# Buying individual bonds through Questrade



## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

As I discovered earlier this year, bonds are free to buy and sell at Questrade. All one has to do is pick a bond from the daily Bonds Bulletin, and then call the bond trade desk to place the order.

Sounded easy enough, and since neither I nor my husband like bonds ETFs, I thought that buying say five 5K bonds (to start) in our RRSPs and holding them to maturity would be a better alternative.

Well, not as easy as I thought, as there're not that many 5K bonds to begin with, and even less "safe(r)" bonds that yield more than 2.5% (as 8% of our portfolio is currently at People's Trust 2.5% TFSA, we don't see the point of buying bonds that yield less)

I've been reading the bulletin for a few months now, the selection doesn't seem to be changing much, but at least I narrowed down the potential candidates to two groups: 

1) strip bonds (as we don't need the income in the near future) 
2) higher yield energy bonds (some are selling with negative spreads)

Now, I think I've read all there is to read about bonds, but since I never purchased one before - would appreciate an advice from those who have experience buying individual bonds. Or at least if someone could verify my "translation" - to make sure that I understand the terms correctly 

*Here're my current top choices:

1) Strip bond:*

CUSIP: 30390ZAV9 
Face Value : 20000 
Issuer: FAIRFAX FINANCIAL 
Maturity: 6/22/2020 
Price: 84.31 
Yield: 3.34

Translation: Pay 16,862 now - Receive 20K in 5 years 

*2) Energy bond:*

CUSIP: 89347ZAC1 
Face Value: 5000
Issuer: TRANSALTA CORP (BBB-/BBB)
Coupon: 7.30
Maturity: 10/22/2029 
Price: 113.82 
Yield: 5.87 
Spread: (20.41)

Translation: Pay 5,691 now - collect 5.87% yearly for 14 years (unless the company goes bankrupt or redeems the bond earlier; on maturity, you only get 5K back)

Thank you in advance!


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## scorpion_ca (Nov 3, 2014)

I was wondering what is the reason that you guys don't like bond ETF. 

FYI - Here is the link from CCP website regarding bond vs bond etf http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/03/29/bonds-v-bond-funds/


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

scorpion_ca said:


> I was wondering what is the reason that you guys don't like bond ETF.
> 
> FYI - Here is the link from CCP website regarding bond vs bond etf http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2010/03/29/bonds-v-bond-funds/


Bond funds don't have a set maturity. In a rising rate environment you may have a hard time getting your money back without taking a loss.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

@scorpion_ca, the short answer is "not worth it" (we just sold CBO last month - breaking even after the rate cut, and before it dropped again), but here're a couple of quotes from more recent articles (and from other sources )

"For now, my friend is taking refuge in cash and dividend stocks. In my own case, I’ve cut back on a traditional bond mix in favour of a selection of GICs, high-interest savings accounts and ETFs that hold emerging-market bonds (which are risky, but pay higher yields than Canadian ones, and may benefit from future currency gains). *As bond yields languish, the question is why more people aren’t looking at similar workarounds.*"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/who-needs-bonds/article24043720/

"With their diversification and other benefits, bond ETFs are still a great portfolio building block. *But if you’re trying to maximize yield and don’t mind some extra risk, then holding individual bonds can get you a higher yield. *That’s no small advantage in today’s low-rate world."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...r-by-a-nose-individual-bonds/article12143091/


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Moneytoo said:


> As I discovered earlier this year, bonds are free to buy and sell at Questrade.


Bonds are free to buy at most (all?) brokers. The "free" part is an illusion. You are buying bonds from the broker's inventory, not on the open market. The broker acts as a counterparty. Broker's commission is buried in the price you pay. Retail bond market is notorious for bad pricing and lack of transparency.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

GoldStone said:


> Bonds are free to buy at most (all?) brokers.


Well, I wasn't buying bonds at my previous broker, TD Waterhouse, but looked at Scotia iTrade recently (thinking that they might have a better selection): Enjoy commission-style pricing – $1 a bond ($1 per $1,000 Face Value, $24.99 min/$250 max)** with no markups or hidden fees.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Scotia model is a step forward. They show an explicit commission, whereas other brokers hide it in the bond price.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Moneytoo said:


> ...not as easy as I thought ... would appreciate an advice



pretty good, especially the part about understanding that there'll be a nasty capital loss 14 years from now when transalta matures. With inflation going the way it does, one has to try to imagine what $5000 might buy in the year 2029? if the currency hasn't been officially devalued into the Amero by then.

also, is that a 5.87% coupon on the transalta? if so, current yield would be less than 5.87, which would have been calculated upon the bond priced at par when issued. Current yield would have to be calculated on paper that costs 113.83.

also 5.87% looks questionable as a yield-to-maturity on the transalta, it's w-a-a-a-y too high. Yield to maturitiy has to price in the big capital loss.

for these reasons, i'd avoid the 2029 transalta paper.

the Fairfax looks OK but only if held in tax-protected registered account. When held in non-registered, the CRA alas requires that notional interest income be reported every year & income tax paid thereupon, even though nothing has been received.

you didn't mention what kind of account, but the above is important for strip bonds. Folks normally hold them in registered or else not at all.

another concern i'd have with fairfax is Who is going to succeed prem watsa? he's been the godfather of fairfax forever, i can't imagine the place without him. But he's getting on, how will fairfax look 5 years from now?

if this sounds gloomy re your choices, it's only because all bonds are looking gloomy these days. You've seen wise folks in cmf forum talking about going to shorter-term GIC ladders, i believe i'd heed their suggestions!

one last thing: Questrade is indeed charging a hefty hidden bond commission, probably at least 2%. Many brokers state one bond price only to their retail clients, but on their wholesale side - when they acquire the bonds in the first place from the institutional dealers - there's a big buy/sell spread. When the broker bond desks sell to the retail clients, they normally mark up by close to 2%. The price you or any other investor is quoted includes that big commission.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

GoldStone said:


> Scotia model is a step forward. They show an explicit commission, whereas other brokers hide it in the bond price.


Thank you, something to keep in mind for the future (maybe open a separate account when we have 50K+ just for bonds - currently we have too many accounts as it is )


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> pretty good, especially the part about understanding that there'll be a nasty capital loss 14 years from now when transalta matures.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Thank you for such a detailed reply! Looks like a lot more to learn, as usually... sigh 

The original Transalta coupon was 7.30, added it to the first post. (I figured Questrade quotes yields taking higher price into account)

Was considering bonds for RRSPs (keep forgetting that people have unregistered accounts - we're not there yet, only RRSPs and TFSAs, not yet maxed out )

So yeah, looks like PT 2.5% TFSA is still the best Fixed Income portion option - for us, for now...


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Agree with H_P's points. We keep investment grade corp strips in our RRSPs as a fixed income, slightly better yielding alternative to a GIC. No surprises if held to maturity. Very convenient to buy on line through webbroker and replace maturing issues. Not buyers of bonds as we don't need the regular interest income.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Agree with H_P's points. We keep investment grade corp strips in our RRSPs as a fixed income, slightly better yielding alternative to a GIC.


If I may - what companies and terms do you prefer? I was thinking to start with shorter terms (3-5 years) and noticed that BCE strips usually have the best yields. But I already own BCE common shares (that yield 5%+ on cost), so didn't seem smart from diversification perspective to also buy their bonds (that yield less, even longer terms) There was a good Loblaw strip, but longer term (not sure if I want to "lock" the money for 10+ years - as H_P pointed out, who knows what inflation will be by then...) Thank you!


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Moneytoo said:


> Looks like a lot more to learn, as usually... sigh



not to worry, you've already done nearly all of the work. Your picks were good, the problem is that bonds are offering next to nothing these days. There are certainly professional advisors who suggest Buy & Hold Individual Bonds to Maturity, in order to avoid the bond market fluctuations that beset bond funds. 

the Fairfax might be OK for the registered account. Perhaps you might browse on their website to see what kind of succession plan they have in place, if any? or google for news stories?

the fairfax yield might be higher than could be obtained from a GIC ladder but the latter would be CDIC insured, the corporate strip would not be insured.

the reason i've never owned fairfax stock is that legendary founder Prem Watsa is notoriously information-&-media-averse. He almost never grants interviews to journos. He publishes the regulatory minimum of info & financial data re fairfax, nothing more. It's a standoffish trait that some investors don't mind, but one i find a bit off-putting.

nevertheless watsa is recognized as a brilliant rescuer of deep-distressed companies. 

watsa is said to be good friends with warren buffett, in fact may been have the mentor who taught buffett how to salvage & restore failed companies by issuing new high dividend-paying convertible preferred shares or bonds that are either convertible or have warrants attached. IE watsa re-funds the distressed company & in return he receives the convertibles.

once the fallen company is thriving again, it's a bonanza for the genius financial engineer. It goes without saying that some of the projects fail totally & disappear forever, leaving the convertibles worthless.

buffett was later to carry out this strategy spectacularly with GM & goldman sachs during the terrified fall of 2008.

re your transalta pick, the current yield Questrade is quoting you of 5.87 is indeed correct. The yield to maturity could be in the 3% range, though, due to the capital loss.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Moneytoo said:


> If I may - what companies and terms do you prefer? I was thinking to start with shorter terms (3-5 years) and noticed that BCE strips usually have the best yields. But I already own BCE common shares (that yield 5%+ on cost), so didn't seem smart from diversification perspective to also buy their bonds (that yield less, even longer terms) There was a good Loblaw strip, but longer term (not sure if I want to "lock" the money for 10+ years - as H_P pointed out, who knows what inflation will be by then...) Thank you!



(postscript) OnlyOpinion will have better info, of course, but in the meantime comparing BCE common to a BCE bond stripped residual is apples & oranges. The security of the strip will be much higher. The common could fluctuate but the strip, with a mid-term maturity such as 5 years, will more or less march sedately upwards towards its maturity at par with minimal shivers & quivers.

as for choice, yours will be what the broker can offer.

here's a hint i was told once: only the giant underwriting firms take up the new bond issues directly from the treasuries of the gummints & the corporations. In multi-million & fraction-billion $$ lots. Firms like RBC-Dominion Securities, TD Securities, etc.

the giants in turn sell pieces on to a series of middlemen bond houses. What i was told (no way to know if true) is that their minimum lot is something like 500k to 1M, they are reluctant to break these whole lots.

the middlemen in turn break up the lots further & sell pieces onwards until finally smaller lots of the new bonds reach the bond desks at brokers & institutions. By this time there are are often remnants, ie somewhere along the line a bond dealer was only willing to buy 200k of a 250k lot, for example.

the bond desks end up with these remnants & tend to price them on the low side, in order to get them out of inventory as quickly as possible.

such remnants are perfect for retail investors who have already decided they're in the market for bonds of that profile, though.

your fairfaxes may be such a remnant, their yield does seem a tad high.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> the Fairfax might be OK for the registered account. Perhaps you might browse on their website to see what kind of succession plan they have in place, if any? or google for news stories?
> 
> the fairfax yield might be higher than could be obtained from a GIC ladder but the latter would be CDIC insured, the corporate strip would not be insured.


The funny thing is, I've been watching the Fairfax common stock - and decided it's too unpredictable for my liking lol But was surprised that their strips have higher yields than same term strips from other companies - and "forgot" about the other "warning" that I read recently (to avoid financial bonds in the near term)

Before that Fairfax strip became available, the best options seemed to be BCE and Loblaw. Here's for example *Loblaw midterm strip (matures May 2022)*:

Face value: 5K
Price: 82.94
Yield: 2.66

But, again, not such a good deal compared to People's Trust TFSA currently at 2.5% (with money that can be withdrawn anytime...)


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## al42 (Mar 5, 2011)

Anyone have a chance to look at CBO?
Yield is around 4% but it shows YTM at around 1.6%.
Is this ETF getting ready to take a large Capital loss when the bonds it holds start maturing?


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> ... in the meantime comparing BCE common to a BCE bond stripped residual is apples & oranges.
> ...
> such remnants are perfect for retail investors who have already decided they're in the market for bonds of that profile, though.
> 
> your fairfaxes may be such a remnant, their yield does seem a tad high.


Both BCE and Fairfax have the highest yielding strips (of larger face values and other terms as well) But it seemed weird (to me) that they don't get snatched right away and remain on the list along with strips from other companies (that seem very overpriced) That Fairfax strip has being available for more than two weeks I think, making me wonder what's wrong with it?..

I was wondering if there's a way for retail investors to buy bonds directly from the issuer - thank you for covering that...


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

al42 said:


> Anyone have a chance to look at CBO?
> Yield is around 4% but it shows YTM at around 1.6%.
> Is this ETF getting ready to take a large Capital loss when the bonds it holds start maturing?


There was an article about CLF and CBO on MoneySense I think - how you're not really losing money if you're DRIPing...

Anyways, from our personal experience - we bought CBO for $19.73 last April, sold for $19.76 this March (when it went up after BoC rate cut), and, technically, it did yield 4%. But if the rates stayed the same, it would keep dropping every month or two (when its holdings mature - because apparently all higher-yielding bond ETFs buy bonds at a premium...)

But I didnt believe it last summer (arguing on this forum with those who knew better )


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Moneytoo said:


> If I may - what companies and terms do you prefer? I was thinking to start with shorter terms (3-5 years) and noticed that BCE strips usually have the best yields. But I already own BCE common shares (that yield 5%+ on cost), so didn't seem smart from diversification perspective to also buy their bonds (that yield less, even longer terms) There was a good Loblaw strip, but longer term (not sure if I want to "lock" the money for 10+ years - as H_P pointed out, who knows what inflation will be by then...) Thank you!


Our current RRSP holdings include 37 strips maturing each year from 2015-2022. I see 4 provincials (PEI, NS, Man, Que) and 15 various municipal/corp strips. These include BC Tel, Bell, BMO, BRP, CIBC, Fairfax, GECC, GTAA, Lobl, MCCF, Nfld Lab Hyd, Ont Hyd, Que Hyd, TCPL, Transalta. All of these were bought as investment grade (BBB or better). I thought Transalta may have slipped below but it looks like it still carries triple B.
I would say it is very important to diversify/spread risk by having no more than say 5% of your fixed allocation in any one issuer. We also own shares in the same telcos, banks, pipelines and don't factor that into the 5%.
Again, these are our GIC-alternatives, we buy and hold till maturity, content with whatever yield we locked-in upon purchase. Since these were bought over the last ~8yrs and int rates have continued to trend down, we currently show an 18% capital gain, but this will bleed away as the strips approach maturity.


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> I would say it is very important to diversify/spread risk by having no more than say 5% of your fixed allocation in any one issuer. We also own shares in the same telcos, banks, pipelines and don't factor that into the 5%.


Thank you, that pretty much answers my questions (and should give us more choices as I was also not considering Transcanada bonds because my husband owns its common shares) 



OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Again, these are our GIC-alternatives, we buy and hold till maturity, content with whatever yield we locked-in upon purchase.


Yeah, I'm still having a hard time convincing my husband that we need some bonds in RRSPs in addition to his GIC-like TFSA - he wants to wait till bonds yield more than 4%, who knows how long it's gonna take... I'm trying to be more realistic, but then get tempted by riskier bonds


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

"Fools recommend" to buy Bonds, Loblaw and gold   Gold we already have, so I think I'll start with Loblaw Strip. Here's my current shortlist (the prices went down/yields went up a bit since last week):



*CUSIP**FACE VALUE**ISSUER**MATURITY**PRICE**YIELD*53948ZFU55,000LOBLAWS COS CPN STRIP2022-05-2382.212.8009281ZCD38,000BLAINVILLE PRIN STRIP2023-07-2479.292.8430390ZAV920,000FAIRFAX FIN CPN STRIP2020-06-2284.073.41

Will watch for a couple more weeks (won't have the cash till mid-may anyway... )


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Bought a Loblaw strip for myself yesterday morning (price was slightly higher than quoted in yesterday's Bonds Bulletin, 81.39, but the yield was almost 3%, so good enough ) and Fairfax strip for my husband today - price was slightly lower than quoted in bulletins:


*QUOTE**CUSIP**FACE VALUE**ISSUER**MATURITY**PRICE**YIELD*Bond Bulletin May 2030390ZBP1$105,000.00FAIRFAX FIN CPN STRIP2020-08-1987.893.07Phone quote May 2130390ZBP1$7,000.00FAIRFAX FIN CPN STRIP2020-08-1987.453.09Bond Bulletin May 2130390ZBP1$98,000FAIRFAX FIN CPN STRIP2020-08-1987.693.13

So the prices do fluctuate even during the day and you need to call in to get the best quote. Takes about 15 mins to place an order (wait on hold, give all the info, wait on hold again while they check for the best price, confirm the order) It's better to call after 9am (first time I called at 8:40-ish, and the agent had to call me back "in 15 minutes" with the price; today I called 9-40-ish - and just waited on hold while she verified the price)

How they calculate the yields is beyond me, and I was utterly surprised to learn that the Face Value is just the number of units so to speak (I wasn't even looking at strips with large FVs since I thought we'd have to buy the whole lot - but nope, bought 7K of 105K Face Value and it was reflected in today's bulletin, so at least this part makes sense )

At this point I prefer riskier bonds with shorter durations/higher yields (oil collapse? housing bubble? Quebec separation? Pick your pony! ):


*CUSIP**FACE VALUE**ISSUER**MATURITY**PRICE**YIELD*89348ZBY1576,000TRANSALTA CORP PRIN STRP2019-11-1885.813.4537252ZAV119,000GENWORTH CAN PRN STP2020-06-1586.632.8609281ZCD38,000BLAINVILLE PRIN STRIP2023-07-2478.732.95

Bonds can be fun, too! :biggrin:


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Moneytoo, you look as a SME in strip bonds... I got curious and check my CIBC IE strip bond offering, the one with highest yield is

Issuer: FAIRFAX FINANCIAL (I enter amount to invest 10,000) and got
Coupon: 0.0% 
Maturity: Oct 14, 2022 
Type: Strip Bond 
Class: Residual 
Credit Rating: BBB 
Yield: 4.021% Semi-Annual, 4.061% Annual 
Face Value: $13,395.00 
Price (Per 100): $74.6509 
Accrued Interest: $0.00 
Estimated Cost: $9,999.49 

So in 7.3 years (Oct 1033) I gonna get 13,395 in cash back to my account with no fees?
Looking at annual yield, my undestanding that even though coupon is 0, yield is calculated compounded? because if it just 4.06% annual, Iwould get around $12960 and not $13395.....

Not clear how many "share-bonds" I gonna see on account ? 10,000/0.746509 = 13,395?


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Not a SME yet, but FWIW: it's the other way around  At least when I call Questrade, I tell them how much of Face Value I want to buy - and the cost is FV * Price / 100.

So in your example, you buy 10K of that bond for $7,465.09. And you'll get 10K in October, 2022 

Yes, the interest rate is compounded, and the formula is rather complicated, so I just trust their calculations :biggrin:

Oh and dunno about CIBC, but at Questrade there're no fees and they just show the Face Value in Quantity (I.e. total amount in dollars, not how many shares) Makes it easier in a way 

So for my husband's 4 year Fairfax strip it shows:

Qty (Face Valee): 7,000
Position Cost (what he paid for it): 6,120.87
Market Value (cheaper because of the spread): 6,079.40


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

The highest yield I found for less than 5 years is HR Maturity: Mar 02, 2020 , yield 2.86%


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Questrade doesn't have that one, but there're some others (click on the CORP STRIPS tab): http://campaigns.questrade.com/Libraries/bonds/Questrade_Bonds_List_Excel.sflb.ashx

But I gather there was mayhem on the bond markets last week. I've been watching those same bonds for months with not many changes - and pooof! Most got sold in two days! Since Questrade updates the bulletin in the mornings, when I called them again on Friday afternoon to check on three more bonds - two were gone and the price for the third was higher/yield lower than quoted. So I'll wait till Tuesday to try again...

Are CIBC quotes updated in real time? If not, don't get attached to those bonds as they might be gone before you try to buy them... sigh


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Not sure... shoul;d check during business hours...


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

Ok, looks like end of last week was a temporary glitch at Questrade (they accidentally published the internal list or something), this week everything's back to normal - and I bought another Fairfax strip bond for my husband's TFSA (once he realized that 3.7% yield actually means +25% in 6 years, he didn't put up a fight lol):


*CUSIP**FACE VALUE**ISSUER**MATURITY**PRICE**YIELD**COST* 30390ZCK15,000FAIRFAX FIN CPN STRIP2021-05-2580.403.7%4,019.80

Now will need to buy one more strip (hopefully maturing in 2020) for myself later this year - and we'll have a 4-7 years half-ladder, to which we can add more "stairs" every year


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: 2015-05-21, 05:28 PM #22*



Moneytoo said:


> At this point I prefer riskier bonds with shorter durations/higher yields (oil collapse? housing bubble? Quebec separation? Pick your pony! ):
> 
> 
> *CUSIP**FACE VALUE**ISSUER**MATURITY**PRICE**YIELD*89348ZBY1576,000TRANSALTA CORP PRIN STRP2019-11-1885.813.45
> ...


Glad I didn't buy this one last year - it's yielding 7%+ now, was a Top Pick on BNN's Market Call last night:



> *TransAlta 6.40% November 18, 2019 at $96.00 7.63%*
> 
> This credit was recently downgraded by Moody’s to below-investment grade status but both DBRS and S&P maintain an investment grade rating.At over 600 basis points higher in yield than Government of Canada bonds, these bonds offer attractive relative value. The company recently reduced its dividend to conserve cash.
> 
> The company is forecasting EBITDA in the $ 1 billion area for the next two years and this should ensure continuing good interest coverage.


Checked Questrade pricing this morning (both strip & regular bond):


*CUSIP**FACE VALUE**ISSUER**MATURITY**PRICE**YIELD*89348ZBY1250,000TRANSALTA CORP PRIN STRP2019-11-1876.067.3689347ZAK3169,000TRANSALTA CORP2019-11-18987.01

Tempting...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

GoldStone said:


> Bonds are free to buy at most (all?) brokers. The "free" part is an illusion. You are buying bonds from the broker's inventory, not on the open market. The broker acts as a counterparty. Broker's commission is buried in the price you pay. Retail bond market is notorious for bad pricing and lack of transparency.


Yeah the pricing is very tricky. This is where it's a huge advantage to have more than one brokerage. Especially corporate bonds are notoriously illiquid, poor quotes.

I've come to prefer iTrade for my bond purchases. They seem to actually give market quotes and separate the fees. When I compare to TDDI, the pricing at iTrade is nearly always better. Or equivalent -- but I like how fees are obvious in iTrade, even if total purchase cost is same as TDDI.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Beware that the corporate bond market is becoming particularly illiquid, in the last few months. Spreads are getting wider and quotes can be bogus.

Especially in energy bonds and any lower grade bonds. Liquidity is very poor and getting worse. Be very careful with your buy and sell orders!


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## Moneytoo (Mar 26, 2014)

james4beach said:


> I've come to prefer iTrade for my bond purchases. They seem to actually give market quotes and separate the fees. When I compare to TDDI, the pricing at iTrade is nearly always better. Or equivalent -- but I like how fees are obvious in iTrade, even if total purchase cost is same as TDDI.


And they also have GICs from other issuers, right? I was planning to open a spousal RRSP this year (well, for my husband to open one for me I mean - to even out our RRSPs a bit) and was thinking to start a GIC ladder in it. I was debating between People's Trust (where we have HISA) and Questrade (where we have RRSPs and TFSAs), but since neither of us is particularly hot on GICs - maybe it will make sense to open an iTrade account, at least for the second opinion on bonds prices... 



james4beach said:


> Beware that the corporate bond market is becoming particularly illiquid, in the last few months. Spreads are getting wider and quotes can be bogus.
> 
> Especially in energy bonds and any lower grade bonds. Liquidity is very poor and getting worse. Be very careful with your buy and sell orders!


I'm only buying for now, and plan to hold till maturity (except for the 20 year BAM strip lol) I liked what *AltaRed* said in the other thread:



AltaRed said:


> If one is looking at starting a 5 year ladder, you can't get there without buying 5 year GICs. No second guessing interest rates. You have to start sometime so bite the bullet and get it started. Next year buy another 5 year GIC and the year after that, another 5 year GIC and so on.
> 
> I have operated a 5 year Fixed Income ladder for perhaps 20 years now. I say fixed income rather than GIC because I have a sprinkling of corporate bonds/non-convertible debentures instead of GICs in some instances. The best 5 year fixed income ladder has 10 or 15 entries maturing at 6 month (or 4 month) intervals rather than 5 entries at one year intervals. That way, one smooths out interest rate changes by something maturing every 6 or 4 (or if one is impulusive 3) month intervals.


But man, it's so hard to actually *start*... Maybe if I do 50/50 bonds/GICs - it'll be easier


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