# TD Waterhouse Charges For Paper Copies



## bariutt (Feb 2, 2013)

I recently received notice from TD Waterhouse that they will now charge me a fee of about $2 for each item that they mail out to me. This includes monthly statements, confirmation slips, tax slips etc.

I have a total of 7 accounts at TD Waterhouse so I estimate that this new policy will cost me an additional few hundred dollars annually.

They are pushing for you to sign up for their paperless system. I have always liked to keep paper copies for my records.

I am thinking of changing to another discount brokerage firm but fear that others will be the same. What is your experience with other companies??????


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## eulogy (Oct 29, 2011)

I know everyone has their personal preference, but is it really that inconvenient to get instant PDF access to your statements (that you're free to print off), that you'd move 7 accounts to some other place?


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## stardancer (Apr 26, 2009)

I think most places are going paperless now. I have been as paperless as possible for a few years now, and love it. I have boxes of old paper statements that I have to shred a little bit at a time. I am starting to keep digital copies on flash drives which take up very little storage space.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bariutt said:


> ... estimate that this new [paperless or charge] policy will cost me an additional few hundred dollars annually.



it's not quite so bad. The $2 per month paper charge covers all accounts that get mailed in one envelope - should be your entire root account number - plus any & all paper confirmations that they mail out that month, for that account.

probably impossible to escape, all brokers are moving to this system. High time, too, one might add. The cost & waste are beyond astronomical. When i look at those beautiful - & expensive - pale green trade confirmation papers, plus the envelope they're mailed in, plus the cost of postage, i'm shocked to think of the costs to the brokerage, all for something i don't even need. Plus i receive these things, sometimes several of these things, every single day. 

ok moving on. I think clients should accept e-statements & e-confirms but get ready bucket lists of improvements they want to see at the brokers with all the money that they, the brokers, are going to save. Me i'm already at em about eliminating/reducing FX fees on USD dividends. I'm relentless about it each:


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

bariutt said:


> I recently received notice from TD Waterhouse that they will now charge me a fee of about $2 for each item that they mail out to me. This includes monthly statements, confirmation slips, tax slips etc.


The notice I received didn't include tax slips - I think those will still come without charge.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I am all electronic. I don't print most statements. Why should I pay for your costs of printing, stuffing and posting?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Eventually the electronic copies will be charged since they do take up digital space and the banks will have to buy bigger servers. Any way to squeeze a few more dollars from ya. :tan:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

kcowan said:


> Why should I pay for your costs of printing, stuffing and posting?


the thing is, you have been. Paying, i mean.

i think investors should go with e-statements joyfully & seize the day to ask for price concessions that are truly meaningful.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Just another example of the average person being nickled and dimed to death while the banks party at all hours.

TD Bank profit jumps 21 per cent:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/05/24/td-bank-earnings.html


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## NorthKC (Apr 1, 2013)

Link is broken.


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## kaleb0 (Apr 26, 2011)

We don't receive a single bill by paper in my house, everything is paperless. I download PDFs of it all and back them up in multiple places. I fail to see how the paper statements are any more convenient than going paperless, not to mention it's nice not having to sort and store or discard hundreds of envelopes over the course of the year, and there's also the environmental benefits of not lopping down more trees / pouring more paper bleaching and treatment chemicals into lakes and rivers, etc.


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## pwm (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't get paper documents from any source if I can avoid it. I can't understand why anyone would *not* want a digital file in place of a paper statement.

Files can be copied, backed up forever, take up no office space, can be sent as email attachments etc. The list of reasons why digital beats paper is a long one. I think you will have to adjust to the 21'st century as all the financial institutions already are, or soon will be, charging for mailing out paper docs.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

great, everybody in agreement each:

next item: what cost benefits are we going to ask for in return. May i place a motion on the floor that the logical reduction should be lowered or abolished FX fees on all USD dividends.

ps re paperless statements, i believe that if one goes all helpless & crippled on em, ie blind, in wheelchair, multi-decorated veteran of World War I, etc, they might relent.

no make that partially blind, otherwise printed statements would be useless ...


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

before electronic statements I used to scan everything and shred it... why would anyone want to deal with paper statements


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

blin10 said:


> before electronic statements I used to scan everything and shred it... why would anyone want to deal with paper statements


I can think of one clear example. When my Father in Law died, how would I get a statement of his account (every month) if they didn't send statements in the mail? Once you notify TDWH of the account holder dieing, the online access is immediately cut off (even if had of shared his password with us). And it take MONTHS to go through the estate dept to get the funds / stocks transferred.

And there they hit you too, a new fee for doing transfers for 3rd parties (IE FIL to my wife). 

Nickle and diming the customers is no way to make them happy. And I'm not picking on TDWH only here, they are all pulling this crap.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> next item: what cost benefits are we going to ask for in return. May i place a motion on the floor that the logical reduction should be lowered or abolished FX fees on all USD dividends.


I personally couldn't care less about paper statements.
I maintain meticulous records of my own in a spreadsheet, recording all trades, distributions, applicable FX rates, and other information relevant for tax purposes.

Paper is a PITA, esp. these days with mailbox identity thieves and outsourced, striking posties delivering to the wrong address half the time.

Anyhow, my vote for cost benefits in lieu will be reduced FX fees and full transparency around applicable rates.
The account activity screen MUST show the FX rate applied for every transaction, regardless of whether the conversion was explicit or implicit.
There could be other benefits too, such as inactivity fees for small accounts, esp. since they will no longer have to mail out a statements for these.
May I also ask for tighter spreads on bonds?

OK, I'll stop now...can't get too greedy...after all it is only $2 we are negotiating for each:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

xoron it's obvious. Do not have ancestors who die.

if your ancestors insist upon dying, make sure they give you all their assets while they're still cogent, so that they can depart this earth penniless as the day they were born.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> I personally couldn't care less about paper statements.
> I maintain meticulous records of my own in a spreadsheet, recording all trades, distributions, applicable FX rates, and other information relevant for tax purposes


sweet hay soos! u are a dream come true for an option trader! please could i hope to hire you? 



> Anyhow, my vote for cost benefits in lieu will be reduced FX fees and full transparency around applicable rates.
> The account activity screen MUST show the FX rate applied for every transaction, regardless of whether the conversion was explicit or implicit.


yay



> May I also ask for tighter spreads on bonds?


i'll support but only for your sake


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## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> if your ancestors insist upon dying, make sure they give you all their assets while they're still cogent, so that they can depart this earth penniless as the day they were born.


HP, I'll send you in next time to deal with the stubborn Eastern European


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

HaroldCrump said:


> I personally couldn't care less about paper statements. ...
> OK, I'll stop now...can't get too greedy...after all it is only $2 we are negotiating for each:


 ... x 12 x millions of accounts = $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$ from accountholders ... no wonder banks are so profitable.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... x 12 x millions of accounts = $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$ from accountholders ... no wonder banks are so profitable.


Maybe ... but then again, from the number here who are already using the online service - it's hard to tell how many are going to pay the fees to get the paper copy.


Cheers


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i don't think the figure to be estimated is the number of accounts that would pay $2 per month for paper statements. Such a fee is probably still below TD's actual costs in preparing & mailing the paper.

i think the insightful figure will be the $$ they will save from all the accounts that will flee paper & go e-statements. These amounts to be saved will generally be greater than $2 per month per account.

i reckon it costs the big green somewhere between $50 & $150 per month to send a paper trail to an active trading account (those are the minimum 50 trades per month jobs.)

if they can save all those costs they'll be in pigs' heaven.

afaik it's impossible to estimate the number of accounts involved, or how much the printing & mailing currently are costing TDDI.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

humble_pie said:


> ... afaik it's impossible to estimate the number of accounts involved, or how much the printing & mailing currently are costing TDDI.


True ... but my main point was that multiplying the numbers by account holders is likely much higher than the number of investors that end up paying the fee.

IMO, that's like the telemarketers who leave a message for me that I could be saving money with a lower interest rate on my CC when I'm typically going years paying off the balance every month & pay 0% most of the time.


It also makes me wonder as my mom had some investments transferred with her advisor over to a new company, where I'm getting a mailed statement in addition to her statement. Somehow in the transfer, something like $1.50 was left behind but I'm getting quarterly statements for years. I have to believe that the statements are costing the company a pretty penny.


Cheers


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> sweet hay soos! u are a dream come true for an option trader! please could i hope to hire you?


Let's make a barter deal, shall we eh.
You be my options advisor, and I be your options record-keeper.
Win-win scenario, as they say in corporate-speak.


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

There are customers that have a TDWH account, but are not online. They use the telephone to make trades. I assume they will not be charged for their paper statements??


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## justinrmc (Oct 19, 2013)

humble_pie said:


> i don't think the figure to be estimated is the number of accounts that would pay $2 per month for paper statements. Such a fee is probably still below TD's actual costs in preparing & mailing the paper.
> 
> i think the insightful figure will be the $$ they will save from all the accounts that will flee paper & go e-statements. These amounts to be saved will generally be greater than $2 per month per account.
> 
> ...



TD is going to make lots of money on people who don't notice they're being charged $2 per statement. It doesn't cost them $2 to mail out statements since they would have a discount rate for bulk mail with Canada Post. It would cost them less than a postage stamp per trade confirmation including the envelope and paper. They easily payed for it before out of their $9.99 & up trade costs. Other brokers aren't doing this, Scotia iTrade is still sending paper statements without charging.


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