# Anyone with tips for finding a good realtor?



## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

So I'm in a bit of an unfortunate position right now. 

I purchased a new home back in February and took possession Mid-April. I put my condo up on the market at the end of February and it still hasn't sold, so now I'm supporting both mortgages...not quite what I was hoping for. 

My reatlor went on and on how confident she was we could sell my condo in 2 weeks and yet, I've had about 4 showings the entire time it's been up. It's not a run-down place by any means and in a pretty good location with 2 underground stalls, a nice amenities center, etc... I don't think I'm overpriced on it either. 

Anyway, her contract was up May 1st so I think I might look elsewhere. She pretty much seems to be doing nothing but texting me if I get a showing to let me know the time and then doesn't even follow up on it to let me know anything about how it went. 

Is it possible to have two realtors working for you - I assume not, but yet sometimes I see listings with like four realtors on the page. 

I'd really like to get this sold ASAP and going into summer has me a bit worried.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

The realtors are advertising MLS listings that they think are saleable. They have been listed by one realtor.

Picking a realtor is like hiring any professional.
- have they proven track record in comparable properties
- are they generally successful among their peers
- can you interview other clients
- what is their plan for selling with expenses and specifics


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

That's really unfortunate. I have a friend who's having a really hard time selling his house as well.

Where is your condo located anyway? A few markets are in decline and current stats (particularly prices) may not be good measured of current going price.


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## w0nger (Mar 15, 2010)

What city are you in? this would make all the difference for us to know...


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

w0nger said:


> What city are you in? this would make all the difference for us to know...


Thanks for the replies. Okay, I thought you could only use one realtor, but was a bit confused over why have more than one listing. 

I'm in Edmonton and it's a 1 bedroom + 1 den (1.5 baths). Here's the MLS link for area, etc if anyone knows Edmonton. http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12862894&PidKey=796574081

It's an 18+ building and pretty well-kept. We've removed some of the furniture since those pictures were taken (and taken down the horrible bedroom blinds with sheet), so it looks a lot better as it stands now I think. I'll hopefully get new pictures taken with a new realtor. 

If I was going to put it up on Kijiji myself, how much should one allow for the buyer's realtor to take when setting the price? If I could sell it myself, I could drop the price a bit lower and that may help out as well.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

The pictures are not the problem (for the most part, although I don't know what were you thinking when you allowed the picture of brown something over the bed, treadmil and the bathroom which make it look extremely tiny, you do not need to show every room, you just need to show the photos which will get the potential buyers in the door). Most other photos are fine (other than the bottom bedroom image).
Obviously the agent you worked with didn't do the job for you, how much was her commission supposed to be? What I would do is re list again but this time with the agent that is either flat fee or reduced commission, calculate how much less you would pay in commission in comparison to your original agent and reduce the selling price by the difference. If that doesn't work reduce the price again in two weeks. 
If you are getting no interest at all most likely you are overpriced.
From the pictures I actually think the condo looks pretty nice, both your unit and the building (I just can't get the brown sheet over the windo erazed from my memory ;-)


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## mrbizi (Dec 19, 2009)

Your property looks nice. 

This could only mean:

1. Are you offering the standard 2.5% commission to the buyers agent? If you are not offering the same rate as other sellers are offering your property will take longer to sell or may not sell at all.

And/or

2. The property is overpriced. Did you review the comparables with your agent when you came up with your asking price?


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for the replies and yes, that sheet was horrid, ugh, I should have taken that down before those first pictures. The new ones will be better and the treadmill is gone, alone with the book case as well and the table is now moved to the den, so the entire kitchen looks massive. 

Hmmm, so this is probably really bad, but I don't even know what commission we're offering the buyer's agent? My realtor didn't discuss that with me at all? I wonder if she's offering very little - that wouldn't surprise me at all actually, this is a really good point. I thought it was standard and they took their own set fee? Or no?

In terms of comparables, here are some others in my building. Mine also has the two under ground stalls, so hopefully that will help me. 

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12795276&PidKey=-401303336
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12714949&PidKey=1193607338
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13039280&PidKey=1678625717
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12738338&PidKey=-2124610206
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13115135&PidKey=-1683023901

So I think I'm pretty okay priced? When we first priced it we compared and she said we were pretty much on par with the others (at that time) - but that was a few months ago. 

Hopefully relisting it back on MLS may help.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

All you need to know: http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/why-you-cant-trust-real-estate-agents-when-buying-a-house/


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## mrbizi (Dec 19, 2009)

Op:

Yes, check with your realtor, what commission are you offering the buyers agent. Make sure it's at least equal to the usual rate offered in your market. If it's lower even by a small amount, e.g. .25%, the agents will pass over your property. 

With regards to the comparables, you need to look at primarily SOLD comparables and not what's currently for sale. Ask your realtor to provide you with this info and review this with her. Also, find out from her the typical DOM (days on the market) for your property in your market. You are likely over the average Dom , but check anyway. 

You will likely need to do a price reduction, by how much, the SOLD comparables will tell you. While you're at it tell your agent you want it relisted (this resets your Dom to 0), a minor cosmetic effect, but it could help as it makes your property look "fresher".


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for the replies - that was an interesting read.  I It's good for me as I can be a little too gullible and believe what an agent would tell me. 

I think I am going to go forward and get a new agent. This last one just doesn't do anything at all, so I'm going to call a few tomorrow and will go through the process again. I'll make sure they look at the recent solds for this last month - we did do that when we originally listed at the start and we did seem to be in line with everything else - possibly a bit high, but we dropped down 5k since then.


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## NotMe (Jan 10, 2011)

Just make sure the previous realtor officially gives up rights to the commission. You asked if you can hire more than one realtor; I'm sure you can but like any other employee you'd have to pay them each the commission.

It's not unheard of for realtors to sue previous clients for unofficially using another realtor to sell their property, and not paying the first realtor. There's some valid justification for this (think of the realtor who does their job and spends money advertising the property, only for the client to use his cousin's brothers' daughter who's just starting out and only charged half the commission).


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

The commission for the selling and buying agents should be in your listing paperwork, just reread it to refresh your memory.

Price will be your biggest driving force to sell quick.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Edmonton's market has been pretty soft of late, and prices are falling. Two years ago, nothing sold under 100k, now there are plenty. My guess would be your price is to high, especially for a 1+ bedroom place. Looking at the Solds is the true price barometer, as others have already stated. 

It's more of a buyer's market right now.

On the plus side, rents are at a premium right now...you could get a pretty penny for that place and hold out for prices and demand to recover.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Just a Guy said:


> Edmonton's market has been pretty soft of late, and prices are falling. Two years ago, nothing sold under 100k, now there are plenty. My guess would be your price is to high, especially for a 1+ bedroom place. Looking at the Solds is the true price barometer, as others have already stated.
> 
> It's more of a buyer's market right now.
> 
> On the plus side, rents are at a premium right now...you could get a pretty penny for that place and hold out for prices and demand to recover.


This I'm not so sure of though. 

Right now with 120k in the mortgage my monthly payment is $580, but I want most of that 120k out to put down on my new place (I have a HELOC until it sells). 

Condo fees are $350, taxes are about $150, so all in all, it is almost 1100 with all that money sunk into it...so I'm guessing it would be 1300-1400 if I withdrew it out. You think I could rent for that much? 

I spoke to the realtor today and basically told her I was thinking of using someone else. She got pretty worried as I'm pretty sure her contract is up (she's re-emailing me the original - I could swear she never gave me a copy). 

Anyway, we are giving standard commission to the buyer's side so that's good. She said that it will be about price and I may have to come lower. Basically, 'it's not worth losing a sale over 2-5k'...she seems willing to work with me on her side of the commission if I do have to decrease. 

We're going to take new pictures of the place on Wednesday and relist fresh on the system right away so hopefully that will get things moving again and open houses starting on the weekends as well.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

ShannonC said:


> I spoke to the realtor today and basically told her I was thinking of using someone else. She got pretty worried as I'm pretty sure her contract is up (she's re-emailing me the original - I could swear she never gave me a copy).
> 
> Anyway, we are giving standard commission to the buyer's side so that's good. She said that it will be about price and I may have to come lower. Basically, 'it's not worth losing a sale over 2-5k'...she seems willing to work with me on her side of the commission if I do have to decrease.
> 
> We're going to take new pictures of the place on Wednesday and relist fresh on the system right away so hopefully that will get things moving again and open houses starting on the weekends as well.


Let me see if I understand it correctly.
1) You know nothing about the contract, when it expires, what commissions you are paying to whom, what other conditions are there. You may not even have seen it other than a split second when you signed it.
2) You are not happy with your agent.
3) You are signing another contract with the same agent you are not happy with.
3) You are now happy because "she *seems* to be willing to work on her side of commissions".

Am I right so far?

After all the advice given here (and everything that is available on the net) you are still willing to pay thousands of dollars in commissions to the agent that has done nothing for you for the duration of the first contract?

You are an easy prey ;-)


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

As the above comment suggests, you may not make a good landlord either. You have to treat it as a business or you'll get into trouble. 

As for rent, do your condo fees cover some utilities? A quick look on kijiji shows me 1 bed places, no den, listed at 1100/month plus utilities. Even if you took a small loss (100-200/month) that would probably only amount to the principal pay down so you'd really not be losing anything. Plus it would be a tax write off, and you'd probably get capital appreciation of more than that as the market recovers. If you have utilities, you may hit your numbers. The only way to really is to place an ad and see what happens (just like the only way to know the value of your place is to sell it, not list it).

The nice part is you can advertise it as a rental and pretend your stuff belongs to a renter when you show it to screen tenants. No one says you actually need to rent it to anyone. So you can try it out to see if anyone bites for free. 

Edmonton, in my opinion, is in a boom (though not in the media) and demand for housing will increase in the next few years.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

For best results when selling, hold your agent's feet to the hire and take an active role in the process. If you just sit passively and wait, nothing will happen. You need to bug them, place phone calls, ask for status updates, ask for their plans the coming week, lower the price, re-photograph, relist, lower the price, fix up the inside if need be. No holds barred. Every month the place is empty you're losing money that can never be recovered. I know you know some of these things already but I would recommend you take this approach. And don't waste time renting. You want the place sold, from what I'm reading here.

My opinion.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for the replies. Yeah, unfortunately I am easy prey and she knew it.... I'm just not educated enough and she seems to not fully come out and tell me things, but dance around the truth. 

Even when I called her last night, she wouldn't tell me when the listing expired. 

Today's brought on more though. I did dig up her contract and it expires May 27th, so I do still have to stay with her for some time. 

She told me on the phone last night that we were giving 'standard commission' to the buyer's realtor. 

But, I spoke with the second realtor I consulted with and he said when he looked at the listing on his side, he said I'm not and it's much lower than normal. He couldn't tell me what it was or many details since he said it was against the code of ethics.... I believe, if I'm reading the contract right, the rate is 3.5% of the first 100k and 1.5% for the remaining. 

I tried to look online, but wasn't really getting a definitive answer. What is the normal rate for buyer's side realtors? That is one thing that would totally make sense - if we're offering way less, buyer's realtors will turn their clients away from it. 

Additionally, she apparently has comments on the listing (for realtors to see, not public) that are out of date and aren't helping the situation. So I don't think I will relist with her. From what the other realtor told me today, if I relist with her, she'll have another 3 months with me in a contract...which I don't want. It's too bad, I think it would help to relist it now, but I don't think that 3 more months with her is wise - you're right, I'm not happy and it wouldn't be wise. I didn't realize last night that relisting basically renews the full contract. 

I'm so new to all of this and it's scary because I'm not sure who to trust at this point. 

I think I'd really prefer to just sell over rent - unless it was months that I was sitting on it. My brother is living in it temporarily and paying me $600/month, so that helps out, but I'm still out about 500 from that, plus the $500 interest on the HELOC for this place.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I think this situation illustrates that you cannot abdicate your responsibility even when you hire a professional. You need to know exactly what that professional is bringing to the table and at what costs.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

That's not to mention that you can help your agent as well. Post free ads on free sites, here the big ones are craigslist and kijiji and include a link to the mls listing. 

Something like 

Amazing spacious one plus one in a great old biddies club with an active crochet club. No knitting allowed and residents must have a minimum of 11 cats to qualify for the Gossip Circle. 

If you happen to need an extra cat qualify feel free to check out the last member of my cat brood who needs adopting. Mama cat needs a home now as all the kittens I saved have been adopted. All in all I saved 81 lives! Mama "Rose" is a super duper nice lady cat. She's the last picture down. http://www.oasisanimalrescue.ca/in-the-news/rose-(kittens-adopt/

On my way out to Oshawa from Toronto I had to put her in a cardboard box according to something I read on the internet. She had a daughter and I only had one carrier. When I tried to put the daughter cat into the box she protested. Now covered in clawmarks, I put the kittens and then Rose in the box and tied it up with electrical tape. I set out on my 45 minute drive with the other cat caterwauling from the back seat. Rose took about 10 minutes to stick her head out of the box. Then she got tangled up in the electrical tape. I decided I would hold/scratch her neck to keep her in the box. She accepted this type of ill treatment for me with grace while stuck up with electrical tape for 45 minutes without even trying to bite or claw me even purring at some points. 

Personally I was waiting for her to freak the hell out and jump wildly around the car. Didn't happen she's a sweet cat and black. Most people don't like black cats.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

So to update this, I asked the realtor (the current one) last night to confirm with me again what commission we were giving listing agents, and she basically told me that she no longer wants to work with me and is going to terminate our contract. I couldn't really believe it - she got so defensive about me asking her to send over our contract once again and the full listing details she had up... so now I'm basically without a realtor and the listing is being taken down. 

So the hunt is on. I was talking to the builder of my new place this morning about it all and he suggested Seller Invite. 

Has any one had any experience with this? My parents are also suggesting 2% Realty. The good news is I guess now I get the fresh start to try this all over again and do things much better.


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## mrbizi (Dec 19, 2009)

ShannonC said:


> So to update this, I asked the realtor (the current one) last night to confirm with me again what commission we were giving listing agents, and she basically told me that she no longer wants to work with me and is going to terminate our contract. I couldn't really believe it - she got so defensive about me asking her to send over our contract once again and the full listing details she had up... so now I'm basically without a realtor and the listing is being taken down.
> 
> So the hunt is on. I was talking to the builder of my new place this morning about it all and he suggested Seller Invite.
> 
> Has any one had any experience with this? My parents are also suggesting 2% Realty. The good news is I guess now I get the fresh start to try this all over again and do things much better.


It seems like you need a lot of handholding and need to sell. I would recommend going with a full-service, name brand broker, e.g. Re/max, royal lepage etc. Just interview a couple and choose one. 

I would stay away from discount brokers. You get what you pay for. If you have sold houses before and are knowledgeable with the real estate transaction then you can afford to "experiment" with these type of brokers. Otherwise you might end up back where you started.


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

Sounds to me like you got one of the realtors I seem to run into often around here.

They want to do the least amount of work possible for the most amount of pay. It's easy to find another realtor, there are far too many out there and they are starting to starve.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

mrbizi said:


> It seems like you need a lot of handholding and need to sell. I would recommend going with a full-service, name brand broker, e.g. Re/max, royal lepage etc. Just interview a couple and choose one.
> 
> I would stay away from discount brokers. You get what you pay for. If you have sold houses before and are knowledgeable with the real estate transaction then you can afford to "experiment" with these type of brokers. Otherwise you might end up back where you started.


She is with a full service broker, not sure if it's brand name, but definetely she is not getting what she is paying for.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I was a little leery about the 2%.... my mom is convinced they would be fine, but what everyone said makes complete sense. 

And yes, hand holding, unfortunately is what I need. It's just bad because I trust way too easily. The last one was a full service broker, but it sure didn't feel like it.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

ShannonC said:


> Thanks for the replies. I was a little leery about the 2%.... my mom is convinced they would be fine, but what everyone said makes complete sense.
> 
> And yes, hand holding, unfortunately is what I need. It's just bad because I trust way too easily. The last one was a full service broker, but it sure didn't feel like it.


Don't feel bad - for the amount of money you are paying a realtor you SHOULD get, and should expect, top notch service. 

Unfortunately I believe most realtors just want an honest weeks pay for an honest days work.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

She did you a favour by resigning. That's great. My next advice was going to be to find another RE agent. Now you can do that.

Note to anyone with stars in their eyes who think RE is such a great thing to be in. Let the hassles of the OP in this thread be further proof to the contrary. Leaving a rental is far cheaper and way less hassle than what the OP is going through now.

Think about this, before you buy.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

ShannonC said:


> .... she no longer wants to work with me and is going to terminate our contract. ...


Get that in writing. Last thing you need is to have to pay the old agent AND a new agent for a sale (before the old contract expires)


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

1+


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

One of the things you didn't mention is the number of showings you got. A listing agent's main job at the beginning is to get people to look at your place. As a listing agent, there is very little they can do to actually sell a place, that is more the job of the buyer's agent. If the agent helped you price the place correctly, took good pictures, and generally got a lot of people looking at your place, then they are doing a good job. If no one is looking, then they aren't. 

There is very little they can do to actually sell the place, unless they bring in their own clients. If a house doesn't sell, but has a lot of showings then its probably overpriced or appeals to a special market.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah, she stated in an email she was terminating it and am just waiting for the official agreement. 

Meanwhile, so I contacted another realtor today - a recommendation from a close friend of mine who was in the industry a number of years ago and he felt strongly as well that I may be better off renting it at the moment (he knows the building and figured I could get a really good rent rate on it). 

I was pretty much set on selling, but we started to work through some numbers. Just to see if there would be any interest, I put an ad up on Kijiji today and within a few hours had a couple people already interested. I have it listed at $1450 and my total bills to cover costs comes to around $1050, so hmm, maybe this would not be that bad of a way to go. 

I don't know much about being a landlord though; perhaps I could look into hiring a property management company or I do have a few friends who are big into rentals, they may take it on if I paid them. 

I have to think about that whole idea a bit harder, but just found it kind of ironic that I had four showings over 79 days and in 4 hours of one kijiji ad already have 2 people who want to view it. Maybe Just A Guy was on to something.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Based on your temperment and comments in this thread, it would be my advice to you NOT to get involved with renting. I don't know what you do for a living, but if you're working full time at a job and have family/friends/social life the last thing you want to do is get involved with tenants. It's just not worth the hassle and aggravation. I rented a condo a few years ago and sold it after. Big mistake. I should have sold it straight away. Selling a place with tenants in it is not easy.

And don't involve your friends with business like this. Bad idea. 

See my earlier advice about finding a new agent and selling. But don't be passive with the new realtor. Ask them the tough questions upfront, see how responsive they are to you and stay on top of them.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

a big consideration for me in choosing an agent is their presence in your neighbourhood. There are a couple of agents where I live that tend to get most of the listings, sell quickly, and for what I think are higher prices. I suppose they know what 'sells' here and how to sell it. They also have more buyers available who are interested in this neighbourhood. IF there's an agent who has sold a number of units in your building, give them a call. I think their knowledge of the building, what buyers like and don't like about it, and possibly their contact with potential buyers who are interested in the building offsets any potential conflict they may have by having competing listings. 

And I echo the comments on being a landlord. The investment side can go seriously wrong if you're not cut out for the management side.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for both the replies. Yeah, I'm definitely a bit tentative about the rental idea. I've heard so many stories of people just having nothing but headaches with it. I guess I'm just partly worried it'll sit and and sit and sit. 

The second realtor I talked to (the one who told my my former agent was using very low buyer's agent's commissions) is mostly working in that area and said he has sold a number in my building before, so he may not be a bad idea to talk to. Is it a wise move to talk to 3-4 before making a decision? I'd think most would be on the same level in terms of what price they think they could sell it for and what commission structure they'd use or is there lots of variability?


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## mrbizi (Dec 19, 2009)

ShannonC said:


> Thanks again for both the replies. Yeah, I'm definitely a bit tentative about the rental idea. I've heard so many stories of people just having nothing but headaches with it. I guess I'm just partly worried it'll sit and and sit and sit.
> 
> The second realtor I talked to (the one who told my my former agent was using very low buyer's agent's commissions) is mostly working in that area and said he has sold a number in my building before, so he may not be a bad idea to talk to. Is it a wise move to talk to 3-4 before making a decision? I'd think most would be on the same level in terms of what price they think they could sell it for and what commission structure they'd use or is there lots of variability?


Interview 2-3, more than that might be too much and unnecessary. I would make my decision based on:

-my comfort level with the agent, do they seem to know what they are talking about? Can I trust him/her
-is he a full time realtor (70% are part-timers). In order for them to provide quality service they need to at least be in the business full time.
-do not base your decision on what the suggested listing price is or what they think they can sell the house for. Unless they have a crystal ball, no realtor knows for sure how much a property will sell. Be weary also of realtors who give you a very high price as this could be simply an attempt to get you to sign with them. You would be better off listing it at a realistic price from the beginning. I would put some weight though in their pricing analysis and how they arrived at their recommended listing price, as this can demonstrate their skill and knowledge (or lack of it).
- as for commission rates, I would make this a secondary criteria. Again some will offer a very low rate but will do nothing but just wait for an offer to come in. what's worse is that once an offer comes in, they will apply high pressure tactics to get you to accept ANY offer. Remember they offered you a discounted rate, so you'll likely receive discounted services.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

ShannonC said:


> But, I spoke with the second realtor I consulted with and he said when he looked at the listing on his side, he said I'm not and it's much lower than normal. He couldn't tell me what it was or many details since he said it was against the code of ethics.... I believe, if I'm reading the contract right, the rate is 3.5% of the first 100k and 1.5% for the remaining.
> 
> I tried to look online, but wasn't really getting a definitive answer. What is the normal rate for buyer's side realtors? That is one thing that would totally make sense - if we're offering way less, buyer's realtors will turn their clients away from it.


You are getting the runaround by the second realtor. Standard in AB is 3.5% per side (7%) for the first $100k and 1.5% per side (3%)for the remaining. You have the standard rates, each of the buying and selling side splitting the commission. All these things you should have been intimately familiar with at the time you signed the listing, and committed to memory.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for both the replies. That's a good point about the part-timers out there, although the last felt like a part-timer but it was obvious she was taking on too much, plus with two small kids and recently divorced, I think it took a toll on her. 

Hmm, yeah, she was right then, which is really frustrating the second guy would even say something like that. Seems really slimmy. 

I looked a bit more into the rental idea - there is a property management company that will take on a single unit and they're $1000 per month, flat rate basically, so it isn't to bad in that regard. The big thing I'm still waiting for is to talk to my account to see how it would impact me on the tax side of things. I own my own business, so am just not sure where the income would be claimed and all that... I'd just be breaking barely even without any tax implications. I'm still pretty set on re-listing after doing more thinking about the rental. I just pray it sells.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

$1000 per month to manage a unit that rents for $1450?? That seems crazy!


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

It's probably a typo, an extra 0, I'd hope, or per year would be better. The one thing to remember is property managers can make realtors look good and honourable by comparison.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> The one thing to remember is property managers can make realtors look good and honourable by comparison.


Yes, indeed: http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/the-problem-with-property-management/


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree with spudd. $1000 is WAY, WAY too much. My property mgmt cost IIRC was around $250/mo and I found that expensive. No flat rate BS either (what if the tenant doesn't pay?) Don't waste time worrying about taxes and shell games. You are making this much too complicated. Lower the price aggressively until the place sells. The longer you hold out, the longer you are paying taxes and other expenses that can never be reclaimed.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm not sure I would go so far as to say that property managers are more unethical than realtors. I am a property manager thought and so I can explain a little how the business works for me. 

I have two basic streams of income, one for renting for which I charge one month's rent. I also pay to evict any bad tenants I place including court costs. This is the best deal with the best guarantee in the Toronto area I am aware of. 

Property management is my second income stream and I charge 5% with a minimum of $70 per month. It adds up pretty fast and helps me pay the regular bills. In the beginning of my business I didn't do any management at all because my thoughts were that if you have a proper tenant anyone can manage property. I have since changed my mind on this issue, i completely underestimated some people's ability to foul up. Then there are the out of towners and people who just don't want to. Management and dealing with tenants is easy for me and I know a lot about the law and so I can do very well compared to most owners. 

Between the two streams of income, I do very well and I am well on my way to replacing the income I gave up when I resigned from the buildings. (60K per year) I don't think that I will ever manage buildings again, the margins are too low. The building I was managing at Jane & Wilson was paying me $2500 per month and it had 71 units and no rerental fees. Or I could rent 1.5 downtown condos or manage 15 single family homes. 

Also I am aware that most property managers do take kickbacks from contractors, that's because you just can't do much for $70... the other properties that are running smoothly do make up for that, but in some cases there's just a lot of work to do on a particular property. In those cases I have begun charging project management. Just recently I took on a problem tenant and the place run down and deficient, the city got involved and I told the owner I wouldn't be continuing for the $100.00 per month he was paying me and I would have to charge project management to do all the work that needed doing. We agreed to part ways after that but I didn't create the situation, I didn't rent to the awful tenant and $100 wouldn't even have paid for the gas just to go there for the next three months while the city forced him to do the work. Other than that every time I've charge project management so far the owners have gladly paid the extra. It's 10% of what the contractors charge.


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## LifeInsuranceCanada.com (Aug 20, 2012)

ShannonC said:


> Thanks again for both the replies. That's a good point about the part-timers out there, although the last felt like a part-timer but it was obvious she was taking on too much, plus with two small kids and recently divorced, I think it took a toll on her.
> 
> Hmm, yeah, she was right then, which is really frustrating the second guy would even say something like that. Seems really slimmy.
> 
> I looked a bit more into the rental idea - there is a property management company that will take on a single unit and they're $1000 per month, flat rate basically, so it isn't to bad in that regard. The big thing I'm still waiting for is to talk to my account to see how it would impact me on the tax side of things. I own my own business, so am just not sure where the income would be claimed and all that... I'd just be breaking barely even without any tax implications. I'm still pretty set on re-listing after doing more thinking about the rental. I just pray it sells.


Don't discount listing on kijiji these days either. I know two people who've sold their single family homes within days of listing on kijiji. In the old days everyone read the local newspaper for all the houses and open houses going on. These days I suspect the first place many purchasers go is kijiji. And they're a lot less reluctant to buy without a realtor these days.


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

LifeInsuranceCanada. said:


> Don't discount listing on kijiji these days either. I know two people who've sold their single family homes within days of listing on kijiji. In the old days everyone read the local newspaper for all the houses and open houses going on. These days I suspect the first place many purchasers go is kijiji. And they're a lot less reluctant to buy without a realtor these days.


If you're going to go the private route: Make sure you have a good (preferably Real Estate) lawyer to review any serious offers. You're going to need one to close the deal anyway.


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## ShannonC (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks again for the replies and yes, that was a typo - sorry. It was $1000 per year. It's just all foreign ground so a bit more scary going in. I would feel better having a property manager, but if they're like the real estate agents I've dealt with...maybe not. 

I've been looking more at the income tax side of things and even thought I would be in positive cash flow with the rental, I don't think I'd still come out ahead compared to putting the equity I'd get out of the condo ($120k) down on this new place. My broker is looking at how we could change things up from the mortgage point of view right now, so I'll see what he comes up with. 

I'm meeting another new realtor, recommended by my broker, on Saturday to assess the place for selling it. My broker says this agent is one of the best he's worked with, so we'll see. Who knows who you can trust though. I'll see what kind of vibe I get from him and he said he'll provide me with lots of compatibles on the market and stats. 




Xoron said:


> If you're going to go the private route: Make sure you have a good (preferably Real Estate) lawyer to review any serious offers. You're going to need one to close the deal anyway.


That's a good point. I really liked the Lawyer I used for buying this place, so I'd probably rehire him. I didn't really think of listing on Kijiji though. My former realtor (the one who had it listed earlier) had said you deal a lot with people who aren't even approved for financing if you go the Kijiji route. 

Has anyone found this?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I've never tried to sell a house on kijiji but people who are not approved for financing present offers through RE agents as well. This isn't a differentiating factor. So if you decide to sell make sure you stipulate to your agent that all offers must be from people approved for the financing. Otherwise it's a waste of your time.


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## ToRealtyBlog (May 17, 2013)

*Have you ever been on Kijiji?*

*Have you ever been on Kijiji?*

Maybe I'm just a visual person with high expectations and low standards for disorganization but there is a lot going on on Kijiji and rightfully so, it's am online community for Sellers & Buyers of all types. 

Nicknacks, cars, clothes, and real estate? They are just not on the same scale in my opinion. I'm worried enough buying a t-shirt from a randon on Kijiji because I want to ensure that it is quality and avoid getting jipped. Selling or Buying a house on Kijiji is a big risk. Let's not make light of the recent Tim Bosma story. That was a rare incident but safety is always something to consider. 

Real estate is a big thing to buy or sell on Kijiji. This is an unregulated marketplace - at least when a Realtor assists you with the sale or purchase of a home that Realtor has credentials that will act as safeties for you down the road. Any complaint and that realtor could lose his job. Selling & Buying on Kijiji seems risky to me. There are many factors to consider when listing your home: 1. Where will you get the best advertising with able Buyers 2. How will you manage showing/viewings in your home. 3. if on Kijiji, how do you protect yourself from potential risks. 4. Where to get a real estate lawyer/who to ask for real estate advice during the process. 

If you're buying on Kijiji: 1. How to protect yourself. 2. Are all the necessary details about the house apparent (sq ftg., price, age of home, etc.) before viewing it. 3. Are the pictures accurate, consider perspective? 4. How to safely arrange viewings? And I could go on...

Well they say don't knock it until you've tried it but i've heard stories from close friends searching for rental units on Kijiji and having a difficult time. Mostly due to the lack of transparency, not all Seller will post relevant things like ceiling height and they end up wasting their time viewing the wrong properties. Or you get disorganized Sellers who do not call you back. 

Just my thoughts.


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## Koala (Jan 27, 2012)

You might have an easier time renting. I'm looking to buy, and I would not want to do so in Mill Woods. Many people I know feel the same.

Looking around, I've seen quite a few people using 2% realty. I haven't noticed those houses staying on the market any longer than others. I haven't been paying attention to the company when it comes to sale prices though.


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