# What should I replace my garage with?



## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

I have a garage problem and I was hoping to get some feedback from the bright minds in the forum. The rest of you are welcome to chip in as well. 

I live in an older downtownish Toronto house which has a laneway in the back. There is a garage off the laneway which is a complete POS (piece of sh**). We park on the street (which is our preference) and just use the garage for storage.

Ideally I would like to just keep patching it up, however our insurance company has other ideas. Our last insurance company dropped us because of the garage. Bottom line is that the garage must come down. 

The question is what to replace it with.

From a resale point of view, it would be nice to put in a proper garage, but that would be quite expensive and we will just use it as a storage shed. We have no plans to move any time in the near (or far) future. One thing about resale value is that a lot of people just want a place to park (which they would have) - a garage would be a bonus.

I'm thinking we might investigate putting in a bare-bones modern version of our old garage which would cost some $$, but hopefully not too bad. In other words, a wood structure with a proper roof/windows/door etc that will continue to be used as a storage shed, but a new owner could convert easily to a car garage.

Another alternative is to look into getting a shed or two. I don't know anything about them.

Another consideration is that there is a big tree between our garage and our neighbour's garage. I love the limited shade it gives, but I'm thinking it might be better to come down. 

I don't have a specific question about this issue, but if anyone has any info/advice about garages/sheds etc, I'd love to hear it.

Actually - one specific question is how much it would cost to have it taken down and disposed of - the dimensions are 11 feet wide and 24 feet long. We would leave the concrete floor as is. Most the structure is wood, but the bottom 2? feet are cinderblocks.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Not sure on the size of the house, or the tree beside the garage. But to throw out an idea. You could rebuild the garage with a small loft above. Then you could offer a perspective buyer parking and storage.

Assuming you are leaving the cement pad, it really shouldn't cost that much to rebuild.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Cal said:


> Not sure on the size of the house, or the tree beside the garage. But to throw out an idea. You could rebuild the garage with a small loft above. Then you could offer a perspective buyer parking and storage.
> 
> Assuming you are leaving the cement pad, it really shouldn't cost that much to rebuild.


Garage with a loft is a pretty good idea. I'm not sure about the cost however - garages are not cheap, especially if they are built to code. I'm thinking that a nice garage is probably $30k, $40k which is not what I want to spend. 

I should mention that the concrete pad is not in good shape at all. If we are going to do the "nice" garage approach, that would involve removing the existing pad.

The other thing is that there is a very good chance we will live here for a long time, so paying a lot of money for a garage because of resale value might not make a lot of sense.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Single or Double car garage?


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Single ( 11 feet wide ).


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

One thing you should check is if you remove the garage can the next owner rebuild it. My friend had a clause on her house which was very old in Toronto that if garage was removed they could not rebuild it.They had to rebuild from inside out ,could not even take it down then rebuild it.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

marina628 said:


> One thing you should check is if you remove the garage can the next owner rebuild it. My friend had a clause on her house which was very old in Toronto that if garage was removed they could not rebuild it.They had to rebuild from inside out ,could not even take it down then rebuild it.


That's actually a bit of an urban myth. I've heard that from plenty of people and it just isn't true. 

Perhaps if you want to rebuild your garage without a permit, then doing it one wall at a time is one way to do it, but if you want to tear it completely down and rebuild - that is allowed.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

What about taking it down and creating a "parking" space with hardscaping.Would cost 1/2 of what a new garage would cost and it would upgrade your back-yard.Maybe frame the parking pad with old rustic railwood ties/granite rock or cement it with coloured concrete/stamped concrete and you could pave a path way to your back door....You could always build a carport-done right it could enhance(cedar ect)....Basically take down the garage and focus on custom hardscaping/landscaping(renovate the backyard as a total package),you could spend 20k and it will look like you spent thifty-five-and it would be a nice space for entertaining if you hangout in your backyard with friend a lot.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Half the price of a new garage and throw a shed in the backyard for storage.As far as removing disposing the old garage,all you need is a group of friend,sweet equity,beer,steaks and a or whatever(easy to take down-need 1 guy that might need to have alittle skill with a skill saw or recip saw,cro bars.Rent a bfi bin for the day for drop off(300 hun to 400 hun)and hire a landscaper for the rest.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

donald said:


> What about taking it down and creating a "parking" space with hardscaping.Would cost 1/2 of what a new garage would cost and it would upgrade your back-yard.Maybe frame the parking pad with old rustic railwood ties/granite rock or cement it with coloured concrete/stamped concrete and you could pave a path way to your back door....You could always build a carport-done right it could enhance(cedar ect)....Basically take down the garage and focus on custom hardscaping/landscaping(renovate the backyard as a total package),you could spend 20k and it will look like you spent thifty-five-and it would be a nice space for entertaining if you hangout in your backyard with friend a lot.


That sounds like the nicest parking space in T.O.! 

The problem is that we don't use that space for parking and we aren't selling. 

However if we do ever sell - I think that is a fantastic, cost efficient idea.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

One thing you need to check is the new building codes. The "urban myth" probably stems from that. In the past you could build pretty much anywhere, today they have all sorts of rules like distance from the lane. I once had a place where, if I replaced the garage, i'd would need to move it back into my yard another 20 feet. You can sometimes get around that by "repairing" each wall/roof individually. Where I was, as long as one original wall still stood, you could tear down the remainder and it was still considered original, after that was done, you could repair the original wall...but that was in a different place...


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## hystat (Jun 18, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> I'm thinking that a nice garage is probably $30k, $40k which is not what I want to spend.


I had a 480 sq. ft double car garage built in 2008 on a concrete slab. It is basic, but it is built to code, wood frame and siding, 2 insulated garage doors, 1 mandoor, 1 window. 
cost was around $12K including the slab


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My husband built one last year for about $10,000.We had the footings dug down and the concrete done by local landscaping company .I think your price is probably a bit on the high side for a 11x24. We built 16x24 with 10 ft garage door for that price , my husband paid his nephew $20 an hour cash to help him and together they built it in 3-4 days.Even if you double our cost for paying contractor you should get a decent job done for under $20,000.He insulated the building and it was dry walled inside as he stores his sports car in there .Floor is painted with some special paint so it is dust free,I believe the floor paint was nearly $300 !


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

We had a very similar issue, and we put in a shed (we also park on the street). I understand that providing car parking would increase the resale value, but I costed it out at a minimum of $20K and probably more like $40K. My shed cost about $6000 and someone else built it on the foundation we created. I will see if I can remember the shed company - we were VERY happy with them.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> We had a very similar issue, and we put in a shed (we also park on the street). I understand that providing car parking would increase the resale value, but I costed it out at a minimum of $20K and probably more like $40K. My shed cost about $6000 and someone else built it on the foundation we created. I will see if I can remember the shed company - we were VERY happy with them.



$6k for a shed? What are the dimensions?


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Some of the prices thrown around seem out of whack. My father-in-law had a single car garage built for 15k 2 years ago, new cement pad, removal of the old one and everything. I can't see more than 20k for a brand new garage.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Just a quick Q about your current use. Do you currently use it for storage _because_ it is a POS? If it were a better space, would you get any other benefits out of it? Hobbies? Rainy day outside space? 

I recently saw a garage rebuild that added a covered porch in the backyard that looked as if it added a ton of utility to the outside space.

If it is truly just a storage space then the biggest difference between the sheds and a simple garage or carport is the pad and removal. What about electricity? I'd lean towards a new garage, however simple or elaborate. Think also about future landscaping and access to the backyard. Either getting in and doing it now or providing access for the future.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

What about a man cave? :encouragement:

Sorry, I got nothing...


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## mind_business (Sep 24, 2011)

How do you guys use your backyard currently? Are you gardeners? Do you entertain in the backyard? Do you currently have a deck?

If it was me (we like gardening and entertaining), I would put some type of gardening structure, perhaps with a pond. Keep it inexpensive so you don't waste too much money when you eventually have to put in a garage before you sell the house. I would imagine a garage in TO is a huge selling point.


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## Mall Guy (Sep 14, 2011)

Four Pillars said:


> Garage with a loft is a pretty good idea. I'm not sure about the cost however - garages are not cheap, especially if they are built to code. I'm thinking that a nice garage is probably $30k, $40k which is not what I want to spend.
> 
> The other thing is that there is a very good chance we will live here for a long time, so paying a lot of money for a garage because of resale value might not make a lot of sense.


RE: the loft. I know where I live, I could turn the 2nd flr/loft part into a rental unit, but that's $30 to $40K for sure, but nice return at $750 per month. You might be giving up some backyard privacy however. 

Here's another idea (although U.S.) for the shed, and re-purposed shipping containers.

http://tinyhouseblog.com/pre-fab/shed-boy-mini-home/
http://www.shed-boy.com/
http://designcrave.com/2009-06-22/10-brilliant-boxy-and-sustainable-shipping-container-homes/


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all your comments. Now that I'm back from my afternoon coffee with MG, I can respond to some of them. 



Maybe Later said:


> Just a quick Q about your current use. Do you currently use it for storage _because_ it is a POS? If it were a better space, would you get any other benefits out of it? Hobbies? Rainy day outside space?
> 
> I recently saw a garage rebuild that added a covered porch in the backyard that looked as if it added a ton of utility to the outside space.
> 
> If it is truly just a storage space then the biggest difference between the sheds and a simple garage or carport is the pad and removal. What about electricity? I'd lean towards a new garage, however simple or elaborate. Think also about future landscaping and access to the backyard. Either getting in and doing it now or providing access for the future.


Good question. I'm not that interested in parking the car in the garage because the street parking is pretty good. That said, having a nice garage I can park in might be good too. But it's definitely not something I need.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

financialnoob said:


> What about a man cave? :encouragement:
> 
> Sorry, I got nothing...


Best idea yet!!!


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

mind_business said:


> How do you guys use your backyard currently? Are you gardeners? Do you entertain in the backyard? Do you currently have a deck?
> 
> If it was me (we like gardening and entertaining), I would put some type of gardening structure, perhaps with a pond. Keep it inexpensive so you don't waste too much money when you eventually have to put in a garage before you sell the house. I would imagine a garage in TO is a huge selling point.


We have a garden and a deck and like to entertain. We need storage more than anything else. 

I think a parking space is a big selling point. If it has a garage too, that is a bonus. I wouldn't build a garage if I was selling the house.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Mall Guy said:


> RE: the loft. I know where I live, I could turn the 2nd flr/loft part into a rental unit, but that's $30 to $40K for sure, but nice return at $750 per month. You might be giving up some backyard privacy however.
> 
> Here's another idea (although U.S.) for the shed, and re-purposed shipping containers.
> 
> ...


Interesting ideas, but I don't think I'll be doing either.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

I've been thinking about this for a few days... you should replace your garage with... a spaceship. 

1 - You can send your kids out to play in the spaceship when you are trying to watch sports/blog or just watch TV
2 - If your wife gets irritable you can always claim the spaceship needs repair
3 - Unlike a garage a spaceship flies
4 - Lets say you have some people over for a barbeque and your propane is empty. Luckily you salvaged some charcoal from the old garage. You can get them perfectly ready to cook your delicious meal by placing them under your handy dandy charcoal starter/spaceship and blasting off. This saves you from pouring gas on the charcoal and blowing up the barbeque and singing your eyebrows. 
5 - Driving is just so passe
6 - You need to have someplace to store your cash reserves. 
7 - What if one day you need a second bathroom? 
8 - To boldly go where no man has gone before

Ok I'm done... oops no I'm not.

9 - To give Rachelle a ride around the universe. 
10 - Any idiot can go out an buy a Ferrari. but no one has a spaceship in their back yard.

Live long & prosper


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

Berubeland said:


> I've been thinking about this for a few days... you should replace your garage with... a spaceship.


Tempting - but I like the man cave idea a bit better.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> One thing you need to check is the new building codes. The "urban myth" probably stems from that. In the past you could build pretty much anywhere, today they have all sorts of rules like distance from the lane. I once had a place where, if I replaced the garage, i'd would need to move it back into my yard another 20 feet. You can sometimes get around that by "repairing" each wall/roof individually. Where I was, as long as one original wall still stood, you could tear down the remainder and it was still considered original, after that was done, you could repair the original wall...but that was in a different place...


It could be building code, or zoning. Older structures rarely meet todays code requirements.


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## callyhan (Dec 7, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> That's actually a bit of an urban myth. I've heard that from plenty of people and it just isn't true.
> 
> Perhaps if you want to rebuild your garage without a permit, then doing it one wall at a time is one way to do it, but if you want to tear it completely down and rebuild - that is allowed.


Actually not an urban myth. In my former life as a municipal building official I dealt with this issue all the time. The locations of very old accessory buildings (sheds, garages, etc.) often do not comply with newer Zoning and Ontario Building Code required setbacks, and sometimes have no record of even existing. Most times the Planning Departments will allow you to remove an existing delapidated building and rebuild to match in the existing footprint. They usually will not allow you to go bigger or multi-storey. Best thing to do is email the Planning/Building Dept. and get an answer in writing as to what you are allowed to do. Depending on how close the garage is to neighbouring property lines and adjacent buildings you may be required by OBC to construct walls with a fire rating (usually just fire-rated drywall). If you are not looking to drywall the interior though that can add cost.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Lots of ideas Mike! Although if you started a thread 'Who wants to help me rebuild my garage' it would have received considerably less replies.

:biggrin:


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## jamesbe (May 8, 2010)

You can buy a full 12x24' garage kit which includes everything you need to build the garage for $4500 at home hardware. $20-30k is way out of wack


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## Andrej (Feb 25, 2010)

jamesbe said:


> You can buy a full 12x24' garage kit which includes everything you need to build the garage for $4500 at home hardware. $20-30k is way out of wack


You are forgetting that most contractors in Toronto are theives... wealthy theives.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

_"We park on the street (which is our preference) and just use the garage for storage."_

_"I'm not that interested in parking the car in the garage because the street parking is pretty good. That said, having a nice garage I can park in might be good too. But it's definitely not something I need."_ 
I guess it doesn't snow in downtown TO any more.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

If the garage is in such bad shape you can't insure it, it needs to be removed. So that's an unavoidable cost.
if you can rent a bin and have a bunch of firends who know one ned of a hammer from another you can demolish it cheaply. Otherwise a contractor.

If the foundation and floor are in such bad shape it canot be reused to build on, I would be inclined oto have it removed. It isn't going to improve with age, adn isn't going to get cheaper to remove later.

It may be hard to justify spending money on a new parking surface you aren't going to use. But I would be inclined to install a parking surface of something like Turfstone http://www.westerninterlock.com/products/paving-stones/turf-stone that allows water penetration and can be planted with grass. Then plant your pre-fabricated shed on it. When it comes time to sell, if a buyer wants the parking spot they can just move the shed.


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## mrcheap (Apr 4, 2009)

Personally I'd go with the living structure you rent out suggested by Mall Guy, but if you refuse to do that what about getting some friends (I'm busy that day, sorry ;-P) to help you tear down as suggested then getting a pre-built shed (example prices: http://www.alansfactoryoutlet.com/wood-storage-shed-prices/ you'd probably want to buy from someone closer to Toronto). For building their sheds "It takes approximately 3 people, 3-5 hours to complete."

You get storage (that won't bug your insurance company) for the price of a bfi bin (a few hundred according to Donald) and the shed (around $6k as suggested by MoneyGal).

I still think you should build a cottage for renting out...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Here's the company we used: http://www.duroshed.ca/index.htm (finally got my husband to dig up the company name)


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> If the garage is in such bad shape you can't insure it, it needs to be removed. So that's an unavoidable cost.


Unfortunately, you are 100% correct. Garage must go.




OhGreatGuru said:


> if you can rent a bin and have a bunch of firends who know one ned of a hammer from another you can demolish it cheaply.


I'd like to announce the very first official CMF get-together at my place. Bring your work boots.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

mrcheap said:


> I still think you should build a cottage for renting out...


We're afraid that you'll move in.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> Here's the company we used: http://www.duroshed.ca/index.htm (finally got my husband to dig up the company name)


Thanks - I got his email this morning. My wife will be calling them today.


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## mrcheap (Apr 4, 2009)

Four Pillars said:


> We're afraid that you'll move in.


That's exactly why I want you to build it!!! You're always 2 steps ahead...


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## Barwelle (Feb 23, 2011)

Four Pillars said:


> I'd like to announce the very first official CMF get-together at my place. Bring your work boots.


Hmm... in that case... 



mrcheap said:


> You get storage (that won't bug your insurance company) for the price of a bfi bin (a few hundred according to Donald) and the shed (around $6k as suggested by MoneyGal).


 Plus round trip flights for one person from Alberta to T-dot.


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## realist (Apr 8, 2011)

My first choice if it was me would be to rebuild it with a loft/apt above it. Check the zoning and such to see if that's possible. Even just as an unfinished space it could be used for storage in the short term, ande ventually become an apt, an office, man cave etc. Second choice would be some kind of "grassable" parking surface.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

It might make sense financially, but you are into a whole different level of capital outlay. (Water, sewer, power, heat, building has to meet residential standards of construction)


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