# How to make more money? What are my options?



## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

There's two basic parts to reaching financial goals right? Earn more, save more.

I got the save part figured out, that's pretty easy. Just save, spend judiciously.

But how do I increase my revenue? Unfortunately I made the mistake of picking a career (engineering) that ordinarily does not lead to a high income, relatively speaking. 

So what are my legal options to increasing my revenue?


1. Invest in an education and get into a different career field? (i'm nearly six years out of uni, so this might be difficult)
2. Gambling, either on the stock market or in a casino? (risky as hell)
3. Start a business? (but most of those fail, and without a killer idea or business exp. that's extremely likely, right?)
4. Find a part-time job to do on the side?

How do I go about figuring this out? Any advice? Any experiences?

Thanks.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

A lot of engineers I know ended up doing an MBA in order to try to make more money. Not 100% sure how successful they were but they are doing ok.

Going back to school to make more money is a big gamble...

Part-time job - Can you find a part-time job that pays well? Just working at the local grocery store might help your basic finances but it's not going to "make you rich".

Business - If you have a business idea that doesn't require a lot of start up capital then why not take a chance? So what if it fails?


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## dilbert789 (Apr 20, 2010)

I thought about before working at a gas pump in some evenings. Parents friend owns a full service gas bar, not that hard of work and definitely a change from my day job as a software developer. However when I figured out that my like $10 per hour would be taxed at like 45%, so I'd be like I'm working for $5.5 an hour take home. Just remember any extra income will be taxed at your highest rate. However $5 in the bank is still $5 more in the bank.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

You may want to work part time at your own business. 

At least initially the costs of starting and the equipment needed will offset the income tax you pay. 

As a small home based business, you get to claim your housing expenses against your income. A certain percentage of your car, any office supplies, etc. 

The first several years once you claim these expenses which you are currently not allowed to claim`against your purely employment income you will probably declare a fairly substantial business loss. 

The tax savings alone are substantial. 

I'm not sure what kind of engineer you are but small businesses and many other people may need your services. This way you get the advantages of self employment and the security of a job.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

The key is social networking. If you are someone who knows everyone and everyone knows you, then you get a lot of business from them. Learn things that most people can't do themselves, like plumbing, and you'll get a lot of calls. If you don't know nobody, then go where people meet, and make friends. Sign up to various activities, either sports, language learning, etc.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

loggedout said:


> Unfortunately I made the mistake of picking a career (engineering) that ordinarily does not lead to a high income, relatively speaking.


What sort of 'high' income are you looking to attain. 

I know a tonne of 21 year-old engineers in Calgary starting above $70k, and easily $150k by their mid-thirties.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

If you read up on the markets and increase your knowledge in that respect, you wouldn't necessarily be gambling. I mean...unless your intention was to buy a stock and wake up the next morning and be rich...b/c if thats the case buy a lotto max ticket.

I would consider higher education, assuming you like your field...and/or a part time job that doesn't feel like one...like starting a business on the side...or a friend of mine likes hockey...so he referees...or essentially gets paid to skate and exercise.


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## el oro (Jun 16, 2009)

Sampson said:


> What sort of 'high' income are you looking to attain.
> 
> I know a tonne of 21 year-old engineers in Calgary starting above $70k, and easily $150k by their mid-thirties.


What kind of engineers and/or what fields are they in?


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

It's Calgary, there's only one industry in this town. What these people actually do? I'm not an engineer,  couldn't tell you.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Sampson said:


> It's Calgary, there's only one industry in this town. What these people actually do? I'm not an engineer,  couldn't tell you.


OK...


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## sprocket1200 (Aug 21, 2009)

I can't believe 'taxsaver' didn't recommend that you get rid of your T4 income. the taxes are killing you. gross income means little. net income is where it is at...


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your responses.



Sampson said:


> What sort of 'high' income are you looking to attain.
> 
> I know a tonne of 21 year-old engineers in Calgary starting above $70k, and easily $150k by their mid-thirties.


My base is 80k and I am 30 now, living in the GTA. I grossed about ~150k last year (+ off the books per diems) but that was with a crazy amount of OT, site work (time away from home). I can't count that as projects come and go, and especially after I got this dumb idea of transferring to a desk job(!_!_! - but that's another story) that I just started. I was a control systems engineer for automated tooling but now I'm in risk assessment for nuclear safety engineering, where I am just getting my feet wet. It's with a crown corp but may not be for long, lol.

I'd like to be in the consistent 150k range (net) at least by my mid to late thirties but I can't see that happening if I stick to my current path.



Taxsaver said:


> The key is social networking. If you are someone who knows everyone and everyone knows you, then you get a lot of business from them. Learn things that most people can't do themselves, like plumbing, and you'll get a lot of calls. If you don't know nobody, then go where people meet, and make friends. Sign up to various activities, either sports, language learning, etc.


I like this idea, although I'm a terrible social networker but I'm sure I could do it if I put my mind to it. Up until now, I did not have the time nor stability to pursue work like plumbing, garage repair, etc. on the side.....



Cal said:


> If you read up on the markets and increase your knowledge in that respect, you wouldn't necessarily be gambling. I mean...unless your intention was to buy a stock and wake up the next morning and be rich...b/c if thats the case buy a lotto max ticket.
> 
> I would consider higher education, assuming you like your field...and/or a part time job that doesn't feel like one...like starting a business on the side...or a friend of mine likes hockey...so he referees...or essentially gets paid to skate and exercise.


I don't see more education in engineering paying off but I have thought about patent law - but it's such a roll of the dice to quit my job, go back to school, as others have mentioned especially at my age. An MBA doesn't make sense to me because my career has been highly technical up until this point with limited exposure to business areas.



Berubeland said:


> You may want to work part time at your own business.
> 
> At least initially the costs of starting and the equipment needed will offset the income tax you pay.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting idea that I have thought about. The thing I don't like about providing engineering services relating to my primary area of experience (industrial automation) is that there's so much liability involved and it often requires physically being somewhere. Also, I have enough of engineering with my day job that I don't think I could handle even more w/o going crazy. It's also very time consuming.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I suspect your *best* shot at attaining that kind of renumeration is to move higher in your field. In your shoes, I personally would not spend a lot of time opening up a side business. I'd invest in my human capital as much as I could. 

(The reason I am saying this is that the amount of money you say you want to bring in doesn't lend itself well to any kind of self-employment venture given the time you'd have available to do it.)

You could become a patent *agent*, not a patent lawyer (although you are not going to necessarily earn any more as a patent agent than you are already earning). 

Also, I suspect that an MBA may be of value to you precisely because you have had only limited experience with business issues up until now. It will diversify your skill-set. There are lots of part-time ("executive") MBAs available.


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## osc (Oct 17, 2009)

Learn to trade/invest. It's gambling, but you can control the odds.


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## stinsont (May 29, 2009)

Any one ever gave up the 'rat-race' and took the Canadian Securities Course went to full time trader? Interested to know who has done it and the experience...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

If you mean someone who did the CSC and became an investment advisor, me. If you mean someone who did the CSC and became a day-trader, NOT me, and I do not recommend the CSC if you want to pursue this path.


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

MoneyGal said:


> If you mean someone who did the CSC and became an investment advisor, me. If you mean someone who did the CSC and became a day-trader, NOT me, and I do not recommend the CSC if you want to pursue this path.


+1 CSC will not teach you to become a trader. However, doing the CFA course may be in more alignment with what you're looking for.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

sprocket1200 said:


> I can't believe 'taxsaver' didn't recommend that you get rid of your T4 income. the taxes are killing you. gross income means little. net income is where it is at...



Good suggestion. I'm going to have my feet amputed. This way, I will never have cold feet anymore.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

FrugalTrader said:


> ...doing the CFA course may be in more alignment with what you're looking for.


Either that, it will break your brain. Have you ever looked at the pass rates? (Unfortunately, I can't find info that separates out the survivorship. But you can approximate it: using the pass rates for 2008, looks like that for every 100 people that attempt exam 1, a total of 9 people come out the other end having passed all three exams.)


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## stinsont (May 29, 2009)

what does the CFA teach that the CSC deos not? The course description indicates that the CSC is for traders...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Just off the top of my head: 

GAAP. IFRS. Currency arbitrage. Regression and time-series analysis. More than one page on futures, forwards, options and swaps.


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## stinsont (May 29, 2009)

all the good stuff...so the CSC is a good course to learn about mutual funds (of course I am simplifying)?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Nah. The IFIC course is the one you want if you only want to learn about mutual funds. 

But as I've said before, so I shall say again: these are courses designed to get people licensed to sell investment products. They are NOT academic studies of finance or investing. If you want to study finance and you are coming from another academic discipline (and you are working full-time already), try something like this.


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## stinsont (May 29, 2009)

what I would really like to do is get to a comfort level were I can manage all my own investments.

Currently I only manage a portion and have the 'pros' manage the bulk.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

I am a little surprised that you didn't get some backlash after this statement:

'Unfortunately I made the mistake of picking a career (engineering) that ordinarily does not lead to a high income, relatively speaking.'

And then mentioned you made 150K in another entry.

But I see your point. You worked your *** off to make that. And you don't want to have to kill yourself to do that every year.

I would reduce taxes by maxing the RRSP, and learn to invest. Utilize the TFSA to generate tax free returns. Also, as you seem to be concerned with annual cash flow, holding dividend paying stocks in a non registered account may be of interest to you.

I am sure that you read lots to learn engineering. Read lots to learn to invest.


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

Ok let me be blunter here because it appears that what I was trying to skirt around did not compute. 

Start a small part time business selling Avon for all I care. 

You have a government job and you pay about half your damn salary in taxes. 

Let me give you an rough example....

Job Guy

Gross Income = 80,000
Net Income = 40,000

Job guy + part time business guy

Gross Income From Job = 80,000
Gross Income From Business = 20,000
Total Income = 100,000

Less Business expenses 

Home office expenses = % of heating, cooling, internet, rent or mortgage, phone expenses, cell phone expenses, office supplies, business cards, car payments, car insurance.

The first several years you can claim a business loss. 

So after calculating in all your expenses you business loss may total 20,000 and this by claim stuff YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR.

Come tax time your total income after business expenses is $60,000. 

You get $10,000 back that you paid back from the government plus you made an extra 20,000

Cheers


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

...not quite. You can't use business-use-of-home expenses to create a loss, and CRA has recently really clamped down on car expenses (i.e., you really must be using your car for business purposes and keeping a detailed log of each trip). So you really need to have legitimate business expenses (i.e., supplies) to deduct - this is quite different from saying "you can create a loss using things you already pay for."


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## FrugalTrader (Oct 13, 2008)

A little off topic, but say I were to rent the office to my corporation, would that affect the principal residence capital gains exemption when I sell the house down the road?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Nope. But consult your accountant. What causes the principal residence capital gains exemption to be put at risk is when you claim capital cost allowance against the property.


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

Cal said:


> I am a little surprised that you didn't get some backlash after this statement:
> 
> 'Unfortunately I made the mistake of picking a career (engineering) that ordinarily does not lead to a high income, relatively speaking.'
> 
> ...


Allow me to add some backlash. 
The OP mentions a base salary but 150K with tons of extra projects. Well guess what? Another job would be the same thing. 
Your income of 150K puts you in the league of some of my friends who make even more than that and don't seem to have enough cash. 
Might I say to you what I tell them?

You don't have an income problem you have a spending problem. Unless you have several children and a princess wife to support, but if you can't make a go of life on a150K then god have mercy on your soul.


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## Armi (Feb 23, 2010)

bean438 said:


> Allow me to add some backlash.
> The OP mentions a base salary but 150K with tons of extra projects. Well guess what? Another job would be the same thing.
> Your income of 150K puts you in the league of some of my friends who make even more than that and don't seem to have enough cash.
> Might I say to you what I tell them?
> ...


+1.

I got through my childhood with a household income of 48K. I thought life was great


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

Buddy you need to start at basics

mortgage
hydro
heat
phone
land tax
ect.

And learn were your moneys going, then you need to make 30 year old decisions, that goes, this stays ect. then you need to get way smarter with money.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I find these last few posts a little discouraging. 

The OP simply said he wanted to make more money - he said he has the "saving money" part handled. He did characterize his income as "low" - but for all I know, among his peers, his *is* a low income. 

Why would we cheer on another poster who wants to have 1M in net worth by (whatever age), but suggest this guy has a "spending problem," needs to "get smart" with money, or that he should be "happy" with whatever his income is now? 

Making more money (legally, safely, etc.) is his dream. Who are we to suggest that is invalid or misplaced?


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

bean438 said:


> Allow me to add some backlash.
> The OP mentions a base salary but 150K with tons of extra projects. Well guess what? Another job would be the same thing.
> Your income of 150K puts you in the league of some of my friends who make even more than that and don't seem to have enough cash.
> Might I say to you what I tell them?
> ...


No, this doesn't apply to me. I don't have an income nor spending problem - I have zero debt and I already save a great deal of what I earn.

I have an objective (note: not problem) to make more so that I can save more, and get out of the rat race ASAP. The 150k that I made last year was an anomaly based on being on the right project, at the right time, with the right job that required tons and tons of OT which I gratefully took advantage of - the opportunity was complete luck - I can't count on it. So now what? How can I make that much and more consistently so that I can achieve my financial objectives? Sure I can live my life on what I make, I already am just fine, but that's not the question I am asking.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

Oldroe said:


> And learn were your moneys going, then you need to make 30 year old decisions, that goes, this stays ect. then you need to get way smarter with money.


I know where it's going, and I've done the best that I can there. That's not a problem. Nothing's a problem. Just want to increase what's coming in and I'm sure there are many others who want to as well, for whatever reason (does it matter?) --- so posed a question on exactly that.



MoneyGal said:


> I find these last few posts a little discouraging.
> 
> The OP simply said he wanted to make more money - he said he has the "saving money" part handled. He did characterize his income as "low" - but for all I know, among his peers, his *is* a low income.
> 
> ...


Exactly.


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

Moneygal I am not trying to discourage anyone, I just dont see the problem???

80K base salary, made 150K last year. NO debt, and saves a good portion of his income. He wants to get out of the rat race?? Huh?

Sounds like he is doing just fine. I dont care for the "woe is me, poor me" tone.
At least this is how he is coming across.
If he wants to exit the rat race, meaning financial independence it will take some time and effort.
Or you can marry into wealth, or hit the lotto.
A bank heist would work too.

You choose what you want to do in life. It pays x amount of dollars, no more no less.

Your choices are to live within your means, save, and you will eventually become financially independent. This is how most of us "regular" people do it.
You can start a small side business, which may become very large.
You can work a second job. I would suggest something like Costco. They pay very well, with nice benefits.

Now I may be reading too much into this, and it is partly due to the type medium making it difficult to convey what you really mean, and you cant really project attitude.
But What i get from you is you are from the "Millennial" generation. Both of your parents worked, you went to day care, maybe had a nanny..... maid service for sure. You were driven to school, given what you wanted, when you wanted. You and your friends always passed classes, and everyone got a trophy.
Now you are done with the school, and have entered the real world, and you want to go straight from school and be CEO.

This is typical of your generation. You all want to go to heaven but you dont want to die to get there.

Sorry if i am way off base here, but those are the facts. Not making enough money? Then go back to school, and find a higher paying job, or work a second job.


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

loggedout said:


> No, this doesn't apply to me. I don't have an income nor spending problem - I have zero debt and I already save a great deal of what I earn.
> 
> I have an objective (note: not problem) to make more so that I can save more, and get out of the rat race ASAP. The 150k that I made last year was an anomaly based on being on the right project, at the right time, with the right job that required tons and tons of OT which I gratefully took advantage of - the opportunity was complete luck - I can't count on it. So now what? How can I make that much and more consistently so that I can achieve my financial objectives? Sure I can live my life on what I make, I already am just fine, but that's not the question I am asking.


I guess you have to ask yourself, "How much is enough". You are already making about 3 times the salary of the average Canadian, and I would guess that even without working tons of OT, your salary would still be at least double that of the average Canadian. Maybe you should turn the question around and ask yourself if you could be focusing too heavily on the monetary aspects of life and perhaps even consider the possibility of a short sabbatical to reflect on what you really want.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

bean438 said:


> Moneygal I am not trying to discourage anyone, I just dont see the problem???


There is no problem. I've stated that already and there is no woe is me, poor me tone, lol. I know that it is going to take time and effort, but how do I know what to do without finding out what the legal options are, and assessing them in terms of their probability for success and failure, and weighing their pros and cons. That is the purpose of the thread. Saying I unfortunately picked the wrong career is in context with the objective I have now, not in terms of being able to sustain a lifestyle.

And fyi, your characterization is way off base. I'm from a place where most Canadians would consider very close to hell. Don't want to get too far into it, but this goal to make money, it's not just about getting out of the race, that's just the beginning but I can't be 70 years when I ge there...I'll leave it at that.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

loggedout said:


> No, this doesn't apply to me. I don't have an income nor spending problem - I have zero debt and I already save a great deal of what I earn.
> 
> I have an objective (note: not problem) to make more so that I can save more, and get out of the rat race ASAP. The 150k that I made last year was an anomaly based on being on the right project, at the right time, with the right job that required tons and tons of OT which I gratefully took advantage of - the opportunity was complete luck - I can't count on it. So now what? How can I make that much and more consistently so that I can achieve my financial objectives? Sure I can live my life on what I make, I already am just fine, but that's not the question I am asking.


Don't log out on us, Loggedout. Stick with us, and you'll get wonderful pieces of advice to reach your financial goals. By the way, do you own a house? Any mortgage on it?


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## financeguru (Jan 18, 2010)

The only way to be very rich is to work for yourself, i.e. open up a business. If you are not willing to do that then your options start to diminish. 

In some ways i see some similarities between yourself and me albeit i'm 3 years older so maybe my experiences will help you. 
About 4 years ago, i had some moderate debt problems in that i couldn't make ends meet, i was making about $95K (inclusive of bonuses), owned a condo and car however had a lifestyle that can be described as pretty free-wheeling. I wouldn't say i was super careless with my money but i just didn't think twice about eating out, going on vacations etc. I then got into an accident driving without insurance (i know silly me!) which put me about 12K back to get the damn car fixed and pay the penalties...not to mention that my insurance premiums went up like crazy -of course i had to have a relatively high end car that has probably cost me an arm and a leg by now.

Since that point to now i have made the following changes:
1. Get married....as silly as this suggestion sounds, that is one of the major reasons i feel i'm getting ahead. If you get a second income and you can live of one salary you can get ahead very quickly. 
2. I started teaching GMAT. I had some fairly high scores and put them to good use by becoming a teacher with KAPLAN....this was akin to finding a second job. Plus i enjoyed it a lot.
3. Seriously scrutinize your expenses. I have managed to shave off at least a couple of hundred dollars per month by really understanding what i'm paying for. No more extra channels that i never watch. There is a whole section on this forum about frugality which i find to be a bit extreme as i'm not really one to sacrifice my morning coffee to get rich but maybe you can get some ideas from there. However I find what works for me is focusing on the big ticket items i.e. having the the cheapest mortgage, the cheapest car insurance that i can find. In that context, when we bought our new house, we decided to move to the east end of toronto where RE is significantly cheaper than in other areas so that we don't become house poor.
4. I found out the difference b/w good debt and bad debt. At 30 or 33 time is on your side and now i'm using the equity in my condo to create more money. Leverage is one of the major reasons people become rich. In 2009 , i decided to fully plunge into the stock market with mostly my HELOC and probably have added a about $40000 in capital gains within a year and a half (helped no doubt by the stellar returns in the stockmarket over the last 2 years). I think my gains will grow over the years as i put all my extra savings into the market and real estate investments.
5. I decided not to buy the new BMW X6. I paid off my car two years ago and now that its done, i'm probably going to drive my existing car to the ground. What i mean is similar to number 3 understand the difference b/w wants and needs....in the end i will probably buy a nice vehicle in 2, 3 years but will not go broke doing it like i did the last time around.
6. Start tracking your expenses and income and your returns from your investments. This keeps you truly grounded and focused on your goals and helps to prioritize the right things. In our case, we focus on having a good quality of life right now but we also manage to save 3000 dollars per month. Dual income helps out a lot.
7. Focus on your job to figure out how you can get to the next level, another 20-30 K will really help in terms of more disposable income. 

I feel i'm on target of having a million dollar portfolio by age 40. At the same time, i am getting more and more interested in opening up a business from home so i can escape the rat race myself. I'm willing to be patient in this as I haven't come across the right opportunity but I am reading up much more entreprieneurial magazines/ sites etc. so that when that idea does pop in my head i'm ready to take advantage.

On your other comments about being an engineer, making 80 K @ 30 is not bad at all. If you want to work for someone else then the professions that seem to pay a lot are consulting, law and medicine. All require significant time commitment and sacrifice. I was consulting for a while but the endless travel took a toll really quickly and the naive dreams i had of making partner by 35 vanished after that. Before i would come home at thursday or friday, spend saturday as my 'off' day and then be panicking about getting my suitcase packed, going to the airport on sunday night.....no fun.


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Thanks to Loggedout for starting this thread. Since reading it, I came up with my own business idea. Next week I'm meeting with a friend of mine, who is also a business advisor, to discuss the idea.

Basically, I would go to the Public Library to collect information in forms of news articles and photos, and put them on CD or DVD for clients who then can share the fruits of my work with their family and friends. It's something I did for an acquaintance of mine a few weeks ago. I did it for free because I had so much fun doing it and that I have a lot of interest in what he was doing for work in the 60's. His name and pictures appeared occasionally in the newspapers. You can imagine yourself watching microfilms days in and days out? I can.

It's a lot of work and transit transport -you have to back and forth to the library, but it's something I like to do, and no stress. I think I could have charged him $500. I emphasize on "no stress" because I already have a 5 days a week job.


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## bean438 (Jul 18, 2009)

Spidey said:


> I guess you have to ask yourself, "How much is enough". You are already making about 3 times the salary of the average Canadian, and I would guess that even without working tons of OT, your salary would still be at least double that of the average Canadian. Maybe you should turn the question around and ask yourself if you could be focusing too heavily on the monetary aspects of life and perhaps even consider the possibility of a short sabbatical to reflect on what you really want.



Bingo. Exactly what i am trying to say, maybe a bit nicer.

I see where you are coming from, we all would rather have more money than less money.

You sound like you are in a good financial position, so as far as I can tell no "rat race" to escape from.

70 would be too old to enjoy financial rewards (assuming you live that long), but what is wrong with enjoying what you do for a career, live within your means, and save and invest wisely? It wont take you till 70, but by mid 50's you should be doing fine.
Work a side job if you like, or start a business.
It sounds though you want to invent the next facebook and sell it for a billion dollars, and live like Paris Hilton. At least that is the vibe I get.

80K with no debt is not a rat race.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

Taxsaver said:


> Basically, I would go to the Public Library to collect information in forms of news articles and photos, and put them on CD or DVD for clients who then can share the fruits of my work with their family and friends.


It sounds interesting and probably not a big deal if it's a hobby. But if you plan on making a business out of it, I can see an issue where you would have to license all the news articles and photos that you plan on using. After all, it isn't public domain, it is copyright material. 

Back to the OP I don't think asking others what the best course of action is the best idea. The better question is what do YOU feel like doing. Do you want to take a few years of schooling for a MBA and join the management ranks? Do you have a good entrepreneurial idea that you're willing to sacrifice time and energy to bring to fruition? Or do you feel that your lifestyle is quite comfortable, and only want to make a few changes, than maybe a part time job is in order, something with few responsibilities. There's no point in turning your life upside down just because you want to chase the almighty buck, unless you are unsatisfied with your life.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2009)

Hmmm...starting another business would take more of your time too. Similar to working extra projects. Buying RE and getting rental income would take up some of your time too. Learning to invest, to make more, would also take time. 

I guess you will just have to figure out what is the best way to spend your 'free' time to produce the extra income.

For me...reading more...learning more to invest is my 'free' time. I love it.

No work at all!


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## Taxsaver (Jun 7, 2009)

Making friend with someone who has a solid record of investment success must be fantastic. You get all his advice for free.


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## dagman1 (Mar 3, 2010)

I have not read through every comment... but suffice to say I am a former engineering student who has pursued further education, and so have many of my friends, so I have some comments. I left engineering in-part (besides lack of interest in the job, not the subject matter) for the same reason: it pays handsomly early on, especially being so young, but hits a ceiling very quick, leaving you with nowhere to go.

As for "having your own business," it makes no sense to open a business that doesn't leverage your current skills (i.e. unrelated to engineering). With a specialized skill-set that many people do not have, you will be paid accordingly for your experience. (Why charge $50/h to paint homes, when there a painters with more experience, who are better and faster than you, when you can charge $200/h for engineering services?)

As for going back to school, an MBA or law are two good examples, but you have to be doing these because you want to do them, not because you want to make more money. On the MBA, you dismissed it since you have technical skill, not management skills, but this is precisely the reason you would get an MBA, to teach you the skills you need to transition into management. A nice salary can be had if you have an MBA with an engineering degree and you move up through the ranks, although it will undoubtedly require hard work. On law, generally you need to full-out law degree to be really competitive, so I wouldn't recommend simply becoming a patent agent. Again, a nice salary can be had, but it requires a lot of training (moreso than the MBA) and a lot of hard work to make it pay dividends. I don't think a MASc would do much for your salary or career.

Alternatively, you could go into private practise doing engineering consulting, and make a run for partnership, depending on what discipline your practice in.

As for investing, you should be doing that no matter what your career, but I wouldn't count on anything other than modest returns on your capital, unless you are delusional.

Personally, at 30 with experience in the engineering field, I would get into the best MBA school that I could to make a transition to management. It has the best prospect of good pay, builds upon your previous experience, is relatively short and has low risk. Perhaps you can even get your work to pay for it.

But in sum no solution is going to give you an easy paycheck, so if working a ton of hours for a 150K wasn't worth it, well that is easily the amount of time you'll be putting in as a manager, lawyer, consultant or business owner.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

Seems to me that if you like what you are doing reasonably well, there is enough cash coming in. 

I left the workforce at 39. My highest two years would have been about $70 and $65K, all the rest under 50K. I only worked the equivalent of about 13 years, ie 13*200 days/year as when I did contract work at nice fat daily rates, I only worked about 100 days a year.

I was however ruthless with spending and lifestyle issues. You shouldn't need to be anywhere near as extreme as I was given your better earning potential.

It helps that I married a teacher, but even if I had not, I'd make do with $25000 a year once the house is paid for.

So I would say if you like what you do well enough, and can control your spending, do some prudent investing, you can be out by 40 too. If you take two years to go back to school, you might not like it, lose 2 years income, your engineering skills might go stale etc. All risk factors.

Another thing you can do is your own home renovation work. I always found physical grunt work that didn't take alot of thinking paired well with the intellectual stuff in the rest of my life. Plus when a tradesman costs $50 an hour these days, you have to make $100/hour to pay him. This isn't a bad second "job" if it is in your disposition. It is a job on which you pay no taxes.

My most important piece of advice is to know yourself. What kind of work do you really like? What kind of lifestyle is really right for you? If you understand these sorts of issues and live your life accordingly, the rest will take care of itself.

hboy43


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## shaune (May 2, 2010)

*Educate yourself*

Learn to invest in what you have control over and can understand.

Two good books to start, 
Greg Habstritt - The RRSP Secret
Mark Loeffler - Investing in Rent-To-Own Property

Also check out Mortgage Investment Corporations (MIC's) like Axcess Capital in Calgary or syndicated mortgage brokers like Cedar Peaks, also in Calgary. Both are very conservative. Both give steady monthly returns of 10-14%. Using the "Rule of 72" your money will double in about 6 yrs at 12%. Invest $200k today and have $1.6m in 18 yrs (by age 48).


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## Assetologist (Apr 19, 2009)

bean438 said:


> 80K with no debt is not a rat race.


Wow, I really don't understand what your definition of 'rat race is?!?!

The 'rat race' has nothing to do with how much money one makes rather how much time and life energy one expends in the pursuit of money.


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## loggedout (Dec 30, 2009)

financeguru said:


> The only way to be very rich is to work for yourself, i.e. open up a business. If you are not willing to do that then your options start to diminish.


This makes sense to me as the most likely way to become very rich. Figuring out the business and being successful at it is the difficult part. Also, I really like knowing ahead of time what my risks are. I need to be able to quantify the probability of success and failure. That's where I am really having trouble due to insufficient data. 



> On your other comments about being an engineer, making 80 K @ 30 is not bad at all. If you want to work for someone else then the professions that seem to pay a lot are consulting, law and medicine. All require significant time commitment and sacrifice. I was consulting for a while but the endless travel took a toll really quickly and the naive dreams i had of making partner by 35 vanished after that. Before i would come home at thursday or friday, spend saturday as my 'off' day and then be panicking about getting my suitcase packed, going to the airport on sunday night.....no fun.



I don’t have a problem with a significant time commitment or sacrifice to make money. But getting the opportunity to do that is the concern for me.

I wasn't complaining about the hours I worked...my concern is those hours aren’t guaranteed. I would gladly work them again but there has to be need for it, and I’m not in control of that. I was lucky and I took advantage of it, but what now?. Sure, I’ve advanced some in my career, made contacts, gained a good reputation on the job site but it’s not like those hours contributed to building a business directly. I want to figure out ways to generate a more than healthy/regular stream of income to meet my financial goals well into the future. Perhaps that is aiming too high but I've spent life aiming at easy targets, that the challenge itself is motivating.


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