# The top 1% in Canada



## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Interesting article. Thoughts?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/who-are-canada-s-top-1-1.1703321



> According to the 2011 survey, there were 272,600 Canadians who had incomes of at least $191,100 in 2010. That hefty number was the cutoff to make it into the top one per cent of Canadian income earners.
> 
> That $191,100 is just the minimum to squeak into the one per cent club. Most of the people in that category earned much more. The average income among the top one per cent was twice that — $381,300.
> 
> To put this level of income into perspective, that’s almost 10 times the average Canadian income of $38,700.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The wealth gap continues to grow.

Any improvement in the economy is sopped up by the wealthy............leaving only the crumbs of recovery to the peasants.


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

kool I fall into the top 10% if they include rental incomes. Guess they don't include sport athletes. We've got lots of hockey millionaires or they don't pay taxes?

Interesting most 1%er lives in Alberta considering population wise how small it is compared to Toronto and Vancouver where houses are a lot more expensive.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I was reading on yahoo's "golden girl finance blog" they do include investment income, not sure how credible that site is.
If so this would be an easy way to up your %


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

It's realized income which, as you go up the wealth ladder, is a smaller and smaller component of overall wealth.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Clearly "income" is a poor indicator of wealth, although in this case it seems they are talking more specifically about the "top 1% of earners" as opposed to the top 1% in terms of wealth. There's a big difference.

For example, I know a couple in Boston who earn about $150K/year and yet last year they gave away half their income to charity and this year they're on track to give away even more. They would be considered wealthy in terms of their income, but in terms of assets they'd be classed much lower: no house, no car, some limited retirement investments, that's about it.


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## Homerhomer (Oct 18, 2010)

The main point of this article is that Statistics Canada is for the most part useless organization and majority of what they do is pretty much worthless.
Folks can feel really successfull after reading the statistics, however since it's based on a survey and the fact that students working weekends at macdonald, stay at home parents who choose not to work, etc etc etc may not exactly give us an adequate picture of how we are doing in comparison.
I am a top 10%,wooooooohooo, mind you being stuck in the traffic on daily basis and being surrounded by all the bmw's, Mercedes, lexuses and so on I kind of think I am in the bottom 10 ;-)


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Homerhomer said:


> mind you being stuck in the traffic on daily basis and being surrounded by all the bmw's, Mercedes, lexuses and so on I kind of think I am in the bottom 10 ;-)


Although keep in mind that those cars are not indicators of wealth, in many cases they could simply be a display of leveraged living and debt.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I guess if you're retired and have a multimillion dollar net worth which you made through investing wisely you'd be classified as the bottom 1%...

I wonder if they'd qualify for welfare?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

If you define OAS as "welfare," absolutely possible!


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

How about the after tax difference? I would estimate the average 1%'er pays 2-3 times in taxes what the average Canadian makes in gross income. If the pre-tax difference is 10 times, the after tax difference is probably 6-7 times which unfortunately isn't as newsworthy.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Three of my employees will be 1%ers this year up from just 1 last year (hopefully 5 by next year).


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## SpendLessEarnMore (Aug 7, 2013)

lol I hear ya. I can't even get a LOC being a supposedly 10%er. Here I am driving my little scooter around town surrounded by pick-up trucks everywhere in CowTown where most of the 1%er comes from. 



Homerhomer said:


> The main point of this article is that Statistics Canada is for the most part useless organization and majority of what they do is pretty much worthless.
> Folks can feel really successfull after reading the statistics, however since it's based on a survey and the fact that students working weekends at macdonald, stay at home parents who choose not to work, etc etc etc may not exactly give us an adequate picture of how we are doing in comparison.
> I am a top 10%,wooooooohooo, mind you being stuck in the traffic on daily basis and being surrounded by all the bmw's, Mercedes, lexuses and so on I kind of think I am in the bottom 10 ;-)


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Ihatetaxes said:


> Three of my employees will be 1%ers this year up from just 1 last year (hopefully 5 by next year).


To be fair operating your business out of a van down by the river gives you a competitive advantage not widely available.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I found the article a really silly way to do comparisons. 

It included 15 year olds and others that shouldn't be included for a fair comparison.

How about for people who are out of school for x years that are working full time or something like that

Average incomes mean nothing. The average income in alberta is much higher than the other provinces, s of course it would make sense that there are more 1% people there.

What really is the purpose of the study. There will be some people that make more, and there will always be 1% of the population that does something better, worst, different, ect. So what? I just don't nder sand the question the survey was trying to answer or perhaps present.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

It isn't a study, just a survey. StatsCan isn't trying to prove anything with the National Household Survey; it is a survey of Canadians on various social and economic indicators. The income composition data was released last week, hence various articles about income distribution in Canada this week. The NHS is much more than a survey of income data. 

By convention censuses around the world use age 15 as a proxy for "adult" and have done so for more than 100 years.


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

I guess its individual income, i wonder what the percentage is for household income?


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Hawkdog, I am curious about that as well... only by combining my wife's salary and mine can we match the individual 1% income level, and just barely... still, we are not hurting. :tongue-new:


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## Hawkdog (Oct 26, 2012)

Jon_Snow said:


> Hawkdog, I am curious about that as well... only by combining my wife's salary and mine can we match the individual 1% income level, and just barely... still, we are not hurting. :tongue-new:


ya same here, not likely i ever reach the 1% on my own!


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I refuse to succumb to the rhetoric of the media, and will do the opposite of what this articles intentions towards me are. I will revere the smart and hardworking 1% and use their success for personal motivation!

Only 70k more to go. 8-9 years by my estimation... 1% here I come!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

Related:


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Sometimes it seems that these reports are based on 'garbage in, garbage out' kind of surveys. If one is a business owner or an incorporated professional, what is the income that is reported on such a survey. Is it what is pulled out of the business as a salary or it is the total profit generated by the business? It would seem that if one is wise, a large part of the income would be retained inside the business and not result in a high income. On information based on personal tax returns, there can be a very large discrepancy even though this seems like an iron-clad way to obtain data.


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## uptoolate (Oct 9, 2011)

Great video! :chuncky:


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Don't get too cocky, older folks.

Us "millennials" are the only source of future cashflow that you are relying on to pay ALL your future needs -- we're the ones you expect are going to buy up all the stocks you'll be dumping to fund retirement; funding all the bloated government programs, old age security; providing all the money to make those under-funded pension plans deliver the benefits you're counting on.

It's a generational ponzi scheme and I suspect us millennials will be where it all stops... simply because we will never have the income needed to perpetuate this game.

Hope I'm wrong, because it would be kind of nice to still have CPP and OAS when I retire


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## daddybigbucks (Jan 30, 2011)

$191,000 is only $95.5/hour based on a 2000 hour work year.

i think that number is wayyy low.


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## bgc_fan (Apr 5, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Don't get too cocky, older folks.
> 
> Us "millennials" are the only source of future cashflow that you are relying on to pay ALL your future needs -- we're the ones you expect are going to buy up all the stocks you'll be dumping to fund retirement; funding all the bloated government programs, old age security; providing all the money to make those under-funded pension plans deliver the benefits you're counting on.
> 
> ...


That's a good point. While salaries and standards of living in Canada have been rising at a pretty good clip for the past decades, there may be a slow down which would limit both the price of stocks and houses. Of course, if you want to consider that the 1% will always have the funds, liquidity will be an issue as the general public would not be able to afford what current stockholders and homeowners believe their goods are worth. Either they compromise on the price (bring down the market) or hold on. I doubt it would be a sudden phenomena, but it may be interesting to see.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Don't get too cocky, older folks.
> 
> Us "millennials" are the only source of future cashflow that you are relying on to pay ALL your future needs -- we're the ones you expect are going to buy up all the stocks you'll be dumping to fund retirement; funding all the bloated government programs, old age security; providing all the money to make those under-funded pension plans deliver the benefits you're counting on.
> 
> ...


...is this...directed at people here? [need head-scratching smiley]


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

james4beach said:


> Don't get too cocky, older folks.
> 
> Us "millennials" ...



james4 are you 34 today, as you used to post, or has your age dropped down to the more recent 30 years (?)

which reminds me, are you a "financial consultant" who "sells research" to "clients" as you often post, or are you an electrical engineer as you more recently declare (?)

(signed)
Secret Life of Walter Ponzi


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

^ thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one confused about j4b. I enjoy his posts, but find him contradictory.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Although I was in the 1% while working, investment income now is well below that level. Barely into OAS clawback territory now. And that includes a non-COLA DB pension. I look back fondly on those that counted on 9% return on investment when retired. I stay in touch with the employment scene through mentoring, as well as sons and grandchildren.

I agree that it is much tougher for young people today. Their lifestyles are much better though. Our only extravagance was going to the pub on Friday night. Maybe a movie on Saturday.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I think back when we were family of 4 with one house and one car making about $60,000 a year and wonder how we did it .I am now in the top 1% and here is what happens when you get there.Suddenly you need a vacation spot to go and of course it has to be waterfront which then requires a boat.The boat is big so of course you now need a big truck to pull it twice a year in and out of the water.Now your house you had for 10 years that you loved one day looks like crap and feels like a box so you need a bigger house and of course you need the bigger garage to put the big truck and the family car.I could go on about all this other stuff that we have accumulated but the reality is we take a $20,000 a month pay cheque and I am flat broke paying for stuff lol.Of course I am not broke we are sitting on a lot of money in our Biz ,retirement etc but we really do make $240,000 gross a year and spend it.In 2016 thank god our expenses decrease by $8600 a month(accelerated mortgages are killing me!) and then our income needs will be more in line with 'normal' folks .BTW Cottage for sale with boat in 2016 lol


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

marina628 said:


> I am now in the top 1% and here is what happens when you get there.


Mmmm, more precisely, here is what happened when _you_ got there. ;-)

Our gross income is $240K also, but we don't have any of that stuff! One house (less than 1,000 square feet), one car (8-year old basic Toyota), no boat, no cottage, no garage. Most of our income goes to retirement investments, paying down the mortgage, and donations to charity; we live on the remaining 25%. I hear you on the accelerated mortgage; that should be paid off in 4 years and then I'll double my charitable donations and sock the rest into beefing up our retirement investments so we can actually retire before our late 70s. ;-)


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

hmph! - and here we live off <$30000 a year.

marina628, none of that is 'need'. It's all 'want'.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

peterk said:


> I will revere the smart and *hardworking* 1% and use their success for personal motivation!


+1.

You'll get where you want to be!


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## none (Jan 15, 2013)

....


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Retired Peasant said:


> hmph! - and here we live off <$30000 a year.


We're in the same general ballpark.....although this year, with three 'international' vacations, it's up a tad.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

You are correct none is a need , all is a want .I have worked very hard and so have my husband for what we have today.The worst day of my life ended up being the best day of my life as I have repeated more than once here .While building myself back up after my car accident I actually had time to think about what I wanted in my life .Even when I join here almost 3 years ago I had a very large insurance settlement in the bank ,my goal back then was to build a separate fund of about $100,000 that I could put aside for 20 years to take care of any future medical expenses.Little did I know a couple years later sell off part of my business for life changing amount.We have enough now so I am 46 years old and in the fun stage of life.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

If you guys want motivation in 2006 I made $33108.76 from my website that I built myself ,this is what I was making from my affiliate income , Google adsense etc.Last month this same site earned $26751.72 ,I kept this site and sold the rest of my 100+ sites earlier this year.I broke into first page of Google , Bing , Yahoo for some big skin care names ,Audiobooks ,Ghillie Suits , Patio Furniture , Big Software terms such as Adobe ,Norton's Internet Security, quick tax etc .I just bought a ten year old credit card domain so going to see if it is true that you can make $100,000 a month if you rank for prepaid credit cards lol


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

$33k + from your website? Geez. Awesome.

I only wish mine could make that much.

Hint, hint, more visitors


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

Yes I should earn about $300,000 this year ,Do you make use of your mailing list?Some publishers give affiliates coupons which we can share with our visitors .For example if I am going to make $15.00 on a product I can choose to give $5.00 off as a coupon that gives me advantage over my competition.You have to sell stuff to make money ,the adsense alone is not enough although we have hit as much as $9000 one month back in 2012.I am in process to get the site up in a mobile version so that should help significantly but a slow process for us.
I need to get back to writing my book for affiliates lol.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> james4 are you 34 today, as you used to post, or has your age dropped down to the more recent 30 years (?)


I think I'm a millennial... I'm 31


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## Jon_Snow (May 20, 2009)

Retired Peasant said:


> hmph! - and here we live off <$30000 a year.
> 
> marina628, none of that is 'need'. It's all 'want'.


The sweet spot for us is 30k as well. We live the life we want quite easily on that. This past year we grossed about 190k (2 incomes). The thought of a lifestyle in which we spend all that is quite unappealing. The amount of useless crap I'd have to buy boggles the mind. Of course, a welcome by product of not living up to our income level is that financial independence/early retirement is not only possible, but actually unavoidable. 

I have no interest in becoming part of the 1% club.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Nice seeing these numbers from everyone else... I also live on an average of 34k a year. And that includes a lot of world travel


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> The thought of a lifestyle in which we spend all that is quite unappealing. The amount of useless crap I'd have to buy boggles the mind. Of course, a welcome by product of not living up to our income level is that financial independence/early retirement is not only possible, but actually unavoidable.


+1

The millennials are definitely "special" but they're not all to blame. The preceding generations dreamt this magical system of printing money would just keep getting exponentially better for every future generation? It will either come back to bite them, or just rinse and repeat the cycle for the next. Working efficiently is better than working hard and of course money isn't everything.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Jon_Snow said:


> The thought of a lifestyle in which we spend all that [$190K/yr.] is quite unappealing......*The amount of useless crap I'd have to buy boggles the mind*.


Indeed totally unappealing. 

Does not please me at all to spend for the sake of spending, even when easily affordable. I don't even replace anything until it has to be. Certainly don't update cars every 4 years, nor phones every year, etc., etc. [just my wardrobe].  

There is the belief that the more you have, the more you want, and that's true for some, but it's never been like that for me, not even as a teenager; quite the contrary. Having less clutter in general, gives greater time to focus on things that truly enrich my life, not fills it with material stuff. 

How did people manage with one house/one car/one tv/one phone/one vacation/1+ kids, and not all that long ago? I'm guessing they were happier than many people today with all the luxuries money can buy them, and probably they also suffered less stress/unhappiness.

- I dislike the club of grumblers, constant pessimists & those who lack motivation & desire to learn. 
- I hate clutter/consumerism.
- I like to learn {via many ways, ie: travel}/donate/and save much more than spend. And I'm certainly not 'joyless'. :rolleyes2: 

*'So please ignore those joyless, soul-sapping, censorious puritans who insist on how rotten and corrupt we are. Deck the halls and buy a few more ecologically irresponsible gifts (no goats, please). Indulgence isn’t the worst thing in the world. ’Tis the season of abundance, and we should celebrate, not let ourselves be guilted out.'*

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/consumerism-is-good-for-the-soul/article6387110/


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## Karen (Jul 24, 2010)

Well said, Toronto.gal!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I gave $50,000 to Princess Margaret last month ,best feeling of my life ,rephrase my business gave $50,000 for year end


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Did you donate stocks that had appreciated? I hope so!


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

No I donated straight cash but we got $x,xxx,xxx from sale of some assets this year so sitting on quite a bit of cash.This was so my brother could pick his own name place at Princess Margaret ,we wanted him to see this and we are setting up a fund in his name .Our accountant is going to help us with things but we want to take $100,000 and donate the revenue from it every year to his fund.The donation went to his specific cancer and we know it is too late to save him but we hope one day they will save another family from our pain.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> To be fair operating your business out of a van down by the river gives you a competitive advantage not widely available.


It's a 5,000 square foot van worth $1.5M ($24k in property tax so land by the river ain't cheap).


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Huh. That's some van! You don't have a business associate named Gus Fring, by any chance?


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Poor Gus, I guess he got what was coming to him. So sad the final episode is tonight. Will Walt finally bite the bullet? It's not looking good for Jessie. Such a great show.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

haha! Someone picked up on my BB reference. :love-struck: 

(That smiley is called "love-struck," I intended it to communicate "drug-induced haze"). (Not my drug-induced haze.)

Although I don't think BB is the absolute greatest show ever (and I'm not sure what I would put in that slot), it has been my companion through thousands of miles flown over the last few years. BB is a little constant in my life and I've been grateful!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Please everyone NO SPOILERS


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