# Wrong choice of university studies?



## Mother (Jun 24, 2021)

My 18 year old daughter is entering her 2nd year engineering studies. Like all other universities, classes are now happening on campus and we have signed a one year lease for an apartment for her and a roommate. 

Something is nagging at me about her choice of studies. I mean, she has never been interested in problem solving. She can not (does not want to) figure out how to do simple things. I am just worried that we are going to spend a lot of money putting her through another 4 years of studies just for her to realize that engineering is not for her. She cruised through elementary and high school easily. When asked what she wanted for a career, she couldn't decide for the longest time until the last 2 months before applying for college when she suddenly announced she wanted to study biomedical engineering. I believe this was because most of her smart classmates are choosing engineering studies and she didn't want to be left out. I questioned her choice but my husband kept insisting to just let her try.

The first year was hard as she stressed over 6 and 7 courses but managed to pass them all. She scored some A's, B's and one C+. Most of the time, she looks to me like she hates studying and would ask questions like "How does one make easy money?" My husband says to just let her "try it out" since we have saved almost $190k in resp and our other daughter's studies are mostly covered by scholarships. 

Do you guys think I am thinking too much and my husband is right about letting her "try it out"? Isn't it a waste of money and time if she decides 2 years down the road that she hates it? 

It would be nice to hear what some of you have to say lol.


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## Money172375 (Jun 29, 2018)

There are a LOT of people who’s careers don’t match what they studied in university. I wouldn’t worry about it. “growth” in university is much more than the subject one studies. 
there’s way too much pressure on “kids” to figure out what they want out of a life when they’re 18-25 years old. Any education is a good one.


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## Spudd (Oct 11, 2011)

It sounds like she got decent marks in first year, and it's what she wants to do, so I would also let her try. If she wants to switch majors after two years, I'm sure at least some of her classes will still count towards her new major. I know a lot of first year engineering students struggle with the increased workload and difficulty over high school, so I don't think her grades are anything to worry about. 

I majored in physics, and my dad told me I should not because I was not good at math. (I have never been good at doing mental arithmetic, so his impression was that it extended to all math.) I ended up winning the gold medal for physics in my graduating class. True, I didn't end up being a physicist, but I did end up with a good career that I enjoyed.


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

20+ years in half the Engineers I went to school with moved on to other fields. Also almost everyone in my program who didn't finish quit on their own, and the ones I kept in contact with are doing just fine.

The thing is an Engineering education gives you a lot of hard technical skills and techniques, and also teaches you how to learn. In short, I think it's an excellent "General" education.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Money172375 said:


> “growth” in university is much more than the subject one studies.


What growth ? Who Am I to think & judge ? If its good for the professor its good enough for for me. I do not think I just learn. The sheep wear useless masks to school because they do not think. The schools have become propaganda machines just like main stream media.

The average student never gets back the money waisted learning.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

I agree with prior posts. Let it be. If after a few years, this specific program is not a fit, much of what she has taken will be creditable to something else. I've know of family individuals who have switched twice. Sure it may take an extra year (or two) to get a degree in the newly chosen field but that is a minor inconvenience. My own sons made faculty switches some 25 years ago and they turned out just fine.


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## Mother (Jun 24, 2021)

Thanks guys. Personally (coming from a poor upbringing myself) I don't like the idea of wasting money. However, now my husband and I can afford it (we started resp as soon as first was born), I guess we will just let her try it out.

But, if I could advise her (my husband says I can't confuse her 🙄), I would suggest that she takes 2 year studies like dental assistant or something similar and gets a job. Then we can gift them the leftover resp (plus a little more, actually alot more lol) for their first home purchase. That way she doesn't have to be so stressed doing calculus and physics and we can all go vacationing together.

Maybe this mother hen just wants her little chick to not suffer through crazy difficult engineering courses. It IS very hard watching her stress like that. Besides, I personally prefer a simple life. BUT she is not me.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

Don't dash her aspirations for a marketable degree. She will figure out what she wants to be. 

The best thing parents can do is to be supportive/neutral and not to pressure for difficult degrees and don't pressure to do something easier and simpler.


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## Mother (Jun 24, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> Don't dash her aspirations for a marketable degree. She will figure out what she wants to be.
> 
> The best thing parents can do is to be supportive/neutral and not to pressure for difficult degrees and don't pressure to do something easier and simpler.


AltaRed, you must be an amazing parent. I wish I could stay calm


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Support her. Your daughter will find her place. I am so very thankful for the time that I spent at university. It did change me to a certain extent. I am one of who changed careers post university and never regretted it for a moment. But...it would not have been possible had I not had my original degree and training. And there are plenty of others like me who ended up with interesting careers in IT,


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## MrMatt (Dec 21, 2011)

Mother said:


> Thanks guys. Personally (coming from a poor upbringing myself) I don't like the idea of wasting money. However, now my husband and I can afford it (we started resp as soon as first was born), I guess we will just let her try it out.
> 
> But, if I could advise her (my husband says I can't confuse her 🙄), I would suggest that she takes 2 year studies like dental assistant or something similar and gets a job. Then we can gift them the leftover resp (plus a little more, actually alot more lol) for their first home purchase. That way she doesn't have to be so stressed doing calculus and physics and we can all go vacationing together.
> 
> Maybe this mother hen just wants her little chick to not suffer through crazy difficult engineering courses. It IS very hard watching her stress like that. Besides, I personally prefer a simple life. BUT she is not me.


The army has a slogan, "Train hard, fight easy".

When you come out of Engineering school, particularly a harder school, and start working, you breeze through a lot of the other stuff. Maybe it's because they were smarter, but maybe it was because they had much harder courseloads.

It was commonly observed that the Engineers when we took our NTEs (Non Technical Electives) almost always sat at the top of the class, with almost no effort, while taking 5 other very hard courses. 

As long as it isn't too much, it's just exercising your mind. 

Secondly specifically to Calculus and Physics, if you can understand those topics to the level required, your ability to understand "stuff" will be much higher.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

A friend of ours went to university and got a degree........and didn't like the job opportunities, so he went back to college and got a diploma.

The diploma got him a job as a robotics technician for a big German company. He traveled the world working in automotive manufacturing assembly plants.

The degree got him a promotion in the company to a general sales manager covering North America. 

He still travels the world but earns a lot more money doing it.


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## nobleea (Oct 11, 2013)

Engineering is supposed to be stressful. For an undergrad degree, it's one of the hardest courseloads. They said 2/3 of the students in a first year class would not make it to graduation. Like your daughter, all my group of friends went in to Engineering together. Some because they wanted to and it was a natural fit, and others because they had the grades, that's what their friends were doing. I did well throughout. The friends that I thought would do well did not and the ones that I thought wouldn't make it have the most rewarding careers/highest pay. I would say 50% of those I graduated with are not doing 'engineering' work anymore.

My sister went through an undergrad, a masters, and another masters before she found her 'calling'. Picking/finding what you enjoy is part of the learning process. And like any learning activity, if the parent does it for the student, nothing is learned.


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## agent99 (Sep 11, 2013)

I played golf today with a guy from Africa with a Bachelors in dental surgery. He left Africa and went to Belgium for a Masters, then to Canada for a PhD. Today, he owns an in-home care company for seniors and elders. 

I knew a number of students who were doing post graduate degrees in Bio-mechanical engineering. They did their initial degrees in Mechanical Engineering, but their postgraduate work was in the medical faculty doing research into new types of joint replacement materials. Seemed very interesting and quite removed from what we normally think of as mechanical engineering. 

I knew another young lady who first graduated in Civil Engineering. After working at that for a while, she obtained an MBA and them moved on with great success into various top level management positions totally unrelated to Civil Engineering.

So, basically it doesn't matter just how you get the initial education. There are many opportunities along the way if you wish to switch tracks.


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## leoc2 (Dec 28, 2010)

I agree with the posters that say..."be neutral and supportive" ... My brother in law went from an undergrad in engineering to a successful career as a lawyer...My friend and coworker went for engineer to Harvard MBA to chairman of Goldman Sachs (no longer in that position).


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## Mother (Jun 24, 2021)

Very interesting responses. I will try to keep my cool and let her explore her own path. According to some of your responses, it might take her a while to land on her feet and probably a few pretty pennies later. Meanwhile, I guess I'd better try to focus on something else to occupy my mind. Nonetheless, it's going to be hard dropping her off in September 😢 I bet there are a few of you whose kids are heading to uni as well.

Thanks all for your advice.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Was listening to Martin Armstrong in a podcast he said he was asked by a famous university to teach economics. He asked why they wanted him to teach they told him they knew what they were teaching was not working & they did not know what to teach that worked.

I have heard the legendary PQ Wall say to find out info regarding quantum physics for his cycle work he had to talk to only one man because no one else truly understood the theory yet quantum physics is taught in school.

Kids that get out of business school & start a business the odds of failing are a lot higher then someone who never went to school though has worked in the field of the business they start.

Pay to learn a craft by going to school or work for someone that is successful in a craft & makes money @ it ? Then think what can be improved or not improve to make money in the field.

Of course your never going to get super rich working for a paycheck which is the method the teacher is using.

Mom & pop funding the education is like paper trading. When no skin is in the game your not going to be as successful when you play in the real world.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I would say university was by far the most stressful period of my life. Mainly the pervasive feeling that I should always be working. It made it hard to enjoy yourself when you always have a nagging feeling that there is more than you can do.

I don't think guiding her to an easier course of study makes sense. If she can hack it and 'enjoys' or is willing to do it to achieve her goal, it makes more sense for her to pursue engineering as it will keep more doors open for her. And most university education in STEM instills numeracy and critical thinking skills that are useful in many areas of endeavor. The one downside of engineering is that your electives are more constrained. I was able to take the equivalent of an MBA worth of business courses that rounded out my education, as well as some literature studies, language, etc.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

Even if you had a desire to 'guide' her what makes you think she would follow your advice? Let her do her own thing. She is clearly smart, motivated, and knows what she wants. There is nothing to stop her from moving forward to any career she chooses. 

As an example, we have an acquaintance who is a lawyer. Actually the managing partner of a firm that specializes in condo/construction litigation. He is also a P Eng. His success and his interest in this area of practice was fostered by his engineering background. 

Let her do her thing.

I tried to guide my son into law. Fortunately I was not successful. It was a career that I aspired to at one time. For all the wrong reasons I was attempting to ascribe this desire on to my son. It was not what he wanted. Fortunately he moved to his own tune.


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## Mother (Jun 24, 2021)

ian said:


> Fortunately he moved to his own tune.



I am glad it worked out for him. Most parents just want to see their kids happy.


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## NotJustDreaming (Oct 20, 2013)

Very similar situation to you. And I’m the mom too. Three kids though.

Our two oldest are both in university. D1 is entering 3rd year political science / history . D2 2nd year aerospace engineering. Who knows where either will end up career-wise. They both love their programs though. Each is stressful in different ways. Challenging. I think that’s good. I’d be disappointed in funding education that wasn’t difficult. 

I tried to stay out of their education paths in high school aside from steering them to maths and sciences early on. And encouraging them in their decisions, for the most part - D1 did waffle between her current program and something in languages. I may be responsible for her not studying Italian right now. I thought her French immersion program was challenging enough. Though it was simply an opinion. And she asked me for it. I had my fingers crossed though. And breathed a sigh of relief.

D2 decided on engineering just when university application deadlines were approaching. I was pleased that she chose a difficult path because I worry that we coddle our kids too much.

I think they’re both in good places for who they are. And I’m crazy proud of both of them.

The engineering program is not much more expensive than the arts program. Tuition pales in comparison to accommodation, meals etc. Both kids are costing us about $20k each a year. I also like that they are living away as that takes care of any coddling. I wasn’t happy when they first left the nest though. 

That’s what the RESP is for. It’s at $227k this week. I’m more than pleased that it is providing all the funds so far. Ideally, I’ll return the contributions to ourselves but who knows if the growth and grants will last all three kids.. I don’t think we’ll fund house down payments and I think renting makes sense with how the real estate market is. We fund their TFSAs and will continue while we have the means. Though that money is for their own retirement who knows when / if they’ll dip into it before then. 

Our fourteen year old boy? Not sure if he’s doing post secondary at all. He wants to be a professional gamer. Or a Lego Creator. He’s our laziest student. But people tell me it’s because he’s a boy. Maybe I coddle him the most. 

Three kids. Same parents. Different paths. I hope I can be there for each of them when they need me. And I hope they’ll always need me. But not too much.

Mother! All that to say, you’re doing a great job with your kids. It is a fine balance between too much and not enough guidance. I think it’s great that you’re questioning yourself. My own opinion is our kids need to make their own choices and mistakes. Some discomfort and stress is good. And us parents are here to celebrate or lean on as the case may be. And finally, I didn’t know much at their age. Certainly my career path was not close to my academics. I wouldn’t bet on my kid’s education matching their career path. 

NJD


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

NotJustDreaming said:


> Our two oldest are both in university. D1 is entering 3rd year political science / history .
> 
> 
> The engineering program is not much more expensive than the arts program. Tuition pales in comparison to accommodation, meals etc. Both kids are costing us about $20k each a year. I also like that they are living away as that takes care of any coddling. I wasn’t happy when they first left the nest though.
> ...


The RESP is to pay for propaganda. The history books used in the schools were written by socialists. What is the difference between a politician & a psychopath ? Nothing

RESP is great for making kids dependent instead of having kids take responsibility. The control freak dictators love those that are dependent as the dependent are easy to control


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## Mother (Jun 24, 2021)

Thanks for sharing your story NotJustDreaming. Sounds like amazing kids you have there.

I remember thinking I will be free once they finish high school and off to uni. Now I realize parenting never ends. I have also seen posts here talking about contributing to grandchildrens' RESP. I hope we wouldn't have to do that but time will tell. My husband and I never had much help from our own parents and somehow we managed to secure a very good retirement for ourselves (without a degree. My husband started but was offered a job midway). It is true that making it on your own builds discipline and character. But things have definitely changed for sure. How are kids supposed to afford house prices nowadays especially in Vancouver? Crazy! I am just glad we are able to help them (apparently someone here doesn't agree). 

Well, it is crazy hot in Vancouver for next few days. I hope you have good weather where you are.


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## ian (Jun 18, 2016)

The benefit of a post secondary is not necessarily money. In some cases it is choice. The choice not to be stuck in a job, an industry, or a town that you do not like. The choice to be in a position to grab an opportunity. Life is all about choices and the ability to make good ones.

So many other benefits, monetary or otherwise.


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

ian said:


> The benefit of a post secondary is not necessarily money. In some cases it is choice. The choice not to be stuck in a job, an industry, or a town that you do not like. The choice to be in a position to grab an opportunity. Life is all about choices and the ability to make good ones.


 There is only one choice which is to act with in ones nature. A thing is what it is & can not be something different @ the same time & in the same respect. One thought can lead to another thought which has an effect on ones nature. Though the thought that leads to another thought is in direct relationship to ones nature.


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## Mukhang pera (Feb 26, 2016)

Not sure if the OP will return to this thread, but, for what it's worth (amazing, I spelled that out in full, never mind FWIW. Now, if I can resist tossing in one of those ubiquitous and inane LOLs, as a reflection on what a great humorist I am, all will be well) I offer a recent court decision that touches on the subject, albeit indirectly and peripherally. Mildly interesting (at least to me) nonetheless.

It's a personal injury case, but the protagonist is a young woman UVic engineering student. Some of her struggles - including coming to grips with the vexing question of what to be when she grows up - are outlined in the narrative part of the judgment.

_Libera _v_. Burgoyne, _2021 BCSC 1028




__





2021 BCSC 1028 Libera v. Burgoyne






www.bccourts.ca





In print it runs to 31 pp.


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

I think engineering,economics and commerce are the best undergrad degrees. They all look good on a resume and have the most job potential. Biomedical could be very interesting though, studying, modifying and replacing DNA sequences is a disruptive new technology that is changing the way we treat and prevent illnesses. These sort of therapies are replacing pharmaceutical medications as the way to treat and cure cancer for example. It is a very good and booming field to be in.

The prospects for women generally are good too and there is a real push to promote more for gender equity so I think her job prospects could be quite good. I know they are trying to encourage more women to go into engineering which is more male dominated for that reason.

I studied engineering and many do go into a different field - there just aren't a lot of jobs out there for some of the disciplines, But the more in demand fields like electrical , computer and now biotech will have lots of demand.

Many do an MBA which is a good combo. As well if she is at or near the top of her class she will get job offers.


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

There are plenty of jobs out there for young women (far fewer for young men) with engineering degrees that pay well and she won't have to do all that much work. As long as she's able to coherently babble, say false and immoral things on the regular, and go along with whatever activities her particular organization is up to, she'll excel.

Hopefully that's what you want for her.... many parents do, so you'd be in good company.

Otherwise, it's pretty near impossible to find a meaningful career path, where you can pursue activities with integrity that actually improve the world, and not be overworked to death, and still be compensated well enough to afford a regular middle-class life.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

^ Hard to believe how angry, cynical and potentially misogynistic post #28 presents itself. Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

@peterk 

Hmmmm.... this doesn't really sound like you. You usually not this cynical. Are you okay?


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## :) lonewolf (Feb 9, 2020)

Jimmy said:


> Biomedical could be very interesting though, studying, modifying and replacing DNA sequences is a disruptive new technology that is changing the way we treat and prevent illnesses. These sort of therapies are replacing pharmaceutical medications as the way to treat and cure cancer for example. It is a very good and booming field to be in.


 The same principal of not investing in a stock when everyone is most euphoric & invested in a stock would apply to investing time, energy & money into schooling for a job field. Some would say Biomedical is in a bubble. People think the vaccines are going to save them when it could actually kill them.


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## Jimmy (May 19, 2017)

:) lonewolf said:


> The same principal of not investing in a stock when everyone is most euphoric & invested in a stock would apply to investing time, energy & money into schooling for a job field. Some would say Biomedical is in a bubble. People think the vaccines are going to save them when it could actually kill them.


Biomedical is now more DNA research and not vaccines. Not a bubble, a disruptive technology. Like the EV car vs the ICE car


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## peterk (May 16, 2010)

Plugging Along said:


> @peterk
> 
> Hmmmm.... this doesn't really sound like you. You usually not this cynical. Are you okay?





AltaRed said:


> ^ Hard to believe how angry, cynical and potentially misogynistic post #28 presents itself. Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?


Well, there is a heat dome. 

I see I've made the mistake of stumbling into General section by accident. Whoops, I thought this was Personal Finance.

It looks like not much has improved in 10 years, though. Still people jumping down everyone's throats at the drop of a hat. Still so many hard, bitter hearts ready to condemn. So much name calling to make others feel satisfied in their positions. Much easier to call passion and pointedness as anger and cynicism. And to label "others" as misogynists and haters when convenient.

Remember when you got called a misogynist AltaRed, probably undeservedly ? You didn't like that very much at all... neither do I.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

peterk said:


> Well, there is a heat dome.
> 
> I see I've made the mistake of stumbling into General section by accident. Whoops, I thought this was Personal Finance.
> 
> ...


I don’t know how to respond but I will. i can only assume you misinterpreted my post as as an attack or something. Your post are usually thoughtful and don’t sound negative and cynical. That’s why asked if you are okay, out of concern, not criticism. My apologizes if you misinterpreted my post. I would think that if you went Through any of my post history, you will find it difficult to find me name calling any here or IRL. 

i didn’t see passion or pointeness in your post, just a rant, which to my point was not like you. Which may indicate that something was wrong. I guess this how you choose to convey your thoughts.


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## AltaRed (Jun 8, 2009)

peterk said:


> It looks like not much has improved in 10 years, though. Still people jumping down everyone's throats at the drop of a hat. Still so many hard, bitter hearts ready to condemn. So much name calling to make others feel satisfied in their positions. Much easier to call passion and pointedness as anger and cynicism. And to label "others" as misogynists and haters when convenient.


You don't think this could be offensive to females? Note my previous post included 'potentially'.


> There are plenty of jobs out there for young women (far fewer for young men) with engineering degrees that pay well and she won't have to do all that much work. As long as she's able to coherently babble, say false and immoral things on the regular, and go along with whatever activities her particular organization is up to, she'll excel.


The message could be taken as 'token female', 'look pretty', 'don't need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time'. If that was not the intent, just what was the intent?

I am an advocate of increasing both female enrollment and female opportunities in participation in the engineering workplace, and have put money where my mouth is where such opportunities exist. Society will be much better for it. We don't need patronizing interventions but we do need to support the effort.


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## Chrysaphius (Jun 16, 2021)

Mother said:


> My 18 year old daughter is entering her 2nd year engineering studies. Like all other universities, classes are now happening on campus and we have signed a one year lease for an apartment for her and a roommate.
> 
> Something is nagging at me about her choice of studies. I mean, she has never been interested in problem solving. She can not (does not want to) figure out how to do simple things. I am just worried that we are going to spend a lot of money putting her through another 4 years of studies just for her to realize that engineering is not for her. She cruised through elementary and high school easily. When asked what she wanted for a career, she couldn't decide for the longest time until the last 2 months before applying for college when she suddenly announced she wanted to study biomedical engineering. I believe this was because most of her smart classmates are choosing engineering studies and she didn't want to be left out. I questioned her choice but my husband kept insisting to just let her try.
> 
> ...


If she can get the degree in Biomedical Engineering (ie you believe that she has the dedication and intellectual capability to earn that degree), then pay the money.


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## Chrysaphius (Jun 16, 2021)

AltaRed said:


> You don't think this could be offensive to females? Note my previous post included 'potentially'.
> The message could be taken as 'token female', 'look pretty', 'don't need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time'. If that was not the intent, just what was the intent?
> 
> I am an advocate of increasing both female enrollment and female opportunities in participation in the engineering workplace, and have put money where my mouth is where such opportunities exist. Society will be much better for it. We don't need patronizing interventions but we do need to support the effort.


We actually need the best engineers, period. Male or female. The ratio male/female shouldn't matter. Fewer females enroll in engineering programs in general. This is their choice. To displace a male with higher test scores/abilities than a female counterpart would be a net negative not only for the company he/she might work for, but for society in general.


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