# Young People and Relationships: Dating, Marriage and Wealth



## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

I think this kind of topic would get a ton of hate on other forums but I figured this discussion might be interesting on a forum where everyone very much recognizes the importance of money on a secure and comfortable life. Here is an interesting topic I found that discusses how love is for the rich, or at least, marriage is. 

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/08/study-love-is-for-the-rich.html

As a person in my early twenties, I cannot help but acknowledge the harsh financial realities that faces young people like myself who would like to start a family in mid-late twenties. I was extremely lucky to get a fairly high paying job out of university but I still feel troubled by how I can aim to achieve a comfortable family life in the future considering the high cost of housing and job instability. Of course, the fact that my peers, and potential dates, on a majority haven't been as lucky. So many young people are under employed or unemployed, from mid twenties to late twenties to even early thirties. I am a hard working person who is very career oriented and I expect a partner that could hold his weight in family life as I won't earn enough to support a family in Toronto nor do I personally feel like I should. Statistically speaking, I think it may be pretty challenging for me to find someone around my age (4-6 year gap), around the same salary (or higher) and fulfil all the wonderful things of love. I suppose the career and financial stability would happen if I marry someone much older. I do see marriage as a vehicle to bring a sense of contentment into my life that being single cannot but at the same time there are steep financial implications to marrying "poor" or remaining single. I envision that if I were to marry someone who in all accounts is a wonderful husband (shares responsibilities, responsible, supportive and loving but alas unambitious and is in a low growth/low paying career) but cannot provide the financial support needed to support goals such as buying a home, going on modest vacations and saving for retirement, I would be quite unhappy as financial independence is very important to me and feel unfair to shoulder all of the financial burden. I have read some posts from this forum where savings really took off after marriage where one paycheck was completely saved. On top of that, if I were to have child (children is almost impossible in my view) I would feel obligated to provide for their post secondary education, which not only is not cheap but may not be worth it. I really do feel like my generation has it a lot worse than previous generations in this respect.

Perhaps my pessimistic outlook is wrong. So how do you think young people should approach dating and marriage in these tough economic times? I'm eager to hear your thoughts.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I think you have to stop focusing on the $$$.I have been changing somewhat over the last year and have finally ''put'' money in perspective(Early 30's,about a 1/2 million saved/80-100k(-bonus)a year in salary.I'm not stupid(below a lot of cmfer's) rich but certainly i would think rich in the under 35 demo(i am single)
The thing is money and all it can buy is vastly over-rated imo(i'm being dead serious!)Security/cars/trips ect and a lot of money in the bank is not going to ''solve'' problems or realtionships challenges or personal changes ect(it is just PAPER!Half of us are not even going to spend half are saving esp cmfer's)
This is going to sound wierd being a money forum but MONEY is overated!Trust me.....it is not some magic bullet.You have to find happiness and success outside the dollars!I think people mistake that money is automatic bliss and life will be void of problem/challenges ''if'' you are secure.
Look for a mate with positive characteristics over money ie:they happy/healthy/positive/fit ect.People will chime in a disagree with me but it is honestly how i feel......change your outlook and put money in its ''perspective'' place.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

froufrou said:


> Statistically speaking, I think it may be pretty challenging for me to find someone around my age (4-6 year gap), around the same salary (or higher) and fulfil all the wonderful things of love. I suppose the career and financial stability would happen if I marry someone much older.


You remind me a bit of this women on TED talks  It's an interesting video I thought. Lately the older folks on here have been accusing the millennials of being too entitled and starry-eyed, but I hear you. Statistically speaking, you may have it easier to find a 20-something financially ambitious guy than a young financially ambitious girl? Or maybe the grass just always looks greener on the other side? Surely though financially ambitious guys are out there and I think you should be patient and very picky. You still have lots of time and being single is financially better than getting divorced?... Online dating beats the night clubs imo!

Although I agree 2 big salaries would be ideal, I think if you stick around this forum you may see that you don't need to spend what most people do. My key to financial independence is to not blindly follow the crowd. There are many many alternate ways you could still become financially independent without 2 big salaries imo. Someone with a modest salary might complement the relationship in another way etc etc. You want a house and a child but does it have to be in Toronto? I think it's easier to accumulate wealth and experience in Toronto but you could always move later to where houses and life costs a fraction as much, and the traffic is not so bad


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## mcoursd2006 (May 22, 2012)

Financial independence doesn't necessarily mean that you can go out an buy whatever you want without worrying about where the money comes from. Sure it's nice to have to not worry about it, but, as Donald stated, you have to put things into perspective. There are things in this this world way more important than money, and there are things that money just can't buy. Your health, the health of your loved ones, for instances, although mostly beyond your control, is more important. 

I'm going to a funeral today for a cousin who died last week after battling pneumonia and a host of other ailments. He worked hard all his life and amassed a sizable estate. He leaves behind a wife and two children. He was in his late 50's. That, my friends, puts things into perspective.

I know the OP is young, single, and without children. My advice to her is that if she wants to become financially independent early then don't have children. They are huge money pits!


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Find the right person.

They've got to be a fit in attitude and perspective and long term goals.

Money comes and goes.
Good job today, bad job in the future, or bad prospects today and good prospects in the future. 
Why reject someone who will give you a lifetime of companionship, just because their paycheck is too small today? 

To the OP, I think it's funny that you're okay being the lower income partner, but not being the higher income partner.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

This is a values question, not really a finance question. You should marry someone who shares the same values as you do. It isn't impossible to find someone who shares your values, nor is buying a house, having kids, saving for retirement and even for your kid(s)' PSE impossible. 

I don't think young people today have it significantly worse than I did or my grandparents did. My parents (my dad is 77 and my mom is 75) are part of a single generation who historically had great opportunities (but guess what? The cost of post-secondary education, adjusted for inflation, was actually *much higher* when my dad went to school in the 1950s...and he had to pay for it himself entirely, while paying rent to live with his parents).


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Frou-frou:

My husband has never made as much as I have. Never. Nonetheless, we are both frugal and responsible, and share the responsibilities of building a life together. Which is to say, we both pull our weights, don't worry about each chore and responsibility being exactly shared half and half, and pick up the slack if the other is sidelined, tired or overwhelmed. 

We celebrate our ninteenth anniversary this week.

I hope you find someone who makes you as happy as he makes me.


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## jordan_paul (Jul 1, 2013)

Wow. Just Wow.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I do think though women have a ''shot'' at a better chance marrying ''up'' so maybe you have something.
I keep hearing about ''all'' these young women out-earning male counter-parts.I don't know if it is in my city(wpg)maybe social circle (i have friends in both the blue and white collar sector/highly educated)but i hardly know any women that earn more.......IS THIS REALLY TRUE?
I have dated a lot of women(fr financial brokers/teachers/accountants/ ect)and i don't think i have ever been involved with a women that has out-earned myself(I'm talking even + 80k a yr and or liquid assets above 100k excluding a house-under 35 demo)However i know a lot of men(friends ect)That have substantial assets.
I am always wondering where the rich women are?anyways?I know toronto and van are in a different sphere than Winnipeg,but.....Is there really a lot of well-healed young men out there for the taking late 20's(exc family money?)Dating is so much different for females!I said it before in another post(resources a man can support is so very important)
I remember seeing a 20/20 special on men(short men actually)and recall a man under 5 8'' had to make 4 times the wage of a man 6' to be even considered.I have always been so interested in women's mate selection,across the board.Women are interesting how they select lol(fixer upers and bad boys included)


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

There are lots of female doctors in the world, and I'd bet they out-earn a guy who's a non-doctor a large percentage of the time. I myself out-earn my husband by a large margin, but I thought he was rich when I met him, haha.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Well yeah of course a doctor(that is a given!you could add lawyer and even perhaps a real estate agent ect)
I'm just a regular guy spudd.I'm just saying most times if i go ''out'' and meet young women(i dunno like at the local pub or moxies or something)It is rare i run into a female doctor or a high powered women!That could be though that in one's early 30's late 20's most people have not capped out.
In my city 100k a yr is considered a pretty large salary(again i'm not talking toronto/van ect)


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Gotta agree with jordan_paul on this one.

You aren't going to get everything you want. Period. Entering into a marriage/relationship from such a strictly business stance won't get you very far.

Find somebody to love. Sure, they should have similar morals/beliefs/goals as you. but discounting a person because they make less than you?

It's never easy, for anybody. This generation (of which I am part of) has it hard, economically speaking. But I haven't had to go off to war. I haven't seen friends die in the trenches. I haven't lost a mother due to the flu, or childbirth. My father didn't die working in the coal mines.

There was no great depression. I haven't lived in a world that felt kids needed to learn to hide under the desk in school in case the bombs fell.

Life is good. Finding a job can be hard. Beats getting shot at.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

In my eyes the best approach is for both parties to accept responsibility. Come hell or high water people always come first, People come first for eveything including money, things & for even those that believe in god they should never put god ahead of people. The most important eyes to trust are always your own.

Money Gal is right values are key. If there are conflicting values in the relationship one will be destroying that which the other is trying to build i.e., if one partner places things above people & the other places money above things they have conflicting values. KISS dont make it complicated


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## tiffbou2 (Jul 4, 2013)

crazyjackcsa said:


> Gotta agree with jordan_paul on this one.
> 
> You aren't going to get everything you want. Period. Entering into a marriage/relationship from such a strictly business stance won't get you very far.
> 
> ...



I think you have great perspective.
OP, you should look up this guy. :encouragement:


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## crazyjackcsa (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks Tiffbou! But I'm already married, to a wonderful woman who makes less than me (she started out making more).

Besides, I earn about 1/3 what the OP is looking for in a man.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

The problem is that you are too successful. 

Lots of good comments here, but I like MG's comment about values. You happen to be very successful early on, but finding someone else with the same success at the samee age is not that likely. One approach is to look for someone with the same values (or ambition - whatever you want to call it) and assume that eventually they will be successful. Or just wait to make a commitment - there isn't a big rush.

Another idea is to think about what super-successful people do ie doctors/ceos etc. Do they all date/marry people at their same level? I'm thinking not.


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

When I met my future wife I had no idea what she made in terms of income. If anything, she seemed to be in a low income bracket to me - no car, lived in a small condo with a room mate. Once things had progressed nicely, and there was an unspoken understanding that we wanted to be together, specifics about our respective careers were revealed. In truth, she made more money than me - considerably more. Her lifestyle didn't match her income because she naturally embraced a LBYM lifestyle, something I really believed in as well.

Now 12 years later, 41 years old, very happily married, having banked/invested one income while living on the other we are on the verge of financial independence. The financial aspect of our relationship has been a wonderful bonus - but make no mistake, when we first met it was the other things that mattered more - common interests and beliefs, life goals, physical attraction, etc.

Really, I got lucky... I did not enter this relationship with $$$$ dancing in my head. I think if you enter a relationship with this as priority one, you are doomed to failure.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

My husband and I were both dirt poor and built up what we have today , money was not even a factor when we started out and God knows we have faced many challenges together since then.If i were single and looking for a new husband I would go to Vegas and find a $25,000 buy in game lol.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

I think MoneyGal nailed it about values. Someone who earns less could help accumulate wealth in many ways if they value doing so (support you to increase yours, DIY skills to save money ect etc). Someone who makes as much or more could easily waste it and be detrimental to your net worth. Besides, I think one person usually has to make sacrifices to their career if the other is ambitious... 2 x CEO-wannabes would probably make a disastrous couple, no?

Also I have a feeling this thread may have been sparked by one of MG's recent comments in a very similar thread



MoneyGal said:


> How young people get ahead is by either delaying their large purchase decisions (house) or by accelerating their wealth accumulation by pairing with a similar, like-minded spouse.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

I would bet my life savings that "froufrou" is chinese. Am I right?


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## mcoursd2006 (May 22, 2012)

Sherlock said:


> I would bet my life savings that "froufrou" is chinese. Am I right?


What has this got to do with anything??? Are you asking if the name is Chinese or if the OP is Chinese? Are you basing that on some kind of stereotype? And again, what does this have to do with anything? Completely inappropriate.


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## Y3LLoWF3LLoW (Sep 30, 2013)

As someone who is about to get married, and who is marrying a partner that is in a lower income bracket, I'd like to share my thoughts too.

I am chinese, and I have grown up with very mixed feelings about money. My parents are very frugal, very distrusting towards everybody else. Its always about getting the best deal and bang for your buck. Always about the bottom line. But then I've also been taught to share everything with family.

So right now, I have a hard time coming to terms that everything I've worked so hard for the last 4 years will basically be split in half. Its like I could have lived more indulgently and come into the marriage with the same financial status as my wife to be.

But I think I am slowly starting to realize, that a partner can contribute in ways that are not strictly monetary. The easiest example to think of are kids. If you both are at high income jobs, I would imagine it takes a considerable amount of your day and mental energy (if not then good for you, youre living the life). Then also, you'd probably get a babysitter, come home stressed, and less time with your kids. Where as if your lower income partner, desides to be a stay at home mom/dad, your kids will get the attention they deserve from their actual parent. How do you put a price on that?

I think money makes a marriage easier, but it wont keep a bad marriage going.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

What you come in with is still yours, it wont' be split in half.

What gain during the marriage will be split.

That being said, my married life is better in every way than my single life.
I have more disposable income, and a friend to enjoy my life with.

I'm ahead Financially,emotionally and quality of life, it really was a no brainer.

If you think getting married to that person now isn't going to be better for your overall life, DON'T DO IT.
Both you and the person you are marrying deserves partners who are both in it for real.


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## mcoursd2006 (May 22, 2012)

YellowFellow, I am not sure what being Chinese has anything to do with this topic. Perhaps I missed something in a previous post, but at any rate, I would think that when you enter into a marriage that you are in it _for life_. Perhaps I am being naive, and perhaps if my marriage fell apart I would feel differently. Don't you have that gut feeling that this is the woman/man with whom you want to spend the rest of your life before you get married? If you have doubts, obviously you would be thinking about what she brings and what you bring, and how it would be split should you split. Call me naive, simplistic, romantic, foolish.


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## froufrou (Aug 18, 2013)

By no means am I saying to _discount_ someone just because their lower income. Obviously, the partner can make up for it in numerous other ways, household chores, child rearing, companionship. However, I do not plan on having children for various personal reasons so the whole child rearing aspect is not a factor. On top of that, I believe that if I can make it in the world by _myself_ why can't he do the same? That is a trait I highly value, independence and maybe more importantly, ambition. My goal in life is to live a more comfortable financial life free from the incessant concerns about money and jobs growing up. Someone made a comment about someone wealthy who could squander it away. Clearly, this is not the type of person I'm looking for either. 

I am only looking for my equal in spirit, value and drive. Besides, I'm of the firm belief that if you work hard in the _right way_ there is very little liklihood that you wouldn't succeed.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

froufrou said:


> I am only looking for my equal in spirit, value and drive.


I think it's better to find someone who is compatible than necessarily an equal.

I know many couples, some balanced, some not. Some are complete opposites.
One of the more interesting is a couple with one Super competitive, insanely driven, aggressive partner, the other is the most calm, laid back, easygoing person I know. Other than them both being smart, committed and honest, they have little in common as far as personality, interests or even eating habits, but they're quite happy together.


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## mcoursd2006 (May 22, 2012)

froufrou said:


> Obviously, the partner can make up for it in numerous other ways, household chores, child rearing, companionship.


Is that in order of importance?

Froufrou, I think it's great that you've done so well for yourself and have ambition and drive. And you may very well find someone to marry. Do you really want to marry a counterpart like yourself? I believe that marriage is doomed to failure.


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## dude_smile (Aug 16, 2013)

I find this to be a much bigger than in bigger cities in Toronto. I just moved to Toronto from a smaller city, and on the dates I've been on so far it seems like I am being interview on my dates. "You work for the government? How does that Pay?" "Your a social worker? I hear there overworked and underpaid" This never happened before I moved to the big city.

I enjoy my job, and don't mind coming into work everyday. I know I'm not going to make anywhere near some of those in the financial district, or be able to buy a house in Lawrence Park or Rosedale, but I am ok with that. I'd rather find someone that I enjoy spending my time with, struggle together financial if we have to, and enjoy little trips here and there with the right person that be with someone because they fit a list of criteria that I made for my ideal partner.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

Why get married?why not just find a equal as you say(being serious)Because you can make it by yourself why not just date(plenty of men out there that are ok with that,live in your own house/he @ his)@ any given time there is likely 25% of males single(divorce ect)I don't think it would be to uncommon to find mid/late 20's that work in the financial district-Date like a wealthy man would in your position-problem solved.


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## Feruk (Aug 15, 2012)

Money is a nice to have. It alone can't make you happy any less than a partner with a lot of it can make you happy. Find someone you love and are compatible with. Even if one of you is better off or more wealthy, you might find that someone compatible will have similar views on spending habits.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

froufrou said:


> By no means am I saying to _discount_ someone just because their lower income. Obviously, the partner can make up for it in numerous other ways, household chores, child rearing, companionship.


On reflection, that's the part that upset me, but that's my value.
My partner and I are no better or worse due to income. There is nothing to make up for. I really consider the relative amounts we bring into the household as a relatively insignificant part of our relationship. I know couples that work that way, and though it may work for them, it doesn't work for me.
There is something about that whole attitude, that you decide their value and how much they mean, based on some third parties $ valuation of the work.

I say no.

I've also seen those relationships get messy if one loses their job, or if they have to decide on one job for another. That's not the way I want to live.


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