# First Time Buying a Condo



## Audrey_I (Sep 8, 2011)

This is a question for any condo owners out there:

I am looking into buying my first condo. I work full-time as a teacher and have saved up a decent sum. I've been renting a one bedroom in Mount Pleasant for 3 years now and am starting to think about ownership.

I'm wondering if anyone has any insider information on Morgan Crossing in South Surrey. In particular, their newest development, The Summit House 

I scoured their website, trying to figure out if it's the right place for me, but it's tough to get a real sense of a place through a website. Does anyone live there, or know of people who live there? The suites are beautiful but I'm trying to gain a sense of the lifestyle and community.

Thanks in advance!

A.


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## Charlie (May 20, 2011)

good luck Audrey.

Mt Pleasant to South Surrey is a big change. When we started looking to buy we spent some time in our potential neighbourhoods to get the vibe. Commuted during rush hour too (if that's an issue). We walked around at night, on the weekend, and checked out the local spots and talked to people we met. This knocked a couple of places off the list. Endeared us to others.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Not sure why you would come here to ask us about what you should think about the community. This may be spam in disguise, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and echo what charlie said. Size up the area yourself, get off the computer, go there in person when people are actually home and see if you could handle the commute and neighborhood. All of these sorts of things are personal gut feeling that no one online can really advise you on. You need to see it for yourself. Websites always show the best and ignore anything negative.


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## meddlesomemarmots (Feb 16, 2011)

Audrey_I said:


> This is a question for any condo owners out there:
> 
> I am looking into buying my first condo. I work full-time as a teacher and have saved up a decent sum. I've been renting a one bedroom in Mount Pleasant for 3 years now and am starting to think about ownership.
> 
> ...


If you are dead set on buying something (and at present I would not really be overly interested in buying the market vs paying rent) - then for a condo I would suggest you look at a few things.

Firstly new developments. Don't fall for any crap about 'low strata fees' from a developer - we've seen at work many an owner who was captivated by the low strata fee pricing, only to see it increase by a $1,000 a year after a year or two of ownership. Secondly a new development is nice for the reason, that it is easier to make your mark on the strata, and get involved with the council, and whatever else is going on at the complex.

Personally I'd prefer to get someone that is 2 years old, where you know who the management company is (this can affect the strata positively or negative in a big way), and will have more resources at your disposal, other than the developers sales pitch. 

Also look very carefully at _everything_ related to the strata. You want everything from minutes, to reports on the complex - everything that you can get your hands on. Do not expect someone to willingly disclose something they are not legally obliged to. I'd become well versed with the Strata Property Act, so you know what will be legally expected of you, and read the Bylaws of any potential units carefully, so you know what you're getting into (as a renter I imagine you're aware of building specific rules, but don't assume that everywhere is the same).

Hope this helps with understanding the 'lifestyle' you should expect at most strata's - paperwork, trying to solve headaches with councils/management companies and due diligence will be your new lifestyle with your shiny new 'ownership' badge!


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## Berubeland (Sep 6, 2009)

The reason condo fees go up after 2 years is simple. The developer has significant motivation to keep them artificially low.

1 - Condo fees are included in the calculation to qualify you for your new home.

2 - Obviously people buying also want to get low condo fees and take this into account when selecting a condo. 

3 - For the first few years when the condo is first built the developer is the manager or selects the manager.

4 - One year after the units are registered and mostly sold the developer then turns over the management to a third party manager who cannot continue to manage at a loss. The on site developer already has staff and people onsite fixing things which are replace by contractors who must charge more. 



That's why.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Good post by berube. My condo fees were $254 when I moved in (1-2 yr old bldg), then jumped to $350 very shortly after. Then continued to rise in the years that followed.

The older towers across the road were charging $450 a month. I would hate to see what they are now. Good thing I left that monstrosity of a city. These rates are nuts.


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## ddkay (Nov 20, 2010)

The maintenance fee in my building (completed 1990) is 48 cents / sq ft, a lot of newer buildings have lower fees on a dollar basis but for all the reasons Berubeland mentioned. Also, developers typically give you much less square footage to begin with to pack in more units for their bottom line (they aren't in the business to lose money) and keep the rates somewhat proportionate. I.e. the "den" is actually a bedroom, etc. So $250 fees for 525 sq ft is still 48 cents / sq ft. They try not to make it blatantly obvious, anything under 45 cents a square foot is probably pushing their budget off a cliff, especially if amenities offered are the works (gardens, bbq, pool, tennis court, threatre, personal spa, restaurant) - for all that I would expect the 'true' maintenance fees to be at least double, no less than 80 cents / sq ft.


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## meddlesomemarmots (Feb 16, 2011)

Berubeland said:


> The reason condo fees go up after 2 years is simple. The developer has significant motivation to keep them artificially low.
> 
> 1 - Condo fees are included in the calculation to qualify you for your new home.
> 2 - Obviously people buying also want to get low condo fees and take this into account when selecting a condo.
> ...


Yup spot on. Would you completely trust a used car salesman about how much his warranty-less car is going to cost after you buy it? Then why a condo developer?

Just see how on your side a developer is when you do the deficiency reports at 2, 5 and 10 years!


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

$450 a month in condo fee is ridiculous, unless there pool, spa, gym and a damn permanent circus on the block !


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Apparently it's ok, larry81, because I'm not "throwing my money away in rent" and "paying someone else's mortgage".


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I know people who pay $600 a month maintenance fees on condos that are only $300,000 .It is not for me but for them they get two underground parking spots ,couple lockers and have a decent amount of space.It really depends on your lifestyle choices if condo living is for you.be interesting to find out what the typical renter saves in a year ,any renters i know seem to spend most of their earnings.I have a niece who has bought and sold 4 houses properties in 10 years and has accumulated about $300,000 profit in that time , I am sure she would not have that much saved in 10 years.Many look at the mortgage as forced savings as they would lack the discipline to save otherwise.
Recently I tried to discourage my friend from buying a $500,000 townhouse which had a $450 condo fee.She knows she will have to sell in 2-3 years at most and she could have rented a better house for less than her mortgage and fees.She moved in april and according to her that unit has increase $45,000 since then.But she is so rate sensitive , if her variable goes to 3% she is screwed as her income is so tight right now.


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## Audrey_I (Sep 8, 2011)

*Thanks for all the input!*



Charlie said:


> good luck Audrey.
> 
> “Mt Pleasant to South Surrey is a big change. When we started looking to buy we spent some time in our potential neighbourhoods to get the vibe. Commuted during rush hour too (if that's an issue). We walked around at night, on the weekend, and checked out the local spots and talked to people we met. This knocked a couple of places off the list. Endeared us to others.”
> 
> ...


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

I bought one condo in a small building once where it is self managed and I was the VP. The council meets frequently and do the hiring for contractors on anything. Since I was part of the decision making, you can bet that we really get fair pricing. We did so by leaning on all our social connections to get things done (Lawyers, inspectors, electricians, lawn maintenance, snow removal). Homeowners are mostly rich and the amount of social connections available in a condo building is amazing. After a 3 year period, there's a $3000 charge on everyone for major renovation to correct a structural flaw that causes water leakage.

Just to show you the differences in how much things are jacked up.

I paid $80 per month for 3 years. With the big expense at the end the maintenance fees amounts to $160 over 3 years.


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## Saniokca (Sep 5, 2009)

Audrey_I said:


> Some are encouraging me, saying things will improve, might as well take the plunge rather than spending more hard-earned dollars on rent.
> 
> I don't know!!! I'm tired of renting but am wary of buying.


This is too funny... "might as well put 300k (or 400?, 500?) at risk"

Yeah might as well... Spend your dollars on renting money instead 

Stop pulling hair and do the math  or let us do it for you...


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## sideways (Feb 20, 2012)

*Thought for all buyers*



Audrey_I said:


> This is a question for any condo owners out there:
> 
> I am looking into buying my first condo. I work full-time as a teacher and have saved up a decent sum. I've been renting a one bedroom in Mount Pleasant for 3 years now and am starting to think about ownership.
> 
> ...


My sister, also a teacher, just purchased her first condo in Toronto. Upon moving in to her one year-old unit, we discovered that the previous owner replaced a few of the quality door handles that came with the unit with cheaper versions. The change was quite noticeable, as the original door handles matched the handles of the front door and the knobs that exist throughout the public areas of the condo.

My sister had "before" pictures on her phone from one of her post-closing visits to confirm the change.

Upon telling the realtor and requesting the original knobs, the seller denied making the change. After presenting the photos as evidence, he changed his tune and claimed that the handles broke just before closing so he replaced them.

My sister's lawyer is on this, but ultimately, the only way to get the original knobs will likely be to go to small claims court.

Don't know how one would prevent this sort of thing, but one lesson learned is to always take lots of pictures before closing.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Taking pictures as soon as possible after an offer is accepted is a wise step for any buyer.
Pictures are proof of any disputes. We had the exhaust hood pulled and got it returned on one of our purchases. Plus damage to the walls during their moveout process.

A picture is compelling evidence. In our case, the appraiser from the real estate agency took the pictures and vouched for the dates taken.


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