# Wheat-free Lifestyle



## zylon

*Dr William Davis, MD*, author of "_Wheat Belly_" responded to the _Wall Street Journal's_ report of a new proposed classification of the various forms of gluten sensitivity.

This short letter is a great introduction to the idea of a wheat-free lifestyle, for those who are new to the concept. Is it another passing fad? ... not if what people are saying about going wheat-free is true.

Snip from the letter:


> 2) The amylopectin A of wheat is the underlying explanation for why two slices of whole wheat bread raise blood sugar higher than 6 teaspoons of table sugar or many candy bars. It is unique and highly digestible by the enzyme amylase. Incredibly, the high glycemic index of whole wheat is simply ignored, despite being listed at the top of all tables of glycemic index.
> http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/02/my-letter-to-the-wall-street-journal-its-more-than-gluten/











Dr Davis, MD


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## steve41

First sugar, now wheat. WTF is going on? Bob Atkins must be spinning in his grave.


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## zylon

*book review from Reader's Loft blogspot*

Snip:


> There were a few things that William Davis mentions in his book but doesn't really explore. The first is that more women than men appear to be affected by celiac disease and gluten intolerance. I have always wondered why. He also can't explain why some people have no problem with wheat. They maintain a healthy, slim figure and can eat wheat with no reactions. It is not a negative against Dr. Davis, but I think there is plenty of room for additional research.
> http://readersloft.blogspot.com/2012/02/wheat-belly.html


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## carverman

Everything is bad for you these days...

sugar is bad for you,
milk is bad for you
gluten is bad for you,
processed foods are bad for you (too many carciogenic additives)
meat (other than non hormone laced..raised in the mountains of Tibet) is bad for you
sugar drinks are bad for you
alcoholic drinks are bad for you
sex is bad for you (various diseases)
city air is bad for you
tap water is bad for you
dust/mold is bad for you
some cheeses are bad for you
fruit veggies(other than expensive certified organic by a monk at the source) are bad for you
canned foods (soups that have too much salt)..bad for you..heart attacks.

all kinds of gov't taxes are bad for you 
too many credit cards are bad for you

Gee..will the human race survive eating just wheat grass slurry...we might as well just give up and stop eating and drinking..then we can live for a long long time..and Harper will have to raise the old age pensions to at least 75!


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## Karen

As a diabetic (type 2) since 1998, I have been eating a very low-carbohydrate diet for the last ten years. Then four years ago I was diagnosed with celiac disease, so that restricted my diet even more. I follow a book called "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution" written by a type 1 diabetic doctor (Richard K. Bernstein), an endocrinolist who practices in New York. (Note he is *NOT* the Dr. Bernstein who operates diet clinics throughout Canada.) I limit my carbohydrates to 30 grams a day and eat no bread or wheat products, potatoes, rice, sugar, or sweet and starchy vegetables. By following Dr. Bernstein's recommendations, I keep my blood glucose levels perfectly normal and my health has improved in many other unexpected ways. I'm never tempted to cheat because I feel so much better, and I wouldn't go back to "normal" eating even if I could.

I can eat any meat or fish; eggs; most dairy products, with the exception of milk because it's very high in lactose (a sugar); low-carb vegetables such as salad greens, green beans, cauliflower, broccoli, zucchini, asparagus, spinach, cabbage, and turnips. I bake with almond meal or coconut meal and make a delicious cheese cake using almond meal instead of the usual graham wafer crust. Dr. Bernstein advocates banning fruit as well because of the fructose, but I do eat small amounts of berries as they are low in carbs.

Many of my friends are astounded at the amount of fat I eat - about 70% of my caloric intake is from fats, including saturated fat. I go through between 2 and 3 liters of whipping cream every week, and after 10 years of this, I weigh about 125 pounds. I just had my cholestrol checked last week and it's excellent - better than when I started this diet. Dr. Bernstein believes it is carbohydrates, not dietery fat, that makes us gain weight and drives up our cholesterol, and my experience certainly supports that idea.


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## steve41

The biggest screw-up ever perpetrated on the western diet was the 'saturated fat causes heart disease' scam. The medical/dietary profession have a lot to answer for.


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## ddkay

I've tried switching to a low/no carb diet before but it's very difficult to stick to, it was like going on a hunger strike. There's a decent explanation of how we get fat on this infographic someone made just a few weeks ago: http://i.imgur.com/Odwx8.jpg


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## MoneyGal

If it's like going on a hunger strike, you aren't eating enough fat and protein. You can't just reduce carbs without adding more from the other macronutrient groups.


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## Karen

I can't help but wonder why the nutritionists and dieticians who continue to advocate a low-fat diet don't seem to notice that the less fat people eat, the more the incidence of obesity, diabetes, and heart attacks increases.

For a really good discussion of this topic, read Gary Taubes' book "Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It" or Google his article from the New York Times called "What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?"


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## steve41

The thing I notice is that if I avoid carbs (cereal, OJ, toast...etc) just have bacon & eggs for breakfast, I almost forget about lunch. Of course, there's my Happy Hour (wine) and ice cream after dinner. That's when I fall off the lo-carb wagon.


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## carverman

Karen said:


> I bake with almond meal or coconut meal and make a delicious cheese cake using almond meal instead of the usual graham wafer crust. Dr. Bernstein advocates banning fruit as well because of the fructose, but I do eat small amounts of berries as they are low in carbs.


My "health nut" friiend has informed me that coconut oil is very good for
you as long as it's organic. To which I replied" but coconuts grow on trees
so why isn't that organic in the way they grow? Oh..if it's not organic,
you can have pesticides or herbicides in the oil..he replies>
Ok then! 

[/quote]
Many of my friends are astounded at the amount of fat I eat - about 70% of my caloric intake is from fats, including saturated fat. I go through between 2 and 3 liters of whipping cream every week, and after 10 years of this, I weigh about 125 pounds. I just had my cholestrol checked last week and it's excellent - better than when I started this diet. Dr. Bernstein believes it is carbohydrates, not dietery fat, that makes us gain weight and drives up our carbohydrates, and my experience certainly supports that idea.[/QUOTE]

Thats a LOT of whipping cream..but it all depends on your metabolism and
what ails you. In my case my blood acid level is very high..so I got to
eat more akaline based foods and stay away from acid foods and alcohol
of any type as well as fried foods.


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## jcgd

Lacking in carbs, protein or fats will all make you feel bad. I find a ratio of 40%, 40%, 20% makes me feel pretty balanced. But then it's all where you get your nutrients.

Deep fried is bad fat. Nuts, fish, meat, etc., are good fats. Avoid trans fats like the plague. Fats keep you sane.
Protein is protein for the most part. Makes you feel full.
Carbs are tricky. Fruit is along the lines of sugar, such as oranges. Whole wheat, grains, rice, whole grains, etc. are the way to go for carbs.

A sure fire way to gain lots of weight is to go on an extreme low carb diet, and after a few months of wanting to kill everything in your path, and no energy, most people will binge and gain more than they lost.


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## Karen

I agree with only one thing you've said, jcgd, and that is that trans fats should be avoided. The rest of your comments are your opinion only, and are not substantiated by facts.

For example, it is absolutely untrue that an extremely low-carb diet will cause you to gain weight. I lost over 30 pounds within three months of starting my low-carb diet, and I have kept it off for ten years with no effort whatsoever. Whether you think a low-carb diet is good for us or not, nobody who has read the studies denies that restricting carbs is the easiest way to lose weight. About two years ago, even the American Diabetic Association changed their tune and announced a change to their guidelines; they now approve carb restriction as an effective way to lose weight.

My endocrinologist was absolutely delighted the first time I saw him. He asked how I managed to keep my blood sugars normal with no insulin and no medications. I told him about my diet and he made two very supportive comments. He said: (1) "Any doctor who doesn't know that this is the way all diabetics should be eating has their head buried in the sand." and (2) "If every diabetic ate the way you do, it would go a long way toward resolving the financial crisis in the Canadian medical system.

You are also wrong in claiming that a low-carb diet will cause us to lack energy and to "want to kill everything in [our] path." As I stated in my last post, I feel so much better in countless ways since I've been eating this way. Most of us have become accustomed to getting our energy from carbohydrates, but our bodies can adjust very quickly to getting our energy from fats. I believe that people who don't adjust well to a low-carb diet or can't stay on it, are not eating enough fat. I think it was Steve who said in an earlier post that if he has a low-carb, high-fat breakfast, he doesn't feel hungry for many hours, and that is typical. That happens because carbs digest very quickly, leaving our bodies craving more food, while fats slow down the digestive system. 

I'm not suggesting that non-diabetics have to go to the extremes that I do in restricting carbs (I stay under 40 grams of carbs a day), but I think it's fair to say that most people would feel better and live healthier lives if they cut way back on them. The worst possible way to eat is to combine a high fat and a high carb diet. That is what will make you obese, raise your cholesterol, and probably lead to a heart attack, to say nothing of making you want to "kill everthing in your path."


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## Berubeland

I'm hungry now.


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## carverman

Berubeland said:


> I'm hungry now.


I'm hitting the fridge....lets see it's 1am...broccoli (high akaline food)..naw!
I've been eating broccoli for the last 3 days...I want to scream!..ah yes!..
I scream. (no natural born cereal killer instinct..yet )..ice scream.....yes!


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## Karen

> (no natural born cereal killer instinct..yet!


  



> ...ice scream.....yes


I made my own ice cream using artificial sweetener and whipping cream instead of milk - you'd like it a lot better than what's in your fridge!


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## carverman

Karen said:


> I made my own ice cream using artificial sweetener and whipping cream instead of milk - you'd like it a lot better than what's in your fridge!


Yes, I have the similuated icecream product called Nestle Parlour. 

here's what's in it in order of quantity:
modified milk product (why do you need to modify milk?)
sugar (now bad for you)
milk ingredients (the other part of the modified milk?)
butterscotch ripple (I will assume the butterscotch flavoured gum here)
water, glucose-fructose, brown sugar, hydrogenated soy bean oil, salt,
pectin, *carmel colour*, potassium sorbate, citric acid, glucose,
coconut oil, mono and di-glycierides, propylene glycol, monosterate,
cellulose gum, carob bean gum, carageenan, a*rtificial flavour,colour* 
and may contain peanuts, tree nuts, 
...and maybe any rats that have
fallen into the ice cream vat, cockroaches/and or crickets added for flavour.

Nutrition facts: (per 1/2cup / 125ml serving)
Calories : 120
Fat Saturated and trans fats 15%
Cholesterol 20mg
Sodium: 65mg (3%)
Carbohydrates: 7%
Sugars: 16g
Protein 1g
vitamins or minerals 0% 

*And on the lid they advertise;*
Source of calcium
No artificial colours 

Manufactured under license (North York) from Nestle USA.

Not only is there very little dairy product in this chemical concoction..
but they don't even read their own ingredients listed in fine print
artificial flavour, colour....uh huh!


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## Beaver101

> .And on the lid they advertise;
> Source of calcium
> *No artificial colours *
> Manufactured under license (North York) from Nestle USA.
> 
> *Not only is there very little dairy product in this chemical concoction..*but they don't even read their own ingredients listed in fine print
> artificial flavour, colour....uh huh!


 ... oh no, better check the 2 unopened tubs called Heavenly Hash and Maple Walnut in my freezer ... how can one possibly go wrong with these flavours of ice-cream and take the time to read the microscopic fine prints?


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## Plugging Along

Karen said:


> I made my own ice cream using artificial sweetener and whipping cream instead of milk - you'd like it a lot better than what's in your fridge!


Would you be able to either post or pm the recipe to me. I have been changing my lifestyle and diet too because I am at a high risk for diabetes.


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## carverman

MoneyGal said:


> If it's like going on a hunger strike, you aren't eating enough fat and protein. You can't just reduce carbs without adding more from the other macronutrient groups.


But that's the main reason for going on these fad diets M.G. ..you just reduce
everything and live off wheat grass slurry..mmmmm..in a few days you
will be as grouchy as Wiaraton Willie when he was yanked out of his hole
to prognosticate ..early spring? He should have just told them ,.."all right
ya rotters!..disturb my sleep will ya! well it's 12 more weeks of winter for
you then!

You can't just switch from a normal diet to one of these fad diets and expect
that your body will adjust..it takes time for everything to balance out.


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## carverman

Beaver101 said:


> ... oh no, better check the 2 unopened tubs called Heavenly Hash and Maple Walnut in my freezer ... how can one possibly go wrong with these flavours of ice-cream and take the time to read the microscopic fine prints?


Exactly. That is why the ingredients ARE listed in microscopic print. They
expect that the eye catching packaging will do the job and nobody reaching
into the ice cream freezer is going to stop to read all the ingredients that
are probalby not good for you...but then who cares...until some research
doctor/scientists decides that ice cream is bad for you because some trained
monkeys who ate it 24/7 ended up weighing twice as much as they would
normally eating bananas.


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## Karen

Plugging Along said:


> Would you be able to either post or pm the recipe to me. I have been changing my lifestyle and diet too because I am at a high risk for diabetes.


I'd be glad to do that, PA. It might take me a couple of days, but I'll do it for sure.


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## Plugging Along

No rush at all. I have an ice cream maer and have been looking or better alternatives. I won't be making ice cream for a weeks until I get better. I'm supposed to be on bed rest.


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## zylon

*a happy camper*

Snip:


> Not only did going wheat-free alleviate a chronic discomfort, it has allowed me to re-pursue my avocation with renewed vigor. I am an opera singer in my spare and sometimes not-so-spare time. Both the fear and the real effect of reflux on my vocal chords often wreaked havoc on my physical and mental preparation for concerts and shows. I am thrilled to say that both the fear of reflux and the reflux itself are gone. I recently performed a Bach cantata while wheat-free and there was no trace of reflux before, during or after the show. For me, that was remarkable.
> http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/02/opera-tenor-does-wheat-belly/


Note to *Karen:* As the topic of this thread is quite new to me, first heard about it about two months ago, I'm very impressed with your knowledge. Thanks for your contribution to this thread! 

And thanks to *Admin* for providing a place for these "off topic" topics on this "_respectable money forum_".


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## RoR

I was on Dr Sears "The Zone" a couple years back and loved it. Off it now, it's just too easy to grab a bagel in the morning with kids and work. I should look into it again. 

Someone posted the 40/40/20 and it works, I felt so much better. More energy, slept better, etc. 

I skimmed and didn't see any mention of the differences in carbs - vegetables are carbs. So the 40% carbs should be coming from vegetables, we're not talking rice/pasta/bread. Cutting out rice/pasta/bread down to 1/2 a slice of bread a day a few years back I lost a pound a week with no exercise and I wasn't hungry. Replaced it with double servings of veggies and more nuts.


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## RoR

_glucose-fructose, brown sugar, hydrogenated soy bean oil, salt,
pectin, carmel colour, potassium sorbate, citric acid, glucose,
coconut oil, mono and di-glycierides, propylene glycol, monosterate,
cellulose gum, carob bean gum, carageenan, artificial flavour,colour _

And over half of this is made from corn - anyone watch King Corn? I always thought citric acid = oranges. Nope, it's from corn. 

Natural colour is also often bugs. Which I don't really have a problem with, I eat cows. So why not a few squished bugs for colour.


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## carverman

RoR said:


> _
> And over half of this is made from corn - anyone watch King Corn? I always thought *citric acid = oranges.* Nope, it's from corn. _


_

While oranges have citric acid, the guide I have now for eating foods that are alkaline in nature..oranges are one of these alkaline foods..go figure!

I'm taking the litmus test now..with high acidity in my system.

The website www.DontDieEarly.com has a guide on what foods are acid and which ones are akaline.
citrus, tangerines, raspberries amongst other fruits and veggies on the list are akaline forming foods. 
Table salt(sodium-chloride) is the highest alkaline forming chemical compound..but it cause other problems
like high blood pressure.

My health nut friend suggested to stop eating glutien because it's bad for the brain. So he brought over
some glutien free bread (rice bread) and some glutein free organic cereal..stuff tasted like "cr*p", so
I chucked it in the green bin and went back to my enriched white bread and sugar in my coffee.
I guess, I'm an addict when it comes to those things. 




Natural colour is also often bugs. Which I don't really have a problem with, I eat cows. So why not a few squished bugs for colour.

Click to expand...

A lot of animals eat bugs..chickens for example and fish eat bugs and as we may know wild trout taste delicious because they eat mostly bugs._


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## carverman

zylon said:


> Snip:
> 
> And thanks to *Admin* for providing a place for these "off topic" topics on this "_*respectable money forum*_".


We all think of ourselves as "respectable" here, because everyone likes to  be respected.


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## RoR

carverman said:


> Table salt(sodium-chloride) is the highest alkaline forming chemical compound..but it cause other problems like high blood pressure.


But does it? Or is it the North American studies that point to high salt = high blood pressure. Cause the Japanese eat a lot of high salt foods and don't have high blood pressure. 

So perhaps when food science measures high blood pressure and attribute it to salt, they're neglecting to mention that the salt is in the burgers and fries and processed foods (that need salt as a preservative) people are eating.


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## the-royal-mail

There is clearly way too much sodium in our diets. It is very difficult for the average person today to escape this. It's in absolutely everything, including beans, soup, bread, oatmeal and yes processed and fast foods. I've reduced some of my salt intake by not consuming white bread, pizza, fast food, chips and other junk food but when a can of beans (a staple item for many recipes) has over 60% of a person's intake of salt, you realize this isn't an easy thing to escape.

I believe the gov't in Europe a few years ago mandated food mfrs to reduce the sodium on a gradual basis. Great idea and I hope we do that here as well. There is way too much salt in our food.

And yes, too much salt is a significant contributor to high blood pressure.


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## steve41

Here is a good article which refutes the salt hysteria....

Political science of salt


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## Beaver101

> There is clearly way too much sodium in our diets. ..


 .... plus sugar and that's why diabetes 2 is close to an epidemic in this country. 



> *It is very difficult for the average person today to escape this*.


 ... agreed. The constant marketing bombardments and convenience of fast food outlets for city slickers are adding to the rise this unhealthy eating problem. And no, a fat tax won't help either.


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## RoR

the-royal-mail said:


> It's in absolutely everything, including *beans, soup, bread, oatmeal *and yes processed and fast foods. *I've reduced some of my salt intake by not consuming white bread, pizza, fast food, chips *and other junk food but when a can of beans (a staple item for many recipes) has over 60% of a person's intake of salt, you realize this isn't an easy thing to escape.
> 
> I believe the gov't in Europe a few years ago mandated food mfrs to reduce the sodium on a gradual basis. Great idea and I hope we do that here as well. There is way too much salt in our food.
> 
> And yes, too much salt is a significant contributor to high blood pressure.


Disagree. It's not in everything, it's in processed food. It's not in green peppers, tomatoes, apples, chicken, etc. Everything you listed is processed, and a can of beans is not a staple food. Dried beans sure, but a can of beans is processed food (lined with BPA to keep the can taste off your food!). Bread is also a processed food unless you're getting it from a local bakery or it comes out of your breadmaker. If you eat healthy food and add salt all the salt you want to it, your blood pressure will be fine. 

If you live off processed food and try to blame the salt for poor health. Well...I can't think of a good comparison. But the salt isn't the problem.


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## humble_pie

lol it was carverman who recently said - in a nearby thread - that "this is a respectable money forum." I thought this was funny, at least for a little while.

on wheat: it often has to be removed from infants' food because they don't tolerate it well. It's a standard suspect when infants have digestive/skin probs.

for all age folks, my nutrition prof used to say that the culprits are modern hybridized wheats. These have only been around for just over 100 years. Mankind hasn't had millenia to adapt to them.

prof thought that ancient unaltered grains like quinoa, amaranth, spelt, etc are better tolerated by **** sapiens.

and a plea to karen :

won't you please be kind enough to post the ice cream recipe, no doubt many would be happy to see.

also any details on ground almonds as the crumb crust for a cheesecake. Not to speak of the cheesecake recipe itself.

i have issues with the freshness & quality of bought ground almonds so i used to grind my own from fresh organic almonds, along with some organic flax seeds. That was until the motor of the appliance died from the stress. I have yet to buy an electric grinder that will be up to the job.

btw do you know a plant sweetener called stevia. It's many hundreds of times sweeter than sugar. Just a trace, like 1/200th of a teaspoon, is enuf for a cup of coffee. It does have a sweet taste, but remarkably distinct from sugar itself.

in the spring i often buy a live stevia plant from growers at the big farmers' market. They do well as outdoor annual plants. Their small green leaves are, well, sweet to taste !


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## MoneyGal

I have a VitaMix blender that will pulverize nuts, and I use it to make almond flour.


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## zylon

*52 minute audio and recipes*

I started learning about being wheat-free when I heard this conversation between Kim Greenhouse and Dr Davis:
http://itsrainmakingtime.com/2011/williamdavis/

The audio is 52 minutes; I listened to it again last night ... that makes three times. There is just so much information packed in there that I won't even attempt to do a summary. It's well worth the listen for anyone who has any sort of “mystery” ailment.

I'm almost “wheat-free” since before Christmas, although I do cheat with the occasional burger or toast when I eat out. It wouldn't kill me to lose 10 or 15 pounds, but that's not my first motive for eliminating wheat. The biggest benefit for me is that without wheat, hunger and cravings for pastry have all but disappeared. There's a huge difference between being hungry because I haven't eaten for 5 or 6 hours, and the wheat induced gnawing hunger that one gets even though the last meal hasn't even been digested.

Some wheat-free recipes here:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/recipes/


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## carverman

RoR said:


> But does it? Or is it the North American studies that point to high salt = high blood pressure. Cause the Japanese eat a lot of high salt foods and don't have high blood pressure.


Ah, but sea salt is an akaline substance too..and the Japanese eat a lot of sea food. 
I'm drinking PI water which has a slightly alkaline PH to it.
This is froms a special filter by Nikken (Japanese company) that takes ordinary tap water (very bad for you with all the chemicals in it + dissolved drugs flushed down toilets that end up in sewage treatment and the treated sewage is released back into the rivers and lakes..and the sewage/water treatment doesn't get rid of most dissolved drugs..so fish are mutating because of the high hormone content in the water from birth control. 



> So perhaps when food science measures high blood pressure and attribute it to salt, they're neglecting to mention that the salt is in the burgers and fries and processed foods (that need salt as a preservative) people are eating.


Fast foods/fried foods lead to obesity and other health problems and that
is becoming an epidemic in NA because of our eating habits.


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## carverman

humble_pie said:


> lol it was carverman who recently said - in a nearby thread - that "this is a respectable money forum." I thought this was funny, at least for a little while.


well it was until you joined in.  Besides that was a typo..I meant
"respectable life form" of online entities that come from all walks of life



> on wheat: it often has to be removed from infants' food because they don't tolerate it well. It's a standard suspect when infants have digestive/skin probs. [/qute]
> which is another issue entirely..why do a lot of children seem to have
> food allergies these days?
> 
> for all age folks, my nutrition prof used to say that the culprits are modern hybridized wheats. These have only been around for just over 100 years. Mankind hasn't had millenia to adapt to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> prof thought that ancient unaltered grains like quinoa, amaranth, spelt, etc are better tolerated by **** sapiens.
> 
> 
> 
> Quinoa is a lowest alkaline forming food on my chart..but it's not always
> easy to find.
Click to expand...

i have issues with the freshness & quality of bought ground almonds so i used to grind my own from fresh organic almonds, along with some organic flax seeds. That was until the motor of the appliance died from the stress. I have yet to buy an electric grinder that will be up to the job. [/quote]

Why organic..almonds are tree nuts. I just buy them in bulk at Costco. 
Almonds are very good for you as they are low alkaline forming foods
and you need to keep your PH around 7.0 or even higher if possible.

[/quote]
in the spring i often buy a live stevia plant from growers at the big farmers' market. They do well as outdoor annual plants. Their small green leaves are, well, sweet to taste ![/QUOTE]

I"ve heard of it..but never tried it..how do you sweeten the coffee with
it?


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## carverman

steve41 said:


> Here is a good article which refutes the salt hysteria....
> 
> Political science of salt


It's been a controversy for as long as I can remember.

I'ts a detailed and expansive article and from what I've extracted from it..
there is no clear answer that salt in your diet leads to high blood pressure
according to this article.

paraphrasing one of the numerous paragraphs..

"The results were as ambiguous as anything else in the salt dispute. 
Doing the trials correctly proved to be surprisingly difficult. Choosing a low salt diet for instance inevitably leads to changing other nutrients as well, such as potassium, fiber and calories.
If you just study people for 10 weeks you will always detect some changes
over time which have nothing to do with the experiment you are carrying out."


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## andrewf

I moderate my salt intake because I find most prepared foods too salty for my taste. It is relatively easy to train your palate to like reduced salt in foods.


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## Beaver101

Unfortunately this does not work well for folks who take alot of medications (daily maintenance) ... they often find already-salty foods to be bland and tasteless and therefore, needs to add more flavourings (eg HP sauce) to make the meal more palatable. Vicious circle here.


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## jcgd

andrewf said:


> I moderate my salt intake because I find most prepared foods too salty for my taste. It is relatively easy to train your palate to like reduced salt in foods.


YES! You are so right. I have a thing for regular ruffles with dip but I find the regular type much to salty so I always get the reduced salt kind. It bothers me so much that if they are sold out of reduced salt chips I don't even bother with regularly salted chips. 

I love my fast food, but I have to ask for no salt at Mc.D's. Plus I hate limp fries so I trick them into made-for-order freshness (if you can call Mc.D's fresh).

Also, I bought a bag of salted peanuts at work the other day (not many options) and they were so salty I didn't really enjoy them. What's wrong with plain ol roasted nuts?


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## andrewf

I also never salt water for pasta, almost never add salt to things like soups or stews (usually the ingredients have enough salt). Occassionally I accidentially buy a different brand of canned tomatoes without checking the salt. I made a chili that I almost didn't want to eat because it was so salty. I went back to the store and bought a can of PC Blue Menu No Salt Added tomatoes to try and fix it.


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## carverman

andrewf said:


> Occassionally I accidentially buy a different brand of canned tomatoes without checking the salt. I made a chili that I almost didn't want to eat because it was so salty. I went back to the store and bought a can of PC Blue Menu No Salt Added tomatoes to try and fix it.


There is no reason to salt canned tomatoes or tomatoe juice..the fruit (veggie?)
is acidic enough that it will preserve well in cans or glass jars.

Market Place last week did an expose on processed foods..even with reduced
salt advertised (ie: Campbells Soups) the sodium content was barely reduced.
Truth in Advertising is what we need now.


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## carverman

jcgd said:


> Y
> Also, I bought a bag of salted peanuts at work the other day (not many options) and they were so salty I didn't really enjoy them. What's wrong with plain ol roasted nuts?


You need to find unsalted nuts. Loblaws sell them for baking and there is no HST charged on them.

If you buy salted (Planters or other brands such as Beaver) they put WAY too much salt in those,
and because these are now considered "snack foods", you pay 13% Hst (if you live in Ontario) for the privledge of
eating salt. 

Peanuts are high acid forming foods and contribute to high acidity in blood, but generally they have good benefits and by themselves are considered health foods, like almonds. I used to eat a lot of peanuts, but now changed to raw almonds (shelled) that I buy in the big kilo bags at Costco. These are excellent.


----------



## Karen

Here's the cheesecake recipe that humble_pie asked me to post:

KAREN'S FAVOURITE CHEESECAKE 

Base: 
1 1/2 to 2 c. ground almonds (I use 2 cups)
1/4 c. melted butter (more if you use 2 c. almonds) 
sweetener (optional - I don't use it)
Mix well and pat into the bottom of a 9" or 10" springform pan. Bake for just a few minutes (maybe 5 or 6) at 350 F just until it starts to turn a golden brown.

Filling: 
Using a food processor or an electric beater, mix: 
2 eggs 
2 tsp. vanilla 
1 1/2 c. sour cream 
1/2 c. granular Splenda (or the equivalent sweetness in yur choice of a sugar-free sweetener; see my note below*) 

Blend until combined and slowly add: 

16 oz. cream cheese, softened in the microwave
2 Tbs. melted butter

OPTIONAL: cocoa, lemon juice, or whatever else you like (I prefer it plain served with berries and whipped cream.)

Pour over base and bake in a preheated 325-degree oven for 35 to 40 minutes. Place a pan filled with water on the bottom shelf of the oven to keep the heat moist and to prevent the top from cracking. The cheesecake won't look quite done, but it firms up as it cools.

* I use a liquid form of Splenda called Sweetzfree which I have to order online. (Google it.) It seems expensive but it really isn't because it's so concentrated that a 4 oz bottle lasts me a little over a year. The reason I prefer this product to the more easily found granular or powdered form of Splenda is that it is completely sugar-free. Powdered/granular Splenda contains maltodextrine (another form of sugar) and adds 24 grams of carbs per cup to your recipe. That probably isn't important to non-diabetics but when you're sticking to a maximum of 35 to 40 grams of carbs per day, as I do, it's significant.

Regarding stevia, it comes in both powdered and liquid forms, so it's easy to use, but I don't care for it; I find it quite bitter. Some people on my low-carb forum tell me it's because I use too much and they may be right, but I stick to my liquid Splenda.

I can buy almond meal (ground almonds) locally, but it's terribly expensive so I order it on line from Bob's Red Mill and even after paying for shipping it's less costly that way. I order 25 pounds at a time, and put some in the freezer. I've never had a problem with freshness.

Carverman, I agree that most fast foods are bad for us, but I don't believe it's because they're fried; it's because they are high in carbohydrates. In most cases, they're high in fat and carbs, which is a lethal combination. I occasionally order a hamburger without a bun. Some places just serve it on a plate with the condiments on the side; others wrap it in a large romaine lettuce leaf. If you're eating gluten free, be sure to remember to ask whether the hamburger patties have bread crumbs in them.

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned sugar as being the culprit, and that's true provided you realize that sugar doesn't just mean table sugar - all carbohydrates turn to glucose in our bloodstream. How many people realize that one medium-sized baking potato contains the equivalent of 4 tablespoons of sugar?

I fully admit to my obsession on this subject, and I acknowledge that, as a diabetic whose goal is to keep my blood glucose levels perfectly normal without medications, I go to much greater extremes than most of you would have to in order to remain healthy.

And now I must go and find my low-carb ice cream recipe! 

Added later: Zylon, thank you for posting the link to the chocolate cheesecake recipe. It sounds delicious, and there are several other wonderful-sounding recipes there as well.


----------



## carverman

Karen said:


> Here's the cheesecake recipe that humble_pie asked me to post:
> KAREN'S FAVOURITE CHEESECAKE


Yumm! I love cheescake...must try your recipe, Karen.

I once found a recipe in one of those women's mags that I read at the hospital.
It was using orange jello-lite and low fat Philadelphia cream cheese.
It was very good tasting and had a nice orangy tang to it. I must make it
again this summer.


----------



## carverman

Here are the nutritional packing facts about peanuts and almonds.

Costco (Kirlkland brand) California whole almonds (1.36kg package) :
Per 1/3 cup (45g) or about 2 oz)
Calories: 290
Fat (saturated + trans) 38%
Cholesterol: 0%
Sodium: 0% 
Potassium: 10%
Carbohydrates: 3%
Fiber: 24%
Protein: 11g 
Calcium: 10%
Iron: 15%


Costco Kirkland brand Roasted/salted Peanuts 907g container
Per 1/3 cup (45g) (2 oz)
Calories: 160
Fat: (sat + trans) 22%
Cholesterol: 0%
Sodium: 110mg (5%
Carbohydrates: 2%
Fiber: 8%
Sugars: 1g 
Protein: 7g 
Calcium: 2%
Iron: 2%

Now which one of these nuts are better for you?


----------



## RoR

Clearly the almonds.


----------



## andrewf

My understanding is that peanuts are high in saturated fats, whereas almonds have more unsaturated fats. I actually prefer the taste of fresh (ie, not stale and squishy) dry roasted almonds/no salt. I used to be able to get these amazing almonds at No Frills that were crunchy like they had just be roasted (I guess they had better packaging than most)--it made a huge difference.


----------



## Karen

Here's my low-carb homemade ice cream recipe, as requested by PA and humble_pie:

A couple of things to note before you start:

(1) This doesn't keep in the freezer as commercial ice cream does - it will turn to ice. But that's okay - it's a good excuse to eat it all at one sitting. It makes three large servings or four smaller ones.

2) I keep my ice cream maker in the freezer all the time, so it's sure to be cold enough whenever you want to make ice cream


VANILLA ICE CREAM

1 1/2 cups heavy cream (whipping cream)
1 cup water
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
liquid sweetener equivalent to a cup of sugar - I use 24 drops of Sweetzfree.
4 egg yolks, beaten
1/4 teaspoon salt

Carefully heat in the microwave 1 cup of the cream, with the sweetener, vanilla and salt, until it is quite hot but not boiling. Add the hot cream mixture a bit at a time to the beaten egg yolks, beating or whisking each time. When it is all combined, put it back in the microwave and heat it until it thickens a bit and coats the back of a spoon. Again, don't boil it or even heat it too much...it will curdle. I think the object of this heating is just to avoid eating raw eggs, not to do with turning the mix into custard.

When you have done this microwaving, stir in the remaining cup of cream and the cup of water. Refrigerate, covered, for 2 hours or longer. Then pour it into your ice cream maker and proceed according to its directions.


----------



## humble_pie

oh wow, it's gold mine bonanza time in the ok kitchen ! Karen thank you so much for your trouble. 

i might post copies of these excellent recipes up in the recipes thread when i have time. Here they risk to slip away out of sight with time, while copies in the recipe thread have a better chance of surviving because it's a sticky.

i'll also study the recipes later in detail, so i understand everything you're doing. That tip about purchasing a big sack of almond flour most gratefully received.

speaking of tips zylon has posted a link to a fascinating interview with an MD about wheat. Link is just upthread. I was reminded of my lovely nutrition prof while listening. She also had a keen interest in contemporary research studying new proteins, enzymes & eicosonoids in foods that can trigger the cascades, often of hormones, in humans which start the abnormal processes that ignite the diseases that inflame the tissues that destroy the house that jack built.

but the difference was that my prof did everything in such a loving way. It's hard to be a radical prophet in the desert, speaking out against the Big Ag Big Pharma complex without developing that strident, accusing tone of voice which the host lady displays in this interview. But my prof was ever-gracious, loving & wise, as shakespeare once famously wrote about cordelia. In fact i took her courses for a 2nd entire year just because she was so wonderful.


----------



## steve41

Karen said:


> Here's my low-carb homemade ice cream recipe, as requested by PA and humble_pie:
> 
> A couple of things to note before you start:
> 
> (1) This doesn't keep in the freezer as commercial ice cream does - it will turn to ice. But that's okay - it's a good excuse to eat it all at one sitting. It makes three large servings or four smaller ones.
> 
> 2) I keep my ice cream maker in the freezer all the time, so it's sure to be cold enough whenever you want to make ice cream
> 
> 
> VANILLA ICE CREAM
> 
> 1 1/2 cups heavy cream (whipping cream)
> 1 cup water
> 2 teaspoons vanilla extract
> liquid sweetener equivalent to a cup of sugar - I use 24 drops of Sweetzfree.
> 4 egg yolks, beaten
> 1/4 teaspoon salt
> 
> Carefully heat in the microwave 1 cup of the cream, with the sweetener, vanilla and salt, until it is quite hot but not boiling. Add the hot cream mixture a bit at a time to the beaten egg yolks, beating or whisking each time. When it is all combined, put it back in the microwave and heat it until it thickens a bit and coats the back of a spoon. Again, don't boil it or even heat it too much...it will curdle. I think the object of this heating is just to avoid eating raw eggs, not to do with turning the mix into custard.
> 
> When you have done this microwaving, stir in the remaining cup of cream and the cup of water. Refrigerate, covered, for 2 hours or longer. Then pour it into your ice cream maker and proceed according to its directions.


Sheesh. Why not just buy 'no sugar added' ice creme?


----------



## humble_pie

steve i think the idea is to make wholesome food from scratch & avoid that long list of chemical ingredients which carverman posted upthread.

ubiquitous propylene glycol was in his ice cream, carve said, plus long list of other chemicals certainly not coming from organic cows or their cream. Prop glycol is windshield washing fluid ...


----------



## Karen

> Sheesh. Why not just buy 'no sugar added' ice creme?


Partly because, as humble_pie suggested, commercial product is still full of chemicals with unpronouncable names - that's why it doesn't freeze solid in the freezer, as the homemade kind does. The other reason, for me as a diabetic on a low-carb diet, the sugar-free ice cream available in grocery stores is not the same as carbohydrate free. I haven't looked at it for years, but if I recall correctly, one serving of commercial sugar-free ice cream contains 8 grams of carbs. That's 2/3 of the number of carbs I allow myself for my whole meal. And, most important of all, the homemade kind tastes SOOOO GOOD!


----------



## carverman

humble_pie said:


> She also had a keen interest in contemporary research studying new proteins, *enzymes & eicosonoids in foods that can trigger the cascades, often of hormones, in humans which start the abnormal processes that ignite the diseases that inflame the tissues that destroy the house that jack built.*


I wish it was that simple..but it's not. Environment, chemicals, genetics..and much more play a bigger part.



> *but the difference was that my prof did everything in such a loving way*. It's hard to be a radical prophet in the desert, speaking out against the Big Ag Big Pharma complex without developing that strident, accusing tone of voice which the host lady displays in this interview. But my prof was ever-gracious, loving & wise, as shakespeare once famously wrote about cordelia. * In fact i took her courses for a 2nd entire year just because she was so wonderful.*


Ack!...I think I'm going to be sick..all this affection bestowed on a teacher
with one person's opinion..and self praise......


----------



## humble_pie

carver so sorry you are feeling spiteful & jealous because nobody is going to write about you in the same affectionate way ...


----------



## Plugging Along

Karen - thank you very much... it sounds delicious. I am wondering if you have ever made substitutes with Splenda (the powder form) and with lower fat alternatives such as evaporated milk? 


Steve - Don't get me wrong, I do most of my stuff with store bought, but there is a big difference between store bought and homemade in most things. The homemade tends to use higher quality ingredients, and there is much more control in terms of sugar, fat, salt, carbs, or whatever else you're trying to control. There is also no chemicals in the homemade version.


----------



## carverman

humble_pie said:


> carver so sorry you are feeling spiteful & jealous because nobody is going to write about you in the same affectionate way ...


I'm not spiteful..well..let's say, I'm disappointed that my brief existance on this earth will not be what some people call earth shaking...I'm not a devil and I'm sure I'm not an angel (well at least not yet ...hey there's a song about that..called..

and since i's only 4 days to Valentines day this is my Valentine to you. 

Devil or Angel.
==========
Devil or angel, I can't make up my mind
Which one I'd like to wake up and find
Devil or angel ..HP give lend me your ear
I'll whisper sweet nothings..you may want to hear

Devil or angel, HP please say you'll be mi-i-ine
Love me or hate me, I'll go out of my mind
Devil or angel , whichever I may be
Just keep on reading and maybe you'll see


----------



## zylon

*wow - popular book*

Went to the library to see about "_Wheat Belly_" by Dr Davis.

All print and audio copies are out, and there are 65 hold requests.


----------



## Darisha

Karen said:


> Dr. Bernstein believes it is carbohydrates, not dietery fat, that makes us gain weight and drives up our carbohydrates, and my experience certainly supports that idea.


I agree with this. My mother in law weighs over 350 lb and eats almost nothing but white bread, toasted, with loads of butter and hot cocoa. I's astonishing.


----------



## Karen

Reading Darisha's post above where she quoted from an earlier post of mine, I see that I made a typo when I said "...drives up our carbohydrates." I meant to say it is carbohydrates that drives up our *cholesterol*. I'll go back and correct it in my original post.

Plugging Along: I don't use powdered Splenda because of the extra carbs but that's because of my severe carb restriction to manage my diabetes. For most people where the idea is to restrict carbs, but not to the same extent, I assume it would work fine. I would never, under any cirucmstances, deliberately restrict fat; remember that if you're cutting way down on carbs, you need extra fat to provide energy.

Zylon: Too bad you can't get Dr. Davis' book from the library in a reasonable time. In the meantime, why don't you try "Life Without Bread" by Christian Allan and Wolfgang Lutz. I have several good books on this subject, but many of them are written specifically for diabetics. "Life Without Bread" is more general.


----------



## RedRose

What if you don't have an ice cream maker? Can you just freeze the microwaved stuff?


----------



## Karen

You can't with my recipe, RedRose - it would freeze into a block of ice. I remember my mother making ice cream without an ice cream maker when I was a child, but I have no idea how she did it. I know there's been some discussion on my low-carb diabetes forum about this, so if anyone comes up with a solution, I'll let you know.


----------



## zylon

*Book*

*Karen:* Thanks for the suggestion; I put in a request for “_Life Without Bread_” - there are copies available in the system, but will take a few days to arrive at my library.

I check all Dr Davis's blog entries where he posts a lot of the nitty gritty facts which I'm sure are also in his book. 

ie:


> Although people commonly call many reactions to wheat a “wheat allergy,” most reactions actually represent something else.
> 
> Gastrointestinal distress is more likely, for example, to be due to lectins (wheat germ agglutinin) in wheat that disable the normal capacity to keep foreign substances from gaining entry into the bloodstream. Or it may be due to the gliadins, the same proteins that amp up appetite, cloud your thinking, yield addictive behavior and generate the wheat withdrawal syndrome. Cramps, diarrhea, and acid reflux likely have nothing to do with an allergic response.
> 
> Joint pain likewise is more likely due to gliadin and/or glutens, proteins that have potent capacity to activate inflammation. Joint inflammation is also encouraged by lectins, since the foreign proteins allowed entry into your body may trigger autoimmune responses to joint structures. No allergy here either.
> 
> So is there really such a thing as “wheat allergy”?
> 
> (cont'd)
> 
> http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/02/achooo/


----------



## Plugging Along

Thanks Karen I think I may make some substitutions then with a lower fat alternative and see how it works. I am trying to eat healthy, and cut calories. The area for me to cut is primarily carbs as I am at a high risk for diabetes, but also choosing lower fat alternatives. I may try a few versions and see.



RedRose said:


> What if you don't have an ice cream maker? Can you just freeze the microwaved stuff?


you can make your own ice cream maker. It would be a really frugal way. Essentially it involves two cans, a large coffe can and a small, you add a rock salt ice mixture to the big can, add the ice cream to the small, cover and shake. The exact instructions can be found on the Internet. You need to do it outside.


----------



## brad

Darisha said:


> I agree with this. My mother in law weighs over 350 lb and eats almost nothing but white bread, toasted, with loads of butter and hot cocoa. I's astonishing.


When all is said and done (which may take another 150 years, given how little we actually know about diet and nutrition, and the limitations of epidemiological studies), I wouldn't be surprised if genetics emerges as one of the major players in the equation.

The truth is that many people who've followed low fat/high carb diets have lost weight and kept it off (I've been eating a fairly high-carb low-fat diet since the late 1980s and I still fit into the suit I bought in 1992), just as many people who've followed high fat/low carb diets have lost weight and kept it off. My stepdaughter eats a very high-carb junk food diet (Wonder bread, cookies, poutine, chocolate milk, etc.) and has trouble getting her weight over 85 pounds. My girlfriend eats a lot of carbs and vegetables, very little meat, and has weighed between 90 and 100 pounds for the past 35 years. If she gets sick and doesn't eat for a day or two she gets visibly thinner: she just naturally has a fast metabolism. But unlike many people with fast metabolisms she's not hungry all the time; she eats three meals a day, no snacks. I eat the same food she does but I'm hungry much of the time and I eat several snacks per day. How can you explain that except through genetic differences?

Low carb diets seem to work better for some people, while low-fat diets work better for others. I suspect genetics lies at the root of at least some of these differences. I've read Gary Taubes's books and I've often wondered whether many of the examples he cites to support his conclusions (except for those involving identical twins) could be traced to genetic differences. Maybe some of us are more susceptible to gaining weight from carbohydrates than others. I'm not sure it's a universal trait.

The main thing to watch out for in the diet world is people who claim to know the answers. We are decades away from having a complete understanding of what constitutes a truly healthy diet and what doesn't, and all the factors that cause us to gain or lose weight. In the meantime, I try to follow the general principle of "eat a little of everything, and not too much of anything." And I exercise religiously, mainly because it makes me feel good.


----------



## carverman

Karen said:


> You can't with my recipe, RedRose - it would freeze into a block of ice. I* remember my mother making ice cream without an ice cream maker when I was a child*, but I have no idea how she did it. I know there's been some discussion on my low-carb diabetes forum about this, *so if anyone comes up with a solution*, I'll let you know.


This is where my NASA engineering knowledge comes in handy. (I'm still trying to write my resume..
but eye kant spel gud enuff to snd it to NASA 

Anyho...the "old school" way of making ice cream required a couple of buckets, ice and rock salt. The ice could have been hail scooped up after a hail storm..and rock salt or even table salt (as long as you were not on a low salt diet) was always around in most kitchens.

So now.the method...
In the first bucket you pour the ice cream mixture (eggs, cream, sugar, vanilla and any other flavouring)
In the second larger bucket, you place the first bucket with the above mixture and dump in equal portions of crushed ice and salt. 

Then you rather laboriously stir the mixture until it starts to solidify..similar to the old fashioned butter churns where you poured the sour cream into a bucket or earthen-ware crock..and beat the H out of it with a paddle-stick to
make the butter.

The salt which extracts the heat from the ice cream mixture (exothermic reaction..E=MCsquared (NASA jargon here) etc) supercools the ice cream mixture and as long as you stir intoducing room air into the mixture..you get a somewhat 
ice creamy mixture that you can spoon and eat.

http://www.consumersearch.com/ice-cream-makers/old-fashioned-ice-cream-makers

Carver .. IF-You-Like-My-Explanation-Call-NASA-for-me-please-and-put-in-the-good-word-for-me


----------



## carverman

brad said:


> , I wouldn't be surprised if genetics emerges as one of the major players in the equation.


Genetics, metabolism and age, I would think..and activity too. If you
sit around and watch TV all day..or sit at a desk and don't work off
some of those carbs..the body may start to put on weight.


----------



## carverman

Plugging Along said:


> you can make your own ice cream maker. *It would be a really frugal way.* salt ice mixture to the big can, add the ice cream to Essentially it involves two cans, a large coffe can and a small, you add a rock salt mixture to the small, cover and shake. The exact instructions can be found on the Internet. You need to do it outside.


You forgot to add ice.P.A....to the rock salt and then shake..but unlike James Bond 007..I like my ice cream..stirred and not shaken..but either way it works fine ...as agitation, (is that a NASA expression?)... does the rest.

BTW...I love women who are frugal! XXOO -> P.A.


----------



## humble_pie

another important post from zylon just upthread.

the doctor's comments on allergies are true. My nutrition prof was always saying all this. What people commonly call allergies are actually intolerances. Intolerances that start the cascades of minute reactions in the body that trigger inflammation that etc etc the house that jack built.

i think individuals can easily find their own intolerances. Another common one is milk & dairy products. People descended from protohistoric peoples that kept herds are usually better able to tolerate milk products.

so people can test out just fine in a traditional allergist's office, but they still have significant intolerances that can add up, in time, to a health deficit.

pinpointing the 1970s as the decade in which massive hybridization of wheat caused new proteins to be released through human assimilation is new to me, though. I am going to look into the research behind this, it's so interesting.

my library doesn't even have Wheat Belly or Life Without Bread.


----------



## brad

carverman said:


> Genetics, metabolism and age, I would think..and activity too. If you
> sit around and watch TV all day..or sit at a desk and don't work off
> some of those carbs..the body may start to put on weight.


Carver, for this thread you might want to change your signature to:

"a waist is a terrible thing to mind."

As for inactivity, it's worth noting that my 85-pound stepdaughter is so allergic to exercise that she calls a cab rather than walking 250 meters to the grocery store, and she prides herself on the fact that she never took a single phys ed class in school (one of the reasons why she never graduated, in fact). 

In contrast, I have a brother who has been biking 100 km/day for nearly 10 years (he doesn't own a car) and yet he's nearly 100 pounds overweight.

Genetics and activity certainly play a role, but I think genetics plays a role in the effectiveness of activity in controlling your weight. I think many factors have played a role in the current obesity epidemic, including inactivity due first to cars, then television, and now the Internet. But there's also the huge reduction in fiber and whole grains from our diets, the easy availability of soft drinks and snack food in general, the fallacy of "low fat" prepared foods that are actually highly caloric and high in simple (not complex) carbs, and dozens if not hundreds of other factors.

Still, the fact that not everyone responds to the same diet in the same way makes me suspect that genetics plays a very important role.


----------



## carverman

brad said:


> Carver, for this thread you might want to change your signature to:
> 
> "a waist is a terrible thing to mind."


I like that Brad..I will try to use it in a jovial manner on one of my posts.



> As for inactivity, it's worth noting that my 85-pound stepdaughter is so allergic to exercise that she calls a cab rather than walking 250 meters to the grocery store, and she prides herself on the fact that she never took a single phys ed class in school (one of the reasons why she never graduated, in fact).


Well age is very important in her case, as our metabolism generally starts to slow down along with our endocrine functions changes. 



> In contrast, I have a brother who has been biking 100 km/day for nearly 10 years (he doesn't own a car) and yet he's nearly 100 pounds overweight.


again, exercise is part of the daily regiment..but if other metabolism functions or food intake is more than you need..the body just turns excess weight into fat.
(so you want to stay thin?...it's a fat chance. ) 



> Genetics and activity certainly play a role, but I think genetics plays a role in the effectiveness of activity in controlling your weight. *I think many factors have played a role in the current obesity epidemic, including inactivity due first to cars, then television, and now the Internet. *But there's also the huge reduction in fiber and whole grains from our diets, the easy availability of soft drinks and snack food in general, the fallacy of "low fat" prepared foods that are actually highly caloric and high in simple (not complex) carbs, and dozens if not hundreds of other factors.


Yes, society is evolving..soon we will be just blobs sitting at our chairs typing with special fingers that have evolved to text efficiently...with other limbs atrophying and shrinking away from lack of use. 

At BNR (Bell-Northern Research, where I used to work many years ago..
there was a cartoon of a fully evolved software engineer...
with buggy eyes, tiny legs, a protruding belly and 10 long finger like tentacles with these suction cup ends on them to manipulate a keyboard..


----------



## zylon

*what was gained in quantity was lost in quality*

*humble:* your reference to 1970s got me to reminiscing. As pre 70s kids we used to eat wheat by the handful, as a snack, right off the combine. On windy days the fields were “_amber waves of grain_” with wheat growing four to four and a half feet high. A “bumper” crop would yield about *40 bushels* per acre.

The use of herbicides was minimal; many farmers didn't even have sprayers to do the job. A common “family time” practice was for the entire family to walk the fields, usually after supper in the cool of the evening, pulling weeds by hand. Once the crop had taken proper hold and grown enough to shade the ground, it could usually compete with the smaller weeds quite nicely.

The growing season for wheat, as I recall, was close to four months. Farmers would wait with seeding as long as they dared, starting in late May in order to work under as many weeds as possible in the process of seeding. This meant that the wheat wasn't ready for harvest until late September or early October, by which time it was very likely to meet with early damaging frost. It was quite a rare and lucky farmer who could boast of having a “bumper” crop of #1 wheat not damaged in any way.

Things have changed. Today the common wheat varieties grow to a height of only two and a half feet. In my area in 2011, the yield was *50 to 75 bushels* per acre (non-irrigated dry land).

Practising pre-seeding herbicide application, farmers are able to start seeding grain as soon as the soil is warm enough to facilitate germination of the seed (early May or even late April). Growing season of wheat has shortened from four months to three and a half, and with use of pre-harvest chemical desiccant, the farmer can shorten the time needed for the crop to ripen by another ten days. This means that by the end of August the combines are rolling ... and NO, I wouldn't eat that wheat by the handful.

Anecdote: Prairie school teachers made sure we knew who Seager Wheeler was.

Snip:


> Seager Wheeler (1868-1961) was probably the most famous farmer in the history of the Canadian Prairie Provinces. He was best known as an international prizewinner in wheat competitions and author of numerous publications on progressive farming techniques. Yet he also gained renown as a part-time inventor of farm implements and developer of new grain and horticultural varieties. Collectively, his contribution to the science of farming helped publicize the agricultural potential of the Canadian Prairies in the region's critical formative period.
> 
> http://www.seagerwheelerfarm.org/theman.htm












Seager Wheeler Maple Grove Farm (source)


----------



## steve41

The graph at the top of this list tells a tale.... the lipid hypothesis (cut down on fats) was a complete failure. Death of the lipid hypothesis


----------



## humble_pie

zylon just the most beautiful story & photo i've seen all week. What a nice way to end it & set up for next week with rose bushes flowering beside barns.
I'll definitely look up & learn about seager wheeler. BTW what is that windmill doing, do you think ? did he have an early form of alternate energy ?

i love the story of the family walking out in the cool evening after supper to do the weeding.

where could these stories be published so more folks could have an opportunity to appreciate them ...


----------



## brad

steve41 said:


> The graph at the top of this list tells a tale.... the lipid hypothesis (cut down on fats) was a complete failure. Death of the lipid hypothesis


Not really. What happened was that people sought out packaged foods that were labeled "low fat" and they ate larger quantities of them, in part because low-fat food generally leaves you feeling less satiated, but also because they figured they could eat more because it was low fat. Many of these food items were made of highly processed, refined carbohydrates.

You could probably also draw correlations between that graph and a graph showing the number of fast-food franchises since the 1970s (e.g., McDonald's and Burger King), or the number of soda vending machines. You could also draw correlations between that graph and a graph showing declines in physical activity during the same time. 

The graph doesn't prove anything except that obesity has been rising dramatically since the late 1970s.


----------



## steve41

It was the substitution of carbohydrates for fats that caused the problem, and the fact that carbs drive the body to produce insulin. Insulin, in turn is the primary driver of fat storage. Sloth and gluttony aren't the problem, it is our increased carbohydrate consumption. It isn't calories, it is the type of calories we consume which have caused the obesity epidemic.


----------



## brad

steve41 said:


> Sloth and gluttony aren't the problem, it is our increased carbohydrate consumption. It isn't calories, it is the type of calories we consume which have caused the obesity epidemic.


This is straight from Gary Taubes, and while many people agree that he's on to something it's also clear that "good calories bad calories" is only part of the explanation. The American diet since 1975 has not been a controlled experiment; many factors have varied. For example in 1975 there were about 5,000 McDonald's franchises; by the late 1990s there were more than 23,000 and new ones were being built at the rate of one every five hours. You could just as easily say that the problem is that nobody was really paying attention to the advice of the US FDA or professional dieticians, and in fact the American diet was still high in saturated fat from all those burgers and fries.


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## zylon

*windmills*

*humble:*

these windmills were common all across the Cdn and US prairies, and other parts of the country too. (didn't I see them in Ontario? ... not sure) There are still some in use today.
they could lift water from great depths
situated wherever water could be found; either in the farm yard or out in the pasture supplying water for the livestock
villages and small towns used them so as to save residents the toil of working the pump manually when they needed water
the wheel, made from wooden “sails,” could be transported in sections and assembled on location










A windmill and cows grazing on the rolling hills of the Canadian Prairies.


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## Berubeland

We are all descendants of survivors. Now if you look back a mere hundred years, famine was an annual event certainly in Canada. You had to carefully can and prepare stores for the winter. Thanksgiving was a fall feast where foods that would not keep over the winter were cooked up and eaten. 

In fact my very own grandfather was regarded as the small town's hero because as an expert hunter he had on several occasions gone out in the dead of winter and come back with a deer which was distributed among the neighbours because they had no food. 

Now according to my father who also went hunting with my grandfather, it was a very serious affair. No fires, no food, just tea. Tea was putting the leaves in your mouth and swilling it around with some water. You also got a horse blanket to disguise your scent and keep you from freezing to death. 

In fact the only time my grandfather ever laid a hand on my father was when he got the bright idea not to eat the bread crusts on his sandwiches. Wasting food was a very serious offense.

Now we continually have a surplus of food however we are the product of millions of years of evolution in which famine is a constant threat and leading cause of death. So next time you look at your love handles remember that you are the result of millions of years of evolution...


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## carverman

Berubeland said:


> W
> 
> Now we continually have a surplus of food however we are the product of millions of years of evolution in which famine is a constant threat and leading cause of death. *So next time you look at your love handles remember that you are the result of millions of years of evolution.*..


"B". you are a true sage in a land of non-believers. If wheat (glutein) is so bad for you now..how did we manage (well.. our forefathers) over hundreds of years of growing the wheat, grinding the wheat into flour, baking the bread....

This reminds me of a children's story "Little Red Hen" growing her wheat ..

Story:
One day the Little Red Hen found a Seed. It was a Wheat Seed, but the Little Red Hen was so accustomed to bugs and worms that she supposed this to be some new and perhaps very delicious kind of meat. She bit it gently and found that it resembled a worm in no way whatsoever as to taste although because it was long and slender, a Little Red Hen might easily be fooled by its appearance.
Carrying it about, she made many inquiries as to what it might be. She found it was a Wheat Seed and that, if planted, it would grow up and when ripe it could be made into flour and then into bread.

When she discovered that, she knew it ought to be planted. She was so busy hunting food for herself and her family that, naturally, she thought she ought not to take time to plant it.

So she thought of the Pig--upon whom time must hang heavily , and of the Cat who had nothing to do, and of the great fat Rat with his idle (computer) hours, and she called loudly:

"Who will plant the Seed?"

"Not I," said the pig. "Not I," said the cat...and the Rat said, "Not I."

"Well, then," said the Little Red Hen, "I will."

<and so the story goes..children...when it was time to harvest it and grind it into flour and bake the bread..nobody wanted to do any of the labour..but when it came time to eat the bread..>
...........
Then, the little Red Hen called: "Who will eat the Bread?"

All the animals in the barnyard were watching hungrily and smacking their lips in anticipation,.. T
the Pig said, "I will," the Cat said, "I will," the Rat said, "I will."

But the Little Red Hen said: "No, you won't. I will."..and my little chicks too..and she did.

So the moral of this story is..there are many out there that think differently
but when it comes to eating..we all have a common biological desire to survive.

Carverman's fables.


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## brad

carverman said:


> "B". you are sage in a land of non-believers. If wheat (glutein) is so bad
> for you now..how did we manage (well our forefathers) over hundreds of
> years of growing the wheat, grinding the wheat into flour, baking the bread....


While I'm agnostic on the issue of wheat, here are two counterarguments to what you said:

1. We didn't really "evolve" eating wheat; cultivation of grains is a relatively recent development in the history of our species. Prehistoric people were opportunistic omnivores; they ate meat when they could catch it but also ate a wide variety of other foods. They didn't eat wheat. Not necessarily the most balanced diet or the most healthy; I used to share a house with two of the leading researchers who studied prehistoric diets based on bone collagen, and they both scratched their heads at people who felt we should follow a "paleo" diet. Most of our ancestors died in their 20s and 30s and didn't live long enough to develop things like heart disease, cancer, or many of the diseases associated with nutritional imbalances.

2. I think the argument is that wheat today is not the same as the wheat our grandparents and their grandparents ate; selective breeding has modified it. I don't have any problems digesting wheat, nor does it cause me to gain weight or feel bloated, but I've been experimenting with spelt and other grains and they do leave me feeling "lighter" after a meal.


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## RedRose

Spelt, Gluten-free...at what cost? $$$$s


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## zylon

*hahaha! carverman and Berubeland*

I must send Dr Davis a note and link to this thread to show him what his interview with Kim Greenhouse has wrought.

... wonder if he might chime in a time or two himself?


----------



## brad

RedRose said:


> Spelt, Gluten-free...at what cost? $$$$s


Spelt bread at my local bakery costs $2.50/loaf, same as their whole wheat bread. I made a delicious salad of spelt and roasted beets today for lunch; organic spelt berries typically go for about $1.90 for 500 grams, which will provide a lot of meals.


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## Karen

Quote from Steve:


> It was the substitution of carbohydrates for fats that caused the problem, and the fact that carbs drive the body to produce insulin. Insulin, in turn is the primary driver of fat storage. Sloth and gluttony aren't the problem, it is our increased carbohydrate consumption. It isn't calories, it is the type of calories we consume which have caused the obesity epidemic.


Steve is absolutely correct in saying that carbohydrates are what drive the production of insulin. That is a scientific fact, not an opinion. And insulin is often referred to as "the fat hormone" because the more insulin our bodies produce, the more fat is stored in our cells. That is why poorly-controlled type 2 diabetics with insulin resistance are usually overweight; because their body is resistant to insulin, the pancreas keeps producing more and more insulin in an attempt to lower their blood glucose levels. The more insulin produced, the more weight they gain, and it becomes a vicious circle. (By the way, not all type 2 diabetics are insulin resistant; some simply don't produce enough insulin; that's the reason that not all poorly-controlled diabetics are overweight.)

Quote from Brad:


> You could just as easily say that the problem is that nobody was really paying attention to the advice of the US FDA or professional dieticians, and in fact the American diet was still high in saturated fat from all those burgers and fries.


I get very frustrated when I read studies that supposedly show that fast foods cause obesity because of their high saturated fat content. Are these reearchers so stupid that that they don't recognize that typical fast food diets are also high in carbs? How many people go into MacDonald's and order a hamburger without the bun or refuse fries with their burger? Very few would be my guess. So the typical high fat diet is also high in carbs.


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## brad

Karen said:


> Steve is absolutely correct in saying that carbohydrates are what drive the production of insulin. That is a scientific fact, not an opinion.


Exactly, and it's not disputed. But if the only way to lose weight is to reduce carbs, how can we explain the millions of people who've lost weight and kept it off through low-fat/high carb diets? Or on a smaller scale, how can we explain the carefully controlled studies showing that people can lose weight on a low-fat diet? They typically don't lose as much weight as people on low-carb diets (see comparative studies such as the one at http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0804748), but the fact that they are able to lose weight at all seems to indicate that carbs are not the only factor at play.


----------



## Karen

Brad, at no time did I ever say that carbs are the only factor at play in weight control. I do believe that a low-carb diet is the most effective way to lose weight, but I, too, know people who have lost weight on low-fat diets

I have stressed in several of my posts in this thread that the extreme low-carb diet that I follow is due to my being diabetic, and nothing will change my mind about that applying to all diabetics. My family doctor was scornful of my low-carb diet ten years ago when I first started it, but he has now admitted that I am his only diabetic patient who maintains completely normal blood glucose levels.

I am not by nature a "conspiracy" type of person, but I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that our pharmaceutical companies are behind the low-fat, high carb theory of managing diabetes. I read about 15 years ago that 17 pharmaceutical companies are the main source of funding for the Canadian Diabetes Association. That being the case, is it reasonable to expect the CDA to fund studies that miight show that a low-carb diet would help many diabetics to avoid diabetes medications? I think not.


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## brad

Karen said:


> Brad, at no time did I ever say that carbs are the only factor at play in weight control. I do believe that a low-carb diet is the most effective way to lose weight, but I, too, know people who have lost weight on low-fat diets


I was making my point more for others here who seem to think that carbs are the culprit in the current obesity epidemic; my point is that they are clearly part of the problem but they can't be the only factor at play, otherwise it would be impossible to lose weight on a low-fat/high-carb diet.

There's a lot of evidence that people lose weight more quickly on low-carb diets than other diets; there's less evidence that people on low-carb diets are any more successful at preventing weight regain than those on other diets, and there's still a lot of controversey about how safe and healthy a low-carb diet is over the long run. But there are lots of willing guinea pigs out there who are running the experiment on themselves, and we might see some answers emerge over the next 20-30 years.

Clearly diabetics are a special case and your results are promising; it makes intuitive sense that a low-carb diet would be especially good for diabetics given the insulin relationship. For the rest of us, though, I think the picture is more complex and there's no single smoking gun.


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## Karen

So, following up on your reasoning, does it not make sense that people who have a genetic tendency to develop diabetes might be able to avoid it by reducing the carbohydrates in their diets?


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## carverman

brad said:


> While I'm agnostic on the issue of wheat, here are two counterarguments to what you said:
> 
> 1. We didn't really "evolve" eating wheat; cultivation of grains is a relatively recent development in the history of our species. . Most of our ancestors died in their 20s and 30s and didn't live long enough to develop things like heart disease, cancer, or many of the diseases associated with nutritional imbalances.


Well, where my family comes from (the Ukraine..formerly known as the bread basket of Europe) wheat has been grown for countless generations, along with rye (as in rye bread)..people lived to about the same age as we live now, but diseases were there as well, as they are here.

People there grew their wheat, veggies, baked bread and milked the cow, and lived a happier more simpler farming life. Nobody was aware that gluten-free was the "no thing" back then, and if one could find any bread of any kind
during the soviet era, it was gratefully consumed because one didn't know if there would be any bread the next day. 

The difference, IMO, Brad, is that we are exposed to too many chemicals in our food and too many pesticides/herbicides as well as stress in our lives..travelling back and forth to work in our automobiles, polluting the air that we breathe and so on. This has more effect on our health than all the gluten rich grains combined. 



> 2. I think the argument is that wheat today is not the same as the wheat our grandparents and their grandparents ate; selective breeding has modified it. I don't have any problems digesting wheat, nor does it cause me to gain weight or feel bloated, but I've been experimenting with spelt and other grains and they do leave me feeling "lighter" after a meal.


Wheat as we know it today is genetically modified because of the rust fungus that attacked the original strains brought from Europe by the settllers. The Durham strain as grown successfully today was the result.

<from online sources> 
Stem rust dates back millennia, almost to the time when wheat was first domesticated. It is a fungus that clings to the stalk of the wheat plant, draining it of nutrients that are needed to produce grain. It was brought under control in the 1950s when scientists, led by Norman Borlaug, hit the genetic jackpot. In work that won him the Nobel Peace Prize, Borlaug created hybrid crops with high yields and strong disease resistance and brought bountiful harvests to places where famine visited frequently. <quote> 

Most of the pasta products are derived from Durum wheat.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Bread/FlourTypes.htm

It's funny how the public perception has changed over the years..
white enriched bread -> whole wheat bread-> gluten in bread is bad for you....so if it actually is... what is the answer now? 
BTW.. Buckwheat has no gluten in it. 
http://www.grain-free-gluten-free.com/buckwheat-flour.html


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## carverman

RedRose said:


> Spelt, Gluten-free...at what cost? $$$$s


Rice flour...tried it in gluten free bread..awful! Give me some nice pastrami
on rye anytime!


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## humble_pie

who said anything about gluten. Dr Davis' research is about new proteins such as gliadins that were created only after the wheat hybridizations of the 1970s.

here is zylon's link. It's post No. 36.

http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showpost.php?p=112266&postcount=36


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## brad

Karen said:


> So, following up on your reasoning, does it not make sense that people who have a genetic tendency to develop diabetes might be able to avoid it by reducing the carbohydrates in their diets?


Sure, that makes intuitive sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's right: you'd have to test it in controlled studies to find out. The history of science is chock-full of ideas that made perfectly intuitive sense but turned out to be wrong, starting with the notion that the Earth was flat and that the Sun rotated around us, both of which were perfectly sensible concepts given the extent of our knowledge and perception at the time.


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## Karen

You're right about that, Brad, and that's why I think it's a disgrace that the CDA (and the American Diabetes Association) refuse to sponsor studies into this kind of thing, for fear of upsetting their "Big Pharm" financial backers. (That's my opinion, of course.)


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## Berubeland

A study was made of native peoples who by and large get diabetes more than the average bear. They changed their diet to a more traditional diet which contained lots of meat, and mostly veggies and they were fine. 

After all if you think of it from an evolutionary standpoint, why would the Inuit develop the ability to effectively eat wheat when they can't grow it?

I was also reading about the spread of the gene which allowed lactose tolerance and its spread among the European population. The gene which allows for proper digestion of wheat might be similar depending on your genetic heritage. Another clear difference is the way some people taste coriander a spice I happen to love, but which tastes soapy to others 

The idea that we are all the same is completely false. Equal but different might be a better way to look at it. So one day we may even decide that different diets work better on different people. In any case, weight loss can always be approached as a math problem quite effectively. We all need a certain amount of calories to survive and if you eat less you will lose weight. The problem is that sustaining the discipline needed to lose weight when surrounded with delicious and nutritious food is almost impossible for me. 

Now when I had gestational diabetes, I was monitoring my blood sugar with a maniacal precision and I found that when I ate fast food, despite all my research on their posted carbs, my blood sugar would go through the roof and this did not happen when eating food from the grocery store. This led me to believe that...fast food chains are cooking the books when it comes to their nutritional information. The caloric information is likely the same. In short they are complete liars. 

I will freely admit that I have been completely unable to maintain the "optimum weight" in fact even when I wore a size 28 jean I still weighed more than 140lbs. I was not fat at all but I was working full time in construction. I may be made of rocks  certainly my head.


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## brad

Berubeland said:


> Now when I had gestational diabetes, I was monitoring my blood sugar with a maniacal precision and I found that when I ate fast food, despite all my research on their posted carbs, my blood sugar would go through the roof and this did not happen when eating food from the grocery store.


I think this goes to the point of "good carbs, bad carbs." White flour, white rice, potatoes, etc. have a high glycemic index; complex carbs like whole-wheat flour, brown rice, etc. have a lower glycemic index, take longer to digest, and don't have such a large effect on blood sugar.


----------



## Berubeland

brad said:


> I think this goes to the point of "good carbs, bad carbs." White flour, white rice, potatoes, etc. have a high glycemic index; complex carbs like whole-wheat flour, brown rice, etc. have a lower glycemic index, take longer to digest, and don't have such a large effect on blood sugar.


No I had white bread at home too and the difference was too marked at the fast food joints. For instance I was told eat xx amount of carbs per meal. Because you have to have some when you're pregnant or so we were told. My blood sugar would double at least what I would expect. For instance, I could have two slices of Pizza. If I had Delissio at home (Not exactly health food) it would be right on the mark. If I went to Pizza Pizza I'd be double and way over my optimum. 

Keep in mind I was insulin dependent so you are in danger of low blood sugar as well as high blood sugar. Twice per day I had to give myself needles. So your carbs have to be constant. I can tell you from my experience that low blood sugar is much worse than high blood sugar. Specifically you can not think at all. You are really foggy and then you start to shake. It takes hours to feel better after you have a low. At the end of my pregnancy I would wake up every night at around 3 am with low blood sugar and was eating 8 times per day. All I can say is that it was very unpleasant. 

The entire business of being pregnant for me was as far from fun as you could ever imagine. Foot infection, gestational diabetes, trouble walking, and Dr's. I had 11 ultrasounds, weekly visits with the diabetes clinic and nutrtionist, OB gyn, family Dr and a specialist in gestational diabetes. Me who goes to the Dr when I'm dying found myself constantly at some Dr. The labour part was by far the easiest part. 6 hours and finito and I immediately felt better. Even that part was weird because I kept telling my OB that I was having these blood sugar lows in the middle of the night. After pooh poohing me for weeks she freaked out and told me the reason why was because the placenta was aging and demanded to know why I hadn't told her before she slammed the door and told me a baby had died the year before because of this problem and sent me to the hospital to have the baby immediately. 

Now I had entered a contest at Sears where if you predict when you will have the baby correctly you win the amount you spent at Sears for more baby stuff. I had guessed the 30th of October. So when the OB sent me to the hospital at 2 in the afternoon on the 29th, I thought to myself I'm winning the contest! I didn't feel anything until 6pm even though they were pumping me full of drugs to have the baby. Even later I was sure I was going to win the contest. I had Matthew around 11:45 pm. Shucks I had lost $600 by 15 minutes. The good drugs helped me with my disappointment


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## carverman

Berubeland said:


> *If I went to Pizza Pizza I'd be double and way over my optimum.*


Fast foods where a lot of things are fried is one of the main causes of the current obesity epidemic we are now experiencing in NA.,,which gives rise to all the currentl weight loss clinics, schemes and chains that are heavily advertised
these days.

To change the trend (obesity and other fast food related dysfunctions (or diseases as result), we need to change our eating habits.

Of course, this is easy enough to say..and some of us are fully aware of what is happening within ourselves, but the majority out there, especially the youth, just ignore the inevitable and eat unhealthy because of heavy advertising by the fast food chains..and too much fat and carb intake.
Why does McDs, BKing or DQ adverstise triple burgers? That is a recipe for a coronary if I every saw one. 



> Even later I was sure I was going to win the contest. Shucks* I had lost $600 by 15 minute*s.
> The good drugs helped me with my disappointment


Which is another thing "B". Why in NA.... is gambling/contests on the rise? Why are the poor or those on welfare spending more than ever before on cigarettes, booze and lotteres in which the foremost two are very unhealthy and the later
targetting what welfare dollars they have left over?

Ok, this is a bit off topic, but bad habits are developed due to social evolution, as well as the public inundated
these days with dreams of " winning big", and encouraged by the various lotteries targetting those that perhaps can't afford it. Too many prepared frozen foods in the grocery stores.. and "aw honey, lets take a break from cooking
tonight and go out to Pizza Pizza", and gorge ourselves on all that fat and carbs...or..I'll just plunk down my CC and get that special fast food that I've been craving for all week and have it delivered while I watch the big game or something on
TV. It's just so convenient to eat unhealthy that we don't think otherwise. 

Succumbing to temptation, for any human need..such as "comfort food" or a shot at a dream to escape their ordinary lives is
what perhaps ails us the most?..IMO.


----------



## Karen

Berubeland, you may be referring to a study conducted by Dr. Jay Wortman, who convinced nearly the entire population of the village of Alert Bay, BC, many of whom are members of the Namgis First Nation and are diabetic, to give up carbohydrates for a full year. A few years ago, the CBC's _The Passionate Eye_ ran a documentary on the experiment called "My Big Fat Diet." I happened to watch it when it first aired, and it was fascinating. Here's an excerpt from a story CBC Newsworld ran on the documentary:

_...No one's life is untouched by this problem [diabetes, obesity, and heart disease] , everyone is related to someone who is either at risk, or coping with one of these health issues. Mainstream medical professionals cite sedentary lifestyles and a diet rich in fat as the underlying reason for the growing epidemic.

...But after two decades of service in public health and a distinguished career, Métis physician, Dr. Jay Wortman, believes that the western diet which replaced the traditional diet is the primary cause of the epidemic. "Obesity, diabetes and heart disease were unknown in these populations until very recently. No aboriginal language has a word for diabetes." 

*Wortman's conviction comes from personal experience. Four years ago, he discovered that he had type 2 diabetes. "My immediate instinctive response was to stop eating any food that caused my blood sugar to rise. So I eliminated carbohydrates from my diet. Within four weeks, my blood sugar and blood pressure had normalized and I began to feel much better."*_ (my emphasis)

Here are a few short excerpts from the documentary itself - unfortunately I don't think the whole video is available on the internet.

http://www.cbc.ca/thelens/bigfatdiet/video.html

http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2008/03/cbc-tvs-my-big-fat-diet-puts-high-fat.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY68SIm1mSA&feature=player_embedded


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## RoR

Karen said:


> I read about 15 years ago that 17 pharmaceutical companies are the main source of funding for the Canadian Diabetes Association.


Ever noticed the products the Heart and Stroke Foundation has their logo stamped on at the grocery store? It's a joke. I will never donate a dime to them.


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## carverman

RoR said:


> Ever noticed the products the Heart and Stroke Foundation has their logo stamped on at the grocery store? *It's a joke*.


Marketplace (CBC) did an expose on these products with their heart logo..(heartsmart?.big red checkmark) 
It's consumer hype heaped on us by the manufacturers, trying to push their products on the "health bandwagon". 
In many cases with a substantial donation to Heart & Stroke, they are allowed to use the logo and
the red check mark on certain products. 

When Marketplace interviewed a spokesperson from the H&S Foundation on how the foods where selected..she declined and mentioned only that we don't do the testing, we leave it up to the manufacturers...so paraphrasing her words...for those
that can "read between the lines"...."we don't care what they sell or how "heart smart" it may be..we just want those big donations coming".

Here is the link to the CBC Marketplace expose....check out the ONQI foods and the non ONQI foods.
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/hyping_health/

What this is an example of consumer brainwashing, so when you go shopping you are accustomed to reaching for items with the H&S "approval" because you don't know any different AND you are led to believe that these items are actually better for you.

Now for those that still believe that is true..I got some prime real estate swamp land to sell you for millions.


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## steve41

There was an interesting demographic study I came across in GCBC... the results showed that rates of obesity (and I think, diabetes) in depressed areas where the population, even though they were physically active.... working in agriculture/manual labour... were greatest .

The interpretation was that they couldn't afford protein and fat rich foods, they subsisted on potatoes, pasta, bread... inexpensive starchy foods and soda pop. The clincher was that these rural depressed areas had absolutely no fast food outlets.


----------



## Darisha

Karen are there websites you read or refer to for recipes? I'm very interested in changing my diet but my dietitian simply tells me to follow the Canadian food guide, which is a great system for some people but not for me who believes I may have food allergies. I also believe I'm eating a lot of the wrong foods which in turn are making me fat.


----------



## carverman

steve41 said:


> There was an interesting demographic study I came across in GCBC... the results showed that rates of obesity (and I think, diabetes) in depressed areas where the population, even though they were physically active.... *working in agriculture/manual labour... were greatest *.
> 
> Well there is always genetic predisposition..in some cultures just like sickle cell anemia in certain black cultures that gets passed on to offspring and Sachs disease in other cultures. However, coming from a traditional agricultural culture where there was no fast food chains, when I was growing up..I have to dispute your "findings"..Obesity and diabetes
> doesn't just target rural societies that work at labour or farming.
> I would like to see some factual study data that was compiled from a cross section of NA demographics to start to partially convince me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The interpretation was that they couldn't afford protein and fat rich foods, they subsisted on *potatoes, pasta, bread... inexpensive starchy foods and soda pop. * T*he clincher was that these rural depressed areas had absolutely no fast food outlets*.
> 
> 
> 
> My mother was pleasingly plump but not obese in her working days. We lived on a farm and worked hard doing manual labour, haying and threshing.
> We had very little money and back in the 60s when I was going to grade school, the fat food chains had started up yet.
> From what I can remember, there was very little evidence of obesity in the schools that I went to, in the kids at least.
> 
> So there are more reasons for people to become obese or develop diabetes than living on potatoes and other starchy foods..
> if that was the case, the entire population of certain countries would die off because of these two main causes.
Click to expand...


----------



## Karen

Darisha said:


> Karen are there websites you read or refer to for recipes? I'm very interested in changing my diet but my dietitian simply tells me to follow the Canadian food guide, which is a great system for some people but not for me who believes I may have food allergies. I also believe I'm eating a lot of the wrong foods which in turn are making me fat.


Darisha, I'm not ignoring you - I've just been busy and haven't had time to look up some good websites for you. I have a large collection of low-carb cookbooks so I seldom look for recipes on the internet. I'll check with some online friends on my low-carb diabetes website and get some suggestions from them. If you want to PM me with your e-mail addres, I can e-mail you some of my pesonal favourite recipes as well.


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## brad

steve41 said:


> The clincher was that these rural depressed areas had absolutely no fast food outlets.


And on the other hand there's this recent study, which found a positive correlation between proximity to fast food restaurants and obesity among 3 million schoolchildren and 1 million pregnant women: http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/~sdellavi/wp/fastfoodJan09.pdf (summary at http://www.nber.org/aginghealth/2009no1/w14721.html).

This study came to similar conclusions for adolescents: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19106421

Of course, all these studies show is a correlation, they can't tell us whether the cause is sugar (from soft drinks), carbohydrates (from the equivalent of two slices of white bread in the hamburger buns), starchy foods (fries), saturated fat (burgers and fries), simple calorie counts, or the combination of all those factors.


----------



## zylon

*It’s MORE than gluten*

In my opening post I quoted point #2 from Dr Davis's letter to the _Wall Street Journal_.

For new visitors to this thread who may think the discussion is mainly about being gluten-free, I'll repost the link with an expanded quote.



> Ms. Beck–
> 
> Thank you for writing the wonderful article on gluten sensitivity.
> 
> I’d like to bring several issues to your attention, as they are often neglected
> in discussions of “gluten sensitivity”:
> 
> 1) The gliadin protein of wheat has been modified by geneticists through their
> work to increase yield. This work, performed mostly in the 1970s, yielded a form
> of gliadin that is several amino acids different, but increased the
> appetite-stimulating properties of wheat. Modern wheat, a high-yield, semi-dwarf
> strain (not the 4 1/2-foot tall “amber waves of grain” everyone thinks of) is
> now, in effect, an appetite-stimulant that increases calorie intake 400 calories
> per day. This form of gliadin is also the likely explanation for the surge in
> behavioral struggles in children with autism and ADHD.
> 
> 2) The amylopectin A of wheat is the underlying explanation for why two slices
> of whole wheat bread raise blood sugar higher than 6 teaspoons of table sugar or
> many candy bars. It is unique and highly digestible by the enzyme amylase.
> Incredibly, the high glycemic index of whole wheat is simply ignored, despite
> being listed at the top of all tables of glycemic index.
> 
> 3) The lectins of wheat may underlie the increase in multiple autoimmune and
> inflammatory diseases in Americans, especially rheumatoid arthritis and
> inflammatory bowel diseases (ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s).
> 
> In other words, if someone is not gluten-sensitive, they may still remain
> sensitive to the many non-gluten aspects of modern high-yield semi-dwarf wheat,
> such as appetite-stimulation and mental “fog,” joint pains in the hands, leg
> edema, or the many rashes and skin disorders. This represents one of the most
> important examples of the widespread unintended effects of modern agricultural
> genetics and agribusiness.
> 
> William Davis, MD
> 
> http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/02/my-letter-to-the-wall-street-journal-its-more-than-gluten/


----------



## zylon

*2:40 youtube*

*Dr William Davis*
Whole grain, organic, ciabatta, or Twinkie ... it's all the same 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexJlVLbDzI


----------



## the-royal-mail

Hi Darisha, have you actually been on the canada food guide website? I follow the food guide in my eating and have lost a lot of weight as a result and had to buy new clothes. I still eat food that I like and continue to shun the food that I don't. 

Anyway, the website allows you to customize your own food guide where you choose what food you like to eat. At the end it will produce a nice, one-page PDF report that you can use as your guide to fix up your eating. I highly recommend this.


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## Toronto.gal

Well, thanks to Karen & Zylon [and even Harold in part], I'll try a wheat-free lifestyle [let's see how long it will last].

Interesting information, so thanks to all contributors; live & learn in this 'respectable money forum' !


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## steve41

OK.... so we have trashed wheat and sugar and seem to have resurrected sat fats and protein. Now, if we could only see our way clear to turning the food pyramid 180 degrees, we would be close to vindicating good old Bob Atkins.


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## Karen

I'll be waiting with bated breath to see how your wheat-free lifestyle works out, Toronto.gal!


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## Toronto.gal

And you'll be the 1st to know Karen. 

Seriously, thank you so much for all the information & recipes!


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## brad

steve41 said:


> OK.... so we have trashed wheat and sugar and seem to have resurrected sat fats and protein.


I think that's a bit of a leap. This article from the Harvard School of Public Health has what's probably the best non-technical and up-to-date (published in 2012) summary of current knowledge on the subject:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-full-story/index.html

They agree that "low fat" diets are not only not effective but potentially dangerous, for two reasons: 1) many people on low-fat diets replace the fat with refined carbohydrates, and 2) cutting out fat indiscriminately means cutting out the good fats (unsaturated and polyunsaturated) that have proven health benefits.

Here's the important distinction they make on saturated fats:



> ...some of the media and blog coverage of these studies would have you believe that scientists had given a green light to eating bacon, butter, and cheese. But that’s an oversimplified and erroneous interpretation. Read the study and subsequent studies more closely, and the message is more nuanced: Cutting back on saturated fat can be good for health if people replace saturated fat with good fats, especially, polyunsaturated fats. Eating good fats in place of saturated fat lowers the “bad” LDL cholesterol, and it improves the ratio of total cholesterol to “good” HDL cholesterol, lowering the risk of heart disease. Eating good fats in place of saturated fat can also help prevent insulin resistance, a precursor to diabetes.


Bottom line: "As you choose foods with healthy fat, and limit the amount of trans and saturated fats in your diet, keep in mind that replacing saturated fat with refined carbohydrates will not protect you against heart disease and may even raise your risk. But there is solid proof that replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fats will help lower your heart disease risk."


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## steve41

To each his own. There are studies galore out there, both pro and anti saturated fat. There is a growing awareness of the fact that the Lipid Hypothesis just might be bogus. Here is a clip from the movie "Big Fat Lies" which speaks to the issue....The end of the Lipid Hypothesis


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## Kim

I try to go as wheat free as I can - but it is painful - perhaps because I grew up on toast and cereal and then during university I lived on KD and McD . 

I have always been active and weight was never an issue. Now that I am less active I notice that I can't eat everything I would like or at least not as much. 

But as someone said in a previous post, when your body is going through wheat withdrawel it can seem like you get really short fused ....lol. It's like your wired for wheat! 

But I also have really noticed a change for the posative in the amount of energy I have after a few days of eating more of the foods that Karen mentioned. I encourage and applaud those who are trying to eat healthy, whatever form it may be.


----------



## brad

It's a lot to read, but if you're interested there's a very thorough and thoughtful (and brilliantly written) critique of Wheat Belly here:

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/10/wheat-belly-toll-of-hubris-on-human.html

Bottom line is that Dr. Davis's arguments are on pretty shaky scientific ground and in some cases downright inaccurate, but his advice to avoid processed "wheat products" makes sense. Whether that means we should avoid wheat altogether is less clear. 

This quote sums up some of the weaknesses pretty clearly:



> Dr. Davis argues that carbohydrate-rich foods promote blood sugar swings, leading to food cravings, and promote insulin spikes, leading to fat storage (p. 35). But there is no evidence that minor fluctuations of blood sugar within the normoglycemic range cause harm, and a little bit of fat will nearly flatten the glycemic index of a carbohydrate-rich food in healthy people. Whether insulin makes people fat is currently a matter of vigorous debate, and Wheat Belly would have benefited if Dr. Davis had presented this relationship as a hypothesis rather than stating it as a simple matter of fact.
> 
> Davis acknowledges that "foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, potato starch, and tapioca starch are among the few foods that increase blood sugar even more than wheat products" (p. 72), but he leaves us with no explanation of why the billions of people the world over who live largely on rice, potato, cassava, corn, or similar starches are not fat. Davis presents no evidence that the wheat of 100 years ago contained meaningfully less carbohydrate than today's wheat, and Americans consumed more of it then than now. Yet, as he acknowledges, if you were to "hold up a picture of ten random Americans against a picture of ten Americans from the early twentieth century, or any preceding century where photographs are available . . . you'd see the stark contrast: Americans are now fat."


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## humble_pie

thank you, i'll read it.

has anyone asked the current round of no-starch-no-wheat-nothing-but-meat-fats-eggs-fish-dairy what about the ancient non-hybridized grains like quinoa, spelt, amaranth. These should be OK afaik.

plus years of meats-fats-eggs-fish-dairy are going to do a bad number on the bod. Kidneys. Livers. Possible demineralization of bones from hyper-protein.


----------



## Toronto.gal

Before a major alteration in my diet, I would most likely consult a dietician first, just to be sure.


----------



## brad

The problem is that most dieticians are trained in the "conventional wisdom," which may well turn out to be sound, but is highly distrusted by advocates of alternative diets. Most dieticians would tell you that you can lose weight on any diet, which is true, and studies show that most people will lose it most quickly on a low-carb diet. But a diet to lose weight and a diet to live on for the rest of your life are not necessarily the same thing.

The dietary establishment is for the most part sticking to what you see in the Harvard School of Public Health links that I provided above: eat a varied diet high in vegetables, less high in fruit, and even less high in protein; avoid saturated fats and simple carbohydrates. There's a lot of research and experience to back this up, but advocates of alternative diets claim (and in some cases are even able to convincingly demonstrate) that the research is flawed. 

Ultimately most of the uncertainties boil down to the fact that we can't run perfectly controlled experiments on human subjects, so there are always a few other variables at play than the ones we're trying to test.


----------



## carverman

brad said:


> T But a diet to lose weight and a *diet to live on for the rest of your life are not necessarily the same thing.*


and for those that can't stick to their diet..there is always Jenny Craig...
hmmm..did I date her a long time ago? She was quite plumpish then,
if I can remember.


----------



## brad

To give you a sense of the debate on carbs, wheat, insulin, etc. on the one hand you have people like Gary Taubes and Peter Attia, MD, who hold that carbohydrates (including wheat) are the cause of obesity (Attia has demonstrated some impressive results on his own low-carb diet): http://waroninsulin.com/dr-peter-attia

And then you have people like Dr. Stephen Guyenet, who offers evidence that "the carbohydrate hypothesis of obesity is not only incorrect on a number of levels, but it may even be backward":

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html (he has a number of follow-on posts where he provides more evidence and arguments).

And then there are the paleo people, the Blue Zone people (who study the diets of areas in the world where a high percentage of people live to be 100 or older), and on and on.

Each camp can cite dozens if not hundreds of studies to support its conclusions. I don't think any of these questions are going to be settled for many more years yet.


----------



## steve41

brad said:


> To give you a sense of the debate on carbs, wheat, insulin, etc. on the one hand you have people like Gary Taubes and Peter Attia, MD, who hold that carbohydrates (including wheat) are the cause of obesity (Attia has demonstrated some impressive results on his own low-carb diet): http://waroninsulin.com/dr-peter-attia
> 
> And then you have people like Dr. Stephen Guyenet, who offers evidence that "the carbohydrate hypothesis of obesity is not only incorrect on a number of levels, but it may even be backward":
> 
> http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html (he has a number of follow-on posts where he provides more evidence and arguments).
> 
> And then there are the paleo people, the Blue Zone people (who study the diets of areas in the world where a high percentage of people live to be 100 or older), and on and on.
> 
> Each camp can cite dozens if not hundreds of studies to support its conclusions. I don't think any of these questions are going to be settled for many more years yet.


Yabut. Since the lo-fat/hi-carb regimen was preached starting in the 70s, our obesity rates have gone through the roof. I am with Gary Taubes.

Our body is not a physics experiment (calories in=calories out) it is a complex biology experiment.


----------



## brad

steve41 said:


> Yabut. Since the lo-fat/hi-carb regimen was preached starting in the 70s, our obesity rates have gone through the roof.


Right, as the Harvard School of Public Health says: 



> The low-fat approach to eating may have made a difference for the occasional individual, but as a nation it hasn't helped us control weight or become healthier. In the 1960s, fats and oils supplied Americans with about 45 percent of calories; about 13 percent of adults were obese and under 1 percent had type 2 diabetes, a serious weight-related condition. Today, Americans take in less fat, getting about 33 percent of calories from fats and oils; yet 34 percent of adults are obese and 11 percent have diabetes, most with type 2 diabetes.


And they go on to agree with some of what Gary Taubes says:



> One problem with a generic lower fat diet is that it prompts most people to stop eating fats that are good for the heart along with those that are bad for it. Another problem is that when people cut back on fat, they often switch to foods full of easily digested carbohydrates—white bread, white rice, potatoes, sugary drinks, and the like—or to fat-free products that replace healthful fats with sugar and refined carbohydrates. The body digests these carbohydrates very quickly, causing blood sugar and insulin levels to spike. Over time, eating lots of “fast carbs” can raise the risk of heart disease and diabetes as much as—or more than—eating too much saturated fat.


What's missing here is the final part of Taubes's equation, which says that insulin spikes lead to obesity. If you read Stephen Guyenet's critique here, he offers a lot of evidence for why that last part of Taubes's hypothesis doesn't seem to hold water

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html

And you do have to ask why the billions of people who live on high-carb diets around the world (rice, potatoes, and other starchy foods) aren't anywhere near as fat as us. Is it genetics? Lifestyle? Exercise? Quantity of food?

I still think there are a lot more questions than there are answers.


----------



## steve41

My understanding is that the issue of insulin's direct effect on fat storage has been known and studied long before GT was on the scene.


----------



## steve41

There is another aspect to the problem.... our metabolic processes do not behave the same way. We all know people that can consume bushels of carbs, lead seemingly sedentary lives and yet don't put on a stick of weight.

Obesity experts don't like to acknowledge this genetic effect... namely that some people can handle carbs and others can't... for the simple reason that those with severe obesity, instead of trying to fight their obesity with diet/exercise, will simply throw up their hands in frustration, blaming it on their genetic make-up.


----------



## brad

steve41 said:


> My understanding is that the issue of insulin's direct effect on fat storage has been known and studied long before GT was on the scene.


Right, it's been studied, but never "known." Guyet points to a bunch of studies showing no relationship between insulin and fat storage, for example this meta-analysis (a study of studies):



> As a further data point, consider the review paper published in 2007 by Hivert and colleagues (5). They reviewed all the studies that examined the relationship between fasting and/or post-meal insulin level and future weight gain (there are a number of them). Here's what they found:
> 
> The majority of prospective studies that included non-obese adults failed to show an association between insulin level at baseline and future weight gain.
> On the other hand, other large cohort studies have shown that insulin resistance, which is usually associated with high plasma insulin levels, could be protective against weight gain.
> High insulin does not generally predict future weight gain, and sometimes it even predicts lower future weight gain.


----------



## brad

steve41 said:


> There is another aspect to the problem.... our metabolic processes do not behave the same way. We all know people that can consume bushels of carbs, lead seemingly sedentary lives and yet don't put on a stick of weight.


I'm with you there, and I do think genetics is likely to emerge as a major player in how we respond to different foods. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, my girlfriend and her daughter can eat anything they want, as much as they want, and they don't gain weight; in fact my stepdaughter has never been able to get above 85 pounds despite a diet high in sugar, white bread and other processed foods, and every kind of fat (one of her favorite suppers is a big bowl of mashed potatoes with 1/2 of a stick of butter). And she never, ever exercises.


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## zylon

*Am thoroughly enjoying this book:*

An excerpt from "_Life Without Bread_":


> Observations recorded throughout modern history reflect the benefit of low-carbohydrate nutrition. Herodotus tells of the meeting between a Persian delegation and the king of Ethiopia in the fifth century B.C., and of the curiosity of the Ethiopian king concerning Cambyses, the Persian king:
> 
> Finally (the Ethiopian king) came to the wine and, having learnt the process of its manufacture, drank some and found it delicious; then, for a last question, he asked what the Persian king ate and what was the greatest age that Persians could attain. Getting in reply an account of the nature and cultivation of wheat, and hearing that the Persian king ate bread, and that people in Persia did not commonly live beyond eighty, he said he was not surprised that anyone who ate dung should die so soon, adding that the Persians would doubtlessly die younger still, if they did not keep themselves going with that drink - and here he pointed to the wine - the only thing in which he admitted the superiority of the Persians.
> 
> The Persians, in their turn, asked the Ethiopian king how long the Ethiopians lived and what they ate, and were told that most of them lived to be 120, and some even more, and that they ate boiled meat and drank milk.











http://www.amazon.ca/Life-Without-Bread-Low-Carbohydrate-Diet/dp/0658001701


----------



## brad

zylon said:


> The Persians, in their turn, asked the Ethiopian king how long the Ethiopians lived and what they ate, and were told that most of them lived to be 120, and some even more, and that they ate boiled meat and drank milk.


This is probably an example of the well-documented practice in ancient times of giving exaggerated life expectancies; legends are rampant with this stuff. One of Noah's ancestors, Enoch, was said to have lived 365 years. When you look at anthropological studies based on analysis of skeletal remains it's pretty clear that life expectancies back then in most of the world were typically in the 20-40 year range.

As a modern-day counterpart, consider the Blue Zone studies, which are areas of the world with higher life expectancies and a much higher likelihood of people living to 100 than they do in most of North America. Guidelines based on studying the diets and lifestyles of these people are "Go ahead and eat meat if you want. But consider it a condiment and try the leanest, finest meat you can afford. Try to limit it to a portion the size of a deck of cards and only twice per week. Beans, including fava, black and soy and lentils are the cornerstone of most centenarian diets. Snacking on nuts–about a handful a day has been associated with and extra 2-3 years of life expectancy." See http://www.bluezones.com/live-longer/power-9/


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## humble_pie

zyl don't you think this is going too far 

boiled meat & milk - or was that boiled milk & raw meat - sounds like premium dog food to me.

how about hildegaarde of bingen. The venerated 11th century abbess reportedly never ate one thing for many decades. Just like plants, she had learned to live on sunlight plus the love of the onlybegotten son.


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## zylon

Ah yes, I suppose it's human nature to make everything as complicated as possible; especially when it comes to giving up something tasty!

Several years ago, I started avoiding the cookie and snack-food isles in grocery stores, so I was already half way to being “wheat-free” as most of the stuff there has wheat flour in it. So eliminating wheat entirely is not much of a stretch for me. The other day, I was about to buy a loaf of “organic rye” bread, but upon reading the ingredients I saw that it also contained some “enriched wheat flour”. It looks like the next step for me will be “life without bread”, which shouldn't be so difficult. It helps a lot that I don't have to pack a lunch to work.

Regarding “boiled meat and milk”:
The book I'm reading makes reference to Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his time spent with Eskimos. This snip from Wiki:


> Stefansson is also a figure of considerable interest in dietary circles, especially those with an interest in very low-carbohydrate diets. Stefansson documented the fact that the Inuit diet consisted of about 90% meat and fish; Inuit would often go 6 to 9 months a year eating nothing but meat and fish—essentially, a no-carbohydrate diet. He found that he and his fellow European-descent explorers were also perfectly healthy on such a diet. When medical authorities questioned him on this, he and a fellow explorer agreed to undertake a study under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Association to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks, with paid observers for the rest of an entire year. The results were published in the Journal, and both men were perfectly healthy on such a diet, without vitamin supplementation or anything else in their diet except meat and entrails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson


I wonder how it is that Eskimos didn't get scurvy?









Vilhjálmur Stefánsson (November 3, 1879 – August 26, 1962)


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## steve41

Remember, there is a lot at stake here.... Big Sugar, Big Grain (Kellogg's, Cargill....) the whole animal rights lobby (Vegans, PCRM....)

Anything that smacks of re-emphasizing meat/fish/eggs in our diet... is going to get a lot of push-back.


----------



## brad

steve41 said:


> Anything that smacks of re-emphasizing meat/fish/eggs in our diet... is going to get a lot of push-back.


But I don't think we even have to invoke conspiracies -- certainly mainstream nutritionists have long advocated fish and even eggs (once the dietary cholesterol scare was shown to be misguided) as part of a healthy diet. It's mainly red meat and saturated fat that are the issue here in terms of health impacts, and the jury is still way out on those questions despite many people claiming prematurely to know the truth.

I've been reading an interesting book called The Instinct Diet, by Susan B. Roberts, a nutritionist at Tufts University who has published more than 200 peer-reviewed studies; she uses low carb/high protein as a component of her recommended diet, but not the main feature. She focuses on the basic human instincts that lead us to overeat, one of which is that we seek variety. A high protein/low carb diet can get boring after a while, and our variety instinct starts tempting us to cheat; one of the reasons why people on high protein/low carb diets tend to lose an awful lot of weight in the first year but gain it back in subsequent years. So she mixes it up to try to create a diet you can maintain for life. She claims that 90% of the dieters she's worked with using her methods are maintaining their weight loss. Check it out if you're interested at http://www.instinctdiet.com/science.html.


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## steve41

The only reason I get cranked up about diet and Taubes' book is that 15 years ago I went full-on Atkins. I lost over 60 pounds and I never felt better in my life. I have kept half of it off, mainly due to 'carb/beer/ice cream' slip-ups, but I will always remember my Doc looking at my cholesterol numbers after I rattled off my butter, bacon and rib-eye weekly intake stats and shaking his head in amazement. This stuck with me, although I have fallen (somewhat) off the lo-carb wagon.


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## zylon

Emphasis mine:


> Naturally I went to Gordon with my plateau problem. He then suggested a protein/fat diet and provided a similar “to do” list with food prep and eating. This diet* eliminated the grains completely and focused on lean meats and healthy fats.* I was motivated to achieve optimum health and dutifully followed the diet for 6 weeks. After going through additional symptoms of the “low carb flu”, where your body attempts to convince you it needs carbohydrates from sugar and grains but is really an addiction withdrawal, I did then achieve my weight loss goal (and ultimately 17% BMI!).


Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/you-want-to-eat-like-a-hunter-gatherer/#ixzz1ndnY9TXv


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## brad

There is zero controversy about the fact that a low-carb diet is very effective for weight loss; some comparative studies have found it to be more effective than any other diet. If you want to lose weight quickly, or if you've hit a weight plateau and want to get past it, a low-carb diet is a great choice. 

The only controversies lie in two areas: 1) how healthy is a low-carb diet over the course of a lifetime, and 2) are people who follow a low-carb diet any more (or less) successful in keeping the weight off than those who follow other diets.

Most people focus on a short-term weight loss goal without thinking about how they're going to change their diet and eating habits over the long run. Once they hit their weight goal, the diet is over and they typically slip back to their old habits; many studies have shown that more than 90% of people who lose weight on a diet gain it back (and more) within a year. The ones who are successful are those who monitor their weight regularly, control their portion sizes, and live on a diet that is sustainable over a lifetime. One of our food instincts is to favour variety in our diet, and because a low-carb diet can get monotonous after a while it becomes harder and harder to maintain it as the years go on.

As for the long-term health effects of a low-carb diet, the only way we're going to get a clear understanding of that is by following the health outcomes of people who've stuck with diets such as Atkins or South Beach for decades on end. I'm sure there are studies underway to do just that, but the results probably won't be known for another 20 years.

What I like about Susan Roberts' approach (The Instinct Diet) is that she focuses on giving you the basic skills you need to keep your weight from getting out of control. She focuses on five basic food instincts (Hunger, Availability, Calorie Density, Familiarity, and Variety) that affect our drives to eat, and shows you how to deal with those instincts constructively to shift yourself into a diet that's uncomplicated, varied, satisfying, and sustainable over a lifetime.


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## zylon

Hey Brad, thanks for the input. It's all quite new to me, and I'm happy to say that being “wheat-free” is quite easy for me.

The thing that got me interested in this topic was Dr Davis's claim that the gliadin protein of wheat stimulates the appetite, and it makes sense to me that if a person eliminates wheat from the diet, thereby reducing appetite, and especially getting rid of cravings, would be a good thing.

Am still reading “_Life Without Bread_” which has way more detailed info than I would ever need, but I suppose many people appreciate reading all the nitty gritty research results. The authors recommend keeping carbohydrate intake to 72 utilizable grams per day. There is an *“Appendix: Carbohydrate Table”* in the book which can be viewed by clicking on the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Without-Bread-Low-Carbohydrate-Diet/dp/0658001701

There are carbs in abundance in a wide variety of food. Even if one eliminates all bread, pastry, junk food, and sweet fruit, there are still lots of foods to choose from to get the desired amount of carbohydrates.


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## zylon

*Wheat Belly - the book*

Excellent review of _*Wheat Belly*_ by William Davis, M.D. here:

http://www.proteinpower.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8483


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## brad

New study provides the strongest evidence yet that red meat consumption leads to cancer and cardiovascular disease, based on a study of 37,000 men and 83,000 women over a total of 2.6 million person-years.

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/archinternmed.2011.2287

Even after controlling for other risk factors (e.g., smoking, sedentary behaviour), the researchers found the relationship held up. "We estimated that substitutions of 1 serving per day of other foods (including fish, poultry, nuts, legumes, low-fat dairy, and whole grains) for 1 serving per day of red meat were associated with a 7% to 19% lower mortality risk. We also estimated that 9.3% of deaths in men and 7.6% in women in these cohorts could be prevented at the end of follow-up if all the individuals consumed fewer than 0.5 servings per day (approximately 42 g/d) of red meat."

"The strengths of the present study include a large sample size, high rates of long-term follow-up, and detailed and repeated assessments of diet and lifestyle. All the participants were health professionals, minimizing potential confounding by educational attainment or differential access to health care."


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## zylon

*Red Fife wheat makes a royal return*

"Bakers, restaurants and a prince prize a grandmother’s organic, heritage wheat"



> Are people going crazy over Hastings’ Red Fife wheat flour just because it tastes different?
> 
> Its taste and texture are prized by bakers — bread bakers I know are particularly passionate about the Heritage Hard Red Spring Wheat.
> 
> But there’s another factor that’s making people seek out the heritage grain: a new book, Wheat Belly, by U.S. cardiologist William Davis, which zoomed to top of bestseller lists just before Christmas and which is still in the Top 20 on Amazon.ca.
> 
> In Wheat Belly, Davis makes the argument that everything from unattractive stomach bulges to diabetes, heart disease and stroke can be attributed to modern wheat, which, he says, has been hybridized into what he calls a “Frankengrain” that’s so bad for us, it should carry a surgeon general’s warning. The only way around the unhealthy outcome is to avoid wheat altogether, or to seek out the rare heritage breeds, such as Red Fife, that have not been altered, Davis says.
> 
> Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Fife+wheat+makes+royal+return/6302530/story.html#ixzz1pEXrSBeb


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## brad

Zylon, that's interesting -- I've been using hard red wheat flour for my bread for several years now, and I love it -- I just am not sure whether "hard red wheat" is automatically different from dwarf wheat or whether dwarf wheat comes in different varieties, one of which is red wheat? 

I can get organic red-wheat bread flour here, so that's what I use for bread, along with whole-wheat and some spelt flour these days. It makes a really nice tasting loaf.


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## zylon

Just off the top of my head, dwarf wheat is a softer "white" wheat; favoured by growers because of it's higher yield, shorter stalk, and shorter growing season.

I'll google around to see what I can find, and will edit this post if I'm mistaken.

*Added:* From what I've been reading, it isn't clear if the “dwarfing” gene can be applied to hard red spring wheat without altering the characteristics of the grain, changing only the stem. It appears that the process of “dwarfing” any variety, results in the creation of yet another variety. If that is correct, then any flour made from “hard red spring” would not have been altered genetically.


> Durum – Very hard, translucent, light-colored grain used to make semolina flour for pasta and bulghur.
> Hard Red Spring – Hard, brownish, high-protein wheat used for bread and hard baked goods. Bread Flour and high-gluten flours are commonly made from hard red spring wheat. It is primarily traded at the Minneapolis Grain Exchange.
> Hard Red Winter – Hard, brownish, mellow high-protein wheat used for bread, hard baked goods and as an adjunct in other flours to increase protein in pastry flour for pie crusts. Some brands of unbleached all-purpose flours are commonly made from hard red winter wheat alone. It is primarily traded by the Kansas City Board of Trade. One variety is known as "turkey red wheat", and was brought to Kansas by Mennonite immigrants from Russia.
> Soft Red Winter – Soft, low-protein wheat used for cakes, pie crusts, biscuits, and muffins. Cake flour, pastry flour, and some self-rising flours with baking powder and salt added, for example, are made from soft red winter wheat. It is primarily traded by the Chicago Board of Trade.
> Hard White – Hard, light-colored, opaque, chalky, medium-protein wheat planted in dry, temperate areas. Used for bread and brewing.
> Soft White – Soft, light-colored, very low protein wheat grown in temperate moist areas. Used for pie crusts and pastry. Pastry flour, for example, is sometimes made from soft white winter wheat.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat


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## brad

That's interesting! If so, it would imply that most good breads (at least breads made from bread flour) wouldn't be made from dwarf wheat. I certainly always use bread flour (which has more gluten) when I make bread, and I assume most artisan bakeries do as well...probably the big commercial bakeries and supermarket bakeries are using plain all-purpose type white flour.


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## zylon

*The Wheat Lobby Smokescreen*

Dr Davis addresses some of the counterarguments from the wheat lobby.

“Wheat is not genetically-modified.”
“Grains have been eaten by humans for thousands of years.”
“Healthy whole grains have repeatedly been shown to reduce risk for diabetes, heart disease, and colon cancer.”
I won't quote any of his comments, as the text inside quote boxes is ducedly difficult to decifer after the forum upgrade.

Full blog post here:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/03/the-wheat-lobby-smokescreen/


----------



## brad

zylon said:


> “Wheat is not genetically-modified.”


Dr. Davis admits that wheat is not, in fact, genetically modified in the modern sense of the term, since there hasn't been any gene-splicing involved. But then he says "But that does not mean that the genetics of wheat have not been changed. Its genetics, in fact, have been extensively changed using techniques that include hybridization, repeating backcrossing (to winnow out specific characteristics like short height or seed head size), embryo rescue (to rescue otherwise fatal mutations), and chemical, gamma ray, and x-ray mutagenesis (induction of mutations, used for instance to create the popular Clearfield strain of wheat that is herbicide-resistant). These techniques, as any geneticist will tell you, are far less predictable, less controllable . . . far worse than the act of inserting or removing just one gene."

Apart from the mutagenesis, I'd like to see an example of ANY cultivated vegetable, or livestock for that matter, that hasn't been subjected to these types of genetic modification. Tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, broccoli, cabbage, kale, etc. as we know them today are not found in nature. All of the cultivars we rely on for food have been genetically modified for centuries through human selection to preserve the characteristics we want and repress the characteristics we don't want. The cultivars used to produce supermarket tomatoes, for example, have been bred to maximize their ability to survive shipping, at the expense of flavour, which is why heirloom varieties usually taste much better.

I really don't think he has much of a case on this point, and I tend to agree with the critics who say that there's nothing about wheat that makes it addictive, it's the products like cinnamon buns, cupcakes, brownies, etc. that the food industry has made from wheat that are hard to resist.


----------



## zylon

*Another question for the doctor*

{quote}My doctor has prescribed a low fat diet due to a barrage of tests that ended up showing I have a very fatty liver. I am overweight, have high blood pressure, IBS and acid reflux. In all the reading I have done on here, I keep seeing to add fats . . . healthy ones . . . to your daily eating. How do I eat these and also stick to a low fat diet to please my doctor? I am 59, female, and really need to try to get healthier.

Thanks, Denise

The reply with comments from readers here:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/03/your-liver-is-fat/

~~~~~//~~~~~

The reason I think this “wheat-free” topic isn't going to go away anytime soon, is because of the experiences of those who do try this lifestyle. 

It's likely the case that a healthy person under the age of 30 won't notice any difference if s/he stops eating food made from or containing wheat. By the time most people reach 40, chances are good that some slippage has occurred. I'm in reasonably good health for “an old guy”, recently had a full medical with all kinds of tests being done, so I was pleasantly surprised to notice changes for the better when I beat the wheat. 

Some changes are noticeable quite soon; the first thing I noticed was that the craving for stuff in the bakery corner disappeared within a few days. Shortly after that, I noticed that I could once again go 5 to 6 hours between meals without snacking, and without symptoms of weakness, trembling hands, pain in legs; - which had been common before, if I didn't have some kind of snack every two hours.

According to the extensive studies done by the authors of “Life Without Bread”, the more serious conditions show gradual improvement over months and years. As I recall from reading the book, patients with full blown Crohn's disease were still showing improvement after 8 years of being grain-free and low carb.


----------



## steve41

While we are in the mood (i.e. trashing carbs), 60 minutes has a 'Sugar is Evil' segment on tonite.


----------



## zylon

*thanks Steve*

The video mentioned in the _60 Minutes_ segment:

*Sugar: The Bitter Truth* (90 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&ob=av3e
2,162,191


> Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin.


Added: I've watched 1/2 hour of the video so far; I keep losing the connection and will have to watch the rest tomorrow. Since I started watching, it's rec'd another 1,200 hits. People around the world are showing interest; and that's a good thing.


----------



## zylon

*This is pretty bad.*

"In Alberta's long term care home seniors are eating from a new menu. 
The reviews are in - It's awful! Absolutely Dreadful."

Tough to Swallow: Meals That Sparked a Seniors Revolt 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc6TQLOQcb4
5,752


----------



## zylon

*another happy camper*

snip:


> I am 28, and for the first time in 5 years, feel like I might make it out of this fat, sad hell before my youth is gone. Thank you for saving us. Thank you for inspiring my husband to make this change for us. He has never tried more than a little to fix all that was so very wrong before now. I couldn’t have imagined life could get so much better so easily and so quickly. *~Ashley*





> In susceptible individuals, the gliadin protein of wheat is not a food ingredient; it is a drug. And not a drug that improves health, but one that introduces marked disruption of mood, thinking, and behavior. Just as not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic, some people are susceptible to the gliadin mind and mood effects of wheat much more so than others. Ashley’s story makes clear that she was–was–among the victims of this incredibly potent drug. *~Dr Davis*


http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/06/bipolar-disorder-anxiety-pms-gone/


----------



## steve41

The problem with this campaign against carbs (grains, sugars) is that the power wielded by the agriculture lobbies, Big Grain and Big Sugar has to be colossal. Turning around the eating habits of millions of consumers by even the smallest percentage would be devastating to them. Let alone the PETA/PCRM lobby. The food pyramid is completely bogus.... but don't expect it change any time soon.


----------



## zylon

Apparently the wheat/grain lobbies are stepping it up a notch, trying to discredit Dr Davis. I don't think they have anything to worry about.

Just as with alcohol or nicotine, most people aren't going to stop eating wheat just because someone points out the benefits of doing so.

For those who are suffering from some mysterious ailment, and they discover that quitting wheat seems to be a solution; those people don't need any further convincing.

I think it's worth keeping this thread alive just to help spread the word, and a few people will give wheat-free a try. I have no delusion that wheat growers will go out of business.


----------



## martinv

I am 12 days into "No Wheat". Feel better but that could be a placebo effect.
Down from 178 to 174. Not much but it sure feels great. I seem to be "snacking" less between meals.
Sure would love a sugar glazed donut right about now though. And not one of those Tim's previously frozen "things" either!


----------



## zylon

Way to go *martinv* :encouragement:

It's six months wheat-free for me;
but after reading _Life Without Bread_, I took it a step further and eliminated all bread, pastry, etc.

It didn't take long before the cravings to always have a snack disappeared. Perhaps it was easier for me because I was mostly sugar-free before starting wheat-free. During this fine summer time I do have the occasional ice cream.


----------



## martinv

Thanks, yes, I should have mentioned that by wheat free I meant all grains and grain products, bread, pastry etc.
Will let you know how it does. The donut business was just humour! I really don't crave one....well maybe.


----------



## brad

Another new study shows that while an Atkins-style diet produces the best initial weight loss for dieters, it appears to have significant health risks. Study concludes that a low glycemic diet that's 40 percent minimally processed carbs (whole grains, fruit, nuts, legumes, vegetables), 40 percent fat, and 20 percent protein looks like the best choice:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/which-diet-works/


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## zylon

Hey Brad, your post reminds me that I was going to post this handy *Glycemic Index*.

If I recall correctly, it comes from the book "_Life Without Bread_".










Interesting that ice cream comes after grapes, orange and apple.
And peanuts ... who knew they would be so far down the list?


----------



## brad

zylon said:


> Hey Brad, your post reminds me that I was going to post this handy *Glycemic Index*.


The glycemic index is useful, but it can be very misleading because it only tells you how quickly the sugar in the food gets absorbed into the bloodstream; it doesn't reflect how much sugar is in the food item itself. For example carrots are higher on the glycemic index than white bread is, but you'd have to eat something like a pound and a half of carrots to get the same insulin response as eating one slice of white bread. That's why researchers developed the concept of glycemic load, which takes into account how much sugar a food contains.

There seem to be a number of glycemic indices, with sometimes wildly different values. Here's one from the Harvard School of Public Health that provides glycemic index and glycemic load for 100 foods:

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods.htm

There's a paper here (with more tables) that talks about why different glycemic indexes vary:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/76/1/5.full


----------



## indexxx

Has anyone else noticed other health effects of the wheat-free diet? I'm thinking of allergy/sensitivity responses like eczema/psoriasis or anything else you may have noticed. I get pretty bad eczema on the side of one finger that seems exacerbated by heavier grain consumption. When I've done a Paleo regimen, it seems to settle down- but I've yet to do a serious correlation via tracking my elimination of wheat over a specific timeframe. BTW- anyone read The Paleolithic Prescription? Great book. I've been meaning to get around to reading Against The Grain also.


----------



## zylon

*Brad -*Thanks for the glycemic load list. Haven't got my head wrapped around glycemic load yet; will do more studying 

*indexxx -*No personal experience with the health issues you mentioned, but when reading comments from others, those conditions are often mentioned.

This snip from http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2011/09/whats-baking-at-baking-business/
*
- benefits of a wheat-free diet*


> o Weight loss of 20-50 lbs in the first few months
> o Alleviation of metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes
> o Recovery from intestinal woes like colitis and celiac disease
> o Marked improvement in overall cholesterol and L.D.L. counts
> o Improvement of bone density and reversal of osteopenia
> o *Cessation of skin conditions* from psoriasis to oral ulcers and hair loss
> o Reduction of inflammation and rheumatoid arthritis pain


*- 6 weeks wheat-free Roberto wrote:*


> Health benefits: fat loss – better sleep – *all skin conditions improved* – her hypothyroid meds have been lowered for 1st time in 30 years. (Doc. called us in to explain.) http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/02/my-big-hairy-wheat-belly-experience/


Lots of stories from people who try "wheat-free" are scattered throughout Dr Davis's blog http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/


----------



## m3s

I've been curiously watching as more of my friends try the paleo diet. It all sounds great but takes some more effort if you're always traveling etc. I tried to buy only meat and fruit/veg for groceries this week, which sure simplifies things. Eggs bacon orange juice for breakfast, drinking tea and snacking on fruit and seeds for the day, fish and celery for supper which is oddly a good combo. Rotate steak and chicken but not sure I can give up the rice... I do crave bread sandwich for lunch, but I don't badly crave a coke like I always do after greasy food. Hate to give up fresh croissants and pastry snacks... we'll see


----------



## indexxx

mode3sour said:


> I've been curiously watching as more of my friends try the paleo diet. It all sounds great but takes some more effort if you're always traveling etc. I tried to buy only meat and fruit/veg for groceries this week, which sure simplifies things. Eggs bacon orange juice for breakfast, drinking tea and snacking on fruit and seeds for the day, fish and celery for supper which is oddly a good combo. Rotate steak and chicken but not sure I can give up the rice... I do crave bread sandwich for lunch, but I don't badly crave a coke like I always do after greasy food. Hate to give up fresh croissants and pastry snacks... we'll see


When I do Paleo (not as consistent as before I got married last year) I'll have my protein with a huge pile of steamed, dense vegetables like cauliflower, squash, green beans, yams, brussels sprouts etc with greens like kale or gai lan- really filling, so I don't miss the starches at all. Add a salad with a squeeze of lemon juice or a splash of apple juice- yum! Snacks are raw almonds and fruit.

Someone mentioned bone demineralization from excess protein- this can be prevented by either taking magnesium supplements or vastly increasing your consumption of dark, leafy greens (magnesium is present in the chlorophyll molecule). Magnesium is a cofactor in bone health, aiding in both the absorption of calcium and the prevention of its loss. 

Just an aside- Mg is vital to over 300 metabolic functions, and many in the modern world are slightly deficient at the intracellular level due to diet, stress, alcohol, etc. This deficiency will not show up in standard blood work as if your diet is deficient, your body will constantly leach magnesium out of your tissues to keep your plasma level up; magnesium regulates your heart rate, orthostatic pressure, electrical signalling, serotonin and hydrochloric acid production, electrolyte balances, etc etc so the body must have a proper plasma level to function. There are tests for intracellular levels.


----------



## MoneyGal

Holla! I use magnesium applied topically (and tons of dark green leafy veg).


----------



## zylon

*you might be a "wheat belly" if ...*


You haven’t been able to look straight down and see your toes since high school.

You thought pizza with low-fat cheese was a perfect healthy meal.


You thought you’d pass some gas quietly and unnoticed, only to realize it was the solid discharge of last night’s pasta dinner.

You can navigate traffic hands-free, maneuvering the steering wheel just by shifting your butt left or right.


You think a dinner of whole grain pasta, Italian bread, and tiramisu is a well balanced diet.

You’ve laughed and popped your jeans open.


You considered shoving a little kid aside so that you could get the last muffin at the breakfast bar.

You have to ask your husband to read your weight on the scale.


You dread putting on socks or pantyhose as much as a colonoscopy.

Your dental hygienist puts on a Haz-Mat suit to clean your teeth.


You believe that sprouting wheat seeds in water and labeling them with a God-like name magically transforms them into a healthy food.

You go to Krispy Kreme and they greet you by your first name.


You thought a bowl of sawdust every morning disguised as bran cereal was essential for healthy bowel movements.

You’ve remarked, “Why eat dinner?” after eating all the bread and rolls the waitress served before the entree.


You think fast food can be healthy if you just don’t eat the fries.

You thought a caramel macchiato with a reduced-fat banana chocolate chip coffee cake at Starbucks was a chic breakfast.


You only have to fill the bathtub halfway.

You thought Lite beer was the greatest invention since sliced bread.


You’ve often thought that McDonalds was underrated.

You ate the last half-donut in the box at work.
Source: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/07/you-might-be-a-wheat-belly-when/


----------



## Kail

I really need to get back into eating healthier.

I'm 6'2" and weigh 223lbs. I read the book Wheat Belly back in February and decided to eat better. I cut out all grains / anything with gluten. It was definitely tough considering how much pasta I use to eat but I did it for just over a month and ended up dropping like 15 lbs. My heartburn went away and I generally felt much better. Then I went to Mexico on an all inclusive and my good eating habits were left at the airport. Fast forward to today, still on vacation eating mode even though it has been 4 months and I've put back on 10 of the 15 lbs I lost.

I think I am going to try the Paleo diet on our next grocery run and see how that works. I already don't eat much dairy at all so I don't think it'll be too tough for me. My girlfriend on the other hand loves cheese so it'll be a little more difficult for her.


----------



## zylon

*Arielle's Fitness Blog*

Snip:


> *In “Wheat Belly”, Dr. Davis suggests a 30-day wheat-free challenge. I told myself I had nothing to lose. I went for it! Days 1-21 were more or less unbearable. I didn’t take well to the challenge. I think I had a wheat addiction!!! I went into detox mode, and it wasn’t pretty! Somehow I managed to keep going. It took a lot of willpower and dedication to get through each day. I had to be creative with old recipes and learn some new ones. I even learned how to make my own wheat free pizza crust with almond flour and flax seed! Even with some new recipes under my belt, it was still an uphill battle.
> 
> During week two I dreamt I’d broken down and eaten a bunch of pastries at a buffet table. I woke up convinced I’d lost my wheat-free battle. Luckily, it was only a dream. Once I got through week three, something changed—I didn’t crave wheat anymore! I also noticed a drastic change in my appetite. When I was on wheat, I was constantly hungry. I had an insatiable appetite; one that could only be calmed with more bread and wheat products. Suddenly, the crazy cravings and intense hunger throughout the day had gone away.*
> 
> http://www.diet.com/dietblogs/read_blog.php?title=How+I+Lost+My+%93Wheat+Belly%94&blid=27582


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## martinv

It has now been one month of wheat/grains free. I still do Greek Yoghurt as dairy and "whipping cream" in my coffee (no sugar)!
Even without an exercise routine I am down from 183# to 170# (had it wrong in a previous post). More importantly, one notch in the belt!
The amazing part is that I don't feel hungry all the time. I was a snacker/forager. What's in the fridge dear?
Now I don't even think about it. Still like my ice cream cone but no longer eat the cone.
The most difficult part has been cutting down on my fruit intake (they contain a lot of sugars). Eating more berries instead of peaches,nectarines,bananas etc.
I feel great but it could be a placebo effect.


----------



## zylon

Snips:


> U.S. swimmer Dana Vollmer made history this week when she won Olympic gold in the 100-meter butterfly and set a new world record with a time of 55.98 seconds. While this achievement was a huge breakthrough for the swimmer, it wouldn’t have been possible without a major diet modification she made just last year: Going gluten free.
> 
> (...)
> 
> Vollmer reported being outside with her family on multiple occasions, participating in some kind of friendly competition when a stomach ache would strike and leave her in near tears. But because of the highly-competitive nature of her sport, Vollmer’s family suspected the aches were caused by either nerves or lactic acid build up. But food allergy tests would later reveal that Vollmer was allergic to eggs and gluten – two items she would inevitably be forced to cut from her diet.
> 
> (...)
> 
> Similar to others following a gluten-free diet, Vollmer has likely had to become incredibly aware of the* gluten hiding in many foods beyond just bread and cereal, including deli meats, soy sauce, salad dressings, canned soup, ice cream, and beer,* just to name a few.
> 
> http://www.dietsinreview.com/diet_column/07/olympic-swimmer-dana-vollmer-cuts-gluten-and-wins-gold/


----------



## doctrine

Wow, this does seem to be the fad of the day. Ever think that it might not be the wheat, but just eating less calories? Replacing wheat with vegetables and fruits is probably what most people do, because most people don't perform nearly as much physical activity as they should. 

I am a physically active adult, and eat lots of a wide variety of food, including plenty of good old wheat. Life is easier if you don't have to worry about what you eat, just make sure you don't eat too much and become fat.

Gluten hiding in beer? Really? Beer is made from barley, in case anyone hasn't checked lately. Sheesh.


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## mrPPincer

Gluten (from Latin gluten, "glue") is a protein composite found in foods processed from wheat and related grain species, including barley and rye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten


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## zylon

*One Grain More*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9QbC41oQRo

From the comments:


> Perfect in every way... Got my wife out of bed to watch it... Almost pee'd﻿ my pants...


- found this via Twitter @WilliamDavisMD


----------



## peterk

I'm having a damn hard time with this! Been trying to cut the carbs, sugar, and salt all summer. Pretty much the only thing I've managed is to cut potatoes, and add more salad. Still eating tons of pasta, root vegetables, salt, chips and bread.

I really need to get my own place to live in so I can control the groceries that come into my reach!


----------



## zylon

*Don't quit, peterk !*

Once you get rid of the bread and all other wheat products, you'll be 75% on your way. The gliadin protein of wheat is an appetite stimulant.



> Remember, it’s not about the calories lost with wheat elimination. It is about loss of the *gliadin opiate in wheat that stimulates appetite.* After the gliadin withdrawal that 35% of people experience subsides, i.e., the opiate withdrawal of fatigue, headaches, inability to exercise, and depression, appetite plummets. With diminished appetite, calorie intake drops naturally by 440 calories per day, on average—without restricting calories. You’ve not heard me say “cut your calories, push the plate away, use smaller plates and portions sizes”! Eat as much as you want . . . but you will still find that you are wonderfully satisfied with less.
> 
> Yesterday, I rose at 5:30 a.m., skipped breakfast because I didn’t feel like eating. I ate a 1 p.m. lunch of two handfuls of almonds, about a cup of sliced peppers and cherry tomatoes that I rolled in a few slices of ham with some horseradish mustard. I didn’t feel much like eating dinner so just had a slice of the apple streusel bread I made (with ground almonds, eggs, some chopped apples, and cinnamon) and called it a day!
> 
> Liberate yourself from the tyranny of dietary and weight loss misinformation. Weight loss and weight control are torture . . . unless you remove this thing in your diet that stimulates appetite called wheat.
> 
> http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/08/south-beach-supercharged/


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## martinv

My "new" treat is Lindt Excellence 90% Supreme dark chocolate! Place a small piece on the tongue and allow it to melt,wow! Before going wheat free, I didn't like dark chocolate now I don't like milk chocolate.
Interestingly the 90% cacao contains 2 gm of sugar per serving and the 85% contains 4 gm of sugar. One wouldn't think that the 5% would result in 100% increase in the sugar content.


----------



## snowbird

Interesting....I'm just starting out on this diet. My weight has been bewteen 125-130 pounds ever since i can remember but in the last 3 years, i have developed a big fat belly:hopelessness: which i attribute to lots of bread and sugar. I plan to cut out all wheat products and see if i can lose the belly. i know i can go without bread, but cereals are my go-to Breakfast food so lots of wheat and sugar right there!


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## zylon

*Holly's experience with gluten-free foods*

Dr Davis writes:


> I know I’ve said this many times before, but it bears frequent repeating since so many people are waylaid by this “gluten-free” notion:
> 
> NOBODY should be eating gluten-free foods made with cornstarch, rice starch, tapioca starch, or potato starch. These starches in the dried, powdered form provide an exponential increase in surface area for digestion, thereby leading to sky-high blood sugar and all the consequences of extravagant glycation (glucose-modification of proteins), such as diabetes, visceral fat accumulation, hypertension, cataracts, arthritis, low HDL/high triglycerides/increased small LDL particles, heart disease, and cancer.
> 
> Here are comments from Holly about her experience with gluten-free foods before she learned about their dangerous health effects:
> 
> http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/09/gluten-free-muffin-top/


~via Twitter @WilliamDavisMD

~~~~~//~~~~~









http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gluten_free.asp


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## Dave

I sign under the Wheat Belly book. I know that I have a carbs addtiction/obsession, but when I go wheat free and junk free for a few weeks the effects are magical. The bloating is gone, my stomach gets flat and I have more energy. It is a though lifestyle choice but definitively worth a try. I bought the book for my friends and my family.

Dave.


----------



## zylon

^^ way to go Dave ^^

The wheat-free choice is easier when one suffers from the consequences of consuming wheat.

Geoff Meeker writes:


> And then, the big moment. On the morning of my seventh wheat-free day, I got out of bed and walked halfway across the room when it hit me: my knees were not hurting. I walked up the stairs, lifting my knees high. There was no pain. I crouched down, bending at the knees. Still no soreness. It was gone.
> 
> That was five weeks ago. The pain is still absent. I’ve got my life back. The change is not just observable, it is transformational. I have not taken a pain killer since. Not even one.
> 
> (...)
> 
> And the weird thing is, I don’t miss wheat. Just a few months ago I would be drawn almost hypnotically – especially at breakfast and lunchtime – to bread, buns, bagels and cereal. Now, I just don’t think about it. I don’t nibble as much between meals. I eat when I am truly hungry. I really think wheat stimulated food cravings.
> 
> I consider myself a critical thinker, casting a skeptical eye on all supposedly ground-breaking health discoveries, but there is no doubt in my mind about this one: removing wheat from my diet has changed my life.


Full article here: http://www.thetelegram.com/Blog-Article/b/22730/Wheat-Free


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## zylon

*Book Summary: Wheat Belly by William Davis, MD*

Lisa writes:


> For those that would love to read this book, but don’t have the time … I’ve summarized it for you! Some very interesting information indeed!
> 
> http://thehealingproject.us/2012/09/22/book-summary-wheat-belly-by-william-davis-md/


Further to *Chapter 8*: _Dropping Acid: Wheat As The Great pH Disrupter_;
there's a very useful *Acid/Alkaline* foods list here:

http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/acid_alkaline_foods_list.html


----------



## zylon

*Modern wheat a "perfect, chronic poison," doctor says*

Snip:


> Asked if the farming industry could change back to the grain it formerly produced, Davis said it could, but it would not be economically feasible because it yields less per acre. However, Davis said a movement has begun with people turning away from wheat - and dropping substantial weight.
> 
> "If three people lost eight pounds, big deal," he said. "But we're seeing hundreds of thousands of people losing 30, 80, 150 pounds. Diabetics become no longer diabetic; people with arthritis having dramatic relief. People losing leg swelling, acid reflux, irritable bowel syndrome, depression, and on and on every day."
> 
> To avoid these wheat-oriented products, Davis suggests eating "real food," such as avocados, olives, olive oil, meats, and vegetables. "(It's) the stuff that is least likely to have been changed by agribusiness," he said. "Certainly not grains. When I say grains, of course, over 90 percent of all grains we eat will be wheat, it's not barley... or flax. It's going to be wheat.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505269_162-57505149/modern-wheat-a-perfect-chronic-poison-doctor-says/


Dr Davis's blog: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/


----------



## Jim9guitars

I had a chance to browse through a copy of the South Beach Diet book recently and it is on board with the no wheat idea too. The rest of the what I saw was similar to a lot of the fad diets but the wheat thing was new to me. I do eat pretty carefully, almost no sugar and very little salt but I love a good whole wheat bread. I have found a brand that is made from sprouted grains and has no sugar but now I have to question even that......, and the "selection" brand sold in various Ontario grocery stores has a trail mix granola that has no sugar or salt, just almonds, cashews, raisins, sunflower and pumpkin seeds and I love it. The South Beach author based his wheat theory on his belief that we have only been consuming wheat for the last couple thousand years, before that people didn't eat breads and for all those milennia were healthier. Apologies if this has been covered here, I haven't had time to read through all 19 pages.


----------



## zylon

*~ off topic*

Is Coconut Oil REALLY Healthy? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOBuAe1IVRM



> Joseph M. Mercola is an alternative physician practicing in Hoffman Estates, Illinois.
> He is the author of several books including The No-Grain Diet, and The Great Bird Flu Hoax. ~Wikipedia
> Born: July 8, 1954 (age 58)


----------



## Berubeland

Kind of strange experience I had with a low carb diet. My hubby had very high blood pressure and his Dr kept telling him to lose weight, suggested South Beach. So we did the induction phase all in all for 4-6 weeks. 

My hubby dropped 20 lbs within a month now he's losing about 1 pond per week as we added back carbs (And undertook a kitchen reno and ate out a lot) 

Then a few weeks later we transitioned to a more Atkins style diet. 

As far as I can tell most of these diets are very similar in that they allow unlimited low carb veggies and proteins. You can't really have wheat because it's too high carb

On all these diets i did not lose one pound. So I ended up very confused. My hubby's mood improved a lot as well on the diet. I actually enjoyed the diet a lot.It's close to how I already eat, I was very disappointed and to be honest felt pretty ripped off. I was doing all the cooking lol. 

Any hints or tips?


----------



## brad

Jim9guitars said:


> The South Beach author based his wheat theory on his belief that we have only been consuming wheat for the last couple thousand years, before that people didn't eat breads and for all those milennia were healthier.


That doesn't really make sense, though, because life expectancy today is probably at least twice what it was two thousand years ago, so I'm not sure you can say (or if we even know) that people were "healthier" 2,000 years ago. The other issue is that in the 1800s the consumption of wheat in the United States was about twice what it is today but there was no obesity epidemic. 

For thousands of years, most people didn't live long enough to develop diseases that typically appear later in life, such as cancer and heart disease. There are many reasons why these diseases are more prevalent today, but one of the reasons is that people are living longer so the risk of them developing a "later in life condition" is greater.


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## brad

Berubeland said:


> On all these diets i did not lose one pound. So I ended up very confused. My hubby's mood improved a lot as well on the diet. I actually enjoyed the diet a lot.It's close to how I already eat, I was very disappointed and to be honest felt pretty ripped off.


It's probably genetics. Clearly some people are much more sensitive to carbohydrates than others. Many Asian people live on a very high-carb diet (some poor families subsist almost entirely on white rice) without gaining weight, for example. I've had no trouble losing weight on traditional low-fat high-carb diets, whereas many people have no luck with that approach. 

There are many factors that contribute to weight loss and weight gain, and it's almost impossible to isolate a single cause or contributor. Genetics, diet, activity, environment..everything interacts and plays a role.


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## Jim9guitars

brad said:


> That doesn't really make sense, though, because life expectancy today is probably at least twice what it was two thousand years ago, so I'm not sure you can say (or if we even know) that people were "healthier" 2,000 years ago.



My thoughts exactly, that's why I posted that statement to see what reactions it got here.


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## Karen

I was quite active early in this thread, but I thought I'd said everything I had to say and haven't been keeping up on it more recently. However, I've just reread the whole thread and thought I'd update you on my experience. Keep in mind that, as a type 2 diabetic who successfully manages my blood glucose levels with a low-carb diet (about 40 grams of carbs per day) - no medications and no insulin), I am not suggesting that non-diabetics should be as extreme as I am about low-carbing, but I am convinced that everyone would benefit from reducing their carb intake significantly. I'm also convinced that ALL diabetics should follow a low-carb diet.

It is now nearly 11 years since I ate a slice of bread, a potato, or any other food that contains carbohydrates, with the exception of vegetables that are low in both sugars and starch (e.g. salad greens, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, green beans, brussel sprouts, turnips, summer squash such as zucchini and spaghetti squash - *NO* grains, potatoes, yams, peas, carrots, rice, winter squash or fruits except for small servings of berries). I don't drink milk because of the high sugar content (lactose), but I eat a lot of other milk products (many forms of cheese, lots of high-fat cream (poured over fresh raspberries and strawberries, in custards, cream soups, homemade ice-cream and other desserts). I eat lots of eggs, and any kind of meat and fish. I use a lot of almond flour and coconut flour in baking; there are many good websites with recipes for both, and I can highly recommend two of my more recent acquisitions in low-carb/gluten-free cookbooks. They are _Low-Carbing Among Friends, Volume 1_ and _Low-Carbing Among Friends, Volume 2_; I believe both are available from Amazon.com.

In answer to a question someone asked earlier, I noticed many improvements to my general health since I began eating low-carb, in addition to maintaining excellent blood glucose levels. My fingernails stopped cracking, my gums stopped bleeding, and my energy level and general sense of well-being increased significantly. After 15 years as a diabetic, I have no diabetic complications. Of course I miss some of my favourite foods from the past, but that is definitely not the same thing as craving them. The cravings disappeared many years ago, and I have absolutely no problem in avoiding those foods.

I must admit that I've told my daughters that if I'm ever in the hospital and they're told I'm dying, they are to bring me a dozen Tim Horton's glazed doughnuts and I'll die happy!


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## brad

Karen said:


> *NO* grains, potatoes, yams, peas, carrots, rice, winter squash or fruits except for small servings of berries).


I agree that there's strong evidence to support the notion that diabetics will benefit from a low-carb diet, but some of your avoidances above might be based on misleading information. Carrots, for example, have a high glycemic index but a low glycemic load, which means you'd have to eat a lot of carrots (about a pound and a half of sliced carrots) to get 50 grams of carbohydrate. If you look at carrots from the perspective of glycemic load, which is what matters from a diabetic perspective, their sugar content is even lower than that of lentils (and lower than that of turnips). Peas and winter squash also have about the same glycemic load as lentils, which is also lower than that of turnips. There's no good reason to avoid them. Potatoes and sweet potatoes, on the other hand, make sense to avoid if you're diabetic.

The glycemic index is more of a laboratory measure and was never meant to be used as the basis for diet, whereas glycemic load was developed specifically to help guide food choices. There's a useful chart here: http://www.mendosa.com/common_foods.htm


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## Karen

Brad, I follow the dietary recommendations of a book called "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution" written by Dr. Richard K. Bernstein, a doctor and endocrinologist who has been a type 1 diabetic since he was 12 years old. He is now nearly 80 and is still practicing medicine full-time. Dr. Bernstein has very strict guidelines as to foods that are acceptable for diabetics and those that are not; carrots and peas are on the forbidden list (so are legumes). You may well be right; it's entirely possible that Dr. B is a bit extreme in his recommendations, but they work for him - he says most people who were diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at his age have been dead for many years, and his health is excellent. I have become so accustomed to eating his way that I don't find it difficult at all, so I'll continue to perhaps err on the side of being too cautious and stick to his guidelines.

Dr. Bernstein is very critical of the glycemic index and explains why in detail in his book. He doesn't comment on the glycemic load. I have seen David Mendosa's chart before, as I subscribe to his newsletter. David is, by the way, a fan and a friend of Dr. Bernstein's and follows his diet fairly closely, although I don't believe he is quite as strict about it as I am. Mendosa has always spoken highly of Dr. B, but in recent years has become more of an advocate for him.

Thanks for your thoughts, Brad.


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## humble_pie

i'm just a bystander on this thread - a guilty pastry wheat flour crumb if you please - but i can't help but be impressed & thrilled by Karen's history. First of all, the patient who mastered & controlled her illness down to zero. Next, the diabetic who proceeded onwards to 100% normal test readings, which sounds almost like a fairytale. It is really inspiring to read this. Félicitations Karen !

if you happen to pass by here i would love to read again about your almond flour, Karen. As i recall you bake 100% with almond flour, you had a source that was not too expensive, you might even have had some recipes. I didn't take notes when you posted your info more than a year ago but would be grateful for any "crumbs" that might surface now. I'd especially love any favourite fruit pie or fruit cobbler recipe you might have. As you know, traditional pies are not only made with wheat flour pastry but their fruit fillings are usually thickened with cornstarch, ouf.

Q for the experts: how does quinoa rate for those who are avoiding wheat ? theoretically it should be acceptable, but i don't see it on Karen's list of approved foods.


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## Toronto.gal

I take my hat off as well, to those folks that have the discipline [for health or dietary reasons], to avoid eating so many items that I can't imagine resisting, like bread/doughnuts/pasta/pizza.

As I love coconut, I do bake with c. flour quite often; I love almond, too!

Some recipes to get you started HP until Karen wakes up. 
http://pinterest.com/heiditrejo/coconut-almond-flour-recipes-or-gluten-free/


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## humble_pie

Toronto.gal said:


> As I love coconut, I do bake with c. flour quite often; I love almond, too!
> 
> Some recipes to get you started HP until Karen wakes up.
> 
> http://pinterest.com/heiditrejo/coconut-almond-flour-recipes-or-gluten-free/


thankx ! i bookmarked the site but won't you please stop with sights so fabulously delicious at such an early hour of the morning ... like alcoholic beverages, divinely tempting dessert treats should not be offered until the sun is over the yardarm imho each:


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## Toronto.gal

Then stop asking for recipes b4 the markets open even. :rolleyes2:

For a lil morning snack, here are some colourful macarons aux amandes et aux pistaches, hmmmm, to die 4!


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## Karen

Toronto.gal, I was delighted to wake up to your low-carb recipe website; it's one I hadn't discovered yet, and I've spent a couple of hours perusing it and printing out some recipes. I'm going to make the Coconut Flour "Tortillas" for supper tonight!

humble_pie, almond flour (also referred to as almond meal) is very expensive no matter where you buy it, but it's worth it to me; I buy it in bulk (25 pounds) online from Bob's Red Mill (www.bobsredmill.com), but there are many other places you can buy it from - google it. Someone told me there's a Canadian source to buy it in bulk, so I'll be looking into that as the shipping costs are pretty awful from the U.S. You can buy one-pound bags at many regular grocery stores and health-food stores, but it's a lot more expensive that way. You can also grind your own blanched almonds if you're not too lazy (as I am!). Coconut flour is less expensive but still not cheap by any means.

One thing that I've had to accept is that some things simply aren't as tasty as they were when made with wheat flour, but many are. I have never discovered a really good pie crust, unfortunately. Some single-crust pies can be made with an almond meal lower crust (lemon pie, for example) but I don't like it with other fillings. I've given up on pumpkin pie and just make the pumpkin pie filling as a pudding without a crust. I use a regular pumpkin pie recipe but substitute artificial sweetener for sugar and cream instead of milk.

Here's one of my favourite dessert recipes for a special occasion dessert - it's delicious! I adapted it from a pre-diabetes recipe, basically substituting the original graham-cracker crust with an almond-meal crust and replacing the sugar with an artificial sweetener.

*Raspberry Delight*

Crust:

1 ½ to 2 c almond meal (ground almonds) depending on the size of your springform pan ( I use 2 cups)

6 or 7 tbsp melted butter or enough to make the almond meal stick together

Mix thoroughly. Pat into the bottom of an 8 or 9 inch springform pan and bake at 300 F for about 10 minutes or until golden brown. Put in fridge to cool while you continue with the next layer.

Filling:

12 oz (1 1/2 packages) cream cheese, softened in microwave
3/4 c Splenda (I just used 1/2 cup)
1 tsp vanilla extract (I used 2 tsp because I like lots of vanilla)
1/4 tsp salt
2 c of whipped cream 

In a mixing bowl, beat cream cheese, Splenda, vanilla, and salt until smooth. (Just a fork is fine - you don't need to use a beater.) Fold in whipped cream. Spread over crust and refrigerate until topping is ready.

Topping:

2 packages sugar-free raspberry Jello
2 c boiling water
2 10-oz packages of unsweetened frozen raspberries (I couldn't find this size of unsweetened berries; I used 1 1/2 packages of Western Family frozen unsweetened raspberries. I don't recommend using fresh berries because then the amount of water would be off.)

Dissolve jello in boiling water; stir in raspberries. Chill for a few minutes or until mixture begins to thicken. (I found that it thickened very quickly because the berries were frozen when I added them.) Spread over filling. Refrigerate until set, preferably overnight.


I have lots of good recipes, but I don't think I should clog up this thread with them. Please pm me with your email address if you'd like some more.


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## Karen

humble_pie, I forgot to answer your question about quinoa. It depends on why you are avoiding wheat. I don't eat quinoa because it's too high in carbohydrates, but if you're avoiding wheat because of the gluten content (i.e. you have either celiac disease or some other gluten intolerance), quinoa can be fine as long as you're sure it hasn't been contaminated by being processed in machinery that is also used to process grains that contain gluten - make sure it's labelled "gluten free."


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## Four Pillars

Karen said:


> I have lots of good recipes, but I don't think I should clog up this thread with them. Please pm me with your email address if you'd like some more.


If you think there is interest, you can always just start your own thread and post the recipes there.


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## humble_pie

karen thank you so much !

i was thrilled to see that the raspberry delight seems to be a cheesecake. The most favourite dessert at our house.

what i'm going to do is get the smaller amount of almond meal you mention at the health food store & try this recipe.

the idea of a thread devoted to these special recipes seems like a fine idea. Might you consider it ? It would be Karen's Gift, in the way that the main recipe thread up above was Brad's Gift for all the months that he did it.

one thing i loved about Brad's Gift when it was active is that there was only one recipe a week, always on mondays. Brad would put em up early in the morning. What an uplifting way to start the trading week.

i'm saying this about one recipe a week because that's all i can possibly work into my life, cooking-wise. When i see pages covered with many recipes, i sort of smile in a glazed way & move along promptly to something more scaleable.

again, many thanks for the terrific info.

.


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## zylon

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...to-help-you-kick-your-addictions.aspx?np=true

- via Twitter @mercola


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## zylon

*off topic - calcium*

Snip:


> Your body not only depends on nutrients in the food you eat, but is actually composed -- atom-by-atom, molecule-by-molecule – by them, which is why we should not be surprised by the profound power that certain nutrients and food constituents have in supporting optimal health.
> 
> One of them, calcium, is an old-standby in many people's supplement stashes, but new research suggests this is one nutrient you're better off getting from food sources.
> 
> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...urmeric-and-resveratrol-benefits.aspx?np=true


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## PuckiTwo

*Bulk Almond Flour in Canada*



Karen said:


> I buy it in bulk (25 pounds) online from Bob's Red Mill (www.bobsredmill.com), but there are many other places you can buy it from - google it. Someone told me there's a Canadian source to buy it in bulk, so I'll be looking into that as the shipping costs are pretty awful from the U.S.


*Karen / Humble:* you can get Bulk Almond Flour at the "Bulk Barn", a company in Ontario with stores all over Canada. http://www.bulkbarn.ca/en-ca/locations.html?Province=1. Unfortunately, there are only 4 stores in BC. Karen, they may be able to ship it to you if you order enough. Ontarians and Quebeckers should not have any problems, there are enough stores. 
Bulk Barn is an interesting store, don't be turned off by their cheap looking logo and website, astoundingly, they have a large array of natural foods and nutritional supplements. But unhealthy stuff too. Don't know if all the stores have the same products. Best thing is to go there and see for yourself.


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## Karen

Thanks for that information, PuckiTwo - I'll look into that for sure!


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## zidane

Karen, thanks for sharing your diet and overall experience with this low-carb diet. 

I've been on a low-carb diet for the past 2 weeks and I feel healthier overall. I find that I'm less hungry than usual and my energy levels higher. I really can't believe how these so-called experts have told us for years that saturated fat is bad for us. The fact is there is no evidence linking bad cholesterol or heart disease with animal fat.

I highly recommend everyone watch _Fat Head_. It's a documentary debunking conventional wisdom on healthy eating and diet. To prove that carbs are the main culprits of weight gain, he eats junk food for 30 days and, yes, he loses weight.

Just to share, this is what I eat every morning.
-3 to 4 strips of bacon
-5 large eggs (using the bacon grease)
-2 slices of smoked wild sockeye salmon
-1 coffee with whip cream

as opposed to my old diet
-2 eggs
-2 whole wheat toast w/ butter
-1 coffee


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## brad

zidane said:


> I highly recommend everyone watch _Fat Head_. It's a documentary debunking conventional wisdom on healthy eating and diet. To prove that carbs are the main culprits of weight gain, he eats junk food for 30 days and, yes, he loses weight.


On the other hand, a couple of years ago a doctor lost 27 pounds in two months on a junk-food diet in which 2/3 of his calories came from refined carbohydrates: the so-called Twinkie Diet. If carbs are the main culprit, how could someone lose almost 30 pounds by eating mostly carbohydrates? There's a good discussion here: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2010/11/twinkie-diet-for-fat-loss.html


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## Karen

I just read this quote on my low-carb diabetes website. I thought it was worth repeating so, even though it's not quite on topic, I'm posting it here:

“People are fed by the FOOD industry, which pays no attention to HEALTH… and are treated by the HEALTH industry, which pays no attention to FOOD.”


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## Hawkdog

zidane said:


> Karen, thanks for sharing your diet and overall experience with this low-carb diet.
> 
> I've been on a low-carb diet for the past 2 weeks and I feel healthier overall. I find that I'm less hungry than usual and my energy levels higher. I really can't believe how these so-called experts have told us for years that saturated fat is bad for us. The fact is there is no evidence linking bad cholesterol or heart disease with animal fat.
> 
> I highly recommend everyone watch _Fat Head_. It's a documentary debunking conventional wisdom on healthy eating and diet. To prove that carbs are the main culprits of weight gain, he eats junk food for 30 days and, yes, he loses weight.
> 
> Just to share, this is what I eat every morning.
> -3 to 4 strips of bacon
> -5 large eggs (using the bacon grease)
> -2 slices of smoked wild sockeye salmon
> -1 coffee with whip cream
> 
> as opposed to my old diet
> -2 eggs
> -2 whole wheat toast w/ butter
> -1 coffee


Thats an expensive breakfast! I hope you have chickens in the backyard!
I haven't seen Fat Head, but how does it line up to SuperSize Me - where the guy's health goes down the tube eating Mcdonald's everyday?

My dad ate bacon and eggs everyday for breakfast, with the occasional bowl cornflakes and whipping cream (real stuff we lived on a ranch) - he died of colon cancer at 75. Didn't drink or smoke. Hardly ever ate fast food - we lived 45 mins from town.

What we have found is that we just cut down our portions, and voila! weight loss!


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## Hawkdog

Karen have you tried the Cloud Nine Flour? I have tried to order but they did send it!!



Karen said:


> humble_pie, I forgot to answer your question about quinoa. It depends on why you are avoiding wheat. I don't eat quinoa because it's too high in carbohydrates, but if you're avoiding wheat because of the gluten content (i.e. you have either celiac disease or some other gluten intolerance), quinoa can be fine as long as you're sure it hasn't been contaminated by being processed in machinery that is also used to process grains that contain gluten - make sure it's labelled "gluten free."


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## Karen

I haven't tried Cloud Nine Flour, Hawkdog, but I'll certainly look it up.

I haven't seen Supersize Me either, but it always annoys me when I read about the various studies that claim to have proven that junk food diets cause weight gain. They usually concentrate on things like hamburgers, hotdogs, french fries, pizza, etc. and claim that it's the high fat content that causes the weight gain, ignoring the fact that all those things are also extremely high in carbs. I rarely eat in fast food restaurants because of my very restrictive diet, but when I do I order a hamburger or cheeseburger with no bun and that works fine. They serve it on a plate with lettuce, tomato, cheese, and bacon and I eat it with a knife and fork.

Zidane, how are doing with your low-carb diet? Your breakfast menu sounds perfectly appropriate low-carb meal, but I couldn't begin to eat that much in a meal - it would probably last me at least three breakfasts!


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## Hawkdog

here is the link to cloud nine bakery:
http://www.cloud9specialtybakery.com/

The Supersize Me Movie wasn't so much about weight gain as his liver was shutting down.


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## 6811

Listening to CBC news on the radio in the car early this morning I heard a prompt for later in the show about how to claim some kind of a tax credit if you use medical pot or have to eat gluten free. Of course I 'm out of the car long before the story begins but would like to know more about this for a close relative who is on a medically prescribed gluten-free diet. I have tried to find out more about it on the CBC website but without success, anyone else hear it? Is it real?


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## Toronto.gal

6811 said:


> tax credit if you use medical pot or have to eat gluten free.


Direct source is best.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gluten-free/


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## 6811

Toronto.gal said:


> Direct source is best.
> 
> http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gluten-free/


Who'd a thunk it  Thanks T.gal


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## Itchy54

I did know about the credit but never bothered as I do not eat alternatives (no bread, pasta, baked goods) but thought I would check out the website. Found it interesting that only celiac is covered. I am allergic, not celiac. I still cannot eat wheat, it makes me very sick....but I would not be able to claim the credit....hmmmm.


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## Synergy

Hawkdog said:


> The Supersize Me Movie wasn't so much about weight gain as his liver was shutting down.


He's body / internal organs didn't have a chance to adapt. I'm not saying it's healthy but the same can be said about exercise. The body needs time to adapt to the imposed demands / stressors. I'm not sure why the so called doctors on the show viewed the changes as surprising.


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## zylon

*John McDougall - not wheat-free*

For every "Dr" adorned with white smock, stethoscope and an opinion, there is an equally qualified "Dr" adorned with white smock, stethoscope and an opposing opinion.

John McDougall does not advocate eliminating wheat, except for celiacs and those with wheat sensitivity. This video covers so many aspects of diet that I thought it well worth the listen for anyone remotely interested in general health and well-being. The anti-commercialites can skip the last two minutes where he promotes his "Starch Solution" course.

*Paleo, Gluten Free, and GMO Distractions from Real World Food Problems*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KV2N-m4Jgo



> *John A. McDougall*
> 
> born May 17, 1947 (age 69)
> in 1965, at age 18, McDougall suffered a massive stroke, which he attributed to his high animal product diet
> since the mid-1970s, he has followed mostly a vegan diet
> the McDougall Plan – has been categorized as a fad diet that carries some disadvantages, such as a boring food choice and a risk of flatulence
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._McDougall


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## steve41

The oldest person in the world was born in Nov 1899. She lives in Northern Italy. At age 20 she was diagnosed as anaemic and prescribed a diet of eggs, red meat and whole milk. For all that time since she has 3 eggs a day (2 raw) and 100 grams of raw, minced beefsteak. Uber Paleo.


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## zylon

*not about wheat - let's call it "try not to die - yet".*

Coca-Cola's Real Message To Us ~ Dr. Bob McCauley
(4 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny8HYVtin88

*- one of Dr Bob's better moods!*


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