# How to buy Gold?



## sags (May 15, 2010)

*Where to buy 1 oz of gold?*

For a specific reason, I am going to be buying 1 ounce of 99.99% pure gold.

I am not a gold bug collector, but I have a personal reason to buy one coin or so.

I have a budget of up to $3,000 to spend on it...........and I found a coin at the Canadian Mint for 2,999.99.

It is limited quantity of 500 coins, but is sold out right now. It says they are awaiting stock.

That is a big premium over the spot price of gold, due to the limited quantity and excellence of the coin, I suppose.

My question is.....if a person buys such a coin.....will it's value reflect any increase in gold prices and will it retain it's "premium" value?

Just wondering...........if I should buy bullion instead. I see the TD Bank sells 1 oz. bullion wafers for the mint.

Is there less of a premium to buy a 1 ounce bullion "wafer" and is the premium for "coins" justified to someone in the sense that the coin would always be able to fetch the premium back.........or most of it?


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

The Mint doesn't usually sell bullion coins. I think the Maple Leaf currently on sale at the Mint is a special strike, so it is sold as a collectible, not for its gold content.

I've purchased from J&M in the past. I think other members pointed out Border Gold as an alternative.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Scotia bank sells coins and bullion, but you are correct that there is a substantial premium over the price of gold for minted coins.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/1-oz-gold-krugerrand-coins


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## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

For non physical posession there are also firms selling receipts for gold housed in vaults, like Scotia Bank's in downtown Toronto. 

I read an intersting construction article on this; the challenges of going one floor deeper underground than any other tower ever built downtown.


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## CanadianCapitalist (Mar 31, 2009)

CIBC also sells bullion these days.

https://www.preciousmetals.cibc.com/gold-GC1RCM.aspx

One member posted that you can buy Maple Leafs at RBC with a $50 (?) premium, which will probably be cheapest.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

https://store.nwtmint.com/product_details/1033/Gold_Maple_Leaf_1_Ounce/

If you buy $5, they'll drop the price from $1380 to $1290 (all US), which is pretty good.

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/gold_mapleleaf.php


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

Hi Sags, Looks like you're looking at the Grandmother moon mask. http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/pure-...ask-mintage-500-2013-prod1670002#.Uupq9zaA2M8 It's just over a troy ounce so, yes, a huge premium over the price of gold. The question is, will it's collector value hold (which is what is giving it the premium). On the plus side: very small issue (500), subject matter is very much in vogue for collectors, and the ultra high relief is also desirable over regular relief. Also the .9999 silver version of the same coin is trading at a slight premium over the issue price a year later.
On the minus side, RCM is issuing so many different designs every year aimed at the collector market that the market is a little saturated. For every home run eg the Superman series, there are probably ten strike outs. Your gamble is that collectors will continue to pay the premium over gold. The stop loss is that it will always be worth it's weight in gold, so to speak. It's a stunning coin with a better than usual chance I would say of maintaining it's collector value, so if you are looking for a collectible, it's not a bad punt I guess. You might be better off looking at the 5 and ten dollar gold circulation coins 1912-14 that are slabbed (ie rated by a third party agency) to be more assured of future collectible value. 
If you just want physical gold and don't care what it is then buy "junk" ie gold sovereigns with no numismatic value, but generally, no premium over spot.
good luck


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i would avoid northwest territorial mint ... why go outside the country ? (among other reasons)

http://silvergoldbull.com/gold/1-oz-2014-canadian-maple-leaf-gold-coin

silver gold bull or border gold are both very good, i use border gold because they are closer to me

the plain old canadian gold maple leaf is one of the purest gold coins you can buy

Guaranteed purity (.9999 fineness*; 24 carats) & weight

if you live in a major city just check out your local coin store or pawn shop, these guys all watch each others prices like hawks

why would you spend 3000 when you can have a gold maple for $1475 delivered and get the purest gold coin you can buy ?

as actor points out above i would avoid the rcm who are now turning out endless crap which will not hold its value

just check out craigslist and look at all the discounts on coins that rcm sold years ago

personally i would buy this over a gold rcm maple: http://silvergoldbull.com/gold-bars/1oz-canadian-gold-wafer
they are totally sealed and serial numbered
maples are hard to counterfeit but these new sealed wafers are very hot right now


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

+1 for Border Gold or Kitco. Just google them for contacts. Their premium is about 5% above spot. So you need to make 5% to break even. These dealers are not charity so they will not buy and sell at spot prices and make zero money. They are a business with rent and employees to pay so there is always a premium spread to pay.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

MoreMiles said:


> +1 for Border Gold or Kitco. Just google them for contacts. Their premium is about 5% above spot. So you need to make 5% to break even. These dealers are not charity so they will not buy and sell at spot prices and make zero money. They are a business with rent and employees to pay so there is always a premium spread to pay.


right, it makes no sense to buy these coins to flip them because of the spread the dealers must charge, they are only useful for long term holds


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Yes, it was the Grandmother Moon Mask I was looking at. It looks like a beautiful coin with a face value of $200.

I was thinking of buying the coin, as a keepsake for my Grandson. My dad left us kids $3,000 each in his will and I don't want to spend the money or let it sit in the bank. I want something I can look at.......hold.......show my son and grandson.......and pass it on to them in the future, as a keepsake from their grandfather/great grandfather. 

I wouldn't want to see it ever get sold, but that would be out of my control at some point in the future. I just don't want get totally "hosed' on the premium added to the coin.........but I can see where the coin is "special" and for that reason I was somewhat interested.

On the other hand, I could buy 2 gold wafers for a similar price, which I could give one to my son and one to my grandson some day. I think as a non-collector, for my purposes, I would probably be wise to buy 2 of those in the sealed packaging.

Thanks for the links.

I am going to check out all the information provided............thanks for all the replies.


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## nortel'd (Mar 20, 2012)

A friend of mine uses SPROTT to buy physical gold and silver. Make sure you request the stuff be delivered to you by registered mail not FEDX. 
http://store.sprottmoney.com/specials/gold-and-silver-blowout-sale/1-oz-gold-bars.html


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

You could buy a 1 ounce bar right now for $1275 US if you were to walk into Scotia Plaza in downtown Toronto

A few tips. Gold coins cost a lot more (higher premiums) because they're attractive and like a work of art. Bars and wafers get you closer to real gold prices, they have the lowest premiums and are preferred for investments. The bars and wafers are still very attractive, I guarantee you that. If you're talking about a gift or investment, I think a gold bar is just fine.

To ensure maximum liquidity in the future (meaning that other places will buy it from you) only get bars from refiners listed on the LBMA Good Delivery List. Everyone in the world looks at this list to determine whether a gold bar is recognizable. I wouldn't buy from craigslist personally. It's still important to have some documentation of who you bought it from, and you want gold that's in good shape. You want a reputable dealer. If the bar comes with an assay certificate, that's even better.

Whatever you do, check live spot market prices to see how much premium you're paying to the spot price. The cheapest I have found is at Scotia Plaza in downtown Toronto when you go in person (no shipping fees). I recently paid 1285 USD for 1 ounce bar, and spot market was 1255 USD meaning that I paid $30 premium or 2.4%. That's about the lowest premium you'll find in the country.


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

Hmm, well now it seems to me that it is the perfect gift. The grandmother moon mask from the grandfather, I find that poignant and much more touching than anonymous gold wafers. As you are not buying it as an investment, and hopefully it will never be sold in your lifetime, then why not? But I do admit to being sentimental, and also loving that particular coin. It sort of straddles the border between collectible coin and limited edition art piece. You could always buy the silver one instead - 1 troy oz .9999 for around $170, a premium over it's release price of $150.


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

My Grandfather bought us coin collectables when I was a kid. I have no idea where they are now. For all the moving that I've done I might have just thrown them out. Shame because they were probably worth something.

Anyway, that's the problem with collectables, they mean something to the buyer but not always the receiver.

If you have $3000 to spend on these kids, take them on a trip to Costa Rica for a week and take lots of pictures. In my mind those are much better keep sakes.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Sprott would be a reputable dealer too. Notice how the bars on their site are from the LBMA's Good Delivery List


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

You should not be paying anywhere close to $3000 for a 1 ounce coin. As others mentioned, if you really want a "coin" then go with the Maple Leafs which have a reasonably small premium over spot, such as

1 oz Maple Leaf at Sprott (appears to be 2.5% premium to spot, before shipping charges)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

By the way here's what the gold bar, this one is round, looks like from Scotia. I censored the serial #. Click for lage









24K (highest purity), Valcambi Suisse (known refiner), with assay certificate for mark of authenticity, in a hard plastic case.

For gift purposes I would probably opt instead for a Royal Canadian Mint bar or Maple Leaf coin. In any case, it's going to be beautiful


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Very nice idea when my father in law died we saved the money until we could find something fitting to do for our daughter a few years later, we sent her on a school trip for the 65th anniversary of D day .She got to stand at a grave with a candle with her classmates and really appreciated what her great grandfather and uncles went through.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

The grandmother moon mask is a very beautiful coin
In 20 years it is likely to be worth about the price of a 1 ounce gold coin
You can buy 2 ounces of gold for less than the moon mask and in 20 years have 2 ounces of gold

RCM coins are very beautiful but 99% of the time end up being poor investments
I would buy a couple of nice sealed and serialed gold bars which are actually also quite beautiful

If your grandson had a special connection and love of First Nations mythology and lore, that would be another story entirely ...


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I get my gold from the local branch of the Royal Bank. They have the best prices, better than Scotia Mocatta or any other dealer I tried. 

It is now 2 or 3 years since I bought gold but, at the time, they charged the 10 AM London Gold Fix price, plus $40 per ounce, plus a flat $15 delivery fee (for any amount of gold).

For some reason they charge sales tax on coins but not on bars. I thought this was backwards since coins are money and bars aren't but that is the way it works.

I was the first to buy gold from my local branch so it took them a day or 2 to figure it out but now, it is more routine.

Suggest you call or drop in at your local branch and inquire.

They sell new coins and bars from the Canadian mint, Johnson Mathey and other well known refiners.

They told me they will buy back the gold without an assay fee if they are the same brands they sell.

Later. I checked today's gold price. The London AM fix was $1254 US = $1400.84 CDN

$1400.84 + $40 = 1440.84 per ounce bar.

Delivery charge, $15.

Total $1454.84 per one ounce bar.

For coins add 13% HST

As I said, this was 2 or 3 years ago. Check with your local bank.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies.

I think my mind is made up to buy 2 of the sealed, serial numbered gold bars (wafers).

They will be unique enough for him to look at and ponder.........., although the coins are pretty nice too.

He is at that age where money fascinates him.........storing it, stacking it, finding it under his pillow after the tooth fairy comes.

And he continually wants it counted and asks what the value is..........in terms of buying new Skylanders.

Gold is kind of fascinating.............isn't it? 

It holds such a long history..........from the earliest civilizations........King Tut..........Fort Knox............Wells Fargo..............

He won't be taking them to school for "show and tell" without an armed escort though.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Rusty: in case you're interested, I got a quote today at an RBC branch for 1 ounce gold bar.

They quoted 1433.60 CAD plus a very reasonable 10.50 for delivery.

Market rate at NY close was 1243 USD = 1389 CAD. So they're taking around $45 premium to spot, slightly higher than the $40 premium you remembered.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

My price was based on the 10AM London Gold Fix price which is what the bank uses. If you ask tomorrow it should be lower as the price of gold dropped this afternoon.

Your quote of $1433.60 + $10.50 = $1444.10 is pretty close to my estimate of $1454.84. This seems like a very competitive price, delivered to your local bank branch.


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## alingva (Aug 17, 2013)

Do not buy 99.99 (pure) gold, buy 92.5% or something that is not pure. You will have to pay capital gain tax on pure gold purchase/sale. Not pure gold bullion/coin can be considered a personal item. There is another condition - do not buy 1 oz coin (it is over $1000+), buy less than that, because if the personal item is over $1000 you have to pay taxes on the gain when you sell. If you buy 1/2 oz not pure gold bullion/coin you will probably never pay tax. DO NOT BUY FROM CANADIAN MINT, you will overpay!!! If you need a dealer I can refer you to several (I have no vested interest, i do not sell coins and do not benefit from your purchase) If you do not want to deal with dealers EVERY bank in Canada by law has to sell gold coins (most of people including tellers in banks do not know that banks sell gold/silver)


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Rusty I agree that RBC's price looks quite competitive, delivery and everything. I think I may buy my next bar from them but I would first want to check what kinds of bars they're selling, what they look like and which refiner. RCM bar, ideally


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## emperor (Jul 24, 2011)

I buy mint coins at an ungodly premium for the added security. They are gold and silver so if fiat goes way down or the Canadian currency drops you can make cash. They have a way higher face value than Canadian maples if the price of precious metals drop to almost nothing you can still turn it in for cash and if all else fails they might appeal to collectors.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

The coins appeal to me too, as long as I can get them without a huge premium. I'm really not convinced the coins are worth all the extra premiums.

But there is no doubt in my mind that a good quality gold bar will remain liquid and valuable long term. It's a chunk of pure gold... and a recognized gold bar in good shape will be liquid everywhere in the world.

A bit off topic, but the Krugerrand coins appealed to me because the 8% copper content makes them very durable -- that's real money. In contrast a Maple Leaf is too delicate and soft to handle too much; it should be kept stored safely (as should a bar). Then again the Maple Leaf is one of the TOP gold coins in the world, and patriotic pride would compel me to support the Maple Leaf product (even though the Krugerrand is more durable as a "real coin").


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## Avaron (Jan 14, 2014)

*has anyone...*

...ever tried out that' toronto gold bullion' location in toronto? 

I have never bought gold from them, only a couple of silver coins. Curious as other people's experience in dealing with them.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Collectible or antique coins may turn out to be the best investment. And, when governments confiscate gold, collector coins and jewellery are usually exempt.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

To confiscate gold in America, the government required that agents be present as you opened your safe deposit box at the bank. Upon finding gold, the agent took your gold from you.

Keeping gold on your own premises is another way to prevent gold confiscation


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Is anyone really seriously worried about the government confiscating gold today? Why would they do it? Is the CDN dollar still on a gold standard? How much physical gold ownership is there in Canada to make this a worthwhile effort?


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## alingva (Aug 17, 2013)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> Collectible or antique coins may turn out to be the best investment.


 True...if you know how to determine and value them. It is true about any collectibles, not just precious metals


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## underemployedactor (Oct 22, 2011)

alingva said:


> Do not buy 99.99 (pure) gold, buy 92.5% or something that is not pure. You will have to pay capital gain tax on pure gold purchase/sale.r)


But .925 gold is subject to sales tax, .999 is not.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

J & M Coin in Vancouver is also reputable and I have purchased from them in the past. Go to their website and check their inventory, prices, etc. The same applies to Kitco and Border Gold.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> To confiscate gold in America, the government required that agents be present as you opened your safe deposit box at the bank. Upon finding gold, the agent took your gold from you.
> 
> Keeping gold on your own premises is another way to prevent gold confiscation


once again you are incorrect and haven't taken the time to do the research ... this never even happened in the USA, it's a classic internet rumour

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#The_myth_of_a_safe_deposit_box_seizures_order


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

I doubt any government will confiscate gold again. They only did it before because gold was money. If you are not on the gold standard then gold is no more important than aluminum or copper, probably less.

Today they don't have to confiscate gold to get money. They don't even have to print the stuff. They can create all the "wealth" they want with a few key strokes on a computer.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Well this is great news... since we're sure governments won't confiscate it anyway, even more reason to load up the safe deposit boxes with bullion


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

They did send agents to gypsy camps to confiscate their gold. Joseph Mitchell wrote a story in 1942 titled "The King Of The Gypsies". His informant Johnny Nikanov described the scene.


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## alingva (Aug 17, 2013)

underemployedactor said:


> But .925 gold is subject to sales tax, .999 is not.


True but capital gain tax probably will be much more that the sales tax


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## newtothegame (Jan 2, 2014)

alingva said:


> True but capital gain tax probably will be much more that the sales tax


Who pays tax on the capital gains of physical precious metals?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

You are supposed to report cap gain/loss on bullion.

The transaction is probably recorded with the CRA if you're buying from any bank


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i sold 4 ounces of gold a few years back to a local dealer for cash
i subtracted border gold shipping charges and came up with a cost base
and as I recall I reported a $60 capital gain or some such thing 
Since gold had popped and I covered the not insignificant spread between buying and selling the physical metal

Hint: don't buy the physical unless you are betting on a long term hold

Capital gains and losses on gold coins are fairly straightforward

I am in the process of selling my stamp collection, I have no idea what I paid for my 99% low value stamps ( i sell stamps for 1-2 dollars) at the end of the year I subtract the standard $1000 cost base and then my expenses and report my gains

I will be 65 in a few days, canada treats me well and fairly for my modest retirement income and any minute spent with cra trying to justify claims is time wasted so I just use honesty as the best approach


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## v_tofu (Apr 16, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> I get my gold from the local branch of the Royal Bank. They have the best prices, better than Scotia Mocatta or any other dealer I tried.
> 
> It is now 2 or 3 years since I bought gold but, at the time, they charged the 10 AM London Gold Fix price, plus $40 per ounce, plus a flat $15 delivery fee (for any amount of gold).
> 
> ...


Did they sell any fractional gold bars? Or was the smallest size 1 oz?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

They sell coins and bars smaller than 1 ounce. I bought the 1 ounce bars because they were the cheapest but there are other choices. You could check with your local bank or do a search. They can get whatever the Canadian mint turns out. The Post Office sells proof sets of collector coins, I don't know if they sell gold coins.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

While we are on the subject of gold.... the drop in the Canadian dollar has not hurt the value of my gold one iota. Just thought I would mention it and this thread seems as good a place as any.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

That's a good point. Something like that happened in 2008 as well. Though the price of gold "fell" in US dollars, the price in Canadian dollars remained quite constant and did not plummet.

What's most important to us is the value of gold versus the CAD


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

Is there a (simple) way for the average joe, with no trading accounts (so no gold co. shares or ETFS)or whatever to buy gold? (Say thru his bank, or whatever) I dont mean jewelry BTW.....actual gold, or gold certificates or whatever.
(sorry about all the "whatevers")


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## tygrus (Mar 13, 2012)

Canada mint.

I would actually buy gold and silver coin collectables. Better long term value.


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## new dog (Jun 21, 2016)

Buying easily identified items like coins and Canadian Maple's as an example is good because I would think it would be much easier to sell down the road in many more locations if one had to sell.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I merged this with an older thread that had some good answers on this. There are various ways to buy physical gold suggested above:

- at one of the big banks (RBC seems to have good prices)
- Border Gold or Kitco
- in person by walking into Scotia Plaza in downtown Toronto

Some of the TD Foreign Exchange Centers also have gold bars and coins available. Phone and see if the one near you carries it:
https://www.tdcanadatrust.com/produ...y-services/foreign-exchange-centres/index.jsp

The question is, will there be a delivery charge or do they actually have the gold there? I know the one in downtown Toronto has the gold on hand -- no delivery charge. Just walk in and buy some  Same with Scotia Plaza on King Street.



new dog said:


> Buying easily identified items like coins and Canadian Maple's as an example is good because I would think it would be much easier to sell down the road in many more locations if one had to sell.


Yes. Either buy the bars manufactured by well known refiners (LBMA's Good Delivery List) or Royal Canadian Mint Maple Leaf Coins. Preferably, in a decent plastic case which protects them from wear and tear. They will be much easier to sell in the future when it's clear (1) what they are (2) who made them (3) they have not been damaged.

The least expensive form of gold are bars or wafers, which you'll be able to buy for between 2% to 4% over spot price, ignoring delivery cost. And as mentioned above, if you can get to Toronto or one of the other locations with gold on hand, there is no delivery charge.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

i prefer online though i do buy from small dealers locally in person

i have had good experiences with bulliion people in toronto and also i like silver gold bull a lot

i am not a hardcore stacker or collector so i don't buy the cheapest (usually maples) but like to have variety

lately i have bought the queens beasts, the dragon and the griffin which hold a small premium over maples

also bought a somali coin and the kangaroo from perth mint

i like the variety and the beauty though for pure stacking just buy maples, especially the sealed bars from rcm and scotia


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

james4beach said:


> I merged this with an older thread that had some good answers on this. There are various ways to buy physical gold suggested above:
> 
> - at one of the big banks (RBC seems to have good prices)


An update, and retraction, in case anyone finds this old thread. Do not buy gold from RBC.

RBC has been caught selling fake gold bars to customers. This one was a counterfeit of a Royal Canadian Mint bar

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/fake-gold-wafer-rbc-canadian-mint-1.4368801
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pm...ays-phoney-gold-bar-was-a-counterfeit-attempt


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> An update, and retraction, in case anyone finds this old thread. Do not buy gold from RBC.
> 
> RBC has been caught selling fake gold bars to customers. This one was a counterfeit of a Royal Canadian Mint bar
> 
> ...


another strategy is to go to the mint website, read their instructions on counterfeits and carefully check the bar you are buying, this bar had packaging that was bogus also right ? ... the mint offers sealing, serial numbers and holograms which should be fine if you check them well


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

fatcat said:


> another strategy is to go to the mint website, read their instructions on counterfeits and carefully check the bar you are buying, this bar had packaging that was bogus also right ? ... the mint offers sealing, serial numbers and holograms which should be fine if you check them well


That may work if the one you buy is packaged in precisely the same way, but bars you buy from the big banks can come in different forms. I previously purchased Royal Canadian Mint bars (from a Big Five bank) that came in a different form of plastic, nothing like the one pictured in the story.

You also pay up front for bars before seeing them, so I'm not sure at what point you would refuse the bar if you don't like the look of it. I have traded gold bars a few times and I think that I would have trouble immediately telling if the bar is authentic, from just the look.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Apparently the premium over the gold value for numismatic is near record lows. In some cases the gold is worth more then the coins. Less chance of numismatic of being confiscated by government. I have never invested in numismatics though would tread carefully for possible scams.

If possible should hold some gold out of the country maybe in vaults in Switzerland as well as have 2 passports in case s--t hits the fan in Canada


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Not sure how one can measure the "premium over the gold value for numismatic is near record lows" across the board. The numismatic value has always been driven by a combination of external factors such as quality, quantity, demand, auctioning and timing. 

Choose well plus have these factors in your favour then the 0.9675oz coin that the gold price says melt value is about $2K may be estimated to be worth over $600K. Have the grade drop a bit from a 69 to a 62, then it is more like $25K. 

As an example, the 1907 $20 St. Gaudens, High Relief Double Eagle gold coin at top condition last sold in 2005 at $534K. eBay has prices for these coins that for a range of quality from $1500 to $50K.

All it takes for the value to change dramatically is a drop in popularity while trying to sell (or be in a rush) and/or someone find a lot of high grade ones where only a few are known today.


Cheers


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Martin Armstrong spent millions of dollars buying old Roman coins to have them melted down to determine how much gold was put into each coin. He wanted the data to plug into his computer to know the amount of gold the Romans into their money as their money aged. As the money aged less gold was put into coins. Though as technology advances maybe there are now or will be ways to test gold content without melting down.


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## Ctownguy (Nov 28, 2017)

*Newbie Question*

I'm considering buying some gold. Can anyone tell me why the bank (CIBC in my example) charges about $120 more for an ounce wafer, then it is advertised for on sites like Goldprice.org?


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

Scroll down to the bottom half.
- everything you need to know about premiums.

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-silver-and-gold-bullion-premiums-calculated/


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## number12spicy (Dec 19, 2017)

Hi all, first post.

I've recently started to think more towards investing, I have started to put some of my pay into a mutual fund and now as we are about to enter a new year I'd like to do something a little exciting and invest a bit into physical gold in the form of coins.

I love collecting and just browsing the royal Canadian mint site they seem to have some beautiful coins however I don't know if those would really grow, I love right now the the Dragon and Tiger Ying/Yang coin on their site but it seems a little high for the same amount of Gold as you would get in a regular maple leaf.

I believe I would like to start off with a 1oz maple leaf and then work my way into a American Buffalo and even a Chinese Panda as those are beautiful as well... what would you fine folks here suggest?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

number12spicy said:


> Hi all, first post.
> 
> I've recently started to think more towards investing, I have started to put some of my pay into a mutual fund and now as we are about to enter a new year I'd like to do something a little exciting and invest a bit into physical gold in the form of coins.
> 
> ...


just buy billion gold ... don’t buy rcm collectors coins, you spy way over spot though many of them are quite beautiful


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## number12spicy (Dec 19, 2017)

fatcat said:


> just buy billion gold ... don’t buy rcm collectors coins, you spy way over spot though many of them are quite beautiful


Should I just go with Maple Leafs? Or get a few of each? I don't intend to have a big collection at the start anyway plan to build a bit over time.

How come a couple of the American coins are a little more even though they have less gold? is it to do with the USD?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

number12spicy said:


> Should I just go with Maple Leafs? Or get a few of each? I don't intend to have a big collection at the start anyway plan to build a bit over time.
> 
> How come a couple of the American coins are a little more even though they have less gold? is it to do with the USD?


i collect gold coins in all sizes, i end up paying a premium because i like looking at different designs, chinese pandas are exceptionally beautiful coins and i recently bought a couple of 1/4 oz maples and 3gram panda and i paid $20 more for the panda just based on sheer beauty of the coin

if you are hardcore stacker and are really committed to as much precious metals as you can get, for whatever reason motivates you, then you would look for the cheapest product available, that could be bulk gold, like necklaces and rings or it could bullion old or new, the absolute best, rock bottom price is what you are after and beauty and design are of no importance

in canada generally, the best rock bottom price in gold bullion would be rcm maples, bought in whole ounces ... thats usually the cheapest

i like the beauty and the design of the coins so i buy a mix of everything and pay a small premium over the cheapest 

those american coins have some beautiful designs and so you pay extra, also any coin that isn't .999 pure is liable for tax in canada so that should guide your purchases

lately i use silvergoldbull and thebullionpeople and like and recommend them both, especially silvergoldbull


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A question for those of you with experience buying physical gold:

I plan to pick up a few more ounces of gold either as bars (wafers) or RCM Maple Leaf coins. I am not buying them for collection reasons or for beauty... the purpose is accumulation of liquid assets as part of my long term asset allocation. I buy them at the main branches of either Scotiabank or TD in downtown Toronto where they are available in inventory, and I can buy with no shipping charges. The bars can be purchased very close to spot market prices, as low as 2% to 4% premium to spot. The coins have a larger premium.

I'm concerned about that recent incident where Royal Bank sold a fake bar to a customer. There obviously are some fake bars in Royal's inventory, and that makes me question TD's inventory too. Presumably Scotia is more solid because their Mocatta division has very significant bullion holdings and they're supposed to be specialists in bullion. If Mocatta has fake bars, then we have some really big problems.

My question is, if you were going to buy 2 or 3 oz today, would you buy bars or Maple Leaf coins?


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## Speculator (May 9, 2018)

james4beach said:


> My question is, if you were going to buy 2 or 3 oz today, would you buy bars or Maple Leaf coins?


Maples in 1/4, 1/2 and 1 oz. denominations


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

I'm a maple leaf owner - I traded in my bars for leafs.. its legal tender & its a higher grade of gold.....


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> A question for those of you with experience buying physical gold:
> 
> I plan to pick up a few more ounces of gold either as bars (wafers) or RCM Maple Leaf coins. I am not buying them for collection reasons or for beauty... the purpose is accumulation of liquid assets as part of my long term asset allocation. I buy them at the main branches of either Scotiabank or TD in downtown Toronto where they are available in inventory, and I can buy with no shipping charges. The bars can be purchased very close to spot market prices, as low as 2% to 4% premium to spot. The coins have a larger premium.
> 
> ...


i use silvergoldbull, anything over $500 is free delivery and they are super tight on how they move their coins, very safe ... i just bought some chinese pandas and an rcm 1-ounce bar which i promptly traded locally for a maple since i bought a beautiful little coin album to hold my gold coins and the bar won't fit, only round coins

but honestly these bars are excellent, sealed and numbered: https://silvergoldbull.ca/1-oz-royal-canadian-mint-new-style-gold-bar
$1641.00 ... don't know how that compares to mocatta ... maple rounds are $10 more

either are good and about the same i think james ... the sealed bars are automatically protected which is nice

i just traded it with a local gold dealer who i know, he just weighed the bar and thats all, the counterfeiting of this product is very very low

just buy from someone who deals direct with the mint



> hfp75
> I'm a maple leaf owner - I traded in my bars for leafs.. its legal tender & its a higher grade of gold.....​


rcm maples are not more pure than bars by any means, both are .9999 ... what do you mean by "higher grade of gold" ?


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## MarcoE (May 3, 2018)

What is the advantage of physical gold (coins or bars) as opposed to investing in gold ETFs such as CGL.C from iShares?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

MarcoE said:


> What is the advantage of physical gold (coins or bars) as opposed to investing in gold ETFs such as CGL.C from iShares?


armageddon coverage ... guaranteed access ... no government interference ... private ... gold is beautiful to look and hold ... 

i would say most gold lovers have both ... if you have a large gold allocation, physical requires a fair bit of work and there are zero ways to hold physical without some risk


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts above. Sounds like both Maple Leafs and bars are good options. I already have quite a few bars, so I may add more Maple Leafs this time.

I have a mix of physical + MNT.TO + IAU. What's the advantage of physical gold?

In my view, there are 2 main appeals of gold. First is the obvious one: it's a different asset class, it has low correlations with stocks and bonds, it improves portfolios (asset allocation), it acts as insurance against fiat collapse, and tends to preserve value long term. The second is quite different: *gold is a hard asset*. It's not an electronic asset that just lives in some financial intermediary's records. I'm not a property owner, so virtually all of my net worth is in electronic/paper form. The only thing I own that lives outside of that electronic world is my physical gold, and a few minor possessions. _So it's diversification along a completely different dimension_. Other examples of that are land, property, and business ownership.

The first advantage of gold is beautifully achieved by the ETFs. You simply sprinkle some MNT or whatever into your portfolio, and reap the benefits. Great!

That second advantage of gold requires that you directly hold physical gold. ETFs are an electronic experience and your "ownership" is very indirect, through a chain of intermediaries. When you hold stocks or ETFs, you place trust in the intermediate entities and history has shown has several examples where those people or institutions fail to be trustworthy. For example, you have to trust both the custodian (e.g. iShares) and the sub custodian (which includes institutions like JP Morgan, HSBC, and the Bank of England) to be honest and accurate with their record keeping. You have to trust that they aren't playing shenanigans such as lending out your gold to others. You also have to trust your brokerage, and believe that they aren't playing shenanigans with your share holdings in your account.

The very popular GLD for example has a complex mix of sub custodians, and last time I looked into this, some of the gold is held at the Bank of England. How much do I trust the BoE, in a foreign jurisdiction? The fund's assets can swing around wildly, by millions of dollars a day, and this requires that ownership of gold is shifted to and from the GLD ETF on a daily basis -- accurately. How are they doing that? Do they ever make mistakes? Do they ever take shortcuts?

I generally trust those intermediaries, and most of my gold ownership is via ETFs. But physical gold offers me a bit of diversification in case they turn out to be crooks, in case they make some horrible mistakes, or if there turns out to be a pervasive scam throughout the financial system. 2008 should drive home the point that systemic scams and frauds are a real possibility, and financial middle men can't always be trusted.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

^ You would recommend IAU James? That's what you were just purchasing a few weeks ago if I remember, yes?





fatcat said:


> armageddon coverage ... guaranteed access ... no government interference ... private ... gold is beautiful to look and hold ...
> 
> i would say most gold lovers have both ... if you have a large gold allocation, physical requires a fair bit of work and there are zero ways to hold physical without some risk


Far out there question, but what's the most reliable way to buy gold fully anonymously and off the books? Coin shows/shops? pawn shops? Kijiji? Buying from a major gold dealer, with a credit card, sent to your home address, kept in in a bank safebox..... If the government ever wants that gold back some day, they'll know exactly who to go looking for.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

peterk said:


> You would recommend IAU James? That's what you were just purchasing a few weeks ago if I remember, yes?


I think IAU is a pretty good one but still prefer MNT as it's domiciled in Canada. I bought some IAU recently because I had cash available in my US retirement plan. My gold is: 12% physical, 40% IAU, 48% MNT... and I'm trying to increase the proportion in physical.

IAU (iShares US) is better than GLD as it has lower fees and therefore higher performance. But both are based in the US, subject to US laws (big potential problem there) and store gold internationally (another potential problem).

MNT is based in Canada, only subject to Canadian laws, and the gold is physically stored at the Mint. This is a big fund, $432 million, and usually bigger is better.

CGL.C (iShares Canada) is also based in Canada, and the gold is physically in Canada. It's actually in the vaults under the Scotia Plaza head office in Toronto. This is a good option as well, though the fund is only $97 million (tiny) and has lower daily volumes. This makes it a little less useful than MNT in practice. If this fund becomes larger, I'd be happy to swap IAU for CGL.C.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

peterk said:


> ^ You would recommend IAU James? That's what you were just purchasing a few weeks ago if I remember, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i think that the level of bureacracy and determination of the government would have to be very high to track down all the known buyers of gold and this would be known quickly and people would be able to act first and then when the government comes calling just say "i sold it" "i lost it" "somebody stole it" whatever ...

franklin roosevelt famously (executive order 6102) confiscated all gold (most, you were allowed to keep some) under threat of going to prison if you didn't comply, people were required to turn in their gold

i doubt the government could get away with that today but you never know

as to the question of a reliable off-the-books way to acquire gold, the easiest thing to do is just go to a reasonably large city and find the local well-established gold dealer and pay with cash ... most dealers deal in fairly large sums of cash

though james has warned against counterfeits which do exist though rarely, most reputable and long-standing dealers are smart and know the genuine article when they see it and you will get real gold 99% of the time

there are tools to test well known gold coins that are highly accurate like fisch scale which is a well known method

https://www.thefisch.com


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## MarcoE (May 3, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I generally trust those intermediaries, and most of my gold ownership is via ETFs. But physical gold offers me a bit of diversification in case they turn out to be crooks, in case they make some horrible mistakes, or if there turns out to be a pervasive scam throughout the financial system. 2008 should drive home the point that systemic scams and frauds are a real possibility, and financial middle men can't always be trusted.


So it's apocalypse insurance.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MarcoE said:


> So it's apocalypse insurance.


I often hear this reaction, but I don't think it's for an apocalypse. An apocalypse is something like a meteor hitting earth or outbreak of war, global pandemic. But gold is valuable in far less extreme, and _far more commonly occurring_ scenarios. Just in the last few years: 2008 financial crisis, Iceland's currency collapse in 2008, and the currency collapses in Argentina and Turkey that are happening as we speak.

In 2008, gold was up +28% in CAD.


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## MarcoE (May 3, 2018)

james4beach said:


> I often hear this reaction, but I don't think it's for an apocalypse. An apocalypse is something like a meteor hitting earth or outbreak of war, global pandemic. But gold is valuable in far less extreme, and _far more commonly occurring_ scenarios. Just in the last few years: 2008 financial crisis, Iceland's currency collapse in 2008, and the currency collapses in Argentina and Turkey that are happening as we speak.
> 
> In 2008, gold was up +28% in CAD.


Not "civilization wiped out" apocalypse, no. If the world is overrun with zombies, you need weapons and food, not gold. That's when you become a prepper and begin stocking your bunker with canned goods...

But what's happening in Venezuela right now, for example, is practically apocalypse level, just one level dialed back from zombies. Maybe "crisis insurance" is a better word than "apocalypse." I do invest in gold via ETFs, but this thread convinced me of the benefits of owning hard, cold physical gold too.

Suppose we get a horribly incompetent government in Canada. Suppose our economy and currency utterly collapses, like in Venezuela right now. Suppose we even need to flee the country. Will my gold ETFs help? Will they even be accessible? I don't know. But if I own physical golden coins--that will still work as currency. Einstein probably felt safe in Europe until the Nazis took over. People probably felt safe in many other countries ... until they didn't. Vietnam during the war, China after Mao took over, the list goes on and on... dozens of examples. If you suddenly need to flee with your family, a few golden coins might help. Paper or electronic currency might not. In case of collapse, if you own physical gold -- coins or bars -- you'll be able to use them. Either to hunker down for a few years until the disaster blows over, or even use them to buy passage out of the country.

The likelihood of a stable economy like Canada's collapsing like Venezuela is very remote. But even if the likelihood is only 1%, it doesn't hurt to keep a few golden coins around. Just in case.


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## MarcoE (May 3, 2018)

Thoughts on buying Maple Leaf coins online from Kitco? Good source? https://online.kitco.com/buy/3110/1-oz-Gold-Canadian-Maple-Leaf-Coin-9999-3110

Or would you guys recommend buying Maple Leaf coins from a bank branch instead?

Any thoughts on Maple Leaf coins vs. bars?


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

MarcoE said:


> But what's happening in Venezuela right now, for example, is practically apocalypse level . . . The likelihood of a stable economy like Canada's collapsing like Venezuela is very remote. But even if the likelihood is only 1%, it doesn't hurt to keep a few golden coins around. Just in case.


I agree with you there. Canada is likely to remain solvent and well managed for a very long time, and I don't really think the CAD could fail within my lifetime.

But I think more general financial market catastrophes are far more likely. How about the possibility that global central banks mismanage all this QE business and induce runaway inflation? How about a Bank of Canada that refuses to let housing correct, and irresponsibly prints money to rescue housing, to the detriment of the CAD? Or another derivatives-based financial crisis, since none of these banks have stopped doing what they were doing in 2007... I'd say the odds of something like that happening are pretty high.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

MarcoE said:


> Thoughts on buying Maple Leaf coins online from Kitco? Good source? https://online.kitco.com/buy/3110/1-oz-Gold-Canadian-Maple-Leaf-Coin-9999-3110
> 
> Or would you guys recommend buying Maple Leaf coins from a bank branch instead?
> 
> Any thoughts on Maple Leaf coins vs. bars?


kitco is long established and has very good reputation ... i didn't like their process, prices and selection compared to silvergoldbull.ca or bordergold.com in vancouver both of whom i have dealt with and both of whom are stellar ... unlike james i found scotia mocatta to be pricey

yeah, it isn't a zombie attack but the collapse of currency that you worry about which is hopefully unlikely anytime soon in canada


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

fatcat said:


> franklin roosevelt famously (executive order 6102) confiscated all gold (most, you were allowed to keep some) under threat of going to prison if you didn't comply, people were required to turn in their gold
> 
> i doubt the government could get away with that today but you never know


So in an era when people thought gold was money and stood steadfastly against government intrusions - the government *still* took the gold away.

Today almost nobody thinks gold is money, almost nobody cares about government intrusions, everyone is used to it. Hardly a peep would be heard if they decided to take away the gold this time...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

peterk said:


> So in an era when people thought gold was money and stood steadfastly against government intrusions - the government *still* took the gold away.
> 
> Today almost nobody thinks gold is money, almost nobody cares about government intrusions, everyone is used to it. Hardly a peep would be heard if they decided to take away the gold this time...


That's a very good point. For example Norway and Sweden are talking about eliminating paper cash, and people to be OK with that too.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

A follow-up question on Maple Leaf gold coins. Do any of you ever buy the fractional ones, such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/10 oz? Are they just as good as the world standard 1 oz pieces?


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> A follow-up question on Maple Leaf gold coins. Do any of you ever buy the fractional ones, such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/10 oz? Are they just as good as the world standard 1 oz pieces?


sure, its all gold ... they command a premium so i don't buy too much fractional but i mainly do for a) aesthetic reasons and b) the theory that if things get so bad we will be using gold for money, you will want to have some smaller pieces ... but i would recommend some of the brit gold or aussie or african fractional pieces which are much more interesting than maples

good article on gold in the globe https://www.theglobeandmail.com/inv...g-its-lustre-why-investors-are-shunning-gold/


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

james4beach said:


> A follow-up question on Maple Leaf gold coins. Do any of you ever buy the fractional ones, such as 1/2, 1/4, 1/10 oz? Are they just as good as the world standard 1 oz pieces?


The smaller coins cost more..... by the weight.... I stick to 1oz leafs....


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks fatcat and hfp75


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

just bought a couple of these, paid $5 more than a maple ($1623), but a lot more beautiful coin

View attachment 18932


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Just FYI for anyone else who may be interested. I checked TD and Scotia, at their PM desks, and after fees and everything the 1 oz Maple Leaf can be purchased at 6% to 7% premium to spot gold price. The 1/2 oz has 8% premium to spot gold at Scotia.

Smaller coins like 1/10 oz indeed get more expensive, with 15% premium to spot gold.

Buying in USD gives the best price, otherwise they bake in another 1.5% to 3% FX fee if you buy in CAD.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Just FYI for anyone else who may be interested. I checked TD and Scotia, at their PM desks, and after fees and everything the 1 oz Maple Leaf can be purchased at 6% to 7% premium to spot gold price. The 1/2 oz has 8% premium to spot gold at Scotia.
> 
> Smaller coins like 1/10 oz indeed get more expensive, with 15% premium to spot gold.
> 
> Buying in USD gives the best price, otherwise they bake in another 1.5% to 3% FX fee if you buy in CAD.


in us dollars and canadian dollars, silvergoldbull is selling 1-oz maples for 4.1% over spot (1259.21/1207.15) (CAD 1638.91/1571.03)

they charge no markup or exchange if you buy in canadian dollars, you merely switch currencies at the top of the page


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## FIRE40 (Sep 27, 2017)

Is there a reason why you'd prefer to buy coins as opposed to bullion? There is a little bit of a premium on those, but I suppose you expect to get that back too...

Was just looking at Scotia (from what I remember they were the one leading the way for precious metals from a big 5 point of view), and it looks like they charge $14 US premium on spot price, when paying in USD. That works out to a little over %1 at the current rates.
https://www.scotiamocatta.com/products/bullion.htm

I happen to be receiving some USD dollars which will be going to my investment portfolio. I'm considering adding a little gold as another layer of diversification.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

FIRE40 said:


> Is there a reason why you'd prefer to buy coins as opposed to bullion? There is a little bit of a premium on those, but I suppose you expect to get that back too...
> 
> Was just looking at Scotia (from what I remember they were the one leading the way for precious metals from a big 5 point of view), and it looks like they charge $14 US premium on spot price, when paying in USD. That works out to a little over %1 at the current rates.
> https://www.scotiamocatta.com/products/bullion.htm
> ...


the scotia mocatta estore is closed so you can't compare online ... if indeed they are selling for 1% over spot i would love to know about though i really doubt it


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Scotia wants significantly more than spot for 1 oz Maple Leafs. I just priced it with their retail FX/PM near today's close (this is one of their locations where you can buy and pick up immediately).

With spot gold at 1212 USD, Scotia is selling 1 oz Maple Leafs for 1300 USD + 0.5% fee = 1307 USD total. That's $95 premium or 7.8% over spot.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I picked up one of the 1/10 oz Maple Leafs at Scotia today (pay USD cash, get the coin). Quite impressive, it's about the size of a penny and still has those high density radial lines. Sure, I paid about $25 CAD premium to spot price, but that doesn't seem like an outlandish cost, plus it's sealed in plastic.


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> I picked up one of the 1/10 oz Maple Leafs at Scotia today (pay USD cash, get the coin). Quite impressive, it's about the size of a penny and still has those high density radial lines. Sure, I paid about $25 CAD premium to spot price, but that doesn't seem like an outlandish cost, plus it's sealed in plastic.


here are a couple of 1/10 ouncers i have bought recently, chinese panda (3gm) and somali elephant (1/10 ounce)

View attachment 18938

View attachment 18940
View attachment 18942


as you say, about the size of a dime


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

That's quite something, thanks for sharing. So far I've only bought RCM but I'm open to buying others in the future.

I must say that this 1/10 format is quite convenient. This is quite a sensible unit.

I'm intrigued that some of these online sources have 1 oz coins with much smaller premiums than what the Canadian banks are charging. But is the gold in equally good shape? I've bought several bars and coins from Scotia & TD, and each one has been in perfect shape so far. Do you get items that are in equally good shape when buying from those other retailers?


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

not too long ago RBC was selling fake gold at a branch out east somewhere. Obviously it was a bad employee but still....


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

The problem with gold is when technology becomes so advanced in the future it could be made cheaply by rearranging atoms.

A few Swiss insurance companies do offer a gold annuity min 250,000 Swiss Francs also can do self invested pension plan


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## fatcat (Nov 11, 2009)

james4beach said:


> That's quite something, thanks for sharing. So far I've only bought RCM but I'm open to buying others in the future.
> 
> I must say that this 1/10 format is quite convenient. This is quite a sensible unit.
> 
> I'm intrigued that some of these online sources have 1 oz coins with much smaller premiums than what the Canadian banks are charging. But is the gold in equally good shape? I've bought several bars and coins from Scotia & TD, and each one has been in perfect shape so far. Do you get items that are in equally good shape when buying from those other retailers?


i have dealt with bordergold, the bullion people and my favourite silvergoldbull

silvergoldbull and bordergold are standout bullion dealers, bordergold is like decades old

they buy from the mint just like the banks do ... these companies have reputations to uphold, if bad words start to go around in the bullion community they are not going to prosper so i have found their service and products to be stellar

don't forget it was the banks (rbc) caught selling a fake, not a retail dealer ... if you ever pass through the border at blaine, you can pick up your order in person at bordergold

lately i have been very loyal to silvergoldbull and have had excellent, stellar service and every coin has been immaculate, if it wasn't i would return it and they would take it back i am certain


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Mene sells 24k gold & 24k platinum jewelry based on the market value of the weight of the gold & will buy their jewelry back. mark up is never more then 20%. Anyone buying jewelry I do think it is the way to go to buy pure gold instead of 14k or 18k gold that is a gold alloy which does not have the same properties as real gold yet is marked up 80% plus.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

fatcat said:


> they buy from the mint just like the banks do ... these companies have reputations to uphold, if bad words start to go around in the bullion community they are not going to prosper so i have found their service and products to be stellar
> 
> don't forget it was the banks (rbc) caught selling a fake, not a retail dealer ... if you ever pass through the border at blaine, you can pick up your order in person at bordergold


You're right, the incident was with RBC. Next time I will buy my gold from a private dealer.


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## hfp75 (Mar 15, 2018)

I use Albern Coin in Calgary. I think they have a price list online too...


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## number12spicy (Dec 19, 2017)

Revisiting this thread and I have started my stacking journey with a tube of the new incuse silver maple leaf. I know they are a little more expensive but they just so nice.

I've decided to start with Silver and buy a little gold at a time I figure i will buy 1 oz of gold for every 100oz of Silver I have and want to buy around 50 oz of Silver a month for the next little bit.

Will do maples to start and then maybe buy a few collector coins i love those Queen's Beasts


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## number12spicy (Dec 19, 2017)

Bump.


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