# Minister of Environment requires a security detail



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

CBC reports that the Environment Minister now requires a security detail, due to the persistent threats & abuse she is experiencing:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/th...world-mckenna-now-requires-security-1.5274766



> McKenna is not alone in fearing for her safety. Tzeporah Berman, international program co-ordinator for Stand.Earth, said earlier this summer that she has received death threats and was physically assaulted in the Edmonton airport by a man angry about her campaign to close down the oil sands.
> . . .
> Berman said the threats and attacks against her worsened after Alberta Premier Jason Kenney launched his "war room," a $30-million project to discredit people he says are using foreign funding to undermine Canada's energy sector. Berman and others are being named by the Alberta government and called enemies for opposing the oil industry.


Does anyone have any insights into why there appear to be so many abusive and violent people who feel affinity for the oil sands & the energy industry? I don't recall stories from past years about down-and-out GM workers doing the same things ... stalking politicians, harassing their children, threatening women, etc.

Perhaps it's behaviour stoked by extreme media outlets like The Rebel which try to be inflammatory?

Or maybe the men carrying out these attacks just have misogynist tendencies, or already abuse women. They see a female politician who they disagree with, and resort to the same abusive behaviour they are accustomed to.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

There should be a law against this type of behaviour. No one has ever stalked or threatened a right wing politician or harassed them while they were with their children. Why is it only liberals are subject to such hate?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

doctrine said:


> There should be a law against this type of behaviour. No one has ever stalked or threatened a right wing politician or harassed them while they were with their children. Why is it only liberals are subject to such hate?


I don't understand what you're getting at. Harper was in power for a long time. Did his party members experience the same kind of thing described here?

For example, were there people stalking Peter Kent, threatening to sexually assault him and hurt his children?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Here was another earlier instance, this time about the "astonishing volume of online vitriol aimed at Alberta NDP Premier Rachel Notley"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minister-death-threat-twitter-1.4648886

One of the examples in the _386 pages_ of recorded incidents was an insurance company alerting the government that a funeral home had received documentation for Notley's funeral.

There will always be the odd threat against a politician, and someone occasionally yelling at them, but this degree -- repeated and frequent death threats and sexualized threats to women -- seems out of the ordinary to me.

Or was it always like this?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

James, I don't condone such behaviour one bit, and it is indeed a sad day with some bad apples behave so poorly, but you are somewhat off base. No individuals tried to shut down GM. It was incompetent GM shutting itself down (even with government loans and tax breaks) and mere thousands were affected vs hundreds of thousands. Had Western Canada tried to chase auto manufacturing out of Canada, there most likely would have been blood in the streets in central Canada too. Some people will take it personally when activists and idealogues made it their life's work to shut down someone else's livelihood, mostly for misguided reasons. Leftists and activists do not realize how vicious and uncaring they really are to fellow man and they fail to realize such actions can incent/invite retaliation accordingly.

A great number of Canadians, the majority most likely, understand full well how important the oil industry is to Canada's GDP and the wealth it creates to bring services and infrastructure to Canadians. The global oil industry is alive and well, increasing supply to meet increasing demand every single year. It will still be here 100 years from now, including the oil sands regardless of the misguided efforts of the minority. It is the absurdity of the obstructionists thinking they have a right to shut down a needed industry, that causes some with their backs to the wall to defend their equivalent right to a legitimate living. 

I am not about to get into a pissing contest with you since you are a fervent ideologue/activist/entrenched individual with an obvious and irrational hate on for the oil industry. You will try to rationalize your position regardless of any facts, and if not you, certainly Sags, but your opening post really does show relentless bias in your thinking. 

McKenna seems to have made it her sole mission in life to be supposedly righteous from her own point of view while actually being rather naive and political. She and some fellow ministers need to understand they were elected to serve all Canadians.

Added: Social media has made it convenient in recent times to lob grenades in full technicolor from the safety of a keyboard, It is in all aspects of our lives on almost all subjects, not just vitriol at key figures. The viciousness is coming from all sides.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

AltaRed said:


> I am not about to get into a pissing contest with you since you are a fervent ideologue/activist/entrenched individual with an obvious and irrational hate on for the oil industry. You will try to rationalize your position regardless of any facts, and if not you, certainly Sags, but your opening post really does show relentless bias in your thinking.


It really amuses me how you are building up this story about me and who I am. Apparently I'm also now an activist, with an irrational hate for the oil industry.

... says the oil & gas veteran who cringes at hearing anything negative about his industry.

What exactly about my opening post showed 'relentless bias'? I asked why there seem to be such aggressive people who are defending the oil & gas industry. Do you not agree that the aggression and vitriol coming out of oil & gas is out-of-the-ordinary, by Canadian standards?


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

James, this quote says it all


> Does anyone have any insights into why there appear to be so many abusive and violent people who feel affinity for the oil sands & the energy industry? I don't recall stories from past years about down-and-out GM workers doing the same things ... stalking politicians, harassing their children, threatening women, etc.


 said time and time again in different ways. Your posts are consistently negative about the industry, using hyperbole when you see fit and how you believe it has bought off the politicians and negative to the people supposedly associated with it. You have hurled insults at me many times in your posts over the months, perhaps years.

I have, and will defend, when it is necessary for someone to stand up for it, an industry which has been excessively vilified for what has been mostly a very good job developing our O&G resources in a mostly responsible way delivering considerable wealth for all Canadians. It is not a bogey man any more than any other of our industrial or resource sectors. 

As I already said, I am not going to continue to debate with you for the reasons I have already stated. I am now done with what I felt I needed to say in this thread.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

If I'm reading your response correctly, AltaRed, I think you're saying that these kinds of nasty reactions would happen among any population who is having their livelihood shut down.

But, the government (this federal minister, or past premier) are not shutting down the energy industry or even aiming to shut it down. Alberta is mostly suffering from a bear market in their commodity, which began under Harper.

I stand by the "so many abusive and violent people who feel affinity for the oil sands & the energy industry" comment. AltaRed, you're a proud conservative. Conservatives love brutally honest, hard talk (the kind you hear on talk radio), so I'm giving you some honest and conservative 'hard talk' right now:

If you can step back from your intense emotional attachment to your industry, you will see that the attacks and hatreds of politicians are (a) unjustified, and (b) very out of the ordinary. It really is worth asking ourselves why there is so much abuse and hostility slung at politicians, originating from that industry.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Doesn't McKenna live in Ottawa? I doubt that she was going to a movie in Calgary with her kids. So what makes James assume this sourced from Alberta? These politicians live in a bubble separate from the real world. It sounds to me like there are some local Ottawa folks that have no use for her.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Doesn't McKenna live in Ottawa? I doubt that she was going to a movie in Calgary with her kids. So what makes James assume this sourced from Alberta? These politicians live in a bubble separate from the real world. It sounds to me like there are some local Ottawa folks that have no use for her.


I said, why does such intense nastiness originate from _that industry_, and why does it come from people _who feel affinity for the oil sands & the energy industry_. I didn't say sourced from Alberta.

Whether or not the nasty behaviour came from Ottawa folks, same question applies.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Trudeau government spent billions of taxpayer dollars to bail out a pipeline and will spend billions more to build it.

Last I read Canada's exports to China are zero, and the pipeline could end up the biggest white elephant in Canadian history. 

Yet Trudeau was willing to risk his legacy to take the chance, despite the objections of many of his supporters.

Albertans should be waving "Vote Liberal" flags. What good did the Conservatives in Alberta or Ottawa ever do for them ?


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

But what makes you think it is originating from any industry or affinity? It was about climate.
She's been a moron at times with her comments and speeches. Maybe people just don't like her condescending style or her holy climate disaster attitude.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

sags said:


> I guess idiots threatening McKenna are too stupid to realize the Liberals poured billions of taxpayer money to buy a pipeline and will spend billions more to get it built.


Speaking of idiots, TM is Sohi's file, not McKenna's.



> Oil exports to China don't even exist and the pipeline could end up the biggest white elephant in Canadian history.


Your facts are wrong a usual.



> Yet, Trudeau was willing to take the chance despite the objections of many of his supporters.
> It isn't Trudeau's fault oil prices fell due to overproduction. Albertans should blame the "drill baby drill" conservatives in the US for that.
> It also isn't Trudeau's fault that Alberta spend the last 40 years pissing away all their revenue from oil production........under the watchful eye of Conservatives.


As far as I know, no one is blaming JT for oil prices or Alberta's empty treasury. As always, you rant on, totally off base and with unsubstantiated blather. Senility is a sad way to leave.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> But what makes you think it is originating from any industry or affinity? It was about climate.
> She's been a moron at times with her comments and speeches. Maybe people just don't like her condescending style or her holy climate disaster attitude.


OK, that's interesting. So perhaps people just think she sounds stupid, and that's why they threaten and harass her?

But such aggression is not usually the reaction people have to someone who sounds dumb or uninformed. Not from what I've seen, anyway.

Did the same thing happen to politicians under Harper, when they went around saying stupid things... did people threaten them, plan funerals for them, threaten to kill them, stalk them? Again, I don't remember that happening.

I could be wrong of course, but I think the intense aggression is new. Perhaps Harper's ministers were also constantly abused and harassed, but I don't think that was happening. I don't think Chretien's ministers were getting this kind of abuse either.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

2019.........only 3 tankers loaded at the Vancouver terminal and 0 went to China.

In total, only 17 tankers have gone to China since 2014. Much of that was in 2018 when Alberta oil was cheap.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...-western-canada-after-record-purchase-in-2018


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Environment and Climate Minister McKenna has a lot of responsibilities in oil and other energy sources.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...ation-over-trudeaus-environmental-legislation


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

The mainstream news media, SJWs, leftist academics and leftists generally have gone nuts. They think it's perfectly ok to assault and harass anyone they don't like and even advocate mass murder and genocide. After all everyone they don't like is Hitler and who wouldn't kill Hitler if they got the chance? Even Hitler wanted to kill Hitler.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

James....as the election draws closer and the polls show Trudeau's Liberals likely to form another majority government, expect the Conservative rhetoric to heat up.

Canadian conservatives dislike Trudeau as much as American conservatives dislike Hillary Clinton.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

sags said:


> https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...ation-over-trudeaus-environmental-legislation


The proposed legislation sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Certainly has some points that can be debated, but nothing crazy. Genuine, good faith attempts to improve public policy -- which is what I want politicians to do. Debate and refinement is also part of the process.



sags said:


> James....as the election draws closer and the polls show Trudeau's Liberals likely to form another majority government, expect the Conservative rhetoric to heat up.
> 
> Canadian conservatives dislike Trudeau as much as American conservatives dislike Hillary Clinton.


Yes, absolutely.

I really think that opponents (like Kenney & conservatives generally) are deliberately trying to polarize and stoke public anger. Trying to incite popular outrage. Most of the people expressing anger and sending these death threats will not even be familiar with the details of the legislation.

The conservatives leading this approach know what they're doing. To them, it's an "ends justify the means" kind of thing. Use emotions, rather than solid argument, to win power. Manipulate the public and whip them up into a frothy anger. Focus on issues that resonate with people, such as Alberta's pain point on a deteriorating energy industry.

This is a dangerous and ugly form of politics, including stoking general anger in Alberta, plus anger directed at environmentalists, and anger directed at women. If you pay close attention you'll also see them often feminize Trudeau (obsessing over his hair, calling him Justine) to invoke misogyny in their attacks on him. Really ugly stuff and quite bad for the province & country.

*This is why I'm making a point of it. This kind of anger-based politics is new in Canada, drawing from American techniques, and it's really unhealthy.*


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

doctrine said:


> There should be a law against this type of behaviour. No one has ever stalked or threatened a right wing politician or harassed them while they were with their children. Why is it only liberals are subject to such hate?


There already are laws, they have to enforce them.

There are people on both sides who take it too far.
Look at the case of people doxxing and harrassing the parents of Sam Oosterhoff.

Threats, Doxing, and violence aren't acceptable.

As far as "never happening", I doubt that. 
There is this blind spot that Lefties seem to have, they think all the extremists are on the right. This is crazy.
Antifa is wildly violent.

The problem is that rather than addressing the issues, people would rather smear.
I'd like to back off the my politics are pure and yours are evil and have a real discussion.

How about no threats, and no violence?


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

james4beach said:


> *This is why I'm making a point of it. This kind of anger-based politics is new in Canada, drawing from American techniques, and it's really unhealthy.*


Several Republicans members of Congress have been shot or attacked, Antifa terrorists taking over Portland and committing violence and beating up reporters, Democrat leaders telling people to publicly harass Republicans, Big Tech censoring non hateful right wing speech...and so on.

Even on this board people including mods are allowed to make false claims that Trump is racist but I'm not allowed to make factual comments about Democrats. I have actual proof of my claims, and in fact anyone could find them with an internet search yet no one has yet backed up their false claims of Trump's racism.

You're right, it's unhealthy but as usual you are 100% wrong as to who the guilty parties are.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

AltaRed said:


> Added: Social media has made it convenient in recent times to lob grenades in full technicolor from the safety of a keyboard, It is in all aspects of our lives on almost all subjects, not just vitriol at key figures. The viciousness is coming from all sides.





Prairie Guy said:


> You're right, it's unhealthy but as usual you are 100% wrong as to who the guilty parties are.


I think these two selections sum up the problem in a nutshell. Social media has amplified peoples' reaction to dumb positions among politicians. And Liberals seem to be tone-deaf on anyone who disagrees with them.


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

doctrine said:


> There should be a law against this type of behaviour. No one has ever stalked or threatened a right wing politician or harassed them while they were with their children. Why is it only liberals are subject to such hate?



Lisa MacLeod.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-p...-made-against-minister-lisa-macleod-1.4326928

_"MacLeod said Wednesday she would not make herself available to the public due to threats to her safety._
_The Premier’s Office says she has been given an OPP security detail in light of recent events."_


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm guessing it is getting blown out of proportion. She has made a lot of unpopular policy since getting into office and a lot of people are upset. The Liberals are probably just trying to garner a few more sympathy votes for the upcoming election. Canada isn't going to change the world's climate by imposing more taxes on it's residents, just more pain.


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## Danny (Oct 17, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDsg-CdlJO0 You wander why people have a hard time believing politicians of all stripes. I like to remind people on the left and on the right that when Donald Trump got elected I think the majority of people who voted for him new the guy was sleazy, womanizer, told lies or at least exaggerated everything, and they still voted for him over the regular politician. WOW think about what that say's about you as a politician. YIKES.....


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Mechanic said:


> I'm guessing it is getting blown out of proportion. She has made a lot of unpopular policy since getting into office and a lot of people are upset.



not in the least

if what you are trying to say is that Catherine mcKenna is a bad person who deserved the physical threats, the aggressive attacks & the disgusting obscenities that were carried out against herself & against her minor children, then it's time for all women to stand up & say You are a Throwback to a violent era that prevailed centuries ago & This Must Stop


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> The mainstream news media, SJWs, leftist academics and leftists generally have gone nuts. They think it's perfectly ok to assault and harass anyone they don't like and even advocate mass murder and genocide. After all everyone they don't like is Hitler and who wouldn't kill Hitler if they got the chance? Even Hitler wanted to kill Hitler.



oh stop this ridiculous raving

where have you ever seen any mainstream canadian news media advocating mass murder & genocide? for that matter have you ever seen any canadian academic from a recognized university advocating mass murder & genocide? please get a grip on the language


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Prairie Guy said:


> Antifa terrorists taking over Portland and committing violence and beating up reporters


These are lies from the alt-right. I can speak first hand, as I lived there, and saw the demonstrations in person. I'm an eye witness. Most of the demonstrations passed right by my office building.

The "beating up reporters" PG refers to was a right wing troll and provocateur, described in detail in this recent Rolling Stone article: How a Right-Wing Troll Managed to Manipulate the Mainstream Media

The alt-right has been coming up with these fake stories for a while now, inventing this fiction about a violent left wing to bring more legitimacy (and distract from) the violent elements within the alt-right.


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## condor (Jun 15, 2014)

Along with the ...FAKE NEWS...around us....i can see we also have ...FAKE PEOPLE...on this forum. With trying to bring points of view here...its the same...FAKE PEOPLE...responding over and over and over their distate of anyone who has a different opinion. You dont believe as i do then you are...insane...KKK....yellow vest...white supremisit..anti immigration...bigot ...anti-semetic...homophbic......dont walk on water like us..hate mongers...They use this to argue their point of view.....sad indeed!!!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> These are lies from the alt-right. I can speak first hand, as I lived there, and saw the demonstrations in person. I'm an eye witness. Most of the demonstrations passed right by my office building.
> 
> The "beating up reporters" PG refers to was a right wing troll and provocateur, described in detail in this recent Rolling Stone article: How a Right-Wing Troll Managed to Manipulate the Mainstream Media
> 
> The alt-right has been coming up with these fake stories for a while now, inventing this fiction about a violent left wing to bring more legitimacy (and distract from) the violent elements within the alt-right.


Come on, lefties have been shooting at ICE facilities.
SHOOTING AT LAW ENFORCEMENT!

You keep saying it's political and the alt-right, or the right, or whatever.

The problem is that the rhetoric is getting amped up.
People are getting crazier, and most hostile.

You say the wrong thing, they smear and attack you. You can't even have reasonable discussions, because they want to shut you down, and they're using their power to do so.
Heck if you say I don't think governments current policy on X is the best way forward, they'll call you all sorts of names for many values of X.

I'm not saying there aren't credible threats, and I do think that senior politicians should have more protection.

But I'm also saying that there is a big political advantage to smear and demonize your opponents. 
Almost everyone is doing this. Even here how many times has someone said "right wing violence", as if the majority of the right wing thinks violence is acceptable in political discourse.

The vast vast majority of people, even politically active ones aren't violent, and they're not dangerous.
But political "leaders" are whipping everyone into a frenzy, and protests and actions are getting more extreme, and that's the problem.

Unfortunately they also think whipping everyone into a frenzy about the evils of the opposition is the way to electoral success, and they're likely right.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> But political "leaders" are whipping everyone into a frenzy, and protests and actions are getting more extreme, and that's the problem.
> 
> Unfortunately they also think whipping everyone into a frenzy about the evils of the opposition is the way to electoral success, and they're likely right.


I really wish the political "leaders" wouldn't do this... encouraging frenzy and anger. Especially this nonsense about the "evils of the opposition" (you stated that well).

And as you say, unfortunately, these methods tend to work, because people generally are emotion-driven creatures. Sadly, politicians can win success by these appeals to emotions & anger -- they've been doing it throughout history.

At the same time, because there is public safety in the balance, we can't overlook blatant cases of actual violence and crimes. One doesn't want to play up the emotional and divisive anger, but we also have to stop the unbalanced and dangerous crazies who are trying to carry out violence. If there are certain forces which are feeding them (and I would argue that online-based far right extremism is a big one in US, Canada, Europe) then this has to be tackled, for the public good. There is a much smaller far left extremist movement as well, also dangerous, but it's tiny in comparison.

But that's getting off topic. What I originally raised was the issue of politicians in Canada getting a lot of threats and the increasingly angry political messages.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

james4beach said:


> If there are certain forces which are feeding them (and I would argue that online-based far right extremism is a big one in US, Canada, Europe) then this has to be tackled, for the public good. There is a much smaller far left extremist movement as well, also dangerous, but it's tiny in comparison.


There is substantial bias everywhere we look. I look at The Red Star and The Blue National Post as two examples of biased sources. There are many others online. But as long as we take their reporting with a grain of salt, no harm is done. I even subscribe to The Daily Wire to read right wing bias. Being informed means knowing your enemies.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Have you ever gone down one of those Youtube "rabbit-holes"? It really gets wacky. If you start watching political-themed videos in Youtube, you can quickly enter a sphere of extremely similar, and often increasingly radical videos. Of any political stripe.

I've tried it with both left and right wing stuff. If you want to see what I mean (warning: this is not healthy) first clear your browser cache. Do not log in to Youtube. This resets it to a neutral state. Then start searching for stuff like "socialists are going to destroy America" and start watching the videos. Jump from video to video, as recommended. Before you know it you will be watching nazi videos calling to round up immigrants, paramilitary training to prepare for the coming race war, etc.

Then try the same experiment, again reset your cache, search for "corporations are destroying America". Watch a few of those, and it will take you down a rabbit hole, to videos endorsing sabotage and other radicalism.

I suspect web sites like these are screwing with people's minds. In my tech circles, I've heard Youtube described as an "*automated online radicalization machine*". Facebook does the same thing, because both platforms will try feeding you more of what you seem to like. It becomes an echo chamber and can even alter your reality, if you spend all your time on Facebook, Youtube, Twitter.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ Add "reality tv" too ... self-brainwashing. I thought this "eyes glue to the screen/monitor" was a younger gen phenomenon but it also seems to be affecting the older population too ... examples will remain nameless here.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> ... Did the same thing happen to politicians under Harper, when they went around saying stupid things... did people threaten them, plan funerals for them, threaten to kill them, stalk them? Again, I don't remember that happening.


??? ... I can find several references to Harper, Wall, Ambrose receiving death threats.

Why's a failed Liberal candidate that wants to argue Jason Kenney was abusing the parliamentary housing allowance tweeting out Jason Kenney's widowed mother's address, the name of the retirement village where she still lives and a floor plan of her previously owned bungalow? 




james4beach said:


> ... I could be wrong of course, but I think the intense aggression is new.


How about actual attacks?
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ation-interrupted-by-gunshots/article4518887/

Or how about the assignation of Tory MP Darcy McGee?

Or maybe the dummy grenade left with the commissionaires at Langevin Building, which at the time housed the offices of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and his staff?
Or the knife wielding intruder to 24 Sussex while the Chretien's were there?

I seem to recall that MacDonald received a lot of death threats over the hanging of Riel.

Paul Joseph Chartier walked into the Parliament Building in Ottawa carrying a bundle of dynamite which he apparently planned to toss into the Commons in '65. His plan to be come PM didn't go so well when his bomb exploded in a washroom, killing him.

How about those killed by the FLQ bombings or Pierre Laporte?


Seem more intense to be shot, bombed or executed.


FWIW ... I don't agree with any kind of threats but through Canadian history, they have existed, right up to deaths and rebellions.


Cheers


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks Eclectic12 for the history. I didn't know about the 1965 dynamite incident - wow.

This is good context. It could be that what we're seeing is (sadly) within "normal". And the Quebec incidents were very serious indeed. It appears that Canada has had more political violence than I thought.

Examples from recent history: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/timeline-a-half-century-of-canadian-security-threats

OK, I am now more convinced that what's going on today is within bounds of normal. Perhaps I was suffering from availability/recency bias.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Sometimes politicians invite criticism because of things they say.

Andrew Scheer spent the weekend getting roasted on social media for some of his comments.

The latest is his constant claims of growing up poor while Trudeau grew up wealthy. It has a created a new Twitter game....."Scheer was so poor that"....

He really needs to get some more experienced people around him.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/ScheerW...goes-after-andrew-scheer-for-growing-up-poor/


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## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

Eclectic12 said:


> ??? ... I can find several references to Harper, Wall, Ambrose receiving death threats.


I remember something about a terrorist plot to cut off Harper's head was foiled. When asked if he was concerned, Harper replied that he would be concerned if the calls for his head had come from his caucus.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> I really wish the political "leaders" wouldn't do this... encouraging frenzy and anger. Especially this nonsense about the "evils of the opposition" (you stated that well).
> 
> And as you say, unfortunately, these methods tend to work, because people generally are emotion-driven creatures. Sadly, politicians can win success by these appeals to emotions & anger -- they've been doing it throughout history.
> 
> ...


Part of the problem is your constant claims it's mostly far right extremism, that's like saying most terrorism is muslim.
It's a blame game that gets us nowhere.
The vast majority of people, of all types, are NOT the problem.

We have to balance finding the dangerous ones with not demonizing large groups of people.

Also I personally object to the current usage of "Nazi, White supremacist, Far right" etc being used today.
They are simply slurs with no real meaning or thought behind them.

Some moron called Daryl Davis a white supremacist. They're being used to the point they have no meaning.

What really needs to be stopped is the constant demonizing of people you disagree with or don't like.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Part of the problem is your constant claims it's mostly far right extremism


My claim isn't the problem. In the US, Canada, Europe, there is a significant growth in violent far right extremism. It deserves attention because it's on the rise, and the levels are quite high. In the USA for example, far right extremism is one of the biggest categories of terrorism, besides muslim extremism.

It would be irresponsible to start ignoring violent extremism that exists in our midst. I'm not going to start pretending the groups don't exist.

The Quebec City mosque massacre, the New Zealand massacre, the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre, the British MP murder, the German MP murder, and countless other acts of violence are all linked, part of a white supremacist / far right movement that is clearly gaining steam in recent years.

Blame? Yes absolutely you blame groups that commit violence. And you ask questions such as: why are they on the rise? Why aren't security and intelligence services stopping them? How can we keep ourselves safe from them?



MrMatt said:


> What really needs to be stopped is the constant demonizing of people you disagree with or don't like.


You should call out people who are actually inflicting harm, or inciting other to commit violence. There is a moral responsibility to do so. These people need to be stopped, because they're a danger to the public.

On the other hand, people who just hold opinions you dislike, or political policies you disagree with... they should not be demonized, if their speech is not causing or inviting harm.

Thankfully, there are no politicians in Canada who are explicitly inciting violence or inviting harm to citizens. We should be thankful (and I am). Other countries are not so lucky.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

sags said:


> Sometimes politicians invite criticism because of things they say.
> Andrew Scheer spent the weekend getting roasted on social media for some of his comments.
> The latest is his constant claims of growing up poor while Trudeau grew up wealthy. It has a created a new Twitter game....."Scheer was so poor that"....
> He really needs to get some more experienced people around him.
> https://twitter.com/hashtag/ScheerW...goes-after-andrew-scheer-for-growing-up-poor/


There goes sags trying to change the thread channel again.

You should have added that Scheer never actually said he grew up poor. Discerning liberals came up with that twist.
But yes, JT did grow up with a silver spoon. That may be why he is now such an entitled, narcissist who lives in a bubble without a clue. Made worse by the ego-boost he received when liberals pleaded and begged for him to save their failed *** with his name and connections as his only assets.
I'm sure you must get a chuckle out of the twitter game, but I'd say it merely highlights the despicable underbelly of liberals who think that their own **** doesn't smell.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> My claim isn't the problem. In the US, Canada, Europe, there is a significant growth in violent far right extremism. It deserves attention because it's on the rise, and the levels are quite high. In the USA for example, far right extremism is one of the biggest categories of terrorism, besides muslim extremism.
> 
> It would be irresponsible to start ignoring violent extremism that exists in our midst. I'm not going to start pretending the groups don't exist.
> 
> ...


Except for Liberal MP Adam Vaughn who called for the assassination of Doug Ford.
Oh wait, after people pointed out that it is inappropriate to advocate for the murder of politicians he retracted it.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MrMatt said:


> Except for Liberal MP Adam Vaughn who called for the assassination of Doug Ford.


He did not. Here's the incident:



> On Saturday evening, Adam Vaughan said his Twitter post was in reference to a cartoon featuring Ford’s face and a whack-a-mole game.
> . . .
> Vaughan replied: “So Frod’s [sic] gang could get folks upset over hurting Kindergarten students instead of being angry over the damage he’s done to University students. Next he will go after young offenders & end “free school” in detention centres…instead of playing whack-a-mole; Let’s just whack him.”


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

MrMatt said:


> What really needs to be stopped is the constant demonizing of people you disagree with or don't like.


I have found this to be common among Liberals. They use strawmen to label people that disagree with them. They have all kinds of such labels like alt-right, deniers when in reality they have no idea what the people that disagree with them are thinking. And they don't care.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

james4beach said:


> MrMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Except for Liberal MP Adam Vaughn who called for the assassination of Doug Ford ...
> ...


It's about two years and roughly seven months to the next Ontario election.

The tweet is suggesting a switch from dealing with each bad decision/policy as each arises to a one time solution.
What in your view non-violent action that deals with Ford more efficiently?


Unless Vaughan somehow knows Ford is calling an early election - it seems odd to be using "whack" when voting him out is so far down the road.


Cheers


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> There goes sags trying to change the thread channel again.
> 
> You should have added that Scheer never actually said he grew up poor. Discerning liberals came up with that twist.
> But yes, JT did grow up with a silver spoon. That may be why he is now such an entitled, narcissist who lives in a bubble without a clue. Made worse by the ego-boost he received when liberals pleaded and begged for him to save their failed *** with his name and connections as his only assets.
> I'm sure you must get a chuckle out of the twitter game, but I'd say it merely highlights the despicable underbelly of liberals who think that their own **** doesn't smell.


Well stated. Truth. It will set set you free Mr. Sags. See it for a change.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

@ Kcowan: Pro-lifers have much the same zealousness. Can't (or don't want to) see where they are, or may be, misguided.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

james4beach said:


> MrMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Except for Liberal MP Adam Vaughn who called for the assassination of Doug Ford.
> ...


Did you even read the article? 

Exactly, he said "let's just whack him"
Then several hours later retracted it. 

Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt, the words he put on Twitter, called for inappropriate violence. 

If I said let's k-them, and then said, no I was referring to k-ing their chances of winning the election. That would also be inappropriate.

There simply is no place for threats or implied threats in political debate.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Andrew Scheer spends the first 5 minutes of every interview attacking Trudeau. He has repeatedly alluded to Trudeau's "affluent" upbringing in a derisive manner.

Scheer uses the kind of rhetoric that spawns the kind of bad events that McKenna endured.

The Conservative Party official website posts a picture of Scheer with this quote......

_Im a kid who grew up in a townhouse, in a family that didn't own a car, whose mother lived with her eight siblings in a two-bedroom house on a dirt road, and today I am running to be Prime Minister_

His parents earned $120,000 a year in the 1980s, which is equivalent to $218,000 a year today.

Poor....I hardly think so. Now Scheer has responded to critics by saying he had a middle class upbringing that Trudeau couldn't possibly understand.

Andrew Scheer wasn't poor or middle class but he might have known some people who were.....


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Andrew Scheer spends the first 5 minutes of every interview attacking Trudeau. He has repeatedly alluded to Trudeau's "affluent" upbringing in a derisive manner.
> 
> Scheer uses the kind of rhetoric that spawns the kind of bad events that McKenna endured.
> 
> ...


Please provide any support for your claims on his upbringing.
I don't recall him ever claiming they had no car. Or that they were poor. 
You should provide a link where he states this. Based on the history of unsubstantiated statements I doubt you will be able to support them. 
Lots of places have dirt roads, they are quite common in Canada. 


Also Trudeau grew up in the politically connect jet set, where hanging out with the Aga khan. A world where a phone call is all it takes to get you off criminal charges. 
Yeah, Trudeau really doesn't understand.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Scheer's own words on the official CPC Twitter site.

I find it odd that the Conservative site contains more about Trudeau than Scheer. I guess they got nothing better to talk about.

https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ

_Their father, Jim Scheer, was a proof reader, researcher and librarian from 1971 to 2008 at the Ottawa Citizen. The newspaper’s union contract shows that he would likely have been making at least $66,000 when he retired. Their mother, Mary Scheer, who died in 2017, worked for more than three decades as a registered nurse at Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario (CHEO). By the late 1990s—around the time her teenaged son was getting active in politics—CHEO’s contract with its nurses’ union shows an experienced RN was earning about $55,000, before overtime.

Taken together, Jim and Mary Scheer appear to have steadily earned considerably more than the median for Canadian families, which Statistics Canada says stood at $68,800 in 2003, the year Andrew Scheer moved out of their townhouse and relocated to Regina, the hometown of his future wife, Jill._

It is fine to question the Trudeau and the Liberals record, but Scheer makes it personal. It is a direct page from the Stephen Harper "nice hair" playbook.

It won't work any better now than it did then. The Conservatives are pandering to their base which creates the kind of situation McKenna had to deal with.

Canadians want to know what the Conservative agenda is......not about Justin Trudeau's inheritance.

Also noteworthy that Andrew Scheer enjoyed a lifestyle in a family with 2 unionized worker incomes. Nice.........so why does he not like unions much ?


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

sags said:


> Scheer's own words on the official CPC Twitter site.
> 
> I find it odd that the Conservative site contains more about Trudeau than Scheer. I guess they got nothing better to talk about.
> 
> ...


Where did Scheer say he was poor?
Where did Scheer say they didn't have a family car?

You made claims, and have failed to back them up.
I think you're just trolling. Making allegations with apparently nothing behind them.


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