# Language used by the alt-right



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Here's a guide to the language used by the alt-right and white supremacists. People pick up this language from the propaganda being fed to them by the extremist news sites and right-wing talk radio. I suggest you become familiar with the code so that you can identify people who are being influenced. It's already moving into Canada and this lingo has appeared on posters.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-alt-right-terminology-20161115-story.html

Also watch out for Pepe the Frog graphic, and "safe place" or "safe space" used mockingly.

If you see someone frequently using this language, they are likely reading the propaganda material and they may even have become radicalized. I think Canadians are too complacent about what's going on here. There is a well-funded, strong push from the originators of this propaganda and it will spread from the US to Canada. The intention of the movement is to intimidate visible minorities and assert ***********, and these code words are indicators that someone has associated themselves with that radical ideology.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Not the right link. Poor Pepe has become a racist symbol, but laughing at the ridiculous "safe spaces" is a sign of normality rather than anything else.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Maybe safe spaces isn't appropriate for the list. It's fine to criticize things like safe spaces or liberals, my point is that this vocabulary is common in alt-right message forums and talk radio -- informal gathering places of people with this ideology (which at its core is white supremacy).

These terms aren't as obvious identification symbols as say a swastika, it's just that the pattern of usage is _characteristic_ of followers of the movement. Go check out the comments of any Zerohedge story for a good example. You can also find it in Facebook discussions and comments among the *********** crowd.

I have the misfortune of being in other message forums where the alt-right has taken over. They are constantly posting conspiracy theories, racist content, and their text is peppered with the words in the linked article.

I suggest keeping an eye out among your own contacts (and their Facebook/Twitter activities) because frequent usage of this vocabulary is an identifying characteristic. They will especially use it in short sound-bite bursts, because they are mimicking what they hear on talk radio.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

That is one terrible piece of journalism. It mixes alt right lingo, like cuckservative and white genocide with notions that any sane person should be upset about, like POlitical correctness. Social warrior is a perfectly legitimate term used to describe the far left activists. If alt right use "the", perhaps anyone using it shows signs of extremism too? 

It's these kinds of articles that deprive media of credibility. Here is a really good rant which explains why stupid PC spin like this actually help alt right, fake news sites and so on http://hurryupharry.org/2016/11/27/who-gave-us-post-truth-conspiracy-culture-and-the-alt-right/


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Ah, interesting. An unfortunate mixing of lingo in the article then?

Definitely watch out for "white genocide", "cuck" and the green frog though.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Also, your claim that Alt Right are intimidating "visible minorities" is BS. So far their key targets include Soros, Jewish journalists and Jewish university professors, all of whom are invisible minorities.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes Jewish people have been targets, but so have visible minorities.

The entire alt-right movement is a direct threat to black people and hispanics. It's asserting power and supremacy of white people, and is meant to put minorities in their place. This is the whole point of the KKK as well... to intimidate and instill fear in non-whites.

These alt-right posters that appeared in Toronto looked like this:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/east-york-alt-right-racist-posters-1.3850386

I'd call those intimidating to visible minorities.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

How did you figure that they target "visible" minorities??? They target minorities.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

And mordko, have you forgotten how one of the big forces that united/formed the alt-right to begin with was hatred of Obama ... the black president?

The KKK is proudly associated with the alt-right. The movement is highly threatening to black people, and of course, many other groups.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> How did you figure that they target "visible" minorities??? *They target minorities*.


Yes, true. They target all minorities.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Why the "visible minorities" term is dumb:

Exhibit 1: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t832764/

Exhibit 2. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ghts-activist-who-posed-as-black-resigns.html


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Oh man, "standards" at stormfront. Ick. Ok, my Tuesday is ruined...

Warning to people, you may not want to visit the Exhibit 1 link above. Beware that it's a neo-nazi message forum.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

...and if you do, make sure you do it from a safe space while touching a picture of a visible minority. Thereafter read five posts by Daily Kos, Hufftington Post, Southern Poverty Law Center and 10 recent statements by Obama.


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

james4beach said:


> I have the misfortune of being in other message forums where the alt-right has taken over. They are constantly posting conspiracy theories, racist content, and their text is peppered with the words in the linked article.
> 
> I suggest keeping an eye out among your own contacts (and their Facebook/Twitter activities) because frequent usage of this vocabulary is an identifying characteristic. They will especially use it in short sound-bite bursts, because they are mimicking what they hear on talk radio.


Misfortune? Who's forcing you to be on any message forum? With all the reading you do, when do you actually have time to work and sleep?

You need help. See a doctor. YOU'RE OBSESSED.

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/103722-Language-used-by-the-alt-right/page2
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/62825-White-right-wing-terrorists-strike-again
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/99618-White-supremacists-menacing-Edmonton-streets


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Overall what you are saying is the alt right, white supremacists have their own language to sway people to their cause. Mordko pointed out, the left have their own language or PC they use to sway people to their propaganda. The left PC movement is directly responsible for the destruction of Europe by floods of muslim refugees. So far the left PC language has been extremely destructive and is now teaching white supremacists of the usefulness of language.

I don't have time to fact check but I read in Italy that people are being forced to take in migrants or face jail.

http://thesccop.com/italys-minister-of-interior-surrender-your-homes-to-migrants-or-face-jail/

Just threw up a quick link before I have to go. I don't know if it is true but there you go.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

I have found during my lifetime that many groups of people who wish to sway the opinions of others, adopt a special language or create new word combinations in an attempt to appear intellectual and therefore more trustworthy. They believe it buttresses and gives credence to their opinions.

I have seen it used by preachers and evangelists, feminists, alt left and alt right. Mostly it is used by stupid people who want to appear smart.

It is also useful to hide their true beliefs. People don't want to reveal themselves by saying........."I hate Jews" or "I despise black people."

When I have viewed some of the videos on Youtube I often wonder............who let these people out of the nut house.


----------



## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The feminists have turned men into women in Europe & North America. Not good when fighting the Moslem attempted take over.


----------



## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Its almost funny the women promoted the feminist movement trying to turn their men into women. Then mostly young women in Europe rallied & demonstrated to bring in Moslem immigrants the Alpha males that are accustomed to war & treating women poorly. Now they are getting rapped scarred to go out having to dye their hair be careful what you wish for


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Say James I posted an article from the Boston Globe that was very complimentary of Steve Bannon when he was at Harvard Business
school. Somehow you didn't respond to it. To difficult to deal with because it contradicts your belief system ?

You were the one who said Bannon and Breivik have the same core values. Quite a stretch james.

Meanwhile another terrorist incident, this time at Ohio State University. A Muslim young man of Somali origin
drove his car into a crowd of students and then attacked them with a knife.

Nothing to see here folks, move on now.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

new dog said:


> So far the left PC language has been extremely destructive and is now teaching white supremacists of the usefulness of language.
> 
> I don't have time to fact check but I read in Italy that people are being forced to take in migrants or face jail.
> 
> ...



no, there we don't go.

recent legislation in canada has strengthened the case against anonymous internet users who hit to spew malicious rumours & defamatory libel, then run.

wondering what left PC language are you talking about? propaganda websites like your favourite zerohedge are parasites that survive by stealing legitimate news feeds from properly trained, well-edited, fact-checked mainstream media. 

.


----------



## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

The term "alt-right" has been so corrupted and misused by the left that it isn't even worth talking about anymore.

There's a certain trick that I like to employ in real life to joke about something so irreverently that it comes across as serious. And inversely, to be so serious about something that it comes across as a joke. It's a way to bring some humour to serious topics, and inversely to be a deadpan deliverer of jokes. And no, there's nothing nefarious behind this tactic. 

But the reason I mention it is because this sort of thing was used by what you may call the "alt-right" as a way to "meme our way to the Presidency". Taking a serious thing like a presidential election and bringing some laughs to it. And when people respond by being up in arms and trying to demonize a cartoon frog, that makes it even more funny.

The left does this tactic too, i.e. Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Where they joke about politics but you can tell deep down they're really serious about it.


----------



## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

Argonaut said:


> The term "alt-right" has been so corrupted and misused by the left that it isn't even worth talking about anymore.
> 
> There's a certain trick that I like to employ in real life to joke about something so irreverently that it comes across as serious. And inversely, to be so serious about something that it comes across as a joke. It's a way to bring some humour to serious topics, and inversely to be a deadpan deliverer of jokes. And no, there's nothing nefarious behind this tactic.
> 
> ...


It means anyone that doesn't swallow the ridiculous pap being pushed out daily by the MSM-you are basically either a sheep or as they say "alt right"-the irony is that a high percentage of these "alt right" would have been labelled as "left wing" maybe 5 minutes ago but logic never stands in the way of propaganda.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Nelley said:


> It means anyone that doesn't swallow the ridiculous pap being pushed out daily by the MSM-you are basically either a sheep or as they say "alt right"-the irony is that a high percentage of these "alt right" would have been labelled as "left wing" maybe 5 minutes ago but logic never stands in the way of propaganda.


"MSM", "sheep", "propaganda" - I couldn't read the original link but if these are the terms used by the alt-right then the 60s called and they want their counterculture terms back.


----------



## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

olivaw said:


> "MSM", "sheep", "propaganda" - I couldn't read the original link but if these are the terms used by the alt-right then the 60s called and they want their counterculture terms back.


Einstein: That is exactly the point-in the 1960s anyone not swallowing the koolaid was labelled "left wing" now it is "alt right".


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

Nelley said:


> Einstein: That is exactly the point-in the 1960s anyone not swallowing the koolaid was labelled "left wing" now it is "alt right".


The counterculture folks of the 60s opposed white supremacy. The alt-right embrace it. You can't just steal the 60s counterculture terminology and claimed to have revived the movement.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Some of you guys... wraphter and SMK ... don't comprehend just how threatening the alt-right is towards minorities.

Later I will tell you what my coworker told me today. Her husband is black, and both she and her husband are losing sleep (and also carrying their concealed weapons daily) because of the increased threat by white supremacists.

Because _you_ don't understand the threat to minorities, you think this is whining. It just speaks to your inability to empathize with people who are now legitimately fearful for their lives.

This is the situation in the USA now. I agree, not in Canada, but I want to show you guys what's going on in America.


----------



## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

And it's not just the 'visible' minorities. You only have to appear as one.

A non-Muslim woman who was wearing a headscarf because of her Lupus disease had her car vandalized, and a racist note left....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ed-called-hijab-wearing-b-h-article-1.2878089

These are the fringe lunatics who now feel emboldened by the Trump victory. That a**hole, Trump didn't know that when you stir the pot, the sludge at the bottom comes to the surface?


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I wouldn't change my vote just because I was worried it might boost white supremacists a little. In Canada I would vote Conservative if they promised to reverse Trudeau's immigration policy. If that caused as a side effect a small boost to white supremacists it wouldn't change my mind. I am not going to be scared off because of some extra small boost to the fringe lunatics.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Terrorists among immigrants are also the fringe lunatics, very small percent of the immigrants and refugees


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

That's a true statement, but of course you don't need an aweful lot of people to commit mass murder, bring an absolute havoc to the country, to inflict a major damage and force changes on everyone.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Terrorists among immigrants are also the fringe lunatics, very small percent of the immigrants and refugees


The white supremacists are a small % of the population yet you seem very perturbed by them, in fact more so than by Islamic terrorists.

Also it is incorrect to use the term 'lunatic fringe'. They are not all mentally ill. The shooter in San Bernadino was employed and married and
had one child. Young males are a very unruly lot anyways. 

In any event james you appear to be downplaying the danger from Muslim immigrants. I will never convince you otherwise.

There appears to be a suicidal motivation for Islamic terrorists.Their religion encourages it. They are willing to throw their young lives away for what they believe is a holy cause.
There will always be impressionable young people with emotional hangups who will do that.
They probably believe they are good and pure and virtuous souls.
They call themselves martyrs.
The Arabic word is shaheed.
There religion sanctifies it.



I remember the Vietnam war in the sixties. There was a tremendous amount of anti-war sentiment and demonstrations. There was also
anti-war bombings. There was a great amount of anger and resistance to the war. 

What there wasn't was there wasn't any Vietnamese terrorists committing acts of violence. The simple reason is because there wasn't any North Vietnamese or Viet Cong 
in the country. There wasn't any fifth column in the US and Canada as there is today with Muslims.


I remember the terrorist acts related to the Palestinian cause--the hijackings, bombing etc.
We were safe in North America because the population of Middle Easterners was small. Less so in Europe.

Of course there was European sympathizers motivated by idealism like the Bader Meinhof gang.

Things have gotten much worse with the large Muslim population in Europe.
The religiously motivated are more deadly than the politically motivated.

And so it goes from one generation to the next.


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

wraphter said:


> The white supremacists are a small % of the population yet you seem very perturbed by them, in fact more so than by Islamic terrorists.


"Statistically" speaking, in his own words - he, a white man living in the US apparently, is more afraid of white extremism than Islamic one - post 166. http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/97121-Mass-shooting-in-Munich/page17


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

james4beach said:


> Some of you guys... wraphter and SMK ... don't comprehend just how threatening the alt-right is towards minorities.
> 
> Because _you_ don't understand the threat to minorities, you think this is whining. *It just speaks to your inability to empathize with people who are now legitimately fearful for their lives.*


Not so much whining but speaks of your hypocrisy. "White terrorism" is the only thing that concerns you judging by your multiple threads on the subject, including this one. 

Your "heart breaks" for the victims of "right-wing/crazed white terrorists" not so much for anyone else. http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/62825-White-right-wing-terrorists-strike-again

In post 171, you accused Europeans of "going absolutely nuts with anti-Muslim paranoia." I guess "it just speaks to your inability to empathize with people who are now legitimately fearful for their lives" in Europe. http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/97121-Mass-shooting-in-Munich/page18


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

SMK: it's not an obsession. I am highlighting stories that are under-represented in the media because the media is obsessed with islamic terrorism and presents a highly biased view that makes it seem like muslims are the only threat. I agree that muslim terrorism is a huge threat. _But it's not the only significant threat -- despite what the media and Trump tell you_

US domestic terrorism carried out by non-Muslim groups has been very significant over the years -- killing many hundreds of people. Since the 9/11 attacks, Americans have been obsessed with muslim terrorism but other white terrorist threats continue to be a big problem.

The last tally I saw of the US death toll due to different types of terrorism showed that fatalities due to both muslim terrorism and white/domestic terrorism were about equal over the last handful of years. *So if Muslim radicals worry you, then white radicals should worry you too.*

The US media and police under-report white terrorism, such as instances where KKK members assault or kill black people. Overall, this leads to the improper perception that muslims are "the greatest threat" to society.

Today, we have a situation where KKK and neo-nazis (I'm calling them white supremacists) are on the rise. This is an active terrorist group which is actively recruiting people, and it's happening right now. There are white radicals gaining momentum today and that should concern you, because they are just as dangerous as muslim radicals. They have infiltrated Canada, and we see evidence of it with these posters and "whitegenocide" appearing all over the place.

Just like muslim radicals, not every one of these white radicals will do something violent. However these are people who have the potential to do horrific acts of violence, such as mass shootings (Breivik) and gunning down agents of the government (Moncton, NB shooter). Therefore we have to be vigilant about the rising white terrorists in Canada, because US activity, especially alt-right, is encouraging them very explicitly.

*Some people disagree with me on what "white terrorism" is. I'm including the white supremacists movements (KKK, neo-nazis), Christian/evangelical religious radicals, as well as the anti-government nuts (Moncton shooter, Oregon ranchers militia, Timothy McVeigh). These groups are linked. The alt-right explicitly has supported all of these radicals and their membership is nearly unanimously pro-Trump*


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

There are dozens of threads on this forum for hand wringing about Muslims. 

This thread is about a more unique issue - and one that is closer to home. Racism has become normalized again. I've witnessed it in Canada. I am sure others have too. People are far more willing to openly admit to being racist nowadays. 

Trump has a history of racist practices including denying accommodation to non-whites. His senior strategist, Steve Bannon declared that he had turned Breitbart into the hub of the alt-right (and he meant the supremacists and racists). His AG, Jeff Sessions was denied a federal judgeship because he was found to be too racist. 

Minorities in the United States have reason to be worried. There are going to be individuals in the white house with ties to racism and bigotry. Nobody knows what the new president will do because he holds almost every position on almost every issue. Minorities find themselves in a precarious position.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

olivaw said:


> Minorities in the United States have reason to be worried.


Here is what my coworker told me (we are in the USA)

Her husband is black. When they are out in the streets walking around, they are a "mixed race" couple. This is a big deal in the US among the alt-right crowd and white supremacists -- both the white woman and black man can be targets. They experience racist comments all the time, and are used to that, but since the rise of the alt-right & Trump, they are more fearful of their lives. They think there is a significant threat of violence towards them. As a result, they are now both carrying their concealed handguns with them all the time. For example this past weekend, they went to the Pacific coast which is a rural area that voted Trump. Even at the beach, or walking around a small town, they are on high alert. They also know that if there ever was an incident or struggle initiated by a white attacker, that the racist small town police would arrest (or kill) the black husband.

That's how minorities in the US feel right now. Black and hispanic Americans are probably more heavily armed than ever before, thanks to Trump. Just as SMK or wraphter lives in fear of muslim terrorists, these minorities in the US live in fear of white terrorists.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

And here is why my coworker(s) are so anxious. The US has seen a surge of hate incidents, mostly anti-immigrant and anti-black. Oregon has among the highest number of hate incidents in the country despite being one of the smallest populations... there is rampant racism and hate being expressed since the Trump election

http://www.wweek.com/uncategorized/...n-hate-incidents-shows-oregon-at-top-of-list/


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

Study Says White Extremists Have Killed More Americans in the U.S. Than Jihadists Since 9/11



> Since 9/11, white right-wing terrorists have killed almost twice as many Americans in homegrown attacks than radical Islamists have, according to research by the New America Foundation.


How come the study starts after 9/11? Do the Muslims get a freebie? 2,996 people were killed in 9/11. They should be included
in the number killed by Muslims total.



> They found that 48 people were killed by white terrorists, while 26 were killed by radical Islamists, since Sept. 11.


Including 9/11, 3022 were killed by Muslims and about 48 were killed by whites.

However the population of the US not including Muslims is 318.7 and the population of Muslims in the US is 3.3 million. 

So on a per capita basis a Muslim is much more likely to commit a terroristic murder than a white.

Billions have been spent on Homeland Security, when all that was necessary was to seriously lower immigration
from certain Middle Eastern and other countries.

And a certain demagogue would have been robbed of his talking point.

And all these huge bureaucracies have greatly increased the power of the state over its citizens.


----------



## bass player (Jan 27, 2016)

olivaw said:


> There are dozens of threads on this forum for hand wringing about Muslims.
> 
> This thread is about a more unique issue - and one that is closer to home. Racism has become normalized again. I've witnessed it in Canada. I am sure others have too. People are far more willing to openly admit to being racist nowadays.
> 
> ...


You forgot to mention that Hillary called KKK recruiter Robert Byrd one of her friends and mentors. Bill Clinton praised him at his funeral.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

wraphter said:


> Billions have been spent on Homeland Security, when all that was necessary was to seriously lower immigration
> from certain Middle Eastern and other countries.


Absolutely wrong. The 9/11 terrorists were not immigrants, they were US visitors. They did not ever immigrate. The Orlando shooter was a US citizen *born in the USA* -- not an immigrant.

** Even if the US had stopped all immigration in 1990, this would not have prevented 9/11 or the Orlando shooting. **

Come up with a better plan than "stop immigration"


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

^ I think people don't seem to be getting that there is no practical way of implementing a ban on entry based on ideas without giving the state undue powers. It's inherently authoritarian.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Absolutely wrong. The 9/11 terrorists were not immigrants, they were US visitors. They did not ever immigrate. The Orlando shooter was a US citizen *born in the USA* -- not an immigrant.
> 
> ** Even if the US had stopped all immigration in 1990, this would not have prevented 9/11 or the Orlando shooting. **
> 
> Come up with a better plan than "stop immigration"


That's easy.

So stop the visitors/students under 40.

Or stop all the male visitors/students under 40.

Why couldn't you see that?

So the US spends millions of dollars to kill a Muslim 'over there' but it lets his brother waltz into the 
country 'over here' on a student visa? Let them take online classes.



Look what Trump said after the Orlando shooting--Stop all Muslims from entering the country.
That resonated with his base.

The open border with Mexico and the millions of illegals were easy pickings for Trump.
He exploited it with panache and style.

He rode that issue all the way to the White House .

If you want to bring out the latent authoritarianism keep those borders open.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

OK, so let's stop all US visitors under age 40 ? You don't think a terrorist could ever be age 41 ? C'mon man...

By the way, can you imagine the business impact of a country that tries putting in all of these kinds of entry restrictions?


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I've seen the report which claimed that white supremacists kill more than islamists.

A lot of creative accounting went into that report. It's really dumb the way it's done. Not only do they start right after 9/11, they also include all sorts of diverse groups as "white supremacists" on the most tenuous of links while a lot of lone islamists are not counted on the argument that they are just nutters. Well, all of these people are nutters; you wouldn't be an islamist or a racist if you were not a nutter. 

Reports like this, when they are popularized by the media, are a big reason why the media is losing trust and why not-so-bright people are turning to conspiracy sites. 

Putting white supremacists aside, there has definitely been an increase in the number of racist incidents and Obama's / CNN's political correctness are not good reasons to ignore the growing threat.


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This is why policy decisions are difficult and require intelligent, well informed decision makers.

How do you protect the country's borders without becoming an authoritarian regime that destroys freedom (one of the west's most important values - "Land of the free"). How do you ensure all citizens' right to religious freedom, liberties, safety, freedom from persecution while still tackling radical elements and terrorists among them?

Safety against terrorist attacks is important, sure, but protecting freedom and civil liberties is also very important. It's like crime in general, say murders. You will never stop it 100%. There is some balance there, because none of us want to live in a police state or authoritarian country.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Here is what my coworker told me (we are in the USA)
> 
> Her husband is black. When they are out in the streets walking around, they are a "mixed race" couple. This is a big deal in the US among the alt-right crowd and white supremacists -- both the white woman and black man can be targets. They experience racist comments all the time, and are used to that, but since the rise of the alt-right & Trump, they are more fearful of their lives. They think there is a significant threat of violence towards them. As a result, they are now both carrying their concealed handguns with them all the time. For example this past weekend, they went to the Pacific coast which is a rural area that voted Trump. Even at the beach, or walking around a small town, they are on high alert. They also know that if there ever was an incident or struggle initiated by a white attacker, that the racist small town police would arrest (or kill) the black husband.
> 
> That's how minorities in the US feel right now. Black and hispanic Americans are probably more heavily armed than ever before, thanks to Trump. Just as SMK or wraphter lives in fear of muslim terrorists, these minorities in the US live in fear of white terrorists.


James don't forget this is the USA your talking about racism has always been everywhere down there. I think a couple should be able to walk without fear but again this is the USA. If your a white person try walking down the wrong black neighbourhood in any US city and see how fun this would be. This problem has been this way for a long time as in decades and white supremacists are just a part of it.

Still however most of these white and black racists are US citizens and some go for generations. Meaning what do you want to do about them, they are here?

The muslims are over there, so we don't have to add them to the sh-t show that already exists.

I have a scenario that will make you understand since your eyes are only seeing white right now. What if the middle east was instead filled with white christians and some of them are radical and kill and blow up things like muslims today, would you import them by the thousands. I for one would not want them here.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> This is why policy decisions are difficult and require intelligent, well informed decision makers.
> 
> How do you protect the country's borders without becoming an authoritarian regime that destroys freedom (one of the west's most important values - "Land of the free"). How do you ensure all citizens' right to religious freedom, liberties, safety, freedom from persecution while still tackling radical elements and terrorists among them?
> 
> Safety against terrorist attacks is important, sure, but protecting freedom and civil liberties is also very important. It's like crime in general, say murders. You will never stop it 100%. There is some balance there, because none of us want to live in a police state or authoritarian country.


Agreed. There is a balance. And we are already doing a lot of balancing; like taking a flight is not that much fun any more. Our borders are already controlled. Freedom of speech is already constrained. As is freedom of religion - polygamy and cannibalism are frowned upon. It would be nice not to have any constraints on freedom, wouldn't it? 

With regards to islamic threat:

- number 1 concern isn't immigration but the spread of ideology. Right now you can go to a Mosque in Toronto and learn that Muslims should never be governed by Jews and Christians (in that order) and that Jews and Christians can't be trusted. There are Islamic schools in Mississauga sending graduates to fight for ISIS. There are school teachers explaining that Israel should be wiped out. There are taxpayer funded schools where girls have to be separated from boys and have to stay away during praying if they have menstruation. And there are websites recruiting for ISIS. How is any of this OK? 

- number 2 concern is the people who already attempted to commit ideological mass murder and are now walking free. We've seen it throughout history that ideologically committed people reoffend. The majority of Guantanamo Bay graduates have re-engaged in terror and propaganda of Islamism. So, these people are a direct and immediate threat and have to be neutralized by whatever means. 

- number 3 concern is immigration. If someone is coming from a place where cannibalism is being practiced make an extra special effort to ensure that the practice isn't being imported. Ditto for Islamism. Screw political correctness. We are already discriminating by letting only a small fraction of those who want to immigrate.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

And yet another thread hijacked by the CMF Muslim bashers. yawn.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

It kind of all links together. The stupid left immigration policy is at the root of everything including Trump and Brexit.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

That is true. Two sides of the same coin. 

Antisemitic attacks are increasing frequency exponentially in Germany. If I were to venture a guess, most will be coming from the immigrants who came from antisemitic regions. Another chunk of the growth is likely due to strengthening of the far right, which is in itself linked to the influx of the immigrants from N Africa. 

It's obviously more pronounced in Germany because of the scale of Muslim immigration but the same trends can be observed across the west.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

new dog said:


> It kind of all links together. The stupid left immigration policy is at the root of everything including Trump and Brexit.


Trump and Brexit are a backlash against globalization. Racists think it's about them.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

There are many different reasons for Trump and many reasons for Brexit. Millions of people didn't all vote for the same reasons. Immigration is on that list and so is islamism. Race too. 

Clinton was a poor candidate, part of a dynasty when people wanted a change, which was a major contribution to Trump's success. 

EU's bankruptcy was among key reasons for Brexit. Many people supporting free trade are opposed to the whole undemocratic superstate EU project. 

Yet there is a general feeling that islamism and the far right are both gaining ground across western democracies.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

olivaw said:


> Trump and Brexit are a backlash against globalization. Racists think it's about them.


This is true globalization and what mordko mentioned is all part of it.

On Trump the way the media talks about him and his gang, racists should think it is all about them. It is not but you would think so by the coverage. Look at james threads he sure thinks so as well.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

There is a natural alliance between the left in Europe and America and radical Islam. In the sixties and seventies the Islamic 
movement was mainly involved with supporting the Palestinians and leftist groups were involved operationally. The Entebbe hijacking was a joint effort between two groups.



> on 27 June, an Air France plane with 248 passengers had been hijacked by two members of the *Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine *– External Operations (PFLP-EO) under orders of Wadie Haddad (who had earlier broken away from the PFLP of George Habash),[7] and two members of the *German Revolutionary Cells*. The hijackers had the stated objective to free 40 Palestinian and affiliated militants imprisoned in Israel and 13 prisoners in four other countries in exchange for the hostages.[8]


German Revolutionary Cells  



> The* Revolutionary Cells (German: Revolutionäre Zellen, abbreviated RZ)* were a self-described "urban guerilla" organisation, that was active between 1973 and 1995,[1] and was described in the early 1980s as one of Germany's most dangerous leftist terrorist groups by the West German Interior Ministry.[2] According to the office of the German Federal Prosecutor, the Revolutionary Cells claimed responsibility for 186 attacks,[3] of which 40 were committed in West Berlin.[citation needed]
> The Revolutionary Cells is perhaps most famous internationally for hijacking an Air France flight in cooperation with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – External Operations and diverting it to Uganda's Entebbe Airport, where they were granted temporary asylum until their deaths during Operation Entebbe, a hostage rescue mission carried out by commandos of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) at Entebbe Airport in Uganda on 4 July 1976.[4]
> 
> ........
> ...


Carlos the Jackel was a terrific movie about Ilich Ramírez Sánchez – better known as Carlos the Jackal , left wing revolutionary from South America who aided the Palestinians by committing terrorist acts. Communist East European governments helped him as well.

It's quite interesting how idealistic ,hyper-moral ,leftist youths can cross the line.

Now, the motivation for terrorist activity is not international solidarity and socialism, but Islamism, the conservative
dictates of Islam itself. This second wave is more deadly.

Salman Rushdie notes the alliance between the left and radical Islam today.



> This is a classic mistake and the left has made this mistake beforebecause the worst extension of this mistake is when it looks at movements, radical militant movements which are, in fact, intrinsically fascistic and intrinsically oppressive, but use a rhetoric of claiming to speak for the world’s oppressed peoples. This is the mistake the left fell into with Soviet Communism, with Stalinism. Here was a fascist movement claiming to be a revolutionary libertarian movement: we’ll have more of that, please.
> 
> .........
> 
> ...


In a previous time there was left support of Soviet communism. Now there is left support of radical Islam.
They have to fight for social justice.

Virtue can often lead to violence.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Sure warphter I understand but I am so afraid of white supremacists around every corner I walk around. At least if I were to import some crazy muslims, I could die a quick death, when I get all blowed up. Maybe if I don't put up Christmas trees or wear a cross they will leave me alone and we can all live happily ever after.

Question to mordko or whoever. If the US brings in 1 million muslims how many of those would roughly be added to the hate jews and Israel group?


----------



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Guys, multiple threats can exist simultaneously!

Radical islamists are one threat.
Radical white supremacists are another threat.

My message has been: "dangerous white supremacists are on the rise". And then you guys respond to this by saying "radical islam is dangerous".

Are we in agreement that both of these are threats? They are additive dangers to our society.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

new dog said:


> Sure warphter I understand but I am so afraid of white supremacists around every corner I walk around. At least if I were to import some crazy muslims, I could die a quick death, when I get all blowed up. Maybe if I don't put up Christmas trees or wear a cross they will leave me alone and we can all live happily ever after.
> 
> Question to mordko or whoever. If the US brings in 1 million muslims how many of those would roughly be added to the hate jews and Israel group?


Yes new dog I have had the exact same thought : We have enough crazies, why do we need to import more?


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Radical islamists are one threat.
> Radical white supremacists are another threat.


Interesting that you didn't mention Black protesters,considering that there has been riots with looting and buildings being burnt
in Ferguson and Baltimore.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

According to the FBI, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the United States from 1980 to 2005 have been by non-Muslims. 

Obviously people voted for Trump for a variety of reasons, just as people voted for Hillary for a variety of reasons. But populists succeed when they promise economic security to those feel displaced. Trump promised to revitalize the rust belt, coal and steel. Indeed, Michael Moore, the far left wing liberal recognized it coming and we ignored him. Trump won the EC, not because he tolerated white supremacists but despite of it. Blue collar democrats in the rust belt shifted to Trump and pushed him over the edge. 

(White supremacists always vote Republican, just as communists always vote Democratic. Extreme groups never tilt elections. It's always the moderates. )

James can speak for himself but when I read his posts, I don't read the argument that Trump was an expression of the white supremacy movement. Rather, I read it as the white supremacy movement mistaking the Trump victory as a vindication of their beliefs. They've become emboldened and the resurgence of the white supremacy movement represents a danger to American minorities. 

It also represents a danger to Canadian minorities.

I am not entirely clear why there can't be a discussion on this forum about white supremacists and racism without bringing up Islamic terrorists. Is the argument that hate crimes against a group are justified when a tiny percentage of a minority group commits hate crimes against the majority?


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^ That Huffpo article is a terrible misuse of the information, which is EXACTLY why media is not trusted.

FBI data show that the group committing most frequent attacks are animal rights activists. These are acts of vandalism against government labs: https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005 Not good but it's not exactly 9/11. That's what they are comparing mass murdering attacks to.

The reason Huf. Post article talks about data up to 2005 is that after 2005 the vast majority of terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims. Anyone interested can get a feel for the source of threat by perusing FBI's most wanted list: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists


----------



## Nelley (Aug 14, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Guys, multiple threats can exist simultaneously!
> 
> Radical islamists are one threat.
> Radical white supremacists are another threat.
> ...


Jimmy: Chinese don't like Muslims and they don't want any more Muslims imported into Canada-since the Chinese Canadian community is very important maybe we should be sensitive to their needs as well. Thanks.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

> According to the FBI, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the United States from 1980 to 2005 have been by non-Muslims.


Links please.

The number of Muslims in the US right now is 3.3 million ,1% of the population.

What was it in the 80s and 90s?
If the population of Muslims was still very small, that would be an unfair comparison.

What kind of terrorist acts?

If the 2996 deaths from 9/11 was included the death toll from Muslim acts would probably be a lot higher.

With so much violence --black power like the unruly mobs in Ferguson and Baltimore, *********** like the Timothy McVeigh attack,
with religious fanatics like the Davidians, with disturbed individuals like James Holmes who did the Colorado movie theatre mass murder,with crime from illegal immigrants,with the drug problem,
with the high murder rate, with the easy availability of guns,with the hundreds of billions spent on homeland security 
when a simple change in immigration laws would suffice


----why in God's name do you have to imports more violent young men?


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Here is his link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omar-alnatour/muslims-are-not-terrorist_b_8718000.html

It's an atrocious article. 

Here is another example of Huffpo "journalism":


> According to this same report, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism in the United States than Islamic, yet when was the last time we heard about the threat of Jewish terrorism in the media?


If you look at the actual FBI dataset, you will discover that not one Jewish terrorist attack took place in the US since the 1980s and that nobody was ever murdered. They are pitting this BS against current islamist mass murdering attacks occurring every single year and then claim that it's unfair that media does not talk about Jewish terrorism. 

In some respects Huffpo is actually worse than zerohedge. At least zerohedge does not pretend that it has any integrity.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

*Time: Study Says White Extremists Have Killed More Americans in the U.S. Than Jihadists Since 9/11*

Some would argue that 9/11 is an arbitrary date but I think those people are wrong. 9/11 was a black swan event. It's entirely valid to exclude black swan events because they tend to skew the figures. We should certainly not be obliged to to ignore the threat of white terrorists until they have killed more that 3,000 people.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

olivaw said:


> *Time: Study Says White Extremists Have Killed More Americans in the U.S. Than Jihadists Since 9/11*
> 
> Some would argue that 9/11 is an arbitrary date but I think those people are wrong. 9/11 was a black swan event. It's entirely valid to exclude black swan events because they tend to skew the figures. We should certainly not be obliged to to ignore the threat of white terrorists until they have killed more that 3,000 people.


9/11 cut off was not selected "arbitrarily". It was selected very deliberately, because the ratio of islamist to "right wing" victims would have been 60:1. 

Putting that aside, the primary source must have kept up the count and today is showing that the number of islamist victims is about double of right-wing terrorism: http://www.newamerica.org/in-depth/...nited-states-today/#americas-layered-defenses

Worth noting that, given the pools they are drawing from and with Muslims making up 1% of the population and "right wing" making up 50% of the population, it translates to Muslims being 100 times as dangerous even if 9/11 is not counted. If radicalized Muslisms make up 10% of all Muslims (I made up that number), they are 1000 times as dangerous as "right wing" even if we blank out 9/11.

In fact, that underestimates the risk posed by islamists. Islamists have been given special attention by the FBI. Justifiably so. Hundreds of attacks have been prevented. "Right wing" attackers tend to be loners and their attacks are hard to prevent. 

What really undermines this study is the methodology:

- For Islamists, New America only counts attacks "inspired by or associated with Al Qaeda and its affiliated groups." What the f-ck? There are hundreds of murderous Islamists groups as well as lone islamists murdering in the name of Quran.

- For "Right wing" the murderer has to be "suspected of having anti-government views". Again... What the heck? Suspected? Views? No affiliation to any organization is required? Why are we comparing apples and pears?

Indeed, John Mohammed was a member of the Nation of Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad He worshipped Bin Laden. He was convicted for terrorism. He murdered 17 people in 2002. Is he counted as an Islamic terrorist? Nope. 

The "study" is 100% crap and is ANOTHER good reason why media that reproduces this junk has no credibility.


----------



## wraphter (Sep 21, 2016)

olivaw said:


> *Time: Study Says White Extremists Have Killed More Americans in the U.S. Than Jihadists Since 9/11*
> 
> Some would argue that 9/11 is an arbitrary date but I think those people are wrong. 9/11 was a black swan event. It's entirely valid to exclude black swan events because they tend to skew the figures. We should certainly not be obliged to to ignore the threat of white terrorists until they have killed more that 3,000 people.


The above Time article links to this study. The graph shows a real uptick in murders by Muslims in 2015.



> The Threat is not Existential
> 
> In the fifteen years after 9/11, jihadists have killed 94 people inside the United States. Each of those deaths is a tragedy. The attack in Orlando was the deadliest terrorist attack in the United States since 9/11 and the deadliest mass shooting in American history. However, the attacks are not national catastrophes of the type the United States experienced on 9/11. Instead the death toll has been quite similar to other forms of political—and even non-political—violence Americans face today.


The graph shows that 94 terroristic murders were committed by Muslims and 55 terroristic murders were committed by non-Muslims.

The Muslim population is 3.3 million and the non-Muslim population is 318 million. 

According to my math ,a Muslim is 165 times more likely to commit a terroristic murder than a non-Muslim since 9/11.

Black swans have habit of happening again.
I think the authors of this study might be accused of cherry-picking the data and even a pro-Muslim bias.
It wouldn't be the first time.

What year one starts a mutual fund performance chart can make a big difference.

To say that the Muslim threat is not existential as Obama did ignores the political consequences.

This kind of under-estimation helped put Trump in the White House.

(Funny that Obama never went to Paris for the Charlie Hebdo funeral.)


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Not only did Obama claim that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. He claimed that it has less in common with Islam than with other religions.

Not only can't he bring himself to name the ideology driving these mass murders. He can't even name the targets. The Jewish victims of the terrorist attack on a Kosher shop in Paris were named "a bunch of random folks".

Clinton followed in Obamas steps. Yes, this kind of deliberate lying made some people think that a less PC liar like Trump is a breath of fresh air.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Wow, mordko and wraphter you guys are killing it, with your stats and articles. 

The conclusion is if the left gets its way and imports like they have done in Europe, the white supremacists will really start to rise up. The news from Europe alone has increased the interest in joining the white supremacy side. This is what you are seeing James. 

So on the one hand the left imports its Jew hating, colour hating and gay hating people and it increases white supremacy as well. It is lose, lose for the left and yet they champion it. 

I am sure in Canada we may start to see this same result if we are not seeing it already. The farther we go down this road the more right wing government we will need to try to correct it.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

You're too easily impressed. Neither Mordko nor wrap killed anything. Wrap quoted irrelevant stats. Mord divided the number of killings by non Muslims by the number of non-Muslims to come up with per capita killings. Cute, but also irrelevant to the headline of the quoted article.

This thread was about white supremacists. The response is to poo poo that threat as irrelevant because Islamic terrorism exist. Seems wrong headed to me but it is what it is. I'm out.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

olivaw said:


> Neither Mordko nor wrap killed anything. Wrap quoted irrelevant stats. Mord divided the number of killings by non Muslims by the number of non-Muslims to come up with per capita killings. Cute, but also irrelevant to the headline of the quoted article.


BS. The headline you quoted claimed that White Supremacists killed more Americans than islamists since 9/11. I have very clearly demonstrated that the statement is false. For one thing the primary source actually shows that islamists killed twice as many Americans since 9/11. And they utterly and deliberately misrepresented the stats by ignoring islamist killings by individuals not affiliated with Al Qaeda.


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

If you may olivaw, why is white supremacy on the rise, if it is?


----------



## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Here is a good short tube on fox news. The interviewer really takes her down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4AfsGGrULI

I think she is stumbling to point out james view.


----------



## olivaw (Nov 21, 2010)

new dog said:


> If you may olivaw, why is white supremacy on the rise, if it is?


Dogcom, I don't know that white supremacy are on the rise but I suspect that American white nationalism is on the rise - these are the folks who want America to remain a majority white country.

Presumably that is a response to a demographic shift. At current birth and immigration rates, the population of whites will fall below 50% of the total American population around 2045. 

Fear of upsetting homogeneity is not new to the US. In the 1920s Congress passed laws to give preferential treatment to immigrants from Western Europe. Immigration from Eastern Europe, Southern Europe and most non-white areas was severely restricted. 

Trump ran on an anti-immigrant platform. The fear among minority populations is that his victory emboldened the crazies - those who choose to express racist and white nationalistic impulses through verbal, physical or social means. The uptick in hate crimes since Trump's victory suggests that their fear is justified. 

My two cents.


----------



## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

There is definitely a growth in the popularity of the far right across the world. Several reasons:

- The far right have been less popular in recent past, so some of it might be just the reversal to averages.

- The level of life has been stagnating or deteriorating. Economics is always a key driver.

- The internet provided a venue for the marginal groups to create critical mass and spread their message.

Still, there is no way to ignore the "in your face" correlation in the spikes of far right popularity every time a theatre is bombed in Paris, a Muslim gang is found to have committed mass rape attacks against underage girls in England or a crowd of North African immigrants commit mass sexual assaults in Cologne. 

Mainstream media and politicians tend to suppress this information because its hard to spin this news in a PC manner. German public broadcasters suppressed information on Cologne attacks. Rumors about Muslim youths forming gangs across England to groom and rape young non-muslim girls circulated for ages prior to police daring to do something about it. 

Large scale immigration from Muslim countries creates major problems. Everyone in the UK knows about Tower Hamlets and Bradford. These are no-go areas; you certainly wouldn't want to send your child to a school in places like that unless his name is Mohammed or Ahmed. In fact, Canadian universities are becoming far less welcoming places for minorities targeted in Muslim countries, e.g. for Jews. Its not just the Jews; Ahmadi Muslims, gays and other minorities targeted in the majority Sunni/Shia Muslim countries are now being targeted in the west. 

The far right have found an opening because mainstream political parties and media are too scared to deal with the root causes of these genuine problems.


----------



## SMK (Dec 10, 2015)

mordko said:


> The far right have found an opening because mainstream political parties and media are too scared to deal with the root causes of these genuine problems.


Political parties aren't scared of anything, just cowardly beyond belief at times, like the Liberals were when they initially refused to declare ISIS guilty of genocide. Any respect I had for Trudeau I lost it, when he "uh", gave his "uh" dumb excuses, all in the name of political correctness not to offend ISIS sympathizers in Canada perhaps. Uh, they were just waiting for uh, "an independent UN study." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJZYLgy41o

Dion, "For the first time, an independent study by the UN has concluded that genocide was committed by the so-called Islamic State against the Yazidis."


----------

