# Free chequing accounts? Tangerine, etc



## Siwash (Sep 1, 2013)

Anyone bank with Tangerine? I see they offer a no-fee chequing account. I'm paying $15/month with RBC and the wife $10 with TD. $300 seems like a rip off! 

Any other no-fee institutions out there?

Thanks


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Check out https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/ for possibilities. PC Financial (a division of CIBC) is one.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

I use both PC Financial and Tangerine. I never got checks with Tangerine, I use PC Financial for that, cheques are free and no bank fees.


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## RCB (Jan 11, 2014)

Scotia has a money-back chequing account. You pay the monthly service fee, but get $x back based on your debit purchases, paid annually before Christmas. I don't spend much money, but for the last two years I have received more back than fees paid.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

I also bank with Tangerine and PCF.

The Tangerine (really ING Direct) account was opened before they offered cheques and while the PCF cheques are free, I have no need to setup a Tangerine one where the last I investigated, after the first book of cheques - the rest are for a fee.


Cheers


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Ag Driver said:


> Most credit unions. I pay zero fee's at my credit union -- in fact, they pay ME in profit shares for every $1000 I have with in liabilities and savings, PLUS they pay me interest.
> 
> Not sure why anyone banks with the traditional banks.


Depends on your province. Here in Québec, credit unions are no different from big banks and have the same (or higher) fees and even worse rates on GICs etc.

Tangerine is really the only viable option in Québec that I'm aware of; there are workarounds for PCF but they're not simple (you have to physically go to Ontario to open your account). I've been with ING and then Tangerine for years and am completely happy with them; we even have our mortgage with them and have gotten good rates and a generous policy on early payoff; we're paying off our 15-year mortgage in less than 10 years and if we had the money we could have paid it all off in 4 years without penalty.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Tangerine charges for cheques, but has free e-cheques. PCF has free cheques, but charges for e-mail transfers.

Six of one, really. 

I got my fees at TD waived by asking (threatening). I would ask what RBC and TD can do, then go shopping. Make sure there is an ATM near your home and office for your choice - they really get you with the interac fees.

I use PCF (TD for my business), my husband uses a credit union.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Both PC Financial and Tangerine are excellent for everyday chequing and saving accounts to keep your bank fees zero or at least very low.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

The one thing that annoys me about tangerine is that you don't seem able to get us dollars except at a tangerine cafe. Anyone find a way around that?


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## 0xCC (Jan 5, 2012)

Try going to a Scotiabank branch?


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## jrsaballa (Nov 22, 2015)

Gotta go to Tangerine pavillion to get a card

Currently highly recommend a Tangerine account, and PCF seems less


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## ykphil (Dec 13, 2009)

I've been banking with Tangerine (ING) for years, and I am very satisfied. Until March 31, 2016, for every person I successfully refer who opens their first Tangerine Account with an initial deposit of $100 or more using my Orange Key (20950261S1), we will both earn a Bonus of $50. 

You can open an account on line, and activate it at a Canada Post Outlet or a Tangerine Café instead of needing to send them a cheque from another bank account.

https://www.tangerine.ca/en/spending/chequing-account/index.html


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## humble_pie (Jun 7, 2009)

latebuyer said:


> The one thing that annoys me about tangerine is that you don't seem able to get us dollars except at a tangerine cafe. Anyone find a way around that?



why not connect a USD account from another bank electronically to your tangerine account. Then WD from tang & collect at local bank a couple days later.

note: investors at discount brokers that support bank accounts connected to each broker account as primary deposit/withdraw conduits - BMO is one - will likely find that these virtual bank accounts do support electronic fund transfers to & from tangerine. Even in USD.

in other words, if your broker account has a contiguous bank account, it's possible to transfer USD from broker to tangerine & also from tangerine to broker. No need for any intermediary branch-based USD account.

the problem here is that so few brokers are supporting these virtual bank accounts, which also offer printed cheques & cheque-writing privileges (usually with charges, after 2 freebie withdrawals/cheques per month.)


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

jrsaballa said:


> Gotta go to Tangerine pavillion to get a card ...


That's a change ... I never visited a ING Direct or Tangerine pavilion.




jrsaballa said:


> Currently highly recommend a Tangerine account, and PCF seems less ...


As I say ... on the chequing account front, I have yet to see anything worth having to pay $12.50 for the 2nd and future books of cheques.
Not to mention, having yet another account but that's me ... YMMV.


Cheers


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## Joe Black (Aug 3, 2015)

jrsaballa said:


> Gotta go to Tangerine pavillion to get a card
> 
> Currently highly recommend a Tangerine account, and PCF seems less


Why is PCF "less"? I like that I get free cheques with them, and can use the debit card at several grocery chains without a fee. Otherwise, they are pretty much the same.

The one thing I do like better about Tangerine is that with their promotional rates you see the extra interest at the end of each month, while with PCF you don't get it until the end of the promotion period.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Siwash said:


> Anyone bank with Tangerine? I see they offer a no-fee chequing account. I'm paying $15/month with RBC and the wife $10 with TD. $300 seems like a rip off!
> 
> Any other no-fee institutions out there?
> 
> Thanks


1- Join your accounts together so you only have 1 account to manage. _Never understood why couples have separate accounts._
2- Most banks (at least Scotiabank does) offer chequing accounts where if you maintain a minimum balance of $2000 (or other amount depending account type), you benefit from all the account options for free.


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## wendi1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Not to hijack, but to answer Mortgage: couples keep separate accounts in case of divorce or death, and so that each keeps a credit rating and history. It is also nice to be able to buy a birthday present for the other without ruining the surprise.

When my MIL died, their joint account was frozen until the executor could unfreeze it. When my parents separated, my mother had no credit rating, and no bank account of her own.

In my household, we each have chequing accounts, and separate credit cards, while we share one credit card for household expenses.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Wendi1, glad you brought up the point. However I still disagree. If you're keeping finances separate in case of divorce, then you're basically setting yourself up for just that - divorce. A husband and wife unite as One, for better or worse, right? Otherwise, why get married?

In case of death, the accounts are only frozen if someone advises the bank. Until you do, the surviving joint holder can access the account and use the needed funds until they are ready to settle the estate.

I know a lot of people have the same ideology (separate accounts) but I think those couples are at a great disadvantage. The savings and growth potential are so much better when the finances are combined. 

Just a quick example and for those who understand the stock market, what buys you more shares; $100 or $200 if a stock price is $66? You see, separately you can own 1 share each. But together, you can have 3.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Wendi1, glad you brought up the point. However I still disagree. If you're keeping finances separate in case of divorce, then you're basically setting yourself up for just that - divorce. A husband and wife unite as One, for better or worse, right? Otherwise, why get married?


This is one of those "just because" arguments: it's based more on tradition and ideology than practicality. I've been on other forums where people debated this and a surprising number of happily married couples have separate finances; some of them have been married for 30-40 years and found that separate finances made for a more peaceful marriage. But it's not an all-or-nothing consideration: you can have some accounts jointly and keep others separate, depending on what works best for your specific situation and personalities. My partner and I have a joint mortgage and own our house jointly, but our checking and savings accounts are separate. We've been together 15 years now and have never argued about money. It works for us, and that's the important thing.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Wendi1, glad you brought up the point. However I still disagree. If you're keeping finances separate in case of divorce, then you're basically setting yourself up for just that - divorce. A husband and wife unite as One, for better or worse, right? Otherwise, why get married?


YMMV ... my parents had separate as well as joint accounts with no divorce (setup or no setup).





Mortgage u/w said:


> In case of death, the accounts are only frozen if someone advises the bank. Until you do, the surviving joint holder can access the account and use the needed funds until they are ready to settle the estate.


So for an estate like my uncle's that took three years to wrap up ... it's going to be okay to keep dipping into the shared account when there's info out there that there's been a death?




Mortgage u/w said:


> The savings and growth potential are so much better when the finances are combined.


Assuming they can agree on the plan ... sure. 

Where there are opposite views, it is a way to avoid arguments and possibly divorce as "you go the GIC route in your account and I'll go the 100% equity route in mine".


Cheers


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## Woz (Sep 5, 2013)

I keep separate savings and brokerage accounts for income splitting reasons. I earn more and my spouse is going to retire earlier than I am so all expenses come out of my account leaving my spouses paycheque to be fully invested. Separate accounts allows for a much cleaner paper trail.

I’m not sure I follow what the savings and growth potential is with having joint accounts. The overall holdings are the same regardless of the number of accounts and the fractional share issue is kind of negligible. With two accounts you’d have at most 1 share’s worth of non-invested cash, $66 in your example, which would have a negligible impact on your overall return.

Avoiding probate is the only real benefit I can think of for joint accounts, but at 1.4% I personally don’t feel it’s worth the risk of having investment income being attributed to myself.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Continuing to hijack the thread, couples with joint accounts need to keep a paper trail of whose funds are earning investment income so that the income can be properly attributed back to the contributor of the funds for tax purposes. CRA will require it should they come calling. One cannot just say funds are 50/50 in a joint account if they have not been contributed to the account in that ratio.

It is much easier to keep a paper trail with separate accounts OR two JTWROS accounts, one with one spouse's name first (containing 100% of that spouse's contributions), and the other with the other spouse's name first (containing 100% of the other spouse's funds). We did that for 40 years. 

Pooling funds for investment purposes is a nitemare unless the paper trail always shows a consistent ratio of contributions, e.g. 50/50 or 60/40, etc. forever. Never change the ratio or the paper trail becomes a complex spreadsheet exercise.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

Just want to clarify that I am not knocking the idea of separate accounts for couples. It obviously works for most and that's great. I just think people complicate things when it comes to their finances. Having joint finances with my wife have made a huge impact on OUR personal wealth. Note I said 'OUR'. There are no 'IOUs' and no 'mine or yours'. Like the saying goes, 'there are no I's in TEAM'. If we split up, well its going to be 50/50 for whatever was created from the day we said 'I do'. 

As for Electric12: I don't see why you would need to dip into the chequing account for 3 years time.....I would be more concerned with the fact it took so long to settle the estate. If your uncle had joint accounts, it would have been simple - all would be transferred to the joint holder.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Just want to clarify that I am not knocking the idea of separate accounts for couples. It obviously works for most and that's great. I just think people complicate things when it comes to their finances. Having joint finances with my wife have made a huge impact on OUR personal wealth. Note I said 'OUR'. There are no 'IOUs' and no 'mine or yours'.


We don't have an IOUs either, despite separate finances. Instead we divide responsibilities according to our means, same way we divide chores. When you clean the house, do you jointly vaccum and clean the bathroom side by side? Probably not: usually people work out a sharing of responsibilities: I cook supper, you wash the dishes. You vaccum the floor, I clean the bathroom. Same thing can work with finances: I pay the mortgage, you pay the property taxes. I buy the groceries and pay for restaurants, you pay for utilities. That's how we work it, and almost never transfer funds between our accounts, there's no need. We each have our own responsibilities for paying the costs of running our joint expenses (food, shelter, etc.), and how we spend/save the rest is up to us.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

brad said:


> We don't have an IOUs either, despite separate finances. Instead we divide responsibilities according to our means, same way we divide chores. When you clean the house, do you jointly vaccum and clean the bathroom side by side? Probably not: usually people work out a sharing of responsibilities: I cook supper, you wash the dishes. You vaccum the floor, I clean the bathroom. Same thing can work with finances: I pay the mortgage, you pay the property taxes. I buy the groceries and pay for restaurants, you pay for utilities. That's how we work it, and almost never transfer funds between our accounts, there's no need. We each have our own responsibilities for paying the costs of running our joint expenses (food, shelter, etc.), and how we spend/save the rest is up to us.


Funny how we each have our own views......which I have to say are all valid points.

Now my question to you is: should your spouse (or yourself) lose their source of income, would you not come in and cover their share of expenses? If yes, would you expect that money back? Or, would you expect your spouse to live off their 'own separate' savings? If yes, what would happen if there are no savings or they simply run out? 

I understand your point....I just don't think we all view this subject from all possible angles and scenarios.


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Now my question to you is: should your spouse (or yourself) lose their source of income, would you not come in and cover their share of expenses? If yes, would you expect that money back? Or, would you expect your spouse to live off their 'own separate' savings? If yes, what would happen if there are no savings or they simply run out?


Sure, I'd cover her share of the expenses and I wouldn't expect the money back. We have a big income disparity, and when we reach retirement age I'll be covering the majority of our expenses since she has very little saved up for retirement compared with me. That's similar to how it is now: our incomes are very different so our responsibilities are different.

It's probably trickier when both partners have equal incomes, but when there's a big income disparity the responsibilities and burdens get shifted according to who can afford what. I've paid about 90 percent of the mortgage on our house, even though we own the house equally and if we ever split she'd get half the money from the sale. But that feels fair to me -- it would be unreasonable to expect her to pay half of the mortgage or to own less than half the house.


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## Mortgage u/w (Feb 6, 2014)

brad said:


> Sure, I'd cover her share of the expenses and I wouldn't expect the money back. We have a big income disparity, and when we reach retirement age I'll be covering the majority of our expenses since she has very little saved up for retirement compared with me. That's similar to how it is now: our incomes are very different so our responsibilities are different.
> 
> It's probably trickier when both partners have equal incomes, but when there's a big income disparity the responsibilities and burdens get shifted according to who can afford what. I've paid about 90 percent of the mortgage on our house, even though we own the house equally and if we ever split she'd get half the money from the sale. But that feels fair to me -- it would be unreasonable to expect her to pay half of the mortgage or to own less than half the house.


So why the separate finances if at the end its all shared anyways!? Lol!


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> Just want to clarify that I am not knocking the idea of separate accounts for couples. It obviously works for most and that's great. I just think people complicate things when it comes to their finances. Having joint finances with my wife have made a huge impact on OUR personal wealth. Note I said 'OUR'. There are no 'IOUs' and no 'mine or yours'. Like the saying goes, 'there are no I's in TEAM'. If we split up, well its going to be 50/50 for whatever was created from the day we said 'I do'.


That is well and good and is a matter of personal choice, but you have not addressed the question of how you keep the paper trail for attribution of income for tax purposes. How do you prove to CRA that what you declare on your tax return for investment income is a result of your contributions to investments vs what your spouse declares on her tax return for investment income? It would be an improbable coincidence for it to be 50/50.

I will suggest keeping track of the paper trail is a lot more complicated commingling funds, than when the funds are kept separate. They can still be in joint accounts, but 2 joint accounts as I described above.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> So why the separate finances if at the end its all shared anyways!? Lol!


That is not the point....Separation and divorce and division of assets is an entirely separate thing from what needs to be done for tax filings each year.

Added: As an example, you cannot contribute $10k to a GIC and your spouse $5k and then split the interest income 50/50 on your tax returns. It has to be split 2/3rds and 1/3rd. How do you keep track of that?


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## brad (May 22, 2009)

Mortgage u/w said:


> So why the separate finances if at the end its all shared anyways!? Lol!


Because it's a lot easier to manage. If I want to buy something or she wants to buy something, there's no need to "ask permission" or to worry whether I'm going to buy something that'll reduce our joint discretionary funds, making it then impossible for her to buy something she wants. We share responsibility for living expenses: shelter, food, etc., but as I said before the rest is up to us. Once her responsibilities to our household expenses are covered, how she spends or saves the rest is entirely up to her. Same goes for me. There has to be a level of trust, of course, but we know each other well and we're both responsible with our finances. It would be a different story if one of us was a spendthrift and the other a tightwad.

That's what I mean by finding a solution that works for your particular situation and personalities. Our arrangement works beautifully for us, but it might not work for someone else.


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