# Dental care outside of insurance



## Ponderling (Mar 1, 2013)

Right now I have modest dental coverage from work. One root canal, or a couple of fillings and the pot for the rest of the year is empty.

In a few years I will be retired and be takijg dental care on a pay as you go basis.

Two visits ago I had a hygiene appointment that ran for an hour ie 4 units . No dentist check up.
Prior to that the longest anyone had picked my teeth at one sitting was 45 minutes, 3 units.

This week, beginning of March I was back, and asked what they have me slotted for.
One hour of hygiene they said. No dentist check up. He was not in yet. 
I said, nope 45min please. 
Hygienist after all ended up at 50 minutes and I paid 3.5 units. 
I said going forward I would be looking for 45min sessions, and she starts spouting they may want me to sign a waiver if I am not blindly following their suggested intervals and service duration's .

Went to front desk, next appt is 5 year review, poke to measure gum recession, etc as well as cleaning about 1.5 hour session
How about a date in June they propose.
No, I said, lets make it in Sept.

Am I way off track with my feeling that the standard of care here I feel is designed to bill to maximum of insurance cover?

I would be pleased to hear others take on my situation with this dental practice.


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## Synergy (Mar 18, 2013)

Find another dentist.

Even better, brush and floss your teeth after every meal, use a water pick 2x per day and eat a healthy diet. You won't need to bother with routine dental visits. Take things a step further and you can get some dental tools and a polisher. All this for less than one trip to the dentist.

"If most people took care of their teeth I would be out of a job". Ms Trustworthy - hygienist.

We don't have other professionals examining every other orifice every few months just because they may find something interesting. It's not cost effective or necessary. OHIP needs to take it over and provide proper cost effective evidence based care.


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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

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## Tostig (Nov 18, 2020)

Synergy said:


> ... OHIP needs to take it over and provide proper cost effective evidence based care.


Long overdue. There's an election coming up in Ontario this year and Federally next year. Dentalcare needs to be part of the national healthcare program along with pharmacare.


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## Mechanic (Oct 29, 2013)

Ponderling said:


> Right now I have modest dental coverage from work. One root canal, or a couple of fillings and the pot for the rest of the year is empty.
> 
> In a few years I will be retired and be takijg dental care on a pay as you go basis.
> 
> ...


 It's been getting worse. More and more visits for cleaning/examining. Maximizing the dental plan and their profits. My dental plan was fairly pricy and still didn't cover what needed to be done (bridge work, crowns etc) so I had to pay extra for that. I dropped my plan after I retired and the swear the charges dropped for "uninsured" services. My latest dentist tries to get me in every 6 mths but we know that every 12 mths is more than sufficient unless a problem pops up.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

On retirement I declined the offer of dental insurance from my employer's health care benefit. We get $1500 year in a health care spending account, then 90 percent of all medical over $3K I felt at the time the premium was too high and the coverage extremely mediocre. 

Ten years later it was the right decision. We have spent less over this period, even with a root canal, bridge works, and some implants.

We moved to checkups every 9 months on the recommendation of our dentist and the hygienist. Quite often it has extended past nine months because of travel.

Dental care is expensive. We do not know if we are paying too much. Bottom line is that we are happy with our dentist, can afford the treatments, and have no intension of switching.

I was fortunate enough to have the cadillac of employer heath benefit plans prior to retirement. Employer's plan paid 90 percent of our family expenses. I really do not know how people can manage it if they have a few children and no work benefit plans.

At one point we had our daughter tested privately for learning issues. I paid the $3000 fee, submitted the expense but did not think that it would be reimbursed. Ten days later the claim was deposited to our bank account....$2700.


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## off.by.10 (Mar 16, 2014)

That seems like a lot of work very often. I go once a year, cleaning takes maybe 30 minutes top. The exam is a 2 minute thing. Add 5 when I need an x-ray (about every other year). The one time I had a 45 minute cleaning was when I had not gone for over 5 years.

Some places are definitely milking the maximum they can out of insurance. As others have said: use floss and use it properly. That helps keep the cleaning short and your mouth healthy.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Synergy said:


> Find another dentist.


I knew a dentist that actively asked for the maximum to bill all of it.



> Even better, brush and floss your teeth after every meal, use a water pick 2x per day and eat a healthy diet. You won't need to bother with routine dental visits. Take things a step further and you can get some dental tools and a polisher. All this for less than one trip to the dentist.


I'm not sure, some people have "bad teeth"



> We don't have other professionals examining every other orifice every few months just because they may find something interesting. It's not cost effective or necessary. OHIP needs to take it over and provide proper cost effective evidence based care.


My dentist is annual for adults, a bit more frequent for kids.
Dental care is quite reasonable, I think the average hourly bill rate is somewhere around an auto mechanic, maybe dealer auto mechanics, which is quite reasonable IMO.

Just as an aside, I get "better care" from my dentist than my doctor.
They both try to put together emergency slots for those with urgent problems, I even have his cell phone number.
Also try to find a dentist and doctor who's accepting patients, dentist easy, doctor hard.

I'd like better dental care to be available, but if they OHIP it, I'm afraid the quality will drop. One important thing is dentists can bill whatever they want, most bill slightly above the insurance guideline rates. Doctors don't have this option.


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## kcowan2000 (Mar 24, 2020)

Yes making dental a government program will kill their incentives to make money.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

kcowan2000 said:


> Yes making dental a government program will kill their incentives to make money.


Just look at surgery for a pet vs for humans.

You can get pet surgeries booked in a few days, similar procedures for people have waitlists for months.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Synergy said:


> Even better, brush and floss your teeth after every meal, use a water pick 2x per day and eat a healthy diet.


Good tips and Water Pik is a great tool.

Additionally, you might want to buy Colgate Prevident at the pharmacy. It's a high fluoride toothpaste. While dentists disagree on this, some say that high fluoride concentrations (like Prevident) actually do halt and can reverse decay. Fluoride can re-mineralize teeth.

I occasionally brush with some Prevident and leave it on my teeth for some at home "fluoride treatment".

Other dentists think the fluoride won't do much for adult teeth, there's not really a consensus on this but I feel it has helped me.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

Do invest in a water flosser. Just need to do it before going to bed in evening. My dental hygienist was impressed 6 months later.


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## Covariance (Oct 20, 2020)

jlunfirst said:


> Do invest in a water flosser. Just need to do it before going to bed in evening. My dental hygienist was impressed 6 months later.


Would be interested in your recommendation for a make/model


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

Covariance said:


> Would be interested in your recommendation for a make/model


Water Pik, one with 6 different attachments to choose..which I only use 2 of them. All dental hygienists would recommend water flossing. I brush my teeth with toothpaste, then water floss, then use string floss. then lightly brush teeth tooth paste. Leave tiny bit of toothpaste on teeth, etc. if your gums are bleeding. the very light toothpaste helps heal the gums.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Covariance said:


> Would be interested in your recommendation for a make/model


Waterpik is indeed a good tool.

At my last cleaning, the dentist and hygienist were both remarking on the condition of my gums. They seemed surprised / impressed considering I had not been for a cleaning in 14 months.

I mentioned my routine with the waterpik and the dentist himself said: *"Oh yeah, that's a really good idea ... I've got to use mine more regularly too."*

Waterpik is great. I use it about 5 times a week. Beware of the strength setting though, make sure you start using it on the weakest setting and work your way to stronger water flow settings over time.

I would add that water flossing doesn't eliminate the need for regular flossing. You should also do regular flossing. I combine both, sometimes alternate day to day.



jlunfirst said:


> Water Pik, one with 6 different attachments to choose..which I only use 2 of them


I'm curious, which attachments do you use? I use the normal / classic one but haven't ventured into the other pieces.


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## jlunfirst (1 mo ago)

james4beach said:


> Waterpik is indeed a good tool.
> 
> I'm curious, which attachments do you use? I use the normal / classic one but haven't ventured into the other pieces.


What is normal...just the clear regular sized attachment? Yes. There is also a fine rubber tip one that I use occasionally. I also string floss lightly afterwards. If gums still bleed, I brush my teeth lightly with toothpaste and leave some toothpaste residue in mouth to heal gums overnight when I sleep. Tip from dental hygienist.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

jlunfirst said:


> What is normal...just the clear regular sized attachment? Yes. There is also a fine rubber tip one that I use occasionally. I also string floss lightly afterwards. If gums still bleed, I brush my teeth lightly with toothpaste and leave some toothpaste residue in mouth to heal gums overnight when I sleep. Tip from dental hygienist.


You might also want to try Prevident. It's a high fluoride toothpaste that you can "paint" onto teeth, it's kind of like the fluoride treatment they do in the office. Except a bottle of Prevident only costs $14 and will last a year with occasional use.

Sometimes I do a second brushing to get Prevident onto my teeth, then do the string flossing, which will help get the fluoride between teeth.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

jlunfirst said:


> If gums still bleed.....


If you're flossing enough, and properly, then your gums shouldn't bleed.

ltr


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

I use floss every other day and Waterpik on 3 every day. Then I use a mouthwash of one fifth proxident and the rest non-alcoholic mouthwash. I do a deep cleaning twice a year. I also use a rotating brush (Oral B) to keep the plaque and other buildup off the surfaces. Takes 10 minutes.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

I’ve been using an oral B for a couple of years. Not sure it’s doing anything better. I suppose it is based on the science. Having come back from a short vacation where I used a traditional brush, made me realize that I find using the traditional brush much more rewarding. The brush seems to cover more area and froth the toothpaste better.


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

If you're having trouble with bleeding gums, look for a toothpaste without sodium lauryl sulfate or trisodium phosphate. These ingredients are known to harm the delicate skin inside the mouth, especially with frequent use. 

I knew something was wrong because I used to brush my teeth and then notice the skin peeling off inside my mouth. I would also have canker sores and bleeding gums quite often. Since I've cut out those ingredients, I don't get the skin peeling in my mouth, my gums almonst never bleed, and I get much fewer canker sores.


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