# Replacing Windows



## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

I think it's time to replace the windows in my mid-80's built home. I have a combination of casement and sliding windows plus a bay window, and they are all original. I don't have any leaks (yet). I've been doing a bit of reading - though not enough yet. I'm leaning towards going to brick-to-brick route because the windows aren't that big (relative to windows in new houses) to begin with. 

Any recommendations on window brands or contractors? I'm in the GTA.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

Can't comment on brands for the GTA but there was a family window business out of Newmarket called Simons windows and doors or Simons aluminum. Very good reputation for service and quality. Not sure if still around.
You may also check out polar windows if they have an office in Toronto. Thry used to be called rayomax. These are very high quality. Note you get a big discount if CAA member.
I have both jeldwen windows from home Depot and polar windows. The polar windows are far superior. Price was more though:-(.


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## Koogie (Dec 15, 2014)

We have to replace some this year as well. We are in the Hamilton area. 
Windows seem to be a bit of a wild west type of market. You definitely get what you pay for but there seem to be lots of shysters as well.

Several old people I know swear by Pollard windows. I don't know them though (expensive). I can tell you Jeldwen and the other "builder quality" windows you get from Depot or Lowes are generally pretty crappy.

We're probably going to use a small local company. You see their signs up a lot on lawns in our town and they seem pretty busy, so hopefully that is a sign of quality. I'm hoping someone on our street uses them shortly (spring seems to be a big window replacement time) so I can ask questions directly.

Do you have access to a "readers choice" list from the local newspaper for your area ? Might also be a good place to start. Here is the one for the Spectator newspaper in Hamilton for example. The small company we are going to use is listed in their top ten.

https://readerschoice.thespec.com/2016/01/business-or-service/windows-doors


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

When you say brick to brick I presume you mean windows with an incorporated frame and brickmold vs inserts. I also assume you are replacing wood windows with vinyl. Yes, do it right and have the entire window frame structure replaced and properly sealed. If the home was much older and/or you wanted to preserve very nice interior trim mouldings the inserts might be a consideration. With the bay window ask about replacing it to a flush window to understand if it is an option, the pros and cons and costs. It may not be an option or something you want depending on type, facade of your home. Sometimes it's a good idea though. For your kitchen if the sink area has a window consider an awning style for uninterrupted sight line and ease of use. 

I am not in Ontario to comment on window manufacturers or installers. Spend as much or more time on picking the right installer, carefully verifying references (recent & long term), vs. selecting the window manufacturer but careful here too with quality and a company that will be around if you need help 15 years from now. There are lots of fine windows but less fine installers and installation is mostly the cause of a future failure if there is one. Read the fine print on the window warranty, and transfer terms if you sell. Carefully understand all details of the installation, warranty, materials, trim etc.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

twa2w said:


> Can't comment on brands for the GTA but there was a family window business out of Newmarket called Simons windows and doors or Simons aluminum. Very good reputation for service and quality. Not sure if still around.
> You may also check out polar windows if they have an office in Toronto. Thry used to be called rayomax. These are very high quality. Note you get a big discount if CAA member.
> I have both jeldwen windows from home Depot and polar windows. The polar windows are far superior. Price was more though:-(.


Thanks. Will check Simons out. Doesn't look like Polar has operations in Ontario.



RBull said:


> When you say brick to brick I presume you mean windows with an incorporated frame and brickmold vs inserts. I also assume you are replacing wood windows with vinyl. Yes, do it right and have the entire window frame structure replaced and properly sealed. If the home was much older and/or you wanted to preserve very nice interior trim mouldings the inserts might be a consideration. With the bay window ask about replacing it to a flush window to understand if it is an option, the pros and cons and costs. It may not be an option or something you want depending on type, facade of your home. Sometimes it's a good idea though. For your kitchen if the sink area has a window consider an awning style for uninterrupted sight line and ease of use.


Yes, I would like to replace the entire frame. My house is mid-80s so there's nothing special at all about the architecture of the windows. I don't want to lose any window area because they are already relatively small (compared to my old house which was built in 2007), and my house is somewhat dark



> I am not in Ontario to comment on window manufacturers or installers. Spend as much or more time on picking the right installer, carefully verifying references (recent & long term), vs. selecting the window manufacturer but careful here too with quality and a company that will be around if you need help 15 years from now. There are lots of fine windows but less fine installers and installation is mostly the cause of a future failure if there is one. Read the fine print on the window warranty, and transfer terms if you sell. Carefully understand all details of the installation, warranty, materials, trim etc.


Finding a contractor is the part that scares me. Like any other trade, there are way too many shady or low-quality contractors.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

SW20 MR2 said:


> Yes, I would like to replace the entire frame. My house is mid-80s so there's nothing special at all about the architecture of the windows. I don't want to lose any window area because they are already relatively small (compared to my old house which was built in 2007), and my house is somewhat dark
> 
> 
> 
> Finding a contractor is the part that scares me. Like any other trade, there are way too many shady or low-quality contractors.


Good choice, as inserts will reduce the available glass area a bit. If your windows are small now and place is too dark you could consider enlarging the opening at the time of install. Easiest and cheapest way is to make them taller by bringing them closer to the floor if aesthetically/practically that works, and you have an exterior easily allowing it. (not brick etc) Making them wider is $$$ due to changing the header and drywall work. 

You're wise to be careful finding/evaluating the actual contractor who will do the work and be responsible. (not a sub)

G/L


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## TomB19 (Sep 24, 2015)

I wouldn't go with an insert either, but not because of the reduced light. I don't think there was a single window installed well, anywhere on the planet, in the 1980s.

I have a bunch of old houses so I've replaced my share of windows and it makes a tremendous improvement in every case. Back in the 80s, they would install the window and then jam fiberglass as tightly as they could into the gap between the casing and the framing. They took poor insulation and made it far worse. In most of those old homes, you can feel a draft coming out from behind the window trim on a windy day. It's ridiculous.

IMO, the windows need to be removed, the rotting bottom framing from the lousy install needs to be corrected, and a new window installed with the proper water proof membrane and low expansion foam insulation. The nice new window will be twice as good as the old window but that's a small portion of the improvement.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

Agree - replace the old frames as well. There is usually a lot of air leakage around the old frames - when they install new ones they will use spray foam to stop that. Also, if you have wood windows of that age, there could be hidden rot in the frames that you can't see.

At one time vinyl windows were considered the low end of the quality scale, but there was a lot of improvement in their material and design in the 80's & 90's. They arena the material for choice for most homes. I don't know what the standard recommendation is in the GTA, on the edge of Ontario's banana belt. In Ottawa the general practice is double-thermopane, low-E glass. But one of the difficulties with this "standard practice", is that it is typically applied regardless of the orientation of the building. When we were replacing our windows we spent extra for a triple glazed bay window that faces north, and have been very happy we did.


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## SW20 MR2 (Dec 18, 2010)

I haven't done any indepth research yet, but what makes a good window vs a bad one? I've also heard people recommend that you don't spend the money on the double/triple-whatchamacallit because the energy savings will not come anywhere near the extra cost incurred from upgrading the windows.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Sounds like the choice could be a bit complicated...
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/10/how-to-choose-replacement-windows/index.htm
http://news.nationalpost.com/homes/mike-holmes-forecasting-toasty-warm-days-ahead


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

SW20 MR2 said:


> I haven't done any indepth research yet, but what makes a good window vs a bad one? I've also heard people recommend that you don't spend the money on the double/triple-whatchamacallit because the energy savings will not come anywhere near the extra cost incurred from upgrading the windows.


Just going by those articles I found... it sounds like some of these options (Low-E) may be worth paying for due to the heat efficiency. It's also a bit difficult to interpret American written articles since just about anything in Canada is probably an "extremely cold climate".

Does anyone know of a good web site for windows education, relevant to the Canadian climate? The choice of options depends a lot on the climate.


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

The OP has already stated he is going to do the right thing and replace with full frame windows and not inserts, as I also suggested up thread. 

James4B, no reputable window dealer is going to offer/sell windows without LowE coating and without argon or equivalent gas for home replacement windows, and it is code in most all jurisdictions for new construction (possibly even for replacements in some places). The added cost ~10% will likely be recouped in several years of heating/cooling seasons and the home will be more comfortable. For resale a future buyer will expect this from replacement windows. 

Good manufacturers will have their windows tested and certified with ratings for overall energy efficiency, water & air infiltration, strength. Look for energy ratings in the low to mid 30's. This is a place to start to learn some more. http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/products/categories/fenestration/13939


Triple glazing (~+20% cost) might be appropriate if noise is an issue or located in a colder region of country and on windows particularly oriented to the north & east, or someone simply wants better and is less concerned with return on value. Rough R values for windows are R2 double glaze(no LEA), R4 double with LEA, R5-6 triple with LEA. So compared to the wall insulation values ranging R12-R30 depending on age/construction method windows are a huge weak point, so gains are harder come by. New inert gases are being offered more recently so there may be some options there I'm not current with. Biggest factor is properly installing and sealing them well. 

Window type is also a factor and casements will always perform better in wind, water infiltration and energy tests, but the difference is not huge. Single hung verticals next followed by horizontal sliders. 

A good window vs a bad one- many things- quality and sealing of vinyl extrusions, is frame incorporated (1 piece) or pressed/pounded on (2 pc) quality, number and type of materials of closers, locks, cranks, screws arms, spacer type between glass, quality & number of gaskets or seals/fins, amount of fill % of inert gas between glazings, ease of use, warranty and fine print to name some. 

To the OP if your windows are small in the bedroom you may have to consider the available opening area of the window if they do not meet your current building egress codes, although if they don't now identical replacements may be allowable, but necessarily safe.

FYI, I worked in the industry retailing and offering installing services for years in my phase down career before retiring, representing a leading manufacturer in this region.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

A number of years ago, on advice, we replaced our Vancouver single pane LR picture windows with low E sealed units. Just the glass (wood frame). This was a room that faced west and got very warm in the summer. We did in fact notice a difference after installation. So much so that we we installed a few skylights we went with low E variants. 

I purchased and installed a few Loewen wood frame replacement windows in our raised basement. Very pleased with the windows and VERY pleased with the service. After five years or so one of the window seals broke. I emailed Loewen. The responded within 24 hours with confirmation of my purchase and warranty. They sent a service tech out to replace the sealed unit. I had to pay a minor install charge...I think it was about $35 at the time. It was replaced within two weeks.


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## carol palmer (Jul 12, 2016)

I recently got windows installed for my new extended room, taking the help of Clera windows and doors (https://www.clerawindows.com/ottawa). They are a replacement manufacturer and installer. If I'm not wrong, the free estimate offer and a 50% off(all windows and door products) on buying a window, still stands. Do check for reviews too. It's too early for me to give a feedback about the efficiency of the windows since it's just 3 months since I got them installed.


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