# Grade Canada and Your Province on COVID-19 Response



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

It's been a few months since COVID-19 has befallen the world. Countries/regions have taken different approaches and responses have varied. How would you grade (federal) Canada's response? How about your province?

I think the prime minister has done a good job so far. Very logical and methodical in terms of steering the economy, promoting preventative measures, etc. I would give him an A.

As for BC, I think the response has been very good overall. Dr. Henry has become sort of a star/celebrity here. Deservedly so. I give BC A+.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Canada B
Manitoba A


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I wish I could but I am not knowledgeable enough to do so. Perhaps the only gauge might be deaths per 100K or the availability of covid tests. Other than that it seems to be this grade would be in the purview of someone who has some health care or public health knowledge/experience. 

My working experience is in an industry where results were the yardstick...not certain if this blanket approach applies in the public health spectrum. Public opinion and perception does not always mirror reality.


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## alexincash (May 27, 2020)

For Ontario I'd say we have yet to experience major economic repercussions from how we've handled the pandemic... but from a humanitarian perspective I'd say good job containing the spread and handling cases relative to other countries.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

alexincash said:


> For Ontario I'd say we have yet to experience major economic repercussions from how we've handled the pandemic... but from a humanitarian perspective I'd say good job containing the spread and handling cases relative to other countries.


I’m beginning to lower my grade on Ford et al. I think his communication, transparency and accountability have been good this far. The situation in long term care is very troubling. however, we’ve struggled since Mother’s Day to get the numbers down, whereas it seems most other (if not all) areas have seen consistent lowering. Ford has been thus far strongly in favour of continued lockdowns..although he seems to be easing into regional choices. Not sure who needs to start taking responsibility....Tory, devila, Williams? Toronto and Peel are the hot spots. They all seem to be supportive of contined restrictions. Maybe the citizens are to at fault?

b- and trending down for ontario


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

alexincash said:


> For Ontario I'd say we have yet to experience major economic repercussions from how we've handled the pandemic... but from a humanitarian perspective I'd say good job containing the spread and handling cases relative to other countries.


Really....the TTC is in huge trouble....as will all public transit for the foreseeable future. famous Restaurants are closing every day.....permanently. Rents are falling....real estate is flat and activity is down. We haven’t scratched the surface of Economic downturn yet. 2 of my 7 closest friends have lost their well paying established jobs. One in IT, one in logistics.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Just to help people, I think A is the response by Taiwan and S Korea. By that standard, no jurisdiction in NA or Europe would qualify, I think. Some jurisdictions were spared much of problem and were not really tested.

Ontario I would rate C+ or B-. Canada Maybe a B. Quebec, a C-.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

ian said:


> I wish I could but I am not knowledgeable enough to do so. Perhaps the only gauge might be deaths per 100K or the availability of covid tests. Other than that it seems to be this grade would be in the purview of someone who has some health care or public health knowledge/experience.
> 
> My working experience is in an industry where results were the yardstick...not certain if this blanket approach applies in the public health spectrum. Public opinion and perception does not always mirror reality.


I agree with you on these points. This wouldn't be a precise, scientific grading. Rather based on a general idea of the situation (which is unique) and comparison with comparable countries, such as European, US, Japan, etc.


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## alexincash (May 27, 2020)

Money172375 said:


> I’m beginning to lower my grade on Ford et al. I think his communication, transparency and accountability have been good this far. The situation in long term care is very troubling. however, we’ve struggled since Mother’s Day to get the numbers down, whereas it seems most other (if not all) areas have seen consistent lowering. Ford has been thus far strongly in favour of continued lockdowns..although he seems to be easing into regional choices. Not sure who needs to start taking responsibility....Tory, devila, Williams? Toronto and Peel are the hot spots. They all seem to be supportive of contined restrictions. Maybe the citizens are to at fault?
> 
> b- and trending down for ontario


While I agree with what you said, I think so many of these rising case issues stem from treating population dense metros like Toronto, Missisauga, etc. exactly the same as "Ontario" as a province. Realistically the major cities have the same covid restrictions as the neighbouring GTA, but inner city human interaction is more frequent. Up in Northern Ontario where I live preventing the spread is significantly easier.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

alexincash said:


> While I agree with what you said, I think so many of these rising case issues stem from treating population dense metros like Toronto, Missisauga, etc. exactly the same as "Ontario" as a province. Realistically the major cities have the same covid restrictions as the neighbouring GTA, but inner city human interaction is more frequent. Up in Northern Ontario where I live preventing the spread is significantly easier.


well, I can tell you the council in my town of 10,000 declined to open the library for curb side pickup even though the neighbouring towns, city’s and a Toronto are offering it. They cited safety and budget concerns.
I personally am in favour of the library opening for curb side.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Canada overall B, Ontario B, Quebec C-, RoC A.

Part of Quebec/Ontario low grade is the failure to cancel March Break.

Quebecs further negatives are their overly aggressive reopening, which is proving a great Canadian example of the wrong way to do it.
I don't think they're quite at a fail though.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It is too early to rate the politicians. We still have a long ways to go, and the next stage will be more difficult to manage.

First, a lot of money has been spent to support people and the economy. All that support winds up by September.

The pandemic could continue on for another 12 months until a vaccine is widely available. Politicians have a lot of big decisions to make yet.


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## capricorn (Dec 3, 2013)

Canada A. 
Testing could have being much better and better support for health care staff. 
But when I look around China, India, USA, it sure is much better here. The leadership was sensitive and trying its best to help as much as they could.


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## Thal81 (Sep 5, 2017)

Canada A, Quebec A.

It's not been perfect, there are things are disagree with, but overall I think the people in charge took the best decisions they could with the information they had. They made complicated things happen quickly for the greater good, no matter the cost. I compare our country's response to others and I'm glad to be here during this pandemic.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

How can we rate ourselves A when it is clear that other countries were better prepared and responded more effectively? Clearly we did not achieve flawless performance.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

andrewf said:


> How can we rate ourselves A when it is clear that other countries were better prepared and responded more effectively? Clearly we did not achieve flawless performance.


 ... but then Thal works for the government of Canada, I believe. If Quebec gets an "A" then Ontario must get an A+++++. Best I can give ON is a B or B- and a C for Canada. QC gets a D. BC & AB gets an A, and B+ respectively.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Not to let ON or QC off the hook, but how much of the COVID deaths and cases are really due to the long term care mismanagement rather than COVID response? There's a slight distinction between the two issues. As the people in long term care facilities are the most vulnerable, that will get amplified. In other words, if they were managed correctly from the start (have sufficient workers, PPE, training, etc), would there have been as bad a situation in ON and QC when you look at the numbers on their own?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

bgc_fan said:


> Not to let ON or QC off the hook, but how much of the COVID deaths and cases are really due to the long term care mismanagement rather than COVID response? There's a slight distinction between the two issues. As the people in long term care facilities are the most vulnerable, that will get amplified. In other words, if they were managed correctly from the start (have sufficient workers, PPE, training, etc), would there have been as bad a situation in ON and QC when you look at the numbers on their own?


The failure in Long term care really isn't a COVID story, it was just the canary/tinderbox.

The problem is people were all to happy to ignore it. 
I had to google the name Elizabeth Wettlaufter, and that wasn't even too long ago.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Looking forward, I think there is reason to believe that if there is a second wave coming, Canada will do as good or even better. The same scientific and methodical approach will pay off. Other OECD countries will likely improve too. Not sure how it will go down in the US, since this has become very political.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

MrMatt said:


> The failure in Long term care really isn't a COVID story, it was just the canary/tinderbox.
> 
> The problem is people were all to happy to ignore it.
> I had to google the name Elizabeth Wettlaufter, and that wasn't even too long ago.


It isn't; however, for QC and ON, that is the focus of the death and cases. 

That's why I said, if these cases were taken out of the equations, would the judgement of COVID response for QC and ON be better?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My grades are

A+ for BC
A for MB
B for Canada

BC got it first, but has been very diligent. They were even developing tests before this was seen as a 'thing to do'. Thanks to BC's actions, I am currently -- fingers crossed -- conducting relatively normal business in BC. To give you a sense of what that means in the economy... _I have spent a ton of money_ in recent days, in BC.

MB has done well too, and I really like their strong restrictions on travel. They still require 14 day isolation when entering MB, even from other provinces. I think they recognized (unlike others) that this was spreading via travel.

While on the topic I will also mention that I flew recently with Air Canada, and the experience wasn't quite as horrendous as you might expect. I am flying AC again tomorrow, then again near the end of the month. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who has breathing trouble, but for business travelers like myself, flying domestically is doable. I've also spent a ton of money on AC tickets over the last few weeks.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

james4beach said:


> My grades are
> 
> A+ for BC
> A for MB
> ...


when this all started, I figured BC was going to get hammered a-la Toronto and SARS. Given the large Chinese population and travel between BC and China, I figured it would be strongest out west and slowly come to Ontario. This was obviously before realizing that very little of the world was to be untouched.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Money172375 said:


> when this all started, I figured BC was going to get hammered a-la Toronto and SARS. Given the large Chinese population and travel between BC and China, I figured it would be strongest out west and slowly come to Ontario. This was obviously before realizing that very little of the world was to be untouched.


IIRC the source for the start of the Ontario infection was a traveler from Iran. That was the issue about having only a travel ban from China, i.e. it was too late. At that point, we would have needed to completely cut off all travel if isolation was our goal. Works for island countries like New Zealand, Australia, and Iceland. Not so much when we have close ties to the USA.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Those that sacrificed liberty for a bit of safety received F They deserves neither liberty or safety


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

:) lonewolf said:


> Those that sacrificed liberty for a bit of safety received F They deserves neither liberty or safety





:) lonewolf said:


> Those that sacrificed liberty for a bit of safety received F They deserves neither liberty or safety


Is that your argument against Trump imposing martial law to quell protests?


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Topo said:


> The same scientific and methodical approach will pay off. Other OECD countries will likely improve too. Not sure how it will go down in the US, since this has become very political.


 WTF science are you taking about? The biased paid off science that predicted 2.2 million deaths in the States alone. Seeding the nursing homes with COVID by Commo using COVID as the new miracle cure so people don't die from heart attacks anymore only COVID. Wake up people it was not that long ago people thought the world was flat.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

andrewf said:


> Is that your argument against Trump imposing martial law to quell protests?


 The protests are a result from in your face in your wallet government & their goons.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

:) lonewolf said:


> WTF science are you taking about? The biased paid off science that predicted 2.2 million deaths in the States alone.


There was a range of predictions. The highest numbers were pessimistic and assumed nothing was done (in terms of prevention). More optimistic ones considered some interventions.



> Wake up people it was not that long ago people thought the world was flat.


Exactly! More recently, some person suggested bleach could be introduced into the body to cure COVID-19.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

BC A+
MB A
NS, NB A
ON C
PQ C-
ROC B+
The graphs will tell the story more accurately in a month.
(Mexico C)


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

kcowan said:


> BC A+
> MB A
> NS, NB A
> ON C
> ...


I think Ontario and Quebec will see an explosion in cases due to the protests.
I don't actually think this is a failure of the governments response, sure they're not enforcing the health order. But I don't actually expect them to be able to, particularly when you have political leaders egging them on.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes I agree. There is already evidence of this in the US


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## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

Covid jumped pretty hard in Alberta yesterday...hope its an aberration and nothing to do with the health care sanctioned protests.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

The impacts of protests on the number of cases should just be starting and will show over the next two weeks. This will be a good live data set to help understand the impacts of large gatherings. I hope the information will be analyzed and used to help provide direction of opening.

If the numbers don't go up very much, then opening up more things seems to be prudent. If the numbers skyrocket, then that should shut the deniers up.

I hope that the protesters all go and get tested. That's what there were encouraging in AB. They have been drop in/drive thru testing centres set up where anyone can go.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm worried about what might happen to numbers during all these protests, especially in the US. It might take a while for the effect to show in the stats. Most of the protesters are young, so they probably won't get sick even if they catch COVID. The problem would happen when they pass it onto somebody else.

So assuming the protesters spread it among themselves today, then carry it for a week, then transmit it to other people... I figure that's roughly 3-4 weeks by the time the _other people_ show up in hospital or get positive test results.

We may not know the effects until July 1.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The latest polls are good news for Trudeau and the Liberals.









338Canada Canada | Poll Analysis & Electoral Projections







338canada.com


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Not sure I would read too much into it, with a lame duck CPC leader. I think it is 'rally around the leader' thinking. Similar to how Ford rescued his disastrous first term (saved his bacon, politically, if he doesn't fumble later on). I think if Trudeau were seen to try to exploit the situation by holding a snap election (especially prior to the crisis being 'over' it would go very poorly. So it is pretty academic how much support Trudeau has right now (other than it keeps the opposition willing to continue to go with the flow). I do think it will make sense to hold an election late this year or early next, because I think the public should have their say in terms of which party has the right plan to manage the economic recovery and fiscal fallout.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Money172375 said:


> when this all started, I figured BC was going to get hammered a-la Toronto and SARS. Given the large Chinese population and travel between BC and China, I figured it would be strongest out west and slowly come to Ontario. This was obviously before realizing that very little of the world was to be untouched.


Actually just as big a risk for BC was Washington State than just Asian travel. BC begged on knees with Trudeau to shut the borders and to insist on 14 quarantines. All incoming travel should have been shut down much sooner. For that, and Dr Tam's very poor initial advice and deference to the WHO, and shipping 16 tons of material to China in a 'kiss ***' deference to the dictators in Beijing, I give Canada a B-. Canada blew it for at least 3-4 weeks before they really started to get their act together.

Like some others, I give BC an A+ for the consistent and clear messaging and respectful approaches to a lock down. We were never locked down nearly as much as ROC. Our big Interior health region has gone 12 consecutive days now without a new diagnosed covid-19 case and it has been at at least that long (I think) since we had anyone hospitalized in any of the several hospitals in the region. We are now in the start of what would normally be a very big and very busy tourist season. Hopefully, some tourists will come and be respectful, if for no reason other than to help al lot of local businesses that count on the summer season to survive. We shall have to wait and see how that unfolds....we are all a bit jittery about visitors from east of the Rockies though.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> Actually just as big a risk for BC was Washington State than just Asian travel. BC begged on knees with Trudeau to shut the borders and to insist on 14 quarantines. All incoming travel should have been shut down much sooner. For that, and Dr Tam's very poor initial advice and deference to the WHO, and shipping 16 tons of material to China in a 'kiss ***' deference to the dictators in Beijing, I give Canada a B-. Canada blew it for at least 3-4 weeks before they really started to get their act together.
> 
> Like some others, I give BC an A+ for the consistent and clear messaging and respectful approaches to a lock down. We were never locked down nearly as much as ROC. Our big Interior health region has gone 12 consecutive days now without a new diagnosed covid-19 case and it has been at at least that long (I think) since we had anyone hospitalized in any of the several hospitals in the region. We are now in the start of what would normally be a very big and very busy tourist season. Hopefully, some tourists will come and be respectful, if for no reason other than to help al lot of local businesses that count on the summer season to survive. We shall have to wait and see how that unfolds....we are all a bit jittery about visitors from east of the Rockies though.


What was the scope of the lockdown?


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

AltaRed said:


> We are now in the start of what would normally be a very big and very busy tourist season. Hopefully, some tourists will come and be respectful, if for no reason other than to help al lot of local businesses that count on the summer season to survive. We shall have to wait and see how that unfolds....we are all a bit jittery about visitors from east of the Rockies though.


You do realize that any visitors from outside Canada would have to quarantine for 14 days. That pretty much means there will be no international tourists showing up as long as that requirement is in place.

I don't know the status of other restrictions but suppose a tourist comes from Alberta or Manitoba, what facilities are available to them when they get there? One major issue for the traveller is access to toilets. Right now, it is pretty hard to find access to a public toilet anywhere in Canada. For example, most Canadians on the road stop at a Timmy's or McD's if they need a toilet. With only drive through service available though, the toilets are NOT open to the public.

Travellers have to eat and if restaurants are not open, where do they do that? Even where limited inside seating is allowed, how comfortable are people going to be doing that?

The point is that tourism depends on a lot more than just allowing people to physically access an area.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Anything where large groups of people congregated and where physical distancing was not realistically possible, e.g. arenas, sports, schools, events, concerts, bars, dine-in restaurants, personal services such as massage, dentistry, optometry. Businesses could actually stay open if they could assure physical distancing, but many/most closed in deference to the health and safety of their employees and many are still closed for that reason, e.g. driver's license renewals.

Outdoor activities, such as construction, never did shutdown, nor landscaping, exterior home renos and the like. Restaurants got creative and operated with take out and delivery. I could actually walk into a Subway shop and order a sub as long as I took it outside and as long as I maintained 2 metre spacing inside. Several big box stores remained open with limitations on who could enter and even some small retail shops remained open. There was a fair bit of common sense applied. The original list of essential services published Mar 26th is here.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

Doesn’t sound so dis-similar to Ontario. Big box hardware stores were closed for a couple Of weeks, but I recall they re-opened rather early. And I think curb side pick up was always an option...(maybe there was a week where it was completely closed?). I don’t recall restaurants being completely closed for very long, if at all. I’m sure others will remember better.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

There were a few notable differences. For example, Ontario cut back construction on most things other than housing and certain infrastructure think. People here were still going to dealerships and buying vehicles (as we did) albeit April sales were way down. A number of sites did provincial comparisons on a regular basis, so one can google and research that material on their own as they wish.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

..uh, not that anyone cares.. but I'll give NL "E for effort"
Currently: 2 active cases in the province, only 1 case reported in last 33 days (& that was 'travel-related')
We have had a grand total of 261 cases, and 177+ of those came from 1 incident at a funeral home way back in March, which an asymptomatic person attended.
3 deaths. Unfortunately, we've had more people die by drowning since the pandemic started.
New Zealand just beat us to zero!


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Yeah, it seems like the main mode of transmission is 'superspreader' events. A good reason to believe that we won't be starting big gatherings like movie theatres, concerts, bars/clubs, weddings, funerals, high attendance religious services, etc. any time soon.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The opposition voted against the Liberals giving benefits to the disabled.

Time to cut ties with the wannabee opposition parties and call an election. Trudeau should seek a mandate from the people.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

andrewf said:


> Yeah, it seems like the main mode of transmission is 'superspreader' events. A good reason to believe that we won't be starting big gatherings like movie theatres, concerts, bars/clubs, weddings, funerals, high attendance religious services, etc. any time soon.


Did you see the massive gatherings over the weekend?

The government has basically given up on the lockdown, political leaders from Trudeau to city mayors are ignoring the lockdown.

We're going to see a second wave, and even reasonable people are starting to say enough is enough. Quite honestly, the concept of a lockdown to stop the spread necessitates a high degree of compliance.

With millions congregating, there really is no point.


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## junior minor (Jun 5, 2019)

I would have agreed, wasn't it for the fact that the globe&mail just released this article that mentions that all went well until recently. And I'm not going to quote what's happening in Australia. 








Opinion: In B.C., the tone has shifted from a soft urging to ‘do the right thing’ to stern, fearful COVID-19 warnings


Cases in British Columbia are on a frightening upswing as young people have grown weary of distancing




www.theglobeandmail.com


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