# Mom and Pop Screwed the Younger Generation While Living the Good Life



## Belguy (May 24, 2010)

Interesting reading as recommended by the G&M's Rob Carrick:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/07/15/are-millennials-the-screwed-generation.html

Also, America--once the greatest country on earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4r7hIWln7Q&feature=related

Drought conditions now declared in 29 states covering three fifths of the U.S.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

There's a big club and we aren't in it. A gang of big shots with loaded pockets sent the jobs overseas for their own profit and have been syphoning money out of the system for years. They have already taken the wealth out of the stock market through a series of crashes and scams, out of the bond and fixed income by low interest rates, out of real estate by the housing crash, now they are coming for your pension and retirement, what's left of it after filleting the stock and bond markets.

Granny and grandpa worked and paid into the pension plans at work, and into Social Security for 40 years. The pension plan already evaporated, now all they have left is Social Security.

Time to throw Granny and Grandpa under the bus. The tricky part is getting you to cheer while they do it.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

By the way, if they get away with this what do you suppose they have in store for you? Once they get you to stab your parents and grandparents in the back for their profit, is there any limit to what they can get away with?


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

I remember watching, on Vancouver TV about a decade and a half ago, protesters attempting to impede the removal of manufacturing equipment from a local plant.........seems the union refused to compromise on their demands so the owners closed the plant and sold the machinery to a US company.

Ergo, the Vancouver employees, (or, I guess, ex-employees), had put themselves out of work, and when the inevitable happened they were at the gates chanting "You're taking our jobs"........I disagreed with the expressed sentiment at that time and I disagree with it now........the only job that is _your_ job is the job that _you've_ created and that _you_ maintain control over.......there is no 'right' to occupy a position that someone else has engendered.

It's always been a tough world......it's just that some areas of it, due to happenstance or perhaps the aftermath of WWII when the victors held the industrial upper hand, lost sight of that and came to regard their, (temporary), good fortune as an enduring inevitability. 

T'ain't so.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

It takes teamwork to destroy a successful economy. Unions, workers, government and the public all working together, socking business over the head every chance they get.

At a certain point some cynics decided it was time to stop fighting it and write the whole economy off, sending the jobs overseas where the workers and governments were cheaper to hire and less picky. That made it possible to liquidate the North American economy and pocket the proceeds. The cream is almost gone, the only big pool of money left is seniors' retirement savings. After that, you get a third world economy.


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

Yeah. I second Rusty's comment. 
I saved up a lot of cash in preparation to hire someone. Then the tax bill came. Result = no underlings.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Nemo2 said:


> I remember watching, on Vancouver TV about a decade and a half ago, protesters attempting to impede the removal of manufacturing equipment from a local plant.........seems the union refused to compromise on their demands so the owners closed the plant and sold the machinery to a US company.
> 
> Ergo, the Vancouver employees, (or, I guess, ex-employees), had put themselves out of work, and when the inevitable happened they were at the gates chanting "You're taking our jobs"........I disagreed with the expressed sentiment at that time and I disagree with it now........the only job that is _your_ job is the job that _you've_ created and that _you_ maintain control over.......there is no 'right' to occupy a position that someone else has engendered.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.........

Companies also don't have any imperical right to sell their products or services in North America either.

They have no God given right to use the resources provided by the country so they can sell their wares.

Shut the door.......manufacture in China and sell to the Chinese........see how that works out for them.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

China is first on the list of countries by population with 1,347,350,000. All eager to buy buy buy and enjoy the good life. All they need is the money. Well once they get ours, what do they need us for? Our natural resources which the government is eager to sell them cheap. Given the resources, China is big enough to have a self sustaining economy. After that what do they care what happens to us?

Meanwhile Canada is 35 on the list with 34,000,000. In China that's a rounding error. If Quebec ever separates, on the international stage Canada will be nothing and Quebec will be less than nothing.


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## Daniel A. (Mar 20, 2011)

When I started work unemployment was around 12 % and it's been higher since.
Why is it this new generation views every world problem as being about them. I don't recall ever looking for someone to blame when I was working for minimum wage starting out.
The youth today want a perfect world handed to them no surprise that is the idea they were raised with.

Think about the Great Depression we are no where near that, I don't ever remember my grandparents complaining about who's fault that was. 
Back then there was also the first and second world war.
Many monetary policy changes occurred in the fifties & sixties right into the seventies that had a huge impact on all of us.
Most of my generation did not have the right to vote then and if we did most didn't.

I'm grateful to be in the position I am today retired on a great pension but I do watch my own kids struggle to find their place in the world, it will come.


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## Nemo2 (Mar 1, 2012)

sags said:


> Fair enough.........
> 
> Companies also don't have any imperical right to sell their products or services in North America either.
> 
> ...


Not sure I understand what you mean by "imperical", or " the resources provided by the country"......do companies wishing to operate (anywhere) not pay taxes/royalties, etc, for the 'privilege' of doing so......or do you believe that such things are bestowed upon them as gratuities?

They can offer their wares for sale, but that doesn't mean that anyone/anywhere is obliged to _buy_ them.......that's a risk of starting up a company and doing business.....you can lose it all if you make the wrong decisions....here, in China, anywhere.

Again...it's a tough world...there is no room for complacency...on the part of the owners or the employees.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> By the way, if they get away with this what do you suppose they have in store for you? Once they get you to stab your parents and grandparents in the back for their profit, is there any limit to what they can get away with?


I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds pretty paranoid to me. Get a grip man.


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## Young&Ambitious (Aug 11, 2010)

Daniel A. said:


> The youth today want a perfect world handed to them no surprise that is the idea they were raised with.


Agreed. If one makes smart choices and works hard, they can make the best of things in whatever economic circumstances they are in. 

As for sending jobs overseas, it's a business decision. Investors, like us CMF'ers here, demand good financial statements and a solid way to deliver this and continued growth and dividends etc is ensuring cost efficiency. If people want to stay in an industry where labour for that industry is cheaper elsewhere, then they should think about changing industries or accept working for less. It's a tough world, adapt.


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## smihaila (Apr 6, 2009)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> There's a big club and we aren't in it. A gang of big shots with loaded pockets sent the jobs overseas for their own profit and have been syphoning money out of the system for years. They have already taken the wealth out of the stock market through a series of crashes and scams, out of the bond and fixed income by low interest rates, out of real estate by the housing crash, now they are coming for your pension and retirement, what's left of it after filleting the stock and bond markets.
> 
> Granny and grandpa worked and paid into the pension plans at work, and into Social Security for 40 years. The pension plan already evaporated, now all they have left is Social Security.
> 
> Time to throw Granny and Grandpa under the bus. The tricky part is getting you to cheer while they do it.


I couldn't agree more with your perspective. Well put, thank you!


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## brocko (Apr 20, 2009)

Mytake on it is that today we have a lot more "formally educated" than ever before who consider themselves "smart" and the job markets are currently extremely competitive. It is going to be really difficult for many to accept that success and reward is only going to go those who are "really smart". We have lost too many jobs to overseas workers in part because it was "not smart" to work in factory jobs unless wages and benefits were comparative to what Mom and Dad made at the very end of their careers. I am all in favor of higher education with all the personal rewards that come from learning and developing as an individual. I am not in favor of people attending post secondary education without a plan and simply an expectation for a future that cannot be provided to everyone.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

My take-You have to forget the ''old" rules.We(under 35)have to accept rapid change(the days of working for 1 company is over)*professional's incl*just like investments you have to diversify.(if you want to succeed i think you have to constantly be looking out 2/3 yrs,revisit your roadmap)anticapte multiple career changes,reliaze you have to work harder with and on yourself now than era's pasts,Networking is way more important,self reliance is more important.

Also believe this era requires more skills in creative thinking,critical thinking,higher problem solving skills,better soft skills(people skills,social skills ect)Most of us here(the under 35 demo) pretty sure view themself's as-john smith inc.You have to see yourself as that.

Imo-most of us were taught the wrong msg from educators-they preached about a world(job security,pensions,tenure ect ect)that does'nt exist in 2012(imagine what 2032 is going to look like?) and beyond-freelancing,side business,social media ect......you have to be more flexiable(more self learning than formal learning).I also think a lot of young people are affriad to fail/change(you almost have to now)-they would rather follow the status quo.If that makes sense.(maybe it's always been like this?)I sounds like a self-help book lol-my 2 cent's(see we don't even have the penny anymore)my 2 dime's.-you got to admit though.....these are exciting times i think...look at how fast everthing is now(esp tech)


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Square Root said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds pretty paranoid to me. Get a grip man.


Did you even read the original question? It was promoting the idea of robbing the old because they don't deserve a decent retirement. I have seen this meme pop up all over the net. Obviously, it is not the old who are in favor of this. Somebody is trying to pull a fast one.

If they can get away with stealing granny's old age security while her children and grandchildren applaud, what is the limit? If you do not protest when your own parents and grandparents golden years are pushed into poverty what will you protest at? If somebody is capable of cooking up this scheme what else are they capable of? Do you think the scams and ripoffs will just stop by themselves or do you think they might try something else, something that will affect you?


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

It is only fair to point out that everything was fine while the boomers were running things. As soon as they started to retire everything went to ****.

Well Gen X here is your opportunity. 20 years ago you were whining that all the good jobs were taken and you had to wait for the boomers to retire. Now your wish is coming true. Time to get off your ***, leave your mom's basement and show us what a great success you can make of things.


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

There's a big club and we aren't in it? Still sounds paranoid to me? What club is it exactly? What makes you think we aren't in it? What do you think we should do if retirement programs funded by people still working aren't sustainable? Rant on.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Square Root said:


> There's a big club and we aren't in it? Still sounds paranoid to me? What club is it exactly? What makes you think we aren't in it? What do you think we should do if retirement programs funded by people still working aren't sustainable? Rant on.


The club that Jon Corzine is in. Do you remember him? The guy who ran MF Global, the brokerage firm that went broke by gambling with customers' funds? The firm where $2 billion dollars of clients' money "evaporated" without a trace? How does $2 billion "evaporate" without leaving a paper trail?

Do you know what he is doing now, almost a year later? No, not 10 to 20. He is doing fund raisers for Obama's re-election campaign.

As far as our retirement programs go, the powers that be have been promising us for 50 years that when we came to retire the money would be there. Now that everybody is ready to retire, it seems to have "evaporated".

I recommend you do what Jon Corzine and his billionaire friends do. Retire to your private island in the Mediterranean.

Unless you are not a member of the club. Then I don't know what you are supposed to do. Clip coupons from the paper for 10 cents off dog food I guess.

George Carlin explains the big club

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0


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## Square Root (Jan 30, 2010)

At least George Carlin was funny.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

The older generation didn't screw the younger generation..........the politically powerful wealthy elite........screwed both generations. The visible signs of bad trade policy, weak labor legislation, and a general willingness to comply to the whims of corporations, just happen to become apparent at a point between the two generations.


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## rknigh2 (Jun 5, 2012)

donald said:


> My take-You have to forget the ''old" rules.We(under 35)have to accept rapid change(the days of working for 1 company is over)*professional's incl*just like investments you have to diversify.(if you want to succeed i think you have to constantly be looking out 2/3 yrs,revisit your roadmap)anticapte multiple career changes,reliaze you have to work harder with and on yourself now than era's pasts,Networking is way more important,self reliance is more important.
> 
> Also believe this era requires more skills in creative thinking,critical thinking,higher problem solving skills,better soft skills(people skills,social skills ect)Most of us here(the under 35 demo) pretty sure view themself's as-john smith inc.You have to see yourself as that.
> 
> Imo-most of us were taught the wrong msg from educators-they preached about a world(job security,pensions,tenure ect ect)that does'nt exist in 2012(imagine what 2032 is going to look like?) and beyond-freelancing,side business,social media ect......you have to be more flexiable(more self learning than formal learning).I also think a lot of young people are affriad to fail/change(you almost have to now)-they would rather follow the status quo.If that makes sense.(maybe it's always been like this?)I sounds like a self-help book lol-my 2 cent's(see we don't even have the penny anymore)my 2 dime's.-you got to admit though.....these are exciting times i think...look at how fast everthing is now(esp tech)



You're analysis jives well with me. Adaptation is the key life skill. Post-secondary taught me two things... you're only worth as much as what someone else is willing to pay, and networking is far more beneficial than letters behind your name.

While I would never maliciously take advantage of people, I will gladly leap frog the "status quo" that are content on pushing me ahead. I want to be Walmart. I want to be the person people can't help but give everything to (i.e. pay me to take your job). It blows my mind that consumers flippantly give jobs away (Apple is the newish example). You cannot stop people from being stupid/lazy/"path of least resistance", but you can at least be the one they give all their money to. Cynical maybe... but I don't get paid to teach the ignoramuses they're wrong.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Square Root said:


> At least George Carlin was funny.


I know. Having some snot nosed kid try to rip off your pension isn't funny to me either.


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

I think this rant is going down the wrong path - the title might make sense if you refer to consistent government overspending. Talk about taxation without representation - it is not right that current generations can leave huge debts behind for our future generations. It's legal, but it's not right. If we do this as a family it would considered terrible - but for some reason as a society we seem to think it's OK to saddle our children and grand children with more and more debt to fund our own lifestyles.

Spending must go down, taxes must go up, and we need to pay our own debts. Leaving future generations with a massive debt load is more than just unsustainable it is plain wrong.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

sags said:


> The visible signs of bad trade policy, weak labor legislation, and a general willingness to comply to the whims of corporations, just happen to become apparent at a point between the two generations.


It is always easy to blame "these evil corporations".
Keep in mind that "evil corporations" are not the only rent seekers of society.
We cannot forget the constant pillage of public coffers by organized labor and unions under the pitiful excuse of social justice, hand in glove with the executive and administrative branches of govt.
You only need to look at the socialist economies of Europe to see the effects of that.
Galbraith's "countervailing power" has been taken to a ridicolous level where it has bankrupted society.

And we ought to watch how cocky we are getting here in Canada.


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

Lephturn said:


> I think this rant is going down the wrong path - the title might make sense if you refer to consistent government overspending. Talk about taxation without representation - it is not right that current generations can leave huge debts behind for our future generations. It's legal, but it's not right. If we do this as a family it would considered terrible - but for some reason as a society we seem to think it's OK to saddle our children and grand children with more and more debt to fund our own lifestyles.
> 
> Spending must go down, taxes must go up, and we need to pay our own debts. Leaving future generations with a massive debt load is more than just unsustainable it is plain wrong.


Don't worry about sticking future generations with the national debt. They won't have to pay it. Nobody will ever pay it. They never had any intention of paying it. The national debt has been growing since WW1 and when have they ever paid back any of it? The debt keeps getting bigger and bigger, they keep rolling it over, and politicians can borrow and spend knowing neither they nor anyone else will ever pay any of it back.

This system was explained to me by one of my high school teachers in 1966. He seemed very pleased with the idea as if we were getting something for nothing.

As long as you keep paying the interest everything is fine. There is the nub of the problem. When the government can no longer pay the interest, or when financiers see that day coming in the near future, they stop lending money. As soon as new money stops coming in the whole scam collapses.

That is what is happening in Europe right now. They can't pay the old debt, they can't pay the new debt, they can't even pay the interest, so they give them a bailout. Which simply means more debt. A few months ago they bailed out Greece with a new $130 billion dollar loan. $100 billion of it went straight back to the banks for back interest and the other $30 billion went like wine at a wedding. Now they are broke again.

The farce continues until the whole thing collapses, the slate gets wiped clean and they start all over again. Tough luck on the investors who get wiped out but that's the way the system works. They had a good ride for all those years, but one day the Ponzi collapses.

By the way half of Japan's revenues go to paying interest even at today's record low rates and every year they borrow more. Their national debt is more than twice their GDP, the highest in the world. Wonder how that is going to work out for them.


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## dilbert789 (Apr 20, 2010)

Rusty O'Toole said:


> It is only fair to point out that everything was fine while the boomers were running things. As soon as they started to retire everything went to ****.
> 
> Well Gen X here is your opportunity. 20 years ago you were whining that *all the good jobs were taken and you had to wait for the boomers to retire*. Now your wish is coming true. Time to get off your ***, leave your mom's basement and show us what a great success you can make of things.


This is the issue, a lot of the boomers are now thinking about putting off retirement. The idea of retiring at 65 is now being pushed to 70. The result is that they end up holding up those same jobs even longer. They're also holding positions at rates that are substantially greater than what new workers make. I talked to a police officer in my home town who is 64, works 95 shifts a year and takes home just under $100k. He said he would retire but why? He said they could hire two new guys for what he's making, and the new guys would be working literally 2x as many shifts a year (in total 4x the shifts). That's how the younger generation is getting screwed. You don't have to go to the stock market to see that.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Maybe the Europeans were thinking of an old tradition.......the Debt Jubilee.

Every 100 years, all debt was wiped clean and the economy restarted.

The evil and constraining side of debt has been known for centuries...........but the lessons never learned.


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## fraser (May 15, 2010)

One of the bigger issues with manufacturing in Canada is that our productivity, compared to other similar countries, is actually declining. That can only lead to two things, or both. Loss of jobs to other countries with higher productivity and/or a decline in the standard of living.


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## 44545 (Feb 14, 2012)

dilbert789 said:


> This is the issue, a lot of the boomers are now thinking about putting off retirement. The idea of retiring at 65 is now being pushed to 70. The result is that they end up holding up those same jobs even longer. They're also holding positions at rates that are substantially greater than what new workers make. I talked to a police officer in my home town who is 64, works 95 shifts a year and takes home just under $100k. He said he would retire but why? He said they could hire two new guys for what he's making, and the new guys would be working literally 2x as many shifts a year (in total 4x the shifts). That's how the younger generation is getting screwed. You don't have to go to the stock market to see that.


My experience bears this out. I have several (most, actually) coworkers who are either eligible for retirement but delaying it or already have retired but have come back.

The trickle-down is that less money and effort is put into developing the people at lower levels and there are fewer opportunities for advancement.


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