# What was your XIRR for 2015?



## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

There's a handy guide to using OpenOffice to calculate XIRR (internal rate of return) from Goldstone in this thread..
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...ion-to-OpenOffice-users-how-to-calculate-XIRR
If you have Excel, the syntax works the same apparently, except you use a comma instead of a semi-colon.
____

My 2015 XIRR was 3.05%

Target ratios for equity were 3 Japan / 5 emerging mkts / 8 Europe / 11 US / 23 CDN.
Mostly index with some individual UK adrs and some CDN-based multinationals and some reits.
Was 30%+ cash all year and closed the year 31% cash.

The three biggest drags on my returns this year were 
BBL down 62.3% (USD) in 15 months not including dividends
TPH down 78.6% in 15 months not including dividends
VWO down 22.4% (USD) this year not including dividends
POT also down 17.3% currently

Did ok with US index funds, Japan Index, and CNR this year.

since I started tracking XIRR,
2012 11.62%
2013 20.41%
2014 11.17%
2015 3.05%

1YR XIRR 3.05%
2YR XIRR 7.03%
3YR XIRR 11.3%
4YR XIRR 11.4%
____

How did you do this year?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't calculate XIRR, just annual return adjusted for new money contributions. Mine returns:
2012 9.2
2013 15.34
2014 12.85
2015 4.56

Range of returns for 2015 : -3% - +6%


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Bogleheads has a really cool spreadsheet that calculates money-weighted (MWRR) and time-weighted (TWRR) rate of return, available in Excel, Google Docs and LibreOffice. The linked page also has a good explanation of different ways to calculate returns.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns

I also use the "Goldstone Method" referred to in the first post, but the Bogleheads spreadsheet provides a simple table of annual and compound returns, and a growth of $10,000 chart.

Note that XIRR returns a money-weighted return. If you had large cash flows during the year it is not the best tool for comparing the results of different investing strategies among investors. For example 2015 had positive returns up to the end of July, then softened to the end of the year. For an investor that added a large sum relative to the total portfolio value in Q3, their MWRR (XIRR) would be significantly lower than their TWRR.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

All my equity investments are in registered accounts, so my contributions mostly in 1st 60 days and they are relatively small comparing to total portfolio, I did XIRR calcs for 2012, and my regular return was 7.38% and XIRR 7.63%, the difference is very small, so I stop wasting time doing XIRR calculations


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

^I added 5K in 2012, 5.5K in 2013, net zero in 2014 (bought a car), 2K in 2015, so for me XIRR wasn't all that different from the way you did it (total return minus contributions).


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## leeder (Jan 28, 2012)

@mrPPincer: Did you convert your US investments to CAD or leave it at USD?


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

leeder, for the XIRR calcs I used Total Portfolio in C$ (including cash) on dec 31.

added, for me house & car didn't go into the calculations, both are owned fully, but they don't add up to anything significant.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

-2.9% across all accounts (based on excel xirr considering contribution, w/d, and transfer timing) 
+3.6% on tax-sheltered accounts (nearly 100% fixed income strips) 34% of all accs value
-5.9% on non-registered account (49% Cdn Eq, 15% Prefs, 7% Reits, 19% fi, 10% cash) 66% of all accs value

Loss in non-reg acc was due to purchase of prefs in early 2015 to build retirement income stream. 
Prefs in the account lost 14% (compared to a TXPL index loss of -22.9% in 2015). Worst case they will offset Cdn equity capital gains in ~10 yrs. Also not too concerned about Cdn equity over the long term. Stocks like RY which lost 7.7% in 2015, and T which was down 9.5% should eventually regain value. We don't own any oils.

In the meantime, dividends from our non-reg account now provide more than sufficient annual income for all of our retirement expenses without touching the capital. Our 2015 income stream is up 15% from 2014.


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## Ag Driver (Dec 13, 2012)

Deleted.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

CDN stocks down about 7% this year. US holdings down about 5% mostly due to U.S. oil. No worries. My investing timeline is 40+ years. Low prices are an opportunity to buy more. Whether that is CDN or U.S. O&G stocks, XIU, CDN banks or CDN REITs.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Ag Driver said:


> Is TDDI's Performance section the same as XIRR? (ie. If I selected the date range for 2015, and read the ROR, is this XIRR?


In TDDI's Performance Reporting screen, under account summary, to the right of the date there is a help ? icon. It will open a separate window with an explanation of the performance reporting calculations.



> Performance Methodology
> 
> The rate of return is the percentage change in the total value of an account (including accrued interest and dividends) over period of time after eliminating (or reducing) the effect of external cash flows. The rate of return, therefore, only measures investment-related sources; namely, capital gains (or losses) and income.
> 
> The method used to calculate this performance is called the daily time-weighted rate of return


It is TWRR, not MWRR (XIRR).


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## leeder (Jan 28, 2012)

I only started tracking my XIRR in 2014.

XIRR
2014: 10.10%
2015: 7.00%

All US and international investments are converted to CAD at the December 31 closing rate based on xe.com. Currently, 56.8% of my portfolio is invested in foreign equities (US, EAFE and emerging index ETFs). My Canadian equities dragged down the performance of the portfolio. In 2015, I bought more Canadian equities as I thought a few companies were unfairly punished. Currently, I'm a bit overweight in Cdn equities. My main objective in 2016 is to add more international exposure (EAFE and emerging indices), so that I rebalance back to my ideal weight.


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## OnlyMyOpinion (Sep 1, 2013)

Per Ag Driver and GreatLaker,
I just compared the performance that TDDI reports with that I calculated using excel and the xirr function:
The only account that has exactly the same value is an account that had no activity in it throughout the year (i.e. it has only a YE2014 and a YE2015 value). 
The other six accounts which had contribution or withdrawl activity through the year showed higher returns in TDDI than excel xirr calculates.
TDDI reported account returns that were an average of 0.40% higher (ranging from 0.05% to 1.16% higher) depending on the timing and amount of the contribution/withdrawl.
Fun stuff if you like playing with numbers, but moot if you *stick to the plan*


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

gibor said:


> I don't calculate XIRR,


I don't ether. Why bother working out XIRR - It's just another number. Deduct ending balance from starting balance and adjust for money added or withdrawn and you know how much you made or lost in a year. 

On the other hand, you could work out XIRR to 5 decimal places, if you enjoy doing that


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> US holdings down about 5% mostly due to U.S. oil.


 is US$ or CAD$?



> On the other hand, you could work out XIRR to 5 decimal places, if you enjoy doing that


 my regular return is calculated by Excel, so I can have even 10 decimal places


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## Causalien (Apr 4, 2009)

5.36% in USD. 
Bad year.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

agent99 said:


> I don't ether. Why bother working out XIRR - It's just another number. Deduct ending balance from starting balance and adjust for money added or withdrawn and you know how much you made or lost in a year.


99% of work is tracking your contributions and withdrawals. You have to do it too. So you are really not saving any effort.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

I track my returns for 2 reasons:

To compare my results against market benchmarks. This validates that my investment strategy is working and I am not making mistakes that leave me with sub-market returns. For this I use TWRR, as it eliminates the impact of my deposits and withdrawals. 
To compare my return against my own financial plan, which is based on x% annual return. If my return drops below my plan for an extended period of time I either need to improve my investing, or reduce the expected return in my plan. For this I use MWRR/IRR.




> On the other hand, you could work out XIRR to 5 decimal places, if you enjoy doing that




> my regular return is calculated by Excel, so I can have even 10 decimal places


Anyone that enjoys working out numbers to 5 or 10 decimal places should check out Norm Rothery's Stingy Investor Asset Mixer:
http://www.ndir.com/cgi-bin/downside_adv.cgi


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## Sm5 (Nov 2, 2014)

Only tracked for 2014 and 2015.

XIRR is 10.36% for 2015. 2 year XIRR is 12.20%. Both in CAD.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

6.7% for an index portfolio (in CDN). The raise of USD helped a lot.

Canadian Equity	27%
US Equity	30%
Europe	12%
Pacific	8%
Emerging	5%
Fixed Income	10%
REIT	9%


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## Spidey (May 11, 2009)

4.5%. 65% Equity/35% FI. Hurt by the Canadian dividend payers in my portfolio but helped by my US and foreign equities. Could have been better without a couple of unfortunate moves involving resource stocks. Could have been worse too, so I'll take it for this year.


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

2015 XIRR: 6.19%.
My XIRR going back to when I began my portfolio (37 months ago) in December 2012 is 10.18%.


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## Franky Jr (Oct 5, 2009)

XIRR 0.8

Had a person had the easiest portfolio ever ie) 25%VAB 25%VCN 50%VXC = 7.2%
My kids RESP's are 25% each in TD e series with cad bond cad/us/international. They returned above 8%. 
-thus I will continue to add more index funds this year.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

+3.87% xirr
5% bond
48% cad
20% us
27% int

resp +10.74


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Lots of positive returns here. Makes me wonder...

If you're an indexer, there is little way you could have accomplished that in 2015. Do tell? TSX was down 11%. Dow was down for the year as well.


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

My Own Advisor said:


> Lots of positive returns here. Makes me wonder...
> 
> If you're an indexer, there is little way you could have accomplished that in 2015. Do tell? TSX was down 11%. Dow was down for the year as well.


I was up 6.35% with a simple index portfolio. XIC was down 11% but XEF had a great year and US holding VTI had paper currency return as USD strengthened against our dollar. I had also dumped REITS and emerging markets early in 2015 selling XRE, VWO and DEM (which went on to have a terrible year -25%). Lucky timing and was done only to simplify down to 4 ETFs and lose the 3 I had as 10% each of my portfolio.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> If you're an indexer, there is little way you could have accomplished that in 2015. Do tell? TSX was down 11%. Dow was down for the year as well.


 In CAD$ DOW and S&P500 were up about 20%, so depends in what currency you calculate...
My CIBC IE US equities display market value directly in CAD$


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Ihatetaxes said:


> I was up 6.35% with a simple index portfolio. XIC was down 11% but XEF had a great year and US holding VTI had paper currency return as USD strengthened against our dollar. I had also dumped REITS and emerging markets early in 2015 selling XRE, VWO and DEM (which went on to have a terrible year -25%). Lucky timing and was done only to simplify down to 4 ETFs and lose the 3 I had as 10% each of my portfolio.


That makes sense, if you are holding CDN-only equivalents of USD investments. VTI was basically flat for the year. 

As a buy and hold investor I was definitely down. Oh well!!


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> VTI was basically flat for the year.


Not if you value your portfolio in canadian dollars


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Our daughter's RESP was 8.03% XIRR in a TD e-series couch potato. That's assuming the grant money as contributions.

My work RRSP was 10.6%.

TFSA was -17%.

All in CAD$ returns.


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## GoldStone (Mar 6, 2011)

My Own Advisor said:


> That makes sense, if you are holding CDN-only equivalents of USD investments. VTI was basically flat for the year.


This implies that you value USD and CAD at par.

Following this logic, you must be willing to sell USD at par. Where and when can we meet to complete the deal? I will buy as much as you are willing to sell. each:


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Lol. Not happening here


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

Not all of it...a good portion of mine in USA.


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## Dibs (May 26, 2011)

I'm planning on updating my money diary with more details, but in the meantime my 2015 XIRR was 0.14% vs 3.51% for my benchmark (a basket of TD e-series index funds).


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## RBull (Jan 20, 2013)

My Own Advisor said:


> Lots of positive returns here. Makes me wonder...
> 
> If you're an indexer, there is little way you could have accomplished that in 2015. Do tell? TSX was down 11%. Dow was down for the year as well.


Let me know if you want more details.


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## protomok (Jul 9, 2012)

2015 XIRR for us was -4.8%, asset allocation is around 60% equities / 40% FI.

Equity allocation is mostly an equal split in TSX/S&P500/MSCI EAFE index funds which did great this year due to the drop in the Canadian dollar. But I also had a few individual stocks leftover from my previous dividend strategy which are almost all in energy & pipelines...these guys were absolutely destroyed in 2015!


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

The return this year is something like -26% ROE, so net worth is back to circa 2012 levels.

It actually isn't a terribly unreasonable number. Each of 4 factors make up about one quarter of the loss: general market conditions, leverage, heavy buying of unloved companies, and low diversification.

Some seeds were planted this year. We will see how it turns out years down the road.

The next time someone says they never hear about the bad stuff of investing, only the bragging about the 3 baggers, think of me.

Maybe next year I will have a 3 bagger to report. More likely, I'll be reporting that LRE went bankrupt LOL.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

For benchmarking a portfolio and comparison to indexes, TWRR may be the better way to calculate your return. So I think the way the brokerages show it may be very useful ... they added this due to new regulations I think.

XIRR is very sensitive to the timing of the cashflows. This has bothered me for some time and intuitively, I think TWRR is the better method for what we're all trying to accomplish.

Good points in this link



> Now, to digress a bit, there are several ways to measure returns. I feel XIRR is good for individual positions, like holding a stock, maybe buying more via DRIP, etc.
> 
> For the whole portfolio it stinks. XIRR is greatly affected by timing of cash flows. Steady deposits and no withdrawals dramatically skew the return lower. And the opposite is true for steady withdrawals.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately time-weighted is harder to calculate because you need the portfolio value at the time of every cashflow. So I think it's great the brokerages now calculate this for us... it's a very useful measure, that we can't easily calculate on our own!


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

james4beach said:


> For benchmarking a portfolio and comparison to indexes, TWRR may be the better way to calculate your return. So I think the way the brokerages show it may be very useful ... they added this due to new regulations I think.
> 
> XIRR is very sensitive to the timing of the cashflows. This has bothered me for some time and intuitively, I think TWRR is the better method for what we're all trying to accomplish.
> 
> ...


+1 James. (Although an investor with a good sense of market timing could use MWRR as a way to measure their success getting in and out of the market.)

In case anyone missed it, upthread I posted a link to a neat rate of return spreadsheet that gives both MW and TW returns.
http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showt...-XIRR-for-2015?p=954082&viewfull=1#post954082
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns

Also note that the calculations brokers and investment dealers will be required to supply under CRM2 will be MWRR.
Here is IFIC's sample report for performance reporting: https://www.ific.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Model-Report-on-Investment-Performance.pdf/10331/
And for charges and compensation: https://www.ific.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Model-Report-on-Charges-and-Compensation.pdf/10338/

It's gonna be fun for mutual fund sale reps when their clients start to get reports saying
"Total amount we received to service your account: $x,xxxx"


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

GreatLaker said:


> Also note that the calculations brokers and investment dealers will be required to supply under CRM2 will be MWRR.


Interesting, so brokerages are doing MWRR (money weighted) as opposed to TWRR or XIRR.

Now I'm confused. How does MWRR compare to XIRR?

Looks like we have three measures here! For the way I manage my portfolios I still think TWRR will be most useful for me, because my money flows are not market timing attempts but largely arbitrary: employment income availability


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

james4beach said:


> Now I'm confused. How does MWRR compare to XIRR?


XIRR = MWRR (XIRR is an excel formula that can be used to calculate MWRR)

They way I look at it:

MWRR considers my deposits and withdrawals in its calculations. It is what *I* actually got over the period. I use it to compare to my long term financial / retirement plan. If my MWRR is lower than my target return for prolonged period then I risk running out of money.
TWRR filters out the effect of deposits and withdrawals, thus it is suitable for comparing to a benchmark such as TSX, S&P500, or a composite benchmark like Canadian Couch Potato portfolios, or to other investors.
If you do not add or withdraw any funds over the year then MWRR=TWRR

For example, last year I received a large lump sum in August, and invested it that month. My MWRR is lower than my TWRR because the market tanked after I invested the funds. If the market went up after August, my MWRR would be higher than TWRR.

TWRR is like "if I had all my funds invested for the entire year, here's the return my investing strategy and asset allocation would have given me". 

There are some good posts on canadiancouchpotato.com and canadianportfoliomanagerblog.com.


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## Jets99 (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks to GreatLaker for the excellent explanation of XIRR vs TWRR vs MWRR.

I have an investment advisor managing 50% of my portfolio. I do it myself on the other 50%. 
Asset allocation is same for both with 65% equities mostly individual stocks & 35% fixed. 

Jets99 TWRR = 1.8%
Advisor TWRR = -1.7% (net of his 1.25% fee)

Overall 2015 TWRR= .1%

Overall 2015 MWRR = 7.2% (manual calculation) = XIRR


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## hboy43 (May 10, 2009)

Hi:

This whole thread has me thinking of the classic physics experiment done either in last year high school, or first year university, or likely both. The purpose of the experiment was to get an estimate of g the gravitational constant.

It went something like this: You had a little car, not unlike a miniature scout soapbox car. The car was on a table. Attached to the front of the car was a string which was lead over a pulley at the edge of the table. On the far end of the string hanging down from the end of the line was a weight, perhaps lead back in the day, almost certainly not any more LOL. Trailing from the back of the car was a thin paper strip perhaps a metre long. This paper ran under a pencil mounted to a buzzer device such that there would be a sequence of dots on the trailing paper spaced at a known time interval as the weight fell and the whole assembly accelerated. The whole assembly was weighed (yes this is circular) to get a mass to use in the calculations.

Each student would run the experiment maybe 3 or 4 times and average the result and calculate a confidence interval.

One student perhaps reported a result like 9.615 +- 0.642, another perhaps 9.5 +- 0.7. The actual constant to 3 digits is 9.81 m/s/s.

I hope everyone here understands which student showed competency and which was likely spending more time partying instead of paying attention in class.

Everyone knows this whole thread is nonsense right? I debated if I would participate this year, but decided I had to because I was in a few years back when I had terrific positive numbers. I did not want to be exposed to the valid criticism of shouting from the rooftop when things go well and hiding in a corner when they don't. I have always been extremely forthright with my investing history. Having said that, I hope to remember to not participate ever again, as I feel with likely reporting the worst return this year (and last year too likely), will be immune from the criticism of only playing in the good years.

As far as I know I am the only one who has ever even attempted to calculate and publish here a long term average return that spans decades as I did about 2 years ago. I even invited another member to provide the same calculation for his long term results, said member being quite critical of stocks being a good investment class. As far as I recall, the call was unanswered.

We all say stocks are for the long term, some quite vociferously, yet here we find ourselves in a financial who has the longest dick contest. Many here are trying to "see a bottom" so they can make sure in the short term they don't find themselves with a loss. I say if you need to see a bottom before investing, your time would be better spent down at the local strip club.

So if others have long term results, I invite you to publish them here (or maybe a new thread). There is bound to be numerous folks who can school all of us. There are bound to be numerous folks whose example can serve as a warning. Both categories of people, if they show up, have far more to teach us than armchair investors who can tell us all they ways we are being foolish, can predict the future, and are getting rich "making a quick buck", and can calculate their one year return to 3 or 4 significant figures, but can't lay out their personal long term investing results.

Finally, please I hope that nobody takes this in any way as a personal attack if you happen to be one of the many who have published your 1 year results to 3 or 4 significant places. The error is minor if you do all sorts of other investing things well. Frankly I don't have enough presence here any more to form an opinion on who I might consider sensible vs who I ought to shun.

hboy43


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## 1980z28 (Mar 4, 2010)

Just gone over total loss for the year -- 1.32 % down for a total loss in the market is 9008.39 CAD for 2015

2016 is a great time to buy for the last couple of day`s ,so I have been on a buying path not selling


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

For 2015, XIRR in CAD$ for several accounts are:

a) Canadian stock account: -15.7%
b) US stock account: +13.86%
c) RRSP: +3.06%
d) Fixed income account: +1.62%


Notes
a) High risk TSX portfolio targeting smaller caps. It's this portfolio.
b) This was Berkshire Hathaway plus some options. I would have done better in USD cash.
c) Bonds, GICs and some precious metals.
d) Short term bonds. I'm not sure why this did poorly, but I should investigate.


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## JosephK (Nov 7, 2012)

Total return was -3.0% vs. a personal benchmark of -0.5%

Disastrous performance of TCK.B and BBD.B was responsible for this poor performance, without those two I'd have been slightly up for the year. Maybe I need to stay away from these dual share class entities in the future.


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## PharmD (Dec 21, 2011)

The good thing about this thread is that it is a reminder that this year was not as bad as it seemed. My 70/30 (Equity/Bonds) portfolio was up 4.3% and my self directed account was up 12.1%, but I am the first to admit that was a lot of luck as I only had two months of the year where my returns were positive. The year felt a lot more "violently flat" than it really was. If anything a review of the year calms the nerves.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

^ that fact is interesting. Notice how upset people are about returns in 2015.

Then look at how mildly stocks actually declined.

That shows me how wildly over-optimstic people are. Even a slightly poor performance freaks them out. For me this is proof that too many people are too long, and are unprepared for the possibility of a bear market.


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## Woz (Sep 5, 2013)

CanadianCouchPotato posted the various portfolio returns for 2015:

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2016/01/11/couch-potato-portfolio-returns-for-2015/

Overall returns ranged from 4.97% for the conservative Vanguard ETF approach to 9.65% for the aggressive TD e-series approach. I think the depreciating CAD helped a lot (I know it did for me).


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

TSX return was lowest of the major market indices last year:
http://www.ndir.com/cgi-bin/PeriodicTableofAnnualReturns.cgi

And it has only been in the top three 3 times in the last 10 years. Ouch! We need a new commodity supercycle!
For all its recent strength, the S&P500 has also been in the top three only 3 times in 10 years, whereas gold has been there 5 times.
Emerging markets were in the top three 5 times, and were the top performer in 4 of the last 10 years.

OK, so what we really need is to stay in the market, diversified by geography, asset class and time, and stop chasing performance and market timing.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

*2015*

Total return: -16%
XIRR: -24%
Investment loss: $16,900


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Finally calculated XIRRs 

*2015* 5.64%
*2016* so far 17%

Last 5 years:
The lowest XIRR is on TFSA 4.03% (only Canadian stocks, mostly REIT, Utilities and .... oil)
The highest XIRR is on RRSP 15.27% (mix of US/Canada large caps and HYG)
-----------------------------------------
Average 5 years XIRR YTD 10.8%


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

^not bad so far this year!

Just checked mine and I'm up only about 4.5% so far for 2016, which with last year's measly 3%, would bring my 5-year XIRR down to 9.95%, still nothing to complain about, I'm happy to be back in the positive for this year.


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

This is a good exercise, thanks for raising it.

*~ RRSP ~*

2015 XIRR: 3.0%

Relevant benchmark is (gold 8% MNT, short term bonds 92% XSB) which had total return of 2.6%, so my account is doing well vs benchmark.

*~ Non-reg fixed income ~*

2015 XIRR: 2.65%

Relevant benchmark is XSB with total return 2.33%, so my account is doing well vs benchmark.


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## My Own Advisor (Sep 24, 2012)

I know this thread is about 2015, but I prefer longer time frames since one year is useless when you're investing for decades.

Since I started my DIY approach, almost 6 years now, about 7%.

Before that, well, whatever the returns the big bank funds provided!!


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm having trouble tracking these. My RRSP is easy enough because I record all cashflows in & out. TFSA would be similarly easy.

But the rest of my investments are spread across different non-reg TDDI sub accounts and I find I'm unable to track these. For example I hold some stocks in the Cdn & US margin accounts, but I'm also using this TDDI account almost like a bank account ... large amounts of cash keep flowing in and out. I do large gambits with cashflows that are large in comparison to the stock holdings. As far as I know, that renders XIRR somewhat useless because of the large cashflows.

What are the methodologies people use to cleanly track their investments?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Mine is 7.8% annualized since 2002. 

I use a Google Docs spreadsheet. Have to record any transfers and purchases. It then reads values of ETFs + my British funds in real time (almost) and records them daily. Also calculates money-weighted and time-weighted returns (included YTD, month, 3-months, etc..., sends me emails when the dividends are paid and when I need to re-balance.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I'm having trouble tracking these. My RRSP is easy enough because I record all cashflows in & out. TFSA would be similarly easy.


 We hold mostly registered account, 2 RRSPs, 2 LIRAs, 2 TFSA , never redeem, so it's easy to calculate...except this we have 2 stocks from ESP and GRRSP that is impossible to calculate because on the bi-monthly contributions


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks gibor & mordko. mordko -- do you also keep these in registered accounts like gibor is doing?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Thanks gibor & mordko. mordko -- do you also keep these in registered accounts like gibor is doing?


Our global allocation target , to have at least 40-45% in cash (GICs and HISA), for remaining 55-60% that include equities, ETFs and bonds, room in our registered accounts are enough.... 
Also I hate dealing with taxes , with registered I don't have to worry about it


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gibor mine is similar. My global allocation target is 25% cash (GICs and HISA). Unfortunately the remaining 75% investments don't fit in my registered accounts so they get scattered across non-reg accounts. This motivated me to develop this non-reg-friendly stock portfolio. Which, by the way, is dramatically outperforming the TSX in 2016


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> mordko -- do you also keep these in registered accounts like gibor is doing?


Yep. And it's all long-term investment; most of the transactions have to do with reinvesting dividends.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

I am 6% - Canadian stock, 26% - US, 11% - UK, 16% - other developed, 21% - Emerging, 15% - Fixed income, 5% "Assets" (e.g. gold/silver/platinum and REITs),


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

We're Bonds 8.7, Rest of the World	3.5, Canada 47.5	, US	40.3


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

james4beach said:


> What are the methodologies people use to cleanly track their investments?


James did you see this one?
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns









You need month end account values and monthly external cash flows, but daily cash flows are not needed. You said large amounts of cash flowing in and out, but unless you track it there's no way to get RoR.

I really wish TDDI could provide consolidated performance reporting for all sub-accounts. I have 2 LIRAs, each in a separate sub-account that cannot be reported on together with my cash, RRSP and TFSA accounts.


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## livewell (Dec 1, 2013)

mordko said:


> Mine is 7.8% annualized since 2002.
> 
> I use a Google Docs spreadsheet. Have to record any transfers and purchases. It then reads values of ETFs + my British funds in real time (almost) and records them daily. Also calculates money-weighted and time-weighted returns (included YTD, month, 3-months, etc..., sends me emails when the dividends are paid and when I need to re-balance.


I also use multiple Google Docs spreadsheets to track my investments across multiple accounts (Annual with XIRR, dividend tracking + ROI and multiple other parameters, and yes daily gain/loss  I would like to know how do you get it send you an email when dividends are paid. 

I also do not calculate money weighted returns. Could you share a sheet (A few rows with stocks/amounts anonymized)?


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

livewell said:


> I also use multiple Google Docs spreadsheets to track my investments across multiple accounts (Annual with XIRR, dividend tracking + ROI and multiple other parameters, and yes daily gain/loss  I would like to know how do you get it send you an email when dividends are paid.
> 
> I also do not calculate money weighted returns. Could you share a sheet (A few rows with stocks/amounts anonymized)?


First, the sheet reads various dividend entries from the web, one of which is the payment date. 

=query(importhtml("https://marketsandresearch.td.com/tdwca/Public/ETFsProfile/Summary/ca/xic", "table", 8), "select Col2 LIMIT 1 OFFSET 8",0)

Second, there is a simple comparison to the current date.

Finally, once a day it runs this script:

function dividendPayed() {
// get the spreadsheet object
var ss = SpreadsheetApp.getActiveSpreadsheet();
var sheet = ss.getSheetByName("Questrade");



// Loop over each fund dividend dates
for (var i = 4; i <= 28; i++) {
var dividendDate = sheet.getRange(i,25).getValue();

if(dividendDate === 0) {
// get ETF name 
var fund = sheet.getRange(i,2).getValue();

// send email
var msg="Dear Mordko: today you received dividends from "+fund 
MailApp.sendEmail("[email protected]", "Dividends Paid Today", msg)

}
} 
};

XIRR = money-weighted rate of return, so you are already calculating it. If you want time-weighted rate of return then Boggleheads link referenced above provides a really good set of sheets.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> First, the sheet reads various dividend entries from the web, one of which is the payment date.


Wow! You're too fancy .... I just manually enter dividends into my spreadsheet and than I have some simple formulas to track it per months, YTD, comparison vs previous Q and previous month-year .

Same for XIRR, just enter from time to time MV of the accounts and XIRR per account and total is calculated


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## livewell (Dec 1, 2013)

Thank you Mordko for sharing this, it is impressively hardcore. 
I don't have any scripts running in my google spreadsheets. I will take a look into trying to set this up on a sheet, but it may be above my skill level ;-)


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Live well, it's dead easy. There is an "Edit scripts" option in one of the menus. You copy paste the script I provided, obviously with minor modifications to the references to align with your sheet. Then there is an option in the menu to set up frequency for running the script. That's it.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

gibor365 said:


> Finally calculated XIRRs
> 
> *2015* 5.64%
> *2016* so far 17%
> ...


Today is the biggest drop in my portfolio since Jan 8..... 5 years average XIRR , in one day, down from 10.6 to 10.2%, 2016 XIRR is down from 14.9 to 12% :upset:


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Big drop for me too. Small caps are all down and my bonds are down too! The only thing saving the day was my gold exposure with MNT


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> Big drop for me too. Small caps are all down and my bonds are down too! The only thing saving the day was my gold exposure with MNT


Everything was down include short-term bonds, REITs, mining stocks etc, with few small exceptions like SLF, FC, LIQ


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

It's amazing how the safe havens like govt bonds were down at the same time. Also ZLB (holding low beta stocks) is down the same amount as XIU in the last two days. So currently ZLB is unable to lessen the volatility.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

james4beach said:


> Big drop for me too. Small caps are all down and my bonds are down too! The only thing saving the day was my gold exposure with MNT


Isn't gold down?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> It's amazing how the safe havens like govt bonds were down at the same time. Also ZLB (holding low beta stocks) is down the same amount as XIU in the last two days. So currently ZLB is unable to lessen the volatility.


Markets are irrational  ... nothing happened today that should lead to such big drop (comparing to other dates)..
btw, SDY (S&P500) Dividends ETF fell 0.5% lower than SPY!


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

mordko said:


> Isn't gold down?


MNT (our royal mint) was up just 0.16% and it's trading in CAD$, conmsidering fact that gold is down almost 1%, mint was down too


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

mordko said:


> Isn't gold down?


Depends on your reference currency. Gold in CAD was up today.

Well gold in USD was down, but the USD vs CAD was up by around the same amount. That is, against CAD reference currency, gold was up today. You can see that both MNT and CGL.C were up as a result.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

meh, 2% drop, I'm not excited, (already rebalanced recently).

Give me a 10%+ drop or so and I'll maybe start to be more interested :yawn:


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

james4beach said:


> It's amazing how the safe havens like govt bonds were down at the same time. Also ZLB (holding low beta stocks) is down the same amount as XIU in the last two days. So currently ZLB is unable to lessen the volatility.


US corporate bonds are doing just fine, in Cdn dollars, such as ZIC. Also, Cdn corporates doing well too, such as ZCM.


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## Market Lost (Jul 27, 2016)

I haven't waded through this thread to see if this was brought up, but it's a bit of a strange thread in that XIRR is an Excel function. As for IRR, it's not a very useful calculation for investments, heck it's not even that useful in project financing because it doesn't tell you much. You just set your hurdle rate, and if it passes, it's another check in a box. 

What you really want to know is your actual rate of return.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

um, nope about it being an excel function, it's calculatable with other tools.
I use OpenOffice, but there are other ways to calculate it.

It's just a calculation, annualized, of your portfolio including all of what you have added or removed on any given day throughout the year, no big deal, but we like to compare differing strategies and their effectiveness over time.

It's just the best measuring stick we have, and it does measure your actual rate of return.

And no, to others in the past who have suggested, it's not some kind of pissing contest, we who post our returns are genuinely interested in how the differing strategies do over time.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

XIRR/IRR/CAGR is not the best for comparing returns. Time-weighted return is a better way of doing it. And comparing returns mid-month is generally a bit too much for my taste... But yeah, market dropped a bit so it's interesting.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> As for IRR, it's not a very useful calculation for investments, heck it's not even that useful in project financing because it doesn't tell you much. You just set your hurdle rate, and if it passes, it's another check in a box.
> 
> What you really want to know is your actual rate of return.


XIRR is giving you "your actual rate of return"


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Not sure what is the "actual" rate of return. "Real" return would be net of inflation, but you don't need that to compare returns over the same period of time.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

mordko said:


> XIRR/IRR/CAGR is not the best for comparing returns. Time-weighted return is a better way of doing it. And comparing returns mid-month is generally a bit too much for my taste... But yeah, market dropped a bit so it's interesting.


For time-weighted return you need the total porfolio value for every single time you add or remove money. 

Most people don't have those numbers. For xirr all you need is dec. 31 values, and deposits and withdrawals made on any days throughout the year.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

mrPPincer said:


> For time-weighted return you need the total porfolio value for every single time you add or remove money.


Or you can have values at the end of each month, like these guys have done in the Bogleheads Return spreadsheet: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Calculating_personal_returns 

Then you are approximating but its accurate enough.


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## GreatLaker (Mar 23, 2014)

Justin Bender has a TWRR calculator on his blogsite. It needs month end portfolio values, plus the date and amount of each contribution.
Use the "Rate of Return Calculator – Modified Dietz Method" spreadsheet.
http://www.canadianportfoliomanagerblog.com/calculators/

It's easier to use than the Bogleheads spreadsheet, but it only handles one year at a time.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

For me time weighted and xirr are pretty much the same thing, as I have minimal contributions & no withdrawals most years (semi-retired).
Thanks for the links; I'll maybe do a comparison sometime.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Same here... Because all my accounts are registered, I don't have any sells and only couple of contributions per years for RRSR/TFSA... 


> Thanks for the links; I'll maybe do a comparison sometime.


 somehow I assume that it will be the same number...


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

I have seen how those two different measures can be very different. Especially if you have large cashflows in or out, vs the total amount. The XIRR can change a lot when you do that.


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

^ exactly. If you ar not contributing or withdrawing - no issue. If you are only contributing at the end of the term, the two measures are the same. Under all other scenarios comparing XIRR to index or other peoples returns is utterly meaningless.

Here is a good example, illustrating the issue https://www.pwlcapital.com/en/Advis...ney-Weighted-vs-Time-Weighted-Rates-of-Return


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

^Utterly meaningless are kinda strong words don't you think?

They are two slightly different yardsticks, one measures more accurately how you have actually done (xirr),
the other (time weighted) gives you a number that can be more fairly compared to indices etc, but does not as closely resemble the reality of how the portfolio actually went.

I like xirr, I'd say it's the most accurate way that is also the easiest, to evaluate how you've done year over year imho.

Also, xirr is time-weighted too; maybe what they're calling time-weighted should be time-overweighted or something, because it overweights how the portfolio does when there are more dollars added and underweights it when there are dollars removed, (or vice versa)*,if I understand correctly.

I read your article, and I do get why the industry wants to use time-weighted though, because it pretty much ignores any moving around of funds that the investor might do (be it under advisement or not).


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

Good news is that all discount brokerages have introduced performance calculations. I find that iTrade's interface is better than TDDI's. They're time weighted, not XIRR.

With iTrade I can get a calendar year return (2014: X%, 2015: Y%) and I think that's very useful for doing an apples-to-apples comparison to ETF performance, which is also published as calendar years. This for example is how I know that I have been out-performing my fixed income benchmark XSB... I can now just compare to the ETF web page, which is very simple to do.

My opinion is that for comparisons to benchmarks, you should use time weighted. This is why I think the iTrade interface is great: I simply pull up my portfolio's return through their Performance interface and compare to the ETF performance. This is apples-to-apples! And I think this is the more important number, because this is how you evaluate your strategy and methodology.

This is what mordko is saying too. For comparisons, to funds and other people, you must use time weighted.

But I also agree that XIRR is showing you an actual return once you factor in cashflows and it's important to know how you actually performed.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

^nice! 

Problem is I have stuff all over the place so for an accurate picture including cash I have to still do it myself.
I use G&M's portfolio tracker to keep track of how it's balanced day to day, and use OpenOffice to check xirr once in a while.

Have yet to get into google spreadsheets.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

> This is what mordko is saying too. For comparisons, to funds and other people, you must use time weighted.


Again, I just don't think most people have all 12 of their month's end portfolio balances at their fingertips in order to run that calculation.

For most people, xirr is going to be pretty much the same as time-weighted, unless they've recently had an inheritance, or an emergency situation such as a house fire etc, in which case they can just mention that, "results are skewed because..". XIRR will reflect their reality.

eg. Using time weighted you could go on a one-year sabbatical right at a market bottom, blow 90% of your money, and still have a good time-weighted return; whereas xirr would reflect the reality of that decision.

Time weighted is great if you want to compare to an index extracting the reality of your situation, but only if that's only what you want to see.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> I like xirr, I'd say it's the most accurate way that is also the easiest, to evaluate how you've done year over year imho.


 I agree! Very straightforward and accurate


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## mordko (Jan 23, 2016)

Put it this way... This year my time and money-weighted returns differ by 0.2 percent. That's not worth bothering about, but I only invested 2 percent of the total value. If your investment or withdrawals constitute anywhere near 10 percent of the fund value then the difference is likely to be significant. Comparing to benchmarks or other peoples' returns becomes meaningless.

I am not saying that money weighted return isn't important for your own benefit but it does not tell much about the performance of underlying investment. It's more of a measure of how lucky or otherwise you were with your timing. It's not what one needs to know when evaluating performance and asset allocation.


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## mrPPincer (Nov 21, 2011)

> Comparing to benchmarks or other peoples' returns becomes meaningless.


That's fine, it's clear that it's meaningless to you, for that purpose, you've already said that.

That does not mean it's meaningless. xirr tells us a lot; it's a tool, that even when comparing to benchmarks or other people, includes any life situation which may have caused some market timing. 

As long as that is understood, it's a better measurment in a sense; it tells us more; doesn't candy-coat things.. but to each his own, we aren't all using google docs.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Thus my 2016 XIRR is 14.8%
6 year annualized XIRR is 11% 

Beat by 0.8% my benchmark: 20% VSC, 40% XIC, 30% SPY, 10% VEA


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

gibor365 said:


> Thus my 2016 XIRR is 14.8%
> 6 year annualized XIRR is 11%
> 
> Beat by 0.8% my benchmark: 20% VSC, 40% XIC, 30% SPY, 10% VEA


Does that include your cash holdings?


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Spudd said:


> Does that include your cash holdings?


Yes, but cash holdings (include GICs) only withing discount brokerage accounts... About 40-45% of Cash sitting in HISAs/GICs outside of discount brokerage is not included


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Correction
Total XIRR - 14.5%
6 years XIRR - 10.91%

P.S. missed small TFSA contribution


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

This year my XIRRs are not so good like last year 
So far
My 2017 XIRR is 6.9%
6.5 year annualized XIRR is 10.2%


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## BoringInvestor (Sep 12, 2013)

Sounds interesting to compare at this point in the year.
I track both my money-weighted (XIRR), and time-weighted (TWRR) rates of return.

YTD 2017 XIRR: 6.00%
YTD 2017 TWRR: 6.86%

58 month/nearly 5 year XIRR: 8.92%
58 month/nearly 5 year TWRR: 9.88%


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

BoringInvestor said:


> Sounds interesting to compare at this point in the year.
> I track both my money-weighted (XIRR), and time-weighted (TWRR) rates of return.
> 
> YTD 2017 XIRR: 6.00%
> ...


Pretty close 

Beating by 0.7% my benchmark: 20% VSC, 40% XIC, 30% SPY, 10% VEA


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## Ihatetaxes (May 5, 2010)

Right in between you guys with YTD 2017 XIRR: 6.53% as of yesterday close. Will be better by close today and a whole wack of dividends paid out overnight.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

Wow, everyone is way ahead of me in calculating returns and I'm not even sure on how you do it or why. I would think that comparing one persons return to another would to a large extent depend on their risk tolerance and the amount of equities vs fixed income?? My wife and I are older and have been retired 17 yrs and only keep track of my stock portfolio performance which runs about 25% of my investments. Including divies it is: 
2012 12%
2013 15.5%
2014 22%
2015 -2%
2016 20.5%
2017 ytd 6.5%

In order to take advantage of the dividend tax credit my brokerage investments are in cash and TFSA's. RIF's and cash are in GIC's, savings, MIC's (yuk), etc. I really don't worry too much about how much we spend as we are not extravagant, have what we want, and our cash and investment assets have increased since I started keeping track 20 yrs ago.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

Ihatetaxes said:


> Right in between you guys with YTD 2017 XIRR: 6.53% as of yesterday close. Will be better by close today and a whole wack of dividends paid out overnight.


Same here , as per yeasterday close 2017 - 7.15%, LTD - 10.25%


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

frase said:


> .....I would think that comparing one persons return to another would to a large extent depend on their risk tolerance and the amount of equities vs fixed income??


For sure, it would be meaningless without that information, or at least an indication that the portfolio matched its allocation closest to one of the three FPX indices consisting of (growth, balanced or income).

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

frase said:


> My wife and I are older and have been retired 17 yrs and only keep track of my stock portfolio performance which runs about 25% of my investments.


OK, so those are just your stock returns and fixed income isn't part of this figure?

Those are very nice returns. How are you allocated? (Or if it's just a mutual fund or ETF, which do you use?)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

frase said:


> Wow, everyone is way ahead of me in calculating returns and I'm not even sure on how you do it or why. I would think that comparing one persons return to another would to a large extent depend on their risk tolerance and the amount of equities vs fixed income?? My wife and I are older and have been retired 17 yrs and only keep track of my stock portfolio performance which runs about 25% of my investments..


My calculations include only discount brokerage holdings that is 50% of total assets ( other 50% is cash/GIC in online banks). Also i doesn't include about 120K (8.4% of total assets) of ESP/Awards stocks
Started to track annual XIRR only in 2015 ant it's
2015 5.64%
2016 14.63%


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

like_to_retire said:


> For sure, it would be meaningless without that information, or at least an indication that the portfolio matched its allocation closest to one of the three FPX indices consisting of (growth, balanced or income).
> 
> ltr


This is why I publish my benchmark: 20% VSC, 40% XIC, 30% SPY, 10% VEA , my allocation is similar, except a bit short Rest of the World 10% allocation


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

My 2017 YTD return is +2% ... on a CAD basis.

That includes everything, including cash, GICs, bonds, stocks. Probably not too bad considering that cash & bond returns are essentially nil YTD. I don't have a huge amount of stock exposure.


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

james4beach said:


> My 2017 YTD return is +2% ... on a CAD basis.
> 
> That includes everything, including cash, GICs, bonds, stocks. Probably not too bad considering that cash & bond returns are essentially nil YTD. I don't have a huge amount of stock exposure.


Is it XIRR or just simple return?! Mine simple return obviously less just 5.025%.
This is I got hit with raising US$.

My cash/GIC return should be about 2.5-2.7%,I don't calculate it (except montly income from interest)


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## gibor365 (Apr 1, 2011)

> don't have a huge amount of stock exposure.


 This is what I don't get , you are young, single, with good education... for retired frase or semi-retired myself - situation is different


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

gibor365 said:


> This is what I don't get , you are young, single, with good education... for retired frase or semi-retired myself - situation is different


I have low stock exposure because I don't have any job security. At the drop of a hat, I could be unemployed for the next X months. If I had a steady job and job security that would keep providing me steady income for the next 20 years (like my dad had), I would invest VERY differently.

In my situation, at any moment, I may have to start living off my savings. Working in the US as a visitor, I also doubt that I'd be eligible for any kind of unemployment insurance. So the moment I am unemployed, I will have to start drawing money out of my liquid savings. This is incompatible with having a high stock allocation.


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## birdman (Feb 12, 2013)

james4beach said:


> OK, so those are just your stock returns and fixed income isn't part of this figure?
> 
> Those are very nice returns. How are you allocated? (Or if it's just a mutual fund or ETF, which do you use?)


Probably 45% banks (RY,CM, TD) along with fairly good chunks of FTS, T, IPL, CHE, and smaller positions in a few others including CSH.un, TRP, ENB (just bought it at 49.52), EXE, BCE. No penny stocks and only Cdn holdings. Managed to avoid the crash of 2008/9 and cashed out the first day while on a cruise ship. For the most part I stay clear of commodities. I believe you are not really a big fan of the banks but I spent 35 years in the business and have always liked them. Have been in and out of a number of others but really don't trade very much at all. Traded CHE and just bought back in at 17. +, Been in and out of IFC but wish I was still in, and made a pretty good chunk on IPL a few years ago and bought in at around 9.00. Also, used to hold BMO covered calls on banks, Vanguard Dividend Cdn etf, and some other which I don't recal.
Yes, those returns do not include fixed income including 15% allocation in MIC's and a private loan. I wish I didn't have the latter 2! With the exception of the foregoing, the rest of my fixed income is in GIC's, savings, a little bullion. As I have mentioned in previous threads I don't ladder my fixed income and stay short (1-2 yrs) when rates are low and go 5 yrs when rates peak. It really depends on the yield curve and where you think rates are going. I was almost always mostly 5yrs as rates were falling but when they bottomed I stayed shorter. Just my thoughts and the difference between shorter and longer rates is presently not that much and is taxable. 
Anyways, thats the way I do it and it works for me and keeps my stress level down.


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## like_to_retire (Oct 9, 2016)

james4beach said:


> So the moment I am unemployed, I will have to start drawing money out of my liquid savings. This is incompatible with having a high stock allocation.


How many years salary do you keep in cash? Wouldn't two to three years be suffice to get you to a new job, and time for the markets to rebound?

ltr


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## james4beach (Nov 15, 2012)

like_to_retire said:


> How many years salary do you keep in cash? Wouldn't two to three years be suffice to get you to a new job, and time for the markets to rebound?


Yes 2-3 yrs in cash would be plenty of buffer. My annual spending is around 36K so 3 years would be about 100K in cash or cash-like, such as GICs that are maturing within the next year or so.


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