# Dental Insurance?



## Jim9guitars (May 5, 2012)

My 20 something daughter is self employed, does anyone have any info or experiences to share about private dental insurance for someone in her situation? Thanks in advance.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Too expensive. Dental and Health insurance only work well when you have an employer willing to pay 75% or more of the costs (like it is in most group work plans). Self employed people do not have one of those employers, therefore, with personal insurance you will most likely pay more in premiums then what you would pay for dental bills and/or prescriptions. The only exception is the person that had few prescriptions and was basically healthy when they got the insurance (if they were not they would not get it) and then got deafly sick immediately after. Even in those circumstances the insurance company puts maximums on the claims to prevent anyone from benefiting in any big way.

Anyway, a self employed person is on their own. Either by paying their health and dental bills with their own money or spending more to use the insurance companies money...and that is the way it is.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

I agree with the above. I was self employed in a past life and did all the research, websites, phone calls and came to the same conclusion. Above all, ins companies are there to make money and for most people it's basically easiest and cheapest simply to pay cash for the work needed. You can do the research yourself if you don't believe us and I would be interested to know if you come up with a different conclusion.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Individual dental only plans [not including other benefits] can be expensive for what they offer, and typically come with low maximums like $500 to $1,000/yr., [for a basic plan], with coinsurances of 20% or more, so it's cheaper to pay for the dental services yourself and skipping the insurance premiums as already mentioned. 

At 20+, if healthy gums/teeth, should not require more than basic services, so she could self-insure, ie, budget a monthly amount, and not skip the cleaning/preventive care.


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## Jim9guitars (May 5, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I thought it would be as you all describe but had to ask. My first suspicion was when I visited a couple of sites to see what they offered and found no info on that level, instead I was invited to click on a "get a quote" button that brought up a questionnaire type form, which immediately put me off.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Yes. They are sold to people who do not take the time to do simple math. You would be surprised how many Canadians fall into that group.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

I am self insured/pay myself benefits and take 5% of my net income and put it into a separate high interest savings account. All excess is in a GIC ladder. Paying for a private benefits package was too expensive. That and I only spend a couple hundred a year on annual check ups, so my capital has a chance to build up until something substantial comes along.


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## moisimplementmoi (Oct 20, 2014)

i agree with all of the above, but am curious about one thing. One of the reason employer offer the benefits is that they are not taxable in most province. Is there a way for a self employed to buy the insurance for themselves have have it as a benefit they bought for their employee (ie them)?


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## carverman (Nov 8, 2010)

Ag Driver said:


> > I am self insured/pay myself benefits and take 5% of my net income and put it into a separate high interest savings account. All excess is in a GIC ladder. Paying for a private benefits package was too expensive
> 
> 
> .
> ...


It all depends on how much and what kind of dental work is required as most expensive dental work is excluded in these plans, such as root canals, bridges, caps, crowns and other more expensive work. Depending on your age and what kind of tooth issues you may have, the premiums you pay don't even cover the dental work equivalent to the premiums.

One insurer (Flexcare/Cover me) indicates that in year 1, the first $1,150 of ELIGIBLE SERVICES (IE: clean, or minor filling) is covered up to $575. That's it.total benefits in year 1.

Year 2 and beyond; once you start paying in more premiums they cover 80% of the FIRST$400 of Eligible services for $300 and 50% on the next $860 of eligible services to $430...maximum for the year $750... and that's all folks.

I looked into this as well (65+). For their Dentalplus plan..it was going to cost me about $100+ a month..($1200+ per year in premiums for about $750 of coverage... and only on eligible services.

So if you had a expensive root channel which can run $1000+ these days on a molar in year 2...you still have to pay out the difference.

I opened up a " dental savings account" and put away a minimum of $50 per month. Self insured..this way I keep the money
if it there is no dental work in a given year.


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## MoreMiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Many plans don't cover the expensive works like dental crown... so they are useless.
Many plans cost close to $1000 per year and limit coverage to $1000 per year, you are guaranteed to lose money unless you go to a dentist and use up every single service, even that you would just break even.

Sometimes don't you wish you are in this type of business... it's like a casino, the house always wins.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

For anything expensive, just get a flight to one of the many medical tourism countries.


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## Guban (Jul 5, 2011)

Has anyone personally done medical tourism, or know anyone who did? How did it go? I can understand going to the US to save time, but Cuba or Vietnam? How trustworthy would they be?


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## Ostracized (Feb 7, 2014)

m3s said:


> For anything expensive, just get a flight to one of the many medical tourism countries.


I'm a dentist. Here's my opinion about dental tourism. I promise you that I'll match any dental tourism price if you agree that you're going to fly 10,000 km away immediately afterwards and never return.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

^ What a perfect reply - love it ! :biggrin:


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Medical tourism is booming none the less. Many people like to travel anyways. Just do your research and due diligence like anything.

A Canadian dentist once tried to fill my mouth with fillings because I had insurance. Skeptical so I got a 2nd opinion. Still no fillings in my mouth.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

Dental costs in this country are getting ridiculous. Paid over $4000 for a small bridge!!!! I don't have my insurance anymore, even when I did it was limited to about $1000 anyway and then it didn't cover "cosmetic" Even when wife and I went in for routine cleaning it was over $700 for both. If I ended up needing a substantial amount of work I would consider medical tourism and if there were issues I would fly back and get it dealt with too and still save. I would do some research first before deciding on the dentist.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Dental insurance only works as a group policy where the average person pays as much (actually more) into the plan than the benefits that come out. By design, the plan has to make money for the insurer, e.g. cover administrative delivery costs plus a profit. IOW, the collective insured have to pay more into the plan than the total benefits that are paid out.

As mentioned already, employer plans tend to work to some degree because the employer pays some of the premium costs as a payroll benefit. All these plans make an effort to cover regular dental exams and preventative work because it is that work that mitigates expensive work further down the road. It may also work if you and your family have worse than average dental needs (relative to others) due to genes, DNA, or poor dental hygiene habits. Only the individual can make that judgement.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

It has always seemed rather dumb to me that government health care plans don't cover dental work, until it reaches a state that it is a medical emergency situation.

Save a penny...........spend a dollar mentality.

We kick too many problems down the road to avoid paying the true cost today.

We just pretend the problems don't exist............(healthcare, infrastructure, retirement income, education).


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## houska (Feb 6, 2010)

moisimplementmoi said:


> i agree with all of the above, but am curious about one thing. One of the reason employer offer the benefits is that they are not taxable in most province. Is there a way for a self employed to buy the insurance for themselves have have it as a benefit they bought for their employee (ie them)?


Have not looked into it myself (while I am now self-employed, my wife has a good health plan through work), but I've made note of the following link about HSAs -- it seems to be a way how a small business/entrepreneur by jumping through some hoops can pay health expenses out of pre-tax business income as an employee benefit (with a "processing fee" for the HSA administrator), as opposed to with after-tax personal money, where there is no "processing fee" but the expenses are tax deductible only as far as they exceed 3% of personal taxable income, etc.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/hsas-the-best-health-plans-you-ve-never-heard-of-1.990547

In terms of more conventional dental plans for the OP's daughter, it's tough for coverage like this which is optional, i.e. not regulatory mandated (like car insurance) or not protection against something catastrophic (like home insurance). Since people who want this insurance turn out to be the poorer risks on it, it's difficult for it to be cost effective unless you are part of a large group who will sign up as part of a package and include both good and bad risks for each benefit.


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