# is Gardening really frugal?



## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

For you gardeners it ther, do you actually find it less expensive. 

I have a very small garden but have found I have spent about $200 this year. It's been pots, seeds, plants, soil, and a few tools. 

Last year was my first year, and I wasn't very successful other than my herbs. This year, I am adding some more herbs, and trying again for some vegetables. I find it time consuming but enjoy showing my kids where some food comes from, but I have to admit last year we only ended up with a bag of carrots and a bag of beets, The hail and the rabbits got everything else. 

Am I doing something wrong? Or do just expect that gardening is that much of a cost savings?


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't think it is a money-saving activity, especially at a small scale. I look at it as a way of enjoying really killer produce that can't be bought from the store (garden-fresh tomatoes can't be beat) or a way of ensuring you have fresh herbs available (which is a bit of a luxury). It is a good hobby/activity that gets you outside during the summer months and away from the screens. I would not bother with carrots, though. I have had good luck with tomatoes, zucchini, basil (make pesto), garlic, pole beans, etc.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I am growing vegetables in my back yard. We don't buy vegetables between June and November. Yeah, it saves some $ but quality is the main thing.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

I do tomatoes from seeds some years, likely cost effective but barely. Bad thing is when my produce is ready the stores are at their cheapest prices.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Agree with andrewf. At a small scale it is likely to be a hobby. That doesn't mean it is not worthwhile though if you enjoy it. Over the years we have evolved our small garden into a fairly high yield - tomatoes (~12 plants from Sweet 100's to Black Krim), Santa Anna pole beans (~29 plants), Nantes Short carrots, swiss chard, strawberries and something else (last year it was corn and golden beets) all within about 20ft x 10ft. South facing against a wall we get an extra few weeks, and with timed drip irrigation we can be away for an extended period and it is fine. In season we give away more beans, carrots and tomatoes than we can eat. Excess tomatoes get cooked into sauce we bag and freeze to be used for tomato/pizza sauce and soup base throughout the winter. It is the flavour premium that makes it all worthwhile.
We start our tomatoes and beans from seeds harvested from the prior year.


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## Russ (Mar 15, 2010)

Our backyard is pretty small so we plant only three things: tomatoes, lettuce and cucumbers. It was costly to set up our square foot gardening system, but the yield from our little gardens is excellent and the cost eventually gets spread over many years. Still, I don't think we have saved money. But for quality and flavour it can't be matched. The whole gardening thing is very therapeutic, too.

Rabbits are annoying. I live-trap them and find them a new home (which apparently is not strictly legal). Haven't figured out how to manage squirrels and racoons yet. Grrrr.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

Another sq ft gardener here. Gardening CAN be frugal, or it can be expensive. Like anything else, you pay for convenience (plants).

I have a number of perennials in my vegetable garden, that I paid for only once. "Walking" onions, asparagus, mint, chives. Others reseed themselves, such as dill, tomatoes if your season is long enough. Others you can save seed from, or use a portion of the crop for seeding the following year (garlic, peas, beans, potatoes).

At one time, I started all "long season" plants from seed, too broke to buy plants. Tomatoes and peppers especially. I did my annual flowers that way, as well. Unfortunately we moved, and our new house didn't have decent southern exposure, so I started buying plants. It cost a fortune. I am moving this year to another house that we are renovating and adding on to. The very first requirement I had in drawing up plans was numerous south-facing windows. No more buying plants.

The very first year I gardened, I ended up with numerous grocery bags in the freezer, full of Roma tomatoes, just washed and frozen, dip in hot water to slide off the skin, toss in a pot. A lot of good sauce was eaten that winter.

I am convinced a large part of my now adult kids' (still at home) healthy eating habits come from going out to the garden to create dinner. They get angry if they discover I've left something out of the garden that year.


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

I would agree that gardening would not be the best activity for frugality. Taste, there is a case.

Better, work at minimum wage.

Making your own wine Iis at least an order of magnitude more productive.

Or doing home renovations.

Do it because you enjoy it, or value the side effects like exercise or better taste. For economic reasons, almost any other activity is more productive.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Better still - combine gardening and winemaking. Last years Apple and raspberry wines are particularly good, although my mint wine needs another couple of months.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't know why it's not seen as frugal. Growing up in the 70s my parents and all the neighbours had large gardens. Some had root cellars. All canned and froze their produce, or stored it in a root cellar or cold room in the basement. We had a potato bin in our basement.

My current city has a large Italian population. Very few of them DON'T have large gardens. Each of my next-door neighbours have gardens, both producing pretty copious amounts for little work. And this is northern Ontario, with a pretty short growing season.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for the insights. My growing space is pretty small. The reason I actually started gardening here was because I decided to start composting. It's a short growing season, so I tend to spend more on plants rather than seed. 

I will continue with it because I do enjoy the results when it turns out, but I kept hearing that it saves money, and I can't figure out how.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> Thanks for the insights. My growing space is pretty small. The reason I actually started gardening here was because I decided to start composting. It's a short growing season, so I tend to spend more on plants rather than seed.
> 
> I will continue with it because I do enjoy the results when it turns out, but I kept hearing that it saves money, and I can't figure out how.


Check out winter-sowing. Works better than growing seedlings indoors or buying plants.

Also SFG is perfect for small spaces.


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## Bowzer (Feb 25, 2015)

My wife will argue that the garden saves us money, but there is just no way. But she enjoys it and it's always nice to go pick a ripe tomato when i need some fresh slices. But I acknowledge I am paying for that experience, far more than a store bought one.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Bowzer said:


> My wife will argue that the garden saves us money, but there is just no way. But she enjoys it and it's always nice to go pick a ripe tomato when i need some fresh slices. But I acknowledge I am paying for that experience, far more than a store bought one.


Not sure why this has to be the case:

- My "operational" costs for producing tomatoes are negligible. Seeds cost me $3 every 3-4 years, so $1 per year. Can't think of any other except a little water. 
- "Capital" costs for setting up 10 SQF beds were not insignificant... In the region of $1000-$1500. This includes drip irrigation as well as wood for the beds and ingredients for soil. It's a one-off cost though. 
- Savings: not having to buy veggies for a family of 4 through 5 months in a year... Let's say $200/month = $1000/year. 

This hobby pays for itself within 1-2 years.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I also don't think this is a money-saving activity....large scale, _maybe._ Treat it for what it is, a love of nature and a nice outdoor hobby


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

YMMV .... with good soil to start with, composting, buying tools for other jobs at garage sales, collecting the A/C water that running the A/C has already generated, getting the few pots I need from the trash/garage sales/end of year clearout, I can't see how my costs can be high at all. The costs of buying tasteless produce from the grocery store, particularly while the CAD is low, is high.

Some years, the local stores gave away their tomatoe plant stocks in July, which I had in pots producing until late Oct.

For me at least, large scale is not needed.


My co-worker who had crappy soil who was replacing it every year had much higher costs.


Cheers


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It doesn't make sense to have a garden around here, because local farmers set up a produce truck and tent in the parking lot of a strip mall on the end of our street.

They are selling their produce at the same time as gardens are producing, so there isn't much point to growing your own.

Having said that, people love to tend their gardens, and I think some people grow specific vegetables they can't readily purchase cheaply from local farmers.

Our landlord provides land and water for garden plots for residents, and some people use the space..........but not that many.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Since no one has spoke on behalf of the rabbits, then I will. I think it is a great idea. Just so you know, they really like alfalfa. lol.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ LOL!


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## Oldroe (Sep 18, 2009)

If only carrots worked for you. You are likely trying to do plant to much in small space. Tomatoes need 8 hrs of sun. and you can harvest the seeds for next year. Green and yellow beans you need to get a handle on what the family eats. If you plant all at same time they are ready at same time. Say six plants and then six a week later. When plants are done you can maybe plant beans 1 more time.

If not plant carrots. Ever time something ends plant carrots. When frost comes cover your carrots with 2 ft of straw and you can go out all winter and dig fresh carrots. And they are to die for.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

I say it depends on many things. How much space you have, your exposure, and what you intend on planting and eating.

Herbs probably have a good payback. They don't take much space, you don't use a whole lot, and fresh herbs are pretty pricey. Tomatoes are cheap to grow and can be heavy producers. Our plants grow to 7-8' tall and each one produces, I don't know, 20lbs of tomatoes? Zucchinis are pretty much weeds. Swiss chard is a good one as it will regrow after you harvest some. Chard isn't too cheap in the store either. We also like beets as the cheapest we've seen them is around 50c per beet (with greens). One of the veggies where you eat everything (root and leaves). Grow them all from seeds.

I don't understand the attraction of growing carrots and potatoes. So cheap in the store and best suited to gardens that are much larger.

Our garden is 6'x8' with full exposure to south, east, west and a large wall on the north so it's really ideal. Gardens in our new place will be about twice the size, which should make room for beans


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Just be aware that whether you can use seeds for next year or not depends on the variety of tomato. Only works for open-pollinated, non-hybrid varieties. 

Beans can produce non-stop till the season is over. There is no need to replant if you plant pole beans rather than bush beans. 

And space is not the same thing as sun exposure. You can plant very densely, just don't put tall plants between the sun and tomatoes.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

nobleea said:


> I don't understand the attraction of growing carrots and potatoes. So cheap in the store and best suited to gardens that are much larger.


I have never managed to purchase either carrots or potatoes that taste half as good as home-grown ones.


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## Ben1491 (Jan 13, 2012)

Best bang for the buck is garlic !
Do you use garlic for cooking ? Very expensive if you buy the locally grown one. Minimum work and rabbit proof and can store for a long time. Buy some at the local farmers market (do not buy those imported one from super markets). Get a bag of manure, dig in and plant them around November. You'll harvest them around August ! My garlic at my garden has already grown around 12" tall now.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

It's better to buy seed garlic, then you get a choice of varieties/flavours/size, etc... From year 2 you can just use your own garlic for seed. I use my compost rather than manure - works great but I am sure manure would work just as well.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Like anything else, you get better the longer you do it. With your experience you should be able to do better this year in terms of yield and costs will be lower since you already have so much you won't need to buy many things.

I used to grow plants from seed bought at the hardware store or dollar store, planted in dollar store styrofoam cups and let grow in my kitchen window. I never figured up the cost but it must have been a few pennies compared to $1.79 or $2.79 for tomato and pepper plants from the store.

Where I fell down was, after the garden was planted I got bored and lost interest. Then a few weeks later I would remember the garden and it would be a mess.

So I guess the answer is you can have some fun, and get the best freshest tasting vegetables at low cost. But if it is not something you enjoy doing you won't save much if anything, especially if you count the time you spend.

If you look at it as a hobby it is one of the cheapest most rewarding hobbies you can have,

If you look at it as a part time job you would do better at Walmart.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Has anyone had any success in planting a blue-berry bush (and keep it thriving) in a city garden? If not in the garden, how about in a flower pot?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> Has anyone had any success in planting a blue-berry bush (and keep it thriving) in a city garden? If not in the garden, how about in a flower pot?


Yep. You just need to ensure soil pH is really low. I used raised beds.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Okay, thanks. I presume your your bushes still producing blue-berries, for how long now?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Beaver101 said:


> Okay, thanks. I presume your your bushes still producing blue-berries, for how long now?


This will be the forth year.


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## RentGera (Apr 28, 2016)

If you put a dollar value on your time, say at least equal to minimum wage, Gardening is probably not saving you money. But I guess it depends on a couple major factors like soil quality and if you need pesticides and tools. Maybe you will save some $$$ on a gym membership because it's hard work!


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

If you are growing it for yourself then you certainly don't "need" pesticides. Nor is it hard work. Putting seeds in the ground and picking vegetables does not really qualify.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> Since no one has spoke on behalf of the rabbits, then I will. I think it is a great idea. Just so you know, they really like alfalfa. lol.


NO. the rabbits don't get a a day. They have been in all parts of my garden. There is rabbit droppings, and they even leave butt prints in my soil. My kids thinks it hilariously and ask who is getting the bunny butt herbs. 



nobleea said:


> I say it depends on many things. How much space you have, your exposure, and what you intend on planting and eating.
> 
> Herbs probably have a good payback. They don't take much space, you don't use a whole lot, and fresh herbs are pretty pricey. Tomatoes are cheap to grow and can be heavy producers. Our plants grow to 7-8' tall and each one produces, I don't know, 20lbs of tomatoes? Zucchinis are pretty much weeds. Swiss chard is a good one as it will regrow after you harvest some. Chard isn't too cheap in the store either. We also like beets as the cheapest we've seen them is around 50c per beet (with greens). One of the veggies where you eat everything (root and leaves). Grow them all from seeds.
> 
> ...


Our garden is 3 plots of Of 3 x 3 and one long 1.5 by about 10 feet. So really not a lot of room. I am only doing this because the space is there. 

Here's what I decided to plant 
2 hanging upside down pots for Tomatoes
Lots of different herbs (I do buy a lot normally and they are pricey)
rainbow beets because the non red ones are expensive and are the only ones my family will eat
rainbow carrots because they are fun and better fresh
lettuce, kale, spinach, just because I like pick out a few leaves for a sandwich 
Strawberries because they are just good
Kohl rabi because I just like them 
Purple beans (bush) because they are purple




Ben1491 said:


> Best bang for the buck is garlic !
> Do you use garlic for cooking ? Very expensive if you buy the locally grown one. Minimum work and rabbit proof and can store for a long time. Buy some at the local farmers market (do not buy those imported one from super markets). Get a bag of manure, dig in and plant them around November. You'll harvest them around August ! My garlic at my garden has already grown around 12" tall now.


I will do this at the end of the season. Good tip 



Rusty O'Toole said:


> Like anything else, you get better the longer you do it. With your experience you should be able to do better this year in terms of yield and costs will be lower since you already have so much you won't need to buy many things.
> 
> I used to grow plants from seed bought at the hardware store or dollar store, planted in dollar store styrofoam cups and let grow in my kitchen window. I never figured up the cost but it must have been a few pennies compared to $1.79 or $2.79 for tomato and pepper plants from the store.
> 
> ...


I am doing is more something to do, and I do really love cooking with fresh ingredients. I like the idea of my kids being able to learn where food comes from. 

I am finding the cost is higher because I am just learning but I guess that's the learning curve.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Plugging Along said:


> Purple beans (bush) because they are purple


Actually, we found that the purple bush beans were more tender as well - they do turn green when you cook them though 
The green varieties can get stringy if you leave them too long. 
We've been converted to pole beans though - much better yield per sq ft, no slug damage, tender and great taste. Nine poles 1 ft apart, 8 ft high, fastened to the eavestrough - a veritable wall of beans


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## Ben1491 (Jan 13, 2012)

I grow every thing organic, no insecticide and chemical fertilizer......


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

OnlyMyOpinion said:


> Actually, we found that the purple bush beans were more tender as well - they do turn green when you cook them though
> The green varieties can get stringy if you leave them too long.
> We've been converted to pole beans though - much better yield per sq ft, no slug damage, tender and great taste. Nine poles 1 ft apart, 8 ft high, fastened to the eavestrough - a veritable wall of beans


I was hoping they would stay purpl. Good point on the pole beans and space. I may try that next year


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

RentGera said:


> If you put a dollar value on your time, say at least equal to minimum wage, Gardening is probably not saving you money.


The other question is whether one values the cost savings when the produce tastes like wood instead of produce. 

If there's local farmer with better products for a reasonable price ... great.




RentGera said:


> But I guess it depends on a couple major factors like soil quality and if you need pesticides and tools. Maybe you will save some $$$ on a gym membership because it's hard work!


Agreed on the soil and pesticides but the tools I wonder about. I tend to buy them at garage sales, where a high percent were bought for other tasks but are also put to work in the garden.

Even if one does buy new for gardening, other than maybe gloves ... is one really going to replace a trowel or shovel or wheel barrow every year?


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> Ben1491 said:
> 
> 
> > Best bang for the buck is garlic ! ... Buy some at the local farmers market (do not buy those imported one from super markets). Get a bag of manure, dig in and plant them around November. You'll harvest them around August ! ...
> ...


Keep your eyes open and talk to people ... doing so meant a co-worker gave me five or six bulbs as seeds, which worked out well.

You may want to check with the local conditions as leaving the garlic as late as August for me meant they didn't dry properly. The ones harvested in early July were dried and lasted two years without any problems.


Cheers


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

If you plant low maintenance crops it generally saves you money. Those who enjoy it as a hobby, rather than consider it work, find it very relaxing and satisfying. As I'm busy, I just have a small garden. I find the following require minimal maintenance and cost:

- tomatoes - I picked up 6 plants for $1.99 last year that yielded quite a lot of tomatoes. Requires at most occasionally pulling a couple of weeds and a little pruning. 

- rhubarb - Yields 3 crops a year and is almost maintenance free. On top of that is a perennial. 

- chives - Another perennial. Very occasional weeding is all that required. 

And usually I try one specialty item. Last year it was cilantro because we like Mexican food and cilantro doesn't last long in the refrigerator and therefore tends to be expensive. Unfortunately I let it go to seed and the stalks become woody after that. However, I just noticed this year that my garden is chock-full of cilantro plants.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Much more cost efficient to grow from seed. You also get a better choice of plants and they tend to be stronger.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Why not just eat the seeds?


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## OhGreatGuru (May 24, 2009)

On a small scale it is not really a "frugal" activity, so much as a pastime to grow things that will be fresher and tastier than you can buy. Even on a large scale, staple crops like potatoes and carrots are so cheap to buy it is hardly worth growing them yourself just to save money. On a small scale concentrate on things that don't travel well, and consequently are picked green and tasteless by agribusiness. Tomatoes are a good example. Nothing store-bought compares to the taste of freshly-picked tomatoes. If you like to make your own pasta sauce, you can grow quite a few and freeze them for later use.


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## twa2w (Mar 5, 2016)

To the person asking about blue berry bushes, I stayed at a b&b that was a blueberry farm. The owner told me that in the wild blueberries do very well after a forest fire has gone through. So in additional to the proper soil etc, he showed me machine that he ran over his rows of blueberries which burned every other row. He alternated rows burned each year. He said this increased production the year following the burning by a substantial margin ( in the rows that were burned). For some readon he had to alternate the burning. Not sure if this was done in spring or fall. Perhaps something to look into ;-)


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Burnt areas are prime picking country in northern Ontario. Heavy competition with the black bears though :eek2:


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

my favourite frugality although it's not always successful: growing new plants - or at least edible green leaves - from the chopped off tops of beets, radishes, turnips, cabbages, onions etc.

the trials & tribulations i've had! planting top or root cuttings is not always successful. I have no idea what inspires a cutting to develop its own new root system & transform itself into an entirely new plant, one that will be able to grow, flower & set itself to seed in turn.

but success or not, i trudge on with the effort. At the very least a cutting will generate a useful growth of new green leaves before it wilts permanently. Sometimes i think that success in rooting the cuttings might depend upon the nature of the previous year's compost. All in all, the effort is most useful in wintertime, in pots on sunny windowsills.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

i have concluded definitely not frugal. Frost wiped out some of my little plants on the weekend while I was out of town and the rabbits keep eating my beet tops. I think my beans committed suicide too. 

I am still plugging along at this. I have enough tarragon, oregano, and chives that I don't know what to do with. I am sure I will enjoy the herb garden even more once the rest of the plants get going. 

I have been trying to grow another plant from my Rosemary as humble suggested and it isn't working.


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## Sustainable PF (Nov 5, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> I also don't think this is a money-saving activity....large scale, _maybe._ Treat it for what it is, a love of nature and a nice outdoor hobby


Disagree. For families trying to eat organic and locally growing your own vs buying organic farmer's market items saves a lot of money. We have grown various veg for years. I spend $5 on 2 things of garlic (about 15 cloves) and these turn into 15 garlic plants. Each organic garlic will cost me about $1. Save a few plants for re-seeding next year and the 13 garlic plants I harvested cost $2.50 with 13 more next year for $2.50. 

Ditto for tomatoes. We buy a few plants (3) for $3 and we get far more value in fresh organic tomatoes than we could imagine getting at a store or market (we'd get like 3 tomatoes while our plants each yield 20+ so 60 for the price of 3 - i'm down with that).

Bought 1 raspberry bush for about $7.50 five years ago - we've been eating free raspberries for years and the plant just keeps multiplying. A 1/2 quart of the same at the grocery (non organic) costs me $2 in season.

Neighbours have asparagus growing so I will ask for some crowns to plant in the fall. These things keep coming back forever and with them I waive good bye to my asparagus bill (6 weeks every spring my wife buys soooooooo much asparagus while it is fresh and obtained locally - costs a pretty penny)


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a fun update...

My tomatoe plant died, okay, that wasn't so fun

However, I think I saw a tip from humble somewhere about using cuttings to grow new plants. I have successfully created cuttings from basil and Rosemary to create new plants, plus my oregano is so big, I was able to successfully divide it. I have been creating potted herb gardens. I still have to put in a couple of other herbs, but they having been used as gifts. Also, I plan to see if I can keep another one, so I will have some through the winter. 

Have been eating lots of spinach, lettuce, beet and kale greens, plus more herbs than I know what to do with.

My next experiment is seeing if I can't grow a celery from a celery bottom I just cut off.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

We have some garlic, salad, raspberry, black and red current, gooseberry ... not too much investment, but much better quality than "pesticide" stuff in supermarket. 
... and yes, rabbits destroy a lot of stuff


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I have given up gardening except for one thing, spring onions or green onions. I bought one bunch for 50 cents in the spring, ate half, and planted 6 of them in a planter in my kitchen window. When I want some fresh for a salad, sandwich filling or for cooking I cut some off with a scissors. They always grow back. Plenty of onions all the time, let's see how long they keep growing, I never tried this before.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> Just a fun update...Have been eating lots of spinach, lettuce, beet and kale greens, plus more herbs than I know what to do with




plugging this sounds absolutely wonderful! i'm not surprised you have such a magical green thumb.

me i actually don't have too much luck with cuttings though (my real talent is gathering & either cooking or else drying edible wild plant foods such as flowers, buds & leaves) (i'm pretty good at foraging in the country.)

in the city backyard i grow basil from seed plus perennial chives, mint, lemon balm, motherwort (very bitter), nettles (very nutritious), also strawberries & raspberries. Every year i buy tarragon plants, sometimes they overwinter but mostly tarragon doesn't seem to want to last in my backyard. My neighbour keeps a large rosemary shrub on her back steps every summer & invites me to share it.

in the country it's another story. Right now the harvesting from fields & forest glades is c.r.a.z.y.w.i.l.d. I can't begin to keep up with the outpouring of everything that's budding or flowering or growing green leaf tips these days. Wild blackberry buds. Wild st john's wort. Wild roses.

in the country, others are growing conventional vegetables in neat rows. Chards, beans, carrots, tomatoes. Me i'm the wild plant forager. They look at my armfuls of greens suspiciously when i bring them into the kitchen. _OMG_ they go, _you're not planning to cook *that *?_


.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I have given up gardening except for one thing, spring onions or green onions. I bought one bunch for 50 cents in the spring, ate half, and planted 6 of them in a planter in my kitchen window. When I want some fresh for a salad, sandwich filling or for cooking I cut some off with a scissors. They always grow back. Plenty of onions all the time, let's see how long they keep growing, I never tried this before.



Rusty you've mentioned this about the green onions before so - inspired by your tale of huge success - i have tried to do the same.

alas it doesn't work for me. I have no clue what keeps going wrong. I leave a respectable centimetre or 2 of the plant on the roots, then plant the same in clean new potting soil. Other cuttings i have tried in water.

at first, they all poke up new green plantlet shoots. The most i've ever gotten is one new green onion plant that grew to a height of 10 centimetres & even managed to send up a 2nd pointy shoot, before fate overcame it.

what always happens is that the concentric rings of the original plant part keep on decaying. Eventually, even the new green shoot that's trying to grow itself from the roots gets overwhelmed. Then it dies.

hmmmn maybe this is telling me Less Water. Keep em dry.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I was out of town and the rabbits keep eating my beet tops


 than maybe you need start hunting rabbits?! They are very tasty and expensive if you buy in the store


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Look in the mirror. If you have long floppy ears and a cute little powder puff tail, then eat your crappy kale and cucumbers. If not, stick to red meat, chicken, fish, eggs and dairy. It's not rocket science. Paleo forever!!!!


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> alas it doesn't work for me. I have no clue what keeps going wrong. I leave a respectable centimetre or 2 of the plant on the roots, then plant the same in clean new potting soil. Other cuttings i have tried in water.
> 
> at first, they all poke up new green plantlet shoots. The most i've ever gotten is one new green onion plant that grew to a height of 10 centimetres & even managed to send up a 2nd pointy shoot, before fate overcame it.
> 
> ...


How long have you tried this? I have been going with green onions for a few months. I would cut just above the white to keep a bit of green. I would put it in water and it is generally happy that way. I experimented a bit and planted in soil in hopes of keeping hydrated. You just need to keep it moist as they love water.

I noticed that some are starting to develop onion bulbs so I tried planting those in soil and we'll see if they become full fledged onions.

I do notice that the onions aren't as thick as what is bought in store, but they are still useful for garnish or some colour.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

today's salad from my garden:

Dill, chocolate mint, parsley, spring onions, garlic scapes, tarragon, rosemary, lettuce, arugula, coriander. Tomorrow I'll pick a different set, perhaps with peas, radish and rhubarb. Maybe I'll throw in some strawberries too. Soon we'll have courgettes, zuccetas and tomatos. This does not take much effort, most of the effort goes in the picking, which I enjoy. 

Don't think this quality, freshness and variety is available from shops - for any money.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

bgc_fan said:


> How long have you tried this? I have been going with green onions for a few months. I would cut just above the white to keep a bit of green. I would put it in water and it is generally happy that way. I experimented a bit and planted in soil in hopes of keeping hydrated. You just need to keep it moist as they love water.



thankx. As i read you, you are cutting above the white part of the onion, ie just into the green leaves. That must leave you with a plant stump still attached to the roots (the white part) which is at least 4 or 5 inches long?

i haven't been doing that, perhaps that's the trouble. I've been cutting my onions with only about an inch of white plant stalk still attached to the roots. Because - LOL - i want to use my entire onion plant in cooking, both the white part & the green leafy part. So far, i haven't been willing to sacrifice the best culinary plant parts to some iffy next generation that might not even materialize.

same thing with my leek root. I left about 3 cm of plant stalk on the thick bunch of roots, parked the roots in water, yes a new green plant stem has appeared, but i don't know if it will survive to become a plant in its own right. The last bunch of leek roots i tried didn't make it.

at the risk of being totally boring, here is my radish story once again. I was spoiled rotten on my very first attempt. I had these radish tops that i planted in compost in a flower pot on the balcony. Incredibly tall strong plants quickly grew. Lots of spicy peppery green leaves for salads. In no time at all, huge clouds of fragrant pale pink flowers. Also good in salads.

but alas, never again.

oh, well. I'm very happy hearing that others are successful. Me i've taken to buying flats of greenhouse-started lettuces & vegetables at the jean talon market in early spring.

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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

steve41 said:


> Look in the mirror. If you have long floppy ears and a cute little powder puff tail, then eat your crappy kale and cucumbers. If not, stick to red meat, chicken, fish, eggs and dairy. It's not rocket science. Paleo forever!!!!


Haha I like your optimism steve41. I used to be a full-fledged carnivore too.

Just wait until _The Gout_ hits, it's a form of arthritis (the most painful one according to wikipedia) that is caused by a buildup of uric acid crystals in the joints, usually starting in the main joint of the big toe, also known in days of yore as 'the rich man's disease'.

It is controllable through diet and exercise, but many people go the medication route.

Unfortunately (or not) red meat is one of the worst offenders; there's a long list including shellfish, oily fish (the otherwise healthiest ones btw, like sardines, anchovies, mackerel, herring, salmon, unfortunately), and even beer (because the yeast residue is also high in purines).


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

humble_pie said:


> plugging this sounds absolutely wonderful! i'm not surprised you have such a magical green thumb.
> 
> me i actually don't have too much luck with cuttings though (my real talent is gathering & either cooking or else drying edible wild plant foods such as flowers, buds & leaves) (i'm pretty good at foraging in the country.)
> 
> ...



That is really really awesome. I would love to forage, but I have to admit I am not that outdoorsy and am defiantly a city gal. I wouldn't know where to begin, hence my little garden is my closest attempt to being with nature. I am hoping one of the tarragon will die off this winter, but if not, I will make it work. 

Today I made herb, spinach and goat cheese omelettes, and thinned out the rest of the kale and beet for greens. I pulled out the spinach and stemmed it. I had a massive bag of leaves. I am pretty happy with it. 




gibor365 said:


> than maybe you need start hunting rabbits?! They are very tasty and expensive if you buy in the store


Lol. I think it's illegal here, plus the rabbits here look pretty vicious. I do like grill rabbit and stew though. 



steve41 said:


> Look in the mirror. If you have long floppy ears and a cute little powder puff tail, then eat your crappy kale and cucumbers. If not, stick to red meat, chicken, fish, eggs and dairy. It's not rocket science. Paleo forever!!!!


Lol... We love our meat too, but my husbands health had him cutting out a lot of red meat. However, tomorrow night it will be a BBQ steak, with baby beet, kale and spinach greens sautéed with garlic, onion, cream cheese, and Parmesan. It is delicious.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

So I am going to give up Beer and Rib-eyes on the off chance I will contract gout which I can control with medication anyway? Give me a minute....... (_pause 2 seconds_).... Nope.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

I plan to garden next year and took this year off. Had a rat problem in the neighbourhood last year and it hit my garden so I took a year off. The neighbourhood has put out rat poison boxes from the city so hopefully it gets under control and I can move forward on the garden next year. Living in greater Vancouver where they like to knock houses down, it displaces as well as gives homes to rats when houses are temporarily abandoned.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> Lol. I think it's illegal here, plus the rabbits here look pretty vicious. I do like grill rabbit and stew though.


Don't think it's illegal if they are coming to your backyard and destroying plants  ... anyway , who gonna know?! Just place net on the backyard grass and lift it up when rabbits have "dinner"  Rabbits on our backyard are very fat now...should be yummy


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I dont see the rabbits eating just the remains of my veggies. Plus our garden is in the front on the drive way, and at the community centre. 

I like your thinking, but I resorted to putting up small fences. This so far has worked.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

About to make "Mellow Mint Wine" from my chocolate mint. It's my favourite herb wine... Can't think of any drink that's cheaper to make and provides a better value.


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

OK..... two prehistoric tribal groups with different dietary habits. The first ate chard and parsley along with the occasional root and berry in season... competing with the rabbits. The second group chowed down on rabbits. Guess which thrived and passed their genetics to us, the current tribe?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

mordko said:


> About to make "Mellow Mint Wine" from my chocolate mint. It's my favourite herb wine... Can't think of any drink that's cheaper to make and provides a better value.


That sounds really interesting, I saw chocolate mint when I was starting the garden, didn't know How touse it.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Plugging Along said:


> That sounds really interesting, I saw chocolate mint when I was starting the garden, didn't know How touse it.


Same way you would use standard peppermint... You can also get apple mint and a bunch of other varieties. It's just that if you make wine out of pepper/spearmint, it turns out a bit toothpasty. Other varieties work great though.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

steve41 said:


> OK..... two prehistoric tribal groups with different dietary habits. The first ate chard and parsley along with the occasional root and berry in season... competing with the rabbits. The second group chowed down on rabbits. Guess which thrived and passed their genetics to us, the current tribe?



lol the dentally oriented anthropologists & the anthropologically oriented oral surgeons have been chowing forensically down on this topic for decades. 

what does jawbone evolution indicate about the dietary habits of early hominoids?

the ongoing disappearance of wisdom teeth seems to be a clue here. No one dwells on the learned publications of DOAs or AOOSs but the jury still seems to be out on whether our ancestors grazed daintily on berries & wild leaves or whether they ate whatever road kill they could manage to knock off with stones & flint axes ...


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## steve41 (Apr 18, 2009)

Plus.... they went for the most fatty parts, liver, brain, etc first. Some populations still live exclusively on meat, such as the northern-most eskimo, some tribes in Africa as well. Paleo is where it's at!


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Our ancestors ate what they could get, and when they couldn't get anything they ate something else. Usually this meant a lot of plants and some meat, fish or honey from time to time.

If you don't eat anything man made and do all your shopping in the produce and meat sections you won't go far wrong.

To catch rabbits make a snare out of fine copper wire and look for where they go through the hedge or under the fence. I am sure there are videos about snaring rabbits.


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## Steve Divi (Jul 14, 2016)

I can never keep my garden alive. I spend way more money trying to grow stuff then I would have if I just went to Safeway


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

So far, I am still on the fence on whether cost wise it's worth it. I think if I didn't have some many deaths, then it would be. I have a $2 single cherry tomatoe, on an otherwise dead plant. I may not Ever get to harvest if the pests get to it before it ripens.

I have found fresh herbs are definitely worth it. its been an ash having fresh greens the rest of the time, so I think I would continue. I have been making a lot of smoothies, and they contain a lot of lettuce, beet greens, spinach, kale and other greens. my kids love them despite the colour, and I know they are getting good quality, so I am finding I am enjoying this, and probably will more as I get better.


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

in the spring as a hobby I will plant maybe 3 acres plus a large hothouse

i can let you know my time and input cost,root vegetables and tomatoes and such,i will be retired,hope to donate lots plus family and friends will be provided for(i will share my crops),have lots of land beside a river


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## mayallen (Aug 2, 2016)

Having home gardens is a good money saver. Just plant seeds that you will enjoy growing. I had a tough time when I started out, it's just a matter of time before the garden really begins to shape up. You could try planting tomatoes, green pepper and zucchini. You might be over watering your plants, In my first year I lost half of my garden because I was over watering them.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

.

somewhere Rusty has a few neat posts where he writes how he plants leftover green onion roots & these rapidly shoot up into brazilian rainforests of lush new green onion plants (there was a thread about growing new plants from roots, but i can't find it.)

inspired by Rusty, i've been dutifully trying to grow green onions ever since. All of my rootlet experiments have failed.

undaunted, i would try again after each failure. Drat! more failures.

i tried green onion roots in water. They'd rot. I tried them in dryish soil. They'd shrivel.

meanwhile Rusty would annoyingly chirp on in cmf forum about his lush, verdant brazilian rainforests of new green onion plants.

a couple weeks ago, this being the height of farm produce season, i had no less than 8 giant bunches of green onions in the kitchen. I chopped off the top half of 12 plants, took the 12 roots outside, stuck em upright in a large pot full of compost, gave em a good slosh of water & stashed the pot in a far corner of the backyard.

there'd been such a history of failure that i was expecting nothing. I didn't even bother to look at the flower pot again.

yesterday i stumbled across my half-forgotten flower pot. I was dazzled. It was a lush, verdant brazilian rainforest of new green onion plants, all at least 20 centimetres high.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

^. HP I a so surprise with the failure, for some reason I have this image of you that everything you touch just turns out magnificently. You are so apt at evrything you seem to do. 

I have been playing around with the scraps idea you 'planted' with me, and it has been great. I have couple of celery spouting, and grew several beautifully lush new basil, and rosemary plants. The new plants are actually doing better than the original cuttings. I am going to do garlic next. 

One observation in have made is if I take put the cutting in warm water and wait until the roots are very well established, it seems to work better. I had to put the cutting in a small container, but make sure that the tops were not covered (learned they just go slimey then and die), I changed the water every three to four day, and also sprayed gentle the tops so they didn't dry out if they looked a little withering. Once I saw really good set of roots, i transplanted it, I also had them in the warmest sunniest window of my house. 

I don't know if that helps.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

*HEEEELP???? SLimey slugs*

So I need some advice. There has been a lot of rain on my area, and I have found my garden infested with slimey garden slugs. I have good le it's, and there is some much info that I thought I would ask the most knowledgable here.

Heres what I have do 

I have tried salt, and it does work. It's pretty gross though as it like watching mini Jabba the huts shrivel and die. It leaves white slime on my veggies, which is gross, and I am concerned about the salt in my garden killing the plants. 

Crushed eggshells which the slugs are supposedly unable to cross, but I think I have some slugs that are like those glass walkers and are still on my plants. I this isn't worked because my area is so small and the slugs are a really on the area that I would have to cover every bit of dirt with eggshells which I don't have that many..

We had our exteminator come and he was killing some wasps nest so he did sprinkle some not (human pet) toxic powder around the beds, to prevent further friend joining, however, I think the slugs are already on the garden bed.


So how do I get them out? Here's another dark secret of mine, I have an irrational phobia of insects and pests, so will not go near them, will not touch them (even to remove them). I know it's silly, but it's something that I am working on. I need to know how to evict these critters. In a safe ways because this is my organic garden 

I read that they like beer, so I was thinking of putting bowl of beer out and getting dunk and drowning them. Even the through of removing a bowl of dead slugs panic me, but I think I can do that or get my husband to.

Any other experience.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I use raised beds and put anti slug copper wire around them. Works. Not 100percent but close. 

Methods like eggshells are unscientific BS. Salt should work if there is enough but you will kill your plants first. Beer... Another bs. Putting poison around your food is an interesting approach.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

^. My bed is raised. In fact it's about 3 feet above the ground, which is why I find this weird. I don't know if copper wire will help at this point becaus they are already on there so I am trying to get them out without touching them. 

The salt kills them but I have to get it directly on the slug which is often on my plant and then it leaves a slimey white stuff that won't come off, use as you said I am worried the rest of the salt will kill then veggies. Plus I have to salt one slug at a time. 
Eggshells were pretty harmless as I use them for composting anyways,

the chemical-were for other problems so the pest control guys just put it around the perimeter not in the garden, but if a little got in it is food safe. 

So again how do I get them out (without touching them). Since they are in there. I don't care if there is science behind it or not, as long it works.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Once they are in the bed, there is no other way but to come out after rain, in the evenings and try to collect them and put into salty water. For the future - anti-slug copper wire around the bed is very efficient.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

perhaps a box of those disposable plastic/latex gloves that dentists use?

i wouldn't put salt on the plants because NaCl will stay permanently in the soil, might even build up in the soil. This would be terrible. If you use salty water you'd have to flush it, could not empty it out upon the land.

believe it or not i have a recollection of hearing about some gardener who enjoyed stomping them to death. Presumably under a board or rock. This is no doubt the greenest solution, gah .each:

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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

The thought of collecting them is grossing me out, the thought of putting them under a board is even worse. :distress: like I said the idea of even feeling them through gloves actually makes me panic. It's irrational I know, and I am sure I can put run a slug, but I just can't do it. 

I will put copper wire for next year, I am still surprise that we had them in the first place, I am not sure it will help beacause the raise garden bed is in the middle of a concrete environment so I don't know how they got there. 

As for now, I will have to use my creative ways. I am debating a slug trap of melon rinds and beer bowls and then I will salt them out of the garden

Another idea I had was to get a big stick and flick them off into the street, my garden is at the end of the drive wave. Then salt them. 

It's rained for two weeks straight which is why I have the invasion. It's supposed to be hot so I am hoping they will die from the heat. 

My random thoughts.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

i see what you mean about the gloves each:

could using 2 sticks work? sort of like chopsticks? have ready a small pail of salty water?

anyhow don't put the salt on the plants or on the soil je t'en prie


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Beer and melon won't do anyone any harm, so go ahead. Hope your slugs are polite and will be kind enough to thank you. Salting anything is dangerous, unless its a looong way from plants. Copper is a scientific method; it works for protection against all sorts of living wet things; power plants use copper coatings to protect against zebra mussles. And yeah, once they are making babies in your soil, they'll stick around unless you get hubby to fish them out. Note that throwing them to neighbours garden won't help - these beasts can travel incredibly long distances once they know you have laid out the dinner for them. And no, concrete is not in any way a problem for a few determined mum&dad slugs looking for a nice bed.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Great suggestions. I bought a mini melon which we are going to carve for fun and use the shell. I am not sure about the beer as mu hubby says that he likes the beer we currently have. I don't think they need a whole bottle, but I will unless I get hubby to share a bit, then I will try other techniques. I am also pretty adapt to using chopsticks. I wouldn't throw them in my neighbor place, that would be unneighbourly. I know this is overkill, I think I may chop stick them out into the road and drive them with car. I am normally not such a drama queen expect when it comes to pests and bugs. Like I said its irrational. 

It's hot right now, so they are not out. I will report later on my unscientific experiments.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Plugging Along said:


> I know this is overkill, I think I may chop stick them out into the road and drive them with car.


this is wonderful, i had such a good laugh

dainty Plugging learns to defend her veggie patch with SUV at high speeds

.

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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just to be clear, I felt the SUV was way to much even by my standards, so was going to use the car at low speed. I figure the slug couldn't out slither the tire at low speed. You have to think about the safety of those around. 

Though I was actually debating if putting multiple slugs in one area or in different parts of the tire would be more effective. I was thinking about the slime residue that would result and couldn't decide which one would have the least impact on the car. 

My nephew came with me and were hunting them tonight when I was giving him some herbs. He thought is was it was a little crazy but was in for as it would be a first him. All the slugs were hiding though. I think the slug may sense my plan. I will post if there is any progress or further devlopements .


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a fun update.


There still slugs on my garden area though less. Eggshells seemed to help, salting them was most effective. The chopstick idea was much sharper than I thought. They curl up and try to get away and then stick to the stick. Running them over was too slimey for my kids bike, but better on their scooter.

We found putting melon rinds (large pieces, so it was like a cup) the most effective, the slugs would crawl on and feast, in the morning I would salt them still, so not as much salt went into the garden. 

It's a little dryer now too, so that seems to help.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Plugging,

I used to house/dog sit for friends who had a large garden. One of my assigned duties while there was to conduct a nightly slug patrol. The owners left me with a pair of long tongs...I think just ordinary BBQ tongs, used to pluck the miscreant slugs from the garden and drop them into a bucket of water. I do not think that the water had any salt in it. I think it more the case that slugs are just not very good swimmers.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> .
> 
> somewhere Rusty has a few neat posts where he writes how he plants leftover green onion roots & these rapidly shoot up into brazilian rainforests of lush new green onion plants (there was a thread about growing new plants from roots, but i can't find it.)
> 
> ...


I am surprised by this. All I did was stick them in a window box of potting soil and put the box in the kitchen window. But I made sure to water generously every day until the roots were well established. I still water every day, the soil dries out fast because it is in direct sun.

The onions are old and tough now, I have been cutting them all summer for salads. Next step is to make a pot of potato soup with the onions chopped up in it for flavor. And spend 50 cents on a new bunch.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

such green thumbs in the forum .each:

speaking of Plugging's slugs, i used to have slugs but now i've got large garden snails. Each one in a spiralled butter-caramel-with-cream striped shell.

they are very pretty. Apparently the animal is related to slugs. It hasn't occurred to me yet to get rid of them. However they are feasting on herbs & all young, fresh green leaves.

in the evening one can hear them clanking their shells around while chomping through strawberry leaves, green onions, lettuce & chard. I am not kidding. You can hear them slurping.
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