# Set Point Theory: Money, like weight is mostly predetermined



## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

Question to the financially independent: "How do you have so much money?".
Answers: "Spend less than you make", "Invest your money", etc.
Response: Glassy stare and then, "Ya ya, but how did you really do it? Did you win the lottery? Get an inheritance or something?"

Question to the healthy: "How do stay so thin?"
Answers: "Eat less and exercise more", "Make healthy choices"
Response: Glassy stare and then, "Ya ya, but how did you really do it? What kind of diet did you go on?", "What about lipo? Pills?"

There's a Set Point Theory at work here that dictates a plateau or "sticking point" for both wealth and health. Attitudes gained from heriditary factors and learned behaviour work for or against you, and there seems to be much inertia to overcome the bad habits picked up over a lifetime. 

You hear so many stories about lottery winners who lose all, if not more than their entire winnings within a year. Just like the dieters who quickly lost weight only to see it all gain back with interest when they fall off the wagon.

I think you're disadvantaged if your parents and social circle while growing up ingrained the wrong attitudes and habits towards health and wealth. 

Sorry for the long ramble, but I just wanted to post that I think forums like CMF are a great tool for people looking to overcome their social programming over the long run.

Good on you folks!


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

I watched an interview with a researcher who had investigated a wide range of "successful" people to learn if there was anything they had in common.

The answer wasn't education, it wasn't family upbringing, it wasn't genetics.

It was "opportunity".

There was opportunity in every success story...........while all the other factors were inconsistent.

Call it...........knowing people, networking, being at the right place at the right time, blind luck, or simply having someone open the door to opportunity.

The difference between success and failure appears to be first getting an opportunity and then making the most of it if you do.


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## lonewolf (Jun 12, 2012)

Even the very best method for making one wealthy would it not @ some point hit critical mass ?

I dont think destiny can be changed, Just like a rock thrown into water causes a chain reaction of ripple after ripple. No thought sits in a vacume by itself but one thought leads to another thought. If an individual becomes a good scientist that is able to cultivate reflective thought from the recording of logic & harness this power to come in contact or possession of that which one values it was simply thier destiny. I dont think anyone is subnatural or even supernatural & has the power not to act in accorrdance with thier nature. Ones nature would it not change as one thought leads to another thought but would it not be like the rock thrown in the water the previous thought would effect the next thought just like the previous ripple effects the next ripple of water.


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## donald (Apr 18, 2011)

I guess relative to my age/demo(under 35,the wealth-part)I'm ahead of most of my peers.
I feel like i literally have no ''choice".I started a business in my mid 20's and had to get busy.Did not want to fail ect(reading the odds of failure ect-think its about a 80% fail rate in 0-5 years for a new venture and even being in year 8 i still have to get to 10 yrs and over according to stats to be out of the woods)

I'm certianly not as wealthy or have the same revenue as some of the older mature companies in my industry(and it is human nature to want to emulate or build something similar,though i'm in a ''growing'' stage and it's a bit uncomfortable,stepping back and really trying to ''work'' on the business instead of in it,it is pretty tough but i need to do it to make sure i can survive long-term)

I watch costs like a hawk-have set prices for each and every job(so i'm organized and have a very healthy feel of what is coming in and go out)

I guess i'm a typical small business owner.My point is though-this is it!I'm fully commited and i can't turn back(i'm in 2 deep and that is that-i'm also extreamly unemployable in the tradition sense)

I would'nt really know what the ''other'' side is like?Living pay-check 2 pay-check ect(i can't i'm 2 wired to think any other way)I could easily ''join'' the jones and buy a 1/2 million house ect(mortgage)and hit the keg every wknd but i can't.


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## lightcycle (Mar 24, 2012)

sags said:


> The difference between success and failure appears to be first getting an opportunity and then making the most of it if you do.


The "making the most of it" part jibes with my theory. Lottery winners are given the opportunity of a lifetime, yet most squander it. How come?

I hate to point to Donald Trump as an example, but the man has come out of personal bankruptcy in the 1990s to achieve great wealth again. There are some people that just make their own opportunities. Or better yet, see opportunities that others do not or are not willing to see - Set Point Theory once again.


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## doctrine (Sep 30, 2011)

Both are related but not exactly the same. Anyone who really wants to and keeps taking the right risks will be able to make themselves "wealthy", if you mean financially secure. To become filthy rich as in the billionaire level, I believe most would agree usually requires luck, but it's not the random blue collar worker who ever becomes the billionaire - it's almost always the hard working business person, who manages to get lucky. It's the difference between being very rich (millionaire) and billionaire.


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## kaleb0 (Apr 26, 2011)

I think this idea of being 'predisposed' is interesting, but I also think it works both ways. I have an almost obsessive compulsion with saving/hoarding money, but it's not because I was raised with these ideas. On the contrary, my mom raised me as a single mother and we were incredibly poor, and she wasn't adept at managing what little funds we had.

I also think that the fact that I don't have any fall-back (many of my peers don't worry *that much* about worst case scenarios because their worst-case scenario is asking their parents to bail them out, this is not an option for me, and on the contrary I have had to bail my mom out a few times.).

I'm definitely a product of my upbringing, but it's for all the wrong reasons.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

I read a book, How to Get Rich or something, and although I wouldn't recommend it, it had one good point. Of all the people out there, only a small, small, small percentage of them actually try to get wealthy. Most people won't go two minutes out of their way towards an opportunity so if you actually run the odds, even just trying to be frugal and actively look for opportunities puts you way ahead in the game. Even getting $50k or $100k in the bank opens up opportunities you wouldn't have as one of the Jones' spending big and living paycheque to paycheque.

In regards to being rich, or super rich, what is the difference in a practical sense? If I had 100 million I probably couldn't spend it all even if I tried, buy simply buying stuff. If I had a billion I definitely couldn't. Look at Buffett. He has to spend money to pay people to spend his money. There is so much that it actually takes effort to put it to work.

I think after a certain amount the money is simply a number and has no bearing on your life style. Literally, once you have enough, you have enough.


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## Dmoney (Apr 28, 2011)

Luck is where the crossroads of opportunity and preparation meet.
(some old Roman dude)

Great book that pertains to this topic is Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. There is a passage about Bill Gates, and how he attended a school that had access to some early computers which the students had access to (opportunity). There was more than one student at this school. They all had the same opportunity as Bill Gates. Why was he so much more successful than all his peers, with the same opportunity? According to the book, 10,000+ hours of "preparation" (fiddling around with the computers, learning their ins and outs and honing his skills). 

A fantastic and inspirational speech on success, and how to attain it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HutvJgpjDgU

Anyone that wants success this badly WILL get it, guaranteed.


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## 1sImage (Jan 2, 2013)

A gentlemen that works for us wife won a lawsuit, receiving a one lump some of $450000. He comes from no money, making just enough to pay his rent, an cover his addiction. The very first week he bought 3 brand new cars, writing a cheque for $90000. Bought a $250000 house, all brand new furniture. Fixed this an that around the house. Basically just spending, spending with no consequence at all. 
Well a year later, I asked him if he would have changed the way he handled his money an his spending habits. 
He responded with a "it was fun"....

He has no money left, never considered investing or trying to set any long term goals. He has a house now but we'll see for how long.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Everyone laughed at me when I brought up a comparison between overweight people and poor people a few months ago on this forum.

Is this not the same idea?

It comes down to discipline.

Fat people are fat because they lack discipline or they just don't care.
Poor people are poor because they lack discipline or they just don't care.

Am I missing something?


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

1sImage said:


> A gentlemen that works for us wife won a lawsuit, receiving a one lump some of $450000. He comes from no money, making just enough to pay his rent, an cover his addiction. The very first week he bought 3 brand new cars, writing a cheque for $90000. Bought a $250000 house, all brand new furniture. Fixed this an that around the house. Basically just spending, spending with no consequence at all.
> Well a year later, I asked him if he would have changed the way he handled his money an his spending habits.
> He responded with a "it was fun"....
> 
> He has no money left, never considered investing or trying to set any long term goals. He has a house now but we'll see for how long.


I know a young couple who won a lawsuit and I believe it was about $300k. Best guess based off numbers they threw around. Anyway, they bought a newish used car and banked the rest. They said that they've been behind since the accident and now that they are ahead they intend to stay that way. They are average people like myself but I must say, I was impressed that they didn't blow it.


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## jcgd (Oct 30, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> Everyone laughed at me when I brought up a comparison between overweight people and poor people a few months ago on this forum.
> 
> Is this not the same idea?
> 
> ...


Apparently there are disorders where eating is not really a choice. Apparently... Maybe there are but everyone who is overweight that I know brings it upon themselves, myself included. People don't even know what overweight is now. Most of the population would say someone with a (from a medical perspective) healthy weight is too skinny. I myself am technically obese. But, most people say I don't need to lose any weight!!??!!??!! :distress:


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## Rusty O'Toole (Feb 1, 2012)

KaeJS said:


> Everyone laughed at me when I brought up a comparison between overweight people and poor people a few months ago on this forum.
> 
> Is this not the same idea?
> 
> ...


Addictions are easy to control. Other peoples' I mean. It's just like the people who were never sick a day in their lives. They have nothing but contempt for sick people and can't understand why they let themselves get sick.


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## Haligonian (Nov 3, 2012)

KaeJS said:


> Everyone laughed at me when I brought up a comparison between overweight people and poor people a few months ago on this forum.
> 
> Is this not the same idea?
> 
> ...


Yes, I think you are missing something. At your age, you probably have not seen the real life situations that some people experience. Not all poor people are poor because they "lack disipline or just don't care". Some "disiplined" people become poor due to unforeseen situations. I think we should be mindful toward others and not take our good fortunes for granted.
BTW - I happen to know some people who are overweight, but, they are physically fit and eat healthy. You should not judge every book by it's cover.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

If governments would ensure "opportunity" is a core element of social support programs, future dependence on the programs would be reduced.

As it currently stands........that doesn't happen.

Consider the payment of social benefits (welfare) to a young mother. As long as she is dependent on those benefits, she is trapped in a low income environment.

But, rather than provide her with the opportunity to gain an education and employment, while her expenses and children were looked after, the government cuts off all her benefits (including family health care) if she returns to school.

No opportunity..............no path forward.

Punishment...........rather than assistance seems to be the goal.


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## Simon Says (Jan 5, 2013)

*Determination*



Haligonian said:


> Yes, I think you are missing something. At your age, you probably have not seen the real life situations that some people experience. Not all poor people are poor because they "lack disipline or just don't care". Some "disiplined" people become poor due to unforeseen situations. I think we should be mindful toward others and not take our good fortunes for granted.
> BTW - I happen to know some people who are overweight, but, they are physically fit and eat healthy. You should not judge every book by it's cover.


I'm in my 30's and basically come from nothing, many of the same people I grew up with turned out to go nowhere and I know many overweight people. I have been known to slightly offend people with the things I say but unfortunately my filter is occasionally broken. 99.9% of overweight people are overweight because they either 1) don't care or 2) Care but have given up. The other .1% are on a medication in which case it's near impossible to lose weight. I have helped people lose weight who never could before then. They lack the will to educate themselves on diet and exercise, they lack the will to make good healthy food and they lack the will to exercise regularly. The difference between them and me is only determination. If I was in there shoes tomorrow I would lose 2 lbs a week until I was no longer overweight. Sure it's hard and not everyone likes working out (personally I hate it) but I do it almost every day (Sunday I take off) because I have determined I must. Maybe I'm a bit extreme, maybe I have OCD - I'm not sure. The fact is that the determination I'm talking about occurs whether I'm fixing something, building something, learning something or exercising. I make mistakes, mess up and fail on occasion and next time I try harder. 

When the weight of the world is on your shoulders some people push and some people sink. It's a mindset and I think your upbringing has a lot to do with it. With that being said some people are poor for unforeseen circumstances and it's usually a very said situation (disease, loss of a loved one etc) and they may be poor the rest of their life and they may need our help but the determined people will continue to live a fruitful happy life. Getting involved in church or helping others. The other people will live off of unemployment and spend their money on cigarettes and beer. Most of our "poor" people were rich compared to 1940's war torn Europe, they have cell phones, cars, apartments and cable TV. I know people that still bake all their own bread, raise their own meat and vegetables and live off of very little....but they are also very determined and have been so for the 80+ years they've been on this earth.

I also have a very loving wife to support me, and that's important too. A person will give up immediately if no one believes in them, especially their loved ones.


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

lightcycle said:


> The "making the most of it" part jibes with my theory. Lottery winners are given the opportunity of a lifetime, yet most squander it. How come?...


... and most sports figures that pull in huge salaries tend to end up with little as well.

If one hasn't had money, believe the money will end years in the future and choose to focus on what got them their - they likely will get used to spending plus not much else. Others who recognise the importance of learning at least enough to understand what's going on, tend to end up with a lot more.


The difference experience makes is highlighted by the interviews done with twenty US lottery winners (if I recall correctly, the minimum amount won was $50 million). Something like twelve commented that "if I'd have taken the winnings as one lump sum, I'd be broke - it took a couple of years to figure out I needed to learn how to manage my finances". 


Cheers


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## Eclectic12 (Oct 20, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> ...Fat people are fat because they lack discipline or they just don't care.
> Poor people are poor because they lack discipline or they just don't care.
> 
> Am I missing something?


You are missing other factors. 

For example, the guy who got into the union at Coke (his salary went up compared to the odd jobs he was doing before) commented that his beer consumption and partying went down when he got into the union. When I asked why - his response was "when I was making next to nothing, I'd party because I didn't see how I could get ahead financially. Now that I'm making good money, I want to invest it."

Or another way of putting it - when he had hope of success, he was willing to make the sacrifices that he wasn't willing to make previously.


Cheers


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

I think it's the combination of opportunity meets readiness to take the opportunity.

There is less control if any over opportunity aka luck. This may be when, where, who you were born to, which country you live in, your parents, etc. The second part of readiness or what one does with opportunity the person has all the control. This is their determination, work ethic, etc. 

I think the latter will be more successful, as they are often about to recognize opportunity when others do not. The person with the determination and the different view in life will be more successful. 

I see it all the time. There is an opportunity to volunteer on a hard project at work. Everyone is asked if they would be willing to help, as there is a high chance of failure, extra hours (unpaid), and stress. Most of my team will turn it down. I volunteered for most of them if I think it's an opportunity to try something new and learn a new skill. Everyone was offered the same opportunity, but it's how one views the scenario if it's good or bad.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

sags said:


> If governments would ensure "opportunity" is a core element of social support programs, future dependence on the programs would be reduced.
> 
> As it currently stands........that doesn't happen.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but being born or a citizen of Canada gives you opportunies that most of the world will never enjoy. 

I look at immigrants that come to Canada with little or no education (at least recognized by North America), they have no money, support families here, and possibly in their home country, have a language barrier, and cultural barrier, no or very little goverment assistance, and they are glad for the opportunity to be here. 

There is almost always a path forward, and some opportunity. I agree for some the path forward is easier than others, and they do have more opportunities, but often I see those who are in their situations, its because they are not taking the few opportunities to them.


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## Plugging Along (Jan 3, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> Everyone laughed at me when I brought up a comparison between overweight people and poor people a few months ago on this forum.
> 
> Is this not the same idea?
> 
> ...


I don't think I laughed the idea that weight loss and money management are often the same. I actually agree with you there. I think I disagreed with your fundmentals of nutrition and weight loss. If I recall, you were eating very little a day, working out like crazy, and then binging. It was your techniques that were really I thought were really off.

In terms of the comparison of the two, I don't think it's just a matter of discipline there's a few factors. I do see that there are a lot of similarities. It was actually me sitting down and realizing that I was financially on the write track, but my health and weight were a mess. I had to look at how they could be so different. 

For me, personal finance was something I had always been exposed to, and had a healthy financial upbringing which provided me the foundation. I don't think much about finance, and it is pretty easy in terms of the basics, spend less than I earn, earn more, save. Not rocket science. However for weight loss, it was eat less than I burn, burn more, only two things, but I struggled. I had to approach it just like I do finance, and I tell you it's a struggle. I've lost 50+ lbs, and it's still not second nature. Some things take people alot longer to learn, especially if it wasn't in their upbringing. I have had to do a ton of research of weight loss, and there is still conflicting information. My point is, there are a lot of elements involved in changing peoples behavior, it's not always as cut and dry as people think.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Eclectic12 said:


> You are missing other factors.
> 
> For example, the guy who got into the union at Coke (his salary went up compared to the odd jobs he was doing before) commented that his beer consumption and partying went down when he got into the union. When I asked why - his response was "when I was making next to nothing, I'd party because I didn't see how I could get ahead financially. Now that I'm making good money, I want to invest it."
> 
> ...


This is what I call lack of discipline.

If he had discipline, he wouldn't party. In fact, he did it backwards. He should have had more discipline in the beginning, and less after he got into the union.


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## sags (May 15, 2010)

Any threat to a well paid job is a real threat.

There is no threat to losing a low paid job. There are lots more to choose from.

Why would "non union" Toyota match the wages and benefits of the Big Three, when they don't have to?

Because anti union as they are, even they recognize the need for a stable, well paid workforce that cares about their job.

Toyota's reputation depends on it.


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