# Auto Insurance - I want it cheap!



## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Okay.

I paying out the *** for insurance. $361/month. I have only one speeding ticket for 15 over from last summer. Never had a claim in my life. Full G license.

I have called Desjardins as I have heard they are quite cheap.

I don't want to go calling 400 companies and insurance is the biggest legal scam on the planet. I just want it to be super cheap, so does anyone have any suggestions?

I am currently with BelairDirect, and I refuse to be with Aviva.


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## ChrisR (Jul 13, 2009)

Move to Winnipeg?

Last year I paid $1300. The public utilities board decided MPI was overcharging, so I got a $450 rebate check in the mail.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

...wha? 

Go to www.kanetix.ca and get online quotes. Then you can follow up directly with the cheapest provider. (There are other quote sites and they all rely on the same underlying engine, for which I've forgotten the name.)


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> ...wha?
> 
> Go to www.kanetix.ca and get online quotes. Then you can follow up directly with the cheapest provider. (There are other quote sites and they all rely on the same underlying engine, for which I've forgotten the name.)


And they follow you directly to the cheapest provider near your neighborhood. . There could be a cheaper provider in the next town over. The other website is called Insurancehotline, they do the same thing.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

MoneyGal said:


> ...wha?
> 
> Go to www.kanetix.ca and get online quotes. Then you can follow up directly with the cheapest provider. (There are other quote sites and they all rely on the same underlying engine, for which I've forgotten the name.)


I just did this.

The cheapest quote I got was $410.08, most expensive was $614.82

How is that even possible...


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

Did you try raising the deductibles and taking off collision? If you're a high risk demographic (young male) they essentially expect you to total your car on an annual basis from what I can tell. I've often been quoted more than the value of the car itself! Few speeding tickets and never had an accident. If youre confident that it's a rip off, then don't pay to insure your own accidents and don't drive a car you can't afford to replace.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

I read a lot of threads on insurance and noticed that over the last couple of years, people were getting the cheapest rates from TD Meloche Monnex and Johnson and Johnson insurance. 

We are with TD Meloche Monnex and it's been the cheapest so far.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

mode3sour said:


> Did you try raising the deductibles and taking off collision? If you're a high risk demographic (young male) they essentially expect you to total your car on an annual basis from what I can tell. I've often been quoted more than the value of the car itself! Few speeding tickets and never had an accident. If youre confident that it's a rip off, then don't pay to insure your own accidents and don't drive a car you can't afford to replace.


Quite understood regarding the whole demographics approach. However, although I fall into that category, I have never made a claim. I think its bs they lump me into a category with idiots that cant drive. Its like being guilty before proving you're innocent...

But yes. Most young males do get into accidents. And even without collision, it doesn't change much. It is the liability that costs money. I drive a 2003 mazda. No big deal, not as if I were driving a brand new 2012 Audi S5


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Jungle said:


> I read a lot of threads on insurance and noticed that over the last couple of years, people were getting the cheapest rates from TD Meloche Monnex and Johnson and Johnson insurance.
> 
> We are with* TD Meloche Monnex *and it's been the cheapest so far.


Will call these guys tomorrow. Thanks, Jungle.


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## Helianthus (Oct 19, 2010)

I'd recommend Belair Direct. I switched from Desjardins last year and saved about 66%.


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## Sherlock (Apr 18, 2010)

Any group discounts you may be eligible for? I was recently contacted by my university's alumni association, and offered a group discount rate for auto insurance with TD Meloche Monex. The alumni group rate was better than any other rate I was quoted before, if I recall correctly it was around $146 for liability and comprehensive (but no collision) and I live in Toronto so that's pretty good. Unfortunately my policy with Allstate (about $190/month) was just renewed and there's a fee to cancel it before it expires so I didn't switch.

Also drop collision, it's not worth it unless your car is really expensive.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

Given your age & gender, I don't think you'll do much better elsewhere, but it sure pays to shop & compare. 

Used to be with TD, but couldn't stand them and quite happy with Belair Direct actually.


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## Financial Cents (Jul 22, 2010)

I've been with Johnson Inc. (Unifund) for years and they've treated me very well.

It never hurts to shop around and ask. Certainly if you work in healthcare, I know discounts are available from Johnson Inc. 

Good luck and let us know what you choose...!


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

More and more people are going without insurance nowadays. If they raise the rates enough, and enforcement stays low enough, it probably makes more sense to drive without insurance.


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## ChrisR (Jul 13, 2009)

slacker said:


> More and more people are going without insurance nowadays. If they raise the rates enough, and enforcement stays low enough, it probably makes more sense to drive without insurance.


And what's the backup plan if you hit someone and put them in a wheelchair? Hide out in Argentina?


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm not making a recommendation on going without insurance. I'm just noting that it's a surprisingly common practice.

It may not be for the above average affluent members of this board, who has much to lose by running into the law, or civil lawsuit. But for the people on edges of society, between food/rent and auto insurance, something's got to give.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

Speaking of going without insurance! A house on my street burned down this week - no insurance (which means they must have owned it). There is major damage to the neighbouring houses....I suspect some lawsuits will be filed but I'm not sure how the victims will collect.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> ...wha?
> 
> Go to www.kanetix.ca and get online quotes. Then you can follow up directly with the cheapest provider. (There are other quote sites and they all rely on the same underlying engine, for which I've forgotten the name.)


I'm amazed you even knew the name of the quoting engine at one point. Auto insurance quote software isn't exactly an interesting topic  

The underlying engine is Compu-Quote, but the data within the engine does vary. Kanetix used to list mostly direct writers, while InsuranceHotline.com used to list mostly broker-based insurance companies. 

Full disclosure: I used to work for one of the two services above. I'd recommend trying both because both have insurance rates the other doesn't, and low insurance is about finding the right match. One company could be the lowest for me and the highest for you.

Also, if there's any way to get on a group insurance policy, those tend to be significantly lower than personal auto insurance.


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## I'm Howard (Oct 13, 2010)

We dumped Johnson, too expensive and could never talk to live person.

I shopped Gray power, some of the sites promising great rates, agent got us good rates and if I need any help, live person answers phone.

We pay $124 a month for car and for $700,000 House Insurance, new vehicle, full coverage.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Every situation is different. Different companies gear their rates towards the demographic they shoot for. I tried that TD suggestion mentioned by several people above and while everyone else was quoting me $1500/yr, they quoted me $4400 -- after their alumni discount!

Check with the cooperators.

All any of us can do is offer suggestions of places to try but you won't be much further ahead than if you simply pick up a phone book and scan the listings. You need to get off the computer and get on the phone. It takes time to shop around for the best rate.

As for insurance hotline, they used to have a quote service you could pay for and they would email you the lowest 3 quotes. I used that service one time and it lead me to some companies I never would have checked.

Also call a local broker - and you can save money by also having your property of tenant's insurance with the same company.


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## Jeebs (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm 30 male,

I managed to save money by packaging my condo and auto insurance together. I pay $124/month.

I use a broker. I pay a small fee but it eases my mind having someone able to find me the best prices with much less work. I go in for a yearly appointment to re-evaluate policies to make sure I'm getting the best deal.


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## Toronto.gal (Jan 8, 2010)

KaeJS said:


> Never had a claim *in my life.* Full G license.


LOL, you're 12? I mean 21? 

I forgot to mention that your insurance is expensive not only because of your age/gender, but also because you fell under the Graduating Licensing System, so you have not held the G license for more than 3/4 years, right? Your insurance should decrease considerably after you have been licensed for X number of years, can't remember now the magic number I read, anyway, it will get better the older you get, so long as you keep a clean driving record and that you should be your top priority!

Good if you can get a lower premium, but I doubt it will be substantial at this point.


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## Four Pillars (Apr 5, 2009)

KaeJS - You need to grow up. Literally!  

Young males have to pay more and that's just the way it is. 

Are you still living with the rents? Can you get onto their insurance?


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

financialnoob said:


> I'm amazed you even knew the name of the quoting engine at one point. Auto insurance quote software isn't exactly an interesting topic


I love actuaries, risk management, life tables, risk underwriting...


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## LondonHomes (Dec 29, 2010)

Insurance is one of those products that is very hard to compare apples to apples to figure out the best deal.

When you get your cheap insurance make sure you read your policy and know what is being covered that way there will be no surprises when it comes to making a claim. Cheap insurance can cost you a lot of money if you ever need it.

Personally I'm with State Farm, I know that they are not the cheapest but I have never had an issue with them when I needed to file a claim.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

Four Pillars said:


> KaeJS - You need to grow up. Literally!
> 
> Young males have to pay more and that's just the way it is.
> 
> Are you still living with the rents? Can you get onto their insurance?


Going under my parents is not an option, unfortunately.

So, I've called a few places.

It seems like the only place that beats Belair is Desjardins, and they barely beat it. They quoted me just under $350/month. I'm paying $361 with Belair.

I will probably just stay with Belair unless my premium increases at renewal (which it shouldnt).

I thank everyone for their suggestions and listings.


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## andrewf (Mar 1, 2010)

I got an absolutely outrageous quote from DGI (Desjardin). Can't say I have the impression that they are cheap. It makes sense, though, as they advertise _a lot_.


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

MoneyGal said:


> I love actuaries, risk management, life tables, risk underwriting...


lol well I think most here would agree that you're not exactly a typical person. And I mean that as the highest form of compliment 

royal: I believe the pay model for insurancehotline.com has gone by the wayside, but I could be wrong. 

LondonHomes: I'm not sure what product specifically you're talking about or what province, but auto insurance in Ontario is pretty standardized, as there's only one auto insurance policy. The types and amounts of coverage as well as deductibles are all pretty much the same, they just calculate differently depending on the company's rules on all the different rating criteria. Additional coverages are more or less the same, though they can differ a bit, but those are extras outside of the basic policy.

It's all regulated by the Financial Services Commission of Ontario. If you want to see the standardized policy, it's available on their site here:

http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/oap.asp


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## nathan79 (Feb 21, 2011)

Is Ontario really that expensive for insurance? I thought BC was expensive, but I've never heard of anyone paying that kind of coin. A basic policy here costs about $1400/yr without collision etc, and that's not including the claim-rated discount, which goes up to 40% after 8 years. I have the top discount so mine is just under $1000 per year. I have extended liability which brings the total to about $1100. I don't have collision but that was an extra $250 I think.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Ontario was always amongst the worst for auto insurance, and it got worse last year.
My auto insurance rates went up approx. 25% - 30% but coverage has been reduced as well.
Sometimes it feels that the insurance companies and the provincial govt./regulators have some sort of scam going.
Few years ago, I lived in the US for a brief period of time and had to change my car registration and insurance.
I was blown away by how cheap insurance was over there, _and with the same company too (State Farm)_.
I was essentially paying half the amount in the US than in Ontario.
And this wasn't the middle of Wyoming, either - it was one of the largest metropolis.


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## slacker (Mar 8, 2010)

Since this is a "money" forum, is there any industry experts who can shed light on why auto insurance in Ontario is so high? And is there an effective way of changing this?


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## financialnoob (Feb 26, 2011)

I don't want to be the guy who defends auto insurance in Ontario 

Disclaimer: I'm not a licensed insurance broker or insurance professional, but this is what I've picked up in discussions with industry professionals over the years.

But there are legit reasons for it. Ontario claims payouts are significantly higher than most provinces. The provincial government recently cut back on some of the maximum benefit levels, but the average Ontario claim payout jumped from $30K in 2005 to $53K in 2010. Meanwhile, Alberta's average claim cost under $4K. 

As for the why, well, it's never one person's fault. Toronto has an extremely high rate compared to everywhere else in the province, which brings up the average considerably. People in Windsor or Ottawa may not really have issues with their auto insurance. The insurance companies are also at fault. For years, they ignored rising medical/legal costs and just passed it onto consumers. In a governmment-run system, it would be in the government's best interest to keep those costs manageable.

But it's hard to look at just the policy prices and compare, as they're really apples to oranges. Each province has different types of coverages and benefits. Most comparisons also don't factor in tax dollars that go towards subsidizing insurance costs, one of those hidden costs.

Again, not defending Ontario's auto insurance industry. The Fraser Institute conducted a study and found that 3 of the 4 highest insurance provinces were government-run. While the Fraser Institute is a right-wing think tank and some may discredit their research, it's worth noting that #2 on the list (and the only private insurance province to make the top 4) was Ontario. That suggests that even the open market idealists consider Ontario's rates to be way out there.


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## Jungle (Feb 17, 2010)

At what point would you drop theft/vandalism (comprehensive) and collision coverage?


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## bpcrally (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm 23, drive a 2004 WRX, and pay $176 a month with good coverage.. You can do better!


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

Jungle said:


> At what point would you drop theft/vandalism (comprehensive) and collision coverage?


I tried to (this year).
However, if you ever rent a car and plan to use your insurance (instead of purchasing the agency's expensive insurance), then you need to have these coverages on your own policy.
I decided to keep it.
Compared to the overall, it seemed a small % anyway.
Grind your teeth and bear it.


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

When I drop collision it has always saved me the cost of replacement over a short period, like 2 or 3 years on a used car. It's not worth it when I drive long periods accident free and would have paid for the car 5 times instead of investing it. The cost of collision on my first bike was more for 1 year than I paid for it! Besides, when you make an at fault claim you'll pay for it over and over and over in premiums

All provinces and countries calculate insurance differently. In Canada, SK is the best and Ontario is the worst by far. Ontario is expensive because of the ridiculous level of coverage - things like caregivers and someone to look after your pets and who knows what - things that most people have friends and family to help with. If you want to pay for that coverage, all the power to you, but I think Ont ins companies have increased the standards and people just accept it. If you call 10 places and they're all expensive, well you pick one instead of disputing the coverage


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## Rob79 (Feb 16, 2011)

KaeJS said:


> Will call these guys tomorrow. Thanks, Jungle.


Yep, I second, TD Meloche, they are the cheapest and I have phoned around, I pay $135/month, for a 2008 Pilot and 2006 Tacoma. No one could come close.


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## the-royal-mail (Dec 11, 2009)

Although Harold makes an excellent point, I would drop the collision coverage after the car's value drops below what the insurance cost is for the year. Seems to happen for most cars after 10 yrs of age.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

bpcrally said:


> I'm 23, drive a 2004 WRX, and pay $176 a month with good coverage.. You can do better!


Pardon me. But, wtf?

Who are you insured with? My car is a 2003 Mazdaspeed Protege. Yours is worth more.


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## KaeJS (Sep 28, 2010)

the-royal-mail said:


> Although Harold makes an excellent point, I would drop the collision coverage after the car's value drops below what the insurance cost is for the year. Seems to happen for most cars after 10 yrs of age.


Just phoned and did this.

Dropped from $361 to $299.

Still a shtload of money if you ask me, just for $1M liability.

They are even offering $2M liability now.


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## HaroldCrump (Jun 10, 2009)

KaeJS said:


> Just phoned and did this.
> 
> Dropped from $361 to $299.
> 
> Still a shtload of money if you ask me, just for $1M liability.


In your case, it is most likely the age that's the biggest factor in that quote.
I'd gladly pay $299 in car insurance for a chance to be 23 again


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## m3s (Apr 3, 2010)

The Fraser Institute just lost all creditability with me. What are they paid by the private sector insurance to write that? It's blatantly one sided and laden with basic mistakes. Quebec's public auto insurance does not fully cover the mandatory insurance. Most Ontarians are fooled by the collaboration of private insurance into paying for more coverage, and the rest can't afford more than the mandatory ins bringing down the average. Public insurance would always be less efficient but the private sector has marketing working to deceive people for max profit. SK insurance was a pure dream, and they distribute the profits at the end of the year! I would argue they are more efficient in their repair and parts system, as it all goes through 1 agency.

You can't just compare average payments without looking at what affects the average. If you read Freakonomics, you'd see reports done lazily on stats are complete BS. That Fraser report is missing something. It reads like they already knew what they wanted to say, instead of actually investigating. I'm sure I could cherry pick some stats to prove my point as well.

Open market sucks in Canada because it's too small and consumers are too nice/lazy. Most other countries have dropped insurance brokers with the advent of the internet. Fraser institute should have compared to other countries as well.


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## MoneyGal (Apr 24, 2009)

The relatively small size of the Canadian insurance market has effects (price effects mostly) across all forms of insurance, not just car insurance.


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## Addy (Mar 12, 2010)

According to InsuranceHotline.com hubby and my rate annually for auto insurance is $692/yr. Thats without collision so I'm sure thats why it's a fair bit cheaper. Here in Manitoba we pay $1200/yr but that includes collision.


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