# Traveling to Europe



## beans (Jan 25, 2011)

Greetings. What do you guys think...monetary advice OR if you guys have any secret/favorite palces to see/stay/eat.

So I am taking a bit of advice and traveling, something that at 22 is probabaly long overdue. I have purchased a 'seat sale' ticket to london for 667$ round trip! (179$ plus a load of taxes...)
I also ordered a eurorail global 10day pass for roughly 600$

The game plan, if thats what it can be called...
England:
-London: 3 nights. check out the major sights. stay in a hostel(booked).
-chunnel train to paris....soounds cooool.
France:
-Paris: 4 nights. check out major sites (louvre and day trip to versailles). stay in a hostel(not booked)
-down to normandy to see some beaches and war stuff, then accross to the alsace region to see whats up.
Italy
-Cinque Terra, 3 nights in cinque terra. hike, eat, enjoy. find a hostel there, or a b&b
-make my way accross land to Venice 2-3 days, explore eat etc.
Switzerland
-Bern: 2 nights. hostel. explore
-Grimmelwald. 3 nights. do lots of hiking. Get fit. relax. im excited...may be sleeping in a field though.
Austria
-Vienna 2 nights: see some stuff in some places with some people. Hapsburgs anyone?
-Slazburg region 2 nights: Hallstatt salt mine/lake town...seems cool!
Germany:
-Dresden: 2 nights since im a fan of FTP as well as Kurt Vonnegut (mostly the latter, unless FTP contnues to make money). this non-military city was carpet bombed to ruins in WWII.
-Nurnberg or liepzig. at some point i will see a concentration camp. 
-Berlin: 3 nights. more War stuff i think, some museums. see a wall? drink some weiss beer. 
Luxembourg: 2 nights a friend said ' you NEED to see this city, She is b-e-a-utiful.
Netherlands
-Amsterdam:i am a huge fan of the netherlands tolerance/moral philosophy. i also have been told this is a nice city.
-Back to london for 2 nights to chill with some friends. 

the dates above are guess-timated except London and Paris. Ill probabaly be sleeping in more then one field. i dont really have a budget. however if i can get it done for 4000$cad, excluding plane and train tickets..that would be cool. though not a big deal otherwise. something like 100$cad a day (72eur?)





--the last minute nature of this trip is due to my desire to not work. and the availability of some savings. flying by the seat of my pants...i hop this works out.

beans


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## trillian (Feb 3, 2011)

Awesome vacation plans!

I took my first trip to europe last year and I too traveled by eurorail. France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany. It was awesome! FYI, for some trains, you don't need to make any reservations and can hop on anytime (Germany was great for this!), but for countries like France and Italy, we often needed to make and pay a reservation (roughly 10-20 euros). We had trouble booking a train from Paris to Rome (3 days in advanced) and had to change our plans accordingly. 

The nice thing about winging it was we saw a lot of unique places people normally wouldn't see. My favorite place of the whole trip was when we couldn't find accommodations in Bern and had to travel by train to the next available stop and found ourselves in a very very small town with one hotel and one restaurant where a group of 10 people were drinking and yodeling. Everyone was so joyous. It felt like a scene out of the movies!

If you havent already, take a look at hostelworld. I printed off some of their "pocket travel guides" which included must sees and cheap eats. For the short amount of time we spent in some of the places, it was an efficient intro

http://www.hostelworld.com/pdf-guides.php

If you plan to travel by transit in some of the cities, I would do some research on what type of plan you will need before arriving. On advice of the ticket agent in Paris, we didnt realize we got the most expensive plan which was not needed at all.

Bon Voyage!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Looks good. We spend more time now that we are retired. Last year was Italy for a month and this year is France for a month. Not doing Alsace again because we did Strasbourg last week on the way home. Lucerne is Switzerland is a good side trip. Spent 2 days there.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Have fun - sounds like the stars and planets lined up for you!

I did a similar thing when I was younger and had the same mindset as you - I took the train across Canada both ways. Unfortunately I didn't manage to do it before Mulroney moved the Canadian off the CP line. It was still a very enjoyable trip. No regrets.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Beans - sounds like a good trip! Sweet deal on the flights!

I am considering something similar. I'm working at a job which makes me money but I don't particularly like... I have enough money to travel, but I'm stuck between going this year and not having much $ when I come back, or working for another year so I have some savings/investments when I return.

When are you going? I hear August isn't the month because all the Europeans take their vacations at this time, and it's the hottest month of the year.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Sounds pretty ambitious. Good thing you are young. Spent time in Berlin last month. Very impressed with the historical aspect. Potsdam was interesting. Have fun.


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## beans (Jan 25, 2011)

Barwelle said:


> Beans - sounds like a good trip! Sweet deal on the flights!
> 
> I am considering something similar. I'm working at a job which makes me money but I don't particularly like... I have enough money to travel, but I'm stuck between going this year and not having much $ when I come back, or working for another year so I have some savings/investments when I return.
> 
> When are you going? I hear August isn't the month because all the Europeans take their vacations at this time, and it's the hottest month of the year.



I leave next week. so just on the cusp/shoulder of tourist season. Airtransat had/has(?) a seat sale. GL


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## mesaana14 (Apr 4, 2009)

For Paris, may I recommend you check out the Paris Museum Pass to see if it's worth it based on your interests. Not only is it much cheaper, but you get to cut the line in many places, including Le Louvre... There are 2, 4 and 6 day versions, I think. We used it in September and it was totally worth it!


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

trillian said:


> The nice thing about winging it was we saw a lot of unique places people normally wouldn't see. My favorite place of the whole trip was when we couldn't find accommodations in Bern and had to travel by train to the next available stop and found ourselves in a very very small town with one hotel and one restaurant where a group of 10 people were drinking and yodeling. Everyone was so joyous. It felt like a scene out of the movies!


I live by the Paul Theroux quote "Tourists don't know where they've been, travelers don't know where they're going" The more I travel, the more I believe in this.

I avoid tourist traps and prefer to see the real culture, by being surrounded by locals rather than tourists. It's cheaper and less crowded but you need some street smarts to get around, I think it's part of the fun of winging it. I even find abandoned sites to be more interesting than public ones. I don't know the authenticity is just gone for me once it's covered in guard rails and plaques etc. There are abandoned historic sites pretty much everywhere in Europe

Obviously I recommend Luxembourg seeing as it is my avatar. I don't know if it's on the way but I was quite in awe to see the Cologne Cathedral and all the old castles on the banks along the Rhine. That cathedral took centuries to build and is one of the largest in the world. I was told this is the ugliest time of the year in Germany as the vineyards aren't in bloom etc, but it looked like Cdn July to me. +25C and green grass. If you're going from Luxembourg to Amsterdam, you could follow the Rhine from Koblenz - Cologne - Düsseldorf - Wesel - Arnhem - Nijmegen. Of course there's pretty much something to see everywhere

Don't forget the Cdn flag on your backpack, don't want to be confused for an American!


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> I avoid tourist traps and prefer to see the real culture, by being surrounded by locals rather than tourists. It's cheaper and less crowded but you need some street smarts to get around, I think it's part of the fun of winging it. I even find abandoned sites to be more interesting than public ones. I don't know the authenticity is just gone for me once it's covered in guard rails and plaques etc. There are abandoned historic sites pretty much everywhere in Europe
> 
> Don't forget the Cdn flag on your backpack, don't want to be confused for an American!


One of the biggest things I'm worried about is missing those great spots that are not the tourist traps/in the brochures and travel books. How did you find these places, mode?

I agree with the idea of getting to know the locals. For some of my trip, I'll be WWOOFing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWOOF that way I get to know the locals, stay in one spot for a while, get out of the cities, and it's easier on the wallet too!

Great tip on the Cdn flag... I'll see if I can get one to sew on!

Beans, have fun on your trip! This should be a great time of year to go.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

That sounds absolutely awesome.

London gets an unfair rap for being an expensive city, but there is a ton of stuff to do there for free/cheap. They have amazing museums, and most of them are free despite being a million times better than the ROM. I really liked the Tate Modern. Other sights can be seen from afar, but are quite reasonable to get up-close like the Tower Bridge Exhibition (£8). 

I'm assuming you're landing at Heathrow. Use one of the train systems to get to Paddington. There's the Heathrow Express (£16) and Heathrow Connect (£8). The Connect takes an extra 10 minutes, but check the schedule as they alternate. If the Connect is due before the Express, the difference is really only 5 minutes, well worth the price differential. 

The transit system is top-notch though a bit overwhelming at first since it's so vast and somewhat complicated. Print the map in colour, as it makes a huge difference. Or you can pick up a free map while you're in the transit system. Get one of their transit cards (called an Oyster card) and add on day passes to it. There's a £5 deposit for the card (you get it back when you return the card), then it's £8 per day for unlimited travel downtown in zones 1 and 2. Otherwise it's £4 per trip if you pay cash.

Alternatively, there's a bike rental system for £1/day if you're feeling fit. It costs more if you're not a member, but if all your trips are 30 minutes or less, then it's entirely free. So if you know where you're staying and where you want to go, that might be even cheaper (and healthier).

Food is pretty affordable. I'm not suggesting you live off of fast food, but it was interesting to see the differences on some of the menus for fast food chains (KFC serves breakfast???). Pubs have great food too, and don't fear the curry either. Learn to love Pret. They're everywhere. And you can get a freshly-made, delicious sandwich for under £5, plus they have free wi-fi available.

Which reminds me, better check out your cell phone options on roaming before you go. It can get extremely expensive. Some Canadian providers charge $2 per minute, and $50/meg in data roaming. My advice would be to stop into an Orange or Vodafone shop in London, buy a cheap $20 phone and add on pay-as-you-go money. The long-distance charges for calls back home will apply but they're less than roaming charges, which are significantly less than Canadian providers (roughly 40p/min and £2/meg in Europe). Plus many operate throughout Europe so you may be able to get them to add on money to your phone, even if you bought it in a different country. I'd highly recommend investigating the roaming thing though, as there are a ton of horror stories from people racking up hundreds or thousands of dollars in roaming charges.

The Canadian dollar will also help save money. It used to be $2.7CDN = 1 GBP, but now it's around $1.55CDN, a huge difference. My wife and I spent some time there recently, and excluding accommodations spent like $350 in 4 days which included $100 in train/transit costs. That didn't include the extra $150 shopping as the stuff there is insanely cheap compared to here, and the equivalent would have cost us double. 

As for the rest of your trip, can't help, but wish you all the best. It's a great idea and I'm sure you'll have the time of your life.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

I love London, having been born tehre I think I can appreciate it in a way tourists cannot.

The Museums are great, a trip unto themselves, the WestEnd is certainly worth a visit.

Wear a Canadian Flag, they will know you are not American, not that that is bad, but they still consider Canadians as part of the Empire.

A Thames Tour will take you to Greenwich wear you will find a staue of Wolfe, looking over the Thames to Canada Place.

Be cognizant of your surroundings, like any big cities, crime can and does happen.

Treat your rooms as unlocked, never leave anything of value there, and guard your passport with your life.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> One of the biggest things I'm worried about is missing those great spots that are not the tourist traps/in the brochures and travel books. How did you find these places, mode?


I travel all the time for work that takes me to interesting places on or off the tourist map. What I always do is open up geocaching.com and load interesting sites onto my GPS in the area. You have to sort through all the chaff but anything cool to see is surely geocached by now. Now I can do it on the move with an unlocked smartphone, whenever I'm bored somewhere new I just look to see what's around. There are pretty much always cool things that only the locals would know. I bet there are things in your own back yard you never even knew about. I've explored lots of hidden gems in Canada but in Europe they are endless. I also use advrider.com when I travel by motorbike. I'm sure there are detailed forums and review sites for any kind of travel you want to do

I'd never heard of WWOOFing but I like the concept. I like to see the rural areas myself. There's also volunteer rebuilding of schools and such, and people who open up their homes to travelers. I like to just set a skeleton itinerary and stay in hostels or camp sites.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm Howard said:


> Wear a Canadian Flag, they will know you are not American, not that that is bad, but they still consider Canadians as part of the Empire.


Even across Europe, for one reason or another American soldiers have a bad reputation deserved or not from a few bad apples or an overall attitude such a large organization will have. Canadians have done very well to hold a good reputation and take that very seriously. The landlords pretty much fought over me in Germany and some refuse Americans. Belgium and Netherlands are great as well


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

A buddy from Montreal and I stayed in an apartment on Moselle Island in Metz. Eventually I had an affair with the landlord's daughter. Yeah they really love Canadians!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I hope you have a great trip and yes wear canadian flag especially in France and Holland ,they love Canadians since we played such a part in WW2 and they still remember and appreciate it.I love all of Europe ,have no experience with doing Europe on the cheap but if you stay away from the hotels and eat with the locals I can guarantee your cost will be 50% cheaper!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

barwelle, traveltainment journalist reb stevenson WOOFed her way around england w great videos a couple of years ago. You can find her website thru google. Something like Out There. The british woofing farms looked pretty good.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

financialnoob said:


> Which reminds me, better check out your cell phone options on roaming before you go. It can get extremely expensive. Some Canadian providers charge $2 per minute, and $50/meg in data roaming. My advice would be to stop into an Orange or Vodafone shop in London, buy a cheap $20 phone and add on pay-as-you-go money. The long-distance charges for calls back home will apply but they're less than roaming charges, which are significantly less than Canadian providers (roughly 40p/min and £2/meg in Europe). Plus many operate throughout Europe so you may be able to get them to add on money to your phone, even if you bought it in a different country. I'd highly recommend investigating the roaming thing though, as there are a ton of horror stories from people racking up hundreds or thousands of dollars in roaming charges.


What I do is buy a quad band unlocked smartphone, and then buy a prepaid SIM card for ~€15. This gives me GPS, maps, nearby restaurant and accommodation reviews and info etc. Doubles as a camera and phone

Of course with all the free WiFi in Europe, you could probably do just fine with any WiFi device and a headset for Skype, or a quarter for a pay-phone. Any charged cell phone can make emergency calls for free. Dialing is ridiculous in Europe as you have to know the country codes and what country's tower you're on, I ended up using Skype just from this confusion

$2/min is exactly what Rogers charges. In Europe they have to text you the fees whenever you cross a border. Seeing as EU has no border stops, this was a handy reminder.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> What I do is buy a quad band unlocked smartphone, and then buy a prepaid SIM card for ~€15. This gives me GPS, maps, nearby restaurant and accommodation reviews and info etc. Doubles as a camera and phone
> 
> Of course with all the free WiFi in Europe, you could probably do just fine with any WiFi device and a headset for Skype, or a quarter for a pay-phone. Any charged cell phone can make emergency calls for free. Dialing is ridiculous in Europe as you have to know the country codes and what country's tower you're on, I ended up using Skype just from this confusion
> 
> $2/min is exactly what Rogers charges. In Europe they have to text you the fees whenever you cross a border. Seeing as EU has no border stops, this was a handy reminder.


That's a great solution. The difference in cell phone costs between Europe and North America are absolutely astounding, and borderline criminal.


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## beans (Jan 25, 2011)

thank you all for the interesting and insightful information. I am super stoked!


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

kcowan said:


> A buddy from Montreal and I stayed in an apartment on Moselle Island in Metz. Eventually I had an affair with the landlord's daughter. Yeah they really love Canadians!


Haha! Nice! That's all I have to say about that. 



mode3sour said:


> I travel all the time for work that takes me to interesting places on or off the tourist map. What I always do is open up geocaching.com and load interesting sites onto my GPS in the area. You have to sort through all the chaff but anything cool to see is surely geocached by now. Now I can do it on the move with an unlocked smartphone, whenever I'm bored somewhere new I just look to see what's around. There are pretty much always cool things that only the locals would know.





mode3sour said:


> What I do is buy a quad band unlocked smartphone, and then buy a prepaid SIM card for ~€15. This gives me GPS, maps, nearby restaurant and accommodation reviews and info etc. Doubles as a camera and phone
> 
> Of course with all the free WiFi in Europe, you could probably do just fine with any WiFi device and a headset for Skype, or a quarter for a pay-phone. Any charged cell phone can make emergency calls for free. Dialing is ridiculous in Europe as you have to know the country codes and what country's tower you're on, I ended up using Skype just from this confusion
> 
> $2/min is exactly what Rogers charges. In Europe they have to text you the fees whenever you cross a border. Seeing as EU has no border stops, this was a handy reminder.


I was just going to get a regular quad band phone from Cellular Abroad, you pay $179 for the one I'm looking at and then get a SIM card and pay 0.90-1.15/min for outgoing calls, free for most incoming calls, for most of Europe. But you have me thinking if a smart phone would be worth the money. Too bad I don't have one already. I hadn't thought of geocacheing but that's a great idea.

Is there an extra cost to use GPS? Do all smartphones have GPS these days? Do you just use any old SIM card? For a young guy, I'm new to that kind of thing.



humble_pie said:


> barwelle, traveltainment journalist reb stevenson WOOFed her way around england w great videos a couple of years ago. You can find her website thru google. Something like Out There. The british woofing farms looked pretty good.


Thanks for the tip. After seeing that, I went and found her website and watched one vid so far. Looks good!

There is also couch-surfing for those even more adventurous. You sign up on their website and send out requests to their network of hosts and they let you stay for free at their house. If you want meals, some provide, some don't, but that has to be negotiated. Of course, you're expected to host people in your own home as well. Those are shorter-term stays though, I think you're expected to stay for a couple days at a time, whereas with WWOOFing, they like you to pitch in for at least a week.

PS. Sorry beans for highjacking your thread a bit here! Will you be giving updates or having a blog or anything?


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## RichmondMan (Jan 31, 2011)

Very nice plan for traveling to Europe. In my view, you don´t forget on Rome or Barcelona. It´s a better variant as Bern in Switzerland or Nurnberg in Germany. I would like to prefer a trip across the south countries of Europe: Lisbon, Porto,Valencia, Barca, Nice, Marseille, french coast near Saint Tropez, Genoa, Rome, Trieste, Ljubljana, Portorož, Rijeka... I think the South Europe offers more wonderful places and cities like popular London or Amsterdam. These my tips present more attractive culture, nice feeling of the local lifestyle, great foods, wonderful architecture of Ancient times and of course super atmosphere around the Mediterranean Sea. That´s my recommendation.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> I was just going to get a regular quad band phone from Cellular Abroad, you pay $179 for the one I'm looking at and then get a SIM card and pay 0.90-1.15/min for outgoing calls, free for most incoming calls, for most of Europe. But you have me thinking if a smart phone would be worth the money. Too bad I don't have one already. I hadn't thought of geocacheing but that's a great idea.
> 
> Is there an extra cost to use GPS? Do all smartphones have GPS these days? Do you just use any old SIM card? For a young guy, I'm new to that kind of thing.


For that price, I would rather get an unlocked smartphone off Kijiji for $250. GPS is included but the data usage can be limited or charged per MB for the maps unless you DL them from WiFi. The "cellular abroad" SIM card and data plan is good for travelling, but you would have to use GPS data very sparingly because the prices are outrageous for 3G data. I found a SIM card with pre-paid unlimited data for €10/month but it only works in 1 country, so you would have to find a new SIM card in each country or pay roaming (you get a text with the cost) I can generally grab a pre paid SIM card in the duty free and I'm set before I pick up my luggage

The new Google Phone is sold quad band unlocked in USA Best Buys for $529 and is apparently being pre-sold in Cdn Futureshop now, although the reps are saying it's locked (making the price pointless). The Samsung Galaxy S is almost the same thing except cheaper and locked, but you could probably get it used unlocked for $250. The new iPhone is also sold unlocked from apple.ca for $659.

Things I used it for abroad: Google picture search of signs, menus, barcodes, instructions which explains or translates them instantly, holding it up to restaurants to get reviews and hours, finding other POI and POI information with GPS, keeping in contact with everyone easily on FB, checking in to flights, alerts for flights, tracking luggage, weather, news etc

To me it enhances the experience but I'm not sure I would buy it just for a short trip. Even without a data plan though, you can find free WiFi at many cafés etc


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

For GPS when traveling I use a Garmin 1250, which is not much bigger than an iPhone (it's thicker and more square, but still fits easily in a jacket pocket), which I also use for navigating in my car here in North America. It was cheap ($150) and you can get a map of Europe installed for another $90 or so. It has modes for driving, walking, or bicycling, and works well as a hand-held navigator in cities while you're walking. No data charges so you can use it as much as you like without worrying about roaming fees.

Your trip sounds just right for someone in their 20s. I think of these see-it-all trips as "samplers" to help me identify places that I'd like to go back to and get to know better in the future. These days when I travel overseas for vacation I like to go to one place and stay there the whole time; you go a lot deeper and really get to see how people live there.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I hope you have fun. I'd love to go on a eurotrip but don't know anyone who wants to go.

Considering how expensive that eurorail pass is, is there a reason why you didn't choose to rent a car? That way you could see parts that public transit wouldn't allow you.


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## beans (Jan 25, 2011)

*oats n beans*

hey,

in response to some of the posts, hijack the thread all you want! ill learn something either way. i plan on writing home, so perhaps ill post a new thread at the same time. I did not choose to rent a car for a couple of reasons: 1) trains/public is a good place to meet locals and hear about whats 'going on'...since i am traveling alone with a vague semblance of a schedual, im not upposed to detours. 2) i was told 'the amount of money north americans invest in their highways/roads is similar to the investment of european countries in their rail systems, i can bus where the train doesnt take me...and when it boils down to it 60$cad/day isnt that bad...a tank of gas is almost that nowadays ( also, being 22 i believe it would be bloody expensive for insurance).

as to finding someone to go with... i think most people get sick of travel buddies.... and in this case, i am dead set on challenging myself to be more outgoing, meet new people, gain new experiences and prosper...?

to each their own. GL to all


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

beans said:


> hey,
> 
> in response to some of the posts, hijack the thread all you want! ill learn something either way. i plan on writing home, so perhaps ill post a new thread at the same time. I did not choose to rent a car for a couple of reasons: 1) trains/public is a good place to meet locals and hear about whats 'going on'...since i am traveling alone with a vague semblance of a schedual, im not upposed to detours. 2) i was told 'the amount of money north americans invest in their highways/roads is similar to the investment of european countries in their rail systems, i can bus where the train doesnt take me...and when it boils down to it 60$cad/day isnt that bad...a tank of gas is almost that nowadays ( also, being 22 i believe it would be bloody expensive for insurance).
> 
> ...


All great points. Plus gas is much more expensive in Europe, roughly double the cost per litre, so the car option isn't as attractive. You've clearly put a lot of solid thought into it and I'm sure it'll be an amazing time.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

beans said:


> and when it boils down to it 60$cad/day isnt that bad...a tank of gas is almost that nowadays ( also, being 22 i believe it would be bloody expensive for insurance).


If you drive a car here, your auto insurance probably covers rentals overseas unless you excluded that from your policy. 

Also worth noting that most rental cars in Europe use diesel, so even though fuel is more expensive there the fuel economy of typical rental cars is excellent.

All that said, I agree that train and bus are a good way to go, and generally more relaxing -- the only drawback I found when I did that was when we had booked a B&B or hostel that was a long walk from the train or bus station. But you'll probably be traveling light!


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

beans said:


> as to finding someone to go with... i think most people get sick of travel buddies.... and in this case, i am dead set on challenging myself to be more outgoing, meet new people, gain new experiences and prosper...?


I've traveled alone, you do meet people easier this way, you just have to be cautious as well



brad said:


> If you drive a car here, your auto insurance probably covers rentals overseas unless you excluded that from your policy.
> 
> Also worth noting that most rental cars in Europe use diesel, so even though fuel is more expensive there the fuel economy of typical rental cars is excellent.
> 
> All that said, I agree that train and bus are a good way to go, and generally more relaxing -- the only drawback I found when I did that was when we had booked a B&B or hostel that was a long walk from the train or bus station. But you'll probably be traveling light!


I agree with renting a car, but it depends if you want to explore along the way or just get from downtown to downtown. There's no issues with crossing borders in the EU and as long as there's a highway you can move fast, but traffic and parking downtown is less convenient. I had a turbo diesel and I was doing like 1300 kms on €60 tank driving hard. It would certainly be cheaper for a few people. Oh, and they have ticket cameras everywhere and the rules are enforced differently in every country...


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## chaudi (Sep 10, 2009)

If you like castles and old forts India has many and will cost you a fraction of the price!


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

beans said:


> I leave next week.


This week then. I wish you a bon voyage in that case!

We'll be waiting to hear your market/money/frugal stories; don't forget our souvenirs! 

Have a great time!


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

brad said:


> All that said, I agree that train and bus are a good way to go, and generally more relaxing -- the only drawback I found when I did that was when we had booked a B&B or hostel that was a long walk from the train or bus station. But you'll probably be traveling light!


When we booked a B&B a long way from the train station, we asked for a pickup/delivery. Most of them will do it because train is the accepted way.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> For that price, I would rather get an unlocked smartphone off Kijiji for $250. GPS is included but the data usage can be limited or charged per MB for the maps unless you DL them from WiFi. The "cellular abroad" SIM card and data plan is good for travelling, but you would have to use GPS data very sparingly because the prices are outrageous for 3G data. I found a SIM card with pre-paid unlimited data for €10/month but it only works in 1 country, so you would have to find a new SIM card in each country or pay roaming (you get a text with the cost) I can generally grab a pre paid SIM card in the duty free and I'm set before I pick up my luggage
> 
> The new Google Phone is sold quad band unlocked in USA Best Buys for $529 and is apparently being pre-sold in Cdn Futureshop now, although the reps are saying it's locked (making the price pointless). The Samsung Galaxy S is almost the same thing except cheaper and locked, but you could probably get it used unlocked for $250. The new iPhone is also sold unlocked from apple.ca for $659.


I'm apprehensive about buying expensive electronics off Kijiji... you never know what could be wrong with them or where they came from. I'm sure some (or a lot) of it is stolen.

So GPS on a smartphone uses data, so it's not actually GPS? I have no issue with getting maps and finding destinations using free WiFi, but I don't want to be using data while I'm actually using the GPS app to get me somewhere.

I did some research on the new iPhones, they are sold unlocked from Apple, but apparently, as soon as you put a SIM card in it, it becomes locked to whichever carrier that SIM card came from. So if that's true, I couldn't buy an iPhone here, use it with a European carrier for the trip, then come back and put a Bell SIM card in it. hmm...

Good tip on the single-country SIM card though. I expect to have an extended stay in France so perhaps I will go that route while I'm there.



beans said:


> hey,
> 
> in response to some of the posts, hijack the thread all you want! ill learn something either way. i plan on writing home, so perhaps ill post a new thread at the same time. I did not choose to rent a car for a couple of reasons: 1) trains/public is a good place to meet locals and hear about whats 'going on'...since i am traveling alone with a vague semblance of a schedual, im not upposed to detours.
> 
> as to finding someone to go with... i think most people get sick of travel buddies.... and in this case, i am dead set on challenging myself to be more outgoing, meet new people, gain new experiences and prosper...?


I hope we hear from you about how your travels go. Bon voyage!

Sounds like a good challenge. I am sure you will prosper! I also am avoiding bringing someone along for the whole trip. Some people may meet me along the way but I will be going my own way for most of it. It's too big of a trip to have to cater to someone else's needs and desires half the time, and you never know what someone's going to be like on the road unless you REALLY know the person. Not saying that it's impossible to have a good travel partner, but it's not likely to find one that would work for several weeks/months.

The other nice thing about trains is you can take overnight trains and avoid one night's accommodation!


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## greeny (Jan 31, 2011)

Interesting opinion. In future times I would like to visit especially the Central-East Europe. Many travellers say about beauty cities and cheap services. 



RichmondMan said:


> Very nice plan for traveling to Europe. In my view, you don´t forget on Rome or Barcelona. It´s a better variant as Bern in Switzerland or Nurnberg in Germany. I would like to prefer a trip across the south countries of Europe: Lisbon, Porto,Valencia, Barca, Nice, Marseille, french coast near Saint Tropez, Genoa, Rome, Trieste, Ljubljana, Portorož, Rijeka... I think the South Europe offers more wonderful places and cities like popular London or Amsterdam. These my tips present more attractive culture, nice feeling of the local lifestyle, great foods, wonderful architecture of Ancient times and of course super atmosphere around the Mediterranean Sea. That´s my recommendation.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Barwelle said:


> I'm apprehensive about buying expensive electronics off Kijiji... you never know what could be wrong with them or where they came from. I'm sure some (or a lot) of it is stolen.


If you want new, then you pay the price. I have never had an issue personally but I have read some ads or called some people I immediately suspect something odd and move on. So many people buy things and never use them, I pick one where the person is clearly just selling something for a good reason. I accept the risk of buying used, and if something every breaks well I've already saved $$$$ anyways



Barwelle said:


> So GPS on a smartphone uses data, so it's not actually GPS? I have no issue with getting maps and finding destinations using free WiFi, but I don't want to be using data while I'm actually using the GPS app to get me somewhere.


It uses a real GPS and data for up to date maps and POC etc, then if you have an issue you can always google it. You can also just DL the maps like a traditional GPS. I find there are many advantages to having data while travelling, sometimes I look up the history or things to translate words etc. If I have data, I have all the information. To each his own, you can do fine with a paper map really



Barwelle said:


> I did some research on the new iPhones, they are sold unlocked from Apple, but apparently, as soon as you put a SIM card in it, it becomes locked to whichever carrier that SIM card came from. So if that's true, I couldn't buy an iPhone here, use it with a European carrier for the trip, then come back and put a Bell SIM card in it. hmm...


This is from Apple, and I personally know people who travel Europe constantly for work and own different SIM cards for different country's. In Europe, iPhone's are locked so we are unusually lucky in Canada. Usually it's other country's with unlocked phones but not the iPhone

Where did you read that it gets locked when you put in the SIM? Sounds like something Cdn carriers would do.... but I just called Apple and the said no (I just bought one for Europe, and haven't tested it yet)



> Why does the price of iPhone from the Apple Online Store differ from its price from a carrier?
> Carriers typically sell the iPhone with a contract that subsidizes the initial purchase price of the phone. By purchasing your iPhone without a contract, you can use any SIM or micro-SIM card from a compatible carrier, including your current one.
> 
> Can I use my iPhone outside my home country?
> Yes. iPhone is enabled to work on carrier networks using GSM around the world. Because the iPhone sold by the Apple Online Store is commitment-free, you can purchase a SIM or micro-SIM card and service from a local carrier at your destination. Or check with your home carrier regarding international roaming charges.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> Where did you read that it gets locked when you put in the SIM? Sounds like something Cdn carriers would do.... but I just called Apple and the said no (I just bought one for Europe, and haven't tested it yet)


I found it here...

http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/iphone-news/canada-apple-store-iphones-will-be-sold-unlocked/

"In other words, Apple Stores across Canada may now be selling iPhone devices without a SIM Card installed. The iPhone will be unlocked until a carrier SIM card is inserted, at which time the iPhone will lock to that carrier’s SIM card. This allows Apple Stores to easily keep track of iPhones because they no longer need to be grouped by carrier. They are all universal, unlocked iPhones until a SIM card is put inside. Clearly this presents some interesting opportunities."

Although that article is from 2 Nov 2009 so it's old news. I'm thinking about the buying used thing now. That's tempting to save a few hundies.

You must have an iphone then, eh, mode? Which do you have? 3GS is good or is the 4 worth it? I'm also looking at the HTC Desire Z, there's a couple 3-month old ones on Kijiji right now for $300.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

That's wrong

Each iPhone is tagged with an ID number. That number corresponds to either unlocked or a carrier. When you install a SIM, you must activate it on iTunes which is basically a confirmation that the iPhone is "allowed" to use that SIM card an to tune the antennae to the proper freqs. You can hack iPhones on older firmware but that means you can't update the OS and other possible issues

iPhones can alss be charged in Europe with a simple adapter and are quad band to work world wide


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

mode3sour said:


> That's wrong
> 
> Each iPhone is tagged with an ID number. That number corresponds to either unlocked or a carrier. When you install a SIM, you must activate it on iTunes which is basically a confirmation that the iPhone is "allowed" to use that SIM card an to tune the antennae to the proper freqs. You can hack iPhones on older firmware but that means you can't update the OS and other possible issues
> 
> iPhones can alss be charged in Europe with a simple adapter and are quad band to work world wide


Good enough for me. Yea the quad band is part of the reason why I like the iPhone/other smart phones. I can use it overseas and at home.


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Well, I took the plunge and bought a smartphone. Got an HTC Desire Z. Bought it used for $260, hardly a scratch on it. (New is around $450) So far so good, except you have to pay to download the GPS maps, even just through WiFi. Plus, the maps take up most of the storage space once they're loaded on there... oh well. It'll work for me!


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## trillian (Feb 3, 2011)

As an alternative for phone coverage, I took my VOIP box over to Europe. I was able to talk to my parents for hours and it only cost me $1.15 or something. It was a bit challenging at times getting the wireless router to hook up properly to the hotel's internet, and sometimes we had to "borrow" the neighbor's internet, but I was very happy to save the money!

I currently use Primus. Customer service SUCKS but the service works very well for me. I think only once I lost service for a few days. My bf currently switched over to voip.ms and he likes what he sees so far, although it's a lot more complex to set up.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

trillian said:


> My bf currently switched over to voip.ms and he likes what he sees so far, although it's a lot more complex to set up.


voip.ms is the best I've found

I use my voip.ms acct on my smartphone and on my laptop while I travel for work and at home. I can use any software or app, and the acct settings are absolutely endless. Costs half a penny a minute and the quality is crystal clear depending on your settings and hardware. Can't say enough for voip.ms


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## calrest (Apr 13, 2011)

I also love Europe, especially european metropolises like Paris, London or Barcelona. You create a very nice trip schedule.


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