# Are you called cheap?



## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Are you called cheap? Does it bother you? What is your response?

I have a friend who calls me cheap and it really annoys me. Frankly, I feel as her parents paid for her entire condo she is out of touch with reality in terms of spending and saving. Perhaps i can be a bit cheap sometimes, but i wouldn't say all the time. Indeed, with the amount i eat out i would say i'm not cheap at all and that is an area to work on. I guess i'm venting here but I am not sure how to respond when people call me cheap.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Some people will never get it, particularly if they were handed a lot of things.

I think cheapness is more irrational unwillingness to spend, or lack of generosity where appropriate. Choosing not to spend money on things you don't really want is not cheapness.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

This site may provide some insight:

https://squirrelers.com/what-do-you-call-someone-who-is-careful-with-money/


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

I’m willing to swap visa bills with most people sight unseen, even though I pay it off each month. I’ve been called a number of names over the years, I don’t take offence especially when I look at my monthly deposits. I realize that people who are less successful have to attack others to make themselves feel better. 

This doesn’t mean I spend unwisely. I rarely pay retail, but I’m not cheap. I negotiate for good quality product. 

Of course giving kids money or stuff doesn’t do them any favours. That’s how you get kids who feel entitled to everything. My kids wanted an allowance when they were little, I said fine but I’d stop buying them stuff. They quickly decided they didn’t want an allowance. Instead I bought them a vending machine and put them into business and passive income. If they worked on it, they’d do well, if not they wouldn’t. My kids went hardcore on it. Tracked sales by product, researched places to buy product at the lowest prices, basically became businessmen preteen. 

Now, when my kids want to buy a property and may not qualify for a mortgage right away, I may buy the property and act as the mortgage for them until they can refinance and pay me back. This is how real life works. No one pays you to take out the garbage or do dishes in real life, why let them think that as kids. My kids have a better understanding of business, passive income and investing than most adults. I think the other way is doing them a disservice.


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## jargey3000 (Jan 25, 2011)

i prefer 'frugal'....


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

agent99 said:


> This site may provide some insight:
> 
> https://squirrelers.com/what-do-you-call-someone-who-is-careful-with-money/


Thanks, i like the terms smart, careful and well disciplined.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

jargey3000 said:


> i prefer 'frugal'....


Not the same as cheap though often misused by people.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

latebuyer said:


> Are you called cheap? Does it bother you? What is your response?


1> Sometimes called cheap.
2> Doesn't bother me.
3> I point out their error, I'm frugal.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

To a spender, a saver will always appear to be cheap. That is because a spender does not understand savers, so they figure that the saver must have some warped attraction to money, solely for the sake of having it. Obviously that is not the case. Savers like money for the financial stability it brings and the idea of all it can do for them in the future, none of which has anything to do with spending it. If a spender understood that, they too would be a saver, so my point about their lack of understanding is obvious.

Don't even try to educate them, it's way too late anyway. If it ever comes to blows I just point out that the days of my week consists of getting up when I want, doing whatever I want, whenever I want. Add to that, the point about not owing a red cent to anyone and after a quick review in their minds of their over burdening mortgage, auto and credit card debts, it usually shuts them up pretty quick. That they can understand, at least for the time it takes to hear it.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

latebuyer said:


> Are you called cheap? Does it bother you? What is your response?
> 
> I have a friend who calls me cheap and it really annoys me. Frankly, I feel as her parents paid for her entire condo she is out of touch with reality in terms of spending and saving. Perhaps i can be a bit cheap sometimes, but i wouldn't say all the time. Indeed, with the amount i eat out i would say i'm not cheap at all and that is an area to work on. I guess i'm venting here but I am not sure how to respond when people call me cheap.


 ...my definition: 

You're cheap if you get someone else to pay for the bill(s), when you're well able to pay for your own, including your portion of use/consumption.

You're not cheap if you're paying for it yourself.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

So the poor and people like sags are cheap by your definition as well as all public sector workers?

To me, savers are foolish. Savings are eaten up by inflation and taxes. Being in debt on self paying assets which are inflation proof is a better way. The debt is lowered by inflation, the cost of the debt is written off against taxes and, if the fiat currency collapse, you have assets which won’t disappear. 

When I was living debt free, l almost lost everything when disaster hit, only by using debt as a proper too did I achieve financial security.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A saver is frugal today because they worry about tomorrow. A spender lives for today and lets tomorrow look after itself.

People are just different. It isn't right versus wrong. It is just a choice of when people want to worry.........now or later.

If people won't spend any money today they can have a miserable life. If they blow all their money today, they can have a miserable retirement.

A practical balance of spending and income is the solution, so people who earn more can obviously afford to spend more and vice versa.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> So the poor and people like sags are cheap by your definition as well as all public sector workers?


 ... why're you dragging sags into this? As well as making it political with the poor and all public sector workers? Or expanding my definition to include those? Or trying to hijack my definition to include yours? 

Let me put it this way, you could choose not to pay your taxes to support the poor or use your services from the public sector. Go on, keep whining ... the world goes on.



> To me, savers are foolish. Savings are eaten up by inflation and taxes. Being in debt on self paying assets which are inflation proof is a better way. The debt is lowered by inflation, the cost of the debt is written off against taxes and, if the fiat currency collapse, you have assets which won’t disappear.
> 
> When I was living debt free, l almost lost everything when disaster hit, only by using debt as a proper too did I achieve financial security.


 ... right, if everyone is able to leverage as successfully as you have (or think like you), then "we" will "all" be rich. Then what does that make you?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> So the poor and people like sags are cheap by your definition as well as all public sector workers?
> 
> To me, savers are foolish. Savings are eaten up by inflation and taxes. Being in debt on self paying assets which are inflation proof is a better way. The debt is lowered by inflation, the cost of the debt is written off against taxes and, if the fiat currency collapse, you have assets which won’t disappear.
> 
> When I was living debt free, l almost lost everything when disaster hit, only by using debt as a proper too did I achieve financial security.


Do you really think all those people that are "not cheap" are only borrowing money for money making purposes?

This is not a discussion on whether leveraged investing is better then non-leveraged investing. It is a discussion about whether it makes sense to overspend today with all the issues that causes for tomorrow, compared to saving today for the benefit of tomorrow.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

I've met plenty of people who are 'cheap' and others who are 'frugal'. Those two words are not synonymous. Perhaps you need to tell your friend to widen her knowledge enough to be able to tell the difference between the two. 

Of course, first you need to make sure you are in fact being 'frugal' and not 'cheap'. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=che.....69i57j0l5.3418j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

We don't know if your friend is actually telling you the truth or not, do we. I for one am not about to ASSUME or guess as to whether you are cheap or frugal.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> Do you really think all those people that are "not cheap" are only borrowing money for money making purposes?
> 
> This is not a discussion on whether leveraged investing is better then non-leveraged investing. It is a discussion about whether it makes sense to overspend today with all the issues that causes for tomorrow, compared to saving today for the benefit of tomorrow.


I thought it was a discussion about what you do if someone calls you cheap. Any discussion about leveraged investing OR overspending vs. saving is a long way off topic from that. So you're both equally off topic I would say.

If one person calls you cheap, you may only be being frugal but it does not hurt to think about whether that person is right and no one else is bothering to tell you the truth. Worth checking as I said. If multiple people tell you that you are cheap, chances are you actually are cheap and again it is worth making sure you understand the difference.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

latebuyer said:


> Indeed, with the amount i eat out i would say i'm not cheap at all and that is an area to work on.


This seems to be the main differentiation among colleagues, besides I suppose how you dress and/or what you drive.

When I started working everyone seemed to eat out and it was an important time to network. If your boss invites you out for lunch that can can be very important face time for you both. If you are on a work trip or working with a new business etc it's a key time to network with new faces as well. So you might save $5/day and miss out of $$$ promotions thanks to networking

I found it interesting today a lot of my young american colleagues turn down eating out with colleagues to eat healthy home made avocado salads and hit the gym or meditate so maybe the health benefits will trump the old fashion networking


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ...my definition:
> 
> You're cheap if you get someone else to pay for the bill(s), when you're well able to pay for your own, including your portion of use/consumption.
> 
> You're not cheap if you're paying for it yourself.


Not changing your definition at all.

The public sector and the poor live off tax dollars, by definition tax dollars is money from other people. Someone else is paying their bills. Sure they may pay taxes as well, but the money for them to pay taxes came from someone else. The only people who contribute new money is the private sector. 

As for sags, he’s the one always advocating for UBI, government handouts, etc. Technically he may not fit your definition but seems he regrets the fact that he can’t fit it. 

I’m not twisting your definition at all, maybe what you said isn’t what you meant.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> So the poor and people like sags are cheap by your definition as well as all public sector workers?
> 
> To me, savers are foolish. Savings are eaten up by inflation and taxes. Being in debt on self paying assets which are inflation proof is a better way. The debt is lowered by inflation, the cost of the debt is written off against taxes and, if the fiat currency collapse, you have assets which won’t disappear.
> 
> When I was living debt free, l almost lost everything when disaster hit, only by using debt as a proper too did I achieve financial security.


Was this really necessary? We are talking about spending habits, specifically consumer spending not investing, nor how does one choose to finance their investing. Yes, you are one in your and wonderful at what you do. But it gets much with the public sector. The employees their are not getting hands , they exchange their time for money’s to provide a service. Whether or not you agree on what and how much they get paid, is irrelevant. I have worked private, and public, and there is good and bad in both. I am current public, and I assure you that the public is getting a GREAT value on me. I consistently get offers at 20-40% more than than my overall compensation package. I choose not to take them for various reasons. 

People are often ‘surprised’ when they find out I an I’m public because of the amount of time I spend at work and in the evenings. They are also apologetic when they have made douchbag comments. But that is not behind a screen.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Beaver101 said:


> ... right, if everyone is able to leverage as successfully as you have (or think like you), then "we" will "all" be rich. Then what does that make you?


I’ve never really claimed to be rich, I claim to be financially free. I have liquid assets, I’ve got non liquid assets, both of which produce money, unlike money in a savings account. If you believe money in a savings account is keeping up with inflation and such, you clearly have no understanding of how finances work. You’ll notice I didn’t say waste your money anywhere, but producing cash flow every month is better than losing money every month.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

OptsyEagle said:


> Do you really think all those people that are "not cheap" are only borrowing money for money making purposes?
> 
> This is not a discussion on whether leveraged investing is better then non-leveraged investing. It is a discussion about whether it makes sense to overspend today with all the issues that causes for tomorrow, compared to saving today for the benefit of tomorrow.


Never said anything about leveraged investing. I said money in a savings account loses money every month. You could buy a bank stock which earns a 5% dividend and capital gains, while being a liquid investment, and do better than putting the money in that same bank. 

People who leverage are even better off because their debt lowers with inflation and they get tax benefits. It’s a reality what are you trying to argue?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> I thought it was a discussion about what you do if someone calls you cheap. Any discussion about leveraged investing OR overspending vs. saving is a long way off topic from that. So you're both equally off topic I would say.


That is because you are not seeing the question correctly. How could you, when you are simply taking it word for word.

To end a discussion in your favour, it never hurts to understand WHY a person would say what they say. They don't always mean what it sounds like. Since cheap is an opinion, knowing why that opinion exists would help a person dramatically.

Although there would be exceptions, in my opinion the majority of people who call anyone cheap most likely have a spender's personality. That is how I saw the question, anyway, and I posted how I deal with that train of thought. 

Spending will always sound like it is more fun then saving, so unless, the saver gets a chance to explain the fact that there are real benefits to saving, and add the fact that almost all spenders are in debt. Most wallowing in it. And debt is just another name for spending your future, today, reducing the fun you can have in the future, the argument starts to sway in the other direction.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Plugging Along said:


> Was this really necessary? We are talking about spending habits, specifically consumenot investing, nor how does one choose to finance their investing.


I was responding to the statements made by beaver and optsy before that. It was part of the thread. I don’t agree with what beaver said, I don’t think she does either. I also pointed out a problem with “savers” from optsy’s post.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> Never said anything about leveraged investing. I said money in a savings account loses money every month. You could buy a bank stock which earns a 5% dividend and capital gains, while being a liquid investment, and do better than putting the money in that same bank.
> 
> People who leverage are even better off because their debt lowers with inflation and they get tax benefits. It’s a reality what are you trying to argue?


No one is arguing your math, but the bankruptcy courts are full of people that would disagree about the benefits of debt and leverage. 

My main argument, is not about borrowing money to buy investments, or even the house you live in. I don't have a problem with mortgage debt, but I don't miss having one either. My main problem is credit card debt and lines of credit used to fund spending above ones earnings. I really don't see how that fixes anyone's problems, but I can certainly see how it can create a few.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

What exactly is cheap anyway? My son was working over the summer with people who easily made six figure salaries. He found out the vast majority were living paycheque to paycheque. I guess they aren’t cheap. Not smart either. My son wasn’t cheap either, he bought himself a good used car and a condo to rent, probably spent more than his colleagues in the same time period, but he doesn’t have to pay for all his bills and he’s frugal on what he buys, nor does he waste his money on drugs, alcohol, toys, etc. Then there are those who go multiple times through the checkout lines to beat the price limits. Or my uncle who lived through the Great Depression. Then there are the extreme couponers in the states...I’m off today to get an iPad because it’s Black Friday, am I cheap because I didn’t pay more yesterday?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Back to the regular thread without all the policies crap of consumer spending. 

No I am not cheap but I am frugal. I spend the minimum amount I need to get the value I want. I consider cheap as one who make choices at the expense of themselves or others. Very much like Beavers definition. 

I spend time looking for the best prices on what I want, but will not ever take advantage of someone else. I would say if someone is calling you cheap, I would see if you are doing some things that are cheap. If you are never go Not out, but you want to with friends but you don’t want to spend for a drink, then it might be cheap. I often look for less expensive options. So friends want to go on a night of fine dining and drinks, I may offer a less expensive place, or come a little later for dessert and drinks. That’s assuming money was tight.

I think if you are saving money at the expense of your enjoyment and put don’t need too, that may be a little cheap. But it’s a fine line. 

To answer OPs question. My friends and family consider me smart and frugal, so they usually come to me for ideas to save money. I have seldomly been called cheap, if I have it’s probably because I crossed A line inadvertently. 

If i am called cheap, I ask myself if my actions impacted my happiness (usually not), or those around me, usually not, or is it the ‘corporation’. Which is the most likely case. Then if it doesn’t impact any of those I tell them I fugal. If I was cheap I apologize and take it as a learning.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

OptsyEagle said:


> That is because you are not seeing the question correctly. How could you, when you are simply taking it word for word.
> 
> To end a discussion in your favour, it never hurts to understand WHY a person would say what they say. They don't always mean what it sounds like. Since cheap is an opinion, knowing why that opinion exists would help a person dramatically.
> 
> ...


You must be joking. The OP was quite clear in what she was saying and asking. "Are you called cheap? Does it bother you? What is your response?" She was not asking what what YOU think someone who calls anyone cheap is like in terms of personality. There is no way to have seen the questions asked as being 'what is the personality of someone who calls me cheap like? Utter nonsense.

The OP has been called cheap and is asking how to deal with that. The answer is, first ascertain if you are in fact cheap or frugal and then decide what to do. If you are in fact cheap, thank the friend for bringing it to your attention and look at how to change it. Being cheap can lose you friends and is never a good attribute to have. If you are in fact frugal and not cheap, then it is time to discuss the difference with your friend to help your friend understand the difference.

ANY discussion about a spenders personality, spending vs. saving or leveraging investing, etc. is COMPLETELY off topic.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

OptsyEagle said:


> No one is arguing your math, but the bankruptcy courts are full of people that would disagree about the benefits of debt and leverage.
> 
> My main argument, is not about borrowing money to buy investments, or even the house you live in. I don't have a problem with mortgage debt, but I don't miss having one either. My main problem is credit card debt and lines of credit used to fund spending above ones earnings. I really don't see how that fixes anyone's problems, but I can certainly see how it can create a few.


Unlike you, I suspect, when I lived debt free I got injured and lost my income for several years...basically lost everything because I was debt free with no income to maintain that status. It’s not as secure as you think it is. 

As for debt, it’s a tool. Used properly you can build wonderful things, used improperly it can kill you. The same as a chainsaw or a gun. If you looked at my holdings, you’d probably be very comfortable with my debt levels compared to the asset values and cash flow from them. There have been many postings on this board where I’ve actively criticized their ideas because they are foolish. Don’t use debt just because you can, use it wisely. 

If I were to get injured today, my income wouldn’t really be affected at all. My net worth grew exponentially because of debt. It was used wisely and no overextended to any degree. I don’t believe in credit card debt, but my credit cards are over 5 figures every month which I pay off every month and get cash back and other benefits as well. Using a credit card is not bad, using it improperly, living beyond your means is different though. 

You’ll notice I also don’t advocate deficit budgets or overspending for the government either.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Just a Guy said:


> What exactly is cheap anyway? My son was working over the summer with people who easily made six figure salaries. He found out the vast majority were living paycheque to paycheque. I guess they aren’t cheap. Not smart either. My son wasn’t cheap either, he bought himself a good used car and a condo to rent, probably spent more than his colleagues in the same time period, but he doesn’t have to pay for all his bills and he’s frugal on what he buys, nor does he waste his money on drugs, alcohol, toys, etc. Then there are those who go multiple times through the checkout lines to beat the price limits. Or my uncle who lived through the Great Depression. Then there are the extreme couponers in the states...I’m off today to get an iPad because it’s Black Friday, am I cheap because I didn’t pay more yesterday?


Income has nothing to do with cheap or necessarily what you spend [preference]. on IMO. Your son sounds smart. He doesn’t see value to the drugs, toys, and crap. That’s just a preference (a smart one if you ask me). If you son uses other peoples toys, and takes their drugs, stuff without paying his share, he would be cheap. He is consuming at the expense of others. A more realistic example, I can tell who is cheap in my office based on when there is free food. I see a couple of people consistory be the first in line , or take EVERYTHING (putting it in containers) for themselves, but yet NEVER contribute. I bring things in all the time, and see who always takes but never bring s anything. That is cheap. 

Buying a iPad on Black Friday, super smart assuming you wanted it anyways. I am doing similar today. I bought some Xmas items last weekend knowing they are on sale today, I will bringing it for a price adjustment [i already asked when I bought]. I wanted the sized and selection but today I get the price. Cheap would be buying it, using it then returning. I think cheap comes done to impacting others.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Longtimeago said:


> ANY discussion about a spenders personality, spending vs. saving or leveraging investing, etc. is COMPLETELY off topic.


Probably 90% of the threads fog off topic on this board, not sure why you and plugging are suddenly so angry that this one is. The off topic discussion Is often interesting and the conversation has a way of coming back on topic in the end anyway. Live with it.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

thanks for the replies. The current situation is that she asked me for lunch or dinner and then said she knew i would choose lunch because i was cheap. Perhaps that was a little true - i personally find lunch good value and sometimes you can find the same things at lunch as dinner for cheaper. Still it is ongoing she calls me cheap. and i feel it is a form of peer pressure as she goads me to spend more money. As people have said, i should be proud i'm not a debt ridden spender like most of society. Also, i did exceed my savings goals this year. I know 3 single women who have nothing saved for retirement and i certainly don't want to be in that situation. Overall i think i need to learn to be a little less sensitive. Also i need to recognize that being cheap (or frugal as some people said) has helped me reach my goals.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Cheap would have been expecting her to pay for you. I too prefer lunches but that’s because I live outside of town. I’m often in town during the day for other reasons, so lunch isn’t a big deal and I’m always looking for reasons to procrastinate. Dinner, on the other hand usually means I have to leave my house again and drive back into town when I may already be tired. Sometimes there is more to it than others think. They often make assumptions based on limited information.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Its true, the other reason is i find some people like to eat late and i like to eat early. I'll have to make her eat early as a compromise since i agreed to go to dinner.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

We are not cheap but we do shop on value. Often value is far more important to us than price. Once we have decided on a specific product we do want to obtain the best price taking into account other considerations such as after sales service, return policy, vendor reputation, etc. If that is cheap, then I guess I am cheap! We are generous with others and we are never hesitate to help out relatives who, in our opinion, respect money. We are not about to help out someone who will only squander it.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Just a Guy said:


> Unlike you, I suspect, when I lived debt free I got injured and lost my income for several years...basically lost everything because I was debt free with no income to maintain that status. It’s not as secure as you think it is.


I think I know what you are trying to say but you keep emphasizing the debt. It wasn't the debt that would saved you, quite the contrary. It was the assets you bought with the debt that had any ability to save you. You would have been much better off with the assets and no debt then with the assets and some debt.

In any event. My points have been made. By the way, to a spender, frugal and cheap are the same thing. Nobody thinks they are cheap. Anyone that might even be will always call themselves frugal. What you call yourself doesn't change what you are. What you might call frugal I call saving.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> You must be joking. The OP was quite clear in what she was saying and asking. "Are you called cheap? Does it bother you? What is your response?"


It sounded to me that it did bother the original poster. Why else would she have posted it. As I said before. If all you do is reply to the exact words, you will be missing the important part of all the questions, from most postings. If I read into a post, something that is not there, they can simply ignore my response, as they will do when you simply respond to the words and not what is behind them.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

I found another topic on this thread on the 40th page of the frugality topic. Here is what the poster canabiz said is 3 reactions to being called cheap

Have you run into these kinds of situations before and what did you do ?

1. Ignore said comments and carry on. You live your life after all.

2. Try to explain the differences between being frugal and being cheap to said persons.

3. Pause and take their inputs into consideration. They may actually have a point.

I actually like the suggestion to pause and take their inputs into consideration. For me, i can afford dinner as i've exceeded my savings goals this year. Maybe if i hadn't achieved my goals i would have a different reaction and explain i overspent this year and need to save money.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Years ago a group of us started a hockey team in the local recreation league. We sponsored ourselves and everybody paid in an equal fee spread out over the year.

One guy could never pay the full amount, and often we would pick up part of his share. Everyone figured he was barely getting by and we could each pay a little more.

One day he comes into the room and invites everyone to a party. It is a mortgage burning mortgage. He paid it off in less than 10 years while we were paying his hockey fees.

The room got quiet and I could tell what everyone was thinking. That is probably a good example of "cheap". You will know it when you see it.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

In my family, I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters. It works out that half are savers and half are spenders........and it started in childhood and never changed.

What is odd is that they all married people who were the exact opposite of themselves. The savers married spenders and the spenders married savers.

All have been married for more than 25 years and counting, so it seemed to work out. Maybe they all attained Chi.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

OptsyEagle said:


> I think I know what you are trying to say but you keep emphasizing the debt. It wasn't the debt that would saved you, quite the contrary. It was the assets you bought with the debt that had any ability to save you. You would have been much better off with the assets and no debt then with the assets and some debt.
> .


Actually, if I’d refinanced my home and owned 5-10 rentals with say 500k-1M of debt I would have easily gotten through that time a lot better as I would have had the rental income. As I said before, debt is a tool, nothing to be feared if used correctly. Being debt free with a paid off house wasn’t a good situation since my assets weren’t liquid, didn’t generate income and was something I needed and couldn’t really sell. So I disagree with you on that point having gone through a rare situation. My 19 year old is in mortgage debt, but doesn’t have a student loan. Good debt, bad debt. His mortgage (Rental property) debt pays him money every month to pay for his school. A student loan is an albatross once you graduate.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

latebuyer said:


> thanks for the replies. The current situation is that she asked me for lunch or dinner and then said she knew i would choose lunch because i was cheap. Perhaps that was a little true - i personally find lunch good value and sometimes you can find the same things at lunch as dinner for cheaper. Still it is ongoing she calls me cheap. and i feel it is a form of peer pressure as she goads me to spend more money. As people have said, i should be proud i'm not a debt ridden spender like most of society. Also, i did exceed my savings goals this year. I know 3 single women who have nothing saved for retirement and i certainly don't want to be in that situation. Overall i think i need to learn to be a little less sensitive. Also i need to recognize that being cheap (or frugal as some people said) has helped me reach my goals.


I found that the training I received at work for difficult conversations at work was actually pretty good. Describe the behaviour, what impact it had and ask if that is what was intended.

ie "When you make comments about me being cheap that makes me feel XYZ. Is that what you intended?"

It makes it not about the person, gives them an opportunity to reflect and nip a simmering resentment in the bud. It is good advice.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

latebuyer said:


> thanks for the replies. The current situation is that she asked me for lunch or dinner and then said she knew i would choose lunch because i was cheap. Perhaps that was a little true - i personally find lunch good value and sometimes you can find the same things at lunch as dinner for cheaper. Still it is ongoing she calls me cheap. and i feel it is a form of peer pressure as she goads me to spend more money. As people have said, i should be proud i'm not a debt ridden spender like most of society. Also, i did exceed my savings goals this year. I know 3 single women who have nothing saved for retirement and i certainly don't want to be in that situation. Overall i think i need to learn to be a little less sensitive. Also i need to recognize that being cheap (or frugal as some people said) has helped me reach my goals.


If you want to see if I would consider it cheap [not that a strangers opinion matters one bit, but I am pretty objective), answer some of these question.

1. Could you afford to go out for dinner at the similar place?
2. Is the purpose to hang out out with your friend? 
3. During lunch, are you more restricted with time [like having to go back to work]
4. Does your friend usually have to accommodate you? Or is it more difficult for your friend to get out for lunch? 
5. If the meal was the same price at dinner and at lunch [assuming the same meal), would you still choose lunch?


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Plugging Along said:


> Income has nothing to do with cheap or necessarily what you spend [preference]. on IMO. Your son sounds smart. He doesn’t see value to the drugs, toys, and crap. That’s just a preference (a smart one if you ask me). If you son uses other peoples toys, and takes their drugs, *stuff without paying his share, he would be cheap. He is consuming at the expense of others. A more realistic example, I can tell who is cheap in my office based on when there is free food. I see a couple of people consistory be the first in line , or take EVERYTHING (putting it in containers) for themselves, but yet NEVER contribute. I bring things in all the time, and see who always takes but never bring s anything. That is cheap.
> *
> Buying a iPad on Black Friday, super smart assuming you wanted it anyways. I am doing similar today. I bought some Xmas items last weekend knowing they are on sale today, I will bringing it for a price adjustment [i already asked when I bought]. I wanted the sized and selection but today I get the price. *Cheap would be buying it, using it then returning. I think cheap comes done to impacting others.*


 ...+1 in the context of the original post.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

andrewf said:


> *I found that the training I received at work for difficult conversations at work was actually pretty good. Describe the behaviour, what impact it had and ask if that is what was intended.
> *
> ie "When you make comments about me being cheap that makes me feel XYZ. Is that what you intended?"
> 
> It makes it not about the person, gives them an opportunity to reflect and nip a simmering resentment in the bud. It is good advice.


 ... do you always carry how-to-behave-or-respond-at-work manual with you? to home, with your friends (not from work though) or even with strangers.

I would be interested to hear how you respond if the answer to your question is "Yes, I meant what I said. You're C-H-E-A-P. The AlCheapo, cheap, cheap cheap". (Ie. I don't give a sh1t how you feel, just how I feel about or sees you.)


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> Probably 90% of the threads fog off topic on this board, not sure why you and plugging are suddenly so angry that this one is. The off topic discussion Is often interesting and the conversation has a way of coming back on topic in the end anyway. Live with it.


I realize and accept that threads do go off topic. But in this case, I am being told the topic is NOT the topic! "That is because you are not seeing the question correctly."


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

latebuyer said:


> thanks for the replies. The current situation is that she asked me for lunch or dinner and then said she knew i would choose lunch because i was cheap. Perhaps that was a little true - i personally find lunch good value and sometimes you can find the same things at lunch as dinner for cheaper. Still it is ongoing she calls me cheap. and i feel it is a form of peer pressure as she goads me to spend more money. As people have said, i should be proud i'm not a debt ridden spender like most of society. Also, i did exceed my savings goals this year. I know 3 single women who have nothing saved for retirement and i certainly don't want to be in that situation. Overall i think i need to learn to be a little less sensitive. Also i need to recognize that being cheap (or frugal as some people said) has helped me reach my goals.


Now that you are able to reply, more info can be provided as you are latebuyer. I have to say that her remark that you always opt for lunch vs. dinner does raise some question in my mind as to whether she may indeed have a valid point. You say it is 'ongoing she calls me cheap'. Can you describe any other instances where she has said this? Have you ever actually engaged in a discussion of the subject when she called you cheap or did you just let the remark pass?

Here's something to consider. If two people have more or less the same financial status (income), it is not unreasonable for one to expect the other to spend equally on any MUTUALLY agreed spending. So if one always invites the other out for dinner and the other always only invited the first to lunch in return, there can indeed be a perception of 'cheap'. It isn't about I only give in expectation of getting the same in return, it is about I give based on what I can afford and I know you can afford the same so why don't you return the same? 

It is different if I have more money than the other person. I may be able to afford to invite someone out to dinner and at the same time know they cannot afford to return that invitation. I don't then expect them to do so and would be quite happy if they buy me a hot dog from a street vendor. Then it is the 'thought that counts', not the cost. I would know they are reciprocating as best they can. 

You refer to having met your savings goal for this year and obviously, that is important to you. There is nothing wrong with that at all but when you put it ahead of reciprocating an invitation to dinner, you lay yourself open to being called cheap. Not because you are being frugal and want to save money but because you CAN afford to reciprocate and are not doing so. If you do not want to reciprocate, then do not ACCEPT dinner invitations.

I would say that if indeed this person is a friend rather than just an acquaintance, then you should be having a frank discussion as to how you view money and spending vs. saving. Any actual 'friend' should be able to understand that your goals may differ from hers and that how you spend money on each other has to be MUTUALLY agreeable. If you told me, 'I don't want to spend $200 on buying us dinner but I'm fine with $50 on lunch, so let's agree to buy each other lunch and not dinners', I'd be fine with that. If on the other hand, I invited you to dinner and you ACCEPTED and I spent $200 and you then invited me to lunch and spent $50, well yeah, I could well call you cheap because you ACCEPTED my spending but did not reciprocate when in fact I know you could afford to.

I find that there are lots of people in this world who are willing to take but not give in return. Some may not even realize that they are taking more than giving. But those giving who see this happening and KNOW the other person could afford to reciprocate but just isn't and have NOT been given a reason why this is happening, will feel used. That's one way friendships end.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

sags said:


> Years ago a group of us started a hockey team in the local recreation league. We sponsored ourselves and everybody paid in an equal fee spread out over the year.
> 
> One guy could never pay the full amount, and often we would pick up part of his share. Everyone figured he was barely getting by and we could each pay a little more.
> 
> ...


That is indeed a good example of someone taking without giving in return sags and no doubt that person thought of himself as just being 'frugal' and paying his mortgage. It is a perfect example of what I have just written about there having to be MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING of what is going on. He should not have ACCEPTED others paying his share when in fact he could have afforded to pay it himself, he just put a higher priority on paying down his mortgage. He acted inappropriately but that does not mean he was 'cheap' in fact.

It means he was a 'user', using others for his own benefit. That is a case then of, 'fool me once shame on you, use me twice shame on me'. After finding out what he had done, I would have had no more to do with that person whatsoever.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Longtimeago said:


> I realize and accept that threads do go off topic. But in this case, I am being told the topic is NOT the topic! "That is because you are not seeing the question correctly."


Isn’t that the definition of “off topic”?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

Beaver101 said:


> ... do you always carry how-to-behave-or-respond-at-work manual with you? to home, with your friends (not from work though) or even with strangers.


In all fairness to Andrew, I do teach and coaching on difficult conversations, and it's not that you carry a manual with you, but rather a skill that you learn. When first learning I had the notes with me and on my laptop while coaching. I use similar skills with my spouse and kids and it can be effective. The idea is to take your judgement and 'story' (your interpretation) and get to understand where the other person is coming from. 



> I would be interested to hear how you respond if the answer to your question is "Yes, I meant what I said. You're C-H-E-A-P. The AlCheapo, cheap, cheap cheap". (Ie. I don't give a sh1t how you feel, just how I feel about or sees you.)


When I coach, I don't bring my feelings into it (unless that is what is it truly about, it is irrelevant).

I would respond, 'What you think does matter to me as we are friends. I would like to understand where your are coming from, especially if I am unintendingly impacting you. Could tell me how my Alcheaponess is impacting you?

Depending on the person (like my kids) I use slightly different language.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I didn't see your posts before. 



Just a Guy said:


> Probably 90% of the threads fog off topic on this board, not sure why you and plugging are suddenly so angry that this one is. The off topic discussion Is often interesting and the conversation has a way of coming back on topic in the end anyway. Live with it.


My issue has nothing to do with being off topic, I am guilty of doing that too. It is where you bring in public workers and in this case SAGs just to take a cheap shot. With this: 



Just a Guy said:


> So the poor and people like sags are cheap by your definition as well as all public sector workers?


It was really unnecessary and you can be better than that. I generally agree with many of your views, but it was more I took this as a political dig, when really not necessary. 



> I was responding to the statements made by beaver and optsy before that. It was part of the thread. I don’t agree with what beaver said, I don’t think she does either. I also pointed out a problem with “savers” from optsy’s post.


I reread the previous posts, and it still wasn't neccessary, and I think beaver was taken out of context.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a Guy said:


> Isn’t that the definition of “off topic”?


This is real simple Just a Guy. The topic in the OP is, 'what do you do when you are called cheap'. OptsyEagle however believes that I am wrong in understanding what the question was and says that I, 'didn't see the question correctly.'


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

First of all, in the context of the conversation, she was asking me a preference between lunch and dinner and commenting i'd probably choose lunch because i'm cheap. Once i learned she wanted to go to dinner as she wanted to dress up i agreed to dinner. This is an ongoing problem and for the most part it has nothing to do with our get togethers. For example she says i'm cheap as i don't take expensive vacations every year. I'll explain to her i am concerned about retirement but she doesn't get it. I did say i had got my mortgage down from 30 to 13 years in 5 years yesterday and she said she understood more why i was cheap. I explained i didn't like the term before and she stopped for awhile but she backslid. However, overall i disagree with people on this forum who think its okay to call people cheap. Its a derogatory term and no one should say that to someone's face. There is definitely a discrepancy in our incomes and disposal incomes that she doesn't grasp. Personally i don't get people who are judgemental. As long as it doesn't affect me, i don't care unless i'm concerned about them. In any event, i'll try out some of the suggestions of plugging along and andrewf. However, i'm not convinced she is going to change and will need to learn to brush it off. She,'s just not a tactful person. Thanksfor the replies!


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Longtimeago said:


> This is real simple Just a Guy. The topic in the OP is, 'what do you do when you are called cheap'. OptsyEagle however believes that I am wrong in understanding what the question was and says that I, 'didn't see the question correctly.'


OK. Let's say you didn't see it the way I saw it and leave it at that. 

Let's face it. One person thinks always deferring to lunch is being cheap and the other person thinks doing everything they can do over a less expensive lunch, as opposed to a more expensive dinner, is frugal. So who is right and who is wrong? They are both right and they are both wrong. It all depends on how you look at it and how you look at it will most likely depend on whether you are a spender or a saver.

Not sure what I missed on all of that. Sorry if I insulted anyone.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Sorry i wasn't referring to you in particular. I agree that the term cheapness is subjective. For example, i am personally usually first for a buffet. I think people are scared to go first because they don't want to look bad, others may think they are just being polite but i don't think so. Someone has to have the guts to go first, why not me? In any event, i will reread the thread, lots of good stuff here.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

latebuyer said:


> I explained i didn't like the term before and she stopped for awhile but she backslid. However, overall i disagree with people on this forum who think its okay to call people cheap. Its a derogatory term and no one should say that to someone's face.


I know everyone is different but honestly I'm not sure why this bothers you so much? I've called others cheap, people have called me cheap, it's just a description of a spending situation. Like me telling a friend "I wouldn't cheap out on buying that item, I'd buy something a little better built" usually followed by a reason of why I'd do so. Sometimes I just respond back to being called cheap with a "thanks!" in a positive tone because I'm taking it as a complement.

Maybe it's today overly PC world, saying anything that might be construed as negative shouldn't be done anymore?


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

If you read my post you'll notice i said had to learn to brush it off. I'm quite a sensitive person. Overall people are too judgemental where money is concerned. The reverse is also true- people on this forum judge people drowning in debt. Who cares unless they are a family member or close friend?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

OptsyEagle said:


> OK. Let's say you didn't see it the way I saw it and leave it at that.
> 
> Let's face it. One person thinks always deferring to lunch is being cheap and the other person thinks doing everything they can do over a less expensive lunch, as opposed to a more expensive dinner, is frugal. So who is right and who is wrong? They are both right and they are both wrong. It all depends on how you look at it and how you look at it will most likely depend on whether you are a spender or a saver.
> 
> Not sure what I missed on all of that. Sorry if I insulted anyone.


Just jumping in. I don’t see it as who is right or wrong or black and white, but all about context. My thought is if the people involved care enough about the relationship or what the other person thinks, then they will have a conversation with the other party to see where they are coming from. Often these issues come to something deeper than lunch or dinner.

A weird example of my own s I actually hate going out for breakfast unless I absolutely have to. I think it’s the worst value for money and I make pretty awesome breakfasts. I generally do not like going out for breakfast, and will try to defer to brunch or even better lunch. However, I have a close friend who loves breakfast at an expensive breakfast place. She likes the breakfast, and the time works better where she doesn’t have the kids. Since I value her company so much, I will put aside my distaste for spending for breakfast to see her. However, I did find cheaper places, and ones with coupons. For casual coworkers who just like going to the local breakfast place, who I see more than I care to, no thanks. See, I can even analyze meals. There is usually something deeper


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Plugging Along said:


> I reread the previous posts, and it still wasn't neccessary, and I think beaver was taken out of context.


That is an assumption on your part, I was clarifying. You know what they say about people who assume right? You read it one way, I read it another...


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Insults are 90% in the mind of the listener. If you choose to take offence, any word can be insulting. If you choose not to take offence, no words are insulting.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

My annoyance with the term cheap is it is never a fair exchange. It is almost politically incorrect to call someone a reckless spender. If a women is showing off her new Coach purse she got on sale for $999, everyone has to say how they always wanted one of those. What a bargain. It is so beautiful.

Trust me. That is not what I want to say. I cannot imagine the idiot thinking a person must use, who actually works for their money, spending it at that level for something, where I imagine an alternative could be obtained for considerably less. I see it all the time, but if I mention anything, it would be like saying I think you look fat in that dress. It is somehow, politically incorrect to comment this way, but the spenders get to delve it out all day long.

Did she really think you did not know they serve dinner at that restaurant. How rude to even bring it up, is my opinion, so many posts earlier I explained how I insult them right back, in the opposite way. It usually shuts them up. Now I am sure they call me cheap behind my back, where those comments are meant to be said, if they have to be said at all.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

Beaver101 said:


> ... do you always carry how-to-behave-or-respond-at-work manual with you? to home, with your friends (not from work though) or even with strangers.
> 
> I would be interested to hear how you respond if the answer to your question is "Yes, I meant what I said. You're C-H-E-A-P. The AlCheapo, cheap, cheap cheap". (Ie. I don't give a sh1t how you feel, just how I feel about or sees you.)


That is useful information. If your friend is an *******, maybe they shouldn't be your friend. A lot of people spend a lot of time agonizing over things their 'friends' do to them. Was that a dig? Is she mad about something? Is there a reason I didn't get invited to X?


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

andrewf said:


> That is useful information. If your friend is an *******, maybe they shouldn't be your friend. A lot of people spend a lot of time agonizing over things their 'friends' do to them. Was that a dig? Is she mad about something? Is there a reason I didn't get invited to X?


The problem here is the friend would believe that they are just giving "constructive criticism", which to them, they are, whereas the poster is taking it as "an insult", which to her, it is.

My approach is just to offer the same "constructive criticism" back, highlighting what happens to morons that overspend, hoping they receive it as "an insult", which they should, and decide that life is made up of different strokes for different folks...forget the matter and settle back to enjoy a nice lunch. I am sure it won't work out like that, but it is how I approach the matter, all the same.


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## lonewolf :) (Sep 13, 2016)

Often it is best to not take comfort in the herd regardless of the names you may be called.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I know everyone is different but honestly I'm not sure why this bothers you so much? I've called others cheap, people have called me cheap, it's just a description of a spending situation. Like me telling a friend "I wouldn't cheap out on buying that item, I'd buy something a little better built" usually followed by a reason of why I'd do so. Sometimes I just respond back to being called cheap with a "thanks!" in a positive tone because I'm taking it as a complement.
> 
> Maybe it's today overly PC world, saying anything that might be construed as negative shouldn't be done anymore?


Many years ago cainvest I learned the importance of choosing what words you use in communicating with others. I mean choosing exactly what words you use. As a salesperson, I came to see how using one word vs. another REGARDLESS of whether your intent to communicate was the same or not, did make a difference to the person you were trying to communicate with. It's all about perception, not reality.

So if my reality was that I wanted to communicate to you that a particular item represented good value at a given price compared to other items, I might say to you, 'it's a really cheap price'. Or I might say, 'it's a really low price'. Or I might say, 'at that price it represents really great value for your money.' What each of those sentences will communicate to the person you are speaking too will differ even though all 3 are basically intnended to communicate the same thing, it is a good price.

Most people see the word 'cheap' as a negative. That you don't does not mean anything in terms of other people's perception. So I would advise you to drop the word from your vocabulary as most salespeople learn to do. It's about positive, negative and neutral. Some words are seen as positive almost always, some as neutral and some as negative and 'cheap' is in the negative category. Salespeople learn to stick with positive or if they must, neutral.

It has nothing to do with being pc. It has to do with communicating the right message to someone else and understanding that the message you communicate depends on their perception, not your reality. As for never saying anything that might be construed as negative, that is missing the point. If you WANT to convey a negative then do so but if you want to convey a positive or neutral, do not use a word that is perceived as negative, like 'cheap'. See the difference?


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## Retired Peasant (Apr 22, 2013)

latebuyer said:


> If you read my post you'll notice i said had to learn to brush it off. I'm quite a sensitive person. Overall people are too judgemental where money is concerned. The reverse is also true- people on this forum judge people drowning in debt. Who cares unless they are a family member or close friend?


Backatcha. If this person continually makes these digs, and they aren't a close friend or family member, why do you care? Find a new friend, life's too short.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> Most people see the word 'cheap' as a negative. That you don't does not mean anything in terms of other people's perception. So I would advise you to drop the word from your vocabulary as most salespeople learn to do. It's about positive, negative and neutral. Some words are seen as positive almost always, some as neutral and some as negative and 'cheap' is in the negative category. Salespeople learn to stick with positive or if they must, neutral.
> 
> It has nothing to do with being pc. It has to do with communicating the right message to someone else and understanding that the message you communicate depends on their perception, not your reality. As for never saying anything that might be construed as negative, that is missing the point. If you WANT to convey a negative then do so but if you want to convey a positive or neutral, do not use a word that is perceived as negative, like 'cheap'. See the difference?


I see most regular uses of cheap as positive. It's very common for me to hear (or say) "gas prices are cheap right now" for example. I do use the word to describe people's spending actions, did so with a friend I haven't seen in 5 years last week. He didn't take offense, he knows it and because he is cheap it has allowed him to retire at 43 (some 20+ years ago) and enjoy his life ... again, cheap not a negative here but correctly descriptive.

Yes nothing to do with PC directly BUT it seems people read far too much in word usage these days ...


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Who cares if someone calls you cheap? Life will be miserable if you live it based on your fear of what others will think or what they might refer to you as.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

It's not the word, that matters, but what is meant behind it. 

In this case, her friend was using it to describe a flaw that she saw in her friend. It does not matter that the same word can be used in a dozen different ways for other things. 

Again, if you just take the wording of a question to heart, you will respond with a wrong or useless answer, 9 out of 10 times.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

cainvest said:


> I see most regular uses of cheap as positive. It's very common for me to hear (or say) "gas prices are cheap right now" for example. I do use the word to describe people's spending actions, did so with a friend I haven't seen in 5 years last week. He didn't take offense, he knows it and because he is cheap it has allowed him to retire at 43 (some 20+ years ago) and enjoy his life ... again, cheap not a negative here but correctly descriptive.
> 
> Yes nothing to do with PC directly BUT it seems people read far too much in word usage these days ...


No, your friend was not necessarily 'cheap' cainvest he was far more likely to have been 'frugal'. I retired at 43 also and I am not 'cheap' but I am frugal with many things. Look, frugal could be eating at a fast food place sometimes to save some money but at the same time, you take your wife to a nice restaurant on your anniversary. Cheap is when you take her to the fast food place for your anniversary and fill your pockets with the little ketchup, salt and pepper packets to take home. 

Cheap is a word that can be used in many different ways and mean different things but in the case of this thread, it has a specific meaning to the OP. When someone calls you cheap, what matters is what is perceived to be MEANT by it as OptsyEagle has just written. Not what the person saying it means but what the person hearing it PERCEIVES it to mean. In the case of the OP, she perceives her friend as saying it as a negative. You can't say to the OP, 'no you don't perceive it that way'. 

Saying 'gas is cheap right now' doesn't matter to anyone. Saying, 'you are cheap' is a whole different thing. If you said to me, 'you retired at 43 because you were cheap', I would take great offense to that statement. I did not retire at 43 by being cheap, frugal in some things yes, but I retired at 43 by being smarter than the average bear, earning more, saving more and investing wisely, not by spending less necessarily. In fact I have no doubt that I spend more than many here on many things.


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## cainvest (May 1, 2013)

Longtimeago said:


> No, your friend was not necessarily 'cheap' cainvest he was far more likely to have been 'frugal'.


Nope, he's cheap alright.


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## Topo (Aug 31, 2019)

latebuyer said:


> Are you called cheap? Does it bother you? What is your response?
> 
> I have a friend who calls me cheap and it really annoys me. Frankly, I feel as her parents paid for her entire condo she is out of touch with reality in terms of spending and saving. Perhaps i can be a bit cheap sometimes, but i wouldn't say all the time. Indeed, with the amount i eat out i would say i'm not cheap at all and that is an area to work on. I guess i'm venting here but I am not sure how to respond when people call me cheap.


I generally do not care what others think about me. On every important issue, as a general rule, half the people agree with me and like me, and the other half disagrees and dislikes. Switching the former with the latter does not change anything. It is still a 50/50 proposition. I don't know of any way around that.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

Retired Peasant said:


> Backatcha. If this person continually makes these digs, and they aren't a close friend or family member, why do you care? *Find a new friend, life's too short.*


 ... yep or better yet, tell her to pay for the dinner if she's so generous. I bet she would change her mind in a snap and settle for lunch.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

andrewf said:


> That is useful information. If your friend is an *******, maybe they shouldn't be your friend. A lot of people spend a lot of time agonizing over things their 'friends' do to them. *Was that a dig? Is she mad about something? Is there a reason I didn't get invited to X?*


 ...sorry, no time to analyze comments from an empty-head (the so-called "friend").


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## Prairie Guy (Oct 30, 2018)

Frugal and cheap have different meanings. I'm frugal...value for the dollar is the goal and I have no problem paying a premium for a premium product and I won't but something cheaply made just to save money.

We rarely go to expensive restaurants because we are both good cooks and see no value. But we will meet friends at pricey restaurants on occasion if that's where everyone wants to go. The value of night out with friends outweighs an expensive meal, we just order less expensive items and limit ourselves to 1 drink.

We travel using seat sales but will pay extra for a direct flight because we value our time and convenience over a couple hundred $$.


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## marina628 (Dec 14, 2010)

I don't do cheap or frugal but in past I had to watch my pennies because of bad luck and bad health issues.I am truly blessed right now to have a good income and savings and I rather give than receive so usually the one footing the bill for meals etc because among my family and friends I am in the best financial situation.My son got a jacket for $3.00 last week at value village and I have not seen him smile so much in ages so I think we have done a great job grounding our kids ,the last time i made under $20,000 a month net was in July 2007 .We hide our wealth from the kids although my 16 year old does know about her RESP and teach them about charity and giving to others.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Just read this thread again as my friend called me cheap again and what stood out for me was the comment to consider whether my thrifty behaviour is impacting other people as well as to consider whether my spending is negatively impacting my happiness. Just learned my friend is able to go on her expensive vacations on aeroplan points as she has some sort of 7000 charge per year to rent a rink and get money back from her hockey team so i am even more irritated. Since i'm not good at thinking on my feet to change the conversation, i am basically reframing cheap to thinking of it as living within my means, meeting my savings goals and spending mindfully focusing on what makes me happy.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

Realistically it all comes down to your own insecurities. It only bothers you because you let it.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

I don't think its insecurities at all. I think it's pretty ridiculous to call someone cheap because they don't take a lot of expensive vacations while at the same having some sketchy business to get extra money so you are not even paying for all of your own vacation. I just need to remind myself this is another reason she's out of touch with reality. I enjoyed my dinner otherwise.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

It’s bothering you, if you’re secure with yourself and your lifestyle, it won’t matter what others think. Just my opinion of course, I used to be insecure. Gave it up, wasn’t worth trying to please others.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

latebuyer said:


> I don't think its insecurities at all. I think it's pretty ridiculous to call someone cheap because they don't take a lot of expensive vacations *while at the same having some sketchy business to get extra money so you are not even paying for all of your own vacation*. I just need to remind myself this is another reason she's out of touch with reality. I enjoyed my dinner otherwise.


 ... ah, so that's how she does it.... I would be just as generous as her as long as it's OPM.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

latebuyer said:


> Just read this thread again as my friend called me cheap again and what stood out for me was the comment to consider whether my thrifty behaviour is impacting other people as well as to consider whether my spending is negatively impacting my happiness. Just learned my friend is able to go on her expensive vacations on aeroplan points as she has some sort of 7000 charge per year to rent a rink and get money back from her hockey team so i am even more irritated. Since i'm not good at thinking on my feet to change the conversation, i am basically reframing cheap to thinking of it as living within my means, meeting my savings goals and spending mindfully focusing on what makes me happy.


I just read this latest comment by you and what I read is, 'my SUPPOSED friend called me cheap again.' I would suggest that this person is NOT your friend, only an 'acqauintance' and one not even worth having even that kind of a relationship with. 

Someone who repeatedly INSULTS you and make no mistake, that is what she is doing, has a problem of her own probably. Guilt perhaps in regards to how she gets personal aeroplan points from her use of her hockey teams money. She seems more intent on justifying her own spending than anything else.

A FRIEND will perhaps try to tell you something to HELP you but does not have to INSULT you to do so. IF I had a friend who I thought was being 'cheap' to the point of hurting themselves in any way, such as impacting their happiness, then I would want to encourage them to perhaps 'live a little'. But at no point would I resort to calling them cheap, that's just insulting.

I think you need to dump this person and get on with your life without her. She certainly doesn't sound like a person I would want to have even a minor relationship with. Why don't you try asking yourself if she really is a friend at all.


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## Just a Guy (Mar 27, 2012)

She’s probably insecure herself. Many people think the only way to build themselves up is to make sure they are higher than the person next to them. Thus, they concentrate on tearing them down.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

As I don't have a lot of friends, I don't really want to lose her as a friend so I am trying to learn how to live with her cheap comments. To be honest, i'm not very happy with what i spend on vacation yet between mortgage prepayments and retirement saving i don't have a lot for vacations. I may ease up on the prepayments somewhat as i don't want to cut into my retirement saving. Also if I were honest i could cut eating out somewhat. I think its helped to understand her better and forced me to think about my own spending/saving tradeoffs when considering her cheap comments.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

From my POV, your so-called "friend" is nothing but an egoistic, integrity-less bully.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

Friends spend time together latebuyer, that's one of the criteria for defining a friend vs. an acquaintance for example. That then also means that since the amount of time you have available to spend with anyone outside of work, sleeping and just doing all the things we all have to do in our everyday lives, is limited. That then means that the actual number of actual friends that any individual can have at any given point in time, is limited. Think about it.

If you are spending your valuable free time with a supposed friend but person is causing you to come here and post about being called cheap, is that the best person to be spending your limited time with? You may well have someone who is currently just an 'acquaintance' in your social circle who just might make a much better friend. But if you have no time to pursue that possibility, you'll never find out.

In a way you have to look at it selfishly as a question of where best to spend your time. Trying to 'not lose' a supposed friend or trying to find a true friend to spend your time with. It's about quality not quantity latebuyer and you are far better off with say 2 real friends that 5 supposed friends. In any case, 5 is actually about the largest number of truly close friends any individual can handle in their life at any one time and that includes family members with whom you are also close friends, not just related by family so to speak. https://www.businessinsider.com/friends-limited-number-of-close-relationships-2018-3

Whenever I hear someone say, 'I don't have a lot of friends' (which is perhaps more common than you realize, you are not alone in saying that), my question is always, 'how many do you think you are supposed to have?'


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

^ I seriously agree with this part:


> *It's about quality not quantity *latebuyer and you are far better off with say 2 real friends that 5 supposed friends. ...


 .. and by "quality", this means "respect" or "have an understanding or get it by being in that person's shoes".



As for your question, the not-so-serious answer (ie. not answering for latebuyer):


> Whenever I hear someone say, 'I don't have a lot of friends' (which is perhaps more common than you realize, you are not alone in saying that), my question is always, 'how many do you think you are supposed to have?'


 ... my answer is "thousands" like everyone who says they are your "friends" as those on FB. Come on, we're going to year 2020 and what do you expect people to answer with, "I only got 1 "real=true=sincere=geniune" friend?


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## Pluto (Sep 12, 2013)

I had someone call me cheap but I didn't care. I was thrifty. Calling me cheap was a manipulation to get me to do foolish things with my money, and I didn't bite. That individual ended up going bankrupt and demanded money for food from people.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Beaver101 said:


> ^ I seriously agree with this part:
> .. and by "quality", this means "respect" or "have an understanding or get it by being in that person's shoes".
> 
> 
> ...


I see what you are saying but as she is actually on my work team, I can't sever the relationship. To be honest, I find most of my friends irritate me in one way or another. I don't know if its just me because i'm introverted and live alone or other people find that as well. In any event, when she called me cheap at lunch it didn't even bother me so I think this whole discussion has helped me. I just need to figure out the optimum balance between eating out, vacations and mortgage prepayments.


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## Beaver101 (Nov 14, 2011)

latebuyer said:


> I see what you are saying but as she is actually on my work team, I can't sever the relationship.


 ... ah, I see. A "friend" from "work" ... the worst type ... I guess you have no choice but to suck up to this "kind of friendship" in the meantime. 



> To be honest, I find most of my friends irritate me in one way or another. I don't know if its just me because i'm introverted and live alone or other people find that as well.


 ... nope, it's not just you .. we all have "friends" who irritates us but there're different degrees of "irritation". For someone who calls other people cheap so that they can show off is just a "bully". And unfortunately, introverts are easy targets for these meanies. I bet if you ever stand up to her/them, next thing you know they'll label you as "sensitive" and get you to think something is wrong with you. Believe me, NOTHING is wrong with you ... it's them.



> In any event, when she called me cheap at lunch it didn't even bother me so I think this whole discussion has helped me. I just need to figure out the optimum balance between eating out, vacations and mortgage prepayments.


 ... that's one way of dealing with it. Ignore her. But be forewarned that if she keeps giving out these cheap shots, sooner or later, you'll find yourself back at this spot.


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## Longtimeago (Aug 8, 2018)

latebuyer said:


> I see what you are saying but as she is actually on my work team, I can't sever the relationship. To be honest, I find most of my friends irritate me in one way or another. I don't know if its just me because i'm introverted and live alone or other people find that as well. In any event, when she called me cheap at lunch it didn't even bother me so I think this whole discussion has helped me. I just need to figure out the optimum balance between eating out, vacations and mortgage prepayments.


A work colleague can be a friend as well but most in fact are not. Ask Sally Jessica Parker who thought her work colleague Kim Cattrail was her friend. Kim was under no such illusion, she said quite clearly when asked, 'we worked together as professionals, we were never friends.' A lot of people make the mistake of confusing colleagues with friends.

I have worked with hundreds of people and many of them I would have lunch or dinner with and enjoy our time together. But when I moved on or they moved on to another company, that was the last I ever saw of them. I think you will find most people will tell you that is what happens. Out of sight, out of mind. Some may keep in touch for a short time but usually that just fades away as well. Ask yourself how long you think your 'friend' would continue to call and invite you to lunch/dinner if you no longer worked together.

https://www.thejuliagroup.com/blog/hard-lessons-1-dont-mistake-colleagues-for-friends/

Regarding a balance of eating out, vacations and mortgage repayments, that is not enough. Have a look at the 50/30/20 approach to managing your money. The mortgage would come under the 50%, eating out and vacations under the 30% and savings beyond that are the 20%.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/022916/what-502030-budget-rule.asp

Using that rule makes figuring out how much to budget for eating out or vacations, quite easy to do.


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## OptsyEagle (Nov 29, 2009)

Pluto said:


> I had someone call me cheap but I didn't care. I was thrifty. Calling me cheap was a manipulation to get me to do foolish things with my money, and I didn't bite. That individual ended up going bankrupt and demanded money for food from people.


You nailed it. That is all that is.


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## latebuyer (Nov 15, 2015)

Longtimeago said:


> A work colleague can be a friend as well but most in fact are not. Ask Sally Jessica Parker who thought her work colleague Kim Cattrail was her friend. Kim was under no such illusion, she said quite clearly when asked, 'we worked together as professionals, we were never friends.' A lot of people make the mistake of confusing colleagues with friends.
> 
> I have worked with hundreds of people and many of them I would have lunch or dinner with and enjoy our time together. But when I moved on or they moved on to another company, that was the last I ever saw of them. I think you will find most people will tell you that is what happens. Out of sight, out of mind. Some may keep in touch for a short time but usually that just fades away as well. Ask yourself how long you think your 'friend' would continue to call and invite you to lunch/dinner if you no longer worked together.
> 
> ...


I do have one friend that started at work and we've been friends for 20 years so I know its possible. Regarding the budget rule, thanks, i've heard of it but it never occurred to me to apply the prepayments to the 50% portion. My sense is that the prepayments I make will have to be small, but i'll figure it out.


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## Earl (Apr 5, 2016)

I get called cheap but I don't mind. To me it's a badge of honour.

Cheap pride!


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## Brian K (Jan 29, 2011)

When some one calls me cheap - or frugal, etc, I reply "I'm cheap because I want to be; not because I have to be". A big difference in the two. You want peace of mind? That's peace of mind! 
The problem is our tax and spend gov't's consider us 'lucky' that we haven't spent ourselves poor and don't have to use the social system - but that is a whole other rant!


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## Zipper (Nov 18, 2015)

Just replace the furnace. There is being cheap and then there is being stupid.


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