# Retirement Travel - Truck and RV Trailer



## avrex

I'm not retired yet, but I'm picturing my first phase of retirement.
In this first phase of retirement (say the first 10 years) I want to be active and travel and discover different places.

Perhaps spend time in the US Southwest (Arizona, Utah, Texas, for hiking and cycling) and some time in Florida (for some slower activities, like golfing and beach time).

I'm thinking, one of the best (and cheapest) ways to accomplish this is with a truck and RV trailer.










*Let's do a calculation.*
The cost of a new truck, $40k. The cost of a new RV trailer, $40k.
Let's say, that I utilize both of these items for 10 years. In other words, after 10 years, I'm older and I've become tired of this lifestyle and want to slow down. We'll also assume the cost of these two items depreciate to zero after 10 years. Therefore, my cost is $8k per year.

Let's say, I want to spend 3 months per year in the USA. RV park costs depend on the individual park and the length of stay. It could cost anywhere from 500-1500 per month. Let's use $1000 per month as an average. Therefore, the 3 months accommodation charges would be $3k.

In total, *my 3 month costs would be* (8k+3k) *$11,000 per year.*

This truck/RV combo means I don't have to fly to my destination. I don't have to rent a car for 3 months. I don't have to pay for further accommodations. I can prepare cheaper, healthier meals, in my trailer. The truck gives me the freedom to set my trailer down in an RV park and continue on day tours. The trailer could stay in the park for a day, week or month. I'm free to go wherever and whenever I want.

Also, I could continue to use the truck as my main vehicle for the rest of the year in Canada.

All in all, *I think this is a reasonable cost*, for this kind of freedom and lifestyle.

Any current retirees do this? and can comment on this lifestyle?
thanks.


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## Davis

Some years ago I drove through Newfoundland in a rental car staying in B and Bs. I talked to some RVers who said they thought that because of the cost of gas, they were not saving any money.

Looking only at the costs you've set out, I think this is probably the case. If instead of the truck and RV you bought a $30,000 car, your annual depreciation would be $3,000 instead of $8,000, leaving you $8,000 to spend on accommodations instead of $3,000. This would give you $90/day to spend on motels and B and Bs.

Looking beyond that, you would spend a lot more on gas with the RV, and even just driving the truck for the other 9 months of the year. On the other hand, the RV allows you to save on meals since you can prepare your own and eat in restaurants less. 

The RV would be inconvenient for visiting cities where trailers parks may be far out of town or not exist.


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## canucked_up

Not that it makes much difference, but.... A $40.000 trailer is getting fair sized. Any amount of pulling, you're going to want a diesel truck. New with a few bells and whistles will run you to $50,000 easily.


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## RBull

Have you read this thread? Read the post by OldPro for a typical snowbird evolution re RVs.

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/38009-Florida-Retirement-Option

I would ask if you have traveled in an RV before or been to any of the parks to see if you like the lifestyle. I don't think you can rent a 5th wheel but if you can it would be great to try it out, or at least in a rented RV to see how you like it. 

I am familiar with a large RV park (1400 site) in south texas with probably the most facilities in the state. FYI, it's 579/mth plus electricity. however Texas is known to be a cheaper area. Florida is not.


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## Eder

I've rv'd the last five years...in my case I bought a motorhome and tow a jeep behind. We love the life so much that we sold our house and then bought a sailboat which is similar to our rv' ing lifestyle. I am happier doing this, never miss owning a house.
I would suggest don't wait till you are near death...go now.


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## avrex

RBull said:


> Have you read this thread? Read the post by OldPro for a typical snowbird evolution re RVs.
> http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/38009-Florida-Retirement-Option


Yes, this evolution is very interesting. 
I'll include his quote here.



OldPro said:


> A lot of people when they retire like the idea of buying an RV to tour and to winter somewhere south in. Most of them also follow a pattern. They discover it's not so easy to stop along the way in a motorhome and tend to just drive directly to and from a destination where they park it for however long. ie. the winter. There goes touring. Then they discover it's not so easy to drive the RV into town to get groceries or something so they need a vehicle that they tow for doing that or change to towing a 5th wheel to have a separate pickup truck. Then they decide there's little point in driving it back and forth for the winter and having to deal with storing the RV back home somewhere. So they rent in an RV park by the year and leave the RV down their all summer. Then they discover that if you are staying in it for 4-5 months in the winter you need more space so they sell and buy a park model that never moves. Then they discover that paying for the year and being stuck with only going to that one place gets boring. Finally, they end up renting a park model for the winter and having the flexibility to change where they go every year if they want.


I can't afford a 200k motorhome. 
Plus, as he states, it's not easy to drive the motorhome into town for groceries.

That's why *I like the Truck and RV trailer* idea.

I agree with what @OldPro is saying.
I've always believed that there will always be different phases of retirement, in which there will be different lifestyles.
Perhaps at some point, my wife and I will get tired of touring around and want to settle in a model home or something. That's ok too.

But, for *Phase One* of my retirement, I definitely want to do some major traveling.
I think the Truck and RV trailer idea could be a way to do this.


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## avrex

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> We've kind of swung the other way recently, thinking we should instead travel lighter with a Honda C-RV and then 'rent-a-month' or stay in B&B/hotel for shorter term accomodation. Among our considerations though are other family commitments that make it uncertain how long and how many times we would be out on the road. Can certainly see pros to your plan. Interested to hear how others have traveled NA in retirement with or without their 'home' in tow.


We've done a lot of car camping, with a tent, over the years. Coincidentally, also with a Honda C-RV. 

Also, a couple of years ago we rented a small Class C RV vehicle for 2 weeks.
We toured the Rocky Mountains from Banff down to Denver, Colorado.

We like the campground / RV park lifestyle.



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Oops, also DW has ideas of more trips across the pond


Ideally, my wife and I would also like to spend some time in Europe.
Perhaps we would go for a few weeks a year, as a break from the North American RV park lifestyle.


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## humble_pie

i can't comment but surely with a rig like this, you would have already sold your house in canada? you'd be free as a bird? having invested the house $$ to boost income?

a california couple sold their house to travel the world. They didn't RV, they flew, mostly all over europe. They rented houses & apartments in their favourite cities for longish periods of time, such as a month to three months, so they could live the local life & truly get to know each country a bit.

wife Lynn recently wrote a book & the couple seems to be travelling much less now, staying much longer with adult married children in the US of A. I get the feeling that wandering without roots might be fun & fine for a few years, while 10 years might bring on a touch of homesickness.

http://homefreeadventures.com/


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## OldPro

Well first of all let me say that everyone is different. Some like eder may be happy to live life in an RV till they die. Others such as my wife, having tried living in an RV once for 3 months(another story and irrelevant) never want to see an RV again in their life. I agree that life is not stagnant in retirement. That is, interests change over time and you do go through phases just as you did before retirement. So you have got that part right in my opinion avrex. 

I've been retired for 25 years and while I have nothing against it, I have never owned an RV. I have however known a lot of people who were retired and did own RVs. I also have a Brother who is retired and who full-timed in an RV (class C) for 3 years. He then sold the motorhome and now owns a truck and trailer just as you are considering. However, he now has the trailer up for sale saying he's done with that. So what I know about RV life is second hand but from quite a few different sources all of whom I have spoken with personally about what they have found over time. That is the source of the outline I gave and you quoted above.

So here are my thoughts on what you have written. First, a truck and trailer has the advantage over a motorhome in that you can set up the trailer and then still use the truck. With a Class A or C you cannot do that obviously and that is why people like Eder tow a vehicle. I can't see any advantage to that combination over a trailer and truck combo. I believe the motorhome plus tow vehicle combo is probably as a result of having discovered the need for a separate vehicle after having bought the motorhome. Perhaps Eder could tell us how they arrived at their combo decision.

Whether you go with a truck and trailer or motorhome and tow vehicle combo, both are not 'tour friendly' in my opinion. Unless tour means parking in places for a minimum of a week or more at a time. What I'm getting at is you cannot easily get into more remote areas and just stop for a day or two to look around. You are limited to fairly good roads. You can also find as one couple I know did, that smaller park campgrounds may not even be able to take your rig size wise and/or that it is just too much hassle for a weekend trip. They had a truck and 5th wheel (30ft) and ended up buying a truck bed camper to use for summer weekends in Canada while leaving their 5th wheel parked in Yuma, AZ and driving to it from BC each winter. Setting up, leveling etc. an RV over and over can become a real bore, real quick.

My wife and I are big on hiking and have spent a lot of time in the US Southwest. In a few places, an RV of some kind would be a plus. For example, Organ Pipe National Monument, southwest of Tucson, has an RV park but there is no real decent motel accommodation within 100 miles of it. On the other hand Chaco Canyon National Park, northwest of Santa Fe, has no RV camping and in fact it is not reccommended that you try to drive an RV on the dirt road that goes into the park.
http://www.nps.gov/chcu/planyourvisit/directions.htm Similar examples exist all over the place obviously. The point is that if you are happy driving directly to an RV park in Florida or Arizona or wherever for the winter, that's no problem. But if you really want to tour in it as you suggest you see yourself doing in 'phase 1', there are limitations and you need to be prepared for that. For example again, Chaco is an amazing place. If I wanted to visit there I would leave the RV in a campground elsewhere (Bandelier National Monument perhaps) and drive the truck to Chaco taking a tent and the bikes.

Regarding the $40k truck and $40k trailer. Your numbers are much higher than they need to be in my opinion. My Brother bought a 3 year old pickup (probably off a lease) with only 20,000 Km. on it for $20k including tax. He then bought a 5 year old 18ft trailer (he's single) which had been towed to Florida and back to Ontario only twice since brand new, for $10k tax in. Both as near to new as you can get for $30k compared to your 80k figure. Let someone else lose on the depreciation. The truck was still under warranty even. Buy smart, you can never get that capital back. By the way, he is now hoping to sell the trailer for $5k cash and questioning if he even got $5k (the loss IF he can sell it for $5k) of use out of it. He hauled it to Florida twice in 4 years that he's had it. He would in hindsight have probably been better to have just rented somewhere for those 2 winters. But, he wasn't in 'phase 1' of his retirement.

Regarding your other costs. Your RV and truck depreciation plus campground fees are not the only costs to consider. Fuel is a big number to add and there are a lot of other smaller costs. Propane fuel; insurance both for the truck and trailer and travel insurance; electricity if you use it in a campground is usually an additional metered cost; maintenance of both is a real cost also and there are other small costs as well. The point being your depreciation plus $3k(for 3 months) is too simple an estimate. There is also no question that the more you use the RV the better in terms of spreading the cost. Why limit it to 3 months once a year? Why not 3 months twice a year for example.

Selling your home to become a 'full time RVer' is a whole other story with many other pros and cons. But there is no point going into that unless you are considering it AFTER having RVed for a few seasons at least. I think of the RV lifestyle as much like vacations in that while it is great to visit a place for a few weeks and you may love it, living it full time is a completely different story. No different from someone who loved a vacation in country X and then decides to move their in retirement. Something I have personal experienc with having lived in several countries since I retired. Of all the people I met who tried it, I'd say 50% gave it up within 2 years and only between 1and 2 were still there after 5 years. What suits some doesn't necessarily suit most. I'd guess full time RVing probably has similar numbers.

So my advice is a bit more research before taking the plunge of buying avrex. Here's a thought. RVs of all types are easy to buy and HARD to sell. Ask anyone who has tried (and I'm not talking about trading in one RV for a bigger one at a dealer). With that in mind and thinking of my Brother's situation as an example, I wonder if someone were to look at RVs for sale privately, if you couldn't find one that suited you and offer to rent it for 3 months instead of buying it. Either a straightforward offer to rent or maybe even a 'rent before you buy' offer. I would imagine if someone offered my Brother (as an example, I'm not suggesting it to you personally) $2000for a 3 month rental and then he gets it back and still tried to sell it for $5k, he might consider it. After all, it is just sitting parked in a storage yard this winter and he is paying to park it! Insurance would have to have a work around of some kind. Owner loaned it to a friend? What if you did this and rented one every year for several years? You are considering a $4k per year depreciation on a trailer. Why not consider a $3k per year trailer rental cost instead?


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## tygrus

avrex said:


> All in all, *I think this is a reasonable cost*, for this kind of freedom and lifestyle.
> 
> Any current retirees do this? and can comment on this lifestyle?
> thanks.


Retired but I don't RV. I watched my parents try it after dreaming about it for 10 years and they hated it. When you get older you want convenience. Their RV took ton of gas to drive around, took tons of time to maintain and then living in crowded noisy campgrounds was awful. Driving on the highway in wind or poor weather conditions was always a white knuckle experience too. They spent more time on the RV than on the vacation. 

They sold it and now just book flights and hotel rooms. $80k plus $11,000 per year buys a lot of hotel rooms and flights if you book carefully. You can even rent a house for a few thousand a month and do day trips out of it with a good SUV. 

Before you buy, you should rent one for a season. I hated staying in them because they are really cramped, even the expensive ones. The bedroom is like sleeping in a closet and if you are little claustrophobic, it will not be fun.


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## OnlyMyOpinion

We also considered a Taco with a Four Wheel alum pop-up camper to provide more portability to more remote locals. We don't think the RV trailer park scene is for us (never tried it though) and I really don't like towing a trailer. Truck camper is cramped obviously but our rationale was that it is pretty well 'only a place to sleep'. Then we realized that having a truck camper as the primary vehicle for toodling about out of the campground was not ideal.
We're planning to begin some touring this year and as noted earlier, will try a combo of 'rent-for-a-month', hotel/B&B, and will even travel prepared for a bit of tent camping if conditions are favourable. This before committing to an expensive 'carry-your-house with you' solution. As noted, we can pay for a fair bit of accommodation with the cost we'd have tied up in a rig. And importantly for us, we'll have maximum flexibility. "I could go east, I could go west."


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## humble_pie

swiss-born Emil & Liliana Schmid left home to travel the world in their SUV 31 years ago. They're a world record, i'm not sure whether for years on the road or for distance travelled, possibly for both.

they always drove the same vehicle. Reportedly a toyota, although some accounts say it was a mercedes. The story goes Emil took more than 50,000 unpublished photographs, many of them extraordinary although at the time no one ever saw them. He passed away recently. The world then discovered the photographs.

already in her 70s, Liliana kept on driving, alone. Same vehicle, goes the story.

http://www.digidrift.com/travel-emil-and-liliana-schmid-world-record-journey/

.


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## OldPro

Yes Only, even a truck camper can get shook up a lot depending on where you take it. 

My wife and I have done some real off-roading in our SUV and I can tell you I wouldn't want to try it with a truck camper waving from side to side as you go over a boulder. Everything has it's pluses and minuses. 

If your wife is game to consider camping, what about this as a possible solution.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=car+...v&sa=X&ei=YJb8VP6xB9WlyAT_r4GIDg&ved=0CDEQsAQ

This line looks simple and runs around $3-4k.
http://www.autohomeus.com/rooftop/columbus.php

True nomads indeed humble.


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## Eder

I don't stay in "trailer parks" . 

At present I am camping on the beach just north of Los Barilles Baja Sur. We made it down the Baja fine even though Odile beat the crap out of some spots (many with fifth wheels are down here as well). Since December we have stayed on the ocean at Mulege, San Quentin, Silver Strand State Park in San Diego, Carlsbad State Park, a high end shangi la in Las Vegas and on the other ocean in Marathon, Florida, and many many more pristine spots in between...so much for the theory of having to find a trailer park & squat in some desert for the winter. We usually move every 3-7 days. Over the years we've been coast to coast 3 times, almost every State in the US, Mexico...next season we are planning a trip as far as Panama...it beats putting up with bad food/service/bedbugs etc ...try a black light on your sheets in your next hotel room!

I was going to explain how mistaken most comment was going on this thread, but this post is getting to be a novel so I'll leave it like this. I hope you have fun Avrex,I'm sure you will love it.


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## m3s

humble_pie said:


> swiss-born Emil & Liliana Schmid left home to travel the world in their SUV 31 years ago.


For a second I thought you were speaking of Gunther & Christine Holtorf who left Germany in a Mercedes G Wagon after the fall of the Berlin wall. Their stories are almost identical! I'm sure they must have crossed paths at some point as many travelers do. I think Gunther & Chrstine may have actually topped their world records though. They allegedly surpassed 800,000 kms and mentioned several countries not on the world record list. Gunther & Christine even got their truck into North Korea! It's a lot easier to travel the Balkans now but we can only hope that MENA will be safe again.






A diesel Land Cruiser or G Wagon is really the biggest vehicle you _need_. They will go more places and much further than those white plastic things bumbling around looking for the next RV parking lot. What are people carrying in those!? Motorbikes are even better. They go even more places while burning even less gas and parts. Even better than a motorcycle is a bicycle! Less is more really. I thought I started out pretty minimal but with every trip I take less and less _stuff_. It's cheaper and far more enjoyable to just buy local than to lug everything with you from home.


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## cainvest

m3s said:


> Motorbikes are even better.


Like taking an R1 around the world


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## OnlyMyOpinion

OldPro said:


> Yes Only, even a truck camper can get shook up a lot depending on where you take it. My wife and I have done some real off-roading in our SUV and I can tell you I wouldn't want to try it with a truck camper waving from side to side as you go over a boulder.


That's why we were looking at the 4wheel pop-up camper. Closed, its CogG is low and they are supposed to be able to handle tough conditions.



OldPro said:


> If your wife is game to consider camping, what about this as a possible solution.
> https://www.google.ca/search?q=car+...v&sa=X&ei=YJb8VP6xB9WlyAT_r4GIDg&ved=0CDEQsAQ
> This line looks simple and runs around $3-4k.
> http://www.autohomeus.com/rooftop/columbus.php


Good suggestion as an alternative to a tent. We're actually considering these - quick to put up, take up no cargo space, etc. I actually used one way back in 1972 on the roof of a Datsun 510 for a summer of 'go west young man' (now that was a good summer). I looked and was surprised they are still around as we don't see them on the road.


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## avrex

Eder said:


> Since December we have stayed on the ocean at Mulege, San Quentin, Silver Strand State Park in San Diego, Carlsbad State Park, a high end shangi la in Las Vegas and on the other ocean in Marathon, Florida, and many many more pristine spots in between...so much for the theory of having to find a trailer park & squat in some desert for the winter. We usually move every 3-7 days. Over the years we've been coast to coast 3 times, almost every State in the US, Mexico...next season we are planning a trip as far as Panama...it beats putting up with bad food/service/bedbugs etc


@Eder, what you describe sounds great. That's the type of travel/retirement that I'm looking for. Thanks for your comments.


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## carverman

Davis said:


> Looking only at the costs you've set out, I think this is probably the case. If instead of the truck and RV you bought a $30,000 car, your annual depreciation would be $3,000 instead of $8,000, leaving you $8,000 to spend on accommodations instead of $3,000.
> T*his would give you $90/day to spend on motels and B and Bs. *


+1 ^^^^

The gas alone for a truck pulling an RV 18 to 20ft trailer will cost that much per day. If enroute, you encounter some steep interstate hills as in the southern or eastern US..the truck will be pulling in lower gears, and from owning a truck and pulling a small trailer, I know from experience that the truck will be switching from overdrive (which is what saves the gas on these trucks), to lower gears a LOT, which will cost $$$
more in terms of fuel consumption. 



> Looking beyond that, you would spend a lot more on gas with the RV, and even just driving the truck for the other 9 months of the year. On the other hand, the RV allows you to save on meals since you can prepare your own and eat in restaurants less.
> 
> The RV would be inconvenient for visiting cities where trailers parks may be far out of town or not exist.


Have to agree The cost of the truck, the gas it consumes, and trucks today even with better fuel economy are STILL GAS hogs.

Pulling a light 20ft house trailer (as in the picture above) produces considerable drag on the truck, so the fuel economy while the trailer is attached goes down to 6 to 10mpg . Maybe in the US where gas is cheaper it may still work out economically, but the USA just like Canada is a BIG country and there is a LOT of open road/interstate to get to point A or B.

The RV does allow you to sleep inside. prepare meals and relax after a long days journey, but you still need to find a camp ground along the way to be able to park it for a night, or two or even a few days if you happen to like the place.

In the winter months, you have to drive pretty much all the way down to the southern states to avoid freezeup in the trailer plumbing and toilet..frozen pipes there can be very expensive, so that means. either you start your trip in mid November before the snowstorms and cold weather hits the Canadian-US border states, or you will have to drain the lines/toilet and holding tank and head down south where the temps don't go down much below 0C at night... BEFORE you can use the trailer plumbing again.

So that means $$$ for motels and restaurant meals for 2 or 3 days, until you get to warmer latitudes where
overnight freeze up on the water lines/toilet inside is no longer an issue. 

That means 3 or 4 nights in a motel in any case, depending on which way down to the US you are going (Arizona or Florida). 

Now the costs...spending $40K on a truck and $40k on a RV trailer that you may only use for 2 or 3 trips down to the US doesn't make economic sense to me. You can find a nice used travel trailer (around 5 years old or so) that is capable of doing those kind of long mileage trips, and the only thing you will have to replace is the tires (4 trailer tires x $100 each) every 20,000 to 30,000km.

You do not want to travel month after month or year after year on questionable trailer tires..one tire with a blowout can make the trailer sway and you could lose control...serious trouble!
Trailer tires are a high maintenance item along with axle bearings due to the weight of the trailer and the mileage it will be subjected to.

It may very well that after the first LONG Distance initial trip, it's better just to park the trailer long term in an area that has all the amenities, and then do day trips with the truck from the camp ground.


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## OldPro

Let's not lose sight of what it is avrex wants to do. That is what matters here, not just cost.

Frankly, I don't think anyone can justify an RV rig of any kind based on cost alone and conversely, I don't think anyone can rule it out based on cost alone. If you are willing to drive a compact car and stay in the lowest cost Motel 6 etc. type accommodation while eating at MickeyD's or the like, chances are a car and motels will be cheaper than any RV over the long term. BUT, there are a whole lot of other factors that should be taken into consideration. To suggest that one way is better than another way based on one factor alone is a very poor way to make any decision.

What avrex is looking for is the best answer for them, not the best answer for any of us. For example, Eder has indicated they are very happy with their motorhome and tow vehicle. I can accept that. OnlyMyOpinion has rejected the idea of a motorhome, trailer or even truck camper, for various reasons. I can accept that just as easily as I can accept Eder's choice. This is not a case of there being one right answer. Avrex is not asking for the one right answer for everyone, he is looking for the right answer for them.

So while it think it is a good thing to point out all the pros and cons of each choice, the objective here should be to help avrex make a decision, not push one answer to the exclusion of all others. Some questions do have a RIGHT answer, but not all questions do. 

As for cost, well I am always reminded of a guy who sat down next to me in a bar some years ago. He wondered who was driving the little classic convertible sports car parked outside. As it happened, it was mine and so I said I was driving it and it was my everyday 'ride'. He then asked, 'why are you driving a car like that as an everyday ride?' Before I could answer, the person sitting next to my other side in the bar answered him with, 'because he can'.

The point being, you do not need to cost justify everything you do. If you can afford to do it, that is the ONLY justification you need for doing it. If avrex can afford to spend $80k on a rig then that's his choice. Nothing wrong with suggesting he could do it for less but less is not a reason for him to not do it if he chooses to.


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## OnlyMyOpinion

And spending your money for a lifestyle/pursuit in retirement that makes you happy is as important as the cost. This thread is good in poviding pros & cons on both the cost and lifestyle implications. Flipping the coin over and over this way will help some of us land on a plan we'll be happy with - Thanks for that!
Got to admit, the hotel bed horror stories give me second thought, but that would be a small subset of our nights, and we've traveled/hoteled extensively and only ever had 1 dump. When it comes to specific accomodation and good food, things like TripAdvisor, Thorntree and Google streetview provide a pretty good source of pros/cons. It was not that long ago that you bascially had to cross your fingers and book.


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## RBull

AVREX, some great points on this and some stuff taking it a little off track too. Ultimately though I agree its more than an economic decision; its lifestyle too and all about what you and your spouse want. Sometimes people on this forum people can get obsessed over costs/issues without considering much what others can afford themselves, or that others spending and/or lifestyle priorities are very different from theirs. 

Based on what you're posting it sounds like you're a good candidate for what you're planning for stage 1. To me if you can test it out with rentals or even continue to tent and associate with a lot with people who have gone through years of RV's/trailers you'll have a lot more knowledge to base your decision on. Joining an RV online forum is going to give you a lot of insight into the lifestyle, what to look for and avoid so when you're ready you'll be better prepared. 

Good luck


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## OldPro

Eder, have you come across Holtville on your travels? Specifically, the BLM Hot Springs there. 

There are no hook ups so you need a generator or solar power and you have to drive into town for a pump-out but the great attraction besides the BLM prices is the hot springs. As any RVer knows who has ever boondocked, hot water is an issue. Not at this place. 
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/ltvas/hotspring.html

https://www.google.ca/search?q=holt...&ei=eH4AVYHJFM6uyATl_YHoAQ&ved=0CCUQsAQ&dpr=1

It gets a lot of winter visitors and many of them are regular visitors. My Brother spent a month or so there for 2 winters running and I visited him there one time. As many hot showers as you want courtesty of the springs. Here is a blog on it. http://geosuzie.blogspot.ca/2014/01/back-to-dry-camping-at-hot-springs.html


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## Eder

We have driven past the hot springs many times but have yet to drop in...looks like I should, clothing optional might scare us away though.

At any rate one thing missing in this thread is that after you grow tired of your rv you can easily sell it, and if you bought one used and good quality you may break even...try that with your airline tickets and Motel 6 receipts.

In my case my motor home is now worth what I paid for it as I bought it new in the US five years ago when our dollar was at par. If you want your significant other to enjoy rving as much as you you should let her decide what style/type /floorplan etc of rv she is willing to rough it in otherwise it will be a short lived adventure....happy wife happy life definitely rings true in rvs and sailboats.


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## nobleea

My wife's relatives retired recently and bought an RV. I think it's a 36' model with a diesel pusher. They bought it used, i think it was 3yrs old. 50K. They tow a base model ford fiesta behind it which gets them wherever they want to go. They've been up and down the west coast (Van to san diego) a couple of times and spend summers putzing around BC and WA in it.


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## carverman

nobleea said:


> My wife's relatives retired recently and bought an RV. I think it's a 36' model with a diesel pusher. They bought it used, i think it was 3yrs old. 50K. They tow a base model ford fiesta behind it which gets them wherever they want to go. They've been up and down the west coast (Van to san diego) a couple of times and spend summers putzing around BC and WA in it.


Now that IS RVing at it's finest, even if these diesel pushers cost over 100K today for a new one. Once I saw some Americans pull in with these for an overnight stay in my (former) campground. 

Watched as the driver got out, hooked up the water lines and electricity, adjusted the satellite dish, and operated the self leveling stabilizers on the RV..that was all they had to do and then they sat out enjoying the lake view and a beer.:eagerness:


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## RBull

nobleea said:


> My wife's relatives retired recently and bought an RV. I think it's a 36' model with a diesel pusher. They bought it used, i think it was 3yrs old. 50K. They tow a base model ford fiesta behind it which gets them wherever they want to go. They've been up and down the west coast (Van to san diego) a couple of times and spend summers putzing around BC and WA in it.


If your specs and year are correct they stole that. $100K would be cheap. New is 200K+ range.


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## m3s

OldPro said:


> The point being, you do not need to cost justify everything you do. _If you can afford to do it, that is the ONLY justification you need for doing it_. If avrex can afford to spend $80k on a rig then that's his choice. Nothing wrong with suggesting he could do it for less but less is not a reason for him to not do it if he chooses to.


It is a lifestyle choice like any other.. but downsizing is not just all about saving money either. Many seem to buy the biggest motorbike, truck, house etc etc because _they can afford it and it's their life._ I feel that this is often driven more by marketing, salespeople, consumerism, status etc as it is by lifestyle and personal preference. A huge RV can significantly limit your travel options, as does a huge motorbike. If you spend more on the vehicle, you have less to spend on the actual trip... or have to work longer (retire later, less time to travel!) etc etc

I've had a gf for awhile now, so I thought _I could afford_ to relax a bit and just enjoy life. Well that extra bit of weight has to go everywhere I go and has more downsides than I expected :highly_amused: Yea sure _I can afford_ the extra food.. but there are far more disadvantages besides the cost. I feel like people don't realize how many side benefits their are to downsizing. Go with the smallest you can live with (likely smaller than you think) rather than the biggest vehicle _you can afford_.. It's much easier to upgrade than to downgrade later on (same with your diet!)


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## Eder

RBull said:


> If your specs and year are correct they stole that. $100K would be cheap. New is 200K+ range.


I think 400 is low end....600-800 gets nice unit....2 mill for the best. ( buy used 10 years old...50 k gets a decent condo on wheels)

M3s... I met 2 people in Loretto BCS...they were each on a unicycle to Argentina...they started in Montreal...I guess that is downsized enough!


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## m3s

Eder said:


> M3s... I met 2 people in Loretto BCS...they were each on a unicycle to Argentina...they started in Montreal...I guess that is downsized enough!


I think a bicycle would be a pretty sweet way to travel south. But too inconvenient for me. If only there was a friendly powerful animal would carry people wherever they wanted.


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## humble_pie

Eder may we nominate you to author the next travel doc: How we Sold the House and Bought a Sailboat plus an RV to Prevent the Offspring from Moving Back Home.

am i recalling correctly a photograph of your sailboat that you once posted here? she was gorgeous, a graceful vessel anchored off a rocky pine-clad gulf island in BC, bright sunshine, sparkling dark blue water.

what do you do with her in the wintertime, when you're busy driving from coast to coast & roaming over the southern cordilleras? even more prosaic, how do you receive mail?

no one else adventures year-round on a boat plus an RV, there has to be a travel bestseller here.


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## Eder

Actually a sailboat/rv combo is very common amongst travelers. We have left our boat infront of the Empress hotel in Victoria the last 2 seasons, I have been getting teary thinking of soon getting back aboard her.

We have friends in Medicine Hat that receive our mail...most stuff can be done online and internet is almost everywhere.

I doubt that any travel best seller is forth coming...my lifestyle is more common than those still tied down can imagine...today I watched a 250 lb and at least 70 year old guy hop on his kite board and get 20 feet of air off the first decent swell. There is redemption for us all, but 1st we must seek it.Every day I stand in awe of those that truly have a story to tell.


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## dBII

That's what we do. I have a Taco and full height camper and we took it on two 7 week road trips. It has the advantage of going anywhere and really isn't hard on gas. You have to like being close...like really close, but we have a blast in it. We have a Pastime camper and it weighs less than 1000lbs.


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## RBull

Eder said:


> I think 400 is low end....600-800 gets nice unit....2 mill for the best. ( buy used 10 years old...50 k gets a decent condo on wheels)
> 
> M3s... I met 2 people in Loretto BCS...they were each on a unicycle to Argentina...they started in Montreal...I guess that is downsized enough!


No argument here. Plenty for sale in Texas where I am.


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## hboy43

m3s said:


> It is a lifestyle choice like any other.. but downsizing is not just all about saving money either. Many seem to buy the biggest motorbike, truck, house etc etc because _they can afford it and it's their life._ I feel that this is often driven more by marketing, salespeople, consumerism, status etc as it is by lifestyle and personal preference. A huge RV can significantly limit your travel options, as does a huge motorbike. If you spend more on the vehicle, you have less to spend on the actual trip... or have to work longer (retire later, less time to travel!) etc etc
> 
> Go with the smallest you can live with (likely smaller than you think) rather than the biggest vehicle _you can afford_.. It's much easier to upgrade than to downgrade later on (same with your diet!)


The above is SO the mantra in boating. The saying goes something like the sunset looks the same on (say) a 22 foot boat as it does on a 50 footer. Personally, I have enjoyed my 18.5 foot camping experience for what it is and so far have not felt the desire to get my (or more correctly, my wife's) 32 footer restored as the amount of work it needs is just stunning.

If you read between the lines of my situation, the lesson might be that the maintenance person should be the same person that has the buy decision rights ...

hboy43


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## nobleea

RBull said:


> If your specs and year are correct they stole that. $100K would be cheap. New is 200K+ range.


Maybe I don't have the right year. But it's definitely a 36' unit and they paid 50K. They had their eye on this particular unit (it was on consignment) for many months, and kept on returning, pushing the same offer. Eventually the seller agreed. Maybe the year is right, but it's not a pusher unit.


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## OldPro

The term 'afford' is meaningless unless you define what it means to an individual. Someone with $1mil to through around can look at $200k and say, that's cheap as cheap can be. Someone with $250k they've set aside for setting them up for their retirement plans could say, OK, we can afford $200k but if buying 2 years old will only be $80k, that's relatively cheap. Someone with only $10k to allocate sees it all as beyond their means. It really is an individual thing.

Downsizing can also be taken too far. I think I mentioned here or on another thread that my Brother has a trailer for sale right now. It's only an 18 footer, 2005 model but like new as they say. I think it has made 4 trips Ontario to Florida and back in it's life and that's it. Anyway, two days ago he got a call regarding his online ad (Kijiji). He paid $10k for it and has it listed for $10k since the fall. He had a few calls but no real bites till now. So this couple phoned from Florida where they are wintering in a 14 footer. Hence my comment re downsizing can be taken too far. It's their first year retired and they bought a trailer thinking small was better for all the usual reasons. Now they have found out that too small is not better. 

As anyone who has spent time in an RV will tell you, there are a couple of basic things that will drive a lot of people nuts. Like a shower that requires you to dry the entire bathroom including the toilet seat every time you use the shower. Look for a separate/contained shower. Or a bed that is a real pain in the butt to make up because it fits right up against the walls. Look for a 'walkaround' bed. My Brother's little 18 footer has both of those. Instead of designing the trailer to sleep the maximum number possible, someone actaully designed his model to be suitable for a couple. 

So back to the couple in Florida. Realizing that their trailer is just too small for comfort, they've been searching the ads for a replacement. My Brother's appears to be ideal for what they want. They specifically asked, 'is it a walk around bed' and 'is it a separate shower?' They're learning obviously. They offered him $6750 sight unseen (subject to inspection when they get their obviously) and since he was in fact prepared to accept anything over $5k, he accepted. The reason they made the offer over the phone is because they won't be back home in Ontario till the end of April and as it seems ideal, they didn't want to lose it to another buyer in the meantime. My Brother runs no risk unless someone shows up before then with a better offer.

Affordable is a relative term and downsizing has its limits like everything else.


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## carverman

nobleea said:


> Maybe I don't have the right year. But it's definitely a 36' unit and they paid 50K. They had their eye on this particular unit (it was on consignment) for many months, and kept on returning, pushing the same offer. Eventually the seller agreed. Maybe the year is right, but it's not a pusher unit.


well you did mention "I think it's a pusher unit in your reply". :biggrin:

it's been a long time since I was looking at RVs at an RV dealer in my area, but I didn't think you could get one of
those pushers for $50k even if you happened to be at the right place at the right time.
There are lots of diesel RVs as anything over 28 feet becomes a bear to tow with a truck..especially in tight places
or in city traffic turning corners.


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## RBull

nobleea said:


> Maybe I don't have the right year. But it's definitely a 36' unit and they paid 50K. They had their eye on this particular unit (it was on consignment) for many months, and kept on returning, pushing the same offer. Eventually the seller agreed. Maybe the year is right, but it's not a pusher unit.


Fair enough. Still sounds like a good deal though.


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## hboy43

m3s said:


> I think a bicycle would be a pretty sweet way to travel south. But too inconvenient for me. If only there was a friendly powerful animal would carry people wherever they wanted.


~200 pounds of sled dog and a tricycle could do it. My 38 pound dog loves to run with me hooked up to the tricycle.

hboy43


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## m3s

I was thinking more of a horse. They are faster and eat hay instead of meat. But now I'm imagining a sailboat carrying a motorbike. Portable hard shelter and land mobility!


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## humble_pie

Eder said:


> Actually a sailboat/rv combo is very common amongst travelers. We have left our boat infront of the Empress hotel in Victoria the last 2 seasons, I have been getting teary thinking of soon getting back aboard her.
> 
> I doubt that any travel best seller is forth coming ... Every day I stand in awe of those that truly have a story to tell.



but you do have a story to tell. You are a good writer. Great sense of humour. 

i've never heard of anybody who kept their sailboat tied up in front of the Empress Hotel. Wonderful anecdote. Does it mean you get to put on black tie & go over for champagne cocktail & dinner whenever you're in port & the mood strikes?

i bet the photographs are winners too. Please, might we have a little adventure blogging now & then?


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## Toronto.gal

Eder said:


> We have *left our boat infront of the Empress hotel in Victoria *the last 2 seasons.....


I see it!


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## OnlyMyOpinion

Ooh, and I like red!:biggrin:


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## Eder

Haha, I cant afford a slip here in summer, which it looks like on the pic, but last season I was on the nearest slip occupied by the trawler...this season I am further to the left in the pic...close to Redfish Bluefish restaurant. 

HP...I can put on a black tie & jacket but champagne is rather frowned on , you can get afternoon tea and a scone for about $35 though.


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## hboy43

m3s said:


> But now I'm imagining a sailboat carrying a motorbike. Portable hard shelter and land mobility!


That has been done too I believe. Certainly plenty of bicycles on larger sailboats.


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## hboy43

Eder said:


> Haha, I cant afford a slip here in summer


One of the good old boats I like is the Spencer 1330. Perhaps you have seen one. Only 25 or 30 ever made and I only know of one on the east coast. Anyhow, while snooping a listing of one once, I got the impression that it would be ~ $10,000/season for a slip on the west coast. Belleville is MUCH more reasonable.

hboy43


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## jambo411

We have traveled on a motorcycle. Only made 3 trips so far but as my last day of work is Saturday I hope for many more. I bought the biggest bike I could (2009 Victory Vision) as I am large (fat) and the DW and I travel together. The big bike is the only one with the carrying capacity that I need. The Goldwing, for all its size, has a small payload. In addition the big bikes are comfortable and we have put some long days in. The cruise control, sound system and heated seats are nice. We don't camp, we just start looking for a reasonable motel near a restaurant. After a long day a tub is nice. Currently it works for us but we will re-evaluate in a few years. 

In addition we have a boat that we can take extended cruises.


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## birdman

I did not review your projected costs but we have done lots of camping with our children in tents, tent trailers, trailers, etc. After retirement we settled on a GM 3/4T 4x4 6 litre PU and a 19 ft trailer. Both suited our needs at the time (2003) and continue to do so. Now, the truck is a gas guzzler at about 11 mpg; however, we did not use it a lot and initially went south to Utah and area for sightseeing and hiking in those great state parks they have. Often travelled with another couple. Also made a trip to Alaska and still take it fishing for a week or 2 a year. Unfortunately my better half prefers motels whereas I prefer the trailer. I really like the size of our trailer which cost $23,000. (your 40,000. seems high). I find it easier to find a spot to park the trailer as opposed to looking for a motel where you don't know who slept in the bed last. Also, I like the convenience of making your own meals realizing of course you still have the option of going out. Now, while we still use the trailer a bit it (and the truck) is used by one of our children and their children for a couple of weeks every year. Also, while the truck is a gas guzzler, it isn't used much and is a 2003 with only 130,000 kms and hopefully it will last another 5 yrs. I also use the truck for off-roading huning and fishing and carrying an old camper I have for doing same. I tow a utility trailer for my ATV.
Unfortunately there is no on particular RV unit that will do everything thus the reason I have an old camper which I paid $800.00 for and have had it for about 6 years. Of course the truck is useful for lots of other things and and also serves as a second vehicle.
Full time RVing is not for us as we enjoy our large yard and garden and have many other activities here at home. Overal, I think the truck and trailer (suggest 22 ft with an island queen bed) is the way to go and I think you are on the right track here. I never really worried about the cost but suggest the capital costs you suggest could be high and the life expectancy of the vehicles is really quite long, particularly in our case. Go for it and enjoy.


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## avrex

Linking this thread to the relevant thread,

Snowbirds - Great accommodation and travel destination ideas.


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## naysmitj

Just sold our RV. You may not be able travel for $1,500 CDN monthly given the U. S. exchange. It can cost upwards of $3K USD monthly to enjoy life.

Here is a site of good info.

http://www.frugal-rv-travel.com/index.html


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## Eder

Costs me like 5k/month but then that includes upgraded wine.


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## avrex

naysmitj said:


> http://www.frugal-rv-travel.com/index.html


Thanks for the link.



Eder said:


> Costs me like 5k/month but then that includes upgraded wine.


LOL. :encouragement:


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