# Ally Is the Former ....



## Xoron (Jun 22, 2010)

I've seen the ads everywhere for Ally, as I'm sure most of you have. Didn't think much about it as I don't plan on parking cash in a high interest account (which is the product I see most often advertised by Ally).

I was quite surprised when found out that Ally is the former GMAC financing. GMAC was one of the major losers in the credit crisis and probably would have failed if not for the US Government. Just something to keep in mind when doing your due diligence on where to park your cash.


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

You are right , but ALLY ( in Canada), is covered under CDIC ( canadian deposit insurance corporation.)

What this means is that all deposits are insured by the Canadian Government up to $100,000.00 per account.


Technically, if you deposit up to $100 K in Ally, you are as safe as with any financial institution in Canada, including the big banks.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

warp said:


> You are right , but ALLY ( in Canada), is covered under CDIC ( canadian deposit insurance corporation.)
> 
> What this means is that all deposits are insured by the Canadian Government up to $100,000.00 per account.
> 
> ...


It is hard, if not impossible for depositors to look into the credit worthiness of a bank or trust before simply parking their money. For all I know, Ally could be safer than ING Direct. That's why we have CDIC coverage. As long as you stay within the $100K limit for principal + interest, we should be okay.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

The only thing is that, from what I hear, if a financial institutions fail, it can take quite some time to get your deposits back through the CDIC process. But, we very rarely have banks fail in Canada.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Has there even been a bank failure in this country that caused citizens to make use of CDIC?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdTymCZowU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1caAJ5CfU2g


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

andrewf said:


> The only thing is that, from what I hear, if a financial institutions fail, it can take quite some time to get your deposits back through the CDIC process. But, we very rarely have banks fail in Canada.


A bank hasn't failed here in recent memory but so many have in the US. Apparently, the way FDIC works, the failed bank closes for the weekend and opens Monday under new ownership. Often, the depositors don't even have a clue that their bank went under. I'd be very surprised if CDIC doesn't work along the same lines.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

remember though that ally is owned by resmor trust

so, if you have a $40K gic with resmor and then plop $75K in ally and it goes belly up, you are only insured for 100K and would lose $15K

it's my understanding that resmor is going to disappear and then only ally will be left


> A bank hasn't failed here in recent memory but so many have in the US. Apparently, the way FDIC works, the failed bank closes for the weekend and opens Monday under new ownership. Often, the depositors don't even have a clue that their bank went under. I'd be very surprised if CDIC doesn't work along the same lines.


 right, i lived in the states for quite a while and that is exactly what happens, i had a bank that went under, it just stayed open, under the control of the fdic and hadn't even been bought by another bank yet which is what always happens, another bank will usually buy the failed bank ... and you can just walk in and do your business as usual


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

I think you are wrong there Fatcat.

My understanding is that CIDC insures up to $ 100K per account.
So the Resmor account is separate from the Ally account and each gets $100K protection.

You can go on Ally.ca, and they will actually give you advice on how you can split up your money around several accounts and get $100K insurance on each one.....

Thats because they want you to be able to put more than $100 K into Ally.


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

think I found it:


AcceleRate Financial AcceleRate Savings 2.20%


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> I think you are wrong there Fatcat.
> 
> My understanding is that CIDC insures up to $ 100K per account.
> So the Resmor account is separate from the Ally account and each gets $100K protection.
> ...


warp, i have a bunch of gic's at ally ...yes, they are helpful and they are very good about showing you how to protect your money if you are married, there are ways, as they demonstrate to split the money and get protection

but i am referring to resmor trust and ally

ally is a subsidiary of resmor ..... many of the big banks sell resmor gic's ... so, if you have an individual account (i.e. no joint accounts) you cannot have more than 100K spread between ally and resmor

i think it's a bit of a moot point because resmor may no longer be offering gic's (i haven't had a quote for one from td in quite a while), i think resmor is going to disappear and only ally will remain

but if you are an individual and have a 50K gic with resmor, and you buy a 75K gic from ally, you are only insured for 100K (i.e. 25K is uninsured)

note that i am not talking about using different account types at ally which can get you well over 100K if you are a couple (i am single)

for the purposes of cdic coverage resmor and ally give 100K total per individual

does that make sense ?


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

Ally is just the name of the products. The deposit taking institution is ResMor Trust. As fatcat mentions, ResMor GICs are available at many discount brokers. So, the total of all deposits in different categories (jointly owned, RRSP etc.) with ResMor should not total more than $100,000.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Two small, western Canadian based banks failed in the mid '80's. Advanced age seems to have erased their names from my memory. This cost CDIC a lot which they got by raising premiums on the other big banks.


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## cardhu (May 26, 2009)

fatcat, warp, and cc ... You’re all partly wrong and partly right ... 

Ally isn’t a subsidiary of Resmor ... it is a “product” of Resmor ... not the same thing ... a subsidiary would be a separate legal entity and would have to get its own separate CDIC coverage, if it qualified ... for example, the following subsidiaries of Scotiabank each has their own separate CDIC coverage ... 

•	Bank of Nova Scotia (parent)
•	Scotia Mortgage Corporation (subsidiary)
•	Dundee Bank of Canada (subsidiary)
•	Maple Trust Company (subsidiary)
•	Montreal Trust Company of Canada (subsidiary)
•	National Trust Company (subsidiary)

And each of the major banks has a similar list of half-a-dozen or so subsidiary institutions, each of which carries its own separate CDIC coverage. Since Ally is not a subsidiary, but only a product, it is protected under Resmor’s coverage ... therefore, $50k deposited at Resmor, with $75k at Ally, would indeed exceed the $100k limit, leaving $25k exposed.

CDIC coverage is not per account, per se... you could have $1million spread between 10 separate accounts, including brokerage accounts at other institutions, and still only be covered for the $100k... however, different account types (ie. RRSP, TFSA, and others) are eligible for separate coverage, separate individuals within a household are eligible for their own separate coverage, and a joint account is considered a separate individual ... so a married couple could, in theory, have more than $700k covered, at a single institution ... I say “in theory” because although the TFSA is covered up to a maximum of $100k, the contribution limits would make it difficult to reach that balance in the account with the sorts of deposits that are eligible. So a couple might face a practical limit of about $520k at Resmor/Ally, if we adjust for the TFSA contribution limits available to date.

A single person would face a practical limit of something like $210k coverage at Ally/Resmor ... so if a single person held a $50k Resmor GIC in an RRSP, and $75k in a non-registered Ally account, the entire $125k would be covered.


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## Maltese (Apr 22, 2009)

the-royal-mail said:


> Has there even been a bank failure in this country that caused citizens to make use of CDIC?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdTymCZowU
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1caAJ5CfU2g



I've had money in smaller banks that have failed over the years and always got my money back from CDIC. The names of the banks are long forgotten but I do recall that getting my money took some time but was a simple process.


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> Ally is just the name of the products. The deposit taking institution is ResMor Trust. As fatcat mentions, ResMor GICs are available at many discount brokers. So, the total of all deposits in different categories (jointly owned, RRSP etc.) with ResMor should not total more than $100,000.


To complicate things further, Resmor Trust in turn is owned by GMAC. But Resmor Trust has to operate under CDN rules for financial institutions, so GMAC's credit problems should not affect Resmor Trust - except to the extent that they might or might not sell it off to another investor.

An article in the Globe year ago said: "Meantime, GMAC is in the process of getting regulatory approval to convert ResMor Trust into a bank under the Ally name.". But it doesn't look as though they have accomplished it yet.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

OhGreatGuru said:


> An article in the Globe year ago said: "Meantime, GMAC is in the process of getting regulatory approval to convert ResMor Trust into a bank under the Ally name."


so that all deposits can be covered under CDIC?


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## cardhu (May 26, 2009)

HaroldCrump said:


> so that all deposits can be covered under CDIC?


Which deposits are you referring to, that aren't currently covered?


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## warp (Sep 4, 2010)

I have always known that ALLY was"owned" by Resmor Trust/GMAC.
Several posters have now said that Ally is a "product" of Resmor.

I have money sitting in Ally.......and in some other HISA accounts.

Thats the simple solution......I never intended to buy any Resmor Trust products anyway, but its always good to keep up to date.

Even simpler...tomorrow, if I remember, I will call CDIC and get the correct answer ( assuming they are better than CRA.....who gives you the wrong info regularly...Im sometimes stunned at how unknowledgable some of their staff is, althoughthey are usually pleasant)

A bigger problem is I wish someone will tell me when we will get this "correction" I"ve been waiting for, so I can put some of this money to work!

Thanks for the heads up, to all.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

cardhu said:


> Which deposits are you referring to, that aren't currently covered?


I figured they are attempting a conversion from a trust to a bank to get more CDIC coverage.
I may be wrong about this though. Deposits in a trust and a bank may have the same CDIC protection.
I believe in the US, trusts that are regulated by the state don't have FDIC coverage - only the coverage that the particular state provides.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

the ally / cdic discussion has acquired an almost mythical status

go here: http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/forum/ally/new-sheriff-in-townallyca

and you will see months worth of posts back and forth arguing and wondering whether ally is actually covered by cdic (they are) but they have really dropped the ball on informing the public on just exactly what the relationship is between ally, resmor and gmac and where cdic coverage starts and ends

i have a bunch of money at ally in gic's and they have told me that resmor is in the process of dissolving as a trust and all operations will be folded into ally bank ... i have'nt heard of any new gic's being sold by resmor, has anyone else ?

i have found them to be excellent, fast and easy to deal with

needless to say, i hope they stick around !


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Also, isn't Ally/GMAC/ResMor one of the banks involved in that large scale foreclosure fraud down in the US (alongwith BoA, etc.)?
That whole circus is just starting to unravel.
These guys have dirty hands and dirty feet - who cares whether they are CDIC insured or not.

We haven't had a large bank failure in Canada in recent history so no one knows what the aftermath would be like, and how long it might take to get your money back.

Is an extra 1% interest worth the risk?


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Good point Harold! Food for thought.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

My understanding is this. Ally (the online bank) is just a brand name of ResMor Trust, which in turn is a subsidiary of what used to be known as GMAC Financial Services of Canada (GMACFS has recently renamed itself Ally Credit Canada), and that in turn is presumably a subsidiary of some sort of the old US GMAC (now Ally Financial), the people that would have been involved in the US mortgage mess.

ResMor was Canadian and uninvolved in the US market, and wasn't even part of GMAC until late 2007. It is federally regulated by the Canadian system (OSFI), which would have to be satisfied its books were sound. There would also be the extra corporate layer of GMACFS in Canada before you got to the US operations. Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about Ally, and currently have a big chunk parked there temporarily while I'm redoing my finances - I prudently stay under the $100,000 CDIC limit, of course . If a person wanted to shun Ally on principle because its corporate grandparent was a TARP welfare case, that's a valid decision too.

Don't forget even ING was a milder version of this sort of situation. The Dutch parent bank took stabilization money from the Dutch government, but the Canadian operation is a separate set of books and likely wasn't affected too significantly.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

Does anyone have anything to add to the this thread? I am considering Ally


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

leoc2 said:


> Doe anyone have anything to add to the this thread? I am considering Ally


I've been with them for almost a year, no issues so far.


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## Maltese (Apr 22, 2009)

leoc2 said:


> Doe anyone have anything to add to the this thread? I am considering Ally



I have an Ally account but have transferred most of my money elsewhere. Ally intially had higher rates on GICs than other financial institutions but this didn't last. Now their rates have nose-dived so I'm no longer interested in Ally.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

^ The same thing happened with PC a few years ago.

Great, high rates, then one year later -- Boom. Rates are at the floor.


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## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Ah, the old 'bait and switch' scheme is alive and well!!

It's NOT the right thing to do!!


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

I only bank with TD and BMO.

But in my honest opinion, if you want a HISA - go with ING.

At least ING is well known, they will ALWAYS have a high rate and they've been around for a bit.

Also, consider that ING does not have a lot of advertisements, yet everyone knows their slogan and their presence.

Ally is all over the place with the whole "Even kids know..." and "Its just the right thing to do".

I never see an ING Direct ad, but I still know the slogan is "ING Direct; Save your money."


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Ally is all over the place with the whole "Even kids know..." and "Its just the right thing to do".


Those ads were really creative and catchy when they were introduced. They have been overused way beyond their "best before" date! Kind of makes you think that way about Ally Bank.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> I only bank with TD and BMO.
> 
> But in my honest opinion, if you want a HISA - go with ING.
> 
> "


I already have an ING account. I was just looking for an alternative.


KaeJS as you are a BMO employee. Can I pick your brain?

My wife and I have 4 BMO investorline accounts. My RRSP, her RRSP, her TFSA, and her non registered. What level of government protection (similar to CDIC) do we have?


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

You can get 1.2% (recently down from 1.35%) from most of the Big5 banks in their sorta-HISA accounts (although they have assorted balance and transfer problems). At 1.5%, ING's "high" rate isn't a huge improvement - I'm pretty sure their spread over the Big5 sorta-HISAs has declined the last couple years; to be expected as their need for a premium to attract customers has decreased.

Canadian Tire has been the one that's really yo-yo'd - they were top of the CDIC market, then down at ING levels last year for a while before working their way back to midrange and now 2% top-end again.

I'm not sure what the complaint is about Ally's rates. They are at the top end of CDIC institutions for savings (2%) and GICs (2.75% for 5 years) - if you want better rates you have to go to non-CDIC credit unions (Hubert at 2.5% HISA is the current leader).

@leoc - I've got my primary banking at TD, but for any cash parking above basic minimums I use the best alternatives I can find. I've still got a chunk at Ally (although I've also got a Hubert account). No problems, the interface is fairly slick, easy to connect multiple external accounts. No RRSP or chequing products, if that's a factor.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

leoc2 said:


> KaeJS as you are a BMO employee. Can I pick your brain?
> 
> My wife and I have 4 BMO investorline accounts. My RRSP, her RRSP, her TFSA, and her non registered. What level of government protection (similar to CDIC) do we have?


All funds must be in Canadian dollars, payable in the country of Canada, and must not be in a term of more than five years. Mutual Funds, Stocks, Bonds and T-Bills are not CDIC Insured. Example:

-U.S. Funds in a Non-Reg Investorline account will not be eligible.
-A GIC with a term of 10 years to Maturity in an RRSP will also not be eligible.
-Stocks owned within a TFSA, CAD or USD, are not eligible.

Your RRSP: $100k Insurance
Your Wife's RRSP: $100k Insurance
Wife's TFSA: $100k Insurance
Wife's Non-Reg: $100K Insurance


Between the both of you, you have $400k insurance,_ assuming _that there was at least $100k in each of the above accounts, all accounts are in Canadian funds, investments in these accounts are savings or term deposits only (no stocks, bonds, mutual funds, tbills) and there are no terms to maturity over 5 years.

And if I'm not mistaken, debentures of any kind are also not CDIC Insured.

By the looks of things, because you say they are "InvestorLine" accounts, these accounts are all probably tied in with stocks, in which case, they would not be covered under CDIC.

As for insurance outside of CDIC, I'm not sure if there would be any.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

> Doe anyone have anything to add to the this thread? I am considering Ally


 i have been with ally for about a year and half or so and i couldn't be happier ... they are incredibly responsive .. great web interface .. very flexible ... easy to move money in and out ... why keep it in a brokerage at 0% when you can keep it in ally for 2% and have it in your brokerage account in a couple of days ?



> Great, high rates, then one year later -- Boom. Rates are at the floor.


 this is what happens, they get funded and then don't need the money and start to lower their rates


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

fatcat said:


> why keep it in a brokerage at 0% when you can keep it in ally for 2% and have it in your brokerage account in a couple of days ?


Cause sometimes a couple days is too late!!!


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

fatcat said:


> why keep it in a brokerage at 0% when you can keep it in ally for 2% and have it in your brokerage account in a couple of days


I personally use MIP510 and MIP710 to park cash at ~1.3% in my brokerage account. They are 'money market like' mutual fund, google them for more info. Rate is crap but its better than 0%


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

Hey larry, can you buy those money market funds with small dollar amounts? I'm talking like $150, and then keep adding small amounts when I get dividends. Don't want the cash sitting in my trading TFSA doing nothing until January.


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

I believe there is a $1000 minimum purchase on CDIC funds like MIP710. For $150 the annual interest would only be couple of bucks. Is there any reason you can't transfer the cash out to Ally or Hubert or someplace?


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## Argonaut (Dec 7, 2010)

I know it's only a couple bucks annually, but it's more the principle of every single dollar being put to work. And whenever dividends are added they can just join the money market fund. Not really interested in withdrawing to put in a savings account, would like to keep it simple by contributing $5000 even every year. Of course buying the fund for small dollar amounts goes against the simplicity, but still..

EDIT: Questrade seems to charge $9.95 for mutual fund purchases, so obviously this won't be worth it at all.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks to all who replied.

Insurance for our BMO investorline accounts is through CIPF.

http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/protect-your-deposits-cdic-and-cipf-explained.htm

http://www.cipf.ca/Public/MemberDirectory/CurrentMembers.aspx

from the comments at the end of post it does not appear to be as secure as CDIC....Does anyone have any additional knowledge of CIPF? 

Thanks in advance!


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

Argonaut said:


> EDIT: Questrade seems to charge $9.95 for mutual fund purchases, so obviously this won't be worth it at all.


With TD there no fee to buy/sell 'money market' mutual funds like MIP510/MIP710, you should call Questrade and ask them


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

leoc2 said:


> Thanks to all who replied.
> 
> Insurance for our BMO investorline accounts is through CIPF.


Wow. I can see that my knowledge of the CSC has left my brain already! I remember reading about the CIPF. I should have known this.  

Sorry, leoc2.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Square Root said:


> Two small, western Canadian based banks failed in the mid '80's. Advanced age seems to have erased their names from my memory. This cost CDIC a lot which they got by raising premiums on the other big banks.


According to this article, these two banks are Northland Bank (1985) and Canadian Commercial Bank (1985).

News Article URL: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,960167,00.html


However, when I check the list of member institutions that have failed, there are forty-three listed, where the rest are trusts or mortgage companies.

http://www.cdic.ca/e/insuredWhere/history_failures.html


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

CanadianCapitalist said:


> A bank hasn't failed here in recent memory but so many have in the US. Apparently, the way FDIC works, the failed bank closes for the weekend and opens Monday under new ownership. Often, the depositors don't even have a clue that their bank went under.
> 
> I'd be very surprised if CDIC doesn't work along the same lines.



At the time of Confederation Life's failure, I recall an article talking about the that it would be a couple of weeks for those with money on deposit to be re-embursed by CDIC. This was much shorter than the time for those with insurance policies to find out if their policy was bought by another company.



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

cardhu said:


> [ ... ]
> 
> CDIC coverage is not per account, per se... you could have $1million spread between 10 separate accounts, including brokerage accounts at other institutions,
> 
> [...]



This may be fine for banks, trusts, etc. but I don't see any brokerages listed as members of CDIC. I would have expected at least Questrade listed.

If they are a member of CPIF, there is coverage but it may or may not be the same as the CDIC coverage.


Trivia: CDIC lists 43 member failures since 1967 while CPIF lists 17 since 1969.


URL-> http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/protect-your-deposits-cdic-and-cipf-explained.htm



Cheers


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

CDIC regulates and guarantees deposit-taking financial institutions ("banks") - there's no reason to expect a brokerage to be covered by them, and I don't believe they are eligible. Your cash balance at a brokerage is not a "bank deposit" - if your broker goes boom, then CPIF is responsible.

Now if you hold one of those investment instrument bank funds at your brokerage (like Manulife's MIP510 or the CIBC/Renaissance ATL5000), those _are_ CDIC-insured bank deposits. If the issuing bank goes boom, CDIC would cover that money. However, I think that technically your broker holds these sorts of funds as trustee for you as beneficiary, so it is the broker that get reimbursed. And by implication, if your broker goes boom, that money would go into the general pool of assets CPIF would use for liquidation and compensation - you only "own" the deposit in the same way that you "own" the stocks in your portfolio that are in the "street name" of the dealer. See this interesting CDIC writeup.


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## larry81 (Nov 22, 2010)

NorthernRaven said:


> if your broker goes boom, that money would go into the general pool of assets CPIF would use for liquidation and compensation - you only "own" the deposit in the same way that you "own" the stocks in your portfolio that are in the "street name" of the dealer.


This is one of the reason why i personally prefer to use a big-bank brokerage (TD in my case) instead of a boutique shop like Questrade, and i am not talking about computer glitch and 3rd world based phone-support.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Isn't it Penson that actually holds the assets for Questrade accounts?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

andrewf said:


> Isn't it Penson that actually holds the assets for Questrade accounts?


If so, Penson is not on the CDIC list either, as the P's are:

Pacific & Western Bank of Canada
Peace Hills Trust Company
Peoples Trust Company
President's Choice Bank


Bottom line seems to be that all brokers are under CPIF only.


Note that the current member link for CPIF, has both 
Questrade Inc and Penson Financial Services Canada Inc. listed.



Cheers


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## NorthernRaven (Aug 4, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> Bottom line seems to be that all brokers are under CPIF only.


From the CDIC document I linked upthread: "*Securities firms are not able to be members of CDIC*".


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

and if we are talking armageddon, the CIPF is not government backing, it is private insurance whereas CDIC is backed directly by the government of canada .... am i wrong here ?


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

NorthernRaven said:


> From the CDIC document I linked upthread: "*Securities firms are not able to be members of CDIC*".


That's what I though but missed the document and finding it explicitly stated - not that I spent a lot of time on it.


I'm also curious as to how many realised that CDIC has has to handle forty-three failures. I knew that the bank failures would be low but wasn't expecting the total number to be so high.



Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

fatcat said:


> and if we are talking armageddon, the CIPF is not government backing, it is private insurance whereas CDIC is backed directly by the government of canada .... am i wrong here ?


It is a federal Crown corporation that maintains a fund financed by member firms. If necessary, it can borrow up to a set amount from the federal gov't or the markets. 

URL:
http://www.moneyville.ca/article/526341--a-guide-to-cdic-deposit-insurance-protection


So it's more of a maybe. In good times, the member fund will handle the necessary payouts. In really bad times, then the gov't will provide the backing.



CIPF on the other hand, apparantly started as a trust, originally setup in 1969. In 2002 it became a non-share member corporation. It seems to have member support only.



Cheers


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## YVR (Sep 7, 2011)

..


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