# Farewell Andrew



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

*New leader fro Conservative party*

Andrew Scheer resigns as Conservative leader after new allegation surfaces.

_"He announced the decision Thursday morning at a caucus meeting and said he plans to ask the party to immediately begin planning a leadership race to succeed him."
_
So I wonder what CMF members think - who will be the next leader?

ltr


----------



## Dilbert (Nov 20, 2016)

I’m just glad he saw the light and did the right thing. They need someone young that the Millenials can understand.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Scheer at 40 is younger than Trudeau so age was not a factor at all. The issue was they can't have a social conservative who tries to straddle 2 fences. Scheer was always the compromise that came up the middle to win the leadership in the first place. Only a smallish minority voted for him on the first ballot. That almost never works. One needs someone to start strong and ride through in 1-3 ballots.

Added: I'd love to see Rona Ambrose as the new leader but it is hard to imagine she really wants it. It's a brutal game.


----------



## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Need someone who can lead, but that never happens in politics.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Shocking news.......theft ?


----------



## Eder (Feb 16, 2011)

To his credit he is bowing out early enough to allow time for a new leader. 

I hope this time we get someone with the skills to win an election...bilingual, caters to Quebec,perhaps female or batting left handed etc. (in other words political skill unnecessary)


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Andrew Scheer has resigned from party leadership. Who do you think should replace him?

I think the Conservatives need to find a fighter a la Jason Kenney. For a party out of power, nice and kind does not work. 

The best prospect I can think of is Peter McKay. He is bright and dynamic. It would be a nice match to see him on the debate stage with Trudeau and Singh.


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

Looks like I was beaten to it on another thread...


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

I wonder if Maxime Bernier had not left the party to start his own failed adventure, if he would be considered now. 

He came within a few votes of winning it when up against Scheer.

ltr


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Doug Ford should be the next Conservative leader.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Bernier is way too scary! Not a chance of him winning an election. Has to be a centrist Red Tory.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Topo said:


> I think the Conservatives need to find a fighter a la Jason Kenney. For a party out of power, nice and kind does not work.
> 
> The best prospect I can think of is Peter McKay. He is bright and dynamic. It would be a nice match to see him on the debate stage with Trudeau and Singh.



central canada is fast tiring of the endlessly blustering jason kenny. He'll set up an albert pension plan yielding 2.3% per annum (AIM's current return) so that albert pensioners will not be allowed to benefit from the magnificent federal CPPIB return of 8.9% ...

he'll spend millions building a foreign diplomatic & trade network for alberta in overseas capitals. Such network won't pay back for at least 30 years because new york, london, paris, berlin, hong kong, singapore, tokyo etc have never heard of alberta. Foreign trade missions depend 100% on known contacts but new missions won't have any contacts to begin with. It'll take decades to build special "contacts" for alberta, assuming that new york, london et al would be interested in investing in a dwindling fossil fuel economy ...

but the strutting & the postering go on. Kenny wants this. He wants that. He wants many things.

what's the alternative? Kenny is going to lead his landlocked province into separation? increasingly central canada is wondering if that might not be the best solution for everybody ...

as for Peter McKay, they say he's waiting to see whether the conservative party can stitch itself into something that would be worthy of him. If it cannot, then he will not.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> I wonder if Maxime Bernier had not left the party to start his own failed adventure, if he would be considered now.
> 
> He came within a few votes of winning it when up against Scheer.



think it's over for bernier even in quebec


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

sags said:


> Doug Ford should be the next Conservative leader.


I just heard on CBC that after sitting for 6 weeks, he is taking a 2 month break. 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-legislature-queens-park-winter-break-1.5392178

He would be an excellent choice (If you are a Liberal supporter  )


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> Doug Ford should be the next Conservative leader.



:biggrin: is this a :tongue:


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

I'm not a proponent of Kenny's political views, but no doubt he has the fire in his belly that works well for his party. Someone like him who could function as a "war time consigliere" would be good for Conservatives at this stage of the game. They need to take it to the next level.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

AltaRed said:


> Has to be a centrist Red Tory.



as a former national statesman of stature peter macKay is far & away the best candidate but the problem is the dishevelled conservative party is not worthy of him

the lunatic western oll lobby faction with their CEC "war room" are an example of the stuff that has to fade before a mcKay quality type can take over


----------



## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

Eder said:


> To his credit he is bowing out early enough to allow time for a new leader.
> 
> I hope this time we get someone with the skills to win an election...bilingual, caters to Quebec,perhaps female or batting left handed etc. (in other words political skill unnecessary)


There are plenty of people in Quebec ready to vote for a fiscal conservative, even if not fully bilingual / female / whatever. What most will never vote for is a social/religious conservative. That section of the party needs to accept the fact that they will not win an election with that kind of leader, no matter how much they think they're right.


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

^+1


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Topo said:


> Someone like him who could function as a "war time consigliere" would be good for Conservatives at this stage of the game. They need to take it to the next level.



do you think so? the view in central canada is that "take it to the next level" is exactly how the conservatives wlll lose bigtime

oil is not coming back, they're tilting at windmills


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

I don't mean anything drastic. Just to lean in a bit.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

off.by.10 said:


> There are plenty of people in Quebec ready to vote for a fiscal conservative, even if not fully bilingual / female / whatever.



we just had one. His name was maxime bernier. He couldn't even get elected in his own riding. (maxime's slight language handicap is with english, not the reverse) (his raunchy history shows that he sometimes does ok with the ladies though)


----------



## Userkare (Nov 17, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> central canada is fast tiring of the endlessly blustering jason kenny.


You mean "western Canada". no? Central Canada is ON + QC.


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

sags said:


> Shocking news.......theft ?


_The CPC officially clarifies Scheer had approval for certain spending of party funds on “differential” for school costs to move family to Ottawa._

https://mobile.twitter.com/TondaMacC/status/1205204266513776646

ltr


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

humble_pie said:


> think it's over for bernier even in quebec


Yeah, I agree. I'll bet he's kicking himself now. He just needed to check his ego for a short while and he would be the number one person in waiting right now. 

Maybe all for the best though.

ltr


----------



## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

Why do we have two threads on this?

Moderators?


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Trust Sags to come up with ignorant comments....skip....skip....skip.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Topo said:


> I don't mean anything drastic. Just to lean in a bit.



you did mean something drastic. You called for the conservatives to choose a leader who would act like a "war time" mafia don.

oh my. You'd like a real-life mafia leader as potentially the next prime minister of canada?

kenny seemed fine when he started out but he's carrying the sham strutting & the veiled threats too far. Central canada is beginning to talk OK Let Them Go If Separation Is What They Want.

the worry then would be BC. There are plenty of solid citizens in BC. However, some wit has pointed out that kenny's support starts to run thin north of calgary, so possibly only the southern portion of alberta would separate, thus leaving a big land bridge to BC via the peace.


----------



## moderator2 (Sep 20, 2017)

like_to_retire said:


> Why do we have two threads on this?
> 
> Moderators?


Threads have been merged into this one.

- M2


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Userkare said:


> You mean "western Canada". no? Central Canada is ON + QC.


i mean central canada

ottawa has a national mandate & will stand on its head to save the country. Has stood on its head to save the country, including socking out $12-15 billion to buy & build an expanded transMountain pipeline, as a gift to alberta, when nobody else in the world would purchase kinder morgan & the fort mcMurray bitumen was at risk to be landlocked forever.

but these days one can hear grass-roots whispers in central canada that are growing more audible. The whispers are saying Let Them Go.

the politicians aren't saying it & they won't say it; but the grass roots are whispering it.

.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

moderator2 said:


> Threads have been merged into this one.
> 
> - M2



oh thankx!


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Don't count on it being over for Scheer. Conservative insiders say the facts are still going to come out. 

Since taxpayer money is involved, I expect there will be an RCMP investigation.

I think it is telling that Conservatives don't want him to stay until there is a leadership convention. They want him gone now before the headlines get worse and drag on.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I think he did the right thing for himself, his family, and the Party. I wish him well. 

I also believe that Andrew Scheer was only part of the problem. This Conservative Party is really three, possibly four different parties with not of them apparently pulling in the same direction. Hence the lack of credible, cohesive policies and overall poor performance by those in the party. Really, is there any current Conservative MP that stands out as being a leader, being progressive, and having the ability to bring the disparate groups together? The ones that I can see are no longer sitting in Parliament. 

Time for a much more centre focused red tory to take the reigns. If the social conservatives get their way again this will be another bust at the polls and a win for the Liberals.

I may not have been happy with the Trudeau Liberals in the last election but I certainly could not bring myself to vote for either Scheer or the Conservative party. Perhaps next time they will have a better offering for voters.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

like_to_retire said:


> Yeah, I agree. I'll bet he's kicking himself now. He just needed to check his ego for a short while and he would be the number one person in waiting right now.
> 
> Maybe all for the best though



me i'd oppose bernier with every atom in my bod but the cardinal value of democracy is the ability for so many factions in a country to speak out & debate together. What maxime bernier actually did say as he campaigned was not so extreme. He did voice the views of many conservative persons all across canada, so that was A Good Thing imho.

unfortunately he did attract & he was supported by a lot of extremist thugs. Yellow vest types. 

the other thing that was unfortunate for Maxime is that andrew scheer's org did a revenge number on him re the dairy industry & the voters fell for it, the riding being full of farmers. Say la vee.


----------



## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

humble_pie said:


> we just had one. His name was maxime bernier. He couldn't even get elected in his own riding. (maxime's slight language handicap is with english, not the reverse) (his raunchy history shows that he sometimes does ok with the ladies though)


lol he went completely crazy with the last election, taking extreme views and talking himself out of existence. Didn't have much of a choice though, he had to paint himself as different from the CPC and the political landscape was getting crowded. The CPC still won his riding by the way. Most people there just vote to the right no matter what. Quebec is not as uniform as the media like to paint it.


----------



## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

off.by.10 said:


> lol he went completely crazy with the last election, taking extreme views and talking himself out of existence. Didn't have much of a choice though, he had to paint himself as different from the CPC and the political landscape was getting crowded. The CPC still won his riding by the way. Most people there just vote to the right no matter what. Quebec is not as uniform as the media like to paint it.


Maximes views aren't all that extreme. 
Unless they're misrepresented.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Jason Kenney says he doesn't want the leader job, but maybe he should reconsider.

His approval rating has fallen 15 points since September in Alberta, from 55% to 40%

Maybe Kevin O'Leary will be making a comeback.


----------



## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

MrMatt said:


> Maximes views aren't all that extreme.
> Unless they're misrepresented.


Depends who you ask I imagine. He's rather libertarian, which to the left is about as evil as communism is to the right.

I actually agree with a lot, at least the way he presented his views before he lost the CPC leadership. Didn't follow the election very closely but I stopped listening to him when he turned climate change denier. If your position is we shouldn't or can't do anything then just come out and say it. There are many arguments to be made for that. But to pretend the problem doesn't exist or we have nothing to do with it is just lame in my opinion. I find it as bad as the left claiming we could just print money to make everyone happy.

I hope the next CPC leader manages to come up with a reasonable platform and doesn't just try to avoid the issues while campaigning.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> Jason Kenney says he doesn't want the leader job, but maybe he should reconsider.
> 
> His approval rating has fallen 15 points since September in Alberta, from 55% to 40%
> 
> Maybe Kevin O'Leary will be making a comeback.




what kind of irresponsible behaviour is that?

he only just got elected in alberta & already kenney is answering questions about finding another spot in ottawa?

any alberta premier worth his salt would stay put & help alberta build a diversified economy. Should've 20 years ago but it's still not too late as long as the elected premier settles down & gets to work. Enuf with the swaggering around alternately threatening & whining about victimization.

alberta reportedly has a larger proportion of Come From Away residents than, say, the maritimes or rural quebec, so it seems like a good idea to develop some economic plans before many skilled but lightly-rooted alberta workers depart in search of jobs elsewhere.

kenney could ask ottawa for extra financial assistance with training programs. He could ask for a blitz of overseas federal diplomatic & trade commissioner help with finding foreign businesses that would locate a subsidiary or branch in alberta. He could ask for extra help in finding new immigrants who arrive with knowledge, skills & funds to open & operate new businesses. 

heaven knows the province is a gorgeous natural magnet with a full repertoire of attractive qualities including outstanding human resources. Any time i've ever visited calgary folks there keep saying how they're Living in God's Country. And they are.


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

sags said:


> Maybe Kevin O'Leary will be making a comeback.



O'Leary should be toast by now, he's such a bad boat backseat driver


----------



## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

off.by.10 said:


> lol he [maxime bernier] went completely crazy with the last election, taking extreme views and talking himself out of existence.




i paid attention somewhat to what bernier said during his campaign because i wanted to see if ultra-right extremism would appear.

it didn't appear in bernier's speeches or statements, although it did appear among his alt-right followers. IMHO bernier was on the right edge of the spectrum but he was still grounded on the canadian spectrum. He articulated mostly the same politick as quebec's premier francois legault is carrying out today. Low levels of immigration. Almost no refugees. No support for the UN or any other international org. Zero foreign aid. Zero foreign military peacekeeping. Fiscal restraint.

isolationism has always been present throughout rural french quebec's history, so the above are old, somewhat wornout ideas in this province.

plenty of conservatives all across canada had one or another or some or all of maxime bernier's views. For that matter plenty of small "l" liberals had one or some of bernier's views.

2 specific developments were what did bernier in. His ideas on dairy supply side management were soundly walloped by farmer voters in his riding. It's directly south of quebec city, the very heart of traditional Quebec Ag. Good grief what was bernier thinking, to try messing with cows & milk quotas? 

& the 2nd sad thing was that andrew scheer - who seems to have limitless capacity for accusation & revenge - pulled some dirty tricks to hammer bernier in the vote. For example scheer's org set up a puppet with the identical name of maxime bernier to run on the rhinocerus party ticket, with the expectation that some voters would be diverted.


----------



## dubmac (Jan 9, 2011)

Peter MacKay ? I wonder if he's interested.


----------



## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

humble_pie said:


> you did mean something drastic. You called for the conservatives to choose a leader who would act like a "war time" mafia don.
> 
> oh my. You'd like a real-life mafia leader as potentially the next prime minister of canada?
> 
> ...


That was tongue-in-cheek! I just like to see a feisty debate.


----------



## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I wonder if the social conservative wing of the CPC will realize that the best they can hope for is to have a leader that does not continue with socially progressive policies and instead maintains the status quo. Picking social conservatives is an albatross for the party in cities and means they will be left out of power. Fiscal conservatives can get elected all day.

A non-climate denying fiscal conservative candidate will be a strong contender. Who else are the social conservatives going to vote for? They can sit on the hands and stay home, but then the progressives like Libs/NDP can enact further scary social progressive policies (harm reduction strategies for illicit drugs, for instance).


----------



## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I think that is well understood by everyone other than the hard core deniers. The same clowns as the pro-lifers. Canadian society will no longer tolerate those trying to limit choice.

Michelle Rempel Garner said that explicitly today. I hope she runs along with Rona Ambrose and Michael Chong. Michael was my first choice in the last leadership run coming in 5th. Erin O'Toole has already thrown in his hat. I dont think he has the charisma or animation to compete. Too much armed forces in his background.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

The Liberals are already moving ahead with popular policy changes and will present an economic fall update on December 16.

By the time the Conservatives get around to selecting a leader, most likely after a bitterly contested leadership race, the Liberals will be in office long enough to implement a wide array of popular policies. The negative issues are largely gone. SNC is in the capable hands of the AG, Jane Phillpott is gone, and Jody Wilson Raybould is in the basement (or soon will be). Those issues will be long behind the Liberals by the next election.

It looks to me that regardless of who the Conservatives select as leader, Trudeau will be PM until at least 2025.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

I would not make that prediction. In politics anything can happen. Especially with a minority Government.

One thing for certain....this business of washing their dirty laundry over the Scheer children's private school tuition in public does not bode well for the Conservative Party. Should be done in private. This is only Party business. It tells me that the divisions and the resentment inside that Party are deeper than ever. It will take an amazing leader to overcome that. You only have to look at the damage that such internal divisions did to the Ontario Progressive Conservative party for years. 

We need a strong, cohesive Opposition Party in Canada. One that has actual policy alternatives and one that is ready to form a Government should Canadians give them the nod. That has not existed for the past few years. And a leader who is not a consolation prize.


----------



## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Are you predicting no major gaffes from this governing party and its leader over the next 4 years as well as policies that please everyone? How much money would you wager on that?


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

No. But I think we should be prepared for the unexpected. Many Conservatives fully expected Harper to win his last election. They grossly underestimated how tired and unhappy voters were with his Government. They underestimated Trudeau's performance. It was a disaster for them. It could happen to any Party, including the Liberals. Their biggest weapon in the past has been the Conservative Party.


----------



## heyjude (May 16, 2009)

off.by.10 said:


> There are plenty of people in Quebec ready to vote for a fiscal conservative, even if not fully bilingual / female / whatever. What most will never vote for is a social/religious conservative. That section of the party needs to accept the fact that they will not win an election with that kind of leader, no matter how much they think they're right.


+1000

I live in Western Canada. Philosophically I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. There is no way in hell I could vote for a party dominated by right wing social policies. If Rona Ambrose becomes the Conservative leader, I will give the Conservatives serious consideration next time.


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

^ I feel exactly the same way.


----------



## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

From cbc :


> Conservative commentator Geoff Norquay said the next leader must have a national vision that resonates with voters in urban areas, women and Canadians concerned about climate change.


Unfortunately JT already has a job


----------



## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Then Geoff Norquay and the Conservative Party have one thing in common. They were both a day late and a dollar short.

The way I view it is that we can hardly expect a political party that is so divided within it's own ranks to present a cohesive vision for Canada, let a lone a set of well defined policy initiatives. Red tory, social conservatives, western rump, eastern money barons/movers/shakers, and the Quebec wing. All seem to be pulling in various directions but never all together in the same direction at the same time. Seems to me to be a combo of the Reform Party, the Christian Heritage Party, and the Credetistes from Real Couette's days with a few red Torries mixed in to smooth out some bumps. No wonder the folks in the maritime provinces feel left out.

They are too busy trying to herd cats in within their Party to put forward anything other than a watered down medioce/ambiguous platform. Plus, as we have seen, even that can go out the window when they punt the leader in favour of some other poor Joe or Jill who has more trouble with his/her own party than with the Government of the day! 

The party is the problem. Scheer was simply an illustration of this inherent problem. Lets hope the Conservatives start to move down the road to recovery. They need to make some hard choices that will no doubt alienate some members or perhaps cause them to leave the Party. So it will take a leader with vision, with guts, and one who has a strong cadre of experienced political avisors who are loyal to the leader and who place the well being of the party above some small but influential sub groups in the party.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Conservatives will choose their leader at the end of July.

It seems like a long time to hope the minority government stands and there is no snap election.

Oddly enough, the Conservatives may be forced to vote for Liberal legislation they don't like just to delay an election call until they have a leader and a platform.

Will the Liberals play nice and avoid putting the Conservatives in such a bind ? We shall see how it all plays out.

With all that is going on with Trump and a Conservative leadership contest in Canada........2020 promises to be a good year for political junkies.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Rona is out. It doesn't look good for the Conservatives if she figured they had no chance of winning.


----------



## sags (May 15, 2010)

Pierre Poilievre is out. Jean Charest is out. Peter McKay looks like he is in.


----------

