# 26, in process of creating a financial life plan. Looking for help.



## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

Hey all,

I joined the forum awhile ago and have been looking through the posts. I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to help me take a look at my situation.

I'm 26, university grad as a pharmacist and have the potential to make approx. $90,000 a year (gross). I'm only working part-time at the moment in order to travel and focus on other projects, like financial independence. Currently my annual wage is closer to $35-45,000 a year (gross).

I have no debts at all, but no assets either. My monthly spendings equal to about $1500 at most, including rent, car, gas, good, entertainment, etc.

My dream in life is to have the financial independence to work minimally or not at all (or only when I want to), and at the same time afford my current lifestyle - plus more. In concrete terms, my financial goal is to have:
-$25,000/year in passive income within 2 years or sooner
-$50,000 - $100,000 in passive income within 5 years or sooner (in preparation for increased spending, e.g. if I start a family, etc).

I have been looking at ways that I can achieve this. Right now, I'm investigating options like starting an internet business, buying a condo and renting it out (and building equity on it), among other things. I have no financial background, but I do learn pretty quickly and am very motivated to succeed, especially if someone points me in the right direction.


Questions - 
Would you make any modifications to this goal?
If you were me, how would you go about achieving this goal?

Thanks in advance, 


Tom


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi Tom. If financial independence is your goal, it's time to head back to work on a full time basis. "Passive" income of $25k at a rate of 5% requires principal of $500,000; at a rate of 2% you'll need a principal balance of $1.25 mil. With zero in assets you have a long ways to go. Goodluck getting that together in 2 years time. I would recommend you read the "Eight with Weight" suggested reading list. This will get you started in the right direction.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

First welcome to the forum.



Fable said:


> In concrete terms, my financial goal is to have:
> -$25,000/year in passive income within 2 years or sooner
> -$50,000 - $100,000 in passive income within 5 years or sooner (in preparation for increased spending, e.g. if I start a family, etc).


These are extremely lofty goals, but not impossible and highly dependent upon how you define 'passive' For example, most do not consider investing in real estate as a passive venture. If you become a landlord, this is active work, and sometimes a lot of it. If you start a business, it takes work.

As to the scope of the goals, take owning rental properties (as this is the only thing I can relate to, never started a business). You would need to earn $4000 a month in rent to achieve you goal. A current prices, that probably amounts to $700,000-$1,000,000 of _PAID OFF_ property in Calgary. Unless you can get that within 5 years, this will be next to impossible.

Another option is returns from investing. But using the 'sustainable' withdrawl rate of 4% often touted, you would need capital of $1,250,000 invested. Probably not possible in 5 years.

Last option - business. As a pharmacist, why not strive to open/own your own business. If the size is large enough and you can hire a fresh grad, this is as passive as it gets. and if you dedicate yourself to the employment, you can earn $95,000 per year, nothing to sneeze at, while you save money to start your business.

Stick with things you have experience with and the path will probably be easier.

Good luck.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Hey Fable. Check out the blog and forum at http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ for all the information you could ever want about achieving accelerated financial independence and early retirement.

The two idea that you propose are 1) very risky, since you'll be using insane amounts of debt/leverage for this rental apartment, or 2) very hard work, I don't think you could run a website or house "passively" without significant work.

If you are set on financial independence your best bet is to save like mad, and perhaps slowly dip your feet into running a side business as you continue to work full time and save like mad. Depending on your dedication to saving you may be able to get there in as little as 5 years. more realistically though it will be 10-15 years.

I'm 25 like yourself, and intend to save like crazy and hopefully be financially independent by 35, 40 at the latest.


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

Hey guys.

Thanks much for the responses.

With respect to hard work - yea, prepared to go that route. Definitely don't want to spend my 30's working most of my time. That would suck.

Going to work on this further soon. Cheers.


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## MoMoney (Apr 1, 2011)

Virtually impossible at your income level barring some major gamble and payoff. Forget about the passive income, focus on making more "active" income now. 

If you invested so many years and resources into Pharmacy, why would you avoid that industry? Take on a couple SDMs in boomtown Alberta & BC and you'll be set by the time your 35. Sit back and let the money flow.


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## iherald (Apr 18, 2009)

I don't see your goals as possible, but agree with the suggestion that you should use your skills to try and set up a business (SDM, Rexall) and once its running, you can have other people do the work and you get the profits. But truly 'passive' income such as dividends won't give you enough income unless you've got a huge amount saved.

As for it 'sucking' having to work throughout your thirties...welcome to the real world. I wish you all the luck in the world on not having too, but you will likely be working throughout your thirties, and forties.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Fable said:


> 1. I'm 26, university grad as a pharmacist....*my dream in life is* to have the financial independence *to work minimally or not at all*.....
> 2. I have no financial background, but I do learn pretty quickly.....


1. You're only 26, a new graduate and your goal already is preferably 'not to work at all', and you say you're motivated? 
2. You have NO financial background/NO assets/work just p-time in order to enjoy your travels, BUT you would like '$25,000/year in passive income *within 2 years or sooner*....$50,000 - $100,000 in passive income within 5 years or sooner.' :biggrin:

You're a lazy dreamer, and that's perfectly okay, but you need to wake up to reality.

Good luck with freedom 28.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Flush that dream down the toilet and make a real one.

Except for the very low probability that you hit it rich with your internet company, you don't have a snowballs chance in reaching that goal.

As for the internet company. I use to tell people that if I ever made $1,000,000 per year in income, I would only work 1 year, since that is all the money I would need. I would then add that because I would only work one year, it is precisely why I will never make $1,000,000 per year. I have a bad attitude ... or better put the wrong attitude, and our society rarely endows great wealth upon lazy people. 

Your attitude is not that much different and therefore I doubt you will succeed in business either. You say you are motivated to succeed but it sounds to me that all you are motivated in is "not working". Again, it is a very rare occurence that capitism endows great wealth upon those that are lazy.

What I would do is see how great of life you can have by working part time, for most of your adult lfe. You have an advantage that most people do not. For most people that want to work part-time, it is an impossible goal. Not only are there very few part time jobs out there, but when you find one, it probably pays about 1/2 the hourly wage as any full time job you could get. Since most people cannot live on 25% of there obtainable wage (1/2 the time at 1/2 the hourly wage), they are forced to work full-time, for many, many years. In your case, your pharmacy degree will almost certainly ensure that your hourly wage is above average and since most pharmacies will always need part-time help, your available jobs should be abundant. 

Now working 3 days a week is not quite the same as retiring at age 28, but lets face it, you have a better chance of winning the lottomax, then you do of reaching that goal. That is what I would do if I were you. Work part-time, for 25 to 30 years and grow your wealth like most people do, slowly, but enjoy your free time as you do it.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Open a meth lab on the side. You have access to all the chemicals you'll need and you can watch Breaking Bad for a primer on how to actually make meth and distribute it. From what I've seen of the show, looks pretty profitable to me.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> From what I've seen of the show, looks pretty profitable to me.


And lower risk than the present plans.


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## cjk2 (Sep 19, 2012)

As a recent grad--and pharmacist as well--I understand where you're coming from. I used to have the same goals/thoughts--retire as early as possible and save up enough money so I could do absolutely nothing but still have a steady income stream. This was mostly when I felt completely burnt out and stressed out from school, so all I wanted to do was run off and chill out on a beach without any pressures of "real life". After working for a year that mindset has changed a bit. I still want to retire much earlier than the "standard 65", but I don't mind working full-time till maybe 35-40, then part-time for another decade or two.

Think about it--how much satisfaction and sense of achievement are you going to get out of life by "floating by" without ever really working full-time at a job? Sure it may be great at the beginning but you still have 60 years ahead of you! (Based on average life expectancy and all that.) I don't know about you, but after a year of that I'd just feel like my life is empty without any real direction. Work is stressful but also has many rewarding moments--you just need to focus on the good instead of the bad. If you ever have kids, don't you want to set a good example for them by working hard instead of giving them the idea that they can just float by in life without a day of honest work?

Forget about your internet business or condo idea--if you want to retire early, work hard for a few years first to earn that privilege instead of trying to go for some "get-rich-quick" ideas. I know a few pharmacist grads like you (still in the minority of course). Except in their case, they currently work like crazy (aka 80-100 hours a week or more) with the goal of retiring at age 35. Their goal is much more realistic than yours, but still not the lifestyle I'd go for. I'd rather put in 35-40 hours a week so I still have lots of free time to do things I enjoy, retire a bit later but still at a decent age, and feel like I actually accomplished something/made a bit of a difference in my life. (Also, I can't imagine how much of their extra income from that additional 40+ hours/week is going to go towards taxes...Not worth it, IMO.)

By the way, you're lucky you have no debt after all those years in school! You're already ahead of lots of recent grads in that respect.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

MoneyGal said:


> Open a meth lab on the side. You have access to all the chemicals you'll need and you can watch Breaking Bad for a primer on how to actually make meth and distribute it. From what I've seen of the show, looks pretty profitable to me.



lol about 8 years ago i was considering a local pharmaceutical, it had a dazzling market profile, lots institutional interest & a principal shareholder with a big name.

there was something about the story unnerved me. Just one or 2 little things. Like one of their financial connections, if one followed it far enough, was to a caribbean tax haven although the pharma was nowhere near being a multinational. A small red flag.

allegedly they had 2 factories in montreal north so drove up there to see how the place looked. Would not have been surprised to find bare land at one of the "factory" addresses.

everything looked OK. The older factory of the 2 was a sprawling 4-block affair with a modernish building, obviously the administration, tacked onto the front. So far so good.

still, i didn't buy the shares. A couple weeks later the mounties & the surété du quebec swooped in & closed the joint. They were making chemical precursors of meth & shipping em to new jersey. Shares never traded again.

(sigh) always so difficult to find a good microcap.


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. ~john lennon*


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

I like photography and poetry as well. 

- If you don't want to work, you have to work to earn enough money so that you won't have to work -Ogden Nash 
- Laziness may appear attractive, but work gives satisfaction -Anne Frank 
- It is your work in life that is the ultimate seduction - Pablo Picasso


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> Open a meth lab on the side. You have access to all the chemicals you'll need and you can watch Breaking Bad for a primer on how to actually make meth and distribute it. From what I've seen of the show, looks pretty profitable to me.


 ... LOL! ... or maybe the Banks of Dad and Mom can get the OP to his dreams sooner than later.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Speaking of banks, how about this:










Just kidding. :biggrin:


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

^ isn't that Ryan Gosling's dream?
I thought you'd know that, T.Gal ;o)


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## Guigz (Oct 28, 2010)

For some people, work is the place to go to socialize, feel good about their accomplishment and be the social butterfly that they are. For others, work is the place dreams go to die.

I understand where the OP is coming from but I agree that a little bit of realism needs to be injected in the plan. Extraordinary sacrifices will be needed to reach extraordinary objectives. 

With some (rather large) modifications, I believe your plan to retire by your early thirties could be possible.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

HaroldCrump said:


> ^ isn't that Ryan Gosling's dream?
> I thought you'd know that, T.Gal ;o)


Not quite a dream, but a fantasy of his, because in real life, he's afraid of jail. :biggrin:

Dreams often translate into reality, but not without some luck, true motivation, hard work, etc.
Fantasy = being out of touch [as in the case of this thread].


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## zylon (Oct 27, 2010)

*robert allan banks*

LOL T-Gal :rolleyes2:

At least this guy has the profession to suit his name.
http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Kansas/Saline-County-KS/Robert-Allan-Banks.20816454.html

_____________
apologies to o/p ... I'll stop now :smilet-digitalpoint


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

cjk2 said:


> Except in their case, they currently work like crazy (aka 80-100 hours a week or more) with the goal of retiring at age 35


This is true of many who go to Fort Mac, and they could do it, except they end up being the users of all the meth.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

zylon said:


> _____________
> apologies to o/p ... I'll stop now :smilet-digitalpoint


Yes, please stop using that smilie. :hopelessness:

Speaking of names, OP did a good job picking his username.


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

haha fair enough guys. 

You're probably right. But with the alternative being the rat race.. I see my parents in that everyday and I refuse to surrender myself to that.

"For some people, work is the place to go to socialize, feel good about their accomplishment and be the social butterfly that they are. For others, work is the place dreams go to die."

That says it for me. Life outside of work is a lot of fun, and I can't find enough time in a week to see the people and do the things I want to do.

I'm being lazy. Thanks for the wake-up call.

But say I'm willing to put a lot of hours and effort into it and step up to the task, then besides work to earn capital, what else would you suggest? I've had experience doing things that are "impossible" and succeeding in a big way with it through a lot of effort.

Has anyone had the same dreams, and had success or is on the way to success with them? What did you do? I would love to hear your story (or take you out for coffee). 

Cheers!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

The way I see your situation is that you have _already_ invested substantial time and money into your university degree and pharmacist training.
It would be a _huge _waste to not leverage that education/training.
At this time, you are making less than 50% of your income potential.

It is too bad that you ended up hating salaried employment so much.
If you knew that 4 years ago, you should not have invested so much time and money into education and training.

It is entirely possible to work part time and enjoy travel, R&R, and other hobby activities in the surplus time.
But then you have to accept the fact that it will come at the cost of other things, such as perhaps owning a home, building net worth, enjoying some of the other hobbies and interests you may have.

Also, if you plan to invest your way to financial freedom, where do you plan to get the capital for that?
There is not enough income to support your travel, hobbies, _and_ investment capital.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Toronto.gal said:


> ... OP did a good job picking his username.


he sure did. Are we being had ?


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

HaroldCrump said:


> The way I see your situation is that you have _already_ invested substantial time and money into your university degree and pharmacist training.
> It would be a _huge _waste to not leverage that education/training.
> At this time, you are making less than 50% of your income potential.
> 
> ...


Makes sense. I did it back then because I didn't know better. So I'm to blame for my situation now, but I'm trying to make it better. I didn't think about my finances at all while I was in school and for the first 1.5 years after - I just thought about paying off loans. I wasn't aware of how difficult financial freedom is, and coming to this website was a first step.

Actually way I see it I'm in a good spot; I've invested into a career that I can fall back on and has plentiful employment, so I can afford to take risks and should I fail, I can at least provide for myself.

I'm not adverse at all to working full time in order to earn the capital to invest, because if I had a very clear idea what I'm going to do with the money I earn, I'd work with that in mind.

Regardless, thanks much for the responses. I've been reading the money mustache website.

I'm also a big fan of (don't laugh) Tim Ferris, who provided me the original inspiration for passive income. Plus reading the autobiographies of Kevin O'Leary, and so on. They took some pretty big risks and put in a lot of work that paid off. I want to do that as well.


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

humble_pie said:


> he sure did. Are we being had ?


buddy.. no need to be sarcastic. I'm just trying to learn.

And I repeat, if there's someone who's gone through this before and actually come out successful, then I would love to listen to your story and see what you did.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

no one is being sarcastic. You're wasting your time with this nonsense.

U want sarcasm ? it's spelled s.t.r.e.e.t.d.r.u.g.s.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

do you think your parents want that rat race? they're in it because that's how it is for 99% of population.. your goal is not realistic at all, even if you earn 90k, after taxes it'll be close to 60-70k.. that's 5400$ a month, after your 1500 expenses it's $3900/m saving, $46k/year... you need to work 30 years straight to have 1.4mill which can make you 75k/year income doing nothing... and i'm sure in that time you will not want to live in a shitty condo, drive shitbox, etc, etc... also probably will meet a girl start a family... hate to break it to you, you'll be working for a long time



Fable said:


> haha fair enough guys.
> 
> You're probably right. But with the alternative being the rat race.. I see my parents in that everyday and I refuse to surrender myself to that.
> 
> ...


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Fable said:


> buddy.. no need to be sarcastic. I'm just trying to learn.
> 
> And I repeat, if there's someone who's *gone through this before *and actually come out successful, then I would love to listen to your story and see what you did.


Gone through what before? There are a high proportion of HNW people on this site; in fact, they are among the ones posting on this thread.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Fable said:


> I'm also a big fan of (don't laugh) Tim Ferris, who provided me the original inspiration for passive income. Plus reading the autobiographies of Kevin O'Leary, and so on. They took some pretty big risks and put in a lot of work that paid off. I want to do that as well.


That doesn't add up.
I have never heard of Tim Ferris, but Kevin O'Leary did not make his wealth by sitting on his couch all day.
If you have read his book as you said, surely you know how hard he worked starting, growing, and selling all his various businesses.
He started in his early 20s, and is nearly 60 yrs. old right now.
Along the way, he has made multiple personal sacrifices.
In his book, he tells how he was not able to spend much time with his family while his kids were growing up.

It is a long, hard road and you have already given up.


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

How'd you do it?  (@ moneygal)


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

I made a lot of money in my 20's and kept most of it, and I've had very good investing success (I'm in my mid-40's now). And that is THE MOST I have ever said about "how I got here," and the most I will ever say. p.s. It's also possible that my definition of "financial freedom" is different from yours. I work full-time but I'm not "in the rat race."


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

MoneyGal said:


> I made a lot of money in my 20's and kept most of it, and I've had very good investing success (I'm in my mid-40's now). And that is THE MOST I have ever said about "how I got here," and the most I will ever say. p.s. It's also possible that my definition of "financial freedom" is different from yours. I work full-time but I'm not "in the rat race."


Thanks for sharing that. It sounds like a good spot to be in.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

Focus on finding 'work' that gives you pleasure.

My wife and I will probably reach a point of full financial freedom by our early 40's, and we really aren't sacrificing anything in the meantime, have 2 kids, 2 vacations per year, decent house, car and everything else.

However, I probably won't retire when I can afford to. That's because I'm in a profession and employment I enjoy. Look for that, and don't focus on 'making it'. Fill your life with meaningful, fulfilling things and you won't have to worry. If you start focusing on leaving the rat race while you are 26, you are going to live a long miserable life.


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

If I may ask Sampson, what route(s) did you take the supplement your income besides work?

And congrats on the wife and kids. That's something I'd like to do well for in the future, otherwise I might be content with less in terms of finances.


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## blin10 (Jun 27, 2011)

you need to stop worrying what others did, nobody will tell you exactly what they did to make it and their hints are useless...



Fable said:


> If I may ask Sampson, what route(s) did you take the supplement your income besides work?
> 
> And congrats on the wife and kids. That's something I'd like to do well for in the future, otherwise I might be content with less in terms of finances.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm a bit concerned with the underlying message of the OP. You're basically asking us to fabricate a get rich quick scheme so you don't have to go to work? I'm sure I've misunderstood you though. This just doesn't seem probable for a newly-educated 26 year old. Do you really think it's that easy to make a living income by sitting on the couch and having the system work for you? If it was that easy don't you think everyone would be doing it? We all have to get up and go to work so we can eat, pay our bills and have a few pennies leftover to enjoy a beer on Saturday with our pals.


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## Sampson (Apr 3, 2009)

When I think about it, nothing special. We were fortunately to get into the housing market before it spiked up 30-50%, but even then, we bought a house after the boom, so that is sort of offset. We now rent that condo out. We have always saved a lot. Even when I was in graduate school earning a whopping $1600 per month (back then we had to pay taxes on that too), I still managed to save $200/month. We kept investing through the great recession.

No secrets really.

I think the biggest factor for me is that I do love my work, my wife not so much, but she doesn't view herself as being in the rat race either. The thing you have to consider is all the things you think you want to do while out of the rat race will change and evolve as you grow. So all the socializing, travelling, or whatever, your perception of the value these things add to your life will constantly change. Because of this, we don't sweat it. We make sure the day to day is reasonably enjoyable, we set goals financially and personally, and we move along life enjoying the good moments when they arise. Too much fretting about money is not healthy.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Fable said:


> 1. For others, *work is the place dreams go to die."* That says it for me.
> 2. Life *outside of work is a lot of fun*...
> 3. What did you do? *I would love to hear your story* (or take you out for coffee).


1. And many also feel pride in being self-sufficient & contributing to society. What % of the population do you think go to work just to 'socialize/feel good and to be social butterflies'? What are your dreams? 

2. Here is the answer to the dream question above, you just want to have fun, like Cindy Lauper says in her song, LOL.

3. Sounds like you want to copy others rather than make it on your own. You want to take short-cuts, but there aren't any. 

Since you like to travel so much, maybe some volunteer work abroad [in Africa maybe] might get you inspired rather than focused on the easy life.

As I suggested before, you can always R.A.B. and voilà, you'll instantly have Freedom26 [because you'll surely won't have to work for many years after that]. :biggrin:


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

the-royal-mail said:


> I'm a bit concerned with the underlying message of the OP. You're basically asking us to fabricate a get rich quick scheme so you don't have to go to work? I'm sure I've misunderstood you though. This just doesn't seem probable for a newly-educated 26 year old. Do you really think it's that easy to make a living income by sitting on the couch and having the system work for you? If it was that easy don't you think everyone would be doing it? We all have to get up and go to work so we can eat, pay our bills and have a few pennies leftover to enjoy a beer on Saturday with our pals.


I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to live the good life. And yes, living the good life is my wish (isn't it everyone's?). I didn't expect it to be easy, but I wanted to put it out there. Judging from the replies the consensus is that it's difficult. So the next step for me is to figure out how to do it, or the best route to take to get closest to what I want. Which is what I'm after now. 

If there's a get rich quick scheme that works, sure why not. But I didn't really expect that, so I was ready to put in a lot of effort.

I'm sorry if anyone feels offended.. it's not my intention to offend anyone. Or if you think I'm self-entitled. I'm not.

2 years ago, I wanted to do something that nobody thought was possible. I stuck to it though and found a group of people who believed in the same thing; I found mentors and partners in crime to do it with, and now I do it regularly and I love my life. So forgive me if I don't believe in impossibilities. I came here to look for the same thing - mentors and people who want the same things I do and want to conspire together to get it.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

I'm going to start sounding like a MMM shill here :tongue-new: but Fable, you should really check out and participate in the forum over at Mr. Money Mustache. In CMF you seem to be asking for people to provide you a complex answer or shortcut to financial independence in a few sentences. It's not possible (to get a short answer).
If you pose your questions over in MMM with an open-for-discussion attitude and not a give-me-answers one that people here are picking up on, you will get all the answers you seek.
CMF is primarily for mainstream investing/finance/retirement discussions, if you want to discuss extreme saving/alternative lifestyle/Financial Independence topics, MMM will be a far more on-topic forum for you to participate in and learn from.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

marry a criminal

either sex is fine


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

Paris Hilton I think. Fits in with my golddigging ways.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

peterk said:


> I'm going to start sounding like a MMM shill here :tongue-new: but Fable, you should really check out and participate in the forum over at Mr. Money Mustache. In CMF you seem to be asking for people to provide you a complex answer or shortcut to financial independence in a few sentences. It's not possible (to get a short answer).
> If you pose your questions over in MMM with an open-for-discussion attitude and not a give-me-answers one that people here are picking up on, you will get all the answers you seek.
> CMF is primarily for mainstream investing/finance/retirement discussions, if you want to discuss extreme saving/alternative lifestyle/Financial Independence topics, MMM will be a far more on-topic forum for you to participate in and learn from.


MMM is the bees knees. HOWEVER! The version of financial freedom that he espouses would not, I wager, be consistent with the view of someone who wants to live "the good life." Mr. Money Mustache is going to have you sell your car, and go everywhere by bike. There's not much glitzing it up over there!


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

hmm I loove bikes. haha.

Okay I'm going to check those places out tonight. Thanks for the input so far. Wish there was something I could give back, but probably nothing to offer at this point.  Cheers.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

Fable said:


> ... my golddigging ways.


now you're catching on


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Money is a side effect of hard work. What is not seen by people who worship money and the riches as the be all and end all to the question of life is the power and social network that brought the money. 

By hard work, I mean treating every single moment as work. Every time I do something, I am not thinking about scoring, sleeping or getting anymoney out of an exchange, but about how I can benefit the current parties around me and myself in their well being or improve their social standing.

This state of constancy of work might sound tiring, but compared to the alternative, which is to lay down at a beach somewhere and watch a number go up, it is a much more interesting life. What good is money and the beach if it's the same every day? 

By the way, if laying down on a beach and traveling is the goal, you can do it now. I've met some permanent travelers in my own travels. Seek them out and they will teach you how.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

You should look up the word-impact bais.(I'm not a millionaire)but i know enought to know lol.Being a ''multi-millionaire" does'nt give you some special power over yourself--It does'nt automatically make you immune to problems,challenges,trials ect ect.(eternal bliss and the ''good" life)

I think your "age" is showing in your post to honest and your looking @ things from a naive mindset.Anyways i read somewhere ''wealth" is being richer than your(future) sister in laws husband lol......shoot for that for starters lol.


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## Maybe Later (Feb 19, 2011)

Sampson said:


> Focus on finding 'work' that gives you pleasure.


+1

Believe it or not, but where I work individuals will retire and then voluntarily come back and work ... for free! One of the reasons I don't fret about early retirement is I have any number of options for my working years based on my changing interests.


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## cjk2 (Sep 19, 2012)

Maybe Later said:


> Believe it or not, but where I work individuals will retire and then voluntarily come back and work ... for free!


Wow. I wish I could find a job like that! To be honest I don't really know if I could ever find a job I absolutely _loved_, though (and that also pays decently). Instead of the usual "love your job and you will never have to work a day in your life" type stuff, my dad basically told me, "a job is a JOB, you're not supposed to like it, choose something that pays well that you don't hate, then do the stuff you want in your spare time". Bit pessimistic perhaps, but at least I didn't have overly-optimistic expectations for my job...



Toronto.gal said:


> 1. And many also feel pride in being self-sufficient & contributing to society. What % of the population do you think go to work just to 'socialize/feel good and to be social butterflies'? What are your dreams?


Yes, this is _exactly_ how I feel--I definitely don't go to work "for fun". In fact, a lot of days it can be extremely stressful and I'll complain/rant on about it. But on the other hand, just like you put it, it also gives me a sense of pride and achievement. I put lots of hard work into my degree, so I want to put it to good use and "contribute to society" as best I can. At the end of the day, I still think I'd be happier working when I'm young than to just "have fun" all the time...as long as work doesn't take over the majority of my life. (And I've always felt I'm a pretty lazy person.)


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## spirit (May 9, 2009)

Hi Fable. You remind me of my younger son. He worked all through high school and university. When he graduated he worked just until he had enough money to travel, come home, work and travel. Basically, he spent his first 26 years doing what he should have done decided by others. Get an education. Then he was sort of feeling life out, trying to sort out what he should do. After 3 or so years of coasting ( I approved the first year but not the other two) he met a wonderful girl on holidays who was studying to be a doctor. He basically had no worthwhile job and no prospects to offer her. That was a wakeup call. He came home, worked very hard to land a good job, outside of his field since hiring in heath care in Alberta was not an option. He realized that years of couch surfing is great but when your good looks and charm are getting old you have nothing built for stability. Keep on asking because you are searching for a new direction. This is part of life. But you have some financial obligations to pay off and you must do that. I think that once you settle into your profession you will find life unfolding as it should. Be careful of judging life by other's standards. What you see on the outside does not show you the sacrifices that were made getting there. Life will be your journey, not the destination. Make sure the journey is filled with values that you hold important and the other things will fall into place. Ok. Lecture over


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## Fable (Aug 3, 2012)

spirit said:


> Hi Fable. You remind me of my younger son. He worked all through high school and university. When he graduated he worked just until he had enough money to travel, come home, work and travel. Basically, he spent his first 26 years doing what he should have done decided by others. Get an education. Then he was sort of feeling life out, trying to sort out what he should do. After 3 or so years of coasting ( I approved the first year but not the other two) he met a wonderful girl on holidays who was studying to be a doctor. He basically had no worthwhile job and no prospects to offer her. That was a wakeup call. He came home, worked very hard to land a good job, outside of his field since hiring in heath care in Alberta was not an option. He realized that years of couch surfing is great but when your good looks and charm are getting old you have nothing built for stability. Keep on asking because you are searching for a new direction. This is part of life. But you have some financial obligations to pay off and you must do that. I think that once you settle into your profession you will find life unfolding as it should. Be careful of judging life by other's standards. What you see on the outside does not show you the sacrifices that were made getting there. Life will be your journey, not the destination. Make sure the journey is filled with values that you hold important and the other things will fall into place. Ok. Lecture over


Yea that's so true. Stability is an important part of life and family. If I had only myself to worry about I'd already be halfway where I want to be.


Anyway as it is thanks for all the responses. I respect the general consensus and appreciate the well-intentions and warnings in this thread. I redid my work schedule to take on more shifts and get more savings. I'm not giving up on the idea on having enough passive income to retire early though. There is a huge difference between doing something because you have to, and doing something because you want to. Maybe I am lazy and enjoy sitting on my *** watching the sunset with a beer and a book all day. But that's my choice so I'll do what it takes for me to get there. Besides, if I'm there I can always choose to work if I'm bored. If I'm not there, I have no such choice. 

Going to check out some other avenues that were suggested and take it from there. I'll do an update in a few months. If I'm broke by then, feel free to say I told you so.


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## Mattamatics (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Fable,

I just wanted to second the comment to check out MMM & the related Forums. Of the blogs/forums I’m familiar with it’s likely most in line with your goals. (He lives a great lifestyle off of under24K a year) – Though it took him more than 2 years to accomplish this… http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011...e-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/ 

Also you may be interested in http://lackingambition.com/ which is the blog of a 28 year old who has reached FI. He lays out exactly how he accomplished it. Note you’ll likely find that it’s not easily reproducible, and his life style likely varies greatly from your idealized retirement/FI dreams. 

There is also ERE http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ , likely less compatible with you as it stresses expense minimization over income. (Which is logical assuming efficiency & FI are your primary goals). Jacob lives off of under12K a year.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/ Sam at FS retired at 35 with greater than 80K in passive income. He worked in a very rewarding career field and at a great time, but still worked crazy hours to reach that (and it took him 10 years, and if I remember correctly I believe the majority of his working years he earned a salary > 100K).

These are probably the most extreme retirement blogs I’m familiar with but it still took them more than 2 years to accomplish their goals...

Good luck though (I’m 27 and aiming for FI/FIRE by 35)


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Your 5th post has been the most helpful, LOL. 

Good luck with Freedom 35.


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## kork (Jun 9, 2012)

Fable said:


> haha fair enough guys.
> 
> But say I'm willing to put a lot of hours and effort into it and step up to the task, then besides work to earn capital, what else would you suggest? I've had experience doing things that are "impossible" and succeeding in a big way with it through a lot of effort.
> 
> ...


I've got a simple answer. I started a web business when I was 20, failed. Started another one when 25, failed, then another partnered with someone, failed. Started another 3 years ago (Those keeping count, that's 4), developed touch based software in a unique industry and have actually developed a yearly licensing cycle of $60k/year with only a handful of clients. It's pretty much passive income. Push a monthly invoice, collect the payments. 3 years into it, software is 100% stable, servers are humming along and it's all pretty good. Time invested? Thousand hours or so?

All the while, I've been earning an income working full-time and doing freelance and contract work on the side.

So $60k a year passive is nice, but it took 10 years of failure while learning how to do it right working in the industry... I'd say that I've lost around $75-$100k of "time" plus the time in my current venture which I'm beginning to recoup now.

"I'll build a website and make money..." Um, no. Having been in this industry for a long time, it takes money, hard work, time and incredible knowledge and luck to do it all right. I'm also involved in Venture Capitalists, Angel Investors and other funding operations... My own business is 100% funded by myself. 100% mine.

Even this forum isn't passive. There's moderation, hosting fees, the PITA factor of getting sponsors for real revenue generation. It all takes time, commitment and money.

Oh yeah, and my salaried position is managing the development and creative of websites. I get billed out at $250/hour by my full-time employer. The point I'm making is that "Building" a website isn't that easy.

There are always exceptions though. A very good friend of mine is pulling in $3-4k a month of "real" passive income with YouTube videos. 20+ million page views and growing with nearly 2000 videos online. Yeah, he's making money now, but HE GOT LUCKY! His success is echoed by 10,000 other failures.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

moneygal said:


> open a meth lab on the side. You have access to all the chemicals you'll need and you can watch breaking bad for a primer on how to actually make meth and distribute it. From what i've seen of the show, looks pretty profitable to me.


lol.


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## busient60 (Sep 29, 2012)

spirit said:


> Hi Fable. You remind me of my younger son. He worked all through high school and university. When he graduated he worked just until he had enough money to travel, come home, work and travel. Basically, he spent his first 26 years doing what he should have done decided by others. Get an education. Then he was sort of feeling life out, trying to sort out what he should do. After 3 or so years of coasting ( I approved the first year but not the other two) he met a wonderful girl on holidays who was studying to be a doctor. He basically had no worthwhile job and no prospects to offer her. That was a wakeup call. He came home, worked very hard to land a good job, outside of his field since hiring in heath care in Alberta was not an option. He realized that years of couch surfing is great but when your good looks and charm are getting old you have nothing built for stability. Keep on asking because you are searching for a new direction. This is part of life. But you have some financial obligations to pay off and you must do that. I think that once you settle into your profession you will find life unfolding as it should. Be careful of judging life by other's standards. What you see on the outside does not show you the sacrifices that were made getting there. Life will be your journey, not the destination. Make sure the journey is filled with values that you hold important and the other things will fall into place. Ok. Lecture over


This is such a great wake up call! I almost fell in the same line as your son! I am in university and I am working part-time jobs since I was in high school and was planning to go around the world trips after I graduate. Then I realized, because of this, that I should find a goal that is really worth striving for and not to waste my money going around the world with no clear goal in mind.


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