboys. Some people can't handle the risk and should stay in the east

But should Canada build a railroad west?

Imagine it is 1990. Some people are getting online looking for new opportunity even though you might get a computer virus or give your credit card to a scammer. Some people can't handle the risk and should stay offline

But should Canada get high speed internet?

In all cases the 70+ year olds should stay off DeFi, stay east and keep banking with a live bank teller. They are probably too old to learn how to google or for the risks of the wild west. Some should wait for the training wheels like seat belt laws

But that doesn't mean all of Canada should act like a 75 year old man.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I think American-inspired conservative behaviours are barbaric practices, and an insult to traditional Canadian values.

We need a tip line to report American right-wing barbaric practices. They've caused enough harm to our country already, and if we don't take back control soon, the whole country is going to be destroyed by these backwards monsters.

I'm getting tired of seeing the American right dragging down Canada. They are destroying our country.


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## diharv (Apr 19, 2011)

The Canadian Left is doing a pretty good job of it too.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

m3s said:


> But that doesn't mean all of Canada should act like a 75 year old man.


You're falling behind the times yourself. This should read woman now.

And I thought you would have figured out by now that sags is only half duplex and constantly transmitting. You can let that GIC joke rest.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

off.by.10 said:


> You're falling behind the times yourself. This should read woman now.


Wait a minute, that wouldn't be diverse, equitable or inclusive. This should read "_person"_ now.

ltr


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> The last thing the Canadian government should want is Canadians losing their money because of weak blockchains security protocols.
> 
> Sorry PP.........it is a really bad idea.


Honestly if you're willing to just give your money to some random anonymous person on the internet, that's your own fault.
The government should do some things, but I don't think they should go to extraordinary lengths to protect us from our own bad decisions.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

If I were a voting Conservative party member I would be far more interested in understanding how a leadership candidate proposed to heal the deep divisions within the Party and lay the groundwork for an eventual election win than I would about potential Bitcoin policy. 

Forget the shell game….acknowledge and deal with the real issues that have resulted in three successive election losses.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

ian said:


> If I were a voting Conservative party member I would be far more interested in understanding how a leadership candidate proposed to heal the deep divisions within the Party and lay the groundwork for an eventual election win than I would about potential Bitcoin policy.
> 
> Forget the shell game….acknowledge and deal with the real issues that have resulted in three successive election losses.


Honestly I don't know what the CPC is trying to be.
PPC is very clearly liberal.
Liberals are authoritarian socialists.
NDP are confused and don't seem to stand for anything beyond "free stuff"


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

PP is talking up Bitcoin. His first concern does not appear to be the CPC. 

IMHO his first and only concern is signing up more members who will vote for him. To do that he, and potentially other candidates, will dangle any shiny object in front of them in order to sign them up and get their vote in the Leadership contest.

Anything to defocus those voters from the real issues and excuse him from addressing those issues. 'Overnight' members care less about the real problems the Party is facing and more about being part of something. They do not even understand the challenges that the CPC faces.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> Honestly I don't know what the CPC is trying to be.


Me neither. The only consistent policies they have is that -
(1) they are not Justin Trudeau, and
(2) the stuff the Liberals are doing is "bad" for some value of "bad".

Other than fomenting resentment of libs, and now n-dippys too, for fundraising purposes, it is difficult to see if there is any party-wide policy/platform. I think we are waiting for a leader to define some sort of platform, even if it will be weak sauce like O'Toole offered.

I think that, of the field so far, Charest has the best chance of actually winning a general election. I expect that he will have a hard time winning the leadership, but you never know. The leadership goes by ridings and there are a lot of ridings in Quebec with barely dozens or scores of party members and those folks will likely have a lot of weight. A local boy has a pretty good chance.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

If you look at the CPC election results over the past three elections their big challenge is with vote distribution and appealing to voters in urban ridings.

So what that my local CPC MP in Calgary won the riding by 20,000 votes. How many urban ridings did the CPC lose by a mere 1000-3000 votes? Plenty-enough perhaps to make a difference between winning and loosing. Yet the party insists on waffling on climate change, etc.

The big question...does the CPC membership and influencers represent ridings with huge pluralities or do members in urban ridings have any influence? It would seem not given the CPC's lack of direction over the past three elections.

Today only 8 MP's (out of a possible 116 seats) from urban areas in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver have a voice in the CPC caucus. That is a HUGE problem for the CPC when it comes to effective policy formulation.


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## londoncalling (Sep 17, 2011)

gardner said:


> Me neither. The only consistent policies they have is that -
> (1) they are not Justin Trudeau, and
> (2) the stuff the Liberals are doing is "bad" for some value of "bad".


The strategy mentioned above has resulted in the election of several provincial governments across the country. Ontario is smart in ensuring their governing MPs and MLAs are from different parties. In the prairies, it's simply western alienation. I think PP has some good ideas and is doing a good job of using common social media outlets to appear modern to voters. He is doing a good job on capitalizing on Western support with F Trudeau and F the Libs. while appeasing Ontarians with Inflation and the reason you can't buy a house is because of Trudeau's spending. Be interesting to see if the party goes with a modern approach to combat the once modern Trudeau or seek to promote a more traditional leader like Charest. Once they have decided that the next step will be to convince the voters in 2025 they have more to offer than Freeland even if she isn't steering the ship.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

gardner said:


> I think that, of the field so far, Charest has the best chance of actually winning a general election. I expect that he will have a hard time winning the leadership, but you never know. The leadership goes by ridings and there are a lot of ridings in Quebec with barely dozens or scores of party members and those folks will likely have a lot of weight. A local boy has a pretty good chance.


I don't know about that. Charest's years as PM here weren't exactly stellar. I don't think we've had a PM as hated as he in the last 30 years, perhaps more. For some reason, the CPC MPs here nearly all seem to support him. But I wouldn't be so certain that reflects the view of the members.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

ian said:


> PP is talking up Bitcoin. His first concern does not appear to be the CPC.


He's probably a charlatan


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

james4beach said:


> He's probably a charlatan


 ... part-time charlatan, full-time MPP or should that be part-time MPP and full-time charlatan? 

Ooops, let's start with being "leader" of the Cons Party (or is that CPC or UPC whatever, I'm losing track anyways) ... .

For some reason, I keep seeing PP as a perfect tuba-player though.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

off.by.10 said:


> I don't know about that. Charest's years as PM here weren't exactly stellar. I don't think we've had a PM as hated as he in the last 30 years, perhaps more.


Thus clearly explaining how he won three elections and lead the longest lasting government since the Union Nationale in the 50s.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gardner said:


> Thus clearly explaining how he won three elections and lead the longest lasting government since the Union Nationale in the 50s.


People in the conservative bubble have convinced themselves that most people hate Trudeau and aren't on board with what the Liberal party is doing.

Remember, this is also an issue of urban/rural divide. The prairie provinces have large rural segments. People who live in the country, or in small towns, may think that all of Canada is foaming at the mouth with hatred for Trudeau.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If PP wins the leadership........bells will ring out across the land of Liberals and there will be much merriment and festivities.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

gardner said:


> Thus clearly explaining how he won three elections and lead the longest lasting government since the Union Nationale in the 50s.


That's because the main credible alternative back then was a separatist party. A good chunk of the population was never going to vote for them no matter how much they hated the PM or people around him.

It may be a sign of his political skill but it certainly does not mean people like him around here. At least nobody I know did back then, and I know people from both ends of the political spectrum.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> People in the conservative bubble have convinced themselves that most people hate Trudeau and aren't on board with what the Liberal party is doing.


I don't think it's quite that.
I think the thinking is actually that Trudeau is so bad that pretty much anyone would be better.
So their messaging is simply for people to realize how bad he is.

This is actually how Trump won, and how Biden won, the "other guy is horrible, so you should vote for me".

The problem is multifold.
1. Some Liberal voters are actually onboard with Trudueaus platform. Doesn't matter how bad he is, if he's pushing your pet policy.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I think Trudeau has done a great job, in the big scheme of things.

He actually gets a lot done and has followed through with many of his promises. People complained for a long time about him not delivering $10 daycare etc. Well, he's delivering on that and many other election promises.

One of the first thing he did when elected was follow through on his promise to have Canada stop bombing Iraq and Syria ending Harper's disgusting bombing campaign. He promised it and actually did it, within a few days of getting elected!

Harper worked hard to destroy Canada's image as a peace-loving nation. I give Trudeau huge points for working hard to reverse Harper's extreme warmongering.

I don't think Trudeau himself is particular sharp, but it doesn't matter. He has an excellent team around him and they make good decisions. They managed the pandemic quite well, they took the right approach on stimulus, and the Canadian economy and labour market bounced back very nicely.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I think Trudeau has done a great job, in the big scheme of things.


That's where I disagree.

He's been very divisive and lessened our reputation on the world stage.
He got the big things wrong.



> I don't think Trudeau himself is particular sharp, but it doesn't matter. He has an excellent team around him and they make good decisions. They managed the pandemic quite well, they took the right approach on stimulus, and the Canadian economy and labour market bounced back very nicely.


I think he has an excellent political knack, but I think they basically took the wrong approach on the pandemic, start to finish, and also totally botched the COVID support and stimulus.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The Conservative problem is not Trudeau. It is much closer to home. The problem is within their own Party. Has been for the past three elections and will continue to be if they do not fix it.

Yakking on about bitcoin policy or accusing other Conservative leadership candidates of being closet Liberals will not solve their problem. It will simply make them the butt of political jokes.

It will make the problem worse if only because they fail to either recognize it and/or move forward to address it. Punting Scheer did not solve it. Punting O'Toole mid stream did not solve it. Electing another leader in and of itself will not solve the problem either.

I have no doubt that there are people who vote Liberal because they view the Conservative Party as divided and have the perception that the Conservatives have nothing of real substance to offer those voters.

Just imagine how things might improve for Conservatives if they took all the energy they use on their hate Trudeau campaigns and channeled that energy instead to address their own internal Party issues.

The Liberal Party was in a similar position years ago. They had the collective smarts, the talent, and the desire to move forward.....and they got themselves out of the ditch.

Conservatives seem to be stuck in the ditch with little or no inclination or motivation to get out of that ditch and move forward. Seems to me they prefer to bicker amongst and between themselves. That was very much in the open during the last election campaign and their post election finger pointing.


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## gardner (Feb 13, 2014)

james4beach said:


> I don't think Trudeau himself is particular sharp, but it doesn't matter.


This I agree on. As long as he knuckles down to work he's alright. But he has to steer clear of the celebrity trappings and avoid the rich boy conflicts of interest. Time will tell if he can do that, but so far he has been lucky to squeek by. A couple of rich buddy vacations or a goofy costume or two could sink him.

The conservatives could possibly win just on a platform of not being Trudeau. I also think that making nice with the n-dippies will bite him in the behind because it will encourage splitting the leftie vote, which he can't afford.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think most Canadians would be happy to leave the Lib/NDP government in power and send everyone else home.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> think most Canadians would be happy to leave the Lib/NDP government in power and send everyone else home.


The last election the NDP received 16% of the vote, so 84% of the Canadian population didn't want the NDP in power, yet they are! 
The last election, people didn't trust the Liberals enough to give them a majority, yet they have a majority now for three years with the NDP.
Why would Canadians be happy getting something they didn't vote for?

ltr


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

gardner said:


> This I agree on. As long as he knuckles down to work he's alright. But he has to steer clear of the celebrity trappings and avoid the rich boy conflicts of interest. Time will tell if he can do that, but so far he has been lucky to squeek by. A couple of rich buddy vacations or a goofy costume or two could sink him.
> 
> The conservatives could possibly win just on a platform of not being Trudeau. I also think that making nice with the n-dippies will bite him in the behind because it will encourage splitting the leftie vote, which he can't afford.


Being "not Trudeau" isn't enough, that's been the primary problem in the last few elections. 
heck O'Toole tried to run on a platform of "Liberal, but with me instead of Trudeau", and that didn't work.

I just want a liberal party, and right now the only one is the PPC, which is a sad state of affairs.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

like_to_retire said:


> The last election the NDP received 16% of the vote, so 84% of the Canadian population didn't want the NDP in power, yet they are!


This is bad interpretation. 16% of the vote in favor of NDP doesn't mean that the remaining 84% wouldn't be happy with NDP. It totally dismiss strategic voting where someone voted Liberal but would otherwise have voted NDP.

Say you have to vote for what you'd like to eat between a strawberries, raspberries and bananas. Votes turn out to be 45% strawberries, 40% raspberries and 15% bananas. Does that mean 85% of the people wouldn't be happy eating bananas? No. It just means they preferred either strawberries or raspberries, or both. You don't know from these statistics what would've been the second best choice. You don't know the order of preference.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

MrBlackhill said:


> This is bad interpretation. 16% of the vote in favor of NDP doesn't mean that the remaining 84% wouldn't be happy with NDP. It totally dismiss strategic voting where someone voted Liberal but would otherwise have voted NDP.
> 
> Say you have to vote for what you'd like to eat between a strawberries, raspberries and bananas. Votes turn out to be 45% strawberries, 40% raspberries and 15% bananas. Does that mean 85% of the people wouldn't be happy eating bananas? No. It just means they preferred either strawberries or raspberries, or both. You don't know from these statistics what would've been the second best choice. You don't know the order of preference.


It's almost like some sort of instant runoff might be the way to go.

Okay, Bananas are out, do we want Strawberries or Raspberries. Then if you're the CPC the Bernier strawberries get tossed for the Scheer Raspberries.


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

off.by.10 said:


> That's because the main credible alternative back then was a separatist party. A good chunk of the population was never going to vote for them no matter how much they hated the PM or people around him.


Hmmm ... I'm used PM being the Prime Minister, which the closest for Charest was his five months or so as Deputy PM under Kim Campbell.

A separatist party alternative implies that PM in this case is being used for Premier.


Cheers


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## Eclectic21 (Jun 25, 2021)

gardner said:


> ... The conservatives could possibly win just on a platform of not being Trudeau.


How many times will it fail before the CPC changes strategy?
I can remember the "He's just not ready" ads in the 2015 election and basically a carbon copy type ad in 2019.

Even some of their own CPC members criticized the day before the election call attack ad in 2021, where Todd Doherty, a British Columbia MP wrote on Twitter that expected the Conservative Party to be better: "This is embarrassing."


Maybe the thinking of the brain trust is "The fourth time is a charm"? 

Cheers

*PS*
If the results aren't there three times in a row, maybe it's time to look at what voters are responding too instead of what the CPC thinks?


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Eclectic21 said:


> How many times will it fail before the CPC changes strategy?
> I can remember the "He's just not ready" ads in the 2015 election and basically a carbon copy type ad in 2019.
> 
> Even some of their own CPC members criticized the day before the election call attack ad in 2021, where Todd Doherty, a British Columbia MP wrote on Twitter that expected the Conservative Party to be better: "This is embarrassing."
> ...


What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? It seems that this is what Lethbridge MP Rachael Thomas does best...much to the chagrin of her fellow caucus members.

I believe that the Conservative Party does this because the the divisions within the Party are so deep that they cannot agree on any of the top of mind issues that concern Canadian voters. 

Just ask Erin O'Toole. Or Andrew Scheer.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I think many CPC MP's are just happy to have a job that pays so well for doing nothing.

The MP's all have a taxpayer paid riding office staffed to look after constituent problems. All the opposition MPs have to do is wander in once in awhile.

As one long time political analyst said on Canada Talks radio today......many politicians have no real world skills.

Personally, I think every riding should have a riding office that is non affiliated with any politician or party.

There are way too many MPs and we only need about 100 ridings with representation based on population.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

The toughest job the new leader would have is to keep the lunatics from taking over. And that's not me stating it. It's Jason Kenney.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Response to post #56: They (as with any other politicians and their wannabees) don't "need" any real world skills (or any other skills for that matter) since their mouthpiece is a natural. They got that skill already (and others that're unlisted here). That's why I keep suggesting PP's next career(?) move is to be a tuba-player.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

It is a bit of a clown car at the moment with some leadership candidates accusing others of being closet Liberals. Not to mention membership list shenanigans. Or the one or two wing nut candidates who will no doubt drop off because a failure to get the required signatures or raise the money. But....they will have had their few moments 'in the sun' as it were even if it is not in the best interests of the Party.

I expect a great deal more entertainment as the leadership race enters it's final stage.

We have a similar slapstick comedy routine going on with the UCP in Alberta.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Eclectic21 said:


> Hmmm ... I'm used PM being the Prime Minister, which the closest for Charest was his five months or so as Deputy PM under Kim Campbell.
> 
> A separatist party alternative implies that PM in this case is being used for Premier.


Sorry, translation mistake. We use prime minister at both levels in French.

My point remains that Charest generated a lot of hate for many reasons. The protests during his days make the trucker ones look like a friendly weekend BBQ. But for a whole bunch of people, the alternative option was worse.


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## dougbos (Jun 4, 2012)

off.by.10 said:


> I don't know about that. Charest's years as PM here weren't exactly stellar. I don't think we've had a PM as hated as he in the last 30 years, perhaps more. For some reason, the CPC MPs here nearly all seem to support him. But I wouldn't be so certain that reflects the view of the members.


Charest was never a PM. He was premier of Quebec before they were booted out in a provincial election. Even Charest lost his seat. Pierre P has at least 40 CPC members supporting him now.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

dougbos said:


> Charest was never a PM. He was premier of Quebec before they were booted out in a provincial election. Even Charest lost his seat. Pierre P has at least 40 CPC members supporting him now.


Charest was PM of Quebec for like 
9 years....


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## dougbos (Jun 4, 2012)

fstamand said:


> Charest was PM of Quebec for like
> 9 years....


Apparently Quebec uses PM for the leader of the country and leader for the province. The other provinces use premier. This is where the difference is arising from.


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

He was not Prime Minister of Canada... He was the Governor of Quebec. <-- Just to use another term, I bet there is a response.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A very possible future match up.......


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I'm ROFLMAO ... in tears.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I believe that Conservatives are approaching a fork in the road for their Party. IMHO there is much more at stake than simply electing another leader.

Hopefully their members will make this selection carefully and in a thoughtful way with reference to the past challenges and to the future of the Party. 

More of the same or a focus on personalities could well lead to an eventual splitting up of the Party.


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## fstamand (Mar 24, 2015)

ian said:


> I believe that Conservatives are approaching a fork in the road for their Party. IMHO there is much more at stake than simply electing another leader.
> 
> Hopefully their members will make this selection carefully and in a thoughtful way with reference to the past challenges and to the future of the Party.
> 
> More of the same or a focus on personalities could well lead to an eventual splitting up of the Party.


Yeah they are lining up to do exactly like they did last 2 elections where they failed miserably. They need to split or agree on a common vision.


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## MrBlackhill (Jun 10, 2020)

dougbos said:


> Apparently Quebec uses PM for the leader of the country and leader for the province. The other provinces use premier. This is where the difference is arising from.





hfp75 said:


> He was the Governor of Quebec.


He was *Premier of Quebec* from April 29, 2003 to September 19, 2012, which is almost 10 years.

Yes, the confusion is that in French we say "premier ministre" at both the provincial level and country level.


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