# Exempt Market Products



## ace_geekster (Apr 3, 2011)

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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

me i invest in stodgy old exchange-traded vehicles but i'm quite happy with the results so far ...


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

It's Sunday evening, let's play Word Association game.

What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the word _'exempt'_ ?


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I will go first.

Bernie Madoff.


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## richard (Jun 20, 2013)

Companies to avoid: the majority.

That said I do own one exempt offering. On paper it looks good. In a couple of years I will see if it's possible to get money out. It does show a lot of good signs so I'm comfortable with that as a very small piece of my portfolio.


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## ace_geekster (Apr 3, 2011)

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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

ace_geekster said:


> So far I have been using Raintree Financial and they seem to be doing a good job.


let me guess: you're a raintree associate?

here's a little pdf disclaimer setting forth risks associated with raintree as an exempt dealer:

http://www.mcguirefinancial.ca/Raintree_Disclaimers.pdf


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> let me guess: you're a raintree associate?


If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is ... a raintree associate.


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## ace_geekster (Apr 3, 2011)

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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

GoldStone said:


> If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is ... a raintree associate.


OP posts from a Government IP address, so I don't think he/she is a Raintree Associate.

Exempt market products are not only high risk, this is an area of the market that is rife with outright scams and if an investor wants to get into it at all, it should make up no more than a tiny fraction of your portfolio.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> OP posts from a Government IP address, so I don't think he/she is a Raintree Associate.
> 
> Exempt market products are not only high risk, this is an area of the market that is rife with outright scams and if an investor wants to get into it at all, it should make up no more than a tiny fraction of your portfolio.



CC the party could easily be free-lancing on the side; outfits like these often recruit through multi level marketing schemes so amateurs sign on.

one has to go by what & how the party writes. If he were a genuine arm's length investor, he'd commence by talking about the extreme risk associated with these non-regulated products.

he'd deal with why he is personally in a position to load extra risk.

he'd discuss the specific products he has purchased, how they have out-performed standard index products in order to compensate for extra risk & iinconvenience, why he's pleased with them.

also he'd cover how he will deal with the difficulties most exempt product investors are up against if & when they attempt to cash out any of their $$.

but the OP doesn't post anything like this. What he posts are vagaries to stir up interest in general in the topic. Now he's pulled Raintree in particular out of the hat like a magician showing the bunny. This is what makes it look like a magic trick each:


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

It's a shame that the accredited investor laws are structured the way they are. It means that unsophisticated investors who get talked into investing end up investing a lot--potentially their whole life savings--to meet the $150k minimum.


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## ace_geekster (Apr 3, 2011)

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## ace_geekster (Apr 3, 2011)

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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> CC the party could easily be free-lancing on the side; outfits like these often recruit through multi level marketing schemes so amateurs sign on.
> 
> but the OP doesn't post anything like this. What he posts are vagaries to stir up interest in general in the topic. Now he's pulled Raintree in particular out of the hat like a magician showing the bunny. This is what makes it look like a magic trick each:





GoldStone said:


> If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is ... a raintree associate.


Turns out you guys were right. OP now requests the whole thread be deleted. What do you guys think?


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i votes we should leave it. The truth always outs in the end :biggrin:

btw he has a minimum of $10,000 in each of 8 risky exempt products. Given that wise gurus usually suggest 5-10% of a portfolio in golds, riskies & other frivolous stuff, that implies a portfolio of roughly $1 million. Quite a lot of $$ for a young civil servant investing out of his government office.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

on further reflection i *definitely* think we should keep the thread as an important teaching resource.

it doesn't pay in finance to be naiive, cmf forummers have to stay on their toes.

i suppose the raintree principals are unhappy with what the gummint employee is saying in their name?


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

I guess OP can delete his/her posts if that's what they want.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

ace_geekster said:


> As for the specific products that I'm invested in, here they are: Centurion REIT, Capstone Real Estate Trust, Solar Income Fund, Auctus RET, Petro Capita, Ag Capita, Redstone Investment Corp & Alta Pacific MIC.
> 
> ...
> 
> And finally not requested but I'll talk about anyways. *My motivation was to find investments that aren't subject to the whims of the market and also to invest in alternative or non-correlated assets.*


There is no such thing as "investments that aren't subject to the whims of the market".

The investments you bought are illiquid, yes. They are not marked to market on a daily basis, yes. You can't get a quote whenever you want, yes. But, your investments are subject to the market forces all the same. It's rather naive to think otherwise.

It's like toddlers playing hide and seek. Stand in the middle of room and cover your eyes. You can't see anyone, therefore no one can see you. Right? Same idea.

The second part of your statement: non-correlated assets. How you know they are non-correlated? Do you have historical data series to test correlations? I don't think so. In other words, it's another empty claim.




ace_geekster said:


> Oh and to andrewf, not sure where you live, but in Manitobe here for some reason the mininum is only $10,000.00. Wow! If it was $150,000 here that would have been way to much single investment exposure risk like you mentioned.


$10,000 minimum is terrible. It's an open invitation to abuse know-nothing retail investors.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

Forgot to mention... I vote to keep this thread.


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## axelis (Jan 13, 2015)

Could you guys please provide some more info / feedback on your experiences with exempt market products? This seems to be the only thread referencing these investments, and the overall feel is rather negative. I would like to better understand why the comments are so negative (or maybe I should say raise caution), beyond the fact that these are "high risk" and "illiquid" investments...

Also what's specifically wrong with raintree? Just trying to gather info, TIA


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

persistent, aren't they each:


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## axelis (Jan 13, 2015)

If you would prefer to share your opinions directly with me, please message me. The aim of this message is to try to learn something out of it. I did some research on my own on exempt market products (and dealers) and of course all info you find on EMD websites are written, well... by EMDs so of course it shows their side of the story. I initially went to Canadian Capitalist website but there was nothing whatsoever on exempt market, but I found this post which was apparently kept for education purposes (my goal). Hence me hoping to see the other side of the story, i.e. individuals who may have had (good and bad) experiences in these types of investments, and what was the good and more importantly the bad.

I don't want to make any assumptions but it seems you think I am an EMD rep?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm not sure what you need beyond "high risk" and "illiquid" to scare you off. That would do it for me.


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## axelis (Jan 13, 2015)

so basically it's a case of "at first sight it looks too risky so let's not dig deeper?"...I don't necessarely agree. First time I was explained about options, it seems risky and scary and complex (and still kinda is to me) but I still tried to better understand the mechanics behind it. Now I'm doing the same with EM products, so i'm really looking for someone who can relate with a negative experience, i.e. "I invested money into product XYZ and here is what happened (i.e. returns were not as promised, or I was not able to get my principal back, or other bad things). I did talk to an EMD and of course their story is attractive, now I want the other side of the coin, the investors' point of view... anyone ?


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

Here's one:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...league-of-their-own/article16583968/?page=all

Here's another:
http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=105756


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## axelis (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks for sharing. Read the G&M article about League, I had not heard about it, good insight. I need some time to read the post from the other forum but looking at the first page it looks like Walton ("Invest in the land").

If anyone else is looking for info on the same topic, I'll add the only article I managed to find before on EM (same idea):
http://business.financialpost.com/2...g-goes-investments-but-play-at-your-own-risk/

Keep them coming please !


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## axelis (Jan 13, 2015)

Wow I'm only at page 2 of the post you shared and it's a horror story... but on the other hand the guy who invested $80k in something he does not understand at all, not the smartest move ever. I wonder how the story ends 

How about info on RainTree, someone seemed to have (bad) experience with them as well ?


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## axelis (Jan 13, 2015)

Ok so now that I did read (most) of the second post, it is a sad story, and the "kombat" guy lost quite a bit in it but hey "if it looks like a duck..." - that one was pretty obvious right from the beginning. Not sure if it really applies to my question about Exempt Market products though, as this one does not seem to be exempt (the first one - League - probably was). Hoping to get more names and stories from other members...


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