# Why cant I preorder at market on the TSX?



## clovis8 (Dec 7, 2010)

I just did my first trades on Questrade and I made some preorders since I cant trade during business hours. I made orders to buy at market. The US equities were all purchased at the start of trading the next day but none of the Canadian equities. 

Questrade informed me you cant preorder at market on the TSX but instead have to preorder with a limit purchase. 

Is this unique to Questrade or for anyone trading on the TSX? What is the point of this rule?

I simply put the order as limit based on the last ask price which is effectively the same thing as ordering at market no?


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## davext (Apr 11, 2010)

Why would you want to pre-order at market? That just sounds too dangerous.


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## mario 1 (Nov 6, 2009)

It's not the same because the last price is not what it will necessarily 
trade at the following day. Just put an order in at one dollar or even one cent.
Although that's not a good way to buy.


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## clovis8 (Dec 7, 2010)

mario 1 said:


> It's not the same because the last price is not what it will necessarily
> trade at the following day. Just put an order in at one dollar or even one cent.
> Although that's not a good way to buy.


it works on all markets but the tsx. why?


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

Yikes - buy orders "at the market" for the open = you getting screwed. It might not be that big a deal for you if you are trading small amounts - but you will lose money doing it that way, it's just a question of how much.

Follow Questrade's suggestion and use limit orders. If you are wanting to make SURE you get filled on the order right away, just set a limit that is certain to be filled.

For example: BCE closed at 35.88 on the Toronto exchange. So put in a Limit order to buy at say 37.00 and you'll definitely get filled. You'll still get taken at the open but this way you can get in. You can be more conservative and set a tighter limit - say 35.92 or something - but if the market opens higher you might not get filled. Try again tomorrow.

That said, I would do some research and set up orders a bit more carefully. Say you put in a limit order for 35.55 and see what happens. If you don't get it today, re-assess and try again the next day. Yes you could miss a move and have it run away from you - but if that happens maybe you wait for a bit of a pullback before buying.


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## davext (Apr 11, 2010)

Let me know what stocks you want or I can just look through your posts. I'll put in a sell order at a ridiculous price prior to the open and maybe you'll end up buying from me.

j/k


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

Buying at market is generally reckless and can lead to an unfortunate surprise.

The reason that TSX prohibits it is because they have more thinly traded issues and that is where the risk is highest.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

lephturn has some good suggestions. Trading to the market but always getting your edge - ie a buy that's better than the offer, a sell that's better than the bid - is more of an art than a science. More than most arts, it's fun to learn.

_" ... [lephturn is citing BCE which closed the previous night at 35.88] ... That said, I would do some research and set up orders a bit more carefully. Say you put in a limit order for 35.55 and see what happens. If you don't get it today, re-assess and try again the next day. Yes you could miss a move and have it run away from you - but if that happens maybe you wait for a bit of a pullback before buying."

_


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> lephturn has some good suggestions. Trading to the market but always getting your edge - ie a buy that's better than the offer, a sell that's better than the bid - is more of an art than a science. More than most arts, it's fun to learn.
> 
> _" ... [lephturn is citing BCE which closed the previous night at 35.88] ... That said, I would do some research and set up orders a bit more carefully. Say you put in a limit order for 35.55 and see what happens. If you don't get it today, re-assess and try again the next day. Yes you could miss a move and have it run away from you - but if that happens maybe you wait for a bit of a pullback before buying."
> 
> _


You can call me Sean if it's easier to spell. 

By the way - BCE opened up at 35.91 and is currently trading at 35.81 - but if you had entered that buy order at 35.55 you would have been filled at about 1:00 PM. The stock traded down to 35.45 a couple of times mid day, and now is climbing back up. That is a good example of why you use limit orders. Had you bought this with a pre-open market order (if you were allowed) you would have paid likely more than the open price - I am guessing 35.95 or so. It would have cost you about 1 % or close to one quarter's dividend.


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

_" ... BCE opened up at 35.91 and is currently trading at 35.81 - but if you had entered that buy order at 35.55 you would have been filled at about 1:00 PM. The stock traded down to 35.45 a couple of times mid day, and now is climbing back up. That is a good example of why you use limit orders. Had you bought this with a pre-open market order (if you were allowed) you would have paid likely more than the open price - I am guessing 35.95 or so. It would have cost you about 1 % or close to one quarter's dividend." _

heed the master.

like they told me on the cboe when i went to work there, Limit Orders Only Because A Market Order Is A License To Steal.


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## Lephturn (Aug 31, 2009)

humble_pie said:


> like they told me on the cboe when i went to work there, Limit Orders Only Because A Market Order Is A License To Steal.


You worked at the CBOE? Do tell!


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## tendim (Nov 18, 2010)

clovis8 said:


> I just did my first trades on Questrade and I made some preorders since I cant trade during business hours. I made orders to buy at market. The US equities were all purchased at the start of trading the next day but none of the Canadian equities.
> 
> Questrade informed me you cant preorder at market on the TSX but instead have to preorder with a limit purchase.
> 
> ...


While a bunch of people have hammered at you as to the _dangers_ of putting in a pre-order at market, I don't think your question was answered. I don't think you can do this because as far as I know the TSX doesn't support pre-market trading, whereas most exchanges do.


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## kcowan (Jul 1, 2010)

tendimg said:


> I don't think your question was answered. I don't think you can do this because as far as I know the TSX doesn't support pre-market trading, whereas most exchanges do.


They don't support it because of the number of thinly-traded stocks that make big losses possible. I think I mentioned this before.


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## mario 1 (Nov 6, 2009)

tendimg said:


> While a bunch of people have hammered at you as to the _dangers_ of putting in a pre-order at market, I don't think your question was answered. I don't think you can do this because as far as I know the TSX doesn't support pre-market trading, whereas most exchanges do.


He's not interested in pre-market orders, you need to read the question more clearly.
I'm sure both my brokers take pre open orders at market, but i use limits so I'm not 100% sure.
As mentioned just put a limit order close to the last trade.


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## tendim (Nov 18, 2010)

clovis8 said:


> I just did my first trades on Questrade and I made some preorders since I cant trade during business hours. I made orders to buy at market. The US equities were all purchased at the start of trading the next day but none of the Canadian equities.





mario 1 said:


> He's not interested in pre-market orders, you need to read the question more clearly.
> I'm sure both my brokers take pre open orders at market, but i use limits so I'm not 100% sure.
> As mentioned just put a limit order close to the last trade.


No, I completely understood the question. You have read my answer more clearly: "I don't think you can do _this_ because as far as I know the TSX doesn't support pre-market trading, whereas most exchanges do." "This" being his original question (place a preorder at market), and I stated that I _don't think_ he can do that because TSX doesn't have a pre-market. My assumption being that without a pre-market, he cannot put in a pre-order at market value. (Of course, this assumption may be wrong, but it is what I was driving at).


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## mario 1 (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok, but I believe your assumption to be wrong.
I can place a market order with Itrade on the TSX on friday and have 
it filled at Mondays open , the problem must be with his broker.


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